[00:03:15] *** nachox has joined #opensolaris
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[00:06:06] <Berny> we were all newbies once... ;-)
[00:07:07] <jmcp> no we weren't
[00:07:11] <jmcp> :-P
[00:07:33] <kjetilho> me neither
[00:07:48] <jmcp> I was a brat, not a noob
[00:07:51] <kjetilho> when I was a n00b, I had to use telnet to talk IRC since there was no client available
[00:08:03] * dlg a newb
[00:08:12] <jmcp> I mailed vmunix to somebody I didn't like during 1st year uni
[00:08:22] <jmcp> not very original
[00:13:02] <tsp> I once edited my friends profile so that every time he logged in, it would ask him to multiply two random numbers been 0 and 12 - if the answer was wrong, it would log him out
[00:13:08] <tsp> s/been/between
[00:13:15] * jmcp snorts
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[00:13:41] <tsp> it was roots .profile though, that made it even funnier
[00:13:49] * Berny used to hack hp/ux and irix boxen (and point the admins to the exploit) and soon after that was appointed student admin :-\
[00:14:06] <Berny> lol tsp
[00:14:37] <Berny> in my first job we randomised the auto_home map on april fools day
[00:14:47] <tsp> ouch
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[00:15:09] <Berny> na that was fun
[00:15:23] <Berny> pre-x sessions that was
[00:17:09] <nachox> i can see many things going bad with a randomized auto_home :)
[00:17:28] <tsp> unfortunately the only unix boxes I've been on are my own and a cupple of friends - I once typed !id as a joke on a telnet bbs and got an uid of root, but never found the palce again
[00:17:51] *** derchris has quit IRC
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[00:18:39] <Berny> heheh the the "chief" adminess of my uni used to have her firstname as password (and was listed in roots .rhosts)
[00:18:46] <Berny> lotsa fun back then
[00:18:52] <tsp> heh
[00:18:53] <nachox> ok. nasty
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[00:19:19] <Berny> she was also the one to hold beginners unix courses praying for strong passwords
[00:19:24] <jmcp> head>desk
[00:19:28] <tsp> free shell providers menu systems are always fun to break out of
[00:19:30] <jmcp> that's so shtooooopid!
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[00:19:43] <tsp> get into an editor and its all over, shell out
[00:20:12] <jbk> evening
[00:20:35] <Berny> or one of the old irix boxen - account with uid 0 and no password...
[00:20:46] * jmcp heads into a meeting
[00:20:54] <Berny> admin didn't respond to mail twice... powered it off twice then he learned...
[00:21:00] <Berny> have fun jmcp
[00:21:01] <tsp> of course there's always the emergency syslog channel that anyone can access
[00:21:08] <tsp> by default it screams to everyone
[00:21:14] <jbk> amusing
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[00:21:30] <jbk> there's supposed to be a local opensolaris group meeting tonight, but no location was ever announced
[00:21:33] <Berny> that was >10years ago
[00:21:53] <Berny> we were young and needed entertainment :-)
[00:22:06] <Berny> jbk: try all local pubs+
[00:22:23] <jbk> that could take a while :)
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[00:22:32] <nachox> jbk, it's a secret opensolaris meeting of course
[00:22:32] <Gman> jbk, local sun office?
[00:22:36] <Berny> pub crawls are funny :-P
[00:22:40] <jbk> Gman: no idea where that even is :)
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[00:22:45] <nachox> hey Gman :)
[00:22:57] <Berny> hey glynn
[00:23:03] <Gman> hey hey hey
[00:23:41] <Gman> jbk, area?
[00:23:51] <Berny> hows things? you enjoyed boarding i read...
[00:23:55] <SYS64738> how works name resolving in non global zones ?
[00:24:13] <nachox> the way you configure it
[00:24:28] <tomww> SYS64738: locally configured
[00:24:35] <Gman> Berny, yeah, was totally ace
[00:24:47] * Gman looking forward to having a boarding session up in tahoe next :)
[00:24:48] <tomww> to speak, in zones owen /etc all the name resolution stuff
[00:24:57] <SYS64738> I started the zone as non networked
[00:25:03] <jbk> Gman: houston
[00:25:17] <tomww> SYS64738: so, no networked name-resolution available
[00:25:24] <jbk> for comparison, the houston metro area is about 4x the size of nyc
[00:25:27] <SYS64738> how can I tell her to use dns ?
[00:25:30] <jbk> and larger than the state of maryland
[00:25:47] <nachox> SYS64738, sure, check /etc/nsswitch.conf in your zone
[00:25:59] <Gman> jbk, i know jay ther
[00:26:00] <Gman> e
[00:26:03] <SYS64738> thanks
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[00:26:06] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig
[00:26:07] <Berny> Gman: make a video ;-)
[00:26:08] <nachox> read the related man page while youre at it
[00:26:18] <jbk> jay?
[00:26:26] <tomww> SYS64738: setup a network-interface, an ip address with that, then user the /etc/nsswitch* examples and fill /etc/resolv.conf
[00:26:27] <nachox> damn, its nrubsig, we were so happy without him
[00:26:32] <nachox> err, i mean... :P
[00:26:44] <nrubsig> nachox: thank you.
[00:26:47] <Gman> jbk, jay edwards
[00:26:53] <Gman> jbk, looks like it's Thursday, Sep 6, 2007, 7:00 PM
[00:27:08] <nachox> nrubsig, any time... why are you thanking btw? :)
[00:27:12] <jbk> but where? :)
[00:27:21] <Gman> yeah, that's not clear :)
[00:27:24] <Gman> 'I'm looking for space for the meeting right now -- two potential locations are the HTC and the Sun Microsystem office.'
[00:27:26] <nrubsig> nachox: if I ever commit ruitual suicide by komodo dragons I'll list your comment here as the reason.
[00:27:42] <jbk> not sure what 'htc' is supposed to be
[00:27:43] <nachox> nrubsig, that would be an honor, thanks
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[00:27:56] <Gman> jbk, sending you and jay a mail
[00:28:01] <nrubsig> dmarker: ping!
[00:29:25] * elektronkind 's brain asplodes
[00:29:39] <nachox> asplode?
[00:29:40] <nrubsig> asplodes ?
[00:30:02] <elektronkind> implementing a alternative to ILL_* and friends using nothing put Public interfaces is making my brain cry
[00:30:11] <nachox> he probably wrote that after the brain exploded
[00:30:12] <nrubsig> brain hyperplosion  after ingestion of aspirin-nitrate ?
[00:31:12] <flyingparchment> does anyone know if roch's "ztune.sh" (for zfs OLTP tuning) is still applicable to S10U3?
[00:31:14] <libkeiser> you're trying to hack on afs, aren't you?  that's your real problem, not the ill api :-P
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[00:31:37] <elektronkind> libkeiser: I feel like the chick stuck to the wall in the movie Alien
[00:31:39] <elektronkind> er Aliens
[00:31:53] <elektronkind> kill... meeeeee....
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[00:32:19] <nachox> elektronkind, go to sleep
[00:32:35] <nachox> you cant even type :)
[00:32:44] <libkeiser> it could be worse -- you could be trying to make our wonderfully gpl-incompatible code load on linux
[00:32:46] <nrubsig> nachox: want to initiate a "votekick" ?
[00:32:49] * elektronkind runs around the office with his arm up his shirt and hand out his collar
[00:33:09] <nachox> nrubsig, isnt that abuse of power?
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[00:33:37] <nachox> i know that probably earnt me a kickvote but i just had to ask :)
[00:33:38] <nrubsig> nachox: it's practical democracy - you vote, I execute.
[00:33:41] <libkeiser> hmm. i think that's the first valid use of "wonderful" and "our code" that could possibly apply to afs
[00:33:53] <elektronkind> libkeiser: Linux is a true gauntlet for the patience of the AFS coders who maintain that, I imagine
[00:34:06] <nrubsig> nachox: erm "votekick" means you need <n> votes in <x> mins, usually n=5, x=1
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[00:34:38] <elektronkind> on the bright side, I've discovered the wonders of kmem_zalloc()
[00:35:21] *** WiseGamji has left #opensolaris
[00:35:26] <nachox> nrubsig, i see, sounds fun.... except when you're the one being kicked :)
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[00:36:11] <nrubsig> nachox: yes, but I can't imagine that I can abuse my powers with that - I only manage the stuff and do the kick on demand but I don't vote myself.
[00:37:29] * alanc hits return and watches his putback remove the all the contents of the closed-src dir in the X consolidation
[00:37:35] <jmcp> w00t!
[00:37:40] <jmcp> alanc: good stuff :-)
[00:37:47] <nachox> nice
[00:38:01] <nrubsig> alanc: erm, what about libX11's SME ?
[00:38:06] <richlowe> assuming it was intentional, woohoo
[00:38:06] <alanc> unfortunately, that's just the small bit of "known closed" bits, and not the huge bulk of the old bits not yet converted from X11R6 yet
[00:38:27] <jmcp> it's a step in the right direction
[00:38:34] <alanc> closed-src only had one subdir: bitstream
[00:38:41] <nrubsig> erm
[00:38:48] <alanc> putback was for "6601438 Xorg on Solaris should use freetype for TrueType font rendering"
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[00:38:52] <nrubsig> alanc: you abandon the bitstream renderer ?
[00:39:06] <elektronkind> might as well
[00:39:15] <nachox> and you replaced it with dejavu?
[00:39:34] <nachox> ohh, truetype
[00:39:35] <nrubsig> elektronkind: yeah, but bitstream does much better work with TTF fonts than the freetype junk
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[00:40:06] <elektronkind> unlike licensing agreements for closed bitstream code, that is fixable
[00:40:07] <alanc> nrubsig: libX11 SME should be open once we finish the move to X11R7 libX11, which is waiting on the g11n guys to bring us compatibility between it and the Solaris input methods
[00:40:09] <nrubsig> alanc: I hope you enable the bytecode interpreter in freetype before doing the switch...
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[00:40:38] <alanc> nrubsig: yes, we dropped bitstream renderer in Xorg for one that we can freely redistribute
[00:41:01] * nrubsig shakes his head
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[00:41:23] <alanc> nachox: dejavu fonts are just waiting for legal to finish license review, but that's unrelated to this
[00:41:26] <nrubsig> It's "free at all costs" again, even if the quality drops below the bottom.
[00:41:31] <alanc> yep
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[00:41:55] <nachox> that is just sad
[00:42:01] <kjetilho> the bitstream renderer doesn't have Cleartype-like technology, does it?
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[00:42:21] <nrubsig> kjetilho: it wasn't needed
[00:42:25] <alanc> though the quality of the bitstream code itself wasn't that great - I wasted two weeks making it 64-bit clean for the 64-bit Xorg port, and there were still bugs in there
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[00:43:01] <alanc> kjetilho: no, this is the pure black-and-white, no-antialiasing-possible, ancient core X11 font code, which you almost never see running when using GNOME
[00:43:01] <Berny> .oO(fix by rm)
[00:43:05] <nrubsig> kjetilho: the bitstream font rasterizer didn't need antialising to hide rasterrizing bugs like freetype does.
[00:43:10] <kjetilho> nrubsig: haha
[00:43:21] <nrubsig> seriously
[00:43:43] <nrubsig> first victim are asian users
[00:43:47] <kjetilho> nrubsig: no, that's bullshit.
[00:44:08] <kjetilho> ok, perhaps Cleartype is unneeded, but AA is required for good shapes
[00:44:11] <nrubsig> kjetilho: do you want a flamewar, HERE and NOW about freetype's font rasterizing quality ?
[00:44:13] <alanc> only if they still use the remaining bits of CDE, and not GNOME
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[00:44:23] <alanc> otherwise, they're already using freetype
[00:44:27] <nrubsig> kjetilho: just say one word...
[00:44:28] <kjetilho> nrubsig: I'm actually heading for bed :)
[00:44:35] <nrubsig> good for you
[00:44:40] <nrubsig> xx@@@@!!!!!
[00:44:44] <Berny> :>
[00:44:52] <Berny> popcorn anyone?
[00:45:00] <nrubsig> blood anyone ?
[00:45:11] <Berny> with popcorn?
[00:45:13] <nrubsig> yes
[00:45:23] <Berny> you wierdo ;-)
[00:45:34] <kjetilho> alanc: Type1 only, too?
[00:45:37] <nrubsig> kjetilho donates all of his blood if he continues to claim that FT's TTF rasterizer is good.
[00:45:48] <alanc> freetype does TrueType & Type1
[00:46:00] <kjetilho> alanc: I meant the bitstream
[00:46:12] <alanc> bitstream was only used for TrueType
[00:46:46] <kjetilho> ok.  I'm a bit hazy on the old formats, I think Sun used T3 initially?
[00:46:49] <alanc> Xsun used DPS for Type1, so we never needed anything else there, and Xorg already had Type1 code, so we never did the work to re-enable the Type1 code in bitstream
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[00:47:28] * Berny heads off to bed..
[00:47:29] <alanc> long ago Sun used F3, which was a competitor to PostScript Type1/Type3 that Sun bought, but that's long dead
[00:47:38] <kjetilho> ah, F3, right.
[00:48:19] <alanc> (except that we never actually removed the F3 code from Xsun)
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[00:49:20] <nachox> hehe, removing code is so much harder than adding code :)
[00:50:18] <kjetilho> you'd be amazed how many of our professors still swear by gallant.r19
[00:50:26] <kjetilho> (which is a bitmap font, but still)
[00:50:58] <kjetilho> so I think it's good old fonts continue to be supported :)
[00:51:20] <alanc> fortunately, since this was replacing it with a drop-in replacement, no EOL process was needed, unlike many code removals
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[00:54:22] <nrubsig> alanc: that's not correct. you need an EOL notice.
[00:54:39] <nrubsig> alanc: "EOL of good truetype rasterizing quality for X11 core fonts"
[00:55:25] <nachox> cohh, i'm sure there are people working on improving freetype
[00:55:52] <alanc> the exact set of pixels emitted is not an interface, so there's no interface change
[00:56:14] <elektronkind> yar
[00:56:23] <elektronkind> new apple keyboards look weird
[00:56:23] <elektronkind> http://www.apple.com/keyboard/
[00:56:30] <nrubsig> nachox: lots of rants could be avoided by enabling the ttf bytecode interpreter but somehow I need to shoot a few people at sun (lawyers!) before this may happen.
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[00:56:51] <victori> can opensolaris be installed via pxe net install?
[00:56:55] <flyingparchment> yes
[00:56:56] <nachox> nrubsig, specially now with the netapp crap
[00:56:57] <elektronkind> victori: yup
[00:57:02] <victori> perfect
[00:57:06] <elektronkind> I pxe boot/jumpstart all the time
[00:57:41] <victori> I will be doing a pxe boot from a freebsd server,  so  (tftp+nfs+dhcp configuration)
[00:57:50] <elektronkind> yup
[00:58:02] <victori> ok perfect
[00:58:08] <elektronkind> serve pxegrub and a menu.lst from tftp
[00:58:22] <victori> any docs you would recommend?
[00:58:26] <kjetilho> who owns the bytecode interpreter patent?
