[00:00:18] <l1s> but only if they need money and not bevore they made anything
[00:00:23] <l1s> TrogL: for what?
[00:00:31] <l1s> before
[00:00:32] <TrogL>  < l1s> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo @ TrogL
[00:00:50] <l1s> ah, np...
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[00:30:16] <stevel> evening glynn
[00:30:55] <Gman> hi stevel
[00:31:27] <hsn_> install-discuss group is for reporting install errors?
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[00:31:59] <sommerfeld> l1s: not sure what brought that rant on, but see: http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1998/patents-0415.html
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[00:32:26] <nrubsig> Groan... patents... not again... ;-(
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[00:32:52] <jbk> evening
[00:33:12] <nrubsig> jbk: good morning! :-)
[00:33:23] <nrubsig> Did anyone see alanc recently ?
[00:33:33] <nrubsig> s/see/saw/
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[00:33:53] <jbk> i haven't seen alanc since the summit...
[00:34:03] <jbk> but that's because i'm not in the bay area :)
[00:34:13] <nrubsig> Mercy, mercy, Linux and 666 are upon us!!
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[00:35:36] <e^ipi> makes sense though
[00:35:55] <e^ipi> I imagine in hell all they've got is 8 year old machines running linux
[00:36:54] <nrubsig> e^ipi: if that's true then I'm in hell already...
[00:37:01] * nrubsig looks around !
[00:37:03] <nrubsig> ...
[00:37:07] <nrubsig> Hi Satan!
[00:37:13] <nrubsig> Hi Belzebub!
[00:37:23] <nrubsig> Hi Red Master!
[00:37:28] <nrubsig> Hi Succubus!
[00:37:33] <nrubsig> Hi Sommerfeld!
[00:37:40] * nrubsig runs
[00:41:29] <nrubsig> hey, this isn't fun anymore... sommerfeld doesn't bite back... ;-(
[00:41:44] * nrubsig grumbles...
[00:43:26] *** nrubsig was kicked by stevel (on sommerfeld's behalf)
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[00:43:48] <stevel> nrubsig: you need auto-rejoin :)
[00:44:04] * wesolows wonders how he lost ops
[00:44:05] <nrubsig> hey, cool... sommerfeld hqas a butler!
[00:44:51] <nrubsig> wesolows: erm, in my client sommerfeld is still listed as /op
[00:44:58] <wesolows> he is, I'm not
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[00:45:30] *** nrubsig sets mode: -o wesolows
[00:45:35] *** nrubsig sets mode: +o wesolows
[00:45:44] <nrubsig> wesolows: better ?
[00:45:46] <elektronkind> oh god that was a trip
[00:45:59] <elektronkind> I had to get into the VxWorks shell of a 6140
[00:46:02] <wesolows> either chanserv is busted or I've been removed...that's ok, I don't care.  It was just surprising.
[00:46:19] <sommerfeld> looks like chanserv isn't attending this party.
[00:46:22] <nrubsig> wesolows: maybe just a hiccup
[00:46:45] <wesolows> chanserv opd nrubsig when he rejoined
[00:46:51] <wesolows> it's at least partly functional
[00:47:01] <wesolows> elektronkind: spicy
[00:47:10] <stevel> does chanserv need to be in the channel?
[00:47:17] <nrubsig> no
[00:47:31] <elektronkind> yeah, all to change the array IP address because the person who owned it before me forgot its password :/
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[00:47:52] <nrubsig> oh dear
[00:48:17] <wesolows> all hail chanserv
[00:48:25] <nrubsig> stevel: AFAIK chanserv doesn't need to be here...
[00:48:45] <nrubsig> wesolows: I tolerate ChanServ as long it keeps Drone alone.
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[00:49:02] <cmihai> elektronkind, who owned or own3d?
[00:49:09] <elektronkind> owned :)
[00:49:10] <nrubsig> BTW: Drone is working again.
[00:49:11] <g4lt-mordant> nrubsig, speaking of drone, what's up with the 8-odd hour lag?
[00:49:18] <g4lt-mordant> okay
[00:49:19] <nrubsig> g4lt-mordant: fixed.
[00:49:47] <nrubsig> g4lt-mordant: http://www.uwyn.com/drone/log/bevinbot/opensolaris
[00:50:25] <sommerfeld> wesolows was not on the chanserv operator access list for this channel.  i believe i've fixed this.
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[00:50:41] <elektronkind> cmihai: if an array gets hacked, I'll give up and take up landscaping
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[00:50:55] * wesolows shrugs
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[00:51:04] <wesolows> not worth spending time on it; we have plenty of ops
[00:51:35] <elektronkind> ooooh. CAM 6.0 is now out
[00:56:13] <sommerfeld> nrubsig: anyhow, you (a) were missing context and (b) clearly actually read the article I linked to
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[00:57:00] <g4lt-mordant> wesolows, yeah, but with stevel now being an activist op, you might need it so you can get a quick reinvite ;P
[00:57:12] <cmihai> activist?
[00:57:13] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: ?!
[00:57:25] <sommerfeld> (arguing that the optimal strategy is for the government to give away  rather than try to sell licenses for the patents its own, because it makes back far more in taxes on the resulting increases in economic activity from the few patents which are winners)
[00:57:53] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: erm... my comment was more like "oh no, not again a patent debate"
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[00:58:46] <sommerfeld> it wasn't a patent debate.  it was one person ranting about government-funded research.
[00:58:57] <g4lt-mordant> cmihai, you didn't see stevel actually use his @ last night?  it was comical
[00:59:27] <sommerfeld> (guessing from his domain, german-government funded university research)
[00:59:59] <cmihai> heh
[01:01:03] <nrubsig> g4lt-mordant: he used his @ ?
[01:01:18] <nrubsig> g4lt-mordant: what has this channel become ? IRC version of youporn ?
[01:03:43] <nrubsig> wesolows: ping!
[01:04:13] <nrubsig> wesolows: can you watch the bugs.opensolaris.org input queue somehow, please ?
[01:04:46] <wesolows> maybe
[01:04:53] <nrubsig> erm
[01:04:55] <wesolows> what am I looking for?
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[01:05:09] <nrubsig> wesolows: a RFE which is going to be filed...
[01:05:21] <wesolows> then file it and I'll look for it
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[01:15:17] <nrubsig> wesolows: bug submitted.
[01:18:22] <sleepcat> why go CDE bye-bye?
[01:18:41] <sleepcat> why not modernize CDE?
[01:19:21] <kjetilho> feel free ...
[01:19:24] <sommerfeld> sleepcat: would be pointless to modernize it without opensourcing it
[01:20:07] <sommerfeld> and you can't opensource code unless you have the right to opensource it.
[01:20:35] <sleepcat> it is really intuitive
[01:20:42] <sleepcat> and quite cool
[01:20:51] <sleepcat> i like the usability aspect of it better than JDS
[01:21:07] <elektronkind> ahaha
[01:21:52] <elektronkind> so I got curious and ran strings against one of the seagate disk firmware images that was packaged with CAM 6.0. Apparently there's an errror string of "God Help Us"
[01:22:29] <sommerfeld> hahaha
[01:22:36] <jbk> hahaha
[01:25:17] <elektronkind> huh, apparently there's a whole command shell
[01:25:36] <elektronkind> and lots of Emulex copyright notices
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[01:26:45] <elektronkind> there must be a serial interface on the logic board of the drive
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[01:28:13] <sleepcat> sommerfeld: why doesn't sun have rights to CDE?
[01:28:36] <sommerfeld> note that sun wasn't the only vendor to ship CDE
[01:29:13] <g4lt-mordant> sleepcat, HP-UX used CDE, and actually used CDE2 when it came out as well
[01:29:29] <sleepcat> somone should modify jds to incorporate the drawer functionality.  It works almost like Apple's dock!
[01:29:35] <g4lt-mordant> that was some ugly shit
[01:29:41] <sleepcat> very handy in deed
[01:30:01] <sommerfeld> large parts of CDE were based on HP-VUE (the resemblance is .. frightning)
[01:30:02] <sleepcat> g4lt-mordant: it may be ugly but it is cool as hell
[01:30:25] <elektronkind> hmm. fujitsu firmware doesn't seem as exciting as seagate firmware
[01:31:30] <sommerfeld> researching the origins of the code would likely be a nightmare.  and then you'd have to negotiate with all the owners and get them to agree..
[01:31:51] <sommerfeld> elektronkind: you clearly need the shift-jis version of "strings" :-)
[01:32:07] <elektronkind> ;)
[01:32:12] <g4lt-mordant> and all for a DE that screams 1990
[01:32:56] <sleepcat> wow, cde even has a calendar app that functions like ms outlook
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[01:35:58] <elektronkind> ok, cool. Seagate SATA drives apparently run the ThreadX embeded OS from Green Hills on a ARM9
[01:36:19] <elektronkind> knowing that, I can now sleep well tonight
[01:37:44] <sickness> sata drives run an os?!? :\
[01:37:58] <elektronkind> most anything does these days
[01:38:18] <sickness> really? you mean a firmware?
[01:38:46] <elektronkind> apparently
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[01:38:57] <elektronkind> I'm looking at rev 604 of the firmware for a ST37500NSSUN750G
[01:39:25] <sickness> ok but just the bare internal 3,5" disk, or an ethernet enclosure with embedded os?
[01:39:34] <nrubsig> Is Derek Cicero here ?
[01:39:40] <sickness> hi nrubsig
[01:39:45] <nrubsig> sickness: Hi!
[01:39:47] <stevel>  nrubsig: no
[01:39:55] <elektronkind> sickness: the firmware image for the drive itself
[01:41:01] <sickness> elektronkind: omg
[01:41:02] <stevel> nrubsig: why?
[01:41:51] <sickness> elektronkind: so you mean that teoretically something like this http://www.openbsd.org/landisk.html could be done on the drive itself? (like soldering a serial port :)
[01:42:36] <elektronkind> well I suppose so if the ThreadX RTOS that runs on these drives can drive it
[01:42:42] * elektronkind really wouldn't know
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[01:44:12] <elektronkind> oh wow, for a 6140 array's firmware, I found the area where one can activate features I think
[01:44:31] <wesolows> is there a bit for "reduce cost by 80%" feature?
[01:44:40] <elektronkind> checking :)
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[01:45:33] <elektronkind> well, found the scsi inquirt vendor/model stuff
[01:46:38] <wesolows> oh so you can actually change it back to Engenio from whence it came
[01:46:52] <gdamore> fyi, first suspend-to-ram prototype for Solaris (ultra 20 only right now) rti just got submitted.  Thanks to randy!
[01:47:08] <wesolows> gdamore: can they resume now too or is it still suspend-only? ;-)
[01:47:30] <gdamore> well, u20 can resume.  laptops need some work.  intel systems are going to need some work.  but this is *goodness*
[01:48:03] <nrubsig> stevel: because he updated some ksh93 bugs
[01:48:14] <nrubsig> stevel: is CR #6619428 the RFE I filed today ?
[01:48:35] <stevel> nrubsig: beats me. how would i know?
[01:48:44] <stevel> or are you forgetting i left Sun... :-P
[01:48:53] <wesolows> synopsis?
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[01:49:05] <wesolows> oh, it could only be that one
[01:49:06] <wesolows> yes it is
[01:49:12] <wesolows> ast-ksh.whatever
[01:49:15] <wesolows> "update"
[01:49:26] <wesolows> I love the implication that "update" = "enhancement"
[01:49:34] <wesolows> newer must be better, right?
[01:49:57] <nrubsig> wesolows: not always but in this case it's true
[01:50:21] <nrubsig> wesolows: old version was based on ksh93s_alpha, this one is near ksh93s+_final
[01:50:24] <wesolows> why not file bugs for all the things that are wrong with the one we have today and then fix them by updating?
[01:50:52] <wesolows> then we might actually know what got fixed by your putback
[01:50:55] <nrubsig> uhm
[01:51:46] <stevel> nrubsig: derek is coming..
[01:52:01] <wesolows> I already confirmed his bug id for him
[01:52:16] <stevel> k. i'll let him know then
[01:52:35] <wesolows> anyone else need a bugid while I've got bugster open?
[01:54:51] <nrubsig> wesolows: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ksh93-integration-discuss/2007-June/005485
[01:55:46] <nrubsig> wesolows: except the |libast::fopen()| "F" flag, |select()| and SIGRT handling stuff all issues have been fixed.
[01:56:05] <nrubsig> and some other things, too.
[01:56:21] <wesolows> fixed already, or fixed in 10-15?
[01:56:35] <nrubsig> fixed in 2007-10-15
[01:56:51] <nrubsig> plus some multibyte fixes went in we found in rssread.ksh
[01:56:54] <wesolows> ok...so this may well be a good idea...but why not file a bug for each ... well, bug?
[01:57:01] <nrubsig> groan
[01:57:12] <wesolows> it's all right
[01:57:21] <wesolows> I'm the one who doesn't belong here, not you
[01:57:33] <wesolows> everyone else seems happy with being a mere aggregation of other people's code
[01:57:41] <nrubsig> wesolows: I'm not 100% happy about it because only 2/3 of the bugs I filied didn't make it though
[01:57:56] <nrubsig> erm
[01:57:57] <nrubsig> wesolows: ?!
[01:58:02] <wesolows> yep, boo sucks, no doubt about it
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[02:00:06] <nrubsig> wesolows: technically I agree with you that each issue should have it's bug... but I'm trying to avoid filing large descriptions into the bugs.opensolaris.org interface without knowing whether they make it through or not.
[02:00:16] <nrubsig> Mhhh...
[02:01:02] <nrubsig> would it be possible to provide access to the bugster X11 application via SSH tunnel ?
[02:01:13] <stevel> hahaha
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[02:01:40] <stevel> yes. and someone would get fired for it undoubtedly
[02:01:53] <nrubsig> stevel: why ? I saw the interface in MPK17 and it was better than the web thing. And it was _useable_
[02:02:12] <wesolows> it also allows access to a bunch of stuff like customer data
[02:02:23] <nrubsig> right... ;-(
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[02:02:24] <wesolows> I doubt anyone could survive if IT or Security or HR found out
[02:02:35] <nrubsig> HR ?
[02:02:44] <nrubsig> Hideous Rich monster ?
[02:02:46] <wesolows> the people responsible for guarding employee data
[02:03:02] <nrubsig> Humiliating Resources ?
[02:03:05] <wesolows> yes
[02:03:12] <nrubsig> doh!
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[02:08:24] <nrubsig> wesolows: http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/743003
[02:09:41] <wesolows> hmm, ok
[02:09:56] <wesolows> at least that should be added to the bug comments
[02:10:01] <wesolows> I think I'll do that now
[02:10:15] <wesolows> too bad those are not phrased as bug synopses; maybe I could autofile them
[02:10:31] <nrubsig> wesolows: that are not all fixes, libast/libcmd/libdll/libsum have their own set of set of changelogs
[02:10:44] <wesolows> ok, never mind then
[02:11:03] <wesolows> I'll go be grouchy
[02:11:22] <nrubsig> wesolows: I have somewhere a copy for the metting with april&&don - it's six pages long
[02:13:15] <nrubsig> wesolows: 171 items so far, five of them feature stuff, the rest are bugfixes
[02:13:51] * nrubsig isn't sure whether he should try and dump 171 things into bugster
[02:14:12] <tomww> bugster would survive this
[02:14:16] <wesolows> easily
[02:14:24] <wesolows> but boo...not necessarily
[02:14:35] <wesolows> and it would be quite an impressive putback
[02:15:04] <wesolows> of course, that would also annoy people who take pride in their own bugs-fixed count :-)
[02:15:32] <tomww> I have number x, and you?
[02:15:46] <tomww> :-)
[02:15:54] <wesolows> x plus delta :-)
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[02:16:22] <nrubsig> my point is that I'd prefer to spend the time getting the stuff done instead of filing lots of bugs into an interface which eats some of them. That's why I prefer bugs.grommit.com - that one doesn't loose bug reports.
[02:16:41] <wesolows> we all hate boo
[02:16:48] <nrubsig> hurray!
[02:16:54] <wesolows> no matter who you preach to, it's always the choir
[02:17:09] <nrubsig> amen!
[02:17:31] <l1s> whats the topic?
[02:18:00] <nrubsig> !?????
[02:18:12] <nrubsig> l1s: holy war upon boo!
[02:18:14] <nrubsig> !?????
