[00:00:08] <WickedWicky> I think you're kinda screwed
[00:00:18] <FBdev> WickedWicky well they are under cluster but they panic in non cluster mode too : )
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[00:01:12] <FBdev> WickedWicky if I could just wipe the zfs info ... like an fmthard would do on
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[00:01:44] <WickedWicky> you could destroy the slices or disks that are part of the pool
[00:01:47] <WickedWicky> get rid of the metadata
[00:01:54] <WickedWicky> nothing for zpool import to be found
[00:02:22] <WickedWicky> assuming you mentioned trying zpool destroy you dont care for what was on it
[00:02:35] <flyingparchment> jbk: solved it - ipf uses the system protocols database, which was set to ldap, but the ldap directory was empty
[00:02:50] <FBdev> WickedWicky  absolutly i did not get the timne to put anything on it ..
[00:03:15] <WickedWicky> so, you could try to newfs the slices, or relabel/reformat the disks
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[00:04:02] <WickedWicky> it's dirty but I dont see a documented feature for importing zpools without not mounting them
[00:04:53] <Sporq> can you use zfs for the system disks yet?
[00:05:42] <Triskelios> Sporq: in SX, yes
[00:06:00] <WickedWicky> I see a xfs_stage1_5 so I guess
[00:06:00] <FBdev> WickedWiky I'll dd random crap on them as a revenge : )
[00:06:10] <Sporq> i must say, this updated installer is quite nice.
[00:07:42] <FBdev> WickedWicky thanks for your time
[00:19:43] <WickedWicky> np
[00:20:13] <g4lt-mordant> Sporq, still X86 only FWIH
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[01:05:17] <l1s> http://mirrors.playboy.com/Blastwave/ ?!? good to know...
[01:07:48] <g4lt-mordant> l1s, ssssshhh.  you'll blow my secret.  it makes a GREAT way for explaining all of the traffic to playboy.com from your worksite ;P
[01:10:26] <l1s> are there any screensavers reporsitys for cde?!?
[01:11:00] <Triskelios> xscreensaver will work in cde
[01:11:09] <l1s> ah
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[01:14:41] <g4lt-mordant> it's just not in $PATH, so you have to supply /path/to/xscreensaver
[01:15:02] <g4lt-mordant> or did they fix that lately?
[01:16:46] <Triskelios> it's in /usr/openwin/bin, which should already be in your PATH
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[02:24:50] <timeless> nice
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[02:27:58] <delewis> is /usr/sfw/bin/openssl not largefile-aware?
[02:28:11] <delewis> [root@galileo ~]# /usr/sfw/bin/openssl dgst -md5 /var/tmp/foo.iso
[02:28:12] <delewis> /var/tmp/foo.iso: Value too large for defined data type
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[03:34:57] <benr>
[03:35:29] <benr> \quit
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[03:42:31] <mschenck> dclarke, you around?
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[03:47:15] * Shiv_1 ponders - dclarke hasn't been seen on IRC for long.
[03:47:42] * Shiv_1 has been trying to hunt him down since a couple of days
[03:48:25] <l1s> what do you want from him?
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[03:52:42] <g4lt-mordant> !seen dclarke
[03:52:56] * g4lt-mordant grumbles about drone
[03:53:06] <l1s> you dont have a bot here?
[03:53:29] <g4lt-mordant> we do, the seen functionality is rather not present ATM
[03:53:49] <l1s> ah
[03:54:11] <l1s> where does freeamp reside?!?
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[04:09:13] <tek-ops> I'm having an issue linking a prcompiled library
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[04:11:44] <tek-ops> can someone confirm or deny my suspicion that this might occur if they were compiled with the sun studio c compiler, I could not link them in when compiling another application with the gnu c compiler?
[04:14:09] <kjetilho> C++ libraries are problematic
[04:14:30] <kjetilho> Sun Studio libraries should be linkable by both gcc and cc
[04:14:39] <kjetilho> the converse may not be true
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[04:16:24] <tek-ops> hmmm
[04:18:27] <tek-ops> I'm attempting to build MythTV on OpenSolaris
[04:19:17] <tek-ops> I need to link in liblame, which I got the package from blastwave, and I'm getting this: http://www.pastebin.ca/736023
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[04:30:38] <Shiv_1> kjetilho: They are not linkable
[04:31:34] <Shiv_1> kjetilho: There are no standards with respect to name mangling and each compiler tend to have their own name mangling scheme
[04:32:04] <kjetilho> right, I may have been unclear -- C++ is problematic always
[04:32:31] <kjetilho> but if you compile a C library with Studio, it should be usable by GCC.
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[04:35:48] <kjetilho> tek-ops: you're really out to lunch with your error.  where did you get your GCC installation anyway?
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[04:45:54] <tuck12> anybody here good with FC SAN connection troubleshooting ?
[04:46:16] <tuck12> I can't seem to figure out why the T3 is not showing up under format , though it exists in cfgadm -al
[04:46:28] <tuck12> connected, unconfigured
[04:47:46] <tomww> tuck12: why "unconfigured" ?
[04:48:09] <tuck12> tomww: i don't know, per recommendation from this channel, i did  -c configure c3
[04:48:20] <tuck12> and it still didn't fix the issue
[04:48:28] <tomww> ah, this should configure the controller in the host.
[04:48:39] <tomww> is it new the T3 or already with dta?
[04:48:41] <tomww> dta?
[04:48:50] <tomww> data? (sorry, bad keyboard)
[04:48:58] <tuck12> it was used before ......working and all
[04:49:03] <tuck12> but i don't care about data on it
[04:49:15] <tomww> you still have LUNs configured on the T3 ?
[04:49:40] <tuck12> umm....I think so...since I haven't erased the LUN configured on T3
[04:49:45] <tuck12> it's one big Raid 5 lun
[04:50:00] <tomww> fine :)  qht happens if you try a "devfsadm"
[04:50:14] <tuck12> i did   devfsadm -Cv
[04:50:21] <tuck12> a few dozen times
[04:50:25] <tuck12> no go
[04:50:46] <tomww> thi okay, so i'm wondering about the "unconfigured"
[04:51:14] <Downix> Hmm
[04:51:14] <tuck12> i don't know how to resolve that
[04:51:40] <tomww> hmmm. luxadm could tell you if the connection is okay and the T3 can be seen by the host.
[04:51:59] <tomww> you could try also on the OBP the probe-fcal-all
[04:52:08] <Downix> for a second I was going "T3?  But they just released the T2!!!"  8)
[04:52:20] <tomww> the T3 culd have LUN masking and that stuff enabled
[04:52:47] <tuck12> tomww: I can telnet to the SAN
[04:53:01] <tuck12> is there a way to see if it has LUN masking ?
[04:53:41] <tomww> good question...
[04:54:34] <Downix> I need to learn how to set up a T1 sometime
[04:56:09] <tek-ops> kjetilho: this gcc is /usr/sfw/bin/gcc that is standard with SEDR
[04:56:16] <tek-ops> or rather SXDR
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[05:02:18] <tek-ops> which gcc build do you all use?
[05:04:06] <Downix> tek: 4.1.2
[05:04:39] <tek-ops> do you just build from gnu's site, or is there a solaris package I should grab?
[05:05:01] <Downix> I just build
[05:05:15] <Downix> figure no fresher than straight from the cow
[05:05:59] <tek-ops> did you prefix to /opt/gnu or let it over write /usr/sfw/bin?
[05:06:22] <tek-ops> or rather, would it fall into path where needed?
[05:07:06] <Downix> I use /opt/gcc for mine
[05:07:23] <tek-ops> ok cool, thanks
[05:07:31] <Downix> everybody's different tho
[05:10:00] <tek-ops> 4.2.2 is out, by the way
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[05:10:18] <Downix> I'm also lazy
[05:10:18] <tek-ops> I build everything to /opt, just curious what others do
[05:10:20] <Downix> 8)
[05:10:23] <tek-ops> :)
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[05:22:48] <Downix> I still feel like the oddity here for still running a SPARC
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[05:32:57] <tek-ops> if I could afford it...
[05:33:08] <tek-ops> what system are you running on?
[05:34:16] <Downix> I run Solaris 9 on a SPARCStation 10
[05:34:25] <Downix> old but stable
[05:34:41] <Downix> more than I can say for the Xeons at work
[05:35:23] <Downix> but, for $35, can't complain
[05:36:46] <tek-ops> woah
[05:36:53] <Downix> it's still a bit of a culture shock after running Linux since '94
[05:36:54] <tek-ops> web and e-mail box?
[05:37:18] <Downix> Nah, I use it for a file server for my LAN
[05:37:23] <tek-ops> FC?
[05:37:31] <Downix> FC?
[05:37:37] <tek-ops> fiber channel
[05:37:43] <Downix> nope, SCSI
[05:37:48] <tek-ops> fair enough
[05:37:59] <tek-ops> I have a core 2 duo, home built
[05:38:05] <Downix> It runs and hasn't crashed on me yet.
[05:38:10] <tek-ops> dropping in the Marvell 8 port SATA HBA
[05:38:15] <Downix> I had one of those, the mobo blew up
[05:38:34] <tek-ops> I have an ASUS board, I'm using the PCI-X card
[05:38:51] <tek-ops> though I was considering going with the LSI internal SAS card
[05:38:51] <Downix> I had a Dell, the power-regulator blew on it
[05:39:00] <tek-ops> Dell is gross
[05:39:02] <tek-ops> hah, sorry
[05:39:25] <Downix> don't be, was a freebie, but ugh never running one agai
[05:39:26] <Downix> n
[05:40:24] <Downix> I have a knack for showing up at "just the right time" to get steals
[05:40:38] <tek-ops> well I was using a mythtv box for a file  server
[05:40:44] <tek-ops> that's good fortune by the way
[05:41:01] <tek-ops> my thought is, it doesn't make sense to use anything other than solaris for a file server
[05:41:13] <Downix> Solaris is but one key of the puzzle tho
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[05:41:41] <tek-ops> well, I agree with that statement, but we may have different meanings
[05:41:58] <tek-ops> I think each operating system has it's benefits, I just prefer solaris for file servers
[05:42:21] <Downix> while Marvell makes an excellent chipset (used their northbridge in a mobo project in my former employer) it's still tied to a basic design flaw in any PC, they can't handle the IO bandwidth as well as my original 68030 server, or this new SPARC.
[05:43:29] <jamesd> Downix, what is its limit.. my 10 year old ultra 2 does 2GB/s over its memory bus.
[05:43:54] <Downix> jamesd: latency for task-switching.
[05:44:16] <Downix> jamesd:  the faster the Opterons and Xeons and Core Duos get the worse it gets.
[05:45:13] <tek-ops> I'd certainly prefer a T2 :D
[05:45:19] <Downix> jamesd: and file-serving is pure task-switching.
[05:45:35] <Downix> tek-ops: Oh heck yeah.  8)
[05:49:13] <Downix> jamesd: If you're single-task bound (such as heavy math functions), sure, I'd go x86 all the way.  But for low-math high-IO, they just don't do it for me.  Then again, I was spoiled on the Amiga way back when....
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[05:49:42] <tek-ops> and a couple shelves full of 15.2k 147GB fiber channel drivers :D
[05:49:48] <tek-ops> s/drivers/drives
[05:50:19] <Downix> tek-ops: Only a few shelves?  I have a whole closet I could fill up.... 8)
[05:51:48] <tek-ops> I'd be first with  10TB :D
[05:51:49] <jamesd> Downix, my  u2 has over 1000 sets of hardware registers that make task switching extremely fast...  i think its 8192 tasks but i'm not sure.
[05:52:21] <tek-ops> s/first/fine
[05:52:24] <tek-ops> damn south park
[05:53:17] <Downix> jamesd:  not familiar with the U2, honestly.
[05:53:34] <Downix> jamesd:  My limit of x86 is on the lower end, sad to say
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[05:54:42] <Downix> jamesd: That's from Carver, isn't it?
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[05:58:21] <jamesd> u2 == sun ultra 2 ... ultrasparcII cpu  2MB l2 cache  250-400mhz   64 bit...   numerous registers, and    2GB/s memory bus
[05:58:34] <Downix> Ah, ok
[05:58:39] <jamesd> the u2 has 2x cpus and 2GB of ram
[05:58:51] <Downix> sorry there's the Carver U2 rackmount that uses Xeon CPU's as well
[05:59:13] <jamesd> np
[05:59:59] <Downix> the SPARC architecture allows for co-processors (and the co-processors registers) to be inserted without breaking software compatibility, so I understand (I'm a bit rusty here)
[06:00:37] <jamesd> not sure.. the fp units are on the cpus..