[00:58:27] <elektronkind> the jumpstart docs are pretty decent wrt setting it all up
[00:58:34] <flyingparchment> victori: google for 'solaris jumpstart linux' (or freebsd)
[00:58:45] <elektronkind> look for the Solaris 10 Install manual
[00:58:47] <flyingparchment> there are lots of how-tos about it
[00:58:49] <victori> thanks
[00:59:08] <elektronkind> there's also JET - Jumpstart Enterprise Toolkit
[00:59:25] <elektronkind> you might like using that
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[00:59:49] <victori> looking at the docs, seems simple, thanks
[01:00:13] * alanc has no further comment on that line of questioning since someone said the evil P word, and can only point to the statement that the GNOME font preferences pops up when you turn on full-hinting there
[01:00:20] <kjetilho> don't Apple owe the free software community to grant them a license? :-/
[01:00:25] <kjetilho> hehe
[01:01:08] <elektronkind> it seems like you can't even take a poop without paying someone a royalty these days
[01:01:37] <elektronkind> Patent 38259034892: Method and Aparatus for taking a crap
[01:02:12] <nachox> alanc, "people"? :)
[01:03:06] <nrubsig> http://www.google.com/patents?id=5m97AAAAEBAJ&dq=crap
[01:03:07] <stevel> huh. my compiz cube has become a compiz octagon
[01:03:12] <nrubsig> crapless crap
[01:03:20] <flyingparchment> stevel: serves you right for using compiz
[01:03:53] <flyingparchment> which solaris manual documents FMA?
[01:04:03] <nachox> compiz can be made usefull, wonder if it will ever be included in nevada
[01:04:04] * alanc also cannot explain the source that is contained in http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/fox/fox-gate/XW_NV/open-src/lib/freetype/freetype-2.1.10.hint.patch
[01:04:51] <stevel> i find compiz useful
[01:05:07] <alanc> nachox: been discussed - biggest blockers to compiz integration are the still sparse number of video cards with good accelerated 3-D support and some concerns over the quality of compiz, though improvements continue to be made in both areas
[01:06:41] <dduvall> stevel is ten times more productive with compiz
[01:06:46] <nachox> alanc, well nevada does ship with the nvidia drivers by default, also there is support for intel, maybe there is a way to enable it only for the pcs that come with those?
[01:07:09] <dduvall> And some people are vehemently opposed to including compiz, it seems.
[01:07:10] * flyingparchment fails to find anything about fma in the basic or advanced admin guide
[01:07:20] <stevel> dduvall: not true. i believe i said 48% in #onnv this morning :)
[01:07:35] <alanc> the JDS guys are the ones that have been dealing with it, they're the ones that need convincing one way or the other
[01:07:40] <dduvall> That's pretty close to ten times.
[01:07:51] <stevel> ....
[01:08:01] <stevel> guess you don't have to do much math in packaging land, eh?
[01:08:05] <nachox> alanc, ok, i can blame Gman now, thanks, thats all i needed ;)
[01:08:08] <Gman> stevel, many workspaces?
[01:08:09] * stevel ducks
[01:08:16] <jbk> or they're former astronomers :)
[01:08:19] <alanc> some people, even in offices just down the hall from mine, are still running the S8 OpenWin packages on their Nevada workstations
[01:08:33] <stevel> gman: no, just 4 - it just seems to not grok my dual-head correctly
[01:08:40] <stevel> wait. i don't need to duck here.
[01:08:44] <nachox> hehe, excellent timing :)
[01:08:46] <stevel> this isn't #onnv.
[01:08:59] <tomww> hmmm. as long as many (48%?) developers own ATI-Cards in theyr machines, compiz has not so good standing :-)
[01:09:17] <Gman> alanc, some people suck though :)
[01:09:49] <alanc> at least I think the last copy of SunView in MPK17 left the building a couple years ago
[01:10:14] <stevel> we should make bumper sticks
[01:10:14] <wesolows> or maybe some people prefer something that works well and consumes maybe 10MB of memory to something containing millions of lines of unreviewed code that consumes gigabytes
[01:10:20] <stevel> "ATI people suck"
[01:10:21] <wesolows> I guess we each define "suck" in our own way
[01:10:27] <tomww> alanc: the JDS guys seems to me have a lot of work, other kind of exe-candy?
[01:10:34] <Gman> wesolows, yep
[01:11:19] * tomww defines conditional_suck
[01:11:28] <wesolows> #pragma redefine_suck
[01:11:39] <nrubsig> alanc: can you please check the triage queue ?
[01:11:58] * Gman more than pleased with the state of desktop suck
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[01:12:12] <alanc> nrubsig: 6601968 RFE: Add /usr/lib/shell/ksh/ as a place to store loadable shell functions
[01:12:32] <alanc> didn't even have to check the filer to know which bug you were interested in...
[01:12:53] <tomww> *lol*
[01:13:05] <nrubsig> alanc: I hope the example code is easy enougth to understand for everyone... =:-)
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[01:13:49] <wesolows> it's not; it looks like someone trying to write a program in a scripting language
[01:13:56] <alanc> but what if we decide to drop sun.com for java.com as Sun's primary DNS domain?
[01:14:09] * alanc ducks
[01:14:23] <sfire||mouse> I'm following http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:yqhwrM8n1vkJ:meljr.com/~meljr/PHPSolaris10.html+solaris+10+php&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a, and for compiling libxml2, there is the standard comment about libraries being installed in /usr/local/lib   With a default Solaris 10, is there anything I need to check and make sure it will work.  I know on linux I would edit /etc/ld.so.conf
[01:15:00] <nrubsig> wesolows: well, ksh is a programming language...
[01:15:03] * tomww suggests tinyurl.org
[01:15:34] * kjetilho is too tired to do the "use rpath, LD_LIBRARY_PATH and crle are evil" speach
[01:15:37] <sfire||mouse> tomww: thats one good start :)
[01:15:56] <jbk> does solaris 10+ come with libxml2?
[01:16:00] <alanc> you don't want to change the primary library path to put your libxml2 first, since much of the core OS depends on libxml2
[01:16:01] <wesolows> add -R/path/to/libraries to your link line when building your software
[01:16:03] <jbk> or is that a different library?
[01:16:08] <wesolows> Do not use crle
[01:16:22] <nrubsig> wesolows: my point is that much of the stuff used by OS/Net and other things could benefit from a shared shell function pool
[01:16:23] <wesolows> I think we have libxml2 only in the latest build
[01:16:24] <SYS64738> has anyone edited the netqmail.patch to make it work in solaris enviroment ?
[01:16:29] <flyingparchment> jbk: it does, but it's too old for php in S10
[01:16:36] <jbk> ahh
[01:16:38] <nrubsig> wesolows: yes, at least B61 ships with libxml2
[01:16:47] <wesolows> nrubsig: I agree with that; there's precedent in the form of SMF stuff
[01:16:57] <nrubsig> wesolows: ?!
[01:16:59] <Gman> jbk, it should do, smf relies on it
[01:17:16] <jbk> then yeah, LDFLAGS='-R /path/to/your/libxml2' ./configure
[01:17:20] <jbk> Gman: that's what i thought
[01:17:28] <wesolows> jbk: -L also, surely
[01:17:30] <sfire||mouse> wesolows: is the -R what kjetilho was talking about when rpath was mentioned?
[01:17:37] <wesolows> sfire||mouse: yes
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[01:17:55] <wesolows> he was too tired; I chipped in
[01:18:14] <nrubsig> wesolows: what do you mean with the SMF comment ?
[01:18:41] <wesolows> nrubsig: /lib/svc/share
[01:18:41] <sfire||mouse> so if I'm running bash, export LDFLAGS='-R /usr/local/lib/'  then continue compiling?
[01:18:57] <nrubsig> wesolows: grrr
[01:18:59] <wesolows> sfire||mouse: That's unlikely to work; autoconf/automake generally wants those set at configure time
[01:18:59] <kjetilho> let me just say that LD_RUN_PATH is a useful shortcut while compiling
[01:19:02] <nrubsig> wesolows: I saw these "scripts"
[01:19:06] <kjetilho> but now, sleep :-)
[01:19:16] <nrubsig> wesolows: and half the authors should be fed to something with more than tree heads
[01:19:17] <flyingparchment> autoconf should honour $LDFLAGS in the environment
[01:19:28] <wesolows> nrubsig: They're humble scripts that are useful and have no pretension to being programs.
[01:19:34] <sfire||mouse> kjetilho: time for me to google, thanks
[01:20:05] <elektronkind> flyingparchment: did you export LDFLAGS?
[01:20:18] <flyingparchment> elektronkind: i'm not the one building the program
[01:20:18] <jbk> sfire||mouse: basically you'll need to re-run configure
[01:20:38] <elektronkind> ah, right
[01:20:39] <nrubsig> wesolows: well, the style and implementation could be better.
[01:20:45] <jbk> either by setting & exporting LDFLAGS first, or do 'LDFLAGS="-L /usr/local/lib -R /usr/local/lib" ./configure'
[01:20:48] <nrubsig> wesolows: at least with a better, less sucky shell
[01:21:23] <nrubsig> wesolows: I'm suprised that noone revolved yet and refused to touch those scripts
[01:21:33] <sfire||mouse> jbk: thanks
[01:22:24] <wesolows> I'm glad there's someone who's as passionate about shells as the people who designed SMF are about system management.
[01:23:46] <nachox> nrubsig, they seem to be pretty clean and well commented though
[01:24:11] <nrubsig> wesolows: well, it's not about passion, it's about that this stuff is a ticking time bomb. half of the code doesn't even use quotes around values which come from outside and that's a cheap way to inject code.
[01:24:50] <wesolows> If you can describe specific vulnerabilities, please file bugs!
[01:25:03] <SYS64738> wich are differences between patch and gpatch ?
[01:25:33] <nrubsig> wesolows: then you only put quotes around the _one_ case where it may break - but I strongly doubt the general issue would be addressed.
[01:27:29] <wesolows> an umbrella bug is appropriate in that sort of situation
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[01:32:59] *** nrubsig sets mode: +o alanc
[01:33:10] * nrubsig needs to talk to someone about alanc's /op status.
[01:33:37] <wesolows> why?
[01:33:52] <wesolows> the only person who can fix it is, I think, benr
[01:33:57] <wesolows> to have chanserv auto-op him
[01:34:15] <nrubsig> wesolows: because alanc is almost always here and more ops may be usefull. And I trust him and met him personally.
[01:35:30] <wesolows> yes, I have no problem with any of that.  But I believe from a technical perspective benr is the only one who can effect the change
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[01:37:23] <tomww> flyingparchment: which java-version comes into use?
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[01:39:54] <nachox> only the channel owner can give op status to others iirc
[01:40:02] <tomww> flyingparchment: I would bet, is is the 1.6 version. look for the /usr/java link, reassing if from 1.6 to the 1.5 kit and don't forget to redo that after uninstall
[01:40:43] <nrubsig> nachox: yesyes, I know... but I didn't want to post Mr. X's name around.
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[01:41:11] * LuckyLuk1 starts to think BMW owes him an iPod.
[01:41:12] <wesolows> there's no harm in it
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[01:42:10] <nrubsig> wesolows: erm, I think lilo would disagree. Technicially only the channel admins know the channel owner and don't post the name around in the public... but that's another, loooong story.
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[01:43:03] <wesolows> it's not for me to tell others how paranoid to be, only to decide how paranoid I should be
[01:43:54] <nrubsig> wesolows: look behind you...
[01:43:58] <nrubsig> =:-)
[01:44:25] <Gman> nrubsig, you worry about strange things :)
[01:44:58] <nrubsig> yes, pink things whic make "squuuaaaaarkkkiquak"
[01:45:13] <nrubsig> (at noon)
[01:45:23] <nrubsig> anyway
[01:45:28] <nrubsig> http://www.google.com/patents?id=0gwXAAAAEBAJ&d
[01:45:36] <nrubsig> is that javaexec or something else ?
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[01:46:23] <unixware> does sun messaging server is easy to install?
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[01:48:01] <Auralis> about as self brain surgery
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[01:48:16] <LeftWing> unixware: The most recent installers (~6.3) are a bit more robust than previous ones, but you definitely still need to understand the product.
[01:48:17] <unixware> ahh ok :)
[01:48:25] <LeftWing> At least on some small scale.
[01:49:04] <unixware> the config is by editing the file or a web interface configuration?
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[01:49:13] <nrubsig> flash loves me
[01:49:16] <nrubsig> (again)
[01:50:02] <nachox> you're using chatzilla?
[01:50:16] <LeftWing> unixware: There's probably a graphical or web tool for some changes, but files and configutil (a CLI) still feature heavily.  Things like mail accounts and domains tend to come from an LDAP Directory.
[01:50:19] <nachox> you deserve to be kicked out of irc
[01:50:52] <tomww> nrubsig: this new beast not reaching the golden colorlight does not?
[01:50:55] <unixware> LeftWing ahh ok :)
[01:51:28] <LeftWing> unixware: The Admin Guide on docs.sun.com is quite good and contains a lot of How-To type snippets for common operations and other information.
[01:52:01] <unixware> lets try it then :)
[01:52:13] <nrubsig> tomww: ?!
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[02:02:19] <Gman> for any current lwn subscribers (wait a week if you're not), http://lwn.net/Articles/248195/
[02:02:52] <nachox> at least tell us what it is about :)
[02:03:25] <nrubsig> porn
[02:03:38] <nrubsig> naked chicken
[02:03:42] <nrubsig> featherless!
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[02:04:19] <nachox> bah, there is no way i will wait one week for porn, 95% of the web is porn, i'm sure i can find something as good there
[02:04:33] <Gman> nachox, distribution panel at the recent linux kernel summit
[02:05:08] <nachox> "distribution panel"?
[02:05:56] <Gman> nachox, issues that distributions are having with kernel and working upstream
[02:06:51] <LuckyLuke> http://www.piercecollege.edu/faculty/shapirls/naked_chicken.htm
[02:07:01] <LuckyLuke> is this the p0rn you're referring to?
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[02:08:11] <LuckyLuke> but that talks of 2002, pretty old. even if I must admit it's also pretty naked.
[02:08:41] <nrubsig> cool
[02:08:55] <nrubsig> Newest picture of wesolows: http://www.piercecollege.edu/faculty/shapirls/1021918773.4094255167.jpg
[02:08:58] * nrubsig hides
[02:09:32] <LuckyLuke> which of the two? :D
[02:10:07] * nrubsig hides deeper and starts digging a hole to escape wesolows's wrath
[02:10:50] <wesolows> I'm neither the chick nor the chicken
[02:10:51] <Tempt> nachox: We could have a CTCP VERSION on join, and only support a limited set of clients or people smart enough to spoof their way past it.
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[02:11:47] <nachox> Tempt, it's either chatzilla or gaim in solaris
[02:11:48] <nrubsig> wesolows: prove it!
[02:12:01] <wesolows> there are pics of me out there somewhere
[02:12:06] <wesolows> probably from oscon
[02:12:08] <nachox> Tempt, xchat
[02:12:09] <Tempt> Arrgh, noooooo.....
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[02:12:24] <wesolows> nachox: excuse me?  those of us who are civilised used irssi
[02:12:28] <wesolows> *use
[02:12:40] <Tempt> ircii or irsii or bx or telnet
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[02:12:46] <Tempt> That sounds like a fair and reasonable clientlist
[02:13:04] <nachox> wesolows, i use it too, but not while on windows, irssi and screen are the sh*t
[02:13:06] <flyingparchment> ircii-epic
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[02:14:20] <flyingparchment> + irssi should be disallowed, it's too trendy
[02:14:54] <LuckyLuke> I've always used irssi and only irssi, and I don't think I ever run it outside of screen. And I also think I never read the fsck'ing manual. This could explain why I don't use / don't know how to use anything in irssi other than writing, joining, switching windows.
