September 29, 2007 
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September 29, 2007 [00:02:06] <WickedWicky> not sure if truss will automaticly assume external commands though or if it'll work for internal commands as well [00:02:17] *** gimonroy has left #opensolaris [00:02:31] <WickedWicky> anyway [00:02:33] <WickedWicky> $ time --help [00:02:34] <WickedWicky> time: illegal option -- help [00:02:34] <WickedWicky> usage: time [-p] utility [argument...] [00:02:50] <WickedWicky> so yeah.. either ksh93 uses the external time binary or it behaves like /usr/bin/time [00:02:55] *** CIA-26 has quit IRC [00:09:26] *** gisburn has joined #opensolaris [00:09:28] *** nostoi has quit IRC [00:09:33] <tomww> WickedWicky: maybe truss breaks the use of an internal "time" because truss does an "exec". [00:09:45] <WickedWicky> could be [00:09:46] <WickedWicky> however [00:09:56] <WickedWicky> time --help shows the exact output as /usr/bin/time --help does [00:10:05] <tomww> so, I'm too tired to try tha same with dtrace :-) [00:10:27] <WickedWicky> If I knew how dtrace worked I'd give it a go [00:10:30] <WickedWicky> then again [00:10:32] <WickedWicky> its midnight [00:10:33] <gisburn> sorry for being offline, provide screwed up [00:10:43] <tomww> if my system gets infected some time, I'll remember this time-thing and we'll see [00:10:47] <gisburn> erm, note that "times" is an alias [00:10:53] <gisburn> e.g. type $ alias [00:11:00] <gisburn> does that help somehow ? [00:11:14] <WickedWicky> yes and time? without s? [00:12:27] <gisburn> erm [00:12:32] <gisburn> $ whence -a time [00:12:56] <WickedWicky> whence, cool [00:13:05] <WickedWicky> so it's an alias for the external time then [00:13:46] <gisburn> WickedWicky: yes, since for an interactive shell the commands are tracked as aliases upon first use, e.g. some kind of "cache" [00:13:56] *** nostoi has joined #opensolaris [00:14:10] <WickedWicky> I see [00:15:37] *** nrubsig has quit IRC [00:15:38] <gisburn> erm [00:15:47] <gisburn> WickedWicky: what was the original problem ? [00:15:55] <WickedWicky> not a real problem [00:16:01] <WickedWicky> people saying how time didnt write to stderr [00:16:11] <WickedWicky> and they asked if "bug free (sarcasm I guess)" ksh93 did [00:16:19] <WickedWicky> so initialy it didnt, till I pointed out they should use -p [00:17:53] <WickedWicky> (after I did man time, honestly I didnt know there was a -p option till I manned) [00:22:44] *** CIA-26 has joined #opensolaris [00:23:11] <gisburn> comay: png! [00:23:13] <gisburn> er [00:23:16] <gisburn> comay: ping! [00:24:38] *** yarihm has joined #OpenSolaris [00:25:24] <SplasPood> argh wtf is Sol10U4 broken from the word go (presumably I'm doing something wrong, but I can't see what) [00:27:39] <elektronkind> broken how [00:27:46] *** ferret_0567_ has quit IRC [00:31:18] *** binarycrusader has joined #opensolaris [00:31:26] *** bengtf has quit IRC [00:37:48] *** Pietro_S has quit IRC [00:38:16] *** pfa3rh has quit IRC [00:38:39] <WickedWicky> ok, I made everybody happy at work for today [00:38:51] * WickedWicky is gonna call it the day and see how the club scene is this night [00:38:55] <WickedWicky> see you all later :) [00:40:45] *** postwait has quit IRC [00:43:35] *** karrotx has joined #opensolaris [00:44:35] *** dpn` has joined #opensolaris [00:47:45] *** Andy_Pease has joined #opensolaris [00:48:02] *** andy__ has quit IRC [00:49:51] *** GoodKarma has joined #OpenSolaris [00:50:48] *** dunc has joined #opensolaris [00:50:54] <gisburn> comay: ping! [00:52:34] *** Gman has joined #opensolaris [00:52:53] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris [00:52:58] <gisburn> Can anyone check comay's cube and kick his dead copr [00:53:00] <gisburn> se [00:53:09] <gisburn> corpse [00:54:06] <sommerfeld> gisburn: sun engineers generally have offices, not cubes. [00:54:17] <binarycrusader> Oh how I wish I had one still :| [00:54:18] <jbk> lucky :) [00:54:47] <binarycrusader> My current employer seems to think that programmers enjoy constant *noisy* fellowship in their work environments. [00:54:50] <binarycrusader> Cube-land it is. [00:55:07] <g4lt-sb100> sommerfeld, then go to his office and kick his dead corpse. jeez! some people! [00:55:15] <jbk> though even the half height cubes at work are considered a luxury.. most of my peers work in giant open-air rooms at a bunch of long tables with 4-5 people/table [00:55:38] <g4lt-sb100> give 'em an inch and they think they're a ruler [00:55:42] <LeftWing> binarycrusader: What, you mean they're not pack animals? [00:56:09] <gisburn> sommerfeld: yeah, but offices are less dramatic for such jokes [00:56:13] <bda> "dead corpse" makes me wonder if here are some living corpses wandering the halls of Sun. [00:56:19] <bda> Which reminds me of this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=MyQApuQG8SE [00:56:26] <binarycrusader> bda: perhaps, an undead corpse? [00:56:27] <binarycrusader> <g> [00:56:53] <g4lt-sb100> bda explain PI without zombie takeovers, I dare you [00:56:54] <jbk> bda: i think it's called 'sales' [00:57:03] <jbk> it would explain a lot at least :) [00:57:10] *** sommerfeld has quit IRC [00:57:30] <bda> "Zombies don't eat brains anyway, unless instructed to by their zombie masters. Lot of people get that wrong" [00:57:34] <bda> Anya++ [00:58:03] * oninoshiko shares an office with 3 other people... in theory.... but they telecommute most of the time anyway [00:59:07] <jbk> what i don't get, is in every location my employer is at, they put their IT people in the most expensive real estate areas of the city, then mgmt complains about the lack of space [00:59:25] *** Odin- has joined #opensolaris [01:00:33] <oninoshiko> lol [01:01:02] <jbk> of course, i think it's some corporate e-penis thing [01:01:20] <jbk> have to keep up with the joneses (or their competitors) [01:01:31] <bda> Heh, my only corporate job they did that. IT had these really nice offices. Then the middle managers got jealous and took over. [01:01:33] <oninoshiko> im kinda glad we arnt that stupid [01:01:43] <jbk> oh competitor is building a skyscraper in manhattan? we better do that too... [01:01:45] <bda> Relegated all the IT people to a crap cubefarm on the other side of the building. [01:02:07] <bda> I mean... in that situation, it's probably valid to go BOHF and just bitbucket any email sent about their little plan. [01:02:38] <jbk> or just afterwards, a script that 'accidentially' randomly turns off their network ports for a few minutes at a time during the day... [01:02:47] <jbk> 'hmm looks ok now...' [01:03:09] <g4lt-sb100> bda better yet, put all of the displaced offices on a special subnet with 1 BPS connectivity to the rest of the world [01:03:25] <bda> Naw, you want to stop that shit before it happens. :) [01:03:43] <bda> My current job has an open floor plan. It's pretty ok. [01:04:00] <oninoshiko> i think the true BOFH response is to write said script, leave to work for someone else, and get twice the income when they come beggeing for you to come back [01:04:32] *** BadKarma has quit IRC [01:04:32] *** GoodKarma is now known as BadKarma [01:04:45] <oninoshiko> lol [01:05:14] <jbk> heh.. i was just talking to a friend of mine [01:05:50] <jbk> and mentioned that at my last job, there apparently have been continued defections to other teams, and they've been having to hire more and more contractors to compensate [01:06:06] <jbk> which is likely going to kill their budget [01:06:17] <jbk> made me feel all warm and fuzzy :) [01:06:37] *** iceq has joined #opensolaris [01:07:05] <oninoshiko> gee someone feel almost as vendictive to former employers as i do... [01:07:33] <jbk> well it's more those that created a horrible environment are now starting to have to face the consequences [01:08:00] <jbk> when your manager guilts you about taking vacations [01:08:08] <jbk> forces you to work on your vacations [01:08:16] <oninoshiko> you think that give you fuzzies... you should feel the fuzzies from then going out of busness [01:08:21] <jbk> forces workloads so you never actually have time off [01:08:47] <jbk> i really can't feel sympathy when they now under the gun because the people are deserting the group so they can actually have a life outside of work [01:09:04] *** generoso has joined #opensolaris [01:09:10] <jbk> oh that won't happen at least any time soon -- too big for that [01:09:51] <bda> Life.. outside.. work? [01:10:08] <jbk> bda: i know, i myself was confused initially [01:10:11] *** generoso has left #opensolaris [01:10:27] <bda> I understand the words, individuall, but put into a sentence like that.. what? [01:10:46] <jbk> it's somewhat like trying to explain color to a blind man :) [01:11:41] <oninoshiko> getting a call from someone who has a system noone can work on anymore, because everyone left, and its broken... now that really can make your day [01:12:15] *** sommerfeld has joined #opensolaris [01:12:16] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o sommerfeld [01:12:17] <bda> I've had that call from several old jobs. "Did you read the documentation?" "What?" [01:12:53] <jbk> heh [01:12:56] <jbk> after i quit [01:12:58] <jbk> i was still getting paged [01:13:06] <jbk> and getting call from groups in the middle fo the night [01:13:19] <oninoshiko> mine was they wanted to know what the passwords on the boxes were -.- [01:14:33] <jbk> amusingly [01:15:02] <jbk> i wrote the system they use to manage user accounts & passwords across all the unix boxes [01:15:11] <jbk> and there isn't anyone there that could really maintain it [01:15:18] <jbk> so if they ever need to change it, they're screwed [01:15:33] <jbk> they have all the source code of course (I don't play those kind of games) [01:15:40] <dclarke> jbk : that is just not right [01:15:45] <moazamraja> anyone use 'pca' on OpenSolaris/nevada/sx:ce ? [01:16:00] <dclarke> imagine .. to write some IP code and then leave people high and dry [01:16:00] <jbk> the code isn't terribly complex [01:16:10] <dclarke> I guess they can always buy the IP from you right ? :-) [01:16:18] <jbk> nono, they have all the source code [01:16:21] <jbk> it was never withheld [01:16:22] <jbk> ever [01:16:26] <moazamraja> (pca = alternative to Sun Update Manager) [01:16:30] <jbk> they just don't have anyone that knows C [01:16:37] <dclarke> moazamraja: I know what it is .. I use it all the time [01:16:43] <dclarke> but not on SX [01:16:45] <jbk> so they aren't able to modify it [01:16:52] <moazamraja> dclarke: awesome...which would u rather use, SUn Update Manager or pca? [01:17:05] <g4lt-sb100> moazamraja, uhm why would you use a patchint tool on something without patches? [01:17:08] <oninoshiko> thats similer to the call i got... noone else knew anything about *NIX [01:17:09] *** yippi has joined #opensolaris [01:17:12] <jbk> i would never do crap like that, even if i was somehow legally justified [01:17:26] <moazamraja> g4lt-sb100: it can be used to patch other programs, like Sun Compilers, etc. [01:17:27] <tek-ops> quick survey [01:17:38] <tek-ops> what's you favorite package site for opensolaris [01:17:39] <dclarke> jbk : business is business .. don't take it personally [01:18:02] <dclarke> jbk : I have learned the hard way that most companies will grind you into dust without ever shedding a tear [01:18:18] <jbk> i'm not, i just have to smile though when their comeuppance comes, even if in a minor way [01:18:31] <jbk> well i finally said enough [01:18:45] <dclarke> jbk : nah .. you are just gettin started ! [01:18:54] <dclarke> tek-ops: Blastwave.org :-) [01:19:05] <jbk> naah, this place is a lot better in that respect... [01:19:18] <jbk> in some ways comically so [01:19:25] <oninoshiko> tek-ops: blastwave [01:19:26] <dclarke> what place ? [01:19:36] <jbk> their idea of 'stressful' can't even compare to the typical crap i was dealing with [01:19:40] <jbk> investment bank [01:19:47] <dclarke> jbk : oh .. cool [01:19:56] * oninoshiko is happy where oninoshiko is [01:19:57] *** vmlemon has quit IRC [01:19:59] <dclarke> jbk : want to hear about stress? let's compare notes sometime [01:20:02] <dclarke> not today [01:20:15] <dclarke> hey Jason .. done anything with Mercury lately ? [01:20:16] <jbk> i'm not going to claim my old employer was the worst [01:20:23] <jbk> only comparing the differences :) [01:20:42] *** slowhog has joined #opensolaris [01:20:43] <jbk> dclarke: a little bit, but i think i'm pretty close to done [01:20:48] <jbk> right now the code is out for review [01:20:57] <dclarke> cool ! [01:21:03] <dclarke> I just ask .. cause .. [01:21:06] *** slowhog has quit IRC [01:21:12] <dclarke> I wanted to upgrade that box to snv_70b [01:21:22] <jbk> http://cr.opensolaris.org/~jmcp/libdisasm_sparc/ if you want to see :) [01:21:30] <jbk> (jmcp is sponsoring it for me) [01:22:01] <jbk> lemme grab 1-2 things off of there (give me a few mins), then feel free.. [01:22:13] <dclarke> Prepared by: James McPherson (jmcp) ? [01:22:19] <dclarke> okay .. right .. I get it [01:22:27] <jbk> yeah [01:22:35] <dclarke> jbk : no no .. I do a full level zer odump [01:22:41] <dclarke> you done have to waste time [01:22:46] <jbk> oh ok.. [01:22:51] <dclarke> I'll have the ufsdumps avail afterwards [01:22:52] <jbk> then feel free to do it whenever [01:23:01] <dclarke> thank you ! [01:23:14] * dclarke wants to kick the tires on snv_70b [01:23:21] <dclarke> oooh .. I need to install mroe RAM also [01:23:32] <jbk> unless something major comes up during the review process, i'm probably done with it [01:23:33] <dclarke> but .. I wanted to try a really small core install forst [01:23:44] <dclarke> jbk : well .. glad I could help [01:23:45] <jbk> just obviously won't know till everyone's done looking at it.. [01:24:00] <jbk> and thanks for helping.. [01:24:07] <oninoshiko> any idea when we are getting an installer that will install ZFS? [01:24:13] <dclarke> damn links on that page don't work [01:24:16] <dclarke> http://sac.eng.sun.compsarc/2007/507 [01:24:23] <jbk> heh [01:24:39] <jbk> i can probably find the link to the case.. [01:24:41] <jbk> should be public [01:24:52] <dclarke> okay .. [01:24:59] <dclarke> I'll have time on Monday to look at ti [01:25:02] *** delewis has quit IRC [01:25:10] <dclarke> this weekend I am busy building a pkg depot for Indiana [01:25:24] <dclarke> should be up by .. mid next week in alpha state [01:25:30] <jbk> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/caselog/2007/507/ [01:25:47] <jbk> speaking of packages, i need to check out the package prototype [01:26:08] <dclarke> its being hotly reviewed and tweaked atm [01:26:17] <dclarke> I'd give it a few days for the dust to settle [01:26:20] <jbk> and debated as well from what i've seen :) [01:26:26] <dclarke> yeah .. well [01:26:31] <dclarke> ya gotta expect that [01:26:32] <jbk> though i think a few people are reading things that aren't there.. [01:26:40] <dclarke> after all .. some guys decided to re-inven the wheel [01:26:53] <dclarke> it was a wheel that needed service anyways [01:28:05] <jbk> yeah, but they even say when everything is said and done with it, it would be a candidate for a new packaging system -- some have taken that to mean that the decision has already been made to ditch the SVR4 packing, ignore all other package systems, and use this [01:28:37] <Gman> yay, we have a webapp and source! [01:29:03] <jbk> though perhaps my definition of candidate is different from other people's :) [01:29:04] <dclarke> what webapp ? [01:29:12] <sommerfeld> i'm skeptical of the apparent decision to abandon the svr4 package format. [01:29:20] <dclarke> its not abandonment [01:29:23] *** tsoome has left #opensolaris [01:29:26] <sommerfeld> i'm not skeptical of the apparent decision to abandon the existing pkg codebase [01:29:29] <dclarke> SVR4 is sort of package management rev 1 [01:29:31] *** NikolaVeber has quit IRC [01:29:32] <dclarke> rpm is rev 2 [01:29:40] <dclarke> this thing .. is rev 4 [01:29:43] <tek-ops> hah, dclarke, how's it going [01:29:44] <tek-ops> :) [01:29:47] <dclarke> sorry .. I never say a 3 [01:29:57] <dclarke> sorry .. I never saw a 3 [01:30:05] <tek-ops> how's it going [01:30:05] <dclarke> tek-ops: going well I guess [01:30:14] <tek-ops> good to hear it [01:30:20] <dclarke> I'm trying to get a few things runnign here [01:30:27] *** bengtf has quit IRC [01:30:32] <jbk> well at this point, it should (imo) just serve as a 'playground' to make sure the issues are understood [01:30:37] <dclarke> doing ipfilter with a zone can be frustrating at the moment [01:30:45] <tek-ops> ahhh [01:30:50] <oninoshiko> i was skeptical of abandoning SysV boot scripts... but i now wonder why [01:30:54] <dclarke> jbk : I think it needs to be looked at and played with [01:31:01] <bda> grr, ipf. [01:31:03] <jbk> nothing i've seen from those doing it would seem to contradict that [01:31:06] <dclarke> I'm willing to experiment [01:31:19] * dclarke snarls ipf [01:31:25] <tek-ops> dclarke, virtualizing web servers? [01:31:32] <dclarke> pardon me .. I need to track down an ipfilter config [01:31:36] *** nachox has quit IRC [01:31:40] <dclarke> tek-ops : yes .. just a few [01:31:45] <tek-ops> very cool [01:31:46] <bda> My monitor box consistantly stops building new state entries. It's super. Gotta restart ipf hourly. [01:31:47] *** nachox has joined #opensolaris [01:31:53] <bda> To be fair, I have not looked into tweaking it. But. [01:31:54] <bda> wtf [01:32:01] <dclarke> bda : that is world class wrong dude [01:32:18] <jbk> in the end, it might just end up 'well really we just need to add X or change Y' to the sysv packages [01:32:21] <dclarke> bda : it could be worse .. the problems that Darren Reed is hitting with the new S10u4 are not trivial [01:32:24] <tek-ops> I've been trying to get something similar set up as well, well convince up the chain of the benefits [01:32:26] * bda loves getting alerts like "cannot ping ANYTHING!" randomly because the host fw is dumb. [01:32:37] <hallu_> ipf is a PoS application [01:32:38] *** nachox has quit IRC [01:33:12] <bda> Or, on the DNS caches, which stop accepting :53 connex, so nothing can do lookups... [01:33:13] <dclarke> tek-ops : its dead easy to justify .. get a single T2000 and zone the hell out of it [01:33:15] <bda> blah. [01:33:32] <dclarke> tek-ops : storage is a bugger however .. you need fibre externally [01:33:46] <jbk> or there might end up being a fundamental flaw that's discovered with the existing format -- either way, I suspect it'll be a lot easier to explore all those issues with the prototype code than the existing codebase [01:34:07] <dclarke> jbk : well .. I am willing to experiment with it [01:34:13] *** yippi has quit IRC [01:34:14] <tek-ops> I want to get a pair of t1000 or t2000 for virtualizing multiple servers [01:34:17] * dclarke goes back to work [01:34:34] <tek-ops> good luck [01:34:42] <jbk> that's my take on it at least... i haven't seen anything that says that this code (or new format) is preordained for *solaris going forward [01:34:54] *** comay has quit IRC [01:35:12] <gisburn> groan [01:36:54] <dclarke> jbk : well I had a nice chat with Ian Murdock a few times and the vision I hear "i that we need to close the door on the gap between Solaris and Linux" package management [01:37:11] *** delewis has joined #opensolaris [01:37:14] <dclarke> it is a very good idea .. imo [01:37:20] <jbk> yes [01:37:38] <dclarke> I mixed my metaphors there [01:37:41] <oninoshiko> probibly true, from a SUN perspective. frankly if it doesnt solve some problem i have i dont care so much [01:37:42] <dclarke> close the gap [01:37:53] <jbk> again though that doesn't mean a solution has already been decided as much as i think just that a solution to the gap needs to happen [01:37:54] <dclarke> shut the door [01:38:13] <dclarke> well .. Stephen Hahn has a damn good grasp on the concepts I think [01:38:22] <dclarke> and he has hammered out a concept with code [01:38:27] <oninoshiko> and in other news, yes the world does revolove around me :p [01:38:34] <dclarke> without code you have no idea .. thats a good way to measure things [01:38:38] <binarycrusader> I think the main problem folks have is that they would have liked to see some open discussion on strategy and philosophy before a team of people went off furiously coding something [01:39:02] <dclarke> binarycrusader: wellll ... let's suppose that I decide to code something [01:39:03] <binarycrusader> i.e. what the goals and philosophy were behind a new package management system and why everything existing fell short [01:39:20] <dclarke> binarycrusader: I don't have to ask anyone .. I just do it [01:39:29] <dclarke> in fact .. I started to [01:39:33] <jbk> binarycrusader: well a question (and I really don't know the answer) -- do you wait till you have something worth showing or try to get 50 people together and start from scratch? [01:39:50] <jbk> like dtrace [01:39:55] <binarycrusader> jbk: that depends on whether you want the people you'll talk to feel involved or not, or just dump something on them [01:40:01] <binarycrusader> jbk: one hopefully doesn't begin coding without a set of goals in mind [01:40:03] <dclarke> I am writing a tool that probes the blastwave mirrors for response time and then allows the user to drag down packages from multiple in a multi-threaded kind of way [01:40:11] <binarycrusader> jbk: discussion doesn't preclude starting coding [01:40:21] <e^ipi> in some senses, forcing people to architect things before they code them makes for more robust code [01:40:32] <dclarke> but the lock on the file /var/sadm/install/contents forces serialized and order installed via pkgadd [01:40:51] <binarycrusader> yep [01:41:00] <e^ipi> so showing up with a "look what I did" is much less valuable than showing up with "here's something I want to do, RFC" [01:41:05] *** nostoi has quit IRC [01:41:08] <dclarke> I have a white board that I draft everything up on .. before I write line 1 [01:41:19] <e^ipi> not the same thing [01:41:41] <oninoshiko> except that when writing the RFC you may not fully understand the implications of what your are writing [01:41:53] <binarycrusader> jbk: i can't say that I have the right answer either, but I do know that doing without inviting discussion before you do so makes people feel left out [01:42:13] <e^ipi> which is why you ask for comments; you may not understand the implications, others might [01:42:32] <jbk> well i do think it would have been better if the discussion happened on the lists instead of only w/ blog entries + comments on there.. [01:42:33] <oninoshiko> thats true [01:42:56] <binarycrusader> There's nothing wrong with wanting to present a cool concept only once it has been sufficiently formed, but it all depends on whether you want to do that as part of a community, or by yourself. [01:43:17] <oninoshiko> binarycrusader: to me it has nothing to do with feeling fuzzy. its about getting a problem solved [01:43:35] <oninoshiko> speaking of problems solved, im going home [01:43:38] <binarycrusader> oninoshiko: "fuzzy" has nothing to do with it. [01:43:40] <oninoshiko> TTFN [01:43:43] <binarycrusader> oninoshiko: Later. [01:43:51] *** furrycat has joined #opensolaris [01:43:52] *** oninoshiko has quit IRC [01:43:59] <furrycat> does solaris 10 support usb printers? [01:44:14] <e^ipi> some of them, yeah [01:44:39] <furrycat> what would be the printer port for usb? [01:45:00] * dclarke is confused by zones sometimes http://rafb.net/p/PPOrdN77.html [01:45:34] <e^ipi> furrycat: /dev/printers/0 [01:45:49] <jbk> dclarke: ? [01:45:52] <furrycat> i have a usb mouse.. will that affect anything? [01:45:55] <sommerfeld> usbprn(7D) is the driver [01:46:05] <e^ipi> furrycat: umm.. no... why would it? [01:46:24] <furrycat> i don't know, it may try to print to my mouse, perhaps? [01:46:40] <sommerfeld> unless your mouse identifies itself to the host as a printer, there's no chance of that. [01:47:13] *** Gekz[sleep] is now known as Gekz [01:47:16] <sommerfeld> usb devices tell the host what they are, and the host usb stack picks a driver based on that. [01:48:58] <moazamraja> ack.... [01:48:59] <furrycat> ok, i selected a generic looking HP Deskjet and set the port to /dev/printers/0 [01:49:04] <moazamraja> where does /usr/sfw stuff come from? [01:49:09] <moazamraja> companion CD? [01:50:04] <binarycrusader> no [01:50:11] <binarycrusader> not necessarily anyway [01:50:40] <binarycrusader> I'm fairly certain /opt/sfw is for the companion CD, and /usr/sfw is for things that come with Solaris itself. [01:50:48] <binarycrusader> If I remember right... [01:51:14] *** sahafeez has quit IRC [01:51:15] <e^ipi> furrycat: if you can get the printer description files from linuxprinting.org, you don't need to monkey around with generic looking printers [01:51:30] <sommerfeld> /usr/sfw (and also stuff in /usr/bin and lots of other places) comes from the "SFW" consolidation. [01:51:42] <sommerfeld> the companion CD doesn't come from the "SFW" consolidation [01:53:07] <moazamraja> sommerfeld: remind me, where do I get the sfw packages? [01:53:23] <furrycat> http://openprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=HP-DeskJet_3940 [01:53:30] <furrycat> now what do I do? [01:53:51] <sommerfeld> the /usr/sfw stuff is on the solaris install media [01:55:15] <dclarke> I'm back [01:55:26] <dclarke> jbk .. you called ? [01:55:27] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris [01:55:29] <furrycat> should I use CUPS for printing in solaris? [01:55:50] <dclarke> furrycat: please do [01:56:14] <furrycat> why should I? [01:56:28] <dclarke> because you want to print ? [01:56:36] <furrycat> i won't be able to otherwise? [01:56:38] <jbk> just wondering what you were confused about [01:57:10] <dclarke> jbk : that report shows no zfs datasets and no ufs filesystems [01:58:08] <dclarke> so .. that can confuse a script looking for avail disk space [01:59:48] <dclarke> erk [01:59:56] * dclarke sees NOTICE: /a: bad dir ino 2 at offset 0: mangled entry [02:00:53] <sommerfeld> oops [02:01:23] * dclarke searches desk for tech support [02:01:30] * dclarke finds scotch [02:01:59] <dclarke> ah well ... oops indeed [02:04:00] <tomww> dclarke: hi [02:04:01] *** Odin- has quit IRC [02:04:09] * dclarke waves [02:04:26] <sommerfeld> always print out od -x of your root inode and directory and keep it in your desk drawer. [02:05:04] <dclarke> sommerfeld : its mirrored [02:05:31] <dclarke> sommerfeld : everything [ roll of the head here ] I have is redundant to some degree [02:05:43] <tomww> dclarke: blastwave delivers with packages only one standard set of configuration-files, right? [02:05:44] <alanc> the problem with mirrors is they make two copies of all your mistakes [02:06:04] <dclarke> very neatly too .. you gottta love it [02:06:14] <dclarke> tomww : eh ? [02:06:21] <sommerfeld> that's why i do belt & suspenders: two valid live upgrade BE's, each of which is mirrored. [02:06:25] <dclarke> tomww : generally yes [02:06:56] <dclarke> tomww : in the case of Apache you get a .conf file .. but it is not by default overwriting your production copy [02:07:21] <sommerfeld> (but i'm told that the "hex/octal dump of root in your desk drawer" actually once saved a multics installation from losing its filesystem.) [02:07:22] <alanc> I just use non-mirrored BE's so I can rollback, but one of these days I'll finally get converted to zfs so I can use snapshots to recover from my mistakes [02:07:30] *** tokyoeye has quit IRC [02:07:35] <tomww> dclarke: the reason is, how could one glue together a configuration-framework for e.g. a whole stack of packages, e.g. webserver, scripiting-plaugin, database, web-apllication --- all covered from special configuration-recipe [02:08:03] <tomww> ?plugin [02:08:18] <dclarke> tomww : damn good question and .. once I get my head up away form *this* problem I'll be happy to chat about that [02:09:02] <tomww> dclarke: yes, don't want you to tkae away from that. :-) [02:09:51] <tomww> i'll come back onto that in the next days. It's 2am fro me, good night all... [02:10:05] <dclarke> good night Mr. JET [02:10:07] <dclarke> :-) [02:10:16] <tomww> thanks, Mr. Jet-lover :-) [02:10:52] * dclarke thinks JET rocks in so many ways .. its just silly to enumerate that set [02:10:58] *** tek-ops has quit IRC [02:11:21] <tomww> :-) *sleep* [02:11:27] *** tek-ops has joined #opensolaris [02:11:33] <dclarke> oh .. golly .. I think I have a dead disk [02:14:22] <dclarke> http://rafb.net/p/el28Dz45.html Total uncorrected write errors = 2644 [02:15:21] *** apersson has left #opensolaris [02:16:03] <dclarke> worse .. actually http://rafb.net/p/ya5aEV65.nln.html [02:16:26] <dclarke> pardon me while I go look on eBay for a disk [02:24:23] <sommerfeld> i see your problem! never let the swedish chef cook with your drives! [02:25:11] <Stric> but I can cook it if you want [02:27:03] *** jyeary has joined #opensolaris [02:28:55] *** charlesnw has left #opensolaris [02:36:19] <furrycat> sweet CUPS is so cool. Nice GUI that just found my USB printer. [02:36:30] <furrycat> that is awesome [02:37:16] <furrycat> this should be the default printing software in solaris [02:37:23] <furrycat> lpmanager sucks [02:38:12] <Triskelios> furrycat: Solaris already has a printing manager included in newer JDS, see http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/presto/ [02:38:24] <Triskelios> plug-and-play and IPP browsing work [02:38:29] <furrycat> is it in U4? [02:40:13] *** alanc is now known as alanc-away [02:40:14] <furrycat> Triskelios: that's an awesome movie [02:40:25] <furrycat> that desktop looks sweet [02:40:31] <furrycat> what version of solaris is that btw? [02:40:46] <furrycat> solaris 10 U4 is quite ugly compared to that! [02:43:16] <Triskelios> furrycat: that's SX, donno when/if S10 will ever get that. I wouldn't use S10 on a desktop anyway [02:43:32] <furrycat> why not? [02:43:35] *** Triskelios has quit IRC [02:43:47] <furrycat> i'm using solaris 10 u4 [02:44:00] <furrycat> maybe i should switch [02:44:27] <furrycat> how much better is it than solaris 10 u4? [02:50:31] *** postwait has joined #opensolaris [02:50:49] *** libkeise1 has joined #opensolaris [02:51:14] <tek-ops> i [02:58:08] *** furrycat has quit IRC [03:07:26] <dclarke> anyone know their way around ipfilter on Solaris 10 ? http://rafb.net/p/Z8HHWj62.html [03:07:49] <dclarke> this machine seems to think that ipfilter is not working when in fact .. it is [03:07:56] <dclarke> but this is not really trustable [03:08:01] *** libkeiser has quit IRC [03:08:11] *** mw46 has quit IRC [03:09:50] <jamesd> dclarke, did you use the autopush command? [03:10:11] <dclarke> autopush ? no [03:10:21] <dclarke> /usr/sbin/ipf -Fa -f /etc/ipf/ipf.conf [03:10:24] <jamesd> http://learningsolaris.com/archives/2005/05/19/ipfilter-on-solaris-10-primer/ [03:11:06] <dclarke> nice link James [03:11:09] <dclarke> :-) [03:11:12] <dclarke> thanks [03:11:20] <dclarke> I have fought with .. and won .. many times [03:11:27] <dclarke> but tonight .. it seems fuzzy to me [03:12:21] * jamesd is glad i dont have to deal with firewalls at work... those guys are too anal retentive for me... and at home i have a wireless/switch/router/firewall... [03:14:07] *** yongsun has joined #opensolaris [03:15:10] <dclarke> I'm stuck with dealing with it [03:15:14] <dclarke> oh hey .. guess what [03:15:27] <dclarke> There was this really sweet 6 month contract in downtown Toronto [03:15:29] <jamesd> but i guess, they only have one job to do and they have 40 hours a week plus to mess with firewall rules [03:15:32] <jamesd> cool [03:15:33] <dclarke> the numbers on it looked good [03:15:40] <dclarke> I go in [03:15:47] <dclarke> and guess what they tell me ? [03:15:56] <jamesd> your hired? [03:16:05] <dclarke> We are sorry .. but you are just wya too senior [03:16:12] <dclarke> too senior ? [03:16:21] <jamesd> for a six month contract? [03:16:22] <dclarke> as in "we think you will get bored and walk out on us" [03:16:27] <dclarke> yeah .. morons [03:16:35] <hile_> so dumb-down your CV for the next one? :) [03:16:36] <dclarke> I felt like giving them a lecture on business rules [03:16:47] <dclarke> I dumbed this one down a pile for this contract [03:16:52] <dclarke> then I walked in [03:17:03] <dclarke> they asked me questions about Solaris admin [03:17:16] <dclarke> and at some point they asked how long I had been working wiht Solaris [03:17:28] <g4lt-sb100> dclarke, well, TBH, when they think that, it's because they know they're on the wrong side of the payscale [03:17:29] <dclarke> I was happy to answer "for as long as there has been Solaris" [03:17:36] <jamesd> well i will put your name in next time where i'm at needs people.. we currently have a guy that has wrote solaris device drivers for a optical disk library being a sysadmin... i'm sure you can get in... just need to move here while the contract lasts. [03:17:56] <dclarke> sorry .. can move [03:17:59] <dclarke> sorry .. can't move [03:18:04] <dclarke> I have kids ya know ? [03:18:08] <dclarke> they have a life too [03:18:24] <dclarke> but what frosts my butt is this "too senior" crap from HR people [03:18:39] <jamesd> its just for 6 months ... they pay good.. and the place i work has offices in canada that you can work on transfering too. [03:18:41] <dclarke> also .. the US Dollar is just not what it once was .. ya know [03:18:48] <kjetilho> if you sign a contract, you could hardly walk out on them? [03:19:12] <dclarke> the people in the room were too insecure and with no business experience at all [03:19:13] <kjetilho> contracts actually mean something in the US too, right? [03:19:16] <dclarke> they had .. no clue [03:19:20] <jamesd> kjetilho, contract employees can leave any time.. they are contracting to pay you at a rate for a maximum length of time. [03:19:21] <g4lt-sb100> kjetilho, they break contracts all the time, they expect it from you [03:19:28] <kjetilho> sheesh. [03:20:26] <dclarke> this IP Filter crud is really bugging me [03:20:56] <dclarke> I'm going to run a port scanner on it and if it works .. it works [03:24:09] <hallu_> is there any project working on porting OpenBSD's pf to OpenSolaris? [03:24:18] <hallu_> I mean, ipf doesn't scale [03:24:56] <hallu_> it's supposed to have linear time requirements for state lookups, but the study that Daniel Hartmeier did showed that it's not O(1) [03:25:02] <jamesd> hallu_, people hat need to scale past ipf, buy hardware firewalls... [03:25:24] <jamesd> at least when prod solaris boxes are concerned. [03:25:53] <hallu_> jamesd: you mean something like Cisco PIX? [03:26:02] *** yarihm has quit IRC [03:26:05] <jamesd> among others... [03:26:19] <bda> meh. [03:26:32] <bda> Someone was busting my balls about that the other day, and I asked to see the memo which said defense-in-depth was dead... [03:27:41] <dclarke> I believe in limited access at every stge [03:27:43] <jamesd> i don't think my company would trust a solaris sysadmin to care and feeding of a firewall duties. [03:27:50] <dclarke> access to what is needed .. nothing more [03:28:27] <kjetilho> hallu_: linear means O(n). O(1) is constant. [03:28:32] <hallu_> I mean, it was back in the day of OpenBSD 2.7 or something like that, when I would run ipf on openbsd, and when my gf wanted to play games, she ofcourse used some application named "All-seeing Eye", which opened UDP connections to a *lot* of servers, and I was filtering with state, so the OpenBSD box just grind to a complete halt [03:28:37] <bda> jamesd: I am used to having border and host firewalls, usually built from the same spec sheets. [03:28:50] <hallu_> kjetilho: yeah, sorry, you're right [03:29:00] <jamesd> i connect to corprate intranet using vpn, and rova... fresh passwd every minute, and i still go through 9 routers/firewalls to get to my main login box. [03:29:18] <hallu_> anyways, the ipf state table is a hash table, so lookup should be O(1) [03:29:37] <hallu_> can't I get for example FW-1 to OpenSolaris? [03:30:01] <hallu_> or Gauntlet, or what other commercial firewalls there are out there? [03:30:31] <hallu_> I mean, if ipf is considered experimental, and pf or ipfw is not going to be ported to solaris so ... [03:30:38] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris [03:31:08] <hallu_> or am I forced to run an OpenBSD firewall to get a decent packet filtering solution [03:31:09] <jamesd> ipf is released in solaris 10.. its not experimental.. its ready for prime time. [03:31:20] <libkeise1> um. hash tables are not O(1). you can make probabilitic arguments, but they are still linear order structures [03:32:00] <hallu_> libkeise1: if you calculate the hash for a value, and then look it up in the table, isn't that O(1) ? [03:32:01] *** simford has joined #opensolaris [03:32:24] <jbk> that assumes no collisions i believe [03:32:27] <libkeise1> yeah. if there are no collisions. as i said, you can make probabilistic arguments. but in the general case [03:32:39] <hallu_> I see [03:33:08] <jbk> if there's a repeatable issue, you can always file a bug [03:33:11] <hallu_> so, I read on the net that PIX version >7.0 is the one to go with [03:33:18] <hallu_> because it has nice features [03:33:31] <jamesd> hallu_, most modern hardware can do firewalling for multiple gigabits of data.. how big is your pipe? [03:33:53] <hallu_> only 10Mbps [03:34:35] <hallu_> jamesd: but for example, is there FW-1 available for Solaris? [03:34:49] <jamesd> modern hardware can do that in its sleep... are you just trying to troll ... you can't even have enough firewall rules to be an issue for ipf... with that little bandwidth. [03:35:00] <jamesd> fw-1? [03:35:20] <hallu_> checkpoints software [03:35:31] <bda> jamesd: uhm. [03:35:38] <jamesd> tripwire? hids? [03:35:39] <bda> jamesd: Did you miss my comments earlier re: new state? [03:35:58] <bda> Whatever. Time to find food. [03:35:59] * bda & [03:36:24] <jamesd> bda, no... i didn't miss them.. just pointing out that his argument is pretty trollish even if what he said was true. [03:36:47] <hallu_> sorry, I didn't mean to troll [03:37:04] <hallu_> I'm just intrested in using OpenSolaris as a firewall :) [03:37:39] <dclarke> in that case you need to go check out the ipfilter site [03:37:40] <jamesd> you know it needs 256MB of ram... [03:37:50] <dclarke> what does ? [03:37:57] <jamesd> if you want it only for a firewall... bsd might be better.. [03:37:59] <dclarke> Solaris ? [03:38:06] <dclarke> think 1GB minimum [03:38:17] <dclarke> if you want to do anything with it [03:38:18] <jamesd> dclarke, x86 does... sparc doesn't but i dont recomend less than 256 for a newbie. [03:38:27] <hallu_> yeah, OpenBSD is pretty cool for firewalling applications [03:38:38] <dclarke> minimal 512MB [03:38:43] <dclarke> I stand by that [03:38:50] <dclarke> and that is $5 on eBay anyways [03:39:14] <hallu_> why 256MB? I think a few thousand states will fit perfectly well into 128MB or even 64MB of memory [03:39:27] <jamesd> dclarke, as you your self has shown.. you can boot sol10 sparc with 64MB of less.. and if all he is doing is firewall... then 256 is enough [03:39:48] <dclarke> if he strips it down .. yes [03:40:01] <dclarke> just run two interfaces and ipfilter and NAT and yep .. you are okay [03:40:06] <dclarke> but nothing else [03:40:07] <jamesd> hallu_, because the way that grub plus x86 installer works you need 256... [03:40:17] <hallu_> I see [03:40:33] <hallu_> haven't actually tried OpenSolaris on a computer with less than 2GB of memory :) [03:40:43] <dclarke> I have [03:40:48] <jamesd> if you want to use ZFS, you need 1GB minimum... and 2 is better.... [03:40:49] <dclarke> oooh boy .. have I ever [03:40:50] <hallu_> but it's such an elegant operating system, that I can't help but to like it [03:41:19] <hallu_> unlike in Linux/BSD things just seem to work out of the box without any issues :) [03:41:23] <jamesd> is this a good result for crubible.. test 1 [03:41:26] <jamesd> RT = 83.200479 sec [03:41:26] <jamesd> 17576 files avg = 0.004731 sec total = 83.144671 sec io avg = 13.211911 MB/sec [03:41:37] <dclarke> yea [03:41:42] <dclarke> very good for older hardware [03:41:48] <jamesd> on a u2 .. i have a few spindles attached... [03:41:58] <dclarke> new stuff should be at about 45MB to 60MB / sec [03:42:14] <dclarke> oh .. that is _excellent_ [03:42:16] <jamesd> like 15.. [03:42:23] <dclarke> woo hoo [03:42:26] <hallu_> jamesd: do you have any recommendation to make for a Cisco PIX for a /24 that is connected through either a 10Mbps or 20Mbps system? [03:42:30] <dclarke> holy noise and heat BatMan [03:42:43] <hallu_> do the low end models work well enough for that? [03:42:44] <jamesd> pool used avail read write read write [03:42:44] <jamesd> newpool 11.8G 148G 6 7 229K 80.1K [03:42:58] <jamesd> its in another room... and its wisconsin.. winter is comming :-) [03:43:36] <jamesd> hallu_, i don't do commercial firewalls.. but i do work for a company that has multiple teams of people that do :-) [03:44:22] <hallu_> ok :) [03:44:32] <hallu_> they use PIX, I assume? [03:45:01] <jamesd> no clue... [03:45:27] <hallu_> I mean, BSD pf is nice, but a niche market, Linux iptables is a horrible piece of software to configure right ... [03:45:32] <jamesd> i haven't had time to look in the datacenter... its get in fix the problem get out.. before security become anal... [03:45:56] <hallu_> :) [03:46:00] <jbk> i always found iptables needlessly convoluted [03:46:03] *** Syndelor