[00:00:07] * dclarke nods
[00:00:12] <cmihai> And it's a nice way to slow down your pee cee
[00:00:32] <cmihai> Me, I just know know where I put my shit.
[00:00:47] <FireflyST> what is Beagle?
[00:00:48] <dclarke> good man .. keep up the good work
[00:00:58] <dclarke> gotta step away
[00:01:04] <cmihai> All these fancy search tools encourage sloth...
[00:01:07] <dclarke> back in a while I guess
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[00:01:11] <cmihai> See ya
[00:01:18] <FireflyST> that picture explains nothing
[00:01:28] <cmihai> FireflyST, like Google Desktop Search or Windows Search, but for Loonix / mono
[00:02:14] <cmihai> It just indexes all your hard drive, and stores metadata and history and emails in a db
[00:02:41] <cmihai> You know, for faster searching.
[00:03:01] <cmihai> It's also a horrible security issue if you ask me...
[00:04:01] <FireflyST> agreed
[00:06:37] <FireflyST> I want the plugin though
[00:06:47] <FireflyST> the one they talk about for Mozilla/Firefox
[00:07:17] <FireflyST> I REALLY need to get my sound driver fixed though
[00:07:20] <FireflyST> it's annoying as hell
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[00:10:26] * nrubsig is suprised by the... s .. p ... e... e... d... of opengrok when opening the history file
[00:14:11] *** TrogL has joined #opensolaris
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[00:16:36] * coffman wonders if he will die from vodka this weekend
[00:17:26] <nrubsig> coffman: we can always help with that...  high bridge... or the zoo's lion cage are helpfull... :-)
[00:17:52] <coffman> pah
[00:17:55] <wesolows> I've heard komodo dragons like vodka; you should offer them some
[00:18:22] <FireflyST> hisssssssssssss
[00:18:42] <victori> is there some solaris security feature that does not let you have net connectivity on install?
[00:18:55] <victori> I tried two three different nic cards none have net connectivity
[00:19:02] <victori> and they all show up as valid interface devices
[00:19:13] <cmihai> victori you probably messed up the configuration
[00:19:23] <victori> how so?
[00:19:30] <cmihai> And yes, there's "secure by default" that closes all services but ssh
[00:19:45] <victori> I am fairly adept with ifconfig/route
[00:19:50] <cmihai> On Solaris?
[00:19:52] <victori> I am sure it is configured correctly
[00:20:09] <victori> ifconfig sfe0 192.168.1.89 netmask 255.255.255.0 up ; route add default 192.168.1.1
[00:20:14] <victori> it isn't rocket science
[00:20:34] <victori> and yes I checked dladm
[00:20:39] <victori> shows up correctly
[00:20:42] <victori> all three
[00:20:55] <jmcp_> what do you mean by "not have net connectivity"?
[00:21:20] <victori> as in pinging the router gives no results
[00:21:27] <victori> ping any machine gives no results
[00:21:28] <cmihai> Maybe it blocks ICMP
[00:21:40] <cmihai> Try a dig / nslookup :-)
[00:21:42] <victori> pinging a valid dns host no results, and I tried to ssh into a valid machine
[00:21:43] <victori> and no
[00:21:50] <tsp> victori: sfe0 is the sis900 driver? I just tried one of those. check the last line of dmesg and see if it says something about a timeout
[00:21:57] <cmihai> Did you do as I've suggested yesterday and put the card in promiscous mode and snoop for traffic?
[00:21:58] <victori> sfe0 is the netgear driver
[00:22:01] <FireflyST> I have wierd problems where my wireless card drops the connection if I walk around the house
[00:22:06] <tsp> ah. wrong driver then :)
[00:22:09] <FireflyST> actually
[00:22:15] <cmihai> FireflyST, easy fix, STFU :P
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[00:22:22] <victori> could it be an irq issue or something?
[00:22:25] <aLeSD> hi all
[00:22:28] <FireflyST> I've had it happen about 10 ft from the router
[00:22:31] <FireflyST> sitting still
[00:22:36] <FireflyST> with it on my coffee table
[00:22:37] <aLeSD> solaris and opensolaris are the same ?
[00:22:39] <victori> I have seen this before on a debian install;    however freebsd/netbsd/centos work just fine on this type of configure
[00:22:40] <wesolows> no
[00:22:47] <FireflyST> and it drops my connection, and I have to reconnect
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[00:22:54] <victori> seems like osolaris and debian have this exact same symptom
[00:22:58] <wesolows> Solaris is Sun's distribution of OpenSolaris, which includes the code in OpenSolaris plus some other stuff.
[00:22:59] <cmihai> victori that makes no sense.
[00:23:06] <victori> I know
[00:23:07] <aLeSD> wesolows: are you telling to me ?
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[00:23:19] <wesolows> aLeSD: you're the one who asked :-)
[00:23:24] <victori> though I don't see why centos will work and debian won't the kernel revisions are off slightly
[00:23:24] <tsp> ah, I do have the sfe driver source, it's the dp.. wahtever/sis900 driver
[00:23:35] <tsp> victori: is there anything in dmesg about it?
[00:23:45] <victori> the fact it tells me it is up full duplex
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[00:24:03] <tsp> hmm, I never got that far :)
[00:24:03] <cmihai> Will you just answer my damn question already
[00:24:04] <aLeSD> wesolows: :) ... I've to learn solaris ... in few days .. I use linux ... how can I do ?
[00:24:07] <victori> 2. sfe driver for DP83815/83816 and SiS900 fast ethernet chipset  : DP83815 (NetGear FA312 in a Dell PowerEdge 1300, dual 500 Mhz cpu?s, thank to Fred)   ; which is the card I am using
[00:24:13] <cmihai> DID YOU TRY TO TCPDUMP (SNOOP)?
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[00:24:17] <victori> yes
[00:24:17] <wesolows> aLeSD: OpenSolaris is just a set of technology; it's not a product.  Distributors can take it and make products out of it.  Solaris Express is such a product, as are Belenix and a few others.
[00:24:19] <cmihai> And?
[00:24:28] <victori> snoop shows ping broadcasts
[00:24:36] <victori> however no tcp traffic seems visible
[00:24:37] <wesolows> aLeSD: Well, Solaris is Unix, so a lot of things should be familiar to you already.
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[00:25:07] <wesolows> aLeSD: docs.sun.com has some fairly good documentation that can help you through common tasks and explain how various subsystems like Zones and ZFS work.
[00:25:16] <aLeSD> wesolows I have to pratice it... witch product I have to install?
[00:25:28] <cmihai> Solaris 10 u 4
[00:25:32] <victori> these rackmount configurations are making my head spin
[00:25:40] <cmihai> It's the most likely product you're going to see in a production environment
[00:25:43] <wesolows> aLeSD: If you're learning about Solaris because you're planning to use it in production, you probably want Solaris 10, which is not based on OpenSolaris.
[00:25:54] <victori> I guess ill just stick to what works ; freebsd
[00:25:55] <cmihai> (well, to be honest, most still run 8 and 9, but forget about that)
[00:26:02] <wesolows> aLeSD: Some shops do use Nevada in production, but not very many, and for good reason.
[00:26:19] <aLeSD> wesolows: is it free?
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[00:26:24] <cmihai> You're best to stick with S10 u4, sun.com, download. Yes, it's free.
[00:26:28] <wesolows> aLeSD: If you're learning about Solaris because you want to become a developer, you should get SXCE.
[00:26:33] <wesolows> aLeSD: Yes, Solaris 10 costs $0.
[00:26:50] <aLeSD> ok I'm going to download it
[00:26:56] <aLeSD> thanks a lot
[00:27:03] <FireflyST> is there wireless for Solaris 10?
[00:27:14] <cmihai> wireless what
[00:27:16] <FireflyST> sorry
[00:27:18] <cmihai> Drivers?
[00:27:22] <FireflyST> support for wifi
[00:27:24] <FireflyST> yes
[00:27:29] <cmihai> Yes, use dladm, it's the new tool
[00:27:35] <FireflyST> that's what I thought
[00:27:39] <cmihai> wificonfig has been absoleted
[00:27:50] <cmihai> Read the HCL
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[00:28:02] <wesolows> It turns out that regular "wired" Ethernet works just as well without cables as so-called "wi-fi" Ethernet devices do.
[00:28:10] <FireflyST> has that been integrated into the latest Solaris?
[00:28:19] <wesolows> So save yourself some money and just unplug your ordinary Ethernet cable if you want "wireless"
[00:28:49] <FireflyST> wesolows: wtf are you talking about?
[00:29:05] <wesolows> FireflyST: wi-fi's abysmal speeds and nonexistent reliability.
[00:29:15] <FireflyST> uhh
[00:29:17] <cmihai> it's not so bad as of draft n
[00:29:26] <FireflyST> it's just fine for me in b72
[00:29:36] <wesolows> I actually find it less frustrating to just have 100% packet loss than to have 95% packet loss and 50 bits per second that wi-fi gives me.
[00:29:38] <cmihai> And it's pretty reliable for the same distance copper cabling is
[00:30:01] <wesolows> Perhaps my experiences have been unusually bad.
[00:30:37] <cmihai> And security ain't that bad either, unless you're stupid enough to use WEP :-)
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[00:30:53] <FireflyST> At home I'm still using WEP but I'm working on changing that
[00:30:54] <wesolows> WEP is just another typical abortion.
[00:31:18] <FireflyST> I still have some really old devices that still use WEP like my Amiga
[00:31:34] <cmihai> Takes me 2 minutes to hack into WEP... so that's not something I'd ever use.
[00:31:36] <nacho1> evening
[00:31:50] <cmihai> I use AES with my WiFi, much safer.
[00:32:06] * wesolows uses a cable, as the gods intended
[00:32:09] <nacho1> 2 mins? the best i did was 5
[00:32:18] <nacho1> :(
[00:32:23] <cmihai> Heh
[00:32:26] <wesolows> and if I'm not at my desk, I take that as a sign that I shouldn't be doing work.
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[00:32:33] <cmihai> You have to have scripts and a good system hehe
[00:32:53] <cmihai> But like nacho1 said, it's more of a brain teaser then protection
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[00:33:06] <nacho1> hmm, the problem is that generating the packages takes some time
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[00:38:03] <coffman> nrubsig: you going to that one? http://de.sun.com/sunnews/events/2007/20071203/
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[00:39:39] <nrubsig> coffman: if you give me 40 euro for the train ticket, yes
[00:40:06] <nrubsig> oh, wait
[00:40:12] <nrubsig> groan
[00:40:29] <nrubsig> Fees:
[00:40:30] <nrubsig> 99 Euro - 2 days conference - regular price
[00:40:31] <nrubsig> 49 Euro - 2 days conference - student price (ID necessary)
[00:40:34] <nrubsig> coffman: forget it.
[00:41:00] <coffman> they should put you on the guest list, pay your ticket and your room
[00:41:27] <cmihai> Hm... they actually ask for money at these things?
[00:42:25] <coffman> sounds stupid
[00:42:28] <asyd> \_o<
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[00:43:04] <cmihai> Yeah, none of the stuff I've been to ever charged for money... VMware, Microsoft, Oracle, Cisco, everything was free... and largely this seems to be a publicity stunt...
[00:43:44] <coffman> might be use less anyways, for stupid java devs or so
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[00:44:09] <cmihai> I doubt Java devs don't already know about NetBeans :-)
[00:44:41] <cmihai> "What is Solaris Nevada"  bla bla, looks like a publicity stunt than a real training / tech deal.
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[00:46:02] <cmihai> Oh well, it's still a nice way to get free swag :P. Sun mug, Solaris T-Shirt, Java bag, you know... but since they charge, it's not the same :-\
[00:50:27] <asyd> hmm, what is the shortname of the intel market action?
[00:50:56] <coffman> will call my "guys" at sun and ask for a free ticket
[00:52:00] <boyd> Morning, all
[00:52:19] <jmcp_> good morning
[00:52:19] <boyd> Hmm.. where's Joerg when you need him
[00:52:30] <asyd> :)
[00:52:31] <jmcp_> recharging his POSIX-compliant batteries
[00:52:37] <boyd> Hey, jmcp_ Saw the chaser last night <cheers />
[00:52:46] <jmcp_> boyd: it was excellent :-)
[00:52:49] <boyd> Yeah
[00:52:58] <PerterB> jmcp_: nah, he did already charge them in 1972
[00:54:03] <boyd> I can't believe I saw the police chief saying they weren't embarrassed by the incident and that they were being stupid. He freakin' well *should* be embarrassed. what, does he think all evildoers have a *sign* on their head!?
[00:54:25] <boyd> PerterB: They have been charged since 18 years
[00:54:56] <boyd> Anyone have an s10u4 iso (or dvd) handy?
[00:56:35] <boyd> I mean handy for you to look at, not send to me
[00:56:36] <PerterB> got one on the jumpstart server at work, what do you need?
[00:57:17] <boyd> I jusy copied the contents of mine (using star) and it complained that there were 2184 files with missing links.
[00:57:36] <boyd> Indeed, when I ls -l Solaris_10/Tools/Boot/usr/bin/cp it says there are 3 links to that file
[00:57:53] <boyd> But I can't see where the other ones are
[00:58:26] <Stric> find Solaris_10/Tools/Boot -inum <same inode as cp>
[00:58:50] <boyd> Yes, I know that.
[00:58:54] <boyd> # find Solaris_10/Tools/Boot -inum 54
[00:58:54] <boyd> larch:/a#
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[00:59:59] <Stric> hm. I get the same. s10u4 sparc dvd
[01:00:25] <boyd> The files in question seem to actually have hard links on UFS. Maybe it's a limitation of the iso creation process.
[01:01:07] <Stric> in the real /usr/bin, cp, mv, ln shares inode
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[01:02:25] <PerterB> yeah, I see the same link count 3 on the ISO, and in /usr/bin but *not* in /Solaris_10/Tools/Boot/usr/bin after setup_install_server
[01:02:26] <boyd> Oh, phooey, sorry that was the wrong inum before. It finds only cp though.
[01:02:40] <boyd> Hmm..
[01:02:52] <boyd> I saw no such errors when copying the x86 iso contents
[01:03:10] * boyd uses star, since setup_install_server is sloooooooow
[01:03:33] <delewis> boyd: just a blind star -copy? that's all that's needed?
[01:03:34] <PerterB> you should email Joerg and tell him star is broken
[01:04:01] <boyd> delewis: with -p (that may be default, but I can't be bothered trying to deduce it from the man page)
[01:04:27] <boyd> (or complaining about the man page, for that matter)
[01:05:05] <boyd> (since it's did get clearly documented in 1988)
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[01:20:19] <jbk> well that wasn't too painful (compiled the malo driver for b62)
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[01:25:14] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stevel
[01:26:27] * nrubsig greets stevel, slayer of horrible monsters, master of doom, lord of the web resources and the person who has signed up to fix some bugs in jive...
[01:27:17] <stevel> not bloody likely
[01:27:26] <nrubsig> stevel: you signed up for ir...
