September 20, 2007 
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September 20, 2007 [00:00:20] <CIA-25> semery: PSARC 2007/335 kdcmgr utility, 6231080 Solaris Kerberos needs a cmdline utility to auto-configure a master/slave KDC, 6588844 gkadmin's help file uses user-visible SCCS keywords, 6596185 kadmin negates -allow_tix when adding a principal record, 6598545 Client key decrypt receives bad integrity check when master key is AES* [00:00:21] <CIA-25> jp161948: PSARC/2007/033 sftp resync with OpenSSH, 6481668 sftp(1)/sftp-server(1m) needs a resync with OpenSSH [00:00:23] <CIA-25> ab196087: PSARC 2007/509 elfedit, 6234471 need a way to edit ELF objects [00:00:24] <CIA-25> dougm: 6592916 sharemgr kinda sorta sets properties on shares within ZFS group, 6592971 sharemgr emits internal error message when setting zfs group properties [00:00:26] <CIA-25> sangeeta: 6576808 R_malloc can fail and the result is not checked, possibly panicking [00:00:27] <CIA-25> as145665: 6586939 Serial Console Sleeps on Exit while Desktop Console Is In Use [00:00:32] <CIA-25> gm209912: PSARC 2007/447 SIP Contact API, 6503334 SIP library should support "*" as a valid contact header value, 6587481 add a SIP API to retrieve the the local contact information from sip_dialog structure, 6589677 add a SIP API to create a request inside a dialog, without a Contact header [00:00:35] <CIA-25> haimay: 6603976 Bulk encryptions are not offloaded to hardware in a multi-process test [00:00:38] <CIA-25> lling: PSARC 2007/342 Enhanced ZFS Pool Properties, PSARC 2007/482 zpool upgrade -V, 6565437 zpool property extensions, 6561384 want 'zpool upgrade -V <version>' to upgrade to specific version number, 6582755 zfs.h has some incorrect version macros, 6595601 libzfs headers declare functions which don't exist, 6603938 libzfs is using VERIFY() again, 6538984 duplicated messages when get pool properties from an unsupported pool version [00:00:45] <CIA-25> fw157321: 6606354 mdescplugin.c has an uninitialized variable [00:00:47] <CIA-25> gp87344: 6606382 mpt needs sgen entry for changers [00:00:49] <CIA-25> govinda: 6531260 Uncorretable and Correcatble errors are disabled for hotplug capable switchs and bridges [00:00:51] <CIA-25> ab196087: 6234471 need a way to edit ELF objects (fix ELF runtime) [00:01:02] <sommerfeld> something tells me the teamware bridge has been lagging [00:01:45] *** mritun has quit IRC [00:01:52] <johnlev> sommerfeld: it broke [00:02:09] <sommerfeld> xVM putback confused it? [00:02:22] <johnlev> the follow up generated wrong diffs, which then broke the brdige [00:02:23] <johnlev> bridge [00:04:38] *** leesa has joined #opensolaris [00:04:47] *** blah2 has quit IRC [00:04:58] *** leesa is now known as blah2 [00:05:09] *** helpmehome has joined #opensolaris [00:06:58] *** derchris has quit IRC [00:10:33] <richlowe> wow, it backed up long enough to screw the notification mail. [00:11:25] *** sarahj has joined #opensolaris [00:17:30] *** jcsmith has quit IRC [00:22:52] <axisys> when I try to start $JBOSS_HOME/bin/run.sh it hangs but when I try with truss -f it starts all the way in 17s .. can anyone explain? [00:22:55] *** lacaAFK is now known as laca [00:23:09] *** jwk404 has joined #opensolaris [00:25:00] *** moo_cow has quit IRC [00:27:15] *** tinman2k has left #opensolaris [00:32:46] *** noyb has joined #opensolaris [00:37:42] *** Andy_Pease has joined #opensolaris [00:39:21] *** andy__ has quit IRC [00:39:37] *** pbaumgartner has quit IRC [01:04:59] <sparcdr> bbl nap time for a bit :) [01:05:03] *** nrubsig has joined #opensolaris [01:05:03] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig [01:05:10] *** sparcdr has quit IRC [01:05:19] <nrubsig> !seen drone [01:05:45] <nrubsig> groan... I hoped this was fixed now. [01:06:42] * nrubsig mourns the loss of alanc [01:06:54] <alanc> ? [01:06:58] <nrubsig> erm [01:07:12] <nrubsig> alanc: how are you ? why do you use alanc's nick ? [01:07:17] <alanc> you know something I don't know? [01:07:27] <e^ipi> alanc: he's playing with one of those "plug in the name for a fake news story" sites [01:07:36] <nrubsig> alanc: http://alan.coopersmith.swellserver.com/news/top_stories/auto80.php [01:07:37] <richlowe> alanc: decent sources for crack, seemingly. [01:07:49] <e^ipi> because he needs more things to do with his time now that ksh integrated [01:07:50] <nrubsig> e^ipi: xx@@@!!!! [01:07:52] * alanc didn't think Sun's RIF was until next week... [01:08:44] <Drone> Drone is currently online in #opensolaris and last spoke on Mon 17 Sep 2007 09:25 GMT, saying 'Gman is currently online in #opensolaris and last spoke on Sun 16 Sep 2007 06:08 GMT, saying 'anyways, it's sunday, and i'm not here :)'.'. [01:08:47] <nrubsig> Mhhhh... RIF via car crash... [01:08:59] <nrubsig> !seen CIA-70 [01:09:02] <Drone> I've never seen cia-70 talk in #opensolaris. [01:09:03] <wesolows> how is that funny? [01:09:13] <richlowe> see above, crack. [01:09:21] * nrubsig hides... [01:09:49] <wesolows> ok, the last sentence is funny, as it's the over the top tipoff that it's fake [01:11:57] <nrubsig> richlowe: no crack involved. Unfortunately I am currently too idle and I'm not much temped anymore to write more patches since I don't find putback sponsors for the existing ones <sulk> [01:13:17] <wesolows> why don't you complain to the OGB about the sponsor process then? [01:13:24] <nrubsig> The only thing I can do right now is to terrorrize the mailing lists. [01:13:26] <wesolows> and maybe write up a proposal for fixing it [01:13:27] <nrubsig> erm [01:13:31] <nrubsig> wesolows: erm [01:13:34] <richlowe> wesolows: because there's no real way *to* fix it. [01:13:38] <richlowe> you can't *make* ON engineers care. [01:13:51] <wesolows> think outside the box [01:14:02] <nrubsig> wesolows: how can OGB concince people to do stuff when they are already overburned. [01:14:12] <nrubsig> ? [01:14:12] <richlowe> methods to increase the fraction of a damn given outside of bribery seem likely to fail. [01:14:15] <wesolows> you're asking the wrong questions [01:14:24] <alanc> nrubsig: or join the tools-discuss evaluations of bug tracking systems so you can stop filing bugs in b.o.o that it loses in process [01:14:29] <richlowe> wesolows: if you're suggesting "Make it unnecessary", ... trying. [01:14:36] <nrubsig> alanc: erm [01:14:45] <richlowe> alanc: yes! [01:14:50] <nrubsig> alanc: do you mean my bugs are lost .... AGAIN ?! [01:14:52] <wesolows> if Sun's engineers are too busy to sponsor other stuff, we need to change the process to bypass Sun engineers [01:15:04] <richlowe> wesolows: Yes. [01:15:10] <jmcp> wesolows: traitor! [01:15:10] <alanc> nrubsig: I never saw your dtrace one go by... [01:15:17] <jmcp> oh wait ... wrong era [01:15:18] <jmcp> sorry :) [01:15:32] <nrubsig> alanc: f*ck [01:16:11] <alanc> exactly - we need to get more people working on deciding what to use to replace b.o.o so it can happen in our lifetimes [01:16:29] * nrubsig gets angry. [01:16:35] * nrubsig gets very angry. [01:16:45] <richlowe> Yes. [01:16:47] * nrubsig gets every f*cking angry... [01:16:58] <richlowe> Someone able to provide more than one candidate would be good, however. [01:17:13] <alanc> it may still be in Linda's mail or the b.o.o->bugster pipeline somewhere - I can't tell from here [01:17:16] *** helpmehome has quit IRC [01:17:17] *** charlesnw has left #opensolaris [01:17:20] * nrubsig gets <censored-by-childguard@freenode.net> of the <censored-by-childguard@freenode.net> <censored-by-childguard@freenode.net> <censored-by-childguard@freenode.net> b.o.o <censored-by-childguard@freenode.net> [01:17:35] <richlowe> alanc: b.o.o->bugster is bugs-by-mail, I'm told if bugtraq chokes on it, it lands on linda, who in theory files it by hand. [01:17:53] <richlowe> if it never reaches linda, it never even *tried* to get to bugtraq, in theory. [01:18:34] *** helpmehome has joined #opensolaris [01:18:35] <johnlev> nrubsig: dtrace bug? [01:18:48] <nrubsig> johnlev: yes. hang by dtrace [01:18:51] <nrubsig> system hang [01:19:11] <johnlev> hmm. [01:19:18] <nrubsig> and even worse one of my RFEs is gone, too. [01:20:44] <nrubsig> Ok... on which person should I start <censored-by-childguard at freenode dot net> about the "b.o.o eats reports"-thing ? [01:20:50] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC [01:21:01] * nrubsig cooks up some acid in his stomach as preparation to fire... [01:21:55] <richlowe> nrubsig: nobody, because it won't change. [01:22:00] <richlowe> as alanc said, help us get the hell away from it. [01:22:26] <alanc> the only fix planned for b.o.o is 100% replacement [01:22:27] <richlowe> last I spoke to someone with any idea about b.o.o, I was told the people responsible don't even pay attention to the opensolaris/website bug category. [01:22:36] <richlowe> Which makes them fairly clearly inappropriate morons. [01:22:43] <richlowe> so let's make their suck no longer matter, huh? [01:23:13] <nrubsig> richlowe: maybe I need to rephrase my question a bit.... who should be hung, shot, beheaded, cooked in oil, fed to komodo dragons and then beaten to hell that I can get my bugreports back ? [01:23:31] <richlowe> nrubsig: my suggestion is to type them into $EDITOR, save them, then paste them into the form. [01:23:38] <richlowe> and help tools-discuss find a replacement, clearly. [01:23:41] <nrubsig> groan [01:23:56] <nrubsig> richlowe: use a custom bugzilla setup. [01:24:07] <richlowe> I know of no other method to make certain a bug reaches its destination, the entire system as I understand it will always be fragile. [01:24:12] <jmcp> nrubsig: so email that suggestion to tools-discuss [01:24:29] <alanc> so far, bugzilla is the only candidate that anyone has put forward [01:24:31] <nrubsig> richlowe: I volunteer to write a command-line interface, including offline submitting. [01:25:00] <richlowe> alanc: I have a couple of things I'd like to look at, it's a matter of finding time. [01:25:53] <alanc> from what I've heard, we really should consider Jira, if we can agree that maybe the DTS doesn't have to be open source itself, just free to use by open source [01:26:24] <richlowe> alanc: I'd like to look at eventum (which is more trouble ticketing, but seems usable as a plain DTS). [01:26:30] <richlowe> but I haven't even vaguely looked in detail. [01:26:42] <richlowe> and someone or other in here keeps mentioning Scarab [01:29:17] *** dlynes_laptop has joined #opensolaris [01:32:27] *** helpmehome has quit IRC [01:34:55] *** NikolaVeber has quit IRC [01:40:01] *** vmlemon has quit IRC [01:49:27] <nrubsig> dduvall: pin! [01:49:31] <nrubsig> er [01:49:32] <nrubsig> ping! [01:49:35] <nrubsig> dduvall: ping! [01:49:55] * nrubsig wonders why the 'g''s cost that much these days... [01:51:39] <bubbva> shh, nrubsig, dduvall might be sleeping! :-) [01:51:43] *** bubbva has quit IRC [01:53:42] *** _mw46_ has quit IRC [01:55:41] <Doc> there's a worldwide shortage on ''s due to a factory fire in korea [01:55:59] <nrubsig> bubbva: ;-( [01:56:12] <Doc> damn.. looks like the one i used in shortae was the last one i had left :( [01:56:37] <nrubsig> 'x' are rare, too. [01:56:42] <nrubsig> and eppensive! [01:57:00] <wesolows> especially with triple letter score [01:57:28] <nrubsig> 'w''s are rare, too... because wesolows needs them all... ;-( [01:57:31] *** dlynes_laptop has quit IRC [01:58:17] *** Pietro_S has quit IRC [01:58:24] *** uebayasi has joined #opensolaris [01:58:53] *** sahafeez has quit IRC [01:59:31] *** helpmehome has joined #opensolaris [02:00:49] *** ashner has joined #opensolaris [02:01:05] *** jcsmith has joined #opensolaris [02:01:07] <wesolows> ARRR, they be MY w's, and any man who be touchin' em will walk the plank! [02:01:57] *** alanc_away has quit IRC [02:02:19] *** alanc_away has joined #opensolaris [02:06:04] <axisys> anyone here plays w/ jboss? my jboss get stuck here `INFO [Server] Core system initialized' [02:06:20] <axisys> and dont go any further unless I start it with truss -f infront of it [02:06:58] <jmcp> axisys: when you don't start it with truss -f, did you grab a stack trace of the process to see where it's hung? [02:08:07] <axisys> jmcp: yes [02:08:16] <axisys> i will put the pastebin url here [02:08:19] <jmcp> thanks [02:08:53] * nrubsig points out that there is now a tool for axisys's task (upload stuff to pastebin) ... [02:09:01] <axisys> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/704014 [02:09:16] <axisys> it waits for something [02:10:05] <jmcp> so what is pid 4427? [02:10:18] <jmcp> 0x114b = decimal 4427 [02:11:09] *** BatonT has quit IRC [02:11:13] *** binarycrusader has joined #opensolaris [02:11:29] *** binarycrusader has joined #opensolaris [02:11:29] <axisys> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/704019 [02:11:58] <jmcp> so 4427 is what you really should provide the pstack output from [02:12:17] <jmcp> 4414 (run.sh) is waiting for 4427 (java) to change state in some fashion [02:12:47] <axisys> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/704020 [02:13:10] * jmcp <3 pastebin [02:13:57] <jmcp> axisys: did it ever work? [02:14:04] <axisys> jmcp: yes.. [02:14:11] <jmcp> what changed? [02:14:21] <axisys> jmcp: just got a complain from user that it stopped working [02:14:30] <axisys> jmcp: few people have access to the system [02:14:35] <jmcp> firstly, kick the user :-) [02:14:54] <axisys> jmcp: thats the plan as soon as I get back to work tomorrow [02:14:57] <jmcp> heh [02:15:05] <nrubsig> brendang: is it possible that dtrace doesn't care about different multibyte encodings when tracing scripts ? [02:15:19] <jmcp> does the user have admin access sufficient to start and stop the jboss processes? [02:16:48] <axisys> jmcp: this is how it gets started http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/704023 [02:17:02] <axisys> run as jboss user who has full access to /opt/jboss dir [02:17:34] <axisys> but u can see it hungs.. is there some java argument I can throw in to debug [02:18:04] <jmcp> my suspicion is that somebody changed something in /opt/jboss and haven't bothered to tell you [02:18:09] <jmcp> not that I know of [02:18:47] <jmcp> one of the java threads (#12) appears to be stuck in malloc+friends [02:19:05] <jmcp> perhaps it needs more memory in the -Xmx arg [02:19:10] <axisys> /usr/jdk/jdk1.5.0_11/bin/java -Dprogram.name=run.sh -server -Xms128m -Xmx512m -Dsun.rmi.dgc.client.gcInterval=3600000 -Dsun.rmi.dgc.server.gcInterval=3600000 -Djava.endorsed.dirs=/opt/jboss-4.0.5.GA/lib/endorsed -classpath /opt/jboss-4.0.5.GA/bin/run.jar:/usr/jdk/jdk1.5.0_11/lib/tools.jar org.jboss.Main [02:19:15] <axisys> that is how it gets started [02:19:20] <jmcp> yes, saw that [02:19:46] <axisys> jmcp: so add more memory to the max ? like u said [02:20:04] *** Jondice has quit IRC [02:20:11] <jmcp> probably [02:20:31] <jmcp> if it can wait until you interrogate the user first..... [02:22:07] <axisys> jmcp: a working version would look something like this http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/704029 [02:22:12] <Tempt> boyd: ping [02:22:29] <axisys> jmcp: this is from a machine that I use for testing w/o production env change [02:23:29] *** sarahj has quit IRC [02:23:45] <jmcp> axisys: java 1.5.0_11 on the broken one, 1.6.0_01 on the working one [02:23:59] <axisys> jmcp: yes [02:24:30] <Tempt> Does anyone still use Jabber for instant messaging? I notice "google talk" doesn't seem to play nicely with normal jabber stuff. [02:24:33] <axisys> jmcp: max memory to 1024m didnt help [02:24:51] <jmcp> axisys: kick the user [02:25:03] <jmcp> Tempt: not since I got hooked by goooooogletalk [02:25:18] <axisys> jmcp: it hungs so bad that I cannot cntrl C or ctrl Z [02:25:28] <axisys> i need a new ssh session and then kill that way [02:25:39] <jmcp> axisys: try taking a gcore of it first [02:25:50] <jmcp> you might want to have a talk to jboss support [02:26:21] <axisys> jmcp: how do I take a gcore.. sorry never done that [02:26:36] <axisys> jmcp: yes trying to see if anyone respnd in jboss irc [02:27:08] <jmcp> cd /var/tmp ; gcore 4427 [02:27:23] <jmcp> if that doesn't work, try gcore -F 4427 [02:28:27] <richlowe> mornin' jmcp [02:28:33] <jmcp> hi richlowe [02:28:36] <axisys> cool did a core dump. process should still be running ? [02:28:40] <jmcp> yes [02:28:44] *** m0le has joined #opensolaris [02:28:51] <axisys> jmcp: awesome ! never knew that [02:29:03] <jmcp> it's verrah handy [02:29:08] <axisys> jmcp: so a jboss support guy should know why it stuck.. correct? [02:29:13] <jmcp> I would hope so [02:29:14] <axisys> jmcp: yeap [02:29:19] <axisys> jmcp: thnx a lot [02:29:26] <jmcp> they at least should be able to look into their support db and find similar stack traces [02:29:36] <axisys> jmcp: do u know how to take a core dump on a process that does not hang? [02:29:45] <axisys> jmcp: gotcha [02:29:45] <jmcp> try with a -F ? [02:29:50] <jmcp> apart from that ... no idea, really [02:30:06] <axisys> jmcp: -F for a running process that does not hang? [02:30:19] <richlowe> gcore stops the process, dumps, starts it. [02:30:31] *** furrycat has joined #opensolaris [02:30:34] <axisys> richlowe: i c.. wow! never knew that.. thanks guys [02:30:35] <richlowe> are you asking for a method that doesn't stop the process, or a method that works on processes that aren't (currently) stopped? [02:30:53] <axisys> richlowe: i think i got my answer from your previous coment [02:31:05] *** theRealballchalk has quit IRC [02:31:35] <axisys> richlowe: your question however makes e wonder.. could i also take a core dump w/o stopping it? [02:31:50] <axisys> or w/o gcore stopping it rather [02:37:44] *** helpmehome has quit IRC [02:47:09] *** BatonT has joined #opensolaris [02:49:36] <boyd> maybe with mdb -o nostop, but the core dump is unlikely to be consistent [02:51:30] *** johnlev has quit IRC [02:52:23] *** loke_ has quit IRC [02:54:05] *** helpmehome has joined #opensolaris [02:56:36] *** simford has joined #opensolaris [02:58:22] *** hali_ has joined #opensolaris [02:58:28] *** hali has quit IRC [02:58:33] <axisys> i use gdb corefile command and then back trace.. how do u do it mdb? [03:05:37] <jmcp> mdb command corefile [03:05:52] <jmcp> then $C to get the stack trace of the "representative thread" [03:06:12] <Tpenta> looks like i get to meet benr at CEC, ... my opensolaris talk got knocked back, but at least he got accepted [03:06:13] <wesolows> or ::walk thread | ::findstack to get all of them [03:07:36] <axisys> wesolows, jmcp very cool [03:07:56] <wesolows> once you learn to use mdb, you'll wonder how you ever got anything done with gdb [03:08:13] <Tempt> Hmm, I've never used gdb [03:08:38] <Tempt> If things don't work on Linux, I figure it's probably a Linux problem and go use a real computer [03:09:05] <wesolows> Not all GNU systems or systems with gdb installed are GNU/Linux, but yeah [03:09:15] <wesolows> generally I only care about systems running Solaris [03:09:15] <jbk> though kinda like dtrace, there's so much, it can be a bit hard to get your head around it if you're not using it constantly [03:09:20] <wesolows> which means mdb is present [03:09:43] <Tpenta> wesolows: I'm gunna close that bug i own for the non-debug builds as a dupe of what finally went in, sound reasonable? [03:09:44] <richlowe> the larger issue with mdb and sanity is having to chase down locals yourself. [03:09:53] <richlowe> and double-check that arguments didn't get clobbered. [03:09:58] <richlowe> that said, if you do it by hand, you get it right. [03:10:02] <richlowe> whereas otherwise you trust gdb to. [03:10:43] <wesolows> yep [03:10:53] *** Sup3rkiddo has quit IRC [03:10:54] <wesolows> Tpenta: sounds fine [03:11:00] <wesolows> I don't trust gdb at all [03:11:05] <Tpenta> and i'll raise a new one for streamlining the script I rewrote during that (bindrop) [03:11:13] <wesolows> if mdb breaks I throw something at mws [03:11:37] *** yarihm has quit IRC [03:11:42] <richlowe> Tpenta: what needs doing to bindrop? [03:12:04] <Tpenta> bindrop currnetly has major overkill i copying the whole tree and removing parts, the bindrop i had only copies what it needs [03:12:15] <Gman> Tpenta, what talk did you submit? [03:12:24] *** Saguti has joined #opensolaris [03:12:32] <richlowe> Tpenta: ah. [03:12:33] <jmcp> wesolows: which is fine for you... the rest of us have to do it by proxy [03:13:11] <Tpenta> i submitted two and co-did another, ... one on why kernel patches take so long to get out, another on getting services involved in opensolaris and the co-auther was on SAS and sol10 [03:13:39] <jmcp> tell me about the last one [03:14:02] <Gman> Tpenta, the paper committee seemed really harsh this year - a whole bunch of open source talks were rejected too :/ [03:14:51] <Saguti> Good evening everybody. I would like to know more about the "build machines" which are mentioned in one of the presentations in documentation section. [03:15:00] <Tpenta> very few services talks got through in spite of the criticism last yeart [03:15:11] <Tpenta> I'm batting 0 for 5 over the last 2 years [03:15:21] <Tpenta> io see no incentive to try again next year [03:15:27] <jmcp> Tpenta: if I hadn't been RIFfed last year I would have had 0 for 1 [03:15:32] <jmcp> sorry, 1 for 2 rather [03:15:38] *** medar has quit IRC [03:15:39] <jmcp> I don't see any point in CEC now though [03:15:42] <Gman> Tpenta, we had to get some strings pulls to get them to accept an indiana one [03:15:59] *** Triskelios has quit IRC [03:16:00] <Tpenta> and i saw you got 2 [03:16:07] <Gman> 2? [03:16:16] <Tpenta> we were assured that all of the talks from the performance v-team would get in,... we got 1 [03:16:16] <wesolows> Saguti: Which presentation? [03:16:19] <alanc> Saguti: there are no public build machines at this time [03:16:27] <Tpenta> I'm sure i saw 2 indiana talks in the list glynn [03:16:46] * Gman goes off to look [03:16:49] <jmcp> I'm hoping to get on the list for the Sydney TechDay next year [03:17:23] *** unixware has joined #opensolaris [03:18:11] <richlowe> jmcp: but that's almost local to you. [03:18:29] <Saguti> wesolows: At the page 16 on http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/documentation/getting_started_docs/developing-in-on.pdf [03:18:31] <Gman> Tpenta, bizarre :) [03:19:00] <jmcp> richlowe: indeed - barely 2 hours away by plane [03:19:20] <jbk> nice [03:19:42] <wesolows> Saguti: Yeah, that was wrotten for SWAN-localted engineers. Sadly, we don't yet have public build machines, although I believe a group at Sun is volunteering to provide a limited number of them in the not too distant future. [03:19:47] <wesolows> *written [03:19:54] <wesolows> jeez, terrible typos today [03:19:57] <wesolows> I need more booze [03:20:35] <Gman> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/testing/testfarm/ [03:20:38] <Saguti> wesolows: Ah, Ok... Thank you! [03:20:39] <Gman> should help somewhat [03:20:43] <wesolows> yes [03:21:04] *** medar has joined #opensolaris [03:21:55] <wesolows> it's not obvious that they're intended for building as well as testing, though [03:22:25] <richlowe> jmcp: pick a tech day somewhere exotic, and try and get to that too. [03:22:29] <jmcp> :-) [03:22:36] <wesolows> and frankly I'd never consider using Sun's test farm given T&C 2.2 [03:22:41] <boyd> Vanuatu? [03:22:43] *** picot has quit IRC [03:22:51] <richlowe> wesolows: they aren't intended for building. [03:22:57] <wesolows> richlowe: I thought not [03:22:59] <richlowe> wesolows: they're self-service PIT, with some of the tests removed, pretty much. [03:23:05] <richlowe> you upload a tarball of archives, it spins. [03:23:19] <wesolows> ok, that matches what I'd expected them to be doing [03:23:49] <wesolows> but still, taking a joint copyright in exchange for access to a test machine? wow. Harsh. [03:24:07] <wesolows> I'd lease machines from a raskspace.com type instead. [03:24:08] <richlowe> I don't see the T&C's [03:24:18] <wesolows> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/testing/testfarm/opensolaris_testfarm_termsv4.pdf [03:24:19] <richlowe> plus, when I asked Jim if we could use them for onnv-scm tests, he basically didn't respond. [03:24:24] <richlowe> so he can look elsewhere for beta people. [03:24:56] <richlowe> 2.2 is almost straight out of the SCA [03:25:24] <richlowe> 4.1 is equally stupid [03:25:32] <richlowe> if 4.1 is true, the system is too buggy for use. [03:25:34] *** unixware has quit IRC [03:25:45] *** Saguti has left #opensolaris [03:26:58] <alanc> hmm, I don't see "Accept" or "Decline" buttons in my PDF, but it says we have to click on one or the other... [03:27:30] <richlowe> wesolows: also, the page I was just on looks like we can book test machines, apart from self-serve. [03:27:34] <richlowe> in which case, you could build on them, probably. [03:31:48] <alanc> hmm, doesn't 3.1 make the test farm useless for most developers? even I can't claim I have the right to grant co-ownership of the existing OpenSolaris code base to another party, so you can't use it if you're modifying existing code [03:32:23] <richlowe> we can, because the CDDL grants us such. [03:32:26] <richlowe> as I understand it. [03:32:40] <richlowe> but as I said to glynn, 2.2 is incompatible with non-self serve testing. [03:32:53] <richlowe> if I upload my editor config to get stuff done, that shouldn't consistute giving Sun joint copyright. [03:33:24] *** aglio2 has joined #opensolaris [03:33:30] <aglio2> hmmmm [03:33:51] <aglio2> if SXDE on VMWare isn't picking up host DNS, what should I look at? [03:36:41] <furrycat> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/704093 [03:36:50] <axisys> what is a good tool to diff two dirs? [03:37:10] *** laca has quit IRC [03:37:31] <furrycat> are these good options for sun studio 12? [03:37:42] <furrycat> for compiling postgresql? [03:38:00] <e^ipi> postgres is already included [03:38:16] <furrycat> e^ipi: not with all my dtrace probes! [03:38:27] <aglio2> e^ipi: yeah, but it's compiled with studio 11 [03:38:42] <aglio2> furrycat: check out the SpecJAppserver publication. [03:38:44] <e^ipi> furrycat: the version that comes with nevada's got dtrace probes all up in it [03:38:55] <aglio2> Jignesh published his compile options [03:39:08] <aglio2> might be a little agressive for a production system, though [03:39:25] <aglio2> furrycat: you have additional probes? [03:39:36] <furrycat> aglio: yes, very good ones! [03:39:51] <furrycat> makes postgresql almost as watchable as oracle. [03:40:10] <aglio2> furrycat: can you share them? With the dtrace-pgsql project or with Robert Lor? [03:40:13] <furrycat> sucks that postgresql doesn't have SQL:2003 Window functions. [03:40:27] <furrycat> aglio2: I might. [03:40:30] <aglio2> furrycat: harrass Greenplum. They did it for their version [03:40:37] <aglio2> furrycat: please do. or send them to me [03:40:47] <aglio2> josh at postgresql dot org [03:41:37] <furrycat> aglio2: i'll get them to you in a bit :-). They aren't on this machine. [03:42:11] <furrycat> i've got a bunch of dtrace scripts for them as well. [03:42:21] <aglio2> furrycat: you going to be at any TechDays or OpenSolaris Summit? [03:42:32] <aglio2> furrycat: great ... what's your e-mail so I can bug you? [03:42:33] <furrycat> no. [03:43:14] <axisys> anyone know how to diff two dirs? [03:43:21] <alanc> diff -r [03:43:22] <furrycat> no bugging allowed. :-) [03:43:25] <wesolows> gdif -urN? [03:43:33] <wesolows> does diff have -r now? [03:43:42] <aglio2> d'oh! [03:43:44] <wesolows> indeed it does, excellent [03:43:50] <alanc> hasn't it always? [03:43:55] <aglio2> now you're going to vanish from the channel, never to be seen again [03:43:57] <aglio2> :-( [03:44:01] <wesolows> oh, right, it has -r but not -N [03:44:12] <furrycat> nah, I'll email you [03:44:23] <alanc> right [03:44:31] <axisys> wesolows: thnx [03:45:32] <furrycat> i'm glad that i'm on solaris 10 u4, because static functions are supported under dtrace. [03:47:50] <furrycat> goodnight everyone! [03:48:47] <aglio2> night [03:49:19] *** yongsun has joined #opensolaris [03:49:30] *** furrycat has quit IRC [03:58:29] *** yongsun has left #opensolaris [03:59:17] *** sommerfeld has quit IRC [04:04:49] <nrubsig> dmarker: ping! [04:07:00] *** linux_user400354 has joined #opensolaris [04:07:13] *** andy_ has joined #opensolaris [04:08:17] *** linux_user400354 is now known as moo_cow [04:09:10] *** Andy_Pease has quit IRC [04:10:02] *** alobbs has quit IRC [04:10:37] *** alobbs has joined #opensolaris [04:10:53] <alanc> okay, now I think I'm scared - my Xvnc includes the Looking Glass extension.... [04:11:25] <alanc> I expected the other Sun changes, like the dtrace probes, since I built off the Sun Xorg sources, but that's just weird [04:13:04] * alanc slaps people who pick random b.o.o categories to file bugs in - "To view this site, you need to have Flash Player 9.0 or later installed" is NOT a solaris/xserver bug [04:13:05] <jbk> ok.. just did the olympus instruction support.. now i just need to figure out how their use is marked in the elf data. [04:13:37] <wesolows> alanc: sure it is; we need the DisplayFlash extension [04:13:50] *** Gman has quit IRC [04:14:01] <alanc> that's almost as sick as the attempt to embed a JVM inside the Xserver [04:14:13] <alanc> fortunately, that failed [04:14:33] <alanc> because we already have enough complaints about X server memory usage thanks to Firefox's pixmap usage [04:16:37] <jbk> which would be easier if i could actually find an example that uses the fused instructions [04:16:56] *** alanc is now known as alanc-away [04:17:38] <aglio2> alanc-away: it's pretty much guarenteed that bug submitters never pick the right categories [04:18:36] <jbk> well if done via b.o.o i can understand why [04:18:58] <nrubsig> alanc-away: JVM embedded in the Xserver ? DPS morphed into JDL (java display language) ? [04:19:15] <nrubsig> alanc-away: the idea is tempting... [04:19:20] <nrubsig> =:-) [04:19:41] <jbk> well i'm guessing the problem is/would be lack of application support [04:19:42] <alanc-away> nrubsig: no, it was one of the earlier experiments of Project Looking Glass, since their display code is Java3D based [04:20:08] <alanc-away> but the highly multithreaded JVM code and highly thread-unsafe Xserver code did not play nicely together at all [04:20:20] <nrubsig> heh [04:20:57] <jbk> but it would be interesting (probably more for the remote display case) if the widget code could be downloaded to the server and manipulated via shim libraries w/ a higher-level interface [04:20:58] <nrubsig> alanc-away: they could've used Sun's OpenGL implementation in the Xserver [04:21:39] <nrubsig> LG3D-Java--->X11--->Xserver--->JVM--->GLX_engine [04:21:48] <alanc-away> Java3D calls down to OpenGL, they'd just have to rewrite all their code from Java to C, and they didn't want to do that [04:21:52] <nrubsig> IPC moved to the next dimension! [04:22:23] <nrubsig> umpf [04:22:30] * nrubsig crosses his eyes [04:22:31] <nrubsig> hey [04:22:37] <nrubsig> I have a cool idea! [04:22:54] <nrubsig> The X11/XKSH extension! 