[00:00:30] <CIA-26> johnz: 6592898 open elfsign, libelfsign
[00:00:41] <Bartman007> oh, yay, nvidia raid crap hangs when it reads the GPT partition table.
[00:00:56] <Bartman007> even though it is disabled in the BIOS.  grrr.
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[00:15:34] <reflect> zfs, even when you tell it to use "the whole disk", it leaves block zero free.. doesn't it?
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[00:18:20] <Teltariat> Greets folks
[00:18:28] <Teltariat> Is there anyway to rename a zpool?
[00:19:35] <cmihai> You can export and reimport it under a different name
[00:19:41] <Berny> .oO(besides zpool destroy and zpool create?)
[00:19:52] <Teltariat> cmihai: I see
[00:20:08] <cmihai> zpool export yourpool
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[00:20:14] <cmihai> zpool import yourpool newpool
[00:20:17] <Teltariat> Berny: well what if my pool had data in it that I didn't want to lose, but had a stupid name, like 'binky".  How would I rename it without losing the data
[00:20:26] <cmihai> lol
[00:20:26] <Teltariat> cmihai: k, thnx
[00:20:41] <cmihai> PS: that takes it offline
[00:21:41] <Berny> whats wrong with blinky?
[00:21:43] <millhouse> hey
[00:21:44] <cmihai> You could also clone and export / import that...
[00:22:12] <Teltariat> Berny: nevermind. :|
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[00:22:50] <cmihai> Teltariat, did you check out "zfs rename"?
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[00:22:59] <Teltariat> zfs rename does not rename pools
[00:23:07] <cmihai> Yes
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[00:23:18] <Teltariat> It does?
[00:23:26] <cmihai> But I thought you might have idiotic names for your filesystems too :P
[00:23:36] <Teltariat> You're mean. :(
[00:24:04] <cmihai> A contraire!
[00:24:07] <cmihai> u^
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[00:27:25] <Teltariat> So ZFS allows you to shuttle ZFS datasets back and forth between disparate pools on disparate machines, right?
[00:27:41] <cmihai> Yep
[00:28:00] <Teltariat> Thats good, because this machine is only meant as a temporary setup.... temporary, hopefully.
[00:28:03] <cmihai> Without indianness issues
[00:28:10] <cmihai> See Little Endian vs. Big Endian
[00:28:18] <cmihai> Means you can move from SPARC to x86 like that ;-)
[00:28:18] <Teltariat> I only run x86, so I'm good
[00:28:29] <Teltariat> I know about endianness
[00:28:30] <cmihai> Doesn't matter, that's the fun part :-]
[00:29:20] <Teltariat> Its almost like it doesn't make sense to run a file server using anything else.
[00:29:38] <jamesd_> but do you know about bombay and mumbai?
[00:29:41] <jamesd_> ;-)
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[00:30:03] <Teltariat> Bombay?  Mumbai?  I heard the weathers touchy over there, and women hot.
[00:30:33] <cmihai> Endianness damnit :P.
[00:31:38] <Teltariat> oh
[00:32:23] <Bartman007> cmihai: now you will be quoted out of context of ZFS solving conflicts between rivialing indian factions.
[00:32:42] <cmihai> heh :-)
[00:35:18] <sommerfeld> world peace through avoiding data loss
[00:36:06] <millhouse> does anyone have experience with ZFS and iSCSI?
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[00:37:55] <cmihai> millhouse, depends :P.
[00:38:00] <cmihai> iSCSI with ZFS is pie
[00:38:13] * Berny wants a slice
[00:38:16] <cmihai> zfs set shareiscsi=on storage/p0rn
[00:38:26] <Berny> .oO(steak&kidney please)
[00:38:28] <cmihai> Enjoy :-)
[00:39:24] <millhouse> well, i've got 3 iscsi targets (opensolaris b68) attached (as a raidz set) to a Solaris 10u4 initiator.  For some reason, one of the iscsi targets all of a sudden is saying that i'ts getting read errors and checksum errors (msg-8000-gh).
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[00:39:49] <millhouse> but the drives in that system seem to be fine...  I'm just curious if there was any reason why it'd start to fail like that
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[00:45:18] <cmihai> millhouse, I have no idea.
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[00:52:24] <mastaofdisasta> hey fellas, how do I install NIC drivers on opensolaris?
[00:53:18] <cmihai> Depends. Most ship as packages (3rd party stuff).
[00:53:25] <nachox> depends on the driver
[00:53:27] <cmihai> Though it could be you just didn't plumb up your card and it's already supported
[00:53:33] <cmihai> dladm show-dev && dladm show-link
[00:53:40] <cmihai> Does that show anything?
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[00:54:03] <cmihai> If it's a package, pkgadd -d it. It's usually best to read your vendors documentation...
[00:54:07] <nachox> lo wesolows
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[00:55:06] <mastaofdisasta> I'm trying to run it on vmware
[00:55:11] <mastaofdisasta> but it won't detect the NIC
[00:55:20] <mastaofdisasta> I run a ifconfig -a
[00:55:24] <mastaofdisasta> only loopbacks
[00:56:19] <Triskelios> mastaofdisasta: dladm show-link
[00:56:30] <Triskelios> mastaofdisasta: ifconfig won't list interfaces that haven't been plumbed
[00:56:36] <mastaofdisasta> ok
[00:57:24] <cmihai> mastaofdisasta, is there are reason you're ignoring me?
[00:57:45] <Triskelios> mastaofdisasta: yeah, listen to cmihai
[00:57:49] <mastaofdisasta> cmihai: no sorry I did not notice you were talking to me
[00:57:54] <mastaofdisasta> thanks cmihai
[00:57:54] <cmihai> ...
[00:58:27] <nachox> cmihai, everyone hates you ;) you're in the global freenode ignore list
[00:59:08] <cmihai> It's just one of those days :-\
[00:59:31] <nachox> vmware cards should be pcn
[00:59:32] <mastaofdisasta> hey fellas, I'm a linux/BSD user... what would u guys say the advantage for solaris??
[00:59:44] <cmihai> Scalability.
[00:59:49] <cmihai> That's something BSD blows at.
[00:59:52] <cmihai> Hard.
[01:00:10] <nachox> mastaofdisasta, use it for a while and then come back and tell us :)
[01:00:33] <cmihai> mastaofdisasta, though that's not something quite obvious in a VMware machine.
[01:00:38] <mastaofdisasta> yea, I sort of had that planned out
[01:00:53] <cmihai> Solaris SMP is great though. And the network stack and even SMF (init) is parallel (multithreaded)
[01:00:55] <mastaofdisasta> so far simple net config seems more tedius
[01:01:02] <cmihai> And trust me, it makes all the diffrence.
[01:01:14] <cmihai> mastaofdisasta, I disagree. It's quite similar to OpenBSD.
[01:01:19] <Triskelios> mastaofdisasta: it's really because you're accustomed to something else
[01:01:20] <cmihai> The network configuration that is.
[01:01:31] <cmihai> Just think of how different BSD is to Linux.
[01:01:32] <nachox> net config is not harder than linux or bsd, it is just different
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[01:01:55] <mastaofdisasta> yea, I'm sure I'll see it that way soon as I get a hang of it
[01:02:16] <mastaofdisasta> I can't wait to play around with zfs though
[01:02:30] <mastaofdisasta> that's what really drove me to get into solaris
[01:02:53] <mastaofdisasta> I saw an interview with 2 of the developers, it seemed interesting
[01:02:57] <nachox> solaris's greatest advantage is proper documentation if you ask me, it has other really cool stuff though
[01:03:22] <mastaofdisasta> and dtrace of course
[01:03:45] <mastaofdisasta> I love when I'm onto something new
[01:03:53] <Triskelios> there's a host of other tools that make debugging programs easy
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[01:07:43] <sleepcat> the best thing about solaris is that it makes you really elite
[01:08:13] <sleepcat> you are using a real UNIX (C) (T) (R).
[01:08:30] <nachox> ?? that's... stupid...
[01:08:31] <Mdx4> sleepcat: new edition of slackware ? ;P
[01:08:57] <sleepcat> when you tell people you use solaris they have no choice but to worship at your feet.
[01:09:00] <cmihai> sleepcat, so is every 14 year old teenage girl running MacOS
[01:09:15] <cmihai> She's using Real UNIX, and it has DTrace and ZFS.
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[01:09:23] <Mdx4> cmihai: MacOS isn't a unix :)
[01:09:26] <nachox> lol
[01:09:29] <sleepcat> cmihai: we are l33t until leopard
[01:09:30] <nachox> sure is
[01:09:31] <cmihai> Mdx4, it is.
[01:09:42] <sleepcat> leopard is real UNIX (C) (TM) (R)]
[01:10:03] <Mdx4> cmihai: OSX has Mach with the BSD api attached on.
[01:10:17] <sleepcat> all previous ones aren't if you look at the unix website.
[01:10:37] <sleepcat> according to the reverend don kool
[01:10:55] <libkeiser> that's nice.  it's still mach at the core
[01:11:09] <cmihai> The Open Group says it's UNIX, it's UNIX!
[01:11:19] <Mdx4> kextstat  | grep bsd
[01:11:37] <cmihai> MacOS X 10.5 is UNIX 03, JUST like Solaris
[01:11:38] <sleepcat> get a real UNIX machine according to the open group.
[01:11:41] <Mdx4> cmihai: sure is unix compliant so is a unix :) but isn't monolitic etc etc.
