[00:00:31] <tomww> Solaris Express Community Edition
[00:00:38] <agliodbs> huh
[00:00:43] <agliodbs> where do I download that?
[00:00:50] <agliodbs> (not that I care until 76)
[00:00:55] <LuckyLuke> what happens in 76?
[00:01:08] <tomww> well, topic says http://get.opensolaris.org
[00:01:09] <agliodbs> pgAdmin, DBD::Pg
[00:01:22] <LuckyLuke> oh.
[00:01:36] <agliodbs> hey, we all have our little corners of the OS
[00:02:06] <LuckyLuke> they recently interviewed a sun eployee who works (nearly) fulltime on postgresql, on the FLOSS Weekly podcast
[00:02:21] <tomww> will pgAdmin be in 76? well it was looooooong time ago the ppl building the package said somtehing like "thanks, it wasn't on our list" as reply to poking them via a friendly email
[00:02:41] <tomww> LuckyLuke: URL?
[00:02:42] <LuckyLuke> http://www.twit.tv/floss18
[00:03:14] <LuckyLuke> well, 'recently' is july, but I have my backlog of podcasts to listen :)
[00:03:37] <Gman> that would be agliodbs :)
[00:03:47] <tomww> I didn't manage to get pgAdmin running queries error-free. always complained with "aborting" - seems to be a locale issue
[00:03:53] <agliodbs> LuckyLuke: yeah, I can't imagine who that could have been.
[00:04:14] <LuckyLuke> haha lol
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[00:04:25] <LuckyLuke> I didn't look past your nickname.
[00:04:28] <tomww> Hi Gman!
[00:04:39] <Gman> tomww, :)
[00:04:50] <agliodbs> tomww: how about sending a bug report in?
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[00:05:39] <LuckyLuke> agliodbs: well I'm not really a pgsql guy but I appreciated your interview while I was in Cape Verde relaxing at the beach. I took my iPod with me to catch up a little on my podcast backlog :)
[00:05:45] <tomww> well, I might be the type "rumble, I want to solf this on my own, ..."
[00:05:45] <agliodbs> tomww: the reason it took until 76 is that Solaris didn't have libxml2 or a current wxwidgets
[00:06:04] <agliodbs> LuckyLuke: thanks.  Most of the work was Leo & Randy though
[00:06:08] <agliodbs> I just talked
[00:06:24] <agliodbs> that podcast is the single most popular PR thing I've done
[00:06:27] <LuckyLuke> to be honest, I really didn't expect a sun employee could ever ask a question like "SXCE?" :)
[00:06:29] <agliodbs> like, 40,000 downloads
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[00:06:56] <agliodbs> LuckyLuke: there's too many acronyms on this job
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[00:07:14] <seanmcg> wxwidgets ?  76 is gonna have wxwidgets ?
[00:07:32] <Gman> agliodbs, libxml2 shouldn't have been the problem, wxwidgets, probably
[00:07:42] <tomww> it CONSTRAINTS on the VIEW you have on SELECTed topics... :-)
[00:07:45] <Gman> (though perhaps you were looking for a newer version?)
[00:08:08] <LuckyLuke> those guys do a great job. I also mean with tWiT and the others. And their podcasts are the one that sound best, others have crappy audio quality and for non english people that makes following the interview a lot more difficult.
[00:09:26] <agliodbs> Gman: remember we have to use the SFW gateway
[00:09:49] <agliodbs> so even though libxml2 went into build 66 or something, we couldn't *use* it
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[00:10:33] <tomww> I'Ll give pgAdmin3 another try on native S10x86 when 76 is out. till then i'll use pgAdmin in brandz for work
[00:11:20] <Gman> agliodbs, without signing a contract, sure, but you should have been ok to use it
[00:11:27] <Gman> nevermind, all's well that ends well :)
[00:11:54] <tomww> still would like to know, what pgAdmin3 made the locale thing aborting, but on brandz on the ame machine pgAdmin3 was running very fine
[00:12:34] <agliodbs> tomww: well, you need to send in a report, so that the folks who did the build (Dhanaraj) can check
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[00:13:54] <tomww> agliodbs: I'll file one. Would it make sense to do this before 76 is out? hmmm.
[00:14:10] <agliodbs> LuckyLuke: of course, the problem is that Leo only does one every 5 months
[00:14:21] <agliodbs> tomww: I suppose not
[00:14:36] <tomww> K
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[00:14:46] <agliodbs> tomww: what were you using, anyway?
[00:14:59] <agliodbs> the www.pgadmin.org binaries?
[00:15:59] <tomww> agliodbs: tried two: the  www.pgadmin.org ones and self compiles from the spec-files-extra SFE style, but not uploaded the spec-files since it didn't work well
[00:17:53] <tomww> the really wird thing /annoying is, that the brandz self compiled thing was running without any single issue, the soalris thing not even with a newly initialized locale-correct DB.
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[00:18:25] <agliodbs> tomww: hmmm
[00:18:30] <agliodbs> can you file a bug anyway?
[00:18:45] <agliodbs> if that binary isn't working, the team should know about it
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[00:18:55] <agliodbs> not sure where you should file though
[00:19:00] <agliodbs> maybe www.pgadmin.org
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[00:19:39] <tomww> or i use bugster or something or email :-)
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[00:20:10] <kjetilho> tomww: is there a difference between multibyte locales (e.g. UTF-8) and single byte ones (e.g. ISO 8859-1)?
[00:20:12] <tomww> tataaa laca is here, Hi laca
[00:20:27] <laca> hey tomww
[00:21:14] <laca> just barely here... i'm about to reboot to test the new slim_install bits (:
[00:21:40] <agliodbs> tomww: yeah, I'm just not sure where you file a bug for an OSS component which isn't supported yet
[00:27:11] <tomww> kjetilho: IIRC I tried pgadmin under locale C and UTF-8, and databases initialized with latin1(?) and UTF-8
[00:27:49] <seanmcg> umm, so DBD:pg is getting into snv_76, but is wxwidgets too ?
[00:28:12] <tomww> each time with pgadmin3 unter solaris it gave no query-results back, only "aborting". the brandz (CentOS) pgAdmin3 every time was fine
[00:29:54] <agliodbs> tomww: ok. like I said, e-mail it or file it
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[01:43:20] <lloy0076> Why is printing on any Unix or Linux always so stupidly difficult?
[01:43:22] * lloy0076 sigh
[01:43:51] <flyingparchment> use /usr/sadm/admin/bin/printmgr, it's easy
[01:44:22] <lloy0076> heh
[01:44:39] <lloy0076> I would except do you think they remembed to include the "import a random PPD file" in it?
[01:44:42] <lloy0076> No, that would be too easy.
[01:44:54] <flyingparchment> i thought it had that.  been a while since i used it though
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[01:44:58] <lloy0076> I can do it but I really don't see why I need to search google just to set printers up.
[01:45:23] <lloy0076> flyingparchment: To a certain extent this is one of my Unix pet peeves.
[01:45:24] <lloy0076> :P
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[01:53:21] <seanmcg> lloy0076: you may like this coming soon: Automatic discovery of network attached printers PSARC/2007/499
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[01:55:39] <kjetilho> lloy0076: use network attached printers, they work out of the box for me
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[01:56:19] <e^ipi> I turned my regular printer in to a network attached printer
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[01:56:41] <e^ipi> it worked out of the box on all the other machines
[01:57:00] <lloy0076> It still wants a printer make.
[01:57:15] <lloy0076> Oh, there is a generic one.
[01:59:19] <e^ipi> in other news, cheap solaris webhosting, who wants to rent my school newspaper some?
[02:00:20] <e^ipi> there used to be mod3, but they're gone now
[02:01:27] <movement> mod3 are gone? eek.
[02:02:02] <e^ipi> I'd go with joyent, but they start at $45/month
[02:02:10] <e^ipi> and a little university newspaper can't afford that
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[02:04:16] <e^ipi> speak of the devil
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[02:04:23] <e^ipi> that was weird
[02:07:16] <lloy0076> heh
[02:07:38] <lloy0076> Well, I managed to work out what its IP address is and it works fine.
[02:07:41] <lloy0076> I hate printers.
[02:07:48] <lloy0076> Why can't they just be detected and just work?
[02:07:59] <Gman> you need presto :)
[02:08:24] <movement> e^ipi: heh
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[02:12:15] <bda> e^ipi: You should see what happens when you say that name *three* times.
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[02:47:11] <boyd> Morning, all
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[02:48:23] <boyd> Ok, I may be clueless and coming to this late, but the packaging manual talks about the faspac utility but I don't see where it mentions where to find it.
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[02:50:48] <boyd> Wow, quiet in here
[02:53:18] <Chipdancer> boyd: yeah, jmcp is in Beijing
[02:53:28] <Chipdancer> I don't know what everybody else's excuses are
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[03:00:11] <e^ipi> dtrace is still unavailable in zones, correct?
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[03:06:49] <brendang> no, you can add a privilege to zones to allow dtrace, I believe (been a while since I created a zone)
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[03:07:13] <sommerfeld> however, doing that may well compromise security of the global zone..
[03:07:14] <nachox> there are no spanish man pages for solaris right?
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[03:07:45] <brendang> sommerfeld: yes, good point
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[03:10:04] <phoenix24> does SOLARIS 10 ship with "sudo" ?
[03:10:18] <flyingparchment> no, but it ships with RBAC, which is better
[03:10:23] <flyingparchment> (although it takes a while to learn)
[03:10:29] <flyingparchment> you can get sudo packages from www.sunfreeware.com
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[03:10:59] <e^ipi> RBAC is much better, and it's not /that/ hard to grok
[03:11:02] <phoenix24> Why have a sudo alrenative ?
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[03:11:20] <phoenix24> I meant, what makes RBAC better ?
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[03:11:38] <flyingparchment> it's more flexible and integrated with solaris, and covers more than just running commands
[03:11:40] <e^ipi> much, much more fine-grained; it's part of the OS and not a hackjob on top of it, etc
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[03:11:58] <phoenix24> hey _Megaf Megaf MegAFK
[03:12:40] <phoenix24> It seems every minor utility has been bloated into the kernel..
[03:12:50] <flyingparchment> huh?  rbac is nothing to do with the kernel
[03:12:57] <nachox> RBAC is not kernel bloat
[03:13:10] <auto359> hi, with sxde, if i open administration => network and there is no enthernet device there, does that mean the system didn't detect it or i need to add it?
[03:13:11] <nachox> it's all userspace
[03:13:14] <flyingparchment> trusted solaris is in the kernel, but that's something else entirely
[03:13:19] <flyingparchment> (more comparable to selinux)
[03:13:32] <auto359> ethernet*
[03:13:58] <phoenix24> nachox: thanks
[03:14:03] <nachox> auto359, you wont be able to configure the network that way if you use nwan
[03:14:59] <nachox> RBAC can even be configured to use LDAP to store  the policy iirc
[03:15:08] <auto359> nachox: i went into services and switched that off
[03:15:09] <flyingparchment> yes, but so can sudo :)
[03:15:28] <flyingparchment> although of course rbac uses the system ldap config while sudo requires its own configuration file
[03:15:45] <nachox> the only advantage sudo has over RBAC is that you can allow commands to run only if certain switchs are used
[03:16:56] <nachox> flyingparchment, i think sudo's config cannot be stored in LDAP, you need to hack something with scp
[03:17:04] <flyingparchment> nachox: it can, i use it here
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[03:17:20] <flyingparchment> objectclass sudoRole
[03:17:28] <jbk> evening
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[03:19:30] <_Megaf> hi phoenix24..
[03:19:46] <nachox> flyingparchment, that's cool, i didnt know sudo could do that, is it a new feature?
[03:20:04] <flyingparchment> nachox: i don't know.. i only needed it recently
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[03:22:35] <auto359> is there a master hardware app/daemon like hard drake from mandrake? i am trying to find all my hardware on sxde
[03:24:27] <nachox> hmm, no, not like harddrake
[03:25:56] <nachox> in fact i dont really know what harddrake does these days, it used to populate the modules.conf file i think
[03:26:05] <auto359> k, i am trying to see if sxde has "seen" my onboard NIC
[03:26:09] <Downix> You can remotely admin a solaris system, correct?
[03:26:10] <flyingparchment> hmm, there is one useful thing about sudo - when storing the config in ldap, you can restrict it by machine
[03:26:18] <flyingparchment> (maybe rbac can do that, but i didn't find an obvious way)
[03:26:31] * Downix hit an idea, just verifying it
[03:26:43] <flyingparchment> Downix: of course
[03:26:46] <nachox> auto359, what nic is it?
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[03:27:33] <auto359> er er, you got me ... realtek 8139to i think, trying to remember
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[03:28:47] <Downix> flyingparchment, I had a thought, rather than trying to get 1 server to run every site, buy a bunch of smaller ones and try and balance them
[03:29:12] <flyingparchment> Downix: why not get several smaller servers and run all sites on all of them?
[03:29:19] <flyingparchment> that seems like the least wasteful way to distribute resources
[03:29:51] <Downix> flyingparchment, Not sure how to do that, honestly.  this is far beyond how I've worked
[03:30:01] <nachox> i think that nic uses the rtls driver, that card should be supported
[03:30:10] <auto359> the cmd "network-admin" gets me the popup "network settings" box with no entries in the 'connections' tab, should this be empty on a brand new install?
[03:30:33] <flyingparchment> Downix: make sure all sites are configured on all the servers, then just load balance requests to all of them
[03:31:06] <Downix> flyingparchment, Would need a load balancer machine then, but ok
[03:31:26] <flyingparchment> Downix: old P4 running linux with lvs will do tens of thousands of requests/sec
[03:31:39] <Downix> have a stack of those a mile high
[03:31:43] <flyingparchment> (sadly, there's nothing like lvs for solaris yet)
[03:32:14] <nachox> check in prtconf -D whether something attached to your card or not
[03:32:27] <nachox> flyingparchment, lvs?
[03:32:34] <Downix> Hmmmm
[03:32:37] <flyingparchment> nachox: in-kernel load balancer
[03:32:48] <flyingparchment> nachox: receives tcp/udp traffic and distributes it to servers
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[03:33:01] <flyingparchment> it's very, very fast compared to doing it in userland
[03:33:30] <nachox> sounds usefull
[03:34:07] <Downix> it is
[03:34:12] <Downix> I've seen it in action before
[03:34:29] <Downix> flyingparchment, I'd need a heavy duty database server on the back-end for the sites
[03:34:39] <flyingparchment> Downix: yes
[03:34:40] <Downix> which I already have without realizing it
[03:34:47] <Downix> the Dell Xeon would be perfect for it
[03:34:48] <flyingparchment> Downix: or several :)
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[03:40:17] <auto359> watching the Sun "blackbox Data Centre" screencast ... now thats cool!
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[03:40:58] <nachox> it's funny that google patented that :P
[03:41:33] <auto359> indeed, getting ready for google's darl fibre takeover?
[03:41:37] <auto359> dark*
[03:41:39] <Downix> flyingparchment, Ok, this is perfect, plus we can add servers as our load increases
[03:42:09] <flyingparchment> Downix: do you want to pay my normal consultancy rates or shall we draw up a contract?
[03:43:00] <nachox> flyingparchment, you arrange the contract first and then help...
[03:43:11] <flyingparchment> shit.  i knew i forgot something
[03:43:14] <Downix> *laughs*
[03:43:33] <Downix> Hey, I'd split my profits but then you'd be in the hole
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[03:57:28] <_Megaf> yes, ipv6 now
[03:57:31] <_Megaf> lol
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[04:09:07] <jbk> hey jmcp
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[04:11:54] <jmcp_> gday gday
[04:12:00] <jmcp_> moving hotels today
[04:12:38] <jbk> still in china then i take it..
[04:12:46] <auto359> nachox: seems my onboard 10/100LAN is a weird realtek version, will install a PCI realtek NIC and see what comes
[04:13:19] <jmcp_> jbk: yup, until end of next week
[04:14:05] <jbk> ahh.. long trip (well it would be for me at least)
[04:14:06] <jmcp_> auto359: rtls not working for you?
[04:14:18] <jmcp_> jbk: longest work trip I've done was 5 weeks
[04:14:25] <jbk> ack :(
[04:14:26] <jmcp_> 2 weeks is just long enough, mostly
[04:14:34] <jmcp_> the 5 week one was a conference + month rotation
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[04:16:12] <jbk> though i know one guy in sunps that spent like 3 months in montana
[04:16:25] <auto359> jmcp_: hi j, nice to see you keeping busy over there, it doesn't look like the system can see the onboard lan, "ifconfig hme0" should show if i have a nic recognised?
[04:16:44] <jbk> though he was home every weekend (though flying montana->ny would probably almost take a day with connections and such)
[04:16:57] <jbk> auto359: try 'dladm show-dev'
[04:17:12] <jbk> hme0 is a different chip
[04:17:34] <jbk> (happy meal -- found on older sparcs mostly)
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[04:19:53] <auto359> jbk: ahhh
[04:20:32] <auto359> jbk: nil output
[04:20:49] <jbk> that command (or dladm show-link iirc) should show what interfaces are currently recognized
[04:21:22] <auto359> yes, looking through dladm --help now
[04:21:43] <auto359> show-link: nil output also
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[04:22:55] <jbk> then it likely doesn't recognized your card..
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[04:25:18] <auto359> just reading the HCL ... seems the previous gen of realtek 10/100 pci nics that use the rtl8139 module are supported, i have 5 of those cards in my shed, will stick one in and try again, i knoew that sxde on x86 might be "tricky"
[04:25:29] <auto359> i knew*
[04:26:15] <jbk> well it seems realtek support has been an ongoing issue, though i do not know the cause
[04:26:22] <jbk> i've had pretty good success hw wise
[04:26:24] <jmcp_> auto359: you might need to go for Murayama's rh driver
[04:26:30] * jmcp_ looks for the url
[04:26:50] <jmcp_> http://blogs.sun.com/jmcp/entry/how_do_i_find_out
[04:27:15] <jmcp_> auto359: we name ethernet interfaces based on the chip/driver that a particular bunch of silicon requires
[04:28:02] <jbk> though soon (hopefully)... vanity naming!
[04:28:10] <jmcp_> so you'll see "hme" on ultra5/10/60/80, "eri" on some of the netras, "ce" (aka Cassini) on some plugin cards and on other netras....
[04:28:16] <jmcp_> eri == Ethernet Rio Interface
[04:28:28] <jmcp_> hme == Happy Meal Ethernet
[04:28:30] <jmcp_> no, I'm not kidding
[04:28:37] <jmcp_> there was a bme, too - Big Mac Ethernet
[04:28:39] <jmcp_> :-)
[04:28:48] <jbk> then there were the pci ? chips
[04:28:59] <jbk> loved those names too :)
[04:29:08] <jmcp_> oh, like the nexus in the e450?
[04:29:11] <jmcp_> schizo :-)
[04:29:20] <jbk> wasn't there a psycho as well?
[04:29:23] <nachox> jalapenho? i think that was a sparc proc right?
[04:29:24] <jmcp_> yeah
[04:29:27] <jmcp_> yeah
[04:29:32] <jmcp_> us-IIIi, I think
[04:29:43] <jbk> yeah.. there was a whole southwestern theme
[04:29:48] <jbk> jalapeno, chalupa
[04:29:49] <jbk> etc.
[04:30:01] <jbk> that or someone just loved taco bell :)
[04:30:01] <jmcp_> I was sure there was going to be a "postal" to follow on from schizo
[04:30:04] <jmcp_> :)
[04:30:15] <jmcp_> I thought they were just names of chillis
[04:30:34] <jbk> i can't remember the others..
