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[00:07:43] <phrost> Triskelios: with -kv spit out a lot of info, the last line was something about notice: kernel debugger present and then the monitor went in to DPMS standby
[00:09:06] <boyd_> alanc: So, I don't suppose yoou get a cut of the advertising revenue from what they run beside that story? :)
[00:09:15] <boyd_> (Morning, all)
[00:10:03] <alanc> boyd_: I wish
[00:10:21] <alanc> would make up for all the directors mailing my manager to ask what's up with that story
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[00:11:53] <boyd_> Ouch
[00:12:33] <alanc> fortunately, I'm not the one who was supposed to have the Sun Alert submitted for the official response
[00:12:42] <boyd_> Thing is, it's not that big a deal... I mean, almost nobody (in the scheme of things) uses xfs, si just turn it off.
[00:13:12] <boyd_> (Of course, of you *do* use it, then you're in trouble
[00:13:25] <alanc> right, and my original point was that it's off by default on new systems thanks to secure-by-default, so it wasn't as big a deal as the first article claimed
[00:14:07] <boyd_> Oh, while I have you alanc, how are you on xkb?
[00:14:58] <alanc> I know enough to be dangerous
[00:15:13] <alanc> and I've faked the rest when having to fix XKB in solaris
[00:15:41] <Teltariat> Just out of curiosity: Now that my entire disk is a zpool, and I have my root on a ZFS dataset, how best would I go about using the latest SXCE DVD (b74) to install straight to a ZFS dataset?
[00:15:47] <boyd_> :) Just a quick (non-OS) question.. .I have an Ubuntu box with a Typ6 USB kb attached... I think I should be able to say something like sun(type6usb), does that sound right?
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[00:16:16] <alanc> something like that - I don't remember the model names used on Linux
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[00:17:11] <boyd_> That's the way it looks from the files... or something like this: setxkbmap  -rules rules/sun -model type6_usb
[00:17:50] <boyd_> .. .thing is, I get "Couldn't find rules file (rules/sun)", even though it's there... I note that there is no "sun.lst" file.. do you think that could be killing it?
[00:17:59] <alanc> not sure how well the rules/sun work - we use rules/xorg for the Sun keyboards on Solaris
[00:18:06] <boyd_> Oh.
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[00:18:16] <boyd_> There's no type6 mentioned in the xord file on this box...
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[00:18:21] <boyd_> but there is in the sun file
[00:18:26] <apersson> /ctcp apersson version
[00:18:49] <apersson> err...
[00:18:57] <alanc> oh, I don't remember how much of those changes got integrated back upstream
[00:19:22] <boyd_> alanc: Hmm.. could be an old version.. ok, I'll do a comparison with SX. Thanks
[00:19:25] <ottom> it should be the same as any other USB keyboard
[00:19:55] <boyd_> ottom: You mean all the other USB keyboards with "stop" "again" "props"... "compose" ?
[00:19:58] <Triskelios> phrost: uh, you could try without -k, but normally if it crashes you should just get a debugger prompt
[00:20:26] <alanc> yeah, our data files are the base keyboard plus the extra sun keys
[00:20:45] <boyd_> ottom: Sorry, that was snarky... Pre Caffeine
[00:21:14] <alanc> I know we worked with some redhat guys a while ago on the sun usb kb definitions so they could run better on our x64 workstations
[00:21:17] <ottom> there are standard USB codes for those keys.  Some other USB keymap might cover them, or not, depending on how conscientious the person who wrote the keymap was
[00:21:43] <boyd_> alanc: The Ubuntu config is all insane... they have Alt and Meta on the same mod, and Super and Hyper too.
[00:21:51] <ottom> boyd_: don't worry about the snark, I'm used to it :-)
[00:22:02] <ottom> (not from you, just generally)
[00:22:05] <boyd_> :)
[00:22:22] <alanc> compose shares a keycode with the windows or menu key on PC keyboards, since the USB committee decided you'ld have one or the other
[00:22:33] <boyd_> Which means I can't type Meta-Super-Hyper-Alt-Control-Shift-Stop
[00:22:58] <ottom> so, no emacs then.
[00:23:04] <boyd_> alanc: Nice choice... "If you don't speak english, you don't deserve a menu"
[00:23:32] <phrost> Triskelios: if i just boot it with -v it freezes up at mouse80240
[00:23:44] <phrost> where it detects the PS/2 port and spits out the hardware address
[00:23:49] <alanc> obviously we need to add a new Ultra modifier - though Sun marketing will have to rename it to the Blade modifier and then back to Ultra a few years later
[00:23:56] <boyd_> Oh, one more thing... is there a way in Xsun to force Numlock on from sw? That free's up a mod for me to use
[00:24:08] <boyd_> "Java"?
[00:24:58] <Triskelios> Teltariat: I have a script to do in-place upgrade on zfs (Live Upgrade doesn't support zfs), the installer doesn't officially support it
[00:25:32] <Triskelios> phrost: uh.. might want to check if someone else has reported this problem
[00:25:39] <Teltariat> Triskelios: I remember downloading that script; I was just wondering if there was any other way.  Thanks
[00:26:16] <phrost> Triskelios: is there a bug tracker anywhere?
[00:26:19] <phrost> or would it be on the mailing lists
[00:26:21] <Triskelios> Teltariat: the only other way is to BFU, that only gets you the ON bits (and messes up packaging data)
[00:26:27] <ottom> boyd_: 'xset led 1' sometimes works, although it's not guaranteed.  I don't know enough about XKB to know whether it provides a better mechanism
[00:26:30] <diomac> can someone tell me if sol10 requires ipv6 to be enabled for tftp to work?
[00:26:44] <boyd_> ottom: Oh, I thought that only did the led, so I didn't try it
[00:26:45] <Teltariat> tftp should work just fine without ip6
[00:26:58] <Teltariat> Triskelion: thanks, I appreciate your help
[00:27:21] <ottom> right, the side effect of turning on the numlock mode isn't guaranteed
[00:27:28] <boyd_> ottom: There's a tool called "numlockx" which seems to be used on Xorg but on Xsun it will only turn numlock *off
[00:27:33] <Triskelios> phrost: bugs.opensolaris.org, but it's more likely to be reported on the mailing lists
[00:27:35] <boyd_> * but not the led
[00:27:49] <Teltariat> Was a broken dbus a bug back in snv_69?
[00:27:59] <ottom> haha.  Somebody somewhere has a sense of humour
[00:28:33] <diomac> telta i thought so but a guy at sun says it won't
[00:28:37] <Triskelios> I don't remember that when I had b69
[00:28:46] <diomac> having trouble with jumpstart on sol10 x64
[00:28:55] <Teltariat> My dbus (snv_69) is missing dbus-glib-1.so, but I install SUNWGlib and its still having fits.
[00:30:32] <phrost> Triskelios: any common 'failsafe' options for trying to install it like noapic/apm on linux?
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[00:32:32] <Triskelios> phrost: there is acpi-user-options
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[00:34:23] <Triskelios> Teltariat: that is provided by SUNWdbus-bindings, guess your install is damaged
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[02:10:48] <gisburn> !summon comay
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[02:12:45] <Shiv_1> Is dennis(clarke) here?
[02:13:45] <gisburn> Shiv_1: He was assasinated by a pengin lover 10mins ago.
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[02:14:26] <Shiv_1> :) And how come you didnt rush for help !?
[02:14:47] <seanmcg> gisburn: curious why you looking for dave ?
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[02:14:58] <quittt> which is better for a common user?
[02:15:06] <quittt> OpenSolaris or Solaris 10?
[02:15:07] <gisburn> seanmcg: which dave ?!
[02:15:18] <seanmcg> gisburn: umm comay ?
[02:15:22] <gisburn> seanmcg: AFAIK dclarke is Dennis Clarke
[02:15:24] <gisburn> erm
[02:15:28] <Shiv_1> quittt: OpenSolaris
[02:15:39] <gisburn> seanmcg: erm... I didn't knew his first name until now... ;-(
[02:15:58] <seanmcg> gisburn: oops :}
[02:16:18] <gisburn> seanmcg: seveal questions related to a) menlo park, b) indiana c) ksh d) misc bickering
[02:16:27] <alanc> gisburn: I thought you'ld gotten plenty of mail from david.comay at sun dot com before
[02:16:46] <stevel> a) it's mythical. doesn't exist.
[02:16:51] <stevel> b) it's mythicaly. doesn't exist.
[02:16:56] <stevel> mythical even
[02:16:57] <seanmcg> quittt: opensolaris isn't a operating system, you be thinking of SXCE74 or so
[02:16:57] <jbk> b) also a flyover state
[02:17:07] <stevel> ;-)
[02:17:21] <quittt> Shiv_1, how does it work? is it quite simple? does it a great
[02:17:37] <quittt> does it have a great amount of application?
[02:17:40] <seanmcg> stevel: a) mpk has a nice canteen :)
[02:17:41] <alanc> yeah, figured Roland would be able to see indiana existing as he flew over on his way to SFO (though I suppose it depends on route)
[02:18:01] <stevel> seanmcg: better than some. not as nice as others. :)
[02:18:01] <quittt> I requested one OpenSolaris Express Kit
[02:18:15] <seanmcg> stevel: nicer than Ireland's
[02:18:17] <quittt> I wanted a stable and secure OS to use with my family
[02:18:31] <stevel> seanmcg: i've heard that from a few people from DUB
[02:19:03] <Shiv_1> quittt: OpenSolaris is much better (desktop is more polished and more user friendly) for end user
[02:19:17] <seanmcg> quitt: SXCE is nice and stable (using it since times pater myself).  Just be sure to have live upgrade enabled (i.e. another root partition)
[02:19:27] <quittt> Shiv_1, why?
[02:19:44] <seanmcg> s/pater/past/
[02:19:56] <Shiv_1> quittt: All the work that happens at opensolaris.org is around Solarix express. It is the next version of Solaris in the making.
[02:19:59] <quittt> Shiv_1, because I've asked in #solaris which one was better, and they said Solaris
[02:20:11] <quittt> here you say OpenSolaris haha, I don't know...
[02:20:16] <Shiv_1> quittt: When I said OpenSolaris, I actually meant Solarix Express.
[02:20:36] <Shiv_1> quittt: My mistake (of misusing the term OpenSolaris)
[02:20:41] <seanmcg> 'opensolaris' is a means to create
[02:20:43] <quittt> Shiv_1, I see... no problem
[02:21:01] <quittt> is it user friendly as Debian is?
[02:21:09] <seanmcg> Solaris Express is a creation _from_ opensolaris
[02:21:25] <seanmcg> (with abunch of other things)
[02:21:43] <quittt> humm
[02:21:54] <Shiv_1> quittt: OpenSolaris is the code base. Solaris Express is a distro based on that this plus it also has been fed with inputs from other codebases for the desktop and applications, etc.
[02:22:29] <Shiv_1> quittt: Comparison with Debian - if you are thinking of getting new applications using something like synaptic manager, then
[02:22:48] <e^ipi> think of it like this.... OpenSolaris is like 'Linux'... Solaris Express is like fedora & solaris10 is like RHEL
[02:23:06] <e^ipi> but OpenSolaris ( and linux) aren't installable things, they're just code used to make things
[02:23:18] <Shiv_1> quittt: You will need to use the service provided by blastwave which provides many apps via network repository
[02:23:45] <seanmcg> stevel: how goes the new jobbie ?
[02:24:10] <stevel> seanmcg: it's been fun.... a lot of reading to try and get up to speed
[02:24:25] <stevel> it's a challenge to be learning completely new/different stuff
[02:24:45] <quittt> ooh
[02:24:46] <quittt> I see
[02:25:08] <seanmcg> sounds good.  Like starting sin sun again :)
[02:25:12] <seanmcg> s/sin/in/
[02:25:33] <quittt> it is a bit confusing hehe
[02:25:45] <quittt> that's bad... I download all the 6 CDs of Solaris 10
[02:26:56] <Shiv_1> stevel: Songbird => media player ?
[02:27:08] <stevel> seanmcg: yup, exactly :)
[02:27:11] <stevel> shiv_1: yeah
[02:27:37] <seanmcg> stevel: you change the tag here, to SXCE being 74 ?  I see you stil have the rights to.  which is good.
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[02:28:04] <Shiv_1> stevel: Porting it to SX has been on my list. Now I can knock it from the list I suppose :)
[02:28:09] <stevel> <HeManVoice>I *still* HAVE THE POWER</HeManVoice>
[02:28:16] <seanmcg> heh
[02:28:25] <stevel> seanmcg: i still intend on being involved in OpenSolaris (heck, I'm still on the OGB)
[02:28:39] <stevel> Shiv_1: Triskelios has done a ton of work on that
[02:28:46] <quittt> which is the most complete distro made from OpenSolaris?
[02:29:18] <seanmcg> stevel: ya, you're now one of two not in sun on the OGB 8-)
[02:29:53] <seanmcg> (can I say that loud enough ?)
[02:30:13] <alanc> yeah, we had to correct his old boss today when she said there was only one non-sun-employed OGB member
[02:31:21] <stevel> heh yeah
[02:31:22] <Shiv_1> quittt: Solaris Express is currently the only reasonably complete and up-to-date distro
[02:31:46] <quittt> Shiv_1, does it include and update to update it every friday?
[02:31:49] <stevel> Shiv_1: not true. both Nexenta & Belenix update frequently and (i would consider) are complete
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[02:31:59] <Shiv_1> quittt: Belenix is still primarily a liveCD.
[02:32:25] <Shiv_1> quittt:  Nexenta holds lot of promise, still considered alpha. It is *very* interesting. I haven't tried.
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[02:32:56] <quittt> Shiv_1, damn... I'm sad now... I downloaded 6 CDS for nothing...
[02:33:01] <Triskelios> quittt: SXCE is generally released every other friday (sometimes every other other)
[02:33:15] <Triskelios> Shiv_1: re: songbird: if you know how to debug xulrunner that would be helpful
[02:33:32] <Shiv_1> quittt: We had a presentation on Nexenta last Sat by Martin at the local UG. Yet to try it.
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[02:34:11] <seanmcg> Anyone here gonna be in Stanta Cruz this weekend for the meetup ?
