[00:01:18] <Lamia87> anyone?
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[00:43:24] <catena> "libpcre.so.0" ... What library it belong to?
[00:47:39] <timsf> Google tells me it's "CRE - Perl Compatible Regular Expressions"
[00:48:09] <timsf> Doesn't appear on my install of snv_70 from what I can tell.
[00:49:04] <cla> catena: libpcre
[00:49:13] <cla> catena: http://www.pcre.org/
[00:50:48] <catena> oH! perl. this nmap dependency isn't listed in sunfreeware website. tnx :)
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[02:00:32] <SYS64738> for xen like virtualization I must wait for sx75 ?
[02:01:05] <g4lt-mordant> or put it on manually
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[02:02:16] <SYS64738> g4lt-mordant, where can I find some info on this ?
[02:02:17] <SYS64738> that
[02:02:56] <g4lt-mordant> I think FuzzyB is your point of contact on that, since he plays with xen a bit
[02:04:57] <SYS64738> ok
[02:05:03] <SYS64738> now I go to bed
[02:05:04] <SYS64738> bye
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[02:27:20] <FuzzyB> she
[02:27:27] <FuzzyB> g4lt-mordant: ur an ass
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[02:27:36] <FuzzyB> g4lt-mordant: :]
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[02:28:02] <g4lt-mordant> yeah, so what else is new
[02:29:14] <FuzzyB> i haven't got it setup yet
[02:29:22] <FuzzyB> but do you know anything about crossbow?
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[02:39:15] <g4lt-mordant> not horribly
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[03:25:01] <Silveira_Neto> Hi guys. I got the opensolaris developers edition dvd, but it requires minimum 700Mib of ram right? There's some easy way to install this version in a machine with 512Mib of ram?
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[03:27:48] <Triskelios> Silveira_Neto: it will fall back to the text installer which is preferable anyway. any reason you're using SXDE instead of the latest SXCE?
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[03:30:27] <jbk> hello jmcp
[03:30:32] <jmcp> hi there
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[03:30:51] <Silveira_Neto> I has recomended sxde. And anyway I only have the solaris express developer editor dvd here (they shiped it to me), and download other is hard to me. But thanks anyway.
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[03:35:53] <jbk> oh, i just remembered, i need to add something about the non-v8 disassemblers in mdb becoming equivalent.. i believe i left that out of my original writeup
[03:37:33] <jmcp> righto
[03:37:44] <jmcp> I haven't had a chance to do anything over the weekend - travelling to Beijing
[03:37:52] <jbk> np
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[04:35:55] <ZDK``Musashi> ?????? ????, ?????????? ????? ?? ????? ??????: ????? ?? ?????????? ?? Solaris ??-?? ???? ??? ???????????? ?? Java?
[04:36:30] <ZDK``Musashi> ... ? ?????, ????? ?? ??????? :(
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[04:39:11] <jmcp> huh?
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[04:50:38] <fuzzy> How do I go about downloading 75?
[04:51:36] <Triskelios> fuzzy: downloading what? SXCE or ON?
[04:51:43] <fuzzy> ON
[04:51:48] <fuzzy> i guess i don't know what on stands for
[04:51:52] <jmcp> OS/Networking
[04:51:58] <jmcp> it's the abbreviated name for the Consolidation
[04:52:01] <fuzzy> and i went looking to downoad open solaris and i only see 74
[04:52:10] <fuzzy> ah
[04:52:21] <fuzzy> so is there a more direct link to ON 75?
[04:52:50] <jmcp> well, it's source-only outside of Sun at the moment, so you'd download the repo tagged as snv_75 (iirc), and build it yourself
[04:52:58] <Triskelios> jmcp: I don't think capital-C Consolidation is meaningful to most people =P
[04:53:22] <fuzzy> aww
[04:53:30] <fuzzy> is there an iso inside of sun somewhere?
[04:53:36] <jmcp> Triskelios: no, really? :-)
[04:53:47] <jmcp> fuzzy: yes, but you'll have to wait for it to be released externally
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[04:53:58] <Triskelios> fuzzy: yeah, 75a actually...
[04:54:07] <fuzzy> is there a release date for 75 yet?
[04:54:30] <jmcp> I expect it to come out this week, iso-wise
[04:54:46] <fuzzy> alright
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[04:59:41] <axisys> jbk: i see most of those pread calls in ustack looks like this http://rafb.net/p/ngBPXG16.html
[05:03:29] <jbk> hmm.. aio must be turned off then
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[05:04:27] <jbk> that would be one thing to take care of..
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[05:04:57] <jbk> i would look in your oracle config to see if it's being deliberately turned off
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[05:05:17] <jbk> afaik, it should rarely be turned off on any modern version of oracle
[05:06:25] <jbk> if you are running oracle 8 on very old unpatched versions of solaris 8, there is a bug it can trigger, but that was really the last time it should be disabled
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[05:09:39] <axisys> jbk: not sre where in oracle config to look for that.. i will check with our dba tomorrow.
[05:10:05] <axisys> jbk: btw how did u know that aio is turned off from the ustack?
[05:11:12] <jbk> because, if it was turned on, you'd see aio_read or aioread in the stack
[05:11:28] <axisys> i am running oracle 10.2 based on the ps -ef | grep oracle and found this dir /opt/Oracle/product/10.2.0
[05:11:46] <jbk> know the instance name?
[05:11:57] <mlh> ps -ef | grep ora_pmon
[05:12:13] <jmcp> pgrep ora_pmon
[05:12:14] <jbk> look for a .ora file with the SID name in it
[05:12:31] <axisys> i see three instances
[05:12:40] <axisys> sorry four
[05:13:11] <axisys> pgrep ora_pmon OR ps -ef | grep ora_pmon shows four
[05:13:14] <axisys> of them
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[05:13:55] <jbk> look for 'disk_asynch_io = false' in one of those files
[05:14:10] <jbk> my guess is you'll see it in there
[05:14:11] <sleepcat> am i running solaris?
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[05:14:29] <jbk> sleepcat: why are you asking us?
[05:14:36] <sleepcat> just wondering if you can tell
[05:14:43] <jbk> well
[05:14:59] <jbk> the presence of a correct identd response would suggest no
[05:15:04] <jbk> though you can fake it
[05:15:12] <jbk> well wait
[05:15:19] <jbk> they do something screwy with hostmasks on this network
[05:15:25] <jbk> so that might not be applicable
[05:15:34] <sleepcat> how would you be able to tell?
[05:15:49] <sleepcat> i have a modem that runs busybox linux...
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[05:16:08] <sleepcat> which plugs into my computer that is running solaris 10
[05:16:51] <jbk> axisys: find /opt/Oracle -name \*.ora -exec grep 'disk_asynch_io' {} \;
[05:17:14] <sleepcat> ah oracle
[05:17:27] <sleepcat> there is a bug in the installer on solaris 10
[05:17:50] <sleepcat> you have to do sqlplus \a sysdba
[05:17:57] <sleepcat> startup
[05:18:04] <sleepcat> emctl start dbconsole
[05:18:25] <axisys> jbk: found them
[05:18:38] <axisys> jbk: did not see your find command.
[05:18:43] <axisys> jbk: let me find the string
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[05:19:10] <axisys> disk_asynch_io is not there
[05:19:27] <axisys> cd /opt/Oracle/product/10.2.0/dbs
[05:19:34] <axisys> all the .ora files are there
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[05:19:40] <axisys> none has that string
[05:19:42] <jbk> which?
[05:19:48] <jbk> do they contain the names of the sid?
[05:20:42] <axisys> man.. i am sooo clueless.. *sigh*
[05:20:47] <axisys> what is a sid?
[05:20:52] <jbk> instance name
[05:21:21] <jbk> like if you do a ps -ef|grep oracle, you'll see a bunch of 'oracleFOO' processes, FOO is the sid
[05:21:41] <axisys> oh yeah.. i see them
[05:21:42] <axisys> yeap
[05:21:45] <axisys> got it
[05:22:12] <axisys> the instance name is there.. and they matches the the pgrep ora_pmon
[05:22:25] <jbk> so stuff like initSID.ora ?
[05:22:28] <axisys> i meant ps -ef | grep ora_pmon that is
[05:22:33] <axisys> jbk: yes..
[05:22:42] <jbk> what about dbwr_io_slaves ?
[05:23:12] <axisys> jbk: nawp
[05:23:15] <axisys> not there
[05:23:18] <jbk> strange..
[05:23:25] <jbk> something has to be setting it
[05:23:34] <axisys> grep dbwr_io_slaves *.ora shows no output
[05:23:51] <axisys> grep dbwr_io_slaves *ora shows no output eithere
[05:24:42] <jbk> something's messed up there :)
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[05:27:08] <jbk> i'd talk to your dba
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[05:28:05] <axisys> find /opt/Oracle -name \*.ora -exec grep 'dbwr_io_slaves' {} \; gets me nothing
[05:28:18] <axisys> find /opt/Oracle -name \*.ora -exec ls -al {} \; gets me all the ora files
[05:28:31] <axisys> find /opt/Oracle -name \*.ora -exec grep 'disk_asynch_io' {} \; gets me nothing
[05:28:51] <jbk> hmm.. i'd ask your dba to actually check in the running instance
[05:28:52] <axisys> jbk: and ask him to add those parameters?
[05:29:06] <jbk> should just be able to ask him if asynch io is on or off
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[05:29:08] <axisys> jbk: ok
[05:29:15] <axisys> jbk: ok
[05:30:01] <axisys> jbk: so what does async io give me ? does it benefit even for zfs fs? what is recommended setting for async io?
[05:30:14] <jbk> should be turned on in general
[05:30:33] <jbk> basically it allows one to issue an i/o request without blocking
[05:33:01] <axisys> jbk: this url http://blogs.sun.com/glennf/entry/where_do_you_cache_oracle says zfs does not allow async io
[05:33:30] <axisys> jbk: whats your thought on that?
[05:34:31] <axisys> jbk: second paragraph of this section "How do you avoid using buffered IO?"
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[05:35:46] <gdamore> Tempt: you asked about why suspend on U20.  Answer == Energy Star certification, plus overall lower power consumption during idle periods.
[05:36:03] <Tempt> aah
[05:36:15] <Tempt> energy star is a critical one for selling into the US government, right?
[05:36:20] <jbk> axisys: i see that, though i'm confused a bit -- i'm looking at aio.c and see nothing that turns it off for zfs
[05:37:07] <jbk> basically if fd == !raw_device, it just hands off the i/o to a thread to do the pread/pwrite
[05:38:50] <jbk> i.e. if it's any filesystem, i don't see anything that would change behavior for a specific filesystem
[05:40:32] <gdamore> Tempt: yes.
[05:41:03] <gdamore> and E* labelling is important for consumers, as well... some commercial buyers look at it too.  (institutional buyers)
[05:41:35] <axisys> jbk: i guess i should just upgrade the OS from U3 to U4 instead of doing the ztune as suggested here http://blogs.sun.com/realneel/entry/zfs_and_databases
[05:41:52] <gdamore> suspend-to-ram is actually a really really nice feature.  but in any case, its a stepping stone to other features, including laptop suspend resume.
[05:42:25] <gdamore> (there are some OEMs using solaris in embedded applications that demanded this feature as well.  I can't name names though.)
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[05:44:12] <jbk> might help as well
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[05:45:32] <axisys> jbk: i also noticed I need to set the raid controller to ignore the flush write cache
[05:45:53] <axisys> after the zpools are off of 3510
[05:46:25] <axisys> and the 3510 that we are using is not used as jbod but rather has raid controller
[05:46:43] <axisys> s/after/after all/
[05:49:21] <axisys> direct quote from solarisinternals
[05:49:23] <axisys> ZFS performance on databases is a very fast moving target. Keeping up-to-date with Solaris releases is very important
[05:49:27] <axisys> duh! :-)
[05:50:00] <jbk> hehe
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[05:51:25] <axisys> jbk: do u know if I can run ztune inside a non-global zone? or should I need to since oracle is running only w/in a non-global zone
[05:51:38] <axisys> ztune until I upgrade the OS
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[05:56:47] <axisys> looks like I have to wait till sol10u5 for this bug fix http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do?bug_id=6457709
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[07:32:26] <tsp> Are there instructions for checking out ON?