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[04:39:54] *** moo_cow has quit IRC [04:39:55] <axisys> *.info |/var/adm/syslog.pipe [04:40:16] <axisys> do u necessarily need that bar `|' ? [04:40:56] *** Shiv__ has joined #opensolaris [04:42:06] <aglio2> anyone try SXDE on Fusion? [04:42:40] *** jacobs has quit IRC [04:48:21] *** sfire||mouse has joined #opensolaris [04:51:16] <axisys> anyone can vouch for that pipe syntax? [04:52:08] <Tempt> axisys: Just test it if you're not sure [04:52:17] <Tempt> axisys: Try it both ways, see which one works. [04:52:40] <Tempt> (manpage says nothing about pipes ...) [04:53:30] *** sioraiocht has joined #opensolaris [04:54:47] *** binarycrusader has left #opensolaris [05:00:41] *** yongsun has joined #opensolaris [05:03:00] *** johnlev has joined #opensolaris [05:05:01] * Tempt yawns [05:09:58] *** rbrown has joined #opensolaris [05:10:11] *** rbrown is now known as phus [05:11:26] *** SeSe has joined #opensolaris [05:11:41] *** Jest3r has joined #opensolaris [05:11:48] *** Jest3r has left #opensolaris [05:13:32] <aglio2> ok, so I've just discovered that script on Solaris won't let me do demos [05:13:44] <aglio2> how do I get the script which supports replays? [05:20:27] *** hali has joined #opensolaris [05:22:11] <sbahra> brendang: Ping [05:22:31] <aglio2> ok, I found the source [05:22:38] <aglio2> but boy it doesn't want to compile [05:22:40] *** hali_ has quit IRC [05:26:40] *** halton has left #opensolaris [05:31:57] <Shiv__> As per yesterday's flag day notice xVM is now supported by Nevada. Aye.... [05:32:59] <johnlev> Aye? [05:34:04] <Shiv__> Aye -> from asterix comics for a ++ [05:34:28] <johnlev> hmm, I don't remember that :) [05:34:36] *** pizdec_ has joined #opensolaris [05:36:32] <Shiv__> Typo, should be "Ave !" [05:37:01] <johnlev> oh. Ave. I remember /that/ :) [05:38:19] *** Shiv__ has left #opensolaris [05:38:48] <pizdec_> heya were there cpu speed limitations for sol 10 for sparcs? i remember it being some 170mhz but could not find reference if my ultra enterprise 1/170 is sol 10 useable [05:44:52] <jamesd_> pizdec, 201mhz or more for solaris 10.... no 200mhz wont run it [05:44:53] <e^ipi> I think you're referring to the broken 64-bit support on the USparc-I and USparc-II 200mhz version [05:45:23] <jamesd_> you need a usparcII cpu... and the slowest is 250mhz [05:47:50] *** Saguti has joined #opensolaris [05:48:40] *** helpmehome has quit IRC [05:49:02] <Saguti> Hello everybody. Does somebody know if is there any member of voice system staff connected right now? [05:50:17] <Saguti> ooops. Silly me. That message was for other channel :$ [05:51:37] *** Saguti has quit IRC [05:58:16] *** linma has joined #opensolaris [06:00:16] <CIA-25> lh195018: PSARC/2001/252 Recovering SCSI Sense Data, 4046204 USCSICMD fails to pass back more than 20 bytes ARQ Sense DATA;, 6603211 the uscsi_cdb should not restrict bp->b_back in the st driver [06:00:49] *** aglio2 has quit IRC [06:03:32] *** kadath has quit IRC [06:03:54] *** kadath has joined #opensolaris [06:16:37] *** karrotx has joined #opensolaris [06:22:08] *** lloy0076 has joined #opensolaris [06:23:27] *** pde has quit IRC [06:23:34] *** pde has joined #opensolaris [06:26:49] *** victori_ has quit IRC [06:27:51] *** lloy0076 has left #opensolaris [06:35:46] <rootard> /clear/window 6 [06:36:59] *** victori_ has joined #opensolaris [06:50:44] *** sfire||mouse has quit IRC [06:57:15] <boyd> What's the matter, don't you want to look at us? [06:58:01] *** reflect has quit IRC [07:07:21] *** pizdec__ has joined #opensolaris [07:08:26] *** nrubsig has quit IRC [07:09:40] *** BatonT has quit IRC [07:10:25] *** cmang_ has joined #opensolaris [07:16:30] *** cmang has quit IRC [07:16:32] *** gnut has joined #opensolaris [07:16:35] <gnut> join #haskell [07:16:40] *** gnut has quit IRC [07:17:53] *** elektronkind has quit IRC [07:23:01] *** wtf has joined #opensolaris [07:23:59] *** pizdec_ has quit IRC [07:25:36] *** LeftWing has quit IRC [07:25:51] *** Gman has quit IRC [07:25:59] *** LeftWing has joined #OpenSolaris [07:27:58] *** LeftWing has quit IRC [07:31:02] *** andy__ has joined #opensolaris [07:32:41] *** palowoda has joined #opensolaris [07:32:59] *** andy_ has quit IRC [07:36:02] *** hali_ has joined #opensolaris [07:36:20] *** pizdec__ has quit IRC [07:37:38] *** hali has quit IRC [07:37:48] *** LeftWing has joined #OpenSolaris [07:44:50] *** __hsilva has joined #opensolaris [07:48:17] *** johnlev has quit IRC [07:49:53] *** reflect has joined #opensolaris [07:50:06] *** linma has quit IRC [07:51:08] *** wtf has quit IRC [07:58:55] *** _hsilva has quit IRC [08:07:12] <moazamraja> did the *.sun.com domains just die? [08:07:17] <moazamraja> and opensolaris.org also [08:07:23] <moazamraja> can't get to anything [08:09:22] <g4lt-yarrrrr> moazamraja, perhaps smeone's trying to tell you something... [08:09:35] <moazamraja> ..... [08:09:40] <delewis> looks that way to me. [08:10:01] <moazamraja> don't visit .sun.com ? whaa? [08:10:02] <moazamraja> :/ [08:10:24] <jamesd_> looks like a main router is down... dont even make it to sun's subnet [08:10:45] <delewis> nope, last hop here is internap. [08:11:14] <jamesd_> 12 206.24.211.18 (206.24.211.18) 76.317 ms 76.258 ms 76.220 ms [08:11:15] <jamesd_> 13 border2.ge1-1-bbnet1.sfo002.pnap.net (63.251.63.17) 75.999 ms 141.655 ms 219.285 ms [08:11:15] <jamesd_> 14 * * * [08:11:44] <jamesd_> sun.com. 701 IN A 72.5.124.61 [08:12:19] <delewis> whois says Internap owns 63.251.0.0/16 [08:13:05] <jamesd_> sun.com should be redundant boxes... i'm surprised, that it or a single router going down can take out there site. [08:13:11] *** sethstorm has joined #opensolaris [08:15:16] <moazamraja> it aint the box [08:15:17] <moazamraja> thats for sure [08:15:20] <moazamraja> blogs.sun.com is down also [08:15:23] <moazamraja> so is opensolaris.org [08:16:13] <jamesd_> yeah it must be a large router, or perhaps a load balancer that went down. [08:16:43] *** estibi has quit IRC [08:18:57] <Doc> apparently they run their websites on IIS [08:23:24] <jamesd_> too bad there webserver isn't as well connected as there 4 nameservers they provide for sun.com.... all 4 of them are active and reachable, and none are on sun's main network that sun.com or opensolaris.org are on. [08:24:08] *** reflect has quit IRC [08:24:31] <jamesd_> and sun.com and opensolaris are back [08:26:16] <moazamraja> Doc: it's not a server issue, more like a network problem [08:27:13] *** LuckyLuke has joined #opensolaris [08:27:41] *** theRealballchalk has joined #opensolaris [08:28:42] *** bengtf_ has joined #opensolaris [08:32:25] <Doc> jamesd: from memory the nameservers are outsourced, the webservers arent [08:33:06] *** tsoome has quit IRC [08:33:20] <pjd-> I cannot 'hg pull' from onnv-gate anymore: [08:33:21] <pjd-> ImportError: No module named mercurial [08:33:24] <jamesd_> obviously, since a single router failure took them out. [08:38:15] *** FBdev has joined #opensolaris [08:48:17] *** jollare has joined #opensolaris [08:50:30] *** jollare has left #opensolaris [08:55:55] *** bengtf has quit IRC [08:59:11] *** mikefut has joined #opensolaris [09:00:15] <CIA-25> sl147100: 6575701 BAD TRAP: type=e (#pf Page fault) in ehci_sendup_qtd_message() [09:00:27] *** hali has joined #opensolaris [09:00:27] *** hali_ has quit IRC [09:02:11] <boyd> Ok, here's a weird question... anyone know where I can find an audio recording of modem negotiaton of 300baud, 1200/75, 2400 or even 9600 modems? [09:02:22] *** Cyrille has joined #opensolaris [09:02:28] <Tempt> err [09:02:29] <Tempt> wow [09:02:38] <Tempt> You could dial into a modem and record it? [09:02:38] <Tempt> :) [09:02:40] <e^ipi> you're right [09:02:47] <e^ipi> that /is/ an odd question [09:02:48] <Tempt> I can give you my dialin number if you need one [09:02:58] <Tempt> It's an old USR Courier, so it'll negotiate down that low. [09:03:34] <boyd> Now all I need is a modem at my end.... :) [09:03:48] <Tempt> and sadly, I bet I could pick the difference between 300, 1200, 2400, 9600, 14400, VFC, V34 and V90 by ear [09:03:55] <Tempt> boyd: laptop doesn't have a modem? [09:04:49] <Tempt> I've got a couple of old 28k8s on the shelf at home, you're welcome to 'em. [09:05:40] <boyd> So could I (tell the difference). [09:06:01] <Tempt> The biggest difference was when people started getting 28k8s [09:06:11] <Tempt> No more long bee-ee-ee-ee-eep at the start of the 14k4 nego [09:06:20] <boyd> I'm wondering if many many hours of attack dialling to bulletin boards and then getting a carrier still causes the same Pavlovian response of happiness that it once did. [09:06:23] <Tempt> and the odd sound of the v.34 frequency probes [09:06:56] <Tempt> boyd: Sort-of, yes. [09:07:26] <Tempt> When you need 'net access in a hurry and dialup is the only way, the reassuring modem tones bring comfort. [09:10:01] <e^ipi> Tempt: I know I can tell the difference & I could probably still tell you which was which without being told [09:10:22] <WickedWicky> BOOOOOO! [09:11:22] <WickedWicky> Dial in modems started to get funny when they introduced 2 56K standards [09:12:34] <WickedWicky> and who doesnt remember the times that the office line to the internet was dual ISDN... those were the days [09:13:24] *** Gropi has joined #opensolaris [09:14:49] <pjd-> http://people.freebsd.org/~pjd/misc/zfs_add_replace.mpeg [09:14:49] <pjd-> http://people.freebsd.org/~pjd/misc/zfs_compression.mpeg [09:14:49] <pjd-> http://people.freebsd.org/~pjd/misc/zfs_self-healing.mpeg [09:14:49] <pjd-> http://people.freebsd.org/~pjd/misc/zfs_ufs-on-zvol.mpeg [09:14:52] <pjd-> :) [09:15:57] <e^ipi> ? [09:16:30] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris [09:18:34] *** theRealballchalk has left #opensolaris [09:21:06] * boyd out [09:21:13] <Tempt> cya! [09:21:31] *** Erwann has joined #opensolaris [09:22:36] *** jwit has quit IRC [09:23:03] <trochej> pjd-: Is zfs going to be available normally in FreeBSD, or by some magic? [09:25:07] *** theRealballchalk has joined #opensolaris [09:26:49] *** cydork has joined #opensolaris [09:32:22] *** jwit has joined #opensolaris [09:37:58] <pjd-> trochej: It will be in FreeBSD 7.0. [09:38:05] <trochej> pjd-: Thnx [09:38:23] <trochej> pjd-: I heard rumors that it won't easily available due to something I didn't understand :) [09:38:56] <pjd-> trochej: Heh, just rumors. [09:39:30] <WickedWicky> reboot time [09:39:31] <WickedWicky> brb [09:39:55] *** WickedWicky has quit IRC [09:41:04] <trochej> pjd-: Good to know :) [09:41:33] *** FBdev has joined #opensolaris [09:43:35] *** peemus has joined #opensolaris [09:47:56] *** WickedWicky has joined #opensolaris [09:48:20] <WickedWicky> awesome! I think I just brickified my home box [09:49:13] <peemus> that doesn't sound good [09:49:23] <WickedWicky> not really [09:49:54] <WickedWicky> ah well, I'll have a look when I'm home, I don't have that thing hanging on a console [09:56:12] *** NikolaVeber has joined #opensolaris [09:59:16] *** KermitTheFragger has joined #opensolaris [10:00:13] *** dmarker has quit IRC [10:00:23] *** dmarker has joined #opensolaris [10:04:05] *** cydork has quit IRC [10:05:27] <pjd-> trochej: freenode blocks private messages from me, but the answer is 'sure', just mail me the exact date so I can see I'm avilable. [10:06:09] <trochej> pjd-: We are planning 23,24 October next year, so there still is time. I'll get you on my reminder list around January, okay? [10:06:15] *** Wicky2 has joined #opensolaris [10:06:24] *** WickedWicky has quit IRC [10:06:29] *** Wicky2 is now known as WickedWicky [10:06:56] <pjd-> trochej: Ok, there are some conference I need to attend, so if yours doesn't colide with one of those, I'm all for it. [10:08:10] <trochej> pjd-: Ok, thanx. Will you be at UnixDays 2008? [10:08:53] <pjd-> trochej: No idea yet. [10:10:11] *** dodeskjeggen_ has joined #opensolaris [10:10:22] *** dodeskjeggen has quit IRC [10:14:38] *** Dar_HOME is now known as Dar [10:20:30] *** WickedWicky has quit IRC [10:20:32] *** cmihai has joined #OpenSolaris [10:21:18] *** FBdev has quit IRC [10:23:14] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris [10:24:29] *** sparcdr has joined #opensolaris [10:25:50] <sparcdr> hey wesolows _william_ richlowe flyingparchment [10:26:36] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris [10:29:26] *** FBdev has joined #opensolaris [10:37:25] <asyd> http://www.ffk-wilkinson.com/ !! [10:40:46] *** migi has joined #opensolaris [10:41:23] *** cydork has joined #opensolaris [10:41:33] <PerterB> that's a bit twisted [10:45:16] <sparcdr> o.o [10:45:49] <sparcdr> synching up blastwave is almost done :) [10:49:22] *** cydork has quit IRC [10:51:26] *** yarihm has joined #OpenSolaris [10:54:45] *** Fish has joined #opensolaris [10:55:31] <sparcdr> :o [10:55:46] *** seanmcg has joined #opensolaris [10:56:12] <Fish> hello [10:56:28] *** yongsun has quit IRC [10:57:24] *** sil3nt|warri0r has joined #opensolaris [10:58:49] *** timsf has joined #opensolaris [10:58:51] <sparcdr> hi Fish [10:58:58] <timsf> morning all [10:59:20] <sparcdr> g'morning :) [10:59:21] *** cydork has joined #opensolaris [11:00:06] <sparcdr> latest ON in mercurial? [11:00:16] <CIA-25> pk193450: 6591024 kadmind vulnerable to stack buffer overflow in RPCSEC_GSS [ MITKRB-SA-2007-006 ] [11:00:17] <CIA-25> yz147064: 6220365 ActorPortNumber computation could be improved, 6367825 Message size is incorrect when Nemo sends DL_NOTIFY_ACK, 6507483 the CACHE_IF_UPDATED flag in ip_rcm is not used, 6509647 do_check_rate() in dladm wifi might return unitialized error code, 6514482 the DLS_PROMISC_MULTI flag check is not needed to add the txloop function, 6573306 aggregation state is not updated in time., 6595696 aggregation port potentially will not be able to be a [11:02:17] *** uebayasi has quit IRC [11:02:25] <sparcdr> 112/1603 packages to go on CSW :) [11:05:22] *** Giacox has joined #opensolaris [11:05:28] <Giacox> morning [11:06:26] <Giacox> mates, how can I install php5 sapi modules on a small zone (cp: cannot create /usr/apache2/libexec/libphp5.so: Read-only file system) ? [11:06:51] <sparcdr> where are you copying the php module from? [11:07:06] <Giacox> I am installing it [11:07:15] <Giacox> that is the gmake install error [11:07:16] <sparcdr> from a package? [11:07:19] <sparcdr> oh [11:07:20] <Giacox> src [11:07:31] <Tempt> just download the coolstack [11:07:34] <Tempt> and pkgadd them [11:07:40] <Tempt> google for coolstack and away you go. [11:07:41] <sparcdr> have you tried creating a dummy file somewhere else in there? [11:07:50] <sparcdr> Tempt, some of us prefer from source [11:08:02] <Tempt> Well, you can't write to /usr in a sparse zone [11:08:03] <Giacox> i was following http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/features/articles/samp_setup.html [11:08:10] <sparcdr> yeah, it's shared [11:08:28] <sparcdr> Giacox, Zones use a pooled bin directory to save space [11:08:33] <Giacox> I'll take look at coolstack [11:08:36] <sparcdr> you'd install it into the master pool [11:08:44] <Tempt> sparcdr: The CSK packages are pretty good, I'm not seeing a compelling reason to compile apache/mysql/php [11:08:49] <sparcdr> not sure if that's the right wording [11:08:57] <sparcdr> Tempt, yeah I know [11:09:34] <sparcdr> still should be aware that it has to be installed from outside the zone, this includes other things too [11:09:54] <Tempt> Cluttering /usr isn't a particularly good idea either [11:09:59] <sparcdr> you can have it copy over the bins though and let it have its own [11:10:03] <Tempt> Even when compiling, /opt is a better target. [11:10:09] *** FBdev has quit IRC [11:10:14] <sparcdr> Tempt, on Solaris it's saner, yes [11:10:22] <Tempt> letting it copy over the bins means as soon as there's a patch or you upgrade, *BOOM* [11:10:29] <sparcdr> On other systems it doesnt really seem right [11:10:35] <sparcdr> haha [11:10:36] <sparcdr> :) [11:10:48] <Giacox> cool there is a amp package already [11:10:51] <sparcdr> upgrade!? what's that!? [11:10:53] <sparcdr> >:o [11:11:04] <Giacox> but isn't apache already in the system ? [11:11:17] <sparcdr> yeah actually I'm waiting until CSW is done so I can get SS11 for building ON, I have 12 :( [11:11:23] <sparcdr> Giacox, it is [11:11:38] <sparcdr> which is why some prefer source [11:11:45] <sparcdr> but there's packages for that too [11:11:53] <Tempt> CSK packages have everything you need. [11:12:14] <sparcdr> too many options, pkgsrc, blastwave, coolstack, and outdated versions on the companion [11:12:29] <Giacox> Tempt, why they said amd x64 optimized ? [11:12:40] <Giacox> will it run in intel cpu ? [11:12:46] <Giacox> on [11:12:47] <Tempt> no idea, I use SPARC. [11:13:04] <Giacox> never seen a sparc [11:13:14] <sparcdr> yeah [11:13:29] <sparcdr> I'm sure it will, Solaris is meant to have feature parity minus platform-specifics [11:13:40] <sparcdr> I've used from source and blastwave, but only the later in a zone [11:13:51] <Giacox> ok [11:14:13] <Giacox> I was wondering to install php5 from blastwave [11:14:16] <sparcdr> any general help with configuring I can probably do [11:14:23] <sparcdr> nah that pulls in more dependencies [11:14:38] <sparcdr> it's just cleaner to me when you have it already setup [11:14:54] <coffman> Giacox: will run fine on intel [11:14:59] <sparcdr> outmeal.get(); [11:15:02] <sparcdr> *oatmeal [11:15:07] <Giacox> ok I'll wait for the download of the csk [11:15:20] *** calumb has joined #opensolaris [11:15:48] <sparcdr> does it say SPARC in it Giacox [11:15:52] <sparcdr> if it does cancel it [11:16:07] <Giacox> I get x86 [11:16:14] <sparcdr> I would assume coolstack would also apply to x86/x86_64 since Sun's goal is to make efficient systems, although cool moreover applies to T1/2 [11:16:25] <sparcdr> it'll work on generic systems of course [11:16:35] <coffman> would not use php5 from blastwave, its build on solaris 7 or 8 [11:16:46] <Giacox> one question: what happen to the apache2 in the system after installed the csk pkg ? [11:16:58] <sparcdr> coffman, least common denominator, if you have mass deployment it's still more friendly [11:17:04] <sparcdr> nothing Giacox [11:17:10] <sparcdr> you need to set a few env variables [11:17:15] <sparcdr> so it prefers the new one [11:18:08] <Giacox> ah I remeber to used /opt/coolstack/squid time ago [11:18:29] <Giacox> I will not ever reach to speak english [11:18:33] <sparcdr> you have x64 right? [11:18:36] <Giacox> yes [11:18:44] <sparcdr> alright good [11:18:45] <Giacox> 2 xeon dual core [11:18:54] <coffman> Giacox: aeh, for mass deployment i would not use blastwave or coolstack [11:18:55] <sparcdr> cause I don't think Coolstack supports regular x86 [11:19:20] <sparcdr> coffman, what would you use? (There's pkgsrc, portage, blastwave, sunfreeware, sun's, and from source) [11:19:32] <coffman> sparcdr: pmpkg [11:19:35] <sparcdr> I'd rather use coolstack now that I've looked at it [11:19:38] <sparcdr> pmpkg? [11:19:42] <coffman> is what im using [11:19:45] <Giacox> coffman, in fact I would like to use the correct ./configure options to put php sapi modules in /opt [11:19:53] <sparcdr> not aware of pmpkg [11:20:02] <Giacox> but I don't know how to tell apache to look overthere [11:20:11] <sparcdr> Giacox, it's php that matters [11:20:14] <coffman> sparcdr: # [11:20:26] <coffman> sparcdr: http://unix.freshmeat.net/projects/pmpkg/ [11:20:38] <sparcdr> ./configure --prefix=/opt/php5 --configopts --with-apxs2=/opt/apache2/bin/apxs for instance [11:21:09] <sparcdr> configopts eg: iconv, mcrypt, mhash, gd, etc [11:21:15] <sparcdr> but it's not a quick solution [11:21:16] <Giacox> I must setup a php/apache to get data from an oracle db and store in mysql, after I must put a radius server that can read over mysql [11:21:21] <sparcdr> that's neat coffman [11:21:53] <sparcdr> you'll need oracle db support, and I don't know if coolstack has the php extension [11:21:58] <Tempt> why use mysql if you've got Oracle? [11:22:20] <sparcdr> Oracle's costing you an arm and a leg anyways [11:22:23] <sparcdr> use it [11:22:26] <Giacox> Tempt, because I don't know anything of politics [11:22:34] <sparcdr> politics means nothing [11:22:46] <sparcdr> php works with oracle [11:22:47] <Giacox> my chiefs do [11:23:04] <sparcdr> it's a technical issue, they need to know that you can use oracle with radius [11:23:10] <Tempt> Oh, it just strikes me that pull data out of Oracle into mysql is like siphoning fuel from a porsche into a lawnmower [11:23:13] <sparcdr> they're thinking inside their own box obviously [11:23:20] <Giacox> I give them your cell [11:23:53] <sparcdr> sorry? no. I don't do oracle, but I know that you don't need to gobble up 2x the ram to use a lawnmower [11:24:33] <Tempt> blah [11:24:44] <Tempt> MySQL is getting pretty RAM hungry these days once you tune up for any load [11:25:08] <Tempt> Oracle just looks mean and nasty in prstat because of the huge shared memory [11:25:17] <coffman> mysql is evil [11:25:37] <trochej> mysql is mysql [11:25:39] <trochej> End of story [11:25:41] <coffman> postgres or firebird seems to be a better choice [11:25:46] <Tempt> and to be honest, in my experience once you've got any more load than some ditzy web app, oracle wins all over the place. [11:27:46] *** simford has quit IRC [11:28:58] <Giacox> Tempt, but do I install the pkg in the global ? [11:28:59] <Giacox> ## Executing postinstall script. [11:29:00] <Giacox> ln: cannot create /usr/sfw/lib/libssl.so.0.9.7: Read-only file system [11:29:00] <Giacox> ln: cannot create /usr/sfw/lib/libcrypto.so.0.9.7: Read-only file system [11:30:44] <sparcdr> yeah sun prefers postgresql, I wonder why? well, one licensing, two performance, and RDMS features lacking in MySQL. MySQL is popular because all the tux lapdogs can't find alternatives [11:31:30] <sparcdr> Giacox, symlink it from outside the zone [11:31:53] <sparcdr> hardlink I believe actually [11:33:08] *** bnitz has joined #opensolaris [11:33:11] <Giacox> than could I continue to install php5 from source using hardlinks [11:33:18] <sparcdr> no [11:33:25] <coffman> sparcdr: there are some third party vendors that use postgres for there enterprise db thing [11:33:28] <sparcdr> install will still fail from in the zone [11:33:35] <sparcdr> coffman, really? [11:33:45] <sparcdr> fwiw csw packages are built against SunOS 5.8 (S10) [11:33:50] <sparcdr> on i386 that is [11:34:15] <sparcdr> but they're not 64-bit capable, so it's not a debate which to use, especially if we're talking for heavy load [11:34:39] <sparcdr> s/for/about [11:35:11] <sparcdr> hoping Sun will call me back today about a system, gonna get an Ultra-20 M2 [11:35:39] <sparcdr> :) [11:36:16] <sparcdr> daggon blastwave archive yet scurvy dog, downloads the size of the grand canyon sheesh get on with it! [11:36:42] <Giacox> after installing a pkg where I find docs or info on how to configure it ? [11:36:56] <sparcdr> Giacox, generic apache docs and php docs [11:37:09] <sparcdr> you need to start it though, should have a svc [11:37:19] <sparcdr> read up on SMF on sun docs [11:38:38] *** jmcp has quit IRC [11:39:04] *** jmcp has joined #opensolaris [11:44:23] <sparcdr> my oatmeal is bigger than your oatmeal, neener! [11:51:27] <Symmetria> hrm [11:51:27] <Symmetria> apache status module is onc rack [11:51:27] <Symmetria> crack I mean [11:51:37] <Tempt> sparcdr: Buying direct from Sun? [11:53:20] <sparcdr> Tempt, rather I did [11:53:49] <Giacox> sparcdr, but souldn't I have 2 smf ? one for the system apache and one for csk apache ? [11:53:51] <sparcdr> there are many vendors that are more of a ripoff. I wont buy more than 2gb of ram with them or get any upgrades except hardware [11:53:59] <sparcdr> yes Giacox [11:54:03] <sparcdr> you can create services [11:54:06] <sparcdr> you might need to [11:54:15] <Tempt> Oh, its just my