[00:00:13] <iron_angel> Failing that, I can almost certainly build it with gcc against blastwave libs.
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[00:02:44] <bda> http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2200143/linus-irate-linux-smacking # whew boy.
[00:03:12] <Pietro_S> iron_angel: doug would be surelly happy with successful report on sparcs - did you try also to compile godies (panel's plugins, thunar plugins) on sparc? (as goodies maintainer I would love to hear good stories) ;-)
[00:03:36] <iron_angel> goodies worked fine.
[00:03:50] <iron_angel> this was on b63, BTW. Gonna try on b73 later.
[00:04:06] <iron_angel> (test systems will be a Blade 2000, an Ultra 10, and if I can un-brick it, an Ultra 80)
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[00:18:23] <Teltariat> Greets folks
[00:18:28] <stevel> has anyone gotten snv_73 to boot up in vmware fusion at all?
[00:19:16] <Teltariat> jmcp: ping
[00:20:02] <e^ipi> it works in parallels
[00:20:15] <Teltariat> Ey' there Mr. E.
[00:20:40] <Teltariat> Trying to decide on ZFS layout.
[00:20:52] <Teltariat> Wondering if it makes sense to have an /opt in its own ZFS dataset
[00:21:06] <Teltariat> since usually stuff in opt shouldn't care more or less which version of Nevada is running
[00:21:10] <Pietro_S> iron_angel: thanks - please report it in desktop-discuss
[00:21:16] <stevel> e^ipi: yeah, it's just that i already have a vmware fusion license - and don't have a parallels one :)
[00:21:17] <iron_angel> alright, cool.
[00:21:25] <e^ipi> I have /opt on a zvol
[00:22:39] <Pietro_S> iron_angel: if you would find  some xfce-goodies which isn't still ported, ping me - I'm a bit busy so I hate random choice which I port (mostly the easier wins :-( )
[00:24:22] * iron_angel nods
[00:24:25] <iron_angel> Duly noted
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[00:35:14] <jmcp> Teltariat: gday
[00:36:08] <jmcp> Teltariat: I'd suggest that if you want to separate out stuff in /opt, then have /opt/csw, /opt/local, /opt/SUNWspro, /opt/netbeans* on a different zfs to the standard installed stuff that goes in /opt/
[00:36:34] <Teltariat> jmcp: G'day to you.  Thanks, thats really what I was wondering. :)
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[00:37:44] <Teltariat> I was doing zfs root and thinking I would keep different roots as /rootpool/snv_69, /rootpool/snv_73, etc.
[00:37:54] <jmcp> seems like a reasonable idea to me
[00:37:57] <Teltariat> I was trying to figure which filesystems could be shared between them all
[00:38:02] <jmcp> oh
[00:38:05] <jmcp> yeah
[00:38:09] <jmcp> split out the ones I mentioned
[00:38:14] <Teltariat>  /usr is no, but /opt is a maybe
[00:38:52] <Teltariat> Its been a while since I last used Blastwave, but Blastwave's utilities were in /opt/csw, but didn't it put its stuff in /usr...?  Oh wait, no, I'm thinking about SunFreeware
[00:39:03] <jmcp> yeah
[00:39:09] <jmcp> blastwave sticks to /opt/csw
[00:39:11] <Teltariat> By "stuff", I mean the applications Blastwave installed for you
[00:39:26] <Teltariat> well alright, thats cool
[00:39:29] <Teltariat> I can do that anytime later then
[00:40:05] <Teltariat> So if one would have different datasets for different "roots", wouldn't it make sense to have a /rootpool/boot ?
[00:40:29] <Teltariat> I read that zpool.cache keeps track of a special host "installation ID".  That would likely change for each root
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[00:40:35] <Teltariat> I imagine that might cause problems, no?
[00:40:45] <jmcp> I don't think that's quite right
[00:41:05] <Teltariat> Educate me, oh learned master
[00:41:09] * jmcp snorts
[00:41:15] <jmcp> the /etc/zfs/zpool.cache file contains the devids <->zpool mapping
[00:41:56] <jmcp> if you were going to have separate builds in separate rootpool/rootfs containers, then each rootfs should have its own /boot
[00:42:22] <Teltariat> And I would have to build the miniroot for each
[00:42:26] <Teltariat> sounds fun. :|
[00:42:29] <jmcp> yah
[00:42:38] <jmcp> for various and highly-different values thereof
[00:42:43] * jmcp wonders where his coffee went to
[00:42:53] <jmcp> hmm time for noe
[00:42:54] <jmcp> one
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[00:45:59] <Triskelios> Gman: looks like I'll be car pooling with you guys on Friday if you don't mind waiting
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[00:48:31] <Gman> Triskelios, cool, sounds great
[00:49:08] <Gman> Triskelios, just let sara know if you haven't already :)
[00:50:21] <Triskelios> yeah, I got the OK from Sara already, just letting you know since my flight doesn't get in until 5:50
[00:50:30] <Gman> ok, awesome
[00:50:36] <Gman> i think i'm the driver
[00:50:39] <Gman> but i might let her drive ;)
[00:51:26] <jbk> she's flying in from austin right?
[00:52:40] <Gman> yeah
[00:52:49] <Gman> me too
[00:53:27] <Teltariat> jmcp: thanks for your help
[00:53:40] * seanmcg wonders if Gman ever stands still on this planet :)
[00:53:55] <Gman> seanmcg, 5 conferences in 14 days ;)
[00:53:58] <jbk> i was gonna crack a joke about texas drivers :)
[00:54:12] <jbk> (note: I live in houston)
[00:54:25] <jbk> and just spent the weekend in austin
[00:54:39] <Gman> ok, maybe i should drive, and you get an irish driver instead ;)
[00:55:14] <jbk> every time i've been to austin now
[00:55:18] <jbk> if it's late
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[00:55:57] <jbk> there is always someone _purposely_ weaving in and out of cars at very high rates of speeds...
[00:56:26] <Gman> a woman in a top down convertible? ;)
[00:56:32] <sommerfeld> sounds like california
[00:56:35] <jbk> never seen anything like it the times i've been in california (northern and southern) or chicago
[00:56:47] <Gman> not that i've seen sara's car, but i believe it's a saab
[00:57:10] <jbk> though the description doesn't really do it justice
[00:57:19] <sommerfeld> i've seen the occasional sports car weaving back & forth across four/five lanes of freeway near san francisco.
[00:57:29] <delewis> jbk: going into Atlanta there's updates posted on the highway stating estimated time for each exit. You can be going down the highway into Atlanta and when the update happens, you'll see *every* car swerving over into the appropriate lane to reach the exit with the best ETA.
[00:57:33] <jbk> it's very unsettling since it's very sudden, and ususally when there's very liffly space between cars
[00:57:50] <jbk> err very little
[00:57:56] * jbk shifts his hands over
[00:58:32] <sommerfeld> delewis: ah, an unstable dynamic system.  everyone dives on the shortest queue causing it to be the longest queue.
[00:58:52] <delewis> sommerfeld: suicidal queue is more like it.
[00:59:15] <sommerfeld> randomized load balancing is usually better
[00:59:57] <alanc> no offense to Gman, but I'd think it would be better to have a driver who knows what side of the road to drive on for that windy mountain road to Santa Cruz 8-)
[01:00:24] <sommerfeld> in boston, insane driving is more commonly seen on local streets
[01:00:38] <jbk> heh
[01:00:41] <delewis> alanc: you should knock some heads re: the xfs vulnerability. It has yet to be posted on http://blogs.sun.com/security
[01:01:12] <jbk> my friend (who lived in revere at the time) would drive down the street using his knee to steer all while replacing the flint on his lighter
[01:01:36] <delewis> alanc: right now your blog, the ZDnet article, and the iDefense posting are the only notifications.
[01:04:33] <Gman> alanc, gah! :)
[01:04:57] <alanc> delewis: the Sun Security Alert is in process, but still in review before being posted
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[01:06:02] <alanc> I did forward the zdnet article to the sustaining team pointing out that it's the sort of thing to get customers calling into tech support in droves and they might want to step it up
[01:06:28] <Gman> alanc, didn't get much lead time on that one?
[01:06:47] <alanc> though, since I included the "security" tag in my blog, it automatically appeared on www.sun.com/security about a minute after I posted it
[01:07:05] <Gman> oh bugger, i need to go to do my talk
[01:07:06] <Gman> later all
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[01:07:08] <alanc> Gman: we had about a month, but the ball got dropped
[01:07:15] <alanc> somewhere, not sure where
[01:07:38] <alanc> still getting used to having a sustaining team to backport our security fixes instead of having to do S8, 9, 10 & Nevada myself
[01:09:30] <seanmcg> alanc: exactly what happened to me last week, on that  windy road, hw1, up north near Inverness.  Twas about three or four foot between me and the pickup truck in front of me :)
[01:10:00] <SYS64738> who is stronger between sylar and peter ?
[01:11:33] <jmcp> Teltariat: you're welcome
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[01:15:52] <jmcp> alanc: I envy you
[01:16:00] <jmcp> our mob has to do our own backports
[01:16:01] <jmcp> :(
[01:16:32] <alanc> jmcp: we did too, for the past 7 years I've been here, this is a new change
[01:16:54] <jmcp> you lucky ba*d
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[03:11:57] <sparcdr> greetings friends, tis I :)
[03:12:54] <sparcdr> hello alanc, e^ipi, wesolows, flyingparchment, JWheeler
[03:13:07] <alanc> evening sparcdr
[03:13:39] <sparcdr> had success with jds b75 on SXDE 09/07 a few days ago, X.org problems fixed
[03:14:05] <sparcdr> what's new alanc?
[03:14:12] <alanc> not much
[03:14:40] <sparcdr> still sifting through ATI ip?
[03:15:07] <alanc> not me - mostly working on Xvnc and indiana stuff at the moment
[03:15:31] * Bartman007 waits for the channel to perk up at the mention of Indiana.
[03:15:34] <sparcdr> Xvnc?  mirror driver or something of the sort?
[03:16:16] <alanc> X server that you connect to from a VNC viewer only
[03:16:39] <sparcdr> ah
[03:16:42] <sparcdr> goody
[03:16:47] <alanc> for running on servers with no graphics cards, or in zones/Xen domains/etc where you don't have access to the graphics hw
[03:17:05] <sparcdr> so that's how xen operates, through vnc only?
[03:17:34] <Bartman007> you can allocate display hardware to a Xen domain.
[03:17:41] <Bartman007> including a gfx card.
[03:17:59] <sparcdr> Bartman007, physical?  eg onboard ATI XL on Ultra-20 (Yes, I know it's crappy)
[03:18:13] <seanmcg> does there exist x86 servers with no graphics card ?
[03:18:22] <sparcdr> seanmcg, yes
[03:18:27] <sparcdr> Apple XServe
[03:18:47] <sparcdr> although not easy to get OpenSolaris on without a head
[03:18:50] <alanc> my understanding of the request was only one Xen domain at a time could access a video card, so this was for the rest of the domains
[03:19:29] <Bartman007> sparcdr: someone has run UT 2k4 on two domains at once (one nvidia card for each domain)
[03:19:29] <sparcdr> alanc, so if I have an unallocated card, such as a second quadro or the onboard ATI XL it'd be able to use it directly?
[03:19:40] <seanmcg> sparcdr: which model ?  A quick glance shows them having onboard ati...
[03:19:46] <sparcdr> Bartman007, that answers it, although lx brand isn't the speedyest
[03:20:02] <sparcdr> Ultra-20 M2, I have a Quadro FX 1500 as well in PCI-e
[03:20:16] <alanc> sparcdr: I really don't know - you'ld have to ask someone who knows Xen, which I don't
[03:20:36] <Bartman007> sparcdr: I wish I could find the link right now...
[03:20:38] <sparcdr> xen's a bit lagging right now, consolidation is b66 still, which is no good
[03:21:17] <sparcdr> 75 soon, don't know public or not
[03:22:48] <movement> sparcdr: xen domains cannot use hardware devices directly
[03:22:49] <movement> (yet)
[03:23:04] <seanmcg> sparcdr: apple site only shows one Xserve box, with onboard ati.. so still haven't seen a x86 server with no graphics :)
[03:23:46] <Stric> and the onboard ati doesn't have enough oompf to drive macosx
[03:23:54] <Stric> everything is lagging
[03:24:14] <Bartman007> movement: is that solaris dom0 specific?  I've definitely allocated hardware to Xen domains.
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[03:25:45] <movement> Bartman007: yes
[03:25:53] <sparcdr> ah
[03:26:55] <sparcdr> Stric, it's for console dmesg and syslog moreover, and osx runs with 16mb ati cards, see iBook G3's, it's a server it's supposed to have the GUI turned off (Or can it be, don't know, I don't like their servers)
[03:27:36] <sparcdr> if ut2k4 under lx can run at all i'd be suprised, even with direct access sounds like pain, better to use ioquake3 as a test
[03:28:10] <Bartman007> sparcdr: I'd be impressed if any game of that vintage can run on lx.
[03:28:12] <sparcdr> im fine with adobe reader and mathematica, but games is just useless :)
[03:28:20] <sparcdr> it's not vintage
[03:28:27] <sparcdr> linux glibc wise, I guess
[03:29:01] <sparcdr> it's a similar situation with linux-compat on freebsd, it's mainly limited to i386 with experimental success on a few apps on amd64, but be prepared for pain
[03:29:26] <seanmcg> unreal screenshot running in lx was posted to the brandz-discuss alias ; http://images.tomservo.cc/utsolaris.jpg
[03:29:27] <sparcdr> they just finished implementing many 2.6 kernel interfaces as a google summer of code project
[03:29:35] <sparcdr> alright
[03:29:50] <seanmcg> on the lx26 brandz at that..
[03:29:53] <sparcdr> glad to see it does what it does now
[03:29:55] <sparcdr> :)
[03:30:16] <Bartman007> sparcdr: whoa.
[03:30:19] <sparcdr> fps is probably about 1.2
[03:30:42] <sparcdr> which is why i mention ioquake3, it's native, even on sparc
[03:30:59] <sparcdr> which is a big laugh with the awesome creator ffbs
[03:31:20] <sparcdr> Bartman007, ?
[03:31:59] <Bartman007> errant tab completion, meant to direct that at seanmcg
[03:32:15] <sparcdr> no problem, i do it a lot on here too
[03:32:35] <sparcdr> im a sparc doctor of death :D
[03:33:04] <sparcdr> i cure patients by... cooking them on older sparc processors
[03:33:42] <sparcdr> seanmcg, thanks for link, neat
[03:33:49] <seanmcg> np
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[03:34:13] <sparcdr> how good is the success rate with xVM on B70+?
[03:34:35] <sparcdr> last time I checked last consolidation was B66, unless you like compiling for half the day
[03:34:56] <sparcdr> if it still works with ON 74 I'll try it out
[03:35:29] <movement> sparcdr: wait for 75
[03:35:38] <sparcdr> so they say, okay movement
[03:35:51] <sparcdr> which reminds me, later I need to finish the last 500mb of part3 of sxce 73 :)
[03:36:38] <sparcdr> first I'm upgrading freebsd stuff on my server... has zfs on it
[03:37:01] <sparcdr> they didn't scrap zfs for the record, the licenses are compatible as long as it's not integrated into the default kernel
[03:37:29] <sparcdr> sparcdr@matchbox ~$ df -h
[03:37:29] <sparcdr> Filesystem               Size    Used   Avail Capacity  Mounted on
[03:37:29] <sparcdr> zspace/jails/matchbox     19G    2.5G     16G    13%    /
[03:37:40] <sparcdr> FreeBSD matchbox 7.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 7.0-CURRENT #2: Wed Oct  3 23:01:37 EDT 2007     turtle at loveturtle dot net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/turtle_7  amd64
[03:39:13] <sparcdr> anyone know if/when they'll fix the link state problem on nge?
[03:39:52] <sparcdr> when other os' don't reset the state of the device it's unusable without draining power completely from the unit
[03:40:08] <sparcdr> on opensolaris/solaris that is
[03:40:09] <wesolows_> who's "they"?
[03:40:13] <wesolows_> is there an RE?
[03:40:18] <wesolows_> is there a commit to fix build?
[03:40:22] <sparcdr> i'd assume ON maintainers/developers
[03:40:27] <sparcdr> haven't seen one wesolows_
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[03:41:17] <wesolows> well, there's a group at Sun that sometimes works on NIC stuff
[03:41:19] <sparcdr> tried Solaris U3/U4, OpenSolaris SXDE 05/07 (B64a), SXDE 09/07 (B70b) and 092407 (ON 73 I think)
[03:41:33] <wesolows> but if you want them to fix it you should really open a support ticket
[03:41:44] <seanmcg> sparcdr: that should be fixed..  I logged the bug :)
[03:41:46] <sparcdr> can I do it without a contract?
