[00:01:26] <sleepcat> e^ipi: should i abandon cups?  and follow the lpr instructions?
[00:01:42] <bengtf_> That place doesnt list my printer but it is recognised by build 63, so just try out the build 73 anyway sleepcat
[00:02:15] <sleepcat> i will, sxce looks cooler than u4 anyway
[00:02:54] <sleepcat> solaris has an issue with my nvidia card, there is a way to unselect certain packages in sxce?
[00:03:10] <sleepcat> during the install
[00:03:31] <e^ipi> yeah, but it doesn't update the dependencies
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[00:03:48] <e^ipi> unless you throw it in to SXDE mode where you get the new retarded installer
[00:04:09] <sleepcat> why is the new installer retarded?
[00:04:29] <e^ipi> it doesn't let you do anything... like not have a tiny / and gigantic /export/home
[00:04:34] <bengtf_> i couldnt configure my disk with that
[00:04:56] <jbk> evening
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[00:05:01] <e^ipi> if you use anything other than solaris and windows, you won't any longer because it'll blast the partitions away
[00:05:10] <sleepcat> who designed that !?
[00:05:15] <e^ipi> some idiot
[00:05:26] <sleepcat> that's dangerous
[00:05:49] <sleepcat> although it might be brilliant in cooking linux partitions.....
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[00:22:31] <dmick> hey...anyone got inclination to tackle an hg question?
[00:23:28] <bigjohnto> hg?
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[00:23:40] <bigjohnto> lol, i guess i am not the one :)
[00:23:46] <bigjohnto> but ask anyways if anyone knows they will answer
[00:24:05] <dmick>  is there a way to undo hg tag?  the online docs seem to imply that there's a --remove, but the latest version is one more than what I have, and mine appears not to have it...is it really possible that you could add but not delete a tag before 0.9.4?
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[00:25:18] <dmick> or maybe as kupfer points out I could ask in #mercurial
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[00:29:16] <sleepcat> e^ipi: why does solaris by default have a tiny / partition?
[00:29:25] <jmcp_> history
[00:29:47] <sleepcat> it seems insane what solaris picks as the default
[00:32:26] <stevel> dmick: you can remove it from the .hgtags file
[00:32:31] <jmcp_> sleepcat: btw, which build have you installed?
[00:32:42] <sleepcat> i have solaris 10 u4
[00:32:47] <stevel> a "hg tag" operation is really just a commit that updates the ".hgtags" file in your reporoot
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[00:33:20] <sleepcat> but i'm thinking of moving to sxce to see if my hp deskjet 3930 is supported in 73
[00:33:54] <sleepcat> CUPS for some reason in u4 would ask me over and over again for my password in the web admin section.
[00:34:05] <sleepcat> the cups from blastwave.org
[00:34:24] <jmcp_> sleepcat: that default slice sizes are different in SXDE 0907, as is the installer
[00:34:46] <jmcp_> sleepcat: next time you see dclarke online in here, hassle him - he is Mr Blastwave
[00:34:54] <sleepcat> i will
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[00:35:19] <sleepcat> when i upgrade i just need to make sure i remove the nvidia packages...
[00:35:34] <sleepcat> hopefully in the sxce it is still possible
[00:35:51] <dmick> stevel: well, yeah, but what about if it's the only thing in the .hgtags file
[00:36:04] <stevel> dmick: then delete it (the line), or just remove the file entirely
[00:36:21] <stevel> hg rm .hgtags && hg commit -m "bye bye tags"
[00:36:28] <stevel> or something to that effect
[00:36:37] <dmick> won't that leave me with two dead revisions?
[00:36:51] <stevel> what do you mean by "dead revisions"?
[00:37:15] <dmick> I'll be back to changeset n-2 with no change to the repository, but with log entries for 2 changes
[00:37:18] <dmick> (do and undo)
[00:37:20] <dmick> maybe there's no other way
[00:37:48] <stevel> you'll have a changeset with a comment that says "Added tag foo to changeset 12345ABC" which will be "stale" in the sense that it's an old changeset which is no longer valid
[00:38:28] <stevel> but that's okay
[00:38:47] <stevel> if you updated your repo back to a changeset prior in time to your "bye bye tags" changeset, that tag 'foo' would still exist
[00:39:02] <stevel> it just doesn't exist at that "bye bye tags" changeset (or past it, unless you re-tag it later)
[00:39:11] <stevel> does that make sense?
[00:39:16] <stevel> (sorry, i may not be explaining it clearly)
[00:41:57] <dmick> basically, I want to take back a bad tag.
[00:42:10] <dmick> it seems as though I can't without leaving crap in the repository history.
[00:42:15] <dmick> that may be the case.  I'm just trying to make sure of it.
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[00:42:28] <stevel> yes, that's the case
[00:42:40] <stevel> unless it's the most recent changeset
[00:42:41] <stevel> (tip)
[00:42:44] <stevel> in which case you can rollback it
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[00:43:29] <dmick> rollback.
[00:43:49] <stevel> `hg rollback`
[00:44:04] <stevel> followed by a `hg revert` to update your working copy so its clean
[00:46:53] <dmick> worked.  that was the answer
[00:47:07] <stevel> cool
[00:50:07] <sommerfeld> hmm.  do the cdm extensions deal with the tags file at all?
[00:50:19] <stevel> nope
[00:58:15] <jmcp_> jbk: I hit 'submit' on the rti for your libdisasm changes
[00:58:55] <jbk> woo!
[00:59:28] <jmcp_> now we wait for Eric's response
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[01:56:56] <jbk> jmcp_: you there?
[01:57:10] <wesolows> did you test kmdb?
[01:57:57] <jmcp_> yes
[01:57:58] <jmcp_> and yes
[01:58:04] <wesolows> yes, you tested kmdb?
[01:58:06] <jmcp_> jbk: can you run those tests quickly?
[01:58:08] <jmcp_> wesolows: yes
[01:58:12] <wesolows> ok
[01:58:28] <wesolows> you've seen the mail, then, nm
[01:58:33] <jmcp_> but I don't know how complete my testing was - I tested disassembly of a few functions, but I didn't step through all of them
[01:59:07] <wesolows> I was just passing along the question I overheard, to save you guys a few minutes
[01:59:15] <jbk> heh well how long you think it'll take to build ON on this:
[01:59:20] <jbk> System Configuration:  Sun Microsystems  sun4u Netra t1 (UltraSPARC-IIi 360MHz)
[01:59:21] <jmcp_> wesolows: thanks, I appreciate it
[01:59:24] <jbk> System clock frequency: 90 MHz
[01:59:25] <jbk> Memory size: 768 Megabytes
[01:59:30] <wesolows> 90 MHz?!
[01:59:36] <wesolows> oh, system clock
[01:59:36] <jmcp_> jbk: I'd be expecting 36 hours
[01:59:41] <jbk> you take what you can get :)
[01:59:48] <jmcp_> jbk: or perhaps even longer
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[02:00:10] <wesolows> yeah probably
[02:00:15] <jbk> the one thing though that might warrant discussion is 'fails in an identical manner' bits..
[02:00:25] <jmcp_> "we haven't broken the brokenness"
[02:00:26] <jmcp_> :)
[02:00:31] <CIA-26> edp: 6572723 zoneadmd should allow lofs mounts on files
[02:00:32] <CIA-26> yc148097: 6612072 Unused function nxge_get_pktbuf_size causes lint warning at compilation time
[02:00:35] <CIA-26> ek110237: PSARC 2007/448 Filebench, 6581098 FileBench should be included in Solaris
[02:00:36] <CIA-26> gjelinek: 6609815 zone_create appears to have a hard limit on number of dataset allowed
[02:01:18] <jbk> i'd argue that without someone spending a _LOT_ of time writing up specifications from the closed bins detailing all the failure modes, that to identically replicate the behavior for invalid instructions might be a rather large undertaking
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[02:01:48] <wesolows> this is a case where I think a reasonable best effort is sufficient, and bugs can be filed later
[02:01:57] <jmcp_> wesolows: does Eric have a convenient piece of binary garbage we could look at?
[02:02:05] <wesolows> not that I know of
[02:02:15] <wesolows> I'm not privy to his response, btw, so I have no context
[02:02:26] <jmcp_> oh
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[02:04:25] <jbk> i guess i can reply and explain the general error handling
[02:04:55] <jbk> see if that's sufficient
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[02:06:58] <paulf> Hello
[02:08:17] <toblun> hello
[02:12:54] <brendang> yay, filebench included in Solaris !!
[02:13:10] <brendang> filebench is cool. I've been using it daily now for about 3 months.
[02:13:55] <brendang> (and I'm using it right now)
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[02:18:43] <paulf> Hmmm...it seems that docs.sun.com is broken again
[02:22:25] <wesolows> when was it not?
[02:22:57] <movement> for a few days.
[02:23:23] <paulf> it's a shame, cause when it's up it has great content
[02:26:03] <jbk> i'd love to know what the issue is
[02:26:09] <jbk> i mean, i'm sure it gets a lot of traffic
[02:26:17] <jbk> but it's largely static content
[02:29:48] <paulf> it seems like it would improve their image if they made it more reliable
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[02:33:08] <jbk> yes
[02:33:17] <jbk> i'd just really like to know what it is
[02:33:39] <paulf> Any Sun people here?  Go kick docs.sun.com :)
[02:33:44] <jbk> cause if it's anything remotely due to servers or server capacity, someone needs to be shot
[02:33:54] <paulf> jbk: no doubt
[02:34:05] <bda> It seems more likely it's application-related. :)
[02:34:10] <jbk> well i don't think any sun people that are in here are in a position to do anything about that (don't work in that area)
[02:34:35] <jbk> heh
[02:34:50] <paulf> they could probably find somebody to kick, who could in turn kick the server ;)
[02:35:50] <wesolows> not really
[02:36:14] <bda> Labyrinthine.
[02:36:17] <wesolows> it annoys us as much as you, with the additional annoyance of being stockholders and employees
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[02:37:06] <wesolows> If Sun were a 200-person startup, yes, it would be like that
[02:37:16] <wesolows> Last I heard we employ 41,000 people
[02:37:52] <dmick> well.  and the server's surely off in a coloc somewhere
[02:37:54] <sommerfeld> the people who actually keep things running are well hidden so they don't spend all their time answering "is it fixed yet?  is it fixed yet? " queries.
[02:38:06] <wesolows> That too.
[02:38:15] <mog> heh
[02:38:28] <wesolows> You, me, the server, and the people responsible for the server are as likely as not in 4 different time zones.
[02:38:31] <dmick> I mean, it needs fixing.  I can't just walk down the hall and do it tho.
[02:38:32] <moazamraja> Full Time Employees: 34,200
[02:38:34] <paulf> :)
[02:38:38] <moazamraja> (more contractors/vendors tho)
[02:38:55] <paulf> I know the feeling...we have groups at the office who don't even use the same ticketing system as everybody else
[02:39:22] <paulf> but you can eventually find somebody who knows somebody on the team :)
[02:39:54] <bda> Playing Seven Degrees at a company as large as Sun sounds like a full-time job.
[02:39:58] <wesolows> Yes, with enough grovelling through orgtool.  But (a) that will annoy them, and (b) by the time you reach someone who can fix the problem, it's been fixed for a week.
[02:40:58] <paulf> I know your pain, I work for a MegaCorp as well
[02:41:14] <wesolows> The real problem isn't that docs.sun.com is broken at a particular moment, it's that the system itself is broken so *often* and is so slow even when it's working.  Those are the kinds of problems that are worth trying to get fixed, but they also take a lot more effort.
[02:41:14] <jbk> as do i :)
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[02:41:56] <jbk> wesolows: that depends somewhat on what's causing the frequent errors
[02:42:09] <jbk> what bugs me is the content is static
[02:42:12] <sommerfeld> they recently said the #1 dissatisfier with our internal support ticket system was the time it took to route the ticket to the person with the clue necessary to fix it.
[02:42:25] <jbk> yeah there's a neat little interactive tree in front
[02:42:41] <jbk> sommerfeld: hahaha ooh i could share some stories on that :)
[02:42:57] <sommerfeld> they claim they're now Doing Something about it.
[02:43:09] <paulf> sommerfeld: hah, that must be universal in big companies :)
[02:43:14] <BadKarma> sommerfeld: plus that GRC dont speak proper english
[02:43:17] <wesolows> sommerfeld: That's probably right, but I think that conclusion might be reached the wrong way - usually the problem is that the person who is _supposed_ to be assigned your ticket does in fact get it quickly but is too clueless to resolve it.  That is, the level 1 support people are too generally clueless.
[02:43:31] <BadKarma> well I mean their engineers
[02:43:32] <jbk> but serving static content should be one of the easier problems to solve
[02:43:42] <wesolows> BadKarma: "engineers"
[02:43:56] <wesolows> Surely you're not using that title in the intended way.
[02:44:00] <jbk> i mean in terms of web based stuff, that is the oldest and most fundamental function
[02:44:10] <BadKarma> oh heh
[02:44:16] <paulf> I would guess that any sufficiently large body of even static content might need to be database drive just to manage it
[02:44:19] <sommerfeld> wesolows: they hired people with experience running steam-powered locomotives.
[02:44:22] <wesolows> jbk: The problem is that no one wants to solve a simple problem in a simple way.
[02:44:58] <wesolows> sommerfeld: That would probably still be an improvement in my experience.  At least then they could tell me something interesting while not solving my problem.
[02:45:04] <paulf> they need one of those new 2U systems with 128GB of RAM, and just load the whole dang datase into memory :)
[02:45:24] <paulf> wes:  haha, interesting perspective :)
[02:45:33] <BadKarma> however, there are other factos as well that come to the customer satisfaction... but the time to find a qualified technician is definitely one of them
[02:46:32] <jmcp_> jbk: received. I'll put that email into the RTI comments
[02:46:40] <jbk> ok
[02:46:52] <jbk> hopefully it all makes sense... my mind sometimes goes faster than my fingers :)
[02:47:19] <wesolows> jbk: That's way better than the opposite problem.
[02:47:28] <jmcp_> jbk: it does, don't worry
[02:48:48] <BadKarma> so sunsolve
[02:49:29] * BadKarma takes a note of that that one
[02:51:42] <BadKarma> paulf: what about docs.sun.com?
[02:52:12] <paulf> It was down a few minutes when I tried to find a doc, and it was down Tuesday night too
[02:53:00] <BadKarma> will have a look at it on...ahem well... Monday I am afraid!
[02:53:35] <paulf> it's not a big deal, I was just wanting to read about Kerberos
[02:53:50] <BadKarma> but its annoying isnt it?
[02:53:50] <paulf> I found another article about it
[02:54:07] <paulf> yeah :)
[02:56:10] <jbk> jmcp_: did you did a build on x86?
[02:56:41] <jbk> if not, i will kick one off real quick, just to verify there's no interference
[02:56:46] <paulf> woot!  got the kadmind to start :)
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[02:59:01] <jmcp_> jbk: yes
[02:59:04] <jmcp_> I did
[02:59:12] <jbk> ok..
[02:59:20] <jbk> so then i don't need to worry about it
[02:59:42] <jmcp_> nah, don't worry
[02:59:50] <jmcp_> I've got another x86 sanity build going right now
[02:59:58] <jbk> ok
[03:01:49] <dmick> ooooh, build me some sanity while you're at it, I'm all out
[03:02:07] <jbk> :)
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[03:03:47] <jbk> i found mine came back after getting a less stressful job
[03:04:16] <paulf> jbk: they make those?
[03:04:30] <jbk> well stress is relative
[03:06:03] <jbk> not being forced to constantly sacrifice my personal life for work makes a big difference :)
[03:06:16] <jmcp_> dmick: sorry, my sanity quota is all taken
[03:06:41] <jbk> though i'm finding myself still not 100% adjusted to the new environment yet
[03:07:17] <nachox> hey people
[03:07:54] <jmcp_> hi nachox
[03:08:24] <hile_> hey jmcp
[03:09:01] <jmcp_> hi hile_
[03:10:00] <jbk> i'm so used to spineless mgmt, that i still haven't quite reset my expectations yet to a manager that will actually say no and not throw his people under the bus
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[03:15:51] <bda> jbk: I had one of those once. Great guy. Incredibly stressed out, all the time.
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[03:21:34] <jbk> it is nice
[03:24:17] <jbk> it helps that i'm no longer at a place that feels 'first to market' (even when your talking something that's largely a commodity) is the single most important thing over all others
[03:25:36] <bda> I've worked in .edu, for just one big corporation, in the print industry, and now email. "First to market" has thankfully not been something I've had to deal with.
[03:29:11] <jbk> well in some cases, it makes sense, though i'd argue 'first to good enough' is usually gonna be better
[03:29:51] <bda> Just more stress in an already stressful job I don't need.
[03:31:04] <jbk> and in a lot of cases, it was just simply because they didn't have the talent they needed (even though they could have very easily afforded to acquire it)
[03:31:48] <jbk> you had people architecting and building out key internet facing components that couldn't understand the difference between a dns name and a url
[03:32:09] <bda> ...what?
[03:32:45] <jbk> they couldn't understand the difference between 'foo.com' and 'http://foo.com/bar/doc.html'
[03:32:59] <bda> No, but what?
[03:33:00] <bda> :P
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[03:36:49] <jbk> heh
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[03:37:58] <jbk> since i used to do all the internal dns for the whole company, i got all those requests :)
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[03:44:49] <Tpenta> !seen benr
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[03:48:39] <jbk> hi Tpenta
[03:48:44] <Tpenta> hi
[03:52:35] <wesolows> jmcp: go put back
[03:53:52] <jbk> wesolows: are you referring to libdisasm?
[03:53:55] <wesolows> yep
[03:54:14] <jbk> \o/
[03:54:19] <wesolows> your RTI, like the use of unnecessary violence in the apprehension of the Blues Brothers, has been approved.
[03:54:58] <wesolows> great work; I'm really happy to see this
[03:55:16] <jbk> haha
[03:55:37] * jbk loves giving his address as 1060 W Addison to see how many people get it :)
[03:56:17] <wesolows> That's my address too!
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[03:57:13] <jbk> fun drinking game: drink whenever a cop car crashes :)
[03:58:20] <wesolows> that's a great way to end up looking like the cop cars
[03:58:27] <jbk> indeed
[03:59:13] * jbk grew up just across the state line from chicago
[03:59:35] <dmick> baby, don't you wanna go
[04:09:48] * jbk is for thanksgiving & christmas :)
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[04:31:18] * jmcp wanders back in
[04:32:30] <jbk> \o/
[04:32:48] <jmcp> just need the x86 sanity build to complete, write the flagday message and I should be able to get that putback done
[04:33:03] <jbk> excellent.. and thanks
[04:33:26] <e^ipi> jbk: libdisasm?
[04:33:30] <jbk> yep
[04:33:36] <e^ipi> w00t
[04:33:38] <e^ipi> congrats
[04:34:30] <jmcp> e^ipi: we haven't putback yet ... gimme a bit
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[04:42:53] <flyingparchment> how does visual panels sit with the webconsole?  will webconsole go away?
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[04:56:31] <sleepcat> can anyone think of a reason why lppasswd -g sys -a root would not set my CUPS password so I can add a printer via the web interface?
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[04:57:39] <sleepcat> my cups software is in /opt/csw/sbin /opt/csw/bin and /opt/csw/etc/cups
[04:58:16] <sleepcat> I set the authentication type to None, to Digest and still it doesn't accept my password.
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[05:00:17] <jbk> sleepcat: why not use the build in lp?
[05:00:44] <sleepcat> jbk: because it doesn't seem to work
[05:01:02] <sleepcat> my printer is a usb HP Deskjet 3930
[05:01:09] <jbk> oh hmm :(
[05:01:16] <sleepcat> I don't see it on the list of printers
[05:01:37] <sleepcat> is there a way to ad the PPD file to lp?
[05:01:43] <sleepcat> is there a way to add the PPD file to lp?