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[04:31:11] <jbk> and now i'm completely out of the loop
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[04:31:59] <elektronkind> there's also Cheerio, a PCI bridge
[04:32:20] <elektronkind> Gem was a gig-e nic
[04:32:41] <auto359> i remember the wierd names from when i would trim my gentoo kernels down to minimlist, all the wacky names
[04:33:01] * jmcp_ shudders @ gentoo
[04:33:43] <auto359> jmcp_: can you paste that link again pls, i am using terminal in mac and can't seem to scroll up in my irssi
[04:33:48] <nachox> i should go back in time and stab drobins to death
[04:33:49] <elektronkind> here's a probably incomplete list of names: http://wikis.sun.com/display/FOSSdocs/Home
[04:34:12] <elektronkind> http://blogs.sun.com/jmcp/entry/how_do_i_find_out
[04:34:13] <jmcp_> http://blogs.sun.com/jmcp/entry/how_do_i_find_out
[04:34:18] <auto359> haha, what's so bad with it, portage as a pack man system is great
[04:34:24] <auto359> jmcp_: thanks
[04:34:42] <auto359> elektronkind: thanks
[04:34:51] <nachox> no, it is not great, it is actually a mantainance hazzard
[04:35:00] <jmcp_> auto359: I don't like the gentoo philosophy, which gets in the way making it possible for a corp to provide support
[04:35:23] <jmcp_> "ooh, I can turn off stack frames on x86 and that'll make my uber-133t3 driver go faster'
[04:35:37] <jmcp_> "yeah, we I can't support that because if you have a crash I can't work out wtf happened you numbskull"
[04:35:38] <jmcp_> etc etc
[04:35:43] <jmcp_> and then it just degenerates
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[04:35:50] <jbk> like anyone uses crash dumps on linux :)
[04:35:57] <nachox> haha
[04:36:03] <elektronkind> linux has crash dumps?
[04:36:04] <auto359> well when DR left it went real flakey, was all sorts of crap in portage
[04:36:11] <elektronkind> like, usable crash dumps?
[04:36:18] <jbk> didn't you hear, high lord torvalds decreed that printk is the one true way
[04:36:19] <jbk> :)
[04:36:30] <elektronkind> are are you still just stuck with "oops" kernel blurts to the console?
[04:36:41] <auto359> you unix guys ... 8-)
[04:36:47] <jbk> well redhat at least patches their stuff to do dumps
[04:36:52] <jmcp_> jbk: heck, even a bloody stack trace would be handy, but if you get gcc to ignore stack frames, you can't get one that means anything
[04:37:00] <jmcp_> auto359: yeah man, we're hardcore
[04:37:06] <jbk> though i think you need at least rhel4u4 to do dumps to disk vs. the severely restricted netdump
[04:37:23] <jbk> no clue how usable they are
[04:37:32] <auto359> jmcp_: nice to hear, when i grow up i want to be like that too
[04:37:35] <elektronkind> I bet RH would be out of business if they didn't have dumps to debug
[04:37:52] <jmcp_> auto359: heh
[04:37:57] <jbk> i'm still trying to figure out why people pay them money
[04:38:20] <auto359> haven't you heard? they offer *real* cough support ...
[04:38:44] <jbk> yeah, i'd love to tell you about that sometime :)
[04:38:55] <elektronkind> because low-fruit CIOs still think (unquantifiably) that Linux is the OS of the future, the eventual non-Windows singularity
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[04:39:36] <jbk> elektronkind: yes, it's fashion, and it's what's fashionable at the moment
[04:39:41] <elektronkind> of course, none of them wouldn't know vmlinuz if it sat on their lap and kissed them on the nose
[04:39:47] <elektronkind> s/if/is
[04:40:17] <elektronkind> erm nm. fatigue
[04:40:50] <elektronkind> it's one of the main reasons why I'm leaving my current job
[04:40:53] <jmcp_> "oooh, we can save All This Money on OS licenses if we use linux....... and then spend it on Oracle licenses instead. That's sooo much better"
[04:40:58] <nachox> elektronkind, linux?
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[04:41:03] <jbk> heh
[04:41:10] <elektronkind> CIO told me point-blank in a meeting last week that "sun and solaris have no future"
[04:41:19] * jmcp_ rotfl
[04:41:43] <elektronkind> this is just prior to him inking a deal with IBM for a POWER6 system and a 32 node Linux HPC
[04:41:56] <jbk> jmcp_: my answer to that when oracle tries that line is 'where is the rac cluster of linux boxes running oracle's internal erp system?'
[04:42:12] <jmcp_> good comeback
[04:42:19] <elektronkind> so that, amongst other things, has me entertaining a job that is pure solaris, needs a big SAN, and will double my pay.
[04:42:29] <jbk> 'oh wait, the _new_ system was implemented on solaris?'
[04:42:43] <jmcp_> clustered, using SunCluster :-)
[04:42:48] <jbk> at my last employer
[04:42:56] <jbk> mgmt bought oracle's line
[04:43:06] <jbk> they all flew down to austin and saw their datacenter
[04:43:12] <elektronkind> yeah, the IBM sales dweebs, when in talks with him about buying a P6 570 for a oracle DB server said that the T2000 is a poor choice due to the weak floating point
[04:43:26] <jmcp_> elektronkind: stop it, you're killing me!
[04:43:30] <jbk> and decided to throw out everything and replace it with linux...
[04:43:36] <jbk> 2 years later
[04:43:45] <jbk> solaris was the standard, everything else required an exception
[04:43:46] <elektronkind> of course he's too silly to ask the question "what does fp have to do with oracle databases"
[04:43:59] <jbk> yeah, ibm's good at talking out of both sides of their mouth
[04:44:06] <jbk> i remember one presentation they did
[04:44:18] <jbk> in one slide, knocking sun & hp for using AMDs
[04:44:25] <elektronkind> it was painfully obvious to me that the IBM sales people were reading off a script from marketting
[04:44:26] <jbk> then in the next slide knocking dell for not using AMD
[04:44:29] <nachox> that only probes engineering stuff never reaches management jobs :)
[04:44:30] <jbk> (this was a few years ago)
[04:45:03] <jbk> elektronkind: the trick is, if the guy isn't an idiot, go 'well we can try it for 60 days, what do we have to lose?'
[04:45:22] <jbk> worst case, you make IBM give you a p6 570 for the cost of a t2000 :)
[04:45:28] <jbk> if he's still dead set on IBM
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[04:45:53] <nachox> *staff
[04:46:17] <jbk> but yeah, at my last job as well, that was their reason for not using the t2000... my argument was 'show me any app we are running today that uses floating point'
[04:46:38] <elektronkind> jbk: well, we've tried that and thre's hitch (for us) since we're a state institution... the 60 try n buy contract from Sun stipulates that its provisions are goverened under CA state law. Getting one state to agree to a contract that's in the domain of another state is like getting a cat and a gerbil to play nice
[04:46:43] <jbk> 'bbbut then we'd have *4* types of servers, if we have more than *3*, the world will implode'
[04:47:09] <jbk> meanwhile, their competitors were buying them (as one person described) 'like they were PCs'
[04:47:42] <jbk> of course while the rest of the industry is growing, they are now sinking like the titanic
[04:48:06] <elektronkind> yeah, we ran all the standard tech arguments past him. he was convinced otherwise in his own way though.
[04:48:07] <nachox> jbk, who is sinking like the titanic?
[04:48:40] <jbk> elektronkind: ahh one of those CIOs.. yeah, probably better to get out if he's not going to be replaced any time soon..
[04:48:46] <jbk> nachox: my previous employer
[04:48:57] <nachox> can you tell who it is?
[04:49:46] <jbk> nachox: are you in the US?
[04:49:59] <nachox> nope, Argentina
[04:50:07] <jbk> then i doubt you've heard of them
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[04:54:47] <jbk> evening stevel
[04:54:59] <stevel> hey there jbk
[04:55:08] <elektronkind> jbk: I guess we can call those types "eWeek Managers"
[05:00:58] <jbk> yeah
[05:01:25] <jbk> i did a side consulting gig a year or so ago with the same deal..
[05:02:10] <jbk> the CIO was a former project manager (amusingly at my old employer) and decided they needed to consolidate everything they had down to one POWER5 box
[05:02:53] <jbk> even though they could have replaced what they had with maybe $10k worth of new hardware (small shop) (part of the reason was they were still using E3500s and such, so maint. costs were getting excessive)
[05:03:16] <jbk> thankfully i was just there to install a raid array
[05:03:29] <jbk> (having read the documentation the day before :P)
[05:03:31] <elektronkind> and IBM POWER hardware costs aren't excessive just by themselves?
[05:04:10] <jbk> but you'll consolidate! that magically makes everything better! who needs numbers? :)
[05:04:13] <jbk> but yeah
[05:04:21] <elektronkind> someone drank the LPAR kool aid
[05:04:25] <jbk> they would have spent a lot more to do what the CIO wanted
[05:04:32] <jbk> than to just keep the as/400
[05:04:43] <jbk> and replace their old sun boxes with something newer (and smaller)
[05:04:46] <elektronkind> LPAR, where one needs a stinkin windows box to boot your POWER system
[05:05:00] <jbk> don't forget the excessive overhead :)
[05:05:58] <nachox> now they have WPARS :)
[05:07:09] <jbk> i'm still wondering when they're going to come out with a blatant rip off of zfs
[05:07:17] <elektronkind> we have two p670s (POWER4+ based) each with 3 LPARs configured. due to electrical work, we had to power them down. When it was time to come back up, they wouldn't. The Windows PC that manages and boots their LPARs had a bad CDROM drive, preventing the Windows-running manager from booting and this not bringing the LPARs up
[05:07:20] <jbk> since it seems all they're doing now is copying features in solaris :)
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[05:08:44] <nachox> i'll laugh to death the day solaris is ported to the latest power and crushes aix performancewise
[05:10:05] <jmcp_> nachox: so is a WPAR pronounced "whopper" ?
[05:10:49] <nachox> i'm not ibm marketing, i wouldnt know, i was only offered a job at ibm supporting... solaris
[05:11:31] <jmcp_> :)
[05:11:45] <jmcp_> that's a big money-spinner for IBM
[05:12:25] <nachox> i only wish sun had some openings here in argentina...
[05:12:40] <jbk> heh
[05:13:32] <jbk> i don't know that they're doing a lot of hiring in general..
[05:13:53] <nachox> i mean, come on, both ibm and eds approached me to deal with solaris support and i cannot see any job offers from sun anywhere
[05:14:14] <jbk> well ibm and eds both have very different philosophies
[05:14:21] <jbk> they want to take over your IT completely
[05:14:32] <jbk> and then nickel and dime you to death?
[05:14:37] <jbk> err -?
[05:14:41] <nrubsig> Is dmarker around ?
[05:15:05] <jbk> sun ps is more of a 'come in for a specific project or task, then leave'
[05:15:10] <jbk> from what i've seen
[05:16:14] <nachox> i'm not sure about that, aparently the deal here was that eds was doing support on behalf of sun
[05:16:29] <jbk> what type of support?
[05:16:43] <jbk> sun already contracts out a lot of their field stuff
[05:16:55] <jbk> typically the guy coming to your datacenter to replace a part is not a sun employee
[05:16:56] <nachox> i mean, my last eds interview would have been with a sun representative from the us had i accepted
[05:17:19] <nachox> not sure, i think it is first level support
[05:17:42] <elektronkind> oh god IBM, what a turd
[05:17:51] <elektronkind> get a load of this guys
[05:17:52] <elektronkind> http://www-941.ibm.com/collaboration/wiki/display/WikiPtype/Probevue
[05:18:07] <elektronkind> look at the code examples and tell me what language that looks like
[05:18:46] <e^ipi> it's /almost/ D
[05:18:53] * jmcp_ wonders where the surprise went off to
[05:18:58] <nachox> the vue scripts look like d
[05:19:00] <e^ipi> different enough to be incompatible
[05:19:05] <elektronkind> yep
[05:19:14] <jbk> yes, it looks like a blatant dtrace ripoff
[05:19:15] <bda> ha!
[05:19:32] <steleman> .NET is *not* a Java rip-off. No, Sir-ree.
[05:19:34] <e^ipi> vue <-> dtrace converter script should be trival though
[05:19:43] <jbk> which actually, it'd be amusing for sun to go 'see, look how great it is, even IBM couldn't come up with anything original and had to copy it from us instead'
[05:19:55] <bda> Why not just *use* Dtrace? :\
[05:20:06] <nachox> NIH syndrome
[05:20:09] <bda> meh.
[05:20:16] <elektronkind> hah wow, it's like D but even lamer. I looks like you have to define the functions you're tracing (see the second example with the read() call)
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[05:20:31] <steleman> for the same reasons MS copied Java and renamed it .NET.
[05:20:39] <Tempt> [13:04] <elektronkind> LPAR, where one needs a stinkin windows box to boot your POWER system
[05:20:50] <Tempt> elektronkind: To be far, it could also be a loonix box.
[05:20:55] <Tempt> s/far/fair/
[05:21:32] <steleman> admittedly, imitation is the highest form of flattery.
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[05:22:09] <jbk> well it seems like aix 6 is nothing but 'reimplementing all the stuff in solaris 10 in aix'
[05:22:10] <Tempt> Well, frankly, I think any and all innovation, improvement or general forward movement in the UNIX world is a good thing.
[05:22:30] <jbk> hence why i'm waiting for their zfs knockoff
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[05:22:36] <Tempt> and IBM are doing a good job of rolling loonix customers onto AIX, which is good for the industry.
[05:23:41] <Tempt> and from a career perspective, every man and his dog have done Solaris these days, but having a head-start on AIX 6 would be a marketable skill.
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[05:24:51] <nachox> the only problem is that the hardware to run that aix and it's license are not cheap for the casualadmin
[05:24:59] <Tempt> True.
[05:25:10] <jbk> i'd rather do hp-ux than aix
[05:25:16] <Tempt> Which keeps skilled professionals rare and salaries pleasant
[05:25:31] <nachox> indeed
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[05:25:54] * e^ipi hugs his 44p
[05:26:11] <nachox> i have yet to see an hp-ux running
[05:26:18] <Tempt> It doesn't run.
[05:26:20] <Tempt> It staggers
[05:26:23] <jbk> :)
[05:26:28] <jbk> but at least it feels like unix
[05:26:37] <jbk> if somewhat klunky
[05:26:43] <e^ipi> nachox: you can get a free account on HP's testdrive servers
[05:26:46] <e^ipi> not as root though
[05:26:50] <jamesd_> my u20 runs much better now with 4GB of ram and dual core  opteron power ugg.. uggg
[05:27:41] <nachox> jbk, if only solaris had smitty...
[05:27:44] * nachox hides
[05:28:09] <jamesd_> who needs smitty our solaris has wesolows
[05:28:36] <nachox> it solves your problems and makes you feel like hell in the same day
[05:29:17] <jamesd_> that oretty much describes wesolows
[05:29:31] <jamesd_> ;-p
[05:29:40] <nachox> we need the wesolowsfacts.com
[05:30:38] <stevel> nachox: funny. that describes alcohol pretty well too
[05:30:41] <stevel> plus it makes you feel like hell the day after
[05:31:29] <nachox> alcohol doesnt solve your problems, stop drinking stevel, we know you miss sun, but you decided to leave :P
[05:31:54] <stevel> i'll drink if i damn well please ;-)
[05:32:20] <jbk> heh
[05:32:37] <jbk> yet you missed the open bar at the summit :)
[05:32:49] <stevel> not my fault- i was in hawaii
[05:32:58] <stevel> i fully intend on making up for it at the next summit
[05:33:08] <jbk> excuses, excuses :)
[05:33:09] <jbk> j/k
[05:33:33] <stevel> besides. open bar is wasted on me
[05:33:40] * stevel is a cheap drunk
[05:33:51] <jmcp_> you're a cadbury?
[05:33:54] <jbk> next time, measure your momentum very precisely, that way you can be in both locations :)
[05:34:03] <stevel> jmcp_: bingo :)
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[05:34:20] <jmcp_> :)
[05:34:51] * jmcp_ discovers 6265974 (http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6265974)
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[05:35:23] <jbk> i can put away the booze when i want
[05:35:43] <nachox> jmcp_, :)
[05:35:44] <jbk> jmcp_: haha yeah, i remember seeing that in the zfs beta and laughing
[05:35:49] <tsp> slightly OT, but worth a shot: Anyone know how to get to the uadmin blog's archives besides hitting the last link on previous posts, checking previous posts for X more posts and repeating?
[05:36:43] <jbk> i think some beta customers complained :(
[05:36:47] <nachox> i thought sun employees were not allowed to code easter eggs
[05:37:00] <jbk> then explain pkill -V :)
[05:37:08] <nachox> that is a feature
[05:37:15] <nachox> i dont know why it is not documented
[05:37:26] <nachox> administrators WANT to kill vold
[05:40:33] <jbk> i guess they're restricted to amusing bug summaries
[05:40:54] <jmcp_> you better believe it
[05:41:09] <jmcp_> sometimes there's a heap of work that goes into getting that bug synopsis "just right"
[05:41:14] <jbk> hehe
[05:42:10] <jamesd_> tsp.. google knows all and will share if you ask the right question.. much more useful than searching through over 1000 articles, some were total crap  i know i wrote them all
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[05:42:30] <nachox> meh
[05:42:43] <nachox> stevel was too drunk to keep talking
[05:42:48] <jbk> haha
[05:43:09] <tsp> jamesd_: heh, I'm at like 2005 or 2006 by now, reading through the ringworks tech support jokes - lots of interesting links, some of them just hard to find
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[06:02:26] <FunkyELF> http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6332924
[06:02:37] <FunkyELF> if the "fixed in" field is blank does that mean its not fixed yet?
[06:02:55] <FunkyELF> I think it has been like this forever.  Commit to Fix is at snv_70
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[06:04:08] <elektronkind> emial darrenm and find out :)
[06:04:23] <elektronkind> ok, bed time. I can't even spell "email" right
[06:04:30] * elektronkind &
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[06:16:52] * Tempt just finished unloading an 880
[06:16:57] <Tempt> another one for the family.
[06:19:47] <auto359> configuring network (sxde), new pci_nic installed, pci_nic recognised, confirmed by 'scanpci' admin => network shows "Ethernet connection, the interface rtls0 is not active", attempt to ativate, get error "could not enable the interface rtls0", what is the deal here?
[06:23:48] <jbk> does dladm show-dev show it?
[06:24:28] <auto359> yes, but only shows rtls0 all variables: unknown
[06:24:49] <jbk> ok, what does 'ifconfig rtls0 plumb' do?
[06:25:35] <auto359> nil output that cmd
[06:26:05] <jbk> ok, are you using dhcp, or static ip?
[06:26:12] <auto359> static
[06:26:34] <jbk>  a /24 ?
[06:26:43] <auto359> yes
[06:26:54] <auto359> a c class private 192.168.100.xxx
[06:27:24] <jbk> ok.. ifconfig rtls0 129.168.100.xxx netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast 192.160.100.255 up
[06:27:33] <jbk> (substitue xxx for the last octet of course)
[06:27:47] <jbk> then is 192.168.100.1 your default gateway?
[06:28:26] <auto359> so exactly the same as per ifconfig linux, no that is 192.168.100.10, route add default gw 192.168.100.10 ?
[06:28:39] <jbk> almost
[06:28:44] <jbk> leave out 'gw'
[06:28:55] <auto359> ah k
[06:31:50] <jbk> any luck?
