[00:00:14] <CIA-26> haimay: 6596364 pkcs11 engine cannot be used with apache due to SSL_R_DIGEST_CHECK_FAILED error
[00:01:30] <DoYouKnow> *nix is very interesting. it definitely takes a while to get the hang of it, but most of all ask questions on IRC. That has helped me a ton
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[00:01:39] <DoYouKnow> manpages are great too
[00:01:53] <DoYouKnow> and so is the documentation availible through google
[00:01:56] <DoYouKnow> and sun.com
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[00:15:45] <nachox> ops. closed the lid of the laptop
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[00:29:46] <flyingparchment> can you authenticate to a Kerberos KDC with an SSH public key?
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[00:31:53] <Aison> hello
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[00:32:59] <jbk> flyingparchment: in theory, though i'm not sure any kdc implementations support it, and there are probably side issues that might make it a bit tricky
[00:33:15] <jbk> the kdc would probably need to know your unencrypted private key to start with
[00:33:36] <flyingparchment> jbk: hmm.. is there anything similar?  even a not-ssh-compatible system for krb that works similarly?
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[00:33:59] <jbk> well the thing is/ ssh + kerberos can interact
[00:34:22] <jbk> i.e. you login to a system and obtain your credentials, then ssh supports forwarding them on via gssapi I believe
[00:34:45] <jbk> so that you can connect to another system without having to enter a password, like with public-key authentication
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[00:35:01] <Pietro_S> for example kerberorized ssh, won't ask on password if you have kerberos credential, but not sure if you ask on this direction
[00:35:15] <flyingparchment> jbk: right.. but then if i log in with ssh key, i still have to klogin before kerberos knows me, right?
[00:35:27] <jbk> i believe so
[00:36:26] <jbk> whatever you password is in kerberos, that is used to obtain your ticket
[00:37:22] <jbk> possible (my kerberos is more than a bit rusty) if it supported the notion of multiple passwords, in theory if you had your private key stored in kerberos, it could serve the same function
[00:37:37] <jbk> but i can't remember enough of the other operations to know if that would cause issues
[00:38:27] <ylon> flyingparchment: I've been reading some about nwam and it appears that it may be a "good thing."  I'm checking out the project page right now; what is the new way to config the network with nwam?
[00:38:50] <flyingparchment> ylon: i don't know; i've never used solaris in an environment (e.g. desktop) where nwam makes sense, so i use the old method
[00:39:01] <ylon> ah
[00:39:08] <jbk> if i remember correctly, what happens is whatever your password is, that is used to encrypt your ticket (which itself is only decipherable by the kdc)
[00:39:21] <flyingparchment> well, i have used solaris on the desktop, but nwam didn't exist then :)
[00:39:58] <Pietro_S> hmm, theorically you can obtain credentials after shh key login, in same matter as you get credentials from card (but it would mean that your kerberos is as strong ans your ssh daemon, which is unwanted)
[00:40:15] <ylon> seems like nwam should be a simple solution, but for some reason its escaping me; perhaps so new that the config method is not in place... hmm
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[00:43:11] <flyingparchment> ylon: i've heard that if you log into JDS, there is some tool(s) to configure nwam
[00:43:17] <flyingparchment> ylon: ubuntu-style
[00:44:34] <ylon> whoa, this is strange... I left the newly installed machine for about 3 hours and now when I came back it appears that the unit is frozen.
[00:44:44] <ylon> the monitor won't come out of sleep
[00:44:53] <ylon> and the hd is not working, however they are getting pretty warm
[00:45:18] <ylon> boy oh boy; could there be some sort of power management issue at play?
[00:45:42] <nachox> tried pinging it?
[00:46:04] * flyingparchment accidentally built onnv with studio 12 and has to wait another 24 hours now :(
[00:46:19] <nachox> flyingparchment, it actually built?
[00:46:31] <flyingparchment> no, it appeared to finish but there were lots of errors
[00:46:38] <ylon> nachox: I was trying to figure out the network... :)  so no, I can't tell
[00:46:48] <WickedWicky> it builds when using __SSNEXT=""; export __SSNEXT
[00:46:57] <Aison> I downloaded opensolaris express, now mounted the iso in vmware (would like to test it first). grub is booting, but then I only see the grub console, nothing to select.
[00:47:02] <Aison> Sorry for this noob question
[00:47:05] <WickedWicky> the results arent satisfactionary though
[00:47:06] <nachox> __SSNEXT?
[00:47:10] <WickedWicky> yes
[00:47:15] <WickedWicky> next Sun Studio
[00:47:26] <nachox> that's cool
[00:47:58] <Pietro_S> WickedWicky: so it build, but doesn' work?
[00:48:04] <WickedWicky> it works
[00:48:11] <WickedWicky> but I had random crashes
[00:48:16] <ylon> how resilient is the filesystem in cases like this where you have to kill the power in order to bring it back up?
[00:48:19] <nachox> uncool
[00:48:23] <WickedWicky> yes but
[00:48:31] <WickedWicky> I will retest with SS12
[00:48:32] <ylon> (not using zfs on root)
[00:48:35] <WickedWicky> I have new hardware
[00:48:36] <WickedWicky> :)
[00:48:49] <nachox> what did you buy? :)
[00:49:00] <WickedWicky> Athlon 4400+
[00:49:05] <WickedWicky> 64 bit dual core
[00:49:09] <nachox> cool
[00:49:16] <Pietro_S> WickedWicky: looks like you have new toy to play over weekend ;-)
[00:49:21] <WickedWicky> ya
[00:49:24] <nachox> how much ram?
[00:49:28] <WickedWicky> 2GB
[00:49:36] <WickedWicky> DDR2 800
[00:49:45] <nachox> should have bought at least 4 ;)
[00:49:48] <WickedWicky> cant
[00:49:56] <WickedWicky> mainboard only has 2 banks
[00:49:59] <flyingparchment> i have a dual core athlon too!
[00:50:04] <flyingparchment> 2x 1.2GHz Athlon MP!
[00:50:07] <ylon> any thoughts on that?
[00:50:10] <WickedWicky> ylon: ZFS will survive
[00:50:10] <holcomb> bah.
[00:50:14] <holcomb> System Configuration:  Sun Microsystems  sun4u Netra t1 (UltraSPARC-IIi 440MHz)
[00:50:16] <flyingparchment> <- not hip
[00:50:22] <ylon> yeah, but as I mentioned, its not zfs... :\
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[00:50:34] <WickedWicky> oh I didnt see what you're using, sorry
[00:50:41] <flyingparchment> ylon: Logging UFS is fine
[00:50:55] <flyingparchment> ylon: no fsck and i've never seen it lose integrity unless you do something really stupid to corrupt it
[00:51:07] <WickedWicky> flyingparchment: it's not about being hip, I blew up my athlon 2400 XP
[00:51:08] <flyingparchment> (UFS is logging by default since S10)
[00:51:15] <ylon> wow, alright good deal
[00:51:30] <WickedWicky> and unfortunatly you're rendering yourself in need of buying a new mobo and CPU and all
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[00:51:49] <flyingparchment> (once, i accidentally mounted one side of an svm mirror and forgot to resync... cue lots of panics after booting)
[00:52:10] <WickedWicky> yea I had those.. UFS block panics
[00:52:12] <WickedWicky> very cool
[00:52:55] <jbk> flyingparchment: kinda the default
[00:53:24] <jbk> i think the installer (up to u2 at least i think) would explicitly add 'nologging' to any ufs filesystems
[00:54:20] <flyingparchment> hmm, U3 doesn't do that.. don't remember about 3/05
[00:54:54] <jbk> it annoyed me to no end
[00:56:01] <jbk> when i was getting bombarded with server after server build (of course the developers couldn't let me wait a a few days so i could do more at once), and was easy to miss (especially with the inadequate infrastructure that was in place at that job)
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[00:56:36] <WickedWicky> jbk: lemme guess, they wanted them servers "yesterday" or better yet "last week"
[00:56:47] <jbk> of course
[00:57:35] <jbk> and of course the developers were never held accountable if they missed their requirements by a mile (oh we really needed 5tb of storage, not the 1tb we originally said)
[00:58:18] <jbk> 'but you now have to (at 4:55 on a friday -- literally) stay until the additional 4tb is carved up, and if you say no, we will merely keep escalating until we get our way'
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[00:58:46] <jbk> it was that crap happening over and over that finally led me to quit that job
[00:58:47] <DoYouKnow> lol
[00:59:09] <jbk> and i must say, my stress levels is so low now, i can't even compare it
[00:59:27] <DoYouKnow> I'm pretty sure what just happened was the open source ndis wrapper 1.1 corrupted some important files
[00:59:40] <DoYouKnow> but ZFS fixed it
[01:00:06] <jbk> the sad part is, they had lots of opportunity to be #1 in their industry and their crappy, short-sighted mgmt is why they're now a distant (and falling further behind) #3
[01:00:16] <CIA-26> gww: 6601349 libbsm is missing support for various X related audit tokens.
[01:01:06] <flyingparchment> hmm, zfs performance on U3 is definitely better than with the original 3/05 patch
[01:01:09] <flyingparchment> for innodb
[01:01:17] <flyingparchment> wonder if i should upgrade to U4..
[01:01:30] <jbk> they could have had an infrastructure that would have been the envy of probably every fortune 500 company in terms of speed of delivery, effenciency, and cost, but coudln't see past their nose far enough to do it.. their loss :)
[01:02:48] <DoYouKnow> jbk: what company are you speaking of?
[01:02:53] <DoYouKnow> iBM?
[01:02:54] <flyingparchment> or maybe the next KU patch will include the fixes anyway :)
[01:03:24] <DoYouKnow> IBM is #1 I think
[01:03:25] <DoYouKnow> hmm
[01:03:37] <DoYouKnow> well, not for fortune 500
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[01:04:47] <_mattd> hey - does patch work the same way on opensolaris as it does on say.. centos?
[01:04:58] <WickedWicky> no.
[01:05:01] <flyingparchment> _mattd: you probably want gpatch
[01:05:05] <WickedWicky> centos uses GNU patch
[01:05:17] <richlowe> I'd go far further than 'probably'
[01:05:25] <_mattd> thats exactly what i was looking for!
[01:05:30] <flyingparchment> _mattd: you MUST want gpatch
[01:05:31] <ylon> hmm, not seeing any log entries close to the time that the crash could have ocurred
[01:05:34] <flyingparchment> richlowe: ok?
[01:05:37] <ylon> that would be in syslog, right?
[01:05:38] <_mattd> thanks a bunch. can i ask what the "diff" is?
[01:05:38] <WickedWicky> richlowe: they turned make into gmake
[01:05:47] <ylon> how can I fiddle with power savings settings, etc?
[01:05:47] <WickedWicky> or at least make it act like gmake
[01:05:52] <flyingparchment> _mattd: diff is similar enough to do what you want (probably)
[01:05:55] <ylon> just wanting to hunt down what cause the hang
[01:06:02] <WickedWicky> _mattd: try gdiff
[01:06:10] <_mattd> flyingparchment: it was called my patch a unified context patch
[01:06:15] <_mattd> gpatch worked, though
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[01:09:02] <_mattd> thanks guys
[01:09:06] <_mattd> & gals?
[01:09:31] <richlowe> flyingparchment: heh.
[01:09:48] <jbk> DoYouKnow: not ibm
[01:10:16] <nachox> which?
[01:10:36] * nachox just rejected an ibm job offer
[01:10:56] <flyingparchment> other than sun, hp, emc and ibm, who should i look at for storage?
[01:11:10] <nachox> netapp
[01:11:12] <nachox> :P
[01:14:00] <WickedWicky> funny enough, I'd opt the same
[01:14:22] <flyingparchment> do netapp do standard FC RAID stuff?
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[01:14:47] <DoYouKnow> flyingparchment: he was responding to something earlier
[01:17:33] <jbk> flyingparchment: they can, though their support in the past has been problematic -- i would suggest trying to get a unit for eval so you can test
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[01:19:11] <ylon> I've noticed that my mouse will stop working at times for a few seconds while the system is apparently working (for example, when authenticating for network conf), things seems somewhat sluggish.
[01:19:28] <ylon> Is that normal on a 1GB machine with a 2.7GHz proc?
[01:19:29] <jbk> i would hope the issues have been fixed, but if you're gonna shell out that kind of money, probably want to be sure :)
[01:19:44] <jbk> ylon: is firefox loaded?
[01:19:52] <ylon> hmm, it was earlier
[01:20:04] <jbk> i notice it (when running) can cause that
[01:20:06] <ylon> perhaps a thread is still active, lemme check
[01:20:57] <ylon> no, unfortunately its not.
[01:21:12] <ylon> wondering if I've got hardware compat issues
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[01:22:18] *** stevel changes topic to "Latest SXCE 72 | Latest ON 72 | Starter kits:  http://get.opensolaris.org | Clipboard: http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/"
[01:22:23] <stevel> SXCE 72 is out
[01:22:41] * WickedWicky opens a beer on that
[01:22:44] <WickedWicky> and shares, of course
[01:22:45] <ylon> stevel: where can I find a changelog?
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[01:23:20] <stevel> of the whole distro? nowhere
[01:23:27] <stevel> there are ON changelogs, and X changelogs
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[01:24:01] <ylon> I just downloaded 71 this morning; is there an easy update method to step on into 72?
[01:24:48] <nachox> LU if you configured your build71 properly
[01:24:58] <nachox> otherwise a simple upgrade install should work
[01:26:17] <nachox> ylon, http://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/b72/on-changelog-b72.html
[01:26:37] <nachox> that is just ON btw
[01:26:52] <ylon> excellent, thank you much nachox
[01:27:03] <nachox> ksh joy btw
[01:27:16] <ylon> actually that on is good to see
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[01:28:02] <alanc> oh, hmm, guess it's time for me to post the nv_73 X changelogs then
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[01:29:43] <alanc> there, posted 'em: http://opensolaris.org/os/community/x_win/changelogs/changelogs-nv_70/
[01:30:43] <WickedWicky> alanc, stevel, do you know if they made speed performance changes to the i386/amd64 onnv_73?