[02:34:25] <stevel> seanmcg: i will be on Sunday
[02:34:26] <Triskelios> quittt: well, S10 is nice for servers
[02:34:42] <quittt> Triskelios, not for desktops...
[02:34:52] <Triskelios> I'll be flying in on Friday
[02:35:11] <quittt> Shiv_1, very interesting...
[02:35:12] <seanmcg> stevel: then say Hi to timsf ya ?
[02:35:25] <stevel> seanmcg: definitely. looking forward to meeting him finally
[02:35:27] <quittt> Shiv_1, and what about applications? is there a lot of it?
[02:35:29] <Shiv_1> Triskelios: Am new to XUL/gecko stuff. Can pick up.
[02:35:30] <stevel> and many others i've not yet met in person
[02:36:31] <e^ipi> I bought $100 US today and it cost me $99.30 canadian
[02:36:34] <e^ipi> w00t
[02:36:42] <Shiv_1> quittt: With nexenta, the user gets debian(userland) to work with. It is OpenSolaris kernel within.
[02:37:14] <Triskelios> nexenta is more directly derived from ubuntu from the most part
[02:37:16] <Shiv_1> quittt: they have ported ~1600 apps. Now they are focussing on stabilizing these before porting further more.
[02:37:28] <quittt> Shiv_1, I meant if there is a great ammount of applications running native in Solaris
[02:37:53] <quittt> I used to use BeOS in the past... a PERFECT OS but with a few apps
[02:38:02] <Shiv_1> quittt: Yes. Solaris Express has most apps (that I need)
[02:38:27] <Shiv_1> quittt: Are there any specific apps that you always use on your linux desktop that you are looking forward to?
[02:39:35] <Shiv_1> quittt: In case you do not have something on SX(Solaris Express), you can look at packages at blastwave: http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php
[02:40:39] <Shiv_1> quittt: If I have Solaris_10, I find myself using blastwave a lot, but if it is Solaris Express, all my software needs (except for an IRC client) are already satisfied.
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[02:44:12] <Shiv_1> Triskelios: The interesting apps like Miro,Songbird based on XUL drew my attention. No hands on experience with XUL.
[02:44:31] <seanmcg> Shiv_1: which IRC client ?
[02:45:12] <Triskelios> Shiv_1: the real problem is that I can't find evidence that anyone has gotten xulrunner from trunk to work
[02:45:14] <Shiv_1> seanmcg: I use xchat (is there any other already in SX !?)
[02:45:28] <Triskelios> Shiv_1: using OSOLxchat from pkgbase?
[02:45:46] <seanmcg> pidgin and or chatzilla add on
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[02:46:07] * seanmcg who uses xchat too
[02:46:13] <Triskelios> chatzilla is one of the worst clients I've ever seen
[02:47:48] <Shiv_1> seanmcg: Never got around to liking chatzilla. Havent tried pidgin ! Invoking pidgin is asking for password for default keyring to unlock.
[02:48:02] <Shiv_1> seanmcg: (I do not remember specifying one :(  )
[02:48:10] <Triskelios> Shiv_1: maybe it's blank?
[02:48:28] <Shiv_1> Triskelios: Tried & it refused to accept.
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[02:48:38] <quittt> hello
[02:48:44] <quittt> I'm sorry I quit
[02:48:50] <quittt> I had some problems here hehe
[02:49:26] <quittt> how many CDs are enough for a good desktop?
[02:49:34] <Triskelios> SX is one DVD
[02:49:53] <quittt> I don't have a DVD-R =[
[02:50:57] <Triskelios> you need all of the CDs, then (or boot CD 1 and NFS share the DVD image)
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[02:57:00] <Shiv_1> Triskelios: The nvu/komposer builds on SX. But doesn't run. That is the state of the nvu spec in SFE repository. Is this linked to the XUL issue that you were mentioning?
[02:59:10] <Triskelios> not sure, as I wasn't previously aware of this
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[03:01:42] <quittt> Shiv_1, great
[03:01:46] <quittt> I'm downloading it =]
[03:02:00] <quittt> Shiv_1, people say that it is VERYYYYYYYYY stable
[03:02:07] <Triskelios> Shiv_1: seems unlikely, as nvu was released in 2005
[03:02:35] <quittt> I won't delete this Solaris 10...
[03:02:47] <quittt> I will keep it there for a friend of my father may like it
[03:02:52] <Shiv_1> Triskelios: Oh yeah.......It is not the XUL as we know today. But it uses the mozilla sources (the earlier avatar of XUL - gecko?)
[03:03:18] <Triskelios> Shiv_1: but firefox from the 2.0.0 branch obviously works...
[03:04:06] <quittt> Shiv_1, so the installer is very easy...
[03:04:20] <Shiv_1> Triskelios: Yes! Not sure how much effort and what kind of customizations have gone into firefox builds.
[03:04:25] <quittt> the hardest installer I ever saw was from NetBSD
[03:04:42] <Triskelios> Shiv_1: I'm not aware of any changes
[03:05:16] <Shiv_1> quittt: Installer is easy to use - but may not be very flexible if you expect installations into extended hard disks or installations into <4GB partitions.
[03:05:39] <quittt> what do you mean?
[03:05:50] <quittt> I will make a 13 gigabyte partition for it
[03:05:53] <quittt> with Gparted
[03:06:07] <Shiv_1> quittt: Wonderful. And it should be a primary partition.
[03:06:08] <Triskelios> quittt: the installer has somewhat limited functionality compared to the old solaris installer. it is slated to replaced the old installer when it is complete, but both are available right now
[03:06:23] <quittt> ahh
[03:06:32] <quittt> and it does include Java Desktop
[03:06:41] <quittt> does it include its "old" desktop?
[03:06:54] <Triskelios> CDE is also included for the die-hards
[03:07:11] <alanc> CDE will die hard soon
[03:07:17] <Shiv_1> quittt: Yes. That is the default one (actively being developed at opensolaris.org).
[03:07:40] <quittt> I'm very excited with OpenSolaris now
[03:07:41] <Triskelios> alanc: woo!
[03:07:41] <quittt> =]
[03:08:21] <quittt> ohhh
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[03:08:32] <quittt> Shiv_1, there was a magazine that came with it?
[03:08:40] <elektronkind> wesolows: you around?
[03:08:43] <quittt> it is a old version of OpenSolaris... but a lot of people loved it
[03:08:52] <gisburn> seanmcg: ping!
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[03:09:25] <bra1> Anyone want to help me on a long and complicated process?
[03:09:31] <Shiv_1> quittt: Magazine? I dont have a clue.
[03:09:38] <elektronkind> bra1: marriage?
[03:09:44] <bra1> lol
[03:09:47] <bra1> no
[03:09:55] <Triskelios> bra1: divorce?
[03:09:55] <quittt> there are some magazines here in Brazil that comes blunded with OS Cds
[03:10:14] <bra1> I need to install linux on a computer with no OS and no external media
[03:10:41] <Triskelios> bra1: well, that's about as relevant here as marriage
[03:10:45] <bra1> Which means I need to set up some kind of server in Solaris and feed it the data
[03:10:52] <seanmcg> gisburn: umm pong ?
[03:11:01] <Shiv_1> quittt: You should try out Solaris Express, and if you are happy, ask the magazine guys to check with SUN and distribute it with their magazine....
[03:11:31] <quittt> Shiv_1, I'm already downloading it
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[03:11:36] <quittt> Solaris Express Comunity
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[03:11:54] <gisburn> seanmcg: do you know whether it's likely that comay may appear today or not (I'm asking since I am leaving for the US in six hours) ?
[03:13:17] <seanmcg> gisburn: can't tell as I'm about 8 hours ahead of comay.  sorry :}
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[03:13:41] <quittt> Shiv_1, its desktop is very beatiful
[03:13:46] <Beginner> t
[03:13:49] <Shiv_1> quittt: It was done for a magazine at my place(India). It was a moderate success. The success was limited by the need of >=768mb RAM of Solaris Express.
[03:13:50] <quittt> Shiv_1, but tell me the advantages of OpenSolaris?
[03:14:16] <quittt> how much does it of RAM?
[03:14:32] <bra1> Does anyone know how to change the resolution?
[03:14:33] <quittt> it needs*
[03:14:37] <quittt> need*
[03:14:38] <quittt> damn
[03:14:39] <quittt> hehe
[03:14:47] <gisburn> seanmcg: in which timezone does he hide ?
[03:15:00] <bra1> I run it on 512mb but it needs 768mb for a graphical install
[03:15:23] <Shiv_1> quittt: Solaris Express Community Edition I believe will install with 512mb RAM, but the Solaris Express Developer Edition needs 768mb.
[03:15:45] <Shiv_1> quittt: It can peacefully work with 256mb RAM but the installer needs 768mb !
[03:15:48] <quittt> wow!
[03:15:56] <quittt> Shiv_1, 768?!?!
[03:16:02] <Shiv_1> quittt: That is going to change with the new installer.
[03:16:04] <quittt> I don't have this in my PC
[03:16:17] <Beginner> How drastically will it change?
[03:16:31] <Shiv_1> quittt: You are downloading Community Edition, so it shouldnt be an issue. How much RAM do you have?
[03:17:12] <seanmcg> gisburn: unsure.  I'm in GMT+0  he could be anywhere (but not beside me)
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[03:17:34] <quittt> 256
[03:17:40] <Shiv_1> quittt: I had been using/installing on 256mb celeron system till recently.
[03:17:56] <bra1> so noone wants to help me with the server issue?
[03:18:08] <alanc> gisburn: comay is in a timezone where it's starting to be evening (18:17) so I wouldn't expect him to show up if you haven't seen him yet - send him e-mail
[03:18:09] <quittt> Shiv_1, but it is a light system, isn't it?
[03:18:14] <Shiv_1> quittt: You will need to use console based installation. Less intuitive to install but nevertheless works.
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[03:18:48] <quittt> Shiv_1, I prefer console installation
[03:18:50] <quittt> it is faster
[03:19:05] <quittt> Ubuntu graphical install was a pain in the a*
[03:19:21] <Beginner> ...
[03:19:44] <Shiv_1> quittt: The last I used ubuntu, its installer was identical to debian. (Probably breezy or hoary).
[03:19:45] <quittt> it was TOOO slow
[03:19:58] <Beginner> Solaris needs to use Xorg
[03:20:28] <Triskelios> Beginner: it has for a long time now
[03:20:47] <Beginner> Sun's own server isn't it?
[03:20:48] <Shiv_1> quittt: Console based solaris installation on my earlier celeron system (256mb, 1.4GHz) used to take 70mins.
[03:20:57] <Triskelios> Beginner: only on SPARC
[03:21:00] <Beginner> o
[03:21:15] <Beginner> I read directions to change to Xorg server though
[03:21:17] <Triskelios> Beginner: well, you can run it on x86, but it's less useful there
[03:21:41] <Shiv_1> quittt: And that was for option to install all the softwares
[03:21:56] <Beginner> All I know is that I'm stuck at 640x480
[03:22:19] <Beginner> which it randomly switched to after using 1024x768
[03:22:28] <Triskelios> Beginner: what video card do you have?
[03:23:02] <Beginner> Nvidia 256mb *MX
[03:23:16] <Beginner> * I think MX
[03:23:16] <Beginner> I think MX
[03:24:24] <alanc> Beginner: those must be old directions - Xorg has been the default on Solaris x86 since the first Solaris 10 release in 2005
[03:24:34] <Beginner> o
[03:24:59] <Shiv_1> Triskelios: Have you put any specs into SFE?
[03:25:29] <Triskelios> Shiv_1: around 30 or so, I guess
[03:26:04] <Shiv_1> Triskelios: Tried xchat ? pkgbuild succeeds but no executable available at the end.
[03:27:04] <Shiv_1> Triskelios: I tried a make, make install independantly. make succeeds but no executable to be found anywhere around. (with 2.8.4).
[03:27:15] <Triskelios> I'll look at it, I've been using OSOLxchat
[03:27:27] <Shiv_1> Triskelios: I have been using the one from an earlier build that I had built.
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[03:29:21] <Beginner> How do I install ISO's?
[03:29:34] <Beginner> Solaris wants to open them as a webpage
[03:29:50] <Triskelios> Beginner: those are CD/DVD images. you burn them to disc
[03:30:35] <Triskelios> Shiv_1: just built SFExchat, it works
[03:30:56] <Shiv_1> Triskelios: And the path of the executable is...
[03:31:07] <Triskelios>  /usr/bin/xchat
[03:31:43] <Shiv_1> Triskelios: You mean, you did a build-install ?
[03:32:02] <Triskelios> Shiv_1: yes. the install actually failed since I still have OSOLxchat installed
[03:32:23] <Beginner> How do I get solaris to download them instead of try to open them?
[03:33:00] <Beginner> Or would it be easier just to download a bit-torrent client and download it that way?
[03:33:01] <Triskelios> Beginner: firefox will ask to save or open
[03:33:59] <Beginner> http://mirror.myriadnetwork.com/centos/5.0/isos/i386/ clicking on any of those will cause firefox to try to open it as a webpage
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[03:34:36] <Shiv_1> Triskelios: Can you check the executable inside the <build-dir>/xchat-2.8.4 and let me know if it exists
[03:35:11] <Triskelios> Shiv_1: the package certainly has a good-looking binary
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[03:36:01] <Triskelios> yeah, also xchat-2.8.4/src/fe-gtk/xchat
[03:36:03] <Toad> so, newb question -- what package can I find "stat" in?
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[03:36:31] <Triskelios> Toad: SUNWgnu-coreutils - it's a GNU thing...
[03:36:36] <quittt> Shiv_1, thanks for your help
[03:36:38] <quittt> I'm glad
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[03:36:44] <Toad> Triskelios: thanks
[03:36:51] <quittt> Shiv_1, I will install it for my family tomorrow...
[03:36:54] <quittt> =] bye
[03:37:09] <Shiv_1> quittt: Bye
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[03:38:50] <Beginner> Anway to change resolutions?
[03:39:52] <axisys> what can I do to get to console if ESC ( does not help on X2100.. it had been working until someuser installed a patch..