experience that Sun resellers often deliver a better deal than Sun direct. [11:54:20] <sparcdr> svcprop, svcadm are the commands to lookup [11:54:44] <sparcdr> Tempt, then find me an Ultra-20 M2 Medium or Large config for less than 2 grand with hardware warrenty extension [11:54:57] <Tempt> Hey, I don't know your local market. [11:55:00] <sparcdr> well large is about 2200 [11:55:10] <sparcdr> im in the us, shipping it even if i saved 200 bucks would be futile [11:55:26] <Tempt> I'd at least get a quote from someone local. [11:55:29] <Tempt> Can't hurt. [11:55:30] <sparcdr> i trust sun directly, and ive had good experience with them, ill take the premium if it's not more than 200 bones [11:55:33] <sparcdr> local? [11:55:36] <sparcdr> you dont know where I'm at [11:55:51] <Tempt> I gather you don't have a local? [11:55:52] <sparcdr> I'm not in San Francisco, and I'm not in a metropolitan area [11:55:56] <sparcdr> no [11:56:02] <sparcdr> Unless 100mi is local [11:56:25] <sparcdr> I can't buy it outright and dealing with my bank is less than fun. I have good credit anyways. [11:56:46] <Tempt> anyway, the Ultra 20s are good boxes. [11:56:48] <sparcdr> again, I don't care as long as the "better" deal is only 200 bucks less, because shipping and warrenty issues come up [11:56:52] <Tempt> Mine has given me no hassles at all. [11:56:55] <sparcdr> thanks for the info [11:56:56] <sparcdr> great [11:56:58] <sparcdr> which config [11:57:05] <Tempt> Mine's a first gen, not an M2 [11:57:13] <sparcdr> ah [11:57:26] <sparcdr> yeah if I get one I'll be smoking you with a 1214 opteron :P [11:57:34] <Tempt> Opteron 152 or something like that [11:57:36] <Tempt> 2Gb ECC [11:57:39] <sparcdr> yeah [11:57:40] <Tempt> 2 x 250Gb spindles [11:57:47] <sparcdr> exactly what I'd get minus dual disks [11:57:48] <Tempt> dual channel LSI SCSI hba [11:57:53] <Tempt> Quadro FX something-or-other [11:58:27] <sparcdr> they have 1500 series quadro in large config, which is a 256mb card based on the 7800 gtx (One of the best nvidias, even against 8000 series desktop cards) [11:58:39] <Tempt> I think this one is an FX1400 [11:58:44] <sparcdr> anyways i wont buy storage from them, that's for sure [11:58:47] <Tempt> and the gaming performance isn't stellar, but good enough. [11:58:54] <sparcdr> it's not a gaming card [11:59:12] <Tempt> I know it's not a gaming card, hence mentioning the performance aspect. [11:59:14] <sparcdr> if you wanted a gaming card and had only 250 bucks you'd get a 8600 gt [11:59:24] <sparcdr> i can run games fine on my notebook [11:59:31] <Tempt> If I had to look for downsides [11:59:32] <sparcdr> this is more for Java and C/C++ work [11:59:38] <Tempt> Only one external facing drivebay [11:59:44] <Tempt> and the onboard sound is arse [11:59:49] <sparcdr> what's that mean? [11:59:55] <Tempt> crap [11:59:56] <Tempt> shite [11:59:57] <Tempt> horrible [11:59:59] <Tempt> disable it. [12:00:07] <sparcdr> is the sound about the same as a regular machine? cause i dont have 5.1 stereo or anything [12:00:25] <Tempt> Worse than my Blade-1000 [12:00:42] <sparcdr> the Ultra-2 has shite sound too [12:00:47] <Tempt> But, sound cards are cheap. [12:00:50] <flyingparchment> that's a shame, i thought onboard sound was usually fairly reasonable these days [12:00:55] <sparcdr> we'll see how bad it is, i wont doubt you [12:00:57] <flyingparchment> (if you don't need a lot of features) [12:01:02] <sparcdr> it is flyingparchment just not in ultra-20 apparently [12:01:08] <Tempt> All I want is two clean channels [12:01:13] <Tempt> with a reasonably flat response [12:01:20] <Tempt> The Ultra-20's sound is noisy and tinny. [12:01:23] <sparcdr> okay [12:01:26] *** kloczek has quit IRC [12:01:32] <sparcdr> aside from sound, issues? [12:01:40] <Tempt> Err [12:01:41] <Tempt> That's it [12:01:42] <sparcdr> how much heat, and how much power consumption? [12:01:45] <Tempt> Perhaps too quiet? [12:01:48] <Tempt> You don't know it's on? [12:01:49] <sparcdr> great [12:01:57] <Tempt> And the power LED is waaay too bright [12:02:05] <sparcdr> stupid Octane2 sounds like a leaf blower embedded in your ear, well the t2000 is worse [12:02:06] *** kloczek has joined #opensolaris [12:02:08] <sparcdr> cool i like shiny [12:02:09] <sparcdr> :O [12:02:12] *** cydork has quit IRC [12:02:17] <Tempt> As in, you'll be sticking tape over it [12:02:20] <dlg> Tempt: no video toaster? [12:02:33] <sparcdr> Tempt, quality? [12:02:39] <Tempt> As for power consumption, I have no idea over the Blade-1000 and the 880 [12:02:46] <Tempt> Build quality is lovely. [12:02:56] <Tempt> heatpipes and everything [12:02:57] <sparcdr> enclosure rigidness? [12:03:12] <Tempt> I haven't dropped it, so I can't comment :) [12:03:20] <sparcdr> what about disk io [12:03:21] <Tempt> To be honest, I did the numbers [12:03:24] <sparcdr> are they good disks [12:03:27] <Tempt> The Ultra-20 is cheaper than a whitebox [12:03:32] <Tempt> Just Seagates [12:03:33] <sparcdr> im sure it is [12:03:38] <sparcdr> are they fast though? [12:03:49] <sparcdr> i expect about 50mb/s sustained on disks [12:03:58] <Tempt> If you buy a whitebox with a Tyan motherboard, Lian Li case, proper drive bays, ECC ram etc it'll cost more [12:04:07] <Tempt> No idea about disk performance [12:04:11] <sparcdr> i have a Sata-II on this notebook, can handle 35mb/s at 5400rpm [12:04:17] <Tempt> Disks are there to boot the OS, not store data. [12:04:20] <sparcdr> it's 7200rpm, so id assume up to 60 [12:04:26] <Tempt> Fileservers are there to serve data. [12:04:52] <sparcdr> Tempt, swapping for instance is a concern, slow disks is bad performance. even with memory, building things are dependent on it [12:05:00] <sparcdr> and let me pull another 2400 out of my ass, kthx [12:05:28] <Tempt> Well, if disk performance is *that* critical you might want a big stripe set of 15krpm drives on a better interface [12:05:33] <sparcdr> noyb, i dont need storage, if i needed a lot of storage and didnt need redundancy id get a lacie 1tb external disk, or if i needed it a few smaller disks [12:05:41] <sparcdr> it's not critical [12:05:51] <Tempt> But honestly, it's a workstation and does a fine job of being a workstation. [12:06:00] <sparcdr> is it typical of modern pcs or is it slow, that's my question, if it's fast enough for the os, it's fast enough for me [12:06:23] <sparcdr> anyways thanks for all the info [12:07:03] <sparcdr> now, sun needs to stop taking extended lunchbreaks 3 hours before they close shop. they say they close at 5pm pdt, and i call at 2:40, we're closed, thx. :/ [12:07:16] <sparcdr> me money no go to you, thx [12:09:30] <Vanuatoo> will upcoming sxde contain gnome 2.20? [12:09:42] *** sil3nt|warri0r has quit IRC [12:12:48] <sparcdr> probably Vanuatoo [12:12:53] <sparcdr> not gnome per se though [12:13:09] <sparcdr> it's merely called JDS or Java Desktop System, they backport every quarter or so a lot of the changes [12:13:16] <Vanuatoo> I know JDS, but would it be based on gnome 2.20 [12:13:20] <sparcdr> don't hold your breath if it doesn't happen for a while [12:13:31] *** calumb is now known as calAFK [12:13:32] <sparcdr> SCXE probably will see it first [12:20:06] *** g4lt-sb100 has joined #opensolaris [12:20:38] *** g4lt-yarrrrr has quit IRC [12:24:31] <sickness> I can't wait to try indiana+vx =) [12:24:38] <sickness> when will it be out? [12:26:15] <sparcdr> :o [12:26:22] <sparcdr> end of year [12:26:37] <sickness> oki tnx :) [12:26:37] <sparcdr> not in GA solaris obviously [12:28:19] <Giacox> suxness [12:28:41] <Giacox> sickness, mi vieni a mettere apache, mysql e php ? [12:37:43] *** capitano has joined #opensolaris [12:38:22] *** Giacox has quit IRC [12:38:40] <sparcdr> o.o [12:39:00] *** Atomdrache has quit IRC [12:45:19] *** cydork has joined #opensolaris [12:48:26] *** triplah_ has joined #opensolaris [12:48:31] *** calAFK is now known as calumb [12:49:02] *** triplah_ has quit IRC [12:49:13] *** trip_ has joined #opensolaris [12:49:45] <sparcdr> ;o [12:53:49] *** kFuQ has quit IRC [12:53:50] *** bengtf has quit IRC [12:55:02] <coffman> sickness: b75 is having some xvm stuff [12:56:14] *** kFuQ has joined #opensolaris [12:57:16] <sickness> coffman: yeah, I've seen the flag thing [12:57:18] <quasi> coffman: xen [12:57:53] <sparcdr> hello [12:58:05] * sparcdr pets #opensolaris ^_^ [12:58:12] *** Gionni5 has joined #opensolaris [12:58:36] *** capitano has quit IRC [12:58:44] *** Gionni5 is now known as Giacox [13:04:45] <Giacox> I can't find the smf for the apache installed with the cks amp pkg [13:05:13] <jamesd_> Giaco, csk-http [13:05:36] <Giacox> After installation, please refer to the README file included in each of the application's directories. [13:05:37] <jamesd_> actaully you have to import them there are instructions on the web on how to do it... [13:06:03] <jamesd_> google cool stack smf apache [13:06:54] <Giacox> Cybertron # svcs -a | grep http [13:06:55] <Giacox> disabled 9:35:36 svc:/network/http:apache2 [13:06:58] <Giacox> was there [13:06:59] <Giacox> thanks [13:07:24] <jamesd_> no that is the one that comes with *solaris 10+ [13:07:35] <Giacox> cool I have a lot of apaches [13:07:44] <jamesd_> 2 come with the system.... [13:07:56] <Cyrille> you can start a tribe [13:08:21] <jamesd_> http://blogs.sun.com/shanti/entry/smf_support_for_apache_in [13:08:22] <Giacox> than I need a tactical comanche and I can invade some near state [13:08:27] <sparcdr> :O [13:08:31] <sparcdr> blah [13:08:42] *** deather_ has joined #opensolaris [13:08:45] <Giacox> comanche's are invisible [13:08:57] <sparcdr> Giacox, you have to import the smf entry for CSK [13:09:59] *** deather has quit IRC [13:10:00] *** FelipeBare has joined #opensolaris [13:10:01] *** deather_ is now known as deather [13:10:46] *** snuff-work has joined #opensolaris [13:16:22] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris [13:16:58] <trygvis> how long can a VGA or DVI cable be before you need some sort of repeater? [13:18:06] <Giacox> I've seen vga cable of 15 meters [13:18:54] <coffman> trygvis: vga ~10m is max for decent quality, dvi is about 5m [13:19:39] <quasi> coffman: I've gotten 15M in perfect quality, but only by using a shielded cable [13:19:59] <trygvis> hm, that's a bit too short [13:20:16] <quasi> trygvis: sunray [13:20:17] <trygvis> perhaps I can wire it the other way and have longer audio cables [13:20:20] <coffman> quasi: yeah, with good cable its oki [13:20:36] <coffman> cat5 is pretty good for that [13:21:15] <quasi> trygvis: long audio cables are certainly cheaper as well [13:21:38] <trygvis> true [13:22:11] <quasi> trygvis: the alternative would be to buy something kvm over ip [13:22:16] <coffman> for long vga you can solder a cable from cat5/6 [13:22:47] <quasi> coffman: quality would be severely lacking [13:27:17] *** Gropi has quit IRC [13:27:21] *** NikolaVeber has quit IRC [13:27:38] <sparcdr> o.o [13:27:41] *** Gropi has joined #opensolaris [13:27:55] <sparcdr> hi2u #opensolaris [13:28:00] *** ichigo has joined #opensolaris [13:34:07] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC [13:36:48] *** kadath has quit IRC [13:37:11] *** kadath has joined #opensolaris [13:39:10] *** darrenm has joined #opensolaris [13:41:01] *** pjlv has quit IRC [13:41:09] <darrenm> richlowe: quick mercurial question... [13:41:49] <darrenm> richlowe: how do I get a something like 'hg log -l10' output for a remote repository, ie before I pull onnv-gate I want to pick a particular changeset (that isn't a tag). [13:45:14] *** rasputnik has joined #opensolaris [13:45:19] *** Giacox has quit IRC [13:45:44] <rasputnik> anybody used mpathadm much? My multipathing seems a little flaky today, wondered if its reliable [13:52:07] *** FBdev has joined #opensolaris [13:52:51] *** FBdev has quit IRC [13:53:51] *** FBdev has joined #opensolaris [13:54:45] <jmcp> rasputnik: explain [13:55:29] *** LeftWing has quit IRC [13:55:51] <sickness> little question [13:55:55] <trygvis> omfg: http://crave.cnet.co.uk/0,39029477,49292857,00.htm [13:55:58] <rasputnik> I'm moving a zpool (mirror made of FCAL luns) from one v210 to another. I 'zpool export ' on one side, then when I 'zpool import' on the other end, I get a load of scsi errors (will pastebin now) [13:56:35] <sickness> is it possible to boot with belenix, cdrom or usb, then lofimount an installation iso like snv72 on /cdrom, and then start the text installer to install on a local harddisk? [13:57:17] <rasputnik> I'm wondering if maybe I'm not detaching the LUNs cleanly. They're not used after 'zpool export', right? [13:57:26] <sickness> that way I could save the hassle to burn a dvd-rw every 2 weeks and/or to keep 2 times the 4gb root full install for lu on the notebook's hard drive... [13:58:06] *** nostoi has joined #opensolaris [13:58:16] <jmcp> rasputnik: so how is that a problem with mpathadm or mpxio? [13:58:36] *** xOmega has joined #opensolaris [13:59:32] <rasputnik> jmcp: I don't know if it is, but sometimes it's timing out on one path then trying the other. I think it's the SAN really, just not sure how to workaround [13:59:40] <mlh> jmcp: there's a question there: "They're not used after 'zpool export', right?" [13:59:52] <mlh> rasputnik: what do the logs say [14:00:01] <jmcp> mlh: it's a kinda vague question, actually [14:00:15] <jmcp> rasputnik: how about using pastebin to show some logfile entries about it [14:00:18] <mlh> try though [14:00:37] <rasputnik> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/704485 [14:00:42] <jmcp> ta [14:01:05] <rasputnik> If I import it back on the first box, it's fine - no errors or anything else. [14:01:37] <jmcp> "the first box" is not mecmde102 ? [14:01:54] <rasputnik> jcmp : that's mecmdel01 [14:01:59] *** LeftWing has joined #OpenSolaris [14:02:20] <rasputnik> SAN is zoned so both boxes can see both LUNs [14:02:49] <jmcp> really? did it work before now? [14:02:56] <jmcp> the Command Timeout is a problem [14:03:30] <darrenm> sickness: use live upgrade and you can (I always do) use it by using lofi on the .iso file [14:03:35] <rasputnik> jmcp: yeah, been fine for weeks. the 'command/retrying' thing is why I wondered if there was a way to see what multipathing was up to [14:03:41] <jmcp> rasputnik: is your ssd1 from a ST6140? [14:03:42] *** kszwed has joined #opensolaris [14:04:14] <jmcp> rasputnik: my advice is to check the error counts on each host's hbas, and on the switch that you're using [14:04:43] <rasputnik> jmcp: SAN switch is a Brocade Silkworm 48000 and the Storage Processor is a DS4800. Cards are Qlogics [14:04:44] <jmcp> but since you don't have a problem re-importing the lun to the original host, I'm really inclined towards checking the zoning and permission maps on the actual array [14:05:01] *** calumb is now known as calLNCH [14:05:50] <rasputnik> jmcp: If i go ahead and import the pool on 02, it appears to come in but I get read errors on each side of the mirror (which ZFS isn't too keen on, unsurprisingly) [14:06:07] <jmcp> pastebin the read errors [14:07:41] <sickness> darrenm: ok I do this too, but I don't want to keep 2 full root systems on a laptop [14:08:01] <darrenm> why not - you lacking space ? [14:08:09] <darrenm> I have often have 3 on my laptop :-) [14:08:33] <sickness> darrenm: I had even 4 on my workstation, but I don't want to lose space on that particular laptop... [14:09:03] <quasi> eek, I think this E4500 is close to death - [AFT1] Uncorrectable Memory Error on CPU0 at TL=0 [14:09:09] <sickness> darrenm: so I was thinking about booting a livecd like belenix or from usb, lofimount the iso image from nfs, and run the install script from here, would it be possible at all? [14:09:38] <sickness> it should be like running the install script from a working system to install on another partition, for example, and I know that could be done... [14:11:06] <rasputnik> jcmp: http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/704497 - this time it's only one half of the mirror. Maybe it is a zone thing? [14:11:14] <rasputnik> san zone I mean. [14:11:55] <sparcdr> quasi, ouch, don't feel bad, if I strain the disk on my Octane2 it has seek errors and make a really neato alarm noise :D [14:12:27] * sparcdr pets Sun (Now call me back!) [14:14:20] <jmcp> rasputnik: there's something else going on there which I can't quite figure out. [14:14:25] <rasputnik> but then, should'nt mpathadm list one of the paths as bad? http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/704501 [14:14:36] <rasputnik> jmcp: welcome to my world :) [14:14:47] *** master_o1_master has joined #opensolaris [14:14:55] <jmcp> all you've told mpathadm to do is list the logical units [14:15:16] <jmcp> how about the output from cfgadm -lav -o show_FCP_dev c4 [14:15:31] *** toblun has quit IRC [14:15:48] <quasi> sparcdr: I just wish this box wasn't still productiop ;( [14:16:17] <sparcdr> :( [14:16:43] <quasi> oh well, that'll teach them to keep old junk running [14:16:49] <sparcdr> quasi, my SGI does fine I just am a cheap a$$ and can't afford to shell out more money atm for disks, so I use my SGI over NFS for VMware storage [14:17:02] <rasputnik> jcmp : c4: No matching library found [14:17:22] <sparcdr> Mines not old junk per se, beats most of the systems here, but it's upgraded. I just happened to put a lot of strain on the disks, which we all know = death [14:17:52] <dlg> sparcdr: which sgi? [14:17:57] <sparcdr> quasi, what kind of workload does the server function as? [14:18:07] <sparcdr> dlg: Octane2 V8 with R12K and 2GB [14:18:20] <dlg> and the storage? [14:18:25] <sparcdr> 73GB SCSI [14:18:30] <sparcdr> not sure the make [14:18:34] <jmcp> rasputnik: how about just cfgadm -lav c4 [14:18:37] <sparcdr> Guessing Fujitsu [14:18:42] <dlg> vanilla xfs, or something cool? [14:18:43] <quasi> sparcdr: I don't know I've only been working here for a few weeks [14:18:45] <sparcdr> It's 6 years old [14:18:47] <dlg> like dmf [14:18:48] <sparcdr> nah just xfs [14:18:52] <dlg> aww [14:18:53] <sparcdr> xdm you mean [14:18:57] <dlg> no [14:18:59] <sparcdr> xlv I mean [14:18:59] <rasputnik> jmcp: no, same error [14:19:04] <dlg> thats something else [14:19:09] <sparcdr> what's dmf? [14:19:17] <dlg> its like sam-fs [14:19:20] <jmcp> rasputnik: on mecmde102 ? [14:19:21] <dlg> data migration facility [14:19:24] <sparcdr> ah [14:19:25] <dlg> very cool stuff [14:19:28] <jmcp> dlg: only much, much betterrerererer [14:19:32] <sparcdr> not too useful for me :) [14:19:38] <axisys> i have no entry of telnet in my inetd.conf, bu telnet is enable.. how is that possible? [14:19:41] <dlg> jmcp: which ones better? [14:19:44] <rasputnik> jmcp: yeah [14:19:49] <dlg> or shouldnt i have to ask? [14:19:50] <jmcp> dlg: samfs is better than xfs [14:20:01] <jmcp> rasputnik: that's quite strange [14:20:04] <sparcdr> I <3 xfs, it's probably the only thing keeping the box from turning into a loud toaster, I need to get around to replacing the disk, it's only 70 bucks [14:20:30] <dlg> jmcp: xfs and samfs are apples and oranges [14:20:35] <sparcdr> yeah [14:20:38] * dlg has had a lot of coffee from vendors to figure that out [14:20:41] <jmcp> heh [14:20:45] <sparcdr> this is for standalone use, more of a proving ground for making sure stuff is cross-platform [14:20:49] <rasputnik> jmcp: I don't have c4 , I've got c2 and c3 (those are the fcal disks) [14:20:54] <sparcdr> also very nice for audio [14:21:06] <jmcp> rasputnik: there's my tiredness showing. c4 is the scsi_vhci instance [14:21:07] <darrenm> xfs == X font server :-) [14:21:13] <sparcdr> haha darrenm no [14:21:14] <sparcdr> :P [14:21:23] <jmcp> anyway... rasputnik ok, so try cfgadm -lav -o show_FCP_dev c2 and c3 [14:21:25] <sparcdr> Xtremely Fast Stuff! [14:21:35] <sparcdr> sorry couldn't resist [14:21:40] <darrenm> man xfs on Solaris and thats what it says :-) Yes I know there is an xfs filesystem too! [14:21:50] <sparcdr> just a few segments are being dumb on the disk [14:21:55] <sparcdr> no such thing as badblocks ;/ [14:22:12] <sparcdr> so i have to occasionally let it die out on a failing transfer, it self-recovers though [14:22:38] <sparcdr> only when i strain it with teeny files and huge blocks when it does it [14:22:49] *** trip_ has quit IRC [14:22:54] <sparcdr> ie: 2gb files, 10000 files [14:23:08] <sparcdr> not both at once, it's not a StorageTek array [14:23:12] <rasputnik> jmcp: http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/704509 [14:23:17] <sparcdr> :o hah! [14:23:21] <sparcdr> now that's funny [14:23:29] <sparcdr> sorry, just reading something dumb [14:23:30] <sparcdr> :P [14:23:42] <sparcdr> this Das Keyboard owns [14:24:02] <sparcdr> Sun Type 5/6 and IBM Model M (&varients) are the way to go [14:24:58] <jmcp> rasputnik: ok, that looks fine ... how about fcinfo hba-port -lsv [14:25:08] <jmcp> a command line which I think will work but I'm not totally sure will work [14:25:21] <sparcdr> any reasonable way to trim SDX? [14:25:27] <sparcdr> post-install wise that is [14:27:12] *** master_of_master has quit IRC [14:28:32] *** phus has quit IRC [14:29:13] <rasputnik> jmcp: it sorta works : http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/704518 - lot of CRC errors on c2 [14:29:34] <jmcp> you should investigate that further, via a support call [14:29:46] <jmcp> my guess is that you have either a bad cable, or a bad gbic [14:29:54] <jmcp> replace the cable first - it's cheaper :-) [14:30:01] <sparcdr> hmm having trouble thinking of a nodename for another box [14:30:14] <jmcp> sparcdr: "nodename" [14:30:18] * jmcp chortles [14:30:18] <sparcdr> lol [14:30:26] <rasputnik> jmcp: that'll do for me. Cheers (the 'real' solaris guys are off this week, so I was flapping) [14:30:35] <jmcp> rasputnik: you could try, as a simple experiment, just yanking the cable out from c2 and then trying the zpool import [14:30:42] <Chipdancer> jmcp: know anybody who might want to buy a second hand ql2100 fc hba? [14:30:43] <sparcdr> geigercounter! boo ya. Why not, I have Uranium and Xray [14:30:44] <jmcp> nowurriesmate [14:30:55] <darrenm> sparcdr: reminds me of when I was in SunService eyars ago and a new hire was shocked that we got to pick our own hostnames - he was used to highly structured location based naming [14:30:56] <jmcp> sparcdr: toomanysyllables [14:31:08] <rasputnik> jmcp: last dumb question - how do I know which is c2? [14:31:11] <sparcdr> ahah [14:31:14] <jmcp> darrenm: I guess he wouldn't have appreciated ENOSPACE [14:31:30] <jmcp> rasputnik: what sort of host is it? [14:31:33] <sparcdr> darrenm, you work for sun? [14:31:38] <rasputnik> jmcp: it's a v210 [14:31:42] * jmcp checks something [14:31:49] <darrenm> sparcdr: yep almost 11 years [14:32:16] <sparcdr> tell them bums in leasing to call me back today [14:32:21] <darrenm> jmcp: ping enospc.uk :-) [14:32:33] <jmcp> rasputnik: pci slot 0, port 0. It might well have an orange light on, too [14:32:45] <jmcp> darrenm: no need ... as long as ChrisG is there, things are a.ok! [14:32:46] <darrenm> sparcdr: I'm a developer and have no idea how we do leasing - sorry [14:32:50] <rasputnik> jmcp: thanks again mate [14:33:01] <jmcp> you're welcome [14:33:14] <jmcp> don't forget to try the test and log that call [14:33:30] <darrenm> jmcp: I think the use of enotty was even cuter [14:33:33] <sparcdr> darrenm, not asking, money dangling for you guys [14:34:13] <sparcdr> they seem to take extended lunchbreaks. I called at 2pm and they close at 5pm. Happened 3 times already. [14:34:15] <jmcp> darrenm: that's the sunray server, correct? [14:34:21] <darrenm> hdhybl g [14:34:31] <rasputnik> jmcp: oh yeah I will. I'm doing a demo of how zone failover is going to save us a load of hassle compared to ibms suggested plan, so it was bound to fail really :) [14:34:41] <darrenm> sorry that was my 15 week old sonat keyboard [14:34:46] <jmcp> rasputnik: of course ... just askin' for trouble! [14:34:47] <darrenm> enotty is the console server [14:34:56] <jmcp> that's right [14:35:03] <sparcdr> haha no problem, I prefer Model M's (Soviet Era), tactile feedback is own [14:35:04] <jmcp> been a while since I connected to it [14:35:54] <darrenm> enoexec/estale/eagain are sun ray servers [14:35:59] <darrenm> enospc is nfs server [14:36:17] <darrenm> cute naming [14:36:32] <rasputnik> right, off for lunch. I owe you a beer James [14:36:52] <sparcdr> hey, my name is James! [14:37:02] <Chipdancer> me too [14:37:03] <sparcdr> I don't like beer, howbout hound sun for a followup! [14:37:04] <Chipdancer> :) [14:37:15] <sparcdr> cool Chipdancer [14:37:23] <sparcdr> too many James' in this room [14:37:42] <sparcdr> Why can't we leave Bob and John to be the boring and overused names!? [14:38:15] *** ashner has quit IRC [14:38:21] <darrenm> and my middle name is James do I get beer too ? [14:38:22] * Chipdancer wanders off to bed [14:38:25] <sparcdr> So I was considering an Ultra-20 M2, but give me your honest opinion, how big is the difference between the 2218 and the 1218 Opteron? [14:38:33] <sparcdr> darrenm, lol, mine's Russell :/ [14:38:37] *** perlmonk has joined #opensolaris [14:39:00] <cmihai> sparcdr, 1000 [14:39:09] <sparcdr> No not price wise cmihai [14:39:40] <sparcdr> I know it's about $800 between High U-20 and U-40 (Medium) [14:39:57] <sparcdr> expansion wise it's more wise, but I'm asking about performance here [14:40:10] <cmihai> Well, one is 1 way, one is 2 way [14:40:19] <sparcdr> I know that :) that's why I asked [14:40:20] <cmihai> If you only have one of each... [14:40:29] <cmihai> It won't make much of a difference. [14:40:37] <sparcdr> but the main difference besides one more socket is a newer Opteron [14:40:53] <darrenm> IIRC if it begins with a 2 it is qualfied for use in dual socket machines if it begins with a 1 it is single socket only - I could be out of date or remembering wronly though [14:40:59] <sparcdr> okay, that's what I wanted to hear. Plus there's Barcelona anyways for the single socket [14:41:17] <sparcdr> darrenm, dont seem to use that on the configs [14:41:30] <jmcp> yeah, that's my recollection too about the opteron numbering scheme [14:41:33] <sparcdr> They have Config 1-3 and all of them are M2 as they are second gen [14:41:47] <sparcdr> Ultra-20 is single, Ultra-40 is dual [14:41:54] <darrenm> Barcelona looks yummy looking forward to the large N socket machines with barecleona chips in them for "large" value of N :-) [14:41:59] <cmihai> 1Well, that's the idea [14:42:04] <jmcp> gnite all [14:42:05] <cmihai> if it starts with 1, it's 1 way capable [14:42:08] <cmihai> 2 - 2 way capable [14:42:09] <quasi> darrenm: don't we all? [14:42:12] <cmihai> 8 - 8 way capable. [14:42:15] <cmihai> Cores don't count. [14:42:18] <cmihai> Only sockets. [14:42:21] <sparcdr> large value of 8 way SMP making me cream myself when I can muster the upgrade, having that ability is nice (To have a second) [14:42:33] <sparcdr> Cores count, they're darned close to sockets these day [14:42:45] <sparcdr> Might as well be, they're handled basically the same way [14:42:54] <darrenm> not really [14:42:57] <cmihai> No, they don't count. [14:43:01] <sparcdr> blah [14:43:02] <sparcdr> :( [14:43:05] <cmihai> As in [14:43:08] <darrenm> in AMD land sockets imply memory locality [14:43:12] <darrenm> and Solaris understands this [14:43:13] <sparcdr> making me consider dual socket Ultra that's no cool [14:43:16] *** dlynes_laptop has joined #opensolaris [14:43:16] <cmihai> You can have a 32-way system with 8 cores and use the 8 series [14:43:19] <cmihai> AMD