[00:01:01] * jmcp saunters in
[00:01:04] <jmcp> good morning all
[00:01:54] <jbk> hello
[00:02:39] <jmcp> jbk: I did a full nightly with your mods on my netra t1 - took 33 and a half hours!
[00:02:46] * jmcp mutters
[00:04:07] <jbk> ouch :(
[00:04:19] <richlowe> jmcp: did you run lint?
[00:04:33] <jbk> i'm debating trying to resurrect the thread about improving building ON
[00:04:38] <richlowe> (that sounds actually pretty good, on a t1-105, assuming lint was run)
[00:04:41] <richlowe> jbk: the speed thread?
[00:04:48] <jbk> it sounds like someone had done some preliminary work back in march
[00:04:52] <richlowe> jbk: sasha is still working on that, I believe.
[00:04:53] <jmcp> richlowe: yes
[00:05:01] <jbk> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=26927&tstart=0
[00:05:08] <jmcp> jbk: we need it
[00:05:11] <richlowe> jmcp: Yeah, it used to be a whole lot suckier, before lint got fixed.
[00:05:16] <jbk> basically make it so there's 1 dmake and that's it
[00:05:33] <jbk> i built on last night on this machine (2 hours)
[00:05:40] <jbk> and it seemed like there was a lot of room for improvement
[00:05:47] <turnip> iproute2 is the package
[00:06:00] <jbk> jmcp: any issues come up from the build I need to address?
[00:06:11] <richlowe> jbk: there's far easier scope for improvement.
[00:06:16] <richlowe> a lot of the build is needlessly .WAITy
[00:06:25] <jmcp> jbk: I don't think so
[00:06:28] <richlowe> so assuming a decently sized machine, just fixing that would be beneficial
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[00:08:54] <jbk> well i liked that the solution david marker was working on basically allowed for any combination of variations (debug/non-debug, gnu/studio, and if using nfs + multiple servers, can do i386 + sparc all simultaneously from one dmake invocation
[00:09:13] <jmcp> yes
[00:09:16] <jmcp> me too
[00:09:16] <richlowe> invasive though, but yes.
[00:09:26] <richlowe> frankly, I think even being more conservative would still help a whole lot.
[00:10:19] <jbk> well i think someone suggested (would have to dig through the thread) it could start at the 'bottom' of the tree (i.e. do individual components), and start building up so the rest of the stuff can use the existing mechanisms
[00:10:54] <jmcp> what I found bizarre was that occasionally  dmake would fail
[00:11:00] <jmcp> on this single-cpu system
[00:11:03] <jmcp> no cores generated though
[00:11:30] <richlowe> jmcp: did you ^C a build in that workspace previously?
[00:11:37] <jmcp> no
[00:11:44] <richlowe> jmcp: I recall an issue where a corrupted .make.state would make dmake crap itself
[00:13:20] <jmcp> this was the first build in a freshly brought-over workspace
[00:13:26] <richlowe> bugger.
[00:13:29] <jmcp> yeah
[00:13:43] <richlowe> stop breaking things in ways that don't have easy and already-known workarounds.
[00:13:46] <richlowe> that's my advice.
[00:13:55] <jmcp> fair enough
[00:16:56] <jmcp> so .... we've got 6364 instances of Makefile* in onnv
[00:17:06] <jmcp> about 1000 less than I thought
[00:17:08] <jmcp> yay
[00:18:55] <jbk> still seems like a lot :)
[00:19:30] <richlowe> like, 12% of total files?
[00:19:31] <richlowe> maybe?
[00:19:38] <richlowe> though I maybe off by a factor of 10 on file count, it's from memory.
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[00:20:16] <richlowe> (and I added a random guess to account for usr/closed, which could be off by who knows how much)
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[00:21:46] <jbk> well for the public source, makefiles are 15% of the total files (just checked)
[00:21:52] <jbk> from a pulldown earlier this weekend
[00:22:24] <richlowe> I'd bet that's mostly because of the layout of cmd/ and the way the uts/ build works
[00:22:32] <DoYouKnow> is that from the original source provided by sun or is it all code from the community project?
[00:23:54] <jmcp> DoYouKnow: from the source provided by Sun
[00:24:19] <DoYouKnow> just curious :)
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[00:25:01] <turnip> no dice, it needs the linux kernel source
[00:27:21] <jmcp> richlowe: I want to have the build system sufficiently fast that building parts of the tree that you don't actually need is sufficiently cheap as to be a non-issue
[00:27:55] <jmcp> so if I really just want usr/src/uts built, then building usr/src/lib won't make me grumble .... too much
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[00:30:14] <turnip> dladm and nettr are the only supported etherchannel applications correct ?
[00:30:32] <jmcp> wtf is etherchannel?
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[00:37:07] <richlowe> jmcp: aside from only building the bit you want anyway?
[00:37:18] <jmcp> yeah
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[00:55:25] <Atomdrache> I've got an old sun4c machine whose Open Boot settings get all weird whenever I cycle power.  It goes into diagnostic mode and sets boot_device=net.  I suspect tha the QFE card somebody put in it that I don't use is pissing it off, but I'm not sure.  This isn't really a Solaris question, but does anybody know how to fix it?
[00:55:48] <jmcp> Atomdrache: are you sure that it isn't just that your OBP's battery is r00ted ?
[00:56:22] <Atomdrache> I replaced the battery.
[00:56:51] <Atomdrache> That was a problem before, but when it had no battery voltage it refused to even boot.
[00:57:38] <jmcp> hmm
[00:57:41] <jmcp> dunno, sorry
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[00:59:04] <Atomdrache> Would it be possible that the QFE card makes it freak out and reset some things to defaults?
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[00:59:40] <jmcp> it is possible
[00:59:47] <jmcp> what is your sun4c machine?
[00:59:53] <Atomdrache> An IPX.
[00:59:54] <jmcp> I'll check the handbook
[00:59:54] <jmcp> ok
[01:00:15] <Atomdrache> I should probably open it up, get rid of the QFE card, and set the hard drive to a not weird SCSI ID while I'm at it.
[01:00:45] <jmcp> what scsi id is it set to?
[01:01:01] <Atomdrache> I don't quite remember.  But it should probably be zero.
[01:01:02] <Atomdrache> ...I think.
[01:01:28] <jmcp> heh .. the sun4c range have their own handbook
[01:01:39] <Tpenta> i thought on a 4c, the host was 7
[01:01:45] <Atomdrache> Wait, no, it is zero.  But that's apparently disk3.
[01:01:49] <Atomdrache> Yeah, maybe it should be 7.
[01:01:58] <Atomdrache> I've got the manual around.  I'll take a look at it.
[01:02:11] <Tpenta> it really shouldnt matter as long as it is uniqu
[01:02:24] <jmcp> I'm almost 100% confident that the qfe just isn't supported in any sun4c system
[01:02:40] <jamesd> i would guess that my  cellphone is more powerful than the ipx...  best to dump it and get a sun ultra 2 ... its a better use of your time.
[01:03:02] <jmcp> provides more support for the 24" lcd ....
[01:03:10] <jmcp> Tpenta: how was your island escape?
[01:04:51] <jmcp> Atomdrache: the qfe isn't supported at all in any sun4c system
[01:05:07] <jmcp> you could look out for a SQEC/S quad ethernet controller, 501-2062
[01:06:04] * jamesd 's ipx does a very useful, and could said to be an  enterprise production use, its a TV stand for our bedroom TV.
[01:07:15] <jamesd> perhaps i should get another one, and install clustering software, if one fails the wifey would be very pissed.
[01:08:40] <Atomdrache> Looks like the internal disk should be ID 3.
[01:08:43] <Atomdrache> I had it at ID 0,
[01:08:49] <Atomdrache> which is intended for the third external disk.
[01:09:07] <Atomdrache> It doesn't really need the QFE.
[01:09:17] <Atomdrache> I've got an ethernet transceiver on the AUI port.
[01:11:07] <Atomdrache> Only thing that card's really doing is covering up a hole in the sbus slots on the back.  I should probably find a filler panel for that.
[01:11:15] <Atomdrache> I could just put some duct tape over that, but that'd be kind of barbaric.
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[01:13:00] <Atomdrache> I can tell the guy who had it before never tried to boot it.  Otherwise he wouldn't have put those things in there.
[01:13:40] <jamesd> Atomdrache, are you sure its a  qfe and not just a qe card?
[01:14:20] <Atomdrache> Yes.  That's what OBP says.
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[01:16:05] <Atomdrache> In any case, it really has no good reason to be there.  I ought to try to find a filler panel--and I'm fairly sure there must be at least two around here somewhere.
[01:17:12] <Atomdrache> There it is.  Time to get rid of that bastard card.
[01:18:36] <jmcp> jbk: three undefined symbols: __iob and fprintf in dis_sparc, and mdb_iob_vsnprintf in dis_sparc_fmt
[01:18:37] <jmcp> that's from nightly
[01:19:05] <jmcp> when compiling linktest_stand.c
[01:19:23] <richlowe> linktest is mdb magic to make sure kmdb doesn't rely on symbols it won't have.
[01:19:31] <richlowe> (and the kmods too, I think)
[01:19:59] <richlowe> possible dis does the same thing, I guess.
[01:20:49] <jbk> hmm..
[01:20:52] <johnlev> afternoon.
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[01:21:59] <jbk> send me that in an email, i'll try to figure out what it's doing -- when DIS_STANDALONE is set (which I believe should be done during the kmdb build), stderr & the fprintf stuff shouldn't be compiled in -- that was strictly for the .so version
[01:22:29] <jmcp> I'll put the nightly output in
[01:22:32] <jbk> i need to run to the store real quick and get some food :)
[01:22:33] <jbk> ok
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[01:31:51] <hohum_> how do I load and unload a kernel module
[01:33:16] <nachox> modload
[01:33:34] <nachox> and modunload
[01:34:04] <nachox> modinfo will show you what's loaded
[01:34:17] <hohum_> thanks
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[01:37:16] <hohum_> where are modules located by default?  I think I need to go load sctp
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[01:40:01] <jmcp> hohum_: under /kernel, or /platform, or /usr/kernel
[01:40:20] <hohum_> thanks
[01:40:25] <nachox> you should not need to load anything btw
[01:40:42] <nachox> solaris will load them when it needs them
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[01:42:29] <jmcp> hohum_: I don' t use sctp as far as I know, but it's loaded on my system
[01:43:02] <nachox> check with netstat? :)
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[01:52:41] <Atomdrache> Well that fixed it.
[01:53:04] <Atomdrache> Pulled out the QFE card and gave the hard drive SCSI ID 3.  That made it happy.
[01:54:40] <jamesd> how much did this ipx cost?
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[01:58:59] <Atomdrache> $0.
[01:59:22] <Atomdrache> And I will consider the two free Sbus QFE cards a bonus, even if they're no good in an IPX.
[02:00:04] <Atomdrache> Some guy at the computer center on campus was interested in playing with it, but too lazy to remove the NVRAM battery and attach a little lithium cell.
[02:00:12] <Atomdrache> So I did that and got a free IPX.
[02:00:51] <jamesd> nice
[02:01:15] <jamesd> i was just worried you bought one off ebay... and paid more than $1 and $10 shipping, and even that is over paying.
[02:01:18] <dlg> mmmqfe
[02:01:20] <Atomdrache> People not wanting various old Sun hardware anymore accounts for a significant fraction of my machines :3
[02:01:39] <Atomdrache> I've only paid for three, and one of those was to cover the cost of gasoline for some guy who hauled it out of a Sandia Labs auction.
[02:02:01] <Atomdrache> (and realized that he didn't need another end table)
[02:02:04] <jamesd> dlg, i just got done installing a qfe on my u2...
[02:02:19] <dlg> i ran a qfe in my ipx as a firewall for a long time
[02:02:57] <Atomdrache> Mine really didn't like the QFEs that came with it.  I had to pull one out just to get it to boot.  I removed the other to make it stop complaining of dictionary overflows when I scanned the sbus.
[02:03:04] <Atomdrache> I don't even know what that is, but it probably wasn't good.
[02:04:03] <Atomdrache> Cards might've been crap too.  But they apparently don't like sharing the sbus on slower sparcv7 machines.
[02:04:07] <Atomdrache> (so I hear)
[02:04:35] * dlg shrug
[02:04:46] <dlg> i had an sbus to pcmcia bridge in mine too
[02:04:49] <dlg> but didnt run anything in it
[02:05:10] <jamesd> i have a pcmcia card, but never plugged anything into it either.
[02:07:33] <hohum_> *sigh* where is the "make" command located after you install Sun Studio
[02:08:01] <jmcp> hohum_: it's in /usr/bin/make, or if you want parallel, /opt/SUNWspro/bin/dmake
[02:08:20] <hohum_> # make
[02:08:20] <hohum_> bash: make: command not found
[02:08:30] <jmcp> hohum_: echo $PATH
[02:08:37] <hohum_> # /usr/bin/make
[02:08:38] <hohum_> bash: /usr/bin/make: No such file or directory
[02:08:45] <jmcp> try /usr/ccs/bin/make
[02:08:48] <hohum_> # echo $PATH
[02:10:43] <nachox> there is always gmake under /usr/sfw, dmake is cooler though
[02:10:59] <jmcp> hohum_: dmake uses Sun's make syntax, gmake ... not so much
[02:11:31] <nachox> nod
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[02:23:45] <jbk> jmcp: how difficult is if if I give you a diff against that workspace you used to retry just doing the library again?
[02:24:08] <richlowe> trivial, or should be
[02:24:38] <jmcp> jbk: should be easy enough
[02:24:47] <jmcp> richlowe: that test rebuild is still grinding away ....
[02:25:02] <richlowe> jmcp: yeah, it's going to take quite a bit longer than I'd expected.
[02:25:21] <jmcp> ... and this is on my us-iie as welll
[02:25:34] <richlowe> jmcp: I'd ^C it, frankly, but be sure to not let it eat a .make.state on the way down :)
[02:25:58] <jmcp> heh
[02:26:41] <hohum_> when creating a kernel module do I need to link to anything specific?
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[02:27:09] <jbk> lemme fix some cstyle issues with the header files as well..
[02:27:12] <jmcp> ok
[02:27:29] <richlowe> jbk: fix the makefile bit too. :)
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[02:28:01] <jbk> ?
[02:28:17] <jbk> i just did the fixes (I think) for the linkstand issues
[02:29:40] <jmcp> ok
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[02:37:57] <jbk> jmcp: ok sent you an updated diff that should hopefully take care of the issues
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[02:39:44] <jmcp> ta
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[02:44:54] <jbk> so it appears gnome applications don't (by default) leave core files when they crash.. is there an easy way to change that? I'd like to figure out why there're flaky on b72 -- it seems to be in enough places that I suspect it's in some common library
[02:46:20] <jmcp> do you have global coredumps setup?
[02:46:35] <jbk> no
[02:47:12] <jbk> but i suspect they are doing some sort of ulimit setting or such -- i would expect even in a default setting (otherwise) to have 'core' in my homedir of the most recent one
[02:47:16] <jbk> but don't even get that
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[02:52:12] <Tempt> Hmm, anyone seen something like this before?
[02:52:20] <Tempt> Sep  7 16:20:17 eris ^Mpanic[cpu27]/thread=3018f2c6000:
[02:52:23] <Tempt> Sep  7 16:20:17 eris unix: [ID 587006 kern.notice] hypervisor call 0x21 returned an unexpected error 2
[02:52:30] <Tempt> Sep  7 16:20:17 eris genunix: [ID 723222 kern.notice] 000002a10abcb8e0 unix:sfmmu_tsbmiss_exception+11c (2a10abcba40, ffffffff7fffc001, 10220, 0, 60014de3bb0
[02:52:33] <Tempt> , 60014de3c50)
[02:52:49] <elektronkind> throw apples at it
[02:52:52] <nachox> t2000 and an ldom?
[02:52:53] <Tempt> For some reason I didn't end up with anything in /var/crash, so I can't really log a fault for it.
[02:52:59] <Tempt> T2000, yes. LDOMs, no.
[02:53:20] <Tempt> (although I figure everything goes through the hypervisor anyway)
[02:54:13] <nachox> hmm, i thought it would go through the hypervisor only if you had ldoms configured, learn something new everyday
[02:55:12] <jbk> i suspect it probably by default creates 1 ldom for everything
[02:55:29] <jbk> just prior to the mgmt software being released, you couldn't change it
[02:55:52] <nachox> but there wasnt a firmware at first that exposed it
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[02:59:20] <jbk> if a friend of mine unidles, i can ask him
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[03:10:41] <jmcp> richlowe: just as a fr'instance, we've got a whole heap of makefile rules like     objs/%.o ....  - what do you think about changing those to be objs$(ARCH)/%.o
[03:11:06] <jmcp> or $(TARGET_ARCH), rather
[03:11:17] <jmcp> or even $(HOST_ARCH)
[03:11:18] <jmcp> whatever
[03:14:17] <jbk> hmm interesting.. sun studio + compiz don't get along
[03:14:53] <jmcp> jbk: when you run make in usr/src/lib/libdisasm, did you see any reference to a sparcv9 directory?
[03:16:30] <richlowe> heh, that's probably my fault.
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[03:17:48] <jbk> yeah.. we weren't sure about that bit :)
[03:17:57] <jamesbrink__> is there install instructions for buidl 66?
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[03:18:24] <richlowe> though, wouldn't you need a sparcv9/ either way?
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[03:22:20] <jbk> jmcp: try backing out the change to usr/src/lib/libdisasm/Makefile
[03:22:40] <jbk> that will hopefully fix it
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[03:26:27] <jdavis_> In the ZFS docs, there's an example of "promoting a zfs clone". Is there a way to switch the filesystem at a certain mount point atomically?
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[03:30:00] <jbk> does the current closed bits build a 64-bit libdisasm.so ?
[03:30:03] <jbk> err do?
[03:30:49] <nachox> jdavis_, http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-5461/6n7ht6qsb?a=view
[03:31:04] <richlowe> jbk: Yes
[03:31:22] <nachox> jdavis_, ohh, nm, i half read what you asked :P
[03:31:34] <nachox> it's sunday night, it happens
[03:31:55] <jdavis_> nachox: basically, the example I see is interesting, but is there a way to eliminate the window between the two renames?
[03:31:59] <jbk> ahh ok.. so i wonder if i just need to create a sparcv9 directory w/ just a makefile then
[03:32:47] <richlowe> at the basic level, pretty much.
[03:33:17] <jdavis_> nachox: the example I'm looking at is example 10 in the zfs man page.
[03:35:23] <nachox> jdavis_, maybe you should explain what the real problem is first?