[01:27:27] <alanc> if this was #onnv, stevel would /kick you for associating his name with jive like that
[01:27:32] <nrubsig> s/ir/it/
[01:27:36] <boyd> Ha
[01:27:50] <Tpenta> he still could, he has ops
[01:27:52] <Tpenta> ;)
[01:28:09] <nrubsig> Tpenta: this is not #onnv and I am op there, too.
[01:28:17] <Tpenta> :)
[01:28:22] <stevel> i didn't sign up for anything
[01:28:30] <nrubsig> stevel: yes you did.
[01:28:48] *** nrubsig was kicked by stevel (no. i'm pretty sure i didn't.)
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[01:28:56] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig
[01:29:15] <nrubsig> <stevel> I am going to fix the emai lbugs in Jive.
[01:29:36] <nrubsig> Note the typo - it's authentic!
[01:29:39] <nrubsig> :-) :-)
[01:29:42] <stevel> <nrubsig> please kick me, i deserve it
[01:29:48] *** nrubsig was kicked by stevel (okay - but only cause you asked)
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[01:29:58] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig
[01:30:11] <nrubsig> <stevel> please kick me, alanc!
[01:30:26] <alanc> auto-rejoin is your friend 8-)
[01:30:43] *** nrubsig was kicked by alanc (okay - but only cause you asked)
[01:30:48] <SYS64738> how can I create the zfs dataset ?
[01:30:51] <stevel> lol
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[01:30:53] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig
[01:30:57] <nrubsig> erm
[01:31:13] <SYS64738> when I try to make a snapshot i receive and error about the dataset
[01:31:15] <alanc> hehe
[01:31:15] <SYS64738> cannot open 'zones/smtp1': dataset does not exist
[01:31:17] <Tpenta> still up in the air as to whether or not i will make it to the developer summit, but I'm trying
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[01:31:40] <alanc> nrubsig: you did say please...
[01:32:22] <nrubsig> alanc: That was stevel and you should've kicked HIM - not me.
[01:32:45] <alanc> it said <nrubsig> at the start of the line on my screen...
[01:32:51] <Tpenta> heh
[01:33:02] *** nrubsig is now known as stevel_
[01:33:03] <stevel> (16:33:26) nrubsig: alanc: ... you should've kicked ... me.
[01:33:08] <stevel> selective quoting is fun
[01:33:22] <boyd> SYS64738: You can only snapshot an existing dataset (which == filesystem for most purposes)
[01:33:25] <stevel_> Please kick stevel, he is an ursupator!
[01:33:32] *** stevel_ is now known as nrubsig
[01:33:47] <alanc> and I know stevel knows how to kick himself - we've seen him do it when he breaks the website
[01:33:52] <stevel> :-)
[01:34:06] <boyd> SYS64738: zfs list will show you what datasets you have
[01:34:07] <cmihai> ghost him!
[01:34:10] <nrubsig> alanc: Yeah, he breaks stuff and doesn't fix it.
[01:34:23] <nrubsig> typical stevel
[01:34:39] <SYS64738> boyd, why I haven't it in zfs list ?
[01:34:51] * nrubsig waits to be booted from the channel by stevel
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[01:35:22] * stevel has left to go answer the email that's piled up instead
[01:35:28] <SYS64738> I created a new zone but this time it hasn't create de dataset
[01:35:54] <richlowe> stevel: sod that, it'll all be boring.
[01:36:43] <nrubsig> richlowe: yeah, kicking innocent people who beg to get jive bugs fixed is so more exciting and anti-boring that you have to do it all the time... addictive it is!
[01:36:47] <boyd> SYS64738: is /zone a zfs dataset?
[01:36:55] <SYS64738> yes
[01:37:02] <boyd> Huh
[01:37:31] <boyd> Not sure then... if you can, try to look at the start of the output from zoneadm install
[01:37:36] * dclarke thinks "Hit CTRL-A to select all and then delete. email that is trash will be gone forever. Anything important will come back to you. "
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[01:38:16] <SYS64738> boyd, it told me that it cannot create the dataset because there was data inside
[01:38:41] <nrubsig> dclarke: sure... but maybe it's the bailiff who comes and takes the house away from you since you didn't pay the bills...
[01:38:42] <SYS64738> but I needed the local/ subdirectory to mount /usr/local before to install the zone
[01:39:20] <dclarke> nrubsig : proof that I am correct. That email comes back to you in the form of a person.
[01:39:42] <dclarke> nrubsig: you get an email for your mortgage ?
[01:40:25] <nrubsig> dclarke: I don't have a mortgage, therefore no.
[01:40:29] <dclarke> cool
[01:40:38] <boyd> SYS64738: I don't understand. you had a directory already called /zone/smtp1 ?
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[01:40:54] <dclarke> in that case the recent meltdown of finance in the USA will not touch you too too much
[01:40:58] <boyd> ... with /zone/smtp1/local inside?
[01:41:10] <SYS64738> y
[01:41:20] <boyd> Umm... don't do that
[01:41:37] <SYS64738> why ?
[01:41:46] <boyd> You already found out
[01:42:14] <dclarke> SYS64738 : http://www.sys64738.net/
[01:42:24] <boyd> So, let me get this straight, you want to mount a /usr/local fs inside the zone, and you want it to be a zfs filesystem, right?
[01:42:32] <SYS64738> what's up If I add a dataset with zonecfg ?
[01:42:55] <SYS64738> oh I understood
[01:43:00] <SYS64738> /usr/local is ufs
[01:43:43] <boyd> Ok, then you can do that with add fs but the /zone/smtp1 directory should not exist before zoneadm install
[01:43:52] <boyd> put the local fs somewhere else.
[01:43:59] <SYS64738> ok
[01:44:02] <SYS64738> thanks
[01:44:05] <boyd> np
[01:48:12] <SYS64738> good night
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[01:51:51] <Tempt> Morning all
[01:53:15] <jsmith12> hi! i am relatively new to the world of Unix / Linux and similar OSes. I am using Slackware for about 2 years now, as a desktop system. I like discovering, and experimenting with things. What could Solaris offer me, that Slackware Linux couldn't?
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[01:53:56] <wesolows> DTrace.  ZFS.  Zones.  World-class developer tools like ptools and mdb.
[01:53:57] <PerterB> it will make you incredibly popular with the opposite sex
[01:53:58] <Tempt> jsmith12: Zones, zfs, dtrace, different 'feel'
[01:54:19] <Tempt> The admiration of your friends and peers.
[01:54:22] <wesolows> Properly versioned, scoped libraries.
[01:54:37] <wesolows> Documented interface stability (on Solaris).
[01:55:15] <jsmith12> Zones?
[01:55:22] <wesolows> A linker that supports an amazingly bizarre plethora of options to cater to your every whim.
[01:55:38] <wesolows> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zones/
[01:57:04] <jmcp_> jsmith12: have you heard of chroot and BSD jails?
[01:57:15] <jsmith12> what about sys requirements? I don't want something that requires too much horsepower to show me some pretty icons...
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[01:57:22] <jmcp_> jsmith12: zones are BSD jails on steriods, locked in a SuperMax facility
[01:57:52] <nachox> jsmith12: my advice is that you try it yourself first, get the os, get the documentation and use it for a little while, then come back and you tell us what opensolaris had to offer you
[01:58:06] <jmcp_> jsmith12: http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl for the hardware compatibility list
[01:58:09] <Cass> reasonably modern system, 512 meg ram will do the trick ...
[01:58:22] <jsmith12> 512?
[01:58:23] <richlowe> unless you try and use the SDX installer.
[01:58:28] <Cass> im typing this in a vmware instance just now .. flies :-)
[01:58:39] <jmcp_> jsmith12: what are the specs on your existing system?
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[01:59:03] <jsmith12> Sempron 64 2600+, 256MB of RAM
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[01:59:17] <rvalles> hi
[01:59:29] <rvalles> anything new on the XVR-1000 gfx card?
[01:59:41] <jmcp_> jsmith12: I'd add another 256Mb of ram, preferably more. apart from that, should be fine
[01:59:43] <Cass> that sounds like a text mode install to me, should be usable though, 512 would be better
[01:59:53] <jmcp_> yeah, it'll do a text mode install
[02:00:15] <Cass> what desktop do you run on slack ?
[02:00:28] <jsmith12> i don't run desktop enviroments
[02:00:33] <Cass> even better
[02:00:36] <jsmith12> it was window maker before
[02:00:41] <Cass> consider solaris a flying machine
[02:00:42] <jsmith12> now it's wmii
[02:00:45] <jmcp_> jsmith12: a light-weight one, good choice
[02:00:47] <jsmith12> a tiling wm
[02:01:06] <jsmith12> i always make good choices
[02:01:10] <jmcp_> :)
[02:01:11] <jsmith12> Slack was one of hem
[02:01:17] * Cass goes off to google wmii
[02:01:25] <jsmith12> well
[02:01:45] <jsmith12> not anyone likes tiling window menagers
[02:02:01] <jsmith12> but for me, they feel great
[02:02:19] <rvalles> when a wm supports both things
[02:02:25] <rvalles> having tiling cannot be bad
[02:02:27] <jsmith12> it does
[02:02:39] <jsmith12> it has a floating layer too
[02:02:49] <rvalles> yeah, I know
[02:04:02] <Cass> looks a bit like dtwm
[02:04:35] <rvalles> ion3, xfwm, wmii, fluxbox
[02:04:38] <rvalles> are decent
[02:04:55] <rvalles> for some reason, I cannot work with window maker and similar wms
[02:05:08] <alanc> rvalles: what new do you expect on a 5-year old graphics card that hasn't been made/sold in several years?
[02:05:25] <rvalles> alanc: something like, say, some support
[02:05:37] <rvalles> alanc: having basic 2d on xorg would be great.
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[02:06:03] <rvalles> in fact, having any gfx at all
[02:06:20] <rvalles> openprom console so white, slow and ugly.
[02:06:51] <alanc> XVR-1000 will only get Xorg support if Martux or some other community project does it
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[02:07:14] <dlg> is there doco for the xvr1000?
[02:07:19] <alanc> the SPARC graphics group can't even get Xorg support done for the cards they still sell at the moment
[02:07:47] <alanc> dlg: you could ask on the new open docs wiki - that was a Sun created card, not OEM'ed, so the docs may be openable
[02:08:03] <dlg> id really like someone other than me to ask for something
[02:08:10] <alanc> see simon phipps' blog for details
[02:08:12] <rvalles> alanc: ouch.
[02:08:21] <richlowe> alanc: dlg knows the details, he's asked for pretty much every doc listed...
[02:08:34] <jsmith12> sorry, one more question. If i don't use X, or just a minimal window menager, would it run fine on 256 megs? I don't feel like spending money i don't have, and I really don't mind CLI way of doing things...
[02:08:36] <dlg> yeah
[02:08:49] <Cass> jsmith12: yep it sure would :-)
[02:09:00] <Cass> just do a text install
[02:09:25] <jsmith12> what's the deal with the install?
[02:09:30] <dlg> they should have called it the ForDLGDocs, not FOSSDocs
[02:09:39] <jsmith12> how can an install be hardware intensive?
[02:09:52] <Cass> jsmith12: mem requirements on installer, ramdisk contents or some other jiggerpokery
[02:10:03] <Cass> not streamlined as much as it could be
[02:10:24] <Cass> its 512 or 768 im sure
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[02:11:09] <jsmith12> on slack we have only ncurses based install. it's great :) Maybe i'll try it. Thanks for your time
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[02:11:39] <g4lt-sb100> Cass, SXDE needs 768, SXCE needs 256
[02:11:50] <Cass> sxce is 256 ?
[02:11:59] <g4lt-sb100> yup, still is
[02:12:03] <Cass> was sure it failed on 512 for me
[02:12:08] <Cass> ahh well :-)
[02:12:15] <Cass> nowt wrong wth text
[02:12:18] <g4lt-sb100> hence you were using the SXDE install
[02:12:39] <LeftWing> It needs a contiguous 256 without crazy memory holes, if memory serves.  Which you could have if you use crufty or older x86 hardware.
[02:12:40] <Cass> yeah for b64a i was but i just install 72 on a 512 vmware image and got hung up
[02:12:51] <Cass> switched to text and it was fine
[02:13:06] <Cass> i didnt select the sxde option
[02:13:19] <g4lt-sb100> mine blew up on SXCE graphical because of the geforce4 go chip :(
[02:13:50] <Cass> but it works once intstalled right ?
[02:14:20] <g4lt-sb100> yup, I even installed SUNWspro
[02:14:36] <stevel> planet.os.o and get.os.o are back up now
[02:14:51] <Cass> g4lt-sb100: good if you know what the hell to program on it :-)
[02:15:12] <g4lt-sb100> cass basically, I use SXDE to do a lot of make installs ;P
[02:15:28] <Cass> even normal compiles i struggled with ..  xchat for instance neede to be stripped of all features b4 it would compile
[02:15:35] <Cass> heh, yeah make install is my limit
[02:16:45] <g4lt-sb100> not really.  2.6.2 only needed to lose NLS, but UTF8 to the rescue
[02:17:32] <g4lt-sb100> that, and I told it to not include python, because I refuse to support a whitspace-dependent language
[02:17:35] <Cass> cant remember the latest ver i built , but i had to remove most stuff and the utf thing did not get around the errors
[02:17:48] <Cass> yeah python was a removed options
[02:18:24] <Cass> i care not now as pidgin seems to be fine for irc
[02:18:25] <g4lt-sb100> ahh, that was a personal choic in my case, so I never knew it was needed
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[02:18:49] <Cass> if only pidgin would allow black background/green text id be fully happy
[02:19:32] <g4lt-sb100> well, i'm being forced into pidgin, one of my less technosavvy friends wants to use <spit>msn messuper
[02:19:49] <Cass> :-D  theres always one !
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[02:35:52] <boyd> Is there a 5 minute way to get JDS to use an OTF font?
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[02:37:02] <Cass> anyone running zfs as root on sxce ?
[02:37:17] <jbk> yes
[02:37:26] <Cass> easy to get going is it ?
[02:37:40] <dclarke> jbk : ! hello !
[02:37:55] <dclarke> jbk : sorry mercury was offline so damn long
[02:38:07] <jbk> as long as you don't mind sparing 5-6gb for a ufs fs to opy from
[02:38:20] <dclarke> jbk : I had to kill a cat to resurrect an Opteron server and I just never got around to plugging in mercury again
[02:38:35] <boyd> dclarke: You must be running low on cats.
