September 13, 2007 
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September 13, 2007 [00:00:15] <CIA-24> haimay: 6602015 cryptotest dumps core [00:00:21] *** estibi_ has joined #opensolaris [00:00:30] <jbk> when /tmp fills up, our policy was anything in there is fair game [00:00:49] <jbk> that tended to prevent problems :) [00:00:52] <elektronkind> I'm tempted to. but god knows, knowing our users, we'll nuke something and then we'll get a ticket in from the user asking if we can restore their crud from /tmp. [00:01:12] <hile_> "no. fuck off" [00:01:18] <elektronkind> that would be just as funny as the tickets we DO get in from users who want their Trash mail folder restored [00:01:21] <cmihai> Isn't tmp tmpfs and cleared on reboot on most machines? [00:01:29] <jbk> on solaris, yes [00:01:38] <hile_> "but it was the only draft of my dissertation" "no really, fuck off" [00:01:47] <cmihai> jbk, oh, what are you using there [00:01:54] <elektronkind> it is... but I haven't mentioned that our multi-user shell boxes, for instructional software purposes, are linux. That means a real fs for /tmp [00:02:01] <cmihai> I know NetBSD and Linux do tmpfs too. [00:02:41] <jbk> hpux doesn't [00:02:48] <jbk> not sure about aix [00:02:51] <cmihai> Neither does AIX. [00:03:04] <cmihai> Oh, wait. [00:03:11] <cmihai> AIX does have a swap backed memory filesystem for tmp. [00:03:27] <jbk> which unfortunately, it seems that hp-ux encourages /tmp to be a free-for-all dumping ground [00:05:47] <sahafeez> so no one at sun understands the history of sgi i guess - http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070912-sun-to-sell-windows-server-boxes.html [00:05:56] *** johnlev has quit IRC [00:06:07] <delewis> how is Sun being an Microsoft OEM a big deal? [00:06:18] <delewis> the AMD64 gear was already capable of runnig Windows to begin with. [00:06:20] <sahafeez> ask SGI [00:06:24] <sahafeez> :) [00:06:25] <delewis> and this is not related to what SGI did. [00:06:31] *** johnlev has joined #opensolaris [00:06:46] <elektronkind> hell, the galaxy boxes are Win2k3 certified, even [00:06:52] <jmcp> have been for ages [00:07:10] <sahafeez> hum, i have a friend that was @ sgi. he is now a hedge fund manager. i have been trying to point him to the fact that sun is good buy. i am sure i have no hope now :) [00:07:11] <delewis> SGI customized their hardware with the same PROM the MIPS systems had (non-BIOS) and only SGI-modified Windows releases could run on the hardware. [00:07:21] <delewis> sahafeez: just. hush. Get your facts straight. [00:07:28] * nrubsig enables hunt-down-putback-sponsors-mode [00:07:30] <sahafeez> i know that - it is just the look of things... [00:07:34] * nrubsig looks at johnlev [00:07:35] * delewis wonders why we just can't throw kaiwai and sahafeez in #opensolaris-null [00:07:54] <cmihai> kaiwai at least [00:08:05] <nrubsig> delewis: I am already in that channel and it's too boring... [00:08:15] *** bondolo has joined #opensolaris [00:08:20] <cmihai> That little wimp just pisses me off. [00:08:29] <sahafeez> you would be bored - and i tend to be more useful then annoying... [00:08:30] <delewis> nrubsig: isn't that the point? :-) [00:08:43] <sahafeez> selling my sb1000 if anyone wants it. [00:10:41] <cmihai> delewis, actually, good things may come of this parternship. Or close enough anyway. [00:10:46] <nrubsig> alanc: Could you sign-up as sponsor for OS/Net, please ? [00:10:52] <delewis> I never said it was a bad thing. [00:11:02] <delewis> I'm just asking why it matters? [00:11:13] <delewis> Sun was promoting Windows beforehand. [00:11:16] <alanc> sorry, first you have to do ON putbacks, and I've never done one - would take months for me to become a sponsor [00:11:32] <cmihai> Microsoft has been long working along side Xen Source (The new Citrix aquisition) to get proper virtualization inside Windows 2008 (it has native stuff now). [00:11:44] <cmihai> From what I gather, Solaris will be supported too, so that's half nice. [00:11:55] <nrubsig> alanc: ;-( [00:11:58] <cmihai> Not that it's really a good idea to run Solaris on Windows on Sun hardware ;P [00:12:07] *** forelle has quit IRC [00:12:10] <alanc> you'll probably be able to putback to ON before I will [00:12:11] <nrubsig> cmihai: in Qemu! [00:12:51] <nrubsig> cmihai: Run Solaris on Windows in QEmu on Linux on Xen on Sun hardware! [00:13:11] <Auralis> in a zone [00:13:18] * nrubsig wonders if VMware could be added to that chain somewhere... [00:13:31] <nrubsig> ok [00:13:41] <dwc-> a zone or a logical domain? [00:13:50] <Auralis> a zone in a ldom? :) [00:13:51] <charlesnw> well... for anyone who has paid attention the what windows virt bits are offering.... its quite a solid platform. using windows virtualization managed via system center to run any guest os. its a very nice stack [00:13:54] <cmihai> Man,artechnica sure is a biased site full of Linux weirdos. [00:13:55] <sahafeez> hum, you forget running it all on a hacked copy of os x on a sun x86 in parrells desktop [00:14:21] <nrubsig> cmihai: Run an application in a Solaris zone on Windows in VMware on Linux running within QEmu on FreeBSD on Xen on Sun hardware! [00:14:38] <charlesnw> compared to what vmware and xen offer for management.... microsoft has a MUCH better solution [00:15:06] <charlesnw> and i am hardly a windows using bigot :) i run vmware on a ubuntu host with ubuntu/rhel/solaris/w2k3/w2k8 guests [00:15:15] <charlesnw> vmware server. [00:15:37] <charlesnw> but when windows virtualiztion beta comes out.... i am definetely going to be evaluating it [00:15:37] *** sahafeez has quit IRC [00:16:47] <charlesnw> granted the jokes about how many virtaulization elements you can place in a stack are quite funny.... its a testement to how powerful virtaulization is [00:16:54] *** estibi has quit IRC [00:17:09] <StFS> hello... how can I reconfigure my ethernet adapter so it uses a static ip instead of DHCP? [00:17:22] <charlesnw> http://www.microsoft.com/systemcenter/scvmm/default.mspx [00:17:40] <cmihai> Yeah, I know. [00:17:47] <cmihai> Virtual Center 2 is worse [00:18:08] <cmihai> The new stuff in MS seems to have HA and all that also. Could actually be a good product. [00:18:13] <charlesnw> and powershell is nothing to sneez at either. and with the interop lab that novell and sun are working with MS at.... wow. some really cool stuff is going to be coming out soon [00:18:41] *** Tpent1 has joined #opensolaris [00:18:50] <cmihai> Meh, I'd rather do Interix / zsh than Powershell [00:19:00] <charlesnw> now i still like solaris and niagra for running a lot of zones with heavy multi threaded apps (the majority of enterprise j2ee apps out there) [00:19:11] <charlesnw> have you used powershell? [00:19:14] *** timeless has quit IRC [00:19:20] <cmihai> Yes [00:19:23] <charlesnw> ok [00:19:34] <charlesnw> well at least you have used it and aren't making baseless arguments :) [00:19:40] <cmihai> I'm not that much on OO / .NET [00:19:47] <charlesnw> sure :) [00:19:58] <cmihai> I'd rather have a good old ksh for scripts and zsh for interactive stuff. [00:20:26] <cmihai> SUA/SFU/Interix have that, and a nice ssh server, so it makes it usable. But it's hardly properly maintained. [00:20:33] *** Vorbis_w has quit IRC [00:21:32] <cmihai> Still, if it is good for something, is that now GUI commands actually have full command line corespondence in powershell... [00:21:40] <charlesnw> indeed [00:22:07] <cmihai> It's funny, but Windows is going UNIX-y [00:22:08] <cmihai> Seen 2008? [00:22:18] <cmihai> It has a no-explorer install. No GUI, just command line / serial [00:22:26] <charlesnw> yes i run it as a guest in vmw :) [00:22:33] <charlesnw> its called windows 2008 core [00:22:47] <boyd> Morning all [00:23:18] <cmihai> Yeah [00:23:58] <elektronkind> can you edit C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MOTD.TXT ? [00:24:03] <elektronkind> :) [00:24:05] <boyd> What do you run on a no-gui windows? [00:24:06] *** sahafeez has joined #opensolaris [00:24:07] <charlesnw> heh [00:24:42] <cmihai> Well, you can run OpenSSH servers and sendmail :P [00:24:51] <elektronkind> yeah... Windows without the windows. that has to be interesting to see [00:25:26] <charlesnw> its pretty cool [00:25:37] <cmihai> Not something possible without PowerShell though. The old cmd was lame, and the tools... simple. It's all net/netsh, bleah [00:25:50] <cmihai> Yeah, it feels a bit like a NetWare hehe [00:25:59] <cmihai> A bit too much even. [00:26:01] *** victori has quit IRC [00:26:09] *** Tpenta has quit IRC [00:26:34] <elektronkind> doskey [00:27:05] *** victori has joined #opensolaris [00:27:40] <cmihai> charlesnw, I love how they've added ps and ls :P [00:27:55] <cmihai> I _always_ type those like 20 times in a row in CMD until I go: D'oh! [00:28:09] <charlesnw> hahahah yeah [00:30:11] *** Baton has quit IRC [00:31:52] *** dlg has quit IRC [00:32:13] *** derchris has quit IRC [00:33:23] *** diomac has joined #opensolaris [00:39:00] *** bengtf_ has joined #opensolaris [00:42:10] <nrubsig> WTF is twitter ? [00:42:36] <elektronkind> think of a cross between blogging and AIM [00:42:47] <nrubsig> groan [00:42:48] *** elektronkind has quit IRC [00:42:49] <nrubsig> madness [00:42:51] *** elektronkind has joined #opensolaris [00:42:59] *** elektronkind has quit IRC [00:43:04] *** elektronkind has joined #opensolaris [00:43:22] <elektronkind> dear god these firewall flaps we're having are untennable. [00:43:34] <elektronkind> it's sniping random TCP sessions [00:45:43] *** Emmedics4 has joined #opensolaris [00:47:00] *** cmihai has quit IRC [00:47:18] *** johnlev has quit IRC [00:47:50] *** victori__ has joined #opensolaris [00:48:03] *** victori has quit IRC [00:49:39] *** johnlev has joined #opensolaris [00:50:36] *** charlesnw has quit IRC [00:50:58] *** Emmedics4 has quit IRC [00:51:23] <nrubsig> elektronkind: firewalll with garbage collection gone wild... :-) [00:51:34] <alanc> nrubsig: but twitter is madness hosted on machines running Solaris Nevada, so we have to love it [00:51:51] <nrubsig> groan [00:52:11] <elektronkind> is twitter a joyent thing? [00:53:56] <alanc> twitter is hosted at joyent, but run by another company [00:54:31] * Gman loves twitter [00:54:49] <Gman> if you want ksh demo ideas, write a twitter client :) [00:55:04] *** Vorbis_w has joined #opensolaris [00:55:26] <alanc> just convince joyent to move to Indiana, that will get you lots of free PR [00:55:57] <nrubsig> Gman: email me the protocol spec, please ? [00:56:21] <Gman> alanc, benr likes the idea to start with :) [00:56:24] <nrubsig> Gman: we could make a deal: you sponsor the ksh93 demo update putback and I write a twitter client for it ? [00:56:49] <Gman> nrubsig, http://twitter.com/help/api [00:56:54] * Gman can't sponsor [00:57:15] *** derchris has joined #opensolaris [00:57:20] *** NikolaVeber has quit IRC [00:58:08] <nrubsig> Gman: grumpf [00:59:19] <Gman> if i could, i would, but i physically can't [01:00:20] <CIA-24> nw141292: 6598382 idmapd should have its own ccache [01:01:01] <nrubsig> Gman: writing a twitter client is easy... I have demos for XML parsing, XML tree handling, DOM, XML-RPC and RSS queued. [01:01:20] <Gman> cool [01:01:40] <nrubsig> but it feels it doesn't make much sense to write more apps since finding a sponsor for changes is... impossible. [01:01:43] <nrubsig> it stinks [01:01:51] <nrubsig> (sorry) [01:02:13] <nrubsig> maybe a bit of an overreaction but it sucks that I am piling up patches on my side which are just rotting here. [01:02:41] <nrubsig> even worse I have the next ksh93 update done. [01:02:46] <nrubsig> needs a sponsor, too. [01:03:24] <nrubsig> and there is http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6601968 which needs a sponsor, too. [01:04:24] <Gman> i agree, it's far from optimal [01:04:41] <nrubsig> (see http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/indiana-discuss/2007-September/002185.html for a possible consumer) [01:04:57] <Gman> but i can only sit and say that from the peanut gallery - your patches don't effect a consolidation i have any influence with [01:05:12] <nrubsig> groan [01:08:16] *** sahafeez has quit IRC [01:08:52] <nrubsig> Gman: the waiting drains all fun of the stuff. [01:10:10] *** victori__ has quit IRC [01:10:15] *** victori has joined #opensolaris [01:14:29] *** Tpenta has joined #opensolaris [01:14:32] <Tpenta> morning all [01:15:23] <Gman> hey Tpent1 [01:16:29] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Tpenta [01:19:51] <elektronkind> f [01:22:48] *** Tpent1 has quit IRC [01:29:02] <diomac> anyone know of some howto's for deploying windows apps with sun global desktop? [01:34:39] *** sfire||mouse has joined #opensolaris [01:44:36] <jbk> nope [01:47:00] <jmcp> diomac: I thought that was fairly well documented in tfm for sgd [01:47:12] <jmcp> and pretty darned obvious how to do anyway [01:47:22] * jmcp growls @ the concept of a "howto" [01:52:58] <diomac> jmcp how about you belt up if you don't actually have something useful to say [01:53:13] <jmcp> diomac: I told you it's in tfm [01:53:18] <jmcp> aka "the fine manual" [01:53:55] <jmcp> we do actually have very well-written documentation [01:54:08] <diomac> if you think so [01:54:13] <jmcp> I know so [01:54:19] <wesolows> diomac: if you don't, then please file a bug [01:54:29] <Tempt> diomac: Check my blog at www2.purplecow.org [01:54:30] <wesolows> if no one files a bug, nothing will get fixed [01:54:34] <Tempt> diomac: There's an instant howto there [01:54:41] <Tempt> diomac: Honestly, it isn't hard. [01:55:08] <jmcp> diomac: http://onesearch.sun.com/search/docs/index.jsp?col=docs_en&locale=en&qt=sun+global+desktop+deploy+windows [01:55:59] <jmcp> diomac: or @ Tempt's blog:: http://www2.purplecow.org/?p=41 [01:56:07] *** vmlemon has quit IRC [01:57:19] *** pfa3rh has quit IRC [02:00:25] <CIA-24> jm22469: 6589682 IO-DOMAIN-RESET (Ontario-AA): kern_postprom panic on tavor-pcix configuration (reboot) [02:01:53] <brendang> Tempt: have the MOSUG photos been posted yet? [02:05:23] <Tempt> brendang: Not that I know of [02:05:53] <Tempt> brendang: Pretty good turnout though [02:07:02] <brendang> Tempt: I heard that 400 people showed up. great work! [02:07:12] <brendang> Tempt: or 40. :) [02:07:42] *** Pietro_S has quit IRC [02:11:58] *** helpmehome has quit IRC [02:12:35] *** libkeise1 has joined #opensolaris [02:12:52] *** bubbva has quit IRC [02:16:03] *** helpmehome has joined #opensolaris [02:16:15] <Tempt> brendang: 40 would be a little more reasonable. [02:16:59] <Tempt> brendang: A substantial slice of that 40 were on the Sun payroll, though. [02:17:42] <victori> having an odd issue installing solaris on some ibm rackmount, it sees the nic but nic does not seem to respond to the network [02:17:49] <victori> I have seen this before with a debian install [02:17:56] <victori> freebsd/netbsd seem to work with it [02:20:13] *** jwk404 has quit IRC [02:23:12] <victori> http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:MSYf46I-OWMJ:forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa%3FthreadID%3D5135492%26messageID%3D9497074+solaris+iprb0+connectivity&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us [02:23:15] <victori> pretty much my issue [02:24:18] *** linux_user400354 has joined #opensolaris [02:25:13] *** libkeiser has quit IRC [02:26:23] *** Shiv__ has joined #opensolaris [02:35:18] *** sfire||mouse has quit IRC [02:39:35] *** alanc is now known as alanc-away [02:40:18] *** cormac_ has joined #opensolaris [02:40:27] <cormac_> whats the deal with compiling on with gcc ? [02:41:04] <cormac_> there seems to be no documentation or howto [02:41:09] <cormac_> or is it even possible? [02:41:14] <jmcp> cormac_: it's possible [02:41:23] <jmcp> cormac_: there should be doco about it on opensolaris.org [02:41:25] * jmcp looks for a url [02:41:40] <cormac_> im looking through it here, but the makefile structure is totally incompatible [02:42:04] <jbk> howso? [02:42:10] <jmcp> cormac_: you're assuming use of gmake [02:42:14] <jmcp> which we don't do [02:42:15] <cormac_> yes [02:42:18] <jmcp> we use Sun's make or dmake [02:42:29] <cormac_> aye eyah, I was trying dmake [02:42:40] <cormac_> but Im guessing its not the right dmake [02:42:48] <jmcp> cormac_: are you getting errors? [02:42:56] <cormac_> dmake: Makefile.master: line 91: Warning -- Incomplete macro expression [)] [02:43:05] <cormac_> I havnt really investigated though [02:43:34] <jmcp> did you set your env vars as per http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/devref_toc/devref_4/ [02:44:11] <jmcp> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/tools/gcc and http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/pages/2006033001 too, incidentally [02:44:24] <cormac_> hmm, not all no :D [02:46:02] <Tempt> Man, Sun talking themselves out of sales. [02:46:34] <Shiv__> Is it necessary that I am a root user to build SFW? [02:46:43] <jmcp> shouldn't be [02:46:55] <Tempt> Our "CTO" just cruised 'round [02:47:02] <Tempt> He was getting the cheery sales pitch on Solx86 [02:47:13] <Tempt> so he's decided to nix buying some SPARC boxes and buy DL380s instead. [02:47:16] <Tempt> heh. [02:47:29] <Tempt> Hey, check this: [02:47:30] *** johnlev has quit IRC [02:47:31] <Tempt> See the source of all the hoopla, QNX Neutrino RTOS source code is now available [02:47:37] <Shiv__> The very first step of populating the proto area seems to have /export/sfwnv hardcoded. It is not picking it from