[05:02:23] <jbk> no sure
[05:02:39] <jbk> i'd shoot a message off to the printing-discuss(?) list
[05:02:49] <jbk> (can't remember if it's print- or printing-)
[05:03:12] <sleepcat> yeah, everything else seems to work under solaris except for my printer
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[05:03:18] <jbk> the people working on the printing stuff appear to read it and have been very helpful in the past
[05:04:00] <palowoda> sleepcat: Are you using the new Presto printer drivers?
[05:04:21] <sleepcat> no I'm using solaris 10 u4.  Haven't tried opensolaris yet
[05:04:41] <sleepcat> should I migrate over to OpenSolaris?
[05:04:51] <palowoda> You have someting to lose?
[05:05:05] <sleepcat> i have lots of documents that i've created...
[05:05:06] <jbk> well i don't see a 3930 ppd file in b72
[05:05:26] <jbk> but you could always find out if there's a way to add a ppd file
[05:05:38] <sleepcat> i'll probably stay put because I just moved from 11/06 to 8/07
[05:06:03] <palowoda> Is this a very recent printer model?
[05:06:07] <jbk> the one thing that would be nice is i don't see a way currently to really get at any printer specific features (though that could just be a matter of documentation)
[05:06:18] <jbk> i think cups is probably better in that respect
[05:06:25] <sleepcat> palowoda: it is one of those cheapo HP printers
[05:06:54] <palowoda> What one of those printers that have all kinds of Windows dependencies.
[05:07:20] <sleepcat> palowoda: I think it is a standard HP Deskjet...it runs on a Mac
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[05:07:35] <palowoda> Why don't you ask on the printer-discuss list if the model is supported.
[05:07:48] <sleepcat> i will
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[05:08:18] <palowoda> Maybe there is a model close enough to use that is currently there.
[05:08:26] <sleepcat> 3920
[05:10:36] <palowoda> I see a HP 3820 what is the difference between the two models.
[05:11:22] <jbk> 100?
[05:11:34] <palowoda> funny
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[05:11:46] <jbk> i'll be here all week :)
[05:12:31] <palowoda> After that are you scheduled to die?
[05:12:39] <sleepcat> i think that little monopolist bill g. should pay to have drivers written for other OSes as punishment
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[05:13:14] <palowoda> Nah printers are just a PITA for all versions of Unicies the way I see it.
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[05:14:47] <palowoda> Every month I go to the local computer store and see a whole new line of printers.  Not that they are all that different than the previous models.
[05:15:04] <paulf> I don't want anything to do with any printer < $1000
[05:15:05] <paulf> :)
[05:15:30] <dmick> My Ricoh 1000 is awesome tho
[05:15:41] <sleepcat> paulf: its a home printer
[05:15:42] <palowoda> I got a decent Brother Color Laser for 600.00.
[05:15:45] <dmick> far less than 1k, color laser, fast, quiet, does postscript
[05:15:56] <dmick> I think I gave $240 at Costco
[05:16:00] <paulf> sleepcat: I don't ever print at home anymore...too much trouble
[05:16:15] <paulf> I put my nickel in the basket and print at work :)
[05:16:46] <jbk> i have a $100 samsung b&w laser printer that works well
[05:16:49] <paulf> I've spent too much time supporting crappy printers, which has left me bitter :)
[05:16:52] <jbk> didn't even have to configure it under solaris
[05:17:07] <jbk> just turned it on and it asked me to pick a queue name
[05:17:10] <jbk> and it worked
[05:17:19] <sleepcat> jbk: i want to strangle you!
[05:17:26] <jbk> though trying to get it to print from windows via ipp is a different matter :)
[05:17:37] <paulf> I don't even work on printers on Windows where there are real drivers
[05:17:38] <jbk> windows keeps trying to call some method that errors out
[05:18:11] <sleepcat> how hard can a printer be?  It just prints out text and pictures.
[05:18:33] <jbk> well there's all the various features -- detecting what trays exist
[05:18:35] <dmick> think of it as a graphics card, but worse
[05:18:36] <jbk> paper sizes
[05:18:38] <jbk> duplexing
[05:18:44] <jbk> finishing
[05:18:46] <jbk> collating
[05:18:56] <jbk> then different ways to rasterize the image
[05:19:07] <jbk> though amusingly
[05:19:10] <jbk> at my old job
[05:19:17] <sleepcat> dot matrix printers.  lets go back to them
[05:19:17] <jbk> with the new peoplesoft implementation
[05:19:24] <jbk> they couldn't get printing to work right from windows :)
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[05:19:28] <jbk> but it worked from solaris
[05:19:29] <sleepcat> hahhaha
[05:19:35] <paulf> :)
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[05:20:08] <paulf> I guess I could refine my policy to be that if a printer doesn't have built-in Ethernet I won't touch it
[05:20:13] <jbk> mostly because they had issues getting it to use the built in printer fonts vs. the windows fonts
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[05:20:45] <jbk> solaris, they could just dump raw pcl
[05:20:58] <paulf> by that point, it's probably a postscript laser printer
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[05:22:37] <jbk> kinda annoying though -- it was the _only_ unix system in the company (aside from my desktop) that did any sort of printing
[05:22:42] <jbk> so support was a concern
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[05:33:29] <sleepcat> i say opensolaris needs a basic printer.
[05:33:53] <sleepcat> a basic printer driver will print to any printer.  It will be very simple
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[05:34:09] <jbk> it has that (kinda)
[05:34:16] <sleepcat> no collating, duplexing and fancy paper sizes
[05:34:27] <jbk> essentially what happens today is app dumps data to lp
[05:34:40] <jbk> lp tries to figure out what the data is (text or postscript basically)
[05:34:48] <paulf> cat <file> > /dev/lpX
[05:34:50] <jbk> then runs it through a filter
[05:35:12] <jbk> that knows how to translate that into whatever bytestream the printer knows about
[05:35:21] <jbk> and dumps it to /dev/whatever
[05:35:24] <sleepcat> can I do this: cat "meow meow" > /dev/printers/0
[05:35:37] <jbk> depends on your printer
[05:35:51] <paulf> that would be echo "meow meow" :)
[05:35:53] <sleepcat> its a usb HP 3930
[05:36:07] <jbk> you can try it
[05:36:08] <sleepcat> paulf: yeah, got my unix commands mixed up
[05:36:19] <jbk> but it's basically going to just send those bytes to the printer
[05:36:30] <jbk> depending on what your printer is expecting
[05:36:35] <jbk> who knows what it'll do
[05:36:36] <sleepcat> jbk: cfgadm finds my printer
[05:37:13] <sleepcat> when I use the cups command lpinfo -v it gets listed
[05:37:26] <jbk> some will default to merely printing text in some built in font in the absence of certain non-printable (in ascii) byte sequences
[05:37:34] <sleepcat> just doesn't want to print
[05:37:42] <jbk> others may take more
[05:37:51] <jbk> did you try setting it up with something close to your model?
[05:38:23] <sleepcat> jbk: i'm done screwing with it
[05:38:39] <sleepcat> i'll probably just purchase a printer that is listed in that huge drop down list
[05:39:03] <sleepcat> or i'll just save my documents and print in windows
[05:39:10] <sleepcat> no big deal
[05:39:16] <jbk> real quick: /usr/sadm/admin/bin/printmgr
[05:39:22] <jbk> select one that looks to be close
[05:39:27] <jbk> then try it
[05:39:32] <sleepcat> jbk: i did that already. no go
[05:39:44] <jbk> did you run enable & accept?
[05:39:47] <sleepcat> yes
[05:39:55] <jbk> hmm
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[05:40:23] <sleepcat> I see all the printers I created in CUPS in printmgr too
[05:40:46] <sleepcat> which may be strange since my cups config data is in /opt/csw/bin
[05:41:00] <sleepcat> which may be strange since my cups config data is in /opt/csw/etc/cups
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[06:00:15] <CIA-26> lq150181: 6610208 conskbd may panic in the environment of multiple cpus and multiple keyboards
[06:00:16] <jbk> ok what would be the appropriate kernel subcategory if i want to file an rfe to improve this: http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/uts/common/os/exec.c#606
[06:00:34] <flyingparchment> heh, multiple keyboards.  multithreaded typing
[06:03:31] <jbk> also, cmn_err is not zone aware is it? (i.e. cmn_err goes to the global zone only, regardless of the zone the lwp is part of)
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[06:10:14] <jmcp> jbk: I believe so
[06:10:15] <jmcp> jbk: x86 build has finished ..... here we go!
[06:10:37] <jbk> you believe it is not zone aware?
[06:10:43] <jmcp> that's my understanding
[06:10:50] <jbk> that's what I thought.
[06:11:20] <sleepcat> CIA-26: are you in the CIA?
[06:11:33] <e^ipi> talking to a bot is the first sign of insanity
[06:11:46] <e^ipi> turing test notwithstanding
[06:12:39] <paulf> it successfully immitated an idle person :)
[06:12:54] <sleepcat> e^ipi: bots are people too!
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[06:20:58] <jbk> well i'll see if this rfe gets created..
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[06:26:24] <eck> how many of the cds are required to install the base opensolaris system?
[06:28:18] <e^ipi> a single DVD
[06:28:19] <delewis> do you have a reason for just wanting the base?
[06:28:32] <e^ipi> or a single CD plus the DVD iso exported via NFS
[06:29:04] <eck> how does that work? i can set up my nfs server to export the mounted dvd and then mount that from the install cd?
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[06:29:35] <e^ipi> yes
[06:29:39] <eck> awesome, thanks
[06:29:45] <e^ipi> *nod*
[06:29:46] <john--__> any of you trying to run the 507 build of the sol exp dev edition in vmware fusion on a mac?
[06:29:56] <e^ipi> use parallels
[06:30:25] <e^ipi> i couldn't get vmware fusion to work properly on my laptop so I gave up and tried parallels... works like a charm
[06:30:27] <john--__> i installed vmware tools (granted, its for sol 10), and i lose video, or the ability to do anything once the vm reboots
[06:30:32] <eck> e^ipi: so for that method, the single cd would be the first cd image (plus the dvd), or is there a special cd image?
[06:30:45] <e^ipi> eck: nope, just the regular first CD
[06:30:48] <eck> thanks
[06:30:58] <e^ipi> and when it asks you where your install media is, one of the options is NFS
[06:31:21] <john--__> how long until solaris express becomes "solaris 11" and isnt treated as a preview?
[06:33:09] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[06:33:14] <e^ipi> last october
[06:33:25] <e^ipi> and then it slipped
[06:33:30] <e^ipi> indefinately
[06:34:16] <john--__> ah
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[06:34:37] <john--__> piece of shit...vmware tools totally killed this vm
[06:34:42] <john--__> cant even get it to respond
[06:34:54] <e^ipi> use parallels
[06:34:57] <e^ipi> seriously
[06:35:15] <john--__> for every other os, vmware fusion is more stable
[06:35:19] <john--__> i've had nothing but good luck with it
[06:35:22] <e^ipi> to hell with vmware fusion, it's a piece of crap
[06:35:27] <john--__> i also dont want to spend money on parallels
[06:35:42] <e^ipi> so make friends with bittorrent
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[06:37:42] <paulf> g'night
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[06:38:12] <jbk> heh.. one of my friends is giving me a hard time over the libdisasm putback (ironically a sun employee)
[06:38:23] <bda> http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/11284 # haha!
[06:38:58] <e^ipi> jbk: how so?
[06:39:43] <jbk> 'it's like your working for sun, but not getting paid'
[06:39:48] <jbk> (he wasn't serious)
[06:40:02] <jbk> but I corrected him :)
[06:41:16] <jbk> err you're
[06:41:23] <bda> Parallels is worth the $$ imo.
[06:41:54] <bda> Though I do wish it used something other than Realtek.
[06:42:22] <john--__> looks like this is my problem
[06:42:23] <john--__> http://communities.vmware.com/message/700757
[06:42:24] <bda> c'est la fuckin' vie, though, eh.
[06:42:33] <john--__> ill have to figure out how to swap the mouse driver
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[06:55:33] <moazamraja> bda: try VMWare Fusion
[06:55:41] <moazamraja> i hear it's better than Parallels
[06:56:14] <moazamraja> <-- using parallels tho
[06:56:15] <e^ipi> i couldn't get solaris installed in vmware, it worked it parallels
[06:56:18] <moazamraja> what i have a license for
[06:56:19] <moazamraja> ah
[06:56:26] <e^ipi> <-- counter-anecdote
[06:56:41] <moazamraja> i have only *heard* that vmware fusion is nice
[06:56:52] <moazamraja> but i have tried parallels and run it all the time, it's decent
[06:56:54] <moazamraja> does the job
[06:56:57] <moazamraja> wish i had more ram
[06:57:48] <e^ipi> yeah, me too
[06:58:09] <e^ipi> apple was totally gouging for the ram though, so I went with the base model 1gb machine
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[07:00:16] <john--__> the more i look at this the more i think im better off not bothering using the solaris gui
[07:00:27] <john--__> my macs/linux boxes have more up to date apps
[07:00:32] <john--__> probably better to just remotely admin
[07:00:39] <john--__> im still in the learning stage w/ solaris
[07:00:52] <e^ipi> up to you
[07:00:53] <moazamraja> i bought my ram seperately
[07:00:54] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[07:01:10] <john--__> yeah i always buy ram separately
[07:01:12] <john--__> not from apple
[07:01:20] <moazamraja> and yeha..., i don't typically use the Solaris GUI unless i have to
[07:01:37] <jmcp> Solaris has a gui? since when?
[07:01:44] <e^ipi> john--__: for myself, i like trial by fire so I  tend to cut myself off from other machines until I feel comfortable in the new OS
[07:02:10] <john--__> if i do that i probably should install it on a separate box
[07:02:11] <e^ipi> speaking of which I should buy a VAX or alpha
[07:02:12] <john--__> and not a vm
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[07:03:07] <RElling> I've got an LSI11 around here somewhere... maybe even a PDP-11...
[07:03:27] <e^ipi> a real one, or an emulator?
[07:03:51] <Tempt> Baaaaah.
[07:03:57] <Tempt> Anyone got any experience monitoring jboss?
[07:03:58] <e^ipi> ?
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[07:05:26] <Tempt> I'm trying to work out if there is a better way of monitoring a jboss based app than just poking the port
[07:07:42] <e^ipi> I don't even know what jboss is
[07:08:32] <jmcp> a java appserver
[07:08:43] <RElling> a real one... unless my wife threw it out with the spring cleaning :-O  not sure about media though...
[07:08:44] <moazamraja> Tempt: there is
[07:08:49] <moazamraja> Tempt: jmx
[07:09:04] <Tempt> any hints? I've googled and not found inspiration.
[07:09:13] <jbk> jmcp: so i have to ask, how long does it normally take before the stuff is visible on os.org?
[07:09:22] <jmcp> jbk: "the stuff" ?
[07:09:30] <jmcp> oh, the flag-day message? not too long after I send it out
[07:09:32] <moazamraja> Tempt: http://www.unixville.com/~moazam/stories/2004/05/18/visualizingGarbageCollection.html
[07:09:35] <jmcp> I haven't sent it out yet, see the pm
[07:09:36] <jbk> putback.. or has it not happened yet?
[07:09:39] <jbk> ahh
[07:10:51] <moazamraja> Tempt: that is old...
[07:10:58] <moazamraja> Tempt: try JConsole nowadays
[07:10:59] <Tempt> moazamraja: I'll take a look, thanks!
[07:10:59] <moazamraja> Tempt: http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2SE/jconsole.html
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[07:12:01] <trygvis> Tempt: take a look at opennms for jmx monitoring an graphing
[07:12:03] <trygvis> it's quite nice
[07:12:31] <Tempt> Umn, I just need to poke it for alive/dead
[07:12:46] <Tempt> I don't need anything past that, I'd use Hyperic if I needed a performance solution.
[07:12:55] <moazamraja> how are u doing that now?
[07:12:57] <trygvis> that is often hard to say without knowing something about the application
[07:13:00] <moazamraja> (i.e., poking it)
[07:13:11] <trygvis> the jvm doesn't die as often as the app
[07:13:18] <Tempt> moazamraja: checking to see if there's a response on the TCP port ...
[07:13:33] <moazamraja> u mean if it allows a connection to the port
[07:13:38] <Tempt> pretty much.
[07:13:44] <Tempt> Which is a pretty chintzy solution
[07:13:51] <moazamraja> soo..just write a cronjob+script which connects to the port
[07:14:07] <moazamraja> but, u said that's all u want, a chintzy solution
[07:14:08] <Tempt> I was hoping there might be something a little better than just poking the port.
[07:14:14] <moazamraja> jmx
[07:14:27] <moazamraja> u can do an 'uptime' command with jmx
[07:14:32] <moazamraja> to the jvm
[07:14:43] <trygvis> reading a jmx variable will be as useful as poking a random port
[07:15:27] <moazamraja> how so?
[07:15:32] <moazamraja> a jmx variable can tell u a lot more
[07:15:38] <moazamraja> i.e., how much memory the app is using
[07:15:42] <moazamraja> how many threads are active
[07:15:48] <moazamraja> are any threads locked
[07:15:49] <trygvis> that is not what Tempt is asking for
[07:16:02] <Tempt> I don't give a toss what the performance metrics look like
[07:16:12] <Tempt> I need to write a script which returns 100 if it's dead and 110 if it's alive
[07:16:15] <Tempt> end of story ...
[07:16:28] <moazamraja> so dude
[07:16:31] <Tempt> some in the crowd might recognize those ...
[07:16:33] <moazamraja> then just keep poking the port!
[07:16:38] <moazamraja> i already said that
[07:16:43] <moazamraja> if that is all u care about
[07:16:48] <moazamraja> script to poke port
[07:16:53] <Tempt> Alright, I'll keep poking the port, and be happy with that.
[07:17:19] <moazamraja> heh
[07:17:21] <moazamraja> otherwise,
[07:17:30] <moazamraja> RuntimeMXBean rtbean = ManagementFactory.getRuntimeMXBean();
[07:17:42] <Tempt> OH NOES
[07:17:45] <moazamraja>     public String getUptimeInMS() {
[07:17:46] <moazamraja>         return Long.toString(rtbean.getUptime());
[07:17:47] <moazamraja> done
[07:17:50] <Tempt> I'm not putting my eyeballs anywhere near this java nonsense.
[07:17:53] <moazamraja> it's HABA!! RUN!
[07:18:26] <moazamraja> Tempt: what port are u poking btw ?
[07:19:35] <Tempt> the application port. everything is on random ports for this particular deployment.
[07:19:39] <Tempt> (It isn't my app)
[07:19:52] <Tempt> (I'm just deploying VCS)
[07:20:15] <moazamraja> does the app port talk http?
[07:20:22] <moazamraja> or some crap on it's own
[07:20:28] <Tempt> magical crap
[07:20:30] <moazamraja> ok
[07:21:33] <Tempt> anyway, between poking the port and just making sure the processes are running, it should be easy enough.
[07:21:35] <moazamraja> if have nagios installed btw, it can deal with that also
[07:22:03] <Tempt> no nagios, no hyperic, no opennms, no bb, no hpov
[07:24:13] <WickedWicky> Morning!
[07:25:09] <Tempt> Err, afternoon!
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[07:25:29] <WickedWicky> Tempt
[07:25:48] <WickedWicky> there is a URL within the management function of Jboss you can do a wget on
[07:25:57] <WickedWicky> it returns HTTP 200 when ok
[07:26:05] <WickedWicky> wait
[07:26:11] <WickedWicky> lemme login to a work server
[07:27:12] <Tempt> Doesn't matter, I've already closed it off.
[07:27:43] <Tempt> Done, finished, finito. Port + processes existing = success for now, and I've found some more useful information to get one of the javaheads to brew something up
[07:27:43] <WickedWicky> oh
[07:28:22] <WickedWicky> . /jmx-console/HtmlAdaptor?action=inspectMBean&name=jboss.management.local%3AJ2EEServer%3DLocal%2Cj2eeType%3DJ2EEApplication%2Cname%3DCACEPG.ear
[07:28:30] <WickedWicky> that's the URL anyway, without the dot of course
[07:28:43] <WickedWicky> in this case you monitor the health of CACEPG.ear
[07:29:45] <WickedWicky> and of course you could do a regular HTTP GET to the application port, (put a static html page somewhere in the webapp dir or something) and see if HTTP requests are served
[07:29:54] <WickedWicky> sorry I didnt reply earlier, I just woke up
[07:31:47] <Tempt> Oh, it's all good.