[07:35:49] <e^ipi> hg clone ssh://hg.opensolaris.org/hg/onnv/onnv-gate
[07:35:52] <e^ipi> done
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[07:37:17] <tsp> thanks
[07:37:24] <tsp> opensolaris.org is weird, to say the least
[07:38:38] <GmanAFK> tsp, in what way?
[07:40:00] <tsp> justa bunch of numbered items
[07:44:56] <jmcp> tsp: which page are you looking at?
[07:45:10] * jmcp mutters that of course it's weird, but we're used to it
[07:45:15] <jmcp> :-)
[07:46:06] <tsp> oh, it's lists and headings
[07:46:14] <jmcp> url?
[07:46:19] <tsp> http://opensolaris.org/
[07:46:38] <tsp> once I started up IE, everything sounds better
[07:46:49] <jmcp> eek
[07:47:18] <jmcp> that's rather weird
[07:47:24] <jmcp> I see a three column layout
[07:48:55] <GmanAFK> (fwiw, i'm not a fan of os.o either)
[07:49:04] <tsp> I use a screen reader so everything goes in one column
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[07:55:29] <jmcp> tsp: oh,right
[07:55:35] <jmcp> that'll definitely make things appear different
[07:57:20] <tsp> performing windows updates caused a bunch of things to break realating to IE, but not doing windows updates causes my box to be unstable
[07:59:04] <tsp> I'm waiting for the day I can move my workstation over to linux or solaris and still have the same level of accessibility
[08:00:28] <timely_changelog> hi jmcp, tsp
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[08:01:29] <GmanAFK> tsp, might be good to write up your experiences and post to website-discuss if you had time
[08:01:55] <GmanAFK> tsp, a few people are looking into rewriting bits of the infrastructure, and would probably be interested in knowing what the gotchas are
[08:01:58] <tsp> if I find anyway to make the site better, now that I know how to navigate it, I'll post
[08:02:41] <GmanAFK> tsp, thansk
[08:02:43] <GmanAFK> thanks
[08:02:51] <noyb> not *too* far from the keyboard, eh?   ;-)
[08:04:34] <GmanAFK> ok, time to go install a newer snv...later all
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[08:04:49] <noyb> cya
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[08:13:00] <e^ipi> ugh, this goddamn "gnome-keyring" nonsense that keeps popping up has to die
[08:13:04] <e^ipi> srsly
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[08:14:33] <e^ipi> why isn't there a "deny, go away forever and never pop up again" button?
[08:14:51] <e^ipi> or was that feature removed by GNOME for confusing users like the address bar was
[08:14:59] <e^ipi> </rant>
[08:15:06] <g4lt> yes, no, "begone, foul spawn of satan"
[08:15:56] <e^ipi> actually, I think i'm going to file a regression bug on this one
[08:16:10] <e^ipi> regression "never used to annoy users with stupid keyring bullshit. now it does"
[08:20:18] <e^ipi> there... bug filed
[08:20:45] <e^ipi> now it's glynn's problem ;)
[08:21:01] <e^ipi> oh, he's not even here to tease.. damn
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[08:22:33] <e^ipi> hey, awesome!
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[08:22:53] <e^ipi> Repository: /hg/emancipation/emancipation-gate
[08:22:53] <e^ipi> Latest revision: a21f2449e5f98fc834af53c9c46cf594d69429d7
[08:22:53] <e^ipi> Total changesets: 1
[08:22:53] <e^ipi> Log message:
[08:22:53] <e^ipi> PSARC/2005/469 X86 Energy Star compliance
[08:22:57] <e^ipi> PSARC/2006/632 PSMI extension for state save and restore
[08:23:11] <e^ipi> that just hit my commit email box...
[08:23:19] <e^ipi> looks like onnv-gate can suspend & resume now
[08:24:15] <dlg> why is smpatch so slow?
[08:24:26] <dlg> its seriously the hardest thing some of my boxes ever do
[08:26:15] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[08:26:18] <e^ipi> blame java?
[08:26:48] <dlg> i do
[08:27:34] <dlg> my problem is why does it use java?
[08:28:23] <e^ipi> blame mcnealy?
[08:28:53] <g4lt> dlg, look at the stock symbol for guidance ;P
[08:29:14] <dlg> and i get a ton of this:
[08:29:15] <dlg> Installing updatesInstalling update 126672-01 Failed
[08:29:15] <dlg> Installing update 127716-01 Failed
[08:29:15] <dlg> Installing update 127747-01 Failed
[08:29:15] <dlg> Installing update 126206-03 Failed
[08:29:16] <dlg> Installing update 121428-08 Failed
[08:29:19] <dlg> Installing update 126670-01 Failed
[08:29:22] <dlg> Installing update 127745-01 Failed
[08:29:24] * dlg feel angry
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[08:42:00] <e^ipi> dlg angry... dlg SMASH!!!
[08:42:19] <dlg> its funny cos its true
[08:42:24] <dlg> and someone just stole my desktop
[08:44:05] <ofu> hrhr, now i got encrypted zfs
[08:45:22] <ofu> creating a zpool from a geli-device works fine on freebsd7
[08:55:08] <e^ipi> perhaps you should ask the freebsd people
[08:55:56] <e^ipi> they may be more capable of telling you what freebsd is capable of than solaris people
[08:56:41] <ofu> what should i ask them? it works
[08:56:49] <e^ipi> then there you have it
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[09:12:24] <trochej> Coffee?
[09:12:57] <Tempt> Yes, please.
[09:13:33] * trochej serves one virtuall coffe, one real one
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[09:15:57] * dlg scream at smpatch
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[09:16:33] <Stric> dlg: pca.
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[09:24:48] <Pietro_S> does anybody know where I can find template for OpenSolaris slides?
[09:25:21] <Pietro_S> everyone said that it should be around opensolaris.org, but I can't find it
[09:25:30] <trochej> Pietro_S: Community advocacy
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[09:33:11] <Pietro_S> trochej: thanks
[09:33:45] <WickedWicky> rise and shining everybody!
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[09:35:36] <trochej> WickedWicky: You suggest radioactive materials?
[09:36:46] <WickedWicky> yea that
[09:36:55] <WickedWicky> or a good coffee that makes you glow up, full of energy
[09:37:18] <trochej> :)
[09:38:05] <auto359> anyone here from brisbane australia?
[09:38:48] <dlg> why?
[09:39:00] <auto359> cos i'd like to ask a favour of someone
[09:39:07] <Tempt> He's offering free dinner and drinks for all OpenSolaris contributors up there
[09:39:19] <auto359> haha, free dinner i can do
[09:39:40] <timely_changelog> i've started buying stuff for people who help my group
[09:39:48] <timely_changelog> it's strange to start thinking like a manager
[09:39:54] <auto359> nice concept
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[09:42:29] <Tempt> auto359: Don't ask to ask, just ask and see what happens
[09:43:32] <auto359> sorry, reading elsewhere, i'd like to ask if someone local to grab a copy of solaris developers edition and we can meet up somewhere in Brissy and i can shout them a coffee or a beer or something
[09:44:07] <auto359> i am almost at the end of my data limit and have 8 days until new amount, i couldn't grab 3.4GB if i wanted to
[09:46:50] <quasi> auto359: http://get.opensolaris.org/ is another way
[09:46:59] <Tempt> Not in 8 days it isn't.
[09:47:07] <quasi> true
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[09:47:39] <quasi> it takes time for the dinghy to sail that far ;)
[09:47:46] <auto359> indeed, i have already ordered the freedvd from Mother Sun, but delivery is 2-4 weeks, i really want to ditch linux asap
[09:48:16] <auto359> quasi: thanks for link
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[09:55:29] <jmcp> auto359: dlg might be able to help you ...  I can't but only because I'm in Beijing this fortnight otherwise I'd be happy to
[09:55:53] <auto359> jmcp: cheers, appreciate the offer, how are things over there?
[09:56:07] <jmcp> pretty nice, actually - except for the massive amount of woodsmoke smog
[09:56:15] <dlg> auto359: i have sxce 75a on my desk here
[09:56:24] <jmcp> dlg: no you don't :)
[09:56:36] <dlg> jmcp: there is no spoon?
[09:56:39] <auto359> is there a brissy opensolaris group? i'm looking for one ...
[09:56:46] <jmcp> correct
[09:56:49] <dlg> im supposed to create one
[09:56:50] <jmcp> auto359: not as such, though dlg and I are trying to get one started
[09:56:58] <jmcp> we normally hang out with the humbug folks
[09:57:01] <auto359> jmcp: ah k, neat
[09:57:02] <dlg> yay for jmcp
[09:57:09] * jmcp preens
[09:57:28] <auto359> i have never been there, always wanted to, i live in cornubia
[09:58:53] <auto359> dlg: are you able to help? grab of copy of sxde 9/07?
[09:59:40] <dlg> which arch?
[10:00:14] <dlg> i spose theres only x86
[10:00:16] <auto359> amd64
[10:00:27] <auto359> yeah, supposedly x86 plays all
[10:00:42] <jmcp> yes it does
[10:00:51] <auto359> good
[10:01:00] <jmcp> installer only runs in 32bit on x64, but will boot x64 by default afterwards if the hw is capable
[10:01:00] * dlg start downloading it
[10:01:04] <dlg> should be here in 10 mins or so
[10:01:21] <auto359> wow, you have fast connection
[10:01:28] <dlg> my turn to preen!
[10:01:39] <jmcp> auto359: he's got aarnet2 ooh-haha
[10:01:53] <auto359> dlg: cheers, do you want me to visit you at work etc? you call ...
[10:02:02] <dlg> that would be for the best
[10:02:05] <dlg> otherwise you'll never get it
[10:02:07] * dlg lazy
[10:02:08] <auto359> awesome, i'm stuck with optus
[10:03:00] * jmcp dashes out for a bit
[10:03:43] <auto359> dlg: if you pm me, i'll give you email address and you can let me know where you be
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[10:15:14] <auto359> ah sxde sorted, thanks dlg
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[10:18:19] <WickedWicky> morning cmihai
[10:18:39] <cmihai> Hey :-)
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[10:31:11] <auto359> question: is the new solaris installer going to allow you choose text vs gui install? will it be like most linux installers, fairly straightforward?
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[10:32:29] <kjetilho> and is there any chance the terminal emulation will be improved on x86?
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[10:35:30] <cmihai> auto359, there's always going to be text modes and JumpStards and so on mate.
[10:35:34] <cmihai> kjetilho, what's wrong with terminal emulation on x86?
[10:35:45] <cmihai> You get a bog standard TERM, you don't like that, use screen.
[10:36:30] <auto359> cmihai: k, personally i like text installs, seems more solid and reliable
[10:36:37] <auto359> cmihai: you an aussie?
[10:36:55] <cmihai> Oy, what'day'say now?
[10:37:02] <kjetilho> cmihai: it doesn't scroll, it just starts from the top when it reaches the bottom
[10:37:04] <auto359> haha, er no
[10:37:13] <kjetilho> it's a bit disconcerting to keep track of what's happening
[10:37:34] <WickedWicky> page up works like a charm for me
[10:37:57] <kjetilho> WickedWicky: you're probably doing a serial console install
[10:37:58] <auto359> i hope that solaris can run mrxtv
[10:38:10] <auto359> else /me will weep
[10:38:15] <WickedWicky> yep
[10:38:16] <kjetilho> which means XTerm (or whatever) handles it for you
[10:38:23] <WickedWicky> HyperterminaL!
[10:38:25] <WickedWicky> \o/
[10:38:28] <cmihai> 0_o
[10:38:34] <kjetilho> I'm saddled with some shitty IBM servers which only have virtual KVM
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[10:42:37] <cmihai> Well, once installed you can ssh in from any terminal (putty, xterm, gnome-terminal, whatever). Just use screen if you don't like dtterm or xterm-color. For the local terminal emulators, there's gnome-terminal in base, dtterm from CDE and xterm. There's also mrxvt and friends (urxvt whatever) in blastawave.org repos.
[10:43:03] <WickedWicky> oh jesus christ, this is gonna be ugly..
[10:43:14] <WickedWicky> I have to ask a half day off at work..
[10:43:22] <WickedWicky> for another job interview :P
[10:43:28] <cmihai> Nice.
