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[00:01:55] <jmcp> how about you run it
[00:03:38] <hile_> I don't know how many times I ran into issues with "shit, what was the MAC address of that machine?" (generally when  poking holes in security-through-obscurity MAC locking)... ping hostname; arp hostname
[00:04:20] <wesolows> my answer was incomplete; my apologies
[00:04:23] <wesolows> arp(1M)
[00:05:03] <g4lt-sb100> infidel, do you often question free help?
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[00:22:33] <sommerfeld> tiger11: in short, no, unless you disabled the intent log
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[00:28:13] <networkdump> exi
[00:28:14] <networkdump> t
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[01:00:26] <CIA-25> daemon@elpaso: Added tag onnv_74 for changeset 988308a14072
[01:00:31] <CIA-25> johnlev: PSARC 2006/260 Solaris on Xen, PSARC 2007/155 IPv4 Network Configuration Enhancements for Xen Guest Domains, 6424124 panic in intr_thread->av_dispatch_autovect->atomic_add_ptr, 6496858 mdb could use a memory-based IO backend, 6515319 workaround for 6491065 needs to be removed from elfextract.c, 6518807 snv_nightly: SUNWcakr pkgck error, 6551858 PSARC 2006/260 Solaris on Xen, 6584697 Can't boot Xen / Solaris dom0 if root is using ZFS, 6593429 us
[01:01:35] <jmcp> w0000t!
[01:01:46] <jbk> \o/
[01:01:47] <dlg> ?
[01:03:19] <jmcp> dlg: Sun's implementation of Xen (called xVM) has just been putback
[01:04:00] <palowoda> So what build 74?
[01:04:14] <jmcp> 75
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[01:07:55] <alanc> the flag day notice for it is listed on http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/71-75/ but the link doesn't work yet
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[01:08:09] <richlowe> alanc: it may need a kick
[01:08:18] <richlowe> alanc: sometimes the whole thing works, sometimes it doesn't work at all.
[01:08:45] <cmihai> Anyone tried Oracle 11g yet? :-)
[01:08:59] <alanc> I have to run now, so someone else will have to kick the gatekeepers about it
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[01:09:19] <richlowe> I don't actually care enough to.
[01:09:20] <richlowe> someone who cares can do it.
[01:09:47] <delewis> cmihai: not yet. It's only been released for Linux thus far.
[01:10:09] <cmihai> Yeah
[01:10:10] <delewis> the "What's New" list of features of 11g doesn't look all that exciting, either.
[01:10:19] <cmihai> So far, you're right.
[01:10:27] <delewis> there are a few cool things, don't get me wrong.
[01:11:03] <delewis> they seem to be emphasizing DTrace-like principles, analogous to "do tuning on your production Oracle server"
[01:12:05] <cmihai> There's some crypto stuff that's OK
[01:13:57] <cmihai> They even got a "secure by default" deal
[01:14:11] <cmihai> Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't OpenBSD coin that phrase?
[01:14:21] <delewis> probably.
[01:14:31] <delewis> Oracle does need to do something about security, though.
[01:14:37] <cmihai> Well, that's what they call it too... just like Solaris heh
[01:14:48] <delewis> there are several particular nasty security vulnerabilities that have been found lately.
[01:14:55] <cmihai> delewis, well, there seem to be quite a few changes in terms of security and crypto
[01:14:59] <cmihai> And about damn time too...
[01:14:59] <delewis> one allows any database user to gain SYSDBA privileges.
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[01:15:09] <cmihai> Yeah, I've seen the patch clusters...
[01:15:10] <delewis> the other allows you to grab arbitrary files through Enterprise Manager *cough* datafiles *cough*
[01:15:16] <cmihai> stuff like 120+ exploits...
[01:15:30] <delewis> in that case, 11g might be worthwhile.
[01:15:48] <delewis> but I don't forsee a lot of shops deploying it anytime soon, given most have *just* upgraded from 8i or 9i.
[01:15:51] <cmihai> Yeah, they got all that audit and security stuff on by default now.
[01:16:10] <cmihai> delewis, yeah, it's hard to make people even jump to 10g
[01:16:24] <cmihai> I've actually had to downgrade ;-\
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[01:19:08] <cmihai> http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/B28359_01/network.111/b28531/whatsnew.htm#sthref10 - it's actually pretty big (and makes you wonder what the hell took them so long)
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[01:21:00] <cmihai> Looks like they use JDK 5 too :-)
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[01:28:51] <binarycrusader> anyone around that can review a webrev? http://cr.opensolaris.org/~swalker/4754400/
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[01:48:07] * lloy0076 sigh
[01:48:18] <lloy0076> Welcome to SXCE where Ctrl + Backspace throws X out :P
[01:48:42] <binarycrusader> i did that the other day accidentally :}
[01:48:53] <binarycrusader> but, isn't it ctrl+alt+backspace?
[01:48:59] <binarycrusader> if not, I stand corrected :}
[01:49:08] <wesolows> I've never had the C-BS problem; C-A-BS works fine for me (which is the right combo)
[01:49:08] <lloy0076> binarycrusader: It's supposed to be that
[01:49:29] <lloy0076> However, if I have caps lock on, it decides that ctrl+backspace is enough
[01:49:31] <lloy0076> @#@$@$#$#@$#@@$#$@
[01:49:57] <wesolows> why do you even have a caps lock key?
[01:50:00] <lloy0076> It's actually unbelievably annoying.
[01:50:03] <lloy0076> errrk
[01:50:06] <lloy0076> I meant numlock
[01:50:21] <wesolows> oh, then why not just remove that modifier bit from numlock?
[01:50:52] <lloy0076> Let's compare this to cars.
[01:51:04] <richlowe> wesolows: I think the issue exists below there, but alanc would be the one to ask.
[01:51:05] <lloy0076> Why should I have to understand what the sixteenth bolt in the engine actually does?
[01:51:08] <richlowe> from memory, it's fixed in snv_72
[01:51:09] <wesolows> let's not; I understand that it's a bug
[01:51:13] <lloy0076> It exists before :P
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[01:51:27] <wesolows> I'm offering you reasons to stop thinking of it as the end of the universe
[01:51:28] <lloy0076> It's just annoying more than anything.
[01:51:31] <cmihai_> That sucked
[01:51:41] <wesolows> well, my X session dying periodically would be more than just annoying
[01:51:58] <wesolows> but there's always DontZap
[01:51:59] <cmihai_> Oracle install killed machine ;-(
[01:52:15] <wesolows> cmihai_'s endless litany of pain continues unabated
[01:52:17] <lloy0076> cmihai_: Hah! See, you shouldn't trust the Oracle!!
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[01:52:39] <mihaic> DIE!
[01:52:41] *** mihaic is now known as cmihai
[01:52:48] <cmihai> Well, that was a waste of time.
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[02:16:29] <nrubsig> brendang: ping!
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[02:21:07] <brendang> nrubsig: 64 bytes from brendan (sun): icmp_seq=0. time=312 s.
[02:27:16] <axisys> anyone seen this error before? sshd[1002]: [ID 800047 auth.crit] fatal: buffer_get: trying to get more bytes 129 than in buffer 70
[02:27:33] <axisys> everytime I try to ssh as root with rsa key I get that error
[02:28:18] <axisys> fixed.. duh!
[02:28:25] <axisys> the key was broken
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[02:35:39] <nrubsig> wesolows: ping!
[02:35:59] <nrubsig> wesolows: could you take a quick look at the bugster triage queue, please ?
[02:36:47] <wesolows> I could, if I knew what I were looking for
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[02:37:27] <jmcp> nrubsig: did you add "komodo" as a keyword to your bug?
[02:37:52] <nrubsig> jmcp: no.
[02:38:11] <jmcp> no way to find it then
[02:38:17] <nrubsig> wesolows: "dtrace hangs system" and "dtrace ksh script updare"
[02:38:24] <wesolows> the last bug you filed appears to have been before the 14th
[02:38:30] <wesolows> ok, looking
[02:39:03] <wesolows> not found
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[02:39:20] <wesolows> there are only 8 bugs in the queue, none like either of those
[02:39:21] <e^ipi> nrubsig: how about adding "ksh makes dtlogin cry"
[02:39:48] <nrubsig> groan
[02:40:18] <richlowe> nrubsig: So.
[02:40:27] <wesolows> there are 55 bugs matching nrubsig
[02:40:30] <richlowe> I filed a bug on friday or saturday that nobody could until, seemingly, yesterday morning.
[02:40:43] <richlowe> so it's possible there's a whole lot of latency involved right now.
[02:40:53] <richlowe> either that, or bbm barfed, and linda had to push it through again.
[02:40:59] <wesolows> none of the recent ones look like those either
[02:41:29] <wesolows> the most recent bug matching that name has a filed date of 6 Sept.
[02:41:45] <wesolows> did you file it as someone else?
[02:41:56] <wesolows> if not, richlowe's theory seems reasonable
[02:42:16] <richlowe> wesolows: b.o.o sometimes eat's Roland's bugs inexplicably, too.
[02:42:39] <richlowe> wesolows: the current theory (kinda), is that it's possible sun's corp spam filter is between b.o.o and the mail submission.
[02:42:44] <wesolows> *shrug*
[02:42:49] <richlowe> Yeah.
[02:43:04] <richlowe> I'd rather see folks work on gutting it and replacing it than trying to fix the damn thing.
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[02:45:43] <bda> Replace it with Cloudmark. ;)
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[02:59:39] <mritun_> dtrace hangs system ??
[02:59:45] <mritun_> wtf
[03:00:16] <CIA-25> johnlev: 6584697 Can't boot Xen / Solaris dom0 if root is using ZFS (fix cstyle)
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[03:01:04] <solbuddy> bug time
[03:01:09] <solbuddy> I found a big bug in solaris 10 8/07
[03:01:15] <solbuddy> on x86 systems.
[03:01:16] <unixware> where?
[03:01:25] <unixware> is an 0day?
[03:01:26] <jmcp> solbuddy: details
[03:01:44] <solbuddy> the nvidia drivers for the quatro card crash the system if you are using any other nvidia card besides the quatros.
[03:01:45] <richlowe> file a bug, bugs.opensolaris.org
[03:01:56] <solbuddy> on x86 systems.
[03:02:04] <richlowe> though I thought the nvidia-provided driver was intended to only support the quatros
[03:02:21] <solbuddy> the nvidia quatro drivers are selected if you do the complete install.
[03:02:30] <networkdump> is anyone confortable with xVM?
[03:02:46] <Chipdancer> networkdump: I'm uncomfortable with it :)
[03:02:57] <solbuddy> so anyone who does a "full" install on an x86 system with any type of nvidia card will get a nice surprise after cd 1.
[03:02:58] <wesolows> how could we be?  it just went back
[03:03:06] <e^ipi> if it's a security bug, I advise you to file it at fulldisclosure at lists dot grok.org.uk firsnt
[03:03:07] <Chipdancer> networkdump: your best bet is to try irc.oftc.net #solaris-xen
[03:03:08] <wesolows> the people who did the work are either sleeping or drinking
[03:03:09] <e^ipi> *first
[03:03:38] <solbuddy> its not a security bug, its a "your system won't boot up" bug.
[03:03:49] <dlg> denial of service
[03:03:50] <unixware> :P
[03:03:57] <e^ipi> just saying...
[03:03:57] <richlowe> wesolows: the bits were available before then, however.
[03:04:03] <networkdump> the problem is that I'm not sure it's a xen bug :), but it's surely related to opensolaris
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[03:04:24] <e^ipi> security bugs get patched quicker when you file them at fulldisclosure rather than through the b.o.o black hole
[03:04:31] <Chipdancer> networkdump: what's your problem?  I gather you're using snv66+xen drop?
[03:04:32] <wesolows> ahh, xen...now we get the "it doesn't work in xen; whose bug is it?" finger pointing dance
[03:04:47] <networkdump> yes
[03:04:50] <networkdump> well, to make it fast
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[03:05:04] <networkdump> i can ping the server, but cannot reach it via tcp/udp
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[03:05:25] <networkdump> and it cannot reach the outside via tcp/udp neither, but can still ping
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[03:05:38] <Chipdancer> by 'server' can I assume you mean domU/guest?
[03:05:42] <networkdump> yes, sorry
[03:05:57] * mritun_ has seen it once !!
[03:06:02] <Chipdancer> what can you do from the console?
[03:06:07] <networkdump> ping
[03:06:08] <networkdump> that's all
[03:06:11] <Chipdancer> (domU console)
[03:06:14] <mritun_> by any chance it's a broadcom card ?
[03:06:19] <networkdump> hum
[03:06:35] <networkdump> Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5721 Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express (rev 11)
[03:06:38] <networkdump> x2100
[03:06:41] <networkdump> server
[03:06:45] <Chipdancer> mritun_: well spotted ;)
[03:06:54] <networkdump> dom0 is linux btw
[03:07:05] <mritun_> I don't have the same I have 10/100 in my laptop
[03:07:18] <networkdump> but you're facing similar problem?
[03:07:21] <mritun_> but I had the same problem with b60 or so
[03:07:26] <mritun_> not anymore
[03:07:34] <mritun_> turns out the bundled driver is broken
[03:07:38] <networkdump> it's weird, because other linux domU have no problem
[03:07:55] <mritun_> the bfe driver works
[03:08:10] <mritun_> (some the other japanese? drivers page)
[03:08:21] <networkdump> domU solaris have xnf0
[03:08:52] <mritun_> no idea about that one... but in my case the bundled one definitely didn't work
[03:09:09] <networkdump> did you see the traffic with tcpdump/snoop?
[03:09:35] <mritun_> also I had problem when I used the same build in vmware... the vmware vmxnet driver is broken too... data rate drops of to nearly 0 after a minute or so
[03:09:56] <mritun_> had to reattach bundled pcndriver
[03:10:03] <mritun_> pcn driver*
[03:10:08] <dlg> heh, vmware
[03:10:18] <mritun_> dlg: two separate issues
[03:10:20] * dlg used to crash the host os while hacking in the client os
[03:10:43] <mritun_> one with native install... bundled broadcom driver doesn't work
[03:10:52] <mritun_> one in vmware, vmxnet doesn't work
[03:10:52] <dlg> which hardware?
[03:11:01] <mritun_> this is an acer laptop
[03:11:16] <mritun_> wait.. I'd give the chip number
[03:11:49] <mritun_> broadcom 440x
[03:12:13] <networkdump> any suggestion?
[03:12:31] <dlg> 440?
[03:12:46] <networkdump> my opensolaris guest isn't bridged to the broadcom interface
[03:13:08] <mritun_> well from here you're on your own
[03:13:21] <dlg> i dont know what a broadcom 440x is
[03:13:24] <mritun_> I have zilch idea about x2100
[03:13:27] <dlg> oh
[03:13:28] <dlg> bce
[03:13:33] <dlg> thats different to bge
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[03:13:46] <mritun_> bge is gigabit
[03:14:06] <networkdump> it's binded to a virtual interface (vifX) which is connected to an internal bridge
[03:15:03] <networkdump> anyway, this is weird because ip is working. It seems that only the upper protocols are affected
[03:15:35] <mritun_> is udp working ?
[03:15:40] <networkdump> no
[03:15:43] <mritun_> try netcat
[03:15:53] <networkdump> it doesn't I assure you :)
[03:15:58] <networkdump> not even resolving so...
[03:16:05] <networkdump> and netcat is not installed on this guest
[03:16:19] <mritun_> hmm.. are you sure the ping isn't a "fake" ?
[03:16:25] <networkdump> 100%
[03:16:26] <mritun_> i.e. the traffic is infact passing
[03:16:39] <mritun_> and no unreachable hosts are pingable
[03:16:52] <networkdump> no firewall, no nat, only forwarding
[03:17:00] <networkdump> no
[03:17:07] <networkdump> I can ping from and to
[03:17:20] <networkdump> I clearly see the traffic with tcpdump on the dom0
[03:17:38] <networkdump> and on the domU with snoop
[03:18:40] <mritun_> sorry for my lack of knowledge of xen networking, but how do you do forwarding ? ipfilter/equivalent ? or is it setup by xen itself ?
[03:18:47] <networkdump> no my self
[03:18:54] <mritun_> ipf ?
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[03:19:16] <networkdump> brand install, never touched it
[03:19:26] <networkdump> how do I clear rules (man are not installed)
[03:19:47] <wesolows> 0. install the man pages
[03:19:56] <mritun_> hmm, are you sure dom0 solaris is setup as router... because I remember the default setting was changed to not act as router on fresh install
[03:20:18] <mritun_> ipf flush (if my memory is right)
[03:20:25] <networkdump> dom0 is linux
[03:20:31] <mritun_> ow
[03:20:44] <mritun_> ipchains horrors !! :(
[03:20:53] <networkdump> no firewall, only forwarding
[03:21:19] <mritun_> my linux knowledge is *very* rusty... sorry no help there
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[03:21:39] <networkdump> I'm confident it's not linux the problem
[03:21:48] <networkdump> since Linux domU has no problem with it
[03:21:59] <networkdump> with the exact same configuration
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[03:23:42] <mritun_> do you have anything in syslog on solaris ?
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[03:33:42] <networkdump> no
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[03:34:30] <networkdump> I'll try updating xen on my dom0 host, but it's a little risky since I don't have direct physical access
[03:35:26] <victori_> anyone know when shared memory support is planned for brandz-linux?
[03:37:42] <nrubsig> !seen ahl
[03:38:10] <BuzzyF> can I run microsoft windows in brandz?
[03:38:38] <BuzzyF> just kidding!
[03:39:31] <nrubsig> BuzzyF: run qemu
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[03:43:32] <Lurken1> Or run Solaris in VMware ;)
[03:46:19] <BuzzyF> does wine work in solaris?
[03:46:42] <binarycrusader> Yes
[03:46:44] <mritun_> BuzzyF: on at least OpenSolaris, yes
[03:47:00] <binarycrusader> building from source isn't for the faint of heart though
[03:47:01] <binarycrusader> last I heard
[03:47:02] <BuzzyF> what about solaris 10 8/07>
[03:47:09] <mritun_> networkdump: my money is on the drivers & may be the routing/filtering rules
[03:47:29] <e^ipi> in x86 anyways
[03:47:56] <mritun_> BuzzyF: for all the Neat(TM) stuff, you'd need some bleeding edge stuff
[03:48:19] <mritun_> *might* work on Solaris... I wouldn't hazard a guess anybody actually tried it though
[03:48:50] <palowoda> Sometimes I enjoy the virtual entertainment of people using a virtual bat and beating themself over the head with a virtual os.
[03:49:07] <binarycrusader> palowoda: :)
[03:49:29] <e^ipi> there was a SPARC port for some unknown reason
[03:49:29] <e^ipi> fat lot of good it'd do you unless you could find some SPARC binaries that called the win32 API's
[03:50:12] <binarycrusader> BuzzyF: http://www.blastwave.org/wine/
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[03:50:45] <g4lt-sb100> e^ipi, it nver saw the light of day, it got squashed before it even got released in alpha
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[03:53:48] <networkdump> mritun_: like I said, if I bind this ip on a linux domU, there is no problem at all. So this is not a routing/filtering problem. And the driver have worked perfectly for 6 linux servers running with load-balancer and didn't face any problem
[03:53:55] <nrubsig> Does Wine currently support the 64bit windows API ?
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[04:17:48] <richlowe> Well that's not good.
[04:18:14] <richlowe> dmarker: Hey, wake up.
[04:18:43] <jbk> ?
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[04:20:09] *** nrubsig is now known as cia-70
[04:20:34] <cia-70> wh31274: 6605138 XEN backout, doesn't work
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[04:20:42] <richlowe> "ha ha"
[04:20:43] <richlowe> or something.
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[04:20:56] <jbk> :(
[04:21:09] <richlowe> well that's just fucking wild.
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[04:23:41] <nrubsig> !seen cia-70
[04:24:16] <Gman> richlowe, worth a chuckle
[04:25:16] <nrubsig> Gman: if johnlevon ever joins this channel and drone is healthy again try a "!seen cia-70" ... and then ask john why his work was backed-out...
[04:25:27] <Chipdancer> nrubsig: already?
[04:25:30] <Chipdancer> geez
[04:25:31] <nrubsig> Gman: ... the reponse may be interesting
[04:25:47] <Chipdancer> nrubsig: he went to bed a couple of hours ago from what I can tell
[04:26:01] <binarycrusader> richlowe: ?
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[04:39:44] <richlowe> binarycrusader: the hg copy of onnv-gate is having issues.
[04:39:47] <richlowe> or the hg.o.o machine is.
[04:39:53] <binarycrusader> richlowe: oi
[04:39:58] <richlowe> big issues, since it just hung up on me.
[04:40:04] <richlowe> it was only exploding before.
[04:40:09] <binarycrusader> i'll make sure I don't update :}
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[05:05:21] <binarycrusader> /who bgupta
[05:05:34] <binarycrusader> sorry, wrong window
[05:10:13] <_array> hey binarycrusader
[05:10:21] <binarycrusader> _array: hey
[05:11:01] <_array> I've got an idea on how I'm going to get the Netra T1 going
[05:11:16] <binarycrusader> Oh?
[05:11:45] <_array> I'm going to open to case and hook a normal cdrom onto one of the ide ribbons as master
[05:11:52] <_array> power it back up and 'boot cdrom'
[05:12:21] <_array> just so I can get an OS on it
[05:12:37] <_array> and I won't have to buy a slimline cdr for it
[05:12:59] <_array> http://040.digital-bless.com/texts/installing_debian_linux_on_sun_netra_x1.html
[05:13:24] <binarycrusader> Hrm.
[05:13:26] <_array> thats the tutorial I found, it's for an X1 but it's the same for the T1
[05:13:27] <binarycrusader> Might work :}
[05:13:35] <_array> I hope so :)
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[05:50:04] <stevel> richlowe: looking into the scm issue now
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[05:53:35] <richlowe> stevel: ok.
[05:54:03] * jmcp scrolls back
[05:54:13] <jmcp> I haven't seen a backout message like roland was referring to
[05:54:26] <richlowe> jmcp: it never happened.
[05:54:33] <richlowe> also, it's Roland.
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[05:55:00] <jmcp> richlowe: figured as much
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[05:57:10] <richlowe> jmcp: this issue is totally different to that, hopefully, too
[05:59:38] <jmcp> richlowe: figured as much
[06:00:11] <jmcp> hang on .. what issue are we talking about?
[06:00:57] <richlowe> See Comments.
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[06:37:50] <boyd> Hey, all
[06:38:07] <jmcp> hi boyd
[06:38:10] <jmcp> still in cbr?
[06:38:26] <jmcp> boyd: did you hear about the whirlpool suit? it's apparently been dropped - http://www.smh.com.au/news/web/lawsuit-over-forum-comments-withdrawn/2007/09/19/1189881557140.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
[06:38:38] <jmcp> boyd:: " Ironically, the negative word of mouth and worldwide media coverage criticising 2Clix for trying to silence its critics seems to have damaged the firm's reputation far more than the forum threads that were the subject of the lawsuit.