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[01:11:51] <cmihai> Mdx4, http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/xy.htm READ
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[01:12:12] <sleepcat> is opensolaris UNIX according to Don Kool's strict criteria?
[01:12:29] <cmihai> Do I care that MacOS X is a Mach kernel with a FreeBSD (Darwin) based ON with a Aqua interface and some GNU tools? not really.
[01:12:31] <libkeiser> do you guys not listen? it's fucking mach. bolting bsd layers on top doesn't make it just like solaris, aix, etc.
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[01:12:46] <cmihai> libkeiser, or... Tru64... UNIX?
[01:12:49] <cmihai> Guess what kernel that has.
[01:12:58] <cmihai> Try.
[01:13:05] <mastaofdisasta> hello again fellas, cmihai that command "dladm show-link" didn't show anything
[01:13:15] <cmihai> Tru64 UNIX, again, UNIX! is based on OSF/1
[01:13:20] <cmihai> A MACH based kernel.
[01:13:42] <cmihai> SO YES, Tru64 _IS_ UNIX and so IS MAC OS X 10.5. End of story.
[01:13:44] <Triskelios> cmihai: of course, he means "unix" from a systems perspective, not a standards one
[01:14:02] <Mdx4> Mhh Windows NT with the POSIX subsystem is unix too ? :P
[01:14:34] <cmihai> No, Windows NT is more of a VMS :P
[01:14:47] <cmihai> Ask Dave Cutler why.
[01:14:57] <Mdx4> cmihai: was :)
[01:16:24] <cmihai> Look, it's more than just POSIX
[01:16:44] <cmihai> It's also the Single Unix Specification (v3)  http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/
[01:17:22] <Triskelios> cmihai: SUSv3 only really specifies interfaces, I think it's clear that the argument here is over the design details
[01:17:26] <libkeiser> this is pointless.  you're arguing that things are the same based upon external interfaces.  others are arguing they're different due to architecture.
[01:18:00] <Mdx4> libkeiser: you catch it, i and you were talking about architecture, he about APIs :)
[01:18:14] <mastaofdisasta> what about users perspective... what's unix...
[01:18:15] <nachox> again the unix agrument, it gets old fast...
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[01:18:22] <mastaofdisasta> just a shell and FHS
[01:18:25] <cmihai> Mdx4, does it matter?
[01:18:34] <Mdx4> cmihai: a lot :)
[01:18:39] <delewis> and this is what you call a 'verbal dispute'. You're trying to argue with one another without setting aside a common set of definitions of terms you're using in your arguments, like UNIX.
[01:18:40] <Triskelios> cmihai: yes, for performance and scalability and availability
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[01:19:10] <libkeiser> and if you're a kernel programmer, it matters a hell of a lot
[01:19:17] <Triskelios> cmihai: this is why there is still a large field for operating systems
[01:19:18] <cmihai> Mdx4, as Tru64 UNIX (with it's OSF/1 / Mach based kernel) is UNIX, and with opengroup saying MacOS X 10.5 is UNIX, it's bleeding UNIX. I don't care if it's crappy UNIX or unscalable UNIX, it's bleeding UNIX. For better or worse.
[01:19:37] <Triskelios> cmihai: your definition of UNIX differs from the one in this discussion
[01:20:04] <Mdx4> cmihai: they have certified that its api is UNIX compliant :)
[01:20:26] <cmihai> So.. according to you, what IS UNIX? Solaris, AIX and HP-UX?
[01:20:31] <Mdx4> also windows had and could have an UNIX compliant API but Windows is not a unix :)
[01:20:38] <Teltariat> I was about to try to setup ZFS boot on a Solaris 10 8/07 system, and just realized that I could do this just fine in Nevada, but the bits might not be available for Sol_10 8/07.  ZFS boot bits are for snv_62 and above.  Can I do this with Solaris 10 8/07?
[01:20:44] <nachox> unix is what the opengroup says it is, period
[01:20:50] <cmihai> Thank you!
[01:20:53] <cmihai> Now it's 2vs2 :D
[01:21:14] <delewis> there's two definitions of UNIX here: (1) access to the trademark of "UNIX", which requires that you be SUSv3-compliant and (2) an operating system which has a direct lineage to the original Research UNIX.
[01:21:31] <delewis> pick one. All of you are simply talking past each other, because you can't agree on a common definition.
[01:21:52] <sleepcat> (2) is called Unix-like
[01:21:56] <Triskelios> delewis: I think cmihai and nachox are refusing to acknowledge that "unix" can mean more than one thing
[01:22:01] <delewis> sleepcat: no, that's incorrect.
[01:22:17] <sleepcat> (1) _is_ UNIX (C) (R) (TM).
[01:22:33] <sleepcat> if you want to play with the big boys use (1).
[01:22:39] <delewis> UNIX-like (IMO) is an operating that does not have a direct lineage to Research UNIX, but rather, clones UNIX functionalily via a seperate codebase.
[01:22:42] <nachox> Triskelios, not at all, i just said what i said in an effort to end the argument
[01:23:07] <sleepcat> delewis: GNU is Not Unix.
[01:23:18] <delewis> sleepcat: what relevance does that have?
[01:23:36] <sleepcat> GNU extensions pretending to be real unix commands
[01:23:38] <delewis> no one has yet to mention GNU.
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[01:23:54] <libkeiser> sleepcat: the "big boys"? come on. there's a lot more to enterprise software than a TOG stamp of approval.
[01:23:57] * delewis has better things to do than participate in this verbal dispute
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[01:24:27] <nachox> delewis, i think the best thing we can do is not talk, no matter what we say it will bring more argument
[01:24:28] <sleepcat> TOG stamp of approval means my scripts will run nicely on a _real_ UNIX machine
[01:24:29] <nachox> s
[01:24:31] <jamesd__> delewis: yeah, like you haven't done it before
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[01:24:58] <cmihai> That's funny, because IBM AIX and HP-UX have no direct lineage to UNIX either. Hell, HP-UX's kernel was written in frickin' PASCAL
[01:25:03] <cmihai> (when it came out)
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[01:25:30] <delewis> jamesd__: I typically present my definition of UNIX before presenting an argument on what is and what isn't a UNIX. That's failed to happen here, yet.
[01:25:36] <sommerfeld> cmihai: uh, you may be thinking of apollo domain/os.  its kernel was definitely in pascal.
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[01:25:54] <cmihai> Nope, HP-UX, it used Pascal with high level functions
[01:25:57] <Mdx4> The sad thing is that i have a PPC Notebook so i'll not have a certified unix with LEOPARD :(
[01:26:00] <delewis> sommerfeld: HP-UX's kernel was, as well.
[01:26:09] <sleepcat> The way I see it, something is organic when it is certified organic.  Something may be organic if it is natural but there is no guarentee that it is organic.  Just my 2 cents
[01:26:17] <delewis> HP extended Pascal for low-level programming.
[01:26:22] <cmihai> MODCAL
[01:26:24] <sommerfeld> not by the time they let me see the source
[01:26:36] <delewis> sommerfeld: those bits have been re-written.
[01:26:39] <delewis> we're talking early 80s here.
[01:26:46] <sommerfeld> it was a ungainly bsd-ish pile of code rewritten to look like sysV
[01:27:02] <nachox> you mean the time when people thought pascal was a good idea? :)
[01:27:11] <delewis> basically. :-)
[01:27:16] <delewis> IBM did something similar with AIX.
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[01:27:39] <Mdx4> Poor the next generation they  'll have kernel written in JAVA :/
[01:27:46] <cmihai> aaaah
[01:27:47] * cmihai runs out screaming
[01:27:54] <jbk> i still remember trying to understand how hp-ux's memory management worked
[01:27:59] <jbk> that was an exercise in pain
[01:28:01] <delewis> they had to exercise their fetish for PL/I.
[01:28:02] <cmihai> Mdx4, they tried doing drivers in Java
[01:28:18] <nachox> they *ARE* trying
[01:28:35] <Mdx4> jbk: i've nothing to complain to the HP-UX MM, i can't say the same about the dirty penguin.
[01:29:01] <cmihai> delewis, yeah, much of AIX 2's kernel was PL/I...
[01:29:11] <cmihai> Weird bastards...
[01:29:21] <jbk> at least it wasn't apl :)
[01:29:26] <nachox> PL/I ?
[01:29:34] <Stric> Mdx4: I've seen stuff about writing kernel drivers in Java :)
[01:29:53] <cmihai> It's a COBOL-ish piece of crap
[01:29:56] <Mdx4> Stric: at this point better use ADA :)
[01:30:11] <mastaofdisasta> cmihai: that command didn't work
[01:30:20] <Mdx4> i can't understand why do all with java.. is a fever..
[01:30:34] <mastaofdisasta> well it worked, I just didn't get any output
[01:30:37] <cmihai> nachox, it's basically the horrible spawn of COBOL, Fortran and ALGOL
[01:30:40] <mastaofdisasta> dladm show-link
[01:30:54] <Mdx4> Stric: and i wanna see a Java doing DMA..
[01:31:15] <Mdx4> fighting with the DMA controller about the type-mismatch.
[01:31:55] <cmihai> Writing Solaris Device Drivers in Java: http://research.sun.com/techrep/2006/abstract-156.html
[01:31:56] <cmihai> Yeah.
[01:31:57] <Stric> just serialize it :)
[01:32:00] <cmihai> Java.
[01:32:29] <cmihai> Java inside the ******* kernel
[01:32:30] <nachox> cmihai, when i hear COBOL y smell money
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[01:32:42] <Mdx4> they are simply foul .
