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[00:01:43] <SYS64738> I don't understand, solaris is like windows rebooting is the solution
[00:02:41] <tomww> oh, it's getting more and more like complex windows :-)
[00:02:56] <tomww> but usefull complexity most times
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[00:03:25] <tomww> dangerous comments .-)
[00:03:35] <SYS64738> strange thing it seems that oci8 work, but phpinfo shows me the old version
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[00:04:40] <tomww> hmm. is the php module build with an old oracle-client (-header files) ...
[00:06:13] <SYS64738> not old
[00:07:02] <tomww> you found the old php-version in phpinfo?
[00:07:24] <tomww> have to go to bed now. whish you success.
[00:07:30] <SYS64738> thanks
[00:07:33] <SYS64738> good night
[00:07:36] <tomww> :-)
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[00:10:45] <SYS64738> doens't work
[00:11:04] <SYS64738> let's try with php src from coolstack
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[00:11:18] <hollenjf> my / was full cause I had alot installed in /opt
[00:11:23] <hollenjf> I rebooted and it blew an error when grub tried to load the OS, it said memory full
[00:11:31] <hollenjf> so i went into safe boot, mounted the dev.. i deleted all that I can, and freed up 600MB
[00:11:37] <hollenjf> i rebooted and it still says cant boot, memory full
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[00:47:28] <Triskelios> yay, laptop is pure ZFS now. two seperate pools, though
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[00:50:04] <boyd_> Morning. all
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[00:50:14] <jmcp> hi
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[00:50:38] <boyd> Wow... so, there's Intel based "SunFire" machines now.
[00:50:53] <flyingparchment> boyd: didn't you hear the sun/intel announcement like 6 months ago? :)
[00:51:02] <boyd> I remember when the term actually meant something (reference to the "fire" architecture
[00:52:35] <TwoPiece> anyone know how I can reconfigure my boot sequence to be much shorter? I suspect that if it's loading daemons, I don't need 80% of them... desktop purposes only.
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[00:54:27] <TwoPiece> just to put it in perspective, vista boots in 1/5 of the time that solaris does.
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[00:55:12] <jmcp> TwoPiece: is this your very first boot after installation?
[00:55:21] <TwoPiece> no no, i'm past that.
[00:55:31] <TwoPiece> everythings speedy after boot.
[00:55:41] <jmcp> ok, so you need to look at the output from "svcs -a" and decide which services you don't need
[00:55:54] <jmcp> then run "svcadm disable" for each that you don't need
[00:56:27] <TwoPiece> is that it? then i'll give it a shot.
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[00:56:40] <TwoPiece> thanks. :)
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[00:57:52] <chinasky> hello ,  im trying to install atheros driver for a dlink g520 wireless card. Followed the steps in http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/laptop/wireless/ath/ ....i got this error:  -open of <./SUNWatheros> failed, errno=2.  Thanks
[00:57:53] <flyingparchment> hmm, list price for the xeon stuff is a fair bit more than we get from dell
[00:57:56] <TwoPiece> ... oh, and can you mount ntfs filesystems? (read-only would be all i need)
[00:58:14] <flyingparchment> (as in, more than twice as much ;)
[00:58:14] <boyd> flyingparchment: do you pay list for Dell?
[00:58:33] <flyingparchment> boyd: no, but we don't get a 50% discount either
[00:59:44] <flyingparchment> the dell system is 2U, but our bottleneck is more power than rackspace anyway
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[01:13:08] <SYS64738> I hate php what about you ?
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[01:36:06] <wesolows> someone please make the open source philosophers go away
[01:36:17] <gavagai__> what do u mean
[01:36:50] <wesolows> too many wooly-minded people posting incomprehensible drivel
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[01:37:14] <gavagai__> ah
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[01:40:24] <hollenjf> I cant find my windows partition in /dev/dsk
[01:41:55] <jmcp> that's a blessing, not a curse
[01:43:59] <wesolows> much like your oncologist telling you he couldn't find any cancer in your x-ray
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[01:47:07] <sfire||mouse> except when the cancer gives you mutant powers that you are used to :)
[01:47:40] <hollenjf> well I am trying to convert the win partition to UFS to make extra space
[01:47:51] <wesolows> is it a "logical partition"?
[01:48:15] <wesolows> Also, does it show up in fdisk(1M)?
[01:48:28] <wesolows> and if you want extra space, I recommend ZFS
[01:48:57] <wesolows> at this point, all general-purpose non-root filesystems should be ZFS.  Most users should not be creating new non-root UFS filesystems.
[01:49:39] <hollenjf> how do I use fdisk?
[01:49:39] <wesolows> fdisk /dev/rdsk/cXtXdX or /dev/rdsk/cXdX as appropriate
[01:49:39] <wesolows> man fdisk
[01:49:39] <hollenjf> well
[01:49:39] <hollenjf> what device do I point to
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[01:49:48] <wesolows> You can see a list of all known disks using format(1M)
[01:50:09] <wesolows> How many physical disks are attached to your host?
[01:50:12] <hollenjf> it always says cant stat device
[01:50:15] <hollenjf> 1
[01:50:23] <e^ipi-school> okay, wtf... did I somehow get roped in to doing a talk @ the OSDS ?
[01:50:26] <wesolows> Ok, so format(1M) should offer you only one choice.
[01:50:43] <e^ipi-school> i'm not good with people, this much should be obvious... what were they thinking?
[01:50:56] <wesolows> e^ipi-school: No one can make you give a talk if you don't want to.
[01:50:57] <elektronkind> urp
[01:51:07] <hollenjf> format tells me c0d0 is my disk
[01:51:11] <hollenjf> fdisk says it isnt
[01:51:18] <wesolows> e^ipi-school: Considering the apparent quality of talks, I'm not sure I'd want to be associated with it anyway.
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[01:51:37] <wesolows> hollenjf: Try fdisk /dev/rdsk/c0d0p0
[01:51:48] <elektronkind> wow, I just mention "format(1M)" in a email and I pop on here and the same string is here. We all must be in synch.
[01:51:58] <alanc> I thought it was supposed to be much more planning meeting than prepared presentations anyway - a summit, not a conference
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[01:52:11] <hollenjf> wes: wow.. it actually worked.. thought I already tryed that
[01:52:30] <wesolows> alanc: Unclear; as far as I'm concerned it's a Sun conference for Sun developers or whomever Sun wants to invite.  It's not an OpenSolaris anything.
[01:52:36] <e^ipi-school> i put my name against something that I think is important to talk about on the wiki, and somehow it translates over to me running one of the rooms on sunday
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[01:54:01] <alanc> wesolows: it's at least a meeting of people working on an OpenSolaris Project (in theory)
[01:54:03] <wesolows> hollenjf: ok...so now you should be able to do something with p2 or whatever partition windows is in.  This is still a pretty inferior answer, since you presumably have Solaris in p1 or p2 or whatever and you'd really like to have just a single SOLARIS2 partition, but it's better than nothing.
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[01:54:43] <hollenjf> well I would like to use my windows partiton for solaris and use it for a /opt mountpoint
[01:55:43] <wesolows> alanc: Then they should call it the Sun Indiana Marketing Summit
[01:55:57] <wesolows> Since that's what it really is.
[01:56:26] <wesolows> Calling it the OpenSolaris Developer Summit is nothing more than another transparent attempt by Ian to usurp the name for his Marketing department's pet project.
[01:56:44] <wesolows> And he of course has oodles of Sun's money to spend in doing it.
[01:56:51] <e^ipi-school> meh, from the looks of it I'll be able to jump around rooms avoiding indiana talk
[01:56:58] <dlg> wesolows: you sound so bitter
[01:57:08] <wesolows> dlg: I'm even more bitter in person.
[01:57:17] <nrubsig> uh-oh
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[01:57:30] <dlg> wesolows: i love it :)
[01:57:42] <nrubsig> wesolows: are you attending to the conference ?
[01:57:49] <wesolows> nrubsig: Absolutely not.
[01:57:56] <nrubsig> bummer ;-(
[01:58:06] <hollenjf> in fdisk what is zfs... Solaris2?
[01:58:09] <jmcp> nrubsig: wesolows has real work to do :)
[01:58:16] <jmcp> hollenjf: zfs is a filesystem type
[01:58:21] <jmcp> Solaris2 is a DOS partition type
[01:58:26] <wesolows> hollenjf: I'm unsure what creating multiple SOLARIS2 partitions will do.
[01:58:27] <jmcp> totally different universes
[01:58:29] <nrubsig> wesolows: well, it may have been a cool picture... wesolows spitting acid in Ian's direction...
[01:58:43] <hollenjf> so I should use 2) UNIX
[01:58:51] <jmcp> wesolows: I don't think it's currently supported to have >1 Solaris2 partition on a disk
[01:58:59] <wesolows> nrubsig: Getting to Santa Cruz is hard, and I have better thing to do with my life than join an open source intellectual circle jerk.
[01:59:08] <wesolows> jmcp: That was my fear as well.
[01:59:33] <wesolows> hollenjf: I'm not sure whether it matters - you might just try leaving it as DOS and letting ZFS try to put its own label on it.
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[01:59:49] <flyingparchment> could you just put a ufs filesystem on /dev/dsk/c0t0d0pwhatever?
[01:59:52] <flyingparchment> (or zfs or whatever)
[02:00:14] <wesolows> hollenjf: The important thing is to know which partition number it is - the first one is p1, the second is p2, and so on.  You'll need that to feed to ZFS.  The partition type and filesystem type are basically unrelated; only Microsoft correlates those.
[02:00:33] <hollenjf> well the bottom line, is what partition is Windows?
[02:00:42] <jmcp> flyingparchment: don't put a Solaris filesystem on a cXtYdZpN
[02:00:49] <flyingparchment> jmcp: how come?
[02:01:16] <jmcp> flyingparchment: because we create vtocs within that "partition"
[02:01:32] <flyingparchment> what does?
[02:01:43] <jmcp> what does what?
[02:01:48] <flyingparchment> what creates vtocs?
[02:02:03] <jmcp>  /usr/sbin/format
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[02:02:13] <flyingparchment> so just don't slice the partition? :)
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[02:02:32] <jmcp> flyingparchment: if you want to use it with Solaris, then you have to
[02:02:50] <flyingparchment> why?
[02:03:01] <jmcp> because that's how it was designed to work, years+years ago
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[02:03:19] <jmcp> what did you want, to operate "just like linux" ?
[02:03:30] <flyingparchment> ...
[02:03:41] <flyingparchment> no, he already has a solaris2 partition, i'm wondering if there's a way around that problem
[02:03:58] <jmcp> I was disconnected for a few minutes, missed out on the problem definition
[02:04:26] <jmcp> by making you create a vtoc within a DOS-style primary partition, the theory is that you make it easier to skills learnt on sparc to transfer to x86/x64 ... and vice versa
[02:04:43] <flyingparchment> yeah, i get that
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[02:05:06] <flyingparchment> i'm just thinking if, if you already have a solaris2 partition and want to convert your windows partition to ufs (that's what he wants, AIUI), if you could just newfs the p1 device
[02:05:15] <jmcp> oh,right
[02:05:19] <jmcp> yeah, it's worth a try
[02:05:29] <attunix> Hi. I just installed OpenSolaris in the Q emulator. I only seem to have command line. What command do I use to start the Java Desktop System?
[02:05:38] <flyingparchment> i guess the problem is whether ufs can find the size and other characteristics without a vtoc
[02:05:39] <jmcp> *no* idea how you'd address it from within Solaris though, except to use the pN
[02:05:53] <jmcp> attunix: "svcadm enable cde-login" should work
[02:06:00] <e^ipi-school> okie, wandering back home
[02:06:12] <attunix> jmcp:  thanks. This is my first time with any Sun product. I'm excited :)
[02:06:14] <attunix> thanks
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[02:06:25] <hollenjf> dont troll me if I ask this question, but is there a GUI partition tool?
[02:06:39] <flyingparchment> hollenjf: i think smc has one, but smc is pretty crap
[02:06:40] <jmcp> hollenjf: (a) yes, (b) not specifically for Solaris
[02:06:49] <SYS64738> I have this little troube: ldd: libnnz10.so: cannot open file: No such file or directory what's the right way to set the LD_LIBRARY_PATH env ?
[02:06:54] * jmcp pedants with open/closed questions
[02:06:56] <attunix> jmcp: sorry; accidentally closed the IRC window. Can you tell me the command again?
[02:07:04] <jmcp> attunix: "svcadm enable cde-login"
[02:07:11] <attunix> thanks
[02:07:15] <jmcp> yw
[02:07:31] <attunix> yw?
[02:07:39] <jmcp> you're welcome
[02:07:57] <attunix> oh
[02:08:00] <attunix> thanks :)
[02:08:08] <flyingparchment> i know i'm welcome, but what does yw mean?
[02:08:30] <jmcp> flyingparchment: it's an abbreviation
[02:08:31] <jmcp> duh
[02:09:11] <flyingparchment> ;-D
[02:09:21] <gavagai__> heh
[02:09:37] <wesolows> jmcp: ZFS doesn't create VTOCs
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[02:09:51] <attunix> jmcp: "svcadm: pattern 'cde-login' doesn't match any instances
[02:10:16] <jmcp> wesolows: true, unless you enlarge the definition to include the disklabel
[02:10:22] <jmcp> wesolows: I might just run away now
[02:10:27] <wesolows> Which he wouldn't :-)
[02:10:28] <jmcp> attunix: did you do a full install?
[02:10:35] <wesolows> unless he wants to lose all his data
[02:10:38] <attunix> i think not.
[02:10:47] <jmcp> attunix: "developer" or "end user" perhaps?
[02:10:54] <wesolows> This is actually a textbook example in which the best answer is back up data to tape, reinstall
[02:10:56] <attunix> end user :
[02:10:58] <attunix> :P
[02:11:11] <jmcp> attunix: damn. that means you've essentially got nothing useful :(
[02:11:18] <alanc> end user should still have a desktop
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[02:11:26] <wesolows> always install the full distribution unless you have a space constraint
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[02:11:32] <attunix> jmcp: It came preinstalled
[02:11:35] <jmcp> attunix: I agree with wesolows
[02:11:44] <attunix> How can I install CDE/java desktop system?
[02:11:47] <jmcp> attunix: a  pre-installed image for qemu?
[02:11:54] <wesolows> if you have a space constraint, go buy a disk made in the last 8 years and start over
[02:11:56] <attunix> yes
[02:12:14] <alanc> what was it preinstalled with?
[02:12:20] <attunix> I don't know.
[02:12:22] <jmcp> attunix: you need about 8Gb (not incl swap) to do a full install of everything
[02:12:25] <attunix> I just got it.
[02:12:40] <attunix> How can I install CDE?
[02:12:45] <alanc> if someone's redistributing a pre-install image, it's probably Belenix or Nexenta, not Solaris Express, so won't have CDE
[02:12:56] <attunix> oh
[02:13:04] <attunix> How do I start Belenix?
[02:13:08] <alanc> if it's belenix, it should have gnome
[02:13:09] <attunix> or Nexenta?
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[02:13:17] <alanc> Belenix & Nexenta are distros
[02:13:22] <attunix> oh
[02:13:27] <attunix> I don't know anything about this install
[02:13:28] <alanc> I've never used either though
[02:13:34] <attunix> How do I install the Java desktop system?
[02:13:44] <wesolows> You install Solaris.
[02:13:53] <wesolows> You can install GNOME on other distributions, but it's not JDS.
[02:13:58] <attunix> all I know is it's openSolaris
[02:14:01] <wesolows> Same thing, different name.  Welcome to trademark law.
[02:14:06] <alanc> GNOME on Solaris won't be JDS much longer either
[02:14:24] <wesolows> Oh, are they adding java code into it and renaming it GNOME?
[02:14:34] <attunix> so how do i install JDS or CDE/
[02:14:37] <wesolows> I figure that's only fair since it's been called JDS yet had no java for years now.
[02:14:38] <alanc> they've already started removing the Java trademarks in the past few builds
[02:14:39] <attunix> *?
[02:14:53] <wesolows> attunix: First try to figure out what distribution you have.  Is there an /etc/release?
[02:15:12] <attunix> "Not a directory"
[02:15:17] <wesolows> cat /etc/release
[02:15:18] <wesolows> a file
[02:15:22] <attunix> oh
[02:15:27] <attunix> :P
[02:15:44] <attunix> Solaris 10 3/05 s10_74L2a X86
[02:15:51] <wesolows> wow, S10 FCS
[02:15:52] <attunix> Copyright 2005
[02:15:58] <attunix> Assembled 22 January 2005
[02:16:11] <alanc> JDS had a Java Media Player for a bit, but that went away a while ago
[02:16:12] <attunix> so....
[02:16:18] <attunix> can I install JDS?
[02:16:22] <wesolows> did you dig that up from next to an icthyosaur?
[02:16:23] <attunix> or CDE?
[02:16:26] <attunix> if so how?
[02:16:32] <alanc> so it should have CDE & JDS already, just ancient versions
[02:16:39] <attunix> wesolows: i just downloaded from free.oszoo.org
[02:16:40] <wesolows> Yep, might already be there.
[02:16:41] <alanc> try /usr/dt/bin/dtenable -e
[02:16:46] <attunix> ok
[02:17:06] <attunix> No such file or directory.
[02:17:12] <alanc> sorry,  /usr/dt/bin/dtconfig -e
[02:17:24] <attunix> ok
[02:17:25] <alanc> (I was thinking "-e" for enable, and typed the wrong thing)
[02:17:46] <attunix> it says "desktop auto-start enabled"
[02:18:12] <attunix> now what/
[02:18:16] <attunix> *?
[02:18:21] <alanc> easiest is reboot
[02:18:26] <attunix> ok
[02:19:05] <attunix> ooh it's version 5.10
[02:19:14] <alanc> yep, that's ancient, and not really OpenSolaris
[02:19:22] <alanc> welcome to 2004
[02:19:30] <attunix> lol
[02:19:38] <attunix> it's just a toy :P
[02:20:28] <attunix> ok. I just went through console login
[02:20:29] <Gman> alanc, now has java gnome bindings ;)
[02:20:32] <attunix> now how do I start the GUI?
[02:21:06] <alanc> hmm, it should have started the gui for you - at least it would have if it was a normal install - never used qemu before
[02:21:20] <attunix> any other commands?
[02:21:37] <alanc> /etc/init.d/dtlogin start
[02:21:42] <attunix> ok
[02:22:30] <attunix> fatal: libXau.so.6: open failed: no such file or directory 380 killed
[02:23:11] <wesolows> you've gone to a hurty place
[02:23:18] <attunix> :P
[02:23:24] <attunix> I'll just give it up
[02:23:29] <alanc> sounds like a busted OS image
[02:23:44] <attunix> now what's the starter kit?
[02:24:24] <attunix> I don't really get it.
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[02:25:50] <attunix> hello?
[02:26:29] <dlg> i heard a rumour that smpatch is being deprecated
[02:26:36] <dlg> is this true? did i hear wrong?
[02:26:43] <palowoda> Sure why not.
[02:26:44] <flyingparchment> dlg: oh please let it be true
[02:26:57] <alanc> isn't the Update Connection replacing it?