[03:41:51] <wesolows> nope
[03:41:54] <sparcdr> seanmcg, you have an ultra-20?
[03:41:57] <wesolows> no contract == wait and hope
[03:42:07] <wesolows> you get what you pay for, neh?
[03:42:13] <sparcdr> wesolows, that's dumb considering their primary support is for regular Solaris
[03:42:17] <sparcdr> I paid 2800 for this Ultra-20
[03:42:19] <sparcdr> so >:o
[03:42:22] <seanmcg> twas logged against an U40 originally
[03:42:35] <wesolows> it's not a hardware bug though; your U20 is working fine
[03:42:36] <sparcdr> I saw a similar, or some issue with X2100/X2200
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[03:42:46] <wesolows> I'm not saying this isn't a bug or that it shouldn't be fixed
[03:42:46] <sparcdr> it's a driver I know
[03:42:54] <paulf> Hello
[03:43:05] <wesolows> Just saying that you're not paying for software support so you don't have much to say about when something in software gets fixed.
[03:43:24] <sparcdr> both windows drivers (NVIDIA and Microsoft) supposedly cause it to set link state in an unreadable state, but a driver should be able to reset it
[03:43:31] <sparcdr> also happens with FreeBSD and other OS
[03:43:51] * LeftWing just avoids dual booting.
[03:43:54] <wesolows> It's definitely a bug.
[03:43:54] <sparcdr> software is free... and it's their hardware, you'd assume it'd be more of a priority, I'm better off at least
[03:44:17] <wesolows> If you want it fixed sooner, fix it yourself, hire someone to fix it, or pay someone who can fix it for a support contract
[03:44:20] <sparcdr> LeftWing, doesn't change the fact they sell the unit for multiple OS, and many people dual-boot
[03:44:35] <sparcdr> sorry, gave them a lot more than the machine would had cost to build
[03:44:36] <sparcdr> ill wait
[03:44:49] <sparcdr> works fine aside from the bug
[03:44:51] <seanmcg> sparcdr: the fix is to clear some of the nge registers.  twas fixed back in snv_53 or so.  You still seeing it ?
[03:44:59] <sparcdr> yes
[03:45:41] <wesolows> it's commit to fix in snv_76
[03:45:45] <sparcdr> I already said the OS versions I used, OpenSolaris B64a/70b/73(a?), regular Solaris 06/06 and 08/07
[03:45:52] <wesolows> you must be thinking of a different bug
[03:45:52] <sparcdr> thanks wesolows
[03:45:56] <sparcdr> nope
[03:45:57] <seanmcg> wesolows: bugid handy ?
[03:46:03] <wesolows> 6574207
[03:46:28] <sparcdr> it won't ping, it's at the hardware level, as seanmcg said, clearing registers
[03:46:42] <sparcdr> the whole device unless forced into a duplex mode or something wont respond
[03:46:48] <wesolows> the fix in 53 must have been the wrong one; it's in Fix Failed
[03:46:58] <sparcdr> workaround is removing power, flip switch or unplug
[03:47:12] <wesolows> if you have pcitool you may be able to clear registers yourself
[03:47:19] <wesolows> but iirc that's not shipped
[03:47:22] <seanmcg> ahh, different bug than the fix in 53..
[03:47:29] <sparcdr> pcitool can be obtained from?
[03:47:34] <sparcdr> part of NV?
[03:47:40] <wesolows> if it's available, it's in ON
[03:47:51] <wesolows> doesn't seem to be
[03:47:56] <sparcdr> i use ON, regular Solaris makes me hurt, it's kludgey
[03:48:05] <wesolows> uhh...ON is part of Solaris
[03:48:25] <sparcdr> OpenSolaris Nevada with ON consolidation, I upgrade every ON consolidation release
[03:48:28] <sparcdr> and it hasn't been fixed
[03:48:35] <wesolows> you've been BFUing?
[03:48:40] <sparcdr> yes
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[03:48:47] <sparcdr> and tried clean installs too
[03:48:49] <sparcdr> with patches
[03:48:54] <wesolows> that's fine, you're still BFUing over a distribution of some kind, and I'm willing to bet it's Solaris
[03:49:10] <sparcdr> ON 75 is where Xen will be consolidated again, i can wait
[03:49:16] <wesolows> there won't be any patches that work for this until it's fixed in Nevada
[03:49:23] <sparcdr> im using Solaris yes, not regular though
[03:49:28] <sparcdr> ie: SXDE with BFU
[03:49:34] <wesolows> You mean Solaris Nevada instead of S10
[03:49:40] <sparcdr> i said that
[03:49:41] <wesolows> that's still Solaris
[03:49:50] <sparcdr> "OpenSolaris Nevada with ON consolidation, I upgrade every ON consolidation release"
[03:49:54] <jbk> evening
[03:50:00] <sparcdr> that's not regular Solaris, I upgrade the BFU's
[03:50:03] <wesolows> I read that, but it makes no sense
[03:50:06] <sparcdr> regular Solaris doesn't have those
[03:50:12] <sparcdr> OpenSolaris != Solaris
[03:50:22] <wesolows> thank god, at least someone knows that
[03:50:23] <sparcdr> they want you to call it OpenSolaris or Nevada
[03:50:26] <wesolows> but you're running Solaris
[03:50:33] <sparcdr> more or less
[03:50:34] <wesolows> plus recent ON bits
[03:50:34] <sparcdr> :)
[03:50:39] <sparcdr> yes
[03:50:42] <wesolows> who are "they"?
[03:50:45] <sparcdr> ive tried SXCE also
[03:50:49] <sparcdr> Sun
[03:50:57] <wesolows> you must mean Sun marketing
[03:51:03] <sparcdr> yes
[03:51:10] <wesolows> f@#k them
[03:51:15] <sparcdr> regardless, the fixes are part of ON
[03:51:20] <wesolows> that's correct
[03:51:22] <sparcdr> wesolows, how nice of you
[03:51:32] <seanmcg> and thats part of Solaris :)
[03:51:36] <wesolows> well, marketing doesn't know anything
[03:51:39] <sparcdr> fine
[03:51:54] * sparcdr has ultraviolet-20 rays causing carcinogenic damaged to the soul
[03:51:57] <wesolows> You're not running OpenSolaris, ever, because there's no such distribution
[03:52:01] <sparcdr> *damages
[03:52:25] <sparcdr> wesolows, so OpenSolaris.org is a figment of my imagination, and the distribution OpenSolaris is a figment
[03:52:34] <wesolows> there's no such distribution
[03:52:38] <sparcdr> then blame Sun marketing
[03:52:44] <sparcdr> they like to confuse
[03:52:46] <wesolows> the stuff on opensolaris.org is code and perhaps some binaries
[03:52:51] <wesolows> I do blame them
[03:52:58] <sparcdr> i blame then too
[03:52:59] <wesolows> I'm trying to undo the disinformation they spew
[03:53:00] <sparcdr> it's settled
[03:53:06] <alanc> they love to confuse
[03:53:09] <wesolows> by providing you with the hard facts
[03:53:16] <seanmcg> OpenSolaris is the codebase + some binaries, used to make a distro like Solaris Nevada..
[03:53:17] <sparcdr> im running Solaris with cutting edge bits, sound better?
[03:53:39] <wesolows> SXCE build N plus ON from build Y
[03:53:48] <sparcdr> sparc + dr = sparcdr
[03:53:57] <sparcdr> gotcha
[03:53:59] <wesolows> that is specific and unambiguous
[03:54:06] <sparcdr> just as JDS 74 != ON 74
[03:54:13] <sparcdr> it's a coincidence
[03:54:28] <seanmcg> different consolidations (bunch of code)
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[03:55:05] <alanc> JDS 74 & ON 74 are built to deliver into Nevada 74 (aka SXCE 74), but in separate trees, by separate groups inside Sun on different (but coordinated) schedules
[03:55:49] * alanc won't even try to explain the difference between the JDS nv_74 & vermillion_74 builds
[03:56:30] <wesolows> alanc: no reason you should have to; that's because JDS refuses to get with the strategy that every single other consolidation uses
[03:56:40] <Gman> oh give me a break.
[03:56:57] <Gman> it's up to them to figure out what works for them, period
[03:58:12] <sparcdr> i know that, it doesnt always match up
[03:58:16] <wesolows> well, there you have it: confusion 1, coordination and cooperation 0
[03:58:27] <sparcdr> i have to eat 1, and exit 0
[03:58:30] <sparcdr> cya
[03:58:44] <sparcdr> thanks for fixing my brain bug
[03:58:55] <wesolows> heh, hopefully your nge bug will be fixed soon too
[03:59:26] <sparcdr> hopefully it will, as much as people think Sun means Solaris, that's not all the Ultra-20 runs, and it doesn't cover some of my work needs
[03:59:29] <sparcdr> bye
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[03:59:57] <sparcdr> as for Xen, that needs to hurry up too (Last word!)
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[04:01:20] <Teltariat> seconded
[04:02:15] <paulf> that would definitely be nice
[04:03:15] <Teltariat> Its xVM now, isn't it? xVM domains on ZFS datasets...  hasn't IBM had stuff like this for ages now?
[04:03:16] * steleman files a CR: JDS consolidation should move their build system to SFW.
[04:03:22] <steleman> :-P
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[04:05:38] <wesolows> actually while I hate their build system, I was more pointing out their lack of a single canonical gate per release
[04:06:26] <steleman> wesolows: that may be due to the fact that the "gate" concept is foreign to their upstream source
[04:06:34] <steleman> as it is to many other foss projects
[04:06:55] <wesolows> so what?  we're working on OpenSolaris here.
[04:07:10] <steleman> GNOME is not OpenSolaris.
[04:07:24] <wesolows> that's great news; I'll go delete their stuff from the web site now
[04:07:34] <steleman> glad to be informative.
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[04:16:53] <movement> Teltariat: on x86? that can run windows?
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[04:17:30] <Teltariat> movement: what? xVM?  I haven't tried it.  I was only thinking of how nice it would be to run xVM domains on top of ZFS
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[04:19:41] <movement> Teltariat: I'm not really sure what you mean by the IBM comment then
[04:20:34] <Teltariat> Oh, sorry; I meant to say that I thought that IBM hardware and operating systems had features like these for a long time already
[04:21:20] <Teltariat> I'm pretty sure that for a long time, they support the concept of virtualization, advanced partitioning and filesystems with the concept of volumes and etc.  I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they've been doing this for a while
[04:21:29] <Teltariat> But not exactly on x86.
[04:22:28] <e^ipi> IIRC power4 had the features
[04:22:34] <e^ipi> and ppc970
[04:22:54] <e^ipi> the lack thereof is the reason my rs6k won't run aix6
[04:22:59] <Teltariat> The z/OS based mainframes were able to do this for a while, I think
[04:23:10] <e^ipi> oh, yeah...
[04:23:17] <e^ipi> I was just thinking lowend kit
[04:23:49] <Teltariat> I was just talking about "in general".
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[04:24:00] <movement> I don't know anything wrt the storage side of that.
[04:26:00] <jbk> i don't think z/OS had anything like zfs though for storage
[04:26:13] <jbk> at least, if it did, i think someone would have said something by now
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[05:41:00] <Tempt> e^ipi: Thinking about AIX'ing it a bit more?
[05:41:07] <Tempt> e^ipi: Getting a juicy POWER5+ system?
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[05:48:46] <e^ipi> Tempt: If I could afford one I would
[05:54:42] <Tempt> Mmm.
[05:54:46] <Tempt> LPARs good
[05:54:49] <Tempt> WPARs good
[05:55:44] <jamesd_> many PARS is a low end box that support 4 *PARS are going to be removed from my wallet to play with this....
[05:55:50] <jamesd_> er how many PARS
[05:56:03] <Teltariat> Bankruptcy.  Thats how many.
[05:56:13] <Tempt> PARS?
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[05:56:22] <Tempt> You mean what'll it cost?
[05:56:31] <Tempt> Should be able to get a p510 in the US for around $3k
[05:56:41] <Tempt> Don't forget to claim the developer discount
[05:56:43] <jamesd_> yeah..
[05:56:56] <Tempt> peanuts really
[05:56:59] <jamesd_> i meant used... ebay
[05:57:10] <Tempt> ebay never seems to have anything good
[05:57:16] <Teltariat> Sometimes they do
[05:57:22] <Tempt> and when it does they list it for more than a cheap new box
[05:57:27] <Teltariat> I've done pretty well by Worlds-Biggest-Garage-Sale.com (Ebay)
[05:57:41] <jamesd_> i have done awesome on ebay for sun stuff...
[05:57:48] <Tempt> I'd rather have a new dual POWER5+ machine than an old 8 way monster for the same money ...
[05:58:01] <Tempt> Ebay's great for Sun stuff, especially in .au
[05:59:33] <Teltariat> I just want a Sun Thumper.
[05:59:48] <Tempt> In need of some heavy storage then?
[05:59:53] <Bartman007> Teltariat: they are offered on eBay, for full retail :-P
[05:59:55] <Teltariat> Yes sir.  Care to donate to the "Help a Poor Technologist" charity fund?
[06:00:25] <e^ipi> just buy up a crapload of SATA drives and a bunch of cards to go with them and build something similar with crap you've got lying around the house
[06:00:35] <Tempt> HA
[06:00:40] <Teltariat> e^ipi: that is my intent
[06:00:48] <jamesd_> Teltariat, bite the bullet code something awesomely cool in ZFS, port to an OS,  work with sun's engineers on stuff... that is the easiest way to get one....
[06:00:49] <e^ipi> it won't be as fast
[06:00:50] <Tempt> I don't see a thumper as a requirement for a 'poor technologist'
[06:00:57] <Tempt> perhaps a poor media collector....
[06:01:11] <Teltariat> jamesd: my C source makes learned engineers seizure
[06:01:41] <e^ipi> you can teach a monkey C
[06:01:45] <e^ipi> it's a simple language
[06:01:54] <jteo> but can a monkey write shakespeare?
[06:02:00] <Bartman007> e^ipi: you need 1,000,000 monkeys on 1,000,000 terminals.
[06:02:01] <jamesd_> Teltariat, i still bet if you work on your C, it will be faster than still than any other way....
[06:02:09] <Teltariat> e^ipi: well sir, send over your chimpanzee to school me
[06:02:32] <e^ipi> a chimp isn't a monkey, it's an ape
[06:03:02] <Tempt> ook
[06:03:07] <Bartman007> ook!
[06:03:29] <Teltariat> e^ipi: I'll take what I can get. :)
[06:03:51] <Teltariat> jamesd_: Isn't C my only option if I'd do work on ZFS?
[06:04:11] <e^ipi> you could reimpliment it in python for no reason
[06:04:19] <Tempt> ouch
[06:04:22] <Teltariat> rotf
[06:04:31] <Tempt> pascal
[06:04:34] <Teltariat> zpool import will take upwards of 3 hours?
[06:04:47] <Tempt> Rewrite the whole thing in pure SPARCv9
[06:04:51] <Teltariat> And a ZFS rebuild will put you out of commission for a week?
[06:04:56] <jamesd_> Teltariat, huh?
[06:05:01] <Teltariat> hah, I don't even own a SPARC
[06:05:09] <e^ipi> get one, they're cheap
[06:05:18] <jamesd_> oh you mean the source...
[06:06:02] <Teltariat> But seriously
[06:06:12] <Teltariat> I could get free Sun hardware for doing something like that?
[06:06:22] <jamesd_> Teltariat, you can write in any language you like, you just have to impress the ZFS team with what ever you do... if they are impressed enough, and you ask nicely  they can make a  thumper show up on your door step
[06:07:03] <jamesd_> Teltariat, i have a u20 under my desk by working with a group of sun engineers on a project near and dear to there hearts.
[06:07:06] <Teltariat> Hmm.  Me, the guy who hasn't written enough C beyond "Hello, world".  Impressing the ZFS team.
[06:07:21] <e^ipi> I've a free blade1k for emancipation
[06:07:30] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[06:07:38] <dlg> e^ipi: for me?
[06:07:39] <jamesd_> i really didn't write much code, but i didn't impress the zfs team ;-)
[06:07:40] <Teltariat> e^ipi: I might be interested
[06:07:47] <e^ipi> in what?
[06:07:55] <Teltariat> your candidate for emancipation
[06:08:08] <e^ipi> no, i meant someone @ sun sent me a free blade1k for my work on emancipation
[06:08:15] <dlg> damn
[06:08:15] <Teltariat> oh
[06:08:20] <Teltariat> drat
[06:08:21] <Teltariat> Wait
[06:08:22] <dlg> i guess i shouldnt complain
[06:08:26] <Teltariat> what _is_ emancipation?