[03:36:46] <jdavis_> nachox: I'm trying to learn ZFS is all. In the example they show, let's say that you're serving files out of that location, then those files would be inaccessible after the first rename and before the second.
[03:37:01] <jbk> jmcp: what should work is just mkdir sparcv9; cp amd64/Makefile sparcv9  (there's nothing ISA-specific in it -- it's all done in terms of macros)
[03:37:12] <jmcp> yeah, just figured that one :)
[03:40:56] <nachox> damn docs.sun.com, it is back at its usual broken state
[03:41:11] <bda> Should just trickle mirror it. :)
[03:41:23] <jdavis_> nachox: I noticed
[03:42:13] <nachox> sometimes i wonder if they break it just to make you download the documentation cd
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[03:57:35] <richlowe> nachox: I always figured it was the whole make money on support thing.
[03:58:26] <nachox> nah, that leads to unusable documentation, that works for redhat
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[04:01:59] <nachox> instead the documentation team at sun is fast and responsibe... or has been the last 3 times a approached them, they have an infrastructure problem
[04:03:56] <Gman> yo comay
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[04:05:36] <comay> hey glynn
[04:06:09] <jbk> gman: gnome question if you have a sec
[04:06:18] <richlowe> jbk: Yes, it really is that bad.
[04:06:23] <richlowe> (there are other questions?)
[04:06:30] <Gman> jbk, sure, what's up?
[04:06:40] * Gman kicks richlowe in the pants
[04:07:26] <jmcp> hi Gman , johnlev
[04:07:31] <jmcp> hi comay
[04:07:36] <Gman> 'lo jmcp
[04:07:38] <johnlev> hey jmcp
[04:07:43] <richlowe> johnlev: evenin(?)
[04:07:46] <jbk> well i'm using the b72 dvd, and it seems like several of the gnome pieces crash on startup (some multiple times) -- is there an easy way to debug -- it has a feeling of being perhaps a common library
[04:07:48] <comay> yo jmcp
[04:07:54] <jbk> or is there a known issue?
[04:08:01] <richlowe> jbk: did you try the fc-cache stuff?
[04:08:12] <Gman> yeah, sounds most likely
[04:08:13] <johnlev> richlowe: yes.
[04:08:16] <johnlev> richlowe: in a way.
[04:08:19] <jbk> no, i'm not sure what you're referring to
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[04:10:15] <jbk> also: http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/689457
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[04:10:29] <jbk> sounds like a .pc file is missing (x11.pc ?!?)
[04:10:45] <Gman> the latter is a known bug
[04:11:23] <Triskelios> uh... is SDLC broken? it keeps taking me to the catalog page when I request SXCE
[04:11:41] <Gman> jbk, http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=149644
[04:11:57] <Gman> jbk, what's the backtrace on your crashers like?
[04:12:02] <richlowe> jbk: that's alanc's fault.
[04:12:27] <richlowe> xrender.pc (or xft.pc?) depends on x11.pc, which isn't delivered.
[04:12:38] <jbk> Gman: nothing is being generated
[04:12:50] <richlowe> jbk: http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do?bug_id=6571762
[04:13:00] <jbk> is there a setting (aside from doing coreadm) to force coredumps?
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[04:14:16] <jmcp> jbk: .... and add the C99 stuff to the end of sparcv9/Makefile :-)
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[04:15:51] <Gman> jbk, it should do already, unless you've got bugbuddy installed and it's trying to go through taht
[04:16:36] <jbk> AFAIK, I don't
[04:17:06] <jbk> this is a straight install from SXCE 72
[04:17:45] * Gman unfortunately is several releases behind
[04:18:02] <jmcp> Gman: tsk tsk .. *builds* not releases
[04:18:03] <jmcp> duh
[04:18:43] * Gman rolls eyes
[04:19:51] <richlowe> jmcp: he's in marketing now.
[04:19:56] <jmcp> ah, that's right
[04:20:02] * jmcp watches gman morph
[04:20:03] <richlowe> jmcp: creative imprecision is part of his job description.
[04:21:02] <jmcp> muahahahahaha
[04:21:30] <Gman> call it what you like, i'm several of them behind
[04:21:39] <jmcp> so am I, really
[04:22:08] <jbk> so what is that script that will create solaris packages using spec files? pkgbuild?
[04:22:28] <Gman> yeah, or pkgtool
[04:31:28] <Tpenta> hi folks
[04:32:24] <jmcp> hi Tpenta
[04:32:45] <Tpenta> james
[04:44:59] <nachox> Gman, mind adding stephens latest blog to indiana packaging web page? :)
[04:45:28] <Gman> nachox, absolutely, meant to do it
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[04:50:00] * Gman didn't quite grok the latest blog posting
[04:50:55] <nachox> it got me interested
[04:51:25] <Gman> oh dear
[04:51:27] <richlowe> Gman: jds don't have much in the way of class-action scripts.
[04:51:28] <richlowe> and related.
[04:51:29] <comay> what parts gman?
[04:51:30] <Gman> opensolaris.org is borked
[04:51:37] <Gman> richlowe, we have a few i think
[04:51:46] <richlowe> Gman: yeah, you borrowed most of them from elsewhere though.
[04:51:47] <richlowe> same as SFW
[04:51:54] <richlowe> I talked to laca about that a month or two back
[04:51:56] <nachox> what part is broken?
[04:52:12] <richlowe> I really want to see us deliver the useful ones, rather than having N slightly different, kinda out-of-date copies.
[04:52:25] <richlowe> but sch's solution is better :)
[04:52:48] <richlowe> nachox: Yeah, I can't figure that out either.
[04:52:52] <Gman> updatePage is crashing
[04:52:58] <richlowe> Oh, well.
[04:53:10] <nachox> i dont actually know what his solution is atm, i dont think even he knows at this point either
[04:53:23] <richlowe> nachox: the goal appears to be get them out of packaging.
[04:53:29] <richlowe> so you don't have the multitude of runtime environments.
[04:53:35] <Gman> org.opensolaris.base.exception.ObjectNotFoundException: The page with ID 0 was not found.
[04:53:42] <nachox> to get the class action scripts out? yes
[04:53:49] <richlowe> (right now the scripts need to run on release-2)
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[04:54:20] <nachox> but as i asked in his blog, his new approach seems to imply that class action scripts only deal with configuration of the services
[04:54:38] <richlowe> largely, they do, for a broad definition of 'services'
[04:54:39] <Gman> comay, i can see the immediate benefits of it, i'm just not sure smf is reducing complexity
[04:54:49] <richlowe> though I see bugs against the OSS integration that suggest far more insidious things.
[04:54:54] <nachox> i cannot think of anything else they do atm but then again i'm not sure if that is the case for everything
[04:55:39] <comay> gman: i think the primary issue is that it's difficult to write a proper package procedure scripts these days
[04:55:45] <richlowe> Gman: compared to the CAS stuff, it is.
[04:56:01] <nachox> the other thing is that atm those scripts ARE doing something usefull, how would you replace that in the new paradigm?
[04:56:48] <richlowe> the others would have the same constraints, but how difficult they are to deal with I guess depends on what they'd be doing.
[04:56:54] <nachox> you cannot SMF every package because not every package is a service in the not broad definition for example
[04:57:08] <richlowe> nachox: you can too things like JDS do with postrun
[04:57:16] <Gman> richlowe, CAS?
[04:57:17] <richlowe> (delay such things to the new system is booting)
[04:57:23] <richlowe> 'to when the...'
[04:57:33] <jmcp> class action script
[04:57:59] <nachox> richlowe, but you need to restart the system for the changes to commit? that is awfull
[04:58:43] <richlowe> Not sure what JDS do for an in-place install.
[04:58:46] <richlowe> but I'd bet it's wrong. :)
[04:58:55] <richlowe> (at least I can say *that* now without Glynn getting all hurt)
[04:59:01] <Gman> if it's wrong, go file a bug :)
[04:59:15] <Gman> otherwise no speculation from the peanut galleries :)
[04:59:30] <jbk> heh.. that somewhat reminds me of a conversation i was having with a friend of mine
[04:59:53] <jbk> he absolutely loathes smf and feels it's the equivalent of AIX's odm or the windows registry
[05:00:03] <jbk> and what it came down to
[05:00:16] <jbk> was the dependency checks annoy him
[05:00:27] <nachox> well, the thing is that you cannot replace those scripts, or i cannot think of a way to replace them myself, what you can do is move them to another layer
[05:00:32] <jbk> i pointed out they were always there, just never formalized, if wrong, go file a bug :)
[05:01:16] <Gman> nachox, which maybe is the ok thing to do
[05:01:30] * Stric will have to try to escalate 6386177 once again, which is an annoying thing with smf..
[05:01:31] <jbk> well what do the scripts do?
[05:01:53] <jbk> a lot of them are to manipulate system files (/etc/services, /etc/inetd.conf)
[05:02:51] <jbk> i could see if there's a facility to include the information 'add ssh 22/tcp to /etc/services' or 'add this manifest', that would solve a lot of the stuff
[05:02:51] <nachox> Gman, yes but that fails to fix the second goal of the new paradigm, since you still need to write those scripts how does packaging becomes easier?
[05:03:06] <Gman> it's easier to write them? :)
[05:03:17] <richlowe> nachox: having to write them such that they function on only one release would be a great help.
[05:03:32] <richlowe> rather than the last 2 and the one in progress.
[05:04:29] <nachox> well, we could provide a framework that defines what is ok and what is not and then export an api, that would do with the opaque thing those scripts are today
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[05:09:25] <comay> nachox: that's part of what the new packaging system provides.  actions to covers things such as all the check_add_drv drivel in the various postinstalls
[05:10:48] <nachox> comay, interesting, but i thought there was nothing actually written but some ideas just yet
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[05:17:28] <Tempt> Wow, iscsi target seems to eat a bit of CPU.
[05:20:04] <tsp> no wonder I had alot of free ram, the number I was getting was the ip address of some website converted to an int
[05:20:15] <Tempt> Haha.
[05:20:17] <Tempt> That's classic.
[05:20:34] <tsp> ah, it was the address of a pointer which stayed the same across several reboots
[05:20:55] <jdavis_> Tempt: what do you think of iscsi? I've heard it's got a lot of overhead. What kind of throughput do you get?
[05:21:35] <tsp> my free ram reporter (a.out) got replaced with the next thing I compiled, which was a test program - at least I wasn't using either of them for anything serious
[05:22:32] <Gman> comay, though it'll be interesting to see how every possible action is covered, unless there's some sort of plugin mechanism for 3rd parties?
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[05:22:56] <Stric> tsp: cunningly named program.. ;)
[05:23:17] <comay> nachox: the set of actions is still under discussion.  the driver one is perhaps the most common one
[05:23:21] <nachox> hehe, having every action possible covered would make the framework useless anyway
[05:23:33] <comay> it should appear in the initial design that sch sends out
[05:25:54] <nachox> i hope it includes things like auditing
[05:26:54] <axisys> anyone setup 6920 as a san?
[05:27:00] <nachox> maybe you can also make it more finegrained by letting some users install packages that dont modify certain things through more rbac profiles
[05:27:14] <axisys> does 6920 offer iscsi ?
[05:29:43] <Tempt> jdavis_: I've only just set it up.
[05:30:07] <Tempt> jdavis_: I'm still playing with it, not using it for anything of any value. I thought I'd write a 5-minute iSCSI doco and stick it online.
[05:30:54] <Tempt> tsp: I guess you'll be discovering the -o option to the compiler pretty soon.
[05:31:19] <jdavis_> Tempt: cool.
[05:31:20] <nachox> lol
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[05:34:53] <DoYouKnow> hi
[05:35:39] <jmcp> gday
[05:36:10] <richlowe> nachox: No, see his blog.
[05:36:15] <richlowe> nachox: they have prototype, etc, etc.
[05:37:06] <nachox> richlowe, from his blog i understood what they had implemented what actually more of a proof of concept
[05:37:15] <richlowe> I'd suggest asking them.
[05:37:53] <Gman> prototype/proof of concept
[05:37:56] <Gman> usually the same thing ;)
[05:37:57] <DoYouKnow> prototype of what?
[05:38:02] <DoYouKnow> some futuristic admin feature?
[05:38:25] <Gman> richlowe, esp for marketing ;)
[05:38:50] <nachox> no, a prototype is something you design once you decided which way to go
[05:39:20] <richlowe> kinda.
[05:39:35] <richlowe> it's sch though, I'd expect a mountain of paper constituting the design by now. :)
[05:39:39] <nachox> it implies some sort of interface too
[05:40:05] * dlg yawn
[05:40:23] <DoYouKnow> is there a graphical frontend to zpool and zfs commands?
[05:40:27] <richlowe> Kinda
[05:40:28] <DoYouKnow> that isn't what you are talking about is it?
[05:40:31] <richlowe> there's some web based thing.
[05:40:36] <Tempt> Man
[05:40:37] <DoYouKnow> oh, right
[05:40:41] <Tempt> There shouldn't be any frontend
[05:40:46] <richlowe> but as with all "web based things", it's probably best to pretend there isn't.
[05:40:48] <Tempt> The commandline is already too easy.
[05:40:51] <richlowe> that's the kind of mess that starts you using smc.
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[05:41:07] <nachox> the web based zfs tool is actually quite nice
[05:41:22] <richlowe> the first hit is free, too. ;)
[05:41:25] <Tempt> Yes, but it doesn't need to be there.
[05:41:32] <lloy0076> If Solaris were as slow as docs.sun.com it would be a totally crap product :(
[05:42:28] <nachox> it does need to be there, it actually makes the life of an admin less a problem
[05:42:31] <jamesd> what is really scarey is that they claim its powered by a sun fire 15k... but i swear its closer to a  ipx or a  ss5 at most.
[05:42:48] <lloy0076> Great and it just gave me a white page.
[05:43:07] <Tempt> If that's powered by a 15k
[05:43:14] <jbk> i wonder if a few t2000s would make a better choice
[05:43:15] <lloy0076> Here I am trying to convince the company I work for to use Sun Directory Server and Communications Server and I can't get to the docs :P
[05:43:18] <Tempt> it'd be the worst marketing they've ever done for the the starfire
[05:43:49] <lloy0076> Ah, it seems they heard me and fixed it. Haha.
[05:43:51] <Tempt> perhaps they're running it on a single uniboard
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[05:46:00] <jmcp> jbk: is there a particular kernel function which you've disassembled that has different output for your mods?
[05:49:21] <jbk> i don't have the list of objects that produced different output (sitting on my test box that's still down unfortunately)
[05:49:28] <jmcp> ok
[05:50:10] <nachox> blame dclarke :)
[05:50:41] <jmcp> jbk: how did you generate the list in the first place?
[05:50:55] <jbk> basically find /usr -type f
[05:51:03] <jmcp> ah :-)
[05:51:10] <jbk> then run through a quick script to weed out anything that wasn't an ELF file
[05:51:16] <jmcp> nod
[05:51:17] <jbk> also added /platform & /kernel
[05:51:28] <jmcp> righto
[05:51:31] <jbk> it was like 6000 files total i think
[05:51:32] * jmcp girds up for a script
[05:51:45] <jbk> i have one if you want
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[05:51:59] <axisys> on a 2x4 (2 controllers and 4 trays) 6920 with 14 disks on each tray if I make 2 raid5 volume (6+1) per tray .. how many IOPS should I expect? the disks are 146G - 10000 RPMs
[05:54:35] <jbk> a decent amount? :)
[05:56:38] <richlowe> jmcp: and avoid acrobat
[05:56:51] <richlowe> or whatever it was that made jbk's stuff explode on dennis
[05:57:03] <jbk> or
[05:57:06] <nachox> as actually crashed the box?
[05:57:09] <jbk> don't demangle C++ names
[05:57:13] <jbk> well
[05:57:27] <jbk> the C++ demangler quickly exhausted the ram on the box
[05:57:34] <jbk> or had a memory leak
[05:57:35] <jbk> not sure which
[05:57:43] <richlowe> filed a bug?
[05:58:04] <jbk> well wasn't sure which it was :)
[05:58:19] <richlowe> well, the fact it happened is a good starting point :)
[05:58:48] <jbk> when the box comes back up, i can try to recreate it
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[06:06:41] <Tempt> hmmm
[06:06:53] <Tempt> instant replication solution? mirror local disk to an iSCSI LUN
[06:07:02] <Tempt> performance might be awful over a wan link, but ...
[06:07:12] <richlowe> would probably be fairly bad in general, I'd think.
[06:07:25] <Tempt> might be okay for low data rate stuff
[06:08:18] <dlg> ugh, c++
[06:09:08] <nachox> dlg, yes, overengineering and lack of design in one place! :P
[06:09:21] * dlg cry
[06:10:52] <dlg> this link is unusable
[06:11:07] <nachox> docs.sun.com? yes
[06:12:01] <dlg> im in a lecture
[06:12:20] <dlg> and the wireless sucks
[06:12:37] <nachox> err, shouldnt you be like paying attention?
[06:13:14] <dlg> why?
[06:13:21] * dlg grin
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[06:14:41] <richlowe> dlg: maybe there's awesome visual C hints you're missing.
[06:14:54] <dlg> that was in the last lecture
[06:14:56] <dlg> this one is about crypto today
[06:15:12] <nachox> because i also go to the university and know how hard it was to catch up every time i lost for example a class of quantum physics?
[06:15:25] <dlg> my secret is to study things i already know
[06:15:32] <nachox> ...
[06:15:50] <dlg> or have half a clue at to start with
[06:16:46] <dlg> which uni are you at?
[06:16:58] <nachox> UBA in buenos aires, Argentina
[06:16:59] <dlg> ah, different country
[06:17:11] <dlg> completely
[06:17:31] * Stric goes to one close to the northern polar circle ;)
[06:18:27] <WickedWicky> good morning
[06:20:25] <nachox> off to sleep, it's 1:20 am and i need to be up in 6 hours
[06:20:36] <nachox> later guys
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[06:29:22] <jbk> hmm
[06:29:27] <jbk> cc: Fatal error in /opt/SUNWspro/prod/bin/acomp
[06:29:28] <jbk> cc: Status 139
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[06:37:05] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig
[06:37:18] <nrubsig> jmcp: ping!
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[06:40:22] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig
[06:40:36] <nrubsig> jmcp: ping!
[06:40:48] * nrubsig tasers jmcp brutally
[06:41:05] <dlg> how rude
[06:41:12] <jmcp> ack
[06:41:12] <Tempt> Man, ever since he got ksh integrated he's been a little crazy.
[06:41:16] * nrubsig switches the taser to "well cooked" mode.
[06:41:31] <flyingparchment> ksh93 got integrated?