[10:43:34] <cmihai> I got mine for being sick :-(
[10:43:38] <cmihai> You could get sick :P
[10:43:41] <WickedWicky> *cof*
[10:43:44] <auto359> haha
[10:43:50] <cmihai> That's the spirit!
[10:43:53] * delewis just started at his new job and isn't entitled to days off, yet...
[10:44:16] <cmihai> delewis, how long do they keep you without days off there?
[10:44:17] <WickedWicky> christ, this migraine is killing me
[10:44:20] <WickedWicky> hurt hurt
[10:44:20] <cmihai> It was a long 11 months here :P
[10:44:22] <WickedWicky> :P
[10:44:33] <delewis> cmihai: I'm sure I could go ahead and request, but given I just started... I'd rather not.
[10:44:37] <kjetilho> cmihai: obviously, but we were discussing the installer
[10:44:41] <delewis> it isn't official or anything like that.
[10:44:46] <cmihai> Ah :-)
[10:44:55] <cmihai> kjetilho, well, I hardly think that matters :-).
[10:45:12] <cmihai> It's usually created so it will run under any old serial console thingy
[10:45:13] <kjetilho> cmihai: you are entitled to your opinion
[10:45:21] <cmihai> delewis, so, what are you doing now?
[10:45:56] <delewis> cmihai: operations-type stuff @ FedEx. I'm with the Line Haul group, which is responsible for all of the systems used in logistics.
[10:45:59] <kjetilho> hmm, perhaps I should simply install it in graphical mode, then I get a dtterm with scroll bar
[10:46:10] <delewis> planning flight & ground routes, package sorting, etc.
[10:46:15] <kjetilho> it just feels wrong to do a "graphical" install :-)
[10:46:18] <cmihai> I see...
[10:46:20] <WickedWicky> the installer is designed to fit every page on one screen no?
[10:46:24] <delewis> determining flight crews, etc.
[10:46:27] <cmihai> kjetilho, why not jumpstart the sucker?
[10:46:41] <delewis> I'm basically 200ft or so from 90% of FedEx's critical systems, including FedEx.com
[10:46:46] <cmihai> delewis, I hear they have plenty of Sun machines at FedEx :-)
[10:46:47] <kjetilho> cmihai: I am jumpstarting it, but I want to see what's happening while it's working
[10:46:48] <delewis> pretty cool, actually. :-)
[10:46:51] <delewis> cmihai: you have *no* idea.
[10:46:59] <delewis> we've been purchasing T2000s and E6900s like crazy lately.
[10:47:04] <kjetilho> cmihai: (it crashes somewhere during the installation)
[10:47:07] <cmihai> Neatto :-)
[10:47:08] <delewis> at least 10 or so every month.
[10:47:20] <cmihai> wow :-). That's nice.
[10:47:40] <delewis> we're also a large HP customer... x86 and HP9000.
[10:47:47] <delewis> we have as many HP-UX systems as we do Solaris systems.
[10:47:58] <delewis> that's more on the financial side of things, though.
[10:48:05] <delewis> Line Haul uses Solaris/Sun almost exclusively.
[10:48:20] <jmcp> yawn
[10:48:29] <cmihai> Can't say I mind HP-UX either.
[10:48:32] <kjetilho> whoa, PA-RISC?
[10:48:38] <auto359> jmcp: dlg got me sorted with sxde
[10:48:42] <delewis> kjetilho: Itanic, lately.
[10:48:46] <cmihai> HP9000 can also mean superdome mate...
[10:48:51] <cmihai> They're all Itanic now.
[10:48:53] <jmcp> auto359: cool
[10:48:59] <delewis> I think the last PA-RISC systems we purchased were a bunch of v2500s (the pre-decessor of the Superdome)
[10:49:00] <cmihai> The heavy ass stuff can go 128-way and shit
[10:49:02] <kjetilho> hmm, ok
[10:49:11] <delewis> we've got about 4 or so v2500s doing financials.
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[10:50:15] <auto359> indeed, when you back in .au, do you think there is enough interest to run a opensolaris group in brissy?
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[10:52:12] * jmcp yells
[10:52:34] <jmcp> either my ipod has finally kicked the bucket, or rockbox has killed it
[10:52:40] <jmcp> either way, I got no music right now :(
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[10:52:52] <auto359> jmcp: ghastly!
[10:53:21] <cmihai> jmcp, format it with the iPod tool mate.
[10:53:52] <cmihai> Anything software you do to the bugger should be reversible with the whole software rewrite thingy
[10:53:55] <jmcp> cmihai: and boot windows?
[10:54:04] <cmihai> Or MacOS :-)
[10:54:07] <cmihai> Or would you rather have a dead iPod?
[10:54:12] <cmihai> Than boot Windows...
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[10:54:58] <jmcp> hmmmmmph
[10:55:23] <auto359> someone said the "w" word
[10:55:40] <cmihai> bah
[10:56:11] <trochej> There are situations when Windows is good. Like, playing NWN2, for example :)
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[10:56:34] <auto359> haha, and running google earth *fast*
[10:57:29] <cmihai> Bah
[10:58:09] <auto359> you bah a lot, you are really from nz aren't you?
[10:58:11] <cmihai> I'm kind of sick of Microsoft bashing clubs. It's like 90% of the marketplace, and it's not something you can just ignore. End of story.
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[10:58:22] <GiacoX> hi
[10:58:48] <jmcp> cmihai: booted it into the original ipod firmware, looks like the data is still there
[10:58:52] <jmcp> fortunately ....
[10:58:56] <kjetilho> cmihai: a resistence to running Windows is not bashing
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[10:59:14] <cmihai> Yes, I'm sure to you it's some act of heroic hacker bravery.
[10:59:29] <kjetilho> or even a resistance to rebooting your session.
[10:59:59] <auto359> or a plethora of malware etc ...
[11:00:00] <kjetilho> I really hate to close down all my SSH sessions etc and reboot.
[11:00:05] <cmihai> The only thing that matters is getting the job done.. take a pragmatic approach to things for once...
[11:00:09] <cmihai> auto359, what malware?
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[11:00:30] <cmihai> I haven't met a person with an IQ above 90 that had malware.
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[11:01:41] <RealWickedWicky> wow
[11:01:44] <RealWickedWicky> that went easy
[11:01:56] <RealWickedWicky> a) double click on your teamleader's MSN nick
[11:02:01] <RealWickedWicky> b) ask how is weekend was
[11:02:06] <RealWickedWicky> c) ask for wednesday afternoon off
[11:02:09] <RealWickedWicky> d) get a yes
[11:02:09] <RealWickedWicky> :P
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[11:03:32] <quasi> WickedWicky: shows you how much they depend on you being there ;)
[11:04:10] <cmihai> Well, look at it this way, if you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted :-)
[11:04:12] <cmihai> Or fired :-]
[11:04:15] <WickedWicky> quasi
[11:04:18] <WickedWicky> that
[11:04:18] <WickedWicky> or
[11:04:40] <WickedWicky> another explaination would be: of the 320 hours I can take free anualy I still have... 500 left :P
[11:05:01] <cmihai> They give you fre... erm.. hours?
[11:05:09] <WickedWicky> yea, 24 days a year for holidays
[11:05:19] <cmihai> Erm
[11:05:19] <WickedWicky> I still have my days from this year, half of last year
[11:05:21] <WickedWicky> plus overtime
[11:05:27] <cmihai> 320 hours is 13 days ;-)
[11:05:35] <WickedWicky> then I have more than 320 hours
[11:05:42] <WickedWicky> figures how I keep track of things
[11:05:49] <WickedWicky> this whole "taking a day off" thing is a big euthopia anyway
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[11:06:05] <WickedWicky> cause even when you do take the day off, you get called for "quick questions"
[11:06:26] <WickedWicky> quick being somewhere between 30 minutes and two hours, on a friday while you're watching Orphaned Land live ;p
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[11:06:52] <cmihai> Get a phone, email, VPN and such mate
[11:06:53] <quasi> WickedWicky: yeah, I know the problem with taking time off - I have 6 weeks of vacation to go through every year
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[11:07:13] <WickedWicky> cmihai: I have a UMTS card
[11:07:25] <WickedWicky> but the thing about taking a day off is doing something fun, not work related
[11:08:16] <WickedWicky> like.. um.... yeah.
[11:08:21] <cmihai> Meh, I dunno :-). I kind of mix them together... Getting a nice relaxing day off so I can work :P
[11:08:54] <WickedWicky> HAHA, sometimes I *love* the datacenter, no management stalking you, no marketeer stressing at your desk cause they thought of something impossible
[11:08:59] <WickedWicky> just me and the servers :P
[11:09:28] <WickedWicky> xcept when I start seeing orange lights of course.. that's less fun
[11:09:30] <quasi> WickedWicky: +1 on that after we got wireless coverage
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[11:09:45] <cmihai> Meh, 3G works fine.
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[11:09:57] <cmihai> Though it's kind of OS specific.
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[11:10:21] <WickedWicky> my PCMCIA card wont work under solaris
[11:10:38] <cmihai> USB here, though no drivers either.
[11:10:56] <WickedWicky> actually my whole laptop locks up during boot when an PCMCIA card is in the slot
[11:11:05] <cmihai> Cool
[11:11:10] <WickedWicky> the power service doesnt seem to find it that cool
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[11:20:05] <sotosbri> hello, i am just doing a test. can someone respond back?
[11:20:16] <WickedWicky> your test failed
[11:20:19] <cmihai> you fail
[11:20:27] <sotosbri> thank you
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[11:26:19] <sotosbri> my workstation is based on solaris. everything works just fine
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[11:26:58] <WickedWicky> xcept for your connection
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[11:27:59] <sotosbri> someone write sth...
[11:28:38] <cmihai> sth...
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[11:29:44] <trochej> sth...
[11:35:36] <Pietro_S> is there any nice talking about history of OpenSolaris - aka opening sources?
[11:42:08] * quasi does the "not so happy" dance - 4 different clusters panicking so far this morning
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[11:47:32] <sickness> any livecd to use as a kiosk advice?
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[12:02:43] <WickedWicky> quasi: sucks to be you today
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[12:07:46] <rasputnik> we've got a T2000 that's bleeding memory, and it looks to be the kernel. How do you tell what modules are using the RAM?
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[12:12:58] <trochej> I suspect that dtrace can do this, but I'm not sure how :)
[12:16:56] <rasputnik> trochej: nor me, that's the trouble :) I think it's veritas but I need evidence to beat them with
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[12:18:40] <WickedWicky> see ya all later
[12:18:52] <flyingparchment> rasputnik: in mdb -k, there's a command to show memory use - ::memstat maybe?
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[12:20:52] <timsf> hi all
[12:21:06] <ofu> rasputnik: ::kmastat
[12:21:18] <flyingparchment> yeah, that's the one
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[12:26:59] <rasputnik> flyingparchment: thanks, think my colleague tried that last week but said it was taking 10 minutes to return. I'll tell him to go and get a coffee :)
[12:27:33] <rasputnik> ofu: kmastat? thanks
[12:27:36] * rasputnik googles
[12:28:03] <flyingparchment> kmastat is the one i meant - it should be a fair bit faster than memstat
[12:28:15] <rasputnik> flyingparchment, ofu : thanks both
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[12:39:02] <tsp> I'm having an odd problem: whenever I do "find /usr/bin >/dev/null", I get one or two lines like the following: find: stat() error /usr/bin/psset: I/O error - but nothing is showing up in the logs. Any tips?
[12:39:57] <kjetilho> umount, fsck
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[12:40:45] <tsp> will single user boot do it? It's the rootfs
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[12:41:58] <kjetilho> yes
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[13:02:22] <flyingparchment> what user does sendmail run programs in when forwarded with /etc/mail/aliases?
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[13:24:10] <jamesd> flyingparchment, try it and find out.. a simple script  echo User $UID ; whoami ; id      will give you more than you need
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[13:33:19] <delewis> has anyone tried throwing 146GB disks in an A5200? SunSolve only lists up to 73GB disks as being supported.
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[13:42:30] <kjetilho> "mismatched replication level: both 6-way and 5-way raidz vdevs are present" -- why is this a warning?