[01:32:55] <nachox> s/y/i/
[01:33:12] <Mdx4> ahahah an IRQ that have to wait the gc :^)
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[01:37:20] <cmihai> Really, Sun's greatest flaw is mucking around with Jaba
[01:37:31] <cmihai> They even changed the damn ticker symbol to JABA
[01:37:50] <cmihai> It's a nice language, we get it... but gimme a break.
[01:38:47] <cmihai> And when they started replacing tools and writing new ones for Solaris (it was an actual requirement I gather) in Java
[01:38:55] <sleepcat> i have a pony tail.  I am new age and everything should be called java
[01:39:03] <cmihai> heh
[01:39:15] <sleepcat> even my ticker.
[01:39:16] <cmihai> .. even though it has little to NO connection to Java
[01:39:26] <cmihai> Like... say.. Java Desktop System?
[01:39:35] <sleepcat> my little pony said that branding is everything
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[01:46:58] <sommerfeld> cmihai: PL/I as opposed to PL/1 ?
[01:50:35] <cmihai> sommerfeld, yes.
[01:50:48] <cmihai> They actually wanted to call it PL/1 first, but I they've changed their minds.
[01:50:57] <cmihai> It was also called NPL
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[01:59:43] <sommerfeld> IIRC the multics folks called it PL/1 (compiler command was named "pl1")
[02:00:49] <cmihai> Might have been called so for a bried period of time I guess. But "pee el eye" sounds better than "pee el one"
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[02:09:49] <cmihai> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030926 ;D
[02:13:40] <sleepcat> how does sun make modifications to ipfilter when the license forbids it?
[02:14:08] <sleepcat> http://doc.m0n0.ch/handbook/apas05.html
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[02:16:46] <cmihai> Cuz they know Darren Reed
[02:17:28] <cmihai> They license it or something.
[02:18:48] <delewis> more so, they hired Darren Reed. :-)
[02:20:00] <cmihai> Yeah, he does have a@sun blog... makes sense :-)
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[02:23:15] <gdamore> ipfilter's license forbids modification?  I'm surprised that Darren would have used such a license.
[02:27:38] <sleepcat> gdamore: yeah, ipfilter cannot be redistributed if it has been modified.
[02:28:15] <bda> It's the reason OpenBSD developed pf.
[02:28:27] * bda is not very happy with ipf.
[02:29:54] <alanc> the license you linked to says it may be modified
[02:30:11] <alanc> 'Redistribution and use, with or without modification, in source and binary forms, are permitted...'
[02:31:09] <gdamore> its a BSDish license.
[02:31:26] <alanc> with an added 'Don't you GPL me' clause thrown in
[02:31:27] <gdamore> ipfilter *can* be redistributed, modified, whatever.
[02:31:35] <gdamore> yeah.  i like that one.
[02:32:12] <gdamore> actually it is *not* BSDish.
[02:32:19] <gdamore>  * The licence and distribution terms for any publically available version or
[02:32:19] <gdamore>  * derivative of this code cannot be changed. i.e. this code cannot simply be
[02:32:19] <gdamore>  * copied, in part or in whole, and put under another distribution licence
[02:32:19] <gdamore>  * [including the GNU Public Licence.]
[02:32:32] <gdamore>  * The licence and distribution terms for any publically available version or
[02:32:33] <gdamore>  * derivative of this code cannot be changed. i.e. this code cannot simply be
[02:32:33] <gdamore>  * copied, in part or in whole, and put under another distribution licence
[02:32:33] <gdamore>  * [including the GNU Public Licence.]
[02:32:40] <gdamore> sorry for double pasting.
[02:33:04] <alanc> http://www.linux.com/articles/12774 has the terms OpenBSD objected to, which weren't in the URL pasted earlier
[02:33:26] <gdamore> my read of that is that unlike the BSD license, which allows *binary* distributions to gain more restrictive terms, this doesn't.
[02:34:23] <gdamore> of course, the license *allows* binary only distributions, so its hard to imagine anything more restrictive than what this requires.  Technically not BSDish, but for all intents and purposes it is the same.
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[02:39:14] <gdamore> all that article does is prove to me yet again, that de Raadt is an arsehole.
[02:39:47] <gdamore> although, I don't know why Darren didn't just use a BSD license in the first place, since I'm *fairly* sure that is what he intended.
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[02:47:40] <sleepcat> is pf better than ipf?
[02:53:57] * dlg bite his tongue
[02:54:55] <sleepcat> the wikipedia article on pf seems to condem ipf to inferiour status
[02:55:31] <dlg> try them both and make your own judjgement
[02:55:36] <dlg> or judgement
[03:00:18] <CIA-26> gd78059: 6603852 dmfe should support x86 (fix packaging)
[03:00:21] <sleepcat> dlg: I'd prefer to trust the judgement of experts
[03:00:30] <sleepcat> and not my own
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[03:02:02] <iwkse> hi all, i'm trying to install opensolaris SXCE on a virtualbox but while booting it sticks and do not continue..any hints?
[03:02:29] <sleepcat> iwkse: do you have an nvidia graphics card?
[03:02:35] <iwkse> sleepcat: ati
[03:02:58] <iwkse> sleepcat: using open drivers
[03:03:09] <sleepcat> do a -kd to get the kernel debugger at grub
[03:03:17] <iwkse> ok
[03:03:19] <sleepcat> or do a -v to get verbose output
[03:07:06] <iwkse> it stops after printing isa0 at root
[03:07:11] <iwkse> do yo need more info?
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[03:37:22] <alanc> hmm, never seen the "Only stupid people login to gnome as root" dialog before...guess that's cool
[03:38:10] <dlg> why is it stupid?
[03:38:23] <dlg> dont they trust their own code?
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[03:38:44] <nachox> of course not
[03:38:51] * dlg look disgusted
[03:39:09] <alanc> well, it actually says something like "You are running as a priveleged user, it's safer to run as a normal user"
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[03:39:30] <dlg> i can read subtext
[03:39:35] <dlg> its a gift
[03:40:01] <Stric> don't underestimate a simple "whops" in the file manager either..
[03:40:55] <andyshack> Morning. My mail log seems to be getting a bit bit, can I archive it by just renaming it foo.bak and making a new blank file ?
[03:41:32] <bda> logadm(1M)
[03:41:38] <andyshack> thanks
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[03:59:08] <mastaofdisasta> is there a way to bond 2 NICs in solaris?
[03:59:20] <mastaofdisasta> have them run LACP?
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[04:10:17] <flyingparchment> mastaofdisasta: dladm
[04:10:37] <Triskelios> dladm calls it link aggregation
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[04:52:20] <andyshack> is there some way that i can sort the output of ostfix
[04:52:56] <andyshack> erk, sort the output of du -h / |more by size ?
[04:53:24] <jamesd> du -k  | sort -n
[04:53:31] <jamesd> not by h, but close enough
[04:53:36] <andyshack> nice
[04:57:17] <kjetilho> I like du | awk '$1>9999'
[04:57:38] <kjetilho> the problem with using sort is that you won't get any output until du(1) is done.
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[05:04:04] <andyshack> nice.
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[06:00:19] <kspath> du -ak | sort -nr   is my preference most of the time
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[06:14:43] <Triskelios> uh... is stat64 in a 32-bit app ever supposed to return EOVERFLOW?
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[06:35:50] <Triskelios> oh, nevermind: -rw-r--r--   1 1015     100         1920 Dec  3  2071 /export/home/signal/zrt/System Ring Tones.pdb
[06:39:28] <Teltariat> From the command line, one can easily see the partitions on a disk with fdisk.  But what would one use if one wanted to see the _slices_ within a Solaris partition?
[06:40:28] <Triskelios> prtvtoc
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[06:45:16] <Teltariat> Thanks
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[06:59:29] <andyshack> cest la vie
[07:01:22] <Teltariat> Oui oui, mon frere.
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[07:26:43] * Teltariat wonders why prtvtoc has to use type numbers to describe what each slice is.  How come it can't just print what its supposed to be?
[07:27:11] <Teltariat> Backwards compatibility, perhaps?  If so, they should have a "-H" flag for "human readable output"
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[07:39:32] <Fish> hello
[07:40:33] <Teltariat> Hi
[07:41:13] <Teltariat> Whats an EFI partition?  Old school Solaris?
[07:41:40] <bda> ...no.
[07:42:11] <Teltariat> Well I don't know, I was trying to guess.
[07:42:25] <Teltariat> Though I think I've found my answer
[07:44:43] <e^ipi> it's the type of partition label that EFI likes
[07:44:57] <e^ipi> EFI is used in itanic and intel macintoshes
[07:45:33] <e^ipi> because intel likes being difficult for some unknown reason and can't be bothered to use OFW like the rest of the world
[07:46:02] <Teltariat> Ah, I see.  Thanks, e^ipi.
[07:46:07] <Teltariat> I have another question
[07:46:35] <Teltariat> I had some Zpools all pretty and set in a running system of mine.  Now I'm working on that system from within the rescue environment of the Solaris installation DVD
[07:46:48] <Teltariat> In order for me to get at the zpools, I have to import them with zpool import -f
[07:46:53] <Teltariat> I was warned that:
[07:47:00] <Teltariat> "These may be in use in other system"
[07:47:14] <Teltariat> By forcing the import, do I impair operation of that pool in the native system in any way?