[06:43:00] <jbk> yep
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[06:48:31] <theRealballchalk> hi
[06:48:43] <theRealballchalk> whoa look at that taser
[06:49:10] <FireflyST> I'm about to install b72 on my new laptop
[06:49:48] <theRealballchalk> <~~b55 p
[06:51:59] <Triskelios> theRealballchalk: ouch!
[06:52:28] <theRealballchalk> yea doesn't hurt as bad
[06:53:07] <FireflyST> when I boot into the install DVD, should I choose "solaris express" or "solaris express developer edition?"
[06:53:19] <jbk> depends
[06:53:20] <theRealballchalk> waiting for zfs to implement
[06:53:28] <jmcp> depends how much tweaking you want to do in the installation
[06:53:51] <FireflyST> can I upgrade to Developer Edition later?
[06:54:18] <flyingparchment> DE is identical to CE, it just bundles studio
[06:54:22] <theRealballchalk> might as well install DE
[06:54:29] <theRealballchalk> never know what you'll need
[06:54:34] <FireflyST> oh
[06:54:38] <FireflyST> phht
[06:54:41] <FireflyST> ok
[06:54:58] <jbk> however de uses dwarf caiman I believe
[06:55:17] <jbk> which basicalled does fixed slicing
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[06:58:37] <FireflyST> Will this install GRUB if I have a Vista partition?
[06:58:58] <jmcp> yes
[06:59:04] <jmcp> it might even work, too :-)
[06:59:08] <FireflyST> lol
[06:59:58] <flyingparchment> hmm, i guess today is a good day to phone sun reseller again and ask where my quote is
[07:00:08] <jmcp> as good a day as any
[07:00:34] <flyingparchment> in fact today is the 1 month aniversary of requesting the quote ;-)
[07:00:41] * dlg want his quote too
[07:03:37] <FireflyST> quotes for what?
[07:03:52] <jmcp> FireflyST: purchasing Sun kit
[07:04:01] <flyingparchment> solaris support, in this case
[07:04:12] <flyingparchment> maybe they're out of stock ;-D
[07:04:13] <FireflyST> oh, that's what I was asking
[07:04:16] <jmcp> physical and intangible
[07:04:48] <dlg> a noticable chunk of my quote will be that fuzzy licensing thing
[07:04:53] <FireflyST> you're not going to be calling sun for a quote on car parts
[07:06:32] <FireflyST> ok so
[07:06:52] <FireflyST> apparently, SXDE doesn't like me putting Solaris on partition 3
[07:07:19] <FireflyST> I left 80gb of disk for OpenSolaris
[07:07:56] <jmcp> primary or logical/extended partition?
[07:08:38] <FireflyST> Well, I installed Vista first, because it's stupid and would kill a non-Windows parition
[07:08:57] <FireflyST> logical
[07:09:51] <flyingparchment> what do people use for java application servers on solaris nowadays?  is the bundled appserver fine for small/internal stuff?
[07:09:58] <flyingparchment> or should i look at JBoss or something?
[07:10:01] <jmcp> you can't install Solaris or OpenSolaris to a logical partition, it must be a primary partition
[07:10:04] <jmcp> flyingparchment: tomcat
[07:10:06] <jmcp> glassfish
[07:10:36] <WickedWicky> flyingparchment: I use jboss/ websphere at work
[07:10:39] <WickedWicky> at home tomcat
[07:10:48] <FireflyST> so I have to install it to the beginning of the disk?
[07:11:47] <WickedWicky> FireflyST: what matters is that it has to be a primary partition, not a logical/extended
[07:12:30] <flyingparchment> FireflyST: x86 only supports 4 partitions.  these are called 'primary partitions'.  to work around the limitation, it's possible to create a special partition that contains other partitions.  these are called 'extended'/'logical'.
[07:12:43] <FireflyST> ohhhh
[07:12:44] <FireflyST> no
[07:12:52] <FireflyST> it's just the 3rd partition
[07:12:59] <WickedWicky> then it should work
[07:13:04] <FireflyST> I'm not sure what partition 1 is
[07:13:26] <WickedWicky> are you in windows right now?
[07:13:29] <FireflyST> no
[07:13:38] <WickedWicky> Linux?
[07:13:46] <FireflyST> no, the opensolaris installer
[07:13:49] <WickedWicky> oh
[07:13:52] <WickedWicky> okay well
[07:14:00] <WickedWicky> third partition should be just fine
[07:14:07] <FireflyST> sorry, I'm typing on a windows box into a sparc running solaris
[07:14:08] <WickedWicky> I presume you're in that disk layout menu
[07:14:48] <FireflyST> well, SXCE said this, hold on
[07:15:45] * WickedWicky is listening to Kevin Bloody Wilson - She's the sorta shyla for me
[07:17:08] <FireflyST> SXDE does not support changing the partition type when two or more of that type exist on the disk.  Please quit the installer, run fdisk in the terminal window to create the Solaris partition, then restart the installer."
[07:17:33] <WickedWicky> oh great, SXDE installer
[07:18:06] <FireflyST> is that the problem?
[07:18:19] <WickedWicky> you might wanna give the other installer a try, it looks less pretty but the installer you use now didnt work for me either
[07:18:43] <WickedWicky> try to boot, and select the third option
[07:18:58] <WickedWicky> "Opensolaris installer" it's called I believe
[07:19:11] <WickedWicky> I'm in the bus right now so I cant check the precise name
[07:19:41] <FireflyST> There's SXDE, SX, SX Serial ttya, and SX serial ttyb
[07:19:48] <flyingparchment> choose SX
[07:19:52] <WickedWicky> SX
[07:19:59] <WickedWicky> ah yea, Solaris Express
[07:20:34] <WickedWicky> you will be able to create a partition there, with the type Solaris 2
[07:23:09] <FireflyST> huh, wonder why this is so much slower than sxde
[07:24:20] <WickedWicky> probably cause it's loading java ;-)
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[07:27:20] <FireflyST> should I put everything in / ?
[07:27:28] <Berny> morning
[07:27:33] <WickedWicky> you created the partition then?
[07:27:53] <FireflyST> yes
[07:27:58] <WickedWicky> you 'll need swap
[07:28:02] <FireflyST> this is just the standard solaris installer
[07:28:11] <WickedWicky> yes
[07:28:20] <FireflyST> yeah I know, I mean should I make a separate /var etc?
[07:28:37] <WickedWicky> I never do, but the Sun guys might disagree with me
[07:29:04] <FireflyST> ehh, I'm sure it'll be fine
[07:29:17] <WickedWicky> just go for it :)
[07:29:37] <Berny> is "/sbin/biosdev" in nevada different from the one in sol10? i.e. would one expect different behaviour in both versions?
[07:29:54] <FireflyST> how much swap
[07:30:15] <FireflyST> I have 2gb of memory
[07:30:24] <WickedWicky> I always do 2x size of RAM
[07:30:35] <g4lt-sb100> 42
[07:30:38] <jmcp> WickedWicky: that doesn't scale when you've got a sf25k and 512Gb of ram
[07:30:47] <WickedWicky> with a limit of 4096
[07:30:50] <WickedWicky> ;-)
[07:30:59] <WickedWicky> let me finnish my sentences! :P
[07:31:02] <jmcp> no
[07:31:04] <jmcp> :-)
[07:31:09] <jmcp> type faster
[07:31:13] <WickedWicky> it's 7am
[07:31:16] <WickedWicky> I have the day off
[07:31:28] <WickedWicky> I am only awake and heading to work to pick up my Ultra 5
[07:31:39] <WickedWicky> 7:30am even
[07:31:51] * Stric has a machine with 40GB mirrored swap :P
[07:32:08] <WickedWicky> an ex-coworker wanted to get rid of his junk and told me I could have the Ultra 5 for free, if I'd pick it up today
[07:32:13] <FireflyST> so I should put 4096 on it?
[07:32:17] <Berny> ah jmcp, can you answer above question about biosdev?
[07:32:20] <WickedWicky> its what I'd do, yes
[07:32:57] <FireflyST> done, installing now
[07:34:00] <Berny> i opened a ticket on biosdev failing on the x2200m2 mentioned your bug about the u20 bios... got told i should install sol10, biodev in nevada must be broken... :-\
[07:34:01] <WickedWicky> at work we always do 1x RAM for swap, since we dump the entire memory when it panics
[07:34:55] <WickedWicky> so our oracle server has 24GB of swap or something
[07:35:02] <WickedWicky> talk about waste of space :s
[07:35:28] <g4lt-sb100> jmcp, why not have a terabyte of swap? ;P
[07:35:55] <WickedWicky> not sure if you can call your system "in production" when it swaps that much
[07:35:58] <WickedWicky> :p
[07:36:15] <WickedWicky> but hey, if you can...
[07:36:38] <g4lt-sb100> on th contrary, I'd say it does an excellent job of production...of heat
[07:36:39] <nrubsig> g4lt-sb100: AFAIK the maximum physically addressable address space is the maximum for swap, e.g 2^48bytes are the max.
[07:37:17] <g4lt-sb100> nrubsig, well, by definition, 512G's doable then
[07:37:29] <jamesbrink__> is there a list of what NIC chipsets are supported under crossbow
[07:41:48] <jmcp> g4lt-sb100: I'm sure there are cases where you might actually need 1Tb of swap, but those cases in my experience would be few and very far between
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[07:42:40] <g4lt-sb100> jmcp, is bragging rights one of them? ;P
[07:42:46] <jmcp> possibly
[07:43:38] <nrubsig> Does B72 use ZFS for root by default ?
[07:44:09] <FireflyST> is there a pkg-get type setup for OpenSolaris?
[07:44:19] <jmcp> nrubsig: no
[07:44:24] <jmcp> FireflyST: www.blastwave.org
[07:44:50] <FireflyST> ok, so there are opensolaris binaries available fromt here?
[07:44:53] <FireflyST> *there
[07:45:03] <jmcp> yes
[07:45:12] <jmcp> or at least, blastwave.org and mirror sites
[07:46:23] <WickedWicky> dont you just love it when people invoke /bin/sh in their scripts and then use bash functions
[07:46:42] <FireflyST> ugh
[07:46:50] <jmcp> WickedWicky: have you slapped them good+hard yet?
[07:46:55] <FireflyST> I hate that shit
[07:47:11] <FireflyST> I hate bash centric scripts
[07:48:39] <WickedWicky> #! /bin/sh
[07:48:44] <WickedWicky> that's not valid either, is it?
[07:48:53] <flyingparchment> what's not valid aboeut it?
[07:48:58] <WickedWicky> the space?
[07:49:04] <flyingparchment> that's fine
[07:49:17] <flyingparchment> iirc the space was actually required a very long time ago, as "#! /" was the magic number
[07:49:56] <WickedWicky> ahhh, that's where my thinking comes from then, in the Solaris course I took they told me it had to be #!/
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[07:50:26] <WickedWicky> old teacher, might explain it ;-)
[07:51:13] <WickedWicky> oh wait, I read that wrong, the space was required
[07:51:20] <WickedWicky> in the course they told me it had to be #!/
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[07:58:34] <nrubsig> Any idea who owns the automounter these days ?
[07:58:58] <boyd> Tempt: ping
[07:59:10] <WickedWicky> he's gone for a coffee
[07:59:21] <boyd> Bastard... didn't get me one!
[07:59:34] <WickedWicky> my thought
[08:00:19] <nrubsig> dme: any news about the etherbridge project ?
[08:00:40] <Berny> would anyone happen to have a sol10 x86 /sbin/biosdev at hand?
[08:01:19] <flyingparchment> Berny: yep, want one?
[08:01:48] <Berny> yes please...
[08:02:01] <Berny> saves me the download of the dvd i hope
[08:03:10] <flyingparchment> Berny: http://hemlock.ts.wikimedia.org/~river/biosdev
[08:03:14] <dme> nrubsig: What are you after? We agreed to try and ship out an updated version of the bits. The project has a couple of new leaders and RBridges is interested in bridging as well, so perhaps some more will happen.
[08:05:20] <Tempt> boyd: PING
[08:05:31] <WickedWicky> nevermind the ping
[08:05:33] <WickedWicky> coffee is what we want
[08:05:35] <Berny> thanks flyingparchment
[08:05:44] <boyd> Tempt: Yeah, where's my coffee?
[08:05:53] <Tempt> HA!
[08:06:08] <Tempt> check your /msgs
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[08:06:29] <Berny> hmm misbehaves in the same way... think i'll grab the s10x86 dvd and check with that again...maybe one of the nevada libs is broken..
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[08:07:24] <nrubsig> dme: I am wondering whether the etherbridges can be used line a switch/hub network, e.g. to simulate non-managed hubs/switches
[08:08:42] <Tempt> hmm
[08:08:45] <dme> nrubsig: That should work, but it seems expensive unless you have a specific requirement.
[08:08:45] <Tempt> Bridges should be fine
[08:08:50] <Tempt> Consider them a two port switch
[08:09:00] <Tempt> They aren't a model for a hub though.
[08:10:45] <nrubsig> dme: one possible consumer may be qemu and/or stuff like VMware. And more complex zone setups.
[08:11:02] <nrubsig> Tempt: can I have a 8-port switch, too ?
[08:11:02] <WickedWicky> be right back
[08:11:05] <dme> nrubsig: Sure, that's where my own interest lies (originally for Xen).
[08:11:14] <dme> nrubsig: If you have 8 physical ethernet ports, yes.
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[08:11:44] <Tempt> a switch is basically ports bridged to a backplane
[08:11:49] <nrubsig> dme: erm, no, I mean a builtin, "virtual" 8-port ethernet switch.
[08:12:31] <dme> nrubsig: :-) That should work as well. We should get around to implementing the 'tap' device, as it would make things simpler for applications that want to use the bridge.
[08:12:43] <nrubsig> dme: imagine eight VMs connected to that virtual switch and connected nothing else...
[08:13:12] <dme> nrubsig: At the moment our preferred way to do that is with VNICs (though that isn't quite finished yet).
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[08:15:13] <nrubsig> dme: is it possible to make one virtual switch and connect it to a 2nd virtual switch ?
[08:16:07] <dme> nrubsig: With the VNIC code today, no. Perhaps with a combination of the VNIC code and etherbridge...
[08:16:22] <g4lt-sb100> then it'd be a virtual switch samtich
[08:16:30] <nrubsig> dme: can I have multiple independet etherbridge setups ?
[08:17:30] <dme> nrubsig: Yes.
[08:22:45] <richlowe> jmcp: I like how the interest-list tries to protect your info, but shows the entire open side of the list in To
[08:24:21] <jmcp> ?
[08:27:14] <Tempt> Sep 10 16:26:30 salsa iscsi: [ID 286457 kern.notice] NOTICE: iscsi connection(136) unable to connect to target iqn.1986-03.com.sun:02:e5f5421e-a357-ece6-b0cb-f19f0d70374c (errno:145)
[08:27:18] <Tempt> any ideas?
[08:27:25] <Tempt> I can connect to those iscsi targets from my SPARC machines, but not x86
[08:27:40] <Tempt> is there some unwritten rule about only sharing iscsi between like architectures or something?
[08:27:45] <flyingparchment> Tempt: are you _sure_ it didn't connect?  i've seen errno 145 in the log even when the target still works
[08:27:50] <Tempt> nope
[08:27:52] <flyingparchment> (i have no idea why.)
[08:27:56] <Tempt> nothing in iostat -E
[08:28:00] <Tempt> nothing in format
[08:28:06] <Tempt> no connections listed on the host with the targets
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[08:31:32] <FireflyST> ok so, apparently my sound driver is either not working or the OS doesn't have it
[08:31:40] <flyingparchment> FireflyST: www.opensound.com
[08:31:48] <FireflyST> thanks :)
[08:32:40] <FireflyST> now is the wireless stuff already part of opensolaris or do I have to download it?
[08:33:59] <FireflyST> nm
[08:34:01] <FireflyST> found it
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[08:34:42] <Tempt> ffs
[08:34:44] <Tempt> try another x86 box
[08:34:46] <Tempt> it works
[08:34:47] <Tempt> argh
[08:35:05] <boyd> Ah, so it's *not* x86 :)
[08:35:08] <boyd> different versions?
[08:35:18] <WickedWicky> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT
[08:35:20] <WickedWicky> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT
[08:35:25] * WickedWicky pats his Ultra 5
[08:35:33] <WickedWicky> and YES, I am ALLOWED to talka bout it
[08:35:45] <boyd> It's so cute to see someone so happy about a U5 :)
[08:35:52] <LeftWing> lol
[08:36:05] <Tempt> aah crap
[08:36:06] <Tempt> disabled       Aug_27   svc:/network/iscsi_initiator:default
[08:36:09] <Tempt> that might explain it
[08:36:11] <boyd> LOL
[08:36:19] <Tempt> How did that get disabled?
[08:36:20] <Tempt> FFS.
[08:37:11] * boyd wants a FFS command
[08:37:34] <flyingparchment> you know that's really why BSD invented the 'fast' filesystem
[08:37:57] <Tempt> boyd: What would you like it to do?
[08:38:36] <richlowe> ideally, it would be a command line interface to the bug system of your choice.
[08:38:44] <Triskelios> WickedWicky: my U5 recently migrated to USB for external storage...
[08:38:45] <richlowe> ... if only the command line could accept the app postfix
[08:40:53] <Tempt> iscsiadm: unexpected OS error
[08:40:53] <Tempt> iscsiadm: Unable to complete operation
[08:40:54] <Tempt> FFS
[08:40:55] <jmcp> richlowe: that's a good idea actually
[08:41:16] <Tempt> FFS -hate -anger -whinge -whine -complain TYPE=iscsi PLATFORM=`uname -a`
[08:41:42] <jmcp> heh
[08:42:18] <FireflyST> U5=not worth the gas money to go get it
[08:42:27] <Tempt> FireflyST: Yawn.
[08:42:34] <theRealballchalk> is there a unix util to split a text file evenly into 3 parts?
[08:42:40] <Tempt> FireflyST: WickedWicky has proven it possible to run a webserver with modern content on an SS20\
[08:42:54] <Tempt> FireflyST: So I hardly think that type of argument is going to worry him.
[08:43:09] <boyd> theRealballchalk: split ?
[08:43:27] <theRealballchalk> wiki'ed it yea just foudn it
[08:43:31] <theRealballchalk> boyd: thanks
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[08:52:26] <FireflyST> ok, is Solaris supposed to acquire DNS server information?
[08:52:41] <FireflyST> i.e. when I connect to a wireless network?
[08:52:52] <madhatter> re
[08:53:05] <Triskelios> FireflyST: from DHCP, yes. either use nwam or ifconfig <interface> dhcp primary
[08:54:13] <Tempt> fantastic
[08:54:18] <Tempt> test x86 box is now
[08:54:20] <Tempt> DEAD
[08:54:33] <jamesbrink__> is it possible to upgrade solaris 10 to solaris express?