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[06:08:39] <e^ipi> Teltariat: replacing the closed-source bits of opensolaris
[06:08:47] <e^ipi> like libc_i18n
[06:08:48] <Teltariat> *light bulb*
[06:08:49] <g4lt-mordant> rewriting code sun can't open
[06:08:52] <Teltariat> sorry, I wasn't thinking
[06:08:53] <e^ipi> or libdis
[06:08:54] <jbk> well the closed source pieces needed to build ON
[06:08:55] <dlg> e^ipi: so if i rewrite mpt i can get free toys?
[06:09:02] <e^ipi> dlg: *shrug*
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[06:09:12] <jamesd_> dlg, its possible....
[06:09:31] <Teltariat> lol.  I'll port Gentoo Portage to Solaris. :-P
[06:09:38] * Teltariat waits to be pelted with rotten fruit
[06:09:39] <e^ipi> unhelpful
[06:09:51] <jbk> you don't need mpt to build ON (though probably nice to have), though I'm sure there'd probably be interest in reimplementing anything they cannot open
[06:09:54] <Bartman007> Teltariat: too late.
[06:10:07] <Teltariat> Bartman007: party pooper.
[06:10:07] <Bartman007> you can already run Gentoo on Solaris.
[06:10:13] <jamesd_> Teltariat, go for it.... there was talk of it... but not sure what happen to that project it kind of died.
[06:10:24] <Teltariat> Bartman007: manually, or does a project exist?
[06:10:53] <Bartman007> jamesd_: like most of the Gentoo|Alt projects it suffers from lack of time investments.
[06:11:32] <e^ipi> jbk: the stuff in usr/closed that can be yanked from freebsd ( like sed(1) ) i'm not personally concerned with too much
[06:11:39] <Teltariat> My favorite Gentoo Alt project was Hardened Gentoo.  Never did really spend enough time messing with that, though
[06:12:02] <Teltariat> How about porting more of the filesystems that Linux has to Solaris?
[06:12:05] <Tempt> There are hardware bribes on emancipation now?
[06:12:15] <jamesd_> Teltariat, have you played with  trusted extensions for solaris?
[06:12:18] <Tempt> Geez, I should really have finished those utility replacements I was working on
[06:12:27] <Tempt> They're nearly done, perhaps I can weasel myself some new toys.
[06:12:39] <Teltariat> jamesd_: Not yet.  I'm still noobpoop, still learning simple Solaris things
[06:12:40] <e^ipi> Tempt: it wasn't a bribe, someone contacted me & asked what sort of help I needed and i mentioned my lack of sparc hardware
[06:12:52] <e^ipi> and they made it so
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[06:13:03] <Tempt> Hmmm
[06:13:21] <jamesd_> Tempt, not really bribes... do your work impress some sun peeps, and mention you could use some new hardware, and one day it may show up at your door... sun loves giving away hardware.. cheap, tax deduction, and makes developers and community happy
[06:13:24] <Tempt> I obviously need an UltraSPARC IV+ based machine for testing.
[06:13:31] <Tempt> jamesd_: I know the way it works.
[06:13:35] <Bartman007> e^ipi: please send $5 to Patrick Stewart.
[06:13:44] <e^ipi> why would I do that?
[06:13:51] <Tempt> jamesd_: Tends not to happen in Australia though.
[06:13:52] <Bartman007> 21:14:33 < e^ipi> and they made it so
[06:14:08] <Bartman007> unauthorized derivative works :-P
[06:14:16] <jamesd_> Tempt, you would be surprised... sun doesn't care where you are...   ask  brendan g.
[06:14:19] <Teltariat> brb
[06:14:34] <Tempt> jamesd_: They didn't ship him hardware, they shipped him to the hardware.
[06:14:41] <Tempt> jamesd_: There's a difference.
[06:15:01] <g4lt-mordant> Tempt, if they offered to ship you to the hardware, are you going to complain? ;P
[06:15:04] <Bartman007> Tempt: in a crate?
[06:15:25] <jamesd_> Tempt, yes, but if some sun engineers wanted you to have hardware, it wouldn't be any more difficult to have it shipped from a warehouse in  sydney than from a warehouse in San Jose.
[06:15:48] <Tempt> g4lt-mordant: Somehow I don't see a shiny new V890 being handed over too quickly, and that's about the only Sun hardware missing from my existance.
[06:17:10] <jamesd_> Tempt, you may have to settle for a  v880 or v480....  rebuilt ones are pretty damm cheap, and some one would have to have a valid business reason to give you a v890...
[06:17:29] <Tempt> I've already got an 880
[06:17:32] <Tempt> I want an 890
[06:17:33] <jamesd_> they have given away  t2000's fully loaded to people working on projects that sun peeps like.
[06:17:41] <Tempt> Want those 2.1Ghz US-IV+ CPUs
[06:18:09] <g4lt-mordant> Tempt, port smit ;P
[06:18:17] <Tempt> They gave away a lot of T2000s
[06:18:22] <Tempt> a *lot*
[06:18:33] <Tempt> Including just giving them to random bloggers who made a lot of noise about them
[06:18:40] <jamesd_> and those are 32k  each...
[06:18:49] <Tempt> Well, not quite.
[06:19:01] <e^ipi> yes, port smit
[06:19:07] * g4lt-mordant remembers to make a LOT of noise about the rock desktops ;P
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[06:19:14] <Tempt> Mmm
[06:19:17] <Tempt> A new rock machine would be nice
[06:19:23] <Tempt> But I'd settle for upgrades.
[06:19:32] <Tempt> I'm sure there will be an 890 on the used market for me soon enough
[06:19:37] <boyd> ME WANT ROCK! ROCK ROCKS! YOU MUST BUY ROCK!
[06:19:45] <e^ipi> rock on
[06:19:48] <e^ipi> rock out
[06:19:51] <Tempt> boyd: You do realize there is a good chance it will be cancelled, right?
[06:19:56] <e^ipi> keep on rockin' in the free world
[06:20:01] <boyd> Tempt: Rock?
[06:20:24] <jamesd_> i hope they do a rock workstation, even if its just  4 cores and 8 threads per core...
[06:20:27] <Tempt> boyd: The SPARC CPU, anyway.
[06:20:30] <g4lt-mordant> I WOULD SO FANBOY OVER A ROCK LAPTOP
[06:20:36] * boyd grumbles about richlowe having a sleep
[06:20:37] <Tempt> boyd: Don't know about any other rocks being cancelled
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[06:20:55] <boyd> g4lt-mordant: You wouldn't mind the 3 minute battery life?
[06:21:18] <boyd> Tempt: Meh. I don't see that as a high immediate probability
[06:21:31] <jamesd_> Tempt, not likely...   fujitsu is drooling over it, they need it that is why sun and fujitsu released the m4000-m9000 lines together.. so that fujitsu can get a piece of the rock action.
[06:21:34] <g4lt-mordant> boyd, maybe I'll rig something like the google innovate or die rig
[06:22:02] * boyd has a bug to log against gnu emacs but he's scared of rms
[06:22:19] <jbk> hmm i can't find the page i was looking for -- should you request a sponsor only once you are ready to integrate a fix, or should you do that when you start work on it?
[06:22:20] <e^ipi> as well you should be, that guy's a lunatic
[06:22:28] <jmcp> jbk: it's up to you
[06:22:29] <Tempt> boyd: You realise Sun has a bit of a history when it comes to cancelling CPUs?
[06:22:38] <boyd> Tempt: yes, of course I do
[06:22:43] <jbk> just wondering, got a simple one (6613349)
[06:22:59] <g4lt-mordant> boyd, what, afread he'll try to tell you oersonally about hte progress and stand upwind?
[06:23:04] <jbk> the question is how much debate should happen about how the message should change
[06:23:10] <jamesd_> boyd, yeah i understand those neanderthols with 25 years of beard growth and  5 years since there last shower scare me too... yes i'm being nice.
[06:23:22] <boyd> He
[06:23:23] <boyd> HEh
[06:23:50] <jmcp> jbk: I'd float ideas on osol-code first, and see whether you get any consensus. if you do, great, if you don't ... proceed anyway :)
[06:24:34] <jamesd_> Tempt,   rock is just too awesome of a processor for them to cancel its sun's way of defeating  HP in the unix market and  putting a big dent in ibm's power line.
[06:25:28] <e^ipi> s/HP/intel
[06:25:39] <e^ipi> HP is just an itanic reseller...
[06:26:33] <jmcp> "only because they're big..."
[06:26:38] <g4lt-mordant> THE itanic reseller TYVM
[06:26:39] * jmcp re-parses previous line.....
[06:26:40] <jamesd_> true... but itanic is dead...    rock gives all of hp-ux customers a reason to jump ship imediately...
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[06:31:33] <jbk> jamesd_: unfortunately, HP's still paying ISV's a lot of money to keep HP-UX the primary platform for certain expensive apps places run
[06:31:38] <e^ipi> Though I must say, I wouldn't refuse an i2000 if I could find one
[06:32:37] <jamesd_> jbk, yes, but when these company see that sun offers a  2RU box that replaces full racks of  HP-UX boxes that run with 10th the power a lot of going to jump at the chance.
[06:33:41] <jamesd_> and every web 2.0 company is going to love rock
[06:34:02] <g4lt-mordant> ...if there are any left by then
[06:35:26] <jbk> jamesd_: not if the ISV says 'we don't support hp-ux'
[06:35:32] <jbk> err solaris
[06:36:07] <g4lt-mordant> jbk, depends if the ISV has competition
[06:36:49] <jbk> or how difficult it is to migrate to the competition
[06:39:55] <g4lt-mordant> troo dat, but a lot of companies are finding it easier and easier to migrate off hp-sux, and vendor lock-in is only going to hurt the ISV and not the client
[06:41:10] <boyd> Gulp... I just discovered that the bug I found was introduced by RMS
[06:41:40] <Bartman007> boyd: s/bug/feature/
[06:41:54] <boyd> It's a doc bug, so maybe he won't eat me
[06:41:56] <jmcp> boyd: so it's a feature, then
[06:42:49] <g4lt-mordant> boyd, cheer up, if he eats you, the halitosis will kill you long before the teeth get ahold of you
[06:42:50] <boyd> He didn't update the doc to match a change he made... funny, I saw him telling off ESR last week for the same thing
[06:42:52] <Bartman007> no sense in fixing it, jump to the other editor!
[06:43:32] <boyd> Xemacs
[06:43:42] <Tempt> pico
[06:43:55] <boyd> Notepad
[06:43:56] <Bartman007> I was talking about cat.
[06:44:02] <Tempt> ex
[06:44:08] <g4lt-mordant> right, then oyu only have to deal with JWZ.  he never actually eats you, he just toys with you like a cat
[06:44:16] <boyd> pfft... I'll just get out my magnets..
[06:45:10] <e^ipi> ESR annoys me more than RMS in orders of magnitude
[06:45:19] <e^ipi> at least RMS created something
[06:45:45] <g4lt-mordant> e^ipi, you don't use procmail?
[06:46:37] <boyd> ESR creates things. Then he lets them go and shoots at them.
[06:46:46] <e^ipi> esr didn't create procmail, he created fetchmail
[06:47:13] <Tempt> He did contribute to making the jargon file less fun
[06:47:17] <e^ipi> and fetchmail is a trivial application
[06:47:20] <Tempt> I'm sure that's a ... helpful contribution
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[06:50:30] <e^ipi> he's also a homophobic racist
[06:50:52] <e^ipi> which is neither here nor there, but just adds to how much that guy annoys me
[06:51:08] <Tempt> ESR does make me chuckle though
[06:51:23] <Tempt> With his continual claims that Microsoft is going out of business because Windows and Office are 'evil closed source'
[06:52:12] <Tempt> He seems to think like GWB a lot of the time
[06:53:23] <rennj> hp itantium you have a choice of hp-ux,windows, and linux on them so how is rock going to compete with that?
[06:53:51] <e^ipi> rennj: and VMS
[06:54:00] <e^ipi> and BSD
[06:54:32] <rennj> yeah well i dont think i would be setting up any vpars of bsd
[06:54:49] <dlg> ha, bsd on itanium
[06:54:57] <e^ipi> i'd set it up w/ VMS
[06:55:05] <rennj> nonstop hardware
[06:55:10] <rennj> thats nice stuff
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[06:55:35] <rennj> hp has been kicking but
[06:55:46] <g4lt-mordant> right, ust ask carly
[06:56:30] <rennj> go look up the idc or gartner numbers quarter after quarter
[06:57:18] <g4lt-mordant> gartner?  aren't they the people who have yet to say a disparaging word about wintel?
[06:57:49] <rennj> http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=2 what for
[06:57:56] <rennj> the market speaks for itself
[06:57:57] <jmcp> aren't gartner the mob that predicted massive, massive sales curves for itanium?
[06:58:04] <rennj> best tech doesnt always win
[06:58:06] <g4lt-mordant> yes, yes, they were
[06:58:09] <jmcp> which have yet to appear, even after 10 years?
[06:59:16] <rennj> well pa-risc and alpha is dead to hp
[06:59:50] <rennj> and you know ibm claims to run solaris faster then sun does using opentransit
[07:00:03] <g4lt-mordant> rennj, right, so what do they have left? the sinking itanic.  hell of a thing to rest your company's future on
[07:00:04] <jmcp> HP killed them, and I reckon if they hadn't, then HP would be in a much better position
[07:00:19] <rennj> now power issues i can see that being big priority
[07:00:32] <Bartman007> rennj: to quote to common addage in here, it's a bug in Solaris :-P
[07:00:47] <g4lt-mordant> not really, solaris is the ultimate Sun calling card right now, that and Java
[07:00:58] <e^ipi> carly turned HP from a neat company to watch in to a printer ink vendor
[07:01:34] <rennj> i dont know what your talking about hp is number one vendor out there according to market numbers
[07:01:39] <rennj> storage,pc,printer
[07:01:47] <jmcp> yawn
[07:02:08] <jmcp> building PCs isn't something that has the really high margins that Wall St likes to see
[07:02:22] <jmcp> at least, not if aim to compete with Dell
[07:02:28] <rennj> superdome arent pc's
[07:02:31] <g4lt-mordant> where do they make all of this, htey closed most of the coyote plants, and their printers are increasingly outsourced.  hell, they're in sever danger of closing Bill Hewlitt's home plant
[07:02:36] <rennj> and big iron is being replaced with pc's
[07:02:54] <rennj> what did nasa just buy another sgi altix system
[07:02:57] <rennj> pc's
[07:03:07] * jmcp shrugs
[07:03:26] <jmcp> rennj: no point trying to put a different point of view to you, is there
[07:03:27] <e^ipi> regardless, HP used to do innovative stuff
[07:03:29] <e^ipi> now they're dell
[07:03:32] <e^ipi> woo hoo...
[07:03:50] <rennj> nonstop line isnt dell crap
[07:04:01] <rennj> thats is real 5 9's
[07:04:13] <jbk> but a very small market
[07:04:27] <e^ipi> no, it's not innovative either
[07:04:33] <e^ipi> since they've been selling it since the 80's
[07:05:19] <e^ipi> you can also buy alpha kit from HP, but they haven't done anything innovative with it since they decided to sell whitebox itanic machines
[07:05:26] <jbk> i don't seem to recall the nonstop machines being real powerhouses
[07:05:51] <rennj> well hp 3000 guys left and formed tandem then compaq bought them, hence its back at hp
[07:06:02] <e^ipi> even if we accept for the moment that it's a smart business decision selling rebadged off the shelf parts, it's boring technology wise
[07:07:13] <mustang> jbk: they were going to get EV8 and EV9 before they were deathed.
[07:08:18] <e^ipi> i'm a technophile, so that's what I focus on
[07:08:36] <jmcp> that's why you'll never be rich - WallSt only likes profit margins
[07:08:41] <e^ipi> if i only cared about the business aspects, I'd focus on energy companies
[07:08:48] <jmcp> enron ron ron
[07:09:14] <jbk> hehe
[07:09:23] <jbk> lots of them around here
[07:13:28] <Teltariat> I identify with e^ipi
[07:13:50] <Teltariat> I like tech, and I also like tech that /does some good/, like open source
[07:14:26] <Teltariat> For this reason, I'll never be rich, because it seems in order to be rich, you need to be either extremely lucky, or extrememly inscrupulous
[07:15:09] <LeftWing> Or preferably both.
[07:15:44] <Teltariat> Yep.
[07:16:38] <jbk> but yes, hp-ux is on life support at this point..