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[07:39:32] <JWheeler> Does anyone know if zfs has any concept of bad sectors?
[07:40:11] <JWheeler> I'm starting to get checksum failures, which I know means it's time to buy a new disk, but in the interim, is it smart enough to figure out which LBAs are failing?
[07:40:14] <e^ipi> well, every piece of data is checkssummed
[07:40:27] <JWheeler> ...and avoid them :?
[07:40:36] <e^ipi> oh, yeah
[07:40:53] <e^ipi> though I wouldn't continue to run off a failing drive, I'd replace it PDQ
[07:41:02] <JWheeler> without knowing the cause of my failures, it's hard to know what's going on
[07:41:10] <JWheeler> yeah. Time for a backup me thinks
[07:41:11] <WickedWicky> replace the disk anyway
[07:41:21] <WickedWicky> run it as single disk in another server ( or the same)
[07:41:24] <WickedWicky> and do checks
[07:41:57] <WickedWicky> when the disk is good, keep it as spare or put it on the location where you got your replacement desk from
[07:42:10] <JWheeler> has the whole "zpool send| ssh, but zpool receive needs root access, but ssh doesn't allow root logon" problem been resolved yet?
[07:42:26] <syndrome71> you could also look at a format analyze
[07:42:32] <syndrome71> but not the write tests... :)
[07:42:48] <WickedWicky> syndrome71, that's kinda what i meant with replace the disk and do tests, yes
[07:42:51] <JWheeler> oh yes, I was forgetting about format. It's still new to me with solaris :)
[07:42:58] <syndrome71> :)
[07:43:07] <syndrome71> format is gold for looking for dud physical stuff...
[07:43:57] <JWheeler> so zpool scrub will *find* the errors, and format analyze will work around them?
[07:44:16] <JWheeler> I understand the layers they're working at, I just wonder if they're kind of doing the same thing
[07:44:38] <WickedWicky> i think zpool will see the checksum fails and correct it, I am not sure if zpool marks blocks as being bad
[07:44:43] <WickedWicky> format does this guaranteed
[07:44:58] <WickedWicky> it keeps a badblock list
[07:45:10] <WickedWicky> or defect list, as it calls it
[07:45:15] <JWheeler> and zpool hooks into this somehow?
[07:45:27] <WickedWicky> I might hope so
[07:45:34] <JWheeler> or is it just yanking the blocks out from underneath the fs
[07:45:53] <JWheeler> so "refresh" is safe to run?
[07:45:59] <WickedWicky> presumably it marks the block as bad, at least that's what all fs-es do that I know
[07:46:12] <flyingparchment> a disk has an internal bad block list, once it's reporting errors to the OS, consider it broken
[07:46:38] <JWheeler> flyingparchment, and LBA is abstracting all this away from the fs on top of the disk?
[07:46:58] <WickedWicky> well, you never use all the blocks that are on a disk
[07:47:22] <flyingparchment> JWheeler: the drive hides it from the OS
[07:47:27] <WickedWicky> there are always some blocks reserved on the disk (by the disk) for badblocks, they're automagicly being rewritten (mapped) to another place
[07:47:59] <WickedWicky> but flyingparchment is right, badblocks == replace disk
[07:48:07] <WickedWicky> disks are too cheap these days to toy with data
[07:48:15] <flyingparchment> JWheeler: once the disk runs out of 'spare' sectors, it can't do that any more, so the OS starts seeing errors.. at that point, the disk has already been failing for some time
[07:48:30] <WickedWicky> yup
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[07:49:19] <WickedWicky> I think you can see if a disk is using 'spare' sectors by typing format, it will show 'Defect list found' or 'Defect list in place' something like that
[07:49:22] <flyingparchment> assuming this is a mirror or raidz, just consider the drive failed and replace it
[07:49:43] <JWheeler> I'm just trying to find that now WickedWicky
[07:49:50] <WickedWicky> and i really really should run now, I am sorry
[07:49:53] <syndrome71> seriously, if the disk is starting to throw bad clocks and corrupt data, it's time for another disk... ;)
[07:49:55] <WickedWicky> I will be back soon
[07:49:59] <JWheeler> flyingparchment: naw, this is just a single disk, sitting in my desktop
[07:50:06] <flyingparchment> JWheeler: stby ;)
[07:50:17] <JWheeler> .....thanks ;)
[07:50:40] <JWheeler> sommerfeld, about that zfs send problem I mentioned earlier?
[07:50:44] <JWheeler> *so
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[07:51:02] <flyingparchment> you might be able to use a bad block list for now, but you'll probably find more parts of the disk keep failing, and zfs will get unhappy again
[07:51:10] <flyingparchment> next time, buy 3 disks and make a raidz.. they're so cheap now anyway
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[07:52:01] <JWheeler> I think I'd run a standard stripe, and just back it up
[07:52:03] <e^ipi_> so, that button isn't for touching
[07:52:14] <JWheeler> lol e^ipi
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[07:56:37] <boyd> Tempt: pingh
[07:57:21] <syndrome71> boyd: mong
[07:57:37] <boyd> syndrome71: Heh.. I was going to ping Tempt about your email
[07:57:56] <syndrome71> ha
[07:58:04] <syndrome71> too late. :) I already pinged him. :)
[07:58:10] <boyd> Oh well
[07:58:20] <boyd> He's not on jabber ATM either.. .sheesh
[08:00:27] <syndrome71> he's busy building boxes...
[08:00:36] <syndrome71> as I'm sure all of us would like to be... ;)
[08:00:43] <boyd> Heh... sure...
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[08:04:40] <JWheeler> with zfs send, can I not secursively send all fs's to a single file somehow?
[08:04:47] <JWheeler> *recursively
[08:05:04] <JWheeler> I'm just wanting to backup the whole disk, doing it one zfs at a time is going to be a pain
[08:05:43] <boyd> Not until zfs send -R [PSARC/2007/574]
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[08:06:43] <bda> https://labs.omniti.com/trac/zetaback
[08:07:36] *** simford has joined #opensolaris
[08:08:13] <boyd> Cool
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[08:09:43] <JWheeler> thanks :(
[08:10:00] <bda> ?
[08:10:29] <JWheeler> well.... I want it now! ;)
[08:10:37] <bda> Look at my link.
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[08:11:35] <JWheeler> That looks great, but will still take me some time to setup :)
[08:11:45] <JWheeler> as for right now, I have a burger waiting for me...bbiab
[08:13:25] <trygvis> mmm, burger
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[08:40:01] <bda> I love when my wireless headphones pick up television stations.
[08:40:55] <bda> Going from Lali Puna to some real crime show talking with a murderer. ftw.
[08:44:34] <Tempt> boyd: pong
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[08:45:12] <andyshack> I've discovered the joy of logs. Theyre pretty useful :)
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[08:46:37] <e^ipi> you didn't realize that before?
[08:47:40] <andyshack> It's been on the list of things to look into although I've had trouble finding them.
[08:47:55] <andyshack> isnt less +g filename meant to start me at the end of the file ?
[08:47:56] <e^ipi> logs?
[08:48:43] <e^ipi> how long have you been using a computer that you haven't gotten around to looking at logs before?
[08:49:08] <Teltariat> ehl oh ehl
[08:49:34] <oninoshiko> andyshack: you might look at "tail" or "tail -f" (one shows the end of a file, one follows the end of the file, so you see when a new line is written
[08:49:38] <Teltariat> #opensolaris, Ping!
[08:49:53] <oninoshiko> DROP
[08:49:58] <Teltariat> AH!
[08:49:59] * oninoshiko giggles
[08:50:20] <Teltariat> :-( Looks like someone is black-holing my ICMP packets.
[08:50:29] <Teltariat> I've been violated!
[08:50:52] <andyshack> oninoshiko : cheers i've got tail 101 down although i'd like to be able to scroll backwards starting at the bottom of a file.
[08:51:09] <oninoshiko> would you prefer a NACK, Teltariat?
[08:51:16] <andyshack> ill look at the tail man maybe it can
[08:51:41] <Teltariat> oninoshiko: well at least with a NACK, I'll know you cared enough to at least _tell_ me you don't care. :)
[08:51:58] <Teltariat> Oni No Shiko: Demon of (_?_)
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[08:53:28] <oninoshiko> thought or fourth daughter... depending on how you feel like reading it... and 'no' (IIRC) is tipicly translated by flipping the words and adding 's
[08:53:41] <oninoshiko> err
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[08:53:47] <oninoshiko> no.. just an 's
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[08:56:49] <Teltariat> Really?  For example "Hiro no kunai" means "Hiro's Kunai", or "Kunai of Hiro", so ..wait.. you're right... its "Shiko of Demon".... bleh.  Now I'm confused. :|
[08:57:22] <Teltariat> Demon's Thought
[08:57:28] <Teltariat> Demon of Thought?
[08:57:37] <Teltariat> 0_o
[08:57:53] <oninoshiko> "Demon's thought" is the translation i normally use
[08:58:09] <oninoshiko> unless i feel like getting into the other one
[08:58:20] <Teltariat> Yes, its "Tought of Demon", makes sense
[08:58:38] <Teltariat> Nice name
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[08:59:10] <oninoshiko> and then the ancillary connotations that come with it for me, but likely noone who didnt know me well would know
[09:00:57] <oninoshiko> andyshack: i dont often scroll through logs that way... normally i have somthink spacific im looking for, or i want to see when somthing happends
[09:01:39] <oninoshiko> so *I* you grep alot, and sometimes tail
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[09:02:23] <oninoshiko> i need to go to sleep... night
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[09:08:57] <WickedWicky> yo you yo
[09:09:21] <e^ipi> what up, homie
[09:09:43] <WickedWicky> w0rd w0rd
[09:10:01] * WickedWicky is the gangstaest gangsta of all gangstas
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[09:11:54] <trochej> cofee
[09:12:03] <e^ipi> coffee is life
[09:12:04] <WickedWicky> coffee is good
[09:12:24] <e^ipi> I roasted up some yrg the other day & drank it this morning
[09:12:37] <e^ipi> I've decided I /really/ like ethiopia
[09:15:58] <madhatter> I'll take a fresh coffee, too
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[09:20:22] <Teltariat> Solaris x86's GRUB doesn't seem to be able to read the Solarus filesystems when you're trying to do things manually from GRUB's command line
[09:20:29] <Teltariat> So how does it do what it does?
[09:20:36] <Teltariat> (This is for Solaris 10, 8/07)
[09:21:09] <Teltariat> Or perhaps I'm addressing the disks incorrectly....?
[09:21:16] <Teltariat> (which I don't think is the issue...)
[09:21:37] <WickedWicky> what do you mean, cant acces?
[09:21:45] <WickedWicky> you run: root (hd0,0,a) ?
[09:21:57] <WickedWicky> or whatever your root device is
[09:22:09] <Teltariat> GRUB lets you "browse" a device's filesystem that it knows how to read.
[09:22:14] <WickedWicky> yes
[09:22:21] <Teltariat> When I do kernel (hd0,0,a)/, and hit TAB, I get nothing
[09:22:42] <WickedWicky> not sure if that's tabable
[09:22:57] <WickedWicky> it does work though
[09:22:59] <Teltariat> How else would you come to know whats there?
[09:23:07] <WickedWicky> when I stuffed my menu.lst I do:
[09:23:12] <WickedWicky> root (hd0,0,a)
[09:23:20] <WickedWicky> configfile /boot/menu.lst
[09:23:25] <WickedWicky> if that doesnt work I go on with:
[09:23:39] <WickedWicky> kernel /platform/whatever
[09:23:40] <Teltariat> I'm wondering how come it works, but doesn't let you browse stuff
[09:24:13] <WickedWicky> Teltariat: you'd know cause you a) have a menu.lst in /boot/grub/
[09:24:35] <WickedWicky> b) you're in the bash shell for a reason, which would be: you know your way around doing things manual, which implies knowing pathnames and all
[09:25:44] <Teltariat> well I'll just leave it be.
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[09:25:59] <WickedWicky> kernel /boot/platform/i86pc/kernel/unix
[09:26:02] <g4lt-sb100> good call, if you have no idea what's going on
[09:26:06] <WickedWicky> that's what you most likely want
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[09:27:06] <WickedWicky> why are you in the bash shell to start with?
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[09:27:26] <Teltariat> I was not in the bash shell
[09:27:29] <Teltariat> I was in the GRUB shell
[09:27:35] <WickedWicky> yes
[09:27:40] <Teltariat> the one you get when you press 'c' at the GRUB prompt
[09:27:43] * g4lt-sb100 facedesks
[09:27:44] <WickedWicky> yes
[09:27:49] <WickedWicky> did you read the screen?
[09:27:52] <WickedWicky> it's the grub bash shell
[09:28:00] <Teltariat> Well excuse me, I didn't realize it was bash.  Apologies
[09:28:11] <WickedWicky> it's written on your screen :s
[09:28:17] <Teltariat> I didn't notice it.
[09:28:21] <Teltariat> That happens to me sometimes
[09:28:29] <g4lt-sb100> WickedWicky, shh, don't tell nrubsig, or he'll port ksh to it ;P
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[09:28:35] <WickedWicky> with dtrace
[09:28:37] <WickedWicky> :P
[09:28:40] <Teltariat> lol
[09:28:54] <WickedWicky> but Teltariat
[09:28:58] <Teltariat> DTracing your kernel from pre-boot to runnign state sounds good
[09:28:59] <Teltariat> :)
[09:29:04] <Teltariat> Yes WickedWicky?
[09:29:06] <WickedWicky> serious, you shouldnt be there unless you know your way around it
[09:29:23] <Teltariat> I do know my way around it, and have used it when I use it with Linux and BSD based systems
[09:29:34] <WickedWicky> there are sme commands inn that grub shell that can modify partitions and all, you dont wanna brick it I presume
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[09:29:42] <sparcdr> hey there
[09:29:48] <WickedWicky> hello sparkie
[09:29:51] <Teltariat> greets
[09:30:06] <sparcdr> just got done installing JDS 75 and ON 74 on my Ultra-20
[09:30:07] <sparcdr> works fine
[09:30:18] <sparcdr> nge still has the state bug though
[09:30:19] <WickedWicky> coolies
[09:30:57] <Teltariat> JDS 75 is out?
[09:31:04] <sparcdr> you have to remove power to set the link status back to default, it gets tied up by other systems (Windows, buggy drivers on non-Solaris OS, etc) but other than that, really suprised the bfu had no hitches
[09:31:05] <sparcdr> yes
[09:31:07] <sparcdr> GNOME 2.20
[09:31:24] <Teltariat> Have they fixed that retarded bug where on certain x86 platforms, it can't see the installation DVD after boot?
[09:31:27] <sparcdr> not much new, more refined apperaence options through desktop context menu
[09:31:37] <Teltariat> This was happening on b72,
[09:32:20] <sparcdr> i havent experienced that on any of the three systems I've used Nevada on, B64a (SXDE 05/07), Solaris 10 U4, and B70b (SXDE 09/07), VMware, Ultra-20 and Thinkpad
[09:32:23] <WickedWicky> JDS is just the graphical environment, and nothing to do with ON75 right?
[09:32:27] <sparcdr> yes
[09:32:34] <sparcdr> they try to keep versions synched though
[09:32:57] <Teltariat> Happened to me with Nevada, which is why I went with S10 8/07
[09:33:06] <sparcdr> regardless of progress, they're just a way to plan roadmaps.  they always refer to consolidations available from /os/downloads/ page, ie: ON, JDS, SFW etc
[09:33:22] <sparcdr> as BXX
[09:33:31] <Teltariat> I have another stupid question; prepare yourselves. :)
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[09:33:48] <Teltariat> How do you get Solaris to _send_ its hostname to the DHCP server?
[09:33:50] <sparcdr> anyways, getting ansty for ON 75, xVM integration updated to 7x series, it's stuck on 66 publically
[09:34:29] <sparcdr> understood why you ask that, not done it myself though, since my routers ignore hostnames, they merely report clients and use MAC to assign static dhcp leases
[09:34:53] <sparcdr> have you checked Sun docs?
[09:35:11] <sparcdr> since you're not using Nevada (OpenSolaris) I'm sure it'd be there if it were supported.
[09:35:15] <sparcdr> http://docs.sun.com/
[09:35:18] <Teltariat> I've Googled around, yes; I remember I found the solution before, but can't find it now
[09:35:35] <g4lt-sb100> Teltariat, TBH, "what hostname are you?" is not part of the ISC DHCP spec
[09:35:43] <sparcdr> ah, check manpages for dhcpagent (I think that's it), Sun docs first
[09:36:02] <Teltariat> g4lt-sb100: really?  I've come to depend on that for many of my hosts here.
[09:36:39] <Teltariat> (personal machines, not production, so you can calm down now. :D)
[09:36:50] <sparcdr> for me it wouldnt improve conditions, I use hostnames such as sol10-dev and sol11-dev and it'd be easy to mess it up
[09:37:01] <sparcdr> just use MAC, it's part of the spec, and more unique by far
[09:37:24] <sparcdr> like a fingerprint versus hair
[09:37:58] <Teltariat> heh, my machine is called "moonwater".  "Moon Water", "Sun Fire", get it? Hyuk hyuk
[09:38:11] <sparcdr> haha
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[09:39:08] <Teltariat> Its a badly abused Celeron powered x86 anti-power house, the exact opposite of a Sun Fire machine.  I thought the name was fitting. :)
[09:39:08] <sparcdr> Hostnames: Uranium (Ultra-20) Xray (Mac), Mustang (SGI), Matchbox: (FreeBSD Jail for) -> domain name: carcinogenic-studios.com
[09:39:23] <Teltariat> noice.
[09:39:41] <sparcdr> which is upgrading to 7.0 so it's not gonna say hi2u... people have been bugging me about downtime :/
[09:40:00] <sparcdr> not in my control, it's hosted by a friend out of florida, I am in California.
[09:40:15] <Teltariat> Hostnames: Anakaris (personal workstation, now defunct), Lightbox (my Mac Mini), Leviathan (storage server), Moonwater, and Sidearm, my laptop.
[09:40:24] <sparcdr> anyways... ON 74 (9/24) and JDS 75 work great
[09:40:33] <sparcdr> Teltariat, lol
[09:40:36] <Teltariat> :)
[09:40:37] <sparcdr> Lightbox?
[09:40:46] <WickedWicky> I just have Lilith, Eva, Medusa and..
[09:40:48] <WickedWicky> pebbles!
[09:40:50] <sparcdr> I'm a nuclear nut btw, if most my hostnames are an indication
[09:41:09] <Teltariat> Mustang must be that new nuclear metal, then. :P
[09:41:14] <sparcdr> matchbox because cigarettes are a carcinogen, and it's a freebsd jail
[09:41:26] <sparcdr> actually, from sun naming convention, jdk 5.0
[09:41:29] <sparcdr> I believe
[09:41:34] <Teltariat> yea, thats it
[09:41:36] <Teltariat> Wait
[09:41:43] <Teltariat> Mustang was 6, no?
[09:41:44] <sparcdr> Might be 6.0
[09:41:48] <sparcdr> right
[09:41:51] <sparcdr> what was 5.0?  tiger?