[02:38:43] * dclarke goes back to cleaning out the Blastwave basement : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/stuff/stellar/stellarium_003.png
[02:38:44] <Cass> jbk :- not at all :-)
[02:39:26] * boyd tries to work out what that screenshot has to do with cleaning out the basement
[02:39:29] <nachox> hi dennis :)
[02:40:02] <dclarke> boyd : I have reams and reams of crap in the filesystems .. lots of screenshots of curd
[02:40:09] <dclarke> nachox: hello
[02:40:10] <Cass> been reading some web stuff on how to do it, just wondered if there was an eary way of doing it these days .. since the latest sxce mentions zfs on boot
[02:40:24] <boyd> dclarke: Oh, *virtual* basement
[02:40:30] <jbk> Cass: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs/boot/zfsboot-manual/
[02:40:33] <dclarke> boyd : like yeah .. ZFS is filling up here
[02:40:43] <Cass> jbk .. cool thx
[02:40:45] <jbk> make a small slice, install to that (ufs) then copy
[02:40:49] <jbk> per instructions
[02:41:03] * dclarke finds gtkpod screenshots http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/stuff/gtkpod/gtkpod_107.png
[02:41:22] <jbk> the other method (patched dvd/cd image) doesnt' seem to work with the latest sxce releases
[02:41:51] <Cass> i like the idea of copy ..
[02:42:04] * dclarke digs up a picture of Alan Hargreaves pre-shave http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/shaver_88966.jpg
[02:42:42] <boyd> Wow... it's much... less grey
[02:43:52] <Symmetria> lo all
[02:44:15] * dclarke finds the old Blastwave datacenter http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/datacenter/datacenter2.jpg
[02:44:28] <boyd> dclarke: This is like archaeology
[02:44:55] <Cass> jbk, that looks straightforward enough .. cheers :-)
[02:45:17] * dclarke finds an old copy of Jonathan Schwartz's blog http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/jonathan.jpg
[02:45:54] <g4lt-sb100> dclarke, bah, i wanted to see the IPX you do all the 2.5.1 compiles on ;P
[02:46:09] * boyd wonders if Jonathan still likes Carly
[02:46:10] <jbk> i'm actually playing around a bit with zfs root...
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[02:46:22] <jbk> for kicks, i tried taking a b70 iso
[02:46:37] <jbk> essentially doing a pkgadd -R /newfs (using order file)
[02:46:42] <g4lt-sb100> boyd, probably a LOT more now, since she effectively removed the last decent competitor ;P
[02:46:49] <jbk> update the boot archive
[02:46:54] <jbk> and have been trying to get it to boot
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[02:47:03] <jbk> it's almost there
[02:47:06] <boyd> g4lt-sb100: :)
[02:47:24] <jbk> heh
[02:47:39] * Symmetria notes he needs to order some fairly large sun servers shortly
[02:47:39] <jbk> she consulted at my previous company when they merged with a competitor
[02:47:52] <Symmetria> heh finally finished the design and testing of our new network today
[02:47:57] <g4lt-sb100> however, if he starts to emulate her, we get out the torches and rope
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[02:48:08] <Symmetria> which to my knowledge post rollout will be the fastest academic network ont eh planet
[02:48:54] <Cass> jbk, for kicks, sounds like a great way of spending an evening ;- ) id use live upgrade myself . lol
[02:49:36] <jbk> unfortunately, live upgrade doesn't work with zfs /
[02:49:50] <Cass> ahh always a caveat :-(
[02:50:10] <jbk> yeah..
[02:50:27] <Cass> suppose its what keeps things interesting though :-)
[02:50:28] <jbk> but on the plus side, the cheap ($10) 802.11g card I bought works now under solaris
[02:50:29] * dclarke finds the front porch : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/front.html
[02:50:48] <Cass> naitivly ?
[02:50:49] <jbk> since whatever group in broadcom that's responsible for their wireless chips suck
[02:50:53] <jbk> yes
[02:50:58] <jamesd> dclarke, is that today?
[02:51:03] <jbk> brb
[02:51:06] <dclarke> a winter ago
[02:51:13] <Symmetria> anyone here know if there is any hope of doing any QinQ stuff on solaris in the near future?
[02:51:25] <Cass> cool ... thats what stops me doing a full install on my laptop of solaris .. no wifi
[02:51:32] <jamesd> okay.. i was going to say.. its too early for that... but finland/sweeden has allready got its first snow
[02:51:49] <dclarke> I was shopping for snow tires today
[02:52:01] <dclarke> I think that Blizzaks are the way to go
[02:52:40] <unixware> jamesd 0.0
[02:52:49] * dclarke finds some back yard photography http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/images/unknown_flower_000_m.jpg
[02:53:22] <unixware> jamesd, do u know why is that?
[02:54:08] <unixware> just take a look in here http://uforeview.tripod.com/haarp.html
[02:54:24] <dclarke> geez .. I have some fairly decent apples growing in my backyard http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/images/green_apple_cluster_001_m.jpg
[02:55:10] <unixware> dclarke :P
[02:57:11] <jamesd> unixware, no idea..
[02:57:32] <unixware> jamesd take a llok to the link i send
[02:57:43] <unixware> thats why the global warming
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[02:58:55] <jamesd> unixware, global warming or just a another cycle of weather the scientists can't even tell, they change weekly.
[02:59:25] <unixware> jamesd thats is haarp ...
[02:59:28] <Cass> i want one of those ..  always sunny in scotland if i had one :-)
[03:00:25] <jbk> well that didn't work :)
[03:00:32] * dclarke finally hits the really stupid stuff http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/stuff/rednecks16.jpg
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[03:01:13] <Cass> jbk?  live upgrade 2.0 ?
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[03:01:28] * dclarke finds the sparc 20 http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/stuff/stack.jpg
[03:02:17] <jamesd> dclarke, i saw a ss10 in our datacenter....   no its not being used, but it still sitting there...
[03:02:20] <jamesd> in a rack
[03:02:41] <dclarke> that stuff never dies
[03:02:57] <dclarke> I'm going to fire off a backup and then drop this in a desk drawer
[03:03:02] <dclarke> maybe never to be seen again
[03:03:07] <dclarke> and .. not missed either
[03:03:14] <dclarke> gotta walk away .. and find coffee
[03:03:19] <dclarke> be back in a while
[03:03:22] <jamesd> in the next couple months we will be decommisioning an ultra 2,  then a month after that we should be getting rid of a  e250
[03:04:13] <CIA-24> jdunham: 6415440 iSCSI target needs persistent reserve support
[03:06:39] <elektronkind> SunOS 5.10: uucico patch
[03:06:44] * elektronkind sighs
[03:07:06] <richlowe> elektronkind: you mean uucp isn't important to you? :)
[03:07:09] <elektronkind> uucp outlives mobile IP
[03:07:14] <elektronkind> ;)
[03:07:15] <Tempt> uucp works.
[03:08:17] * elektronkind wonders if Tempt receives his site's email via weekly mailed QIC tape
[03:08:36] <Tempt> Hah.
[03:08:49] * wesolows still uses fidonet
[03:09:22] <elektronkind> fidonet!
[03:09:41] <elektronkind> I ran a PCBoard BBS with a fidonet feed
[03:09:55] <cmihai> http://xkcd.com/163/
[03:10:19] <elektronkind> I was only 15 at the time and barely knew what I was doing, but people liked my 19200 courier modem
[03:10:44] <wesolows> it is now possible to know exactly how old you are :-)
[03:11:20] <elektronkind> hah
[03:11:33] * elektronkind mumbles about being hill+1 this october
[03:11:41] * Tempt is also known as 3:633/436
[03:11:54] <wesolows> hmm, in that case you really did have one hell of a modem
[03:12:02] <wesolows> 19200 couriers cost a mint in the early 90s
[03:12:12] <wesolows> I was going to guess 29
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[03:14:05] <Tempt> fidonet used to be entertaining
[03:15:58] <elektronkind> wesolows: it was a shared expence with my co-admin at the time
[03:16:43] <elektronkind> learned novel by running it all off IPX too
[03:17:31] <elektronkind> then I discovered IP, and played hooky from college to work at a local ISP
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[03:17:58] <elektronkind> ah, the days of ftp via email
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[03:19:32] <unixware> any one have install by ipx?
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[03:20:55] <elektronkind> install by ipx?
[03:21:10] * elektronkind tilts his head at unixware
[03:21:24] <unixware> yeah
[03:21:29] <unixware> network install
[03:22:02] <elektronkind> never did that
[03:22:45] <unixware> by the eeprom and a network server that holds the image
[03:23:14] <xzavier> jumpstart =)
[03:23:17] <elektronkind> you mean jumpstart?
[03:23:31] <elektronkind> that has nothing to do with the protocol IPX :)
[03:24:03] <elektronkind> jumpstart is de rigeur in my shop
[03:24:15] <unixware> ahh
[03:24:16] <elektronkind> er rigueur
[03:24:46] <elektronkind> dhcp+tftp+nfs is what jumpstart is
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[03:26:03] <unixware> i see :)
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[03:39:16] <cmihai> http://bp2.blogger.com/_YFgpCPoV-8g/Runl5pfFuwI/AAAAAAAAACM/_suPyWtTvuY/s1600-h/bsd-is-gpl-now-ccna.jpg - BSD now GPL, according to Cisco CCNA
[03:40:32] <jbk> ignoring the obvious wrongness, what the hell does that have to do with networking?
[03:40:44] <cmihai> Dunno, ask Cizcooe
[03:41:03] <cmihai> <travers> why would a question like that even matter on a networking test?
[03:41:12] <cmihai> Heh, you're no the only one to think that.
[03:41:32] <cmihai> Still, you know the sad part?
[03:41:45] <cmihai> I could actually fail a shitty little test like this because of obviously wrong questions.
[03:42:51] * elektronkind wonders who makes that "UNIX" OS
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[03:43:36] <cmihai> Trust me, there are worse questions than this...
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[03:43:50] <elektronkind> the irony there is that "BSD" is also the name of the license its/they are released under
[03:44:22] <the-decider> BSD now GPL?  Wow, sounds like a horror film written by Theo De Raadt.
[03:44:58] <elektronkind> sounds like a tragedy only shaespeare could pen
[03:45:06] * dlg yawn
[03:45:16] <the-decider> yeah, it'd be a boring movie.
[03:45:29] <the-decider> it'd just be a reading of /. comments
[03:47:07] <elektronkind> "Tho give back, or not to give back, that is the question. Whether it is nobler in the greater cause to do so, or not because our morals are selective"
[03:47:14] <elektronkind> s/tho/to
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[03:51:04] <jbk> Thy memory, she is as leaky as an unstaunched wench
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[04:06:14] <oninoshiko> is there a way to only accept an IP from a specific mac address?
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[04:06:51] <jamesd> oninoshiko,  google firewall
[04:07:45] <oninoshiko> im aware of this, I cant find any documention about how to do it using the ipfilters firewall in solaris
[04:08:05] <cmihai> Well, duh
[04:08:38] <cmihai> Firewalls work on packets not frames
[04:08:42] <cmihai> bridges work on those
[04:08:49] <cmihai> you want a bridge filter to mess with frames
[04:08:52] <Tempt> what about bridging firewalls
[04:09:05] <cmihai> You want MAC security right?
[04:09:11] <oninoshiko> yes.
[04:09:33] <cmihai> You do that on the switch... actually.
[04:09:58] <cmihai> Get Cisco or Allied Telesyn or whatever switches with MAC security...
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[04:15:11] <oninoshiko> the cisco i have only allows me to limit the mac addresses allowed to a specific port. i want to only permit a packet if it's IP is from the associated MAC
[04:15:49] <Tempt> boyd: ping
[04:15:50] <Tempt> boyd: ping
[04:15:56] <nachox> anyone familiar with cisco vpn hardware?
[04:16:03] <the-decider> burn it.
[04:16:06] <cmihai> oninoshiko, some IDS should help you I guess.
[04:16:23] * jamesd uses cisco vpn, via  rova at work.. but i don't know anything about the hardware
[04:16:25] <cmihai> nachox, I've got ASA VPN concentrators and some PIX experience. hat's the issue
[04:16:26] <boyd> Tempt: pong
[04:17:00] <cmihai> oninoshiko, well, you could also use arpwatch
[04:17:22] <cmihai> It's not preventive, but it does warn you when some bloke with another MAC uses an IP
[04:17:42] <cmihai> So you can take corrective measures (crack his skull etc)
[04:18:20] <nachox> cmang: do you have any idea if it is possible to configure how many translations those read in the ike handshake before giving up?
[04:19:00] <nachox> err, cmihai
[04:19:28] <cmihai> The WebVPN or the VPN VPN?
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[04:19:57] <nachox> i dont know which it is, i'm trying to identify it actually
[04:20:15] <cmihai> show crypto ipsec sa
[04:20:36] <nachox> i cant, i'm in the outside
[04:20:40] <cmihai> show isakmp sa
[04:20:51] <cmihai> Oh
[04:20:59] <cmihai> Outside sucks :P
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[04:22:03] <cmihai> nachox, what model do you have? ASA or PIX?
[04:22:08] <nachox> cmihai: i used ike-scan to see how many translations it accepted but i got something weird
[04:22:13] <nachox> 243
[04:22:40] <nachox> so far, i only know it is a cisco vpn concentrator
[04:23:00] <cmihai> Oh ;-\
[04:23:09] <nachox> but i dont know the model. knowing whether that can be configured in cisco hardware would be usefull
[04:23:18] <oninoshiko> unfortunately by the time arpwatch shows anything, damage could already be done
[04:23:36] <cmihai> He can change the MAC and do the damage anyway
[04:23:45] <cmihai> Don't rely on that...
[04:23:58] <oninoshiko> not if i limit it to the port on the switch
[04:24:18] <cmihai> That's done with MAC security on the switch.
[04:24:22] <oninoshiko> yes
[04:24:25] <cmihai> One unique MAC per port.
[04:24:29] <oninoshiko> yes
[04:24:41] <cmihai> With arpwatch and managed switches you can easily track back to what port was used.
[04:24:54] <cmihai> I've done this a couple of times, and it really works well.
[04:25:17] <cmihai> You do the IP limitations on the router. If you have MAC security in place, the rest is not an issue.
[04:25:55] <cmihai> Besides, having it on the switch doesn't allow them to listen to traffic and find the proper MAC address either.
[04:26:11] <cmihai> Doing it on the router would be... pointless. He can still talk to other hosts.
[04:26:43] <oninoshiko> but i have multiple machines that are accessing one solaris box. i need to make sure the IP is coming from the correct mac address, just filtering on the switch only tells me the mac address is assocated with the correct port, but changing the IP is trivial
[04:27:12] <oninoshiko> there is no router, this network is not accessible directly from the internet
[04:27:19] <cmihai> No, filtering on the switch prevents ANY traffic on that port.
[04:28:10] <cmihai> Think of it this way: you filter on MAC on the switches
[04:28:17] <cmihai> and filter the IP on the box.
[04:28:18] <oninoshiko> from spoofed MACs, they could leave the MAC alone and change the IP
[04:28:29] <cmihai> you don't get it.
[04:28:31] <oninoshiko> to the IP of another valid machine
[04:29:27] <cmihai> Besides, you really shouldn't rely on this to protect your machine. Make sure you have proper access control in place, and it shouldn't be an issue.
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[04:32:45] <nachox> that reminds me, one time i went to a place where they were using 2 servers to route mail that came from an exchange, if the machine the exchange was supposed to deliver mail to failed, people were supposed to login to the other machine and change it's ip
[04:33:08] * jmcp_ boggles
[04:33:13] <jmcp_> nachox: you're serious?