[08:54:36] <FireflyST> it gets everything else, I just can't get DNS
[08:54:41] <Tempt> FFS -hate -anger -whinge -whine -complain TYPE=x86,bootarchive,grub,shit PLATFORM=`uname -a`
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[08:56:38] * WickedWicky runs Apache 2 + PHP5 + Exim on a SS20 75Mhz/64MB ram
[08:57:07] <WickedWicky> oh god
[08:57:08] <WickedWicky> who killed it
[08:57:11] <WickedWicky> you or the missus?
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[08:57:59] <FireflyST> is ifconfig supposed to show nameserver info?
[08:58:11] <jmcp> jamesbrink__: yes, use LiveUpgrade
[08:58:16] <jmcp> if you want the easy way to do it
[08:58:35] <Triskelios> FireflyST: no
[08:58:42] <WickedWicky> FireflyST: /etc/resolv.conf
[08:58:44] <Tempt> WickedWicky: It failed to survive a reboot
[08:58:54] <Tempt> WickedWicky: Which, no doubt, means it died of boot archive grubisms
[08:59:05] <WickedWicky> boot archive sucs ass
[08:59:09] <WickedWicky> cant they get rid of it?
[08:59:14] <Tempt> oh wait
[08:59:26] <Tempt> it just took 15 minutes to boot, that's all
[08:59:29] <Tempt> too easy (!)
[08:59:36] <Tempt> No
[08:59:45] <Tempt> Must be as linux-like as possible and that means eating grubs
[08:59:57] <flyingparchment> WickedWicky: boot archive is coming soon to a sparc near you.  have fun
[08:59:58] <Triskelios> FireflyST: 'dhcpinfo DNSserv' will tell you what was received from DHCP (dhcpinfo -i <name of interface> DNSserv if you have more than one interface connected)
[09:00:00] <FireflyST> so wait, without knowing the nameserver of an AP ahead of time, I can't use it?
[09:00:14] <Triskelios> FireflyST: do you know what DHCP is?
[09:00:23] <FireflyST> yes
[09:00:52] <FireflyST> dhcpifo: not found
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[09:01:00] <FireflyST> info
[09:01:04] <Tempt> and even after a reboot, it still can't talk.
[09:01:05] <FireflyST> I'm retyping this
[09:01:13] <Triskelios> FireflyST: /sbin/dhcpinfo
[09:01:20] <Tempt> flyingparchment: Yes, and watch SPARC users walk away to another platform
[09:01:29] <Tempt> ** even linux doesn't have the constantly failing boot archive fistful of fail **
[09:01:42] <Tempt> Sun managed to come up with something even shitter than linux
[09:01:45] <Tempt> That's a fist full of win.
[09:01:52] <richlowe> the newboot/sparc case contained much complaining about the fragility.
[09:01:53] <FireflyST> /sbin/dhcpinfo: primary interface requested but no primary interface set
[09:02:00] <richlowe> and, from memory, a commitment for them to not screw sparc the same way.
[09:03:11] <Tempt> The solution, of course, is to make sure all new OBPs support the newer booting requirements
[09:03:14] <Triskelios> FireflyST: you did not run 'ifconfig <interface> dhcp primary'
[09:03:18] <Tempt> and to release OBP updates for all currently supported machines
[09:03:21] <Triskelios> FireflyST: are you using nwam?
[09:03:22] <Tempt> (ie, not EOL)
[09:03:41] <FireflyST> how would I know? I just installed this system 15 mins ago
[09:04:05] <FireflyST> is there someplace I can look to tell me that?
[09:04:48] <Triskelios> FireflyST: svcs -v network/physical
[09:05:14] <FireflyST> yeah, I'm using nwam
[09:05:28] <FireflyST> no wait
[09:05:37] <FireflyST> it's disabled, I'm using default
[09:05:44] <Stric> Tempt: and thus screw hobbyists
[09:05:55] <Stric> which grow up to be purchasers/sysadmins
[09:06:37] <Triskelios> FireflyST: svcadm disable network/physical:default; svcadm enable nwam
[09:07:12] <Triskelios> FireflyST: that should end any manual configuration you have to do, it'll prompt for wireless, etc.
[09:09:24] <Triskelios> is anyone else having trouble with the Sun download site (SDLC)?
[09:09:35] <FireflyST> hey there we go
[09:09:40] <FireflyST> is that permanent?
[09:09:43] <Triskelios> yes
[09:09:50] <FireflyST> awesome
[09:09:56] <FireflyST> thanks so much
[09:10:00] <Tempt> Stric: Customers have to come before hobbyists at some point, and perhaps they could implement sloppy-boot for older machines
[09:10:13] <Tempt> but provide an OBP solution for newer ones
[09:10:16] <Stric> Tempt: I agree..
[09:10:35] <Tempt> I mean, I wouldn't mind having sloppy boot crap on my Blade-1000, but there's no way I'd want that on my 880.
[09:10:55] <Tempt> and I certainly wouldn't put it into production unless it'd be proven stable for at least 3 years
[09:10:58] <Tempt> :)
[09:11:57] <dlg> heh
[09:12:26] <FireflyST> is there any way I can get my sound device to report what it is?
[09:13:41] <e^ipi> hey Tempt
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[09:15:08] <SYS64738> ciao
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[09:18:51] <Tempt> Hey, caffeine man.
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[09:21:03] <FireflyST> nm
[09:21:06] <e^ipi> how goes?
[09:21:06] <FireflyST> OSS found it
[09:21:13] <Triskelios> FireflyST: prtconf -v or /usr/X11/bin/scanpci
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[09:22:11] <Tempt> e^ipi: Pretty good
[09:22:47] <FireflyST> is it normal to get "Unknown HDA codec" after installing OS?
[09:22:50] <FireflyST> err
[09:22:51] <FireflyST> OSS
[09:24:51] <FireflyST> oh man is this bad
[09:25:04] <FireflyST> I have a so called working sound device but hear nothing
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[09:26:31] <Triskelios> you have an HD Audio codec chip not supported by OSS
[09:26:46] <Triskelios> does it say what the codec ID is in the error?
[09:26:56] <FireflyST> it did on boot
[09:27:01] <FireflyST> where is the bootlog?
[09:27:05] <Triskelios> run dmesg
[09:28:36] <FireflyST> 0x83847616, 0x14F12C06
[09:29:45] <FireflyST> "Unknown HDA codec" for both
[09:31:58] <Triskelios> eek, that's a SigmaTel chip I'm not familiar with. is this a MacBook?
[09:32:24] <flyingparchment> sigmatel?  Creative X-Fi?
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[09:32:52] <FireflyST> no, a Dell
[09:33:16] <FireflyST> It might be Creative
[09:33:24] <flyingparchment> /usr/X11/bin/scanpci
[09:33:27] <flyingparchment> should tell you
[09:33:41] <Triskelios> flyingparchment: it'll probably just say Intel HD Audio
[09:34:00] <flyingparchment> one would hope so, as specs are available for intel hd, and not for x-fi :)
[09:34:24] <Triskelios> flyingparchment: the OSS hd audio driver did attach, so yeah..
[09:34:32] <Stric> and every intel hd implementation seems to need specific workarounds (from what I've seen digging through the linux sources)
[09:35:08] <SYS64738> is possible to install a zone without format the filesystem (i want to recover a old zone) ?
[09:35:47] <Stric> you could create a new zone, then just get rid of the "new" fs and replace it with the old
[09:35:48] <Triskelios> Stric: right, there's some generic way to interpret the port configuration but that generally doesn't work
[09:36:26] <Triskelios> (I wrote the HD audio code in ON for SigmaTel STAC9872)
[09:36:29] <trygvis> if you just want the data, just mount it anywhere
[09:37:17] <FireflyST> hmm
[09:37:41] <SYS64738> if I do a zoneadm -z zone verify it tells me that path/zone doesnt exist, while it exists
[09:38:20] <jamesbrink__> omg this dasher app is addictave
[09:39:40] <Triskelios> jamesbrink__: hah, if you let it go without moving the mouse it's telling you what your computer is actually thinking
[09:39:51] <tsoome> morning
[09:40:07] <jamesbrink__> lol
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[09:40:51] <jmcp> hi tsoome
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[09:41:53] <tsoome> anyone knows if 64bit nss_winbind is included now in b72?
[09:41:56] <Stric> Triskelios: I've had my share of fun trying to enable surround stuff on my alc650 (there seem to be a whole lot of different alc650 implementations too)
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[09:42:37] <jamesbrink__> Triskelios turns out my computer is a skitso
[09:43:17] <Triskelios> jamesbrink__: "all work and no play..."
[09:44:20] <Triskelios> Stric: I haven't even considered looking at that, but good luck
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[09:46:20] <FireflyST> ok the problem is not NO sound
[09:46:26] <FireflyST> it's getting it to come out of the speakers
[09:46:49] <FireflyST> apparently different laptops have different PCM outputs pointed at different ports
[09:47:03] <FireflyST> pcm0 and pcm3 work but they're not available on ossmix
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[09:50:18] <Triskelios> FireflyST: I can try hacking the audiohd driver assuming the pin mappings for all STAC922x are the same... (yours is STAC9228)
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[09:51:14] <Triskelios> FireflyST: will you be on tomorrow?
[09:51:18] * Triskelios has to go
[09:51:24] <FireflyST> yep
[09:52:09] <Triskelios> k, later
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[10:11:44] <flyingparchment> okay, so i called the reseller
[10:11:54] <flyingparchment> they told me they can't delivery support to germany
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[10:12:00] <flyingparchment> now i wonder, why did sun tell me to talk to sun ireland?
[10:12:15] <e^ipi> irish mob strongarmed them in to it?
[10:13:05] <Cyrille> it's sort of the hub for lots of things in Europe
[10:13:18] <delewis> Sun's desktop division (JDS, etc.) is in Ireland.
[10:13:26] <Cyrille> that too
[10:13:33] <flyingparchment> i'm sure sun do a lot of stuff in ireland, but if they can't sell me support, that doesn't help :)
[10:13:51] <flyingparchment> i now wasted a month waiting for a quote that's never going to arrive
[10:13:57] <Tempt> huh
[10:14:01] <Tempt> Sun won't support Germany?
[10:14:12] <flyingparchment> sun's preferred reseller in Ireland won't support germany
[10:14:20] <Cyrille> that's weird
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[10:14:33] <tsoome> why they should if there is sun in germany already?
[10:14:38] <Berny> flyingparchment: call a german reseller
[10:14:43] <flyingparchment> i don't speak german :P
[10:14:50] <Berny> oops :-P
[10:14:52] <flyingparchment> tsoome: i don't know, if they don't, why did sun tell me to call them?
[10:15:07] <tsoome> someone was just stupid:D
[10:15:15] <Tempt> So much for making money on support
[10:15:22] <Berny> i'm sure german resellers have some folks speaking english ;-)
[10:15:44] <flyingparchment> anyway, i'll figure out a way to buy it from germany, i'm just annoyed about this.
[10:15:52] <flyingparchment> because i actually needed support this week, and i don't have it because sun fucked up
[10:16:20] <Berny> are you in edu market?
[10:16:29] <flyingparchment> non-profit
[10:16:41] <tsoome> but why dont you just go to http://de.sun.com and let them do their work?
[10:16:47] <Berny> thats someone different iside sun.de
[10:17:04] <Berny> for edu i could pass you a contact
[10:17:07] <SYS64738> to use /urs/local in a small-zone what inherit must I set ?
[10:17:19] <flyingparchment> tsoome: i asked if sun UK could give me a quote in EUR, because i am in the UK and i don't speak german.  they told me to ask sun ireland.  that made sense to me, because ireland uses EUR..
[10:17:43] <tsoome> lol
[10:18:10] <tsoome> so they were insisting they have no access to EUR pricelist?:D
[10:18:14] <tsoome> thats funny
[10:18:40] <flyingparchment> well, i could get a EUR quote from the UK online catalogue, but it was too expensive.  (200 EURs over the correct price).. that's why i called them
[10:20:40] <tsoome> well anyhow asking you to call to ireland to get price for germany is sort of..... or maybe that guy didnt had any clue where germany is.....
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[10:25:44] <Berny> well most of sun support for .de comes from ireland
[10:26:43] <tsoome> backend?
[10:27:24] <Berny> varies... quite often i get an irish engineer assign to my cases directly
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[11:01:33] <timsf> hi all
[11:03:43] <Berny> hi timsf
[11:04:37] <trochej> Hi
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[11:13:05] <dlg> omghi
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[11:14:24] <dlg> anyone here serve nfs off a sun box to macos clients?
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[11:15:15] <Tempt> Yes
[11:15:34] <Tempt> I server NFS to my powerbook, since the MacOS SMB support is too flakey to play video reliably
[11:15:40] <Tempt> it works fine (nfsv3 only though)
[11:15:50] <dlg> no issues?
[11:16:16] <Tempt> No issues
[11:16:19] <Tempt> other than UID mapping
[11:16:33] <dlg> zebra is having problems with his setup
[11:16:45] <Tempt> Zebra?
[11:16:50] <Tempt> Perhaps he needs to stripe his disks
[11:16:50] <Tempt> hahaha
[11:16:51] <Tempt> hah
[11:16:52] <Tempt> ha
[11:16:59] <dlg> badom tish
[11:17:19] <dlg> he just joined
[11:18:11] <Tempt> haha, okay.
[11:18:21] <dlg> any clues?
[11:18:26] <Tempt> I really have had no problems at all
[11:18:27] <Tempt> *EXCEPT*
[11:18:34] <Tempt> The MacOS NFS implementation burns a lot of CPU time
[11:18:41] <Tempt> So it would not be good for video editing or anything heavy like that.
[11:18:49] <Tempt> big sys time consumer.
[11:18:54] <dlg> this sounds like a server issue though
[11:18:56] <zebra> yeah
[11:19:01] <zebra> got odd issues
[11:19:06] <Tempt> What are the symptoms?
[11:19:09] <zebra> ok
[11:19:11] <zebra> picture this
[11:19:34] <zebra> SunFire x4200 M2 series boxes serving out NFS exports for Mac OS X network userhomes
[11:19:42] <zebra> Mac clients connect to NFS userhomes, no biggie
[11:20:00] <zebra> after some period of time, NFS would aparently stop serving out
[11:20:07] <zebra> and connections to NFS server idle
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[11:20:20] <zebra> despite being able to ping connect to, SSH and find interfaces fine
[11:20:24] <Tempt> ouch
[11:20:26] <Tempt> That's wierd.
[11:20:27] <zebra> Sol 10 u3, latest patch
[11:20:36] <zebra> yeah
[11:20:45] <dlg> omg u4 was out like an hour ago, upgrade immediately
[11:20:45] <zebra> there are two complications however
[11:20:48] <zebra> LOLz
[11:20:54] <Tempt> I found that MacOS can choke and require a remount after sleeping.
[11:21:00] <Tempt> So I never let that machine sleep anymore.
[11:21:06] <zebra> yeah - with SMB it does indeed Tempt
[11:21:13] <zebra> with NFS, it is fine, so I've found
[11:21:19] <Tempt> No, I've had it stale out NFS mounts
[11:21:22] <zebra> really?
[11:21:23] <zebra> interesting
[11:21:24] <Tempt> Yeah
[11:21:28] <zebra> I'll keep an eye out for this
[11:21:33] <zebra> we do have two unique issues
[11:21:34] <Tempt> I've had probably every single MacOS problem in existance though.
[11:21:52] <zebra> for certain legacy boxes
[11:22:04] <zebra> we run an NFS reshare back through a Mac OS X open directory server
[11:22:07] <zebra> no biggie here
[11:22:18] <zebra> I needed to map root-to-root on the /etc/dfs/dfstab
[11:22:23] <zebra> in order to do that
[11:22:34] <zebra> so the OS X Server could talk correctly (stupid apple thing)
[11:22:35] <zebra> so
[11:22:37] <zebra> in dfstab
[11:22:39] <zebra> anon=0
[11:23:02] <Tempt> NFS reshare = evil
[11:23:07] <zebra> now, I wouldn't have thought this alone would cause instability or the daemon to apparently stop responding to requests per se
[11:23:08] <zebra> yeah
[11:23:13] <zebra> I know, but we need it for legacy stuff :\
[11:23:38] <zebra> so yeah, very odd situation
[11:23:42] <zebra> the other part of this
[11:23:49] <zebra> is that these NFS exports
[11:23:52] <zebra> are SAM-QFS filesystems
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[11:24:02] <zebra> but SAM-QFS seems to play no part in this situation
[11:24:15] <zebra> as it apparently reports and works/archives and HSM's away normally
[11:25:06] <Tempt> That *shouldn't* make any difference.
[11:25:10] <zebra> nah
[11:25:17] <zebra> it's just an HSM layer
[11:25:27] <zebra> shouldn't have any real impact on the NFSd or lockd et al
[11:25:33] <zebra> what is more frustrating perhaps
[11:25:41] <zebra> is that the logging is showing up nothing
[11:26:16] <zebra> \/var/adm/messages is blank of any nfs related issues
[11:27:00] * Tempt shrugs
[11:27:05] <trochej> Coffeee
[11:27:06] <trochej> Neeed
[11:27:51] <Tempt> That's a really wierd one.
[11:27:58] <Tempt> Set fire to the Macs?
[11:28:16] <zebra> yeah
[11:28:31] <zebra> I have methanol in the labs, somewhere
[11:28:38] <zebra> good call :\
[11:28:43] <zebra> Sun are on the case
[11:28:53] <zebra> but it will take them 4 years to get back to me with a solution, I am sure
[11:29:03] <palowoda> Report back
[11:29:41] <palowoda> Oh wait in 4 years I'll be dead.
[11:29:49] <Tempt> Take photos of the burning macintrashes
[11:29:50] <Tempt> It'
[11:29:56] <Tempt> It's probably some wierd Apple problem.
[11:29:57] <zebra> indeed
[11:30:04] <palowoda> Use Windows clients.
[11:30:05] <zebra> "OH HI I BURNT YOUR MAC" etc...
[11:30:09] <Tempt> Like the ethernet chipset detecting packets going to a non-Apple MAC address
[11:30:12] <Tempt> and fucking them
[11:30:31] <zebra> hahah
[11:30:37] <zebra> I like this channel already
[11:30:40] <palowoda> Or maybe Linux clients.