Opteron 1218 $229 AMD Opteron 2218 $377 AMD Opteron 8218 $873 [14:43:19] <darrenm> and does appropriate memory placement [14:43:29] <sparcdr> Something with bus architecture and interconnects [14:43:36] <darrenm> hypertransport [14:43:40] <sparcdr> IE: sockets > cores in that sense [14:43:48] <cmihai> Those processors are IDENTICAL in terms of performance. [14:43:49] <sparcdr> memory bottlenecks are not a problem [14:43:53] <cmihai> The second part is the performance rating. [14:43:56] <sparcdr> cmihai, good to hear [14:44:02] <cmihai> The first part is how many sockets it can handle. [14:44:19] <dlg> memory bottlenecks are the big challenge these days [14:44:25] <sparcdr> I think I'll go with Ultra-20, single socket. I'm fine with cores, even though it's less performance, I'm not an enterprise customer [14:45:09] <sparcdr> dlg: any idea why not many manufacurers have adopted 800MHz DDR2? Core 2 is 800MHz FSB yet almost everyone still uses PC2-5300 (667) [14:45:11] <cmihai> No, that's not the point :-). Cores are a "bonus". Cores are connected internally. [14:45:18] <kszwed> have an ultra-20 m2 here and its a screamer. [14:45:18] <sparcdr> ah [14:45:37] <cmihai> The point with 8-way and 2 way and 1-way is the fact they need hypertransport and such connections, hence the added price. [14:45:40] <dlg> sparcdr: nope, i only care about whats out now [14:45:45] <cmihai> You can still have a quad core 1 series CPU [14:45:54] <sparcdr> i have dual core on this notebook, again a notebook, it's not comparable to a full workstation, still have a good deal of experience with them, and they make a huge difference. Especially upgrading from HT systems [14:46:15] <cmihai> They _do_ make a difference. [14:46:26] <sparcdr> big enough for me to spend the dough that is [14:46:36] <cmihai> About 80% of the performance from 2 sockets for example. So that's pretty good. [14:46:40] <sparcdr> great, Ultra-20 it is [14:46:58] <cmihai> Yep. [14:47:07] <cmihai> And the higher the number on the right, the better the CPU performs. [14:47:08] <sparcdr> I was thinking large config, ram price is negligable, only 15% more than OEM, and it's ECC (A must) [14:47:35] <cmihai> So 1222 is better then 8212 in terms of performance. [14:47:42] <cmihai> But it's NOT scalable. [14:47:55] <sparcdr> the high end Ultra-20 is 200MHz faster than the medium (2), and with AMD it matters more. I don't have any AMD64 experience fyi, so I'm, asking these questions because it's a concern [14:48:12] <sparcdr> this is for workstation use, C/C++ and Java development, transcoding, not enterprise [14:48:50] <darrenm> depending on the size of the builds you may end up being more bound by IO than cpu anyway [14:48:58] <cmihai> You always do. [14:49:05] <cmihai> Just make sure you stick ECC memory [14:49:08] <darrenm> a lot of ONNV build machines are IO rather than CPU bound [14:49:09] <sparcdr> how good is the disk io? how does is fare? [14:49:32] <cmihai> Just stick in plenty of RAM for disk cache and go for ZFS ;-) [14:49:34] <sparcdr> cmihai, leaning toward just getting it already as a high end config, it's not too bad at 2600 with extended warrenty [14:49:47] <sparcdr> haha ZFS, well if I had two more disks, sure [14:49:57] <sparcdr> does the Ultra-20 even support more than 2 disks? [14:50:19] <sparcdr> I prefer individual disks and spanning, ZFS obviously. It's just better for IO [14:50:35] <darrenm> I often use ZFS on single disk systems [14:50:42] <cmihai> Yeah, sure, you can stick a couple of disks [14:50:44] <darrenm> many of the benefits of ZFS are still available [14:50:47] <sparcdr> darrenm, hmm, how well does it work? [14:50:50] *** eboutilier has joined #opensolaris [14:50:51] <cmihai> Compression rocks :-) [14:50:53] <darrenm> just fine [14:50:56] <cmihai> snapshots are a blast. [14:50:58] <darrenm> cmihai: +1 [14:50:59] <cmihai> Checksums are ncie to have. [14:50:59] <darrenm> +! [14:51:00] <sparcdr> ie: disk performance and cloning etc [14:51:11] <sparcdr> I like on-the-fly compression myself [14:51:15] <darrenm> like everything it depends on your workload [14:51:25] <darrenm> I use ZFS on my laptop so I can use snapshots [14:51:30] <Tempt> snapshot + zfs send + tape drive = lazy man's backup. [14:51:34] <sparcdr> hundred file at a time commits, up to 2gb in size [14:51:51] <darrenm> snapshots are a complete godsend while I get my head around using mercurial for the onnv repository [14:51:57] <cmihai> + great performance. [14:52:02] <darrenm> as good as hg rollback is it doesn't beat "zfs rollback" ! [14:52:05] <cmihai> A hg clone takes half the time on ZFS :D [14:52:33] <cmihai> darrenm, what I really want to try now is Oracle Secure Files. [14:52:34] <darrenm> cmihai: ideally hg clone on zfs could even be implemented by "zfs clone" - particularly now we have delegated admin for coing [14:52:38] <cmihai> It's like.. their own ZFS ;-) [14:52:58] <darrenm> is that related to Oracle ASM ? [14:53:01] <sparcdr> is zfs encryption working now? [14:53:15] <cmihai> darrenm, yeah, Oracle 11g new feature too, for storing all sort of files. [14:53:21] <cmihai> It does on the fly compression too [14:53:30] <sparcdr> cmihai, if only their licensing didn't rape you so badly [14:53:35] <cmihai> They also have flash back and total recall [14:53:40] <cmihai> and snapshots to a commit level. [14:53:43] <sparcdr> neat [14:53:50] <cmihai> So they can roll back to individual commits (hence, files) [14:54:00] <sparcdr> how stable is opensolaris on an ultra-20? [14:54:10] <cmihai> Too bad they only have the Linux version out. [14:54:13] <sparcdr> I prefer to use SDX [14:54:57] <sparcdr> are there any problems with upgrading SDX with a BFU? [14:54:58] <Tempt> I'll get enthused about Oracle's FS when I can see it on a real OS. [14:54:59] <cmihai> sparcdr, same thing. [14:55:05] <cmihai> Don't bother, use LiveUpgrade. [14:55:16] <cmihai> SXCE + LiveUpgrade. [14:55:23] <sparcdr> never used it [14:55:31] <sparcdr> how would I go about it [14:55:37] <cmihai> SXDE is basically the same thing as SXCE, though they pick a SXCE release every few months and call it SXDE... [14:55:44] <cmihai> (it's a bit more polished I guess) [14:55:49] <sparcdr> It is [14:56:01] <cmihai> sparcdr, http://unixsadm.blogspot.com/2007/08/liveupgrade-sxce.html [14:56:13] <darrenm> only use bfu if you are actively developing in the ON gate of opensolaris otherwise stay way from it [14:56:28] <darrenm> it is NOT an upgrade tool it is a tool for getting binaries from a built ON workspace onto a test machine [14:56:33] <sparcdr> less obtrusive and apparent bugs (Fixable with a BFU every month) and less hassle configuring developer stuff (Although I'm fully capable of manually doing it) [14:56:46] <sparcdr> so liveupgrade eh, ok [14:56:56] <darrenm> but bfu only gets you ON bits and you miss lots of other things. [14:56:59] <Tempt> hey, cool - there's a english/japanese dictionary bot on jabber. [14:57:03] <sparcdr> can you upgrade SDX with SXCE? [14:57:06] <darrenm> yes [14:57:13] <sparcdr> good to hear [14:57:20] <cmihai> sparcdr, you can only go forward with LiveUpgrade (technically anywy) [14:57:25] <sparcdr> I typically upgrade every month [14:57:30] <cmihai> But you can upgrade anything to anything + 2 tops. [14:57:40] <cmihai> So.. you could, theoretically, upgrade 9 to 11 (SXCE).. but... [14:57:44] <sparcdr> +2? you mean up two builds [14:57:47] <cmihai> Yep. [14:57:48] <darrenm> releases [14:57:53] <cmihai> Releases. [14:57:55] <sparcdr> ah you mean Solaris itself [14:57:58] <cmihai> All SXCE is, technically, 11. [14:58:12] <darrenm> just don't let marketing here you say that :-) [14:58:14] <cmihai> The only thing you need to watch out for is the flag days. [14:58:18] <sparcdr> works fine for me, but yeah that was a concern, being able to try latest bits without mangling it too badly [14:58:23] <darrenm> they reserve the right to call it Solaris Foobar :-) [14:58:38] <sparcdr> that's fine, I just call it Solaris Nevada [14:58:42] <cmihai> sparcdr, keep an eye on: http://opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/all/ [14:58:47] <darrenm> live upgrade is best here because if it does go foobar you can just reboot and (on x86) pick the previous build oyu had [14:58:53] <Tempt> Solaris Vista [14:58:56] * Tempt ducks [14:59:06] <cmihai> sparcdr, just make sure you read that post I gave you, you need to prepare for LU. [14:59:11] * sparcdr bashes Tempt and proceeds to dump him off of a balcony [14:59:12] <cmihai> As in, have a /altroot [14:59:19] <sparcdr> enjoy the view! [14:59:26] <cmihai> The "Vista" :-) [14:59:38] <sparcdr> the view says otherwise, it makes me cringe [14:59:55] <darrenm> as I said earlier I often have 3 lu boot environments and when I do that I often bfu one of them and keep the other two pristine [14:59:58] <sparcdr> like living in a trashcan to be honest. view HAH [15:00:17] <sparcdr> darrenm, can ZFS be used to do some neato trick for LU? [15:00:34] <darrenm> not yet [15:00:46] <darrenm> but I'm told that is the plan [15:00:49] <sparcdr> bah. well it'd be neat to be able to snapshot bits of the FS [15:00:57] <darrenm> indeed [15:01:00] <sparcdr> specifically root-centric areas [15:01:01] *** calLNCH has quit IRC [15:01:11] <sparcdr> how is bootable ZFS root coming along? [15:01:13] <darrenm> doing the "copy" is often the most time consuming and tedious part of an lu [15:01:22] <darrenm> that works just fine has for some time now [15:01:42] <darrenm> but the installer doesn't know how to place the bits down to do that or upgrade a system manually installed like that [15:01:44] <sparcdr> darrenm, I'd assume the 7200RPM disks should do decently with a LU. I'm used to 5400RPM (notebooks) [15:01:54] <darrenm> you will notice a big difference [15:02:08] <darrenm> often 3.5" drives have bigger cache than 2.5" notebook ones too [15:02:15] <sparcdr> Typical speeds? On a 5400RPM SATA-2 I get about 35mb/s sustained [15:02:18] <darrenm> at least the laptop ones [15:02:25] <sparcdr> With a 7200RPM 3.5" I see 80mb/s [15:02:29] <darrenm> off the top of my head I don't know [15:02:31] <sparcdr> mostly that is [15:02:39] <sparcdr> run a dd on an ultra-20 for me :P [15:02:41] <darrenm> not really a storage person even though I'm working on ZFS just now [15:02:50] <sparcdr> darrenm, haha, okay [15:03:16] <sparcdr> how easy is it to expand a pool when adding a disk? [15:03:39] <darrenm> depends on what type of raid config you have in the pool [15:03:47] <sparcdr> does ZFS work with large USB external disks? (Just asking, because it'd be useful) [15:04:03] <darrenm> you can't extend raidz or radiz2 but you can extend mirrors and stripes [15:04:03] <sparcdr> ZFS supports which modes? RAID-0/1/5/10? [15:04:23] <darrenm> it always stripes if there is more than one disk (even if they are different sizes) [15:04:30] <darrenm> you can configure it to mirror [15:04:31] <sparcdr> darrenm, what kind of development do you handle for ZFS? [15:04:44] <richlowe> yeesh. [15:04:45] <darrenm> and it does raidz (raid5 ish) and raidz2 (raid6 ish) [15:04:57] <sparcdr> I'd be using a stripe [15:05:05] <darrenm> sparcdr: http://opensolaris.org/os/project/zfs-crypto/ [15:05:06] <timsf> note extending mirrors here, is just adding disks to them: making a mirror bigger means striping across additional mirror sets.. [15:05:36] <sparcdr> darrenm, exactly what I was asking about earlier, progress of crypto. Can an encrypted ZFS volume use compression? [15:05:44] <darrenm> yes [15:05:50] <darrenm> compress then encrypt for writting [15:05:52] <sparcdr> awesome [15:05:56] <darrenm> never the other way around :-) [15:06:01] <sparcdr> obviously [15:06:18] <sparcdr> wouldnt make too much sense to encrypt and have the compressor break [15:06:43] <sparcdr> what kind of cool toys are there laying around in the office? [15:07:00] <timsf> (er, of course you can add bigger disks to a mirror, and gradually remove smaller disks - that /does/ make a mirror bigger, without striping. Obviously you only get the extra space once the smaller disks in the mirror are removed completely) [15:07:31] <sparcdr> timsf, then what would the less costly option be (ie: more space) [15:07:50] <timsf> Er, I've a plush R2D2 and a 12" Hobermann sphere.. I suspect that's not what you're asking [15:08:14] <timsf> sparcdr, adding additional mirror sets to an existing mirror, I guess. [15:08:25] <darrenm> sparcdr: it is more that if you can compress encrypted output your crypto algorithm is cryptographically unsound since ciphertext should be indisingishable from randomness (which again shouldn't compress) [15:08:54] <timsf> eg. zpool create pool mirror disk1 disk2; zpool add pool mirror disk3 disk4 [15:08:59] <sparcdr> oh, that makes sense [15:09:07] <sparcdr> what kind of encryption does zfs use/support? [15:09:22] <Tempt> timsf: I have battery operated nerf weaponary! [15:09:51] <sparcdr> timsf, I was asking darrenm (He works for Sun afterall) ; just curious what kind of big boy toys they have around [15:10:24] <Cyrille> so does timsf. [15:10:25] <sparcdr> what is a Hobermann sphere anyways? [15:10:30] <sparcdr> sounds dangerous [15:10:31] <darrenm> hmn in my office lets see not a lot interesting but then I'm working from home [15:10:48] <sparcdr> darrenm, well at the sun building, anything notable [15:10:51] <timsf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoberman_sphere [15:10:53] <darrenm> in the UK offices lots of nice toys some I can't talk about because they don't yet exist publically [15:11:01] <timsf> Dunno, there's a 15k downstairs, is that interesting ? [15:11:16] <sparcdr> i meant t2000's, sun rays, workstations, storage arrays [15:11:31] <sparcdr> timsf, sure, it's expensive at least and loud [15:11:52] <sparcdr> who here thinks the T2000 is loud? /me raises hand (Sounds like a leaf blower during diagnostics) [15:12:10] *** nachox has joined #opensolaris [15:12:15] <seanmcg> So they're loud, that why there in a lab and not at your desk :) [15:12:23] *** PerterB has quit IRC [15:12:27] <nachox> morning [15:12:28] <Tempt> some of us actually use T2000s to clear leaves from the driveway [15:12:50] <timsf> I strap two of them to my recumbent, and hum the theme from Gentle Ben. [15:12:54] <sparcdr> seanmcg, I was just making conversation. and I know someone who uses it at home [15:13:05] <sparcdr> the performance makes up for lost sleep [15:13:06] <sparcdr> :P [15:13:19] <seanmcg> sparcdr: you haven't heard the Sun Blade 8000 chassis [15:13:24] <sparcdr> noyb, I havent [15:13:38] <sparcdr> kinda scared, given the heat and noise of an E25K [15:13:51] *** tsoome1 has joined #opensolaris [15:13:57] <seanmcg> ppl used to come up to us wondering if there was something wrong - they could heard the chassis from outside the lab.. [15:14:08] <sparcdr> eh, mainframe it is! [15:14:30] <sparcdr> neat, although I'd scare away my sanity if I had anything louder than a T2000 within 200ft of here [15:15:14] <sparcdr> let alone right next to you, like working on one to get it working and ship it off to the datacenter, it's time for an ear muffler and xanex [15:15:21] *** jwit has quit IRC [15:15:21] *** phips has quit IRC [15:16:04] *** n0rus has joined #opensolaris [15:16:08] *** karrotx has quit IRC [15:16:11] <n0rus> Does /usr/bin/sh use .profile? [15:16:12] <sparcdr> how large is the codebase for ZFS? just wondering how big a project it is. (I'm assuming pretty big since it's a volume manager and filesystem rolled into one) [15:16:27] <sparcdr> n0rus, try .login maybe? [15:16:34] <delewis> sparcdr: actually, less code than UFS, IIRC. [15:16:35] <n0rus> thanks [15:16:41] <delewis> and that's UFS without SVM. [15:16:44] <sparcdr> delewis, hmm... wow [15:16:55] <sparcdr> is UFS still using design from BSD? [15:17:03] <delewis> nope, it's been extended. [15:17:15] <delewis> to support snapshots, ACL, ec. [15:17:15] <sparcdr> I meant is there legacy code or any sharing going on [15:17:16] <delewis> etc* [15:17:18] <delewis> and logging [15:17:33] <delewis> sparcdr: no, as nobody uses the original UFS anymore. [15:18:06] <sparcdr> not the original, UFS2 was re-engineered of course, with softupdates etc [15:18:30] <sparcdr> this is a dumb question, but what extended option is responsible for a large performance difference on Solaris UFS? (logging?) [15:18:33] *** tsoome1 has quit IRC [15:18:39] <delewis> the UFS the free BSD variants use had softupdates before UFS2. [15:18:53] <sparcdr> delewis, hmm didn't know that [15:18:56] *** pizdec_ has joined #opensolaris [15:19:08] *** tsoome1 has joined #opensolaris [15:19:11] <delewis> softupdates is essentially 'logging' in the Solaris UFS. [15:19:12] <sparcdr> everyone's waking up, the crypt has came alive [15:19:27] <seanmcg> sparcdr: that and 15 to 20 years of tweaking UFS grows the code base :) [15:19:32] <sparcdr> ah, okay. so that's what makes a big performance hit when off. I just remember reading something. [15:19:40] *** n0rus has quit IRC [15:19:49] *** tsoome has quit IRC [15:19:50] <sparcdr> not that good with Solaris myself [15:20:36] <axisys> sparcdr: ZFS code about 80 thousand lines [15:20:40] <sparcdr> any good tweaks to apply which would increase performance on a stock install of S10 [15:20:41] <sparcdr> ? [15:20:46] <sparcdr> axisys, thanks [15:21:10] <timsf> which is *tiny*, compared to the combined size of UFS and, say, SVM. [15:21:35] <sparcdr> timsf, Sun's got good programmers [15:21:36] <JWheeler> set atime-off [15:21:38] <timsf> Jeff & Bill mentioned that during their interview on the Scoble show. (worth watching, if you can stand the interviewer) [15:21:45] <sparcdr> UFS is old and huge [15:21:47] <axisys> sparcdr: written by a statiscian and electrical engr from scratch [15:21:52] <JWheeler> that helps with ANY fs [15:21:58] <richlowe> timsf: I don't think it's so much the interviewer, as the keeping dragging them back to basics for whatever reason. [15:21:59] <timsf> http://www.podtech.net/scobleshow/technology/1619/talking-storage-systems-with-suns-zfs-team [15:22:03] <richlowe> timsf: but yeah, it got annoying. [15:22:04] <sparcdr> async = atime? [15:22:14] <timsf> What *is* virtual memory anyway ? :-) [15:22:21] <richlowe> timsf: gah. [15:22:21] <sparcdr> timsf, it's magic [15:22:22] <JWheeler> no no, it's the last accessed time [15:22:32] <sparcdr> JWheeler, ah yes, okay [15:22:42] *** NikolaVeber has joined #opensolaris [15:22:51] <JWheeler> the awesome posix standards that says, everytime you want to read a file, guess what, I'm going to write to it too [15:22:56] <JWheeler> performance be damned! [15:23:03] <sparcdr> what kind of setups you guys have for your Solaris boxes? [15:23:19] <JWheeler> and with journalling file systems, you're likely to write twice in fact [15:23:27] <sparcdr> JWheeler, let's make syscalls and waste cpu cycles while hogging disk io, fun [15:23:29] *** jwk404 has quit IRC [15:23:43] <JWheeler> sparcdr, I have x86 hosts here (I'm the Linux => solaris 11 generation) [15:23:49] <delewis> JWheeler: in journalling you must write the data twice, otherwise it's just logging/softupdates. [15:24:03] <sparcdr> im the freebsd/hatelinux -> solaris/freebsd generation [15:24:03] <sparcdr> :P [15:24:11] <JWheeler> 2core 4GB ram in my desktop, and 2core 1GB ram for my n/zfs server [15:24:20] <delewis> logging/softupdates is just preserving the validity of the metadata, whereas journalling attempts to preserve the validity of the metadata and data. [15:24:21] <sparcdr> JWheeler, nice [15:24:28] <sparcdr> core 2, 2gb ram in here [15:24:56] <sparcdr> delewis, i've had no issues with freebsd ufs reliability, so it's not really a big deal [15:24:57] <JWheeler> delewis, sure (ok I didn't know it in that depth), I was just pointing out that it's _REALLY_ wrong these days :) [15:25:08] <sparcdr> ZFS however, really really makes me cream my pants [15:25:27] * JWheeler backs away, slowly, to hide behind delewis [15:25:35] * sparcdr guards JWheeler [15:25:45] * sparcdr sicks his sparc minions on delewis [15:25:50] <delewis> JWheeler: it's really wrong, but the authors of these journalling filesystems don't understand the problems at hand, like checksumming the journal. [15:25:54] <delewis> *cough* ext3 *cough* [15:26:14] <sparcdr> delewis, ext3 is slower than a mammoth running a marathon [15:26:21] <JWheeler> ROFL [15:26:49] <JWheeler> I can't say I've been paying much attenion (I was a reiserfs/xfs man), but has ext4 improved the status quo any? [15:27:11] <sparcdr> heaven forbid you use UFS2 or XFS, ext3 gets flushed down the preverbal toilet of bad engineering disasters [15:27:14] *** tsoome1 has quit IRC [15:27:32] <sparcdr> JWheeler, probably took cues from XFS [15:27:46] <delewis> sparcdr: I'd use ext3 before XFS. [15:27:59] <delewis> ext3 at least treats link(2) and unlink(2) as synchronous operations. [15:28:04] <delewis> (XFS does not) [15:28:13] <sparcdr> I have an SGI, I'm saying in general. The Linux port is not complete, and it's missing failover [15:28:16] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris [15:28:24] <delewis> in fact, ext3 and ext2 are the only Linux filesystems that treat link(2) and unlink(2) as synchronous operations. [15:28:29] <sparcdr> I'd rather use Reiser3 than ext3 [15:28:45] <sparcdr> but this is not with reliability in consideration [15:28:45] <Tempt> Plenty of room in /dev/null for everybody. [15:28:48] <JWheeler> I forget, is it XFS or JFS that just does writeback for everything. IE, you NEED a UPS on it, but the performance is great [15:28:49] <delewis> sparcdr: then you obviously value performance over the integrity of your data. [15:28:54] <sparcdr> If it's a deployed system I'd use ext3 probably [15:28:57] <sparcdr> yes, I do delewis [15:29:07] <sparcdr> JWheeler, JFS [15:29:13] *** PerterB has joined #opensolaris [15:29:14] <quasi> delewis: the first jfs for linux was "fun" - corrupted files detected, solving problem, you now have no corrupt files (or rather, no files at all) [15:29:26] <sparcdr> pretty sure, it fairs well against all current contenders, but I don't know anything of the reliability [15:29:48] *** tinman2k has joined #opensolaris [15:29:53] <JWheeler> ah, go JFS ;) [15:30:02] <sparcdr> JFS and XFS being ports and iterative work in progress kinda makes me more paranoid [15:30:11] <sparcdr> I mean on Linux [15:30:13] <quasi> JWheeler: not much fun [15:30:28] <delewis> the Linux JFS port is not even the based on the JFS implementation from AIX. :-) [15:30:31] <delewis> and it certainly isn't JFS2. [15:30:38] <sparcdr> that's terrible [15:30:39] <sparcdr> :/ [15:30:48] <JWheeler> well I don't know... personally I think they're onto something there. Really, there is no excuse for you just loosing power these days [15:30:50] <delewis> the Linux JFS port used the OS/2 JFS implementation. [15:30:51] <Tempt> So many filesystem choices [15:30:54] <sparcdr> most reliable FS I've used is UFS2 (But I have years of experience with FreeBSD and Linux) [15:30:58] <Tempt> but what HBA support? [15:31:08] <sparcdr> OS/2 LAWL [15:31:14] <sparcdr> LAWL LAWL LAWL. ROFL [15:31:24] <sparcdr> older than dirt on a tree branch [15:31:34] <Tempt> I'd put a reasonable bet on OS/2 staying up and running longer than loonix [15:31:49] <JWheeler> in your data centre, you're either writing to battery backed raid cards, or battery backed SAN/NAS, both of which should be on generator AND UPS... so, well... is it really that bad. If you know the risks up front, it's a calculated rist imho [15:31:54] <sparcdr> Tempt, mutatually agree there, despite the age [15:32:40] <JWheeler> *risk [15:33:07] <sparcdr> main issue with XFS on Linux was losing data. This was due to the architecture on a MIPS box being more reiliant and more sane with syncing the data on power failure, ie the PSU was engineered to come down in a predicable way, and was more robust than you find in an x86 box [15:33:14] *** GoodKarma has joined #OpenSolaris [15:33:26] *** RaD|Tz has joined #opensolaris [15:33:34] <sparcdr> if you need speed have backups and have UPS/generators, it's okay I guess, but be sure to have a SAN around [15:34:24] <sparcdr> so what's the progress of ON 73? any problems upgrading to it? [15:35:30] *** PerterB has quit IRC [15:35:45] *** xOmega has quit IRC [15:36:59] <sparcdr> any way to disable the lastlog output on login? [15:37:54] <darrenm> sparcdr: using what login program ? [15:38:42] <sparcdr> not sure [15:38:49] <darrenm> it it is ssh then see PrintLastLog in sshd_config [15:38:54] <sparcdr> I know [15:38:55] *** PerterB has joined #opensolaris [15:39:03] <sparcdr> I meant Solaris login prompt (local) [15:39:04] <darrenm> dtlogin doesn't display the last login info [15:39:08] <darrenm> ah [15:39:17] <darrenm> on the console or a serial line ? [15:39:24] <sparcdr> it's built-in (PAM) I don't think you can [15:39:27] <sparcdr> console [15:40:07] <darrenm> it isn't in a PAM module it is inside login.c [15:40:13] <darrenm> touch ~/.hushlogin [15:40:17] <darrenm> that will make it go away [15:40:23] <darrenm> but you do you care ? [15:40:31] <sparcdr> it's annoying? [15:40:44] <sparcdr> I know about hushlogin, obviously it's part of the login program itself (Just like FreeBSD) [15:41:22] *** tinman21 has joined #opensolaris [15:43:03] <darrenm> it should be displayed from pam_unix_session but due to "history" it isn't [15:43:16] *** Gropi has quit IRC [15:43:20] <sparcdr> part of the pam module eh [15:43:32] *** BadKarma has quit IRC [15:43:32] *** GoodKarma is now known as BadKarma [15:45:18] <sparcdr> hi BadKarma [15:49:17] *** darrenm has left #opensolaris [15:49:30] *** xOmega has joined #opensolaris [15:49:31] *** SunTzuTech has joined #opensolaris [15:50:16] *** FelipeBare has quit IRC [15:51:40] *** kszwed has quit IRC [15:52:04] *** laca has joined #opensolaris [15:54:17] *** xOmega has quit IRC [15:59:37] *** phips|mb has joined #opensolaris [16:02:41] *** phips|mb has quit IRC [16:02:43] <sparcdr> ;_; [16:03:04] <sparcdr> REALLY need to just get this page done for my site [16:03:12] <sparcdr> okie, coffee + dumb_web_stuff [16:03:17] <sparcdr> ;) [16:06:04] *** tinman2k has quit IRC [16:07:32] *** glagasse has joined #opensolaris [16:13:25] <edp> anyone know off hand the mapping between disk devices and the physical disk number in a x4500? [16:13:45] <richlowe> I thought thumper shipped with something on the platform cd that told you. [16:13:51] <richlowe> I recall someone in here trying to find a copy, anyway. [16:13:53] <richlowe> (SUNWhd?) [16:14:07] <edp> hd segfaults [16:14:18] <richlowe> oh. [16:14:25] <edp> I think i've got a bad disk in a ZFS pool that's causing it to behave very badly [16:14:41] <edp> i.e. panic [16:15:31] *** cmihai has quit IRC [16:15:54] <timsf> Where does it panic, on boot ? [16:16:15] <edp> it seemed to have rebooted then just doing a 'zfs iostat' caused it to reboot again [16:16:53] <timsf> So it gets past the "zfs volinit" statement, that's something at least. Does zpool status -v cause a panic ? (or zdb <pool> ?) [16:17:23] <edp> zpool status output looks fine [16:17:44] <timsf> What's the panic ? [16:19:00] *** Fullmoon_ has joined #opensolaris [16:20:29] <timsf> (and is the pool redundant - can you just "zpool detach" the disk?) [16:20:29] <edp> yes, pool is raidz2 [16:20:29] <edp> how do you determine what made it panic? [16:20:29] <edp> (sorry, that's probably a dumb question) [16:20:30] *** Doc has quit IRC [16:20:30] <timsf> Not at all, no such thing as a dumb question. [16:20:30] <timsf> Assuming dumpadm is configured (which is should be) [16:20:33] <edp> looks to be [16:20:42] <timsf> there'll be a crashdump in /var/crash/<hostname>/ [16:21:34] *** alanc_away is now known as alanc [16:21:52] <timsf> doing an "echo ::msgbuf | mdb 0" [16:22:10] *** snuff-away has joined #opensolaris [16:22:13] <timsf> (assuming the core is vmcore.0) [16:22:42] <timsf> will print the message buffer from the machine at the time of the panic, [16:22:50] <timsf> which usually includes the panic string, and a stack trace. [16:23:55] <edp> i've got an empty /var so i'm assuming /var isn't mounted [16:25:56] <timsf> Does svcs -x show lots of services which haven't started yet? [16:27:12] <edp> boot archive, snmpdx, gss, smserver [16:28:56] <edp> plus all of their deps [16:29:26] <timsf> Right, I'm guessing filesystem/local is offline too - that's usually a culprit for holding everythign else up. [16:30:02] <edp> yeah [16:30:05] *** jwit has joined #opensolaris [16:30:09] <timsf> Check in /var/svc/logs/<log name> to work out what's going on. Could be something in the broken zpool had an entry in /etc/vfstab. Commenting that entry out can help the [16:30:16] <timsf> system get back on it's feet. [16:30:25] <timsf> (if you're using legacy zfs mounts...) [16:31:32] <richlowe> timsf: filesystem/local will fail if zfs mount -a fails, too. [16:31:34] <richlowe> or it would. [16:31:37] <edp> would it help to just do a 'zpool export' then reboot? [16:31:42] <richlowe> so if the pool is now more unhappy than before, that'd do it. [16:32:08] *** phips has joined #opensolaris [16:32:37] *** yongsun has joined #opensolaris [16:32:44] *** Sup3rkiddo has joined #opensolaris [16:34:03] *** yongsun has quit IRC [16:34:14] *** nachox has quit IRC [16:35:25] *** dlynes_laptop has quit IRC [16:39:38] <edp> well the pool seems to be working now, as does zpool iostat/// [16:40:10] <edp> to fix the boot-archive, the best way is just svcadm clear system/boot-archive, right? (despite the "use at your own risk") warning? [16:40:41] <holcomb> yes, then bootadm update-archive when things come back [16:40:44] <timsf> That should do it. [16:40:52] <edp> ok, thanks [16:41:00] <timsf> You should probably a) find out what the panic is (and contact support) [16:41:02] <timsf> and [16:41:14] <timsf> b) kick of a "zpool scrub" on the pool that triggered the error, [16:41:18] <timsf> s/of/off/ [16:41:28] <timsf> just to see if your data's safe. [16:43:11] <edp> indeed [16:44:04] <richlowe> do a and b in that order, and not in parallel. [16:44:10] <richlowe> since there's always the chance the scrub will panic... [16:44:21] <edp> i'm getting device reset, link lost, link established, and a read error at zfs volinit [16:44:41] *** Cyrille has quit IRC [16:45:18] <edp> would the best course of action be a zpool offline for the troubled disk? [16:45:51] <timsf> I'd be inclined to take it out of the pool altogether, zpool detach <pool> disk [16:50:20] <sparcdr> so yeah they wont finance to individuals, just gonna take out of my bank and pay myself back [16:50:35] <sparcdr> as I was asking before about, financing. kinda gay how they treat individuals [16:51:17] <sparcdr> anyways, brb [16:51:35] <edp> great... 