[00:00:18] <jpdrawneek> any body about who is any good at jumpstart?
[00:00:19] <CIA-26> ap25164: 6605219 tzmon should not use SCCS keyword in user-visible string
[00:00:50] <tomww> madhatter: in short: mark your importatn zfs filesystems for automatic backup
[00:01:19] <tomww> then stick in your USB-stick or USB-Disk and habe the zf-filesystems backuped, ether full or incremental, as necessary
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[00:01:43] <madhatter> tomww: oic, thanks for the info
[00:02:05] <jbk> evening
[00:02:38] <madhatter> jbk: Hey there
[00:02:44] <tomww> madhatter:  http://tinyurl.com/36nj2c  and follow the links to Tim Fosters blog entry to read the original story
[00:02:59] <madhatter> tomww: I'll do that
[00:05:19] <sommerfeld> tomww: need to do a network-based version of that for my laptop
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[00:05:48] <tomww> yes, that was the first thought for me too.
[00:06:16] <tomww> tke the laptop onto the local network, have the backup-sink detected and zoooom backup starts
[00:06:52] <tomww> Tim is thinkin also on a networked version, see the blog comments.
[00:08:09] <tomww> from my playing with avahi (native version, not the bonjour-mix), I know that announcing network-services with multicastDNS is only one line in a eparate configfile.
[00:09:35] <tomww> so, with Tim's dbus script, we would have to look for mDNS announcements of such backupservers (to have as less configuration to do as possible, except security)
[00:10:36] <timsf> evenin' all - glad you like the backup thingy
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[00:11:07] <timsf>  - minor thinko in your blog post tomww (thanks for the packaging btw - much appreciated!)
[00:11:12] <tomww> timsf :-) I like it that much, that I packaged it as SFEzfs-auto-backup :-)
[00:11:30] <timsf>  - the verbose property is an SMF prop, rather than a zfs user property, so set it in the manifest, or via svccfg
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[00:12:59] <timsf> wrt. backups on the network, I'd have thought you really want the client to know exactly where your data is going though
[00:13:08] <tomww> just thinking from where I picked the commands (you refer to the commands or the text?)
[00:13:13] <timsf> rather than have rogue backup servers advertising themselves...
[00:13:32] <timsf> I think it was your blog post -
[00:14:24] <timsf> "zfs set com.sun:zfs-verbose=true zfs/tmp" should be "svccfg -s svc:/system/filesystem/zfs/auto-backup setprop zfs/verbose = boolean: true"
[00:14:38] <tomww> depends, if I'm on my home-network of my personal office-network.... security shoudl come from a higher level I think. So possible backup-targets culd be many, but I mysefl (the notebook) decides which one is the right server/service
[00:14:48] <timsf> (or somesuch - can never remember svcfg syntax off the top of my head)
[00:15:08] <wesolows> looks right to me
[00:15:21] <tomww> I mustly copy/pasted from the readme... IIRC ...
[00:15:31] <sommerfeld> timsf: I'd use ssh mutual authentication to prevent that problem.
[00:15:32] <wesolows> although that sets it in the service, not the instance; that may or may not be as intended
[00:15:37] <timsf> yow (goes off to check...)
[00:15:49] <sommerfeld> timsf: the mDNS announcement would merely be a hint to try starting a backup.
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[00:16:17] <tomww> sommerfeld: good idea. we already know what we want, and the mDNS does the kick-off
[00:16:18] <timsf> Oh yeah - the README mentions that the backup datasets can be set via zfs set, everything else is stored in the SMF config.
[00:16:31] <sommerfeld> And I'd probably also key it off of having an address within a particular net range.
[00:16:48] <agliodbs> anyone here organizing the opensolaris summit?
[00:16:53] <tomww> otherwise, if i have no backaup-target, the list for selction of the target might be filled with the mDNS of servicetype zfs-auto-backup
[00:16:58] <timsf> sommerfeld, gotcha - don't know much about mDNS I admit.
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[00:17:50] <tomww> as mDNS services might be in sight allover a company, yes network-ranges for targetservers might be a good idea
[00:18:14] <timsf> agliodbs, sorta - I've been dialled in on a few of the planning conf. calls - does that count ?
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[00:18:21] <tomww> the Avahi-Docs around tell much about the ideas
[00:18:53] <timsf> Okay, I'll take a peek, thanks
[00:19:21] <timsf>  (and since you stepped out for a bit agliodbs, yes, me - to a tiny extent)
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[00:20:20] <alanc> Gman definitely is if you can catch him
[00:20:20] <lloy0076> Why is the only thing that is standard about JEE is that it's arbitrarily complex?
[00:20:35] <Gman> alanc, i'm around, just on the phone right now
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[00:21:13] <tomww> timsf: oh yes, I see. totally wrong line the one with zfs-verbose ... *runs to edit the blog*
[00:21:42] <agliodbs> I'm wondering if there's any interest in talking about databases & db apps on solaris
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[00:21:46] <agliodbs> or if that's just me
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[00:22:46] <HCoyote> hmm.  reconfiguring to have 5 individual zpools and now I can write 100MB/s.  *scratches head*  There must be a bottleneck somewhere on a per-zpool basis that makes a single large zpool perform like ass for NFS.
[00:23:05] <timsf> You can always poll the attendees, either in person when you're there or before hand - there's lots of room in the schedule for ad-hoc BOFs/talks/get-togethers in the current (draft) schedule
[00:23:19] <agliodbs> the wiki doesn't have any way to indicate interest
[00:23:33] <agliodbs> timsf: well, I don't feel like I have much to contribute on most of the topics
[00:23:38] <agliodbs> timsf: I
[00:23:43] <agliodbs> I'm really just a database guy
[00:23:55] <agliodbs> so if there's no interest, I'm not going to give up a weekend to find that out
[00:24:09] <timsf> Guess you could mail the -summit alias ?
[00:24:16] <agliodbs> ah
[00:24:25] <agliodbs> where do I subscribe?
[00:24:33] <agliodbs> opensolaris or sun.com?
[00:25:05] <timsf> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/opensolaris-summit
[00:25:14] <jmcp> agliodbs: what sort of dbs to you work with?
[00:25:19] <agliodbs> never mind, stupid question
[00:25:24] <agliodbs> <-- PostgreSQL core team
[00:25:29] <jmcp> oh, right
[00:25:29] <timsf> though i'm not sure if everyone attending is on the alias (hrm)
[00:25:35] * jmcp <3 PostgreSQL
[00:25:57] * dlg lessthanthree pg too
[00:25:58] * agliodbs <3 jmcp
[00:26:04] <jmcp> hehe
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[00:26:18] <agliodbs> timsf: it would be enough to let me get an idea of whether there's interest
[00:26:19] <jmcp> been using it as the backend for my jroller instance @ home since I started
[00:26:43] <agliodbs> jmcp: how hard is it to install jroller if you're not a java geek?
[00:26:48] <jmcp> not very hard at all
[00:26:50] <tomww> it's a pitty. I'm in Las Vegas next week and have to leave before the summit...
[00:26:57] <jmcp> agliodbs: pretty simple actually
[00:27:07] <jmcp> they've got scripts to help you do everything
[00:27:13] <agliodbs> tomww: personally, I loathe vegas and will leave the minute CEC is over
[00:27:29] <jmcp> supported db backends include mysql, PostgreSQL, Oracle, DB2 and something else
[00:27:57] <agliodbs> yeah, JRoller is one of the "good" projects
[00:28:10] <agliodbs> you'd be surprised how many projects we have at Sun which support only one DB
[00:28:46] <jmcp> I think I actually would have chosen some other blog engine if JRoller didn't have support for PostgreSQL
[00:29:15] <tomww> agliodbs: so the company sents me home to save me .-)
[00:29:44] <tomww> agliodbs: "good" in terms of other databases work with it?
[00:30:01] <agliodbs> tomww: "good" in terms of proper DB abstraction
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[00:31:14] <agliodbs> jmcp: yeah?  how'd you get started with PG?
[00:31:28] <tomww> I run on glassfish the roller 4 blog, with postgres. (love postgres since pg95)
[00:31:45] <agliodbs> tomww: wow, you predate me
[00:31:49] <agliodbs> I started with 6.5
[00:32:01] <tomww> blog-entry updates (timsf left). http://blogs.sun.com/tom/entry/using_tim_s_zfs_automatic
[00:32:10] <tomww> :-)
[00:32:19] <tomww> PHp wat personal-home-page in these days
[00:32:48] <jmcp> agliodbs: years+years ago I was sysadmin for a uni system which ran Oracle - got interested in how the DB worked but couldn't afford Oracle (or the hw required!) for home. Ingres seemed dead and PostgreSQL was pretty well up there on SQL standard compliance as well as being Open and not quite so hungry. Very easy decision to make :-)
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[00:33:30] <tomww> jmcp: same for me. I always try to use postgreSQL instead of other DBs.
[00:35:17] <lloy0076> (hehe, and MySQL is an abomination)
[00:36:51] <jamesd> lloy0076, mysql is one solution, and is fine for small jobs... do you really need to rent a mac truck everytime you need to move your sofa?  different tools for different jobs.
[00:37:30] <tomww> yes, I want my Sofa always consistend, and want to roll back if some coffee is on the sofa
[00:40:49] <tomww> still bed-time for me, good night and backup your data :)
[00:41:00] <jmcp> gnite
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[01:17:25] <sparcdr> hey guys
[01:17:30] <jamesd> hi
[01:17:47] <sparcdr> :)
[01:18:17] <sparcdr> how long do you think X would take to build on an Ultra-20?  I'm still in the process of compiling it on SXDE
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[01:19:09] <sparcdr> I have an AMD Opteron 1218 (2.6GHz), just curious how long X takes to build these days, because it doesn't seem to be pegging the cpu at all, it's around 10% utilization tops on either core
[01:19:29] <hollenjf> is there a way to package or tar a bunch of documents and encrypt it so only I can read it?
[01:19:40] <sparcdr> yes hohum_
[01:19:45] <sparcdr> er hollenjf
[01:20:04] <sparcdr> ramdisk + crypto or zfs + crypto
[01:20:59] <wesolows> or tar them up and encrypt the tar file
[01:21:03] <wesolows> using gpg or similar
[01:21:04] <sparcdr> yeah
[01:21:12] <sparcdr> and you can use split to obfuscate more
[01:21:16] <alanc> sparcdr: depends what X you build - the entire open source modular X11R7.x tree takes several hours, mostly due to the wonderful brain death of libtool throwing a complex bash script around every call to the compiler or linker
[01:21:28] <sparcdr> alanc, that's the one
[01:21:43] <wesolows> obfuscation is pointless; just encrpyt it using whatever strength you think you need and be done with it.
[01:21:52] <sparcdr> latest source consolidation from the project page, not even pegging the cpu and I have the large config Ultra-20 M2
[01:21:58] <alanc> X11R6.8 was down to about 30 minutes on our dual 2.0Ghz opterons before the libtool infection
[01:22:03] <sparcdr> it's pathetic how slow this is
[01:22:20] <wesolows> death to libtool
[01:22:22] <sparcdr> This is afaik 7.2, since you're skipping 7.3
[01:22:25] * holcomb seconds
[01:22:26] <wesolows> death to libtool's authors
[01:22:27] <sparcdr> am I right?
[01:22:44] <sparcdr> 09062007 I believe is the date
[01:22:47] <elektronkind> what's wrong with libtool? It's nothing but happy bouncing fuzzy pink bunnies
[01:22:55] <sparcdr> o.o
[01:23:04] <sparcdr> elektronkind, it smells horrid, like rank fromundercheese
[01:23:04] <alanc> oh, if you're building from our sources, you get to almost double the time for much of it since we build twice (32-bit & 64-bit)
[01:23:15] <PerterB> elektronkind: clearly you're on the same drugs as its perpetrators
[01:23:21] <sparcdr> damn
[01:23:28] <sparcdr> alanc, 7.2 on each arch takes?
[01:23:39] <alanc> still, whole thing should only be a few hours
[01:23:42] <sparcdr> just per-arch how long give me a number for 2.6GHz AMD 1218 (Dual core)
[01:24:10] <alanc> a) don't have a dual core 2.6Ghz machine
[01:24:22] <alanc> b) don't have per arch times, since the arches are built together
[01:24:23] <sparcdr> im kinda restrained for bandwidth, I've already went over this, and I don't have my new SXDE copy yet, still on 05/07, so I have to upgrade ON and X_WIN so I can try out JDS B75
[01:24:41] <sparcdr> then how long bundled on a dual core machine (Anything above 2GHz)
[01:24:54] <sparcdr> just need a number because im getting antsy
[01:25:26] <holcomb> libtool should provide a progress bar
[01:25:33] <sparcdr> how late do you work each day alanc?
[01:25:36] <sparcdr> hohum_, negative
[01:26:20] <sparcdr> they are dumb enough to make it spit out fluffy kitty hair and waste my time, a progress bar would drive me even more ape
[01:26:24] <alanc> our dual-CPU/single-core 2.0Ghz Opteron build machine builds both open & closed parts of the X gate in 4 hours 32 minutes according to the build logs, but that includes a lot more than the open tree
[01:27:00] <alanc> I'm usually here until at least 5 - last night until 8 though
[01:27:04] <alanc> (PDT)
[01:27:07] <sparcdr> alanc, you're referring to cross-compiling?  do you ever cross-compile SPARC builds, or is there really a lot of x86/x86_64 stuff that you haven't open-sourced?
[01:27:13] <sparcdr> im pdt here also
[01:27:24] <alanc> sparcdr: we have no cross compiler
[01:27:32] <sparcdr> didnt think so, too complex
[01:27:44] <sparcdr> but answer second, is there a lot of encumbered bits left in the tree?
[01:27:46] <alanc> and there's a lot of stuff we haven't open sourced - Xsun, most of the client libraries and apps
[01:28:14] <sparcdr> planning on it once you settle license problems and find alternatives for those things that cannot be worked out, right?
[01:28:15] <alanc> don't think much of it will be encumbered, but haven't gone through to verify it
[01:28:38] <alanc> well, not much outside Xsun, which we're just killing anyway
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[01:28:46] <sparcdr> okay, good to hear, and btw good work so far on x.org, seems to work great.
[01:29:13] <sparcdr> alanc, understood, it's useless to the majority base (x86/x86_64), solaris is more popular now on non-SPARC platforms
[01:29:26] <sparcdr> it's just too outdated and becoming incompatible anyways
[01:29:50] <alanc> on the bright side, Project Indiana has finally made going through the rest of our tree a priority for management, so it should happen over the next 6 months or so
[01:30:00] <wesolows> if appealing to the majority were the only interest, I'm sure Xsun would have gone away long ago
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[01:30:23] <wesolows> thankfully we try to actually serve our customers, including those who made big bets years ago on our technology
[01:30:25] <sparcdr> I saw the project page, looking forward to that, because there's times I don't need a lot of the packages.  It's taking time to fix some of the packaging issues though.
[01:31:06] <sparcdr> wesolows, I did, and have, and still do, and I like your company more now that OpenSolaris has been a major aspect of Sun's future
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[01:31:21] <wesolows> that's good to know :-)
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[01:31:55] <sparcdr> I bought an ultra-20 because I trust sun, and I like the change in direction, it's surely much better than before
[01:32:45] <alanc> if appealing to the majority of the customer base was the only interest, X & the Solaris desktop would have gone away long ago
[01:32:48] <sparcdr> not necessarily for the machine itself, i could had saved about $300 but it wouldnt say sun on it.  call my a sun lover, but i've always liked your hardware, even more so than software, and nowadays software is definitely on my list of things that I like.
[01:32:54] <hollenjf> i need to uninstall gpg and reinstall it.. pkgrm cant find it to uninstall it, i need an exact package name... where can I find it
[01:33:27] <wesolows> alanc: I don't know about that - hard to have Java (Oracle installer?) without X libraries, and if you've got the libraries it doesn't cost that much to throw in the server as well.
[01:33:28] <sparcdr> aware of that alanc, you're referring to servers, but with opensolaris it has became appealing as a desktop.  on here it's as responsive as any other os i can throw on it
[01:33:36] <alanc> hollenjf: where did you install it from?   blastwave would be something like CSWgpg
[01:34:04] <wesolows> I don't actually think opensolaris has changed the appeal of solaris for workstation use; it was high before, and it's high now.  That is, as long as you're not using GNOME/JDS.
[01:34:07] <alanc> the X server is easy - drivers are hard
[01:34:09] <sparcdr> as to say you and the other engineers have done a great deal of work to make it more responsive.