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[07:18:49] <jbk> jmcp: btw, i hope i'm not annoying you with the opl stuff :)
[07:18:56] <jbk> if i am, i can remove you from the email train
[07:19:15] <jmcp> jbk: no, you're not annoying me at all
[07:19:19] <jmcp> it's quite interesting to me
[07:19:26] <jbk> ok.. just wanted to be sure
[07:19:35] <jbk> espeically since i have a tendency sometimes for long emails :)
[07:22:10] <jmcp> you could probably ask Wayne for code review on your next lot of changes, incidentally
[07:22:17] <jbk> ok
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[07:30:48] <boyd> Anyone clueful enough to know what mod5 means under Xsun?
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[07:32:38] <flyingparchment> boyd: depends on your keymap, i think..
[07:33:39] <boyd> Maybe... on this machine mod1 -> Alt, mod2->Mode switch (for euro only AFAICT) mod3-> numlock, mod4->meta, mod5 -> ??
[07:34:35] <boyd> Som what I wonder is, if I assign some key to use mod5... what does it do?
[07:34:37] <jmcp> alt-GR, perhaps?
[07:35:25] <jmcp> nope
[07:35:30] <jmcp> no idea
[07:35:37] <g4lt-mordant> compose?
[07:35:52] <boyd> Well, that key (altgr) is associated with mod2 (mode switch)
[07:36:04] <boyd> Compose gets "Multi_key"
[07:36:14] <g4lt-mordant> what about the sunkeys?
[07:36:44] <jmcp> g4lt-mordant: the ones down the lhs of the main block?
[07:36:46] <boyd> No, this is a modifier.. so it wouls be for chording
[07:36:55] <jmcp> they're f11-f20
[07:36:56] <boyd> sheesh... typing bad today
[07:37:05] <flyingparchment> boyd: maybe a combination of twe meta keys?
[07:37:06] <g4lt-mordant> jmcp, no the ones on either side of the spacebar on a type6
[07:37:11] <jmcp> hmm
[07:37:16] <jmcp> I think they'll be mod4
[07:37:58] <boyd> type 6. l->r control, mod4, mod1, space, mod2, mod4, Multi_key
[07:38:17] * g4lt-mordant notes that boyd's list failed to include ctrl....
[07:38:34] <boyd> .. apart from where it said "control"
[07:39:00] <g4lt-mordant> boyd Maybe... on this machine mod1 -> Alt, mod2->Mode switch (for euro only AFAICT) mod3-> numlock, mod4->meta, mod5 -> ??
[07:39:56] <boyd> Ah, well, if you look at the output of xmodmap -pm you'll see that control is it's own modifier
[07:40:10] <boyd> (as is shift and lock)
[07:40:46] <flyingparchment> boyd: maybe you just don't have 5 modifiers.  on Xorg i have mod1,2,4 and 5, but no 3
[07:41:30] <boyd> does it list in xmodmap -pm ?
[07:41:42] <flyingparchment> yes, but there are no keys assigned to it
[07:41:57] <boyd> Sure, but I'm thinking of assigning one, but I wonder what it does
[07:43:19] <g4lt-mordant> presumably what it does on xorg
[07:43:30] <boyd> which is....?
[07:44:15] <g4lt-mordant> also xsun's xmodmap is nonsensical, because it lists two control keys on a type6-unix
[07:44:33] <g4lt-mordant> ask flyingparchment, he has one ;P
[07:44:42] <boyd> yes, I see that... did anyone ever make a kb with 2 control keys?
[07:45:04] <g4lt-mordant> not a type6 that I know of
[07:45:20] <boyd> ... I can't think of *any* kb with 2xcontrol
[07:45:53] <flyingparchment> boyd: PC keyboards have two control keys
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[07:46:10] <boyd> huh?
[07:46:37] <boyd> You mean "Control" and "Caps lock mapped into a Control" ? :)
[07:46:58] <flyingparchment> boyd: left control, left alt, space, right alt / altgr, right control
[07:47:38] <boyd> Oh, yeah... heh... I never look down there :)
[07:48:47] <g4lt-mordant> right, they have to do something instead of compose ;P
[07:48:57] <Tempt> boyd: Been using craptops too long?
[07:49:09] <boyd> Must be :)
[07:49:18] <Tempt> Even my baby craptop has two control keys
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[08:15:43] <boyd> Oh, I worked it out... thanks to jwz :)
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[08:21:53] <g4lt-mordant> you DID go xemacs?!
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[08:22:15] <g4lt-mordant> it was a joke son
[08:22:20] <boyd> Heh
[08:22:57] <boyd> the modn modifiers mean whatever the keysym you attach to them says...
[08:23:19] <boyd> e.g. xmodmap -e 'keysym Caps_Lock = Super_L'
[08:23:31] <boyd> xmodmap -e 'add mod5 = Super_L'
[08:23:49] <boyd> now the key with "Caps Lock" written on is a "Super" modfier
[08:23:54] <g4lt-mordant> ahh, why jwz would be good at that, since he does escape-meta-alt-contol-shift
[08:24:34] <gisburn> wesolows: ping!
[08:25:03] <gisburn> wesolows: are you familar with fifo vs. |poll()| ?
[08:25:55] <e^ipi> why in the blazes do you annotate function calls that way?
[08:25:55] <e^ipi> why not poll(2) ?
[08:26:42] <boyd> good question
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[08:27:17] <gisburn> e^ipi: ?!
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[08:27:29] <gisburn> erm
[08:27:34] <e^ipi> i'm just wondering where you got it from
[08:28:29] <gisburn> e^ipi: if I read from a pipe but don't read all data from it - will poll(2) still set flags in |revent| indicating that there are still pending data ?
[08:29:31] <e^ipi> not sure, but this is a common notation for functions that I've seen you use a number of times before
[08:30:00] <e^ipi> just wondering if it's from some system that I'm not previously aware of
[08:30:20] <boyd> gisburn: e^ipi is asking about your convention of using |pipe| characters to highlight function names
[08:31:02] <e^ipi> indeed
[08:31:07] <gisburn> *shrug*
[08:31:44] <gisburn> boyd: picked it up somewhere and found it usefull. That way you can easily use function names wih args in emails without confusing people.
[08:31:57] <e^ipi> the rest of us highlight function calls by appending the section in the UNIX manual pages ( eg open(2) or poll(2), vs man(1) or attributes(5) )
[08:32:33] <gisburn> e^ipi: that isn't much usefull if the manpage section doesn't exist (local function) or the section is variable (linux vs. solaris)
[08:32:41] <e^ipi> unless you speak to gnu/linux types, in which case i'm relatively certain they have no man pages, since nobody seems familiar with how to read them
[08:33:06] <boyd> some_function() works for me in that case
[08:33:36] <e^ipi> i'm not criticizing the notation you use, just curious if it was from somewhere in particular
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[08:36:56] <Tempt> gisburn: We don't talk about Linux here.
[08:38:02] <gisburn> Linux! Lunix! Lixnu! Nuxli!
[08:38:34] <boyd> Careful... you'll be saying your own nick backward soon..
[08:38:59] *** gisburn is now known as nrubsig
[08:39:08] <boyd> gah!
[08:39:08] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig
[08:39:23] <boyd> No! I have summoned the nrubsig !
[08:39:54] <nrubsig> boyd: your fault!
[08:39:57] <nrubsig> NOW SUFFER!
[08:41:35] <g4lt-mordant> if you can get him to say gisburn three times, he disappears, like that one character on super friends ;P
[08:41:59] <jmcp> g4lt-mordant: beetlejuice!
[08:42:02] <boyd> how stupid would you have to be...
[08:42:07] <boyd> Super my ass.
[08:43:36] <nrubsig> g4lt-mordant: I won't say "gisburn gisburn gisburn". No chanche!
[08:43:39] <nrubsig> erm
[08:43:42] <nrubsig> shit
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[08:45:21] <boyd> Comedy 101 from the team at #opensolaris
[08:46:24] <gisburn> Linux! Lunix! Lixnu! Nuxli!
[08:47:54] <boyd> Now don't start that again
[08:48:32] <Bartman007> gisburn: you keep talking about this "Lunix" now I must go try it if it has you so captivated.
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[08:57:12] * steleman has popcorn
[08:57:29] * Tempt takes steleman's popcorn and exits stage-left
[08:57:44] * steleman hangs on to popcorn for dear life
[08:58:08] <Tempt> Too late.
[09:02:31] <gisburn> Can anyone please say "nrubsig nrubsig nrubsig" ?
[09:02:43] <jmcp> no no no
[09:03:13] <gisburn> jmcp: you're so... cruel
[09:03:28] <Tempt> ksh93 ksh93 ksh93
[09:06:10] <Bartman007> Tempt: what have you done!
[09:06:38] <g4lt-mordant> NOOOOOOOOOO, do NOT summon him in that form!!!!!
[09:06:50] <bda> aw. The Bride of Beetlejuice skit isn't on youtube. :(
[09:06:57] <e^ipi> i considered running popcorn through my coffee roaster, but that's crazy
[09:07:00] <bda> (Robot Chicken)++ (Cartoon Network)--
[09:07:30] <Tempt> e^ipi: haha, that's a good one.
[09:08:12] *** gisburn is now known as ksh93
[09:08:17] <ksh93> g4lt-mordant: too late.
[09:08:23] <steleman> ^D
[09:08:24] <ksh93> g4lt-mordant: SUFFER!
[09:08:33] <g4lt-mordant> bg
[09:08:44] <ksh93> g4lt-mordant: $ print -r -- $"NOW!"
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[09:09:11] <g4lt-mordant> NOOOO, he's even immune to the mighty csh bg
[09:09:22] <ksh93> g4lt-mordant: ksh93: bg: no such job
[09:09:43] <ksh93> g4lt-mordant: "bg" only works for child processes, not for the shell itself
[09:10:20] <Tempt> kill -9 $$
[09:10:30] <ksh93> <GLUP>
[09:10:45] *** ksh93 is now known as _zombie_
[09:10:57] <_zombie_> Tempt: grrrrraaaaahhhhh!
[09:11:04] <_zombie_> blooooooood
[09:11:05] <Tempt> preap `pgrep ksh93`
[09:11:15] <_zombie_> <plock>
[09:11:23] *** _zombie_ is now known as _undead_zombie_
[09:11:35] <_undead_zombie_> Tempt: grrrrraaaaahhhhh!
[09:11:54] <steleman> is it too late to add a discussion topic to the developers' summit ?
[09:12:03] <Tempt> What's the topic? zombies?
[09:12:04] <_undead_zombie_> yes
[09:12:13] <_undead_zombie_> grrrrraaaaahhhhh!
[09:12:24] <steleman> Tempt: i was thinking of "Releasing cdrtools under GPLv3"
[09:12:25] <libkeise1> dtrace -w -n 'syscall:::enter /execname=="ksh93"/ { panic(); }'
[09:12:39] * steleman ducks
[09:13:03] <g4lt-mordant> good god, we are seriously asinine tonight
[09:13:10] <bda> What the hell have you guys been drinking?
[09:13:19] <_undead_zombie_> steleman: add it to the genunix.org wiki and then ask schilly to comment on it!
[09:13:36] <Tempt> Man
[09:13:48] <Tempt> You guys need to find some entertainment
[09:13:51] <Tempt> Something sane
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[09:14:09] *** _undead_undead_z is now known as ununundeadzombie
[09:14:09] <Tempt> like booze and hookers and drugs.
[09:14:42] <e^ipi> steleman: why would cdrtools go gpl3? other than to annoy schilly
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[09:15:05] <e^ipi> though annoying schilly isn't an entirely ignoble goal
[09:15:24] <ununundeadzombie> Tempt: well, we could start discussing Linearised Einstein field equations ... or Maxwell equations in eleven-dimensional spacetime!
[09:15:29] <steleman> e^ipi: there's only one thing which is worse than a failed attempt at humor: explaining a failed attempt at humor.
[09:15:38] <Tempt> I'm outta here, enough for one day
[09:15:47] <e^ipi> fair enough
[09:15:52] <ununundeadzombie> yo!
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[09:16:54] * g4lt-mordant was wondering when |UltraSPARC| would find us
[09:17:06] <gisburn> Tempt: should I explain Linearised Einstein field equations to you ?
[09:17:13] <gisburn> just needs two hours
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[09:29:07] <doof> ++
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[10:42:25] <Axklor> hey everyone, can I get some help with my E450 server?
[10:42:47] <Axklor> I just bought an IDPROM for it from a sun remarketer as It was missing one when I bought it
[10:43:00] <palowoda> Boring hardware.
[10:43:02] <Axklor> now I cannot get the OK prompt, or anything for that matter, showing
[10:43:26] <Axklor> i pull it out and it shows up on serial console fine.
[10:43:29] <Axklor> any ideas?
[10:43:38] <palowoda> Ask for your money back.
[10:43:41] <Axklor> pft
[10:43:46] <Axklor> anyone else?
[10:44:28] <palowoda> Hardware hardware hardware, boring boring borning.
[10:44:40] <palowoda> Oh born again. :)
[10:44:47] <Axklor> once we get my hardware going then we can talk opensolaris ;)
[10:45:13] <palowoda> Like your going to save opensolaris with a 450?
[10:45:55] <libkeise1> what's wrong, you don't like your mac address being all 0xffffffffffff?
[10:46:22] <Axklor> libkeise1: it prevents me from doing stuff
[10:46:23] <Axklor> like erm
[10:46:28] <Axklor> booting an OS
[10:46:29] <Axklor> ;)
[10:47:16] <Axklor> i've got a sun keyboard here too, can i send a stop+something to get to the OK prompt?
[10:47:31] <Axklor> so i can then set defaults..
[10:47:41] <g4lt-mordant> stop-n
[10:47:48] <g4lt-mordant> reset to defaults
[10:47:57] <g4lt-mordant> stop-a go to ok prompt
[10:48:05] <Axklor> okay
[10:48:10] <Axklor> how soon do i need to press it :P
[10:48:47] <g4lt-mordant> pretty much any time, the sooner the better though
[10:49:10] <Axklor> oh now my console is spewing out garbage
[10:49:31] <Axklor> possible its set to something other than 9600 8N1?
[10:49:45] <g4lt-mordant> no, htat's default
[10:49:50] <Axklor> ok
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[10:50:37] <Axklor> it doesnt appear to be doing anything now...
[10:50:43] <Axklor> powercycle?
[10:50:44] <FastJack> mhh, how can I get a list of all attached disks in solaris? I know I can use format but since it's interactive it's a bit problematic to use inside a script
[10:51:11] <jmcp> iostat -En
[10:51:17] <jmcp> or, format < /dev/null
[10:51:27] <palowoda> or maybe cfgadm
[10:52:11] * jmcp wouldn't use cfgadm
[10:52:16] <palowoda> because?
[10:52:17] <jmcp> doesn't show up IDE-attached disks
[10:52:23] <libkeise1> write it in C and use libdevinfo :P
[10:52:32] <palowoda> ah I have sata's which show up.
[10:52:49] <jmcp> palowoda: they're not using legacy mode than
[10:53:06] <palowoda> I know that is good. :)
[10:53:37] <g4lt-mordant> palowoda, cfgadm -l on a U5 and wonder where the disks are ;P
[10:53:42] <FastJack> iostat looks fine. it even displays the disk sizes which is a nice bonus
[10:53:44] <Axklor> g4lt-mordant: not having much success with stop-n, seems to be showing up crap on screen then doing nothing
[10:53:49] <Axklor> hardware problems?
[10:54:06] <jmcp> Axklor: do you have your terminal session set to the correct speed, parity etc settings?
[10:54:31] <Axklor> jmcp: if i pull the IDPROM out it works at 9800 8N1
[10:54:35] <Axklor> but with it in.....
[10:54:46] <palowoda> g4lt-mordant: I wouldn't know where a U5 disks are.  Not worth much to begin with.  :)
[10:54:57] <jmcp> Axklor: I think you might have a dud prom
[10:55:04] <Axklor> anus.
[10:55:26] <palowoda> Super Brick.
[10:56:14] <palowoda> An Ebay special from the backwoods.
[10:56:24] <g4lt-mordant> DOA, that's major suckage
[10:56:45] <palowoda> Surplus, surplus surplus.
[10:56:49] <Axklor> i bought it from an apparently reputable sun remarketer here in AUS
[10:57:39] <Axklor> http://www.trt.com.au
[10:57:39] <palowoda> I guess he/she lost the reputable status.
[10:57:53] <g4lt-mordant> or will be replacing it soon...
[10:58:21] <Axklor> might try reseating it again
[11:00:49] <Axklor> booting again...
[11:02:05] <Axklor> garbage once again :(
[11:02:34] <palowoda> Protecting your midrange IT Investment.
[11:03:15] <Axklor> you know what
[11:03:28] <palowoda> Give them a call.