[01:31:05] <WickedWicky> cause I compiled onnv_73 and it seems like things get executed faster on the CPU
[01:32:20] <WickedWicky> I used the same environmental file and onbld tools as I did for onnv_71 and onnv_72
[01:33:47] <alanc> WickedWicky: I hadn't heard anything, but that proves nothing
[01:34:48] <WickedWicky> well, it might be my mind being playing tricks on me, the experience is a positive one though :)
[01:39:25] <alanc> oh holy fuck, why does bugs.os.o still exist when it sucks that badly?
[01:39:42] <jbk> excellent question
[01:39:44] <dlg> good question
[01:39:47] <flyingparchment> alanc: we've been asking the same question for two years
[01:39:56] <alanc> changing package names in bug reports from SUNWxwinc to xxxWinc is just idiotic
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[01:40:04] <richlowe> alanc: it's awesome.
[01:40:08] <WickedWicky> lol
[01:40:09] <unixware> hi dudes and dudettes too :)
[01:40:18] <richlowe> alanc: ditto on the ' xxxxx W,Sun-Blade-1000'
[01:40:24] <WickedWicky> hello dude or dudette
[01:40:27] <richlowe> which oddly, I've never seen be 'xxxx W, xxxxx - Blade-1000'
[01:40:30] <richlowe> but you'd expect it.
[01:40:35] <tomww> when does the question come to volunteer to replace bugs.os.o
[01:40:39] <flyingparchment> / xxx @ xxx / pci1022, xxx @ xxx
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[01:40:45] <richlowe> tomww: we're trying.
[01:40:48] <alanc> maybe they forgot the /g at the end of that line of the sed script
[01:40:54] <unixware> how many partitions do i need to install solaris ? :)
[01:41:02] <richlowe> tomww: well, people are trying.
[01:41:05] <richlowe> tomww: I think most of us have given up
[01:41:14] <WickedWicky> presuming you really mean partitions and not slices, 1
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[01:41:23] <richlowe> I suspect the fastest way to get it done is pretend it's a marketing effort.
[01:41:48] <reflect> trygvis: you around?
[01:41:50] <WickedWicky> you need one partition, slice it in peaces and put an FS on those slices
[01:42:01] <tomww> richlowe: so change the strategy/arguments why it is to be replaced :-)
[01:42:08] <alanc> I think I knew before it that it was doing this and I'd just repressed it until it jumped back in my face again
[01:42:56] <alanc> I especially love http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6594768, where it xxx's it out in the description, but not the synopsis
[01:43:19] <WickedWicky> dont all guys like XXX packages?
[01:43:20] <alanc> and not in the second part of the description either
[01:43:27] <alanc> how completely random is that?
[01:43:49] <ylon> strange, seems that even the old net config is not conig'ing my nic
[01:43:52] <ylon> very odd
[01:44:01] <ylon> worked back in 65 or so
[01:44:43] <alanc> screw it, we'll just rename all the packages JAVA* so that we can read the bug reports
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[01:45:08] <ylon> how do I list all devices that are on the machine, particularly pci cards and show whether a driver is loaded or not?
[01:45:19] <WickedWicky> do people really make a fuzz about the package naming? o.O
[01:45:24] <richlowe> alanc: it's the match between customer name and text in the bug.
[01:45:27] <richlowe> alanc: pretend you're not at Sun.
[01:45:43] <richlowe> as you'd expect, there's a bug against it already.
[01:45:47] <alanc> but only in parts of the bug?
[01:46:36] <alanc> maybe I'll just set my customer name to be '.*' and watch b.o.o explode
[01:47:09] <richlowe> alanc: I doubt you could make it worse.
[01:47:15] <richlowe> and it's fairly obvious that they've entirely given up even trying to fix it.
[01:47:30] <richlowe> so, if anyone feels like pushing along the migration, go for it.
[01:49:17] <tomww> lot's of upgrades to the twitter.com site these days...
[01:50:17] <wesolows> I feel like drinking whiskey and chasing women instead.
[01:50:43] <wesolows> Sorry to disappoint!
[01:50:58] <WickedWicky> I wonder why people even bother about the naming of a package.. unless you're on wage scale 15 and have "marketing" in your carreer description
[01:51:23] <WickedWicky> wesolows: I'm with you, but I'm at home with Honey Brown (which is a beer)
[01:51:35] <reflect> WickedWicky: when others name packages like MyPackageFour, yes..
[01:52:30] <wesolows> Well, just as long as you remember the rule: expensive whiskey, cheap women.  Some people forget, and it goes badly for them.
[01:52:58] <reflect> mixing upper- and lower-case characters in a name.. well..
[01:53:02] <WickedWicky> not today I am afraid, tomorrow I'll go out ;-)
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[02:01:48] <jafari> anyone here deal heavily on web infrastructure?
[02:02:01] <flyingparchment> jafari: yes, but not with solaris
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[02:47:53] <Drule> You people look like you could do with a good joke.
[02:48:01] <Drule> A priest and a rabbi walk into a bar
[02:48:04] <Drule> except there is no rabbi
[02:48:07] <Drule> and the priest is molesting me
[02:48:12] <Drule> and the priest is my father
[02:48:12] <Drule> and he's not a priest.
[02:48:26] <Drule> See you later.
[02:48:27] *** Drule has left #opensolaris
[02:48:28] *** Drone was kicked by wesolows (wesolows)
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[02:48:31] <wesolows> doh
[02:48:34] <wesolows> fuck you drule
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[02:49:06] <g4lt-mordant> why did you go and kick  perfectly good straightbot? ;P
[02:49:28] *** wesolows sets mode: +b *!Drule@*.telia.com
[02:49:41] <wesolows> tab completion + /kick is a bit over the top
[02:49:48] <g4lt-mordant> that I can get behind ;P
[02:50:10] <g4lt-mordant> wesolows, yeah, i usually go straight for the FQDN personally
[02:52:23] * dlg yawn
[02:52:47] <jbk> hmm interesting blog entry by sch
[02:52:53] * g4lt-mordant throws peanuts into the gaping maw of dlg
[02:54:02] <nachox> wesolows, almost :)
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[02:57:23] <wesolows> I'm slowing down in my old age.
[02:57:27] <jbk> i anxiously await the project proposal to see what they've done
[02:58:04] <wesolows> yeah, what they're doing is pretty promising
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[02:59:40] <jbk> now if certain ISVs would actually package their software :)
[02:59:46] <jbk> *cough*bmc*cough*
[03:00:20] <oninoshiko> any idea on what would prevent me from taking one mirrored zfs boot drive from one machine and put it in another?
[03:00:46] <g4lt-mordant> the fact that zfs boot doesn't exist yet for one?
[03:00:58] <richlowe> except it does.
[03:01:01] <wesolows> possibly a devid problem
[03:01:09] <oninoshiko> g4lt-mordant: funny... seem to work fine on the one server i have it on
[03:01:22] <jbk> i have a dvd in my laptop case that can do it
[03:01:26] <wesolows> certainly open by device path would not work in that case; open by devid should but might be failing - I assume you're seeing panic on boot
[03:01:35] <g4lt-mordant> richlowe, so I can put my entire SLED on my SB100 on zfs now?
[03:01:38] <jbk> of course, i tried to upgrade to b70, and that didn't work..
[03:01:47] <wesolows> if it doesn't even get that far, it's a grub configuration problem most likely; again, different device names/paths could be at work
[03:02:10] <oninoshiko> i get through grub just fine, i seem to get a panic, but i can never read it
[03:02:19] <wesolows> you can boot with -k
[03:02:22] <wesolows> to see it
[03:02:27] <oninoshiko> one moment...
[03:02:28] <wesolows> but I already know exactly what it looks like
[03:02:37] <wesolows> it'll be in vfs_mountroot
[03:03:06] <wesolows> if the two machines are not exactly identical, you're going to have a hard time getting this to work
[03:03:56] <wesolows> you might have more luck importing the pool and setting it up as a zfs boot "again from scratch"
[03:04:03] <oninoshiko> the only differences are in 1) nics, 2) processor speed (both o\core 2, just one slightly faster)
[03:04:16] <wesolows> the mainboard is the same revision?
[03:04:33] <wesolows> also, the nics can be enough to make the difference, if they have bridges on them
[03:04:51] <wesolows> that would be ... 6472670
[03:04:58] <oninoshiko> i beleave the same revision
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[03:05:31] <lloy0076> Is anyone having issues with the second zip of the DVD download for SXSCE 72?
[03:05:32] <wesolows> basically I suggest you either try debugging this with kmdb, attempt the approach I outlined, or ask on zfs-discuss
[03:05:35] <wesolows> this is hard
[03:05:48] <lloy0076> I've downloaded it twice now and it won't unzip sensibly
[03:06:18] <g4lt-mordant> or actually, more importantly, I can do the same to my U60... that would be schweet, because then I could use my JBOD as root/usr instead of sunpci diskimage and music
[03:06:22] <lloy0076> Archive:  solb.zip
[03:06:22] <lloy0076>   End-of-central-directory signature not found.
[03:06:35] <lloy0076> ...and jar xvf solb.zip will eventually throw some form of Java Exception.
[03:07:33] <jbk> sounds like the zip file is incomplete or corrupted
[03:08:00] <oninoshiko> lloy0076: have you checked the checksum>
[03:08:01] <oninoshiko> ?
[03:09:15] <lloy0076> I'll download it again. It seems to have corrupted itself
[03:09:24] <lloy0076> I blame the 'net :P
[03:09:33] <oninoshiko> lloy0076: and you are aware that that is not a "windows style multi-part zip"... it needs to be concatenated with the other files, right?
[03:09:46] <jbk> after you've unzipped it
[03:09:53] <oninoshiko> oh.. its ofter...
[03:10:01] <lloy0076> heh
[03:10:01] <oninoshiko> ok, ignore me
[03:10:16] <lloy0076> I think I started using DVDs from Build 58 or so :P
[03:11:16] * oninoshiko has been using them too, but hasnt needed to get a new disk since 65... and wont until someone manages to get the fixes for iscsitgtd in
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[03:16:46] <oninoshiko> thank you for the insights. i will research them more and try again tomarrow
[03:16:56] * oninoshiko is gonna be lucky to make it home
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[03:17:28] 
[03:17:39] <str0ker> Alguem do Brasil
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[03:35:59] <xirv> hi
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[04:00:14] <CIA-26> ml29623: PSARC/2007/453 MSI-X interrupt limit override, 6584901 nxge driver needs to use 8 MSI for 10GbE on SPARC by default for OOB performance
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[04:21:17] <richlowe> alanc-away: 6601481 is a classic.
[04:22:08] <richlowe> alanc-away: feel free to update 6488418 to reference it.
[04:31:46] <holcomb> i would be more likely to user star if the download site was up
[04:32:35] <movement> richlowe: I'm confused, what's the connection?
[04:32:41] <richlowe> look at the former via b.o.o
[04:32:52] <movement> ohh
[04:32:53] <movement> oh dear.
[04:32:54] <richlowe> though doing so while drinking anything maybe unwise.
[04:32:55] <movement> oh my.
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[04:35:20] <movement> done
[04:35:21] <pauliukas> So how is my favorite operating system doing tonight
[04:36:55] <richlowe> movement: thanks.
[04:36:56] <dlg> can you tell ofw not to probe a certain pci device?
[04:37:02] * dlg wonder if thats wise
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[04:46:47] <Shiv__> Does the bugs db have any means to extract info based on person filing the bug?
[04:47:14] <Shiv__> I had filed a couple of bugs long back. Havent been able to figure out the status.
[04:49:58] <Shiv__> Anyway I can take a dump of the db? I was thinking of writing a wget script. If there is a better interface supported, it would make things lot easier.
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[05:07:31] <Tempt> argh
[05:07:53] <dlg> ola Tempt
[05:08:01] <Tempt> Fightin' with my Ultra-20
[05:08:33] <Tempt> Windows crashed, and now the bastard doesn't want to boot again, and doesn't even want to boot from a CD.
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[05:09:00] <kaiwai> :(
[05:09:07] <DoYouKnow> back
[05:10:00] <kaiwai> Shiv__: I don't think it is possible; hence the reason I like the Bugzilla how one can see all the bugs submitted under ones account
[05:11:59] <richlowe> Shiv__: when you filed them, you should have been mailed the ID
[05:12:07] <richlowe> alternatively, you could ask someone at sun to search.
[05:13:23] <richlowe> kaiwai: comparing b.o.o to something actually intended to work is rather unfair.
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[05:13:56] <kaiwai> richlowe: so its there for shits and giggles? :P
[05:14:06] <richlowe> far more of the former.
[05:14:59] <Shiv__> b.o.o?
[05:15:12] <Shiv__> Ah...got it!
[05:15:13] * kaiwai jumps out naked and shouts BOO!
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[05:18:15] <Shiv__> There was some discussion long back on os.o mailing lists about opening up b.o.o further. Is there any work happening towards this?
[05:18:46] <Tempt> ooh, Ultra-20 is getting awfully close to defenestration
[05:18:51] <richlowe> Shiv__: replacing it.
[05:18:56] <richlowe> with something that isn't a pile of crap.
[05:18:59] <Shiv__> With?
[05:19:06] <Shiv__> Ok.
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[05:20:45] <Shiv__> Are any possible time lines available. The roadmap at os.o doesn't have any info on this.
[05:20:55] <Tempt> Problem identified
[05:21:02] <Tempt> There was a USB key plugged into the Ultra-20
[05:21:08] <Tempt> It tried to boot from that and then gave up
[05:21:09] <Tempt> (!)
[05:21:26] <richlowe> Shiv__: not currently.
[05:22:53] <LeftWing> Tempt: Why are all your x86 problems related to crazy USB booting shenanigans? ;)
[05:23:28] <dlg> cos bioses suck
[05:23:31] <Tempt> LeftWing: No idea, and this is on an Ultra-20, not a whitebox.
[05:24:00] <Tempt> I thought it was Windows shitting itself (and the boot blocks or whatever) and not booting from the CD was an expression of hate from the U20.
[05:24:07] <LeftWing> haha
[05:24:15] <Tempt> but no, just a USB key that happened to be plugged into the side of my LCD
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[05:25:28] <kaiwai> lol
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[05:30:19] <e^ipi_> heyas
[05:30:45] <kaiwai> hi
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[05:32:06] <Shiv__> richlowe: Does making noise on website-discuss or tools-discuss help? Better access to bugs db would be an excellent way to get better participation.