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[03:40:33] <Triskelios> Beginner: choose "Screen Resolution" from the prefs section of the JDS menu
[03:41:05] <Beginner> The only option is 640x480
[03:41:37] <Triskelios> what release of Solaris?
[03:41:51] <gisburn> Triskelios: which shell do you use ?
[03:42:02] <Toad> Triskelios: do I need to add a GNU repository somewhere or something? it's saying it can't find the package
[03:42:07] <Beginner> Triskelios,SunOS unknown 5.11 snv_70b i86pc i386 i86pc
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[03:42:10] <Toad> (I tried pkg-get install SUNWgnu-coreutils)
[03:42:12] <gisburn> Triskelios: if it's ksh93 use $ builtin -f libshell.so.1 stat ; stat --man
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[03:42:33] <Triskelios> Toad: no, you need a recent SX release
[03:42:50] <Toad> SunOS minerva 5.10 Generic_125101-10 i86pc i386 i86pc
[03:43:03] <Triskelios> Beginner: strange, did you create an xorg.conf manually?
[03:43:08] <Beginner> Yes
[03:43:11] <Triskelios> Beginner: try removing that
[03:43:12] <Toad> not recent enough?
[03:43:17] <Beginner> It wouldn't let me test it though
[03:43:22] <Triskelios> Toad: yeah, you need SX...
[03:43:27] <Toad> Triskelios: bummer
[03:43:28] <Beginner> It's still saved as xorg.conf.new
[03:43:41] <Beginner> I was thinking of naming it xorg.conf
[03:43:43] <Toad> Triskelios: any other easy way to see the mtime of a file down to sub-second?
[03:44:05] <Toad> Triskelios: I'm trying to debug an issue where mtime updates seem to take several seconds to take affect sometimes
[03:45:21] <seanmcg> axisys: get to the console from X ?
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[03:46:25] <Beginner> seanmcg, to get to console from X is esc+backspace
[03:46:44] <Triskelios> Toad: there is a stat.d dtrace script
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[03:47:23] <gisburn> Toad: if you have Solaris 11/Nevada >=B72 try use ksh93 -c 'builtin -f libshell.so.1 stat ; stat --man'
[03:47:33] <Triskelios> Beginner: what does /usr/X11/bin/scanpci say your card is?
[03:47:39] <gisburn> aside from other stuff it supports sub-second timestamps
[03:47:41] <Triskelios> gisburn: the problem is he doesn't
[03:47:50] <gisburn> groan
[03:49:17] <Beginner> Triskelios, nVidia Corporation NV17
[03:49:24] <Toad> yea... I ended up using perl :)
[03:49:30] <Toad> no sub-second but I ran it enough times to figure out
[03:49:52] <Toad> I've NFS-mounted a ZFS drive, and touching a file on one host makes the mtime update immediately on the solaris system
[03:50:14] <Toad> but for some reason when I then stat that same file on another machine that's got the system mounted, it takes a few seconds to "see" the mtime change
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[03:50:31] <seanmcg> Beginner: or ctrl+alt+backspace a few times (three at least to disable X).  Am asking axisys where he wants to get the console from.
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[03:50:48] <Toad> "touch foo ; ssh other-linux-system stat foo" shows an out of date mtime
[03:50:50] <Beginner> ok, sorry
[03:50:53] <axisys> seanmcg, Beginner the system is in different state
[03:51:10] <axisys> i am trying to console in remotely
[03:52:27] <seanmcg> oh, right.  axisys, console in remotely to an x2100 via ssh or the like ?
[03:53:29] <Triskelios> Beginner: ok, NVIDIA stopped supporting the GeForce 4 in their current drivers. you need to install the legacy drivers
[03:53:31] <axisys> it is connected off of a cisco console switch.. it had been wprking for months
[03:54:21] <seanmcg> ok console switch.  and you wanna drop t o the x2100's SP from there ?
[03:54:30] <axisys> seanmcg: exactly
[03:54:55] <Beginner> Triskelios, Any idea why it just stopped working though?
[03:55:13] <seanmcg> odd that the esc+( doesn't work
[03:55:30] <axisys> i guess i have to run a separate key combination on the cisco console server which would translate to esc+( ?!
[03:57:19] <seanmcg> possibly.  I usually have ssh to the SP setup and never bother anymore with ttya's.  ethernet is more common than NTS boxes now :)
[03:57:24] <Triskelios> Beginner: no, since the driver didn't like your card originally...
[03:58:05] <seanmcg> axisys: sorry I canna help more.  my ttya's are typically through a perle console box, no cisco
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[04:01:20] <Beginner> Can anyone help me with pxe/netboot
[04:01:24] <Beginner> ?
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[04:04:04] <seanmcg> Beginner: umm possibly
[04:04:37] <sleepcat> is Linus Torvalds a good kernel engineer?  Could he get hired if he wasn't famous, lets say at SUN?
[04:04:45] * dlg cough
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[04:05:54] <Triskelios> sleepcat: it is generally agreed that he knows what he's doing most of the time
[04:06:22] <sleepcat> Triskelios: I'm trying to troll here for fun
[04:06:31] <sleepcat> be rational is not very helpful
[04:07:12] <Beginner> seanmcg, I need to install an operating system via netboot or pxe
[04:07:25] <Triskelios> Beginner: add in.tftpd to inetd.conf and run inetconv
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[04:08:11] <Triskelios> and configure dhcpd
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[04:09:48] <seanmcg> Beginner: 'an operating system'  ?  solaris perchance ?-)   You may wanna look at JET, sun.com/bigadmin/conten/het
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[04:10:13] <seanmcg> it would involve as what Triskelios says...
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[04:10:35] <Beginner> seanmcg, It's a pentium 2 700mhz with 256mb ram
[04:10:51] <Beginner> It would be a good experiment but I doubt solaris has support for the wireless card
[04:11:00] <Beginner> *pentium 3 mobile
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[04:11:06] <seanmcg> Beginner: ohh.. 256MB... ouch..  bit small for SXCE...
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[04:11:09] <Triskelios> Beginner: which wireless card?
[04:11:33] <Triskelios> I ran SX on a P3 laptop with that much RAM for some months... wasn't fun
[04:12:02] <Beginner> Dynex DX-WGNBC
[04:12:02] <Shiv_1> Triskelios: I just checked the xchat thing again. The fe-gtk was never getting built and neither was it throwing errors.
[04:12:19] <Shiv_1> Triskelios: All the specs need a test after the B70
[04:12:32] <Shiv_1> Triskelios: I resolved the issue manually.
[04:12:48] <Shiv_1> Triskelios: My machine is at B72
[04:12:55] <Triskelios> mine is running snv_73
[04:13:38] <Triskelios> did it not detect your GTK headers or something?
[04:14:08] <Shiv_1> Triskelios: Strange. Yeah. I had to manually specify the gtk/gdk/pango/cairo headers....
[04:14:12] <Beginner> Triskelios, Btw do you know the path to inetd.conf?
[04:14:40] <Shiv_1> Triskelios: Will check the configure in detail.
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[04:15:24] <Triskelios> Beginner: /etc. btw, there are man pages for most of the editable config files
[04:15:25] <gisburn> Anyone here working in Czech ?
[04:15:44] <Beginner> ok
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[04:17:11] <zoranoth> anyone got solaris to boot in VirtualBox??
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[04:21:06] <Beginner> Triskelios, Is this section correct?
[04:21:51] <Beginner> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/732540
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[04:23:26] <seanmcg> Beginner: what OS you runing on the server ?
[04:24:00] <Triskelios> Beginner: yeah, uncomment it and then run inetconv
[04:24:19] <Triskelios> Beginner: it will be added as an SMF service
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[04:26:49] <axisys> so anyone know what i sthe cisco console switch command euivalnet to esc+( for x2100 .. the server's RS232 port is connected to a cisco console switch
[04:27:00] <axisys> may be there is a cheat sheet somewhere?!
[04:27:27] <Beginner> Triskelios, When I try to save the changes it says You are trying to save the file on a read-only disk. Please check that you typed the location correctly and try again
[04:27:46] <Triskelios> Beginner: yeah, force the save
[04:28:20] <sommerfeld> Beginner: what editor are you using?  (some editors let you force, others don't)
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[04:28:43] <jwit> axisys, does esc+( send a break?
[04:29:23] <axisys> jwit: no.. if i had laptop conencted to rs232 the esc+( would give me sp prompt
[04:29:43] <Beginner> sommerfield, Gedit
[04:29:59] <axisys> esc+( does not seem to respond when it is at remote localtion hanging off of a cisco console server
[04:30:37] <Beginner> Doesn't say anything about forcing it.
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[04:31:11] <Triskelios> Beginner: um, you can't edit the file as a non-root user
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[04:32:22] <Beginner> Triskelios, I am root
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[04:38:38] <Triskelios> Beginner: save to a new file and move to /etc/inet/
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[04:43:01] <Beginner> Ok inetd1.conf is in /etc/inetd
[04:44:23] <Triskelios> Beginner: just replace inetd.conf now, run inetconv, and enable the service. then do the dhcp stuff. there's a guide somewhere
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[04:50:18] <bra1> ok I did that
[04:51:09] <bra1> Triskelios, This computer(the server) get's it's ip address form dhcp is that going to be a problem?
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[04:51:46] <Triskelios> that may be a problem, because the client needs to use a DHCP server that you can control
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[04:52:27] <Beginner> Can I have this computer be a dhcp server while using dhcp?
[04:53:00] <Triskelios> not on the same network
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[04:53:46] <Beginner> Triskelios, What if I connected the laptop directly to this computer?
[04:54:09] <Beginner> Could I add another nic and connect them with a cross-over cable?
[04:54:12] <Triskelios> that will work
[04:54:22] <Beginner> cool
[04:55:53] <Beginner> That is a pretty unique set-up though
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[04:56:42] <Triskelios> plenty of computers have multiple network cards, this just a very small network
[04:57:34] <Beginner> Can to computers be networked with a hub, not just share internet access but "see" each other?
[04:57:37] <Beginner> *two
[04:58:04] <Triskelios> that is how basic networking works
[04:58:46] <Beginner> I always thought a hub could just share internet connections
[04:58:49] <Beginner> interesting
[04:59:27] <Triskelios> "sharing internet connections" really means one computer acts as a router and does NAT
[04:59:51] <jamesd> hmm  i have a network switch that shares network connections with 24 systems, and  that is just at home... at work we have 100's of systems sharing a single network, and almost none of them access the internet.
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[05:01:41] <Beginner> I'm trying to become proficient with as many operating systems as possible
[05:02:04] <Beginner> However is Solaris poses such trouble I doubt I can handle netware
[05:02:07] <Beginner> *if
[05:02:08] <jamesd> start with just one, learn it from top to bottom including networking.
[05:03:05] <jamesd> why learn netware, its on life support in the ICU.... almost no one is using it.
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[05:04:12] <Beginner> I have like a techno-fetish with old obscure compure stuff.
[05:04:29] <Beginner> Novell just released OES2 though
[05:04:43] <e^ipi> old obscure computer stuff like what?
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[05:05:16] <e^ipi> I'd love to rebuild an old PDP-11
[05:05:24] <Beginner> cp/m, newtonos, and Vax etc
[05:05:28] <e^ipi> though, not very obscure
[05:06:01] <Triskelios> Beginner: they're not terribly obscure...
[05:06:24] <Beginner> cp/m isn't?
[05:06:44] <Triskelios> no, everyone knows QDOS was ripped off of it
[05:07:31] <Beginner> What is obscure then?
[05:08:25] <Beginner> Atheos?
[05:09:15] <Beginner> e^ipi- Was there actually PDP 1-10 or did the 11 signify something?
[05:09:25] <e^ipi> yes, there was
[05:09:26] <jamesd> Beginner, time to research your fetish a bit better....  old computers with a highly lacking knowledge of network is a major problem unless you are a collector of appleII's
[05:09:35] <e^ipi> pdp-8 was another common one
[05:10:08] <jamesd> or timex-sinclair
[05:10:25] <e^ipi> iirc UNIX development started on a pdp-8 and soon migrated over to the pdp11
[05:10:36] <sleepcat> bill gates' experience with the pdp-8 inspired his vision of "A computer on every desktop"
[05:11:23] <sleepcat> getting access to his beloved computing time was so tough he decided to give everyone a PC
[05:11:36] <Beginner> I actually hated the apple when it came out.
[05:11:42] <Beginner> Granted I was 6-7 though
[05:12:13] <Triskelios> damn. I wasn't to be born for like a decade
[05:12:26] <sleepcat> Triskelios: how old are you?
[05:12:39] <Triskelios> 21...
[05:12:46] <Beginner> ...I'm 17
[05:12:53] <Triskelios> oh
[05:12:56] <Beginner> One of us has got their time mixed up
[05:13:12] <sleepcat> Beginner: you most likely do
[05:13:24] <jamesd> 17? i think i own computers older than that...
[05:13:25] <Beginner> I remember having some apple computer
[05:13:38] <sleepcat> jamesd: it looks like sun's strategy is working
[05:13:51] <Beginner> I want a sun pizza box
[05:13:53] <sleepcat> when i was 17 I got into linux
[05:14:09] <Triskelios> the apple ii came out in like 1977
[05:14:29] <jamesd> ah the 5th grade... those were the days.
[05:14:30] <sleepcat> Triskelios: do you write code for opensolaris?
[05:14:41] <Beginner> When I was 14 I bought a book about linux that came with redhat 6.1
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[05:15:01] <Beginner> Only to find out that Fedora Core 3 was already out
[05:15:04] <jamesd> i started with linux before redhat released  1.0
[05:15:05] <Triskelios> sleepcat: yes
[05:15:16] <sleepcat> Triskelios: what parts do you contribute to?
[05:16:09] <jamesd> bbl
[05:16:17] <Triskelios> sleepcat: mostly SFE stuff which isn't part of the real consolidation, I've only had one putback to ON so far ;)
[05:16:22] <Beginner> Ok I have to ask while i'm with fellow "geeks"
[05:16:36] <Beginner> Are computers not cooler when under the influence?
[05:16:40] <sleepcat> Triskelios: when did you get into opensolaris, or even *nix development?