[06:33:55] <auto359> yes, seems so
[06:34:12] <auto359> the interface rtls0 is active, i'll open FF and see
[06:34:37] <jbk> well if you haven't setup dns
[06:34:40] <auto359> ah, can't seem to add nameservers to network panel,
[06:34:47] <auto359> haha, exactly
[06:34:47] <jbk> just edit /etc/resolv.conf
[06:34:58] <jbk> err
[06:35:08] <jbk> and probably need to cp /etc/nsswitch.dns /etc/nsswitch.conf
[06:35:15] <jbk> (or just edit it directly)
[06:35:18] <auto359> k, cheers, in /etc now
[06:35:36] <auto359> eek! vi!
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[06:39:49] <auto359> is there any other editor in solaris besides vi, i can't get out of command mode, this terminal is fuxroed
[06:39:56] <auto359> fuxored* even
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[06:41:32] <jbk> hehe
[06:42:01] <jbk> well exit, echo $TERM, if not vt100 or xterm or such, set it, then rerun vi
[06:42:18] <jbk> just be aware you actually have to use i/a to get into insert/append mode, and esacpe to get back to command mode
[06:42:42] <auto359> k, i'll do that first then
[06:43:33] <flyingparchment> "pgmodule.c", line 861: warning: syntax error:  empty declaration
[06:43:40] <flyingparchment> syntax error is a warning now? :)
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[06:53:30] <auto359> jbk: thanks, net is up, wonder why the network gui won't play nicely?
[06:53:37] <jbk> no idea
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[07:01:16] <RealWickedWicky> morning
[07:01:23] <jbk> night..
[07:03:27] <RealWickedWicky> that too
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[07:22:23] <nrubsig> http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20071010/i/r1254972637.jpg?x=380&y=284&sig=Pgr8d0a_ul4UORyINcg7uw--
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[07:31:35] <hehaw> hay t-1
[07:32:04] <T-1> hyphy
[07:32:14] <hehaw> go dumb
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[07:32:44] <e^ipi> I wonder if it's worth my while to bother learning ruby
[07:32:58] <hehaw> i think so
[07:33:05] <oninoshiko> do you have someone planning on paying you do do somthing in it?
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[07:33:24] <e^ipi> oninoshiko: i have someone willing to pay me to set up a webserver & write some backend code
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[07:33:41] <oninoshiko> do they require it in ruby?
[07:33:42] <e^ipi> the language is my choice
[07:33:58] <flyingparchment> don't do a real project in a language you don't even know yet
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[07:34:07] <flyingparchment> you'll probably fuck up the first time and have to rewrite the whole thing
[07:34:24] <e^ipi> flyingparchment: I know java. I don't know J2EE
[07:34:31] <cmihai> Ruby, Scheme, Python, Perl, it's all good. Just pick one and learn the damn thing.
[07:34:31] <oninoshiko> ahh... then its probably more effort then its worth... use a language you already know
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[07:34:42] <flyingparchment> e^ipi: you don't actually need much J2EE to write decent webapps
[07:34:57] <e^ipi> any way i swing it I'm going to have to learn web frameworks, because I've not used any of them to any real extent
[07:35:00] <e^ipi> because web work bores me
[07:35:08] <e^ipi> but ultimately I need to eat & pay rent
[07:35:35] <e^ipi> flyingparchment: your ideas intrigue me and i wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
[07:35:39] <oninoshiko> eating and rent are Good Things (tm)
[07:35:42] <cmihai> Java seems to be paying better than the others...
[07:35:55] <flyingparchment> i guess ASP C#.NET 2007 is the new thing
[07:36:03] <cmihai> low end PHP / MySQL work seems like prostitution to me :P. Pays a lot worse too.
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[07:36:14] <e^ipi> I've tried messing with swing/spring/etc before and the most complex i've managed to get is a non-persistent 'hello world' app
[07:36:51] <flyingparchment> e^ipi: check out webwork, it's pretty easy to learn
[07:37:29] * flyingparchment need to look at java server faces some day.. apparently a J2EE-standard MVC framework or something
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[07:38:11] * oninoshiko has a distaste for .net and asp, because most people using them wouldn't know proper, compliant output if it bit them in the tush
[07:38:45] <oninoshiko> which, i know, isn't the fault of the languages... but... it makes me "grr"
[07:38:45] <auto359> flyingparchment: what language is webwork?
[07:38:56] <flyingparchment> Load Average 5 Minutes: LOW: 10.6  AVG: 54.6  PEAK:  238.7
[07:39:00] <flyingparchment> ... guess i need more of something there
[07:39:03] <flyingparchment> auto359: java
[07:39:23] <e^ipi> most of my experience with j2ee consists of " why the hell am i editing xml files instead of writing code, this is ridiculous "
[07:39:23] <auto359> flyingparchment: available where?
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[07:39:35] <flyingparchment> auto359: google.. i don't remember the url off hand
[07:39:46] <auto359> ah k, thought it might be yours
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[07:39:52] <e^ipi> auto359: available on google... jesus that's laziness
[07:39:57] <LeftWing> e^ipi: Ideally a lot of the declarative stuff ought to be handled by an IDE.
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[07:40:35] <e^ipi> then I'd have to learn how to use the IDE's property editors , which is just as bad as hacking xml
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[07:40:58] <oninoshiko> noone needs an IDE beyond Vim
[07:41:03] <flyingparchment> you need an ide with a proper xml editor :)
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[07:41:12] <flyingparchment> (dtd-based autocomplete ftw)
[07:41:14] <e^ipi> oninoshiko: i concur
[07:41:18] <cmihai> oninoshiko, that's a very narrow view.
[07:41:23] <flyingparchment> oninoshiko: who wants to edit java and xml in vim?
[07:41:24] <LeftWing> Narrow indeed.
[07:41:28] <flyingparchment> i use vim for everything except that
[07:41:29] <cmihai> With Java, there are a lot of CASE tools and such.
[07:41:38] * oninoshiko has written java in Vim
[07:41:45] <flyingparchment> so have i, but i don't enjoy it
[07:41:46] <WickedWicky> who wants to program in Javva anyway
[07:41:53] * jmcp_ feels left out
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[07:42:01] <cmihai> Code Generation, Reverse Engineering, Code Refactoring Tools, lots of other CASE tools, integrated debuggers and such...
[07:42:02] <WickedWicky> awwww, don't be like that jcea
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[07:42:08] <cmihai> You just don't do that junk with vim
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[07:42:21] * oninoshiko enjoyed is no less then writing java in a 'proper' IDE
[07:42:22] <e^ipi> cmihai: like god intended
[07:42:43] <LeftWing> If you want to edit the code with vim, then you can always do that, but the IDE provides more than just a text editor.
[07:42:50] <jmcp_> WickedWicky: none of  these whizzbang IDEs properly cater for people who code in C
[07:43:06] <auto359> what package manager would you suggest for sxde?
[07:43:20] <e^ipi> auto359: blastwave works alright
[07:43:26] <auto359> k
[07:43:47] <cmihai> Personally I like Oracle JDeveloper, but IBM's Eclipse or eclipse based stuff like Borland JBuilder or the Sun stuff like NetBeans, Java Studio Creator and such have plenty of tools beyond a simple text editor.
[07:43:51] <jmcp_> auto359: there's an existing package manager, but it's not what you're used to :-)
[07:43:57] <e^ipi> jmcp_: i usually end up with IDE's doing stupid things to me & my code and having to fight them for control
[07:44:02] <flyingparchment> IDEA's nice (for java), costs money though
[07:44:03] <jmcp_> cmihai: mate of mine in Brisbane directs a team working on bits of JDeveloper
[07:44:04] <cmihai> C is another story...
[07:44:05] <WickedWicky> jmcp_ but you're l to the e to the e to the t, you hack your way trough the code in ed or even gpad if you have to
[07:44:09] <auto359> jmcp_: that was my next question, what is the default one?
[07:44:17] <e^ipi> so vim, or some other plain text editor with syntax highlighting is just fine by me
[07:44:17] <cmihai> but C++, Java and other object oriented programming languages really do benefit from such CATE tools.
[07:44:20] <jmcp_> e^ipi: yeah .... "no, I want an 8-space TAB there you stupid thing!"
[07:44:22] <jmcp_> etc etc
[07:44:27] <jmcp_> auto359: man pkgadd :-)
[07:44:33] <auto359> k, cheers
[07:44:48] <cmihai> e^ipi, right. And how many object oriented languages have you worked with? How many projects? Team work? all that?
[07:45:05] <WickedWicky> notepad++ ftw
[07:45:08] * WickedWicky runs
[07:45:14] <oninoshiko> so you say, but I've never benefited from one... excepting when i was working in languages i didn't properly know anyway
[07:45:15] * jmcp_ snorts
[07:45:17] <cmihai> Look, vim / EMACS tend to be fine when dealing with simple C code or system programming. Once you've moved up..
[07:45:17] <e^ipi> java and C++, a couple handful, and yes
[07:45:26] <LeftWing> Working with large libraries and APIs (such as those available in Java) is certainly a quicker and easier task with a code-completing IDE than with VIM.
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[07:45:52] <cmihai> Not to say that these IDEs do give you some RAD tools also. It all depends on your development methodology. RAD, XP Programming, whatever.
[07:46:50] <cmihai> Then there's the software testing & q/a stuff IDEs have around.
[07:46:57] <cmihai> Unit testing and all that.
[07:47:04] <LeftWing> cmihai: But you can do all that with VIM too! ;P
[07:47:14] <oninoshiko> you can unit test just fine without an IDE
[07:47:15] <cmihai> Yeah, sure.
[07:47:22] <cmihai> Heck, you can program just fine with ed(1)
[07:47:36] <cmihai> It's about doing it efficiently.
[07:47:39] <LeftWing> Yeah.
[07:47:40] <WickedWicky> jmcp_ did you fly back to .au already?
[07:47:50] <cmihai> Hell, I'm sure you can do UML in ed too... nice little ASCII art
[07:47:55] <LeftWing> haha
[07:49:02] <jmcp_> WickedWicky: nope, next week
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[07:49:16] <WickedWicky> it's all a matter of preferences anyway, if one feels he can do a beter job with a text editor he'll surely have good reasons for that
[07:49:39] <cmihai> Yep, not knowing how to use the IDE tools :-)
[07:49:50] <cmihai> When you start out, IDEs really slow you down.
[07:50:05] <cmihai> And you probably spend more on learning the IDE and the tools.
[07:50:22] <cmihai> But once you're knee deep in complex code, teamware stuff and all that, it's a different story.
[07:50:31] <WickedWicky> I for starters, always refer IDE to harddisks :P
[07:51:08] <cmihai> What if it's an IDE cdrom? IDE is a bus mate :P
[07:51:19] <WickedWicky> all my cdroms were SCSI :P
[07:52:01] <WickedWicky> and my C skills dont go much further than opening,closing, writing,reading files, oh and a segfault here and there by writing to pointers that dont exist and all
[07:52:15] <fuzzy> that's like refering to usb as that mouse port
[07:52:16] <WickedWicky> java... I wont even go there, I try to keep on the application maintaining level there
[07:52:29] <WickedWicky> fuzzy: no, that's PS/2
[07:52:30] <WickedWicky> :P
[07:52:49] <fuzzy> you'd be supprised what i've heard sometimes
[07:52:50] <oninoshiko> dont forget ADB for all the mac users!
[07:53:05] <fuzzy> excuse me but my mac doesn't have adb
[07:53:21] <WickedWicky> fuzzy: can't be worse than this genuis at work not knowing what a serial port was
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[07:53:51] * oninoshiko doesnt own any macs anymore
[07:53:52] <fuzzy> i actually had an accountant years ago use a cdrom drive for her tea holder
[07:54:02] <oninoshiko> but when i did, they had SDB
[07:54:11] <oninoshiko> ADB*
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[08:05:02] <zero452225> Hello
[08:05:48] <zero452225> Does anyone have problems ejecting an optical drive using firewire?
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[08:06:40] <zero452225> hello?
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[08:08:00] <jmcp_> zero452225: I haven't heard of any problems with it
[08:09:10] <flyingparchment> jmcp_: could you tell me if http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/document.do?assetkey=1-26-103111-1 is related to my mpt bug?  (i still can't view it.. :(
[08:09:42] <jmcp_> remind me what your mpt bug was?
[08:09:52] <flyingparchment> jmcp_: luns > 2TB give an error and don't work
[08:10:26] <jmcp_> oh, right
[08:10:34] <jmcp_> then yes, that doc is related to your issue
[08:10:51] <flyingparchment> does it say anything interesting? :)
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[08:12:13] <jmcp_> it doesn't, but there's progress afoot
[08:12:16] <zero452225> jmcp_: this is the problem i am having http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/laptop-discuss/2006-July/006845.html
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[08:12:35] <zero452225> it says i have to change src
[08:12:52] <jmcp_> flyingparchment: did you log a call about 6322028 or 6446083?
[08:13:17] <flyingparchment> jmcp_: still don't have support, so i can't.  (i've had a quote for weeks now, but getting someone to actually buy it is harder than you might think)
[08:13:23] <jmcp_> zero452225: no, it doesn't say that *you* have to change the source, it says that Juergen came up with a fix for the issue
[08:13:28] <jmcp_> flyingparchment: ow
[08:13:48] <jmcp_> flyingparchment: "there's a fix for this issue, but you cheap ba*ds have to pony up the cash for a support contract first"
[08:13:49] <jmcp_> :-)
[08:13:56] <jmcp_> zero452225: let me check something...
[08:14:05] <flyingparchment> jmcp_: if i say that they'll say "use linux, it doesn't have this issue" ;)
[08:15:01] <jmcp_> flyingparchment: that's a shame
[08:15:16] <jmcp_> zero452225: Juergen's change hasn't been integrated :(
[08:15:54] <bda> Wow. Our log setup is way worse than I feared it was.
[08:16:05] <flyingparchment> so, JES pricing is based on number of employees, right?  what if we don't have any? :)
[08:16:20] <bda> Using socklog to pipe to multilog to pipe through a postprocessor to store logs by date and compress the automatically.
[08:16:25] <bda> Three layers of kludge. Awesome.
[08:16:51] <bda> And it's writing the logs in three different places.
[08:17:02] * bda sighs.
[08:17:12] <zero452225> jmcp_: thanks, the weirdest part is eject command well work if the computer is booted with a blank in it.
[08:17:21] <jmcp_> that is kinda bizarre
[08:17:37] <bda> The proper answer was obviously "syslog-ng" so they didn't do it.
[08:18:22] <zero452225> jmcp_: only when its a TI bridge we have 2 other ones but using those bridges it wont do it at all sometimes
[08:19:08] <zero452225> jmcp_: am i going to have to go into the source and recompile those 4 lines of code lol or could i just compile the driver module?
[08:20:31] <jmcp_> you'd need to compile that entire driver
[08:21:42] <zero452225> jmcp_: i use gentoo linux so i am pretty familiar about compiling, well it be hard?
[08:22:00] <e^ipi> lol
[08:22:12] <e^ipi> "emerge foo" doesn't make you familiar with compiling
[08:22:17] <bda> o_O
[08:22:40] <e^ipi> "watching shit scroll by for hours made me a unix master overnight!"
[08:23:01] <zero452225> e^ipi: yeah well emerge isn't perfect.
[08:23:24] <jmcp_> zero452225: it could be difficult for you, you should do some reading first
[08:23:27] <sickness> morning all
[08:23:28] <e^ipi> perfect or not, it teaches you nothing
[08:23:41] <zero452225> jmcp_: i expect too
[08:24:05] <jmcp_> start here http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/os_dev_process/, read it all - every link - and come back here to ask questions
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[08:32:05] <zero452225> thanks for the docs, i have another question. do u have to make zones and what not to run linux apps, or is there a way to run them without doing the zone stuff.
[08:32:34] <jmcp_> you need a "Branded Zone" to run linux apps
[08:32:43] <flyingparchment> "the zone stuff" is easy anyway
[08:33:20] <flyingparchment> "After 90 days, you need to purchase the license to use Java Enterprise System." < hm. :(
[08:33:31] <bda> Zones++
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[08:37:46] <flyingparchment> okay, apparently we have 1 employee
[08:37:57] <flyingparchment> so i can buy JES support for $50/year :)
[08:38:18] <bda> How does that work?
[08:38:33] <LeftWing> Isn't there a minimum number of employees for that pricing to apply?
[08:38:44] <flyingparchment> LeftWing: is there?  i didn't see any other prices on the page
[08:38:51] <flyingparchment> (http://www.sun.com/software/javaenterprisesystem/compare.xml)
[08:39:02] <flyingparchment> it does say you get more if you have > 100 employees, but not that you need that many
[08:39:28] <LeftWing> Fair enough.
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[08:46:45] <flyingparchment> oh, apparently you do have to license at least for 100
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[08:53:47] <ofu> is there a xen-tutorial available?
[08:54:18] <ofu> im trying to create a hvm-nevada-domU and it fails with /usr/lib/xen/bin/xenconsole: Could not read tty from store: No such file or directory
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[09:04:18] <noyb> I'm having a bit of trouble with latest sxce (snv_75) where the gui-install is dumping core on my Toshiba Tecra M2.  I guess I'll wait for 76?  :-)
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[09:06:41] <trochej> Mornin'
[09:08:03] <jmcp_> noyb: or try the non-caiman installer
[09:08:21] <noyb> thx.  I didn't think of that.  silly me.
[09:08:44] <jmcp_> :)
[09:08:46] <GiacoX> is it possible to recovery a root password of a small-zone ?
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[09:09:52] <noyb> jmcp_: in the grub menu?  or a bit later?
[09:09:55] <noyb> duh
[09:09:58] <jmcp_> a bit later
[09:10:19] <tsp> GiacoX: can you blank out root's pw in the shadow file of the zone? that might work, but I'm not sure
[09:10:34] <noyb> at grub, I selected sxde
[09:10:35] <GiacoX> thanks I try
[09:11:24] <tsp> GiacoX: the format is root:password:other stuff, just delete the password and keep the :'s
[09:11:29] <noyb> jmcp_: single user shell
[09:11:34] * noyb drivels...
[09:11:39] <noyb> ?
[09:11:54] <palowoda> noyb: Console text mode install.
[09:12:15] <noyb> hrm...
[09:12:15] <jmcp_> noyb: you chose failsafe
[09:12:18] <noyb> k
[09:12:34] <jmcp_> noyb: choose the "Solaris Express" option from grub
[09:12:47] <noyb> did that.
[09:12:49] <GiacoX> tsp, it worked! thanks
[09:13:44] <noyb> oh.  not "...Developer Edition" but simply "Solaris Express"
[09:14:41] <jmcp_> yeah
[09:14:44] <palowoda> Yes, the Developers Express is just another fancy name for the Camin Installer.
[09:14:54] <jmcp_> that'll boot and let you choose the GUI or Text Mode installer
[09:15:09] <noyb> ok
[09:15:18] <tsp> GiacoX: np
[09:15:19] <palowoda> Text mode is faster.
[09:15:27] <palowoda> Figure the gui bits out later.
[09:15:43] <noyb> wee!   lots of shiny buttons...  (1-6) this time...  :-)
[09:16:01] <nico> morning
[09:16:04] * noyb chooses 4
[09:16:10] <palowoda> go for it
[09:16:11] <auto359> i installed pkg-get using pkgadd, is the default behaviour of the install to need to invoke ./opt/csw/bin/pkg-get or should i just be able to use the cmd 'pkg-get' anywhere?