[02:26:59] <flyingparchment> dlg: but maybe you're thinking of the older patchpro, that also had an smpatch command, and was eol'd recently?
[02:27:11] <dlg> flyingparchment: you tell me
[02:27:16] <dlg> my meory is fuzzy
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[02:27:34] <flyingparchment> alanc: i thought (current) smpatch _was_ update connection
[02:27:35] <palowoda> None of it works on opensolaris either.
[02:28:19] <alanc> flyingparchment: too many patch solutions, I've lost track of which is which
[02:28:25] <flyingparchment> yeah
[02:28:32] <alanc> and since I use Nevada everywhere, use none of them
[02:28:57] <dlg> which one shoulud i be using on sol 9?
[02:29:20] <flyingparchment> dlg: go to sunsolve.sun.com, there's a link to a document that says
[02:29:36] <wesolows> dlg: The one that upgrades to S11
[02:29:47] <dlg> wesolows: dont be mean
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[02:29:57] <wesolows> The one that upgrades to S10?
[02:30:05] * wesolows is a big meanie
[02:30:06] <dlg> thats going to happen in about 2 months
[02:30:40] <attunix> Does the Starter Kit come with a Live CD?
[02:31:36] <stevel> yes
[02:31:39] <stevel> disc 1 has 3 livecds
[02:31:49] <attunix> With JDS? :)
[02:32:11] <stevel> no. there are 3 LiveCDs on it, Belenix (which has xfce & kde), Nexenta (which has GNOME), and Schillix
[02:32:18] <attunix> ok
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[02:32:24] <SYS64738> I would like to watch dust to glory but it's late
[02:32:25] <flyingparchment> isn't schillix dead?  i thought joerg stopped maintaining it
[02:32:28] <SYS64738> baja 1000 rules
[02:32:36] <stevel> flyingparchment: probably
[02:32:50] <wesolows> "stopped maintaining" doesn't mean it stopped working
[02:33:03] <wesolows> why do people think that code rots over time?
[02:33:12] <flyingparchment> no, but shipping unmaintained and outdated software probably isn't very useful either
[02:33:24] <e^ipi> wesolows: because it does, depending on the medium on which it's stored
[02:33:31] <stevel> wesolows: not so much that it rots, but certainly it can grow stale.
[02:33:37] <wesolows> unmaintained, yes; if there's no way to fix a bug that you find, that's bad
[02:33:47] <wesolows> outdated, no; it should work as well as it did the day it was cut
[02:33:52] <stevel> an unmaintained distribution means bugs that aren't being brought back downstream
[02:34:00] <stevel> unless an exploit has come out since the day it was cut
[02:34:19] <wesolows> e^ipi: That's bit rot, not software rot.  Assume that you have a faithful copy of the original bits.
[02:34:46] <jmcp> stevel: you should know better than to suggest that Joerg's code has exploits ....
[02:34:47] <jmcp> :-)
[02:34:52] <wesolows> In other words, a faithful copy of SunOS 4.1 should work as well today as it did in the 1980s.
[02:34:55] <stevel> jmcp: it's not all of joerg's code though
[02:34:59] <jmcp> true
[02:35:15] <jmcp> and for that reason it's not posix compliant since at least 6 years
[02:35:21] <wesolows> That it's no longer possible to get bugs in it fixed is bad.  But it didn't stop working just because it got old.
[02:35:23] * jmcp wanders, mentally
[02:35:30] <wesolows> jmcp: lol
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[02:36:48] <alanc> all true schily code has been posix compliant since 1984, even though the first posix version didn't come out until 1990
[02:37:05] <wesolows> does he also have 20 years' experience writing Java?
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[02:37:46] <alanc> I don't think he gets Java - never could get him to understand that Sun is in the Blu-Ray consortium because Blu-Ray movie discs use Java
[02:38:00] * wesolows bets big on HD-DVD
[02:38:07] <richlowe> hah
[02:38:08] <wesolows> I didn't know that
[02:38:11] <wesolows> but now that I do...
[02:38:38] <wesolows> does it take 20 minutes for the DVD player to come up?
[02:38:58] <wesolows> maybe not; maybe each one has 8TB of DRAM in it
[02:39:06] <alanc> if you were on opensolaris-discuss, you'ld know that - of course, you'ld also know how little actual intelligent discussion there is there too...
[02:39:13] <wesolows> yes
[02:39:15] <dlg> hrm
[02:39:21] <dlg> sun connection update manager
[02:39:26] <richlowe> alanc: are you seriously suggesting you learned something from -discuss?
[02:39:28] <dlg> did anyone think about the acronym this makes?
[02:39:30] <wesolows> and I probably wouldn't know it anyway, because I'd have to filter the list so heavily that I'd basically never read it
[02:39:48] <richlowe> dlg: in the same way update connection is missing the obvious k?
[02:40:01] <wesolows> dlg: It's quite possible that someone named it that way intentionally and got away with it.  Consider the Solaris Crash Analysis Tool.
[02:40:04] <dlg> k?
[02:40:31] <alanc> richlowe: no, I posted it to discuss after joerg was ranting about Sun being in the Blu-Ray consortium but not having anything to do with Blu-Ray discs with ISO-9660 filesystems on, which are the only ones that count to Joerg
[02:40:32] <dlg> heh
[02:41:00] <richlowe> alanc: oh, you tried to teach *other people* something on -discuss
[02:41:04] <richlowe> alanc: overall, I think that's worse.
[02:41:39] <jmcp> wesolows: now be fair, we wuz using "fm" for that before the naming people got to it
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[02:42:22] <alanc> nrubsig: the triage-queue just spit up CR 6609257 Created P4 opensolaris/triage-queue RFE: Cleanup dtrace ksh scripts
[02:42:47] * wesolows builds a bunker and awaits the inevitable clash between Team DTrace and nrubsig
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[02:43:03] <nrubsig> wesolows: erm, don't worry
[02:43:05] <e^ipi> nuke the site from orbit
[02:43:12] <e^ipi> (it's the only way to be sure)
[02:43:15] <alanc> the bug says he already talked to ahl & brendang
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[02:43:19] <nrubsig> wesolows: we already talked about that thing.
[02:43:20] <wesolows> ok
[02:43:36] * jmcp shoots a bunker-buster @ wesolows' bunker
[02:43:54] <wesolows> bah, your bunker-buster is no match for my bunker-buster-buster!
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[02:43:59] <alanc> b.o.o does seem to have nicely mangled it by converting to xml/html entities...
[02:44:00] <jmcp> hey buster!
[02:44:10] <alanc> while (( i &#60; iter )) ; do
[02:44:15] * Tempt slips around the back and patches the poison gas into the air supply.
[02:44:42] <flyingparchment> btw, the latest fun java bug is great.. if your $HOME is the wrong length, some operations will randomly fail
[02:44:45] <jmcp> Tempt: did your new job start this morning?
[02:44:54] <jmcp> define "wrong length" ?
[02:44:54] <Tempt> Monday, man, Monday.
[02:45:04] <wesolows> yum, poison gas to go with my normal breakfast of kerosene and nails
[02:45:09] <Tempt> Last day at current job today.
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[02:45:20] <Tempt> About to teach DBAs about basic performance monitoring.
[02:45:23] <jmcp> myuahahahahaha
[02:45:28] <jmcp> good luck
[02:45:31] <Tempt> I prepared slides and everything.
[02:45:42] <Tempt> Good thing there's that nifty opensolaris template.
[02:45:45] <e^ipi> Tempt: anything catching fire today?
[02:45:49] <Tempt> Nope.
[02:45:54] <Tempt> Not worried if it does.
[02:46:14] <flyingparchment> jmcp: i was going to link to the cr, but they fixed sunsolve so i can't see protected content any more
[02:46:25] <flyingparchment> jmcp: basically certain lengths cause a 1-byte buffer overrun
[02:46:33] <jmcp> craptastic
[02:46:34] <flyingparchment> ("/root" works, "/home/river" doesn't)
[02:46:34] <Tempt> Oh, that's sad.
[02:47:23] <flyingparchment> jmcp: 6598663
[02:47:32] <jmcp> ta
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[02:47:54] <flyingparchment> not on b.o.o of course ;)
[02:48:05] <richlowe> flyingparchment: I'm not sure they fixed it so much as broke it.
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[02:48:21] <richlowe> aww, nope.
[02:48:26] <richlowe> damnit, that was handy too
[02:48:44] <jmcp> flyingparchment: closed as dup of 6431847
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[02:49:24] <nrubsig> alanc: thanks... can you put me into the interest list, please ?
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[02:49:33] <alanc> already did
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[02:49:44] <nrubsig> alanc: thanks! :-)
[02:49:56] <jmcp> which is marked as fix delivered for java6, and fix available for 5.0u14 and 1.4.2_17
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[02:55:48] <holcomb> how do you make wifi connections persist across reboots?
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[02:58:52] <SYS64738> holcomb, doensn't gnome make its work ?
[02:59:11] <e^ipi> heh...
[02:59:18] <e^ipi> that feature was removed a couple versions ago
[02:59:23] <e^ipi> it was confusing users, you see
[03:01:20] <holcomb> dladm is definitely the way to go, but network/physical(:default) still tries to use wificonfig
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[03:04:05] <holcomb> and i don't want nwam (plus i don't think it helps - known_wifi_nets is highly undocumented and doesn't seem to include wpa)
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[03:48:24] <tek-ops> Can I make a raidz initially with only 2 disks, and add a third later?
[03:48:42] <tek-ops> or migrate a mirrored zpool to a raidz, for that matter
[03:49:30] <sommerfeld> tek-ops: only if you have five disks to play with and it won't be an online migration.
[03:50:55] <sommerfeld> once the "reduce pool capacity" RFE is implemented it will be feasible
[03:55:47] <elektronkind> hey sommerfeld
[03:56:00] <elektronkind> how did you turn on flush cache ignores on your 3510?
[03:56:13] <SYS64738> good night
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[04:00:23] <elektronkind> the new x4150/4450 looke awesome
[04:00:50] <elektronkind> I just hope they don't have a different incarnation of LOM
[04:02:20] <jbk> well it's a question of who designed the box
[04:02:34] <jbk> it seems (from what I can gather) each group develops their own LOM
[04:02:49] <jbk> which is why there's a whole bunch of different ones
[04:03:13] <bda> Oh, bastards.
[04:03:18] * bda
[04:03:29] * bda just got an X4100 last. week.
[04:03:44] <elektronkind> 4100 still a great machine, don't sweat it
[04:04:11] <elektronkind> this is sun's first intel product since the V60z
[04:04:18] <elektronkind> give it time to bake
[04:04:21] <wesolows> elektronkind: The Dorado/Tucana ILOMs are basically the same as what's in G2F
[04:04:24] <sommerfeld> elektronkind: so, I didn't do anything in particular.  I just watched the telnet console ui say "N% dirty" when the only thing writing to the device was the zil
[04:04:39] <bda> Yeah, I only buy Apple Rev A kit, because I'm used to getting reamed by them. :)
[04:05:25] <richlowe> wesolows: sometimes I think you try to help without being helpful :)
[04:05:32] <elektronkind> sommerfeld: ah. yes, the telemetry on the 35xx controllers is quite informative, no? ;)
[04:06:00] <wesolows> richlowe: eh?  Same software base, just a newer version.  Mine has...2.0.2.3.1.3.whatever, which is newer than what's out for G2F.
[04:06:22] <sommerfeld> I suspect people don't have the secret decoder ring for "G2F"
[04:06:29] <elektronkind> 1.1.8 is what's current for galaxy (M2, non-M2)
[04:06:29] <wesolows> Galaxy F
[04:06:35] <wesolows> the M2 is F
[04:06:43] <elektronkind> ah
[04:07:09] <sommerfeld> it's fascinating how some info is only available by sccli, and some is only available via telnet..
[04:07:10] <wesolows> X4[12]00M2 is G1F/G2F.  It has ILOM software that's basically just an older rev of what's in the new machines.
[04:07:29] <sommerfeld> (like the vague battery bargraph vs a "charging/charged" indicator in sccli)
[04:08:01] <elektronkind> wesolows: cool... as long as it's consistent is all I care. I don't want to see another newisys -> galaxy whiplash :)
[04:08:24] <elektronkind> sommerfeld: not to mention the "there but kind of not" web UI
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[04:09:14] <wesolows> elektronkind: No, it's not like that at all.  You still get asked whether you're sure you want to start /SP/console. :-)
[04:09:20] <elektronkind> ;)
[04:10:09] <wesolows> ok, time to go get plastered
[04:10:11] <wesolows> later folks
[04:10:17] <wesolows> glad I could be unhelpful :-)
[04:10:18] <elektronkind> have fun
[04:10:23] <richlowe> wesolows: hah.
[04:10:25] <jbk> heh.. whoever thought up that interface should be smacked
[04:10:57] <jbk> what is so bad about 'poweron' or 'poweroff' ?
[04:11:07] <dlg> jbk: thats way too easy
[04:11:22] <sommerfeld> jbk: you are not alone in your feeling about that cli..
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[04:11:56] <jbk> i don't want to say how long it took me to figure that one out (no docs) just to get the x4200 to turn on :)
[04:12:41] <dlg> probably specced by someone who loves ipmi and thought acpi was a reasonable specification
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[04:12:49] <jbk> haha
[04:12:51] <sommerfeld> elektronkind: anyhow, i recently replaced 2xA5200 with 4x3510-jbod, but the 3510-jbods were assembled out of the parts of 4 3510-raids and 2 3510-jbods (one with no disks) and some other bits & pieces.
[04:12:55] <jbk> i once tried to read the acpi docs
[04:12:59] <sommerfeld> something of a frankenstein operation.
[04:13:14] <hile_> nice, sommerfeld.
[04:13:41] <sommerfeld> the 3510-raid-as-zil thing was based on the parts I had left over
[04:13:46] <jbk> it was painful
[04:14:02] <jbk> and i still had 0 clue what it was supposed to do
[04:14:03] <dlg> jbk: imagine implementing it
[04:14:04] <elektronkind> that's an expensive zil
[04:14:36] <sommerfeld> they were hand-me-downs from another group within sun.
[04:14:47] <boyd> Tempt: pong
[04:15:04] <jbk> best as i can tell it's 'does stuff' on x86 and seems to have some sort of mini-interpeted language
[04:15:04] <sommerfeld> (just like the a5200's that preceded them)
[04:15:19] <dlg> jbk: thats about right
[04:15:39] <sommerfeld> jbk: good summary.  firmware written in an interpreted language; the os needs to supply the interpreter.
[04:15:48] <dlg> stuff is understating it though
[04:16:14] <jbk> well that's the thing... i couldn't actually figure out what all the stuff was actually supposed to do
[04:16:24] <jbk> order a pizza, melt your cpu
[04:16:46] <boyd> Make coffee
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[04:18:07] <sommerfeld> elektronkind: of the six arrays, i had 4 and a half rack kits.  completed the half rack kits with some cut-down v65x-era rack mount parts.
[04:18:30] <jbk> it seemed like the standard was written assuming those reading it already knew the standard (and thus probably didn't need it)
[04:20:22] <sommerfeld> jbk: well, it had something of a steep learning curve.  (butted heads with it and managed to get some vaguely working bits & pieces of code but it was a pain)
[04:21:34] <jbk> seemed like it
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[05:26:48] <tek-ops> hmmm
[05:27:05] <tek-ops> I'm having trouble getting solaris to see drives on my Sil3512
[05:27:29] <tek-ops> I've heard of them being stuck in psuedo-"raid" mode, anyone know if that's true?
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[05:30:03] <tek-ops> ok, well I'm off for now, night all
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[05:30:49] <GSN> Anyone here had any experiance with Sun V480 servers ?
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[05:36:05] <kaiwai> hmm, there is an issue with jds on B71 + ONNV bfu upgrade :(
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[05:37:19] <kaiwai> dbus fails to load, its complains about undefined symbols
[05:37:47] <richlowe> from what?
[05:37:58] <kaiwai> libexpat.so.1
[05:38:04] <richlowe> did you build onnv, or get it from dlc?
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[05:38:10] <richlowe> that's the SFW issue
[05:38:17] <richlowe> but the update scripts to get past it aren't available to us.
[05:38:19] <kaiwai> got it from dlc
[05:38:26] <kaiwai> :(
[05:38:29] <richlowe> you could build a newer sfwnv.
[05:38:35] <richlowe> or just SUNWlexpat from a newer sfwnv
[05:38:41] <flyingparchment> you can build sfw now?
[05:38:47] <richlowe> flyingparchment: if the stars align
[05:39:13] <kaiwai> richlowe: I replaced the dbus with the one that came on the cd and GNOME fails to load; x just crashes and reloads
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[05:39:36] <richlowe> that's probably a worse idea.
[05:40:10] <kaiwai> it would be nice for the person who released it to inform the unwashed masses what has been ballsed up
[05:40:27] <richlowe> wait, dbus or hal?
[05:40:34] <richlowe> I'm assuming you're hitting http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/pages/2007092201/
[05:40:51] <kaiwai> dbus
[05:41:30] <kaiwai> is there a precompiled package available for download
[05:41:58] <richlowe> no idea
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[05:42:29] <richlowe> it'd make most sense to get the update* bits out.
[05:42:57] <richlowe> or for you to pull the package from snv_73, when you can.
[05:43:06] <richlowe> or for the package from snv_73 to be put somewher.
[05:44:33] <kaiwai> :(
[05:45:39] <jmcp> GSN: do you have a question which is specifically about v480s, or is it a general question?
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[05:45:53] <kaiwai> jmcp: do you have access to the latest libexpat?
[05:45:58] <richlowe> kaiwai: actually.
[05:46:02] <richlowe> kaiwai: gimme a sec.
[05:46:05] <kaiwai> cool
[05:46:11] <jmcp> kaiwai: no idea
[05:46:17] <jmcp> kaiwai: should I, and do I care?
[05:46:32] <kaiwai> jmcp: wanted to obtain a copy off someone
[05:46:35] <jmcp> oh
[05:46:42] <jmcp> sorry, don't think I can help you
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[05:53:13] <sponix> richlowe:  have experience with running Linux inside a Solaris container ?
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[05:59:20] <GSN> jmcp what ram do they use? its an older v480 with 900mHz cpu's
[05:59:42] * jmcp goes to find out
[05:59:47] <jbk> i think they use the same ram as the rest of the product line (v490/v880/v890)
[05:59:57] <xinkeT> yes
[06:00:10] <jbk> though the prtdiag output can get confusing :)
[06:01:05] <xinkeT> it's not confusing
[06:01:30] <jmcp> GSN: did you want part numbers?
[06:02:02] <jbk> it is when you're trying to figure out what's actually there (physically), if any slots are empty, and what's needed if you want to upgrade
[06:02:13] <GSN> jmcp yeah that would be great
[06:02:16] <jmcp> jbk: you're correct about the compatibility with v490 etc
[06:02:25] <jbk> figured :)
[06:02:30] <jbk> sun tends to be good about that
[06:03:00] <jbk> (part interoperability)
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[06:03:08] <jbk> i actually won $2 on that
[06:03:20] <jmcp> 501-7385 (2Gb = 4x512Mb), 501-7386 (4Gb = 4x1Gb), 501-5401 (1Gb = 4x256Mb)
[06:03:32] <xinkeT> jbk: ar eyou like me with 8gb of memory as 256mb dimms?