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[05:18:42] <Triskelios> sleepcat: I was a Linux user/admin for a couple of years, then some friends convinced me Solaris 10 had a lot of potentional
[05:19:15] <e^ipi> Beginner, computers haven't been cool since they started being about "look what I bought" instead of "look what I made this thing do"
[05:19:28] <Beginner> :(
[05:19:35] <Beginner> I can not program
[05:19:41] <e^ipi> so learn
[05:19:46] <e^ipi> you can teach a chimp C
[05:19:50] <e^ipi> it's not that hard
[05:19:55] <Beginner> I've tried but I just don't understand the concepts
[05:19:56] <sleepcat> be prepared to spend hours upon hours learning
[05:20:20] <sleepcat> probably 10 years to get any good
[05:21:06] <e^ipi> Beginner, forget about java or C++ or object oriented languages, they just confuse the matter. a computer is a simple machine that follows a series of steps
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[05:21:15] <rubymonk> Beginner, Give a try to http://www.ruby-lang.org
[05:21:43] <sleepcat> my first programming language was c++
[05:21:54] <sleepcat> i didn't know any better
[05:22:07] <e^ipi> i like C++, but not for beginners
[05:22:08] <rubymonk> I started with basic then C.... then jumped to C++
[05:22:17] <Beginner> Anyone know why C is so popular in unix land?
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[05:22:28] <rubymonk> Because unix was written in C ?
[05:22:29] <rubymonk> :)
[05:22:30] <sleepcat> i would ride the bus at 17 with a copy of wrox press c++
[05:22:31] <e^ipi> Beginner, because that's the language it was written in?
[05:22:46] <Beginner> I mean why did they chose that language
[05:22:49] <e^ipi> and all the library functions are in the manual
[05:22:59] <sleepcat> my goal was to write a real windows application
[05:23:10] <sleepcat> I had to learn COM
[05:23:11] <e^ipi> Beginner, they didn't choose the language, they created the language alongside the OS
[05:23:15] <Beginner> O
[05:23:17] <Bartman007> because C is highly portable?
[05:23:26] <sleepcat> no, C was actually a joke
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[05:23:34] <Beginner> One think I do know is that everybody seems to dislike visual basic
[05:23:48] <rubymonk> Heh
[05:23:55] <jbk> if C was a joke, was C++ the punchline?
[05:24:00] <sleepcat> jbk: yes
[05:24:07] <sleepcat> memswap();
[05:24:20] <rubymonk> VB was created because too much people refused to take the shit of dealing with Win32api
[05:24:21] <rubymonk> :P
[05:24:34] <Triskelios> Beginner, rubymonk: Unix was actually written in mostly in machine code, then C and designed so it could be translated into something portable
[05:24:45] <Triskelios> *C was designed
[05:24:49] <Beginner> ...real men code in binary
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[05:25:01] <mlh> Triskelios: was portability or maintainability/speed of development the real reason for C
[05:25:24] <rubymonk> Beginner, real men thing is plain stupid... real men choose a language that fits well to what they have to do
[05:25:26] <mlh> R&T were amazed when the first port was done
[05:25:35] <Beginner> rubymonk, It was a joke
[05:25:45] <rubymonk> Still, asm is fun
[05:26:05] <mlh> Beginner: VB is just fine to start; just don't forget there are other languages
[05:26:24] <rubymonk> Beginner, have a look at the link I gave you
[05:26:26] <Triskelios> mlh: it's not clear to me what the actual reason for swtiching to C was, since they did a full assembly port for the PDP-11 anyway, before rewriting in C
[05:26:32] <rubymonk> ruby is fun and simple
[05:26:36] <Beginner> nah, I can't stand windows after using Linux
[05:26:41] <Beginner> rubymonk,ok
[05:27:09] <Beginner> apt-get is just so much better than window's "wizards and click-heavy interface
[05:27:37] <diomac> anyone know what the go is with cuddletech?
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[05:29:14] <Triskelios> diomac: email benr?
[05:29:20] <Beginner> It sucks being a geek in South Dakota
[05:29:47] <Tempt> boyd: ping
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[05:30:17] <jamesd> Beginner, now imagine being a geek in the world before the internet was everywhere
[05:30:25] <Beginner> ...yeah
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[05:30:34] * Tempt shrugs
[05:30:39] <Tempt> It was survivable.
[05:30:41] <Tempt> a lot more sneakernet
[05:30:54] <Beginner> Don't copy that floppy!
[05:31:27] <mlh> Beginner: you may prefer python to ruby.  Python started life as teaching language pretty much
[05:31:44] 
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[05:32:21] <Beginner> mlh, I'll try both
[05:32:49] <sleepcat> why not start right and learn lisp?
[05:32:56] <Beginner> I was gonna start with COBAL but that appears obsolete now
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[05:33:10] <rubymonk> 5.times do print "Yay" end  <--- was that difficult ?
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[05:33:18] <rubymonk> :)
[05:34:22] <Tempt> Start with SPARCv9 assembly
[05:34:34] <Tempt> that'll have the right degree of chest-beating to it.
[05:34:39] <e^ipi> oddly, that might not be a bad idea
[05:34:40] <Beginner> lol
[05:34:47] <e^ipi> assembly really teaches you how a computer works
[05:34:52] <rubymonk> Thread.new { puts "I'm in a thread!!" }
[05:34:53] <rubymonk> :)
[05:34:58] <Beginner> SPARC may be an open architecture but it is pretty rare
[05:35:01] <rubymonk> Well, asm is the best way to learn
[05:35:06] <sleepcat> what is SFE in opensolaris?
[05:35:19] <rubymonk> asm -> C -> C++ -> interpreted languages
[05:35:40] <jamesd> Beginner, not really.. its not as common as x86, but there are still millions of sparc boxes out there.
[05:35:43] <sleepcat> actually c++ is the best of all worlds
[05:35:49] <Tempt> Lots of SPARC boxes.
[05:36:07] <Tempt> and the v9 you learn on any UltraSPARC is good forever.
[05:36:16] <Tempt> Including this fancy Niagara stuff.
[05:36:21] <Beginner> I suppose they can be common commercialy though
[05:36:31] <Beginner> I've only ever seen one in real life
[05:36:38] <e^ipi> Beginner, you can pick up a sparc for pretty cheap
[05:36:39] <sleepcat> C++, C# and Java are the best languages to learn
[05:37:00] <Tempt> Quite a few people here have a lot of SPARC equipment at home
[05:37:01] <sleepcat> then throw in some javascript, html, and possibly php and you can be employed
[05:37:03] <e^ipi> $50 or so for a U60
[05:37:12] <Tempt> and in the industry sectors I work in, SPARC is the only hardware purchased for Solaris.
[05:37:24] <Tempt> I just saw another order for 30 or so T2000s go past earlier.
[05:37:29] <sleepcat> e^ipi: even I have 2 SUN Netra T 105s
[05:37:36] <Beginner> You guys grew up with Sun though didn't you?
[05:37:45] <sleepcat> yes, they probably did
[05:37:50] <e^ipi> Beginner, i grew up with PC junk
[05:37:57] <jamesd> i didn't get my first sun box untill i was over 30
[05:37:59] <sleepcat> sun used to be very active in the university area
[05:38:00] <Tempt> PC bucket crap here
[05:38:05] <Tempt> and then slightly better PC bucket crap
[05:38:10] <Tempt> and then finally real computers
[05:38:21] <jbk> heh
[05:38:22] <e^ipi> i got my first sun box about 4 years ago, then it died, then I got my blade1k
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[05:38:27] <Tempt> I got my first real computer in 1996.
[05:38:36] <Triskelios> Beginner: aside from the SPARC IPX I had when I was 13, I'd barely touched Solaris until fairly recently
[05:38:38] <Tempt> SPARCstation IPC
[05:38:53] <jbk> where i work, they're still under the mistaken impression that linux is cheaper, so they're moving everything to x86 servers
[05:38:54] <Tempt> complete with the extremely heavy 20" CRT
[05:39:03] <Beginner> Those are gigantic
[05:39:04] <kupfer> wesolows: are you around?
[05:39:08] <e^ipi> jbk, show them the support contract cost for RHEL?
[05:39:15] <e^ipi> 3 times more expensive than solaris10
[05:39:15] <Beginner> The pizza box had one
[05:39:22] <jbk> that's a different department though
[05:39:34] <jbk> oh well, it's amusing to say the least
[05:39:44] <sleepcat> once SUN gets on their feet again with opensolaris, and becomes the market leader, those support costs will triple
[05:39:58] <sleepcat> i remember when RHAT was the hero
[05:40:04] <jbk> one of the boxes crashed, and since they're not on a release that can actually do crashdumps to disk.. well it's anyone's guess waht the problem was..
[05:40:16] <Tempt> since when was deadrat a hero?
[05:40:19] <sleepcat> cheap, 10 bucks  a month for support
[05:40:26] <Beginner> Does anybody support RHEL or clones besides Red Hat
[05:40:45] <sleepcat> i was a RHN customer until they dropped support!
[05:40:46] <Beginner> It seems it would be cheaper to use a RHEL Clone and use someone else for support
[05:40:53] <sleepcat> Beginner: oracle
[05:40:59] <sleepcat> oracle does RHT support
[05:41:34] <Tempt> It'd be cheaper to just use Solaris and be happy.
[05:42:00] <Beginner> You can't make solaris users mad...
[05:42:17] <e^ipi> you wouldn't like them when they're mad?
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[05:42:25] <Beginner> You can call Linux Lunix and say BSD is dead but you can't annoy solaris users
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[05:42:38] <sleepcat> oh, beginner go to #solaris
[05:42:43] <Tempt> Yep.
[05:42:48] <Tempt> Plenty of anger.
[05:42:53] <sleepcat> opensolaris is the nice place
[05:42:54] <e^ipi> Beginner, you can annoy solaris users
[05:43:07] <e^ipi> bring up the GPL... or suggest replacing some tools with the gnu tools
[05:43:12] <sleepcat> you have to be over 18 to go to #solaris
[05:43:16] <Beginner> lol
[05:43:32] <sleepcat> just the topic itself is nws
[05:43:35] <Teltariat> Really? Sounds like my kind of place
[05:43:47] <Beginner> What about mentioning switching to bash?
[05:43:49] <sleepcat> Teltariat: it is a great place
[05:43:51] <Beginner> Is that safe?
[05:43:59] <sleepcat> Beginner: no, ksh is a better flame
[05:44:18] <Tempt> Actually, to get Solaris admins wound up, talk about EMC storage or NFS from NetApp
[05:44:21] <Teltariat> Beginner has a good point.  I've pissed Solaris ppl off by saying bash should be set as root shell
[05:44:26] <Tempt> or talk about managing thousands on LUNs
[05:44:31] <Tempt> and bitch about leadville
[05:44:37] <Tempt> and Veritas products make everyone upset too.
[05:44:47] <sleepcat> why do veritas products make people upset?
[05:44:55] * sleepcat is not a professional sys admin
[05:44:59] <Tempt> Because when they go wrong, they *really* go wrong.
[05:45:06] <Teltariat> lol, Beginner asked my question on #solaris
[05:45:08] * Tempt mutters about Norton Volume Replicator
[05:45:32] <Beginner> It's dead in there
[05:45:35] <e^ipi> #solaris is a cesspool. you'll never find a more vile hub of scum and villany
[05:45:50] <e^ipi> entertaining though
[05:45:52] <Tempt> e^ipi: Wow, that's almost quotable.
[05:46:01] <Beginner> bash.org it is...
[05:46:08] <Tempt> e^ipi: I don't know if there are too many genuine villians in there though.
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[05:47:00] <bra1> hello
[05:47:10] *** bra1 is now known as Beginne1
[05:47:48] <Beginne1> My mom actually got iternet access when I was 7
[05:47:56] <Beginne1> And unsupervised
[05:48:01] <Beginne1> I'm scarred for life
[05:48:02] <sleepcat> oh dear
[05:48:12] <Tempt> That was three long years ago ...
[05:48:19] <sleepcat> i got internet access at 13, couldn't have been more happy
[05:48:27] <sleepcat> or was that 12?
[05:48:36] <sleepcat> sometime around 93
[05:49:07] <Beginne1> I got it just soon enough for it not to be elite but still dislike AOL
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[05:50:54] <Beginne1> I was on Darpanet back in the day
[05:51:05] <Beginne1> Surfing on my 300 baud modem
[05:51:13] <Beginne1> on my commodore 2
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[05:52:07] <Tempt> we had to bang the rocks together to get zeroes
[05:52:58] <sleepcat> I had zeros in my neighborhood
[05:53:03] <jamesd> you had zeros?  we just had brief moments of silence to signal  0's
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[05:53:11] <sleepcat> all drunk and stuff
[05:53:27] <Tempt> When I say zeroes, I mean they were silence really, but they were zeroes to us.
[05:53:53] <Beginne1> We had to upgrade to get zeros
[05:54:03] <Beginne1> It was all 1's
[05:55:18] <Beginne1> Thanks for Solaris guys
[05:55:37] <Beginne1> I had one in a thousand chance of finding a linux chick
[05:55:46] <Beginne1> I can't guess the odds for a solaris one
[05:58:21] <Beginne1> How was I suppose to know Solaris doesn't have gnu tools?
[05:58:26] <Beginne1> Almost everything does
[05:58:56] <sleepcat> Beginne1: i told you #solaris is a tough crowd
[05:59:12] <Beginne1> true
[05:59:12] <sleepcat> you have to really RTFM to hang with them
[05:59:17] <jamesd> Beginne1, windows doesn't and solaris has existed before  windows or linux...
[05:59:54] <Beginne1> Solaris is only version 10
[06:00:02] <jamesd> Beginne1, #solaris is the home of numerous females and none will give you the time of day...
[06:00:09] <Beginne1> Mac OS is 10.2 it's older
[06:00:13] <Beginne1> just kidding
[06:00:35] <Beginne1> jamesd,That's harsh, I could be a charming person
[06:00:36] <jbk> heh.. i worked with a few female solaris admins at my old job
[06:01:03] <Tempt> It's a male dominated industry.
[06:01:12] <Tempt> Tend to see a lot more female DBAs and developers.