[06:38:39] <jmcp> "
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[06:41:03] <boyd> jmcp: Yep, cbr
[06:41:17] <boyd> jmcp: really... good news about whirlpool
[06:42:32] <jmcp> yup
[06:42:41] <jmcp> yet to be fully confirmed by the court, but still
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[07:05:46] <boyd> Tempt: ping
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[07:09:11] <Gman> yay, gnome 2.20 is out!
[07:09:37] <richlowe> what'd they break this time? :)
[07:09:50] * richlowe is still bitter about the Xresources tomfoolery.
[07:10:46] <Gman> http://www.gnome.org/start/2.20/notes/en/
[07:10:53] * dlg still bitter about cdparanoia being a depend of gnome-terminal
[07:10:54] <Gman> (though suggests it's unfinished0
[07:11:07] <Gman> dlg, you're kidding?
[07:11:19] <dlg> maybe my platform packages it weird
[07:11:25] <dlg> s/maybe //
[07:11:48] * Gman checks upstream source
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[07:13:21] <dlg> indirectly
[07:13:28] <Gman> dlg, must be some weird dependancy
[07:13:45] <boyd> weird indeed!
[07:14:13] <boyd> Gman: So, any idea when we will see the 2.20 based JDS?
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[07:14:52] <Gman> boyd, b74
[07:15:32] <boyd> wow... that's fast
[07:15:43] <dlg> Gman: http://pastebin.com/d356a5381
[07:15:57] <richlowe> Gman: huh, that only gives them 4 or 5 builds to get it sane.
[07:16:04] <richlowe> unless JDS run ahead, build# wise.
[07:17:25] <richlowe> dlg: doesn't that recurse through deps?
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[07:17:36] <Gman> richlowe, http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/jds/documents/jds_schedule/
[07:17:45] <richlowe> I'd bet it picks it up real indirectly via one of the gnome libs.
[07:17:49] <richlowe> which is still irritating, but...
[07:17:52] <Gman> oh, looks like b75
[07:18:07] * Gman can only guess it's gnome-vfs
[07:18:10] <Gman> but i can't think why
[07:19:18] <Gman> yeah, it's gnome-vfs
[07:19:29] <Gman> for the cdda module i'm guessing
[07:19:37] <dlg> yeah
[07:19:41] <e^ipi> Gman: include xchat...
[07:19:45] <e^ipi> just putting that out there
[07:19:46] <dlg> surprises me every time i build it
[07:19:59] <e^ipi> :)
[07:20:04] <richlowe> and totally don't play the "gaim does IRC too" card.
[07:20:09] <richlowe> it does it bloody awfully. :)
[07:20:15] * Gman would love to include xchat :)
[07:20:27] <e^ipi> want I should file a bug?
[07:20:35] <chrisso> who
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[07:20:39] <richlowe> I'd be shocked if there wasn't one already.
[07:21:52] <Gman> 6539278
[07:21:56] <Gman> though marked as incomplete
[07:22:17] <Gman> guess who marked it incomplete? :)
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[07:22:35] <richlowe> they played the damn gaim card.
[07:23:15] <e^ipi> nevada's got tons of bloat including at least 3 seperate RDBMS's
[07:23:19] <dlg> if one tool is fine for a job, why are they shipping bash now?
[07:23:27] <boyd> That sucks... it's like saying that you don't need ls since you can do the same job with perl
[07:23:31] <e^ipi> what's a couple hundred k for a decent IRC client
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[07:23:45] <Gman> richlowe, darrenm :)
[07:25:12] <IPGHOST> hi
[07:26:01] <IPGHOST> i have solaris 10 runing dhcp , i added the static IP as is Solaris Admin Guide from sun , but i m unable to disable dhcp how can i do that
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[07:30:41] <IPGHOST> i have solaris 10 runing dhcp , i added the static IP as is Solaris Admin Guide from sun , but i m unable to disable dhcp how can i do that
[07:31:04] <cmihai> IPGHOST, /etc/dhcp.nic - delete that
[07:31:09] <cmihai> just see /etc/dhcp.*
[07:31:20] <cmihai> Then restart network/physical.. yeah
[07:31:21] <IPGHOST> cmihai, tahnx
[07:31:43] <cmihai> It's usually just an empty file
[07:32:33] <IPGHOST> hmmm
[07:33:04] <IPGHOST> I've just moved to solaris fro linux so it sbit confusing yet
[07:34:16] <cmihai> docs.sun.com
[07:34:22] <cmihai> Get the basic net admin guide
[07:34:51] <IPGHOST> ok
[07:35:11] <cmihai> Also check the unix rosetta stone: http://bhami.com/rosetta.html (equivalence guide)
[07:36:32] <cmihai> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/prod/solaris.10 - Solaris 10 documentation
[07:36:52] <cmihai> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/47.16 - Sysadmin guides (like books)
[07:37:21] <cmihai> Make sure to read at least the Basic, Advanced and IP ones
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[07:38:50] <nrubsig> This is bad: http://alan.coopersmith.swellserver.com/news/top_stories/auto80.php
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[07:42:30] <e^ipi> roland, you're not 12, don't troll
[07:43:25] <nrubsig> e^ipi: the site is tempting... :-)
[07:44:09] <nrubsig> e^ipi: http://george.w.bush.swellserver.com/news/top_stories/auto80.php
[07:44:34] <moazamraja> erhmm...
[07:44:47] <moazamraja> the real Alan Coopersmith doesn't drive a 7-series bmw :/
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[07:46:29] <Berny> christ you crazy bastard
[07:47:17] <nrubsig> moazamraja: http://moazam.raja.swellserver.com/news/top_stories/actor_new_zealand.php
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[07:50:52] <nrubsig> Too bad they have no template for "XYZ eaten by komodo dragons"
[07:51:23] <moazamraja> nrubsig: sad.
[07:51:36] * nrubsig looks at johnlev
[07:51:43] * johnlev waves back
[07:51:44] <furrycat> at least he was having fun filming
[07:51:47] <nrubsig> johnlev: erm
[07:51:56] <nrubsig> johnlev: you can't be john levon
[07:52:01] <johnlev> OK!
[07:52:10] <nrubsig> johnlev: see http://john.levon.swellserver.com/news/top_stories/auto80.php
[07:52:50] <nrubsig> !seen CIA-70
[07:53:30] <johnlev> you strange person
[07:54:03] <nrubsig> johnlev: actually you died twice: http://john.levon.swellserver.com/news/top_stories/actor_new_zealand.php
[07:54:16] <johnlev> have you been drinking again roland?
[07:54:24] * nrubsig thinks
[07:54:25] <nrubsig> nope
[07:54:33] <johnlev> you had to think -> yes
[07:54:42] <nrubsig> *hicks*
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[07:59:05] <nrubsig> Grumpf... the server appears to have only six different templates, and none of them come even close to "torn appart by wild [insert_animal]" ...
[07:59:14] <nrubsig> insert_animal=turtle would be interesting
[08:00:54] <Berny> what drugs are you on?
[08:01:23] <jmcp> not enough of them, from the looks of it
[08:01:37] <boyd> Why, because he's still conscious?
[08:02:12] <nrubsig> heh
[08:02:22] <WickedWicky> b00
[08:02:27] <nrubsig> I'mjust crawling over the horax list in http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/deervest.htm
[08:03:56] <Berny> hmm, anyone can tell me what the warning in 126400-02 means? does that tell me if i run 6.4.4 i have to post and boot the os first... but for other firmware revs i'm  fine if i just go ahead?
[08:04:18] <nrubsig> http://www.newtechusa.com/ppi/main.asp sounds like an ancestor of Linux.
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[08:06:32] <nrubsig> Berny: do you have an URL to the readme, please ?
[08:11:30] <nrubsig> Did anyone here installed B72 on a Blade1000 yet ?
[08:11:47] <e^ipi> yes... curiously enough
[08:12:03] <nrubsig> any problems ?
[08:12:16] <e^ipi> suspend/resume is broken
[08:12:26] <nrubsig> ouch
[08:12:27] <e^ipi> other than that no, not really
[08:12:42] <nrubsig> e^ipi: please define "broken" ...
[08:12:47] <e^ipi> nrubsig: it doesn't
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[08:13:04] <nrubsig> e^ipi: you mean it doesn't suspend ?
[08:13:09] <e^ipi> correct
[08:13:10] <jmcp> only if you hang it from something
[08:13:21] <nrubsig> jmcp: ?!
[08:13:24] * boyd groans
[08:13:53] <e^ipi> sys-suspend does nothing, apart from lock the screen &  spit "Suspend Failed" to stderr
[08:13:54] <Berny> nrubsig: http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/advsearch.do?collection=PATCH&type=collections&queryKey5=126400&toDocument=yes
[08:14:25] <boyd> e^ipi: last time I had that there was info in /var/adm/messages about a device that couldn't be suspended
[08:14:37] <boyd> ... tpae drive IIRC
[08:14:52] <nrubsig> Mhhhh.... http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/deadfairy.asp sounds worth for a rework... =:-)
[08:14:53] <e^ipi> I have no tape drive installed
[08:15:04] <boyd> well, it was an example.
[08:17:42] <nrubsig> Berny: which warning do you mean ?
[08:18:38] <Berny> problem description 6564792 (right after files included)
[08:19:36] <nrubsig> erm
[08:19:44] * nrubsig thinks
[08:20:15] <nrubsig> AFAIK you have to boot into the OS and then trigger the prom update from OS level.
[08:20:47] <Berny> i would but the current firmware doesn't allow that yet
[08:21:12] <nrubsig> e.g. don't turn the box off, then on and then boot the firmware update
[08:21:22] <nrubsig> erm
[08:22:02] <nrubsig> Berny: I'm not sure. WHen in doubt email opensolaris-discuss@
[08:22:03] <Berny> install instruction says when updating via sc, powerdown the box and pull in the new firmware via ftp
[08:22:24] <nrubsig> uhm.......
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[08:26:53] <e^ipi> oh sure, now sys-suspend starts working ,just so that I look like a liar
[08:27:37] <Berny> :-P
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[08:29:31] <nrubsig> Who actually wrote usr/src/cmd/boot/scripts/root_archive.ksh ? IMO the author should be hung, shot and fed to wild komodo dragons (preferably in reverse order to increase fun) ...
[08:30:18] <Berny> ha it worked
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[08:35:08] <Pietro_S> oh, there is suspend feature? to ram or to disk?
[08:35:23] <e^ipi> disk
[08:35:27] <e^ipi> SPARC only
[08:38:14] <Pietro_S> does anybody work on poting it to x86?
[08:39:06] <johnlev> Pietro_S: yes, people are working on it.
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[08:44:21] <Pietro_S> good, I hope that it will be aviable soon
[08:46:27] <nrubsig> johnlev: just curious: XEN is specifically x86-only and won't work on other CPU architectures, right ?
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[08:46:53] <johnlev> nrubsig: the xen project has PowerPC, x86, and Itanium ports
[08:47:04] <nrubsig> mhhhh
[08:48:00] <nrubsig> johnlev: why are there no SPARC ports (okm there is sun4v with integrated hypervisor but that won't help SPARC64 machines, e.g. sun4us or OPL) ?
[08:48:04] <rvalles> no sparc64 yet sadly
[08:48:07] <nrubsig> s/are/is/
[08:48:14] <nrubsig> s/ports/port/
[08:48:25] <johnlev> nrubsig: because nobody has been interested enough to do it, presumably
[08:48:36] <johnlev> that's the usual reason things don't happen
[08:49:11] <nrubsig> johnlev: but the genreal framework and architecture integrated into Solaris supports alternative achitecturs, right ?
[08:49:24] <nrubsig> s/genreal/general/
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[08:49:55] <johnlev> nrubsig: sure.
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[08:50:20] <johnlev> where stuff is (likely to be) common, it ends up in places like usr/src/uts/common/xen
[08:50:41] <johnlev> bed time for me
[08:50:51] * nrubsig wishes solaris had an option similar to the userland kernel thing in linux
[08:51:19] <dlg> kernels are no fun unless theyre on real hardware
[08:51:44] <nrubsig> dlg: well, it would make kernel hacking on stuff like ZFS easier.
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[08:52:10] <Pietro_S> did anyone try - using pkgtool (SFE) to produce sparc binaries from x64 machine?
[08:52:15] <boyd> nrubsig: What about something like xen?
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[08:52:38] <boyd> Pietro_S: Do you have a cross-compiler that I'm not aware of?
[08:53:26] <nrubsig> boyd: erm, no. XEN AFAIK requires support from the underlying OS, right ?
[08:53:56] <nightswim> depends
[08:54:02] <nrubsig> Tpenta: who are you ?
[08:54:03] <boyd> Depends on if you are using HVM (full hardware virtualisation) which requuires that your CPU can do it
[08:54:04] <nightswim> if you have the proper cpu it doesnt
[08:54:17] <Tpenta> nrubsig: ?
[08:54:34] <nrubsig> Tpenta: you are definately ont Alan Hargreaves
[08:55:03] <Tpenta> why do you say that roland?
[08:55:08] <nrubsig> Tpenta: http://alan.hargreaves.swellserver.com/news/top_stories/auto80.php
[08:55:15] <WickedWicky> oh god
[08:55:20] <Tempt> boyd: moof
[08:55:24] <nrubsig> yeah, zombie!
[08:55:36] * boyd wonders when nrubsig will get sick of that joke
[08:55:49] <boyd> Tempt: Oh, you're alive :)
[08:55:54] <Tempt> Vaguely.
[08:55:59] <Tempt> (around the edges)
[08:56:18] <boyd> Big night was it?
[08:56:21] <WickedWicky> nrubsig: about that drinking question you answered with "no", lemme rephrase that question.... did you drink, honestly
[08:56:23] <Tempt> Somewhat
[08:56:28] <Tempt> :)
[08:56:30] <WickedWicky> ola Tempt
[08:56:49] <Tpenta> sigh, they were not even clever enough to code that a surname ending with "s" should not have "'s" tacked onto it
[08:57:22] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Tpenta
[08:57:54] <Berny> hey girls...
[08:58:00] <Berny> aehm hi Tempt , WickedWicky
[08:58:03] <WickedWicky> hey boys
[08:58:08] <Berny> morning Tpenta
[08:58:09] <WickedWicky> super star DJs
[08:58:18] * JoergB is back (gone 16:01:52)
[08:58:19] <Tpenta> morning
[08:58:21] <JoergB> Moin
[08:58:47] <WickedWicky> tjena
[08:59:12] <nrubsig> guten morgen alleiseits und allersamts
[08:59:23] <WickedWicky> guten morgen nrubsig , alles klar?
[09:00:04] <Berny> oh my god the germans...
[09:00:11] <WickedWicky> Dutch
[09:00:13] <nrubsig> theoretisch ja, praktisch warte ich drauf das diese xx@@@!!!!-Ultra5 mal fertig wird....
[09:00:15] <WickedWicky> but close enough
[09:00:17] <Berny> yeah yeah
[09:00:24] <WickedWicky> HEY!
[09:00:29] <WickedWicky> nothing wrong wiht Ultra5!
[09:00:35] <WickedWicky> not as cool as a SS20
[09:00:38] <nrubsig> Berny: you know... we will rule he world same day!
[09:00:58] <Berny> some day you mean brain?
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[09:01:25] <Tpenta> <impersonate id="john cleese">Just don't mention the war. I slipped once, but I think I got away with it.</impersonate>
[09:01:28] <WickedWicky> nrubsig: what you're looking for is a coffee
[09:01:31] <nrubsig> Berny: no, right after the extinction of mankind
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[09:01:44] <WickedWicky> Tpenta: hahha, faulty towers rules
[09:01:55] <Berny> Tpenta: that line rules!
[09:01:58] <Tpenta> :)
[09:02:08] <WickedWicky> YOU STARTED IT!
[09:02:18] <nrubsig> WickedWicky: I am already drugged with too many coffees which leads to bad jokes
[09:02:21] <Berny> so i'm not the only sicko to know that :>
[09:02:26] <nrubsig> WickedWicky: AND YOU CONTINIUED IT
[09:02:38] <Berny> we didn't start the fire...
[09:02:49] <nrubsig> bah
[09:02:55] <nrubsig> Just burn down the house
[09:03:13] <WickedWicky> nrubsig: just with EK/WK soccer
[09:03:16] <Berny> well once they're finished with the works on the power lines i'll restart the big (sun) fire
[09:03:32] <WickedWicky> nrubsig: look at this dream team in action btw
[09:03:34] <WickedWicky> http://www.wickedwicky.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=431
[09:03:42] <Berny> that hall be enough work for today
[09:03:50] <nrubsig> WickedWicky: don't you mean AK-47 ?
[09:04:04] <WickedWicky> no
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[09:04:10] <WickedWicky> I'm talking about soccer
[09:04:18] <Berny> hey wicky, i got the same combo here :-)
[09:04:20] <WickedWicky> which is around the only event I feel competitive with the germans
[09:04:31] <nrubsig> 22 donkeys running after one ball...
[09:04:39] <WickedWicky> I'll actually be in Germany in October
[09:04:40] <WickedWicky> guess why
[09:04:41] <Berny> 20 monkeys
[09:04:50] <Berny> two just standing there watching
[09:04:54] <nrubsig> Berny: 22 in brazil
[09:05:10] <Berny> they're not playing proper soccer
[09:05:16] <nrubsig> well, 23 including the LOTD
[09:05:37] <WickedWicky> last time I checked out Flamengo playing in Maracana the goaly wasnt really chasing the ball :P
[09:05:40] <nrubsig> LordOfTheDonkeys, clothed in black
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[09:15:00] <WickedWicky> awesome
[09:15:20] <WickedWicky> I just got ammunition enough for an entire week to be totaly sarcastic
[09:15:26] <WickedWicky> and I didnt even have to do much for it
[09:15:43] <WickedWicky> just say for a week how a certain change will fail and wont work as the teamleader says it should be done
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[09:15:55] <WickedWicky> argue how the change isnt as easy and riskless as he says it is
[09:16:03] <WickedWicky> of course he wont listen
[09:16:07] <WickedWicky> and this morning KABOOM
[09:16:16] <WickedWicky> server died
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[09:18:02] <quasi> of course you'll be blamed either way ;)
[09:18:09] <WickedWicky> nope
[09:18:12] <WickedWicky> cause I didnt do the change
[09:18:36] <palowoda> What is dependent on the SUNWastdev AT&T AST development utilities?
[09:19:22] <Pietro_S> boyd: well, pkgtool has this option --target=arch, I don't know which cross-compiler it uses
[09:19:53] <WickedWicky> I assume you'll need to build a gcc-crosscompiler
[09:19:57] <WickedWicky> which is fairly easy to do
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[09:55:25] <bda> http://overheardinphilly.blogspot.com/2006/04/whiz-wit.html
[09:55:26] <bda> Oh, Philly.
[09:55:47] <trygvis> yarr
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[09:57:52] <trochej> noooo
[09:57:54] <trochej> not that
[09:57:56] <trochej> :)
[09:58:22] <bda> http://overheardinphilly.blogspot.com/2006/01/mohammed-and-mountain.html # Hahaha, sometimes I do love this city.
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[10:09:05] <trochej> Isn't topic a litte dated?
[10:09:15] <trochej> http://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/b73/
[10:09:58] <estibi_> :)
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[10:12:00] <PerterB> not that out of date, I only downloaded b72 last night
[10:14:31] <trochej> :)
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[11:03:14] <timsf> morning all
[11:03:28] <trygvis> yarr
[11:04:03] <timsf> Of course, I mean "Top o' da mornin' ya scurvy dogss!!"
[11:04:16] <trygvis> yarr!
[11:06:00] <trochej> Coffee?
[11:07:39] <trygvis> no, lunch
[11:07:52] <WickedWicky> awesome
[11:08:05] <WickedWicky> SXCE72 just crashed hard while installing opensound
[11:08:34] <WickedWicky> came back up, told me my boot_archive was corrupt and I should boot in fail safe, did that, fsck ran, UFS corruption \o/
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[11:11:31] <trochej> http://www.crystalspace3d.org/main/Crystal_Core
[11:11:36] <trochej> Would be nice to have it on solaris
[11:11:53] <trochej> WickedWicky: I had no problem with opensound and sxce72
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[11:21:27] <WickedWicky> trochej: my luck then
[11:21:42] <trygvis> WickedWicky: yeah, I also usually get UFS corruption if I reset the box
[11:21:59] <trygvis> trochej: what does it depend on?
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[11:25:16] <trochej> trygvis: Don't know now, but I used it on Linux and it's quite sexy
[11:25:28] <trochej> trygvis: But there I just apt-geted a package :)
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[11:37:36] <trochej> trygvis: http://www.crystalspace3d.org/docs/online/manual-1.0/cs_2.3.php#2.3
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[11:42:10] <trygvis> hm, a few
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[11:45:07] * trochej plays with Proxim AP-4000
[11:45:13] <trochej> It's first time I got one :)
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[12:13:56] <palowoda> WickedWicky:  I had the exact problem with opensound crashing my systems just like you did with build 72 only it started around build 68.  Haven't tried opensound sence.
[12:15:18] <WickedWicky> I used it with 68,69, no probs then.. I *need* opensound cause my Conexant HDaudio chipset isnt supported out of the box
[12:15:54] <palowoda> Mine was just a VIA AC97 audio based chipset.  Still it really screwed my system up.
[12:16:16] <WickedWicky> I'll have another go with it after lunch
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[12:16:36] <WickedWicky> brb
[12:18:28] <palowoda> I have to take off but I do remember the uninstall of opensound didn't work properly.   Didn't have time to debug it and reinstalled.  Be interesting what you find out.  I'll look at the drone logs later.
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[12:35:06] <chrisso> ?
[12:36:47] <Tempt> chrisso: Heya.
[12:42:42] <chrisso> Diggity
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[12:49:07] <WickedWicky> lunch done
[12:49:08] <WickedWicky> meeting next
[12:49:10] <WickedWicky> \o/
[12:49:14] <Tempt> urk
[12:49:17] <Tempt> Meetings be damned.
[12:49:19] <Megaf> Good morning all (7AM here)
[12:49:30] <WickedWicky> dia :)
[12:49:49] <WickedWicky> Tempt: ya.. it's only 30 minutes though, and there will be coffee
[12:50:10] <Tempt> aah, Coffee.
[12:50:16] <Tempt> Possibly makes up for a dull meeting.
[12:50:31] <Tempt> Of course, the simpler way would be to schedule the meeting at a cafe.
[12:51:32] <Megaf> WickedWicky: where are you from?
[12:54:19] <chrisso> back on the bl0rt bus
[12:54:30] <Tempt> chrisso: Opened a bottle of red?
[12:54:37] <chrisso> dig
[12:54:58] <Tempt> man, that's going hard.
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[12:55:46] <chrisso> nah - just a glass ... or ten
[12:56:02] <Tempt> Until you empty the house?
[12:56:17] <Tempt> and journey to the bl0rtshop for refills?
[12:56:49] <chrisso> I have a bl0rt b0unty bunk3r
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[12:57:23] <chrisso> And besides, I did 20 laps around the pool - the liver recovered - now I must punish
[12:57:40] <Tempt> True
[12:57:46] <Tempt> can't let that liver get the better of you.
