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[00:20:54] <brad_> How can I connect to a printer on a windows machine?
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[00:21:13] <brad_> Were on the same network but I'm not allowed to touch the windows computer
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[00:27:28] <stevel> unplug the printer and plug it into your solaris box
[00:27:41] * stevel is as helpful as ever
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[00:44:40] <Mdx4> :)
[00:45:36] <Mdx4> anyone with experiences with FCIP ?
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[01:05:34] <Triskelios> bradley: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/printing/faq/sol2win.htm
[01:05:48] <Teltariat> <3 CSW
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[01:30:54] <myrkraverk> is the solaris cluster API based on some standard? or is it entirely solaris specific?
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[01:37:22] <br> Hello guys
[01:37:48] <br> Can anyone help me set up X?
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[01:38:50] <br> Hello
[01:40:14] <SYS64738> is it possible to copy a zone between two identical solaris servers ?
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[01:41:01] <SYS64738> good mornig Tempt
[01:41:06] <SYS64738> n
[01:42:00] <Tempt> Good morning.
[01:44:02] <br> Does anyone know the benefits of having to have a path to execute a command?
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[01:48:47] <SYS64738> good night
[01:49:05] <br> Anything I did?
[01:49:54] <IvanR_> SYS64738: Yes, as long they're at the same revision/patch levels, with the zoneadm attach/detach commands.
[01:50:33] <Teltariat> br: as a regular user, do what you like.  Set a profile or rc file for your shell, and set all your PATHs in it.  Its your machine, do whatever you want
[01:50:50] <br> Seriously though, what are the benefits of /opt/csw/bin/links insteads of just links
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[01:51:54] <Teltariat> What do you mwan "what are the benefits"?  Its the same thing.... the main difference is that you may have several different "links" from different sources, so maybe for example the SunFreeWare version may live at /usr/sfw, and the CSW version may be at /opt/csw
[01:52:09] <Teltariat> Use path precedence in $PATH to decide which you'd rather use first, I guess.....
[01:52:17] <br> Oh,ok
[01:52:30] <br> I knew there was a reason.
[01:52:39] <sommerfeld> br: have you used any unix system other than linux before solaris?
[01:52:51] <sommerfeld> (just curious)
[01:53:02] <br> sommerfeld, I dabbled in openBSD for awhile
[01:53:17] <Teltariat> Scratch that Sunfreeware part, the stuff in /usr/sfw could be just plain Sun stuff
[01:53:18] <br> Just enough to set up Gnome though
[01:54:03] <sommerfeld> the stuff in /usr/sfw is core solaris
[01:54:24] <Teltariat> sommerfeld: thanks, I figured that
[01:54:31] <SYS64738> IvanR_, zoneadm detach and clone ?
[01:54:40] <Teltariat> The correlation btwn SFW and SunFreeWare was just too strong in my mind. :)
[01:55:07] <Tempt> hmmm
[01:55:09] <Tempt> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Sun-Fire-4800-6x1-2Ghz-UltraSparc-III-CPUs-12GB-RAM_W0QQitemZ140165893099QQihZ004QQcategoryZ11216QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[01:55:14] <Tempt> yummeh!
[01:55:46] <br> How much?
[01:55:59] <Tempt> Too much, but it'll get relisted down when it gets no bids. They always do.
[01:56:00] <Teltariat> 9.5K AU
[01:56:15] <sommerfeld> Teltariat: the choice of name was ..poor
[01:56:26] <Teltariat> I suppose
[01:56:59] <SYS64738> ok re-goodnight
[01:57:21] <IvanR_> SYS64738: In the zoneadm manpage, there's "detach" and "attach" subcommands.
[01:58:15] <sommerfeld> Tempt: hmm.  kinda bizarre that it's 6 cpus and not 8 (looks like 2 uniboards, 1 filler)
[01:59:57] <Tempt> You can have uniboards not completely populated.
[02:00:36] <Teltariat> So the snv_74 DVD has the same problem as 73 and 72, namely that after loading miniroot and proceeding to setup the isntallation environment, it fails to see the DVD drive and thus poots out with "Failed to find installation media"
[02:01:05] <Teltariat> So I'm trying to use lofiadm and see how its possible to install snv_74 on its own ZFS dataset in a running snv_69 system.
[02:01:14] <Teltariat> Pointers? Suggestions? Derisive laughter?
[02:01:24] <l1s> install 70 or 71 and update to 74
[02:01:47] <Teltariat> l1s: I'm trying to use what I have now
[02:01:49] <l1s> on 74 the problem remains, at least thats what i read on the lists
[02:02:18] <Teltariat> Is it possible to run the installation from the iso file with lofiadm, as I'm attempting to do?  Or is it just stupid?
[02:02:21] <l1s> you could also try to patch one file with an hexeditor
[02:02:31] <l1s> if you want to stay with what you have
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[02:02:40] <paulf> Howdy
[02:02:46] <Teltariat> heh, l1s.
[02:02:50] <l1s> search for the failure you written above, there is a tutorial on the solaris lists about that problem
[02:02:51] <Teltariat> Greets
[02:03:08] <paulf> Ya know, it's odd that I said "howdy."  I never say that in real life.
[02:03:48] <Teltariat> Its also odd that I respod "Greets", but never say that in real life either.
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[02:04:28] <paulf> Hmmm
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[02:05:26] <paulf> One could probably postulate that that says something about us assuming a persona when we lack the context of the physical world, but that would be too complicated to think about :)
[02:05:45] <Teltariat> paulf: Does this look like Second Life to you? :P
[02:05:57] <br> I've never played that game
[02:05:58] <paulf> Thank goodness no :)
[02:06:15] <br> It sounds degenerate
[02:06:19] <paulf> I've never played it, but otherwise sensible people seem obsessed with it
[02:06:56] <paulf> A buddy of mine has gone back to school to study library information science, and they're apparently obsessed with Second Life
[02:07:24] <Doc> i have enough trouble keeping up with my first life - wtf would i want a second one?
[02:07:28] <br> What does library information science entail?
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[02:07:57] <paulf> br: I honestly couldn't tell you :)
[02:08:11] <Teltariat> And is it even worth the education? (I mean, how much does a library science expert make these days?)
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[02:08:36] <paulf> I think it's a fancy name for librarian school
[02:08:39] <Teltariat> Anywho, does anyone know how I could get at the filesystem information being held inside a compressed Solaris miniroot?
[02:09:01] <br> once you get him set up I need to set up X
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[02:09:11] <Teltariat> paulf: I figured the only thing you could become after studying that was a librarian, but wasn't entirely sure.
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[02:09:35] <paulf> Tel: he already has a worthless history degree, so this has to be an improvement over that ;)
[02:09:46] <Teltariat> paulf: Oh dear.
[02:09:58] <br> Is a degree in literature worthless?
[02:10:08] <Teltariat> I think it depends on what you get out of it
[02:10:14] <elektronkind> no, if you want to be a newspaper book reviewer
[02:10:43] <Teltariat> "THIS BUK SUCKED!!!111oneone"
[02:10:46] <paulf> sadly, from an economic standpoint, it probably is
[02:10:46] <br> lol
[02:11:18] <br> I kinda wanna write a book on internet culture
[02:11:39] <paulf> is it just me, or does planet.opensolaris.org keep coming up with the same postings repeatedly?
[02:11:55] <Teltariat> br: What do you mean "internet culture"?
[02:11:59] <Teltariat> Theres no such thing
[02:12:14] <br> That's true, it's hard to define
[02:12:33] <paulf> You could put it in quotes in the title and debunk the existence of such a thing
[02:12:38] <Teltariat> Every community on Earth does things its own way, has its own culture, and you'll find the exact same system on the Internet.
[02:12:53] <paulf> ah ha, that's something an LIS major would do
[02:13:05] <paulf> figure out how to quote the title of a book that is already in quotes
[02:13:18] <Teltariat> Why the debunk the exist of something that whose nonexistence no one disputes? :p
[02:13:23] <Teltariat> s/the//
[02:13:38] <br> There is certain activities that only the internet "experienced" use
[02:13:40] <paulf> Tel: has futility ever stopped the publishing of a book before? :)
[02:13:50] <Teltariat> paul, good point.
[02:13:55] <br> Noone I know has used IRC
[02:14:02] <Teltariat> br: internet experienced. oh dear.
[02:14:22] <br> I was gonna use savvy but it sounded egoist
[02:14:36] <br> www.textfiles.org
[02:14:42] <br> is what I'm aiming at
[02:14:43] <paulf> "Selecting a Dummies Book for Dummies"
[02:14:43] <Teltariat> Some people would debate that because you never used Gopher, or Archie, you've never experienced TRUE INTERNET.
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[02:15:19] <Teltariat> There are even others who would say that if you've never seen a BBS before, then you don't belong online.
[02:15:20] <paulf> uucp was the one true internet, and I missed it!
[02:15:24] <br> The internet is the only real wild west in my opinion
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[02:15:34] <Teltariat> Thats going to change soon.
[02:15:48] <br> Teltariat, There is a documentary on BBS culture already :)
[02:16:02] <br> Teltariat, Which is why I want to preserve it
[02:17:30] <Teltariat> What would be awesome is if we had a truly free method of communication that had absolutely no potential to be controlled by any one entity.  Like for example, some kind of "ethercard" thats able to connect everyone together using some sort of alter-dimensional ether.... no matter where you are, you could connect.  Uh oh, I'm going sci-fi.
[02:17:52] <l1s> you have that ability
[02:17:56] <br> that would be cool
[02:18:11] <l1s> since 1960
[02:18:17] <br> drugs?
[02:18:18] <Teltariat> With laws and "governing bodies" control radio waves, and corporate entities controlling backbones and lines, you'll never really get a truly "free" Internet.
[02:18:41] <l1s> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_band_radio
[02:19:00] <Teltariat> l1s: whats the bandwidth on that?  It'll enable you,but there are limits
[02:19:08] <br> Teltariat, You could always use different protocols
[02:19:28] <br> In theory one could "fork" the internet
[02:19:52] <Teltariat> Protocol has nothing to do with it if you can't simply "push" the same amount of data in a timely fashion that you push around the Net today, because that average amount of data is only set to rapidly grow as time bears on
[02:19:57] <kjetilho> interesting that the authorities in Burma had to shut down Internet and mobile phones altogether to control their citizens
[02:20:00] <Teltariat> Dunno if what I said made any sense......
[02:20:05] <l1s> hm, thought the bandwith is for one channel uncompressed about 9600kbps
[02:20:09] <l1s> but 1.
[02:20:15] <Teltariat> kjetilho: the fact that they _can_ shut it down is the issue
[02:20:16] <l1s> you could multilink the channels
[02:20:22] <kjetilho> Teltariat: exactly
[02:20:25] <l1s> 2. you could compress
[02:21:09] <kjetilho> l1s: still not viable for anything but emergency use
[02:21:11] <l1s> tere are gadgets that do such tasks but they are expensive (about 10000$)
[02:21:28] <l1s> if you mean...
[02:21:37] <br> One laptop per child laptops have their own little mesh networks
[02:21:48] <br> Would that be possible on a large scale?
[02:21:57] <kjetilho> satellite phone systems are at least not (necessarily) controllable by your own government
[02:21:58] <l1s> citizan band?
[02:22:03] <Teltariat> br: Large scale mesh network should be what we work towards
[02:22:03] <Teltariat> but
[02:22:10] <l1s> you dont know cb radio?!?
[02:22:36] <Teltariat> how would you cross the ocean?  If you could set up a series of ocean-link end points to propagate the mesh accross the great distance, it might do it, but still.....
[02:22:50] <paulf> the beauty of IP is that it doesn't care who owns the infrastructure, and it can ride over nearly anything
[02:22:58] <l1s> yes for shure is it possible, but you need very strong transmitters for such tasks
[02:23:01] <l1s> +
[02:23:11] <br> l1s, I'm interested but building the radio seems demotivating
[02:23:12] <l1s> you can hook up to transmition services...
[02:23:13] <kjetilho> l1s: CB is a US phenomenon.  I only know it from movies like Convoy :)
[02:23:20] <Teltariat> lets get an addressing scheme that gives us all the addresses we ever wanted....whether it be IPv6 or something, sheesh
[02:23:31] <paulf> so businesses and governments can control bandwidth, but can't ultimately control connectivity
[02:23:48] <l1s> hm
[02:24:23] <Teltariat> If we could return to the direction that Alan Kay was taking computing, we might have been able to do all that we do today on the 9600kbps that CB radio offers us, perhaps.
[02:24:50] <kjetilho> ITYM Doug Engelbart?
[02:25:00] <l1s> well for that task you would only need a few of the 9600kbps, werent there security holes that alowed to send data over sub gsm channels?
[02:25:00] <br> mouse guy?
[02:25:10] <Teltariat> kjetiho: Engelbart ftw
[02:25:14] <kjetilho> he "cheated" by using analog transmission of video
[02:25:15] <Teltariat> But I mean Alan Kay
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[02:25:30] <br> ..I though Engelbart invented the mouse?
[02:25:31] <Teltariat> Engelbart was also definitely an excellent pioneer
[02:25:35] <Teltariat> his stuff was amazing
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[02:25:38] <Teltariat> br, yep
[02:25:42] <Teltariat> He did more though
[02:25:43] <l1s> thought you could hook some wireless internet cards and transmit adresses by sending the calling number in a wrong way
[02:26:03] <l1s> so that the number is actually the adress
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[02:26:19] <l1s> if you go online you send it, if you go offline you send it again... or so...
[02:26:30] <Teltariat> Just try to imagine how things would have been if people like Engelbart and Kay had _real_ backing, and were able to make their ideas into real products?
[02:26:37] <l1s> you would only need one big server that could handle more connections at the same time
[02:26:50] <kjetilho> add Ted Nelson to that list
[02:26:51] <l1s> what did they invented?
[02:27:00] <l1s> what have
[02:27:08] <br> Did they all work at Xerox Parc?
[02:27:26] <Teltariat> l1s: Engelbart had truly novel computing ideas for his time; some of his lesser inventions were the precursors of stuff we use today
[02:27:32] <Teltariat> the mouse being the most widespread of them
[02:27:45] <Teltariat> I'm not sure whether or not he worked at Xerox
[02:27:52] <Teltariat> He has a research video on videos.google
[02:27:55] <Teltariat> You can search for it
[02:28:03] <br> ok
[02:28:32] <l1s> ah xerox, i knew i heard that name sometime
[02:29:00] <l1s> someday
[02:29:16] <kjetilho> Ted Nelson invented hypertext, and a very ingenious editing system called Xanadu.  it deals with the evolvement of text
[02:29:33] <kjetilho> and the branching and modification of texts in other texts
[02:29:41] <Teltariat> http://tinyurl.com/yud2el
[02:29:45] <kjetilho> it's utterly perplexing that we can *lose* work in this day and age
[02:29:55] <br> Not really
[02:30:03] <kjetilho> I mean, if we simply record our keypresses, we'd never fill a gigabyte in our lifetime
[02:30:04] <Teltariat> That TinyURL links to Engelbarts "big demo" vid
[02:30:10] <br> We're bombarded with more idea's so we filter more
[02:30:29] <Teltariat> Its more than keypresses now
[02:31:08] <kjetilho> keyboard or mouse, it makes no material difference
[02:31:22] <Teltariat> The human experience entails visual, aural, (that work for feeling [I'm going stupid]), all 5 senses.  The more and more we can capture that, the more and more space we'd need
[02:31:27] <kjetilho> you don't include video and audio in your documents, do you?
[02:31:30] <Teltariat> s/work/word/
[02:31:42] <Teltariat> We may in the future
[02:31:51] <Teltariat> We are capturing more and more of what we "experience"
[02:32:00] <Teltariat> It isn't blue-sky thinking, its just the way things are going
[02:32:01] <kjetilho> we don't today
[02:32:25] <kjetilho> and still we manage to documents or revisions of documents
[02:32:30] <kjetilho> +lose
[02:32:31] <paulf> I don't know...so much of what is captured is basically worthless
[02:32:34] <br> Do you think that we will ever go back to command line editing?
[02:32:44] <kjetilho> br: ehhh
[02:32:51] <kjetilho> I never left it
[02:32:53] <paulf> how often do you see teenagers in a restaurant taking stupid pictures of each other
[02:32:54] <Teltariat> paulf: That may be true, but it all has meaning for somebody
[02:32:57] <br> Emacs seems so more advanced then full-featured clients
[02:33:08] <paulf> that nobody will ever look at after 10 minutes
[02:33:15] <Teltariat> paulf: truth, but when that teenager is 60, and he looks at his pictures, it means more than you can ever know
[02:33:43] <paulf> I can't imagine them ever keeping them
[02:34:03] <Teltariat> And there are the small musings of someone that could have had the potential to _become_ something truly earth-shattering.  But because they were never captured, no one else was able to see them and develop on them
[02:34:24] <paulf> one could argue that is a storage and indexing problem, but a lot of stuff just isn't sufficiently valuable to store long term
[02:34:28] <Teltariat> Theres a strong chance that out of all of Gehry's currently standing buildings, his most beautful work was never built.  Because it never saw the light of day.
[02:34:33] <br> Teltariat, How would you find them with billions of hours of footage?
[02:34:56] <br> You couldn't build an algorith to find truly worthy ideas
[02:35:00] <Teltariat> br: back in the day, we did not have the ability to do search Google does now.  I'm sure a way will be worked out
[02:35:26] <kjetilho> Microsoft's work in photos is very impressive
[02:35:38] <Teltariat> br: true, but there are the concepts of "labelling", or "flagging".  You could of flagged something as "interesting idea".   Someone else may connect to your library and want to look through all stuff marked as "interesting idea"
[02:35:45] <Teltariat> kjetilho: I have to agree!
[02:35:53] <br> like del.icio.us for video?