[11:03:35] <Axklor> the chip pretty easily comes away from the plastic shroud around it
[11:03:54] <Axklor> reckon its possible its been put in the wrong way?
[11:04:20] <g4lt-mordant> http://docs.sun.com/source/819-2946-10/oboot.html
[11:04:49] <Axklor> thanks
[11:07:17] <g4lt-mordant> hang on, e450?  I think there may bee some more help...
[11:07:38] <Axklor> yes E450
[11:10:22] <g4lt-mordant> bah, it's all pdf.  http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/e450
[11:10:35] <Axklor> urgh
[11:11:07] <Axklor> i took the IDPROM out of the shroud
[11:11:10] <Axklor> turned it around
[11:11:15] <Axklor> i know. i know.
[11:11:19] <Axklor> put it in the other way
[11:11:28] <Axklor> it is booting up and showing stuff no
[11:11:30] <Axklor> now*
[11:12:48] <Axklor> okay if i paste 5 lines?
[11:13:01] <g4lt-mordant> but since the e450 is the enterprise version of my beloved U60, I know in the U60 docs there's quite a bit about post codes
[11:13:21] <g4lt-mordant> doubt anyone's gonna complain this time of nigh
[11:13:43] <Axklor> ? 'mfg-options' environment variable invalid
[11:13:44] <Axklor> Sun Ultra 450 (3 X UltraSPARC-II 248MHz), Keyboard Present
[11:13:44] <Axklor> OpenBoot 3.12, 1024 MB memory installed, Serial #15728623.
[11:13:44] <Axklor> Ethernet address ff:ef:ef:ef:ff:ef, Host ID: efefffef.
[11:13:51] <Axklor> The IDPROM contents are invalid
[11:14:01] <Axklor> thats somewhat different to without an IDPROM heh
[11:14:16] <Axklor> and i have OK prompt too
[11:14:27] <Axklor> whereas before it would hang without the IDPROM
[11:14:36] <Axklor> trying boot cdrom now
[11:14:58] <palowoda> That is a strange MAC.
[11:15:47] <g4lt-mordant> okay, feel like trying stop-n again?  if you want to do it a bit differently, from the ok prompt, you can do reset-defaults
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[11:18:12] <palowoda> Err shouldn't the IDPROM pin one oriontation be well marked and obvious when installing the chip?
[11:18:38] <Axklor> palowoda: it has a plastic shroud showing its orientation
[11:18:53] <Axklor> but the chip itself easily comes out of the shroud
[11:19:14] <Axklor> which kinda scares me...
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[11:20:35] <Axklor> Incorrect configuration checksum;
[11:20:35] <Axklor> Setting NVRAM parameters to default values.
[11:20:38] <Axklor> Setting diag-switch? NVRAM parameter to true
[11:20:55] <Axklor> seems to complain that CPU1 is offline too
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[11:21:31] <Axklor> g4lt-mordant: reset-defaults yields nothing
[11:22:38] * g4lt-mordant grumbles about wrong openprom version
[11:23:00] <Axklor> Offline: CPU1 (MD'ed)
[11:23:16] <g4lt-mordant> sorry, reset-defaults went away with sparc32
[11:23:23] <Axklor> OpenBoot 3.12
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[11:24:12] <Axklor> i still think this IDPROM is bung, at least i've made progress though
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[11:25:00] <g4lt-mordant> it's set-defaults now :/
[11:25:38] <Axklor> ah yep i just found that on the URL you pasted earlier
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[11:31:47] <iMax> is there anything more todo on opensolaris to enable xdmcp than to make dtlogin listen to port 177?
[11:32:01] <iMax> when I connect with Xming it crashes ...
[11:32:23] <iMax> works fine when connecting to other machines though
[11:33:07] <palowoda> You mean the Windows X server crashes?
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[11:33:15] <iMax> yes
[11:33:25] <iMax> with an out or memory error
[11:33:27] <iMax> of
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[11:34:08] <palowoda> I've used other xdmcp apps on Winders and it didn't crash with Solaris and windows.  But can't remeber which vendor.
[11:34:09] <Axklor> okay set-defaults done
[11:34:21] <timsf> hi all
[11:34:21] <Axklor> still complaining, but alot less
[11:34:55] <Axklor> haha now its proceeding to boot freebsd, which was on the disks previous to when i put them in the E450
[11:35:08] <Axklor> good sign perhaps/
[11:35:11] <Axklor> ?
[11:35:22] <dlg> nope
[11:37:05] <iMax> palowoda: ok, I'll try the default cygwin one for verification
[11:37:20] <palowoda> Hah that was it cygwin.
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[11:39:10] <palowoda> I can't believe you can just plug an IDPROM chip in an E450 in different positions and get away with it.
[11:39:33] <palowoda> They have a clamping curcuit?
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[11:47:58] <quasi> http://www.news.com/Sun-introduces-servers-based-on-new-chip/2100-1006_3-6212379.html - Sun introduces servers based on new chip
[11:48:35] <iMax> cygwin does not seem to work either...*sigh*
[11:50:38] <palowoda> Strange I've had cygwin working with Opensolaris before.  But what ever.
[11:51:30] <iMax> well cygwin also worked with my previous solaris 10 6/06 installation, but I installed the solaris express developer edition yesterday and could not get it to work
[11:52:24] <palowoda> Could be a bug in the newer version of Xorg.  Which version of express?
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[11:55:22] <palowoda> Heck it could even be a generic bug in xdmcp in recent versions of solaris to solaris.  But if it is would be interesting which build of nevada it affects.
[11:56:13] <iMax> 9/07
[11:56:42] <iMax> I will look into this more closely after lunch, have to do some other work before :)
[11:57:21] <palowoda> If you have two open solaris boxes to test with see if xdmcp works.  I'm too lazy to logout and try. :)
[11:57:31] <iMax> hehe
[11:57:57] <iMax> do you know by any chance what log file to look into for more information?
[11:58:09] <iMax> messages and syslog contain nothing
[11:58:30] <palowoda> Maybe the logs in /var/dt
[11:58:49] <iMax> ah ok, I'll check that later then as well, thanks :)
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[12:02:21] <rasputnik> does anybody speak FMA?  http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/730546  I have a sickly (out of contract) blade 1000 and just want to know what part to ebay for.
[12:02:38] <palowoda> Just a couple of points.  I did have xdm working with Windows X servers before maybe back around build 56.  Remember if you really think it's a failure in xdm to bring it up in the xwin-discuss list over on opensolaris.org.
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[12:04:43] <iMax> palowoda: well I'll look into it in more detail, just wanted to ask before if there are any known caveats. I assume I am missing some configuration detail but I am not sure yet
[12:08:46] <palowoda> iMax: When you have pervious versions that have worked and in your case you did express you did have a working build 9/07 that maybe considered regression.  I'm sure some of the X guys like alanc might be interested.  Also search in the bugs.opensolaris.org for say "xdm" see if you find any bugs related.
[12:10:22] <palowoda> As you said though you have to check your configs.
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[12:12:22] <iMax> palowoda: yes, thanks. Could be that it has something todo with my network connection. During startup I see the message that the interface could not be configured (I am using dhcp) although I can log in via ssh quite fine ... so some things to check :)
[12:12:45] <palowoda> Cool.
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[12:21:20] <palowoda> rasputnik: Kind of looks like the motherboard. Not many replaceable parts on a 1000.
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[12:21:46] <rasputnik> palowoda: yeah, that's what I thought (the qlc controller maybe). thanks.
[12:22:07] * rasputnik is going to try swapping out some ram anyway
[12:22:45] <palowoda> You could boot of something other than hte qlc.
[12:23:08] <rasputnik> palowoda: there is that, it seems like there are firewire ports at the back
[12:23:16] <rasputnik> doubt they're bootable though
[12:23:29] <rasputnik> any live cds for sparc?
[12:23:55] <palowoda> Not that I know of.  Belenix is only x86.
[12:24:21] <palowoda> I've never got shillix to boot live.
[12:24:37] <rasputnik> suppose I could just run it diskless
[12:24:55] <palowoda> Can you net boot without the panic?
[12:25:12] <rasputnik> palowoda: yeah, I got the error doing a kickstart install
[12:25:36] <rasputnik> i mean jumpstart (wash my mouth out)
[12:25:45] <palowoda> error as in "panic"?
[12:26:51] <rasputnik> palowoda: yeah, the one in the pastebin. It had got halfway through the package by then, though. it runs multi-user for 2 minutes before panicing, about 5 minutes in single user
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[12:28:31] <Teltariat> Kickstart.  Jumpstart.  Which OS will have a Punchstart?  Windows?
[12:28:46] <Teltariat> Oh, I forget, thats already how we start
[12:28:55] <Teltariat> windows.  With a fist
[12:29:18] <rasputnik> falsestart
[12:29:27] <palowoda> rasputnik: Interesting that it can run that long before hitting a panic.
[12:29:56] <Teltariat> rasputnik: nice one
[12:30:36] <palowoda> At least if it was hardware related.
[12:31:15] <rasputnik> palowada: did wonder if there was something in the OS causing problems (hence trying a reinstall). now I have no bootable OS image (after half a jumpstart), so it's going to be fun to debug...
[12:31:43] <palowoda> What OS version?
[12:31:58] <rasputnik> palowoda: s10u3
[12:32:19] <palowoda> How long have you been running s10u3?
[12:32:55] <rasputnik> it's a hand me down from our DBA (who gave up on it after this crash). Was kickstarted for him in the summer, I think
[12:33:06] <rasputnik> s/kick/jump/ damn
[12:33:50] <Teltariat> Freudeian slips aplenty, eh, rasp?
[12:34:05] <palowoda> So you could try booting U4 or better yet the latest build 73 into single user from the cd and see if you have the same panic?
[12:35:23] <palowoda> Single user in any newer version should produce the same panic if it's hardware.
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[12:37:14] <palowoda> Note FAM isn't really your problem just a critical problem.
[12:37:54] <palowoda> FAM wasn't even close to maturing at U3 Solaris 10.
[12:40:40] <rasputnik> palowoda: FMA, you mean?
[12:41:10] <rasputnik> will try booting a cd , good idea
[12:41:28] <palowoda> Err yes.  I'm sure fma-discuss on opensolaris forums has more detailed info.  But your using an old version of Solaris 10.
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[12:41:48] <rasputnik> palowoda: oic. thanks, will give it a whirl
[12:42:04] <palowoda> They keep adding more fma diag info on the recent versions.
[12:42:42] <iMax> palowoda: got a step further now, it seems a not working reverse lookup caused that "out of memory" error messsage. now I get a least a mouse cursor, but no windows :)
[12:43:09] <palowoda> Damn that is a big step from a panic.
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[12:44:21] <palowoda> boot in single user
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[12:45:43] <palowoda> Oh crap iMax I though I was talking to rasputnik. soory
[12:47:30] <palowoda> iMax: You might want to try using the static IP (if you can your using dhcp) to see if you can get around host resolve problems.
[12:47:43] <iMax> :)
[12:48:36] <iMax> palowoda: I put an entry into the /etc/hosts as a workaround, Xerror now shows something about missing font dir ... I do not know if this is the source of the issue I am not seeing or not
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[12:49:54] <palowoda> The missing font dir might show up in the /var/dt/Xerrors
[12:50:18] <palowoda> Which font dir if you know?
[12:54:17] <palowoda> The missing font dir will most likely be in /usr/openwin/lib/X11/fonts
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[12:56:19] <palowoda> Strange I can't remember them eliminating any fonts from the version you had working.
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[13:00:59] <palowoda> 4am I have to get some sleep, ltr.
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[13:05:20] <iMax> palowoda: hmm....I just had a phone call now and in the mean time the session started, so I guess it was timing out on some operation
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[13:16:31] <rasputnik> palowoda: night mate, thanks for the help
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[13:26:42] <Vanuatoo> Will there be nexe SXDE release or Indiana will take place instead?
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[13:47:17] <chrol> ping
[13:47:28] <chrol> Have a G33 board and X won't start
[13:47:42] <chrol> anybody have a command at hand?
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[13:47:57] <chrol> (installing b73)
[13:48:16] <cmihai> chrol, install in text mode.
[13:48:47] <cmihai> Then try to run XOrg or XSun (kdmconfig) and change video modes, etc. Just google for xorg.conf and your video cards..mkey?
[13:49:33] <chrol> ok thanks
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[14:05:33] <ofu> chrol: plugging in a nvidia board worked for me
[14:14:37] * WickedWicky is listening to Toy Dolls - Final countdown
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[14:48:24] <FastJack> hmm, iostat -En is nice. I see now all disks in my machine. can I somehow find out what kind of device they are? (I know, a human can do this by looking at the name but I want to use it in a script)
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[14:50:57] <razrX> FastJack: you looking for sumfin like 'iostat -Expn' ?
[14:52:00] <FastJack> razrX: that still doesn't tell me if it's a cd/dvd-rom or maybe a usb device
[14:53:18] <FastJack> yeah, I know. most cd/dvd-drives will probably have the string "cd" or "dvd" in their product name but that's too fuzzy for me
[14:53:37] <razrX> kk, can't really help ya then i'm afraid
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[14:53:47] <timsf> prtpicl -v
[14:53:50] <timsf>  lshal ?
[14:53:53] <timsf> prtconv -v ?
[14:53:57] <timsf>  - any of those help?
[14:55:35] <FastJack> there is no lshal and prtconv on my system.
[14:55:46] <timsf> prtconf
[14:55:57] <FastJack> have to see if I can find anything useful in propicl's output
[14:56:07] <timsf>  (sorry - no lahal in /usr/sbin - what are you running ?)
[14:56:23] <timsf> (lshal - haven't got any typing skills today it seems)
[15:00:00] <FastJack> still no lshal. prtconf -v and prtpicl -v might help. have to take a closer look at the output. it's pretty verbose :)
[15:00:21] <timsf> "prtpicl -v -c block" might be useful
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[15:04:21] <FastJack> ok, I'll try to untangle that output. this will take some heavy regexing. :)
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[15:04:54] <timsf> Might be worth hanging to see if anyone else knows the best way of doing this...
[15:05:12] <timsf> I tend to just "echo | format" most of the time, but it's not an interface either really...
[15:06:12] <FastJack> timsf: yeah. format won't show usb devices
[15:06:37] <timsf> format -e should
[15:06:43] <FastJack> I'm tring to build a nice web frontend for zfs pool management for my homebrew NAS
[15:06:56] <timsf> the zfs admin gui doesn't cut it?
[15:07:41] <FastJack> not really. I want it to be usable to my grandma :)
[15:08:06] <jamesd_> FastJack, what is the piont,  zfs is extremely simple to control and maintain...   two commands...  everything is pretty much in plain english.. you would only end up in slowing most people down if they could just invest 10 minutes learning it/
[15:08:16] <timsf> Fair enough - what we all need, Grannies On ZFS.
[15:09:03] <FastJack> jamesd_: because it's supposed to be a NAS appliance
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[15:09:24] <jamesd_> zfs create  poolname/granny       done... what more does grandma need?  she will never  fill up even a  GB if she tracked down all of her favorite   cookie recipes
[15:09:43] <jamesd_> FastJack, i'm sorry one more command...    zfs set sharenfs=rw poolname/granny
[15:09:46] <jamesd_> done.
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[15:10:27] <jamesd_> for extra credit    zfs set compression=on  poolname/granny
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[15:11:01] <timsf> zfs set copies=3 -- wouldn't want all those knitting patterns to get lost
[15:11:44] <timsf> Oh, and automatic snapshots, in case she deletes her bingo-hall schedule by mistake..
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[15:12:13] <jamesd_> there are  smf manifests for that.. you wouldn't want to use a website to take automatic snapshots....
[15:12:20] <nachox> morning
[15:12:28] <rasputnik> FastJack: are you going to have multiple disks?
[15:12:38] <FastJack> rasputnik: most probably
[15:12:40] <ofu> does anybody know if pnfs does something like "zfs set copies=3"? _that_ would be great
[15:12:43] <timsf> True enough (I wrote the smf stuff ;-)
[15:12:57] <jamesd_> zpool create  poolname  raidz  disk1 disk2 disk3
[15:13:16] <FastJack> rasputnik: it will run on this baby http://www.norcotek.com/DS-520.php
[15:13:24] <rasputnik> FastJack: neat. Disk failure / replacement is where this'll get interesting
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[15:14:12] <ofu> FastJack: cool hardware, looks a little bit similar to thecus n5200
[15:14:28] <ofu> how much is it?
[15:14:35] <rasputnik> FastJack: that's a babe.