[09:41:59] <sparcdr> tiger was my former ultra-60 (Quad USII)
[09:42:00] <Teltariat> lol @ WickedWicky: pebbles.  haha
[09:42:17] <WickedWicky> yes yes
[09:42:20] <WickedWicky> it's my sparcstation 20
[09:42:29] <e^ipi> I use names for hell
[09:42:29] <sparcdr> i like sun's naming conventions, dunno why
[09:42:30] * Teltariat doesn't own a SPARC. :(
[09:42:31] <WickedWicky> I couldnt give it a goddess/daemoness name, it's too cute for that
[09:42:34] <sparcdr> they need to come up with new ones
[09:42:41] <e^ipi> hades abaddon gehenna
[09:42:50] <WickedWicky> you're very \m/ e^ipi
[09:42:52] <sparcdr> FlutterFrog for Niagara-II would be great
[09:43:05] <Teltariat> I've got one called Bastion.... whose name doesn't fit it very well 'cause I don't think I've done a decent job of securing it
[09:43:05] <sparcdr> i used to have boxes named the first two
[09:43:19] <Teltariat> Oh crap, I shouldn't've said that here on #opensolaris where the eleet lurk
[09:43:27] <WickedWicky> I am far from eleet
[09:43:34] <WickedWicky> more a clown, to be honest
[09:43:40] <e^ipi> haxors use openbsd
[09:43:45] <Teltariat> If you're a clown, I'm a roach
[09:43:52] <WickedWicky> now now
[09:43:58] <sparcdr> Teltariat, ironically i dont either, no need for it, if i really need access i can ask my friend for access to a T2000, Ultra-60, Ultra-2, or Sparcstation 5
[09:44:01] <Teltariat> I suck badly.  I'm just now learning my way around Solaris, and I still don't know skwat
[09:44:13] <Cyrille> it's not a widely known tool.
[09:44:14] <sparcdr> very nice
[09:44:24] <WickedWicky> its not like I know everything :s
[09:44:29] <WickedWicky> I know how to use google
[09:44:32] <sparcdr> Solaris 10 Extra Cram 2 by Bill Calkins would help more than Sun docs and interwebs
[09:44:33] <Teltariat> lol
[09:44:42] <Teltariat> Extra Cram?
[09:44:45] <sparcdr> not joking, it even covers zones
[09:44:46] <Teltariat> Is it seriously called that?
[09:44:47] <e^ipi> I've got a sparc, i needed it for testing stuff and an undisclosed source hooked me up
[09:44:48] <sparcdr> yes it's for SCSA cert
[09:44:50] <sparcdr> yea
[09:44:54] <Teltariat> Haw
[09:45:14] <WickedWicky> If I had the chance i'd be running MS-DOS 5.0 with dosshell
[09:45:15] <WickedWicky> w00t
[09:45:17] * sparcdr whips #opensolaris, get back to work
[09:45:18] <Teltariat> e^ipi: think you can get Mr. Undisclosed to help l'il ol' poor me out too?
[09:45:21] <e^ipi> no
[09:45:24] <Teltariat> nooo
[09:45:43] <e^ipi> and that's why it's an undisclosed source, because they've got better things to do than field requests for free kit
[09:45:50] <Teltariat> :(
[09:45:51] <sparcdr> WickedWicky, wrong.  you'd die from lack of preemptive scheduling, memory protection, full-featured userland api, and kernel access, as well as dtrace and zfs
[09:46:18] * Teltariat has only recently set up his first zpool..... on an unimpressive single slice...... yay me.
[09:46:31] <sparcdr> yay i have no zfs
[09:46:31] <WickedWicky> dtrace?
[09:46:32] <Teltariat> I don't have enough kit to flex RAID-Z in all its power
[09:46:46] <WickedWicky> why do you think we have spectrum contracts? to do sun's job?
[09:46:49] <Teltariat> I have ony machine, but it makes the lights flicker when I turn it on
[09:46:52] <e^ipi> Teltariat: use files
[09:46:53] <sparcdr> of course WickedWicky to debug your lame ass bash scripts and ascii goat pron application
[09:46:58] <Teltariat> e^ipi: Files?!
[09:47:01] <WickedWicky> and before I get shot with an Uzi, I like dtrace
[09:47:07] <sparcdr> WickedWicky, I have hardcore, I mean hardware only
[09:47:12] <e^ipi> lofiadm(1M)
[09:47:15] <WickedWicky> ascii goat pron is not lame
[09:47:18] <sparcdr> SunSpectrum that is
[09:47:25] <sparcdr> WickedWicky, it needs Dtrace nonetheless
[09:47:27] <e^ipi> just loopback mount a bunch of files and give them to a zpool
[09:47:30] <Teltariat> e^ipi: wait, why use files?!  Isn't a slice always better than using lofiadm?
[09:47:34] <sparcdr> because those goats eat memory
[09:47:44] <WickedWicky> and eachother
[09:47:50] <e^ipi> yes, but if all you've got is a single slice and you want to play around with stuff, you can use files
[09:47:51] <WickedWicky> at least in the pr0n flicks I have
[09:47:52] <sparcdr> more or less
[09:47:54] <WickedWicky> "eat"
[09:47:58] <WickedWicky> anyway
[09:47:59] <WickedWicky> :P
[09:48:07] <e^ipi> by the way, don't start writing random data to the files
[09:48:08] <Teltariat> e^ipi: oh, ok.  Thanks for the suggestion
[09:48:11] <e^ipi> it'll kpanic
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[09:48:18] <e^ipi> eventually anyways
[09:48:31] <Teltariat> I'm waiting for the next disk so that I can mirror it
[09:48:39] <Teltariat> Problem is that some slices are UFS, and one slice is ZFS
[09:48:45] <Teltariat> I'm still new at this
[09:48:57] <Teltariat> so I metadb the UFS bits, and zpool mirror the Zpool slice?
[09:49:05] * Teltariat waits for facedesks
[09:49:06] <WickedWicky> that's what I'd do, yep
[09:49:18] <Gropi> Is that XFS bug one should care about if running opensolaris?
[09:49:24] <sparcdr> i have something called eat my drink and drink my eat, and you can too!  BUT WAIT!  IF you act NOW, Sun will sell you software free of charge for the low cost of your invaluable time.  If you ACT NOW, you can get not ONE, but TWO Sun engineers handle your order requests after first sending your order through six Sun employees.  Not joking, my Ultra-20
[09:49:31] <sparcdr> it changed hands about 5 times
[09:50:09] <sparcdr> Call NOW.  1-888-SUN-LONGTME
[09:50:18] * Teltariat is now learning about Zones, to setup some Zones to act as domain controllers, and one to serve as the NFS/Samba file server
[09:50:37] <Teltariat> The man pages don't seem to provide enough info.  I guess its time for  a trip to the Interwebs
[09:50:45] <sparcdr> ive setup zones on my bunghole, they run an nfs server with probes attached to magical stuff(tm)
[09:50:53] <Teltariat> ooooh
[09:51:00] <Teltariat> Does it involve fairies?
[09:51:03] <sparcdr> damn aliens
[09:51:06] <sparcdr> no, aliens
[09:51:11] <sparcdr> roswell descendants
[09:51:22] <Teltariat> Aw.  They don't sound very pleasant to work with
[09:51:22] <e^ipi> Gropi: solaris doesn't support XFS, so i wouldn't worry about it
[09:51:24] <sparcdr> they brought zfs on their spaceship and sun brought them into their home
[09:51:48] *** Hystrix has joined #opensolaris
[09:52:02] <Teltariat> Well aliens are better than what I've got.  I've got gremlins, thta sometimes pop out of the kernel with wires and memory blocks hanging from their jaws.
[09:52:09] <Teltariat> And I wonder why I get core-dumps all the time.
[09:52:14] <sparcdr> the alien monolith, LiNooKs took their cake away from them, so Sun was forced to restructure their intergalactic spaceship and provide Java to the masses.
[09:52:15] <Gropi> e^ipi: XFS as in X Window System Font Server
[09:52:22] <e^ipi> oh, wrong xfs then
[09:52:24] <e^ipi> dunno
[09:52:26] <e^ipi> ask alan
[09:52:51] * sparcdr is a terrible terror
[09:52:53] <Teltariat> sparcdr: groovy. LiNooKs has been known to do that sometimes.
[09:53:00] * sparcdr pees on #opensolaris
[09:53:17] <Teltariat> Hey now, be civil.  Indulge your fantasies elsewhere
[09:53:24] <sparcdr> sorry coffee is clogging my pipes
[09:53:29] <Teltariat> No golden showers allowed
[09:54:05] <sparcdr> what if they include preemptive block allocation routines and gamma routines?
[09:54:22] <Teltariat> Well alright.  Sounds safe enough.
[09:54:47] <sparcdr> great, you get TWO!
[09:55:19] <Teltariat> #opensolaris has been an excellent source of humor: I remember when I was having trouble trying to find where my disk was in /dev/dsk.  So I asked someone here whether or not I could just write some shell garbage that attempted to mount all the devices altogether.
[09:55:31] <Teltariat> And one dude responded: "Oh, I see: the bukkake method."
[09:55:40] <sparcdr> ouch
[09:55:43] <Teltariat> That one still cracks me up
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[09:56:26] <sparcdr> so where did sir e^ipi and WickedWicky go?
[09:56:35] <Teltariat> Your aliens abducted them
[09:56:42] <Teltariat> You aught to get those guys under control
[09:56:45] <e^ipi> hmm?
[09:56:48] <sparcdr> i told them to add them to the whitelist
[09:56:51] <WickedWicky> I am here
[09:56:54] <sparcdr> oh well
[09:57:05] <e^ipi> white list?
[09:57:09] <e^ipi> seems kinna racist
[09:57:12] <sparcdr> my spam filter involves abducting
[09:57:27] <Teltariat> so does my pf config
[09:57:27] <WickedWicky> had to look for my wallet and show my public transportation card to mr moody (aka the ticket chief on the train)
[09:57:32] <e^ipi> and probes?
[09:57:39] <Teltariat> well, thats another story
[09:57:44] <Berny__> morning folks
[09:57:48] <Teltariat> Morning
[09:57:52] *** Berny__ is now known as Berny
[09:58:03] <e^ipi> Teltariat: your pf config is racist?
[09:58:04] * sparcdr pets #opensolaris, nice puppy
[09:58:26] <Teltariat> e^ipi: it discriminates very heavily against bad packets
[09:58:33] * Teltariat bites sparcdr
[09:58:35] <Berny> hmm, what the heck have they done to docs.sun.com?
[09:58:37] *** unixlust has joined #opensolaris
[09:58:44] <Cyrille> why, is it working?
[09:58:49] <e^ipi> Teltariat: shitcan everything from .ie ?
[09:58:49] <Teltariat> ouch
[09:58:50] <sparcdr> they turned it into a hostile wolf
[09:58:53] <sparcdr> it works if you have meat
[09:58:54] <e^ipi> ( irish need not apply )
[09:59:01] <Berny> cydork: kinda
[09:59:06] <Teltariat> e^ipi: sounds like I good idea; I think I'll add that :)
[09:59:11] <sparcdr> works for me
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[09:59:18] <Berny> they took the the bloody "search collection" feature :-(
[09:59:33] <sparcdr> you know, if you spell sparc backwards you get _____ and add dr to the beginning, you get _______
[09:59:43] *** timsf has joined #opensolaris
[09:59:53] <Teltariat> Wouldn't it be nice if there was a torrent of _ALL_ the docs on docs.sun as a collection of PDFs or something?
[09:59:54] <timsf> morning all
[09:59:59] <Teltariat> g'morning
[10:00:06] <sparcdr> Teltariat, when pigs fly
[10:00:13] *** dmarker has quit IRC
[10:00:14] <sparcdr> hey timsf
[10:00:19] <e^ipi> through a frozen hell
[10:00:24] *** dmarker has joined #opensolaris
[10:00:27] <Teltariat> sparcdr: I think thats what was said a while back when open sourcing Solaris was suggested
[10:00:33] <Teltariat> No one ever saw that one coming.....
[10:00:40] <sparcdr> hahaha
[10:00:41] <sparcdr> i did
[10:00:46] <sparcdr> they had to do it, or die
[10:00:53] <sparcdr> they saw what happened to sgi
[10:00:54] <Teltariat> Thats very true
[10:00:56] <sparcdr> and said HELL NO
[10:00:58] <timsf> What's wrong with downloading the pdfs individually?
[10:00:59] <Teltariat> :D
[10:01:10] <Teltariat> timsf: takes too long
[10:01:13] <sparcdr> timsf, collections should be available, i dont mind per-file
[10:01:16] <e^ipi> isn't SGI a PO box now?
[10:01:20] <Teltariat> aahaha
[10:01:21] <cmihai> What's wrong with using wget -r ?
[10:01:22] <sparcdr> but queuing them is not without effort
[10:01:28] <cmihai> Oh, I'll tell you what.
[10:01:30] <Teltariat> Hey cmihai :)
[10:01:33] <e^ipi> or are they still selling overpriced itanic machines with loonix on them?
[10:01:34] <sparcdr> e^ipi, a shack with a tux plushie on top
[10:01:36] <cmihai> docs.sun.com is slow as hell for some reason, and it takes 3 days
[10:01:43] <sparcdr> of course e^ipi
[10:01:51] <e^ipi> sucks for them
[10:02:04] <sparcdr> i still <3 my octane2, still works with everything, they can lick stuff I won't detail
[10:02:09] <sparcdr> s/crud/crap
[10:02:21] <sparcdr> worst company ever as far as I'm concerned.  YAY a new Novell + IBM
[10:02:22] <sparcdr> :/
[10:02:23] * timsf has fond memories of when we used to ship docs on CDs - spent my first week or so at Sun sitting at a monochrome sparc1 reading AnswerBooks
[10:02:36] <sparcdr> ouch
[10:02:39] <sparcdr> timsf, you old fart
[10:02:47] <timsf> (when I was a lad...)
[10:02:50] <cmihai> They stopped the Answerbook at Solaris 9 or something
[10:02:58] <sparcdr> you're still a lad, with baggage
[10:03:01] <Berny> answerbook was reallycool!
[10:03:03] <timsf> :-)
[10:03:22] <Berny> i still have a sol8 answerbook running :-)
[10:03:23] <Teltariat> Surprise!  I have more stupid neophyte questions!
[10:03:28] <sparcdr> gotta give it to Sun for being all over the place
[10:03:33] <Teltariat> Why are there inittab files in /etc/dhcp?
[10:03:34] <WickedWicky> Teltariat: stop saying that
[10:03:39] <Teltariat> WickedWicky: ok.
[10:03:44] <WickedWicky> if you have a doubt your question is valid
[10:03:47] <sparcdr> because they're magic, I told you that
[10:04:08] <Teltariat> sparcdr: but I don't see the magic aliens you mentioned.  Am I wearing the wrong glasses?
[10:04:16] <sparcdr> no, they hide in smf
[10:04:26] <e^ipi> don't monkey with inittab
[10:04:32] <Teltariat> Trust me
[10:04:33] <Teltariat> I won't
[10:04:40] <sparcdr> fun stuff
[10:04:46] <e^ipi> SMF is a much better way to monkey with things
[10:04:48] <sparcdr> i remember the days of... mmm.  wait.  i dont.
[10:04:49] <WickedWicky> # This file provides information about all supported DHCP options, for
[10:04:49] <WickedWicky> # use by DHCP-related programs.  This file should only be modified to
[10:04:49] <WickedWicky> # add support for SITE options for clients; no existing options should
[10:04:50] <WickedWicky> # be modified.
[10:04:59] <WickedWicky> less /etc/dhcp/inittab
[10:05:00] <sparcdr> WARNING: DONT TOUCH ME, I have ttys
[10:05:01] <WickedWicky> it's written there
[10:05:16] <WickedWicky> that's why you less the file, not vi
[10:05:35] <sparcdr> tail -f /var/adm/messages is a good time
[10:05:37] * Berny mores intead of lesses :-P
[10:05:44] <Teltariat> less ftw
[10:05:47] <sparcdr> Berny, per line is awesome
[10:05:51] <sparcdr> more < cat
[10:05:56] <sparcdr> cat < less
[10:06:00] <sparcdr> and cat > dog
[10:06:06] <cmihai> Most systems don't have less, they have more!
[10:06:19] <sparcdr> cmihai, oh well
[10:06:22] <sparcdr> cant live without less
[10:06:25] <Teltariat> man dog: No manual entry for dog.
[10:06:36] <sparcdr> man woman: No manual entry for woman.
[10:06:39] <sparcdr> :(
[10:06:42] <nightswim> dog is nice too
[10:06:50] <WickedWicky> cmihai: but here only osol is to be mentioned, therefor there is always a less
[10:06:51] <Berny> alias less 'more'  makes it more or less the same :-P
[10:06:56] <Teltariat> :( Where is SUNWdog ?
[10:06:58] <WickedWicky> or.. wait..
[10:06:59] <Teltariat> :p
[10:07:09] <sparcdr> do less with MORE!
[10:07:12] <sparcdr> :p
[10:07:15] <e^ipi> I happen to like more(1)
[10:07:24] <sparcdr> I happen to like licking guis
[10:07:30] <WickedWicky> it definatly is better than p
[10:07:34] <e^ipi> mac user?
[10:07:35] <WickedWicky> guys?
[10:07:37] <WickedWicky> or
[10:07:40] <WickedWicky> GUIs?
[10:07:40] <sparcdr> e^ipi, no
[10:07:44] * WickedWicky summons kawai
[10:07:45] <sparcdr> i was joking
[10:07:46] <Teltariat> lol @ Wicky
[10:07:52] <sparcdr> JDS actually
[10:07:53] <e^ipi> WickedWicky: don't.... don't do that
[10:08:00] <cmihai> WickedWicky, you dolt, you forgot to fast protection from Evil on yourself!
[10:08:11] *** Gekz[sleep] is now known as Gekz
[10:08:14] <cmihai> Now he attacks you for 6d12 negative energy damage!
[10:08:24] <WickedWicky> OH NOES
[10:08:25] <sparcdr> if you were insighting a reference to the OS that not be named, you deserve a stone funeral, with the fishes
[10:08:59] <e^ipi> words can't describe how happy I'll be when this KDE4 stuff works and I can purge JDS from my machines
[10:09:10] <sparcdr> now, I must admit that coffee takes its toll.  you must waste time on coffee when it's gone through a system
[10:09:23] <WickedWicky> you could be me
[10:09:27] <WickedWicky> and go to a meeting now
[10:09:28] <WickedWicky> hoorah
[10:09:31] <WickedWicky> see ya all later
[10:09:37] <Teltariat> Can you put a swap "slice" in a zpool?  I don't have any more space on this device, the rest of it is being used by a zpool.  Can I create a ..... "slice" (or something) in that pool and use it as extra swap?  (WickedWicky told me not to announce that my questions were stupid before asking, so I didn't.)
[10:09:40] <sparcdr> e^ipi, you like having more customizability eh, me too, but as long as it's alien and not supported upon release on OpenSolaris it can burn
[10:09:45] <Teltariat> Night Wicked
[10:09:50] * Berny shall go and get a coffee
[10:09:51] <sparcdr> Teltariat, a swapfile?
[10:09:56] <Teltariat> oh
[10:10:01] <e^ipi> yes, you can
[10:10:01] <Teltariat> with lofiadm?
[10:10:04] <Berny> and than back to try and build that freakin firebird with studio
[10:10:05] <cmihai> Teltariat, eh, yeah, I guess you ca use a swap file in a  ZFS filesystem that lives in a zpool
[10:10:05] <e^ipi> no, not with lofi
[10:10:06] <sparcdr> it's slow and nasty though
[10:10:15] <e^ipi> you can zfs set mountpoint=legacy
[10:10:22] <e^ipi> you'll get a device in /dev for it
[10:10:23] <Teltariat> I been wondering
[10:10:27] <sparcdr> Berny, sure wish we weren't so dependent on GNU toolchain
[10:10:28] <e^ipi> and then you give it to swap
[10:10:31] <Teltariat> what mountpouint= did
[10:10:40] <Teltariat> mountpoint=legacy makes it a block device?
[10:10:43] <sparcdr> libtool/gawk/gless/gsed/pkg-config/gcc burn in hell, slow bastard
[10:10:59] <e^ipi> no, it gives it a legacy mountpoint (managed by /etc/vfstab and friends )
[10:11:03] <sparcdr> it cant get the ladies
[10:11:11] <Berny> sparcdr: besides i don't like libtool and the like the c++ in firebird makes me (and the studio compiler) barf big time
[10:11:18] <sparcdr> eww
[10:11:26] <sparcdr> studios still much better than gcc
[10:11:30] <e^ipi> rather than using the ZFS utils to do it ( zfs set mountpoint=/opt/Pr0n/hentai
[10:11:33] <sparcdr> forgot to mention gmake
[10:11:34] <Teltariat> sparcdr: but the Solaris User Group guys said that Solaris admins have the biggest e-muscles, and thus always got the ladies.  Have I been lied to?