[02:19:40] <l1s> hm
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[02:20:17] <l1s> spammer
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[02:22:52] <nrubsig> l1s: grumpf... the "?????" was thought as half a pun on the "holy war"-thing...
[02:22:59] <nrubsig> (ok, bad joke)
[02:25:42] * nrubsig fades off and thinks about linking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan to measure the time needed for the wikipedia admins to realise that something in the religious world went wrong...
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[03:26:44] <wesolows> unreal...brandorr and I are in substantially complete agreement
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[03:28:39] <nrubsig> wesolows: erm... this is VERY BAD.
[03:28:51] <nrubsig> wesolows: I expect the fabric of reality to collapse
[03:29:28] <bda> Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria!
[03:29:47] <jbk> +1 for the ghostbusters reference
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[03:32:49] <nrubsig> Imagine it - I could become sane again!
[03:32:56] <nrubsig> *hicks*
[03:32:59] <jbk> so is it too late to bet on the cubs? :)
[03:33:49] <nrubsig> jbk: you may bet... but becomes pointless after the big crunch since there is no "reality" where you can spend the money afterwards.
[03:34:05] <cub-> is there a way to stop accepting mails to root from the outside?
[03:34:18] <cub-> somehow it got on the spam list
[03:34:25] <nrubsig> jbk: unless the universe is a ping-pong one which runs from big-bang to big-crunch and big-bang to big-crunch and big-bang to big-crunch and big-bang to big-crunch and big-bang to big-crunch and big-bang to big-crunch and big-bang to big-crunch and big-bang to big-crunch and big-bang to big-crunch and big-bang to big-crunch and big-bang to big-crunch and big-bang to big-crunch and big-bang...
[03:34:26] <nrubsig> ...to big-crunch and big-bang to big-crunch and big-bang to big-crunch and big-bang to big-crunch and  ...
[03:35:00] <cub-> i haven't checked root emails for a while (a test box) and checked it last night only to find out that there were 3000 spam mails in it
[03:35:07] <nrubsig> heh
[03:35:08] <jbk> i'll just take the quantum approach and never look at the universe, therefore you'll never know for sure :)
[03:35:13] <nrubsig> cub-: email address, please ?
[03:35:37] <cub-> nrubsig ?
[03:36:18] <nrubsig> cub-: I just want you to trick you into posting the full email of root@... that more spambots can have their fun...
[03:36:21] <nrubsig> =:-)
[03:36:42] <cub-> but umm....every domain has a root at domain dot com
[03:36:55] * nrubsig posts that to his buddies
[03:37:03] <nrubsig> domain.com, find a hole to hide!
[03:39:25] <nrubsig> cub-: erm... technically you may want to check whether you want to block all incoming mails from outside.
[03:39:38] <nrubsig> (outside==outside your network)
[03:39:47] <cub-> nrubsig: for root only, yes
[03:42:11] <cub-> let me ask in #sendmail
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[03:47:51] <Tpenta> welcome back bill
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[03:49:30] <nrubsig> Tpenta: got another email... please guess the topic...
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[03:51:22] <nrubsig> stupid question: do syscalls have a |nanosleep(50)| somwhere builtin or why does a switch from Ultra5 to E280R doesn't bring more performance for syscall-heavy applications ?
[03:54:44] <jamesd> it should...   is the e280r doing 100 times more work or something.. perhaps i'm off by a factor of 10.. a 1000 times more work is more likely
[03:55:42] <wesolows> we're talking latency not throughput
[03:55:59] <wesolows> I doubt an E280R offers much less latency than an Ultra 5 if neither is loaded
[03:56:32] <wesolows> have you dtraced to find where time is being spent?
[03:56:39] <jbk> might it also not suggest that perhaps cpu isn't what's throttling things?
[03:56:50] <nrubsig> wesolows: I don't have dtrace permissioins on that box.
[03:56:53] <wesolows> certainly - lots of possibilities
[03:57:01] <jbk> i remember way back
[03:57:16] <jbk> there was an app
[03:57:30] <jbk> ran the exact same on a 4cpu system as on a 20 cpu system
[03:57:31] <nrubsig> jbk: it's on tmpfs so the filesystem is hardly the bottleneck.
[03:57:44] <jbk> turned out.. it had a very poor locking stragety
[03:58:19] <nrubsig> jbk: if you ask me global vars and locking should be avoided.
[03:58:54] <Tpenta> sorry was in another window roland
[03:58:57] <wesolows> locking should be avoided...uhhh
[03:59:16] <jbk> well in this case
[03:59:17] <wesolows> do we prevent races by crossing our fingers?
[03:59:24] <nrubsig> wesolows: I mean using locks in geneal. there are better ways for IPC syncronisation.
[03:59:42] <jbk> it was a database app ported from informix to oracle, but was still doing table locking
[03:59:53] <wesolows> locks are not IPC
[03:59:58] <wesolows> IPC is not locking
[04:00:42] <jbk> vendor kept insisting that we just needed to replace our hitachi disk (which wasn't even breaking a sweat) with EMC (at a whole integer > 1)x the cost on an E10k
[04:00:54] <wesolows> nifty
[04:00:55] <nrubsig> wesolows: my point is that most locks in applications where threads were added later come from global variables which need to be protected... and then these variables and their locking are the "usual suspects" for hot spots
[04:01:12] <nrubsig> wesolows: sorry for using the wrong term. I mean locking between threads and communication between threads
[04:01:34] <wesolows> nrubsig: Maybe.  I can't comment on those applications but in the work I do we design for multithreading from the ground up and are not protecting global state but simply data that's used by more than one thread.
[04:01:43] <jbk> well it will be interesting to see how transactional memory changes things
[04:02:14] <wesolows> oh it'll make everything great and there will be peace and happiness and lots of other fruity shit that no one seriously expects
[04:04:00] <nrubsig> wesolows: well... my common solution for such cases is to find all r/w global vars and put them into a per-thread handle and pass the handle pointer around. Saves lots of locking fun and gives near linear scaling (assuming you do it right)
[04:04:33] <Tpenta> thats well and good for read only variable, as soon as you have multiple copies, you have a problem about which one has the real value
[04:05:03] <wesolows> per-thread handles are great where appropriate
[04:05:22] <echaz> I just got a dvd burner for my solaris machine, but I don't know how to use it....  Can anyone point me to burning software for solaris?
[04:05:25] <wesolows> but sometimes you just need to allow multiple threads to share data
[04:05:28] <jbk> wesolows: i just meant in terms of any new techniques and such
[04:05:42] <jbk> echaz: cdrecord & cdrw
[04:05:49] <wesolows> jbk: yeah...I'm not a TM fan but I guess I'll wait and see
[04:05:51] <nrubsig> wesolows: known problem. My preferred solution are either messages or memory barriers.
[04:06:01] <echaz> thanks jbk
[04:06:02] <nrubsig> (if available)
[04:06:09] <wesolows> nrubsig: messages - and what protects the message queue? locks.
[04:06:24] <nrubsig> wesolows: no.
[04:06:34] <jbk> echaz: those are cmdline, if you're looking for windows-style guis there are some that exist, don't know if they are included w/ any opensolaris distro
[04:06:37] <nrubsig> wesolows: you can implement queues using a barrier
[04:07:00] <RainDoctor> what bits from global zone are installed on non-global, sparse-root, zone (or zone path of non-global zone)?
[04:07:00] <wesolows> why on god's earth do I want to use a hammer that big?
[04:07:14] <wesolows> barriers don't make any sense at all for that
[04:07:15] <bda> Because you're secretly Thor.
[04:07:21] 
[04:07:40] <wesolows> to block 50 threads instead of normally 1 and occasionally 2 or 3?
[04:07:48] <nrubsig> sigh
[04:07:58] <jamesd> RainDoctor, all of them.... just some are readonly links.. and others are complete copies depending on how you configure it
[04:08:16] <wesolows> and how pray tell do I force the other threads to call barrier() just because I want the resource?
[04:08:20] <wesolows> this is madness
[04:08:29] * bda waits.
[04:08:30] <wesolows> at best you end up implementing a lock on top of a barrier
[04:08:32] <jamesd> s/links/copies/
[04:08:49] <RainDoctor>  for instance, /usr, /sbin, /platform, /lib are linked
[04:08:53] <RainDoctor> any other things?
[04:09:07] <RainDoctor> I am asking this because, my collegue using vxfs mount for zone path
[04:09:21] <jamesd> RainDoctor, you can do it for anthing you want.. by default... its those...
[04:09:28] <wesolows> locks work.  we understand them, and we know how to use them.  Fancy synchronization schemes need to offer a huge upside to overcome the risks.
[04:09:53] <RainDoctor> He is just mounting that zone path (from build 1 global zone), to build 2 global zone
[04:09:56] <RainDoctor> does it cause problems
[04:10:07] <RainDoctor> instead of using sun recommended cloning
[04:10:12] <jamesd> RainDoctor, in a zone those directory are actually mounted  readonly, kind of like  nfs  but done with a different method
[04:10:46] <RainDoctor> thanks jamesd
[04:10:51] <jamesd> RainDoctor, cloning is much better especially if you are using ZFS filesystem
[04:11:31] <Tpenta> without an atomic queuing instuctioni, you are always going to need locks or you will have races
[04:11:59] <RainDoctor> what happened is this, /etc/release (from build 1) appeared when this zone path is mounted to different global zone (at different patch level)
[04:12:07] <RainDoctor> just wondering, does it cause any support issues
[04:14:31] <jamesd> RainDoctor, its not supported...  that is the least of your worries if you are usin a shared copy of /etc
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[04:15:06] <jamesd> and /var adds its own little nightmares if you are sharing it
[04:15:32] <jamesd> a sparse zone uses 100MB of disk space, approximately...  don't share the mount point.
[04:16:05] <RainDoctor> oh
[04:16:28] <RainDoctor> I have read it on some blog, like 70 MB of bits are added in sparse root zone
[04:16:39] <RainDoctor> but I wanted to know specifically where there are added
[04:16:59] <RainDoctor> btw, /var, /etc are not shared
[04:17:06] <jamesd> you can get it down to less.. but who cares about 30 mb?    hell i throw away 500MB disks because there is no purpose for them
[04:17:45] <jamesd> RainDoctor, its not what you said... <RainDoctor> what happened is this, /etc/release (from build 1) appeared when this zone path is mounted to different global zone (at different patch level)
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[04:18:00] <jamesd> how is  /etc/release  get there?
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[04:18:17] <RainDoctor> our zone path is this, /zones/ambra/root/etc/release
[04:18:33] <RainDoctor>  /zones/ambra is zone path
[04:18:38] <RainDoctor> it is vxfs mount
[04:18:45] <RainDoctor> we had some troubles with global zone
[04:19:04] <RainDoctor> so, they rebuild another global zone (at latest patch level)
[04:19:11] <RainDoctor> and mounting that zone path on this machine
[04:19:22] <RainDoctor> tinkered /etc/zones/ambra.xml
[04:19:25] <RainDoctor> and made it running
[04:19:28] <jamesd> huh?  the only way to rebuild a global zone is to reinstall
[04:19:49] <RainDoctor> they built global zone on different machine
[04:19:54] <RainDoctor> they left that crashed machine aside
[04:20:36] <RainDoctor> I think, I am not explaining properly
[04:20:43] <RainDoctor> let me write it neatly, and paste it
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[04:21:18] <bda> RainDoctor: You're saying the zone was shared from another system. The global died, and was rebuilt. Now the zone is complaining about differing patch levels?
[04:21:43] <jamesd> i hope you aren't hoping for stability in any of this? ...  what you are doing is totally screwed up... zones should all be local to one machine...  only exception is if you mount san storage and use it for ZFS and use the
[04:21:50] <jamesd> luns on only one machine..
[04:22:16] <RainDoctor> well, it is a production zone
[04:22:18] <RainDoctor> you know
[04:22:24] <RainDoctor> but I am not responsible for that mess
[04:22:31] <bda> jamesd: Hosting the zone on shared storage makes a lot of sense.
[04:22:32] <RainDoctor> but I wanna discuss abt it with my boss
[04:22:49] <RainDoctor> but I am looking where those 70MB bits are added on zone path
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[04:23:32] <bda> As for this particular setup, heh.. :P
[04:23:45] <jamesd> bda, not when more than one system is accessing it...  you will only have a mess in the end...  that is why  NFS storage is not allowed to hold zones.
[04:23:53] <RainDoctor> bda, thats okay, if the global zones are on same patch level
[04:24:02] <bda> jamesd: Right. :)
[04:24:06] <RainDoctor> but what worries me is that these global zones are on different patch level
[04:24:31] <bda> RainDoctor: Yea, not supported. Rebuild the zone, steal configs and data.
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[04:25:25] <jamesd> RainDoctor, if you are telling us its okay... have fun... everything should be "OK"  ...  but since you are hear asking qustions about it .. i'm guessing things are not really ok
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[04:25:44] <RainDoctor> jamesd, no, i am not saying it is okay
[04:25:51] <RainDoctor> I wanted to get better understanding of it
[04:27:08] <jamesd> RainDoctor, try a nice simple zone... use 100MB of / if you have too... just local storage that isn't shared.. play to your hearts content, look around explore both from inside thje zone and from the global zone you should get an idea of how it is woking...
[04:27:53] <RainDoctor> We have a global zone, called A at patch level X; so, it crashed. However, the sparse-root zones(/zones/ambra) on that machine
[04:27:54] <RainDoctor> are vxfs mount. So, they built another global zone, called A at patch level B---on differt machine.
[04:27:54] <RainDoctor> So, they used that (/zones/ambra) on this machine, and brought up that ambra zone.
[04:27:54] <RainDoctor> I am worried because /zones/ambra originally built at patch level X; and used the same at patch level Y.
[04:28:06] <RainDoctor> (thats my question)
[04:28:31] <RainDoctor> jamesd, I will try it next week
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[04:31:11] <RainDoctor> from blog: A sparse root zone has its own private copy of some things (like most of /etc and /var), but the vast bulk of the Solaris software is lofs-mounted from the global zone, allowing a sparse root Solaris zone to consume less than 100MB of disk space.
[04:31:18] <RainDoctor> so, it is messed up config
[04:31:56] <bda> Why don't you just du and see where the space is being used? :)
[04:32:03] <bda> Perhaps in log files, or application data, or...
[04:32:11] <bda> (your co-workers secret goat porn stash)
[04:32:12] <RainDoctor> sure, bda
[04:32:15] <RainDoctor> LOL
[04:32:26] <RainDoctor> I am here to learn some details abt sparse root zones
[04:32:27] <bda> It's only funny until you find it.
[04:32:33] <RainDoctor> I will investigate it next week
[04:32:42] <RainDoctor> sorry if I am bothering much
[04:33:03] <jamesd> RainDoctor, a normal box will create a zone be booted in lesss than 30 minutes... give it a try...
[04:33:15] <RainDoctor> I will
[04:33:59] <jamesd> my ultra 20 can do it in less than 3 minutes...
[04:34:10] <bda> Yeah, I was gonna say.. 30 minutes? O_
[04:34:44] <jamesd> bda, my u2 does it in 30...    but it only has 20MB/s storage and  2x 300mhz cpus
[04:34:56] <bda> Heh.
[04:35:16] <bda> Normal box for 1998? ;)
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[04:35:37] <RainDoctor> now, I got it
[04:35:56] <RainDoctor> if manifests have changed across patch sets, this gonna screw up the thing
[04:36:03] <RainDoctor> /var/svc/manifest
[04:36:03] <jamesd> bda, well who knows what he is doing this on... it could be a very busy system with slow storage.. so i gave him the worst case
[04:36:09] <bda> :)
[04:37:22] <jamesd> RainDoctor, why the hell are you worried about patch sets... install a zone, play with it, so you have a grasp of what you are talking about... after that we can discuss details like that...
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[04:37:37] <RainDoctor> ok
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[05:19:46] <sleepcat> wow
[05:19:56] <RainDoctor> slapcat
[05:20:05] <sleepcat> i just got kicked from solaris
[05:20:43] * sleepcat thinks the creator of smf was in #solaris
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[05:20:53] <RainDoctor> hmm
[05:21:00] <elektronkind> what's #solaris up to these days?