[12:57:51] <Tempt> I just wish my fscking pizza would turn up.
[12:58:05] * flyingparchment waits for beer to cool down
[12:58:11] <chrisso> haha - i have my pasta with copious amounts of parmesan chiizu
[12:58:40] <Tempt> Yes, well, I think pizza has the level of simplicity I crave.
[12:58:55] <Tempt> I should have just gone down to DonDon.
[12:59:39] <chrisso> Don Don is a known quantity
[13:00:04] <Tempt> I hear rumours there is another one in southbank.
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[13:00:26] <chrisso> oh noes
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[13:08:53] <Tempt> My pizza is still not here. NOT HAPPY.
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[13:13:38] <chrisso> death to the pizza guy
[13:14:05] <chrisso> hope he smashes his moped - its probably blaise anyway ;-)
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[13:16:47] <Tempt> pizza arrived. feeding.
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[13:29:30] <flyingparchment> load average: 6.66
[13:29:33] <flyingparchment> the devil is in my computer!
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[13:36:34] <PerterB> stealin' your emails
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[14:20:03] * trochej ates kentucky affraid chicken
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[14:20:09] <trochej> eats
[14:20:10] <trochej> Drat
[14:22:19] <quasi> deepfried rat in flour with a touch of engine grease
[14:22:30] <trochej> tru
[14:22:49] <Tempt> quasi: Aah, you're eating at the local chinese takeaway?
[14:23:56] <trochej> Ehh, I love migrating unmaintained samba to to-be-unmaintained samba between two different operating systems
[14:23:59] <trochej> Just rox
[14:24:00] <quasi> Tempt: ehrm, no - I was guessing at the ingredients in trochejs food
[14:24:10] <Tempt> There's no rat in KFC.
[14:24:15] <Tempt> There isn't anything organic at all.
[14:24:19] <trochej> quasi: Rats are in enterprise editions here, typically it would be what was left of Colonel
[14:24:38] <Tempt> (except, organic in the sense of carbon-based)
[14:24:47] <trochej> HMmm
[14:24:55] <trochej> I'm not sure of that either
[14:24:56] <trochej> :)
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[14:26:54] <Pietro_S> what attributes should have directory /var/run/wesnothd ?
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[14:27:04] <asyd> wesnothd! you gamers!
[14:28:37] <quasi> 000
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[14:34:53] <trochej> Pietro_S: It compiles on Solaris?
[14:35:58] <Pietro_S> quasi: sure, I commited package to SFE
[14:36:43] <Pietro_S> now, I'm considering if I should bundle also server or put server to special package ...
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[14:39:08] <Pietro_S> but on solaris there is problem with swithing languages - it use libintl and it doesn't work from some mystery - I tied to hunt it whole weekend but without success :(
[14:39:27] <Pietro_S> so only english translation is aviable
[14:39:30] <trochej> Pietro_S: It compiles with studio or gcc?
[14:40:08] <Pietro_S> gcc
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[14:43:04] <Pietro_S> trochej: if you want to install it, wait a bit - later today I will commit newer version (general announce will be tomorrow)
[14:43:39] <trochej> Pietro_S: Thnx
[14:44:17] <trochej> I need to catch dclarke
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[15:10:47] <nachox> morning
[15:13:57] <Tempt> morning
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[15:14:51] <jmcp> gday
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[15:15:09] <trochej> 'lo
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[15:34:21] <cmihai> Heh, did you guys get a hold of Oracle Secure Files? :-)
[15:34:36] <Tempt> Oracle Secure Files??
[15:35:03] <jmcp> aren't they the ones which come pre-deleted?
[15:35:56] <cmihai> Tempt, DatabaseFS
[15:36:10] <nachox> DatabaseFS?
[15:36:10] <cmihai> It's got compression and data integrity features like ZFS... and good performance.
[15:36:21] <cmihai> "Simplify systems by storing all your data in the Oracle Database with Oracle Secure Files"
[15:36:30] <nachox> multiplatform?
[15:36:48] <flyingparchment> another new filesystem?
[15:36:51] <cmihai> I've been to an official launch here, they've only put out the Linux version.
[15:37:08] <Tempt> aah
[15:37:09] <flyingparchment> yeah oracle on linux.. for when you need.. a reliable database that crashes a lot
[15:37:10] <Tempt> Yes, well.
[15:37:11] <cmihai> But this Oracle Secure Files (it's in 11g) seems to be a filesystem-like database with good performance for all your stuff
[15:37:20] <Tempt> The one thing an Oracle filesystem will not do is simplify administration!
[15:37:21] <Tempt> :)
[15:37:42] <cmihai> They also have FlashBack and Total recall that are very much reminiscent of ZFS snapshots ;-)
[15:37:49] <cmihai> Though you can take it to the level of a single transaction.
[15:38:00] <cmihai> Tempt, that's HP's part
[15:38:02] <Tempt> I wonder how long it will take before they release it for real operating systems?
[15:38:06] <cmihai> Or so the marketdroid told me.
[15:38:14] <cmihai> Tempt, I tried asking about Solaris.
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[15:38:22] <cmihai> I was given an umbrella and told to shut up :P
[15:38:25] <sparcdr> hey
[15:38:41] <Tempt> Hah.
[15:38:42] <Tempt> Indeed.
[15:38:56] <Tempt> I wouldn't be surprised if Oracle tries to cut their OS support down even further soon.
[15:39:01] <cmihai> Still, the umbrella is pretty cool, it's for 4-5 people at least ;-).
[15:39:20] <cmihai> Tempt, well, according to HP, 100000 of their 275000 clients are HP + Intel clients
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[15:39:27] <cmihai> Either Xeon or Itanic
[15:39:34] <Tempt> echo "alter umbrella state=open | sqlplus / as sysdba"
[15:39:39] <cmihai> :-D
[15:39:52] <cmihai> You can kill someone with this thing, it's huge
[15:40:40] <cmihai> It's large metal rod also seems to attract lightning...
[15:41:50] * paul wonders if it's still the case that 'ral' does not support USB ralink..
[15:42:19] <dlg> still probably true
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[15:44:05] <paul> dlg: hmm, so off to currys to buy an AP so ;)
[15:44:28] <Tempt> wireless is filled with evil.
[15:44:32] <WickedWicky> what day is it today? wednessday?
[15:44:52] <nightswim> talk like a pirate day
[15:44:54] <dlg> wireless is evil
[15:44:55] <jmcp> for another few minutes
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[15:45:04] <jmcp> nightswim: aaarrrrggghhhhh!
[15:45:09] <WickedWicky> crap, for the whole day i'm thinking it's tuesday
[15:45:11] <Tempt> scurvy wireless dogs!
[15:45:24] <WickedWicky> roo dog, the cross breed
[15:46:16] <nachox> Tempt: oracle did release a linux, the un^H^Hbreakable linux or something like that
[15:46:29] <nachox> so they do have an os :)
[15:46:32] * WickedWicky listens to Kevin Bloody Wilson - Roo dog
[15:46:33] <Tempt> why not just call it exceptionally stupid linux
[15:46:43] <Cyrille> isn't that just a redhat?
[15:46:53] <Tempt> I'd say they'll drop OpenVMS, Tru64, HPUX with their next release
[15:47:07] <nachox> it is just a redhat
[15:47:34] <flyingparchment> oracle still maintains Oracle/Rdb, which only works on VMS
[15:47:42] <flyingparchment> (used to be a DEC product)
[15:48:10] <mritun_> oracle is very different, imho
[15:48:45] <Tempt> Yes, Oracle's database is a completely different product.
[15:48:48] <mritun_> their premises is that everything else is just a support/fluff to run their DB
[15:48:55] <mritun_> so why not cut everything else down
[15:49:04] <paul> Tempt: they still support OpenVMS? wow
[15:49:07] <mritun_> no.. I mean oracle, the company
[15:49:16] <bda> grr. "ERROR: Cannot find install software, Exiting to shell."
[15:49:28] <paul> dlg: wireless may be evil, but running cables from room to room is either: a) too much work or b) dangerous
[15:49:31] <Tempt> Of course they still support OpenVMS
[15:49:32] <paul> ;)
[15:49:43] <Tempt> oh, the dangers of cat5 ;)
[15:49:50] <mritun_> well they support close to 12 platforms (that was 2003)
[15:50:12] * mritun_ used to work for them
[15:50:15] <dlg> paul: ok, wireless vendors are evil
[15:50:18] <Tempt> they used to support more than that
[15:50:21] <paul> dlg: indeed
[15:50:27] <dlg> and the stacks are crap
[15:50:30] <dlg> cept openbsds
[15:51:28] <mritun_> they actually want to make their RDBMS the be-all of everything
[15:51:31] <Tempt> But yeah, I'd expect them to drop hpux, openvms and tru64 with 11g
[15:51:45] <Tempt> and probably drop aix and solaris with 12
[15:52:09] <mritun_> not so soon
[15:52:25] <mritun_> but yeah... the day oracle's DB stack "boots", they would
[15:52:43] <mritun_> and then they'd prefer to drop everything out there
[15:53:03] <Tempt> Oracle support already can't handle Solaris.
[15:53:08] <mritun_> it's a simple money game
[15:54:03] <mritun_> Tempt: they had internally completed migration to linux in 2003, so that wouldn't be a surprize
[15:54:10] <mritun_> before that the dev platform was solaris
[15:54:29] <Tempt> You log cases for OAS on Solaris and they tell you to use "sysctl" or "recompile the kernel" ...
[15:54:38] <mritun_> reference build platform changed from solaris to RH Linux in 2003
[15:55:41] <mritun_> the internal stand was "we don't want to deal with third party issues"
[15:55:55] <mritun_> i.e. operating systems
[15:55:57] <Tempt> Yes, well, the Oracle employees I know hate it.
[15:56:08] <Tempt> The generally wish linux would go die in a fire.
[15:56:09] <mritun_> because that means a cut for Microsoft or Sun
[15:56:34] <mritun_> that's why they prodded RH to develop EL
[15:56:48] <mritun_> RH -> small fry, won't demand as much "cut"
[15:56:58] <mritun_> but then RH went big too...
[15:57:12] <mritun_> so now they just want to "cut the shit altogether"
[15:57:25] <Tempt> RHEL is more expensive than Windows
[15:57:29] <mritun_> yep
[15:57:32] <mritun_> and even Solaris
[15:58:03] <WickedWicky> Tempt: side note, the :-) celebrates it's 25th aniversary today, let's go for a beer
[15:58:16] <Tempt> Oh man, I had enough beers last night :)
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[15:58:43] <flyingparchment> hmm, apple xserve is actually more expensive than HP MSA
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[15:59:01] <Pietro_S> WickedWicky: congrats, nice round number ;-)
[16:00:35] <mritun_> Sun actually needs to partner with Dell
[16:00:41] <mritun_> screw HP et al
[16:00:59] <dlg> dell needs to put solaris on its hardware
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[16:01:15] <mritun_> I'm looking at startup essentials... going to Sun I can get complete HW to SW stack
[16:01:28] <mritun_> but what do we do for desktops/workstations
[16:01:39] <dlg> buy an apple
[16:01:44] <Tempt> burn an apple
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[16:01:48] <Tempt> or buy a toffee apple.
[16:01:48] <mritun_> Dell sells 21" LCDs for less than 300
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[16:01:55] <mritun_> no chance in hell with Sun
[16:02:05] <Cyrille> use Sun Rays
[16:02:08] <Tempt> I'm pretty happy with my Ultra-20.
[16:02:15] <dlg> mritun_: thats funny, cos i was thinking more about solaris on dell server hardware
[16:02:15] <mritun_> not an option for a small startup
[16:02:32] <mritun_> dlg: Sun hardware has no equivalent in Dell
[16:02:33] <dlg> which is better than suns in some areas
[16:02:43] <dlg> sif
[16:02:46] <mritun_> lower end dell is better than Sun
[16:02:47] <Pietro_S> trochej: I uploaded wesnoth spec file, if you don't want to compile it wait a bit more I'm now uploading binary to sourceforge
[16:02:51] <dlg> 2970 and x4200 are the same space
[16:02:52] <mritun_> but we're not a web startup
[16:03:20] <mritun_> we need some serious HPC gear
[16:03:34] <Tempt> Just byy Sun Opteron boxes
[16:03:35] <Tempt> buy
[16:03:40] <mritun_> and Sun is the only one making an eight socket opteron box
[16:03:41] <Tempt> They work, they're not too expensive.
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[16:03:53] <Tempt> or, look at sun's new HPC gear
[16:03:59] <dlg> yeah, 8 sockets is hard to hit
[16:04:05] <Tempt> man
[16:04:12] <Tempt> Imagine asking dell about infiniband
[16:04:12] <dlg> if you needed 4 id go with a 6950 though
[16:04:13] <Tempt> haha
[16:04:16] <mritun_> well.. then we're stuck on desktop side
[16:04:28] <mritun_> rays don't cut it
[16:04:29] <dlg> i hate dell desktops
[16:04:32] <dlg> and sun desktops
[16:04:39] * dlg shrug
[16:04:43] <mritun_> it's a < 50 people company
[16:04:53] <dlg> id go dell
[16:04:59] <Tempt> If you're that small, just buy whatever workstations suit people
[16:05:04] <Tempt> give 'em the option
[16:05:12] <mritun_> exactly
[16:05:17] <mritun_> you know the problem right
[16:05:25] <flyingparchment> we're a small company and we mostly buy apple.  works fine, easy to use for non-tech people.
[16:05:35] <mritun_> you go with Dell/IBM and they like to sell you a whole lot of shit with it
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[16:05:47] <flyingparchment> only problem is now people keep sending me shit in weird apple formats
[16:05:48] <elektronkind> upselling is the game
[16:05:53] <Tempt> Go with Dell and you end up with crap hardware
[16:05:59] <mritun_> yeah
[16:06:02] <Tempt> and no hope of building an SOE for it, since it changes weekly
[16:06:18] <Teknomancer> Hi All.
[16:06:19] <mritun_> I proposed a model where there are no desktops actually
[16:06:32] <mritun_> everyone gets some high end laptop
[16:06:47] <Tempt> urk
[16:06:54] <Tempt> I'd rather have a decent desktop supplied at work
[16:06:59] <Tempt> and an allowance to buy my own craptop
[16:07:01] <mritun_> I too
[16:07:10] <Tempt> Just like my new employer provides.
[16:07:17] <mritun_> but it's hard in a startup to supply both laptop AND a workstation
[16:07:33] <Tempt> What's your line of business?
[16:07:53] <mritun_> financial market
[16:08:15] <elektronkind> that's typical nowadays... a employee is given the choice between a (predetermined list of) laptop or desktop
[16:08:16] <mritun_> workstations would be sweet
[16:08:39] <mritun_> but then there are "two" licenses of everything etc etc
[16:08:55] <Tempt> Then decent (DECENT!) laptops
[16:08:56] <Tempt> and docking stations
[16:08:58] <Teknomancer> is there a TAP/TUN driver for solaris other than this: http://www.whiteboard.ne.jp/~admin2/tuntap/
[16:09:05] <mritun_> hmm
[16:09:21] <mritun_> actually laptops + docks@work would be ideal
[16:09:37] <Tempt> There you go then.
[16:09:39] <mritun_> If I can do dual-head with some laptop
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[16:09:43] <Tempt> Where do I send my consulting bill?
[16:09:48] <mritun_> :D
[16:09:51] <Tempt> :)
[16:10:00] <mritun_> but docks don't do dual head, right ?
[16:10:08] <trochej> dual head
[16:10:09] <trochej> hmmm
[16:10:13] <trochej> what a sensation
[16:10:21] <mritun_> hehe
[16:10:31] <Tempt> dual head
[16:10:36] <Tempt> laptop screen + LCD on the side
[16:10:43] <mritun_> :(
[16:10:49] <mritun_> guess I want too much :P
[16:11:03] <Tempt> and a pony!
[16:11:06] <elektronkind> :~(
[16:11:07] <mritun_> haha
[16:11:59] <mritun_> laptops come with their own problems thugh
[16:12:35] <mritun_> if one is stolen/lost with unencrypted data... it'd be some mighty shit
[16:12:56] <Tempt> Then give everyone workstations or sunrays
[16:13:02] <elektronkind> and a pony
[16:13:08] <Tempt> and let them RDP into their desktop over the VPN when they work from home
[16:13:10] <mritun_> I was looking at the Sunray 2FS actually
[16:13:15] <Tempt> or publish all your apps using SSGD
[16:13:24] <mritun_> it's a real cool one
[16:13:39] <Tempt> and then you can do wanrays for people at home
[16:13:42] <mritun_> and it comes with benefit that one can use windows AND linux AND solaris
[16:14:26] <Tempt> Boyd's been doing well with SSGD this week
[16:14:29] <mritun_> somehow everytime I think about this issue... Ray comes ahead of every damn fucking thing
[16:14:58] <mritun_> moreover it'd reduce our electricity bills too
[16:15:12] <Tempt> and justify buying dee-licious big hardware for the backend
[16:15:13] <mritun_> (which is damn expensive here)
[16:16:07] <mritun_> I'd go through the monetary deails once I get the quotes
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[16:16:13] <flyingparchment> damn, QFS is expensive
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[16:16:18] <flyingparchment> $8,000!
[16:16:20] <mritun_> the retail prices on website are pure garbage
[16:16:44] <flyingparchment> hmm, should i ask for a quote instead?
[16:16:47] <Tempt> Especially for some of their old products
[16:16:50] <mritun_> I've heard it's *usually* 50% on street
[16:16:51] <Tempt> like the ones that ended life with 2.6
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[16:17:50] <mritun_> $400 apiece is bit too much
[16:18:10] <Tempt> just ignore web prices
[16:18:15] <Tempt> talk to your local reseller
[16:18:28] <Tempt> (unless you're in .au, in which case wait a coupla weeks and talk to me)
[16:18:34] <mritun_> hehe
[16:18:55] <mritun_> I'm in .in
[16:19:18] <mritun_> it's another area where Sun falls short of Dell
[16:19:34] <Tempt> Sun isn't a direct sales company
[16:19:41] <Tempt> Dell IS a direct sales company
[16:19:52] <mritun_> yep... but the prices shouldn't be SO out of touch with reality
[16:20:04] <Tempt> So, just like you don't call the manufacturer of your washing machine to buy one, don't call Sun to be your hardware.
[16:20:11] <Tempt> Your local reseller will do everything for you.
[16:20:28] <mritun_> the problem is, there aren't many in .in
[16:20:51] <mritun_> Dell's website was anemic around an year back
[16:20:58] <Tempt> There will be a reseller to look after you.
[16:21:14] <mritun_> but now it's at par with everything else
[16:21:35] <mritun_> Sun's hasn't caught up even in decades
[16:21:54] <mritun_> my univ had been traditional Sun customer... even they got fed up with the hassles
[16:22:11] <mritun_> they had a Sun Ray deployment back in 2002
[16:22:16] <Tempt> Do they buy Dell switches and routers to avoid doing business with Cisco?
[16:22:19] <mritun_> around 50-100 of them
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[16:22:49] <mritun_> Tempt: it isn't the too-many-vendors problem
[16:23:06] <mritun_> it is that it is TOO much *hassle* doing business with Sun
[16:23:36] <LeftWing> The only reason we ditched our Sun Ray deployment in the library was because unfortunately my University's demented organisational structure involves management making technical decisions and Dell's lunches were better.
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[16:24:10] <Tempt> Wow
[16:24:15] <Cyrille> whereas Sun Ray lunches involved very thin sandwiches? ;-)
[16:24:16] <Tempt> Dell don't usually buy decent lunches
[16:24:31] <Tempt> State Library of Victoria is still all sunray.
[16:24:33] <LeftWing> Tempt: Well, here they bought decent lunches and gave us a raft of free kit.
[16:24:34] <dlg> sun bought me lunch recently
[16:24:37] <dlg> dell bought me coffee
[16:24:42] <mritun_> Ray deployment failed i my univ too
[16:24:49] <mritun_> half of them didn't function
[16:24:51] <dlg> sun also know what the hell im talking about when i want a hsm
[16:25:00] <Tempt> Sun around here just tend to get you so drunk you don't remember what you were talking about.
[16:25:01] <dlg> the lunch will win :)
[16:25:05] <LeftWing> Tempt: heh.
[16:25:14] <mritun_> and although half of fat computerswith linux ALSO didn't function... they were cheaper than Rays
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[16:25:25] * Stric is in charge of one dell lab (linux), one fujitsu-siemens (linux), one sunray and one imac.. diversity:ish..
[16:25:34] <mritun_> when you count the Ray prices AND then add the server price... it becomes way too expensive
[16:26:09] <LeftWing> Unfortunately, Dell managed to convince management that full PCs with Windows XP would be cheaper and easier to manage than Sun Rays for about 25 library catalogue search kiosk machines.
[16:26:38] <mritun_> LeftWing: yep the clients may be cheaper... what about the big-iron behind them ?
[16:26:42] <Tempt> *boggle
[16:26:53] <Tempt> what the fuck was wrong with the serial terminals that newcastle.edu.au used to have?
[16:26:54] <LeftWing> mritun_: X2100's are very cheap.
[16:27:03] <mritun_> lets count for around 25 clients
[16:27:04] <LeftWing> Tempt: CAN HAS GFX?!
[16:27:10] <holcomb> bring back serial
[16:27:40] <LeftWing> Tempt: Some of the databases the Library subscribe to are web-only, it would appear.
[16:27:46] <pschow> my library converted from serial to a Dell/Internet Explorer solution...most are unhappy with it..
[16:27:47] <mritun_> $200/Ray * 25 + $200/LCD*25 + ??? + $1000/network
[16:27:54] <Tempt> telnet library.newcastle.edu.au
[16:28:01] <Tempt> the pinnacle of the perfect library catalog
[16:28:14] <LeftWing> heh
[16:28:18] <Tempt> Man
[16:28:26] <Tempt> I used newcat to search libraries in victoria
[16:28:41] <Tempt> because it actually works, and most other libraries have closed telnet access off or moved to some shite web solution
[16:28:45] <Tempt> which is always laden with crap.
[16:29:03] <LeftWing> mritun_: What's "$1000/network"?
[16:29:10] <mritun_> network setup
[16:29:28] <LeftWing> You need that network for PCs or for Sun Rays, though.
[16:29:29] <holcomb> discontinue providing sustenance
[16:29:30] <mritun_> routers, switches
[16:29:41] <LeftWing> So that's part of the bottom line.
[16:29:41] <Tempt> You don't for serial
[16:29:46] <LeftWing> Tempt: Quiet, you! :P
[16:29:47] <mritun_> well.. dekstops can work with shitty network
[16:29:48] <Tempt> you need a coupla 2511s
[16:29:53] <LeftWing> mritun_: Sun Rays can, too.
[16:29:53] <mritun_> Rays don't
[16:29:53] <Tempt> and some old serial terminals
[16:30:16] <mritun_> ok what would be the HW config for server ?