[01:34:12] <hollenjf> alanc: yeah blastwave.. :-/
[01:34:23] <sparcdr> im using jds myself, it's pretty good
[01:34:34] <myrkr> alanc: luckily for us who use it ;)
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[01:35:02] <sparcdr> it's mainly scientific visualization students and professors, and the government that use sun workstations for graphical tasks.  but now it's more appealing
[01:35:31] <sparcdr> im referring to professional use, not joe's desktop here.  coding, visualization etc
[01:35:41] <jbk> though even as a general desktop, i bet it wouldn't be too bad
[01:35:44] <sparcdr> works great for a development environment
[01:35:51] <jbk> staroffice is good enough for most people
[01:35:55] <sparcdr> im using it as a general desktop, just had to add things
[01:35:58] <jbk> firefox generally works well enough
[01:36:03] <sparcdr> media player for instance
[01:36:04] <myrkr> sparcdr: it's my favorite for unix development ;)
[01:36:05] <jbk> you can always use citrix/rdesktop
[01:36:13] <sparcdr> firefox on here works as well as windows' version
[01:36:20] <jbk> if you have windows apss you have to use
[01:36:29] <sparcdr> jbk, xen
[01:36:40] <sparcdr> VT-X/AMD-V
[01:36:46] <sparcdr> soon a reality
[01:36:48] <jbk> plus zfs should make updating pretty painless
[01:37:11] <sparcdr> for windows apps, have a few, just run them native (3D Modeling) anything else I have replacements for
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[01:37:25] <jbk> even on a laptop
[01:37:31] <sparcdr> i havent played with zfs much
[01:37:40] <wesolows> mplayer works fine, too many !@$#@%$! legal issues there is all
[01:37:45] <jbk> i could see where zfs encryption (once integrated) would be very useful
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[01:37:58] <sparcdr> not so much, yet, laptops still have glaring issues.  bluetooth, power management, ati video cards constitute most notebooks
[01:38:13] <wesolows> firefox, staroffice, a usable window manager, mplayer, and xmms pretty much give me all that I ask for or need
[01:38:17] <sparcdr> wesolows, bleh legal, who cares, patents are meaningless and unenforcable in this age
[01:38:20] <myrkr> for ati, there is xig, right?
[01:38:26] <wesolows> sparcdr: libdvdcss?
[01:38:33] <sparcdr> wesolows, yeah yeah, i know
[01:38:48] <sparcdr> we can blame microsoft for making it common to pay for mpeg2
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[01:38:58] <paulf> Hello
[01:39:01] <wesolows> sparcdr: and even if so, Sun is...well, less than assertive about these things.  Comes from sitting on $5b in cash in a lottery-litigation environment.
[01:39:13] <jbk> put the key on a usb stick + maybe a internal server -- when on the network, user filesystems are accessible (don't give user root, so you can make sure their data is put on encrypted filesystems)
[01:39:18] <sparcdr> free systems cant even have a commercial version because of the gpl, and solaris has no commercial backing on the desktop front
[01:39:30] <jbk> use usb stick when working remotely
[01:39:37] <wesolows> it's ok; I'm perfectly happy with Solaris on my desktop
[01:39:45] <jbk> plus things like the zfs backup script that was mentioned earlier
[01:40:01] <sparcdr> so with that said, i use libdvdcss/read anyways, i cant personally be shut down, the feds go after the one developing it first
[01:40:01] * wesolows uses zfsdump; what's this about?
[01:40:12] <sparcdr> i saw the automatic usb zfs backup system
[01:40:25] <jbk> yeah, just a few scripts i believe
[01:40:34] <wesolows> oh, probably very similar to mine then
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[01:40:49] <wesolows> zfsdump 0uf /dev/rmt/0cn ...
[01:40:52] <paulf> that zfs backup stuff looked pretty slick
[01:40:54] <wesolows> simple and easy
[01:40:55] <sparcdr> gotta restart jds i bricked my env variables and cant launch anything (stupid gtk incompatibility with cswxchat2)
[01:41:12] <jbk> wesolows: you set an attribute on the filesystems you want to use, then whenever a usb drive is inserted, it uses snapshots + zfs send to do full/incremental backups
[01:41:15] <sparcdr> core dump for the lose
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[01:41:45] <myrkr> jbk: *all* usb drives? I have 2 and don't want both as backup
[01:42:03] <paulf> mykrk: I think you tell it which one you want it to use
[01:42:22] <myrkr> ok, I have to take a look at that soon ;)
[01:42:27] <paulf> I belive that you can also create multiple instances with SMF to have different policies for different devices
[01:42:32] <wesolows> jbk: huh...the ZFS property is what I'm doing too, something like com.sun.xx.backup:daily = 5
[01:42:40] <wesolows> to do a level 5 backup daily on that filesystem
[01:42:54] <wesolows> the USB thing, though; I can't say I approve of that
[01:43:07] <myrkr> ;) I think I'll just ask you guys when I have my usb drive handy again ;)
[01:43:12] <wesolows> that kind of flash is tiny, painfully slow, and unreliable.
[01:43:25] <wesolows> tape is still king
[01:43:30] <paulf> It sounded like it could also be a USB HDD
[01:43:43] <myrkr> paul: that's what I have (2)
[01:43:44] <wesolows> that's slightly better I guess
[01:43:57] <paulf> but, I haven't actually used it yet, either
[01:43:59] <wesolows> I just don't get the "automatic" aspect of it - isn't this what we have cron for?
[01:44:17] <jbk> the idea i think originally was for laptops
[01:44:20] <myrkr> wesolows: you cron the usb plug?
[01:44:54] <wesolows> myrkr: no, silly, cron the backup to a tape device, or leave the USB disk(s) plugged in before you leave for the day
[01:45:04] <wesolows> just like you put tapes in the library before you leave for the day
[01:45:18] <paulf> it sounded like it was an experiment that wound up being useful, so it may not have been completely planned out from the beginning
[01:45:20] <wesolows> this seems somewhat interesting for laptops though
[01:45:33] <wesolows> if you like laptops :-)
[01:45:59] <jbk> http://blogs.sun.com/timf/entry/zfs_automatic_backup_0_1
[01:46:03] <myrkr> wesolows: yes, currently, I have 2 systems: my home box + laptop
[01:46:08] <wesolows> definitely the angle of setting ZFS properties to control backup is nifty though
[01:46:29] <paulf> at the office we use Connected Data Protector for windows, and this seems like it could provide a nice easy substitute
[01:47:17] <bda> jbk: I love the ZFS Superman logo. ;)
[01:48:16] <wesolows> hmm, it wouldn't be too hard to make the backup daemon a service that a GUI notifier client could wait on
[01:48:22] <wesolows> that would solve the worst problem in this
[01:50:29] <RElling> Sun does sell USB tape drives... :-)
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[01:51:12] <myrkr> RElling: what's the advantage to usb hdds?
[01:51:31] <paulf> I'm just starting to play with OpenSolaris, and I'm thinking of rebuilding my linux file server so I can use ZFS
[01:51:59] <wesolows> indeed we do, it seems
[01:52:00] <RElling> myrkr: tapes have 30 year shelf life
[01:52:04] <wesolows> why?  I have no idea.
[01:52:16] <paulf> and simple backups would be interesting as well
[01:52:19] <myrkr> RElling: and hdds don't?
[01:52:32] <wesolows> most rotating rust drives last 5-10 years max
[01:52:35] <bda> Or is that a Zod badge? (Someone nerdier than I pointed it out. ha.)
[01:52:58] <wesolows> the oldest drives I've ever seen were about 15 years old at the time; their bearings were shot and they were unserviceable
[01:52:59] <RElling> tapes use more ECC than disks
[01:53:08] <elektronkind> paulf: sounds like a cool project
[01:53:13] <myrkr> what's ECC?
[01:53:22] <RElling> error correcting code
[01:53:27] <myrkr> ah
[01:54:01] <paulf> I'm wondering about how to configure the drives, because I'm led to believe that ZFS prefers whole drives rather than partitions or slices
[01:54:21] <myrkr> paul: I've done a partition for zfs
[01:54:52] <myrkr> paul: it's a bit involved, you first partition for solaris, then slice for zfs, then zpool create
[01:54:59] <paulf> yeah, but I read somewhere that it could do more/better caching with whole drives or something
[01:55:13] <myrkr> oh, dunno about that
[01:55:16] <wesolows> when ZFS owns the whole drive, it can control cache flushing and cacheability
[01:55:36] <wesolows> someone like RElling might know more about how much this improves performance :-)
[01:56:20] <paulf> it's not like it's a big thing...it's just my home file server, but if I'm playing around I might as well go all the way :)
[01:56:49] <RElling> YMMV, http://blogs.sun.com/erickustarz/entry/ncq_performance_analysis
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[02:00:46] <CIA-26> jmcp: 6610697 webrev -O isn't closed enough
[02:00:47] <CIA-26> mishra: 6489446 pbind gives wrong message when run on system processes, 6608065 bug 6292092 mis-merged fix of bug 6317341
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[02:01:35] <jbk> heh
[02:02:25] <jmcp> hm?
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[02:03:20] <jbk> your putback
[02:03:31] <jmcp> heh :-)0
[02:04:03] <Chipdancer> jmcp: all done?
[02:04:07] <jmcp> Chipdancer: yea
[02:04:14] <Chipdancer> how's your bike tyres coming? :P
[02:04:21] <jmcp> just about to start
[02:04:24] <Chipdancer> sweet
[02:04:34] <Chipdancer> nothing like a bit of motivation!
[02:05:52] <stevel> jmcp: hah. thanks for fixing that :) is that your penance then?
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[02:07:04] <elektronkind> jcmp is making webrev closed source!!
[02:07:23] <binarycrusader> :P
[02:08:56] <paulf> Anybody know about RBAC?  I'm curious about how much you interact with it on a regular basis
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[02:09:56] <jmcp> stevel: yup
[02:10:20] <elektronkind> I use it for daemons that listen on a privileged port, but don't require root for anything else
[02:10:51] <elektronkind> just tell RBAC that the user the daemon runs as has permissions to bind to  ports < 1024
[02:11:13] <paulf> so can a program that is designed to run as root can be used just by using RBAC, or does it have to be written to work with RBAC?
[02:11:27] <elektronkind> no, rbac is transparent
[02:11:48] <elektronkind> but to /do/ occasionally run into the program that checks which user it runs as, and if it's not root, it refuses to work
[02:11:49] <paulf> and how do you tell the OS that that daemon has that permission?
[02:11:50] <elektronkind> I hate those
[02:12:54] <elektronkind> see the rbac man page
[02:13:04] <elektronkind> also search for it on docs.sun.com
[02:13:08] <elektronkind> good info and examples there
[02:13:21] <jbk> well that feature is actually more a function of least privlege
[02:14:01] <jbk> though i believe rbac can change the privset prior to running a command
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[02:16:11] <sparcdr> hey alanc, etc
[02:16:12] <wesolows> probably exec_attr
[02:16:19] <sparcdr> hey wesolows
[02:16:39] <sparcdr> what gives with the make_package script and SCCS stuff on x_win?
[02:16:54] <jbk> though if it's a deamon, probably should just set it up to work under smf and set the privs that way
[02:17:03] <sparcdr> jbk: *daemon
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[02:19:57] <alanc> sparcdr: shouldn't be trying to do SCCS stuff, but I may have missed cleaning out a bit
[02:24:50] <sparcdr> no, i mean it doesnt seem to want to build packages, i see headers, libraries, etc in the open-src directory in each respective package directory, but I would assume the make_package script is made to be ran, then you install the packages.  you really need to distribute binary builds of x_win
[02:25:55] <sparcdr> in order to get this system working with jds b75 I need X.org 7.2 for composite (Already bricked another system finding out my X was too old)
[02:26:49] <sparcdr> but i cant download to heart's whim until 12-3am, moving in 6mo, nonetheless, waiting on dvd, and dont think it's unreasonable to say building all this is annoying
[02:27:02] <sparcdr> most projects have binary builds
[02:27:32] <wesolows> you can always get SX if you want binaries, or the distribution of your choice
[02:27:47] <sparcdr> did you not hear me, or remember that I am on satellite?
[02:28:11] <sparcdr> 3gb fscking distribution takes me 6 hours and 2 days to do, i have a list of other things to download.
[02:28:58] <sparcdr> it's smaller to upgrade bits, and get free media, but havent yet, want to try b75 of jds, it's not unreasonable to try, but the building of X takes ages, and there's no binary distribution except bundled
[02:29:01] <wesolows> I guess I'm having a hard time reconciling your desire for binaries with your insistence that downloading binaries is too expensive :-)
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[02:29:37] <sparcdr> it isnt too expensive, download bits versus a whole distribution, get a kit and use 1/4th the bandwidth to upgrade what you want/need to
[02:30:31] <wesolows> I agree that such a distribution would offer an advantage; you should consider putting one together.
[02:30:43] <sparcdr> most people just can't grasp this, spoiled with their dsl and/or cable, fibre, t1, or oc lines and friendly isps.  I have a 3 hour window to download, 3gb is quite huge, I'm looking forward to Indiana if there'll be a way to archive the downloaded bits
[02:30:54] <sparcdr> wesolows: I don't see incentive in forking
[02:31:04] <wesolows> forking?  that's not a fork, it's a distribution.
[02:31:09] <sparcdr> are you being serious or not?
[02:31:12] <wesolows> serious
[02:31:17] <sparcdr> hmm
[02:31:26] <sparcdr> so you're saying a lightweight distribution is a good idea?
[02:31:26] <wesolows> why do you think distribution mechanics entail a fork in the code itself?
[02:31:41] <sparcdr> because of upstream feature discrepencies
[02:32:02] <wesolows> I'm saying that a piecemeal distribution that allows retrieving single packages from a central repository instead of just ISOs has advantages for a certain class of users (like you).
[02:32:05] <sparcdr> pushing changes breaks things when multiple distributions commit equal portions of code continually
[02:32:29] <wesolows> You lost me.  I'm talking about a single distribution.
[02:32:42] <sparcdr> not just me, a lot of people would rather not saturate their 1.5mb (or 3mbit) average joe dsl for 4-6 hours
[02:32:46] <wesolows> Let's call it sparcdrOS.
[02:32:56] <sparcdr> single distribution, being based on nevada
[02:33:05] <wesolows> Certainly - an OpenSolaris distribution.
[02:33:12] <sparcdr> is that legal, i know there's like 5 already
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[02:33:18] <wesolows> of course it's legal.
[02:33:23] <sparcdr> great
[02:33:28] <sparcdr> ill consider it
[02:33:39] <alanc> sparcdr: we don't publish binary X packages because I haven't had time to set it up or go through the legal paperwork
[02:33:50] <sparcdr> in 6 mo ill probably be relocating to central texas, will have broadband, but I'd still like to see it happen
[02:34:02] <wesolows> All of the code is redistributable, as are the OBL binaries.
[02:34:13] <sparcdr> alanc: how does that make sense?  i can download sources, which would be even more of a legal problem, and make binaries for myself
[02:34:26] <sparcdr> and you have legal trouble with binaries
[02:34:27] <sparcdr> :/
[02:34:32] <wesolows> SX is not, but that's ok since we're not talking about distributing SX but rather your own collection of packages built from freely redistributable source and binaries.
[02:34:51] <alanc> if your build is too old for Xorg 7.2 (which integrated in nv_58), it's probably too old to run a current drop of X binaries anyway
[02:34:55] <sparcdr> wesolows: moreover SXCE source
[02:35:02] <sparcdr> i have 64a alanc
[02:35:05] <wesolows> There are no legal problems associated with taking the source and OBL binaries and building your own distribution from them.
[02:35:12] <alanc> then you already have 7.2
[02:35:15] <sparcdr> okay wesolows
[02:35:22] <wesolows> sparcdr: There's no such thing as SXCE source.  The Solaris source product is available only for releases.
[02:35:23] <sparcdr> i do, but composite bricks when upgrading jds
[02:35:28] <sparcdr> er other way around
[02:35:46] <alanc> oh, libXcomposite may not have been integrated until 65 or so, but I didn't think JDS used that yet
[02:35:52] <sparcdr> sorry?   you mean piecemeal the OpenSolaris projects together, ON + x_win + etc
[02:35:58] <sparcdr> it does alanc
[02:36:03] <wesolows> Stick to the OpenSolaris sources and stuff that's under the OpenSolaris Binary License and you should have no legal problems with redistribution.  That was the intent all along, and others are doing it too.