[06:03:41] <GSN> cheers
[06:03:42] <jmcp> or separately, 501-5401 (256Mb), 501-5030 (512Mb), 540-5086 (1Gb)
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[06:04:00] <GSN> also is there any hypervisors Vmware or Xen etc that run on sparcs ?
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[06:04:15] <jbk> well it depends on the box, but trying to figure out what you can and can't add, when you have to do a swapout, etc. can get confusing
[06:04:24] <jbk> sun even screws it up quite often :)
[06:04:29] <flyingparchment> GSN: ldoms, but not on the V480 :)
[06:04:30] <jmcp> t1000/t2000 have the possibility of LDoms, don't think previous UltraSPARC revs do though
[06:04:37] <richlowe> no.
[06:04:49] <GSN> flyingparchment dam ok cheers
[06:05:12] <jbk> do the olympus boxes support it?
[06:05:21] <jmcp> nfi
[06:05:26] <jbk> i haven't gotten to touch any, so dunno if they're sun4u or sun4v
[06:05:56] <jmcp> more sun4u than v, I believe
[06:06:26] <jbk> so probably have to wait for the rock systems then..
[06:06:31] <jbk> if various websites are to be believed
[06:06:40] <jmcp> I would
[06:06:46] <jmcp> El Reg seems to be pretty accurate :-)
[06:07:25] <jbk> yes, in the past, it has pretty much matched all the NDA presentations sun gave at my old job, i don't get to see any of those though at my new job
[06:08:16] <jbk> (too big and too far down on the foodchain)
[06:08:25] <GSN> I can get a Sun V480 2x900Mhz 2GB RAM for $500, just wondering if that would be a good choice for a hosting server? Cpanel or Plesk etc
[06:08:39] <jmcp> what are cpanel and plesk?
[06:08:45] <GSN> control panels
[06:08:48] <jbk> can't speak for plesk, but last i heard cpanel is pretty much linux-only
[06:09:16] <jbk> and the code is so horrid, you'd be better off writing something from scratch than to try to port it
[06:09:36] <dlg> jmcp: insane
[06:09:45] <GSN> yeah ok
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[06:10:01] <jbk> though my friend no longer works for them
[06:10:26] <jmcp> dlg: I know I am ...
[06:11:25] <jbk> heh
[06:11:39] <kaiwai> richlowe: got it working now :)
[06:12:03] <kaiwai> I found a bug though, rhythmbox icon isn't in the multimedia menu
[06:12:32] <jbk> rhythmbox crashes for me immediately after loading
[06:12:43] <richlowe> jbk: how old a build?
[06:12:47] <jbk> b72
[06:12:52] <richlowe> ah.
[06:13:05] <jmcp> that's like, sooooo last week
[06:13:07] <jmcp> :-0
[06:13:08] <flyingparchment> the rhythmbox icon was found to be owned by SCO, so it had to be removed
[06:13:10] <jbk> ospm and gnome-volume manager also tend to crash repeatedly on login
[06:13:13] <flyingparchment> sun marketing is working on drawing another one
[06:13:22] <richlowe> it's the nscd crash that's annoying me.
[06:13:36] <jbk> haven't seen that one (yet at least)
[06:13:40] <richlowe> I have a whole bunch of cores, there's already a bug against it, I'll be damned if I can find where it's happening though
[06:13:51] <jbk> pstack not useful?
[06:14:13] <richlowe> jbk: Yeah, it's a victim of something else though.
[06:14:23] <jbk> ahh yes
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[06:17:49] <GSN> one more things guys, do i need a sun keyboard and monitor for the V480 to load an os ?
[06:17:59] <flyingparchment> use a serial console
[06:18:18] <flyingparchment> does your V480 even have a framebuffer?
[06:18:28] <GSN> dont know havent got it yet
[06:19:04] <GSN> so u mean like connect to it via minicom ?
[06:19:17] <jmcp> yes
[06:19:19] <jbk> i wouldn't be surprised if it had an unconfigured rsc card though :)
[06:19:31] <jmcp> GSN: 9600 baud, 8 data, 1 stop, no parity
[06:19:38] <jbk> no hardware flow control
[06:19:41] <GSN> cool
[06:19:42] <jmcp> that too
[06:20:40] <GSN> for 500 i thought it would even be a good web/email/file server
[06:20:47] <jbk> both here and at my last company, they get the servers w/ them installed, but then still hook up a terminal to ttya instead of setting up the rsc card :(
[06:20:58] <jmcp> jbk: what a bunch of slackers
[06:21:05] <jmcp> GSN: it seems reasonable for $500
[06:21:39] <GSN> yeah thats what i thought never had any sun kit before also so its a chnage to play around with it too
[06:21:47] <GSN> chance
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[06:23:56] <jbk> jmcp: well for the longest time, we couldn't even network our seregenti system controllers
[06:24:08] <jbk> because of our stone-age network admins
[06:26:35] <jmcp> I have a SunCluster tshirt which shows stone-age admins
[06:28:11] <jmcp> jbk: I'll take a photo of it and mail you
[06:28:42] <Triskelios> kaiwai: you need a snv_73 package?
[06:29:11] <jbk> haha
[06:32:13] <kaiwai> Triskelios: na, its ok, I manually downloaded the source and installed it
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[06:32:33] <Triskelios> k
[06:32:49] <kaiwai> Triskelios: just kinda annoyed the package isn't available as a seperate download
[06:32:56] <Triskelios> what was the issue, btw?
[06:33:12] <kaiwai> libexpat/dbus unresolved symbols issues
[06:33:54] <Triskelios> huh, didn't have any problems linking against dbus in b72...
[06:35:26] <kaiwai> when I installed B75 of GNOME 2.20, dbus failed to launch, it was traced back to a libexpat upgrade made
[06:36:07] <Triskelios> oh, I only had vermillion_74
[06:36:50] <jmcp> jbk: http://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/~jmcp/images/SunCluster_rocks.jpg
[06:37:00] <sponix> kaiwai:  B75, I just got SXCE of B72, how are you that far ahead ? :P
[06:37:35] <jbk> hahaha nice
[06:37:52] * jbk only has a 'no, i will not fix your computer' t-shirt
[06:37:55] <jbk> from sun
[06:38:25] <sponix> love that shirt
[06:38:43] <Triskelios> sponix: jds vermillion (gnome) has a slightly different release schedule, although I expect b73 will be posted on Friday
[06:39:18] <kaiwai> hmm, I'm waiting for SXCE B74 due to ata related issues
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[06:39:49] <sponix> kaiwai:  what are the _issues_ prior to b74 ?
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[06:40:42] <kaiwai> sponix: well from B72 onwards ata support for some dvd/cd drives is broken
[06:41:10] <kaiwai> but the issue has been addressedd, and according to the engineer at Sun, it should be merged into B74
[06:41:56] <Bartman007> kaiwai: maybe I'm trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, but do you have anymore info on that issue?
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[06:42:42] <Bartman007> hmm, nevermind, seem to have found some, describes the issue I ran into.
[06:43:24] <sponix> kaiwai:  guess its a good thing I downloaded B70 && 72
[06:43:35] <sponix> kaiwai:  thanks for the heads-up
[06:43:49] <kaiwai> hmm, the cool side, on the current release, heaps of pcfs updates/bug fixes on their way :)
[06:44:20] <sponix> kaiwai:  where do you get your info ?
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[06:44:45] <kaiwai> info related to the pcfs or ata?
[06:45:15] <sponix> both
[06:45:32] <kaiwai> go down to pcfs: http://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/current/on-changelog-20070924.html
[06:46:42] <kaiwai> cd/dvd related issue: http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do?bug_id=6600169
[06:47:00] <kaiwai> I have two drivers which addresses the issue
[06:48:15] <kaiwai> fixes that 2k issue which brings a smile to my dile
[06:48:24] <kaiwai> *2k sector issue
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[06:59:34] <Triskelios> grr new version of tomboy fails in Mono.Addins
[06:59:41] <Triskelios> damn you, gnome
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[07:08:59] <mantas> hi can someone say where can i find Xorg config file?
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[07:09:37] <sponix> normally /etc/X11/
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[07:10:59] <mantas> sponix, $ ls /etc/X11
[07:10:59] <mantas> gdm        sysconfig
[07:10:59] <mantas> $
[07:15:43] <richlowe> Xorg generates it at runtime, it puts it in /etc/X11/.xorg.conf
[07:15:48] <richlowe> copy that to /etc/X11/xorg.conf, and modify it.
[07:15:53] <richlowe> (if you need to change it...)
[07:18:28] <mantas> its after new install
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[07:19:30] <tiboux> Hello
[07:26:47] <trochej> 'lo
[07:26:51] <trochej> Coffee
[07:27:40] <tiboux> ok
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[07:41:19] <WickySlacking> howedy
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[07:42:18] <tiboux> Is anybody can help me... i just recompil php on my box and apache can't start ...
[07:42:34] <trochej> Any trace in logs?
[07:43:12] <tiboux> i add support for gd ... so i add "-liconv -lintl" in EXTRA_LIBS
[07:43:17] <tiboux> compil is ok ...
[07:43:29] <tiboux> but i obtain the following error on apache start :
[07:43:38] <tiboux> Cannot load /usr/apache2/libexec/libphp5.so into server: ld.so.1: httpd: fatal :  erreur de r\xe9adressage : fichiers /usr/apache2/libexec/libphp5.so : symbole libiconv_open : symbole r\xe9f\xe9renc\xe9 introuvable
[07:44:23] <tiboux> so same error i obtained during compiling php before assing -liconv in EXTRA_LIBS from Makefile
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[07:58:17] <tiboux> any Idea trochej ?
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[08:04:38] <trochej> Nope, sorry
[08:10:00] <tiboux> thanks for your help
[08:17:25] <e^ipi> who wants to help me shove my i18n code in to libc somewhere
[08:17:43] <richlowe> in what sense?
[08:17:49] <e^ipi> i'm sick and bloody tired of fighting with spaghetti makefiles
[08:17:58] <richlowe> ask questions, get answers.
[08:18:01] <richlowe> :)
[08:18:57] <tiboux> libtool: install: error: cannot install `libphp5.la' to a directory not ending in /export/home/seb/archives/php-5.2.0/libs
[08:19:01] <tiboux> what's this error ?
[08:19:10] <tiboux> i just remove gd support in php ...
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[08:27:04] <palowoda> Heh nobody likes libtool questions.
[08:27:44] <tiboux> i don't like so ;)
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[09:19:41] <trochej> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MassachusettsTeam/Projects/AluminiumCaseBadges
[09:19:50] <trochej> What about such things for OpenSolaris? :)
[09:20:33] <renihs> they would sell better for sure :)
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[09:57:38] <e^ipi> trochej: +1
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[09:58:00] <e^ipi> I'd buy a stack of 'em
[09:58:00] <quasi> trochej: I'd take a strip or two
[09:59:13] <e^ipi> talk to sara, see if you can get it hooked up somehow
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[10:00:12] <quasi> there was a shop for opensolaris bits at one point
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[10:03:26] <e^ipi> and it would've cost $50 to mail a $10 tshirt to canada
[10:03:29] <asyd> \_o<
[10:03:34] <e^ipi> so it wasn't really worth looking in to
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[10:22:12] <WickedWicky> ohh my colueges will love me today
[10:22:21] * WickedWicky has a failing Netra 240 on his desk
[10:22:34] <WickedWicky> I hope for them they have their ipods with them
[10:23:09] <sniffy> SRSS on it?
[10:24:31] <asyd> hmm I probably miss something, what is the link beetween a failing netra and an ipod ? :)
[10:25:43] <nightswim> it's a noisy machine?
[10:25:53] <Berny> very noisy
[10:26:10] <Berny> though not quite as bad as a t1000 or x2200
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[10:27:06] <sniffy> Aaah that's the missing link.
[10:33:26] <e^ipi> jesus christ this is taking forever
[10:33:57] <e^ipi> note: don't create a new ON tree unless you have a few hours to kill while HG does it's thing
[10:35:22] <richlowe> bringing over from hg.o.o, or locally?
[10:35:23] <quasi> e^ipi: just don't do it on an underpowered box with a lousy storage system ;)
[10:35:45] <richlowe> e^ipi: we've hit at least one issue on hg.o.o that can kinda make things drag unnaturally.
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[10:36:01] <e^ipi> richlowe: it's originally onnv-gate, and right now i'm pushing to emancipation-gate
[10:36:10] <richlowe> oh, you're pushing?
[10:36:11] <richlowe> Yeah, that hurts.
[10:36:24] <richlowe> The key is to get someone to clone it on the remote, then only push your bits
[10:36:32] <richlowe> we RFE'd that against the SCM management app long ago
[10:36:39] <richlowe> (it isn't done, but.)
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[10:47:30] <richlowe> mornin' alanbur
[10:47:38] <alanbur> Morning
[10:48:35] <alanbur> BT-- (Still no WAN connection to office after 24h)
[10:49:27] <alanbur> Derby-- (Doesn't support START and LIMIT for doing scrollable result sets)
[10:49:37] <alanbur> I can see it is going to be one of those days...
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[10:59:43] <timsf> hi all
[11:00:18] <Berny> hi timsf
[11:00:31] <richlowe> hey timsf.
[11:00:52] <dlg> how long till nigara 2 machines are available do you think?
[11:02:07] <timsf> Will have monthly news & audio from last night's ie-osug talk up later today hopefully
[11:02:44] <quasi> timsf: what was the topic this time around?
[11:03:20] <timsf> LDoms
[11:03:24] <quasi> dlg: when they haven't even shown pics of them yet, I doubt it will be anytime soon
[11:03:33] <quasi> timsf: ah, cool
[11:03:34] <timsf> quite an interesting talk, with a good deal of questions at the end, I thought.
[11:03:56] <dlg> so not in the next month?
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[11:20:59] <sparcdr> ;o
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[11:22:40] <Giacox> hi
[11:22:48] <sparcdr> hi
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[11:25:34] <Giacox> sparcdr, I reached to compile php with-oci8
[11:26:11] <Giacox> now I have only this error: Warning: oci_connect() [function.oci-connect]: OCIEnvNlsCreate() failed. There is something wrong with your system - please check that LD_LIBRARY_PATH includes the directory with Oracle Instant Client libraries in /opt/coolstack/apache2/htdocs/Accesso/connect_Oracle.php on line 13
[11:26:34] <sparcdr> yeah
[11:26:38] <sparcdr> should be an easy fix
[11:26:47] <Giacox> eheh SHOULD
[11:26:54] <sparcdr> although...
[11:27:05] <sparcdr> I have an idea
[11:27:39] <sparcdr> since services read environment variables from the manifests, you'd want to include LD_LIBRARY_PATH stuff in the manifest to fix this
[11:27:56] <sparcdr> I don't believe adding LD_LIBRARY_PATH to /etc/default/login would affect SMF
[11:28:39] <sparcdr> i only mention /etc/default/login since it's where PATH is set globally to each user on login
[11:28:59] <Giacox> ah
[11:29:07] <sparcdr> I'm assuming you used the manifest from a sun blog and imported it
[11:29:12] <Giacox> yes
[11:29:15] <sparcdr> it should be in /opt/coolstack/lib/svc
[11:29:25] <sparcdr> let me fire up my sol box
[11:29:31] <sparcdr> ill tell you if it'd be safe to add that
[11:29:31] <Giacox> you talk about the method
[11:29:43] <sparcdr> that's what I'm getting to
[11:29:50] <sparcdr> yeah that's it
[11:30:06] <alanbur> Why would you ever set LD_LIBRAY_PATH globally like that?  Just set it in the manifest
[11:30:10] <sparcdr> get them confused
[11:30:17] <sparcdr> that's what I meant alanbur
[11:30:26] <alanbur> LD_LIBRAY_PATH-- (evil)
[11:30:31] <sparcdr> did you not read what I said?  I said add it to the apache specific smf service
[11:30:38] <sparcdr> aka method
[11:30:39] <alanbur> $ORIGIN++
[11:30:46] <sparcdr> blah
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[11:31:46] <alanbur> I'm agreeing with you - setting it in /etc/default/login would'nt work
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[11:32:19] <sparcdr> Giacox, just add it to /opt/coolstack/lib/svc/method/svc-cskapache2 under the top variables
[11:32:26] <alanbur> I remember having a similar problem linking the perl DBI drivers agains the IC libs...
[11:32:44] <sparcdr> LD_LIBRARY_PATH="/opt/oracleshite/lib:/lib:/usr/lib:/whatever"
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[11:33:18] <sparcdr> static compile would had worked (Albeit bloated ;))
[11:33:24] <alanbur> I think I used $ORIGIN when I built the DBD::Oracle driver...
[11:33:37] <sparcdr> oh
[11:33:42] <sparcdr> Yeah, I have little oracle experience
[11:34:03] <Giacox> sparcdr,  in use export LD_LIBRARY.. in the method file ore simple add what did you say in a line ?
[11:34:04] <sparcdr> still waiting on U4 iso part b to finish
[11:34:14] <sparcdr> no dont need export, it's internal
[11:34:21] <Giacox> ok
[11:34:22] <sparcdr> under PIDFILE line
[11:34:23] <alanbur> I haven't looked at it for a while, but their library setup always used to suck, pretty much
[11:34:48] <sparcdr> if it bricks don't stone me :D
[11:34:58] <Giacox> however I must copy two libs in the global/lib dir to make it work
[11:34:59] <sparcdr> or wait, that sounds like a good idea :p
[11:35:10] <sparcdr> no?
[11:35:18] <sparcdr> you can just add that to LD's path
[11:35:19] <e^ipi> hg is retarded.
[11:35:23] <e^ipi> just throwing that out there
[11:35:33] <richlowe> what's it doing
[11:35:36] <e^ipi> it completely ignores ~/.hgrc
[11:35:40] <richlowe> bug reports, etc.
[11:35:43] <sparcdr> e^ipi, I use postgresql myself, and I think oracle is a money sucker
[11:35:46] <richlowe> ... no it doesn't
[11:35:51] <richlowe> though I need more detail than that, obviously.
[11:35:52] <sparcdr> Larry Ellison is the top paid exec of any company, ever
[11:35:55] <e^ipi> and the username error404@abaddon is meaningless to anyone but myself
[11:36:08] <richlowe> e^ipi:
[11:36:11] <richlowe> [ui]
[11:36:16] <e^ipi> yes, i've done that
[11:36:20] <richlowe> username = Richard Lowe <richlowe@...>
[11:36:32] <richlowe> of course, if the change is already committed, it's already committed.
[11:36:45] <richlowe> history doesn't change in flight, ever.
[11:36:52] <Giacox> sparcdr, no way it doesn't work
[11:36:55] <sparcdr> had to mirror the isos and protect them for Solaris 10 U4 since Sun's servers are fail (Inconsistent speeds)
[11:37:05] <sparcdr> Giacox, without quotes and try export
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[11:37:37] <sparcdr> eg export LOLPATH=/lib:/lol
[11:37:47] <ghatak> can you break solaris hardware Raid 5 mirrors ?