[10:11:46] <sparcdr> Teltariat, yes
[10:11:52] <Berny> right lets find out if studio12 handles that bugger better
[10:11:55] <sparcdr> the tux virus infected women's mind through tuxementation
[10:11:56] <Teltariat> :-(
[10:12:02] <e^ipi> sparcdr: nonsense
[10:12:09] <sparcdr> it wont, we're dependent on gnu make
[10:12:16] <Teltariat> We are?!
[10:12:17] <e^ipi> have you been to a LUG or other linuxy type meet lately?
[10:12:24] <e^ipi> ugly, ugly women
[10:12:25] <sparcdr> no
[10:12:34] <sparcdr> i like the bsd chicks myself
[10:12:34] <e^ipi> now, go to a freebsd type meet
[10:12:40] <e^ipi> bsd chicks are hot
[10:12:41] <Teltariat> Last meet I've been to was the first NY SUG meet
[10:12:42] <e^ipi> *nod*
[10:12:43] <sparcdr> heh funny was thinking of em
[10:12:43] <Teltariat> It wasn't bad
[10:12:53] <sparcdr> SUG.. sounds nasty
[10:12:56] <e^ipi> it's a pretty well known fact that BSD gets the ladies
[10:12:56] <Teltariat> it does
[10:12:57] <sparcdr> like SAGG
[10:13:02] <sparcdr> :((
[10:13:03] <Teltariat> e^ipi: that is truth
[10:13:16] <sparcdr> i <3 FreeBSD, still have a bit of Sun love though
[10:13:19] <Teltariat> C'mon woman, let me jail() you
[10:13:22] <sparcdr> always liked sun
[10:13:29] <e^ipi> sparcdr: seems the common nomenclature is OSUG
[10:13:41] <e^ipi> SV-OSUG, B-OSUG and so forth
[10:13:42] <Teltariat> Its actually spelt NYCOSUG
[10:13:42] <sparcdr> yeah
[10:14:05] <sparcdr> NBUGSUG: Narcotic BSD User Group Solaris User Group
[10:14:10] <Berny> what was the "best" arch flag for a t1 cpu again?
[10:14:17] <sparcdr> mmm
[10:14:23] <sparcdr> i use sparcv9
[10:14:30] <sparcdr> but that's not ideal
[10:14:34] <sparcdr> lol
[10:14:47] <e^ipi> actually -fast is an option
[10:14:50] <sparcdr> fomit-frame-porker
[10:14:58] <e^ipi> it sets -xO4 -native among others
[10:15:00] <Teltariat> I wonder how an Ultrasparc T1 would fare as your typical desktop system
[10:15:08] <cmihai> sparcdr, that's -vomit-frame-pointer, not fomit..
[10:15:11] <sparcdr> much like vomit nasty symbols option
[10:15:11] <e^ipi> Teltariat: terribly
[10:15:12] <Berny> folks... serious... i'm trying to work
[10:15:21] <Berny> don't wanna piss me pants :-P
[10:15:21] <e^ipi> wrong workload
[10:15:24] <timsf> a T2 on the otherhand...
[10:15:27] <sparcdr> me three!
[10:15:32] <sparcdr> T2 = sechs
[10:15:37] <sparcdr> cause fpu limitation went away
[10:15:43] <sparcdr> magic stuff(tm)
[10:15:45] <Teltariat> The T2 did what was it, 8 threads a core?
[10:15:52] <sparcdr> no
[10:15:53] <timsf> http://www.sun.com/processors/UltraSPARC-T2/
[10:16:07] <sparcdr> it's 64 threads, 8 / core x 8 core
[10:16:11] <sparcdr> = sechs
[10:16:12] <e^ipi> Teltariat: it's more a matter that the T1 has a single floating-point unit
[10:16:20] <Teltariat> ouch
[10:16:22] <e^ipi> shared among all the cores
[10:16:27] <sparcdr> and no lightweight threading limitati0on from floating point limit on a socket
[10:16:28] <Teltariat> We talked about that at the OSUG
[10:16:32] <Teltariat> yea
[10:16:33] <e^ipi> which is fine if you're runinng a webserver or database
[10:16:35] <Teltariat> that'll impact things
[10:16:42] <e^ipi> but not a modern desktop
[10:16:45] <sparcdr> e^ipi, paperweight for math use
[10:16:48] <sparcdr> not just desktop
[10:16:53] <sparcdr> encoding for instance
[10:17:03] <sparcdr> some encoders cant handle more than 2 threads without coring
[10:17:19] <Teltariat> sparcdr: "coring"?
[10:17:28] <Teltariat> core dumping?
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[10:17:29] <timsf> the t2 has a n fpu per core, so it should be a bit snappier. Often wondered what it'd be like on the desktop..
[10:17:33] <cmihai> Yeah, it's better to use something like a 4.7Ghz Power 6 for such things.
[10:17:36] <sparcdr> producting nasty core files full of stacktraces
[10:17:44] <sparcdr> cmang, my ps3 works well
[10:17:58] <Teltariat> 4.7 Ghz?!
[10:18:05] <cmihai> Well, they'll have 6Ghz models soon
[10:18:09] <sparcdr> timsf, funny, 8 grand desktop, makes an almost fully loaded Mac Pro look wimpy
[10:18:10] <Teltariat> 0_0
[10:18:18] <sparcdr> and that's a cheap T2
[10:18:28] <sparcdr> my friend has a 17000 dollar config
[10:18:38] <Teltariat> Alright, I feel shamed here
[10:18:51] <sparcdr> he didnt pay it, work colocated it into his room
[10:19:09] *** Fullmoon has quit IRC
[10:19:10] <cmihai> sparcdr, what about the POWER
[10:19:13] <sparcdr> he has business fibre, and doesnt mind the noise
[10:19:20] <Teltariat> So whats the most processor intensive stuff you folks do with that kind of power?
[10:19:23] <sparcdr> POWER is too Loonuxy
[10:19:38] <Teltariat> Is there a BSD port for Power?  NetBSD perhaps?
[10:19:40] <sparcdr> AIX is just nasty, and a copycat
[10:19:43] <Teltariat> FreeBSD too, even?
[10:19:46] <sparcdr> not with good performance
[10:19:48] <sparcdr> SMP that is
[10:19:49] <cmihai> Did they also colo an industrial sized AC, power generator and 10kVA UPS?
[10:19:54] <sparcdr> FreeBSD is making some progress
[10:20:02] <cmihai> Power is Loonuxy? :-)
[10:20:03] <sparcdr> but netbsd's smp support has always sucked, even on x86
[10:20:09] <sparcdr> cmihai, unless you like aix
[10:20:12] <cmihai> Meh, nuts to that, I'll take AIX :_0
[10:20:12] <sparcdr> and can afford it
[10:20:15] <sparcdr> me too
[10:20:16] <sparcdr> still
[10:20:17] <e^ipi> Teltariat: i'm a student... i don't have a lot of power, just a lot of old nifty kit
[10:20:24] <Teltariat> Thing I like most about Net is that it was the first BSD to support Xen
[10:20:26] <cmihai> I love AIX :-)
[10:20:42] <sparcdr> well, yeah
[10:20:46] <Teltariat> e^ipi: I'm just have old kit.  Not even nifty. :(
[10:20:47] <sparcdr> but still has shitty smp
[10:20:52] <sparcdr> especially on SPARC
[10:20:55] <sparcdr> I know from experience
[10:21:18] <cmihai> I even got myself a RS/6000 at home :P
[10:21:19] <sparcdr> i have an ultra-20 myself, doesn't fare well against mentioned products, nonetheless makes a kickass workstation for general use
[10:21:27] <e^ipi> my RS/6000 machine is just a 300mhz POWER3 , my sparc is a couple 900mhz ultra3 Cu's
[10:21:32] <sparcdr> cmihai, can I have a gold toilet?
[10:21:49] <e^ipi> fileserver's a 1.5ghz sempron, etc
[10:21:50] <cmihai> CAN HAZ?
[10:21:51] <Teltariat> cmihai: an RS/6000?!
[10:21:58] <sparcdr> LOLCODE
[10:22:02] <e^ipi> Teltariat: you can pick them up for under $100 these days
[10:22:13] <Teltariat> oh, ok
[10:22:14] <e^ipi> I have one, cmihai has one... *shrug*
[10:22:24] <Teltariat> And run up to what version AIX?  Can it run the most current?
[10:22:29] <cmihai> 5.3
[10:22:31] <e^ipi> 5.3L
[10:22:34] <Teltariat> Also, is AIX free to download if you have an RS?
[10:22:37] <e^ipi> heh, no
[10:22:39] <cmihai> lol
[10:22:40] <cmihai> no.
[10:22:43] <Teltariat> Thats what I figured
[10:22:43] <sparcdr> 6.1 clonified opensolaris stuff
[10:22:48] <cmihai> Yeah
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[10:22:54] <e^ipi> sparcdr: and requires more muscle than I have
[10:23:01] <libkeiser> yeh. it really should be AIX 6.1S
[10:23:04] <sparcdr> requires more money than brains
[10:23:09] <gherdo> hi #opensolaris
[10:23:20] <e^ipi> if I had a POWER4 machine, i'd download the free beta
[10:23:23] <e^ipi> but I do not
[10:23:26] <Teltariat> So if I wanted to learn AIX, and I have the hardware, how much green would I be looking to toss off?
[10:23:29] <Teltariat> Hello gherdo
[10:23:33] * Berny hates c++
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[10:23:47] <libkeiser> i'm pissed.  I've got plenty o' RS64 sitting around, and it's all gonna be stuck at 5.3
[10:23:48] <e^ipi> Teltariat: about $150 or so for the media kit IIRC
[10:23:57] <Teltariat> I see
[10:23:57] <flyingparchment> Teltariat: find a friend who has a copy ;)
[10:23:58] <sparcdr> can has must use thus el bathroomeh
[10:24:00] <cmihai> libkeiser, 5.3 ain't that bad
[10:24:01] <e^ipi> libkeiser: port solaris to it
[10:24:41] <Teltariat> So much stuff to learn.  I don't even know the full intricacies of BSD and Linux, and here I am trying to weather Nevada and friends.  And I'd like to add QNX to the list too
[10:24:53] <e^ipi> meh, unix is unix
[10:24:53] <Teltariat> What do you guys think of the recent open-sourcing of QNX?
[10:24:58] <libkeiser> i do aix kernel module development for a living, think i'll pass on that one
[10:25:03] <sparcdr> uh
[10:25:07] <sparcdr> it's open-sourced?
[10:25:12] <gherdo> just installed latest sxde... what is the first thing should I read?
[10:25:12] <e^ipi> sparcdr: barely
[10:25:17] <Teltariat> They've started the process
[10:25:18] <cmihai> Teltariat, it's not open sourced, it's.. shared source or something
[10:25:19] <sparcdr> it's a RTOS, mainly for x86, it's useless
[10:25:40] <Teltariat> I tried QNX Neutrino a while back.  I thought it was the cat's pajamas.  I must be alone in thinking that.
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[10:25:49] <e^ipi> Teltariat: if you want a real treat, get a login at HP's testdrive VMS machine
[10:26:00] <flyingparchment> i thought qnx had released a little bit of source under a non-free license
[10:26:02] <Teltariat> I've heard funny things about VMS
[10:26:03] <e^ipi> it'll be unlike anything you've ever used before
[10:26:17] <gherdo> uh, oh...  Handy URLs, ok :)
[10:26:18] <sparcdr> RTOS does not belong, and cannot be used outside embedded hardware, it's the target, and they have proved why a pure mach-esc model of microkernels does not work on modern multiprocessor equipment, it must be hybrid or monolithic.  it's also barely functional for anything except traffic systems
[10:26:39] <Teltariat> I see
[10:26:48] <sparcdr> wont effect us, or anyone
[10:26:55] <sparcdr> just nuclear power plants
[10:27:03] <sparcdr> they dont matter, we're better than them
[10:27:14] <Teltariat> heh
[10:27:15] <flyingparchment> e^ipi: if you think vms is weird, you should try ITS ;)
[10:27:18] <sparcdr> we run the governments
[10:27:28] <sparcdr> er Solaris does
[10:27:30] * sparcdr shrugs
[10:27:51] <cmihai> So do I :P.
[10:27:52] <sparcdr> now if sparcdr = true; do stuff; bailoop
[10:28:07] <sparcdr> as to say bah
[10:28:13] <Teltariat> Well, its been a pleasure chatting with you admirable, learned old guard.  I've gotta run; be back later, or if I have more stupid neophyte questions.
[10:28:16] <sparcdr> you bored, me three.  drifint
[10:28:17] <timsf> gherdo, hard to say - what are you interested in ?
[10:28:19] <sparcdr> *drifting
[10:28:21] <Teltariat> bbl :)
[10:28:31] <e^ipi> old guard?
[10:28:42] <sparcdr> im a new... um.  fake-dr
[10:28:45] <Teltariat> Holders of the Tomes of Clue
[10:28:56] <e^ipi> I joined solaris when it became opensource and not a minute beforehand
[10:29:23] <Teltariat> well I'm slow. :)
[10:29:46] <gherdo> timsf: how to upgrade my system and how to install new software(blastwave is ok?)
[10:29:50] <Teltariat> I think they use _me_ as the bad example when they want to show special ed kids what happens when you don't study. :)
[10:30:09] <timsf> http://developers.sun.com/solaris/learning/new2solaris/ is always good, but...
[10:30:11] * timsf digs
[10:30:44] <sparcdr> eh
[10:30:44] <Teltariat> Thanks, Tim
[10:30:47] <sparcdr> hey tim
[10:30:57] <Berny> would anyone happen to know why the error message for some c++ code references some studio includes as source of error? and how would i find the offending statement in the source i'm trying to build?
[10:31:29] <sparcdr> ;p
[10:31:51] <sparcdr> sounds like my experience with microsoft's crap compilers
[10:31:55] * Berny hates c++
[10:31:58] <timsf> http://developers.sun.com/sxde/ looks like another good place to start. After that, the world (or well, docs.sun.com) is your oyster.
[10:32:15] <sparcdr> regular C doesnt cut it for large projects, hate it or not, im sure you'd rather use it then java
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[10:32:24] <gherdo> timsf: ok
[10:32:29] <timsf> no worries.
[10:32:33] <sparcdr> brb
[10:33:05] <gherdo> timsf: now I'm reading http://www.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/OpenSolaris_New_User_FAQ
[10:34:45] <Berny> http://paste.lisp.org/display/48681
[10:35:03] <timsf> That's good too.
[10:35:44] <e^ipi> C++ template matching rules are turing complete
[10:36:08] <Berny> ok?
[10:36:11] <e^ipi> true story
[10:36:26] <Berny> now how do i find the offending line in the crappy source though?
[10:36:33] <e^ipi> regardless, that's one giant ugly template chain
[10:36:57] * Berny nods
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[10:40:16] <e^ipi> I have no idea... I'd solve the problem by compiling it without Cstd and using stefan's libstdcxx stuff
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[10:40:50] <Berny> any pointers to how to do that?
[10:41:50] <e^ipi> http://www.stefanteleman.org/libstdcxx/ <-- in there somewhere
[10:42:06] <e^ipi> is this sparc or x86?
[10:42:29] <WickedWicky> I'm on a mission today
[10:43:58] <PerterB> from God?
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[10:45:57] <Berny> sparc
[10:46:19] <e^ipi> I can send you my copies of libstdcxx
[10:46:28] <flyingparchment> did you try -library=stlport4?
[10:46:34] <e^ipi> or that
[10:46:42] <flyingparchment> (a much more compliant C++ standard library than studio's default)
[10:47:31] <WickedWicky> PerterB: no, myself. my mission for today is make someone cry and go home
[10:47:37] <WickedWicky> and to never come back
[10:47:44] <Berny> i'll give stlport a shot and failing that try to build libstdcxx
[10:47:49] <e^ipi> a particular person ?
[10:47:58] <WickedWicky> yep
[10:48:21] <e^ipi> Berny: libstdcxx is apache's thing
[10:48:21] <Berny> HA!
[10:48:30] <Berny> stlport does the trick
[10:48:39] <flyingparchment> Berny: complain to studio people that it should be the default ;)
[10:48:46] <e^ipi> and it should be stable
[10:49:01] <e^ipi> it's explicitly not stable
[10:49:12] <e^ipi> ( i mean stable as in "will not change" not as in "crashy crap" )
[10:49:13] <trochej> WickedWicky: Just agre that you made me cry, go home and die under my desk. Your mission is done
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[10:49:34] <WickedWicky> that wouldnt make me get rid of my biggest annoyance here in the office
[10:49:56] <WickedWicky> who got hired alledgedly with a lot of experience
[10:49:58] <WickedWicky> but doesnt know shit
[10:50:17] <WickedWicky> xcept talking about audies
[10:50:20] <WickedWicky> audis
[10:51:00] <e^ipi> the trick to getting revenge is to leave the target entirely alone, but destroy everything they love and cherish most
[10:51:32] <e^ipi> eg, don't beat him up, have his kids beaten up and make sure he knows it wasn't just a schoolyard fight
[10:53:11] <Berny> yuck
[10:53:28] <Berny> no the bugger fails on a source file that compiled before (without stlport)
[10:53:38] <Berny> did i mention i hate c++?
[10:54:00] <flyingparchment> there's plently of bad C code around too
[10:54:18] <PerterB> s/C//
[10:54:22] <Berny> but for me that is easier to fix :-P
[10:54:29] <e^ipi> it's not the languages fault that Sun's compiler team hates it and won't just bloody follow standards and stabilize the interfaces
[10:54:51] <flyingparchment> you might just use gcc, IMHO it's really a better C++ compiler than studio
[10:55:05] <flyingparchment> although 4.x is better than the 3.x that ships with solaris
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[10:55:35] <e^ipi> not as well optimized code though is the problem
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[10:56:25] <Berny> 1. gcc optimization on T1 isn't that grand
[10:56:48] <Berny> 2. that crappy source only compiles with gcc 3.x not with gcc 4.x
[10:57:05] <flyingparchment> e^ipi: at the same time, they could replace the frontend with EDG ;)
[10:57:18] <Berny> 3. i already have a gcc build... but that stuff crawls... wanna see if it's better with studio
[11:02:05] <flyingparchment> so i asked this yesterday, but no-one had an answer.. i have an iscsi lun (4.8T infortrend) that veritas won't see.  i tried addjbod and addforeign.. even when it would appear in 'vxdisk list', it just listed as 'error'.  how can i find out why vx won't open it?  (or fix it?)
[11:02:21] <palowoda> flyingparchment: I've been using gcc 4.2.0 and a combination of the x01 and athlon64 switches give good results.  Now Ultrasparc is still questionable with gcc.
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[11:04:46] <palowoda> flyingparchment: Isn't one of those proprietary things with Veritas and Symantec that they (as in Symantec) haven't been keeping up with?
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[11:05:54] <palowoda> Why would someone care about Veritas on an opensolaris channel to begin with?
[11:08:59] <PerterB> because the signal to noise ratio is often better than #solaris ;) (except during our regularly scheduled license rants)
[11:10:05] <PerterB> interesting to note though, we see plenty of Sun engineers but I don't remember anyone on either channel ever admitting to working for Symantec
[11:10:43] <e^ipi> why would one admit to working for symantec?
[11:10:44] <palowoda> PerterB: Not really not much of any useful help is the combination of Symantec's software and OpenSolaris.  Gee man if Symantec wanted to play the game why wouldn't they have an engineer or two at least talking about the problems here.
[11:11:28] <palowoda> Maybe Symantec is PO'ed about zfs or something.
[11:11:36] <PerterB> maybe
[11:11:43] <flyingparchment> hmm, "Device path not valid" - maybe it just doesn't like iscsi
[11:12:34] <palowoda> Doesn't Symantec and Veritas have some support channel?
[11:13:11] <PerterB> flyingparchment: I assume this is 10u4? if it's one of the solaris express releases I'd imagine all bets are off anyway
[11:13:20] <flyingparchment> PerterB: U3
[11:13:25] <PerterB> 'k
[11:13:56] <palowoda> Crap my cat just brought me a mouse in the office for thanks.