[16:30:17] <LeftWing> I use a pair of Sun Ray 100's up in the 10mbit hub segment in the McMullin building.  Works absolutely fine.
[16:30:34] <LeftWing> X2100 w/ Dual Core Opteron + a few GB of RAM.  Not especially expensive.
[16:30:46] <Tempt> people are using sunrays over wan links
[16:30:51] <Tempt> and at the end of DSL tails
[16:30:58] <LeftWing> Tempt: Indeed.  Lots of work has been put in to get the things to work over small pipes.
[16:31:01] <Tempt> If you're network is shittier than that, find a new job
[16:31:02] <quasi> the latest series of sunray doesn't need all that much bw
[16:31:05] <mritun_> hmm... I've seen them working on 100mbit... it works okish... but then it could be that they messed up
[16:31:39] <mritun_> I was thinking more about the lines of a gigabit LAN
[16:31:46] <Tempt> LeftWing: Boyd's been using a fullscreen session into SSGD this week for his dev work. Now, if you can cram a usable session over an 14 hop network, 10mbit ethernet is nothing
[16:31:49] <flyingparchment> deploying GE LAN is so cheap these days, why not?
[16:32:09] <mritun_> yeps
[16:32:18] <LeftWing> flyingparchment: Which makes 100Mbit even cheaper. ;)
[16:32:21] <mritun_> but it's true that it'd be same for desktops too.. so count that out
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[16:32:51] <mritun_> LeftWing: cable isn't much cheaper and most good mobos have onboard gigE card
[16:33:11] <mritun_> all we need is a decent gigE switch and we're set
[16:33:16] <flyingparchment> LeftWing: even managed GE switches aren't much more than FE now
[16:33:25] <LeftWing> flyingparchment: Arrr, probably not.
[16:33:38] <LeftWing> Regardless, in Sun Rays vs PCs -- the monitor is also a bottom line cost.
[16:33:45] <mritun_> managed switches are more in range of 1K+
[16:33:56] <mritun_> true
[16:34:15] <mritun_> so we come down to basically $300 + M/N
[16:34:20] <mritun_> N => total clients
[16:34:29] <mritun_> M => server cost
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[16:35:18] <LeftWing> And the server cost (for something like an X2100) is about that of a well-specced workstation, at least in the Edu world.
[16:35:40] <mritun_> well, lets keep it sane
[16:35:50] <mritun_> half gig for every client is about decent
[16:35:57] <LeftWing> Depends on what you're doing.
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[16:36:25] <Giaco> why I can't modify  /zones/mx2/lib/svc/method/amavis from the global ?
[16:36:38] <mritun_> well in any case, for 25 clients, 16 gig is about the bare minimum
[16:36:45] <LeftWing> We had 25 Sun Ray 100's backed off of an E450 at one point, with Windowmaker + Firefox on each running the library catalogue.  1GB of RAM in the server.
[16:36:53] <Tempt> man
[16:37:01] <Tempt> we had 100 users using citrix CDE sessions on a single T105
[16:37:11] <Tempt> As long as you're not a GNOME shop, it isn't too bad.
[16:37:18] <LeftWing> Indeed.
[16:37:59] <mritun_> Tempt: my dept was poor... they had ~500 people on a single server for mail/news/home dir/MATLAB/ANSYS/Maple
[16:38:10] <flyingparchment> back when i was in school we deployed NT 3.51 with Citrix WinFrame on 486's
[16:38:23] <mritun_> it was an old sparc 5... dual 233 MHz or so with 256 MB ram
[16:38:23] <flyingparchment> it worked great, i don't get why thin client hasn't caught on
[16:38:30] <LeftWing> If you're going for Kiosk mode apps, which I think is where the platform shines particularly brightly, then you can fit a bunch of session on one server without insane amounts of RAM.
[16:39:22] <mritun_> yeps
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[16:39:35] <LeftWing> Plus, you can keep the Sun Rays for a long time.
[16:39:38] <mritun_> right now the overhead is around $300
[16:39:49] <LeftWing> You need only recycle the server, and Opteron servers get cheaper all the time.
[16:40:08] <Tempt> True
[16:40:10] <mritun_> $400 for a decent machine with 1-2gig ram and decent cpu
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[16:40:19] <Tempt> The first sunrays off the line as still very good today.
[16:40:30] <mritun_> whereas the server would be close to $10K or more
[16:40:33] <LeftWing> We still have the Sun Ray 100's kicking around (once they were kicked out of the Library) and they make good terminals for the datacentre or more remote areas.
[16:40:36] <Cyrille> a bit bulky compared to the newer ones
[16:40:50] <mritun_> which comes to roughly $400/client
[16:41:19] <LeftWing> Again, the investment in desktops at $400/seat isn't a long-term thing, you end up recycling the more often than you probably ought to.
[16:41:26] <mritun_> but then we anyways need a beefy server
[16:41:36] <LeftWing> You can, however, just keep sticking Sun Ray servers into the FOG over time.
[16:41:44] <mritun_> hmm
[16:41:58] <LeftWing> And when they're too slow for Sun Ray use, they're probably still good for other servery tasks, whereas nobody wants an old Workstation.
[16:42:59] <mritun_> well one of the main points of getting a ray is that you can triple-play
[16:43:00] * nachox stabs stevel, he wont let him leave :P
[16:43:09] <mritun_> so even in a dev shop.. they make sense
[16:43:16] * stevel parries the stab, and deflects it
[16:43:17] <LeftWing> triple-play as in triple-head?
[16:43:30] <mritun_> nope... Solaris/Linux/Windows at same time
[16:43:55] <nachox> how are you stevel? when are you starting your new job?
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[16:44:01] <mritun_> we're mainly concerned about Solaris and Windows...
[16:44:08] <LeftWing> mritun_: Triple-head is fun, too -- https://jmc.sysmgr.org/users/leftwing/files/desk.jpg
[16:44:22] <mritun_> :P
[16:44:23] <stevel> nachox: sad to be leaving, but otherwise the usual excited/nervous as with any new job
[16:44:26] <stevel> i start october 2nd
[16:44:44] <Tempt> new job?
[16:44:47] <nachox> and not even a week of vacations between jobs?
[16:44:48] <Tempt> Whatchya doing?
[16:45:00] <stevel> nachox: nope, taking 1 day off :-P
[16:45:03] <Stric> LeftWing: I do 2x22"W at work instead.. 1m wide screen surface..
[16:45:16] <stevel> tempt: http://whacked.net/2007/09/17/we-only-part-to-meet-again/
[16:45:23] <Tempt> LeftWing: Is that actually your desk at home?
[16:45:27] <LeftWing> Tempt: Yes.
[16:45:38] <nachox> Tempt: he decided he just loved to wash cars so he got a related job
[16:45:40] <LeftWing> Stric: That's not bad -- I like the three-cell division of work space, though.
[16:46:01] <Tempt> stevel: Cool. I start my new job on the first.
[16:46:04] <mritun_> what do you use for that ?
[16:46:08] <stevel> tempt: where at?
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[16:46:16] <Tempt> stevel: Frontline (Sun reseller)
[16:46:17] <LeftWing> mritun_: For what?
[16:46:18] <mritun_> I mean graphics card etc
[16:46:31] <LeftWing> Oh, 3 * Sun Ray 2, a Sun Ray 1 up above and a Mac Mini on the TV.
[16:46:33] <flyingparchment> Tempt: can i /msg you for quotes? :D
[16:46:34] <mritun_> Matrox had a triple head gfx I remember
[16:47:33] <mritun_> ah... Rays... kewl setup
[16:47:49] <stevel> tempt: nice. congratulations :)
[16:47:55] <Tempt> flyingparchment: Ha, sure.
[16:47:56] <nachox> Tempt: when did you quit?
[16:48:08] <Tempt> nachox: Resigned last week. Just workin' out my notice period
[16:48:31] <Tempt> Don't think I'll volunteer for state government again any time soon.
[16:48:37] <nachox> Tempt: damn man, didnt know, you told me you were fed up but not like that :)
[16:49:26] <Tempt> Probably the shortest stint I've ever done in one place.
[16:49:29] <Tempt> Only started in April.
[16:50:57] <Tempt> LeftWing: Your desk is almost as messy as mine!
[16:51:10] <LeftWing> Tempt: I think it's gotten Even Messier since that photo.
[16:51:34] <Tempt> Oh, I can't even see my desk anymore
[16:51:45] <Tempt> This is why I used trackballs - no mousing surface left.
[16:51:46] <Tempt> :)
[16:51:53] <LeftWing> haha
[16:51:55] <nachox> i hate trackballs
[16:52:13] <flyingparchment> i moved my mouse to the left of the screen but it's already on the left side of the pad
[16:52:16] <flyingparchment> what i do?!?
[16:52:36] <Cyrille> buy a bigger pad.
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[16:52:54] <LeftWing> Or a ThinkPad Travel Keyboard With UltraNav!
[16:53:04] <sparcdr> hello
[16:53:05] <Tempt> my wrists can't take too much mouse use anyway.
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[16:53:49] <mritun_> Tempt: try switching wrists
[16:53:54] <Tempt> LeftWing: How's the palm + keyboard working out?
[16:54:03] <Tempt> mritun_: No, I just switched to trackballs. Fixed everything.
[16:54:13] <LeftWing> Tempt: It's pretty good, though I've not had much occasion to use it to be honest.
[16:54:16] <mritun_> my right one was shot... when I switched to left one it took around a week... and I just won't go back
[16:54:32] <Tempt> LeftWing: And your screen rice setup is almost the same as mine!
[16:54:36] <LeftWing> lol
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[16:55:48] <mritun_> umm... USB3 at 4 dot 8gbps ???
[16:56:05] <mritun_> fibre connections for masses :P
[16:57:03] * LeftWing decides that it is, in fact, sleep time.
[16:58:01] <Tempt> hmm
[16:58:08] <Tempt> actually, it is about that time ...
[16:58:16] <LeftWing> Tis.  Night folks.
[16:58:18] <mritun_> yep in .au
[16:58:22] <mritun_> night LeftWing
[16:58:25] *** stevel changes topic to "Latest SXCE 72 | Latest ON 73 | Starter kits:  http://get.opensolaris.org | Clipboard: http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/ | Twitter: twitter.com/opensolaris"
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[16:58:47] <stevel> onnv_73 is up
[16:59:04] <mritun_> what's new and noteworthy ?
[16:59:07] <sparcdr> hey
[16:59:17] <stevel> mritun_: there's a changelog in the download dir
[16:59:18] <sparcdr> NV73 you said?
[16:59:27] <stevel> no
[16:59:29] <stevel> onnv_73
[16:59:42] <stevel> the ON consolidation's delivery of build 73
[16:59:47] <sparcdr> yeah I know
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[16:59:55] <sparcdr> I just call it NV73 for short
[16:59:55] * quasi 75 is looking much more interesting
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[17:00:10] <quasi> +thinks
[17:00:11] <sparcdr> Was curious of the progress toward replacing the Solaris installer
[17:00:20] <sparcdr> seriously, it's gotta go
[17:00:25] <stevel> sparcdr: nevada is the code name of the release as a whole
[17:00:40] <sparcdr> steve, oh right, you mean kernel + libc + base utils
[17:00:45] <sparcdr> which is what ON is
[17:00:48] <stevel> yes. ON only. nothing else.
[17:01:00] <sparcdr> aight
[17:01:09] <_setuid_H> Please could somone help me with creating solaris bootable miniroot?
[17:01:11] <sparcdr> I'm using Solaris Developer Edition
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[17:01:28] <sparcdr> 04/07 I think which is ON 64 (Maybe it's 62)
[17:01:41] <stevel> 05/07 is 64a i think
[17:01:44] <richlowe> it's either 55b or 64a
[17:01:48] <richlowe> Yeah, what stevel said.
[17:01:49] <sparcdr> let me check
[17:01:54] <sparcdr> 64a sounds more right
[17:01:58] <richlowe> stevel: which still doesn't exist, btw.
[17:02:01] <sparcdr> anyways, I have a good question about the wifi drivers
[17:02:36] <stevel> richlowe: :-P take it up with dmarker
[17:02:54] <sparcdr> I have two cards, a PCMCIA Lucent Orinoco WaveLan 802.11b and a Cisco MPI-350 (With downgrade firmware) and it seems to be dropping off the AP when I run ifconfig iface dhcp on either of them
[17:02:55] <sparcdr> any ideas?
[17:02:58] <richlowe> stevel: oh, he got my opinion on that shit in explosive detail ;)
[17:03:15] <stevel> richlowe: then try jbeck ;)
[17:03:25] <flyingparchment> is calling US 800 numbers free with skype?
[17:03:31] <sparcdr> cool, my freebsd box is finally done portupgrading Xorg (Stupid modular Xorg has wayyy too many modules :P)
[17:03:38] <sparcdr> no flyingparchment
[17:03:39] <Stric> .:uggla:. stric:~>df -F lofs -P | wc -l
[17:03:40] <Stric> 930
[17:03:41] <stevel> sparcdr: did you email the laptop list where the wifi developers hang out?
[17:03:44] <sparcdr> it's like 1 cent
[17:03:47] <Stric> some newer solaris patches are interesting..
[17:03:49] <sparcdr> yeah I did stevel
[17:03:54] <flyingparchment> sparcdr: 1c/minute?
[17:03:58] <sparcdr> well, specifically laptop-discuss mailing list
[17:04:03] <sparcdr> flyingparchment, for all calls
[17:04:07] <flyingparchment> yeah
[17:04:10] <sparcdr> 1-800 if you have skypeout is free
[17:04:11] <sparcdr> they pay for the call
[17:04:20] <flyingparchment> that's what i mean
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[17:04:28] <sparcdr> you need skype's premium service for calling landlines
[17:04:29] <flyingparchment> i am using skypeout to call an 800 number
[17:04:34] <sparcdr> it's free
[17:04:38] <flyingparchment> okay neat
[17:04:51] <sparcdr> my friend has asterisk and softphone setup, and he handles 12/mo plus per call charges
[17:04:59] <sparcdr> but I am free to call
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[17:05:06] <flyingparchment> my mobile is like $1/minute for US calls, heh.
[17:05:10] <sparcdr> this is from a regular landline though
[17:05:13] <flyingparchment> which sucks because nearly all my calls are to the US
[17:05:18] <sparcdr> haha sheesh
[17:05:21] <mritun_> $1/min !!!!!
[17:05:27] <sparcdr> standard is 10c for landline (AT&T and Verizon) from inside the US
[17:05:28] <mritun_> where are you man ?
[17:05:31] <flyingparchment> UK
[17:05:35] <sparcdr> oh
[17:05:39] <sparcdr> makes sense
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[17:05:43] <sparcdr> use Skype whenever you can
[17:05:44] <sparcdr> :)
[17:05:59] <mritun_> mine are rougly... um 16 US cents/min from mobile
[17:06:00] 
[17:06:07] <sparcdr> so anyone here run wlan on Nevada?
[17:06:31] <sparcdr> I have an Atheros in here, but my OpenSolaris machine is a Thinkpad T30
[17:06:33] <mritun_> sparcdr: I do
[17:06:36] <sparcdr> what card?
[17:06:58] <mritun_> sparcdr: centrino... 2nd gen
[17:07:19] <mritun_> 23xx series b/g
[17:07:43] <mritun_> sorry 2200
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[17:11:42] <sparcdr> sorry, iwl you mean
[17:11:57] <sparcdr> Anyone here have a WaveLan or Cisco Aironet?
[17:12:46] <mritun_> sparcdr: iwi
[17:13:07] <quasi> sparcdr: in theory, I've got an aironet b card lying around somewhere
[17:13:14] <sparcdr> Mini-PCI Atheros cards cost too much, and I don't need G or N on this particular notebook.  I have two routers setup, one with pre-N/G and WPA2/aes (2.4GHz) and one without WEP/WPA for compatibility
[17:13:25] <sparcdr> quasi, mini-pci or pcmcia?
[17:13:45] <sparcdr> Mine is in a Thinkpad, it's mini-pci downgraded to recommended firmware (5.003)
[17:13:50] <quasi> sparcdr: actually both now that I think of it
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[17:14:05] <sparcdr> quasi, try it out with the stock nevada driver
[17:14:09] <sparcdr> I'll be here
[17:14:28] <stevel> sparcdr: they're like $30 on ebay
[17:14:36] <quasi> sparcdr: not very likely - they don't fit well in my desktop
[17:14:37] <stevel> (the mini-pci atheros cards)
[17:14:43] <sparcdr> I'll try the ones I downloaded, they're newer, but both cards are dropping off the AP when dhcp is ran, and static isn't working, various route issues and state problems
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[17:15:08] <sparcdr> stevel, not worth the little money I have, considering I don't need G in this notebook
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[17:18:17] <sparcdr> I have two cards, neither work, and both are supported by the OpenSolaris laptop community, so I don't know what to say, except it's unnecessary to go out and buy another card, when I have two that should work.  I got the WaveLan to work once.  IMHO the network front-end is very obtrusive, it hogs the card while you're trying to manually associate it using wificonfig.  There needs to be an option to disable the GUI wifi daemon on JDS.  I
[17:18:18] <sparcdr> think that's the problem, stupid daemon keeps trying to do the association when I need it to be done manually.  Let me kill it off and see if I can get it working.
[17:18:42] <mritun_> sparcdr: are you sure the AP is alright ?
[17:18:56] <sparcdr> yeah reset to factory, tried 64-bit and 128-bit wep too
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[17:19:09] <mritun_> sparcdr: some AP's don't like mismatched packet sizes for example
[17:19:10] <sparcdr> ap name is "dlink" and I use wificonfig -i iface connect dlink
[17:19:25] <sparcdr> But that's not what drops it
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[17:19:33] <sparcdr> it's when I run ifconfig iface dhcp when it drops from the AP
[17:19:39] <sparcdr> I can run showstatus and it says medium signal
[17:19:58] <sparcdr> Until I run dhcp on it.  Static configuration doesn't seem to stick either.
[17:19:59] <mritun_> if it's a dlink... I'd say it might be a problem with it. I have a dlink here and don't use it because it just doesn't work right
[17:20:19] <sparcdr> Well I am using an Apple Airport Extreme Pre-N, but I'm using WPA2
[17:20:24] <mritun_> also you *might* have something around that is polluting the channel
[17:20:28] <sparcdr> neither support WPA natively
[17:20:30] <mritun_> try hooking on a different channel
[17:20:47] <sparcdr> I could try channel 11, the N router is on 6 I think (They use Atheros cards in them)
[17:21:03] <sparcdr> let me check, I understand where you're going
[17:21:12] <sparcdr> 2.4GHz band is being hogged
[17:21:17] <mritun_> turn off the N for a while... it's ultra wide band... known to fuck b & g nicely
[17:21:32] <sparcdr> I have N capable systems here
[17:21:42] <mritun_> thats ok... for a while
[17:21:45] <sparcdr> I have two routers because the Dlink sucks, and because the new one has N
[17:21:50] <sparcdr> Everyone here uses the N
[17:21:55] <sparcdr> Can't disconnect it, and that's not a solution
[17:22:00] <mritun_> b would be killed outright in an N environment
[17:22:03] <sparcdr> You can't run compatibility mode on it either
[17:22:19] <sparcdr> Only G is N compatible
[17:22:23] <mritun_> and g just *barely* works
[17:22:29] <sparcdr> It works fine
[17:22:38] <mritun_> I mean in an N environment
[17:22:43] <sparcdr> But yeah, B is definitely mangled
[17:22:53] <sparcdr> It's using 2.4GHz spectrum, when true N is 5GHz
[17:23:00] <sparcdr> so that's not causing it
[17:23:28] <mritun_> one sign would be that reported signal strength changes dramatically from time to time
[17:23:29] <sparcdr> Strange thing though, the pcwl card sees the N ap even though it's B
[17:23:37] <sparcdr> It doesn't change much actually
[17:23:45] <sparcdr> It's full signal on all G clients
[17:24:04] <mritun_> signal strength is meaningless...
[17:24:15] <sparcdr> It handles 80% of capable bandwidth
[17:24:16] <mritun_> only thing that indicates anything is change in it
[17:24:21] <sparcdr> It doesn't
[17:24:32] <sparcdr> The users are spread out 200ft and have no problem
[17:24:43] <sparcdr> I can see the N/G ap from time to time, maybe wpa_supplicant will work
[17:24:43] <mritun_> hmm
[17:25:02] <sparcdr> remember it's on 2.4GHz mode
[17:25:13] <sparcdr> I'll tell you if changing channels fixes it
[17:25:18] <sparcdr> It's a packet drop my guess
[17:25:23] <mritun_> I doubt the b cards have much of a chance
[17:25:31] <sparcdr> When it associates it's fine and dandy but the dhcp packets kill it
[17:26:00] <sparcdr> mritun_, give me a few min, if I get it working, I'll tell you what the setup is
[17:26:05] <mritun_> well there's no encryption nothing
[17:26:09] <sparcdr> nope
[17:26:19] <mritun_> so there it may as well just "assume" it's connected
[17:26:42] <sparcdr> it says it is, but that's a misnomer.  I got it working once though with the pcmcia wavelan.
[17:26:43] <mritun_> only when something goes over the air, it'd have a chance figuring out that the connection isn't really good
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[17:27:00] <sparcdr> Look, don't assume it won't work
[17:27:05] <mritun_> :P
[17:27:13] <mritun_> nope... I'm optimistic that it would work
[17:27:17] <sparcdr> have high hopes and then go cry when it all blows up
[17:27:24] <sparcdr> that's the way of life
[17:27:25] <mritun_> :D
[17:27:45] <mritun_> the only thing is it may not be as beautiful as we would like it to work
[17:27:45] <sparcdr> yeah N/G is channel 6... ah crap there's the problem lol
[17:27:48] <sparcdr> dlink defaults to 6
[17:27:52] <sparcdr> :/
[17:28:09] <mritun_> eg. I use the crappy dlink to connect my laptop because iwi doesn't support WPA on the netgear
[17:28:11] <sparcdr> resetting that hunk of junk now brb
[17:28:19] <sparcdr> WPA doesn't work on most routers :P
[17:28:36] <sparcdr> Kill me for buying an Apple router, but it has N and WPA2/AES works perfect
[17:28:41] <mritun_> and *SOMEHOW* my roommate's laptopn (XP, 2200b/g) won't connect when I change the netgear to WEP
[17:29:04] <sparcdr> As opposed to the last 2 routers I've had, D-Link, Netgear
[17:29:05] <mritun_> so I'm stuck with a strange frankenstein wifi setup :-/
[17:29:11] <sparcdr> That sucks mritun_
[17:29:12] <sparcdr> :P
[17:29:47] <sparcdr> like my nickname :P
[17:30:14] <mritun_> heh
[17:30:27] <sparcdr> unfortunately I've been called drcraps before :/
[17:30:40] <mritun_> :D
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[17:32:02] <cyborg--> so, i had some success with opensolaris originally,  so I placed a solaris 10u4 machine online.    my intent was to use it as an iscsi target backed by zfs
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[17:32:38] <cyborg--> anyway... i had this issue , where... zfs basically takes a .....     originally i thought it was the iscsi target code locking up, but   if i type zfs list  it hangs,  the machine would need to be rebooted to make zfs work again
[17:33:16] <sparcdr> What's your setup cyborg--?