[06:01:33] <sleepcat> i know a few females on #solaris
[06:01:43] <sleepcat> but i won't reveal them
[06:01:53] <Beginne1> Even communists have chicks
[06:01:57] <Beginne1> That's unfair
[06:01:59] <jamesd> Beginne1, yes there is hope. but it would require a lot of work, and study on your part to get past your brick wall of ignorance you have built up around your self.
[06:02:20] <sleepcat> the only place that doesn't have babes is GNU
[06:02:25] *** rubymonk has quit IRC
[06:02:35] <sleepcat> RMS has a personal ad on his website
[06:02:54] <sleepcat> imagine, the gnu cult is the only one where the leader can't get a female
[06:03:05] <Beginne1> Poor RMS
[06:03:26] <sleepcat> besides, this is about computers not pickup
[06:03:38] <Beginne1> You have to admit the GPL was a pretty important piece of legalese
[06:03:45] <sleepcat> no, it is trash
[06:03:52] <sleepcat> the bsd license is better
[06:03:56] <Beginne1> sleepcat, One day they will combine and it will be scary
[06:04:03] <Beginne1> If you want to be abused
[06:04:18] <jamesd> Beginne1, yes there is hope. but it would require a lot of work, and study on your part to get past your brick wall of ignorance you have built up around your self.
[06:04:48] <Beginne1> ...
[06:04:57] <Tempt> GNU be damned. GPL be damned. RMS be damned. ESR be damned.
[06:05:44] <Beginne1> Isn't openSolaris considering GPLv3
[06:05:45] <Tempt> Just about every item of 'GNU' software worth using was independantly developed and then parked with the GNU project.
[06:05:46] <sleepcat> the gpl is tangling itself in its own ball of yarn
[06:05:49] <Beginne1> *not flame bait
[06:06:05] <jamesd> Beginne1, what did the gpl give us that couldn't of happened under the BSD license?
[06:06:06] <Tempt> Beginne1: It was mentioned, and the community voted a resounding NO.
[06:06:12] <sleepcat> the gpl 3 will split the 1% of users
[06:06:30] <sleepcat> and solaris can happily skip passed the bickering GNU fans
[06:07:05] <Beginne1> jamesd, The GPL ensures that people will not use your software and deny others the benefit to change it
[06:07:08] <sleepcat> MS was quite brilliant with the novell deal, they new that it would twist RMS's panties in a knot and he'd go over board
[06:07:19] <Beginne1> You know all the propaganda
[06:07:45] <Beginne1> GPLv3 was about tivo not Novell
[06:08:26] <sleepcat> gpl has a bunch of novell type things in there
[06:08:29] <jamesd> biginnel yes,  we all know that... but what does that give us....  a nice viral license
[06:08:43] <Tempt> alright guy
[06:08:44] <Tempt> guys
[06:08:49] <Tempt> This has been done to death.
[06:08:58] <sleepcat> lets kick Beginne1
[06:09:02] <Beginne1> next up...emacs vs Vi!
[06:09:08] <Tempt> The official stand of #opensolaris is that GPL is awful, somebody else's problem and discussion is done.
[06:09:17] <sleepcat> exactly
[06:09:22] <sleepcat> this discussion is boring
[06:09:44] <sleepcat> everyone here agrees already that the gpl sucks
[06:09:49] <Beginne1> ...
[06:10:01] *** Beginne1 was kicked by jamesd (time for you to say good night... and you thought you were going to get kicked out of  #solaris first....  you were wrong.)
[06:10:35] *** Beginner has joined #opensolaris
[06:10:56] <jmcp> and you're IRCing as root, too
[06:11:07] <Beginner> I know this
[06:11:08] <Tempt> that warrants and extra kick
[06:11:11] <Bartman007> too bad there isn't an ircop in here to kill him
[06:11:12] <jmcp> agreed
[06:11:23] <jmcp> jamesd: crank up the kicking boots again
[06:11:27] <jbk> afternoon jmcp
[06:11:28] <Beginner> You guys take this stuff way to seriously
[06:11:36] <Bartman007> Beginner: security is serious.
[06:11:51] <sleepcat> jmcp: how can one tell if someone is IRCing as root?
[06:11:55] *** jamesd sets mode: +b *!*@*.net
[06:12:04] <Beginner> banned me?
[06:12:07] <jmcp> sleepcat:     * Beginner (n=root at 67 dot 158.9.89) has joined #opensolaris
[06:12:10] <jamesd> oops sorry
[06:12:16] *** jamesd sets mode: -b Bartman007!*@*
[06:12:17] <jmcp> sleepcat: makes it pretty darned obvious
[06:12:32] *** jamesd sets mode: +b *!*n=root@67.158.9.*
[06:12:49] *** Beginner has quit IRC
[06:13:16] *** jamesd sets mode: -b *!*n=root@67.158.9.*
[06:13:34] <Tempt> Might as well leave the ban in place
[06:13:41] <Triskelios> *!* at * dot net is still banned
[06:13:43] <Tempt> or just ban root@*
[06:14:21] <jamesd> Tempt, not really...  solaris makes it hard to create users so its valid to allow a user in as root, long enough for him to learn the correct way to create a user....
[06:14:46] <jmcp> jamesd: how is running "useradd" hard?
[06:15:09] <jamesd> jmcp, because it doesn't set the passwd or account for  the automounter.
[06:15:39] <jmcp> why should useradd set the password?
[06:15:53] * jmcp senses a deep philosophical argument brewing
[06:16:02] <jamesd> jmcp, because linux refugees can be idiots at times....
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[06:16:22] <jmcp> does useradd or adduser on linux prompt you to set the initial passwd?
[06:16:22] <diomac> i was waiting for a comment like that
[06:16:27] <diomac> yes
[06:16:43] <jmcp> pandering to people who can't be arsed rtfm
[06:16:45] <Tempt> let them be idiots
[06:16:51] <Tempt> every other bloody UNIX has useradd
[06:16:55] <Tempt> leave it alone.
[06:17:38] <jamesd> i didn't say we should change it, we just should allow them in long enough to get help to get past the first hurdle.
[06:18:02] <poiewf> Are there any good books about Solaris?
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[06:18:23] <poiewf> Solaris Internels seems to be more about the kernel then administration
[06:18:45] <jamesd> poiewf, there are 100's of books about solaris,  see amazon
[06:19:39] <Tempt> Beginner [n=root at 67 dot 158.9.89] vs  poiewf [n=brad at 67 dot 158.9.89] heh
[06:19:40] <poiewf> Any recommendations?
[06:20:01] <brendang> docs.sun.com, Solaris System Administration Guides
[06:20:14] <poiewf> Ok
[06:20:28] <brendang> docs.sun.com can be hard to navigate, and slow, but finding the guides is worth it.
[06:20:41] <brendang> you can download them as PDF and get them printed too
[06:21:01] <Tempt> There is a problem with the docs though - you need to be able to read.
[06:21:19] <poiewf> I can read
[06:22:34] <Triskelios> jamesd: please unban *!* at * dot net
[06:24:47] *** jamesd sets mode: -b *!*@*.net
[06:24:52] <jamesd> i thought i had.
[06:25:19] <poiewf> Triskelios, Sorry to bother you again can can you repeat the command to show devices?
[06:25:27] <poiewf> It was something pciscan
[06:25:42] <Triskelios> prtconf -v or scanpci
[06:26:04] <sleepcat> which is the recommeded way?
[06:28:25] <jmcp> depends when information you want to get
[06:29:53] <Triskelios> prtconf is the "better" way since it just queries the kernel for the information, whereas scanpci is specific to PCI and probes the bus directly. it does have the advantage of looking up PCI IDs for you and being easy to read
[06:30:26] <poiewf> Any reason scanpci wouldn't work
[06:30:36] <poiewf> Do you need to be in a specific path?
[06:30:53] <Triskelios> you need root privileges since it accesses the hardware
[06:31:05] <poiewf> I used su
[06:31:18] <Triskelios> it should just work...
[06:32:06] <poiewf> It worked before for determining my video carf
[06:32:14] <poiewf> It was a longer command though
[06:32:39] <Triskelios> it lives in /usr/X11/bin, so you need to add that to your path or type the full path
[06:34:18] <poiewf> # pwd
[06:34:18] <poiewf> /usr/X11/bin
[06:34:18] <poiewf> # scanpci
[06:34:18] <poiewf> scanpci: not found
[06:35:53] <Triskelios> you can't just type scanpci if it's not in your PATH, from where you are you can do ./scanpci
[06:36:32] <poiewf> The working directory is not the path?
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[06:37:17] <g4lt-mordant> not unless you put it in path
[06:37:26] <g4lt-mordant> and, no, I won't tell you
[06:37:36] <Triskelios> poiewf: PATH is normally a standard set of directories like /sbin, /usr/bin, etc.
[06:38:18] <poiewf> ok
[06:39:04] <g4lt-mordant> since I happen to vehemently disagreee with . in $PATH, I'll not tell you how to add it
[06:39:10] <poiewf> ok
[06:39:17] <poiewf> One more question
[06:39:42] <poiewf> Is Solaris Express Developer edition pci plug n play?
[06:40:17] <poiewf> I switched out a Creative Audigy for a Soundblaster live after installing and it lists the Audigy as the sound card
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[06:43:09] <Triskelios> poiewf: lol, PnP is standard since the early 90s
[06:43:29] <poiewf> ok
[06:47:10] 
[06:47:55] <sleepcat> Triskelios: what is SFE on opensolaris?
[06:48:50] <poiewf> Triskelios, I'm installing it right now, would it hurt to install all the drivers?
[06:49:05] <Triskelios> sleepcat: spec-files-extra, a software repository (started  by JDS folks)
[06:49:58] <Triskelios> poiewf: audioi810 will probably conflict with the included one, skip that one
[06:50:44] <poiewf> Is there a way to download all but that?
[06:51:01] <poiewf> like 1,2
[06:51:39] <Triskelios> poiewf: you can choose which to install
[06:51:54] <Triskelios> they are seperate packages in the same file
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[06:52:04] <poiewf> Oh
[06:52:19] <poiewf> So just keep running the file and install the one-by one?
[06:52:32] <Triskelios> you only need the emu10k1 one anyway
[06:53:12] <Triskelios> oh, looks like TOOLSahlp is also needed
[06:53:20] <Triskelios> anyway those two
[06:53:36] <Triskelios> the other option is the OSS drivers from opensound
[06:53:51] <Triskelios> anyway gtg
[06:54:10] <poiewf> Thanks
[06:54:11] <poiewf> Bye
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[06:59:18] <poiewf> Good bye guys
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[07:50:48] <bda> sigh.
[07:50:49] <bda> Staging will be so much easier when it's just a zfs clone command away.
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[08:08:25] <boyd> phew... RMS didn't eat me.
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[08:08:48] <sparcdr> sorry bout that
[08:09:01] <sparcdr> so yeah does ON 75 now include xVM
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[08:09:33] <sparcdr> guess i should just look at flag days and release log
[08:09:36] <sparcdr> brb
[08:09:51] <boyd> sparcdr: yes, xVM is in b>=75
[08:09:57] <sparcdr> thanks boyd
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[08:10:13] <sparcdr> would it be safe to go from SXCE 73 -> ON 74 -> ON 75?
[08:10:49] <sparcdr> I had problems last time I fiddled with xVM is all
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[08:12:42] <sparcdr> ah yeah see it on sun download center
[08:16:25] <boyd> if you want to use it, you may like to check this thread: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=41620&tstart=0
[08:18:23] <sparcdr> k read it, saw the bug, not as big as a problem as I thought it would had been, given it's the first proper up-to-date xVM consolidation
[08:19:22] <sparcdr> thanks
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[08:21:22] <flyingparchment> does anyone know off hand if grub has support for elxl (3com 100mbit) nics?
[08:21:30] <flyingparchment> i don't think my motherboard supports pxe/undi itself..
[08:22:28] <sickness> morning all
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[08:52:31] <madhatter> morning
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[09:02:58] <tsoome> flyingparchment: its not MB question anyhow, it's about nw card (possibly integrated on MB)
[09:03:13] <flyingparchment> tsoome: yes, but if my motherboard supported pxe i wouldn't need grub
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[09:14:21] <trochej> Coffee?
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[09:23:20] <madhatter> trochej: What a great idea!
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[09:53:41] <trochej> Coffee
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[10:31:07] <Sjach> Sjach
[10:31:17] <e^ipi> that's interesting....
[10:31:22] <Sjach> Hello
[10:31:23] <g4lt-mordant> lies
[10:31:24] <e^ipi> where in the hell is this file picking up that symbol
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[10:33:11] <e^ipi> ld: fatal: symbol `__fgetwc_xpg5' is multiply-defined:
[10:33:12] <e^ipi>         (file pics/__fgetwc_xpg5.o type=FUNC; file pics/getputwc.o type=FUNC);
[10:33:18] <e^ipi> except... no it's not
[10:33:21] <e^ipi> it's not at all
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[10:42:45] <flyingparchment> e^ipi: maybe it's defined in a header?
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[10:56:13] <PerterB> use nm to determine if it really is defined in getputwc.o, and if so then cc -E or gcc -E to determine how it's getting there
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[11:14:36] <trygvis> hm, I though it was supposed to be impossible for roles to log in
[11:15:27] <trochej> It is
[11:15:32] <trochej> supposed to be impossible
[11:15:35] <trochej> Such states the gajd
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[11:30:41] <andyshack> I'm getting confused with a webserver. it has coolstack. How could I ask it if it has phpmyadmin in there somewhere ?
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[11:32:26] <quasi> andyshack: grep for something phpmyadmin-ish in /var/sadm/install/contents
[11:32:47] <andyshack> cool, thanks.
[11:34:03] <JWheeler> Hi folks, I have a bit of a tricky LU problem. I want to migrate from one HD to a new one. LU has created my second BE on the new disk, but grub is still only on the first. If I remove the first, there is no boot sector on the second. What do I do to fix this?
[11:35:12] <quasi> JWheeler: use installgrub
[11:37:31] <JWheeler> ta
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[11:38:23] <JWheeler> newb question, which slice am I aiming it at?
[11:38:30] <JWheeler> on just the raw c2d0?