[02:36:06] <alanc> as for legal issues, when have they ever made sense?
[02:36:10] <sparcdr> i manually put in place jds and it crashed
[02:36:15] <sparcdr> they dont alanc
[02:36:20] <wesolows> ON and X are consolidations, not projects.
[02:36:31] <sparcdr> so i cant use them?
[02:36:42] <wesolows> You can certainly use them.
[02:36:45] <sparcdr> X is under MIT, im fine there
[02:37:17] <sparcdr> I've only looked at the CDDL a little, it's basically MPL with patent grant and less forceful source provisions
[02:37:18] <alanc> the primary legal issue is we build a single build of the closed and open X bits for Nevada - we've never set up regular open-only builds, so would either need to do that or go through the process for our closed bits
[02:37:23] <wesolows> There are at least a dozen licenses there, all of them open source, plus the OBL for a couple hundred ON binaries.  You can redistribute those too; see the license.
[02:37:40] <sparcdr> okay
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[02:38:17] <wesolows> alanc: One or the other seems like it would be useful, if there's no hope of evicting the closed stuff.
[02:38:23] <alanc> and since many of the packages mix open & closed bits, it's not as easy as saying "only publish the open packages"
[02:38:27] <sparcdr> alanc: but i can build X.org right now, as I am now atm, and make a functional X11 install, so what special stuff is in your mixed-bag X?
[02:38:46] <alanc> sparcdr: just a few little things like libX11
[02:38:53] <wesolows> alanc: is this at the package level or the file level (e.g., libc_i18n.a)?
[02:39:06] <sparcdr> for compatibility with older Solaris releases I'd assume
[02:39:30] <wesolows> at the package level, that's already true of ON too - which is why the packaging files are almost useless.  But if he's making his own distribution anyway, he's presumably writing his own package definitions anyway.
[02:39:34] <sparcdr> man it's getting hot in here, thanks X.org
[02:40:26] <alanc> we've set up the Fully-Open X project to generate fully-open-source bits, and are working on getting as much as possible of the old bits rebased onto the current X.Org sources so we know they're legally clear, but both parts take time
[02:40:53] <sparcdr> It was a forinstance, I do not have the bandwidth to keep a distribution going here, I will once I'm relocated, but I was curious
[02:41:20] <wesolows> ok...I just wanted to make it clear that OpenSolaris makes it possible for you to accomplish what you want.
[02:41:24] <sparcdr> thanks for the info guys
[02:41:32] <alanc> wesolows: the SVR4 packages we build have some files built from open source and some from closed source in the same package, so it's not an issue for building your own distro, just an issue for me throwing our builds out there for people to install
[02:41:56] <sparcdr> wesolows: i thought so, i understand most of the cddl and opensolaris binary license, and regular solaris binary license, so i have a feel for what to be careful of
[02:41:59] <sparcdr> ill bbl
[02:42:00] <sparcdr> bye
[02:42:35] <wesolows> alanc: understood - you could package them, but the packages would be incompatible with SX.
[02:42:41] <sparcdr> alanc: ill be sure to test the fully-open versions as they become available
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[02:43:24] <alanc> at least initially the fully-open versions will not be fully compatible with existing Solaris binaries - we need to publish our library changes to make that possible, which I'm working on
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[02:53:51] <boyd> Morning, all
[02:54:58] <boyd> Hey, has anyone seen this "WARNING: IP: Hardware address '00:14:4f:1f:6a:e2' trying to be our address 192.168.001.013".  But the thing is, that's *my* MAC address
[02:56:05] <jamesd> yes i have seen that error..    there are two boxes using the same ip#.
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[02:56:40] <jamesd> try ping -s  the_ip#
[02:59:42] <boyd> No, jamesd, It's complaining that the other box is me
[02:59:53] <wesolows> I have indeed seen that
[02:59:56] <wesolows> but not recently
[03:00:01] <wesolows> never tracked it down
[03:00:05] <boyd> This on s10u3
[03:00:16] <boyd> I have a whole room of machines doing it :O
[03:00:24] <jamesd> its been years since i have seen that error.
[03:00:34] <wesolows> Maybe a bug in an early implementation of DAD?  Or maybe a bug fixed by the new DAD?
[03:00:45] <boyd> Hmm...
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[03:01:31] <elektronkind> I'm Doug, and you're DAD. I'm outta heeeeeeeeere
[03:03:28] <the-decider> elektronkind: what you smokin!
[03:03:49] <elektronkind> it's old kids in the hall
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[03:04:09] <the-decider> mmm...  KITH.  They was funnies.
[03:06:59] <nachox> evening
[03:07:59] <jamesd> hi nachox
[03:08:41] <paulf> Hmmm...docs.sun.com seems to be having issues...all I get is "Connecting to docs.sun.com..."
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[03:11:51] <e^ipi> big surprise there
[03:11:52] <e^ipi> ...
[03:13:24] <nachox> docs.sun.com is the reason people download the documentation cd
[03:14:17] <paulf> does anybody happen to have a pointer to that?
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[03:23:17] <elektronkind> you can get it from http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/get.jsp
[03:23:19] <elektronkind> too
[03:23:32] <elektronkind> it's a separate ISO from the installation ISOs
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[03:29:35] <paulf> Hmmm...can't find the doc cd
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[04:02:24] * lloy0076 rolls the eyes at docs.sun: ORA-01578: ORACLE data block corrupted (file # 6, block # 100934) ORA-01110: data file 6: '+ASM_DG2/docsdb/docsys01.dbf' ORA-26040: Data block was loaded using the NOLOGGING option ORA-06512: at "DOCSYS.DOCBASE", line 1071 ORA-06512: at "DOCSYS.DOCBASE", line 1185 ORA-06512: at line 1
[04:02:32] <lloy0076> I'm not sure if "stupidly slow" is worse.
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[04:07:21] <nachox> how come sun uses oracle instead of posgresql? :(
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[04:08:21] <jamesd> nachox, it may of been in use before  postgres was created... and  sun and oracle are budies... long before sun reconised postgres.
[04:08:28] <nachox> and tomcat instead of glassfish ... i guess someone else developed the web app for them
[04:09:14] <jamesd> nachox, how come your mom didn't give you an mp3 player when you were a kid instead of a cassette player.
[04:09:53] <nachox> jamesd, that would be a fair question if i were 2 years old, docs was revamped not long ago
[04:10:00] <myrkr> jamesd: the future shop was closed?
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[04:10:22] <jamesd> revamped != rewritten...
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[04:11:05] <lloy0076> IIRC, docs did get some sort of revamp; that said, I'm not complaining about its content - the *content* at docs.sun is excellent and should stop almost all silly questions about Solaris - it's just annoying when the content loses usability because of technical issues.
[04:11:49] <nachox> jamesd, it was not "revamped" enough it seems ;)
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[04:18:42] <paulf> I must say, the content seems excellent
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[05:06:44] <bda> Is anyone building monitoring services on top of SMF/FMA?
[05:07:01] <bda> I had some ideas for replacing our existing mon instrastructure with it, but it was in the shower, and I typically have insane ideas in the shower.
[05:09:47] <Tempt> perhaps you need a sunray in your shower
[05:10:34] <bda> It is a pretty small shower.
[05:10:39] <bda> Even a Sunray would be pushing it.
[05:12:10] <e^ipi> get grease pencils & leave one in there
[05:12:12] <jamesd> ah a sunray, where the sun doesn't shine?
[05:12:21] <e^ipi> you'll be able to write on the wall and wash it off later
[05:12:35] <bda> e^ipi: The idea was not so ridiculously complex I was unable to keep it all in my head. :)
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[05:12:53] <bda> I was thinking about I might replace our existing (somewhat ghetto) mon infrastructure with SMF/FMA.
[05:13:21] <bda> SMF on the monitoring host would have "classes" of services (manifests) within which hosts are defined as instances of that service. So you have granularity.
[05:13:27] <bda> (which we don't have now, because it's annoying)
[05:13:39] <bda> Lacks scheduling and graphing, both of which something like Nagios gives you.
[05:13:42] <bda> But I hate Nagios.
[05:14:11] <RainDoctor> does nagios hog resources?
[05:14:18] * bda shrugs.
[05:14:27] <RainDoctor> how much?
[05:14:38] <bda> I haven't used Nagios in years, and I don't recall that being my problem with it. :)
[05:14:46] <bda> I mainly hated its interface and configuring it.
[05:14:56] <RainDoctor> ah
[05:14:58] <bda> People tell me Nagio 2 sucks much less in those regards.
[05:15:20] <RainDoctor> well, if there exists documentation, it is alrite
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[05:16:13] <jamesd> hi karrotx
[05:16:34] <karrotx> hey
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[05:25:49] <RainDoctor> if I do #domainname x.y.com
[05:25:56] <RainDoctor> where does x.y.com get stored?
[05:29:37] <paulf> I think it's only stored in the kernel if you set it that way
[05:30:46] <RainDoctor> how to set it persistently
[05:31:14] <paulf> check /etc/defaultdomain
[05:31:23] <RainDoctor> that file doesn't exist
[05:31:35] <bda> Create it.
[05:31:43] <RainDoctor> thanks
[05:31:44] <paulf> see man defaultdomain, it describes how it's used
[05:31:51] <RainDoctor> cool
[05:32:09] <RainDoctor> dfstab works when I give fqdn
[05:32:16] <RainDoctor> but it doesn't export, when I give short name
[05:32:32] <RainDoctor> is there any nfs setting so that it can work with just short name
[05:32:35] <paulf> Hmmm...does setting domainname manually help?
[05:32:44] <RainDoctor> no, it didn't
[05:33:03] <paulf> check /etc/resolv.conf, look for an entry starting with domain
[05:33:18] <RainDoctor> yes, domain x.y.com --exists
[05:33:23] <paulf> according to man resolv.conf:
[05:33:25] <paulf>      domain                 Specifies the local domain name. Most
[05:33:25] <paulf>                             queries  for names within this domain
[05:33:25] <paulf>                             can use short names relative  to  the
[05:33:25] <paulf>                             local  domain.  If no domain entry is
[05:34:20] <paulf> do you have a search entry?
[05:34:24] <RainDoctor> yes
[05:34:33] <RainDoctor> search contains multiple domains
[05:34:49] <RainDoctor> but the first one is x.y.com (our primary domain)
[05:34:57] <paulf> does it also contain x.y.com?  I'm uncertain if solaris includes the default domain if it's specified
[05:35:00] <paulf> Hmmm
[05:35:12] <paulf> can you ping by shortname?
[05:35:27] <RainDoctor> yes, it contains x.y.com
[05:35:31] <RainDoctor> yes, I can ping by shortname
[05:36:00] <paulf> Hmmm
[05:36:35] <RainDoctor> i also changed nfsmapid domain
[05:36:40] <RainDoctor> in /etc/default/nfs
[05:36:41] <RainDoctor> that parameter
[05:36:47] <RainDoctor> set the domain to x.y.com
[05:36:55] <RainDoctor> then did pkill -HUP <thatdomaind>
[05:37:05] <RainDoctor> it dint help
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[05:37:33] <paulf> Hmmm
[05:38:59] <paulf> I'm afraid I'm out of things to try :/
[05:39:14] <RainDoctor> thanks ;)
[05:39:20] <RainDoctor> I will raise a ticket with sun
[05:39:51] <paulf> all I can think of is if there is some type of security that's expecting a fqdn
[05:40:33] <RainDoctor> yeah
[05:40:49] <paulf> actually...
[05:41:02] <RainDoctor> any kernel parameter
[05:41:02] <paulf> we did a ping to test, but that only checks the forward resolve
[05:41:11] <RainDoctor> i see
[05:41:12] <paulf> try to do a host <ip>
[05:41:23] <RainDoctor> yes, i can ping IP addy
[05:41:42] <paulf> because the NFS server will convert the IP back to the name to check if it's allowed
[05:42:01] <RainDoctor> hmm
[05:42:27] <RainDoctor> well, it is nfs v4
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[06:39:47] <paulf> g'night
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[06:40:55] <trochej> mornin'
[06:47:07] <trochej> [d]
[06:48:32] <jmcp> hiya
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[07:31:51] <WickedWicky> hey all
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[07:36:04] <oninoshiko> hi WickedWicky
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[07:40:46] <WickedWicky> heya :) everything alright?
[07:44:36] <Tempt> busy-busy
[07:46:38] <e^ipi> cute, autobreak can't find gtk anymore
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[07:47:28] <e^ipi> damn you richard stallman!
[07:47:31] <e^ipi> damn you to hell!
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[07:55:41] <Bartman007> e^ipi: watch out, he might come after you with his kitana.
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[08:01:50] <g4lt-sb100>  worse, he might come after you with EMACS
[08:02:13] <steleman> or he will try to tickle you with his beard
[08:04:21] <WickedWicky> busy is good Tempt ;-)
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[08:08:44] <Tempt> Say, anyone in Sydney fancy a beer?
[08:09:56] <lloy0076> I fancy a beer but I'm in Adelaide.
[08:09:57] <lloy0076> :(
[08:10:12] <lloy0076> I'm currently fighting with Sun Java System Application Server 9.1.
[08:10:37] <lloy0076> However, I'm convinced it's two "Ses" have morphed into other words that start with "S".
[08:11:02] <lloy0076> For some obscure reason -- well the reason isn't obscure -- it won't deploy its own reference RMS connector.
[08:11:26] <lloy0076> If I can't deploy its reference generic connector thing, I doubt I have a chance in hell of deploying something else.
[08:11:27] * lloy0076 sigh
[08:12:31] <Tempt> How awful.
[08:12:49] <Tempt> If you were here, we could whinge about it over a beer
[08:13:16] <Bartman007> Tempt: I'll join you in an eBeer.
[08:13:44] <Tempt> Yes, well, eBeer is all well and good, but anyone want a *real* beer? <g>
[08:13:55] * Bartman007 hands Tempt a tall frosty glass of Stout Tall Frosted Urine
[08:14:10] <Bartman007> (hint: acronym)
[08:14:20] <Tempt> Grrrr...
[08:14:25] <Bartman007> ;-)
[08:14:39] <bda> http://forum.parallels.com/showpost.php?p=38456&postcount=6 # yay
[08:14:53] <Tempt> My usual sydney drinking crew are in bloody Brisbane this week
[08:15:40] <Bartman007> bda: VMWare supports netbooting without all the hoops.
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[08:16:07] <bda> Bartman007: Yeah, but I'm already somewhat invested.
[08:16:32] <bda> It the hoop turns out to be on fire, I will switch.
[08:17:47] <bda> rom-o-matic *is* pretty spiffy, though, assuming it is not riddled with doom. ;)
[08:18:41] <jmcp> Tempt: any particular part of Brisbane, and are they worth catching up with?
[08:19:50] <Doc> alcohol is bad, m'kay?
[08:20:03] <jmcp> Doc: I only consume surgical quantities :)
[08:20:58] <Tempt> Doc: Fancy a beer? :)
[08:23:13] <Bartman007> jmcp: surgical quantites of lab grade alcohol? (95+%)
[08:23:16] * Tempt worrrrrrrrrrrrrkkkkkkk
[08:23:25] * Tempt grumbles
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[08:23:36] <jmcp> Bartman007: nope
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[08:25:30] <Bartman007> jmcp: that's no fun, I wanted to see some alcohol fueled storage subsystem coding :-)
[08:27:50] <jmcp> no, you really don't !
[08:31:03] <Bartman007> jmcp: I know several people that do their best work when powered by alcohol :-)
[08:33:04] <jmcp> much as I'd like to say that I can work really well when alcohol-fuelled, my experience to date has been the opposite - giving the lie to   http://xkcd.com/323
[08:34:01] <g4lt-sb100> jmcp, well, there is a provable curve like that with caffeine ;P
[08:34:39] <Bartman007> jmcp: ah, but did you make sure you stayed within the small domain of the peak?
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[08:40:00] <jmcp> Bartman007: now, that's a problem - requires as much attention to BAC as it does to the programming
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[08:41:00] <Bartman007> jmcp: integrate a breathalizer into your machine.  The screen locks unless you stay within a certain range.
[08:41:17] <WickedWicky> canI be beta tester?