[02:35:56] <br> seems plausible
[02:36:09] <paulf> maybe some stuff isn't made because it's lost, but I think that has less to do with storing media than it does with taking the time to capture thoughts and ideas
[02:36:51] <Teltariat> Well if we could make the effort required less and less
[02:37:04] <Teltariat> Until it can cross some threshold of "just natural"
[02:37:22] <Teltariat> it would do wonders for education, science and art
[02:37:22] <paulf> many good ideas can't be easily captured in a photo or a movie, because they're too abstract or too undefined
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[02:37:40] <br> "I think therefore I am"
[02:37:54] <paulf> one could argue that information overload is causing the loss of as much stuff as the inability to store it
[02:38:09] <Teltariat> true.  I figure the recent work by (MIT, was it?) on the neural-machine interface might be getting us centimer-by-centimer in that direction
[02:38:15] <paulf> because nobody has time to think about anything for any sufficient length of time
[02:38:30] <br> Truly, from a standpoint of a student I spend more time filtering information then learning it
[02:38:44] <Teltariat> paulf: different types of people have been shown to be able to handle different amounts if information with varying efficiency
[02:38:51] <Teltariat> br: agreed
[02:39:01] <paulf> if people had time, they could take those proto-ideas and develop them into something that could be captured more readily
[02:39:47] <Teltariat> There are people who have no really awesome ideas of their own, but do have talent.  If they found someone else's interesting idea, they'd take it and run with it.  That might've been the premise behind Linux's development, though that might not have been such a good example
[02:40:02] <br> ouch
[02:40:21] <Teltariat> not meant as an insult
[02:40:25] <br> Linux is a good example of the Bizaar method though
[02:40:38] <Teltariat> have to run, be back later
[02:40:39] <kjetilho> we have an awful lot of potential locked up in our 7 billion human beings.  a lot of effort is wasted due to lack of cooperation
[02:40:40] * Teltariat &
[02:40:42] <br> From a classical standpoint it should of failed
[02:40:51] <paulf> latert
[02:40:52] <Teltariat> kjetilho wins the prize for that last comment
[02:40:55] <paulf> er, later
[02:40:58] <br> later
[02:41:06] <br> God bless,
[02:41:13] <Teltariat> I'll be back in a moment
[02:41:21] <br> ok
[02:41:34] <paulf> our dialog was so interesting, he can't stay away :)
[02:41:59] * kjetilho curses his AIX server which won't reconfigure its network
[02:43:01] * paulf does too
[02:43:26] <Tempt> kjetilho: Haha....
[02:43:46] <br> Ever use IRIX?
[02:43:46] <Tempt> kjetilho: Don't forget there's two ways of managing network config - files vs odb
[02:44:10] <br> I was thinking of buying a silicon graphics computer to try it
[02:44:29] <kjetilho> Tempt: I'm an AIX neophyte, so I try to keep it simple, ie. smitty.
[02:44:52] <kjetilho> br: there's nothing much special about IRIX, don't bother
[02:44:58] <br> ok
[02:45:11] <br> Solaris is really the dominating Unix isn't it?
[02:45:22] <kjetilho> but the compiler is nice -- it has helped me catch many bugs which GCC and Sun Studio are mum about
[02:45:41] <br> HP-UX died with alpha I think
[02:45:59] <paulf> I think it's really Solaris and Linux at this point
[02:46:00] <kjetilho> br: HP-UX never did run on Alpha...
[02:46:07] <br> ... my bad
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[02:46:30] <kjetilho> but the absorption of DEC's Tru64 into HP was detrimental, I guess
[02:46:31] <br> Was SCO UnixWare worth considering
[02:46:48] <br> I mean besides the bad publicity did it bring anything to the table
[02:46:54] <br> ?
[02:47:22] <paulf> I haven't heard anybody talk about UnixWare for a really long time
[02:47:31] <kjetilho> it was a commercially supported Unix which ran on commodity hardware
[02:47:35] <br> paulf, SCO is bankrupt
[02:48:04] <paulf> yeah, but that wasn't talking about UnixWare :)
[02:48:10] <br> lol
[02:48:11] <br> ok
[02:48:46] <paulf> it seems like all they were doing for a long time was licensing IP that wasn't really theirs
[02:48:51] <br> Is Mac OS X officially Unix?
[02:49:00] <Tempt> I can assure you that HP-UX is certainly still rolling out.
[02:49:03] <br> paulf, sabre rattling
[02:49:08] <kjetilho> Tempt: hrm, it doesn't respond to BREAK on the serial console, and boot hangs on NIS not responding.  any tricks up your sleeve?
[02:49:13] <Tempt> It might not be all that popular but still keeps happening.
[02:49:41] <Tempt> kjetilho: Urk, not in an AIX friendly mood today. Ask delewis when he surfaces.
[02:49:46] <kjetilho> :-)
[02:50:16] <paulf> br: I think it was recently officially granted UNIX status
[02:50:36] <paulf> I guess I don't even think about it as unix most of the time
[02:51:14] <Tempt> MacOS made UNIX accreditation, yes.
[02:51:15] <kjetilho> BSD has the right to call itself UNIX even if it doesn't fulfill the standards.  it's an old agreement
[02:51:58] <br> I heard that BSD would be where linux is now without the lawsuit
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[02:52:09] <paulf> maybe I'm out in left field here, but it seems like MacOS and Solaris may have something going on...ZFS, DTrace, etc.
[02:52:24] <br> Sun and Apple have a relationship
[02:52:31] <Tempt> Ha.
[02:52:36] <Tempt> Can't be a very good relationship.
[02:52:38] <br> Theres been rumors about one buying the other forever
[02:52:47] <Tempt> Sun certainly doesn't seem to get anything out of the deal.
[02:53:05] <Teltariat> agreed. [back]
[02:53:20] <Tempt> anyway, 0xc0ffee time
[02:53:21] <kjetilho> Steve Jobs was pissed off that Jonathan scooped the ZFS deal
[02:53:30] <paulf> at least not that we're seeing
[02:53:53] <Teltariat> ljet: the ZFS deal?  Elaborate?
[02:54:03] <paulf> but, that's part of the price of going open source
[02:54:05] <Teltariat> Oh nevermind
[02:54:13] <kjetilho> Jonathan announced on his blog that MacOS X would use ZFS
[02:54:24] <kjetilho> no one preempts news like that.
[02:54:35] <kjetilho> such news should come directly from his Steveness
[02:54:38] <Teltariat> That guy does whatever he can to make Sun look good
[02:54:50] <br> For a company founded by hippies Apple is pretty propiertary
[02:54:59] <Teltariat> like his strange idea that the stock ticker should be renamed to JAVA.          In friggin' 2007.
[02:55:15] <kjetilho> seems to work nicely to me
[02:55:15] <Teltariat> A hippy is only a hippy until he gets rich.
[02:55:19] <kjetilho> why not?
[02:55:20] <Teltariat> After that, its fuck all
[02:55:21] <br> He has charisma though
[02:55:28] <br> *Jonathan
[02:55:48] <Teltariat> SUNW makes more sense for Sun than JAVA.  I mean, hello?
[02:55:51] <br> I have no idea who his predecessors were so I assume he's more popular
[02:56:10] <kjetilho> Teltariat: it's free advertising
[02:56:15] <br> I dunno
[02:56:22] <Teltariat> Still doesn't make sense.  Sun is more than simply Java.
[02:56:29] <br> Everyone knows about Java but noone knows what sun does
[02:56:50] <Teltariat> I personally feel that if they were to push and advertise their hardware offerings more aggressively, perhaps the way MS has been doing with Vista and the Zune, they'd make more headway.
[02:56:53] <Teltariat> But thats just me.
[02:57:01] <br> Zune is a bad example
[02:57:14] <Teltariat> It was pushed heavy at colleges, for example
[02:57:23] <paulf> Sun's newest hardware looks like
[02:57:26] <Teltariat> There was a Microsoft release party at the university I went to on its release date
[02:57:27] <paulf> er, looks nice
[02:57:28] <kjetilho> Teltariat: and bombed
[02:57:34] <Teltariat> Yes, it did bomb
[02:57:37] <Teltariat> But they got the word out
[02:57:43] <br> Is Sun going with Sparc or x86?
[02:57:44] <Teltariat> More so than Sun usually does for its stuff
[02:57:58] <br> First they sell opterons then develop Niagra...
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[02:58:31] <Teltariat> The kicker was when they started advertising that they offer MS Server 2003 on their machines.
[02:58:32] <sommerfeld> br: sun is doing all of the above
[02:58:50] <sommerfeld> sparc, intel, and amd cpus
[02:58:52] <elektronkind> br: it doesn't ever have to be one or the other
[02:59:12] <br> true
[02:59:31] <elektronkind> because there's no singular arch that's fitting for every job imaginable
[02:59:58] <br> That's getting above my head
[03:00:27] <Teltariat> elektronkind: in that case, they should start doing that for software.  Next to JAva, they should start offering Smalltalk, Erlang, Malbolge, Brainfuck, Scala, Oz, Squeak, etc. :p
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[03:00:31] <br> Any particular reason other then Intel+Microsoft that x86 is dominant
[03:00:36] <br> ?
[03:01:02] <Teltariat> Too many factors.
[03:01:16] <Teltariat> One of which was that x86 was laissez-faire when it came to 3rd party manufactureres
[03:01:23] <Teltariat> this drove down the price and increased the availability
[03:01:29] <Teltariat> You could only get Apple machines from Apple
[03:01:36] <Teltariat> no buying parts and building one yourself
[03:01:37] <Teltariat> for example.
[03:01:54] <br> Didn't motorola back ppc though too?
[03:02:11] <br> That should of given them a head start in mobile phones
[03:02:20] <paulf> open hardware has been a mixed blessing...it's driven down cost, but I think it's driven down reliability too
[03:02:48] <br> I'm waiting for someone to building sparc in their house
[03:02:48] <Teltariat> paulf: truth.  But its always gain-some, lose-some
[03:02:51] <Teltariat> You never win it all
[03:02:52] <br> that would be amazing
[03:03:30] <Teltariat> Aren't there already whtebox ULTRASparcs?  I'm pretty sure I happened accross some on Ebay.
[03:03:33] <paulf> tel: definitely
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[03:04:18] <br> Does anything besides netbsd and solaris run on sparc though?
[03:04:29] <br> besides the odd linux
[03:04:31] <elektronkind> linux does.
[03:04:36] <kjetilho> Hyundai, Tatung, Axil -- they all made SPARC clones in the SPARCserver 20 and Ultra 1 era
[03:05:05] <elektronkind> freebsd, openbsd, openstep (on really old sparcs)
[03:05:53] <br> I'm thinking of buying a sparc machine just for learning
[03:06:23] <Teltariat> There are more interesting OSes coming out.  Has anyone here been playing with things like Plan 9, QNX?  I mentioned these before, but no one thought anything of them.
[03:06:31] <br> but I don't know exactly how they compare with x86, I mean 500mhz is equivalent to what in intel?
[03:06:59] <br> I'm interested in HaikuOS
[03:07:00] <elektronkind> that's not a true comparator
[03:07:12] <br> That could be because i missed the beos boat though :(
[03:07:22] <Teltariat> It always irked me how modern multi-Ghz machines don't "feel" as fast as old P3s.
[03:07:33] <Teltariat> br: I missed it to. :( Hug?
[03:07:36] <Teltariat> lol.
[03:07:39] * br gives hug
[03:07:40] <br> lol
[03:07:52] <paulf> I haven't done anything with Spacs for many years, but they behaved a lot different than x86
[03:07:58] <kjetilho> Intel machines have always been skimping on memory bandwidth
[03:08:25] <paulf> way back when, I had a Sun IPX with a 70MHz processor or something like that at work
[03:08:40] <paulf> it was far slower than the x86 systems we had, but it never bogged down the way they would under load
[03:08:41] <Tempt> Teltariat: QNX is pretty good stuff.
[03:08:44] <Teltariat> Stupid question, but what architecture&chipset today offers the MOST memory bandwidth?
[03:08:57] <Teltariat> Tempt: I fell in love with QNX Neutrino x86 the first time I tried it
[03:09:04] <kjetilho> pretty sure it would be the POWER6
[03:09:26] <kjetilho> might be the Itanium2, though
[03:09:29] <sommerfeld> Teltariat: measured where?  single thread or multi-thread?
[03:09:30] <Tempt> Teltariat: Pretty good stuff, and QNX has recently opened some source and has free licenses, so jump on the bandwagon.
[03:09:38] <br> I thought the itanium bombed?
[03:09:55] <Teltariat> Tempt: my C makes grown men scream.  Otherwise I'd certainly love to help out.
[03:10:10] <paulf> it's still around...used mostly in special purpose systems though
[03:10:11] <Teltariat> sommerfeld: how about accross the board?
[03:10:14] <Tempt> SPARC machines do feel more responsive under load though. I know I've quite often got this machine sitting with idle CPU of zero, loadavg of 60 and it's still pleasant to use.
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[03:10:45] <Tempt> Teltariat: screw writing code for QNX, just play with it, build packages for it, roll out some nifty applications.
[03:11:10] <Tempt> and Itanium is driving HPUX and OpenVMS these days.
[03:11:17] <Tempt> (hardly a big win there...)
[03:11:37] <Teltariat> Tempt: certainly gonna give a shot
[03:11:56] <iron_angel> well, HPUX is alright, but OpenVMS? Powerful, but crufty in ways that Unix can only have nightmares about.
[03:12:01] <Teltariat> bbl again
[03:12:09] <paulf> SGI Altix systems use Itaniums, and mostly seem to run Linux
[03:12:14] <iron_angel> heh.
[03:12:43] <iron_angel> I wonder how long before they dump Itanic in favor of Opteron or POWER with custom glue?
[03:12:43] <Teltariat> I heard VMS was the stuff nightmares were made of.
[03:12:51] <iron_angel> it's not *that* bad, but...
[03:12:55] <kjetilho> iron_angel: OpenVMS can boast of clusters which have been running for more than a decade without downtime
[03:13:05] <paulf> both RedHat and SuSE's enterprise level offerings support Itanium
[03:13:10] <br> I hate to bag on Microsoft unduly but
[03:13:10] <iron_angel> I still have a shell account on an Alpha running VMS somewhere.
[03:13:17] <br> Is OpenVMS Windows ME?
[03:13:28] <iron_angel> kjetilho: hence why it's powerful.
[03:13:29] <Teltariat> no
[03:13:30] <Marv|LG> no openvms is better :)
[03:13:35] <kjetilho> br: are you a bot?
[03:13:36] <Tempt> There's a troll line ...
[03:13:39] <Tempt> oh, hang on
[03:13:39] <Tempt> [11:13] br [n=brad at 67 dot 158.9.89]
[03:13:47] <Tempt> The guy who got banned yesterday for trolling.
[03:13:48] <br> i'm not trolling
[03:13:53] <iron_angel> Of the Unices, only perhaps Solaris can claim that kind of major uptime.
[03:13:58] <br> I wasn't trolling here yesterday either
[03:14:03] <Tempt> Okay, the guy who got banned yesterday for being criminally stupid.
[03:14:12] <iron_angel> Though I've personally seen 4 years for Linux and 6 for FreeBSD.
[03:14:23] <br> Idealogical differences not stupidity
[03:14:52] <Teltariat> I still pretty much consider myself a neophyte in all areas.
[03:15:15] <Teltariat> Wish that weren't so much the case, but I can't boast of a long and illustrious history like you old guard.
[03:15:45] <br> Do people really make bots to troll #opensolaris?
[03:15:52] <br> I mean there are bigger channels
[03:15:58] <Teltariat> No, they test them out in #linux first
[03:16:16] <Tempt> #linux *is* a trollbot.
[03:16:25] <Tempt> drop over there, ask them a simple question and watch the 'helpful' replies.
[03:16:42] <kjetilho> to be fair, that's true of #solaris, too
[03:16:53] <Tempt> yeah
[03:16:54] <Teltariat> The same can happen in #openbsd
[03:17:04] <br> #openbsd seemed nice to me
[03:17:04] <Teltariat> Ask the wrong questions, be beheaded
[03:17:06] <Tempt> but #solaris doesn't follow up with CTCP VERSION followed by nmaps
[03:17:20] <kjetilho> heh
[03:18:22] * Teltariat &
[03:20:11] <br> I think that linux hates microsoft, microsoft hates everyone, solaris hates linux and OpenBSD eyes everyone with suspicion
[03:20:40] <dlg> well, everyone is out to get me
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[03:22:31] <br> what path do I need to do Xorg -configure?
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[03:23:11] <br> Hello stevel_
[03:23:29] <br> ,jafari
[03:23:32] <stevel_> having network issues, ugh
[03:23:34] <Tempt> It's more like this.
[03:24:09] <Tempt> Linux hates everything that isn't Linux; Microsoft hates anything that isn't Windows; Apple hates anything that isn't MacOS
[03:24:09] <paulf> I think it's safe to say that IRC is the rough saloon out in the wild west of the Internet
[03:24:19] <br> lol true
[03:24:29] <br> instead ob bullets +b's
[03:24:32] <Tempt> Solaris doesn't care as long as it works and isn't Linux or Windows
[03:25:08] <paulf> IRC is filled with a bunch of haters :)
[03:25:25] <br> IRC servers are actually powered by hate
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[03:25:34] <br> The sysadmins actually troll for power
[03:25:55] <paulf> channel ops troll for power
[03:26:50] <paulf> users troll for ops, and so it goes
[03:27:29] <br> almost everyone has trolled now and then
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[03:29:18] <Teltariat> Except me.  I wish peace and goodwill to every.  <puts on fake halo>
[03:29:25] <Teltariat> s/every/everyone/
[03:31:49] <br> You guys ever find yourself using internet slang in real life?
[03:31:49] <br> I've used leet and pwned and gotten strange looks
[03:31:49] <paulf> nerd :P
[03:31:49] * Teltariat gives br a strange look
[03:31:49] <br> lol
[03:31:49] <Teltariat> No one says "pwned" in real life.
[03:31:49] <br> facetiouslly
[03:31:50] <paulf> I'm not even sure how one would pronounce that :)
[03:31:51] <Teltariat> "pooned" ?
[03:31:51] <br> I pronounced it pawned
[03:31:51] <Teltariat> FAIL.
[03:31:51] <br> pooned sounds sexual
[03:32:00] <paulf> maybe that's why you got strange looks :)
[03:32:19] <br> I pronounced it pawned
[03:32:24] <iron_angel> I pronounce it as 'owned' with a p in front. Like powned.
[03:32:35] <br> that would elicit strange looks though too
[03:32:35] <sommerfeld> grep pwwn /kernel/drv/fp.conf
[03:32:46] <iron_angel> And I caught myself using it after other folks at work did.
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[03:33:57] <br> I like how the media trys to use some bizarre rare slang there
[03:33:59] * Teltariat begins work on a daemon that scrambles ZFS checksums, just for the purpose of making life more exciting. :P
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[03:34:19] <br> If someone has im'd nifoc that means there naked. Run!!!
[03:34:32] <br> Who uses that abrreviation? , noone
[03:34:53] <Teltariat> ....
[03:35:00] <Tempt> Watch "Pure Pwnage"
[03:35:05] <br> I've seen it
[03:35:09] <Tempt> It'll entertain you for at least a few minutes.
[03:35:14] <br> That's how my friends know pwned
[03:35:32] <br> have you heard the mac vs pc rap
[03:35:37] <br> that's my current funny
[03:35:40] <Teltariat> Is it that one where the guy runs around screaming "BANG, HEADSHOT!" ?
[03:35:47] <Teltariat> br: damn, you're late.
[03:35:51] <Tempt> IIRC "Boom, headshot ..."
[03:36:04] <Teltariat> Tempt: something like that, at least.