has joined #opensolaris [03:46:15] <jamesd> hallu_, iptables work nicely for small stuff... look for an app called shorewall.. its nice for small stuff... if you are using linux... [03:46:26] <jamesd> ipf has lots of documents on how to set it up on the web... [03:46:39] <hallu_> yeah, I have tried shorewall, and failed miserably at it :D [03:46:42] <Syndelor> Anyone in here work with Zones that much I am thinking of setting a few up to do an eDirectory and IDM install as well as one for DNS to do design work but was not sure of a few things on settign up big zones as compared to small ones [03:47:00] <hallu_> jamesd: yes, I'm very familiar with the open source firewalls, like ipf [03:47:07] <jamesd> i loved shorewall.. back when i was using linux firewalls [03:47:09] <hallu_> used it for many years [03:47:17] <Syndelor> Shorewall was the shit [03:47:31] <hallu_> jamesd: I guess I'm too stupid to configure it right or something [03:47:57] <jamesd> hallu_, it had a learning curve, but once it was up... it was easy to do special stuff.. [03:48:10] <hallu_> I see [03:48:32] <jamesd> Syndelor, if you dont need to limit zones from stepping on each other... you basicly choose sparse vs. whole root zones, and it just works [03:48:49] <hallu_> do you have any opinion on the security of the network stacks between Linux, BSD or OpenSolaris? [03:49:02] <hallu_> I recall OpenBSD having some serious problems with IPv6 very recently [03:49:03] <Syndelor> Well I want them limited as I am sure eDirectory the hog that it is will try to take over to much [03:49:47] <jamesd> linux sucks... bsd and opensolaris are pretty close.. with the edge going to opensolaris if you turn on anal retentive features like trusted extensions and c2 security auditing... bsd can't touch those features. [03:49:53] <Syndelor> I have set up the globals and am ready to split them out just wanted to see if there where any caviats I am thinking of just using special directoryies [03:50:13] <hallu_> jamesd: not even with TrustedBSD? [03:50:26] <Syndelor> NOPE not even with [03:50:40] <hallu_> OpenBSD has no real MAC or rbac and whatever [03:50:42] <jamesd> http://www.brendangregg.com/zones.html [03:50:47] <Syndelor> The Solaris security is bar none the highest of any system outside of some of the LARGE Frames [03:51:08] <jamesd> Syndelor, more info that you probably need about zone config stuff.. but is a bit dated. [03:51:24] <hallu_> Syndelor: yeah, I've established that much [03:51:35] <Syndelor> I have been using the BogAdmin docs they seem pretty good or are they not ? [03:51:39] <jamesd> bbl later.... [03:51:44] <jamesd> off to the bar [03:51:50] <hallu_> Syndelor: I would even feel comfortable letting unknown people in on a properly configured Solaris box [03:51:59] <hallu_> same thing with OpenVMS [03:52:05] <RElling> LARGE Frames, heh, secrity by obscurity once the retirees die off :-) [03:52:15] <Syndelor> I do all the time i have a solaris box I let friends and others use [03:52:18] <hallu_> sadly it doesn't run on x86 or amd64 [03:52:25] <Syndelor> lol RElling [03:53:00] <Syndelor> I run TopSecret account mgmt on AIX with its auditing and role based policies it is AWSOMME [03:53:00] <hallu_> and you have basically contained every user inside their own homedirectory without the possibility of doing something fishy with your server? [03:53:15] <jbk> heh [03:53:21] *** postwait has quit IRC [03:53:23] <hallu_> Syndelor: is TopSecret a commercial software? [03:53:50] <jbk> i have found that whenever i had to interact with OS/390 (or whatever it's called today) it did make me want to kill myself [03:53:51] <Syndelor> Yeah it is a Bank specific frame software to get the mainframe market over to unix [03:54:01] <Syndelor> lol [03:54:12] <Syndelor> OS/390 is ROCK solid though [03:54:20] <jbk> oh i don't dispute it works well [03:54:33] <Syndelor> It works to well sometimes [03:54:33] <jbk> just never want to interface it with anything but another mainframe [03:54:43] <jbk> unless you like pain [03:54:51] <gisburn> Anyone having a M4000 around ? [03:55:04] <hallu_> btw., I remember a discussion I had with a friend, and he mentioned that Solaris has some real-timeish features to it [03:55:09] <jbk> you wouldn't believe the hoops i had to go through because it was too expensive to license any sort of compression program for a mainframe [03:55:19] <Syndelor> No need hallu_ I am using sudo and tripwire so they can pla around it is a flashable server so if they screw anything up it is undoable just a small zone that has no access [03:55:24] <hallu_> like they use it at the mil.fi to control anti air missiles and stuff [03:55:44] <axisys> anyone here uses jboss on sol 10 x86? sorry but off topic .. but i tried to get help from jboss community for two weeks and got zero reply [03:55:47] <Syndelor> jbk I use Novell IDM to interface it all now so I dont have to log into it at all [03:56:03] <jbk> then there's the whole two sets of SNA interoperability [03:56:25] <RElling> hallu_: Solaris has had a real time scheduler (preemptable kernel) for, oh, 15 years or so [03:56:30] <jbk> basically all OS/390 interoperate, and everything not a mainframe interoperate [03:56:31] <Syndelor> You must be a bank admin jbk [03:56:57] <jbk> but making a non-mainframe talk to a mainframe w/ SNA? forget it [03:56:59] <jbk> actually [03:57:04] <jbk> i am now [03:57:07] <Syndelor> lol [03:57:14] <jbk> but amusingly, all my mainframe pains were at a telco :) [03:57:17] <Syndelor> Yeah I use to be could not stand the politics [03:57:40] <hallu_> RElling: but does it have a switch to turn on real hard real time operation? Or is it just a question about priorizing processes properly to get them run no matter what on time? [03:57:41] <Syndelor> SNA with the OS400 was substantially improved [03:57:42] <jbk> it's actually a lot more relaxed than where i was working [03:58:11] <jbk> there used to be a sun box that had to talk SNA over a T1 to a mainframe to get call records [03:58:26] <jbk> (couldn't use TCP/IP because they didn't want to spend the money for the software for the mainframe) [03:58:29] <Syndelor> Cool it will be a fun and challenging place to work... Lots of opportunity to come up with from the hip solutions [03:58:38] <jbk> always had problem [03:58:45] <jbk> at the bank? [03:58:49] <Syndelor> Yeah [03:58:52] <hallu_> jbk: a OS/390? [03:59:02] <jbk> hallu_: yeah.. [03:59:10] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC [03:59:15] <jbk> the only way it would work reliabily was to drop the speed to 768k [03:59:29] <Syndelor> Did you use an SNA tunnel for the conn [03:59:33] <jbk> but even then, after a firmware update was done on some piece of the mainframe, it stopped working [03:59:37] <Syndelor> time outs would be a pain in that instance [03:59:47] <jbk> but the mainframers claimed 'it wasn't us' [03:59:53] <hallu_> jbk: isn't OS/390 supposed to be used to virtualize some Linux servers, or whatever the agenda it is that IBM is pushing? [03:59:58] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris [04:00:04] <hallu_> maybe even AIX [04:00:07] <Syndelor> hallu_, that is the OS/400 [04:00:12] <jbk> hallu_: it can, though i really doubt it's that useful [04:00:13] <Syndelor> using X Cards [04:00:24] <RElling> hallu_: the scheduler has several classes, real time (RT), time share (TS), fixed priority (FX), interactive (IA), fair share(FSS), and system. The priocntl command allows you to run processes in the appropriate class. [04:00:28] <jbk> i know they also tried to use USS on an OS/390 [04:00:28] <Syndelor> An the 400 with X cards is the SHIT [04:00:55] <hallu_> ok now I'm nofused, is OS/390 legacy hard and software? [04:01:15] <hallu_> RElling: yes, I see [04:01:24] *** estibi has quit IRC [04:01:36] <Syndelor> depends on who you ask lol [04:01:49] <Syndelor> it is dieing a slow painfull eol death [04:01:59] <hallu_> hehe [04:02:25] <RElling> I've heard some people wanting even more scheduling classes... innovation is easier with an extensible scheduler [04:02:27] <jbk> well i think the latest version of ACF2 (for example) touts mixed case passwords as a new feature [04:02:49] <Syndelor> lol [04:02:54] <hallu_> OS/390 has nothing to do with IBM S/390, right? [04:03:14] <jbk> well it's what's usually run on an S/390 [04:03:33] <Syndelor> S is system OS is operating system [04:03:41] <hallu_> right [04:03:49] <Syndelor> thos tricking people at IBM with no imagination [04:03:56] <hallu_> you learn something every day [04:04:22] <Syndelor> Yeap [04:04:53] <hallu_> but why is it dying? Didn't IBM spend big dollars on marketing the S/390 as a virtualization solution for businesses? [04:05:00] <hallu_> just some years ago [04:05:07] <Syndelor> Yeah then they got in bed with RedHat [04:05:18] <Syndelor> So they dont need it anymore [04:05:21] <jbk> and S/390 software is still $$$$$$$$$$ [04:05:23] <hallu_> I see :) [04:05:24] <sommerfeld> and someone's porting solaris to that hardware. [04:05:40] <jbk> and every little trivial addon is even more $$$$$$$ [04:05:42] <sommerfeld> though I think they're not calling it "S/390" any more [04:05:51] <jbk> zOS i think [04:05:52] <Syndelor> Cheaper and more profit to sell the x86 BIG boxes [04:06:08] <jbk> make it sound 'edgeier' [04:06:09] <hallu_> where can you get a S/390 for a reasonable price? Or can you? [04:06:16] <Syndelor> like the 128 processor blues [04:06:36] <Syndelor> ebay it man you will find some but good luck getting it under 40k [04:06:54] <hallu_> ok, that's totally out of range for me :) [04:07:12] <hallu_> also, the shipping costs would probably cost more than I make money in a month :) [04:07:13] <Syndelor> Yeah I was being sarcastic still working on typing it that way lol [04:07:28] <hallu_> :) [04:07:31] <Syndelor> Yeah it will be ablut 200lbs on the lite side [04:07:51] <Syndelor> if it has drives and ram it can double [04:08:01] <Syndelor> plus your electric bill would double [04:08:12] <jbk> double? [04:08:26] <Syndelor> and I beleive it still requires 220 so you would have ot get soeone to install a 220 circut for you [04:08:35] <hallu_> S/390's are just glorified IBM machines that have a lot of POWER chips in them, and a decent amount of memory? [04:08:36] *** _gavagai has joined #opensolaris [04:08:56] <Syndelor> The new ones are the old ones are huge [04:09:06] <Syndelor> the ones you can get cheaply anyway [04:09:11] <hallu_> ok [04:09:46] *** snuff-wo1k has joined #opensolaris [04:10:09] *** snuff-work has quit IRC [04:10:14] *** sahafeez has joined #opensolaris [04:10:43] *** yippi has joined #opensolaris [04:10:44] *** _gavagai has quit IRC [04:10:51] *** djgregor has joined #opensolaris [04:10:52] <hallu_> what really makes me sad is the demise of OpenVMS [04:11:03] <hallu_> but I guess Solaris compensates a bit [04:11:17] <Syndelor> I am glad Solaris is going to open and free and cheap support it is allowing me to get alot of it in place at work and replace linux and HPUX [04:11:24] *** Jondice has joined #opensolaris [04:11:33] <gisburn> yeah, the demise of Solaris is a real compensator... much worse then OpenVMS... =:-) [04:11:33] <jbk> ick hp-ux [04:11:58] *** kadath__ has quit IRC [04:12:05] <hallu_> talking about hp-ux, I just got today HP-UX 11 installation cd's :) [04:12:20] *** kadath__ has joined #opensolaris [04:12:30] <hallu_> or HP-sUX, as it should be called by anyone who has developed on one [04:12:39] <jbk> i prefer ph-ux [04:12:45] <hallu_> :) [04:12:52] <jbk> i once read an article that described it's memory management [04:12:57] <jbk> it made my head hurt [04:13:19] <jbk> overly complicated was an understatement [04:13:29] <sommerfeld> pa-risc is an odd beast. [04:13:42] <jbk> then you had the bizzare limitations for 32-bit processes [04:13:43] <Syndelor> The 15 min reboot psses me off and that is with only 3 gig of ram [04:13:47] <gisburn> jbk: wait for the VM2.0 project [04:13:54] <Syndelor> some of my systems take 20 - 30 mins to reboot [04:13:55] <jbk> with even more bizzare workaround (memory windows) [04:14:28] <jbk> i'm hoping at some point sun will decide to share the details outside the company on that [04:15:05] <hallu_> isn't the hppa memory addressing turned upside down, so that stack grows in the opposite direction from for example sparc or x86? [04:15:21] <jbk> but like a 32-bit process was limited to 1.75gb of pages shared with any other process [04:15:34] <jbk> whether it was shared libraries, or sysv shared memory segments [04:15:42] <hallu_> jbk: including mmap()'ed files? [04:15:47] <jbk> err 1.75gb worth [04:16:00] <jbk> not sure, though wouldn't be surprised [04:16:00] <Syndelor> I am waiting for ZFS to go into the linux kernel [04:16:10] * jbk hands Syndelor a snickers bar [04:16:18] <Syndelor> lol [04:16:32] <Syndelor> Dude it is beyond fast compared to anything in the linux world [04:16:33] <hallu_> they say that the FUSE ZFS implementation is not that bad [04:16:38] <Syndelor> puts even reiser to shame [04:16:52] <hallu_> reiser == unstable PoS [04:16:53] <sommerfeld> hallu_: well, pa-risc doesn't have a hardware stack direction. software convention on MPE had it grow up, so they did the same on hp-ux. [04:17:18] <hallu_> ok [04:17:27] <Syndelor> reiser is a great FS I have nothing bad to say about it especially since I am living in a Novell suse worls [04:17:30] <Syndelor> reiser is a great FS I have nothing bad to say about it especially since I am living in a Novell suse world [04:17:33] *** gdamore has left #opensolaris [04:17:34] <gisburn> hallu_: We run Reiser3 by default and have no problems, unlike the ext3fs junk which suffers from ongoing log corruption from time to time [04:17:47] <Syndelor> Yeap [04:18:02] <Syndelor> the reiser fs is better for long uptime systems [04:18:09] <Syndelor> and database systems [04:18:16] <hallu_> I have had major problems with reiserfs 3 when I was still living in a area where power shortages were common [04:18:46] <sommerfeld> syndelor: is that a polite way of saying it doesn't cope with crashes? [04:18:48] <hallu_> the filesystems would corrupt, and you had to use Knoppix to rebuild the filesystem [04:18:49] <Syndelor> Yeah it may take a min to come back but it will be correct and always come back [04:19:04] <Syndelor> No not at all [04:19:16] <Syndelor> I beleive it copes with them better than ext3 [04:19:38] <Syndelor> I have never had issue with losing a reser from a crash like I have multiple ext3 fs [04:19:52] <gisburn> hallu_: that was a problem in the _early_ reiser3 versions. this has all been solved since _years_ but is still an argument for the ext3fs people to promote their "solution" [04:20:22] <Syndelor> I agree with gris [04:20:27] <Syndelor> gisburn, [04:20:29] <hallu_> gisburn: I thought I was using a pretty recent reiserfs implementation [04:20:32] <gisburn> hallu_: this is the same issue as solaris is sometimes called "Slowaris" because it was slow in Solaris 2.1 [04:20:49] <Syndelor> YEAP..... [04:21:02] <Syndelor> I use to call it that until 9 [04:21:10] <gisburn> hallu_: I'm using Reser 3.6 here and it's rock-solid, even if I kill QEmu running Linux VMs in the middle of a write [04:21:15] <Syndelor> but that was when i started really using it [04:21:51] <hallu_> hmh, I remember a linux developer named Dave Miller comment (or spread FUD) about Solaris, stating basically that vanilla linux scales a lot better than Solaris, even on bigger iron [04:22:00] <bda> Yeah, reiserfs... the thing that twice a year panics your kernel and takes hours to fsck... [04:22:05] <sommerfeld> if you know where to look you can find a workload that will bring any system to its knees. [04:22:26] <gisburn> bda: sorry, I never saw reiserfs doing that. [04:22:26] <hallu_> gisburn: yeah, I'm glad that it works for you, I just have some bad experience with it [04:22:37] <bda> gisburn: I've seen it plenty in the last three or so years. [04:22:49] <bda> Though lately much less, moving everything to XFS.. [04:23:01] <hallu_> sommerfeld: lies, damn lies and statistics? [04:23:05] <Syndelor> bda I agree partially if it goes hard and is a big partition it can take a while but the consistancy is 10 fold better tha ext3 [04:23:28] <gisburn> sommerfeld: well, I can post shell scripts around to eat all memory as we now have a 64bit shell to suck memory for breakfast... :-) [04:23:35] <bda> Syndelor: I'm not talking about power loss. I'm talking about reiser popping the kernel. [04:23:59] <hallu_> bda: what linux kernel are you running? [04:24:03] <Syndelor> I have not had that issue but then again I am moving to ZFS from reiser so .... [04:24:03] <sommerfeld> zfs scrub >> fsck [04:24:06] <jbk> gisburn: don't worry... vm 9245209240.0 (on linux) will deal with it [04:24:21] <bda> hallu_: Various. Some ancient 2.4, some recent 2.6. [04:24:38] <bda> The systems with 30GB of Maildir on them seem to cause the most problems. [04:24:50] <bda> Which is hilarious considering the whole "lots of small files" reputation.. [04:24:51] <hallu_> hmh, I've never seen a panic regarding reiserfs .. [04:24:59] *** mustang has quit IRC [04:25:02] <Syndelor> I have several 1TB reiserfs systems for mail and I have had no issue with them [04:25:02] <jbk> i like when ocfs does i/o fencing on linux [04:25:03] <hallu_> bda: :) [04:25:07] <jbk> it actually apologizes [04:25:07] <gisburn> "Linux slimemonster 2.6.13-15.8-default #1 Tue Feb 7 11:07:24 UTC 2006 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux" is stable [04:25:56] <Syndelor> So you are running Suse gisburn [04:26:12] <gisburn> yes [04:26:29] <hallu_> talking about filesystems, does Solaris have the patches on UFS that are incorporated into all BSD systems? [04:26:34] <gisburn> no [04:26:49] <hallu_> like dirperf (if it was called that), soft updates, ffs? [04:27:01] <hallu_> hmm [04:27:49] <Syndelor> Is anyone else running zfs ? [04:27:56] <hallu_> of course [04:28:10] <RElling> I've been running ZFS for about 2 years [04:28:11] <hallu_> ZFS === the mad shit [04:28:22] <bda> zfs++ [04:28:37] <bda> Except when a disk starts flaking on you. Then things are sad. [04:28:56] <RElling> .. or is it 3? Good life goes fast, and I've never had a data problem with ZFS... [04:29:02] <sommerfeld> if dirpref is the tweak to not be stupid in choosing cylinder groups for new directories, solaris ufs has a version of that [04:29:20] <sommerfeld> zfs seems to be more tolerant of disks flaking than other filesystems. [04:29:30] <jbk> it just fails a bit differently [04:29:50] <bda> sommerfeld: I imagine Sol10u3 is much suckier than anything say, recent. But .. No, not really. [04:29:55] <RElling> sommerfeld: definitely... I've been collecting partially failed disks for years and ZFS does protect from many errors, [04:30:02] <hallu_> sommerfeld: no, I think it had to do with creating a hashtable attached to the directory vnode with the contents of the directory [04:30:04] <bda> Not until the disk has been marked unavail or offline. [04:30:06] <RElling> with FMA phase2 its even better [04:30:06] <Syndelor> I run all of them on RAID5 with Hot Spare so I see no issues with a flaky disk because my card pulls it out with the first few errors and runs full checks on it [04:30:13] <hallu_> sommerfeld: it might have been called dirhash too, I'm not sure [04:30:16] *** sparvu has quit IRC [04:30:53] <sommerfeld> had one case where I needed to put a flailing disk out of its misery before zfs got unstuck. [04:30:53] <RElling> Syndelor: hot spare == good idea [04:31:03] <bda> sommerfeld: I've had that happen a few times. [04:31:16] <Syndelor> RElling, disk is so cheap it is a no brainer for me [04:31:27] <bda> I also noticed the other day that even after a hot spare takes over an unavil disk, I/O seems to .. suck, until the unavail is detached. [04:31:44] <sommerfeld> .. but it then picked up as if nothing had gone wrong for apps (while starting the replace to the hotspare) [04:31:45] <Syndelor> What hardware platform [04:31:46] <RElling> I've got a partially failed disk which will bring a SATA controller to its knees... can't find a system yet that doesn't croak [04:31:48] <Syndelor> bda [04:31:50] <bda> I didn't have time to really diagnose the problem, it being our master db box. :\ [04:31:59] <sommerfeld> bda: what sort of storage? [04:32:05] <hallu_> hey btw., I have an Sun Ultra 5 with an quad port hme card. Would it work inside a PC running OpenSolaris? [04:32:08] <bda> Dell 210S. [04:32:15] <Syndelor> I use HP 365's and 585's with no issue [04:32:22] <bda> I've had it happen with SATA, IDE... [04:32:39] <bda> SATA a number of times, thanks to the X2100 M1 backplanes being garbage. [04:32:44] <Syndelor> I use sas these days but my old scsi drives