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[09:17:58] <noyb> we usually set the PATH variable to avoid such gymnastics.
[09:18:11] <palowoda> Shesh the new SXDE aka Caiman installer needs something to be desired at the moment.
[09:18:40] <noyb> palowoda: yes.  I need a non-crash feature added.
[09:19:08] <noyb> and it's skeletal for how to arrange partitions, etc.
[09:19:16] <palowoda> All the fancy stuff just adds a layer to hide problems.
[09:19:47] <noyb> see apple stock.  see apple stock run.
[09:20:15] <palowoda> See Steve Jobs tell you what you can and cannot do with your computer.
[09:20:31] <jmcp_> ... or your phone
[09:20:34] <noyb> *sniff*
[09:20:39] <palowoda> OSX is just one bozo's ego trip.
[09:21:07] <auto359> indeed, speaking of, heard of anyone running SXDE on one of them new fancy 24" macs?
[09:21:08] <logic_> Tpenta: he Tpenta, good morning, did you have Xvm working yesterday? with the changed grub menu.lst
[09:22:10] <palowoda> Running a 24" without the Apple tax.
[09:22:16] <auto359> yes
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[09:22:59] <auto359> when i get one, first thing is replace the dvd drive with a region free one, then rm -rf OSX and install sxde
[09:23:17] <e^ipi> so why bother buying an apple at all?
[09:23:32] <auto359> cos they look good, the whole integrated concpet
[09:23:35] <auto359> concept*
[09:24:09] <auto359> unless there is another product that you know combines computer and monitor ...
[09:24:10] <trochej> Fok
[09:24:15] <auto359> me
[09:24:17] <e^ipi> dell sells them
[09:24:22] <e^ipi> IBM sells them
[09:24:23] <auto359> really?
[09:24:24] <trochej> I have to work on Mac OS X
[09:24:26] <trochej> It
[09:24:27] <trochej> sucks
[09:24:43] <auto359> e^ipi: i don't get out much 8-)
[09:25:50] <auto359> if i download and extract a .tar i made using linux onto my sxde, will it still be readable, is only personal files from /home/dir
[09:26:36] <jmcp_> auto359: use /usr/sfw/bin/gtar
[09:26:47] <auto359> jmcp_: cheers
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[09:26:49] <jmcp_>  /usr/bin/tar doesn't always grok GNU Tar extensions
[09:26:59] <auto359> ah right
[09:27:42] <palowoda> "star" seems to work with both of them but that is another story
[09:27:46] * jmcp_ hides
[09:28:44] <bda> wtf, syslog. Die.
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[09:29:02] <palowoda> That is the vacation feature.
[09:29:43] <trochej> :
[09:29:48] <trochej> :)
[09:31:03] <noyb> bda: ?  - can you elaborate on the problem?
[09:31:26] <bda> svcadm disable system-log disables the service, but syslogd respawns.
[09:31:31] <flyingparchment> since solaris has been replacing things that suck with things that don't recently, is syslog going to get an overhaul? :)
[09:31:36] <bda> 08/07, not ONNV.
[09:32:36] <auto359> e^ipi: what is the product range from dell that is like the new imac?
[09:32:55] <e^ipi> don't remember... lemme check
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[09:34:24] <tsp> flyingparchment: what has solaris replaced recently?
[09:34:43] <flyingparchment> tsp: init -> smf, chroot -> zones, /dev/poll -> ports..
[09:35:04] <e^ipi> flyingparchment: that's nonsense.. they replaced the old good installer with the new flashy useless one
[09:35:19] <e^ipi> they haven't been replacing stuff that sucks, they've just been replacing things
[09:35:19] <flyingparchment> hey, i didn't say that's all they're doing :)
[09:35:37] <noyb> /etc/init.d didn't suck?
[09:35:46] <palowoda> bda: Try disabling and enabling system-log on build 72 and it works.  It shuts the system log deamon down and restarts it.
[09:35:53] <fuzzy> i'd rather have a functional operating system then a flashy installer
[09:36:00] <auto359> i was a bit disappointed that the sxde installer would allow my debian partition to automatically written into GRUB
[09:36:01] <bda> palowoda: No, I'm an idiot. Or just very tired.
[09:36:08] <bda> palowoda: Or need to alias ps -ef to ps -efZ.
[09:36:15] <auto359> would not allow* ... sorry
[09:36:18] <fuzzy> i shouldn't need to view it enogh times to make tat decision
[09:36:21] <e^ipi> auto359: there's the gateway one PC, the sony vaio LT
[09:36:57] <e^ipi> averatech has the "allinone" pc
[09:37:02] <palowoda> Repeat after me the SXDE installer is on drugs.
[09:37:14] <auto359> k, ta, i foud an article on dell that was basically a clunky big laptop, nothing like an imac
[09:37:19] * bda hugs Jumpstart.
[09:37:23] <noyb> palowoda: hehe
[09:37:37] <e^ipi> the sony AIO pc is actually kinna stilish
[09:37:43] <e^ipi> stylish*
[09:38:01] <auto359> 8-)
[09:38:07] <g4lt> I think it was better as "stillish"
[09:38:16] <g4lt> as in "comatose"
[09:38:16] <e^ipi> HP TouchSmart IQ770
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[09:39:21] <auto359> e^ipi: ta
[09:39:23] <e^ipi> there's a bunch of all in one PC's that aren't imacs
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[09:39:49] <auto359> the sony comes default with vista, there's a good reason to solaris it up
[09:39:57] <auto359> so it seems
[09:40:18] <auto359> my girls (wifey) included are all mac fiends 8-(
[09:41:08] <fuzzy> at least their laptops hold up much better than any other one i've had in my hands
[09:41:31] <e^ipi> i dig my macbook *shrug*
[09:41:33] <palowoda> Some of them even burn your hands.
[09:41:52] <auto359> true enough
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[09:46:30] <palowoda> Hey I have a laptop with a Nvidia 7800GTX in it.  I doen't have to worry about having a vaectomy and having kids any longer.
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[09:47:51] <noyb> jmcp_: (and friends...)  is the auto-layout *always* going to be strange?  I tried it just to see what it would give me.   No thanks.
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[09:48:28] <jmcp_> noyb: it will always be so, until it gets fixed
[09:48:35] <noyb> ;)
[09:48:38] <fuzzy> i have a 17" mbp
[09:49:09] <palowoda> Err what is an mbp?
[09:49:14] <fuzzy> macbook pro
[09:49:16] <fuzzy> sorry
[09:49:51] <palowoda> Well 17inch lcd laptops that do 1920x1200 are common these days.
[09:50:06] <fuzzy> i have the model before the high res option
[09:50:21] <fuzzy> hopefully i will be getting that model for christmas
[09:50:26] <palowoda> Makes it easy on the eyes.
[09:50:35] <fuzzy> mine only does the 1680x1050
[09:50:38] <fuzzy> which is nice
[09:50:45] <fuzzy> but with my cad and pshop
[09:50:53] <fuzzy> i'll take every pixel i can get
[09:51:47] <cmihai> fuzzy, hey, when you were at Intel
[09:51:57] <fuzzy> what about it
[09:52:00] <cmihai> Did you guys use MS Unified Communication platform for PBX and chat and stuff?
[09:52:03] <e^ipi> with my code and my... more code... 80 columns is good enough unless the other coders are jerks and don't respect 80 character wide rows
[09:52:08] <cmihai> You know, LCD and all that
[09:52:11] <noyb> jmcp_: do you or others have a favorite partition scheme I could borrow?  I'm about to commit to:  /=10G, swap=1G, /lu=10G, /home=36G, /boot=leftovers...  172MB
[09:52:32] <fuzzy> cmihai: we used netbeating for the meetings, but mainly cisco ayava stuff for the phones
[09:52:55] <cmihai> Funny. I'm at a Microsoft conference atm, and they said Intel uses this thing  for their 100k employees
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[09:53:14] <fuzzy> uses what?
[09:53:33] <fuzzy> they started useing microsoft office communicator for a bit while i was there
[09:53:37] <fuzzy> but most people rejected it
[09:53:38] <cmihai> Ah, yes.
[09:53:49] <cmihai> Office Communicator is a client for LCS (Live Communication Server)
[09:53:52] <fuzzy> they had it locked where we couldn't pass links in chat
[09:53:56] <cmihai> fuzzy, so the migration wasn't exactly a success?
[09:54:01] <fuzzy> oh hell no
[09:54:06] <cmihai> fuzzy, yeah, I know, it's a policy, we do that too :P
[09:54:09] <cmihai> Just to piss people off.
[09:54:13] <fuzzy> they blocked our ability to send links
[09:54:22] <fuzzy> when 99% of my job was to send links
[09:54:24] <cmihai> Nah, I actually allow links :-P
[09:54:33] <fuzzy> we just went back to emailing them everywhere
[09:54:44] <cmihai> heh
[09:54:45] <jmcp_> noyb: I generally have / being about 1/3 of my space on the laptop, then 4Gb for swap, and the rest ofr a combined /export/home and /scratch
[09:54:45] <noyb> h t t p : / / w w w . u g u . c o m   doesn't work?
[09:54:53] <cmihai> Should have taken it up with your admin :-)
[09:54:54] <jmcp_> I tend to store my source trees on /scratch
[09:54:59] <fuzzy> xhttp://www.google.com worked
[09:55:04] <fuzzy> but http://www.google.com didn't
[09:55:07] <flyingparchment> noyb: /boot?  what for?
[09:55:20] <fuzzy> cmihai: that's just it, we didn't really have one
[09:55:26] <fuzzy> we called the internal help desk
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[09:55:53] <fuzzy> they would send our request to an administrative admin
[09:56:00] <fuzzy> which would send us an email back
[09:56:05] <cmihai> Heh
[09:56:06] <fuzzy> and then we could ask our question
[09:56:38] <noyb> flyingparchment: dunno...  it's just there from my last install LU to snv_62.  maybe liveupgrade put it there?   seriously, I don't know how it got there, or I just don't remember, which I think is rather scary...
[09:57:32] <fuzzy> the first time i was at intel my email didn't work for like the first month, my boss went on vacation the day after i started for two weeks, i tried to call tech support, they kept asking me for my email, and i kept trying to explain to them i didn't have one.  Their answer was, get one and call us back, then we can help you
[09:57:37] <cmihai> fuzzy, any idea how that scaled for all the users?
[09:57:48] <fuzzy> whole deptmarments rejected it
[09:57:49] <cmihai> Gee.
[09:58:07] <fuzzy> kinda like sharepoint
[09:58:14] <fuzzy> at first the managers were happy with it
[09:58:21] <jmcp_> zero452225: just heard back from the R.E. (responsible engineer) for that bug - he's got that change rolled up into a bundle with a heap of others which require extensive testing, so there'll be no news for a while
[09:58:25] <fuzzy> until they realized they needed a cluster to do anything with it
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[09:58:46] <fuzzy> and file locking sucked
[09:58:48] <jmcp_> zero452225: you'd probably be better off in the meantime spinning your own binary - and remember to keep applying that change to every subsequent source drop :-0
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[09:59:21] <cmihai> fuzzy, It's integrated with sharepoint and exchange and all that. I kind of like it. It's just hard to get users to use the damn thing :-)
[09:59:46] <noyb> lemme paste a format/verify so you can see it for yourself: http://pastebin.ca/747690
[09:59:53] <fuzzy> because it sucks so bad
[10:00:10] <fuzzy> it's slow, browser locked, and a pain to customize
[10:00:11] <cmihai> What do you mena?
[10:00:18] <cmihai> Well, yeah.
[10:00:24] <fuzzy> ever tried to use open office or firefox with sharepoint?
[10:00:33] <fuzzy> ever tried to use thunderbird with exchange?
[10:00:34] <cmihai> Heh, no.
[10:00:37] <cmihai> Yep.
[10:00:51] <fuzzy> try having a linux based client
[10:00:56] <cmihai> Works fine, Exchange does IMAP too. Though if you want MAPI, you must use a hack like Evolution with that OWA thing.
[10:00:57] <fuzzy> or a solaris based client for that matter
[10:01:01] <noyb> flyingparchment: that pastebin was for you as part of my answer: http://pastebin.ca/747690
[10:01:01] <cmihai> Works fine.
[10:01:03] <fuzzy> and try to interopt with sharepoint
[10:01:16] <trochej> I tried to use Evolution with exchange and to some xtent it worked
[10:01:31] <cmihai> trochej, yeah, but that actually uses OWA, the web interface thingy.
[10:01:38] <flyingparchment> noyb: oh.. that's not a real slice, it's some magical thing
[10:01:52] <flyingparchment> noyb: don't create it, it'll get created for you if it's needed
[10:01:55] <trochej> cmihai: I don't know, I used the Exchange option from Create an account :)
[10:02:08] <flyingparchment> noyb: (notice that you can't edit slice 8 :)
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[10:02:32] <noyb> I did in fact notice that.  :-)
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[10:03:16] * noyb removes lame /boot item...   :-)
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[10:07:03] <noyb> what's this "warning: change default boot device" trash?
[10:07:29] <noyb> I seem to remember having some trouble booting after initial install a couple years ago...
[10:08:10] <trochej> a couple years ago.. :)
[10:08:13] <trochej> nice line :)
[10:08:41] <noyb> it was in fact a couple.  build 37 I think
[10:09:09] <noyb> then several LU to get to 62, and now I want a fresh install of 72.
[10:10:02] <trochej> 72 was a nice, good breed
[10:10:03] <trochej> :)
[10:10:28] <noyb> I meant 75
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[10:12:15] <flyingparchment> what does it mean if a  vendor offers indemnification on a product?
[10:13:19] <palowoda> It means you get a coupon for a free product if someone sues you.
[10:14:17] <palowoda> That or cash which ever you perfer.
[10:16:20] <palowoda> When somebody sues you for patent infringement the vendor pays for the end results.
[10:16:21] <trochej> indemwhat?
[10:16:54] <flyingparchment> trochej: sun.com keeps telling me i should buy support to get indemnification :)
[10:16:55] <trochej> I hope that one day God will soue everyone around for the use of word Creation :)
[10:16:59] <jmcp_> trochej: it's like an insurance policy
[10:17:04] <jmcp_> trochej: dictionary.com etc
[10:17:23] <flyingparchment> palowoda: so basically, if their software costs me money because it's faulty, they'll cover the cost?
[10:17:44] <trochej> jmcp_: I'm making jokes on that I can't spell it :)
[10:18:45] <jmcp_> oh
[10:18:53] <palowoda> patents may end up costing a company or an individual weither we like the end results or not.  But that is a legal issue not really anthing you can come to a resolution on a chat list.
[10:19:43] <palowoda> s/anthing/anything
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[10:22:52] <palowoda> Also Sun.com sells support to install patches.  It's kind of like getting sued but worse. :)
[10:22:53] <joe-root> hi
[10:23:11] <joe-root> i m trying to make a simple script but i need a little help
[10:23:12] <joe-root> it has to do
[10:23:14] <joe-root> a
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[10:27:16] <joe-root> df -k > to a file and compare it to the ls -l /
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[10:27:34] <joe-root> but don't show the directory that appear with the df -ik
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[10:37:13] <Atomdrache> Does anybody know why synergy might disable my screen saver/screen lock?
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[11:01:30] <noyb> constant mouse activity?
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[11:02:39] <noyb> sniff the traffic and see if there's a lot of data between the hosts without moving the mouse.  that may be the reason.
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[11:04:44] <timsf> hi all
[11:05:53] <trochej> Hi
[11:08:24] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o asyd
[11:09:49] <noyb> \_o<
[11:09:57] <noyb> ;)
[11:10:28] <noyb> asyd: whuh?  no quack back?
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[11:10:47] <asyd> :)
[11:10:48] <asyd> \_o<
[11:12:35] <quasi> hey hey asyd
[11:12:49] <asyd> how goes mates?
[11:13:53] <quasi> downhill
[11:14:23] <noyb> asyd: finally doing a fresh install since 37...
[11:14:50] <asyd> hmm, just a little question, do you know if apache2.2 provides API to modules for caching ? I remember in 1.3 every modules was needed to implements their own cache system
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[11:23:04] <noyb> asyd: does this help?: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/caching.html
[11:24:11] <asyd> noyb: well, this modules is used to cache pages, I need to check the source if it uses some caching APIs provide by apache itself (by caching I'm talking about internal datas, like config etc), but yes that may help :p
[11:27:47] <auto359> i'm a bit overwhelmed by all the info available on solaris 10, in the sun.com infosphere, where do i go for a sxde wiki or tutorial regarding no sound?
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[11:29:15] <quasi> asyd: what sort of caching?
[11:29:55] <quasi> asyd: or rather, what do you want to cache?
[11:30:17] <asyd> well, for example I remember when I start to write a module to allow virtualhosts declaration in LDAP, I was needed to cache data fetch from LDAP
[11:31:10] <quasi> well, that's something you might get away with doing with apr reslists
[11:31:19] <asyd> ok
[11:31:38] <quasi> but have a look at one of the other 10 or 15 modules that does the same
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[11:32:39] <asyd> quasi: when I look in 1.3, every modules used differents ways :p but it's true I didn't take a look in 2.2 modules
[11:33:25] <quasi> asyd: well, 2.x is very different from 1.3...
[11:33:33] <asyd> I know, that's why I ask :p
[11:33:45] <asyd> thanks a lot!
[11:35:48] <quasi> http://svn.in.force-elite.com:8080/svn/mod_vhost_dbi/trunk/src/mod_vhost_dbi.c might be worth a look, but doesn't appear to be caching much
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[11:49:27] <quasi> asyd: http://modules.apache.org/search?id=886
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[12:11:02] <Pietro_S> damn, sry for misclick
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[12:13:47] <flyingparchment> isn't it considered a security vulnerability to use temporary filenames of the form /tmp/foo$$ in shell scripts?
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[12:15:22] <quasi> flyingparchment: yes it is
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[12:17:23] <flyingparchment> lots of stuff in /usr/bin/ seems to do it
[12:17:45] <tfb> quasi: why? (curious, not rhetorical)
[12:18:12] <flyingparchment> tfb: guess $$, symlink /tmp/foo$$ somewhere else before the program opens it
[12:18:27] <flyingparchment> tfb: program runs "acmd >/tmp/foo$$", acmd's output gets written to a file of the attacker's choice
[12:18:57] <flyingparchment> (guessing $$ is easy if you just poll for a vulnerable program being run)
[12:19:34] <quasi> /etc/passwd or /etc/shadow are popular targets
[12:19:38] <tfb> yes.
[12:20:05] <tfb> so really the issue is you need to make sure you made the file first
[12:20:17] <flyingparchment> the real fix is to use a temporary directory :)
[12:20:18] <kjetilho> then you get a race
[12:20:24] <kjetilho> flyingparchment: yes
[12:20:28] <flyingparchment> mkdir is guaranteed to either create it owned by you, or fail
[12:21:08] <tfb> kjetilho: yes, I meant avoiding the race somehow.
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[12:21:31] <kjetilho> wrt /etc/passwd -- it helps if libc isn't to liberal with its input
[12:21:55] <kjetilho> in Linux, a *core dump* containing a single line of valid input is (was?) accepted
[12:22:30] <flyingparchment> i think my favourite solaris vuln was the one where dtappgather would chown a file in /var/tmp with a fixed name :)
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[12:22:33] <flyingparchment> ln -s /etc/passwd /var/tmp/whatever; /usr/dt/bin/dtappgather ...