[11:37:54] <e^ipi> no, the change hasn't been committed
[11:38:22] <richlowe> then yeah, I'd need more detail
[11:38:52] <sparcdr> I can brick SDXE on my Thinkpad, that's for sure... probably should read instructions more often when upgrading bits
[11:39:02] <e^ipi> there, bloody.. finally...
[11:39:14] <richlowe> can haz detail?
[11:39:15] <e^ipi> i think it's parsing ~/.hg/hgrc for some unknown reason
[11:39:38] <sparcdr> when was suspend/resume and better frequency control being implemented?  I heard B74
[11:39:52] <sparcdr> can has no clue?
[11:40:12] <sparcdr> lolerskates ^_^
[11:40:15] <Giacox> ops! Total: 1907 processes, 1298 lwps, load averages: 304.42, 73.64, 25.38
[11:40:22] <sparcdr> eh
[11:40:25] <sparcdr> that sounds like fail
[11:40:46] <sparcdr> load averages: 0.73 0.72 0.53 (notebook)
[11:40:56] <Giacox> load averages: 532.26 ghghghg
[11:41:03] <sparcdr> ouch
[11:41:04] <sparcdr> :(
[11:41:15] <e^ipi> sparcdr: solaris can handle load averages that high *shrug*
[11:41:22] <sparcdr> I know
[11:41:27] <sparcdr> but it's still a tad high
[11:41:29] <sparcdr> cough
[11:41:33] <richlowe> e^ipi: it should read $CODEMGR_WS/.hg/hgrc and ~/.hgrc and /etc/hgrc in that order
[11:41:40] <Giacox> incredible I don't lost the shell
[11:41:43] <richlowe> (/etc/mercurial/hgrc, rather)
[11:41:58] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[11:42:16] <sparcdr> e^ipi, depends on box, for some 100.00 would be peak, while others far less.  Loonix is around 60 before the box bricks.  FreeBSD in my experience can sustain 300.00
[11:42:17] <e^ipi> it was ignoring ~/.hgrc on my machine anyways... ~/.hg/hgrc cleared it up
[11:42:23] <sparcdr> richlowe, what the hell?
[11:42:34] <sparcdr> that's odd
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[11:43:31] <sparcdr> I have good news... not!  "This suit is black not"
[11:43:46] <sparcdr> hello newbie
[11:44:00] *** newbie is now known as przemol
[11:44:11] <Giacox> I lost apache control
[11:44:16] <sparcdr> blah
[11:44:19] <sparcdr> ps -ef|grep httpd
[11:44:27] <sparcdr> kill -9 the sucker! DIE DIE DIE
[11:44:28] <Giacox> I think I'll buy a comanche heli
[11:44:35] <sparcdr> haha
[11:44:46] <sparcdr> okay so remove that line from the method :/
[11:44:53] <sparcdr> not sure where else to put it
[11:46:22] <sparcdr> blame canada!
[11:46:23] <sparcdr> :)
[11:49:21] <Tempt> Evenin' all.
[11:49:28] <alanbur> Morning
[11:49:39] <Giacox> half day to you Tempt
[11:50:15] <sparcdr> early early morning to you all
[11:51:21] <Giacox> sparcdr, where are you from ?
[11:51:33] <sparcdr> Southern California
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[11:56:00] <Giacox> I bought the top triple clamp for my suzuki overthere
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[11:58:13] <trochej> I had once a load average 400 on linux and it did pretty well: I could log in via ssh and kill rampage process. With considerable lag, of course
[11:58:18] <sparcdr> haha
[11:58:34] <sparcdr> max I ever did was 132 on a quad proc compaq proliant
[11:58:37] <sparcdr> (on linux)
[11:58:47] <sparcdr> with freebsd, I did 240 on the same machine
[11:58:48] <trochej> sparcdr: It was Pentium 4
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[11:58:57] <sparcdr> this was a p3 xeon
[11:59:08] <renihs> thats nothing, i once had +1000 on solaris (inside a vmware :)
[11:59:09] <sparcdr> 4x550MHz P3 Xeon
[11:59:12] <sparcdr> haha
[11:59:22] <renihs> for some strange reason :)
[11:59:31] <sparcdr> imho most desktop systems with linux cant handle more than 100 without choking
[11:59:56] <renihs> erm.. 1 would be 100% cpu on a single proc
[12:00:00] <sparcdr> I've hit 1000 on linux before, it looped over the load limit twice
[12:00:04] <renihs> so 100 would be ...alot choking :)
[12:00:30] <sparcdr> lol
[12:00:50] <sparcdr> if your box has more than 50 load, you need to stick your head between your legs
[12:01:15] <sparcdr> cause that's too much unless it's a 8 proc sun box or something.  we're talking normal use, not purposely raping it ;)
[12:01:52] <sparcdr> my normal vmware use gets out of hand, which is why I finally ponyed up for a large config ultra-20
[12:02:01] <ghatak> how do i list raid controllers on my box?
[12:02:08] <sparcdr> you wouldnt believe how much I kill my current boxes
[12:02:21] <sparcdr> maybe you would :)
[12:02:24] <sparcdr> anyways brb
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[12:05:50] <estibi> hi, the topic is outdated, now we have ON74 http://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/b74/
[12:06:03] <Giacox> sparcdr, /opt/coolstack/lib/svc/method/svc-cskapache2: LD_LIBRARY_PATH=opt/instantclient_10_2:/lib:/usr/lib: is not an identifier
[12:06:07] <Giacox> export is not the right way
[12:06:52] <sparcdr> blah
[12:06:59] <sparcdr> and it's /opt
[12:07:05] <sparcdr> not "opt" without slash
[12:07:16] <Giacox> ehehe true
[12:07:25] <sparcdr> yeah I got a bit of a question, kinda make seem seem nub
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[12:07:44] <trochej> http://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/b74/
[12:07:51] <trochej> Topic, again, seems a little late
[12:07:51] <sparcdr> I have 100 or so packages named SPRO
[12:08:24] <alanbur> To set an envvar in a service manifest, you need to use this:
[12:08:46] <sparcdr> normally you'd use pkgrm from cli, how would I remove all SPRO packages?
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[12:09:27] <alanbur> <envvar name='LD_LIBRARY_PATH' value="/opt/foo"/>
[12:09:27] <PerterB> pkginfo | awk '/SPRO/{ print $2 }' | xargs pkgrm
[12:09:49] <alanbur> In the <method-environment> section
[12:09:50] <PerterB> of course that'll whine about dependancies because it removes them in alphabetical order
[12:10:11] <sparcdr> no worries PerterB
[12:10:18] <sparcdr> thanks
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[12:12:48] <sparcdr> er
[12:12:53] <sparcdr> that doesnt work because it's non-interactive
[12:13:02] <sparcdr> Do you want to remove this package? [y,n,?,q]
[12:13:02] <sparcdr> 98 packages were not processed!
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[12:14:34] <alanbur> yes | pkgrm $(pkginfo | awk '/SPRO/{ print $2 }')
[12:14:55] <PerterB> exactly
[12:14:59] <sparcdr> was just thinking that
[12:15:26] <sparcdr> doesnt work though
[12:15:32] <alanbur> ?
[12:15:36] <sparcdr> still does the same thing
[12:15:45] <sparcdr> Do you want to remove this package? [y,n,?,q]
[12:15:45] <sparcdr> 98 packages were not processed!
[12:15:57] <PerterB> do you have pkgrm aliased to pkgrm -n in your shell or something?
[12:16:02] <sparcdr> no
[12:16:06] <alanbur> roo?
[12:16:11] <alanbur> root?
[12:16:11] <sparcdr> yes
[12:16:16] <alanbur> hmm...
[12:16:36] <sparcdr> root@sol10 ~# alias|grep pkg
[12:16:36] <sparcdr> root@sol10 ~#
[12:16:48] <PerterB> odd, because I'm pretty sure I've done it the xargs way in the past too
[12:17:05] <sparcdr> want to test it for yourself?
[12:17:10] <sparcdr> cause it doesn't work :(
[12:17:20] <sparcdr> add a dummy package or something
[12:17:32] <alanbur> us that the only error you get?  What happens if you try to remove just 1 package by hand?
[12:17:38] <PerterB> I could, but I don't really want to remove SPRO from this machine :)
[12:18:05] <sparcdr> I'm upgrading to SS12 (Not doing ON, this is a GA system, not SDXE or SDCE)
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[12:18:24] <sparcdr> I'm still on SS11
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[12:20:08] <sparcdr> okay so I did yes | pkgrm SPROctsrc and it answered the first yes/no/q but not the second when it ran against dependencies
[12:20:33] <sparcdr> prodreg bs :/
[12:22:22] <sparcdr> so i went lazy and tried prodreg from forwarded x11 and did ps -ef it's calling /usr/sadm/install/bin/pkgremove
[12:23:25] <PerterB> certainly works interactively, even with dependancies: http://www.pastebin.ca/715469
[12:24:01] <sparcdr> lol
[12:24:06] <sparcdr> that's not what you told me to use
[12:24:12] <sparcdr> yes | pkginfo | awk '/SPRO/{ print $2 }' | xargs pkgrm
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[12:24:57] <sparcdr> that works :)
[12:25:04] <sparcdr> danke
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[12:26:11] <PerterB> shell scripting 102
[12:27:23] <sparcdr> awk-less-dr 101
[12:27:26] <sparcdr> :p
[12:28:01] * PerterB finds a totally unpatched sol8 2/02 box, gah... Must stop looking under rocks
[12:28:07] <sparcdr> o.o
[12:28:17] <sparcdr> holy a$$cheese batman
[12:28:23] <sparcdr> that's gotta be painful PerterB
[12:30:17] <Berny> PerterB: i have one of those myself...
[12:30:25] <sparcdr> okay all done, not all were called SPRO, but I got the remaining ones
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[12:30:45] <sparcdr> SUNWnbide SUNWnbcpp SUNWexted SUJAexted SUJAnbcpp SUZHexted SUZHnbcpp and SPRO*
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[12:36:33] <sparcdr> cool my dvd's md5sums check out, burning U4 now
[12:38:09] <sparcdr> which means I get to have fun :D
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[12:45:18] <Giacox> ronf
[12:45:33] <Giacox> I hate when things don't change
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[12:48:14] <sparcdr> :o
[12:48:20] * sparcdr pets #opensolaris nice puppy
[12:50:50] <sparcdr> cool all is well my dvd works
[12:51:37] <WickedWicky> nice one
[12:51:43] <WickedWicky> crash dumps every day
[12:51:48] * WickedWicky is gonna file a case at sun
[12:52:08] <Berny> your collecting them now? :-)
[12:52:27] <Berny> s/your/you're/
[12:52:45] <sparcdr> blah
[12:52:48] <WickedWicky> there are 20 vmcores and unix files in /var/crash
[12:52:52] <Berny> .oO(time for lunch and a nap)
[12:53:00] <Berny> yuck what are you doing?
[12:53:03] <sparcdr> I collect magical cookies from Sun
[12:53:07] <Berny> poor box...
[12:53:07] <WickedWicky> trying to see whats wrong with it :P
[12:53:26] <sparcdr> Sun has shown me the light, praise bob!
[12:53:37] <Berny> .oO(did you try to fix it? yes [ ]  no [ ])
[12:53:41] * sparcdr is a terrible socialite
[12:53:46] <Berny> .oO(did it get worse?)
[12:54:04] <sparcdr> Maybe [?]
[12:54:40] <Berny> wicky can you read german?
[12:54:50] <WickedWicky> a bit
[12:54:55] <WickedWicky> it's similar to my language
[12:55:12] <Berny> try http://bachata.homeunix.org/~bernd/Helpdeskformular.pdf
[12:55:24] <Berny> will cheer you up a little ;-)
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[12:57:12] <Cyrille> this one is also in english all over the intarwebs.
[12:58:05] <WickedWicky> Now you describe the problem EXACTLY without annoying comments
[12:58:06] <WickedWicky> lol
[12:58:18] <Giacox> sparcdr, it works!
[12:58:20] <Berny> toldya :-)
[12:58:25] <WickedWicky> I love it
[12:58:40] <Cyrille> it's quite good alright
[12:58:51] <Berny> another nice one is bullshit bingo :-)
[12:59:12] <sparcdr> o.o
[12:59:46] <WickedWicky> this rox
[12:59:49] <WickedWicky> pkginfo | grep rpm
[12:59:55] <WickedWicky> application RHrpm
[13:00:13] <Cyrille> does rpm -qa | grep pkg work? ;-)
[13:00:55] <WickedWicky> rpm -qa doesnt return anything
[13:01:06] <sparcdr> eh
[13:01:09] <WickedWicky> thank you Siemens, for yet another non-standard solution
[13:01:09] <sparcdr> say what
[13:02:03] <WickedWicky> bullshit bingo we play during meetings
[13:02:05] <Berny> if you want something working dont buy siemens stuff *duck*
[13:02:06] <WickedWicky> hilarious
[13:02:22] <Berny> yepp
[13:02:22] <sparcdr> no need to duck
[13:02:26] <sparcdr> cause im not a duck
[13:02:39] <WickedWicky> you work for Siemens?
[13:02:40] <Berny> only one who didn't like bs bingo was our boss 8-)
[13:02:51] <sparcdr> hell no
[13:03:05] <sparcdr> just the name Siemens sounds flamboyant
[13:03:41] <sparcdr> sigh
[13:04:07] <WickedWicky> it's siemensnokianetworks now anyway
[13:04:16] <WickedWicky> or the otherway around actually
[13:04:20] <WickedWicky> nokiasiemensnetworks
[13:04:46] <sparcdr> o.o
[13:04:51] <Berny> whats siemens gotta do with nokia?
[13:05:00] <Berny> should i not buy a nokia phone?
[13:05:03] <sparcdr> Nokia is still called nokia, but when Simens is involved they are lulzMens
[13:05:08] <sparcdr> no Berny Nokia is fine
[13:05:13] <sparcdr> it's just seamens
[13:05:16] <Berny> .oO(i want a n95)
[13:05:23] <Berny> .oO(now!)
[13:05:27] <sparcdr> .oO too fscking expensive
[13:05:34] <sparcdr> unlocked N95 is $700 USD
[13:05:44] <sparcdr> I love Java and mini-OpenGL on them though
[13:05:45] <sparcdr> :)
[13:06:52] <sparcdr> My friend works for Nokia, he shows me an N93 on a TV playing a 3d tunnel game from it, really neat stuff.  He's into streaming/network stuff though.
[13:07:04] <WickedWicky> yea
[13:07:05] <WickedWicky> me too
[13:07:14] <WickedWicky> I have a N77 here for the DVB-H launch we'll do soon
[13:07:37] <WickedWicky> streaming/server/application admin is my main occupation here
[13:07:52] <sparcdr> unfortunately the one thing that's not so good is how SymbianOS was designed in 1993, it's memory management is constrained and awkward
[13:08:05] <sparcdr> he's a developer, algorithms in video
[13:08:14] <WickedWicky> the N77 had its fair share of crashing , newest firmware seems to solve that
[13:08:19] <sparcdr> to deal with EDGE crappyness, etc
[13:08:46] <sparcdr> WickedWicky, from a developer's standpoint the memory management on SymbianOS (S60) is convoluted
[13:09:36] <sparcdr> amazing they could make Bluetooth + Video + OpenGL + J2ME + WebKit browser + Realplayer even work on it :p
[13:09:51] <sparcdr> the internal rom is probably 256mb
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[13:10:15] <sparcdr> meh okay brb
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[13:12:44] <Giacox> I have a 389G array with six 150G disks (one is hot spare), what kind of raid I am using ?
[13:15:55] <sparcdr> RAID-5?
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[13:16:29] <Griffous> sounds right
[13:16:32] <sparcdr> 150 x 6 = 900 / 2 = 450 and that's be raid-1, and it's not raid-0 since you have 900gb
[13:16:33] <libkeise2> unless you've got the hot spare count wrong, sounds more like raid-6
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[13:16:47] <sparcdr> less than likely 6
[13:16:48] <sparcdr> but yeah
[13:17:18] <Giacox> I hate this stupid controller
[13:17:19] <sparcdr> My old server had 6 x 36gb at 210gb total on raid-0, with raid-5 it was like 143gb
[13:17:52] <sparcdr> Giacox, kind?
[13:18:14] <Giacox> lsi sas megaraid
[13:18:23] <Giacox> but not mfi
[13:18:26] <sparcdr> I prefer 3Ware and Areca myself.  Areca is the only fully supported 3rd party multi-port sata controller with Solaris x86 support.
[13:18:35] <dlg> uh...
[13:18:48] <dlg> Giacox: lsi megaraid sas is mfi
[13:18:49] <sparcdr> Adaptec's newer ones might be compatible
[13:18:52] <sparcdr> bad experience with those
[13:19:01] <sparcdr> anyways :o
[13:19:03] <trygvis> hm, I was sure that solaris come bundled with a postgresql manifest
[13:19:08] <Giacox> dlg, you are right (and I am using your driver)
[13:19:11] <sparcdr> it does trygvis
[13:19:15] <trygvis> where it it?
[13:19:19] <sparcdr> what version of Solaris?
[13:19:19] <trygvis> s,it,is,
[13:19:22] <trygvis> b72
[13:19:23] <sparcdr> U3 or U4?
[13:19:31] <sparcdr> ah that's SDCE
[13:19:36] <sparcdr> *SXCE
[13:19:37] <dlg> jmcp: i found a user!
[13:19:45] <trygvis> dunno, I just downloaded the normal build
[13:19:45] <sparcdr> cant comment on that
[13:20:03] <sparcdr> SDXE 04/04 (B64a) which I've tested afaik didn't have it either
[13:20:04] <trygvis> weird. postgres itself is there, but not the manifest
[13:20:08] <trygvis> (at least I can't find it)
[13:21:08] <sparcdr> cant find a bug report on that
[13:21:21] <sparcdr> checked /var/svc?
[13:21:45] <trygvis> yep, and it if where there it should have been loaded
[13:22:05] <sparcdr> blah :(
[13:23:35] <sparcdr> http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/howtoguides/smfmanifesthowto.jsp http://blog.pebcak.de/permalink/postgresql-svc-manifest.html
[13:24:17] <trygvis> yeah, I'll just use the one I already have
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[13:31:28] <Giacox> is xeon cpu ia64 arch ?
[13:31:37] <dlg> no
[13:32:21] <Giacox> I dont' know what gentoo release I must download to install on xeon to use 64bit
[13:32:29] <dlg> x86_64
[13:32:32] <dlg> or x64
[13:32:34] <dlg> or amd64
[13:32:57] <Stric> ia64 is itanium, "64 bit x86" is ia32 with 64bit extensions
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[13:33:42] <Stric> ia64/itanium was supposed to replace the old x86.. but intel kinda failed on that part.. hence the confusing names
[13:33:45] <Giacox> I would like to try xen
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[13:35:19] <dlg> Giacox: how many machines are you running mfi on?
[13:35:33] <Giacox> two
[13:35:45] <Giacox> I have a third machine
[13:35:50] <dlg> working ok?
[13:35:56] <Giacox> this where I am installing gentoo
[13:36:11] <spoown> Hello all
[13:36:17] <Giacox> dlg, seems ok
[13:36:24] <dlg> excellent
[13:36:37] <Giacox> I am running b69 on it
[13:36:41] <dlg> i never get any feedback on it
[13:36:49] <Giacox> with ufs and zfs
[13:36:50] <spoown> Does exists on solaris a package manager ? as apt-get or emerge by instance ?