[17:33:53] <cyborg--> right now,  the server is an ibm x345 , and I have one EXP400 connected with 14x300GB U320
[17:34:03] <sparcdr> There are some bugs in a number of drivers in relation to iSCSI which result in that.  Did you check the known issues section of the release notes?
[17:34:06] <cyborg--> the zfs is  paired,  7  mirrors of two drives each
[17:34:24] <cyborg--> i am using the e1000g driver for the onboard nics on the x345
[17:34:48] <sparcdr> alright, doubt that those are bad
[17:34:51] <cyborg--> so there are some known bugs that the iscsi target code does not play nice and takes down the zfs?
[17:35:00] <sparcdr> yeah cyborg--
[17:35:03] <cyborg--> i am using jumbo frames,    cisco switch....
[17:35:20] <cyborg--> it works awesome for varying times until suddenly... no i/o can get in/out
[17:35:23] <sparcdr> Have you tried Solaris Developer Edition?
[17:35:32] <sparcdr> Sun can provide support for it
[17:36:17] <cyborg--> I have a sun support contract for this  10u4 machine
[17:36:32] <sparcdr> Talk to them about the problem if you have support
[17:36:37] <cyborg--> i intend to replace it with a x4500
[17:36:38] <sparcdr> That's what it's for
[17:36:59] <mritun_> cyborg--: if you can just try b72 and see if the issue is resolved there... you might be able to get a patch from support guys
[17:37:36] <mritun_> but anyways, without a stack trace when zfs is hung might delay the diagnosis
[17:37:40] <sparcdr> cyborg--, at least try a newer build
[17:37:45] <cyborg--> okay i will do that,
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[17:38:18] <sparcdr> http://www.opensolaris.org/ -> Download -> ON Consolidation
[17:39:03] <asyd> anyone who works on rbridge community by chance? I'm wondering if the implementation have already started
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[17:39:59] <mritun_> oh cyborg--
[17:40:02] <mritun_> here ?
[17:40:10] <cyborg--> hi
[17:40:30] <mritun_> beware that Nevada build 72 might have more recent version of zfs
[17:40:53] <mritun_> do NOT upgrade your zfs, or you won't be able to use Solaris u4 again on that
[17:41:04] <cyborg--> yeah i have to specifically run the zpool command to upgrade it right
[17:41:10] <mritun_> yep
[17:41:17] <cyborg--> does the new  version by any chance implement   removing devices? :)
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[17:41:38] <mritun_> naah, I don't think it's planned till year end anyways
[17:42:09] <cyborg--> i have this EXP400 set up as mirros so when i  put the x4500 online (if i proceed to buy it),  i can just do drive replaces
[17:42:23] <mritun_> but there's bunch of other neat stuff like separate intent log which might be handy
[17:42:46] <mritun_> x4500 aka thumper ?
[17:42:49] <cyborg--> yea
[17:42:52] <mritun_> uh
[17:42:58] <mritun_> don't think so :P
[17:43:05] <cyborg--> don't think so what
[17:43:21] <mritun_> that you'd be able to just migrate the zpool on that
[17:43:32] <cyborg--> sure I will?
[17:43:40] <cyborg--> i will   export the  zpool on the existing machine
[17:43:48] <mritun_> not sure... someone might have a better idea
[17:43:51] <cyborg--> and import it on the thumper,  which i will install a u320 low-profile scsi card in
[17:43:56] <mritun_> ah
[17:44:05] <mritun_> I thought something else :-/
[17:44:18] <cyborg--> then do individual drive replaces until i am not using any of the  scsi drives outside the machine, then i just unhook it
[17:44:31] <mritun_> that you're talking about migrating from this setup to using internal thumper drives
[17:44:34] <mritun_> silly me
[17:44:39] <cyborg--> then i should be using 14 of the staa drives inside then i can just add the rest of the  drives
[17:44:45] <cyborg--> oh hahaha
[17:44:46] <mritun_> omg
[17:44:55] <mritun_> I'd suggest not doing that
[17:44:59] <cyborg--> why
[17:45:24] <mritun_> the best practises guides have a section on recommended setups on thumper
[17:45:33] <mritun_> and you won't get that in this way
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[17:46:13] <cyborg--> i dont use raidz  ,  i prefer performance,  so i intended to have 23 mirrors of 2 drives each
[17:46:13] <mritun_> and anyways you'd end up just copying all that data anyways... so whether you do it youself, or zfs does it, hardly makes a difference
[17:46:20] <cyborg--> and the other 2 drives of course for mirrored for the install
[17:46:37] <Stric> cyborg--: then it should be no problem..
[17:47:11] <mritun_> cyborg--: why do you think mirror of 2 would work better than a single mirror of 23 drive stripe ?
[17:47:35] <mritun_> across controllers doe redundacy against controller failures (there are 7 of them in there)
[17:47:39] <Stric> mritun_: 1) your version isn't supported by zfs.. 2) it has worse reliability
[17:48:00] <flyingparchment> Stric: do you do any multipathing on your infortrend stuff?
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[17:48:57] <mritun_> Stric:  just pulled it from thin air... my point was that if performance is aim, then testing for best solution would be more productive than assuming that same setup would be ideal on a strange beast like thumper
[17:49:37] <cyborg--> i think that 2drive mirrors should give the  best performance/redundancy regardless the hardware
[17:49:56] <mritun_> there is more to that
[17:49:57] <cyborg--> it should get the most out of the hardware for read&write.    the best behing one huge  non-redundant stripe
[17:50:35] <mritun_> mirrors should be preferably across controllers for best results, and your "zpool replace 1-by-1" won't take of that
[17:50:48] <cyborg--> well sure it will
[17:51:01] <cyborg--> i just make sure each two-disk mirror has disks from unique controllers
[17:51:12] <mritun_> hmm true, you can do that
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[17:51:22] <Stric> mritun_: mirror(23stripe,23stripe) will at best survive 1 disk failure..  stripe(2mirror,2mirror,2mirror,...) will at best handle 23 disk failures
[17:51:27] <cyborg--> i think they are already laid out like that,   i dont know the details but i think in the chasis  no sidebyside drives use the same controller
[17:51:30] <Stric> mritun_: with the same performance etc
[17:52:05] <mritun_> 23+23 is extreme on other end
[17:52:29] <mritun_> but I think 23 failure redundancy on 2x23 setup is other extreme
[17:52:40] <mritun_> and that 23 failures are "best case"
[17:52:51] <mritun_> 2 failures from same mirror would fuck the setup
[17:52:52] <Stric> it is.. but with mirror(23stripe,23stripe), then as soon as one disk fails, you have no redundancy at all
[17:53:03] <Stric> one more disk failure from the active disks and you're toast
[17:53:04] <sparcdr> alright I'm back
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[17:53:18] <mritun_> so actually 2x23 setup doesn't buy you much
[17:53:30] <flyingparchment> mirroring stripes is stupid, no-one does that
[17:53:37] <flyingparchment> you want to do striping on top of 2-disk mirrors
[17:53:42] <sparcdr> hi
[17:53:46] <mritun_> as soon as 1 drive fails you *HAVE* to replace it, or you risk losing the other in the mirror
[17:53:49] <Stric> with the other way, if 1 disk fails, there is only 1 out of 45 chance that your raid will die
[17:53:52] <sparcdr> flyingparchment, isn't that RAID-10?
[17:53:55] <mritun_> so 2x23 is no better than 23x2
[17:53:58] <flyingparchment> sparcdr: yes
[17:54:02] <cyborg--> you can also do  2x22 and have hotspares
[17:54:07] <flyingparchment> sparcdr: whereas striping over mirrors is raid 0+1
[17:54:08] <cyborg--> sorry 22x2
[17:54:09] <sparcdr> yeah never seen anyone use RAID-10
[17:54:14] <cyborg--> i use raid10
[17:54:16] <mritun_> cyborg--: hot spares take a while to resilver
[17:54:21] <cyborg--> all my ibm servers are raid10
[17:54:23] <sparcdr> Personally I've used RAID-1 and RAID-5 in servers
[17:54:27] <flyingparchment> sparcdr: raid10 is striping over 2-disk mirrors
[17:54:28] <mritun_> and thats when the other has high chance of failure too !
[17:54:31] <sparcdr> cyborg--, overkill with ZFS
[17:54:35] <cyborg--> totally yes
[17:54:38] <flyingparchment> that's fine, it gives great performance, only downside is less usable space than raid5
[17:54:43] <cyborg--> which is why i am going to zfs.   right now, raid stuff is costing me so much money
[17:55:02] <sparcdr> flyingparchment, which is why my old server had 6 disks, 3 for RAID-5 and 2 for RAID-1
[17:55:05] <flyingparchment> mirroring over stripes is raid0+1, that is stupid because if you lose disks from the same stripe, you're toast
[17:55:13] <sparcdr> RAID-1 was boot drives, and RAID-5 storage :)
[17:55:34] <mritun_> basically what I'm arriving at it is, stripe over 2-way mirrors is still at risk with just 1 disk failure
[17:55:35] <sparcdr> was good enough for me, the boot drives are less costly to have take a crap than storage
[17:55:39] <cyborg--> and i mean,  if promise m500i's with  14x500GB RAID-10  can handle my  i/o workload,  i assume a thumper can handle it
[17:55:52] <sparcdr> cyborg--, I'd say so, more than most systems
[17:55:59] <flyingparchment> our storage is mostly database so we don't do raid5
[17:56:02] <sparcdr> It's specifically designed for speed
[17:56:09] <flyingparchment> it's either raid10 or raid0 (for slaves, unimportant storage)
[17:56:18] <sparcdr> haha raid-0 xD
[17:56:20] <cyborg--> the most important thing for me actually is thin provisioning
[17:56:23] <sparcdr> sounds like my desktops :)
[17:56:34] <sparcdr> most important thing to me is my file archive
[17:56:43] <sparcdr> which is no raid, no servers here :/
[17:56:46] <flyingparchment> we have like 5 db slaves running raid0, if one fails it doesn't matter, we just remove it from the pool until it's fixed
[17:56:47] <delewis> RAID5 is fine for databases, provided it's mostly read-intensive, rather than write.
[17:57:03] <flyingparchment> delewis: we have a high update rate and a higher read write
[17:57:04] <sparcdr> need to get another disk and lease a x64 system from sun, seriously
[17:57:21] <delewis> flyingparchment: ouch. Worst case possible. :-)
[17:57:21] <sparcdr> Is it possible to get a decent x64 system from Sun for under 100/mo?
[17:57:33] <delewis> flyingparchment: all on the same storage?
[17:57:39] <quasi> sparcdr: x2200 is fairly cheap
[17:57:48] <flyingparchment> delewis: if we didn't use shitty opterons with 6 disks, the update rate would be lower in comparison to the storage capability
[17:57:48] <sparcdr> quasi, dual core opteron right?
[17:57:59] <flyingparchment> delewis: but we refuse to change to higher end storage
[17:58:00] <quasi> yeah, but room for two
[17:58:04] <sparcdr> I'm looking for dual core x64 with 2GB from them
[17:58:11] <sparcdr> but for 100/mo
[17:58:24] <quasi> sparcdr: x2100 is your best bet then
[17:58:33] <sparcdr> I don't need dual socket :P
[17:58:39] <quasi> sparcdr: x2100 is your best bet then
[17:58:41] <sparcdr> Quad cores are available anyways
[17:58:44] <sparcdr> alright quasi
[17:58:52] <delewis> flyingparchment: yeah, storage is a huge issue for that kind of workload. I'm used to working with OLTP workloads and you generally seperate that out from the decision-support/analytics stuff, as that's mostly read-intensive.
[17:58:55] <sparcdr> just wondering if anyone has leased one off them before
[17:58:56] <yatesy> hey all, how is the dom0 xen support in opensolaris these days? Pretty reliable? I'd like to use HVM if possible
[17:59:05] <sparcdr> yatesy, use zones
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[17:59:20] <yatesy> would like to run non-solaris machines too :)
[17:59:24] <quasi> sparcdr: the x2100 is so cheap that I doubt leasing is worth the trouble
[17:59:35] <sparcdr> I don't have 1400 bucks on me :P
[18:00:03] <flyingparchment> delewis: everything we do is oltp ;-)
[18:00:11] <holcomb> i was unable to get the hvm stuff working but that was a mobo issue
[18:00:12] <sparcdr> rather not wait 6 months either, see that's about how much I got left over each month :p
[18:00:33] <quasi> sparcdr: go to your bank and borrow the money instead
[18:00:43] <yatesy> holcomb: you had it running pretty well tho?
[18:01:24] <dme> yatesy: The last binary xVM build was nv66 based. The bits went back into onnv yesterday, so the next binary drop is probably a couple of weeks away. You can, of course, build it all yourself now.
[18:01:30] <sparcdr> quasi, I was thinking more than 1400 dollar variant though, with a few upgrades
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[18:01:40] <sparcdr> let me go on their store and see how much it'd be
[18:02:09] <holcomb> i didn't do anything serious with it really...
[18:02:15] <holcomb> i should have just kept quiet :)
[18:02:21] <yatesy> dme: sorry for the newbie questions but what's onnv? I've not heard that term before
[18:02:26] <quasi> sparcdr: for the real money saver, buy memory and disks elsewhere
[18:02:33] <sparcdr> I know quasi
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[18:02:54] <sparcdr> Still like Sun's quality, have good experience with U80 and Ultra-2's
[18:03:08] <dme> yatesy: No problem. It's the name of the repository for the ongoing opensolaris development repository ("ON Nevada").
[18:03:11] <sparcdr> but I don't need SPARC, have a T2000 remotely anyways
[18:03:31] <sparcdr> I meant a workstation/desktop not server btw
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[18:03:50] <sparcdr> Ultra-20 it is :P
[18:03:51] <yatesy> ah ok, so it's like even more cutting edge than opensolaris is itself kinda thing?
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[18:04:03] <sparcdr> yatesy, sounds dangerous (and fun)
[18:04:18] <yatesy> heh
[18:04:18] <Fish-> hello
[18:04:32] <dme> yatesy: The OpenSolaris binary bits you get are built from that repository (and some others, for X11, etc.). The binary bits lag the source repository a little, due to QA, etc.
[18:04:39] <yatesy> OpenSolaris "sounds dangerous" edition. I like it!
[18:04:44] <sparcdr> haha
[18:04:57] <sparcdr> yeah, what dme said, it's already somewhat tested, just not in the consolidation
[18:05:16] <yatesy> dme: gotcha, thanks for the clarity
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[18:09:44] <sparcdr> how much would the monthly payment be on an Ultra-20 M2 (Medium) at $3358.00? (Just curious)
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[18:10:46] <delewis> sparcdr: that's completely dependent on several other factors.
[18:10:49] <delewis> namely, your credit.
[18:11:03] <delewis> if you have bad credit, your monthly least payment will be more.
[18:11:07] <sparcdr> good credit
[18:11:09] <delewis> s/least/lease/
[18:11:21] <delewis> and how much money you put down initially.
[18:11:34] <sparcdr> Okay, say I put down $500
[18:11:37] <delewis> in any case, this is something you should talk to to Sun Sales about.
[18:11:48] <sparcdr> ok
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[18:13:50] <yatesy> dme: how would I find out when these new xen components get put into mainstream opensolaris? monitor the onnv-notify list?
[18:14:31] <dme> yatesy: They are in there now (yesterday). If you want to install the bits from a binary distribution, you'll need something based on build 75 or later.
[18:14:43] <dme> If you're willing to compile it all up yourself, you could start today.
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[18:15:35] <dme> I'm not sure what the next SXDE build will be (they are usually stable). SXCE releases are more regular - probably a useful one with xVM in a couple of weeks.
[18:16:03] <sarahj> dme... next SXDE is scheduled for December/Jan
[18:16:06] <sarahj> as of today.
[18:16:26] <dme> sarahj: Do you know which build it will derive from?
[18:16:32] <sarahj> in between though we make changes and do bug fixes so any build between can have new stuff in it.
[18:16:38] <sarahj> 78/79 I think.
[18:16:52] <dme> Okay, so the xVM bits should be there.
[18:16:56] <sarahj> yes.
[18:17:01] <richlowe> Yeah, they'll be there.
[18:17:04] <sparcdr> o.o
[18:17:05] <richlowe> ON's schedule says 78/79
[18:17:28] <richlowe> JDS should end up landing the GNOME 2.20.1 based bits before then too.
[18:17:50] <sparcdr> so Developer Express 04/07 is snv_64a, in response to my question about wlan support
[18:17:51] <richlowe> dme: it'll probably be a month and a half before an SX:CE with your bits in.
[18:17:52] <sarahj> yep, it does... sometimes the build numbers can move out, depending on how things are going, but it will definitely include xVM
[18:17:56] <richlowe> dme: we don't have the snv_73 bits yet.
[18:18:03] <nachox> indiana is to be released on march next year?
[18:18:20] <dme> richlowe: I guess I'm just optimistic ;)
[18:18:39] <richlowe> dme: the delay *normally* works out to being between a week and two weeks after media hits nana.eng
[18:18:56] <richlowe> discounting respins, which add <time>+2 days each, at least on average based on when I payed attention to it.
[18:19:21] <sparcdr> got wifi working with pcan (MPI-350)
[18:19:22] <sarahj> SXDE3 launches on Sun, 9/23. Which is build 70a.
[18:19:37] <flyingparchment> "sxde 3"?
[18:19:41] <sparcdr> finally :P
[18:19:44] <flyingparchment> does it have its own version number now?
[18:19:48] <sparcdr> stupid wavelan no go
[18:19:59] <sarahj> Solaris Express Developer Edition
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[18:20:09] <richlowe> flyingparchment: in the same spirit as '10u4', you need a number to call it before you know what the date will end up as...
[18:20:44] <richlowe> it's always had its own twisted "pretend to be a real release" MM/YY versioning.
[18:21:19] <sparcdr> Just had to change the channel to 11 instead of 6 so it doesn't conflict with the N/G router.  wificonfig -i pcan0 connect apname then ifconfig pcan0 inet 192.168.0.2 up then route add default gateway 192.168.0.1 (dhcp still doesn't want to work) and the router pings now
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[18:21:34] <sarahj> its based on the build that is considered a 'go' for SXDE. b70 was the main build, 2 respins later we have a winner. Thus, b70b. No version though... just b70b.
[18:21:57] <richlowe> sarahj: from what I can tell, I think RE are now adjusting /etc/release to look more like a real release, too.
[18:22:00] <sparcdr> sarahj, main changes between 64a and b70b?
[18:22:03] <richlowe> at least, they adjusted the CE builds to call themselves CE
[18:22:15] <sarahj> new installer
[18:22:16] <richlowe> I wouldn't be shocked to find DE announce itself there as SDX MM/YY snv_70b
[18:22:21] <sarahj> new tools
[18:22:23] <sparcdr> sarahj, anaconda?
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[18:22:33] <sarahj> no, Dwarf, New Solaris installer bits integrated
[18:22:41] <flyingparchment> dwarf caiman isn't new :(
[18:22:42] <sparcdr> I've already posted on discussions about the installer needing 768MB, it's ludacris
[18:22:48] <sarahj> look at the Caiman project page on opensolaris.
[18:22:55] <flyingparchment> that was in 70, the crappy one with no features
[18:22:55] <sparcdr> alright sarahj
[18:22:56] <sarahj> what do you mean its not new?
[18:23:13] <g4lt-sb100> oh god help us, another wave of "where is $PACKAGE?" questions because apparently the caiman installer fails to differentiate install types
[18:23:26] <sarahj> exactly... it is new.
[18:23:30] <flyingparchment> sarahj: i installed sxce/sxde a couple weeks ago and it had caiman
[18:23:34] <sarahj> install types?
[18:23:35] <sparcdr> Is there going to be an option to select software on Developer Editions?
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[18:23:50] <sarahj> right... but it takes us a while to get it officially released.
[18:23:56] <g4lt-sb100> sparcdr, wht did I just finish saying?
[18:24:01] <sarahj> sparcdr... not for a while.
[18:24:18] <flyingparchment> dwarf caiman was a mistake, now everyone hates caiman because it has no features :P
[18:24:23] <sarahj> we are working on the next set of bits that will allow customization of software.
[18:24:41] <sarahj> dwarf caiman was not a mistake. It was built for the audience intended.
[18:24:55] <sarahj> and was a first step towards a new installer. takes a while to get a new installer done.
[18:24:56] <sarahj> and integrated.
[18:24:57] <flyingparchment> maybe it was, but it was included in SXCE as well
[18:24:58] <sparcdr> g4lt-sb100, I was referring to current DE not upcoming
[18:25:05] <flyingparchment> i don't think SXCE was the intended audience
[18:25:17] <sarahj> SXDE was the audience.
[18:25:19] <WickedWicky> SATA-only on x86 surely wasnt the intended audience
[18:25:20] <sarahj> and it is only offered in that path.
[18:25:28] <WickedWicky> neither were dual boot people
[18:25:31] <sparcdr> WickedWicky, yeah that's pretty bad
[18:25:32] <flyingparchment> sarahj: no, SXCE has it too
[18:25:36] <flyingparchment> sarahj: as default
[18:25:37] <sarahj> THe sata only is not an installer issue.
[18:25:48] <sparcdr> Plus the workarounds for EFI systems and fdisk problems ;/
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[18:25:53] <sarahj> yes, SXCE has it, but for the SXDE installer path.
[18:26:01] <flyingparchment> that is the default one
[18:26:04] <sarahj> It is the developer edition installer
[18:26:12] <sarahj> it is the default one, because SXDE is the default.
[18:26:14] <flyingparchment> hmm, appserver is taking like 10 minutes to start
[18:26:31] <sparcdr> flyingparchment, what build?
[18:26:36] <flyingparchment> S10u3
[18:26:57] <sarahj> dual booting stuff is again not totally an installer issue. But, we are fixing the issues that cause the dual booting failures.
[18:27:00] <sarahj> that will be in SXDE4
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[18:27:04] <flyingparchment> also i can't log in :)
[18:27:11] <flyingparchment> appserver broke my computer :(
[18:28:08] <sparcdr> haha
[18:28:08] <sparcdr> xD
[18:28:21] <sparcdr> drop it into maintainence mode and disable it
[18:29:12] <WickedWicky> sarahj, might not be an installer issue but a strange fact is then that the old installer works without problems
[18:29:36] <sparcdr> I'm still running U3 myself, bandwidth limitations in all, and am waiting until they have media available for U4 (Have they updated the media kit to U4?)
[18:29:52] <richlowe> g4lt-sb100: the SDX installer as it is now installs everything, always.
[18:29:59] <richlowe> g4lt-sb100: so it's unlikely anyone would have to hunt for packages.
[18:30:00] <WickedWicky> anyway, I will keep trying the new installer with every release that comes out, see what changed :D
[18:30:03] <sparcdr> richlowe, annoying
[18:30:06] <richlowe> that's one of the reasons it's dumbed down so heavily.