[07:47:19] <Teltariat> Stupid question, but I'm curious
[07:47:34] <e^ipi> you'll need to re-import them on the other system
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[07:47:59] <Teltariat> Alright, thats what I figured.  Problem is, these pools are to serve as root for the other system
[07:48:11] <Teltariat> so if they haven't been imported yet, would the sys boot? :-S
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[07:48:53] <Teltariat> I can just copy the zpool/zfs cache file, right?  I'm sure I was reading about that somewhere
[07:49:22] <sommerfeld> there are two things: 1) zpool.cache in the root filesystem 2) hostid of the last system in the pool.
[07:49:41] <sommerfeld> now on x86 the hostid is effectively a random number picked at install time
[07:50:19] <Teltariat> sommerfeld: In the LiveDVD environment, / is totally RO.  I would find the zpool.cache within /tmp, right?
[07:50:30] <Teltariat> Rather, let me look. :)
[07:51:45] <sommerfeld> zpool.cache file might not get written if /etc/zfs isn't writeable
[07:51:55] <Teltariat> I think thats whats happening
[07:52:06] <Teltariat> There is no zpool.cache in the Live environment's /etc
[07:52:09] <Teltariat> Since its RO
[07:52:17] <Teltariat> I think I'm in for a nasty surprise on the next boot.
[07:53:42] <bda> Kinda like when you're playing survival horror game in the dark alone after seeing on the news that a mass murderer has escaped from prison a few miles from your house. You totally know a zombie dog is going to come crashing through that window but you still pee yourself when it does.
[07:53:48] * bda sips is beer.
[07:55:10] * Teltariat sits there staring at bda.
[07:55:21] <bda> Ayup.
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[08:05:41] <FireflyST> is nv_73 out yet?
[08:07:27] <Teltariat> Long time ago
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[08:07:35] <Teltariat> I think we're past nv_74
[08:07:49] * bda looks at the topic.
[08:08:04] <Teltariat> I remember some dude this morning saying that 75 is out
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[08:09:45] <FireflyST> any "new for 73" manifest?
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[08:12:52] <FireflyST> also, what's the easiest way to update from 72 to 73?
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[08:19:36] <Teltariat> I have a disk with UFS partitions already scattered throughout it.  I want to blast the VTOC and partition away (to prepare it to be used purely as a zpool).  How does one normally do this?
[08:21:27] <Teltariat> Nevermind, I think I can just format it
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[08:42:54] <Teltariat> Is there a way to get zpool to dump a zpool.cache file somewhere for your use?
[08:52:56] <e^ipi> I wonder how long it'd take to port HFS+ to solaris
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[08:54:49] <e^ipi> XNU is opensource, and under a CDDL compatible license no less
[08:55:02] <e^ipi> architecturally though, it's a bit different
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[09:10:56] <kohju> Hmm.... in.tftpd is mentenance in svcs... someone tell me where I should check?
[09:11:10] <e^ipi> svcs -xv
[09:11:13] <e^ipi> to start
[09:11:39] <e^ipi> somewhere in there it'll give you a place to check, and a logfile
[09:11:42] <e^ipi> then check that logfile
[09:12:12] <kohju> e^ipi: dmesg said "inetd[2741]: [ID 702911 daemon.error] Property 'proto' of instance svc:/network/tftp/udp6:default is missing, inconsistent or invalid"
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[09:13:53] <e^ipi> there you go
[09:15:39] <kohju> the 'proto' is 'udp6'. it is default.
[09:17:18] <kohju> I checked 'svcprop svc:/network/tftp/udp6:default | grep proto'. the result was 'inetd/proto astring udp6'....
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[09:26:41] <e^ipi> did you read the log files that svcs -xv gave you?
[09:26:54] <e^ipi> or did you ignore what I said and started poking around in dmesg for no reason
[09:27:47] <kohju> svcs -xv said "Reason: Restarter svc:/network/inetd:default gave no explanation."
[09:28:35] <e^ipi> and then you checked the log file, right?
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[09:30:14] <kohju> but ''svcs -xv' does not say "log file"
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[09:31:22] <kohju> 'svcs -xv' gave me ''See: http://sun.com/msg/SMF-8000-9C''
[09:32:20] <e^ipi> usually somewhere in there it points you to some logfile in /var as well
[09:33:27] <kohju> I think so, too. I checkd "/var/svc/log/network-inetd:default.log". but no response.
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[09:37:52] <kohju> oh.., the OS of the server has problem is Solaris10u4. other server I installed opensolaris SXCE70 can launch tftpd same way.
[09:50:04] <e^ipi> interesting... make made it past my code without puking on a warning
[09:50:20] <e^ipi> this is a good sign
[09:51:09] <e^ipi> I wonder if this behavior can be replicated
[09:53:43] <kohju> I find it.
[09:53:54] <kohju> Thanks,e^ipi.
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[09:54:16] <kohju> This case is as same as "http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5073973&messageID=9269812"
[09:55:43] <kohju> The "protocol" and "services" entry in nsswitch.conf on this server is corrupted ( based on nsswitch.nis ).
[09:56:45] <kohju> My NIS does not export "protocols" and "services".
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[10:13:03] <Teltariat> How would one create the /dev and /devices directory from scratch for Solaris 10?
[10:14:04] <jmcp> Teltariat: why do you think you need to do that?
[10:14:31] <Teltariat> I'm working on trying to boot from ZFS.  But I clobbered the /dev and /devices from my old UFS installation
[10:14:37] <jmcp> oh
[10:14:40] <jmcp> that was kinda silly :)
[10:14:40] <Teltariat> All my files and dirs are in place
[10:14:45] <Teltariat> A mistake
[10:14:55] <jmcp> try a "-r" option to the kernel$ line in grub
[10:14:56] <Teltariat> I thought I had all my kit
[10:14:59] <jmcp> that's to force a reconfigure boot
[10:15:12] <jmcp> you'd probably want to run that with a -v as well
[10:15:17] <jmcp> so your kernel$ line would end with      -rc
[10:15:20] <jmcp> sorry,      -rv
[10:15:41] <Teltariat> So the kernel itself knows how to automatically make /dev and /devices?  Thats really cool
[10:16:14] <jmcp> yues
[10:16:16] <jmcp> yeah
[10:16:45] <jmcp> the links in /dev are (re)generated when you do a reconfigure boot, or run "devfsadm"
[10:17:02] <jmcp> and /devices is the pseudo-fs which represents the kernel's idea of your system device tree
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[10:17:28] <e^ipi> damn I wish I had another x86 box that wasn't currently assigned to other, critical tasks
[10:18:04] <Teltariat> I'm in the installation DVD's rescue shell.  Can't I just run devfsadm from here?
[10:18:05] <Teltariat> Or no?
[10:18:12] <e^ipi> ZFS root would really come in handy considering I intend to break libc in fabulous ways in a week or two
[10:18:13] <Teltariat> Can devfsadm do it?
[10:18:33] <Teltariat> This is my first time doing ZFS  root, and I don't even know if it'll work
[10:18:39] <Teltariat> I hope it does.
[10:18:53] <jmcp> Teltariat: is your rootpool imported and mounted>?
[10:19:01] <Teltariat> Yessir
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[10:19:40] <jmcp> ok, then try     devfsadm -v -r /path/to/rootpool
[10:20:00] <jmcp> the -v is for verbose, you don't normally need it but you probably want it this time around to see what's going on
[10:20:13] <Teltariat> I was just reading the man page on that, and was just about to ask whether that made sense or not. :D
[10:20:22] <jmcp> right
[10:23:01] <Teltariat> Uhm, it made /dev and /devices, though it did spew a lot of stuff about mismatched devices.  I imagine some of the special stuff uses in a DVD environment might have gotten set within my native system's /dev now.  Like maybe ramdisk stuff.  Man, I have no idea.
[10:23:15] <Teltariat> I suppose I'll see when it blows up on the next boot.
[10:24:06] <Teltariat> In the event of my passing, I humbly ask you folks to have my epitaph read, "I tried."
[10:24:36] <jmcp> "He gave it a damn good try"
[10:24:43] <jmcp> "then it whacked him back"
[10:24:44] <jmcp> :)
[10:25:17] <Teltariat> :)
[10:25:19] <Teltariat> Bugger
[10:25:30] <Teltariat> I made the zpool, but I forgot to make a swap partition
[10:25:41] <Teltariat> I shoulda sliced the disk instead of making the zpool the entire disk
[10:25:44] <jmcp> ah
[10:25:45] <jmcp> yes :)
[10:25:50] <Teltariat> so i had at least one swap slice and one zpool slice
[10:25:53] <Teltariat> crap.
[10:26:10] <Teltariat> after all thats already done, too.
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[10:26:16] <Teltariat> :(
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[10:27:05] <cmihai> :D
[10:27:08] <Teltariat> :(
[10:27:25] <cmihai> Well, you're no fun
[10:27:50] * Teltariat has to rescind all the crap hes done so far for zfs root.  That would get anyone down.
[10:28:03] <Teltariat> All because I forgot to put in a swap partition.
[10:28:22] <jmcp> do you have another disk?
[10:28:23] <Teltariat> Maybe I can just pull a stupid one and trying to use a ZFS dataset as swap? :D (???)
[10:28:57] <cmihai> You can use a swap file...
[10:29:06] <Teltariat> This 1U machine takes 2 disks; I have one now, and I'm intending on mirroring with the next one.  So what I do here, has to be done just on this disk.  Cause the next disk is just going to copy everything there
[10:29:09] <cmihai> mkfile 2048m /swapfile
[10:29:23] <cmihai> swap -a /swapfile
[10:29:26] <Teltariat> But the performance on swap files is straight atrocious, isn't it
[10:29:27] <cmihai> swap -l
[10:29:32] <cmihai> Teltariat, not really
[10:29:41] <cmihai> With modern UNIX systems, it's hardly an issue.