[05:21:00] <RainDoctor> why were u kicked out of solaris
[05:21:11] <sleepcat> because i said i didn't like smf
[05:21:23] <RainDoctor> hmm
[05:21:31] <elektronkind> ooh how *could* you think that
[05:21:34] <elektronkind> ;)
[05:22:03] <sleepcat> yeah, someone was *really* defensive over smf in there...
[05:22:24] <jbk> heh
[05:22:27] <elektronkind> irc makes it easy to be thin-skinned
[05:22:34] <jbk> smf's not bad, it just needs more work
[05:22:48] <sleepcat> jbk: go say that in #solaris
[05:23:01] <e^ipi> I don't mind smf
[05:23:04] <sleepcat> i'd bet the mastermind behind it is there
[05:23:14] <sleepcat> judging from how fast i got the boot
[05:23:17] <e^ipi> beats the crap out of init scripts
[05:23:31] <elektronkind> I dont think the person behind smf is that petty :)
[05:23:45] <jbk> and i suspect it was more than one person that did smf
[05:23:54] <jamesd> jbk smf makes 2 am pages a lot easier to deal with.. login .. run  svcs -x  to see what is broken.
[05:24:03] <elektronkind> the opers in #solaris have traditionally been snots anyhow
[05:24:14] <jbk> i agree, i just think it can be improved
[05:24:18] <sleepcat> elektronkind: they can be quite fun in #solaris
[05:24:32] <sleepcat> i've only been on their bad side twice
[05:24:44] <jbk> i don't think that's a particularly controversial or insulting statement
[05:25:00] <sleepcat> jbk: its not, all i said was i didn't like it
[05:25:07] <jamesd> sleepcat, well you were only kicked, you are not on the banned list.
[05:25:23] <sleepcat> jamesd: yeah, i think i'll stay out for a bit
[05:25:42] <sleepcat> i don't want to get on the "banned list"
[05:25:57] <sleepcat> a real tough crowd is #lisp
[05:25:58] <jamesd> being kicked in irc is like being bumped into in a popular bar on friday night... you say  "hey" and get over it..
[05:26:13] <sleepcat> i got banned from #lisp
[05:26:30] <jbk> it would be interesting if zfs can present a transactional interface to posix i/o operations (i.e. read(2)/write(2)) across multiple files in a filesystem
[05:26:33] <e^ipi> not enough parenthesis ?
[05:26:46] <sleepcat> e^ipi: no, apparently they don't like paul graham
[05:26:47] <jbk> to see what it could do to the storage format for smf
[05:26:48] <jamesd> sleepcat, you would have to do a lot more than you have before you get banned on #solaris ... if you do /msg me and i will remove it...
[05:27:13] <jbk> since i believe it's current choice (sqllite) is partially to get transactional semantics
[05:28:08] <bda> sqlite is pretty great stuff.
[05:29:15] <jbk> but the opaque binary representation is one of the biggest criticisms I hear, zfs might eventually provide an answer to that..
[05:29:26] <bda> ?
[05:29:39] <e^ipi> it could replace mysql in 90% of the places mysql is used (and oracle or postgres /should/ replace the other 10%) i'm told
[05:29:58] <bda> e^ipi: That's not *really* true.
[05:30:54] <jbk> basically people accuse smf of being either the registry on solaris, or aix's odm on solaris
[05:31:09] <bda> Seeing as how the vast majority of MySQL installations are networked, so...
[05:31:25] <bda> But even ignoring that, I still imagine MySQL beats sqlite in terms of concurrency... Heh.
[05:31:28] <bda> jbk: shrug.
[05:31:35] <jbk> the biggest thing being an opaque, binary format that means none of the wonderful tools found for text processing in unix can be used to manipulate the data
[05:31:50] <sleepcat> postgresql has a bench mark that totally trounces mysql
[05:31:53] <jbk> as well as issues with 'what happens if it becomes corrupt' and general debugging concerns
[05:32:21] <sleepcat> when you get past one or two connections, postgres 8.2 beats mysql hands down now
[05:32:32] <bda> Heh.
[05:32:37] <jbk> however, my original thought was that it might be possible in the future w/ zfs to provide the things that sqllite is currently providing, while using text representations
[05:32:43] <jamesd> sleep cat and betamax was better than  vhs, benchmarks mean nothing its public acceptance that counts
[05:32:44] * bda looks at his mysql servers with 1500+ connex.
[05:32:51] <jbk> since sqllite is nothing but an implementation detail
[05:34:15] <bda> jbk: It's funny, we just had this conversation at work a few months ago. Co-worker 1 asks "But how do we get known-good snapshots of the sqlite file?" CW2: "cp"
[05:35:20] <jbk> does it use some sort of logging disk format?
[05:35:51] <jbk> otherwise i'm not sure how that could always be correct (without pausing the database or some sort of 'hot backup' mode)
[05:36:02] <jbk> well logging or cow
[05:36:32] <bda> They live on ZFS. But it's ACID compliant, so if the xaction fails, the file is not updated.
[05:36:35] <bda> iirc
[05:37:00] <bda> (We aren't actually using cp; I have rolling zfs snaps)
[05:38:20] <bda> http://sqlite.org/ac/atomiccommit.html
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[05:39:40] <bda> It certainly appears to be exhaustive. :)
[05:40:29] <bda> There are some annoying minor things.. like 'user' not being a reserved keyword. Which leads some tedious fixes in some trac plugins I use.
[05:40:33] * bda hates writing Python.
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[05:43:09] <jbk> heh
[05:43:18] <jbk> the 'big' app in my area at work is being written in python
[05:43:38] <sleepcat> jbk: what about sbcl?
[05:43:44] <sleepcat> lisp
[05:43:49] <bda> Heh, our sqlite usage is more than a little insane.
[05:44:02] <bda> We're using postgres as a glorified queueing system, and building indexes in sqlite...
[05:44:13] <jbk> heh
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[08:20:45] <bigjohnto> is there a new DST patch for solaris for 2007/2008?
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[08:45:32] <dlg> what do changers appear in solaris as?
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[09:10:39] <Symmetria> question, if I add an ip address to a zones config nad wanna make it come up without rebooting the whole zone, how do I do that
[09:17:59] <trygvis> you can use ifconfig from the global zone
[09:18:23] <trygvis> ifconfig bge0:17 plumb 10.0.0.1 up -z my_zone or something like that
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[09:20:10] <Symmetria> aahh thanks
[09:24:04] <Symmetria> heh perfect, (its ifconfig bge0 addif xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx up zone zonename btw)
[09:25:12] <Symmetria> damn I really should rotate my apache logs
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[09:38:18] <tsp> is there a way that I can clear my apache log without restarting apache?
[09:38:23] <tsp> while we're on the subject
[09:40:48] <bda> apachectl graceful
[09:40:57] <bda> Or a SIGUSR1, iirc.
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[09:51:34] <tsp> What does that do? I thought it woudl stop apache
[09:51:54] <tsp> I don't know what aprt of my system is responsible for clearing logs
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[10:00:15] <bda> logadm(1M)
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[10:14:52] <fuzzy> is there anyone around that has worked with xen and opensolaris available?
[10:15:12] <fuzzy> I'm wondering if they have attempted bonding on any of the network interfaces being shared to a xen guest
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[10:21:18] <p__m> i've got an opensolairs domU on a linux dom0 running
[10:21:36] <fuzzy> i'm talking using solaris as the dom0
[10:21:47] <fuzzy> doing bonding of a pair of net interfaces ( failover in this case )
[10:22:00] <fuzzy> adding the pair to a bridge
[10:22:09] <fuzzy> then snapping domU's onto that
[10:22:20] <fuzzy> in linux it doesnt' work because it doesn't read the Mii link data correctly
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[10:30:23] <smtms> are the utilities in /usr/ccs/bin on Solaris part of OpenSolaris?
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[10:43:19] <Fish> hello
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[11:12:24] <flyingparchment> where is krb5_cc_register() on solaris?
[11:20:25] <RealWickedWicky> somewhere, under the rainbow
[11:21:27] <smtms> nah, it's over the rainbow
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[11:21:31] <RealWickedWicky> oh
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[11:21:53] <RealWickedWicky> well damn, that's why i never find anything
[11:22:16] <jteo> true
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[11:26:29] <flyingparchment> ldap errors really suck.  "object class violation"
[11:26:48] <flyingparchment> of course the user has to work out what the violation actually is
[11:28:59] <jteo> users don't deserve to know what an error really mean.
[11:29:02] <jteo> *means
[11:29:14] <smtms> flyingparchment, for krb5_cc_register you might want to check the OpenSolaris Source Code Browser search
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[12:19:00] <jteo> wb cmihai
[12:19:21] <cmihai> Hey :-)
[12:19:55] * RealWickedWicky is off to Amsterdam
[12:19:59] <RealWickedWicky> have a good weekend all
[12:24:20] <cmihai> Well, have fun.
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[12:45:35] <Atomdrache> Okay, this weirds me out.
[12:46:00] <Atomdrache> I thought my SPARCstation's framebuffer was just weird, but I just saw it on another machine so it is probably software-related.
[12:46:16] <Atomdrache> Why is it that CDE's blank screen has this one white pixel that shows up in different places?
[12:46:52] <cmihai> The random dead/stuck-pixel game?
[12:46:59] <cmihai> Where's Waldo with pixels?
[12:47:36] <Atomdrache> CRTs don't get dead pixels too often, and if they did I wouldn't expect the one dead pixel to be white all the time but only when the screen saver is on.  But...I always see that in CDE.  It is mysterious and rather intriguing.
[12:47:37] <Tempt> Evenin' all.
[12:47:40] <Atomdrache> But have you seen that?
[12:47:41] <Atomdrache> Also hi.
[12:48:38] <Atomdrache> Isn't really much of a Where's Waldo.  Those are only fun whe Waldo's in a crowd.
[12:51:30] <Tempt> just bought another 880 on teh bay
[12:51:33] <Tempt> The joy of it.
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[12:51:41] <Atomdrache> 880?
[12:51:50] <Tempt> yep, another sun fire v880.
[12:51:58] <Atomdrache> Oh.  What do those cost?
[12:52:01] <Tempt> well
[12:52:02] <Tempt> $60
[12:52:03] <Tempt> !
[12:52:06] <Tempt> !!!
[12:52:07] <Tempt> :-)
[12:52:20] <Tempt> With no CPUs/RAM, but I really wanted it for the case to do some modding.
[12:52:51] <Atomdrache> Hmm...
[12:53:02] <jteo> lucky b.
[12:53:22] <Atomdrache> Would it be possible, starting with an empty stripped-down Fire from eBay for $60, to buy memory, CPUs, and RAM and get a good system for under $200, do you think?
[12:53:28] <Atomdrache> That would be cool.
[12:53:37] <Tempt> But man, $60 is a bargain just for the three power supplies, let alone the backplanes, disk planes, etc
[12:53:52] <Tempt> Well, I paid a lot more than $60 for my first 880
[12:53:59] <Tempt> and added my own system boards
[12:54:30] <Atomdrache> I keep hoping I'll see an Alphastation 500 on eBay for a good price.
[12:54:39] <Atomdrache> ...I really shouldn't want more Alphas but they're cool.
[12:54:39] <Tempt> Hmm, not common on ebay.
[12:54:43] <Atomdrache> I have seen them.
[12:54:46] <Tempt> Get an ES47
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[12:54:49] <Atomdrache> They were just like $50 more than I was willing to pay.
[12:54:54] <Tempt> They're the coolest Alpha ever.
[12:54:59] <Atomdrache> Eh, E-anything is out of my price range.
[12:55:08] <Tempt> Hey
[12:55:13] <Tempt> I only paid $220 for ES40
[12:55:42] <Atomdrache> Yeah, I felt like I was being very irresponsible when I bought a U80 for $250 plus shipping.
[12:56:13] <Tempt> I'm just annoyed that I paid $1200 for my 880
[12:56:21] <Tempt> and six months later the market was flooded
[12:56:26] <Tempt> and prices have hit the floor
[12:56:33] <Atomdrache> (I kind of needed it, but to this day I am constantly worrying that this thing I spent way too much money on will have some unexpected hardware failure.)
[12:56:46] <Tempt> Still, I'd say the $1200 on that 880 would be the best investment in hardware I've made in years.
[12:57:01] <Atomdrache> What sort of machine is the 880?
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[12:57:15] <Tempt> UltraSPARC III
[12:57:24] <Tempt> Mine is 8 cpus, 20Gb RAM
[12:57:31] <Atomdrache> Sweet.
[12:57:37] <quasi> III or IIIi?
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[12:57:42] <Tempt> III
[12:57:49] <Tempt> Big and solid.
[12:59:39] <quasi> so how the heck do I get this cluster to resync its time - I think it had the wrong time servers originally and now even after fixing ntp.conf, it still doesn't sync
[12:59:53] <Atomdrache> Crap.  Nothing on Google about the mysterious migrating and sometimes disappearing white pixel in CDE's screen savers.  ...I may never know the truth.
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[13:00:15] <Tempt> quasi: Ouch.
[13:00:23] <Tempt> SunCluster?
[13:00:28] <quasi> Tempt: yeah
[13:00:31] <Tempt> Should configure an NTP relationship between the nodes
[13:00:50] <quasi> it does have an ntp.cluster file
[13:00:55] <Tempt> It normally sorts everything out of the box
[13:00:58] <Tempt> How big is the gap?
[13:01:11] <quasi> and the machines are equally wrong
[13:01:20] <quasi> the two nodes agree on the time
[13:01:28] <quasi> just not with the rest of the world
[13:01:36] <Tempt> aah, well, having the two nodes agree is the most important bit.
[13:01:39] <Tempt> How far out are they?
[13:01:44] <quasi> 3 mins
[13:01:57] <quasi> less than
[13:02:16] <Tempt> Production or dev?
[13:02:35] <quasi> soon to be production
[13:03:30] <Tempt> okay, well...
[13:03:51] <Tempt> This is against all the official recommendations, but you can just twitch both nodes with ntpdate at the same time and it'll work
[13:03:58] <Tempt> and then shine up your NTP configs later.
[13:04:23] <Tempt> That's considered 'naughty' though
[13:05:13] <quasi> yeah, that's what I thought, but it keeps complaining about the ntp port being in use or something like that
[13:05:45] <quasi> no biggie - I'll get it eventually, it's just the bloody monitoring that complains
[13:05:52] <Tempt> shut down NTP
[13:05:57] <Tempt> hit ntpdate
[13:05:58] <Tempt> restart ntp
[13:06:14] <Tempt> svcadm disable ntp
[13:06:15] <Tempt> etc
[13:06:38] <quasi> except it seems to be running xntpd as well from the cluster
[13:07:03] <Tempt> I think the ntp svc is xntpd
[13:08:03] <quasi> I got S72sc_update_ntp S74xntpd_cluster and ntp:default
[13:09:19] <Tempt> well, figure out what you need to do.
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[13:13:36] <LeftWing> There's a switch for ntpdate to use an unprivileged random port, I believe.
[13:14:29] <LeftWing> (Saves having to stop the daemons)
[13:14:44] <Tempt> There's a man with the answers.
[13:16:22] <quasi> LeftWing: ah, nifty - thanks
[13:16:46] <LeftWing> =)
[13:17:51] <quasi> that's one thing I've bumped into many times before
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[13:52:29] <sponix> quasi:  Sempron 300+ x86 with 1G Ram, 6 x 500G ATA100, nforce2 chipset with gforce4 MX video - Media Share box running mainly vsftpd, and samba, SXCE, SXDE, or Solaris 10 stable
[13:53:15] <sponix> Its got SXDE on it right now, b70 .. Seems pretty to do pretty well after a few small work-a-rounds
[13:55:37] <echaz> sponix, raidz box?
[13:58:57] <sponix> echaz:  yep
[13:59:47] <sponix> 3 pci controller cards for 6 x 500G, one per channel
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[14:00:41] <quasi> sponix: ATA? not sata? wow, I thought noone did ata nowadays
[14:02:01] <echaz> quasi, I was looking at an additional 4 port sata controller, and I couldn't find one for under $300.
[14:02:11] <sponix> quasi:  Guess they do when they have 5 or more ATA100 drives laying around prior to SATA :P
[14:02:39] <echaz> the i is for 'inexpensive'
[14:02:40] <sponix> Next box will be SATA2 when I have the cash to build it
[14:03:37] <echaz> spon, do you use that graphics chip for anything, or was it just laying around?