[18:30:14] <sparcdr> but so is package management (Oxymoron) on Solaris
[18:30:42] <sparcdr> I can understand it given the number of packages on SDX
[18:30:57] <sparcdr> heavens bless Blastwave and pkgsrc >_>
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[18:31:56] <WickedWicky> Ello sommerfeld
[18:32:26] <sparcdr> brb
[18:32:39] <sparcdr> the new Caiman installer's pretty shiny
[18:33:19] <stevel> and anything shiny is better!
[18:33:34] <WickedWicky> I feel sarcasm in the air
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[18:33:49] <sparcdr> JDS's GNOME theme beats any stock GNOME theme, that's for sure
[18:34:10] <sparcdr> Wondering why they hid gconf-editor from the menus
[18:35:33] <sparcdr> blah stupid SDX (64a) wlan drivers are teh suck :( gonna try 0.3 ones
[18:35:35] <nachox> jds looks better than any other gnome implementation i saw
[18:36:42] <sparcdr> I said stock gnome themes, there's a few decent/good ones, not exactly comparable to jds directly, but then again, it's all about being ready, shiny, and good out of the box
[18:38:56] <mritun_> why do I need to use SS11 to build ON and stuff ?
[18:39:14] <mritun_> and can't use shiney new SS12
[18:39:19] <sparcdr> mritun_, because libc changes
[18:39:30] <WickedWicky> you can use SS12
[18:39:31] <sparcdr> backporting snv stuff takes time
[18:39:38] <WickedWicky> the results are just not guaranteed to work
[18:39:40] <WickedWicky> I use SS12
[18:39:56] <WickedWicky> add __SSNEXT; export __SSNEXT to your environmental file
[18:39:59] <sparcdr> Sorry?  SS12?  Solaris 12 is in developing xD
[18:40:07] <WickedWicky> Sun Studio 12
[18:40:08] <sparcdr> *development
[18:40:08] <WickedWicky> no?
[18:40:11] <sparcdr> oh
[18:40:14] <sparcdr> sorry
[18:40:16] <sparcdr> I'm kinda odd
[18:40:17] <sparcdr> :P
[18:40:21] <WickedWicky> I am dutch
[18:40:26] <sparcdr> im american
[18:40:27] <sparcdr> ;/
[18:40:27] <flyingparchment> you can use SS12, but the build will fail
[18:40:29] <flyingparchment> so don't
[18:40:38] <WickedWicky> doesnt fail here though!
[18:40:40] <sparcdr> Sun Studio rocks though :o
[18:40:41] <mritun_> oh k
[18:41:09] <sparcdr> SDX has Sun Studio 12... which is NV64a, so why is it that hard?
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[18:42:01] <sparcdr> or did 70+ break things?
[18:42:39] <mritun_> actually I use ss12 for my development
[18:42:53] <mritun_> but I'd like to hack on ON etc... for whichI'd need ss11
[18:43:00] <sparcdr> oh, right
[18:43:10] <Pietro_S> sparcdr: ss12 is included, but that doesn't tell anything what compiler was used to compile kernel
[18:43:14] <mritun_> keeping them both together without one stepping on another intimidated me
[18:43:21] <mritun_> so I didn't bother installing ss11
[18:43:43] <sparcdr> yeah, I know the feeling, my SGI Octane2 has MIPSpro and two versions of GCC
[18:43:44] <sparcdr> xD
[18:43:46] <mritun_> if the compiler breaks, I'd be screwed
[18:43:50] <richlowe> sparcdr: because SS12 is not yet the compiler used to build ON and various others.
[18:44:30] <sparcdr> why's that?  ABI changes?
[18:45:05] <mritun_> can't be ABI changes... any compiler that breaks C ABI would be outcast :-P
[18:45:12] <sparcdr> would it not be possible to use the front-end of SS12 with SS11 compilers by setting PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH to use SS11 stuff?
[18:45:23] <mritun_> breaking C++ is a fair game though ;)
[18:45:27] <sparcdr> disabling SS11 stuff that is
[18:45:31] <sparcdr> ie: gui
[18:45:36] <g4lt-sb100> mritun_, tell me again about the outcastness of gcc?
[18:45:41] <sparcdr> C++ has standardization
[18:45:45] <mritun_> naah
[18:45:51] <mritun_> C++ *ABI* doesn't
[18:45:59] <sparcdr> o.o haha yeah
[18:46:08] <mritun_> eg. there is no standard on mangling of C++ names
[18:46:09] <sparcdr> same assembly code mostly :/
[18:46:33] <mritun_> g4lt-sb100: when did it break C ABI ?
[18:46:43] <sparcdr> sorry, not too keen on C++, what do you mean specifically by mangling of names
[18:47:06] <g4lt-sb100> mritun_, the gcc4 transition
[18:47:21] <mritun_> well std::foo.func_bar(vector<string> blah) -> mangled names
[18:47:22] <sparcdr> mritun_, he means it doesn't follow the standard as well as other compilers
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[18:47:44] <sparcdr> let's not be reminded of Microsoft C compilers and usage of void
[18:47:53] <nachox> C++ support function overloading but no two symbols can have the same name so the compiler mangle the name of the function
[18:48:01] <richlowe> g4lt-yarrrrr: and also an apt illustration of name mangling.
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[18:48:18] <sparcdr> gotcha
[18:48:23] <richlowe> g4lt-yarrrrr: if the standardization is as weak as people claim, you could have the frontend mangle into faux pirate, and still be valid...
[18:48:39] <nachox> arrr
[18:48:40] <nachox> :)
[18:48:50] <richlowe> foo::bar(int, char*) -> yarrr_bars_foo_takin_int_n_char_that_it_be
[18:48:51] <sparcdr> I pirate strange thoughts from my head
[18:49:40] <sparcdr> gah newer drivers for pcan did not fix the problem
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[18:50:17] <mritun_> sparcdr: still fighting ?
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[18:50:32] <sparcdr> mritun_, yep
[18:50:44] <mritun_> ah... give up and ebay an atheros
[18:50:51] <sparcdr> no dice
[18:51:05] <sparcdr> and I'm gonna fork money to Sun for an Ultra-20 why would I do that?
[18:51:10] <mritun_> I've had so many problems with iwi that I just feel like getting an atheros and be done with it
[18:51:16] <sparcdr> I have an atheros in this notebook
[18:51:34] <sparcdr> I have cisco mini-pci 350 and lucent orinoco gold and neither want to cooperate with the N/G AP
[18:51:35] <sparcdr> :(
[18:51:51] <mritun_> you have all b stuff !!!
[18:51:53] <sparcdr> let me clarify, the second router is being dumb
[18:52:10] <sparcdr> no I have all G stuff and one old notebook with two B
[18:52:15] <mritun_> found in an archeological survey of you home, eh ?
[18:52:16] <sparcdr> well this one is N
[18:52:55] <sparcdr> no I found my hands grab it from a by blood relation
[18:53:01] <mritun_> ah
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[18:53:09] <mritun_> well is your AP set to B mode ?
[18:53:11] <sparcdr> it's not bad, 1.8GHz P4 with 768MB ram
[18:53:17] <mritun_> try setting it b only
[18:53:17] <sparcdr> yeah
[18:53:27] <sparcdr> I have a better idea
[18:53:36] <mritun_> use wired :P
[18:53:40] <sparcdr> isn't G B compatible
[18:53:44] <mritun_> nope
[18:53:51] <sparcdr> crap on me :/
[18:53:54] <sparcdr> no use
[18:54:15] <sparcdr> I'll give in and get a Mini-PCI atheros (Or PCMCIA, I know where to get them, although they're more rare)
[18:54:21] <Pietro_S> both good routers can work with B+G
[18:54:29] <mritun_> there are usually 3 modes... b only, b&g (would downgrade everything to b if any b client connects), and g only
[18:54:35] <sparcdr> I have a good router, but it's set N + G in 2.4GHz band
[18:54:47] <mritun_> no dice then
[18:54:50] <sparcdr> and G + N != B (B cannot work with it)
[18:55:00] <sparcdr> won't downgrade either
[18:55:03] <sparcdr> wired it is
[18:55:07] <mritun_> set the dlink to b only
[18:55:23] <sparcdr> it is on B only on a high channel
[18:55:38] <sparcdr> N/G is 6, and Dlink (B) is 11
[18:55:41] <mritun_> and your card ? is it set to same chan ?
[18:55:58] <sparcdr> getting some retarded verbose kernel output for the card
[18:56:16] <mritun_> wificonfig should show that
[18:56:22] <mritun_> wificonfig showstatus
[18:56:29] <sparcdr> NOTICE: pcan: link Down 0x8001 then up then down
[18:56:32] <sparcdr> says channel 1
[18:56:35] <mritun_> heh
[18:56:36] <sparcdr> that's not right it's 11!
[18:56:44] <sparcdr> okay let me force it into 11
[18:56:53] <mritun_> wificonfig setparam
[18:57:14] <sparcdr> I know how to use wificonfig (men use man)
[18:57:19] <mritun_> :P
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[18:59:28] <sparcdr> blah Address already in use my foot
[18:59:39] <sparcdr> using DHCP at that >_<
[19:02:01] * sparcdr kicks air >:o
[19:02:20] <sparcdr> says alive @ 192.168.0.1 !
[19:02:23] <sparcdr> comeon google!
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[19:02:31] <sparcdr> ALIVE!
[19:02:33] <sparcdr> ayayayayya
[19:02:37] <sparcdr> pos
[19:03:00] <sparcdr> using mini-pci Cisco 350 with 5.003 firmware for the record, dhcp still wont cooperate though
[19:03:05] <sparcdr> but it pings google
[19:03:21] <sparcdr> once... link Down
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[19:03:27] <sbahra> Hi
[19:03:30] <sparcdr> hi sbahra
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[19:03:47] <sparcdr> mritun_, it's mangling the signal
[19:04:02] <sparcdr> i got it to ping google.com one time and ^C then again, fail!
[19:04:32] <sparcdr> this is no way to surf the interwebs
[19:04:46] <sparcdr> oh it pings again, after dieing out and changing state a few times
[19:04:52] <mritun_> :)
[19:05:00] <mritun_> the chan is overcrowded perhaps
[19:05:14] <sparcdr> whopping one router in here
[19:05:15] <sparcdr> :(
[19:05:19] <mritun_> naah
[19:05:22] <mritun_> its the N
[19:05:27] <sparcdr> N apparently hogs the whole spectrum
[19:05:34] <mritun_> there was a report sometime back
[19:05:35] <sparcdr> I get signal from 1000ft away with it, go figure
[19:05:50] <mritun_> if you have an N router... your neighbors using b/g would hate you
[19:06:09] <sparcdr> I have to get a G card for this notebook if I want to use wifi without bashing my head into bash-3.00 a few times
[19:06:16] <sparcdr> I don't have neighbors :P
[19:06:19] <mritun_> hehe... yep
[19:06:45] <sparcdr> I'm afraid of the logs on the N router
[19:07:02] <sparcdr> NOTICE: Idiot using my spectrum, fsck off
[19:07:23] <sparcdr> actually it says nothing
[19:07:37] <sparcdr> just TKIP rotations and time synchronization
[19:07:48] * Tempt considers getting a pre-N access point just to shit on everyone else using b/g...
[19:07:50] <sparcdr> meh wired ftw
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[19:08:12] <sparcdr> Tempt, well the ranger is about 3x that of B/G even in draft, and speeds are 10x faster in common use
[19:08:15] <sparcdr> so go for it :P
[19:08:24] <sparcdr> and G doesnt conflict with N
[19:08:37] <mritun_> only if it's from the same router
[19:08:53] <mritun_> another b/g router nearby doesn't stand a chance
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[19:08:59] <sparcdr> You can operate an Airport Extreme Base Station in compatibility mode, or into 5GHz.  If I didnt use compatibility mode it wouldnt be conflicting, because the B signal runs on 2.4GHz also
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[19:09:44] <mritun_> well, most people *would* use compatibility mode... and I doubt 5GHz is ubiquitous
[19:09:45] <sparcdr> but all but one client here is G
[19:10:21] <mritun_> i.e. 5GHz would be location dependent, no ? in some countries it's a licensed band
[19:10:39] <sparcdr> mritun_, true, unless you can fork about 240 bucks to buying a bunch of Belkin pre-n cards, then spend hours hacking drivers to make them work (Cause it's belkin, they suck) only Apple and Belkin afaik have released N (Well Apple uses 52xx series Atheros to be honest)
[19:10:44] <mritun_> (e.g. used by military in India)
[19:11:28] <sparcdr> anyways, the base station uses atheros cards, which pretty much kill the possibility of sharing, they are the most powerful and most unforgiving
[19:11:31] <sommerfeld> 5ghz is often cleaner -- I've found that when 802.11a is an option it's generally cleaner.
[19:11:47] <sparcdr> sommerfeld, if you have money to upgrade all your clients, go for it
[19:11:49] <Tempt> I use 802.11a
[19:11:54] <mritun_> sommerfeld: nobody uses it... so ;)
[19:11:57] <Tempt> It's the only wireless that works around here
[19:12:03] <Tempt> 2.4Ghz is waaay too crowded.
[19:12:04] <sparcdr> not a matter of cleaner here, I have G clients, but there are no neighbors or AP's
[19:12:12] <sommerfeld> mritun_: well, until 802.11n stomps on 802.11a :-)
[19:12:17] <mritun_> hehe
[19:12:27] <sparcdr> oh right, a is 5GHz
[19:12:40] <sparcdr> poor A has lost the limelight
[19:12:51] <sparcdr> My N can pull 130 megabits
[19:13:00] <sparcdr> non-draft states 300mbit
[19:13:12] * mritun_ 's G can't even do 25
[19:13:33] <mritun_> 3-4 MBps *max* from the home server
[19:13:35] <sparcdr> mritun_, don't feel bad, I have a dstink "super"-gay G router still
[19:13:44] <sparcdr> that's more than typical mritun_
[19:13:47] <sparcdr> typical is 1.8mb/s
[19:14:07] <mritun_> for any serious transfer I just use the wired
[19:14:14] <mritun_> one
[19:14:32] <sparcdr> where'd I get the numbers?  place your clients about 50ft from a G router in Super mode with atheros cards and you'll see 1.8-2mb/s sustained
[19:14:39] <sommerfeld> when it turned out the atheros card i put in my ferrari 4000 was a/b/g capable, I bought an a/b/g capable AP for home.
[19:14:50] <sparcdr> nice
[19:14:53] <mritun_> ferrari is sweet
[19:14:55] <sommerfeld> (and I have a bunch of neighbors who use b/g )
[19:14:55] <sparcdr> I'm happy with my N
[19:15:02] <mritun_> it's an opensource devs wet dream
[19:15:07] <sparcdr> aside from this darned Thinkpad
[19:15:09] <Tempt> I get awful performance on b/g with client sitting next to access point.
[19:15:10] <mritun_> all HW is pretty much compatible
[19:15:19] <Tempt> I blame it on cordless phones, wireless video transmitters and crap like that.
[19:15:20] <sparcdr> mritun_, chipset?  (I know it uses Turion64)
[19:15:26] <mritun_> yep
[19:15:31] <mritun_> atheros for wifi
[19:15:51] <mritun_> good bluetooth chipset and everything pretty much just works under linux/solaris
[19:16:06] <sparcdr> I have a MacBook Pro and Thinkpad T30, and both are compatible with whatever you like these days, aside from a slight adjustment to the partition table due to EFI on Mactels of cours
[19:16:18] <sparcdr> Ferrari would be trumped by my 2.4GHz Santa Rosa
[19:16:32] <sparcdr> It's outdated
[19:16:43] <mritun_> sparcdr: naah... no drivers yet for the wifi in sata rosa
[19:16:46] <sparcdr> They've provded that Core 2 beats any desktop AMD chip
[19:16:48] <sommerfeld> when i was using 802.11b at home I had to ditch mh 2.4ghz cordless phone for a 5ghz cordless phone.
[19:16:49] <sparcdr> yeah mritun_ there are
[19:16:50] <mritun_> santa rosa
[19:17:00] <sommerfeld> the 5ghz cordless phone coexists just fine with 802.11a
[19:17:02] <sparcdr> MadWifi, Atheros 52xx series
[19:17:14] <sparcdr> FreeBSD-current works fine on here
[19:17:22] <mritun_> and for intel 4xxx series ?
[19:17:29] <mritun_> with pre-N
[19:17:35] <sparcdr> didn't know intel had N
[19:17:39] <mritun_> (or was it draft N)
[19:17:42] <sparcdr> I don't use IWL
[19:18:07] <mritun_> the latest intel wifi for santa rosa has b/g/n
[19:18:22] <sparcdr> this particular notebook doesn't use Intel despite being Santa Rosa
[19:18:33] <sparcdr> Atheros baby
[19:19:07] <mritun_> well I've seen that most from Dell/HP still ship the b/g wifi with santa rosa
[19:19:17] <sparcdr> Centrino's from Sony and Dell (Core 2) use iwl though
[19:19:25] <mritun_> the b/g/n is less common... dunno why
[19:19:46] <sparcdr> mritun_, b/g/n/a in here
[19:19:49] <mritun_> (more expensive??)
[19:19:54] <sparcdr> yeah they are
[19:20:22] <mritun_> Mac Pro is a nice machine...
[19:20:25] <sparcdr> I don't know of any non-integrated all-in-ones
[19:20:31] <mritun_> can you install opensolaris native on it ?
[19:20:35] <sparcdr> I have a MacBook Pro with Santa Rosa and NVIDIA 8600 GT
[19:20:38] <sparcdr> tes
[19:20:41] <sparcdr> *yes
[19:20:46] <mritun_> bootcamp ?
[19:20:49] <sparcdr> simple workaround
[19:20:53] <sparcdr> boot camp is a misnomer
[19:21:01] <sparcdr> it's the efi compat module that handles it
[19:21:19] <sparcdr> boot camp is just a driver consolidation and front-end to diskutil
[19:21:25] <mritun_> ah
[19:21:30] <sparcdr> http://blogs.sun.com/paulm/entry/dual_partitioning_a_macbook_pro
[19:21:40] <mritun_> mine is quite old now... so I'm in market for a new machine
[19:21:53] <sparcdr> NVIDIA graphics now, go for it
[19:22:23] <sparcdr> If I can find space for my external disks contents temporarily I can install OpenSolaris on here
[19:22:31] <mritun_> I was thinking about indulging in a Mac Pro... but my thoughts go like.. if I have to be mostly in windows & Solaris, then why bother
[19:22:49] <sparcdr> you need to reformat a usb disk as GUID and use fdisk from OS X on the second disk to fix the conflict
[19:23:03] <mritun_> ah
[19:23:20] <sparcdr> mritun_, because it's still powerful, it has dual sockets, 8 way capable, using server procs supporting 16gb of ram, for less than Sun would be
[19:23:37] <sparcdr> it's price competitive to Dell's high end workstations
[19:23:45] <sparcdr> even with OS X tax as some may call it
[19:24:31] <sparcdr> you can install fibrechannel, pci-x cards (Even Quadro) and it'll work with other systems (Just not OS X since firmware is coded for BIOS)
[19:25:09] <sparcdr> Advantages of EFI include OpenBootPROM capability, pre-driver loading, which is why it starts 2-3x faster than an OS using BIOS-compat
[19:25:10] <mritun_> aha wow
[19:25:24] <sparcdr> but yes, it'll work
[19:25:56] <sparcdr> I have already cleared OS X off before seeing if I can use Windows or whatever without OS X, you need to set the startup volume using the recovery dvd, but that's about it
[19:26:11] <Pietro_S> is there any way how to clone locale? I just want from cs_CZ.UTF-8 to cs_CZ.utf-8 ..
[19:26:25] <sparcdr> Pietro_S, yeah
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[19:26:31] <sparcdr> Pietro_S, did you install the desired locale
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[19:27:22] <sparcdr> and what do you mean "clone", it sounds like you merely want to chose a different codepage
[19:28:00] <Pietro_S> sparcdr: I installed it, but some app is trying to set cs_CZ.utf-8, which fails
[19:28:38] <sparcdr> which app?
[19:28:58] <Pietro_S> when I change source to "cs_CZ.UTF-8" it sets locale, but translations won't work
[19:29:00] <Pietro_S> wesnoth
[19:29:31] <sparcdr> does wesnoth support it?
[19:29:38] <mritun_> brb
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[19:29:45] <sparcdr> some apps don't come with i18n support
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[19:31:56] <Pietro_S> sparcdr: yes it supports - but looks like not Solaris's locales :(
[19:35:15] <_setuid_H> Pietro_S: you're czech?
[19:35:43] <Pietro_S> yes
[19:35:47] <_setuid_H> Me too
[19:36:20] <Pietro_S> ;-)
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[19:38:05] <_setuid_H> what about to make a link to the locale
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[19:39:30] <_setuid_H> Pietro_S: http://developers.sun.com/dev/gadc/techtips/locale_customization.html
[19:39:33] <_setuid_H> try this link
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[19:41:48] <Pietro_S> thanks for link
[19:42:02] <_setuid_H> no problem
[19:42:29] <_setuid_H> Is onnv enought to be something like miniroot?
[19:42:39] <sommerfeld> setuid_H: not quite.
[19:43:17] <_setuid_H> well I'm trying tu create light weight solaris miniroot
[19:43:25] <_setuid_H> for my own needing
[19:44:06] <_setuid_H> I know there is something like reduced core support instalation on SX media
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[19:50:58] <richlowe> you mean how the existing install miniroot comes into existance, or?
[19:51:16] <_setuid_H> no
[19:51:38] <_setuid_H> i just need to create solaris miniroot and place it to the zfs tank
[19:52:35] <_setuid_H> utar and copy bfu-archives is not enought
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[19:57:23] <alanc> hmm, there's other bugs coming through the triage queue - guess the spam filter just ate roland's again
[19:57:33] <richlowe> alanc: we're not certain that's the problem.
[19:57:58] <richlowe> alanc: of all the people I've asked, response is evenly distributed between "don't know" and "don't care".
[19:58:05] <richlowe> except the spike in the middle covering both.
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[19:58:42] <alanc> hmm, I think I'd fall somewhere between "don't know" and "isn't boo dead yet?"
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[20:01:13] <pbaumgartner> the only versions i see of opensolaris are x86 and sparc
[20:01:31] <pbaumgartner> is there a 64bit version?
[20:01:41] <flyingparchment> both x86 and sparc support 64-bit systems
[20:01:55] <flyingparchment> (in fact sparc hasn't support 32-bit system for a long time)
[20:02:00] <pbaumgartner> got it
[20:02:12] <pbaumgartner> i just choose at install time?
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[20:02:23] <flyingparchment> you don't need to choose. it's automatic
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[20:02:34] <pbaumgartner> even better :)
[20:02:39] <flyingparchment> there is no '64-bit solaris', the same version runs on both 32-bit and 64-bit systems
[20:02:58] <sommerfeld> solaris for x86 includes both 32-bit and 64-bit support.