6580497 zfs volinit shouldn't slowly iterate over all snapshots [16:52:06] <edp> i suppose having quite a large number of snapshots is what's holding up zfs volinit [16:52:07] <axisys> dtrace -n ' syscall:::entry /execname == "telnet"/ {@[execname,uid] = count();}' shows one uid with 64 telnet calls.. [16:52:10] <axisys> but ps -ef | grep telnet for same uid shows only two telnet process running [16:52:12] <axisys> is dtrace counting same telnet command multiple times? [16:52:56] <richlowe> that's counting the number of times telnet does a syscall, aggregated on execname and uid. [16:53:08] <richlowe> so it's not the number of running telnets, it's the number of syscalls a running telnet has executed. [16:54:37] <seanmcg> axisys: answered this on #dtrace with same answer as richlowe's :) [16:56:07] *** Cyrille has joined #opensolaris [16:59:35] <axisys> seanmcg: ;-) [17:00:47] <axisys> richlowe, seanmcg now shows 24 [17:00:52] <axisys> i was expecting 2 [17:01:03] <axisys> dtrace -n ' syscall:::entry /execname == "telnet"/ {@[execname,uid,pid] = count();}' [17:01:12] <axisys> telnet 340 28676 24 [17:01:32] <axisys> ps -ef | grep 28676 shows just one [17:01:42] <seanmcg> so, you've found that telnet calls 24 syscalls... [17:01:59] <axisys> i c .. i am using wrong provider? [17:02:01] <seanmcg> what are you trying to get out of this ? [17:02:09] <axisys> how many telnet request going out? [17:02:35] <seanmcg> ahh, then wrong probe, you want the ::exec_common:exec-success probe. [17:02:54] <axisys> we have a issue .. some user between 1 and 5am consistently telneting out thousands of times according to firewall team coming from this box [17:03:48] <richlowe> Yeah, probe on exec-sucess, aggregate on uid and actual time. [17:04:11] <richlowe> or rule your users with an iron fist until they're too scared of you to try such things. [17:04:42] <axisys> richlowe: if i know which user.. dont want to be the police :-( [17:05:22] <sparcdr> cool someone is handling my quote :) anytime now I'll get a confirmation [17:05:31] <PerterB> apply the rubber hose to a few of them, they'll soon grass up the culprit [17:05:36] <sparcdr> axisys, I'm the gestapo, bow down so I can tax you and make you use Linux [17:05:45] <sparcdr> >:o [17:06:38] <sparcdr> <- drcraps :D [17:07:20] <sparcdr> stupid pile of junk, video wont come up :( [17:07:34] <tinman21> The dtrace toolkit has some scripts for net monitoring [17:12:11] <edp> success! thanks for the help guys [17:12:56] <timsf> no worries [17:18:01] *** jwk404 has joined #opensolaris [17:21:23] <sparcdr> hi2u! [17:22:12] *** Pietro_S has joined #opensolaris [17:23:01] *** vmlemon has joined #opensolaris [17:26:03] <axisys> richlowe: dtrace -n 'proc::exec_common:exec-success /execname == "telnet"/ {@[uid] = count();}' [17:26:15] <axisys> richlowe: can I stick timestamp in here? [17:26:26] *** LeftWing has quit IRC [17:26:37] <axisys> like @[uid,timestamp] ? [17:26:57] <axisys> richlowe: never mind [17:27:04] <axisys> richlowe: that was a stupid question [17:29:10] *** pizdec__ has joined #opensolaris [17:31:10] *** LeftWing has joined #OpenSolaris [17:32:39] <sparcdr> :o [17:32:46] <sparcdr> anyone gonna say hi to me ;_; [17:40:44] *** orange80[w] has joined #opensolaris [17:42:25] *** sfire||mouse has joined #opensolaris [17:42:30] *** kaiwai has joined #opensolaris [17:43:17] <sparcdr> :O [17:44:35] <orange80[w]> :) [17:44:37] <kaiwai> hmm, I guess with the xen integration, the size of onnv must have zoomed up a bit [17:44:38] *** orange80[w] has left #opensolaris [17:45:40] <sparcdr> kaiwai, one would assume [17:45:43] *** pizdec__ has quit IRC [17:45:48] *** pizdec_ has quit IRC [17:45:50] <sparcdr> although zfs is quite compact [17:46:07] <kaiwai> true; can't wait till zfs root install is ready [17:46:09] *** slowhog has joined #opensolaris [17:46:27] <asyd> hmm, the jeff bonwick's post on space maps is very interesting [17:47:50] <flyingparchment> does the solaris 10 apache2 include mod_proxy? [17:48:03] <sparcdr> probably not flyingparchment [17:53:48] *** Cyrille has quit IRC [17:53:49] *** jcea has quit IRC [17:56:36] *** perlmonk has quit IRC [17:57:11] *** bda has quit IRC [17:58:35] *** bda has joined #opensolaris [17:58:43] *** WickedWicky has joined #opensolaris [18:02:54] *** alanc is now known as alanc_away [18:07:54] *** reflect_ has joined #opensolaris [18:08:25] <sparcdr> hmm [18:09:19] <flyingparchment> hmm, turns out it does [18:09:28] <flyingparchment> took a while to set up as usual... </3 tomcat [18:09:55] <sparcdr> haha :( [18:10:10] *** ShadowHntr has joined #opensolaris [18:10:11] *** andy_ has joined #opensolaris [18:10:21] <sparcdr> I like using Glassfish myself, although Eclipse users are stuck with WebSphere and Tomcat. [18:10:42] *** charlesnw has joined #opensolaris [18:10:43] <flyingparchment> i should look at something better, i only use tomcat because i know it (and all the webapps include tomcat instructions) [18:10:44] <sparcdr> just has more pep :) [18:10:52] <sparcdr> yeah h/o [18:11:09] *** andy__ has quit IRC [18:11:38] <sparcdr> okay sun was calling me to confirm my e-mail :P [18:11:47] <flyingparchment> i have to say, there are lots of awesome java webapps available (just deployed JIRA), and i love writing code for that platform, but when it comes to actually deploying those apps in production, it's such a headache [18:11:56] <sparcdr> I said yeah my e-mail is sparcdr at sparcdr dot com. You mean sparkdr? NO [18:12:20] <sparcdr> comeon Sun, your microprocessor, you know the shiny gold pinny thing with magical superpowers and such [18:12:26] <sparcdr> :D [18:12:34] <sparcdr> cool got it :) [18:12:37] <flyingparchment> today i had two people ask me how to spell 'river' [18:12:59] <sparcdr> sheesh, what in the hell D: [18:13:01] <sparcdr> :( [18:13:13] <sparcdr> rivar eh [18:14:50] <sparcdr> I have a question about sales quotes if any Sun employee can tell me what I do after I receive one via e-mail [18:15:17] <WickedWicky> you pay them [18:15:26] <sparcdr> says something about faxing [18:15:26] <WickedWicky> (and nope, I dont work at sun :P) [18:15:31] <sparcdr> how do I go about that? [18:15:39] <sparcdr> they said to use a credit card, which I will [18:15:42] <sparcdr> but they sent me a PO [18:16:46] <kaiwai> WickedWicky: interesting if you did though :) [18:17:20] *** bondolo has quit IRC [18:17:34] <WickedWicky> *open letter to sun* I would like too though [18:17:43] <WickedWicky> anyway, I am almost home [18:17:53] <WickedWicky> take care all, I have to unbrick my box at home, then I'll come online [18:17:56] <kaiwai> WickedWicky: where abouts are you now? [18:18:02] <WickedWicky> Amsterdam [18:18:09] <kaiwai> ah [18:18:14] <kaiwai> have fun :) [18:18:17] <coffman> ## [18:18:27] <WickedWicky> but I packed my stuff within 2 days to move to London/UK [18:18:28] <sparcdr> any ideas? [18:18:31] <coffman> http://onetruth.blogsome.com/ [18:18:37] <WickedWicky> and 1 day to move to brazil [18:18:37] <WickedWicky> so [18:18:39] <sparcdr> and stupid question but on a Sun number how would I dial an extension? [18:18:42] <WickedWicky> I am not stuck to this location ;-) [18:19:03] <WickedWicky> see ya all later! [18:19:11] <sparcdr> cya WickedWicky [18:20:58] *** pjd- has quit IRC [18:24:11] <sparcdr> guys? how would I dial an extension for a Sun number? prefix #ext and then the number? [18:25:42] *** phips has quit IRC [18:25:42] *** jwit has quit IRC [18:26:39] *** jwit has joined #opensolaris [18:26:39] *** phips has joined #opensolaris [18:26:59] <timsf> No idea sparcdr, depends where you are. [18:27:03] *** crash__ has quit IRC [18:27:11] *** bondolo has joined #opensolaris [18:27:12] <timsf> Best bet is to call the main number, and ask them to connect you to extension <foo> [18:28:44] <sparcdr> gotcha [18:28:47] <sparcdr> exactly what im doing [18:30:30] *** tsoome has quit IRC [18:31:23] <sparcdr> so how are you all doing today? [18:32:38] <seanmcg> going to pub now - so well enough :) [18:33:12] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris [18:33:19] *** victori has quit IRC [18:33:32] <sparcdr> awesome no sales tax thank god for their hardware coming out of colorado [18:34:21] *** andy_ has quit IRC [18:34:56] *** andy_ has joined #opensolaris [18:35:31] *** Erwann has quit IRC [18:35:53] *** victori has joined #opensolaris [18:36:21] *** hile_ has quit IRC [18:39:06] *** Fullmoon has quit IRC [18:39:11] *** stevel has joined #opensolaris [18:39:12] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stevel [18:39:29] *** WickedWicky has quit IRC [18:40:42] <kaiwai> not too bad [18:40:43] <sparcdr> hey stevel [18:41:20] <sparcdr> best of luck for your journey [18:43:11] <stevel> sparcdr: thanks! [18:43:16] <kaiwai> journey where? [18:43:25] <stevel> http://whacked.net/2007/09/17/we-only-part-to-meet-again/ [18:43:27] <kaiwai> to getting a Windows BrandZ? :P [18:43:50] <timsf> no need, we've xVM now :-) [18:43:50] <sparcdr> yep [18:44:04] *** hile_ has joined #Opensolaris [18:44:05] <kaiwai> how stable is the startup? [18:44:11] <sparcdr> Microsoft is even supporting it both ways (Usually they're one-way, one Windows or the highway attitude) [18:44:23] <kaiwai> not to go Peoplesoft on you, but when I hear 'startup' I think "oh shit, unstable" [18:44:28] <sparcdr> stevel, be sure to stick around IRC :) [18:44:48] <stevel> eh. probably 50/50. [18:44:56] <stevel> even if its unstable, i'm happy to take the risk and try it [18:45:03] <kaiwai> xVM should be fun - B75 will be nice; GNOME 2.20 + Xen + cool :) [18:45:14] <timsf> when I hear startup, I think Google or Havok, so it's not all bad [18:45:28] <timsf> Yeah, running the zfs test suite on a domU at the moment, so far so good. [18:45:31] <sparcdr> haha Havok and Google are like own [18:45:36] <kaiwai> stevel: he he he have fun; I guess I'm overly conservative [18:45:50] <sparcdr> glad to hear you'll still be around stevel [18:46:20] <stevel> thanks [18:46:41] <sparcdr> you've been doing some neat work for us [18:46:41] <sparcdr> :) [18:47:10] <kaiwai> hmm, now, KDE 4 [18:47:13] <sparcdr> got a strange error on SDX (B64a), set_cmd<2,0> timeout 0,0,0,2eab [18:47:25] <sparcdr> kaiwai, two devs already made it possible to build with SS [18:47:40] <sparcdr> something with const assumptions [18:48:00] <kaiwai> sparcdr: yeah, but alot of stuff is riddled with dependencies that Solaris dev's refuse to bundle with the distribution [18:48:26] <sparcdr> kaiwai, they arent aiming to bundle, Sun wouldn't have it, but it'll be available [18:48:44] <kaiwai> its the dependencies, not KDE itself [18:48:49] <sparcdr> better than GCC. Not that GCC does a bad job, but it's something like 33% slower on all counts [18:49:12] <kaiwai> sparcdr: the bundled gcc is getting long in the tooth though, 3.4.3 [18:49:15] <sparcdr> means something if you're on a lower clocked box, or wanted to invest in C3's [18:49:34] <sparcdr> kaiwai, hence blastwave, pkgsrc, and portage, they have it [18:49:43] <sparcdr> although not ideal for non-developers [18:49:48] *** KermitTheFragger has quit IRC [18:50:37] *** hile_ has quit IRC [18:50:50] <kaiwai> sparcdr: the new VIA cpus should be interesting, the 64bit ones [18:50:57] *** hile_ has joined #opensolaris [18:50:57] <sparcdr> aye [18:51:05] <sparcdr> which is why I noted the performance hit of gcc [18:51:35] <sparcdr> also matters for high end sparc workstations. some people like a gui, even on them, and many find gnome/jds too dumbed down [18:51:37] <kaiwai> unfortunately what is the alternative to gcc? [18:51:56] <hile_> use SUNWspro [18:51:59] <hile_> on Solaris [18:52:04] <hile_> use xlC on AIX [18:52:08] <sparcdr> TenDRA, Sun Studio, Borland, MIPSpro [18:52:32] <sparcdr> depends on which system, if you mean on Solaris, a large portion of csw packages use SS [18:52:34] <kaiwai> everything breaks with sunwspro [18:52:39] <sparcdr> it's the gnu toolchain that's the problem [18:52:48] <hile_> not if it's good code, kaiwai [18:53:01] <hile_> if your code is broken with a standards-compliant compiler, fix it [18:53:03] <sparcdr> no they don't, blastwave is more up to date than sunfreeware generally, and most of it minus kde is sunstudio [18:53:07] <delewis> kaiwai: everything will break on Sun Studio that uses gcc extensions, th Sun Studio does not support. [18:53:08] <kaiwai> hile_: in the ideal world, we wouldn't have problems, but this isn't the ideal world [18:53:19] <delewis> and that would be a problem with any compiler. [18:53:29] <delewis> kaiwai: no, that's not the problem. [18:53:29] <sparcdr> kaiwai, google TenDRA (FreeBSD) aims to get rid of GPL dependence crapola [18:53:31] <sparcdr> :/ [18:53:59] <sparcdr> it's slowly happening, and tbh gcc is less standards adherent than 6 year old MIPSpro compilers for IRIX [18:54:12] *** FBdev has quit IRC [18:54:28] <sparcdr> the problem is gnu toolchain (gawk, gsed, etc) not so much the compiler [18:54:31] <sparcdr> I have little issues with Sun Studio [18:55:50] <sparcdr> it's general assumptions of architecture and target os that's the problem, in this case GNUOS aka anything that runs GNU perpetuates the dependence on it, as many find it ubiquitous [18:56:31] <BadKarma> hi sparcdr .... 6rhs later ;) [18:56:41] <sparcdr> no problem BadKarma :) [18:57:10] <sparcdr> still waiting on Shannon from Sun sales to get back to me, I want my Ultra-20 now (Large config :P) [18:57:39] <BadKarma> :) [18:57:44] <BadKarma> sounds like fun [18:57:56] <BadKarma> how long have you been waiting now? [18:58:01] <sparcdr> I can compile about 1/2 of Apache with MIPSpro on my SGI, but it bricks when it starts using gnu extensions to sed and awk [18:58:26] <delewis> like using EREs in BRE mode? :-) [18:58:59] <sparcdr> Well Marissa was the first rep to talk to me, and I got a sales quote but the address was one number off, so I left a voicemail and e-mail, waiting on a new PDF. 2 hours or so [18:59:04] <kaiwai> Ultra 20 = sparc I assume? [18:59:10] <sparcdr> no kaiwai [18:59:11] <flyingparchment> no, U20 is an Opteron [18:59:14] <kaiwai> ah [18:59:15] <sparcdr> Ultra-20 M2 [18:59:28] <flyingparchment> why did they call x86 systems Ultra? who knows [18:59:36] <sparcdr> because it's uber [18:59:36] <sparcdr> >_> [18:59:41] *** RaD|Tz has quit IRC [18:59:42] <kaiwai> I guess its better than super-duper [18:59:45] <sparcdr> aka 1218 Opteron with 2GB ram, Quadro 1500 series [18:59:50] *** crash__ has joined #opensolaris [18:59:59] <delewis> 2GB is a large config? [19:00:02] <sparcdr> it's surely constructed well, as anyone I've asked said [19:00:03] <flyingparchment> i'm thinking of buying a U20 now when i have a bit of cash [19:00:06] <sparcdr> yes delewis [19:00:09] <flyingparchment> i hear they're nice systems and well priced [19:00:16] <delewis> that sounds like a medium Ultra 20 config. [19:00:18] <flyingparchment> (tempt reckons they're cheaper than good whitebox) [19:00:32] <sparcdr> for the medium-end (This is the case) it's price competive, cheaper than whitebox with superior construction and ECC ram [19:00:35] <delewis> flyingparchment: I've been pleased with the ones I've workd with. [19:00:38] <kaiwai> I'm waiting till the Ultra 3 start appearing on ebay, then I'll pick one up :) [19:00:52] <delewis> kaiwai: they're already there. [19:00:56] <sparcdr> Ultra 3? you mean the discontinued "portable" (Oxymoron) [19:01:03] <kaiwai> yeap [19:01:06] <sparcdr> nutburner / brick++ [19:01:07] <flyingparchment> wasn't the U3 just a rebranded tadpole? [19:01:12] <sparcdr> no [19:01:13] <delewis> flyingparchment: partly. [19:01:18] <delewis> the low-end model was Tadpole [19:01:20] *** TheBonsai has joined #opensolaris [19:01:21] <sparcdr> they are a reseller using SPARC, not Sun supported [19:01:22] <delewis> high-end was Naturetech. [19:01:27] <sparcdr> and they are more expensive [19:01:30] <delewis> sparcdr: bullsit. [19:01:36] <sparcdr> than Sun's now discontinued Ultra-3 [19:01:39] <delewis> bullshit, rather. [19:01:39] <g4lt-sb100> that is so ironic on so many levels [19:01:46] <TheBonsai> hi. does this chan also support specific distributions (martux in this case)? [19:01:47] <delewis> the low-end Ultra 3 was a Tadpole SPARCLE. [19:01:49] <sparcdr> when the prices were there in retail is cost 3 grand minimal for low end Ultra-3 [19:01:59] <sparcdr> delewis, yeah it was, essentially [19:02:04] <sparcdr> just Sun branded :P [19:02:07] <delewis> essentially? it was! [19:02:08] <g4lt-sb100> if it had a sun brand name on it, it was supported, QED [19:02:16] <sparcdr> Minus being Sun sold I mean [19:02:24] <kaiwai> hmm, I'll check out tadpole then [19:02:46] <sparcdr> It was discontinued because they dont do notebooks, not for long it's gone. Tadpole's been doing it for years [19:03:01] <kaiwai> none available - hopefully the end of the year they'll start appearing [19:03:02] <g4lt-sb100> kaiwai, talk to gdamore, he used to work for them, consluts for them now IIRC [19:03:09] *** peteh has quit IRC [19:03:16] <delewis> there's a few Tadpoles on eBay currently. [19:03:27] <delewis> same model that I own, a SPARCbook 650. [19:03:28] <g4lt-sb100> yeah, a 3gx [19:03:30] <delewis> er, 6500* [19:03:35] <flyingparchment> delewis: do you find the U20 very quiet? [19:03:39] <kaiwai> delewis: I had a look, only one available [19:03:41] <delewis> flyingparchment: yep. [19:03:46] <sparcdr> ah [19:03:58] <delewis> kaiwai, g4lt-sb100: must've ended then. It was there yesterday. [19:04:03] <sparcdr> flyingparchment, according to many very silent, not very noticable [19:04:10] <delewis> it'll be re-listed as I've seen it on and off for the last few months. [19:04:11] <flyingparchment> sparcdr: yep that's what i heard [19:04:14] *** WickedWicky has joined #opensolaris [19:04:15] <sparcdr> oh does the Ultra-20 have gigabit? [19:04:17] <WickedWicky> w00t [19:04:21] <delewis> I think the BIN on it was $600 [19:04:28] <delewis> sparcdr: yes. [19:04:33] <delewis> two GigE interfaces. [19:04:34] <flyingparchment> heh, the main page on sun.co.uk says "Sun does Windows" [19:04:35] <sparcdr> great ^_^ [19:04:35] <WickedWicky> I didnt brick anything, the server just booted from the SXCE70 CD which was still in the drive [19:04:36] <kaiwai> delewis: yeah, going to keep my eye out, I remember seeing a nciely priced one a while ago, I kicked myself for not getting it when I had the opportunity [19:04:41] <flyingparchment> guess they gave up on solaris :D [19:04:47] <sparcdr> flyingparchment, be stupid not to [19:05:17] <sparcdr> noyb, Sun.com (US) has Windows announcement too, it's for servers at first, they might resell for workstations, don't know. eta is around 60 days before they do it [19:05:41] <FireflyST> asldkfjasld;kfl;l [19:06:04] <sparcdr> most of their x64 customers use their systems for windows, quality is the key. anyways, forgot who said it but even Windows is very stable on them [19:06:15] <delewis> I still don't understand what the big deal is. Sun sells Windows not? That's all? You could run Windows previously on any AMD64 gear Sun sold. [19:06:36] <sparcdr> Well, yeah, but it's more interoperabiliy and customer demand [19:06:37] <flyingparchment> is "UNIX Style Keyboard" a type 7 usb? [19:06:42] <sparcdr> read the announcement [19:06:45] <delewis> flyingparchment: yeah. [19:06:50] <delewis> Ultra 20 doesn't have PS/2. [19:06:55] <sparcdr> flyingparchment, theyre at 7 now eh [19:07:03] <flyingparchment> how is that? i'm still using an old ps/2 model m.. [19:07:06] <sparcdr> I use a Das Keyboard II myself (Like an IBM Model M) [19:07:07] <delewis> sparcdr: welcome to 2005. [19:07:13] <sparcdr> USB obviously :P [19:07:26] <delewis> flyingparchment: better than Type 6. Not quite Type 5, but close. [19:07:29] <sparcdr> delewis, I'm so used to secondhand Sun gear :o [19:07:42] <flyingparchment> delewis: i haven't used a sun keyboard since type 4, or whatever the SS10 came with :) [19:07:45] <sparcdr> finally going for it, directly from Sun, now call me back guys :O [19:07:48] <kaiwai> hm, I quite liked the old Sun mouse, IIRC type 5 with the chunky buttons [19:08:00] <FireflyST> this sound card is pissing me off [19:08:11] <sparcdr> I used a type 5c for a year myself, before upgrading to a type 6, but Mini-DIN variants are uncomment [19:08:15] <sparcdr> *uncommon [19:08:23] <sparcdr> haha chunky [19:08:24] <FireflyST> anyone know if I can find out if there's an update to opensound? [19:08:25] <sparcdr> :/ [19:08:34] <sparcdr> FireflyST, latest is 4 dot something [19:08:51] *** migi has quit IRC [19:09:22] <kaiwai> sparcdr: yeah, chunky, well built, could be used as a weapon against people asking questions [19:09:42] <kaiwai> although, a taser is the way to go these days - "don't taze me bro!" [19:09:49] <sparcdr> my model m could too (Circo 1987) [19:10:03] *** alanc-away is now known as alanc [19:10:11] <sparcdr> weighs around 6lb, beat a bum over the head knock all front teeth out and still have 90% of the keycaps on it [19:10:56] <kaiwai> hmm, Sun sold software in a box? [19:11:04] <kaiwai> geeze, all I got was a media folder [19:11:33] <sparcdr> yepper kaiwai [19:11:38] <FireflyST> sparcdr: there's something newer than 4.0? [19:11:53] <sparcdr> yeah FireflyST, I think it's 4.1 let me check my archive [19:11:54] <g4lt-sb100> kaiwai, my 2.5.1 media kit came in a box [19:12:07] <kaiwai> hmm, I feel kinda left out :P [19:12:14] <sparcdr> oss-solaris-v4.0-1006.i386.pkg [19:12:34] <kaiwai> I wish oss didn't suck so much [19:12:44] <sparcdr> :/ [19:12:47] *** nostoi has quit IRC [19:12:54] <CIA-25> danmcd: 6314610 audit_syslog(5) plugin module logs IP addresses in host byte order, Contributed by Chad Mynhier (cmynhier at gmail dot com). [19:12:55] <sparcdr> it's FOSS for OpenSolaris (CDDL) give it 6mo [19:12:58] <alanc> when Sun was charging $800 for a copy of Solaris, it came in a nice big box [19:13:07] <sparcdr> better than no sound or built-in, at least if you have more than 2.1 system [19:13:13] <sparcdr> alanc: lol! [19:13:34] *** FBdev has joined #opensolaris [19:13:45] <sparcdr> 800 bucks !? freakin sh*t man. $30 + support contract (~300) is much much more realistic :) [19:14:03] <delewis> sparcdr: you're forgetting what the viable alternatives were for a customer then. [19:14:06] <sparcdr> now I must wait for Sun to fix my PO a second time, still incorrect :/ [19:14:13] <kaiwai> HMM, I remember the $79 media kit deal [19:14:31] <sparcdr> delewis, you mean Tru64, IRIX, and AIX? Of course, $5000 vs $800 is a no brainer :P [19:14:59] <sparcdr> anyways pantera told me to burn things [19:15:02] <sparcdr> so I will [19:15:10] <Stric> then pair them up with OracleFS whatever it was called now ;) [19:15:25] <sparcdr> Stric, I'm pairing my hands with an Ultra-20 very soon [19:16:28] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris [19:16:28] <sparcdr> alanc, other kernel developers, you know what WARNING: set_cmd<2,0> timeout 0,0,0,2eab means? [19:16:42] * alanc is not a kernel developer [19:16:50] <sparcdr> alanc, sorry [19:17:00] <sparcdr> well maybe someone here knows what it means :) [19:17:08] *** dunc has joined #opensolaris [19:17:20] <alanc> and I have no idea what that message is about - assume it's specific to some driver [19:17:21] <sparcdr> alanc: what do you work on? X11? [19:17:23] <alanc> yes [19:17:32] <sparcdr> okay, cool. [19:17:39] *** nprice has quit IRC [19:17:50] <sparcdr> Probably the dumb Cisco MPI-350 spitting out things [19:18:00] *** _mw46_ has joined #opensolaris [19:18:35] <sparcdr> NOTICE: Cisco 802.11 minipci card [19:18:35] <sparcdr> NOTICE: the version of the firmware in the wifi card `Cisco Systems 350 Series minipci` is 5.00.03 then the above stuff [19:19:16] *** _mw46_ is now known as mw46 [19:21:12] <sparcdr> okay, dmesg is telling me that an interrupt is being shared (Performance degradation warning) [19:22:50] <kaiwai> I hate when that happens [19:23:05] <kaiwai> hopefully future solaris releases will fix that [19:23:11] <sparcdr> haha [19:23:19] <sparcdr> it's just because it's a laptop [19:23:20] <sparcdr> :/ [19:23:27] <sparcdr> probably the sound card [19:23:48] <kaiwai> or something unsupported [19:24:13] <sparcdr> it's not an unsupported