[03:36:28] <br> We are gonna leave a world legacy
[03:36:43] <Teltariat> oh, I was wrong br, nevermind
[03:36:50] <br> Instead of the kennedy assasination we will remember pure pwnage
[03:37:17] <br> *weird legacy
[03:38:10] <Teltariat> Oh no; tubgirl, goatse and derivatives definitly qualify as weird legacy.  (Thats if it doesn't get so decadent in the future that this stuff is seen as tame... :) )
[03:38:11] <br> Some kid will use emacs once and his parents will have him write an essay with it as punishment
[03:38:28] <br> I think it is already tame
[03:38:46] <br> They've moved on to making fun of the disabled and abused
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[03:40:05] <Teltariat> I should have sed the word 'commonplace', rather than 'tame'.
[03:40:45] <br> Dogpile scared me the other day
[03:41:25] <br> It's suggestion for a search on the natural child project was "nudist russian kids gallery"
[03:41:46] <br> *dogpile is a search engine
[03:42:46] <Tempt> "natural child project"?
[03:42:53] <Tempt> Do I get the feeling I really don't want to know?
[03:43:07] <br> Educating children by yourself with public school
[03:43:20] <br> *without
[03:44:25] <br> Isn't it odd though that if I was looking for child porn they're willing to help me phrase it correctly
[03:44:52] <Teltariat> Non-context sensitive search algorithms ftw.
[03:45:10] <br> Ebay is my favorite though
[03:45:26] <br> no matter what you search for ebay has it
[03:45:35] <Teltariat> Or should I have said "non-intelligent", rather, since "context sensitive" means something else in the search engine domain?
[03:45:58] <br> Ever tried a human search engine like mahalo?
[03:46:53] <paulf> I think the humans on the other end just use google :)
[03:47:09] <br> true, but I doubt they'd search for nude kids
[03:47:45] <br> I remember this one search engine you could watch in real-time
[03:47:53] <paulf> probably true, but hard to say
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[03:48:06] <br> Just guy kept rephasing his search which was funny
[03:48:07] *** agony_ has quit IRC
[03:48:33] <br> And someone looking for naked children too oddly enough
[03:48:53] <br> I'm starting to notice a correlation between computer and pedophillia
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[03:52:27] <br> I gtg though
[03:52:32] <br> Bye, God bless
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[03:56:43] <Tempt> About time, too.
[04:00:19] <myrkraverk> what's up with naked children?
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[04:00:56] <myrkraverk> as long as the kids aren't cold, I don't see a reason to bring it up
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[04:23:34] <jafari> anyone familiar with bind9? is a nsupdate suppose to take 72hrs for the DNS zones to update the database?
[04:28:08] <RainDoctor> oh well
[04:28:29] <RainDoctor> it should be immediate
[04:28:57] <RainDoctor> secondly, unless you have applied a patch to bind9, your backend is buncha flat files
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[04:31:34] <jafari> when i do a nslookup its still point to the old dns server
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[04:35:49] <tuck12> Is there a way from within solaris 10 to find out which HBA i have on the box or I have to actually open the box to look at it
[04:36:25] <jbk> well what info are you looking for specifically?
[04:36:28] <jbk> and what type of hba?
[04:39:30] <tuck12> jbk: I have a T3 connected to a Sun v440 box , the device doesn't show at 'format' , but the command cfgadm -al  shows a FC  connection there.  So I think I need a HBA driver for the T3 to be visible
[04:39:55] <Tempt> naah
[04:39:58] <Tempt> should be right the HBA
[04:40:03] <Tempt> probably a LUN mapping issue
[04:40:03] <jbk> try fcinfo hba-port
[04:40:09] <tuck12> oh okay
[04:40:10] <tuck12> hang on
[04:40:45] <tuck12> fcinfo hba-port
[04:40:45] <tuck12> No Adapters Found.
[04:41:15] <jbk> hmm does cfgadm -al show it as 'connected' ?
[04:41:36] <tuck12> ahhh,i didn't do it by root
[04:41:44] <tuck12> now i do it by root, it spits out a lot
[04:41:57] <tuck12> very nice
[04:42:33] <jbk> ok, if that shows and and after doing cfgadm -al, format doesn't show anything, it's likely a lun masking issue
[04:42:42] <tuck12> http://www.pastebin.org/4655
[04:43:03] <jbk> or
[04:43:09] <jbk> it could be disconnected :)
[04:43:49] <tuck12> how can it be disconnected ?
[04:44:04] <tuck12> if it shows all those info there
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[04:46:11] <tuck12> jbk: this works a while back
[04:46:36] <tuck12> I reinstalled the OS and next thing i know the device is not shown in 'format' anymore
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[04:56:16] <flyingparchment> awesome, sun finally released a fix for several libtiff problems over a year old
[04:57:01] <paulf> g'night
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[04:57:16] <flyingparchment> QA is one thing, but taking a year for a security fix is a bit extreme ;)
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[05:01:17] <Triskelios> jafari: re: dns: 'dig' on the records will show the TTL before they expire
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[05:12:38] <axisys_> my top shows Memory: 32G phys mem, 1247M free mem, 8193M swap, 8193M free swap
[05:12:45] <axisys_> and my vmstat 5 last line shows
[05:12:47] <axisys_>  0 0 0 5088400 1232592 133 814 0 0 0  0  0 13  0 13  8 2468 4688 3295  9  2 89
[05:13:00] <axisys_> so how much memory free I really have?
[05:13:49] <axisys_> 12G correct?
[05:14:10] <axisys_> not really
[05:14:13] <jbk> 1.2g
[05:14:35] <axisys_> jbk: so top shows it correct too.. ok
[05:14:39] <jbk> also, can do (as root) 'echo ::memstat | mdb -k'
[05:14:48] <jbk> if you want a break down
[05:15:12] <axisys_> jbk: i have tons of oracle running on a t2000 and only 1.2G real memory left.. ouch!
[05:15:56] <jbk> but you don't appear to be paging
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[05:15:59] <Triskelios> the ZFS ARC cache will (read: should) yield to memory pressure
[05:16:04] <jbk> and cpu looks to be largely idle
[05:16:34] <flyingparchment> axisys: it's good to have no free memory, it means your memory is being well utilised
[05:16:40] <jbk> so unless there are i/o issues, you're probably ok (unless the current load isn't really representative)
[05:17:00] <axisys_> jbk: current load is somewhat closer..
[05:17:29] <jbk> just from the vmstat bit, i'd say things look good
[05:17:34] <axisys_> Triskelios: how do I check if that is what's happening? i have two separate pool .. so redo log on diff zpool
[05:18:26] <axisys_> jbk: cpu wise I am pretty good.. but when I type commands .. it seems little slower to respond..
[05:19:03] <jbk> hmm.. perhaps mpstat
[05:19:03] <axisys_> jbk: no problem w/ io ..
[05:19:20] <axisys_> jbk: btw still waiting on the ::memstat output..
[05:19:33] <jbk> it can take a while if large amounts of memory are in use
[05:19:36] <axisys_> almost five mins
[05:19:41] <axisys_> jbk: ok
[05:19:46] <jbk> it took like 2+ hours on a 192gb 6900 :)
[05:20:09] <axisys_> lol
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[05:21:37] <axisys_> jbk: mpstat does not look good
[05:21:39] <axisys_> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/733828
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[05:21:52] <axisys_> only few of them and hevily utilized
[05:22:01] <axisys_> how do I check if I am using FSS?
[05:22:08] <axisys_> or not
[05:22:17] <kjetilho> God is angry!
[05:22:25] <jbk> should be some ps flags that will show that
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[05:22:33] <jbk> hmm that jump in cross calls is somewhat interesting
[05:22:45] <jbk> how many oracle instances?
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[05:23:17] <axisys_> 45
[05:23:40] <jbk> are they all suppsoed to be doing stuff?
[05:23:53] <axisys_> jbk: yep..
[05:24:14] <jbk> it would seem to suggest the load isn't getting distributed evenly
[05:24:17] <axisys_> jbk: they all are off of same zone
[05:24:27] <axisys_> jbk: yep
[05:24:38] <axisys_> may be I am not using FSS
[05:24:54] <jbk> i don't think that should matter too much
[05:25:16] <jbk> since the overall load doesnt' seem high enough to really cause fss to come into play
[05:25:18] <axisys_> is there a oracle provider for dtrace?
[05:25:52] <jbk> not that i'm aware of
[05:25:59] <axisys_> dtrace on syscall shows most calls are oracle.. by 100 times hiher than others
[05:26:09] <jbk> which syscalls?
[05:26:12] <jbk> gethrtime() ?
[05:26:24] <axisys_> jbk: yep
[05:26:27] <axisys_> jbk: how do u know?
[05:26:31] <axisys_> hehe
[05:26:35] <jamesd> the xcals
[05:26:46] <jbk> i've admined a few oracle boxes :)
[05:26:53] <jamesd> didn't you watch  brian cantrill  google post
[05:27:05] <jamesd>  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8002801113289007228
[05:27:31] <jbk> i believe that is a 'fast' syscall
[05:27:45] <axisys_> jamesd: i did a month or so ago.. u expect me to remember all those genious chat all the time :P ?
[05:28:04] <axisys_> jamesd: let me go over there?
[05:28:31] <axisys_> jbk: times is the highest probefunc for oracle
[05:28:43] <axisys_> dtrace -n 'syscall:::entry /execname == "oracle"/ { @[probefunc] = count(); }'
[05:28:49] <axisys_> let me do a ustack()
[05:28:54] <jbk> heh
[05:29:07] <jbk> all you'll probably see is a bunch of libskwouvnrwovnrwv names
[05:29:08] <jbk> :)
[05:30:10] <axisys_> i remember putting the zfs fs record size same as oracle record size..
[05:30:39] <axisys_> might be some more recommendation to optimize .. assuming that can help..
[05:30:47] <axisys_> but not sure how to fix the xcalls
[05:30:48] <mlh> does anyone know the routine in oracle that initially reads queries?  From googling, it's probably kk<something> but what is <something>
[05:31:35] <axisys_> jbk: i will do another mpstat after the memstat finished
[05:31:49] <kjetilho> ARGH!  I hate it when the server spends 5 minutes on POST, then leaves me 5 seconds to react and press a key
[05:33:31] <axisys_> jbk: here is the memstat http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/733839
[05:34:04] <jbk> i'm guessing most of that is ARC
[05:34:09] <jbk> at least i hope it is :)
[05:34:36] <axisys_> jbk: what you mean by ARC?
[05:34:40] <axisys_> zfs arc?
[05:34:43] <jbk> yeah
[05:35:16] <axisys_> jbk: i guess i need to run some dtrace to verify?!
[05:35:30] <jbk> hmm not sure offhand how you can...
[05:35:38] <jbk> i'm surprised they haven't added something to memstat for that
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[05:42:26] <axisys_> jbk: i think those xcalls are due to memstat.. i dont see them anymore
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[05:43:58] <jbk> could be
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[05:57:58] <brad_> Hey Guys
[05:58:11] <brad_> Can anyone help me get my audio working?
[05:58:28] <jbk> hmm.. still no guide for the summit..
[05:58:46] <brad_> I've got a creative sound blaster live and I've installed the patch
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[06:03:15] <brad_> What exactly is ON?
[06:03:54] <brad_> btw
[06:04:35] <akolb> ON = OS + Networking
[06:04:49] <brad_> O 'Ok
[06:05:16] <akolb> it is a bit more these days, but the name stuck
[06:05:56] <brad_> Is there a big differnce between Solaris Express COmmunity and Developer edition?
[06:06:23] <brad_> I just installed what they sent me, the developer version
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[06:07:30] <jbk> developer edition is essentially a slightly older community edition release that's gone through more testing
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[06:10:54] <brad_> Any one have a creative sb live and can configure it?
[06:11:41] <jamesd> sorry my  18 cpu machine with 32GB of ram isn't used to play mp3's
[06:12:35] <|UltraSPARC|> how quaint... and I ordered a T2000 for playing the most recent Fleetwood Mac compilation album
[06:12:38] <|UltraSPARC|> :(
[06:12:39] <brad_> not even at 9billion kbps?
[06:12:50] <e^ipi> an e6900 would make a fantastic media hub
[06:13:00] * |UltraSPARC| sends it back and orders a dell
[06:13:01] <jbk> but somewhat large
[06:13:07] <jamesd> |UltraSPARC|, i'm not even sure the  t2000 has an audio chip on board.
[06:13:14] <jbk> they are 2m tall
[06:14:41] <|UltraSPARC|> mini iron is sexy
[06:14:49] <axisys_> jbk: do u think upping the groub.dba project memory to 5G would help?
[06:15:02] <axisys_> may be oracle performace will improve?!
[06:15:15] <jbk> are you actually having oracle performance issues?
[06:15:18] <iron_angel> Hmm, I haven't tried an emu10k1 chip under Solaris. Maybe I should poke at that, since I have an extra. Any reason it wouldn't work in a SPARC?
[06:15:41] <axisys_> jbk: right at this point no.. but we did earlier this morning..
[06:15:51] <axisys_> jbk: i was off so dont know the whole story
[06:16:07] <axisys_> jbk: i guess i sh'd find the real story and bug u then
[06:16:14] <axisys_> jbk: :-)
[06:16:25] <jbk> the first thing would be to look at a statspack or whatever it's called now (owr?)
[06:16:32] <jbk> and start working your way down
[06:16:55] <brad_> iron_angel, I actually read that some sound blaster won't work on sparc
[06:16:58] <e^ipi> my sparc is broke or something :-/
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[06:18:08] <axisys_> jbk: i will be working with a dba..
[06:18:29] <axisys_> jbk: thnx
[06:18:36] <brad_> Due to a hardware restriction the SoundBlaster Live! may not work on Solaris SPARC
[06:18:47] <jbk> one of the key things it should tell you is the difference in i/o's based on sga size
[06:18:58] <jbk> well not differnece, but total # of ios
[06:19:20] <axisys_> jbk: http://www.akadia.com/services/ora_statspack_survival_guide.html ?
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[06:19:51] <jbk> increasing should (unless the whole thing's already in memory) always reduce the number of i/o's, but once sga is == working set, the benefits drop off
[06:20:46] <jbk> should be a good starting point
[06:20:57] <axisys_> jbk: thanks a lot
[06:21:10] <jbk> you want to see where oracle is spending it's time
[06:21:27] <jbk> (though it's better to have the info for the period where there was a perceived problem)
[06:21:34] * iron_angel nods
[06:21:46] <jbk> it could be as simple as a bad query causing full table scans
[06:21:58] <jbk> and no amount of OS-level tuning's gonna help that
[06:22:22] <jbk> also, is this oracle10g?
[06:22:26] <jbk> or later?
[06:22:40] <axisys_> 10g i think.. defintely not later
[06:22:47] <jbk> ok..
[06:22:54] <jbk> just wanted to be sure..
[06:23:47] <jbk> a few general things to just verify (i.e. this should already be the case, but sometimes I've seen with some dbas where they retain no-longer-relevant-knowledge and try to apply it to newer stuff)
[06:23:53] <axisys_> so statspack should catch bad query.. or slow queries?
[06:24:00] <jbk> async i/o is NOT disabled
[06:24:15] <jbk> it can
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[06:24:43] <jbk> the default is enabled, you have eto explicitly turn it off in the initXXX.ora file (iirc)
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[06:25:01] <jbk> should have 1 db writer
[06:25:19] <jamesd> its too bad that oracle hasn't put in dtrace probes it would be interesting to track  a start of the query all the way into the kernl and back have it all linked to just a single query.
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[06:25:34] <jbk> and if the statspack shows it's useful, don't be afraid to increase the sga
[06:25:43] <jbk> for some reason, some dbas are scared to death of large sgas
[06:26:10] <brad_> Does solaris use the OSS sound system?
[06:26:44] <sleepcat> speaking of oracle.....I'm having trouble starting the listener on solaris 10 u4
[06:26:55] <sleepcat> is this common?
[06:27:06] <jbk> shouldn't be
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[06:27:59] <jbk> http://www.sun.com/servers/coolthreads/tnb/applications_oracle.jsp <-- may want to look at that as well..
[06:29:53] <jbk> but my guess is it's more likely to be an oracle tuning issue
[06:29:54] <axisys_> jbk: that was pretty precise.. wow! unlike the blogs
[06:30:25] <axisys_> jbk: those dbas.. lol
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[06:30:39] <jbk> well it's not even necessairly their fault :)
[06:30:49] <jbk> write a query incorrectly
[06:30:52] <brad_> is it safe to install oss?
[06:30:56] <jbk> and an index might not be used
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[06:31:08] <axisys_> jbk: i am just playing.. like jamesd said ..would be nice to have a provider
[06:31:15] <jbk> and boom, your performance goes to crap
[06:31:29] <jbk> or, also fun
[06:31:33] <jbk> i've seen with weblogic
[06:31:34] <axisys_> jbk: yep.. typical database issue
[06:31:54] <jbk> where sometimes it's configured to test a connection both before it grabs a connection from the thread pool and after it's done
[06:32:12] <jbk> which it does by issuing a small dummy query (select * from dual i think)
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[06:32:42] <jbk> change it to just do it before it uses the connection and that can also provide a big boost in some cases
[06:33:19] * jamesd is just glad i am not a  MS SQL   DBA, the ones at my work have spent more than a week solving a performance issue, at least some part of it was caused by having the antivirus software scan the database files... i can't beleve they put up  with that shit...  and haven't moved it over to solaris and oracle.
[06:33:54] <jbk> :)
[06:34:05] <axisys_> jbk: in my /opt/Oracle/product/10.2.0 I see two init.ora files dbs/init.ora and srvm/admin/init.ora
[06:34:17] <axisys_> jbk: none has the aysnc
[06:34:32] <axisys_> i did a grep -i async
[06:34:39] <jbk> ususally it's init<SID_OF_DATABASE>.ora
[06:34:53] <jbk> it's probably not under the product dir
[06:37:48] <axisys_> find /opt/Oracle -type f -print | grep -i init*.ora | xargs grep -i async
[06:37:51] <axisys_> none
[06:38:12] <jbk> are there any other filesystems?
[06:38:50] <axisys_> jbk: this is zone within a zfs file system
[06:39:02] <axisys_> i guess i can search the zone root path from global
[06:39:14] <jbk> just one filesystem in the zone?
[06:39:54] <jbk> or better, just pastbin df -h & ls -l / from the zone
[06:40:43] <e^ipi> hmm... I think it might just be one dead processor and not the whole motherboard ( or both procs ) on this blade1k
[06:40:44] <axisys_> well i have multiple zfs dataset to comply with separate device for pool
[06:41:07] <jbk> well what filesystems are visible in the zone?
[06:41:50] <e^ipi> which wouldn't be terrible, i can run on 1 until I can afford to replace the other
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[06:42:39] <john--__> so in my continued journey through ignorance im trying to set up apache to run on Nevada
[06:42:46] <axisys_> /opt/Oraarch, /opt/Oraback, /opt/Oracle, /opt/Oradata these are datasets plus the / of the zone
[06:42:51] <john--__> i did a svcadm enable apache2
[06:42:56] <john--__> and then when i type svcs
[06:43:00] <john--__> it shows apache2 in maintenance
[06:43:11] <jbk> ick
[06:43:14] <jbk> that just seems wrong to me
[06:43:19] <jbk> but
[06:43:22] <john--__> svcadm clear apache2 and svcadm restart apache2 dont help
[06:43:24] <jbk> it might also be a pfile..