[02:15:06] <nrubsig> flyingparchment: maybe we should just close this channel or what ?
[02:15:42] <nachox> wesolows, i'm surprised you're not pushing for irssi's inclusion in nevada :)
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[02:17:13] <tomww> SFEirssi.spec :-)
[02:17:19] <LuckyLuke> a research project to develop succulent, low fat poultry
[02:17:20] <LuckyLuke> mmm
[02:17:23] <LuckyLuke> succulent.
[02:17:56] <nrubsig> you mean "succubus", right ?
[02:18:16] * nrubsig checks wheher wesolows has any satanic horns or claws...
[02:18:26] <nrubsig> nope
[02:18:28] <nrubsig> clean
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[02:19:44] <wesolows> nachox: Unlike most people here, I don't give a shit whether every single program I might ever use is in the WOS.
[02:19:59] <nrubsig> WOS=?
[02:20:30] <wesolows> And I'm not going to argue for my personal preference unless someone else wants to argue for theirs.  Better not to supply an IRC client at all; it's hardly a part of the operating system nor is it depended upon by anything else.
[02:20:44] <Tempt> LuckyLuke: Is there a manual for irssi? :)
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[02:21:12] <Tempt> wesolows: Ooh, that's an intesting idea.
[02:21:13] <nrubsig> wesolows: erm, technically I could add a irc client as part of /usr/demo/ksh/fun/ ...
[02:21:16] <wesolows> nrubsig: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/devref_toc/devref_glossary/
[02:21:20] <Tempt> wesolows: Only bundle stuff that is part of the OS
[02:21:23] <Tempt> wesolows: It'd be like a trip back to 2.5.1
[02:21:36] <nachox> nod
[02:21:53] <wesolows> Tempt: given the choice between a barely-usable environment and a bloated tub of other people's biases, I'd prefer the former
[02:22:05] <nachox> nrubsig, you coded an irc client in ksh?
[02:22:16] <nrubsig> nachox: yes
[02:22:22] <Tempt> wesolows: So would I. I can always install my own packages. I can even compile them.
[02:22:23] <nrubsig> easy
[02:22:24] <oninoshiko> nrubsig: why?
[02:22:27] <wesolows> Yep
[02:22:37] <nrubsig> oninoshiko: as demo for the "poll" builtin
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[02:22:43] <Tempt> wesolows: If they dropped GNOME and all the bits of crap, they could fit Studio onto the DVD
[02:22:46] <oninoshiko> lol
[02:22:55] <wesolows> And then we don't have to have ARC fights over whether --enable-some-complicated-dependency makes sense, or thrash around endlessly trying to work around fucking libtool.
[02:23:06] <Tempt> And more time could be put into
[02:23:08] <Tempt> device drivers
[02:23:11] <Tempt> core OS functionality
[02:23:13] <wesolows> no kidding - or better yet, just cc, CC, and lint.
[02:23:16] <wesolows> as God intended
[02:23:21] <oninoshiko> w00t!!! device drivers
[02:23:24] <nrubsig> wesolows: and we could avoid /usr/gnu/bin/, too.
[02:23:32] <wesolows> condemning the useless sunstudio and netbeans to history's dustbin
[02:23:33] <Tempt> We could, we could!
[02:23:35] <nrubsig> wesolows: and dbx
[02:23:46] <wesolows> nrubsig: no.  the debugger is mdb.
[02:23:50] <oninoshiko> no more people arguing over needing to include ksh?
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[02:23:57] <Tempt> Nup
[02:24:01] <nachox> wesolows, damn you, i can almost see you running an opensolaris-gentoo variation
[02:24:03] <Tempt> You get get /bin/sh and that's all
[02:24:17] <wesolows> nachox: I thought about it, way back when.  It's not really all that hard.
[02:24:26] <LeftWing> Tempt: Just enough shell to install another shell? :P
[02:24:31] * oninoshiko puts on asbestos undergarments
[02:24:33] <Tempt> LeftWing: Correct.
[02:24:35] <wesolows> nachox: But my interests have shifted, and in the meantime people go on damaging solaris to satisfy the weenie contingent.
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[02:24:39] <nachox> wesolows, it is not really that productive
[02:24:40] <Tempt> And man
[02:24:47] <Tempt> the install would be down under the 500Mb mark
[02:24:52] <Tempt> and life would be sweet again.
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[02:25:54] <wesolows> nachox: gentoo has some bad ideas, but the basic concept isn't that bad.  Fixing the compile flags and limiting USE to some reasonable bounds would be fine - and since the underlying OS is stable, there's much less incentive to build your own stuff.  The effort goes into replacing auto* with makefiles and testing.
[02:26:49] <wesolows> In other words, what SFW should have been
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[02:27:06] <nachox> wesolows, sorry, gentoo is a support nightmare, it is impossible to depploy in a big scale, it's just a bad idea
[02:27:21] <wesolows> you missed the point
[02:27:40] <wesolows> your statement is correct, indisputable, and not at all applicable to what I'm describing
[02:28:31] <wesolows> the binary packages are those delivered with a set of USE flags which are architecturally consistent.  Because those rely only on a stable OS and on other reliable interfaces, they are stable and supportable.
[02:28:44] <wesolows> the infrastructure exists to create a customised, but unsupported, set of packages
[02:28:49] <wesolows> by building them yourself
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[02:29:24] <wesolows> You get to choose - supported and fixed, or unsupported and customised (possibly in an architecturally hazardous way)
[02:29:48] <wesolows> but whichever you choose, you get to leverage the actual work, which is replacing dodgy build systems with stuff that actually works
[02:29:59] <wesolows> gentoo tries to wrap it
[02:30:10] <wesolows> but that's only marginally useful, and ends up being really hackish
[02:30:15] <nachox> compiling every app you want is a major waste of time
[02:30:23] <wesolows> ffs, please read what I'm typing
[02:30:34] <oninoshiko> consumer choice... it will never fly... people want to just be given something they can consume without thought
[02:30:35] <wesolows> or don't, I don't care
[02:30:48] <wesolows> oninoshiko: You can choose that.  That's the central value proposition here.
[02:31:23] <LeftWing> wesolows: Ripping out autotools build systems and inserting reproducible Makefiles?
[02:31:40] <wesolows> that, and providing an architecturally consistent set of binary packages that actually work
[02:31:50] <LeftWing> wesolows: That does have a certain solidity about it. =)
[02:31:51] <oninoshiko> wesolows: sorry, i sometimes forget my sarcasm doesn't carry well to the written word
[02:32:34] <nachox> if i understood correctly you want a small predefined and supported set of packages and a lot of other packages that might come compiled or not are unsupported and those that can be compiled come with sane and up to a point customizable makefiles
[02:33:04] <wesolows> 1. Base OS.  Usable, but only barely.  No frills.
[02:33:19] <wesolows> 2. Large package repository using our own makefiles that we've built.
[02:33:32] <Tempt> well
[02:33:41] <Tempt> That was the idea I had for a "distribution"
[02:33:42] <wesolows> 3. From that repo, choose either our binary packages, or your own customised build-from-source
[02:33:47] <Tempt> but when I suggested, I got flamed
[02:34:00] <Tempt> for not being in the spirit of the average desktop user who should have bought a mac
[02:34:05] <wesolows> They all come from the same stuff, so the work is fully leveraged.
[02:34:11] <wesolows> tempt++
[02:34:24] <Tempt> Christ.
[02:34:30] <Tempt> An operating system should deliver core functionality
[02:34:36] <Tempt> Not quibble around desktop issues.
[02:34:42] <richlowe> a system is a system.
[02:34:53] <richlowe> I would agree, but I can already see it being used as excuse to deliver unmitagated crap.
[02:34:54] <nachox> i dont like it a lot, but i can see why others might it would be appealing to have a distribution like that
[02:35:00] <richlowe> not that people don't have other excuses.
[02:35:04] <Tempt> We all use to complain about MS bundling IE
[02:35:07] <Tempt> and other "bloatware"
[02:35:14] <wesolows> richlowe: like JDS?
[02:35:19] <Tempt> now look at our own backyard - Solaris 10 was a full 2Gb bigger than Solaris 9
[02:35:19] * wesolows ducks
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[02:36:44] * oninoshiko just doesn't install all the crap
[02:37:01] <wesolows> I should note that such a system would allow different distributors to make different choices about what kind of things their customers want, and thus what they will support.
[02:37:17] <nachox> Tempt, blame gnome and staroffice :)
[02:37:28] <Tempt> perhaps replace the stupid core/developer/complete/complete+oem options
[02:37:31] <Tempt> with something that makes sense
[02:37:34] <wesolows> Without requiring them to reinvent the whell and making it easy for them to share with those who might want some of their choices in an unsupportedadd-on to a different distribution
[02:37:51] <Tempt> Operating System, Operating System with GNOME, Operating System with the fucking kitchen fucking sink.
[02:37:55] <Tempt> (+OEM)
[02:38:06] <nachox> wesolows, see? that would be an idea for a real indiana
[02:38:15] <richlowe> oh dear.
[02:38:18] <wesolows> Operating System, Operating System with GNOME, Operating System with all the useful add-ons but no GNOME, Operating System with all the stuff
[02:38:34] <wesolows> GNOME without the Operating System
[02:38:43] <wesolows> kgnome
[02:38:50] <nrubsig> anyone wants to sponsor a putback which kills more closed-source code ?
[02:38:53] <oninoshiko> is there one that just installs emacs and a boot loader?
[02:39:00] * nrubsig looks at jmcp
[02:39:06] <nrubsig> jmcp: ping!
[02:39:11] <Tempt> nrubsig: What are you trying to kill?
[02:39:13] <wesolows> oninoshiko: no, that's politically unviable these day: no "desktop environment"
[02:39:19] <nrubsig> Tempt: alias.sh
[02:39:28] <Tempt> where does that live?
[02:39:30] <richlowe> I still maintain that's more of a nightmare than it seems.
[02:39:39] <richlowe> Tempt: it's a ksh88 hack
[02:39:42] <richlowe> Tempt: well, 'hack'
[02:39:46] <wesolows> nachox: as usual, no one asks what I think, so they go off and do their own things that just make everyone angry
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[02:39:56] <richlowe> Tempt: 15 or so bits of userland are ksh scripts calling ksh builtins.
[02:40:02] <richlowe> Tempt: I'm assuming Roland wants to make them use the other ksh
[02:40:03] <Tempt> aah
[02:40:06] <wesolows> nachox: but it's ok; OpenSolaris means I could still do my thing if I wanted to
[02:40:13] <oninoshiko> wesolows: oh common im sure there is some version of emacs somewhere which qualifies as a desktop enviroment *rolls eyes*
[02:40:25] <Tempt> Yeah, that's worth the politics of getting it through
[02:40:35] <Tempt> I was going to do something about all those utils in the non-free tree
[02:40:40] <richlowe> Tempt: I doubt there's politics, just the standards test run.
[02:40:47] <richlowe> (for what Roland wants)
[02:40:48] <Tempt> sadly, I looked at the amount of work to get them back in and decided someone else might have a bit more time.
[02:40:57] <wesolows> there are no politics around ksh88 invocation replacement, just testing
[02:41:07] <nrubsig> richlowe: my point is that this would kill another closed-bin thing.
[02:41:10] <wesolows> everyone, or nearly so at least, wants to see closed code die
[02:41:15] <richlowe> nrubsig: Yeah, I'm not trying to discourage you.
[02:41:28] <nrubsig> wesolows: wanna sponsor the putback ?
[02:41:32] <richlowe> wesolows: only in theory.
[02:41:35] <wesolows> nrubsig: No.
[02:41:38] <nrubsig> ;-(
[02:41:39] <richlowe> wesolows: as long as they don't have to actually do anything about it.
[02:41:57] <wesolows> richlowe: Right, same as anything else.  But that's not politics, it's apathy.
[02:42:06] <richlowe> jmcp: you don't need a fasttrack if the interface didn't really change.
[02:42:16] <richlowe> jmcp: I do think jbk changed things, minorly, but I suspect they're all NAI (or should be)
[02:42:27] <wesolows> Yeah I wondered why you filed the case for libdisasm, but then I saw your comment in the mail trail
[02:42:50] <nrubsig> erm
[02:42:57] <nrubsig> richlowe: where do you see jmcp  ?
[02:43:04] <richlowe> nrubsig: I was avoiding poluting psarc-ext@ with it.
[02:43:21] <nrubsig> richlowe: ?!
[02:43:30] <nrubsig> richlowe: polluting it with ... what ?
[02:44:07] <richlowe> the useless (to the case) response I just typed in here...
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[02:45:46] <boyd> Tempt: Hey, you seem to be spending too much time in other OS's
[02:46:31] <oninoshiko> hahaha... you going to "reeducate" Tempt, boyd?
[02:46:38] <nachox> hehe
[02:46:52] <boyd> It's just that he seems to have forgotten how to spell Solaris
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[02:48:58] <oninoshiko> besides if you REALLY want only the minimal system, sun (atleast used to) make it... its called "OpenFirmware"
[02:49:29] <nachox> boyd, broken keyboard?
[02:49:41] <boyd> Maybe...
[02:49:46] <LuckyLuke> I would like to see an option for 'core system + naked chicken' at install time.
[02:50:08] <boyd> Personally I think sun should squat all the uses of Soalris, since it's *very* common as a misspelling
[02:50:14] <the-decider> whoah whoah...  must have wandered into the wrong #.
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[02:50:28] <LuckyLuke> and, oh, something like belenix (was that?) with tetris or worms on another virtualconsole during system install from cd to hd
[02:50:34] <boyd> the-decider: This is #chicken-pr0n
[02:50:54] <LuckyLuke> of course a screen session will do, since afaik we don't have virtual consoles (?)
[02:51:08] <oninoshiko> yes the-decider, you want #OpenSolarisNotZooaphillia
[02:51:15] <nrubsig> all visit #chicken-pr0n !
[02:51:16] <nrubsig> all visit #chicken-pr0n !
[02:51:18] <nrubsig> all visit #chicken-pr0n !
[02:51:30] <nrubsig> the lastest and greastest of #chicken-pr0n
[02:51:32] <boyd>  /kick nrubsig :P
[02:51:37] <nachox> nrubsig, you wanted a kickvote? i'm about to vote you :P
[02:51:38] * nrubsig hides
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[02:52:01] <nrubsig> nachox: Ok ?
[02:52:05] <boyd> Heh
[02:52:14] <nachox> :)
[02:52:15] * oninoshiko giggles
[02:52:31] <boyd> It's not a coincidence that Komodo dragons eat chickens, is it?
[02:52:42] <nrubsig> boyd: erm, no.
[02:52:48] * wesolows subscribes to the chickenterror newsletter
[02:52:51] <nrubsig> boyd: usually you feed rats etc.
[02:53:02] <nachox> lol
[02:53:26] <unixware> is any solaris chanel on russian language?
[02:55:38] <boyd> nrubsig: there's quite a description and photos of them eating chickens on the island of Komodo in http://www.amazon.com/Last-Chance-See-Douglas-Adams/dp/0345371984/
[02:56:21] <oninoshiko> i have that book... i wonder where it is
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[02:56:56] <unixware> everyone eat chiken
[02:57:28] * oninoshiko eats turky
[02:57:45] <unixware> :P
[02:58:30] <SYS64738> I would like to install my appz to /usr/local, what must I do the zone whit zonecfg ?