[11:14:09] <PerterB> I'm guessing they just haven't caught up with iscsi yet
[11:16:26] <flyingparchment> or they caught up in 5.0 .. which hasn't been released for solaris x86 yet ;)
[11:16:46] <PerterB> sounds plausible
[11:17:50] <palowoda> But do you think Symantec cares about x86 to begin with?
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[11:19:11] <palowoda> Gross now the cat is chewing up the mouse.
[11:20:53] <madhatter> palowoda: *yummi*
[11:21:09] <palowoda> By the way Symantec had never any really intention of fully supporting new versions of Solaris.
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[11:25:49] <palowoda> madhatter: Never trust a cat that likes you.  One time she tried to bring a foot long roof rat in the office as a gift and it was still alive.
[11:31:03] <WickedWicky> that's the ultimate showing of respect!
[11:31:04] <WickedWicky> awwwwww
[11:31:10] * WickedWicky sheds a tear
[11:33:25] <quasi> our cat used to catch birds for us instead
[11:36:40] <quasi> madhatter: if you're looking for marvell controllers, .nl might be an option - at least I've been able to find the 8-port supermicro controller there
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[11:40:37] <palowoda> I don't know about location but another alternative to sata controllers is Areca which supports Solaris in general. http://www.areca.us/
[11:40:42] <quasi> madhatter: http://www.gigaserver.nl/product_info.php?cPath=55_207&products_id=564 is first hit on google
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[11:45:26] <palowoda> I guess LSI, Marvell, and Areca are the three major vendors that have decent 8 port or more controllers in the x86 space for Solaris.
[11:46:10] <ofu> areca is probably too expensive
[11:46:27] <palowoda> Yeah they are up there in the 600 USD range.
[11:46:42] <palowoda> But what they have 24 port cards.
[11:48:09] <palowoda> Err maybe 16 ports per card.
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[11:49:29] <quasi> still not a very good deal compared to an 8 port controller at $100ish if you have the spare slots
[11:50:33] <palowoda> Hmm, do the cheap 8 port have onboard cache usally?
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[11:51:47] <quasi> nope - but then paying for onboard cache probably isn't all that smart if you're going to be using zfs anyway
[11:51:50] <palowoda> What is a kicker is try and find a 16x pci-e sata controller.
[11:52:07] <JWheeler> why would you need 16x?
[11:52:28] <JWheeler> oh, do you mean the ports?
[11:52:31] <palowoda> Oh that is right you only need 1x sorry.
[11:52:32] <dlg> to compensate for something else in his life?
[11:52:49] <quasi> ;)
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[11:54:24] * dlg would like a marvell sata controller
[11:55:56] <palowoda> The new Rock processor desgin is 16bits internal to prevent any ego problems with Sun in the future too.
[11:57:44] <palowoda> oh :)
[11:58:17] <ofu> 16port sata-controller?
[11:58:35] <ofu> perhaps you should think about a backplane-based solution using quadlane sas-cables
[11:58:42] <ofu> makes cabling much easier
[11:58:43] <palowoda> Old news I guess.
[11:59:23] <quasi> or alternatively - buy a thumper and pull out the controllers ;)
[12:00:31] <ofu> sure... but my desktop has no ht-slots to plug in this strange board
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[12:01:28] <JWheeler> It all depends how flash you want to be I guess
[12:01:48] <JWheeler> I'm using an 8 port pci-e sata card, but my server came with a scsi cage
[12:02:14] <JWheeler> I made my own drive cages... sure, it's not hot swap, but it's one hell of a good whitebox NAS
[12:02:52] <ofu> i wish electricity was cheaper
[12:03:45] <quasi> yeah, would be nice to be able to run an 880 at home
[12:04:21] <ofu> ah, zpool scrub just saved my day, great
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[12:29:22] <JWheeler> Hi Folks, I have a C question if I may; I'm trying to get xine-lib compiling on solaris 8. A lot of the ffmpeg code makes reference to uint_fast32_t and other int_fast*_t friends. Solaris 10 has these defined in /usr/include/sys/int_types.h, while solaris 8 doesn't
[12:30:53] <JWheeler> My C understanding is very poor, but I have found that if I just copy and paste the various int_fast32_t lines across into the main ffmpeg header file on solaris 8, it works, but I really don't know that what I'm doing is right, and in the case of the fast64_t I see that there is a fork of some description - I had to comment out the #ifdefs to make it work
[12:31:32] <JWheeler> could someone explain for me what these are - I believe they were once descibed to me as macros, but I'd really like to hear again what they are, and if the code is portable enough to be just yanked around as I'm doing.
[12:31:49] <JWheeler> It is at least all CDDL, I checked that much at least :)
[12:35:54] <PerterB> yeah, those types are from the C99 standard which came after Solaris 8
[12:36:55] <JWheeler> Ok. So that's called a 'type'?
[12:37:12] <PerterB> you can probably just cut and paste, but that assumes the same #defines exist on sol8 as sol10 which may not be true... Ideally figure out which typedefs are actually used on sol10 and just paste those definitions
[12:37:26] <Vanuatoo> when I lock the screen there is a text, Warning: Dir: /usr/X11/lib/xscreensaver/hacks is missing, will not run hacks. What the hack is this?
[12:38:20] <PerterB> yeah, in C a typedef line defines a new basic type based on some existing one(s)
[12:38:21] <cmihai> I think that's the xscreensaver SUN hacks for PAM. Or not.
[12:38:46] <Vanuatoo> the point is that I cannot run screensaver
[12:38:51] <cmihai> truss it
[12:38:57] <LeftWing> hacks are the programs that display the "screensaver" part of xscreensaver.
[12:39:10] <LeftWing> i.e., the graphics apps.
[12:39:30] <Vanuatoo> could it because of my PATH?
[12:39:44] <cmihai> No, I doubt that. Did you do a full install? Is that stuff there?
[12:39:47] <LeftWing> Well is the directory actually there? :P
[12:39:53] <Vanuatoo> no :)
[12:39:58] <JWheeler> When you say the ones that are actually used, do you mean within the context of the application that I'm trying to compile?
[12:40:07] <Vanuatoo> I did custom install | developer group | default packages
[12:40:16] <PerterB> when there's no hacks, doesn't it just blank the screen? or would that be too obvious......
[12:40:34] <Vanuatoo> It blanks the screen and unlock dialog is displayed
[12:40:49] <JWheeler> within the libavcodec source folder just a "grep _fast* *.c"?
[12:40:50] <Vanuatoo> I don't understand, if the xscreensaver is installed why hacks are not?
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[12:41:21] <cmihai> do you have SUNWxscreensaver-hacks?
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[12:42:02] <cmihai> grep "xscreensaver/hacks" /var/sadm/install/contents
[12:42:02] <cmihai> /usr/X11/lib/xscreensaver/hacks d none 0755 root bin SUNWxscreensaver-hacks SUNWxscreensaver-hacks-gl
[12:42:02] <cmihai> /usr/X11/lib/xscreensaver/hacks/anemone f none 0555 root bin 78872 30708 1174663290 SUNWxscreensaver-hacks
[12:42:03] <cmihai> etc
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[12:42:29] <cmihai> Looks like you missed installing that stuff. Should have done FULL + OEM install :-). Well, just pop in the DVD and install SUNWxscreensaver-hacks*
[12:42:40] <Vanuatoo> on my way
[12:42:51] <PerterB> I guess someone made a packaging decision that if you only install the developer stuff, you don't want to waste disk space on eye candy... seems reasonable to me
[12:43:07] <Vanuatoo> PerterB: That seems very odd to me
[12:43:27] <PerterB> why? you still have a screensaver, don't you?
[12:43:35] <PerterB> it's just not pretty
[12:43:49] <Vanuatoo> It's not a screensaver
[12:43:56] <cmihai> Sure it is.
[12:44:04] <Vanuatoo> just a second I'll explain
[12:44:05] <cmihai> Blank screen is actually the best kind of screensaver :P
[12:44:12] <Vanuatoo> There is no blank screen
[12:44:22] <Vanuatoo> There is a black screen with the unlock dialog
[12:44:31] <Vanuatoo> I don't think it's saving screen
[12:44:31] <PerterB> Vanuatoo: you sure? doesn't the dialogue diappear after 60s?
[12:44:38] <cmihai> Well, just install that stuff then.
[12:44:46] <cmihai> "saving screen" is so 1980s
[12:44:55] <Vanuatoo> Wasting space sounds very silly
[12:44:58] <cmihai> Well, unless you have a plasma :-)
[12:44:59] <Vanuatoo> In these days
[12:45:14] <PerterB> Vanuatoo: then install the whole OS and stop whining! :)
[12:45:25] <JWheeler> it's the uint_fast64_t that's worrying me, if I have #ifdef  _LP64, then it's typedef unsigned long           uint_fast64_t;, if I have #if defined(_LONGLONG_TYPE) then it's typedef unsigned long long      uint_fast64_t;. Seemingly neither of those defs are firing though... which should I force?
[12:45:27] <Vanuatoo> PerterB: I don't want the whole OS
[12:45:31] <cmihai> Why not?
[12:45:38] <cmihai> You save say.. .300MB
[12:45:43] <Vanuatoo> I don't need servers etcetera
[12:45:46] <cmihai> And waste 6 hours trying to figure out crap
[12:45:47] <Vanuatoo> I'm a developer
[12:45:51] <cmihai> They aren't started by default mate.
[12:46:01] <cmihai> They just take up disk space. Not very much either.
[12:46:12] <Vanuatoo> So you're saying that if I'm developer I should not enjoy graphic
[12:46:16] <cmihai> Beats having to fetch depends and install stuff by hand...
[12:46:17] <Vanuatoo> or listen to music?
[12:46:27] <cmihai> Huh
[12:46:42] <cmihai> What does that have to do with doing a FULL SETUP + OEM?
[12:48:00] <PerterB> JWheeler: you have it working on sol10? take one of the compile commands from there and run it in cpp mode, eg change gcc -c blah to gcc -E blah, you'll get shedloads of output, grep it for the type you're looking for
[12:48:22] <Vanuatoo> The strange thing is that Developer group is on top of End User. So that means I guess that hacks are missing also from enduser group
[12:48:27] <cmihai> Besides, even developers might need a ssh server, a webserver, a ftp server, an application server if they do say.. Java and so on.
[12:48:36] <Vanuatoo> What is the justification in this case?
[12:48:37] <cmihai> Look, to hell with those groups.
[12:48:45] <cmihai> Just pick full install
[12:49:02] <Vanuatoo> cmihai: That's is the easy way of solving things
[12:49:05] <PerterB> what he said
[12:49:22] <Vanuatoo> Maybe just admit that there is something wrong with the packaging decision?
[12:49:50] <cmihai> Vanuatoo, you don't get it do you. Solaris isn't Linux, it's a whole OS. And besides, packaging decisions aren't PERFECT.
[12:49:55] <cmihai> They can't fit every possible role.
[12:49:57] <cmihai> Or your needs.
[12:50:07] <PerterB> for some values of "wrong"... Your opinion of what a developer or an end-user needs are different from the people who made those choices... big surprise
[12:50:40] <cmihai> And installing additional packages _after_ that is a time consuming process.
[12:51:16] <cmihai> Solving depends, looking for media, all that. Just do a full install. The difference between a full and a developer install is like 1GB
[12:51:20] <cmihai> What's that now, 1$?
[12:51:21] <Vanuatoo> cmihai: I'm a java developer. I've installed SXDE to do NetBeans+Glassfish development and I don't need any of the packages from the Full install group so far
[12:51:35] <Vanuatoo> cmihai: Difference is in time
[12:51:36] <PerterB> apart from the xscreensaver hacks, you mean?
[12:51:39] <cmihai> Is the time you spend installing additional packages only worth 1$?
[12:51:57] <cmihai> So what?
[12:51:58] <cmihai> They don't run.
[12:52:01] <cmihai> They don't waste memory.
[12:52:04] <Vanuatoo> It seems that solaris installer is damn slow despite of what hardware do you have
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[12:53:42] <mihaic> Huh, did Freenode die or something
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[12:54:00] <Vanuatoo> I don't think so
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[12:54:06] <cmihai> Odd.
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[12:54:35] <cmihai> I had to change servers by hand to kornbluth, chat.freenode.net wasn't responding. Oh well.
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[13:12:48] <cmihai> blogs.sun.com - Maintenance No blogs for you!
[13:12:48] <cmihai> lol?
[13:13:37] <quasi> no lol, just fact - they do that from time to time
[13:14:03] <cmihai> Nah, I meant the "no blogs for you" thing :-)
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[13:16:17] <PerterB> cute
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[13:30:04] <sickness> m
[13:31:18] <sickness> I'm back
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[13:54:17] <trochej> Uhm, remind me, what the command line tool to register solaris system for updates?
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[13:56:48] <trochej> ok, got it
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[14:01:16] <Berny> hmm, is it me thinking supid or is there a problem with the stlport and cmd line arguments? a simple int main(int argc, char *argv){printf "%d\n", argc);} gives me a zero no matter how many argument i pass on the cmd line?
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[14:05:54] <Berny> bugger
[14:06:27] <Berny> if i link the binary using cc instead of ld it works... did i miss a switch for ld?
[14:08:11] <sommerfeld> you're probably missing a library or three that cc adds before invoking ld
[14:09:02] <PerterB> and crt0.o
[14:09:11] <Gropi> you should put that in the topic for now: http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=556
[14:09:22] <Berny> hmpf
[14:09:31] <Berny> how convenient
[14:09:36] <Berny> i love libtool
[14:09:45] * PerterB shudders
[14:09:53] <Berny> .oO(export LD=cc)
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[14:20:28] <JWheeler> Hmm, on my system xfs is disabled. I'm on nevada, but U4 isn't that different is it?
[14:23:41] <madhatter> Ok, next try. I just ordered a noname Sil3114 S-ATA controller. I hope this will work with OpenSolaris now
[14:24:29] <sommerfeld> JWheeler: it's disabled by default in new installs post secure-by-default.
[14:25:16] <sommerfeld> But older builds enabled it by default and upgrade doesn't disable it.
[14:25:24] <JWheeler> ah, I see
[14:25:37] <JWheeler> so it's still going to be pretty widespread, gotcha
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[15:00:33] <andyshack> Does a 220R need RAM in it to output something on initial boot via serial console ?
[15:00:45] <the-decider> some, I think so.
[15:01:11] <the-decider> it also usually takes a 220R a minute to spew some console stuff (in case you're impatient)
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[15:01:54] <andyshack> Yeah this is spewing out garbage after ive pulled 77% of its ram. maybe i fired something with static ? I checked the cable on another machine and its fine.
[15:02:16] <the-decider> garbage eh?  Like, lots of it?
[15:02:25] <andyshack> Yep
[15:02:56] <the-decider> baud rate mismatch? ;)
[15:03:22] <CIA-26> jjj: 6493513 changing password (in files repository) dumps core when libumem is in effect
[15:04:04] <andyshack> nah, I dont think so although i'll double check. using default solaris 10 settings and tip hardwire, works with another 220R.
[15:04:24] <gherdo> what is the default filesystem in opensolaris (b73)?
[15:04:32] <gherdo> ufs? zfs?
[15:04:50] <quasi> I'm pretty sure it is still ufs
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[15:05:11] <gherdo> quasi: thanks
[15:05:28] <quasi> gherdo: zfs boot is still not quite perfect yet
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[15:19:47] <Triskelios> has anyone observed a two-minute delay starting nscd when mdns is enabled?
[15:21:16] <Triskelios> this seems to manifest itself as a two-minute delay logging into JDS vermillion_74 or 75
[15:21:34] <Triskelios> well, the panel shows up but nautilus doesn't for a long time
[15:22:07] <andyshack> Ah! Ram in wrong bank causes a 220r to crap itself.
[15:22:25] <quasi> andyshack: no real surprise
[15:22:48] <andyshack> I thought i had fried it.
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[15:26:19] <Triskelios> kszwed: hey hey
[15:26:26] <kszwed> heya Trident
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[15:26:28] <kszwed> err
[15:26:31] <kszwed> heya Triskelios
[15:26:33] <kszwed> =)
[15:26:47] <sommerfeld> andyshack: that matches my experience.  IIRC they have 16 DIMMS slots.  two of them are offset strangely
[15:27:23] <the-decider> 220r's are rather decent workhorses.
[15:27:31] <sommerfeld> be extra-careful installing dimms the slots around the "skew".
[15:27:58] <the-decider> and the 220R & 420R are the choice of many pirates.
[15:28:38] <Gekz[PDA]> yarr
[15:28:50] <the-decider> ;)
[15:29:27] <sommerfeld> (once inadvertantly removed a surface-mount component from one dimm when it got caught on the extractor lever of the adjacent skewed slot...)
[15:29:32] <andyshack> yeah when i stripped the ram i left it in those askew banks thinking they were prolly bank 0, checked docs then and its #4
[15:30:53] <andyshack> sommerfeld : yeah I can see how that can happen. It's close.
[15:31:55] <axisys> anyone know if I can slam in a srss 4.0 as the secondary sunray server to srss3.1 which is the primary server and only server?
[15:31:56] <Gekz[PDA]> I got my Solaris 10 dvds
[15:32:06] <Gekz[PDA]> 4 months after i ordered them
[15:32:10] <Gekz[PDA]> lol
[15:32:18] <Gekz[PDA]> today
[15:32:19] <axisys> does it have to be same version srss?
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[15:38:11] <andyshack> Thas pretty slow, I ordered opensolaris and solaris about 4 months ago and got them both within 4 weeks to .au
[15:40:17] <kszwed> axisys, from my knowledge, srss doesn't support mixed version operation in a failover instance
[15:41:11] <axisys> kszwed: ok.. thnx
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[15:45:19] <andyshack> Ah if i reset the open boot prom to default, does default include "just boot" ?
[15:46:07] <jamesd> it should...   if not   do   setenv auto-boot? true
[15:46:14] <jamesd> then type  boot disk
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[15:46:30] <andyshack> heya james, thanks for that!
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[15:46:53] <jamesd> i'm heading out the door in 5 minutes
[15:47:02] <andyshack> yeah cool im on it.
[15:49:56] <andyshack> Nice, set-default worked. Enjoy the R n R!
[15:52:48] <Fish> hello
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[16:36:58] <tomww> countdown to the cec :-)
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[16:48:26] <sayaka> hello
[16:48:43] <sayaka> how can i give a new user root permissions ?
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[16:51:04] <nachox> sayaka:  you probably want RBAC instead, check the security related user guide of solaris 10
[16:51:53] <sayaka> what manual
[16:53:44] <sayaka> RBAC??
[16:54:05] <sayaka> can you please refer me to the document?
[16:55:59] <PerterB> usermod -P 'Primary Administrator' username, if you're sure that's what you really want to do
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[16:58:33] <nachox> err, let the guy read the damn documentation
[16:59:21] <PerterB> he'll still need to
[16:59:28] <PerterB> but now he knows what to look for
[17:00:25] <nachox> course he wont, docs.sun.com is broken again ;)
[17:01:48] <g4lt-mordant> nachox, isn't that like saying "the sky is blue"
[17:01:53] <nachox> sayaka: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-4557/prbactm-1?a=view
[17:02:32] <sayaka> PeterB: I just dont want to be switching to root everytime i do a major change, i would like to do those from my user (since i am root too)
[17:02:50] <Berny> get a +
[17:03:03] <nachox> that is a bad idea
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[17:03:19] <nachox> you shouldnt need to do "major changes" every day
[17:03:41] <nachox> and running things as root all the time is uncool :)
[17:03:46] <Berny> you're not root (or nowhere near) but prefixing your cmd line with + makes wonders happen ;-)
[17:04:23] <Berny> time to cook dinner
[17:04:28] <PerterB> sayaka: http://blogs.sun.com/darren/entry/opensolaris_rbac_vs_sudo_howto
[17:04:41] * Berny needs a break from building firebird...
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[17:07:11] <Pietro_S> how howto can be A vs B ?