[20:03:56] <cmihai> Unless you specify the kernel you want in grub, it will use autodetection (new variable in grub)
[20:03:57] <sommerfeld> on both sparc and x86, there are 32-bit and 64-bit versions of shared libraries, etc.,
[20:04:07] <cmihai> The installer is still 32 bit though
[20:05:02] <sommerfeld> yup.  the x86 install miniroot environment is 32-bit only to make it smaller, which confuses some people
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[20:05:25] <pbaumgartner> what's the latest news on Indiana?
[20:05:51] <flyingparchment> it's dramatic
[20:06:07] <e^ipi> heh
[20:06:14] <e^ipi> that's a fantastic adjective to describe it
[20:06:35] <sparcdr> pbaumgartner, for instance, I have an instance of SDX on VMware Fusion, it defaults to x86_64
[20:06:58] <sparcdr> only differences are some apps, it's called LP64 (Dual binary)
[20:07:48] <sparcdr> problem with the model is when you compile things and have certain environment variables set, Apple did a more logical thing with Universal binaries as the MACH format combines the assembly of both architectures in one file
[20:08:00] <flyingparchment> actually, LP64 refers to the fact that 'long int' and pointers in C are 64-bit
[20:08:09] <flyingparchment> solaris is LP64, but so is Linux and nearly all other 64-bit OSs
[20:08:24] <pbaumgartner> so, it's dramatic how?
[20:09:52] <e^ipi> pbaumgartner: it's create a very large rift between people who like solaris for what it is, and linux immigrants
[20:10:15] <sommerfeld> dramatic in the sense of psychodrama?
[20:10:34] <flyingparchment> i wish smf import took less time on zone creation
[20:11:31] <pbaumgartner> i can see that
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[20:11:53] <pbaumgartner> same type of drama that came with hiring Ian Murdock, eh?
[20:12:04] <e^ipi> it's the exact same drama
[20:12:11] <flyingparchment> hiring ian didn't create any drama
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[20:12:33] <e^ipi> him shooting off his mouth & dragging the brand through the mud did, in either case
[20:13:30] <elektronkind> at least right now the linux community is distracted by theo
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[20:15:18] <richlowe> we don't have a brand, and sun have a long history of destroying their own.
[20:15:29] <richlowe> so I don't totally see the point either way.
[20:15:55] <sparcdr> yeah
[20:16:11] <sparcdr> Ian Murdock made a good choice
[20:16:47] <sparcdr> GPLv3 is an oxymoron to freedom, the demise of Linux in popularity is becoming apparent, slowly but surely people will realize that there are alternatives to the one alternative
[20:16:59] <wesolows> surely we don't need this
[20:17:10] <wesolows> begone ye scurvy dog!
[20:17:11] <sparcdr> need what?
[20:17:16] <sparcdr> arr
[20:17:44] <sparcdr> Theo... sorry he's arrogant to everyone
[20:17:54] <e^ipi> perhaps
[20:17:55] <wesolows> talk all you want about theo; he's entertaining
[20:17:58] <e^ipi> but he's often right
[20:18:08] <sparcdr> Go yell at Schilly
[20:18:11] <e^ipi> which I think annoys people more than his arrogance
[20:18:22] <e^ipi> schilly's often right too, for that matter
[20:18:25] <wesolows> but '*** *******' and '*****' in successive lines are only going to stir up controversy we've been through over and over
[20:18:32] <sparcdr> e^ipi, I don't have a problem with theo
[20:19:01] <sparcdr> anyways wesolows it right
[20:19:06] <sparcdr> I'll switch the subject
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[20:19:32] <sparcdr> what's more important is helping people, and getting good things done for opensolaris
[20:24:48] <Shiv__> Should configure scripts in SFW consolidation set include and LD paths to proto area?
[20:25:42] <sparcdr> Shiv__, I'd think so
[20:26:02] <sparcdr> Since some binaries are supposed to remain 32-bit linked against preferred libraries
[20:26:23] <Shiv__> Currently I see that the SFW builds pick the libs from the system and this is leading to mis-matches.
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[20:26:45] <Shiv__> Ex: tcl has been moved to a higher version from B70 onwards.
[20:27:22] <sparcdr> they should pick the libs from the system since that's what they build against
[20:28:07] <sparcdr> it's also dependent on which snv build you are on, so for compatibility and successful building they need to link with the system libraries of that version
[20:29:50] <sparcdr> if you were to setup secondary libraries which those packages need, it should work
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[20:30:18] <Shiv__> expect (tcl extension) from CCD also tries to pick it from the system. Proto area contains 8.4.x while system contains 8.3.x. Still worse, proto area is not supposed to have /usr/sfw from B70 while the expect makefile still looks for /usr/sfw
[20:30:36] <sparcdr> haha it's richard stallman on the new detectives... (not really, this guy looks like him)
[20:30:55] <sparcdr> latest isnt b70 btw
[20:31:13] <Shiv__> My system is B64a while the code base of SFW & CCD that I am using is from B72
[20:32:13] <Pietro_S> Shiv__: that works? (btw. hello)
[20:32:14] <sparcdr> I'm not sure what changes between SDX and B72 there are, I'd assume the ABI is fine and programs should work as long as the corresponding libraries exist and are setuo to be preferred
[20:32:27] <sparcdr> *setup
[20:32:48] <sparcdr> but as for compiling, you have to have things setup specifically to build against the least common denominator
[20:32:50] <Shiv__> No it doesnt work. Problem is to do with only directory changes and Makefile structures.
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[20:33:01] <sparcdr> ie: b64a
[20:33:03] <Shiv__> I can build tcl, tk and expect independantly on the current system
[20:33:21] <Shiv__> without using the framework of SFW/CCD
[20:33:25] <sparcdr> this includes base system dependencies, you have to link against the lowest ones
[20:34:04] <Shiv__> Yes. No issues with the independant build. It is only with this makefile that mixes things between proto area and the system.
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[20:35:39] <Shiv__> It should pick everything from the proto area since it is supposed to be clean.
[20:37:00] <Shiv__> It is picking headers of a earlier built packages from the system. The system itself is old since the package version has changed and directories have changed (/usr/sfw -> /usr)
[20:37:34] <Shiv__> The current way of organizing the makefiles seems to be too rigid to handle this kind of changes unless I am missing out on something.
[20:37:59] <Shiv__> Pietro_S: I missed the "hello" :)
[20:39:15] <Shiv__> How is it ON? Do any of the components getting built pick the libs/headers from the system or is it entirely from the proto area?
[20:39:16] <sparcdr> Shiv__, not sure what to say except hack up the makefiles.  sun spends months backporting changes from opensolaris to solaris ga and it's the same obsticles
[20:39:49] <sparcdr> they're from the system afaik, but then again i havent rebuilt all of sfw
[20:40:13] <Shiv__> sparcdr: Yeah, that is what I am doing.
[20:40:37] <sparcdr> you're saying that source wise there are problems, or library linking wise?
[20:40:55] <sparcdr> because they should use system libraries and headers when they need to
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[20:42:00] <cyborg--> another thing i noticed,  sometimes iscsi just slows down to like 100kb/s    , and if i use iscsitadm to manipulate any parameters it generally comes back to full speed
[20:42:26] <Shiv__> Suppose, I want to move tcl from 8.3.x to 8.4.x and also move the path from /usr/sfw to /usr
[20:42:45] <Shiv__> tcl itself builds fine.
[20:42:49] <sparcdr> cyborg--, something to do with when parameters are set it flushes it out
[20:43:07] <Shiv__> Now I start with expect which is dependant on tcl, this is when problem starts.
[20:43:31] <sparcdr> have you gone through expect's makefiles to find specific paths in there?
[20:43:36] <Shiv__> expect's makefiles see the 8.3.x tcl on the system which is incompatible with 8.4.x
[20:43:57] <sparcdr> right, but why not modify expect's makefiles to use 8.4?
[20:44:19] <sparcdr> with your configuration, it's probably the more preferred way even if it seems like hackery
[20:44:20] <Shiv__> Tcl's makefiles also have problem, since they do not install all the required headers required for expect.
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[20:44:43] <Shiv__> Even if they install, they install into proto area.
[20:44:44] <sparcdr> then point expect to use headers from the source archive of tcl
[20:45:21] <Shiv__> I am not sure if that would be acceptable if I want it to go into SFW.
[20:45:31] <sparcdr> set expect to use the proto installed version by setting INCLUDE_PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH
[20:45:34] <sparcdr> it might work
[20:46:34] <Shiv__> If I just want to build for my own sake, it is already working for me without the SFW's makefiles and dir structure.
[20:47:27] <sparcdr> so what are you saying, you want specific components of sfw but not others and in your own destroot?
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[20:50:51] <mritun_brb> Shiv__: why not just use blastwave and pull in expect from there ?
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[20:52:45] <Shiv__> :) I would like to see expect go into SX. Currently it is in CCD and I am looking at moving it to SFW so that it can be available in SX by default.
[20:53:02] <Shiv__> Getting it installed on my system for personal use is a non-issue.
[20:53:43] <mritun> oh k
[20:54:13] <sparcdr> good thought, I use blastwave to rectify a lot of oddities
[20:54:30] <e^ipi> s/rectify/create/g
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[20:55:58] <sparcdr> one can blame gnu dependency issues, I have come to loathe how software can be agnostic but depenndent at the same time, an example is the hoops I jump through to setup an Apache + PHP build environment on my SGI machine
[20:56:11] <sparcdr> *dependent
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[20:57:22] <sparcdr> it's too bad there's such a wide disparity between build systems, when you have to deal with dependencies that need to be built with specific compilers, etc
[20:57:42] <e^ipi> hence the kde-solaris project
[20:57:51] <sparcdr> don't even mention that lol
[20:58:01] <sparcdr> gnu is all that it can be built with in complete
[20:58:14] <e^ipi> because it's not just "./configure && make && make install"...
[20:58:24] <e^ipi> on the plus side, KDE4 looks like it will be
[20:58:36] <e^ipi> because they're receptive to patches
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[20:58:43] <_mw46_> hi;-)
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[20:59:05] <_mw46_> what's the easiest way to het network io stats?
[20:59:07] <sparcdr> a major portion of Blastwave software uses Sun compilers, while a small subset is dependent on gnu tools (gsed, gawk, gcc, bsd/gnu install, etc)
[20:59:30] <sparcdr> e^ipi, good to hear
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[21:00:21] <sparcdr> _mw46_, http://www.samag.com/documents/s=7667/sam0213a/0213a.htm
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[21:00:52] <sparcdr> http://www.adminschoice.com/docs/iostat_vmstat_netstat.htm Network Statistics
[21:01:19] <sparcdr> I believe there's also support in dtrace for monitoring network performance :P
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[21:06:20] <_mw46_> sparcdr: I was actually more looking for `vmstat' or `iostat' but for the the network.
[21:06:30] <bda> DTraceToolkit contains some useful (and trivial) scripts for that.
[21:07:42] <seanmcg> theres nicstat...
[21:08:23] <seanmcg> nicstat from: http://blogs.sun.com/timc/entry/nicstat_the_solaris_network_monitoring
[21:09:16] <flyingparchment> e^ipi: sadly, KDE 3 was receptive to patches, but didn't test solaris before release
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[21:09:37] <flyingparchment> e^ipi: so they released KDE 3.x - which didn't work on Solaris - and then accepted patches to fix it... but then the next release didn't build on Solaris either
[21:11:18] <richlowe> that's true of many things, I think.
[21:11:36] <richlowe> isn't that part of the reason JDS spend so much time tracking GNOME trying to make sure it's not one huge push to fix it in one shot?
[21:12:40] <elektronkind> here's some old stuff found in my office:
[21:12:41] <elektronkind> http://elektronkind.org/localimg/solaris1.jpg
[21:12:48] <elektronkind> http://elektronkind.org/localimg/ultrix.jpg
[21:13:02] <bda> ha
[21:15:59] <sparcdr> richlowe, not exactly.  it seems more of an iterative patch frenzy to plug build holes and let the few users out there not using JDS deal with the weird bugs caused by HAL dependence and assumptions of architecture
[21:16:13] <sparcdr> elektronkind, o.o lol
[21:16:29] <sparcdr> that's old!
[21:17:03] <elektronkind> sunos 4.1.3u1 was the first SunOS I touched. I'm keeping this CD :)
[21:17:06] <elektronkind> actualy
[21:17:15] <elektronkind> it was the first unix I touched, period
[21:17:21] <sparcdr> worse yet though I have an IBM Personal System/2 with IBM PC-DOS 3.30 and Lotus 123 2.01
[21:17:33] <elektronkind> the ultrix one is a keeper. everyone loves ultrix
[21:18:08] <sparcdr> which is from 1986-1987
[21:18:32] <sparcdr> the machine was manufactured in April, 1987, and the software dates back to late 1986
[21:18:54] <sparcdr> still powers up and works too.  whopping 30MB disk and 640k memory
[21:19:02] <elektronkind> yeah, my high school still used that same set up in the early 90s to teach "word processing"
[21:19:17] <sparcdr> terrible
[21:19:47] <sparcdr> Windows 2.03 and a 5lb 5 1/2" floppy drive which needs its own power source too
[21:20:34] <sparcdr> Internix and SCO UNIX were the only thing remotely possible to run on these
[21:21:09] <sparcdr> BSD never ran on 286 and Linux started with 386 if you remember (MMU to be specific, not existant on 286)
[21:21:35] <flyingparchment> actually i think someone ported 2BSD to the 286
[21:22:03] <flyingparchment> i have an AT&T 3B1 with SVR3.2 (inc. media) :)
[21:22:21] <sparcdr> plus the 640k memory issue.  well if you're into embedded systems, you've probably had experience with the debate between RTOS microkernels and monolithic kernels.  There's no way you could load a kernel on this bigger than around 250k
[21:22:29] <sparcdr> remember this is x86
[21:22:38] <sparcdr> and I think you are right, but it was useless
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[21:23:33] <e^ipi> flyingparchment: because of the delay & how fast adriaan & stefan are working on it, it looks like as soon as kde4 is released it'll work on Solaris
[21:23:33] <elektronkind> speaking of RAM, crucial.com is having a "Pirate Day Giveaway"
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[21:23:52] <e^ipi> & there'll almost certainly be packages for it that day too
[21:24:03] <sparcdr> I could always opt to get my hands on a Personal System/50 (Pre-laptop) "mobile" computer with red screen and a 386, but then again, I had enough trouble with my 12MHz 386 days back in my early computer days
[21:24:42] <sparcdr> e^ipi, should be in blastwave shortly after release given that information, glad you brought it up
[21:25:23] <sparcdr> Of course, it'd always be nice to see it part of ON, or as an addon, but I won't hold my breath
[21:25:45] <e^ipi> it wouldn't be part of ON regardless
[21:25:58] <sparcdr> They have a default desktop, JDS, so yeah
[21:26:08] <e^ipi> JDS is JDS, it's not part of ON
[21:26:17] <sparcdr> I meant the consolidation in general
[21:26:26] <sparcdr> not the ON consolidation, the distribution
[21:26:38] <e^ipi> SXCE, then you mean
[21:26:49] <sparcdr> Yeah, or SDX
[21:27:16] <e^ipi> there's a lot of resistance to that, so it's unfortunately unlikely
[21:27:27] <sparcdr> Sun won't be adopting it anytime soon, they've put too much effort into JDS to become responsible for creating any disparity
[21:27:56] <sparcdr> Fine by me as long as we don't have to have such a hackjob of KDE goin' on
[21:28:12] <sparcdr> Might even be 100% Sun Studio compiled :D
[21:28:23] <e^ipi> s/might/will
[21:28:41] <sparcdr> more likely than not given your comments about the two devs working on it
[21:28:45] <e^ipi> getting it compiling w/ gcc is trivial. all the work so far has been to get it working with studio
[21:29:04] <sparcdr> I'm aware of that, and this is what I was discussing earlier
[21:29:15] <sparcdr> specifically the dependence on gnu toolchain
[21:29:50] <sparcdr> brb
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[21:35:47] <coffman> darren moffat?
[21:35:59] <coffman> bug 6332924 is still not fixed!
[21:36:06] <coffman> shame!
[21:36:45] <coffman> Reported Against    snv_66 - Commit to Fix    snv_70 - Fixed In
[21:36:46] <coffman> ts
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[21:38:19] <axisys> uname -r shows 5.11 .. ow do I make it show 5.10 temporarily to install a test app
[21:38:50] <flyingparchment> axisys: you can't
[21:38:50] <sparcdr> axisys, obviously that's what it does, but you can write a shellscript to give it false information
[21:39:18] <sparcdr> there's probably a reason it checks
[21:39:20] <seanmcg> axisys: that was one of the first dtrace hacks ever.. google for it.
[21:39:23] <sparcdr> is it a kernel module?
[21:40:16] <axisys> well i am trying to install sun mc 3.6.1 (i know most of you hate it) .. but i think it should work with 5.11 if i could by pass the check
[21:40:37] <sparcdr> sorry, mc you mean midnight commander?
[21:40:48] <axisys> sun management center
[21:40:53] <sparcdr> oh
[21:40:57] <sparcdr> "smc" is the name
[21:41:07] <axisys> sparcdr: yep .. *sigh*
[21:41:11] <sparcdr> they're opting to remove it from nevada
[21:41:21] <sparcdr> it's useless
[21:41:25] <sparcdr> what do you need it for?
[21:41:53] <flyingparchment> smc != sun mc
[21:41:55] <axisys> sparcdr: i want to do some snmp probe to my 5310 storage and see how it works .. so i can mimic it in some other app
[21:42:20] <sparcdr> what flyingparchment said
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[21:42:41] <sparcdr> mimic?  you mean clone functionality and make a new app, or what?
[21:42:54] <sparcdr> you dont need smc to do snmp stuff
[21:43:05] <axisys> sparcdr: something like that.. before we detour too much.. i was just loking for a uname -r hack
[21:43:16] <axisys> sparcdr: i know
[21:43:26] <sparcdr> google smc screenshots?
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[21:43:55] <sparcdr> the hack is to use dtrace or a shellscript that outputs what uname -a says but with the desired info
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[21:55:38] <sparcdr> so what's up guys
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[22:02:43] <chris_d> Does anybody know how to turn off root squash in ZFS exported NFS shares?
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[22:08:09] <sparcdr> chris_d, NFS on ZFS shouldn't make a difference, have you read the exports manpage?
[22:10:19] <chris_d> sparcdr: zfs automagically exports filesystems for NFS. I thought you weren't supposed to tweak the settings via files, but via zfs set commands.
[22:10:42] <sparcdr> Might I ask why you need it turned off?
[22:12:31] <chris_d> I need it turned off to a specific client only.
[22:12:40] <chris_d> So that the root user on that client can manipulate files.
[22:12:42] <sparcdr> http://number9.hellooperator.net/articles/2007/01/12/zfs-for-linux-and-osx-and-windows-and-bsd is all I can find on ZFS and NFS
[22:13:16] <chris_d> It turns out that if you set the sharefns variable to share options rather than "on", the share is exported with those options.
[22:13:21] <sparcdr> maybe something like zfs set sharenfs=ro,no_root_squash mount/point
[22:14:09] <chris_d> sparcdr: Yup. I just need to figure out how to limit that to one host.
[22:14:37] <sparcdr> I'm not aware of any documentation specifically for that, since I don't use ZFS (Not enough spare boxes and disks to go around)
[22:14:52] <sparcdr> I looked through Sun's docs and so far, nothing on per-user
[22:15:10] <chris_d> Then I'll make you jealous by saying that we have two thumpers--one for production and one to play around with. :)
[22:15:28] <sparcdr> o:
[22:15:41] <sparcdr> now that's worth a butt-kicking sir
[22:15:48] <sparcdr> anyways let me look at a few manpages
[22:16:58] <sparcdr> chris_d, have any experience with Ultra-20 M2?
[22:17:05] <sparcdr> just a side topic I'd like to ask about
[22:17:16] <chris_d> No. Sorry.
[22:17:23] <sparcdr> so just sun servers
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[22:17:50] <sparcdr> well that's okay, I'm moreover asking about quality anyways, since I only have experience with Sun's quality on their older SPARC systems and a T2000
[22:18:02] <sparcdr> How good is the quality on the thumpers?
[22:18:21] <hali> excellent
[22:18:25] <hali> thumpers pwn
[22:18:57] <quasi> built using lead pipes and other bits to make them heavy enough that they don't take flight when the fans spin on high
[22:18:59] <sparcdr> hali, thanks.  I was asking in regards to Sun x64 systems, because as I said I only have experience with older SPARC systems (U80, Ultra-2, and yes they're quite good)
[22:19:43] <hali> thumpers are quite cool, i'm still waiting for them to be sold in pairs bundeled with storage replication
[22:19:56] <sparcdr> okay
[22:19:59] <sparcdr> :)
[22:20:10] <hali> but for say a datawarehouse appliance or just to store shitloads for simulation data etc on they are great
[22:20:28] <hali> i wouldn't have any business critical apps on it... it's still a pc at the back
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[22:20:33] 
[22:20:42] <sommerfeld> hali: zfs send -r  is coming :-)
[22:20:43] <hali> the "pc" is cold swap though
[22:20:50] <hali> sommerfeld: realtime?
[22:20:58] <hali> sommerfeld: sync writes on both boxes?
[22:21:06] <hali> whould cool
[22:21:09] <hali> would be*
[22:21:20] <sparcdr> _william_, yeah
[22:21:21] <sommerfeld> no, not realtime
[22:21:31] <quasi> avs like?
[22:21:43] <_william_> i have one sparcdr maybe i can anwser you
[22:22:00] <sparcdr> _william_, specifically the construction, weight to power, efficiency, power consumption are the areas
[22:22:22] <_william_> construction is good
[22:22:38] <_william_> not as good as blade 2K or U80, but it is good
[22:22:47] <_william_> nothing in common with U5 or U10 :)
[22:22:59] <sparcdr> I have experience with Ultra-60 and Ultra-2
[22:23:09] <sparcdr> How much heat does it throw out
[22:23:10] <_william_> U60 is pretty good
[22:23:26] <_william_> i prefer U80 or Blade, but U60 are goods also :)
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[22:23:52] <_william_> here the construction is good, case is heavy (not too much, but not low quality platic)
[22:24:10] <_william_> it is not noisy
[22:24:17] <sparcdr> _william_, which config are you using?
[22:24:17] <_william_> and it is screaming fast :)
[22:24:19] <sparcdr> Medium?
[22:24:30] <wesolows> U60/80 is pathetically slow and obsolete
[22:24:48] <_william_> M2 with 2Gigs of ram and fx1500
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[22:25:03] <Monkeytrainer> Ultra 45 is a nice server
[22:25:10] <_william_> wesolows: it depends what you are doing.... for a desktop yes they are outdated
[22:25:31] <_william_> i have a full loaded u80 and it does a nice database server for development
[22:25:36] <sparcdr> any upgrades?  (I personally have to get 2GB, via 3rd party of course) but generally speaking how is the 1214 opteron
[22:25:41] <wesolows> why would you buy a U45 to use as a server instead of a 1U SPARC server?