[03:03:11] <boyd> SYS64738: 1) You shouldn't be putting stuff in /usr/local on Solaris. 2) http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zones/faq/#cfg_io_usrlocal
[03:03:28] <flyingparchment> boyd: why shouldn't i install local programs into /usr/local?
[03:03:43] <boyd> Because /usr is the OS's
[03:03:56] <boyd>  /opt is where non-os apps should be going
[03:04:19] <SYS64738> the 90% of scripts of installed appz use /usr/local
[03:04:35] <SYS64738> bsd teach
[03:05:02] * boyd suggests use of the --prefix= option
[03:05:21] <boyd> (and the -R and -L linker switches)
[03:05:33] <SYS64738> why put stuff in opt ? once installed the app is part of os
[03:06:20] <wesolows> not true
[03:06:27] <boyd> That is one view of the world. It's not the view of most of the Soalris community
[03:06:34] <wesolows> the OS has a very specific isolated management model
[03:06:41] <wesolows> your apps are not managed by that model
[03:06:48] <wesolows> they are managed by you
[03:07:16] <wesolows> when you do an Upgrade, your apps are not (should not be) affected
[03:07:23] <boyd> SYS64738: read man filesystem and search for /usr/local
[03:07:26] <wesolows> and when you upgrade an app, the OS should not be affected
[03:07:38] <boyd> (Although the advice to use a symlink is considered flawed by some)
[03:07:39] <wesolows> the best way to accomplish this is to isolate your applications from the OS
[03:08:31] <boyd> Zones turn out to be quite a good example of why separation is a good thing
[03:09:52] <the-decider> keeping "apps" out of the os is generally a good thing.
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[03:10:45] <nachox> that is why all of gnome is in /usr/bin :)
[03:11:08] <the-decider> however, also having an overarching management model (e.g. cfengine, etc) where any change made to a machine is actually "done" by something other than a human is also good.  So when you *do* make changes and install things in nasty places they're repeatable and recorded.
[03:13:45] <boyd> Wow.. what a shock... a /. headline that misrepresents the article
[03:13:46] <the-decider> nachox: heh, I've given up on that.  I've got the old school mentality that all this "desktop environment" stuff isn't "os".
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[03:15:33] <nachox> /usr/gnome/bin or just something in /opt
[03:15:46] <wesolows>  /opt is only for stuff outside the WOS
[03:16:01] <wesolows> (of course, if you're saying GNOME doesn't belong in the WOS, that's ok too)
[03:16:38] * the-decider thought /usr/openwin was enough.  You got a nice terminal window where you could build and install your favorite window manager.  What more did you need? ;)
[03:17:01] <wesolows> the-decider: um, xdm + F1 + xterm should be enough
[03:17:32] <the-decider> yeah, your right.  People are too spoiled with having a basic window manager :)
[03:17:49] <boyd> You're all soft! A serial terminal should be enough. A *hardcopy* serial terminal
[03:17:55] <the-decider> They should have to write a basic one in ksh93 in order to really get started. :P
[03:17:58] <nachox> the window manager should be a place where you can open lots and lots of terminals and a web browser, that's it
[03:18:37] <wesolows> boyd: sure, if the X libraries are there
[03:18:54] <boyd> pffft. X! It'll never catch on!
[03:18:59] <the-decider> web browser?  That's something you're supposed to compile yourself -- hopefully after you've figured out how to turn twm.
[03:19:12] <wesolows> nachox: I'd send you a screen shot, but it would be way too large.  Suffice it to say you've described my operation to a T.
[03:19:23] <nachox> hehehe
[03:19:55] <wesolows> 14 rxvts, 1 firefox, 4 bugster windows
[03:20:39] <nachox> add an evolution to that and remove the bugsters and you've got my desktop
[03:21:31] <wesolows> evolution?!
[03:21:35] <wesolows> mutt++ baby
[03:21:47] <the-decider> what about 'elm'?
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[03:22:11] <nachox> i used to use mutt but i switched to evolution a week ago because my workplace standarized on it
[03:22:30] <wesolows> haha Sun has standardised on a bunch of things that aren't mutt
[03:22:43] <wesolows> I don't even know which is the latest one
[03:22:53] <wesolows> but it doesn't matter; I use mutt anyway
[03:23:11] <brendang> I worked with a sysadmin who set his default editor to "ed". He honestly prefered it, as he had been using it since the 70's.
[03:23:23] <nachox> actually i avoided the standard for well over a year, i finally gave up because every time i missed a mail my boss blamed mutt
[03:23:51] <wesolows> brendang: ed is the standard text editor
[03:24:10] <brendang> he either had pine or mutt as the interface, and would answer email using ed. he was pretty fast with ed, too.
[03:24:35] <brendang> wesolows: it is.. ed(1): "The ed utility is the  standard  text  editor. "
[03:25:06] <wesolows> yep
[03:25:14] <nachox> luckily 20 years happened and now people happily use vim
[03:25:21] <wesolows> I'm referring to some well-known humourous document I remember reading though
[03:25:29] <wesolows> a rant, really, iirc
[03:25:57] <brendang> wesolows: a rant about editors?!? how strange..
[03:26:32] <wesolows> I know, insane!
[03:26:42] <nachox> emacs rules!.. err.. i mean :)
[03:26:48] <dlg> real programmers use copy con > program.exe
[03:27:10] <wesolows> but real programmers don't use Microsoft operating systems; how do you reconcile this?
[03:27:15] <nachox> real programmers dont get real jobs then
[03:27:33] * dlg grin
[03:27:37] * wesolows wonders when they'll realise they've been paying him in error for the past 3 years
[03:27:54] <wesolows> and move me to the basement
[03:28:13] <nachox> wesolows, you mean the dont pay you to show them how much life sucks?
[03:28:36] <wesolows> I don't know what they pay me for, but it's not to use Microsoft stuff, that's for sure.
[03:28:45] <wesolows> They'd have to pay a LOT more for that.
[03:28:56] <nachox> excellent, that is a motivated worker
[03:29:21] <brendang> wesolows: we don't have a basement. ok, we do, but I don't think we'd be allowed to work in there with the rats.
[03:29:37] <brendang> ... we'd need something to get rid of the rats. if only...
[03:29:40] <wesolows> no, I mean, I've proven that I'll do this sort of work for free, and they could really pay just enough for rent and booze and that would be enough. :-)
[03:30:05] <wesolows> brendang: down there, rats are probably eaten by the other things
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[03:30:44] <nachox> komodo dragons?
[03:31:03] <wesolows> ding!
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[03:31:43] <SYS64738> good night
[03:32:50] <jafari> good night
[03:33:02] <unixware> good night
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[03:36:49] <DoYouKnow> hi guys
[03:36:57] <DoYouKnow> where can I get broadcom 4318 drivers for solaris?
[03:37:28] <DoYouKnow> I am thinking that the problem right now is that the acer drivers are giving me a syntax error
[03:37:37] <DoYouKnow> the inf
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[03:37:56] <DoYouKnow> using ndiswrapper of course
[03:38:13] <DoYouKnow> when I run ndiscvt on it
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[03:42:47] <DoYouKnow> I need the 64-bit ones
[03:57:06] <DoYouKnow> ok, I downloaded the file
[03:57:15] <DoYouKnow> but there are lots of ^M at the end of each line
[03:57:18] <DoYouKnow> how do I remove them?
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[03:59:52] <nachox> sed
[04:00:21] <nrubsig> Mhhh, the new bin laden speech is weired.
[04:00:33] <nrubsig> where did they get the nukes to threaten the US ?
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[04:01:27] <oninoshiko> ok can we all say "WMD != nuke"
[04:01:38] <nrubsig> sure
[04:01:54] <nrubsig> and the US only has a ministriy of love
[04:02:00] <nachox> sed 's/.$//' file
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[04:03:10] <oninoshiko> actually nukes aren't even the most destructive of WMDs
[04:05:07] <nachox> nrubsig, ?
[04:06:23] <nrubsig> nachox: Bin Laaden: "In 60 minutes one US terrortory will burst in nuclear flames"
[04:06:49] * nrubsig wonders whether nachox will swallow that goat
[04:06:50] <nachox> nrubsig, let me guess, that happened more than 60 min ago
[04:06:58] <nrubsig> erm
[04:07:11] <nachox> nrubsig, i'm half a planet away form the us
[04:07:14] <nrubsig> is it "goat", "trap" or "bait" ?
[04:08:12] <oninoshiko> o.0?
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[04:11:13] <nachox> bah, the message is still 3 days away, you scared them nrubsig
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[04:19:13] <DoYouKnow> hmm... my broadcom driver isn't working
[04:19:19] <DoYouKnow> I downloaded the one from Microsoft
[04:19:35] <DoYouKnow> mentioned on the opensolaris site as supporting 4318
[04:20:11] <DoYouKnow> doh
[04:20:14] <DoYouKnow> I downloaded the wrong driver
[04:20:15] <DoYouKnow> lol
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[04:54:45] <thalin> So I'm trying to install Solaris Express Developer Edition off of DVD media, and it's telling me...it can only be installed from DVD media.
[04:54:54] <thalin> which seems odd to me.
[04:54:59] <thalin> since..it's on dvd
[04:55:10] <flyingparchment> you're using DVD media.  you need to use DVD media instead.
[04:55:50] <thalin> Oh so that's the problem.
[04:55:52] <thalin> :)
[04:56:08] <flyingparchment> try using the installer that isn't the new SX one
[04:56:17] <flyingparchment> (assuming this is b70+)
[04:56:20] <thalin> it's 71
[04:56:36] <flyingparchment> you should be able to select the non-default option at grub, then choose 'solaris interactive (text)' or so
[04:56:52] <thalin> Ok I'll give it a shot.
[05:00:13] <CIA-26> ek110237: 6599944 a couple of places in libc include vnode.h when they don't need to, 6600111 some #include cleanup is needed, 6600112 <sys/vnode.h> should be #ifdef _KERNEL'd out of <sys/stream.h>, 6600127 'list' should be renamed to something more specific, 6600136 rdimpl.c doesn't need to #include <sys/swap.h>
[05:02:30] <nachox> dtrace was available in 2002?
[05:05:36] <thalin> flyingparchment: just for the sake of it I tried b70 on dvd and it magically worked.
[05:15:57] <jbk> evening
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[05:19:22] <kaiwai> hmm, 'console installer'
[05:19:31] <kaiwai> there are two, you need to choose option 4
[05:19:56] <nachox> kaiwai, i was expecting a mail for you like alan's eventually :P
[05:20:33] <kaiwai> lol
[05:20:41] <kaiwai> why is that?
[05:20:42] <kaiwai> :P
[05:21:02] <nachox> because it is the kind of mail i would have writen ages ago it i were a sun employee
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[05:23:01] <kaiwai> I received one
[05:23:27] <kaiwai> he seems to fail to realise that management is the voice piece for the company, they establish the relationships; does he honestly think that a programmer will be taken seriosuly by another company?
[05:23:42] <kaiwai> christ, that has as much plausibility as me trying to get specifications from Microsoft
[05:25:53] <nachox> err, no, the problem he is pointing out it that sun lacks resources they have to do more productive things with the money, like getting more paying customers or switch from SUNW to JAVA
[05:29:07] <kaiwai> or the lack of leadership by management
[05:30:09] <flyingparchment> did they really change the stock symbol to JAVA?
[05:30:15] <nachox> yes
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[05:31:55] <kaiwai> yeap, thats really going to solve things *rolls eyes*
[05:32:20] <kaiwai> heck, why not put a pink pony on all servers shipped to aim for the cutesie wootsie girly market
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[05:36:36] <jbk> hello
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[05:38:19] <kaiwai> hi
[05:38:32] <kaiwai> grrrr
[05:38:35] <kaiwai> POS sun servers
[05:39:03] <jbk> having problems?
[05:39:42] <kaiwai> damn thing stopping with 'error'
[05:39:55] <kaiwai> shit slow downloading - 20KB/s
[05:39:56] <jbk> the box itself or some app?
[05:40:05] <jbk> oh download?
[05:40:15] <kaiwai> yes
[05:40:27] <kaiwai> and it doesn't give me a good impression on how a sun server copes under pressure either
[05:41:03] <jbk> how do you know it's not their network? :)
[05:41:19] <kaiwai> bugger that, i'll wait till B75
[05:41:34] <kaiwai> jbk: because others have the same problem
[05:41:49] <kaiwai> jbk: and because Sun is too stupid not to install a local NZ/Aussie mirror
[05:42:01] <flyingparchment> they're probably not even sun servers, they use akamai
[05:42:31] <kaiwai> but all the serves are located in the US
[05:42:38] <flyingparchment> no they aren't
[05:43:27] <kaiwai> well there isn't one locaetd in Aussie/NZ thats for bloody sure
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[05:44:34] <kaiwai> I hope they fix up that Freetype bug
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[05:44:54] <Tempt> heh
[05:45:07] <Tempt> Normally one can stream over 4Mbytes/sec from Sun's download sites
[05:45:07] <Gman> kaiwai, some of that will change
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[05:45:26] <Tempt> kaiwai: Perhaps you should see a torrent?
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[05:45:28] <Tempt> seed*
[05:45:30] * flyingparchment has seen 30MB/s from sdlc - generally with more popular stuff like S10 though
[05:45:36] <Gman> especially if indiana gets to a stage of having a redistributable binary iso
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[05:47:10] <jbk> Gman: i think that's one of three things i personally view as _really_ key to wider opensolaris adopotion
[05:47:20] * Gman also
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[05:47:32] <Gman> along with mirrored network repos
[05:48:01] <jbk> i would think that would naturally flow from having the first in place
[05:48:52] <Gman> you'd hope :)
[05:49:08] <kaiwai> Gman: you in NZ?
[05:49:13] <Gman> yep
[05:49:19] <kaiwai> Tempt: there are no torrrents :(
[05:49:24] <kaiwai> Gman: you use xtra internet?
[05:49:36] <Gman> yep
[05:49:48] <kaiwai> hmm, wondering whether the crap speed was just me or the ISP
[05:50:10] <Gman> heh, always the isp :)
[05:50:19] <Gman> you could complain and it'll fall on deaf ears
[05:50:44] <Tempt> kaiwai: *seed* a torrent
[05:50:47] <Tempt> kaiwai: Make a torrent
[05:51:00] <flyingparchment> Tempt: omg piracy :(
[05:51:10] <Tempt> omg pirating opensolaris
[05:51:11] <Tempt> oh noes
[05:51:33] <kaiwai> Gman: yeah, their stupid 'traffic shaping' software - I'll bloody shape them if they shape my traffic *evil smile* :P
[05:51:54] <Tempt> Why is it so many people complain about no torrents but never put a torrent up?
[05:52:40] <Gman> because it's currently non-legal?
[05:52:55] <boyd> That doesn't stop 99.999999% of other torrents :)
[05:53:02] <Gman> heh, true
[05:53:05] <flyingparchment> there are torrents of belenix actually
[05:53:22] <kaiwai> geeze "don't insult my precious sun, waaaaaa waaaaaa" dear god, drama queens abound
[05:54:04] <kaiwai> almost as bad as apple users
[05:54:16] <kaiwai> I'd use a torrent but there are no torrents available for B71
[05:54:18] <flyingparchment> but fortunately, not as bad as you
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[05:54:54] <Tempt> For once I agree with kaiwai
[05:54:59] <Tempt> Don't be so fscking precious about it
[05:55:02] <boyd> kaiwai: Can you tell me why you want torrents?