issue, everything works [19:24:17] *** jafari has joined #opensolaris [19:24:24] <sparcdr> it merely says performance may suffer [19:24:50] <kaiwai> off to bed I go :) [19:25:01] <kaiwai> on the good side, atleast my cpu frequency scaling works [19:25:08] <sparcdr> haha [19:25:11] <sparcdr> not sure about mine [19:25:21] <sparcdr> what would I run to check that? [19:25:23] <FireflyST> what's frequency scaling? [19:25:36] <holcomb> kstat cpu_info or something [19:25:39] <sparcdr> FireflyST, CpuFreq, speedstep [19:25:52] <kaiwai> kstat cpu_info [19:26:07] <sparcdr> nope not working ;/ [19:26:16] <kaiwai> under 'supported frequencies' [19:26:46] <sparcdr> 1.80Ghz Mobile Intel Pentium 4, clock_MHz: 1800, and nothing more than standard cpu info [19:27:02] <kaiwai> hmm, old laptop I guess? [19:27:07] <sparcdr> sorta [19:27:17] <sparcdr> but linux/windows work with the cpufreq, typically 1/2 speed [19:27:32] <sparcdr> not running anything, not even X11 [19:28:29] <kaiwai> anyway, off I go :) [19:28:48] <FireflyST> I reeeeeally wish the speaker sound worked on this laptop [19:28:58] <sparcdr> works on here aside from speedstep [19:29:02] <FireflyST> I hate rebooting into pissta just to get it [19:29:07] <sparcdr> o.o [19:29:13] <sparcdr> why not downgrade to XP? [19:29:29] <FireflyST> that doesn't solve my opensolaris sound driver problem [19:29:32] <sparcdr> unless you like the dialogs showing you mb/s and 700mb ram :) [19:29:39] <sparcdr> you said pissta [19:29:41] <sparcdr> :) [19:30:00] <FireflyST> ok, windows XP is windows extra piss also [19:30:07] <sparcdr> true [19:30:14] <sparcdr> at least it doesnt consume all of your ram :) [19:30:21] *** reflect_ is now known as reflect [19:30:38] <sparcdr> brb [19:30:55] <sparcdr> quick question first actually. what exactly is "basicreg"? [19:31:27] <sparcdr> ah nm [19:31:30] <sparcdr> svcprop told me [19:31:31] <sparcdr> :) [19:31:41] <FireflyST> also, that would mean looking for drivers for this laptop that work in XP, which it did not ship with [19:31:50] <sparcdr> "sconadm register -c -m autoreg" under start/exec [19:31:54] <sparcdr> FireflyST, yeah I understand [19:32:33] <sparcdr> if it was all Intel, northbridge, chip, and used standard bluetooth, be a non-issue, I'm assuming it has some weird stuff in it [19:33:10] <sparcdr> yeah benny hill theme xD [19:34:21] <TheBonsai> can i boot opensolaris on a fjs primepower? [19:34:35] <sparcdr> TheBonsai, most likely [19:35:15] <sparcdr> how would I manually unconfigure a driver, to prevent it from loading? [19:35:24] *** pjlv has joined #opensolaris [19:35:35] <wesolows> exclude: in /etc/system [19:35:41] <wesolows> or just rename the driver binary [19:36:08] <TheBonsai> well, it breaks booting /.../sun4u, and /.../sun4us isn't present (it's an osol distribution) [19:36:29] <tinman21> or remove it from /etc/driver_aliases and /etc/path_to_inst [19:36:31] <wesolows> you're really asking whether your distribution supports it [19:36:34] <tinman21> x86 [19:36:39] <wesolows> so ask your vendor [19:36:54] <wesolows> tinman21: that's not necessarily good enough [19:36:57] <sparcdr> wesolows, I'll try excluse [19:37:06] <sparcdr> and the vendor wouldnt support me anyways [19:37:07] <delewis> TheBonsai: no, you'll need the Fujitsu-supplied Solaris media. [19:37:14] <sparcdr> network/pcan is probably what it is [19:37:20] <delewis> SPARC64 != sun4u. [19:37:21] <sparcdr> where's the modules stored? [19:37:41] *** cydork has quit IRC [19:37:46] <sparcdr> TheBonsai, it might boot, might not, probably brick at finding disks tbh [19:38:01] <sparcdr> so yeah where's the modules located? [19:38:20] *** pfa3rh has joined #opensolaris [19:38:40] <sparcdr> found it [19:38:50] <TheBonsai> will dig a bit through the net - well, it's just for checking out zfs (personal use and personal interest), so a sol10 might fit, if it's already included (didn't follow news) [19:38:59] <delewis> just because a system is labeled as 'SPARC' implies that it's compliant with either SPARCv8 and SPARCv9, and these are ISA-level specifications only. The implementation is free to implement whatever the specification does not specify (say, the MMU) and Solaris must be cognizant of that. [19:39:48] <flyingparchment> isn't the fujitsu stuff being integrated with nevada? [19:39:55] <delewis> flyingparchment: newer stuff only. [19:41:00] *** dodeskjeggen_ has quit IRC [19:41:35] *** jcea has joined #opensolaris [19:41:46] *** ShadowHntr has quit IRC [19:42:37] *** cmihai has joined #OpenSolaris [19:43:31] *** dodeskjeggen_ has joined #opensolaris [19:47:04] *** chris_d has joined #opensolaris [19:47:36] *** bubbva has joined #opensolaris [19:47:55] <chris_d> After upgrading our Solaris box to Build 68, our smcwebserver has stopped working. [19:48:04] *** johnlev has joined #opensolaris [19:48:08] <chris_d> Any ideas where to begin troubleshooting this? [19:48:15] <chris_d> smcboot is running. [19:48:27] <chris_d> smcwebserver status tells me the console is available. [19:48:42] <chris_d> but https://ourserver:6789 is not working. [19:49:37] <sparcdr> o.o [19:49:52] <flyingparchment> solution: don't use smc, it sucks [19:49:59] <sparcdr> agreed [19:50:00] <sparcdr> :/ [19:50:05] <sparcdr> useless [19:50:07] <palowoda> Wow somebody uses smc [19:50:12] <chris_d> :) [19:50:13] <chris_d> OK. [19:50:14] <chris_d> I get all that. [19:50:24] <chris_d> But, I have users that aren't comfortable with the command line. [19:50:35] <chris_d> They need to be able to manipulate ZFS stuff. [19:51:12] <sparcdr> o.o [19:51:17] <sparcdr> that's rich :) [19:51:18] *** Giaco has quit IRC [19:51:31] <sparcdr> they'll replace it with a shiny soon, don't pout :D [19:52:25] <sparcdr> would disabling sma cause problems with users on auto_boot (in relation to autofs home mounting) [19:52:36] <sparcdr> it's timing out, I disabled a few things [19:52:53] <flyingparchment> i don't think sma is related to autofs [19:53:05] <sparcdr> what would cause a local mount to timeout? [19:53:18] <flyingparchment> are you sure it's local? hostname matches? [19:53:21] <sparcdr> I'd assume nscd (Caching daemon) [19:53:25] <flyingparchment> local mounts are lofs, that should be impossible to timeout.. [19:53:43] <sparcdr> yeah, sparcdr uranium:/export/home/sparcdr and nodename and hosts match [19:53:45] <timsf> chris_d there's log files in /var/log/webconsole/console that should help [19:54:06] <flyingparchment> sparcdr: nothing useful in logs/dmesg? [19:54:07] <sparcdr> automountd[329]: server uranium not responding [19:54:09] <chris_d> Anytime I've had timeout issues, local or otherwise, it's been b0rked DNS. [19:54:35] <flyingparchment> hmm, that's an NFS error [19:54:38] <sparcdr> console-login existed with status 1 [19:54:50] <sparcdr> *exited [19:55:09] <sparcdr> nothing in syslog [19:55:17] <sparcdr> ah svcs -vs :) [19:55:25] <sparcdr> dbus :/ [19:55:42] <sparcdr> rmvolmgr dependens on hal and rmvolmgr depends on dbus [19:56:12] *** SYS64738 has joined #opensolaris [19:56:25] <chris_d> timsf: Both logs show normal startup. [19:56:26] <flyingparchment> rmvolmgr shouldn't be related to autofs [19:56:32] <sparcdr> oh and inetd is the culprit [19:56:33] <flyingparchment> unless it confuses autofs if it doesn't start properly [19:56:34] <sparcdr> well it is [19:56:49] <chris_d> timsf: Thinking the port had changed, I did an nmap--there are no open ports (other than the obvious ones). [19:57:19] <sparcdr> svc:/network/inetd:default is not running and 1 dependent service is not running: svc:/milestone/multi-user-server:default [19:57:58] <sparcdr> so hal and dbus pissed off rmvolmgr which pissed off multi-user-server which was further bricked by inetd [19:58:38] <palowoda> A brick party [19:58:46] <sparcdr> :o [19:58:54] <sparcdr> still timing out hmm [19:59:01] <sparcdr> dns is fine [19:59:20] <sparcdr> iprb0 is static with hostname.iprb0 set and hosts set [19:59:28] <sparcdr> it just got confused [20:00:16] <CIA-25> johnlev: 6606811 slight mis-merge in apic code [20:01:07] <timsf> Hrm, that's weird chris_d how are you starting / stopping the console (smcwebserver stop/start ?) [20:02:16] *** FBdev has quit IRC [20:02:50] *** Shiv__ has joined #opensolaris [20:03:51] *** timsf has quit IRC [20:04:07] <chris_d> timsf: Yes. smcwebserver start [20:05:34] *** Dar is now known as Dar_HOME [20:06:56] *** FelipeBare has joined #opensolaris [20:07:44] *** Shiv__ has quit IRC [20:08:12] <sparcdr> it's it wbem [20:08:21] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC [20:10:41] *** FBdev has joined #opensolaris [20:10:49] *** FBdev has quit IRC [20:16:25] <duri> can solaris x86 boot off of a usb flash drive ? or use one as install media during installation ? [20:16:47] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris [20:18:21] <sparcdr> duri, depending on if the BIOS supports booting from removable media, yes. I saw it on some Sun blog. [20:18:36] <stevel> Belenix supports a liveusb [20:18:54] * sparcdr pets #opensolaris [20:19:08] <sparcdr> nice kitty :D [20:19:22] <sparcdr> actually you guys are very receptive to feedback, I like it here [20:21:09] *** mikefut has quit IRC [20:23:20] <sparcdr> so yeah that auto_home problem was dns [20:23:41] *** eboutilier has quit IRC [20:23:44] <sparcdr> i forgot i set the hostname on the interface itself, and used the nodename as the mount server, and it was trying to nfs [20:24:52] <chris_d> sparcdr: :) [20:25:33] <sparcdr> :) [20:25:50] <sparcdr> uranium says hi2u (SDX, 64a) [20:29:37] <sparcdr> why is OpenSolaris still using Xorg 6.9? [20:29:43] *** Triskelios has joined #opensolaris [20:29:52] <stevel> it's not [20:29:58] <sparcdr> ah ok [20:30:06] <stevel> it's using 7.3 i thought [20:30:09] <sparcdr> SDX 04/04 is (B64a) [20:30:10] <chris_d> Latest builds are into the 7.x range. [20:30:21] <sparcdr> gotcha thanks [20:30:31] <chris_d> Yeah, well. Build 72 is current. :) [20:30:39] <stevel> you're running a fairly old build [20:30:44] <sparcdr> not old [20:30:48] <stevel> it was overhauled in 71 or 72 [20:30:56] <sparcdr> it's Solaris Developer Express [20:30:59] <stevel> 5 months old [20:31:01] <sparcdr> new one coming out soon [20:31:03] <sparcdr> I know stevel [20:31:12] <chris_d> DevX is at Build 70 now. [20:31:23] <sparcdr> i just got the media a week ago [20:31:43] <sparcdr> requested it 3 days before that [20:31:44] <stevel> (X was overhauled in 71/72 i mean) [20:31:54] <stevel> alanc would know better [20:32:04] <sparcdr> sun's media kit is still 64a then [20:32:28] <chris_d> Don't use the Media Kit. It's always lagging too far behind. [20:32:40] <coffman> did i bitched about sxce not working on non sse machines since b66? http://onetruth.blogsome.com/2007/09/19/solaris-express-not-working-on-non-sse-x86-machines/ [20:32:45] *** timsf has joined #opensolaris [20:32:45] <sparcdr> i dont have the bandwidth [20:33:03] <palowoda> Use somebody elses bandwidth :) [20:33:04] <Triskelios> well, that was weird [20:33:14] <Triskelios> someone just walked in and handed me b73 DVDs [20:33:15] <sparcdr> i cant download except 12-3am, and i cant download anything larger than 3.9gb [20:33:20] <alanc> sparcdr: even B64a had Xorg 7.2 - you must be looking in the wrong spot [20:33:24] <sparcdr> i dont live in that kind of area [20:33:28] <chris_d> sparcdr: I'd be happy to send you a current (Build 72) DVD. [20:33:38] <sparcdr> it says on statup Xorg 6.9 [20:33:41] <sparcdr> really chris_d ? [20:33:42] <chris_d> sparcdr: The download is split into multiple files, all smaller than that. [20:33:59] <sparcdr> again, i can only download 1800mb in my "free" period [20:34:03] <chris_d> sparcdr: It'd take you a couple of nights, but you'd be able to get it. Probably faster than a media kit. :) [20:34:06] <sparcdr> it's 1100mb/ea [20:34:12] <alanc> and you're sure it's 64a? 7.2 went into nv_58 [20:34:16] <sparcdr> yes [20:34:25] <richlowe> sparcdr: which version# are you looking at? [20:34:26] <sparcdr> anything you want me to print out? [20:34:26] <alanc> weird [20:34:31] <richlowe> the package versions still claim to be 6.9.0 [20:34:36] <richlowe> Xorg -version claims to be 7.2 [20:35:00] <alanc> oh yeah, I still need to change the package versions to something that looks nothing like the Xserver version so they stop confusing people [20:35:07] <stevel> X Window System Version 1.3.0 [20:35:09] <stevel> :-P [20:35:12] *** FBdev has joined #opensolaris [20:35:23] <stevel> mine musta really regressed [20:35:28] <sparcdr> SUNWxorg-server package version: 6.9.0.5.11.6400,REV=0,2007.04.24 [20:35:35] <richlowe> Yeah, that's the wrong one. [20:35:37] <sparcdr> from Xorg -version [20:35:51] <alanc> that's the version of the package, which is not the Xorg version [20:35:52] <sparcdr> why both servers then? [20:35:58] <sparcdr> im using /usr/X11R6/bin/Xorg [20:36:05] <sparcdr> ahhhh [20:36:08] <sparcdr> damn you're right [20:36:11] <sparcdr> 7.2.0 [20:36:18] <sparcdr> 22 Jan 2007 [20:36:36] <alanc> 1.3 went into nv_71, currently looking at 1.4/7.3 around nv_80 [20:36:58] <sparcdr> haha yeah naming convention changeds [20:37:07] <sparcdr> okay im not in that bad shape then [20:37:08] <sparcdr> :) [20:37:43] <sparcdr> X :0 + twm :X [20:37:44] <alanc> Xorg server 1.3 was the first one to be released between X11 release cycles, so they changed it to report the Xorg server version instead of the overall X11 version and much confusion ensued [20:37:51] *** estibi has joined #opensolaris [20:38:12] <alanc> you're really running Xorg 1.2.0 now, it just tells you 7.2 [20:38:15] <sparcdr> alanc, X.org 7.0+ is modular, but what major changes are there from Xorg 7.2 and 1.x? [20:38:25] <sparcdr> oh [20:38:30] <sparcdr> so 1.3 and 1.2? [20:38:41] <alanc> between 1.2/7.2 and 1.3, the big change was Xrandr 1.2 [20:38:55] * alanc is going to lunch now - back later if you have more questions [20:39:23] <sparcdr> good idea [20:39:25] <sparcdr> ill be here alanc [20:44:06] *** mw46 has quit IRC [20:47:06] <FireflyST> hi [20:47:18] <FireflyST> anyone seen Triskelios? [20:47:29] <FireflyST> ~seen foo [20:48:20] *** perlmonk has joined #opensolaris [20:48:31] <FireflyST> Triskelios: hey [20:51:19] *** bengtf has quit IRC [20:53:06] <FireflyST> oh, other question maybe someone can answer, how do you disable tap-click on the pointer pad on a laptop in JDS? [20:55:14] <Triskelios> FireflyST: hey [20:55:32] <FireflyST> hi [20:55:46] <FireflyST> Just curious if you ever got that driver/codec fixed [20:59:48] <g4lt-sb100> OTOH, how do you ENABLe one of the buttons to be the middle :/ [20:59:56] *** jacobs has joined #opensolaris [21:01:41] <FireflyST> I just hate tap-click [21:04:01] <Triskelios> FireflyST: for my touchpad I had to switch to the alps driver to get tap-click to work, guess your defaults are different [21:04:32] <FireflyST> I have an alps pad [21:04:35] <g4lt-sb100> prolly a synaprics, the other guys [21:04:50] <FireflyST> I don't want tap-click to work [21:04:55] <FireflyST> I want it to not-work [21:05:09] <FireflyST> but I'm sure you understand taht [21:05:31] <Triskelios> yeah, mine wouldn't tap-click with the regular mouse driver [21:05:49] <g4lt-sb100> tap clikc is made of awesome :P [21:06:02] <FireflyST> no, tap click is made of dick [21:06:27] <Triskelios> I actually needed the driver for using the side as a scroll wheel, which is kind of essential for me [21:06:28] <victori> what version does solaris have of gnome? b72 [21:06:39] <Triskelios> victori: 2.18.1 [21:06:44] *** bnitz has left #opensolaris [21:06:49] <victori> nice [21:07:06] <g4lt-sb100> Triskelios, you got that to work? how? [21:07:20] *** jwk404 has left #opensolaris [21:07:24] <Triskelios> g4lt-sb100: vuidalp2 [21:07:33] <Triskelios> vuidsyn probably works too [21:07:34] <g4lt-sb100> thank you :D [21:07:50] <Triskelios> on jurgen's site I think [21:07:58] <Triskelios> I modified mine slightly [21:08:21] <sparcdr> COOL. got my ultra-20 ordered [21:09:00] <Triskelios> victori: the next build of vermilion will be 2.20 and merged into SXCE, not sure which build of SXCE will have it [21:09:27] <Triskelios> I should probably look at this b73 DVD I just got =P [21:09:44] <victori> you pay for a subscription? [21:10:05] <Triskelios> no, someone just walked into the office and handed me two of them [21:10:08] <victori> oh [21:10:09] <sparcdr> o.o [21:10:46] <victori> I might need to give solaris a try on the desktop [21:10:48] <Triskelios> "Evaluation Software" [21:10:57] <Triskelios> I like it on my laptop [21:11:09] <sparcdr> it's not [21:11:20] <sparcdr> "license not required" [21:11:25] <victori> not sure how I feel about package management situation compared to say debian,arch or even gentoo [21:11:41] <sparcdr> victori: not so good, but basic and it works [21:11:44] <sparcdr> it wont hold your hand [21:12:17] <Triskelios> victori: I've been working on getting SFE as a viable source for all the packages I need [21:12:27] <sparcdr> I personally do C++/Java work, so it's fine and dandy, works well actually. Got an ultra-20 just now ordered. I have years of experience with FreeBSD though. [21:12:37] <victori> Oh I don't care about that, it isn't the holding your hand part but the notifications of updates etc [21:12:51] <sparcdr> victori: has that mostly [21:12:54] <sparcdr> Sun Connection [21:13:03] <Triskelios> SXCE needs to be upgraded from DVDs still [21:13:14] <victori> ya a really pitty [21:13:17] <victori> real* [21:13:17] <sparcdr> victori: it's free don't sweat [21:13:34] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris [21:13:55] <sparcdr> alanc: glx disabled on 7500 series radeon? I enabled dri + glx in xorg.conf no glx extension [21:14:32] <Triskelios> sparcdr: check /var/log/Xorg.0.log [21:16:22] <sparcdr> cant find libglx.so in /usr/X11/lib/modules/extensions eh [21:16:22] <sparcdr> :/ [21:16:35] <sparcdr> time for a find [21:16:56] <sparcdr> in mesa [21:17:04] *** sioraiocht has quit IRC [21:17:05] <sparcdr> it's looking in the wrong place :) [21:17:57] *** dodeskjeggen_ has quit IRC [21:18:05] *** sioraiocht has joined #opensolaris [21:18:08] *** Adam____ has joined #opensolaris [21:19:10] *** Adam____ has quit IRC [21:19:14] <Triskelios> sparcdr: um, that's the correct place, a symlink managed by ogl-select probably [21:19:34] *** Adam____ has joined #opensolaris [21:19:35] <sparcdr> ah i disabled him ;_; [21:19:46] <Triskelios> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 46 2007-04-26 12:07 /usr/X11/lib/modules/extensions/libglx.so -> ../../../../../var/run/opengl/server/libglx.so [21:20:02] <sparcdr> yeah [21:20:05] <sparcdr> i found it [21:20:14] <sparcdr> it's there, it's having mind melt [21:20:42] <Adam____> Hi, I have a simple question...how long is booting Solaris? [21:20:59] <sparcdr> Adam____, under a minute [21:21:44] <sparcdr> got it Triskelios [21:21:45] <sparcdr> :) [21:21:47] <Triskelios> depends on your hardware, my laptop has slow disks and it takes a full minute [21:22:02] <sparcdr> slower than ass though [21:22:07] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC [21:22:12] <sparcdr> 2-3x slower than linux dri with this card [21:22:20] <Triskelios> ouch [21:22:33] <Triskelios> the intel DRI is working well for me [21:22:36] <sparcdr> 167.223 FPS, it got 480 typically [21:22:47] <Adam____> wow [21:22:47] <sparcdr> this is a shoddy old ati 7500 series, has no chance [21:23:27] <Triskelios> Adam____: our fileserver boots in like 30 seconds though [21:23:41] <Adam____> without X-server [21:23:48] <Adam____> I think so [21:23:49] <Adam____> ;-) [21:23:57] <sparcdr> my notebook im typing on gets 5500fps [21:24:19] <sparcdr> bad radeon no cookie :/ [21:24:29] *** dlynes_laptop has joined #opensolaris [21:24:31] <sparcdr> better than Solaris 10 GA, gets about 101 FPS yay [21:24:48] <Adam____> my friend have radeon 7500 and beryl works ok [21:24:54] <Adam____> (on linux) [21:25:03] <sparcdr> Adam____, this is OpenSolaris, I know Linux works with it [21:25:08] <sparcdr> not great, Beryl kinda should run on 32mb [21:25:18] <sparcdr> this is a mobility, so it's 16mb, desktops are 32mb [21:25:36] <Triskelios> sparcdr: ouch [21:25:42] <sparcdr> it sucks either way but i could run kde's opengl screensavers on linux fine [21:25:54] <sparcdr> ie: mplayer should be able to handle a dvd and id be happy [21:25:58] <sparcdr> not gonna happen though [21:26:12] <sparcdr> it got 500fps on linux back in the xorg 6.8 days [21:26:31] <sparcdr> oh well Ultra-20 comes in under 5 days [21:27:04] <sparcdr> Quadro FX 1500 is much better than ATI Radeon Mobility 7500, probably better than my mobile 8600 GT in here too :) [21:27:24] <sparcdr> anyways brb fiddling around with SDX on my T30 [21:27:58] <Adam____> sparcdr, you have a T30 with Solaris? [21:28:36] <Triskelios> if you care about Xv, I had acceptable Xv performance at 1600x1200 on a r128 (!) with b47-b53 at least [21:28:39] <sparcdr> yeah perfect [21:28:52] <sparcdr> most compatible notebook ive ever ran solaris on [21:29:04] <sparcdr> aside from speedstep, everything works [21:29:42] <sparcdr> sound, two wifi cards (Mini-PCI, PCMCIA), ethernet, suspend/resume generally works, fast too [21:29:42] <Triskelios> SpeedStep should be fixed in snv_73 for most systems [21:29:53] <sparcdr> Triskelios, thanks for the heads up [21:30:01] <Adam____> wow [21:30:23] <sparcdr> cost me 570 more than 5 years ago, it's been good to me [21:30:32] <sparcdr> that's CHEAP for an IBM :) [21:30:43] <sparcdr> gah NAS died out >:o [21:30:46] <Adam____> I'm new in Solaris, I'm thinking about check it [21:31:02] <sparcdr> Adam____, have experience with FreeBSD or Linux? [21:31:13] <Triskelios> sparcdr: you have working suspend? [21:31:17] <Adam____> in Linux [21:31:25] <sparcdr> Adam____, not the same btw [21:31:34] <Adam____> I have few servers in work on Linux [21:31:35] <sparcdr> Triskelios, let me try it [21:31:49] <Adam____> one PBX based on Asterisk [21:31:59] <Adam____> one with SugarCRM [21:32:06] <sparcdr> yeah, okay Adam____ [21:32:17] <sparcdr> SugarCRM is not Linux-centric btw [21:32:58] <sparcdr> about xv, what would I do to get the performance up? [21:34:09] <sparcdr> Triskelios, my mistake not implemented, no suspend/resume [21:34:30] <sparcdr> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=139236 [21:34:54] <Adam____> is everybody on this irc who develop in Java on Solaris? [21:35:01] <sparcdr> no Adam____ [21:35:25] <Triskelios> not that many people here use Java actually.. [21:35:30] <sparcdr> it's a separate operating system, java is not low-level, some here do java, but it's not related. Solaris takes a lot of code from OpenSolaris [21:35:42] <sparcdr> It's mainly C/C++ work here [21:36:21] <sparcdr> think Linux + 3rd party stuff but more organized. We're an organization and an OS :) [21:36:45] *** Doc has joined #opensolaris [21:36:55] <sparcdr> Triskelios, you meant use Xv with mplayer right? [21:36:57] <Triskelios> I didn't have to do anything in particular for reasonable Xv, don't remember if I even had working DRI for that [21:37:06] <Triskelios> sparcdr: I used gxine [21:37:10] <sparcdr> It looks like dri works [21:37:12] <sparcdr> okay [21:37:16] <Triskelios> mplayer screws up aspect ratio [21:37:21] <sparcdr> ill tell you how it goes [21:37:27] <sparcdr> this is 4:3 it's not a problem [21:37:34] <sparcdr> 14" thinkpad [21:37:42] <cmihai> Adam____, Solaris is a fine Java development platform. You have Java JDK / JRE / JEE integrated in Solaris, and you have IDE's and tools such as NetBeans, Java Studio Creator, JStudio and 3rd party tools such as JDeveloper, Eclipse and so on. Also, you can use DTrace with Java apps, and that's something you can only do on Solaris :-) [21:37:56] <sparcdr> the notebook im ircing with is 15.4" WSXGA with 16:10 ;/ [21:38:02] *** jharr has joined #opensolaris [21:38:13] <sparcdr> cmihai, cough FreeBSD + Diablo JDK [21:38:14] <sparcdr> >_> [21:38:21] *** movement has joined #opensolaris [21:38:32] *** movement has quit IRC [21:38:37] <sparcdr> well we're moreover saying it's an ideal "stable" development OS :) [21:38:38] <cmihai> sparcdr, oh please, FreeBSD doesn't have DTrace yet (only in FreeBSD 7, that's -HEAD) [21:38:47] <sparcdr> cmihai, still works :P [21:38:48] <cmihai> And it only has like 70% of the probes. [21:38:56] <jharr> does `zfs list` report data using 2^10 units (as in kibibyte), or 10^3 units (kilobyte) [21:38:57] <sparcdr> not sure if there's probes for diablo jdk though, so yeah [21:38:59] <cmihai> Plus. FreeBSD + Java == pain :P [21:39:04] <sparcdr> nah [21:39:09] <sparcdr> it's okay, just not j2ee [21:39:22] <cmihai> Well, not they have binaries and stuff for JDK / JRE, but it was more of a PITA [21:39:25] <sparcdr> I've gotten glassfish and tomcat working fine though [21:39:33] <cmihai> Sure [21:39:44] <sparcdr> http://www.carcinogenic-studios.com:8080/ [21:40:03] <cmihai> Adam____, also, if you want applications servers, There's Sun Glassfish reference platform and Tomcat (in CoolStack). Add SMF and Containers to the mix, and you're ready to roll. [21:40:33] <cmihai> Adam____, and if you're going for oracle, JDeveloper and SQL Developer run just fine. You can also run your own DB in a container for testing. [21:40:47] <sparcdr> cmihai, JIRA running on FreeBSD with Diablo JDK [21:40:56] *** Gman has joined #opensolaris [21:41:05] <sparcdr> sorry *jre :) [21:41:10] <victori> cmihai: fyi it got pulled from -head [21:41:11] <cmihai> sparcdr, most stuff runs everywhere, that's why it's Java ffs :P [21:41:12] *** yippi has joined #opensolaris [21:41:13] <Triskelios> jharr: looks like KiB to me... [21:41:22] <sparcdr> for server stuff works great [21:41:29] <cmihai> victori no shit? Licensing issues? [21:41:32] <sfire||mouse> sparcdr: jira is a nice system [21:41:37] <Triskelios> jharr: should be consistent with df -h [21:41:39] <sparcdr> cmihai, no [21:41:45] <sparcdr> cmihai, linux is the one with licensing issues [21:42:02] <victori> cmihai: correct [21:42:05] <sparcdr> bsd is fine with cddl :) [21:42:16] <victori> they want it out of the kernel and into user space [21:42:17] <cmihai> Well, not quite. [21:42:18] <sparcdr> just not core stuff so much, so it's painful, yes [21:42:23] *** nenolod has joined #opensolaris [21:42:27] <cmihai> Yeah. [21:42:30] <sparcdr> victori: not really, zfs in fuse is painful! [21:42:31] <cmihai> Oh well. [21:42:36] <cmihai> What about ZFS? [21:42:42] <cmihai> Did they pull that out too? [21:42:43] <victori> sparcdr: I am talking about freebsd [21:42:46] <victori> and dtrace [21:42:49] <sparcdr> ZFS has to use FUSE on linux because Linux sucks :) [21:42:51] <nenolod> how does one do a Xen OpenSolaris nv66 domU from Linux? [21:42:57] <sparcdr> victori: right, so agreed on that [21:43:06] <sparcdr> no they havent actually [21:43:13] <victori> pitty, licensing/politics stifling progress [21:43:20] <jharr> Triskelios: is there any way to force `zfs list` to report numbers unrounded? [21:43:24] <wesolows> how is it stifling progress? If you want ZFS, use OpenSolaris. [21:43:27] <sparcdr> i prefer licensing under bsd, just use it [21:43:29] <wesolows> If you want GNU/Linux, use GNU/Linux. [21:43:43] <sparcdr> victori: nah, it's gpl being a dipshit [21:43:47] <victori> wesolows: I want to have my cake and it too [21:43:52] <wesolows> Give me one concrete example of a bug fix or enhancement that could have been made to ZFS but wasn't because of "licensing". [21:43:55] <Triskelios> nenolod: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/xen/docs/install-solaris-domu-iso.htm [21:43:56] <cmihai> http://dtrace.what-creek.com/ ->THIS SUCKS [21:43:57] <sparcdr> stallman has crumbs in his beard [21:43:58] <victori> eat it too*' [21:44:08] <nenolod> Triskelios, thank you [21:44:08] <cmihai> Pretty much means DTrace on FreeBSD is dead. [21:44:12] <sparcdr> agreed, good stuff [21:44:16] <cmihai> It was a nice dream. [21:44:25] <sparcdr> not exactly [21:44:29] <sparcdr> Mac OS X Leopard has full Dtrace [21:44:42] <victori> with a shiny GUI [21:44:46] <sparcdr> yep [21:44:47] <cmihai> sparcdr, meh [21:44:48] <sparcdr> Xray :) [21:44:49] <wesolows> Linux is a piece of shit. If you want to use it, go ahead. I won't tell you not to, and I won't berate you for it. But then you don't get to use ZFS, because quite frankly they weren't smart enough, dedicated enough, and competent enough to implement it. [21:44:50] <victori> yea [21:44:51] <cmihai> Or feh [21:45:00] <sparcdr> wesolows, agreed [21:45:12] <wesolows> Have your cake and eat it too? Use OpenSolaris. It's all-around better, AND it has ZFS. [21:45:21] <sparcdr> now i must work on my T30 (OpenSolaris of course) [21:45:21] *** saschahl has joined #opensolaris [21:45:25] <sparcdr> have to learn DTrace badly [21:45:28] * sparcdr is a lazy sysadmin [21:45:43] *** js has joined #opensolaris [21:45:49] <sparcdr> love SMF and zones though :) [21:45:53] <cmihai> wesolows, heh, so does MacOS :P [21:46:03] <cmihai> No zones though [21:46:32] <sparcdr> zones arent really a workstation thing unless you develop stuff and have deployments, osx server blows for large scale use [21:46:33] <cmihai> Didn't know about DTrace though. Cool. [21:46:43] <sparcdr> ZFS is in OS X Leopard too, mostly [21:46:48] <sparcdr> not bootable though [21:47:11] <cmihai> sparcdr, yes, I know, I've tried a recent build with ZFS [21:47:17] <sparcdr> comes out around the 7th of next month for anyone here who is into that stuff [21:47:37] <cmihai> Shit mate, you know MacOS is getting UNIX certified too right [21:47:38] <victori> sparcdr: they can be, kde zone and gnome zone [21:47:41] <sparcdr> I have a macbook pro, but that's the only mac, a lot of testing and vm stuff is what i use it for [21:47:44] *** yatesy has quit IRC [21:47:45] <nenolod> Triskelios, this mentions a solaris dom0. i don't have the ability to replace the dom0. :) [21:47:45] <sparcdr> it IS unix certified cmihai [21:47:48] <victori> I hate when I get KDE apps in my gnome menus [21:47:58] <Adam____> thanks, I'm must go [21:47:59] <sparcdr> victori: lawl [21:48:00] <Adam____> bye! [21:48:04] <sparcdr> bye Adam____ [21:48:08] <victori> sparcdr: ? [21:48:18] *** Adam____ has quit IRC [21:48:25] <cmihai> sparcdr, well, it's not out yet.