[04:33:28] <nachox> there was a slight problem, both boxes were connected to a switch that remembered the mac-ip addresses pair
[04:33:39] <nachox> you can guess what happened next
[04:34:05] <jmcp_> yeah
[04:34:16] <cmihai> postfix + redirect + CARP = <3
[04:34:32] <cmihai> You know, HA clusters...not.. log in and change IP ffs
[04:34:33] <flyingparchment> nachox: that sounds like something we'd do
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[04:34:58] <nachox> changing the ip of the box effectively locked it out from the net
[04:35:33] <nachox> the first box because it had crashed (otherwise they wouldnt change the ip) and the other because of the switch
[04:36:00] <cmihai> fun
[04:36:13] <nachox> only when you dont have to debug it
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[04:36:52] <nachox> flyingparchment: your employee should die a really painfull death
[04:36:59] <oninoshiko> your right i dont get it. if i have "mac A" on machine with "IP A" and "mac B" on another machine with "IP B" how does this affect someone from "machine A" from setting the ip to "IP B"? the switch doesnt care, because it's still getting the right MAC on the right port. the server's firewall doesnt care because its getting the "IP B" which is permitted.
[04:37:12] <nachox> *employer
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[04:37:36] <flyingparchment> our HA-database solution (on mysql!) is: when the master crashes, edit the config file and change to the backup master
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[04:39:03] <nachox> doesnt mysql support some sort of ha?
[04:39:23] <flyingparchment> there's mysql cluster, but the GA version has some annoying limitations
[04:39:36] <nachox> about postgre?
[04:40:09] <flyingparchment> pg might work, but we're unlikely to change.  mysql is 'good enough'
[04:40:13] <elektronkind> there's clustering, and then there's replication
[04:40:24] <elektronkind> one doesn't mean the other
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[04:50:32] <hile_> hey electronkind
[04:50:42] <elektronkind> hey voy
[04:50:46] <elektronkind> er hile_
[04:51:03] <elektronkind> missed the ;'c
[05:05:02] <jbk> hmm anyone happen to know which magical key combination escapes from the console back to the sp on a v40z?
[05:05:10] <flyingparchment> ^E c .
[05:05:18] <jbk> ahh of course
[05:05:35] <jbk> not #~ ~. #. or any of the other ones :)
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[05:16:57] <Tempt> boyd: Was going to suggest lunch, but got tied up with workplace irritations
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[05:17:09] <Tempt> boyd: Fancy a beer this arvo?
[05:21:43] <elektronkind> jbk: we call ^E c . the "vulcan neck pinch"
[05:22:07] <elektronkind> quite the finger twister
[05:23:15] <flyingparchment> nice and easy to type on dvorak :)
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[05:46:14] <iscool> hola
[05:46:17] <nachox> let me guess, sun solve is down again
[05:46:42] <iscool> alguno me podria dar una informacion sobre la mannera de administrar los pasword y las cuentas en solaris
[05:46:45] <iscool> ??
[05:47:41] <iscool> i need info about -admin of the user an password  of the solaris
[05:48:01] <nachox> iscool: exactly what information?
[05:48:27] <nachox> iscool: there is the basic admin guide at docs,sun.com
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[05:49:20] <iscool> mm
[05:51:10] <iscool> i need securyity method that prevents the use of sniffer
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[05:53:41] <iscool> ??
[05:54:57] <nachox> iscool: maybe you should try #opensolaris-es
[05:54:58] <cmihai> iscool, you can't prevent that.
[05:55:11] <cmihai> iscool, but you can use IPSEC or VPN's to make it pointless.
[05:59:17] <iscool> mmm i need protection that telnet.exe
[05:59:35] <iscool> this is a sniffer for w lan
[05:59:51] <Tempt> easy
[05:59:52] <Tempt> don't use telnet
[05:59:57] <Tempt> use ssh
[06:00:15] <CIA-24> bholler: 6577948 mach_alloc_mwait leaks memory when a CPU fails to start, 6588054 panic() in mach_alloc_mwait() should be changed to degraded operation..., 6596141 Solaris should not use an unmodified MWAIT idle loop on AMD 10h due to increased power consumption
[06:00:17] <cmihai> Use AES encryption for your WLAN
[06:00:18] <iscool> ssh is a very dangerous
[06:00:18] <nachox> telnet is evil
[06:00:26] <Tempt> I know
[06:00:27] <cmihai> iscool, ssh very dangerous?
[06:01:00] <Tempt> I saw ssh tear someone's arm off the other day
[06:01:01] <Tempt> bloody sshes are roaming the streets at night killing people
[06:01:01] <cmihai> Bloody hell, is his clueless troll night
[06:01:25] <nachox> Tempt: i dont know about that, but i'm sure theo would rip your arm off these days if you say gpl :)
[06:01:47] <Tempt> nachox: Ha!
[06:02:00] <cmihai> ./sshutuptheo
[06:02:13] <cmihai> Is the only know ssh exploit...
[06:02:22] <Tempt> Hey
[06:02:25] <Tempt> Give Theo a break
[06:02:32] <cmihai> No, that's the actual name...
[06:02:35] <nachox> theo is actually right, but it is still an annoying mofo :)
[06:02:36] <cmihai> Gobbles has a sense of humour
[06:02:48] <Tempt> I don't understand why people take so much shit from psychotic nutcases like RMS and ESR and Torvalds and then call Theo problematic
[06:02:51] <Tempt> I mean, come on ...
[06:03:17] <e^ipi> why *do* people listen to ESR anyways?
[06:03:28] <e^ipi> linus & RMS have produced things at least
[06:03:28] <cmihai> Cuz he's like America
[06:03:30] <Tempt> Because he threatens to shoot anyone who doesn't?
[06:03:33] <e^ipi> ESR is just a windbag
[06:03:40] <cmihai> Armed and clueless.
[06:03:46] <Tempt> ESR is particularly insane
[06:03:47] <cmihai> :-)
[06:03:48] <boyd> Yeah, it's the guns, I reckon
[06:03:55] <nachox> i particularly dislike RMS, i do not even listen ESR and i give a fsck about linus, life is good
[06:04:00] <Tempt> He seems to think Microsoft are going bankrupt any day now because they don't hand out Windows source
[06:04:15] <cmihai> They do
[06:04:36] <cmihai> See Microsoft Shared Source program :-)
[06:04:40] <e^ipi> he wrote a script to download mail like, 15 years ago, and he gets to be an open-source loudmouth forever?
[06:04:44] <Tempt>  scrub: resilver in progress, 11.97% done, 0h12m to go
[06:04:47] <Tempt>  scrub: resilver in progress, 7.60% done, 0h13m to go
[06:04:50] <Tempt> My resilver is going backwards
[06:04:56] <flyingparchment> is fetchmail all esr did?
[06:05:00] <flyingparchment> (other than talk a lot)
[06:05:12] <cmihai> e^ipi, he didn't write it.
[06:05:13] <Tempt> I made a lot of enemies by taking over the 'jargon file'
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[06:05:15] <cmihai> He maintained it.
[06:05:21] <Tempt> and re-writing it to be GNUlitically correct and full of linuxtalk
[06:05:36] <Tempt> while removing traditional VMS jokes etc for being "out of date" and "not open source"
[06:05:43] <nachox> flyingparchment: he wrote a replacement for the menuconfig that was not accepted
[06:05:44] <cmihai> Heh
[06:05:49] <Tempt> Because, of course, all geeks/hackers/whatever are on the open source bandwagon, right?
[06:05:57] <cmihai> And a kernel module for his mail client
[06:06:06] <Tempt> haha
[06:06:07] <Tempt> kernel mail client
[06:06:09] <Tempt> w00000t0
[06:06:19] <Tempt> why not put emacs in the kernel next?
[06:06:24] <Tempt> why not make emacs the kernel
[06:06:31] <cmihai> Why not?
[06:06:45] <nachox> what, there are kernel web servers
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[06:09:08] <boyd> Tempt: I think you've stumbled across the plan
[06:09:51] <nachox> bah, i'm off to sleep, cya all
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[06:11:24] <flyingparchment> okay that's lame, apparently adpu320 scsi cards don't rescan when you run devfsadm
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[06:11:46] <iscool> i need speak witch menber to raza-mexicana
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[06:12:01] <mihaic> Gasp
[06:12:06] <mihaic> That sucked.
[06:14:41] <flyingparchment> what is the consequence of using vxvm with an unsupported array?  just DMP doesn't work?
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[06:42:45] <Tempt> boyd: Heading to Spleen at around 4ish
[06:42:50] <Tempt> boyd: Staying for the duration.
[06:43:09] <Tempt> boyd: Have to celebrate new job. Oh, and I think I'll be on one of your courses pretty soon
[06:49:34] <axisys> whats the diff between sun fire t2k and sun sparc enterprise t2k server? i never knew there are two
[06:51:10] <jbk> ahh the joys of oncall
[06:51:15] <jbk> btw, I hate BCVs :)
[06:51:45] <Tempt> axisys: one is made by fujitsu?
[06:52:21] <axisys> Tempt: what?
[06:54:01] <axisys> tech specs looks same for both, not to mention the look
[06:58:17] <jmcp_> jbk: your fpu operand differences appear to be because you're declaring use of REG_FPD rather than mere REG_PF
[06:58:22] <jmcp_> REG_FP, rather
[06:59:55] <jmcp_> jbk: and based on the publicly available doco (docs.sun.com, # 816-1681), I'm voting for your implementation
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[07:22:53] <gdamore> anyone around willing to review some driver code for dmfe?
[07:25:21] <gdamore> http://cr.opensolaris.org/~gdamore/dmfe-x86/
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[07:36:54] <jbk> any sparc (instrucion) guru's around?
[07:38:06] <Tempt> delewis?
[07:40:29] <Auralis> whats the prob?
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[07:41:14] <Auralis> err miss read
[07:41:19] <Auralis> i should go to bed
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[07:53:17] <WickedWicky> heya party people
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[07:55:05] <Berny> morning wicky
[07:55:16] <WickedWicky> morning :D
[08:00:13] <CIA-24> willard: 6603899 Turgo platform support needs to lose its platform-specific prtdiag overlay
[08:00:35] <Tempt> WickedWicky: Nearly beer o'clock
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[08:06:30] <jbk> heh
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[08:14:04] <Tempt> I'm collecting the best set of panics today
[08:14:08] <Tempt> testing iSCSI/ZFS stuff
[08:14:15] <Tempt> my workstation has panic'd three times already.
[08:15:24] <Tempt> anyway, pubtime
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[08:39:03] <delewis> iSCSI seems to cause panics on most platforms I've worked with it on.
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[09:14:33] <gentry> hey
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[09:34:29] <quasi> morning
[09:36:33] <flyingparchment> i just randomly thought of a linux machine we used to have that would report negative load averages
[09:36:42] <flyingparchment> it's that kind of feature that's preventing mainstream acceptance of solaris
[09:37:11] <gentry> how did it manage that feature?
[09:37:46] <gentry> mabye it counted time that the machine was turned off.
[09:38:22] <quasi> or it was running oracle and counting rollbacks against the load
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[09:40:17] <timsf> hi all
[09:41:40] <gentry> hmm I have to goto the store soonish
[09:43:18] <quasi> gentry: don't forget beers and coffee ;)
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[09:43:41] <gentry> I have caffine...
[09:44:15] <quasi> it would still be a disaster to run out over the weekend
[09:44:27] <gentry> that will never happen here.
[09:45:08] <gentry> well ok if there was a tidal wave I might be forced to roast my own kona beans.
[09:45:37] <quasi> that's probably better anyway
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[09:46:40] <gentry> well sorta, it'd be too much like work.
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[09:47:12] <gentry> there are people who do the roasting & bagging if you want to sub it out.
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[09:51:17] <trochej> Elo
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[10:08:37] <flyingparchment> can veritas volume replicator mount (read-only) the device being replicated at the remote location?
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[10:14:28] <PerterB> I didn't think so, but I honestly don't remember
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[10:47:41] <Giaco> ciao
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[11:00:54] <Giaco> how can make write on /usr/local in a nonwhole root zone ?
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[11:04:37] <Gekkko> vmware does not suck
[11:04:38] <Gekkko> >_>!
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[11:05:29] <trochej> http://www.flickr.com/photos/skelastic/1352974594/
[11:05:50] <trochej> Gekkko: eh?
[11:06:27] <Gekkko> oh just Linux nubs telling me VMware sucks and I should use VirtualBox
[11:06:35] <Gekkko> even though it's unstable and doesnt do what I want it to do
[11:06:44] <Gekkko> because that makes sense o_O
[11:07:54] <trochej> Gekkko: VMware does suck at some uses
[11:08:10] <Gekkko> running 4 OS's at one time that can be accessed from anywhere?
[11:09:22] <trochej> Playing games. :)
[11:09:52] <trochej> And it *gasp* costs monnies.
[11:10:07] * trochej talks about workstation
[11:10:46] <Cyrille> the nerve of some people, daring to try and sell software...
[11:10:47] <Cyrille> ;-)
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[11:11:23] <trochej> Cyrille: Yah, and not giving away their sources
[11:11:26] <trochej> How can they
[11:11:38] <trochej> Take away from us our natural right!
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[11:12:46] <trochej> If God intended us to give away sources and not sell software, he would give us wings!
[11:12:55] <trochej> s/he/He/
[11:14:34] <trochej> Hm
[11:14:49] <trochej> Maybe it's time I make wine and play me nwn ?
[11:15:31] <dosiu> Giaco: http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/howtoguides/containersLowRes.jsp , section "Creating the First Web Server Container".
[11:15:52] <trochej> dosiu: My God, you are being helpful!
[11:15:56] <trochej> What happened?
[11:15:57] <trochej> :)
[11:16:07] <dosiu> ;P
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[11:16:38] <dosiu> trochej: I'm sick. :)
[11:20:39] <quasi> Giaco: either find something you can mount in as rw or the really ugly bit would be making /usr/local a symlink to /local in the global zone - then any sparse zone having a /local will get the same and essentially a writable /usr/local
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[11:21:34] <Giaco> quasi, I would like to make zfs snapshots
[11:21:54] <Giaco> when I create the zone the system tells me that cannot create zfs dataset
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[11:27:26] <mac-> hi there
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[11:35:50] <mac-> anybody here ?
[11:36:20] <ofu> no
[11:36:31] <mac-> so pity ;p
[11:36:33] <quasi> nobody at all
[11:36:41] <mac-> so so :P
[11:36:49] <WickedWicky> blame my lack on hardware knowledge but.. how come ZFS (or any filesystem for that matter) is so much faster when I use the entire disk, without creating partitions?
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[11:37:50] <flyingparchment> WickedWicky: because ZFS knows to disable the write cache when you give it the whole disk
[11:38:05] <flyingparchment> WickedWicky: it can't safely do that if the disk is being used by other filesystems like UFS which are not write-cache-aware
[11:38:12] <flyingparchment> sorry, i mean _enable_ the write cache
[11:39:06] <WickedWicky> I thought the write cache would be used no matter what..., what's the use of a 16MB write cache for non-zfs file systems, for example?