[05:55:04] <Tempt> Stick a torrent up and enjoy.
[05:55:15] <sfire||mouse> is there a way to chroot users to their home dir with the ftp server in solaris, or where is the config for the ftp server
[05:55:26] <kaiwai> boyd: because downloading off the sun servers is shit slow
[05:55:36] <kaiwai> Tempt: assuming I had a B71 to upload
[05:55:48] <Tempt> sfire||mouse: Get pure-ftpd
[05:55:49] <jbk> add '/./' to the end of their home directory i believe
[05:55:52] <kaiwai> if I had B71, why would I be asking for a place to download it from
[05:55:53] <Tempt> sfire||mouse: It is a fine solution.
[05:55:58] <Gman> huh, sch would be the last person i'd expect to see in facebook
[05:56:04] <e^ipi> fast as hell for me, but i'm in north america
[05:56:14] <Tempt> kaiwai: because when you HAVE downloaded it you should SHARE it with other people who are waiting around
[05:56:25] <boyd> Gman:  There's a lot of people there I didn't expect to see
[05:56:26] <sfire||mouse> Tempt: if I go third party, I'll go vsftp just because thats what we have on the linux boxes
[05:56:35] <sfire||mouse> Tempt: but thanks for the suggestion
[05:56:45] <kaiwai> Tempt: by the time I download it, B75 would be out
[05:57:02] <boyd> ... and we'll still be hearing about it.
[05:57:29] <kaiwai> boyd: depends on what I do to xtra
[05:58:10] <Tempt> kaiwai: I see you're getting a good slapping around in osol-discuss
[06:00:20] <kaiwai> Tempt: people rushing to defence of Sun like devotees to mecca
[06:00:40] <kaiwai> its like watching a Apple discussion list in full flight
[06:01:27] <boyd> You're right, the only reason that many people would disagree with someone is because they are all wrong.
[06:01:51] <kaiwai> no, I never said that, most emotionally charged replies because of some 'hurt' felt is a pathetic way of debating
[06:02:02] <kaiwai> *mostly
[06:02:26] <flyingparchment> Tempt: in the case of -discuss, that isn't so unlikely
[06:02:35] <flyingparchment> er, s/Tempt/boyd/
[06:02:45] <boyd> flyingparchment: :)
[06:02:53] <richlowe> with -discuss, it's more likely that there's more than two sides, and all of them are wrong.
[06:03:26] <boyd> ... like an irregular polyhedron of wrongitude
[06:03:49] <kaiwai> richlowe: sure, I can be a complete prick some times (ok most of the time) but occasionally there is a smiggin of validity in what I occasionally say
[06:03:52] <richlowe> boyd: that statement is crying out for an illustration.
[06:04:28] <Tempt> kaiwai: Yes, you did have a statement I vaguely agreed with today.
[06:04:48] <Tempt> There's a first time for everything
[06:05:21] <kaiwai> if management doesn't resources and create relationships with other companies - then what the fuck do they do?
[06:05:27] <kaiwai> *manage resources
[06:06:31] <Tempt> They make your life miserable, because Sun now has a special team assigned to picking on you.
[06:06:38] <Tempt> They deliberately make pcfs different to your dreams
[06:06:47] <Gman> dick around on facebook :)
[06:07:00] <richlowe> Gman: you're marketing though.
[06:07:06] <boyd> Network in Second Life
[06:07:13] <richlowe> so that's like, networking, or some other such bullshit job marketing people pretend to do.
[06:07:16] <richlowe> I mean, uh.
[06:07:18] <richlowe> "productive"
[06:07:21] <flyingparchment> what is facebook anyway?  someone sent me an invite to it..
[06:07:26] * boyd must be getting old... he so doesn't *get* facebook
[06:07:40] <nachox> i dont even know what it is
[06:07:45] <kaiwai> neither do I; I have one but thats because friends want me to have one
[06:07:52] <kaiwai> its the myspace competitor
[06:08:03] <kaiwai> for emo's to whine about their middle class existance and post photos of themselves
[06:08:14] <jmcp> boyd: neither do I, but it's strangely addictive
[06:08:21] <Tempt> boyd: It's like LinkedIn, except instead of getting jobs and contracts you get sex and orgies and shit
[06:08:28] <Tempt> boyd: It's like myspace, but for the over-18 market
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[06:09:00] <Tempt> lolz.
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[06:09:12] <Tempt> Geez, that was quick
[06:09:23] <Tempt> You'll need to build up your stamina a little before going for the orgy run
[06:09:29] <boyd> Quick!? I had to fill in time!
[06:10:11] <Gman> boyd, you will once you start playing scrabble :)
[06:10:16] * Gman is quite addicted
[06:10:46] <Tempt> hmm
[06:10:53] <Tempt> is there a decent online scrabble?
[06:10:59] <boyd> I must say I found "Cities I've visited" contests to be quite addictive
[06:11:09] <boyd> But I;m just about out of places
[06:11:16] <Tempt> Oh, the travel DSW.
[06:12:31] <boyd> DSW?
[06:12:40] <boyd> I assume you don't mean this one: http://linuxgazette.net/issue49/fischer.html
[06:13:02] <boyd> (Now *there*'s a user interface to aspire to
[06:14:29] <jmcp> heh
[06:17:08] <Gman> Tempt, i've been using scrabulous a lot
[06:17:17] <movement> http://blogs.netapp.com/dave/2007/09/litigoperation-.html
[06:18:45] <jmcp> sigh
[06:24:33] <jbk> it's interesting, but still i don't think proves anything one way or the other
[06:25:35] <nachox> at least it probes the netapp claim is not new to sun
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[06:35:44] <Tempt> proves
[06:35:47] <Tempt> since when do blogs prove anything?
[06:36:46] <bda> Fired into the sun for using the 'word' "coopetition".
[06:37:07] <boyd> They prove that there are a lot of things people are willing to type that nobody wants to read.
[06:37:32] <Tempt> That's the ticket
[06:37:44] <Tempt> It also proves that a lot of people are willing to read a lot of tripe that is barely worth reading
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[06:38:12] <pauliukas> Heya guys.
[06:38:18] <pauliukas> Anyone alive in here?
[06:38:31] <pauliukas> Got a quick question about the general security of Solaris.
[06:38:56] <pauliukas> Would it be generally safe to give someone shell login as a limited user under solaris?
[06:39:11] <pauliukas> I mean, I wouldn't do it in Linux. People know of ways to escalate privileges.
[06:39:32] <jmcp> pauliukas: you should read up on "Least Privilege"
[06:39:42] <pauliukas> I should?
[06:39:43] <jmcp> you can assign minimal privileges to $user
[06:39:45] <jmcp> yeah
[06:39:48] <jamesd> give them root in a zone if you trust them...  use your firewall to block all out going packets besides   scp....
[06:39:49] <pauliukas> Ah.
[06:39:54] <jmcp> heck, you can make root a role.... and then restrict it!
[06:40:01] <pauliukas> hahah. neat.
[06:40:14] <pauliukas> Well, I'm thinking of this setup in a shared hosting environment.
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[06:40:25] <pauliukas> Where giving shell to people so that they could cp or rename stuff...
[06:40:32] <jbk> heh.. speaking of security, i have the displeasure of trying to configure the linux audit system
[06:40:48] <flyingparchment> jbk: stop while you still can
[06:40:49] <Tempt> Don't get anyone a shell account unless you trust them
[06:40:52] <jbk> the documentation seems to consist of 2 manpages + a readme
[06:40:52] <Tempt> easy choice.
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[06:41:06] <jbk> flyingparchment: unfortunately, the alternatives are even more ugly
[06:41:19] <pauliukas> Tempt: That's what I've been trying to do this whole time...
[06:41:56] <boyd> jbk: Did you consider the extensive docs as docs.sun.com?
[06:42:07] <flyingparchment> boyd: docs.sun.com has documentation on linux auditing?
[06:42:15] <jbk> this development group is trying to force me into rewriting sudosh so that it will collect all keystrokes on a centralized log server, just because they refuse to actually divulge which commands they need access to for a process account
[06:42:40] <boyd> D'oh! Sorry I missed "linux"... take that as a snide jab at linux documentation, then :)
[06:42:45] <jbk> i wish they did, sun's docs are actually useful (if sometimes not always organized well)
[06:43:10] <Tempt> just say no to linux
[06:43:19] <jbk> i mean granted, the admin interface for solaris's audit system seems ot have been designed in the 80s, but at least it's well documented
[06:43:22] <Tempt> shoot a penguin today.
[06:43:23] <jbk> Tempt: i wish i could
[06:43:24] <jmcp> jbk: I'd be telling that dev group to get stuffed
[06:43:41] <jbk> sadly i can't
[06:44:03] <boyd> They should have to explicitly specify what commands they need and why they need elevated privs for wach one of them, IMHO
[06:44:13] <boyd> s/wach/each
[06:44:37] <jbk> boyd: i agree, however they claim they cannot (which to me says more about the readyness of their application than anything)
[06:44:45] <flyingparchment> jbk: linux auditing also lacks any kind of useful reporting mechanism once you're worked out how to record the data.  it's really very fun.
[06:45:12] <jbk> they are fixated on using sudosh to record all keystrokes for the process account as a solution
[06:45:22] <flyingparchment> oh, and if you run auditing on a box with a serial console, and stop the audit daemon, the entire system will freeze while it writes audit logs to the console (and dmesg, for any user to read!) at 9600 bps..
[06:45:43] <jbk> these have hp ilo cards
[06:46:05] <flyingparchment> it happens with LOM fake serial too
[06:46:26] <jbk> it's a fake graphical console
[06:46:31] <flyingparchment> ick
[06:46:44] <flyingparchment> well, the bit where any local user can read all your audit logs is still fun :)
[06:47:07] <jbk> well they don't have access to the ilo cards
[06:47:15] <flyingparchment> but they have access to dmesg
[06:48:01] <jbk> well for what would be audited, i don't know if that's really a big deal -- there just needs to be a record of what was done that the people doing the changes can't alter
[06:49:27] <sfire||mouse> meh, okay, I've compiled my own ftp daemon, vsftpd.  What ways can I get it to start at boot, and maybe even allow me to start and stop it.
[06:49:47] <jbk> sfire||mouse: smf
[06:50:09] <sfire||mouse> jbk: should I google for how to make an smf config?
[06:50:34] <jbk> try 'creating an smf manifest' -- it's basically an xml file
[06:50:46] <boyd> sfire||mouse: google for sdev_intro.html as a staring point
[06:50:48] <jbk> you can see the existing ones under /var/svc/manifest i believe
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[06:53:41] <sfire||mouse> thanks
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[07:06:26] <flyingparchment> hmm, what might cause 400,000 cs in vmstat? (mysql/zfs)
[07:06:47] <pauliukas> ouch...
[07:06:51] <pauliukas> transactions?
[07:08:12] <flyingparchment> (http://rafb.net/p/QcFtuy97.h)
[07:10:04] <nrubsig> flyingparchment: did you see the new /topic yet
[07:10:05] <nrubsig> ?
[07:10:14] <flyingparchment> what about it?
[07:10:31] <nrubsig> opensolaris.pastebin.ca
[07:10:42] <flyingparchment> why does it matter if i use rafb?
[07:10:49] <nrubsig> grumpf
[07:11:07] <flyingparchment> oh, i see the problem.. broken program on another system was syn flooding mysql :)
[07:11:16] <jamesd> flyingparchment, you have many  tasks that are waiting for data, and are switched off kernel.
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[07:14:02] <Bartman007> jamesd: so the obvious solution is to build mysql into the kernel ;-)
[07:14:18] <dlg> good idea
[07:14:38] <nrubsig>  /kernel/exec/ksh
[07:14:45] <jamesd> Bartman007, of course...  but we have to add the functionality of  ksh93 into a kernel module as well don't we  nrubsig
[07:14:56] <nrubsig> sure
[07:14:57] <jamesd> ;-)
[07:15:00] <WickedWi1ky> hey all
[07:15:11] <nrubsig> jamesd: and then start to write ZFS in ksh
[07:15:23] <jamesd> absolutely
[07:15:37] <Bartman007> nrubsig: and it has to use SQL tables.
[07:15:49] <rootard> Yeah, why bother having independant binaries at all...
[07:16:11] <Bartman007> rootard: think of the memory savings!
[07:17:00] <rootard> Yeah, just don't fork.
[07:17:15] <rootard> ever
[07:17:50] <nrubsig> Bartman007: well, suddenly all kernel output would look like this: http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/raw/683236
[07:18:01] <nrubsig> imagine it: structured data!
[07:18:44] <Bartman007> nrubsig: you should use python then, force the structuring.
[07:19:30] <nrubsig> Bartman007: I already have ksh93, that's structured enougth for small/medium things.
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[07:19:52] * nrubsig hits Bartman007 with http://www.nrubsig.org/ksh93_ray_test20070904_c001.jpg
[07:20:13] * steleman hickups at the thought of Python
[07:20:30] <jamesd> nrubsig, looks sweet.
[07:20:37] <nrubsig> steleman: Python isn't bad...
[07:20:42] <nrubsig> just different
[07:20:50] * steleman barfs
[07:21:01] <Bartman007> nrubsig: can I see the source for that?
[07:21:07] <Bartman007> quite impressive.
[07:21:10] <nrubsig> jamesd: the fun part is that the aliasing needs almost as much time as the tracing...
[07:21:20] <Auralis> nrubsig: how fast is that tracer anyway?
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[07:22:32] <nrubsig> Auralis: around 30 times slower than the native C version
[07:22:45] <Bartman007> Auralis: it takes 7.5 million years on Deep Thought.
[07:22:53] <Auralis> not to bad
[07:23:02] <steleman> nrubsig: think positive: the code is positioned for optimizations. :-)
[07:23:13] <Bartman007> when you cross your eyes you should see "42" in 3d.
[07:23:26] <nrubsig> Bartman007: feel free to sponsor http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/request-sponsor/2007-August/002740.html and you get the source in /usr/demo/ksh/fun/raytrace1
[07:26:53] <Tempt> just ...
[07:26:56] <Tempt> give up
[07:27:02] <Tempt> you can't solve the world's problems with ksh93
[07:27:12] <Tempt> nor it ksh93 the "new java"
[07:27:15] <WickedWi1ky> you can with beer!
[07:27:22] <Tempt> Yes, with beer all can be solved.
[07:27:36] <flyingparchment> okay, something is sucking here and i'm not sure what.  dumping a mysql database from a remote host at ~6MB/sec onto a QFS filesystem is causing ~50% cpu load
[07:27:39] <Bartman007> Tempt: `dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/bush/george/w'
[07:28:01] <Tempt> blame mysql
[07:28:13] <WickedWi1ky> flyingparchment: I/O wait?
[07:28:29] <flyingparchment> WickedWi1ky: no, still seeing the very high in/cs
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[07:30:43] <flyingparchment> it seems normal for a while, then it goes high for a couple of seconds, and back
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[08:03:53] <WickedWi1ky> ok, off to the bus station
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[08:04:07] <WickedWi1ky> FRIDAY! for those who I dont see later on, enjoy your weekend
[08:08:35] <jmcp> cheers
[08:08:40] <jmcp> I've got a concall in 2 hours
[08:08:43] <jmcp> great way to end my friday
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[08:10:07] <jamesd> jmcp, press the speakerphone button... read  blogs.sun.com and count the seconds till the long winded speaker will ramble on before you can go home and get a ginness...