even didnt have that issue [04:32:54] <Syndelor> dell = garbage [04:32:59] <Syndelor> no offence [04:33:02] <Syndelor> I am not a Dell fan [04:33:04] <Syndelor> at all [04:33:06] <bda> Seriously, it's not the storage. [04:33:08] <sommerfeld> my experience has been with fiberchannel and scsi jbods. [04:33:27] <Syndelor> I love my EVA 32 paths to block glory [04:33:38] <sommerfeld> the controller and/or driver is more likely to be at issue. [04:34:02] <Syndelor> I find the emulex more stable than the qlogic oddly in Solaris [04:34:03] <bda> sommerfeld: I would say it's zfs not marking the drive being unavail more aggresively, but.. [04:34:17] <bda> For sure there are lots of reasons not to do that that I'm not smart enough to get. :) [04:34:50] <sommerfeld> bda: the diagnosis engine will no doubt improve with experience. [04:35:01] <RElling> hallu_: I don't see the hme on b72 x86... hmmm... b73 shows a QFE/HME merge but I'm not sure what that means. [04:35:17] <sommerfeld> i've also been using nevada pretty much exclusively. [04:35:17] <hallu_> ok, thanks for the info [04:35:23] <bda> sommerfeld: It is certainly not killer, and as I said, it's not recent. [04:35:26] <hallu_> RElling: btw., where did you look it up? [04:35:49] <sommerfeld> garrett d'amore has been working on that. i believe x86 qfe/hme driver is in his queue but there are some .. interesting issues. [04:35:54] *** Shiv_1 has joined #opensolaris [04:35:57] <Syndelor> bash-3.00# uname -a [04:35:57] <Syndelor> SunOS Slave-1 5.11 snv_64a i86pc i386 i86pc [04:35:57] <Syndelor> bash-3.00# [04:36:16] <Syndelor> All of mine are Nevada in dev 10 in prod [04:36:20] <RElling> hallu_: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/all/ [04:36:54] <sommerfeld> (IIRC a qfe's mac addresses are hidden in places that require an openfirmware engine to find..) [04:36:55] <RElling> but don't ask me what "thunder" or "batoka" are, I'll just smile [04:37:16] <hallu_> RElling: I'll have a look at that, thanks for the link [04:37:32] <jbk> just search for it on the register or such :) [04:37:58] <RElling> I think you can find a more modern quad ethernet which would be better, though [04:38:37] <hallu_> RElling: I thought the hme cards were supposed to be really good quality 100Mbit cards [04:38:59] <hallu_> I have a few Digital quad port cards, and they are pretty good [04:39:23] <RElling> for their time, yes. and quite reliable, too. But I can buy a more modern card for $2-5 at the swap meet [04:39:36] <RElling> once vendors put ethernet on mobo, cards are disappearing [04:40:27] <hallu_> RElling: you mean that for 100Base-TX there are better really cheap cards than the hme? [04:40:57] <hallu_> I think the lowest end of all is the Realtek 8139 [04:41:07] <hallu_> sure, you can get those for 10euro in a shop [04:41:32] <RElling> methinks. But for $10 you can have GbE, $30 for a GbE switch. why bother with 100Mbit? [04:41:33] <hallu_> but they are supposed to be really crappy, unless you have a very fast computer [04:41:57] <hallu_> RElling: of course you're right [04:42:31] <hallu_> infact, I am going on monday to pickup a HP Procurve 24-port GbE switch that is manageable [04:42:49] <jbk> RElling: good question for the v890 :) [04:44:39] <sommerfeld> RElling: well, hardware guys seem to be talking quite a bit about some interesting new parts. one of them was showing off a chip picture of a 4-port coherance hub at the MIT career fair. [04:46:31] *** postwait has joined #opensolaris [04:47:05] <hallu_> I recon Solaris 10 won't run on a Sun SparcStation 20? [04:47:15] <jbk> i keep wanting to know when proximity communication's gonna be brought to a server [04:47:24] <jbk> hallu_: nope [04:47:51] <hallu_> can you get solaris 9 for free? Or do you have to pay? [04:48:57] *** linux_user400354 has joined #opensolaris [04:49:03] <sommerfeld> jbk: http://www.hotchips.org/hc19/press/hotchips_in_the_news.htm links to http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=201800931 [04:49:14] <jbk> i know it's being used in some switch prototyle [04:50:54] <RElling> sommerfeld: I hadn't heard that term, but shame on me, http://www.opensparc.net/cgi-bin/goto.php?w=/pubs/preszo/07/HC19.sphillips.v1.pdf [04:53:12] <sommerfeld> jbk: though that sounds more like a technology demo/debugging rig rather than a prototype for a product. [04:53:12] *** Shiv_1 has quit IRC [04:54:18] <Syndelor> night all [04:54:27] *** Shiv_1 has joined #opensolaris [04:54:30] <Syndelor> be back later [04:54:35] <sommerfeld> And batoka gorge is somewhere near victoria falls. [04:54:43] *** Syndelor has quit IRC [04:56:35] *** gnut has joined #opensolaris [04:56:36] <gnut> hi [04:57:02] <gnut> anyone have any ideas on why I get "permission denied" errors when I try to su to a user from root in brandz? b73 [04:57:24] <gnut> lx_brand.so.1: not found.su: /bin/bash: Permission denied [04:59:50] <LeftWing> Trying to execute something not marked executable, perhaps? [05:00:09] <gnut> LeftWing: i'm scouring my centos installation and trying to see what that could be [05:00:18] <CIA-26> jl139090: PSARC/2007/490 Thunder software support, 6549776 Solaris support needed for Thunder blades. [05:00:19] <CIA-26> mrj: 6610655 6515322 reintroduces 6518485 [05:00:20] <CIA-26> tz204579: 6578465 adt.xml fails to document the <title>, <program> and <see> tags., 6580703 bsmrecord -p passwd is wrong. [05:00:21] <CIA-26> zl149053: 6498817 the iSCSI target needs to use SMF rather than a conf file (fix ELF runtime) [05:00:22] <CIA-26> sp92102: 6590340 brand_sys_int80() could do more sanity checks [05:00:23] <CIA-26> georges: 6577279 nl7c_logd_init causes kernel heap corruption when KMF_BUFTAG is enabled. [05:00:24] <CIA-26> svemuri: PSARC 2007/322 Batoka 4U Platform Support, FWARC 2007/529 Victoria Falls Perf Regs HV API, 6586280 ON platform support for SUNW,T5440, 6577856 sun4v xt_sync changes to aid timeout debugging [05:00:27] <CIA-26> rm160521: 6596190 "zfs list" is slow due to version property [05:00:30] <CIA-26> rz201010: 6600970 warlock failed due to function declaration conflict in ddi_dki_comm.inc and ddi_dki_impl.c [05:01:11] <gnut> I can su from root to root :) [05:01:16] <gnut> but I can't su from root to guest [05:02:08] <RElling> gnut: can you login as guest? [05:02:36] <gnut> RElling: from ssh? no. nor can I su. [05:02:59] <gnut> oh [05:03:00] <gnut> bizarre. [05:03:11] <gnut> i tried to login using ssh [05:03:14] <gnut> it dumps me out [05:03:16] <gnut> same error as the su [05:03:24] <RElling> bash broke? [05:03:31] <gnut> but it prints out the motd [05:03:36] <sommerfeld> lx_brand.so.1: not found may be the clue [05:03:37] <gnut> i tried zsh and same error [05:03:41] <LeftWing> SSH will print out the MOTD. [05:04:00] <sommerfeld> is there a missing piece within the zone? [05:04:13] <gnut> lx_brand.so.1 is found in /usr/lib of the native zone [05:04:32] *** dolske has joined #opensolaris [05:04:38] <gnut> sommerfeld: hmm... how should i go about figuring that out? [05:04:51] <gnut> i just luupgrade this morning to b73 since i was having the same issue on b72 [05:05:30] <sommerfeld> i haven't used brandz at all. i wouldn't be surprised if you needed to put lx_brand.so.1 inside the linux zone's /usr/lib [05:05:44] *** jade_angel has quit IRC [05:06:01] <sommerfeld> (might be a bit of a glitch in either install or upgrade not doing that) [05:06:04] <RElling> ldd /bin/bash? [05:06:25] <gnut> ldd shows the libraries are all found... libtermcap, libdl, libc, ld-linux [05:06:35] <gnut> i will try coping over lx_brand.so.1 to /usr/lib in the brandz [05:07:11] <gnut> nope.. didn't do it. [05:07:19] <sommerfeld> there may; be clues in http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=135318 [05:07:21] <gnut> I suppose luupgrade could have not upgraded thinsg correctly. [05:07:46] <gnut> i thought they just replaced packages, so if errors existed, installing new packages would fix it. [05:08:04] <sommerfeld> something about /var/ld/ld.config [05:08:05] <gnut> sommerfeld: thanks. let me check that out [05:08:30] *** storycrafter has quit IRC [05:09:08] <dolske> *grr* I just installed SXDE 9/07, and Xorg won't start... /var/dt/Xerrors just says "Server unexpectedly died." Running /usr/X11/bin/i386/Xorg complains about a missing symbol (FontFileBitmapSources) in libXfont.so, which I'm guessing is why it won't start... [05:09:24] <dolske> any idea? [05:09:42] <dolske> I got Xsun working, although at the wrong resolution and rotation :/ [05:09:48] <RElling> How much RAM? [05:09:52] <gnut> sommerfeld: my /var/ld/ld.config in the lx zone is empty [05:09:56] <sommerfeld> slides 12 and 13 of https://foss.in/2006/cfp/slides/BrandZ__A_framework_for_non-native_vitualized_operating_enviroment_in_OpenSolaris_75.pdf may help [05:10:01] <gnut> but ldd shows that the libraries are findable [05:10:04] <hallu_> I was wondering whether there is somekind of clustering solution for OpenSolaris, something like OpenMosix in Linux, or Beowulf, or what you have? [05:10:07] *** storycrafter has joined #opensolaris [05:12:43] <Shiv_1> hallu_: Sun Cluster Software [05:12:48] <RElling> Padres won! gotta go dirnk some beers [05:12:59] <gnut> this worked before on b70... i wonder if brandz is now updated to work with a higher version of centos? [05:13:09] <hallu_> Shiv_1: and it's proprietary? [05:13:10] <gnut> or something just borked my setup [05:13:22] <RElling> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/ha-clusters/ [05:13:25] *** yippi has quit IRC [05:13:58] <RElling> not HPC explicitly... opensource n1ge is more oriented towards HPC [05:14:14] <hallu_> hmm ok [05:16:44] <Shiv_1> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/ha-clusters/ohac/FAQ -> To know which parts of cluster agents are open sourced (as per the FAQ most are) [05:19:12] *** xuewei has quit IRC [05:20:49] *** linux_user400354 has quit IRC [05:23:59] *** perlmonk has quit IRC [05:31:46] *** gnut has quit IRC [05:32:03] *** m0le has quit IRC [05:37:06] *** gisburn has quit IRC [05:42:04] *** libkeiser has joined #opensolaris [05:45:22] *** m0le has joined #opensolaris [05:53:03] *** sommerfeld has quit IRC [05:54:08] *** libkeise1 has quit IRC [05:54:46] *** Sup3rkiddo has joined #opensolaris [05:59:33] *** slowhog has joined #opensolaris [06:03:09] *** Shiv__ has joined #opensolaris [06:12:02] <Gman> hrm, the audio on jim's test farm presentation at frosug isn't so good :( [06:12:05] *** masta has joined #opensolaris [06:13:03] <e^ipi> what with the excessive use of the letter "z" in solaris marketing stuff, I imagine my canadian-ness will be quite apparent at the summit [06:13:07] <e^ipi> I just realized that [06:13:23] <jbk> what do you mean, eh? :) [06:13:45] <e^ipi> "zed" vs. "zee" [06:13:51] <e^ipi> one is correct, the other is american [06:13:54] <e^ipi> ;) [06:14:29] <masta> z? [06:14:40] <masta> zones and zfs... and the supporting programs [06:15:02] <e^ipi> brandZ, zfs, raidz, etc [06:15:33] <jbk> rooter vs router? :) [06:15:43] <kjetilho> and ze Zervice Management Framevork [06:16:01] <kjetilho> uh, I mean Fazility [06:16:10] <masta> lmao [06:16:17] <e^ipi> i'm canadian, not a sterotype of an austrian [06:16:27] <kjetilho> could've fooled me [06:17:50] *** Sup3rkiddo has quit IRC [06:18:00] <jbk> one of my old roommates was from hamilton and would sometimes say it as 'rooter' [06:18:36] <bda> South Philly and Jersey people say "wooder" instead of "water". [06:18:45] <bda> Drove me nuts for years when I first moved here. [06:18:56] <e^ipi> west cost dialect it's router ( r-ow-ter ) [06:19:00] <kjetilho> jbk: I say "rootah" [06:19:07] <e^ipi> you don't count [06:19:12] <kjetilho> 1 2 3 4 5! [06:20:10] <bda> One of my buddies says "libe" instead of "lib", but still says "bin" instead of say, "bine". [06:22:38] *** Shiv_1 has quit IRC [06:23:12] *** binarycrusader has left #opensolaris [06:23:38] *** ashner has joined #opensolaris [06:26:55] <Gman> jbk, +1 for rooter :) [06:28:03] * Gman also of the solAHRis rather than solAIRis persuasion [06:28:20] <e^ipi> i go back and forth [06:28:41] <jbk> at a previous job, we dealt a lot with some engineers from siemens [06:28:48] <e^ipi> (we get a lot of american TV) [06:28:59] <jbk> and they'd always pronounce informix as infamix [06:30:18] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC [06:30:29] <jbk> i think the group was a british company siemens bought and then moved everyone to florida [06:31:29] <e^ipi> there's no real sparc emulator, is there? [06:31:54] <e^ipi> IIRC qemu was pretty braindead and useless in that regard [06:36:33] *** Shiv_1 has joined #opensolaris [06:37:39] *** Fish has joined #opensolaris [06:38:14] <Fish> hello [06:39:41] *** dolske has quit IRC [06:45:12] *** jyeary has quit IRC [06:46:42] *** ninjazach has joined #opensolaris [06:47:05] <ninjazach> Is Sun planning on removing CDE and all the old legacy and OpenWin stuff from Solaris Express? [06:48:33] *** simford has quit IRC [06:51:39] *** ninjazach has quit IRC [06:57:34] *** Shiv__ has quit IRC [07:00:21] <CIA-26> jveta: 6573171 unnecessary I/O resource warnings on some machines [07:04:24] *** GoodKarma has joined #OpenSolaris [07:13:22] *** bengtf has quit IRC [07:14:00] *** BadKarma has quit IRC [07:14:00] *** GoodKarma is now known as BadKarma [07:20:15] *** laca has quit IRC [07:27:30] <e^ipi> when you want to define a bunch of values, is there something other than #define that won't make studio puke up warnings about promoting constants to unsigned longs? [07:28:04] <jbk> you can define them with 'UL' at the end [07:28:43] <kjetilho> could an enum be appropriate? [07:28:53] <e^ipi> nah, it's a bitfield [07:29:22] <kjetilho> ok, then UL is the right answer [07:29:37] <e^ipi> thx [07:29:48] <e^ipi> self taught coder = sloppy coder [07:30:03] *** Disreali has joined #opensolaris [07:30:52] *** dolske has joined #opensolaris [07:31:17] *** Disreali has quit IRC [07:31:26] *** estibi has joined #opensolaris [07:32:53] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris [07:38:51] *** simford has joined #opensolaris [07:45:44] *** yongsun has quit IRC [07:52:56] *** sparcdr has joined #opensolaris [07:53:00] <sparcdr> hi here [07:53:05] <sparcdr> *there [07:53:12] <sparcdr> tis me :) [07:53:35] *** manish has joined #opensolaris [07:53:46] <sparcdr> can't find a changelog for SXCE B73, what version of X.org, JDS, and ON are in it? [07:56:39] *** slowhog has left #opensolaris [07:58:41] *** derchris^ has quit IRC [07:58:42] *** m0le has quit IRC [07:58:55] *** derchris^ has joined #opensolaris [08:00:45] <Gman> sparcdr, jds/gnome = gnome 2.18 [08:02:11] *** m0le has joined #opensolaris [08:02:31] <jbk> speaking of which, with 2.20 out, has it been targeted to be bundled with any specific build yet? [08:02:40] <Gman> 75 hopefully [08:02:52] <jbk> ahh.. [08:03:13] <sparcdr> gotcha [08:03:15] <jbk> hopefully by the time it's out, i'll have my laptop back :) [08:03:19] <sparcdr> haha :) [08:03:28] <jbk> i'm gonna be at the summit laptop-less [08:03:32] <sparcdr> i need to upgrade a ton of bits [08:03:41] <sparcdr> but got stuff to do (Sleep) [08:03:43] <sparcdr> :D [08:03:52] <Gman> jbk, i doubt you'll really need one [08:03:56] <jbk> had hoped to wait until after to send it in [08:03:59] <Gman> though hopefully you'll have access to a few machines [08:04:06] <sparcdr> aha, cool [08:04:14] <jbk> but the power connector issue (too lose) is just too annoying for me [08:04:19] <sparcdr> i have access to my ultra-20 :) [08:04:31] <kjetilho> sparcdr: stopping by servers on a snowy night? [08:04:34] <sparcdr> such a wonderful box, haven't had it more than 2 days [08:04:43] <jbk> (dvd drive is also busted as well as the left touchpad button tends to stick) [08:04:47] <sparcdr> haha :o [08:04:48] <jbk> they are nice [08:04:56] <jbk> i had one as a workstation at my old job [08:05:02] <sparcdr> my thinkpad t30 went to decommissioned status [08:05:54] <sparcdr> cause speedstep (Fixed in ON 73 I believe) wasn't working, no wpa/g compliant cardbus or mpi wireless, disks failing, yeah, time to let it go to pasture. I have a solid notebook anyways. [08:05:58] <sparcdr> kinda unfortunate [08:06:21] <sparcdr> came on to ask about B73 of SXCE, and thanks for the answer [08:06:27] <jbk> i did have to buy a wireless card that worked w/ nevada [08:06:30] <sparcdr> I read over GNOME 2.20 release notes, quiet nice [08:06:31] <jbk> but it was only $10 [08:06:35] <sparcdr> i have two that work with nevada :) [08:06:40] <jbk> well there was the $50 atheros card [08:06:49] <jbk> but that thing was pulling too much juice [08:06:54] <sparcdr> but they interfere with my N wireless ap, and have to use wpa_supplicant [08:06:55] <jbk> and overheating my laptop [08:06:58] <sparcdr> haha :/ [08:06:59] <jbk> and had serious stability problems [08:07:17] <sparcdr> my friend had a 500 milliwatt atheros pcmcia (Rare) drained battery in minutes flat [08:07:19] <jbk> it was hot to the touch [08:07:29] <sparcdr> normal wireless is 25-50mwatt [08:07:30] <sparcdr> :/ [08:07:37] *** oninoshiko has joined #opensolaris [08:07:38] <sparcdr> he's kinda a security junky [08:08:24] <sparcdr> mainly does kernel hacks, but he's not a nice player when he's on your lan [08:08:24] <jbk> heh a friend of mine gets on me because i don't separate my wireless traffic onto a separate firewalled network from my wired traffic [08:08:24] <sparcdr> :D [08:09:20] <sparcdr> he does that, wpa2/aes with radius and certificates, a separate wep network with tons of firewall options to restrict access to only the web, while using internal dns to blacklist domains he doesnt want friends accessing [08:09:33] <sparcdr> no place like 127.0.0.1 afterall [08:09:51] <jbk> hehe [08:10:21] <oninoshiko> why would i care what you are doing from the wifi? [08:10:36] <sparcdr> he's a paranoid assclown [08:10:45] <sparcdr> you wouldn't but he would [08:10:48] <oninoshiko> i can see seperating it from the wired traffic [08:10:51] <sparcdr> he even monitors bandwidth [08:11:01] <jbk> well [08:11:16] <oninoshiko> but if your going to do all that, get off my airwaves [08:11:27] <jbk> he runs a small MUSH that I and some other people frequent (mostly just to keep in touch) and we joke it's behind the iron curtain :) [08:11:45] <sparcdr> it's separated, using multiple channels from one atheros 5411 card, routing asterisk and all internet traffic, with wpa2 radius and certificates for accessing the private lan (nfs, et all) [08:11:47] *** manish has quit IRC [08:12:11] <sparcdr> i can understand why he secures it, he has 4 phone lines going through it, plus has remote users connecting in [08:12:40] * oninoshiko thinks encrypting wifi should be outlawed [08:12:41] <sparcdr> but anyways, just wanted to express my disbelief on how annoying it is to be on the god network [08:12:41] <sparcdr> :) [08:12:48] <sparcdr> haha, yeah [08:13:31] <sparcdr> can't get into mine with or without encryption, it uses wpa2 because you never know, but it only broadcasts 1000ft, and I have no neighbors :) [08:13:42] <jbk> well i'm not too worried [08:13:43] <sparcdr> Pre-N if you're curious why it can do that far [08:13:50] <jbk> the apartment complex has free wifi in the clubhouse [08:13:54] <jbk> which you can often pickup [08:13:58] <sparcdr> im not either it was requested of me to enable it [08:14:02] <sparcdr> cool [08:14:19] <sparcdr> brb [08:14:22] <oninoshiko> only those providing the most public good should be able to use the public airwaves. there is already too much noise [08:14:30] *** estibi has quit IRC [08:14:57] <Tempt> Mmmm, getting rid of commercial radio would free up a lot of bandwidth [08:15:08] *** Shiv_1 has quit IRC [08:15:13] <sparcdr> well, moreover opening more ranges [08:15:25] <sparcdr> for unlicensed use that is [08:16:03] <oninoshiko> not as bad, atleast they arnt encrypting all their traffic. [08:16:08] <sparcdr> @topic - downloading bits to my server now, fetching a little later [08:16:19] <sparcdr> anyone on ON 74? [08:16:24] <sparcdr> heh on on :/ [08:17:15] <Tempt> oninoshiko: Crypto is 'bad' somehow? [08:17:26] <oninoshiko> only on public airwaves [08:17:33] <Tempt> define public [08:17:36] <sparcdr> i dont see any performance hit, not a issue here, and it's not public here [08:17:47] <sparcdr> multiple signals on specific bands is my word for public [08:18:13] <sparcdr> blah [08:18:28] <sparcdr> looks like I need to go tweak some more [08:18:31] <sparcdr> cya guys later [08:18:32] <oninoshiko> if it is a radio signal leaving your property, its public [08:18:39] <Tempt> Aah well. [08:18:51] *** sparcdr has quit IRC [08:18:53] <Tempt> There's a lot of that. [08:20:49] <oninoshiko> my point is, if i run an open access point, i (should) have