[22:25:59] <Monkeytrainer> for a desktop
[22:26:17] <wesolows> if it's a desktop, it's not a server; if it's a server, it's not a desktop
[22:26:18] <sparcdr> I had a quad 450MHz Ultra2 (U60) and they are not usable for desktop purposes, but they handle pbzip2 great :P
[22:26:19] <Monkeytrainer> We filled our classrooms with them
[22:26:40] <wesolows> the workstations don't have features like iloms that are necessary for any real server deployment
[22:26:50] <sparcdr> I don't need it for a server
[22:26:51] <_william_> sparcdr: i havent tried yet to upgrade the ram, but you should be able to find some third party memory sticks
[22:27:01] <sparcdr> Might like to play with ZFS, add another disk or two
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[22:27:11] <sparcdr> _william_, it's generic pc2-5300 ddr2
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[22:27:17] <_william_> opteron 1214 is doing good according to me. I am using it to do C++ and java devel it is really fine
[22:27:18] <sparcdr> well theirs is high grade
[22:27:23] <_william_> so much faster than my blade 2K
[22:27:28] <Monkeytrainer> Well the 440 is the way to go for me... but them I rather have an SP then a ilom
[22:27:28] <sparcdr> _william_, obviously
[22:27:41] <sparcdr> ALOM > ILOM
[22:27:51] <sparcdr> but then again I have access to a T2000
[22:28:07] <wesolows> alom, ilom, SP, whatever you want to call the various flavours and versions, it's a necessary management feature for servers
[22:28:18] <Monkeytrainer> Alom I ment, I was just on a SB8000 so a bit off
[22:28:21] <sparcdr> _william_, what about cost?  is it pretty competitive?
[22:28:33] <sparcdr> wesolows, alom was fun to use
[22:28:45] <Monkeytrainer> T2000 is nice, LDOMS is cool to play with
[22:29:14] <_william_> sparcdr: price seems okay, but i haven't paid for mine ;)
[22:29:24] <_william_> so check sun.com or your local sunsite
[22:29:29] <sparcdr> T2000 definitely smokes using it with a patched version of john (Go ahead, crank up 128 threads, crack a 1000 user LM hash database in an hour)
[22:29:45] <Monkeytrainer> ILom is linux based. Aloms are vxworks based.... then SP are well VXworks, solaris or linux based
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[22:30:26] <sparcdr> _william_, I have, configuration I chose is medium with a cost of 1700 (Will use 3rd party ram and disks)
[22:30:29] <Monkeytrainer> T2000 rocks if you apps are compiled for multi treading..... but then if it isn't it will be slow
[22:30:47] <sparcdr> Monkeytrainer, that's a FPU limitation, one FPU per core, T2 fixes that
[22:30:58] <Monkeytrainer> FPU limitations too
[22:31:03] <Monkeytrainer> yeppers
[22:31:07] <sparcdr> No, that IS the limitation
[22:31:45] <sparcdr> single threaded tasks must have high clockrate or integrated fpu per core and thread when not properly coded
[22:31:53] <hali> cpustat can tell you if that is the limitation, it can display the level of floating ops you have
[22:31:56] <sparcdr> so many apps are like that though
[22:32:03] <Monkeytrainer> more then just FPU, don't know how many customers have used a T2000 in a heavy I/O write operation and the application locks slowed them down... it all depends on the application.
[22:32:21] <sparcdr> for a LigHTTPd + RoR or DB server, the T2000 is a fierce machine
[22:32:45] <Monkeytrainer> ok
[22:32:57] <sparcdr> anyways thanks _william_ for the information about quality, sets my mind at ease.  I try and support Sun when I can, like their company.
[22:33:19] <_william_> sparcdr: what configuration doyou mean ? 1700 USD that's it ?
[22:33:24] <sparcdr> yes _william_
[22:33:36] <sparcdr> stock medium 1214 with hardware warrenty
[22:33:43] <_william_> so let me look at the .com site :)
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[22:33:52] <sparcdr> I can convert that
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[22:34:44] <sparcdr> it's 850.298 british pounds
[22:35:02] <sparcdr> 1,218.638 euros
[22:35:04] <_william_> config 1 is 895 USD not 1700
[22:35:16] <sparcdr> Ultra-20 M2 Medium
[22:35:19] <sparcdr> Config 2
[22:35:26] <sparcdr> + hardware
[22:35:37] <sparcdr> sorry + hardware warrenty
[22:36:36] <_william_> ok i see :)
[22:36:40] <_william_> i have config 3
[22:37:06] <sparcdr> kind of cost prohibitive eh
[22:37:17] <_william_> well in fact i won it at sun tech days :)
[22:37:21] <sparcdr> Don't have 3000 on me right now :P and have good credit
[22:37:26] <_william_> so it was not that expensive :p
[22:37:33] <sparcdr> so even at 10-15% I'd rather lease
[22:37:42] <sparcdr> did you get a hardware warrenty?
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[22:37:55] <sparcdr> the 3rd is my ideal
[22:37:59] <_william_> i don't now... i thingi have the standard one year warranty
[22:38:07] <sparcdr> 2605 with warrenty
[22:38:10] <_william_> no extension to three year
[22:38:15] <sparcdr> 3 year upgrade
[22:38:18] <sparcdr> it's worth it
[22:38:30] <sparcdr> usually things wear out right at 1yr
[22:38:44] <sparcdr> sounds decent though :)
[22:39:01] <_william_> i don't know... i should ask, or check the doc, i haven't looked at the warrenty in fact
[22:39:10] <sparcdr> it's 1yr standard
[22:41:08] <sparcdr> I prefer Sun to any vendor these days, so I'll call Sun sales
[22:42:08] <_william_> i am really happy with this box
[22:42:12] <sparcdr> great :)
[22:42:21] <_william_> i have switch from my blade 2K to u20 as main box
[22:42:29] <sparcdr> looks like an awesome enclosure too
[22:42:37] <_william_> blade is slower and heats too much
[22:43:06] <sparcdr> yeah, well I have an SGI Octane2, only thing hotter was my quad SPARC system
[22:43:19] <_william_> got one also :)
[22:43:34] <_william_> blade 2K full loaded is hotter than octane 2
[22:43:37] <sparcdr> yeah still pretty ysable :)
[22:43:44] <sparcdr> *usable
[22:43:45] <_william_> but octane is really more noisy
[22:43:48] <sparcdr> I bet
[22:43:51] <sparcdr> yeah very
[22:44:04] <sparcdr> is the Ultra-20 more quiet (Please say yes)
[22:44:14] <_william_> i think so
[22:44:29] <_william_> but first time i powered it on i was scared by fan noise
[22:44:36] <_william_> hopperfully it last 2 seconds nomore
[22:45:00] <sparcdr> don't feel bad, starting a t2000 for the first time will kill kittens
[22:45:06] <_william_> lol
[22:47:51] <sparcdr> that thing starts up like a leaf blower for 10 minutes until diagnostics are done, then it calms down but it's more than twice as noisy as a microwave
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[22:48:20] <_william_> what is your octane 2 config
[22:49:10] <sparcdr> compared to stock, I'd say more than decent.  Single R12K MIPS (400MHz), V8 framebuffer, 73GB SCSI, 2GB ram
[22:49:35] <sparcdr> Stock was a single R10K with V6, 36GB SCSI, and 512MB ram at a cost of 57000 in 2001
[22:50:00] <sparcdr> I'm not joking, go find the datasheet and you'll blow snot into your coffee
[22:50:30] <_william_> i have the same, single R12K, 2Go, V8, and two 36Gigs hdd
[22:50:34] <sparcdr> Even the most expensive Sun workstation was not more than 30K
[22:50:49] <sparcdr> but they were the cream of the crop and the best media platform
[22:50:57] <_william_> sure :)
[22:50:58] <sparcdr> SGI is just another Sun with less employees
[22:51:08] <_william_> i have several sgis at home, they are so cool
[22:51:09] <sparcdr> Oh, and they don't make their own software now
[22:51:09] <sparcdr> :P
[22:51:41] <sparcdr> The Fuel was the last MIPS SGI, and after the Octane2, no more innovation came out of them
[22:51:56] <_william_> last workstation is the tero
[22:51:58] <_william_> tezro
[22:52:01] <sparcdr> yeah
[22:52:03] <sparcdr> whatever
[22:52:04] <_william_> kind of a smp fuel
[22:52:19] <sparcdr> Yes PLEASE, make us buy Itanic2 and sink my battleship, do it NOW
[22:52:27] <_william_> :)
[22:52:44] <sparcdr> sorry, MIPS > Itanium2 (Itanium took many MIPS features)
[22:53:15] <sparcdr> Nowadays they fair well on SPEC, I'll give them that, but getting out of graphics was understandable while still a dumb move
[22:54:14] <sparcdr> They sold off Alias, and now Autodesk owns Alias.  NVIDIA basically turned them into a mop using price/cost efficiency and commodization as a weapon
[22:54:32] <sparcdr> I honor the early 1990's movies using SGI's with Maya though
[22:54:40] <_william_> nvidia has been created by ex sgi guys
[22:54:46] <sparcdr> yeah I know
[22:54:57] <sparcdr> most of the ARB is controlled by NVIDIA
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[22:55:47] <sparcdr> Anyways, given the cards at the time, nothing could math the V8.  In 2001, a 128MB framebuffer was unheard of, now we're pushing dual 768MB configurations with 1GHz clocks
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[22:56:29] <_william_> for what kind of use ? playing at WoW ? :)
[22:56:46] <sparcdr> amazingly, I have no trouble compiling most popular open-source software on IRIX.  Nothing really has made me think twice about buying it, even though when I did I knew they killed MIPS.
[22:56:53] <Auralis> the quadros go up to 1.5gig ram now
[22:57:08] <trx> yeah, there beasty cards!
[22:57:11] <sparcdr> _william_, no, oil/science visualization, WoW is pathetic compared to Bioshock and STALKER
[22:57:29] <_william_> i don't know about this kind of games :)
[22:57:34] <_william_> i have no pc at home
[22:57:35] <trx> STALKER wasn't all it was hyped up to be :(
[22:57:41] <sparcdr> then go google images it
[22:57:50] <sparcdr> trx, it wasnt hyped at all in the US
[22:57:53] <_william_> my only intel based boxes are my u20 and macbookpro
[22:57:55] <sparcdr> no one knows about it really
[22:58:04] <_william_> the other box are either sparc or mips based
[22:58:05] <sparcdr> I have a MacBook Pro too... quite flexible machine
[22:58:16] <_william_> yes really nice for office use
[22:58:19] <sparcdr> My PPC box is, you guessed it, my PS3 :P
[22:58:27] <_william_> :)
[22:58:28] <sparcdr> not office
[22:58:31] <sparcdr> I use it for games
[22:58:32] <_william_> got several
[22:58:39] <sparcdr> It has a NVIDIA Geforce 8600 in it
[22:58:40] <_william_> powerbook, mac mini, RS6000 43P
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[22:58:42] <trx> sparcdr: over here my mate was following the release dates so much and talking about it so much that when it finally came out It wasnt as good as i'd hoped :P
[22:58:44] <sparcdr> I have the newest
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[22:58:49] <_william_> and i recetly sold my pegasos II mobo
[22:58:57] <sparcdr> trx still a good game, I didn't hear any hype
[22:59:17] <sparcdr> I stick to SPARC, x86/x86_64 and MIPS myself, no need for Alpha or ARM :P
[22:59:27] <trx> have they got any OS on the PS3 to use the cells yet? or just running on the PPC control chip?
[22:59:28] * wesolows is playing Duke Nukem Forever right now
[22:59:59] <sparcdr> trx: it's not a control chip, it's a hypervisor, and it only limits access to the PS3 system, it works, there's a SPU devkit
[23:00:21] <trx> ahh cool, dont really know much about it
[23:00:26] <sparcdr> You can run Fedora, Gentoo, and RHEL on it
[23:00:31] <sparcdr> Pretty simple too
[23:00:38] <sparcdr> there's even Java JDK for it, via IBM
[23:00:47] <sparcdr> of course that's for the pSeries, but it works
[23:00:48] <trx> just herard that linux only as of yet utilized the PPC and did not make use of the cells
[23:00:53] <sparcdr> It does
[23:01:03] <sparcdr> linux itself doesn't exactly, no, you're right
[23:01:06] <sparcdr> but you can code for it
[23:01:11] <trx> ahh i see
[23:01:14] <trx> sweet
[23:01:16] <sparcdr> It abstracts the SPU's like threads
[23:01:23] <sparcdr> not easy to compare to
[23:01:31] <sparcdr> Since SPU is an odd creature
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[23:01:36] <_william_> sparcdr: got an alhpaworkstation and an alpha server, but only for collection :)
[23:01:37] <sparcdr> but you can use 6 of 7 of them
[23:02:17] <sparcdr> 7th one restricts access.  Only gimp is RSX access, no DRI/OpenGL acceleration, no driver (No way to reverse engineer it easily either)
[23:02:52] <sparcdr> For an application server or transcoder it beats my Santa Rosa system more than twice over
[23:03:08] <trx> thats pretty cool
[23:03:19] <trx> what kindof apps you running?
[23:03:30] <trx> isnt limited memory capacity an issue?
[23:03:30] <sparcdr> Wifi works too these days, Terrasoft developed a driver. (YDL)
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[23:03:53] <sparcdr> it's not a problem, with how caching works, and you can use a swapfile.  Plus the disks are faster than typical PC.
[23:04:08] <trx> cool
[23:04:14] <trx> may have a look on ebay :P
[23:04:17] <sparcdr> It's not used for 3D, Linux fits in about 72MB ram easily.
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[23:04:31] <sparcdr> Game selection is weak, but I bought it for technical merit
[23:04:36] <sparcdr> well, that and as a media center
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[23:04:52] <sparcdr> they dropped the price and upped the disk space too
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[23:05:31] <trx> anyway, the reason i came in here.. im having a really strange issue (now experienced it on two different nevada builds (62 + 69) where randomly, after X number of reboots... i can NEVER get my graphical desktop back
[23:05:43] <sparcdr> burp
[23:05:56] <trx> always boots up and then says ******suspending Desktop login....********
[23:06:05] <trx> and then ****Resuming desktop login....*
[23:06:09] <sparcdr> trx, it doesnt come with a non-volitile Xorg config file
[23:06:16] <trx> and then ***suspending again (loops)***
[23:06:19] <sparcdr> run /usr/X11R6/bin/xorgconfig
[23:06:31] <trx> have tried re-running the xorgconfig to no avail
[23:06:31] <sparcdr> It has to autodetect settings
[23:06:43] <sparcdr> is there an xorg.conf in /etc/X11
[23:06:46] <trx> yup
[23:06:49] <sparcdr> hmm
[23:06:52] <sparcdr> what card?
[23:07:03] <trx> nvidia 7something :P
[23:07:05] <sparcdr> I had an occasional glitch with a Radeon Mobility 7500
[23:07:13] <sparcdr> did you download the nvidia blob?
[23:07:16] <trx> apologies
[23:07:17] <sparcdr> blob = driver
[23:07:18] <trx> its an ATI
[23:07:22] <sparcdr> ah
[23:07:24] <sparcdr> figures
[23:07:29] <trx> getting confused with my other box
[23:07:29] <sparcdr> What kind?
[23:07:34] <trx> but its not a mobility series
[23:07:39] <trx> cant honestly remember
[23:07:44] <trx> let me get a look at it
[23:07:47] <sparcdr> anything less than 9200 series doesn't have a chance in working 100% of the time
[23:07:52] <trx> *finds torch*
[23:08:05] <sparcdr> ATI's apathy in progress
[23:08:14] * sparcdr lights ATI on fire
[23:09:41] <trx> sapphire x1550 256M
[23:10:47] <trx> its not meant to be a graphics machine... usually use it in CLI as a server, but i want to try out a few graphical things in solaris... and having the desktop randomly not come up.. (and the only way of resolving it so far has been a re-install...(thank god for zpool import :P) is gettimng damn annoying)
[23:11:48] <sparcdr> svcadm disable cde-login and start it manually
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[23:11:57] <trx> any idea's on troubleshooting / fixing the problem without a re-install
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[23:12:23] <coffman> pull out the ati card, burn it, replace it
[23:13:00] <trx> is this symptom really just down to an ATI card?
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[23:13:57] <sparcdr> yeah trx
[23:14:15] <sparcdr> X will crash because of ATI cards, they cause STDs
[23:14:29] <coffman> trx: x1xxx is experimental in xorg
[23:15:12] <sparcdr> If they had cards that weren't closed with no drivers it'd be a better story.  At least NVIDIA has their closed drivers, better than nothing like ATI who likes being friends with GPL-licensed systems and Windows only
[23:15:51] <trx> sweet
[23:16:00] <trx> its good just to have an answer to this problem
[23:16:07] <sparcdr> I prefer FreeBSD and Solaris over Linux any time of the day, but if I had an ATI I'd burn it and dip it in a vat of radioactive dog poop while wearing a hazmat suit
[23:16:17] <trx> ive got a nvidia 6200 knocking around somewhere
[23:16:21] <trx> that will do the job
[23:16:44] <trx> cheers guys
[23:16:47] <sparcdr> my thinkpad's is integrated, and works decently because of years of hackery, so it's an exception
[23:16:50] <sparcdr> see ya
[23:17:02] <trx> ooh.. another question... any networking geeks around?
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[23:17:25] <trx> *dont worry, not about to ask for a n00b howto of getting a NAT cable router installed :P*
[23:17:54] <sparcdr> :o sorry no
[23:18:01] <sparcdr> unless it's ethernet connected
[23:18:13] <trx> am just wondering, all the cool stuff you can do in PF in bsd, like traffic shaping, and the equally cool stuff you can do in iptables on linux (with a little more fiddleage)...
[23:18:56] <trx> is there ANY of that stuff in opensolaris? all i can find is the old ipfiler firewall stuff that bsd moved away from aaaaages ago
[23:19:43] <wesolows> ask on networking-discuss; darren reed did some of that work and I know he lives there
[23:20:04] <sparcdr> sorry, no clue, yeah as wesolows said check out the list
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[23:21:01] <trx> #networking-discuss
[23:21:08] <sparcdr> im sure they're doing something, remember sun spent like 2 years on fire engine, so they had to port that old pf to work with the new stack, but with opensolaris there's more people and more time to address this.
[23:21:11] <trx> ?? is that solaris only, or just general networking?
[23:21:28] <sparcdr> it's solaris-only, im sure they can help you though
[23:21:35] <sparcdr> with bsd and general network issues
[23:21:44] <sparcdr> dont abuse them though!
[23:21:54] <wesolows> opensolaris networking
[23:21:57] <wesolows> not solaris-only
[23:22:13] <wesolows> not #networking-discuss, the mailing list
[23:22:21] <wesolows> maybe they have a channel too, I don't know
[23:22:29] <sparcdr> well moreover both solaris/open-solaris but networking in general since it relates.  many of these guys are IT employees, they deal with network configurations
[23:22:48] <wesolows> I don't know what #networking-discuss is
[23:22:57] <wesolows> networking-discuss at opensolaris dot org is about OpenSolaris networking
[23:23:03] <wesolows> and the people responsible for ipf are there
[23:23:08] <sparcdr> wesolows, it's a bunch of drunk hippies who "network" with each other
[23:23:17] * wesolows joins
[23:23:24] <sparcdr> .. lol
[23:23:26] * wesolows is a drunk hippie actually
[23:23:39] <sparcdr> im a non-drunk not-hippie guy
[23:23:42] <sparcdr> :P
[23:24:08] <sparcdr> btw FreeBSD told me to burn things, and with that said it's time to play around on my Thinkpad
[23:24:11] <trx> sounds like my kind of mailing list
[23:24:15] <trx> cheers guys
[23:24:56] <sparcdr> the daemons in my head told me to run around in circles for no purpose
[23:24:59] <sparcdr> :O
[23:25:24] <wesolows> the crazy man on the street told me to do something, but I'm too stoned to remember what it was
[23:25:27] <sparcdr> *cluck* *cluck* *bock* || "blah"
[23:25:34] <sparcdr> wesolows, terrible
[23:25:42] <sparcdr> he probably told you to smoke more
[23:25:48] <wesolows> done, and done
[23:26:41] <sparcdr> great, I personally am stoned off of music.  Pantera to be exact.
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[23:26:52] <wesolows> an excellent choice
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[23:27:21] <sparcdr> their music helps you overcome dumb people, trust me
[23:27:34] <wesolows> what about burning them?
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[23:27:52] <sparcdr> not exactly
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[23:28:46] <sparcdr> boils blood, steams pain, slaughter goats, shed skin, and 5 minutes alone (brb)
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[23:41:03] <nprice> so zfs supports capacity expansion by replacing small disks with larger disks now?
[23:41:17] <sparcdr> you mean ZFS migration
[23:41:37] <sparcdr> you can migrate pools
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[23:42:25] <nprice> I was told that on the ZFS mailing list it was said that now you can swap smaller drives in a pool with larger ones, one at a time, and make a storage area larger
[23:42:48] <nprice> i should probably go look at the list
[23:42:57] <nprice> a friend was talking with me about it earlier at lunch
[23:43:10] <sparcdr> http://textsnippets.com/posts/show/449 here's a script
[23:43:37] <sparcdr> you'd create a new pool afaik
[23:45:46] <sparcdr> I find it odd that Sun's leasing department took off early :P
[23:45:51] <sparcdr> don't they want my money!?
[23:46:25] <nprice> apparently not :)
[23:46:44] <nprice> looking over the zfs-discuss list I don't see what my friend was talking about... maybe he's full of it :)
[23:46:46] <sparcdr> apparently 2:40 PDT != 5:00 PDT to them
[23:46:56] <sparcdr> get off yer extended lunchbreak!
[23:47:37] <sparcdr> meh I gave them my contact info, better not doddle
[23:48:12] <nprice> dragonfly bsd is starting to look very interesting
[23:48:34] <sommerfeld> nprice: I managed to pull exactly that off recently.  replaced 44x73GB disks with 44x146GB disks.
[23:48:37] <sparcdr> they have a cool way of looking at SMP
[23:48:55] <sommerfeld> you need to reboot or export/import the pool to get ZFS to notice the disks are larger
[23:49:04] <sparcdr> although I prefer FreeBSD completeness and reliability wise, DragonFlyBSD is something I'd fiddle with
[23:49:23] <sparcdr> I'm sure FreeBSD will take some of the goodies
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[23:51:17] <e^ipi> freebsd performs better on SMP machines now anyways
[23:51:18] <sommerfeld> i need to write up a description of how I did it (in a maximally paranoid way)
[23:52:05] <nprice> dragonfly takes some of the neat stuff from each of the three major BSDs and incorporates it nicely :)
[23:52:17] <nprice> of course qnx has started to open up things now too
[23:52:24] <nprice> that's something i've been waiting a LONG time for
[23:53:54] <sommerfeld> nprice: did that answer your question on growing pools?
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[23:54:34] <nprice> sommerfeld, it did :)
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