[06:00:51] <Downix> FP is just 1 kind of co-processor tho
[06:01:00] <jamesd> you can hot plug cpus and io busses, if properly designed
[06:01:10] <Downix> Right
[06:01:12] <Downix> which is cool
[06:01:24] <Downix> the SPARC I have here has two CPU's, but it can take 4
[06:02:20] <baijiutong> hey, uh
[06:02:33] <jamesd> you can go up to 256 cpus   in sparc.. though sun only sells upto  144 currently
[06:02:37] <baijiutong> i've got a zpool that seems to be behaving badly, as far as i can tell.
[06:02:42] <Downix> not in this one, it's too old
[06:02:48] <jamesd> BadKarma, zpool  status
[06:02:49] <Downix> it's only a 32-bit SPARC
[06:03:01] <baijiutong> i just installed a new drive, identical to the four currently functioning drives in a 5-way raidz1
[06:03:03] <jamesd> Downix, you have a ss10 or ss20?
[06:03:11] <baijiutong> but i can't use it to replace the new one.
[06:03:18] <Downix> ss10
[06:03:19] <baijiutong> http://pastie.caboo.se/107004 if anyone cares to check my work
[06:03:33] <Downix> I need to get more RAM for it, but that looks to be more expensive than it's worth
[06:03:55] <jamesd> Downix, yeah i have 2 of those...  not sure they work... not interesting enough to power them on.. only  40 and 50mhz cpus in mine
[06:04:04] <Downix> 150's in mine
[06:04:06] <baijiutong> is there a place where you can figure out what zfs thinks the smallest size needed for replacement is?
[06:04:13] <baijiutong> or zpool or w/e
[06:04:15] <tek-ops> I'm having issues building gnu 4.2
[06:04:20] <tek-ops> err
[06:04:21] <tek-ops> gcc
[06:04:29] <tek-ops> hah, and that's 4.2.2
[06:04:56] <Downix> jamesd: I've wondered if there's a place to get the MBus spec to roll my own CPU's tho.  After all, the source code to both the 32-bit Leon and 64-bit T1 is out there.
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[06:05:27] <Downix> tek-ops: What issues?
[06:05:34] <jamesd> Downix, check  sparc.org  they might have it... else get all the engineering guides from sunsolve.com
[06:05:39] <tek-ops> make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `stage1-bubble'
[06:06:02] <Downix> jamesd: or to get the physical connector for that matter.  (would be fun to try)
[06:06:07] <tek-ops> brb
[06:06:16] <tek-ops> s/brb/be right back
[06:06:53] <jamesd> baijiutong, looks like it needs  465.76GB  ...
[06:07:05] <jamesd> i guess these are luns off an emc or something.
[06:07:18] <Downix> jamesd:  that is what killed my ambition to make a replacement Amiga 4000 motherboard, for instance.  You couldn't get the CPU slot connector anymore
[06:07:19] <baijiutong> which is exactly what i'm trying to replace the faulted device with
[06:07:26] <baijiutong> these are identical drives, all of them
[06:08:32] <baijiutong> the drive that i'm replacing (the faulted one) was actually a 300gb drive
[06:08:47] <jamesd> then why are you addressing the  replacement drive with a tX entry in it.. and the others not..
[06:09:16] <baijiutong> it was initially created in vmware, when the machine it's running on was running linux
[06:09:31] <baijiutong> i installed sxce a while ago and imported it
[06:10:05] <baijiutong> vmware called them scsi devices when given the bare drives
[06:11:34] <Downix> ok, time for bed
[06:12:06] <jamesd> not sure what is going on...  looks like  c3d0 is 465.xx like the rest...
[06:12:13] <baijiutong> yup
[06:12:15] <baijiutong> exactly :/
[06:12:17] <jamesd> you may want to post to  zfs-discuss
[06:12:21] <baijiutong> okay, thanks
[06:12:34] <jamesd> i know the replace code works, i have used it my self...
[06:13:04] <baijiutong> yeah
[06:13:18] <baijiutong> i mean, it looks like something got bunged up somewhere in the pool
[06:13:33] <baijiutong> like it thinks the "largest device" is larger than anything that's in there
[06:13:54] <baijiutong> i'll admit to not knowing what i was doing very well when the pool was created
[06:14:22] <baijiutong> and part of the reason i reinstalled is that vmware is not always entirely stable in its bare-device references
[06:14:27] <jamesd> do you have a way to back up all your data and recreate the pool, it might not be a bad idea.
[06:14:46] <baijiutong> that particular degraded drive got pointed at my root linux drive at one point
[06:14:50] <baijiutong> woops, reinstall!
[06:15:24] <baijiutong> no, i don't at the moment.
[06:15:48] <baijiutong> but it certainly seems like it might be a good idea to just go buy a 750 :)
[06:16:13] <jamesd> well if you post on  zfs-discuss it should get some attention, its probably a bug... just not sure if there is a way to recover from it without waiting for a bug fix or a new version to come along
[06:16:20] <baijiutong> exactly.
[06:16:42] <baijiutong> and in the meanwhile, running degraded scares me :)
[06:16:42] <jamesd> be sure and post output from  iostat -En  as well.
[06:16:58] <jamesd> as it should... one more disk failure and your data is toaste
[06:17:07] <baijiutong> nothing untowards there at all
[06:17:09] <baijiutong> yup
[06:17:21] <baijiutong> i mean, they're all brand new drives.
[06:17:22] <baijiutong> but, yeah.
[06:17:44] <baijiutong> i set this up because i'm done with data loss :)
[06:18:02] <baijiutong> anyhow, thanks for the pointers
[06:22:37] <myrkraverk> does zfs support "holes" aka ext3 and ntfs?
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[06:22:52] <myrkraverk> (context: qemu disk image format)
[06:23:04] <jamesd> yes, it handles   sparse files
[06:23:11] <myrkraverk> ok ;)
[06:23:25] <jamesd> and doesn't allocate space for them and it does compression on the blocklevel
[06:24:08] <myrkraverk> ok, then I think I'll stick with raw images for qemu ;)
[06:24:36] <jamesd> you can disable  compression in fact its disabled by default
[06:26:10] <myrkraverk> ok ;)
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[06:49:58] <myrkraverk> is there a way to get the actual (block) size of a sparse file?
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[07:17:08] <e^ipi_conference> jbk: did they include boot code and a virtual machine with that?
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[07:40:05] <rootard> Does anyone here use a Solaris/OpenSolaris box as an IPv6 router?
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[08:25:50] <Phonecardfire> hey, all you party people ...
[08:26:08] <Phonecardfire> I've got to ask: is there any verbose when attempting to zpool import?
[08:26:45] <Phonecardfire> I've attempted every variant I could think of to force the system to pick up my degraded/faulted/just-plain-hiding zpool
[08:26:54] <Phonecardfire> *verbose mode
[08:27:29] <Phonecardfire> the result, each time, is the command just runs indefinately, never letting me input on the terminal after I sent the import command.
[08:35:08] <blueandwhiteg3> i've been trying to help Phonecardfire but i'm also stuck.... i've looked at the sun docs, but is there any kind of more verbose mode I missed? a detailed log? some way to diagnose or troubleshoot this system?
[08:36:12] <blueandwhiteg3> It was a three drive raidz. Two drives are online. There have been a strange variety of hardware contortions, but the two drives should be working. They show up in format. They are there. But status doesn't know about them, and zpool import -D, zpool import, zpool import -f, zpool status, and zpool status -x all fail to yield anything useful
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[09:22:56] <flyingparchment> T2 was released?
[09:31:29] <ofu> tuesday
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[09:33:52] <palowoda> Competitively priced too I must say.
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[09:43:37] <ofu> can i create a degraded zpool?
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[09:44:09] <Phonecardfire> heh, can I import an unimportable, degraded zpool?
[09:46:08] <palowoda> I guess it validates "garbage in, garbage out".
[09:51:07] <baijiutong> ofu: nope :)
[09:51:54] <baijiutong> you could uh, maybe fake it by making a sparse file somewhere of the same size as the other devices in your pool..
[09:51:59] <baijiutong> and then using that as a device..
[09:52:17] <baijiutong> then offlining it
[09:52:30] <baijiutong> or deleting it, or whatever..
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[10:01:35] <Teltariat> Triskelios: PING!
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[10:23:02] <dynamicproxy> teltariat: he must be asleep.. he's at the summit
[10:23:11] <Teltariat> Ah, thanks dynamic
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[10:34:16] <blueandwhiteg3> does anybody around here know about troubleshooting a zpool that won't import?
[10:35:22] <e^ipi_conference> dynamicproxy: in all fairness, I'm at the summit and i'm not asleep
[10:36:09] <dynamicproxy> e^ipi_conference: :)
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[10:39:55] <Teltariat> Hey e^ipi
[10:39:59] <e^ipi_conference> ahoy
[10:40:04] <Teltariat> How goes all?
[10:40:12] <e^ipi_conference> quite well actually
[10:40:18] <Teltariat> Thats good to hear
[10:40:39] <blueandwhiteg3> e^ipi_conference: do you know anything about how to get information when zpool import and all the usual zpool status and import commands do not detect a zpool?
[10:40:42] <Teltariat> I'm curious; whats beings done at the summit?
[10:41:05] <e^ipi_conference> blueandwhiteg3: fmdump
[10:41:28] <e^ipi_conference> Teltariat: talking about packaging, API/ABI stability, desktopy stuff
[10:41:35] <Teltariat> Sounds good
[10:41:52] <e^ipi_conference> garrett did a talk on drivers ( adding suspend/resume support to drivers )
[10:41:57] <Teltariat> btw, has anyone here used Triskelios' zfs_ttinstall script?
[10:42:08] <e^ipi_conference> I hung out with the sun labs guys talking about PPC port
[10:42:16] <Teltariat> a PPC port?
[10:42:19] <Teltariat> Is that even worth it?
[10:42:21] <e^ipi_conference> we got drunk on sun's dollar
[10:42:32] <e^ipi_conference> Teltariat: IBM will still sell you PPC hardware, so yes
[10:42:49] <Teltariat> oh, my fault, sorry, I was thinking in the vein of Macs
[10:42:50] <e^ipi_conference> and the port was started quite some time ago
[10:43:05] <Teltariat> I'd be more interested to know whats planned for packaging
[10:43:21] <Fish-> hello$
[10:43:25] <e^ipi_conference> stephen posted his slides that give a decent overview
[10:43:28] <e^ipi_conference> 1 sec
[10:43:43] <blueandwhiteg3> e^ipi_conference: thanks, i will peruse that. this has been an insane sequence of hardware issues here.
[10:44:06] <blueandwhiteg3> now it's like the zpool does not exist... but we still have 2 of the 3 drives running
[10:44:21] <e^ipi_conference> I don't really give a damn about high level stuff like packaging so I've been spending most of my time hanging out with the people doing lower-level stuff
[10:44:24] <blueandwhiteg3> it doesn't seem like there is any risk of data loss if those drives are working
[10:44:37] <blueandwhiteg3> however, it is quite scary to the guy who's data is on there!
[10:45:13] <e^ipi_conference> though it seems stephen's crew has found a way to reconcile modernizing packaging without fucking it up like linux did
[10:45:32] <e^ipi_conference> ahh, here we go
[10:45:33] <e^ipi_conference> http://mediacast.sun.com/share/sch/t-pkg-summit-oct-2007.pdf
[10:45:36] <e^ipi_conference> the slides
[10:46:45] <Teltariat> Thanks, e^ipi
[10:47:31] <e^ipi_conference> np
[10:53:56] <Teltariat> IPS looks to be smarter.  They're taking things in a simpler direction while maximizing flexibility
[10:54:05] <Teltariat> Oh dear, I'm beginning to sound like Marketing
[10:54:55] <bda> haha
[10:59:18] <e^ipi_conference> I'm generally pretty resistant to change w.r.t. technology, but I must concede that from the sounds of it IPS might turn out pretty good
[10:59:59] <e^ipi_conference> whether it translates in to code is a different story, but I think stephen's addressed most of the major reservations I've had with a network repo based packaging system
[11:02:45] <Teltariat> I'm still pretty new to the whole thing, but things look good to me as well
[11:03:04] * Teltariat is still the crappy n00bhead still wrestling with basic Solaris administration concepts
[11:03:52] <bda> Patching Sol10 hurts. :)
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[11:04:21] <e^ipi_conference> anyways, i've gotta get up in 5 hours
[11:04:41] <e^ipi_conference> ciao
[11:04:46] <bda> ta, yo.