[08:41:34] <jmcp> muahahaha
[08:42:36] <Bartman007> jmcp: shoot for inclusion by b77, should be ample time to nail down the correct BAC range (or trigger organ failure)
[08:42:55] <WickedWicky> for the breathalizer in the machine... not the code jmcp produces while being off his face
[08:42:58] <WickedWicky> to be perfectly clear
[08:42:59] <WickedWicky> :P
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[08:58:34] <WickedWicky> gotta love licences based on hardware characteristics
[08:58:44] <trochej> :)
[08:58:47] <WickedWicky> Oh my! we blew the network card! (in a not erotic way)
[08:58:57] <WickedWicky> yes, cool, change it and see your application go down
[08:58:59] <WickedWicky> \\o
[08:59:00] <WickedWicky> o//
[08:59:13] <trochej> Faken. I'd kill for VMware of VirtualBox to work on Solaris
[09:02:05] <WickedWicky> or just find a less ridicule way to provide licenses
[09:02:53] <WickedWicky> the way these licenses are done is unacceptable for a high-profile service, especialy when you take in account the licences have to be issues by a company in San Diego and we're Amersfoort (NL)
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[09:10:46] <trochej> WickedWicky: What the hell are those licences for?
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[09:22:12] <WickedWicky> to scramble MPEG streams
[09:23:16] <jmcp> so you *are* doing pornstreams
[09:23:28] <WickedWicky> we do
[09:23:38] <WickedWicky> Spice Platinum, Playboy TV, Adult Channel
[09:23:44] <WickedWicky> plus other TV channels
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[09:24:06] <lloy0076> Playboy is the one for girls isn't?
[09:24:09] * WickedWicky is working for the media over IP branch within KPN
[09:24:11] <lloy0076> Or have I reversed it.
[09:24:13] <WickedWicky> no
[09:24:24] <WickedWicky> playboy magazine contains girls
[09:24:25] <lloy0076> lol
[09:24:34] <lloy0076> I always get that the wrong way around.
[09:24:34] <WickedWicky> we have a channel for kawai too
[09:24:39] <WickedWicky> called XMO tv
[09:24:59] <trochej> :)
[09:25:03] <Bartman007> WickedWicky: got EMO tv?
[09:25:13] <trochej> Do kaiwai know?
[09:25:24] <WickedWicky> We have a channel streaming mexican telenovelas all day
[09:25:27] <WickedWicky> which.. is quite bad
[09:26:20] <WickedWicky> then there is the weather channel
[09:26:29] <WickedWicky> where you can look up weather forcasts all day
[09:26:48] <WickedWicky> RTL4,RTL5,RTL8, Veronica and SBS6 for the cool programs and movies
[09:27:34] <Bartman007> WickedWicky: heh, who had the idea to use software that is licensed to the network card?
[09:27:42] <WickedWicky> well
[09:27:52] <WickedWicky> they changed the way they calculate licences
[09:28:16] <WickedWicky> and this is a 'turn key' solutions by our friends from $"a german vendor who initialy made trams"
[09:29:56] <WickedWicky> $vendor gathered (read bought) some shops who did either scrambling/middleware/STBs , wrapped it up ina package
[09:30:07] <WickedWicky> and sells it as multimedia enterainment solution
[09:31:22] <WickedWicky> Its a very nice product, and our customers are happy
[09:31:51] <WickedWicky> it's just that sometimes as admin you wonder why the hell and how the ffing f they are doing some stuff
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[09:34:08] <trochej> WickedWicky: It's a comon though among admins in many companies around the world
[09:34:31] <WickedWicky> yea, I had the same at ING Cooperate at times ;-)
[09:34:53] <WickedWicky> the first weeks I really got pissed at things here
[09:35:01] <WickedWicky> now I use my ultimate defense: sarcasm
[09:36:00] <trochej> WickedWicky: I stopped using anything mnot related to my work, when I failed tmy previous employer to acko
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[09:36:29] <trochej> aknowlegde the fact, that a managing interface for large scale UPSs shouldn't work via telnet
[09:36:59] <WickedWicky> that's pretty bad yeah
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[09:40:27] <Teltariat> Greets folks.  I have a weird issue, wondering if someone can help.  Solaris doesn't seem to recognize my DVD drive
[09:40:46] <Teltariat> It will boot form it, yes, but the loaded kernel doesn't see it
[09:40:54] <kjetilho> trochej: telnet is fine -- you just need to put it on a secured VLAN :-)
[09:40:56] <Teltariat> So when its time for installation, it'll say "Can't find installation media"
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[09:41:27] <trochej> kjetilho: That concept was far beyond their powers of comprehension
[09:41:30] <bda> Teltariat: That's an issue with b72, I believe. You can try another DVD-ROM or use b71 or b73.
[09:41:43] <bda> I ran into it with CDs, but according to mailing posts it's the same issue.
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[09:41:49] * bda could be totally wrong, of course. :)
[09:41:58] <Teltariat> b73 does the same damn thing
[09:42:03] <bda> :<
[09:42:16] <Teltariat> I'm dumbfounded
[09:42:21] <bda> I swapped CD drives and it worked.
[09:42:30] <bda> (from something ancient to something recent)
[09:42:38] <bda> I was pretty confused too.
[09:42:51] <Teltariat> My DVD drive is quite recent; I shouldn't be having issues like this.
[09:43:24] <Teltariat> The latest release of Solaris 10 isn't affected, is it?  9/07, was it?
[09:43:42] <jmcp> Teltariat: 0807
[09:43:48] <jmcp> and no, it's not affected as far as I'm aware
[09:43:49] <Teltariat> thanks jcmp
[09:43:56] <Teltariat> I guess I'm going to go for that then
[09:43:58] <jmcp> bda: it's a pain in the backside that problem
[09:44:05] <bda> jmcp: Yeah, it was.
[09:44:11] <bda> I had to rip apart a couple machines because of it.
[09:44:20] * bda doesn't really have much of a test env in his apartment anymore.
[09:44:27] <jmcp> :)
[09:44:47] <Teltariat> Crap.  I have to wait another couple of hours to download yet another DVD.
[09:44:51] <Teltariat> This takes the cake.
[09:46:32] * bda is setting up a JS server on his laptop, partially for this reason.
[09:46:41] <bda> Though ... seriously. What an awful bug.
[09:47:12] <Teltariat> Solaris 10 0807 should allow me to run a Jumpstart system out of a Zone?  Sorry if its a stupid question, I'm still putting about trying to learn this off and on
[09:47:25] <jmcp> Teltariat: dunno
[09:47:36] <bda> No DHCP or NFS servers in zones.
[09:47:41] <jmcp> you definitely can't use a non-global zone as an nfs server
[09:47:42] <bda> (unless that changed in u4)
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[09:48:09] <jmcp> nope, hasn't changed
[09:48:12] <kjetilho> bda: DHCP server should be possible now that you can give a zone raw access to an interface
[09:48:48] <kjetilho> DHCP client is supported now, at least.
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[09:49:35] <jmcp> I think (not sure, don't quote me) that you'll still need to have a separate physical interface for a zone to serve dhcp
[09:49:47] <kjetilho> but the "forging" of packets there is done by the OS itself, so I guess it's not quite the same thing
[09:50:03] <Teltariat> So with the DVD I have now can I use the sparse mini-environment (mini-root, they call it, I think, right?), the mini-root that I am in now to install over the network?  I was going to try to mount the DVD on another machine and export it via NFS
[09:50:04] <kjetilho> jmcp: in u4 you can assign an interface or a VLAN instance to a zone
[09:50:43] <jmcp> ah, I haven't played with vlan instances
[09:51:39] <Bartman007> re: the DVD drive/can't find installation media issue. Known bug, supposedly fixed by putbacks in b74.
[09:52:15] <Teltariat> How did it even get out the door with such a show-stopper of a bug?
[09:52:18] <Teltariat> Thats like
[09:52:21] <Teltariat> ...
[09:52:24] <Teltariat> I'm speechless.
[09:53:10] <Bartman007> Teltariat: I assume it was not known when the iso was "pushed out the door"
[09:53:37] <Bartman007> it doesn't happen with all DVD drives.
[09:53:44] <Teltariat> They don't try to run/test the isos on a test system/as a VM guest?
[09:54:02] <kjetilho> Teltariat: it's kind of hard to gather and test all kinds of drives
[09:54:05] <Bartman007> Teltariat: works great in VM guests here.
[09:54:12] <Teltariat> ah, k
[09:54:19] <kjetilho> Teltariat: which brand are you using?
[09:54:21] <Bartman007> bit me only when I tested it on one specific machine.
[09:54:39] <Teltariat> Its a laptop drive, not sure of the brand
[09:54:53] <Teltariat> One of those slimline laptop drives within a 1U server
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[09:55:50] <bda> Hit me with whatever came with a Dell SC14xx, worked fine once I swapped it with some random drive I had in my firewall (grr).
[09:56:04] <bda> But, eh. Shit happens.
[09:56:50] <Teltariat> I'll continue to newbishly pewl around trying to do this via NFS in the meanwhile.
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[09:56:56] <bda> haha.
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[10:02:16] <trochej> Does anyone have any experience with installing Sol within VirtualBox?
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[10:20:35] <timsf> morning everyone
[10:22:03] <Teltariat> trochej: Solaris never started in Virtualbox for me.  It wouldn't even run in qemu.
[10:22:22] <Teltariat> Maybe I just have rotten luck
[10:22:29] <bda> JET++
[10:23:40] <trochej> Teltariat: Count me in
[10:23:49] <trochej> It didn't start for me too
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[10:29:05] * alanbur starts his daily 8 hours of banging his head against the wall
[10:30:20] <paul> Solaris works fine in Qemu
[10:30:25] <paul> there was a time when it didnt though
[10:30:46] <alanbur> Why shouldn't it work an a Pacific island?
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[10:48:06] <PerterB> alanbur: because of the coriolis effect
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[10:48:45] <alanbur> Ah, of course!  I should have thought of that ;-)
[10:49:19] * PerterB adds that one to the stack of excuse cards
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[10:55:44] <Teltariat> I've successfully mounted the b72 iso via NFS into my broken little rescue shell environment
[10:55:56] <Teltariat> As far as I can tell, the necessary stuff needs to be in /tmp/root
[10:56:11] <Teltariat> but I cannot tell by looking at the b72 iso contents where this stuff resides.
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[11:01:00] <trochej> paul: As for me, quemu sucks
[11:01:09] <trochej> Its performance in much below my needs
[11:01:51] <paul> trochej: try kqemu
[11:01:57] <trochej> paul: I did
[11:02:06] <paul> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/qemu/downloads/
[11:02:16] <trochej> paul: I did
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[11:04:16] <paul> trochej: EWORKSFORME ;)
[11:04:32] <trochej> paul: Good for you :)
[11:04:35] <trochej> Way to go
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[11:11:05] <gobbler> which shell is used in postinstall scripts in packages?
[11:11:17] <alanbur> /bin/sh
[11:11:44] <gobbler> arrr, theres an easy way to change that?
[11:11:47] <alanbur> no
[11:12:04] <gobbler> :-C
[11:12:30] <alanbur> buy SVr4 packaging is so good, right?
[11:12:51] <g4lt-sb100> no, it just beats the others
[11:13:04] <trygvis> right ..
[11:13:34] <g4lt-sb100> want to try changing the shell in a RPM?  good luck with that....
[11:14:28] <g4lt-sb100> in fact, both rpm and deb files are so bash dependent it isn't funny
[11:14:29] <gobbler> RPM is a pain as well
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[11:28:21] <Teknomancer> does anyone know since which when libhal ships with Solaris?
[11:30:04] <Stric> not sure it's in any released solaris yet.. though nevada has it I think
[11:30:32] <Teknomancer> so it ships with OpenSolaris but Solaris?
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[11:35:39] <Teknomancer> hm, so i guess i cannot assume any moderately new solaris system will have libhal...
[11:38:14] <Stric> nope
[11:39:16] <Teknomancer> ugh, does solaris have any user-level API to get a list of optical drives on the system?
[11:39:51] <Teltariat> EYE-OH-STAT-DASH-EEEE
[11:40:09] <Teknomancer> iostat -E
[11:40:22] <Teknomancer> is the source for iostat available
[11:40:34] <Teltariat> Well I suppose it should be, yea
[11:40:52] <bda> iostat's -n flag is pretty useful.
[11:40:53] * bda goes to bed.
[11:41:44] <Teltariat> Teknomancer: are you having that problem where it says it "Can't Find Installation Media" ?
[11:41:59] <Teknomancer> Teltariat: nope
[11:42:25] <Teltariat> Pity.  I was looking for others to be just as miserable as myself.
[11:44:16] <g4lt-sb100> that's for #solaris.  here, we're nice to each other ;P
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[13:25:24] <WickedWicky> let's say I have two internal disks and I wanna mess with live upgrade
[13:25:40] <WickedWicky> would you go for a /altroot slice or do this fancy mirror breaking stuff to LU?
[13:28:51] <cmihai> Depends on disk space.
[13:28:59] <cmihai> But /altroot has more advantages.
[13:29:22] <cmihai> You can have both on a RAID-1 mirror, you don't need to rebuild mirrors and you can keep the /altroot even after it works, just in case you break it eventually.
[13:29:48] <cmihai> But it does cost more disks space. But since disk space is cheap... just use those disks for a mirror, and use /altroot for LU
[13:31:12] <WickedWicky> that's what I had in mind, thanks for confirming. The disks are 72GB so should be enough :)
[13:31:15] <WickedWicky> thanks cmihai :D
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[13:31:27] <cmihai> You're welcome :-)
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[13:33:07] <cmihai> WickedWicky, 72GB SCSI disks hey? More then enough for Solaris and /altroot :-). Just as long as you have your storage on ZFS or Veritas or whatever / external storage you're set.
[13:33:48] <kaiwai> 72gb
[13:33:53] <kaiwai> hmm, need more space
[13:34:31] <cmihai> Not really...
[13:35:59] <kaiwai> well, between porn and mp3's, it doesn't leave much left
[13:36:02] <WickedWicky> cmihai: this a test V240 I have under my desk, I am gonna set it up so collugues (I cant ever spell this word) can mess around with Solaris, upgrades and do the day-to-day maintenance/admin stuff
[13:36:03] <trochej> cmihai: It's kaiwai. He probably realy needs more space
[13:36:10] <trochej> For pr0n or whateva
[13:36:11] <sickness> i'm back
[13:36:18] <kaiwai> hi
[13:36:29] <kaiwai> hmm, just reading slashdot for kicks
[13:36:29] * WickedWicky is trying to make himself replacable and then do a pkill -QUIT current_employer
[13:36:32] <cmihai> WickedWicky, just give them each a Container :-)
[13:36:42] <kaiwai> IMHO some geeks should just stick to computers and avoid the religious debates
[13:36:49] <cmihai> WickedWicky, funny, I'm sort of doing the same thing./
[13:37:09] <cmihai> Just make sure you document the damn things.
[13:37:15] <hali> we recently got a HUP
[13:37:20] <hali> from my employeer
[13:37:44] <kaiwai> HUP?
[13:37:45] <cmihai> Unless you mean SIGHUP, I have no idea what you're talking about
[13:37:46] <hali> "you don't work for X anymore, you now work for Y, your desk is in the basement"
[13:37:52] <kaiwai> Horney Underaged Person?
[13:38:02] <trochej> hum in the rump
[13:38:08] <trochej> s/hum/hup/
[13:38:13] <trochej> Faken Mac keyboard
[13:38:46] <trochej> I don't get that twitter thingy
[13:39:06] <cmihai> Looks like an arranged mess of quotes.
[13:39:29] <trochej> or mass of arranged quotes
[13:39:46] <cmihai> I think it's supposed to act like a SMS RSS feed.
[13:39:58] <cmihai> Or similar to Firefox LiveBookmarks...
[13:40:01] <cmihai> you just get the titles
[13:40:11] <trochej> titties?
[13:40:15] <trochej> oh,, titles
[13:40:22] <cmihai> Oh, shut up you perv :P
[13:40:29] <cmihai> Oh, wait, that's normal.
[13:40:52] <trochej> You keep kawai araound and call ME a perv? :)
[13:40:59] <cmihai> Still, the whole "Friends of OpenSolaris" thing just sounds like something kaiwai would say.
[13:41:05] <cmihai> As in, gay.\
[13:41:31] <kaiwai> no one can out perv me!
[13:41:45] <cmihai> I don't keep kaiwai around, he's just stick.. for reasons I'd rather not think about.
[13:42:04] <cmihai> +s
[13:42:09] * kaiwai things cmihai is just lonely
[13:42:40] <cmihai> ... and proud of it.