[11:39:23] <flyingparchment> caching reads.  other than that, not much, if you value your data at all.
[11:39:33] <flyingparchment> (unless your cache has a battery)
[11:39:59] <WickedWicky> ahhh, okay.. so in normal situation the cache would be read cache, not write cache
[11:40:24] <WickedWicky> thanks for explaining :)
[11:40:43] <ofu> oh, can you turn off read- and write cache? for example if this memory seems to behave strange?
[11:40:51] <ofu> format -e ?
[11:41:04] <mac-> opensolaris is good choice for desktop system ?
[11:41:07] <flyingparchment> format can do it for normal disks, for arrays it's usually an option in the controller configuration
[11:41:17] <ofu> has anybody ever experienced memory errors on disk cache memory?
[11:42:32] <ofu> mac-: except for my power management, yes
[11:42:32] <quasi> ofu: I wouldn't be surprised if it could happen
[11:42:53] <trochej> mac-: I use it solely since February
[11:42:54] <WickedWicky> ofu: no, and the SE3510s we have disable write-back when the battery's FRU expired, is empty or any other inconcistency is found
[11:42:55] <ofu> it isnt even ecc-protected
[11:43:07] <ofu> se3510?
[11:43:12] <WickedWicky> StoreDGE
[11:43:16] <WickedWicky> StorEdge
[11:43:19] <ofu> i still use A3500
[11:43:22] <ofu> sometimes
[11:44:24] <mac-> what about support for SCSI scanners simply, there is SANE ?
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[11:46:31] <mac-> or ther is a CUPS support for pronting systems ?
[11:46:45] <Gekkko> trochej: doesn't NWN run in Solaris?
[11:47:08] <ofu> but in the end.... even 48 disks with 16mbyte memory each are much less cache than 16gb main memory
[11:48:57] <trochej> Gekkko: I only know of Linux client
[11:49:06] <Gekkko> it might run in Solaris with that Linux emulator
[11:49:08] <trochej> Gekkko: You know of Solaris binary?
[11:49:17] <trochej> Gekkko: Which Linux emulator?
[11:49:23] <Gekkko> Tempt: ^
[11:49:27] <Gekkko> I can't remember what it's called.
[11:49:59] <Tempt> hmmm
[11:50:04] <Tempt> someone mentions my name?
[11:50:23] <Cyrille> brandz?
[11:50:28] <Gekkko> that's it.
[11:50:43] <trochej> Hmmm
[11:50:47] <trochej> Brandz?
[11:51:03] <Cyrille> running a linux zone in S10.
[11:51:15] <Tempt> ag man, why?
[11:52:23] <trochej> I'm not sure brandz can do, but I might try
[11:52:28] <flyingparchment> here's today's awesome mysql bug: http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=31001 (ORDER BY ... DESC doesn't work)
[11:52:43] <Gekkko> lolol
[11:52:49] <Tempt> heh
[11:52:52] <Tempt> JUST USE ORACLE
[11:52:54] <Tempt> mm'kay?
[11:53:03] <Gekkko> ORACLE ISN'T FREE?
[11:53:05] <Gekkko> mkay?
[11:53:10] <flyingparchment> yes it is!
[11:53:13] <flyingparchment> but not on solaris :(
[11:53:13] <Tempt> ORACLE IS FREE FOR DEVELOPMENT USE
[11:53:15] <Tempt> mmmmm'kay?
[11:53:18] <Gekkko> lies.
[11:53:19] <flyingparchment> well except for that
[11:53:32] <Tempt> Oracle is free for dev on every platform
[11:53:39] <Tempt> and Oracle costs money for prod on every platform
[11:53:40] <flyingparchment> yes, but only for production on linux and windows
[11:53:40] <Gekkko> and what does that mean exactly.
[11:53:44] <flyingparchment> (Oracle XE)
[11:53:49] <Tempt> and the only platform worth caring about is Solaris
[11:53:52] <Tempt> So enjoy the win.
[11:54:15] <Tempt> (OH NOES, THE VMS CREW WILL BE ON TO ME SOON)
[11:54:51] <Tempt> To be honest, if you're making money with your database driven app you can afford Oracle.
[11:59:44] * JoergB is back (gone 17:53:22)
[12:00:21] <flyingparchment> i wonder why vxfs doesn't support directio(3c)
[12:02:37] <PerterB> because they have their quick IO thing?
[12:07:46] <Tempt> Because VXFS with directio would be slower than UFS
[12:08:02] <Tempt> hence no willingness to appear crap
[12:08:27] <flyingparchment> what is convosync=direct for then?
[12:14:09] <Gekkko> Tempt is an op?
[12:20:01] <trygvis> woot?
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[12:36:30] <WickedWicky> Tempt pwns us
[12:38:43] <WickedWicky> I ate too much :s
[12:38:46] * WickedWicky is stuffed
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[12:47:13] <Berny> hmm where does dhcpagent store the last ip address it had?
[12:49:56] <Doc> is this channel about Windows yet?
[12:50:22] <trochej> Nope, but close
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[12:55:38] <Doc> ok. i'll come back tomorrow
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[12:57:24] <quasi> WickedWicky: overdosed on hageslag again? ;)
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[13:05:54] <WickedWicky> quasi: no, chicken tandouri
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[13:09:01] <quasi> sounds nice
[13:09:22] <Gekkko> Where's the damn Asus Eee
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[13:09:42] <Gekkko> they announced the second-gen version when they havent even released the specs for the first-gen.,
[13:09:43] <Gekkko> wtf.
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[13:29:55] <Vanuatoo> Does anyone know if SXDE 9/07 will be released until mondey?
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[13:33:54] <trochej> I don't know
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[13:59:31] <ofu> can i put /var into a zpool without problems?
[14:00:20] <asyd> that probably will break updates I guess
[14:04:23] <richlowe> huh, darren ain't around.
[14:12:30] <coffman> ofu: i would not put /var under it, but you can surely do /var/$something
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[14:15:31] <Berny> avoid /var/lib/pgsql though... gives my box coughs after every upgrade... installer just puts the new stuff in there und next reboot zfs mount -a fails :-\
[14:17:23] <ofu> so i have to put rootfs and /var onto a usb stick... 1gb is surely not sufficient, sigh
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[14:27:43] <coffman> ofu: well, cost like nothing anyways (2gb)
[14:29:41] <tomww> any chances to ever get a acrobat reader on solaris x86 ?
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[14:34:49] <Gekkko> xpdf?
[14:34:50] <Gekkko> kpdf?
[14:34:58] <kaiwai> evince
[14:35:04] <tomww> gpdf
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[14:35:14] <kaiwai> adobe acrobat under wine
[14:35:28] <asyd> brandz!
[14:35:48] <tomww> asyd: yes, this is the first idea i "could" consider...
[14:36:10] <tomww> native acrobat reader... there is a brandnew version, but, only for Sparc!!
[14:37:49] <kaiwai> tomww: why am I not surprised
[14:38:01] <kaiwai> need a SPARC -> x86 morphing software
[14:39:44] <kaiwai> oh well, hopefully my ata woes will be fixed soon
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[15:00:14] <CIA-25> pf199842: 6588415 automountd stack overflow in xdr_action_list()
[15:03:44] <trochej> Khehehe
[15:03:54] <trochej> I read automated stack oveflow :)
[15:11:02] <kaiwai> hmm, automount is evil
[15:12:50] <kaiwai> that along with the changes to the ata driver
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[15:20:22] <Tempt> this shit is gold:
[15:20:25] <Tempt> Sep 14 16:37:32 taquito scsi: [ID 107833 kern.warning] WARNING: /scsi_vhci/ssd@g0100005004b9a3b200002a0046ea0540 (ssd26):
[15:20:28] <Tempt> Sep 14 16:37:32 taquito         offline or reservation conflict
[15:20:29] <Tempt> heh.
[15:20:38] <Tempt> (that's an iSCSI LUN)
[15:20:55] <WickedWicky> things you dont wanna see on a friday evenig
[15:21:11] <Tempt> oh man
[15:21:18] <Tempt> things you definately don't want to see at any time
[15:21:33] <Tempt> I ignored it then and it's still there at 11:21
[15:21:42] <Tempt> just killing time before heating out for more beer at midnight
[15:23:05] <Tempt> WickedWicky: What's happening out your way?
[15:24:15] <kaiwai> hmm, interesting, what sorts of things :)
[15:24:51] <WickedWicky> Tempt: nothing much, politics
[15:25:00] <kaiwai> oh
[15:25:03] <Tempt> Awful. Drink beer and avoid the politics.
[15:25:08] <kaiwai> the bottomless pit of despair
[15:25:32] <WickedWicky> but hey
[15:25:33] <WickedWicky> good side is
[15:25:34] <Tempt> kaiwai: You can take my place and say hello to my friends at witness protection while I meet other friends for a quiet beer so not to appear rude.
[15:25:39] * WickedWicky scored a Donna Karan bag
[15:25:59] <kaiwai> ok :)
[15:26:08] * kaiwai squeals
[15:26:09] <WickedWicky> I'll go out tonight for a few vodkas
[15:26:12] <kaiwai> ooh, give me a go :)
[15:26:40] <kaiwai> Vodka or the twink-drinks that are 'cruisers' and other vile crap
[15:26:41] <Tempt> Ha. You might have a Donna Karan bag, but I've got a Craig Morrison backpack!
[15:26:51] * dlg yawn
[15:26:54] <WickedWicky> lol
[15:27:41] <Tempt> kaiwai: wppsc.com; get aquainted with that and then fly out, they're expecting me around midnight.
[15:27:53] <Tempt> kaiwai: I'm sure you'd have an excellent night out.
[15:28:12] <Tempt> Sadly, for me, it's gone from a diverse crowd of people to an "only straight in the village" situation.
[15:28:29] <WickedWicky> you're SO gonna score tonight
[15:28:37] <Tempt> haha
[15:28:38] <kaiwai> ah, poor guy; maybe you'll get lucky and see some leso action occur
[15:28:42] <Tempt> I'm not going to witness protection
[15:28:59] <Tempt> kaiwai: Naaah, the lesos stopped going, I went to the last one and there was two women in the *entire* place.
[15:28:59] <kaiwai> remember, look, don't touch :P
[15:29:06] <Tempt> kaiwai: and I knew both of them.
[15:29:09] <kaiwai> lol
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[15:30:00] <Tempt> WickedWicky: Craig Morisson backpack - http://www.cmd.co.uk/classic.html
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[15:30:35] <WickedWicky> that one kicks ass
[15:30:52] <WickedWicky> and my laptop would fit in it
[15:30:54] <Tempt> yep
[15:30:58] <kaiwai> hmm, wish I found find my manbag
[15:31:09] <Tempt> They'll actually fit a 15" powerbook if you try
[15:31:18] <Tempt> but you don't want to overload them and stress the rubber too much.
[15:33:53] <kaiwai> then again, I prefer the old iBook candy laptops
[15:33:58] <Tempt> urgh
[15:34:02] <Tempt> ugly, man, ugly.
[15:34:15] <kaiwai> I had one of those a while ago, quite cute - a pinkish one at uni for IT classes :)
[15:34:26] <Tempt> too ugly for words.
[15:34:58] <timsf> My rucksack of choice - http://www.lowepro.com/Products/Backpacks/notebook_camera/CompuRover_AW.aspx
[15:35:09] <Tempt> the URL is bad enough
[15:35:19] <Tempt> I'm not even going to look at a product called "compurover"
[15:35:38] <Cyrille> especially the way it was split on my screen, I saw it as CompuRove
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[15:36:23] <kaiwai> eww, everytime I see that I get this haunting experience of european backpackers, mangled english and people walking around with a 1lt bottle of water as if they're in the desert
[15:37:38] <timsf> Nice bag - waterproof zip for the laptop compartment, lots of room for camera gear, and a decent sized <everything else> area..
[15:38:33] <Tempt> Man, if you're carrying that much stuff around there is a problem
[15:38:36] <Tempt> a) it's a lot of crap
[15:38:43] <Tempt> b) you're not doing your spine any favours
[15:39:15] <timsf> It's actually okay, and there's a belt to help take the load off your back
[15:39:24] <timsf> Wouldn't want to be carrying it all the time,
[15:39:36] <timsf> but when you need to carry stuff, that does the job!
[15:39:46] <kaiwai> reminds me of the two people I hate the most, the 'laptop in starbucks guy' and 'person who walks around topless guy'
[15:41:17] <kaiwai> oh, and forgot the most annoying
[15:41:25] <kaiwai> the dick with the bluetooth thing stuck in the ear
[15:41:47] <kaiwai> mr "I think I'm high tech like a robot and so important I need to be in constant contact all the time' guy
[15:42:25] <timsf> I'm none of those!
[15:43:01] <kaiwai> oh and in terms of IT, "I wear a suite to make up for my enept IT knowledge"
[15:43:06] <Cyrille> you mean you don't walk around topless with your bluetooth thing behind the ear and your laptop under the arm in a starbucks?
[15:43:20] <WickedWicky> who doesnt do that these days?
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[15:43:26] <kaiwai> Cyrille: if I did, alot of people who lose sight in both eyes
[15:43:45] <kaiwai> some would die of shock/horror or just committ suicide at the sight
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[15:44:10] <WickedWicky> fishing for compliments?
[15:44:22] <kaiwai> who is fishing for compliments?
[15:44:26] <WickedWicky> ti
[15:44:37] <WickedWicky> "aw, it's not that bad"
[15:44:40] <kaiwai> no
[15:44:52] <kaiwai> mate, when I got the shower, I dive under the mirror to avoid the reflection!
[15:44:59] <WickedWicky> you're not alone then
[15:45:00] <kaiwai> thats no joke
[15:45:11] <Tempt> kaiwai: Perhaps you could get an inflatable friend and hide in the dark together
[15:45:35] <kaiwai> Tempt: being bitter and emo like is alot easier
[15:46:45] <dclarke> gotta go make a living .. away I go
[15:47:02] <kaiwai> dclarke: keep safe
[15:47:12] <dclarke> /leave #opensolaris
[15:47:20] <dclarke> that didn't work
[15:47:22] * WickedWicky takes your space
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[15:48:16] <WickedWicky> ahh, the memories
[15:48:19] <WickedWicky> 2 unlimited - no limit
[15:48:30] <kaiwai> I remember that
[15:48:35] <kaiwai> got that on a minidisc somewhere
[15:48:38] <razrX> WTF !! :)
[15:48:53] <kaiwai> I'm listening to 'no pussy blues'
[15:49:17] <kaiwai> by Grinderman
[15:49:20] <WickedWicky> Netherlands' pride :~
[15:49:25] <logic_> LOL
[15:49:27] * razrX is playing cradle of filth
[15:49:32] <WickedWicky> \m/
[15:49:36] <PerterB> WickedWicky: we still hold the Netherlands responsible for that criminal record
[15:50:03] <kaiwai> cradle of filth; is that the song for Microsoft's home turf?