[11:30:56] <Tempt> Log a fault with Apple
[11:31:02] <zebra> bajhahaha
[11:31:05] <Tempt> and watch them tell you to buy xserves
[11:31:06] <palowoda> Or even BSD
[11:31:09] <zebra> "There is nothing wrong with our OS. It works"
[11:31:09] <Tempt> and replace your switches with belkins
[11:31:15] <zebra> yeah
[11:31:28] <zebra> we've got a 30 node quad xeon xserve XGRID cluster
[11:31:31] <zebra> it enjoys creating heat
[11:31:38] <zebra> and long walks on the beach on weekends
[11:31:45] <Tempt> And costing an insane amount of money for the shitty hardware you get
[11:31:50] <Tempt> Don't forget a side-serving of XServe RAID
[11:31:51] <zebra> yeah :\
[11:31:52] <zebra> sigh
[11:31:55] <Tempt> to crash different
[11:32:00] <Tempt> and take 9 days to create a LUN
[11:32:15] <zebra> not to mention non redundant controllers in XRAID
[11:32:21] <zebra> lose a controller and lose at life
[11:32:57] <Stric> Anyone had trouble with ZFS getting out of sync with itself in multi-level FS hierarchies? ie it replaced a fs in the middle with just a new directory containing submountpoint directories..
[11:33:51] <WickedWicky> que?
[11:33:59] <Stric> hold for paste :)
[11:34:33] * WickedWicky holds , but thats cause the bus driver is insane
[11:34:49] <Stric> http://pastebin.com/m7b37981c
[11:35:18] <palowoda> WickedWicky: Did he get ARC approval?
[11:35:28] <Stric> there, both dv01 and dv02 is a FS, but dv02 didn't get mounted.. so dv02afk is mounted in a subdir of kaka instead of being a subfs of dv02
[11:36:33] <WickedWicky> zfs set mountpoint=/whatever/here pool/fs
[11:36:34] <Stric> not sure when this happened.. I've been exporting/importing, unmounting/mounting lots of times and haven't really thought about this..
[11:37:07] <Stric> dv01 and dv02 are identical except for the name and subfs's.. but one of them got mounted, the other didn't..
[11:37:13] <WickedWicky> palowoda: I think he got his licence with a cheeseburger
[11:37:26] <zebra> if you do an zpool list verbose, does it show all pools as "clean" ?
[11:37:45] <Stric> verbose?
[11:37:58] <Stric> you mean zpool status -v  ?
[11:38:10] <zebra> yeh
[11:38:16] <Stric> yeah, it's fine..
[11:38:19] <zebra> hrrrm "
[11:38:27] <zebra> and when you zpool export poolname
[11:38:37] <zebra> and then zpool import poolname on a different host
[11:38:43] <zebra> it doesn't give any odd messages?
[11:39:04] <JWheeler> speaking of zpool status -v, I have 7 errors that I want to clear out, the trouble is, it's not giving me filenames
[11:39:05] <zebra> ...looked through an "fmadm faulty" output?
[11:39:08] <WickedWicky> which one didnt get mounted anyway?
[11:39:10] <Stric> I exported, reinstalled to u4 instead of 3, then zpool imported.. had to -f because it "might be from a different host"
[11:39:13] <WickedWicky> I see three dv02 mounts
[11:39:16] <WickedWicky> and three dv01 mounts
[11:39:19] <zebra> gah
[11:39:48] <Stric> WickedWicky: zfs list  says /kaka/dv02 should be mounted.. df says it isn't
[11:40:13] <zebra> you've done a zpool clear, of course?
[11:40:14] <WickedWicky> it is mounted
[11:40:19] <Stric> and when I do 'zfs mount -a', it says dv02 couldn't be mounted, because the directory isn't empty
[11:40:20] <zebra> (dumb question, probably)
[11:40:23] <WickedWicky> kaka/dv02                 5.25G  1.77T  42.5K  /kaka/dv02
[11:40:45] <Stric> WickedWicky: that's zfs list
[11:40:56] <Stric> WickedWicky: but it's not actually mounted
[11:41:21] <WickedWicky> oh wait
[11:41:31] <WickedWicky> ok so, did you look in /kaka/dv02?
[11:41:52] <WickedWicky> ls -la /kaka/dv02
[11:41:57] <WickedWicky> there might be a .file there
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[11:43:23] <Stric> http://pastebin.com/m7e204f3a
[11:44:08] <WickedWicky> yes, so there is a directory or file within /kaka/dv02
[11:44:19] <WickedWicky> and zfs refuses to mount over a  non-empty directory
[11:44:28] <Stric> but I didn't create those dirs, zfs did.
[11:45:18] <WickedWicky> zfs should have created those directories in the ZFS file system /kaka/dv02
[11:45:27] <WickedWicky> try to unmount all /kaka/dv02 filesystems
[11:45:30] <WickedWicky> and mount -a
[11:45:39] <WickedWicky> and remove the directories first, after unmounting
[11:45:47] <WickedWicky> they're autocreated anyway
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[11:46:05] <WickedWicky> and be quick, cause my battery is dying
[11:46:09] <Stric> The problem is, why did zfs create them.. It's causing me trouble..
[11:46:24] <WickedWicky> zfs always creates the mountpoints if they dont exists
[11:46:26] <WickedWicky> work by design
[11:46:45] <WickedWicky> your real problem is /kaka/dv02 not beingmounted first
[11:46:47] <WickedWicky> and you should find out why
[11:46:51] <Stric> but it tried mounting kaka/dv02/dv02xyz before kaka/dv02
[11:46:56] <WickedWicky> yea
[11:47:03] <WickedWicky> which is wrong
[11:47:05] <Stric> and that's a bug
[11:47:16] <WickedWicky> or an unclean filesystem or other thing that shouldnt be
[11:47:30] <Stric> I'll try to reproduce stuff.. thanks anyhow..
[11:47:37] <Stric> (this is just a test system so far)
[11:47:40] <Stric> now food..
[11:47:46] <WickedWicky> I'm almost home
[11:47:49] <WickedWicky> see ya guys later
[11:49:45] <Tempt> hmm
[11:49:49] <Tempt> time to dl 10u4 for x86
[11:49:54] <Tempt> and try LU'ing this shitbox
[11:50:01] <Tempt> This is going to really suck.
[11:50:08] <Berny> Tempt: wait till my dl finished...
[11:50:15] <Tempt> Oh noes
[11:50:28] <Berny> 10hours left for the first part :-\
[11:50:29] <Tempt> I'm downloading everything concurrently, too, for maximum bandwidth gobbling
[11:50:34] <Berny> whopping 24kB/s
[11:50:42] <Tempt> fark
[11:50:53] <Tempt> It only took 4 hours for my to get the SPARC release
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[11:51:57] <Berny> grrr
[11:52:21] <Berny> when downloading sxce i get like 1.8MB/s
[11:53:13] <Berny> but nice guys from sun support want me to install s10 before they believe me that it's a bug in the x2200m2 bios and not in nevadas biosdev :-\
[11:53:20] <Tempt> hmm, about 60k
[11:53:26] <Tempt> that's pretty slow.
[11:53:30] <Berny> ack
[11:53:42] * Berny holds on to the other 30k ;-)
[11:53:57] <Tempt> gimmeh
[11:54:02] <Berny> no!!!!
[11:54:02] <Tempt> That's my bandwidth, I need it more than you
[11:54:08] <Berny> no!!!!
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[11:54:16] <Berny> sun support is waiting...
[11:54:19] <Tempt> So I can upgrade my u3 x86 box
[11:54:37] <Tempt> and then carve that 4x250Gb raidz zpool into 9Gb LUNs and shove 'em around using iSCSI
[11:54:39] <dlg> no torrentz?
[11:54:43] <Tempt> and laugh like a maniac
[11:54:46] <Tempt> dlg: shut up.
[11:54:53] <Berny> answer till tue 5pm or we close your call...
[11:54:58] <dlg> Tempt: touchy?
[11:55:07] 
[11:55:10] <Berny> you can easily open a new one if you experience the same issues with s10
[11:55:15] <Tempt> Actually, I'll be bringing some burnt media to OpenSolaris Melbourne on Wednesday for anyone who needs a copy.
[11:55:31] <Tempt> dlg: Sick of hearing it from twits like kaiwai.
[11:55:36] <dlg> ah
[11:55:41] <Berny> hey wanna come around germany and hand me one? :-)
[11:55:54] <Tempt> heh
[11:56:15] 
[11:56:35] <Berny> usually it's faster to download the images then to cat and burn them...
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[11:56:55] <Berny> right now i would have to punch them to paper for the dl to be faster...
[11:57:53] <Berny> maybe i switch days and show up in office on wednesday and not tomorrow...
[11:59:02] <Tempt> I should have downloaded this earlier today
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[12:01:51] <Berny> yeah 17k, 13hrs remaining
[12:02:07] <Tempt> Still holding steady around 60
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[12:31:21] <WickedWicky> I dont get why ppl complain about the download speed @ sundownloads
[12:31:36] <WickedWicky> I'm getting my full 2MBPS by downloading the sol10u4 isos
[12:31:45] <asyd> because they use sun download manager ? :p
[12:32:06] <WickedWicky> as do I
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[12:36:02] <trs81> sundownloads uses akamai, so it varies from place to place
[12:36:41] <Berny> i should get myself a shell account with some disk space in the us then ;-)
[12:37:08] <WickedWicky> I am not far from you and getting excellent speeds Berny
[12:37:23] <Berny> where is not far?
[12:37:28] <WickedWicky> Netherlands
[12:37:36] <Berny> got coffee? can i come over? ;-)
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[12:37:40] <WickedWicky> sure
[12:37:44] <Berny> too far for a coffee ;-)
[12:38:07] <Berny> as i said usually i get ~1.8MB/s
[12:38:23] <Berny> only the u4 images are really slow :-(
[12:38:36] <WickedWicky> which is exactly what I am downloading at the moment
[12:39:03] <Berny> finished the sparcs in a day...
[12:39:10] <Berny> now waiting for x86
[12:39:45] <Berny> .oO(just to find it will misbehave as nevada... i'm sure)
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[12:49:16] <trochej> HAve you seen that?
[12:49:19] <trochej> http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=98
[12:49:27] <trochej> There is a poll and an option for OpenSolaris
[12:49:34] <trochej> You think we should vote for OS?
[12:52:06] <Berny> why not?
[12:52:21] <Berny> just show them there's more then linux and windoze...
[12:52:44] <trochej> I thought so
[12:52:47] <Stric> I vote for the 5th blank one
[12:52:50] <trochej> *klick*
[12:52:53] <trochej> Stric: :)
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[13:03:27] <trochej> Eh
[13:03:46] <trochej> They recognise of a person voted basing on IP address.
[13:03:59] <trochej> That means that noone behind our gateway can vote now
[13:04:00] <trochej> ROTFL
[13:04:06] <trochej> Proffessional way to do this
[13:05:16] <renihs> i like it :p
[13:05:22] <trochej> :)
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[13:07:14] <trochej> Maybe we should add an option for a free chockolate bar?
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[13:08:07] <renihs> hmm chocolate
[13:09:32] <trochej> Yup
[13:09:44] <trochej> OOookkkay, they are cheating, I will too
[13:10:18] <infidel> anyone use clamav here? the reason i ask is because i want clamscan to ignore emty files, i run it via crontab
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[13:12:36] <Tempt> Everyone.
[13:12:43] <Tempt> STOP DOWNLOADING SOLARIS 10u4
[13:13:04] <trochej> Tempt: Whyyyyy?
[13:13:07] <dlg> that reminds me
[13:13:12] * dlg goes to download u4
[13:13:25] <Tempt> So I can download it faster :)
[13:13:26] <trochej> :)
[13:13:47] <trochej> Tempt: Ohh, and then we can download it from you? :)\
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[13:17:02] <infidel> Tempt: how can i ignore empty files running it via crontab
[13:20:59] <Tempt> huh?
[13:21:05] <infidel> clamav
[13:21:10] <Tempt> No idea
[13:21:13] <Tempt> Don't use the shit.
[13:21:26] <infidel> missunderstood you then sorry
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[13:21:31] <Tempt> By running only UNIX systems, I avoid the need to worry about Windoze viruses, malware, etc.
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[13:21:38] <Berny> hmm i only use clam-milter :-)
[13:21:47] <dlg> Tempt: but you run systems for weenies right?
[13:21:52] <Tempt> Nope
[13:21:58] <Tempt> Not running weenie OSes
[13:21:59] * dlg jealous
[13:22:08] <Tempt> There are Windows admins to look after Windows
[13:22:13] <Tempt> and UNIX admins look after UNIX
[13:22:28] <Tempt> and linux weenies to make a mess on the floor every time someone mentions a computer with more than 4Gb of RAM.
[13:22:37] <dlg> heh
[13:22:43] <Berny> :>
[13:23:20] <Berny> only real reason i have clamav-milter is that by policy i'm required to have a scanner on my mx
[13:23:40] <Berny> .oO(they tried to take that away from me... bastards...)
[13:24:07] <Berny> .oO(they have me route all my mail traffic through their mx as well... blowing stuff on all ends...)
[13:24:13] <Berny> grmbl
[13:24:14] * dlg got some cool tweaks into clamd to make that easier
[13:24:21] * quasi is still wondering whether to allocate 32 or 64G to a domain
[13:24:48] <Berny> the more the better ;-)
[13:24:51] <asyd> \_o<
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[13:25:34] <infidel> Tempt: as a admin i'am required to run an anti-virus program and with that i don't want to read a long log file with a bunch oh line of empty files
[13:26:02] <dlg> infidel: you're using clamdscan?
[13:26:15] <infidel> dlg: yeah
[13:26:17] <quasi> Berny: except I have a hard time figuring out what to use the other 4 USIV+ for
[13:26:26] <dlg> infidel: the source isnt hard to grok
[13:26:41] <dlg> just get it to skip 0 length files
[13:26:47] <dlg> it should already be statting in there somewhere
[13:26:53] <quasi> since the mem is tied to e6900 sysboards
[13:26:57] <dlg> esp if you're recursing over teh fs
[13:27:42] <infidel> dlg: ok i'll check into that thanks
[13:28:13] <Berny> quasi: put the ramining cpus in the same domain?
[13:29:23] <Tempt> quasi: You should give me the 6900.
[13:29:36] <Tempt> quasi: I'll look after it for you.
[13:34:35] <Berny> yeehaa... down to 11k
[13:35:51] <Stric> http://pastebin.com/mfec2c55 <- How to break zfs hierarchy with some zfs mount/umount.. line 37 being the actual breaking and 62+63 showing the breakage..
[13:37:09] <Tempt> Berny: 40k
[13:37:15] <Tempt> Berny: Stop leeching already.
[13:37:19] <quasi> Berny: it doesn't need them
[13:37:42] <quasi> Tempt: mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, NO - my toy
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[13:40:30] <Tempt> i need it more :)
[13:40:57] <Tempt> Swap you an 880, two pints and a bag of crisps?
[13:42:20] <quasi> Tempt: I think we have a few customers who'd get rather annoyed if we did
[13:43:20] <Tempt> Three pints and a pack of cashews?
[13:43:27] <Berny> hehe
[13:43:31] <Berny> bazaar
[13:44:40] <Berny> Tempt: i *NEED* that image! :-)
[13:44:41] <quasi> Tempt: I like my new job - I'm not quite willing to sell it for 3 pints in the first month
[13:45:01] <dlg> 4 pints
[13:45:24] <Tempt> and two packets of pork scratchin's
[13:45:32] <quasi> besides, you prolly couldn't afford shipping it to .au
[13:45:45] <Berny> btw anyone running sol10 on a x2200m2 with two idential disks?
[13:46:04] <Tempt> quasi: Wouldn't cost more than $15k
[13:46:08] <Berny> .oO(same disk type and same layout)
[13:46:35] <quasi> Berny: I have had that
[13:46:44] <Berny> quasi: did biosdev work?
[13:46:51] <Berny> ie where you able to use lu?
[13:47:15] <quasi> I didn't stick around for that long enough to try ;)
[13:47:20] <Berny> bugger
[13:47:38] <Berny> i opened a ticket on that issue (though i run nevada on that box)...
[13:48:00] <Berny> jmcp pointed out this was prolly a bios bug (as in the u20m2)
[13:48:23] <quasi> so you've installed the latest bios?
[13:48:40] <Berny> sun support now wants me to put sol10 on it to verify it's not nevada related (they blame nevada blindly and refuse further support)
[13:48:47] <Berny> quasi: yeah... latest bios rev on it
[13:48:57] <Berny> still the same with snv
[13:49:28] <Berny> now i'm waiting for the s10u4 image to dribble down the line
[13:50:12] <Berny> .oO(maybe i'll log a bug on b.o.o in the meantime)
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[13:54:17] <Berny> hmm, what category would i put that bug in?
[13:55:08] <renihs> erm
[13:55:24] <renihs> i have a shellscript which pgreps cron
[13:55:39] <renihs> however i get differnt output if i rename the script *file*
[13:55:50] <renihs> if i name it checkcron -> always not running (wrong status)
[13:55:57] <renihs> if i named bitemyass -> correct output
[13:56:01] <renihs> ????
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[13:56:25] <jmcp> renihs: pgrep -x
[13:56:32] <cmihai> Speaking of bugs, Sun finally fixed mine :D
[13:56:40] <jmcp> cmihai: which one was that?
[13:56:45] <cmihai> sun.com/123
[13:57:22] <cmihai> Sun Secure Shell can now use port numbers > 32768 :-)
[13:57:59] <cmihai> >= even. It used a Short for port numbers :-)
[13:58:13] <renihs> hmm pgrep -x?
[13:58:29] <renihs> why should that be different if i just rename the file?
[13:58:33] <Cyrille> very common mistake
[13:58:34] <cmihai> A simple s/Short portNumber/Int portNumber, but it took a while hehe
[13:58:37] <quasi> meeting &
[13:58:49] <Cyrille> or s/short/unsigned short
[13:59:09] <cmihai> Java deos not have any unsigned types.
[13:59:19] <jmcp> renihs: man pgrep
[13:59:21] <Cyrille> ah, didn't know it was in Java
[13:59:54] <cmihai> Yeah, it's a great app though.
[14:00:13] <cmihai> It allows you to ssh from anywhere to anywhere with a Java app... even via proxy :-).
[14:00:29] <cmihai> You can also share the session (read only or write) with your friends :D
[14:00:31] <renihs> jmcp, it has nothing todo with pgrep
[14:00:34] <renihs> same with ps -ef
[14:00:47] <renihs> it works when the script is named fuckbla, it doesnt if its named checkcron
[14:00:53] <renihs> same script
[14:00:57] * jmcp gives up caring
[14:00:59] <renihs> does only ps -ef
[14:01:10] <renihs> jmcp, lol, i am not using pgrep
[14:01:46] <renihs> and i dont care about pgrep -x ...lol
[14:01:57] <renihs> ps -ef |grep -w cron should work
[14:02:14] <renihs> and it does
[14:02:19] <renihs> just not from a script named checkcron
[14:02:33] <Cyrille> path issue?