[15:14:55] <FastJack> currently I have set up my old PIII with half a dozen disks shoved in and some more usb-drives attached. just to see how they behave
[15:15:26] <rasputnik> two disks would do me, I'd just like hot swap
[15:16:32] * jamesd_ loves his  sun u2 + 2x sun 711 disk boxes, not going to set speed records unless you are comparing it to software raid5, still a nice 150GB of raidz storage.
[15:16:43] <FastJack> ofu: the 1GHz version with gbit is about $700
[15:17:42] <ofu> and disks extra, i suppose
[15:17:43] <Tigerstein> how can I add dvd support to the default totem in sxde?
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[15:17:58] <FastJack> ofu: yeah, disks are extra
[15:18:36] <ofu> hmmm... i think, i will build a home-nas myself, its cheaper and faster
[15:19:58] <rasputnik> I'd like a cheap, mini-itx format sparc based home NAS with maybe 3 bays (purely for openboot, I *hate* the hassles involved with grub/bios/etc on x86).
[15:20:01] <rasputnik> and a pony
[15:20:21] <FastJack> ofu: my first plans were to use a nano-itx board until I found that DS-520
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[15:24:06] <ofu> ah, sparc-based mini-itx... thats interesting
[15:24:25] <rasputnik> I've seen some socket AM2 mobos in a mini-itx form factor, that'd be sweet. even core2duo (something 64 bit)
[15:25:00] <kjetilho> gah, Solaris fails to boot if you have UFS filesystems listed inside ZFS.
[15:25:08] <kjetilho> evidently it starts up ZFS after mountall
[15:26:39] <rasputnik> kjetilho: what build? I had ufs on zfs booting fine on s10u4
[15:26:56] <kjetilho> 10u3 :)
[15:27:08] <kjetilho> glad to hear it's been fixed
[15:27:13] <rasputnik> kjetilho: what does your /etc/vfstab line look like?
[15:28:02] <kjetilho> /dev/md/dsk/d40 /dev/md/rdsk/d40        /ld/ufs ufs     2       yes     -
[15:29:00] <rasputnik> kjetilho: and your submirrors are on zvols?
[15:29:09] <kjetilho> no, plain disks
[15:29:22] <rasputnik> kjetilho: where does zfs come in then?
[15:29:33] <kjetilho> /ld is ZFS
[15:29:44] <kjetilho> so the mount point doesn't exist
[15:30:18] <kjetilho> so perhaps the bug hasn't been fixed after all?
[15:30:19] <rasputnik> kjetilho: ohhh, I see. Sorry, gotcha. No, I'm talking about ufs on zvols, like ;  /dev/zvol/dsk/vera/zonevols/template - /zones/template ufs - no -
[15:30:50] <kjetilho> I think it would be reasonable to activate ZFS right after the other automatic filesystems
[15:35:45] <ofu> FastJack: i think, i will use a normal c2d-microatx board and 5 disks for raidz
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[15:49:21] <ofu> hrmpf, just upgraded a thumper to u4, all sata ports say something about Recovered communication error, PHY ready change,  10-bit to 8-bit decode error, Disparity error
[15:49:28] <ofu> is this something i have to worry about?
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[16:17:35] <SplasPood> ofu: hrm..  I did an upgrade of 1 x4500 to U4 and it went reasonably well, nothing like you mentioned..  but I worry about upgrading my production one after hearing that...
[16:18:19] <JWheeler> !
[16:18:27] * JWheeler wants a 'test' thumper!!!
[16:18:34] <SplasPood> heh
[16:18:36] <JWheeler> stop hogging them all! share :)
[16:18:38] <SplasPood> I don't get to keep it
[16:18:43] <SplasPood> its going back :(
[16:18:53] <ofu> why?
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[16:27:23] * quasi wants a couple of T5220s
[16:28:04] <ofu> are they officially released now?
[16:28:25] <quasi> yes
[16:28:42] * ofu wants some too
[16:28:43] <quasi> http://www.sun.com/launch/2007-1009/feature.jsp?intcmp=hp2007oct09_launch_read
[16:29:36] <jteo> hm.
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[16:30:20] <jteo> oh ontario's successors
[16:33:40] <nachox> damn sqlplus
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[16:34:19] <JWheeler> good lord... I trust someone out there can follow these model numbers
[16:34:44] <jteo> marketing always mangles the nice sexy codenames into stuff like T5520
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[16:38:40] <SplasPood> ofu: its just an eval unit..  the idea being 'we'd like to buy more, but we want to test pre-release U4 on it before we decide... so umm.. can we borrow one?'
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[16:39:05] <SplasPood> ofu: of course U4 is out now...
[16:39:29] <ofu> yes, but I upgraded an older unit
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[16:49:58] <Fish> hello
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[17:06:47] <HCoyote> anyone know if there's a mailing list for discussing filebench?
[17:07:29] <timsf> perf-discuss at opensolaris dot org ?
[17:07:50] <HCoyote> ahha.
[17:07:51] <HCoyote> thanks!
[17:08:13] <HCoyote> was looking for benchmark, not performance.
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[17:26:41] <elektronkind> daaaamn
[17:26:42] <elektronkind> http://blogs.sun.com/bmseer/entry/ultra_fast_cryptography_on_the
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[17:28:56] <quasi> you've sort of got to be doing those numbers if you want to feed 2 10Gbit nics
[17:29:49] <PerterB> a little bit of clever failover/load balancing software and you've maybe got  something that would kill F5 in the SSL accelerator market
[17:30:38] <elektronkind> I wouldn't be surprised if F5 used this as a new platform
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[17:31:19] <HCoyote> is f5 still basing their code on freebsd?
[17:31:29] <ofu> no, newer ones are linux
[17:31:39] <ofu> redhat 3 or something
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[17:32:38] <millhouse> hey
[17:33:45] <HCoyote> hmm.
[17:34:31] <millhouse> i'm running three iscsi/zfs setups...  i have opensolaris build68 on the "target" nodes and solaris 10u4 on the "initiator" node..  For some reason, i'm seeing each iscsi setup to have one of its targets show problems of some kind (either reads, writes, or checksums).  Are there any issues/problems/bugs known about iscsi/zfs that would explain this?
[17:35:21] <ofu> hrhr, /etc/redhat-release exists on our f5, but is empty
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[17:36:08] <HCoyote> is it a 2.4.21 kernel?
[17:36:19] <ofu> Linux azaremoth 2.4.21-9.4.0.529.0smp #2 SMP Tue May 8 17:48:05 PDT 2007 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux
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[17:37:28] <HCoyote> it's a post-rhel3u1, pre-rhel3u5 system
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[17:37:36] <HCoyote> probably u2.
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[17:52:41] <Vanuatoo>  Will there be nexe SXDE release or Indiana will take place instead?
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[17:55:32] * quasi very much hopes that Indiana won't screw the rest of the world
[17:57:26] <cmihai> Vanuatoo, no, Indiana won't be replacing anything.... it hardly even exists to begin with.
[17:58:17] <madhatter> Yes!! It works. The new sata controller *does* work without any further configuration needed!
[17:58:26] <jteo> which sata?
[17:59:04] <madhatter> jteo: Noname Sil3114 chip controller
[17:59:13] <quasi> madhatter: cool!
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[17:59:26] <madhatter> jteo: I had some issues finding a supported controller the last few weeks ;)
[17:59:47] <madhatter> quasi: Next time I will try the cheap stuff first :)
[17:59:49] <jteo> ah
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[18:20:15] <alanc> Vanuatoo: there's one more SXDE release planned (around January or so), after that, it's TBD whether there will be more SXDE or whether Indiana replaces it
[18:22:47] <HCoyote> what is Indiana?
[18:23:31] <Vanuatoo> alanc thank you
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[18:23:52] <Vanuatoo> do you know on what nv build should the next sxde be based  on
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[18:23:57] <Vanuatoo> nv 75?
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[18:27:05] <alanc> Vanuatoo: currently planned for 79, may change due to schedules around the holiday period
[18:28:08] <alanc> SXDE is about every 8 builds or so, so 75 is way too early after 70, and they try to keep the SXDE build down to a lot less intrusive changes than nv_75's Xen integration
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[18:41:49] <chrol> struggling with X on G33 board with b73 - it seems to want to load amd64 dll
[18:42:16] <chrol> .../amd64/libpcidata.so: wrong ELG class
[18:42:23] <chrol> ... ELF class
[18:43:00] <alanc> Xorg on nevada defaults to 64-bit on 64-bit platforms
[18:43:35] <chrol> mine is 32bit
[18:44:09] <axisys> is there a to find out who was using a desktop unit two days ago
[18:44:15] <cmihai> last
[18:44:27] <cmihai> (type that in) shows you logins / reboots / stuff
[18:44:28] <Triskelios> chrol: G33 is a Core 2 chipset, no?
[18:44:44] <cmihai> Also grep around /var/sadm, plenty of logs there
[18:44:53] <WickedWicky> or ask around
[18:45:01] <WickedWicky> "did you login eh?"
[18:45:30] <chrol> Triskelios: yes but I have Pentium 4d in it for now
[18:45:35] <cmihai> Only if hyou know how to ask nicely.
[18:45:45] <Triskelios> chrol: oh
[18:45:45] <axisys> rephrasing my question. is there a to find out who was using a sunray desktop unit two days ago
[18:45:47] <chrol> turns out I started the wrong Xorg
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[18:46:11] <axisys> actually I have the user name .. i want to find out what desktop unit he was using
[18:46:35] <Triskelios> chrol: how did you manage that? gdm and dtlogin use Xserver which will pick the right one...
[18:46:42] <axisys> in other words is there way to map a user name to a desktop unit from past log in sunray ?
[18:47:08] <chrol> I found Xorg and ran it... :)
[18:47:16] <madhatter> Do I really have to add permanent routes like this in Solaris: http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/content/submitted/persistent_routing.html
[18:47:19] <Triskelios> chrol: use gdm =P
[18:47:22] <axisys> ottom: would u know?
[18:47:36] <cmihai> axisys, http://xkcd.com/169/
[18:47:37] <chrol> problem is X won't auto setup ok
[18:47:50] <madhatter> I just noticed that my 'route -p add default 192.168.0.1' seems to get lost sometimes
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[18:48:27] <axisys> cmihai: thnx
[18:48:38] <cmihai> axisys, erm, no, that's a comic :P
[18:48:43] <alanc> chrol: Intel G33 graphics?   I don't think those are supposed to work yet
[18:48:50] <axisys> cmihai: i know
[18:48:58] <axisys> cmihai: i am used to ur responses
[18:49:14] <cmihai> Are you know.
[18:49:35] <alanc> oh wait, they putback the G33 agpgart support into nv_74, so it might work as soon as those bits get out
[18:49:44] <chrol> It worked fine under nexenta - decided to try opensolaris to see how it feels
[18:50:18] <chrol> alanc: ok - good - agp is what is failing now
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[18:51:09] <alanc> http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6596174 : AGP support for Intel 3 series - Fixed in snv_74
[18:52:29] <axisys> ottom: is there a way to find out what was the desktop unit a sunray user using two days ago from old log?
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[18:55:30] <chrol> is there an easy way to upgrade in text mode to 74 from 73?
[18:55:59] <Triskelios> axisys: it should be in the admin guide
[18:56:18] <seanmcg> chrol: live upgrade ?  Sure.. luupgrade
[18:57:05] <axisys> Triskelios: let me look .. thanx
[18:57:41] <chrol> luupgrade: no boot environments are configured
[18:58:30] <chrol> aha - lucreate etc - found a doc
[18:58:55] <Triskelios> you need spare slices
[18:59:00] <seanmcg> chrol: looks like you don't have a disk slice for an alternative root..  needed for live upgrade
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[19:02:11] <chrol> with a zfs based system I thought there would be less focus on slices/partitions and disks during setup...
[19:03:21] <Triskelios> chrol: live upgrade does not support zfs
[19:03:26] <jteo> yet.
[19:03:55] <Triskelios> well, Snap Upgrade is the planned replacement
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[19:05:29] <tfb> Triskelios: does that mean it's not worth spending time on LU currently (in terms of persuading people to adopt it)?
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[19:06:03] <chrol> is there another way to download the patches? (except a reinstall from a fress dvd?)
[19:06:33] <Triskelios> tfb: it's unclear, but it seems likely. caiman-discuss is the right place to ask
[19:06:48] <tfb> hx
[19:07:03] <tfb> s/hx/thx/ (sorry)
[19:08:16] <Triskelios> chrol: SXCE does not have patches per se, so you have to upgrade from the DVD or a DVD image
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[19:11:41] <Triskelios> pkg(1) is supposed to be able to do a full install now iirc, so that may change soon
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[19:12:50] * Triskelios needs to bum snv_74 off of someone...
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[19:47:11] <jteo> wtf is jaiku
[19:47:56] <PerterB> is it a kind of poem? ;)
[19:48:15] <jteo> no it's Google
[19:48:21] <jteo> Google's latest acq.
[19:48:57] <PerterB> I actually knew that (hence the smiley), but as far as I can tell from their web page it's just another bunch of twitter alike web 2.0 bloatware bollocks
[19:49:04] <jteo> nono
[19:49:08] <jteo> it's an ACTIVITY stream
[19:49:14] <jteo> like...IRC. but over HTTP
[19:49:22] <PerterB> I stand by my original statement ;)
[19:50:32] <wesolows> nice turn of phrase there
[19:50:53] <wesolows> there are way too many things out there that are Just Like IRC Except ...
[19:51:32] <wesolows> and what the Except part always boils down to is "under our control, proprietary, and designed primarily for us to make money without providing any value that IRC hasn't provided for the past 15 years"
[19:52:02] <jteo> i tend to believe IRC has a natural barrier against idiots.
[19:52:09] <jteo> but someone put pjirc on osol.org
[19:52:12] <wesolows> are you new here?
[19:52:23] <wesolows> IRC has always been full of idiots
[19:52:40] <wesolows> but it's also free, simple, and functional
[19:52:45] <jteo> i had low standards.
[19:52:47] <jteo> :(
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[20:18:02] <jteo> wb dclarke
[20:18:10] <dclarke> am having a brain challenged day here .. what is the way ( the new way ) to boot with kadb from GRUB ? Is it to add -ksv on the boot options line ?
[20:18:29] <dclarke> e/me wave
[20:18:38] <dclarke> hello
[20:18:42] <dclarke> I think that is what I meant
[20:18:51] <dclarke> jteo .. you are getting to be an old man around here
[20:19:24] <jteo> true.
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[20:21:34] <dclarke> check this out http://rafb.net/p/7QeiT462.html
[20:22:01] <seanmcg> dclarke: yup you're right, adding -k at the end of the boot options line the one with 'unix' in it will get you booting with kmdb.  Though at any time you can load up kmdb with mdb -K (and type :c afterwards)
[20:22:26] <dclarke> [0]> :c
[20:22:26] <dclarke> skipping system dump - no dump device configured
[20:22:26] <dclarke> ~ebooting...
[20:22:42] <dclarke> something real bad going on here
[20:23:37] <dclarke> what make no bloody sense is that I cna boot the failsafe and then fsck the root filesystem just fine
[20:23:45] <seanmcg> is your bootpath in /boot/solaris/bootenv.rc correct ?
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[20:24:08] <dclarke> one sec .. rebooting
[20:24:29] <dclarke> booting Failsafe mode
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[20:24:53] <TheShaman> does open solaris support NFS v3 TCP?
[20:25:03] <alanc> yes
[20:25:10] <TheShaman> is it stable?
[20:25:16] <alanc> yes
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[20:25:21] <TheShaman> is it in GA Solaris?
[20:25:34] <alanc> NFS v3 TCP?   since Solaris 2.6 in 1998
[20:25:36] <TheShaman> is it in Soalris 10 also?
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[20:25:51] <alanc> that's old stuff - been around for years
[20:25:54] * dclarke thinks geez
[20:25:57] <alanc> Solaris 10 added NFS v4
[20:26:03] <TheShaman> linux still has it marked as EXPERIMENTAL
[20:26:11] <dclarke> good for them
[20:26:15] <TheShaman> just checking...
[20:26:19] <seanmcg> TheShaman: who do you think came out with nfs in the first place ?-)
[20:26:24] <dclarke> duh
[20:26:37] <TheShaman> uh... that would be SUN i .. no JAVA I think
[20:26:38] <TheShaman> :)
[20:26:40] <dclarke> the linux people probably have ZFS as experimental
[20:27:13] <TheShaman> they should have changed the stock symbol to SOL and not JAVA
[20:27:14] <alanc> oops, sorry, I remembered wrong - NFSv3 was added in Solaris 2.5 in 1995
[20:27:16] <TheShaman> ok thanks
[20:27:53] <seanmcg> dclarke: btw you're not on a mirrored root or the like ?
[20:28:26] <sebroy> S.O.L. stands for something else though...