[14:04:08] <sponix> echaz:  newegg.com has tons
[14:04:43] <sponix> echaz:  Box might encode a video && play one from time to time, nothing major though, the gf4 MX is built on board
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[14:05:17] <echaz> oh.... ok.
[14:05:48] <echaz> I have a similar (headless) box.
[14:05:58] <echaz> although, my raidz device is only 3 disks...
[14:06:11] <sponix> Box has an AGP slot, guess I could get a card, and might if I think movie playback needs it
[14:06:48] <sponix> I have close to 650G of Media right now, and I'm only half way through this deployment
[14:06:50] <jafari> hello good morninig all. i am running Solaris 10 6/06 s10s_u2wos_09a SPARC, i ran the Sun Update Manager, i click on check for updates it found 227 patches needed for my system, when i tried to installed them it seem like they failed: what does this mean
[14:07:21] <echaz> does anyone do tv capture on solaris?  I was thinking about it, but I don't know if the software or hardware support is up to it...
[14:07:38] <sponix> jafari:  I'm sure there are logfiles somewhere ?
[14:07:39] <jafari> 119534-13 SunOS 5.10: Flash Archive Patch Failed: One or more of the updates specified do not have entitlement permissions.
[14:08:22] <sponix> echaz:  I don't but I was just thinking the other day it would be nice to run ZoneMinder on the Solaris Media box for home security
[14:08:31] <jafari> you you run Sun Update manager before it starts it ask for root passwd
[14:08:44] <jafari> so i dont under what permission issues its having
[14:09:05] <jafari> sponix where else i can find logs on this
[14:09:10] <sponix> that 119534-13 up front might be an error number ?
[14:09:22] <jafari> that msg was actually from the update manager console
[14:09:31] <sponix> jafari:  could check it against an error number databae if it is
[14:09:39] <jafari> how?
[14:09:39] <FallenHitokiri> how long should it take for the setup to boot? i selected interactive text - console session, after reading zfs config: done nothing happens. i waited ~10min
[14:09:41] <sponix> s/databae/database
[14:09:46] <bengtf> looks like a patch number
[14:10:09] <jafari> whatswrong with the patch number?
[14:10:12] <sponix> jafari:  I'm new to Solaris, but I might recommend putting that number in google
[14:10:19] <jafari> dont get what you trying to tell me
[14:10:26] <jafari> ok
[14:10:40] <sponix> bengtf:  either way, looking that number up _might_ find a people with similar problems, and listed fixes
[14:11:14] <sponix> Or hell, could just put the whole other part of the string in google as well :)
[14:11:35] <sponix> echaz:  you find anything on working Capture cards with Solaris x86 let me know
[14:12:17] <bengtf> http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/document.do?assetkey=1-21-119534-13-1
[14:12:26] <jafari> ok i found the patch here http://sunsolve.sun.com/show.do?target=patches/zos-s10
[14:12:41] <echaz> lol spon, ok....
[14:13:37] <jafari> bengtf, ok
[14:13:42] <jafari> what next
[14:14:08] <jafari> is it saying it needs other patches before that patch can install?
[14:14:31] <bengtf> it could be that so try to install those it needs first
[14:15:37] <jafari> wouldnt the patch manager , handle what needs to install first before others
[14:15:46] <jafari> this update manager is garabage
[14:17:11] <jafari> might as well stick to manually installing patches this update manager doesnt make sense to me
[14:18:15] <sponix> Anyone in here have a dual or quad processor x86 box ?
[14:18:28] <sponix> I'm not talking dual or quad core either
[14:19:09] <LeftWing> I have a pair of Dual P3's.
[14:19:40] <jafari> do anyone use Sun Update connection manager
[14:19:43] <jafari> ?
[14:19:56] <flyingparchment> jafari: the gui one, or smpatch?
[14:19:58] <bengtf> dual core only now, dual proc is down (amd 1900MP)
[14:20:11] <jafari> the guii one, thats the one im using
[14:20:25] <flyingparchment> sponix: we have dual cpu systems, but they're all dual dual or quad core
[14:20:32] <palowoda> upgrade to SXCE and forget the patches.
[14:20:42] <jafari> does smpatch work the same as the gui
[14:20:50] <jafari> sxce
[14:20:53] <jafari> whats that
[14:21:16] <jafari> new OS?
[14:21:30] <bengtf> is what this channel is about
[14:21:39] <palowoda> what irc channel are you on?
[14:22:11] <palowoda> I swear people just bumble around.
[14:22:41] <jafari> i am on many
[14:22:57] <palowoda> If you want patch support why don't you buy a support contract and call them?
[14:23:45] <jafari> wheres jamesd, he seems like hes the only that can ever help me
[14:24:04] <jafari> palowoda F off, no one was talking to you
[14:24:39] <echaz> jafa, palo's comment is sensable.
[14:24:49] <jafari> i dont care
[14:24:56] <jafari> thats not what i asked for
[14:25:08] <echaz> are you 12?
[14:25:13] <jafari> if you cant help me than dont refer me to do somethign else
[14:25:27] <jafari> thats not what im looking for
[14:25:33] <Tempt> whinge whinge whinge
[14:25:36] <LeftWing> If you want to manage patches, try Patch Check Advanced (PCA) - Google.
[14:25:37] <libkeiser> jafari: have you tried #solaris?  this channel is geared to SX, and patching doesn't apply to SX
[14:25:54] <Tempt> and patch check advanced is the solution, yes.
[14:26:09] <jafari> so change the channel from opensolaris to SXCE than
[14:26:22] <libkeiser> jafari: opensolaris != solaris. learn your terminology
[14:26:39] <jafari> i never had any problems coming here and asking solaris question
[14:26:56] <jafari> jamesd always been good to me, im not new in this channel
[14:27:13] <jafari> i swear some of you irc folx are a bunch of squares
[14:27:15] <sponix> flyingparchment:  do you feel its worth the extra $$
[14:27:28] <flyingparchment> sponix: yes, it saves us rackspace
[14:27:42] <Tempt> jafari: If you don't like the answers you get, learn to ignore people with your IRC client.
[14:27:42] <flyingparchment> sponix: but it introduces problems with heat management (obviously two cpus produces more heat than one)
[14:27:53] <sponix> jafari:  wow... Think you need to settle down a bit, its just a failed patch -- not the end of the world :P
[14:27:57] <jafari> Tempt i guess i need to do sp
[14:27:58] <jafari> so
[14:28:16] <jafari> sponix, i dont have a problem with you
[14:28:29] <jafari> you been helping me fairly,
[14:28:31] <Tempt> jafari: a lot of the 'squares' on IRC are industry professionals who are a little sick of hearing the same questions and complaints.
[14:29:10] <jafari> Well, what are you saying im a Professional myself
[14:29:20] <jafari> so what
[14:29:30] <LeftWing> A professional Solaris administrator?
[14:29:46] <jafari> they going to hear it over and over if someone runs in the issue that they never ran in before
[14:29:52] <Tempt> Yeah, a professional Solaris administrator who can't understanding patching.
[14:29:52] <sponix> jafari:  jamesd is a good guy, and its nice that he can normally help you out. Just because others aren't able too or don't want to, doesn't mean you should talk bad to them
[14:30:05] <flyingparchment> when i grow up, i'm going to be a professional!
[14:30:14] <echaz> sponix, the ibm blades are dual cpu quad core for only $5000 each.
[14:30:25] <echaz> and as of recently they do support solaris
[14:30:28] <jafari> ok guys, no worries
[14:30:29] <LeftWing> flyingparchment: I'm not.  Can't play Office Ball and be professional at the same time.
[14:30:42] <jafari> im sorry fo rthe miss understanding and please forgive me
[14:30:45] <Tempt> LeftWing: multitasking!
[14:30:49] <sponix> flyingparchment:  me too... But I'll never grow up ;)
[14:30:54] <jafari> thanks for all you guys help and i apprciate it
[14:31:06] <LeftWing> Tempt: You can't multitasking while you're dodging high velocity stress balls moving in pseudorandom directions.
[14:31:09] <LeftWing> *can't be
[14:31:14] <sponix> echaz:  if I'm going to spend $5,000 and the box is work related, my money will go to a Sun box
[14:31:26] <Tempt> LeftWing: Aaah, high interrupt load!
[14:31:31] <LeftWing> haha
[14:31:32] <jafari> LeftWing no i am not a solaris professional if i was i wouldnt be in this channel asking for help
[14:31:32] <LeftWing> Rather.
[14:31:42] <echaz> but you get 8 Zeon cores for that.... sun can't compete with that
[14:31:49] <jafari> jamesd always told me before i go to #solaris channel come here first
[14:31:53] <flyingparchment> echaz: uhm, sun sells xeon now
[14:31:57] <LeftWing> jafari: Well I think that was the kind of professional Mr Tempt was referring to.
[14:32:06] <flyingparchment> in fact, sun will sell you 8 xeon cores *and* 8 hard disks in a 1RU server
[14:32:11] <flyingparchment> who else can compete with *that*? :)
[14:32:19] <jafari> and thast what i been doing, know that i see new people i never seen before tell me to do other thigns its pissing me off
[14:32:24] <sponix> all I can say is keep looking on the web for information about your issues, I have never done any patching on Solaris
[14:32:33] <bengtf> The best with beeing a professional is that you can play curling with obsolete removable disks in the office ;)
[14:33:15] <jafari> so basically i need to use Patch Check Advanced (PCA)
[14:33:19] <jafari> ?
[14:33:20] <Tempt> Yes
[14:33:25] <Tempt> just grab pca, and run it.
[14:33:32] <sponix> flyingparchment:  I'd hate to work on a 1RU with that much crap in it  though
[14:33:32] <Tempt> You will need a valid sunsolve login.
[14:33:38] <jafari> thanks a million, i didnt think that was hard to tell me
[14:33:52] <jafari> than tell me to buy support from sun i thought that was rude
[14:33:55] <jafari> but anyways
[14:33:56] <flyingparchment> sponix: the drives are all hot swap 2.5".  and two cpus in 1RU isn't really that crowded
[14:33:57] <jafari> thanks again
[14:34:08] <Tempt> Well, you will need a valid Sun contract loaded on your sunsolve account to get patches.
[14:34:20] <jafari> ok
[14:34:25] <jafari> well look in to it
[14:34:27] <sponix> jafari:  not really, that's what keeps Sun in business, hardware sales, and support
[14:34:28] <flyingparchment> s/patches/some patches/
[14:34:45] <jafari> ok
[14:34:55] <jafari> np, still luv you guys :)
[14:35:02] <bengtf> one reason your patch could be failing is that it tried to install something  that depended on contract and not a free patch
[14:35:13] <LeftWing> And if you're running Solaris in production, you ought to have support anyway.  Same goes for any OS, really.
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[14:36:56] <jafari> actually its my home box, got a few sparc systems from my job
[14:37:06] <jafari> have one running as a router/firewall
[14:37:45] <jafari> and yesterday i was looking for any patches that was out for me system, and i seen 93 that was for my system
[14:37:51] <jafari> notice none couldnt install
[14:38:12] <jafari> but ill try to get a key from my job, and install it home
[14:38:15] <jafari> no big deal
[14:38:32] <sponix> flyingparchment:  very sexy, how many gig are the drives 160G, 200G ?
[14:38:38] <sponix> Tempt:  since the topic is out there... So, you do have to fork over a little $$ to get a sunsolve account for patches, or is the account free you just have to register ?
[14:38:39] <flyingparchment> sponix: up to 300G i think
[14:38:42] <flyingparchment> sponix: 10krpm SAS
[14:38:57] <Tempt> sponix: Pay up.
[14:39:06] <jafari> i have one Sun Netra t1123 and T X1
[14:39:10] <Tempt> sponix: Most people in the industry have their employers pay for contract access.
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[14:40:11] <jafari> sorry Netra T1125
[14:40:25] <jafari> s/1123/1125/g
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[14:47:34] <jafari> ok since this is SXCE, can someone explain it to me ro send a like to the offical site?
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[15:00:53] <flyingparchment> hmm, directory server doesn't seem to support authentication with a kerberos password even if you enable gssapi.
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[15:00:55] <flyingparchment> that's kind of lame
[15:04:13] <LeftWing> It does suppose gssapi authentication, though.
[15:05:01] <LeftWing> i.e. you generate a ticket on your machine and provide it to the directory server via gss and, provided your principal mappings are configured correctly, it will let you bind.
[15:05:04] <flyingparchment> i want to login using my kerberos password in a web application from my desktop
[15:05:11] <flyingparchment> my desktop is not in the kerberos realm :)
[15:05:17] <LeftWing> It needn't be.
[15:05:31] <flyingparchment> the KDC is also firewalled and i can't reach it from here
[15:05:32] <LeftWing> ah
[15:05:45] <LeftWing> Unfirewall it. ;)
[15:05:45] <flyingparchment> (except via ssh port forwarding, but that's... less than ideal)
[15:06:01] <flyingparchment> no chance i'm going to put a kdc on the internet.. it has a security vuln every other week ;)
[15:07:03] <LeftWing> Anyway, the whole point of Kerberos is that you don't send your password on the wire.  Using it in a web application sort of defeats the purpose. ;P
[15:07:10] <flyingparchment> heh.
[15:07:17] <flyingparchment> i suppose
[15:07:17] <sponix> Anyone used X11 forwarding through ssh, I just read an article on it earlier today, it looked so simple. Never knew it was that easy
[15:07:24] <libkeiser> SPNEGO. 'nuff said
[15:07:44] <sponix> just turning on the option in sshd_config, starting a session, and then launching the apps that require X
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[15:08:03] <flyingparchment> sponix: works fine, but it sucks over slow links.  you'll want to tunnel VNC through ssh for that
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[15:10:11] <sponix> what's the best vnc for crappy links? I've used tightvnc, and it doesn't do to bad
[15:11:19] <sponix> flyingparchment:  with the X11 forward from ssh, it runs just the single app you launch instead of a whole X session though, riiight ?
[15:11:38] <flyingparchment> sponix: yes.  but you wouldn't want a whole session anyway, as it opens in your existing display
[15:11:53] <flyingparchment> if you want something vnc-like that runs single apps, look at DXPC
[15:12:04] <flyingparchment> it's an X proxy that applies protocol compression
[15:13:01] <Tempt> SSGD ;)
[15:13:07] <sponix> just looking into options, since my raidz box will probably be headless after the initial install
[15:13:10] <flyingparchment> when will ssgd be free :(
[15:13:13] <LeftWing> Tempt: If you can find a key. :P
[15:13:31] <sponix> so vnc or something similar might come in handy
[15:13:56] <Tempt> LeftWing: Indeed.
[15:14:23] <sponix> I'll be linked to it through a 10/100 local switch though, so it should do fairly well
[15:15:10] <LeftWing> 100Mbits ought to be fine for X11 forwarding.
[15:15:20] <flyingparchment> 10Mbit is probably fine for X11 forwarding
[15:16:44] <LeftWing> Mmm.
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[15:20:26] <palowoda> sponix: You might want to look at the VirtualGL project which incorperates turbovnc also. http://www.virtualgl.org/  the tubovnc might help on slow links.
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[15:26:10] <flyingparchment> LeftWing: the webapp and browser would both need to support gssapi to work, right?
[15:26:45] <LeftWing> Presumably.  Though you would usually get that sort of authentication from your browser or container.
[15:27:10] <LeftWing> s/browser/webserver
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[15:28:48] <LeftWing> Perhaps you can get the Directory Server to do some sort of pass-through authentication that backs off of Kerberos?
[15:29:51] <snoe> If you need Windows browser + AD support there are some Tomcat/JBoss filters that can work with microsoft's  browser
[15:29:52] <flyingparchment> hmm, i don't think the app will use container auth, it's a directory editor.. so it tries to bind directly
[15:30:44] <snoe> That is microsoft's proprietary CHAP authentication
[15:32:28] <snoe> It might not matter where the AD java code resides, it is a hack of the MS AD protocol
[15:32:54] <flyingparchment> snoe: no, this is mozilla and DSEE+GSSAPI
[15:33:57] <snoe> I get it
[15:38:12] <sponix> Honestly, whats the freaking diff between DVD-R and DVD+R ?
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[15:39:23] <flyingparchment> sponix: nothing at all
[15:39:31] <flyingparchment> sponix: nearly all writers support both nowadays
[15:39:36] <flyingparchment> (and readers)
[15:40:56] <sponix> so why the hell have 2 flavors ?