[05:32:46] <e^ipi> threaten to fork ON
[05:32:49] <e^ipi> they love when you do that
[05:33:03] <Shiv__> richlowe: While improvements related to tooling & structures can be endless, bugs db should probably be right on top under resource constraints.
[05:38:22] <richlowe> I doubt it would be.
[05:38:39] <richlowe> tools-discuss was attempting to gather requirements and suggested systems.
[05:38:44] <richlowe> so far, the only suggestion has been bugzilla
[05:44:01] <e^ipi> are they still gathering requirements?
[05:44:06] <kaiwai> richlowe: makes sense to use somethign that is in wide spread use
[05:44:14] <Shiv__> richlowe: Is the information shown on the web interface of b.o.o complete and same as seen by internal engineers. Are there any important info (update history) missed out?
[05:44:24] <richlowe> There's a whole bunch of info missing.
[05:44:36] <richlowe> "everything vaguely useful", would be the eastiest way to characterise it.
[05:44:41] <richlowe> 'easiest'
[05:45:53] <Shiv__> richlowe: I will try wget scripting and if it makes sense try to map it to bugzilla. If you can tell me the nature of info missing, I can decide to go ahead or not.
[05:48:00] <Shiv__> richlowe: One thing I see is that people give links to internal lan paths about symptom files, core dumps, etc. This is obviously not accessible via any os.o
[05:48:50] <richlowe> I don't see how trying to shoehorn that data into bugzilla is worthwhile, right now.
[05:50:20] <Shiv__> richlowe: Downloading it was anyway necessary since I need to provide it to some students who might not have continuous net access.
[05:51:17] <Shiv__> richlowe: Mapping to bugzilla crossed my mind just now. It could serve as a proof of concept if people want to check feasibility.
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[05:52:22] <Shiv__> richlowe: Ofcourse if the priorities internally are comletely different and if b.o.o is not on the radar it is a different matter.
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[06:05:35] <DoYouKnow> there still is some corruption on improper shutdowns with ZFS
[06:05:55] <DoYouKnow> if you're using 1 drive
[06:06:01] <DoYouKnow> I found out
[06:06:39] <DoYouKnow> but what I did was boot into safe mode and let it fix the bad blocks
[06:06:54] <richlowe> that sounds far more like ufs crapping out on you
[06:07:40] <DoYouKnow> oh
[06:08:06] <DoYouKnow> is the kernel loaded from a UFS volume?
[06:08:15] <DoYouKnow> or ZFS?
[06:10:06] <jamesd> ufs
[06:10:14] <jamesd> zfs has to be created...
[06:10:17] <DoYouKnow> ok
[06:10:32] <jamesd> and  zfs as root   is only supported on x86, and its a  hack  currently
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[06:13:55] <DoYouKnow> jamesd: I used my entire drive with the default install settings, and I can't install another drive on this computer at the moment. Is there a way that I can use ZFS?
[06:14:41] <bda> Don't use the entire disk for the system install.
[06:14:58] * bda uses 20-30G for the system and gives the second part to ZFS.
[06:14:59] <richlowe> and don't let the DE installer force you to.
[06:15:28] <bda> Does the system actually have to boot from UFS for ZFS on root? Or just for the install?
[06:15:43] <bda> Would hacking up miniroot to do it be insane? (Or is that the way?)
[06:16:16] <jamesd>  zfs has to be created...    if you didn't create the ZFS pool... you dont have one...
[06:17:32] <DoYouKnow> can I resize my /export/home partition?
[06:18:18] <jamesd> mv your files somewhere else.....  edit /etc/vfstab  remove the filesystem... umount /export/home  and  convert it to be zfs
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[06:20:25] <spackest> I tried #dtrace, but I am just wondering if anyone has got dtrace to work with the perl that comes with coolstack
[06:20:39] <jamesd> work how?
[06:20:50] <DoYouKnow> ok jamesd
[06:20:53] <DoYouKnow> I'll look into that
[06:20:54] <richlowe> someone or other had diffs to add probes to perl, at one point.
[06:20:54] <spackest> like profiling perl method entrance and exit
[06:20:56] <richlowe> alanbur, maybe?
[06:21:03] <spackest> yeah, I saw those
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[06:58:15] <spackest> so, dumb question but once a week or two, my x2100 just reboots on its own, but my x2200 never does, any ideas?
[06:58:54] <e^ipi> that's odd... my sparc has decided that booting is no fun anymore
[07:00:14] <CIA-26> pawelw: 6495271 SATA module should inform HBA the drive's queue depth, 6589306 need a tunable to specify # of multiple concurrent I/Os for NCQ, 6594578 sata module emits unnecessary error messages while ATAPI inquiry command fails
[07:01:28] <spackest> my box just rebooted in the middle of a zone install, pretty lame
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[07:37:58] <Fish> hello
[07:38:47] <e^ipi> oleh
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[07:48:11] <e^ipi> odd... boot -v brings me up to the CPU info line, then the machine hangs
[07:48:13] <e^ipi> forever
[07:50:14] <jbk> try book -kv
[07:50:17] <jbk> err boot
[07:50:20] <jbk> what type of box?
[07:51:07] <e^ipi> blade1k
[07:51:45] <jbk> tty or keyboard/monitor?
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[07:53:35] <e^ipi> keyboard
[07:53:49] <e^ipi> what's the -k flag do, anyways?
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[07:57:31] <richlowe> clearly not when it comes to typing.
[07:57:52] <e^ipi> heh
[07:57:57] <richlowe> e^ipi: -k loads kmdb.
[07:58:02] <e^ipi> ahh
[07:58:03] <g4lt-experienced> yuck foo
[08:02:30] <trs81> hey all - console-login isn't starting. running the script manually doesn't seem to work
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[08:08:52] <e^ipi> yeah, no... that won't work
[08:08:56] <e^ipi> break isn't working
[08:09:21] <richlowe> if you boot with -kdv, does it ever drop you to the debugger?
[08:09:26] <richlowe> (-d drops it into kmdb as soon as possible)
[08:09:31] <e^ipi> haven't tried -d
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[08:14:03] <e^ipi> okay, and what am i supposed to do here?
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[08:14:51] <trs81> hah, it's my own fault for disabling fc-fabric
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[08:16:26] <e^ipi> the last time this machine wouldn't boot ( when i first received it from fedex ) I pulled out all the parts and put it back together again
[08:16:31] <e^ipi> i'm thinking I might do that again
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[08:17:19] <jbk> did it drop you into the debugger?
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[08:17:44] <Tempt> mm, coffee time.
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[08:23:48] <e^ipi> jbk: yeah, it dropped in just fine
[08:23:55] <jbk> try $c
[08:28:18] <jbk> i think that gives you the stack trace
[08:28:55] <richlowe> try and get it to just before it wedges, figure out where you are. :)
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[08:32:11] <jdavis_> postgresql has an option to be safe against partial page writes ( a database page is bigger than a disk sector). Is that necessary at all under ZFS? I would think it isn't.
[08:33:28] <jbk> it depends on how it issues the i/o
[08:33:45] <jdavis_> if it's written in a single 8192 byte I/O?
[08:34:21] <jbk> if it follows it with an fsync (or is opened with the correct flags), then chances are yes
[08:34:33] <jbk> zfs will guarantee the entire i/o either completes or doesn't
[08:34:46] <jdavis_> jbk: oh, very nice. That's what I hoped.
[08:34:53] <jdavis_> what flags are necessary
[08:34:54] <jdavis_> ?
[08:35:36] <jbk> however, if you do write; write; i believe each write would occur atomically i.e. 1st one could complete, but second one could fail
[08:35:46] <jbk> i think O_DSYNC on open, or something like that
[08:36:24] <jdavis_> well, I don't want it to commit to disk synchronously, postgres has a separate write-ahead log that it does fsync
[08:36:53] <jdavis_> But the data pages can be written at the OS discretion, so long as they aren't partially written.
[08:37:02] <jbk> well let's put it this way, each i/o is guaranteed to succeed or not (no partial writes)
[08:37:08] <jdavis_> perfect!
[08:37:56] <jbk> however, I don't think there's a way yet to guarantee that a whole set of writes completes or not unless you explicitly flush things (i.e. fsync) -- that becomes your checkpoint
[08:38:14] <jdavis_> jbk: yeah.
[08:38:33] <jbk> it's easier to show visually than explain (to me at least)
[08:38:47] <jbk> zfs itself has several layers
[08:38:57] <jdavis_> The thing this helps with is that, in other filesystems, you could have maybe only 512 bytes written out of the 8192, and so postgres needs to store a bunch more stuff in the log after a checkpoint.
[08:39:15] <jbk> the zpl (zfs posix layer) is what implements the filesystem operations ontop of the dmu (data management unit)
[08:39:23] <jbk> the dmu itself is transactional
[08:39:34] <jbk> very much like a database -- commit or rollback essentially
[08:39:46] <jbk> however, there isn't presently a way to directly get at that
[08:39:53] <jdavis_> ok, I've done some reading already so I'm following what you're saying.
[08:40:08] <jbk> so what constitutes a transaction is how the typical file operations map to a transaction
[08:40:17] <jbk> and that's essentially fixed
[08:40:32] <jdavis_> Oh, I see
[08:40:52] <jbk> however, there has been indications that they intend in the future to expose the dmu functionality in some form (I don't think there's been any discussions how it would look)
[08:40:53] <e^ipi> erm, in kmdb... how do I continue
[08:40:56] <e^ipi> or step it
[08:41:00] <trede> evening
[08:41:10] <e^ipi> or something... a stack trace isnt' working out very well
[08:41:16] <jbk> hmm
[08:41:16] <jdavis_> so a write() is internally a single ZFS transaction, but you can't have a single ZFS transaction around multiple write()s?
[08:41:45] <jbk> jdavis_: that is my understanding
[08:42:17] <trede> i see your talkinb about DBs, PG seems to be the favored db for solaris.  whats the ups and downs with choosing mysql for a HA solution on solaris?
[08:42:26] <trede> talking.
[08:42:34] <jdavis_> jbk: cool, thanks for the help. Right now I'm just putting b69 on a test box, waiting for the install to finish.
[08:42:39] <jbk> trede: i think it works fine -- there's even an optimized package you can use
[08:42:44] <jbk> ahh
[08:42:57] <jbk> i'm installing b62 (all i have handy at the moment) on a box w/ zfs root :)
[08:43:08] <trede> jbk: oki. whats the name of it ?.
[08:43:32] <jbk> lemme see if i can find a link...
[08:43:59] <trs81> http://cooltools.sunsource.net/coolstack/index.html ?
[08:44:04] <jdavis_> trede: I'm a postgresql user/advocate myself. I don't know a lot about MySQL other than that you should probably use InnoDB.
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[08:44:47] <trede> jbk: yes im using innodb atm since i need acid.
[08:44:47] <jbk> http://cooltools.sunsource.net/coolstack/
[08:45:04] <jbk> in that is a mysql package
[08:45:14] <jbk> 64bit, using innodb
[08:45:16] <jdavis_> trede: that's actually a fairly similar storage engine to Postgres, by the way.
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[08:45:33] <trede> jbk: i was looking at the jdbc thread on PG forum today, and all the fighting devs have about implementing statement caching or not really ticks me off.
[08:45:39] <trede> jbk: ok. thanks for the help.
[08:45:59] <jbk> jdavis_: what i see as very interesting is if a database were to use the dmu directly (via whatever interfaces are exposed)
[08:46:10] <jbk> a database could be an object set (like a filesystem is a dmu object set)
[08:46:22] <jbk> and tables and indexes would be objects within that object set
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[08:46:41] <jdavis_> jbk: I see that as very interesting too.
[08:46:59] <jdavis_> trede: statement caching, you mean query caching at the JDBC layer?
[08:47:02] <jbk> and so it could do start_transaction(); modify(obja); modify(objb); commit()
[08:47:26] <jbk> and let zfs handle the rest
[08:47:39] <trede> jdavis: no, cashing of prep statement objects.
[08:48:10] <jbk> brb
[08:48:29] <trede> jdavis: some dev at PG thinks that the caching of prep statements belongs outside the jdbc layer..
[08:48:30] <jdavis_> trede: I thought they already did that.
[08:48:54] <trede> jdavis: mysql got it.. PG dont. they are fighting about it in the PG jdbc forums.
[08:49:01] <jdavis_> trede: DBI can do server-side prepared statements...
[08:49:34] <jdavis_> trede: I wonder why not JDBC? JDBC it's even explicit preparing, right?
[08:49:39] <trede> jdavis: yes but you still want to cache the prep statements in the jdbc layer for serverside preps.
[08:49:54] <trede> jdavis: and that is not done in PG jdbc either..
[08:50:38] <trede> jdavis: cause they got some people who think its bad for ISVs and performance in general due to extra layer blabla.  like its hard to set a flag to use it or not ?.
[08:51:56] <jdavis_> trede: Oh, I see what you mean, you're just talking about caching the object that holds the statement (or a handle to the server side prepared statement)?
[08:52:09] <trede> jdavis: yes.
[08:52:18] <jdavis_> trede: Ok, I see.
[08:53:03] <jdavis_> trede: sometimes postgresql people are very results-oriented. If a test shows it's faster on a plausible application, it's got a good chance.
[08:53:27] <trede> jdavis: but they seem so focused on ISVs etc. like its all there is.
[08:54:05] <jdavis_> trede: i'm looking for the discussion right now...
[08:54:08] <trede> jdavis: and it kinda get out of hands if they think that having statement caching is bad for people not using it... if disabled per config.. whats the problem ?.
[08:54:32] <trede> jdavis: its in the september jdbc forum. like 30 posts.
[08:54:53] <jdavis_> trede: yeah, long thread, wow.
[08:55:17] <jdavis_> trede: are you one of the people involved in that thread?
[08:55:29] <trede> jdavis : some of em advocate that why bather at all ?? there do exist some "slow" opensource layer for independent statement caching..
[08:55:57] <e^ipi> aha! it boots.
[08:55:58] <trede> oh .sorry . im out of topic guys. i be quiet now.