[10:29:50] <Teltariat> bugger all.  I'll just redo it all
[10:29:55] <cmihai> Though you won't be able to take a memory dump to it
[10:30:06] <cmihai> Since.. you can't write to a FS when your system is panicked. It's not safe :-)
[10:30:22] <Teltariat> Solaris swap is usually supposed to twice the size of memory, right?
[10:30:29] <cmihai> again, not really.
[10:31:08] <jmcp> Teltariat: imagine if you had a fully stocked SF25k, 128 cores and 1Tb of ram. Do you reckon you'd really want to configure 2Tb as swap?
[10:31:09] <cmihai> There used to be limits... because the memory mapper pre allocated the same space it did in memory in swap when it allocated memory for a process
[10:31:12] <jmcp> :)
[10:31:24] <Teltariat> jcmp: with that much RAM, do you need swap anymore? :D
[10:31:25] <cmihai> But that is ancient stuff.
[10:31:42] <jmcp> Teltariat: some people do, actually
[10:31:43] <cmihai> The only reason you'd need so much swap is to take a full memory dump... And again, memory dumps are compressed.
[10:31:52] <Teltariat> cmihai: really? That sounds really non-performant
[10:32:00] <cmihai> What
[10:32:14] <Teltariat> non-performant concerning allocating swap space when allocating memory
[10:32:25] <cmihai> That's why they've stopped doing it 20 years ago
[10:32:32] <Teltariat> haha
[10:33:04] <Teltariat> I'm going to just try it without the swap
[10:33:09] <Teltariat> to see if it can boot
[10:33:12] <Teltariat> from the rootpool
[10:33:31] <cmihai> Just do what I've said.\
[10:33:32] <Teltariat> I imagine that Solaris won't really spazz due to lack of swap...
[10:33:55] <Teltariat> cmihai: You make an excellent suggestion, but I'm willing to do it all over again just to give swap its own slice
[10:34:12] <cmihai> You do realize you can repartition without having to reinstall?
[10:34:31] <cmihai> Or, wost case scenario, ufsdump / repartition / restore
[10:34:47] <Teltariat> I never did understand how zpools were represented on disk aside from Sun partitions
[10:34:52] <Teltariat> The disk right now has no partitions
[10:34:53] <jmcp> cmihai: ufsdump from a zfs? I don't really think so :)
[10:35:10] <cmihai> jmcp, ehem, not for the ZFS :-)
[10:35:12] <Teltariat> Only thing on this disk now is a zpool
[10:35:14] <jmcp> Teltariat: if you gave zfs the whole disk, then it'll be using the "EFI" label type
[10:35:20] <Teltariat> really
[10:35:27] <Teltariat> well how come fdisk doesn't say so?
[10:36:05] <Teltariat> fdisk sees nothing
[10:36:10] <jmcp> fdisk looks at a different aspect of the disk labelling
[10:36:12] * Teltariat shrugs, puzzled
[10:36:18] <Teltariat> Ah, ok
[10:36:19] <jmcp>  /usr/sbin/format will show you the slices
[10:36:26] <Teltariat> ah, yes
[10:36:27] <jmcp> we tend to use slice and partition interchangeably
[10:36:30] <Teltariat> I did use that briefly
[10:36:33] <jmcp> cos we're lazy :)
[10:36:45] <cmihai> The only reason swap files would be faster now is the lack of a filesystem overhead. People usually thought a swap parition was contiguous, but that's actually false...
[10:37:02] <Teltariat> format isn't helping either
[10:37:22] <Teltariat> cmihai: I really don't feel comfortable using a file for swap no matter what OS I'm in
[10:37:29] <cmihai> Disks remap physical sectors on the fly now, so a swap file may actually be faster
[10:37:34] <cmihai> Teltariat, ever used Windows?
[10:37:49] <Teltariat> cmihai: got me there. :|
[10:38:19] <bda> Teltariat: format's fdisk option shows 'EFI'.
[10:38:31] <Teltariat> I want to run Zones and all that stuff on this machine.  So I want to do whatever is better
[10:38:41] <e^ipi> feh, people think it's hard to give up windows
[10:38:58] <e^ipi> I haven't used the thing since pets.com went offline
[10:39:03] <cmihai> e^ipi, of course, Windows has it's ususes, and it does those very well.
[10:39:10] <bda> Gaming?
[10:39:22] <e^ipi> bda: that's why I own a DS
[10:39:24] <cmihai> CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM, productivity, etc.
[10:39:25] <Teltariat> I use Windows only for gaming.  These days, my everyday machine is a Mac.
[10:39:38] <bda> e^ipi: Can't play the new Sam 'n Max on a DS. :)
[10:39:56] <cmihai> Besides, not using Windows just cause it's Microsoft is silly.
[10:40:00] <Teltariat> I can't Hitman: Contracts, and Hitman: Silent Assassin on a Mac.
[10:40:06] <e^ipi> no, but i can play quake3 on my sparc, and FPS's haven't really changed since then
[10:40:09] <Teltariat> Well, on this Mac, at least.
[10:40:15] <bda> e^ipi: Played HL2? :)
[10:40:26] <Teltariat> Hitman ftw!
[10:40:48] <e^ipi> doesn't hitman run on ps2?
[10:40:56] <e^ipi> bda: I haven't, actually
[10:41:07] <bda> e^ipi: Half Life is good stuff.
[10:42:14] <bda> I don't have time to game much anymore. I've had Okami sitting around forever, and now Persona 3 (which looks crazy) is in the dust queue.
[10:42:25] <Teltariat> e^ipi: Yes, Hitman: Blood Money does I think.  And so does Hitman: Contracts
[10:42:58] <Teltariat> So format: fdisk says "Current Disk Type Is Not Set"
[10:43:12] <Teltariat> No one knows whats going on with my c0d0. :(
[10:43:27] <Teltariat> Only zpool's magical fairies can see whats on that disk.
[10:43:53] <Teltariat> So I'm really questioning whether or not this baby'll boot
[10:44:03] <bda> They prefer the term Wee Irish-Americans, actually.
[10:44:20] <Teltariat> Oh, my humblest apologies.
[10:44:31] <cmihai> Teltariat, another idea.. why don't you create a swap zvol?
[10:44:45] <Teltariat> That was the first thing that occurred to me
[10:44:56] <Teltariat> zvols are the same thing you get when you do a "zfs create", or no?
[10:45:08] <Teltariat> Sounds like a separate volume in a zpool
[10:45:13] <bda> cmihai: Who blogged about keeping swap on their zpool...? They had a fs hier like pool/fs/<zfs>, pool/swap...
[10:45:18] <bda> Recent. Can't remember.
[10:45:50] <e^ipi> I've done that
[10:46:05] <Teltariat> Well I think its what makes the most sense to do now
[10:46:06] <cmihai> zfs create -s -V 2GB storage/p0rn
[10:46:07] <cmihai> erm
[10:46:08] <Teltariat> So here goes
[10:46:09] <cmihai> swap
[10:46:10] <Teltariat> lol, cmihai
[10:46:20] <Teltariat> 2GB of pr0n? ppffffft.
[10:46:27] <bda> My initial reaction was "err?" but yeah, end-to-end swap.
[10:46:29] <e^ipi> http://blogs.sun.com/scottdickson/entry/fun_with_zvols_-_swap
[10:46:57] <bda> Naw, that wasn't the post. But, same idea.
[10:46:59] <cmihai> Yes, well, you can use swap with anything really.
[10:47:26] <e^ipi> swap to tape
[10:47:38] <e^ipi> performance is for chumps
[10:47:39] <cmihai> heh
[10:47:41] <Teltariat> sounds tortuous
[10:48:02] <cmihai> swap to printer ;P
[10:48:13] * Teltariat 's milk flies out his nose
[10:48:47] <cmihai> swapon -a /dev/ecpp0
[10:48:48] <cmihai> :D
[10:49:31] <cmihai> Actually, if the printer has enough memory and supports PCL6, that may work.. with some hacking :D
[10:49:38] <Teltariat> you're fscking crazy
[10:49:51] <cmihai> Hm... this would be good for a project...
[10:50:01] <bda> bah... swap to TCP.
[10:50:04] * cmihai adds it to the todo list ;-)
[10:50:11] <Teltariat> I imagine your contribution to the OpenSolaris committers would be looked at with some raised eyebrows
[10:50:18] <cmihai> Well, you can already swap to iSCSI
[10:50:39] <Teltariat> So iSCSI over fragging PPP tunnels on 14K dialup modems?
[10:50:44] <cmihai> http://xkcd.com/ - my goal: making the world a weirder place ;-)
[10:50:53] <Teltariat> XKCD is the win
[10:50:58] <Teltariat> sometims
[10:51:04] <cmihai> Teltariat, no, over ICMP tunnels tunneled via DNS requests
[10:51:19] <Teltariat> I surrender
[10:51:38] <e^ipi> swap via iscsi via RFC2549
[10:51:52] <Teltariat> Bah, I have the ultimate one
[10:52:01] <Teltariat> SWAP via carrier pigeon
[10:52:04] <cmihai> e^ipi, is that pigeos with QoS?