the <env>.sh that is set using bldenv [02:47:40] <Tempt> QNX Software Systems is tearing down the walls between proprietary and open source software. In fact, we~Rve bridged the best of both worlds in a [02:48:10] *** diomac has quit IRC [02:49:53] *** Cass has joined #opensolaris [02:51:08] <jbk> Tempt: has he looked at sun's x86 servers? [02:52:56] *** ByteEnable has joined #opensolaris [02:53:22] <richlowe> Shiv__: worked for me. [02:53:24] <Tempt> jbk: Standard platforms, man. If you want x86 around here, it's HP [02:53:25] <richlowe> echo $ROOT [02:53:34] <Tempt> jbk: It used to be if you wanted Solaris, you got SPARC. [02:53:41] <ByteEnable> I just installed OpenSolaris DE, and its doing nothing with my online account registration. Is this app busted? [02:53:50] <Tempt> jbk: All the x86 propaganda though is beginning to settle in. [02:53:58] <jbk> Tempt: but standards are not set in stone :) [02:54:06] <Tempt> jbk: They are around here. [02:54:17] <jbk> in that case, why aren't you still on dos? :) [02:54:17] *** andy_ has joined #opensolaris [02:54:23] <Tempt> :) [02:54:26] <jbk> running PC XTs [02:54:28] <Tempt> HP probably provided the DOS boxes ;) [02:54:39] <Tempt> Or Compaq ;) [02:55:02] <Tempt> Also, HP boxes are cheaper. [02:55:06] <jbk> standards for standards sake are useless :) there has to be some benefit to having them IMO [02:55:20] <Shiv__> richlowe: Working. sorry for the trouble. It is just that I had too many workspaces open and a minor mixup. [02:55:30] <richlowe> Oh, yeah. [02:55:33] <richlowe> bldenv does that wrong. [02:55:47] *** Andy_Pease has quit IRC [02:55:50] <richlowe> (enough people have suggested it's intentional that I doubt it'll ever do it right, too) [02:56:31] *** yongsun has joined #opensolaris [02:57:49] *** simford has joined #opensolaris [02:58:05] <Shiv__> :) [02:59:31] *** ashner has joined #opensolaris [02:59:51] <Shiv__> People talk of collaboration between huge community/distro groups in linux world, and here we are unable to get a *common* CBE across consolidations :) [03:00:29] <victori> anyone here with an iprb0 device? [03:00:36] *** Kernel86_ has joined #OpenSolaris [03:00:40] <victori> I get no connectivity with mine ;-/ [03:01:18] <Tempt> Shiv__: It's not about collaboration, it's about competition. [03:01:37] <richlowe> What is uncommon with the CBE? [03:01:52] <richlowe> various consolidations need extra bits, but the things they share should all match. [03:01:56] <richlowe> at least of the open consolidations. [03:01:57] <Shiv__> Tempt: Dont tell me desktop competes with ON [03:02:02] *** karrotx has joined #opensolaris [03:02:03] <richlowe> (though that may vary around the times they change) [03:02:10] <wesolows> What the JDS people call the CBE is really nothing like what the rest of the consolidations call it [03:02:15] <richlowe> Shiv__: only to the extent that Desktop do everything wrong, and refuse to accept their heresy ;) [03:02:35] <wesolows> same as what richlowe said, without the ;) [03:03:22] <Shiv__> richlowe: Ok ok. I am not getting into this, lest a start a flame without an meaningful end :) [03:04:41] <Shiv__> What does make -f Makefile.sfw do? Apart from creating the binary bits, does it populate the proto area? [03:05:08] <richlowe> make shouldn't, make install should. [03:05:13] <Shiv__> Or should i use make -f Makefile.sfw install to populate the proto area? [03:05:22] <Shiv__> Ok. [03:07:18] *** MIR100 has quit IRC [03:11:07] <Tempt> boyd: ping [03:11:14] *** bengtf has quit IRC [03:11:48] <Shiv__> Is /usr/sfw still being populated (>B70) [03:12:23] <Shiv__> I see results going into /usr/bin & /usr/lib, but the directory /usr/sfw is present in the proto area. Are there packages which are not yet migrated? [03:15:11] *** libkeiser has joined #opensolaris [03:17:24] *** nrubsig has left #opensolaris [03:17:36] *** palowoda has quit IRC [03:17:41] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC [03:18:43] <Shiv__> What does the message mean: #opensolaris ("Local kill by Shiv__: Go away you... you... shell-ie!") [03:19:22] <wesolows> I don't know, actually. [03:19:41] <boyd> Tempt: pong [03:19:42] <richlowe> it's just roland being... roland. [03:19:48] <sommerfeld> that's the second part of a long line. the first half was "nrubsig (n=gisburn at dslb-084-058-245-049 dot pools.arcor-ip.net) has left " [03:20:03] <wesolows> oh, that's roland's idea of a joke [03:20:12] <wesolows> pretending that you killed him, which you couldn't have [03:20:12] <richlowe> he's trying to make it look like a /kill, but failing to account for the fact it never actually does. [03:20:39] *** sfire||mouse has joined #opensolaris [03:21:28] <sommerfeld> ITYM "/kick" [03:21:29] *** LoBoX has quit IRC [03:22:15] <sommerfeld> Which I could demonstrate if someone wanted to be a victim. [03:22:23] *** Shiv has joined #opensolaris [03:22:47] *** Shiv has left #opensolaris [03:23:07] <richlowe> No, I meant /kill [03:23:09] <sommerfeld> Shiv__: to answer your question: /usr/sfw still has stuff in it. But relatively little of that stuff comes from the ON consolidation. [03:23:19] <richlowe> sommerfeld: was there more to your question of earlier? [03:23:54] <sommerfeld> your answer was vaguely useful. [03:24:44] *** LoBoX has joined #opensolaris [03:25:36] <Tempt> boyd: Heya, cheers for putting that preso online. I'm lu'ing my x86 scratchbox at the moment [03:25:51] <Tempt> boyd: I'm also screenshotting and logging with screen, so I might post a walkthrough later today. [03:26:01] <boyd> Heh... don't forget the biosdev hack :) [03:26:14] <Tempt> :) [03:26:18] <wesolows> !@#$!$ biosdev [03:26:21] *** Shiv has joined #opensolaris [03:26:41] <Tempt> We'll see how it goes - I'm not doing an Ultra-20, I'm doing a whitebox [03:26:44] <Tempt> biosdev returns 0x80 /pci@0,0/pci-ide@f/ide@0/cmdk@0,0 [03:27:12] <richlowe> I especially like biosdev's "You need to be root" error message. [03:27:17] <richlowe> by which I mean, "di_prom_init failed" [03:27:24] <richlowe> because, of course, *everyone* knows why di_prom_init may fail. [03:27:44] *** libkeise1 has quit IRC [03:27:47] <brendang> wesolows: boyd has a fix for biosdev here, http://www.users.on.net/~boyd.adamson/misc/msosug-07-09-12-liveupgrade.pdf, page 49 [03:27:51] <Tempt> boyd: So, what do you want to do for this ZFS preso? [03:28:11] <wesolows> there is no fix for biosdev [03:28:22] <Tempt> brendang: workaround might be a better term [03:28:29] <wesolows> the fix is to stop using the BIOS [03:28:30] <boyd> wesolows: Mine is more of a "replace with cat" than a fix [03:28:39] <richlowe> Yeah, that's the workaround on the bug in question. [03:28:45] <wesolows> boyd: Does your approach stop comparing the first sector of the disks? [03:28:48] <richlowe> assuming we're meaning the bug jmcp and various others complained about. [03:28:51] <Tempt> hey, at least boyd found a use of cat that doesn't upset him ;) [03:29:05] <boyd> richlowe: I dunno... found it independantly [03:29:09] <brendang> wesolows: boyd's approach is much more clever... [03:29:14] <richlowe> Tempt: I don't believe you :) [03:29:21] <wesolows> Well, we should try it here. [03:29:29] <boyd> Tempt: brendang has suggested a way to eliminate that cat [03:29:34] <richlowe> Tempt: See. [03:29:35] <wesolows> None of the U40s install properly thanks to biosdev [03:29:44] <boyd> Tempt: #!/usr/bin/sed 1d [03:29:51] <brendang> wesolows: ahh. then the 'fix' should work. [03:30:09] <boyd> Tempt: or #!/usr/bin/tail +2 [03:30:45] * Tempt mutters something about "Why can't Sun port OpenFirmware to x86 for their hosts?" [03:31:22] *** perlmonk has quit IRC [03:31:39] <boyd> Tempt: because then you couldnt' run windows? [03:31:46] <boyd> s/t'/'t [03:31:51] <Tempt> could make it optional [03:32:14] <Tempt> change a setting or jumper to switch between the two. [03:32:19] <wesolows> that's not a solution [03:32:25] <wesolows> it's not even a workaround, really [03:32:29] <Tempt> Have a little switch on the back "Windows mode" or "Working mode" [03:32:44] *** comay has quit IRC [03:32:49] <wesolows> I should have looked away [03:33:32] <boyd> Heh [03:33:51] <boyd> Well, it let me LU and I couldn't before, so... [03:34:16] <sommerfeld> i'm a little disturbed by the discussion of eliminating cats... [03:34:20] <wesolows> Slightly less gross would be to have a table of SMBIOS chassis IDs and the corresponding boot disk paths in biosdev itself (or, better yet, in the kernel) [03:34:22] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris [03:34:36] <boyd> wesolows: Oh, sure... but I had about 1 minute. [03:34:41] <wesolows> But that still doesn't help people on non-Sun gear [03:34:53] <wesolows> biosdev just needs to not be so stupid [03:36:37] <boyd> Definitely [03:36:48] <Tempt> s/dev// [03:41:37] *** sfire||mouse has quit IRC [03:42:31] <Shiv> wesolows: Debugging the makefiles in the ON/SFW/CCD CBE is a pain. [03:42:46] <wesolows> Makefiles have nothing to do with the CBE [03:43:02] <wesolows> CBE = compilers, basically [03:43:09] <wesolows> compilers + tools, more generally [03:43:46] <Shiv> What is the "E" in CBE? Shouldn't it be the makefile structures + env.sh's.... [03:43:49] <wesolows> what's wrong with the ON/SFW/CCD makefiles? I know people complain about them, but I find them reasonably easy to work with. [03:43:52] <wesolows> Environment [03:43:53] *** sioraiocht has quit IRC [03:44:13] <wesolows> no, Environment is a good choice of words; it refers to "that which is outside" the workspace being built. [03:44:20] <wesolows> its surroundings, if you will [03:44:34] <Shiv> I know the abbreviation, I was objecting to your point by indicating the "E" [03:44:53] <wesolows> I disagree, then. The environment is what's outside, the consolidation structure is what's inside. [03:45:03] *** jafari has joined #opensolaris [03:46:05] <Shiv> So would you say, CBE==SUNWonbld [03:46:26] <wesolows> that's part of the environment, yes - and especially for update/patch gate CBEs, that matters a lot [03:46:48] <wesolows> it's less important for Nevada, where the intent is that onbld is in sync with what's in the gate anyway [03:47:23] <wesolows> So I'd say SUNWonbld is a subset of the CBE. [03:47:27] <wesolows> As are the compilers. [03:47:50] <wesolows> And, more broadly speaking, the contents of the build machine itself with respect to the consolidations other than the one being built. [03:48:10] <wesolows> Again, this matters most in updates, where the base bits on the system are not changed from the FCS release. [03:48:17] <Shiv> So do you say, CBE=SUNWonbld+SUNWspro+<what else> [03:48:20] <wesolows> Of course, you don't have to care about any of that, because it's Solaris only [03:48:40] <wesolows> For example, you need libnetsnmp*.so.* to build ON. [03:48:48] <wesolows> Thus, that's part of the BE [03:49:11] <Shiv> Since CBE should provided a consistent build env, it cannot be too broad as saying "the contents of the machine" [03:49:14] <wesolows> Broadly speaking, the BE is everything on the build machine that's not the workspace being built. [03:49:27] <Shiv> It should be possible to itemize [03:49:29] <wesolows> Well, it is, whether or not you like it. [03:49:59] <wesolows> Yes, and to the extent that it is possible, the CBE is the itemised description of the desired BE for a particular release. [03:50:23] *** Shiv__ has quit IRC [03:50:57] <Shiv> .. [03:51:19] <wesolows> I wish the W-team CBE pages were on opensolaris.org. [03:51:46] <Shiv> Is that some kind of documentation for the CBE(s) [03:51:57] <richlowe> wesolows: get alanc's proposal through, and they will be by definition. [03:52:00] <wesolows> Since the pages aren't marked confidential, here is the content of the NV CBE page [03:52:07] <wesolows> oh, they are, nm [03:52:24] <wesolows> let me see if I can find a non-confidential copy [03:52:34] <wesolows> (there is NO reason for this stuff to be marked confidential, btw) [03:52:40] <richlowe> so paste it anyway. [03:52:55] <Shiv> To rephrase your inputs, CBE=SXDE+SUNWonbld+closed-bits together. [03:53:03] <richlowe> the overuse of the proprietary/confidential footer has made it practically meaningless anyway. [03:53:08] <wesolows> what? no [03:53:09] <richlowe> so you're stuck making judgement calls whatever you do. [03:53:26] <wesolows> SXDE is not the CBE, nor is "closed-bits" [03:53:39] <wesolows> I'll paraphrase the "confidential" page [03:53:48] <wesolows> Studio 11. J2SE 1.6. [03:53:51] <wesolows> There you have it. [03:53:52] <wesolows> That's it. [03:54:03] <Shiv> But SXDE is the base system !? [03:54:15] <wesolows> I'm pointing out how poorly specified the CBE is. [03:54:21] <richlowe> SXDE is an abomination. [03:54:22] <Shiv> I thought you didnt want the system to be delineated from the tools [03:54:29] <wesolows> If you want to be angry about it (why, btw?) be angry with the W-team. [03:54:46] <wesolows> SXDE is actually not used by anyone, really [03:55:03] <Shiv> !!! ??? [03:55:11] <wesolows> people generally use something identical to what goes out as SXCE, then BFU'd repeatedly. [03:55:22] <wesolows> s/anyone/anyone at Sun building consolidations for integration/ [03:55:29] <Shiv> That is fine. [03:56:15] <richlowe> and I avoid DE on the basis that I don't intend to run anything I can't guarantee being able to pull matching sources for. [03:56:45] <richlowe> if it's unclear whether it will be 100% debuggable, it's not worth touching. [03:56:52] <Shiv> Since you mentioned the entire system+tools, I included SX. I am still trying to understand the philosophy of CBE :). CBE=SXCE+SUNWspro+SUNWonbld+closed-bits [03:57:04] <wesolows> It might help if you explained the actual reason you care - the CBE isn't normally a controversial thing; it just means Use This Compiler and make sure you're not building on older than N-2. [03:57:27] <wesolows> You're overstating the important of the CBE, or its cohesiveness as an entity. [03:57:32] <wesolows> *importance [03:58:05] <wesolows> You asked philosophical questions about it, and I have philosophical answers. From a practical perspective, it means what I just described. [03:58:43] <victori_> just curious any advantages to zones over freebsd jails? [03:58:53] <victori_> or it is pretty much the same thin [03:58:56] <victori_> thing* [03:58:57] <wesolows> The JDS guys call something totally unrelated the CBE, probably because they heard the term and didn't understand what it really meant. [03:59:05] <wesolows> victori_: It's significantly different. [03:59:25] <victori_> from a quick glance seems like the same thing [03:59:27] <wesolows> victori_: There are a lot of tools for building, configuring, and managing zones that are much richer than what jails gives you. [03:59:32] <victori_> chroot+networking+dev support [03:59:34] <wesolows> And we now have IP instances as well. [03:59:45] <wesolows> It's not a chroot. [03:59:48] <victori_> wesolows: ezjail fixes all that [03:59:55] <victori_> ip instances? [04:00:14] <victori_> as in have a dedicated ip? [04:00:19] <wesolows> no [04:00:22] <wesolows> IP stack instances [04:00:34] <wesolows> think virtual routers [04:00:48] <Shiv> wesolows: JDS CBE is a set of tools they need to build [04:00:54] <victori_> I wish this was a bit more documented for the layman to compare jail to zone [04:01:01] <wesolows> Shiv: It's part of a BE, but it's not the CBE. [04:01:22] <Shiv> wesolows: Who decides what should be common? [04:01:27] <wesolows> The CBE is what I just described. What JDS calls the CBE is a bunch of stuff similar to onbld, but they don't consider it part of the gate. [04:01:30] <wesolows> the W-Team [04:01:57] <Shiv> wesolows: What is "W-"? [04:02:02] <wesolows> WOS [04:02:26] <Tempt> Is that an A-Team as well? [04:02:34] <wesolows> I know of no A-Team [04:02:41] <wesolows> C, I, P, and W for sure [04:03:06] <wesolows> Hell, we don't even have a B-Team :-) [04:03:11] <richlowe> Tempt: we don't have time for jibba jabba! [04:03:40] <Tempt> heh. [04:04:04] <eboutilier> Shiv: It's fine to call it the JDS CBE [04:04:17] <Shiv> If a term becomes popular, it just gets used as an regular term..... [04:04:27] *** Cass has left #opensolaris [04:04:41] <Shiv> The expansion loses its significance, but ppl map to the meaning... [04:04:57] <Shiv> CBE I believe ppl map to build envs [04:04:58] <eboutilier> In the Solaris inner-circle CBE has meant a certain thing for a long time. So just put JDS in front of CBE and that's fine. [04:05:04] <wesolows> no one outside the JDS team uses CBE that way [04:05:20] <wesolows> Everyone else, and I do mean everyone, means the compilers. [04:05:22] <Shiv> (Atleast outside sun) [04:05:23] <eboutilier> wesolows: I do [04:05:35] <wesolows> That's because you're aligned with the JDS faction. [04:05:40] <eboutilier> faction? [04:05:46] <richlowe> hah. [04:05:52] <eboutilier> :-) [04:05:54] <Shiv> (Outside sun, CBE means build env for all bits in *that* consolidation) [04:05:57] <Tempt> faction? [04:06:01] <richlowe> Shiv: the C is Common [04:06:02] <Tempt> Insane [04:06:09] <richlowe> what's in common with if it's specific to a single consolidation? [04:06:13] <Tempt> Perhaps a little chillout time is warranted. [04:06:14] <richlowe> self-referential commonality is meaningless. [04:06:22] <wesolows> Much like in real wars, the different branches of the service often hate one another more than the nominal enemy. [04:06:30] <eboutilier> faction: what you get when you divide two numbes. [04:07:15] <wesolows> I hate