[08:55:59] <e^ipi> bonus
[08:56:45] <e^ipi> this is bad, innit? : http://pastebin.ca/686878
[08:57:40] <trede> jdavis: no im not in the thread.. i know better then to get into that . its not a productive healthy environment it seems
[08:58:27] <jdavis_> trede: I just mean that he is advocating for the caching wrapper to be more available/official, which seems like what you want.
[08:59:44] <boyd> e^ipi: I'd say so.
[09:00:17] <e^ipi> care to elaborate?
[09:03:12] <e^ipi> is it actually faulting on a dead motherboard, or is it possible i've got a loose board of some sort ( loose CPU or ram stick or UPA card ) ?
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[09:49:59] <e^ipi> huzzah!
[09:52:12] <e^ipi> the ffb2 gives me a widescreen resolution too
[09:52:18] <e^ipi> ffb2+ doesn't
[09:52:26] <e^ipi> counter-intuitive, but there have you
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[09:56:19] <jbk> haha dammit
[09:56:30] <jbk> i just finished downloading b72
[09:56:33] <jbk> and like an idiot
[09:56:41] <jbk> i had downloaded sparc instead of x86
[09:58:01] <Sup3rkiddo> jbk, happened to me :D
[09:59:02] * g4lt-experienced tells e^ipi "told you so"
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[10:01:12] <e^ipi> g4lt-experienced: told me what?
[10:01:27] <e^ipi> that a technically worse card would support my monitor better?
[10:01:54] <g4lt-experienced> that sun cards would solve your apple monitor issue
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[10:05:44] <e^ipi> it's an acer monitor, and the previous card that was giving me problems was a sun creator3d series 3 ( ffb2+ )
[10:06:06] <e^ipi> the one which seems at first glance ( on OS install ) to work is a creator3d series 2 ( ffb2 )
[10:06:30] <g4lt-experienced> ahh, I thought you were the one with the apple widescreen monitor that wanted to use a wannabe-xvr100
[10:07:06] <e^ipi> nope, acer widescreen & i was thinking of getting an xvr100 or a generic radeon 7k
[10:07:18] <e^ipi> because I know those cards can drive the monitor
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[10:14:31] <sickness> morning all
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[10:18:16] <e^ipi> hey
[10:18:44] <WickedWicky> Hey all!
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[10:39:09] <theRealballchalk> hey
[10:39:35] <theRealballchalk> who has an iphone?
[10:40:07] <e^ipi> people with more money than sense?
[10:40:09] <theRealballchalk> it's a nice piece of hardware
[10:40:38] <theRealballchalk> yea orr........people who had it offered to them :)
[10:41:23] <theRealballchalk> what's going on e^ipi long time
[10:41:33] <theRealballchalk> still using b55
[10:41:37] <theRealballchalk> hehe
[10:41:42] <_judas_> hey guys
[10:41:43] <e^ipi> erm... what?
[10:43:24] <theRealballchalk> i said long time no see
[10:43:35] <e^ipi> i saw you a couple days ago
[10:43:40] <_judas_> lol
[10:43:55] <theRealballchalk> i've been dormant even though i've been here forever too
[10:43:56] <theRealballchalk> yea sitll as in always
[10:43:57] <theRealballchalk> but lately i've been keeping up with the iphone unlock hack
[10:44:14] <theRealballchalk> over at irc.osx86.org #iphone
[10:44:59] <theRealballchalk> whoa it's 5 in the morning andi got class at 9
[10:45:00] <theRealballchalk> gota go
[10:45:04] <theRealballchalk> g'nite
[10:45:09] <WickedWicky> screw iphone
[10:45:16] <e^ipi> WickedWicky: i concur
[10:45:17] * WickedWicky is gonna buy a Samsung U700 today
[10:45:46] <_judas_> all mac products are pretentious
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[10:45:58] <e^ipi> I even don't mind apple products, but the iphone is just a stupid idea all around
[10:45:59] <WickedWicky> yeah.. or ppl leave them in a bus
[10:46:00] <WickedWicky> *cof*
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[10:46:08] <tsoome> well if you dont like them, dont buy
[10:46:12] <e^ipi> done
[10:46:15] <WickedWicky> I loved my ipod though!
[10:46:17] <tsoome> noone is forcing you
[10:46:42] <WickedWicky> especialy after changing the firmware and so
[10:46:58] <WickedWicky> whoever has him how prolly raises an eyebrow or two
[10:48:07] <WickedWicky> I have a Creative Zen vision:m now
[10:48:10] <WickedWicky> very cool device as well
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[10:49:28] <_judas_> i have a zen v plus
[10:49:36] <WickedWicky> also a very nice one :D
[10:49:43] <_judas_> its ok
[10:49:52] <_judas_> i just wish i knew that the battery couldn;t be replaced
[10:50:11] <_judas_> now im stuck w/ it until the battery stops hodling charge
[10:50:13] <_judas_> :|
[10:50:35] <sickness> ld.so.1: perl: fatal: relocation error: file /usr/perl5/site_perl/5.8.4/i86pc-solaris-64int/auto/GD/GD.so: symbol Perl_Gthr_key_ptr: referenced symbol not found <- what does this mean? I can't perl Makefile.PL anymore :(((
[10:51:30] <seanmcg> sickness: what compiler you using to build GD ?
[10:52:26] <sickness> gcc
[10:53:16] <seanmcg> you probably have to use Sun cc - perl wants the same compiler used :(
[10:53:33] <sickness> bullshit :(
[10:53:47] <_judas_> lets masturbate
[10:54:00] <sickness> I just built Digest-SHA1-2.11, URI-1.35 and GD fine with gcc!
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[10:54:30] <sickness> why in the hell I can't build GD-Graph and Textutil? that's simply unfair :(
[10:54:44] <WickedWicky> life is pretty unfair
[10:54:49] <WickedWicky> but that's a diff. discussion ;-)
[10:55:06] <sickness> that's not life, that's a shitty os it should work it's anyway a FICTIONAL thing
[10:55:10] <sickness> not a real thing
[10:55:38] <WickedWicky> some ppl make a life compiling stuff ;-)
[10:56:58] <sickness> ...
[10:57:37] <WickedWicky> just try with the Sun Pro compiler
[10:57:41] <WickedWicky> what damage can it do
[10:58:09] <WickedWicky> you'll spend extra coffee beans on a coffee during the compile, that will be about it
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[11:01:35] <sickness> I don't really want to "kill" the system installing sun studio...
[11:02:44] <WickedWicky> how kill?
[11:02:54] <WickedWicky> opensolaris ships the Sun Compiler
[11:03:19] <g4lt-experienced> right, given that it was compiled with SUNWspro, and more importantly, it's part of SXDE
[11:03:32] <_judas_> let's masturbate together, just as friends
[11:03:35] <g4lt-experienced> that will certainly "kill" the system
[11:03:49] <g4lt-experienced> _judas_, wanker
[11:03:58] <_judas_> im gay!
[11:04:43] <WickedWicky> what has masturbating to do with being gay?
[11:05:01] <_judas_> he he
[11:05:03] <libkeise1> what does any of it have to do with opensolaris?
[11:05:09] <_judas_> :)
[11:05:12] <WickedWicky> yeah, that more importantly
[11:05:24] <WickedWicky> so, sickness: you wont kill anything by installing Sun Studio
[11:05:26] <g4lt-experienced> libkeise1, the fact that none of the ops have kickbanneed him yet?
[11:05:30] <_judas_> i want very much put my anus in a women's penis
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[11:05:38] <sickness> hey, ok, I should install sun cc and I'm ok with that... BUT, how is it possible that Digest-SHA1-2.11 and URI-1.35 compiled *fine* with gcc and I'm also using them without problems?!?
[11:05:43] <sickness> I want to understand this
[11:05:59] <JWheeler> I have a couple of very frustrating issues with a couple of solaris host that I've just upgraded to sx71. Firstly, and most importantly - I needed a dvd-rom for me server, since I downloaded the dvd.iso. So I loaned my server my PC's sata dvd-rom, installed solaris, but now if I try to take that dvd drive back, the server won't boot. I get about 3 seconds past grub, then it reboots
[11:06:20] <JWheeler> I can boot-up in failsafe mode, but I don't really know how that helps me
[11:06:25] <g4lt-experienced> sickness, since you completely fail to provide any useful information, I really doubt you DO want to understand
[11:07:20] <WickedWicky> JWheeler: so it does boot the kernel for three seconds?
[11:07:47] <JWheeler> WickedWicky, that's right. I tried -v, but I don't get any extra information. -s won't help either
[11:08:08] <sickness> g4lt-experienced: which information should I provide? sxce71, full standard install, perl -MCPAN -e 'install Digest::SHA1', change cc with gcc in the makefile, remove cc specific optimizations, and it compiles fine, URI::Escape too and GD too, why not GDTextUtil? :/
[11:08:30] <g4lt-experienced> the eroor might help....
[11:08:40] <WickedWicky> I do see some CD-ROM activity within the first 10 seconds of booting the kernel... long shot: put the DVD-drive back in, boot, touch /reconfigure, shut down the system and take the DVD-ROM out, then boot up
[11:08:47] <sickness> ld.so.1: perl: fatal: relocation error: file /usr/perl5/site_perl/5.8.4/i86pc-solaris-64int/auto/GD/GD.so: symbol Perl_Gthr_key_ptr: referenced symbol not found
[11:09:00] <sickness> g4lt-experienced: sorry, I pasted that before you joined
[11:09:11] <JWheeler> WickedWicky, I've tried that already :/
[11:09:18] <WickedWicky> oh :(
[11:09:51] <JWheeler> I actually took the dvd-rom out before the first boot, realised that was probably the problem and put it back in again. Then it would boot, but that's about it
[11:10:03] <JWheeler> as soon as I take it out again, I'm back to a reboot loop
[11:10:10] <JWheeler> maybe running devfsadm?
[11:10:53] <sickness> maybe sata "scales" devices back?
[11:11:02] <WickedWicky> you could give devfsadm -C
[11:11:04] <WickedWicky> for cleanup
[11:11:29] <sickness> have you tried to see if changing the /boot/solaris/bootenv.rc file, at the setprop bootpath /pci@0,0/pci-ide@7,1/ide@0/cmdk@0,0:b helps?
[11:13:06] <JWheeler> ok, devfsadm run
[11:13:34] <sickness> try to put there the device of your sata dvd-rom when it's attached, NOT the disk, then rebuild your bootarchive and shutdown, then remove the sata dvd-rom, and boot
[11:13:39] <JWheeler> phew, that sounds complex... lemme open that file to see if another jumps out at me
[11:14:25] <sickness> it's not complex, most of that device path doesn't need to be changed anyway, only a bit ;P
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[11:14:35] <sickness> well, a device...
[11:14:40] <seanmcg> sickness: what version of GD/GDTextUtil/libgd you using.  Wanna try this myself since I use an older libgd+GD+GDTextUtil just fine on snv_72.
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[11:15:51] <sickness> GD-2.35, GDGraph-1.4308, GDGraph3d-0.56, GDTextUtil-0.86
[11:16:05] <seanmcg> and libgd ?-)
[11:16:11] <libkeise1> sickness: you wouldn't happen to have a second perl install on the machine (e.g. blastwave)?
[11:16:29] <JWheeler> the bootpath is correct
[11:16:43] <JWheeler> or at least it is with the sata drive connected
[11:17:01] <JWheeler> are you suggesting that I check again under fail-safe mode?
[11:17:50] <sickness> libkeise1: nope, otherwide I had already installed it, if I have to install 2 or 3 concurrent versions of perl and his packages, I'll install openbsd...
[11:18:23] <sickness> JWheeler: yeah, check without the sata dvd-rom connected the device path of your disk
[11:19:34] <libkeise1> ok. good good. the reason i ask is that relocation error suggests the shared object was linked against the wrong perl libraries
[11:19:41] <JWheeler> ah ha, good idea
[11:19:59] <sickness> libkeise1: anyway, I think that I'll try to install sun cc, if it take less than 8gb of free space... (thing that I doubt of...)
[11:20:38] <sickness> libkeise1: oh, I don't know why that relocation error should happen, but I'm sure to have just 1 perl the default system one, or maybe the system already ships with 2 versions?
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[11:21:45] <seanmcg> sickness: have a peek in /usr/perl5, - 5.6.1 and 5.8.1 :}
[11:24:24] <sickness> yeah, I've two, 5.8.4 and 5.6.1 :/
[11:24:39] <sickness> anyway, this is a default full install, so I think that's normal
[11:24:53] <sickness> (sxce71)
[11:25:45] <seanmcg> sickness: what version of libgd you using  ?  I'm getting autoconf errors with gd-2.0.35 :(
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[11:26:26] <sickness> lemme see...
[11:26:53] <seanmcg> oh, wait its bundled.. never noticed that before
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[11:27:07] <sickness> yeah
[11:27:37] <sickness> libgd.so.2.0.0
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[11:29:03] <sickness> anyway, I'll try something else, tnx :)
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[11:42:35] <seanmcg> sickness: got GD-2.35 and GDTextUtil-0.86 installed. had to use the Sun C and a change to Makefile.PL and Makefile of GD.  The demo for GDTextUtil work fine.
[11:49:12] <JWheeler> thanks sickness, I'm a lot closer now. Indeed the device path had changed slightly.
[11:49:48] <JWheeler> I'm now having issuse with the slice itself. The server boots, but tells me there in an issue with the the slice (looks like read errors), and to run a fsck command
[11:50:01] <Pietro_S> how can I discover what process is using my disk the most?
[11:50:26] <JWheeler> I run that command, letter for letter, but it tells me the device doesn't exist. If I run 'format' indeed, the disk isn't there... despite the fact we booted and are running the OS off it...
[11:50:27] <seanmcg> Pietro_S: /usr/demo/dtrace/whoio.d :)
[11:52:40] <Pietro_S> thanks
[11:52:43] <JWheeler> I can't run devfsadm either, because the fs is read only in maintenance mode
[11:53:12] <JWheeler> and mount -o remount,rw / fails, because apparently /dev/dsk/c0d0s3 doesn't exist.
[11:53:18] <JWheeler> catch 22 anyone?!