[15:42:38] <Sporq> so what's the deal with these windows branded zones?
[15:42:49] <echaz> it is similar to the hd-dvd vs blue ray thing.
[15:43:35] <flyingparchment> sponix: competing  vendors
[15:43:50] <LeftWing> Sporq: What Windows branded zones?
[15:44:09] <Sporq> sun's apparently going to do windows branded zones.
[15:44:29] <LeftWing> Where does it say that?
[15:44:36] <Sporq> i have my sources.
[15:44:39] <Sporq> ;)
[15:45:02] <echaz> Sporq works for sun?
[15:45:09] <Sporq> no.
[15:45:11] <Sporq> i wish.
[15:46:24] <LeftWing> I think Windows under Xen/xVM is more likely than a Windows branded zone.
[15:46:45] <flyingparchment> isn't xvm integrated with zones?
[15:46:56] <Sporq> maybe they haven't announced it yet
[15:47:07] <Sporq> i learned about it from my sun sales fellow.
[15:47:25] <jteo> windows branded zone?
[15:47:28] <jteo> wtf.
[15:47:31] <LeftWing> jteo: Indeed.
[15:47:40] <jteo> i dun trust sales folks.
[15:47:53] <jteo> Windows under Xen is far more likely.
[15:48:01] <LeftWing> Mmm.
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[15:48:25] <jteo> there is an impedance mismatch between zones (jails on steroids) and an emulator.
[15:49:11] <LeftWing> Unless a Windows branded zone is a zone with kqemu and a stock Windows image. ;P
[15:49:41] <sponix> flyingparchment:  yeah turbovnc is tightvnc with a handful of new code
[15:52:04] <sponix> Nothing like downloading 600+Meg at 4K/s to remind you of the old dialup days ;)
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[15:53:14] <jteo> 4k/s was a good speed back in those days.
[15:53:40] <jteo> how the dialup tone and connect screech of my blazing fast 14.4K US Robotics used to lighten my soul...
[15:54:10] <Tempt> the cheery boing-boing sounds of a v.34 handshake
[15:54:55] <jteo> before the internet, we had...BBSes!
[15:55:10] <jteo> TRADEWARS
[15:55:13] <Tempt> and public access UNIX dialups!
[15:55:26] <sponix> Sad part is I'm on a wireless network, I'm only getting 4K/s because I've exceeded my download limit, so it has me throttled
[15:55:48] <jteo> what archaic wireless network is that?
[15:55:55] <sponix> throttled at 4K is better than what it use to do, before it would just cut you off completely
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[16:02:21] <sponix> jteo:  one in Iraq
[16:02:46] <jteo> sponix: ah.
[16:03:01] <Tempt> still in Iraq, huh?
[16:03:11] <sponix> All Net in the Middle-East Sucks from what I've seen... All ISP's are Sat based, and must pass the buck down to the users
[16:03:32] <sponix> Tempt:  I can never get out of this forsaken place
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[16:03:51] <echaz> how much time do you have left?
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[16:03:55] <sponix> 6/8 Months, tops.. then I'm right back
[16:04:12] <sponix> echaz:  August 2009 current Contract ends
[16:04:25] <echaz> if they don't extend you.
[16:04:53] <echaz> can they bring you back for another contract?
[16:04:53] <sponix> I'm sure to be over past that...
[16:05:14] <sponix> They will put me on "Stop Loss" and then ship me over for another year+
[16:05:51] <echaz> Things should be different by Jan 2009
[16:06:38] <sponix> They don't have to... they put a "Stop Loss" on you, and just ship you over past your contract date
[16:07:18] <sponix> We call it the "Backdoor Draft" since they are keeping you past your contract date, against your will
[16:08:25] <sponix> SGM was trying to get me to sign off on a new contract today... Really trying to put that off... Never get to see my wife and kids as it is
[16:08:53] <echaz> do they give you a hard time if you say no?
[16:09:30] <sponix> Yeah.. Honestly they do, in their own way
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[16:12:12] <sponix> Anyone have $3,000 so I can buy another computer ?
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[16:12:36] <Tempt> haha
[16:13:12] <nachox> morning
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[16:20:49] <Tempt> sponix: You should get a nokia 770
[16:21:04] <Tempt> sponix: Very cheap now and probably ideal if you're in the end of a wifi connection in Iraq.
[16:22:02] <sponix> And a Nokia 770 Has service in Iraq ?
[16:22:15] <echaz> lol.
[16:22:31] <Tempt> it talks wifi
[16:22:36] <Tempt> nothing else
[16:22:40] <Tempt> (oh, and bluetooth)
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[16:23:19] <sponix> Yeah... No match for Concrete Barriers though, is it ;)
[16:23:32] <Tempt> Probably more resilient than a laptop
[16:23:38] <Tempt> and at under $200 cheaper to lose ;)
[16:23:45] <sponix> I have to put a Wireless Bridge 20ft in the air to get reception ATM
[16:23:54] <Tempt> oh joy.
[16:24:00] <nachox> should i be worried when i see something like: http://pastebin.com/m19c9b594
[16:24:16] <sponix> Switch -> POE Injector -> Wireless Bridge on Metal Pole above the Concrete Barriers
[16:25:07] <sponix> Well, its getting late... I have to masturbate and get to bed
[16:25:16] <echaz> bye.
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[16:32:19] <nachox> hmm, how come visual panels look so much different than the screenshots in the web page?
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[16:44:00] <flyingparchment> where is the Java keystore in Solaris?
[16:50:55] <trygvis> the default is as always under the JVM installation
[16:51:07] <trygvis> but you can also give it an alternative location
[16:51:18] <flyingparchment> hmm, so i shouldn't modify the default one?
[16:52:35] <trygvis> depends on what yoyu're tryign to do
[16:53:25] <flyingparchment> i want to trust some local SSL certificates not signed by a CA Java knows about
[16:54:17] <trygvis> aha. then you should probably modify the JVM's installation
[16:54:30] <flyingparchment> and that won't be overwritten when i upgrade the jvm?
[16:55:14] <trygvis> not sure. it also depends on how you upgrade
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[17:01:55] <nachox> sxde doesnt have the cpu scalling stuff for intel yet right?
[17:06:11] <nachox> hmm, aparently it does support it
[17:10:32] <nachox> it there a way to force it to scale down?
[17:11:53] <ofu> frkit only works for me if i disable smp
[17:12:08] <ofu> kstat cpu_info shows you actual speed
[17:12:36] <nachox> it's running at full speed
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[17:13:27] <nachox> powernow failed to attach here
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[17:15:39] <nachox> how do you disable smp?
[17:16:41] <ofu> set use_mp = 0 to /etc/system
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[17:25:46] <jamesd> hmm  mr. ksh isn't around...  i have a nice bug entry right up his alley ....   find the bug in the ksh script   http://uadmin.blogspot.com
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[17:26:58] <flyingparchment> answer is simple: bugs in ksh scripts are impossible
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[17:37:30] <nachox> even disabling smp, i get devfsadm: driver failed to attach: powernow
[17:38:36] <nachox> this is an intel box laptop btw, but i thought it worked by now
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[17:45:43] <nachox> stevel: you have an sony laptop with a core2 proc right?
[17:45:54] <stevel> nachox: used to - had to give it back when i left Sun
[17:46:16] <nachox> did you have to do anything special to get powernow working?
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[17:46:46] <stevel> yeah - uninstall it and use the built in power management nevada has instead :)
[17:47:15] <nachox> which build? i'm using sxde which i think is 70b
[17:47:30] <jteo> wait.
[17:47:33] <jteo> Sun gives out vaios?
[17:47:40] <nachox> haha
[17:47:49] <stevel> nachox: i think it went into 71
[17:48:05] <stevel> but it had some bugs wrt cpu throttling on core2's that were fixed in 72 or 73?
[17:48:11] <jteo> and stevel left?!
[17:48:21] <jteo> wtf is Songbird giving out?
[17:48:23] <stevel> jteo: yeah, a few weeks ago
[17:48:24] <jteo> (joking)
[17:48:29] <stevel> heh
[17:48:37] <nachox> jteo: where have you been?
[17:48:52] <jteo> nachox: drudgery of day job and marriage.
[17:49:21] <nachox> jteo: no,no, it's either marriage or work, never both
[17:49:42] <stevel> nachox: clearly you aren't both married & employed ;-)
[17:50:01] <nachox> obviously not, i chose employment :P
[17:50:45] <jteo> wtf
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[17:52:37] <nachox> well, i guess i'll just have to download SXCE at work...
[17:54:12] <jteo> excellent choice.
[17:57:35] <nachox> i could download it at home,but that would mean having to put up with my brother complaining about a slow connection...
[17:58:11] <bengtf> downloading sxce is uncomplainable ;)
[17:59:15] <nachox> it keeps growing and growing and growing
[18:01:33] <stevel> ... and yet it still comes with no default porn stash
[18:01:36] <stevel> shameful really
[18:01:47] <stevel> 3.5 gigs, and no good games or porn
[18:03:01] <nachox> stevel: that is a great idea, what about creating a porn&games community at opensolaris? with the aim of including as much porn or games as useless software there is in SXCE
[18:03:20] <sickness> omfglol
[18:03:23] <stevel> sounds good to me.
[18:03:33] <stevel> i'd get more use out of porn shipping with SXCE than i would with the update manager crap
[18:03:36] <stevel> or java webconsole
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[18:04:08] <nachox> nono, we could use the update manager to update our JAVAporn package
[18:04:33] <sickness> ghgh
[18:04:34] <Tempt> But how would you cater to all user's needs for porn?
[18:05:12] <nachox> that's why we need all that space
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[18:07:45] <g4lt-mordant> I say we prepackage porn in PI's format
[18:08:28] <g4lt-mordant> give the users a choice, blondes, redheads, brunettes, kinky, goatse, etc
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[18:10:17] <truaddict> hi all
[18:10:57] <Tempt> Hmm, does TruAddict go with Tru64 and TruCluster?
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[18:11:53] <truaddict> =)) no
[18:12:42] <nachox> cool, suspend-to-ram for the ultra-20 next week
[18:12:51] <Tempt> nifty.
[18:12:54] <Tempt> Hang on ...
[18:12:59] <Tempt> The Ultra-20 is a desktop.
[18:13:04] <nachox> and?
[18:13:06] <Tempt> Why do we need fancy suspend?
[18:13:14] <truaddict> what do you think about opensolaris on laptop? it is worth installing it? or linux os will be better for laptop?
[18:13:29] <nachox> Tempt: ask gdamore...
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[18:13:46] <Tempt> truaddict: In my experience, Windows is better on a laptop (eek!)
[18:14:08] <nachox> Tempt: you traitor ...:P
[18:14:10] <Tempt> Honestly, a month ago I fixed the Windows install on my lifebook
[18:14:20] <truaddict> no windows please:) now i have linux
[18:14:29] <Tempt> and having used that machine every day for over two weeks, I'd say I actually increased productivity over linux.
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[18:14:59] <Tempt> better battery life, more responsive performance, full support for all the hardware...
[18:15:06] <jteo> OS X?
[18:15:17] <truaddict> all this works fine on my laptop with ubuntu
[18:15:18] <Tempt> Been there, done that.
[18:15:32] <Tempt> Tried installing OS X on my Lifebook but it was too slow.
[18:15:35] <g4lt-mordant> truaddict, I have no issues with opensolaris on my craptop
[18:16:05] <Tempt> Ubuntu just felt sluggish and it was too annoying to have to re-integrate all the hardware support mods after an upgrade.
[18:16:27] <g4lt-mordant> but then in my case it was the only thing not running it at the time
[18:16:31] <Tempt> Windows + Cygwin = good enough
[18:16:49] <nachox> i just need cpu scalling and solaris is good enough for my laptop needs, which means SXCE is ok
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[18:17:00] <truaddict> does opensolaris have all powersaving things ubuntu linux has? for example cpu speedstepping, hibernate, suspend?
[18:17:04] <jteo> there was a period in time when all i used Windows for was to Putty into my cluster at the uni.
[18:17:27] <Tempt> jteo: Not far off being what I use Windows on my craptop for. Running a browser and putty
[18:17:33] <Tempt> cygwin from time to time for local work
[18:18:41] <nachox> truaddict: suspend is being worked on atm, cpu scalling works in recent nevada builds, i dont really know what's the difference between hibernate and suspend.. :)
[18:19:24] <truaddict> :) hibernate = suspend-to-disk, suspend = suspend-to-ram
[18:19:36] <Tempt> Working hibernate support is very handy.
[18:19:40] * stevel suspects hibernate would be easier to get working
[18:19:45] <Tempt> Another reason I ditched linux.
[18:20:38] <truaddict> what is opensolaris good for? You opinion? Java developing? someting else?
[18:20:56] <Tempt> Hey, I use Solaris or OpenSolaris on all my real computers.
[18:21:03] <Tempt> Just not on the craptop.
[18:21:08] <nachox> you are in an opensolaris related channel, what answer are you expecting?
[18:21:13] <truaddict> :)
[18:21:41] <truaddict> answer will be: for all needs solaris is the best? :)
[18:21:57] <Tempt> The machine I'm using right now provides a happy home for at least six regular users, doing all sorts of things
[18:22:10] <nachox> no, solaris is a pile of sh*t and this channel is full of l... ;)
[18:22:18] <nachox> hehe
[18:22:21] <truaddict> :)
[18:22:30] <nachox> just joking
[18:22:45] <jteo> suspend is easy.
[18:22:51] * nachox fears stevel's wrath
[18:22:52] <Tempt> I tend to hold that Solaris is best for everything except running Windows applications :)
[18:23:07] <stevel> i have been more cavalier about kicking people lately
[18:23:15] <stevel> our channel doesn't have enough fun kicks
[18:23:53] <g4lt-mordant> yeah, opensolaris slices! it dices! it even juliennes! and if you act right now, we'll even throw in FOR FREE zfs, that's a $99.99 value, absolutely free.  and if you call in the next 30 min we'll even as a bonus send you dtrace absolutely free, what more value can you get?
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[18:24:22] <Tempt> Wow, that's a great deal g4lt-mordant, but what about virtualisation? How can OpenSolaris help me there?
[18:24:27] * Tempt smiles
[18:24:28] <truaddict> :) recently i've ordered solaris express developer edition for free
[18:24:38] <jamesd> Tempt, well if it aint production, i think linux is better for small  systems with light work loads....   sorry but  solaris 10 barely runs on a  p3 600 with 384MB of ram
[18:24:52] <jteo> ZFS is like VXFS++++++, for FREE
[18:24:59] <jteo> (hyperbole)
[18:25:00] <Tempt> Yeah, linux crashes so much faster...
[18:25:13] <g4lt-mordant> I'm glad you asked tempt, because if you act now, you can even get xen at no additional cost!
[18:25:40] <stevel> <cough>xVM</cough>
[18:25:49] <g4lt-mordant> call now, operators are standing by
[18:25:51] <Tempt> Wow, g4lt-mordant, that's exciting value. Do I understand that if I order today, I can get zones for lightweight virtualisation with almost no overhead?
[18:25:52] <jteo> wait.
[18:25:57] <jteo> is xVM the marketing name for Xen?
[18:26:11] <nachox> yes
[18:26:24] <bengtf> Xen protected name now
[18:26:29] <nachox> you cant actually use the Xen name even if you use xen
[18:26:46] <g4lt-mordant> why yes, you can, you even geet brandz, an entire virtualized linux environment, so you don't have to stop your awful linux habit cold turkey
[18:27:01] <Tempt> jamesd: I don't mean to be dismissive, but do we really need to worry about P3-600s with 384Mb of RAM these days?
[18:27:20] <nachox> Tempt: we use crappier hardware for our small firewalls
[18:27:21] <Tempt> I understand keeping interesting (=non x86) hardware alive, but a p3? Blergh.
[18:27:24] <bengtf> why yes even solaris8 will be available in a brandz
[18:27:48] <truaddict> what about 1,5 pentium-M with 768 Mb of ram? :)
[18:28:25] <bengtf> I wouldnt run anything on less than 2G
[18:28:36] <truaddict> 8-)
[18:28:41] <nachox> this laptop is running fine with 1gb
[18:28:42] <g4lt-mordant> truaddict, that's not much off of my craptop's specs, and it works fine (I'm stuck in 1/G ram :(
[18:28:52] <g4lt-mordant> 1/2G even
[18:28:53] <Tempt> Oh, make it real, who uses machines with less than 8Gb these days? <grin>
[18:29:19] <truaddict> nobody of course :)
[18:29:26] <g4lt-mordant> 60k ought to be enoug for anyone ;P
[18:29:33] <g4lt-mordant> 640k
[18:29:56] * g4lt-mordant is getting REALLY tired of this broken type6
[18:30:03] <truaddict> did i say 640k? no, it was a mistake! 640 Gb will be enough!