a better claim to the bandwidth because my usage provides a service to everyone. if you run a closed access point your just interfering with usage that could serve more people [08:22:49] <Tempt> What about mobile phone service, radio trunking systems, point to point links, commercial wireless ISPs, etc? [08:23:11] <Tempt> And given the behaviour of humanity, there's no way I'd be running an open access point these days. [08:25:24] <oninoshiko> well P2P links should be on highly directional antennas... assuming they are i dont have so much of an issue with them. commercial wireless ISPs (should) have a lesser claim then public access points. [08:25:50] <oninoshiko> i dont know enough about radio trunking systems to make an assessment [08:26:55] <Tempt> My complaints are more with the amount of shoddy hardware on 2.4Ghz. basically unusable here because of the sheer number of cordless phones and video transmitters and all that crap. [08:27:23] * Tempt doesn't see that the average cordless phone needs to hammer enough signal to cover 1.6km [08:27:40] * oninoshiko agrees with that [08:28:09] <Tempt> then again, I tend to think wireless technologies are over-used [08:28:56] <oninoshiko> the cell networks to meet a need, and are a benifit to public safety, so i dont have a problem with them [08:29:00] <oninoshiko> do* [08:31:13] <oninoshiko> if people and companies want a private network we have this wonderful new invention called "Cat 5" and "Fiber-optic cable" [08:32:03] *** alanc_away_ has quit IRC [08:32:16] <oninoshiko> i think im done ranting [08:32:25] *** alanc_away_ has joined #opensolaris [08:32:28] * oninoshiko packs up the soap box [08:37:30] *** luc_ has joined #opensolaris [08:54:30] <e^ipi> hmm... odd, my sparc isn't listening to ssh [08:59:56] <e^ipi> oh, nevermind [09:00:07] <e^ipi> the cable got kicked out [09:00:21] <e^ipi> THIS WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN A PROBLEM IF IT WERE WIRELESS [09:00:44] * oninoshiko rips out wifi card "yep... still a problem" [09:04:01] * bda turns on a couple wireless phones. :) [09:09:59] *** tcuji`e has quit IRC [09:11:56] *** bengtf has quit IRC [09:17:26] *** NikolaVeber has joined #opensolaris [09:18:31] *** Gman is now known as GmanAFK [09:22:24] <bda> scrub: scrub in progress, 5.88% done, 53h55m to go [09:22:25] <bda> ho ho ho. [09:25:48] <oninoshiko> whoa.... how big is the zpool? [09:28:10] *** simford has quit IRC [09:28:36] <e^ipi> it speeds up quickly [09:29:37] *** blindfish has joined #opensolaris [09:34:06] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris [09:42:55] *** Gropi has joined #opensolaris [09:46:12] <victori_> well [09:46:22] <victori_> having a bit of an issue with postgresql on sxce [09:46:30] <victori_> smf says it is restarting too quickly? [09:46:33] <victori_> ugh..what? [09:49:02] <e^ipi> it means it's dieing right after it starts, and SMF restarts it [09:49:11] <oninoshiko> have you looked in postgre's logs? [09:49:12] <e^ipi> eventually SMF gives up and faults [09:49:16] <victori_> it is complaining about postmaster not having a pid file [09:49:29] <victori_> which is odd, db works fine if I start it manually via postmaster [09:50:54] *** sahafeez has quit IRC [09:53:45] <oninoshiko> sounds like a problem with the manifest [09:54:41] <oninoshiko> or a pid exsists with the wrong perms (so it cant make a new one?) [09:55:02] <oninoshiko> pid file* [09:56:25] <victori_> nope perms are correct, looks like the startup script has issues [09:56:51] <victori_> ran /lib/svc/method/postgresql manually, and ya seems like scxe has issues with postgresql [09:58:14] *** dclarke has quit IRC [09:58:32] <oninoshiko> hrm... then im surprised something like that got through [09:58:45] <victori_> ya [09:59:35] <oninoshiko> well i bid you all goodnight [09:59:46] *** oninoshiko has quit IRC [10:00:07] *** dmarker has quit IRC [10:00:23] *** dmarker has joined #opensolaris [10:02:29] *** simford has joined #opensolaris [10:10:48] *** dunc has quit IRC [10:12:02] *** emiel_ has quit IRC [10:14:15] *** g4lt-sb100 is now known as g4lt-mordant [10:14:34] *** luc_ has quit IRC [10:16:14] *** alanbur has joined #opensolaris [10:16:55] * alanbur is tired [10:17:12] *** manish has joined #opensolaris [10:17:45] *** manish is now known as monzie [10:19:20] *** sparvu has joined #opensolaris [10:20:43] *** nostoi has joined #opensolaris [10:24:52] *** mikefut has joined #opensolaris [10:30:22] *** NikolaVeber has quit IRC [10:30:31] *** monzie has quit IRC [10:37:27] * m0le wave [10:46:14] *** andyshack has joined #opensolaris [10:47:38] <andyshack> Hey folks, After upgrading webmin through the gui i did the stupid and reran setup.sh which appears to have b0rked it. Can anyone point me in the right direction? [10:58:47] *** deedaw has joined #opensolaris [11:31:42] *** emiel_ has joined #opensolaris [11:32:57] *** simford has quit IRC [11:35:04] <emiel_> Uhm did I just make a mistake? I missed the mirror part in a zpool add command. Now I'd like to remove the device from the pool. Possible? [11:36:44] <Tempt> Err [11:36:45] <Tempt> Nope. [11:38:28] <emiel_> Bummer. :( [11:38:43] <emiel_> Suggestion to correct my mistake. [11:39:23] <Tempt> I gather the pool has data that you care about? [11:40:31] <emiel_> Yeah. For sure. I've just spent a half a day preparing the disk. [11:40:49] <bda> :\ [11:40:55] *** bengtf_ has joined #opensolaris [11:41:12] <Tempt> Well, chalk it up to experience, backup your data and rebuild the pool. [11:42:24] <emiel_> I only have so many disks. :) The disk that was going to be my mirror had the orignal data. [11:42:27] <emiel_> ha ha [11:43:00] <Tempt> check the manpage for "zpool attach" [11:43:06] <Tempt> you might be able to squeeze it in to mirror [11:43:25] <Tempt> model the procedure with some files or something first. [11:45:40] <emiel_> ok. Thanks Tempt [11:45:49] <emiel_> I'll deal with this later. [11:45:50] <emiel_> bye [11:45:53] *** emiel_ has quit IRC [11:45:54] <Tempt> Later. [11:51:08] <WickedWicky> b00 [11:52:09] <madhatter> Moin [11:53:51] *** mikefut has quit IRC [11:54:36] *** Shiv_1 has joined #opensolaris [11:57:04] *** NikolaVeber has joined #opensolaris [11:58:04] *** simford has joined #opensolaris [12:05:48] *** andyshak has joined #opensolaris [12:06:11] <andyshak> ping andyshack [12:06:17] <andyshak> pfft [12:08:18] <trochej> [d] [12:12:56] *** simford has quit IRC [12:15:46] *** CIA-26 has quit IRC [12:16:33] *** andyshack has quit IRC [12:23:51] *** andyshak is now known as andyshack [12:26:33] *** toblun has quit IRC [12:27:43] *** jteo has joined #opensolaris [12:28:11] <jteo> re. [12:28:27] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris [12:36:36] *** CIA-26 has joined #opensolaris [12:39:02] *** bunker has joined #opensolaris [12:40:37] <jmcp> evening all [12:41:20] <WickedWicky> howedy [12:42:25] <jteo> evening jmcp. [12:42:32] <asyd> \_o< [12:42:33] <jmcp> hi jteo [12:42:47] <jmcp> jteo: been busy? [12:42:55] <jteo> jmcp: yup. [12:43:07] <jmcp> figured - don't recall seeing you in here for a while [12:43:15] <jteo> jmcp: things starting to settle down now. trying to get my bearings back. [12:43:21] <jmcp> glad to hear it [12:44:05] *** cmang has joined #opensolaris [12:56:33] *** Pietro_S has joined #opensolaris [12:56:50] *** cmang_ has quit IRC [13:06:11] *** TheZeroX has joined #opensolaris [13:08:21] *** jyeary has joined #opensolaris [13:09:08] *** CIA-26 has quit IRC [13:10:41] *** mikefut has joined #opensolaris [13:15:23] *** sioraiocht has quit IRC [13:15:54] *** jteo has quit IRC [13:18:43] *** nostoi has quit IRC [13:19:19] *** CIA-26 has joined #opensolaris [13:39:24] *** SirFunk has quit IRC [13:40:57] *** jwest- has joined #opensolaris [13:41:40] *** jwest- has left #opensolaris [13:48:02] *** Gropi_ has joined #opensolaris [13:48:37] *** vmlemon has joined #opensolaris [13:56:08] *** dunc has joined #opensolaris [13:57:16] *** ShanghaiScott has joined #opensolaris [14:03:07] *** tek-ops has quit IRC [14:03:25] *** mschenck has joined #opensolaris [14:05:38] *** Gropi has quit IRC [14:09:46] *** tcuji`e has joined #opensolaris [14:12:06] *** Gropi_ is now known as Gropi [14:14:09] *** jte1 has joined #opensolaris [14:14:53] *** halton has joined #opensolaris [14:16:00] *** master_o1_master has joined #opensolaris [14:19:30] *** ninjazach has joined #opensolaris [14:19:31] *** JWheeler has quit IRC [14:20:41] <ninjazach> Has anyone had any issues once they've installed SXDE, they haven't been able to boot Windows afterward. [14:22:04] <madhatter> Wow, I think I need new hardware. Liveupgrade is working for about 15 minutes and got about 10 percent upgraded yet... :-/ [14:25:09] <Pietro_S> ninjazach: same disk and ntfs root partion for windows but not the first one? [14:26:22] <ninjazach> Windows and Solaris are on the same hard disk, Windows was installed first, and SXDE second. [14:26:25] *** vmlemon has quit IRC [14:27:02] *** snuff-home has joined #opensolaris [14:27:25] <ninjazach> Pietro_S, http://pastebin.com/m2e1cfc7d [14:29:16] <ninjazach> Pietro_S, that's the output of prtpart, here's the grub settings as default made by the SXDE installer: http://pastebin.com/m4213aec4 [14:31:33] *** JWheeler has joined #opensolaris [14:31:44] *** master_of_master has quit IRC [14:36:45] <ninjazach> Pietro_S, have any clue? [14:39:08] *** cypromis has joined #opensolaris [14:40:16] *** vmlemon has joined #opensolaris [14:47:29] *** carbonunit has joined #opensolaris [14:47:56] <Pietro_S> no idea, but try googling I had this issue with gentoo 1.5y ago, there need to rerun something on ntfs partion, but I don't remember details [14:48:41] <ninjazach> Is it possible to boot Solaris from the NT bootloader? [14:49:02] *** Gekz is now known as Gekz[PDA] [14:51:41] <carbonunit> I've read quite a bit about ZFS now, but there's still one thing I haven't found a clear answer for: from what I understand, ZFS has build-in RAID functionality. but what requirements does it have? Can I basically set up some sort of JBOD and slap solaris with ZFS on it to get RAID-Z? [14:51:56] <jamesd> carbonunit, yes... [14:52:27] <carbonunit> wow, cool... seems like I can use my collection of 40-120GB drives :) [14:53:03] <jamesd> zfs does raid0 (even with just one disk), raid1 ( mirroring), raidz( like raid5), raidz2( like raid6) or combinations of the above, like raid50 or raid6 [14:53:40] <carbonunit> yeah, but usually, all drives need to be of the same size for eg raid5 [14:54:00] <jamesd> carbonunit, it gets tricky to do raidz on mismatched drives... the size of the raidz group will be the size of the smallest drive/slice * number of drives minus 1. [14:54:17] <carbonunit> ahh, ok then [14:54:35] *** sponix has joined #opensolaris [14:54:42] <jamesd> a 40GB, + 80 GB drive + 40GB drive in a raidz provides 80GB of raid storage... [14:55:28] <jamesd> but you can use slices of the drive... so 40GB drive + 40 GB drive + 40GB slice of the 80 gb drive, gives you 80GB raidz storage, + 40GB slice left from the 80GB drive. [14:55:28] <ninjazach> I hope I can figure this bootloader issue out soon. :D [14:55:58] <Pietro_S> ninjazach: nope, it's not possible to boot solaris from windows bootloader [14:56:17] <Pietro_S> not directly [14:56:18] <carbonunit> so the 80gb gets reduced to 40gb to create 3 identical drives, and another 40gb go away for redundancy, leaving me with 40+40gb, right? [14:56:32] <jamesd> yeap.. or you can slice them up. [14:56:41] <carbonunit> ahh, ok [14:57:02] <Pietro_S> you would need to have grub somewhere else and call it just after windows boot loader - which is very inpractical [14:57:26] <sponix> jamesd : ever seen a power supply that says 115V on it, but the it doesn't switch over to 220V ? [14:57:38] <ninjazach> be back [14:57:48] *** ninjazach has quit IRC [14:58:14] <jamesd> sponix, yes, but very old, most modern power suppulies are autoswitching or have a switch somewhere for 110/220 operation. [14:58:29] <sponix> jamesd: eMachine the wife has doesn't seem to switch over, it looks like it should, but it doesn't have that little notch where you can normally use a penny to flip it over or anything [14:58:56] <sponix> jamesd : being that it says 115V in Red, I don't think I would bank on automagic [14:59:09] <jamesd> carbonunit, you can do mulitple raidz groups in a pool... so if you have 3x40GB drives and 3x80Gb drives you can have two raidz in the pool [14:59:22] <sponix> jamesd: guess its a good thing I plan to replace the case/ps after it gets shipped over anyway [14:59:24] <carbonunit> jamesd: you can always try and let us now if you end up with lots of smoke ;) [14:59:43] *** halton has quit IRC [14:59:57] <sponix> jamesd : in a month or less I should be ready to setup my raidz array, I'll make sure to bug you, to make sure I don't hose it up [15:00:03] <jamesd> i have a pool with 5x 18GB drives, and 9x 9GB drives in a pool, gives a nice 148GB of raidz storage. [15:00:21] <jamesd> anyone want to see the zpool status info? [15:00:26] <sponix> from what I've done with zfs, its very simple though, used 4x 1G thumb drives to play with it [15:01:00] <carbonunit> jamesd: ok, sounds good. if I have 3 drives (40/40/80gb), can I make a 40/40/40 pool and use the other 40gb (left from downsizing the 80gb) for another pool? [15:01:02] <sponix> jamesd : I plan to have at least 4x 500G ata100 drives [15:01:21] <jamesd> the hardest thing to do in zfs currently is migrating data from one pool to another especially if you have filesystems that mount inside other filesystems liks [15:01:22] <sponix> drives are diff brands, so I might have to put partitions on them, instead of dedicating the whole drive -- correct ? [15:01:40] <sponix> I had warnings of diff sizes even with the 4x 1G thumb drives of different brands [15:02:11] <jamesd> NAME USED AVAIL REFER MOUNTPOINT [15:02:12] <jamesd> newpool/local 243M 123G 185M /usr/local [15:02:12] <jamesd> newpool/local/etc 217K 123G 181K /usr/local/etc [15:02:12] <jamesd> newpool/local/squid 58.1M 123G 14.2M /usr/local/squid [15:02:36] <sponix> pretty sexy [15:03:08] <kohju> Hmm... tftpd cannot launch on my Solaris10u4 (svcadm enable ...) . Someone tell me where is the log$B!)(B.... [15:03:16] <sponix> I'm thinking of breaking off some zfs from the boot drive, and putting /opt there as well [15:03:17] <jamesd> yeah its cool, i can snapshot the etc directory so i can go rollback config files, yet not snapshot log files. [15:03:50] <jamesd> sponix, yeah i have that as well i actually have /opt/csw in one filesystem, sunray server in another, /opt/coolstack in another. [15:04:18] <sponix> jamesd : SXDE B70 was crap on the eMachine btw, can't get the nvidia drivers to work right, ended up going back to Xorg nv && stealing the modelines for the monitor from my Linux box [15:04:42] *** Shiv_1 has quit IRC [15:04:45] <sponix> Oh, and the Developer Edition was lacking NetBeans, and that's why I did the install in the first place :P [15:05:18] <sponix> it was easy to slap it on there of course, but the strange part, java crashed several times during different NetBeans and Azureus runs [15:06:00] <jamesd> i just use express, and get my self. [15:06:14] <sponix> Ok, I'm done ranting... When I get the box back I'm gonna try to reinstall for the nvidia drivers, or find the Solaris NVDA packages to reinstall, the ones from nvidia.com don't work at all [15:06:24] *** Sup3rkiddo has joined #opensolaris [15:06:37] <sponix> well, there is a time limit here, and I'm surely over it... I had better get off so someone else can use it [15:06:44] <sponix> I'm on my way back to Iraq :( [15:06:54] <sponix> bye for now, and it was good chatting [15:06:57] <carbonunit> sponix: ouch [15:07:07] <carbonunit> good luck down there [15:07:18] <sponix> found a coule web links to get on freenode through http/java etc, so with any luck the Military hasn't blocked those _yet_ [15:07:30] <sponix> carbonunit : I just do computer/radio, fairly safe. [15:07:31] <sponix> bye for now [15:07:35] <carbonunit> what about tor? [15:07:39] *** sponix has quit IRC [15:08:18] <Pietro_S> carbonunit: I'm quite sure that tor and other network are forbiden in military (from obivius reasons) [15:08:45] <carbonunit> Pietro_S: I've never been in the mil, so I dunno [15:09:13] <Pietro_S> me too, but it's reasonable guess ;-) [15:09:22] <carbonunit> yeah, true :) [15:10:38] *** bengtf has quit IRC [15:11:18] *** JWheeler has quit IRC [15:15:39] *** CIA-26 has quit IRC [15:18:48] *** JWheeler has joined #opensolaris [15:26:35] *** dpn` has quit IRC [15:28:38] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC [15:33:14] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris [15:36:10] *** sponix has joined #opensolaris [15:37:00] <sponix> jamesd: SXDE B70 had setup the 1440x900 flatpanel LCD up at 640x480 ;) [15:38:32] <sponix> can you pop the DVD back in, and find the NVDA packages && pkgadd -d NVDA* from it ? I want to try the default "nvidia" driver that came with the build wht the manual modelines I have in for "nv" now [15:38:51] *** CIA-26 has joined #opensolaris [15:41:25] *** vmlemon has quit IRC [15:43:31] *** carbonunit has quit IRC [15:44:19] *** vmlemon has joined #opensolaris [15:44:39] *** ShanghaiScott has left #opensolaris [15:46:34] *** ninjazach has joined #opensolaris [15:47:09] <ninjazach> Hmm, still can't figure out why GRUB won't boot Windows... I can't find my XP install disk to repair the MBR either :/ [15:47:19] <ninjazach> Someone threw it out :| [15:48:34] *** linux_user400354 has joined #opensolaris [15:53:30] *** Odin- has joined #opensolaris [16:00:04] *** Gekz[PDA] is now known as Gekz[sleep] [16:05:30] *** CIA-26 has quit IRC [16:12:04] <Pietro_S> sponix: I always use latest nvidia drivers from nvidia web site [16:12:58] <Pietro_S> even now when it's already 64bit driver bundled in sxce ... (it's habbit) [16:15:00] <Pietro_S> ninjazach: on what error do windows die? [16:18:05] *** ninjazach has quit IRC [16:18:10] *** jini has joined #opensolaris [16:20:05] <jini> hi! I install solaris express b73 on my amd64 and oss driver for my audigy from http://www.opensound.com/. But I have not sound when run osstest in console. Any ideas? [16:21:25] <jini> osstest run test and write "OK" but no sound. When I start any sound file I see activity in ossxmix. [16:21:28] *** ballchalk has joined #opensolaris [16:21:44] <sponix> Pietro_S: I hear the built in nvidia gf4 MX isn't well supported [16:22:15] <sponix> jini: hook up speakers ? [16:22:38] *** onga has quit IRC [16:22:42] <Pietro_S> sponix: don't know, I have gf7600 and no problems here [16:22:56] <Pietro_S> jini: did you try osstest from console? [16:22:57] <sponix> yeah, 7600 and higher still has good support [16:23:10] <jini> yes, I try from console [16:23:11] <sponix> its like the phased out my old gf4 [16:23:28] <sponix> works great on *cough* linux ;) [16:23:47] <sponix> gotta run [16:23:56] *** sponix has quit IRC [16:24:04] <jini> speakers is ok [16:24:22] <Pietro_S> sponix: I'm quite sure that there are some binary drivers for gf4 at nvidia website [16:24:25] *** jyeary has left #opensolaris [16:25:43] *** CIA-26 has joined #opensolaris [16:26:55] <jini> Pietro_S: May be this is solaris build problem? [16:28:04] <Pietro_S> jini: don't know, I'm not expert on oss, but try oss forum, they react quite fast [16:29:21] <jini> Pietro_S: I'm already search at oss forum, but all problems are solved when osstest run in console. [16:29:56] <Pietro_S> did the instalation end well? [16:30:28] <jini> yes [16:31:26] <Pietro_S> did you try oss mixer? if isn't your audio muted? [16:32:46] <jini> I run ossxmix before go to console and run osstest, I move to max all:) [16:33:10] *** ballchalk has quit IRC [16:33:14] <trygvis> what does ossinfo say? [16:33:21] *** ballchalk has joined #opensolaris [16:33:36] <Pietro_S> jini: don't you have multiple audio devices? integrated one and audigy? [16:33:49] <jini> hm... I need to reboot for look ossinfo. [16:34:10] <jini> integrated devise is disable in bios [16:34:16] <jini> device [16:35:17] <jini> I reboot in solaris now, try to look ossinfo [16:35:24] *** jini has quit IRC [16:36:06] *** emiel_ has joined #opensolaris [16:36:53] *** ace___ has joined #opensolaris [16:41:55] <emiel_> hi all. I'm messing around with zfs again. I'm a little confused by the controller numbering I'm seeing. How is c? assigined? [16:42:05] <emiel_> s/assigined/assigned [16:44:30] *** jini_1 has joined #opensolaris [16:45:58] <jini_1> ossinfo say: Version info: OSS 4.0 (b1006/200708291218) (0x00040002) [16:46:03] <jini_1> Platform: SunOS/i86pc 5.11 snv_73 (nexus) [16:46:05] *** ballchalk has quit IRC [16:46:09] <jini_1> Number of audio devices: 