[12:22:36] <tfb> presumably touch /tmp/file$$ then test -f /tmp/file$$ is safe: if it exists and is a file (not a link, so perhaps you need to do a better test than -f) you're OK
[12:22:37] <flyingparchment> (as it's setuid)
[12:22:56] <kjetilho> tfb: it's still a race
[12:23:03] <kjetilho> between the test -f and the actual usage
[12:23:23] <flyingparchment> tfb: test -f doesn't test that _you_ own it
[12:23:30] <tfb> if someone else can overwrite your files in /tmp then they are either you or root.  So game is already over
[12:23:50] <flyingparchment> so you touch the symlink's target, the attacker removes the symlink, you test -f, the attacker puts the symlink back, you run acmd >>/tmp/foo$$, you lose.
[12:23:55] <kjetilho> touch won't fail for root
[12:24:03] <flyingparchment> obviously that's a bit more tricky, but i've seen it done in practice
[12:24:27] <tfb> no no, you check the file is *not* a link (that's why -f is not enough)
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[12:24:51] <tfb> (and, yeah, check ownership)
[12:25:40] <kjetilho> you can't check file type and ownership at the same time
[12:25:48] <flyingparchment> it's really much easier and safer to just do mkdir /tmp/foo$$ || { echo "we lose"; exit; }
[12:25:49] <kjetilho> hmm, perhaps with find?
[12:25:56] <flyingparchment> then you can create all the files you want in /tmp/foo$$ with no worries :)
[12:26:10] <Berny> morning
[12:26:16] <kjetilho> flyingparchment: here here :)
[12:26:24] <tfb> flyingparchment: yeah, I agree, I'm just being obtuse :-)
[12:26:43] <Berny> anyone got a hint why oss fails to allocate a dma buffer for the sound card when running as dom0? (snv75)
[12:27:11] <flyingparchment>  who=`$WHOAMI`
[12:27:12] <flyingparchment> *TRC_FILE="/tmp/${who}swup.trc"
[12:27:17] <flyingparchment> awesome!
[12:27:57] <flyingparchment> (/usr/bin/swupnot)
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[12:29:34] <flyingparchment>    if /bin/ln /tmp/gztmp$$ "/tmp/$prog" 2>/dev/null; then
[12:29:37] <flyingparchment>      (/bin/sleep 5; /bin/rm -f /tmp/gztmp$$ "/tmp/$prog") 2>/dev/null &
[12:29:37] <flyingparchment>      /tmp/"$prog" ${1+"$@"}; res=$?
[12:29:41] <flyingparchment> (/usr/bin/gzexe)
[12:30:10] <flyingparchment> i love that one, it even executes an arbitrary program for you with no effort :)
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[12:30:45] <WickedWicky> Heya
[12:31:22] <Berny> lo wicky
[12:31:47] <WickedWicky> what's new?
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[12:43:18] <trochej> WickedWicky: Day
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[12:48:20] <WickedWicky> ello trochej, quasi
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[12:51:46] <WickedWicky> should I worry when I give all the commands with their exact parameters regarding SVM mirroring all slices on our servers out of the top of my head, on demand?
[12:52:38] <trochej> WickedWicky: Nope, you should worry some time before, now you can only lay down and wait for the end to come :)
[12:52:45] <WickedWicky> haha
[12:52:50] <jteo> true.
[12:54:36] <Tempt> WickedWicky: No, a complete knowledge of SDS/SVM is expected knowledge.
[12:54:56] <WickedWicky> Tempt: thanks for the comfort
[12:55:13] <flyingparchment> if you call it SDS, you are too old and should retire
[12:55:22] <Tempt> mate
[12:55:27] <Tempt> I spend five hours in a meeting today
[12:55:29] <trochej> matte
[12:55:32] <Tempt> discussing upgrades on a Solaris 8 host
[12:55:35] <WickedWicky> lol
[12:55:37] <Tempt> well, a Solaris 8 cluster
[12:55:42] <Tempt> which will be staying on Solaris 8
[12:55:45] <WickedWicky> Solstice Disk Suite
[12:56:17] <Tempt> VxVM 3.5 in this case
[12:56:18] <WickedWicky> I am approaching the airport, which means tunnel
[12:56:18] <WickedWicky> see ya all later
[12:56:33] <palowoda> Hey the good old days Tempt.
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[12:57:26] <Tempt> I believe I will still be working on Solaris 8 hosts in five years.
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[13:02:23] <quasi> disk suite or disk sweat? ;)
[13:03:21] <kszwed> disk sweet
[13:07:00] <quasi> prior to sol9, it really was disk sweat
[13:08:00] <Tempt> oh come on
[13:08:03] <Tempt> simple stuff
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[13:12:48] <quasi> in the rare cases where it actually worked
[13:13:55] <trochej> :)
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[13:15:53] <Tempt> worked just fine on 8
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[13:19:17] <jcsmith> Tempt, you sound like the Sr. Admin at work, if it was upto him everything would still be on Sol8
[13:19:43] <noyb> well I'm happy to see the "minimize" option back in the prefs for what to do when a title bar is double-clicked.  Thanks.
[13:19:59] <Tempt> absolutely not
[13:20:11] <Tempt> I'm a big fan of pushing the old out and replacing with the new
[13:20:27] <Tempt> I just don't throw up my hands because it isn't the latest and greatest
[13:20:43] <Tempt> and understand that proven stable platforms don't get ditched for fashion and trend reasons
[13:20:55] <rennj> solaris is till good to what 2012
[13:21:00] <rennj> solaris 8
[13:21:01] <kszwed> jcsmith, lucky you can run sol8 in zones now ;)
[13:22:04] <Tempt> kszwed: Yeah, and the particular enterprise you know I'm talking about will *really* get that happening soon ;)
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[13:22:34] <kszwed> Tempt, you never know =)
[13:22:47] <jcsmith> kszwed, yea maybe we'll move some of the crufty sol8 stuff to that when the hardware completely dies and a replacement can't be found :-(
[13:22:48] <Tempt> inertia
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[13:23:11] <rennj> heh i had solaris 2.6 boxes at last place
[13:23:24] <kszwed> decomissioning about 15 E450s to a couple of t2000s is quite a nice win for data centre capacity =)
[13:23:49] <Tempt> true
[13:23:51] <kszwed> and we could really use some of that ;)
[13:23:58] <CrashandDie> Hey, does anyone have experience about using the wpi driver for an intel abg 3945 wifi card ?
[13:23:59] <Tempt> anyway
[13:24:01] <jcsmith> we still have a couple of 2.6 boxes floating around, talk about a pain in the ass with the recent (last year) day light savings time changes
[13:24:02] <Tempt> real world intrudes
[13:24:17] <rennj> yeah or sendmail vulns or anything else
[13:24:41] <rennj> EOL from sun so you got to patch the box usally hand compiling what is no longer supported
[13:25:14] <jcsmith> rennj, luckily they're not publicly accessible so that's not as much of an issue as it could be
[13:25:30] <jcsmith> and sendmail is only accepting connections from localhost
[13:26:00] <rennj> yeah this server didnt need sendmail but the owners where boneheads
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[13:26:30] <jcsmith> i know how that goes
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[13:26:42] <quasi> I've got a small pile of 2.6 as well, but then we've also got vms and other oldies
[13:27:12] <jcsmith> ahhh, vms, we have some of that laying around too, but thankfully its on the way out the door
[13:27:50] <flyingparchment> what's wrong with VMS?  it's a lot more supported than solaris 2.6 :)
[13:28:09] <jcsmith> well recently we've had trouble finding someone qualified to admin it
[13:28:10] <quasi> one of the systems was originally sold as "data available forever"
[13:28:31] <jcsmith> but i've got to head toward work, talk to you guys later
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[14:13:07] <CrashandDie> Hi, I'm having problems with the wpi driver (wireless intel abg 3945)... Under Gnome/Networks, it sees it, I configure it (WEP + DHCP), and when I try to activate it, it works once, but doesn't update the dns servers or anything, don't get an ip address aswell, after that, I can't activate it anymore (activation fails)
[14:13:34] <CrashandDie> I'm a complete noob when it comes to Solaris so i'm quite at loss here
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[14:16:53] <CrashandDie> well I found some info about wificonfig, I'll see if I can get through it somehow, cheers
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[14:19:56] <auto359> using sxde on a amd64/x86, onboard sound card is not detected, before i d/l & install oss-solaris-v4 pkg, how do i verify that my sound is munged?
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[14:21:43] <sponix> auto359:  know what chipset your onboard sound is ?
[14:22:14] <auto359> yep, realtek alc660
[14:22:54] <sponix> checked the 3rd party sound drivers page ?
[14:23:10] <sponix> and the HCL for patches and stuff
[14:23:23] <auto359> was actually reading => HCL for Solaris OS
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[14:25:03] <auto359> sponix: where is the reference to the third party sound drivers? sun.com or opensolaris?
[14:25:19] <timsf> Hey folks - Is there a way to tell which install cluster is on a machine (Entire+OEM, Entire, Developer, etc. ?)
[14:26:17] <sponix> auto359:  solaris-x86.org has a drivers link, has stuff for 3rd party NIC and Sound
[14:26:30] <sponix> auto359:  site has some other good stuff as well
[14:26:40] <timsf> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/opensound/ too ?
[14:26:45] <auto359> sponix: thanks
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[14:29:19] <iMax> timsf: /var/sadm/system/admin/CLUSTER should have that info
[14:29:24] <timsf> Thanks iMax
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[15:00:23] <auto359> x86 sound works using OSS-solaris-v4 driver which is good, however can't turn it up too far, distorts monstrously
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[15:01:31] <auto359> 'spose i should be happy that onboard sound works period
[15:02:03] <timsf> You could always use an external amp :-)
[15:02:19] <timsf> That said, I'm sure the oss guys would be interested in your problem...
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[15:02:27] <auto359> could, it'll fine for a while, i miss my sound card
[15:04:02] <timsf> Are you using the latest driver btw ?
[15:04:26] <auto359> oss-solaris-v4, i guess so ...
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[15:04:40] <timsf> There's betas on their website, oss-v4.0-build1008
[15:04:56] <auto359> k, will go back and see
[15:06:13] <timsf> and otherwise, opensound-discuss at opensolaris dot org should have the answers. I met Dev from OSS at the opensolaris summit, and he's a pretty approachable guy
[15:07:03] <auto359> ok, neat, ta, it is definately workable, maybe i forgot how bad onboard sound really is, after a good little sound card
[15:16:01] <Pietro_S> auto359: what application is used when you play and hear that crap, because lot's of application support sun audio /oss and other stuff and oss has emulation of sun audio, but the sound isn't as clear as if you use oss alone
[15:16:43] <auto359> was actually playing a clip at youtube, one that i know plays fine previously with Debian/soundcard
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[15:17:25] <CrashandDie> hey guys, wifi card is running, I'm just having some trouble when configuring the routes
[15:17:50] <CrashandDie> the thing is, when running solaris, the machine doesn't reply to ping requests, nor does it send any
[15:18:13] <CrashandDie> even though it received an IP address from the DHCP server
[15:18:15] <Pietro_S> I fear that plugin in firefox which is used to play youtube, use sun audio , I would try to play some mp3, flac or whatever in some player
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[15:19:23] <auto359> Pietro_S: try an audio cd perhaps?
[15:20:04] <Pietro_S> audio cd is fine, just take look if your player is switched to use oss plugin ...
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[15:24:03] <tfb> CrashandDie: can you ping it from the same subnet?
[15:26:23] <auto359> playing a cd, same issue, if i open volume control up and increase the slider to say above 75%, crackly-statit cuts in with the music, also the volume control on the speaker unit needs to be turned right up for any good volume
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[15:29:24] <Pietro_S> auto359: ok, what software are you using for playing it?
[15:29:49] <auto359> rhythmbox
[15:30:27] <auto359> i think it might just be the fact that onboard sound on cheap VIA motherboards is ... er crap
[15:31:23] <jmcp_> it would have to *improve* to be merely crap
[15:31:44] <auto359> jmcp_: haha, how was dinner?
[15:32:47] <Pietro_S> auto359: yes it's also possible, but go to ask in  opensound-discuss at opensolaris dot org
[15:33:13] <auto359> Pietro_S: k, will
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[15:39:14] <auto359> k, night
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[15:41:24] <CrashandDie> Anyone any good with routes ? I can't ping my machine from the same subnet, wifi card *seems* to be configured correctly
[15:42:35] <jmcp_> CrashandDie: do you have a default route setup?
[15:43:25] <CrashandDie> jmcp_, that's the thing, I'm not sure what I'm doing, I thought I was doing it right, but since it didn't work, I'm assuming I was wrong
[15:44:04] <jmcp_> let's remove the assumptions and get to the facts - it'll be quicker
[15:44:27] <jmcp_> ok, so when you type "netstat -rn" how many default routes do you see?
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[15:45:32] <CrashandDie> err, I'm on a dualboot, give me 5 minutes the time I get another computer to be on IRC and reboot to solaris
[15:45:45] <jmcp_> ok, take notes :-)
[15:46:16] <CrashandDie> jmcp_, no, i'll go get another computer, so I can be on IRC *and* work on the solaris install, 5 minutes :)
[15:46:24] <jmcp_> oh, right
[15:46:27] <jmcp_> :)
[15:46:45] <jmcp_> firstly, "ifconfig -au" - make sure your wireless card is plumbed
[15:47:51] <jmcp_> then run "netstat -rn" and check that the network which your wifi card is part of has a route
[15:48:16] <jmcp_> and when you say "can't ping my machine from the same subnet" - that's "from a different machine entirely", correct?
[15:50:16] <iMax> well that should work regardless of a default route
[15:51:07] <jmcp_> iMax: true, so we're working from first principles here to try to figure out what's really going on
[15:51:29] <iMax> sure, did not want to interrupt :)
[15:51:38] <jmcp_> nowurries :)
[15:51:50] <iMax> 5 min are over btw :)
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[15:52:40] <crashand1ie> ok
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[15:53:02] <crashand1ie> rebooting to solaris now
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[15:56:30] <tsp> is zfs destroy supposed to take a substantial amount of time? I've been waiting for the past few minutes for it to complete
[15:57:20] <seanmcg> anything causing much i/o that could slow down the zfs destroy ?
[15:57:37] <tsp> I know it's working by the amount of free space in the pool going up, but it's dog slow
[15:57:39] <CrashandDie> Ok, I'm under solaris now, ifconfig -au returns 3 interfaces (2 actually), lo0 in IPv4, wpi0 in IPv4 and lo0 in IPv6
[15:57:48] <CrashandDie> all 3 are up and running
[15:58:02] <tsp> seanmcg: nope, the tar completed awhile ago - I didn't think that it would cause much I/O, just freeing blocks
[15:58:41] <jmcp_> CrashandDie: loX are loopback
[15:58:49] <jmcp_> wpi0 is your wifi
[15:58:54] <seanmcg> tsp: whats iostat -xnz 1 saying ?
[15:59:05] <CrashandDie> jmcp_: yeah, I figured
[15:59:07] <jmcp_> CrashandDie: does wpi0 have a valid IP address for the network you're on?
[15:59:41] <CrashandDie> jmcp_: yeah, it has the ip address (192.168.0.100) the DHCP is giving it (MAC Address based DHCP lease)
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[16:00:17] <jmcp_> CrashandDie: did you use dladm to connect to the AP ?
[16:00:32] <tsp> hmm, 4 mb/s reads
[16:00:42] <CrashandDie> no idea, I used the Gnome Networking tool to configure it
[16:01:03] <CrashandDie> jmcp_: configured it, rebooted, and I was connected to it...
[16:01:13] <tsp> it's just sitting there reading about 4mb/s, with %w and %b at 100
[16:01:30] <jmcp_> so you ran "dladm connect-wifi -e essid" ?
[16:01:41] <CrashandDie> no
[16:02:02] <jmcp_> you probably should
[16:02:11] <CrashandDie> ok
[16:02:18] <jmcp_> I'm fairly sure that if you don't then you really don't have a connection to any AP
[16:02:24] <jmcp_> which would be a serious impediment :-)
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[16:03:07] <CrashandDie> "dladm: cannot connect link 'wpi0': argument incorrect"
[16:03:16] <iMax> I have hardly an experience with wifi, but would you get an IP if you don't have a connection?
[16:03:25] <CrashandDie> iMax: exactly
[16:03:26] <jmcp_> iMax: sometimes you can
[16:03:27] <jmcp_> I think
[16:03:30] <iMax> ok
[16:03:34] <jmcp_> not too sure about wifi myself
[16:03:51] <jmcp_> CrashandDie: what was the exact dladm command you typed in?
[16:04:05] <CrashandDie> "dladm connect-wifi -e HomeNetwork"
[16:04:33] <jmcp_> hmm
[16:04:38] <jmcp_> try it without the "-e HomeNetwork"
[16:04:47] <CrashandDie> k
[16:05:06] <CrashandDie> jmcp_: same answer
[16:05:25] <jmcp_> ouch
[16:05:26] <jmcp_> that bites
[16:05:46] <CrashandDie> it does ?
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[16:07:29] <CrashandDie> well, that's always nice
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[16:07:56] <CrashandDie> iMax: I recall reading you saying I didn't need any routes to be defined for local pings to work ?
[16:08:41] <CrashandDie> iMax: isn't that impossible ? Shouldn't I tell the computer that it needs to send packets on a given network interface ?
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[16:09:10] <iMax> CrashandDie: if it is on the same network, then the os knows where to send it to based on the interface address
[16:09:21] <iMax> because it belongs to the same network anyway
[16:09:42] <CrashandDie> ok, how can I check the currently defined routes ?
[16:10:09] <LeftWing> netstat -rn
[16:10:10] <iMax> 'netstat -rn', like jmcp_ mentioned earlier
[16:10:11] <CrashandDie> I know there is route -p show, but I didn't define any persistent routes, so that's not of any kind of help
[16:10:14] <CrashandDie> thanks
[16:11:00] <CrashandDie> ok, I have 3 routes
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[16:11:31] <CrashandDie> dest: 127.0.0.1 gw: 127.0.0.1 iface: lo0
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[16:11:49] <CrashandDie> dst: default gw: 192.168.0.254 iface: wpi0
[16:11:49] <tsp> ah there it goes, zfs destroy finished
[16:11:57] <kjetilho> you're allowed to set up software RAID from inside a zone, right?  (if the zone has been allocated raw disks)
[16:11:58] <CrashandDie> jmcp_: welcome back
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[16:12:35] <CrashandDie> and the last one is: dst: 192.168.0.0 gw: 192.168.0.100 iface: wpi0
[16:12:40] <CrashandDie> so there's nothing wrong with that
[16:13:03] <iMax> you could try a snoop on the wifi network and check if you see any traffic at all
[16:13:11] <iMax> maybe try pinging again then
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[16:13:28] <CrashandDie> well, I did
[16:13:30] * jmcp_ grumbles about poxyprocies
[16:13:37] <jmcp_> so where did we get to?
[16:13:58] <CrashandDie> I saw data being sent from the other computer to the AP, and then from the AP towards the solaris box, but nothing came back
[16:14:10] <CrashandDie> jmcp_: routing tables are fine, seems like you said, wifi problem
[16:14:22] <iMax> did you do a snoop on the wifi interface?
[16:14:23] <jmcp_> that's a pain
[16:14:37] <CrashandDie> iMax: yeah, with the box I'm currently on
[16:15:01] <CrashandDie> iMax: was this night around 3am x)
[16:15:18] <iMax> so you saw ip traffic reaching the box?