[13:43:15] <kjetilho> I have 23 disks to use in the zpool, so it's hard to find a single value :)
[13:43:19] <mlh> I dunno what's funnier; the fact that research.sun.com use php+mysql or that fact that it's broken
[13:43:22] <quasi> delewis: my guess would be that the a5200 spec was written before anyone imagined 146G disks
[13:43:52] <delewis> quasi: yeah, I've found a few links via Google that indicate it'll work fine -- just not supported.
[13:43:59] <delewis> which is what I expected.
[13:44:00] <tsoome1> kjetilho: *never* mix different raids
[13:44:05] <quasi> mlh: that it is broken isn't really funny at all - it's just what you get for using mysql
[13:44:12] <delewis> I'm trying to get rid of a bunch of 18GB disks this A5200 is loaded with.
[13:44:15] <kjetilho> tsoome1: I thought each vdev was independent?
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[13:44:22] <quasi> delewis: perhaps heat could be a problem
[13:44:32] <tsoome1> data is distributed over entire zpool
[13:44:33] <delewis> quasi: true.
[13:44:55] <kjetilho> hmm, so what is optimal for 23 disks, then?
[13:44:58] <delewis> guess I'll have to watch the temperatures closely after I install the drives.
[13:45:01] <mlh> quasi: funny /to me/
[13:45:10] <tsoome1> depends on workload
[13:45:19] <delewis> kjetilho: RAID0+1 and leave one for a hotspare.
[13:45:20] <sponix> delewis: 18G to 146G nice upgrade
[13:45:24] <delewis> sponix: yeah. :-)
[13:45:38] <delewis> I've got a good deal on a lot of 10 146GB disks or 73GB disks.
[13:45:55] <kjetilho> I want small random reads to be fast
[13:46:02] <kjetilho> and RAID0+1 is a bit too expensive
[13:46:03] <sponix> delewis: raid0+1 instead of raidz ?
[13:46:12] <quasi> kjetilho: raid 0
[13:46:15] <kjetilho> hehe
[13:46:25] <tsoome1> well, one thing is what you want to have, another think is what is your actual workload
[13:46:35] <delewis> kjetilho: only way to go if you want reliability and performance. Raid-Z is acceptable if your workload isn't write-intensive.
[13:46:43] <tsoome1> IOPS, bandwith and R/W ratio
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[13:47:03] <kjetilho> actually this is for benchmarking, I was going to see how recordsize influences performance
[13:47:27] <sponix> delewis: yeah, I have 6x 500G for a media box, its almost all read, so raidz is what I plan for
[13:47:36] <tsoome1> storage for some DB?
[13:47:43] <kjetilho> yeah
[13:48:18] <sponix> anyone seen any issues with raidz on SXDE b70 ?
[13:48:50] <sponix> build I plan to use on the Media server box for raidz && samba
[13:49:01] <flyingparchment> so when are 20krpm drives coming out? :)
[13:49:17] <Pietro_S> sxce 75 has delay again? or it is planned to come this Friday?
[13:49:18] <sponix> flyingparchment: I'm still using 5400
[13:49:22] <kjetilho> flyingparchment: Solid State is the way to go
[13:49:51] <asyd> S13
[13:49:52] <asyd> oups
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[13:52:11] <tsoome1> kjetilho: lol, ofc its sexy to have some ssd, but in realily you should kick your programmers to proguce better code, that will save more perfomance than any fancy hw can provide
[13:52:21] <tsoome1> damn typos
[13:52:30] <tsoome1> grrr
[13:52:32] <tsoome1> :D
[13:53:41] <kjetilho> nice for the intent log, though :)
[13:53:58] <kjetilho> and it makes much more sense than wasting energy and heat on 20k RPM disks
[13:53:59] <tsoome1> ofc, it does have its use
[13:54:20] * jamesd waits for harddrives that have dimm slots on them...  tossing a 256MB or 2GB of cashe as needed per drive, gives new life to old hardware  or high end stuff,  even if its just readcache.
[13:54:59] <sponix> jamesd: yeah, they are talking of those as hybrid drives
[13:55:31] <sponix> the have SSD at newegg but god they cost
[13:55:44] <cmihai> jamesd, well, there are some drives you can just put DIMMs in and have a nice 8hour battery backup
[13:56:02] <cmihai> Though technically, it's not a hybrid.
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[13:57:24] <jamesd> ssd those look cool, but really just cache is good enough for desktops...
[13:57:40] <kjetilho> do you really want the cache to be on the disk side?
[13:57:58] <kjetilho> RAID controller side makes sense to me (except with ZFS), but disk?
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[14:01:17] <WickyTrain> it sure adds up to the geek factor
[14:01:26] <jamesd> raid controllers life is limited...   expensive, zfs limits there usefulness, and  adding dimms works everywhere....
[14:01:28] <WickyTrain> and some chicks dig geek guys.. so it might be a win situation
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[14:04:10] <kjetilho> jamesd: I mean "just add RAM to the server" as the alternative
[14:04:42] <kjetilho> but I guess you can use slower and cheaper RAM on the disks
[14:04:49] <jamesd> kjetilho, the more dimms on the motherboard the more expensive it gets... and lots of cpus and mb combos are limited to 4GB
[14:05:13] <kjetilho> and I hear that RAM is a major source of power drain these days since it can't save power during idle.
[14:05:23] * jamesd ordered the memory to max out my  u20 yesterday...  4GB
[14:05:48] <WickyTrain> I only have two banks on my mobo so I am capped to 2GB
[14:06:05] <WickyTrain> anyway, I arrive in utrecht
[14:06:07] <WickyTrain> see ya all later
[14:06:56] <Doc> blah.. my notebook can take 4Gb!
[14:14:05] <flyingparchment> hmm, google cache is useful for reading docs.sun.com
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[14:17:06] <masta> does anybody know about dvd-cover art for opensolaris? Say for example, you own a printer that can print the tops of dvd's... and you thought to do your sxce dvd's with something approximating what comes in the official kit. ??
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[14:18:15] <Doc> cant you download the CD art when you download the DVDs?
[14:18:48] <Doc> in fact, it used to be that you _had_ to download the art and somehow print it onto your Solaris (not Opensolaris) CDs - it was part of the agreement that everyone agreed to but didnt actually read
[14:18:49] <masta> perhaps, I missed something then.
[14:19:46] <masta> ok then, let me see if I can reproduce the covert with the iso download.
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[14:20:00] <masta> /coverart/
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[14:26:09] <masta> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/advocacy/files/os_cd3.jpg
[14:26:45] <masta> quite a bit of the black ink
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[14:27:29] <schily> Be careful, this may get into conflict with I-RAQ, I-RAN, ....I-PHONE
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[14:49:23] <Berny> hmm, would anyone happen to know if mknod is supposed to work in a lx branded zone?
[14:49:37] * Berny gets a operation not permitted
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[14:53:02] <n0rus> Is it possible to change the name of one of my network interfaces from vfe3 to vfe1?
[14:54:15] <Doc> no
[14:56:44] <trochej> In Polish no may mean "yes" :)
[14:57:43] <trochej> But it can also mean "probably" or "maybe"
[14:57:58] <trochej> Depending on intonation :)
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[15:07:41] <Berny> thats a very female language ;-P
[15:08:20] <trygvis> hahaha
[15:08:21] <holcomb> haha
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[15:09:31] <trochej> Berny: :)
[15:09:42] <trochej> Berny: Probably because I spent 3 years studying it :)
[15:10:13] <Doc> "Seriously your Honor, I thought she was speaking Polish!"
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[15:10:32] <trochej> Doc: :)
[15:11:39] <kaiwai> :)
[15:12:11] <sponix> all disks should be scsi
[15:13:13] <jteo> zealot.
[15:13:49] <dlg> sponix: i agree
[15:13:51] <cmihai> All disks should be FC-AL
[15:14:09] <dlg> fc-al is just scsi
[15:14:10] <jamesd> all disks should be mfm
[15:14:22] <cmihai> All zealots should be killed!
[15:14:25] <sponix> why should copying 50G or so of pr0n from one disk to another lag my box !
[15:14:40] <flyingparchment> why does the "postgres" user have the "All" RBAC profile?
[15:14:56] <tsoome1> because this is default setup?
[15:15:07] <flyingparchment> why is it the default setup?  what would it need that profile for?
[15:15:21] <tsoome1> check /etc/security/policy.conf ;)
[15:15:29] <trochej> jamesd: You meant male=female? :)
[15:17:06] <flyingparchment> trochej: i don't see anything relevant there
[15:17:23] <jamesd> MFM - Modified Frequency Modulation
[15:17:56] <trochej> flyingparchment: Me neither, but who cares? :)
[15:18:20] <flyingparchment> hmm, maybe i misunderstand the format of user_attr
[15:18:45] <flyingparchment> no, seems not
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[15:26:25] <flyingparchment> heh, accidentally made my account into a role.. the error you get for that is really non-obvious
[15:27:07] <trochej> Yup?
[15:27:20] <tsoome1> well, in policy.conf the default profile set to all users is Basic Solaris User, so if you check prof_attr, you can see the All is included in this profile;)
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[15:33:53] <Pietro_S> damn ASUS support - they repaired my notebook by nearly completely changing all parts (mother board, disk) but they didn't changed fans ! :( (nearly 3 weeks of repair) , but at least it's working (hopefully cause need to install sxce now) ...
[15:35:15] <rasputnik> flyingparchment: my understanding is that the 'Postgres Administration' role runs all commands as whatever user you currently are (which is 'All'), and the postgres admin commands as 'postgres'
[15:35:29] <rasputnik> see /etc/security/exec_attr
[15:35:30] <flyingparchment> right, i think i misunderstood what All meant
[15:36:07] <rasputnik> RBAC is hard. Until you try to understand SELinux :)
[15:36:51] <trochej> RBAC works
[15:37:40] <rasputnik> trochej: sure, there are just a few interlocking parts and it's not immediately obvious how they all fit together
[15:38:23] <trochej> TRue
[15:40:05] <flyingparchment> is there an easy way to see all profiles i have?
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[15:40:11] <flyingparchment> (to make sure i'm doing this right :)
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[15:40:29] <rasputnik> flyingparchment: the 'profiles' command?
[15:40:42] <flyingparchment> oh, too obvious.
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[15:41:24] <rasputnik> on my laptop i just give myself primary admin, and treat pfexec as passwordless sudo. lazy and ignorant.
[15:41:47] <flyingparchment> there needs to be a pzfsh ;)
[15:41:59] <flyingparchment> er, pfzsh
[15:42:07] <rasputnik> flyingparchment: definitely!
[15:42:29] <rasputnik> would it involve any more than replacing exec with pfexec?
[15:43:02] <rasputnik> yum yum nicotine gum
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[15:47:08] <flyingparchment> possibly it could even be done as a zsh script.. i think it lets you modify the command before it runs
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[15:47:20] <rasputnik> wow, MS just rolled over to the EU: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119304824519766949.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
[15:50:17] <rasputnik> flyingparchment: yeah, that should work.
[15:52:54] <mick_work> hi everyone, i'm familiar w/ HA under Linux, but I'm new to this on solaris - do people use things like heartbeat on solaris too?
[15:53:37] <mick_work> or is there a solaris way of doing things?
[15:53:53] <tfb> There is cluster
[15:54:56] <flyingparchment> sun cluster is like heartbeat
[15:54:59] <flyingparchment> (but more so)
[15:55:46] <tfb> There are at least 2 cluster systems - Sun and VCS.  VCS is (?) more widely used I think.
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[15:58:57] <quasi> I think sun cluster is more widely used than vcs on solaris
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[16:01:16] <rasputnik> I called up for a sun cluster quote the other day and the reseller said Sun only support it id they installed it themselves? Is that right?
[16:01:57] <tfb> quasi: really?  I never see jobs advertised for it.  But my information is pretty tenuous.
[16:02:22] <kaiwai> sounds about right - sun don't want some clueless drongo setting something up then clogging the lines with stupid queries as a direct result of a stupid setup
[16:02:50] <tfb> rasputnik: I'd not be surprised.  These things are complicated
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[16:06:49] <quasi> tfb: part of the problem is that sun will only support a cluster if they set it up or verified it, so there's not that many jobs directly related although there's plenty of solaris jobs where you need to know about using sun cluster
[16:07:54] <kaiwai> on a good side, the nuts who were running Poland were voted out
[16:08:03] <kaiwai> maybe we'll see a repeat in the US
[16:08:27] <tfb> It may differ by region - most of the stuff I see (saw, last time I was looking) was VCS.  But, well, who knows.