[17:08:00] <nachox> cool darren's blog murders my firefox :)
[17:08:41] <PerterB> Pietro_S: well, the slant of that howto is "how to do sudo things with RBAC instead", so easily... but it covers what sayaka asked and more
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[17:10:53] <holcomb> fss is neat
[17:11:40] <Triskelios> nachox: having issues with Flash?
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[17:12:20] <Triskelios> Berny: the DB library?
[17:12:38] <nachox> Triskelios: i'd bet so, yes
[17:13:25] <Pietro_S> PerterB: from the name- I would guess something like comparing sudo and rbac ..., but I surely didn't want to offend you
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[17:17:02] <PerterB> why would it offend me? :)
[17:18:14] <Triskelios> it's not that great as a comparism...
[17:18:49] <PerterB> like I said, it isn't a comparison, it's how to do (some simple) sudo things with RBAC instead
[17:22:35] <nachox> sudo's config file is more human readable if you ask me :)
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[17:29:15] <vega|> Hi
[17:29:26] <vega|> I have Sun V 440 SPARC server
[17:29:58] <vega|> Is it possible to do virtualization ? I want to run Solaris 9 & 10 in virtualization mode
[17:30:06] <vega|> It has 4 GB ram
[17:30:18] <vega|> How about zones & containers ? Anybody did this before ?
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[17:32:30] <sickness> maybe you could try with the solaris8 compatibility enabled containers... I don't know if they are already included in latest opensoalris bits...
[17:33:28] <vega|> Hmmm
[17:33:36] <vega|> How about solaris 9 ?
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[17:36:30] <vega|> Hi @wesolows
[17:36:31] <sickness> I don't know...
[17:36:43] <vega|> Which version u currently running ?
[17:37:57] <sickness> vega|: http://blogs.sun.com/dp/entry/etude_progress_update
[17:38:09] <sickness> vega|: project etude, I think it focuses mainly on solaris 8
[17:38:17] <vega|> thanx
[17:38:23] <PerterB> s/mainly/only/ as far as I can tell
[17:38:30] <vega|> oh
[17:39:06] * the-decider chuckles and thinks -- SunOS 4 branded zone? ;)
[17:40:11] <nadir> whats the equivalent of lsof -i on solaris?
[17:40:15] <nadir> say using netstat
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[17:41:31] <nadir> I want to see whats bound to what ports
[17:41:33] <kjetilho> sickness: my local Sun rep says it will be released officially this month.  Solaris 9 support is next year.
[17:41:37] <Triskelios> what does the -i option do?
[17:41:37] <Triskelios> ah
[17:41:57] <kjetilho> you can walk through all processes and run pfiles on them
[17:42:10] <Triskelios> netstat -an
[17:42:24] <kjetilho> Triskelios: won't tell you the process
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[17:42:35] <Triskelios> oh, right
[17:44:12] <nadir> pfiles is quite verbose
[17:44:14] <nadir> could take some tiem
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[17:45:52] <nadir> for i in $(ps -ef |grep -i x  |awk '{print $2}');do pfiles $i |grep port;done
[17:45:56] <nadir> works for me
[17:45:57] <nadir> thanks
[17:46:22] <nadir> in preting to find all xen related network bound services
[17:46:56] <PerterB> cd /proc ; for i in *; do pfiles $i | grep port; done ;)
[17:47:44] <sickness> not bad
[17:48:47] <nadir> aye same
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[17:50:32] <nadir> ok I got to go thanks, laters
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[18:00:30] <CIA-26> zk194757: 6596819 vds does not implement DKIOCFLUSHWRITECACHE for files-exported-as-vdisks
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[18:02:08] <master_of_master> hi, is it possible to remove a complete raidz2 from a zpool?
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[18:15:01] <_setuid_H> Is zfs-boot (x86) support shipped in solaris10-u4?
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[18:19:34] <stevel> _setuid_H: no
[18:19:52] <_setuid_H> ok
[18:19:53] <_setuid_H> thanks
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[18:23:33] <timsf> mast_of_master nope - you can't shrink zpools. You could replace each component of the raidz, one at a time however. (though I haven't tried this, it should work fine)
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[18:24:33] <Fish-> hello
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[18:25:53] <_setuid_H> Fish: hy
[18:25:55] <_setuid_H> hi
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[18:59:15] <balajirrao> hello guys
[18:59:52] <balajirrao> i just installed solaris now and i am not able to access internet
[19:00:15] <balajirrao> the problem is with nameservers
[19:00:24] <CIA-26> ab196087: 6610591 do_reloc() should not require unused arguments
[19:00:50] <PerterB> those pesky nameservers, always causing problems
[19:00:57] <balajirrao> when i type the ip address directly in the browser it comesup
[19:01:18] <balajirrao> i included the required nameservers in /etc/resolv.conf
[19:01:27] <balajirrao> as nameserver <...>
[19:01:35] <balajirrao> is the syntax wrong ?
[19:01:55] <jmcp> balajirrao: in /etc/nsswitch.conf, you need the "hosts:" line to have "files dns" rather than just "files", then you need to run    svcadm restart name-service-cache dns/client
[19:01:58] <e^ipi> no, the problem is you need to make sure nsswitch.conf is set up for it
[19:02:12] <e^ipi> yes, do what jmcp says
[19:02:32] * jmcp wonders wtf he's awake and online @ 0300 on a saturday morning
[19:02:50] <PerterB> jmcp: waiting for the rugby? :)
[19:02:57] <balajirrao> jmcp, ok.. i will try it and get back to you!
[19:02:58] <PerterB> except that's some way off
[19:03:17] <jmcp> PerterB: Australia vs England is in 20 hours :)
[19:03:21] <jmcp> nah, just couldn't sleep
[19:03:24] <PerterB> also, I thought nscd was smart enough to notice when nsswitch.conf changed?
[19:03:34] <PerterB> jmcp: I know
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[19:05:13] <jmcp> re nscd - it might be, but I don't think it hurts to whack it just to be sure
[19:05:51] <PerterB> fair point, it certainly used to be traditional to whack it often back when it was....newer
[19:07:36] * the-decider reads benr's post on "project indiana" and is more confused than he was before. ;)
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[19:23:19] <Teltariat> Can grub read directly from ZFS?  Do you still need that small UFS /boot partition?  ie., can we now place root and /boot directly in ZFS?
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[19:23:55] <nachox> Teltariat: nope, you dont need ufs
[19:24:06] <Teltariat> Oh snap, really? :D
[19:24:22] <e^ipi> it's not an automagic thing with the current installer
[19:24:29] <Teltariat> I know
[19:24:38] <Teltariat> The guides I've seen so far advocate a small UFS /boot
[19:24:48] <Teltariat> btw, g'morning e^ipi, nachox
[19:24:54] <Teltariat> I mean, good afternoon
[19:24:59] <timsf> No need - http://opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs/boot
[19:25:08] <e^ipi> still morning on the west coast
[19:25:19] <Teltariat> No UFS needed.  That is pure conquest.
[19:25:24] <timsf> timf@cranialtrauma[499] df -h /
[19:25:24] <timsf> Filesystem             size   used  avail capacity  Mounted on
[19:25:24] <timsf> tank/snv_70b            19G   4.6G    12G    28%    /
[19:25:33] <Teltariat> wow
[19:25:45] <Teltariat> Thanks folks
[19:26:14] <holcomb> when lu starts using snapshots and clones, that'll be conquest
[19:26:51] <Teltariat> lu?
[19:26:56] <holcomb> liveupgrade
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[19:26:57] <timsf> Yep - it's more sort of "we've got them on the run" at the moment..
[19:27:10] <Teltariat> But certainly quite a moment
[19:27:27] <timsf> being able to maintain multiple zfs boot environments even now is fantastic.
[19:27:50] <Teltariat> Can you specify to GRUB to boot into different "datasets" within the Zpool?
[19:27:56] <Teltariat> From within the GRUB bash shell?
[19:28:10] <Teltariat> I guess menu.lst...
[19:28:12] <timsf> Yep.
[19:28:39] <Teltariat> So on the same machine, you can try out different snv builds, update4, this, that.... thats awesome.
[19:28:56] <timsf> Well, not u4 since it's not zfs-boot capable,
[19:29:08] <Teltariat> Theres always got to be one downer
[19:29:09] <timsf> and the upgrade tools don't understand zfs boot,
[19:29:25] <Teltariat> How come brands isn't in recent Nevada builds?  Or am I mistaken?
[19:29:28] <timsf> but certainly, you can have multiple boot environments, with different bfu archives on each...
[19:29:44] <timsf> BrandZ ? It's there.
[19:29:54] <Teltariat> heh.  I'm still noobpoop.  I haven't done the BFU stuff yet.
[19:30:10] <e^ipi> don't bfu
[19:30:16] <e^ipi> bfu is for developers and lunatics
[19:30:22] <Teltariat> heh
[19:30:23] <e^ipi> i'm not sure which category i fall in to
[19:30:42] <timsf> even without bfu, you can snapshot/clone your root dataset, poke about with one, and be sure that you can fall back to a working one if you screw things up.
[19:30:54] <timsf> lunatic.
[19:30:57] <Teltariat> My C skills are about as sharp as a Fisher-Price toy, so I guess I'd just fit in with the lunatics group
[19:31:06] <timsf> right - better dash
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[19:31:15] <Teltariat> :)
[19:31:31] <Teltariat> But thats cool
[19:31:34] <e^ipi> liveupgrade is the reccomended method of upgrading
[19:31:35] <Teltariat> Thats really awesome
[19:31:43] <e^ipi> BFU will prevent you from ever upgrading again
[19:31:44] <Teltariat> I don't think enough people realize just how awesome that is
[19:32:39] <Teltariat> e^ipi: I'd have to understand the details of the BFU process before I can fully get what you're referring to
[19:32:50] <Teltariat> A BFU effectively "freezes" you how?
[19:33:01] <e^ipi> bfu wipes out the package database
[19:33:06] <Teltariat> holy
[19:33:07] <Teltariat> ouch
[19:33:09] <e^ipi> or makes it meaningless in either case
[19:33:19] <Teltariat> Thats not cool
[19:33:21] <e^ipi> you can still add/remove packages as per normal
[19:33:28] <Teltariat> Yea but you have no history
[19:33:33] <e^ipi> but the system stuff doesn't mean anything
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[19:34:13] <e^ipi> so if you later want to liveupgrade or do a regular upgrade with the CD's, tough ... not gonna happen
[19:34:27] <e^ipi> your option is from then on out, only BFU
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[19:34:49] <Teltariat> I see
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[19:35:20] <Teltariat> Thank goodness I ran into you then, because I thought that that was the process needed to move up versions.
[19:35:22] <Triskelios> I managed to do an in-place upgrade on ZFS boot
[19:35:32] <Triskelios> posted to the zfs-discuss list
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[19:36:42] <Teltariat> Triskelios: If I wanted more information, whats the thread subject I should Google for?
[19:37:28] <Triskelios> zfs sxce upgrade
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[19:38:35] <Teltariat> Thanks Trisk
[19:38:46] <Triskelios> I have not tried with a snapshot, although in theory that should work with some modifications to the script
[19:39:45] <Teltariat> In the perspective of regular UFS partitions, doesn't it make sense to only have separate partitions for /, /var and a HUGE one for /usr, making a /usr/opt and symlinking /opt to that?
[19:40:07] <Teltariat> Since /opt 's stuff ~kind of~ classifies as the stuff you'd find in /usr ?
[19:40:29] <Teltariat> Excuse my stupidity if thats an idiotic suggestion: remember, I'm noobpoop.
[19:41:21] <WickedWicky> traditions say that /opt is used for additional packages
[19:41:26] <WickedWicky> like Linux uses /usr/local
[19:41:49] <WickedWicky> evening all by the way
[19:41:58] <Teltariat> Greets Wicky :)
[19:42:13] <WickedWicky> I just had the best kebab of my life
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[19:43:33] <Teltariat> I could use one too, right about now
[19:43:38] <Teltariat> Gotta run, bbl
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[19:56:29] <madhatter> quasi: Too bad that those seem to be PCI-X :( My board is three years old, there is no PCIX on it yet.
[19:58:37] <madhatter> quasi: But I will give another Sil3114 noname controller a chance. If that won't work I have been thinking about upgrading the whole box. But I just realized that today there are often no two pata ports onboard and that AGP seems to be dead, too. It's not getting better ;)
[19:59:54] <wesolows> the death of PATA and AGP is nothing but goodness
[20:00:09] <wesolows> PCI and PCI-X are effectively dead too
[20:00:25] <CIA-26> davemq: 6605701 UltraSPARC-T2+ atomic backoff has a bug causing performance regressions
[20:00:52] <madhatter> wesolows: Not when you would like to upgrade. I now will have to replace everything. ;)
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[20:01:05] <madhatter> wesolows: What's the next? PCIe?
[20:01:05] <wesolows> Yeah, that's the downside, always.
[20:01:12] <wesolows> PCIe is the current standard.
[20:01:19] <wesolows> or the 100%-compatible PCIe2
[20:01:57] <madhatter> wesolows: I remember times when you had nothing onboard and were able to extend the box by brand new isa devices
[20:02:02] <madhatter> (Ohmygod=
[20:02:09] <madhatter> s/=/)
[20:02:14] <wesolows> PCI-X is now used mainly in legacy/transition hardware (like cards with PCIe-PCI bridges that have PCI chips behind them, until the integrated-PCIe version comes out)
[20:03:05] <wesolows> PCIe is much faster, but the real win is MSI.
[20:04:15] <madhatter> Thanks for the hint. Maybe I can keep that in mind when I really will upgrading. The only issue I have is that I often heard that people are booting there boxes from CD to load sata drivers and stuff only to get rid of ide. And I really like to have two ide disks (booting) and a cd-rom.
[20:05:52] <wesolows> I have all-SATA systems that work fine
[20:06:01] <wesolows> so I don't understand the attraction to PATA/IDE
[20:06:11] <quasi> madhatter: yeah, agp graphics are darn expensive nowadays
[20:06:14] <e^ipi> the drives are cheaper
[20:06:30] <wesolows> cheaper than SATA?!  SATA is dirt cheap
[20:06:44] <quasi> wesolows: the attraction would be the 10 or 15 old drives I have
[20:07:05] <wesolows> if they're that old they'll likely fail soon anyway
[20:07:18] <madhatter> wesolows: Here there is no difference in the prices between ide and sata.
[20:07:24] <quasi> but sure, I sure as hell wouldn't buy pata today even if it is cheaper
[20:07:55] <wesolows> yeah...I have a machine that still has PATA drives; they work fine and I'm not actively looking to replace them, but if they fail I'll buy SATA instead
[20:08:00] <madhatter> wesolows: Maybe when I someday get my sata disk running, I might add a second and try to boot from it. If this works I will migrate with no look back.
[20:08:21] <wesolows> I've never had trouble booting from a SATA disk
[20:08:52] <madhatter> I just heard from people having to boot from cd instead first. But maybe that's just a windoze issue
[20:09:03] <wesolows> Probably
[20:09:12] <quasi> besides, getting pata >500G is hard
[20:09:28] <wesolows> On Solaris you either get SATA-Legacy mode, which Just Works, or you have support in the sata framework for native mode, which also Just Works.
[20:09:52] <madhatter> If you have the right chipset. :)
[20:10:41] <wesolows> Well, "legacy mode" is supposed to work with all
[20:10:51] <wesolows> maybe there are broken chipsets out there; I could see that being bad :-)
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[20:12:00] <madhatter> Dunno, I had a Sil3114 chipset on a Promise controller and that did not want to work at all.
[20:12:12] <wesolows> promise stuff never works
[20:12:19] <wesolows> broken promise
[20:12:46] <quasi> I've seent things where turning off hw raid on the sata was impossible
[20:13:38] <TrogL> question about projects.  if I put an entry into /etc/project (using projmod) concerning eg. process.max-sem-nsems, it doesn't display with prctl -i project.  It does with prctl -n.
[20:13:46] <madhatter> quasi: That's the issue with my onboard Sil3112 controller ;)
[20:13:47] <TrogL> How do I confirm that parameter is changed for that specific project?
[20:14:11] <TrogL> Hi Keith
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[20:16:07] <quasi> madhatter: at least as far as nv56, my 3112 doesn't work either - but there's also nv on the same board so I've not tried too hard
[20:17:53] <sommerfeld> TrogL: are you sure you don't mean project.max-sem-ids
[20:17:54] <sommerfeld>  ?
[20:18:06] <TrogL> there's no such parameter
[20:18:26] <TrogL> errr, is there?
[20:18:32] <madhatter> quasi: By nv56 you mean snv56? It got me confused with nv chipset here
[20:18:56] <sommerfeld> it's in the list printed when I run  "prctl -i project user.sommerfeld" on snv_74
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[20:20:11] <TrogL> it's specfically max-sem-nsems I'm interested in .  it's a semaphor thing
[20:20:33] <sommerfeld> i'm out of my depth.  sorry. only thing i'm setting is project.cpu-shares
[20:20:35] <Triskelios> quasi: we've been using 3112s since around snv_52...
[20:20:45] <Triskelios> madhatter: no way to reflash it, I guess?
[20:21:50] <sommerfeld> oh, i see what's going on.  process.* doesn't show up in prctl -i project
[20:22:27] <sommerfeld> but they do turn up in "prctl -i process $$"
[20:22:35] <sommerfeld> for a process in each project
[20:27:25] <madhatter> Triskelios: Never tried, but as the board is that old I have not much hope. But I will look at Asus homepage
[20:28:00] <TrogL> sommerfeld: got it..   prctl -n process.max-sem-nsems -i process $$
[20:28:17] <master_of_master> hi, is there a list of compatible hardware? I need to know if a Promise Ultra 100 Tx2 works on *solaris (x86)
[20:29:23] <madhatter> master_of_master: I learned hard that Promise does not work in general ;)
[20:29:35] <madhatter> master_of_master: But there is a hcl online
[20:30:02] <madhatter> master_of_master: http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/
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[20:30:18] <TrogL> we had Promise on Solaris 8.  worked, but geez we blew a lot of drives
[20:30:44] <TrogL> expensive...propreitary...drives
[20:31:09] <TrogL> ZFS is your friend
[20:32:01] <master_of_master> thx
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[20:38:28] <bda> Man. Ordering a new system today. Do I want a 4100 or a 4150?
[20:38:31] <bda> Awful, awful decisions.
[20:38:39] <Berny> hey laca
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[20:38:56] <laca> hey Berny
[20:38:58] <Berny> .oO(did i mention how much i hate c++?)
[20:39:19] <Berny> .oO(did i mention that firebird has probably the worst c++ ever?)
[20:42:06] <yofuh> no, i guess you don't
[20:42:49] <Berny> you guessed wrong :-P
[20:43:30] <ottom> axisys: re your question five hours ago, you can run a mixed-version SRSS group but you're only supposed to do it as a transitional measure. You should plan to get both servers to SRSS 4.0 soon.
[20:43:39] <Berny> why for the love of god would one "hide" 3800 lines of code inside a extern "C" {}?
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[20:45:05] <yofuh> Berny: it's a bad world, isn't it?
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[20:45:42] <sparcdr> hey
[20:46:23] <Berny> re sparcdr
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[20:59:16] <axisys> ottom: u still around?
[20:59:26] <axisys> ottom: i have some followup questions
[21:01:37] <axisys> i have srss 3.1 running on a v440 as only sunray server.. can I add srss 4.0 on T2000 and add that as secondary server w/o dropping any users connections?
[21:02:18] <axisys> and then make that t2k / srss 4.0 as the primary server w/o any session drop ?
[21:03:05] <axisys> and switch the current v440 / srss 3.1 to a secondary server
[21:03:20] <axisys> all w/o dropping any user session
[21:04:27] <axisys> also i created a gm signature on the primary.. do I also need to sync up admin password? i am root but i am not sure what I setup the admin passwd.. is it the one in utadmin.pw file?
[21:06:54] <agliodbs> anyone know a motel near Sun's Santa Clara campus?