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[11:08:44] <Teltariat> Hey folks, where would I find the SUNWCreq meta-cluster?
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[11:21:43] <palowoda> Is SUNWCreq part of opensolaris?
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[11:23:33] <Teltariat> I was told that this is the "meta-cluster" file that contains the package listing for  a Reduced Core install.
[11:23:42] <Teltariat> I'm trying to install Solaris to a directory using pure packages
[11:24:35] <palowoda> Just curious does it include webstart?
[11:25:09] <Teltariat> No.  Neither Reduced Core nor Core include Webstart.
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[11:29:16] <g4lt-mordant> what part of "never do a core install" is escaping you?
[11:30:00] <clee> are there any tools available yet for creating slimmed-down OS installers?
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[11:30:09] <Teltariat> g4lt-mordant: Why not?  I want it slimmed down
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[11:30:54] <palowoda> I thought the slim install project was part of the Indiana project.
[11:30:59] <g4lt-mordant> well then have at it and don't come crying to me when it blows up in your face.  the only suggested install cluster is full
[11:31:22] <g4lt-mordant> palowoda, turns out the new dwarf caiman installer only doees full
[11:31:45] <Teltariat> Thats why I dislike the caiman installer
[11:31:52] <palowoda> You mean right now?
[11:32:05] <Teltariat> g4lt: I so go in and pkg_add -d . EVERYTHING?  owch
[11:32:08] * Teltariat winces
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[11:32:30] <flyingparchment> Teltariat: why don't you use live upgrade?
[11:32:40] <palowoda> Say what was that slim install project all about anyways?
[11:32:43] <Teltariat> flyingparchment: liveupgrade hates ZFS
[11:32:43] <g4lt-mordant> suit yourself, but I for one won't tell you how to recover from a botched instlal if it isn't full
[11:32:59] <Teltariat> g4lt: How does having GNOME on my fileserver help me? :-/
[11:33:13] <Teltariat> This is meant to be a slimmed down Zones and fileserver machine
[11:33:28] <Teltariat> I don't want X, GNOME, DT, HAL, Netscape and all that...
[11:33:31] <g4lt-mordant> again, suit yourself, but if you screw it up, you're on your own
[11:33:58] <Teltariat> g4lt: I find it weird that all installation profiles aren't supported.
[11:34:13] <g4lt-mordant> they might be, by someone else
[11:34:14] <flyingparchment> Teltariat: they are supported, just not on irc :)
[11:34:26] * Teltariat sighs.
[11:34:33] <Teltariat> Between a rock and a hard place here
[11:34:47] <Teltariat> All I'm trying to do is get snv_74 on its own ZFS dataset
[11:35:01] <Teltariat> I tried Triskelios's zfs_ttinstall script, and bad things happened
[11:35:24] * g4lt-mordant notes that every single time that full install has been mentioned, i mentioned "I won't help you", not "sun wont help you"
[11:35:30] <Teltariat> I tried liveupgrade, and liveupgrade took one look at my all-ZFS, no-UFS-slices-at-all disk and let out a blood-curdling scream
[11:35:31] <flyingparchment> zfs root is probably best avoided except for testing until it has proper install/upgrade support
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[11:35:41] <flyingparchment> (unless you use bfu, that works fine with zfs root)
[11:35:52] <Teltariat> Looks like thats my only option
[11:36:01] <g4lt-mordant> zf`s root is X86 only and X86 can kiss my ass
[11:36:06] <Teltariat> Can I BFU directly from 69 to 74?
[11:36:17] <flyingparchment> Teltariat: yes, but check flag days first
[11:36:22] <Teltariat> g4lt: x86 is all I have.  Sorry I'm not awesome like you. I aspire to be, though.
[11:36:35] <flyingparchment> Teltariat: especially for zfs root, there were some changes after it integrated iirc (not sure what build though)
[11:37:08] <palowoda> g4lt-mordant: Your learning that sparc has a long way software wise to catch up.  But doen't worry you have time.
[11:37:20] <Teltariat> There is this nasty bug with b72 on upwards where after booting the installation media, the Solaris loses the DVD drive, and the installers crap out complaining "Can't find installation media"
[11:37:32] <Teltariat> So I am forced to use "alternative methods".
[11:37:46] <g4lt-mordant> palowoda, yes, but hardware-wise, X86 is just about caught up to the ultrasparc1
[11:38:24] <g4lt-mordant> pity that solaris won't support that beast anymore
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[11:38:28] <palowoda> g4lt-mordant: That is way everybody is buying T2 now. :)
[11:38:33] <WickedWicky> Teltariat: and that problem isnt just CD-ROM drives
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[11:38:43] <Teltariat> Wicky: really? What else?
[11:38:54] <WickedWicky> it doesnt find my SATA disk in my laptop unless I put the SATA drive in Legacy IDE mode
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[11:39:41] <Teltariat> sheesh.
[11:39:49] <g4lt-mordant> WickedWicky, see, you need ot get your laptops from gdamore ;P
[11:40:14] <WickedWicky> this is my work laptop
[11:40:41] <WickedWicky> Fijitsu Lifebook E8110
[11:40:58] <palowoda> WickedWicky: You should have bought a UltraSparc laptop.
[11:41:10] <WickedWicky> which are non existant anymore I heard
[11:41:19] <WickedWicky> and I didnt buy it, I got it
[11:41:24] <palowoda> Oh you just doen't have enough $$$
[11:41:28] <WickedWicky> everybody at work gets a phone and a laptop
[11:41:30] <Teltariat> x86 laptops are cheaper
[11:41:36] <Teltariat> Not everyone here is just rolling in dough
[11:42:11] <WickedWicky> they dont make sparc laptops anymore, do they?
[11:42:16] <palowoda> Ultrasparc laptop marketing is "Tuff you can't afford it doen't buy it".
[11:42:19] <Teltariat> they do
[11:42:55] <clee> http://www.tadpole.com/products/notebooks/bullfrog.asp
[11:43:11] <Teltariat> "Mobile servers"
[11:43:13] <Teltariat> holy shit.
[11:43:26] <hali> it's still fuck slow
[11:43:31] <Teltariat> really?
[11:44:09] <WickedWicky> how much is 20lbs in KGs?
[11:44:24] <hali> just 9
[11:44:24] <trygvis> 10kg
[11:44:25] <Teltariat> The bullfrog dual processor laptops are hilarious
[11:44:27] <g4lt-mordant> 10
[11:44:29] <hali> 20lbs to kg in google
[11:44:30] <Teltariat> those things are _THICH_
[11:44:36] <WickedWicky> 10kgs!
[11:44:37] <Teltariat> *THICK
[11:44:38] <palowoda> The Ultrasparc laptop is not concerned with opinions of performance,  or wieght for that matter.
[11:44:39] <Teltariat> rather
[11:44:39] <WickedWicky> for a laptop!
[11:44:39] <g4lt-mordant> 1kg == 2.2#
[11:44:49] <WickedWicky> and then ppl complained about my Acer 1701SM
[11:44:55] <palowoda> Nor power consumption.
[11:45:09] <Teltariat> Well Solaris does run fully supported on recent Thinkpads, right?
[11:45:16] <flyingparchment> if you want a portable sparc laptop, buy a V890 and a sunray laptop ;)
[11:45:21] <g4lt-mordant> palowoda, that's just because there isn't a coolthreads lappy yet ;P
[11:45:36] * Teltariat waits for the POWER6 laptop
[11:45:48] <palowoda> Lets see what a coolthreads cpu cost in a laptop.
[11:45:48] <Teltariat> :p
[11:46:02] * g4lt-mordant bets there will be a coolthreads lasppy before a power6
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[11:46:07] <flyingparchment> coolthreads laptop would be lame, i want a small number of fast cores in a desktop
[11:46:08] <palowoda> A dime a dozen a new market.
[11:46:17] * Teltariat doesn't even think there could really be a POWER6 laptop
[11:46:32] <palowoda> Hope, hope hope.
[11:46:39] <Teltariat> I mean, the battery would be bookbag sized, strapped to your back
[11:46:48] <WickedWicky> still
[11:46:51] <WickedWicky> you'd have a sparc laptop
[11:46:56] <WickedWicky> geeky girls would dig me
[11:47:04] * clee is imagining a proton pack, Ghostbusters-style
[11:47:37] <g4lt-mordant> actually, I'm still holding out for the sparc-based smartphone ;P
[11:47:42] <WickedWicky> HAHA
[11:48:34] <Teltariat> And even with a battery that big, your POWER6 would still want all of it; you wouldn't have enough to share with even someone who wanted to charge their cellphone :P
[11:49:03] <Teltariat> 1 week recharge time
[11:49:16] <jteo> fusion reactor?
[11:49:19] <palowoda> 96 week payment time.
[11:50:17] <noyb> that sparc based phone would look all ultra-sleek and lug-able, like: http://www.markdroberts.com/images/cell-phone-old-big-4.jpg
[11:50:22] <g4lt-mordant> palowoda, s/96/2048/
[11:50:35] <Teltariat> "WHAT THE HELL IS THAT NOISE?!"     "ITS JUST FRED AND HIS POWER6 LAPTOP."      "LAPTOP?!?!"      "YEA, LAPTOP."
[11:50:52] <Teltariat> lol @ noyb
[11:50:53] <palowoda> Yeah so much for boring hardware that never comes to reality in the market. :)
[11:51:20] <g4lt-mordant> noyb, not necessarily, presumably it'd just be a coolthreads cpu and a whacking big flash chip
[11:51:44] <noyb> oh, ok...  so only 1/2 that size.  :-)
[11:51:49] <palowoda> We all have dreams.
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[11:53:00] <Teltariat> And then there are those of us with delusions. :)
[11:53:10] <g4lt-mordant> of course a firewire/usb controller would also be a goodness
[11:53:42] <Teltariat> So can someone here at least *point* me to where meta-clusters are usually kept on Solaris installation media? I know I'm going to shoot myself in the foot, but hey, its my foot, right?
[11:53:45] <jteo> Teltariat: to-MAY-toe, to-MAH-toe
[11:53:53] <Teltariat> :D jteo
[11:54:08] <palowoda> delusions of paying for something and think your contributing to a hardware market that will never exist.
[11:54:41] <palowoda> Err only for the rich.
[11:55:27] <g4lt-mordant> yeah, but then Sun wants to work with samsung, a company known for smartphones that fail to run J2ME on the jphone
[11:55:48] <palowoda> jphone is a dime a dozen here in the US.
[11:56:28] <g4lt-mordant> palowoda, uhm jphones don't exist outside of prototypes yet
[11:56:45] <palowoda> Now you got the picture.
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[11:57:00] * g4lt-mordant points out ENGLISH IS *NOT* LATIN
[11:57:29] <jteo> ergo?
[11:57:38] <cmihai> Ita vero!
[11:57:41] <cmihai> I mean, yes it is :P
[11:58:00] <g4lt-mordant> ergo i and j are not freely substitutable
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[11:58:34] <jteo> we are in the realm of marketing speak. ANYTHING goes.
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[11:59:26] <palowoda> Including the stock value.
[11:59:37] <g4lt-mordant> did someone mention dclarke?  he and gman are the only ones that actually believe that
[12:00:08] <jteo> i really prefered SUNW vs JAVA.
[12:00:19] <cmihai> Duh
[12:00:46] <cmihai> Changing the stock ticker to anything is a bad business decision... let alone chaning it to something stupid like JABA
[12:00:54] * g4lt-mordant really thhinks if the value goes up, I couldn't caree if it's called INDIANA
[12:01:41] <jteo> yes...like VMW
[12:01:46] <Teltariat> I personally think he should have just changed it from SUNW to MOOND
[12:02:16] * Teltariat looks around as everyone silently stares at him....
[12:02:19] <Teltariat> ...what?
[12:02:50] <palowoda> Just buy an ultrasparc laptop or java phone and get over it.
[12:03:13] <Teltariat> So what do you guys think about the OpenMoko?
[12:03:17] <g4lt-mordant> can i buy an ultrasparc phone?