[10:52:11] <Teltariat> :D
[10:52:16] <Teltariat> Or that tapes in the station wagon
[10:52:16] <e^ipi> Teltariat: thats what RFC2549 is
[10:52:22] <Teltariat> ooh, nice
[10:52:29] <cmihai> e^ipi, heh, yeah :P
[10:52:34] <Teltariat> Great minds think alike.  Or is that stupid is as stupid does?
[10:52:41] <cmihai> Sick minds think alike
[10:52:49] <Teltariat> Ok, back to my zfs root mess
[10:52:56] <cmihai> Teltariat, odd. I wanted to say great too, but it took me longer to change it to sick ;-\
[10:53:02] <Teltariat> Mess is about the only proper word to describe it
[10:53:09] <Teltariat> :) cmihai
[10:53:12] <cmihai> OK, you guys need to seriously get out of my telepatic connection line!
[10:53:38] <Teltariat> I'll be back later; gonna finish this up and try to boot it
[10:53:41] <Teltariat> thanks for your help, all
[10:53:44] <Teltariat> be back in a bit
[10:53:59] <cmihai> Yeah, well, good luck with that..
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[10:55:58] <Teltariat> and its already going sour. :)
[10:56:12] <e^ipi> increase the brewing temperature
[10:56:19] <Teltariat> Shows how well I follow instructions.  I made the entire thing ZFS; turns out you had to have a UFS partition somewhere
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[10:56:49] <cmihai> The what now
[10:56:50] <Teltariat> Maybe because of GRUB?
[10:57:02] <e^ipi> Tempt would've understood the joke...
[10:57:17] <Teltariat> I mean UFS slice
[10:57:18] <Teltariat> sorry
[10:57:20] <Teltariat> :)
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[10:58:35] <cmihai> Teltariat, how about you try to explain that a little better.
[10:58:45] <cmihai> Are you tring to say you've used ZFS root or what
[10:59:20] <Teltariat> I am following the instructions on OpenSolaris.org for ZFS boot.  I made the entire disk a zpool, with no Solaris partitions (and thus no slices) anywhere
[11:00:18] <Teltariat> I was thinking that I didn't need any, but towards the end of the page, I was seeing mention of adding the UFS slice to the vfstab, and was wondering whether or not it was actually necessary for boot, perhaps because of GRUB
[11:00:23] <Teltariat> but I don't think its needed
[11:01:03] <e^ipi> not anymore it's not
[11:01:06] <Teltariat> One of the directions mentions running "zpool set".   The only utility that accepts set as a param is "zfs".  I'm wondering if that should read "zfs set" instead.
[11:01:15] <e^ipi> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs/boot/zfsboot-manual/
[11:01:22] <Teltariat> Thats the one I'm using
[11:01:28] <e^ipi> okay
[11:01:31] <cmihai> Why do you hate yourself?
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[11:02:04] <Teltariat> Because I'm noobpoop and I suck at everything.
[11:02:23] <cmihai> Mkey.
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[11:04:27] <Teltariat> So this command: "zpool set bootfs=rootpool/rootfs rootpool"
[11:04:30] <Teltariat> Is no good.
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[11:04:58] <Teltariat> I'm guessing it isn't needed anymore?
[11:07:02] <Teltariat> Now I'm back to the same issue I had earlier: in this rescue environment, / is read-only.  So I don't have a zpool.cache to upgrade the boot archive with.
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[11:12:44] <Teltariat> nevermind, solved
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[11:41:54] <morteng> mkisofs -o /tmp/cd.iso -R -J   exits with  mkisofs: Joliet tree sort failed.  I run SunOS solaris-devx 5.11 snv_64a i86pc i386 i86pc.
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[11:53:12] <morteng> hekko users, please help, is this a known problem mkisofs: Joliet tree sort failed.
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[12:00:23] <Teltariat> I would help you if I knew how to fix the problem.
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[12:04:29] <morteng> Thank you,   I am reading the opensolaris docs and trying to remember where I read that some Win2k files with very long and odd extensions can not be burned to a DVD, because open solaris lacks support of joliet, still IIRC.  cdrecord is no problem, mkisofs  -R -J   is a problem.
[12:07:27] <cmihai> Don't use cdrecord, use cdrw.
[12:07:58] <quasi> I use growisofs for dvds
[12:08:06] <cmihai> cdrw for DVDs also.
[12:08:24] <cmihai> cdrecord and growisofs are 3rd party tools. cdrw is part of Solaris.
[12:09:30] <morteng> interesting,  I have some more details ready for pastebin,  one moment
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[12:12:51] <morteng> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/727743  triggers the problem during mkisofs invokation.
[12:14:02] <cmihai> Just rename those files...
[12:14:20] <cmihai> Or delete them.. looks useless
[12:16:28] <cmihai> Though, in most cases, you could just use rock ridge and that's that
[12:18:49] <JWheeler> rock \m/ !!
[12:18:51] <JWheeler> oh, sorry.
[12:19:00] * JWheeler turns the music down a little
[12:19:09] <morteng> yes I can firmly confirm that the  -r  option is sufficiently and that I can read back  all files on solaris.  But not on windows.
[12:19:10] <morteng> the books from paetzold are useful,  renaming seems to solve the problem I now have another problem which seems to be
[12:19:10] <morteng> within the file names.
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[13:34:20] <l1s> hey all
[13:34:54] 
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[13:56:35] <morteng> Hi
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[13:59:05] <morteng> I use this to verify my  DVD http://www.g-loaded.eu/2006/10/07/verify-a-burned-cddvd-image-on-linux/   under solaris I use diff -urn /onharddisk  /dvd  Is it a better way?
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[14:02:04] <quasi> going through the tree and calculating digests - but I don't know if that qualifies as better
[14:05:01] <morteng> I use echo $?   and that gives 0 if everything is ok, the drawback is that My DVDReader makes a lot of noise during accessing all files,  is diff   as reliable as md5sum?
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[14:06:20] <l1s> how do i disable pcmcia devices in the installshell?
[14:06:41] <quasi> the advantage of calculating digests if you do it in 2 rounds and do post compare is probably that you could get it to read sequentially rather than seek
[14:07:22] <quasi> another option if you do an iso image is to compare the iso image to the source and to the dvd
[14:08:05] <quasi> just doing a digest of the whole dvd and the iso image file
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[14:10:24] <morteng> ok, interesting.  on the companion CD  I has gmd5sum,  here I have an odd syntax example$ digest -v -a sha1 /usr/lib/inet/*  but it looks  well explained in the example.
[14:11:52] <quasi> digest is the usual way on solaris
[14:12:22] <morteng> Will it be a problem with joliet extension on the DVD, Please?
[14:13:16] <quasi> no idea
[14:14:25] <boyd> If you're comparing the .iso to the result of dd then no, joliet should make no difference
[14:14:39] <morteng> I'll try, thank you for the gentle advice.
[14:16:05] <quasi> once you have a pair of digest -v lists, it should be easy to sort and diff those
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[14:21:10] <morteng> it runs, At least this method does not load the noise generator of my DVD drive, which is what I am looking for.  I don't want diff to destroy my DVD.
[14:22:43] <l1s> how to fix this problem: error: cannot find install software, exiting to shell ??
[14:22:54] <l1s> i try to install b73
[14:23:39] <l1s> google tells nothing that helps me
[14:25:43] <Pietro_S> l1s: did you try another installer? gui (aka new one-caiman)
[14:25:53] <kaiwai> l1s: there is a known cd/dvd drive issue
[14:25:55] <Pietro_S> do you install from dvd or cd?
[14:26:00] <l1s> no, my system owns not enough memory
[14:26:02] <kaiwai> tls: you need to download and use B71
[14:26:05] <l1s> i install from dvd
[14:26:35] <l1s> kaiwai ok i try that... thanks
[14:26:50] <kaiwai> l1s: got that? I had the same problem, the fix will be merged and available in B75
[14:27:07] <kaiwai> the only way to get B73 installed is using a work around using B71 and the graphical installer
[14:27:25] <l1s> ah, there is a ersion b75 out?!?
[14:27:43] <kaiwai> nope, not yet
[14:27:50] <kaiwai> what version are you running right now?
[14:27:57] <l1s> b73
[14:28:09] <l1s> the one witch is posted on the download site from opensolaris.org
[14:28:19] <kaiwai> ok, hang on, I'll get you the link for B71
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[14:28:26] <l1s> no
[14:28:32] <l1s> i find it on my own :D thanks anyway
[14:29:09] <kaiwai> http://javashoplm.sun.com/ECom/docs/Welcome.jsp?StoreId=7&PartDetailId=Sol-Express_b73-x86-SP-G-B&TransactionId=try
[14:29:22] <l1s> ok, thanks
[14:29:29] <kaiwai> ther eis no direct link
[14:29:32] <kaiwai> hence the reason I provided it
[14:30:09] <l1s> hm, that link you posted shows version b73
[14:30:14] <l1s> sol-nv-b73-sparc-v1-iso
[14:32:31] <JWheeler> kaiwai, you're our resident ipod specialist :) I'm building a new amarok for BW now. What's the status of solaris+libgpod? I'd like to include it if I can
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[14:33:22] <kaiwai> JWheeler: its rather dodgy; 0.4.2 is the only one that seems to work with gtkpod
[14:33:30] <kaiwai> I wouldn't know about amarok though
[14:34:00] <JWheeler> Ok, I'll try and get it compiled. Amarok just links to it
[14:35:17] <kaiwai> sorry, here it is: http://javashoplm.sun.com/ECom/docs/Welcome.jsp?StoreId=7&PartDetailId=Sol-Express_b71-DVD-x86-SP-G-B&TransactionId=try
[14:35:24] <kaiwai> thats the dvd build of b71
[14:35:48] <kaiwai> JWheeler: I'd say 0.4.2, just remember to apply the patches of pkgbuild.sf.net
[14:36:07] <JWheeler> ah, thanks for the tip
[14:36:37] <kaiwai> brb
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[14:40:09] <kaiwai> hmm, got Rhythmbox working :)
[14:40:39] <kaiwai> I think sun should throw in the towel with their compiler given how it seems everything falls to pieces when using it
[14:41:16] <kjetilho> bah, you can't blame Sun's compiler for poorly written code
[14:41:34] <kjetilho> in any case, many GNUC extensions are supported in Studio 12
[14:41:37] <kaiwai> kjetilho: I do blame them for shipping buggy code :)
[14:41:51] <kjetilho> what do you have in mind?