JDS much more than I hate Red Hat or IBM or whoever else people think of as our competitors. [04:07:15] <Gman> quite frankly, who gives a fuck what it's called. the world moves on and we all get to build our software and go home. [04:07:18] <eboutilier> wesolows: You're kidding, right? [04:07:25] <eboutilier> +1 [04:07:30] <eboutilier> gman [04:07:30] <wesolows> eboutilier: Not really. I think JDS is slowly killing Solaris. [04:07:39] <eboutilier> Oy. [04:07:39] <Shiv> +1 [04:07:40] <eboutilier> bye [04:08:11] <richlowe> Gman: switch the Common to Uncommon, and be done. [04:08:22] <wesolows> We care what things are called because we need to communicate effectively. You don't get to appropriate a word that everyone else understands to mean a certain thing and start using it to mean something different. [04:08:53] <wesolows> Then go tell a bunch of non-Sun volunteers and community members that it means your thing. [04:09:02] <Gman> i'd start by communicating effectively within your consolidation, then worry about the rest ;) [04:09:15] <richlowe> That, too. [04:09:17] <wesolows> And expect to have the meaning changed just because you've told a larger number of people the wrong definition. [04:09:22] <wesolows> "My" consolidation? [04:09:30] <wesolows> I'm not a C-team member. [04:10:02] *** alobbs has quit IRC [04:10:08] <richlowe> can we just accept that we all suck, and then get drunk? [04:10:13] <richlowe> it seems the obvious solution. [04:10:15] <jbk> +1 [04:10:16] <Shiv> wesolows: There are way too many things on os.o that seem to become clear only after more internal info comes out. [04:10:16] *** halton has joined #opensolaris [04:10:23] <wesolows> richlowe: Hit the nail right on the head there. :-) [04:10:24] *** alobbs has joined #opensolaris [04:10:37] * Gman fine with that and wanders off [04:10:55] <wesolows> Shiv: Agreed completely. I spent 6 months writing the Developer's Reference. I know it's not complete, but I hoped others would add to it. [04:10:59] <Shiv> wesolows: Without putting it up on os.o, if ppl non-sun ppl use it in an unexpected way, cant be helped [04:11:20] <wesolows> File a bug then "Add 'CBE' to developer's reference" [04:11:29] <wesolows> there's glossary there...this should be in it [04:11:56] <Shiv> I didn't even realise some of the things till now. It already conveyed/meant something !? [04:12:28] *** jafari has quit IRC [04:12:31] *** diomac has joined #opensolaris [04:12:37] <wesolows> If I knew where the canonical copy lived now, I'd add it myself in the 5 minutes before pub time. [04:12:38] <Shiv> It belongs to the "I dont know" and "dont know that I dont know" part [04:12:45] <wesolows> The Unknown Unknowns :-) [04:12:49] <diomac> anyone know what belenix is using to mount ntfs? [04:13:08] <richlowe> wesolows: docs community. [04:13:14] <richlowe> that's where it should be, at least. [04:13:24] * Shiv time for me to leave [04:13:48] *** Sup3rkiddo has quit IRC [04:14:31] *** Shiv has left #opensolaris [04:25:08] *** nachox has joined #opensolaris [04:25:24] <eboutilier> diomac: There's a writeup here: http://www.genunix.org/distributions/belenix_site/binfiles/README.FSWfsmisc.txt [04:25:46] <eboutilier> (Careful though, rumor has it that mouting NTFS on BeleniX is slowly killing Solaris.) [04:26:07] * wesolows fails to understand the jab [04:26:37] <wesolows> I'm happy to see other distributors adding stuff on that they think their customers will like. [04:26:39] <diomac> well I only really wanna do it once to pull off some data... thanks for the info [04:27:25] <eboutilier> I thought random silly statements was today's theme. Sorry. [04:27:33] <eboutilier> diomac: I was just kidding. [04:28:09] <diomac> lol [04:28:54] *** johnlev has joined #opensolaris [04:29:59] <Tempt> alright, biosdev hack in place, LU attempt #2 [04:35:08] <Triskelios> diomac: FSWfsmisc (and optionally FSWpart) are the packages, they can be installed in S10 or SX [04:36:20] *** Vorbis_w has quit IRC [04:37:00] *** sioraiocht has joined #opensolaris [04:39:17] *** Sieghard_ has quit IRC [04:39:29] *** Sieghard has joined #opensolaris [04:40:26] *** linux_user400354 has quit IRC [04:43:02] <FireflyST> Triskelios: Hi there [04:43:24] <FireflyST> Triskelios: Any word on that driver? [04:54:59] *** badcoder has joined #opensolaris [04:56:04] <badcoder> sco openserver has a package manager like pkg-get ? [04:57:05] <jamesd> ask sco... how in the hell would we know... does this look like #sco or #lawsuit_of_the_week [04:57:32] <badcoder> hahaha sco is fucking dead [04:57:47] *** sfire||mouse has joined #opensolaris [04:57:52] *** Vorbis_w has joined #opensolaris [04:58:41] <jamesd> they are not dead yet.. they are still paying a few engineers and sales people [04:59:13] *** Trisk[laptop] has joined #opensolaris [05:00:14] <CIA-24> kz151634: 6596174 AGP support for Intel 3 series, 6596178 965GM/GME should have more graphics modes [05:00:29] <nachox> i wonder if there are enough sco unices arounf there to justify creating an sco to solaris migration plan [05:00:34] <sfire||mouse> boyd: how does mac do it? [05:00:46] <boyd> umm.. do what? [05:00:55] <sfire||mouse> whoa [05:01:11] <sfire||mouse> hehe, was reading the backlog from 90 min ago [05:01:38] <sfire||mouse> Tempt [05:01:38] <sfire||mouse> [05:01:38] <sfire||mouse> mutters something about "Why can't Sun port OpenFirmware to x86 for their hosts?" [05:01:51] <boyd> No OFW on intel macs. EFI [05:01:57] <sfire||mouse> ah [05:02:15] <sfire||mouse> thats what I get for not having a new one :) [05:02:20] <boyd> Heh [05:02:38] <delewis> sfire||mouse: that'd be silly at the moment. [05:02:51] <delewis> any operating that ran on Sun's x64 systems would require a modified operating system. [05:03:08] <delewis> and besides, you're getting the benefits of OBP+ALOM with the management boards that Sun is shipping with the x64 systems. [05:03:30] <jamesd> nachox, i would guess that SCO created an anti-compete clause in its sun/sco contract that gave sun complete rights over unix code. [05:03:36] <sfire||mouse> delewis: yeah my work got a thumper in, those cards are neat [05:04:05] *** Triskelios has quit IRC [05:04:17] <brendang> boyd: mosug photos? online yet? do you know? what you say?!? [05:04:21] <nachox> jamesd, that would mean sun cannot do that, ibm can, specially now [05:04:40] <boyd> brendang: Your brain seems to be broken [05:04:47] *** Trisk[laptop] is now known as Triskelios [05:04:59] <brendang> boyd: quite possibly [05:05:02] <jamesd> ibm could pretty much do anything it wanted the full time.. it has the money and lawyers that say it can. [05:05:07] <boyd> brendang: I think nathan is trying to do something today [05:05:13] <brendang> boyd: cool [05:05:13] * Tempt isn't quite sure what is so exciting about a photo room full of guys yakking about opensolaris [05:05:24] <brendang> boyd: were photos taken of you doing your talk? [05:05:26] <nachox> jamesd, what it didnt have was a supported unix that ran in x86 [05:05:28] <Tempt> to be honest, it just annoys the shit out of me when people start waving cameras around [05:05:34] <boyd> brendang: Umm... at least one, yes [05:05:44] <brendang> boyd: cool [05:05:45] *** npt has joined #opensolaris [05:05:47] <boyd> Tempt: It's an historical record. [05:05:58] <Tempt> evidence that it happened? [05:05:59] <Tempt> :) [05:06:18] <Triskelios> what's the version of NVDAgraphics (the nvidia driver) in SXCE? it's 96xx... [05:06:43] <Tempt> If there's going to be more photos at the next one, I'm going to wear a mask. [05:07:00] <boyd> Are you gonna come as a lolcat? [05:07:11] <Tempt> OH NOES [05:07:13] <Tempt> DOES NOT WANT [05:07:14] <brendang> Tempt: or an offensive shirt [05:07:25] *** unixware has joined #opensolaris [05:07:30] <unixware> ?RE??? [05:07:37] <Tempt> brendang: Or just get pissy about it and not turn up. [05:07:37] <richlowe> wear something anti-sun, so nobody wants to associate you with the meeting :) [05:08:14] <unixware> anti-sun imb or sgi? [05:08:29] <Tempt> Or worse [05:08:30] <richlowe> or a joke shop disguise. [05:08:34] <richlowe> false nose, and big thick glasses. [05:08:37] <Tempt> Wear a "dot in dot com" tshirt [05:08:37] <richlowe> and big plastic eyebrows. [05:08:42] <richlowe> Tempt: hah. [05:08:47] <richlowe> Tempt: *and* a joke shop disguise. [05:08:51] <Tempt> yeah [05:08:59] <Tempt> I'm not sure which one is more embarassing [05:09:07] <Auralis> online condom rental service? :) [05:09:19] <unixware> Auralis :O [05:09:42] <Tempt> hey, comments on this LU annoyance? http://pastebin.ca/694987 [05:09:49] <brendang> Tempt: I knew a guy who, whenever photos were being taken, would keep one hand permanently pointing to his genitals. It ruined every photo, since you couldn't help but notice, which was his goal. :) [05:10:19] <nachox> hehehe [05:10:36] *** BatonT has joined #opensolaris [05:10:39] <Tempt> Heh. I have a no photo policy. [05:10:52] <Tempt> Comes from annoying people with cameras annoying me. [05:11:09] <brendang> he'd also look straight into the camera while pointing... [05:11:28] <boyd> I saw at least one person giving the finger while a photo was taken. [05:11:39] <Tempt> heh [05:11:40] <brendang> that works too [05:11:53] <brendang> since the finger seems more offensive in the US than it does in Aus [05:11:58] <Tempt> A polite "Do you mind if I take photos?" wouldn't have gone astray [05:12:00] <brendang> (they blur out the finger on cable TV) [05:12:24] <boyd> Oh My GOD!!! A finger! I'm so offended... I have my own covered with doilys [05:12:29] <boyd> doilies [05:13:06] <brendang> boyd: a red, white and blue doily [05:13:22] <badcoder> solaris 10/06 is based in what build 35 ? [05:13:23] <boyd> Personally, I'm disgusted if I can see more than the pupils of someone's eyes [05:13:24] <Tempt> C'mon, nobody got a comment on my liveupgrade hassles? [05:13:42] <boyd> Tempt: Yes, it's annoying :) [05:14:06] <boyd> badcoder: No. It's not based on any particular OpenSolaris build [05:14:07] <brendang> Tempt: you have LU hassles? uhh... ask this guy called boyd.. [05:14:24] <Tempt> HA! [05:14:24] <Tempt> :) [05:14:30] <boyd> I was just saying... you talk about something and then you're the go-to guy :) [05:14:51] <sommerfeld> brendang: A lot of things seem to be more offensive outside Aus than inside... [05:14:52] <Tempt> I was going to tell everyone last night if they had any LU questions or problems to jump on #opensolaris and ask boyd, but I thought it would be too mean. [05:14:55] <boyd> I'm glad I didn't discuss world hunger [05:15:01] <brendang> boyd: and your next presentation will be about porting DTrace to Linux. [05:15:10] <Tempt> ooh [05:15:12] <Tempt> that's a fun one [05:15:26] <boyd> sommerfeld: I think it's because we tend to have a generally jocular faux-offensive side to our culture. [05:15:27] <Tempt> I was more amused by the fact that Indiana was voted the least interesting topic [05:15:44] <unixware> ?? [05:16:04] <brendang> funnily enough, I heard that DTrace wasn't the only software to run into stubborn GPL fundamentilists; there was also IceWeasel ! [05:16:14] <Tempt> IceWeasel? [05:16:25] <boyd> brendang: What? What is that in connection with? [05:16:38] <Tempt> ha [05:16:39] <Tempt> GNUzilla [05:16:48] <Tempt> What a load of crap. [05:17:01] <boyd> It's the debian-driven fork of firefox IIRC [05:17:03] <Triskelios> brendang: IceWeasel wasn't GPL/GNU related issue, it was a simple trademark [05:17:10] <richlowe> brendang: that's not licensing, it's trademark. [05:17:10] <sommerfeld> (witness the reaction to the "So where the bloody hell are you?" campaign in the UK and Canada) [05:17:13] <brendang> Debian didn't like the fact the fact that some of firefox was trademarked by mozilla (ie, the icons, and fair enough); so they made a fully GPL'd version. [05:17:41] <brendang> it has some similarities [05:17:44] <Tempt> Translation: Debian choked on their own gnulitical correctness [05:18:00] <Triskelios> brendang: that is incorrect. the Mozilla Foundation does not allow modified Firefox code to carry the trademark [05:18:07] <sommerfeld> trademark law and open source tend to trip over each other [05:18:09] <boyd> sommerfeld: Yes. In Aus vernacular that's *very* tame [05:18:50] <sommerfeld> (it apparently didn't run into difficulty in the US, but "bloody" is apparently considered offensive in the UK) [05:18:59] <richlowe> no it isn't. [05:19:03] <Triskelios> Tempt, brendang: this is not related to the Debian weenies, any other derived package would have the same issues [05:19:04] <richlowe> it's, technically, swearing. [05:19:07] <richlowe> but we all cuss like sailors. [05:19:14] <Tempt> Fuck yes. [05:19:15] <richlowe> you have to *really* try to be offensive to the general populous in the UK [05:19:16] <jbk> yeah, i don't think anyone would even blink at that [05:20:48] <Tempt> ahaha [05:20:51] <Tempt> found my LU problem [05:20:55] <sommerfeld> or, well, considered offensive by advertising regulators according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/So_where_the_bloody_hell_are_you%3F [05:21:08] <boyd> The more obvious sensibility in the US seems to be that there is an aversion to seeing body parts that are still attached, but little aversion to seeing them become detached :) [05:21:20] <jbk> haha yes [05:21:25] <Tempt> actually, no, I haven't. [05:21:26] <sommerfeld> The advertisement has also been banned by regulators in Canada, owing to the implication of "unbranded alcohol consumption" by the opening line, "We've bought you a beer" [05:21:30] <sommerfeld> hahah [05:21:39] <richlowe> sommerfeld: that sounds like tabloid fueled stupid. [05:21:41] <jbk> violence: no problem, show a nipple, you're a pornographer [05:21:42] <richlowe> another british tradition. [05:22:33] <boyd> sommerfeld: WTF? It's ok to drink beer, as long as it's of a particular brand? [05:22:38] <Tempt> Yes [05:22:45] <sommerfeld> I'm just quoting wikipedia [05:22:48] <Tempt> You must declare your brand allegience at every stage [05:22:51] *** ByteEnable has quit IRC [05:22:52] <boyd> Must be true then [05:22:54] <boyd> :) [05:22:59] <Tempt> (quoting wikipedia isn't always a good idea...) [05:23:20] <Tempt> I wonder if the Solaris article still has the lines in it about Solaris being crap because of no good solitaire and poorer screensavers [05:23:27] <boyd> Ah, yes... "hell" is another one I find amusing [05:23:36] <richlowe> boyd: it's only amusing until you have to deal with it. [05:23:48] <jmcp> Tempt: well, I can feel a XXXX coming on [05:23:49] <boyd> To heck with that [05:24:15] <jmcp> boyd: it's better than Melbourne Bitter [05:24:24] <jmcp> or that muck they brew in Adelaide [05:24:32] <jmcp> aka Coopers [05:25:01] *** ACfromTX has joined #opensolaris [05:25:13] <jbk> Tempt: isn't there some sort of 'spoof' wikipedia? [05:25:16] <boyd> And what's that beer they make for foreigners? Oh, yeah.. Fosters [05:25:17] <richlowe> jmcp: you wouldn't give one for anything else, eh? [05:25:33] <jmcp> richlowe: hehe :-) [05:25:51] <jmcp> boyd: made and exported purely for furriners [05:25:52] *** ichigo has quit IRC [05:26:09] <richlowe> jmcp: I still think you guys need to file suit against fosters for their "Australian for beer" slogan. [05:26:14] <richlowe> it's obviously defamotory. [05:26:15] <richlowe> :) [05:26:25] <boyd> :) [05:26:42] <jmcp> yeah, it sure is [05:26:47] <jmcp> but they don't show those ads over here [05:27:08] <sommerfeld> I'd think "Australian for Budweiser" would be more accurate. [05:27:33] <jmcp> that's a town in Austria, isn't it? [05:27:40] <boyd> Heh [05:27:56] <Tempt> well, let's upgrade the other BE anyway [05:27:58] <jmcp> boyd: did you tape/watch the Chaser last night? [05:28:03] <jmcp> http://www.smh.com.au/news/tv--radio/chasers-apec-show-seen-by-22m-viewers/2007/09/13/1189276851804.html [05:28:04] <Tempt> all the fun will happen at activation time [05:28:20] <boyd> jmcp: taped [05:28:26] <boyd> well, DVRed [05:28:37] <jmcp> nod [05:29:06] <sommerfeld> I thought it was somewhere in the Czech republic.. [05:29:16] <jmcp> well, central-ish Europe at any rate [05:29:48] <boyd> jmcp: just clicked... w00t! [05:30:42] <jbk> amusingly there's a large budweiser distributor just down the road from me [05:31:29] <Tempt> oh well [05:31:34] <Tempt> meetings call to waste my day [05:32:24] * boyd wonders how long he will say taped for... [05:33:22] <jmcp> boyd: as long as you refer to a car's mileage..... [05:38:55] *** sommerfeld has quit IRC [05:40:29] <badcoder> what is the best option hw raid or raidz ? [05:41:13] <unixware> 1 [05:41:42] <jmcp> badcoder: that's a naive question to ask [05:41:45] <jmcp> there is no single correct ansewr [05:41:46] <jmcp> answer [05:42:47] <boyd> What's the best tool, screwdriver or pliers? [05:46:05] <ACfromTX> boyd: depends-do you want to lead them somewhere (then pliers to the ear or other sensitive area would prove effective), or do you just want to make your point (although the spurting blood can get messy)... [05:46:10] <richlowe> jmcp: if the CR you mention on tools-discuss is the one I think it is, give me a while to find something and lemme ping you [05:46:18] <jmcp> no, ping me now! [05:46:47] <Chipdancer> oh dear, jmcp has add ;) [05:47:11] *** Triskelios has quit IRC [05:47:42] * jmcp spins around like a ...... something that spins lots [05:48:16] <ACfromTX> .oO(electron?) [05:48:27] <jmcp> ACfromTX: yeah, one of them too [05:48:38] <boyd> Record, baby? [05:48:52] <jmcp> right