[11:40:18] <quasi> what  does the docs say? ;)
[11:41:09] <JWheeler> "rdsk" *worries*
[11:42:28] <quasi> I'd put it on the root slice
[11:45:08] <quasi> http://hell.jedicoder.net/?p=26
[11:50:06] <JWheeler> In my case, I made slice0, swap. I was just copying the first disk... was that a bit of a nonstandard practice?
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[11:50:36] <JWheeler> slice 8 is "boot", with cylinders 0-0
[11:52:06] <JWheeler> right then... here we go
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[12:03:48] <trochej> Fok
[12:04:02] <trochej> Remind me, how to print error set in errno in C?
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[12:05:04] <PerterB> perror()
[12:05:51] <PerterB> or strerror() is more flexible
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[12:07:39] <trochej> thnxx
[12:09:18] <JWheeler> doh, not quite
[12:12:33] <trochej> God, i'd love to have here working dtrace
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[12:20:19] <Fish> hello
[12:35:15] <_setuid_H> Hi I have a problem with compiling ctags it throws me always  wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64
[12:35:20] <_setuid_H> my CTAGS are
[12:35:28] <_setuid_H> cflags
[12:36:30] <_setuid_H> compiling under sunstudio 11
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[12:39:12] <PerterB> something wrong with your link command and you're trying to link 32 and 64 bit objects?
[12:40:01] <_setuid_H> this all have to be 64bit
[12:40:43] <_setuid_H> I'm using standard ld /usr/bin/ld
[12:41:35] <_setuid_H> may I send here my makefile output?
[12:42:07] <trygvis> paste on rafb.net/paste
[12:43:36] <_setuid_H> done
[12:43:51] <_setuid_H> http://rafb.net/p/gUODAa67.html
[12:46:27] <PerterB> yeah, you need the -xarch=amd64 on your link command at line 54, otherwise cc will add the 32bit version of crt1.o, which will make ld think it's building a 32 bit app, so it will error when it hits your first 64 bit object
[12:46:46] <trochej> Wow
[12:47:17] <_setuid_H> I see
[12:47:18] <_setuid_H> thanks
[12:47:50] <PerterB> it's not a very descriptive error message though, I agree :)
[12:53:00] <_setuid_H> It's ok now Thanks so much
[12:53:49] <PerterB> result
[12:54:31] <_setuid_H> OK
[12:54:32] <_setuid_H> ow
[12:54:33] <_setuid_H> now
[12:54:34] <_setuid_H> thanks
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[13:36:55] <JWheeler> any tips for killing of a non-existant BE? ludelete won't let me kill it
[13:39:23] <quasi> JWheeler: what's the exact message?
[13:40:13] <JWheeler> ok... that was embarresing, it worked this time
[13:40:18] <JWheeler> :/
[13:40:38] <JWheeler> I had a zfs issue, so I failed to start fs/local, so I was just on console
[13:41:00] <JWheeler> it really wouldn't work on console, I fixed the zfs issue, booted to multiuser, and now it workse
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[13:42:27] <rcorreia> can anyone give me a hand setting up vpnc to connect to the swan?
[13:44:54] <jmcp> rcorreia: vpnc?
[13:45:19] <cmihai> Cisco-like VPN client
[13:45:29] <cmihai> (but free/open)
[13:45:32] * jmcp shudders
[13:45:44] <cmihai> Heh, beats using Cisco VPN Client
[13:46:00] <cmihai> Though I've only used it with Cisco VPN concentrators
[13:46:02] <jmcp> there's a perfectly good Sun-on-Sun option
[13:46:30] <rcorreia> jmcp: what's that? does it run on linux?
[13:46:50] <jmcp> no, it's for Solaris, or MacOS
[13:47:00] <rcorreia> I must run linux though
[13:47:07] <jmcp> must?
[13:47:10] <rcorreia> yes
[13:47:11] <jmcp> sorry to hear that :)
[13:47:17] <rcorreia> lol
[13:48:08] <rcorreia> anyway, I'm not sure what to put in the IPsec group ID and group password
[13:48:28] <jmcp> rcorreia: register with nickserv so I can send you a pm
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[13:49:01] <wizeman> jmcp: done
[13:49:17] <jmcp> PSec ID vpn
[13:49:50] <jmcp>       sudo vpnc-connect
[13:50:12] <WickedWicky> you're talking in public
[13:50:17] <jmcp> wizeman: sun.net is your friend, btw :)
[13:51:02] <wizeman> jmcp: I'm at home
[13:51:05] <Doc> i seriously doubt sun.net is anyones friend
[13:51:25] <wizeman> what's the group password?
[13:51:26] <Doc> or at least, if it is your friend i hope you have a good shrink...
[13:51:34] <wizeman> is the token code?
[13:51:55] <Doc> wizeman: wtf are you trying to do? setup VPN?
[13:52:01] <wizeman> yes
[13:52:16] <Doc> although the group password is hardly a secret, i would hope that nobody would tell it to a random person
[13:52:22] <jteo> intriguing
[13:52:39] <jmcp> wizeman: wtf are you talking about this in an *open* channel?
[13:53:14] <wizeman> I would hope the safeword tokens would be safe enough to guarantee vpn security
[13:53:26] <Doc> heh... google only finds 4 hits if you search for the password
[13:53:27] * jmcp goes to take the rubbish out
[13:53:35] <Doc> actually, make that 10
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[13:54:11] <wizeman> ok, can anyone mail it to me at Ricardo.M.Correia at sun dot com then?
[13:54:18] <wizeman> (the group password, that is)
[13:54:23] <Doc> use sun.net
[13:54:32] <Doc> and then download it from SWAN
[13:54:40] <wizeman> Doc: I'm at home
[13:54:45] <Doc> ok
[13:54:52] <Doc> use sun.net
[13:54:55] <Doc> and then download it from SWAN
[13:55:16] <wizeman> ah.. I was trying www.sun.net
[13:55:27] <wizeman> thought it was an internal address
[13:55:30] <wizeman> thanks
[13:55:57] <wizeman> sorry for the trouble
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[13:59:04] <dme> wizeman: Whilst there are two levels of security (the group password and the secureid token), knowing the group password may allow a DoS attack on the gateway.
[14:00:07] <wizeman> hmm.. I see..
[14:01:16] <wizeman> ok, sun.net is not exactly very user-friendly
[14:01:19] <Doc> dme: which is why finding it in google is interesting :)
[14:01:31] <Doc> although odds are that you wouldnt find it unless you already knew it
[14:01:32] <dme> Doc: Hey, you do what you can.
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[14:02:28] <ronsonelguapo> j #solaris
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[14:02:42] <ronsonelguapo> :)
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[14:08:26] <wizeman> what should I press when "host?" appears in my token card?
[14:08:48] <dme> 9 and the four digit challenge.
[14:11:25] <wizeman> now I'm even more confused
[14:11:26] <Cyrille> which is what appears on the page
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[14:11:54] <Cyrille> are you trying to log in sun.net or using a VPN client?
[14:12:01] <wizeman> sun.net
[14:12:40] <wizeman> it also requests me a challenge
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[14:15:13] <wizeman> should I use host 9 when logging in through sun.net?
[14:16:01] <dme> When you type your username to sun.net it should give you a challenge. Usually that is "9 ABCD", where ABCD are digits.
[14:16:04] <dme> Do you see that?
[14:16:45] <wizeman> no, sun.net is asking me to input a "Challenge ="
[14:17:25] <jmcp> wizeman: I really don't think this is appropriate conversation for a public forum
[14:17:53] <dme> wizeman: I think that you need to talk to someone in ITops.
[14:18:03] <wizeman> ok
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[14:18:22] <wizeman> where are the contacts for ITops?
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[14:20:57] <Doc> what country are you in?
[14:21:15] <wizeman> portugal
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[14:21:22] <Doc> nfi then
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[14:27:54] <dme> wizeman: Presumably you are based out of an office? Someone there should be able to help you contact ITops.
[14:28:27] <wizeman> I'm contacting the global resolution center, I think they can help me
[14:28:39] <wizeman> thanks
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[14:29:44] <wizeman> it's still kind of hard for me getting my way around the right people
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[15:06:00] <ofu> is there a tool to check if my pkg- and patch directories are correct?
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[15:11:06] <jmcp> ofu: man pkgchk
[15:11:17] <jmcp> often run as "pkgchk -nv"
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[15:51:09] <Dev_0x9> Anyone knows or has any reference on how threads behave in a multi cpu system? does it spawn on the next available cpu? or does it keep on the same cpu untill the master threads finishes?
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[15:52:39] <trygvis> they can be moved around as the OS see fit
[15:53:20] <trygvis> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_(computer_science)
[15:54:01] <Dev_0x9> ok thx
[15:54:37] <tfb> There is  bunch of documentation from Sun, also the Solaris internals book probably has plenty on this
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[16:08:47] <rasputnik> I've got a zfs filesystem that supposedly has a compressration of 1.50x. How can I check that? should du -s /filesys and df /filesys differ?
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[16:14:47] <Stric> rasputnik: du --apparent-size  vs regular du.. (using GNU du)
[16:14:59] <rasputnik> Stric: thank
[16:15:04] <rasputnik> s
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[16:31:20] <holcomb> did the SUNWcry removal stuff happen yet?
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[16:47:45] <emilianOS> hi, I have a little problem: GRUB geom error
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[16:55:07] <jteo> mm bitch-fest on xwin-discuss.
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[17:34:55] <emilianOS> are you alive?
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[17:47:43] <holcomb> is there a "recommended" way to get rid of patch backout data?
[17:48:26] <holcomb> seems like you would just erase /var/sadm/pkg/*/save/1* but there's also stuff in pspool
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[17:51:09] <|UltraSPARC|> anyone doing the "try and buy" in here?
[17:51:44] <quasi> have done
[17:53:59] <|UltraSPARC|> if approved, I'll be taking a look at the Ultra 45, which will be my first ultrasparc workstation (I have a few ultrasparc servers)
[17:54:16] <|UltraSPARC|> my business is a side project, so hopefully they give anything with a pulse approval
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[17:57:13] <timsf> hi all
[17:58:29] <Stric> holcomb: I believe the pspool thingie has something to do with zone creation
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[17:59:59] <elcuco> hi
[18:00:48] <|UltraSPARC|> I'm just really excited about the possibility of solaris development on something faster than a usparc IIe
[18:03:23] <flyingparchment> get ready for people to ask 'is that sparc or opteron?'
[18:04:03] <elcuco> i want to download opensolaris, and i am just courious about it's support of "desktop hardware"
[18:04:22] <elcuco> sata drives, intel video card, etc
[18:04:58] <elcuco> another question is, that on the download site i see 7 disks, do i need all of them? or do i need only the first one
[18:04:59] <elcuco> ?
[18:05:19] <|UltraSPARC|> elcuco: you need them all, depending on the distribution set you choose... if anything you'll need the first 6
[18:05:24] <|UltraSPARC|> might as well grab all 7
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[18:05:57] <|UltraSPARC|> http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/
[18:06:02] <|UltraSPARC|> that's the hardware compat list
[18:06:04] <elcuco> whats the difference between community and developer? (dvd it is them)
[18:06:23] <|UltraSPARC|> aside from the clear definition provided on the website?
[18:06:30] * elcuco rtfms
[18:06:56] <sommerfeld> sxce comes out every 2 weeks.  sxde comes out about 4x a year
[18:06:59] <|UltraSPARC|> dev is a longer release period, so it's a bit more "stable"
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[18:07:17] <|UltraSPARC|> ce can have all the tools of dev if you install them separately
[18:08:07] <|UltraSPARC|> ce is the more "current" (to use a BSD-ism)
[18:08:14] <elcuco> is "debian" speak, dev=stable ce=testing?
[18:08:24] <elcuco> he he... linux dud here, not bsd :)
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[18:08:58] <elcuco> more productive question: zfs, dftrace - on which flavor?
[18:09:09] <|UltraSPARC|> solaris 10 has all of that...
[18:09:14] <|UltraSPARC|> so either
[18:09:55] <|UltraSPARC|> but ufs is the default filesystem, even in ce
[18:10:03] <|UltraSPARC|> zfs is supported
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[18:22:38] <axisys> anyone know what key combination of a cisco console server gives the esc+( signal to a x2100?
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[18:23:29] <flyingparchment> axisys: just press ESC and (
[18:23:57] <axisys> flyingparchment: it does not take it.. tried that actually beofre asking
[18:24:18] <flyingparchment> axisys: separately, not as one key press, right?
[18:24:21] <|UltraSPARC|> you may not have your term type properly defined
[18:24:37] <axisys> i tried on few of my x2100 that are connected to remote site and cisco console server is used for console access
[18:25:25] <axisys> flyingparchment: i am actually familiar with that esc ( .. i used it sevaral times when my laptop is connected to rs232 port
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[18:30:51] <l1s> hi all
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[18:31:37] <l1s> why does the autolayouter create the biggest size for /export/home?
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[18:35:13] <|UltraSPARC|> does it matter?
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[18:35:26] <|UltraSPARC|> you can re-size to your taste
[18:35:35] <l1s> does everything get installed in /export/home ?!?
[18:35:47] <|UltraSPARC|> it depends on how you prefer it
[18:35:57] <|UltraSPARC|> things can be, yes
[18:36:12] <l1s> with the standart installation?
[18:36:33] <|UltraSPARC|> no, the distribution set software is installed to /usr, etc
[18:36:39] <l1s> i just want to install solaris completely + additional 8gb
[18:36:48] <|UltraSPARC|> it won't size it to the point that it cannot install itself...
[18:37:19] <|UltraSPARC|> so... resize it to your preference, I don't really understand the problem
[18:37:38] <l1s> i dont know what partition is used to store all software
[18:37:47] <l1s> ah slice
[18:38:24] <l1s> and how big should the / slice be?
[18:38:30] <|UltraSPARC|> software is scattered based on type
[18:38:36] <|UltraSPARC|> slices are sized based on need
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[18:38:44] <sarah> l1s... depends on whether you separate out /var, /usr /opt
[18:39:01] <sarah> in general /, including /var, ... should be ~7GB. To account for future upgrades.