[14:02:36] <renihs> no
[14:02:44] <renihs> tried in tmp, tried anywhere else
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[14:02:46] <renihs> no difference
[14:02:55] <renihs> this ....is ...strange?
[14:02:59] <jmcp> renihs: so why are you not using pgrep?
[14:03:00] <Cyrille> started with ./checkcron?
[14:03:08] <renihs> no
[14:03:09] <renihs> full path
[14:03:22] <renihs> jmcp, same issue with pgrep -x
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[14:03:38] <renihs> thats the same like ps -ef|grep -w
[14:03:41] * jmcp goes away again
[14:03:42] <renihs> more or less
[14:03:54] <Cyrille> where is the error you're getting coming from, the shell or the command you're running?
[14:04:07] <renihs> wait i ll pastebin my actions, or better a collegues but bla
[14:04:41] <renihs> http://pastebin.ca/690068
[14:04:48] <renihs> after moving -> works
[14:04:51] <renihs> move back -> doesnt work
[14:04:55] <renihs> filename rename i mean
[14:05:32] <renihs> same with pgrep (initial way)
[14:05:49] <renihs> dont mind the ugly script, its been broken down to figure whats the heck is going on
[14:06:01] <Cyrille> how is that a problem?
[14:06:25] <renihs> it gives different results in term of the *FILENAME* the script is called from
[14:06:34] <renihs> script called: fuckyou...works as expected
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[14:06:41] <Cyrille> when named crontest it finds crontest in the grep cron, and the result of grep is therefore 0.
[14:06:44] <renihs> script called: crontest -> wrong output
[14:07:03] <renihs> true :p
[14:07:10] <Cyrille> because grep cron while running crontest or croncheck or checkcron or whatever will return 0
[14:07:10] <renihs> but that should have been avoided with -w
[14:07:11] <renihs> or -x in pgrep
[14:07:23] <renihs> hmmm true
[14:07:33] <renihs> hmmm lol, that has to be it
[14:08:05] <renihs> mkay i never did the ps -ef|grep -w or pgrep -x myself
[14:08:17] <renihs> bah, need access there
[14:08:23] <renihs> me feels dumb now
[14:09:20] <renihs> thanks Cyrille
[14:09:23] <renihs> and jmcp
[14:10:21] <trochej> Why would anyone tag a Solaris Internals with Paul Watters is a mystery to me.
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[14:11:53] <Berny> how long does it take until i can find the bug i just entered on b.o.o?
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[14:38:41] <_judas_> hey guys
[14:38:50] <_judas_> guess wah t im wearing?
[14:39:30] <Berny> nothing?
[14:39:35] <_judas_> nothing
[14:39:40] <_judas_> i'm naked
[14:40:31] <Cyrille> and what gave you the impression we wanted to know?
[14:40:52] <_judas_> yah
[14:41:24] <_judas_> i want very much put my anus in a women's penis
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[14:57:57] <trochej> _judas_: Care not to elaborate?
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[14:59:09] <_judas_> :)
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[15:12:17] <Gekkko[PDA]> In search of a shell once again
[15:12:19] <Gekkko[PDA]> *sigh*
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[15:25:37] <lloy0076> I've worked out why people tend to send help requests to opensolaris-discuss instead of -help
[15:25:55] <lloy0076> It's because those who *can* answer listen to -discuss and not -help.
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[15:25:57] <lloy0076> I think.
[15:26:47] <trochej> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bamakve/1341452607/
[15:27:14] <lloy0076> trochej: Which one is you?
[15:28:17] <lloy0076> I guess my point is: there is not POINT in asking for HELP on a channel where noone can help you (or mailing list).
[15:28:36] <lloy0076> Which many open source "help" mailing lists seem to suffer from.
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[15:30:06] <trochej> lloy0076: I think you unravelled the last remaining mystery of the universe
[15:30:38] <lloy0076> trochej: I think Deep Thought would have an issue with you there.
[15:30:41] <lloy0076> :P
[15:32:30] <_judas_> i just took a shower
[15:32:43] <_judas_> took off my underwear and found a small piece 1 inch
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[15:33:45] <lloy0076> Did I miss something?
[15:33:54] <lloy0076> Obviously
[15:33:55] <Berny> .oO(why do i sometimes feel the urge to gag somebody?)
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[15:34:06] <Berny> lloy0076: care for a log replay? ;-)
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[15:34:16] <lloy0076> errr, not really
[15:34:24] <Berny> wisely chosen
[15:34:43] <nachox> morning
[15:34:50] <Berny> hey nacho
[15:34:51] * lloy0076 sigh
[15:35:02] <Berny> talking bout nachos... time for a snack
[15:35:11] <lloy0076> :)
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[15:36:06] <nachox> never heard that joke
[15:37:00] <trochej> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bamakve/1335517125/
[15:37:42] <lloy0076> eww
[15:37:47] <lloy0076> lol @ addiction
[15:38:03] <lloy0076> And the Govts fuck on about heroin, cocain and crap
[15:38:11] <lloy0076> But they allow alcohol and tobacco
[15:38:13] * lloy0076 sigh
[15:43:55] <Tempt> oooh
[15:44:04] <Tempt> sanctimonious statements
[15:44:20] <Tempt> have a beer and a ciggie and put your feet up.
[15:44:53] <trochej> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bamakve/1329837137/
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[15:45:59] <trygvis> damn
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[15:48:19] <Gekkko[PDA]> I want a chocolate cake, and nachos
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[15:50:49] <Tempt> Gekkko[PDA]: Nachos are easy. You can obtain the basic ingredients from the 711 if you're smart enough to keep a stash of pickled jalapenos in the fridge
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[15:55:45] <cmihai> Thanks for the tip.. Martha Stewart
[15:56:29] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol
[15:56:48] <WickedWicky> did someomebody say Nachos?
[15:56:52] <Gekkko[PDA]> salsa dip, doritos, coon cheese = nachos
[15:56:59] <WickedWicky> jesus, I can't spell
[15:57:58] <Berny> .oO(i really should put nachos on the shopping list)
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[15:59:41] <RaD|Tz> don't eat that crap
[16:00:03] <RaD|Tz> eat a fruit or a sandwich
[16:00:48] <Berny> sandwich and nacho? good combo
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[16:01:34] <RaD|Tz> no, no nachos
[16:02:07] <Berny> what's wrong with nachos?
[16:02:27] <RaD|Tz> is crap food
[16:03:10] <RaD|Tz> you'll get sick someday
[16:03:21] <Berny> hu?
[16:03:31] <Berny> should i stop smoking as well?
[16:03:58] <RaD|Tz> it will be fine, but if you wanna die, is your choice
[16:04:10] <RaD|Tz> I'll get your job when you die
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[16:28:18] <Tempt> nachos sandwich
[16:28:21] <Tempt> awesome
[16:28:39] <Tempt> RaD|Tz: You'll get to have his job when he dies
[16:28:47] <Tempt> RaD|Tz: But he's enjoying your life while he's here.
[16:29:40] <nachox> Tempt: do you ever sleep_
[16:29:45] <RaD|Tz> It is how you see that "joy"
[16:30:05] <Tempt> nachox: Easy. I sleep between 2am and 9am.
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[16:30:31] <nachox> RaD|Tz: hey! my job is cool... sometimes
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[16:38:17] <Berny> well joy involves... drugs, girls, a bottle of rum, a cigar and being in the carribean... :-)
[16:40:36] <Tempt> Maybe not the tropical climes, but the rest sounds good.
[16:41:22] <Berny> oh well it's quite nice on the beach in the evening ;-)
[16:42:21] <Tempt> evening, perhaps
[16:43:01] <WickedWicky> I miss Fortaleza and Rio :(
[16:43:20] <Tempt> Oh, man, I need some time off
[16:43:25] <Tempt> live it up for a week or 52.
[16:43:30] <WickedWicky> lol
[16:44:09] <WickedWicky> year lasting sabbatical
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[16:44:25] <Tempt> If only
[16:44:36] <Tempt> I haven't had a holiday since 2001, and that was only a week off
[16:44:55] <Tempt> and I didn't do anything more interesting than sit around the pub drinking pints and chasing skirt.
[16:45:15] <Cyrille> sounds pretty interesting ;-)
[16:45:25] <Berny> nothing worng with that
[16:45:32] <Tempt> Actually, it wasn't bad.
[16:45:36] <nachox> damn...you suck, but you already knew that...
[16:45:43] <Berny> .oO(chase metermaids)
[16:45:50] <Tempt> But I think I might at least travel interstate and do the same thing
[16:46:02] <nachox> what are you waiting to go on vacation? retirement?
[16:46:14] <Tempt> time off
[16:46:25] <Cyrille> for good behaviour?
[16:46:41] <Tempt> something like that
[16:47:39] <Tempt> You know the way it goes, you've always got a mountain of work piling up
[16:47:43] <Berny> waiting for his dl to finish :>
[16:47:46] <Tempt> scheduled changes, systems nobody else understands
[16:48:13] <Tempt> The only time you get your leave is being paid out when you move to a new job
[16:49:14] <nachox> or you can train someone
[16:49:31] <Tempt> Ha.
[16:52:04] <nachox> what? affraid of not being considered irreplazable?
[16:52:21] <Tempt> Can't train the untrainable.
[16:58:15] <Berny> within their limits you can train them...
[16:58:24] <Berny> train them to call you :-)
[16:59:38] <Berny> just get yourself a new notebook, let your boss pay for wireless on the way... and relax on a beach :-)
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[17:41:58] <^ALEX^|> hi
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[17:49:48] <Doomshammer> does anyone has a recommendation for a 4-port SATA PCI controller that is running with Solaris 10?
[17:50:21] <sickness> any no brand sil3114 will work, but at slow speed
[17:50:36] <Doomshammer> well, I'd like some speed :)
[17:50:45] <sickness> I'd like to find a 4-port SATA2 PCI-E controller, that works with solaris =)
[17:50:49] <Doomshammer> Is anyone using the Adaptec 1430SA?
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[17:51:09] <Doomshammer> SATA2 here as well... sorry
[17:51:15] <sickness> heh
[17:51:53] <Doomshammer> the Adaptec controller sounds very interessting as it supports RAID as well as JBOD
[17:52:17] <Doomshammer> as my target is a zpool, jbod is what I'm looking for :)
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[17:53:09] <sickness> yeah, seems nice
[17:53:19] <sickness> have you already tried to ask on the zfs discussion list?
[17:53:30] <Doomshammer> not yet
[17:58:32] <sickness> http://www.adaptec.com/en-US/products/host_tech/sata_drives/AAR-1430SA/
[17:58:46] <sickness> I'd be intersted in this as a cheap jbod
[18:00:06] <RElling> FYI, lots of Sun products use LSI1068/1068 based SATA controllers
[18:01:32] <sickness> Doomshammer: you may want to read this thread http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=96790
[18:04:47] <sickness> from this pic, the chip seems to be the marvell 88sx: http://www.waz.com.br/images/adaptec_1430sa_detalhe.gif
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[18:10:19] <ocr> I have access to this Zone which obviously inherits /opt. I wish to install CSKruby (Coolstack Ruby), which by default installs into /opt/coolstack. I have tried mounting a lofs on /usr/local/coolstack to /opt/coolstack, however It seems impossible, as there is no empty dir /opt/coolstack (no mountpoint).. Is there 1) any way to override this, and create this mount point /opt/coolstack in order so i can lofs-mount, or 2) how do I change the install path
[18:10:36] <cub-> how do I find out the amount of memory installed on an x86 solaris 10 box ?
[18:10:53] <ocr> i.e. mount -O -F lofs /usr/local/coolstack /opt/coolstack
[18:10:58] <ocr> cub-: prtconf
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[18:11:15] <cub-> thanks ocr
[18:11:30] <cub-> i was using  prtdiag -v , and that command on sparc shows memory
[18:13:17] <ocr> afaik prtdiag -v shows CPU info
[18:15:07] <cub-> yes, but in sparc, it also shows "Memory size" on top
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[18:16:24] <ocr> so it does :)
[18:16:32] <ocr> didnt notice until now
[18:17:46] <RElling> try prtconf
[18:17:57] <cub-> yup, that did help
[18:18:16] * the-decider enjoys the new "brand confusion" of the "Sun SPARC Enterprise" line
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[18:22:00] <Doomshammer> sickness: thanks for the hint
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[18:22:15] <ocr> the-: sun has always been in good style obfuscating their product names :D
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[18:23:05] <the-decider> what really confuses me is that they didn't call it the "Java SPARC Enterprise..." line ;)
[18:23:51] <turnip> does anyone know if a gani interface (ethernet) is supported for trunking... not by dladm, but nettr (the solaris trunking app) I cant find the HCL
[18:24:14] <ocr> JRuby SPARC Enterprise :p
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[18:40:41] <Doomshammer> anyone here who is using a Promise SATA300 TX4 with Solaris 10 oder SXCE?
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[18:49:14] <Pietro_S> !
[18:52:20] <dennis-> Doomshammer: did you try it yet?
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[18:56:55] <turnip> ok, by chance does anyone know which driver this card uses Sun 501-5406 / http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-501-5406-Quad-4-port-PCI-Network-Card-X1034A_W0QQitemZ160154702687QQihZ006QQcategoryZ51195QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[18:58:11] <dennis-> if it's the 10mbps version it's qe, if it's 100mbps it's qfe
[18:58:32] <dennis-> in this case it's qfe i guess
[18:58:49] <Doomshammer> dennis: nop.. I need to buy a 4-port PCI (not PCI-e or PCI-X) controller for one of my old servers
[18:59:21] <dennis-> Doomshammer: i have 3 of those running on linux. not tried solaris though
[18:59:27] <Doomshammer> the Promise controller supports 3Gb/s and works with PCI 33/66MHz, so it sounds perfect for my needs
[18:59:37] <turnip> its the 100meg
[18:59:48] <turnip> that is supported in the trunking software eright ?
[19:00:40] <Doomshammer> dennis: would you mind booting a Solaris Live-CD in one of the boxes running that controller?
[19:01:04] <dennis-> Doomshammer: which one?
[19:01:19] <Doomshammer> the Promise SATA300 TX4
[19:01:26] <dennis-> yes, which live-cd?
[19:01:31] <Doomshammer> ahh ok ;-)
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[19:01:58] <dennis-> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=151189
[19:02:06] <dennis-> check this, i guess it answers the question :)
[19:02:07] <Doomshammer> dunno... Nexenta or SchilliX?
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[19:02:31] <dennis-> i am going to replace my promise controllers with an areca card anyway
[19:02:56] <Doomshammer> i haven't found any areca card that supports PCI 33/66MHz
[19:03:15] <turnip> dennis: you're positive its qfe, also I assume it will work on a x86 solaris server ?
[19:04:17] <dennis-> turnip: i guess so
[19:04:24] <dennis-> Doomshammer: there is none
[19:04:32] <dennis-> Doomshammer: only pci-x oder pcie
[19:04:37] <Doomshammer> well, that' my problem :-/
[19:06:36] <turnip> dennis: this one http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-501-5406-Quad-4-port-PCI-Network-Card-X1034A_W0QQitemZ160154702687QQihZ006QQcategoryZ51195QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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[19:08:09] <Doomshammer> dennis: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=31095&tstart=0  <-- there is another thread where it says that the controller works, but there is no answer to the "in SATA/AHCI mode" or "legacy ATA mode"
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[19:10:06] <trs81> Doomshammer: you can get 4 port sil3124 pci cards
[19:10:42] <Doomshammer> but sil3124 is overall reported to be crap and to perform like shit
[19:10:45] <Doomshammer> *g*
[19:11:14] <trs81> someone was saying it was better in b72 ...
[19:11:28] <Doomshammer> well.. b52 here
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[19:38:07] <Triskelios> how do I get smc/webconsole to regenerate SSL certs? it's using an old domain name..
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[19:52:10] <Hobart> Is there a better IRC channel to ask for help w/ Solaris 10?
[19:52:41] <nachox> #solaris _
[19:52:53] <nachox> s/_/?/
[19:52:56] <Hobart> thanks :)
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[20:22:38] <emergo> I need some help to make a clean install of opensolaris. 1. how do I partition it so that I can run liveupdate (or whatever the name of it is). I have a 200gb or 250 gb disk. I also wanna run zfs. . .
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[20:23:57] <sommerfeld> emergo: set up four slices.  note that in the standard sun disk label, slice 2 is reserved as the "overlap" partition (maps the entire disk).
[20:24:26] <sommerfeld> i'd use slice 0 as primary root partition.  slice 1 as swap.  slice 3 as alternate root.  slice 7 for ZFS
[20:24:55] <sommerfeld> 10GB for 0 and 3;  swap slice depending on memory size and workload.
[20:25:09] <sommerfeld> to make transition to all-zfs easier, i'd put slice 7 at the start of the disk
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[20:25:57] <emergo> I have 2gb memory and varying workload :-)
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[20:27:21] <emergo> sommerfeld: ok, So I only need 10gb for alternate root ? isnt there where the liveupgrade does its thing ? I tried it once but got confused.
[20:29:16] <emergo> liveupgrade I mean
[20:31:37] <sommerfeld> well, it depends on how much other stuff you're putting in the root partition vs in ZFS
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[20:32:18] <sommerfeld> you need two equal sized roots for live upgrade; one to run out of and one "standby" that live upgrade copies to and then upgrades
[20:32:41] <sommerfeld> luactivate  + reboot-via-init-6 swaps active and standby
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[20:50:20] <Fish-> hello
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[20:54:53] <Berny> how long does it take until a bug shows up on b.o.o?
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[21:06:18] <pjd-> sommerfeld: Around?
[21:06:26] <elektronkind> hmm
[21:06:33] <elektronkind> !summon gdamore
[21:06:59] <the-decider> *poof* gdamore appears before you.
[21:07:02] <the-decider> You have been eaten by a gru.
[21:07:28] <sommerfeld> Yes
[21:08:07] <elektronkind> a gru? Is that the monster which lurks behind GPL preambles in C source files?
[21:08:12] <pjd-> sommerfeld: I'm trying to understand how objects in DMU looks like.
[21:08:29] <pjd-> sommerfeld: Every object belongs to an objset, right?
[21:08:55] <sommerfeld> that's part of zfs internals which i'm not 100% familiar with
[21:09:00] <pjd-> sommerfeld: So object is for example a file, and objset is file system.