[18:30:15] <bengtf> I remember when 64k was enough (idris,unixv6)
[18:30:54] <Tempt> I think Oracle alone is consuming around 4Gb on this machine
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[18:31:32] <g4lt-mordant> yeah, orrible has the tendency to suck ram, will to live,etc
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[18:32:06] <Tempt> Sadly, it's the only database I want to use these days.
[18:32:42] <nachox> Tempt: why?
[18:33:07] <jteo> why?
[18:33:24] <Tempt> Well, I find I always *have* to deal with Oracle in a work environment, so I might as well just use Oracle. Besides, less hassle than anything else and I haven't worked with DB2 or Sybase in a looong time
[18:33:33] <bengtf> oracle is like dinosaurs
[18:33:35] <nachox> posgres is good enough for small to medium deployments
[18:33:45] <jteo> oh
[18:33:46] <jteo> true.
[18:33:51] <jteo> Oracle experience is marketable.
[18:34:31] <Tempt> "oracle is like dinosaurs"
[18:34:34] <nachox> i agree there
[18:34:45] <g4lt-mordant> bengtf, more like crocodiles, god only knows why they're still there, but forget about them at your peril
[18:34:51] <Tempt> Giant and roaming the earth with a level of entrenchment that requires a giant meteor to unlodge?
[18:35:09] <Tempt> Oracle does so well because nobody else really has a better product.
[18:35:12] <flyingparchment>  oracle sucks, use mysql
[18:35:14] * flyingparchment runs away
[18:35:21] <nachox> oracle now offers a free limited produc right?
[18:35:39] <flyingparchment> nachox: only for windows and linux, but yes
[18:35:41] <nachox> flyingparchment: you should die a painfull death, anything but mysql!
[18:35:49] <jteo> Tempt: true. given that banks don't trust any other (i could be wrong, but that's my impression)
[18:35:57] <Tempt> jteo: Some banks trust DB2
[18:36:08] <jteo> same level of reputation.
[18:36:17] <jteo> :)
[18:36:28] <nachox> Tempt: then you actually pay an oracle license just to play with it?
[18:36:41] <flyingparchment> nachox: you can use oracle in "development" without paying
[18:36:54] <jteo> cos we ALL love sqlplus!
[18:37:05] <flyingparchment> jteo: i wrote my own oracle client :)
[18:37:11] <Tempt> But MySQL is an unfunneh joke; PostgreSQL is getting there but doesn't quite cut it; I'd swear Sybase is circlin' the drain ...
[18:37:17] <flyingparchment> jteo: it supports line editing and a non-lame output format
[18:37:32] <Tempt> flyingparchment: Made public?
[18:37:40] <jteo> flyingparchment: with great power...comes great responsibility.
[18:38:13] <g4lt-mordant> Tempt, you're looking in the wrong bathroom fixture for sybase.  remember microsoft had a hold of it
[18:38:14] <nachox> all hail to isqlplus
[18:38:31] <flyingparchment> Tempt: svn co http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/tools/skirmish
[18:39:04] <Tempt> flyingparchment: No documentation or details other than just check it out?
[18:39:14] <nachox> flyingparchment: not found :)
[18:39:24] <flyingparchment> sorry, http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/skirmish
[18:39:34] <flyingparchment> Tempt: copy config.mk.sample to config.mk, edit it, run make
[18:40:07] <flyingparchment> it has online help (type "\help")
[18:40:54] <jteo> truly a 21st century innovation.
[18:41:13] <nachox> the jds in sxde is a great improvement over the one in solaris 10, i'm very happy
[18:42:13] <nachox> i can even run compiz now
[18:42:28] <nachox> gay feature but still
[18:42:33] <jteo> compiz rocks
[18:42:43] <jteo> till you realise it doesn't work with certain java applets.
[18:42:51] <nachox> java sucks :P
[18:43:53] <Tempt> svn: URL 'http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/skirmish' doesn't exist
[18:44:12] <Tempt> pfft. compiz.. pfft.
[18:44:25] <flyingparchment> sigh.  really correct URL: http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/trunk/skirmish
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[18:45:08] <nachox> there
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[18:45:24] <flyingparchment> oh, you need boost.  download it from www.boost.org, extract it (no need to compile anything) and set CPPFLAGS= -I /path/to/boost_1_34_1/
[18:45:26] <truaddict> wow, looks like pizdec from russia? :)
[18:46:14] <nachox> i wonder if there is an xvid plugin for solaris
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[18:59:07] <nachox> sxde comes with an ld other than /usr/ccs/bin/ld ?
[18:59:50] <cmihai> nachox, why don't you look for yourself?
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[18:59:54] <cmihai> find(1)
[18:59:55] <cmihai> or:
[19:00:02] <cmihai> grep "bin/ld" /var/sadm/install/contents
[19:00:16] <cmihai> Lists all ld from a bin dir that were installed from packages
[19:00:52] <nachox> i am :) /usr/sfw/i386-pc-solaris2.11/bin/ld
[19:01:56] <g4lt-sb100> that would be gnu ld, masochism incarnate
[19:02:04] <cmihai> The stuff in sfw..
[19:02:05] <cmihai> what he said
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[19:03:35] * g4lt-sb100 really wants to see /usr/gnu, so I can be warned when the muskox noses into my life
[19:04:05] <bda> Heh.
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[19:06:37] <g4lt-sb100> of course, I'd also like to see /usr/ucb be relevant again so I also can be warned when I'm messing with theoware
[19:07:25] <cmihai> theoware :-))
[19:08:03] <g4lt-sb100> theere's just no real way you can point and say "see, this came from a BSD, it needs to go to ucb" like there is "see, this is on ftp.gnu.org, it needs to go to /usr/gnu"
[19:08:08] <cmihai> Meh. there's some stuff in ucb I tend to use, like vipw
[19:08:37] <cmihai> Meh, Solaris tends to be.. messy.
[19:09:02] <Tempt> No!
[19:09:09] <Tempt> Solaris is not messy. Everything else is ;)
[19:09:23] <cmihai> There's the old SunOS stuff, the GNU stuff, the BSD stuff, the old Solaris tools, the horrible Java solaris tools, the admintool tools, the new Solaris tools (like dladm) and so on
[19:09:38] <g4lt-sb100> cmihai, no disagreements, I'd just like a real way that you can be warned.  as far as I'm concerned, anything sun wants to support can go in to solaris, I just wish they'd be better aboud showing the origin so I can make the choice
[19:09:41] <Tempt> Well, I got my bluetooth keyboard paired with my Nokia 770, so now I can just ssh in and resume my screen session
[19:09:42] <cmihai> We have SMF but also keep legacy init, all that.
[19:09:44] <Tempt> Using it right now.
[19:10:16] <cmihai> You're typing from an internet tablet?
[19:10:28] <Tempt> yes.
[19:10:34] <g4lt-sb100> yeah, /usr/wtf is a good place for smc and its brethren
[19:10:45] <Tempt> ssh'd into a real machine, but it will run irssi locally anyway
[19:11:10] <e^ipi> /dev/null is the only good place for smc & friends
[19:11:29] <cmihai> Why is IBM able to develop a proper Java management console...
[19:11:32] <cmihai> for AIX
[19:11:48] <cmihai> While SUN, who practically OWNS Java, even call themselves Java are unable to use it?
[19:11:53] <Tempt> because so much of AIX config goes into the odb
[19:12:09] <Tempt> and a lot of traditionally text configurable items are db-only
[19:12:26] <Tempt> and smitty is still easier :)
[19:13:13] <g4lt-sb100> yeah, odb == registry for unix, such a bletcherous confusion of horrid concepts that many men's minds completely break upon hearing of it
[19:13:17] <cmihai> Well, their Java tool is pretty much like smitty, but with some additional stuff. Oh well. Even SAM on HP-UX is better than smc ;-\
[19:13:45] <Tempt> Urk, SAM, oh noes...
[19:14:02] <cmihai> Even scoadmin :P
[19:14:20] * Tempt thumps cmihai.
[19:14:35] <cmihai> Hey, at least it works :-)
[19:14:43] <cmihai> When was the last time SMC worked?
[19:14:52] <Tempt> I find Solaris to be perfectly managable with no silly tools.
[19:15:14] <g4lt-sb100> the last time I did a baremetal install, used smc to make a user and hid it back in thhe bowels of the system
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[19:15:40] <Tempt> smc to make a user??!??
[19:16:00] <cmihai> useradd works just as well..
[19:16:03] <g4lt-sb100> yes, it does the /export/home magic nicer than I do
[19:16:11] <cmihai> Magic?
[19:16:19] <Tempt> useradd does everything ...
[19:16:37] <g4lt-sb100> it even sets up the initial instance of /etc/auto_home?
[19:16:44] <cmihai> mkdir /export/home && chmod 755 /export/home && mkdir /export/home/cmihai && useradd -s /usr/bin/zsh -d /export/home/cmihai cmihai
[19:16:44] <cmihai>  && chown cmihai /export/home/cmihai && passwd cmihai
[19:16:53] <Tempt> cmihai: err
[19:16:58] <cmihai> I think I missed something :-)
[19:17:20] <Tempt> useradd -d /export/home/cmihai -m -s /bin/zsh cmihai && passwd cmihai
[19:18:03] <cmihai> Oh, -m :-)
[19:18:06] <bda> Heh.
[19:18:14] <g4lt-sb100> you do reealize that your recipie just went into two lines on IRC, compare this to smc, as ugly as it is
[19:18:17] <Tempt> your example doesn't chown ...
[19:18:54] <Tempt> smc .. hmm, two minutes of startup, logins, and then a hundred mouse clicks and random typing. I'll have my way, thanks.
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[19:20:40] <g4lt-sb100> also one other thing, I'll continue to use smc to set up users because it's easier to explain to n00bs how to run smc than to push them through the recipie explaining what you're doing
[19:20:54] <cmihai> Well, if you also want to add RBAC roles...
[19:21:05] <Tempt> answer: don't give n00bs that sort of responsibility
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[19:22:40] <Tempt> oh noes.
[19:23:00] <Tempt> WickedWicky: What's up?
[19:23:23] <nachox> hopefully visual panels will replace smc one day, that thing should just die
[19:25:40] <cmihai> Meh, if smc was like wsm it wouldn't be so bad for adding roles, partitioning, software RAID stuff and so on.
[19:26:27] <cmihai> They started nice with the ZFS Java thing, localhost:6789.. it spills out info like wsm so it's also educational... I think I've seen a Containers one too... but where are the rest?
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[19:28:55] <flyingparchment> are there any recognised SSL cert vendors who offer free certificates?  (other than cacert)
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[19:31:31] * oninoshiko doubts it
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[19:32:29] <Tempt> cacert?
[19:33:06] <flyingparchment> Tempt: www.cacert.org, free ssl certificates
[19:33:19] <flyingparchment> (problem: their root cert isn't widely installed in browsers &c)
[19:34:34] <Tempt> so they're effectively useless.
[19:35:15] <cmihai> You can become a root CA yourself you know
[19:35:26] <flyingparchment> i know, but my certificate isn't widely installed either :)
[19:35:31] <cmihai> Just deploy a cert server within your company and import the certs
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[19:35:49] <flyingparchment> none of my users are in our company
[19:35:53] <nachox> or put up with the user complaints
[19:35:59] <cmihai> And get a single external cert from Verisign for your website
[19:36:16] <cmihai> Look, you don't really need more than 1 cert.
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[19:40:23] <flyingparchment> i don't see 'external certificate' on their website
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[19:47:12] <nachox> bah, i cannot find a way to import a plugin in gstreamer...
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[20:08:04] <flyingparchment> hmm, godaddy provide free certs for open source projects
[20:08:06] <flyingparchment> that'll do ;)
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[20:09:28] <smtms> flyingparchment, what kind of open source project are you into?
[20:09:35] <flyingparchment> smtms: wikipedia
[20:09:38] <flyingparchment> (we host it)
[20:10:07] <FallenHitokiri> what can be the reason that I can ping the ip of my router/dhcp/dns server but I cannot ping the system with it's name. seems like solaris doesn't recognize my dnsserver or doesn't use it. I added nameserver 192.168.0.1 and search home to /etc/resolv.conf
[20:10:16] <smtms> oh, didn't know that :-)
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[20:17:49] <Tempt> FallenHitokiri: check /etc/nsswitch.conf
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[20:19:56] <FallenHitokiri> Tempt: for what sould I look?
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[20:25:52] <FallenHitokiri> my nsswitch.conf looks like this http://rafb.net/p/lBmHBZ22.html
[20:27:36] <hali> FallenHitokiri: add dns to the hosts line
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[20:28:43] <FallenHitokiri> hali: do i have to restart something?
[20:28:53] <hali> no
[20:29:06] <FallenHitokiri> great. works :) thanks :D
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[20:34:20] <flyingparchment> Sun Java System Connector for MicroSoft Outlook, Multilanguage
[20:34:25] <flyingparchment> you'd think sun would know how to spell Microsoft
[20:34:45] <oninoshiko> why? its not like they make any products of note
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[20:35:37] <oninoshiko> (MS not sun)
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[20:36:23] <Tempt770> heh
[20:37:14] <nacho1> stupid router...
[20:37:29] <Tempt770> replacce it
[20:37:30] * oninoshiko gives the router an IQ test
[20:37:53] <Fuzzy> I'm wondering if anyone has attempted bonding on any of the network interfaces being shared to a xen guest in open solaris
[20:37:54] <Tempt770> What sort anyway?
[20:38:14] <timelyx> Tempt: you running 2006 or 2007?
[20:38:15] <nacho1> i saw a 3com that is ok
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[20:38:40] <timelyx> and have you tried microb? ;)
[20:39:11] <Tempt770> timelyx: is theree any equiv to /etc/release?
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[20:39:30] <timelyx>  /etc/osso_software_version
[20:40:25] <Tempt>   2006
[20:40:36] <Tempt> I've only had it a couple of days, haven't really hacked it around much.
[20:40:39] <timelyx> which week?
[20:40:57] <timelyx> browser.garage.maemo.org/news/6
[20:41:11] <Tempt> NOKIA770_2006SE_3.2006.49-2_PR_MR0
[20:41:33] <Tempt> How easy is the OS upgrade?
[20:41:40] <timelyx> do you have any data?
[20:41:40] <xinkeT> pretty simple
[20:41:50] <Tempt> not much.
[20:41:52] <timelyx> you're reflashing your device, so it's trivial and 100% guaranteed dataloss :)
[20:41:54] <Tempt> certainly nothing critical.
[20:42:06] <Tempt> much improvement?
[20:42:16] <timelyx> you generally want to upgrade early (i.e. before you grow attached to settings/apps)
[20:42:22] <xinkeT> if you have an SD card to backup to, it's simple
[20:42:31] <timelyx> xinkeT: *cough*
[20:42:40] <timelyx> for the apps that register backup information correctly ...
[20:42:51] <xinkeT> yes well, details :)
[20:42:53] <timelyx> for everything else, take a dozen Asprin and call me in the morning
[20:43:00] <Tempt> It's more the hassle of reinstalling apps etc.
[20:43:11] <timelyx> and i can't even remember if 2006 can backup the installed app list
[20:43:16] <timelyx> i think that was a 2007 feature
[20:43:31] <timelyx> note: it just remembers the apps, since you have to get new versions and the repos will probably be wrong :)
[20:43:34] <Tempt> I probably won't bother upgrading unless I find a compelling feature.
[20:43:39] <xinkeT> yeah.. i have an 800 with 2007 and just did an upgrade, and it worked pretty flawlessly
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[20:44:35] <Tempt> Noticed the 800s are coming down in price too
[20:44:38] <axisys> can I manage T3+ using cam manager?
[20:44:39] <timelyx> i have a 770 running 39 (the release before 49, see http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/8 for a list of releases) and won't upgrade it because the upgrade cost is prohibitive
[20:44:42] <Tempt> Might get one for a bit of variety.