[12:03:46] <palowoda> Sure how much money do you have?
[12:03:52] <Teltariat> Isn't using an Ultrasparc for a phone a bit on the ......excessive... side of things....?
[12:03:59] <jteo> bs
[12:04:07] <jteo> we could watch multiple YOUTUBE vids
[12:04:11] <g4lt-mordant> I try not to think of it at all, since it had really good promise which they blew by making it fucktarded
[12:04:22] <Teltariat> "Hay guyz, lookit my Core Duo fone!"
[12:04:55] <palowoda> Scary Intel is working on 1watt x86 based cpu's.
[12:05:02] <Teltariat> "Yeh, it needz 115v standard just to make a phone call, but its leet, no?!"
[12:05:03] <g4lt-mordant> now, core duo iwsn't supposed to be minimal energy
[12:05:37] <Gekz[PDA]> palowoda: holy crap, it can coordinate the burning of toast.
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[12:05:57] <g4lt-mordant> however, N1 is supposed to be really nice on the wattage
[12:06:04] <Teltariat> Oh no, now for toast coordination, you need NetBSD, not Solaris.
[12:06:12] <palowoda> Need more fab lines.
[12:06:13] <Teltariat> They _pioneered_ the art of UNIX toasters
[12:06:47] <Teltariat> Well indeed Core Duos would make good toaster heating elements, though
[12:07:17] <Teltariat> "Compile your Linux kernel AND prepare breakfast at the same time!"
[12:07:36] <libkeiser> and finally some good would come out of linux
[12:07:41] <palowoda> You can cook dinner on an ultraspac laptop.
[12:07:42] <clee> Teltariat: the openmoko guys are kind of retarded.
[12:07:51] <clee> I mean, I hope it works out, but they seem to lack basic logic skills.
[12:07:52] <Teltariat> clee: Why say you this?
[12:07:59] <clee> I wrote an iPhone app, right.
[12:08:14] <Teltariat> lol, libkeiser
[12:08:20] <Teltariat> clee: right.
[12:08:22] <clee> the whole point of my app is to take pictures from your iPhone's camera roll, and push them to Flickr.
[12:08:32] <clee> the OpenMoko guys are like "OH AWESOME!"
[12:08:41] <clee> then they're like "Can you port it to OpenMoko?"
[12:08:46] <Teltariat> ...
[12:08:55] <clee> and "porting" involves rewriting it in a different language, mind you.b
[12:09:00] <clee> but I'm okay with that idea.
[12:09:03] <clee> if it gets me free hardware, sure, why not?
[12:09:10] <Teltariat> Are you sure it wasn't just Openmoko fans, not the actual project heads?
[12:09:21] <clee> so I tell them. "Get me a free phone, with a camera, and I'll port it"
[12:09:39] <clee> and their response was "Oh. Why do you need a camera?"
[12:09:47] <Teltariat> <facedesk>
[12:09:50] <clee> exactly.
[12:09:51] <palowoda> Isn't Iphone where you buy a piece of hardware and they brick it the next day.
[12:10:01] <Teltariat> aahaha
[12:10:04] <clee> palowoda: no, it's where you buy the hardware and then you can brick it yourself the next day.
[12:10:10] <Gekz[PDA]> lol
[12:10:30] <palowoda> Oh wait it cost what 500.00 for that phone.
[12:10:31] <Teltariat> Some people got bricked, and they never even tried to mod or unlock their phone
[12:10:31] <g4lt-mordant> no, that's the iPOD, the iphone takes wa month
[12:10:38] <clee> nobody forces you to install the newest software updates, and nobody forces you to do all sorts of unapproved things like carrier-unlocking. :)
[12:10:57] <clee> Teltariat: some people did, yeah.
[12:11:17] <palowoda> What a bunch of pudheads not kissing Jobs ass.
[12:11:29] * clee shrugs.
[12:11:35] <clee> the iPhone is the single best phone I've ever had.
[12:11:36] <Teltariat> Some one needs to make a new Apple ad.  One where the Apple guy goes around randomly smacking people with a cinder block, all the while shouting "BRICKED!"
[12:12:05] <clee> the fact that I can write my own apps for it, without having to go through some bullshit signing process, makes it even more awesome.
[12:12:12] <Teltariat> I humbly submit that it would be pure comedy, and work wonders for the iPhone marketing campaign
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[12:12:44] <clee> however, it's a compromise, like most things. I exchanged the ability to install new firmware updates for the freedom to do whatever the fuck I want with my phone.
[12:12:48] <clee> I'm happy with my choice. :)
[12:13:03] <palowoda> I rate Iphone's marketing just about ten times worse than Ultrasparc laptops.  Now that is bad.
[12:13:30] <dynamicproxy> LOL... I can just imagine some of my colleagues getting dazend when they're whacked with a cinder block :)
[12:14:28] <clee> seriously though. how many phones can you ssh into?
[12:14:32] <clee> :)
[12:14:47] <Teltariat> I'm waiting for better stuff from the Openmoko project.
[12:15:01] <palowoda> Really your fucked if you have to depend on your Iphone for reasonable information access.
[12:15:13] <clee> palowoda: ?
[12:15:16] <clee> what do you mean?
[12:16:27] <palowoda> It's a fad clee.  Get over it.
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[12:16:42] <Teltariat> <Flame ON>
[12:16:44] <clee> palowoda: it's the first phone that I've ever owned that I haven't wanted to throw through a wall.
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[12:16:59] <clee> that's noteworthy for me.
[12:17:08] <clee> nothing 'fad' about it.
[12:17:47] <palowoda> Hey if your Iphone can connect to an external HD project what are you worth?
[12:18:49] * Teltariat &
[12:19:55] <palowoda> s/project/projector
[12:20:36] <palowoda> All that I'm saying is what is in your pants may not be worth it.
[12:21:58] <clee> it might not be for you. I'm really pleased with it, though.
[12:22:12] <flyingparchment> how compatible is glassfish with the old web server?  is it likely a glassfish  monitoring  thingy would  work with webserver?
[12:22:53] <palowoda> old webserver == ?
[12:23:00] <flyingparchment> sun java system web server
[12:23:10] <flyingparchment> or is glassfish a different product?
[12:23:31] <palowoda> you mean the old netscape webserver?
[12:23:58] <flyingparchment> yeah, i think it was netscape a while ago
[12:24:11] <jteo> glassfish is different.
[12:24:40] <palowoda> An java application server and netscape (sun websever) arer two different products.
[12:24:57] <flyingparchment> but sun web server includes a java appserver
[12:25:27] <palowoda> The sun java appserver is free in opensolaris.  And?
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[12:25:47] <flyingparchment> ? i'm not talking about that appserver.
[12:25:53] <flyingparchment> is that appserver what glassfish is the next version of?
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[12:26:42] <palowoda> Ok your not taking about appserver and how glassfish is related.  But you are talking about Sun Webserver which is based on a C application?
[12:27:05] <flyingparchment> i'm asking if glassfish is the same product as java web server.  jteo says not.  so end of discussion.
[12:27:22] <palowoda> Hey go for it. :)
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[12:39:43] <hsn_> are there boot floppies available? how can i install solaris without booting from DVD?
[12:39:59] <hsn_> machine has no DVD
[12:40:21] <palowoda> Buy a CDDROM than.
[12:40:33] <palowoda> CDROM
[12:41:11] <palowoda> If all you have is a floppy for boot your in real trouble.
[12:41:28] <hsn_> its Rack server
[12:41:47] <palowoda> And all's that it has is a floppy?
[12:41:59] <Teltariat> Rack server from 1990?
[12:42:23] <hsn_> it have USB too, but i have no USB DVD drive
[12:42:57] <palowoda> Should boot from a USB DVD as long as the BIOS allows it which it should.
[12:42:58] <trygvis> iirc osol can't boot from usb dvd drives
[12:43:17] <Teltariat> Not surprising.
[12:43:30] <palowoda> Why can't osol boot from USB DVD's?
[12:43:47] <trygvis> dunno, but I've seen reports on it not working
[12:43:56] <palowoda> Oh you dunno.
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[13:08:35] <l1s> is the /usr/sfw/bin directory set in $PATH for default?
[13:08:50] <sparcdr> no
[13:08:55] <l1s> i need to use gcc and dont know weather its the only task to setup gcc.
[13:08:58] <sparcdr> try gcc for proof
[13:09:01] <sparcdr> it's easy
[13:09:04] <sparcdr> no it's one of two
[13:09:09] <l1s> gcc for proof?
[13:09:16] <sparcdr> it wont be in PATH
[13:09:17] <l1s> where to find a tutorial
[13:09:29] <sparcdr> set LD_LIBRARY_PATH and INCLUDE_PATH
[13:09:42] <sparcdr> to /usr/sfw/lib and /usr/sfw/include for instance
[13:09:48] <palowoda> a tutorial on gcc from Sun?
[13:09:49] <sparcdr> plus system lib/include
[13:09:52] <l1s> ah, ok
[13:10:03] <sparcdr> and PATH obviously
[13:10:03] <l1s> a tutorial to install gcc on opensolaris
[13:10:06] <sparcdr> so $PATH:/usr/sfw/bin
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[13:10:11] <sparcdr> it comes with gcc
[13:10:16] <sparcdr> you just have to set those
[13:10:19] <l1s> so gcc is completely installed with a complete install?
[13:10:22] <sparcdr> $LD_LIBRARY_PATH:/usr/sfw/lib
[13:10:25] <sparcdr> yes l1s
[13:10:33] <l1s> ok, thanks then i know how t go on
[13:10:37] <sparcdr> if you mean ada, c/c++, and fortran
[13:10:47] <l1s> and objc
[13:10:52] <palowoda> yes
[13:10:54] <sparcdr> and Sun Studio if you want a GUI and slightly more adherent and integrated compilers
[13:10:55] <sparcdr> yes
[13:10:56] <sparcdr> everything
[13:11:04] <palowoda> not classpath
[13:11:07] <sparcdr> take a look at Sun Studio
[13:11:13] <sparcdr> obviously, classpath sucks
[13:11:18] <sparcdr> gcj is useless now anyways
[13:11:19] <palowoda> I know.
[13:11:28] <l1s> i installed the sun studio already, since i do not want to compile ON with gcc
[13:11:37] <sparcdr> you cant still anyways
[13:11:46] <l1s> ah, ok
[13:11:50] <sparcdr> anyways just set those three environment variables
[13:11:59] <sparcdr> manpath also recommended
[13:12:12] <palowoda> Damn the gnu team went through all the effort and classpath isn't making a differnce in the market.
[13:12:21] <sparcdr> haha
[13:12:25] <l1s> hm, what are the default file to set the paths in?
[13:12:27] <sparcdr> it sucks?
[13:12:35] <sparcdr> .login
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[13:12:46] <sparcdr> for korn shell that is
[13:12:47] <l1s> i did a find /etc -type f | xargs grep $PATH=
[13:12:50] <sparcdr> if you use csh, .cshrc
[13:12:57] <l1s> ok
[13:13:00] <l1s> thanks
[13:13:02] <sparcdr> oh /etc/default/login in that case
[13:13:07] <palowoda> Hey sparcdr how did you thet the "TM" in the irc chat?
[13:13:16] <sparcdr> extended keyboard codes
[13:13:22] <sparcdr> a modifier on the kb
[13:13:44] <palowoda> You have the programmed as a keyboard sequence?
[13:13:49] 
[13:13:58] <palowoda> cool
[13:14:01] 
[13:14:26] 
[13:14:29] <sparcdr> :p
[13:14:40] <sparcdr> it depends on osx
[13:14:43] <sparcdr> *os
[13:15:02] <sparcdr> i dont think windows has one tbh, X11 does you have to figure it out though
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[13:15:07] <sparcdr> this Just Works ? ha
[13:15:08] <sparcdr> brb
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[13:15:50] <sparcdr> ill figure it out in a bit on my ultra-20 palowoda
[13:16:03] <palowoda> Not that it's going to make a big diff.  Just thought the lawyers should know. :)
[13:16:16] <sparcdr> about?
[13:16:18] <sparcdr> using those
[13:16:20] <sparcdr> heh
[13:16:34] <palowoda> heh
[13:17:05] <sparcdr> Lawyers learn stuff ? sparcdr go bye ?, opensolaris ? earth
[13:17:06] <sparcdr> etc
[13:17:16] * sparcdr is terrible
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[13:17:43] <palowoda> Hey they are the only ones making money these days.  You just have to know how to get a peice of it.