[16:09:25] <tfb> Sun cluster is free now of course, not that many people who run it will care *too* much about that I suspect.
[16:10:17] <Pietro_S> tfb: some universities can use it as free software ...
[16:11:42] * tfb thinks: surely the standard university approach would be to cook their own botch using only ideologically sound components
[16:12:15] * tfb ducks
[16:13:29] <kaiwai> hmm, university has lots of postgrad students who can provide cheap/free labour
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[16:25:28] <rasputnik> we're probably going to install it just to use some of the agents, the alternative is writing our own monitors that I'd have to support anyway.
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[16:38:32] <tfb> rasputnik: precisely.  Cooking your own HA system is just insanely hard and boring (I've worked in Linux shops that did this.  I left...)
[16:39:28] <h3sp4wn> Is the version of pkgsrc that belenix is using available anywhere ? (I have minimal requirements but am having a great deal of trouble compiling xine-lib) I need the apps compiled against the sys/soundcard.h from the commercial oss drivers (using envy24 based card)
[16:40:05] <h3sp4wn> (a version of blastwave compiled with the aforementioned soundcard.h would be ok also - or a method to do this)
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[17:19:35] <mick_work> is there a good guide to network interfaces w/ solaris? i looked at "network administartion" info and i haven't found anything. i'd liek to know how it works -- plumbing/unplumbing etc.
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[17:20:24] <mick_work> i tried to STFW, and I've been looking at the docs on sun.com and i haven't found anything
[17:20:43] <mick_work> http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/content/networkperf/ <--- nothing in there
[17:20:53] <mick_work> and the Linux to Solaris guide is severely lacking
[17:21:01] <cmihai> manpages. Not much to it really. dladm show-dev && dladm show-link show info, ifconfig interface plumb plumbs the interface, the rest is quite simple. ifconfig interface ip netmask netmaskm, ifconfig interface up and so on. Just read the network administration guide on docs.sun.com
[17:22:14] <cmihai> What usually gets people is /etc/nsswitch.conf, they probably want to cp /etc/nsswitch.dns /etc/nsswitch.conf if they use DNS. And the route commands, it's "route add default IP" in Solaris, unlike in Linux.
[17:22:15] <mick_work> cmihai: thanks
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[17:22:27] <mick_work> which one should i look at: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/47.16
[17:22:33] <cmihai> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/prod/solaris.10
[17:22:45] <cmihai> You want the administration collection
[17:23:15] <cmihai> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/prod/solaris.10~47.16#hic - Basic, Advanced, IP and Network services are a must read.
[17:23:45] <cmihai> Hell, most of this stuff should be pretty familiar if you have any UNIX experience what so ever.
[17:23:54] <mick_work> right
[17:24:11] <mick_work> i'm looking for the diff between linux and solaris really
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[17:24:31] <mick_work> in linux we don't have unpluming <-- for instance
[17:24:34] <cmihai> Linux is a kernel. Be more specific.
[17:24:43] <mick_work> GNU/Linux :-P
[17:24:43] <WickyTrain> you tell him cmihai
[17:24:47] <mick_work> Debian really
[17:24:56] <Bartman007> the difference is exactly 42.
[17:25:03] <cmihai> It would be more fair to compare RHEL or SLES, since those are the commercial distributions.
[17:25:21] <mick_work> ok - Ubuntu to Solaris
[17:25:25] <cmihai> (with all the benefits of a support contract, patches, support for commercial software such as Oracle and so on).
[17:25:44] <cmihai> Heh
[17:25:45] <mick_work> i just want to have a less painful time w/ this really ;)
[17:26:14] <cmihai> OK, one is a "desktop" operating system made for home users, one is a supported enterprise grade operating system. Not much to compare really.
[17:26:17] <mick_work> i have my zones setup but they can't get to my dns server (for whatever reason)
[17:26:20] <cmihai> What exactly are you running now?
[17:26:30] <mick_work> Solaris 10 on sparc
[17:26:32] <cmihai> mick_work, did you read the part about /etc/nsswitch.conf?
[17:26:41] <cmihai> Oh, I see.
[17:26:42] <cmihai> u4?
[17:26:48] <mick_work> t2000
[17:27:12] <cmihai> No, I meant the Solaris version. 08/07?
[17:27:23] <cmihai> Or the "thing that came with it?" (probably u3 or something)
[17:29:06] <cmihai> Well?
[17:30:01] <mick_work> SunOS 5.10 Generic_125100-07 sun4v sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-T200
[17:30:21] <mick_work> is that what you meant (uname -a)
[17:30:24] <cmihai> http://unixsadm.blogspot.com/2007/08/getting-detailed-system-information-on.html - getting info on Solaris.  Grep for release or showrev. Should give you a better idea of what you're deling with (with kind of CPU an so on - there are different cored versions, from 4 to 8 cores)
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[17:30:40] <mick_work> i'm not sure which version is installed (i didn't install it)
[17:30:41] <cmihai> There's cat /etc/release too :-)
[17:30:49] <cmihai> I figured it's the one that came with the machine.
[17:30:56] <mick_work> Solaris 10 11/06 s10s_u3wos_10 SPARC
[17:31:04] <cmihai> Yep.
[17:31:07] <tfb> mick_work: plumbing an interface is just gluing it into the OS basically.
[17:31:08] <cmihai> That's u3 allright.
[17:31:45] <cmihai> You really should consider an Upgrade, LiveUpgrade or complete reinstall for that matter. The stuff that comes preinstalled is usually just to see if the machine works ;P
[17:32:09] <cmihai> mick_work, yeah, consider plumbing, to some extent, like loading the kernel modules in Linux. Sort of.
[17:32:12] <tfb> it matters because you might add or remove HW (particularly NICs...) so you need a way of telling the OS it;s there, or it's nit there
[17:32:40] <mick_work> any particular reason to upgrade?
[17:32:47] <tfb> s/nit/not.  (There is more to adding or removing the HW of course, I think you need cfgadm as well)
[17:33:00] <mick_work> thanks a lot for all the info
[17:33:01] <cmihai> mick_work, so, once you've figured your way around Solaris, consider doing a reinstall (just to see how it goes), and patching the thing (make sure you have all your support contract info for patches).
[17:33:18] <mick_work> oh fun :)
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[17:33:36] <mick_work> will my containers/zones still work after the upgrade?
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[17:33:58] <cmihai> Heh, bug
[17:34:05] <cmihai> Anyway, there's plenty of reasons to update.
[17:34:06] <mick_work> i remember hearing that zones are tied to the kernel version
[17:34:16] <mick_work> and patch level
[17:34:24] <mick_work> so then they wouldn't work anymore
[17:34:31] <cmihai> Tons of security fixes, new drivers and performance issues solved, new features and so on.
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[17:34:34] <cmihai> There's a list of new features (usually related to zone management and cpu shares stuff and so on)
[17:34:56] <tfb> mick_work: there's probably no real reason to go from u3 to u4 unless you are missing some feature in u4.  u3 will be supported for as long as u4 is.
[17:35:37] <tfb> u4 is, like, 2 months old at this point.
[17:36:18] <cmihai> Sigh.
[17:37:10] <cmihai> tfb, the stuff that comes preinstalled is usually quite a mess. Besides, might as well do it now, while it's "fresh".
[17:37:25] <cmihai> Might learn a thing or two from the installing and patching process while he's at it.
[17:37:41] <WickyTrain> to brick or not to brick
[17:38:01] <flyingparchment> mick_work: when you upgrade, your zones will be upgraded too
[17:38:24] <tfb> I didn't read carefully enough: yes I wouldn't use the preinstalled stuff. But that's a different argument than ux s uy.
[17:38:38] <mick_work> flyingparchment: ah ok, thanks
[17:39:07] <mick_work> but if i move to another hw platform (blade servers) I will not be able to migrate the containers/zones - correct?
[17:39:38] <cmihai> tfb, upgrading and patching won't ruin your install. But like I said, don't use the preinstalled stuff. Just start over while you still have the chance.
[17:40:08] <mick_work> my todo list is too big for a reinstall at this time
[17:40:13] <tfb> mick_work: you probably will if the arch is similar enough.  But there is a world of pain with patches there.
[17:40:22] <mick_work> i still haven't figured out how to write a service for solaris 10;)
[17:40:23] <flyingparchment> the preinstalled stuff includes JES, which is an awful lot of software you might not want
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[17:40:49] <cmihai> mick_work, read this:
[17:40:59] <mick_work> ya, i noticed that the main thing w/ solaris is that they like to be compatible w/ everything old
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[17:41:29] <z1pp1ty> i've set shareiscsi=on in a pool, but it doesn't show up under iscsitadm list target
[17:41:47] <z1pp1ty> is there something else I need to do?
[17:41:49] <cmihai> mick_work,  http://unixsadm.blogspot.com/2007/08/installing-coolstack-on-solaris-and.html it covers installing CoolStack/MySQL and creating the associated SMF manifests and start methods.
[17:42:10] <cmihai> mick_work, it holds true for pretty much any other service. Just make sure your read the SMF admin manual.
[17:42:19] <z1pp1ty> hmmm, nevermind. working now?
[17:44:19] <mick_work> cmihai: thanks a lot
[17:46:26] <cmihai> tfb, ?
[17:46:33] <tfb> hello
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[17:47:31] <cmihai> XChat if you really must know :P
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[17:48:18] * tfb is confused
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[17:49:12] <cmihai> * Received a CTCP VERSION from tfb
[17:49:21] <cmihai> Wasn't that you? ;-\
[17:49:48] <tfb> cmihai: Am now unconfused.  I probably clicked on you and colloquy (which I don't understand) did some insane thing.  Sorry,.  Bloody macs
[17:50:52] <tfb> (actuall, I blame click-to-type: the interface for people who have to prod you before they can talk to you...)
[17:51:40] <cmihai> tfb, heh, it happens :-). Hey, if I click my XChat tray icon, it crashes :P. But I'm too lazy to ssh to my irssi right now.
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[17:52:10] <cmihai> Oh well, I'll go get some grub. Later :-)
[17:53:05] <mick_work> how can i restart networking (the equivalent of: sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart)
[17:53:12] <flyingparchment> svcadm restart network/physical
[17:53:27] <mick_work> awesome - thanks
[17:53:31] <mick_work> all the docs say "restart"
[17:53:38] <mick_work> docs == blogs in this case
[17:54:03] <cmihai> mick_work, read those first 2 guides in the link I gave you, they cover SMF docs and specs.
[17:54:13] <mick_work> will do
[17:54:42] <cmihai> Might want to refresh the page though, just added the links.
[17:54:52] <cmihai> *afk*
[17:57:19] <mick_work> ok, my zones are pissing me off- they have /etc/resolv.conf (identical) to the global zone - yet they can't ping by domain name. my global zone can ping google.com - but my zones can only ping by ip
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[17:57:31] <flyingparchment> mick_work: cp /etc/nsswitch.conf /etc/nsswitch.conf
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[17:57:43] <flyingparchment> oops
[17:57:46] <flyingparchment> mick_work: cp /etc/nsswitch.dns /etc/nsswitch.conf
[17:58:14] <mick_work> omfg - it works
[17:58:20] <mick_work> you are awesome :)
[17:58:26] <mick_work> thanks a *lot*
[17:59:48] <flyingparchment> mick_work: when you first configured the zone, it asked you what name service to use.  you should say DNS.
[17:59:57] <flyingparchment> (the choices are NIS, NIS+, DNS, LDAP or None)
[18:01:13] <mick_work> it didn't ask me for anything ;)
[18:01:33] <mick_work> i used the moving_containers.pdf from sun.com as a basis for that
[18:01:39] <mick_work> that == my setup
[18:02:37] <tfb> did it get you to make a sysidcfg or something?  *something* answered that question for you!
[18:03:16] <mick_work> ah yes - the name_service part
[18:03:28] <tfb> yes
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[18:03:44] <tfb> That should be dns (or whatever the string is, I forget)
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[18:04:02] <mick_work> is there something to automate the creation of zones?