[20:45:04] <timelyx> 240 USD, yeah, if i didn't have 3 n800s, I could imagine buying one :)
[20:45:11] <Tempt> Three, huh?
[20:45:17] <timelyx> i work for nokia :)
[20:45:20] <Tempt> Just leave 'em sitting around the house for convenience?
[20:45:21] <timelyx> on microb
[20:45:22] <Tempt> Aaah
[20:45:27] <timelyx> no, they come to work w/ me
[20:45:33] <xinkeT> timelyx: cool
[20:45:43] <timelyx> actually, i have an n810 proto home this weekend since they finally announced it
[20:45:47] <Tempt> Such a cool toy, especially when combined with my Stowaway keyboard
[20:45:48] <xinkeT> I'm looking forward to the n810's OS being available on the 800
[20:45:55] <timelyx> too bad there's very little sun here, so i can't test its best feature
[20:46:26] <Tempt> Is there a fully functional Java environment for the tablets?
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[20:46:37] <timelyx> i heard a rumor someone did  a port
[20:46:49] <Tempt> The lack of Java is my only complaint so far.
[20:46:49] <timelyx> there's no useful site w/ a package that i know of
[20:47:07] <timelyx> and you can't get normal plugins to run w/ opera (nokia botch), you'd need microb/minimo
[20:47:18] <Tempt> No Java means no SSGD which is pesky.
[20:47:29] <timelyx> single signon global desktop?
[20:47:39] <Tempt> Sun Secure Global Desktop
[20:48:02] <timelyx> anyway, the source for java is open, and there's supposedly arm bits there
[20:48:09] <Tempt> It'd be great to combine the two and get full featured heavy applications delivered onto the 770
[20:48:18] <timelyx> if you're interested in making it work, i can find people to help from our side (volunteer time)
[20:48:24] <Tempt> Can't imagine a full java working well in the limited RAM though.
[20:48:35] <timelyx> the strangest bit is that there's actually a java mode in the cpu
[20:48:46] * timelyx can't remember if that's from /proc/cpuinfo ?)
[20:48:53] <g4lt-sb100> so with my palmphone, which is running j2me, I can run SSGD on my phone?!  talk about UUUUUUGLY.  I'll have to do it
[20:49:21] <phs2_> #zfs
[20:49:54] <timelyx> anyway, there's no warrantee for os2007he for the 770
[20:50:05] <timelyx> the problem is that most people will write apps for os2007 or os2008
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[20:50:17] <timelyx> which means you'll either have to rebuild from sources for os2006, or ...
[20:50:45] <Tempt> I've got an xterm, vi, irssi and ssh. What else do I need? ;-)
[20:50:48] <timelyx> wrt browser, we're trying to release for 2006, 2007 (plus he) and 2008
[20:51:02] <timelyx> rdp, vpn, pinball?
[20:51:05] <oninoshiko> a Signifcant Other?
[20:51:05] <flyingparchment> Tempt: Sun Java Phone Call Provisioning System
[20:51:15] <Tempt> Oh, and I've got the cisco VPN stuff installed.
[20:51:20] <Tempt> and rdp/vnc
[20:51:26] <Tempt> and some other crap ;)
[20:51:33] <timelyx> oninoshiko: do they come in a nice shrink wrapped package?
[20:51:38] <Tempt> Is there a winning media player?
[20:51:49] <timelyx> i think most people get mplayer
[20:51:58] <timelyx> personally i don't believe in media
[20:52:04] <oninoshiko> i think ive seen some in ceran-wrap somewhere
[20:52:05] <timelyx> i'm betting on <video>
[20:52:07] <Tempt> have to seriously downscale any media though.
[20:52:18] <timelyx> Tempt: yeah, look into transcoding
[20:52:25] <Tempt> Too much effort.
[20:52:29] <timelyx> 400x240 is the sweet spot i'm told
[20:52:46] <timelyx> what you probably want is a UPnP server that does it automatically
[20:52:53] * timelyx wonders if anyone has done that
[20:52:58] <xinkeT> mythtv
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[20:55:59] <Tempt> The PDA manufacturers just don't seem to get the screen thing
[20:56:22] <sickness> flyingparchment: is that a just another marketing name for a sun distributed asterisk? :P
[20:56:35] <jteo> oh insomnia. -sigh-
[20:56:43] <g4lt-sb100> timelyx, actually, QVGA is where a lot of pda manufs want to go
[20:56:52] <flyingparchment> you know, i make fun of Sun Java *, but the actual products are pretty good.
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[20:57:06] <flyingparchment> if i was going to deploy an Enterprise System(tm), i think i'd use them
[20:57:26] <g4lt-sb100> jteo, neominder for you on line one.....
[20:57:36] <timelyx> g4lt-sb100: 640x480 = vga, right?
[20:57:41] <g4lt-sb100> right
[20:57:42] <oninoshiko> res
[20:57:43] <Tempt> Now, to insert the usual comment about Sun ONE Java Enterprise i.Planet JAVA Netscape Directory Server
[20:57:45] <oninoshiko> yes*
[20:57:48] <timelyx> and qvga = 400x240 ?
[20:57:53] <g4lt-sb100> QVGA is of course a quarter of that
[20:57:55] <Tempt> 320x240
[20:58:04] <timelyx> bah, math is hard
[20:58:07] <timelyx> the camera on the n800 afaiu is qvga
[20:58:10] <Tempt> 320x240 = too low
[20:58:19] <Tempt> 640x480 = too low after window decorations
[20:58:26] <Tempt> 800x480 = enough to get a usable terminal
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[21:00:42] <g4lt-sb100> Tempt, you do realize the pixel density you'd need to get that down to a 3-4" screen?
[21:00:59] <Tempt> g4lt-sb100: The 770 has an 800x480 screen
[21:01:06] <Tempt> g4lt-sb100: The pixel density is magical.
[21:01:06] <timelyx> g4lt-sb100: he has one in his hands
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[21:01:19] <g4lt-sb100> Tempt, and what's the screen size?
[21:01:26] <oninoshiko> why do you need window decorations
[21:01:29] <Tempt> I wish I could have that pixel density on a 30" LCD
[21:01:34] <oninoshiko> run whatever you run full-screen
[21:02:05] <Tempt> oninoshiko: Most PDAs have oppressive software that is covered in rice (cough wince cough)
[21:03:19] <oninoshiko> well, tempt, sounds like its time for you or me to design a PDA... and just as soon as i can lay my hands on the processor id use, I'll do it.
[21:03:38] <oninoshiko> well that and stop drowning in work -.-
[21:03:42] <timelyx> oninoshiko: anyway, apps that matter for nokia 770/n800/n810 can be full screened
[21:05:32] <g4lt-sb100> Tempt, uhm, most pdas are still newtons/palms
[21:05:41] <Tempt> newtons??
[21:05:44] <Tempt> Ha.
[21:05:58] * oninoshiko has a desire to fill a shipping crate with copies of "The Humane Interface" by Jef Raskin and hook it to a helicopter and then let them all fall out over a certain corporate office in Redmond
[21:05:59] <g4lt-sb100> yes, there is a pretty hefty base of newtons still running
[21:06:01] <Tempt> You mean most PDAs run WinCE, followed by Palms
[21:06:22] <g4lt-sb100> run is a bit strong a term for wince
[21:06:27] <timelyx> crawl
[21:06:33] <oninoshiko> wince
[21:06:38] * oninoshiko giggles
[21:06:38] <Tempt> I'd like a simple PDA running something like QNX/Neutrino
[21:06:53] <timelyx> Tempt: i have an audrey
[21:06:56] <g4lt-sb100> I still want the solaris smartphone, but that's just me ;P
[21:07:00] <Tempt> with a high-resolution screen and just enough CPU power to give a speedy browser and play video
[21:07:05] <Tempt> timelyx: Audrey?
[21:07:06] <timelyx> unfortunately it wants 110v and we have 220v here :(
[21:07:20] <timelyx> google: audrey qnx
[21:07:40] <vmlemon> 3Com web appliance device
[21:07:51] <g4lt-sb100> I really ought to get the newton back to useful, maybe get a wifi card for it
[21:08:00] <timelyx> Tempt: anyway, if you find a nice portable battery pack that outputs 110v american plug, let me know :)
[21:08:05] * timelyx needs to show the device around at work
[21:08:06] <g4lt-sb100> ebooks FTW
[21:08:15] * oninoshiko just wants an intellasys development board
[21:08:31] <Tempt> timelyx: I have one ;)
[21:08:41] <timelyx> really?
[21:08:44] <g4lt-sb100> in order to do that though, I have to #%^ get the notebrick battery to charged
[21:08:59] <Tempt> My Roland Alpha Juno-2 came with a wall-wart stepdown transformer.
[21:09:06] <vmlemon> I have a dead Newton MP100, here :(
[21:09:17] <Tempt> The Audrey looks cool.
[21:09:18] <g4lt-sb100> vmlemon, how dead?
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[21:09:21] <Tempt> Does it work well?
[21:09:34] <timelyx> Tempt: pretty well, very clean thumbable ui
[21:09:37] <vmlemon> Won't power on at all
[21:09:46] <e^ipi> anyone know of a way to shut set_fnames up?
[21:09:49] <timelyx> basically from my perspective, it has everything the ui team here at nokia is trying to do
[21:09:50] <Tempt> timelyx: screen res?
[21:09:53] <timelyx> 640x480
[21:09:55] <e^ipi> err, check_fnames i should say
[21:09:59] <timelyx> remember it's circa 2000
[21:10:04] <vmlemon> Even with a mains connection
[21:10:36] <Tempt> Looks nifty. Are they easier to get?
[21:10:38] * timelyx winces
[21:10:52] <timelyx> Tempt: in 2001 you bought them for 100 USD from tigerdirect
[21:11:01] <timelyx> today you'll probably need to use ebay
[21:11:02] <Tempt> And now they're kinda hard to find?
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[21:11:16] <Tempt> none on ebay in au, so I figure .. hard to find.
[21:11:19] <timelyx> dunno, i have mine :)
[21:11:33] <Tempt> heh
[21:11:41] <Tempt> I can't believe that PDAs have failed to evolve
[21:11:44] <timelyx> ebay here lists some
[21:11:55] <timelyx> http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=3com+audrey&category0=
[21:12:08] <Tempt> I would have though by now we'd have nice high resolution screens with decent battery life and a functional OS.
[21:12:32] <Tempt> instead the bulk of the market is QVGA/VGA crappy Windows things that crash daily and require recharging at every opportunity.
[21:12:43] <Tempt> and you can never find the featureset you want.
[21:12:48] <trochej> That's why I don't own a pda
[21:12:52] <Tempt> The Sharp Zaurus is pretty much the PDA winner.
[21:13:10] <Tempt> but those models are Japan-only and they're a bit bulky.
[21:14:22] <g4lt-sb100> Tempt, mostly because pda moved to smartphone
[21:15:09] <g4lt-sb100> and when they get evdo here, I'm going to get a new smartphone with all the bells and whistles
[21:15:25] <Tempt> and it'll run Windows
[21:15:26] <Tempt> and crash.
[21:15:50] <Tempt> Or you could lose some whistles and get a S60 phone
[21:15:58] <timelyx> Tempt: anyway, there's a buyitnow 3com audrey for $110
[21:16:04] <Fuzzy> isn't nokia releasing a new linux smart phone?
[21:16:13] <timelyx> Fuzzy: when?
[21:16:25] <Fuzzy> i'm not sure i just heard about it on /. not to long ago
[21:16:28] <timelyx> the n800 will be repackaged in 2008 (not sure when) w/ wimax
[21:16:31] <Fuzzy> you might try searching it
[21:16:38] <timelyx> but calling it a smart phone is um, probably a stretch
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[21:16:56] <Tempt> The N95 is most of what one could want from a phone
[21:17:13] <timelyx> Tempt: dunno, i'd rather an iphone or a treo
[21:17:20] * timelyx has absolutely no interest in an n95
[21:17:31] <Tempt> screw the iphone
[21:17:33] <timelyx> and nokia bought me a phone, it could have been an n95
[21:17:37] <timelyx> i chose the e61i instead
[21:17:46] <Tempt> e61i has a decent size screen
[21:17:47] * oninoshiko agree with tempt's sentement
[21:17:48] <Tempt> and the keyboard
[21:17:57] <Fuzzy> i want an iphone
[21:18:05] <Fuzzy> bsd on a phone
[21:18:06] <timelyx> Tempt: hey, it seems you're not wondering why i got it :)
[21:18:09] <Tempt> The iphone is just another apple fashion-statement thing with less function and more fancy form.
[21:18:22] <Tempt> and a non-replaceable battery, to make sure you get to buy a new one next year.
[21:18:22] <Fuzzy> ahh so you think
[21:18:27] <Fuzzy> i take it you've never owned a apple laptop
[21:18:33] <timelyx> Tempt: actually what puzzles me is why the e61i is listed as cheaper than the 9300i
[21:18:42] <timelyx> which i got when i joined nokia about a year earlier :)
[21:18:59] <e^ipi> Fuzzy: apple laptops are bog-standard PC kit
[21:19:01] <Tempt> Fuzzy: I've most definately owned an Apple laptop.
[21:19:12] <e^ipi> with EFI glued on for no particular reason
[21:19:12] <Tempt> Fuzzy: and I've learnt my fucking lesson - just say no to Apple.
[21:19:33] <Fuzzy> bah
[21:19:53] <timelyx> anything that's not a desktop is um, a mess when it comes to hardware support
[21:20:06] <oninoshiko> the older apple kit ive had was nice, but now that its nothing special, ill just take my Thinkpad, thankyou
[21:20:07] <timelyx> the dell laptop i got when i started didn't have a working fan
[21:20:14] <Fuzzy> i own a apple laptop, and it's also the only apple purchase i've made new, and for the amount of abuse i've put this thing through i'm very happy with the dollars i spent on it
[21:20:19] <timelyx> so it fried its ram and started bluescreening :(
[21:20:44] <Fuzzy> the last dell laptops that was given to me by intel brand new had every thing swapped out on it at least twice before 6 months had even occured
[21:20:47] <timelyx> but i've had dell laptops before, and i generally like them
[21:20:53] <oninoshiko> ive only had one problem, and thats a bad batt... the RMA process took 10 mins (including hold time)
[21:20:55] <Fuzzy> the gateway laptop i had loved to nuke ram
[21:21:09] <Tempt> Fujitsu Lifebook
[21:21:16] <Tempt> Why buy the rest when you can buy the best?
[21:21:23] <Fuzzy> i used to sell the crap out of those
[21:21:46] <timelyx> actually i had a toshiba satellite pro that i got around the same time as the audrey
[21:21:51] <timelyx> and those things really last
[21:22:00] <Tempt> Lifebook P1510
[21:22:03] <Tempt> fantastic.
[21:22:09] <Fuzzy> i had a tosh way back
[21:22:10] <jteo> concur.
[21:22:13] <Fuzzy> that was a decent laptop
[21:22:14] <Tempt> I might buy the 1610 when my salary sacrifice is due again
[21:22:16] <timelyx> 440cdt
[21:22:31] <timelyx> sacrifice?
[21:22:40] * oninoshiko has been using TPs for years now, i could not imagine anything else... although i was worried when the line transfered from IBM to Lenovo
[21:22:41] <Fuzzy> but when i started getting fujitsu's back with screws falling out
[21:22:44] <Fuzzy> i quit recomending them
[21:22:50] <Tempt> salary package the craptop in, has tax wins.
[21:23:07] <Fuzzy> thinkpads aren't a bad product
[21:23:12] <Fuzzy> but lenovo scares me
[21:23:26] <jteo> why?
[21:23:28] <timelyx> i just hate ibm keyboards and touchpads and their newer trackpoints
[21:23:38] <timelyx> which leaves me w/ a laptop i'd never want to use
[21:23:46] <Fuzzy> because of how dedicated they are to microsoft
[21:23:49] <Tempt> I've always liked the Thinkpad keyboards.
[21:23:53] <timelyx> what am i supposed to do, lug around a standard dell keyboard + dell mouse?
[21:24:02] <timelyx> Tempt: you must not use the win key
[21:24:04] <Fuzzy> logi dinovo edge
[21:24:18] <Tempt> Nope, don't use the Windows key.