[13:18:04] <sparcdr> sure I do
[13:18:30] <palowoda> Hold them hostage to simple braindead things.
[13:18:31] <sparcdr> First eat cheese.  Pass gas then fart and I run with their moneybags
[13:18:59] <l1s> hm, what are the /etc/default files? when are they executed?
[13:19:20] <sparcdr> sorry?  it depends on the program or service
[13:19:30] <sparcdr> nfs uses "nfs" and it tells it what versions to use, timeout periods, etc
[13:19:37] <sparcdr> login is used by ksh
[13:19:39] <l1s> ah, ok
[13:20:01] <l1s> and the /etc/init.d ?
[13:20:06] <sparcdr> useless
[13:20:09] <palowoda> in opensolaris?
[13:20:10] <sparcdr> it's for legacy purposes
[13:20:13] <sparcdr> and it's permissions based
[13:20:22] <sparcdr> if it's set +x it executes
[13:20:34] <sparcdr> it finds the services on boot and tries running them
[13:20:45] <l1s> on linux you are able to simply add a file with $PATH additions that get executed at boot time, in opensolaris im only able to change $PATH with .login?
[13:20:45] <sparcdr> basically the same way as bsd, except smf can see them too
[13:20:52] <sparcdr> no
[13:20:57] <sparcdr> use login
[13:21:01] <sparcdr> that file I told you about
[13:21:06] <l1s> in /etc/default?
[13:21:06] <sparcdr> it's just commented out
[13:21:09] <sparcdr> yes
[13:21:16] <sparcdr> ksh is the default shell it uses that
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[13:21:18] <sparcdr> or /etc/profile
[13:21:25] <sparcdr> whatever floats your boat
[13:21:27] <l1s> ah profile...
[13:21:34] <palowoda> maybe learn about inetconv
[13:21:40] <sparcdr> yes, still there, linux copied linux afterall
[13:21:43] <sparcdr> *unix
[13:21:44] <sparcdr> blah
[13:21:45] <sparcdr> bbl
[13:21:50] <sparcdr> good luck l1s
[13:21:53] <l1s> there is no network that works right now...
[13:22:05] <sparcdr> svcadm enable network/physical:default
[13:22:29] <sparcdr> after editing /etc/defaultrouter (Just the ip, eg 10.0.1.1) and hostname.iface# (eg nge0)
[13:22:36] <sparcdr> also edit resolv.conf same format
[13:22:37] <palowoda> if you have no network how can it work?
[13:22:51] <l1s> who do you mean?
[13:22:59] <l1s> who do you talk to?
[13:23:02] <sparcdr> if you needed help on getting the network up, just use solaris 10's network admin docs
[13:23:06] <palowoda> Ted Kenndy
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[13:23:12] <sparcdr> they work for SXDE
[13:23:21] <sparcdr> I talk to James C (Me)
[13:23:27] <palowoda> And SXCE
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[13:23:30] <sparcdr> right
[13:23:40] <sparcdr> any NV related stuff
[13:23:55] <palowoda> We should shorten it to N.
[13:24:02] <sparcdr> Belenix, Nexenta, SXCE/SXDE, Sol10
[13:24:08] <sparcdr> that's a trademark
[13:24:10] <sparcdr> of ...
[13:24:21] <palowoda> Oh Nexenta the bastard release.
[13:24:22] 
[13:24:26] <palowoda> Forgot about that.
[13:24:27] <sparcdr> haha
[13:24:28] <sparcdr> nasty
[13:24:33] <sparcdr> Ubuntu gone sunos
[13:24:35] <sparcdr> makes me cringe
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[13:24:52] <palowoda> Hey Nexenta == Indiana
[13:24:55] <sparcdr> bye
[13:25:02] <sparcdr> nexenta = debian
[13:25:03] <l1s> bye
[13:25:06] <sparcdr> debian had network stuff for ages
[13:25:10] <sparcdr> i blame it on debian
[13:25:13] <sparcdr> and lametards
[13:25:27] <palowoda> I need some sleep, it's been wierd.
[13:25:34] <sparcdr> i need some dr
[13:25:36] <sparcdr> peper
[13:25:39] <sparcdr> ... :D
[13:25:49] <l1s> hmmm good point
[13:26:04] <l1s> i get some coffe and a dr. peper\
[13:26:19] <sparcdr> lametards being grandma + joe && debian;  end result = fail;
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[13:31:50] <JWheeler> how can I tell if my SATA disk is operating in native mode?
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[13:49:20] <hsn_> what is native mode?
[13:49:53] <FallenHitokiri> is it possible to use zfs like raid1 + lvm? mirror 2 disks and if I need more space mirror 2 new disks (different size) and expand my first one?
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[13:50:18] <kjetilho> FallenHitokiri: yes
[13:50:29] <l1s> FallenHitokiri: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs/
[13:50:38] <FallenHitokiri> kjetilho: l1s great. thanks
[13:51:04] <l1s> basic questions are documented...
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[13:51:37] <FallenHitokiri> l1s: just wanted to know if it is possible before i start reading the doc :)
[13:51:38] <kjetilho> l1s: come on, at least it's on-topic :)
[13:52:20] <l1s> hmmm, i ask myselfe how long that will last...
[13:53:46] <JWheeler> hsn_, you can run sata drives in pata compability mode
[13:57:01] <hsn_> i think NCQ support is still not done
[13:59:06] <JWheeler> hmm
[13:59:49] <JWheeler> I know that full support for my nvidia chipset was putback in 72, I'm on 71, but I also have a silicon image sata controller, and was thinking about moving my disks there
[14:00:13] <JWheeler> it would be helpful if I could check if there was a difference without having to benchmark both combinations
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[14:04:27] <FallenHitokiri> what are the minimum resources I should give a vm (virtualbox or vmware) for solaris express b74, just to test zfs and play arount with the system (I don't need X)
[14:05:16] <flyingparchment> fallen: 512M is the absolute minimum if you want any kind of performance
[14:05:17] <hsn_> if minimum == solaris boots, then 128mb ram should do
[14:05:38] <flyingparchment> 256M is the minimum to install (the installer needs that much to run)
[14:06:13] <FallenHitokiri> flyingparchment: performance is not this important, I just want to be sure that if I put solaris on my new fileserver I know what I am doing
[14:06:17] <FallenHitokiri> thanks
[14:06:33] <quasi> flyingparchment: you can probably get away with less if you're jumpstarting
[14:06:36] <flyingparchment> make sure you do a normal solaris install, don't select 'developer edition' from the menu
[14:06:42] <flyingparchment> otherwise you'll need 768M to install
[14:06:49] <FallenHitokiri> flyingparchment: okay, thanks
[14:06:50] <l1s> http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=solaris+minimum+requirements&meta=
[14:06:59] <l1s> i just shut up my mouth...
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[14:08:04] <flyingparchment> quasi: hmm, perhaps, but doesn't jumpstart still need to load the miniroot?
[14:08:14] <flyingparchment> quasi: i was under the impression that's the part that required all the memory
[14:08:27] <flyingparchment> (assuming we're talking about x86 here)
[14:09:05] <quasi> flyingparchment: the question is how much of the miniroot it needs to load
[14:09:26] <flyingparchment> surely it has to load all of it, it's basically a compressed filesystem
[14:09:52] <quasi> flyingparchment: I'm not sure, but previously js has been useful for low mem installs
[14:10:27] <flyingparchment> since this is a vm, you might get away with reducing the memory after booting
[14:10:36] <flyingparchment> but honestly.. who wants to run solaris with 128M RAM anyway :)
[14:10:47] <flyingparchment> er, after installing, not after booting
[14:16:17] <kjetilho> quasi: the issue is graphical install or text install.  the miniroot is the same, though.
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[14:45:40] <bda> "See how Cisco technology is redefining collaboration: welcome to the human network" # not creepy at all.
[14:46:57] <flyingparchment> bda: a joke about where ethernet cable could be inserted is just gasping to be made
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[14:47:49] <bda> Gasping or grunting, one wonders.
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[15:02:33] <morteng> hi, I have a problem with nmap on opensolaris.  WARNING: Unable to find appropriate interface for system route to 0.64.0.0
[15:08:45] <quasi> morteng: looks a bit like a botched commandline
[15:10:38] <morteng>   I did this one   #   nmap -A -T4 scanme.nmap.org playground
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[15:12:41] <morteng> http://bbs.chinaunix.net/viewthread.php?tid=670330   same problem but FreeBSD and chinese,  can anyone understand ?
[15:15:47] <morteng> after the warnings I get a scan result from scanme.nmap.org, so it looks like a correct commandline.  I can pastebin it so you can compare.
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[15:36:08] <SYS64738> hi
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[15:36:38] <SYS64738> could you someone give some hints to setup a log server (I must collect logs from many devices) ?
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[15:37:37] <quasi> SYS64738: seems a bit misplaced here, but take a look at syslog-ng
[15:38:19] <SYS64738> the logger in opensolaris cannot accept remote logging ?
[15:38:22] <morten1> Sorry I had to disconnect, I have deleted the MAC address here is my pastebin   http://pastebin.com/f6679cb77
[15:38:45] <quasi> SYS64738: yes it can
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[15:39:14] <SYS64738> quasi, however do you advice to me to install syslog-ng ?
[15:39:16] <quasi> SYS64738: but syslog-ng seems nicer (to me) for large amounts of data
[15:39:22] <SYS64738> ok thanks
[15:39:25] <morten1> I have to repair my nick, I am morteng
[15:39:31] <kjetilho> we're using plain syslog no problem with gigabytes per day
[15:39:54] <quasi> SYS64738: or see http://www.campin.net/newlogcheck.html
[15:40:08] <kjetilho> of course you need to keep an eye on the server -- if load gets high (I/O or CPU), it *will* drop messages
[15:40:25] <gcmandrake> morten1: why should we believe you?  tell us one thing that only morteng would know
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[15:40:27] <gcmandrake> ;-)
[15:41:03] <quasi> kjetilho: sure - it all depends on the situation - I like the fact that syslog-ng is good at filtering and that it does tcp
[15:42:01] <SYS64738> than is it better to use an entirel server instead try to use small zone to setup this thing ?
[15:42:15] <kjetilho> depends on your requirements
[15:42:55] <kjetilho> in our case, with ~10 GB logs per day, it makes sense to do it on a separate server with lots of disk
[15:43:12] <SYS64738> kjetilho, in your case how many devices do you control ?
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[15:43:26] <kjetilho> a couple of thousand
[15:43:33] <SYS64738> eheh
[15:43:49] <SYS64738> cool
[15:44:01] <morteng> I'm here
[15:44:05] <SYS64738> what are the hw specs of you log server ?
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[15:44:38] <morteng> please take a look at my pastebin.  #  http://pastebin.com/f6679cb77
[15:44:39] <kjetilho> SYS64738: I don't recall (I didn't set it up), I think it's a Dell PE2850
[15:45:00] <SYS64738> kjetilho, with solaris ?
[15:45:11] <kjetilho> no, it's actually Linux.
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[15:45:42] <SYS64738> with linux you can use a very small kernel for doing this thing
[15:46:05] <flyingparchment> yes.  because spending hours recompiling a kernel is the best way to optimise a syslog server.
[15:46:17] <SYS64738> hours ?
[15:46:38] <kjetilho> you don't need any RAM for syslogging anyway, and you can't buy a server with less than 1 GiB RAM (if you can even get that)
[15:47:26] <SYS64738> I have a fujitsu with quad core and 4 GB, and I don't know if using all for this thing or try to put something like xen
[15:47:45] <kjetilho> the main problem with the Solaris syslogd is that you can't turn off flush after each written log line.
[15:48:01] <kjetilho> this means you get very dependent on I/O performance
[15:48:30] <kjetilho> your Fujitsu is clearly overkill :-)
[15:48:55] <SYS64738> I already have two other fujitsu with sx69, and having a linux server will be very nice to extend compatibility
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[15:50:00] <quasi> why not just stick it all in a zone - if you find spare power, you can always add zones and if you don't, the overhead is minimal
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[15:50:56] <SYS64738> quasi, you are right, I could try this in a zone
[15:51:11] <SYS64738> and see how it goes
[15:51:40] <SYS64738> I think it's the best solution, so first I can understand syslog-ng
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[15:52:49] <SYS64738> however I need the third machine to backup or keep logs of the two solaris box
[15:53:22] <SYS64738> and I would like using linux for this so I can use things like tivoli over it
[15:53:59] <SYS64738> I love zfs, raid1, hotspares, rsync and tivoli :)
[15:54:24] * quasi absolutely detests tivoli software
[15:55:35] <SYS64738> I saw things that you humans ....