[20:28:28] <dclarke> seanmcg : not on this machine
[20:28:38] <TheShaman> good point
[20:28:43] <TheShaman> not a good choice.. :)
[20:29:02] <TheShaman> but JAVA? come on.. what a let down
[20:29:25] <sommerfeld> i think i've worked out what to do
[20:29:30] <sommerfeld> oops, wrong channel
[20:30:54] <dclarke> gotta run .. be back after lunch
[20:31:44] <dclarke> on the way out the door .. bootenv.rc looks good : http://rafb.net/p/2CQKYe45.html
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[20:34:20] <TheShaman> wireshark
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[20:47:36] <sparcdr> greets
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[20:53:21] <madhatter> I installed mplayer from blastwave.org and now x11 seems to crash when I try to login. What am I doing wrong?
[20:53:34] <sparcdr> on Nevada?
[20:53:48] <madhatter> sparcdr: Yep
[20:53:58] <sparcdr> it crashes because it uses different libraries, I had the same issue with XChat wrecking havoc over my JDS install
[20:54:38] <madhatter> sparcdr: Hmpf, how can I change that? When I remove it from the path?
[20:54:41] <sparcdr> try export LD_LIBRARY_PATH="/opt/csw/lib:/lib:/usr/lib:/usr/X11R6/lib" then run it again, dont close the terminal, itll fsck up things if you dont reset it back
[20:54:59] <sparcdr> you cant change it really, it'll mess up non-csw programs
[20:55:39] <madhatter> sparcdr: So I better get rid of blastwave then?
[20:55:43] <sparcdr> you can write a shellscript to export that and keep it away from the system, or you can compile it against new libraries, or export those, run the program, reset back to before (No csw in LD_LIBRARY_PATH)
[20:56:06] <sparcdr> madhatter, up to you, it just causes problems, it was linked against Solaris 10 not Solaris 11 (Nevada)
[20:57:19] <sparcdr> it works just causes non csw programs to fail after you use that workaround, which is why you just reset it (Same as above, without csw)
[20:57:36] <madhatter> sparcdr: I had doubts about that stuff, but I read too often that it is such a nice way to add software like mplayer and crap.
[20:57:38] <sparcdr> try compiling mplayer
[20:57:48] <sparcdr> it is, on regular Solaris
[20:57:50] <sparcdr> not Nevada
[20:58:06] <sparcdr> it wasnt made for nevada, it works with caveats
[20:58:41] <sparcdr> find out what they compiled mplayer with (Options/dependencies) and use the system ones
[20:58:43] <madhatter> sparcdr: It should be possible to remove /opt/csw to get rid of it, shouldn't it?
[20:58:50] <sparcdr> heck, if you want ill make a package
[20:58:57] <sparcdr> no
[20:59:06] <sparcdr> they use SVR packages also
[20:59:14] <madhatter> sparcdr: Okay, that sounded easy :)
[20:59:18] <sparcdr> use pkgrm to remove all CSW packages
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[20:59:40] <gisburn> blub!
[20:59:48] <madhatter> sparcdr: I will try to compile mplayer from src later then
[20:59:51] <sparcdr> you can get away with rming /opt stuff mostly (Minus gnome app stuff) but not /opt/csw
[20:59:58] <dclarke> just ls -ltr /var/sadm/pkg | grep CSw and remove those .. then you can strt over .. or not
[21:00:17] <sparcdr> ie: /usr/share/applications/ss11lnk points to /opt/SUNWspro
[21:00:19] <dclarke> that should be a capital CSW there
[21:00:27] <sparcdr> yep
[21:00:42] <madhatter> dclarke: Okay
[21:00:45] <dclarke> I do it all the time for testing purposes
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[21:01:09] <madhatter> dclarke: Wow, that are a lot
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[21:01:25] <bigjohnto> hey about every 1 hour i get this message in my messages log, SUNW,hme0 : Internal Transceiver Selected. and  SUNW,hme0 :   100 Mbps Full-Duplex Link Up
[21:03:05] <kUdtiHaEX> Installing the service pack (Vista SP1) will require a large amount of free disk space (7 GB for x86 and 12 GB for x64). However, most of this space will be reclaimed after installation ;-)
[21:03:10] <dclarke> madhatter : yeah .. its a problem we call Blastwave bloat
[21:03:38] <madhatter> dclarke: Is there a way to pkgrm with dependencies?
[21:03:46] <sparcdr> the problem with blastwave is it isolates itself by duplicating packages, it linked against
[21:04:01] <sparcdr> no madhatter, but there's no need remove all CSW prefixed packages and it'll be fine
[21:04:10] <sparcdr> it has dependency checking, just CSW stuff is kinda dumb
[21:04:33] <dclarke> sparcdr : dumb .. I guess so
[21:04:42] <madhatter> sparcdr: Yeah, I just wanted to get around copy and pasting 200 package names
[21:04:47] <sparcdr> blastwave is the mirror image of MacPorts on OSX, it doesnt use system libraries for compatibility, which is why it still runs on Nevada in the first place
[21:04:50] <dclarke> but Solaris 8 and Solaris 9 users are happy
[21:04:51] <sparcdr> you dont need to
[21:04:54] <sparcdr> one sec madhatter
[21:05:10] <dclarke> heck .. even Solaris 10 users are happy .. most of the time
[21:05:25] <sparcdr> heh except it feels kinda kludgey
[21:05:30] <sparcdr> and outdated
[21:05:36] <sparcdr> smells kinda bad, but is dependable
[21:05:41] <madhatter> sparcdr: Okay, I will
[21:05:58] <sparcdr> i have it written down, to remove csw crap one sec
[21:05:59] <madhatter> sparcdr: So best is to compile from sources then?
[21:06:02] <sparcdr> yes
[21:06:14] <madhatter> Back to the roots ;)
[21:06:21] <sparcdr> make sure you have a comprehensive LD_LIBRARY_PATH, ill give you mine
[21:06:25] <dclarke> sparcdr : strangely .. sometimes bad smelling things are what you need to get the job done
[21:06:48] <sparcdr> works for servers, solaris is good as a desktop if you run nevada except for blastwave, which wasnt made for it unfortunately
[21:07:01] <sparcdr> LD_LIBRARY_PATH="/lib:/usr/lib:/usr/local/lib:/usr/X11R6/lib:/usr/X/lib:/usr/X11/lib:/usr/dt/lib:/usr/openwin/lib:/opt/SUNWspro/lib:/usr/sfw/lib:/opt/csw/lib" \
[21:07:01] <sparcdr> INCLUDEPATH="/usr/include:/usr/local/include:/usr/X11R6/include:/usr/X/include:/usr/X11/include:/usr/dt/include:/usr/openwin/include:/opt/SUNWspro/include:/usr/sfw/include:/opt/csw/include" \
[21:07:21] <sparcdr> i still use csw, it's at the end obviously so it doesnt bork things
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[21:07:55] <sparcdr> pkgrm `pkginfo | awk '/CSW/ { print $2}' `
[21:08:00] <sparcdr> that removes all CSW poo
[21:08:34] <sparcdr> afaik it'll be interactive, piping yes| pkgrm `pkginfo | awk '/CSW/ { print $2}' ` doesnt work, so be prepared to hit y and enter a lot
[21:08:43] <dclarke> sparcdr : it is always good to hear how some people call Blastwave stuff "poo" .. just fills me with the energy I need to keep on plugging away at things
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[21:09:03] <madhatter> sparcdr: THanks
[21:09:04] <sparcdr> heh sorry, it's not personal, it wasnt made for nevada so
[21:09:12] <madhatter> ...removing...
[21:09:15] <sparcdr> i look forward to it working seemlessly
[21:09:18] <dclarke> and .. to get the CSW stuff removed .. do it in reverse chronological order
[21:09:23] <sparcdr> but that's not easy since nevada is a moving target
[21:09:35] <dclarke> and beta
[21:09:53] <sparcdr> pleh, sun offers support for SXDE, target SXDE and it wont be so hard
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[21:10:09] <sparcdr> dclarke, you the blastwave maintainer?
[21:10:18] <dclarke> "the" ?
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[21:10:21] <dclarke> er .. no
[21:10:23] <sparcdr> a/the
[21:10:27] <dclarke> yes
[21:10:36] <sparcdr> cool
[21:10:45] <sparcdr> i still use it, i just have to tweak it a lot
[21:10:51] <sparcdr> no big deal, im used to kludge
[21:11:00] <dclarke> would help if you filed bloody bug reports
[21:11:01] <sparcdr> aka regular Solaris, nasty GUI's
[21:11:16] <sparcdr> it's not gonna help
[21:11:21] <cmihai> First he calls it poo, now he calls it cludge :-). You just don't know when to stop :P
[21:11:21] <hrlmec> When I copy a package directory from my local DVD to a remote server and try to install it, it says it cannot find a package.  It seems to be because all the filenames and directories are uppercase.  How would I now add this package, without manually renaming each file/directory to upper and lower case?
[21:11:24] <madhatter> sparcdr: What shell do you use?
[21:11:29] <sparcdr> everything's linked against csw stuff, you have to setup the environment
[21:11:32] <sparcdr> bash madhatter
[21:11:44] <madhatter> sparcdr: Even for root?
[21:11:47] <sparcdr> no
[21:11:56] <sparcdr> regular sh for that
[21:12:16] <sparcdr> PATH=/stuff/bin; export PATH is what you use on sh
[21:12:17] <dclarke> sparcdr : there is no "environment" to setup.  Just stick /opt/csw/bin and /opt/csw/sbin at the front of your path
[21:12:29] <sparcdr> dclarke, breaks things
[21:12:32] <sparcdr> ie: gtk
[21:12:35] <madhatter> I am asking because the Pathes looked like bash
[21:12:42] <dclarke> sparcdr : ahh .. that monster
[21:12:53] <sparcdr> madhatter, that's my user bashrc
[21:12:54] <dclarke> did you file a bug report ?
[21:13:02] <sparcdr> it's not really fixable
[21:13:07] <sparcdr> library mismatch
[21:13:12] <dclarke> if you don't then we have no way to review packages and hold them from going to the stable tree
[21:13:28] <sparcdr> jds uses /usr/sfw/lib (gtk/expat/etc) and csw stuff will break if you use those
[21:13:29] <madhatter> sparcdr: So you not set anything as root, too
[21:13:38] <sparcdr> madhatter, i do
[21:13:46] * dclarke gives up
[21:13:47] <sparcdr> that's a different file
[21:13:58] <sparcdr> dclarke, don't give up, ill complain, no problem
[21:14:08] <sparcdr> ill even put my complaints in writing
[21:14:09] <sparcdr> :D
[21:14:29] <sparcdr> let me setup csw on this clean install of SXCE 73
[21:14:32] <madhatter> sparcdr: Ok
[21:14:51] <sparcdr> madhatter, you just need to convert it over to sh
[21:14:54] <dclarke> sparcdr : we do consider SXCE/SXDE as beat .. but still important
[21:14:58] <sparcdr> ill do it let me finish drinking this
[21:15:02] * dclarke is running SXCE now
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[21:15:13] <dclarke> beta
[21:15:16] <sparcdr> dclarke, i have sxde on my vmware box
[21:15:29] <dclarke> oooh .. VMware .. what rev ?
[21:15:30] <sparcdr> i tend to run newest ON and JDS on my OpenSolaris box
[21:16:01] <sparcdr> Workstation 6.01 and Fusion 1.1b1 (57919)
[21:16:14] <dclarke> http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/?q=node/80
[21:16:15] <madhatter> sparcdr: Is it really necessary to use sh as root? I switched that to tcsh, too, at the moment
[21:16:20] <sparcdr> yes
[21:16:34] <dclarke> sparcdr : I have VMware 6.01 but not too sure what fusion is
[21:16:35] <sparcdr> madhatter, it breaks upgrade scripts if you use non-conformant shells
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[21:16:42] <dclarke> of course .. I often run real hardware
[21:16:45] <sparcdr> Their OSX title, uses same VMX
[21:17:04] <sparcdr> i use both Workstation (On a separate box) and Fusion on my portable
[21:17:11] <sparcdr> the BIOS and such is the same, different gui
[21:17:19] <sparcdr> has about 1:1 compatibility
[21:18:02] <madhatter> sparcdr: Hm, too bad. I will switch that back then
[21:18:10] <sparcdr> madhatter, to?
[21:18:15] <sparcdr> oh yeah sh
[21:18:16] <sparcdr> blah
[21:18:24] <madhatter> sparcdr: Right
[21:18:27] <sparcdr> i can give you my bashrc and a converted one for sh
[21:18:45] <sparcdr> give me a bit making coffee and out of habit clearing my os off my Ultra-20
[21:18:54] <madhatter> I don't use bash, but I would take the sh
[21:19:01] <sparcdr> i hate sh
[21:19:14] <sparcdr> no tab completion, key mappings all crap
[21:19:26] * quasi tosses ksh-89 into the battle
[21:19:27] <sparcdr> i like tcsh about the same as bash
[21:19:30] <sparcdr> yuck
[21:19:33] * sparcdr pees on quasi
[21:19:53] <madhatter> sparcdr: That's why I use tcsh. Best history ever
[21:20:00] <sparcdr> and it's leet
[21:20:01] <sparcdr> :D
[21:20:11] <sparcdr> actually i only use tcsh on my SGI
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[21:22:38] * sparcdr brb :o
[21:22:51] <madhatter> When there are not CSW packages installed anymore I can finally rm /opt/csw?
[21:22:58] <sparcdr> yep
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[21:29:00] <madhatter> Hm, still crashes when trying to start Gnome
[21:29:16] <sparcdr> did you use my ld stuff?
[21:29:29] <sparcdr> what specifically crashes?
[21:29:45] <madhatter> sparcdr: Not yet. I only removed all CSW now
[21:30:37] <madhatter> sparcdr: Dunno exactly, gdm starts, I login, then the screen where you see what stuff is loaded for Gnome appears and then the xserver seems to restart
[21:30:52] <sparcdr> ouch
[21:30:54] <sparcdr> hmm
[21:30:59] <sparcdr> remove csw from path?
[21:31:37] <madhatter> sparcdr: Did that already, but as there is nothing in /opt/csw anymore that should not work anyway
[21:31:58] <sparcdr> try starting xorg + xterm alone, eg: DISPLAY=:0; export DISPLAY; xorg :0 &sleep 5; xterm &
[21:32:05] <sparcdr> then try some gtk app
[21:32:09] <sparcdr> or gnome-session
[21:32:23] <trochej> madhatter: gnome-cleanup for that user or somewthing along theese lines
[21:32:29] <sparcdr> ah
[21:32:38] <sparcdr> did you install any gtk stuff from csw?
[21:32:40] <trochej> madhatter: You may have screwed your gnome config
[21:32:42] <sparcdr> cause .gtk files should be rmed
[21:32:57] <sparcdr> in your home ls -al find any .gnome and .gtk stuff/dirs rm it
[21:33:08] <sparcdr> id expect a core dump somewhere too
[21:33:11] <madhatter> sparcdr: Yeah, there were some
[21:33:13] <sparcdr> those arent immediately useful
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[21:33:32] <madhatter> trochej: Okay, again my desktop layout goes to hell :)
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[21:35:09] <SunTzuTech> sparcdr: blastwave gnome is a much later version than stock solaris.  the init files are generally (At least in my experience) not compatible.
[21:35:27] <SunTzuTech> if you're gonna run multiple versions of gnome, use different accounts
[21:35:53] <sparcdr> i know, but he's using nevada, which is even newer
[21:36:01] <sparcdr> either way itll break
[21:36:06] <SunTzuTech> I had the same problem just with a home directory that was on a system with a Solaris 10 and Nevada slice using Live upgrade
[21:36:19] <sparcdr> i do clean when i can for that reason
[21:36:32] <sparcdr> less effort setting up the environment than cleaning
[21:36:42] <sparcdr> nevada systems arent production unless you're joyant :)
[21:36:43] <madhatter> There! Gnome starts again
[21:36:52] <sparcdr> sparcdr starts again!
[21:36:59] <sparcdr> im a terrible terror
[21:37:19] <sparcdr> i scared dclarke away
[21:37:30] <trochej> I am a terryfying terrorist
[21:37:52] <sparcdr> o.o
[21:37:55] <sparcdr> die
[21:37:56] <sparcdr> :p
[21:38:16] <trochej> sparcdr: Look for jeff duntham on youtube :)
[21:38:19] <trochej> and for ahmed dead terrorist
[21:38:29] <sparcdr> sounds like a waste of time
[21:38:30] <sparcdr> :/
[21:38:42] <trochej> Nope
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[21:38:50] <trochej> Really funny
[21:38:51] <sparcdr> maybe later
[21:38:54] <sparcdr> :)
[21:39:03] <g4lt-mordant> sparcdr, your next task is to scare away ian murdoch
[21:39:04] <trochej> If you don't mind some political incorrectness
[21:39:16] <sparcdr> g4lt-mordant, that's gonna take community help
[21:39:33] <sparcdr> he's like a tick, once he's dug in he kills you
[21:39:53] <sparcdr> ive seen mailinglists with his conversations
[21:39:56] <sparcdr> no thanks
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[21:40:39] <trochej> and for ahmed dead terrorist
[21:40:44] <trochej> Uhm
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[21:41:08] <madhatter> sparcdr: Can you send me the .shrc by mail?