[06:43:27] <john--__> am i missing something obvious?
[06:43:44] <jbk> john--__: is there an httpd.conf file?
[06:43:45] <jbk> also
[06:43:59] <john--__> i guess im used to linux where they provide a sample httpd.conf file
[06:44:08] <john--__> where should i be looking for that?
[06:44:19] <jbk> svcs -x apache2 should give you the location of the smf log file (which should contain the output of the commands it tried to run)
[06:44:21] <john--__> the paths are throwing me for a loop here
[06:44:22] <axisys_> john--__: what jbk said
[06:44:36] <jacobs> /etc/apache2
[06:44:46] <john--__> so what is maintenance?
[06:44:59] <john--__> linux really just has a service running or not
[06:45:01] <jacobs> there is an example /etc/apache2/httpd.conf-example.
[06:45:04] <jbk> it means you wanted the service running, but for some reason it wont' stay running
[06:45:14] <axisys_> john--__: tried couple times and then failed
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[06:45:23] <jbk> john--__: smf tries to be a bit smarter
[06:45:42] <john--__> smf is new in nevada?
[06:45:46] <jbk> no
[06:45:49] <|UltraSPARC|> smf is new in solaris 10
[06:45:50] <jbk> first came in solaris 10
[06:45:51] <axisys_> john--__: you should paste the svcs -x apache2 and then give the url here
[06:45:54] <john--__> ah ok
[06:45:54] <jacobs> It probably fails due to the missing conf file.  IT should probably be a dependency in the manifest
[06:46:04] <jbk> jacobs: that's my guess
[06:46:15] <john--__> so the log is in /var/scv/log/entwork-http:apache2.log
[06:46:16] <|UltraSPARC|> yes, the missing conf file will place the service in a maintenance state
[06:46:18] <john--__> interesting
[06:46:47] <axisys_> john--__: read that log file and it probably what jbk and jacobs saing
[06:46:48] <|UltraSPARC|> the truth is, every linux distribution seems to use a different init system... some play on sysvinit or bsd init (slackware)
[06:46:56] <axisys_> john--__: u r probably missing httpd.conf file
[06:47:03] <|UltraSPARC|> a true sysvinit was already more robust, but smf is even better
[06:47:18] <jbk> john--__: that is essentially stdout & stderr from trying to start hte smf process, not to be confused with apache's own log files
[06:48:32] <john--__> the thing im finding with solaris is that there are not good docs on the web
[06:48:37] <john--__> i can google any stupid linux thing
[06:48:40] <jacobs> Just looked at the apache2 svc manifest, it should list the config file as a required dependency and doesn't.  That would put the svc offline due to unmet dependency instead of maint.
[06:48:41] <jbk> basically smf tracks dependencies between services, as well as the desired state (running or not) as well as a number of intermediate states, it will always try to bring a service to the desired state (subject to any dependencies)
[06:48:41] <john--__> and find a howto site
[06:48:55] <john--__> ah..
[06:49:02] <jbk> john--__: docs.sun.com
[06:49:03] <john--__> im starting to see why people say solaris is more robust
[06:49:14] <jbk> john--__: it even goes further though
[06:49:21] <jbk> if the service dies
[06:49:32] <jbk> it will try to immediately restart it (up to a limit)
[06:49:41] <john--__> ah
[06:49:46] <jbk> if it can't bring it online, that's when it moves to maintence
[06:50:17] <jbk> what's neat is how it interacts with the fault management system in solaris
[06:50:45] <jbk> if a cpu has an uncorrectable error
[06:50:57] <jbk> it will merely kill whatever was running on the cpu at the time of the error
[06:51:13] <jbk> if it's the kernel though, you will still get a panic (like previous versions of solaris)
[06:51:20] <jbk> but if it's a regular process
[06:51:25] <jbk> if it's part of a service
[06:51:37] <jbk> smf will pick that up and try to restart it automatically
[06:51:50] <john--__> ah
[06:51:54] <jbk> as well as any dependent services (if the dependency indiates it should)
[06:51:59] <john--__> so in solaris 10 and up
[06:52:00] <jbk> it will also offline the cpu as well
[06:52:05] <john--__> you dont use init.d to restart services?
[06:52:11] <john--__> im very used to using 'service' on RHEL
[06:52:18] <jbk> they offer some compatability scripts
[06:52:18] <john--__> and dont touch the init.d scripts directly
[06:52:31] <jbk> which just then invoke svcadm enable/disable/restart
[06:52:38] <|UltraSPARC|> john--__, the sun docs are great
[06:52:47] <|UltraSPARC|> you should try to administer SCO products
[06:52:59] <|UltraSPARC|> virtually nothing outside your support contract or SCO's docs
[06:53:18] <jbk> i'm not really aware of anything service does that can't be done by running the init.d script
[06:53:19] <john--__> i dont think ill ever have the aptitude to  be a hotshot solaris admin, but if i can work my way around a system it'd be nice
[06:53:22] <jbk> on RHEL
[06:53:32] <brad_> What happens to SCO clients now?
[06:53:37] <john--__> service is just quicker and easier
[06:53:48] <|UltraSPARC|> they will continue to be supported, I imagine
[06:53:54] <jbk> there are some other cool things with smf as well (it's rbac & least privilege integration is pretty cool)
[06:53:57] <|UltraSPARC|> if not, they would become creditors
[06:54:17] <jbk> though some of the interfaces could be improved (and has been a topic of debate already)
[06:54:20] <|UltraSPARC|> depends on whether SCO restructures or not, they have a good software product (at least the kernel is good)
[06:54:35] <|UltraSPARC|> sysvr5 is a great kernel, and has solid threading
[06:54:47] <jbk> you can, for example, set things up so a user can start/stop a service
[06:54:51] <jbk> but unlike using sudo
[06:55:05] <jbk> with rbac, the user can never directly invoke anything as root
[06:55:45] <jbk> (essentially, a message is sent to svc.startd, it checks the authorizations of the user + the settings for the service, then takes the action on it's own)
[06:56:01] <jbk> vs. running a suid binary which then execs a shell which then runs a script
[06:56:20] <jbk> and
[06:56:33] <john--__> cool
[06:56:37] <jbk> as part of the service configuration, you can specify privileges used when running the service
[06:56:44] <jbk> which actually is nice for webservers
[06:56:59] <jbk> because then they never need to startup as root to bind to port 80
[06:58:11] <jbk> you can say 'start as user httpd + priv_netaddr (this allows binding to ports < 1024)' in the service and combined with rbac provides a pretty sweet solution
[06:58:29] <jbk> espeically if you have another group that needs to dink with the webserver config or start scripts
[06:58:46] <jbk> they can have permission to do that, without having to worry about a potential root escalation hole
[07:00:31] <john--__> ah
[07:01:14] <john--__> whats a status 96?
[07:01:21] <john--__> i copied that example config into place
[07:01:24] <jbk> not sure
[07:01:25] <john--__> but it isnt helping
[07:01:31] <john--__> i suppose i should do this during the daytime
[07:01:38] <jbk> anything in the logfile?
[07:01:49] <jbk> also, did you do a svcadm clear after that?
[07:01:55] <john--__> no
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[07:02:21] <john--__> ah
[07:02:23] <john--__> that did it
[07:02:26] <john--__> appears to be running now
[07:02:45] <john--__> lets see if i can get it up in firefox
[07:02:48] <jbk> when it goes into maintenance, you ahve to tell it it's ok to try to run it again :)
[07:03:00] <john--__> It works!
[07:03:03] <john--__> ha
[07:03:06] <jbk> it's kinda like a single node HA-cluster
[07:03:09] <john--__> i guess there's no fancy apache place
[07:03:12] <john--__> err apache face
[07:03:17] <john--__> like linux apache installs have
[07:05:16] <sleepcat> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/733903
[07:05:21] <sleepcat> any thoughts?
[07:05:38] <john--__> i feel like i accomplished something now
[07:05:39] <john--__> heh
[07:06:09] <jbk> sleepcat: i'd try trussing it.. my guess is it's a shared memory issue
[07:06:33] <sleepcat> how do i truss it?  I'm new to oracle.
[07:06:44] <jbk> kill the listener
[07:06:57] <jbk> truss -f lsnrctl start listener
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[07:07:26] <jbk> my guess is you'll see in there somehwere shmat() fail with EPERM
[07:07:58] <jbk> i take it you don't want to allow connections from other servers?
[07:08:57] <sleepcat> jbk, I just installed it and don't have other servers.
[07:09:07] <sleepcat> i'm learning oracle
[07:09:28] <sleepcat> wow truss gave me a lot of information..
[07:10:31] <jbk> are you running the listener as the oracle user? or the same user the database is running as?
[07:10:58] <sleepcat> i'm running it as the user who installed oracle
[07:11:01] <jbk> though I'm not quite sure how an IPC listener would work
[07:11:24] <jbk> usually you set your listener.ora to listen on a specific ip
[07:11:27] <sleepcat> i followed instructions online and created an oracle user, than a oracle project
[07:11:38] <sleepcat> yeah i'll try to run netca
[07:12:13] <sleepcat> thats where i create the option to listen on an ip, right?
[07:12:31] <jbk> not sure :)
[07:12:34] <jbk> i'm not a dba
[07:12:57] <jbk> i know the config info (ip, port, instance, etc.) is stored in a lisp-ish format in listener.ora
[07:13:06] <jbk> but dunno about any tools for manipulating the file itself
[07:13:11] <sleepcat> vi
[07:13:16] <john--__> well bed time
[07:13:18] <john--__> g'night
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[07:14:59] <sleepcat> yippy!  thank you jbk
[07:15:11] <sleepcat> i ran netca it my listener is listening!
[07:15:22] <jbk> that's good to hear
[07:15:25] <jbk> *rimshot*
[07:15:38] <sleepcat> now how do i start em?
[07:15:44] <jbk> the database?
[07:15:47] <sleepcat> yes
[07:16:00] <jbk> probably a script called 'dbstart'
[07:16:05] <jbk> in $ORACLE_HOME/bin
[07:16:12] <jbk> probably the easiest way
[07:16:43] <jbk> assuming your oratab is there (usually /var/opt/oracle/oratab)
[07:16:50] <jbk> and has the instance set to Y
[07:16:58] <sleepcat> OMG, i think I very close...
[07:17:07] <sleepcat> OMG, i think I'm very close...
[07:17:59] <Auralis> http://bash.org/?813975
[07:18:45] <jbk> heh
[07:18:52] <jbk> i actually have a quote or two on there :)
[07:19:24] <jbk> http://bash.org/?16248
[07:23:13] <bda> jbk: You should have built a robot that would get beer for you.
[07:23:35] <jbk> that wasn't one of the requirements :(
[07:23:38] <e^ipi> that would be an awesome robot
[07:23:40] <|UltraSPARC|> I wish someone would built a robot that wouldn't eat old people's medicine
[07:23:51] <|UltraSPARC|> the robot insurance lobby is out of control
[07:24:59] <|UltraSPARC|> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVnkd7ot_pw
[07:25:03] <|UltraSPARC|> as you can see, it's documented
[07:26:28] <jbk> this one had to collect and sort ping pong balls
[07:26:42] <jbk> then deposit the different colors in two different nets
[07:26:52] <jbk> do some line following
[07:26:59] <jbk> race back and forth
[07:27:03] <jbk> and something else as i recall
[07:27:59] <bda> Destroy All Humans who got in the way of its ping pong ball collection duties?
[07:28:08] <jbk> haha
[07:28:29] <jbk> the problem was trying to find useful sensors
[07:28:38] <e^ipi> lasers
[07:28:39] <jbk> as well as being able to accuratly track its own movement
[07:28:46] <e^ipi> just use lasers
[07:28:49] <e^ipi> strong ones
[07:28:59] <e^ipi> destroy anyone likely to be a witness
[07:29:00] <bda> Humans are smelly meatbeasts. They are easy to differentiate from ping pong balls.
[07:29:03] <bda> Hm.
[07:29:10] <bda> Unless the ping pong balls were FILLED WITH HUMANS.
[07:29:10] <jbk> working 40+ hours ontop of 17cr hrs + labs didn't help things either :)
[07:29:28] <e^ipi> no need to collect the balls if you've killed anyone around who cares
[07:29:42] <jbk> the handyboard was pretty neat though
[07:29:55] <bda> e^ipi: I've had that same thought a number of times over the course of the last few years...
[07:30:03] <jbk> http://www.handyboard.com/
[07:30:14] <jbk> it used a C-ish language to program it
[07:30:34] <bda> Logo! (Cricket Board)
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[07:40:21] <jbk> but that's all over and done with now
[07:48:07] <sleepcat> OC4J Configuration issue. /oracle/10g/oc4j/j2ee/
[07:50:21] <sleepcat> maybe I should reinstall solaris 10...
[07:50:40] <sleepcat> I've reinstalled oracle so many times there may be some clutter...
[07:51:53] <Marv|LG> i thought oracle kept it files minus a few in the oracle home directory
[07:52:04] <Marv|LG> install directory
[07:58:07] <sleepcat> you have to watch out, they put stuff in /usr/bin and /var/opt/oracle too
[08:03:42] <sleepcat> YES YES YES
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[08:17:26] <e^ipi> what am I no longer allowed to bring on airplanes anymore?
[08:17:45] <e^ipi> just liquids, or have they extended the craziness to other substances ?
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[08:39:27] <WickedWicky> lightners
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[08:50:20] <trochej> Elo
[08:50:22] <trochej> Coffee?
[08:50:58] <asyd> +1
[08:51:38] <trochej> Good
[08:52:13] <Tempt> hmmm
[08:52:16] <Tempt> coffee
[08:52:20] <Tempt> That would be nice.
[08:53:13] <sleepcat> god when oracle is broken it is really broden
[08:53:44] <WickedWicky> hey tempt
[08:53:49] <WickedWicky> coffee sounds good
[08:54:26] <Tempt> anyway
[08:54:30] <Tempt> time to pack up and init 5
[08:54:37] <Tempt> Later everyone
[08:54:40] <WickedWicky> take care
[08:55:02] <trochej> Frog. There are pilgrimages to our coffe maker. I mean, other half of the building is always here. 8:30, sharp.
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[09:07:51] <trochej> I can tell one thing. MacOS X sucks as a desktop.
[09:08:00] <trochej> It gets in my way, when I want to do things
[09:08:03] <trochej> Drat
[09:08:29] <trochej> ROTFL
[09:09:03] <trochej> At my new work there is Netra 210 still hosting solaris 9. Unpatched. Not a single patch ever.
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[09:10:16] <trygvis> that is more common that you think :)
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[09:15:14] <sleepcat> solaris can handle not being patched
[09:15:29] <sleepcat> after all, a patched server will get more patches
[09:15:36] <sleepcat> I keep getting them
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[09:20:24] <trochej> trygvis: Given that it's a production system...
[09:20:40] <trochej> I'd hopew they at least read planet.security for solarios
[09:20:42] <trochej> solris
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[09:26:37] <trygvis> yay firewalls
[09:28:37] <trochej> trygvis: Firewalls what? :)
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[09:33:42] <rootard> Does anyone know where I can find scadm for Solaris 10?
[09:38:36] <Stric> /usr/platform/`uname -i`/sbin/scadm
[09:38:51] <rootard> It's not there on my T1000
[09:39:22] <rootard> uname -a: SunOS T1000-1 5.10 Generic_125100-04 sun4v sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-T1000
[09:41:10] <rootard> I thought it was supposed to be part of SUNWkvm but it seems to be a ghost.
[09:42:00] <WickedWicky> it is part of SUNWkvm
[09:42:30] <WickedWicky> but when I google the theory is that somebody made a misassumption and thought the T1000 didnt have an SC controller
[09:43:40] <WickedWicky> maybe there is a new revision of the package around
[09:45:04] <ofu> i think there is no scadm on T1000
[09:45:18] <ofu> because T1000 doesnt use alom
[09:45:49] <rootard> When I #. on a T1000: Sun(tm) Advanced Lights Out Manager CMT v1.1.2
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[09:49:16] <ofu> hmmm
[09:49:31] <ofu> what exactly do you want to do with scadm?
[09:49:42] <rootard> Reset the alom password :-D
[09:50:09] <ofu> ouch
[09:50:19] <rootard> yeah.
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[09:53:28] <gammon> anyone having trouble of SXCE 74 dvd for x86 ?
[09:53:35] <gammon> ^trouble with
[09:54:34] <gammon> anyone got sxce 74 to *work* then ? ;)
[09:55:29] <trochej> gammon: I got it to burn o DVD
[09:55:53] <gammon> dvd burn worked - it's the data on it which looks like a problem
[09:56:03] <gammon> it boots to grub command line (no menu)
[09:56:14] <trochej> Uhm, whts wrong?
[09:56:31] <gammon> mounted the ISO image & menu.lst is binary gibberish
[09:57:04] <gammon> did you get it to boot trochej ?
[09:57:11] <rootard> I just installed SUNWkvm.v from Sol10U4 and it did not add scadm.
[09:57:29] <trochej> gammon: Let me check
[09:57:34] <gammon> cheers
[09:58:27] <trochej> gammon: Boots for me.
[09:58:34] <gammon> you get the menu ?
[09:59:05] <trochej> gammon: I'm going throu installator right now
[09:59:22] <gammon> hmm - this is x86 right ?
[09:59:44] <gammon> that's bizarre
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[10:00:15] <trochej> gammon: Yup
[10:00:18] <gammon> here's what my "setup_install_server" script from sxce74 thinks it is:
[10:00:21] <trochej> x86
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[10:00:38] <gammon> $ file setup_install_server
[10:00:40] <gammon> setup_install_server:   MS-DOS library
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[10:01:22] <rootard> Stric/WickedWicky/ofu: Thanks for the tips.
[10:01:31] <gammon> ok thanks trochej that's very weird
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[10:03:36] <ofu> wow, i just looked at http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_private/Devices/System_Board/SYSBD_SP_Enter_T1000.html
[10:03:54] <ofu> there are 6 jumpers labeled "unknown"
[10:04:09] <ofu> perhaps one of them resets your sc and removes your password
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[10:05:05] <ofu> would it work to remove the battery for a few minutes to reset the password?
[10:06:00] <tsp> gammon: gnu file > solaris file :)
[10:06:37] <gammon> huh tsp ?
[10:06:48] <gammon> it's supposed to be a shell script was my point
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[10:06:54] <gammon> it's not - it's some weird binary data
[10:07:10] <tsp> ah
[10:07:21] <tsp> corrupted iso?
[10:07:31] <gammon> iso seems fine
[10:07:35] <gammon> *seems*
[10:07:47] <gammon> just individual files are weird
[10:08:34] <rootard> ofu: Yes, I've opened the case and looked around for a battery and there are a few unknown jumpers.