[16:15:24] <CrashandDie> iMax: it didn't reach it
[16:15:29] <iMax> ah
[16:15:48] <kjetilho> (to answer myself: no, you can not use volume management in a non-global zone)
[16:15:56] <kjetilho> s/use/configure/
[16:15:59] <iMax> so no packets when you did "snoop -d wpi0'
[16:16:11] <CrashandDie> hang on, I'll check
[16:16:34] <CrashandDie> iMax: nothing
[16:17:24] <iMax> CrashandDie: then it would be interesting to know where you got the interface ip from :)
[16:17:39] <CrashandDie> yeah, I guess
[16:18:20] <iMax> do you see any remote mac addresses when you do 'arp -a'?
[16:18:35] <jmcp_> so on your other system on the same subnet, what does "traceroute (ip of wpi0)" show?
[16:18:47] <CrashandDie> iMax: none
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[16:20:01] <iMax> you don't have any restrictions (allowed mac addresses) or similar on your AP, do you? :)
[16:20:09] <CrashandDie> jmcp_: one hop on the machine and then nothing
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[16:20:54] <CrashandDie> oh hang on
[16:21:00] <CrashandDie> arp -a just finished
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[16:21:30] <CrashandDie> it found dev: wpi0 ip: 192.168.0.100 (it's own, this is the solaris box) and it's mac address
[16:21:49] <CrashandDie> then dev: wpi0 192.168.0.254 (the ap) but no mac address
[16:21:59] <seanmcg> tsp: with zfs destroy finished, is there still any i/o going on to those disks ?
[16:22:19] <CrashandDie> and finally: dev: wpi0 IP: 224.0.0.0 mask: 240.0.0.0 and some illegal mac address value
[16:22:30] <jmcp_> define illegal?
[16:22:39] <CrashandDie> 01:00:5e:00:00:00
[16:22:45] <trochej> ba:re:as:s::
[16:22:48] <seanmcg> broadcast perhaps..
[16:22:49] <jmcp_> yeah, that's bogus
[16:22:57] <iMax> multicast address I think
[16:23:14] <jmcp_> trochej: 01:00:5e == loose :-)
[16:23:27] <CrashandDie> could be, flags are SM
[16:24:02] <trochej> jmcp_: I see, I hit enter just miliscond after seanmcg :)
[16:25:59] <jmcp_> :)
[16:27:57] <trochej> [d]
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[16:28:06] <CrashandDie> i'm going to reboot the solaris machine, and sniff all the wifi packets, see where the ip address comes from
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[16:29:06] <CrashandDie> this probably means I'll get disconnected from IRC for a little while, I'll tell you what gives
[16:29:19] <iMax> good luck :)
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[16:39:38] <WickedWicky> \\o o//
[16:39:39] <WickedWicky> hey all
[16:40:19] <quasi> hey hey WickedWicky
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[16:41:29] <WickedWicky> what's up?
[16:42:18] * WickedWicky passed round one of his interview
[16:42:21] <WickedWicky> one more round to go
[16:42:23] <WickedWicky> \\o
[16:42:24] <jmcp_> :-D
[16:42:25] <WickedWicky> o//
[16:42:28] <jmcp_> neat-oh
[16:42:31] <WickedWicky> yes yes
[16:42:43] <holcomb> was that an ascii waving of the hands in the air?
[16:42:47] <WickedWicky> yes
[16:42:48] <holcomb> haha
[16:43:02] <WickedWicky> \o/ \\o o// <o>
[16:43:15] <WickedWicky> you can make cheerleader puffs too
[16:43:38] <WickedWicky> *\o/* *\*\o <*o*>
[16:43:43] <quasi> playing windmill?
[16:44:01] <WickedWicky> no, I am at the airport having a beer
[16:44:32] <quasi> WickedWicky: I thought there were better bars than having to go to the airport?
[16:44:39] <WickedWicky> there are some aussies sitting next to me.. they asked me to look something up on cnn, it took me about 30 seconds to decipher what they were asking
[16:45:08] <WickedWicky> where I had the interview is close to the airport, my train to where i live departs from here
[16:45:21] <quasi> ah, aussies - then it is obvious that there's beer around
[16:45:44] <quasi> WickedWicky: so you're switching to luggage hauling?
[16:45:47] <WickedWicky> you let them use your laptop to read one article on the net and you get a pint of beer on your table
[16:45:49] <WickedWicky> gotta love them
[16:45:58] <WickedWicky> quasi: No :P
[16:46:36] <WickedWicky> I'm here to pimp up the latinas that come to europe
[16:46:37] <CrashandDie> jmcp_: damnit, I can't seem to get anything from the DHCP requests...
[16:49:02] <CrashandDie> jmcp_: I did find something funny in the dmesg output
[16:49:32] <CrashandDie> "/sbin/dhcpagent[51]: configure_v4_lease: no IP broadcast specified for wpi0, making best guess"
[16:49:52] <WickedWicky> cool part is that they're looking for someone who isnt afraid to argue with management when the admin bypasses management to get to a good result
[16:50:18] <CrashandDie> bofh, eh ?
[16:50:22] <WickedWicky> no
[16:50:43] <WickedWicky> but sometimes conference calls lead to nowhere and things just have to be done
[16:50:56] <CrashandDie> yeah, I can understand that
[16:51:07] <CrashandDie> iMax: any more ideas ?
[16:52:05] <iMax> CrashandDie: hmm...never seen that message
[16:52:12] <iMax> does you dhcp provide a netmask?
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[16:52:31] <iMax> maybe the guessed netmask does not match the one on your network, or other machine
[16:53:23] <WickedWicky> ...
[16:53:41] <WickedWicky> isnt the whole point of asking for a DHCP lease to get the netmask and broadcast address from the DHCP server?
[16:54:08] <iMax> yes, but that does not necessarily mean the server provides the correct values
[16:54:22] <WickedWicky> so fix the server, instead of hacking a workaround
[16:54:35] <iMax> exactly, if the server is the issue :)
[16:54:48] <CrashandDie> iMax: the values are correct, there's like 5 other PCs that run great (including the one i'm typing on)
[16:54:55] <iMax> ok
[16:55:06] <CrashandDie> plus, just checked the value that got through DHCP, and it's correct
[16:55:26] <WickedWicky> you checked on the client side?
[16:55:29] <CrashandDie> yeah
[16:55:47] <WickedWicky> it's a assumed value, looking at the error you pasted it just means the client assumed right
[16:57:07] <CrashandDie> ok, so what other problems could there with symptoms like -it auths against the network -it retrieves an IP address and DNS servers -it can't communicate with anything on said network
[16:58:12] <iMax> do you have any ipfilter active or something?
[16:58:28] <CrashandDie> not that I know of. It's a base SXCE install
[16:58:31] <CrashandDie> I didn't touch anything
[16:58:43] <WickedWicky> do you use the ISC dhcp server?
[16:58:49] <phoenix24_> does solaris has anything like initrd/initramfs for linux ?
[16:59:11] <CrashandDie> WickedWicky: do you mean is there a DHCP server active on my machine ?
[16:59:12] <phoenix24_> does it even required ? or just a bloat in linux kernel ?
[17:00:50] <WickedWicky> CrashandDie: lemme paste you a part of the dhcpd.conf that I use
[17:00:53] <WickedWicky> subnet 10.88.0.0 netmask 255.255.0.0 {
[17:00:54] <WickedWicky>   option broadcast-address 10.88.255.255;
[17:00:54] <WickedWicky>   option subnet-mask 255.255.0.0;
[17:00:54] <WickedWicky>   option routers 10.88.0.1;
[17:00:54] <WickedWicky>   option domain-name-servers 213.75.16.100, 213.75.16.101;
[17:00:55] <WickedWicky> }
[17:01:35] <iMax> WickedWicky: I think he uses an dhcp server on a wireless router or something...
[17:01:56] <WickedWicky> right
[17:02:06] <WickedWicky> kinda hard to troubleshoot then
[17:02:22] <oninoshiko> phoenix24_: it can be necessary in linux to load kernel modules before access to the filesystems may be available (assuming you are not using a modular kernel, rather then a more monolithic one
[17:02:42] <CrashandDie> iMax: you are correct sire :)
[17:03:16] <CrashandDie> WickedWicky: there's nothing wrong with the DHCP server/router. I've been using it for years on Debian/Gentoo.
[17:03:37] <oninoshiko> phoenix24_: err assuming you ARE useing a more modular kernel
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[17:03:45] <CrashandDie> though, I was looking at the services installed, do I need to have "in.routed network routing daemon (network/routing/route)" running ?
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[17:04:58] <phoenix24_> oninoshiko, so the Solaris kernel is Modular ?
[17:05:16] <iMax> CrashandDie: not if you do not need to support any routing protocols afaik
[17:05:26] <CrashandDie> dayum
[17:05:31] <CrashandDie> I just don't get this
[17:06:12] <CrashandDie> and the worst thing is, solaris didn't even recognise my ethernet card ???
[17:06:34] <CrashandDie> so I'm pretty much stuck until I can figure this wireless thing out
[17:07:05] <CrashandDie> I gotta go, I'll be back later probably...
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[17:13:42] <rasputnik> Afternoon
[17:14:23] <rasputnik> I was about to try out Xen^w xVM - I hear you have to have a GLDv3 NIC if you want to do networking, is that right?
[17:16:37] <oninoshiko> phoenix24_: i believe so, the boot archive seems very similar in function to the initrd in linux (although implemented differently?). some of the guys here could probably be more helpful with the technical details
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[17:19:28] <pschow> rasputnik:  yeah, GLDv3 according to http://opensolaris.org/os/community/xen/docs/specs.html
[17:19:55] <rasputnik> pschow: cheers. I've got an e1000g0 interface free so I'll use that.
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[17:24:08] <cygnusecks> dduvall:  ?
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[17:38:42] <theRealBallchalk> hi fellaz
[17:40:35] <tomww> hi theRealBallchalk
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[17:41:00] <theRealBallchalk> hey tomww
[17:41:14] <theRealBallchalk> should i upgrade from b55?
[17:41:17] <theRealBallchalk> heh
[17:41:43] <cmihai> You know, the point of using SXCE is upgrading often.
[17:41:58] <cmihai> If you just stick to some ancient version, you're better off with Solaris 10 u4
[17:42:06] <cmihai> Just do alternate LiveUpgrades.
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[17:46:12] <tomww> theRealBallchalk: yes you should upgrade... your using postgresql? then you might want to wait on 76 IIRC there is pgAdmin3 in
[17:46:41] <theRealBallchalk> tomww no nothing serious i'm only using solaris as my desktop os
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[17:47:14] <theRealBallchalk> i'll wait some more to break the record heheh
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[17:50:45] <chenggao> anybody uses opensolaris for everyday work?
[17:50:56] <cypromis> I do
[17:51:13] <chenggao> is gnome stable enough?
[17:51:36] <cypromis> I don't use the gnomish parts much
[17:51:43] <tomww> I do since....nv38
[17:51:44] <chenggao> I am using Ubuntu in my work laptop (dell inspiron 6000), and plan to switch to another os
[17:51:57] <estibi> i do
[17:52:01] <chenggao> i wanna know if opensolaris is stable enough
[17:52:07] <chenggao> thanks for your info
[17:52:12] <chenggao> what i need are
[17:52:13] <tomww> chenggao: reasons for the change? just to check if this can be provided by opensolaris...
[17:52:35] <chenggao> openoffice, emacs
[17:52:39] <chenggao> mostly them
[17:52:57] <chenggao> tomww: just a little bored by GNU/Linux
[17:53:06] <tomww> hey cool .-)
[17:53:20] <timsf> Your laptop is even on the HCL (assuming it's the same revision)
[17:53:22] <timsf> http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/data/systems/details/906.html
[17:53:46] <chenggao> is hardware support good enough?  i mean for wireless netcard, radeon x300 video card
[17:54:03] <chenggao> timsf: thanks i'll check it
[17:54:14] <chenggao> i am waiting for starterkit
[17:54:46] <chenggao> i'll switch to opensolaris if it meets my need and is stable. otherwise i'll switch to freebsd
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[17:55:05] <timsf> Yeah, the iwi driver should work on that laptop I think
[17:56:02] <chenggao> timsf: great! this is the very laptop i got. the same hardware
[17:56:16] <dduvall> cygnusecks: what up
[17:56:28] <chenggao> just  i only got 512m memoery, is it enough
[17:56:33] <CrashandDie> back
[17:56:49] <cygnusecks> hey, I'm running into an issue on windows that appears to be because of some code that is taking advantage of an OpenSolaris-specific (probably generic posix) behavior
[17:56:51] <cygnusecks> wanted to run it by you
[17:57:06] <chenggao> today i downloaded belenix and burned a cd, but it can not boot up. i dont know why
[17:57:31] <dduvall> Sure.
[17:57:41] <chenggao> i just want to get my feet wet first.but it told me some error about decompressing of some file
[17:58:02] <chenggao> x86.microroot IIRC
[17:58:12] <chenggao> anybody knows why?
[17:58:27] <cygnusecks> in client/filelist.py, _make_opener generates some code which does open(), followed by unlink(), and then a read() occurs on the unlinked file. on Solaris, the contents of the file is returned with the read(), on windows, an exception is raised (Because an unlink() is performed on an open file)
[17:59:12] <cygnusecks> the code seems to be wanting to nuke the file asap, but still have access to its contents
[17:59:21] <chenggao> and anybody build emacs-unicode-2 branch successfully on opensolaris? i need make sure it works since I only use Gnus for email
[17:59:52] <cygnusecks> which is fine, but windows doesn't like unlink() on open files - my thought was to move the unlink() to wherever the code was being called
[18:00:02] <cygnusecks> after it is close()'d
[18:00:25] <CrashandDie> timsf: you have any experience with the wpi driver ?
[18:00:57] <timsf> My (broken) toshiba has an ipw card.
[18:00:58] <chenggao> anybody can shed some light on me? tia!
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[18:01:19] <timsf> (not iwi)
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[18:02:02] <CrashandDie> timsf: I have the ipw 3945, the card is correctly detected, but for some reason, it manages to get DHCP info (ip address and dns servers), but I can't even ping the router/other machines on the subnet
[18:02:26] <timsf> What's your default route ?
[18:02:49] <CrashandDie> dest: default gw: 192.168.0.254 iface: wpi0
[18:03:14] <timsf> aah, different card than I, I've not used that one.
[18:03:21] <CrashandDie> damn
[18:03:36] <CrashandDie> I just can't figure this one out
[18:04:04] <timsf> Send me a new laptop, and I'd be glad to have a go o:-)
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[18:10:48] <chenggao> where can i browse package list?
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[18:11:36] <timsf> pkginfo tells you what's installed on your system
[18:11:50] <timsf> there's no default network-facing packaging tools yet though
[18:12:04] <timsf> So, blastwave.org and it's "pkg-get" might be what you're after.
[18:12:23] <chenggao> timsf: i have not installed opensolaris. still waiting for starterkit
[18:12:53] <chenggao> timsf: just need make sure it has what i need. openoffice/emacs23 etc
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[18:13:37] <timsf> Emacs isn't in there by default afaik
[18:13:44] <Fish> hello
[18:13:46] <timsf> StarOffice I think is in /usr
[18:13:47] <chenggao> and i am confused by distros like belenix/nexenta etc. what should i install?
[18:13:49] <tomww> with sunstudio ther could be one bundled
[18:14:09] <timsf> (the world is confused by the number of distros we have at the moment - there's discussions ongoing abuot that)
[18:14:12] <tomww> and ther is  SFEemacs.spec SFEemacs-xft.spec
[18:14:23] <timsf> I like Solaris Express Community Edition
[18:14:37] <timsf> Good point tomww
[18:14:38] <chenggao> sure i know there is no emacs 23 since it's not released. just want to make sure if it can build
[18:14:48] <chenggao> tomww: thanks
[18:15:16] <chenggao> timsf: ok so i'll choose express comminity
[18:15:54] <tomww> chenggao: I would suggst not to re-invent the wheels by compiling everything yourself, have a look at the repository of >650 build-recipes in spec-files-extra on pkgbuild.sf.net
[18:17:20] <chenggao> tomww: thanks. you know i have no idea about opensolaris till now
[18:17:37] <chenggao> tomww: i am just beginning to learn things about it and plan to use it
[18:18:12] 
[18:18:49] <chenggao> tomww: since I use macosx in home computer, i planned to dump Ubuntu from my office laptop and install freebsd, and then i found i can request dvd of opensolaris. so i told myself why not try it
[18:19:21] <chenggao> tomww: i searched freenode and found this channel
[18:19:33] <tomww> well, welcome in the world of (Open|*)Solaris
[18:19:49] <chenggao> tomww: thanks. but not yet a user.
[18:20:03] <chenggao> tomww: today i downloaded and burned belenix
[18:20:09] <chenggao> but it can not boot up
[18:20:14] <tomww> guys here are sometimes a bit wired, but this should be not a problem most times :-)
[18:21:05] <chenggao> tomww: i just need get started and then i can learn things by myself. at first i need someone to give me confidence
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[18:22:09] <chenggao> tomww: i converted some colleague to switch from Windoze to Ubuntu. now i plan to switch off myself.
[18:22:21] <tomww> :_)
[18:23:05] <wesolows> it's amazing how much pain people will tolerate
[18:23:18] <chenggao> tomww: just bored by it. years ago i use gentoo. till now it's the only distro i like.
[18:23:26] <tomww> beware, is there something where you can switch away form from solaris... ?
[18:23:27] <wesolows> if you need proof that humans are irrational, look no further than the continued existence of windoze and ubuntu
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[18:25:09] <chenggao> tomww: i dont know. for home use, macosx. but office laptop has no chance to install macosx.
[18:25:39] <chenggao> wesolows: ? sorry i dont get the picture.
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[18:27:35] <CrashandDie> chenggao: I just kicked gentoo out of my laptop
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[18:27:54] <chenggao> CrashandDie: why? bored?
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[18:28:04] <CrashandDie> yeah
[18:28:23] <CrashandDie> just got sick of always having to check wether the emerge --sync && emerge -uDv world worked out correctly
[18:28:46] <CrashandDie> always having to unmask packages, always having to google to know why this or that wouldn't work anymore
[18:29:10] <CrashandDie> get on IRC, and then hear someone say "it's just outdated, we removed"... And then they're like yelling everywhere they respect the liberty of choice of the final user
[18:29:13] <chenggao> CrashandDie: hehe. The reason I want to switch is mostly inconsistence between GNU/Linux distros. this sometimes makes me a little sick
[18:29:46] <CrashandDie> chenggao: well, I'm talking to you from a debian server
[18:30:07] <CrashandDie> chenggao: and debian is probably the distro I feel the most comfortable with at this point
[18:30:10] <CrashandDie> (even in text mode :D)
[18:30:27] <chenggao> CrashandDie: why not ubuntu?
[18:30:38] <CrashandDie> because I don't need/like it ?
[18:30:47] <CrashandDie> why would I use ubuntu for a headless server ?
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[18:31:14] <chenggao> CrashandDie: i do think Ubuntu is a good distro. Easy to use it to persuade friends to dump Windoze
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[18:31:38] <CrashandDie> yeah sure, I'm a student, studying a 2 year computer science degree
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[18:31:56] <CrashandDie> When we arrived, all the teachers were like jumping on tables and yelling "MANDRIVA FTW !"
[18:32:02] <chenggao> CrashandDie: its installation makes Windoze prisoners more confortable and confident
[18:32:09] <CrashandDie> and they were all disgusted by how bad mandriva sucked
[18:32:38] <CrashandDie> now with ubuntu gg, I think I've managed to get a few to test it out...
[18:33:12] <CrashandDie> we'll see, but I'm not going to waste my time trying to get people to switch to Linux...