[21:24:19] <timelyx> and you must somehow manage not to have the pageback/pageforward keys interfere w/ your typing
[21:24:21] <Fuzzy> over priced, but the first keyboard i've fallen in love with since the type m
[21:24:31] * timelyx bets Tempt uses an os where those keys do nothing
[21:24:32] <trochej> Help!
[21:24:33] <Tempt> Hey, nothing beats the M
[21:24:40] <trochej> My wife wants to pounce me
[21:24:42] <Fuzzy> go put your fingers on that dinovo
[21:24:44] <trochej> Hemkg sfz
[21:24:47] <g4lt-sb100> timelyx since this is #opensolaris, the winkye isn't exactly vital ;P
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[21:25:01] <oninoshiko> the trackpoint on my T60p is fine, and i like the keyboard... exempting that i cant get it pre-setup for devork and the "windows keys" need to die
[21:25:08] <timelyx> g4lt-sb100: yeah well, someone just needs to map it to something in gnome
[21:25:12] <Triskelios> g4lt-sb100: I like having zoom working
[21:25:49] <oninoshiko> i disable the touch pad... cant stand them
[21:26:02] <Tempt> Touch screen, man.
[21:26:05] <Fuzzy> hehe
[21:26:06] <Tempt> The only way to go.
[21:26:10] <Tempt> Hence liking my p1510
[21:26:11] <oninoshiko> fingerprints, tempt
[21:26:23] <Fuzzy> glossy screen doesn't work too well with a touch screen
[21:26:31] <Fuzzy> and fingernails don't help any of that
[21:26:34] <Tempt> I don't need to see my reflection in my screen
[21:26:44] <Tempt> glossy screen = CAN HAS MOAR GLARE PLS?
[21:26:49] <Fuzzy> no
[21:26:52] <oninoshiko> lol
[21:27:04] <Fuzzy> higher color definition which is something i do need for photoshop
[21:27:17] <Tempt> Wank, wank.
[21:27:28] <Tempt> With all that glare, how much definition do you get?
[21:27:30] * oninoshiko afks to get food again
[21:27:31] <Fuzzy> the matte version looked all washed out
[21:27:36] <Tempt> Except a good view of someone coming up behind you.
[21:27:38] <Fuzzy> i don't have a glare problem
[21:27:52] <Fuzzy> and i don't really get reflection either
[21:27:54] <e^ipi> and I don't have a drinking problem, i can quit any time
[21:28:04] <Tempt> e^ipi: beer?
[21:28:10] <oninoshiko> no water
[21:28:17] <Fuzzy> can't seem to get the whole cup and mouth thing down eh?
[21:28:21] <oninoshiko> noone can give up beer :p
[21:29:14] <oninoshiko> hrm... the line is too long
[21:29:19] * Tempt waits for his dual-core laptop with a 1600x1200 screen in a 9-10" tablet convertable weighing less than 1.2kg
[21:29:32] <e^ipi> in other news, I think i may have tricked this code in to compiling & linking properly
[21:29:40] <Tempt> preferably with 9 hours battery life
[21:29:54] <jteo> tis pony talk.
[21:29:55] <e^ipi> so, to hell with usr/closed/
[21:32:19] <e^ipi> yep, looks like it
[21:33:08] <timelyx> Tempt: i want a device that has a projector and a camera
[21:33:26] <Tempt> Nathan Barley style phone
[21:33:27] <Tempt> :)
[21:33:38] <Tempt> trashbat.co.ck
[21:33:56] <timelyx> i was at a chocolate museum in Cologne, Germany
[21:34:01] <timelyx> and they had such a system
[21:34:08] <timelyx> projector + camera to detect taps
[21:34:16] <timelyx> very cool
[21:34:29] <Tempt> I want a reactable as well
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[21:36:25] <e^ipi> i want a pony
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[21:36:56] <Tempt> Why? What good is a pony?
[21:37:03] <e^ipi> n/m
[21:37:09] <Tempt> ;)
[21:37:22] <Tempt> Everyone talks about wanting ponies, but I can't think of anything less useful
[21:37:37] <oninoshiko> an iphone
[21:37:38] <timelyx> Mule
[21:37:45] <e^ipi> heh
[21:37:56] <e^ipi> oninoshiko++
[21:38:08] <timelyx> aww
[21:38:18] <Tempt> WASP T12 Speechtool
[21:38:24] <Tempt> "It's well weapon!"
[21:38:42] <g4lt-sb100> Tempt, I think the fact that ponies aren't useful is kind of the point...
[21:39:58] <timelyx> g4lt-sb100: they're expensive!
[21:40:01] <timelyx> that has to count for something
[21:40:15] <timelyx> and they're pretty
[21:40:17] <Tempt> If I got a pony
[21:40:18] <timelyx> although they smell funny
[21:40:24] <Tempt> I'd have to get a dog and a big freezer
[21:40:43] <dark_matter> and when gas gets to $5.00 a gallon we will all want ponies, or bikes.   ;)
[21:40:48] <Tempt> then instead of having a pony to feed I'd have a long term supply of dogfood
[21:41:38] <flyingparchment> Unable to access a usable display on the remote system. Continue in command-line mode?(Y/N)
[21:41:39] <flyingparchment> y
[21:41:39] <flyingparchment> Not a valid answer.Please enter Y/N
[21:41:42] <flyingparchment> sun <3
[21:42:17] <g4lt-sb100> dark_matter, what do you mean when?  I sold my car when gas hit $3/gal
[21:42:37] <Tempt> Ha.
[21:42:46] <Tempt> I live in the city, so I don't have to even think about it.
[21:42:47] <oninoshiko> well its right... it told you to and answer Y or N and you answered y... which is defninately not Y or N
[21:42:55] <timelyx> dark_matter: come to europe
[21:42:58] <Tempt> They can crank the price up through the roof for all I care.
[21:43:01] <timelyx> it already is ~5 / gallon
[21:43:28] <e^ipi> in fairness, europe has trains and such
[21:43:31] <Tempt> I enjoy laughing at people who drive without any need at all and then complain about fuel costs.
[21:43:40] <oninoshiko> thats why im trying to buy a prius
[21:43:46] <Tempt> example: coworker lives next to a train station yet insists on driving to work
[21:43:49] <timelyx> e^ipi: trains that cost way too much
[21:43:51] <e^ipi> at least in my part of the world, it's driving or walking
[21:43:56] <kjetilho> USD 8/gallon here in Norway :)
[21:43:57] <Tempt> and then complains about petrol
[21:43:58] <Tempt> HA!
[21:44:09] <timelyx> heh
[21:44:12] <trochej> I walk to work. 40 minutes one way
[21:44:13] <Tempt> aanyway, offline time for me.
[21:44:19] <oninoshiko> its only too high when it make people change behavior
[21:44:26] <Tempt> See you all later.
[21:44:30] <e^ipi> vancouver's a bit better, you can get around the city with transit, but if you want to get to the subburbs , forget it
[21:44:31] <oninoshiko> buy tempt
[21:44:38] <oninoshiko> err bye
[21:44:44] * flyingparchment buys tempt
[21:44:51] * oninoshiko giggles
[21:45:10] <e^ipi> remember, when you buy foreign slaves, take their passports
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[21:45:16] <g4lt-sb100> e^ipi, get yourself a good bike and cut your human powered transit time in half or less
[21:45:17] <e^ipi> otherwise they might run
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[21:46:06] <oninoshiko> i did answer that to a comment from a former employer... "slaves have to be sold"
[21:47:19] <g4lt-sb100> did they sell you?
[21:47:26] <dark_matter> can anyone recommend good dual core hardware to run OpenSolaris on?
[21:47:33] <g4lt-sb100> niagra
[21:47:33] <oninoshiko> no, just went out of bussness
[21:48:09] <dark_matter> let me qualify dual core hardware for under ~1200.00 USD.
[21:48:28] <e^ipi> check the HCL, buy a machine accordingly
[21:49:08] <oninoshiko> seems to work well on the intel DG965RY seems to work for me
[21:49:22] <oninoshiko> or do you mean dual PROCESSOR
[21:50:01] <kjetilho> dual socket for less than 1200 USD is going to be a stretch
[21:50:09] <dark_matter> dual core single socket or dual socket with single cores.
[21:50:16] <dark_matter> yes I know.
[21:50:40] <g4lt-sb100> oh, dual PROCESSOR?  U60
[21:50:57] <oninoshiko> then yes, DG965RY seems to work well... single socket, supports Core2 Dou
[21:51:00] <oninoshiko> Duo*
[21:51:11] <kjetilho> why are you guys always going on about these treacle slow workstations off eBay?
[21:51:12] <oninoshiko> damn lisdexia
[21:51:34] <g4lt-sb100> kjetilho, if you can find a niagra on epay, I'd be impressed
[21:51:49] <kjetilho> I mean your Ultra 60 suggestion
[21:52:12] <g4lt-sb100> because it's under $1200
[21:52:33] <kjetilho> and totally not worth your while
[21:52:34] * oninoshiko cant arugue with that logic
[21:53:14] <flyingparchment> hm.. the JES installer is going to "upgrade" me from 119044-03 to 119044-02
[21:53:30] <oninoshiko> o.0-
[21:53:32] <flyingparchment> good to know Java can count properly
[21:53:52] <oninoshiko> must be a high value of 2
[21:55:17] <g4lt-sb100> kjetilho, bcause the U2 and U60 are effectively the lowest common dnominator for solaris 10+.  if it doesn't work on a U60, it's broken
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[21:59:42] <kjetilho> g4lt-sb100: sure, it's nice to train on, but not to use.
[22:01:06] <g4lt-sb100> for what values of "use" are you talking?
[22:01:33] <oninoshiko> it will work perfectly well for a number of tasks
[22:01:56] <kjetilho> yes, like an e-mail server with less than a dozen users
[22:02:19] * Tempt surfaces
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[22:02:32] <Tempt> kjetilho: You man an e-mail server with less than 10,000 users?
[22:02:32] <oninoshiko> DIVE! DIVE! DIVE!
[22:02:35] <g4lt-sb100> kjetilho, an email server is mostly disk bound.  I can make a 486 mailserver for 20K users
[22:02:36] * Tempt dives
[22:02:49] * oninoshiko giggles
[22:02:58] <kjetilho> g4lt-sb100: hah.  welcome to the 21st century.
[22:03:15] <kjetilho> spam and virus checking is *not* I/O bound
[22:03:27] <oninoshiko> the 99 years (by popular demand) of bad programming
[22:03:30] <g4lt-sb100> kjetilho, your definition of use there is a bit warped, because like I said a mailserver is ilterally a lot of disk reads/writes
[22:04:00] <oninoshiko> spam is easily delt with with simple grey listing, not a problem
[22:04:07] <g4lt-sb100> even virus/spam checks are just simple DB lookups/compares
[22:04:26] <kjetilho> but wh y bother with getting treacle when you can get a new system with 2.8 GHz Athlon X2, 2 GiB RAM and a terabyte of disk for the same price?
[22:04:37] <g4lt-sb100> show me a decent bayesian algorithm that's not disk bound
[22:05:05] <g4lt-sb100> because the issue there is the terabyte of disk, and you can atttach that to anything
[22:05:25] <kjetilho> oninoshiko: I wish.  it doesn't.
[22:06:02] <jafari> can anyone tell me why when i add the follwing share -F nfs -o rw,nosuid -d "homedirs" /export/home to /etc/dfs/dfstab when i reboot the server i still have to enter the share command manually?
[22:06:09] <kjetilho> I get a couple of thousand spams every day -- and we're using grey listing.
[22:06:20] <g4lt-sb100> give me a U60 with a terabyte JBOD and what ever you think your athlon can do will be done by my U60, with one exception, the vid card sucks, so video is out
[22:06:25] <jafari> this is on Solaris Nevada snv_48 SPARC
[22:06:44] * g4lt-sb100 really needs an XVR1000
[22:07:00] <Fuzzy> i could use a pair of x4500's
[22:07:09] <oninoshiko> odd... define 'spam' (ive heard some weird definitions)
[22:07:44] <Fuzzy> canned meat used for sculpting various elvis figures
[22:07:52] <oninoshiko> mmm elvis
[22:07:53] <g4lt-sb100> basically I have everything your theoretical system has already, with the exception that mu BOD is a little light, merely 500G
[22:07:59] <g4lt-sb100> my JBOD
[22:08:11] <kjetilho> oninoshiko: my e-mail address is all over the Internet, and hasn't changed since 1990.
[22:08:27] <kjetilho> so I would imagine there is no spammer without me on his address list
[22:08:34] <g4lt-sb100> and I paid $200 total for it so far
[22:08:52] <g4lt-sb100> so get that athlon system for $200
[22:09:00] <jafari> can anyone tell me why when i add the follwing share -F nfs -o rw,nosuid -d "homedirs" /export/home to /etc/dfs/dfstab when i reboot the server i still have to enter the share command manually?
[22:09:03] <jafari> this is on Solaris Nevada snv_48 SPARC
[22:10:35] <Triskelios> jafari: check svc:/network/shares/group:default
[22:10:54] <Triskelios> also, snv_48 is ancient!
[22:11:22] <oninoshiko> the vast majority are also not useing full email servers... anyone useing the offical MX for spamming deserves to have their MX blackholed... anyone sending mail NOT via the offical MX should be auto-blackholed
[22:11:55] <kjetilho> what are you talking about?
[22:12:04] <jafari> what command to use to check it
[22:12:23] <g4lt-sb100> jafari, svcs -a|grep shares
[22:12:38] <jafari> returned nothing
[22:13:01] <g4lt-sb100> well then svcs -a and manually search
[22:13:12] <kjetilho> oninoshiko: the incoming server (MX) has *no* relation to the outgoing server
[22:13:48] <kjetilho> it will typically only be a match on single server installations
[22:14:44] <jafari> nothing not listing of svc:/network/shares/group:default
[22:16:22] <g4lt-sb100> is nfs/server enabled?
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[22:20:03] <jafari> yup
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[22:21:27] <oninoshiko>    A relay SMTP server is usually the target of a DNS MX record that
[22:21:27] <oninoshiko>    designates it, rather than the final delivery system.  The relay
[22:21:27] <oninoshiko>    server may accept or reject the task of relaying the mail in the same
[22:21:27] <oninoshiko>    way it accepts or rejects mail for a local user.  If it accepts the
[22:21:27] <oninoshiko>    task, it then becomes an SMTP client, establishes a transmission
[22:21:28] <oninoshiko>    channel to the next SMTP server specified in the DNS (according to
[22:21:29] <oninoshiko>    the rules in section 5), and sends it the mail.
[22:22:00] <oninoshiko> RFC 2821
[22:22:09] <oninoshiko> (sorry, that was suppose to be one line
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[22:28:15] <kjetilho> oninoshiko: it doesn't explain your statement
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[22:31:01] <Triskelios> jafari: maybe your system predates SMF management of shares...
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[22:33:13] <oninoshiko> if the machine the email coming from is neither in your domain, nor has an MX for the domain it is coming from, its probably not an email you should be accepting. Any valid relay server should have an MX, anything not coming from a valid relay for the domain sould expect to be refused
[22:34:10] <Mdx4> oninoshiko: i don't see MUST as RFC terminology ;)
[22:34:13] * flyingparchment grr ldap
[22:34:42] <oninoshiko> its not a must, but it should be
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[22:35:05] <dark_matter> snarf1234
[22:35:10] <Mdx4> oninoshiko: i see more a MAY still in the RFC terminology ;)
[22:35:43] <oninoshiko> my server is free to refuse a message for any reason i see fit
[22:36:04] <oninoshiko> not comming from a resonable source is valid
[22:36:51] <Mdx4> not according the RFC :) also a client could relay directly to the destination server.
[22:37:18] <oninoshiko> it could, but i will refuse it. its not a source i trust
[22:37:24] <flyingparchment> oninoshiko: why would you assume an outgoing SMTP server has an MX record anywhere?
[22:43:11] <oninoshiko> because they almost always do, and the RFC says they usually do. I know that historically a number of ISP do this in practice.
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[22:59:05] <Mdx4> oninoshiko: you have to not relay probably but you have to receive mail :)
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[23:09:31] <axisys_> my home dir is about 30G .. what is the best way to transfer it to another system on same private netwok? nc or star ?
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[23:13:02] <Triskelios> axisys: rsync or zfs send
[23:14:09] <axisys_> its not zfs.. i am looking for someway to transfer data using multiple channels may be.. rsync would be fatser than netcat or star .. i think star offers some threading
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