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[11:58:46] <Pietro_S> cmdk0                sched          0        35680768
[11:59:00] <Pietro_S> that's sheduler of cpu or disk?
[11:59:39] <Pietro_S> it's output from whoio.d (the other prorams have too little bytes)
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[12:01:51] <trygvis> JWheeler: I think you can specify the device to remount as root
[12:02:30] <JWheeler> I was root, thought I'm wondering if the controller number will also have been wrong
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[12:08:27] <sickness> seanmcg: maybe I'll try sun cc too, tnx
[12:08:55] <sickness> JWheeler: maybe the device doesn't exist in maintenance mode?
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[12:10:51] <JWheeler> under failsafe it's ok, and I was able to fsck it
[12:11:39] <JWheeler> but once in normal mode, format just isn't seeing it
[12:11:43] <JWheeler> argh
[12:11:58] <JWheeler> I can run through the whole install again, but I don't know that the result will be any different
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[12:15:48] <JWheeler> 72 is out already, goodness, 71 was just a couple of days ago!
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[12:16:31] <trygvis> o.O
[12:16:38] <trygvis> I just upgraded to 71 too
[12:16:51] <JWheeler> Given that there is a bit of sata stuff in there, I'm wondering if I'm going to have to upgrade, again
[12:16:53] <trygvis> learned how to jumpstart things too, it was surprisingly easy
[12:17:03] <trygvis> oh, hm.. /me reads up
[12:17:41] <JWheeler> it's easy if you're happy to have your jumpstart server being your dhcp server, if not, it gets complex
[12:18:12] <trygvis> hm, eh? was that a requirement?
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[12:18:37] <trygvis> both my adsl box and the jumpstart server was online at the same time
[12:18:52] <trygvis> I though it only used rarp and tftp to get the image?
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[12:22:42] <JWheeler> In my case, I had real issues on the pxe side
[12:23:12] <JWheeler> Mind you, I fundementally disagreed with the notion of needing a mac address to get working, so that might have been the key different
[12:23:15] <trygvis> this was sparc to sparc, with pxe I think you have to use "full" dhcp
[12:23:22] <_judsa_> HE HE HE HE
[12:23:31] <JWheeler> meanwhile, in a server room far away, I'm starting this install again
[12:23:34] <trygvis> ah, I explicitly gave it an ethernet address
[12:23:44] <JWheeler> ah yes, x86 is more complex
[12:24:09] <trygvis> I've been wondering if I should switch to a "proper" dhcpd and dns but I can't seem to keep my boxes stable enough
[12:24:29] <trygvis> I think I have to buy a very boring box that can act as a server .. one that I have no interrest in touching or upgrading
[12:24:50] <trygvis> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/caselog/2007/422/
[12:25:00] <trygvis> will it make my drives hum? :)
[12:25:45] <Tempt> hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[12:26:24] <trygvis> ohoh, File Events Notification API
[12:27:37] <trygvis> also multicast dns is nice
[12:29:03] <JWheeler> how does multicast dns work?
[12:32:12] <trygvis> it broadcast special DNS records that describe services
[12:32:33] <trygvis> I think apple made it, at it is what they use to discover printers and stuff
[12:32:46] <trygvis> but I think they call it zeroconf
[12:32:53] <trygvis> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDNS
[12:34:38] <trygvis> it's nice to have on servers as well so that managment software can discover servers
[12:34:43] <trygvis> I think opennms support it
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[12:35:37] <kaiwai> is it possible to download B71 instead of B72?
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[12:37:44] <kaiwai> the reason why is because B72 is broken
[12:38:29] <_judsa_> why did you have to break it, kaiwai
[12:39:02] <kaiwai> _judsa_: the build is broken
[12:39:14] <kaiwai> it has the cd/dvd drive bug
[12:39:24] <_judsa_> :(
[12:40:15] <kaiwai> http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6600169
[12:41:00] <_judsa_> <kaiwai> i broke B72.. but sshhhhh don't tell anyone!
[12:41:09] <_judsa_> what is the meaning of this?
[12:41:43] <kaiwai> _judsa_: meaning of what?
[12:41:50] <_judsa_> :(
[12:42:01] <_judsa_> i am downloading minix
[12:42:24] <_judsa_> in protest against bloated operating systems
[12:43:34] <kaiwai> lol - same here :) then again, Solaris includes developer packages as well
[12:44:15] <_judsa_> ah
[12:44:27] <kaiwai> mind you, QNX RTP was fun to stuff around with
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[12:45:04] <kaiwai> 250MB download
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[12:47:30] <_judsa_> which version was that?
[12:47:40] <_judsa_> i enjoyed 6.2.1
[12:47:59] <_judsa_> even though it ran in vesa mode
[12:48:20] <kaiwai> yeap, it was fun and teh snappy
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[13:06:40] <kaiwai> yeah! got it working :)
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[13:31:32] <Shiv__> Anyone here gone through "Solaris Systems Programming" ?
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[13:33:43] <Shiv__> I came across a mention of this book in a mail to docs-discuss and on further searching for references, came across http://invisible-island.net/critique/APUE-SSP.html
[13:33:54] <Shiv__> This suggests plagiarism. I wanted to get some input buying a copy or lest I recommend it to anybody else.
[13:34:19] <Shiv__> ....input (before) buying....
[13:35:14] <cmihai> Get the 2nd edition of Stevens
[13:35:15] <cmihai> APUE
[13:35:26] <cmihai> Updated for Sol 9
[13:35:27] <cmihai> good book
[13:35:31] <cmihai> and both solaris internals books
[13:35:40] <_judsa_> let's masturbate
[13:38:28] <cmihai> Shiv__, and the book is fine, if you don't mind plagiarism. I mean, at least it uses a good source ;-). Besides, you know what they say: if you use one source, it's plagiarism. If you use more, it's called research :-)
[13:39:20] <Shiv__> APUE and Solaris Internals, I have gone through. Excellent books they are. I saw SSP mentioned as an essential read. I interact with quite a few students (even though am not an academician)
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[13:39:44] <Shiv__> I do not want to refer people to such sources if it is true.
[13:39:57] <Shiv__> I personally haven't had a look at SSP
[13:41:59] <Shiv__> So, does it use multiple sources ;)
[13:42:21] <cmihai> Yeah ;-)
[13:42:52] <Shiv__> Which are the others? (Dont tell me Solaris Internals)
[13:44:30] <cmihai> Check biblio :-)
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[13:46:03] <Shiv__> You want me to buy it :(
[13:46:14] <ShanghaiScott> what's a URL to info about what's new in nevada builds? like what's new in b72?
[13:46:18] <cmihai> Anyway, if you feel strongly about this, just recommend people the second edition of APUE. Stephen Rago updated it in 2005 to cover Solaris 9.
[13:46:44] <Shiv__> Ok, thanks for the inputs.
[13:46:58] <cmihai> ShanghaiScott, opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/
[13:47:02] <cmihai> just google onnv flag days next time :P
[13:48:51] <cmihai> Shiv__, http://www.rite-group.com/rich/ssp/preface.html the prefece suggest Stevens might have actually had input on the book itself.
[13:49:08] <cmihai> "Special thanks to W. Richard Stevens for his inspiration and encouragement when this book was just a twinkle in the author's eyes."
[13:49:37] <Doc> oh please lets not go into the whole Rich Teer/Stevens thing again
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[13:50:16] <cmihai> benr had a nice review too: http://www.cuddletech.com/articles/ssp_review/
[13:52:03] <Pietro_S> anyone up for trying one script around SFE repository?
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[13:54:41] <Pietro_S> it only search for spec files which provide newer version of package than installed in system, you don't have to fear about deleting your ~/ ;-)
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[14:03:28] <kaiwai_> hmm
[14:03:38] <kaiwai_> the problem I have with SFE is that dependencies aren't resolved automatically
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[14:05:49] <Pietro_S> kaiwai_: I have on in script in ruby (including build dependencies)
[14:06:19] <kaiwai_> neat; I tried to build SFE but it kept failing everytime I tried
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[14:07:06] <Pietro_S> kaiwai_: which package?
[14:07:53] <kaiwai_> the whole lot :( I can't build them bit-by-bit, I have to build the whole lot :(
[14:08:43] <Pietro_S> kaiwai_: don't tell me that you tried pkgtool --download build *.spec :-)
[14:09:10] <kaiwai_> well, if I specify a specific .spec file it complains about dependencies
[14:09:26] <kaiwai_> so I had to do the pkgtool -download build *.spec
[14:10:49] <Pietro_S> kaiwai_: that's for nearly 1 week of compile time (unless you have it on some superb iron)
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[14:11:24] <kaiwai_> Pietro_S: yeah, which is why I wanted the codec pack, the SFEBuild is broken
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[14:13:51] <Pietro_S> kaiwai_: tell me what do you want to install, and I will get you dependency list ;-)
[14:14:17] <kaiwai_> Pietro_S: better still, you compile and send them to me :)
[14:15:12] <kaiwai_> I found the codec pack btw; someone mirrored the old version and it works ok
[14:16:20] <kaiwai_> going to give wine a compile using gcc, and give some windows apps a go
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[14:18:14] <kaiwai_> bah, I'm going to compile it from scratch
[14:18:40] <kaiwai_> without pkgtool
[14:18:45] <kaiwai_> so it'll actually work
[14:19:17] <Pietro_S> kaiwai_: good luck, but I fea that you will need some patches
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[14:19:31] <kaiwai_> well, most are sun cc related I think
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[14:22:39] <Pietro_S> kaiwai_: nope, SFEwine is compiled by gcc
[14:22:51] <kaiwai_> interesting, never had any problems before :)
[14:23:11] <Pietro_S> 3 patches ...
[14:23:46] <kaiwai_> yeah, I'll do it manually
[14:24:11] <Pietro_S> kaiwai_: did you get my /msg?
[14:24:24] <kaiwai_> the dependency one?
[14:24:33] <Pietro_S> yep
[14:24:36] <kaiwai_> yeap, got it
[14:25:07] <kaiwai_> I've manually compiled alot of it already; the freetype included with solaris is broken
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[14:26:18] <kaiwai_> oh, and the software installation profile doesn't get read
[14:26:37] <Pietro_S> ?
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[14:26:46] <kaiwai_> in user_attr
[14:27:55] <Pietro_S> kaiwai_: it works here, I think that pkgtool won't let you use it under root
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[14:29:22] <Pietro_S> kaiwai_: it's "Software Installation
[14:29:42] <kaiwai_> but it doesn't work for me, I have it in my profile and it doesn't give me permissions
[14:29:43] <Pietro_S> the capital S and I are important I think
[14:31:49] <Pietro_S> kaiwai_: did you done ". /opt/jdscbe/bin/env.sh" before running pkgtool?
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[14:47:09] <kaiwai_> yeap, did that
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[14:50:14] <aramdune> heh, hello cmihai
[14:50:22] <cmihai> Hey
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[14:58:57] <kaiwai_> hmm, you little beauty
[14:59:19] <kaiwai_> compiling nicely
[14:59:55] <_judsa_> im running minix3 in qemu now :)
[14:59:59] <_judsa_> it's cute
[15:00:08] <kaiwai_> lol
[15:00:22] <_judsa_> im d/l an irc client
[15:00:23] <kaiwai_> hopefully xen will be merged soon with solaris
[15:01:31] <_judsa_> w/ solaris as guest or host?
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[15:02:07] <Tempt> used to be able to run Minix as an OS that lived in a process on Solaris
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[15:02:26] <dlg> virtualising before it was cool
[15:02:32] <cmihai> Minix is too much work in terms of manual memory management and with no paging...
[15:02:39] <Tempt> Yep.
[15:02:55] <Tempt> Having an OS image running in a process was nifty, with no overheads for hardware emulation.
[15:03:16] <cmihai> There were some Linuxes that did that in Windows too...
[15:03:43] <cmihai> Like DragonLinux or PHAT Linux that ran from DOS... or the COLinux stuff that ran as a process under NT
[15:03:46] <cmihai> That was pretty weird stuff.
[15:04:00] <cmihai> And again, I guess that's what MS does with Interix now...
[15:04:21] <cmihai> Got it running under Windows so I could ssh to the machine... not very stable though.
[15:04:35] <Tempt> Linux from DOS was just using LOADLIN
[15:04:41] <Tempt> just a bootloader replacement.
[15:04:58] <cmihai> Yeah, but CoLinux was a process.
[15:05:15] <Tempt> Mm, is it still maintained?
[15:05:21] <_judsa_> the only reason virtualisation is so big now is because it equates to $$$ for big corps
[15:05:43] <kaiwai_> _judsa_: not quite, it allows people to migrate and have access to their needed apps
[15:05:52] <Tempt> ha
[15:05:57] <cmihai> http://www.colinux.org/
[15:06:01] <Tempt> No, it makes money for virtualisation companies
[15:06:03] <cmihai> Looks like it.
[15:06:08] <_judsa_> people were able to migrate before without virtualisation
[15:06:13] <Tempt> Exactly
[15:06:23] <kaiwai_> how so - without virtualisation
[15:06:33] <Tempt> People used to live without their stupid Windows apps on their desktop machines
[15:06:35] <dlg> i think virtualisation is a conspiracy
[15:06:57] <Tempt> and corporates ran multiple applications on one server
[15:06:59] <dlg> big companies are putting the peices in place to provide the infrastructure for DRM
[15:07:06] <Tempt> instead of buying a stack of Windows licenses to run on one machine
[15:07:36] <kaiwai_> Tempt; It isn't just applications
[15:07:45] <_judsa_> kaiwai_: they just migrated, ported their software or used new ones.. or used tools like unix2dos dos2unix
[15:08:12] <kaiwai_> _judsa_: if there was an app which supported minidisc, I'd be using it now
[15:08:23] <_judsa_> kaiwai_: im talking about corps hosting their databases, apps and services on one machine instead of 5
[15:08:32] <_judsa_> to them that is big $$$avings
[15:09:00] <h3sp4wn_> Is the Solaris Express Community Editon b57 dvd too old to be worth installing (presuming I would upgrade it to whatever is current)
[15:09:23] <h3sp4wn_> (i.e will the time to upgrade it be longer than the time to download the new dvd)
[15:09:31] <kaiwai_> h3sp4wn_: there is a new one out soon based on B70
[15:09:34] <Tempt> kaiwai_: We're not talking about desktop users having tiny hardware driver issues here.