[18:33:40] <chenggao> CrashandDie: At least for dell laptops, Ubuntu (dapper/feisty/gutsy) supports all equipments out of the box. no need to configure anything manually
[18:34:03] <chenggao> CrashandDie: this is why I converted my colleague so easily
[18:34:25] <CrashandDie> They'll get to it eventually, they have to... Most of them are ssh'ing into one of my boxes in order to work for school, they just don't see the point in having a dual boot system
[18:34:52] <chenggao> CrashandDie: if they have zero experience of some linux distro, they may be scared by opensolaris and freebsd etc
[18:35:30] <chenggao> CrashandDie: i persuaded my colleague to install Ubuntu in dual boot mode
[18:35:51] <chenggao> and days later he reinstalled and dumped windoze
[18:35:52] <CrashandDie> well, they don't need a lot do they ? ftp client, or nfs via ssh, and gcc... But the clusters they're using are running debian
[18:36:13] <CrashandDie> (linux primitives and C, and all that)
[18:36:14] <chenggao> and installed virtualbox for occasional use of windoze
[18:36:38] <CrashandDie> but you know, I still have a copy of Windows on my laptop
[18:36:46] <CrashandDie> it's just for gaming purpose, but it's there
[18:37:10] <CrashandDie> I'm not going to kick one of my boxes in the guts just by trying to get whatever game working with wine/cedega
[18:37:16] <CrashandDie> there's no point...
[18:37:17] <chenggao> CrashandDie: sure it's much different experience. suddenly he found he can use ssh/scp instead of slow ftp
[18:37:33] <CrashandDie> chenggao: hehe :)
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[18:37:36] <chenggao> CrashandDie: virtualbox works well
[18:37:43] <CrashandDie> chenggao: not for games, does it ?
[18:38:13] <chenggao> my colleague plays games in virtualbox windoze machine
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[18:39:09] <chenggao> CrashandDie: personally i think virtualbox is fast enough. sure i have no idea about 3-d games. I never play games
[18:39:10] <CrashandDie> chenggao: what kind of games ?
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[18:39:34] <chenggao> something like warcraft or wow?
[18:39:35] <CrashandDie> chenggao: right, I'm talking about quite high end games here
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[18:39:53] <CrashandDie> chenggao: yeah, sure, wow, but also, tf2, hellgate:london, etc
[18:40:05] <chenggao> CrashandDie: em then the best you use dual boot
[18:40:15] <CrashandDie> chenggao: I know :)
[18:40:22] <chenggao> CrashandDie: i never worry about this since I dont play games
[18:40:45] <chenggao> CrashandDie: too old for games :-P
[18:41:21] <CrashandDie> chenggao: you're never too old for games
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[18:41:24] <tsp> I want to move to ubuntu and run windows in a vm
[18:41:27] <chenggao> CrashandDie: I just wanna choose a stable and enjoyable os and then keep using it
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[18:41:37] <tsp> ubuntu for gnome and orca, so the box can talk
[18:41:48] <CrashandDie> chenggao: my english teacher, who is 58, has a PS3 and plays every minute he can
[18:42:07] <tsp> then run opensolaris in xen ontop of linux
[18:42:08] <CrashandDie> chenggao: yeah, that's my opinion too
[18:42:09] <chenggao> hehe. kul guy
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[18:42:38] <chenggao> i plan to buy a macbook or macbook pro
[18:43:10] <chenggao> and then may buy Parallel Desktop (VM app on MacoSX)
[18:43:30] <chenggao> then I may try several OSes in it
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[18:44:00] <CrashandDie> chenggao: I've been using VMWare Player for the last couple months
[18:44:09] <chenggao> I know a guy got 12 OSes installed in it including opensolaris IIRC
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[18:44:44] <chenggao> CrashandDie: I can not accept its speed. too slow for me. Maybe because I only got 512m memory
[18:44:52] <chenggao> virtualbox is better
[18:45:04] <CrashandDie> chenggao: I have 4Gigs of memory, no speed problem
[18:45:12] <chenggao> wow!
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[18:45:41] <Triskelios> damn, dude
[18:45:46] <CrashandDie> though, 4gigs of memory on a laptop is *expensive*
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[18:45:58] <chenggao> it's not expensive
[18:46:04] <chenggao> it's luxious
[18:46:29] <CrashandDie> yeah, maybe
[18:46:42] <CrashandDie> but well, it was only one grnat
[18:46:51] <CrashandDie> G
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[18:48:23] <Triskelios> ...
[18:48:31] <tsp> I would use virtualBox, but it uses qt so won't talk
[18:48:32] <chenggao> how big is Nevada CD?
[18:48:50] <chenggao> seems I need wait for 2-4 weeks for starter kit
[18:49:00] <tsp> chenggao: that thing is old last time I checked
[18:49:01] <chenggao> I may download one
[18:49:03] <Triskelios> chenggao: you mean the indiana live CD or current nevada DVD?
[18:49:04] <e^ipi> nevada is a single DVD or 6 CD's
[18:49:17] <chenggao> jeez!
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[18:49:35] <e^ipi> it's a modern OS, it comes with a lot of stuff
[18:49:36] <chenggao> Triskelios: I have no idea. just the cd listed on opensolaris.org
[18:49:42] <estibi> chenggao: > l -h sol_nv_b75a_x86_dvd.iso
[18:49:43] <Triskelios> the DVD is 3.6G
[18:50:10] <chenggao> is it possible to download only minimal system and get os installed
[18:50:15] <Triskelios> interesting, 75a shrunk  a bit..
[18:50:20] <chenggao> then install packages i choose manually?
[18:50:31] <Triskelios> chenggao: not currently, you have to download the whole image
[18:50:40] <CrashandDie> chenggao: why so afraid of a 3.5gig download ?
[18:50:50] <Triskelios> CrashandDie: it takes hours
[18:50:53] <chenggao> I am really confused about distro of opensolaris
[18:51:01] <CrashandDie> Triskelios: what kind of connection are you on ?
[18:51:16] <CrashandDie> Triskelios: takes about 10 minutes at my place
[18:51:21] <chenggao> CrashandDie: I am not sure the connection speed of opensolaris download site
[18:51:31] <Triskelios> CrashandDie: OC48
[18:51:38] <chenggao> today I downloaded freebsd from a Chinese mirror
[18:51:38] <Triskelios> university network
[18:52:05] <chenggao> the speed is about 1m/s so it's doable for me
[18:52:08] <CrashandDie> hey, something just popped into my mind
[18:52:22] <CrashandDie> you know my problem with the wpi driver (wifi), being that it gets dhcp ip and dns servers
[18:52:38] <CrashandDie> couldn't it be that it awaits something like, I dunno, hostname or something ?
[18:52:39] <Triskelios> dhcp has nothing to do with the driver
[18:53:08] <CrashandDie> Triskelios: well, this is my problem: it gets dhcp ip address and dns servers, but I can't even ping machines on the subnet
[18:53:16] <Triskelios> chenggao: the indiana preview (1 CD) will be released later this month
[18:53:59] <Triskelios> CrashandDie: then the DHCP information is incorrect or not acted upon
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[18:54:36] <chenggao> Triskelios: good. Then I'll wait. I found I have to register first at sun.com to download.
[18:54:39] <CrashandDie> Triskelios: the DHCP information is correct, it works for all my other 10+ machines
[18:55:20] <CrashandDie> Triskelios: and the information is taken into account, the routes are built and ifconfig shows correct info... /etc/resolv.conf gets updated accordingly too
[18:56:21] <tsp> from what I understand, indiana will be released, SXCE will die, and updates will be every 6 months - won't that be bad?
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[18:58:04] <chenggao> jeez there is starter kit/belenix/martux/nexentaos/schillix
[18:58:05] <Triskelios> tsp: no, that's perfectly fine. a new image goes out every 6 months, but with img(5) the updates are pushed out over the network
[18:58:12] <chenggao> i am confused
[18:58:17] <Triskelios> chenggao: there are many distros
[18:58:53] <Triskelios> chenggao: SXCE is the Sun-supported one and generally the most bleeding-edge
[18:58:56] <chenggao> is it possible I install any of them and then upgrade to express ce from within?
[18:59:22] <Triskelios> no, they have completely different layouts
[18:59:32] <chenggao> just like what linux distro/freebsd does?
[18:59:44] <Triskelios> yes
[19:00:06] <chenggao> so the choice should be sxce? i hate to register for downloading
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[19:00:19] <chenggao> anyway it doesnt matter. i can register
[19:00:32] <chenggao> so i have to download all 6 cds?
[19:00:33] <e^ipi> and sun hates violating export regulations, so that's why you have to register
[19:00:48] <Triskelios> most people get the single DVD
[19:00:53] <CrashandDie> export regulations ? What the hell is that ?
[19:00:58] <chenggao> i am from China. is  it a problem?
[19:01:11] <Triskelios> CrashandDie: ... for crypto
[19:01:27] <e^ipi> CrashandDie: so the dirty soviets don't get our secrets.
[19:01:30] <chenggao> seems many state-of-the-art things are not allowed for exportation to my country
[19:01:54] <chenggao> I can not burn dvd so i have to use cd
[19:02:05] <CrashandDie> chenggao: you already downloaded FreeBSD, you're on the top 5 most dangerous criminal list now in China
[19:02:19] <chenggao> ??? really?
[19:02:28] <Triskelios> chenggao: I think there are few actual restrictions on where you can download SX from (a lot of SX development actually happens in China)
[19:02:31] <chenggao> freebsd is super free as i know
[19:02:48] <Triskelios> chenggao: but some regulations mean Sun still has to keep track
[19:03:09] <chenggao> does starter kit include sxce?
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[19:03:22] <Triskelios> yes, but probably an old version
[19:03:47] <chenggao> if so i'll wait. i requested starter kit already. can this old version be upgraded? my understand is the answer is yes
[19:04:03] <Triskelios> yeah
[19:04:12] <chenggao> i think i can build kernel and then install packages by myself
[19:04:31] <chenggao> i may not need those packages on dvd
[19:04:40] <chenggao> i like to install only what i need
[19:05:02] <Triskelios> you normally don't need to build ON/kernel unless you're working on ON code or need a specific fix
[19:05:19] <chenggao> but you said it's old?
[19:05:36] <chenggao> old packages you mean?
[19:05:50] <Triskelios> old everything
[19:06:09] <Pietro_S> !
[19:06:10] <Triskelios> this is not freebsd; the kernel is a set of packages as well
[19:06:27] <chenggao> oh! i need wash my brain
[19:07:08] <Triskelios> Pietro_S: yes, I'm simplifying a bit...
[19:07:18] <chenggao> ok i'll wait for my kit since it includes sxce
[19:07:42] <chenggao> i wish indiana steps out the soonest
[19:07:53] <Triskelios> the important snag is that indiana won't support upgrades from sxce
[19:08:00] <chenggao> then there is no confusion about distros
[19:08:19] <chenggao> arh!
[19:09:01] <chenggao> seems i have too many linux/freebsd things in my mind.
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[19:10:15] <Triskelios> sxce should still be supported until the first real indiana release, probably march next year
[19:10:49] <chenggao> you said indiana preview is soon out?
[19:11:00] <chenggao> and is it upgradable?
[19:11:36] <Triskelios> indiana preview should be upgradable to the final release
[19:11:54] <Pietro_S> Triskelios: sry, I wrote '!' by misclick - I have czech keymap on keyboard, which makes me doing stupid things :(
[19:11:59] <Triskelios> but you can't convert sxce to indiana
[19:12:02] <chenggao> good news
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[19:12:30] <Pietro_S> chenggao: if you are new to OpenSolaris, indiana preview is *NOT* for you
[19:12:39] <chenggao> why?
[19:12:54] <chenggao> am i so special? :-D
[19:13:14] <Pietro_S> there will be lot's of bugs/problems
[19:13:56] <Pietro_S> technical preview is for people which wants hunt this bug or they are working on some part of indiana
[19:14:19] <chenggao> Pietro_S: en it's real problem.  I am not afraid of bugs/problems. just i mean to use it for work so stability is important
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[19:15:54] <chenggao> so sxce is stable enough for work use? if so i'll use it
[19:16:26] <e^ipi> joyent among others have it deployed in an enterprise setting
[19:16:59] <chenggao> in fact my use case is very simple
[19:17:10] <chenggao> just gnome/openoffice and emacs
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[19:18:01] <Pietro_S> sxce is stable enough
[19:18:10] <Triskelios> I use it every day on my laptop
[19:18:13] <chenggao> good
[19:18:55] <chenggao> so sxce. i can use it as starter and learn things.
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[19:19:40] <Pietro_S> chenggao: yep, I also use it on daily bases...
[19:20:38] <chenggao> where is the handbook of opensolaris?
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[19:20:48] <e^ipi> docs.sun.com
[19:20:51] <chenggao> about configuration and everyday jobs
[19:20:52] <CrashandDie> deather_: salut !
[19:20:56] <chenggao> thanks
[19:20:57] <tomww> could we count the number of hours in operation on our notebooks? I should have approx 6000-10000 hours on the counter....
[19:20:58] <e^ipi> theres's no "handbook"
[19:21:09] <e^ipi> but the sysadmin collection for solaris 10 is pretty good
[19:23:10] <Triskelios> tomww: well, I've had my laptop for approx 11 months, and use it 40 (100 if you count the time it's just left on) hrs a week on average... so
[19:25:47] <Pietro_S> tomww: I just got nobebook from warranty repair (they changed motherboard + disk) so I guess that before it, I used it too much and right now I have few hours on counter (trying to install sxce 75)
[19:27:54] <tomww> hmm. we could build a SFEcountoperationshours and let it do this work :_)
[19:29:10] <Triskelios> my hard drive's counter is probably a good substitute
[19:32:07] <chenggao> thanks friends. i need disappear now.
[19:32:21] <CrashandDie> You going to do the crazy Wong trick ?
[19:32:28] <chenggao> I'll bug you when I got my kit and start to use it
[19:32:47] <chenggao> bye everyone
[19:32:50] <CrashandDie> cheers
[19:32:52] <CrashandDie> have fun
[19:33:13] <chenggao> thanks
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[19:40:15] <CrashandDie> I could still use some help trying to get this wifi connection working...
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[19:40:55] <RealWickedWicky> HONEY! I'M HOME!
[19:41:31] <CrashandDie> wb
[19:41:53] <RealWickedWicky> thanks
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[19:42:06] <RealWickedWicky> what's the name of that weird series anyway? with that dinosaur family
[19:42:11] <RealWickedWicky> hello boyd
[19:42:19] <CrashandDie> the flinstones ?
[19:42:24] <RealWickedWicky> no..
[19:43:11] <CrashandDie> I have no idea what you're talking about then
[19:43:14] <seanmcg> with 'not-the-papa' ?
[19:43:33] <RealWickedWicky> I think it's called "Dinosaurs" actually
[19:43:52] <e^ipi> it's 'not the mama' and yes, it's dinosaurs
[19:44:06] <RealWickedWicky> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaurs_(TV_series)
[19:45:54] <e^ipi> that was a great show, too bad they canned it
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[19:46:21] <RealWickedWicky> yea :( I loved it
[19:47:21] <seanmcg> yarihm, twas good.
[19:47:26] <CrashandDie> Help !
[19:47:35] <seanmcg> yes even damn tab completion
[19:47:57] <RealWickedWicky> when I was young (I still am but hey) we used to watch Sky Channel every saturday morning, show called "Fun Factory" with Crocker and Snoot
[19:48:37] <CrashandDie> if under Linux my windows partition is /dev/hda2, what is the equivalent in Solaris, and how would I mount it ?
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[19:49:16] <RealWickedWicky> lemme find you a link
[19:49:26] <CrashandDie> sure
[19:49:31] <CrashandDie> love to surf the web under console xD
[19:49:39] <e^ipi> CrashandDie: probably something like c0d0s3
[19:49:59] <e^ipi> format(1M)
[19:50:03] <RealWickedWicky> no..
[19:50:14] <RealWickedWicky> http://blogs.sun.com/moinakg/entry/mount_and_access_ntfs_and
[19:51:46] <SYS64738> is there the way to instal CDB_File (perl module)  ?
[19:51:51] <RealWickedWicky> it's something line c0d0p1
[19:52:49] <Triskelios> SYS64738: just use the normal module build stuff or cpan if there isn't a package
[19:53:36] <SYS64738> Triskelios, I don't reach with cpan it search for cc instead gcc
[19:53:49] <RealWickedWicky> ah yes, here it is
[19:53:50] <RealWickedWicky> http://www.genunix.org/distributions/belenix_site/?q=download
[19:53:55] <Triskelios> SYS64738: install studio or tweak your perl config
[19:53:59] <RealWickedWicky> go to the bottom, Miscallaneous Downloads
[19:54:03] <Triskelios> FSWfsmisc has the ntfs (and ext2) driver
[19:54:12] <RealWickedWicky> you will need the misc and partd package
[19:54:17] <RealWickedWicky> exactly that Triskelios :)
[19:54:20] <SYS64738> Triskelios, thanks
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[19:54:36] <CrashandDie> RealWickedWicky: I need to download stuff ?
[19:54:52] <RealWickedWicky> yea, you need to download the packages
[19:54:55] <RealWickedWicky> it's very simple
[19:55:00] <CrashandDie> well, no
[19:55:01] <Triskelios> CrashandDie: yeah, there's no included NTFS driver
[19:55:10] <CrashandDie> cuz I have no connectivity on the solaris box
[19:55:17] <CrashandDie> I'm still trying to figure out how to get online
[19:55:27] <RealWickedWicky> put it on a USB stick
[19:55:46] <estibi> how can i recreate slice 8 (tag - boot) ?
[19:56:05] <CrashandDie> well I'd first want to get internet running before I mess around with the box
[19:56:23] <CrashandDie> Triskelios: thanks for the links though, they're bookmarked
[19:56:30] <Triskelios> estibi: on x86, it's cylinder 0
[19:57:02] <Triskelios> CrashandDie: so you have correct routes and DNS and no connectivity?
[19:57:08] <CrashandDie> So, lemme get this straight, my wifi interface, wpi0 manages to authenticate with the AP, and get DHCP info, but I can't even ping the router
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[19:58:04] <CrashandDie> Triskelios: yeah, everything seems fine, I just don't get...
[19:58:15] <CrashandDie> Triskelios: routes are good, dns is good
[19:58:50] <estibi> Triskelios: yes, but LU crashed and now i have:
[19:58:52] <estibi>   8 unassigned    wu       0                0         (0/0/0)             0
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[19:59:28] <CrashandDie> Triskelios: say, what do you have in resolv.conf ?
[19:59:30] <Triskelios> estibi: so the correct size is 1c, label it "boot"
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[19:59:57] 
[20:00:06] <Triskelios> CrashandDie: I don't see how that's relevant to you... domain it.johnshopkins.edu nameserver 128.220.1.75 nameserver 162.129.254.231
[20:00:43] <CrashandDie> well, in my resolv.conf, I only have nameserver xxx nameserver xxx, I don't have the domain line
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[20:01:05] <Triskelios> your DHCP configuration doesn't necessarily include one
[20:01:17] <CrashandDie> true
[20:01:35] <CrashandDie> aaargh, I'm going crazy here !
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[20:01:47] <Triskelios>  dhcpinfo -i wpi0 DNSdmain
[20:02:03] <Triskelios> anyway, if you're using a laptop just enable nwam
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[20:05:58] <l1s> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2K-tENbs2Q
[20:05:59] <estibi> btw, installboot is little outdated in snv74, /usr/platform/platform-name/lib/fs/ufs doesn't exists anymore
[20:06:01] <l1s> i need to join slackware
[20:06:25] <estibi> s/installboot/man installboot/
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[20:06:52] <CrashandDie> Triskelios: nwam ?