[13:37:06] <Giacox> dlg, we talked about it one month ago
[13:37:15] <dlg> oh?
[13:37:23] <Giacox> I am SYS64738
[13:37:26] <Giacox> I send you some mails
[13:37:35] <dlg> oh yeah
[13:37:57] <Giacox> asking also how to make work zones in zfs with /usr/local in the global
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[13:38:23] <Giacox> I didn't understood that zfs cannot work if the global is in ufs
[13:38:58] <Giacox> I need to setup the third machine as log collector
[13:39:12] <Giacox> and I don't know if putting it solaris or linux
[13:39:27] <Giacox> the third has the controller a little bit different
[13:40:07] <dlg> solaris > linux
[13:40:38] <renihs> depends on purpose too :)
[13:40:40] <Giacox> yes but I already have two solaris box
[13:40:54] <Giacox> one third linux should be comfortable
[13:41:12] <Giacox> for example I have problems to compile simscan under solaris
[13:41:22] <Giacox> I need for qmail
[13:41:36] * dlg wince
[13:42:19] <Giacox> the controller in the third machine is
[13:42:20] <Giacox> 02:08.0 SCSI storage controller: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic SAS1068 PCI-X Fusion-MPT SAS (rev 01)
[13:42:26] <dlg> mpt
[13:42:38] <Giacox> I saw that bios is older then the other two servers
[13:43:36] <Giacox> does your driver will work with mpt ?
[13:43:56] <dlg> no, the mpt driver works on that hardware
[13:44:06] <dlg> which is part of solaris
[13:44:11] <dlg> linux works ok on it too
[13:44:38] <Giacox> ah ok
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[13:49:39] <Giacox> dlg, how can I do to see which controoler I have in the solaris server ?
[13:51:22] <Berny> prtconf or scanpci are useful
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[14:03:58] <tomww> /usr/X11/bin/scanpci -v
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[14:06:12] <Giacox> ah ok it's megaraid
[14:06:21] <Giacox> I didn't understood the differences
[14:06:24] <Giacox> good
[14:06:29] <Giacox> I go home
[14:06:31] <Giacox> by all
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[14:06:37] <Giacox> and thanks for helping
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[14:33:16] <sparcdr> damnit... brb
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[14:55:32] <sparcdr> there :)
[14:55:33] <sparcdr> sheesh
[14:55:36] <sparcdr> what's up?
[14:56:30] <tomww> ?
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[14:57:19] <sparcdr> i parted like 2 times
[14:57:31] <sparcdr> anyways I'm back (again^2)
[14:57:42] <sparcdr> just asking how everyone is :)
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[15:00:06] <Griffous> Better, now that I've had my fix of heroes and prison break for the week
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[15:02:34] <sparcdr> cool
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[15:17:38] * Tempt watches the new House episode
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[15:28:35] <sparcdr> :)
[15:28:43] <sparcdr> Tempt, gotta love his personality, such a prick
[15:28:55] <Gekz[PDA]> lol
[15:29:54] <Tempt> Like a sysadmin.
[15:30:49] <sparcdr> pretty much
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[15:34:58] <JoanaDoe> hi there. does somebody know if there is a possibility to merge two hard disk into one volume?
[15:35:44] <JoanaDoe> i am quite a newbie, maybe somebody can help me
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[15:40:12] <tachenko> hello, try to install nvidia driver:  sudo sh NVIDIA.... error: ./install: line 29: UID: readonly variable. why? thanks!!
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[15:45:00] <ShadowHntr> JoanaDoe: use ZFS perhaps...
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[15:46:16] <JoanaDoe> thx. i'll take a look at it
[15:46:26] <JoanaDoe> @ ShadowHntr
[15:46:35] <ShadowHntr> no prob
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[15:55:54] <sparcdr> tachenko, is sudo installed?
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[16:00:24] <CIA-26> rameshc: 6562152 px calls delay() with a spin mutex held
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[16:23:21] <Drone> Drone is currently online in #opensolaris and last spoke on Wed 19 Sep 2007 23:09 GMT, saying 'I've never seen cia-70 talk in #opensolaris.'.
[16:27:17] <Tempt> oh noes
[16:27:20] <Tempt> drone is back
[16:27:47] <Tempt> pkill -9 -u drone && userdel drone
[16:27:51] <WickedWicky> right so..
[16:28:04] <Tempt> hey
[16:28:11] <Tempt> Watched the new House yet?
[16:28:16] <WickedWicky> Season 4? no
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[16:28:23] <WickedWicky> what I do atm though, is funny
[16:28:40] <Tempt> hmm?
[16:28:42] <WickedWicky> I remember a discussion here where people asked why sun would give priority to the i386 based opensolaris line
[16:28:53] <WickedWicky> seeing the cool adds on www.sun.com I guess I know why :P
[16:29:07] <WickedWicky> "Introducing Sun's new innovate"
[16:29:19] <Tempt> hah.
[16:29:24] <WickedWicky> "Sun Fire systems available with quad core Xeon processor"
[16:29:31] <WickedWicky> last time i checked Xeon was very very Intel
[16:29:36] <Tempt> That's sad.
[16:29:45] <WickedWicky> not even AMD , but really Intel
[16:29:50] <Tempt> Indeed.
[16:30:14] <WickedWicky> it's add 1/3 for the interested
[16:30:16] <wesolows> it's not been any secret that we're going to be selling lots of hardware with either Intel or AMD CPUs
[16:30:22] <Tempt> Not to mention Sun teaming up with Microsoft.
[16:30:30] <Tempt> I mean, it all makes sense, but so anti-McNealy.
[16:30:31] <wesolows> and in the case of blade chassis, even a mix in the same chassis
[16:30:43] <WickedWicky> wesolows: which kinda voids asking why Sun would bother with i386
[16:30:50] <wesolows> huh?
[16:31:01] <wesolows> do you mean literally i386, like 18 years ago?
[16:31:12] <WickedWicky> last month or so some people here ranted about what should and shouldnt get priority, opensolaris and arch wise
[16:31:15] <WickedWicky> no
[16:31:16] <wesolows> or do you mean x86, as in why would we bother with it today?
[16:31:21] <WickedWicky> x86
[16:31:29] <wesolows> we've been down that path already
[16:31:34] <wesolows> see Solaris 8
[16:31:45] <wesolows> see also a 90% drop in market cap
[16:31:46] <wesolows> no thanks
[16:31:53] <Cyrille> that's never stopped things being discussed again :-)
[16:32:14] <wesolows> x86 is something customers want.  It would be silly not to offer it
[16:32:23] <WickedWicky> wesolows: I understand that
[16:32:41] <wesolows> and in terms of OpenSolaris, I'd guess that more than 2/3 of all OpenSolaris developers and SX?E users are on x86
[16:33:03] <wesolows> even discussing lowering its priority from equal to SPARC would be madness
[16:33:04] <Tempt> As long as SPARC machines are still around, I'm happy Sun have a profitable commodity hardware line
[16:33:11] <WickedWicky> but the persons argueing here that x86 developement should be put on a lower fire obviously dont agree/are ignorant or dont know about Sun's marketting :P
[16:33:34] <wesolows> look, you're all welcome to write code that works only on SPARC
[16:33:39] <wesolows> open source gives you that freedom
[16:34:09] <wesolows> but the engineering community (not Sun) has established that both platforms are equal and need to be supported where appropriate/possible
[16:34:20] <Teknix> and it took them years to get to this point
[16:34:26] <wesolows> and if we get a third platform, it'll be the same way
[16:34:35] <Teknix> I certainly never want to see it go back to the old dogma
[16:34:44] <WickedWicky> wesolows: dont get me wrong, I find it a good hting that both are supported
[16:34:50] <wesolows> s/platform/ISA/ above for those who are confused by my fuzzy use of terminology
[16:34:56] <WickedWicky> I am using both sparc and AMD/Intel
[16:35:58] <WickedWicky> and to be honest I think it'd be silly both self-hurting for Sun to stop Intel (compatible) support
[16:36:19] <wesolows> I personally find SPARC slow, expensive, and not terribly interesting, especially outside the Niagara line.  But I know we make money selling them, which means there are customers who like them and are happy with them.  Why tell people you won't give them what they want?  That's just dumb.
[16:36:39] <WickedWicky> xactly
[16:37:35] <iMax> well SPARC + solaris is still a good combination for a stable system
[16:37:52] <iMax> but in terms of performance I also prefer the newer x86 platform
[16:37:57] <Tempt> wesolows has different priorities.
[16:38:06] <Tempt> I'd say his dislike of SPARC is similar to his dislike of SANs.
[16:38:18] <WickedWicky> oh, there is an agenda? ;-)
[16:38:27] <Tempt> A preference for commodity hardware, that's all.
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[16:38:48] <WickedWicky> I don't know. I would have to do benchmarks to get to an opinion
[16:39:04] <WickedWicky> we buy Sparc cause of the proven stability in the past and the support we get from Sun
[16:40:20] <iMax> same here, although we use x86 based ones increasingly here
[16:40:39] <iMax> for frontend systems, not large backend systems
[16:40:47] <WickedWicky> we have HP Proliants and Sun, and some old Dell servers
[16:41:18] <wesolows> don't get me wrong, I love OBP and I love the SPARC ISA, but I find it too expensive for the performance you get.  And I've never forgotten that nearly all customers care about price/performance more than anything else
[16:41:47] <wesolows> I personally hate the !@#$!$! BIOS and wish it would die.  And the x86 ISA sucks rocks next to SPARC.
[16:42:09] <wesolows> But x86 sure does sell, and it ate our fucking lunch over the past 10 years.  Never forget.
[16:43:28] <iMax> it's good to have the choice, keeps most of us happy :)
[16:44:39] <WickedWicky> I love Sun/Sparc already for the boxes they use to ship ethernet cards
[16:44:40] <holcomb> death 2 the bios
[16:44:52] <WickedWicky> when you recieve the box you're like WOW!! this must be some quite something!
[16:45:04] <WickedWicky> then you open the box, lots of pop plastic... :P
[16:45:14] <Teknix> how about the boxes for power cords
[16:45:22] <Teknix> what a huge waste
[16:45:23] <Tempt> bloody hell
[16:45:26] <Tempt> give them quality hardware
[16:45:26] <holcomb> haha
[16:45:28] <Tempt> and they love the box
[16:45:39] <WickedWicky> I love the pop plastic
[16:45:43] <WickedWicky> good for annoying meetings
[16:45:44] <WickedWicky> :P
[16:46:17] <WickedWicky> the ethernet card wasnt very special either
[16:46:26] <WickedWicky> 3com chipset
[16:46:36] <WickedWicky> it was in the time I worked with E250s
[16:46:54] <Tempt> Hmm
[16:47:02] <Tempt> I don't think Sun have shipped a 3com ethernet card
[16:47:02] <Tempt> ever.
[16:47:07] <sparcdr> i have efi in here, which was chosen by apple because openfirmware (Similar to OpenBootPROM) features are lacking in BIOS (You can preload drivers before OS init too)
[16:47:14] <WickedWicky> if I recall correctly it was 3com
[16:47:19] <sparcdr> I hate bios too buggy crapola
[16:47:23] <WickedWicky> it was 2001 though, so I could be wrong
[16:47:31] <sparcdr> no it sounds right
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[16:47:49] <Tempt> and if you think the ethernet boxes were cool, you should get a load of the 880 box
[16:47:52] <Tempt> complete with little ramp
[16:47:54] <sparcdr> my ultra 60 was based on e250 board
[16:48:01] <Tempt> And Sun has *never* shipped a 3com card.
[16:48:04] <sparcdr> it was dated 2002 afaik
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[16:48:24] <sparcdr> Tempt, but they have used ATI crap :p
[16:48:35] <Tempt> sure
[16:48:50] <wesolows> no 3com ever afaik
[16:48:52] <sparcdr> no, creator ffb is based on ati
[16:48:55] <sommerfeld> Teknix: if the world agreed on what power cord to use, they'd be in the main box.
[16:49:00] <sparcdr> and it smelled bad when it was new
[16:49:45] <Tempt> Creator? based on ATI?
[16:50:00] <wesolows> You're thinking of the XVR-xxxx
[16:50:09] <wesolows> FFB/Creator was well before that
[16:50:12] <Tempt> Exactly.
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[16:50:59] <wesolows> sommerfeld: I do wonder though about how much packaging you use.  Almost to the point of asking the wwops people about it.
[16:51:05] <wesolows> s/you/we/
[16:51:27] <Tempt> The power cord packaging is a bit extreme
[16:52:07] <sommerfeld> Almost, but not quite :-)
[16:52:19] <wesolows> sommerfeld: Yeah, because I know they'll have some long-winded explanation. :-)
[16:52:36] <wesolows> It just seems like an opportunity to save money and reduce waste.
[16:53:09] <wesolows> And yet they've probably already got a 400-page study on it and have "proved" that it can't possibly be changed in any way.
[16:53:13] <Teknix> sommerfeld: i just mean that when we buy 10 machines, the amount of cardboard we have from powercords alone could fire a nuclear power plant for a week
[16:53:22] <sommerfeld> on the other hand, i've toured the fedex hub and seen what happens to under-packaged gear.
[16:53:35] <Tempt> The amount of committee time, meetings, paperwork, hassles and everything else probably exceeds the five-year saving
[16:53:35] <sommerfeld> a 5-pack or 10-pack for power cords would make a lot of sense
[16:53:35] <wesolows> Teknix: ?!!!  We're shipping cardboard with U-238 in it?!
[16:53:46] <Teknix> :)
[16:54:00] <sommerfeld> no, U-235 :-)
[16:54:06] <wesolows> Still...
[16:54:21] <wesolows> I would hope it's got nothing worse than traces of dioxins in it.
[16:54:48] <wesolows> Maybe Teknix has a Mr. Fusion power plant, though.
[16:54:54] <libkeiser> next thing you know, UPS drivers will be forced to wear dosimeters ;)
[16:55:13] <hile_> hahah
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[16:56:28] <Teknix> I should look and see how much of the cardboard in the boxes comes from recycled material
[16:56:35] <wesolows> no doubt it's a lot
[16:56:40] <Teknix> I would hope so
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[16:56:58] <Tempt> Mmm, Mr Fusion
[16:57:00] <Tempt> I need one of those.
[16:57:01] <wesolows> but it's better to reduce than reuse, and better to reuse than recycle
[16:57:01] <Teknix> especially given the whole green push
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[16:57:16] <Beket> Hello people. What is opensolaris ?
[16:57:31] <wesolows> A collection of operating system technology.
[16:57:49] <Beket> Thank you wesolows. How does opensolaris relate to solaris OS ?
[16:58:11] <wesolows> Solaris 11 is based on OpenSolaris.  Solaris 10 was its predecessor, and gave rise to OpenSolaris.
[16:58:32] <WickedWicky> SunSolve Error
[16:58:32] <WickedWicky>       You have encountered the following error(s) or warning(s):
[16:58:33] <WickedWicky>           o An application error has occurred. The error is logged for further analysis.
[16:58:34] <Cyrille> OpenSolaris started with code from Solaris (10) and is used as the base for the next version.
[16:58:35] <wesolows> Solaris 10 and 11 are Sun products that incorporate these technologies.  Other vendors offer their own products based on it as well.
[16:58:40] <WickedWicky> thanks sunsolve
[16:58:50] <bda> http://whacked.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/os_relationship.png
[16:58:55] <Cyrille> forced refresh sometimes helps.
[16:59:12] <WickedWicky> yea it works now
[16:59:14] <Cyrille> wait, it helps for docs.sun.com, don't know about sunsolve.
[16:59:14] <wesolows> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/about/faq/general_faq/
[16:59:20] <WickedWicky> it does
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[17:03:34] <Teknix> regarding the powercords, I think they must have done a study, because they stopped shipping mousepads with the keyboard kits.  So apparently this is sufficient to offset things
[17:03:55] <Tempt> really?
[17:04:00] <Tempt> No more mousemats in the country kits?
[17:04:03] <Tempt> What a stooge.
[17:04:07] <sparcdr> jds is sure shinier and less annoying in opensolaris :)
[17:04:17] <Tempt> (Although the last gen of mousemats suck, bring back the ol "Ultra Computing" ones)
[17:04:20] <sparcdr> more complete
[17:04:27] <sparcdr> i have one of those Tempt
[17:04:30] <sparcdr> Ultra Computing
[17:04:46] <Tempt> One on my desk right here.
[17:04:47] <wesolows> Teknix: yeah, those were nice.  But nothing came close to the fine-mesh metal mirror ones for the female mice.
[17:04:48] <sparcdr> it's purpleish
[17:04:49] <Tempt> with a trackball on it (!)
[17:04:54] <sparcdr> haha wesolows
[17:05:00] <sparcdr> stupid old sun laser mouses
[17:05:03] <Teknix> wesolows: yeah, I still have some of those
[17:05:04] * LeftWing has a Sun Ray mousepad.
[17:05:14] <wesolows> sparcdr: stupid?!  Those were *GREAT*!
[17:05:23] <wesolows> way ahead of their time, naturally
[17:05:32] <WickedWicky> I need a reflecting mousemat for my sun mouse
[17:05:37] <sparcdr> annoying when you had a type 5c and no mouse, had to use alluminum and mesh it out
[17:05:38] <WickedWicky> I'm using thinfoil at the moment
[17:05:41] <sparcdr> er no mousepad
[17:05:48] <sparcdr> it doesnt work worth a sh*t
[17:06:38] <sparcdr> got a modern laser mouse now, no complaints.  using that 5c laser was a pain, can't find the real mousepads
[17:06:51] <wesolows> well, that's bad yeah
[17:06:57] <wesolows> I probably have one around here somewhere still
[17:07:02] <Tempt> Well, the mice generally shipped with the mousemat
[17:07:13] <Tempt> You can download an image to print which works just as well though.
[17:07:16] <sparcdr> and no one sells them with a mousepad if you get it now
[17:07:19] <WickedWicky> yeah but the former owner of Pebbles didnt find pebbles as cute as I do
[17:07:20] <sparcdr> and no, it didnt work, i tried it
[17:07:31] <sparcdr> you need a special postscript printer
[17:08:30] <sponix> Its not fair, Solaris has a lot of things being released next month I would like to try :(
[17:08:44] <sommerfeld> glass tabletops seem to give the current generation of optical mice fits
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[17:09:01] *** stevel changes topic to "Latest SXCE 72 | Latest ON 74 | Starter kits:  http://get.opensolaris.org | Clipboard: http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/ | Twitter: http://twitter.com/opensolaris"
[17:10:11] <Tempt> special postscript printer?
[17:10:16] <Tempt> what makes it special?
[17:10:25] <WickedWicky> the metalic ink :p
[17:10:30] <Tempt> nah
[17:10:33] <Tempt> red/blue ink is all you need
[17:10:35] <WickedWicky> hence the :P
[17:10:36] <Tempt> It works fine.