[10:08:34] <trochej> gammon: Must be something, since I'm just installing sxce 74
[10:09:00] <trochej> rootard: Switch them randomly
[10:09:03] <rootard> We are actually not using the Enterprise T1000, just the plain old T1000.
[10:09:06] <gammon> it's bizarre that only some files seem to be corrupted - i would have expected whole iso to have been busted if that was the problem
[10:09:17] * gammon starts downloading again
[10:09:33] <tsp> check each part with md5, then download the parts that are corrupt
[10:09:55] <gammon> yes, of course inevitably i no longer have the pieces
[10:11:01] <gammon> oh well at least i know it's my problem not something wrong with the source
[10:11:01] <trochej> gammon: Did you check md5 for parts?
[10:11:10] <gammon> no i'm slack that way
[10:11:17] <gammon> i put them together
[10:11:20] <gammon> mounted the image
[10:11:23] <gammon> that looked at
[10:11:28] <gammon> ^looked ok
[10:11:35] <gammon> so assumed it all worked
[10:12:33] <WickedWicky> did you copy it under windows by any chance?
[10:12:41] <gammon> no - wget to sol sparc
[10:12:54] <gammon> as per usual
[10:13:28] <gammon> i would have expected unzip to complain if the downloads were wrong
[10:13:35] <gammon> never mind, i'll try again
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[10:16:44] <rootard> trochej: /away zzz
[10:16:50] <rootard> oops
[10:17:54] <trochej> rootard: Yes?
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[10:21:02] <ofu> rootard: the t2000 service manual knows setsc sc_servicemode true
[10:21:24] <ofu> Warning: misuse of this mode may invalidate your warranty.
[10:21:34] <ofu> seems to be a useful command ;-)
[10:27:30] <trochej> :)
[10:27:43] <trochej> it's always fun to invalidate your warranty
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[10:30:38] <stev7en> hello everyone
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[10:35:08] <Teltariat> Blastwave is absolutely wonderful.  I don't have the slightest idea how we'd get along without it.
[10:35:26] <trygvis> \o/
[10:35:30] <Teltariat> Seriously, they deserve to have like flowers mailed to them or something
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[10:36:00] <trygvis> http://www.blastwave.org/sponsors/donation.html
[10:36:38] <Teltariat> :)
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[10:38:45] <trochej> \o\
[10:38:47] <trochej> /o/
[10:38:50] <trochej> \o\
[10:38:51] <trochej> /o/
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[10:41:23] <Teltariat> I donated what little I could to the Blastwave project. :)
[10:41:56] <Teltariat> Use it wisely!  (Even though it probably wouldn't buy you a full dinner at a decent restaurant....) :P
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[10:43:35] <trochej> :)
[10:43:36] <trygvis> the best thing you can do is to contribute bug reports, fix bugs and submit new packages
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[10:46:25] <ofu> is /etc/inet/static_routes new in u4?
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[10:51:56] <tsp> Teltariat: without blastwave, we'd be compiling everything from source
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[11:09:55] <Teltariat> tsp: That sounds painful.  Has anyone here succeeded in running pkgsrc on Solaris?
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[11:18:57] <cmihai> Teltariat, yeah.\
[11:19:51] <jteo> pkgsrc is iffy.
[11:19:54] <cmihai> Teltariat, it bootstraps, though it can be broken at times (major dependencies such as perl or gcc or various libs are broken), and it takes quite an effort to get something more... complex such as mplayer or say some GTK app to compile.
[11:20:05] <cmihai> It's really not worth the effort.
[11:20:10] <Teltariat> :(
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[11:20:16] <Teltariat> I had high hopes for it
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[11:20:26] <jteo> supposedly IPS will save us all.
[11:20:33] <Teltariat> IPS?
[11:20:46] <Teltariat> The new package system?
[11:20:48] <jteo> the Sun proposed packaging system.
[11:21:04] <Teltariat> All they needed to do was copy Debian's and be done with that.
[11:21:07] <Teltariat> But nooooo.
[11:21:47] <cmihai> There is nothing wrong with the SVR 4 package system.
[11:21:52] <jteo> cloaks and daggers too.
[11:21:58] <jteo> cmihai: i agree.
[11:21:59] <cmihai> Debian's dpkg isn't all that big a deal either.
[11:22:22] <cmihai> You probably mean apt-get or aptitude. Those are wrappers for the package system (be it rpm or dpkg).
[11:22:25] <jteo> it's not about the specific pkg format, but rather the quality of the supporting infrastructure.
[11:22:47] <Teltariat> I happen to think very highly of Debian's dpkg and apt-friends.
[11:22:51] <cmihai> Take Gentoo's portage for example. Their package system is quite similar to that of Solaris.
[11:22:55] <Teltariat> They do a most excellent job.
[11:23:04] <cmihai> It's the wrapper scripts that do most fo the work.
[11:23:05] <Teltariat> Gentoo's portage is based on FreeBSD's ports
[11:23:07] <trygvis> the biggest advantage debian's system has is that is make it super easy to build and maintain packages
[11:23:20] <trygvis> it is more that just putting files in a package, it helps you with the complete building process
[11:23:45] <Teltariat> Yep
[11:23:55] <Teltariat> its even got tools that automatically build kernels and kernel modules
[11:23:58] <Teltariat> its swank.
[11:24:02] <trygvis> yep
[11:24:08] <Teltariat> It would fit well with Solaris' managed culture
[11:24:39] <Teltariat> <.<
[11:24:41] <Teltariat> >.>
[11:24:54] <Teltariat> well.../I/ think it would...
[11:26:32] <Teltariat> Solaris' current package system isn't /horrendous/ (I used to think much worse of it before than I do now), it could certainly benefit from at least work in dealing with recursive packages, and package management between upgrades
[11:26:48] <Teltariat> But I can understand the upgrade part, since Solaris (before OpenSolaris) didn't move quite as fast as it does now
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[11:31:41] <WickedWicky> hmm, pci10cf,1387@1f,2/disk@0,0 failed to power up
[11:31:46] <WickedWicky> that doesn't look healthy
[11:32:15] <Teltariat> "failed to power up" is _never_ healthy.
[11:32:42] <Teltariat> I wonder if Solaris should use blinking red text to get that across next time, Wicky :)
[11:32:49] <WickedWicky> well
[11:32:52] <WickedWicky> the cool thing is
[11:33:00] <WickedWicky> the disk works perfect under linux and windows XP
[11:33:12] <WickedWicky> but now I am trying to install SXCE74 (its a laptop)
[11:33:23] <WickedWicky> and i get these messages when booting from the installation CD
[11:33:51] <Teltariat> Thats interesting
[11:34:37] <Teltariat> Maybe Solaris' SMART monitoring is misled...?  Or is it that perhaps you have a "ghost" device at that pci address?  Or maybe Solaris is really right and Linux and Windows are lying to you?
[11:35:14] <WickedWicky> nope
[11:35:21] <WickedWicky> it doesnt find my SATA disk
[11:35:52] <renihs> i wouldnt trust smart too far
[11:36:09] <renihs> without a huge amount of reference data its rather pointless in many cases
[11:39:29] <WickedWicky> when I put the laptop in Legacy IDE mode, the disk does get detected
[11:39:56] <Teltariat> Whats that, an option in your BIOS?
[11:39:59] <WickedWicky> yep
[11:40:17] <Teltariat> <-- runs outdated machines, doesn't even HAVE any SATA devices
[11:40:42] <Teltariat> :( Have pity.
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[11:43:56] <flyingparchment> the S10 kernel patch number changed again?  this is getting silly
[11:49:45] <jteo> Teltariat: i don't have SATA either. that makes 2 of us. ;)
[12:01:33] <Teltariat> Misery loves company
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[12:04:13] <Teltariat> I
[12:04:28] <Teltariat> I'm headed out; enjoy the day, folks
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[12:12:49] <Baltazaar> I have a SXDE 02/07 DVD. Can I install that an have it automatically upgraded to the latest version?
[12:15:13] <palowoda> What does "automatic upgrade" mean?
[12:15:31] <Baltazaar> live update or something?
[12:16:25] <palowoda> Sure if you setup live upgrade.  But why install such an old version of opensolairs to begin with.  Start with the most recent build.
[12:17:16] <Baltazaar> thought was to spare me the download time...
[12:17:34] <palowoda> Modem?
[12:17:45] <dme> There is no 'online' upgrade, so you'll have to download the newer version anyway.
[12:17:48] <Baltazaar> no. 5mbps
[12:18:08] <palowoda> Well damn 5mb isn't that bad.
[12:18:44] <Baltazaar> if it was a torrent, I'd be happy...
[12:19:13] <palowoda> It will never be a torrent because Sun is the only one that can redistribute.
[12:19:52] <Baltazaar> I know. thats where the bottleneck lies. Getting bad transfer rates from their server(s)
[12:20:10] <Baltazaar> downloading now...
[12:20:15] <Baltazaar> opensolaris
[12:20:29] <palowoda> Sun download center needs something to be desired.
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[12:26:37] <palowoda> Baltazaar: Just curious who is ISP or where are you located.  I'm getting about 615K down on a 5mb dsl curcuit right now.  I often wonder if
[12:26:47] <palowoda> this location or isp releated.
[12:27:12] <Baltazaar> When I eventually get to install the version I'm downloading now, is there a package update system in solaris?
[12:27:38] <cmihai> Baltazaar, you should use LiveUpgrade, it's the easiest way to upgrade SXCE releases.
[12:27:43] <Baltazaar> Im in Norway...
[12:27:46] <cmihai> Also, just use SXCE, don't bother with SXDE
[12:27:51] <palowoda> Ah.
[12:28:20] <Baltazaar> getting like 130kb/s
[12:29:04] <cmihai> Baltazaar, here, read this: http://unixsadm.blogspot.com/2007/08/liveupgrade-sxce.html . Make a clean install and make sure you leave room (or create) a /altroot partition so you can LiveUpgrade to the next release.
[12:29:05] <palowoda> Must be the Sun net and how they mirror builds.
[12:29:13] <palowoda> I'm in SF Bay area.
[12:29:26] <cmihai> palowoda, they use akamai from what I've seen.
[12:29:46] <cmihai> So it's pretty much mirrored locally for most people.
[12:29:49] <cmihai> I get 4-5MB/s
[12:30:01] <palowoda> Where are you cmihai?
[12:30:07] <cmihai> Romania
[12:30:12] <Baltazaar> I'm sticking to SXCE. I'll check out that link cmihai
[12:30:29] <cmihai> Baltazaar, SXDE will probably dissapear soon enough anyway.
[12:30:48] <Baltazaar> oh?
[12:30:55] <cmihai> From what I gather.
[12:30:58] <cmihai> It's kind of pointless too.
[12:31:09] <Baltazaar> yeah. it is.
[12:31:20] <Baltazaar> semi stable kinda...
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[12:31:31] <palowoda> I thought Sun was using BNN wasn't aware they used akamai.
[12:31:31] <cmihai> Well, it's the same thing as the SXCE build it came out from.
[12:32:27] <palowoda> And I hate all the stories about SDXE is more stable that SCXE because nobody can define "stable".
[12:33:10] <cmihai> Most people think only SXDE has development tools...
[12:33:13] <cmihai> Or that "it's for developers"
[12:33:21] <palowoda> Like Douglas Hofstedler said; "Define quality"
[12:33:22] <cmihai> That's bullshit, the builds are _identical_
[12:34:32] <palowoda> Every individual has a different definition for quality or stabliity.
[12:35:15] <cmihai> People could say stuff changes less often since SXDE builds come out every couple of months...
[12:35:36] <cmihai> But you could just upgrade every 5-6 SXCE builds... even the ones on par with SXDE for the same result.
[12:35:37] <Baltazaar> how often is the SXCE builds released?
[12:35:51] <palowoda> Every two weeks.
[12:35:56] <Baltazaar> wow
[12:36:09] <palowoda> Give or take a 1/2 week.
[12:36:21] <Baltazaar> active development there...
[12:36:26] <cmihai> And ever 3-4 months a SXCE build becomes a SXDE build.
[12:36:29] <palowoda> Guess what the fixes go into SXCE first.
[12:36:56] <cmihai> So basically, if you stick to SXDE builds, you're simply out of date on features and fixes...
[12:36:58] <palowoda> Those who use SXCE get to poke fun at the DX users and tell them to wait.
[12:38:09] <Baltazaar> but if the one I'm downloading now functions satisfactory, there is no need to rush out for the latest builds all the time...?
[12:38:18] <cmihai> No.
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[12:38:24] <cmihai> Look, just use the latest SXCE
[12:38:28] <cmihai> and upgrade whenever you feel like
[12:38:33] <cmihai> just make sure you read the onnv flag days
[12:38:39] <palowoda> Hey Gman you in the area now?
[12:38:48] <cmihai> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days - this!
[12:38:56] <Gman> palowoda, austin, texas atm
[12:38:59] <cmihai> And LiveUpgrade! That way, you can't break your system :-)(
[12:39:00] <Gman> fly out there this afternoon
[12:39:13] <cmihai> http://xkcd.com/327/
[12:39:45] <palowoda> Just had Alan Duboff, Stefan and Al Hopper over for a barbee.
[12:40:21] <palowoda> Gave them all kinds of ideas how to mess you up. :)
[12:40:28] 
[12:41:33] <Gman> palowoda, heh
[12:41:40] <palowoda> Baltazarr: The normal upgrade seems to save all the important settings.  Which settings are you worried about?
[12:41:51] <cmihai> Baltazaar, much more risky.
[12:41:53] <Gman> palowoda, kkk? kde klux klan? :)
[12:42:01] <cmihai> LiveUpgrade is faster, and you can script most of that stuf. Come on, it's 6 lines ffs
[12:42:32] <Baltazaar> I was thinking in terms of downloaded external apps, their config files etc.
[12:42:47] <palowoda> Gman: Just pull off something good.  I'll catch some fish for you.
[12:42:54] <Gman> deal :)
[12:43:37] <cmihai> Baltazaar, yes, you can. LU and regular Upgrade have similar results. But with LU you can go back to your old env in case shit happens. And you do it live, no need to take the system down. Reboot once you're done (and feel like it)
[12:43:40] <palowoda> Hey just to tease you http://www.fiver.net/misc/gracerock1/gracerock_.flv.html if you have the bandwidth.
[12:44:58] <Baltazaar> Guess LiveUpgrade will be the solution then. Can I delete the /temproot after installing to save space? I mean... 20GB is a lot on a laptop...
[12:45:09] <cmihai> palowoda, is  he suicidal
[12:45:10] <Gman> palowoda, taking a look now
[12:45:30] <palowoda> That is where I said I would take you.
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[12:46:20] <cmihai> Baltazaar, if it goes right, sure. You can use it to store your stuff until you need to LU again.. but mmm...
[12:46:23] <Gman> next spare weekend i get, i'm in
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[13:24:51] <flyingparchment> does sun make a network monitoring system that works with non-Sun systems?  N1 is only Sun hardware, right?
[13:30:30] <PerterB> sunmc (which is one of the components of N1) can monitor non-Sun kit, although it's fairly basic (ping/snmp/testing services are alive)
[13:49:10] <bda> This is hilarious. We have a script that runs df -k on every filesystem it can find. With 80+ ZFS fs and 90-100% busy disks, it takes 2+ minutes.
[13:49:16] <bda> For some value of hilarious, anyway.
[13:54:09] <seanmcg> bda: a df process per filesystem ?
[13:54:48] <bda> I didn't write the thing.
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[13:58:10] <bda> Skipping the read-only volumes (~70 of them) gets it from 2 minutes to 17s. `zfs list` takes about 30s.
[13:58:17] <bda> So I mean, it ain't all that fast anyway.
[13:58:32] <bda> But I've long suspected that our monitoring scripts were murdering performance.
[13:59:18] * bda hugs microstate accounting and dtrace in the face.
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[14:06:23] <solar-star> Hi
[14:06:37] <solar-star> How to get out the vendors name from my devices
[14:07:40] <ofu> usb devices?
[14:07:42] <cmihai> solar-star, http://unixsadm.blogspot.com/2007/08/getting-detailed-system-information-on.html
[14:07:56] <solar-star> Wow.
[14:08:52] <solar-star> Because I need to find out the pci number of my sound device
[14:09:23] <cmihai>  /usr/X11/bin/scanpci
[14:09:41] <solar-star> Ok, I will give it a try now.
[14:11:42] <solar-star> cmihai: Thank you, found it
[14:12:12] <cmihai> no problem
[14:13:58] <solar-star> So next problem
[14:14:27] <solar-star> Driver (audiohd) successfully added to your system but failed to attach
[14:15:27] <solar-star> made $update_drv -a -i '"pci1002,437b"' audiohd
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[14:16:10] <cmihai> Hm
[14:16:11] <cmihai> what release
[14:16:40] <cmihai> SXCE? SXDE? Solaris 10?
[14:16:51] <solar-star> SXDE 09/07
[14:17:03] <cmihai> Hm...
[14:17:10] <cmihai> I can only say, give SXCE 74 a try.
[14:17:13] <cmihai> Do a LiveUpgrade or whatever.
[14:17:33] <solar-star> This problem resist since a long time
[14:18:08] 
[14:18:21] <cmihai> Only one way to find out.
[14:18:30] <cmihai> If that doesn't work, ask on the mailing lists.
[14:18:35] <cmihai> Do give details please.
[14:18:47] <solar-star> Which
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[14:19:02] <cmihai> Like  that scanpci output or something and that error message.
[14:19:13] <cmihai> OpenSolaris: bugs I guess
[14:19:21] <solar-star> Ok
[14:19:46] <cmihai> Why are you using SXDE btw
[14:19:59] <solar-star> Because I am a developer?
[14:20:03] <cmihai> So?
[14:20:09] <cmihai> SXCE has the _exact_ same stuff you know.
[14:20:17] <cmihai> Only... it's more up to date.
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[14:20:41] <solar-star> But without the developer stack I think
[14:20:45] <cmihai> No.
[14:20:50] <cmihai> I said the EXACT same thing.
[14:20:51] <cmihai> It's all there.
[14:21:01] <cmihai> SXDE is just another SXCE build.
[14:21:08] <solar-star> But why they release a SXDE then?
[14:21:10] <cmihai> Ever 3-4 months they pick a SXCE build and call it SXDE.
[14:21:14] <cmihai> solar-star, to comfuse people ;P
[14:21:25] <cmihai> I think they'll drop it soon from what I've heard
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[14:22:01] <cmihai> You're better off with SXCE and LiveUpgrades. See http://unixsadm.blogspot.com/2007/08/liveupgrade-sxce.html
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[14:22:50] <cmihai> solar-star, it's just that every time I ask people why they use SXDE I get a similar answer: they think SXCE doesn't have Sun Studio / Netbeans.
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[14:24:51] <cmihai> Ah well, I think I'll go make some coffee...