[08:10:24] <jmcp> problem is that I'm on the hook for this one
[08:10:45] <jmcp> and I wfh as well so I figure it'll be very noticeable if I start chugging back a beverage
[08:10:46] <jmcp> :(
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[08:11:05] <e^ipi> wfh?
[08:11:18] *** JSRJ has quit IRC
[08:11:19] <jmcp> work from home
[08:12:23] <g4lt-mordant> jmcp, why?  WFHing and cold beverages are _de rigeur_
[08:12:26] <jamesd> i would tell you about my plans for tomorow, but i allready have my son pissed at me for rubbing it in....
[08:13:06] <jmcp> g4lt-mordant: normally, yes. however this particular concall requires that I be really on my game
[08:18:19] <e^ipi> and what a better way to loosen you up & make you more sociable than a couple dozen beers
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[08:19:34] <jamesd> e^ipi, the others on the call will be jellous that they didn't get any...
[08:19:34] <jmcp> sigh
[08:20:48] <e^ipi> I booked my hotel room for OSDS today
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[08:38:03] <WickedWi1ky> concalls suck
[08:40:31] <WickedWi1ky> cool, so.. smb doesnt allow ! in my password
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[09:06:55] <e^ipi> Tempt: poke?
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[09:33:29] <trochej> Coffeee.........
[09:38:28] <trede> is a bad drug !
[09:39:06] <trede> but a project saver too =)
[09:39:57] <trochej> :)
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[09:42:18] <trede> before i toast my xp install in favor of sxce71 is there any known critical problems with that build ?.
[09:42:35] <trede> i could not get 71 to install in vmware. so i could not test myself.
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[09:43:44] <trede> is there any status page for each build ? listing know problems etc ?
[09:44:20] <tomww> there is a page with 'heads-up'
[09:44:42] <tomww> trede:  what error is shown?
[09:44:48] <trede> yes. i read it. but that is only what features is incorporated for that build right ?
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[09:44:55] <tomww> right
[09:45:11] <trede> timmw: no error at all.  just at "starting java" nothing happens.
[09:45:31] <trede> timmw: build69 i did get working in vmware though.
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[09:47:05] <flyingparchment> ah, finally the encryption kit went away
[09:47:22] <jmcp> trede: closest thing I can think of to answer your question is http://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/current/on-changelog-20070903.html
[09:47:37] <trede> jmcp: alright. thanks alot.
[09:48:32] <tsoome> someone should teach intel to create cool cpu:( its just ridiculous how hot on damn computer can get:(
[09:48:53] <trede> jmcp: changelog. so there is no quality/status reports whatsoever for each build ?.  i mean some kind of automated tests is done in addition for code compiliation ?.
[09:50:00] <trede> jmcp: well i suppose searching in forums and the irc log can give hints of problems then =).
[09:50:22] <jmcp> trede: I don't think those reports are made public
[09:50:37] <trede> jmcp: but somewhere there must be feedback collected from each build.
[09:50:42] <trede> jmcp: ah oki.
[09:51:29] <trede> jmcp: thanks for your time trying to help.
[09:52:13] <jmcp> nowurries
[09:52:17] <jmcp> wish I could be more helpful
[09:52:31] <tomww> trede i have 71 in a vmware running
[09:52:48] <palowoda> vm server or workstation?
[09:52:52] <trede> tommw: ah. what version of which vmware ?.
[09:53:07] <trede> tommw: and any non default settings ?.
[09:55:20] <tomww> I have to ask the admins of this vmware machiine
[09:55:52] <tomww> I took the IDE disk, preallocated and the solaris non 64Lbit setting
[09:56:17] <palowoda> Hmm no 64bit vmware yet?
[09:57:08] <palowoda> Seems like a waste of some good cpu resources.
[09:57:24] <trede> palowada: i had 69 build running in 64bit vmware in winXP64bit.
[09:57:37] <trede> tomww: ok thanks alot.
[09:58:20] <palowoda> trede: Wast that vmware server or workstation?
[09:58:23] * jmcp concalls
[09:58:33] <trede> polowoda: workstation.
[09:58:41] <palowoda> ok.
[09:58:46] <tomww> the client runs in 64bit as nv71 altough vmware is set to the non 64bit preset
[09:58:48] <tsoome> wtf, there is a no way to specify file systems with new installer?!
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[09:59:09] <palowoda> That is the advantage of the new installer.
[09:59:19] <tsoome> ?!
[09:59:28] <palowoda> Use the old text installer for partition creation.
[09:59:37] <tsoome> how can missing functionality be an advantage?
[09:59:47] <flyingparchment> tsoome: the new installer isn't complete
[09:59:51] <palowoda> Hey I didn't make up the rules
[09:59:56] <flyingparchment> tsoome: i understand they'll be putting back the missing features over time
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[10:01:10] <trede> is there still come cons about booting on zfs ?. does it still give any negative side effects ?
[10:01:38] <palowoda> swap on zfs maybe slower.
[10:02:10] <palowoda> than agian everybody has 4G of memory in their machines.
[10:02:17] <trede> oki. but the "fast" upgrade path works for zfs boot now ?.
[10:02:39] <palowoda> You mean live upgrade?
[10:02:42] <trede> yes.
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[10:02:47] <palowoda> I don't think so.
[10:02:54] <trede> kk.
[10:03:24] <palowoda> I think that was documented on the webpages for zfs root.
[10:04:01] <trede> palowoda: ok. thanks for the help. i will read up some on it.
[10:08:17] <palowoda> here quick url: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs/boot/
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[10:09:27] <tomww> trede: vmware server 1.0.3 build 44356
[10:09:52] <tomww> 768MB ram is setz for the install
[10:10:46] <palowoda> So I guessing that it's only the VMware workstation that is capable of running 64bit versions of OpenSolaris?
[10:10:58] <renihs> server is able too
[10:11:00] <renihs> depends on your cpu
[10:11:24] <trede> tommw: ah ok. thanks alot man .
[10:11:27] <palowoda> Well yeah I have a 64bit cpu no problem. Just wondering if the same rules apply.
[10:11:40] <renihs> not every 64bit cpu cn host 64bit
[10:11:49] <renihs> check the vmware site which cpus do :p
[10:11:52] <renihs> cn/can
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[10:12:56] <palowoda> Hmm seems rather strange that a CoreDuo 64, Opteron or Athlon64 would be different.  But than again it is VMware.
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[10:14:36] <palowoda> But I guess that is what makes VMWare fun, the restrictions.
[10:15:16] <renihs> vmware isnt the reason
[10:15:18] <renihs> but bla :p
[10:15:38] <tomww> palowoda: I run vmware on 328it linux with 648=2 guest! guest config says sol1m (not sol10 64bit) but client still runs in 64bit. amd cpu
[10:15:45] <tsoome> oh nice. meta cluster is wrong and it cant do the upgrade
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[10:16:48] <tsoome> whatever that wrong meta cluster will mean....
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[10:18:09] <palowoda> tsoome: That is with the new Dwarf installer.  Use the "Solaris Express" and Text mode and it will upgrade.
[10:18:22] <_judas_> herro
[10:18:36] <tsoome> ying that out as soon as reboot will do:D
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[10:31:51] <tsoome> hm so the samba in b71 should support kerb and ads now?
[10:32:51] <palowoda> Somebody just blogged on blogs.sun.com how to do ads yesterday or the day before.  Not sure on kerb.
[10:33:12] <tsoome> well u cant have ads without kerberos:D
[10:33:37] <palowoda> http://blogs.sun.com/jurasek/entry/ads_domain_member_server1
[10:33:57] <tsoome> kerberos is sort of fully integrated into windows...
[10:34:10] <palowoda> By default?
[10:34:42] <tsoome> yea, if you are connected to ads, its on and rocking
[10:35:02] <palowoda> MIT kerberos compatible?
[10:35:08] <tsoome> afaik yes
[10:35:33] <palowoda> Hmm didn't know they did that.  I thought they had a compatibility bit.
[10:35:44] <tsoome> there are some docs around how to connect to it
[10:35:58] <tsoome> it has been available some years now
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[10:39:30] <palowoda> The blog url does mention ads and kerberos = true.
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[10:43:13] <palowoda> tomww: I was joking about vmware.  I have a dozen person systems to play with. :)
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[11:00:57] <judabrb> i'm gay!
[11:01:12] <PerterB> that's nice, dear
[11:01:39] <trochej> judabrb: What, you bought a Macintosh?
[11:02:23] <judabrb> yah
[11:02:24] <judabrb> u?
[11:03:11] <trochej> Nope.
[11:03:36] <Cyrille> you're waiting for two months for the price to drop one third? ;-)
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[11:04:45] <palowoda> In 2.5 months it should be down 50 percent.
[11:05:50] <kaiwai> hmm, interesting
[11:06:41] <trochej> nope, I am waiting for my new employer to get me one :)
[11:06:44] <kaiwai> I'm waiting till the next Intel refresh with CSI, the new graphics chip and improved Core 2
[11:06:56] <kaiwai> trochej: your employer must be generous
[11:07:19] <flyingparchment> i dislike the way zpool iostat displays 1250 as 1.25K
[11:07:27] <kaiwai> past experience is they generall give you the crappiest dell loaded with the least amount of memory possible
[11:07:28] <flyingparchment> it actually takes more space and isn't very readable
[11:07:55] <judabrb> i got a dell at work
[11:08:17] <judabrb> amd64 x2.. quite zippy
[11:08:21] <kaiwai> I remember the acers at polytech, they were bloody unreliable
[11:08:50] <judabrb> is acer still owned by TI
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[11:09:03] <trochej> kaiwai: They are
[11:09:04] <judabrb> my firs comp (an acer) was reliable
[11:09:17] <kaiwai> TI?
[11:09:18] <judabrb> it was a p78/8mb
[11:09:21] <judabrb> texas instruments
[11:09:24] <judabrb> p75*
[11:09:57] <kaiwai> pardon, according to company information acer is listed on the LSE
[11:10:19] <judabrb> not sure what that :)
[11:10:29] <kaiwai> London Stock Exchange
[11:10:34] <kaiwai> its not owned by TI
[11:10:42] <judabrb> oh my mistake
[11:10:46] <judabrb> Acer bought TI
[11:10:54] <judabrb> all these years i thought it was vice-versa
[11:10:57] <timsf> I had an acer ferrari 3400 laptop - dreadful machine. Motherboard blew after a year.
[11:11:21] <timsf> (fast when it worked though, a faster disk would have been even better)
[11:11:39] <judabrb> there's only one reliable laptop line
[11:11:42] <judabrb> thinkpad
[11:11:43] <kaiwai> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acer_(company)
[11:11:46] <timsf> Toshiba.
[11:11:47] <kaiwai> go down to north america
[11:12:00] <kaiwai> hmm, I've found this HP one pretty good
[11:12:06] <judabrb> not even Toshiba, they lost the title when they outsourced production
[11:12:20] <timsf>  (had an m100 for a few years - gave it tons of abuse, which it managed to deal with no problem...)
[11:12:31] <judabrb> luck of the draw :)
[11:13:04] <timsf> I've a 2nd m100 I'm using at home still (broken screen unfortunately, after it landed on someone's head)
[11:13:18] <kaiwai> I had a A100 and it was nothing but trouble, broke down 2 times in a space of 3 months
[11:14:00] <timsf> That the consumer level line ? - I'd always pegged the Portege ones as a step up.. Waiting on the r500 to hit the Sun-internal laptop list
[11:14:11] <judabrb> toshiba's quality went down the start of the new millenium
[11:14:27] <timsf>  (at which point I'll see if I can get the ferrari replaced - living without a laptop for the past year has been annoying)
[11:14:38] <timsf> judabrb - any stats to back that up?
[11:14:52] <judabrb> i disassembled a satellite pro for repair and there wasn't a single piece of metal reinforcing
[11:14:56] <timsf>  - don't want to get another poor laptop ;-)
[11:14:59] <judabrb> it's all molded (flimsy) plastic
[11:15:11] <kaiwai> judabrb: the days of good quality components is long gone
[11:15:21] <kaiwai> I picked up my toshiba with one hand and you could hear it creaking
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[11:15:59] <timsf> Well, flexible is not /always/ bad...
[11:16:06] <judabrb> board flex can be bad
[11:16:13] <timsf> (from what I've seen on the screen of the R500, it bends nicely)
[11:16:16] <trochej> kaiwai: Which hand? The same with which you have sex?
[11:16:17] <kaiwai> thena gain, if you use quality parts you end up with some dick head complaining it s'too heavy'
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[11:16:49] <kaiwai> trochej: na, got a fb sorted out in that department
[11:17:05] <trochej> You outsource? :)
[11:17:23] <kaiwai> not that he complains :)
[11:17:28] <timsf> like many things, it's a tradeoff - you can have lightweight and quality.. just be prepared to pay for it.
[11:17:55] <judabrb> strong lightweight materials are expensive, like magnesium composites or titanium
[11:18:21] <kaiwai> timsf: true, if you want humour, watch the Apple devotees bitch and moan when their laptop is ever so slight heavier or thicker than the last generation
[11:18:50] <timsf> Tell me abuot it - looked at the smallest iBook (or whatever they're calling it these days) - weighs a ton.
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[11:19:12] <kaiwai> I don't mind if it weights a tonne; I loved their old candy ibooks
[11:19:16] <judabrb> we have a silver macbook at work
[11:19:21] <kaiwai> rubberised, built like a tank
[11:19:22] <judabrb> the screen is brilliant and it is light
[11:19:33] <kaiwai> skipping along to uni with my hot pink laptop :)
[11:19:35] <judabrb> they actually use LED backlighting
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[11:20:37] <judabrb> anyway
[11:20:41] <trochej> kaiwai: I would prefer military made ones, the ones that need to survive being run over by a car :)
[11:20:55] <judabrb> i didnt mean to bag out Toshiba totally, just pointing their out their quality has declined
[11:20:59] <kaiwai> yeah, too bad they're like around $20,000 :(
[11:21:06] <trochej> Tru
[11:21:14] <kaiwai> Fujitsu has I think a range of rugarised laptops
[11:21:17] <kaiwai> IIRC
[11:21:23] <judabrb> panasonic toughbook
[11:21:28] <judabrb> not military grade but close
[11:22:07] <kaiwai> what are they like?
[11:22:17] <trochej> My two last notebooks (FJ and now Lenovo) have crappy plastic
[11:22:23] <judabrb> thinkpads are good enough i reckon, considering they put them on board nasa shuttles
[11:22:29] <trochej> It got scratched on just two/three journeys
[11:22:46] <trochej> I had TP previously, it's 3 years old now, and not a single scratch on it
[11:23:13] <kaiwai> trochej: I'm tempted to go Thinkpad the next time; with Intel everything, processor, graphics, wireless etc.
[11:23:15] <judabrb> the only mod nasa make to the laptops is seal the board with waterproof stuff
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[11:23:22] <judabrb> epoxy or something?