[17:10:39] <sparcdr> uh, what
[17:10:42] <wesolows> the ability to print on a sheet of metal
[17:10:49] <sparcdr> if you have sxce you are pretty current
[17:10:51] <Tempt> It'll work fine on paper
[17:10:54] <wesolows> most feeders can't handle it
[17:11:18] <sparcdr> wesolows, yep, that's what happened here, using standard ink resulted in an exit code
[17:11:25] <sparcdr> it core dumped in the trashcan
[17:11:36] <sparcdr> aka i bought a mechanical one
[17:11:38] <sparcdr> :/
[17:12:02] <sparcdr> i like the type 7's, not as good as 5's but better than 6
[17:12:15] <sparcdr> referring to kbs that is
[17:12:16] <Tempt> logitech trackballs
[17:12:18] <wesolows> the buttons suck, but it's otherwise nice enough
[17:12:32] <sparcdr> Tempt, logitech needs to die, their quality is horrid
[17:12:32] <Tempt> And either IBM Model M keyboards or type 6s these days
[17:12:37] <Tempt> Huh?
[17:12:42] <wesolows> Teknix: IBM model M ++
[17:12:43] <Tempt> Nobody makes a better trackball than logitech
[17:12:48] <sparcdr> they fail a lot
[17:12:50] * wesolows is typing on a Model M right now
[17:12:56] <sparcdr> their products that is
[17:12:59] * Tempt is also typing on a model M
[17:13:05] <Tempt> I've had zero problems with Logitech products.
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[17:13:11] <sparcdr> im on a Das Keyboard II (Based on model M, with less weight and no letters, and black)
[17:13:14] <wesolows> Tempt: I wonder how much longer machines will have PS/2 keyboard ports for the Model M though
[17:13:14] <Tempt> Although I only use their trackballs and rodents.
[17:13:19] <sparcdr> ive had many of their kbs die on me
[17:13:24] <sparcdr> but their mice are okay :)
[17:13:26] <Tempt> Oh
[17:13:31] <Tempt> Neither of my machines do
[17:13:36] <Tempt> I'm on USB<>PS/2 converters
[17:13:42] <sparcdr> im native usb
[17:13:45] <wesolows> aren't those expensive?
[17:13:48] <Tempt> yeah
[17:13:49] <Tempt> $10
[17:13:52] <Tempt> au
[17:13:54] <sparcdr> no wesolows, converters are 6-9
[17:13:55] <sparcdr> USD
[17:14:00] <wesolows> all right then
[17:14:03] <Tempt> mine was inc shipping on ebay
[17:14:06] <wesolows> that's expensive for me thanks
[17:14:07] <sparcdr> cool Tempt
[17:14:10] <Tempt> Although apparently you can get them cheaper.
[17:14:10] <sparcdr> im talking local
[17:14:15] <sparcdr> but $6 is common
[17:14:18] * wesolows drains his 40 of Steel Reserve and heads off to work
[17:14:25] <sparcdr> depends how much you love your model m
[17:14:32] <Tempt> wesolows: ha.
[17:14:37] <sparcdr> i got a das keyboard cause it's basically a model m, with usb
[17:14:45] <Tempt> I wish someone in Australia would import the Das Keyboard
[17:14:48] <sparcdr> same feel, same buckling springs
[17:14:54] <sparcdr> Tempt, ebay?
[17:15:01] <Tempt> shipping cost
[17:15:05] <sparcdr> ah
[17:15:11] <Tempt> I'm paying $US40+ to ship a fucking keyboard.
[17:15:13] <sparcdr> yeah they are $89, steep as is
[17:15:30] <sparcdr> but they have 50mln keystroke warrenty and gold plated components
[17:15:41] <sparcdr> standard kb is around 15mln
[17:15:54] <sparcdr> my model m still works, but no converters work with it
[17:15:57] <sparcdr> it's 20 years old :D
[17:16:00] <Tempt> wow
[17:16:06] <Tempt> You've had bad converter luck then
[17:16:16] <sparcdr> yeah, what i get for being a cheapass
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[17:16:33] <sparcdr> i wasnt cheap on this kb, and im happy, worth the 10 hours of work
[17:16:34] <Tempt> I'd like a buckling spring keyboard with the left function keys
[17:16:41] <sparcdr> aha!
[17:16:45] <sparcdr> yes, the sun function keys :D
[17:16:47] <sommerfeld> we need to lobby das keyboard to do a sun-layout keyboard
[17:16:52] <Tempt> Mmmm
[17:16:54] <sparcdr> hmm
[17:17:02] <Tempt> I need those function keys. I couldn't live without them now.
[17:17:03] <sparcdr> another company makes model m's
[17:17:10] <sparcdr> one sec ill tell you the name, they make custom ones too
[17:17:16] <Tempt> lexmark made buckling spring keyboards with 160 keys or similar
[17:17:19] <Tempt> lots of extra function goo.
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[17:17:22] <sparcdr> be prepared to pay uber bucks though
[17:17:29] <Tempt> I've got one here, but it needs a new cable.
[17:17:42] <Tempt> (and a serious cleanout)
[17:17:45] <Tempt> (and some minor repairs)
[17:17:47] <sparcdr> Tempt, hence why i got das kb, it's the norm to have craptasic membrane with shiny buttons to sell them
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[17:18:10] <Tempt> I got a quote from the people that bought up IBM's keyboard business
[17:18:25] <Tempt> for a simple custom colour job it was going to cost around $US200 per unit
[17:18:33] <sparcdr> blah
[17:18:36] <Tempt> and then das keyboard came out with almost what I wanted.
[17:18:59] <sparcdr> http://www.pckeyboard.com/adobepage.html
[17:19:20] <sparcdr> this is the last company to make model m's without changing things
[17:19:29] <Tempt> Yes
[17:19:35] <Tempt> pckeyboard.com bought their stuff from IBM.
[17:19:39] <sparcdr> yeah
[17:19:50] <sparcdr> they have neat custom designs :) but too pricey
[17:20:25] <sparcdr> Card readers, colored keycaps, remapped keys, logos, etc.
[17:20:52] * sparcdr pets #opensolaris with magical sparcdr spells
[17:20:52] <sparcdr> :D
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[17:23:41] <eboutilier> I'm trying a happy hacking keyboard. I think I like it. Just got it yesterday. Main feature I wanted: no numberpad
[17:23:48] <sparcdr> haha
[17:24:01] <sparcdr> i must have numpad, im nubpad without one
[17:24:04] <eboutilier> My right hand only has to travel a couple inches to get to the mouse
[17:24:08] <Teknix> i used to use the type 5s on my pc
[17:24:32] <Tempt> ouch
[17:24:35] <sparcdr> ;/
[17:24:38] <Tempt> my girlfriend is bidding on a giant rs/6000
[17:24:41] <sparcdr> function keys are useless in that usage
[17:24:44] <eboutilier> It also has two usb ports and dip switches for custom settings. And the control key in the correct place.
[17:24:44] <Tempt> damn ebay
[17:24:47] <sparcdr> Tempt, why?
[17:25:00] <Tempt> She's got a new job which mandates learning some AIX.
[17:25:03] <sparcdr> eboutilier, you mean where caps is?
[17:25:04] <eboutilier> In fact there's no caps lock key at all, which makes sense.
[17:25:05] <libkeiser> what do you mean by "giant"?
[17:25:08] <sparcdr> Tempt, sob
[17:25:15] <Tempt> libkeiser: Not really giant.
[17:25:15] <sparcdr> heavy and HUGE
[17:25:21] <Tempt> libkeiser: quite small on the scale of things
[17:25:22] <libkeiser> to me, "giant" would be like a p595 :P
[17:25:24] <eboutilier> sparcdr: yes
[17:25:33] <Tempt> F80
[17:25:34] <sparcdr> libkeiser, SGI Onyx :D
[17:25:50] <libkeiser> funny you should mention the onyx. i just picked up an o2k yesterday
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[17:25:54] <hile_> i need a something that's Power4
[17:26:00] <Tempt> Mmm, same here
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[17:26:01] <sparcdr> i have an Octane2 myself
[17:26:02] <Tempt> AIX6.1
[17:26:03] <Tempt> gimmeh
[17:26:21] <sparcdr> haha, reminds me of people still buying alphas
[17:26:24] <sparcdr> it's useless
[17:26:40] * libkeiser concurs on the power4. they're so hard to find, i'm thinking of buying a low end p5 brand new
[17:26:42] <Tempt> I meant gimmeh to the p510, not the SGI box.
[17:26:42] <sparcdr> was good for a long run now it's just obsolete
[17:26:52] <sparcdr> i dont have a p510
[17:27:08] <Tempt> libkeiser: If you fill in the forms as an IBM partner, the discounting is 60% for a dev box
[17:27:14] <sparcdr> wow
[17:27:29] <sparcdr> how much do they cost for a low end model?
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[17:27:37] <Tempt> www.ibm.com
[17:27:46] <Tempt> But then you'll have the experience in dealing with IBM
[17:27:52] <Tempt> since your reseller can't get you those discounts
[17:28:09] <Tempt> and that's why I don't own a p510, because dealing with IBM put me off damn quickly.
[17:28:43] <sparcdr> ibm would not sell to me
[17:28:55] <sparcdr> they said your name is sparcdr, go away
[17:29:03] <Tempt> heh.
[17:30:15] <Tempt> Anyway, I'll get POWER5 to play with at my new job
[17:30:22] <Tempt> and I'll munch on the AIX 6.1 and enjoy it
[17:30:32] <sparcdr> work paying?
[17:30:38] <Tempt> lab machine
[17:30:44] <sparcdr> ah
[17:30:45] <libkeiser> enjoy the dtrace clone...err probevue
[17:30:57] <Tempt> Mm
[17:30:59] <Tempt> and WPARs
[17:31:08] <Tempt> Hopefully there's more than one so I can do live migrations
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[17:31:14] <sparcdr> I munch on Sun bricks
[17:31:23] <Tempt> I munch on all UNIX bricks.
[17:31:34] <sparcdr> yeah
[17:31:52] <Tempt> But I get paid to know about Solaris and AIX bricks, so they're my favourite bricks.
[17:32:09] <sparcdr> I don't play with lincoln logs (linux)
[17:33:08] <Tempt> linux != UNIX
[17:33:28] <sparcdr> again, lincoln logs
[17:33:31] <sparcdr> tonka toys
[17:33:35] <sparcdr> kidbricks
[17:34:11] <sparcdr> it sure tries to be UNIX, pos
[17:35:08] <Tempt> I understand UNIX is currently defined as Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, MacOS
[17:35:15] <sparcdr> yep
[17:35:21] <sparcdr> IRIX too
[17:35:39] <Tempt> IRIX last certified to UNIX 95 with 6.5.28
[17:35:46] <Tempt> They've not renewed.
[17:35:46] <sparcdr> even though sgi sucked on the linux lolly and got rammed in the butt
[17:35:51] <sparcdr> so?
[17:35:54] <Tempt> probably because SGI went titsup.com
[17:35:57] <sparcdr> im using 6.5.26m
[17:36:01] <Tempt> and died the same death as all linux vendors
[17:36:13] <sparcdr> obviously, they became a commodity
[17:36:38] <Tempt> Well, they either had to port IRIX to another architecture or find a new OS
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[17:36:47] <Tempt> They took the cheap option, probably because they were already hitting the limits.
[17:36:48] <sparcdr> they lost it when they sold alias ip and gave in
[17:36:51] <sparcdr> no it wont happen
[17:36:56] <sparcdr> they will not ever be true unix again
[17:37:15] <sparcdr> they werent hitting the limits, look at power how long it too to push 3ghz
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[17:37:18] <sparcdr> it still did it
[17:37:36] <sparcdr> and mips is still a better architecture than itanium.  Itanium even borrowed features.
[17:37:51] <sparcdr> they hardcoded too much mips-specific stuff in irix, which is why they ditched it
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[17:38:06] <Tempt> MIPS was a great chip, but they were hitting architectural and design limitations which wasn't going to keep scaling up.
[17:38:07] <sparcdr> they wanted out of mips but had to sack all the smart people and made a dumb decision
[17:38:27] <sparcdr> was?!  my r12k outdoes a 3ghz p4
[17:38:45] <sparcdr> and it's 7.5x slower in clock
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[17:39:01] <sparcdr> scaling up to linux, yikes
[17:39:11] <sparcdr> well their fault wasn't all technical, it was budgeting
[17:39:12] <Tempt> nope.
[17:39:18] <Tempt> They decided to scale right out the door
[17:39:21] <Tempt> and into the can
[17:39:25] <sparcdr> cool
[17:39:28] <sparcdr> :)
[17:39:33] <sparcdr> and their pricing was outrageous
[17:39:50] <sparcdr> 5k for MIPSpro compilers, 5k for support contract, 57k for a low end Octane2
[17:40:06] <sparcdr> Sun at the time was still 3x cheaper
[17:40:25] <Triskelios> I maintain that the real success of Itanium was in destroying all the other processor vendors
[17:40:27] <Tempt> Sun has always been the cheap UNIX vendor
[17:40:41] <Tempt> Alpha, now that was a fine CPU.
[17:40:43] <sparcdr> yeah, still equal hardware quality :)
[17:40:50] <Tempt> Too bad it got eaten by a printer company.
[17:40:53] <sparcdr> alpha also hit a roadblock, not technical, financial
[17:40:55] <Tempt> ink company, even.
[17:40:59] <sommerfeld> Triskelios: indeed.  itanium was a strategic success for intel before they shipped their first chip.
[17:41:00] <sparcdr> haha
[17:41:25] <Tempt> Itanic
[17:41:35] <sparcdr> sommerfeld, they wanted to get rid of x86 13 years or so ago, but no one would adopt it, and their still struggling to make it cheaper and more ubituous
[17:41:38] <Tempt> They still can't sell the stupid things.
[17:41:50] <sparcdr> it sunk like a stinking dumpster going into the Mariana Trench
[17:42:06] <Tempt> To be honest, I've seen some impressive benchmarks for modern Itanic machines
[17:42:16] <sparcdr> Same, SPEC's top ones are Itanic
[17:42:32] <sparcdr> but it's not price effective or competitive, it's literal rape on price due to lack of adoption
[17:42:33] <Tempt> Sadly, the only vendor pushing them hard is HP, and HP's customers aren't particular happy about arch changes
[17:42:42] <Tempt> oh
[17:42:43] <Tempt> and HP-UX
[17:42:48] <Tempt> That's enough to put most people off.
[17:42:48] <sparcdr> o.o
[17:42:51] <sparcdr> sad
[17:42:54] <sparcdr> smells bad too
[17:43:02] <libkeiser> well, they dumped DUX, even though it was technically superior. gotta love HP
[17:43:10] <Tempt> Mmm
[17:43:15] <sparcdr> rather deal with solaris' oddities than HP-UX
[17:43:24] <Tempt> They could have kept selling Alpha with Tru64 and OpenVMS for years
[17:43:28] <Tempt> with happy customers
[17:43:32] <Tempt> and TruCluster
[17:43:35] <sparcdr> I loved OpenVMS, for being not UNIX
[17:43:38] <sparcdr> but yeah :/
[17:43:40] <Tempt> But Carly took care of that.
[17:43:52] <Tempt> Hmm, I really must fire up this AlphaServer.
[17:43:55] <sparcdr> im happy non-customer, because of just that
[17:45:18] <sparcdr> cool
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[18:07:04] <joanie> hey.  I just upgraded to Vermillion 75 after bfu'ing to ON 74 and jds no longer starts.  I'm getting an error regarding libexpat which, according to one of the forums, was updated ON 73.  So... Am I f'ed?  Any ideas/suggestions/things I should be reading? :-)
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[18:10:26] <alanc> You need the new libexpat from SFW - bfu is not enough
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[18:10:50] <joanie> alanc gotcha
[18:11:27] <joanie> alanc is this something I can grab myself or do I need to wait for 73 to become publicly available?
[18:11:31] <alanc> the last mail on desktop-discuss said they were trying to find out if they could post that package from SFW until SXCE 73 is out
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[18:12:03] <joanie> alanc I saw that but didn't realize having bfu'ed to 74 wasn't sufficient
[18:12:19] <Teknix>  I have a jumpstart begin script that sets up zfs boot.  Everything goes well and when the machine reboots, it comes up into the grub command line, despite having an appropriate menu.lst in the top-level of the pool  (my setup is based on the ZFS boot manual instructions)
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[18:12:47] <Teknix> trying to boot from grub gives "Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0xbf"
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[18:14:45] <joanie> alanc do you think it's safe to just downgrade to Vermillion 74 or would that hose me further?
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[18:19:47] <sparcdr> i'd downgrade
[18:19:51] <sparcdr> im using b74
[18:20:31] <joanie> sparcdr: Okay thanks!  I'll give it a try.
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[18:20:48] <sparcdr> i wouldnt think it'd break a lot :0
[18:21:21] <joanie> sparcdr: that's okay, I enjoy failsafe xterms.  They're like so retro ;-)
[18:21:35] <sparcdr> what in all did you upgrade?  w_win?
[18:21:42] <alanc> I'd try downgrading, but never tried going back myself
[18:21:44] <sparcdr> so is cde :p
[18:21:51] <sparcdr> *x_win
[18:22:01] <joanie> sparcdr me?
[18:22:06] <sparcdr> yeah
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[18:23:09] <joanie> sparcdr, All I did is bfu to 74 (thinking that 74 would meet the snv_73 or greater requirement) and then updated vermillion to 75 from.... I'm not sure at this point.  72 or 73
[18:23:33] <sparcdr> er.  yeah
[18:23:56] <sparcdr> that's upgrading from to not saying it's gonna be safe to go back and forth, but tell me how it goes
[18:24:43] <joanie> so pardon the newbie question, but when I see "snv_xx" that is not the same as "on_xx"?
[18:24:48] <Fish-> hello
[18:24:59] <sparcdr> yep
[18:25:07] <joanie> yep it's not? :-)
[18:25:18] <sparcdr> ON_73 is not the same as Vermillion_73
[18:25:31] <joanie> right
[18:25:43] <joanie> I thought that ON was Nevada
[18:25:49] <sparcdr> ON means kernel and associated libraries, and x_win, jds, sfw are all different builds, trying to all be the same
[18:25:50] <sparcdr> no
[18:25:53] <sparcdr> ON is the kernel and such
[18:25:59] <joanie> Then what is Nevada?
[18:26:00] <sparcdr> Nevada is the codename
[18:26:07] <sparcdr> It's the codename for Solaris 11
[18:26:43] <sparcdr> it's essentially the distribution itself, not exactly since there's SXDE and SXCE, which are both based on Nevada (As a whole)
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[18:27:01] * joanie chuckles
[18:27:20] <sparcdr> blah confusing, of course
[18:27:20] <sparcdr> :)
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[18:29:26] <joanie> sparcdr, well, I feel less confused after your explanation than I did before so thank you :-)
[18:29:32] <sparcdr> haha
[18:29:33] <sparcdr> :)
[18:29:34] <sparcdr> I try
[18:29:50] <sparcdr> but look at topic, you'll see what I mean, version drift, it'll not always be in parity
[18:29:54] <joanie> I'm one of those who is transitioning from linux
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[18:30:02] <sparcdr> I can help, so can many here
[18:30:12] <sparcdr> so ask away, don't be afraid to use Sun's docs, they help even with OpenSolaris
[18:30:31] <sparcdr> Good news, my sun box is coming TODAY!