[18:04:13] <mick_work> i wrote a perl script to help automate that
[18:04:18] <mick_work> perl/expect
[18:04:19] <kjetilho> you can read the configuration from a file
[18:04:31] <mick_work> well now i just do copies
[18:04:34] <kjetilho> no expect needed
[18:04:36] <tfb> The only bit that's hard is the first boot (yes, config from a file)
[18:04:37] <mick_work> instead of installs
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[18:05:13] <tfb> zonecfg -z foo < foo.cfg ...
[18:05:14] <elektronkind> mick_work: no need for expect if you're using that with zonecfg. You can generate a file of zonecfg commands and feed it to zonecfg via the command line
[18:05:41] <mick_work> heh - well then that was useless to cerate it - oh well - it works
[18:06:09] <mick_work> i just thought it might be useful for someone else
[18:06:18] <flyingparchment> can you pass jumpstart begin/end/whatever scripts to zoneadm install?
[18:06:39] <tfb> in sufficiently recent 10s (u3? u2?) you can also clone zones, so you can maka a canonical master one and clone it.  This may well be faster than doing an install
[18:06:59] <mick_work> the syntax of my script is: ./add_container.pl myzonehost 192.168.x.x e1000g0
[18:07:28] <elektronkind> flyingparchment: you can put a sysidcfg file in the new zone's /etc after you install it, and on first boot it'll configure the zone according to what's in that. As for finish scripts, that's a jumpstart thing
[18:07:50] <elektronkind> flyingparchment: in place of that you can have a init script that runs once that does the jobs you need it to do
[18:08:34] <tfb> zone install is basically live upgrade, not jumpstart (sadly)
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[18:12:41] <Fish> hello
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[18:15:23] <cmihai> mick_work, you do realize I've told you about /etc/nsswitch.dns two times before, right?
[18:15:34] <cmihai> You really should pay attention ;-\
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[18:19:05] <Fuzzy> someone release SXCE 75 for me please
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[18:20:54] <cmihai> Fuzzy, any day now :-). Can't you just install 74 and LU when 75 comes out :-).
[18:21:05] <Fuzzy> 74 isn't going to do me any good
[18:21:16] <Fuzzy> i'm after the xen goodies
[18:21:20] <Fuzzy> i have two things to prove
[18:21:21] <Fuzzy> if i do
[18:21:27] <Fuzzy> then i'm down to stability trials
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[18:27:27] <flyingparchment> hm, JET looks neat
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[18:27:44] <flyingparchment> Fuzzy: install 74 and upgrade to 75 with bfu
[18:27:48] <flyingparchment> Fuzzy: probably fine for testing
[18:28:00] <Fuzzy> bfu?
[18:28:20] <Fuzzy> i'm sorry open solaris so far has been a week long experiment in my life about six months ago
[18:28:24] <Fuzzy> i've been following and waiting
[18:28:35] <Fuzzy> and now it's time so i'm sorry if i'm not up on the lingo
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[18:40:20] <_setuid_H> Hi i created some wallpapers with opensolaris / sun theme
[18:40:54] <_setuid_H> what do I have to do if i want to distribute them
[18:40:55] <_setuid_H> ?
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[18:48:56] <Pietro_S> send it to advocady community?
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[18:50:05] <storycrafter-wor> _setuid_H: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=196
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[19:18:01] <z1pp1ty> what is the equivalent of Linux `top`
[19:18:17] <elektronkind> prstat
[19:18:25] <elektronkind> and you can have top on Solaris too
[19:18:32] <elektronkind> top isn't just a Linux thing
[19:18:50] <z1pp1ty> of course
[19:19:07] <z1pp1ty> i figured the solaris version would be better :)
[19:20:08] <flyingparchment> the solaris top is kind of lame compared to the linux version
[19:20:13] <flyingparchment> and prstat is better anyway, so just use that :)
[19:20:19] <flyingparchment> (prstat -a and prstat -Z are awesome)
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[19:25:48] <e^ipi> prstat is a lot more fine-grained and doesn't use open(2); read(2) close(2) every time it needs to update
[19:26:26] <sommerfeld> "top" long predates linux.
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[19:29:45] <WickedWicky> top kills a linux machine with many processes
[19:30:32] <WickedWicky> or it used to, not sure
[19:30:41] <dark_matter> ?
[19:31:10] <WickedWicky> you could render your system very slow by running top on a machine with loads of processes, since top was going trough the entire process table
[19:31:17] <WickedWicky> so all your CPU time was basicly going to top
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[19:31:51] <WickedWicky> bon jorno luca
[19:32:04] <WickedWicky> laca too
[19:32:17] <laca> hey hey
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[19:34:31] <stevel> morning comay
[19:34:41] * WickedWicky shares palinka and cachaca with the crowd
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[19:35:43] <comay> hey there stevel
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[19:43:03] <kjetilho> hrm.  10u4 doesn't accept keyboard=ATKBD in sysidcfg anymore.  what's a suitable generic value?
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[19:53:27] <seanmcg> kjetilho: msus101 ?
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[19:56:51] * kjetilho tries it :)
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[20:02:58] <kjetilho> "not a valid keyword" :-/
[20:03:29] <kjetilho> okay, so before I had "keyboard=ATKBD {layout=US-English}" which worked fine.  what do you guys put in there?
[20:04:03] <kjetilho> I tried the kdmconfig -d trick, but it includes the hostname in the file, which is a bit ... awkward.
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[20:10:32] <seanmcg> had something like: 'keyboard=wizard:msus101{dev=/dev/vt00 kbdfile=msus101.kbd}
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[20:13:25] <seanmcg> kjetilho: though with any SXCE or later s10uX builds i never had to have any keyboard/mouse/display settings..
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[20:14:51] <kjetilho> I still get "wizard is not a valid keyboard layout"
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[20:19:15] <seanmcg> try with no keyboard keywords or the like ?
[20:20:33] <kjetilho> I wish I could just say "headless=yes"
[20:21:18] <seanmcg> this a sparc box ?
[20:21:41] <kjetilho> no, x86.  I don't think you need keyboard etc. on SPARC
[20:22:19] <kjetilho> the keyboard keyword, that is
[20:22:43] <seanmcg> true.  Though try without esp if you're jumpstarting a recent s10uX or SCXE ?  I've a few x86 boxen here - they run graphics stuff and don't need the kbd/mouse/screen settings in the sysidcfg
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[20:28:38] <kjetilho> I'll be damned!
[20:29:55] <seanmcg> works then ?-)
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[20:30:23] <kjetilho> yes, but I had forgotten to add the new NFS4 keyword :-)
[20:31:56] <kjetilho> thanks a lot for your help!
[20:33:07] <seanmcg> twas Xorg that made this possible - i.e. not needing the kbd/mouse/screen info :)
[20:34:30] <kjetilho> well, but I don't want Xorg to run on a server -- although I do want X applications to be installed
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[20:38:56] <e^ipi> svcadm disable cde-login will prevent it from loading
[20:40:06] <kjetilho> oh sure, I do that
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[20:40:38] <kjetilho> and of course now that I don't need those keywords in sysidcfg anymore, I'm a happy camper
[20:40:59] <kjetilho> the documentation could've been better for this change, though.
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[20:50:55] <Symmetria>  hrm, in solaris, when I setup a nfs share thats ip authenticated, if I try and actually mount that share from another machine I get a pemrission denied, though the ip addresses match
[20:51:08] <flyingparchment> i see there's a solaris.smf.manage authorization, allowing users to manage SMF, but can i allow a user to manage only a particular service?
[20:51:09] <Symmetria> I do however get an error that pops up that says "no default domain set"
[20:51:29] <flyingparchment> Symmetria: use the fqdn when exporting the share
[20:51:44] <Symmetria> flyingparchment I did that, xxx.xxx.ac.za
[20:51:49] <Symmetria> even tried it on ip basis
[20:51:54] <flyingparchment> Symmetria: show your nfs options?
[20:52:46] <Symmetria> . /home/virtual/mirror/root/mirror/internal/mozilla       -       nfs     sec=sys,ro=blah.blah.ac.za Mozilla
[20:53:09] <Symmetria> when I try and mount that from a machine that has forward and reverse dns of blah.blah.ac.za it gives me permission denied
[20:53:23] <Symmetria> and that message about no default domain
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[20:56:09] <Symmetria> any ideas? :)
[20:57:09] <flyingparchment> Symmetria: edit /etc/default/nfs, set the domain and restart nfs/mapid
[20:57:17] <flyingparchment> not sure that's the problem, but it could be, particularly if this is nfsv4
[20:57:44] <flyingparchment> mapid is the thing that maps usernames with different uids on each side properly.. but it needs each side to be in the same domain
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[21:07:06] <trygvis> for some reason redhat's docs site is shit slow too
[21:09:45] <yofuh> docs sites has to be slow... sun, hp, redhat, pick anyone
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[21:12:02] <cmihai> They should add Bonzo Buddy banners :-)
[21:12:24] <cmihai> Support Solaris, make this banner dissapear!
[21:13:28] * elektronkind misread "banner" as something else
[21:14:52] <cmihai> Badger?
[21:15:23] <elektronkind> you wouldn't want to know. It would ruin your mental purity
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[21:16:52] <e^ipi> is gmail being slow today for anyone other than me?
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[21:27:10] <jteo> e^ipi: gmail seems fine for me.
[21:34:20] <stratism> Hei, again. Thanks for the help with the nfo ethernet drivers. I now work on OpenSolaris finaly!!!
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[21:35:14] <stratism> Do you know where I can find multimedia players like xine, mplayer, vlc etc. for Solaris? I searched but no result....
[21:36:24] <seanmcg> blastwave.org
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[21:36:49] <elektronkind> yay, stratism has been ported to opensolaris!
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[21:40:20] <Triskelios> what is that?
[21:40:27] <Triskelios> oh
[21:40:56] <elektronkind> it's just me amusing myself, and probably only myself ;)
[21:48:59] <bubbva> btw, improved external email notifications (ie ones that include useful information) should be deployed this week
[21:49:07] <bubbva> ... for bug updates
[21:50:18] <bubbva> stevel: these are the changes that you were providing feedback on before you went "wild"
[21:51:30] <seanmcg> so can we blame stevel for any extra hassle when logging bugs :)
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[21:52:05] <WickedWicky> Why isnt House Season 4 episode 4 showing anywhere :s
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[21:53:18] <bubbva> seanmcg: unfortunately, we haven't fixed submission issues (those are two different tools), but email notifications should be MUCH better.
[21:53:40] <bubbva> but, yes, you have my permission to blame stevel (who's clearly not looking at this window) ;-)
[21:53:56] <WickedWicky> and I am clearly typing in wrong windows, sorry for that
[21:54:00] <jteo> true.
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[21:54:45] <stevel> hey
[21:54:50] <stevel> no fair picking on me when i'm in a meeting
[21:55:09] <WickedWicky> haha, hey stevel :P
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[21:56:39] <stevel> hey WickedWicky, bubbva
[21:56:55] <stevel> bubbva: "wild"?? you make it sound like i retreated into the jungles or something
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[21:57:45] <bubbva> may as well have ;-)
[21:57:58] <stevel> feh. i 'm not that far
[21:58:03] <stevel> i can look out the window and see the Sun office even :)
[21:58:06] <bubbva> (though the bay area is probalby not as exciting as an actual jungle)
[21:58:21] <stevel> bubbva: you clearly have not driven the macarthur maze/bay bridge toll plaza in commute hours :)
[21:58:28] <stevel> that's a jungle if ever i saw one
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[21:58:59] <bubbva> nope, I'm a peninsula girl
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[21:59:56] <wesolows> the peninsula is what we call the hinterland here in the City
[22:00:21] <wesolows> to conjure up images of peasant huts and horse drawn ploughs
[22:01:44] <wesolows> stevel: I think we need a meeting this week - the virtual client proposal has timed out, right?