round round round [05:48:54] <unixware> consolator? [05:49:09] <boyd> Disk? [05:49:28] <Chipdancer> right, I can see that we're all bored this afternoon [05:49:33] <boyd> heh [05:49:38] <unixware> xD [05:50:08] * Chipdancer considers coffee... gotta go out to buy the milk first [05:50:24] <boyd> Milk!? After lunch!? [05:50:31] <unixware> tea and milk [05:50:44] <Chipdancer> l'art'eh ;) [05:51:25] <elektronkind> hmm. Does the kernel contain any reasonable name/value storage facility, a la nvlist in userland? [05:51:34] <jmcp> boyd: chip's pretty good with latte art [05:51:59] <jmcp> elektronkind: yes, usr/include/sys/nvpair.h and friends [05:52:10] <elektronkind> it's in the kernel? cool! [05:52:12] <boyd> Cool... I'll have a long macchiato, pls. [05:52:27] <Chipdancer> boyd: I don't hear knocking at my door ;) [05:52:34] <Chipdancer> (works for jmcp) [05:52:54] <boyd> email it to me [05:53:00] <moazamraja> cafe con leche to the rescue. [05:53:04] <Chipdancer> hehe [05:53:11] <moazamraja> (which i believe is the same as a cafe au lait?) [05:53:28] <moazamraja> but i swear it tastes different when I order it in Miami as 'cafe con leche' [05:53:35] <jmcp> moazamraja: we left our lechers elsewhere [05:54:15] <Chipdancer> jmcp: down in Sydney, yah? [05:54:15] <unixware> milk is for kids [05:54:28] <Chipdancer> unixware: depends on the time of day [05:54:37] <unixware> :P [05:54:41] <Chipdancer> it's hard at home to always have beans fresh enough for short blacks [05:54:49] <jmcp> Chipdancer: lechers? yeah [05:55:04] *** sfire||mouse has quit IRC [05:55:05] <Chipdancer> jmcp: did you get to try some of the Hawaiian Kona I had? [05:55:16] <unixware> ???????????? ? ?????????? [05:55:31] <jmcp> Chipdancer: nope [05:55:37] <Chipdancer> crap, can't translate Cyrillic fonts :( [05:55:54] *** eboutilier has quit IRC [05:57:52] <victori_> what is the top alternative in solaris? [05:57:58] <moazamraja> prstat [05:58:00] <unixware> http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/09/12/russia.bomb.ap/ [05:58:03] <victori_> thanks [05:58:29] <boyd> Chipdancer: I can see the font, I can't read the workd though :) [05:58:40] <Chipdancer> boyd: that's what I meant [06:02:35] *** nachox has quit IRC [06:03:10] *** badcoder has quit IRC [06:13:00] *** unixware has quit IRC [06:13:00] *** laca has quit IRC [06:15:07] *** slowhog has left #opensolaris [06:17:58] <axisys> anyone can suggest how to improve performance of pca report? [06:18:45] <axisys> pca --xrefdir=/var/tmp -y -f myhost_ -L takes about 10 secs [06:19:12] <axisys> i wonder if it can be made faster [06:19:18] <axisys> it is written in perl [06:20:03] <axisys> the report server is a 500Mhz 1G Netra T1 [06:21:18] *** sfire||mouse has joined #opensolaris [06:22:58] *** helpmehome has quit IRC [06:25:41] *** Vorbis_w11 has joined #opensolaris [06:26:21] *** helpmehome has joined #opensolaris [06:31:24] *** Vorbis_w has quit IRC [06:33:09] <flyingparchment> can i use Cluster with any iscsi array, or are only certain ones certified? [06:33:16] <flyingparchment> (only for testing, not production) [06:33:45] *** medar has quit IRC [06:33:48] *** medar has joined #opensolaris [06:34:28] *** balbir has joined #opensolaris [06:36:10] *** johnlev has quit IRC [06:36:17] <tsp> I'm not sure if anyone's interested, but I whipped up a program to adjust the playback gain on an audio device: http://tspivey.freeshell.org/audioset.c [06:40:04] <elektronkind> flyingparchment: the array does need to support SCSI reservations [06:40:21] <elektronkind> well, whatever is serving your iSCSI targets needs to support that [06:41:10] <elektronkind> aka SCSI-3 PGR [06:42:15] <flyingparchment> does the solaris iscsi target support that? maybe that'd be easier.. [06:43:21] <elektronkind> flyingparchment: PGR supposrt was added just a few weeks ago... it's either in b72 or will be in b73 is my best guess... but PGR is in the code repository now [06:43:27] <flyingparchment> ah [06:43:37] <victori_> how would you assign an ip to a zone [06:43:40] <brendang> tsp: http://blogs.sun.com/brendan/entry/audio_volume_cli -- and I saw one by Tim Cook that was even better. [06:43:45] <victori_> i got past zonecfg/zoneadm install [06:43:51] <flyingparchment> victori_: 'add net' from within zonecfg [06:43:56] <elektronkind> it was one of the blockers regarding Sun Cluster support for Solaris's iscsitgtd [06:43:57] <victori_> ah thanks [06:44:21] <flyingparchment> elektronkind: so 72/73 would be able to support cluster? or are there remaining issues still? [06:44:53] <diomac> bugger sound driver is missing.. [06:45:16] <elektronkind> that was the big issue as far as sun cluster storage + iscsi were concerned. [06:46:13] <elektronkind> see this: [06:46:13] <elektronkind> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-2969/6n57kl13o?a=view#caccajda [06:46:35] <elektronkind> specifically, the section titled "Failfast Mechanism for Failure Fencing [06:47:18] <elektronkind> man... "Failfast Mechanism for Failure Fencing [06:47:27] <elektronkind> say that five times fast [06:48:01] <elektronkind> hmm [06:48:48] <elektronkind> "Roland codes korn shells by the sea shore" [06:49:14] <elektronkind> nah, doesn't quite work [06:51:54] <Tempt> You don't need SCSI-3 PGRs to support a 2 node cluster [06:51:57] <Tempt> SC will fake it out [06:52:11] <tsp> I"m just surprised that noone has written a command line mixer before now [06:52:48] <boyd> Yes, it falls back on SCSI2 resv + software support (PGRE) [06:52:51] *** medar_ has joined #opensolaris [06:52:53] <Tempt> Exactly. [06:53:21] <elektronkind> Tempt: then how does SC prevent unwanted parties from crabbing the quorum out of turn? [06:53:22] <elektronkind> ah [06:53:56] <Tempt> It stands on tiptoes [06:54:01] <Tempt> and holds the device above it's head [06:54:08] <Tempt> and shouts nyer-nyer you-can't-reach-this [06:54:28] <boyd> ... and then gets punched in the guts [06:59:52] *** johnlev has joined #opensolaris [07:01:58] <brendang> johnlev: G'Day, I wrote a bunch of DTrace python scripts for the next DTraceToolkit rev... [07:02:08] <johnlev> brendang: neat. [07:02:30] <johnlev> I'll take a look... [07:02:33] <brendang> johnlev: I'm hoping to inclease awareness and encouare people to use the provider [07:03:02] <brendang> johnlev: I haven't posted them yet, but I will soon. updating manpages and whatnot. [07:03:20] <brendang> johnlev: do you know which Solaris 10 update the python provider appeared in? [07:03:31] <richlowe> I would expect "none of them" [07:03:56] <johnlev> me too, JDS isn't touched in S10 right? [07:03:59] <richlowe> no. [07:04:01] <johnlev> and they deliver python [07:04:08] <richlowe> it's not touched in Nevada, why the hell would they fix stuff in 10? [07:04:29] <tsp> hmm, anyone willing to take over my mixer hack and turn it into something useful? I'm not sure where I can take it from here [07:04:34] <brendang> ahh - I assumeb build 65 bits had been released, maybe too soon, or wrong package set? [07:04:51] *** medar has quit IRC [07:05:05] <richlowe> eh? [07:05:44] *** ACfromTX has quit IRC [07:05:49] <brendang> the python provider appeared on my workstation build (recent nevada), so I assumed it had made it into sol 10 at some point. [07:05:56] *** ACfromTX has joined #opensolaris [07:06:09] <richlowe> That logic seems backwards. [07:06:23] <boyd> yes, it does [07:06:30] <richlowe> or a subtle, yet awesome, dig at the backport-rate. [07:06:35] <richlowe> in which case, I take all that back, and owe you a beer. [07:06:42] <boyd> Heh [07:06:53] <boyd> wither solaris 11? [07:07:00] <brendang> when I say appeared, I mean it was there when I looked. I don't know how many months it had been there. [07:07:01] *** LoBoX has quit IRC [07:07:27] <brendang> if it had been on my workstation builds for, say, 6 months - then I'd guess there was a chance it had made it into sol 10 too. [07:07:37] <johnlev> brendang: I got laca to integrate into nevada. no backport is planned. [07:07:48] <johnlev> JDS doesn't get backported... [07:07:49] <brendang> ahh, ok [07:08:46] <brendang> johnlev: so what would be the best way that future sol 10 users get the provider? [07:09:07] <jbk> upgrade to sol 11 when it's released? :) [07:09:38] <brendang> ok, fair enough. :) or someone might be nice and make packages available on opensolaris.org... :) [07:09:51] <flyingparchment> i don't think solaris 11 will ever be released [07:10:01] <flyingparchment> in 10 years we'll be using Solaris 10 Update 25 [07:10:02] *** LoBoX has joined #opensolaris [07:10:05] <johnlev> brendang: well. I can do that for the next update if you're willing to actually try them with S10 [07:10:14] <g4lt-sb100> in the sunwindows announcement, they gave a sol11 timetable [07:10:29] <johnlev> brendang: I'm not sure how tight the link between python version and the rest of S10 is. I suspect the answer is "too tight" but we'll see [07:10:52] <johnlev> we also have some dtrace backporting needed for it. [07:10:57] <johnlev> I think [07:11:45] <jbk> it seems a bit inconsistent [07:11:48] <boyd> g4lt-sb100: they did? [07:12:11] <jbk> there's a dtrace/plockstat bug that (at least with oracle) causes plockstat to cease functioning [07:12:28] <jbk> that sun pretty much said 'we will NOT backport the fix' [07:12:44] <brendang> johnlev: well, I now have 14 python dtrace scripts to testing with. I'm not often on versions of sol 10 though. [07:12:54] <johnlev> me neither. [07:16:16] *** sfire||mouse has quit IRC [07:22:03] *** elektronkind has quit IRC [07:26:10] *** Gekkko has joined #opensolaris [07:30:27] <flyingparchment> is 'convosync=direct' equivalent to UFS directio? [07:33:44] <flyingparchment> "For example it is possible to place metadata on mirrored storage while placing file data on better performing volume types such as RAID5." [07:33:45] *** Gekkko has quit IRC [07:33:52] <flyingparchment> huh? since when is raid5 faster than raid1? [07:34:41] *** diomac has quit IRC [07:35:33] <jmcp> flyingparchment: when you're only reading [07:36:47] <libkeiser> and in certain cases where xor overhead isn't your bottleneck and you're writing large enough chunks that read before write isn't necessary [07:45:59] *** estibi_ has quit IRC [08:00:15] <CIA-24> jl139090: PSARC 2007/337 OPL Jupiter CPU Support, PSARC 2007/433 Integer Multiply-Add instruction set feature, PSARC 2007/506 FMA for OPL Jupiter CPU, 6551253 OPL Jupiter CPU support [08:00:37] <flyingparchment> Jupiter? [08:00:52] <jmcp> yeah, I think we've already used Saturn and Mercury [08:01:03] <flyingparchment> is that one of the new niagaras or something else? [08:01:14] <jmcp> nope, sparc64-vii I believe [08:01:18] <flyingparchment> ah [08:01:19] <jmcp> there's a headsup coming along [08:01:26] <jmcp> Fujitsu big iron [08:03:32] <richlowe> jmcp: yes. [08:12:42] *** Dar_HOME is now known as Dar [08:13:00] *** dlynes_laptop has joined #opensolaris [08:13:41] *** BatonT has quit IRC [08:15:23] <Tempt> Mmm [08:15:24] <Tempt> big iron [08:15:25] <Tempt> Mmmmmm [08:15:27] <Tempt> gimmeh [08:16:05] <quasi> fujitsu isn't as much fun [08:16:46] <Tempt> is this my cue to offer to swap your mx000 series boxes for US-III boxes? [08:16:47] <Tempt> :) [08:17:50] *** BatonT has joined #opensolaris [08:18:08] *** jamesd has quit IRC [08:18:56] *** dunc has quit IRC [08:22:41] *** Gekkko has joined #opensolaris [08:22:56] *** trede has joined #opensolaris [08:30:50] *** medar has joined #opensolaris [08:30:51] *** medar_ has quit IRC [08:33:53] <quasi> I don't have any mx000s [08:34:33] <quasi> or rather, the one we have is somewhere in india on the other end of a very slow connection [08:35:32] <quasi> I've had primepower in another job - not much fun in those [08:36:09] *** ACfromTX has quit IRC [08:36:21] *** ACfromTX has joined #opensolaris [08:38:38] *** Gekkko is now known as grrkin [08:38:45] *** grrkin is now known as Gekkko [08:40:11] <e^ipi> damn, i'm starting to get some sexy looking shots out of this espresso machine [08:40:24] <WickedWicky> morning [08:40:43] <WickedWicky> erotic tasting, sexy looking? [08:40:49] <boyd> e^ipi: http://www.espressoporn.com/ [08:41:24] <richlowe> lucky, that's far less terrifying than I was expecting. [08:41:25] *** lloy0076 has joined #opensolaris [08:41:34] <boyd> Hehe [08:42:12] <Gman> e^ipi, sexy looking and tasty? [08:42:27] * Gman often finds sexy looking is easy, tasty, much harder [08:43:04] <WickedWicky> true that [08:43:09] <e^ipi> Gman: yeah, they taste decent [08:44:12] *** Andy_Pease has joined #opensolaris [08:44:29] <tsp> the biggest iron I've used is a dual P3 box with 896mb of ram :) [08:45:51] *** andy_ has quit IRC [08:45:56] <e^ipi> not fantastic, but i'm at least getting some strong, properly striped crema [08:47:26] <Tempt> tsp: That's not iron, that's tin. [08:48:42] *** tsoome has quit IRC [08:48:48] <Bartman007> Tempt: I'm not sure if a dualie p3 would fit well on my head. [08:49:03] <Tempt> with enough panelbeating [08:49:16] <Tempt> (of the head, of course!) [08:49:37] <e^ipi> I have a dual p3 with about that much ram sitting on my junk pile [08:49:50] <e^ipi> I think it's still got UnixWare on it [08:50:01] <WickedWicky> is this hear saying or you know this first hand? [08:50:08] <WickedWicky> (to the panelbeating) [08:50:21] <Tempt> Only experimental proof can be considered conclusive [08:50:32] <WickedWicky> I'm game [08:50:46] * Bartman007 hands Tempt a hammer [08:50:51] <Tempt> to have your head re-shaped? [08:50:56] <Tempt> braaave man. [08:51:40] <tsp> lol, on your junk pile? to me, that's a dream box [08:51:47] <tsp> unfortunately mine sucks up too much power [08:53:00] <WickedWicky> Tempt: I'm 28, try before you die and all [08:53:06] <WickedWicky> I still have a to-try list :P [08:53:25] <tsp> anyone know how to set the priority on zfs compression? if I set it to gzip-9, my CPU locks up for several seconds at a time while it compresses [08:56:36] *** Cyrille has joined #opensolaris [09:00:21] *** program has joined #opensolaris [09:03:54] *** mikefut has joined #opensolaris [09:08:35] <e^ipi> so... don't do that? [09:11:24] <e^ipi> tsp: how can that be described as a dream box? [09:11:51] <e^ipi> it's a pile of old crap that's since been replaced by much faster chips [09:12:05] <e^ipi> & gigs of ram [09:13:54] *** estibi_ has joined #opensolaris [09:14:03] *** estibi_ is now known as estibi [09:14:07] *** nostoi has joined #opensolaris [09:14:14] *** cydork has joined #opensolaris [09:18:37] <WickedWicky> it's the nostalgic value that makes it a dream box [09:19:37] <e^ipi> what nostalgic value? [09:19:43] * flyingparchment wonders why vx 5.0 is not available on x86 [09:19:44] <e^ipi> it's just old junk [09:20:01] <e^ipi> nostalgia is something like a C64, or a vax11 or pdp-11 or something [09:20:22] <WickedWicky> old junk can still be cool, IMO [09:22:07] <e^ipi> not saying it can't, but if it's just a slower version of stuff you can get off the shelf today, it's boring [09:22:18] *** lloy0076 has left #opensolaris [09:23:57] *** Erwann has joined #opensolaris [09:23:58] <WickedWicky> everyone his own likings of course, I am not saying a 150Mhz / 128MB ram machine is a dreambox, but I do find it interesting to see that hardware that most people consider as brick/obsolete/whatever still performes very well and therefor still could be used by companies/people with low/no budget [09:25:55] <WickedWicky> I'm actually making a point out of trying to run certain apps/services on those low-end machines, just to prove it works, and well [09:25:58] <e^ipi> ultimately, if you're looking at junk of that crap-itude, you may as well save some money on electricity and get a gumstix or equivalent [09:26:12] <e^ipi> they're only ~ $100 [09:26:24] <WickedWicky> my Sparcstation 20 was 5 euro [09:26:27] <WickedWicky> my ultra 5 for free [09:26:30] <WickedWicky> cantbeat that [09:26:59] <WickedWicky> my athlon 4400+ motherboard, 2GB of RAM + CPU was 300 :P [09:27:16] <WickedWicky> which is fairly cheap considering what i paid 2 years ago for my Athlon 2400XP+ [09:27:21] <jmcp> WickedWicky: if somebody pays you to take it, that beats free :-) [09:27:23] <Tempt> e^ipi: gumstix look like a good idea, but they suck [09:27:41] <WickedWicky> e^ipi: I am not making more out of this old hardware than what it is [09:27:43] <WickedWicky> it is old [09:27:45] <Tempt> v880, 8 cpus, 20Gb RAM, 4 x 750Gb, 6 x 146Gb, 4 x 50Gb, 2 x 72Gb [09:27:46] <WickedWicky> and it is obsolete [09:27:49] <Tempt> That's a real machine. [09:27:50] <e^ipi> Tempt: how so? [09:27:55] <WickedWicky> but that doesnt make it unuseable [09:28:00] <e^ipi> i mean about gumstix, not about your 880 [09:28:03] <Tempt> e^ipi: The linux toolchain they provide sucks. [09:28:20] <e^ipi> can't you jettison linux in favour of a better kernel? [09:28:55] <Tempt> Nope [09:29:00] <e^ipi> oh [09:29:01] <Tempt> Nobody has anything else working [09:29:03] <e^ipi> well, that sucks then [09:29:05] <Tempt> There's a barely function BSD [09:29:12] <Tempt> (the network is broken) [09:29:13] <Tempt> and ... [09:29:14] <Tempt> linux [09:29:41] <Tempt> I bought gumstix for a purely decorative project idea, and basically shelved it because I couldn't get even the base kernel to compile reliably [09:29:57] <Tempt> And the response from gumstix support was "you've got the source, mate, you fix it." [09:30:18] <flyingparchment> open source: you get to keep both pieces [09:30:31] <Tempt> Pretty much [09:30:56] <Tempt> Apparently the support every