[15:09:49] <kaiwai_> Tempt: oh, for large corporations; virtualisation makes no-sense
[15:09:53] <Tempt> kaiwai_: I can assure you that the enterprise does not worry about minidisc players
[15:09:58] <Tempt> kaiwai_: Nor ipods.
[15:10:27] <Tempt> kaiwai_: The only Enterprise win for virtualisation is saving Power, HVAC and rackspace.
[15:10:42] <kaiwai_> mind you,  most enterprise worth their weight will already have Solaris x86 versions anyway
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[15:11:07] <Tempt> You'll find that Solaris x86 still isn't a big player in the Enterprise
[15:11:21] <Tempt> It's cheaper to keep buying SPARC.
[15:12:24] <kaiwai_> Tempt: depends on what one needs it for; it'll take a while before Solaris x86 takes hold, just like it took Windows and Linux a while
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[15:13:19] <Tempt> Didn't take Windows long to get a hold at all, actually.
[15:13:40] <_judsa_> tits
[15:13:47] <Tempt> The applications and services quickly rolled from desktops and workstations into production
[15:13:59] <Tempt> and like every overnight productionization of a desktop-grade app,  it was shite.
[15:14:49] <Shiv__> I vaguely remember that the latest *Sun Device Detection Tool* was to support stand alone execution (without net access to download HCL)
[15:15:16] <Shiv__> Can anyone confirm if this is true. The SDDT page at bigadmin does not make any mention of this.
[15:15:28] <kaiwai_> ooh, Microsoft Office is running nicely :)
[15:16:33] <kaiwai_> the unholy marriage of Solaris + wine + Office 2003
[15:16:59] <cmihai> Yeah, that's a nice way to waste your time.
[15:17:06] <Shiv__> The tool download (sddtool_12.jnlp) is not the entire application + HCLdata. Seems to be some sort of starter program that needs net access.
[15:17:07] <Tempt> Horrible.
[15:17:11] <cmihai> Wine will never run anything properly. Just try something else then Word or more functions and such.
[15:17:23] <Tempt> give 'em StarOffice and they'll want MS Office.
[15:17:28] <kaiwai_> cmihai: how is it a waste of time?
[15:17:29] <cmihai> You want windows: just use rdesktop or something to connect to a workstation.
[15:17:43] <cmihai> Since it's little more then a toy.
[15:17:51] <cmihai> A waste of time. Not something usable in production.
[15:17:53] <cmihai> Ever.
[15:17:58] <cmihai> Hell, even for legal reasons.
[15:18:28] <Tempt> I'd tend to use SSGD to publish applicatiosn
[15:18:29] <Tempt> and use vmware
[15:18:44] <cmihai> For _most_ tasks StarOffice works. And the things StarOffice can't handle.. wine can't emulate.
[15:18:46] <Tempt> and run multiple OS instances on the hardware so when one crashes you don't lose the processing power.
[15:19:07] <Tempt> For *most* tasks you don't need to leave the happy confines of screen
[15:19:26] <cmihai> Heh, yeah :-)
[15:19:39] <cmihai> I even went as far as to compile screen and zsh on Windows ;P
[15:19:51] <Tempt> That's what people forget. We actually used to get things done before GUIs.
[15:20:08] <cmihai> Or IDEs
[15:20:46] <Tempt> :-)
[15:22:16] <Tempt> Or that people used to communicate only before HTTP
[15:22:24] <Tempt> Before GUI mail and news readers
[15:22:45] <Tempt> s/only/online/
[15:22:49] <Tempt> blah.
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[15:27:16] <Shiv__> Got the SDDT to run stand alone. Instead of from the SDDT homepage, it is to be used from the DVD.
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[15:46:49] <boro> hi all
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[15:47:41] <boro> anyone know, what's the proper way to request certificate from sun to use for elfsign ? i've generate elfsign request, sent it to the sun as a mail body and got no answer
[15:49:37] <madhatter> Hi, is there a way to scan for my hardware somehow? I am planning to buy SATA disks, but I have no idea if my onboard SATA controller works with sxce.
[15:51:28] <cmihai> madhatter, http://unixsadm.blogspot.com/2007/08/getting-detailed-system-information-on.html  - getting system info
[15:52:00] <madhatter> cmihai: Yay! Thank you
[15:52:19] <cmihai> madhatter, you should check the Solaris HCL too
[15:52:30] <cmihai> http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/
[15:53:01] <cmihai> There's a Java tool that lists if your hardware is supported it. Set it to SXDE if you plan on running SXCE / SXDE or newer stuff, or Solaris if you aim for Solaris 10 support.
[15:54:23] <Doc> best way to get detailed system info is to run Explorer and then look at what it's collected
[15:54:33] <cmihai> :-)
[15:54:37] <Doc> we spent a lot of time getting all the important things into it
[15:55:00] <madhatter> cmihai: Thing is, that I have no idea what's the name of that controller
[15:55:29] <cmihai> Is it external (eg: PCI, PCI-X, whatever) or onboard?
[15:55:36] <cmihai> If it's onboard, look for chipset support.
[15:55:38] <cmihai> NVIDIA and Intel stuff is mostly supported.
[15:55:41] <madhatter> cmihai: I have that system check cd here.
[15:55:42] <cmihai> Via.. not so much
[15:56:09] <madhatter> onboard, Asus mainboard
[15:56:22] <cmihai> And once you get a disk, you can just format < /dev/null and see if it's listed..
[15:56:29] <cmihai> ASUS doesn't say much.
[15:56:31] <cmihai> Give me a chipset mate.
[15:56:33] <cmihai> Or a MB model.
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[15:57:32] <madhatter> cmihai: Nothing at hand. I will have to digg a bit here
[15:58:32] <madhatter> cmihai: prtconf does not tell me anything that looks like sata
[16:00:21] <_judsa_> i suddenly got the urge to listen to petshop boys
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[16:00:22] <_judsa_> :/
[16:00:29] <cmihai> /usr/bin/kstat will show if a module is loaded for that hardware. Also, just run the Java app thing, it will say what is and isn't supported.
[16:01:04] <cmihai> madhatter, http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/hcts/device_detect.html - this one
[16:01:24] <cmihai> It should list it under Storage
[16:01:49] <madhatter> Ah, found the manual: Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe.
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[16:02:35] <cmihai> Sounds like an AMD mb.. probably nforce too
[16:02:37] <cmihai> Should be supported.
[16:02:55] 
[16:03:11] <cmihai> nForce2 Ultra 400 chipset.
[16:03:18] <cmihai> Well, look those up in the HCL.
[16:03:43] <madhatter> cmihai: Thanks. I will do so
[16:03:55] <_judsa_> where can i get solaris drivers for my USB dildo
[16:04:03] <Doc> what model?
[16:04:08] <Doc> the 7" or the 12"?
[16:04:31] <_judsa_> 14"
[16:04:34] <_judsa_> version 6.9
[16:04:51] <cmihai> What does /usr/sbin/cfgadm -al list it as?
[16:05:36] <cmihai> usb5/1 USB 2.0 ButtFucker(TM) unconfigured OK?
[16:06:11] <Tempt> You need to upgrade to the 18" dual channel
[16:06:12] <_judsa_> hahaha
[16:07:04] <_judsa_> :)
[16:07:42] <Shiv__> madhatter: Using the Sun Device Detection Tool should help. It verifies against the HCL.
[16:08:42] <Shiv__> madhatter: http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/hcts/device_detect.html
[16:10:23] <JWheeler> you know how zpool status -v is now meant to show you file names. Mine still doesn't, and I'd really like to clear out whatever it is that it's upset about
[16:10:37] <JWheeler> what was the manual way of tracking it down? something to do with inodes was it?
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[16:35:31] <DoYouKnow> hi
[16:35:57] <zer0z0ne> ji
[16:36:00] <zer0z0ne> hi*
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[16:45:14] <madhatter> The Device Detection Tool does not list it, it seems. I only see the ide controller under
[16:45:18] <madhatter> 'storage'
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[16:45:37] <madhatter> Maybe I will have to activate the controller in the bios first...
[16:46:43] <_judsa_> maybe there is a conflict with your USB fleshlight
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[17:00:10] <madhatter> Hm... does not seem to have a special menu option for (de)activating onboard sata controller...
[17:04:36] <DoYouKnow> sorry, I didn't catch the whole convo. Are you trying to boot into solaris when there is a conflict?
[17:05:50] <DoYouKnow> well, when I try to boot into OpenSolaris on a different platform than I installed the driver for, it will error out without loading the driver
[17:06:05] <DoYouKnow> for example if I boot into x64 solaris with an x86 driver
[17:06:06] <DoYouKnow> or vice versa
[17:06:16] <DoYouKnow> x64/i386 I mean
[17:06:32] <DoYouKnow> well, sun uses weird terms :)
[17:13:45] <cmihai> No, he's just trying to see if his SATA is supported...
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[17:14:55] <cmihai> When in doubt, just start some LiveCD like Knoppix and see if "dmesg" lists your controller as supported.. if that doesn't work either, your controller is probably disabled (or broken or non-existant... it's all in your head!)
[17:18:09] <bda> Phantom HBAs From Beyond the Stars.
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[17:28:42] <_judsa_> i wish guys could just look past the penis between my legs and accept me for who i am
[17:30:40] <madhatter> cmihai: Too bad, seems there is no support for that sata controller :( I now found it in the sdd tool after setting a jumper on board.
[17:31:15] <madhatter> cmihai: I will have to find another controller that works with SXCE
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[17:33:00] <madhatter> Neat. There are only two serial ata controllers in the hcl for sxde? One PCI-X and the other onboard??
[17:34:29] <cmihai> Nah, there's more
[17:34:47] <madhatter> cmihai: THose RAID controllers are most sata, too?
[17:34:49] <cmihai> Anyway, Intel stuff (and the kind in laptops) and the nforce stuff generally works. There's another set of PCI-X stuff.
[17:35:04] <cmihai> Those RAID controllers are mostly fakeraid
[17:35:13] <cmihai> they'll only work in pass-through with anything but windows.
[17:35:21] <cmihai> Anyway, I'm off to buy coffee, catch you later.
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[17:37:08] <madhatter> cmihai: I thought mine were nforce chipset?
[17:37:18] <madhatter> cmihai: ENjoy the coffee
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[17:42:19] <madhatter> Okay, maybe can give me hint here?
[17:42:43] <madhatter> I used the Solaris Device Detection Tool and got this SATA controller listed:
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[17:43:07] <madhatter> SIL 3112 Serial ATA Controller
[17:43:22] <madhatter> No support for 32bit neither for 64bit
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[17:44:05] <madhatter> But this sounds very much the same chipset: http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/data/components/details/801.html
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[18:25:23] <_judsa_> i want to get internet in my room so i can view pornography
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[18:36:05] <boro> oh, hard life ;)
[18:36:21] <_judsa_> yah
[18:36:25] <_judsa_> hi boro :)
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[18:36:37] <boro> sun ignores my requests for certificate generation for elfsign
[18:36:59] <_judsa_> are you black?
[18:37:00] <boro> _judsa_: i am afraid i can't you help with internet connections
[18:37:13] <boro> depends on the amount of light in the room ;)
[18:37:41] <_judsa_> ah
[18:37:46] <_judsa_> you are a chameleon?
[18:37:58] <_judsa_> what is the sign of the elf
[18:38:26] <boro> interesting question
[18:38:40] <boro> what is the sign of the elf in the elfsign command ?
[18:38:47] <_judsa_> hm yah
[18:41:43] <elektronkind> it's for signing ELF binaries
[18:42:34] <madhatter> Can it be that the tool does not get the correct info on that controller because there is no disk attached to it yet?
[18:43:13] <madhatter> I checked the output from the controller at startup and it identifies itself as Sil 3112a with bios 4.2.27
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[19:02:08] <holcomb> good job subversion.  you properly linked libssl_extra but not libssl.
[19:02:34] <_judsa_> lets look at pornography
[19:05:47] <holcomb> can't - batter is almost dead.  don't want to waste it decoding frames
[19:05:50] <holcomb> battery
[19:06:16] <_judsa_> he he
[19:06:38] <_judsa_> that's ok
[19:06:52] <_judsa_> you can stlil close your eyes and imagine you are viewing pornographic images
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[19:17:11] <jbk> hmm... this experiment didn't work :(
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[19:20:20] <jbk> it can't find the ramdisk for some reason :(
[19:23:09] <_judsa_> what experiment
[19:26:03] <jbk> just to see, i took a b62 installed system w/ zfs root (that used a patched netinstall dvd image for the installation), created an empty zfs filesystem, then took a b72 iso, mounted it, pkgadd -R /b72 the packages (using .order file), added zpool.cache to the ramdisk filelist, did bootadm update-archive -R /b72; added an entry to grub, and tried to boot off of it
[19:26:45] <e^ipi> and it was full of failure?
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[19:28:37] <jbk> it claims it can't mount /ramdisk:a
[19:29:14] <jbk> it feels like it's just some small bit missing somewhere that i can't figure out
[19:29:52] <jbk> i also made sure / is in /etc/vfstab correctly
[19:30:14] <DoYouKnow> what is a patched netinstall dvd image?
[19:30:21] <DoYouKnow> I mean, I don't believe it
[19:30:27] <DoYouKnow> haven't heard of anything like that for solaris
[19:30:42] <jbk> grub loads the kernel just fine
[19:30:45] <DoYouKnow> where can I download it?
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[19:31:17] <jbk> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs/boot/
[19:32:32] <jbk> but dunno if it still works with later builds (came out w/ b62)
[19:34:04] <PerterB> blimey, the US scored
[19:35:48] <nachox> rugby?
[19:35:56] <jbk> i might try cloning and installing over, but i'd like to know what the missing piece is
[19:36:12] <PerterB> nachox: yeah
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[19:36:40] <nachox> PerterB, i'm just happy Argentina beat France yesterday :)
[19:36:59] <PerterB> me too (I'm irish, we're in the same group)
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[19:37:43] <PerterB> very good effort though
[19:37:45] <nachox> so we get to play against the us and ireland?