[15:50:04] <kaiwai> :P
[15:50:09] <WickedWicky> My hear was a wardrum, beat by jugular, cults in eerie jungle vaults.. when number 13 fell in my lap, lips and skin, like sin, a venus mantrap
[15:50:21] <WickedWicky> hear = heart
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[15:50:28] <kaiwai> hmm, venus man trap :)
[15:50:29] <razrX> lol @ kaiwai
[15:50:33] <kaiwai> I wish I had one of those
[15:50:34] <Tempt> kaiwai: emo.slapday.com
[15:50:55] <WickedWicky> now: E-Rotic - Gotta get it grooving
[15:51:23] <kaiwai> lol
[15:51:53] <kaiwai> WickedWicky: if you dear listen to La Bouche, Aqua or Real McCoy, you man and heterosexual licence will be revoked
[15:51:58] * Tempt is listening to Nasenbluten - Rotterdam Takes it Up the Arse
[15:52:07] <WickedWicky> Be my lover is queued next
[15:52:10] <WickedWicky> sue me
[15:52:15] <WickedWicky> Rotterdam
[15:52:16] <WickedWicky> ugh
[15:52:35] <Tempt> kaiwai: What about listening to Barbie Girl in an anti-corporate humour way? Still gay?
[15:52:36] <WickedWicky> you should know... there is a healthy competition between Amsterdam and Rotterdam
[15:52:43] * kaiwai is listening to Electric Alice - Grinderman
[15:53:06] <Tempt> la bouche
[15:53:07] <Tempt> man
[15:53:08] <WickedWicky> What about Matthias Reim, verdammt ich liebe dich
[15:53:14] <Tempt> When I was a teenager I did a network deployment in a car audio shop
[15:53:17] <kaiwai> Tempt: hmm, that done to techno/metal with gritty guitar rifts would rescuse it - just
[15:53:32] <Tempt> I can't hear those sounds without smelling burning electronics and wood
[15:53:41] <kaiwai> lol
[15:53:48] <Tempt> the subwoofer demo track
[15:53:51] <WickedWicky> alright, not La Bouche then...
[15:53:52] <Tempt> argh
[15:53:57] <WickedWicky> Paul Johnson - Get get down
[15:53:59] <kaiwai> atleast it isn't the ministry of sound - aka 'official cd of the gay night club scene'
[15:54:02] <WickedWicky> ...
[15:54:04] <WickedWicky> dude
[15:54:09] <WickedWicky> shut the ef up
[15:54:13] <WickedWicky> I love Ministry of Sound
[15:54:18] <WickedWicky> I'm going to Ibiza every year
[15:54:31] <kaiwai> and I'm that pre-op you get with each year :)
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[15:55:07] <WickedWicky> Clubbing == sexy girls
[15:55:21] <WickedWicky> most are on E so they wont know the next who the hell you are or what you did together anyway
[15:55:24] <kaiwai> depends on which club :)
[15:56:11] <kaiwai> ok, got Jimi Hendrix going, all I need is a hubbly-bubbly
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[15:57:48] <kaiwai> well, thats good, the latest-greatest build now supports my CPU/frequency scaling
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[15:58:42] <WickedWicky> I'm in a state where I consider Paris Hilton doable :s
[15:58:59] <kaiwai> lol, that bad :P
[16:00:20] <Tempt> alright
[16:00:21] <quasi> WickedWicky: you must have gotten into the wrong coffee shop today
[16:00:22] <Tempt> nearly midnight
[16:00:27] <Tempt> I am going ... to the pub
[16:00:31] <WickedWicky> have fun eh
[16:00:48] <Tempt> no doubt I'll be back here in five hours
[16:00:53] <Tempt> spouting drunken nonsense ;)
[16:01:05] <WickedWicky> HAHA
[16:01:09] <kaiwai> "Windows is great!" "Linus is right" "Theo is articulate"
[16:01:12] <WickedWicky> it's not a good sign when you can give an ETA
[16:02:23] <PerterB> shows a lack of commitment to a serious drinking session if you ask me
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[16:02:57] <kaiwai> PeterB: I'd love to meet a person who can get drunk on beer
[16:03:10] <kaiwai> maybe its the irish gene but I find I get bloated befor drunk
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[16:03:56] <kaiwai> hmm, nacho's
[16:04:09] <kaiwai> *drisles cheese over narchox*
[16:04:17] <PerterB> that's because you all drink that fizzy nonsense in the antipodes... I'm thoroughly irish and get drunk just fine on beer thanks
[16:04:41] * razrX does his Beavis & ButtHead impersonation "Naaaachhooooooo'sssss ... good one Beavis "
[16:05:07] <kaiwai> PerterB: bah, give me good red wine; down a few bottles in a night :)
[16:05:53] <kaiwai> thank goodness I'm the friendly drunk or otherwise I would have made an ass of myself at my sisters wedding - and the family was worried about the regular uncle who always gets drunk
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[16:09:37] <Cyrille> so being the friendly drunk you only started kissing the groom instead of punching him?
[16:10:16] <kaiwai> sssh lets keep it out little secret :)
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[16:10:33] <kaiwai> if he were that way inclined, I would have been in his pants long ago
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[16:13:16] <Vanuatoo>  Does anyone know if SXDE 9/07 will be released until mondey?
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[16:13:44] <kaiwai> most likely a few more weeks
[16:14:46] <Vanuatoo> kaiwai, thank you
[16:15:14] <kaiwai> its only a guess though
[16:15:59] <kaiwai> I'd say there be a delay given the stress their servers are under with the latest update for Solaris 10 having been just released in the last week or so
[16:16:18] <kaiwai> so I assume they want atleast a gap between that and getting 09/07 out the door
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[16:23:32] <kaiwai> is sun still continuing to develop realplayer?
[16:24:20] <Doc> nah.. no need - you can just use the windows version now that all of their systems are shipping with windows
[16:24:29] <kaiwai> lol
[16:25:39] <Doc> personally i think it's great to see that sun is finally doing something to seriously increase the stock price
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[16:26:40] <kaiwai> well, if people want a machine loaded with Windows, isn't it better to be sold by Sun them losing a customer to HP or IBM?
[16:27:07] <kaiwai> someones been listening to what I said 6 years ago
[16:27:31] <paul> I think Sun has long recognised networks are homogenous..
[16:27:46] <kaiwai> you mean heterogeneous
[16:27:47] <Doc> kaiwai: nothing new - the windows thing started a few years ago
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[16:27:52] <paul> kaiwai: yes :)
[16:27:53] <paul> gr
[16:28:04] <Doc> they actually trained a few of us up on windows because so many ppl were going to be running windows on them
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[16:28:10] <carbon60> Good morning.
[16:28:18] <kaiwai> Doc: hopefully it'll put a rocket under the ass of Solaris to push forward development at a faster pace
[16:28:24] <carbon60> Is there a simple way to find what process is listening on a port?
[16:28:40] <Doc> (personally i didnt actually bother doing the training, which was good because i never actually had a need for it)
[16:28:57] <Doc> carbon: google, lsof
[16:29:17] <carbon60> Doc: I didn't qualify lsof as "simple". :-)
[16:29:23] <Doc> carbon: cd /proc; pfiles *  can also help
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[16:36:48] <kaiwai> hmm, apparently NZ is being 'cyber attacked' by china
[16:37:02] <kaiwai> are they trying to find out our formula for the ultimate mint sauce for lamb?
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[16:37:33] <Doc> yah.. i was over in NZ a few days ago and that was all over the news
[16:38:47] <kaiwai> hmm, the good side, Telecom has finally upgraded the exchange in my area to ADSL2+
[16:39:37] <Cyrille> apparently China isn't very picky, lots of coutries claim to have been targets.
[16:40:54] <kaiwai> true; then again, it'll be interesting to see how things go; whether we take the US approach of 'megaphone diplomacy' or the more subtle route
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[16:42:54] * elektronkind was watching old farscape episodes last night. We need Scorpius to be pres
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[16:43:26] <kaiwai> elektronkind: meh, more like stalin; start with the evangelicals and work back from there
[16:43:50] <elektronkind> stalin was a bipolar drunkard
[16:44:22] <kaiwai> true, but gulags are good tools for convincing people they're wrong
[16:45:08] * elektronkind sorta makes that same connection whenever he begins a day at work and looks at his inbox
[16:45:48] <kaiwai> reminds me when working at an ISP; an aussie company was spamming our servers
[16:45:59] <Doc> nah.. aussies dont send spam
[16:46:19] <kaiwai> true, they just send their poor quality products down peoples throats
[16:46:33] <kaiwai> like $14 per kilo banana's that taste like shit
[16:46:46] <Doc> elektron: sounds like you need a better anti-spam produect - can I sell you one? :)
[16:47:20] <elektronkind>  Doc: I'm just referring to the user tickets I have to take care of ;)
[16:47:33] <elektronkind> our spam gauntlet is pretty mighty anyway
[16:47:46] <kaiwai> hmm, I assume its non-sun
[16:48:11] <elektronkind> nope, all on sun. Our MX and milter servers are solaris 10 on v20zs
[16:48:26] <kaiwai> sorry, should have rephrased that, you don't work for sun
[16:48:35] <Doc> kaiwai: me? no
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[16:48:45] <quasi> v20z is pretty nice, but eol'ed
[16:48:53] <elektronkind> greylisting+connect timeout+spamassin+clamav
[16:49:02] <Doc> heh..  toys
[16:49:50] <elektronkind> I enjoy the SP CLI on the v20/40z more than I do on the galaxies... but I love the galaxy (x4100) hardware more.
[16:49:57] <asyd> http://bp3.blogger.com/_pNJFZtinpKY/RunVvrOGofI/AAAAAAAAB1o/r5TW3cXQXgA/s1600-h/sunstrategy2.gif
[16:50:01] <Doc> hmm.. v40z is going away
[16:50:31] <elektronkind> it pretty much has to since newisys is, well, EOL'd
[16:50:43] <Doc> the galaxy shit all over the v{24}0z, but the ILOM is just sooo windows-ized it's silly
[16:50:54] <kaiwai> asyd: the scary part, it is kind of accurate
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[16:51:18] <Doc> sun are going to piss ppl off with the v40z EOL
[16:51:27] <asyd> kaiwai: so true :)
[16:51:52] <sommerfeld> Doc: v40z is a 3U, 4-socket system, and there are 4-socket 2U systems in the pipeline
[16:52:11] <kaiwai> asyd: but hey, I don't have a university business degree so I guess I know nothing about the 'wonderful decisions' being made
[16:52:12] <kaiwai> :P
[16:52:13] <elektronkind> a v40z can be replaced, core for core, with a 2x quad core X4200
[16:52:23] <Doc> that's not the point
[16:52:26] <asyd> kaiwai: :))
[16:52:33] <Doc> the point is that at the moment it's a currnet shipping system
[16:52:33] <elektronkind> makes sense to can the v40z, especially since newisys is out of bidness
[16:52:39] <Doc> and within a few weeks it's going to be EOL
[16:53:22] <Doc> from what i've heard the window between those two dates is going to be shorter than basically any other sun product other than the B100S
[16:53:29] <kaiwai> asyd: has anyone at sun ever sat down and asked 'how the fuck does this all glue together into a coherient package for the customer'?
[16:53:54] <Doc> kaiwai: since when does sun care about what the customer actually thinks?
[16:54:07] <kaiwai> Doc: good point :)
[16:54:30] <sommerfeld> Doc: are you talking about the last-order-date to last-ship-date delta?
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[16:54:49] <Doc> sommerfeld: from what i've heard they will differ by a few days...
[16:55:10] <Doc> bit like they did with the B1600
[16:55:23] <elektronkind> the thing about the v20z/v40z is that was Sun's first big push into x86, and they OEM'd those systems from Newisys. Newisys went under this past summer, so I guess Sun's forced into a tight spot.
[16:56:00] <kaiwai> did they?
[16:56:04] <Doc> sun should have EOLed the V40z months ago, but they didnt mainly due to vmware certification on the Xxx00 systems
[16:56:05] <kaiwai> hmm, thats news to me
[16:56:12] <asyd> well, sometimes I'm wondering if Sun really cares about customers. In france, it's sometimes very very difficult to talk to a salesman, we need to call 3 times per day for two weeks!
[16:56:27] <Doc> not to mention the crap they pulled with the M2 systems
[16:56:38] <kaiwai> aye? newisys is still alive and selling
[16:57:00] <Doc> asyd: in general sun hasnt cared about customers for about 3 years
[16:57:05] <kaiwai> asyd: true; try ordering off them :(
[16:57:49] * Berny orders
[16:57:59] * Berny even get deliveries...
[16:58:31] <asyd> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VczbbiRmDik&mode=related&search look how french people study :)
[16:58:46] <kaiwai> I wish that were the case; ring up sun and get given the run around
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[17:00:00] <kaiwai> asyd: when you only have a 35 hour work week, it leaves alot of time to fill
[17:00:32] <Doc> welcome to the very reason i quit sun - it's amazing how a company that does such brilliant stuff on the development side (hardware + software) can do such a shocking job on the rest of the process
[17:00:45] <asyd> kaiwai: ahah
[17:01:08] <kaiwai> Doc: yeap, a whole suite of products that are poor integrated and marketed
[17:01:21] <kaiwai> talk to Microsoft and they'll tell you how everything fits together
[17:01:26] <Doc> and sold, and supported, and implemented
[17:01:27] <kaiwai> talk to sun, and you get a blank look
[17:03:03] <kaiwai> reminds me what I said 5 years ago about java in australia
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[17:03:11] <Doc> it's ok.. as long as you put "Java" somewhere in the name it's all OK
[17:03:18] <Doc> even works for the company itself
[17:03:33] <kaiwai> too bad no bastard outside geekdome knows about it
[17:04:04] <richlowe> users shouldn't have to care how what they are using is implemented.
[17:04:30] <richlowe> if you think about the technology most end users *do* reference by name, it tends to be of the "Fucking $FOO" variety.
[17:04:41] <richlowe> which I guess is still, in theory, brand recognition.
[17:04:49] <kaiwai> richlowe: but consumers drive demand; if consumers demand java, they don't know what it is, but they demand it; if they, the carrier don't proivide it, they won't go with the carrier
[17:05:02] <Doc> i seriously hope that at some stage i will _want_ to go back and work at sun again
[17:05:24] <Doc> but at the moment that certainly isnt the case
[17:06:16] <kaiwai> richlowe: call it bullshit marketing; its like when people ask for a feature in a car, they don't know what it is, but they assume that they should ask for it or otherwirse they're missing out on something
[17:07:46] <richlowe> why in the world would anyone demand java?
[17:07:51] <richlowe> it's not a service, it's not something they use.
[17:07:58] <richlowe> people use google, or youtube, or what the hell ever.
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[17:08:01] <kaiwai> richlowe: I assume you're an engineer
[17:08:02] <Doc> yah, but if sun at the moment were a car they would have built a brilliant interiour, but without actually bothering to put on wheels...
[17:08:10] <richlowe> they're not conciously consuming flash.
[17:08:15] <richlowe> or GFS, BigTable, and whatever the else.
[17:08:26] <Doc> rich: but the W in the SUNW is soooo outdated!