[18:39:29] <|UltraSPARC|> I would avoid an integrated /var or /tmp, to account for runaway logs or other bad things
[18:39:30] <l1s> sarah, hm i just want one / slice... but it does not work since i need the / slice to be within the first 1024 cyl
[18:40:12] <|UltraSPARC|> and 7GB is totally overkill if you have major dirs as slices mounting to /
[18:40:34] <|UltraSPARC|> all the software you'll install system-wide will go to /usr and /opt, it's really that simple
[18:40:36] <sarah> l1s.. how many bytes per cylinder for this disk.
[18:40:51] <l1s> sarah, now i thought about creating 4 slices but i dont know how big they should be
[18:41:00] <l1s> where to i see that
[18:41:11] <l1s> ah
[18:41:12] <l1s> 2 sec
[18:41:18] <sarah> well.. when you run the installer it tells you what it thinks the min should be for each slice
[18:41:25] <tsoome> give 30% more for future upgrades;)
[18:41:27] <sarah> it calculates the size for you based on the distro.
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[18:41:47] <|UltraSPARC|> yes, the mins + 30% is a great baseline
[18:41:48] <l1s> 7,8463227222832052689352360043908
[18:41:49] <l1s> mb
[18:41:56] <sarah> 7GB is overkill if you have separate /var, /usr.. but not if it is all in /
[18:42:11] <|UltraSPARC|> right
[18:42:38] <l1s> sarah but where is all the software installed, /usr? like in linux?
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[18:42:42] <|UltraSPARC|> if you don't have /usr /opt /var /tmp, you'll want a good deal of your space devoted to /
[18:42:48] <|UltraSPARC|> l1s: as I said earlier, yes
[18:42:53] <sarah> l1s.. yes in /usr. but also in /var, /opt...
[18:43:05] <sarah> mostly in /usr...
[18:43:29] <|UltraSPARC|> blastwave and the sun studio are two notable /opt lovers
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[18:43:35] <sarah> the installer will help you with this.
[18:43:38] <l1s> ok, thanks
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[18:43:49] <timsf> hey folks - don
[18:43:58] <sarah> run it, it will recommend the sizes and only allow it to proceed if it thinks you met the min requirement for space.
[18:43:58] <timsf> 't suppose I could ask a favour ?
[18:44:35] <timsf>  I'm in MPK17 for a few days, and flex workspaces are short to come by - I've got an office from a departed co-worker, but need a Sun->VGA adaptor for my laptop to work
[18:44:41] <timsf> can anyone help?
[18:45:05] <timsf> damn - wrong channel!
[18:45:17] <|UltraSPARC|> thanks for the spam
[18:45:18] <|UltraSPARC|> ;)
[18:45:29] <|UltraSPARC|> j/k
[18:45:41] <|UltraSPARC|> good luck, that sort of thing is frustrating
[18:45:47] <g4lt-sb100> more importatnly, you don't carry one? some sparc-nut YOU are ;P
[18:46:00] <timsf> Yeah, my own fault :-/
[18:47:54] <Dev_0x9> from open boot can you get the mac address of an eri card?
[18:48:16] <g4lt-sb100> yes
[18:48:26] <g4lt-sb100> it's in the banner
[18:48:32] <Dev_0x9> ahh ok
[18:48:41] <Dev_0x9> duh, never bother to look at that
[18:48:47] <Dev_0x9> thx
[18:48:55] <l1s> is 6gb enough for /opt?
[18:49:07] <cmihai> Nyes.
[18:49:09] <Dev_0x9> yes
[18:49:15] <Dev_0x9> btw how big is your hardrive?
[18:49:20] <l1s> is it to big?
[18:49:24] <cmihai> Ehem
[18:49:27] <l1s> 30gb
[18:49:43] <cmihai> Nothing gets installed in /opt by default, unless you install the development stuff (Sun Studio, NetBeans, etc);
[18:49:56] <cmihai>  /opt will grow if you use 3rd party stuff like Blastwave that uses /opt.
[18:50:00] <sarah> l1s...depends on how much extra stuff you install.
[18:50:13] <cmihai> Since we don't know WHAT you are going to install, we really can't give you an estimate.
[18:50:16] <sarah> by default Solaris doesn't install much in there, but a lot of addon stuff adds size in there.
[18:50:26] <l1s> . /=8gb /usr=15gb /var=3gb
[18:50:35] <l1s> a ton of extra stuff
[18:50:38] <cmihai> 15GB /usr?
[18:50:38] <l1s> :D
[18:50:39] <cmihai> Nah
[18:50:41] <cmihai> Skip that
[18:50:48] <l1s> ok
[18:50:48] <Dev_0x9> you might want to add some more space to /var
[18:50:52] <cmihai> with such a small disk, just make one /
[18:51:00] <sarah> l1s.. what about /export?
[18:51:02] <l1s> i does not work
[18:51:18] <sarah> do you want that space for home dirs?
[18:51:21] <Dev_0x9> are you using anything like veritas?
[18:51:24] <l1s> it tells me that blabla / need to be withing the first 1024cyl
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[18:51:51] <cmihai>  /, swap, /altroot, /export/home
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[18:52:21] <l1s> sarah, hm, yes /home is important
[18:52:25] <cmihai> There is no /home
[18:52:36] <cmihai>  /home is the home of the automounter. /export/home keeps user home dirs.
[18:53:05] <sarah> right use /export/home
[18:53:07] <sarah> for local stuff.
[18:54:59] <l1s> what else is in /export?
[18:55:18] <l1s> only home?
[18:55:21] <sarah> depends...
[18:55:32] <l1s> i just knew you would say something like that...
[18:55:34] <sarah> I have /home. I have other things as well like test dirs and stuff.
[18:55:34] <l1s> :D
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[18:56:01] <sarah> I use /export for everything but solaris...
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[19:00:55] <ofu> shouldnt nv75 contain xen/xVM?
[19:00:57] <chris_d> I'm having ZFS problems. I added a USB drive and moved the ZIL to the USB drive.
[19:01:30] <chris_d> I removed the USB drive to test ZIL failure. After rebooting the server, I can no longer import the pool--it complains about the missing USB drive.
[19:01:43] <g4lt-sb100> l1s, /export/zones....
[19:02:03] <chris_d> I attached another USB drive, but it gets connected to a different drive designator.
[19:02:21] <chris_d> zpool import still fails, still cannot see the USB drive
[19:02:33] <chris_d> I'd like to simply remove the USB drive from the pool.
[19:02:53] <l1s> is 10gb to big for /??
[19:03:15] * g4lt-sb100 typically uses 1-5 for /
[19:03:25] <l1s> i create mounts for /usr /var /export /opt
[19:03:40] <h3sp4wn> can be tiny then
[19:03:41] <l1s> hm, ok
[19:03:44] <h3sp4wn>  / can be tiny then
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[19:04:01] <l1s> 3gb?
[19:04:08] <l1s> yai use 3, now
[19:04:09] <g4lt-sb100> you know, perhaps you ought not to do /opt or /export, they make nice zfs volumes
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[19:05:28] <|UltraSPARC|> heh, I received an email regarding my application as a business for the try and buy program (they couldn't find credit info for my business, since I'd never applied for credit as my business)
[19:05:35] <|UltraSPARC|> I hope it's approved
[19:05:44] * elektronkind makes / (slice 0), /var (slice 3), and /local (slice 7). /local is typically also a zfs volume of most the disk and I break filesysyems off of it to mount where I need them (eg: /opt, home)
[19:05:45] <Pietro_S> l1s: /opt you can mount after installing it fist to / slice so I would use 10GB as / (minimal 5GB)
[19:06:12] <ofu> chris_d: can you attach another device (the correct usb drive)?
[19:06:23] * |UltraSPARC| is paranoid and old-school, so I have a slice for every "traditional" unix dir
[19:06:38] <|UltraSPARC|> *except on workstations
[19:06:41] <chris_d> ofu: The original USB drive is unavailable.
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[19:10:04] <l1s> nah, 10gb is to big
[19:11:03] <l1s> is X installed in /usr or /opt?
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[19:13:01] <|UltraSPARC|> x is installed to /usr
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[19:16:11] <l1s> now /=2gb /usr=11gb /export=5gb /var=3gb /opt=6gb
[19:16:14] <l1s> f2
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[19:16:43] <kaiwai> hmm
[19:16:58] <elektronkind> separating / and /usr seems a little unjustified to me
[19:17:18] <kaiwai> in regards to?
[19:17:32] <elektronkind> kaiwai: something that was posted just before you popped in here
[19:17:42] <kaiwai> ah
[19:17:47] <elektronkind> <l1s> now /=2gb /usr=11gb /export=5gb /var=3gb /opt=6gb
[19:17:47] <kjetilho> l1s: ideally you'd keep a small / and make everything else ZFS (with specific mount points specified for volumes /usr, /var and /opt)
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[19:17:59] <kjetilho> unfortunaly that breaks zones
[19:18:03] <kaiwai> dear god
[19:18:04] <h3sp4wn> l1s: If you are doing that you would probably for a workstation only need 512MB / (That is on the safe side) and 256MB for /var
[19:18:07] <kaiwai> I hate people like that
[19:18:35] <kaiwai> christ, why not have a damn mount point for every directory on the whole system if one is going to be that stupid
[19:18:42] <elektronkind> 256MB for /var ? what, is your main disk a usb thumbdrive or something?
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[19:19:06] <kjetilho> you can't do any patching at all with 256 MB /var
[19:20:22] <l1s> about 10% space made up by the autolayout is consumed in addition for every upgrade...
[19:20:25] <h3sp4wn> /var/tmp wherever there is space
[19:20:46] <l1s> hmmm, anyway i install :D thanks all
[19:20:50] <kaiwai> l1s: why all those directories/mount points?
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[19:21:11] <estibi> :)
[19:21:35] <l1s> becouse the installer tells me i cant create one / slice outside from the first 1024 cyls
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[19:21:44] <l1s> outside of the
[19:21:49] <kaiwai> hmm, what version of solaris is it?
[19:21:55] <l1s> b70
[19:22:08] <kaiwai> hmm, must be a crusty old bios if that is appearing
[19:22:09] <l1s> b73 does not install at all...
[19:22:32] <l1s> from 2000 or 2001
[19:22:35] <|UltraSPARC|> yea, we should all just have a / and swap...
[19:22:40] <|UltraSPARC|> otherwise we're just "dumbasses"
[19:22:53] <kaiwai> I'm running B74, but loading up B71, unmounting, mount B74 dvd and continue the installer :)
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[19:23:19] <l1s> |UltraSPARC|: i did not got his point either...
[19:23:25] <kaiwai> |UltraSPARC|: No, don't try to be 'l33t' but out wankering others by virtue of multime mountpoints when not needed
[19:23:33] <l1s> |UltraSPARC|: for normal i also create a /boot... :D but im not on linux anymore
[19:23:36] <kaiwai> *by
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[19:23:56] <|UltraSPARC|> kaiwai: the thing is, you don't know what his needs are
[19:24:12] <|UltraSPARC|> yet, in an effort to display your love of "wanking" publicly, you spoke-out
[19:24:17] <|UltraSPARC|> funny how that works
[19:24:34] <kaiwai> |UltraSPARC| I said wankering, not wanker
[19:26:14] <cub-> anybody here have experience with Sun T3 array ?
[19:26:38] <|UltraSPARC|> l1s: at any rate, it's sane administration to partition to your needs... ignoring random passer-by
[19:26:39] <kaiwai> I'm sure |UltraSPARC| can help you, given he has marked him self as all knowing guru
[19:27:01] <|UltraSPARC|> kawai: prior to your pontification, numerous people assisted l1s
[19:27:09] <|UltraSPARC|> kaiwai, even
[19:27:11] <|UltraSPARC|> as if it matters ;)
[19:27:39] <l1s> hm
[19:27:41] <l1s> :(
[19:28:00] <l1s> kaiwai: i am basicly not here to afront each other...
[19:28:11] <|UltraSPARC|> l1s: you'll definitely get a feel for partitioning, but what you have is a workable baseline... you don't "really" need a /usr and /opt, but it's not a bad thing
[19:28:28] <l1s> kaiwai: and you should listen, before you do a statement...
[19:28:55] <|UltraSPARC|> I have seen one too many runaway logs hose / when there wasn't a /var ;)... which points to other problems, but problems that wouldn't have brought down the system on their own
[19:28:58] <l1s> not that i hate you kaiwai but its better to talk about problems... or they will get bigger and bigger between people
[19:29:10] <kaiwai> l1s: I wasn't here, but given the number of mount points mentioned, it seemed excessive for what needed to be accomplished
[19:29:10] <l1s> that why all girls want to talk each day, maybe...
[19:29:29] <cub-> I thought kaiwai was trying to help, he  now get lectured by someone who needs help ?
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[19:29:43] <|UltraSPARC|> cub-: help?  try scrolling back
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[19:29:54] <cub-> i've just joined  :P
[19:29:58] <l1s> hm, my workplan did moved again.
[19:30:15] <h3sp4wn> l1s: You might wish to read the bit about live upgrade and decide whether you wish to use it or not
[19:30:30] <cub-> actually, I do have  only  /  and swap  on my servers also
[19:30:37] <l1s> first i need to upgrade the bios again, then i need to add my pccard driver, then i can mess around with scriptthings...
[19:30:46] <l1s> rround
[19:30:53] <l1s> mhh hungy
[19:31:14] <h3sp4wn> l1s: It needs a spare partition ]#
[19:31:15] <|UltraSPARC|> cub-: which is the opposite of recommended... but if you're having luck with it then it meets your needs which was the original point
[19:32:37] <cub-> in the old days when the disk drives were so small that the logs fill up quickly , multiple FS  were alright
[19:33:30] <|UltraSPARC|> they're still alright, and logs still fill-up eventually
[19:33:35] <kaiwai> and with multiple partitions, if you have a server,you aren't going to put all those user files on the same hard disk as everything else - a single point of failure
[19:33:39] <|UltraSPARC|> berating someone for being prudent isn't exactly helpful
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[19:34:10] <|UltraSPARC|> and it's a 30GB hard disk, not a multi TB fibre channel array
[19:34:17] <|UltraSPARC|> then again, if you had read you'd know ;)
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[19:34:46] <cub-> you have a 30G hard disk ?