[19:37:58] <PerterB> nah, the us are playing england right now
[19:38:47] <PerterB> the others in "our" group are namibia and georgia
[19:38:58] <nachox> 28-10
[19:40:28] <PerterB> yeah, considering england are meant to be the world champions that's a good score for the americans
[19:41:18] <nachox> england? i thought new zeland and australia had better teams
[19:41:49] <PerterB> they do, but england won the last world cup, which makes them champions for the next week or so ;)
[19:44:48] <nachox> it's over
[19:45:40] <jbk> hmm.. this is interesting/frustrating
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[19:46:08] <jbk> oh.. heh.. had the wrong offset..
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[19:56:21] <Pietro_S> hmm, is someone able to pkgbuild SFFEinkspace on 70b and newer? Looks like there is problem with autotools versions :(
[19:57:03] <DoYouKnow> hmmm it says my USB hard drive sd2 is online, but I can't find sd2 in the /dev directory
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[19:57:48] <PerterB> it'll appear as /dev/dsk/cNtNdNsN
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[20:06:38] <DoYouKnow> peterB: the first N is 2?
[20:07:10] <DoYouKnow> I have a USB hard drive that's NTFS and I'm trying to get it mounted so I can see if it has any important data
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[20:07:41] <_judsa_> you should know
[20:07:46] <PerterB> the N's will depend on what hardware is in your system
[20:07:50] <_judsa_> everywhere i go
[20:08:00] <PerterB> but I didn't think solaris could mount ntfs
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[20:08:27] <DoYouKnow> PeterB: how do I figure out what the code is for the device?
[20:08:31] <DoYouKnow> is there a command I can type?
[20:08:59] <trygvis> dmesg should show some output from the usb driver
[20:09:24] <DoYouKnow> Sep  8 12:40:48 unknown genunix: [ID 408114 kern.info] /pci@0,0/pci103c,3091@13,2/storage@2/disk@0,0 (sd2) online
[20:09:31] <DoYouKnow> then it says something about a pseudo-device
[20:09:32] <PerterB> rmformat -l
[20:11:39] <DoYouKnow> thanks
[20:12:27] <boro> pls. how to obtain certificate for elfsign from sun ?
[20:13:22] <_judsa_> you emailed them right?
[20:13:37] <boro> yes
[20:13:40] <boro> twite
[20:13:43] <boro> twice
[20:13:54] <_judsa_> maybe they blacklisted you'
[20:14:03] <_judsa_> for sending twice
[20:14:07] <_judsa_> :p
[20:14:14] <boro> no
[20:14:36] <_judsa_> when did you email them
[20:14:50] <boro> first time week ago, and today
[20:15:00] <boro> but i've just sent as a contents only the request
[20:15:17] <boro> no polite words, i thought a  machine generates replies
[20:16:12] <elektronkind>  you have a module for the KCF?
[20:16:31] <boro> me ?
[20:16:36] <elektronkind> yeah
[20:16:42] <boro> no, what's that
[20:16:51] <boro> elfsign mentions only about sending request
[20:16:52] <_judsa_> kfc
[20:17:33] <elektronkind> have you read the elfsign man page? It seems like it's only used when providing a module for the crytographic framework
[20:18:11] <boro> mhm, i thought i can sign and verify any elf binary on my discretion
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[20:18:51] <elektronkind> it may be a good idea to ask a question about it on the security-discuss mailing list
[20:19:00] <boro> oh shit
[20:19:29] <boro> yes, in header it really states about signing binaries for cryptography
[20:19:52] <boro> i've read incorrecly, by SCF instead of for SCF
[20:19:55] <boro> ;(
[20:20:11] <boro> so thanks...i am not about to implement any modules :-D
[20:21:54] <elektronkind> ;)
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[20:22:41] <boro> now, after so many requests, i am probably on a CIA suspect software terrorism list
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[20:28:37] <DoYouKnow> well, I borrowed one of my dad's HDDs for ZFS. hopefully he will be cool with that :)
[20:28:52] <DoYouKnow> it's in a junk hard disk bin so he shouldn't mind
[20:30:02] <DoYouKnow> why is boro on a software terrorism list?
[20:30:53] <_judsa_> he threatened jihad on sun employees
[20:31:03] <DoYouKnow> lol
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[20:39:35] <flyingparchment> hmm, panic in ZFS on S10U3
[20:42:53] <cmihai> Upgrade to 08/07 :-)
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[21:10:13] <coffman> wtf
[21:10:18] <coffman> sxce 72
[21:10:21] <coffman> gar
[21:10:31] <coffman> i did a lu today on 71
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[21:10:34] <coffman> grrr
[21:11:17] <coffman> first they stale the releases and then they release every week
[21:11:19] <coffman> grr
[21:11:57] <flyingparchment> upgrade from hg :)
[21:12:41] <coffman> fucking lu takes fucking forever
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[21:14:09] * coffman raises his fist
[21:15:35] <trochej> coffman: But doesn't stop your work
[21:15:51] <coffman> trochej: haha
[21:16:03] <coffman> trochej: its a laptop, the disk is fucking slow
[21:16:11] <coffman> so everything stales
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[21:20:41] <DoYouKnow> ouch, I did a properties on a ZFS mountpoint in nautilus and nautilus crashed on me
[21:21:18] <DoYouKnow> maybe nautilus doesn't fully support zfs yet?
[21:22:26] <DoYouKnow> 819a5d8 2007/09/08 14:13:34.0906 (USER): selection changed in window 86314e8
[21:22:26] <DoYouKnow> 	file:///export/drive2
[21:22:26] <DoYouKnow> 819a5d8 2007/09/08 14:13:35.9035 (USER): debug log dumped due to signal 11
[21:22:39] <DoYouKnow> it could also be because of this ndis wrapper-like tool I have running
[21:24:33] <_judsa_> nautilus is always crashing
[21:24:46] <_judsa_> either chewing up 100% of CPU or crashing
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[21:32:37] <Triskelios> how do I get the current CPU speed on a SpeedStep-regulated CPU?
[21:33:22] <_judsa_> ticks per second
[21:36:08] <Triskelios> ...?
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[21:49:57] <ofu> might kstat cpu_info help?
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[21:52:52] <nrubsig> What does "breakdown of travel sponsorship required" mean ?
[21:53:56] <oninoshiko> nrubsig: you need to do more paperwork
[21:54:04] <nrubsig> oninoshiko: ?!
[21:54:57] * oninoshiko you asked
[21:55:07] <nrubsig> grumpf
[21:55:14] <WickedWicky> does it mean you have to show proof of funding (as in, show you have enough money to take of yourself during your trip)?
[21:55:19] <nrubsig> oninoshiko: I want to figure out what the term means....
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[21:56:00] <oninoshiko> you need to make up like a spreadsheet.. showing how its getting paid for, where money is coming from, where it's going to
[21:56:30] <nrubsig> WickedWicky: no, I don't have the money.
[21:56:33] <nrubsig> I dear.
[21:56:36] <nrubsig> er
[21:56:37] <nrubsig> s/IOh/
[21:56:39] <nrubsig> erm
[21:56:45] <nrubsig> s/I /Oh /
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[22:01:39] <_judsa_> he he he
[22:01:48] <e^ipi> nrubsig: it means you need to figgure out approximately how much it'll cost
[22:02:15] <nrubsig> groan
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[22:02:27] <e^ipi> just look in to the price of a flight from your home city to san jose and add 3*189
[22:02:37] <e^ipi> then itemize it
[22:07:14] <nrubsig> groan
[22:07:30] <nrubsig> e^ipi: are you travelling to the conference, too ?
[22:08:31] * nrubsig needs to find a search engine for flighty
[22:08:33] <nrubsig> er
[22:08:35] <nrubsig> flights
[22:11:37] * nrubsig learns that expedia.de is good for holiday trips to weired locations but useless to book a trip to san jose
[22:11:44] <nrubsig> grrrr
[22:11:49] <jbk> ok this is annoying... if i clone the working /, then install ontop of it, it works, but a clean, empty fs does not work..
[22:11:52] <e^ipi> nrubsig: yeah, i am
[22:12:43] * jbk will be there as well
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[22:13:50] <Triskelios> ofu: thanks, current_clock_Hz looks like the right thing
[22:14:17] <nrubsig> e^ipi: from which country are you ?
[22:14:30] <e^ipi> canada
[22:15:14] <nrubsig> anyone from germany ?
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[22:18:56] <nrubsig> coffman: ping!
[22:19:35] <coffman> nrubsig: yup
[22:19:55] <coffman> nrubsig: sup?
[22:20:25] <nrubsig> mom
[22:22:08] <jbk> nrubsig: http://www.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/OpenSolaris_Summit ,_ looks like joerg scholling and martin bochning are both planning to attend
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[22:27:57] <e^ipi> it'll be a drunken good time
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[22:28:59] <nrubsig> jbk: I added myself...
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[22:31:26] 
[22:31:36] <coffman> nrubsig: jaja
[22:32:35] <coffman> nrubsig: der nick ist nicht meiner... also den hat jemand anderes registriert und benutzt ihn nicht mehr...
[22:32:42] <nrubsig> grumpf
[22:32:44] <nrubsig> mom
[22:32:55] <coffman> nrubsig: jabber/icq/msn/aol... ?
[22:33:09] <nrubsig> coffman: join the travel hell...
[22:33:50] <nrubsig> coffman: /join #travelhell
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[22:39:19] <flyingparchment> hmm: Sep  8 17:30:25 zedler pcplusmp: [ID 658230 kern.info] NOTICE: apic: local nmi: 0 1 1 1
[22:39:23] <flyingparchment> what does that mean?
[22:42:51] <DoYouKnow> this branded zones stuff is pretty cool. I will anticipate a MacOS X zone
[22:43:01] <DoYouKnow> is there a plan for how to do that?
[22:43:23] <DoYouKnow> reverse engineer the cocoa api?
[22:44:10] <coffman> lol
[22:44:31] <PerterB> I'm sure it's right at the top of the priority list
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[22:46:35] <cmihai> DoYouKnow, don't bother anticipaiting anything. First off, it has very little to do with the cocoa API... Branded Zones works like lxrun, it translates Linux system calls, so it can run Linux binaries. Basically, it's using the Solaris kernel to pretend to be a Linux kernel. A concept _very_ similar to LKP in UnixWare/OpenServer or compat_linux in BSDs.
[22:46:51] <cmihai> Now trying to emulate the XNU kernel... would be a challange.
[22:48:08] <cmihai> MacOS X is basically the XNU kernel (Mach microkernel + BSD POSIX APIs) + FreeBSD based userland (Darwin) + Aqua interface.
[22:48:50] <cmihai> Good luck trying to make Solaris emulate that :-).
[22:50:05] <PerterB> it would probably be cheaper and less effort to buy a Mac each for all the potential users of such zones (about 7 people, by my estimate)
[22:51:11] <PerterB> having said that, a resurrection of Openstep has potential, but I can't see it ever happening
[22:52:42] <DoYouKnow> hmm
[22:52:45] <delewis> it would be nice if Sun could open their OpenStep-related property, but I doubt that could ever happen.
[22:52:56] <delewis> Sun did have their own Objective-C compiler that was integrated in Workshop.
[22:53:20] <delewis> as for the runtime, that was OpenStep, not that libobjc junk. :-)
[22:53:24] <coffman> it would be nice if sun could throw away X and do something that works
[22:53:27] <PerterB> yeah, but it's not java enough for today's Sun
[22:53:29] <g4lt-mordant> great, objectionable C, just what we need instead of java
[22:53:56] <delewis> Objective-C is a *much* better language than Java or C++.
[22:54:07] <delewis> it's how a real C programmer would've done object orientation, IMO.
[22:54:15] <cmihai> Right now I'll believe anything is better than Java...
[22:54:22] <g4lt-mordant> delewis, you still have yet to make a case for it being GOOD ;P
[22:54:35] <coffman> oxygene did a gnustep port to solaris
[22:54:45] <cmihai> <- forced to brush of on his Jaba for some project... bah.
[22:55:02] <PerterB> g4lt-mordant: it has a good object model and excellent class libraries, it's just the syntax of the language itself which is rather horrid
[22:55:07] <nrubsig> delewis: but java has better exception  handling, that's why ksh93 may sooner or later get a try { ... } catch () { ... } finally { ... } equivalent.
[22:55:13] <delewis> g4lt-mordant: the fact that it's about as light as C is (very, very small runtime by comparison to C++) should tell you something.
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[22:56:01] <coffman> he did it also for a german company the ports os X software to solaris, mainly special stuff for other companies
[22:56:03] <delewis> nrubsig: god, no. I despise that exception handling model. Any competent ADA programmer can tell you the dangers of exception handling.
[22:56:18] <PerterB> Two words: Ariane 5 ;)
[22:56:29] <delewis> PerterB: :-)
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[22:57:31] <g4lt-mordant> PerterB, what does "g4lt's job security" have to do with objectionable C?
[22:57:49] <PerterB> I have no idea
[22:58:13] <delewis> that's just proof that job security and language superiority are Hausdorff a.k.a 'separable'
[22:58:27] <PerterB> very much so
[22:58:45] <g4lt-mordant> actually, I'd say that they were inversely proportional ;P
[22:58:49] <PerterB> hell, I did some php the other day (I'm not proud to admit)
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[22:59:06] <delewis> PerterB: nasty little language isn't it?
[22:59:09] <PerterB> very
[22:59:34] <g4lt-mordant> the less superior the language, the greater your job scurity if it involves fixing the fuckups
[22:59:42] * cmihai hands PerterB ASP.NET :-)
[22:59:51] <PerterB> one of our clients chose to using it as a command line scripting language......
[23:00:05] <delewis> PerterB: have you gone postal, yet?
[23:00:06] * PerterB crosses cmihai off his christmas card list
[23:00:27] <cmihai> How about JRuby on Rails :P
[23:00:30] <nrubsig> which air port is the best (or closest) to the meeting locatoin ?
[23:00:37] <PerterB> delewis: nah, I'm a contractor - I smile sweetly, take the money and praise the size of the client's...... tools
[23:00:44] <PerterB> exactly like a prostitute
[23:00:45] <e^ipi> nrubsig: san jose
[23:00:47] * g4lt-mordant pusts cmihai on An Entirely Different List
[23:00:50] <cmihai> PerterB, I've seen init scripts written in PHP. Honest to God, INIT SCRIPTS!