6 [16:46:14] <jini_1> Number of audio engines: 10 [16:46:20] <jini_1> Number of MIDI devices: 0 [16:46:21] <jini_1> Number of mixer devices: 1 [16:46:26] <jini_1> Device objects [16:46:27] <jini_1> 0: sadasupport0 SADA compatibility layer [16:46:27] <jini_1> 1: sblive0 SB Audigy2 [16:46:27] <jini_1> 2: oss0 OSS core services [16:46:27] <jini_1> 3: ossusb0 USB audio/MIDI device [16:46:27] <jini_1> 4: vmix0 OSS transparent virtual support [16:46:41] <jini_1> MIDI devices (/dev/midi*) [16:46:42] <jini_1> Mixer devices (/dev/mixer*) [16:46:42] <jini_1> 0: SB Audigy2 (STAC9721) (Mixer 0 of device object 1) [16:46:42] <jini_1> Audio devices [16:47:51] <jini_1> "/dev/oss/sblive0/pcm0 SB Audigy2 main (device index 0)" [16:47:54] <Pietro_S> jini_1: next time pastle it to pastlebin (see topic) [16:48:35] <jini_1> ok, sorry [16:48:46] <jini_1> I don't see:( [16:49:47] <jini_1> Probally, ossinfo is good [16:54:12] *** jini_1 is now known as jini [17:00:45] *** emiel_ has quit IRC [17:01:08] *** ballchalk has joined #opensolaris [17:01:19] *** _gavagai has joined #opensolaris [17:06:04] <_gavagai> why asus c90 is that expensive [17:07:42] * Tempt yawns and pours a glass of cognac [17:13:43] <WickedWicky> OHHHHHHH [17:13:44] <WickedWicky> classy! [17:13:45] *** trochej has quit IRC [17:14:02] * WickedWicky draining himself with coffee trying to explain a coworker how some of the servers/services work [17:14:16] <_gavagai> hmm [17:14:18] <WickedWicky> gotta love having "shadow" on-call duty [17:14:19] <_gavagai> are you at work? [17:14:22] *** oninoshiko has joined #opensolaris [17:14:29] <WickedWicky> no, I am at home, but we have pagers [17:14:35] <WickedWicky> I am secondary contact [17:14:39] <_gavagai> ah [17:14:45] <Tempt> WickedWicky: Henessy VSOP [17:14:46] <_gavagai> how many systems you manage? [17:14:51] <Tempt> WickedWicky: Want a glass? [17:14:56] <WickedWicky> Yes please :) [17:15:07] <Tempt> Would you prefer whisky? [17:15:09] <WickedWicky> _gavagai: in total around 200 or so [17:15:16] <WickedWicky> naw, I am in a cognac mood [17:15:19] <Tempt> I've got Glenlivit and Glenkinchie [17:15:40] <_gavagai> wicked, cool [17:15:41] <Tempt> Glenlivet, I mean. [17:15:43] <_gavagai> all are solaris boxes? [17:15:47] <WickedWicky> Henessy... I used to drunk that stuff a lot... with some chocolate and a good cigar [17:15:51] <WickedWicky> _gavagai: nope! [17:15:55] *** jini has quit IRC [17:15:59] <Tempt> WickedWicky: No cigars, sadly. [17:16:18] <_gavagai> cool [17:17:24] <WickedWicky> we have HP DLx80 servers, Sun Netra/Fire and a couple of Dells we're gonna migrate to something more up to date [17:17:47] <WickedWicky> oh, and two SGIs which we cant reboot or halt cause we're afraid they'll never come up again [17:17:57] <oninoshiko> hrm... maybe i should migrate to a coffee shop [17:18:08] <WickedWicky> suspection is that the harddisks still spin at the moment cause the RPMs keep the platters on their place [17:18:18] *** Sup3rkiddo has quit IRC [17:18:23] <oninoshiko> 0.0 seriously? [17:18:26] <WickedWicky> yea [17:18:27] <WickedWicky> :P [17:18:37] <oninoshiko> thats kinda disterbing [17:18:49] <WickedWicky> it's not a good sign when you have to use a hammer to spin the disks up when you move to another colo [17:19:20] <oninoshiko> my i reccomend investing in some harddrives? [17:19:27] <WickedWicky> it is yes, what's more disturbing is that the machine runs some propriarty software which basicly means you have a server costing 10K a year for some stupid script [17:19:59] <WickedWicky> we were actually more trying to make a fridge out of it [17:20:23] <Tempt> heh [17:20:26] <Tempt> Nothing like old machines [17:20:40] <oninoshiko> ahh yes, that classic Seegee fridge [17:20:41] <madhatter> Are there known issues with automount of cdroms when live upgraded? I am not able to mount my cdrom anymore (b72) [17:20:46] <WickedWicky> yea [17:20:53] <WickedWicky> which was made by someone where I work now [17:21:11] <WickedWicky> http://home.planet.nl/~mourits/koelkast/ [17:21:13] <Tempt> Reminds me of the amount of consternation around rebooting an HP machine with an uptime of around 4.5 years [17:21:22] <WickedWicky> koelkast is dutch for fridge (obvious) [17:21:28] <WickedWicky> and planet.nl is one of our ISP brands [17:21:37] <Tempt> the previous reboot had been caused by a hardware failure, it it'd been up for 4 years then [17:21:43] <Tempt> two reboots in nearly 9 years. [17:22:35] <WickedWicky> haha, impressive [17:23:48] <Tempt> clunky full height 1Gb disks [17:24:05] *** ballchalk has quit IRC [17:24:32] <madhatter> I am wondering why I either get " no such file or directory" or "is already mounted or /home is busy" [17:24:46] <madhatter> But now chance to get it mounted at all [17:25:00] <Tempt> autofs? [17:25:15] <madhatter> Tempt: Guess so [17:25:26] <madhatter> Tempt: mount -o ro /dev/dsk/c1t1d0s0 /mnt/cdr [17:25:35] <Tempt> oh [17:25:39] <Tempt> not autofs then [17:25:52] <madhatter> Tempt: /mnt/cdr does exists, but it tells me "mount: /dev/dsk/c1t1d0s0 or /mnt/cdr, no such file or directory" [17:26:09] <madhatter> Tempt: I have to give it to mount with -f ? [17:26:17] <Tempt> does /dev/dsk/c1t1d0s0 exist? [17:26:18] <Tempt> :) [17:26:25] <WickedWicky> cdr... [17:26:28] <WickedWicky> trying to mount a cd? [17:26:47] <WickedWicky> if yes, try s2 [17:26:54] <WickedWicky> and add -F hsfs [17:27:00] <Tempt> and do what WW said [17:27:04] <madhatter> WickedWicky: cdr [17:27:43] <madhatter> Now I have s0 mounted to /mnt/cdr, it can't be ls'd ;) but I can unmount it ;) [17:29:20] *** stchang has joined #opensolaris [17:29:43] <madhatter> mount -F hsfs /dev/dsk/c1t1d0s2 /mnt [17:29:44] <madhatter> mount: No such device [17:30:43] <WickedWicky> what arch are you on [17:31:36] <madhatter> x86 [17:32:03] <WickedWicky> try p0 instead of s0 [17:32:52] *** linux_user400354 has quit IRC [17:32:52] <madhatter> Is there a way to force refreshing the devices? I moved the cdrom from c1d0 to c1d1 [17:33:02] <WickedWicky> devfsadm [17:33:04] <madhatter> WickedWicky: Hm, same error message with p [17:34:33] *** mikefut has quit IRC [17:34:38] <madhatter> Okay, I tried to cleanup [17:34:49] <madhatter> Now the c1t1 stuff is gone [17:34:56] <WickedWicky> which [17:35:01] <WickedWicky> makes me wonder... [17:35:11] <WickedWicky> why you try to mount c1t1 [17:35:35] <madhatter> Because I thought that might be the cdrom [17:36:00] <WickedWicky> what does la -la /dev/sr0 tell you? [17:36:10] <madhatter> WickedWicky: I have three disks c0d0, c0d1, c1d0 and then there must be a dvd/cd-rom drive somewhere [17:36:20] <Tempt> iostat -En [17:36:25] <WickedWicky> or better yet [17:36:31] <madhatter> /dev/sr0 -> dsk/c1t1d0s2 [17:36:34] <WickedWicky> try mount -F hsfs /dev/sr0 [17:36:53] <WickedWicky> cool, so sr0 points to a non (anymore) existing device [17:37:10] <madhatter> WickedWicky: THis might be sr1 now? [17:37:20] <WickedWicky> could be [17:37:28] <madhatter> As I moved the device from one port to the other [17:37:49] <WickedWicky> give it a try :) [17:38:00] <madhatter> No such device [17:38:15] <WickedWicky> try what tempt said [17:38:17] *** gavagai_ has joined #opensolaris [17:38:40] <madhatter> Tempt: iostat -En btw shows me my three harddisks, but not the cdrom [17:38:41] * oninoshiko gawks at the VAXBar [17:38:46] <WickedWicky> then [17:38:51] <WickedWicky> your cdrom is not detected [17:38:52] <WickedWicky> w00t [17:38:59] <madhatter> WickedWicky: How come? [17:39:05] *** CIA-26 has quit IRC [17:39:07] <WickedWicky> lose cable? [17:39:20] <WickedWicky> cable pin 1 connected to pin 40 [17:39:21] <WickedWicky> dunno [17:39:28] <madhatter> WickedWicky: It booted [17:39:40] <WickedWicky> from cd? [17:39:55] <WickedWicky> my machine boots perfectly if I yank the IDE cable of my cdrom [17:40:04] <WickedWicky> or power cable for that matter [17:40:23] <madhatter> WickedWicky: I tried to boot the cdr earlier and it worked [17:40:28] <WickedWicky> mmkay [17:40:53] <madhatter> WickedWicky: Is there a manual way to reconfigure that? [17:41:06] <WickedWicky> touch /reconfigure && reboot [17:41:07] <Tempt> beat it senseless [17:41:26] <WickedWicky> Tempt: last time i did that I ended up buying a new case [17:41:45] <WickedWicky> which pissed me more off and a screwdriver ended up in my plastered wall [17:41:46] <WickedWicky> :P [17:41:52] <oninoshiko> but did you use a herring? [17:41:56] *** Shiv_1 has joined #opensolaris [17:41:57] <WickedWicky> no! [17:42:05] <WickedWicky> should i have? [17:42:11] <oninoshiko> yes. [17:42:14] <WickedWicky> shit [17:42:46] <oninoshiko> a tuna will also work in a pinch :p [17:43:31] <oninoshiko> as long as you rememeber you can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish [17:45:58] <WickedWicky> hmmmmm [17:46:02] * WickedWicky takes notes [17:46:10] *** Shiv_1 has quit IRC [17:46:13] <Tempt> err [17:46:29] <WickedWicky> ya? [17:46:30] <Tempt> You can tune a filesystem, but you can't tuna fish [17:47:51] *** Triskelios has joined #opensolaris [17:48:45] *** ballchalk has joined #opensolaris [17:49:00] <madhatter> WickedWicky: Did nothing so far [17:49:36] <madhatter> WickedWicky: I still have symlinks from sr0 and sr1 to dsk/c1t1d0s2, which does not exist [17:49:43] <Tempt> devfsadm -C [17:50:04] <madhatter> Tempt: Did that before, doing it again does nothing [17:50:47] *** oninoshiko has quit IRC [17:50:51] <madhatter> Tempt: It did not [17:50:57] <Stric> add a -v too, so you'll see what's happening (if anything) [17:51:22] <madhatter> Tempt: Shall I remove them manually and reconfigure again? [17:51:32] <Tempt> No. [17:51:37] <madhatter> Stric: Did that already, there was no output [17:52:29] *** ballchalk has quit IRC [17:52:45] *** ballchalk has joined #opensolaris [17:52:51] *** nachox has joined #opensolaris [17:53:19] <madhatter> Tempt: What else can I do? [17:53:30] <Tempt> Ummn, make sure the drive is still working? [17:53:48] <Tempt> I think someone said something about a problem with certain SXCE releases and vanishing CD drives [17:53:50] <nachox> hi people [17:54:20] <madhatter> Tempt: oKay, I will shut down and take a look if the jumper is set correctly [17:54:35] <madhatter> Tempt: Tell me who :) [17:54:37] <stchang> probably a good idea to see if the BIOS actually sees the drive. [17:54:51] <nachox> vanishing cd drives? [17:55:03] <madhatter> stchang: I will check that. But it did boot half an hour ago [17:55:18] <stchang> and what's your OS version? [17:55:40] *** _gavagai has quit IRC [17:55:55] <madhatter> stchang: b72 [17:56:34] <stchang> Did you boot the b72 installation iso to get in install earlier? [17:58:16] <madhatter> stchang: No, I upgraded from b70 to b72 by an iso file. I booted another bootable cdr earlier to take a look if the cdr works in general [17:59:01] <stchang> umm... I think you are hitting CR#6600169. [17:59:36] <madhatter> stchang: Can you show me on the web? [17:59:50] <stchang> http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6600169 [18:01:14] *** onga has joined #opensolaris [18:01:16] <madhatter> stchang: Yay! [18:02:16] <madhatter> stchang: First time I try live upgrade and now that ;) [18:03:08] <madhatter> stchang: I try to boot into snv_70 again [18:03:49] <stchang> madhatter: did you say you just move the drive location too? [18:07:29] <madhatter> stchang: Earlier. I moved the cdr from first port on 2nd controller to 2nd port, to put a hd on first port for live upgrade [18:07:45] <madhatter> stchang: Booted to b70 and there is my cdr again [18:08:50] <madhatter> /dev/dsk/c1t1d0s2 mounted to media [18:09:13] <stchang> that's great :-) well, the fix is going to be in b75 :-) [18:09:54] *** g4lt-sb100 has joined #opensolaris [18:10:02] <madhatter> I chose to boot b70 in grub, do I now only have to exec luactivate without anything else to make it default in grub again? [18:10:23] <madhatter> stchang: I hope it then will be possible to upgrade from 70 to 75 without any issues ;) [18:10:58] <stchang> :-) [18:11:47] *** CIA-26 has joined #opensolaris [18:13:13] <madhatter> stchang: Thanks for the hint. I can give up now and spend the evening on other things .) [18:13:25] *** dlynes_ has joined #opensolaris [18:14:06] <madhatter> Hm, activating snv_70 did not work :( 72 still is default in the grub list [18:15:06] <madhatter> Or do I have to boot into 72, then mount the old root somewhere and luactivate that then? [18:17:18] *** andyshack has quit IRC [18:18:16] *** reflect__ is now known as reflect [18:19:23] <Triskelios> madhatter: if you just want the CD drive to work, copying over the b70 sd driver is a reasonable workaround [18:19:49] *** bengtf_ has quit IRC [18:20:18] <madhatter> Triskelios: Can you give me more details on which driver from where I have to copy? [18:21:29] *** CIA-26 has quit IRC [18:22:30] <Triskelios> problem is actually in ata... so /kernel/drv/{.,amd64}/ata [18:22:45] *** Shiv_1 has joined #opensolaris [18:24:04] <madhatter> Triskelios: If I don't have amd64 I can go for /kernel/drv/ata ? [18:24:11] <madhatter> Triskelios: What about the ata.conf file? [18:24:41] <Triskelios> if you don't use amd64 you can copy the other file, yes [18:24:52] <Triskelios> ata.conf probably hasn't changed between releases [18:25:05] *** g4lt-mordant has quit IRC [18:25:11] <madhatter> Triskelios: Okay, I will give it a try [18:27:57] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris [18:30:52] <madhatter> Triskelios: Yay. I can manually boot the cdr [18:31:00] *** ballchalk has quit IRC [18:31:07] <madhatter> Triskelios: Gnome does not boot it automatically though [18:31:45] *** dlynes_home has quit IRC [18:32:45] *** stchang has quit IRC [18:36:19] <madhatter> Triskelios: Rebooting once more did bring that automount in Gnome back again [18:36:27] <madhatter> Triskelios: Thank you! [18:37:19] <Triskelios> np [18:37:46] *** alanbur has left #opensolaris [18:42:27] *** charlesnw has joined #opensolaris [18:44:06] *** Shiv_1 has quit IRC [18:45:23] <madhatter> Triskelios: Is there a way to add this to the bug description? Even when I log into the website I am not able to add that workaround [18:45:36] *** estibi has joined #opensolaris [18:46:41] *** CIA-26 has joined #opensolaris [18:46:46] <Triskelios> madhatter: it's already listed [18:47:33] <Triskelios> madhatter: http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6600178 [18:47:40] <madhatter> Triskelios: Really? I only see one workaround that says I have to install another drive [18:47:56] <Triskelios> there were two reports [18:48:13] <madhatter> Triskelios: Ah, okay I have been on the other one [18:48:20] <madhatter> Nevermind :) [18:50:24] *** detriment is now known as movement [18:58:23] *** trochej has joined #opensolaris [18:58:43] *** alanbur has joined #opensolaris [19:00:16] <CIA-26> vsakar: 6448374 mkfs creates a geometry based layout in EFI labelled disks, 6542641 Cannot install Solaris on Flash Devices (USB Flash and Compact Flash), 6595253 mkfs prints an unnecessary warning message about nbpi [19:00:34] *** kloczek has quit IRC [19:01:04] *** kloczek has joined #opensolaris [19:03:21] *** trochej has quit IRC [19:07:08] <WickedWicky> what is wrong with people? [19:07:09] <WickedWicky> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/29/comments/ [19:09:36] *** trochej has joined #opensolaris [19:11:32] *** linuxgeek71 has joined #opensolaris [19:12:28] *** michaelk_ has joined #opensolaris [19:12:44] <michaelk_> Hi everyone [19:13:56] <michaelk_> I normally use Linux, but I have to read an ATA harddisk from an Ultra 5 in an other system so I took another x86 system, ran BeleniX on it but I can't find the hard drive devices [19:14:17] <michaelk_> dmesg shows that the harddrive is detected [19:14:43] *** CIA-26 has quit IRC [19:15:04] <Tempt> I think if you're trying to mount a SPARC UFS volume on a peecee you'll be shit outta luck. [19:15:08] <Tempt> endian-issues [19:15:28] <michaelk_> Gawd [19:15:51] <michaelk_> But I managed to _read_ the partitions on a Linux system with the read-only UFS drivers [19:16:12] <delewis> that's because the Linux UFS implemention does transparent endian conversion. [19:16:24] *** _NJGuy has joined #opensolaris [19:16:25] <michaelk_> The thing is, I got an Ultra 5 system, but I don't know the root password, and the firmware is completely locked [19:16:28] <delewis> the Solaris one does not, because frankly, there's never been much need for it. [19:17:06] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC [19:17:16] *** deather_ has joined #opensolaris [19:17:29] <michaelk_> I pulled the password hashes, johntheripper is running 24 hours already... I wish I could just cut the password hashes out of the shadow [19:18:01] <Tempt> use another SPARC machine to fix it? [19:18:11] <delewis> you've invested way more time into that Ultra 5 than it's worth. [19:18:17] <WickedWicky> what do you mean "locked out" [19:18:18] <WickedWicky> HEY! [19:18:20] <WickedWicky> dont say that! [19:19:25] <WickedWicky> or I'll send our prime minister harry potter to you and he'll preach about principes and morals and social acceptance [19:19:29] <WickedWicky> it'll make you sleepy [19:20:11] <michaelk_> WickedWicky, what do you mean? [19:20:30] <WickedWicky> what do you mean with "firmware is totaly locked out" [19:20:35] <WickedWicky> you cant access the OK prompt? [19:20:47] <alanbur> PROM password is probably set? [19:20:48] <michaelk_> WickedWicky, whatever I enter, it asks for a password [19:20:56] <michaelk_> alanbur, that's right [19:22:07] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris [19:22:57] <WickedWicky> dont you have a sparc machine at all you can use? [19:23:16] <alanbur> Usually you need to get a new EEPROM blown to get around it [19:23:41] <Tempt> oh come on [19:23:46] <Tempt> use another machine to do an install [19:23:49] <Tempt> boot it, fix it [19:23:54] <WickedWicky> well [19:24:00] <WickedWicky> Ultra 5 is ATA [19:24:04] <michaelk_> alanbur, this is my first SPARC box, I don't have any extras :-P [19:24:05] <WickedWicky> I was about to say the same [19:24:08] <WickedWicky> yank another disk in [19:24:11] <WickedWicky> install SunOS [19:24:12] <alanbur> http://www.notpurfect.com/main/installsol.htm [19:24:18] <WickedWicky> add the problem disk as slave [19:24:21] <WickedWicky> and you're set I think [19:24:29] <michaelk_> WickedWicky, but how can I boot from CD when I don't have the firmware password? [19:24:48] <WickedWicky> Tempt? [19:24:49] <alanbur> It's nothing to do with the disk, it's a password set at OBP level [19:25:03] <michaelk_> I hope to crack the root password and then use the eeprom utility to reset the firmware [19:25:12] <WickedWicky> yes but he cant boot the operating environment either since he doesnt know the root password [19:25:22] <WickedWicky> if he could he could have done boot -- cdrom [19:25:25] <WickedWicky> reboot -- cdrom [19:25:26] <alanbur> That's the other way [19:25:27] <WickedWicky> whatever [19:25:49] <michaelk_> I'm trapped [19:26:13] <michaelk_> John says: Loaded 2 password hashes with 2 different salts (Traditional DES [128/128 BS SSE2-16]) [19:26:24] <michaelk_> SunOS uses DES to hash passwords? [19:26:38] <_NJGuy> prolly AES [19:26:39] <WickedWicky> that'll take a while then [19:26:57] <Tempt> You can choose your crypto method [19:27:00] <Tempt> default is oldschool DES [19:27:03] <michaelk_> Phew [19:27:07] <Tempt> it *will* take a long time to crack those passwds [19:27:39] <michaelk_> The maximum is 8 characters, right? [19:27:45] <nachox> err what is written in pascal in solaris? [19:28:15] <WickedWicky> but [19:28:30] <WickedWicky> maybe I didnt have enough berenburg yet .. [19:28:37] <WickedWicky> but how did you get the password hash from the disk? [19:29:06] <michaelk_> WickedWicky, I put the ATA HDD in a Linux box and read the shadow with the :-( READ ONLY :-( UFS driver [19:29:08] <Tempt> nachox: pascal? [19:29:26] <WickedWicky> so you can access your data [19:29:38] <Tempt> you could try and go it with a hex editor and see where you end up [19:29:42] <Tempt> risking disaster though. [19:30:01] <WickedWicky> what is it you're trying to achieve, let me put it that way [19:30:07] <nachox> yep, there is a mail in osol-discuss about the lines of code in osol that states there is one file written in pascal [19:30:27] <Tempt> crazy. [19:30:41] <Tempt> Sun hasn't shipped a pascal compiler in a looong time [19:30:42] <michaelk_> WickedWicky, 1) get in to the SunOS system 2) Use eeprom utility to reset firmware 3) install new software and live happily ever after [19:31:17] <WickedWicky> how big is that disk? [19:31:20] <alanbur> that's the analysis took lying, AFAIK. [19:31:34] <alanbur> it also says we have