[21:09:35] <sommerfeld> that sounds about right
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[21:10:31] <pjd-> sommerfeld: Can I create a global object? No beeing part of an objset?
[21:10:50] <pjd-> sommerfeld: I may not need that, but would be nice to know.
[21:11:55] <pjd-> sommerfeld: An object doesn't have to be addressable by a name. It is addressable by a number.
[21:12:25] <pjd-> sommerfeld: BTW. I'm thinking about implementing user-level quotas and wondering how hard will that be.
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[21:13:08] <elektronkind> ISTR user level quotas being on the table
[21:14:34] <sommerfeld> pjd: from reading code, it looks there's a "meta objset" for pool-level structures.
[21:16:19] <pjd-> Yeah, pool-level properties have to be implemented somehow.
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[21:17:20] <sommerfeld> it looks like "global" objects would live in the meta-objset
[21:17:22] <millhouse> hey
[21:17:39] <millhouse> what encryption software does solaris have to encrypt whole volumes?
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[21:24:14] <Aison> evening
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[21:25:02] <Aison> I downloaded solaris dvd, on grub bootmenu, I can select Solaris Express and Solaris Express Developer Edition
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[21:26:33] <cmihai> Right.
[21:26:44] <cmihai> Developer Edition installs NetBeans and Sun Studio.
[21:26:49] <cmihai> You can also install them later.
[21:27:02] <cmihai> It also features a different installer, it's more.. straight forward (anal?)
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[21:27:09] <cmihai> What ver, SXCE 72?
[21:27:17] <pauliukas> Yeah... So, I've fallen in love with Solaris.
[21:27:24] <Aison> ok, thx, that's what I thought :)
[21:27:28] <pauliukas> I picked up a few books to read this weekend: http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8035/photo79rc5.jpg
[21:27:52] <Aison> it's the first time im trying solaris :) but I guess I can use parts of my linux knowledge
[21:28:04] <cmihai> You'd better use docs.sun.com
[21:28:07] <cmihai> Just get the admin guide
[21:28:13] <Aison> k
[21:28:23] <pauliukas> I wanted something from A to Z.
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[21:28:29] <pauliukas> Because my knowledge of Linux is hacked up
[21:28:35] <pauliukas> I've all discovered by myself.
[21:28:43] <pauliukas> There are things that I'm probably doing wrong
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[21:30:40] <Dark_Apostrophe> Hello. I'm a long-time Linux user (I've been on Debian for ages). I'm considering giving OpenSolaris a try... does anyone have any screenshots/screencasts of it?
[21:30:45] <Dark_Apostrophe> And can KDE be installed on it?
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[21:31:50] <WickedWicky> KDE is possible, yep
[21:31:54] <Dark_Apostrophe> Ok
[21:31:57] <WickedWicky> have a look at www.blastwave.org
[21:32:02] <WickedWicky> for a debian-like packaging system
[21:32:06] <WickedWicky> pkg-get :)
[21:32:07] <Dark_Apostrophe> So are there any screenshots of the default desktop env?
[21:32:23] <pauliukas> Dark_Apostrophe: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Solaris10.jpg/350px-Solaris10.jpg
[21:32:24] <WickedWicky> the default desktop is Java Desktop System, which is basicly gnome2
[21:32:34] <Triskelios> Dark_Apostrophe: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/jds/
[21:32:34] <Dark_Apostrophe> pauliukas: I've already seen that
[21:32:35] <pauliukas> http://images.google.com/images?q=solaris+10&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi
[21:32:36] <trochej> Dark_Apostrophe: Gnome for SXCE, XFCE or KDE for Belenic
[21:32:38] <Dark_Apostrophe> pauliukas: It's tiny
[21:32:39] <trochej> Belenix
[21:32:48] <pauliukas> Dark_Apostrophe: This better? http://www.osnews.com/img/15911/solaris3.jpg
[21:32:52] <pauliukas> It's 1980 x something
[21:32:53] <Dark_Apostrophe> WickedWicky: Gnome? Damn...
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[21:33:14] <Dark_Apostrophe> Yep, that's GNOME allright.. :/
[21:33:16] <Triskelios> pauliukas: those screenshots are of S10 anyway
[21:33:21] <Dark_Apostrophe> So how's Solaris for gaming?
[21:33:25] <pauliukas> 510?
[21:33:26] <Dark_Apostrophe> Are there any nVidia blobs for it?
[21:33:33] <Triskelios> pauliukas: Solaris 10
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[21:33:42] <pauliukas> Dark_Apostrophe: Solaris is mostly a Server or workstation OS...
[21:33:43] <Triskelios> Dark_Apostrophe: yes, it ships with NVIDIA drivers
[21:33:52] <pauliukas> Triskelios: Well isn't that the newest version?
[21:33:56] <Dark_Apostrophe> pauliukas: So is Linux :P
[21:33:59] <Triskelios> pauliukas: no
[21:34:05] <Triskelios> pauliukas: Express is S11
[21:34:06] <Dark_Apostrophe> Can Linux apps be run on it?
[21:34:14] <pauliukas> Oh...
[21:34:22] <pauliukas> So what is OpenSolaris then
[21:34:23] <pauliukas> ?
[21:34:35] <Triskelios> pauliukas: the basis for Solaris Express and several other distros
[21:34:43] <pauliukas> ah
[21:34:43] <millhouse> what encryption software is there to encrypt volumes?
[21:34:47] <sommerfeld> solaris express builds include binary nvidia drivers
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[21:36:00] <Triskelios> Dark_Apostrophe: you can run Linux programs, but only in a branded zone which is basically a complete linux environment
[21:36:09] <Dark_Apostrophe> Hrm...
[21:36:20] <Dark_Apostrophe> Not much of a point then - All I'd gain is a loss of framerate
[21:37:05] <Triskelios> Dark_Apostrophe: games with source available can be built for Solaris. wine can also be used...
[21:37:34] <Dark_Apostrophe> Well, there's a Linux game - Warsow - that has one f!ck of a trippy compilation system
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[21:38:22] <RElling> sommerfeld: though you might need to download the latest from NVidia, so I discovered last week
[21:38:50] <Triskelios> RElling: depends on how recent your video card is. the SXCE drivers can be one or two releases behind...
[21:39:28] <sommerfeld> right, nvidia seems to have forked its driver; newest one doesn't support all the old devices.
[21:39:41] <millhouse> how do you disable apache1?
[21:39:48] <Dark_Apostrophe> anyway, thanks, guys
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[21:40:14] <sommerfeld> so we're in the awkward position of having to drop support for older cards (or have them fall back to the lower-capability open source driver)
[21:40:17] <Dark_Apostrophe> I think I'll stick with Debian for a while longer. :)
[21:40:38] <RElling> I had bought a new card... ok it worked out of the box, but with the Mesa drivers which seem very buggy
[21:40:52] <RElling> using the latest NVidia drivers was the fix
[21:40:53] <weizenmann> <@sommerfeld> so we're in the awkward position of having to drop support for
[21:40:54] <weizenmann>               older cards (or have them fall back to the lower-capability open
[21:40:54] <weizenmann>               source driver)
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[21:41:13] <pauliukas> lol
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[21:42:04] <Triskelios> millhouse: I think apache1 is handled by an old init script, it probably checks for the existence of /etc/apache/httpd.conf
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[21:43:04] <millhouse> Triskelios:  ah, yes.  thanks.
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[21:44:02] <millhouse> i'm trying to setup SAMP
[21:44:18] <Triskelios> SXCE doesn't ship with apache1 anymore, afaik
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[21:46:39] <Triskelios> pauliukas: http://trisk.acm.jhu.edu/sxce.png is a more typical SXCE screenshot
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[21:46:59] <pauliukas> oh wow...
[21:47:05] <pauliukas> But that's not a default theme is it?
[21:47:22] <Triskelios> it is the default Nimbus theme
[21:47:28] <pauliukas> Nimbus... being?
[21:47:29] <Triskelios> with compiz enabled, though
[21:47:42] <gdamore> elektronkind: you asked for me?
[21:47:43] <Triskelios> Sun's GNOME theme
[21:48:21] <pauliukas> Does solaris have good support for Laptops or no?
[21:48:37] <pauliukas> And wifi?
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[21:48:41] <pauliukas> Probably not.
[21:48:43] <Triskelios> it's okay, no suspend on x86 yet
[21:48:50] <Triskelios> wifi works fine
[21:48:59] <pauliukas> I'm more concerned power-wise.
[21:49:02] <pauliukas> Like throttling the CPU down.
[21:49:18] <Triskelios> there is speedstep (and powernow with frkit)
[21:49:30] <pauliukas> AMD processor, so PowerNow.
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[21:49:59] <Triskelios> yeah, I think powernow doesn't work for multi-core yet. speedstep was just fixed in b72
[21:50:05] <pauliukas> I had no idea that ZFS had a web thingy?
[21:50:07] * quasi wants quad core barcelona _now_
[21:50:12] <pauliukas> Triskelios: It's an old laptop. AMD 2500+
[21:50:15] <Triskelios> that's the solaris web console
[21:50:17] <pauliukas> So it's only 1 core.
[21:50:33] <pauliukas> Triskelios: You think it's worth a try or no?
[21:50:43] <quasi> Triskelios: sure? I thought the entry in the changelog hinted at supporting most amd bits as well
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[21:52:11] <pauliukas> yes? no? maybe?
[21:52:23] <Triskelios> pauliukas: I would check the specific hardware components
[21:52:34] <Triskelios> pauliukas: I'm fairly happy with my laptop
[21:52:54] <Triskelios> quasi: hm... there were desktop-discuss postings that indicated otherwise
[21:53:07] <pauliukas> Where would I find a list or something?
[21:53:19] <pauliukas> or some hinting onto what's compatible and/or not.
[21:53:20] <Triskelios> pauliukas: there is a Solaris HCL
[21:53:27] <quasi> Triskelios: mmmkay, that place is too indiana infested for me to read ;)
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[21:53:50] <Triskelios> pauliukas: googling (or searching the list archives) also helps
[21:54:25] <pauliukas> fuck it. I'm going for it.
[21:54:33] <pauliukas> Gonna grab a spare laptop HDD and try on it.
[21:54:39] <Triskelios> heh
[21:55:03] <pauliukas> A few friends are "storing" their laptops at my place...
[21:55:18] <pauliukas> Needed to be reformatted but forgot the A/C adapters at their home in the US.
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[21:55:29] <pauliukas> They've been gathering dust now for about a year.
[21:55:31] <Triskelios> heh...
[21:55:40] <pauliukas> Using a hard drive for a little while doesn't harm anyone.
[21:56:00] <Triskelios> a friend also left a small pile of laptops here, sans drive cases and power adapters..
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[21:58:31] <Triskelios> beware, though, SXCE is RAM-hungry (512MB is a realistic minimum)
[21:58:45] <pauliukas> Yeah. I got 512 on my laptop
[21:59:42] <pauliukas> alright
[21:59:47] <pauliukas> got the Solaris Express DVD in there.
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[22:03:41] <pauliukas> alright... it's installing
[22:03:44] <pauliukas> wait, I got an idae!
[22:04:38] <pauliukas> http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/6876/photo80te3.jpg
[22:04:45] <pauliukas> Sorry for the pointlessness of this.
[22:05:22] <Triskelios> heh
[22:06:27] <pauliukas> Alright, well. The cpu isn't lowering it's clock
[22:06:46] <pauliukas> You think there's still a chance of getting it to work after the install
[22:06:47] <pauliukas> ?
[22:07:03] <Triskelios> still needs the powernow driver from frkit, as I mentioned
[22:07:06] <millhouse> pauliukas:  how do you enable the web interface for ZFS?
[22:07:16] <Triskelios> millhouse: svcadm enable webconsole
[22:07:33] <gdamore> !summon elektronkind
[22:07:37] <Triskelios> millhouse: https://server:6789/
[22:07:38] <pauliukas> what exactly is frkit?
[22:07:47] <elektronkind> heh hey gdamore :)
[22:07:56] <gdamore> you summoned me earlier.
[22:08:15] <elektronkind> gdamore: indeed, I have a interface question for you...
[22:08:19] <millhouse> right now it only works for https://127.0.0.1:6789
[22:08:50] <Triskelios> pauliukas: a tool that installs Casper Dik's addons - http://opensolaris.org/os/community/laptop/frkit/
[22:08:54] <elektronkind> gdamore: do you know of a #define'd limit on the number of plumbed (or unplumbed for that matter) interfaces a solaris box could have?
[22:09:05] <pauliukas> oh... neat
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[22:09:15] <gdamore> for a typical solaris NIC driver, it is usually 999.
[22:09:27] <gdamore> because after that PPA, VLAN parsing is used for PPA numbers.
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[22:10:04] <gdamore> but that's just for one driver.  with VLANs and multple drivers, its possible, I believe, to have many more than that.
[22:10:18] <gdamore> one of the NICDRV tests configures all 4095 possible VLAN IDs.
[22:11:29] <Triskelios> pauliukas: you should only need the powernow driver; the others are mostly redundant now
[22:11:38] <pauliukas> gotcha.
[22:11:40] <gdamore> was that enough of an answer?
[22:11:41] <pauliukas> thanks for the help.
[22:12:12] <ocr> Anybody installed Ghostscript? ifso => how?
[22:12:15] <Triskelios> pauliukas: what wireless card do you have, btw?
[22:12:26] <ocr> >GS 8.2
[22:12:30] <pauliukas> D-link something
[22:12:34] <pauliukas> Atheros.
[22:13:01] <Triskelios> pauliukas: coincidentally, 'ath' is the most mature wireless driver...
[22:13:07] <pauliukas> neato :-)
[22:13:26] <gdamore> ath on x86 is very good.  ath on sparc is non-existent.
[22:14:07] <Triskelios> gdamore: what wireless options do the Tadpoles ship with?
[22:14:27] <gdamore> prism only at this time, I believe.
[22:14:37] <gdamore> (802.11b)
[22:14:44] <Triskelios> ah
[22:14:47] <gdamore> the problem is that the only viable solution would be ath.
[22:15:03] <gdamore> but that requires *someone* to spend a few grand to pay for Sam Leffler to port the HAL to the Solaris version of the SPARC.
[22:15:14] <RElling> ocr: I just install SXCE/SXDE, ghostscript is in /usr/sfw/bin/gs
[22:15:18] <Triskelios> yeah, the binary HAL is a problem...
[22:15:21] <gdamore> (different compiler flags from Linux or *BSD, basically)
[22:16:01] <gdamore> sam says it would probably only take him an hour or two to do the work, but he wants a few $K to do the work.  which is actually not unreasonable.
[22:16:18] <RElling> I have a prism 2.5 which works fine under pcwl
[22:16:23] <gdamore> because he then promises to keep the SPARC/Soalris version up to date forever.
[22:16:39] <gdamore> prism 2.5 on Tadpole uses my "ipw" driver.
[22:17:03] <gdamore> "ipw" from Tadpole means "Intersil Prism Wireless".... I cam up with that driver name *long* before Sun use ipw for Intel Pro Wireless. :-(
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[22:17:40] <gdamore> you could use pcwl as well, but the pcwl driver is totally busted for miniPCI prism 2.5.  For PCMCIA, pcwl should work fine though.
[22:17:41] <ocr> RElling: I'm trying to install some software on a Zone of a customer (not a server maintained by me), it seems the server is verymuch out of date, and that the Zone inherits most from the Globalzone.. GS is installed, but v7.07, I need >= 8.2 to install ImageMagick properly. How should I go ahead on this??# Is there any way for me to update the SFW tree?
[22:18:07] <Triskelios> pauliukas: svcadm disable network/physical:default; svcadm enable nwam will enable the Network Auto-Magic system which makes wireless roaming easy
[22:18:08] <gdamore> (there are some nasty chip errata for the PRISM 2.5 that pcwl doesn't have workarounds for)
[22:20:23] <RElling> ocr: looks like b70 has 8.15 in it, so it won't help you.  suggest you get the source and compile
[22:20:54] <RElling> IIRC the last time I compiled ghostscript for Solaris, it wasn't called Solaris :-)
[22:20:57] <elektronkind> gdamore: cool. thanks for the info. I'm making an array of interfaces and I'm just wondering how large I should make it ;)
[22:21:20] <jbk> afternoon
[22:21:22] <ocr> RElling: tried compiling ghostscript already, too many cryptic error messages to even relay
[22:21:51] <ocr> GS 8.15 should do, I'll just install a slightly older ImageMagick
[22:21:57] <Triskelios> ocr: have you tried SUNWimagick?
[22:21:58] <RElling> gdamore: mine has been flaky lately, but even when I'm not running Solaris... hopefully it will completely die soon so I can get a new laptop...
[22:22:23] <gdamore> elektronkind: "arbitrarily big"
[22:22:42] <ocr> Triskelios: naw, the SFW installed is way out of date.. I bet there are some iffy dependencies there
[22:23:26] <ocr>  5.10 Generic_118822-19 sun4u sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-V210
[22:23:41] <gdamore> also, if you allow for VLANs, logical interfaces, etc.... the list can in theory be quite large.  I wouldn't use a value less than 64K unless I was willing to accept that my app would break in some unusual stress/test scenarios.  But I would probalby use a linked list instead.
[22:24:02] <Triskelios> ocr: can you LU?
[22:24:39] <gdamore> RElling: there are some firmware updates for PRISM 2.5.   You should get them.  It helps with stability quite a bit.  But the chip errata is still there, and the device driver has to work around it.  (The errata has a performance implication as well.)
[22:24:57] <ocr> Triskelios: I very much doubt it
[22:25:09] <gdamore> Basically, the chip cannot queue up TX while doing RX, or vice versa.  Even though it *should* be able to.  (Non-PCI versions can.)
[22:25:23] <ocr> Triskelios: dont have access to the globalzone
[22:26:15] <Triskelios> ocr: ouch. well, looks like SUNWimagick was included in S10 11/06, are you sure it's not installed?
[22:26:54] <ocr> aye
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[22:29:41] <RElling> ocr: SUNWgscr is a relocatable package, you should be able to grab the stuff out of the package if you can't pkgadd
[22:30:00] <Triskelios> ditto for SUNWimagick...
[22:30:53] <RElling> also, source is available in SUNWgscrS (cleverly not installed by the installer under normal circumstances) or you might look at http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/sfwnv/
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[22:34:15] <ocr> RElling: where can i download SUNWgscr (dont have access to the DVDs now)
[22:36:55] <ocr> can anybody send me SUNWgscr.pkg.bz2 && SUNWgscrS.pkg.bz2? (for SPARC)
[22:37:08] <ocr> I dont even have SUNWpro installed
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[22:37:48] <trygvis> blastwave has both screen and imagemagic
[22:39:02] <RElling> yeah, it might be faster to go to blastwave or http://www.sunfreeware.com/indexsparc10.html
[22:39:24] <ocr> trygvis: if I only had the possibility to use BW
[22:39:27] <ocr> :)
[22:39:42] <Triskelios> ocr: /opt is inherited?