[15:58:32] <quasi> tsm probably isn't any worse than the rest out there as long as you don't have morons managing it
[15:59:06] <quasi> tivoli monitoring however <expletives deleted>
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[16:12:14] <tek-ops> Has anyone here successfully built the GNU gcc suite on amd64 opensolaris with 64-bit support?
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[16:13:15] <morteng> I use gcc  on amd64  it was pre installed
[16:13:32] <tek-ops> I'm trying to build 4.2.1
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[16:13:50] <tek-ops> SXDR come with 3.4.3
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[16:17:22] <morteng> I have here gcc version 4.0.2   , how can I please find out if the binaries are 64 bit, please?
[16:17:47] <tek-ops> I don't know yet
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[16:17:51] <jteo> morteng: man file
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[16:21:44] <morteng>  file /lib/libc.so.1  says 32 bit     ELF 32-bit LSB dynamic lib 80386 Version 1
[16:27:17] 
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[16:30:55] <Symmetria> hrm, is there a faster way to remove a directory that has 80 thousand files in it than rm -rf
[16:31:06] <dlg> newfs
[16:31:15] <Symmetria> errr without killing the whole filesystem :p
[16:31:59] <dlg> wait the rm out
[16:32:15] <Symmetria> heh ok *shrug* just wondered if there was a faster way
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[16:33:24] <flyingparchment> what is an smnp "master agent"?
[16:33:25] <Stric> remove them in the order they are in the dir.. ie what find outputs..
[16:35:00] <kjetilho> Symmetria: you can also consider using fastfs which turns of synchronous meta data updates
[16:35:56] <Symmetria> kjetilho any major disadvantages to that?
[16:36:12] <kjetilho> if you have a power outage, fsck may not be able to salvage the fs
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[16:36:51] <Symmetria> hrm
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[16:39:39] <tek-ops> when building open source software do you use sun's c compilter of the gnu c compiler?
[16:39:46] <tek-ops> just an open question to the group
[16:40:19] <trygvis> when I'm packaging stuff for blastwave I try with sun's cc and if that fails I go with gcc
[16:40:43] <trygvis> sometimes it is easy to patch it so it compiles cleanly
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[16:41:08] <tek-ops> but gcc is the fall back?
[16:41:13] <trygvis> yep
[16:41:18] <tek-ops> hmmm
[16:41:27] <tek-ops> which version of gcc are you using?
[16:41:37] <dynamicproxy> trygvis : Do you build firefox using Sun STudio ? Or do you use gcc ?
[16:42:12] <trygvis> I don't build it
[16:42:17] <trygvis> you can see the build on svn.blastwave.org
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[16:48:56] <trygvis> here to be exact: http://svn.blastwave.org/trac/browser/csw/trunk/apps/firefox/Makefile
[16:49:20] <trygvis> if would be using gcc it would have GARCOMPILER = GNU
[16:49:31] <morteng>  tek-ops:   when I build open source,  developed under debian, I face problems with both compilers,  I will try to develop under BrandZ  and use g++,  there are too many linux features , at least with tntnet  C++ server pages.   evan gmake  and AR=gar  has to be done.
[16:50:46] <tek-ops> GAR?
[16:51:08] <trygvis> the buildsystem that blastwave use
[16:51:25] <tek-ops> ahh, gotcha
[16:54:52] <morteng> gnu archiver  AR=GAR   has sometimes to be set as option when ./configure is started.
[16:55:23] <dynamicproxy> trygvis : This is interesting. When I build FFox using Sun Studio, I need to change the PATH, LD_LIBRARY_PATH and, if on a freshly installed SXCE, create a few symlinks.
[16:55:50] <kjetilho> morteng: GNU ar has no relation to gar
[16:56:09] <kjetilho> btw, I've never had any compatibility problems with GNU vs. Solaris ar
[16:56:28] <morteng> I have the details written maybe gmake AR=GAR
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[17:03:54] <morteng> ./configure  AR=gar    it is discussed here,  http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.tntnet/14
[17:04:55] <tek-ops> great, thanks :)
[17:05:42] <morteng>  gar  -V    GNU ar 2.17    I got onfos from another guy, and i came to the conclusion thet a Branded Zone with native centOS red hat or fedora would be better.
[17:06:57] <morteng> we cannot enforce a debian developer to adjust to opensolaris.
[17:09:21] <morteng> here is a very good article  from I am Not a Number http://blogs.sun.com/nilsn/entry/installing_a_debian_zone_with
[17:16:14] <trygvis> that won't work for long, the kernel emulated in brandz is very old
[17:16:44] <tek-ops> damn
[17:16:56] <tek-ops> i was just about to do some performance benchmarking with brandz
[17:17:07] <trygvis> around june 2003 it seems
[17:17:08] <tek-ops> care to save me some time?
[17:17:30] <trygvis> benchmarking brandz against what?
[17:17:41] <tek-ops> as a webserver
[17:17:50] <trygvis> vs?
[17:17:57] <tek-ops> linux xen
[17:18:48] * dlg will bet on brandz
[17:18:51] <trygvis> do you need the linux kernel?
[17:19:02] <trygvis> yeah, brandz will definitely be faster
[17:19:15] <trygvis> but by how much I wonder
[17:21:03] <kjetilho> morteng: you should add /usr/ccs/bin to your PATH, that's where ar lives on Solaris
[17:21:24] <morteng>  trygvis:   kernel emulated in brandz ?  before I start with brandZ I'd like to know more,  ABI Kernel glibc, please, tellMeMore ;-)
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[17:24:42] <morteng> kjetilho:  I could do so, but there are lots of more to take care of.
[17:26:44] <trygvis> morteng: try google
[17:27:07] <trygvis> but basically you get a 2.4.21 kernel running and then you point it to a compatible /sbin/init
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[17:28:45] <morteng> interesting.  I will take a notice of thet.
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[17:30:17] <flyingparchment> is there an ndd variable that controls default socket buffer size?
[17:36:29] <Sporq> sun should integrate clustering into the core solaris product.
[17:36:36] <Sporq> like tru64/trucluster.
[17:36:39] <Sporq> that would rock.
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[17:37:28] <morteng>   http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid39_gci1269211,00.html   says   Regardless of the underlying kernel, only 32-bit Linux applications are able to run.  but it reads promising.
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[17:38:59] <trygvis> I'm a bit uncertain what sun want to do with the lx brand as they're not updating it
[17:39:08] <trygvis> the latest RHEL you can run on it is v3 iirc
[17:40:50] <tek-ops> damn, building mythtv is such a pain
[17:40:51] <tek-ops> hahaha
[17:41:15] <morteng> Some times Linux changes ABI on purpose, and I even have to use $LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=  a.b.c   and that I don't like.
[17:41:28] <estibi_> Sporq: not only SunCluster, but also DirectoryServer
[17:41:49] <tek-ops> anyways, I'm definitely going to do the performance testing
[17:41:56] <Sporq> the trucluster integration into tru64 made clusters sooooooo simple.
[17:42:05] <trygvis> tek-ops: can't the app run directly on solaris?
[17:42:13] <tek-ops> mythtv?
[17:42:20] <trygvis> right
[17:42:23] <tek-ops> sure
[17:42:24] <trygvis> can it run in xen?
[17:42:33] <tek-ops> but it's pre-req checking is kinda.... meh
[17:42:49] <tek-ops> I'd prefer not run it in xen
[17:42:58] <trygvis> there was this one guy from sun that almost had mythtv running on plain osol
[17:43:13] <trygvis> might have been this: http://www.guug.de/veranstaltungen/osdevcon2007/slides/OSMythTV.pdf
[17:43:37] <trygvis> http://blogs.sun.com/alanp/entry/the_opensolaris_developers_conference
[17:43:50] <tek-ops> I had not seen that, thank you
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[17:47:33] <tek-ops> hah, so it's not going to be pleasent i guess
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[17:49:14] <tek-ops> damn, I just want to browse my movies without a mouse ....
[17:49:20] <tek-ops> hahaha
[17:49:23] <trygvis> I guess not if you want to run it directly on osol
[17:49:35] <tek-ops> well the file server is osol
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[17:54:18] <morteng> the story about mythTV was interesting, mac OSX is in the next version UNIX certified by the open group.
[17:54:52] <morteng> that could mean that useland darwin open source could easily be ported to opensolaris.
[17:56:04] <tek-ops> well, without aqua that is
[17:56:45] <morteng> darwin + aqua = mac OSX , correct?
[17:56:50] <tek-ops> yea
[17:57:21] <tek-ops> but you can always use xorg with darwin and still have GUI if that's what you want
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[17:57:48] <trygvis> but why would anyone want to run darwin these days?
[17:58:25] <jteo> cos i have an iphone fetish
[17:59:09] <trygvis> does it run darwin? the same kernel?
[17:59:14] <morteng> I feel darwin is close to BSD  and I have registered  at apple as a darwin developer.  Mac is not  to be run on  general purpose hardware.
[17:59:36] <jteo> trygvis: supposedly yes, compiled for ARM.
[17:59:54] <morteng> iphone runs darwin. sure.
[18:00:10] <trygvis> morteng: osx uses some bits of the freebsd userland, but I would never call osx a unix like the other unixes
[18:00:33] <trygvis> it might be certified but it is really different from linux and (open)solaris
[18:00:48] <morteng> appreciated.  ;-)
[18:00:50] <gcmandrake> what exactly is Mac?
[18:01:07] <trygvis> good question :)
[18:01:20] <gcmandrake> and the current line of Macs are commodity hardware with a trusted platform module and EFI...
[18:02:02] <dlg> tsk
[18:02:13] <morteng> http://developer.apple.com/opensource/index.html  register  and fetch the code,  mac is also  some piece of hardware.
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[18:02:33] <gcmandrake> that doesn't look like mac, but Darwin...
[18:02:36] <gcmandrake> Mac is hardware
[18:03:16] <morteng> Mac OS X  is software.
[18:03:32] <gcmandrake> it's Mac OS X, not Mac
[18:03:49] <gcmandrake> and it definitely ain't opensource
[18:03:50] <morteng> true, at least boolean true.
[18:03:55] <trygvis> mac is just short for macintosh!
[18:04:03] <gcmandrake> Darwin, sure... but not OS X
[18:04:28] <gcmandrake> yea, apparently steve thought macintosh was too hard to pronounce ;)
[18:05:10] <morteng> if you can brick it, it is a mac.
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[18:16:14] <tek-ops> Darwin is mainly the Mach Kernel (developed at CMU) with a lot of code from FreeBSD
[18:17:33] <gcmandrake> yea, it's a mach kernel running parts of a bsd kernel as a server
[18:17:36] <gcmandrake> as well as various other servers
[18:19:39] <tek-ops> hmmm, I wonder about running freevo on osol
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[18:20:45] <e^ipi> heyhey
[18:21:13] <tek-ops> hey e^ipi
[18:21:30] <jteo> wb e^ipi
[18:21:39] <e^ipi> thx
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[18:27:27] <tek-ops> hmmm
[18:27:45] <tek-ops> I get "illegal option -Wall" with the provided pycc
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[18:31:08] <tek-ops> ahh, I needed to specify CC as /usr/sfw/bin/gcc
[18:32:31] <tek-ops> hmmm, this project is looking for linux/types.h
[18:33:10] <tomww> msg tek-ops #define freevo ?
[18:33:17] <tomww> oops
[18:34:14] <tek-ops> it's a fullscreen GUI for browsing and loading movies, images, etc
[18:34:28] <tek-ops> just trying to get added benefit out of my fileserver
[18:35:42] <tek-ops> is there an equivalent types.h?
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[18:36:44] <tomww> tek-ops: you know the spec-files-extra thing? there many of there thinks are already dealt with.
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[18:38:59] <tek-ops> thanks, I'm looking into it now
[18:39:00] <tek-ops> :)
[18:40:20] <tomww> if you have questions, don't hesitate to ask. just copy one of the existing SFE*.spec and modify it for freevo
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[18:48:03] <tek-ops> thanks tomww
[18:48:08] <tek-ops> but how do you mean?