[14:41:58] <jmcp> kaiwai: Sun's compilers are just about the best available
[14:42:27] <jmcp> "but it works with gcc" is NOT sufficient to damn Sun's compilers to heck for refusing to accept GNU extensions to C standards
[14:42:30] * jmcp growls
[14:42:41] <kaiwai> jmcp: Rhythmbox album art crashes when compiled using Studio, and yet, I enable the plugin just then compiled using gcc and all works nicely
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[14:42:55] <kjetilho> kaiwai: so Rhythmbox relies on undefined behaviour
[14:42:58] <jmcp> gee, doesn't that prove my point?
[14:43:03] <kjetilho> it can break in the next GCC version
[14:43:34] <kjetilho> GCC developers do not think twice about breaking bad code, even if it seems like a regression.
[14:43:37] <kaiwai> jmcp: not really, this bug was known when 2.18 was merged, the bug remained for the whole 2.18 cycle and still exists in 2.20
[14:43:38] <jmcp> kaiwai: does it depend on glibc null pointer mapping behaviour?
[14:44:03] <jmcp> actually, I think your comment does prove my point
[14:44:20] <kaiwai> jmcp: 2.18 shouldn't have been merged until those crash related bugs were fixed
[14:44:27] <JWheeler> kaiwai: it looks like pkgbuild is still back on 1.4.0?
[14:44:30] <kaiwai> and now we'll see GNOME 2.20 being merged riddled with bugs
[14:44:54] <JWheeler> 1.4.2 is building fror me without any special tricks
[14:45:03] <kaiwai> JWheeler: I wouldn't know as I manually patch and compile things as I need it rather than rely on the broken build system
[14:45:34] <JWheeler> which system, pkgbuild?
[14:45:37] <Pietro_S> I would say that C is ok, but with C++ there are lot's of problems, because of strange gcc's std library (or incomplete of sun's std library - don't know what is true)
[14:46:00] <kaiwai> the whole *.spec idea; things breking, stuff not being downloaded, dependencies not being resolved etc. etc.
[14:46:03] <kaiwai> its one big bug
[14:46:36] <JWheeler> I've not used it myself... I don't know that I will now either! ;)
[14:46:50] <kaiwai> well, you're not missing out on much
[14:48:39] <JWheeler> The BW system (GAR/svn) isn't great either, but it seems a little better at least
[14:48:56] <JWheeler> on the down side, it's not very portable, whereas pkgbuild is
[14:49:11] <kaiwai> jmcp: or worse, features aren't enabled; case in point, pidgin is compiled without dbus support, for example
[14:49:16] <JWheeler> I guess there is no perfect system out there - which is why there are so many {attempts}
[14:50:18] <kaiwai> JWheeler: I'd sooner see GNOME merged later, and working, than merged early and never maintained from that day onwards
[14:50:23] <Pietro_S> any expert about SDL aound? Looks like SFEsdl is *not* compiled with joystick-support ...
[14:50:54] <JWheeler> I was referring to build systems
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[14:51:52] <Pietro_S> does this module works on sxce, or it's just missing there?
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[14:54:28] <kaiwai> oh well, now I've got Pidgin/Rhythmbox all sorted :)
[14:57:25] <kaiwai> ls
[14:57:27] <kaiwai> damn
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[15:08:41] <morteng> I have done as follows  digest -v -a md5 C++/* > /tmp/digest_from_HDD.txt  digest -v -a md5 C++/* > /tmp/digest_from_CDROM.txt  some  directories display to be different on HDD and on CDROM.  Please how can I instruct  digest only to take the files and skip the directories.
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[15:12:48] <morteng> the result is already sorted,  but some files are equal and  after what I can see some (directories)  display different md5sums.
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[15:25:23] <quasi> morteng: ehrm, you could find /path -type f -exec digest -v -a md5 {} \;
[15:26:27] <PerterB> xargs ftw
[15:29:21] <quasi> morteng: ehrm, you could find /path -type f -exec digest -v -a md5 {} \+
[15:29:47] <quasi> \+ will make it faster than \;
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[15:33:37] <PerterB> I'd still prefer xargs, that way you can chuck a sort in the pipeline to ensure the output from both trees is in the same order, making it easier to diff the output
[15:34:09] <JWheeler> what's the trick for escaping spaces with xargs?
[15:34:56] <JWheeler> I'll try that next time
[15:36:06] <PerterB> oops... find: bad option -print0
[15:38:41] <JWheeler> I had issues with the SUNW last I tried too, as I recall
[15:38:48] <JWheeler> so I fel back to using -exec
[15:39:23] <morteng> Interesting,  I remember I have seen once that find  with -exec terminating in \;   -type f should skip the directories.
[15:39:42] * jamesd debates upgrading his ultra 20 to a dual  core  2.4 ghz opteron... for $170....
[15:40:02] <PerterB> ah, bugs 4758838 and 4758838 bemoan the missing print0 and xargs -0
[15:40:07] <morteng>  dd  if=/dev/rdsk/c0t0d0s2 | cmp /tmp/cd.iso  -    seems to work also.
[15:42:11] <morteng> and it does not load my DVD drive, which makes diff -r  useless for anything, exept making ugly noises.
[15:42:25] <quasi> morteng: -type f is specifying file like you could -type d for dirs
[15:43:50] <morteng> thanxs  will try that,  cmp is running and I cannot interrupt.
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[15:46:05] <d4tux> hmm
[15:46:36] <ShanghaiScott> For a SCM URL like svn+ssh://opensolaris.org/svn/website/portal, is there a username/password that provides "anonymous" read access?
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[16:12:51] <gherdo> hi ppl
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[16:13:45] <gherdo> I have SunOS solaris-devx 5.11 snv_73 is this the latest? Should I "upgrade" to opensolaris or wait for b74? I'm just confused O8-)
[16:13:45] <gherdo>
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[16:45:25] * PerterB sniggers
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[17:00:18] <CIA-26> sbehera: 6579256 nxge needs to support 1G Serdes and RGMII modes
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[17:16:30] <flyingparchment> 3com fast etherlink xl pci is supported by the installer, right?
[17:16:55] <flyingparchment> ah, elxl(7d)
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[18:00:14] <CIA-26> stephh: 6479452 fm ereports are not dumped in some cases, 6530678 The error dump queue (eq_dump) may get overwritten when new ereport generated after panic., 6601498 NorthStar 4-port on Solaris 10u4 12b has FMA error
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[18:23:48] <Pietro_S> what is state with gpg on sxce? I can see some SUNW packages providing gpg-errors and ther stuff, but no package provide binary gpg...
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[18:45:49] <Pietro_S> and any ideas how to hunt where is enviroment variable set? (grep didn't help me :-( )
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[18:48:34] <jamesd> which one?
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[18:51:05] <Pietro_S> TERM
[18:52:21] <Pietro_S> it's set on wrong walue somewhere btw. /etc/profile and ~/.bashrc
[18:56:03] <Pietro_S> I really want to hunt where it's set wrong, the workaround to re-set it in .bashrc is nice, but I want to learn ksh93 in near future so then I will have to set it in ksh93 startscript as well ... and I have duplicity
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[19:14:14] <sommerfeld> Pietro_S: TERM is typically set via the login path
[19:14:24] <sommerfeld> based on how your session enters the system
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[19:19:17] <Pietro_S> any files to looks at?
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[19:46:14] <Teltariat> In format, what do the partition "wm", "wu" flags mean?
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[19:57:55] <PerterB> mountable, and not so much
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[19:59:36] <axle_512> I recently built a home file server with snv_72... so far it's working great
[19:59:56] <axle_512> my CPU is an AMD Athalon 4600+
[20:00:15] <axle_512> it has cool n quiet capability... if I enable that in the bios, will it work with solaris?
[20:01:21] <axle_512> I believe cool n quiet also goes by the name powernow
[20:06:10] <e^ipi> $ svcs -a | grep powernow
[20:06:10] <e^ipi> offline    Oct_03   svc:/site/powernow:default
[20:06:17] <e^ipi> looks like it's availiable
[20:06:24] <axle_512> cool
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[20:09:40] <Pietro_S> axle_512: take look at laptop community web pages - http://opensolaris.org/os/community/laptop/
[20:10:03] <axle_512> will do, thanks :)
[20:10:31] <axle_512> one other question... is there a way to get CPU temps?
[20:10:36] <axle_512> I've seen it done with prtdiag on sparc machines
[20:10:44] <axle_512> but prtdiag on x86 doesn't seem to show me the temperatures...
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[20:12:09] <xinkeT> there is a tool called mbmon that might work, depending on your motherboard
[20:12:35] <axle_512> xinkeT: thanks... I'll go read about it.