[23:01:07] <delewis> PerterB: yeah, been there done that. Go home and have a hard drink or two, afterwards.
[23:01:14] <nrubsig> PerterB: ariana 5 failed because error handling in hardware was turned off
[23:01:14] <PerterB> and a shower!
[23:01:41] <PerterB> nrubsig: I know, but it broadly fits into the category of uncaught exceptions
[23:01:43] <nrubsig> PerterB: I read the report.
[23:02:14] <delewis> it's your responsibility to know which exceptions to 'catch'. If you don't you're fucked, and that's the nature of exception handling.
[23:02:19] <nrubsig> PerterB: it fits into over-optimisation, break-down of QA, code review and management, among other things.
[23:02:41] <nrubsig> delewis: not if the exception handling was poked around via C code.
[23:02:56] <delewis> and I guess what I said earlier might be somewhat irrelevant to Java's catch().. try(), etc. given the ADA exception handling model has some light diferences.
[23:03:09] <nrubsig> delewis: the problem was that someone wanted extra speed and tacked C code alongside the Ada code.
[23:03:32] <delewis> 'if you fail to catch the exception in block b, it exits that block, goes up to block a, and tries to catch it there. Once all nested blocks are exhausted, the program exits abruptly.'
[23:03:39] <nrubsig> more important: NONE _REVIEWED_ the code.
[23:03:46] <delewis> Java doesn't have that model does it?
[23:03:53] * delewis isn't a Java programmer
[23:03:59] <delewis> I've done a good bit of ADA and PL/SQL, though.
[23:04:00] <nrubsig> no
[23:04:01] <trygvis> it does
[23:04:03] <PerterB> java has exactly that model
[23:04:09] <nrubsig> PerterB: no.
[23:04:18] <nrubsig> PerterB: you can do a catch-all.
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[23:04:24] <nrubsig> PerterB: which is recommended.
[23:04:39] <PerterB> if you have a catch-alll, it is caught, by definition
[23:04:55] <delewis> you can do a catch-all in ADA, too, but it's rare that your exceptions will all follow the same path.
[23:05:10] <trygvis> http://rafb.net/p/VwaOKl21.html
[23:05:18] <delewis> so the point of a catch-all is moot in most situations.
[23:05:57] <PerterB> the common result in application servers is that uncaught exceptions in the apps get caught by the catch-all in the appserver code which is much the same as an abrupt exit
[23:05:59] <nachox> should i just remove the qlogic driver if i dont need it?
[23:06:03] <nrubsig> What is if "San Jose" is not available ?
[23:06:08] <delewis> and for those exceptions that require different paths, you need to declare those first, then make sure the catch-all is last if none of the other exceptions match.
[23:06:19] <delewis> doing exceptions properly is really tricky business, and you can get bit.
[23:06:20] <DoYouKnow> will IBM be opening up the AIX source code in line with Sun's move to open up Solaris source?
[23:06:34] <delewis> DoYouKnow: doubtful.
[23:06:39] <delewis> AIX customers don't give a fuck about source.
[23:06:41] <DoYouKnow> I don't think they will right away since they'll want to keep it running just on RISC
[23:06:45] <g4lt-mordant> DoYouKnow, fat chance
[23:06:58] <elektronkind> nrubsig: looking for flights to the conference?
[23:07:27] <nrubsig> elektronkind: yes
[23:07:28] <g4lt-mordant> instead, they'll drop AIX in favor of F/OSS like linsux or opensolaris
[23:08:05] <elektronkind> nrubsig: you're coming from .de, yes? For you I would suggest flying through to SFO
[23:08:33] <richlowe> I doubt he'd avoid it.
[23:08:40] <richlowe> probably with a stop-over somewhere irritating.
[23:08:41] <elektronkind> SJC (san jose) would be best if you were flying domestic
[23:09:02] * elektronkind 's would gues .de to JFK or IAD, then on to SFO.
[23:09:15] <richlowe> that'd be better than what my guess would be.
[23:09:16] <elektronkind> er... "I would guess..."
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[23:11:36] <nrubsig> elektronkind: erm, note: I am not flying very often, AFAIK this is my first inter-contenental flight since four years and the 2nd year after the crash.
[23:11:52] <nrubsig> elektronkind: SFO=?
[23:12:03] <elektronkind> SFO is the code for san francisco internaltional
[23:12:26] <elektronkind> like FRA is frankfurt, etc
[23:12:30] <nrubsig> elektronkind: how far is that away from san <whereever the conference is>
[23:12:35] * g4lt-mordant thwaps nrubsig with the ICAO regulations book
[23:12:36] <nrubsig> ?
[23:13:08] <g4lt-mordant> SFO is the ICAO designator for san francisco international airport
[23:13:27] <elektronkind> nrubsig: you would certainly need either a ride or a rental car. From Santa Cruz, on a good day in friday traffic, I would say it's 1.5 hour drive max
[23:13:34] <g4lt-mordant> just like PIH is the deesingnator for my corner of hell
[23:13:43] <elektronkind> albeit, if you opt for the coastal route, it would be a rather nice drive.
[23:14:19] <nrubsig> elektronkind: renting a car would require a credit card, right ?
[23:14:35] <elektronkind> nrubsig: and a valid drivers' license, yes
[23:14:50] <nrubsig> *sigh*
[23:15:11] <nrubsig> elektronkind: well, I have the 2nd, the first one may be the problem
[23:15:12] <elektronkind> look for flights first, then devise your ground transport :)
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[23:15:52] <elektronkind> you might be able to time your arrival at SFO with others who are going to the conference.
[23:16:20] <elektronkind> it'll take coordination and maybe some waiting at the airport on your part, but it's an option
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[23:19:13] <richlowe> ground transport is hell.
[23:19:16] * elektronkind suggests that roland creates a taskq which runs collect_fellow_travellers()
[23:19:17] <richlowe> find someone else who can drive here :)
[23:22:48] <g4lt-mordant> nrubsig, you should be able to trivially get an international drivers license
[23:23:04] <nrubsig> function bool_flight { nameref person=$1 ; nameref source_airport_obj=$2 ; nameref dest_airport_obj=$3 ; do_calculate ; abort ; }
[23:23:12] <nrubsig> s/bool/book/
[23:23:54] <nrubsig> g4lt-mordant: the international drivers license is not the problem, but I need to order a credit card somehow - which is difficult without having a job to begin with.
[23:23:55] <elektronkind> g4lt-mordant: I don't think ze germans need one when here in the US
[23:24:10] <WickedWicky> nrubsig: you're in germany?
[23:24:34] <g4lt-mordant> ahh, they just give up their when asked by our SS "zu paperen, bitte"?
[23:24:54] <nrubsig> g4lt-mordant: I know my father didn't need one because he has an license so old and washed out that the police immediately accepted it - you can't fake such a washed-out thing with a 35year old photo.
[23:25:07] <WickedWicky> nrubsig: make sure you have all the correct papers plus correct passport
[23:25:09] <nrubsig> WickedWicky: yes
[23:25:27] <WickedWicky> US requires us (EU people) to have this digital passport
[23:25:47] <WickedWicky> and me (a dutchy) has to fill in some papers before being allowed to travel to the US
[23:26:22] <elektronkind> huh, what papers?
[23:26:24] <WickedWicky> Canada was way easier.. you just tell your entire life story for 45 minutes and you get a stamp
[23:26:25] <nrubsig> huh ?
[23:26:40] <elektronkind> .nl people don't need visas for the US
[23:26:44] <WickedWicky> nope
[23:26:45] <WickedWicky> not visa
[23:26:48] <WickedWicky> paper work yes
[23:26:55] <g4lt-mordant> WickedWicky, yeah, and you promise to say "..eh" after every sentence ;P
[23:26:59] <WickedWicky> eh!
[23:27:17] <WickedWicky> well actually I was seeing my gf there, so they thought I'd enter the country to never leave
[23:27:19] <elektronkind> every traveller to the US has to fill out those Customs forms.
[23:27:24] <elektronkind> ah
[23:27:41] <WickedWicky> no, I am not talking about the paper thingy in the plane, these are forms I would have to fill in here
[23:27:54] <WickedWicky> it's nothing special, but without them you might get problems at customs
[23:28:04] <elektronkind> should have told them "don't worry, it's only a international booty call"
[23:30:50] <WickedWicky> Please Note: To qualify for a nonimmigrant visa, you need to overcome the presumption in Section 214 (b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) that all visa applicants are intending immigrants. You may overcome this presumption by providing evidence that you have strong, binding ties to your home country and that you have no intention of abandoning that residence. There is not a standard set of documents required to overcome this
[23:31:06] <WickedWicky> so
[23:31:36] <WickedWicky> what I have to do is: show them how i have a cool job in NL and how i just wanna spend some days in San Diego to visit some friends
[23:32:33] <WickedWicky> and the paperwork I meant is regarding this
[23:32:35] <WickedWicky> On August 2, 2003 - The US Department of Homeland Security and the US Department of State suspended two programs that allowed certain international air passengers to travel through the United States for transit purposes without first obtaining a visa. The programs, known as the Transit Without Visa program (TWOV) and the International-to-International transit program (ITI), have been suspended. This action does not affect US citizens or
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[23:35:34] <WickedWicky> even though I dont see how that'd apply to me since I NL is one of those waiver countries.. but I get warned for it every time at the travel angency
[23:36:15] <WickedWicky> nrubsig: this is the passport I meant: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html
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[23:39:28] <WickedWicky> and germany is in the waiver program too, so in principe a valid passport which meets the requirements mentioned on the last URL mentioned should get you in
[23:40:12] <coffman> nrubsig: you can gett pre-paid credit cards in the usa
[23:40:46] <g4lt-mordant> coffman, not at the airport....
[23:40:47] <DoYouKnow> are there any ways to get connected to the skype servers in solaris?
[23:41:02] <coffman> DoYouKnow: wine
[23:41:12] <g4lt-mordant> sunpci
[23:41:23] <flyingparchment> brandz
[23:41:24] <coffman> DoYouKnow: but only text chating, no voice
[23:41:42] <coffman> win4solaris
[23:41:47] <coffman> or qemu of
[23:41:48] <coffman> c
[23:42:16] <coffman> nrubsig: last year they nailed my boss on the la airport for 8 hours
[23:43:00] <coffman> im about to accept a ms-navision job, some one have a job for me pls?!
[23:43:03] <nrubsig> coffman: what did he do ?
[23:43:36] <coffman> nrubsig: the nice person of immigration did not liked his face
[23:43:50] <coffman> something to note
[23:44:10] <coffman> he has both nations papers, us and germany
[23:44:11] <WickedWicky> a friend of mine went to Boston and they thought at customs he was living there, so the custom dudette said "welcome back Mr. <name here>", then he replied (after serious jet lag and delays on heathrow) "this aint my fucking country"
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[23:45:19] <WickedWicky> well, my experience from New Jersey: nod, smile, under all conditions stay polite, even if you suffered a sucky flight and all
[23:45:59] <WickedWicky> I had the disadvantage of having long hair and being dutch though :P
[23:46:01] <PerterB> yeah, it never pays to be rude to customs and immigration people, not matter how annoying they are
[23:46:21] <WickedWicky> so I was branded Hippy on first sight
[23:46:27] <coffman> well. we where flying to las-vegas and the ey  almost took my laptopart
[23:46:38] * nachox just updated to s10u4 :)
[23:46:59] <coffman> *lapttop apart
[23:47:08] <coffman> ffs sticky keys
[23:47:14] <g4lt-mordant> PerterB, depends, if you can do it in such a manner that they can't do anything to you and it makes their just a bit crappier, I'm all for it
[23:47:32] <WickedWicky> I'd be game
[23:47:33] <WickedWicky> :P
[23:47:39] <PerterB> oh, but they can *always* do things to you if they're so minded
[23:49:22] <WickedWicky> I never really had problems traveling.. the only sucky thing i had was the federal police in Brazil being on strike
[23:49:39] <WickedWicky> so they had 1 custom dude for all international passengers on Sao Paulo airport
[23:50:01] <WickedWicky> oh and of course being stuck on NJ airport in 2000 in January due to snow
[23:50:23] <WickedWicky> 2001
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[23:51:07] <WickedWicky> which was odd.. you go from celebrating the millenium in Fortaleza/Brazil to NJ with a pack of snow in less than 24 hours
[23:52:08] <coffman> so who has a student job for me in germany, region frankfurt?
[23:52:23] <WickedWicky> ich nicht
[23:52:44] <coffman> hmpf
[23:52:48] <coffman> im cheap!
[23:52:58] <WickedWicky> so am I
[23:53:01] <WickedWicky> but I am not in germany :P
[23:53:04] <coffman> heh
[23:53:15] <coffman> WickedWicky: where you at atm?
[23:53:22] <WickedWicky> Amsterdam
[23:53:38] <coffman> ic. where you from?
[23:53:45] <WickedWicky> Amsterdam
[23:53:58] <WickedWicky> but i lived abroad for two years
[23:54:07] <coffman> ic
[23:54:20] <WickedWicky> one year London/UK, one year Rio de Janeiro
[23:55:01] <WickedWicky> once.. when I was young and innocent
[23:55:07] <coffman> heh
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[23:55:23] <WickedWicky> now I am getting close to my 30s
[23:55:24] <WickedWicky> *sob*
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[23:55:29] <coffman> had to choose last year, usa or afghanistan
[23:55:39] <WickedWicky> army?
[23:55:46] <coffman> worse
[23:56:12] <WickedWicky> cant guess
[23:56:13] <g4lt-mordant> WickedWicky, bah, you're a full decade younger than me
[23:56:24] <WickedWicky> yes but you're canadian
[23:56:27] <WickedWicky> that scores points eh
[23:56:30] <g4lt-mordant> no
[23:56:34] <coffman> civil contracting
[23:57:13] <WickedWicky> civil contracting? in replacement for army duty? or?
[23:57:18] <WickedWicky> g4lt-mordant: I thought you were :s
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[23:57:48] <g4lt-mordant> no, I really ment it when I said that my airpoir had the ICAO designator of PIH
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