[18:48:16] <tek-ops> I'm still reading up on SFE, this is new to me
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[18:50:26] <tomww> I know SFE and the common build environment very well, so if you start using it, i can help
[18:56:34] <tek-ops> great
[18:57:07] <tek-ops> actually, before I get any deeper into this, do you know how to add to the man directories path?
[18:57:25] <tek-ops> setting MAN_PATH in /etc/profile seems to be causing issues for me
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[19:00:15] <jamesd> your shell is not bash usually... so  export  MANPATH=blah:blahblah   won't work you need to do     MANPATH=blah:blahblah;   export MANPATH
[19:00:39] <tek-ops> I'm actually using bash though
[19:00:59] <tek-ops> for instance, there's no man entry for zpool
[19:01:34] <tek-ops> then I unset MANPATH and it works
[19:02:11] <jamesd> /usr/share/man/man1m/zpool.1m
[19:02:13] <Triskelios> don't put non-sh stuff in profile, anyway
[19:02:30] <tek-ops> ok
[19:02:39] <tek-ops> why is that, if you don't mind me ask
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[19:03:59] <legolas> Hi all
[19:04:12] <legolas> Is it possible to add more OS to Solaris boot system?
[19:04:33] <legolas> for example a windows OS on another Hard disk and a Linux on another one? (SATA disks)
[19:04:36] <gcmandrake> if you're using it on x86, you'd just add the entries to grub
[19:05:29] <legolas> Can you please explain the steps?
[19:05:51] <gcmandrake> the set-up is yours, if you can use Unix you can use a man page, right?
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[19:06:14] <gcmandrake> http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/
[19:06:43] <g4lt-mordant> do NOT refer people to the GNU grub for solaris's grub.  it's reworked rather significantly
[19:06:48] <gcmandrake> entries go in menu.lst, and partitions are in the format (hdx,x)
[19:06:55] <gcmandrake> for solaris, sure
[19:06:58] <gcmandrake> but not for booting others
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[19:07:16] <gcmandrake> it will still use the same nomenclature for partitions
[19:07:29] <gcmandrake> for windows, you'll just be chainloading anyway
[19:07:46] <g4lt-mordant> leegand the short answer is "maybe", solaris grub MAY work chainloading linux, but isn't necessarily guaranteed to work
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[19:08:09] <g4lt-mordant> legolas, ^^^^
[19:08:17] <gcmandrake> it's guaranteed to chainload if there is a bootloader present on the partition you're trying to chainload a bootloader
[19:08:31] <gcmandrake> I'm not sure if it will directly boot a linux kernel, though
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[19:08:49] <gcmandrake> that could be one of its modifications, so chainloading is your best bet if solaris' grub is your primary bootloader
[19:09:16] <g4lt-mordant> yeah, don't listeen to me, I haven't been helping people for years or anything
[19:09:22] <gcmandrake> nm, I just checked sun's docs on it
[19:09:25] <gcmandrake> I was correct
[19:09:33] <Triskelios> solaris grub doesn't have any incompatible changes, so it should boot linux as well as any other grub
[19:09:35] <gcmandrake> so the smartass comment wasn't necessary ;)
[19:09:38] <gcmandrake> http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/features/articles/grub_boot_solaris.html
[19:09:40] <gcmandrake> Triskelios: thanks
[19:09:49] <tek-ops> woah
[19:09:52] <gcmandrake> apparently it WILL boot a linux kernel directly
[19:09:53] <dynamicproxy> +t 10 gcmandrake. I boot Ubuntu as well as Windows using Solaris grub.
[19:09:56] <tek-ops> when was 74 released?
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[19:10:19] <Triskelios> 3 or 4 days ago publicly
[19:10:20] <legolas> Thank you all for reply. I will search for chain loading and i hope i could make it possible.
[19:10:33] <tek-ops> nice nice
[19:10:36] <gcmandrake> legolas: just pay attention to that last link I sent
[19:10:38] <tek-ops> so xVM is back in?
[19:10:42] <gcmandrake> that's directly from sun
[19:10:47] <Triskelios> b75 is being respun
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[19:11:07] <gcmandrake> as you'll see, it behaves exactly the same as vanilla gnu grub when it isn't booting solaris (the modification to grub in solaris is only for the interaction with the solaris kernel)
[19:11:22] <Triskelios> and zfs!
[19:11:25] <gcmandrake> yep
[19:11:32] <gcmandrake> zfs support :)
[19:11:48] <flyingparchment> it has some extra pxe stuff too
[19:12:59] <legolas> I have download the Solaris Express developer edition, Does it has some updating mechanism? I mean is it possible to update the OS through Internet or i must install the new version from some DVD or iso images?
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[19:13:22] <tek-ops> LiveUpgrade is what I used to use
[19:13:35] <tek-ops> though is there a new way?
[19:13:40] <g4lt-mordant> nope
[19:13:45] <Triskelios> legolas: no online update is possible yet
[19:13:52] <flyingparchment> legolas: you can't "update", but you can "upgrade", e.g. with liveupgrade
[19:14:00] <Triskelios> tek-ops: that will have to wait for indiana
[19:14:10] * g4lt-mordant hits Triskelios
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[19:14:17] <tek-ops> right
[19:14:18] <g4lt-mordant> sorry, reflex
[19:14:21] <tek-ops> upgrade
[19:14:22] <tek-ops> LU
[19:14:42] <legolas> liveUpgrade is done by using downloaded DVD image?
[19:14:53] <flyingparchment> legolas: yes
[19:15:03] <legolas> and update is possible in Indiana version? when will that version come out?
[19:15:08] <tek-ops> as well as it keeps a copy of your previous install, in case something doesnt go as planned
[19:15:23] <e^ipi> developer preview this month apparently
[19:15:28] <e^ipi> more general release in march IIRC
[19:15:36] <flyingparchment> what?  there's some actual indiana code?
[19:15:53] <g4lt-mordant> and TEOSAWKI in april :(
[19:16:21] <Triskelios> the end is near for sx
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[19:17:11] <g4lt-mordant> debian solaris, god help us all
[19:17:18] <tek-ops> hahaha
[19:17:40] <tek-ops> well, ian solaris at least
[19:17:57] <g4lt-mordant> even dclarke has fallen into the clutches of PI
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[19:28:29] <legolas> what is solaris cluster use?
[19:28:57] <legolas> Is it a replacment for Database or Application server clustering mechanism?
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[19:29:03] <g4lt-mordant> ENOPARSE
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[19:29:22] <flyingparchment> legolas: cluster provides failover for applications.  if your application has its own ha, you don't need cluster
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[19:29:29] <flyingparchment> legolas: but cluster integrates with lots of software
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[19:31:06] <e^ipi> I wonder why I keep getting punted off the wifi
[19:32:08] <legolas> Does Solaris play Divx, OGG, Wmv, Mp3 and other media files?
[19:32:45] <jbk> some, but there are licensing issues
[19:32:48] <jamesd> you can install mplayer,  xmms   etc...
[19:32:54] <g4lt-mordant> legolas, the standard-included rhythmbox does good on mp3/ogg, never tried wmv or divx
[19:33:01] <jbk> at the moment
[19:33:45] <gcmandrake> yea, mplayer is a good option
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[19:56:07] <legolas> Is there any article about Solaris Indiana version, what feature it has that make it better?
[19:56:24] <tek-ops> hmm
[19:56:30] <tek-ops> so SFE is for rpms?
[19:56:43] <alanc> legolas: first we have to make Indiana exists
[19:57:44] <legolas> So it is not planned yet?
[19:57:45] <storycrafter> anybody with experience building cmd/sgs (not sure what consolidation that'd be...tools?)
[19:57:49] <legolas> Another Question or maybe suggestion that i have is about a media player for Solaris, does any one have some time to look at http://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-sources.html and let the new users to have a compiled version of this player for Solaris X86.
[19:58:07] <alanc> legolas: it is planned, but not yet built
[19:58:21] <gcmandrake> compiling your own is always an option, too
[19:58:22] <alanc> being worked on
[19:58:30] <gcmandrake> if you can't wait, at least
[19:58:42] <Triskelios> alanc: vlc itself, or gstreamer plugin improvements?
[19:59:24] <legolas> In windows and Linux VLC can play many format, I think it can play those format in Solaris too.
[19:59:39] <alanc> Triskelios: sorry, thread mixing - I was still answering the Indiana thread
[19:59:42] <gcmandrake> mplayer is a fine option, though
[19:59:49] <g4lt-mordant> legolas, it's an open question as to whether PI will make opensolaris BETTER at all
[19:59:55] <Triskelios> vlc is not a particularly good  player
[20:00:05] <storycrafter> legolas: http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/vlc
[20:00:09] <tek-ops> I actualy prefer mplayer
[20:00:10] <Gman> tek-ops, SFE is a set of build recipes to create solaris packages (standard sysV ones)
[20:00:15] <gcmandrake> agreed, mplayer is a better option (IMO)
[20:00:33] <Triskelios> alanc: ahh, ok
[20:00:37] <g4lt-mordant> mplayer has some pretty heavy mods needed for sparc though
[20:00:38] <alanc> brian cameron works on the GNOME multimedia stuff, he'd know what's being worked on for gstreamer & stuff
[20:00:52] <quasi> g4lt-mordant: my money is still on PI making life suck for the rest of opensolaris
[20:01:07] <Triskelios> alanc: okay
[20:01:16] <g4lt-mordant> mostly mplayer is pretty gcc-dependent, so most of it is getting rid of the gcc-isms
[20:01:44] <gcmandrake> that would be welcome
[20:01:51] <legolas> G4LT, do you mean that PI is not good?
[20:01:56] <tek-ops> tomww how is this going to help me build freevo?
[20:02:00] <Triskelios> I'll be adding the missing gst codec plugins to SFE probably
[20:02:55] <g4lt-mordant> legolas, a large proportion of the present has verly little nice to say about PI, mostly because PI started life as a bunch of press releases bashing what makes solaris unique
[20:03:05] <g4lt-mordant> present community that is
[20:04:15] <quasi> lack of respect and sucking up to a smull bunch of lunix gnu zealots
[20:04:30] <gcmandrake> that makes me sick
[20:04:33] <tek-ops> oooh, I see, they've dealt with linux/types.h before
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[20:07:33] <g4lt-mordant> what I'd really like to play with is a sunstudio-based ports-kinda-thingy, except utilizing dmake to its full extent and avoiding the gentooization pitfalls
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[20:09:22] <Triskelios> I just want binaries distributed for SFE
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[20:12:36] <tek-ops> hah, damn it's hard compiling projects designed for linux in opensolaris
[20:12:50] <g4lt-mordant> ayup
[20:13:37] <g4lt-mordant> thast's one of the reasons I'd like a sunstudio-based compile tree, so that you know what you CAN build with suncc
[20:13:52] <tek-ops> i'm even using gcc
[20:14:07] <tek-ops> inotify errors
[20:14:11] * g4lt-mordant gets out the wood and torches
[20:14:13] <Triskelios> g4lt-mordant: SFE is mostly that right now, with some exceptions
[20:14:34] <tek-ops> look
[20:14:45] <tek-ops> my girlfriend is used to having a mythtv box
[20:15:08] <tek-ops> so I need to come up with a similar solution for the solaris box
[20:15:19] <g4lt-mordant> tivsol? ;P
[20:15:22] <tek-ops> which is my new file server (gotta justify the expense to her)
[20:15:32] <g4lt-mordant> we gotta come up with a catchy name ofr the idea
[20:15:39] <Triskelios> there isn't a good reason a lot of the backend stuff won't work, except e.g. lirc
[20:15:50] <tek-ops> well
[20:16:04] <tek-ops> we have a wireless keyboard, which suffices as a remote on mythtv
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[20:16:06] <g4lt-mordant> ir works in solaris, I use my IR keyboard and mouse all the time
[20:16:09] <tek-ops> freevo would even work
[20:16:17] <tek-ops> usb wireless works as well
[20:16:34] <tek-ops> I'm proving that right now trying to compile freevo on it
[20:16:54] <tek-ops> non-bluetooth
[20:16:56] <g4lt-mordant> in fact, I'm playing with the idea of using my PDA as a remote on my craptop
[20:17:21] <tek-ops> well anyways, I gave up on myth for that obvious reason
[20:17:27] <Triskelios> I'm going to pester the Beijing folks about Bluetooth today
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[20:19:07] <phrost> is there a guide for doing updates / security updates anywhere?