[13:42:46] <trochej> cmihai: He sticks? Uhmm
[13:43:10] <razrX> guys, ever heard of tmi ? ;P
[13:43:15] <trochej> I don't only want to know why, but also HOW
[13:43:22] <trochej> razrX: Nope
[13:43:33] <cmihai> razrX, yes, actually.
[13:43:38] <cmihai> "TMI" ("too much information"), a slang expression indicating that someone has divulged too much personal information and made the listener uncomfortable.
[13:43:41] <razrX> yus dun care ey cmihai
[13:44:09] <cmihai> It is also a 1993 song by Duran Duran.
[13:44:23] <cmihai> Oh, wait, tmi...
[13:45:20] <trochej> Only thing I can think of is it is a MIT acronym
[13:45:33] <razrX> lol
[13:46:27] <trochej> Probably it is some weird English thingy
[13:46:38] <razrX> oh well, meh shouldn't talk if i keep sending tmi's about needing to do a #2 on the toilet for an afk break ;P
[13:47:07] <razrX> just thought i'd be on the other side of the fence for once
[13:47:32] <razrX> see how that feels and it's no fun at all, so i'd say : just keep using them tmi guys :P
[13:47:53] <trochej> afk?
[13:48:02] <razrX> away from keyboard
[13:48:03] <Teknomancer> away from keyboard
[13:48:07] <cmihai> what he said
[13:48:08] <trochej> ok
[13:48:15] <cmihai> New to IRC huh?
[13:48:19] <cmihai> That's Internet Relay Chat btw
[13:48:20] <razrX> prolly ;P
[13:48:27] <razrX> roflmao
[13:48:27] <trochej> I thought of away for (a) crap
[13:48:30] <cmihai> Just a fyi :-)
[13:48:45] <cmihai> trochej, you really need to install wtf
[13:48:50] <WickedWicky> hey.. what's this now...
[13:48:54] <razrX> cmihai: trochej should reply with 'oic' by now meh guesses :P
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[13:49:02] <WickedWicky> I get dumped to the OK prompt after SXCE72 created the file systems
[13:49:03] <cmihai> feh
[13:49:05] <trochej> I know most acronyms, it's just that keeping track of acronytms in three languages is just tiresome
[13:49:12] <Teknomancer> he prolly opted to reply l8r
[13:49:39] <razrX> trochej: languages ? there any other besides English ?
[13:49:44] <cmihai> jA
[13:49:46] <cmihai> VA
[13:49:47] <cmihai> :-)
[13:50:00] <razrX> xD
[13:50:00] <trochej> I think I'll reply KTZ
[13:50:01] <cmihai> C is not a language, it's a way of life :-)
[13:50:06] <razrX> yus
[13:50:13] <Teknomancer> right about C
[13:50:45] <kaiwai> hmm
[13:50:48] <kaiwai> CC's a nice too
[13:50:52] <trochej> BCC
[13:51:00] <razrX> don't go there kaiwai ;)
[13:51:00] <Cyrille> destroying string arrays the hard way since 19something ;-)
[13:51:08] <kaiwai> CC's - they're a corn chip
[13:51:09] <trochej> :)
[13:51:10] <Teknomancer> bcc is good
[13:51:38] <trochej> Barbeque?
[13:51:43] <Teknomancer> brian evan's c compiler
[13:51:44] <trochej> Oh, thats bbq
[13:51:49] <cmihai> lol wtf bbq
[13:51:51] <Cyrille> omgwtf?
[13:51:54] <cmihai> bbq!
[13:52:00] <kszwed> barbie
[13:52:01] <razrX> stop talking trochej before ya hurt yaself
[13:52:02] <razrX> lol
[13:52:18] <cmihai> http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/omgwtfbbq-39352.jpg - BBQ!
[13:52:31] <cmihai> Love that one :-0
[13:52:32] <kaiwai> lol
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[13:53:09] <kaiwai> hmm, tantric tradition is interesting
[13:53:22] <cmihai> Why must you ruin everything?
[13:53:25] <sickness> ghgh
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[13:54:30] <kaiwai> cmihai: me?
[13:55:07] <trochej> razrX: Why? I have hurt myself allowing me to be born, so it's been a long run that way for me
[13:55:54] <trochej> Szlag, baza na drugi xenie nie chodzi po 443
[13:55:57] <razrX> took ya long enuff to respond trochej ;P
[13:56:07] <trygvis> anyone knof if there is an ETA on supporting SMART stuff for SATA/SAS devices?
[13:56:21] <razrX> lol, allowing you to be born, like you had a say in it
[13:56:38] <rasputnik> If I'm running UFS on zvols, does it make sense to set forcedirectio (to bypass the ufs bufcache)?
[13:56:48] <cmihai> trochej, you're Polish?
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[13:56:54] <trochej> razrX: I could always strangle myself with that thingy I don't know an English workd for
[13:56:56] <trochej> cmihai: Ya
[13:56:59] <cmihai> Well, the name was pretty revealing... but...
[13:57:32] <trochej> cmihai: Butts? :)
[13:58:18] <trochej> Oh, wrong window
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[13:58:29] <trochej> With that polish up there
[13:58:32] <cmihai> Nothing, your English is quite good, I can hardly understand most Poles I know :-)
[13:58:37] <razrX> figured that trochej
[13:58:45] <razrX> yus, that is a compliment for trochej
[13:59:41] <trochej> What?
[14:00:01] <razrX> the 1 cmihai made to you trochej : yur English is quite good
[14:00:36] <razrX> i agree with cmihai , i know some Polish ppl and can't make heads or tails most of time what they tryin to say
[14:00:47] <cmihai> Though they're all blackhats or in security :P
[14:01:15] <Cyrille> which may explain why they don't make sense ;-)
[14:01:16] <razrX> cmihai: wouldn't know that but will take ya word for it
[14:01:21] <razrX> lol
[14:01:35] <trochej> cmihai: Simple: they scramble layers 2
[14:02:13] <cmihai> The "Grammar Access Control" Layer?
[14:02:38] <razrX> cmihai: dude, that's wicked :P
[14:02:57] <cmihai> Well, technically speaking it's a sublayer
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[14:03:49] <razrX> now that is a nice handle to have
[14:03:58] <cmihai> That stands below the Logic Link Control Sublayer that's below the phrase link layer.. it's all about layer and encapsulation you see :-)
[14:04:18] <cmihai> razrX, yeah, better then yours, you sound like a Motorola phone :P
[14:04:29] <razrX> unixlust ... no need to be lusty bout unix, rather just get some pr0n instead
[14:04:37] <razrX> lol cmihai
[14:04:41] <razrX> just got the moto razr2
[14:04:56] <razrX> mebbe meh should update his handle
[14:05:53] <trochej> do it
[14:05:55] <trochej> do it
[14:05:58] <trochej> oohhh, yessss
[14:05:59] <cmihai> Jump!
[14:06:01] <trochej> just dooo iiit
[14:06:18] <trochej> uhhhhm
[14:06:19] <cmihai> That's patented, copywrited and a trade mark.
[14:06:31] * trochej skips away to brew some coffe
[14:06:42] <cmihai> That's not a very bad idea :-)
[14:06:49] <razrX> was just about to say mahself
[14:07:04] <cmihai> Gah, need water.
[14:07:25] <razrX> not gonna respond to that
[14:07:28] <cmihai> *afk*
[14:15:08] <trochej> :)
[14:15:25] <trochej> THat sounded like a man that suddently got too much water
[14:15:26] <trochej> :)
[14:15:38] <razrX> hehe
[14:16:25] <cmihai> Coffee's a'brewin'
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[14:17:06] <unixlust> Jesus Christ, Yahoo! sucks hard !
[14:17:19] <razrX> do they swallow too ?
[14:17:42] <unixlust> I removed my old account some months ago, and some kind of idiot recreated it.
[14:17:53] <cmihai> And he got all your emails?
[14:17:58] <unixlust> Yahoo! should of never let anyone use that ID anymore.
[14:18:07] <cmihai> Duh
[14:18:15] <cmihai> Why would you remove your account?
[14:18:20] <unixlust> cmihai, no, but he set gay statuses and avatars, and fooled all my friends that had my old ID in their buddy lists.
[14:18:34] <cmihai> Now this is really your fault.
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[14:18:36] <asyd> S/ 12
[14:18:37] <asyd> oups
[14:18:44] <cmihai> You removed your account, you let him find out...
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[14:20:08] <cmihai> Maybe you should look into PGP, digital signatures and such :-)
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[14:31:13] <unixlust> cmihai, I am 90% sure that they specify on the Yahoo! page that all the removed accounts will be blocked, and never ever will anyone be able to register them again.
[14:31:33] <unixlust> If I only knew...
[14:31:47] <cmihai> Well, then, I guessed they lied, didn't they? You should have read the fine print :-)
[14:33:18] <cmihai> "Be sure you want to delete your entire account, as you won't be able to reactivate it after the account has been deleted. You're always welcome to sign up again for a new account."
[14:33:40] <cmihai> If you deleted the whole account, anyone can recreate it.
[14:34:15] <unixlust> that sucks :|
[14:34:17] <cmihai> They'll also keep billing you for premiums and keep your listings even if you delete your account :P
[14:34:20] <cmihai> (if you have those)
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[15:26:29] <Doc> hmm.. someone thinks they are me on opensolaris.org
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[15:28:39] <razrX> kill him/her Doc
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[15:59:13] <rasputnik> If I'm running UFS on zvols, does it make sense to set forcedirectio (to bypass the ufs bufcache)?
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[16:04:55] <kaiwai> what do you want to accomplish rasputnik ?
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[16:07:32] <rasputnik> kaiwai: there seem to be 2 gotchas with ufs+zvols. 1, if you snapshot at the volume level it may not capture all files written to the fs level (without a sync). 2. you cache twice (in the buffer cache and the ARC). I just wonder if it would be simpler to have 1 cache
[16:08:00] <rasputnik> I'll get filebench down and try it out
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[16:10:24] <kaiwai> ah
[16:10:34] <kaiwai> could you do a forced sync before doing it?
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[16:10:55] <kaiwai> as inelegant is it may sound?
[16:11:04] <elektronkind> lockfs -fa would do it
[16:11:38] <elektronkind> or sync; lockfs -fa
[16:11:41] <rasputnik> kaiwai: oh yes, I think lockfs does it (ah, thanks elektronkind). I was just hoping to sidestep the issue
[16:12:18] <elektronkind> rasputnik: are you running an app which absolutely requires ufs?
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[16:12:35] <rasputnik> elektronkind: it's zones on ZFS, that's all.
[16:12:57] <rasputnik> was hoping this way I can live upgrade them
[16:13:22] <hile_> LU and zone roots on ZFS don't mix the last time I looked.
[16:13:40] <rasputnik> hile_: indeed. but this way, it's zones on ufs
[16:13:51] <timsf> Yeah, but it's liveupgrade and zvols
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[16:13:59] <hile_> LU creates some files under the zonepath whcih makes the zpool not  mount IIRC
[16:14:03] <timsf> I've never tried to liveupgrade a zvol before...
[16:14:06] <rasputnik> timsf: is that no better then?
[16:14:16] <timsf> I don't know to be honest - never tried it.
[16:14:49] <rasputnik> well, I'll keep you posted :) this is an S10u4 machine, but I'll be LUing it as soon as b75 arrives
[16:15:04] <trygvis> what's so cool inb75?
[16:15:09] <trygvis> s,inb,in b,
[16:15:20] <rasputnik> trygvis: Xen (well, we're not allowed to call it that)
[16:15:54] <trygvis> oh, full xen?
[16:16:09] <rasputnik> trygvis: integrated into Nevada, yeah
[16:16:26] <trygvis> shibby! so no more need to get add-ons and stuff?
[16:16:31] <trochej> nope
[16:16:31] <movement> correct.
[16:16:36] <kaiwai> xVM
[16:16:38] <trochej> Just your ole good nevada
[16:17:01] <rasputnik> trygvis: that's my understanding (but then I'm the guy trying to cobble ufs and zfs together, so)
[16:17:06] <kaiwai> IIRC Windows should run on it
[16:17:10] <kaiwai> which will be cool
[16:17:22] <rasputnik> kaiwai: if you've got hardware assist, yes
[16:17:27] <trochej> kaiwai: Only if you get the hardware
[16:17:36] <trochej> I, for one, don't
[16:17:36] <kaiwai> I do :)
[16:17:43] <rasputnik> also NetBSD, FreeBSD, Linuxes of various flavours
[16:17:47] <trochej> I didn't mean THAT hardware
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[16:18:03] <trygvis> so if I have an old p3 cpu, I can only run OSes with xen-enabled kernels, right?
[16:18:06] <trochej> I meant a vm support in CPU and chipset
[16:18:11] <kaiwai> well I have both :) I've just got to enable it in my BIOS
[16:18:12] <trochej> trygvis: Yup
[16:18:16] <rasputnik> trygvis: yes
[16:18:52] <kaiwai> solaris is progressing very well so far
[16:19:06] <trygvis> definitely
[16:19:39] <kaiwai> great engineers too - really helpful when one finds a bug
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[16:22:58] <smtms> kaiwai, do you talk from experience?
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[16:24:19] <Pietro_S> how to easilly change email address in discussions (desktop, laptop, and others...)>
[16:24:48] <Pietro_S> does I need to unsubscribe all and subscribe the new one
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[16:29:36] <trygvis> use the mailman interface
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[16:30:06] <trygvis> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo
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[16:33:11] <kjetilho> has any of you seen a syntax like server:/export/adm:arch/SunOS-5.8 in an automount file?
[16:33:48] <kjetilho> the second colon seems to be synonymous with a slash, and it sort of works
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[16:34:03] <kjetilho> I just don't understand what it means (I didn't write it :)
[16:34:09] <kaiwai> smtms: yeap, every bug I've submitted I've always got a friendly reply back with an enthusiasm to fix the problem found
[16:35:46] <kaiwai> smtms: why is that? are you surprised?
[16:37:05] <Pietro_S> trygvis: thanks
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[16:42:50] <kaiwai> the new sxce b73 includes the new libexpat?
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[16:48:32] <elektronkind> oooh
[16:48:40] <elektronkind> storage porn
[16:48:41] <elektronkind> http://youtube.com/watch?v=mjk7aVeuWsQ
[16:49:05] <elektronkind> oooh man, soft core nfs namespaces
[16:49:07] <kaiwai> well can't be any worse than the 'get perpendicular' one
[16:50:17] <hile_> haha
[16:50:39] <kaiwai> 500KB/s
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[16:50:48] <kaiwai> speedy sun servers I'm downloading off :)
[16:51:00] <cypromis> what is the date for sxce 75 ?
[16:51:09] <kaiwai> in a couple of weeks I'd say
[16:51:11] * cypromis is hunting for the xen stuff
[16:51:17] <kaiwai> apparently 2.20 will appear in it too :)
[16:51:35] <elektronkind> I want to go to a SNIA conference
[16:51:48] * elektronkind makes puppy dog eyes at his boss
[16:51:51] <kaiwai> so yes, you may commence spinning on the ground like Homer simpson going 'woop woop woop' :P
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[16:58:07] <kjetilho> huh, the ":" mentioned earlier indicates the boundary of the exported directory.
[16:58:38] <elektronkind> kinda like how the colon is the boundary for exported human poo
[16:58:39] <kjetilho> there's probably some OS out there with an automounter which cares about it ...
[16:58:53] <peemus> lol
[16:59:06] <kaiwai> automounting is evil
[16:59:19] * kjetilho <3 automounter
[16:59:19] <elektronkind> it's mighty handy
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[16:59:59] <elektronkind> last time I did serious automount stuff was on sunos 4.1.4 with the automount maps being served from Hesiod, though
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[17:00:26] <hile_> then you came to AFS land :)
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[17:00:59] <timsf> I agree it's handy. Wondering how else you manage 35,000 zfs filesystems all being mounted at boot time...