linux distro as a build host except red hat, slackware, ubuntu, debian, mandriva, suse, and derivatives ;) [09:31:11] <Tempt> and definately no gentoo [09:31:29] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris [09:32:24] <Tempt> anyway, 5:30, I'm heading off for the day. [09:32:51] <WickedWicky> take care [09:35:10] *** tsoome has quit IRC [09:35:53] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris [09:36:05] *** tsoome has quit IRC [09:36:43] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris [09:42:43] *** medar has quit IRC [09:45:45] *** medar has joined #opensolaris [09:51:00] <flyingparchment> heh, veritas docs has those forms where you write down a checklist of things for the install [09:51:06] <flyingparchment> haven't seen that for quite a while [09:52:33] *** estibi has left #opensolaris [09:52:40] <Doomshammer> EMC's Customer ClariionPG and such tools provide such lists as well ;-) [09:53:07] *** bengtf has quit IRC [09:58:42] *** bengtf_ has quit IRC [10:00:12] *** dmarker has quit IRC [10:00:23] *** dmarker has joined #opensolaris [10:13:13] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris [10:13:38] *** bunker has joined #opensolaris [10:13:42] *** tsoome has quit IRC [10:14:01] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris [10:18:05] *** nostoi has quit IRC [10:19:38] *** peteh has joined #opensolaris [10:19:58] * jmcp dines [10:28:19] * quasi caffeinates [10:32:26] * WickedWicky too [10:32:31] <WickedWicky> nice [10:32:32] <WickedWicky> 10:32 [10:32:39] <WickedWicky> and sexual education on tv [10:32:40] <flyingparchment> mmmh, awesome 10K/s speed from sdlc [10:32:41] <WickedWicky> lesbian [10:33:00] <WickedWicky> I remember my SchoolTV times, you learnt how plants grew and all [10:33:31] <flyingparchment> (which seems excessively slow as the server is only 1.5ms away..) [10:33:52] <Tempt> boyd: ping [10:33:59] <WickedWicky> sun download is weird [10:34:04] <WickedWicky> from home I get 2MBP/s [10:34:08] <Tempt> found out why machine didn't come up after LU [10:34:09] <WickedWicky> from the office a blasting 15K/s [10:34:20] <Tempt> it was waiting at a menu to select keyboard layout [10:34:25] <Tempt> FFS. [10:34:28] <WickedWicky> nice [10:34:38] <Tempt> oh, charming [10:34:49] <WickedWicky> Ok, let's install Sol10u4 x86 on this DL380 [10:34:54] * WickedWicky is gonna have fun today [10:35:01] <flyingparchment> heh, i'm about to install on a dl145 [10:35:05] <flyingparchment> if it ever downloads :) [10:35:06] <WickedWicky> \o/ [10:35:29] <Tempt> haha, give it another week [10:35:31] <WickedWicky> I got myself a test MSA1500 with MSA20 to test this improvement plan [10:36:21] <flyingparchment> WickedWicky: how do you like the MSA stuff? i was looking at it earlier.. [10:37:04] <WickedWicky> it's okay when you don't need high I/O performance [10:37:19] <WickedWicky> we use it as storage solution and have the DL380 as NFS gateway [10:37:42] <WickedWicky> we're getting 200MB/s with the current implementation (which sucks) [10:38:30] *** timsf has joined #opensolaris [10:39:23] <timsf> morning everyone [10:39:26] <flyingparchment> looking like it's going to be quicker to download it to another system and copy it over [10:39:51] <tsp> WickedWicky: 200 mb/s? that's fast [10:41:04] <flyingparchment> infortrend claims 700MB/s raid5 write with this device, but i'm wondering how much acid was involved in creating that figure :) [10:41:11] <WickedWicky> sucking is the implementation [10:41:33] <Tempt> 200mb/sec is awful on 10gig-e ;) [10:41:52] <WickedWicky> LVM2 over RAID0 (8 stripes, every stripe is a msa20) over RAID6 (every D20 has RAID6) [10:42:15] *** nostoi has joined #opensolaris [10:42:18] <tsp> ah, 10gig [10:42:30] <tsp> in that case it would suck [10:42:37] <WickedWicky> erm [10:42:44] <WickedWicky> 200MB/s is local write [10:43:07] <tsp> anything beats a mac netbooting off 10mbit though [10:43:33] <Tempt> netbooting off wireless, that'd suck more [10:43:37] <Tempt> or serial/ppp [10:44:22] <tsp> netbooting off wireless would be faster [10:44:28] <tsp> 54G that is [10:44:29] <Tempt> Ha [10:44:38] <Tempt> What speed do you think you really get with "54g" [10:44:50] <tsp> hmm, maybe 3-4 mb/s, megabytes that is [10:45:06] <tsp> assuming your right next to the router [10:49:00] <Tempt> on a good day [10:49:08] <Tempt> if nobody in the world near you has a 2.4ghz device [10:50:21] <tsp> of course when someone turns on their microwave it all goes to hell :) [11:06:21] <mikefut> Hello [11:07:03] <mikefut> Just put new drive into the server, but format < /dev/null doesn't show it - how can I ask kernel to rescan devices? [11:07:37] <Stric> devfsadm -v [11:07:45] <tsp> mikefut: devfsadm might work [11:09:40] <Tpenta> !seen gman [11:09:43] <mikefut> thanks guys - looks like it help :P [11:09:46] <mikefut> :) [11:10:08] <tsp> np [11:13:47] *** migi has joined #opensolaris [11:14:50] *** Snake007uk has joined #opensolaris [11:16:02] <timsf> Hey folks, anyone know if the Melbourne OpenSolaris user group has a homepage - I'm updating the talks & presentations page [11:16:16] <timsf> (which I've been extremely lax about updating of late :-/ [11:18:33] <Tempt> timsf: Nope. [11:18:47] <Tempt> timsf: No info yet, the only web postings so far are on www2.purplecow.org and boyd's blog [11:19:07] <timsf> Alright - I'll point the MOSUG link to the purple cow announcement entry then so [11:19:31] <timsf> s/MOSUG/MSOSUG/ [11:19:37] <Tempt> hang on one sec [11:19:39] <timsf> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/advocacy/os-presentations/ [11:19:45] <timsf> Oh, sure.. [11:19:58] <Tempt> I'll tag the posts with a category [11:20:04] <Tempt> and then just link to the category feed [11:20:07] <timsf> Perfect [11:21:05] <Tempt> so link to http://www2.purplecow.org/?cat=16 [11:21:28] <Tempt> I'll be posting a detailed writeup later tonight [11:22:11] *** simford has quit IRC [11:22:14] <timsf> Grand - how's that look (says he "Waiting for www.opensolaris.org...@ [11:22:15] <timsf> ") [11:22:39] <timsf> slow network, hang on [11:23:51] <Tempt> alright, off to be socialable [11:23:54] <Tempt> sociable, anyway [11:24:00] <Tempt> catch you all a bit later [11:24:01] <timsf> okay, that's there now - cheerio [11:24:42] *** yongsun has quit IRC [11:25:26] <sickness> socialcable [11:25:37] <sickness> :p [11:37:18] *** Gekkko has quit IRC [11:42:02] <Berny> morning [11:46:49] *** Gekkko has joined #opensolaris [11:46:52] *** halton has left #opensolaris [11:59:38] <flyingparchment> 11AM, beer time :) [11:59:45] <sponix> boyd: just read your MSOSUG slides, good stuff man [12:03:07] <BadKarma> ;/n [12:03:54] *** Gekkko is now known as grrkin [12:03:56] <boyd> sponix: Thanks [12:03:57] *** grrkin is now known as Gekkko [12:12:22] *** NikolaVeber has joined #opensolaris [12:19:11] *** Fish has joined #opensolaris [12:19:41] *** dlg has joined #opensolaris [12:19:58] <Fish> hello [12:22:23] <BadKarma> hi Fish [12:22:44] *** nostoi has quit IRC [12:33:44] *** sibikos has joined #opensolaris [12:38:02] *** triplah_ has joined #opensolaris [12:39:42] *** jamesd has joined #opensolaris [12:39:42] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jamesd [12:42:13] *** Cass has joined #opensolaris [12:57:08] *** derchris has quit IRC [12:57:28] *** derchris has joined #opensolaris [13:02:20] *** sfire||mouse has joined #opensolaris [13:07:41] *** deather_ has joined #opensolaris [13:11:29] *** sfire||mouse has quit IRC [13:11:58] *** bengtf has quit IRC [13:13:15] *** deather has quit IRC [13:13:16] *** deather_ is now known as deather [13:15:06] *** sfire||mouse has joined #opensolaris [13:15:47] *** Kev3 has joined #opensolaris [13:18:22] *** sfire||mouse has quit IRC [13:22:55] *** Gekkko has quit IRC [13:24:52] *** Gekkko has joined #opensolaris [13:33:19] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris [13:34:12] *** Gekkko has quit IRC [13:37:03] *** Kev3 has quit IRC [13:44:09] *** Gropi has joined #opensolaris [13:44:19] *** triplah_ has quit IRC [13:44:50] *** Gekkko has joined #opensolaris [13:46:29] *** Sup3rkiddo has joined #opensolaris [14:01:07] *** Gman has quit IRC [14:04:47] *** mikefut has quit IRC [14:06:10] <flyingparchment> heh, sales rep at infortrend is called "Scott McNeil" [14:06:14] <flyingparchment> wonder if there's any relation ;-) [14:07:31] <Cyrille> with different last names I'd doubt it ;-) [14:08:26] *** npt has quit IRC [14:10:11] *** Gekkko has quit IRC [14:10:37] *** ACfromTX has left #opensolaris [14:12:10] <Tiger^> veni, vici, VD. [14:14:08] *** master_of_master has joined #opensolaris [14:16:42] *** Risky has quit IRC [14:24:03] *** karrotx has quit IRC [14:24:46] <quasi> hmm, I wonder how I managed to miss that b72 was getting lx support for 2.6 kernels [14:24:55] <asyd> !? [14:24:58] <asyd> very nice! [14:25:13] <timsf> where'd you read that quasi ? [14:25:57] <quasi> timsf: http://blogs.sun.com/gravax/entry/skype_1_4_on_solaris [14:26:35] *** master_o1_master has quit IRC [14:26:38] <richlowe> woohoo, the naming is causing yet more confusion. [14:27:03] <timsf> amazing, last I heard there wasn't a roadmap [14:28:29] <timsf> (just shows I'm listening to the wrong people ;-) [14:29:34] <quasi> timsf: yeah, that's what I heard as well [14:31:19] *** Cass has left #opensolaris [14:34:48] *** ashner has quit IRC [14:38:12] <boyd> Me too [14:40:51] *** ocr has joined #opensolaris [14:50:50] *** peteh has quit IRC [14:58:13] *** cormac_ is now known as cormac [14:59:51] *** derchris has quit IRC [15:02:46] *** Cass has joined #opensolaris [15:05:53] *** tek-ops has joined #opensolaris [15:05:58] *** balbir has quit IRC [15:10:09] *** IPGHOST has joined #opensolaris [15:10:26] <flyingparchment> how suitable is VxVM for large-scale software raid? [15:10:39] <flyingparchment> e.g. taking several 1-2TB disk arrays and raiding them [15:11:10] *** nachox has joined #opensolaris [15:15:05] <nachox> evening [15:16:35] *** Drone has quit IRC [15:17:09] *** derchris has joined #opensolaris [15:17:50] <Berny> christ that linsucks stuff really annoys me [15:19:55] *** mikefut has joined #opensolaris [15:21:10] <Berny> .oO(bla requires GLIBC_2.4) [15:21:23] <Berny> .oO(you only have GLIBC_2.3 so bugger off) [15:22:11] *** derchris has quit IRC [15:23:25] *** DoYouKnow has joined #opensolaris [15:24:18] *** Drone has joined #opensolaris [15:27:38] *** xOmega has joined #opensolaris [15:28:29] <logic_> doh.. http://get.opensolaris.org/ gives me a 403.. [15:28:33] *** DoYouKnow has quit IRC [15:28:59] *** eboutilier has joined #opensolaris [15:29:32] <asyd> logic_: same here [15:29:57] <richlowe> either send mail to website-discuss, or, perhaps more practically, blame eboutilier :) [15:30:10] <richlowe> (I doubt it's his fault, but hey) [15:30:17] <logic_> LOL [15:30:22] <eboutilier> Eh? Did someone say my name that quick, or is it just that I'm w/out coffee still? [15:30:53] * eboutilier chugs [15:31:07] <quasi> eboutilier: or just a combination of the two [15:31:10] <eboutilier> Oh, 'morning Rich [15:31:41] <eboutilier> :-) [15:31:50] <quasi> eboutilier: easy fix - drink a few gallons of coffee [15:31:55] <eboutilier> Done [15:32:11] <eboutilier> What's up that you need to post to website-discuss? [15:32:25] <logic_> http://get.opensolaris.org/ gives me a 403.. [15:32:34] * eboutilier looks [15:32:48] * logic_ is gonna get some coffee too [15:33:40] <eboutilier> logic_: I get it too. Any other pages w/ 403's that you've noticed? [15:34:27] <richlowe> eboutilier: planet.opensolaris.org is busted, too [15:34:37] <richlowe> www and src appear to work. [15:35:39] *** RaD|Tz has joined #opensolaris [15:36:41] <eboutilier> Hm, mail.opensolaris.org is OK too. [15:37:05] <eboutilier> Some kind DNS problem, perhaps not under our control, no doubt [15:37:45] <eboutilier> IOW, I think we'll have to get intervention from the sun.com IT folks to fix. [15:38:12] <eboutilier> But Derek would know for sure, but it's only 6:30 in CA. [15:38:33] <logic_> ok, i am gonna use the good old : http://www.opensolaris.org/os/downloads/ to get b72 :) [15:38:45] <eboutilier> Where's there a link to get.opensolaris.org? [15:39:10] <logic_> on the top of my irssi bar :) [15:39:20] <eboutilier> :-) [15:39:34] <eboutilier> Touche [15:40:07] <eboutilier> Of course I meant one that real people might click on ;-) [15:40:34] * Berny is real! [15:40:57] <victori_> how would you list all the potential services to startup? [15:41:02] <victori_> I am looking at svcs [15:41:06] <Cyrille> svcs -a? [15:41:07] <logic_> hehehe lol, i believe the link is on some pages on the opensolaris site [15:41:18] <Berny> svcs \* [15:41:18] <victori_> thanks [15:41:24] <logic_> like: http://opensolaris.org/os/announcements/ [15:41:34] <victori_> ok now silly question is there anything like /etc/rc.local? [15:41:41] <victori_> where I can add startup sh scripts [15:42:01] *** IPGHOST has quit IRC [15:42:04] <Berny> /etc/init.d [15:42:11] <Berny> aehm /etc/rcX.d [15:42:25] <victori_> thanks [15:42:54] <Berny> X being a number corresponding to the runlevel at which to start the script [15:43:01] <victori_> hm one last thing smf scripts are stored where? [15:43:18] <victori_> trying hard to wrap my head around solaris [15:44:24] <timsf> often in /lib/svc/method - but they don't have to be... [15:44:28] <Berny> /lib/svc/method [15:44:31] *** pfa3rh has joined #opensolaris [15:44:35] <timsf> svcprop -p start/exec svc:/<foo> [15:44:40] <richlowe> and manifests in /var/svc/manifest [15:44:41] <timsf> to find out per service. [15:44:46] <Berny> but rather use svccfg to import a manifest [15:45:23] <eboutilier> logic_: I just pinged derek and stevel about the 403's -- will report back here w/in an hour or two hopefully [15:46:18] <richlowe> eboutilier: I thought stevel was still out. [15:46:33] <flyingparchment> do US people working office hours usually start at 8 or 9? [15:46:42] <richlowe> flyingparchment: no idea. [15:46:46] <richlowe> "one or the other" [15:46:48] <richlowe> :) [15:47:08] <flyingparchment> i'm trying to find a balance between drinking and having to call US sales guy later [15:47:15] <flyingparchment> i don't want to be too drunk when i do that.. [15:47:25] <richlowe> flyingparchment: where in the US though? [15:47:29] <flyingparchment> CA [15:47:38] <richlowe> Oh, bloody west coast. [15:47:41] <flyingparchment> yeah [15:47:44] <richlowe> I was going to say "Wait 20 minutes, and try then" [15:47:51] <richlowe> but yeah, that won't work. [15:48:49] *** Pietro_S has joined #opensolaris [15:48:54] <victori_> odd enabled ftp, seems like it is on, but not able to connect? [15:49:22] <victori_> svcs shows it online [15:49:27] *** cmihai has joined #OpenSolaris [15:49:45] <eboutilier> richlowe: Good point, oh well too late to unsend my e-mail. [15:50:23] <flyingparchment> richlowe: the real problem is bloody americans having to do everything on the phone [15:50:31] <flyingparchment> it's the 21st century, what's wrong with email? [15:51:27] <timsf> victori_ can you telnet <your machine> 21 ? [15:51:33] <victori_> sec [15:51:40] <victori_> refused [15:51:50] <victori_> tried ftp from inetdadm and svcadm [15:51:55] <timsf> Right, so ftp isn't on. [15:51:56] <victori_> and no [15:52:04] <victori_> svcs showed it as online [15:52:13] <richlowe> flyingparchment: Yeah, they seem to think conversation and such are good things. [15:52:27] <timsf> Hmm anything in the log in /var/svc/log ? [15:53:44] <richlowe> eboutilier: see msg. [15:53:48] <victori_> timsf: no errors [15:54:08] <victori_> online 6:53:15 svc:/network/ftp:default [15:54:11] *** Dar is now known as Dar_HOME [15:54:30] <victori_> I suppose I can continue using sftp [15:54:42] <victori_> but still want to know why ftp isnt working for the hell of it [15:54:43] <timsf> That's safer of course, but I wonder what's wrong with ftp... [15:54:46] <timsf> I agree. [15:55:05] <victori_> this is solaris express from yesterday [15:55:06] <timsf> is in.ftpd running ? [15:55:09] <logic_> eboutilier: ok , thanx for the help, hope you get it fixed :) [15:55:28] <victori_> oh god dont know the specifics of ps in solaris [15:55:52] *** sfire||mouse has joined #opensolaris [15:56:03] *** sfire||mouse has quit IRC [15:56:04] <timsf> pgrep in.ftpd would do it [15:56:05] <Berny> ps -ef|grep ftp [15:56:13] <richlowe> timsf: svcprop -p general/restarter ftp [15:56:18] <richlowe> so it wouldn't be, would it... [15:56:21] <victori_> nope not running [15:56:31] <richlowe> victori_: is inetd enabled and online? [15:56:44] <victori_> online 20:06:23 svc:/network/inetd:default [15:56:44] <victori_> - yep [15:56:49] <timsf> (thought enabling ftp would enable inetd anyway) [15:56:55] <victori_> ftp on inetd is disabled [15:56:58] <victori_> if I am using the svcs one [15:56:59] <richlowe> timsf: should, but if you're hunting for a bug... [15:57:16] <timsf> inetadm -l ftp ? [15:57:19] <victori_> oh wait ftp is on in inetd [15:57:22] <richlowe> timsf: or rather, svcs would point you in the right direction. [15:57:28] <timsf> yup [15:57:46] <victori_> odd? [15:57:55] <victori_> I thought it could of been ipfw [15:58:04] <victori_> or whatever solaris uses for firewall [15:58:09] <timsf> ipfilter [15:58:29] <tek-ops> hey [15:58:42] <cmihai> ipfw is FreeBSD. [15:58:43] <tek-ops> is there a list of best/fully supported laptops for opensolaris? [15:58:49] <victori_> should I just write off ftp? [15:58:57] <victori_> its no big deal [15:59:16] <timsf> Up to you