[22:39:46] <ocr> aye
[22:39:49] <ocr> and /usr too
[22:40:08] <ocr> and there are no empty dirs, so i cant loopbackmount stuff :)
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[22:45:20] <bda> Create a ZFS fs and add it as a dataset. Then mount that on top of whatever inherited dir you want.
[22:50:05] <ocr> good idea
[22:50:29] <bda> I do it for the very same reason, heh.
[22:50:39] <ocr> if i only had access to the globalzone...
[22:50:58] <bda> Yeah, that would be a requirement.
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[22:51:54] <ocr> i managed to overlay loopbackmount /opt/csw to /local/csw now
[22:52:03] <ocr> installing blastwave now
[22:53:17] <Triskelios> I have b63 builds of SUNWgscr and SUNWimagick as tarballs (don't have access to install media atm)
[22:54:39] <ocr> Triskelios: I just managed to lofsmount /local/csw to /opt/csw
[22:54:50] <ocr> Triskelios: in the process of updating CSW now
[22:54:56] <Triskelios> k
[23:00:34] <FireflyST> Triskelios: Sup man
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[23:03:16] <richlowe> evenin' comay
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[23:03:32] <comay> hey there rich
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[23:05:16] * jmcp yawns
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[23:07:15] <Doc> morning jmcp
[23:07:20] <jbk> morning
[23:09:08] <jmcp> hi doc, jbk
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[23:17:22] <benr> anyone an RBAC elite?
[23:18:42] <hali> i dabble
[23:18:56] <hali> just newtask it
[23:19:15] <jbk> benr: what are you wanting to do?
[23:19:31] <benr> I'm curious if anyone knows why this doesn't work:
[23:19:51] <benr> Zone Management
[23:19:51] <benr> ZFS File System Management
[23:19:51] <benr> Basic Solaris User
[23:19:51] <benr> All
[23:19:53] <benr> zlogin: You lack sufficient privilege to run this command (all privs required)
[23:20:01] <benr> thats being done as a user, not a role.
[23:20:53] <richlowe> not using a profile shell, or pfexec.
[23:21:00] <richlowe> (that's my guess, anyway)
[23:21:02] <RElling> what does /etc/user_attr entry look like?
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[23:21:25] <benr> benr::::type=normal;profiles=Zone Management,ZFS File System Management
[23:21:34] * benr tries changing shells.
[23:22:01] <benr> that was it.
[23:22:08] <jbk> or just pfexec /usr/sbin/zlogin ...
[23:22:11] <benr> $ /usr/sbin/zlogin z010101FB
[23:22:11] <benr> [Connected to zone 'z010101FB' pts/4]
[23:22:48] <jbk> should probably file an rfe for pfbash & pfzsh
[23:22:59] <benr> exactly what i was just thinking.
[23:23:07] <jbk> can't imagine it'd be more than 10-20 lines of code once the api is deciphered
[23:23:11] <benr> pf* shells are just hard links right... can't be that hard.
[23:23:22] <wesolows> oh but we can't change the source code!
[23:23:49] <wesolows> we might have to add a few lines to look at argv[0], and that would mean CHANGING OPEN SOURCE!!!  o noes!!!
[23:24:16] <sommerfeld> gah.
[23:24:17] <benr> :)
[23:24:19] <hali> gpl3 for all!
[23:24:32] <sommerfeld> i do my best to fight against that 'tude when it surfaces in psarc
[23:24:49] <wesolows> Seriously, there seems to be a strong bias toward not changing third party source, even if it would make for fewer bugs/better integration/a better customer experience.
[23:25:18] <sommerfeld> there's a very real cost to maintaining the diffs
[23:25:26] <Triskelios> FireflyST: yo, going to look at the driver in a minute
[23:25:27] <wesolows> sommerfeld: I think we just need to establish a policy stating that if it's in the WOS, it's by definition NOT "third-party"
[23:25:50] <sommerfeld> but some people overstate it, and/or turn shades of grey into a black/white thing.
[23:25:51] <wesolows> You want to deliver third-party add-ons, you want a separate product.
[23:25:53] <FireflyST> Triskelios: It just occurred to me that one of the failed codecs might be the speaker
[23:25:56] <jbk> or you could always try to get the changes accepted by whoever's maintaining the software
[23:26:03] <wesolows> I'm not arguing for spurious changes.
[23:26:16] <wesolows> Any more than I'd argue for spurious change to any code.
[23:26:38] <Triskelios> FireflyST: there's only one codec chip, but the driver isn't setting up the pins correctly
[23:26:50] <sommerfeld> oh, sure, but "pf*sh" support might well be seen as spurious by people who don't understand RBAC
[23:26:58] <richlowe> jbk: the profile shell bits are pretty simple to do.
[23:26:59] <wesolows> jbk: *which* software, though?  Software isn't copied by reference.  The software in our gates is maintained by us.  Software on someone else's FTP site is maintained by someone else.
[23:27:10] <richlowe> jbk: the problem is that bash is fairly unnecessarily convoluted.
[23:27:33] <richlowe> and as is currently being argued, the complete lack of desire in these parts to actualy deliver a system.
[23:27:43] <FireflyST> Triskelios: like I said though, it's not 100% broken, I get sound from both headphone jacks
[23:27:49] <richlowe> Sun should start shipping a dvd full of packages, and some duct tape.
[23:27:59] <richlowe> rather than burying the same thing in metaphor and excuse.
[23:28:12] <wesolows> I don't pretend that I fully understand all the nuances of RBAC.  But it's still obvious to me that RBAC is an important feature which should be completely integrated with other features, including shells.
[23:28:18] <sommerfeld> and then we'll have an argument about whether gaffer's tape or duct tape is better.
[23:28:31] <richlowe> it's far more obvious to me that when people are saying "We need to make $FOO the default!!!"
[23:28:36] <wesolows> Yeah, I could see that happening in PSARC.
[23:28:38] <FireflyST> that tape needs a cute mascot *ducks*
[23:28:39] <richlowe> if $FOO has no profile equivalent, the answer must always be "No"
[23:28:43] <wesolows> Or on os-discuss.
[23:28:46] <richlowe> it's the sudo argument all over again.
[23:28:56] <richlowe> "we want sudo!", "You need audit support then, and pam...", "Uh well, uh..."
[23:29:08] <hali> just grab stephen bourne and make him rewrite bash as rash
[23:29:27] <wesolows> richlowe: Actually today we seem to be leaning toward not having the duct versus gaffer's argument and just not bothering to ship the tape at all.
[23:30:06] <wesolows> You get a DVD with some stuff we found on the internet and typed a few lines of stuff until we got it to compile.
[23:30:25] <wesolows> Since the business model has worked so well for Red Hat, we don't feel we should attempt to add any value on top of that.
[23:30:32] <wesolows> Have at it, folks!
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[23:31:30] <sommerfeld> i think we're going to have to settle for attempting to keep the core concave.
[23:33:27] <sommerfeld> gah.  i mean "convex".  which is to say, core packages depend only on other core packages.
[23:33:52] <pauliukas> Does booting up solaris always take half an hour?
[23:34:13] <richlowe> No, the manifest import only runs the first time (and on upgrade, etc)
[23:34:13] <wesolows> That seems a reasonable definition of "core" but it doesn't help answer questions about how well non-core software should be integrated (ie, how much of the core it should depend on).
[23:34:32] <elektronkind> ie, when
[23:34:33] <richlowe> wesolows: any software delivered and supported as part of the real 'product', should be well integrated and fit as a cohesive system.
[23:34:36] <pauliukas> Okay. Thank god.
[23:34:51] <Doc> you're welcome
[23:35:01] <elektronkind> ie, when is the tipping point? Example: OpenSSL. It was SFW, but seeped in as a coredependency
[23:35:02] <richlowe> there's a thousand solutions for amorphous piles of crap, if people want them.
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[23:36:33] <theRealballchalk> hey guys off topic sorry but how important is free software?
[23:36:41] <jmcp> very
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[23:36:50] * the-decider likes free beer more than free software
[23:36:52] <richlowe> kupfer: Hey.
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[23:37:03] <kupfer> hey, I was just looking for you, Rich
[23:37:04] <theRealballchalk> and how is it important?
[23:37:08] <richlowe> kupfer: I just sent you two badly worded and confusing emails, feel free to ask for translation into words that make sense :)
[23:37:14] <kupfer> :-)
[23:37:15] <richlowe> ah, apparently you beat me to it. :)
[23:37:42] <kupfer> so, yeah, I can't find the webrev for the hg backup thing you mentioned
[23:37:46] <benr> theRealballchalk, how is freedom important?
[23:38:03] <benr> theRealballchalk, how is the exchange of ideas important?
[23:38:11] <wesolows> elektronkind: I see openssl as a poster child for doing it correctly
[23:38:12] <benr> theRealballchalk, how is air important?
[23:38:25] * benr points to the hundreds of books on free software out there.
[23:38:40] <wesolows> elektronkind: take the source apart, use the pieces you need, put them in the right place, and don't be afraid to fix bugs in it
[23:38:56] <pauliukas> What should I chose?
[23:38:59] <pauliukas> Gnome or CDE?
[23:39:09] <wesolows> pauliukas: try each and see what you prefer?
[23:39:10] <theRealballchalk> the reason i'm asking is due to some ppl believing that it's more about hypocrisy surrounding the free software issue when one can't afford commercial softwares - i don't believe that it tho
[23:39:13] <FireflyST> gnome, IMNSHO
[23:39:22] <pauliukas> wesolows: what's the difference?
[23:39:25] <theRealballchalk> atleast there's a flame going on about it
[23:39:26] <FireflyST> none of my opinions are humble, kthx
[23:39:41] <wesolows> pauliukas: they're just very different look and feel, different feature sets, just...different.
[23:39:47] <wesolows> pauliukas: CDE uses MUCH less memory
[23:39:50] <pauliukas> oh...
[23:39:59] <wesolows> pauliukas: GNOME has FAR more software and features
[23:40:06] <benr> theRealballchalk, this isn't the appropriate forum for that type of philosophical discussion.
[23:40:06] <wesolows> CDE is MUCH more stable
[23:40:10] <wesolows> GNOME is FAR more hip
[23:40:13] <FireflyST> cde can be hell to customize though
[23:40:15] <pauliukas> http://www.mie.utoronto.ca/computing/cde-screen.gif
[23:40:16] <theRealballchalk> benr: thanks
[23:40:17] <pauliukas> That's CDE?
[23:40:33] <wesolows> pauliukas: Why not just try each one for a few days and see what you prefer?
[23:40:40] <pauliukas> Wow. I love the Gnome look
[23:40:54] <wesolows> Yes, that screen shot is the default CDE look and feel.
[23:41:01] <wesolows> It is customisable to a degree.
[23:41:05] <wesolows> As is GNOME.
[23:41:36] <palowoda> Have a little fun use Compiz and Gnome.
[23:42:01] <wesolows> The other thing to consider is that CDE is Obsolete will be presumably be removed in some future release.
[23:42:24] <alanc> parts of CDE are already being removed
[23:42:32] <wesolows> Many people feel that this is unfortunate, given the horrible defects in its only currently shipping alternative.  But it is also closed-sourcce and extremely old.
[23:42:36] <alanc> sdtimage is gone, sdtmail removal case is at LSARC now
[23:42:58] <palowoda> dtlogin and dtsession is next.
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[23:45:26] <alanc> dtlogin will actually be a while, since it's still the default login gui
[23:45:35] <wesolows> thank god
[23:45:59] <wesolows> switching to xdm would be ok, but that's the sort of thing that deserves migration help
[23:46:00] <alanc> and we can't decide if gdm is acceptable with no "command line login" option, or if virtual consoles on x86 and a handful of SPARC machines is close enough
[23:46:24] <wesolows> I don't think that's close enough
[23:46:51] <wesolows> unless, as part of the upgrade, console login became the default
[23:46:58] <wesolows> for machines that don't have VC
[23:47:07] <alanc> dtlogin -> xdm is mostly copying the config files to new places, since they use the same configuration framework, but gdm is certain to be the replacement for dtlogin, since it supports accessibility helpers for login and xdm doesn't
[23:47:52] <wesolows> not being able to get a console login on machines without VCs would be a showstopper
[23:48:07] <wesolows> in that scenario, how do I test changes to my X config?  How do I recover if it's wrong?
[23:48:11] <pauliukas> Holy f**k!
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[23:48:16] <FireflyST> that would be bad
[23:48:19] <pauliukas> OpenSolaris has atheros built-in.
[23:48:22] <wesolows> power-cycle the box and use -s?  That's not an answer.
[23:48:26] <FireflyST> is Compiz available as a package yet?
[23:48:31] <pauliukas> My wifi card is easier to install in Solaris than in Windows!
[23:48:32] <pauliukas> w00t
[23:48:43] <richlowe> wesolows: wait for X to fail, the gdm service to give up retrying, then log in on the console.
[23:48:47] <richlowe> that isn't an answer either.
[23:48:57] <FireflyST> pauliukas: yeah, my wifi worked pretty much right away too, I just installed last night
[23:48:58] <alanc> no one seems to believe me that command line login is needed functionality though - we'll see when they come to ARC the change, but for now they're waiting for virtual consoles to integrate first
[23:49:05] <pauliukas> Oh, also...
[23:49:10] <pauliukas> How do I make it use WPA.
[23:49:18] <pauliukas> In the connection properties, I only see WEP key.
[23:49:24] <sommerfeld> alanc: i think command line login is mandatory functionality
[23:49:25] <wesolows> richlowe: That's not always workable, though - I have a configuration, for instance, that successfully starts the X server but in an unusable way (massive screen corruption)
[23:49:44] <richlowe> Yeah, that was part of why it wasn't a suitable answer either.
[23:49:51] <wesolows> It's just not good enough.
[23:50:08] <FireflyST> pauliukas: may have to do a command line config
[23:50:11] <pauliukas> darn...
[23:50:14] <pauliukas> How does that work?
[23:50:31] <alanc> when we first got Ferrari 4000 laptops, had to teach users to Ctrl-Alt-Backspace 5 times, waiting for X server reset between them, to get to a console login to fix their xorg.conf, since the default config initially was the VGA port, not the laptop panel
[23:50:37] <comay> alanc: why was it again that the same hack^H^H^H^Hmethod dtlogin uses can't be used by gdm?
[23:51:33] <alanc> don't remember the details other than the ARC's telling dtlogin the hack was so bad, they'd refuse to approve any new dtlogin cases until they got a real solution, and they just decided instead to never add new features to dtlogin
[23:52:22] <sommerfeld> grrr.
[23:52:34] <alanc> (which is one of the holes in the ARC process - the ARC's can only do anything when you have something new to review - they can't get changes in existing code that's lying dormant)
[23:52:46] <Triskelios> FireflyST: compiz is in SFE if you don't mind building packages yourself
[23:52:53] <wesolows> How is that a hole?  Seems to me that the problem was approving the hack in the first place.
[23:53:08] <alanc> I think there was discussion in the SMF case of the console login service issues
[23:53:49] <wesolows> The real problem is that the ARC can't force people to fund needed changes.
[23:53:52] <Triskelios> pauliukas: nwam is supposed to support WPA
[23:53:53] <alanc> wesolows: it's more of a hole when the system changes around you - like when SMF replaces /etc/init.d, but all the old bits delivering to init.d aren't being touched, so never get asked to convert to SMF
[23:53:56] <FireflyST> pauliukas: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/laptop/wireless/ <- should give you some info
[23:54:11] <pauliukas> "WPA-PSK support was integrated into OpenSolaris build 64."
[23:54:16] <sommerfeld> wesolows: lots of cruft gets past the arc in the name of "we need to ship something right now"
[23:54:16] <wesolows> So instead of the right thing getting done, either the thing never gets putback or the project team goes and gets an exception and then never does any of the improvements.
[23:54:17] <pauliukas> Shows that for atheros.
[23:54:25] <pauliukas> If it's built-in... How do I use it!
[23:54:29] <wesolows> sommerfeld: Exactly.  That's what I'm hoping OpenSolaris can fix.
[23:54:30] <Gman> pauliukas, config dialog probably doesn't support it yet, use dladm
[23:54:37] <Triskelios> pauliukas: are you using nwam?
[23:54:42] <wesolows> Since the "we" and "ship" don't make sense outside the context of Sun.
[23:54:42] <pauliukas> I have no idea.
[23:54:51] <richlowe> wesolows: no, because the "we" just file the case closed and try to ship crap anyway.
[23:54:51] <FireflyST> I'm still wondering why the wired ethernet was set up as the primary interface
[23:54:56] <pauliukas> I tried using the Gnome GUI thing.
[23:54:57] <Triskelios> pauliukas: svcadm disable network/physical:default; svcadm enable nwam
[23:54:59] <richlowe> I can name at least one, and maybe two recent examples.
[23:55:07] <wesolows> richlowe: Only if it's not targetting an Open consolidation, eh?
[23:55:12] <richlowe> I think one of them is one Bill ranted about without naming, in fact.
[23:55:14] <pauliukas> Triskelios: And what does that do?
[23:55:15] <FireflyST> Triskelios: I bet you're feeling some deja vu, sir :)
[23:56:02] <alanc> except there are no consolidations that only accept open ARC cases yet - or perhaps, there's just no truly Open consolidations yet
[23:56:05] <Triskelios> FireflyST: hah, yeah
[23:56:22] <pauliukas> Triskelios: "nwam doesn't match any instances"
[23:56:32] <alanc> at least we can now say Etude, though it's ARC review was closed
[23:56:57] <Triskelios> pauliukas: uhh... this is SXCE b62 or later?
[23:57:05] <pauliukas> How do I check?
[23:57:11] <pauliukas> I downloaded it a few months back.
[23:57:14] <Triskelios> pauliukas: uname -a
[23:57:16] <Triskelios> ah
[23:57:25] <pauliukas> snv_56
[23:57:26] <Triskelios> it's probably quite out of date then
[23:57:28] <Triskelios> wow
[23:58:23] <pauliukas> what should I do
[23:58:24] <pauliukas> ?
[23:58:47] <Triskelios> pauliukas: you'll want to upgrade for WPA
[23:59:07] <Triskelios> b56 is like 6 months old...
[23:59:39] <comay> http://blog.mozilla.com/rob-sayre/2007/09/06/land-of-dtrace/
[23:59:53] <pauliukas> redownload the whole bloody thing?





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