[14:25:01] <solar-star> Thank you for your info
[14:25:28] <solar-star> Would you do a complete reinstall?
[14:25:32] <cmihai> Yes.
[14:25:36] <cmihai> Full SETUP + OEM.
[14:25:50] <cmihai> Or you'll spend hours fetching depends\
[14:26:04] <cmihai> And for what? Saving 1-2 GB?
[14:26:09] <cmihai> Storage is cheap.
[14:26:14] <Cyrille> don't forget to add windows, osx and ubuntu on top too ;-)
[14:26:29] <cmihai> Oh, quiet you :-).
[14:26:57] <cmihai> Besides, just having something installed doesn't force you to actually _run_ it. And it's easier to remove stuff later than add them.
[14:27:00] <solar-star> cmihai: is SETUP + OEM an option ?
[14:27:19] <cmihai> "Full Setup + OEM", that's what the option is called if you use the "old" Installer.
[14:27:29] <cmihai> If you use the "developer edition" installer it does that automagically.
[14:27:35] <cmihai> Though the "developer edition" installer sucks.
[14:27:41] <bda> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20071011205044141 # lul
[14:27:44] <cmihai> It gives you less options and has no real advantages.
[14:27:55] <cmihai> You can add the development tools (basically sun studio / netbeans) from the DVD later.
[14:28:30] <solar-star> Where to download SXCE?
[14:29:14] <cmihai> opensolaris.org
[14:29:37] <cmihai> http://opensolaris.org/os/downloads/sol_ex_dvd/ to be more exact.
[14:29:46] <cmihai> That's an auto-magic link that always points to the latest SXCE.
[14:29:56] <cmihai> * (there is a minor delay when they update it)
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[14:31:46] <solar-star> cmihai: did just find it too
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[14:34:03] <solar-star> cmihai: Thank you for your help
[14:34:15] <solar-star> Now I am off
[14:34:28] <solar-star> Downloading ........ and installing ...
[14:34:44] <solar-star> Bye, till Monday
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[14:51:10] <quasi> cmihai: http://opensolaris.org/sxce_dvd works too
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[16:01:51] <rasputnik> trying to snapshot a zfs dataset, I get 'dataset is busy'. anyone know what that means?
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[16:11:22] * Gman wonders how easy it is to get pages from opensolaris.org from the backup archives
[16:12:00] <jteo> wayback machine?
[16:13:48] <bda> Gman: It isn't in a VCS?
[16:14:05] * Gman hopes so
[16:14:19] <bda> :o
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[16:16:51] <rasputnik> ah, a 'umount/mount' fixed it
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[16:31:31] <Downix> hello
[16:34:31] <kjetilho> we're waiting -- do you have anything on your mind?
[16:35:18] <jteo> i'll like to talk about my childhood.
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[16:36:16] <e^ipi_airport> hey... so
[16:36:17] <Downix> I'm just trying to search the OS website to see if it would run on my machine
[16:36:26] <e^ipi_airport> who's at MPK?
[16:37:05] <Cyrille> no, Who's at DUB I think ;-)
[16:37:57] <Downix> so far, no luck
[16:38:12] <e^ipi_airport> seriously though, I need to know how to get there from SFO
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[16:39:20] <elektronkind> e^ipi: it's a straight shot down Rt. 101 from SFO to MPK
[16:39:27] <Gman> e^ipi, dude
[16:39:49] <elektronkind> find the dunbarton bridge on a map
[16:39:57] <elektronkind> it crosses 101 at some point
[16:40:03] <Gman> e^ipi, sara was trying to reach you
[16:40:19] <elektronkind> iirc mpk is on the approach to th dunbarton
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[16:40:45] <e^ipi_airport> Gman: yeah, we got it figgured out
[16:40:52] <Gman> oh, ok. sweet
[16:40:53] <e^ipi_airport> early morning chaos :/
[16:41:18] <e^ipi_airport> so, i'll be flying in to SFO and trying to scam a ride with murdock or foster to SC
[16:41:32] <Gman> ok, cool
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[16:41:42] <Gman> you could either get down to menlo park by train
[16:41:47] <Gman> and get someone to collect you from there
[16:43:00] <e^ipi_airport> the train is at the airport?
[16:43:19] <Gman> yeah
[16:43:20] <Gman> well
[16:43:33] <Gman> you have to get one and change at a station
[16:43:58] <Gman> let me find the name of it
[16:44:12] <e^ipi_airport> do they have a "how to ride public transit" guide?
[16:44:30] <e^ipi_airport> vancouver does, but that's unhelpful in this situation because I already know how to ride vancouver transit
[16:44:34] <Gman> millbrae
[16:44:57] <Gman> get on a train at the airport (you need to get the lightrail connecting them to the parking garage stop i think)
[16:45:05] <Gman> stop at millbrae, continue down to menlo park
[16:45:06] <Gman> i think
[16:45:21] <Gman> then it's a short taxi ride, or lift from there
[16:45:28] <Gman> otherwise it's like $100+ in a taxi
[16:45:28] <sommerfeld> SFO airport?
[16:45:33] <e^ipi_airport> sommerfeld: yes
[16:45:36] <sommerfeld> people mover around the terminal
[16:45:42] <sommerfeld> to the BART station
[16:45:48] <sommerfeld> BART to caltrain
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[16:45:59] <sommerfeld> then caltrain to menlo park or palo alto or some such
[16:46:10] <Gman> i can get my brother to pick you up :)
[16:46:25] <Gman> given that al's decided it was time to take genunix down for maintenance :/
[16:46:30] <Gman> (it's the only number i know)
[16:46:33] <Downix> ok, can't find it anywhere on the site
[16:46:41] <Downix> does OS run on 32-bit SPARC's?
[16:47:05] <Gman> e^ipi, sara said you might arrive the same time as patrick finch, who also planned to get caltrain i think
[16:47:06] <sommerfeld> no.  64-bit only.
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[16:47:14] <Downix> dangit
[16:47:30] <Downix> I have this beautiful old SPARCStation here I want to get using
[16:47:48] <sommerfeld> (bart and caltrain are both heavy rail)
[16:47:52] <|UltraSPARC|> throw an older version of solaris on it
[16:48:05] <Downix> |UltraSPARC|, Guess I have to.  First, to find one  8)
[16:48:32] <|UltraSPARC|> I'm not sure which version supports 32... maybe 2.x
[16:48:40] <Downix> right now it has Debian on it... but a SPARC deserves Solaris.
[16:48:56] <|UltraSPARC|> yea, a real sysv unix is more fun on RISC
[16:49:03] <sommerfeld> solaris ran on sun4m systems up to and including solaris 9
[16:49:29] <|UltraSPARC|> there ya go
[16:49:38] <Downix> I have a SysV on my Commodore workstation
[16:49:39] <|UltraSPARC|> 9 is quite modern
[16:49:42] <Downix> talk about an antique
[16:49:43] <Downix> 8)
[16:50:15] <sommerfeld> e^ipi: the sfo people mover stops are upstairs (~3rd floor-ish) from arrivals and baggage claim.  signage there seems a bit ..uneven.
[16:50:48] <Downix> ok, so 9 will work.  Now to a) find a copy and b) figure out how the heck to get it installed on a machine w/o a CD-ROM
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[16:51:41] <e^ipi_airport> last time i traveled I stopped at SFO for a couple hours
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[16:52:20] <e^ipi_airport> i remember a lot of wandering aimlessly and a little bit of being harassed passing through TSA checkpoints 10 or 15 times
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[16:53:34] <jteo> are those as fun as I've read them to be?
[16:55:10] <sommerfeld> jteo: my experience (mostly flying out of boston) is that the screeners have gotten a lot more professional since they created the TSA.
[16:55:59] <jteo> sommerfeld: that sounds good.
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[16:56:30] <sommerfeld> jteo: one time accidentally left wirecutters in my carryon bag.  screener gave me an envelope and told me where I could buy stamps and where I could find a mailbox.
[16:56:41] <Gman> e^ipi, sfo is an easy airport, there's nothing in it :)
[16:57:03] <jteo> sommerfeld: ah.
[17:00:02] <e^ipi_airport> is sun in the local phonebook?
[17:00:15] <e^ipi_airport> because if push comes to shove I'll point at the address and ask a local how to get there
[17:00:28] <Gman> e^ipi, you'll have no problem
[17:00:43] <Gman> if you get to the menlo park train station, get a taxi, and say 'sun microsystems'
[17:01:08] <seanmcg> Gman: or the shuttle from there too
[17:01:11] <Gman> (network circle if you really need to)
[17:01:20] <Gman> seanmcg, true, though easier just to get a taxi depending on the day
[17:01:31] <Gman> e^ipi, i'll give you my brothers phone number if sara didn't give it to you otherwise
[17:01:37] <Gman> you should consider him your whipping boy :)
[17:01:42] <e^ipi_airport> sara gave me tim&ian's
[17:01:48] <seanmcg> always found getting a taxi in mpk rather difficult.. the lack of them
[17:02:30] <e^ipi_airport> Gman: does your brother have a name, or should I just ask for "glynn's brother"
[17:02:32] <sommerfeld> they'll probably be more likely to recognize "sun microsystems" than "network circle" (since "network circle" is the road that runs around the outside of the parking lot inside the hedge/fence at the edge of the campus
[17:02:37] <e^ipi_airport> I can do that, it'd be entertaining
[17:02:38] <Gman> e^ipi, tim
[17:02:45] <e^ipi_airport> oh
[17:02:51] <e^ipi_airport> i didn't know tim was your brother
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[17:03:15] <jteo> intriguing
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[17:05:26] <Downix> You know, finding Solaris9 was easy
[17:05:31] <Downix> free download from Sun's website
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[17:05:41] <Downix> now to get a SCSI cord to plug up my CD-ROM unit
[17:06:20] *** piwi has joined #opensolaris
[17:06:33] <elektronkind> woop
[17:06:42] <Downix> and find where I put my SCSI CD-ROM
[17:08:04] <e^ipi_airport> so... just to recap i'll catch the southbound bart to millbrae and catch the caltrain? or ?
[17:08:30] <Gman> e^ipi_airport, yeah, you can always confirm at the station - there will be people around
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[17:09:03] <Gman> timsf, pick up e^pi when he calls ;)
[17:09:06] <timsf> hey folks
[17:09:11] <timsf> wuh?
[17:09:26] <e^ipi_airport> timsf: early morning chaos
[17:09:34] <e^ipi_airport> you're evidently picking me up at MPK
[17:09:43] <e^ipi_airport> or ian if you're unwilling
[17:09:52] <Gman> timsf, morning! :)
[17:10:03] <timsf> I'll bring whoever'll fit in my (horrendous) rental car.
[17:10:27] <timsf> Definitely room for one - so you can fight it out: 2 falls, 2 submissions or a knockout, I reckon.
[17:10:30] <timsf> :-)
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[17:10:54] <e^ipi_airport> heh, sweet
[17:11:09] <e^ipi_airport> can you bet against yourself? if so, $100 on not-me
[17:11:30] <Downix> ok, Vista is ticking me off
[17:11:38] <Downix> file access causes system lock
[17:12:08] <timsf> No problemo e^ipi_airport - are you getting to MPK17 with Patrick & Petr ?
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[17:12:26] <e^ipi_airport> I don't know... this plan is new as of a half hour ago
[17:12:42] <e^ipi_airport> sara told me to head to MPK18 because that's where ian's likely to be
[17:12:49] <e^ipi_airport> and you were still asleep
[17:12:54] <e^ipi_airport> or something
[17:13:01] <timsf>  (probably wasn't asleep - damn jet lag.)
[17:13:12] <Downix> I'm still curious how Solaris is compared to Linux, BSD or my old AMIX system
[17:13:14] <timsf> but sure - have you got my mobile number ?
[17:13:23] <e^ipi_airport> i think so
[17:13:35] <e^ipi_airport> long international number ?
[17:13:54] <timsf> +353861209236
[17:14:10] * sommerfeld wonders how many random calls tim's going to get
[17:14:20] <seanmcg> now the world has Tim's number to ring him for opensolaris support :)
[17:14:24] <timsf> Danek had the right idea
[17:15:17] <Gman> e^ipi, make sure you get a tour around mpk
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[17:15:53] <timsf> 1800-HELP-ME-TIM
[17:16:19] <timsf> That'd be the blind leading the blind in my case - damn MPK17 maze. I wonder what's at the centre ?
[17:16:36] <Gman> go into ebc
[17:16:48] <Gman> at least you can play with stuff there ;)
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[17:18:04] <GmanAFK> e^ipi, good luck getting to mpk
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[17:38:38] <hallu> this is not exactly a Solaris question, but there are a lot of gurus here, so I'll ask anyway: Given an Cisco PIX 520, which PIX version should I load on it? 7.0.1, 7.0.2, 7.0.5, 7.1.1 or 7.1.2?
[17:39:21] <madhatter> How can I re-use my old boot environment? I have two now and the first contains grub? I thought I just create a new env with the old name to overwrite it, but that does not work ;)
[17:41:11] <sommerfeld> hallu: port opensolaris to the pix hardware and run ipfilter instead :-)
[17:41:22] <hallu> sommerfeld: :D
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[17:42:36] <hallu> no the thing is that I don't trust PIX, and will either way have a OpenSolaris running IPF behind it, doing some routing and filtering, but I just want to get somekind of handle of how Cisco gear works
[17:43:20] <flyingparchment> hallu: with cisco, you usually want the most current version of the software train you're using.. if it has critical bugs, downgrade until you find a working one
[17:43:25] <flyingparchment> (i'm not familiar with fix though)
[17:43:35] <flyingparchment> er, pix
[17:43:54] <hallu> ok
[17:43:59] <hallu> I'll try that :)
[17:44:11] <sommerfeld> hallu: one datapoint (possibly stale) i've heard about the PIX is that it isn't typical of cisco gear.
[17:45:30] <hallu> sommerfeld: yeah I think the 520 is a glorified PC basically that costs a fortune, which runs some strange operating system designed to filter packets, if that's what you meant?
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[17:45:41] <hallu> I think the 520 has a 300MHz AMD K6
[17:45:46] <hallu> or something like that
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[17:48:45] <Downix> hallu:  The CPU does not make a PC.  I have a K6 that can run circles around my first-gen Athlon here, but it's system architecture is radically different.
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[17:49:58] <flyingparchment> i think some of the pixes have hardware crypto cards
[17:50:22] <hallu> Downix: I know, I was just pointing out that the PIX is most likely very similar to a PC architecturewise
[17:50:34] <hallu> but that's just what I assume
[17:50:35] <Downix> hallu;  I don't know the PIX so I can't comment.
[17:50:58] <Downix> just poinging out that just because it's an x86 CPU doesn't mean it's a PC
[17:51:13] <Downix> then again, just because it's a PPC, SPARC, whatever CPU doesn't mean it's not a PC architecture
[17:51:18] <hallu> Downix: the routers also run "PC" processors like MIPS, but they are far from normal computer architecture
[17:51:25] <Downix> right
[17:51:27] <Downix> 8)
[17:51:54] <Downix> I like different architectures.  Don't like the CPU-centric approach in a PC
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[17:52:12] <hallu> no you see the thing is, if you have mad Solaris skills, and mad Cisco skills you can ask whatever you want as your wage and companies will pay :D
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[17:52:40] <Downix> *laughs*
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[17:52:49] <hallu> Downix: any pointers to different kinds of architectures? Any names I could search on google with?
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[17:53:17] <|UltraSPARC|> there are processor architectures and there are platforms
[17:53:23] <Downix> hallu:  I'm most familiar with the old Amiga, personally.
[17:54:14] <hallu> Downix: you said there was some architecture with a K6 that did some specific task a lot faster than a general purpose Athlon class machine would have?
[17:54:49] <Downix> hallu:  network task IIRC.  I only delt with it once, some Taiwanese board.
[17:55:14] <Downix> had 18 of what looked like token-ring ports on the back.
[17:55:14] <|UltraSPARC|> if it had a DSP or additional processing units for the particular task, of course it could outperform it
[17:55:22] <|UltraSPARC|> but it wouldn't have a chance against it in integer or floating point
[17:55:29] <|UltraSPARC|> then again, it wouldn't be doing that
[17:55:32] <Downix> |UltraSPARC|, Quite right.
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[18:00:49] <hallu> hmm DSP's, reminds me of the 90's when I last did some DSP coding on Xilinx FPGA's. Somehow I think it was the Spartan-I chip particulary that we developed on
[18:01:00] <hallu> they wanted an ASIC run made of the design then
[18:01:02] <Downix> I use Spartan's for my FPGA work
[18:01:59] <hallu> yeah, I have a few Spartan-III's sitting on my electronics bench
[18:02:32] <hallu> but the sad thing is that I've forgoten most of my Verilog skills, and don't have the time to read the book I bought on the subject :)
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[18:02:54] <hallu> Downix: do you use Xilinx ISE WebPack?
[18:03:54] <Downix> Yup, it's fun
[18:04:06] <hallu> and do you design your own PCB's, or do you use protoboards, I think there was a company named Digilent that sold for $99 a Spartan-III development board
[18:04:14] <Downix> I have three Spartan II's I use to test portions of a design.  Saving up for a Virtex 5 to put them all together
[18:04:24] <Downix> I do my own PCB's
[18:04:34] <Downix> theyre not that expensive
[18:04:50] <hallu> no, you're right :)
[18:05:10] <hallu> but it's been a decade since I last etched a PCB :D
[18:05:40] <hallu> and I have thrown away my soldering aparature to solder the FPGA's or PIC's or whatever on to the board
[18:06:22] <hallu> my wife would kill me if I started tinkering with DSP designs again :)
[18:10:39] <Downix> *nods*
[18:10:46] <hallu> Downix: how many gates does a Virtex 5 have?
[18:10:51] <Downix> Millions
[18:11:05] <hallu> (I'm not familiar with current happenings in the FPGA field)
[18:11:10] <hallu> Downix: my god
[18:11:28] <hallu> Downix: you can do whatever you like with one of those then :D
[18:11:37] <Downix> in theory
[18:11:38] <hallu> how much do they cost?
[18:12:23] <Downix> too much for anything but low-volume high-profit
[18:12:28] <hallu> I thought that the Spartan-III with 400k gates was a very large FPGA :D
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[18:12:39] <Downix> Spartan III's are more reasonable, and they do get into the millions as well
[18:12:52] <Downix> the Virtex tho, is faster in my experience
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[18:13:28] <hallu> let's say I want to play around with an FPGA, how much should I put down for an Virtex 5?
[18:13:40] <Downix> a few hundred to a few thousand
[18:13:59] <Downix> I'd recommend the Spartan III more to anyone wanting to just play around
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[18:14:32] <hallu> ok, that's out of my price range then :)
[18:15:04] <Downix> the 1.5 million gate Spartan III is $85 last time I checked
[18:15:11] <Downix> far more reasonable
[18:15:14] <hallu> yeah, they are cheap
[18:15:27] <Downix> I need a Virtex for my design because of what it is
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[18:15:38] <hallu> but as I said, I have no soldering machinery here :(
[18:15:47] <hallu> Downix: you're an embedded designer?