ADA. Read the post carefully... [19:31:46] <Tempt> erk [19:31:53] <Tempt> Subject? [19:32:05] <michaelk_> WickedWicky, just 9 GB, why? [19:32:21] <WickedWicky> lemme confirm something [19:32:28] <WickedWicky> Tempt? pft [19:32:31] <WickedWicky> pvt [19:32:32] <WickedWicky> pls [19:32:33] <WickedWicky> :p [19:32:56] <WickedWicky> so [19:33:09] <WickedWicky> michaelk_, do you ever come near to Amersfoort? [19:33:19] <nachox> Tempt, Re: [osol-discuss] Lines of Code --- Sep 28, 2007 10:20 PM [19:33:59] <michaelk_> WickedWicky, ehmm... Hoorn-Amsterdam daily... [19:34:00] <Tempt> jesus [19:34:01] *** gavagai_ has quit IRC [19:34:08] <Tempt> I want to see that pascal [19:34:13] *** _NJGuy is now known as gavagai_ [19:34:14] *** deather has quit IRC [19:34:17] *** gavagai_ is now known as gavagai__ [19:34:32] <Tempt> even if it doesn't exist. [19:34:42] <WickedWicky> cause if this wont work I could install one of my old ATA disks with Solaris, give it to you, you could boot from it and do your thing [19:35:16] <WickedWicky> 'k heb ook een Ultra5 [19:35:17] <WickedWicky> :) [19:35:51] <michaelk_> WickedWicky, bij de VU stonden ze op het punt me een compleet nieuwe Sun Blade 100 set mee te geven :-) [19:35:59] <WickedWicky> ok [19:36:00] <WickedWicky> well [19:36:02] <Tempt> hmm [19:36:06] <WickedWicky> the offer is time-unlimited [19:36:09] <Tempt> still got a Blade-100 sitting on the floor here [19:36:12] <WickedWicky> you can find me here when you need a disk [19:36:30] <WickedWicky> I can bring it/ship it [19:36:50] <michaelk_> WickedWicky, thanks :-) maybe John will finish cracking by the end of the weekend [19:36:59] <WickedWicky> let me know if it doesnt work okay? [19:37:09] <WickedWicky> we'll work something out [19:37:20] <michaelk_> WickedWicky, I'll find you here, thanks [19:37:28] <WickedWicky> geen probleem :) [19:37:56] <PerterB> I would have thought the hex editor method is fairly low risk if you're careful and should take less than a weekend [19:38:06] *** sahafeez has joined #opensolaris [19:38:38] <michaelk_> PerterB, I just insert spaces where the hash is between the :'s ? [19:38:49] <michaelk_> PerterB, I can't cut anything [19:38:54] <PerterB> no, insert a different hash, one you know the password for [19:39:25] <michaelk_> How do I compute a hash, salts confuse me [19:39:30] <PerterB> s/insert/overwrite with/ :) [19:39:45] *** Disreali has joined #opensolaris [19:39:46] <WickedWicky> to insert he'd need write access [19:40:06] <michaelk_> WickedWicky, I can hex edit on device-file level [19:40:11] <WickedWicky> ah [19:40:13] <PerterB> WickedWicky: yup, I meant hex edit the raw device [19:40:14] <alanbur> perldoc -f crypt? [19:40:41] <michaelk_> This is my hard nut: root:ZEmDDIYdiAEGE:11123:::::: [19:40:44] <PerterB> easiest way to generate a password hash is to use passwd on another account :) [19:40:44] <WickedWicky> you could dd the partition, mount it via loopback and mess with it [19:40:56] <WickedWicky> you're better off fucking up the dd image than the real partition I guess [19:40:57] <e^ipi> michaelk_: why are you using unix_crypt? [19:41:10] <michaelk_> e^ipi, what do you mean? [19:41:24] <e^ipi> your password, it is stored in unix_crypt format [19:41:30] <e^ipi> you can change that to make it more secure [19:41:50] <e^ipi> edit /etc/security/policy.conf [19:41:56] <michaelk_> e^ipi, I just pulled this from the shadow file of a SunOS system [19:41:59] <e^ipi> deprecate __unix__ [19:42:02] <e^ipi> I know you did [19:42:27] <PerterB> e^ipi: uh, he needs to actually get control of the system before he can do that [19:42:37] <michaelk_> Yes... [19:42:39] <e^ipi> oh, not his machine? [19:42:42] <WickedWicky> his machine [19:42:46] <michaelk_> e^ipi, it is now [19:42:55] <WickedWicky> but lost root password + OPB password [19:43:14] <e^ipi> ahh [19:43:16] <michaelk_> Got it from the "Take it or leave it" pile at de Vrije Universiteit [19:43:21] <e^ipi> jack the ripper still around? [19:43:22] <WickedWicky> maybe trying to make it listen to Jantje Smit will work [19:43:30] <michaelk_> e^ipi, John the Ripper? [19:43:35] <WickedWicky> e^ipi: yea [19:43:42] <Tempt> 15379 avenger 7280K 5936K cpu4 10 0 889:51:48 12% john/1 [19:43:43] <e^ipi> IIRC there were two, but yes [19:43:47] <michaelk_> WickedWicky, I don't want to make my sweet Ultra5 vomit it's intestines out [19:43:47] <Tempt> yep, it sure is. [19:43:54] <WickedWicky> haha, goed punt :P [19:44:12] <WickedWicky> Tempt? hax0ring pebbles? [19:44:29] <Tempt> haha [19:44:37] <michaelk_> What is a salted hash, anyway [19:44:45] <WickedWicky> oh wait, 4CPUs.. that's not pebbles [19:44:46] <WickedWicky> :P [19:44:46] <Tempt> trying to get into an old SGI box that I don't have physical access to anymore. [19:44:57] <WickedWicky> (it could be) [19:45:00] <michaelk_> Tempt, same issue :-P [19:45:01] <Tempt> that'd be the fifth CPU. They start at zero. [19:45:07] <WickedWicky> doh [19:45:10] <michaelk_> Dang [19:45:30] <Triskelios> michaelk_: a "salt" is a random value used to produce different hashes for the same string [19:45:56] <michaelk_> Triskelios, but how can you reproduce the hash without knowing the salt? [19:46:35] <PerterB> because the salt is tagged onto the end of the hash too [19:46:44] <michaelk_> PerterB, that explains [19:46:58] <alanbur> Or at the beginning [19:47:07] <PerterB> one of those two, yes :)] [19:47:18] <michaelk_> Is it possible to generate a perfectly fitting hash+salt from a known password on a Linux system, so I can edit it character by character in the shadow file ? [19:47:21] *** kFuQ has quit IRC [19:47:57] *** kFuQ has joined #opensolaris [19:48:10] <Tempt> michaelk_: I don't know if it possible to do anything useful with Linux, so probably not. [19:48:20] <PerterB> maybe, but here's one for free if you want: 2JbLWKVIsXq.k [19:48:25] <PerterB> for "password" [19:48:35] <Tempt> there you go [19:48:38] <Tempt> simple solution [19:48:56] <michaelk_> I just drop it in character by character? [19:49:09] <PerterB> yup [19:49:14] <Tempt> yup [19:49:21] <alanbur> e$ perl -e 'print(crypt("mypassword", "12"), "\n")' [19:49:21] <alanbur> 12.DGzGbemfmc [19:49:32] <Tempt> ffs [19:49:37] <Tempt> just change the root passwd in a zone [19:49:40] <Tempt> copy and paste it [19:49:43] <Tempt> and then change it back [19:49:51] <alanbur> any password, for any user [19:49:56] <alanbur> doesn't matter [19:50:06] <Tempt> root:xXIh.GiKA7Pf.:13785:::::: [19:50:09] <alanbur> nothing special about how root's passwd is handled [19:50:11] <Tempt> sun123 [19:50:42] <WickedWicky> And this is one of the reasons why ppl should use zones! [19:50:43] <WickedWicky> haha [19:50:48] <michaelk_> What's a zone? [19:51:03] <WickedWicky> something you should try when you install your Ultra5 with Solaris 10 :D [19:51:16] <alanbur> Virtual OS partition [19:51:25] <michaelk_> Like LVM ? [19:51:29] <WickedWicky> nee [19:51:38] <WickedWicky> like, a virtual machine, kinda [19:51:41] <michaelk_> Aha [19:51:59] <alanbur> like BSD jails, but with added BSDM ;-) [19:52:07] <michaelk_> Nice [19:52:17] <michaelk_> So... just confirming [19:52:26] <gavagai__> zones are like bsd jails? [19:52:29] <michaelk_> In root:ZEmDDIYdiAEGE:11123::::::, the salt would be "ZE" ? [19:52:51] <PerterB> yes [19:53:07] <michaelk_> Not even hex... [19:53:12] <alanbur> kinda ;-) [19:53:28] <michaelk_> 256x256 [19:53:42] <michaelk_> (theoretically) [19:53:44] * Tempt sleeps [19:53:54] * michaelk_ does man crypt [19:54:07] <PerterB> more like 64x64 [19:54:18] <alanbur> http://uadmin.blogspot.com/2005/06/zones-vs-jail.html [19:54:28] <michaelk_> "...is used to perturb the algorithm in one of 4096 different ways." [19:54:35] <michaelk_> PerterB, nice :-) [19:55:07] <PerterB> hehe, I was spot on [19:55:14] <jamesd> alanbur, of course if you liked that entry, here is one i just created today, about how to find the name of the global zone from inside a zone. http://uadmin.blogspot.com/ [19:57:21] <michaelk_> So, now I take a sector editor, search for the original hash, and drop the new hash in. Any recommendations? [19:57:22] <alanbur> yeah, as I wroke /bin/kstat ;-) [19:57:30] <alanbur> wrote, rather [19:58:05] <jamesd> yeah i'm sure they will limit kstat output or serverly limit it from inside zones. [19:58:19] <alanbur> You should log a bug... [19:58:41] * michaelk_ is feeling adventurous [19:58:46] *** derchris^ has quit IRC [19:58:48] <jamesd> yeah i guess i will. [19:58:55] *** derchris^ has joined #opensolaris [19:59:04] <alanbur> In fact, wait a mo... [20:01:50] <alanbur> 5013741 RFE: virtualize more global zone statistics [20:02:45] *** masta has quit IRC [20:02:59] <alanbur> "it would seem possible to limit things such that only kstats for network interfaces associated with a zone are visible in a zone" [20:04:34] <jamesd> yes.. but its more.. it shouldn't list out the names and types of all the harddrives attached to the system... in fact it gives all the kstat information from every driver loaded on the system... [20:04:46] *** foo3 has joined #opensolaris [20:05:19] <jamesd> including the 15 drives on my box, even though the zone lives on a zfs filesysten that is not visaible from inside the zone. [20:05:46] <alanbur> jamesd: I've added apointer to your blog post to the RFE. [20:05:58] <jamesd> thanks :-) [20:06:03] <alanbur> NP :-) [20:06:19] <jte1> more leak fixing. ;) [20:06:20] *** CIA-26 has joined #opensolaris [20:06:30] *** jte1 is now known as jteo [20:08:33] *** Shiv_1 has joined #opensolaris [20:09:53] *** asyd has quit IRC [20:12:05] *** foo3 has quit IRC [20:12:48] *** Odin- has quit IRC [20:13:06] <michaelk_> Ah... hexedit is searching through the partition [20:13:09] <michaelk_> Wish me luck :-) [20:13:50] * alanbur hears heavy grinding noises from afar... [20:15:09] *** kaiwai has joined #opensolaris [20:17:26] * michaelk_ goes to get coffee [20:18:07] * WickedWicky hands michaelk_ a senseo [20:18:30] <michaelk_> Ewww [20:18:36] <WickedWicky> WAT?! [20:18:55] <michaelk_> Douwe Egberts Roodmerk Snelfiltermaling ! [20:19:08] <WickedWicky> *shrug* [20:19:09] <WickedWicky> lol [20:19:23] <WickedWicky> DE is the real coffee [20:19:42] <michaelk_> WickedWicky, Senseo is fine in the morning, when I need some "coffee" instantly [20:20:05] <WickedWicky> well, filter coffee per definition is bleh [20:21:58] <michaelk_> I FOUND IT [20:22:13] <WickedWicky> cool! [20:22:37] *** oninoshiko has joined #opensolaris [20:22:56] <michaelk_> http://mak.nl.eu.org/itsallthere.png [20:23:33] <WickedWicky> noum aanpassen [20:24:03] <Triskelios> those colours hurt my eyes [20:24:21] <Triskelios> also, you might want to consider a more readable IRC font... [20:25:25] * oninoshiko listens an eats a bowl [20:25:29] <michaelk_> Triskelios, the color scheme is perfect for working with the lights off [20:25:46] <michaelk_> Triskelios, X-chat hurts my eyes, I agree though [20:26:13] *** charlesnw has left #opensolaris [20:27:01] <PerterB> hmm, hexeditting with 28 chars/line obscures the structure somewhat :) [20:27:42] <PerterB> the trick now is to overwrite the password hash and then only write back the sector that you changed [20:28:04] <michaelk_> That's standard with hexedit apparently [20:28:13] <PerterB> sorted, then [20:28:24] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC [20:28:50] <michaelk_> Powerdown... let's try this [20:29:08] <PerterB> then you should be able to mount it read-only again and verify the change [20:29:29] <oninoshiko> excuse my arriving late, but why are you hexediting what appears to be a shadow file? [20:29:51] <michaelk_> oninoshiko, locked out of the system, don't know the root, don't know the firmware pass [20:30:00] <PerterB> oninoshiko: new box with obp security and he doesn't have the obp or root passwords [20:30:03] <oninoshiko> ahh... good reason [20:33:22] <michaelk_> Those Sun keyboards are curious [20:33:50] <Triskelios> michaelk_: they have ctrl in the right place! [20:33:52] *** luc_ has joined #opensolaris [20:34:23] <michaelk_> Only one...? [20:34:28] * oninoshiko nods emphatically with Triskelios [20:34:43] <michaelk_> Stop Again Props Undo Front Copy Open Paste Find Cut... [20:34:58] <michaelk_> What's props, front..>? [20:35:42] <Triskelios> michaelk_: I don't think anyone can remember using those keys... [20:35:45] <g4lt-sb100> front brings forward windows in CDE, and to a lesser extent, JDS [20:35:59] <michaelk_> Ah... [20:36:06] <michaelk_> I already know Stop+A [20:36:09] <michaelk_> BRB [20:36:26] <g4lt-sb100> props is short for properties, again really heavily used in CDE, to a lesser extent in JDS [20:40:51] <oninoshiko> Undo, Copy, Paste, Cut, and Find should be pritty self explanitory, i would think [20:41:00] <alanbur> I use the cut/copy/paste keys *all* the time. [20:41:31] <alanbur> In conjunction with mouse selections, you get 2 text buffers [20:41:51] <alanbur> And you an always rebind the other keys :-) [20:44:21] <michaelk_> Aha [20:44:41] <michaelk_> I started the system... hopefully it will give me a login prompt [20:44:45] <michaelk_> It seems to take a while [20:45:02] *** perlmonk has joined #opensolaris [20:45:05] <michaelk_> I think it is hanging while trying to find some no longer existing net resources [20:46:40] <PerterB> hehe... maybe you can get away with blanking out any nfs mounts in /etc/vfstab with hexedit :) [20:46:59] <michaelk_> It will timeout, right? [20:47:13] * oninoshiko would expect it too [20:47:16] <oninoshiko> to* [20:47:30] <michaelk_> Can I switch VTs in SunOS ? [20:49:00] <g4lt-sb100> no [20:49:08] <jamesd> michaelk_, solaris currently doesn't have vt's..... 2.5.x on x86 may have them... i don't know how they are used [20:49:11] <g4lt-sb100> ther are no VTs in sunos/solaris [20:49:19] <g4lt-sb100> jamesd, it does? [20:49:30] <g4lt-sb100> news to me... [20:49:50] <jamesd> yeah ... back in the day they existed, but no one used them so they removed them later... it may of been 2.4.x not sure. [20:50:06] *** ace___ has quit IRC [20:50:15] <michaelk_> Waaaah! [20:50:28] <michaelk_> Can I use screen, then ? [20:50:32] <jamesd> michaelk_, screen is your friend... [20:50:44] <oninoshiko> ofcourse you can use screen [20:50:50] <jamesd> get it from sunfreeware.com or blastwave. [20:50:53] <jamesd> org [20:51:32] <e^ipi> or just compile it [20:53:44] <g4lt-sb100> or just havee multiple dtterms ;P [20:53:49] <michaelk_> Maybe I'll install Linux (or will you hate me for doing that :-P) [20:54:26] <g4lt-sb100> we won't hatee you for it, we'll pity you, since the U5/10/sb100 is a hard linux install [20:54:33] <oninoshiko> its your box, doesn't affect me any [20:58:59] *** jonkri has joined #opensolaris [21:00:58] *** furrycat has joined #opensolaris [21:01:20] *** gavagai_ has joined #opensolaris [21:02:13] *** CIA-26 has quit IRC [21:02:34] <furrycat> i have CUPS installed for printing, when I go use the CUPS configuration page it asks for a password, yet when I provide it it says it is incorrect. I changed the password using lppasswd, yet still no go. I ;m using solaris 10 u4 with the blastwave CUPs package. [21:02:48] <furrycat> any thoughts? [21:06:21] *** Shiv_1 has quit IRC [21:08:40] *** Odin- has joined #opensolaris [21:08:46] <michaelk_> Gah... the box just sits there... some HDD activity, no login prompt [21:09:33] <e^ipi> nothing on the console either? [21:09:45] <e^ipi> ( ie, null modem to serial ports ) [21:09:56] <michaelk_> I should try that, yes [21:09:57] *** mikefut has joined #opensolaris [21:10:30] <michaelk_> I'll use my Psion terminal hehe [21:11:14] * oninoshiko has had Sparcs go to serial... i have a nice little terminal i keep around for just such occasions [21:11:38] <michaelk_> Ehm [21:11:46] <michaelk_> How do I tell the system to reboot? [21:11:55] <michaelk_> Ctrl+Alt+Del doesn't do it :-P [21:12:12] <michaelk_> I'd like to tell the OS to pack its bags [21:16:18] *** sparvu_ has joined #opensolaris [21:18:57] *** Gropi has quit IRC [21:19:05] *** gavagai__ has quit IRC [21:20:37] <michaelk_> I get nothing on serial [21:21:02] <jamesd> michaelk_, sparc or x86? [21:21:16] <michaelk_> jacobs, sparc [21:21:30] <michaelk_> jamesd, 9600 8N1, right? [21:21:34] <jamesd> michaelk_, send break... [21:21:44] <jamesd> turn off hardware and software flow control. [21:22:02] <michaelk_> jacobs, send break? [21:22:19] <michaelk_> jacobs, I hope my psion will do that [21:22:21] <michaelk_> BRB [21:22:58] *** Odin- has quit IRC [21:24:55] <michaelk_> I see no way... crappy terminal app [21:26:31] <furrycat> michaelk_: that's why servers should have graphics cards [21:27:01] <furrycat> i have two netras sitting under my couch cause i had difficulty Tiping into them [21:27:13] <e^ipi> screen /dev/term/a [21:27:15] <e^ipi> *nod* [21:27:16] <furrycat> they are a project for another day [21:27:34] <jamesd> furrycat, graphic cables dont work very well when the box is 1500 miles away. [21:27:43] <furrycat> jamesd: i understand [21:27:47] <e^ipi> tip pukes itself on my RS6000 too, but screen handles it okay [21:27:52] <furrycat> my box is under my couch [21:28:25] <furrycat> it seems that there are so many options to set with terminals [21:28:30] <trochej> Why did I read "My box is under my crotch"? :) [21:28:50] <WickedWicky> cause it's saturday evening and you should be clubbing [21:29:13] <furrycat> i would love to get those netras working. [21:29:42] <furrycat> i power them on and they hum and the lights go green [21:29:45] <trochej> WickedWicky: Nah, I'm with my wife, the kid is sound asleep. I hate clubs [21:29:46] *** victori_ has quit IRC [21:30:21] <furrycat> i then curl up next to my netras and spoon with them whilst they do their thing [21:31:04] <trochej> I only woder, why then am I online? :) [21:31:28] <furrycat> but alas, one needs to get into the LOM via a seemingly hard to get cable with a program that needs all the right dials and settings to get in [21:31:53] <furrycat> and that cable can be manufactured by oneself if one can read pinouts [21:32:08] <furrycat> and know what wire is what. [21:32:18] <michaelk_> furrycat, spoon with them.... great! [21:32:35] <furrycat> they have a nice SUN logo ontop of them [21:32:54] <furrycat> I tell girls that I bring over that I'm running a datacenter in my apartment [21:33:04] <michaelk_> furrycat, that gets you laid? [21:33:09] <furrycat> no [21:33:11] <furrycat> not yet [21:33:15] *** deather_ is now known as deather [21:33:27] <jteo> yet being the operative word. [21:33:40] <furrycat> but the sun boxes look really cool. The new sun machines are cool too, but they need a HUGE Sun logo on top. [21:34:00] <furrycat> why did SUN stop putting those logos on top? Paint costs too much? [21:34:01] *** sparvu has quit IRC [21:35:29] <e^ipi> furrycat: the Blade1k has a big glowing sun logo on the front of it [21:35:37] <michaelk_> I think the sun logo resembles a sun wheel... not a nice thing to say, I realise [21:36:33] <michaelk_> It certainly has visual power [21:36:35] <furrycat> part of the appeal of using sun equipment is the snob factor. [21:36:56] <furrycat> why people drive lexus or use a MAC [21:37:03] <michaelk_> Mac... ewwww [21:37:24] <furrycat> I need to have a giant SUN logo across the top of my server to let everyone know I'm special [21:37:37] *** WickedWicky has quit IRC [21:37:42] <michaelk_> Waaah [21:37:57] *** Highlander has joined #opensolaris [21:37:58] <furrycat> and I have taste and that my server is no PEECEE [21:38:07] <e^ipi> why does everyone capitalize Mac ? [21:38:38] <furrycat> i can't wait till leopard comes out with dtrace and zfs [21:39:07] <e^ipi> yes, they've sortof made it sOSXlaris [21:39:31] <furrycat> that's smart [21:39:45] <e^ipi> hey, steal from the best... why not [21:39:52] <furrycat> FreeBSD, OS X, and Solaris all have something that linux doesn't [21:39:53] <michaelk_> http://www.brandsoftheworld.com/brands/0000/3264/Sun_Microsystems.eps [21:40:04] <e^ipi> furrycat: a sane license? [21:40:14] <furrycat> dtrace, zfs [21:40:40] <furrycat> now UNIX is being redefined by sun to mean a system with dtrace and zfs [21:40:51] <furrycat> it is setting a standard linux cannot follow. [21:41:06] <e^ipi> AIX is unix, it lacks dtrace & zfs [21:41:17] <furrycat> AIX is being sold out for Linux by IBM [21:41:21] <trochej> They coul. If only they made their promis to deliver SystemTap as they originaly said [21:41:40] <e^ipi> right, that's why they're shoving a lot of development work in to AIX6 [21:41:47] <e^ipi> because they're abandoning it [21:42:07] <furrycat> they are, they should release AIX 6 as opensource [21:42:16] <furrycat> otherwise no one will care [21:42:35] <furrycat> except the 400 or so AIX admins [21:42:38] <e^ipi> noone will care anyways, AIX6 