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[20:20:07] <Triskelios> phrost: Sol 10 has the sun update manager GUI
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[20:20:44] <phrost> Triskelios: i'm running snv b70
[20:20:58] <phrost> Triskelios: i glanced at that, do you have to register and pay sun $240/yr for it?
[20:21:09] <Triskelios> there are no patches for SX, you have to do a full upgrade atm
[20:21:32] <Triskelios> security updates for S10 are free
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[20:33:21] <tek-ops> hmmm, I have libraries in /opt/csw/lib that I want to be able to link in while building other open sourced projects
[20:33:38] <tek-ops> is there a "best practices" way to do this?
[20:33:43] <flyingparchment> tek-ops: set $LD_RUN_PATH before building
[20:33:52] <tek-ops> don't leave it globally?
[20:33:58] <flyingparchment> no.  it only affects linking anyway
[20:34:06] <g4lt-mordant> bah, crle FTW
[20:34:19] <tek-ops> well, can I just set it globally for future builds?
[20:34:20] <flyingparchment> you'll also (iirc) need LDFLAGS=-L/opt/csw/lib, or --with-library=/opt/csw (or whatever autoconf/etc flags)
[20:34:32] <flyingparchment> sure, but it might confuse software not meant to use libraries from that directory
[20:34:41] <tek-ops> well this one isn't a make, it's a setup.py
[20:37:04] <RainDoctor> does opensolaris support amd processors?
[20:37:10] <flyingparchment> rain: of course
[20:37:23] <RainDoctor> thanks, i am seeing a good deal
[20:37:35] <RainDoctor>   http://www.staples.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StaplesProductDisplay?storeId=10001&jspStoreDir=Staples&AID=10422268&partNumber=715080&cm_mmc=CJ-_-affiliate-_-feed-_-listing&PID=1260291&catalogId=10051&langId=-1#desclink
[20:38:56] <flyingparchment> tek-ops: the other method that galt mentioned is crle.  it's like LD_RUN_PATH, except instead of setting the path in the binary, it applies to all applications
[20:39:03] <tek-ops> what's the chipset of the board, is that drive sata?
[20:39:16] <tek-ops> ahhh
[20:39:35] <tek-ops> oh hah!
[20:39:37] <flyingparchment> you still need to find a way to pass -L if you use that (i don't know how for python off hand)
[20:39:38] <tek-ops> that's awesome!
[20:39:46] <tek-ops> like ld.so.conf
[20:39:56] <tek-ops> sorry, I just come from over a decade of linux use
[20:40:03] <flyingparchment> the problem with crle is you sometimes (unfortunately) end up with two libfoo.so.1 that aren't the same - and different binaries need different ones
[20:40:34] <g4lt-mordant> actually, the real problem with crle is you can REALLY screw things up quickly
[20:40:41] <flyingparchment> that too
[20:40:48] <flyingparchment> remember to add /lib and /usr/lib ;)
[20:41:36] <tek-ops> and /lib/secure and /usr/lib/secure
[20:41:39] <g4lt-mordant> actually, the short thing here is remember,crle doesn't APPEND, it REPLACES the ld list
[20:41:51] <tek-ops> damn it says platform 32bit
[20:41:54] <tek-ops> I'm on AMD64
[20:41:58] <flyingparchment> tek-ops: no, that's for the secure list, you modify that separately
[20:41:58] <tek-ops> err amd64
[20:42:02] <flyingparchment> tek-ops: what says that?
[20:42:09] <tek-ops> crle
[20:42:14] <tek-ops> 80386
[20:42:23] <flyingparchment> where?
[20:42:41] <flyingparchment> crle handles both 32-bit and 64-bit link paths
[20:42:45] <tek-ops> when i run it with no arguments and no /var/lib/ld.config
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[20:43:03] <flyingparchment> it says "80386", nothing else, then exits?
[20:43:21] <tek-ops> doesn't exist
[20:43:31] <flyingparchment> ?!
[20:43:36] <tek-ops> what's the proper format of /var/lib/ld.config
[20:43:43] <flyingparchment> it's not meant to exist until you create it
[20:43:48] <flyingparchment> it's a binary file, you edit it with crle
[20:43:55] <tek-ops> oooh
[20:43:58] <flyingparchment> crle = configure run-time linker environment
[20:44:11] <tek-ops> ahh
[20:44:19] <tek-ops> so I want -64 to include 64 bit files, then
[20:44:56] <flyingparchment> if you're running a 64-bit binary, you need to change the 64-bit link path, so use -64
[20:45:03] <flyingparchment> but remember the default is to build 32-bit binaries on solaris
[20:45:12] <tek-ops> oh, why is that?
[20:45:21] <Sporq> nwadm
[20:45:23] <Sporq> amd rather
[20:45:26] <flyingparchment> because hardly any applications actually need 64-bit support
[20:45:27] <Sporq> makes me angry
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[20:45:48] <flyingparchment> and on sparc (which supported 64-bit first) 64-bit applications were nearly always slower except for a small subset of programs
[20:46:50] <e^ipi> there's an argument that the larger number of registers in amd64 offsets the larger addresses, and it's quantifiable, but only marginally so
[20:47:15] <e^ipi> or bignum support, in which case you might see some speedup
[20:47:18] <flyingparchment> yeah, i've heard that, but i'm dubious how much difference it really makes
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[20:52:43] <e^ipi> depending on the numerical calculation workload it can be quite significant
[20:52:53] <tek-ops> does OpenSolaris support Imlib?
[20:53:03] <e^ipi> but as for the register increase, IIRC it was pretty low... 8-10% or so
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[21:02:14] <flyingparchment> (*) Labels Field (folksonomy)
[21:02:18] <flyingparchment> suddenly, i want to not use this software
[21:04:22] <e^ipi> what software?
[21:05:01] <flyingparchment> jira labels plugin
[21:05:06] <flyingparchment> it's actually quite neat if you ignore the buzzwords
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[21:39:03] <FBdev> ga4lt-mordant no no problem I had aprently an open session in another box, thank you
[21:39:35] <g4lt-mordant> okay
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[21:54:19] <l1s> damn, winscp is a damn great windows ftp application
[21:55:53] <|UltraSPARC|> sounds lovely
[21:56:45] <Triskelios> uh, my experiences with winscp have been mostly negative; the performance is terrible - the bottleneck on transfers is usually your CPU speed
[21:57:19] * g4lt-mordant usually prefers pscp
[21:57:56] <l1s> hm, well i use filezilla for normal, but i wanted to try other ones, and winscp has some cool features as well as a good user interface
[21:59:17] <l1s> thought the *.foo downloading is one of the best features i ever seen, think about the x11 modular download tree
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[22:05:20] <paulf> Hello
[22:05:28] <l1s> hi
[22:07:55] <paulf> does anybody else find the latest wave of mouse-over ads extremely annoying?
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[22:08:14] <l1s> uhm?!?
[22:08:20] <g4lt-mordant> s/the latest wave of//
[22:08:39] <g4lt-mordant> they're ALL annoying
[22:08:44] <paulf> it seems like they're becoming more and more prevelant
[22:09:21] <paulf> you can't get to the links you're interested in, because the ads pop up in the way
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[22:09:30] <e^ipi> turn off javascript
[22:09:41] <l1s> dont visit such sites
[22:10:18] <paulf> sadly, turning off JS cripples lots of sites :/
[22:10:33] <g4lt-mordant> or if you do visit such sites, tell them "it ws nice doing business with you, but since I can't click on the link I need, I'll spend my money elsewhere, TYVM.  HAND"
[22:12:00] <l1s> but i found it more annoying to see that experts-exchange.com made her service commercial
[22:12:51] <tek-ops> hahaha
[22:13:01] <tek-ops> i took me a minute to realized HAND was have a nice day
[22:13:04] <tek-ops> hrmmm
[22:13:39] <g4lt-mordant> dude, you fail at interwub
[22:13:57] <tek-ops> hahaha
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[22:28:19] <nachox> opensolaris has a new macot? :) what's with the flying pig?
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[22:37:36] <g4lt-mordant> aroo?
[22:38:36] * g4lt-mordant doesn't see one....
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[22:39:00] <g4lt-mordant> nachox, you been hitting the booze a bit harder than usual? ;P
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[22:40:41] <nachox> g4lt-mordant, well... i switched brands and the current one is stronger yes, but how is that relevant? :P
[22:41:01] <nachox> g4lt-mordant, http://blogs.gnome.org/gman/2007/10/15/opensolaris-mascot/
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[22:43:20] <paulf> I'm getting tired of "cute" open source project logos
[22:43:59] <kjetilho> yeah.  has the trademark lapsed on the swastika yet?
[22:44:37] <paulf> I wouldn't go that far :)
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[22:45:12] <paulf> but something tasetful and without  a cartoon animal of some kind
[22:50:48] <g4lt-mordant> either that or, take the BSD daemon and go full on and get a good Boschesque rendering
[22:51:32] <g4lt-mordant> "this ain't kids stuff, it WILL hurt you if you mess it up"
[22:52:14] <vmlemon> When did they trademark the swastika? ;)
[22:53:01] <g4lt-mordant> I think a religious order in singapore has it trademarked
[22:53:20] <|UltraSPARC|> that makes sense, it's a very important symbol in the east
[22:53:33] <|UltraSPARC|> you see it on rocks in hong kong, actually
[22:53:37] <g4lt-mordant> there's a big old religious building there on coffin street that's prectically plastered with them
[22:57:12] <vmlemon> Interesting, a US tool maker/seller managed to TM it
[22:57:23] <|UltraSPARC|> lol
[22:59:24] <vmlemon> Probably expired a long time ago, that said
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[23:07:08] <nachox> i too like the bsd daemon, i think it is the coolest mascot of any os, much better than that fat idiot looking penguin or that fish :)
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[23:09:16] <vmlemon> What about Hexley or the shiny FreeBSD ball thing?
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[23:10:30] <nachox> who?
[23:10:31] <nachox> :)
[23:10:49] <vmlemon> Darwin mascot
[23:11:05] <nachox> the firefly?
[23:11:10] <g4lt-mordant> I've got a good one, chthulhu!  "go ahead and fuck up, I dare you"
[23:11:12] <nachox> it's cool'ish
[23:11:53] <vmlemon> Hmm, Hexley is a platypus
[23:12:59] * nachox googles
[23:14:32] <vmlemon> As for the FreeBSD shiny, red ball with horns, I have no idea what it's supposed to be
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[23:16:08] <nachox> the head of the daemon
[23:16:28] <vmlemon> Aah
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[23:22:15] <nachox> i'd stick with just the opensolaris in orange and blue, no mascot
[23:22:55] <g4lt-mordant> yeah, except the colors should be more sinister, like toxic yellow and biohazard red ;P
[23:23:12] <nachox> plus a pig is fat, just what solaris needed right after getting rid of the slowaris motto
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[23:27:57] <vmlemon> A solar flare/stylized sun? Or are they taken?
[23:29:19] <|UltraSPARC|> the gayification of unix
[23:29:57] <|UltraSPARC|> it should be bill joy pissing in public
[23:30:13] <kjetilho> a Sun with a huge zipper!  halfway pulled down!
[23:30:24] <kjetilho> no privates visible, of course
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[23:31:28] <vmlemon> A big ball of yellow molten rock?
[23:31:31] <g4lt-mordant> I'm thinking something from that guy who doe sKMFDM cover art
[23:33:59] <vmlemon> With a gaping hole in it, to suggest openness, of course
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[23:50:48] <tek-ops> uh oh
[23:51:14] <tek-ops> I screwed up ps
[23:51:15] <tek-ops> http://pastebin.ca/736855
[23:51:22] <tek-ops> and likely a lot more
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[23:55:12] <tek-ops> I removed /var/ld/ld.config
[23:55:24] <tek-ops> and re-ran crle, but it's still not working
[23:56:06] <nachox> ls works?
[23:56:15] <nachox> just wondering
[23:56:37] *** |UltraSPARC| is now known as Blackadder
[23:58:23] <tek-ops> yes
[23:58:26] * Teltariat thinks g4lt-mordant's idea of using Cthulthu as a mascot is actually quite an excellent idea
[23:58:56] <e^ipi> heh
[23:59:41] <nachox> a giant squid?
[23:59:59] <Teltariat> Certainly.  You screw up, and its TENTACLE RAPE for you.





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