[17:01:02] <elektronkind> heh, well, I didn't come to AFS land on my own ;)
[17:01:24] <timsf> ( eg. http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do?bug_id=6478980 )
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[17:03:29] <kaiwai> hopefully zfs creation/boot won't be too far away from being a reality
[17:03:32] <elektronkind> hile_: It was more like being told "everything will be fine" and then being drugged, beaten, locked in a closet for 16 hours, and then told that I will make afs part of my life
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[17:05:52] <timsf> kawai, yeah me too. Suspect the first indiana preview is the first place you'll see it for real (though I don't know the installer status)
[17:06:07] <hile_> hahah
[17:06:24] <kaiwai> timsf: true; zfs is 'teh snappy' from the last time I used it
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[17:09:30] <WickedWicky> so
[17:09:33] <WickedWicky> lemme ask the obvious
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[17:09:58] <WickedWicky> $ dmesg
[17:09:59] <WickedWicky> dmesg: Cannot find /lib/ld.so.1
[17:09:59] <WickedWicky> Killed
[17:10:03] <kaiwai> hmm
[17:10:05] <WickedWicky> am I supposed to see this
[17:10:07] <kaiwai> thats not good
[17:10:14] <WickedWicky> I thought so
[17:10:19] <WickedWicky> I was compiling onnv_75
[17:10:25] <WickedWicky> and was kinda... not amuzed
[17:10:30] <kaiwai> hmm, you can get a recompiled on btw
[17:10:36] <WickedWicky> it's a bummer on the perfect phone call I got 5 mins before that
[17:10:43] <WickedWicky> I think my disk is stuffed
[17:10:47] <kaiwai> download the marked http://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/20071001/
[17:13:16] <kaiwai> mid week build
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[17:13:41] <WickedWicky> I'll look at home
[17:13:41] <WickedWicky> bbl
[17:13:43] <WickedWicky> laters cuteys
[17:14:10] * kaiwai bushes
[17:14:12] <kaiwai> oh you!
[17:14:19] * kaiwai taps WickedWicky on the sholder
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[17:16:00] <kaiwai> anyone running sxce b73?
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[17:20:13] <peemus> kaiwai: i am
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[17:40:14] <rasputnik> kaiwai: I am
[17:41:05] <peemus> rasputnik: looks like kaiwai left already
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[17:56:31] <Fish-> hello
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[18:27:41] <holcomb> even if svm's days are numbered, vanity naming is cool
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[18:29:06] <kaiwai> hmm
[18:29:09] <e^ipi> hmm... I think i should've left these beans degas a little longer
[18:29:19] <e^ipi> though it is cool to see a cup of crema spew out the portafilter
[18:31:27] <asarch> Do I need special settings in order to use the sound card as a normal user?
[18:31:52] *** peteh has quit IRC
[18:31:55] <kaiwai> the lastest openoffice.org/GPL/LGPL debate is funny
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[18:37:12] <Pietro_S> asarch: no
[18:37:32] <bda> grr. Burned my taquitos.
[18:37:39] <Pietro_S> asarch: do you use oos or sun audio?
[18:37:55] <smtms> kaiwai, where's the debate?
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[18:39:55] <kaiwai> over on slashdot.org
[18:40:24] <bda> http://hell.jedicoder.net/?p=115 # Freakin' awesome.
[18:40:31] <kaiwai> its funny to see the bitching and whining about the lack of GPL usage by Sun, and when Sun does use GPl and sticks to its guns, we have whiners wanting the looser LGPL being used
[18:40:50] <bda> It's not funny. It's just typical /. wankery.
[18:40:59] <bda> It's about as funny as User Friendly.
[18:41:20] <asarch> I don't know Pietro_S
[18:41:24] <asarch> How can I know?
[18:42:22] <kaiwai> bda: userfriendly does have its moments; fucked if I know why so much of the comments on it have nothing to do with the cartoon though
[18:43:10] <bda> UFie stopped being funny about the same time I got out of my "dood linux roolz" phase. Coming of age thing, I think. ;-)
[18:43:32] <bda> Seriously, that jedicoder link is fucking sweet.
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[18:44:11] <kaiwai> bda: hmm, I never went through that phase, I went through the 'amiga rocks' phase though
[18:45:00] <bda> I had a bad year or so when I first started using it in '99. Having never seen anything resembling a UNIX before...
[18:45:11] <bda> Hm, 99? 98, maybe.
[18:45:42] <bda> It has been a long rode to realizing that all software sucks and the only thing you can do is mitigate as much as possible. ;P
[18:45:42] <kaiwai> hmm, my experience was back in 1995
[18:45:55] <kaiwai> got rid of my trust amiga, bought a PC
[18:46:06] <kaiwai> what a  bloody disappointment that was
[18:46:46] <peemus> geez i'm such a noob compared to you guys
[18:47:05] <peemus> didn't play with linux till 2001 and introduced to solaris in 2005
[18:47:17] <kaiwai> before the amiga I had a BBC Micro with 32K memory
[18:47:42] <RealWickedWicky> I think I was mostly stoned in '95 but I cant recall
[18:48:02] <RealWickedWicky> oh, and i had a 286 12mhz with 2MB of ram
[18:48:03] <bda> This morning I added photos to our company blog (sigh) because reading the tiny author text was hard. Now my co-workers are arguing about how to identify posts. "If it has ironic song lyrics, it's bda. If it is nothing but bullet points, it's Rik. Everything else is me."
[18:48:04] <RealWickedWicky> w00t
[18:48:06] <bda> Heh.
[18:48:26] <bda> I wish I had gotten in the habit of reading books and documentation much earlier than I did.
[18:48:29] <RealWickedWicky> upgrading to 4MB was my holiday-jobs money well spent :P
[18:48:30] * bda would suck a lot less now.
[18:48:34] <kaiwai> ah, 13 years ago; those were the days
[18:48:42] <RealWickedWicky> ok
[18:48:42] <RealWickedWicky> home
[18:48:43] <RealWickedWicky> bbl
[18:48:54] <kaiwai> 14 years old - lots of fun
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[19:09:57] <trygvis> what does mountpoint=legacy mean in a zfs?
[19:10:11] <flyingparchment> trygvis: it means zfs won't mount it, it's done instead in vfstab
[19:10:13] <flyingparchment> (or manually)
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[19:10:25] <trygvis> hm
[19:10:28] <trygvis> that's it?
[19:11:42] <sommerfeld> oh, cool.  Software Freedom Law Center, Inc explicitly discourages dual-licensing of code under GPL and more-permissive licenses.
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[19:12:04] <sommerfeld> http://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2007/gpl-non-gpl-collaboration.html, section 4
[19:12:22] <sommerfeld> recommending "just license it under the more permissive license, instead"
[19:12:40] <kjetilho> strange advice, I think?
[19:13:15] <sommerfeld> no, very sensible.
[19:13:46] <g4lt-sb100> right, the GPL people will do it for you regardless if  youdid it the first time
[19:14:05] <sommerfeld> "Common attempts by developers at stating dual license notices tend to be confusing, contradictory, and legally unclear"
[19:14:59] <kjetilho> ah, there is an important caveat: "if [...] there is an established and widespread community understanding that the terms permit incorporation into larger programs covered by the GPL"
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[19:18:45] <trygvis> when adding datasets to a zone, how can I control where they are mounted?
[19:19:11] <sommerfeld> of course, the context-sensitive definition of a "program" comes into play.
[19:20:25] <CIA-26> jm22469: 6605716 halting the system should not override auto-boot? on the next poweron
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[19:22:10] <trygvis> zfs set mountpoint=/yo mypool/fs work
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[19:23:54] <paul> trygvis: hmm, did you want that mount to be zone specific?
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[19:24:20] <trygvis> it has to, it is already delegated to the zone
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[19:27:11] <trygvis> hm, I though I was supposed to be able to control zfs properties on my file systems from within the zone
[19:28:23] <holcomb> you can
[19:28:33] <trygvis> cannot set quota for 'pool0/zones/portal0/local': permission denied
[19:28:46] <trygvis> you can't set properties directly on the exported datapool
[19:28:57] <holcomb> weird
[19:28:59] <trygvis> (it seems)
[19:29:15] <trygvis> not really, if you could you could use as much space as you want to
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[19:29:33] <holcomb> maybe you can't set it higher than it is? (global zone settings take precendence?)
[19:29:36] <trygvis> but it means that I have to do some trickery to get it going
[19:29:37] <RealWickedWicky> awesome, my UFS filesystem gives me the finger
[19:29:40] <Pietro_S> hmm, I installed SFEvim and it looks like it doesn't use colors in terminals :(
[19:29:41] <trygvis> it was unset
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[19:29:43] <holcomb> i just lowered the quota on a zfs filesystem in a zone
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[19:29:51] <trygvis> Pietro_S: is your TERM sane?
[19:30:02] <trygvis> can you up it?
[19:30:11] <holcomb> it was unset
[19:30:36] <trygvis> which solaris version?
[19:30:39] <trygvis> I'm on u2
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[19:30:50] <holcomb> u4
[19:30:53] <trygvis> k
[19:30:54] <holcomb> yeah i can even raise it
[19:31:07] <trygvis> dunno which version I consider a bug :)
[19:31:15] <Pietro_S> trygvis: $TERM=xterm (under xfce-term, same in gnome-term)
[19:31:15] <holcomb> heh
[19:32:22] <trygvis> Pietro_S: odd. try ansi?
[19:34:11] <Triskelios> stevel: hey, I got sponsorship for the flight, thanks!
[19:34:26] <stevel> triskelios: awesome. :) np
[19:34:36] <Pietro_S> trygvis: same
[19:34:51] <trygvis> dunno then
[19:34:53] <stevel> try dtterm
[19:35:16] <Triskelios> stevel: the irony is that the form I'm supposed to submit to amex is a MS Word doc that hangs soffice...
[19:35:26] <stevel> rofl
[19:35:36] <trygvis> holcomb: perhaps it's because how I've mounted them with legacy mount points?
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[19:36:00] <holcomb> could be it
[19:37:24] <Pietro_S> Triskelios: it's handled by agency, which doesn't have anything with sun ... so it's obivius they will want/use doc
[19:39:55] <Pietro_S> huh, looks like I don't have dterm (not in path, nor in /usr)
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[19:40:55] <laca> Pietro_S: /usr/dt/bin/dtterm
[19:42:25] <Pietro_S> laca: thanks
[19:42:32] <Pietro_S> in dterm it use colors
[19:43:04] <stevel> try setting your TERM to be dtterm then
[19:44:54] <Pietro_S> stevel: thanks, this worked well
[19:45:02] <stevel> np
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[19:53:37] <trygvis> hm, I have two zfs file systems which are lofs mounted with vfstab, but it seems that the zfs datasets are not available yet
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[19:53:59] <trygvis> and thus the filesystem/local service fails
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[19:55:04] <asarch> How can I add a .pkg package
[19:55:05] <asarch> ?
[19:55:15] <Triskelios> asarch: pkgadd -d <file>
[19:55:18] <holcomb> pkgadd -d blah.pkg
[19:55:38] <asarch> Thanks Triskelios, holcomb
[19:55:49] <asarch> You have a cool nick name Triskelios
[19:56:15] <asarch> You should write a LiveCD based on OpenSolaris called Triskelios
[19:56:25] <asarch> "TriskeliOS"
[19:56:26] <the-decider> trygvis: I had something similar; just made an init script to mount things after zfs and everything were fired up
[19:56:39] <trygvis> hm, or just use symlinks
[19:56:42] <Triskelios> asarch: hah
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[19:57:26] <the-decider> yeah -- my problem involved mounting some tmpfs mounts on top of some stuff that was in zfs
[19:57:35] <trygvis> kk
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[19:57:51] <asarch> Now I have sound!!!
[19:58:00] <asarch> Let's http://www.smoothjazz.com/
[19:58:00] <trygvis> \o/
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[19:59:05] <trygvis> wtf, I still can't set quotas
[19:59:16] <the-decider> "Smooth Jazz", the only genre that sounds like a laxitive.
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[20:01:26] <elektronkind> I keep thinking it's lolfs
[20:01:34] <elektronkind> han has inodes
[20:01:44] <elektronkind> can*
[20:02:10] <the-decider> mount -F lolfs -o flavor /dev/cheezeburger /cat
[20:02:16] <wesolows> lolfs is ok but its only programmatic interface is for lolcode
[20:03:01] <RealWickedWicky> lol
[20:03:03] <wesolows> someone with lots of time and no useful skills should write a set of wrappers around zfs that makes it lolfs
[20:03:12] <RealWickedWicky> please
[20:03:13] <RealWickedWicky> haha
[20:03:16] <elektronkind> oh man, lovely idea
[20:03:25] <wesolows> run it by the SFE lists
[20:03:30] <Triskelios> let's make it a contest
[20:03:31] <RealWickedWicky> yes yes, wait , gonna file an RFE
[20:03:43] <wesolows> no RFE please
[20:03:47] <wesolows> it's not an enhancement
[20:03:50] <wesolows> it's a joke
[20:03:55] <RealWickedWicky> duh
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[20:04:01] <RealWickedWicky> I'm dutch but not stupid
[20:04:07] <the-decider> BSARC case? ;)
[20:04:21] <wesolows> yes but if you file the rfe someone will look at it and not get the joke and get annoyed
[20:04:32] <RealWickedWicky> I wasnt really gonna file the RFE of course
[20:04:35] <RealWickedWicky> *sigh*
[20:04:42] <wesolows> BSARC?
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[20:04:47] <the-decider> It wouldn't be totally crazy to create an lolspeak localization
[20:04:48] * RealWickedWicky gives wesolows a candy
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[20:04:59] *** RealWickedWicky is now known as WickedWicky
[20:05:02] <wesolows> yes, it would
[20:05:15] <wesolows> unless you were doing it to learn about l10n
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[20:07:15] <asarch> Is a very pleasure enviroment been working with Solaris and listeing Smooth Jazz
[20:07:55] * wesolows rocks out to hardcore punk and metal while writing Solaris code
[20:09:29] *** Murmuria has left #opensolaris
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[20:10:55] * WickedWicky is listening to Smashing Pumpkin's Zeitgeist while installing zones on a netra v240
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[20:13:14] <bigjohnto>  hi all, If my /opt ufs filesystem is 100% full, is there any way to add more space to it?
[20:13:59] <asarch> That's *ONLY* for when you are working on the Kernel wesolows
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[20:14:28] * sommerfeld generally doesn't listen to music while coding because as a classically trained musician he listens too analytically and gets distracted.
[20:14:43] <WickedWicky> hahaha
[20:14:58] <the-decider> sommerfeld: usually do ambient stuff, so the structure is minimal.
[20:15:11] <asarch> How can I mount a NFS partition?
[20:15:18] <asarch> There is no man for mount :(
[20:15:21] <the-decider> its more to drown out the cries of the tortured slaves
[20:15:33] <WickedWicky> mount -F nfs server:mountpoint /local_mountpoint
[20:15:36] <the-decider> ...er. I mean employees
[20:15:42] <asarch> Thanks WickedWicky
[20:15:49] <wesolows> bigjohnto: see growfs(1M)
[20:15:50] <WickedWicky> np!
[20:15:51] <sommerfeld> bigjohnto: there are ways but it's usually painful.
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[20:16:23] <wesolows> problem is, most people have some other slice after it on the disk and can't do it anyway
[20:16:45] <the-decider> growfs?  Huh... I just pop an enzyte.
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[20:19:07] <bigjohnto> thanks
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[20:20:28] <asarch> How can I specify the read and write options?
[20:21:07] <elektronkind> see the mount_nfs man page
[20:21:29] <elektronkind> it's all in there
[20:22:14] <sommerfeld> the-decider: maybe I should try "Underground Overlays from the Cistern Chapel", then (http://www.newalbion.com/NA076/)
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[20:23:34] <asarch> Thanks
[20:24:17] <elektronkind> Secret Currents... now that track sounds nice
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[20:24:30] * elektronkind DJs ambient stuff, can has appreciation
[20:28:32] <elektronkind> hey, and that sample is in the same key as this other track I'm listening to at the same time
[20:28:41] <elektronkind> the two mix well
[20:29:17] <elektronkind> damn, the tempo is spot on too
[20:30:00] <elektronkind> thanks for pointing that album out, sommerfeld
[20:30:52] * sommerfeld has played trombone for many years and is getting a grip on bass trombone...
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[20:32:15] <elektronkind> the "carrier wave" of a reverb'd trombone has this excellent warm synth pad sound
[20:33:34] <the-decider> also seems to be overlaying well with phutureprimitive.
[20:33:49] <elektronkind> it's a nice two-layer track
[20:33:55] <elektronkind> drone + trombone stabs
[20:34:08] <the-decider> Sheldon would dig it.
[20:34:51] <elektronkind> he would
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[20:37:58] <sommerfeld> the space it was recorded in was apparently fairly amazing -- behaves in a way that normally only happens with artificial/electronic reverb.