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[18:16:11] <hallu> or engineer or whatever :)
[18:16:21] <Downix> hardly, just tinker
[18:16:37] <hallu> yeah, everybody needs an hobby
[18:17:00] <Downix> of course my hobby is in trying to make a new amiga-style system architecture *shrug*
[18:17:03] <hallu> Downix: but I still can't understand what you are about to do with a FPGA with a few million gates :D
[18:17:39] <hallu> Downix: I'd imagine you could implement most things in an amiga architecture with cheaper chips than the Virtex 5
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[18:17:50] <Downix> depends on what you pair it up to
[18:18:02] <Downix> the Amiga's chipset, paired to a 68000, was over 800,000 transistors
[18:18:15] <Downix> scary when the chipset has 10x as many transistors as the CPU did
[18:18:35] <Downix> trying to impliment something similar paired up to, say, an S1 SPARC....
[18:18:43] <hallu> I know nothing about amiga, unfortunately :|
[18:19:18] <hallu> Downix: how does the amiga arch differ from my PC arch?
[18:19:21] <Downix> beautiful machines, mainframe-style architecture scaled down to the desktop.  The individual CPU wasn't the beefiest, but the system responded for media-centric tasks.
[18:19:52] <Downix> your PC is CPU-driven, something wants access to the memory, like your HD, the CPU has to handle it.  DMA can speed it up, but the CPU starts and stops the process
[18:19:53] <hallu> yeah, the 68000 is not particulary fast in any way :)
[18:20:11] <hallu> I've done embedded work with motorolas chips....
[18:20:20] <Downix> in the Amiga, the RAM was double-accessed.  CPU had it 50% of the time, the chipset the other 50%, handled it all independently of the processor
[18:20:32] <hallu> I see
[18:21:26] <Downix> so, audio, video and UART I/O all had their own access
[18:22:12] <Downix> in addition, the Amiga's chipset's memory manipulator, it's blitter, was closer in design to a Crey vector processor than a DSP or traditional blitter
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[18:23:00] <Downix> but, as with any good design, corporate interests killed off development to save a buck, and it died off.
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[18:24:04] <Downix> still, a facinating design, and I'm curious to see if it could be evolved, even if only for my own curiosity
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[18:24:57] <hallu> hmm, I just went down to the basement and there was an Amiga 1200 (I think atleast), with a PowerPC accelerator card
[18:25:17] <hallu> I bought it to play games, thought I had thrown it out already
[18:25:23] <hallu> no time for games :)
[18:25:24] <Downix> good machine
[18:26:26] <Downix> but the included OS doesn't support the PPC card
[18:26:31] <Downix> try this upgrade: http://powerup.morphos-team.net/
[18:28:44] <Downix> complete clone of the OS, but designed to run on the PowerPC card instead
[18:28:55] <Downix> I still think PowerPC was the wrong direction for them
[18:28:56] <Downix> ah well
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[18:34:56] <Downix> anyhow, really off the topic of Solaris....
[18:34:56] <Downix> 8)
[18:35:24] <bda> Seems kinda odd that CSK's php is compiled against SUNWmysql instead of CSKmysql.
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[18:36:39] <hallu> Downix: :)
[18:37:03] <Downix> Now I just wish I could get this SPARC to run halfway decently
[18:37:36] <hallu> you have a SPARC design on fpga?
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[18:38:18] <Downix> hallu:  no, my SPARCStation.  Altho you can put a SPARC into an FPGA (and I'd like to someday).  Both the Leon and the UltraSPARC T1 are available in source-form to allow you to do that
[18:38:52] <hallu> If you code a Forth interpreter in Verilog (or if you use VHDL, then in that), you could pull off the firmware of a SPARCstation
[18:39:13] <hallu> T1 in FPGA
[18:39:21] <hallu> isn't it like an insane processor?
[18:39:24] <Downix> http://www.opensparc.net  and yup
[18:39:45] <hallu> ok, now I understand what you need the Virtex 5 for :)
[18:39:54] <Downix> it wouldn't fit into a virtex 5
[18:40:09] <Downix> could fit two of it's pipes into one tho
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[18:40:34] <oxygene> hallu: what would the sparcstation firmware help for a forth interpreter in verilog?
[18:40:47] <hallu> hmm, what are the specs of a T1, btw.? How does it compare to the latest Intel/AMD offerings?
[18:40:55] <Downix> oxygene:  The SPARCStations firmware is written in Forth
[18:41:00] <oxygene> hallu: "slow but parallel"
[18:41:16] <Downix> hallu:  8 cores, each one able to run 4 threads simultaneously.
[18:41:29] <Downix> oxygene:  indeed, but makes it less expensive to produce in theory that way
[18:41:34] <oxygene> Downix: it's not -the firmware contains a sparc-based forth interpreter (or something close to it) for ieee1275
[18:41:39] <hallu> but only one FP unit if I have understod correctly
[18:41:46] <Downix> hallu:  right.
[18:41:56] <Downix> oxygene, well, I knew forth was in there somewhere.
[18:42:42] <timsf> The N2s are better in that respect, an fpu per core iirc.
[18:42:49] <oxygene> timsf: yes
[18:43:00] <timsf> Numbers & stuff (if that's your thing) at http://blogs.sun.com/bmseer/
[18:43:24] <Downix> The N2's supposed to be open-sourced as well
[18:43:31] <Downix> I'd be curious to see that
[18:44:24] <hallu> are they trying to get some other companies as well to use SPARC?
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[18:45:32] <asarch> Hey guys, this morning I try to use the OpenSolaris partition I get this at boot: http://pastebin.ca/734333
[18:46:11] <Downix> hallu:  SPARC's an open standard, several companies already make SPARC CPU's.
[18:46:51] <asarch> svc.configd exited with status 102 (database initialization failure)
[18:47:03] <asarch> What is it for the svc's database?
[18:47:13] <hallu> yeah I know that, but thought it was only for older SPARC chips, that Sun didn't make them an open standard for their latest offerings
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[18:47:48] <hallu> Downix: I have a SPARCstation 20 hybrid that has some processors produced by samsung or something like that
[18:47:56] <timsf> asarch, what's your question - the stuff you've pasted tells you how to get your system back on it's LRFs...
[18:47:57] <hallu> or was it a company named ROSS?
[18:48:24] <RElling> Ross was bought by Fujitsu, IIRC
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[18:48:55] <asarch> LRFs?
[18:49:13] <timsf> (Little Rubber Feet)
[18:49:20] <hallu> well anyways, is the Sun SPARCstation 20 with two hypersparc cpu's and 384MB ram the fastest sun4m machine there is?
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[18:49:41] <asarch> Why this happend (the broken database)?
[18:50:00] <asarch> And why is so important for the system (the database):
[18:50:02] <asarch> ?
[18:50:03] <RElling> hallu: yes, at least for general workloads
[18:50:28] <timsf> It's the smf configuration database, it contains information about all the services that should be started on boot.
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[18:50:54] <timsf>  - you know, like networking, filesystems - things like that. That database getting broken is pretty severe.
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[18:51:05] <timsf> but there's ample ways to recover, as the message tells you.
[18:51:50] <asarch> Ok
[18:51:57] <asarch> I'll try it
[18:52:00] <asarch> ... :(
[18:53:17] <timsf> Looks like an old OS - is it opensolaris ?
[18:53:41] <timsf>  (I can't find the typo "The database migth be damaged" in the current source, or back as far as June 2005)
[18:54:48] <asarch> SXCE
[18:54:56] <timsf> Weird.
[18:55:18] <asarch> Can I have multiple versions of Solaris installed on my HDD?
[18:55:52] <oxygene> timsf: probably an imported string from sqlite?
[18:56:13] <timsf> Nah, it's a message in the code
[18:56:19] <timsf> http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/cmd/svc/configd/backend.c
[18:56:43] <timsf> asarch, yes you can have multiple versions of Solaris installed.
[18:57:07] <asarch> Cool
[18:57:25] <timsf> I agree :-)
[18:57:44] <asarch> I thought this error was for that
[18:57:56] <asarch> I installed SXDE, SXCE, Solaris 10
[18:58:04] <asarch> With a little hack on fdisk
[19:00:49] <Downix> My SPARCStation 10 has SPARC's made by Ross.
[19:01:04] <Downix> Hmm, I think so hallu
[19:01:27] <Downix> I am sick of Linux crapping out on it.
[19:01:37] <hallu> ok, I made a pretty good deal then at the finnish equivalent of eBay, I paid 20e for that machine :)
[19:01:49] <hallu> too bad it will only run Solaris 2.9
[19:02:18] <hallu> or is it SunOS 9?
[19:02:23] <hallu> I'm a bit confused
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[19:03:11] <RElling> Solaris 9 contains SunOS 5.9, how can that be confusing?
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[19:03:38] <sickness> is there a way to see which process is writing to the disk?
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[19:03:48] <flyingparchment> sickness: iotop from dtracetoolkit
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[19:04:12] <Downix> hallu:  about the same as I paid.  My only real issue is the lack of a CD-ROM to install Solaris off of
[19:04:16] <flyingparchment> hallu: there's no such thing as solaris 2.9.  sunos 5.9 = solaris 9
[19:04:34] <flyingparchment> 2.0 .. 2.6, 7 .. 10
[19:06:28] <Downix> Hmm
[19:06:37] <Downix> how good is QEMU's Solaris support?
[19:06:45] <flyingparchment> Downix: fine, kqemu is supported
[19:06:56] <Downix> could I install Solaris using it onto a real HD and then put that into my SPARC?
[19:07:13] <flyingparchment> oh, you want to emulate sparc.. i don't think that's so well developed
[19:07:18] <Downix> ok
[19:07:24] <flyingparchment> what are you trying to do?
[19:07:33] <Downix> I'm trying to figure out how to get this SS up and running.  It lacks a CD-ROM drive
[19:07:36] <sickness> flyingparchment: tnx :)))
[19:07:41] <flyingparchment> Downix: jumpstart?
[19:07:49] <Downix> hrm?
[19:07:54] <flyingparchment> network installation
[19:08:36] <Downix> never done that before, honestly
[19:08:46] <flyingparchment> it's easy.  see the install guide at docs.sun.com
[19:10:04] <Downix> ok
[19:10:08] <Downix> I'll try that tonight
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[19:11:58] <Downix> or... I could right now as I have a Linux server at work, hey!
[19:13:26] <Downix> it'll only be Solaris 9, but still
[19:13:32] <Downix> Hmm
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[19:14:12] <Downix> that has me thinking tho, would it be possible to take the T1's source and cut it down to fit into an FPGA and fit up to the MBus?  Likely more work than it would be worth.
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[19:15:02] <Downix> ok, my mind goes too far
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[19:15:13] <Downix> **finishes his download of Solaris9
[19:15:23] <Downix> still shocked that it's available for download from Sun
[19:15:46] <Fish> hello
[19:15:59] <sommerfeld> Downix: other people have mused about doing that sort of thing.  if it can't be done now, someone will eventually build a big enough FPGA ...
[19:16:23] <cmihai> Downix, it's been available for years mate...
[19:16:38] <Downix> sommerfeld, It can be done, just not cost-effectively.  Say a dual-core t1-derived setup would fit into a Virtex 5 running at 550Mhz, roughly.
[19:16:59] <Downix> cmihai, I took a few years off after the dot-bomb I was with, well, dot-bombed
[19:17:35] <jteo> i presume you got out with some money.
[19:17:43] <Downix> they still owe me thousands
[19:18:00] <Downix> thankfully it's *only* thousands
[19:18:10] <jteo> ah.
[19:18:12] <oxygene> well, that implies they still exist
[19:18:23] <madhatter> Who can help me with my live upgrade boot environments? How can I delete an old BE or replace it with a new one?
[19:18:52] <Downix> oxygene, Depends on how you define them.  They were masters of shell companies
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[19:19:18] <cub-> I need patch 114974-01, but I'm on solaris 10 and the patch is for solaris 9.  How do I find the corresponding patch for solaris 10 ?
[19:19:25] <sommerfeld> Downix: the cost effectiveness depends on what you want to use it for.  If, say, you're teaching a course on processor design...
[19:19:27] <alanc> oh no!   nrubsig is in the building!   must hide....
[19:19:30] <alanc> 8-)
[19:19:55] <Downix> sommerfeld, Quite true.  But in that case, would you really use an mBus machine for the host?
[19:20:10] <sommerfeld> ah, sorry, wasn't specific to mbus.
[19:20:34] <sommerfeld> more about "run the ultrasparc T1 verilog code in an fpga"
[19:20:50] <Downix> sommerfeld, Was musing idly about cutting it down to put into this machine to get a 64-bit CPU
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[19:21:01] <sommerfeld> madhatter: ludelete isn't working for you?
[19:21:12] <Downix> sommerfeld, They've already put a cut-down T1 into an FPGA, the S1 for instance.  Runs nicely too
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[19:22:14] <sommerfeld> madhatter: to ping-pong between two BE's, use lumake (copy current to alternate) followed by luupgrade
[19:22:31] <sommerfeld> (and lurename if your BE names reflect what's installed in them)
[19:23:20] <Downix> oxygene:  The CEO closed up shop, moved countries, and started it over again.
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[19:26:56] <hallu> Downix: from where did you get the quote for a 1,4M gate spartan-3 chip?
[19:27:20] <Downix> hallu: can't recall off the top of my head, I think Nu Horizons but not 100% sure
[19:27:33] <Downix> it might be the 1.5 million transistor chip now that I think of it
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[19:27:59] <timsf> hi Gman
[19:28:10] <Gman> hey
[19:28:15] <timsf> You in SFO yet?
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[19:29:36] <sommerfeld> Downix: my friend Rich worked briefly for a startup which had bought out the technology of a failed startup that my former officemate Mike had worked on.  said startup owed Mike quite a bit of money.  I figured this out after Rich started asking me for advice about a problem, and described a business model which sounded an awful lot like the startup Mike had joined.  I asked him to look for Mike's name in the codebase they were brin
[19:29:36] <sommerfeld> ging out of mothballs.  He found it...  and left shortly thereafter.
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[19:30:11] <Downix> sommerfeld:  good for him.  Too many dishonest folk out there
[19:30:43] <Downix> sommerfeld, If you ever want to really laugh, you should read up on what the new Amiga Inc corp has done
[19:30:55] <Gman> timsf, leaving for the airport in about an hour
[19:30:56] <Downix> or cry, for that matter
[19:31:10] <timsf> aah - what time are you due in
[19:31:11] <timsf> ?
[19:31:36] <Gman> lemme check
[19:31:59] <Gman> 16:55 at san jose
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[19:36:52] <Downix> sommerfeld, can you tell me the logic of buying up an IP portfolio which happens to have a small but viable user base, then deciding as your first act to scrap everything you just bought except for the name, breaking the equipment needed to manufacture, and trying to make a better Java than Sun?
[19:37:21] <jteo> ambition?
[19:37:24] <sommerfeld> wow.
[19:38:24] <Downix> sommerfeld, of course, utilizing a third parties technology to do this without checking on the viability of the third party, which when that party goes bankrupt resulting in 4 years of work being thrown out the window....
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[19:38:57] <Downix> sommerfeld, in short, making every mistake imagineable
[19:39:36] <Downix> and fun, I cant' download the 2nd CD of Solaris 9 because the downloader crashed, resulting in it over-fetching the file, and Sun thereby says maximum number of attempts reached.
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[19:40:15] <Downix> ok, got it now
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[19:42:49] <sleepcat> join #solaris
[19:44:15] <Downix> sommerfeld, And, for fun, they were handed the tools for a viable product on several occasions, ranging from new hardware to run on, to even a full port to commodity PC hardware, and they just threatened people instead.  It was quite funny.  (The company I worked for was one of the guys they threatened)
[19:45:09] <Downix> ah well
[19:46:31] <Downix> I'd just be happy to get this SPARC running
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[19:51:17] <sleepcat> i'm having trouble setting ORACLE_HOME and ORACLE_SID
[19:51:18] <sleepcat> in ksh
[19:51:49] <sleepcat> it should be : set $ORACLE_HOME=/oracle/10g
[19:51:58] <stevel> no it shouldn't
[19:51:59] <sleepcat> then: export $ORACLE_HOME
[19:52:02] <rootard> With a $?
[19:52:03] <stevel> ORACLE_HOME=/oracle/10g
[19:52:06] <stevel> export ORACLE_HOME
[19:52:12] <stevel> drop the $
[19:53:12] <nachox> or just export ORACLE_HOME=/oracle/10g
[19:53:12] <sleepcat> when i do that and do an "echo $ORACLE_HOME", i get a blank result...
[19:53:53] <nachox> then you did something wrong :)
[19:54:16] <sleepcat> what could that be though....
[19:55:05] <sleepcat> maybe I'll reinstall oracle again...
[19:55:12] <sleepcat> but reinstalling doesn't seem to help
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[19:55:36] <nachox> i doubt reinstalling will help at all
[19:56:00] <stevel> reinstalling probably won't help you set a shell variable
[19:56:05] <nachox> what does export return? dont paste it here
[19:56:44] <nachox> stevel: shh! no solaris for you, you joined the enemy linux forces ;)
[19:56:58] <stevel> no i didn't :)
[19:57:13] <nachox> ....
[19:57:17] <nachox> heh
[19:57:18] <sleepcat> it returns a blank line
[19:57:38] <Downix> hey, I'm trying to go from Linux to Solaris here, does that count
[19:57:39] <Downix> 8)
[19:58:41] <sleepcat> i changed from ksh to csh and it works!
[19:58:43] <sleepcat> ksh is broken
[19:58:55] <nachox> blame roland :)
[20:00:10] <jteo> true
[20:00:44] <sleepcat> when I do a setenv ORACLE_SID=orcl
[20:00:57] <sleepcat> and then I do an echo $ORACLE_SID
[20:01:04] <sleepcat> I get : orcl=
[20:01:13] <sleepcat> why the equal sign?
[20:02:55] <nachox>  because you dont need the = sign you need a space
[20:03:11] <nachox> it's setenv ORACLE_SID orcl
[20:03:33] <sleepcat> then why did the equal sign work when I set the ORACLE_HOME?
[20:03:42] <nachox> god knows :)
[20:04:08] <cmihai> sleepcat, you are using Bourne syntax in the C shell and C Shell syntax in a bourne shell mate
[20:04:11] <cmihai> No wonder it fails.
[20:04:28] <nachox> in any case, i'm off, it's friday!!
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[20:04:43] <cmihai> For the Bourne shell, use "VARIABLE=value; export VARIABLE", and for the csh use "setenv VARIABLE value". Read your shell's manpage.
[20:06:15] <myrkraverk> trying to download latest wine from blastwave, I get 403
[20:06:22] <myrkraverk> is there anyone here who can fix that?