[22:02:23] <stevel> wesolows: yeah
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[22:08:39] <estibi> [osol-announce] SXCE Build 75 available
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[22:11:17] <quasi> excellent </burns>
[22:11:27] <flyingparchment> i still didn't get around to installing b73
[22:11:37] <flyingparchment> guess i'll be liveupgrading soon enough ;)
[22:12:32] <quasi> I've been sticking to 57 and 68 while waiting for 75
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[22:15:02] <Pietro_S> perfect ;-)
[22:16:29] <e^ipi> of course it is, I just installed 74 on this box
[22:17:07] <e^ipi> regardless, i saw the commit message for x86 suspend/resume fly across my email the other day, so b76 will be a lot more interesting
[22:17:11] <quasi> e^ipi: ah, so that's what was holding up 75 ;)
[22:19:21] <quasi> "We'll send workaround info to osol-discuss." - that's like writing it on the side of a needle before dropping it into the haystack
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[22:20:33] <sommerfeld> e^ipi: note that 1) it's suspend-to-ram, not suspend-to-disk 2) it's only known to work on the ultra-20 so far.  it's a first stake in the jello more than anything else.
[22:20:44] <e^ipi> i'm aware of this
[22:20:53] <e^ipi> suspend-to-disk doesn't interest me anyways
[22:21:22] <e^ipi> i'm sure it's useful, but i prefer to just close the laptop lid and chuck it in my bag
[22:21:40] <e^ipi> and then be able to open it, wait a second or two, and continue working
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[22:23:58] <sommerfeld> what i really want is a "suspend-to-ram-and-disk" which is what I think the mac does.  resume from ram if it's intact, otherwise resume from disk (if your battery went flat)
[22:24:44] <stratism> Thanks guys.
[22:24:49] <Pietro_S> e^ipi: suspending on disk can be ineresting, if would be possible to resume it on net boot (or slim boot), that would be cool feature
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[22:25:58] <flyingparchment> how much power does suspend to ram use compared to powering off?
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[22:33:11] <quasi> Pietro_S: you're starting to sound like sunray
[22:34:14] <quasi> flyingparchment: ymmv depending on the hardware - a laptop with a battery that lasts for a couple of hours might survive 2 days suspended
[22:35:19] <wesolows> it might last about 3 seconds if dropped off the roof of a 10 story building though
[22:35:21] <Pietro_S> quasi: yes, but without need of server and big graphics performance
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[22:37:17] <quasi> wesolows: a stinkpad might survive the drop
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[22:37:32] <wesolows> you might survive it too
[22:37:37] <wesolows> but how likely is that, really?
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[22:39:49] <quasi> if you jump with a thinkpad under your arm, I'd rate the thinkpad as the most likely survivor ;)
[22:41:14] <sommerfeld> friend of mine was buying panasonic toughbook ruggedized laptops as a long-term cost-savings measure.
[22:41:53] <elektronkind> makes me appreciate the accelerometer in the macs that park the heads when it detects a disconcerting combination of G forces and orientation
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[22:43:12] <axisys> anyone knows if 6140 is a nvram based storage ?
[22:43:37] <wesolows> it has "nv" cache yes
[22:43:38] <jamesd> axisys, I can almost guarantee that google knows that answer
[22:43:59] <wesolows> how volatile or nonvolatile it really is you have to decide for yourself
[22:44:09] <h3sp4wn> Am I use using a too old version of the jds if I want to rebuild the SUNWgnome-audio and SUNWgnome-media packages (trying to use 1.6.0) on SXDE 09/07 (I did try b72 but my harddisk was non functional)
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[22:44:29] <z1pp1ty> what command can I use to partition a disk in solaris?
[22:44:34] <axisys> jamesd: yep :-)
[22:44:37] <flyingparchment> z1pp1ty: format
[22:44:37] <axisys> wesolows: thanks
[22:44:42] <wesolows> z1pp1ty: dd
[22:44:47] <wesolows> z1pp1ty: or cat
[22:44:52] <elektronkind> axisys: it is battery-backed PC133 RAM
[22:44:54] <wesolows> z1pp1ty: anything that can write(2), really
[22:44:56] <sommerfeld> elektronkind: i vaguely recall another laptop vendor plugging that feature.  A: "my laptop notices when it's falling and braces for impact".  B grabs laptop, drops.  A: "That wasn't my laptop"
[22:45:06] <wesolows> z1pp1ty: you may find fdisk(1M) and format(1M) more convenient though
[22:45:16] <elektronkind> axisys: so in that sense, it's NV as long as the battery in the controller is healthy
[22:46:14] <sfire||mouse> sommerfeld: ibm I think
[22:46:15] <elektronkind> sommerfeld: it is a nice feature. If I hold my macbook pro and suddenly tilt and jerk it, you can hear the heads park
[22:46:22] <axisys> elektronkind: gotcha..
[22:46:33] <z1pp1ty> ok, i'm being dumb. what partition type should i use if i'm going to use zfs?
[22:46:34] <axisys> elektronkind: i am trying to find out how to setup the fs..
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[22:46:50] <axisys> elektronkind: i have 96 disks over 6 6140 trays
[22:46:50] <wesolows> that'll help a lot when it hits the ground at about 70mph and shatters into 1000 pieces
[22:46:52] <elektronkind> axisys: you have a 6140 now or are thinking of buying one?
[22:46:55] <elektronkind> ahh
[22:46:56] <elektronkind> cool
[22:46:57] <wesolows> but at least the heads will be parked
[22:47:22] <axisys> elektronkind: it will be used mostly for dataware house.. oracle
[22:47:24] <sommerfeld> wesolows: the disk will probably stay in one piece; you might be able to plug it into a new laptop
[22:47:39] <elektronkind> wesolows: and hopefully the hdd would be salvagable from the mess. Just pop it into one of those 2.5" USB enclosures and hope for the best
[22:47:48] <axisys> elektronkind: now should I tell the storage to ignore flush from zfs?
[22:47:50] <wesolows> sommerfeld: my doubt of that is nagging me enough to want to try this :-)
[22:48:12] <elektronkind> axisys: these are all separate 6140s, and not a bunch of 6140 JBODs connected to a 6540 head?
[22:48:19] <sommerfeld> wesolows: they should build crush zones into the laptop around the hard drive.
[22:48:26] <axisys> elektronkind: also reading thru diff articles to find out i i should create some 6 disk raid5 luns or 96 raid0 luns
[22:48:37] <wesolows> sommerfeld: that would indeed be useful for drops from up to head height
[22:48:39] <axisys> elektronkind: separate
[22:48:48] <wesolows> I'm dtill dubious about drops from multistory buildings
[22:48:59] <axisys> i get a separate traget id for each tray
[22:49:45] <axisys> the v490 will have sol 10 u4
[22:49:46] <sommerfeld> wesolows: which should help for everyone except the people who like using their laptops braced on their balcony railing.
[22:49:56] <elektronkind> axisys: it's kinda hard to say without seeing your picture in its entirety, but I would suggest as a basline consideration that you try to make your setup redundant on the chassis level
[22:49:59] <wesolows> yep
[22:50:40] <sommerfeld> axisys: so, it's not going to help you immediately, but i suspect the best performance-resiliance tradeoff is to use nvram cache only for separate intent log devices.
[22:51:27] <sommerfeld> (or to ignore the cache flush only on the separate intent log luns)
[22:52:18] <elektronkind> I dunno if there's a way do set that on the 6140, sommerfeld
[22:52:45] <sommerfeld> neither do I...
[22:53:01] <elektronkind> there's a "use cache yes/no" option for each LUN that's settable via CAM, but I have not seen one for flush cache ignore :/
[22:53:25] <axisys> sommerfeld: blogs.digitar.com/jjwww thinks you can do tell 6140 to ignore flush cache
[22:53:38] <elektronkind> ooh
[22:54:14] <sommerfeld> anyhow, separate intent log isn't in s10u4 so this is more of a futures thing.
[22:54:44] <axisys> elektronkind: so just make few 5 disk raid5 luns ?
[22:54:59] <axisys> elektronkind: and ignore flush cache?
[22:55:41] <axisys> elektronkind, sommerfeld anything else? do I need to play with the vdev_cache and vq_nmax_pending since I will be running oracle on zfs?
[22:56:31] <axisys> s/vq_nmax_pending/vq_max_pending/
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[23:03:57] <Zambezi> How will OpenSolaris do on a fileserver? How much space will I lose on the harddrive to root etc? And I need encryption too.
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[23:07:15] <Mdx4> Zambezi: in the storage or in the transport ?
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[23:09:29] <Zambezi> Mdx4: Storage. The secondary drives.
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[23:11:10] <cmihai> Zambezi, OpenSolaris is a kernel + some networking stuff. You're probably asking about a distribution, like Solaris 10 or SXCE.
[23:11:33] <Mdx4> Zambezi: is a feature not already developed with ZFS.
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[23:11:52] <cmihai> How much space will you "lose"? Anything from like 500MB to 5GB, depending on what you install. You can pick the packages.
[23:12:10] <WickedWicky> you win some lose some, it's all the same to me!
[23:12:17] * WickedWicky rocks out on Ace of spades :P
[23:12:20] <Zambezi> cmihai: I mean drives for storages, not system.
[23:12:23] <cmihai> As for storage, you really have 2 options. ZFS or UFS. You can use compression with ZFS, it's usually quite good.
[23:12:31] <cmihai> Zambezi, no loss.
[23:12:49] <cmihai> Depending on the type of data you're storing, you can usually win up to 3x in compression.
[23:13:06] <cmihai> If you do something like RAIDZ or RAIDZ2, you can win back the "lost" space by using ZFS compression.
[23:13:15] <cmihai> (and you don't usually take a performance hit).
[23:13:19] <Hydroxide> cmihai: how much do you gain by compressing music (flac and mp3 files) with ZFS compression?
[23:13:24] <e^ipi> you do if you use gzip compression
[23:13:24] <cmihai> Less data - faster reads :-)
[23:13:31] <e^ipi> that'll be slow as hell
[23:13:42] <cmihai> Who says you want that?
[23:13:44] <Zambezi> cmihai: The compression sounds interesting.
[23:14:20] <cmihai> Not to mention ZFS is pretty much the best filesytem :P
[23:14:53] <e^ipi> unless in a constrained space, or on a 32 bit system
[23:14:58] <Hydroxide> cmihai: is the "who says you want that?" to me?
[23:14:59] <Zambezi> cmihai: Even if it's fairly new or have I misunderstood? Maybe just new in other OS.
[23:15:04] <e^ipi> it's a real ram pig
[23:15:09] <e^ipi> and address space pig
[23:15:28] <cmihai> Depends on how you look at it. Unused memory is wasted memory.
[23:15:33] <WickedWicky> but what if the pig had personality?
[23:15:52] <cmihai> You have it, ZFS will use it. That's usually a good thing. I kind of like agressive cacheing.
[23:16:04] <WickedWicky> sounds like my gf!
[23:16:05] <cmihai> Zambezi, it's quite stable for production use mate.
[23:16:06] <e^ipi> cmihai: the VM isn't agressive enough when it comes to ejecting pages, is the thing
[23:16:30] <WickedWicky> Zambezi: I use ZFS and love every bit of it, especialy the on-the-fly capping of user homedirs
[23:16:49] <Zambezi> cmihai: And with encryption, then ZFS?
[23:16:59] <e^ipi> regardless, if you're running ZFS on a system with < 1gig of memory, you're abusing yourself & ZFS
[23:17:00] <cmihai> Not yet.
[23:17:10] <e^ipi> more than a gig or so, and it flies
[23:17:15] <cmihai> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/zfs-crypto
[23:17:33] <WickedWicky> e^ipi: I have ZFS on my laptop with 1GB of ram, and I dont really see the problem
[23:17:39] <e^ipi> there you go
[23:17:48] <WickedWicky> no
[23:17:50] <WickedWicky> cause
[23:17:54] <e^ipi> on 512M it'd be painful
[23:18:09] <WickedWicky> 256MB goes to JDS, 256 to my zone
[23:18:24] <cmihai> Though you can still use the volume management capabilities of ZFS, add stuff to a pool and export RAW volumes via iSCSI to your favourite OS. There you'll have an iSCSI initiator and just newfs the volumes to whatever you want. With Dual GbE cards, jumbo frames and NIC bonding, you're set :-)
[23:18:25] <WickedWicky> which effectively leads me to 512MB for everything else
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[23:18:32] <Pietro_S> Zambezi: encryption on ZFS is under heavy development, and not ready for production
[23:18:37] <e^ipi> i didn't say "effectively 1g free"
[23:18:41] <e^ipi> i said 1 gig installed
[23:18:48] <e^ipi> you can page out large portions of JDS
[23:18:49] <LuckyLuke> I use it on a 32bit P4, 768Mb. while I agree it doesn't "fly", it does saturate my modest fastethernet (100mbit), so it's more than enough for me.