[17:08:37] <richlowe> some 3 toothed woman in alabama is never going to stand up and demand her tv guide is java based.
[17:08:40] <kaiwai> W = Wanker? I'd say its up to date
[17:09:13] <kaiwai> richlowe: no, you link java with what can be done and claim that without java you can't do there, ergo you need a handset that has java on it
[17:09:27] <kaiwai> jesus christ, is this what happens when you leave engineers to run marketing? *cries*
[17:09:44] <Doc> i have 3 words for you..
[17:09:47] <Doc> Java Desktop System
[17:09:49] <richlowe> in Sun's case, this is what happens when you let marketing run marketing.
[17:09:56] <kaiwai> bend the truth, and bullshit you way to the bank
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[17:10:25] <kaiwai> Doc: too bad Java is painful experience for the desktop
[17:10:29] <richlowe> which is why pretty much every product they have has the sesame street bit in the name and materials.
[17:10:34] <Doc> blah.. sun marketing are still claiming Solaris 10 is Open Source
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[17:10:38] <richlowe> "This product brought to you by the letters Z and J, the number 12, and Java!"
[17:10:39] <kaiwai> Doc: and now they're goign to punish the world again with panels
[17:10:43] <Doc> with as far as I'm converned is an outright lie
[17:10:52] <richlowe> "Java is a production of the Childrens Televesion^W^WSun Microsystems, Inc."
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[17:11:23] <richlowe> Doc: I had that argument with sara and simon.
[17:11:27] <richlowe> Doc: I gave up 2 messages in.
[17:11:28] <Doc> Solaris 10 has _never_ been Open Sources, and _never_ will be, no matter what Jonathan or anyoe else claim
[17:11:46] <richlowe> Doc: I figure if they're willing to twist the through when talking to someone *entirely* aware that they're doing it, there's no fucking hope.
[17:11:49] <quasi> Doc: I think you're expecting too much of marketing if you think they can tell the difference between S10 and nevada
[17:11:56] <richlowe> 'truth' not 'through', sorry.
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[17:12:27] <Doc> Solaris 11 (or do i need to call that "Solaris Next" or "the next version of solaris"?) may well have parts of it being open sourced, but solaris 10 isnt even close to open sourced
[17:14:03] <kaiwai> dear god, looked at the 'entry requirements' - great, pre-req, educated drips
[17:14:18] <kaiwai> no one they scrap the cream of the moronic crop
[17:14:20] <kaiwai> *wonder
[17:14:27] <kaiwai> *scrape
[17:14:34] * kaiwai fixes beside light
[17:16:12] <Doc> it worries me that i can say that I can say that I have no regrets quit my job at sun... a few year ago i could never have seen myself saying that...
[17:16:26] <Doc> s/quit/that i quit/
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[17:18:20] <richlowe> mornin' alanc.
[17:18:29] <kaiwai> Doc: was that before the 'big downsizing'?
[17:18:40] <alanc> Doc: if you're going to break it down in parts, I'd say at least 20% of Solaris 10 is open source, but that's the same bits you can get in most Linux distros (GNOME, Xorg, sendmail, bind, perl, all the assorted SFW bits), so not really interesting to talk about unless you're marketing
[17:18:55] <richlowe> alanc: that's not the reason marketing said it.
[17:18:57] <Doc> which of the downsizings was that?
[17:19:02] <alanc> true
[17:19:07] <richlowe> alanc: they make claims that it's "similar enough" to Nevada that they could claim it.
[17:19:10] <timsf> (or your audience doesn't care about the answer, so long as it's "yes")
[17:19:15] <richlowe> alanc: they've now changed that to only implying it I'm told.
[17:19:20] <Doc> alanc: that's not the point...  marketing confuse "Solaris 10" with "solaris Nevada"
[17:19:50] <richlowe> alanc: feel free to try out logic on simon and sarad.
[17:19:52] <kaiwai> Doc: or bending the truth; sometimes BS is required at times
[17:19:57] <Doc> "Solaris 10" is no more open source than "Solaris 9" was - yet markeitng claim it's fylly open source
[17:20:06] <richlowe> and kaiwai's statement is the reason nobody sane likes marketing.
[17:20:17] <richlowe> Doc: claimed.
[17:20:29] <richlowe> though I'm yet to verify what they said they were doing now is what they're actually doing.
[17:20:32] <richlowe> I gave up caring.
[17:20:33] <kaiwai> richlowe: depends, I like marketing, then again, I have loose/flexible morals
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[17:20:34] <Doc> rich: whatever.. i stop looking months ago
[17:20:55] <richlowe> I figure if they keep it up it'll hit /. or whatever eventually.
[17:21:01] <richlowe> and I'm more interested in watching that than getting them to stop.
[17:21:02] <alanc> doubt I'll get far - I could never convince them to stop saying "We've released the majority of the Solaris source code to OpenSolaris" when it was only the ~20% of Solaris that is ON
[17:21:31] <alanc> but that 20% is the majority of what marketing cares about...
[17:21:54] <kaiwai> alanc: then again, what is missing - anything partciularly exciting? the crumbly Xsun, the font server, and a few other bits 'n pieces
[17:22:07] <Doc> kaiwai: that's not the point...
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[17:22:29] <kaiwai> Doc: then what is the point?
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[17:22:47] <asyd> that's marketting guys always lies ? even Sun ones ? :)
[17:22:52] <richlowe> kaiwai: Not lying.
[17:23:07] <alanc> kaiwai: we've released a lot more since the original ON code dump too, but even today, there's large bits like CDE left closed
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[17:23:21] <Doc> kaiwai: sun.com/solaris
[17:23:30] <Doc> "Free. Open. Everywhere."
[17:23:37] <Doc> Solaris 10 is none of those
[17:23:53] <kaiwai> richlowe: lying it such a harsh word, just call it being liberal with the truth :)
[17:24:05] <alanc> and the Solaris font server is pretty much just the X11R6 font server with various files updated to later open source versions - nothing much Sun added there
[17:24:07] <kaiwai> alanc: but will anyone actually care about CDE?
[17:24:08] <Doc> (well, maybe it's free...  unless they have changed the rules again)
[17:24:08] <Cyrille> I think it is free (as in beer)
[17:24:22] <kaiwai> I certainly don't hear people complain about the lack of CDE source
[17:24:41] <richlowe> that, also, is not the point.
[17:24:48] <alanc> I hear it from a number of people (a vocal minority to be sure)
[17:24:51] <Doc> is solaris still available for x86? cos i heard they had dropped that version...
[17:24:57] <kaiwai> as for Free, yeap, free of charge, Open, as in "OpenVMS" and everywhere *looks around*
[17:25:14] <Cyrille> yes, it's still available for x86.
[17:25:31] <Doc> no .. wait.. this week end in an even date, so x86 is on again...
[17:25:48] <kaiwai> Doc: depends on whether some SPARC nut becomes manager
[17:25:59] <Cyrille> now you're trolling, you know very well it's based on planet alignments, not dates...
[17:26:04] <Cyrille> ;-)
[17:26:13] <Doc> kaiwai: nah.. jonathan is in, so x86 is on as long as you've got a ponytail
[17:26:14] <kaiwai> "out processor gets its ass handed on a platter every benchmarket, but we'll keep pushing it"
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[17:26:51] <kaiwai> hmm, he always comes across to me like Mr Bean
[17:27:55] <Doc> ok.. so i have a legit question here...  is there actually any target build for "solaris 11" ?
[17:28:08] <asyd> is Nevada have still some *required* closed sources binaries? (except drivers)
[17:28:15] <Doc> it was originally somewhere in the 70's or 80's, which i believe is where we are now...
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[17:28:35] <kaiwai> iirc i18n libc
[17:28:53] <richlowe> asyd: Yes.
[17:29:02] <richlowe> asyd: libc_i18n and the sparc dissassembler
[17:29:05] <richlowe> both are build dependencies.
[17:29:13] <richlowe> (and libc_i18n obviously at runtime, always)
[17:29:25] <richlowe> there's a few other bits that are variously difficult to get by without at runtime, too.
[17:29:30] <kaiwai> http://i18n-freedom.blogspot.com/
[17:29:46] <richlowe> and jbk has sparc dis bits.
[17:29:53] <asyd> ok
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[17:30:13] <asyd> interesting to know.. I say everywhere in france that opensolaris is fully opensource, so I'm a liar too! :/
[17:30:57] <alanc> Doc: no target set, and with major revampings like the packaging system and install still in progress, not likely to be soon
[17:30:58] <Doc> all of the bits that are open source are open sourced! :)
[17:31:13] <kaiwai> sourcecode so far for it: http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref//emancipation/libc_i18n/
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[17:31:30] <Cyrille> would you be interested in a job in marketing, asyd? ;-)
[17:31:35] <Doc> remind me again what build of solaris next became sol10?  what what build of snv we're up to now?
[17:31:44] <kaiwai> asyd: you're not a liar, just creative with the facts
[17:31:51] <kaiwai> B72 IIRC
[17:32:04] * elektronkind keeps reading that as "Project Emaciation"
[17:32:07] <Berny> according to topic b72 is right...
[17:32:16] <Cyrille> given that opensolaris is if I'm not mistaken just the collection of code, you may be right in your statement.
[17:32:23] <richlowe> Doc: 72 or 73, with however many extra spins.
[17:32:26] <asyd> Cyrille: and work with Eric ? why not :)
[17:32:50] <kaiwai> there are ata problems with B72 on some machines
[17:33:35] <Doc> rich: 74L2a actually :)
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[17:36:01] <kaiwai> asyd: mind you, annoying marketing like this: http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/research/recording_head/pr/PerpendicularAnimation.html wouldn't hurt sun :)
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[17:47:16] <quasi> hot sell nike, jordan, adidas, dunk, puma, prada, sandal, jeans, clothes, hot, glasse - spam attack under way on osol mailinglists
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[17:47:40] <Doc> what's the target date to migrate all of OpenSolaris to Java?
[17:48:26] <quasi> february 30th - year not disclosed
[17:49:05] <kaiwai> the same date when Java stop royally sucking
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[17:49:12] <kaiwai> and Sun adopts SWT over swing
[17:49:22] <kaiwai> and I have a bf
[17:49:24] <Doc> no, java is good
[17:49:33] <Doc> i read on sun.com that it was
[17:49:59] <kaiwai> too bad they're going to punish customers again with panels; you'd think they would have learned something from smc
[17:50:36] <Doc> like you use learn anything from SMC...
[17:51:28] <PerterB> you learn pretty rapidly that it's a waste of space
[17:52:05] <kaiwai> yeap, and memory; fix java then use it to develop software to run on top of solaris
[17:52:13] <kaiwai> not before them
[17:52:16] <kaiwai> *then
[17:54:21] <kaiwai> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/vpanels/screenshots/
[17:54:26] <kaiwai> looks uglier than me naked
[17:54:48] <Doc> damn you must be ugly...
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[17:55:09] <Auralis> hrmm, adobe 8 for sparc is out
[17:55:37] <kaiwai> Doc: of course
[17:55:53] <kaiwai> Auralis: yeah, a royal 'screw you' to x86 users at the same time
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[17:56:48] <richlowe> kaiwai: did you bother to read the FAQ?
[17:56:53] <richlowe> specifically the 2nd to last question.
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[17:57:39] <kaiwai> being sterile is not a concern of mine
[17:57:58] <kaiwai> the issue is the overuse of java
[17:58:08] <kaiwai> get java sucking less then use it, but not before then
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[18:04:26] <CIA-25> mb91622: 6287287 incorrect ecache/l3cache sram identification on ecc bit errors
[18:07:48] <kaiwai> I wish bugs.opensolaris.org didn't such so much
[18:08:39] <elektronkind> kaiwai has reached his kvetching limit for the day
[18:08:52] <elektronkind> anything else you hate? :)
[18:09:16] <kaiwai> hmm
[18:09:19] <kaiwai> good question
[18:10:14] <kaiwai> people who want me to pay for their lifestyle choices
[18:10:23] <kaiwai> thats the biggy for today
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[18:34:31] <alanc> http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9778296-39.html - I see we continue to keep them confused "xVM is a part of the open-source incarnation of Solaris, OpenSolaris, but has yet to be moved to the slower-moving and fully supported Solaris geared for production use."  but then "xVM will be fully integrated into Solaris with the first release of Project Indiana"
[18:34:46] <alanc> so Solaris != OpenSolaris, but Indiana == Solaris ?
[18:35:04] <kaiwai> whats xVM?
[18:35:11] <alanc> Xen
[18:35:18] <sommerfeld> sun's name for a hypervisor which must not be named
[18:35:50] <kaiwai> hmm, an eta on when that is going to happen?
[18:36:37] <alanc> RSN
[18:37:58] <kaiwai> RSN?
[18:38:28] <sommerfeld> real soon now, for nevada
[18:38:29] <alanc> Real Soon Now
[18:38:50] <kaiwai> ah, cool
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[18:39:14] <alanc> (usually implies a bit of slippage, which in Xen's case, already happened, as it was supposed to be in a while ago)
[18:40:08] <kaiwai> oh well, more testing I guess means better quality
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[18:45:31] <eboutilier> Funny that our Indiana PR powers-that-be haven't caught on to Xen yet. It's still its own innovation rather than an Indiana one.
[18:46:09] <eboutilier> Never fear though. It's just a matter of time. (It is cynical Friday day right? ;-) )
[18:46:20] <richlowe> probably because you can't say the X word in public.
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[18:46:43] <richlowe> also, we're all cynical, all the time.
[18:46:44] <eboutilier> No, I just think they haven't caught on yet.
[18:47:38] <trs81> xensource has rather strict rules on the use of the trademark "Xen"
[18:47:52] <eboutilier> That is, caught on to what an incredible thing Xen on OpenSolaris (er, sorry, "Indiana") is going to become.
[18:48:43] <eboutilier> OK, whatever... s/Xen/xVM
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[18:50:53] <g4lt-sb100> xensource is beginning to remind me a lot of sourcefire
[18:55:53] <nachox> xvm? sun marketing strikes back?
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[19:09:21] <sommerfeld> nachox: no, xensource trademark policy scores own goal.
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[19:14:52] <nachox> their policy is not doing them any favor
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[19:17:31] <RElling> CVM,DVM,EVM,FVM,GVM,IVM,JVM,LVM,SVM,xVM... eventually we'll run out of characters
[19:17:33] <pitty> does anyone know of a way to read what goes into /dev/null ? via Dtrace maybe?
[19:18:12] <RElling> you can easily see what is written, truss or dtrace
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[19:19:25] <pitty> without looking at a process, i know i can see this via truss.. but how about via dtrace. sort of like dumping the contents to stdout before /dev/null?
[19:20:22] <RElling> you want to see everything sent to /dev/null?
[19:20:35] <pitty> i would like to, if possible?
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[19:21:28] <Fish-> hello
[19:21:51] <pitty>   dtrace -n 'syscall::read:return /arg0/ {@[execname] = sum(arg0)}'
[19:21:51] <delewis> just write a script that fires on syscall::write:entry, looks up arg0 in @fds[]. There's a pointer for each member of @fds[] that points to the filename. Check that to see if its /dev/null, and if so, dump the buffer pointed to in arg1.