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[20:21:00] <maxpil> i have a question about zones, is the sysidcfg supposed to populate /etc/resolv.conf on zone boot?
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[20:22:09] <jbk> afternoon
[20:22:26] <sleepcat> well my em is up
[20:22:31] <sleepcat> my listener is down
[20:22:46] <sleepcat> my agent connection instance is down
[20:23:00] <sleepcat> and my database instance is down
[20:25:01] <jbk> well it's progress :)
[20:25:04] <jbk> dbstart didn't work?
[20:26:48] <jbk> hmm strange
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[20:27:10] <jbk> why does src.opensolaris.org not show the libdisasm code...
[20:27:14] <sleepcat> dbstart starts
[20:27:22] <sleepcat> then when i go to em everything is down
[20:27:32] <sleepcat> god oracle is hard
[20:27:56] <sleepcat> i followed all the directions and they don't work.  it really tests your googling skillz
[20:27:57] <alanc> there was mail yesterday about the hg repository -> src.opensolaris.org website not updating a bunch of repositories properly
[20:28:15] <jbk> hmm.. now it is...
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[21:05:57] <hsn_> i hope GPL Solaris will never happen
[21:08:24] <galt> !seen useful license
[21:08:51] <galt> drone, you're sellping on the job!
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[21:09:32] <rubymonk> hsn_, What license solaris uses right now ?
[21:10:02] <galt> please don't tell me you have no idea what license you agreed to
[21:10:25] *** galt is now known as g4lt-mordant
[21:12:58] <rubymonk> And ? I almost live in the jungle somewhere deep inside Brazil, I have no money and only use opensolaris for fun... Come, find me and sue me. :) No, I did not read that attorney's piece of crap and certainly will not waste my time on it...
[21:13:38] <rubymonk> My lack of money is already a nice protection against anything... you can't suck a rock...
[21:13:47] <rubymonk> :)
[21:14:31] <g4lt-mordant> then why do you care now what license it's under?
[21:14:59] <g4lt-mordant> and more importantly, what is preventing you from trotting over to oipensolaris.org and finding out yourself?
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[21:16:12] <elektronkind> rubymonk: This info is easily findable
[21:16:17] <rubymonk> I just got curious as you told about it, otherwise, I don't care, about going to the site, my curiosity doesn't get to this point.
[21:16:27] <elektronkind> the answer is right there on the main FAQ
[21:16:28] <elektronkind> http://opensolaris.org/os/about/faq/general_faq/
[21:16:43] <rubymonk> Now, Let's forget about this, nevermind, I only asked for a word, I only got agressive answers
[21:16:44] <rubymonk> bye
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[21:17:09] <elektronkind> crocadile tears
[21:17:55] <g4lt-mordant> was my first comment THAT hostile?  "please don't tell me you have no idea what license you agreed to"
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[21:19:37] <rootard> clear
[21:19:57] * rootard wishes there was ^H for IRC
[21:20:38] <g4lt-mordant> rootard, ann all that would do is have a lot of lines with H on them ;P
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[21:22:23] <rootard> hmm, I guess you are right... but it still might be better sometimes.
[21:22:48] <asyd> rootard: ^H ?
[21:23:18] <g4lt-mordant> asyd, DEL
[21:23:30] <asyd> ahh
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[21:57:49] <BadKarma> ;)
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[22:08:36] <dsch04> Evening all
[22:09:15] <dsch04> I'm currently investigating using OpenSolaris to provide NAS services on my home LAN, primarily because of ZFS
[22:10:20] <dsch04> I've grabbed the install_check image (v1.3) and booted it on one of the pieces of kit on which I want to run OpenSolaris.
[22:10:41] <dsch04> It chugs away for a while, then I see this scrolling up the screen:
[22:11:25] <dsch04> NOTICE: /pci@0,0/pci8086,2944@1c,2/pci1933,125@0/pci11ab,11aba1:
[22:11:33] <dsch04>  port 2: link established
[22:11:40] <dsch04> This appears many times
[22:12:01] <dsch04> Ooooh, we're onto port 3 now
[22:12:26] <dsch04> AM I right in thinking that the install_check process takes a *looooong* time to run?
[22:13:06] <g4lt-mordant> do it on a v880, and bring a fgood book
[22:13:37] <dsch04> So, that's a "yes" then? :)
[22:14:48] <h3sp4wn> Is there a properly supported (like 3ware is for linux) $200 or so sata hardware raid card for opensolaris
[22:15:45] <g4lt-mordant> h3sp4wn, have you looked in th HCL?
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[22:25:34] <h3sp4wn> g4lt-mordant: I have yes however its not so simple as with it being hardware raid the os would just see a single drive so it could be considered supported or working
[22:26:09] <h3sp4wn> but I want to be able to check the status from the os
[22:26:16] <quasi> h3sp4wn: there's a $100 8 port one
[22:26:21] <g4lt-mordant> no, you're making assumptions about the HCL that are clearly not the case.  if it's listed as supported, it is
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[22:26:52] <quasi> h3sp4wn: Supermicro 8-Port SATA Card - (AOC-SAT2-MV8)
[22:27:19] <h3sp4wn> quasi: great thanks
[22:27:52] <quasi> still, checking the hcl is not a bad idea
[22:29:16] <h3sp4wn> g4lt-mordant: If its not submitted by Sun that there is no guarantees about anything
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[22:39:37] <dsch04> I have that Supermicro card
[22:39:48] <dsch04> In fact, I have two, on two different machines
[22:40:10] <dsch04> But I've not installed OpenSolaris on either of them yet
[22:40:49] <dsch04> It's not a RAID card - it's a 8-port SATA card, PCI-X
[22:42:19] <quasi> which is what you'd want for zfs - raid only makes things more complicated
[22:42:27] <SplasPood> Hrm..  I've got an X4500 running U4 that seems to be having some sort of FS/IO issues.   I've got a number of scp processes hanging around that won't die, /sbin/sync is hanging, rm of a file off one of my zfs vols is hanging...   and yet no log shows anything, zpool status looks good...  any suggestions?
[22:44:34] <SplasPood> yep, and a scrub hangs as well
[22:44:49] <quasi> SplasPood: it might be worth doing a savecore to get a system dump for later debugging
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[22:54:02] <SplasPood> well savecore at least didn't hang ;)
[22:54:11] <SplasPood> anything else I can check before I just power cycle?
[22:54:32] <SplasPood> it seemed to have started while doing a very rapid transfer.. was going great for a bit then it just stalled out, and from then on...
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[22:55:16] <SplasPood> I try to truss one of these hanging scp processes and it gives me truss: unanticipated system error: 2193
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[22:59:23] <quasi> ouch
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[23:03:26] <dsch04> quasi, Not disagreeing.
[23:03:29] <SplasPood> quasi: yea ouch is right..  I'm just thankful that this is not a production machine
[23:03:41] <HCoyote> is there a command to tell if a specific device within a zpool is failing?  I'm experiencing some weird problems on my x4500 where reboot hangs up and I think it's related to zfs.
[23:04:45] <HCoyote> that and my attempts to zfs destroy one of the file systems is hanging.
[23:04:45] <quasi> HCoyote: zpool status
[23:04:53] <HCoyote> quasi:  status is showing ok.
[23:05:14] <quasi> HCoyote: you could try iostat -E
[23:05:30] <SplasPood> HCoyote: hrm, I have a similar sounding issue
[23:05:46] <SplasPood> ahh iostat -E shows a bunch of stuff
[23:06:52] <SplasPood> hrm oh, it just enumerates all the disks
[23:07:09] <HCoyote> that looks like smart data
[23:07:24] <SplasPood> all my zpool disks show 111 soft errors
[23:08:17] <quasi> SplasPood: you did us -L on savecore?
[23:08:38] <SplasPood> root@thumper1 # savecore -L
[23:08:39] <SplasPood> savecore: dedicated dump device required
[23:08:55] <quasi> joy
[23:09:13] <SplasPood> yep
[23:09:18] <quasi> oh well, when you give up and boot, make sure you get a crashdump then
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[23:09:33] <quasi> reboot -d
[23:11:17] <SplasPood> yea, I wanna get console on the box before I do it
[23:11:27] <SplasPood> presuming reboot -d will actually reboot it
[23:11:32] <cub-> hi all, I want to install this package here on the cdrom, do I use pkgadd?     /cdrom/sol_10_807_sparc/s1/tmp/root/var/sadm/pkg/SUNWifp
[23:11:35] <SplasPood> I was already doing a shutdown, which is hung on /sbin/sync
[23:11:40] <cub-> from the cdrom, i meant
[23:11:52] <SplasPood> cub-: pkgadd -d /cdrom/sol_10_807_sparc/s1/tmp/root/var/sadm/pkg SUNWifp
[23:12:01] <cub-> thanks SplasPood
[23:12:31] <cub-> pkgadd -d /cdrom/sol_10_807_sparc/s1/tmp/root/var/sadm/pkg/SUNWifp
[23:12:31] <cub-> pkgadd: ERROR: no packages were found in </cdrom/sol_10_807_sparc/s1/tmp/root/var/sadm/pkg/SUNWifp>
[23:12:41] <cub-> that doesn't do it
[23:12:58] <SplasPood> re-read what I showed you
[23:13:02] <SplasPood> and then try it again that way
[23:13:03] <SplasPood> ;)
[23:13:30] <cub-> heheh
[23:14:11] <cub-> ok, doing it correctly this time...i get
[23:14:12] <cub-> pkgadd: ERROR: unable to open package <SUNWifp> pkgmap file </cdrom/sol_10_807_sparc/s1/tmp/root/var/sadm/pkg/SUNWifp/pkgmap>: No such file or directory
[23:14:12] <cub-> pkgadd: ERROR: package <SUNWifp> cannot be installed on this system/zone
[23:14:25] <SplasPood> well the pkgmap seems missing
[23:14:32] <SplasPood> is this a solaris installation CD?
[23:14:39] <SplasPood> if so, you're not installing the right stuff
[23:14:41] <cub-> it's the solaris installation dvd
[23:14:44] <SplasPood> Product/Solaris_10
[23:14:45] <SplasPood> or something
[23:18:38] <cub-> hmmm...i found pkgmap but then it was looking for something else
[23:18:49] <cub-> maybe i'm not supposed to install it from the cdrom
[23:19:45] <SplasPood> hrm ps -ecflL -o user,pid,ppid,vsz,uid,s,lwp,rss,wchan,args shows me a ton of iscsitgtd ... is that normal?
[23:19:51] <SplasPood> cub-: not from that location on the cdrom, no
[23:20:03] <SplasPood> cub-: gimme an ls in /cdrom/sol_10_807_sparc
[23:20:12] <SplasPood> via msg
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[23:21:30] <sayaka> hello
[23:22:35] <sayaka> please I need some help...I am remotely connected to a S10 machine once i get to it I cannot ssh,ping or ftp....Any ideas of what could be missing in it ?
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[23:28:05] <benr> sayaka, so you can connect into it, but not talk out of it?
[23:28:17] <sayaka> that is correct!!!
[23:28:21] <SplasPood> heh
[23:29:25] <benr> sayaka, very odd.... can you ping the default gateway?
[23:29:46] <benr> are you connecting via the console or via network?
[23:29:53] <sayaka> well, that i can...no problem
[23:30:01] <sayaka> toshiro@Toshiro:~> ping 192.168.1.254
[23:30:02] <sayaka> 192.168.1.254 is alive
[23:30:02] <sayaka> toshiro@Toshiro:~>
[23:30:14] <benr> can you show me the routing table? (netstat -nr)
[23:30:17] <sayaka> i am connected through terminals
[23:30:32] <sayaka> ok, should i paste it here ?
[23:30:35] <benr> terminals meaning ssh/telnet?
[23:30:37] <benr> ya, go for it.
[23:30:42] <benr> no one else is yapping.
[23:30:43] <sayaka> ssh, that is it
[23:30:46] <benr> k
[23:31:00] <sayaka> toshiro@Toshiro:~> netstat -nr
[23:31:00] <sayaka> Routing Table: IPv4
[23:31:00] <sayaka>   Destination           Gateway           Flags  Ref   Use   Interface
[23:31:00] <sayaka> 192.168.1.0          192.168.1.80         U         1     25 rge0
[23:31:01] <sayaka> 224.0.0.0            192.168.1.80         U         1      0 rge0
[23:31:04] <sayaka> 127.0.0.1            127.0.0.1            UH        4  25289 lo0
[23:31:05] <sayaka> toshiro@Toshiro:~>
[23:31:14] <benr> ya, you need a default gateway
[23:31:19] <sayaka> .80 is my S10 box
[23:31:29] <sayaka> really ????
[23:31:31] <benr> route add default 192.168.1.254
[23:31:36] <sayaka> ok
[23:31:54] *** blindfish has quit IRC
[23:32:06] <benr> how now brown cow?
[23:32:28] <sayaka> will that stay even if i reboot ?
[23:32:47] <benr> no, so do this: echo "192.168.1.254" > /etc/defaultrouter
[23:33:26] <benr> did you set up DNS yet?
[23:34:07] <sayaka> DNS, you know what...I think that is my problem...when first installed I did not choose neither NIS+ nor DNS
[23:34:24] <benr> so add DNS servers to /etc/resolv.conf
[23:34:34] <sayaka> # ping google.com
[23:34:34] <sayaka> ping: unknown host google.com
[23:34:34] <sayaka> #
[23:35:17] <benr> do you have a DNS server?
[23:35:53] <sayaka> not really, I have a DSL router and 6 boxes connected to it
[23:35:59] <WickedWicky> last week someone pointed me to a service that will have to be started
[23:36:08] <WickedWicky> svc:/network/dns/client:default
[23:36:09] <sayaka> one of them is the HTTP server
[23:36:16] <benr> so you probly have it acting as a DNS Gateway... so use it.
[23:36:33] <sayaka> my router ?
[23:36:38] <benr> most likely...
[23:36:50] <sayaka> my router is 192.168.1.254
[23:37:23] <benr> do this to test: nslookup google.com 192.168.1.254
[23:37:50] <sayaka> so...echo "192.168.1.254" > /etc/resolv.conf ???
[23:37:51] <benr> if you get an answer, then your router is acting as a DNS gateway and you can use it as your dns server
[23:38:06] <benr> echo "nameserver 192.168.1.254" > /etc/resolv.conf
[23:38:25] *** fffff has joined #opensolaris
[23:38:36] <benr> fffff, are you related to pffffffff?
[23:38:44] <SplasPood> bah, I really wish I could get some idea of wtf all this stuff is hanging before I up and reboot
[23:38:45] <sayaka> I got an answer !!!!
[23:38:58] <benr> good... just one last thing now.
[23:39:12] <benr> cp /etc/nsswitch.dns /etc/nsswitch.conf
[23:39:24] <elektronkind> benr: fffff is actually 1048575 in disguise
[23:39:27] <elektronkind> ;)
[23:39:32] <WickedWicky> I thought that wasnt necesary anymore with the dns/client service
[23:39:35] <elektronkind> so watch out!
[23:39:40] <WickedWicky> at least, that's what people told me here last week
[23:39:45] <benr> elektronkind, 1048575 is as meaningless to me as fffff
[23:40:07] <WickedWicky> what about 255.255.255?
[23:40:08] <benr> WickedWicky, if thats true I'm not aware of it.
[23:40:15] <WickedWicky> benr: just asking :)
[23:40:17] <elektronkind> 0xfffff (hex) = 1048575 (decimal)   ;)
[23:40:21] <sayaka> benr: you are a great man!!!
[23:40:31] <benr> no, solaris is a great platform. :)
[23:40:46] <benr> so can you "ping -s google.com" now?
[23:40:47] <sayaka> benr: you are a type of person that is hard to find in this place
[23:41:32] <sayaka> toshiro@Toshiro:~> ping -s google.com
[23:41:32] <sayaka> PING google.com: 56 data bytes
[23:41:32] <sayaka> 64 bytes from jc-in-f99.google.com (64.233.187.99): icmp_seq=0. time=65.4 ms
[23:41:32] <sayaka> 64 bytes from jc-in-f99.google.com (64.233.187.99): icmp_seq=1. time=65.9 ms
[23:41:32] <sayaka> 64 bytes from jc-in-f99.google.com (64.233.187.99): icmp_seq=2. time=65.2 ms
[23:41:36] <benr> sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet.
[23:41:37] <sayaka> got it !!!
[23:41:43] <benr> your good to go.  Enjoy. ;)
[23:41:50] <sayaka> however, dont you notice a big delay there ?
[23:41:55] * benr runs off to help tamr.
[23:45:01] <sayaka> benr: thanks again man!!!
[23:45:25] *** gm152 has joined #opensolaris
[23:48:09] <timsf> hey all, is this channel logged anywhere ?
[23:49:02] <stevel> uwyn
[23:49:27] <stevel> http://www.uwyn.com/drone/log/bevinbot/opensolaris
[23:49:30] *** Dev_0x9 has quit IRC
[23:49:52] <timsf> marvellous thanks - pissup-in-brewery-like-arranging-dev-summit-stuff...
[23:50:03] <stevel> are you already in mpk?
[23:50:15] <timsf> Yeah, been here since Wednesday
[23:50:27] <timsf> Gman sprung on me that I'm picking up e^ipi
[23:50:32] <stevel> heh
[23:50:36] <timsf> but neglected to tell me where he was flying into.
[23:50:45] <stevel> sjc i thought
[23:50:56] <timsf> the number on the wiki page apparently is a land line in Canada.
[23:51:03] <timsf> :-)
[23:51:10] <stevel> http://i18n-freedom.blogspot.com/2007/10/early-morning-chaos-time.html
[23:51:17] <stevel> n/m. looks like he diverted to SFO
[23:51:33] <timsf> hoping that it'll have been mentioned on IRC 6 hrs back before I arrived...
[23:51:34] * timsf digs
[23:52:20] <timsf> bingo
[23:52:44] <g4lt-mordant> here's a tongue-in cheek RFE I'd like to be a fly on the wall for the discussion thereof, ust so I can see who really understands what /sbin really was "with the death of static libraries, /sbin and its cousin /usr/sbin are no longer needed, drop them and make them symlinks to /usr/bin"
[23:54:04] <stevel> sweet. bruce lee is coming
[23:54:09] <stevel> enter the dragon
[23:54:18] <timsf> If we have enough soup, we should be fine.
[23:55:22] <alanc> g4lt-mordant: Closed - Not A Bug - See filesystem(5)   8-)
[23:56:00] <g4lt-mordant> alanc, right, given that the new definition of sbin is SYSTEM rather than STATIC
[23:56:08] <g4lt-mordant> hence the bug on a wall
[23:56:24] <alanc> I thought it was always system, and much of it was never statically linked
[23:56:38] <alanc>  /sbin/sh was an exception, not the rule
[23:58:17] <g4lt-mordant> I thought sunos, being a prtty much direct copy of BSD had the original definition, since the original use was as a place to hold binaries that MUST never die because of library death





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