\ [21:48:30] <sparcdr> kde apps making my gnome saggy [21:48:37] <sparcdr> it's out in 15 days or so [21:48:46] <victori> I like to see what is on the other side of the fence, and I really dislike the mash up of applications due to freedesktop standards [21:48:51] <sparcdr> better than FreeBSD and Linux if you're into that [21:48:54] <cmihai> Hm... [21:49:07] <sparcdr> blah stupid fscking pos [21:49:08] <cmihai> No, I'm not into pokemon [21:49:09] <holcomb> what's out in 15 days? [21:49:11] <sparcdr> h/o [21:49:14] <sparcdr> Leopard holcomb [21:49:19] <holcomb> oh neat. [21:49:36] <sparcdr> more or less, might be second week [21:49:59] <cmihai> Hm... then IBM with AIX 6.1 and their dtrace and zones clones... this is getting strage. [21:50:00] <sparcdr> no one knows anything except october, and not the last week [21:50:01] <sparcdr> burp [21:50:18] <sparcdr> cmihai, not a clone on osx [21:50:23] <sparcdr> didnt know they cloned it [21:50:28] <sparcdr> ibm that is [21:50:44] <Triskelios> nenolod: most of the domU instructions should be generic [21:50:49] <cmihai> And Oracle with Oracle Secure Files (ZFS clone) and ILM (similar to StorEdge QFS andSAM-FS) [21:50:56] <cmihai> sparcdr, check the AIX 6.1 open beta [21:51:09] <sparcdr> nah cmihai no RS/6000 or POWER6 laying around [21:51:17] <cmihai> Power 4,5,6 [21:51:22] <sparcdr> well, yeah [21:51:25] <cmihai> No Power 3 support though. [21:51:29] <sparcdr> unless it boots on my PS3 >_> [21:51:35] <cmihai> lol..no. [21:51:45] <sparcdr> daggonit [21:51:53] <cmihai> Hm... is it me ore are Solaris 10 features getting... cloned? [21:52:00] <sparcdr> opensolaris better resurrect the power port [21:52:01] <nenolod> Triskelios, i take it i should pull the kernel image off of the DVD and stash it somewhere too? [21:52:14] <sparcdr> cmihai, SMF = launchd = some ubuntu crap [21:52:24] <nenolod> sparcdr, launchd is Apple [21:52:25] <cmihai> Valgrind - DTrace [21:52:29] <sparcdr> I know nenolod [21:52:34] <nenolod> sparcdr, you're thinking of Upstart [21:52:35] <sparcdr> we're talking clones [21:52:41] <sparcdr> nenolod, still crap imho [21:52:46] <cmihai> launchd is mac.. isn't it? [21:52:49] <sparcdr> cmihai, not as good [21:52:50] <sparcdr> yes cmihai [21:52:58] <sparcdr> launchctl start com.apple.portmap [21:53:33] <sparcdr> stupid radeon 7500 makes me cringe [21:53:44] <cmihai> Oh, right, sorry, I thought you meant launchd is ubuntu :p. Lag ;-) [21:53:46] <sparcdr> nothing i can do to improve the framerate [21:53:52] <cmihai> Sure you can. [21:53:55] <sparcdr> cmihai, upstart as nenolod said [21:53:55] <cmihai> Install the old drivers [21:54:04] <cmihai> The ones that detected quake3.exe [21:54:06] <sparcdr> cmihai, they had 70fps less [21:54:10] <cmihai> and dropped quality to dou ble framerate [21:54:13] <cmihai> ;-). [21:54:18] <sparcdr> sorry? this is opensolaris on a t30 [21:54:23] <cmihai> So they could win in benchmarks hehe [21:54:27] <cmihai> It was a joke mate. [21:54:39] <cmihai> They did this a while ago.. when 7500 came out. [21:54:42] <sparcdr> i was thinking, exe, wha? smoking crack thee arr [21:54:45] <cmihai> Or some card around that. [21:55:01] <sparcdr> 7500 was the start for my pledge to kill and squash ati [21:55:11] <cmihai> They cheated in benchmarks with drivers.. they looked for quake3.exe. Rename it, and you get half the fps ;-) [21:55:14] <sparcdr> 9200 didnt impress me either [21:55:23] <sparcdr> neither did x1600 [21:55:29] <cmihai> Well.. [21:55:40] <cmihai> Now that AMD will open the source code and specs... [21:55:47] <cmihai> There might be some better drivers. [21:56:01] <cmihai> Unless, of course, AMD/Ati don't mention the various hardware issues they fix in software. [21:56:02] <sparcdr> FX5200, 6600, 6800, 7600, and 8600 are what I have good experience with (NVIDIA) [21:56:09] <sparcdr> cmihai, mainly security fixes :D [21:56:23] <Triskelios> nenolod: you should jsut need the Xen DVD image [21:56:32] <sparcdr> they arent releasing pre-9200 series code [21:56:33] <sparcdr> afaik [21:56:33] <cmihai> sparcdr, Well, I have 6600, 7900 and 8600mGT, and they rock. [21:56:35] <sparcdr> so im still sol [21:56:47] <sparcdr> cmihai, ill have Quadro 1500 in a few days [21:56:55] *** saschahl has left #opensolaris [21:56:58] <cmihai> cool. [21:57:00] <sparcdr> Ultra-20 of course :) [21:57:03] <cmihai> Quadro rocks in terms of 2D performance. [21:57:08] <sparcdr> large config because im sparcdr [21:57:09] <cmihai> I've seen them in Ultra-20, yeah [21:57:13] <cmihai> That's what I was thinking ;-P [21:57:21] <sparcdr> 3D is pretty good too [21:57:23] <sparcdr> so ive heard [21:57:24] <cmihai> (of) [21:57:29] <cmihai> sparcdr, less then 7900 [21:57:31] <sparcdr> yeah [21:57:36] <cmihai> 3D actually blows on quadro. [21:57:37] <nenolod> Triskelios, even without hardware virtualisation? [21:57:40] <cmihai> It's not ment for games. [21:57:45] <sparcdr> i have an 8600 gt in here, it'll be equal, this is a notebook [21:57:54] <_william_> sparcdr: hi, so finally you baught your U20 ? [21:57:59] <flyingparchment> cmihai: if it can't do 3d, what can it do? [21:58:00] <cmihai> sparcdr, cool, I have a 8600 GT in my laptop too. [21:58:02] <sparcdr> cmihai, not for gaming the ultra-20 [21:58:04] <cmihai> What brand? [21:58:10] <sparcdr> my notebook? [21:58:14] *** libkeise1 has joined #opensolaris [21:58:35] <cmihai> sparcdr, yeah [21:58:36] <sparcdr> MacBook Pro (3rd gen) with Core 2 [21:58:44] <cmihai> Oh, Santa Rosa platform then [21:58:48] <sparcdr> yeah [21:59:05] <sparcdr> Ive been playing with Solaris in VMware Fusion under x86_64 [21:59:06] <cmihai> I got an identical laptop from Acer for 3 times less ;P [21:59:12] <sparcdr> doubt that [21:59:23] <sparcdr> 3x less would be around 800 USD [21:59:41] *** mikefut has joined #opensolaris [21:59:42] <sparcdr> cheapest equal config with Santa Rosa was an ASUS Barebones (C90) at 33% less [21:59:48] <cmihai> Nope, Santa Rosa, Core 2, 250GB Disk, 4GB DDR2-800, 1GB on board cache, DVD [21:59:56] <sparcdr> doubt that [22:00:02] <Triskelios> nenolod: I think it should work [22:00:08] <sparcdr> at 800 bucks you cant find that [22:00:09] <cmihai> subwoofer sound, 2Ghz, 4MB cache and all that. [22:00:14] <cmihai> Not 800 bucks [22:00:16] <cmihai> gimme a sec [22:00:23] <sparcdr> same price i bet [22:00:24] <cmihai> what's euro / $? [22:00:32] <sparcdr> something like 1/2 [22:00:38] <quasi> not quite [22:00:41] <sparcdr> 1 USD = 2 Euro [22:00:46] <sparcdr> maybe im thinking GBP [22:00:46] <quasi> sparcdr: no [22:00:48] <cmihai> I paid about 1200 euro [22:01:03] <quasi> sparcdr: 1 GBP = 2 USD [22:01:16] <cmihai> 1 U.S. dollar = 0.715870857 Euros [22:01:17] <sparcdr> that's 1600 USD [22:01:19] <cmihai> Lol, USD sucks. [22:01:22] <e^ipi> $1 CAD = 1 USD [22:01:28] <e^ipi> that's pathetic for the USD [22:01:33] <cmihai> e^ipi, yeah, 0.98 actually. [22:01:34] <sparcdr> i looked hard for something equal, and it was 1800 for identical config [22:01:35] <e^ipi> and it means it's ebay shopping time for me [22:01:38] <quasi> cmihai: USD should be renamed US peso [22:01:43] <cmihai> yeah [22:01:51] <sparcdr> not identical per-se, had less disk, but anyways [22:01:57] <cmihai> In Canada, USD was actually worth less then CAD [22:01:58] <sparcdr> im in the us [22:01:59] <sparcdr> we get raped [22:02:10] <cmihai> sparcdr, heh, how much did you pay? [22:02:13] <e^ipi> sparcdr: sell me things [22:02:23] <sparcdr> I use OS X more than any system myself, so it's a tax that I kind of absorbed [22:02:24] <sparcdr> 2300 USD [22:02:32] <cmihai> Ouch [22:02:43] <sparcdr> nah [22:02:58] <sparcdr> I wouldnt trust an ASUS or Acer [22:03:00] <sparcdr> Bad experience with Acer [22:03:04] <cmihai> You realize that MacOS is the only difference? [22:03:11] <sparcdr> yep [22:03:43] <cmihai> Well, Acer was the only thing with a 8600GT here, so.. [22:03:46] <sparcdr> im more productive with this then some open-source system, so be it [22:03:51] <cmihai> Besides, their new design looks great. [22:03:55] <sparcdr> not gonna be windows either [22:04:10] <e^ipi> cmihai: whose new design? apple's? [22:04:13] <sparcdr> i go for build quality, im not gonna trust an acer [22:04:20] <cmihai> Even better then the Ferarri series. [22:04:24] <cmihai> e^ipi, nah, Acer Gemstone. [22:04:28] <e^ipi> oh [22:04:29] <sparcdr> equal quality would had been an IBM, they got out of the market [22:04:43] <e^ipi> leopard is looking to be like Tiger's ugly stepchild [22:04:55] <sparcdr> e^ipi, what don't you like? [22:05:03] <sparcdr> transparent menus are all i dont like tbh [22:05:04] <e^ipi> the mirrored shelf and the transparent menubar [22:05:05] <cmihai> sparcdr, well, so far, this is top notch. Doesn't even get warm to the touch, it's pretty damn solid, battery life is good and there are no visible flaws. [22:05:15] <sparcdr> cmihai, same here [22:05:17] <e^ipi> though I hear the menubar can be made opaque, so that's nice [22:05:17] <cmihai> Sure, it can't take a beating like my old Thinkpad [22:05:24] <cmihai> I used to throw that thing around ;-) [22:05:30] <cmihai> Solid as hell. [22:05:34] <sparcdr> cmihai, apples and oranges, i had bad experience with some brans, and im in the us, that would have cost 2000 USD [22:05:43] <sparcdr> *brands [22:05:50] <cmihai> sparcdr, I've had 3 ipods dye in 8 months. [22:05:51] <e^ipi> lack of brushed metal was a good decision though ( or rather, the introduction of it was a poor decision in the first place ) [22:05:55] <cmihai> Let's just say I don't like apples anymore ;-) [22:05:59] <cmihai> ermdie [22:06:00] <sparcdr> cmihai, that's not a computer [22:06:05] <cmihai> And it took them 2 months to fix them. [22:06:10] <cmihai> So much for instant replacement. [22:06:13] <sparcdr> who cares [22:06:16] <sparcdr> apples and oranges bud [22:06:17] <cmihai> No, but the service was crap. [22:06:31] <CIA-25> dm120769: backout 4046204/6603211: causes 6607084 [22:06:33] <sparcdr> ive had three apple notebooks all honored warrenty [22:06:44] <sparcdr> seems non-US has problems with apple [22:06:44] <WickedWicky> a question: can I compile packages on a Solaris 10/Opensolaris box and make them work on a Solaris 9 box? Are the variables I have to export? Cause I compiled something on my Ultra 5, and ldd tells me I need libc version SUNW_1.22.1 [22:07:08] <cmihai> WickedWicky, binary compatibility is only one way. [22:07:14] <cmihai> Compile it on your 9 box, and it will work on the 10 [22:07:18] <sparcdr> since shitsta smells bad and linux is full of zealots who use licensing to push people, sorry, fine with it [22:07:23] <sparcdr> and it boots whatever i want [22:07:34] <cmihai> So does mine [22:07:37] <WickedWicky> that's kinda gonna suck then... cause the solaris 9 box is my ss20 [22:07:38] <WickedWicky> :P [22:07:38] <sparcdr> i have multiple boxes [22:07:39] <cmihai> Even MacOS :P [22:07:42] <sparcdr> no need for solaris on it [22:07:46] <sparcdr> cmihai, illegal, and shoddy [22:07:52] <WickedWicky> thanks anyway :D [22:07:55] <sparcdr> bugs and more bugs from developer patch [22:08:09] <cmihai> Doesn't change the fact it works :-). Though to be honest, can't see what the fuss is all about. [22:08:10] <sparcdr> sorry patches on patches on a leaked version [22:08:19] <sparcdr> i did it in a t30 already, and it works [22:08:24] <sparcdr> not reliable [22:08:37] <sparcdr> you obviously havent used os x on a real mac long enough, but you hate apple, so whatever [22:09:20] <cmihai> I don't hate Apple. [22:09:26] <sparcdr> not gonna start a war, it works better for me than the alternatives, and i have two solaris boxes [22:09:29] <sparcdr> so there i said it [22:09:36] <sparcdr> i need to be able to test for os x too [22:09:41] *** _setuid_H has joined #opensolaris [22:10:30] <sparcdr> apple tax or not, just be aware my ultra-20 comes soon [22:10:35] <e^ipi> write against the open group's UNIX standard & it'll work on OSX [22:10:37] <sparcdr> ill be a happy camper [22:10:38] <sparcdr> :) [22:10:39] *** libkeiser has quit IRC [22:10:47] <e^ipi> leopard, anyways [22:10:47] <cmihai> ;-( [22:10:52] <sparcdr> e^ipi, that's a misnomer, especially gui apps, even java [22:10:55] <FireflyST> apple's hardware got lame without PPC in it [22:11:04] <sparcdr> FireflyST, beats the hell out of ppc though [22:11:14] <sparcdr> they switched because POWER5 couldnt be crammed into a notebook [22:11:19] <sparcdr> that's their largest market [22:11:22] <e^ipi> sparcdr: does the open group certify GUI stuff in UNIX'03? [22:11:34] <sparcdr> didnt even know there was gui certification :P [22:11:43] <cmihai> sparcdr, that's bullshit mate, I bet Tadpole can fit one or two [22:11:44] <sparcdr> they use Cocoa/Objective-C and Carbon/C++ [22:11:47] <FireflyST> no, because they couldn't wait for IBM, which is now selling 5Ghz+ POWER6 CPUs [22:11:53] <sparcdr> tadpole isnt 5lbs [22:11:55] <cmihai> Sure, it will weigh 14 kilos [22:11:58] <cmihai> But that never stopped me :D [22:12:01] <sparcdr> IBM was in a different market buddy [22:12:07] <e^ipi> sparcdr: and you can link against Qt to get native aqua apps in C++ as well [22:12:14] <sparcdr> they were not honoring their pledge to deliver 3ghz power [22:12:15] <e^ipi> and Qt is fantastic [22:12:31] *** logic__ has joined #opensolaris [22:12:32] <sparcdr> sure is, but that's not fair to test on everything else when Qt is still different on osx [22:12:33] <_setuid_H> how about qt licence? [22:12:37] <cmihai> FireflyST, and again, I hear Intel has 80 core 50Ghz cpus in development :P [22:12:43] <sparcdr> _setuid_H, GPL if you're into it is free [22:13:00] <_setuid_H> qt is under gpl? [22:13:02] <sparcdr> fit a cell into a 1" notebook and make it 5lb, go for it [22:13:07] <sparcdr> _setuid_H, and commercial [22:13:10] <_setuid_H> ok [22:13:16] <sparcdr> but the whole app has to be gpl ;/ [22:13:23] <cmihai> _setuid_H, now they dual license like MysQL [22:13:28] <_setuid_H> ok [22:13:31] <sparcdr> which is why i utilize the service gap which the apsl plugs [22:13:31] <sparcdr> :P [22:13:41] <_setuid_H> thanks for the info [22:13:46] <FireflyST> aside from that, Apple's quality has gone down the shit tubes [22:13:47] <sparcdr> yep [22:13:51] <sparcdr> FireflyST, not here [22:13:52] <e^ipi> sparcdr: isn't APSL pretty much the same as the CDDL/MPL ? [22:13:56] <sparcdr> first gens sucked though [22:14:03] *** _setuid_H has left #opensolaris [22:14:22] <sparcdr> no e^ipi it's GPL but it forces webmasters and SOA apps to open up [22:14:25] <FireflyST> when I bought my iBook G3, the quality was good. When I got the G4, the fucking thing started falling apart. [22:14:33] <sparcdr> FireflyST, powerpc [22:14:40] <FireflyST> no [22:14:45] <FireflyST> the laptop quality was shit [22:14:47] <sparcdr> FireflyST, cant deny things change, you dont have experience with their intel notebooks [22:14:51] <sparcdr> yes they were, logic boards [22:14:54] <FireflyST> I don't care [22:14:55] <sparcdr> i had an ibook myself [22:15:02] <sparcdr> I dont like ASUS or Acer myself [22:15:06] <FireflyST> the case plastics were Dell qulaity [22:15:07] <sparcdr> so let's drop it [22:15:16] <sparcdr> that wasnt the high end [22:15:19] <sparcdr> I always go high end [22:15:25] <sparcdr> so you're not comparing fairly [22:15:37] <sparcdr> the macbooks are shit, they are ibooks with intels [22:15:41] *** _setuid_H has joined #opensolaris [22:15:42] <sparcdr> but if you're that cheap, go die [22:16:14] *** chris_d has left #opensolaris [22:16:18] <sparcdr> e^ipi, I meant attibution license or whatever not Apple Public Source License v2 [22:16:21] <_setuid_H> I need to extract solaris x86 miniroot from the instalation media is there any way to do it? [22:16:25] <sparcdr> APSL2 is CDDL basically [22:16:26] <_setuid_H> i gunziped it [22:16:34] <_setuid_H> but it wass stil file [22:16:35] <e^ipi> so I thought [22:16:41] <_setuid_H> but not tarball [22:16:56] <e^ipi> you had me worried there for a second, I had plans on porting apple's HFS+ driver whenever I've got time [22:16:59] <sparcdr> i use a java backend and a native front-end so i can use my preferred license [22:17:19] <cmihai> _setuid_H, use file(1) to figure out what to do. [22:17:26] <e^ipi> my ipod is mac formatted, and it annoys me that I can't hook it up to my main workstation [22:17:27] <_setuid_H> english text [22:17:28] <_setuid_H> i think [22:17:31] <sparcdr> if the front-end tookit requires gpl it's gpl, only qt requires this, if i used wxwidgets i can do what I want [22:17:42] <sparcdr> e^ipi, then reformat like it should be, all of them come vfat [22:17:56] <e^ipi> and then what would I do when I hook it in to my laptop? [22:17:59] <sparcdr> it works [22:18:10] <sparcdr> i had a 30gb video didnt use hfs+ [22:18:19] <e^ipi> itunes on mac will read off a fat-formatted ipod? [22:18:26] <sparcdr> even works with gtkpod and amaork [22:18:27] <sparcdr> duh [22:18:35] <sparcdr> they're using msdos/vfat bsd fs driver [22:18:40] <cmihai> Use Apples tools to format. [22:18:45] <sparcdr> no [22:18:54] <sparcdr> you need to use windows to make it windows again [22:18:57] <sparcdr> just "restore" it [22:19:15] <cmihai> sparcdr, that's what I meant. I didn't say MacOS [22:19:17] <sparcdr> using itunes on osx makes it hfs+ [22:19:25] <sparcdr> k [22:19:28] <cmihai> I meant don't use FORMAT from windows. [22:19:34] <sparcdr> haha [22:19:35] <sparcdr> xD [22:19:36] <e^ipi> fuck it, solaris needs more drivers anyways [22:19:41] <sparcdr> it'll still work if you restore it [22:19:45] <e^ipi> I'm just going to go with my original plan of porting HFS [22:19:46] <cmihai> Well, yeah. [22:19:47] <sparcdr> e^ipi, id use it, my nas uses hfs+ [22:19:56] <cmihai> That's the good part about iPod. [22:20:06] <sparcdr> haha :/ [22:20:06] <cmihai> You can fuck around all you want, restore fixes the problems. [22:20:08] <sparcdr> Zune ftl [22:20:31] * sparcdr smacks #opensolaris with a zune brick, i mean brown poo block, i mean wireless poo brick [22:20:31] <sparcdr> :P [22:20:40] <sparcdr> god i had worse experience with one of those [22:20:50] <cmihai> And trust me, I've tried it all. ipod Linux, rockbox, standalone games like Doom with Half Life mods... man, that was a waste of time ;-) [22:20:53] <sparcdr> my friend bought one and it bricked itself withing 2 weeks of owning it [22:21:00] <cmihai> sparcdr, yeah man, what's up with Zune? [22:21:05] <cmihai> I mean, it's brown ffs :-) [22:21:06] <sparcdr> cmihai, dumb dumb dumb @ linux + ipod [22:21:09] <sparcdr> useless [22:21:13] <sparcdr> it's a poo brick buddy [22:21:25] <sparcdr> *within [22:21:38] <bda> http://www.georgetownvoice.com/2007-09-20/news/democrats-debate-2008-election # Caption. [22:21:50] <sparcdr> that's like buying a telephone to run ls on ;/ [22:21:55] <cmihai> sparcdr, yeah, but you get a bootloader so you can pick. [22:22:03] * bda can run ls on his phone. [22:22:04] <sparcdr> cmihai, still a waste of space [22:22:07] <sparcdr> it's for music! [22:22:14] <cmihai> sparcdr, the only thing rockbox and ipod Linux have overApple firmware is .ogg and .flac support. [22:22:19] <sparcdr> bda, im sure you can, they have that [22:22:26] <sparcdr> cmihai, yeah I know [22:22:27] <bda> sparcdr: iPhone runs OS X, so. [22:22:35] <sparcdr> you lose convinence, support, etc [22:22:38] <sparcdr> so does iPod Touch [22:22:40] <cmihai> Being such a fanboi, I had all my music in .flac... [22:22:45] <cmihai> Some of it in .ogg [22:22:46] <sparcdr> lol [22:22:47] <cmihai> No .mp3 :-) [22:22:49] <sparcdr> flac wtf? [22:22:55] <cmihai> So.. when you have 300GB of flac.. [22:23:03] <cmihai> lossless format mate. [22:23:04] <e^ipi> I've never wasted my time with .ogg [22:23:06] <sparcdr> im fine with aac or ogg [22:23:18] <cmihai> FLAC - Free Lossless Audio Codec. Original quality. [22:23:19] <sparcdr> ogg is the least ubiquous format [22:23:22] <e^ipi> nothing I care to own plays it [22:23:30] <cmihai> .ogg rocks e^ipi. [22:23:42] <sparcdr> sparcdr rox self with dd [22:23:50] <cmihai> Quality is good, it's fast and it's getting to be quite popular for developers (see games and such) [22:24:10] *** nrubsig has joined #opensolaris [22:24:11] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig [22:24:23] <sparcdr> cmihai, good to know, ive kept track of it for a while now, and i just gave up even giving a sh*t about it :) [22:24:44] *** logic_ has quit IRC [22:24:52] <sparcdr> still, it's the tux virus/bug, beware! [22:25:20] <sparcdr> let us not get into a conversation about extremely limited devices and monolithic vs rtos kernels >_> [22:25:30] <_setuid_H> is mdconfig included in sx instalation? [22:25:46] <sparcdr> _setuid_H, mdconfig? isnt that a linux tool? [22:25:50] <_setuid_H> bsd [22:25:56] <sparcdr> ah right [22:26:04] <sparcdr> but this is solaris, it has support for raid and such [22:26:09] <sparcdr> it's not gonna be the same command [22:26:18] <_setuid_H> memory disk configuration [22:26:25] <sparcdr> oh [22:26:27] <_setuid_H> but i haven't it in the path [22:26:30] <sparcdr> im thinking of raid stuff [22:26:46] <sparcdr> cant tell you tbh [22:27:10] <cmihai> Hey, I had a complete boxed set of Beethoven (over 110 cds) and Bach (60+) [22:27:17] <sparcdr> gimme! [22:27:18] <cmihai> There was no way in hell I'd settle for .mp3 ;-) [22:27:23] <sparcdr> <3 classical [22:27:26] <cmihai> .flac all the way. [22:27:29] <cmihai> Dude... [22:27:36] <cmihai> It's 80GB of flac [22:27:40] <sparcdr> sheesh [22:27:46] *** _setuid_H has left #opensolaris [22:27:56] <sparcdr> sounds awesome cmihai [22:28:05] <cmihai> You can buy the boxed set, but it's quite expensive :-\ [22:28:42] <cmihai> Well, you can get a less complete collection (87 cds) for about 50$ [22:28:42] *** jcea has quit IRC [22:28:46] <cmihai> Check ebay :-] [22:28:55] <sparcdr> bah, the artists are dead [22:29:06] <cmihai> Well, there's torrents... [22:29:14] <sparcdr> ill go with cd [22:29:26] <sparcdr> i cant download to my heart's whim [22:29:39] <nenolod> Triskelios, it says i don't have a kernel [22:29:41] <cmihai> But unless you have OC-48 and lots of patience, it may take a while hehe [22:29:45] <nenolod> Triskelios, :) [22:30:00] <sparcdr> i have 500mb/day quota (+1500 12:00 AM - 3:00 AM) [22:30:04] <sparcdr> so, no thanks :) [22:30:28] <cmihai> Huh [22:30:29] <sparcdr> i know how to get it though [22:30:30] <cmihai> quota? [22:30:32] <sparcdr> yep [22:30:36] <cmihai> What are you on. wireless phone? [22:30:38] <sparcdr> not all isps are "unlimited" you know [22:30:42] <sparcdr> noyb, satellite [22:30:44] <sparcdr> *no [22:30:55] <cmihai> 500mb/..day? [22:31:00] <cmihai> That... sucks. [22:31:01] <sparcdr> yeah it's that shitty [22:31:10] <sparcdr> uncapped at 12-3am [22:31:13] <sfire||mouse> sparcdr: how much does that cost? [22:31:14] <sparcdr> er unmonitored [22:31:14] *** dunc has quit IRC [22:31:19] <sparcdr> too much sfire||mouse [22:31:48] <cmihai> Gee... [22:31:55] <sparcdr> 80 bucks, even with 1.6gb + 425mb actual daily it's around 60gb/mo [22:32:02] *** Fish has quit IRC [22:32:12] <sparcdr> which is only 2x more than Cingular HDSPA mobile broadband [22:32:14] <sfire||mouse> sparcdr: my grandmother lives out where the DSL craps out by noon because of the poor wiring, and the heat [22:32:17] <sparcdr> heck, my sprint evdo was unlimited [22:32:42] <sparcdr> sfire||mouse, market demand, logistical conditions here [22:32:51] <Triskelios> nenolod: 'xm create' does? [22:32:54] <sfire||mouse> sparcdr: I don't even know where to start looking [22:32:58] <sparcdr> sfire||mouse, a few years back at my old house the dsl did that [22:33:11] <sparcdr> sfire||mouse, unlimited satellite is 1000 USD / mo fyi [22:33:30] <noyb> for $9.95/month my isp allows 3TB download/month not that I'll ever need that. but sheesh. [22:33:32] <sfire||mouse> she's in an assisted living facility, so the wiring sucks, and they won't upgrade [22:33:33] <cmihai> Where are you from, sparcdr [22:33:34] <sparcdr> that's 4mbit with a special proxy to make it usable with SIP [22:33:45] <sparcdr> amazingly, im in california [22:33:48] <cmihai> Australia or somethig? [22:33:51] <nenolod> Triskelios, yeah [22:33:53] <sparcdr> isps have no incentive to upgrade [22:34:06] <sparcdr> even russians get more bandwidth than people on consumer satellite [22:34:08] <sfire||mouse> sparcdr: my grandmother is on the NV,AZ border [22:34:16] <sparcdr> im in san diego county [22:34:18] <sfire||mouse> What ISP do you use [22:34:20] <sparcdr> off of the highway [22:34:46] <sparcdr> I had wildblue, now hughesnet, the most expensive consumer non-business plans on both I had [22:34:49] <cmihai> Would pretty much suck to have such an ISP. I'd fill my daily quota in 10 minutes :-) [22:35:08] <sparcdr> they have