[20:38:50] <elektronkind> I'd say that it's the electronic reverbs that seek to immitate the impuse response of rooms like that ;)
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[20:39:01] <elektronkind> impulse, rather
[20:40:51] <elektronkind> IR recordings is how electronic reverb modeling is done now. Record a predetermined waveform in a physical space, encode the impulse response in software, and the reverb software mimics it
[20:41:12] <elektronkind> and applies it to whatever audio you push through it
[20:41:39] <elektronkind> so if you like the reverb your tiled bathroom has, you can emulate it easily
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[20:52:29] <sommerfeld> for those who only sing well in the shower...
[20:52:35] <WickedWicky> that'd be me
[20:52:39] <WickedWicky> and even that is discussable
[20:53:18] <the-decider> if the reverb doesn't work, just add more cowbell.
[20:53:35] <WickedWicky> I play it safe and stay with 'singing' death and black metal :P
[20:53:51] <WickedWicky> RAWR \m/
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[21:00:30] <PerterB> so sort of "Ace of Spades" but a capella?
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[21:07:37] <peemus> where is the "correct" place for installing compiled software (mysql)? /opt?
[21:07:49] <elektronkind> anywhere you want
[21:08:17] <elektronkind> some like /usr/local, some prefer /opt. Others something else like /local
[21:08:35] <sommerfeld> anywhere that won't confuse other people administering the machine
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[21:08:42] <peemus> heh
[21:08:45] <peemus> ok
[21:08:54] <elektronkind> I wouldn't suggest /usr as the prefix though
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[21:09:12] <peemus> i know /usr/local is kind of standard for linux but it doesn't exist in solaris
[21:09:23] <elektronkind> that's because you make it
[21:09:42] <elektronkind> it's standard for GNU, not just linux
[21:09:46] <peemus> so what location do you use?
[21:09:47] <peemus> ah
[21:10:06] <hile_> peemus: see filesystem(5)
[21:10:30] <elektronkind> you can find /usr/local's on AIX, solaris, HPUX and so on
[21:10:35] <sommerfeld> peemus: mkdir /usr/local
[21:10:39] <kjetilho> I don't recommend /usr/local since stuff like GCC look in /usr/local/include unconditionally, even when you don't want it to override /usr/include
[21:10:41] <sommerfeld> now it exists!
[21:11:01] <kjetilho> (well, it used to, at least.  haven't checked recently)
[21:11:10] <peemus> thanks sommerfeld, i know how to make a directory :) i just meant it wasn't there by default
[21:11:37] <WickedWicky> that's cause optional packages should go in /opt really :s
[21:12:49] <RElling> peemus: /usr/sfw/bin/mysql is taken, so you'll want to put it someplace else
[21:13:00] <WickedWicky> even the companion cd of solaris 9 and such put SFW stuff in /opt/sfw
[21:13:17] <kjetilho> FWIW, I use /local
[21:13:31] <peemus> RElling: yeah, i was thinking /opt/mysql-5.0.45
[21:13:33] <kjetilho> depends on how you like to layout your disks, though
[21:14:02] <kjetilho> inside /local I use Encap for simple package handling.
[21:14:08] <tomww> I have another one: /opt/tomww/ so no accidents should happen
[21:14:12] <WickedWicky> admitedly I have a ZFS file system /lilith/db-data /lilith/www-data /lilith/ftp-data /lilith/downloads /lilith/random
[21:14:25] <RElling> I hate putting versions in upper-level directory names :-P
[21:14:46] <WickedWicky> and packages go to /opt/ and GNU to /opt/sfw
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[21:15:52] <peemus> so maybe something like /opt/sfw/mysql/mysql-5.0.45 ?
[21:16:05] <WickedWicky> or /opt/mysql
[21:16:27] <peemus> that works too
[21:16:36] <peemus> looks prettier
[21:16:40] <peemus> i'll go with that
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[21:18:33] <holcomb> you could put it in /opt/mysql-vers then have a symlink mysql -> mysql-vers
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[21:19:01] <holcomb> (just another option)
[21:19:13] <kjetilho> check out Encap :-)
[21:19:40] <kjetilho> (or Graft, or Depot -- they're similar)
[21:19:40] <holcomb> uiuc.edu - i like it already
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[21:49:11] <kjetilho> disks in a raidz must be the same size, right?  how well will it work to split the larger disks in two slices so that you get one wide raidz with all disks included, and one raidz with just the tail end of all the larger disks?
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[21:52:23] <flyingparchment> kjetilho: if the larger disk fails, you will lose two vdevs and your data is lost
[21:52:43] <kjetilho> ah...
[21:52:43] <flyingparchment> or do you mean having two separate pools?
[21:53:03] <kjetilho> no...
[21:53:43] <kjetilho> consider you have 4x500 GB.  of this, you'd set aside 2x30 GB for system
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[21:53:49] <peemus> as long as each disk is only in a raidz once you should be fine
[21:55:20] <peemus> meaning a disk can have different slices belonging to different raidz's but not more than one slice to the same raidz (or you'd loose the raidz when that disk failed)
[21:55:23] <kjetilho> peemus: will ZFS understand that it has complete control over 2 of the disks when it get just some slices?
[21:55:31] <kjetilho> wrt. enabling caching
[21:56:10] <peemus> not sure, i'm not really a zfs expert - some of the other guys in here might know though
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[21:59:59] <Stric> kjetilho: I'm not sure, but I'm guessing at "no"
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[22:20:56] <pok> Hi.  kjetilho was actually asking that question on my behalf.  I decided to go ahead and try making the raidz group out the different sized devices.  zfs didn't complain at the command "zpool create zfs-pool raidz /dev/dsk/c1d0p2 /dev/dsk/c2d0p2 /dev/dsk/c3d0 /dev/dsk/c4d0"
[22:22:03] <pok> zpool list reports a total size of 1.73T, which is in the ballpark I would expect.
[22:22:43] <kjetilho> perhaps it just ignores the superfluous disk space from the dedicated disks?
[22:23:26] <pok> Could be.  I can live with that.
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[22:24:33] <sommerfeld> kjetilho: that's precisely what it does.  it checks the disk size at pool open time (boot or zpool import)
[22:24:52] <sommerfeld> if it finds that disks have grown at that time it expands the pool
[22:25:04] <kjetilho> wow.
[22:25:08] <sommerfeld> did that recently replacing 73G with 146G disks
[22:25:27] <kjetilho> resilvering one at a time?
[22:25:40] <pok> neat.
[22:26:05] <sommerfeld> well, the pool started as 44x73G (11 raidz sets of 4)
[22:26:20] <sommerfeld> it's now 11 x 4 x 146G
[22:26:31] <sommerfeld> i did up to 11 replaces at a time.
[22:26:53] <kjetilho> whoa, nice stress test
[22:27:18] <sommerfeld> and ran scrubs in between each set of replaces just to be sure.
[22:28:22] <sommerfeld> this started off as a bit of a scramble because 3 of the 44 73G disks had gone bad on me in various ways.
[22:29:27] <sommerfeld> (they were ancient disk arrays considered surplus by other groups)
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[22:31:53] <Silveira_Neto> Hi guys, This Open Solaris starter kit (dlc.sun.com/osol/starter_kit/downloads/) its a solaris distribution or just slides?
[22:33:02] <wesolows> it's actually a DVD (set?) with more than one distribution, if it's the thing I'm thinking of
[22:33:52] <Silveira_Neto> cause I downloaded the CD version (there are DVD and CD versions) but i could not find a distro inside of it
[22:37:55] <stevel> Silveira_Neto: the CD is just the learning materials, no distribution
[22:38:13] <WickedWicky> you wanna go here
[22:38:13] <WickedWicky> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/downloads/on/
[22:38:21] <WickedWicky> and download the DVD or CD version from there
[22:39:28] <Silveira_Neto> thanks
[22:39:37] <WickedWicky> no problem
[22:39:57] <WickedWicky> ok
[22:39:58] * WickedWicky is off
[22:39:59] <WickedWicky> night all
[22:44:31] <kjetilho> sommerfeld: btw, I'm a bit surprised you only had 4 wide raidz vdevs.  why?
[22:47:41] <sommerfeld> kjetilho: 1) pool was created before raidz2 was an option 2) the nature of the storage I had to play with made 4-wide raidz1 the best option.
[22:48:33] <sommerfeld> originally was on two A5200's; each has 22 disks and can be split into two 11-disk fiberchannel loops.  some failure modes take out the entire loop.
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[22:48:55] <sommerfeld> so 4 loops, 4-disk raidz sets.
[22:49:05] <RElling> some failure modes take out both (redundant) loops :-(
[22:49:18] <RElling> I agree with the split loop choice
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[22:50:09] <sommerfeld> (yeah, i left out that part for simplicity.  it could be 4 loops in split loop mode)
[22:51:52] <Silveira_Neto> I'm trying to get solaris express editor, but there is CD1, CD2, CD3... CD6 I have do donwload them all to install solaris10 in my computer?
[22:52:53] <stevel> hey glynn
[22:53:14] <cmihai> Silveira_Neto, "editor"?
[22:53:59] <Silveira_Neto> ops, edition
[22:54:05] <cmihai> WHAT edition
[22:54:09] <cmihai> Developer or Community?
[22:54:14] <Silveira_Neto> Solaris Express build 73 CD 1, English
[22:54:15] <cmihai> In fact, nevermind, get SXCE 73
[22:54:21] <cmihai> Get the DVD
[22:54:36] <Silveira_Neto> But, If I want to get the CD, I have to get all 6 CDS?
[22:54:41] <cmihai> Yep
[22:54:51] <cmihai> And you'd better do a full install too, or you'll be sorry.
[22:55:02] <Silveira_Neto> ok.
[22:55:16] <cmihai> Just pick Full Install + OEM
[22:55:35] <cmihai> Partitioning is a bit "tricking" at first install, make sure you leave room for a /altroot... if you want LU
[22:55:55] <cmihai> Silveira_Neto, here, read this: http://unixsadm.blogspot.com/2007/08/liveupgrade-sxce.html
[22:56:09] <cmihai> Basically, if you plan on following SXCE, the best way to do that is via LiveUpgrades.
[22:57:34] <cmihai> It means that every time you want to upgrade to a newer release of SXCE, you download the DVD iso, mount it and liveupgrade to an alternate environment.
[22:59:43] <tomww> and if the new env does not do what it should, simply reboot the old one.
[23:00:12] <tomww> this implies putting *all* userdata onto a separate slice, e.g. into a ZFS pool what would be best
[23:00:26] <cmihai> Yeah
[23:00:54] <Silveira_Neto> Thanks for the adivice. But, its my first Solaris I'll donwload (except by Belenix but I got a lot of troble about some SSE2 instructions). I don't have band nor space here to download a DVD, I'll log in my college and them download it by wget. But there's a Solaris DVD image that I can download that way?
[23:01:26] <cmihai> I usually use fast SCSI / FC disks for the OS.. usually 2 (in mirror) or 4 in RAID 10... 36 / 72 GB disks are more then enough... and keep external storage :-).
[23:01:32] <tomww> it comes in pieces you have to concat on your own.
[23:01:40] <cmihai> Silveira_Neto, yep, opensolaris.org - downloads - sxce - dvd
[23:01:51] <cmihai> You can use Sun Download Manager too
[23:02:04] <cmihai> It's a webstart java app
[23:02:12] <Silveira_Neto>  But I need to download them by an ssh terminal, with wget!
[23:02:17] <cmihai> Whatever
[23:02:49] <cmihai> Silveira_Neto, just read my post, scroll a bit down, it covers the concatenation part and mounting iso's, etc.
[23:03:07] <cmihai> best part about LU is you never need to burn media once you've got one working solaris install :-)
[23:03:20] <Silveira_Neto> That sounds good
[23:03:22] <cmihai> (and if you JumpStart you never need to burn media period)
[23:03:53] <tomww> the wget questions is still open. how to find out the temporary download-links if any... (never downloaded myself, ever had other ways to access it..)
[23:04:10] <cmihai> right mouse - copy donwload link :-\
[23:04:24] <cmihai> Once you accept their license, you can just copy the link over.
[23:04:31] <Silveira_Neto> cmihai, no way is that easy
[23:04:33] <cmihai> Or use lynx / links / elinks
[23:04:43] <cmihai> Silveira_Neto, is what easy
[23:04:46] <tomww> elinks +1
[23:05:33] <Silveira_Neto> A lot of people facing this problem to download solaris, http://ianmurdock.com/2007/06/08/where-do-i-download-opensolaris/
[23:06:08] <cmihai> I've actually done VMware Jumpstart servers because I had no dvd media handy :-). Install from DVD iso in VMware, make a JumpStart server, jumpstar the machine :D
[23:06:13] <cmihai> No meedia needed.
[23:06:16] <cmihai> Silveira_Neto, heh what?
[23:06:24] <cmihai> opensolaris.org, click downloads in the upper right corner
[23:07:09] <Silveira_Neto> I can't just tell my friend or put on my blog a link like http://192.18.108.148/ECom/EComTicketServlet/BEGINC784A9628450693234A8629EA16D3C33/127025259/2383488339/1/858842/858650/2383488339/2ts+/westCoastFSEND/Sol-Express_b73-DVD-x86-SP-G-B/Sol-Express_b73-DVD-x86-SP-G-B:13/sol-nv-b73-sparc-dvd-iso-a.zip
[23:07:24] <quasi> Silveira_Neto: the minimal intelligence test - if you can't find a place to download it, you most likely won't be capable of installing it
[23:07:25] <cmihai> No
[23:07:25] <Silveira_Neto> (this is the first piece of 3, is not a .iso file)
[23:07:35] <cmihai> OF FFS
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[23:07:41] <cmihai> Read this http://unixsadm.blogspot.com/2007/08/liveupgrade-sxce.html
[23:07:49] <cmihai> cat sol-nv-b69-x86-dvd-iso-a sol-nv-b69-x86-dvd-iso-b sol-nv-b69-x86-dvd-iso-c > sol-nv-b69-x86-dvd.iso or
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[23:07:52] <quasi> http://www.opensolaris.org/sxce_dvd works very time
[23:07:58] <cmihai> copy a + b + c + d + e bla.iso in windows
[23:08:06] <Silveira_Neto> ok, don't care about users, make solaris dificult to find , we will have a great sucess
[23:08:09] <cmihai> erm
[23:08:10] <cmihai> copy /b
[23:08:21] <cmihai> How is it difficult?
[23:08:26] <cmihai> Ever tried getting debian?
[23:08:29] <cmihai> They tell you about Jidgo
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[23:08:33] <bda> ...Logging into the site and clicking "downloads" is difficult?
[23:08:34] <cmihai> Assemble stuff from random mirrors etc
[23:08:38] <bda> Jidgo was the worse idea ever.
[23:08:39] <Silveira_Neto> Debian is the harder to download
[23:08:54] <Silveira_Neto> Its horrible
[23:09:05] * bda hugs FAI.
[23:09:17] <tomww> oh, jigdo might be a good thing for people behind low bandwith connections. there are many out there.
[23:09:29] <Silveira_Neto> In debian you have to read 10 pages to discovery that is 50 ways to download debian, none of them you can just click and download
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[23:09:41] <cmihai> If you're clueless, yeah
[23:09:44] <cmihai> but if you're not..
[23:09:45] <bda> I dont' think that's actually true anymore.
[23:09:54] <cmihai> you just ftp favourite.mirror.yourcountry/debian/dvd
[23:09:57] <cmihai> get *iso
[23:10:00] <bda> Nope. They fixed it.
[23:10:24] * bda hasn't actually downloaded a Debian ISO in a while. :P
[23:10:47] <cmihai> Well, you only need netinst, so...
[23:11:07] <cmihai> And again, the only open source OS I tend to use nowadays is OpenBSD
[23:11:09] <tomww> and a connection with enough bandwidth...
[23:11:26] <cmihai> The others just make me sick :P
[23:12:10] <bda> Heh, I just use FAI for all my installs. Mirror repo, wait a few minutes, box is up.
[23:13:01] <bda> cmihai: OBSD has gotten so easy to upgrade it's ridiculous.
[23:13:08] <cmihai> I have a few debian boxes, but I guess I'll replace them all with Zones soon enough :-)
[23:13:22] <bda> Recently on misc@ they were arguing about replacing the installer. Wanted to steal from FreeBSD's... wtf.
[23:13:30] <cmihai> bda, are you using some script? Or just bsd.rd and pkg_add -u?
[23:13:34] <cmihai> bda, huh wtf?
[23:13:35] <tomww> just tried the download-links for opensolaris. not a very good idea, to have such 300 char long URLs. ther should be an automatic "tinyurl.com" build in, so the could continue to count downloads but stop annoying pepole having to manually type in the links into theyr download-machine...