[19:34:49] <|UltraSPARC|> we discussed all the options, and l1s settled on what was best for him/her
[19:34:50] <WickedWicky> *burp*
[19:35:14] <cub-> oh, someone is trying to buy the 30G hard disk from you ?
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[19:35:40] <kaiwai> |UltraSPARC| Yeah but there are idiots who have hard disks, a desktop or workstation, and insist on using as many mount point as they can dream up; thats why I came in all guns blazing, having seen the stupidity taken by some who think the measuremen of 'geekdome' is a direct derivative of the complex nature of their setup.
[19:35:41] <|UltraSPARC|> no... l1s was looking for tips on slicing a 30GB HD
[19:36:21] <WickedWicky> . / swap /var /opt
[19:36:36] <WickedWicky> that's what i have, not the dot, of course
[19:36:44] <|UltraSPARC|> what, no dot?!
[19:36:49] <WickedWicky> no dot
[19:36:50] <kjetilho> a single / is very annoying since it increases the chances of long downtime in single-user
[19:37:00] <kjetilho> but everything OS related can be in one partition IMHO
[19:37:20] <WickedWicky> I dont like the fact that some verbose logging application can fill up my root slice
[19:37:51] <WickedWicky> seperate opt I use to prevent having to reinstall oracle and such when things go beserk with the operating system
[19:38:41] <|UltraSPARC|> yea, for a workstation generally you need only slice things you want to keep in the event of OS reinstallation, or to prevent runaway processes or logs from eating root
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[19:48:50] <Pietro_S> how old is Developer Edition 09/07? - better to say what build number os sxce it is??
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[19:53:36] <Pietro_S> SSun Prague team suggest to give me 30 pieces of 09/07 for my presentation on local OpenSolaris/Linux party ... and cause I'm not fun of developer eddition I'm not sure if it will be the right things - I don't want to show some features and then give students dvd which don't allow these features ...
[19:54:20] <Pietro_S> any critical bugs according to sxde 09/07 ?
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[20:02:03] <kaiwai> Pietro_S: apart from a large number of DVD drives unsupported
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[20:07:17] <l1s> hm, a fix to support more dvd drives is by changing one value with a hexeditor
[20:07:26] <l1s> i just read that at some os list...
[20:07:47] <kaiwai> l1s: it was fixed in B75, ata update to the drive
[20:08:21] <kaiwai> I'm going to wait a while before upgradeing to the next version of SXCE given the 'buggy as hell' nature of JDS currently
[20:08:24] <l1s> but b75 is not realeased is it?
[20:08:35] <kaiwai> yeap, B75 of ONNV is
[20:08:48] <kaiwai> http://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/b75/
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[20:09:07] <l1s> wow
[20:09:15] <l1s> is it the original b75 one?
[20:09:29] <l1s> aaah its the bfu thing
[20:09:35] <kaiwai> yeap
[20:09:47] <kaiwai> hence I said it is the ONNV
[20:09:50] <l1s> hm, i upgrade if it arrives released
[20:09:57] <l1s> i did not know that shorting :D sry
[20:11:22] <l1s> hm, i wonder if there are any playstation iso hacks for ff7
[20:11:29] <l1s> i do not want to play it to the end again
[20:12:03] <kaiwai> final fantasy?
[20:12:11] <l1s> jub
[20:12:38] <l1s> great game...
[20:12:58] <l1s> the next thing i will buy is a psp or ps2
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[20:13:11] <bigjohnto> how can i replace a certain column of values with another value? for example a document has N number of rows and 5 columns i need to replace the 4th column values with a 0 instead of their current value?
[20:13:34] <l1s> you can create raw isos from psx cds with a original sony tool and upload them to the psp
[20:14:06] <l1s> bigjonto is it related to solaris or a database?
[20:14:39] <bigjohnto> well it is a txt file with values and i am using solaris
[20:14:59] <l1s> seperated with comma?
[20:15:09] <l1s> csv file?
[20:15:10] <bigjohnto> no tabs
[20:15:27] <l1s> hmmm, wait 2 secs
[20:15:34] <l1s> thought i have a script what does such a task
[20:15:45] <bigjohnto> oh
[20:16:01] <bigjohnto> i thought the vi editor would be able to do it
[20:16:40] <l1s> yes, you could go to the position you want to start replace
[20:17:08] <l1s> then you execute the write command N times
[20:17:42] <bigjohnto> any hints :)
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[20:19:23] <l1s> hm, not yet... try vi
[20:19:26] <l1s> #vi
[20:19:32] <l1s> or #vim
[20:20:27] <l1s> http://www.vim.org/tips/tip.php?tip_id=422
[20:20:51] <bigjohnto> thanks
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[20:48:14] <paul> hmm.. quick question: how does one get a zone working again after a liveupgrade?
[20:48:57] <paul> zoneadm -z zone boot says: zone 'zone': must be installed before boot.
[20:48:59] <paul> hmm
[20:50:17] <quasi> paul: what does zoneadm list -vc say about the status of the zone?
[20:50:40] <paul> incomplete
[20:51:14] <Pietro_S> kaiwai: thanks for info
[20:52:30] <Triskelios> paul: hm, did the LU appear to upgrade the zone correctly?
[20:54:07] <paul> i didnt really pay attention, and it didn't.
[20:54:45] <paul> error copying root
[20:54:46] <paul> bah
[20:55:48] <paul> also, zones on ZFS... doesn't seem to play well with LU. Is that to be expected, or have i missed something?
[20:56:15] <quasi> zones on zfs is unsupported
[20:56:22] <Triskelios> that is expected
[20:56:33] <holcomb> i thought there was supposed to be a patch recently...
[20:56:34] <quasi> LU and zfs doesn't work
[20:56:37] <Triskelios> it copies the zone to the alternate root
[20:56:45] <Triskelios> so you have to move it back to zfs
[20:57:31] <paul> yeah, which apparently didn't quite work somehow :(
[20:58:36] <paul> anyway, there was nothing there i cant recover
[20:58:43] * paul uninstalls and reinstalls the zone
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[20:59:29] <Triskelios> in the future, make sure LU did the right thing. my guess is the duplication part failed, you might actually have the copy the zone contents by hand if it doesn't
[20:59:37] <Triskelios> er, if it doesn't succeed
[21:00:15] <quasi> I think the way to go about it could be to detach the zone and attach it after lu
[21:00:16] <Triskelios> this unfortunately also screws up zones that were clones
[21:00:27] <Triskelios> the zone's package info will be incorrect
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[21:00:39] <Triskelios> if it's not processed by LU
[21:00:46] <paul> meh, i'll just recreate it. If the old zone is still there, it's not going to boot anyway (S10 userspace, host is now snv)
[21:01:56] <quasi> Triskelios: I was thinking whole root
[21:02:29] <paul> full zones + etude branding might fix this in future..
[21:02:32] <Triskelios> quasi: they never get upgraded then =\
[21:03:10] <quasi> Triskelios: but you could do that yourself inside a whole root zone
[21:03:22] <paul> if we made it a requirement to that each new supported release had brands for all previous. (ie each release, add brand for the previous)
[21:03:29] <paul> anyway.
[21:03:36] <Triskelios> quasi: yeah, I wasn't sure, but I suppose so
[21:04:02] <quasi> Triskelios: at this point I'm only guessing as well ;)
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[21:19:21] <kaiwai> I hope they issue another GNOME 2.20 build
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[21:22:19] <Triskelios> kaiwai: are you having problems with vermillion_75 as well?
[21:22:30] <kaiwai> yeap
[21:22:36] <kaiwai> buggier than a hooker on k-road
[21:22:52] <Triskelios> can you list them?
[21:23:12] <kaiwai> Rhythmbox isn't in the menu; evolution doesn't launch, very slow startup/logout
[21:23:25] <Triskelios> you have the 2-minute login problem too?
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[21:23:46] <kaiwai> well, its faster than 2 minutes, but still pretty damn slow
[21:24:39] <kaiwai> and the sound recorder is still broken - no opensound integration
[21:24:54] <Triskelios> evo works for me, I didn't notice rhythmbox was missing until you mentioned it
[21:25:07] <Triskelios> (I've been using banshee and last-exit)
[21:25:25] <Triskelios> my login delay might be related to mdns
[21:25:26] <kaiwai> banshee on solaris?
[21:25:31] <e^ipi> hmm... anyone happen to know what an FRU is?
[21:25:34] <Triskelios> uh-huh
[21:25:44] <trygvis> field replaceable unit
[21:25:45] <kaiwai> hmm, never could get the damn thing to compile
[21:25:55] <Triskelios> kaiwai: SFEbanshee?
[21:26:09] <kaiwai> yeah, but the whole SFE thing is broken
[21:26:18] <Triskelios> no, it's not
[21:26:41] <kaiwai> dependencies don't resolve, files don't download - I'm basically pushed to the point of manually applying patches and compiling manually
[21:27:45] <kaiwai> same thing happened with trying to compile JDS - files don't download, things constantly fail when compiling
[21:28:47] <Triskelios> uh... could you be more specific? most of the packages look fine to me. banshee does need SFEavahi-sharp and the SFEavahi package used to conflict with vermillion_75's SUNWavahi-bridge-dsd, but I made SFEavahi-sharp seperate recently
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[21:29:27] <kaiwai> it just seems when I try to compile anything from SFE and/or JDS, everything breaks
[21:29:52] <Triskelios> does sound like you have a build environment problem, aside from possibly flakey sourceforge URLs in some packages
[21:30:15] <kaiwai> oh well, gtkpod works, 2.18.2 works
[21:30:16] <Triskelios> well, hopefully there will be a binary package repo for SFE in the near future...
[21:30:30] <kaiwai> hmm, for some reason I doubt it'll happen
[21:30:44] <e^ipi> so a CPU fru is the CPU card
[21:30:48] <Triskelios> kaiwai: why? I'll set up an ipkg server myself if need be]
[21:31:27] <kaiwai> Triskelios: have you built all the packages?
[21:31:34] <HCoyote> question regarding NCQ:  does 10u4 support NCQ on sata drives?  How would I tell if NCQ is working?  I think someone in here said that the actv column would be >1 in iostat but I can't remember.
[21:32:05] <Triskelios> kaiwai: about a third (~200) of them on x86, and maybe a dozen on sparc
[21:32:35] <phrost> anyone have a recent xen domU image/kernel for OS?
[21:32:38] <kaiwai> ah, oh well, worse case, if GNOME 2.20 turns out to be shit, I'll wait till KDE is made available for solaris
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[21:33:02] <e^ipi> and it's decidedly not a good thing if OFW can't find the CPU FRU
[21:35:15] <Triskelios> kaiwai: I'll be discussing getting pkgbase or another repository integrated with Indiana at the summit this weekend and using SFE to stage packages
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[21:35:36] <millhouse> hey
[21:35:45] <millhouse> i have a backup question....
[21:35:56] <kaiwai> Triskelios: it just would be nice for a 'weekly build' of SFE and JDS to be done each week - I mean, it can be cron'ed
[21:36:30] <Triskelios> kaiwai: yeah, someone else has an automated build going, but not for distributing the packages yet
[21:36:42] <millhouse> what software is available for Solaris/OpenSolaris that would allow me to do keep a mirror between a "main" and a "backup" fileserver?  The mirror needs to be in real-time (or near)
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[21:36:58] <kaiwai> hi Gman
[21:38:05] <Gman> hi kaiwai
[21:38:44] <kaiwai> hmm, know whats the stat on GNOME 2.20 and Solaris?
[21:38:53] <stevel> hey glynn
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[21:40:58] <Gman> kaiwai, b75
[21:41:02] <Gman> stevel, hi there!
[21:41:24] * kaiwai cries
[21:41:39] <kaiwai> I hope not, Vermillian is as buggy as a hooker on k-road
[21:41:50] <Pietro_S> I think that Shiv has autobuilding thing for SFE
[21:43:21] <Pietro_S> kaiwai: I wouldn't call vermillion so buggy - but I use xfce as desktop so I guess I miss lot's of bugs in JDS ;-)
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[21:43:39] <kaiwai> Pietro_S: the joy of bugginess
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[21:44:07] <kaiwai> Pietro_S: its like the fabulous hooker you see on holiday then later find out that the only thing you missed out on is catching 'the drips'
[21:44:20] <kaiwai> for me, I'm waiting for KDE 4.0
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[21:45:54] <Pietro_S> kaiwai: I don't why there is such big noise about K* things - like Kaiwai, KDE, KOffice and the rest ;-)
[21:46:41] <kaiwai> KOffice is better than OpenOffice, Konqueror is alot nicer than Firefox, Kopete has alot better msn compataibility etc.
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[21:47:37] <Triskelios> yeah, I miss konq...
[21:48:22] <kaiwai> the fonts are also alot nicer
[21:48:54] <Triskelios> uh, that can't be true; freetype is the renderer in all cases
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[21:50:13] <kaiwai> hmm, believe me, smoother in Konqueror for example
[21:50:59] <kaiwai> firefox to me always seems to be like a half-assed, half-baked friday job with running on *NIX being a last minute idea
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[21:53:04] <kaiwai> on a good side though, the latest lame, 3.8beta5 doesn't need patches to compile
[21:53:13] <kaiwai> *3.98
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[22:09:40] <Pietro_S> ;-) kaiwai the only think which you force me to say is that KDE made big step from version 3y ago (at that time I tried it and was very angry ==> never use KDE at all)
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[22:10:56] <Pietro_S> good night
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[22:33:45] <Teknix> any idea what happened to cuddletech.com?
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[23:02:49] <Teltariat> Teknix: I recall he got spammed heavy.  He shut down the site shortly after that to redesign, but I don't know what happened since.  Hes probably turned off to the whole thing now.
[23:03:04] <Teknix> ah
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[23:19:15] <elektronkind> anyone know of a good opensource snmp trap manager?
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[23:22:25] <PerterB> hmm, "good" and "snmp", there's two words you don't often see together
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[23:27:20] <Triskelios> seen just now when upgrading snv_74 sparc: "/sbin/install-solaris: c#: command not found"
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[23:38:14] <Triskelios> yay, evince produces blank output
[23:38:18] <Triskelios> when printing
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