no incentive to offer unlimited, it's impossible to provide, they have to use algorithms to share it [22:35:24] <sparcdr> my latency is 21x that of standard dsl and i get 57x less bandwidth at 1/2 the speed [22:35:33] <sparcdr> cmihai, more like 1 hour, but yeaj [22:35:36] <sparcdr> *yeah [22:35:54] <sparcdr> ive developed habits to curtail it [22:35:57] <sparcdr> i can deal with it [22:36:19] <sparcdr> plus i have unlimited for 3 hours, granted im not downloading more than 1500mb at once it gets done [22:36:36] <cmihai> sparcdr, no, more like 10 minutes :p [22:36:38] <sparcdr> during white man hours, tough luck [22:36:51] <sparcdr> nope cmihai, it's unmonitored at 12-3am [22:37:15] <cmihai> Well, you can develop a nice little script lol [22:37:16] <sparcdr> they have such vague policies, they use to reset the meter at 8 hours, they use a bucket system [22:38:14] <sparcdr> but now they changed it recently, as all consumer satellite isps do a lot to deal with demand, and as a result of being vague i dont use 425mb of bandwidth, even though with the old and maybe still partially in use policy it's 425mb/8hours [22:38:24] <sparcdr> they just punish users for exceeding it, by capping for 24 hours now [22:38:39] <sparcdr> as i said might really have around 1200mb/day [22:38:47] <sparcdr> but who knows, they are vague on purpose [22:39:20] <cmihai> Gee. On this matter, it's bliss here. [22:39:23] <sparcdr> pretty sure it's 425mb / 24 hours. PERIOD [22:39:27] <sparcdr> yeah butthole [22:39:37] <cmihai> And from what I hear, Japan and Corea is heaven. [22:39:41] <sparcdr> send me Solaris disks each month if you got that much spare [22:39:56] <sparcdr> Sweden has 40gbit links to a few test homes [22:39:57] *** _setuid_H has joined #opensolaris [22:40:00] <cmihai> Oh, right. New SXCE :P [22:40:05] <sparcdr> the US ISPS have no incentive [22:40:14] <sparcdr> especially my kind of ISP [22:40:15] <_setuid_H> is there any command which can show me all installed pkgs ? [22:40:15] <sparcdr> :/ [22:40:28] <_setuid_H> or any file [22:40:36] <sparcdr> cmihai, doubt you'd do that for me [22:40:39] <cmihai> pkginfo [22:40:48] <cmihai> shows all installed packages. [22:40:53] <_setuid_H> ok [22:40:56] <_setuid_H> i'll try [22:40:59] <cmihai> /var/log/sadm/contents - installed files from packages. [22:41:00] <Triskelios> nenolod: ah, http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=140016 [22:41:01] <cmihai> Go use grep. [22:41:27] <sparcdr> be a godsend to be able to keep current with OpenSolaris since I guess im now a regular, but i have to deal with major pain while you eat your cake and watch pron all day when I cant view one flash video, ever [22:41:34] <_setuid_H> cool [22:41:36] <_setuid_H> thanks [22:41:38] *** perlmonk has quit IRC [22:41:49] *** sommerfeld has joined #opensolaris [22:41:50] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o sommerfeld [22:42:19] <sparcdr> hence why im on SDX, I take advantage of media kits [22:42:40] *** _setuid_H has left #opensolaris [22:42:58] <cmihai> Hm.. can't you download the thing at work [22:43:09] <sparcdr> work? i work here [22:43:17] <sparcdr> jobs arent a plenty either in california [22:43:17] <cmihai> What? [22:43:28] <cmihai> You're a freelancer? [22:43:33] <sparcdr> yes [22:44:16] <cmihai> Well, better get yourself a job and (with?) a fat pipe hehe [22:44:31] <sparcdr> sorry, not easy unless you got a bachelors in bullshitting [22:44:39] *** trx has quit IRC [22:44:42] <sparcdr> i have a job [22:44:46] <sparcdr> but yeah not so good :/ [22:45:02] <sparcdr> fat pipe to me = pay someone to download and burn stuff for me [22:45:11] <cmihai> It's my experience that freelance doesn't really count. Not torwards work experience anyway. [22:45:25] <sparcdr> no that's my side job [22:45:32] <sparcdr> i dont do computers for my real job [22:45:49] <cmihai> So when they ask you about previous job experience and request references, they won't get the joke when you start talking about yourself :-) [22:45:58] <cmihai> sparcdr, you don't? Could have fooled me. [22:46:05] <sparcdr> i work for San Diego Imperial Council [22:46:07] <cmihai> So.. you're a freelance hitman? [22:46:13] <sparcdr> doing mundane cleanup for a large camp [22:46:29] <sparcdr> yeah, sure, just give me some money [22:46:37] *** mikefut has quit IRC [22:46:52] <cmihai> Boy Scouts of America?! [22:47:01] <cmihai> Erm.. so you're the janitor for the boy scouts? [22:47:07] <sparcdr> amazing, im into technology and am far above most people around here, yet no one hires me because of age bias [22:47:08] <sparcdr> yep cm [22:47:24] <cmihai> Call me crazy, but I think you could do better. [22:47:31] <sparcdr> not really [22:47:36] <sparcdr> which is why i have a sidejob [22:47:37] <e^ipi> age bias? [22:47:48] <sparcdr> yeah guess my age, go for it, comeon, I dare you. [22:47:59] <cmihai> What, are you like 16 or something [22:48:05] <sparcdr> no [22:48:11] <cmihai> 61? [22:48:15] <nrubsig> dmarker: ping! [22:48:22] <nrubsig> !seen dmarker [22:48:23] <sparcdr> i have 5 years of experience with UNIX, so 16 wouldnt be right [22:48:29] <FireflyST> hah [22:48:30] <nrubsig> Drone: ... [22:48:31] <sparcdr> nope im not greying [22:48:34] <FireflyST> I had almost that at 16 [22:48:40] <Triskelios> I had 3 years when I was 16... [22:48:42] <FireflyST> you lose [22:48:47] *** vmlemon has quit IRC [22:48:48] <sparcdr> i win dude [22:48:49] <cmihai> Let me see... [22:49:12] <FireflyST> you know what you learn when you get older? humility, and common sense [22:49:27] <sparcdr> of course FireflyST already have experience with that :) [22:49:46] <e^ipi> and how to pay for $100 in groceries using only small change [22:49:58] <sparcdr> eh nah im not dumb like that, yet. [22:50:19] <sparcdr> i dont pee in a bag or scratch my butt all day and move slower than a mammoth either [22:50:39] <cmihai> So how old are you again? [22:50:44] <sparcdr> im 19 [22:50:57] <FireflyST> I'm guessing he's too old to be behaving the way he's behaving, which is about 10 [22:51:00] <sparcdr> ive done some contract work already (Tech stuff) [22:51:19] <cmihai> Bah, you're old enough for a proper job. [22:51:32] <sparcdr> not without college in this state [22:51:40] <sparcdr> move to california, find a non-mcdonalds job [22:51:56] <sparcdr> and somehow pay for rent and taxes here plus insurance at my age [22:51:57] <sparcdr> sorry, no dice [22:52:08] <sparcdr> i handle it as best as i can [22:52:28] <sparcdr> im not moving up, so ill ne making changes soon, as most people my age do a lot [22:52:36] <sparcdr> just temporary [22:52:49] <nrubsig> dduvall: ping! [22:52:57] <FireflyST> I bet you're like 40 and still live at home [22:53:02] <sparcdr> blah you're attacking me. [22:53:06] <sparcdr> FireflyST, no im 19 [22:53:21] <cmihai> I'm attacking you? [22:53:22] * nrubsig grabs a voodoo puppet of dduvall and tortures it... [22:53:46] <cmihai> You Americans think everyone is attacking you... [22:53:48] <FireflyST> you know who's fun to pick on [22:53:50] <FireflyST> hobos [22:53:53] <dduvall> nrubsig: I can't talk now, but the short answer is, it'll take an arc case, and I'm not willing to file it, at least not now. Zsh is going to go back without that change, but if you want to do the work, you can probably change it later. [22:53:58] <nrubsig> cmihai: carefully, they have nukes... [22:54:03] <sparcdr> cmihai, more or less. you dont like how i run my life, fine. i manage to pay the bills and was able to get an Ultra-20, so I'll let you think what you want to think [22:54:08] <FireflyST> there is no better pastime than picking on hobos [22:54:09] <sparcdr> FireflyST, true dat [22:54:15] <FireflyST> stealing their bindlesacks [22:54:28] <FireflyST> and throwing them on the roof [22:54:32] <sparcdr> FireflyST, tad too far [22:54:36] <FireflyST> watching them fight over ham sandwiches [22:54:39] <sparcdr> I just ask them dumb questions [22:54:50] *** FelipeBare has quit IRC [22:54:52] <sparcdr> sommerfeld, how's life as a hobo? [22:54:53] <FireflyST> and then selling the recordings on DVD [22:54:54] *** Atomdrache has joined #opensolaris [22:54:57] <nrubsig> dduvall: erm... Ok (that was only the 2nd issue I wanted to discuss but I guess the other stuff can wait, too) [22:55:18] <e^ipi> you know what's fun? working in retail & making fun of peoples' resumes [22:55:23] <sparcdr> "Well I got a hand sandwidth by begging and am on my second 40" [22:55:41] <e^ipi> I didn't know just how hilariously bad peoples' resumes can get before I was in charge of sifting through them one time [22:55:45] <sparcdr> e^ipi, not fun to the person applying, although they should learn to copy a resume template and not be honest [22:55:48] <sommerfeld> sparcdr: uh, what? [22:56:01] <dduvall> nrubsig: send me mail on the other bit. [22:56:04] <sparcdr> sommerfeld, nevermind [22:56:05] <nrubsig> dduvall: ok [22:56:21] <sparcdr> stupid questions asked to a hobo = funny but dumb responses [22:57:03] <cmihai> stupid questions asked to hobo = knife stuck where eye used to be [22:57:12] <sparcdr> cmihai, probably [22:57:26] <sparcdr> you guys don't seem to like me for some reason, although I'm here to help people and learn, as is a lot of the users. [22:57:46] <cmihai> sparcdr, you're a pretty bad judge of character. [22:58:09] <cmihai> Or haven't been here long. Or both. [22:58:15] <sparcdr> cmihai, maybe I am. I feel a vibe of dissatisfaction toward me. [22:58:26] <sparcdr> probably haven't been here long enough [22:58:30] <cmihai> I hate it when people get all defensive for no reason. [22:58:31] *** GoodKarma has joined #OpenSolaris [22:59:16] <e^ipi> sparcdr: first they should learn proper english grammar and spelling [22:59:19] <sparcdr> you judged my character by where I work [22:59:30] <sparcdr> e^ipi, who's they? [22:59:30] <cmihai> I do? [22:59:54] <sparcdr> "You can do better than that" - more positive than not. Nonetheless it's just how it is, I manage. [23:00:06] <e^ipi> sparcdr: job applicants that can't seem to spell "business" [23:00:22] <sparcdr> er e^ipi sounds like a lot of people down here [23:00:31] <e^ipi> and that have "gain experience in the work industry" as a goal [23:00:39] <sparcdr> o.o [23:00:50] <sparcdr> my goal is to get money, you give :P [23:00:51] <e^ipi> true story, some retarded girl handed that in the other day [23:01:03] <bda> "get phat dings in IT kek" [23:01:51] <victori> mysql server on sxce does not come with smf scripts? [23:01:52] <sparcdr> bda, say what? [23:02:05] <e^ipi> or some guy dressed like tupak shakur handing in a folded up resume ... that one was entertaining [23:02:14] <victori> ugh it is 4.x nevermind would not use it any how [23:02:17] <e^ipi> I just trashcanned it in front of him... [23:02:31] <sparcdr> Work Experience - I did stuff at this place over in the mall, totally [23:02:31] <sparcdr> >_> [23:02:51] <cmihai> victori no, use the MySQL in CoolStack [23:03:08] <victori> I avoid coolstack like the plague, it is like half broken. [23:03:10] <cmihai> victori http://unixsadm.blogspot.com/2007/08/installing-coolstack-on-solaris-and.html - Install MySQL from CoolStack and create the SMF manifests [23:03:13] <sparcdr> cmihai, have you compared the performance between coolstack and vanilla AMPS? [23:03:24] <cmihai> Yeah, it's pretty similar. [23:03:34] <cmihai> Perl is faster though [23:03:42] <sparcdr> victori: I've gotten it working, well everything but Tomcat, since I use Glassfish [23:03:44] <victori> perl is majorly broken in cookstack on x86 [23:03:50] <victori> err coolstack* [23:04:03] <sparcdr> then use ActiveState ActivePerl or Sun's? [23:04:07] <cmihai> Anyway victori, the same thing applies for MySQL from blastwaver or whatever. [23:04:16] <cmihai> Just read that and make your own manifest. [23:04:28] <victori> sparcdr: you notice any degradation in performance going from tomcat to the heavier glassfish? [23:04:29] <sparcdr> cmihai, I haven't had problems with blastwave, but I don't use blastwave for AMP stuff [23:04:43] <sparcdr> victori: besides memory consumption no [23:04:55] <victori> sparcdr: worth the switch or much of the same? [23:05:30] <cmihai> Worth it. Glassfish rocks ;-) [23:05:40] <cmihai> Hm... my hand went numb [23:05:48] <cmihai> RSI ;-\ [23:05:52] <victori> I am having a hard time justifying the ram increase with glassfish [23:05:53] <sparcdr> em... better supported imho, faster, better for multithreaded boxes and scaling. up to you [23:06:01] <cmihai> Laptops can be such a pain ;-(. [23:06:08] <victori> since my j2ee apps are pretty much hibernate/spring, no need for the ejb stuff [23:06:11] *** jcea has joined #opensolaris [23:06:14] <sparcdr> cmihai, im on one, but im using an external das keyboard [23:06:19] <cmihai> victori just call it "the reference platform" hehe [23:06:33] <CIA-25> semery: 6231080 Solaris Kerberos needs a cmdline utility to auto-configure a master/slave KDC (fix build) [23:06:39] <sparcdr> victori: performance is better all-around minus ram increase, it's not that much really [23:06:43] <victori> ya I am in a split between ; resin,tomcat,guirranimo(typo?), and glassfish [23:06:47] <cmihai> sparcdr, just typing in bed in a very unconfortable position, and I'm too lazy to do anything about it. [23:06:53] <sparcdr> cmihai, :( [23:07:18] <cmihai> I think I'll just go to sleep, I can't feel my fingers lol ;-) [23:07:39] <sparcdr> victori: I do JDBC backend work with XML-RPC publishing (SOAP) [23:07:51] <sparcdr> works excellent [23:08:10] <sparcdr> cmihai, up to you :) [23:08:11] <cmihai> See ya [23:08:14] <victori> shoot can figure out the equivlent in solaris for ps aux [23:08:15] <sparcdr> bai [23:08:19] <sparcdr> ps -ef [23:08:20] <victori> ps -Ael [23:08:21] <cmihai> ps -ef victori [23:08:28] <wesolows> ps + pargs [23:08:29] <e^ipi> man ps [23:08:30] <cmihai> Or ps -aux if you use /usr/ucb ps [23:08:33] <cmihai> But don't [23:08:37] <victori> ya was reading the man page [23:08:37] <sparcdr> cmihai, go to work! er bed ... [23:08:48] <e^ipi> read it harder [23:09:05] <e^ipi> ;) [23:09:07] <sparcdr> victori: applies to any true unix system, take my IRIX box for instance. it's not a big deal :) [23:09:11] *** hspaans has joined #opensolaris [23:09:14] <cmihai> victori read this: http://bhami.com/rosetta.html (UNIX - Linux - BSD - whatever command "translator") [23:09:25] <hspaans> g'day to all [23:09:29] <sparcdr> or read the manpages and become a man [23:09:35] <wesolows> sparcdr: that's showing some bias; BSD is true Unix but uses the aux syntax. You mean "any SysV derived Unix" [23:09:43] <victori> ya tomcat = 30megs RSS vs glassfish's 100 RSS [23:09:46] <sparcdr> right we [23:09:46] <bda> pargs++ [23:09:47] *** cmihai has quit IRC [23:09:57] <sparcdr> *wesolows [23:10:05] <victori> cmihai thanks for the link [23:10:06] <trygvis> A/UX .. hm [23:10:09] <sparcdr> victori: multithreaded work? [23:10:12] *** TheBonsai has left #opensolaris [23:10:27] <victori> sparcdr: dualproc systems, multithreaded? I suppose since they are web apps [23:10:32] <victori> with concurrent users [23:10:55] <sparcdr> BSD is not true UNIX. It's not certified and no trademark/intellectual stuff remains after 4.4BSD [23:11:26] <sparcdr> victori: try glassfish out, put some load on each application server and see how much they increase with load, and how well they handle it [23:11:29] <victori> ya time to place ucb infront of my path [23:11:30] <wesolows> It may not meet the legal requirement to call itself Unix, but it came from the original Unix. [23:11:32] *** BadKarma has quit IRC [23:11:33] <victori> bsd ps++ [23:11:33] *** GoodKarma is now known as BadKarma [23:11:39] <sparcdr> wesolows, yeah [23:11:40] <victori> sparcdr: I have [23:11:43] <wesolows> Trademarks reflect business relationships, not technical reality. [23:11:44] <victori> just now [23:11:48] <hspaans> does anyone knows how recent AMD events of opening hardware specs is going to effect OpenSolaris? [23:12:04] <wesolows> Can only help, no? :-) [23:12:05] <sparcdr> victori: scaling? try 100 user workload on it? [23:12:20] <victori> did an ab -n 1000 -c 100 type microbenchmark against an application here at work. Raw requests were not up to par [23:12:30] <alanc> we'll probably finally get drivers for the R500 and R600 series graphics within the year [23:12:41] <alanc> err, within *a* year, not necessarily in 2007 [23:12:49] <victori> of course this is all kinda bs, since it was not even against a page that did db work, just against a simple view page [23:13:10] <hspaans> that would mean amd690g is going to be support and so on [23:13:14] <alanc> the drivers as they are today are in a very early form, but run on Nevada [23:13:34] <alanc> maybe - I don't know what an amd690g is [23:14:10] <hspaans> amd690g is chipset like ich5/6/7, graphics, sound, sata etc [23:14:13] <sparcdr> obviously I meant to actually test it, with some hibernate stuff and throw in some badly coded jdbc code for good measure. might be a benchmark for j2ee out there [23:14:53] <e^ipi> hspaans: what's that got to do with the ATI graphics drivers? [23:14:57] <sparcdr> alanc: that's good because ATI just pisses me off so far after years of headcache (Yep, cached memories of hate) [23:15:22] <sparcdr> AMD owns ATI, as e^ipi said, nothing in relation [23:15:55] <hspaans> e^ipi: maybe since most of those boards do have an ati gpu on them [23:16:03] <sparcdr> they should release pre-9000 series specs too [23:16:35] <e^ipi> modern corporations are so big they can't tell their arse from their elbow... the decision to open the ATI graphics drivers will have little to no effect on the sound/sata/whatever drivers [23:16:43] <sparcdr> 7500 is painful, shoot me for using it, but Solaris' has less than 1/2 the framerate of Linux DRI, not even good enough to run video on without some tricks [23:19:30] <alanc> if they can still find the pre-9000 series specs [23:22:35] <sparcdr> alanc: they have them buried, and they wont come unburied [23:23:00] <sparcdr> so i get to use this T30 as kindling [23:23:03] <alanc> I know how hard it is to find docs on ancient stuff here at Sun [23:23:33] <sparcdr> I'm sure it is, I don't doubt that. Doesn't change the fact that Solaris' performance is less than 1/2 of probably 1/2 of what the commercial drivers provided [23:23:35] <hspaans> like NIS+ ;-) [23:24:11] <sparcdr> 167 FPS is like squishing chicken through a funnel [23:24:24] <sparcdr> this notebook gets 5500 FPS :/ [23:25:00] <sparcdr> decent DRI support, enough that it wont peg the CPU when playing a video would be nice [23:25:19] <sparcdr> not exactly your job to work on crusty hardware. so I don't expect you to alanc [23:25:50] <sparcdr> although somewhat older SPARC systems use the same chip [23:26:30] <sparcdr> non-issue once my ultra-20 gets here [23:26:34] <alanc> but it is unfortunately part of my job to figure out which bits of the code we've been shipping for 15+ years we can and can't open source, and that takes a bit of historical research [23:26:54] <sparcdr> alanc:( licensing stifles progress [23:27:27] <sparcdr> i dont care open-source or not on this brick, having it not peg the cpu would be such a feat. [23:27:30] <nrubsig> alanc: Did my dtrace bugs appear in the meantime somewhere ? [23:27:38] *** eboutilier has joined #opensolaris [23:27:59] <sparcdr> anyways alanc, I appreciate you contributions. Thank you for your work on Xorg nonetheless. [23:28:01] <alanc> nrubsig: not that I've seen [23:28:14] *** NikolaVeber has quit IRC [23:28:25] * nrubsig curses bugs.opensolaris.org and casus the Maugurgha spell upon the authors of Jive and BOO... [23:28:31] <nrubsig> s/casus/casts/ [23:28:44] <nrubsig> and another joke ruined... by typos! [23:28:52] <sparcdr> boom jiggy jiggy jivve :) [23:29:04] <e^ipi> it was ruined well before you typed it [23:29:23] <nrubsig> sparcdr: How's the crack quality in your town today ? [23:29:32] <sparcdr> nrubsig, sub-par [23:29:38] <nrubsig> I see. [23:29:50] <sparcdr> oh great, e^ipi's ruined the mood again [23:29:55] <sparcdr> you're good at that, you know :p [23:30:00] <eboutilier> @ opensolaris list owners: We're rolling out spamassassin (spamd) "scoring" in message headers [23:30:12] <wesolows> very cool [23:30:14] <eboutilier> Let me know if you want to help test it [23:30:18] <nrubsig> eboutilier: thanks! :-) [23:30:20] *** RIT_Rawn027 has joined #opensolaris [23:30:23] <eboutilier> :) [23:30:35] <wesolows> spamassassin is a great friend [23:30:45] <eboutilier> We're taking a passive approach, at first anyway... [23:30:57] <sparcdr> so is my trusty uh... mmm. yeah. i cant trust anything, paranoid. [23:30:58] <wesolows> I'm happy to help test it [23:31:03] <eboutilier> Quite a nice piece of code, from what i can tell [23:31:19] *** hohum has joined #OpenSolaris [23:31:29] <sparcdr> i'd be happy to waste time too [23:31:42] <sparcdr> but I can't until later gotta go [23:31:51] *** RIT_Rawn027 has quit IRC [23:32:22] <nrubsig> eboutilier: Will spam assasin come before or after the jive injection ? [23:32:30] <eboutilier> wesolows: Cool, basically you can now moderate rather than discard/reject non-subscriber posts [23:32:31] *** [RIT]Rawn027 has joined #opensolaris [23:32:39] <sparcdr> I'd like to extend my appreciation for all opensolaris developers here. (this includes you alanc) [23:32:40] <sparcdr> have a nice day! [23:32:52] <eboutilier> And discard messages where this appears in the header: [23:33:06] <eboutilier> X-Spam-Flag: YES [23:33:19] <eboutilier> Which is done via the privacy/spam filters menu [23:33:34] *** glagasse has quit IRC [23:33:35] <wesolows> that, and/or use the X-Spam-Score: ********* thing as well, if I want per-list spam levels [23:33:38] *** dwc- has quit IRC [23:33:39] <wesolows> ok, cool [23:33:41] * wesolows looks [23:33:43] <eboutilier> Yes, you can do that too. [23:33:45] <alanc> can we teach spamassassin to junk "GPL vs. CDDL" flame wars as spam? [23:33:49] <sparcdr> cool, that's great [23:33:58] <eboutilier> The spam-flag is set to yes for anything scoring 10 and over. [23:34:00] <wesolows> alanc: YES! That would be the bayesian plugin [23:34:06] <sparcdr> alanc: moreover anything vs GPL [23:34:29] <eboutilier> I don't have the bayes plugin (learning thing) turned on yet. [23:34:32] <theRealballchalk> what's the syntax to grep for a string recursively through a filesystem? [23:34:40] <eboutilier> Going very slow, and incrementally. [23:34:47] <delewis> theRealballchalk: find / -print | xargs grep <string> [23:34:51] <wesolows> eboutilier: I'm not sure you can, usefully - it requires some feedback mechanism we probably don't have. [23:34:57] <eboutilier> Ah. [23:35:00] *** sparcdr has quit IRC [23:35:12] <theRealballchalk> delewis: thank you [23:35:22] <eboutilier> Any thoughts on setting 10 as the high-water mark? [23:35:27] <eboutilier> SA's default is 5. [23:35:28] *** [RIT]Rawn027 has quit IRC [23:35:43] *** [RIT]Rawn027 has joined #opensolaris [23:36:00] <eboutilier> Of course nothing is done with messages that score > 10, except that X-Spam-Flag header is inserted [23:36:37] <eboutilier> I shouldn't say "of course" because of course we could, in the future, summarily /dev/null them w/out even handing over to mailman [23:37:17] <wesolows> Yes [23:37:29] <wesolows> I found that 15 was the level at which I felt comfortable doing that, though [23:37:39] <eboutilier> The configuration options and granularity of a spamd/postfix combo are numerous to say the least [23:37:41] <wesolows> it may take us some time to get a feel for the exact thresholds that make sense [23:38:37] <eboutilier> wesolows: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. That's where the granularity and control is really nice... [23:39:28] <eboutilier> nrubsig: what do you mean jive injection? [23:39:36] <wesolows> Yes, there are lots of options here. I've set up tools-compilers to use spamassassin. [23:39:49] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris [23:39:56] <wesolows> I'll let you know how it goes; that list doesn't really have a lot of traffic but tools-gcc did get a good deal of spam in the past. [23:40:39] *** FBdev has quit IRC [23:40:46] <wesolows> I wonder if we have a guide for mailing list owners. Seems a lot of people would find this useful. Or maybe everyone else was already doing this stuff and I'm just late to the party. [23:40:56] <eboutilier> wesolows: You set the spam filter rule for tools-compilers? [23:41:09] <wesolows> yes [23:41:22] <wesolows> and changed the nonmember post option to Hold [23:41:24] <nrubsig> eboutilier: the point where the jive messages are injected in the mailman list. Somehow they bypass all moderation attempts... ;-( [23:41:38] <eboutilier> Did you filter on \*\*, etc. or X-Spam-Flag? [23:42:33] <eboutilier> nrubsig: Hm, yes, messages posted via jive bypass subscriber, non-subscriber checking. [23:42:46] <eboutilier> But they won't bypass spamassassin, so... [23:44:32] *** nrubsig is now known as feng_li [23:44:36] <wesolows> Spam-Flag [23:44:43] <eboutilier> If the list admin defines spam_filter_rule as described above, they should get caught. [23:44:48] <feng_li> eboutilier: buy my shoes, addidas, puma, bunbuan, by shoes! [23:44:55] <feng_li> eboutilier: buy my shoes! [23:45:00] <wesolows> That seems simpler for now; since I'm having discards sent to me, I'll be able to watch for false positives [23:45:07] <feng_li> eboutilier: will you buy by shoes ? [23:45:16] *** feng_li was kicked by wesolows (die spammer) [23:45:29] *** nrubsig has joined #opensolaris [23:45:39] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig [23:45:47] <richlowe> So, observationally it seems that yeah, anything going through jive hits the lists. [23:46:04] <richlowe> at least, I can't believe any sane system wouldn't catch some of this, or that any sane moderator would let it through. [23:46:09] <wesolows> did feng li post via jive or mail? [23:46:09] <coffman> nrubsig: you sell shoes? [23:46:15] <richlowe> that makes two large assumptions, however. [23:46:21] <nrubsig> coffman: feng_li does [23:46:24] <nrubsig> !seen feng_li [23:46:31] <nrubsig> !seen feng_li [23:46:34] <wesolows> richlowe: no one let feng li through, for sure. it was either inadequate filtering or the filters were bypassed somehow [23:46:38] <nrubsig> Drone: ... [23:46:45] <eboutilier> wesolows: I hope that "send me discards" setting also means messages discarded by the spam filter [23:47:03] <eboutilier> and not just the ones discarded because they were a non-subscriber [23:47:07] <wesolows> eboutilier: I assume so, since Accept/Hold/Reject/Discard is an option that appears in a number of filtering options. [23:47:08] <richlowe> wesolows: jive, it looks like. [23:47:34] <richlowe> wesolows: I cut the obnoxious 'this message posted from' stuff out of my mail, but the first Received is app1->m.o.o [23:47:39] <wesolows> But I don't really know [23:47:54] <richlowe> Yeah, jive. [23:47:57] <richlowe> or a competent fake of same. [23:48:02] *** SirFunk has quit IRC [23:48:04] <wesolows> richlowe: Sigh. Well, if spamassassin doesn't put a stop to it, I'd find myself in the No_Jive camp. [23:48:19] <wesolows> The S/N from Jive is not much above 0. [23:48:24] <eboutilier> richlowe: Your 1st observation isn't an assumption, I know it to be true. [23:48:26] *** SirFunk has joined #opensolaris [23:52:47] *** FBdev has joined #opensolaris [23:55:57] *** [RIT]Rawn027 has quit IRC