[23:13:37] <bda> Heh, yeah, I'm doing that. More slowly than I'd like, but it's happening. :)
[23:13:38] <cmihai> sysinstall stucks
[23:14:24] <bda> cmihai: I end up scripting it, but it's just... grab tarballs/untar/reboot/pkg_add -u... done. So much nicer than it used to be.
[23:14:25] <cmihai> tomww, manually type... wtf?
[23:14:35] <bda> And it has never fucked me over, which is the important part.
[23:14:40] <Silveira_Neto> tomww, If I'm in a presentation, to newbie users, I you tell them to download in a 500 chars url?
[23:14:49] <bda> wtf
[23:14:54] <cmihai> WTF are you guys doing
[23:15:03] <cmihai> why would the URL matter
[23:15:05] <bda> cmihai: Yes, it was a couple weeks ago. Big long idiotic thread.
[23:15:33] <Silveira_Neto> cmihai, beacause in the real world, things need to be simple to be sucessfull
[23:15:43] <Silveira_Neto> easy to download, easy to install
[23:15:48] <cmihai> ...
[23:15:49] <bda> ...
[23:15:59] <cmihai> You know, Solaris is the simplest OS to install.
[23:15:59] <Silveira_Neto> easy to use
[23:16:03] <cmihai> Really.
[23:16:07] <cmihai> Did you even check the new installer?
[23:16:10] <cmihai> it has like 6 steps
[23:16:19] <Silveira_Neto> Yeah, I saw the new installer, very very good.
[23:16:28] <Silveira_Neto> I have no complains about it
[23:17:00] <cmihai> As for the download, I really don't see your point. There is NO valid reason other than stupidity to type that URL in yourself.
[23:17:07] <alanc> Silveira_Neto: if you're in a presentation, use the short URL's, like the ones in the topic of this channel or the channel welcome message
[23:17:26] <cmihai> As quasi pointed out, it'
[23:17:30] <cmihai> s as simple as http://www.opensolaris.org/sxce_dvd
[23:18:00] <cmihai> It will automagically point you to the latest release.
[23:18:48] <cmihai> Once you type in your username and click "accept", select all, download that's about it. As for the splitting into multiple files, that necessary to avoid filesystem and tools limitations.
[23:18:59] <Silveira_Neto> But by those first years, is not a problem. Now opensolaris is aimed in developers, people with curiosity, but some day we will need more users, and them we need to correct these dificults.
[23:19:03] <cmihai> Some older wgets for example would stop at 2GB, same goes for ZIP. Or 4GB for FAT32, etc.
[23:19:25] <alanc> and the disaster that is the download of that is because you're not just downloading opensolaris, but the full Solaris, which mixes open and closed/third party bits, which is why Ian Murdock's fix is to create an open/freely redistributable-only distro that doesn't have all that crud required
[23:19:46] <Silveira_Neto> Anyway, I hope in a presentation have free solaris DVDs in my hands to give to the people \o/ :D
[23:20:03] <bda> Oh boy. From download to install to "ease of use" and now Indiana...
[23:20:06] * bda flees.
[23:20:11] <cmihai> Jesus mate, Sun even ships free Solaris DVDs, I really can't see how it is difficult.
[23:20:28] 
[23:20:42] <WickedWicky> there, in his own language, now it should be clear
[23:20:43] <cmihai> Welcome to akamai.
[23:20:51] <quasi> cmihai: first you've gotta figure out which side is up on the dvd ;)
[23:20:58] <cmihai> The distributed mirroring system that makes sure I get 4MB/s downloads.
[23:21:03] <Silveira_Neto> :/
[23:21:07] <cmihai> quasi, I propose a new fix!
[23:21:10] <cmihai> Double sided DVDs
[23:21:12] <WickedWicky> serio, e tao simples
[23:21:13] <cmihai> same thing on each side
[23:21:46] <palowoda> Ship Opensolaris DVD's in Linux magazines.
[23:21:50] 
[23:22:29] <WickedWicky> se alguem nem dah pra entrar um URL como http://www.opensolaris.org/sxce_dvd ele nem tem como usar o internet
[23:22:49] <WickedWicky> that reads for the non portuguese speakers: if someone cant even enter a URL like http://www.opensolaris.org/sxce_dvd he has nothing to look for on the internet
[23:23:05] 
[23:23:11] <cmihai> Actually, I understand portuguese pretty well for some reason.
[23:23:21] <WickedWicky> you dates brazilian girls like me?
[23:23:24] <Silveira_Neto> cmihai, :P
[23:23:25] <WickedWicky> er
[23:23:26] <WickedWicky> , like me
[23:23:28] <WickedWicky> not like me
[23:23:31] * WickedWicky is not a hot latina
[23:23:46] <cmihai> hehe
[23:23:52] <Silveira_Neto> WickedMicky, from wich state you are?
[23:23:55] <WickedWicky> None
[23:23:57] <WickedWicky> I am dutch
[23:24:03] <sommerfeld> .nl
[23:24:11] 
[23:24:16] <WickedWicky> I dates two brasileiras (one from Sao Luis, one from Rio) and lived one year in Brazil
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[23:24:33] <cmihai> Romance languages are easy
[23:25:32] <Silveira_Neto> WickedWicky, lived where?
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[23:26:09] <WickedWicky> first two months in Curitiba, then I moved to Rio de Janeiro
[23:26:20] <Silveira_Neto> when in brazil
[23:26:27] <WickedWicky> three years ago
[23:27:45] 
[23:27:51] <WickedWicky> OHHHHHHHHHH
[23:27:53] <WickedWicky> Fortaleza?
[23:27:58] <Silveira_Neto> yeah
[23:28:31] <WickedWicky> cool
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[23:30:23] <WickedWicky> either way, ppl here have a point. When your friends cant read english well or fill in a form in english
[23:30:30] <WickedWicky> administering a unix machine will be hard
[23:30:40] <WickedWicky> how are they gonna look things up or read up manuals and all?
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[23:31:32] <Silveira_Neto> my friends can, but general public, maybe not. But now it's not a problem, communities will be created, manuals will be writen, just like happens with Linux
[23:31:42] <WickedWicky> entao
[23:32:07] <Silveira_Neto> With a little of time, we'll see that.
[23:32:17] <wesolows> hopefully a little better, frankly
[23:32:18] <g4lt-sb100> god help us all
[23:32:36] <wesolows> most GNU/Linux documentation is, well, inadequate
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[23:33:21] <Silveira_Neto> :P
[23:34:08] <Silveira_Neto> Talking about GNU/Linux, There is some project like named GNU/Solaris? I have seen something about a Solaris kernel in a Debian system :O
[23:34:19] <g4lt-sb100> inadequace anti-defamation societiey on liune one for you wesolows
[23:34:36] <sommerfeld> is english widely taught in brazilian schools?   (just curious)
[23:34:37] <stevel> Silveira_Neto: http://www.gnusolaris.org
[23:35:00] <WickedWicky> sommerfeld: no
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[23:35:14] <Silveira_Neto> sommerfeld, a very very poor english, but who wants, there are good english schools
[23:35:48] <cygnusecks> can someone point me at the latest webrev? I followed the link from a recent webrev and got one that wasn't mercurial-aware
[23:36:08] <jmcp> Silveira_Neto: there's no GNU/Solaris, but there's a distro called Nexenta which uses the GNU userland
[23:36:18] <cygnusecks> http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/tools/scripts/webrev.sh  <--- doesn't appear to be mercurial-aware
[23:36:32] <Silveira_Neto> I have seen some pics of Nextenta, seems like Ubuntu :D
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[23:36:55] <jmcp> cygnusecks: no it
[23:36:57] <jmcp> it's not, unfortunately
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[23:37:08] <jmcp> the version in the onnv-scm repo is, however
[23:37:18] <cygnusecks> whgat's weird is I found the link at the bottom of a webrev of a mercurial repo :)
[23:37:24] <hile_> morning jmcp
[23:37:28] <jmcp> gday hile_
[23:37:37] <cygnusecks> so wondering if some links need to be updated in some source somewhere
[23:37:38] <jmcp> I should really get around to fixing that webrev stuff
[23:37:40] <FireflyST> is nv_73 out yet?
[23:37:56] <WickedWicky> morning jmcp
[23:37:57] * stevel points at the topic
[23:37:59] <WickedWicky> and night all
[23:38:08] <WickedWicky> maintenance at 4am, gotta love it
[23:38:11] * WickedWicky &
[23:38:18] <jmcp> hi WickedWicky
[23:38:21] <kjetilho> interesting, Solaris has full translation for Italian and Spanish (etc), but not Portuguese.
[23:38:22] <stevel> cygnusecks: use the one from ssh://anon at hg dot opensolaris.org/hg/scm-migration/onnv-scm
[23:38:34] <jmcp> hi stevel
[23:38:38] <stevel> hey jmcp
[23:38:38] <cygnusecks> k, thanks.. giving it a shot now
[23:38:53] <stevel> cygnusecks: it's an on-going project that intends to putback to the main onnv-gate, and once it does the link will be correct
[23:38:55] <jmcp> stevel: have you started your new job yet?
[23:39:04] <stevel> jmcp: yup, i'm on day 2 right now ;-)
[23:39:10] <cygnusecks> cool..just figured it'd been done, but I understand
[23:39:15] <jmcp> steleman: ok so far I guess
[23:39:22] <cygnusecks> I hd a hacked up version I had been using for a while but wanted to switch to the real deal
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[23:41:14] <pitty> i have a solaris 10 update 2 build running on a hp dl385s, after rebuilding 2 of them, they automatically locked up and remain frozen. does anyone know of problems with 5.10 update 2 on hp hardware?
[23:41:51] <kjetilho> pitty: yes, on DL385 G1
[23:42:09] <pitty> any suggested work around ?
[23:42:31] <kjetilho> I'm sorry, my mind is drawing a blank, and I can't access my notes at work.
[23:42:53] <pitty> i heard about some modification to the /etc/system file
[23:42:56] <jmcp> kjetilho: lockup on boot, or at some point afterwards?
[23:42:57] <kjetilho> it's related to the memory scrubbing function
[23:43:17] <kjetilho> so it happens after a dozen hours or so, depending on how much RAM you have in it
[23:43:26] <pitty> yeah, that's so true
[23:43:34] <pitty> that's exactly my sympton
[23:44:02] <kjetilho> you can turn off the scrubbing in /etc/system, but I don't remember the name of the variable
[23:44:16] <jmcp> ok, so you can add      set snooping=1    to /etc/system
[23:44:25] <jmcp> that'll turn on the deadman timer
[23:44:31] <jmcp> I don't recall the anti-scrubber setting
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[23:44:56] <pitty> ok, i will search for it, thanks for input
[23:45:03] <hile_> I thought it was almost always SOP to turn on the deadman timer
[23:45:08] <kjetilho> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-bugs/2006-September/000676.html
[23:45:24] <jmcp> pitty: you probably want to boot with kmdb enabled, too
[23:45:59] <pitty> how do i add that to the grub menu line?
[23:46:10] <kjetilho> grub?
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[23:46:24] <jmcp> yeah
[23:46:25] <pitty> the kernel boot loader before the os starts up
[23:46:37] <tomww> /boot/grub/menu.lst
[23:46:38] <cygnusecks> stevel:  I grabbed the latest webrev from the giant webrev that's generated nightly.  tried to run it and it complains: about a 'print' error.. known issue? this is on stock snv_72
[23:46:39] <jmcp> edit the kernel line in /boot/grub/menu.lst, add     -k    to it
[23:46:47] <cygnusecks>  /tmp/webrev.sh[1830]: print: bad option(s)
[23:46:50] <kjetilho> oh, the kmdb thing
[23:46:57] <pitty> yeah, that ,
[23:47:12] <cygnusecks> line 1830 is this: "                print -u2 "-l option only applies to TeamWare""
[23:47:18] <cygnusecks> so I presume the -l is somehow being passed to the print builtin
[23:47:21] <RElling> interesting... X4150 uses a USB-to-IDE for its CD/DVD... whodathunk?
[23:47:35] * pitty thinks this channel really rocks !
[23:47:55] <jmcp> pitty: only because we're not jiving
[23:48:12] <elektronkind> RElling: I wouldn't doubt it. Chipsets without PATA are a reality as much as motherboard which are PCIe slotted only
[23:48:46] <dlg_> you can get sata dvd drives
[23:48:50] <cygnusecks> ah I see the issue: I ran 'webrev -l' on a mercurial repo, and -l is only good for teamware in this version of mercurial, but the error message is improperly calling ksh's print builtin
[23:48:51] <RElling> I would've guessed SATA DVD...
[23:48:53] <dlg_> theyre pretty cool
[23:49:22] <elektronkind> RElling: on a server, I'd say that would be a waste of a sata port ;)
[23:49:30] * jmcp mutters that support for sata dvd is coming soon
[23:49:41] <RElling> :-)
[23:49:50] <elektronkind> hell, servers shouldn't have them at all imo
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[23:50:21] <kjetilho> as long as they drop the VGA port, I'm happy.
[23:50:24] <trygvis> do I have do some magic to get "passwd" to update the user's password in LDAP?
[23:50:56] * elektronkind admits he did get a kick once out of using a E6800/D240 as a audio cd player once
[23:51:03] <RElling> elektronkind: been there, tried that -- it may be less expensive to just add it than to deal with the ordering/manufacturing costs
[23:51:23] <RElling> ... of making it optional
[23:51:32] * sommerfeld wonders how elektronkind could hear the music over the fan noise
[23:52:07] <elektronkind> yeah, at least optional. I like the x4(1|2)00 layout. two SAS and a optical drive or 4 SAS and no optical
[23:52:16] <elektronkind> sommerfeld: headphones plugged into the CDROM ;)
[23:52:34] <kjetilho> trygvis: pam_ldap should be able to do it for you if it's set up right.  I have never tried it, though.
[23:52:41] <sommerfeld> noise-cancelling headphones?
[23:53:04] <elektronkind> yes, sennheisers. is was good enough
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[23:53:15] <RElling> elektronkind: the new chassis has 8 disks + DVD (1 or 2 RU)
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[23:53:40] <_mw46_> quick question;-) what reads/acts on /etc/default/init??
[23:53:40] <trygvis> kjetilho: yeah, I thought so, but no go. as root I'm asked for the user's old password
[23:53:51] <cygnusecks> sennheiser.. do they make a noise-cancelling model that cups over the ear ?
[23:53:52] <elektronkind> RElling: yeah, I'm interesting is seeing if a 3.5" SATA drive option will be available for them
[23:54:07] <_mw46_> what would it take to make changes visible?
[23:54:12] <kjetilho> trygvis: oh, but how would the LDAP server accept the change without binding as the user himself?
[23:54:12] <elektronkind> cygnusecks: HD240 Pro. They're studio cans, really
[23:54:17] <RElling> elektronkind: not to my knowledge... too power hungry :-)
[23:54:21] <cygnusecks> ah.. so probably more than $50?
[23:54:26] <elektronkind> oh yeah
[23:54:30] <cygnusecks> ok :
[23:54:31] <cygnusecks> :)
[23:54:36] <trygvis> kjetilho: ldapclient is configured with a root-like user
[23:54:40] <sommerfeld> i've seen an instance of the new 2U chassis up close.  it looks like there are 8 more 2.5" disk slots just waiting for a backplane to go behind them...
[23:54:44] <cygnusecks> I was thinking of them being a cheaper, but almost as good alternative to the Bo$e
[23:55:30] <elektronkind> I'm a club DJ and have a project studio at home... so I've amassed a collection of headphones over the years.
[23:55:32] <cygnusecks> i'venever used the bose so they may very well suck, however my $50 JVCs do a reasonable job for the price
[23:55:36] <kjetilho> Bose?  they don't match up to Sennheiser at all
[23:55:41] <cygnusecks> heh
[23:55:47] * cygnusecks quietly backs away
[23:55:50] <sommerfeld> For noise reduction in a data center I found the el cheapo passive table saw hearing protector from home depot worked better than the Bose QC2.
[23:56:03] <cygnusecks> yeah I've heard the same
[23:57:22] <stevel> cygnusecks: hrm.  file a bug :) bugs.grommit.com under the SCM Migration product
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[23:57:43] <cygnusecks> k
[23:57:45] <trygvis> kjetilho: ldappasswd to the rescue :D
[23:57:56] <cygnusecks> minor issue
[23:58:24] <trygvis> actually, I'm not allowed to su to the user if it has a blank password
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[23:58:40] <trygvis> grr
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[23:58:41] <trygvis> oh well
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