runs on POWER4 or greater, not x86 [21:42:42] <jbk> furrycat: actually more of ibm is giving lip service to linux, but if you have more than a little amount of money to spend, they will try to push you to aix [21:43:06] <furrycat> jbk: i always suspected it was a marketing ploy [21:43:15] <furrycat> those linux freaks will believe anything [21:43:22] <e^ipi> which is dissapointing to me, my only POWER machine is too old [21:43:47] <furrycat> what cool things have you heard about AIX 6? [21:43:57] <furrycat> is it going to be anything close to Solaris 10? [21:44:04] <nachox> the new aix has something like dtrace [21:44:12] <furrycat> copy cats [21:44:26] <jbk> has anyone actually used it? [21:44:31] <Highlander> I think it's fairly safe to assume that a system consuming 1,5GB of RAM and the same amount of swap after booting is far from ideal, right? [21:44:55] *** Highlander is now known as WickedWicky [21:44:58] <jbk> i seem to recall they made a lot of hoopla about 'you can move <their_equivalent_of_zones> between machines online', but when you actually look closer, it was pretty useless [21:45:16] *** CIA-26 has joined #opensolaris [21:45:27] <WickedWicky> jbk: talking about ESX? [21:45:46] <nachox> i'd say it is must have taken a while to boot that box if it consumed 1.5gb of swap [21:45:58] <furrycat> Highlander: i've always wondered who wrote the defaults for solaris 10's install program [21:46:09] <furrycat> what type of world do they live in? [21:46:13] <WickedWicky> booting went fine, but as soon as it starts CDE things go wrong [21:46:18] <e^ipi> heh [21:46:20] <WickedWicky> nah [21:46:27] <e^ipi> this is true in general [21:46:30] <jbk> WickedWicky: no, IBM claimed some sort of zone-like feature in aix6 [21:46:33] <nachox> hehe [21:46:33] <WickedWicky> I think this is due to having compiled the gate with Sun studio 12 [21:46:40] <jbk> but also said they can move zones online between systems [21:47:00] *** Pietro_S has quit IRC [21:47:01] <WickedWicky> I never saw the use for that [21:47:08] <jbk> except when you dug a little deeper, the requirements made it obvious it was not practical to do [21:47:12] *** Pietro_S has joined #opensolaris [21:47:24] <WickedWicky> not in Vmware ESX either, cause at the point you desire such functions its mostly too late to move anything [21:47:29] <jbk> and you could never move it back to the original system [21:47:51] <jbk> so i'm curious what their dtrace-like feature is like [21:48:11] <furrycat> jbk: an exact clone of dtrace if they're smart [21:48:17] *** RainDoctor has joined #opensolaris [21:48:19] <jbk> i.e. is it actually useful once you peel back the covers slightly [21:48:31] <jbk> or if its like systemtap (mostly useless) [21:48:56] <furrycat> i'm not going to learn a bunch of different ways to dtrace a system [21:50:26] *** michaelk_ has quit IRC [21:51:10] <jamesd> furrycat, get brendan gregg's dtrace toolkit its an excellent toolkit... [21:51:37] <jamesd> just learn to use it, people will think you are a god, and solve 99.9% of all sysadmin problems... [21:52:50] <furrycat> jamesd: i already use dtrace for postgresql. I have a bunch of dtrace probes I put in there [21:53:27] <furrycat> in the executor, I can peek inside postgresql transactions [21:53:49] <jamesd> nice [21:53:50] <furrycat> it's amazing stuff [21:54:15] <jteo> intriguing even. [21:55:36] <jamesd> it will be amazing in 5 years when most packages will come with dtrace probes... people will want to use solaris just because of its monitoring and debugging tools. [21:55:52] <furrycat> i'm already stuck on solaris [21:55:58] <furrycat> because of dtrace [21:56:39] <jamesd> zfs rocks as well... [21:56:51] <furrycat> my postgresql data is stored on zfs [21:56:55] * oninoshiko hugs zfs [21:57:05] <furrycat> copy on write ROCKS with postgresql [21:57:29] <jamesd> snapshots, and lvm stuff rocks on zfs. [21:57:44] *** Odin- has joined #opensolaris [21:58:24] *** linuxgeek71 has quit IRC [21:58:34] <furrycat> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/719935 [21:58:36] *** luc_ has quit IRC [21:59:47] <nachox> jamesd, that i doubt, unless of course you expose a better way to use dtrace, dlight might be it though [22:00:37] <furrycat> nachox: read the manual, its worth it [22:01:23] <WickedWicky> can someone past me the pastbin like URL mentioned in the topic? I can't see it [22:01:50] <WickedWicky> oh wait, furrycat uses it [22:01:51] <jamesd> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/ [22:01:54] <WickedWicky> thank you [22:02:59] <pjd-> jamesd: I don't find zfs and dtrace the reasons to use solaris, especially in 5 years:) [22:03:20] *** alanbur has left #opensolaris [22:03:42] <jamesd> then you really haven' [22:03:45] <jamesd> t use them.... [22:04:06] <furrycat> http://www.brendangregg.com/DTrace/sshkeysnoop.d [22:04:19] <furrycat> that's cool [22:04:30] <pjd-> jamesd: Ouh, belive you me, I use them:) My point is that you can use them not only on Solaris. [22:05:22] <jamesd> of course osx has them.. and free bsd, but if you want them stable and more... solaris is your only choice. [22:05:58] <pjd-> jamesd: Please, I work hard to make zfs stable on FreeBSD:) [22:06:17] <furrycat> the point is that we want to exclude linux [22:06:18] <jamesd> pjd-, yes but they are moving targets.... and that is only one 1/2... [22:06:26] <nachox> freebsd has yet to integrate it [22:06:43] <furrycat> if everyone but linux has the goodies, then it makes linux SUCK even more [22:06:58] <pjd-> nachox: You mean dtrace? [22:06:59] <jbk> has netapp planted enough fud to derail it yet? :) [22:07:04] <nachox> yes [22:07:32] <pjd-> jamesd: ZFS works stable on FreeBSD, and is almost future-complete. [22:07:35] * oninoshiko will never understand OS urination contests [22:07:45] *** gavagai_ has quit IRC [22:07:59] <pjd-> nachox: Yeah, it's not in the base yet, but the port is almost finished, afaik. [22:08:24] <trochej> furrycat: We don't want to exclude Linux. It excludes itself [22:08:26] <nachox> iirc there were some problems with the headers [22:08:54] <pjd-> nachox: With licencing exactly, but it is resolved. [22:09:17] <nachox> how did they solve it? [22:09:18] <furrycat> trochej: be honest you guys want to in steve balmer's terminology "Fuckin' bury Linux". [22:09:45] <trochej> furrycat: Me? I use Linux since '97, I wouldn't want to do this. [22:09:56] <trochej> fu But it's Linus and Miller that do all the hard work to alienate other OSes [22:10:04] <pjd-> nachox: CDDLed headers won't be included in GENERIC kernel, instead there is reserved space in the thread structure. [22:11:42] <nachox> pjd-, meaning you wont be able to use dtrace in GENERIC? [22:12:22] <furrycat> why not just kill the CDDL and just use the tried n' true BSD license for opensolaris? [22:12:26] <pjd-> nachox: The reserved space is there to allow to use dtrace with GENERIC. [22:13:00] <oninoshiko> because they dont like the terms of the BSD? [22:13:07] <furrycat> and why not? [22:13:15] *** sioraiocht has joined #opensolaris [22:13:16] <jbk> furrycat: i don't believe the bsd license deals with patents [22:13:24] <jbk> or ensure source availability [22:13:25] <pjd-> nachox: It was really a cosmetic issue - instead of nicely named fields in the structure we now have char dtrace_specific_data[XXX]. [22:14:07] *** kaiwai_ has joined #opensolaris [22:14:34] <pjd-> jbk: Ensuring source availability at file level sounds like an easy thing to work-around. [22:14:48] <pjd-> (but I don't really know what CDDL implications are) [22:15:11] <jbk> it stil wouldn't be the bsd license then though [22:15:13] <oninoshiko> there are plenty of reasons to not like the BSD license. as many as there are reasons to not like the GPL, or even the CDDL. you'd have to ask sun why they choose what they choose... or, more likely their attornies [22:15:37] <pjd-> jbk: And in EU there are no software patents. [22:16:01] <furrycat> the EU doesn't matter [22:16:01] <jbk> that doesn't help elsewhere [22:16:16] <nachox> pjd-, cool, and what happened with zfs? :) [22:16:32] <pjd-> nachox: ZFS is in the tree for a long time now. [22:16:58] <furrycat> BSD is cool because we don't have that system V nonsense [22:17:24] <pjd-> nachox: http://people.freebsd.org/~pjd/misc/zfs/ [22:17:27] <pjd-> nachox: http://youtube.com/results?search_query=freebsd+zfs&search=Search [22:18:12] <jbk> so you don't have sysv ipc? [22:18:13] <furrycat> pjd: stop bragging that you are a BSD hacker! [22:18:22] <oninoshiko> "sysV" nonsense? [22:18:41] <pjd-> BTW, have you seen my t-shirt?:) [22:18:42] <pjd-> http://be.unnameden.com/zfs.shirt/1.shirt.png [22:19:31] <pjd-> jbk: Of course we have. That's why postgresql can run just fine on FreeBSD. [22:19:50] *** sioraiocht has quit IRC [22:19:51] *** sioraiocht_ has joined #opensolaris [22:20:16] <furrycat> oninoshiko: system V nonsense where you have symlinks pointing this and that [22:20:18] <jbk> i know :) i was just making a small point about 'no sysv nonsense' [22:20:56] <furrycat> i'm surprised the shutdown and startup scripts don't get tangled in a huge bundle of string [22:21:42] *** kaiwai has quit IRC [22:21:44] <WickedWicky> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/719938 [22:22:05] <WickedWicky> does this look like normal behaviour for a machine doing nothing else at themoment than an onnv-gate compile? [22:23:06] <oninoshiko> you mean the Sys V booting? we generally dont do that either [22:24:02] <furrycat> oninoshiko: ah the binary way [22:24:54] <nachox> pjd-, you're sick, what is jonnhy bravo doing in a presentation about zfs?! [22:25:02] <WickedWicky> OH MAMA [22:25:31] *** ashner has quit IRC [22:25:57] <oninoshiko> wow... panera blocks youtube [22:26:33] <oninoshiko> soo bizzare [22:26:44] <hali> whats panera? [22:27:11] <oninoshiko> a restaurant/bakery place [22:27:22] <oninoshiko> that has wifi [22:27:29] <oninoshiko> that i happen to be sitting in [22:27:53] *** pareidolia has joined #opensolaris [22:27:56] <oninoshiko> (the restaurant, not the wifi... although i suppose i am sitting in the wifi too) [22:27:57] <pareidolia> WickedWicky, I did it! [22:28:05] <WickedWicky> cool! [22:28:06] <WickedWicky> :D :D [22:28:22] <trochej> pareidolia: You mean the sex? [22:28:33] <pareidolia> WickedWicky, I reset the security mode in the firmware :-P [22:28:35] <WickedWicky> I hope he wont tell me that [22:28:44] <WickedWicky> ah nice, so now you can boot from cd [22:29:10] <pareidolia> WickedWicky, yeah, one more thing to fix: booting from a Gentoo CD gives a "Invalid Instruction" error [22:29:53] <madhatter> Is there a logfile for services started by svcadm? I am trying to start ssh, but it does not go online wihtout any error message [22:30:10] <trochej> svcs -xv [22:30:19] <jbk> /var/svc/log i believe [22:30:54] <madhatter> Thanks [22:33:04] <trochej> Virtual machines are nice and one of niceties is that if you brick your server, you still can get console via Managing interface [22:33:07] <trochej> :) [22:33:44] <e^ipi> sweet, my beans came [22:34:06] * oninoshiko holds up a brick "wanna test that theory?" >;p [22:35:07] <madhatter> Hm, what does that mean when sysidtool is offline because start method is running? System's to slow? [22:36:26] <jbk> it means it's trying to run [22:36:27] <jbk> is this a zone? [22:36:51] <madhatter> jbk: Yes [22:37:04] <jbk> have you connected to the console? [22:37:17] <jbk> it's probably wanting you to walk thorugh sysidcfg [22:37:45] <madhatter> jbk: I just installed that zone and did a zlogin to it [22:38:10] <trochej> oninoshiko: Only with a brick that I provide :) [22:38:23] * trochej hands a foam brick [22:38:26] <jbk> zlogin -C [22:38:39] *** RainDoctor has quit IRC [22:40:15] <oninoshiko> well thats no fun :p [22:43:48] <furrycat> can I zlogin from dtlogin? [22:43:56] <furrycat> into a zone? [22:45:08] <e^ipi> there's a "connect to server" option in there somewhere [22:47:02] *** dunc has quit IRC [22:48:57] <pareidolia> Gah... I have an optical mouse from 1991 that needs a special mousepad [22:49:10] <e^ipi> i got one of those [22:49:20] <oninoshiko> i used to have one of those [22:49:32] <e^ipi> there's a postscript out there that if you print on a decent printer ( read: laser) and laminate, works [22:49:38] *** dunc has joined #opensolaris [22:49:41] <e^ipi> not wonderfully, but it works [22:49:58] <madhatter> jbk: Thanks. sshd seems to be running, now I only have to figure out why I can't log into it [22:50:19] <e^ipi> madhatter: did you accidently kick the network cable out? I did that the other day [22:50:38] <pareidolia> oninoshiko, does it light up at the bottom? [22:51:10] <e^ipi> pareidolia: I assumed he meant the type4 ( 4? ) optical mice [22:51:20] <madhatter> e^ipi: No, it's WLAN. I can ping it and all, but when I type the password it does not accept it. Although I logged into the zone locally with the sam [22:51:23] <pareidolia> Mine clicks, but it does not light up. I have a type5 [22:51:26] <madhatter> *same [22:52:12] <pareidolia> Is mine broken? [22:52:17] *** sahafeez has quit IRC [22:52:35] *** charlesnw has joined #opensolaris [22:52:35] <oninoshiko> i dont recall... i didnt spend alot of time looking at the lights on it [22:52:58] <oninoshiko> and it is amongst the hardware ive lost over the years [22:53:14] *** Fish- has joined #opensolaris [22:54:03] <oninoshiko> the grid was comming off the pads anyway [22:54:04] <trochej> madhatter: Any traces in logs as to why the password is rejected? [22:54:32] *** RainDoctor has joined #opensolaris [22:54:45] <oninoshiko> madhatter: are you trying to use root? that's disabled by default. [22:54:52] <pjd-> I can't start iscsitgtd, the problem seems to be related to /etc/iscsi/target_config.xml file (it's empty). [22:54:57] <pareidolia> It says here that it needs a special mousepad: http://www.memoryxsun.com/3701398.html [22:55:05] <pjd-> Can someone show me his target_config.xml? [22:55:08] <trochej> root? [22:55:13] <trochej> I thought no one triees that anymore [22:55:30] <oninoshiko> ofcourse, because its disabled by default :p [22:55:52] <e^ipi> screw root... (heh...) [22:56:06] <oninoshiko> besides, there are alot of linux boxes that leave it open -.- [22:56:09] <e^ipi> root is just a pile of RBAC priveledges concentrated at one single point of failure [22:56:23] <e^ipi> the account should be removed [22:56:32] [22:56:53] <e^ipi> or at least relegated to a simple "assign privileges" role [22:57:00] <madhatter> oninoshiko: :) [22:57:06] <trochej> oninoshiko: If admins of these boxes would run Solairs, they wuild leave the vylnerable telnetd open [22:57:19] [22:57:21] <trochej> os [22:57:28] <madhatter> oninoshiko: Thank you. Never tried to ssh to root in the global zone as I have an account there of course [22:58:15] <furrycat> I once installed trusted solaris and was locked out of my machine completely [22:58:22] <e^ipi> heh [22:58:29] <furrycat> i didn't even know what I did wrong [22:58:30] <oninoshiko> you machine didnt trust you [22:58:31] <e^ipi> RBAC isn't trusted solaris [22:58:36] <oninoshiko> your* [22:58:40] *** sioraiocht_ has quit IRC [22:58:43] <e^ipi> trusted solaris makes use of rbac, but rbac is it's own thing [22:58:48] <oninoshiko> smart machine :p [22:58:53] <trochej> :) [22:59:08] <trochej> furrycat: You read documentation prior to installing it, right? :) [22:59:09] <furrycat> why not use chroot [22:59:19] <furrycat> trochej: no, I just rushed to install it [22:59:27] <furrycat> i wanted all those cool labels [22:59:37] <furrycat> on my JDS screen [22:59:37] <e^ipi> chroot is something entirely different [22:59:46] <trochej> furrycat: Cool lables are at WallMarts on chockolate shelves [23:00:02] <e^ipi> "chocolate flavoured confectionary" [23:00:03] <furrycat> trochej: I use solaris to be an elitist. [23:00:05] <oninoshiko> trochej: i cant even parse that sentance [23:00:16] [23:00:36] * oninoshiko uses solaris to solve problems [23:00:37] <furrycat> trochej: that's why I brought it up. sense of humor not to good i guess [23:01:05] <e^ipi> they can't call it chocolate unless it's got cocoa butter in it [23:01:12] <e^ipi> and cheap chocolate tends to use vegetable oils [23:01:13] <furrycat> oninoshiko: solaris is a toy for me to entertain me [23:01:16] [23:01:45] <furrycat> i like to pretend I'm a big shot system adminstrator [23:01:52] *** Fish has quit IRC [23:02:10] <e^ipi> furrycat: and as you become more comfortable in it, the chances of you actually becoming a bigshot sysad. increase [23:02:18] <e^ipi> because solaris admins are in short supply [23:02:29] <e^ipi> (because everyone monkeys with windows & linux) [23:02:56] <oninoshiko> i think billy joel has a song about that [23:03:25] <e^ipi> has a song about being a solaris sysadmin? [23:03:34] <oninoshiko> no, about being a bigshot :p [23:04:35] <oninoshiko> AFK a min, i think the pizza ovan is on now [23:04:43] *** vmlemon has quit IRC [23:04:47] <e^ipi> what the hell? [23:05:16] <e^ipi> is someone on my network screwing with things or something? it seems everyone on IRC collectively decided to forget how to spell [23:05:25] <e^ipi> or type [23:05:36] <e^ipi> or speak in grammatically correct english sentences [23:06:50] <trochej> e^ipi: English is my third language. I reserve myself a right to make an ass of myself spelling and writing incorrect English when under a stress or simply tired [23:06:59] <e^ipi> fair enough [23:07:52] <bda> "bigshot sysadmin". Fo' real, pimpin' hos, spendin' cheese. [23:08:01] <bda> Or perhaps the CEO style "bigshot sysadmin". [23:08:06] <WickedWicky> do you wear a purple hat with a yellow feather? [23:08:08] * bda adjusts tie. [23:09:23] <trochej> WickedWicky: I know a guy that wears red shiny leather shoes [23:09:44] <WickedWicky> please tell me they're prada [23:09:47] <e^ipi> platforms with goldfish in them [23:09:49] <e^ipi> *nod* [23:10:40] <bda> Is that for when you get tired of looking at the stripper? [23:10:42] *** deedaw has quit IRC [23:10:44] <bda> "Oh, look, fishies." [23:10:47] [23:10:50] * oninoshiko wears steel toed boots [23:11:09] <trochej> oninoshiko: I used to, in the military [23:11:19] <furrycat> why does jonathan have a pony tail? [23:11:28] <oninoshiko> because he likes it? [23:11:42] <oninoshiko> it keeps his hair out of his face? [23:11:45] * trochej can only think of some stupid anal sex explanations [23:12:22] <oninoshiko> apperently they lost the pizza dough -.- [23:12:49] <oninoshiko> im a little distraught at this, but also a bit amused [23:12:50] <bda> Cursed vagaries of fate! [23:14:00] *** CIA-26 has quit IRC [23:14:31] <oninoshiko> me: "i want a 3 cheese pizza" teller: "let me see if we are making them yet" walks around trying to find info about whats going on, and looking somewhat lost "we can't find the dough" [23:16:52] <WickedWicky> .. [23:16:53] <bda> Where are you? [23:17:00] <WickedWicky> wait [23:17:04] <oninoshiko> panera bread [23:17:26] <WickedWicky> that's like, somebody calling me, asking me for an account in the radius server.. and answer with "we cant find the radius server" [23:17:42] <WickedWicky> it's their core bussiness, how cant they find their dough? [23:17:50] <WickedWicky> kidnapped like House's guitar? [23:18:05] <oninoshiko> i have no idea, thats why is amusing [23:18:53] *** kaiwai__ has joined #opensolaris [23:19:35] <oninoshiko> but i did kinda had my heart set on a pizza :( [23:19:43] <WickedWicky> sue them for mental trauma [23:19:48] <oninoshiko> LOL [23:20:14] <oninoshiko> i wonder if the place i used to get calzones at is still around... [23:25:49] <pareidolia> Can anyone tell me if Sun offers updates for OpenBoot firmware for download? [23:27:08] *** jonkri has quit IRC [23:27:45] *** kaiwai_ has quit IRC [23:27:46] <e^ipi> Tempt: roasting coffee doesn't smell that bad [23:28:02] <e^ipi> doesn't smell like coffee, but it's got a bit of roasty campfire smell to it [23:29:14] *** dunc_ has joined #opensolaris [23:34:14] *** dunc__ has joined #opensolaris [23:35:12] *** nachox has quit IRC [23:35:27] <madhatter> e^ipi: Don't speak about roasting coffee. It's bedtime here ;) [23:36:41] *** Jondice has quit IRC [23:44:41] *** furrycat is now known as paulgraham [23:44:56] *** dunc has quit IRC [23:45:06] *** CIA-26 has joined #opensolaris [23:46:44] *** paulgraham is now known as furrycat [23:47:04] <e^ipi> what's roasting got to do with that? [23:47:17] <e^ipi> I'm not drinking any until tomorrow anyways [23:47:51] *** nachox has joined #opensolaris [23:50:22] *** Fish- has quit IRC [23:51:35] *** Ignacio_ has joined #opensolaris [23:51:42] *** dunc_ has quit IRC [23:51:46] *** pareidolia has quit IRC [23:52:35] *** nachox has quit IRC [23:58:22] *** moo_cow has joined #opensolaris