[18:30:44] <sparcdr> On FedEx vehicle for delivery
[18:30:45] <Triskelios> joanie: I can give you a copy of the b73 libexpat
[18:30:50] <sparcdr> :)
[18:31:01] <joanie> Triskelios: my new best friend! :-)
[18:31:16] <sparcdr> Trident, fun stuff when upgrading x_win without following all of the instructions, libcomposite symbols missing
[18:31:20] <sparcdr> er Triskelios
[18:31:28] <sparcdr> tab complete doesnt work always with sparcdr
[18:31:42] <hile_> sparcdr - what did you get?
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[18:33:37] <sparcdr> hile_, http://shop.sun.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/Sun_NorthAmerica-Sun_Store_US-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewStandardCatalog-Browse?CategoryName=Sun_Blade_2500_Work&CategoryDomainName=Sun_NorthAmerica-Sun_Store_US-SunCatalog Config 3
[18:34:03] <Triskelios> joanie: http://trisk.acm.jhu.edu/SUNWlexpt.i386.pkg
[18:34:21] <joanie> Triskelios: thank you VERY much!
[18:34:38] <sparcdr> I'm about to upgrade to ON_73 (I don't have latest bits, will get them later) is there any major problems I should look out for?
[18:35:01] <sparcdr> SXDE 04/04 (B64a) -> ON_73
[18:36:17] <Triskelios> that's quite a leap, doubt your userspace will be completely happy (check flag days?)
[18:36:27] <sparcdr> sure.. I will
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[18:36:43] <sparcdr> I believe 4 versions is pushing it
[18:36:50] <sparcdr> I'm doing 9 :)
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[18:37:07] <sparcdr> worth my time to fiddle though
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[18:37:34] <Triskelios> well, you're kinda screwed if e.g. HAL just coredumps or something
[18:37:54] <sparcdr> looks fine no big flags that affect what I do
[18:38:51] <sparcdr> im upgrading ON, not hal, unless hal is part of ON
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[18:39:46] <Triskelios> yeah, but a number of userspace daemons tend to be finicky about your kernel
[18:40:02] <sparcdr> we'll see :)
[18:40:22] <sparcdr> ah shite
[18:40:26] <sparcdr> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/pages/2007051702/
[18:40:52] <sparcdr> it IS 64, not from BFU :(
[18:40:55] <Triskelios> you have 64a
[18:40:59] <sparcdr> yeah
[18:41:04] <sparcdr> but 64 or later it says
[18:41:12] <Triskelios> "A fix is in snv_64a"
[18:41:13] <sparcdr> aha
[18:41:15] <sparcdr> i see
[18:42:07] <sparcdr> sun studio and pam are what I need to worry about
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[18:44:26] <joanie> Triskelios: that did the trick.  Thank you again so much!
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[18:52:21] <sparcdr> hey jcsmith
[18:52:24] <sparcdr> er jcmp
[18:52:29] <sparcdr> damn
[18:52:32] <sparcdr> not fast enough :)
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[18:53:32] <sparcdr> anyone care to explain to me what kind of things xVM supports?
[18:54:20] <sparcdr> nevermind found the Flag day page for it
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[19:01:02] <alanc> "Xen" things
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[19:04:37] <sparcdr> alanc, I know
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[19:04:46] <sparcdr> I was curious of the progress
[19:05:07] <sparcdr> I now know after looking at flag days and the document
[19:05:14] <sparcdr> getting there, pretty quickly :)
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[19:09:00] <sponix> sommerfeld: aye
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[19:52:28] <z1pp1ty> i've got a stupid networking question
[19:52:48] <z1pp1ty> just installed SXCE and set my IP, but my routing doesn't appear to be working
[19:52:50] <Stric> there are no stupid questions.. (only stupid peop.. err..)
[19:53:01] <z1pp1ty> can't get outside my network
[19:53:40] <z1pp1ty> I did route add default `my gateway ip`
[19:54:14] <z1pp1ty> dig yahoo.com works
[19:54:32] <z1pp1ty> ping yahoo.com says unknown host...
[19:54:33] <Stric> so 'netstat -rn' will say something like:  default      gatewayip  UG 1 something
[19:54:55] <Stric> ah. does /etc/resolv.conf have any 'server someip' line?
[19:55:07] <Stric> or, can you ping 130.239.40.40 for instance?
[19:55:09] <Triskelios> z1pp1ty: check netstat -rn
[19:55:29] <Triskelios> z1pp1ty: this is a static configuration (not DHCP?)
[19:55:48] <z1pp1ty> was dhcp, tried to change it to static
[19:56:00] <WickedWicky> cat /etc/resolv.conf
[19:56:25] <Triskelios> WickedWicky: his problem is routing, he still has a valid (presumably local) DNS server
[19:56:28] <WickedWicky> and: grep hosts /etc/nsswitch.conf
[19:56:42] <z1pp1ty> http://pastie.caboo.se/101112
[19:57:06] <WickedWicky> you have two default gateways
[19:57:08] <z1pp1ty> .245 is my IP
[19:57:15] <z1pp1ty> .254 is default gateway
[19:57:20] <Triskelios> z1pp1ty: remove the .245 default gateway setting
[19:57:32] <Triskelios> it's overriding the other one
[19:57:41] <WickedWicky> route -net delete default 192.168.1.245
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[19:58:45] <z1pp1ty> k, i've deleted that, but still not getting out
[19:59:10] <WickedWicky> can you ping your nameserver?
[19:59:17] <WickedWicky> or default gateway at all
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[20:00:02] <z1pp1ty> http://pastie.caboo.se/101114
[20:00:11] <WickedWicky> yea
[20:00:14] <WickedWicky> you dont resolv
[20:00:15] <Triskelios> z1pp1ty: svcadm enable dns/client
[20:00:18] <WickedWicky> change it to this
[20:00:21] <WickedWicky> hosts: files dns
[20:00:30] <Triskelios> WickedWicky: enabling dns/client will replace resolv.conf
[20:00:43] <WickedWicky> then: svcadm restart name-service-cache:default
[20:00:51] <WickedWicky> look at his nsswitch.conf
[20:01:02] <WickedWicky> it just uses /etc/hosts to resolve, not dns
[20:01:03] <Triskelios> err
[20:01:04] <WickedWicky> this is a classic
[20:01:07] <Triskelios> replace nsswitch.conf
[20:01:21] <WickedWicky> but he wants to use static addresses
[20:01:30] <z1pp1ty> working!
[20:01:33] <Triskelios> WickedWicky: dns/client is the accepted way to do that
[20:01:33] <WickedWicky> so you need to setup nsswitch.conf properly, I guarantee you
[20:01:37] <WickedWicky> yea
[20:01:38] <WickedWicky> well
[20:01:41] <WickedWicky> it fails miserably
[20:01:42] <WickedWicky> for both him
[20:01:43] <WickedWicky> me
[20:01:46] <WickedWicky> and everybody at work
[20:01:55] <z1pp1ty> why would that not be in there by default?
[20:02:00] <Triskelios> WickedWicky: how do you know it fails for him?
[20:02:05] <WickedWicky> cause now it works?
[20:02:06] <Triskelios> z1pp1ty: dhcp manages it seperately
[20:02:16] <WickedWicky> Triskelios: he does not want to use dhcp
[20:02:20] <Triskelios> WickedWicky: he didn't have the service enabled
[20:02:25] <Triskelios> WickedWicky: this has NOTHING to do with DHCP
[20:02:27] <Stric> WickedWicky: but started out with dhcp
[20:02:38] <Stric> which means that it was handled separately
[20:04:18] <WickedWicky> I see
[20:04:29] <z1pp1ty> so should I do something else?
[20:04:43] <Triskelios> z1pp1ty: if it works now, it's fine
[20:04:48] <z1pp1ty> good deal
[20:04:58] <z1pp1ty> I gotta run to a lunch meeting
[20:05:01] <z1pp1ty> thanks guys!
[20:05:02] <WickedWicky> eat well
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[20:06:51] <WickedWicky> so for my own curiousity, is this new prefered thingy documented anywhere? cause I can tell you that 99% here (here being the ppl I know) coming from solaris 8/9 still do the nsswitch thingy
[20:07:53] <WickedWicky> and even the solaris 10 course I had mentioned nsswitch if I recall correctly
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[20:09:02] <Stric> WickedWicky: enabling dns/client will poke nsswitch.conf
[20:09:16] <Stric> with the settings you wanted to do
[20:10:05] <Triskelios> what is actually does is switch between nssswitch.{files,dns,nis}
[20:10:16] <WickedWicky> aha
[20:10:24] <Triskelios> and no, there doesn't appear to be documentation for it
[20:10:38] <Triskelios> (the default is nsswitch.files)
[20:11:18] <WickedWicky> I feel a blog moment coming up
[20:12:10] <WickedWicky> Triskelios: thanks
[20:12:11] <WickedWicky> :)
[20:12:23] <WickedWicky> Stric: tag :)
[20:13:16] * Triskelios really wants a man page describing what all of the services are
[20:13:56] <Triskelios> stuff like svc:/network/rpc-100235_1/rpc_ticotsord is really egregious
[20:14:09] <wesolows> everyone knows what ticotsord is for though
[20:14:12] <cmihai> Just read the SMF manifests.
[20:14:44] <WickedWicky> wesolows: sorry to disapoint you :P
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[20:14:56] <wesolows> there's even a man page for it
[20:15:03] <cmihai>  /lib/svc/method -> read stuff here
[20:15:04] <wesolows> not that anyone can really understand it
[20:15:05] <WickedWicky> then I'll man it
[20:15:15] <wesolows> it tells you about TCO_PEERNOROOMONQ
[20:15:22] <wesolows> which should be obvious to anyone, but hey
[20:15:32] <cmihai> And: /var/svc/manifest
[20:15:52] <Triskelios> wesolows: the service doesn't even have a <documentation> section
[20:16:01] <wesolows> Triskelios: No, it's autoconverted from inetd.conf
[20:16:08] <Triskelios> ahh
[20:16:10] <holcomb> how will you know if it's ticlts, ticots, or ticotsord?
[20:16:14] <wesolows> see inetconv(1M)
[20:16:27] <wesolows> holcomb: And more important, why would I care?
[20:16:30] <holcomb> :)
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[20:16:57] <wesolows> we use ticots for all our services because it's more reliable
[20:17:10] <wesolows> ticlts just doesn't get the job done sometimes
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[20:48:39] <coffman> if latest on is 74, where is b73?
[20:49:57] <Triskelios> coffman: to be released in a day or two
[20:50:20] <Triskelios> coffman: ON != snv
[20:50:43] <Triskelios> snv_74 will probably be ready soon if it isn't already, though
[20:51:55] <e^ipi> what happened to 73, anyways?
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[20:53:37] <coffman> maybe they burned it
[20:53:58] <coffman> any major hollidays in the us these days?
[20:54:28] <Triskelios> e^ipi: is it late? I forgot when 72 came out
[20:54:41] <Triskelios> coffman: I have b73 but it's not released
[20:54:44] <e^ipi> *shrug*
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[20:59:14] <alanc> snv_74 iso's came out a couple hours ago internally, but it usually takes a week for them to go external
[21:00:17] <CIA-26> joycey: 6591788 Need nxge 32bit driver for x86 to support PXE boot (fix lint)
[21:00:39] <Triskelios> the usual schedule is every other Friday
[21:00:48] <coffman> i wonder when ever you get those sse error fixed. its in since b66 ( http://onetruth.blogsome.com/2007/09/19/solaris-express-not-working-on-non-sse-x86-machines/ )
[21:01:50] <Triskelios> snv_73 is from the 12th, so the release is probably a week late
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[21:02:38] <Triskelios> coffman: I would email Darren to see what happened
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[21:04:07] <coffman> i have to tell the people all the time that it will be fixed "soon", sux
[21:04:34] <Berny> hmm, how do i find out if my cpu supports xen hvm? which feature am i looking for in the isainfo output?
[21:05:22] <coffman> not so funny if you are on a con, make a speach, and people ask you if they can test it on there p3 or something
[21:05:42] <Triskelios> coffman: P3s support SSE
[21:05:52] <cmihai> Berny,  vt, pacifica, depends on CPU. What CPU do you have? Core 2 has it, Xeon based core 2 has it, the new opterons have it...
[21:06:10] <Triskelios> coffman: P2s and old Athlons don't...
[21:06:28] <Triskelios> coffman: those systems tend to not have enough memory to be useful anyway
[21:06:36] <cmihai> Check bios too Berny, some systems disable it
[21:06:39] <Berny> cmihai: dual core opterons
[21:06:48] <cmihai> You have it.
[21:06:55] <Berny> 2.6ghz in a x2200m2
[21:07:25] <cmihai> Models would have been more usefull, but trust me, you have Pacifica :-)
[21:07:26] <Berny> authenticAMD 40F12 family 15 model 65
[21:07:53] <coffman> Triskelios: i consider a sockel A amd with ~1ghz and 512mb fine enough, and i know a couple of people that use epia boards for there home servers
[21:08:02] <Berny> d'oh next line says opteron 2218 8-)
[21:08:19] <e^ipi> hmm... this... probably shouldn't be
[21:08:24] <cmihai> That's what I'm looking for.
[21:08:32] <cmihai> 2 way heh
[21:08:35] <e^ipi> i've got a couple dozen instances of httpd running on account of ipp
[21:08:53] <Berny> very well... all i gotta do is wait for build 75 to appear :-)
[21:08:55] <the-decider> sounds about right.
[21:08:59] <Berny> and then some fun
[21:09:12] <e^ipi> actually, make that 150
[21:09:17] <the-decider> more than a few
[21:09:23] <Triskelios> e^ipi: okay, that's not right
[21:09:38] <the-decider> what port are they listening on?
[21:10:06] <Berny> .oO(su - ipp -c kill -9 -1)
[21:10:12] <e^ipi> ipp
[21:10:26] <Triskelios> Berny: ipp is a service, not a user
[21:10:29] <e^ipi> Berny: then my printer will stop working
[21:10:34] <Berny> yeah yeah
[21:10:37] <e^ipi> which is not what I'm going for here
[21:10:43] <Berny> it's late here
[21:10:51] <Berny> been to ikea today ...
[21:10:55] <elektronkind_> pkill -u ipp httpd
[21:10:57] <Berny> need more coffee
[21:11:10] <e^ipi> oh
[21:11:12] <elektronkind_> need more PKILL
[21:11:15] <e^ipi> oh, this must be it...
[21:11:22] <e^ipi> maxclients = 150
[21:11:22] <the-decider> less cowbell?
[21:11:32] <e^ipi> it's forking off one instance per client it seems
[21:11:37] <Triskelios> e^ipi: I was about to ask. but it only starts one server by default
[21:11:39] <elektronkind_> hmm. Solaris could do with a cowbell command of some sort
[21:11:40] <Berny> e^ipi: print via ftp 8-)
[21:11:54] <Triskelios> e^ipi: er, one server and one spare
[21:11:55] <the-decider> elektronkind_: time for an ARC case? ;)
[21:11:56] <e^ipi> Triskelios: appears that it starts all the servers
[21:12:13] <Triskelios> e^ipi: interesting
[21:12:19] <the-decider> "integration of /dev/cowbell and associated managmenet utilities"
[21:12:26] <elektronkind_> maxclients is just an upper limit
[21:12:37] <Triskelios> e^ipi: just checked, only two processes here
[21:12:39] <elektronkind_> you want to look at startservers and maxservers
[21:12:50] <Triskelios> maybe your clients are sending too many requests
[21:13:15] <elektronkind_> yeah, if you maxclients is 150 and you have 150 httpd procs spinning out there, you're undercapacity
[21:13:16] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[21:13:22] <emiel_> Can someone give me some pointers on the state of packages on OpenSolaris?
[21:13:25] <wesolows> what does cowbell do?  google doesn't seem to know
[21:13:41] <the-decider> *ding*
[21:13:43] <coffman> Triskelios: i find it quite strange that there is all this buzz about open up for the linux-devs and stuff and there is a bug since b66 that prevents opensolaris from booting on a big amount of systems
[21:13:48] <e^ipi> elektronkind_: my laptop + my blade1k + my wife's mac mini < 150
[21:13:53] <elektronkind_> wesolows: it's a musician's joke. "Needs more cowbell"
[21:13:54] <Triskelios> emiel_: what do you want to know specifically?
[21:13:59] <sommerfeld> more cowbell!
[21:14:06] <libkeiser> i've got a fever...
[21:14:07] <cmihai> wesolows, more /dev/cowbell
[21:14:08] <elektronkind_> see, sommerfeld is in on it
[21:14:13] <cmihai> sommerfeld, oy, don't steal my thunder! :P
[21:14:27] * wesolows is confused but that's ok since it's obviously a joke
[21:14:43] <emiel_> I'm using sunfreeware.com at the moment for most of my packages. I'm going to build a package and it has some dependencies. Are there any other sources. What's going to happen with Indiana?
[21:14:45] <cmihai> wesolows, wikipedia more cowbel
[21:14:46] <Triskelios> coffman: if you mean the indiana distro, that isn't done yet, and the issue is a build tools problem affecting current builds
[21:14:49] <wesolows> emiel_: ON package builds don't work in the open-only tree yet.
[21:14:53] <elektronkind_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_cowbell
[21:15:03] <wesolows> emiel_: Not sure if that's what you're asking - other consolidations are all-open, so they don't have that problem.
[21:15:18] <sommerfeld> I actually heard a conductor ask for more cowbell in a community orchestra rehearsal early this summer...
[21:15:19] <wesolows> thanks
[21:15:34] <the-decider> elektronkind_: ifconfig cowbell0:1 plumb ?
[21:15:43] <cmihai> sommerfeld, that must've given a few distinct individuals a good lough.
[21:15:45] <emiel_> wesolows: I'm sorry I don't follow.
[21:16:08] <elektronkind_> the-decider: well you can actually have a "cowbell0" interface with the clearview project's vanity interface names comes along :)
[21:16:14] <elektronkind_> s/with/when
[21:16:17] <Pietro_S> emiel_: which package are you creating?
[21:16:33] <Triskelios> emiel_: ON is the core software on opensolaris.org, wesolows was saying that you can't create SVR4 packages from it yet
[21:16:37] <the-decider> oh, that's ALL we need now.  Vanity NICs.
[21:16:47] <sommerfeld> since we can't adopt BSD's ping -a (audio beep per ping reply) we can do ping -C (hit cowbell once per ping reply) instead.
[21:16:52] <emiel_> I'd like to create a package for mpd. www.musicpd.org
[21:17:05] <the-decider> sommerfeld: that'd work.
[21:17:18] <elektronkind_> sommerfeld: we could have tied that in to the recent keyboard beep RFE
[21:17:23] <Pietro_S> emiel_: take look at SFE repository, there is already mpd
[21:17:38] <emiel_> Pietro_S: Have a link?
[21:17:42] <Triskelios> emiel_: I take it you're talking about adding packages (outside the core Solaris software?)
[21:17:51] <Triskelios> emiel_: I've been looking at the SFE repository (an offshoot of the JDS project) for better integration of various free software
[21:17:52] <elektronkind_> PSARC 2007/019 KIOCMKTONE (keyboard make tone) ioctl
[21:17:56] <wesolows> emiel_: You can use pkgmk(1) for that.