[23:18:51] <cmihai> (where you can do the crypto)
[23:19:00] <Zambezi> e^ipi: I have 512 MB right now, but can add 1 GB extra.
[23:19:02] <Pietro_S> but you can use loki-encryption on zfs disk ...
[23:19:23] <cmihai> Having large ammounts of memory on a fileserver is always a good idea.
[23:19:53] <cmihai> If all you do is ZFS/iSCSI/NFS/CIFS 1GB is usually enough. More won't hurt though :-)
[23:19:56] <Zambezi> Only one problem. The systemdrive is like 8-9 GB. And Solaris 10 needs 10 GB.
[23:20:05] <e^ipi> it does not...
[23:20:08] <cmihai> Who told you that?
[23:20:08] <e^ipi> just remove JDS
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[23:20:14] <holcomb> and staroffice
[23:20:17] <e^ipi> err, not jds (though you can remove that too)
[23:20:20] <e^ipi> i meant SO
[23:20:20] <cmihai> Fuck that mate, full install + OEM + SWAP
[23:20:21] <Pietro_S> 5GB max for installation
[23:20:26] <cmihai> Is like 8GB
[23:20:33] <cmihai> Including 2GB swap
[23:20:45] <Zambezi> This said 10 GB: http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/get.jsp
[23:20:52] <LuckyLuke> Zambezi: my standard install of SXCE is 4.something gigs
[23:20:55] <cmihai> Yeah, whatever, ignore.
[23:21:07] <e^ipi> I've installed full+OEM on a machine with a single 9.1G drive before and had plenty of space to spare
[23:21:22] <cmihai> That isn't SXCE / OpenSolaris either, that's Solaris 10 u 4 (08/07). It's actually what you want though ;-)
[23:21:24] <LuckyLuke> it's actually on a 9.x disk
[23:21:28] <e^ipi> once again, remove staroffice
[23:21:39] <e^ipi> use google's stuff or whatever
[23:21:43] <cmihai> And the development tools...
[23:21:54] <e^ipi> oh yeah, jettison those too
[23:21:56] <cmihai> (NetBeans and Sun Studio)
[23:22:10] <e^ipi> the tarball of studio on os.o is much, much smaller
[23:22:19] <e^ipi> it's studio 11 instead of 12, but it does the job
[23:22:40] <WickedWicky> erm
[23:22:48] <Zambezi> When I asked about encryption, I asked about OpenSolaris and I don't know about the answer. Is there encryption in Solaris 10? Or was the answer not yet for Solaris 10?
[23:22:51] <WickedWicky> he's installing Solaris 10
[23:23:19] <e^ipi> Zambezi: there is encryption in general ( openssl & the likes )
[23:23:25] <cmihai> Zambezi, for a de-facto OpenSolaris server, just grab 2 18GB scsi disks, use Solstice suite for mirroring (or hardware RAID), add 6-8 SATA disks, RAIDZ2, add compression + ZFS + NFS OR iSCSI and whatever you want on the other end.
[23:23:27] <e^ipi> ZFS crypto, not so much
[23:23:44] <cmihai> Zambezi, you're asking if there is full filesystem compression.
[23:23:49] <Zambezi> I meant for full harddrive-encryption.
[23:23:49] <cmihai> erm
[23:23:51] <cmihai> encryption
[23:24:13] <Pietro_S> Zambezi: ZFS encryption is not ready for production in both , but you can use loki-encryption which is pretty stable
[23:24:49] <Zambezi> The compression was a nice feature, but I doubt it would be able to compress rar-files that much.
[23:25:10] <cmihai> Nah, usually text and logs and zones and vmware machines and such compress well.
[23:25:14] <Pietro_S> sry, it's lofi
[23:25:21] <cmihai> 3x for text, about 2 for zones and 1.5 for VMware
[23:25:22] <e^ipi> code compresses pretty well too
[23:25:35] <cmihai> Heh, yeah, repos
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[23:26:17] <e^ipi> which is good, because i have 3 or 4 copies of ON on my machine
[23:26:38] <Pietro_S> Zambezi: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/loficc/ for encryption
[23:27:44] <cmihai> You'd still need encrypted swap :P
[23:28:32] <Zambezi> cmihai: And that wasn't possible with ZFS?
[23:28:45] <cmihai> Doesn't have anything to do with ZFS.
[23:29:23] <Zambezi> Wasn't lofi in alphastage?
[23:30:09] <e^ipi> that's a meaningless term when you're speaking of an open-source project really...
[23:30:27] <Pietro_S> I used it without any problems
[23:30:42] <cmihai> Zambezi, what exactly are you serving?
[23:30:45] <cmihai> And to what.
[23:31:01] <Pietro_S> actually looks like I missed ZFS encryption alpha release - so thanks you for bringing this topic ;-)
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[23:32:02] <Pietro_S> good night
[23:32:13] <hrlmec> When I mount an NFS system from another server, and create a file as the root user, it creates the file as user "nobody".  But if I create the file as my username, it creates the file with my username.  How do I make it so root creates files as root instead of nobody?
[23:32:14] <Zambezi> cmihai: Private stuffs.
[23:32:56] <Pietro_S> hrlmec: that would make big security problem to your system
[23:33:00] <Zambezi> cmihai: I'm running Ubuntu now with LUKS, but after two corrupted headers, I'm looking after a more stable solution.
[23:33:32] <holcomb> either anon=0 or root=machinename in the share definition
[23:33:37] <holcomb> (anonid?)
[23:33:56] <hrlmec> so zfs set sharenfs=root=hostname poolname/fsname
[23:34:01] <holcomb> man share_nfs
[23:34:17] <holcomb> where hostname is the system you "trust" to act as root on whatever you're sharing out
[23:34:29] <Pietro_S> hrlmec: obiviously you don't want to let oot to write data on nfs as root, trust me
[23:34:30] <hrlmec> hmm...I tried that.  It's still creating as nobody
[23:34:37] <holcomb> right
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[23:34:50] <hrlmec> yea...it's not a permanent solution for us..we just need it for while
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[23:39:17] <Zambezi> This change of OS is really causing me trouble. I can't decide what's most suitable.
[23:39:28] <cmihai> Did you try FreeBSD GELI?
[23:40:38] <Zambezi> cmihai: No. That's the first choice now, but the 8% reservation is holding me back.
[23:42:19] <cmihai> The idea is pretty simple. You need something that supports encrypted swap, the filesystem has enough features to handle most tasks (large file support, supports large volumes / partitions),  maybe snapshots... UFS2 has snapshots, SU, and there's GELI for encryption. Might be worth a try. It's not like you have many options left.. I'm pretty sure BitLocker / Vista and FileVault / MacOS are out of the way... OpenBSD vnconfig isn't really up to it
[23:42:20] <cmihai> ..  NetBSD's cgd is pretty neat, worth a look... there's Linux, but you said you don't like dm-crypt...
[23:42:21] <hrlmec> hmm...on the nfs server I did zfs set sharenfs=root=hostname poolname/fsname...I unmounted and remounted the nfs filesystem on teh client.  Created a file as root and it's still user nobody.
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[23:42:48] <cmihai> Or you could use Solaris + zpool + iSCSI volumes, and encrypt on the client with.. whatever works.
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[23:43:59] <cmihai> Heh, FreeBSD + GELI + ZFS would be pretty sweet :-)
[23:44:29] <Zambezi> cmihai: FreeBSD with Geli+UFS2 is the suggested, but loosing 300 GB to root-reservasion isn't really the best option.
[23:44:46] <cmihai> (and dangerously unstable)
[23:44:59] <cmihai> Zambezi, you don't lose anything.
[23:46:17] <cmihai> tune2fs
[23:46:37] <Zambezi> cmihai: Let's say I have 500 GB. OS is showing 456 GB. How many GB can I put on the drive as a regular user without making it unstable?
[23:47:08] <cmihai> You do realize that what they tell you is GB...
[23:47:18] <cmihai> Is actually GiB?
[23:47:33] <Zambezi> cmihai: Yes.
[23:47:38] <wesolows> sadly, no
[23:47:40] <wesolows> it really is GB
[23:47:47] <wesolows> they got the ISO to define GB their way
[23:47:51] <Zambezi> 1024 instead of 1000.
[23:47:52] <wesolows> and make GiB the "real" one
[23:47:53] <flyingparchment> GiB is the one the OS tells you, power-of-two based
[23:48:01] <wesolows> because the OS is correct
[23:48:11] <wesolows> but the drive makers have more money to influence standards
[23:48:22] <cmihai> It's basically 2^30 vs. 10^9. That's why it shows up as 456.
[23:48:47] <cmihai> Anyway, use http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=tunefs&sektion=8&apropos=0&manpath=FreeBSD+6.2-RELEASE to tune the FS reservation.
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[23:50:07] <Zambezi> cmihai: Anyway, 456 GB when it's formated. But when I as a regular user fil the drive, when does the filesystem say stop? After like 420 GB?
[23:50:30] <cmihai> It doesn't "stop" mate. You're not losing anything.
[23:50:51] <cmihai> Yes, there's a reservation, yes you can tune it, YES, you can remove it. No, you shouldn't, but that's your problem. Enjoy.
[23:50:59] <Triskelios> Zambezi: how do you think filesystems work?
[23:51:37] <Zambezi> cmihai: I say, if I set it to default, then I won't be able to use 456 GB as a regular user.
[23:51:54] <Zambezi> Triskelios: Next question please. :-P
[23:51:56] <Triskelios> Zambezi: it is tunable, duh. why do you care what the default is?
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[23:52:49] <Zambezi> Triskelios: Cause it guess it's there for a reason. I got scared when BSD-people said that going even below 5% will make the fs do strange things.
[23:52:54] <cmihai> Are you under the impression that anything but Linux will steal your precious Mebibytes? :-)
[23:53:14] <cmihai> My precious...
[23:53:24] <cmihai> It's just a recommandation. Feel free to disable it.
[23:53:25] <Triskelios> Zambezi: it just means allocations will be much less efficient due to fragmentation
[23:53:28] <cmihai> set it to 0.
[23:53:30] <cmihai> Knock yourself out.
[23:53:53] <Triskelios> Zambezi: 5% does not cause some magical transformation
[23:54:26] <cmihai> Zambezi, there's a reason you don't need to defrag UFS && friends.
[23:54:50] <cmihai> And there's a reason you can't defrag, even on windows/NTFS without  some 10-15% free.
[23:55:05] <Zambezi> The problem is I have lack of space today, so if I won't change the default, then it's 300 GB bye bye. And how I should remove 300 GB is something I have no idea about.
[23:55:41] <cmihai> So basically you have 4TB?
[23:55:52] <Zambezi> cmihai: Nah. Only 3,1 TB.,
[23:55:55] <cmihai> And are worried about 300GB?
[23:56:00] <Triskelios> if you can afford 4TB of disks I don't see why you'd cry over 300GB
[23:56:29] <Zambezi> Cause I can't afford another disk now. ;-)
[23:56:41] <cmihai> And do you actually NEED all that storage NOW?
[23:56:45] <Zambezi> I had way better finances when.
[23:56:51] <cmihai> Will it be instantly and automagically topped off?
[23:57:24] <Zambezi> cmihai: You might not see the need, but I do. So yes. I need all of it.
[23:57:25] <cmihai> Just set it to 1%.
[23:57:49] <cmihai> Bloody hell, you're a weird one.
[23:58:06] <Zambezi> I'm a nerd. ;-)
[23:58:30] <cmihai> A gormless nerd...
[23:58:58] <Zambezi> cmihai: It's a disaster losing 300 GB. It really is a major issue.
[23:59:24] <cmihai> You do realize you can just tunefs -m 0 and bam, it's all there and you can use it?
[23:59:24] <wesolows> then turn the knob
[23:59:42] <cmihai> Why must you make a case out of this?
[23:59:59] <wesolows> if it's "a disaster" to "lose" 300GB, then how will it be any worse to end up with pathological performance problems or root not being able to clean shit up when some user fills it?





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