[21:41:12] <sparcdr> blah
[21:41:21] <sparcdr> ill put it on my site once it's up later
[21:41:26] <sparcdr> http://www.carcinogenic-studios.com/
[21:41:45] <sparcdr> just got done upgrading to CURRENT (7.0), even has zfs
[21:42:08] <madhatter> sparcdr: FreeBSD?
[21:42:13] <sparcdr> yep
[21:42:25] <madhatter> sparcdr: I will check later then, I have to mv to bed
[21:42:47] <sparcdr> i have to mv my butt to /coffee/maker
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[21:42:53] <madhatter> sparcdr: Thanks again
[21:43:09] <madhatter> sparcdr: Enjoy the coffee then :)
[21:43:10] <sparcdr> dont thank me yet, much
[21:43:12] <sparcdr> thanks
[21:44:29] <cmihai> sparcdr, didn't they remove DTrace and ZFS yet?
[21:44:40] <trochej> cm	Nope
[21:44:48] <cmihai> I think there were some license discussions or something, and wanted to junk them
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[21:44:51] <sparcdr> no
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[21:44:54] <sparcdr> cmihai, it's not illegal
[21:45:00] <sparcdr> it's not part of the default kernel
[21:45:07] <sparcdr> linux is 100% illegal
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[21:45:08] <sparcdr> but not freebsd
[21:45:15] <sparcdr> maybe dtrace
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[21:45:25] <sparcdr> zfs is still in there, works completely
[21:45:40] <sparcdr> cool my host is upgrading
[21:45:44] <sparcdr> again...
[21:45:47] <sparcdr> hardware this time
[21:46:01] <cmihai> And again... MacOS has DTrace now...
[21:46:06] <sparcdr> i think he got a dual core 2200 series opteron and 2 more gb of ram
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[21:46:23] <sparcdr> cmihai, has had it since the first seed, just didnt work stable
[21:46:26] <dmesg> hi dudes
[21:46:28] <sparcdr> they have money to license it
[21:46:32] <sparcdr> hello dme
[21:46:34] <sparcdr> *dmesg
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[21:47:03] <dmesg> when starting solaris 10 i get black screen it seams like the range in not corect, how can i fix that?
[21:47:20] <sparcdr> dmesg, boot single failsafe mode, have it mount to /a
[21:47:34] <sparcdr> if you can kill it or chose console login from screen then do it
[21:47:41] <sparcdr> but if not do what i said, and chroot /a /bin/sh
[21:47:47] <sparcdr> then run /usr/X11R6/bin/xorgconfig
[21:47:56] <cmihai> dmesg, ssh in, edit your xorg.conf, delete it for autodetection or use kdmconfig to switch to XSun.
[21:48:04] <sparcdr> youll want to set the lowest modes
[21:48:09] <sparcdr> cmihai, he doesnt need ssh :D
[21:48:11] <cmihai> Just add the proper Modes Lines and Frequency for your monitor.
[21:48:13] <sparcdr> XSun sucks
[21:48:14] <palowoda> Shouldn't have to run xorgconfig in opensolaris.
[21:48:21] <sparcdr> dmesg: x86 right?
[21:48:26] <dmesg> sparcdr, yes
[21:48:30] <sparcdr> he said Solaris 10
[21:48:38] <cmihai> sparcdr, you're saying rebooting in single user mode is better than ssh-ing in?
[21:48:39] <sparcdr> cmihai, see
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[21:48:42] <sparcdr> no
[21:48:45] <sparcdr> he doesnt care
[21:48:48] <sparcdr> i know
[21:48:50] <palowoda> maybe something is wrong with solaris 10
[21:48:50] <sparcdr> im magic
[21:48:55] <sparcdr> no palowoda
[21:49:05] <palowoda> or bsd?
[21:49:08] <sparcdr> it's X.org and it's not a glitch
[21:49:10] <sparcdr> and it's not bad on BSD
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[21:49:17] <sparcdr> *based
[21:49:20] <sparcdr> at all
[21:49:27] <cmihai> It's the same damn thing on any OS.
[21:49:33] <sparcdr> duh
[21:49:34] <dmesg> im on a comand line now
[21:49:44] <cmihai> If you don't have an xorg.conf it WILL use autodetection.
[21:49:46] <sparcdr> he'll need to run xorgconfig on regular Solaris
[21:49:47] <cmihai> Sometimes that fails.
[21:49:52] <sparcdr> it fails obviously
[21:49:55] <cmihai> (duh)
[21:49:56] <sparcdr> the scan mode is too high freq
[21:50:04] <sparcdr> so yeah do what i said
[21:50:07] <sparcdr> run xorgconfig
[21:50:11] <dmesg> ok
[21:50:20] <cmihai> Exactly. Now you could do XOrg -configure, but we already know THAT fails. Make sure you google for monitor specs first mkey?
[21:50:38] <dmesg> xorgconfig not found
[21:50:39] <cmihai> (or even xorg.conf's for it, google is magick)
[21:50:43] <sparcdr> just do lowest
[21:50:50] <cmihai> grep xorgconfig /var/sadm/install/contents
[21:50:57] <sparcdr> hax
[21:50:58] <cmihai> It's not in your PATH
[21:50:59] <dmesg> ok
[21:51:04] <sparcdr> type the full path
[21:51:09] <dmesg> k
[21:51:10] <sparcdr>  /usr/X11R6/bin/xorgconfig
[21:51:16] <cmihai> Or $() it
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[21:51:58] <dmesg> not found also
[21:52:10] <sparcdr> 1.) Auto, Y, Enter, 8, 1, Enter, N, Enter, 7, 1, MyMonitor, Y, find your card enter the id, select mb, cardname
[21:52:27] <cmihai> dmesg, just type the command I gave you.
[21:52:36] <dmesg> ok
[21:52:41] * sparcdr pees on cmihai
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[21:52:56] <cmihai> Stop being such a dick.
[21:53:01] <sparcdr> im joking
[21:53:02] <cmihai> All you do is piss on people.
[21:53:02] <sparcdr> :)
[21:53:06] <sparcdr> sorry
[21:53:09] <sparcdr> i dont on all
[21:53:12] <sparcdr> just you mainly
[21:53:41] <sparcdr> why use gui xorg config?
[21:53:51] <sparcdr> it doesnt always work, and it's no easier
[21:53:59] <cmihai> The what now
[21:54:06] <dmesg> grep cant open /var/sadm/install/contents
[21:54:11] <cmihai> Are you root?
[21:54:24] <dmesg> yes
[21:54:31] <alanc> cat /etc/release
[21:54:36] <cmihai> IS it u1
[21:54:39] <cmihai> ?
[21:54:43] <dmesg> ok
[21:55:11] <dmesg> let me try to ssh to it
[21:55:15] <alanc> (though xorgconfig is in all Solaris 10 releases)
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[21:55:32] <sparcdr> alanc, greetings
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[21:55:47] <sparcdr> i already went through that and cmihai said use the X11 one, which sucks
[21:55:51] <cmihai> dmesg, why would you ssh, you already have console access.. Did you do a Full Install + OEM?
[21:56:10] <cmihai> sparcdr, no I didn't.
[21:56:19] <sparcdr> oh
[21:56:20] <sparcdr> i misread
[21:56:21] <sparcdr> nevermind
[21:56:36] <cmihai> *Sigh*
[21:56:48] <sparcdr> dclarke, pm me when you get back (Need to talk to you about csw)
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[21:57:01] <dmesg> cmihai full install, but i remember i just install a webmail server with nthe same ip, so i think i gonna change the ip firts
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[22:09:14] <sparcdr> :o
[22:09:19] <sparcdr> dmesg: hey
[22:09:31] <sparcdr> i can help you with xorgconfig
[22:11:26] <dmesg> sparcdr ok
[22:11:40] <sparcdr> once you've sshed and gained root tell me
[22:12:08] <dmesg> i going to safe mode is ok?
[22:13:14] <sparcdr> sure
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[22:13:23] <sparcdr> failsafe, and answer y to mount /a
[22:13:31] <sparcdr> tell me when it's at a console
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[22:16:48] <dmesg> ok
[22:17:06] <sparcdr> yes?
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[22:17:24] <sparcdr> type chroot /a /bin/sh
[22:17:34] <sparcdr> then type /usr/X11R6/bin/xorgconfig
[22:19:06] <dmesg> sparcdr, wait little i think i make a mistake
[22:19:37] <sparcdr> k
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[22:51:55] <sparcdr> so it seems that bfuing backwards doesnt work so well... dont feel like dealing with compiling all of the kernel, has a lot of steps, so i had to revert to sxde 05/07 (b64a) so i could try out the current xen
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[22:55:02] <alanc> hmm, need to get someone to replace stevel as the updater-of-the-topic when new sxde builds are released
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[22:55:51] <sparcdr> ill replace it :)
[22:55:58] <sparcdr> (cant obviously)
[22:56:20] <sparcdr> im always on top of newest builds (public ones) but yeah
[22:56:56] <alanc> (sxce 74 just got announced)
[22:57:04] <sparcdr> i saw
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[22:57:50] <sparcdr> id assume that means ON 74 + JDS 75(?)
[22:58:05] <sparcdr> pretty sure JDS 75 was out for a while, (1wk)
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[23:00:19] <alanc> no, SXCE 74 == ON74 + JDS 74
[23:00:25] <alanc> that's why they call it 74
[23:00:41] <alanc> JDS 75 will be in SXCE 75
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[23:00:57] <alanc> JDS just posts their binaries earlier than ON does for testing
[23:00:59] <sparcdr> ah
[23:01:02] <sparcdr> yea
[23:01:34] <sparcdr> ive been using jds 75 for 3 days so far, evolution is the only thing that crashes, already submitted a bug report.  something with the account add thread
[23:01:35] <alanc> but SXCE 74 closed on 9/24, and JDS 75 wouldn't have been built yet
[23:01:59] <sparcdr> so they give 2 weeks of testing for community, and release every month?
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[23:02:09] <sparcdr> or 2 weeks?
[23:02:12] <alanc> SXCE is released every two weeks
[23:02:17] <sparcdr> okay
[23:02:28] <sparcdr> you run SXCE?
[23:03:05] <alanc> the entire built image gets about 2 days of testing (mostly making sure it installs and boots on all the machines in the install lab) before going into the posting pipeline for opensolaris downloads, which adds another week or so
[23:03:27] <sparcdr> id assume being x maintainer you have 4 machines or something, for Solaris 10, SXDE, SXCE and current bits
[23:03:44] <alanc> my office machines all run Nevada
[23:03:52] <alanc> mostly all on 74 at the moment
[23:03:56] <sparcdr> so you dont handle Solaris 10 stuff
[23:04:02] <alanc> S10 is in the lab when needed
[23:04:06] <sparcdr> ok
[23:04:13] <sparcdr> im using 74 also
[23:04:30] <sparcdr> actually two kernels, 74 and 66 (xen)
[23:04:46] <sparcdr> i flip flop between them, do a lot of testing against them
[23:04:50] <alanc> SXDE is just a SXCE snapshot - once we've delivered, we're done, and don't touch it again, so there's no point keeping a machine around running it
[23:04:57] <sparcdr> I know that
[23:05:08] <sparcdr> since 74 is out it's time to upgrade
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[23:05:23] <sparcdr> ive already done an upgrade to SXCE 73 from SXDE 09/07
[23:05:38] <sparcdr> Which is 70b
[23:05:44] <sparcdr> (ON) that is
[23:06:03] <sparcdr> was JDS 2.18.2, JDS 70?
[23:06:41] <palowoda> Still marketing JDS?
[23:06:46] <sparcdr> no
[23:06:53] <sparcdr> i dont know what release that was
[23:07:03] <sparcdr> it was part of SXDE 09/07 which is ON 70b
[23:07:38] <seanmcg> alanc: will your Xvnc bits deliver a c vncviewer instead of the current java one ?
[23:07:48] <sparcdr> good question seanmcg
[23:09:59] <seanmcg> alanc: never mind, just caught up with the psarc mail..
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[23:11:06] <sparcdr> im new to zfs, do you need to have unallocated space to create a zpool?
[23:11:33] <alanc> seanmcg: soon, but not in the first putback
[23:11:34] <sparcdr> i have 107262MB unallocated, would I need to create another slice?
[23:12:33] <seanmcg> yes.  zfs needs a slice or better still whole disk(s)
[23:12:37] <seanmcg> thanks alanc
[23:12:42] <alanc> *sigh* just when I understood that xVM == Xen, Sun marketing goes and makes xVM == anything remotely virtual
[23:12:50] <palowoda> Better still two or more drives.
[23:13:05] <sparcdr> i dont have whole disks, well i have one 160gb ide + ~100gb unallocated on my sata disk
[23:13:14] <palowoda> cheap huh
[23:13:16] <seanmcg> xVM == LDOMS and or Xen and or <insert say qemu ?-)>
[23:13:20] <sparcdr> of course
[23:13:26] <sparcdr> for now
[23:13:52] <WickedWicky> soon it will be more superior and stronger compared to Omega Supreme!
[23:13:54] <sparcdr> so would I create another partition as type solaris on the first disk (It contains the OS)
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[23:14:18] <palowoda> gee buy more drives and get over it.
[23:14:24] <sparcdr> blah
[23:14:25] <sparcdr> no
[23:14:32] <palowoda> suffer than
[23:14:35] <sparcdr> i dont think the ultra-20 can hold more than 2 disks
[23:14:41] <sparcdr> suffer?  zfs can be used on partial disks
[23:14:45] <sparcdr> im asking how
[23:14:54] <palowoda> use some usb drives
[23:15:04] <sparcdr> ok
[23:15:09] <sparcdr> i have a 120gb usb 2.0 external
[23:15:10] <sparcdr> :)
[23:15:11] <WickedWicky> add the slice sparcdr , zpool add pool /dev/dsk/lalalalala
[23:15:21] <WickedWicky> pool being pool name, obviously
[23:15:24] <sparcdr> you'd recommend mirror right?
[23:15:30] <WickedWicky> of course
[23:15:32] <sparcdr> ok
[23:15:40] <gisburn> alanc: Is stuart around ?
[23:15:51] <sparcdr> zpool create mypool mirror t1blah1 t2blah2
[23:16:04] <alanc> gisburn: he was running off to a meeting a few minutes ago
[23:16:06] <WickedWicky> that looks like it ya
[23:16:09] <sparcdr> ok
[23:16:11] <sparcdr> thanks
[23:16:30] <gisburn> alanc: the "few" minutes are likely 45mins ago, right ?
[23:16:38] <WickedWicky> eventhough i go with palowoda on the going for USB disks
[23:16:39] <alanc> no more like 15
[23:16:49] <alanc> I know he was going to be on a call at 1:30
[23:16:51] <sparcdr> i have only one
[23:16:58] <sparcdr> and 100gb spare on my internal disk
[23:16:59] <palowoda> gee they are only 20.00
[23:17:03] <sparcdr> not really
[23:17:07] <sparcdr> more like 40
[23:17:12] <sparcdr> and i just spent 2800 on this ultra-20
[23:17:13] <WickedWicky> which is peanuts
[23:17:14] <sparcdr> so gimme a break
[23:17:15] <WickedWicky> storage is cheap
[23:17:16] <palowoda> your getting riped off.
[23:17:23] <sparcdr> that includes tax + warrenty
[23:17:26] <sparcdr> it was only 2100
[23:17:39] <sparcdr> i live in cali, i got $200 tax tagged on
[23:17:41] <palowoda> sparcdr: They should give you hardware free
[23:17:44] <WickedWicky> my Ultra 5 has more storage :P
[23:17:45] <sparcdr> why's that?
[23:17:49] <sparcdr> i have 250gb
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[23:17:56] <sparcdr> i just have two instances of solaris
[23:17:56] <palowoda> because your special.
[23:18:02] <sparcdr> palowoda, gee thanks
[23:18:19] <sparcdr> ok
[23:18:20] <sparcdr> brb
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[23:47:13] <axisys> anyone knows why all sunray commands start with ut ?
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[23:55:39] <jbk> hello
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