[21:18:02] <elektronkind_> now we need KIOCMKCOWBELL
[21:18:07] <wesolows> emiel_: The packaging utilities themselves should work fine.
[21:18:44] <Pietro_S> I have also smf profile for mpd (but tomww has better, probably he already commit it to SFE)
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[21:18:51] <Pietro_S> emiel_: http://pkgbuild.sourceforge.net/spec-files-extra/
[21:18:54] <Triskelios> wesolows: that doesn't help for publishing the packages and maintaining them
[21:19:34] <Triskelios> Pietro_S: I don't see the SMF manifest yet
[21:19:42] <sommerfeld> ... though we'd have to send pings at about twice the rate to get the cowbell to come out at the appropriate tempo when the network is working..
[21:19:54] <emiel_> Right. I'd like to publish packages.
[21:20:15] <Triskelios> emiel_: it's fairly easy to get packages imported into SFE
[21:21:04] <emiel_> Triskelios: Thanks, I'll have a look.
[21:23:02] <Pietro_S> emiel_: nice document is here http://opensource.shivakumar.info/
[21:23:28] <Pietro_S> it explain basic sturcture of spec files and how to use pkgtool/pkgbuild
[21:24:26] <emiel_> Pietro_S: Is this what Indiana is working toward?
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[21:26:48] <Pietro_S> no, indiana will have different package system, but it's not defined yet
[21:27:19] <Pietro_S> it's one of the main goal for Indiana Developer Suummit
[21:28:17] <emiel_> Pietro_S: Thanks for the link. Good docs. :) I'll work with SFE for now till Murdock reinvents apt-get.
[21:29:04] <coffman> pmpkg ftw!
[21:35:37] <Pietro_S> I hope that it will  be something better than apt thingie
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[21:37:18] <e^ipi> god I hope they don't use apt
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[21:37:33] <e^ipi> back when I still used linux, apt bricked many a machine of mine
[21:37:44] <the-decider> that's not very apt of it
[21:38:04] <the-decider> or was it being in-apt?
[21:38:09] <rpm> am i able to install opensolaris onto of an existing sol10 x86 installation without much trouble?
[21:38:21] <e^ipi> rpm: liveupgrade
[21:38:44] <rpm> e^ipi, thanks
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[21:42:57] <quasi> e^ipi: iirc there's a bug that prevents that
[21:44:08] <rpm> quasi, prevents liveupgrade or apt?
[21:44:22] <e^ipi> apt /is/ a bug
[21:44:27] <e^ipi> so presumably liveupgrade
[21:44:50] <quasi> rpm: apm is something else
[21:45:30] <quasi> e^ipi: yeah
[21:53:45] <elektronkind_> heee
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[21:55:05] <asyd> apt, a bug? hmm
[21:58:46] <elektronkind_> holy cow
[21:58:53] <elektronkind_> all my afs kernel changes WORK
[21:59:05] <elektronkind_> holy jesus hp laserjet christ
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[22:02:46] <nettie> Hi guys, some of my collegue attended the european rails conf in Berlin last week. They said that Jason Hoffman of Joyent was pretty forced to buy Dell because of Sun product availability. Anyone know if he was able to find X4500 or had to buy different storage solution? -- I'm also interested in knowing if they're actually using an iSCSI target on the Thumpers in production or not? I know Ben Rockwood hangs out here, any other Joyeur around? ;p --
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[22:11:16] <elektronkind> benr and joyent are Thumper users
[22:11:22] <elektronkind> read their blog :)
[22:11:42] <elektronkind> whoever "they" are had their info dangerously wrong
[22:12:16] <asyd> ouaa, thanks to wikipedia to tell me that thumper is a x4500 codename!
[22:16:41] <richlowe> elektronkind: So, if you go back in the history, joyent did have such issues, I think.
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[22:16:53] <richlowe> elektronkind: there's also benr's rant about nge on the M2 stuff, too.
[22:17:02] <the-decider> Sun DOES really like their random ship times. ;)
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[22:17:41] <BadKarma> random ship times heh
[22:17:44] <BadKarma> sounds like fun again
[22:17:51] <z1pp1ty> anybody know much about joining opensolaris to ADS domain?
[22:18:04] <z1pp1ty> specifically, http://blogs.sun.com/jurasek/entry/ads_domain_member_server1
[22:18:47] <z1pp1ty> i've hit a stumbling block at 'setup up the DC to accept this node'
[22:19:31] * the-decider wonders what made Sun put all those drive slots on the 4150
[22:19:50] <z1pp1ty> it sounds like I need to have a user setup on the solaris box with the same name as the hostname
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[22:21:04] <nettie> elektronkind yup I read their blog pretty often..
[22:21:14] <sommerfeld> the-decider: look at benr's blog
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[22:22:19] <sommerfeld> http://www.cuddletech.com/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=855
[22:22:22] <the-decider> ah, I see why.
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[22:22:40] <the-decider> That's what I was thinking (compete with the dell).
[22:22:55] <nettie> We're looking for an iSCSI storage device as well but Thumpers are just too much for our needs and for our pockets :(
[22:23:36] <the-decider> "who the hell needs 120G of RAM?"  *me me me*
[22:23:39] <nettie> The IBM DS3300 looks interestign but I was not able to find any performacnes related figures anywhere ..
[22:23:41] <nettie> ehehe
[22:23:51] <nettie> yeah new Sun boxes are crazy hot.. 16 cores
[22:24:05] <the-decider> probably shoots flames out the back ;)
[22:24:13] <Stric> the-decider: a non-profit org I'm in is about to receive a 32cpu, 192GB machine for free ;)
[22:24:21] <Stric> student org..
[22:24:44] <the-decider> gonna use it to store  porn? ;)
[22:25:04] <Stric> "disks? who needs that, just store it in ram"
[22:25:21] <FireflyST> damn
[22:26:24] <Stric> 32x1.3GHz might be nice for.. something..
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[22:27:13] <the-decider> parallel image analysis (e.g., categorizing the porn in various categories such as "red head", "barnyard", etc.)
[22:30:33] <hile_> electronkind - alive?
[22:30:43] * the-decider doesn't smell rotting flesh.
[22:30:45] * the-decider guesses so
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[22:31:09] <elektronkind> wassup
[22:31:14] <elektronkind> y0e
[22:31:39] <hile_> toss your patch my way and i'll gladly futz with it :)
[22:32:31] <hile_> start with some ro replicas to begin with (and normal client accesses =))
[22:32:34] <elektronkind> gimme a few. waiting for my s10u4 box to finish jumpstarting. I did the developement on s10u3. Need to test on the target platform ;)
[22:32:56] <hile_> haha
[22:32:58] <hile_> there is that :)
[22:33:06] <elektronkind> doing it on s10u3 let me test as I went along with out much fuss
[22:33:19] <elektronkind> 99% sure running it on s10u4 won't be a problem
[22:33:48] <elektronkind> but always good to do in order to avoid dereferencing foot->mouth pointers ;)
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[22:37:51] <cek> Hi !!
[22:39:06] <cek> On opensolaris, how to enable wake on lan of my network card ? (I'm looking for such as ethtool in linux. I tryed ndd on solaris but I do not understand how to change WOL settings)
[22:39:57] <wesolows> Wouldn't that imply working suspend/resume support?
[22:40:04] <wesolows> Or are you using SPARC?
[22:40:32] <elektronkind> WOL - wake on LAN I presume
[22:43:08] <cek> yes
[22:43:32] <cek> I'm running open solaris on x86_64
[22:44:38] <cek> My problem is to power on the computer from a remote location
[22:45:04] <wesolows> unless I missed it, there's no suspend/resume support on x86
[22:45:17] <wesolows> and if that's true, I don't see how you can wake up because there's no way to go to sleep
[22:45:23] <Stric> If you want to power on the computer from a cold state, then you want to enable it in the bios
[22:45:36] <wesolows> Use a machine with an SP
[22:45:39] <wesolows> or use an RPC
[22:47:42] <cek> My question is this: at shutdown linux power off the ethernet integrated card. For change it I used ethtool.
[22:48:34] <cek> openSolaris put (for default) the ethernet card in standby or off mode ?
[22:48:35] <wesolows> And you want the driver to leave it non-reset so it keeps its address and the BIOS can trigger the bootup when it's pinged?
[22:48:43] <wesolows> It would depend on the driver.
[22:49:08] <wesolows> But I doubt very much that this is going to work for you.  You can try driver-discuss or networking-discuss, but the right answer is to use a SP.
[22:49:08] <cek> no.. my question is simpler..
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[22:52:10] <cek> when I type ethtool eth0 in linux it return the settings for the eth0 card. If the property "Supports Wake-on: " is set to g all work fine. If the property is set to "d" I must change to "g" (with ethtool) for enable wake on lan.
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[22:52:56] <hile_> Didn't we already tell you that there's no suspend/resume support on x86?
[22:53:10] <wesolows> There is no such thing as ethtool
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[22:53:35] <wesolows> You can set driver properties with ndd, as you discovered, but since there's no suspend/resume support, I fail to see why a driver would be expected to have this.
[22:54:17] <cek> ok.. now I understood
[22:54:38] <wesolows> And your solution to remote power-on is unreliable, difficult to implement, and unlikely to work even if you could find hardware that supports it, a driver that understands it, and a magic future version of Solaris with suspend/resume support (or a BIOS that can do WOL from the Off state)
[22:55:00] <wesolows> Please, do yourself a favour: if you need remote power control, you can afford an SP or an RPC.
[22:58:54] <WickedWicky> buy a cyclade
[22:59:25] <cek> Excuse me, what is SP ? RPC is Remote Procedure Call ?
[22:59:38] <wesolows> Service Processor
[22:59:41] <flyingparchment> RPC is a remote power strip, SP is a service processor
[22:59:43] <wesolows> Remote Power Controller
[23:00:28] <WickedWicky> http://www.avocent.com/web/en.nsf/Content/solution-power
[23:00:29] <WickedWicky> we use those
[23:00:43] <wesolows> I've used APC power strips and Black Box power strips in the past.
[23:00:48] <wesolows> The APC ones seem more reliable.
[23:00:54] <wesolows> Never used Avocent's.
[23:01:32] <WickedWicky> we have Cyclades KVMs/ACS devices and their PMs
[23:01:39] <wesolows> Also, if you can't afford one of these (a few hundred USD normally), then you don't really need remote power control.
[23:02:02] <wesolows> I liked Cyclades console servers but I don't remember them offering RPCs
[23:02:05] <wesolows> are they new?
[23:02:16] <WickedWicky> they exist for quite a while already
[23:03:10] <WickedWicky> when you use their alterpath server you can link the ports of the ACS to the ports on the PM
[23:03:32] <wesolows> clearly my DC management skills are getting stale :-)
[23:03:53] <WickedWicky> so you can type ctrl+p in the console, and choose to power cycle/power off whatever
[23:04:02] <wesolows> nice, just like an SP
[23:04:09] <WickedWicky> yea
[23:04:15] <wesolows> or you could (shameless plug) buy Sun servers and have the SP built in.
[23:04:24] <WickedWicky> haha, indeed
[23:04:46] <WickedWicky> to be fair, I think any recent intel based server has something like that too
[23:04:58] <quasi> buy sun and achieve eternal happiness ;)
[23:05:06] <delewis> WickedWicky: not any.
[23:05:15] <WickedWicky> most
[23:05:16] <delewis> with HP, only the DL series has a service processor by default.
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[23:05:20] <WickedWicky> that's the word I wanted to use
[23:05:23] <delewis> WickedWicky: it's still optional for most.
[23:05:23] <WickedWicky> it's getting late
[23:05:26] <wesolows> there are plenty of shitbag x86 boxes on the market
[23:05:32] <quasi> with ibm it is an expensive extra
[23:05:50] <wesolows> the better gear from HP have SPs, as do all the good stuff from Sun.  But our x2100s still have optional SPs.
[23:05:53] <delewis> the ML series has an optional service processor an additional optional license for advanced features like "remote media installation"
[23:06:00] <wesolows> And most whiteboxes have no SPs at all, even as options
[23:06:03] <delewis> wesolows: nope.
[23:06:06] <delewis> X2100-M2s have it by default.
[23:06:16] <wesolows> thank god, what a mistake that was
[23:06:24] <wesolows> hopefully we've stopped selling the x2100 non-M2 too
[23:06:29] <asyd> :/
[23:06:33] <WickedWicky> delewis: that's true, even for our DL servers we needed extra licences for the virtual media feature
[23:06:38] * asyd bought a non m2 few months ago
[23:06:39] <delewis> all of the M2 gear has a service processor by default.
[23:06:42] <wesolows> no ILOM licenses required on Sun servers
[23:06:45] <asyd> hmm ok more than one year
[23:06:48] <wesolows> it Just Works
[23:06:49] <delewis> WickedWicky: with Sun, that's all stock.
[23:06:52] <WickedWicky> yea
[23:06:56] <quasi> wesolows: yeah, x2100 non-M2 is only clearance sale these days
[23:07:06] <WickedWicky> even the entry-level netras have something like that
[23:07:26] <delewis> entry-level x64 gear < entry-level Netras.
[23:07:31] <delewis> or rather, <<<<<<<
[23:07:41] <wesolows> entry-level x86 is basically unusable
[23:07:48] <wesolows> completely unsuitable for the data centre
[23:07:53] <delewis> Netras are fairly high-end.
[23:08:02] <delewis> or were for the time.
[23:08:03] <trygvis> wesolows: why is that?
[23:08:15] <flyingparchment> dell includes functional sp for free, but it's crappy.  if you use the serial console too long without typing, it times out your session and you have to reboot the sp to reconnect.
[23:08:17] <wesolows> trygvis: Because it's hard to pack the necessary management features into a $900 1U box
[23:08:39] <delewis> wesolows: yep. The only way its usable is with a decent service processor that allows for stuff like KVM re-direction and remote media installation.
[23:08:52] <trygvis> what exactly are you missing? I'm just asking
[23:09:06] <delewis> trygvis: I just mentioned it.
[23:09:14] <wesolows> It requires a lot of miniaturisation skill, which means probably making your own boards, and that means investment and volume.  The small whitebox players are putting stock mainboards in stock chassis and not adding any value.  That stuff is cheap but it has no manageability features.
[23:09:47] <wesolows> SPs, locator LEDs, IPMI, serial ports, etc.
[23:09:54] <wesolows> all are mandatory for the data centre
[23:10:02] <delewis> IPMI is pretty standard on x86 server gear, nowadays.
[23:10:07] <wesolows> yep
[23:10:08] <delewis> even the bargain Dell 1U systems have it.
[23:10:18] <delewis> but that's the bare minimum for manageability.
[23:10:30] <delewis> "woopy-doo. I can turn the system on and off remotely."
[23:10:37] <wesolows> "maybe"
[23:11:41] <cypromis> "sometimes:
[23:11:45] <cypromis> :kind off"
[23:11:48] <WickedWicky> to be honest i care more for remote console access than remote power. We have people contracted to to the basic data center work like racking, cable patching and such. So a call to them to power on the server is quickly made
[23:11:56] <cypromis> "screws up far too often:
[23:12:12] <WickedWicky> guiding someone via the phone trough a console is way harder
[23:12:31] <wesolows> WickedWicky: That's great for on-site data centres but unmanaged colocation is a lot cheaper and in that environment it's well worth it not to have to rely on monkeys traveling for an hour to get to the site.
[23:12:50] <wesolows> WickedWicky: And monkeys are more likely to fuck up than tested systems that automate it for you.
[23:13:03] <WickedWicky> wesolows: that's true... of course, everything here is a 2 hour max. drive ;-)
[23:13:14] <wesolows> 2 hours is an eternity in a crisis
[23:13:26] <wesolows> even 20 minutes is
[23:13:30] <WickedWicky> well max, being max max, as I said, they're always onside
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[23:13:39] <cypromis> in telephony 2h at 8e1'sis a shitload of lost minutes
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[23:14:06] <WickedWicky> well the first 30 minutes I spend in telcos anyway with managers who talk a lot but decide nothing and after that I can finaly start trouble shouting ;-)
[23:14:36] <WickedWicky> but yeah, remote power management + console is a must
[23:14:40] <wesolows> man...if I didn't have a problem root-caused in 30 minutes, I'd have been fired
[23:15:01] <wesolows> and if I couldn't prove it was someone else's fault or fix it in 30 minutes, I'd have been fired too
[23:15:02] <cypromis> yup
[23:15:11] <delewis> I still see a lot of 'x86 veterans' that don't get the point of a service processor, though.
[23:15:15] <cypromis> no difference how much thde managers talk
[23:15:18] <the-decider> sounds like a positive work environment...
[23:15:21] <cypromis> they get quite fast when it comes to firing
[23:15:24] <delewis> "Well, I've never needed it. Why do I need it now?"
[23:15:42] <wesolows> the-decider: I was paid well.  Expectations were understood.  My choice to stay and work.  I got tired of it and left. :-)
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[23:16:23] <the-decider> still, doesn't sound like positive motivation was being used to increase productivity.
[23:16:23] <wesolows> the-decider: At a bank you'd replace 30 with 2, and then add "and you'd probably just be fired regardless"
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[23:16:34] <cypromis> hehehe
[23:16:36] <cypromis> yep
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[23:16:54] <the-decider> however, you'd also have so many layers of redundancy involved that it shouldn't matter.
[23:17:19] <the-decider> you should always engineer for the possibility of failure and tough problems, human or otherwise
[23:17:28] <wesolows> Right, data centre management and design is about setting it up and watching it go, handling exceptions by the Book, not about troubleshooting things you've never imagined could happen under extreme pressure
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[23:17:34] <the-decider> esp. if you've got that kind of uptime req.
[23:17:38] <wesolows> If the latter is a common case, you deserve to be fired.
[23:18:08] <the-decider> I think the golden rule is -- it doesn't matter if you f' up, just don't f' up the same way twice.
[23:19:05] <wesolows> There were two such situations in my career - both power related.  Once, our corporate HQ had no power for 3 days (no reason, it just stopped working).  The other, all the power strips in our colo suddenly failed...and passed all tests again later.  Since the UPS was on the other side, it was bad...but we used our alternate data centre.
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[23:19:24] <flyingparchment> are zvols checksummed?
[23:19:27] <BadKarma> or rather dont get caught fucking up the same thing twice :)
[23:19:28] <wesolows> of course
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[23:28:37] <coffman> snv 74 is a feature freeze?
[23:30:14] <richlowe> don't think so.
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[23:47:30] <nrubsig> !seen jbeck
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[23:51:53] <flyingparchment> heh, our upstream link just got upgraded to a 4x 1Gbps trunk.. you'd think they'd just move to 10GE already
[23:53:42] <nrubsig> flyingparchment: what did you pay for it ? Firstborn ? Bunch of employee souls ?
[23:54:03] <flyingparchment> pay? :)
[23:54:09] <flyingparchment> its free
[23:54:33] <the-decider> flyingparchment: higher ed?
[23:55:01] <nrubsig> flyingparchment: free ?
[23:55:14] <nrubsig> flyingparchment: can I get that, too ?
[23:55:17] <flyingparchment> donated hosting + transit (we're a non-profit)
[23:55:26] <nrubsig> groan





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