[11:23:51] <trochej> kaiwai: I don't know now, that Lenovo makes them, but then they were pretty good stuff
[11:24:07] <judabrb> all thinkpads are made by lenovo now
[11:24:19] <kaiwai> well, lenovo owns thinkpad
[11:24:23] <judabrb> yes
[11:24:26] <kaiwai> IBM sold their division off
[11:24:31] <trochej> judabrb: I know, but I bought mine when IBM was still the maker
[11:24:35] <kaiwai> first they outsource their production then sold off the business
[11:24:41] <kaiwai> *outsourced to lenovo
[11:24:48] <judabrb> there are still IBM badged lenovo's
[11:24:55] <judabrb> like mine
[11:25:10] <judabrb> the build is not the same as original IBM
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[11:25:20] <trochej> I know, but I don't know their quality
[11:25:23] <kaiwai> most laptops are made by that company in Taiwan that make most ofo them these days
[11:25:24] <judabrb> but it is reliable, i use this laptop as a server
[11:25:37] <judabrb> lol kaiwai 'that company in taiwan'
[11:25:52] <trochej> judabrb: Yeah, my Lenovo is strogner that any server in my actual company, right now :)
[11:26:04] <judabrb> trochej: serious?
[11:26:07] <kaiwai> IIRC Quanta
[11:26:45] <judabrb> my first thinkpad was made in Japan
[11:27:20] <judabrb> all rubberized and feels high quality
[11:27:55] <kaiwai> mind you, did Sun sell many Ultra 3 laptops?
[11:28:39] <kaiwai> $3,030 isn't too bad for a ruggedised laptop
[11:29:21] <judabrb> why dont they produce more computers locally
[11:29:26] <judabrb> i know it translates to more $$$ for corps
[11:29:28] <trochej> judabrb: yup
[11:29:31] <judabrb> but what about local employment
[11:30:02] <kaiwai> judabrb: no one makes computers locally anymore
[11:30:12] <judabrb> not gateway or dell?
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[11:30:39] <kaiwai> nope, heck, the last time NZ had a local computer company, it went bankrupt in a ball of bad debts and legal woes
[11:31:02] <judabrb> ah
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[11:31:15] <Gionni5> hi
[11:31:38] <Gionni5> could anyone help on install ripmime ?
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[11:35:54] * kaiwai says "danny crain!"
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[11:52:33] <trygvis> is it possible to have differently sized memory sticks in a x2200 as long as they're the same on both CPUs?
[11:52:44] <trygvis> i.e. 2x1GB and 2x2GB
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[11:57:06] <Berny> hey calum
[11:57:31] <kaiwai> am I  the only one with crappy speed from dlc?
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[11:59:35] <Berny> prolly not
[12:00:21] <CIA-26> paulson: 6411336 audit_binfile(5) creates an empty audit trail file on startup, 6430878 audit_binfile(5) doesn't rotate the audit.log at all, 6483684 auditd drops audit records when the allhard condition is reached and continue policy is not set, 6492045 auditd does not honor its 20second interval if log file system is full, 6555845 auditd creates audit files in / if no directory specified in audit_control
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[12:11:19] <madhatter> re
[12:12:08] <madhatter> Is there something special about the xterm in Solaris? I noticed a thin line close to the bottom of the xterm window, but I got no idea what that might be helpful for.
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[12:36:03] <LLcoolM> did anyone test opensolaris with virtualbox?
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[12:38:46] <calumb> LLcoolM: somebody in our office had it running on the Mac version a few months ago, haven't seen it done lately though...
[12:39:22] <LLcoolM> hm, it fails with hardware-detection and gives me an emergency console only
[12:39:40] <LLcoolM> something like it cannot spawn any more processes or so
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[12:45:30] <cmihai> LLcoolM, it fails
[12:45:42] <cmihai> LLcoolM, VirtualBox has issues running Solaris.
[12:45:47] <LLcoolM> cmihai: ah ok
[12:45:52] <cmihai> It installs and all, but will die often.
[12:46:01] <cmihai> You're better off with VMware Server, it's free also.
[12:46:12] <cast> newbie question, where would i find an updated SUNWflash-player-plugin, {>7.0.67.0,REV=110.0.4.2007.06.04.20.08}, ive checked blastwave and googled, also ftp.sunfreeware.com, am not sure where to find it :(
[12:46:30] <trygvis> blastwave doesn't have SUNW* packages
[12:46:55] <cmihai> cast, SXCE CD, adobe.com has flash 9 somewhere too
[12:47:13] <LLcoolM> cmihai: afair it is not free, meaning it is requireing a closed source kernel module - which i am not likely to use.
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[12:47:26] <cmihai> You're fucking kidding me, right?
[12:47:43] <cmihai> It's free to use unless you have a stick up your ass about commercial software.
[12:47:47] <cast> cmihai: bit excessive to download an entire SXCE cd though for 2mb of pkg...
[12:47:53] <cmihai> And if that were the case, guess what: so is Solaris. Commercial.
[12:48:12] <LLcoolM> cmihai: i do not use closed source kernel modules due to potential security issues
[12:48:22] <cmihai> Riiiiight.
[12:48:51] <LLcoolM> i have nothing against proprietary software, as long as it doesnt require a closed kernel module
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[12:49:34] <cmihai> Fine, if that's your thing, use VirtualBox. Just install Solaris in text mode.
[12:49:37] <trochej> So if it happens that you need a 3rd party driver for your NIC, you either use open source pr write one?
[12:49:54] <dlg_> LLcoolM: what machines do you run?
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[12:50:04] <PerterB> who does the security audit on the drivers you *do* have source for?
[12:50:14] <cmihai> You remind me of a bunch of OpenBSD blokes...
[12:50:50] <LLcoolM> trochej: i do not buy hardware that requires closed source modules.
[12:51:47] <PerterB> you do realise they're bugging your cellphone though, right?
[12:52:33] <cmihai> You realize just having the source doesn't automagically make things more secure. If of all things, it probably makes it easier for hackers to exploit it unless there's someone doing auditing on your behalf.
[12:52:52] <cmihai> PerterB, actually, all mobile phone conversation are recorded, it's a requirement :-).
[12:53:01] <LLcoolM> PerterB: well, i highly doubt that for i do not have a cellphone. not because of beeing paranoid but because i simply do not need it. i do not want to be called at all times. if i am not at home/work i am not interested in doing (home)work
[12:53:02] <cast> trochej: don't buy such nics, or replace ones like that :)
[12:53:03] <cmihai> At least around here anyway... I know that for a fact.
[12:53:23] <LLcoolM> its as simple as that.
[12:53:36] <trochej> cast: Why? When a module from the vendor makes it work like a charm?
[12:53:42] <renihs> cmihai, you mean connection data
[12:53:47] <renihs> not voice data
[12:53:52] <cast> trochej: because i like freedom :)
[12:53:53] <renihs> speech i mean :p
[12:53:54] <cmihai> Heh, no.
[12:53:57] <cmihai> I mean voice data.
[12:54:00] <cmihai> I mean everything :-)
[12:54:07] <renihs> erm that would be pretty illegal here
[12:54:08] <renihs> which country=
[12:54:43] <cmihai> renihs, just because it's illegal doesn't mean they don't do it :-).
[12:54:52] <cmihai> Romania here. And I know for a fact they do it. Vodaphone too even.
[12:54:57] <renihs> if its illegal they cant do it on large scale
[12:55:04] <renihs> dont say they dont do it but :p
[12:55:29] <PerterB> the whole UK landline phone system was built around making it trivial to tap any particular line (when they went digital), but even here I'm reasonably sure they would try and record everything (just filter it through ECHELON ;)
[12:55:47] <renihs> dosis facit venenum :p
[12:56:06] <cast> this is OT and going no where :\
[12:56:09] <LLcoolM> renihs: look at the us, where the fbi did illegally do 10000s observations and surveillances and only reported somewhat 2000 to the officials (which makes >> 8000 of those measures illegal=
[12:56:29] <renihs> hmm ya but thats not large scale :p
[12:56:42] <renihs> just fbi playing with new toys :p
[12:56:46] <LLcoolM> renihs: well those numbers are only those that were proven.
[12:56:58] <LLcoolM> might be more just yet uncovered
[12:57:03] <renihs> good point :p
[12:57:15] <LLcoolM> but if 4 in  5 are illegal, thats a large relative number
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[12:57:58] <PerterB> still not the same as recording *everything* ... I wonder what the call volume is in Romania though compared to say, France or Germany or the UK
[12:58:19] <renihs> hehe ...smaller :p
[12:58:30] <andyshack> Could someone suggest a slightly comprehensive website that covers a lot of sun systems ?
[12:58:34] <renihs> but bigger than in moldavia :p
[12:58:59] <PerterB> andyshack: sunsolve? :)
[12:59:02] <Berny> i guess here in .de they record quite a large number of calls withou telling ;-)
[12:59:27] <LLcoolM> well enough of all that paranoia, as i said, i do not have a cellphone because i like privacy in sense of that not any idiot can call my whereever i go and expects me to do something for him/her.
[12:59:39] <renihs> Berny, very unlikely
[13:00:07] <andyshack> PerterB : What replaced the v880 ?
[13:00:13] <cmihai> To quote the Simpsons, you're using a Bluetooth phone, the most vulnerable mobile device know to man, and you're worried about privacy and security?
[13:00:18] <PerterB> andyshack: v890
[13:00:21] <renihs> bnd isnt that well equipped nor did it try todo such things until recently
[13:00:33] <renihs> cmihai, heh ya that was cool
[13:00:41] <renihs> nearly as cool as: i am elected to lead not to read :p
[13:00:42] <kjetilho> LLcoolM: http://www.mast-victims.org/gfx/photos/bizarro.jpg
[13:00:48] <Berny> renihs: you sure? it's not the bnd that put up that massive hidden buildings in bavaria...
[13:01:07] <renihs> i am pretty sure the bnd doesnt record
[13:01:18] <PerterB> kjetilho: :)
[13:01:19] <Berny> did i say it was the bnd? ;-)
[13:01:21] <renihs> and if there was another institution that could/would bnd would be rather pissed off :p
[13:01:30] <renihs> you dont wanna piss them off :p
[13:01:48] <renihs> hmm massive buildings...bavaria
[13:01:52] <Berny> only if they don't get any little pieces fed to them once n a while
[13:02:01] <LLcoolM> kjetilho: i know a lot of guys without a mobile phone - some have one but do not have it with them at all times.
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[13:02:41] <renihs> Berny, hehe that doesnt work, getting small pieces of the cake is worse then getting none (if you can have the entire cake and eat it)
[13:03:59] <trochej> LLcoolM: There is that little button that turns the phone off :)
[13:04:00] <Berny> bnd couldn't afford a thing like the echelon station in bavaria... so they are happy after all
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[13:05:39] <LLcoolM> trochej: yes, but why have a phone that is turned of at all times when i am not at home or work?
[13:05:46] <LLcoolM> just is a huge waste of money
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[13:07:34] <trochej> LLcoolM: Maybe. I see it as a convenience, that at any given time I can turn it on and, lets say, call my wife, ask how is she, or what to buy for a dinner
[13:08:15] <trochej> Oh, and don't forget, that I can leave my office and do something else s0oomwhere else and know, thet they will call me, when need comes
[13:08:50] <LLcoolM> trochej: yes you can but you could use your brain a little more and ask that prior to leaving. a mobile phone is in my opinion just to back weakening minds, that weaken because of the mobile phone (you do not need to remember stuff, because you can ask again at any time).
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[13:09:10] <LLcoolM> that is not gonna be good for your mind on a long term prognosis.
[13:09:15] <LLcoolM> digital amnesia.
[13:09:48] <LLcoolM> digital because you depend on those gadgets so much, that you cannot live without them for fact
[13:09:53] <renihs> mammalian minds are ....
[13:10:02] <PerterB> or you could argue it frees your brain up for remembering the more important things, rather than people's telephone numbers
[13:10:06] <renihs> cant use the work weakened if there is nothing :P
[13:10:13] <renihs> work/word
[13:10:28] <LLcoolM> PerterB: on the contrary. it even takes more work from the brain to your cellphone.
[13:10:35] <LLcoolM> so that one day, you brain is just a mess.
[13:11:07] <PerterB> no, that's just bollocks
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[13:12:23] <LLcoolM> PerterB: students today can often not even calculate for themselves without using a calculator
[13:12:37] <LLcoolM> apart from anything beyond that
[13:13:06] <LLcoolM> PerterB: thats what freedom is about, you can live like that but you do not have to
[13:13:29] <PerterB> yes yes, I get your point. it's still bollocks though.
[13:14:07] <LLcoolM> PerterB: your opinion. i am sure you have nothing scientific to back that up, do you?
[13:16:25] <PerterB> there are simply too many counter-examples - pocket calculators have been with us for 20 years now, but people are still managing to design complicated things and count their change in a shop
[13:16:47] <PerterB> and nobody's telling you that you have to use these conveniences, just don't lecture the rest of us about our rotting brains
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[13:19:15] <LLcoolM> PerterB: well your example is a problem because you do not make any cross-reference between those that intensively use a pocketpc and those that are still able to calculate. and 2) it is difficult in general to prove that as you would have to compare the persons skills with and without a pocketpc or whatever on a long-term study.
[13:19:48] <LLcoolM> and as i already said, i am not lecturing anyone. and i will certainly not stop you using a pocketpc :-)
[13:19:59] <Doc> http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2007016295907.gif
[13:20:16] <Doc> (yes, it's actually sorta on-topic! :)
[13:20:28] <Cyrille> is it the one with the quarter change?
[13:20:48] <Doc> given the "2007" in the url, i'd expect not...
[13:21:45] <Cyrille> no, it's not.
[13:21:46] <PerterB> LLcoolM: I don't need a pocket pc, I have very good mental arithmetic (plus I was brought up on slide rules anyway)
[13:23:18] <andyshack> PerterB : do you carry the slide rule ? i learnt the basics of a simple one for flying and laughed my ass off at how easy they are when you get used to it. pretty clever things.
[13:23:22] <trochej> LLcoolM: Call it weakness of the mind, if you want, I call it a convenience. If I don;t want to be called, I turn it off. Simple and makes no bizzare poilicies of not having mobile. Also, when small kids and pregnant women come in sight, not everything can be "asked before"
[13:23:28] <trochej> PerterB: :)
[13:23:33] <trochej> PerterB: And abacus
[13:23:39] <trochej> One cool piece of hardware
[13:24:02] <renihs> just the software is flawed :p
[13:24:07] <asyd> Doc: ahah
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[13:24:42] <trochej> renihs: Naaah. It even has a kind of pointers :)
[13:24:55] <renihs> haha :p
[13:25:36] <PerterB> andyshack: no, I don't :) and if I'm being lazy I just use bc
[13:26:03] <WickedWicky> I think I am gonna like working for KPN after all
[13:26:12] * WickedWicky just saw a new female coworkster
[13:26:18] <WickedWicky> czech :D :D
[13:26:30] <trochej> :)
[13:26:33] <WickedWicky> to bad I only speak broken croatian and not czech :P
[13:26:38] <WickedWicky> I can say dobri den though
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[13:26:48] <WickedWicky> so that's at leastsomething to be polite
[13:27:22] <WickedWicky> and "da" , "gdje" "pivo" (very important)
[13:27:31] <renihs> body language is much better for courtship behaviour anyway
[13:27:43] <WickedWicky> yes, but ppl look weird when you do that on the work floor
[13:27:49] <trochej> WickedWicky: Da is russian, I believe
[13:28:00] <renihs> Da is yes in alot languages
[13:28:01] <renihs> :p
[13:28:04] <WickedWicky> yeah
[13:28:08] <WickedWicky> da, ne
[13:28:19] <WickedWicky> I wonder if volim te means is the same as in croatian
[13:28:20] <trochej> WickedWicky: Only for first few weeks, then they get used to it
[13:28:25] <trochej> And then they sell it on the net
[13:28:36] <trochej> WickedWicky: I love you
[13:28:39] <WickedWicky> es
[13:28:39] <trochej> Translation
[13:28:41] <WickedWicky> yes, good
[13:28:46] <WickedWicky> same as in croatian then
[13:28:52] <WickedWicky> volim pivo!