[20:07:01] <Triskelios> CrashandDie: man nwamd
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[20:08:01] <e^ipi> l1s: meh, linux is linux
[20:08:11] <e^ipi> and it's not very good in any of it's incarnations
[20:09:40] <CrashandDie> OH MY GOD
[20:09:45] <l1s> hm, i live for the moment now...
[20:09:49] <CrashandDie> enabling nwam and everything worked :/
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[20:11:47] <h3sp4wn> depends for what (The amount of hassle I have just gone through to get - SXDE and just get it built with the commercial oss drivers , get rhythmbox to actually work and the flac plugin (none of the CE's b72+ work with my sata dvdrom) - never had that much hassle with linux multimedia for ages (but zfs (now) and dtrace (later)) will make it worth it
[20:12:41] <e^ipi> so what, opensolaris is only 2 years old
[20:12:52] <e^ipi> when linux was 2 years old, it wasn't even installable
[20:13:09] <e^ipi> hell, when linux was 10 years old it was barely still useable
[20:13:27] <e^ipi> things take some time to get kinks ironed out
[20:13:35] <tsp> linux multimedia is a joke
[20:13:36] <l1s> hm, how small could you make dos?
[20:13:50] <tsp> l1s: freedos can fit on a floppy
[20:14:20] <l1s> hm, ms ls is 10kb...
[20:14:30] <l1s> hmmmmm
[20:14:55] <e^ipi> you could write an operating system with comparable features in a weekend, tbh.
[20:15:20] <l1s> http://www.skr-clan.de/lis/pic/stgt_pan_night.jpg
[20:15:29] <e^ipi> in fact, for that matter you could write an operating system similar to dos but with real preemtive multitasking and virtual memory in about a weekend
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[20:16:31] <l1s> geos
[20:16:44] <wesolows> Solaris is more than just installable or usable, it's used in countless extremely critical environments by some of the world's most demanding customers
[20:17:28] <l1s> you do need 2 sides
[20:17:30] <l1s> every time
[20:17:34] <l1s> or it will not work
[20:17:35] <wesolows> Saying it's somehow inferior to GNU/Linux because someone gave you some poorly-written software designed for a different environment and you had trouble getting it to work on Solaris...madness...
[20:17:40] * wesolows shakes head
[20:18:15] <e^ipi> no you don't. desktop should play second fiddle to enterprise always. if you can make it good on the desktop without sacrificing large deployments, awesome. Linux fails at this
[20:18:39] <wesolows> besides, Solaris works fine as a workstation
[20:18:45] <wesolows> I'm using it that way right now.
[20:18:46] <l1s> hmmm thought about school
[20:19:29] <e^ipi> i use it on my desktop, and it works fine
[20:19:34] <wesolows> Try getting some random command from ON usr/src/cmd to build on GNU/Linux sometime.  It's the same thing - people who wrote the software you mention gave at most lip service to portability and probably rarely if ever test on Solaris.
[20:19:46] <e^ipi> since suspend-to-ram just integrated this week, it should be good for laptops too
[20:19:51] <wesolows> Your gripe is with their software, not Solaris.
[20:20:45] <h3sp4wn> wesolows: So SXDE should not be tested so that those bugs are not in it ? (perhaps its unimportant) eitherway I have fixed it now (and am perfectly happy with it)
[20:21:16] <wesolows> If there are bugs in SX then they should be fixed.
[20:21:23] <wesolows> If there are bugs in other software, those should be fixed too.
[20:21:28] <tsp> wesolows: How do you deal with no more than one console?
[20:21:34] <e^ipi> screen
[20:21:34] <wesolows> But we're only here to worry about our bugs. :-)
[20:21:44] <l1s> hm
[20:21:47] <wesolows> tsp: There is by definition only one console in any Unix.
[20:21:54] <wesolows> tsp: If you mean more than one terminal, screen.
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[20:22:35] <tsp> screen works, unless something screws up your console to the point of its terminal settings needing a reset from somewhere else
[20:23:27] <wesolows> What would be nice is for SFW or some other consolidation that is like ON to contain well-integrated software that does some of the things "desktop" users want.  That should be written, integrated, and tested with the rest of OpenSolaris by OpenSolaris engineers in OpenSolaris consolidations.  Such an exercise could provide a lot of value.
[20:24:02] <CrashandDie> I'll be back in a bit
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[20:24:10] <wesolows> And it couldn't possibly harm "enterprise deployers" because those binaries could either not be installed there or would just take up a small amount of disk space doing nothing.
[20:24:46] <wesolows> But it seems people prefer the instant gratification of dorking with autoconf arguments to build SFE packages instead.
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[20:26:22] <axisys> how do I change the SP password from OS on a X4200 ?
[20:26:35] <wesolows> axisys: man ipmitool
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[20:29:30] <axisys> ipmitool user list gives me
[20:29:33] <axisys> Get User Access command failed (channel 14, user 1): Invalid data field in request
[20:29:46] <axisys> ipmitool user list 1 worked
[20:30:17] <wesolows> ipmi is a strange beast
[20:30:47] <axisys> i am in.. were able to change the passwd
[20:30:49] <axisys> thanx
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[20:34:10] <CrashandDie> Hey, do I have to register my Solaris install ? I'm trying to login through the Sun Update Manager, but it yells at me, saying it couldn't login with Cacao
[20:36:36] <estibi> CrashandDie: do you have solaris10 or solaris express?
[20:37:01] <estibi> you can only register solaris 10
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[20:41:59] <CrashandDie> estibi: I have SXCE
[20:42:07] <CrashandDie> estibi: how do I kill the update manager then ?
[20:42:37] <CrashandDie> estibi: does this mean I have to re-download/reburn/reinstall the new version each time they come out ? No means to update ?
[20:43:09] <cmihai> Use Upgrade or LiveUpgrade.\
[20:43:14] <estibi> there are no updates for solaris express
[20:43:24] <estibi> use LU like said cmihai
[20:43:49] <cmihai> CrashandDie, http://unixsadm.blogspot.com/2007/08/liveupgrade-sxce.html - use LU, it's the best way to upgrade between SXCE (or Solaris) releases.
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[20:46:09] <CrashandDie> I'm a complete noob, eh, thanks for bearing with me
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[20:59:58] <CrashandDie> how do I check if my system is up to date ?
[21:00:05] <CrashandDie> Is there any such tool ?
[21:00:21] <l1s> package manager?!?
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[21:00:27] <cmihai> cat /etc/release
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[21:00:34] <cmihai> If it's not the same as the latest SXCE
[21:00:37] <l1s> ls /var/log/packages
[21:00:38] <cmihai> that is 75a
[21:00:41] <cmihai> it's not up to date.
[21:00:56] <cmihai> There are no patches for SXCE>
[21:01:01] <CrashandDie> ok
[21:01:06] <cmihai> It makes no sense, a new one comes out every 2 weeks.
[21:01:12] <CrashandDie> right
[21:01:41] <cmihai> CrashandDie, read http://unixsadm.blogspot.com/2007/08/getting-detailed-system-information-on.html for the other stuff, grep showrev
[21:01:45] <cmihai> But that's mostly for Solaris 10
[21:01:50] <l1s> need bandwidth?!?
[21:02:06] <CrashandDie> l1s: ?
[21:02:17] <l1s> for opensolaris?!?
[21:02:25] <cmihai> l1s, what?
[21:02:32] <l1s> why not?!?
[21:02:43] <l1s> hmmm
[21:02:48] <cmihai> English, do you speak it?
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[21:04:48] <l1s> damn that takes another 9 hours
[21:05:36] <l1s> hmmm
[21:05:53] <CrashandDie> l1s: what the hell are you talking about ? :D
[21:06:00] <l1s> what impresses me most is the system unconfig
[21:06:38] <l1s> i think about nothing
[21:06:40] <l1s> the whole day
[21:06:47] <l1s> neiher do you... so...
[21:06:53] *** hile_ has quit IRC
[21:07:00] <l1s> you need do buy more food
[21:07:07] <l1s> hmmm
[21:07:31] *** kadath has quit IRC
[21:08:16] <l1s> or tekken 3 and loose...
[21:08:57] <l1s> damn, i need to make throught the night today...
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[21:13:18] <l1s> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Model
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[21:17:19] <l1s> amen... tau
[21:17:45] <benr> anyone using xVM in snv_75a?
[21:18:39] <estibi> not yet
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[21:18:53] <movement> yes :)
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[21:19:08] <benr> movement, any luck with it?
[21:19:36] <benr> when i boot xVM it flashes Xen stuff, then shows Solaris booting and just prints ?MI Recieved over and over and over.
[21:19:47] <benr> it chops the first charactor...
[21:20:22] <movement> U40?
[21:20:33] <benr> yes
[21:20:46] <movement> http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6499317
[21:21:02] <movement> still waiting on the BIOS (I think) but there's a simple workaround
[21:22:50] <l1s> hmmmm
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[21:23:38] <benr> ah.
[21:23:45] <benr> lame lame.... fixy fixy
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[21:26:03] <l1s> you use xen?
[21:26:07] <l1s> how fat is it?
[21:27:51] <l1s> can you play 3d games on it?
[21:28:11] <l1s> hmmmm
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[21:29:05] <hali> oink, cheap laptop to run SXCE on, what should i get these days?
[21:29:13] <hali> is acer still the best bet?
[21:29:40] <Spicey> hmmmmmm, i would use dell
[21:29:49] <Spicey> but use hcl
[21:29:55] <Spicey> http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/
[21:30:13] <hali> my old dell 8600 is working perfect
[21:30:19] <hali> but single core is no fun
[21:30:32] <Spicey> but i have spare parts...
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[21:31:18] <Spicey> reseve
[21:31:19] <Spicey> :D
[21:31:48] <benr> yeah!!!
[21:31:59] <benr> movement, you da man....... all fixed and working now. ;)
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[21:32:15] <Spicey> what have you finished?
[21:32:31] <Spicey> got
[21:33:00] <Spicey> hmmm
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[21:33:19] <movement> benr: super.
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[21:33:56] <benr> I need a ZSH Profile Shell...
[21:34:17] <hali> or bash would be nice
[21:34:29] <hali> anything but pfsh would be good actually :)
[21:34:42] <palowoda> considering 6499317 is a dup of 6476572 when is the fix for 6476572 go in?
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[21:36:57] <benr> hali, ZSH is easier than BASH because its not GPL.
[21:37:18] <movement> eh?
[21:37:29] <hali> yes, i remember reading about the bash people didn't like sun submitting patches or something
[21:37:45] <hali> "we have sudo you bitches!"
[21:37:51] <movement> palowoda: I think you can't see that, but there is no fix. it requires the workaround or a BIOS update
[21:38:50] <palowoda> movement: Oh puddles. This is just going to take a lot of explaining for all the BIOS OEM's.
[21:39:58] <movement> palowoda: it's not actually a problem in the BIOS itself, I think
[21:40:03] <movement> I don't know the details.
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[21:40:49] <palowoda> I wonder why the details of bug id 6476572 are not public?
[21:41:24] <movement> it's in a closed category (bios cat)
[21:41:34] <movement> no idea if there's confidential stuff in there
[21:43:15] <palowoda> Ah I see close a bug as a dup related to firmware when it's a software bug.
[21:43:27] <movement> it's not a software bug
[21:44:10] <palowoda> I'm sure the whole firmware industry will get in a tizzy over it.
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[21:45:04] <wesolows> it's not a software bug; why should it be open?
[21:45:08] <movement> palowoda: this is hardly a new situation.
[21:46:06] <palowoda> movement: Your right it's not a new situation for opensolaris.
[21:46:29] <movement> ??
[21:46:44] <palowoda> Same as it ever was.
[21:46:56] <wesolows> your machine is defective; it needs a fix.  Contact your hardware vendor to get that fix.
[21:47:52] <wesolows> If the bug didn't happen to be about Sun hardware you'd never even know about the bug, and the software dupes of it would all be closed/not a bug.
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[21:49:04] <l1s> i live for this moment now
[21:49:31] <wesolows> the moment at which you throw the switch and the doomsday device destroys washington?
[21:49:38] <wesolows> 'cause I've seen that movie too!
[21:49:56] <l1s> imagine you would work in ny and throw your keyboard out the window
[21:49:59] <holcomb> hey i live there
[21:50:15] <l1s> hmmm
[21:50:27] <l1s> high resolution pictures
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[21:54:34] <palowoda> wesolows: I'm not sure it's a hardware issue.  Xen works on the hardware but it's not the Xen from Sun.
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[21:54:53] <wesolows> Sun doesn't sell/ship anything called Xen. :-)
[21:55:02] <FireflyST> I just want them to fix Compiz so it works with the Intel X3100 accelerator
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[21:55:48] <palowoda> Nor do they ship any binary OS called OpenSolaris.  Words are only meant to mean what I say at the time I utter them.
[21:56:24] <Triskelios> FireflyST: eh, it should work fine
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[21:56:31] <wesolows> Thankfully they don't ship anything called OpenSolaris.  I'm prepared to get fired to keep it that way.
[21:56:39] <Triskelios> FireflyST: that's i965 isn't it?
[21:56:51] <movement> palowoda: how did you get Xen to work?
[21:57:09] <palowoda> movement: OpenSuse
[21:57:40] <movement> on a non-M2 U40? really?
[21:57:46] <palowoda> No my laptop.
[21:57:54] <palowoda> Same panic
[21:58:09] <FireflyST> Triskelios: yes
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[21:58:25] <FireflyST> Triskelios: it just hangs though
[21:58:33] <movement> palowoda: so completely irrelevant then.
[21:58:55] <palowoda> what ever
[21:59:37] <CrashandDie> jmcp_, got internet :)
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[22:41:40] <jl> hi everybody!
[22:41:46] <l1s> hi
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[22:43:31] <jl> i want to install Solaris Express Developer Edition 9/07 on a 512RAM laptop
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[22:43:50] <l1s> and you cant load the installer?
[22:44:51] <jl> i can, the problem is that i need a minimun 768 of RAM to install the developer tools!
[22:45:07] <l1s> ??
[22:45:12] <l1s> really, i did not knew that
[22:45:17] <l1s> hmmm
[22:45:44] <quasi> just install without the devtools and add them by hand later
[22:45:49] *** cub- has joined #opensolaris
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[22:46:38] <cub-> any 3510 storage guru here?  I'd like some help on why it's not showing up in my v440's  connected by FC connection.
[22:46:52] <cub-> 3 servers connect to it, only one sees the SAN
[22:46:58] <jl> that's exactly i was thinking to do, but there is something i don't understand the SXDE documentation says i can install Solaris Exprees in a Console way
[22:47:03] <cub-> same solaris 10 update 4
[22:47:18] <quasi> cub-: no luck from fcinfo?
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[22:48:00] <jl> is there any difference beetwen the Solaris Express Developer edition and the Solaris Express?
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[22:48:27] <quasi> jl: ehrm, used to be option 4 on the install menu - just using text instead of gnome for the installer
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[22:48:56] <jl> i guess that Solaris Express doesn't install developer tools but it install additional software?
[22:49:06] <cub-> quasi: cfgadm -al shows  fc-fabric as connected, unconfigured .. i haven't tried fcinfo yet
[22:49:18] <l1s> jl: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/downloads/
[22:49:30] <l1s> you find all information there...
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[22:50:14] <cub-> quasi: is there somewhere on the 3510 that I can define which FC port on the 3510 can be used ?
[22:50:36] <cub-> quasi: because the server connecting to FC2  is the only thing that sees the 3510
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[22:50:54] <flyingparchment> what should i name my SMF properties to be consistent?   <myapp>/someoption?  options/someoption?
[22:50:55] <cub-> then I have  fc0, fc1, fc2 or fc3, fc4, fc5
[22:51:28] <jl> i readed the documentation it says i must install with the console way but just have another question... Solaris Express is identical to Solaris Express Developer Edition except for the developer tools? Solaris Express install some additional software than SXDE?
[22:51:30] <quasi> cub-: cfgadm -c configure <apid>
[22:52:15] <l1s> read what i have written
[22:52:19] <cub-> done that already, quasi
[22:52:20] <quasi> cub-: hrm, possibly - I've only messed with the 3511 and that's been a while
[22:52:22] <l1s> and this http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/specs.jsp
[22:52:48] <cub-> actually, fcinfo hba-port   does show something good.....let me paste it somewhere
[22:52:59] <jl> thanks lls!
[22:53:21] <l1s> for what?
[22:53:22] <quasi> cub-: anyways, fcinfo hba-port and then fcinfo remote-port -p <hba-port-wwn>
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[22:55:29] <cub-> quasi: can you take a peek at this   http://www.pastebin.ca/748464
[22:55:57] <cub-> it sees this online   OS Device Name: /dev/cfg/c0
[22:57:17] <quasi> cub-: fcinfo remote-port -ls -p 210000e08b879d75
[22:57:28] <FireflyST> someone change the topic since b75 is out
[22:57:49] <cub-> ok
[22:59:51] <quasi> FireflyST: It's been out for 2 days
[23:00:32] <FireflyST> so fix the topic
[23:01:14] <quasi> so have a cow
[23:02:58] <FireflyST> *shrug*
[23:03:37] <cub-> quasi:   http://www.pastebin.ca/748467
[23:04:07] <cub-> it's saying some errors Error has occured. HBA_ScsiReportLUNsV2 failed.  reason SCSI CHECK CONDITION
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[23:08:04] <takahide> is there a reason why zsh in b75 has been compiled without largefile support?
[23:09:44] <takahide> I just tried to concatenate two files and got "File to large" but if I change shell to bash it works
[23:10:43] <quasi> cub-: hmmm
[23:10:49] <FireflyST> have you guys ever seen behavior in dladm where it automatically connects to a network, and you tell it to drop and switch to another SSID, and it drops it and goes back to the one it autoconnected to?
[23:11:37] <quasi> cub-: try luxadm -e port
[23:12:15] <quasi> cub-: and then when you find the connected port, you do luxadm -e forcelip <port>
[23:13:46] <kjetilho> takahide: use: | sh -c "cat >foo"
[23:14:01] <kjetilho> now *that* a useless use of cat *and* pipe! :-)
[23:14:40] <kjetilho> btw, did you check if ulimits are different?
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[23:21:53] <takahide> kjetilho: ulimits says 'unlimited'
[23:22:20] <takahide> ulimit even
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[23:32:51] <Fuzzy> does xVM require a VT enabled processor?  I have a pair of ht/xeon's and it just segfaulted after the hypervisor loaded and just after the first posting of the solaris kernel
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[23:42:42] <l1s> wow, streamripper does search for his own port now...
[23:43:13] <l1s> hm :(
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[23:48:22] <Fuzzy> is there a open solaris xen room somewhere?
[23:48:40] <hile_> not that i know of
[23:50:12] <movement> Fuzzy: yes
[23:50:18] <Fuzzy> where would i find that?
[23:50:23] <movement> Fuzzy: as described on our site, irc.oftc.net , #solaris-xen
[23:50:28] <Fuzzy> nice thanks
[23:55:59] <l1s> http://blue-footed-boobies.istheshit.net/
[23:56:04] <Triskelios> Fuzzy: you only need VT for HVM guests, same as regular Xen
[23:56:18] <Fuzzy> that's what i thought
[23:57:14] <Fuzzy> i think it might because I don't have PAE





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