[19:22:11] <delewis> (i can't recall the name of the pointer in @fds[] off the top of my head at the moment)
[19:22:26] <delewis> its in the DTrace documentation, though, and there's plenty of examples to be found elsewhere.
[19:22:35] <richlowe> fi_name
[19:23:02] <richlowe> fi_pathname is the full path, name the basename, dirname the dirname.
[19:23:06] <Gropi> Any English native speaker volunteers to read through 250 word of an presentation abstract?
[19:23:19] <delewis> yeah, amazing how quickly your DTrace-fu goes away when you don't use it for a few days. :-)
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[19:25:32] <delewis> so you'd basically have this: syscall::write:entry /@fds[arg0]->fi_pathname == "/dev/null"/ { ... }
[19:27:39] <delewis> and should you want to see the contents of arg1, just do trace(copyinstr(arg1));
[19:27:40] <richlowe> you'll need the /devices path
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[19:46:29] <brendang> might be better to trace the contents as, printf("%S\n", copyinstr(arg1));
[19:47:12] <brendang> it would be best to trace the write contents as, tracemem(arg1, arg2); - although tracemem doesn't take size as an arg  (I'm hoping to fix that as part of the net providers putback)
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[19:47:30] <agliodbs> anyone using VMware?
[19:47:50] <RElling> brendang what about mmap
[19:48:41] <RElling> or, how do we see writes to /dev/null via mmap?
[19:48:58] <brendang> RElling: you mean writes that are not syscalls?
[19:49:15] <flyingparchment> now someone should release a dtrace script to implement HA-/dev/null
[19:49:19] <flyingparchment> with online backups!
[19:49:29] <wesolows> brendang: quit eating stuff you find in the gutter on Haight St.
[19:50:02] <brendang> wesolows: i don't know what it was - I've eaten too many possibly bad things recently
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[19:50:27] <RElling> or is mmap of /dev/null so wierd that almost nobody does it...
[19:51:45] <flyingparchment> since /dev/null basically has no content, wouldn't any write to it by mmap be past the end of the file?
[19:51:48] <brendang> wesolows: on the list is some pizza I found in the server room fridge last night
[19:51:53] <flyingparchment> or would it appear as an infinitely sized, empty file?
[19:52:05] <brendang> wesolows: although I wasn't able to eat it, since it was rock hard.
[19:52:34] <sommerfeld> mmap of /dev/zero i'd understand
[19:52:55] <brendang> wesolows: however if I *had* eaten any of it - it would certainly be suspect #1
[19:54:20] <wesolows> yes
[19:54:26] <wesolows> I don't know why that stuff is still in there
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[19:54:39] <wesolows> it's almost certainly physically impossible to eat it, at least for humans
[19:54:43] <brendang> wesolows: I threw it out
[19:55:14] <brendang> wesolows: I was amazed at how hard it had become. it was like painted concrete
[19:55:27] <wesolows> you're probably not getting enough alcohol; that kills the bad stuff on food
[19:55:28] <sommerfeld> i wonder how it compared to the carbonized pizza a friend of mine had hanging on the wall in his room.
[19:55:30] <wesolows> that, and ginger.
[19:55:42] <brendang> wesolows: I had both alcolhol and ginger last night
[19:55:53] <sommerfeld> (put in the oven to reheat and forgot about it all night..)
[19:55:58] <wesolows> sommerfeld: left in oven?
[19:55:59] <wesolows> heh yep
[19:56:32] <brendang> anyhow - for writes to an mmap'd /dev/zero - I'd write a test C program that did 23 writes, and frequency count everything from syscall:::,fsinfo::: and fbt::: if I had to.
[19:56:39] <brendang> see what fired 23 times.
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[20:09:47] <CIA-25> is: 6603632 PSARC/2007/458 User land UTF-8 text preparation functions, 6603633 PSARC/2007/517 Uconv functions at libc
[20:11:21] <agliodbs> hmmm, should I be editing grub/menu.lst directly?
[20:11:35] <Berny> agliodbs: why not?
[20:11:56] <agliodbs> just cause it's got this "ADDED BY BOOTADM DO NOT EDIT"
[20:11:57] <agliodbs> stuff in it
[20:12:26] <Berny> well that lines you should know what you're doing ;-)
[20:13:57] <agliodbs> hmmmm
[20:14:42] <agliodbs> for some reason I can only open it read-only in gedit, even as root ...
[20:14:45] <agliodbs> oh, oops
[20:14:47] <agliodbs> I'm not root
[20:16:22] <agliodbs> is it safe to use the Shut Down item from the menu in 70?
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[20:20:38] <agliodbs> wel, I guess I'll find out
[20:20:43] <agliodbs> comay: hey, david
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[20:21:42] <sommerfeld> agliodbs: i've used it (by accident) and it powered off my machine ok.
[20:23:20] <comay> hey there josh
[20:24:36] <wesolows> brendang: have you ever seen Airplane! ? (it had a different name in Australia...Flying High)
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[20:25:23] <agliodbs> sommerfeld: seemed to work
[20:25:32] <agliodbs> wow, 32-bit boots *much* faster
[20:25:39] <agliodbs> now if only VMware suspend worked
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[20:26:16] <sommerfeld> hmm.  i thought the (mostly cosmetic) vm bug where it spent a lot of time walking the address space gap was fixed..
[20:27:49] <sahafeez> no bids on my sb1000 w/xvr-1000. you would think it would be worth something.
[20:27:56] <agliodbs> sommerfeld: fixed when?
[20:28:17] <agliodbs> sommerfeld: I got Nevada 2 weeks ago
[20:28:34] <sommerfeld> looking...
[20:28:43] <agliodbs> haven't wanted to re-install, it takes hours
[20:28:58] <agliodbs> and I need this instance up and running for next week
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[20:29:40] <sommerfeld> the bug I was thinking of was 6569219 wasted time at amd64 boot - issues with htable_walk()
[20:29:43] <sommerfeld> fixed in build 70
[20:30:30] <agliodbs> which build 70?
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[20:32:57] <WickedWicky> it's cmihai
[20:33:13] <WickedWicky> hi all
[20:33:38] <agliodbs> because I have one of the SDXE release candidates, and it's not fixed there
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[20:36:23] <richlowe> it seems unlikely it would hurt running in vmware any more than the fact you *are* running in vmware does.
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[20:47:23] <solfan> does solaris 08/07 support zfs compression?
[20:47:29] <flyingparchment> yes
[20:47:42] <solfan> cool, I'm downloading it now.
[20:48:10] <solfan> I have dual boot with windows, and I have solaris 11/06 installed now.
[20:48:28] <solfan> 08/07 has an upgrade process right?
[20:48:30] <elektronkind> 11/06 supports compression too
[20:48:40] <solfan> never knew that!
[20:48:51] <solfan> gzip compression on 11/06!?
[20:49:03] <elektronkind> gzip no, lzjb yes
[20:49:17] <solfan> gzip is on 8/07?
[20:49:22] <sommerfeld> lzjb compression has been in there since the  initial release
[20:49:25] <solfan> ah
[20:49:30] <solfan> what about ditto blocks?
[20:50:34] <sommerfeld> those are in pool version 2
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[21:00:18] <CIA-25> jwahlig: PSARC 2007/456 Vnode Specific Data, 6588504 VSD: Stop polluting the vnode., 6591603 Use VSD to store and retrieve the "file" struct, 6591606 rfs_create() passes the wrong vnode to rfs4_check_delegated
[21:00:39] <trochej> http://youtube.com/watch?v=OYk5SumcxQw
[21:02:15] <trochej> Rox
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[21:10:56] <jbk>  hi
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[21:18:38] <Tempt> okay
[21:18:41] <Tempt> 5:18am
[21:18:42] <Tempt> sleep time
[21:18:45] <Tempt> night all
[21:18:49] <brendang> cya
[21:21:32] <WickedWicky> sleep well
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[22:00:17] <CIA-25> wyllys: PSARC 2007/426 KMFAPI Interface Taxonomy Change, PSARC 2007/465 pktool symmetric key enhancements, 6546405 KMF Interfaces need to be extensible, 6547894 pktool should be more detailed, 6590232 pktool should import and export generic keys
[22:01:19] <holcomb> kmfapi?
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[22:03:24] <ottom> Key Management Framework.  For crypto.
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[22:35:39] <leal> hello all..
[22:36:08] <leal> what happens when i send a pointer to a structure to a function that receives it like a "long"?
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[22:36:41] <nrubsig> groan
[22:37:13] <nrubsig> I will never ever do that again: Job interview + influenza = mindless babbling.
[22:37:44] <_william_> nrubsig: :)
[22:37:50] <g4lt-sb100> so how is this different from you without the flu? ;P
[22:38:17] * nrubsig strangles g4lt-sb100
[22:38:42] <leal> i'm trying to debug the sndradm (AVS) utility..
[22:38:51] * _william_ tape nrubsig strangling g4lt-sb100 and upload the video to youtube ;)
[22:38:53] <leal> Somebody?
[22:39:15] <nrubsig> _william_: carefully - you may be next.
[22:39:42] <_william_> nrubsig: oh please... i will share the benefit from this video with you :P
[22:39:56] * nrubsig breaks _william_'s neck...
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[22:40:46] <_william_> you i also have flu, and had two (three ?) job appointment this week, but as the recruiter
[22:40:47] <nrubsig> _william_: it was a mistake say anything about "benefits" ... it's all mine... my treasure... myyyyy treasure... *GOLLUM* *GOLLUM* *GOLLUM*
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[22:41:15] <_william_> and i was not able to understand more then 5 consecutive of speech
[22:42:13] <_william_> the guys were talking talking... and at the end of their explanations, i was thinking... well what did he said ? hu... by the way, what was my question :(
[22:42:33] <steleman> ok so now tools-discuss is replacing opensolaris-discuss in terms of pointless spam ?
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[22:42:51] <nrubsig> steleman: tools-compiler ?
[22:42:58] <g4lt-sb100> good, glad it went somewhere lse ;P
[22:43:21] <steleman> nrubsig: tools-whatever-it-is-my-compiler-is-bigger-than-your-compiler-so-there
[22:44:01] <steleman> one more list to unsubscribe form
[22:44:05] <steleman> s/form/from/g
[22:44:21] <g4lt-sb100> ahh epenis-discuss
[22:44:25] <nrubsig> steleman: I'd say we just shoot everyone (and feed the cadavers to komodo dragon) who is opposing that list and we're setteled... =:-)
[22:44:34] <nrubsig> s/dragon/dragons/
[22:45:25] <steleman> nrubsig: i have much more modest goals. i just wish there would be less pontificating and more substance.
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[22:45:39] <richlowe> as long as that substance is beer.
[22:45:39] <nrubsig> does anyone know an URL which has a picture/description how I can map a piano keyboard to a normal computer keyboard ?
[22:45:51] <nrubsig> steleman: amen.
[22:45:51] <richlowe> as a member of the tools community, I heartily endorse beer.
[22:46:09] <nrubsig> richlowe: sorry, today's special is vodka
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[22:47:58] <_william_> today's special is fried english rugbymen ribs  with warm beer
[22:47:59] <_william_> :)
[22:48:12] <steleman> _william_: dont forget the mint jelly
[22:48:24] <_william_> the match is over... so is the nightmare for english. 36 - 0
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[22:48:29] <_william_> it hurts...
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[22:50:31] <alanc> richlowe: so will the tools community create beer-discuss?   it's a tool used to create Solaris used almost as much as the compilers....
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[22:58:34] <clay> I'm having trouble setting up a build environment to build multiboot, the GA solaris boot loader, to correct a bug in it
[22:59:22] <clay> specifically, some of the onbld tools seem to want to use gcc, and are failing due to invalid options
[22:59:36] <clay> any ideas?
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[23:06:27] <alanc> are you using the gcc from /usr/sfw/bin ?
[23:06:39] <clay> it's trying too, yes
[23:07:01] <clay> what version of Studio is required?
[23:07:23] <clay> I have Sun C 5.9 SunOS_i386 2007/05/03, but the error I get is:
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[23:07:52] <clay> err, what version of gcc is required? :)
[23:07:55] <clay> cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-fno-dwarf2-indirect-strings"
[23:07:56] <clay> cc: Warning: -xarch=amd64 is deprecated, use -m64 to create 64-bit programs
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[23:08:13] <quasi> Warning, not error
[23:08:18] <flyingparchment> clay: you are using nevada, not solaris 10, right?
[23:08:25] <clay> I am trying to build on GA
[23:08:30] <clay> which is all I have
[23:08:32] <flyingparchment> you can't
[23:08:37] <clay> crap
[23:08:37] <wesolows> don't do that then
[23:08:54] <clay> I have to fix one tiny little bug in multiboot, and soon, and don't have the time to setup an opensolaris box
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[23:09:40] <clay> hmm maybe I can find a VMware image w/ studio
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[23:10:55] <clay> anybody know of one?
[23:11:43] <clay> would anyone be willing to extract a tar in their open solaris source tree and build multiboot for me?
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[23:16:30] <cmihai> clay, get the latest SXCE (72), install in VMware, it has Studio.
[23:19:00] <clay> solaris express developer edition?
[23:19:12] <flyingparchment> the studio in SXDE cannot build onnv
[23:19:19] <clay> nice
[23:19:20] <flyingparchment> you need to uninstall it and get the proper one from opensolaris.org
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[23:19:48] <clay> how about the one in SXCE?
[23:19:58] <flyingparchment> that doesn't have one, so install CE and then get the compiler
[23:20:06] <flyingparchment> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/tools/sun_studio_tools/sun_studio_11_tools/
[23:20:17] <clay> omg this is so complicated ;)
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[23:24:51] <clay> do I need all the CDs?
[23:25:46] <clay> (for SXCE)
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[23:55:48] <cmihai> flyingparchment, erm SXCE has the same crap SXDE has.
[23:56:02] <cmihai> It's the same thing basically, just that SXDE is a more "refined" build.
[23:56:08] <clay> uhm
[23:56:13] <clay> so what do I need to do?
[23:56:20] <clay> I'm downloading SXCE now
[23:56:24] <clay> 1. remove Studio
[23:56:30] <clay> 2. install new Studio
[23:56:31] *** yippi has quit IRC
[23:56:32] <flyingparchment> cmihai: even if you select the SX option from grub?
[23:56:33] <clay> 3. install build tools
[23:56:38] <clay> 4. install source
[23:56:39] <flyingparchment> i thought that gave you the non-DE stuff
[23:56:40] <clay> 5. build? :)
[23:57:21] <cmihai> And you can just get the DVD.. but flyingparchment is right: Sun Studio 12 can't build onnv yet, so you can safely skip the Developer install in SXCE and install SS 11 yourself.
[23:57:50] <clay> I'm getting the CDs .. I was hoping there were some I could skip
[23:58:02] <clay> all I want is the kernel, a shell, and the compiler :-P





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