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[21:10:46] <quasi> agliodbs: there's good rail links right next to suns campus - you might not need to stay that close
[21:11:30] <quasi> (or at least there was in 2001 and no, I don't remember the name of the motel I stayed at then ;)
[21:12:28] <ottom> axisys: you might be able to do that if you're very careful and very lucky, but I wouldn't count on it.  Why do you want to move the primary role to the new machine?
[21:13:17] <palowoda> Biltmore Hotel seems the closest.  2151 Laurelwood Rd Santa Clara CA 95054 408-988-8411
[21:13:47] <palowoda> Santa Clara Marriott is a few more miles down the road.
[21:14:05] <quasi> not quite motels
[21:14:06] <ottom> axisys: you can recover the password from the 3.1 machine's utadmin.pw file, it's just rot-13'ed.  The protection comes from the permissions on the file, not from how it's represented in there.
[21:14:24] <agliodbs> quasi: I have a car
[21:14:31] <palowoda> Holiday Inn on Great America Parkway, 408-235-8900
[21:14:55] <agliodbs> quasi: it's just I'm presenting at 9:45, and I'd rather not start the morning with 2 hours of bad traffic
[21:14:56] <quasi> actually, I think that might be where I stayed
[21:15:03] <agliodbs> cool, thanks!
[21:15:08] <palowoda> The hotels I quoted are about 2 to 3 miles from the campus.
[21:15:19] <quasi> agliodbs: which makes rail links even nicer
[21:15:41] <agliodbs> quasi: last I checked, Caltrain is > 2mi from campus
[21:16:40] <palowoda> Actually the light rail is only about a mile from the campus over on 1st street.  You could get to hotels down in San Jose from there.
[21:17:00] <agliodbs> ah, ok
[21:19:26] <quasi> yeahl the light rail
[21:20:10] <quasi> I remember using it from the motel and getting a trip around sun an cisco on the way
[21:21:06] <palowoda> The light rail stop closest would be at the corner of 1st Street and Monteague Expressway.  It's not to bad of a walk from there.
[21:21:14] <Triskelios> has anyone had success running xulrunner/mozilla/firefox trunk on sxce?
[21:21:33] <agliodbs> palowoda: I think I'll be a bad environmentalist and take my car
[21:21:37] <agliodbs> and stay somewhere near campus
[21:22:14] <palowoda> Cheaps probably Holiday Inn, those other hotels can really get expensive.
[21:26:25] <agliodbs> palowoda: will, I'll try travelbahn
[21:26:54] <agliodbs> thsi is for the Sun Employee Open Source Summit
[21:27:34] <agliodbs> where I'll spend from 9:45-10:30 explaining how we're doing everything wrong ;-)
[21:27:39] <Triskelios> does that coincide with the OpenSolaris Summit?
[21:27:46] <Triskelios> or is that this week?
[21:27:47] <agliodbs> Triskelios: immediately after
[21:27:52] <Triskelios> ah
[21:27:57] <agliodbs> that is, OSOL summit, then Sun summit
[21:28:07] <agliodbs> the open source summit is just for Sun employees
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[21:29:25] <Triskelios> I gathered that from the name
[21:30:10] <palowoda> Shesh only 45min, must be the condensed version. :)
[21:30:28] <agliodbs> palowoda: yeah, I've been hacking it down
[21:31:56] <axisys> ottom: the new server is t2k
[21:32:06] <axisys> ottom: versus current one is v440
[21:32:24] <axisys> t2k is actually should work lot better for sunray
[21:32:39] <axisys> that is why i want to make the new one as primary server
[21:33:04] <axisys> ottom: so u r saying it is better just to do it during maintenance window?
[21:33:10] <ottom> axisys: I wouldn't count on that.  Lots of apps are singlethreazded and they feel slower on a T2K.
[21:33:32] <axisys> ottom: well also it has twice as much memory
[21:34:29] <axisys> just to give u an insider my sunray users crave for mmeory .. no issue on cpu side as a matter of fact
[21:34:38] <ottom> I'm saying it's easier and safer to leave the V440 as the primary, and just run the T2K as secondary.  The DS doesn't use many resources.
[21:35:15] <ottom> OK, if your apps are memory-limited then that might outweigh the slower single-threaded performance
[21:37:10] <axisys> well the utadmin.pw shows  flf@qz1a
[21:37:16] <axisys> so what would be the password?
[21:37:41] <ottom> umm, now everyone here knows your SRSS admin password.
[21:37:52] <axisys> ottom: does not matter
[21:37:58] <axisys> ottom: it is in private network
[21:38:10] <axisys> i know the risk .. that is why i posted here
[21:39:33] <ottom> really?  OK, then run it through " /bin/tr '[a-z][A-Z]' '[n-z][a-m][N-Z][A-M]' "
[21:39:49] <axisys> ottom: yep..
[21:40:21] <axisys> cool!
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[21:41:09] <axisys> ottom: ok so I installed srss 4.0 latest on t2k
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[21:41:58] <axisys> if i run utconfig on server B (new) will it affect current (server A primary - v440) sunray sessions?
[21:43:19] <ottom> no, it won't affect any sessions on the existing server.  It will make B eligible to accept new sessions, so if you aren't ready for that then take it "offline" first by doing 'utadm -f'
[21:44:05] <axisys> ottom: so utadm -f ; utconfig ?
[21:44:30] <ottom> yes
[21:46:22] <axisys> i noticed on server A utadm -l shows i took the whole class C .. but 81 or 255 are assigned.. can I tell it to change it to half the block.. so I could use the other half for server B?
[21:46:44] <axisys> 81/255 that is
[21:49:09] <ottom> you can use 'pntadm' to see what address have been leased out on that subnet by the existing server
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[21:50:23] <ottom> you can then use 'pntadm' to delete a chunk of unleased addresses.  But be careful, 'utadm' assumes that all of the leasable addresses are in a contiguous range so you need to remove addresses only from one end of the current range
[21:51:01] <ottom> and of course you'll need to remove the address that will be assigned to the new server
[21:52:04] <axisys> ottom: thanks a lot
[21:53:35] <ottom> if you want to make the change using only 'utadm' then you could do that but it would involve disconnecting (but not losing) all existing sessions so you'd want to do that out-of-hours
[21:58:16] <axisys> ottom: ok
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[22:01:39] <axisys> just curious .. how do u go by making the new one promaty and current one secondary? utreplica  can do all that?
[22:01:51] <axisys> s/promaty/primary/
[22:03:24] <ottom> yes, utreplica can do that.  But you have to restart SRSS after making that change, so there'll be some disruption.
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[22:05:32] <axisys> ottom: gotcha
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[22:18:28] <gdamore> very nice.  load average over 9, on this 4 way core 2 system (2.6GHz) doing a Solaris build, and the UI is still quite responsive.  none of those stalls that I used to see on the older single core Ultra 20.
[22:20:50] <cmihai> Well, duh :P
[22:21:13] <Bartman007> doh, Solaris killall != FreeBSD killall
[22:21:18] <Bartman007> hehe.
[22:21:19] <sommerfeld> haha
[22:21:47] <cmihai> gdamore, now divide that by 8 to get the real overload
[22:22:01] <cmihai> Bartman007, no, but Solaris pkill = BSD pkill :P
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[22:22:09] <cmihai> killall is more of a Linuxy thing
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[22:24:23] <cmihai> gdamore, oh, only a 4 cores. I thought you had 4 dual cores. Oh well, still nice.
[22:24:47] <gdamore> no, its a single socket system, 4 cores total.  I'm quite happy with it though.
[22:25:21] <gdamore> using ZFS with zbringover/turbo_dir.flp makes life really nice.  Plus the mirror helps with perf.
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[22:26:09] <gdamore> i probably should update the HCL with this system's configuration.... plus I have two other systems to record... (a laptop unit, and a Dell Precision 390)
[22:26:46] <cmihai> gdamore, uptime
[22:26:47] <cmihai> 14:04  up 32 days,  4:22,  4 users,  load average:
[22:26:47] <cmihai> 149.86, 149.73, 149.63
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[22:27:01] <gdamore> what kind of system?
[22:27:14] <cmihai> Aplha GD1280, Tru64 UNIX
[22:27:23] <gdamore> yikes.
[22:27:34] <cmihai> Quite responsive :-)
[22:27:36] <cmihai> 64 way system btw
[22:27:41] <gdamore> heh.
[22:28:15] <gdamore> gnome on my old U20 (1.8GHz) would frequently "stall" if I loaded up the CPU.  this new machine doesn't have that problem.
[22:28:29] <cmihai> Yeah, the new Core 2 stuff is great.
[22:28:38] <cmihai> 8MB cache does help a lot though :-)
[22:28:42] <gdamore> (so much so, that I now am happy to use it to do full builds, instead of doing the NFS thing to a different system...)
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[22:30:08] <cmihai> Erm, GS1280 (that was a typo) :P.
[22:31:41] <cmihai> It's funny, but I still think the Alpha can kick the newest Itanium's ass.
[22:32:04] <gdamore> at Intel's Developer Forum this year, Itanic was nowhere to be seen.
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[22:32:23] <cmihai> 1.3Ghz EV7 CPUs still trashes any Itanium CPU
[22:32:59] <gdamore> I think Intel has given up on ia64.  So NetBSD should have it booting soon now. :-)
[22:33:09] <cmihai> hah :-)
[22:33:25] <cmihai> NetBSD running on superdome. Yeah. Right :-). That would be a blast.
[22:33:46] <cmihai> An undead OS running on a half-dead platform. How very fitting.
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[22:36:54] <cmihai> Wow, this new yahoo AJAX mail thing doesn't suck.
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[22:41:17] <sleepcat> can one see all failed ssh logins?
[22:41:56] <sleepcat> and if one can see all failed ssh logins, can one block a host from trying more than 3 times to login?
[22:42:40] <cmihai> 1) Yes, check your auth log 2) only for that session, check sshd_config.
[22:43:02] <cmihai> 3) Move ssh to another port and all the brute force from Russia, with love will go away
[22:44:28] <sleepcat> what does it mean only for that session?  can I create a iptables rule that would somehow notice when an IP has too many bad logins and block that ? And also if a user account has more than 3 failed, to also block?
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[22:44:36] <gherdo> hi ppl
[22:44:56] <davemq> hi gherdo
[22:45:01] <sleepcat> i was reading something about tcpwrappers.  Is that something i would use to accomplish this?
[22:45:18] <Triskelios> sleepcat: we use a script called blockhosts that manages this automatically
[22:45:49] <cmihai> sleepcat, iptables?
[22:45:55] <cmihai> Go back to Linux :P
[22:46:02] <sleepcat> ipfilter or whatever sunscreen...
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[22:46:12] <wesolows> ipfilter, surely
[22:46:22] <wesolows> sunscreen is long dead, thankfully
[22:46:23] <gherdo> uhm... ok... my emacs setup runs properly on my fresh installed b73. good.
[22:46:23] <sleepcat> or is that fire engine...
[22:46:30] <cmihai> No, that's the network stack.
[22:46:35] <wesolows> fire engine is just the name for the tcp and ip rewrite
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[22:46:55] <Triskelios> cmihai: tcp wrappers is a standard userspace library, see hosts_acces
[22:47:00] <Triskelios> er, man hosts_access
[22:47:09] <cmihai> why are you telling me
[22:47:44] <Triskelios> oh, I thought you were saying that in response to the tcp wrappers statement
[22:47:49] <cmihai> No.
[22:47:53] <gherdo> now I'd like to connect to my router using wpa2.
[22:48:14] <Triskelios> I must've just unconsciously ignored the line about iptables, hah
[22:48:46] <axisys> i need to access the java webconsole to access the CAM .. i am thinking installing a light browser on the server and then ssh -X to the server and run the browser.. any bettwe way to access the CAM on a remote site?
[22:48:57] <cmihai> Triskelios, yeah, I tend to ignore iptables too :-P
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[22:51:14] <Triskelios> sleepcat: blockhosts is most certainly what you want
[22:51:35] <sleepcat> Triskelios: is blockhosts safe and well written software?
[22:52:16] <cmihai> No ;P
[22:52:22] <cmihai> Like I said, why worry?
[22:52:33] <cmihai> There's NO chance of brute forceing a ssh key :-)
[22:52:49] <sleepcat> it seems insecure to just randomly download and install software from sourceforge
[22:52:52] <cmihai> And if you move ssh to another port, it stops ALL random attempts.
[22:53:07] <sleepcat> cmihai: nothing that nmap wouldn't detect
[22:53:19] <cmihai> Right. And then what?
[22:53:22] <ottom> axisys: ssh -X is the easiest way.  The alternative is to configure the web GUI to allow access from a (your) remote IP address, in which case you should also configure it to use SSL instead of plaintext HTTP.  ssh is much easier.
[22:53:25] <cmihai> Brute force your ssh key?
[22:53:33] <cmihai> For the next 2^128 years?
[22:53:44] <sleepcat> and then just run random passwords until they get it right.
[22:53:49] <cmihai> Right.
[22:53:54] <cmihai> Until the end of the universe.
[22:54:11] <sleepcat> they can just use rainbow tables and probably get it in a day or two
[22:54:18] <cmihai> Especially since it times out after 3 wrongs.
[22:54:21] <cmihai> They can't use rainbow tables
[22:54:24] <cmihai> THINK
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[22:54:38] <reflect> evening
[22:54:41] <cmihai> If they could use rainbow tables they'd be able to do it locally.
[22:54:47] <cmihai> They would only need to ssh once.
[22:54:50] <reflect> is there any way to check for a boot sector on a disk?
[22:55:05] <sleepcat> currently my sun box doesn't lock anything out after failed attempts at ssh
[22:55:15] <cmihai> Not that hashes are even involved. Or that And tables won't work with salted hashes.
[22:55:16] <sleepcat> AFAIK
[22:55:35] <cmihai> Or that you could make a table of ssh keys.. it would fill up a ZFS filesystem :P
[22:55:44] <ottom> axisys: BTW, we're talking about the SRSS web GUI here, right?
[22:56:15] <reflect> it would appear that I have two disks (or more) with a boot sector on them causing the system to seemingly hang at boot
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[22:57:12] <axisys> ottom: well actually no.. java webconsole.. to configure the attached 6140 using CAM
[22:57:22] <axisys> ottom: i am all over the place .. hehe
[22:58:21] <ottom> axisys: ah, OK, nevermind, I can go back to sleep then.  (Actually I can go for lunch, getting hungry here.)
[22:59:12] <axisys> ottom: I wish u hang out here tomorrow night 11pm EST.. that is when I am adding the second sunray .. hehe
[22:59:34] <axisys> ottom: thanks again btw
[22:59:51] <Triskelios> sleepcat: blockhosts is a few hundred lines of Python that should be easy to audit, the only potentional problem I can think of is that it uses lock files for synchronisation
[23:00:19] <CIA-26> baban: 6612672 idmapd needs to hardcode more built-in name2sid entries because AD doesn't for all of them
[23:00:20] <CIA-26> mjnelson: 4861635 typo in SUNWmdu/depend file, 6331114 _msg target builds will lead to nightly failures when building libmeta.so.1, 6530068 devfsadm makefiles need some minor cleanup
[23:00:21] <CIA-26> ts143224: 6591494 if iscsi target deletee one of two created target, another one is also deregistered from isns server
[23:01:16] <cmihai> Did I mention the fact that using brute force to crack ssh keys is a computationally infeasible problem, even with the miracle of quantum computers?
[23:02:26] <Triskelios> cmihai: it presents a huge annoyance for people reviewing logs
[23:02:46] <cmihai> I actually consider it a good thing.
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[23:03:06] <cmihai> If the guy takes his time to nmap or try another port then 22, he clearly is a human and NOT an automated attack.
[23:03:16] <cmihai> Hence I want to keep an eye on him, NOT filter him out.
[23:03:19] <ottom> axisys: sorry, I'm pretty sure I'm already booked for tomorrow evening.  I'll be around on Monday, ping me if anything weird happens tomorrow.
[23:03:39] <cmihai> There's something about automagick firewall rules that just doesn't sound right to me.
[23:03:50] <reflect> Triskelios: you might want to look into a term called "artificial ignorance".. may help you in your log reviewing. if you find the concept interesting, I have a script that could help you out
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[23:05:00] <cmihai> Nothing a simple awk or a overly complex and expensive Oracle database can't fix :P
[23:05:04] <axisys> ottom: cool .. thnx a lot
[23:08:34] <axisys> ottom: so ssh -X to the box and then run a browser ? what is a light browser?
[23:08:52] <cmihai> axisys, what network connection are you ON?
[23:08:53] <eclix_> axisys: lynx
[23:09:07] <cmihai> lynx doesn't support Java, JavaScript or has a GUI...
[23:09:24] <cmihai> axisys, Opera and Firefox will work just fine if you have a good internet connection.
[23:09:50] <cmihai> And again, I've done Oracle installs over modem via ssh -X :P. So it really depends on your patience.
[23:10:12] <axisys> cmihai: hehe.. ok ff it is.. installing
[23:10:30] <cmihai> axisys, should already be in Solaris if you did a JDS install
[23:10:36] <cmihai> if not, Opera is much... lighter.
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[23:16:36] <agliodbs> who's organzing the OpenSolaris day at FOSS.In?
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[23:17:32] <g4lt-mordant> you are, now
[23:20:34] <agliodbs> heh
[23:20:46] <agliodbs> well, I went ahead and submittd the BOF anyway
[23:21:30] <axisys> cool i got it working thru ssh port forward
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[23:21:52] <axisys> ssh -N -f -g -R 9876:127.0.0.1:6789 user@remotehost
[23:22:00] <axisys> i am in front of the remote host
[23:22:12] <axisys> so https to the forwarded port wokred
[23:22:17] <axisys> worked*
[23:23:48] <axisys> i said it too early.. it gave u the gui to access the java webconsole.. but then java redirect failed
[23:25:15] <axisys> anyone know what is the default account for java webconsole?
[23:25:31] <axisys> or is there way to reset it? i am root
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[23:37:47] <axisys> is there a way I can reset the password? I am root in the box
[23:38:36] <gdamore> use "passwd" ?
[23:39:46] <cmihai> axisys, who was the irresponsible sod who gave you root? :P
[23:40:27] <sleepcat> cmihai: at least he can't do this in solaris 10 : rm -r /
[23:40:42] <cmihai> No, but he can /* :P
[23:40:57] <axisys> gdamore, sleepcat, cmihai ok slow down guys
[23:41:02] <sleepcat> cmihai: you shouldn't have said that!
[23:41:05] <axisys> i am talking about java webconsole
[23:41:47] <axisys> i were able to login as me.. but i wanted to login as root.. i know root password.. duh .. but  it is not taking it
[23:42:06] <sleepcat> axisys: i had the same problem with CUPS
[23:42:17] <sleepcat> the damn thing wouldn't take the root password!
[23:42:17] <axisys> this is strictly java webconsole.. not OS passwd
[23:42:36] <gdamore> web-based administration.  Puke.  Use /bin/sh.  Or /bin/tcsh. or whatever. :-)
[23:42:49] <axisys> gdamore: hey man.. i am setting up CAM
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[23:42:55] <axisys> gdamore: it is simpler that way
[23:42:57] <cmihai> "root in the box" :-))
[23:43:27] <axisys> sleepcat: only u seem to got my point.. cmihai is there to get me.. heh
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[23:44:30] <cmihai> axisys, for you: http://xkcd.com/169/
[23:45:12] <reflect> is there anyway to check which disks in a system who has a boot block on them?
[23:45:15] <bubbva> hrm, don't see putback messages scrolling here anymore - maybe stevel made that happen
[23:45:21] <bubbva> anyways, elfsign is now more open
[23:45:28] <axisys> cmihai: :-(
[23:45:31] <stevel> bubbva: nope
[23:45:34] <stevel> they come from the CIA bot
[23:45:43] <stevel> which iirc buffers and prints every half hour or something
[23:45:48] <sommerfeld> seems to take a while before CIA gets it
[23:45:59] <stevel> .. but in any case, congratulations. glad to hear elfsign is open now
[23:46:02] <stevel> :-)
[23:46:07] <bubbva> mostly...
[23:46:43] <bubbva> as much as we could do right now, we want to do more later, but this is certainly better!
[23:47:28] <jbk> afternoon
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