victori_ - it should work fine... [15:59:18] <cmihai> tek-ops, check the HCL. The new Santa Rosa platform stuff is nice. [15:59:27] <tek-ops> thanks cmihai [15:59:32] <timsf> so depends on how much you care about why it's not working :-) [15:59:56] <victori_> oh maybe inetd needed a restart [16:00:33] <victori_> yep [16:00:42] <timsf> phew. [16:00:47] <victori_> thought the svc utils might be smart enough to restart dependencies [16:01:00] <tek-ops> hey, is it just me or do the screenshots of OS X 10.5 look a lot like looking glass? [16:01:09] <timsf> They should be - but inetadm is what managed inetservices by the looks of it [16:01:57] <cmihai> tek-ops, it's not just you. [16:02:15] <victori_> in.ftpd should of not shown up since inetd starts it up on demand [16:02:16] <tek-ops> hahaha http://grommit.com/gallery/v/stephen/oscon2007/exhibit_floor/DSC_2942.JPG.html [16:02:43] <timsf> (I was ftping stuff at the time, hence it was there ;-) [16:03:00] <tek-ops> so I'm guessing they are utilizing looking glass, as opposed to just a remock-up [16:03:12] <tek-ops> has there been recent headway on that project? [16:03:22] <timsf> Er, great artists steal tek-ops! [16:04:06] <tek-ops> well, I do sense soem cooperation between sun and apple, maybe that's just optimisim... [16:04:29] <cmihai> ZFS on MacOS is interesting though. [16:04:41] <tek-ops> are they still saying it'll be read-only? [16:04:50] <cmihai> The what now? [16:04:53] <tek-ops> i've been soooo busy in recent weeks [16:05:02] <tek-ops> s/soem/some [16:06:03] <tek-ops> cmihai last I heard, zfs support on os x was going to be read-only [16:06:22] <tek-ops> steve gets pissed when people leak anything [16:06:29] *** peteh has joined #opensolaris [16:07:15] <cmihai> tek-ops, oh, so I really should delete that leaked beta? :P [16:07:22] <tek-ops> hahaha [16:07:35] <tek-ops> even still, they could limit it in final release [16:07:41] <cmihai> That would suck. [16:07:43] <tek-ops> either way, I'd really like to see zfs support [16:07:48] <tek-ops> yea it really really would suck [16:08:06] <cmihai> Well, at least we have our FreeBSD. Hooray for helpfull weirdos! [16:08:11] <cmihai> Ooops, wrong movie :P [16:08:14] <boyd> WTF are you supposed to do with a read-only filsystem? [16:08:23] <timsf> Read it ? [16:08:28] <cmihai> boyd, You know, like read only memory. [16:08:40] <cmihai> Write once, read never [16:08:45] <Cyrille> I prefer write only memory [16:08:48] <cmihai> Or even better [16:08:49] <boyd> Create it and then marvel at its checksum protected emptyness? [16:08:54] <cmihai> Aaaa, what Cyrille said :P [16:08:55] <Berny> thats cool... r/o you caanot accidently delete ;-) [16:09:10] <Berny> with only one mouse button that happen sooo easy... [16:09:38] <boyd> Of, course, deletion is an un-needed feature when you can't create. [16:09:53] <timsf> well, having checksums on (say) my DVDs would mean I could scrub them, and be assured my data hasn't become rotten [16:10:38] <boyd> Yeah, and snapshots will allow you to keep old versions of you... oh, never mind [16:10:39] <cmihai> So make iso's and checksum them. [16:11:03] <timsf> what if I only want to check the integrity of one file on that dvd ? [16:11:13] <tek-ops> they could possibly link it with timevault or whatever the hell their snapshot system is named [16:11:14] <timsf> I don't have the compute resources to verify 5gb of checksum... [16:11:21] <cmihai> Uhuh [16:11:22] <boyd> Checksum the file? [16:11:26] <timsf> (don't pay me enough to afford that sort of hardware) [16:11:29] <tek-ops> and make the zfs writing only allowed for snapshots [16:11:29] <timsf> exactly.. [16:12:04] <tek-ops> either way, anyone have Looking Glass running on an opensolaris box? [16:12:18] <Berny> tried it ages ago [16:12:25] <cmihai> What's the point [16:12:35] <tek-ops> it's sexier than gnome [16:12:37] <Berny> show off [16:12:46] <tek-ops> c'mon [16:12:58] *** xushi_ has joined #opensolaris [16:12:59] <tek-ops> the sexy interface definitely helped the resurgance of apple [16:13:39] <boyd> But the great thing about the apple interface is that when you click on things they actually do useful stuff.. [16:13:48] <tek-ops> i know this [16:14:10] *** laca has joined #opensolaris [16:14:11] <boyd> Versus, say... the JDS Trash [16:14:26] <tek-ops> I just don't like gnome to be honest [16:14:30] <cmihai> When I click on JDS Trash it trashes my desktop :P [16:14:33] <boyd> .. and the "Screen resolution" preferences [16:14:54] <boyd> (does anyone know why the screen res thing is there if it doesn't do anything? [16:15:07] <tek-ops> maybe planning for the future? [16:15:10] <cmihai> To tell you how big your screen resolution is duh [16:15:13] <timsf> It used to do stuff alright [16:15:26] <boyd> So is it planning, or history? [16:15:31] <timsf> worked quite nicely on my m100 laptop (back when it had a working screen) [16:15:35] <tek-ops> hah, or both [16:15:45] * boyd mumbles. Or neither [16:15:58] <tek-ops> would you consider switching to looking glass if it were a viable option? [16:16:00] <timsf> On my nvidia twinview dual monitor nv_69 box here in the office, it just displays the resolution [16:16:15] <timsf> (and the wrong refresh rate) [16:16:37] <boyd> There ya go. If it isn't correct and/or useful it shouldn't be there [16:17:14] <timsf> it's just a bug.. [16:17:22] <Berny> works fine on my acer notebook [16:17:28] <timsf> see! [16:17:49] <boyd> Personally, I have never had it do anything useful other than say "Your server doesn't support XrandR [16:18:09] <nachox> xsun? [16:18:12] <boyd> and for and X server that it can't work on.... why is it there? [16:18:14] <boyd> yes.. [16:18:25] <nachox> yep, sucks [16:18:46] <boyd> If you present an option and it doesn't work it looks worse than not offering it in the first place. [16:19:11] <nachox> maybe when FOX starts integrating crap, you will have xorg even in sparc and let xsun die a decent death [16:19:14] <Berny> suggest that to the desktop folks :-) [16:20:07] *** alanbur has joined #opensolaris [16:20:18] <nachox> i think it's the X folks that are in charge [16:20:23] <boyd> Well, I'm off to bed. [16:20:25] <boyd> Night all [16:20:39] <nachox> note [16:20:46] <Berny> x folks decide whats in the jds menus? [16:27:52] <tek-ops> berny what difficulties did you have with looking glass on opensolaris? [16:28:02] <victori_> no vipw on solaris? [16:28:21] <cmihai> victori_, ucb [16:28:33] <victori_> ucb? [16:28:37] <cmihai> /usr/ucb/bin/vip, vipw is BSD, UCB stands for University of California Berkeley [16:28:38] <cmihai> lalalalala [16:28:41] <victori_> ah thanks [16:28:47] <cmihai> use find(1) or grep vipw /var/sadm/install/contents [16:28:52] <flyingparchment> you don't usually edit the passwd file on solaris [16:28:55] <flyingparchment> use passwd, usermod, etc [16:29:01] <cmihai> when looking for stuff, btw there's other tools to edit the password file lalala etc [16:29:02] <Berny> tek-ops: none other it was one of the first previews available [16:29:38] <Berny> it didn't do much besides looking cool [16:29:44] <victori_> i just wanted to check if blastwave added users to my global zone when adding postfix [16:29:59] <cmihai> You can just use cat... [16:30:08] <cmihai> And I don't thing it did. [16:30:11] <victori_> yes but I wanted to see if vipw was there as well [16:31:15] <victori_> ya blaswave added entrys into passwd [16:31:23] <tek-ops> berny, were you unable to load up terminal sessions? [16:31:25] <flyingparchment> blastwave sucks for zones [16:31:28] <flyingparchment> it put config files in /opt [16:31:36] <flyingparchment> so if you share /opt between zones, you're screwed [16:31:41] <tek-ops> it still runs on X doesn't it? [16:33:12] <SYS64738> where must I put default root ? [16:33:15] <Berny> tek-ops: i think a terminal worked [16:36:32] *** alanbur has left #opensolaris [16:36:38] <edp> why would I be getting a "Cannot unmount some_filesystem: Not owner" when trying to rename a ZFS filesystem? [16:37:13] *** onga has quit IRC [16:37:14] <edp> the directory as well as all of the snapshots are owned by root [16:40:24] *** johnlev has quit IRC [16:41:27] * quasi looks at his s10u4 x86 download flying by - getting 5 - 6Mbit dsc - quite an improvement over the other day when I gave up because it was less than 100k [16:42:59] *** jwk404 has joined #opensolaris [16:43:20] <nachox> planet.opensolaris.org is dead [16:43:35] <Sup3rkiddo> quasi, show off!!1!!1 [16:43:50] <Berny> nachox: is it still? [16:44:21] <nachox> it seems like it [16:44:47] <quasi> Sup3rkiddo: everyone has been complaining about it being extremely slow - now they seem to have fixed the problem [16:45:07] <Berny> quasi: worng... everyone already has it by now :-) [16:45:21] * Sup3rkiddo looks at his 30K/sec connection [16:46:06] <quasi> Berny: the odd thing was that the sparc download was flying as well when the x86 was crawling [16:47:03] <SYS64738> is /etc/defaultroute the right place where to put default routes ? [16:47:10] <Berny> sparc customers prefered... they paid already :-) [16:47:47] <Stric> quasi: ^C and try again might get you onto a faster machine sometimes [16:50:00] *** stefanha has joined #opensolaris [16:51:29] <stefanha> What's up with OpenGrok? Definition search hasn't been working properly for a few weeks, and now src.opensolaris.org is failing with "Error: DATA_ROOT parameter in web.xml does not exist or is not a directory!". [16:54:24] <timsf> SYS64738, I think you want either /etc/defaultrouter or /etc/inet/static_routes [16:54:43] *** tsoome has quit IRC [16:55:48] <SYS64738> i must set two default gateways each for the two subnet that I have [16:56:22] <PerterB> why would you want two default gateways on the same subnet? [16:56:43] <SYS64738> I have two nic in two separated subnet [16:56:52] <SYS64738> one in the lan and the secondo in the dmz [16:57:07] <SYS64738> i need the second gateway to make zones in dmz can exit to the internet [16:57:24] <PerterB> then you almost certainly want one default route and some number of static routes [16:57:28] <timsf> I suspect using route add -p will do the right thing for you. [16:57:42] <SYS64738> like windows ? [16:57:45] <SYS64738> cooooool [16:57:46] <SYS64738> thanks [16:58:09] <timsf> (I admit to not being an expert here - but usually there's supported interfaces that aren't just hacking conf files) [16:58:21] <Cyrille> there are? [16:58:21] <PerterB> I think it's route -p add, but yeah [16:58:30] <timsf> mostly [16:58:33] <Cyrille> how odd [16:58:38] <SYS64738> super cool [16:59:08] <PerterB> (does the -p do the right thing for default routes as well as static?) [17:00:10] <logic_> stefanha: strange, i used opengrok yesterday and it was working [17:00:21] <stefanha> It went down a few hours ago. [17:00:25] <timsf> Yep, -p works, just tried it. [17:00:26] <stefanha> I used it earlier today. [17:01:13] <stefanha> logic_: what's been driving me crazy is that the definition search doesn't work. That degrades OpenGrok to worse than grep. You end up doing a full search and manually looking for function definitions. [17:02:14] <logic_> stefanha: we use opengrok also at my company, and im having the same problem, i'm always using full search [17:02:23] <PerterB> yeah, that's been broken for a while [17:04:11] * stefanha will try ctags on an hg checkout [17:04:33] <richlowe> xref -x ctags [17:04:41] <richlowe> or xref -x cscope, even better. :) [17:07:18] <stefanha> richlowe: cool thanks [17:08:52] <logic_> richlowe: what do you mean with that? [17:09:06] <logic_> richlowe: you put that in the run.sh from opengrok? [17:09:09] <stefanha> tools/scripts/xref [17:09:34] <richlowe> though I suspect xref isn't suitable to use with opengrok, thinking about it. [17:09:41] <richlowe> cscope is just generally handy, it's not opengrok related. [17:10:07] <logic_> ow ok , thanx for explaining [17:14:39] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris [17:16:52] <victori_> just curious what did they do to the coolstack ? ran a quick microbenchmark on the perl bin from coolstack it produced /way/ better results [17:17:05] <victori_> so what did they do? -O3 / disable probes? [17:19:34] <tek-ops> is there any links to the open ultrasparc page from opensolaris.org? [17:20:03] <richlowe> opensparc.net? [17:20:04] <richlowe> not sure. [17:20:16] <richlowe> I don't think there's links to the fossdocs wiki page, and there should be though. [17:20:19] <tek-ops> I dont see it in related links [17:20:25] <tek-ops> I just thought I would have [17:20:26] <richlowe> the guy who's running the appropriate page to link them from left sun though. [17:20:30] <richlowe> so maybe that's just stagnating. [17:21:05] <richlowe> oh, different leaders now, so it's stagnating without reason, too [17:21:19] *** elektronkind has joined #opensolaris [17:22:33] <cmihai> victori_, I doubt they've used gcc to build it. I'm thinking more along the lines of some newer version of Sun Studio. If you download the source, you'll see it's separate for SPARC and amd64 though. [17:22:42] <cmihai> Just grab it and check the Makefiles [17:22:43] <victori_> I see [17:22:59] <cmihai> After installation, please refer to the README file included in each of the application's directories. The README includes detailed information on the following: [17:23:00] <cmihai> how the application was built [17:23:00] <cmihai> Solaris-specific configuration and tuning notes. [17:23:01] <richlowe> common wisdom regarding the relative merit of gcc and spro code generation on sparc is, while common, not all wisdom. [17:23:06] <cmihai> Well, that answers your question. [17:23:11] <richlowe> folks in here who've actually looked at the differences have decidedly mixed results. [17:23:36] <cmihai> Meh, I've seen gcc perform faster too in some situations [17:24:15] <stefanha> doug: is there a text-mode oracle installer? I'm on VPN and X forwarding is pretty painful. [17:24:23] <cmihai> But anyway, if you care about the performance deal, just grab the src and read the README in each [17:24:33] <cmihai> stefanha, yes and no. [17:24:53] <stefanha> Do I need a pre-scripted config file, or is there an interactive installer? ;) [17:24:57] <cmihai> stefanha, you can just use ssh -X, that's actually fast enough. But if you want a text mode only installer, you'll need to use special deployments [17:25:03] <cmihai> Nah, no interactive [17:25:11] <stefanha> cmihai: I'm using ssh -X :) [17:25:24] <cmihai> That's fine then [17:25:56] <stefanha> cmihai: thanks [17:25:57] *** stefanha has quit IRC [17:36:09] *** SirFunk has quit IRC [17:41:29] <flyingparchment> do i need two dedicated links between hosts to set up Cluster? [17:41:32] <tek-ops> is there still talk about being able to buy T2 motherboards and chips without buying the full system from Sun? [17:47:30] *** bunker has quit IRC [17:48:53] <nachox> flyingparchment: according to the little documentation i read, yes,and it makes sense, one ethernet channel would be a single point to failure [17:49:15] <flyingparchment> yeah [17:49:22] <flyingparchment> i only want to test it though [17:50:07] <flyingparchment> i'm not sure these hosts have 3 ethernet ports :) [17:50:30] <timsf> stefanha, I've had good results setting up a vncserver on the remote machine, and tunnelling vnc over ssh [17:51:20] <timsf> something like "ssh -L 5902:127.0.0.1:5900 remotemachine.org" on the client, [17:51:35] <timsf> then use sufficient compression on the vncviewer [17:51:47] <timsf> /opt/csw/bin/vncviewer -encodings tight -quality 3 localhost:2 [17:52:09] <timsf> - works fine with (crappy) Irish 2mb/128k asdl to my mac at home... [17:52:26] <timsf> s/asdl/adsl/ [17:52:39] <cmihai> timsf, why tunnel VNC over ssh? [17:52:44] <timsf> It's faster [17:52:45] <cmihai> Can't you just use ssh -X [17:52:50] <timsf> It's faster. [17:52:52] <timsf> :-) [17:52:57] <cmihai> It's faster? [17:53:00] <cmihai> ssh compression? [17:53:20] *** duri has quit IRC [17:53:28] <timsf> Yep, still faster - X isn't a low bandwidth protocol (unless lbx is still around?) [17:53:36] *** duri has joined #opensolaris [17:55:17] *** SirFunk has joined #opensolaris [17:55:46] <cmihai> I usually get great results with blowfish and compression.. and again, I do have good bandwidth... usually 4-5MB/s [17:55:56] <timsf> showoff :-) [17:56:40] <flyingparchment> can i fake two nics for sun cluster using .1q vlans? [17:56:59] *** RElling has joined #opensolaris [17:57:02] <cmihai> I guess you can use some kind of tun / tap / whatever [17:57:07] <cmihai> But erm... umh.. why [17:57:16] <flyingparchment> cmihai: because i want to test it [17:57:19] <cmihai> Or you could VMware / qemu it [17:57:31] <flyingparchment> test = play with / experiment, without using in production [17:57:36] <flyingparchment> and these hosts only have 2 nics :) [17:57:37] <richlowe> timsf: I think lbx is generally still around, but I seem to recall it being EOF'd [17:57:49] <asyd> flyingparchment: you only have a signle physical NIC ? [17:57:53] <richlowe> ssh -X with compression on the ssh side should end up similar I think, however. [17:57:54] <cmihai> NX rocks [17:57:59] <flyingparchment> asyd: i have two [17:58:08] <flyingparchment> asyd: but one is used to connect to the network, so only one is spare [17:58:18] <victori> hmm I have an intel nic (not some oem thing, directly from intel) iprb0 device. It shows up in ifconfig but there is no network connectivity on it [17:58:19] <cmihai> richlowe, yeah, it's usually decent.. and