[20:12:57] <xinkeT> it's a third party thing
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[20:17:22] <Pietro_S> does anyone already played with pkg (image packing system - that one for indiana)? I don't know what they mean with 'workspace proto area' on their documentation pages - http://opensolaris.org/os/project/pkg/devinfo/
[20:21:56] <e^ipi> just the build result directory in your workspace
[20:22:33] <e^ipi> eg, when you make a copy of ON and build it it'll throw itself in to $WS/proto
[20:23:06] <axle_512> xinkeT: I downloaded and installed mbmon... looks like it's working.  thanks.
[20:26:16] <Pietro_S> the question is - does I need whole ON there, only python binaris or whole sxce root ...
[20:34:28] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[20:34:41] <e^ipi> i haven't been paying attention to that project
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[20:37:58] <Silveira_Neto> Where can I find opensolaris DVD torrent files?
[20:38:24] <coffman> axle_512: i would try the frkit, its mostly for laptops but it also works with desktops
[20:38:34] <coffman> axle_512: is that cpu a dual core?
[20:38:47] <axle_512> coffman: yes, it's dual core
[20:39:14] <e^ipi> Silveira_Neto: there's a belenix torrent
[20:39:25] <e^ipi> it's an opensolaris distro
[20:39:32] <e^ipi> there might be a nexenta torrent as well
[20:40:31] <Silveira_Neto> There is a torrent for Solaris Express CE ?
[20:40:51] <e^ipi> no, SXCE contains non-redistributable bits
[20:41:22] <axisys> any storage expert here?
[20:41:29] <axisys> i am getting this error
[20:41:31] <axisys> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/728130
[20:41:48] <axisys> not sure exactly how to proceed
[20:43:05] <Silveira_Neto> ah, Now I understand why SXCE is so hard to download, I can't be distributable easy right? Need to be by those sun links right?
[20:44:26] <jamesd> Silveira_Neto, if you think sxce is hard to download and burn, it may be a good sign that its time to give up, its not the OS for you.
[20:44:50] <e^ipi> login, download, burn... I don't see how that's hard
[20:45:03] <coffman> axle_512: oh dear, then you are out of luck, no speedstep/powernow for dual cores atm
[20:45:19] <Silveira_Neto> I have allready told it to you guts, I have narrow band here.
[20:45:29] <e^ipi> Silveira_Neto: get.opensolaris.org
[20:45:31] <axle_512> coffman: ah, ok.. thanks for the info.
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[20:45:40] <e^ipi> sun'll ship you a set of DVD's
[20:45:47] <e^ipi> or whatever
[20:47:04] <axle_512> he would probably benefit from the slim image stuff in project indiana
[20:48:59] <coffman> axle_512: for amd its even worse, older dual cores will maybe nerver be supportet i think, all bigger/older then 65nm/"brisbane"
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[20:51:10] <axisys> axle_512: that would be 2009 correct? the project indiana that is
[20:51:37] <coffman> axle_512: but install acpidrv from frkit http://opensolaris.org/os/community/laptop/frkit/ that will prevent iostorms from events that the chipset makes for temp stuff
[20:52:04] <axle_512> axisys: sorry, I was referring to silveira when I said was talking about the slim project.
[20:52:14] <axle_512> coffman: thanks, I will try it
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[20:54:56] <e^ipi> I can't wait until the indiana guys are done and released something, so that it can quietly fade in to the ecosystem and i can stop hearing about it on a daily basis
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[21:01:45] <coffman> e^ipi: ill hope they release something so i can start working again on package stuff etc, dont like too do redundant work
[21:02:54] <e^ipi> what redundant work?
[21:03:45] <coffman> e^ipi: fixing the package stuff
[21:04:00] <e^ipi> what's broken about it
[21:04:01] <e^ipi> ?
[21:05:09] <coffman> well, none after all, it needs more "features"
[21:05:20] <coffman> without apt bullshit ofc
[21:05:46] <e^ipi> what's wrong with sysv packages?
[21:05:58] <e^ipi> they do everything you'd expect a package to do
[21:06:39] <coffman> nothing, problem is more the performance how solaris handles it, thats nothing i could fix after all
[21:06:53] <coffman> but i would like to wrap something around
[21:07:38] <e^ipi> I know I for one don't want a network repo with an autoresolver
[21:07:47] <e^ipi> autoresolvers break things
[21:08:10] <coffman> friend of mine did http://freshmeat.net/projects/pmpkg/ , we would like to expand that
[21:08:16] <e^ipi> mostly because dependency resolution is an np-hard problem IIRC so the heuristics involved break things
[21:08:52] <coffman> e^ipi: yeah, i like to have the choice, soft depends etc, sourcebased and binary, that would be nice
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[21:12:13] <e^ipi> although, mind you...
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[21:12:43] <e^ipi> what if a graphical representation was presented to the user of the dependency tree with all options availiable
[21:12:55] <e^ipi> the autoresolver draws connections between packages
[21:13:06] <e^ipi> user can redraw them
[21:13:20] <coffman> but after all, im back to windows on my desktop for now (X and gtk sucks big time) and there is still no dual core stepping support..
[21:13:25] <e^ipi> like a logic-gate representation of a boolean equation sortof
[21:13:27] <Beket_netcafe> Hello people. I would like to know how stable ZFS is when it comes to production environments. Thanks
[21:13:30] <coffman> e^ipi: that would be nice
[21:13:46] <e^ipi> i think I might just write that in Qt when I've got some time
[21:13:58] <kjetilho> Beket_netcafe: I trust it more than VxFS
[21:14:10] <coffman> e^ipi: i would go by, binary with hard depends and src based if you like to edit depends
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[21:16:09] <e^ipi> still doesn't solve the problem that developers can never replicate your environment to try'n find bugs
[21:17:09] <e^ipi> so a certain combination of packages might cause some issue and noone'd ever know it
[21:17:24] <Beket_netcafe> thank you kjetilho
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[21:19:10] <coffman> well, if i go by source, thats my shit then, also it would be nice to have binarys with various options for depends, like max,med and core function or so
[21:20:18] <jamesd> any thoughts on  replacing the stock  2.6 ghz opteron cpu in a  ultra 20 with a   2.4 ghz dual core opteron, do i need to  upgrade the cpu fan or is the stock one good enough?  no over clocking...
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[21:21:40] <coffman> jamesd: it might be the right time to get something more quiet
[21:22:12] <coffman> from the termal design, it should be okay to use the old fan
[21:22:22] <jamesd> coffman, i don't mind the noise....  but any recomendations?  i like the stock system that has like a chimney arrangement
[21:23:22] <jamesd> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819103582
[21:23:34] <sommerfeld> as a sanity check i'd compare the power rating of the two cpus.  power in == heat out
[21:24:22] <sfire||mouse> Beket_netcafe: they sell thumpers with it, production Solaris
[21:25:05] <coffman> jamesd: why not buy a "normal" amd 64?
[21:25:18] <sommerfeld> Beket_netcafe: as with anything else you deploy into a production environment you'll want to practice on a test system first.
[21:25:29] <jamesd> only the opteron cpus fully support the ECC ram i have read
[21:25:33] <jamesd> coffman ^^
[21:25:36] <coffman> kay
[21:25:56] <coffman> jamesd: well, you buy boxed anyways or?
[21:26:06] <coffman> so you are on the save side
[21:26:13] <sfire||mouse> Beket_netcafe: default from Sun, full speced thumper 48 500 GB drives, leaves you with just over 17 TB space in the zpool
[21:26:15] <jamesd> and i have 2GB of it.. and  next large purchase will be another 2GB  to bring it to 4GB
[21:26:37] <coffman> just test it, it will not burn anyways, so i would compare the temp and decide
[21:26:47] <jamesd> coffman, yeah i'm buying that one...  i think it comes with the fan.
[21:26:54] <coffman> it does
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[21:27:43] <coffman> the amds shutdown way before they burn these days :P
[21:28:21] <jamesd> cool..
[21:28:38] <jamesd> the  2.6 ghz dual core version isn't worth $50 extra is it?
[21:28:57] <coffman> same cache?
[21:29:12] <jamesd> yeah
[21:29:22] <coffman> nah
[21:29:46] <jamesd> 128k l1  each core and  1mb l2 per core...
[21:30:05] <jamesd> i think the 152 cpu comes with 1Mb l2 cache for the 1 core.
[21:33:13] <coffman> cache is expensive, mostly only big if you dont care about or if your cpu design sucks (like intel)
[21:34:23] <jamesd> yeah i know how much cache effects stuff...  my u2  feels a lot faster than a u5...   thanks to its 2MB of cache.
[21:34:30] <jamesd> or even a  blade150\
[21:36:48] <coffman> hell yeah, u10 against u60/80
[21:37:10] <coffman> but they mostly suck cause of the dma less ide
[21:38:00] <jamesd> even the 650mhz with dual  80GB ide mirrored, sucks compared to desktop feel to my u2 2x300mhz
[21:39:19] <coffman> 0o
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[21:42:27] <jamesd> coffman, do the boxed opterons come with a thermal pad?
[21:43:49] <e^ipi> the pink crap you have to scrape off and replace with some arcticsilver or the likes?
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[21:44:37] <jamesd> should i just use artic grease, i'm not going to replace the cpu again for a long time... the 939 cpu family is EOL from amd
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[23:27:57] <coffman> jamesd: boxed ones got a thermal pad
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[23:54:49] <jamesd> coffman, thanks... should i use it?
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