blowfish for encryption too, it's a bit faster [17:58:22] <victori> anyone know what it could be? [17:58:30] *** IvanR_ has quit IRC [17:58:40] <timsf> I'll experiment around a bit more, but I'm not holding out much hope [17:58:40] <victori> this is on a rackmount and the card is plugged into this riser [17:58:47] <asyd> flyingparchment: sun cluster will ask you if you want dedicated them to sun cluster, or shared them using .1q [17:58:52] <cmihai> dladm show-dev && dl-adm show link victori_ [17:59:04] <timsf> (besides being able to connect to OSX apps is tricky when running X ;-) [17:59:11] <victori> cmihai: okay ill run those [17:59:18] <flyingparchment> asyd: so i can set up a .1q vlan with just the two cluster hosts on, and use one nic for that? [18:00:18] <CIA-24> jp161948: 6564479 Unable to build libopenssl using Studio 12 [18:00:19] <CIA-24> rd117015: 6583594 rctl_val_list_delete() is called with NULL root [18:02:18] *** estibi has joined #opensolaris [18:02:19] *** pfa3rh has quit IRC [18:05:07] *** Cass has left #opensolaris [18:06:22] * JoergB is away: for the night [18:06:35] *** pfa3rh has joined #opensolaris [18:08:13] *** johnlev has joined #opensolaris [18:11:09] *** dduvall has joined #opensolaris [18:11:43] *** Snake007uk has quit IRC [18:16:47] <victori> cmihai: shows it as up [18:16:53] <victori> however no connectivity on the device [18:17:07] <victori> can't plugin any nic directly due to the way the rackmount is shaped [18:17:14] <victori> and I know it works since netbsd was on that box [18:18:19] <elektronkind> arrrr src.opensolaris.org is down :/ [18:18:35] *** SirFunk has quit IRC [18:19:04] <victori> http://homepage2.nifty.com/mrym3/taiyodo/eng/ I suppose I can try the ife driver [18:19:18] *** onga has joined #opensolaris [18:20:15] <cmihai> victori hold on... [18:20:21] <victori> thanks [18:20:52] <victori> the only other OS that had issues with this nic is debian/2.6.18 kernel , centos/netbsd/freebsd all work fine with this type of configuration if that means anything [18:21:32] *** jwk404 has quit IRC [18:23:10] *** Cyrille has quit IRC [18:23:34] *** FelipeBare has joined #opensolaris [18:23:45] *** jwk404 has joined #opensolaris [18:23:52] *** jwk404 has left #opensolaris [18:25:44] <cmihai> victori can you start over? It is configured and shows up in dladm and ifconfig, but there is no traffic (not even for snoop?) [18:25:55] <victori> have not tried snoop [18:26:06] <victori> i am just doing ping 192.168.254.254 (our router) [18:26:38] <victori> this is from the install , I need to mount an nfs share to do the install [18:27:00] <cmihai> Some idiots block ping [18:27:02] <cmihai> Like MS firewall [18:27:03] <victori> I popped out from the install to shell to test out things [18:27:04] <cmihai> :P [18:27:11] <victori> no there is no connectivity period [18:27:29] <cmihai> Just put the NIC in promiscous mode (see snoop) and dump some traffic [18:28:32] <victori> ok snoop -d iprb0 [18:28:33] <victori> k [18:30:23] <victori> could be an irq conflict? http://www.bolthole.com/solaris/x86-newhardware.html [18:30:27] *** cmihai has quit IRC [18:30:28] <victori> though it is the only nic card in it [18:34:19] *** Erwann has quit IRC [18:37:00] <PerterB> that sort of thing shouldn't happen any more now that DCA is dead and buried [18:45:01] <victori> ya its useless [18:45:07] *** estibi has quit IRC [18:45:16] <elektronkind> huh? DCE? [18:47:45] *** xOmega has left #opensolaris [18:48:47] *** jelari has quit IRC [18:51:32] *** jwk404 has joined #opensolaris [18:58:03] *** cydork has quit IRC [19:07:26] *** timsf has quit IRC [19:09:45] <tek-ops> elektronkind just wanna say i dig the site [19:10:09] <tek-ops> just curious, has any employer mentioned anything about the psytrance party pics? [19:10:10] *** peteh has quit IRC [19:11:36] <tek-ops> oh that's a dumb question, I just noticed you dont have it listed on your resume [19:12:13] <tek-ops> well directly [19:13:14] *** dunc has joined #opensolaris [19:13:25] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris [19:14:21] *** pjlv has quit IRC [19:16:21] <PerterB> yeah, but employers use google ;) [19:17:45] <g4lt-sb100> PerterB, great, from my resume, manage to find a link to my online aliases [19:18:23] <PerterB> I haven't seen your resume, but elektronkind's leads straight back to one of his [19:18:35] <wesolows> really, any employer who isn't ok with the entire package that is wesolows isn't someone I'd want to work for anyway. Having to pretend you're at work even when you're not gets old real fast. [19:19:36] <PerterB> yeah... my informal appraisal at my last place was "does good work, so we turn a blind eye to the fact he's invariably sleep deprived and useless on mondays" [19:20:32] <brendang> g4lt-sb100: why use "online aliases"? got something to hide? [19:20:56] *** mikefut has quit IRC [19:21:13] <g4lt-sb100> brendang, yeah, that my RL sucks donkey balls [19:21:31] *** estibi has joined #opensolaris [19:21:38] <brendang> well, I guess I wasn't expecting that :) [19:21:57] <PerterB> neither were the donkeys [19:25:04] <wesolows> the ones in his hotel room? [19:25:08] *** Vorbis_w39 has joined #opensolaris [19:26:28] *** estibi has quit IRC [19:27:06] *** migi has quit IRC [19:27:25] *** charlesnw has joined #opensolaris [19:30:44] *** Vorbis_w11 has quit IRC [19:35:23] *** trede has quit IRC [19:35:56] * tsp unfortunately uses his realname online :) [19:36:02] *** bubbva has joined #opensolaris [19:38:49] *** alanc-away is now known as alanc [19:49:46] *** estibi has joined #opensolaris [19:50:43] *** RaD|Tz has quit IRC [19:52:07] *** bengtf has quit IRC [19:54:46] *** vmlemon has joined #opensolaris [19:58:01] *** johnniez_ has quit IRC [20:00:43] *** Kush- has quit IRC [20:00:56] *** Kush- has joined #opensolaris [20:02:27] *** johnlev has quit IRC [20:04:06] *** tek-ops has quit IRC [20:05:14] *** johnlev has joined #opensolaris [20:05:59] <CIA-24> wesolows: PSARC 2007/177 SMF read-protected property storage, PSARC 2007/519 svccfg(1M) restore, 6537749 SMF should support read-protection of data, 6538452 svccfg delete leaks memory on syntax error with options, 6546699 svccfg archive should be able to be reimported, 6559692 svccfg fails to import a manifest with an empty <property>, 6597168 startd is setting $SMF_METHOD incorrectly, 6597173 allocation failure can induce crash in scf_handle_decode_fmr [20:08:19] <axisys> anyone knws why i cannot delete old lu env on sol 10 x86 http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/696064 [20:10:12] <axisys> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/696068 shows I should be able to delete it [20:10:19] *** hile_ has quit IRC [20:13:13] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris [20:17:24] *** Murmuria has joined #opensolaris [20:17:33] *** Murmuria has left #opensolaris [20:19:27] <the-decider> tek-ops: (re elektronkinds psytrace pics)... his employer goes to those parties. [20:20:22] *** fbo has joined #opensolaris [20:20:56] *** sbahra has joined #opensolaris [20:32:30] *** hile_ has joined #opensolaris [20:38:41] *** FrostCS has quit IRC [20:38:54] *** xOmega has joined #opensolaris [20:39:23] *** apuc has joined #opensolaris [20:39:38] <elektronkind> fffff [20:41:58] *** apuc has quit IRC [20:43:18] *** nachox has quit IRC [20:45:39] <dwc-> 00000 [20:47:32] *** sommerfeld has joined #opensolaris [20:47:33] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o sommerfeld [20:48:25] <axisys> ERROR: Unable to add entry for BE ID <2> - the root device </dev/dsk/c0t3d0s0> is already in use by another boot environment [20:48:29] <axisys> but it is not [20:48:42] <richlowe> you're sure? [20:49:17] <axisys> lustatus shows only the current boot environment sol10u3 [20:49:25] <richlowe> and do /etc/lutab, /etc/lu/ICF*, and vfstab in any other BE's agree with you? :) [20:49:43] <richlowe> (I think there's at least one other place it checks, too, but I forget what it is) [20:49:46] <axisys> richlowe: no :-) [20:50:11] <axisys> is there a command to clear it or do i edit it manually [20:50:26] <richlowe> I don't know the right way to make it happy. [20:51:20] <elektronkind> is anyone with uid 0 on os.org aware that src.opensolaris.org is kaput? [20:51:28] <richlowe> Yes. [20:51:32] <richlowe> see website-discuss [20:51:41] * elektronkind should sub to that list [20:51:46] <axisys> richlowe: remving the entry from /etc/lutab cleared it [20:51:58] <axisys> richlowe: thanx a lot man! [20:52:56] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC [20:53:26] *** holcomb has quit IRC [20:53:40] *** holcomb has joined #opensolaris [20:54:51] *** mikefut has joined #opensolaris [20:56:56] *** eboutilier has quit IRC [20:57:33] *** Chipdancer has quit IRC [20:58:28] *** derchris has joined #opensolaris [21:00:13] <CIA-24> edp: 6599699 libproc sometimes fails to determine a processes brand, 6602294 ps_pbrandname breaks apps linked directly against librtld_db [21:05:23] *** derchris has quit IRC [21:06:26] *** derchris has joined #opensolaris [21:06:32] *** bondolo has quit IRC [21:07:25] <flyingparchment> what is "nearline fibre channel"? [21:07:56] <axisys> according to sun device detection tool my laptop does not have these three drivers (http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/696157) if i install solxpress dev edn 5/07 [21:08:05] <axisys> are they available in b71? [21:08:25] *** Fullmoon has joined #opensolaris [21:09:36] *** Fullmoon has quit IRC [21:09:39] *** Fullmoon has joined #opensolaris [21:11:03] *** xico27 has joined #opensolaris [21:12:15] *** bondolo has joined #opensolaris [21:12:50] *** xico27 has left #opensolaris [21:14:35] *** Fullmoon has quit IRC [21:14:38] *** Fullmoon has joined #opensolaris [21:15:02] *** Fullmoon has quit IRC [21:15:23] *** Fullmoon has joined #opensolaris [21:15:43] *** sahafeez has joined #opensolaris [21:16:04] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris [21:17:26] *** Fullmoon has quit IRC [21:17:29] <sommerfeld> flyingparchment: I've seen "nearline" used to cover stuff like disk-to-disk backup to slower disk where you have a screaming fast set of disks for the live copy of the database and a set of slower "nearline" disks for a backup copy. [21:18:07] <flyingparchment> fuji seem to use it to refer to an SATA disk with an FC-AL interface [21:18:16] <sommerfeld> (for instance, database on 15krpm FC disks, "nearline" on 7200 rpm SATA disks) [21:18:33] *** Fullmoon has joined #opensolaris [21:18:45] <sommerfeld> that's consistent with what i've seen. [21:19:03] <sommerfeld> FC to the array controller, SATA inside the array. [21:19:17] <flyingparchment> i mean, literally a disk with an FC interface [21:19:27] <flyingparchment> 7200rpm, 500GB, FC-AL [21:20:18] <Pietro_S> axisys: the first driver - I doubt, the second one, I don't think that they would in in 71, but you try to find such drivers on laptop comunity portal [21:20:27] <axisys> richlowe: can you tell what this error means? i cannot ludelet old env http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/696068 [21:21:59] *** Fullmoon has joined #opensolaris [21:22:21] <axisys> Pietro_S: taht is my HP/Compaq nc 6220 laptop.. i wonder if I could expect same experience w/ b71 as my ubuntu 7.04 fiesty fawn?! any suggestion? hold off until later maybe?! [21:24:04] <axisys> can u beleive there is not a single match in google for this error? ludelete lulib_relocate_grub_slice not found .. wow!! [21:24:58] <quasi> you seem to have a knack for breaking solaris in new and not very interesting ways [21:25:41] <axisys> quasi: i love your constructive comments.. :P [21:26:14] <trochej> something going on with planet.os.org? [21:26:15] <axisys> quasi: i am trying to delete sol10u3 env .. i am on new boot env sol10u4 on x86 [21:28:32] *** Andy_Pease has quit IRC [21:28:42] <axisys> found a workaround http://blogs.sun.com/vl/entry/live_upgrade_feature_usage_experience [21:28:48] *** Fullmoon has quit IRC [21:28:49] *** Andy_Pease has joined #opensolaris [21:28:53] *** Fullmoon has joined #opensolaris [21:30:19] *** xOmega has quit IRC [21:31:06] *** FrostCS has joined #opensolaris [21:35:09] <FireflyST> n e 1 seen Triskelios? [21:37:12] *** johnlev has quit IRC [21:38:48] *** tek-ops has joined #opensolaris [21:38:58] *** johnlev has joined #opensolaris [21:39:03] <tek-ops> how do you determine how much load a particular process is putting on a system [21:42:36] <tek-ops> what should I use instead of top [21:43:17] <DerJoern> how do i get my current maxphys? [21:43:27] <Pietro_S> tek-ops: prstat [21:43:44] <tek-ops> that's pietro [21:44:03] <tek-ops> i'm trying to figure out how to get it to run [21:44:06] <tek-ops> :) [21:44:18] <tek-ops> "prstat: failed to load terminal info" maybe it doesn't like ssh [21:44:30] *** cydork has joined #opensolaris [21:44:48] *** bengtf_ has joined #opensolaris [21:44:51] <tek-ops> no, just didnt' like xterm-color [21:44:54] <tek-ops> thanks again pietro [21:45:11] <tek-ops> this is WAY cooler than top [21:46:07] <quasi> it is also much closer to being correct [21:46:37] <quasi> the real fun starts with prstat -amL or -zmL [21:47:29] *** cydork has quit IRC [21:48:06] <quasi> ehrm, -ZmL [21:48:56] <Pietro_S> tek-ops: for the additional process analizing - take look to /usr/demo/dtrace especially io stuff is neat [21:49:01] *** cmihai has joined #OpenSolaris [21:49:12] *** forelle has joined #opensolaris [21:49:30] *** Fish has quit IRC [21:52:35] *** forelle has quit IRC [21:52:45] *** _william_ has joined #opensolaris [21:52:48] <_william_> hi all [21:53:51] <_william_> i have a problem during the installation of svn_72. It does not find my dhcp server on the network :( Of coruse this server works fine with other boxes running various OSes... any ideas of what i should look for ? or any pointer to a documentation ? [21:54:21] <quasi> look for the network card not working [21:54:29] <_william_> it works [21:54:35] <_william_> already checked [21:54:40] <quasi> first thing I'd try a static ip to make sure [21:54:59] <_william_> that's what i am doing right now, but it worked with previous releases [21:55:10] <wesolows> is there anything unusual about the DHCP server? It's a pretty standard thing, and I've never seen the Solaris client not work with any ordinary server. [21:55:45] <_william_> nothing special, i tried with two different (openbsd based or netgear router based) none works [21:56:07] <Pietro_S> any special things about getting date/time on solaris? (I'm porting xfce timer plugin, it compiles fine, but it time doesn't work at all :( ) [21:56:37] <wesolows> gettimeofday(3C) is really standard, and works fine on OpenSolaris [21:56:46] <wesolows> not sure what calls this thing is doing [21:57:33] <wesolows> _william_: The only thing I might suggest is getting a shell and doing ifconfig <interface> dhcp, then looking in the logs for dhcp client errors. You might also search b.o.o to see if anyone else has hit this. [21:58:01] <_william_> i did this, i don't see any dhcp request in the server log [21:58:07] <Pietro_S> oh, well he problem was btw. chair and keyboard - I didn't hit - start timer ... [21:58:26] <Pietro_S> now it works well ;-) [21:58:33] <wesolows> is the server on the same subnet? If you get the client's mac address and do snoop ether <mac> on the server, do you see any traffic? [21:58:51] <_william_> yes it is, i haven't tried yet [21:58:55] <_william_> i will check this [21:59:21] <_william_> i am finishing a sys-unconfig to revert to static ip from a clean config [21:59:31] *** migi has joined #opensolaris [21:59:59] <ottom> _william_: also check that the DHCP server has addresses available to lease on this subnet [22:00:15] <CIA-24> rs200217: 6603905 mdns files appear in wsdiff output due to javadoc timestamp option and use of __DATE__/__TIME__ [22:00:41] <_william_> ottom: already done, the box is in dual boot, under Windows it works, under solaris it fails. [22:01:36] <ottom> _william_: OK, good [22:01:59] *** eboutilier has joined #opensolaris [22:02:15] <Pietro_S> bye, have nice time [22:02:20] *** Pietro_S has quit IRC [22:02:21] <_william_> bye Pietro_S [22:04:46] *** Kernel86_ is now known as Kernel86 [22:09:52] <_william_> even if i use a static IP it does not work [22:10:05] <_william_> i cannot ping my gateway which is on the same subnet [22:11:42] <ottom> are you ping'ing the gateway by name or by IP address? Do you get an error message, or just no response? [22:12:23] <coffman> _william_: you could try "svcadm disable physical:default" followed by "svcadm enable physical:nwam" all as root ofc [22:12:26] <_william_> ip address, and it does not ping [22:12:57] <ottom> does 'arp -an' show the gateway's IP and MAC? [22:13:20] <ottom> what does 'netstat -in' say? [22:13:40] <_william_> no it does not show anything [22:13:51] <_william_> coffman: the result of ping has changed [22:13:58] <_william_> before it was silent [22:14:13] <_william_> now it says that host is unreachable from gateaway localhost [22:16:39] <coffman> what does "ifconfig -a" shows you? [22:17:12] <_william_> sorry i cannot copy paste :( it show nge0 and nge1 which are ok [22:17:45] <coffman> hm [22:18:08] <coffman> _william_: you did sys-unconfig ? [22:18:21] <_william_> 3 time tonight [22:19:13] <_william_> i am trying the same with the other interface [22:19:21] *** migi has quit IRC [22:22:11] *** tek-ops has quit IRC [22:22:35] <coffman> hm [22:23:42] <coffman> _william_: i would do sys-unconfig, and choose non-networked, then do the "svcadm disable physical:default" followed by "svcadm enable physical:nwam . this would nwam handle your network stuff, which is okay on dhcp only [22:23:53] <coffman> did you checked a other switch port? [22:23:58] *** ichigo has joined #opensolaris [22:24:18] <_william_> yes i did, it does not work, and if i reboot to windows it works (dhcp) so it is not the switch [22:27:07] <SYS64738> does exist the postfix package fro opensolaris ? [22:27:43] <wesolows> there's a Solaris package at Blastwave, I know. [22:27:56] <_william_> yes :) [22:27:57] <wesolows> It probably works on other OpenSolaris distributions too. [22:28:16] <_william_> ok sys-unconfig under progress... lets boot it :) [22:30:59] <SYS64738> blastwave sux [22:31:22] <wesolows> Unfortunately I don't see Postfix on the CCD [22:34:25] *** fbo has quit IRC [22:35:46] <cmihai> www.blastwave.org, get pkg-get, pkg-get install postfix, problem solved. That, or just use sendmail, it's in Solaris. [22:35:49] <_william_> coffman: i did what you suggested and it does not work [22:35:53] <_william_> still no ip [22:36:19] <wesolows> _william_: You're getting close to being able to file a bug here, especially if static IP also fails to work, as you seem to indicate. [22:36:29] <wesolows> Again, have you searched b.o.o? [22:36:53] <_william_> boo is the bugtracker right ? [22:37:09] <wesolows> well, it's an interface that allows searching bugs, and let's leave it at that [22:37:18] <wesolows> glorifying it beyond that is unreasonable :-) [22:37:26] *** johnlev has quit IRC [22:37:32] <_william_> :) [22:37:34] <_william_> not yet [22:37:38] <_william_> what is the url ? [22:37:42] <wesolows> bugs.opensolaris.org [22:37:51] <wesolows> The weird thing is that I don't remember anyone changing nge lately. [22:37:57] <_william_> he he ... next time i'll think before writing ;) i promise :) [22:38:04] <wesolows> But it sounds like you can't get nge to work, more or less. [22:38:11] <_william_> that's it [22:38:38] <_william_> and it was working previously, and it network adapter is not fried since my u20 works well under XP [22:38:39] <sommerfeld> there have been a number of reports of nge not working with recent hardware [22:39:09] <wesolows> MCP61 support was added 28 August [22:39:13] <_william_> i used the network configurator from the admin menu under gnome [22:39:23] <wesolows> but he claims this has worked with older SX builds [22:39:25] <_william_> it says nge0 is active [22:39:29] <wesolows> so that seems unlikely to be the problem [22:39:29] *** sahafeez_ has joined #opensolaris [22:39:36] <_william_> but ifconfig -a show no ip (0.0.0.0) [22:39:49] *** sahafeez_ has quit IRC [22:40:05] <wesolows> if you do ifconfig nge0 10.0.0.1 up, what happens (where 10.0.0.1 is replaced with an appropriate address for your subnet) [22:40:47] <wesolows> trying to use GNOME stuff to debug a networking problem only compounds the possible failure modes [22:40:54] <sommerfeld> 6574207 [22:41:21] <_william_> no such interface :( [22:41:21] <sommerfeld> is one possibly related bug [22:41:22] <wesolows> That sounds possible [22:41:29] <_william_> argnnn what is going on ??? [22:41:44] <wesolows> _william_: ifconfig nge0 plumb; ifconfig nge0 addr up [22:41:45] <sommerfeld> apparently the nge driver doesn't reset enough of the chip state if the chip was driven by windows since it was last power cycled [22:42:25] <sommerfeld> one workaround is to power off, pull the power cord and wait a few seconds [22:42:28] *** zebra has quit IRC [22:42:40] <_william_> ok i see it having an ip [22:43:10] *** hspaans has joined #opensolaris [22:43:14] <_william_> but ping does not work [22:43:15] <sommerfeld> _william_: try the unplug trick [22:43:28] <_william_> ok [22:43:30] *** hile_ has quit IRC [22:43:49] *** hile__ has joined #opensolaris [22:43:52] <sommerfeld> (apparently some state in the chip survives even a soft power-off because the NIC chip gets standby power for wake-on-lan) [22:44:41] <wesolows> all these fancy schmancy power features that windows likes to use [22:45:15] <_william_> booting... [22:46:00] <sommerfeld> well, really, it's a bug in the driver in any event and may also indicate a bug in the chip documentation (not explaining how to fully reset the chips state). [22:46:36] <_william_> still booting... hopefully it is a dual core opteron inside ;) [22:47:59] <_william_> it seems the long time for boot came from dhcp timeout on nge1 (which has no link) [22:50:31] <_william_> ok i have an ip [22:50:35] <_william_> dns works [22:50:43] <_william_> traceroute seems to work [22:50:48] <_william_> but firefox does not work [22:52:49] <_william_> no i still have a name resultion problem, but now the network works [22:52:56] <_william_> thanks a lot guys [22:53:08] <_william_> it see that a real cold boot fixed it [22:53:46] <wesolows> then you've definitely hit the bug sommerfeld described [22:54:10] <wesolows> the workaround then is don't boot windows :-) [22:54:19] <_william_> lol [22:54:25] *** sahafeez has quit IRC [22:54:31] <_william_> today this computer has not booted windows [22:54:46] <_william_> i mean i was not running windows then switched to opensolaris [22:54:52] <_william_> oh well in fact maybe [22:55:02] <_william_> if it keeps information in the chip [22:55:18] <_william_> the problem can come from yesterdays or two days ago in fac t? [22:55:22] *** karrotx has joined #opensolaris [22:55:42] <wesolows> certainly [22:55:54] <_william_> holly cow :) [22:56:02] <wesolows> as long as there was no full power cycle since windows last ran, it seems the problem can occur [22:56:07] *** zebra has joined #opensolaris [22:56:36] <_william_> does it work if i switch off power supply (with the switch at the back of the computer on the PSU) or do i have to really remove the plug [22:56:44] *** johnlev has joined #opensolaris [22:56:54] <wesolows> probably the switch is enough [22:57:02] *** hile_ has joined #opensolaris [22:57:03] <_william_> anyways i will try :) [22:57:14] <wesolows> soft pushbutton switches no, but the rocker switch actually powers off on nearly all machines [22:57:46] *** xushi_ has quit IRC [22:57:53] <_william_> well thank you a lot guys [22:58:13] <_william_> i was drinving mad at this dhcp issue [22:59:24] *** FelipeBare has quit IRC [23:00:20] <CIA-24> baban: 6601949 nfsmapid should handle Windows users and groups in a heterogenous environment, 6604089 nfsmapid uses incorrect size when allocating the return buffer [23:00:33] *** nostoi has joined #opensolaris [23:04:14] *** Gman has joined #opensolaris [23:09:06] <victori> stupid question do I need to touch /reconfigure if I added a different nic card or solaris's devfs is smart enough to pick it up on next reboot? [23:09:30] <cmihai> dladm show-dev [23:09:51] <cmihai> If that shows it, just ifconfig card plumb up [23:09:56] <victori> ah got it [23:09:58] <victori> thanks [23:10:42] <cmihai> dladm show-link too. Make sure it's got everything connected and it's seen as up and 100/1000/whatever instead of "unknown" [23:10:53] *** nrubsig has joined #opensolaris [23:10:53] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig [23:11:39] <nrubsig> Erm, who own's opensolaris-core at opensolaris dot org ? [23:11:43] <nrubsig> er [23:11:45] <nrubsig> code [23:11:58] <richlowe> eh? [23:12:04] <nrubsig> Who own's opensolaris-code at opensolaris dot org, e.g. who are the project lead ? [23:12:18] <richlowe> the opensolaris-* lists aren't associated with any project or community. [23:12:31] <richlowe> so, uh, whoever you can find, depending on what the actual problem is. [23:12:59] <nrubsig> richlowe: pre-pre-pre-review of shell style guide [23:13:16] <richlowe> that'd be something for one of the ON lists. [23:13:17] <richlowe> which don't exist. [23:13:21] <richlowe> so have fun with that. :) [23:16:01] *** Vorbis_w39 has quit IRC [23:16:08] *** SirFunk has joined #opensolaris [23:20:33] <wesolows> No, if it's to be meaningful as a style guide it should apply to all consolidations, not just ON. [23:21:06] <richlowe> I was meaning regarding sources of expertise to review it. [23:21:07] <wesolows> If your only objective is to get the ON C-team to endorse it, then yes it's ON, but I see no reason to stop there. [23:21:12] <richlowe> since Roland appeared to be looking for an individual. [23:23:26] <flyingparchment> new internet meme from Veritas: Surprise patch installation! [23:25:37] <alanc> I thought microsoft started that meme with their latest stealth patch to Windows Update to even customers with auto-update disabled [23:27:31] <jbk> uugh.. don't get me started on veritas & patching :) [23:28:04] * PerterB taunts jbk with a vxvm 3.1 crash dump [23:29:39] <nrubsig> richlowe: well, an individual may be nice for now since much of the style guide is about... erm... style... which means everyone will be hyperbitching around about TAB vs. space vs. NBSP etc. [23:30:07] <wesolows> In most cases, things like tabbing and continuation lines should just match cstyle [23:30:10] <cmihai> What's this, python reloaded? :-) [23:30:57] <nrubsig> wesolows: yes, except line continuation doesn't work for all types of strings in a shell script. for exampke $'...' doesn't support continuation nor does $"..." support it. [23:31:02] *** dclarke has joined #opensolaris [23:31:25] <wesolows> nrubsig: sure, but that doesn't affect how continuation should be styled where it is supported. Right? [23:31:48] * dclarke falls in [23:32:03] <nrubsig> wesolows: right. My point is only that something like "script-must-fix-into-80-columns" is a bad thing and should not be enforced at all costs. [23:32:13] <PerterB> au contraire [23:32:25] <wesolows> No. Script lines must be no more than 80 columns. [23:32:32] * PerterB nods [23:32:35] <nrubsig> groan [23:32:44] <wesolows> Exceptions should be made only when there is no syntactically correct equivalent expression that fits into 80 characters. [23:33:06] * dclarke raises hand [23:33:39] <dclarke> anyone there on the swan ? [23:33:46] <wesolows> Sure [23:33:49] * nrubsig is riding one... [23:34:07] <dclarke> if so .. can you see ( resolve and or reach ) www.blastwave.org ? [23:34:48] <nrubsig> dclarke: www.blastwave.org ..." ... Now 0WNED BY H0XT0R!! ..." ? [23:34:53] <wesolows> hmm, I have SWAN access but my browser doesn't go through the SWAN to get to Internet sites. [23:35:00] <wesolows> so that's hard to answer. [23:35:23] <nrubsig> dclarke: I can ping and reach it... [23:35:38] <nrubsig> dclarke: and the content looks normal, too. [23:35:39] <dclarke> okay .. so my ipf config is not totally borked then [23:35:47] <dclarke> yet [23:36:21] <coffman> nrubsig: you go to the tech days in frankfurt? [23:37:49] <dclarke> question : is this just redundant and worthless ? http://rafb.net/p/7NIAgx56.html [23:37:56] <alanc> looks fine for me from inside the swan [23:38:32] <dclarke> there is one cisco pix proxy thing banging the hell out of the site again [23:38:35] <sommerfeld> nrubsig: IMHO effort spent arguing about coding conventions is largely wasted. [23:38:41] <dclarke> gotta block that puppy [23:38:55] <coffman> omg, i have the same thing with a rtls on my laptop, but its some time ago i booted in windows :P [23:39:23] <coffman> old rule, you got a problem? restart the system. still got one - hard power cycle [23:39:42] <wesolows> reboot, retry, reinstall: the 3 Rs of debugging with Windows [23:39:55] <dclarke> I choose to not use Windows [23:40:07] <wesolows> good choice dclarke [23:40:09] <dclarke> I have snv_something here and it works fine [23:40:28] * wesolows lobs some mortars in libtool's direction [23:40:47] <coffman> in this days, windows seems not the badest choice for a desktop... [23:41:08] <dclarke> libtool can not be killed nor negotiated with .. in the end .. the modern world will collapse because of such all pervasive evil [23:41:09] * sommerfeld thinks wesolows would have better results with a few JDAMs [23:41:38] <wesolows> nifty [23:41:59] <cmihai> sommerfeld, as in a smart bomb? [23:42:02] <dclarke> wesolows : I tried Vista : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/?q=node/80 and I just "don't get it" [23:42:10] <wesolows> looks expensive though [23:42:15] <dclarke> really .. its not at all reasonable to use [23:42:41] <cmihai> dclarke, you are wrong :P [23:42:44] <dclarke> install Vista on AMD64 to get a *really* expensive calculator [23:42:53] <cmihai> dclarke, you can get OpenSSH in Vista from Microsoft :_) [23:42:55] <wesolows> It's not really made to be used, just as the stuff sold by McDonald's isn't really meant to be eaten. It's meant to help a corporation take money from stupid people. [23:43:17] <cmihai> Vista Enterprise and Ultimate support it though, not Business ;-] [23:43:20] <dclarke> wesolows: my task was to test CATIA on Vista 64-bit [23:44:03] <dclarke> wesolows: thus far .. I am just trying to understand *why* it will not allow me to change the ip address of a simple network interface .. its just nuts to use [23:44:27] <dclarke> anyways .. I shut it down ... [23:44:33] <dclarke> am back to snv_70 atm [23:44:44] <dclarke> where at least I get pretty much everything I need [23:44:50] <sommerfeld> cmihai: yes. (gps-guided smart bomb. much more accurate than a mortar. something which concerns me since, last I checked, FSF HQ was relatively close to places I frequent ;-) [23:45:09] <cmihai> lol [23:45:48] <cmihai> Yeah, I've played F-22 Raptor like 10 years ago ;-) [23:45:56] <dclarke> if anyone cares to .. they can make this http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/images/vista_business_64_000.jpg the desktop background on their Solaris box .. I did and it really looks weird [23:46:29] <cmihai> That's a pretty crappy experience index for that box [23:46:56] <dclarke> really ? [23:47:01] <cmihai> I get 5.3 on my laptop... [23:47:02] <dclarke> I thought that was top notch ? [23:47:13] <dclarke> then again .. whadd-do-I-know [23:47:13] *** comay has joined #opensolaris [23:47:35] <cmihai> What was the lowest scoring component? [23:47:42] <nrubsig> Does anyone know whether Mike Sharpio is around ? [23:47:51] <cmihai> Oh, it's dragged down by the CPU [23:48:02] <dclarke> cmihai : the lowest score is what you get [23:48:11] <dclarke> I have a machine here that gets a 1 [23:48:14] <cmihai> http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/images/vista_business_64_001.jpg - yeah, the CPU blows, the other stuff rocks. [23:50:51] <FireflyST> I'm going to attempt to compile Silverlight on opensolaris this weekend [23:51:05] <cmihai> That should be fun. [23:51:45] <cmihai> How is mono on Solaris anyway? [23:52:01] <FireflyST> no clue [23:52:12] <FireflyST> going to try all of it this weekend [23:52:17] <PerterB> "impossible to build", last time I tried, but that was a couple of years ago [23:52:19] <FireflyST> there doesn't seem to be any word on it [23:52:35] <FireflyST> it could have been cleaned up by now [23:52:42] <PerterB> one can only hope [23:53:28] *** mikefut has quit IRC [23:53:33] <cmihai> Still, the idea of running Microsoft's flash on Solaris... sounds... odd. [23:53:44] <FireflyST> I have a reason for it actually [23:53:56] <FireflyST> you could kinda sorta say I actually need it [23:54:06] <cmihai> You do? [23:54:09] <FireflyST> yep [23:54:16] <cmihai> Why, nobody even uses it yet [23:54:17] <FireflyST> there's a site I spend a bt of time on daily [23:54:26] <cmihai> Oh [23:54:27] <FireflyST> that will be moving to Silverlight in the next few months [23:54:30] <cmihai> microsoft.com? :P [23:54:32] <FireflyST> no [23:54:38] <FireflyST> wwe.com, I'm into wrestling [23:55:02] <cmihai> Oh, you're a nutcase. That explains a lot. [23:55:13] <FireflyST> haha [23:55:17] <FireflyST> you could say that [23:55:34] <coffman> vista is crap, xp works oki for me [23:55:38] *** sponix has quit IRC [23:55:39] <flyingparchment> i thought wwe was a form of dancing, not wrestling [23:55:40] <g4lt-sb100> you actually pronounce it with an E?! I didn't know they made people like that ;P [23:56:04] <nrubsig> coffman: well, you're forced to vista when you want to use DirectX 10 games [23:56:22] <FireflyST> I have a vista partition on my OpenSolaris machine [23:56:52] <FireflyST> I don't really care [23:57:11] <cmihai> Meh, Vista ain't so bad once you get used to it. Still, not a valid reason to upgrade from XP.. there are virtually no DX 10 games yet anyway [23:57:32] <dclarke> http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/mono [23:57:40] <FireflyST> my laptop that I bought for Solaris came with Vista, which is fine because I need some sort of Windows to use my AS/400 apps [23:57:56] <coffman> nrubsig: well, there are ways to play them on xp, and i dont know any directx 10 only game that mathers atm [23:57:59] <FireflyST> hah, so apparently it does work [23:58:01] <sommerfeld> flyingparchment: it's theater for space aliens. that's why there's a wrestling show on sci fi channel now. [23:58:02] <coffman> nrubsig: quakewars ftw [23:58:47] <cmihai> coffman, you mean stuff like Halo and Shadowrun? They've been hacked to work on XP, not just Vista [23:59:13] <dclarke> has anyone ever seen Beagle actually work ? http://www.mono-project.com/Image:Beagle2.png [23:59:33] *** libkeiser has quit IRC [23:59:35] <FireflyST> nah, wrestling is fun stuff if you like things athat are over the top [23:59:50] <cmihai> dclarke, yeah, but it breaks easily.