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[13:29:24] <trochej> The same language family IIRC
[13:29:35] <WickedWicky> they're both slavic languages if I am right
[13:29:51] <Berny> yes
[13:30:05] <trochej> Yup
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[13:30:26] <trochej> I once even remembered which one, Southern?
[13:30:55] <WickedWicky> that I dont know
[13:31:18] <trochej> I believe so. Czech is southern
[13:32:34] <trochej> If I had some words that underwent transposition during middle ages, I'd be able to tell better
[13:34:24] <kaiwai> hi WickedWicky
[13:34:38] <trochej> kaiwai: Can you give me some transposition?
[13:34:57] <Berny> isn't it enough to agree on "she a hot czech? girl" ;-P
[13:35:20] <trochej> Berny: Maybe. But then, what geeks would we be?
[13:35:34] * Berny is no language geek :-P
[13:35:52] <kaiwai> hmm, I don't know czech
[13:36:06] <trochej> Berny: also, when WickedWicky approaches her armed with throughout intimate knowledge of her language, he might become more intimate with her tongue :)
[13:36:08] <Berny> i speak enough languages to survive on this planet... enough for me :-)
[13:36:22] <dlg_> c?
[13:36:26] <trochej> Berny: C
[13:36:27] <Berny> lol
[13:36:28] <trochej> dlg_: ROTFL
[13:36:43] <Berny> c is among them yes :-P
[13:36:55] <Berny> i can even survive planet opensolaris :-P
[13:37:10] <kaiwai> I'm gradually learning C
[13:37:13] <kaiwai> as painful as it is
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[13:37:18] <dlg_> kaiwai: its pretty easy
[13:37:26] <dlg_> its only a handful of language constructs
[13:37:33] <kaiwai> yeah, but I tend to suck
[13:37:38] *** dlg_ is now known as dlg
[13:37:48] <dlg> kaiwai: just find something thats annoying you and try to fix it
[13:37:49] <LLcoolM> dlg_: but from syntax to good c code is a huge step :)
[13:37:54] <cmihai> We really don't care about your sexual tendencies...
[13:38:11] <dlg> LLcoolM: dont discourage him
[13:38:13] <Berny> cmihai: !
[13:38:21] <LLcoolM> cmihai: lol, i bet kaiwai didnt understand that :)
[13:38:30] <cmihai> Oh, trust me, he did :-)
[13:38:33] <Berny> .oO(i was thinking along the same lines)
[13:38:40] <cmihai> Hehe
[13:39:21] <andyshack> I thought he likes sheep. Aren't you a kiwi kaiwai ?
[13:40:01] <kaiwai> yeap :)
[13:40:03] <quasi> andyshack: kaiwai is part sheep ;)
[13:40:08] <renihs> sheep are cool
[13:40:13] <andyshack> You may also find comfort that I can hardly even bang out pascal.
[13:40:17] <trochej> Sheep are nice. Well roasted and with wine
[13:40:19] <trochej> Tasty
[13:40:28] <renihs> without them computers would have appeared much later :p
[13:40:35] <trochej> andyshack: I wouldn't bang out pascal, since he died some centuries ago
[13:40:36] <kjetilho> trochej: that's an insensitive way to refer to kaiwai grandmother!
[13:41:09] <trochej> kjetilho: Yeah? Say that to all theese worms that will eat you when you die
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[13:42:02] <kaiwai> dlg: I assume they want Opensolaris to still work, I'll avoid that till I actually know something
[13:42:30] <dlg> kaiwai: they'll check it first
[13:42:33] <dlg> and peer review is good
[13:42:34] <andyshack> Can anyone recomend some OS document managment systems ?
[13:42:46] <Doc> vi
[13:42:49] <kaiwai> dlg: if there is something I'll work on, it'll be wpa for 3945 wireless
[13:42:51] <trochej>  Ughm. I knew that building corporate wifi on Linksys was a bad idea. But why listen to me?
[13:43:15] <andyshack> Doc : I've learnt to love vi. It took a while.
[13:43:16] <dlg> kaiwai: thats a stack issue, not a driver issue
[13:43:28] <dlg> andyshack: vi
[13:43:33] <Doc> vi, grep and less are the only OS document mangagement system you need :)
[13:43:34] <kaiwai> hmm, there is wpa already, the driver itself doesn't support it
[13:43:43] <dlg> hrm
[13:43:55] <dlg> the driver should just copy frames on and off the wire
[13:44:04] <dlg> well
[13:44:06] <dlg> air
[13:44:07] <dlg> not wire
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[13:44:35] <Doc> off topic, but anyone played around with the google search appliance boxes?
[13:44:44] <kaiwai> dlg: I would need to read the ipw3945 driver source code which has the wpa issue covered; now, de-gpl'ing is the difficult part
[13:44:59] <trochej> dlg: For the sake of discussion, you can say that it's the wire
[13:45:06] <dlg> whered you guys get it from?
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[13:45:14] <dlg> i thought you ported all openbsds drivers
[13:45:18] <dlg> which are not gpl
[13:45:23] <kaiwai> yeap, which doesn't support wpa
[13:45:39] <dlg> damiens almost got wpa working
[13:45:42] <kaiwai> I'll need to use ipw3945 as reference to implement wpa on the solaris drivers
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[13:48:21] <kaiwai> dlg: there are a few performance issues and reliability which I'd like to sort out too
[13:48:36] <dlg> yep
[13:48:45] * dlg would be interested in that too
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[13:52:22] <Berny> while we're talking about wpa and stuff... any hints why nwam gets a dhcp address on a wep encrypted (or unencrypted) link but fails to get one if i use wpa? it connects fine... but dhcp fails... manually adding the ip works though
[13:52:43] <Berny> tried that on 3 different aps same result...
[13:53:56] <trochej> Ooooookaaaay
[13:58:19] <kaiwai> Berny: whats your wireless chipset?
[14:00:16] <Berny> atheros :-)
[14:00:30] <Berny> so nwam/dladm connect fine with wpa
[14:00:43] <Berny> just dhcp doesn't get an address
[14:01:41] <kaiwai> probably best to submit a bug report for it
[14:02:33] <Berny> after next upgrade ;-)
[14:02:52] <kaiwai> lol, what build are you running?
[14:03:03] <Berny> 68
[14:03:06] <kaiwai> ah
[14:03:35] <kaiwai> I'm going to wait till B75/76/77 which hopefully will have GNOmE 2.20
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[14:04:21] <Berny> right daughter woke up... gotta go...
[14:04:30] <Berny> nice weekend everyone
[14:06:58] <kaiwai> have fun
[14:07:00] <kaiwai> keep safe
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[14:20:44] <WickedWicky> who's an exim god here
[14:21:13] <kjetilho> me me me!
[14:21:26] <WickedWicky> Hear me oh God.
[14:21:27] <WickedWicky> serious
[14:21:28] * kjetilho jumps up and down
[14:21:33] <WickedWicky> I wanna migrate from qmail to exim
[14:21:45] <WickedWicky> and I am looking for a way to do virtual domains
[14:21:45] * kjetilho makes the sign of the cross
[14:21:45] <WickedWicky> so
[14:21:53] <trochej> WickedWicky: There is/is going to be a cool book on exim
[14:22:03] <quasi> WickedWicky: one kind of pain to another?
[14:22:10] <kjetilho> the problem with Exim is that there is so many ways to do it.  it's like a programming language
[14:22:13] <WickedWicky> bla at domain1 dot com should go somewhere like /var/mail/domain1/user/Maildir and for user at domain2 dot com to /var/mail/domain2/user/Maildir
[14:22:35] <WickedWicky> quasi: I love pain, hence why I dig eastern european and south american girls
[14:23:16] <quasi> WickedWicky: argh!
[14:23:56] <WickedWicky> kjetilho: so its possible?
[14:24:04] <WickedWicky> cause what I read its only possible to map to local users
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[14:27:30] <kjetilho> WickedWicky: anything is possible :)
[14:27:45] <perlmonk> But everything's relative :)
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[14:29:02] <perlmonk> kjetilho, Check the exim new users website
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[14:29:51] <kjetilho> WickedWicky: you can probably just use ${domain} in a strategic place in your local delivery transport
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[14:30:29] <_judas_> don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk
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[14:31:48] <trochej> http://www.livevalidation.com/
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[15:07:08] <solar-star> Hi
[15:07:23] <_judas_> hey cutiepie
[15:07:32] <solar-star> Is there anybody who knows how to alter menu.lst on zfs?
[15:07:49] <solar-star> I mean root is on zfs pool
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[15:24:51] <nachox> morning
[15:25:28] <cast> solar-star: could use a livecd?
[15:29:40] <solar-star> cast: yes
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[15:38:31] <SYS64738> after using editprop inside svccfg what's the right way to save things ?
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[15:40:35] <DoYouKnow> Hello. I downloaded and installed opensolaris, but some things appear to be corrupted
[15:40:54] <DoYouKnow> I tried the UNICODE text converter but it seems to think my files are already utf-8
[15:41:17] <DoYouKnow> I am thinking that my applications don't support UTF-8, which makes sense since I selected POSIX C locale during install
[15:41:21] <DoYouKnow> how do I fix it?
[15:41:36] <DoYouKnow> my terminal rather
[15:41:53] <DoYouKnow> I know the files are intact
[15:43:35] <DoYouKnow> hmmm
[15:43:38] <DoYouKnow> this is a pickle
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[15:46:49] <nachox> you can add locales with localeadm
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[15:47:35] <nachox> and you can change the default locale used by X11 in the menus of either dtlogin or gdm
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[15:48:55] <nachox> on a side note the link to the localeadm man page in http://developers.sun.com/dev/gadc/faq/locale.html points to lucompare
[15:50:42] <DoYouKnow> ok thanks
[15:50:45] <DoYouKnow> I'll look at that
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[15:51:43] <nachox> btw, all the locales are in your solaris install media, you dont need to download anything else
[15:53:41] <timsf> solar-star, I know a bit about zfs root - what's the problem with your menu.lst ?
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[16:07:54] <tsoome> oh nice, they left out 64 bit nss_winbind  module:(
[16:09:54] <_judas_> hey guys
[16:09:59] <_judas_> guess what im wearign
[16:10:11] <holcomb> nothing?
[16:10:15] <_judas_> nothing
[16:10:17] <_judas_> i'm naked
[16:10:43] <_judas_> u?
[16:10:44] <_judas_> :)
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[16:16:04] <elektronkind> help
[16:16:08] <elektronkind> my boss is listening to ABBA
[16:16:24] * elektronkind files a RFE
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[16:17:54] <_judas_> elektronkind: dance along to it
[16:18:16] <_judas_> you are the dancing queen, young and sweet..
[16:18:23] <_judas_> only seventeen
[16:18:41] <the-decider> elektronkind: No, that's Jason listening to ABBA>
[16:18:56] <the-decider> elektronkind: earlier it was Erasure.
[16:19:08] * the-decider is listening to Groove Salad.
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[16:22:11] <DoYouKnow> how do I boot into 32-bit solaris on an x64 system?
[16:22:49] <movement> what version of solaris?
[16:23:18] <DoYouKnow> open 11
[16:23:28] <movement> is it recent?
[16:23:31] <DoYouKnow> build 71
[16:23:40] <movement> edit /boot/grub/menu.lst
[16:23:55] <movement> add a new entry, and in that entry remove all the $ISADIR bits
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[16:24:09] <movement> but why are you booting 32-bit?
[16:25:45] <DoYouKnow> to support bcm 4318
[16:27:26] <DoYouKnow> broadcom WLAN 4318
[16:27:42] <elektronkind> ah, via ndis ?
[16:27:49] <DoYouKnow> yeah
[16:28:45] <DoYouKnow> brb
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[16:29:14] <the-decider> misleading /. headline of the morning: IT: Sun CEO Says NetApp Lied in Fear of Open Source
[16:29:58] <quasi> the-decider: not really that far off the mark
[16:30:10] <the-decider> yeah, but I didn't see the word "lie" in his blog ;)
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[16:32:04] <quasi> no, that would be dangerous wording
[16:32:43] <_judas_> i have itchy private regions
[16:33:09] <cast> _judas_: are you a jock?
[16:33:14] <_judas_> nah
[16:33:27] <_judas_> i sit a lot though
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[16:36:40] <elektronkind> oh wow, there's a car on fire outside my office
[16:37:11] <Cyrille> where's your office located?
[16:37:21] <elektronkind> baltimore, maryland, us
[16:37:40] <elektronkind> university campus
[16:38:07] <_judas_> pics?
[16:38:19] <elektronkind> heh, no. my phone sucks
[16:38:29] <Cyrille> it's on fire too?
[16:38:30] <elektronkind> the fire dept. just arrived and put it out
[16:39:04] <elektronkind> you're supposed to have barbeques on fridays, not carbeques.
[16:39:33] <dclarke> morning
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[16:42:28] <andyshack> need i fear zfs leaving re the headlines about the place ? or is that nonsense and i can keep my plans to commit all of my data to it for the next whatever decades until something better comes out ?
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[16:44:01] <_judas_> i have a feeling zfs will be around for a while
[16:44:37] <_judas_> its not just a solaris thing.. by making it open they've made it popular for other OSes (osx) and netework storage device vendors
[16:45:35] <cast> on another note..."So it sounds like the CDDL can go into GPLd projects, but not the other way around." that true?
[16:46:47] <andyshack> thats what i was thinking. sounds good. i like it quite a lot and would be rather shitty if it didnt hang around for a while.
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[16:48:31] <movement> cast: enough license discussions here, thanks...
[16:49:58] <cast> movement: a single byte answer would do ;)
[16:50:18] <Cyrille> no it wouldn't, that's the whole problem :-)
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[16:50:56] <paul> cast: you'd have to ask a lawyer, the conventional wisdom is "usually not"
[16:51:25] <cast> ahh. ok.
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[16:56:50] <LLcoolM> hi, i claimed yesterday that opensolaris wouldnt start the installer with virtualbox.
[16:57:25] <LLcoolM> however that seems untrue, just the ram requirements are false. it seems the installer requires 768mb of ram instead of 384
[16:58:37] <LLcoolM> btw. i hope this is only for the installer, because i want to run xorg and fluxbox and hope for that 256mb will be enough
[16:58:46] <LLcoolM> would be ashame otherwise.
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[16:59:37] <nachox> the next nv70 respin should lower the memory requirements of the text based install to 512
[17:00:13] <_judas_> yah you need 768 for express
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[17:05:40] <LLcoolM> _judas_: for the installer or for solaris to work in general?
[17:06:16] <_judas_> installer
[17:06:57] <LLcoolM> during boot it says: skipped interface pcn0. can i assume that this means the virtual network interface card is supported?
[17:06:59] <_judas_> if you choose not to install the development tools its 512mb
[17:08:41] <LLcoolM> dont need that for browsing, as long is i do not have to compile firefox myself :)
[17:10:20] <_judas_> ive read that solaris gnome won't work under vbox
[17:10:32] <_judas_> but cde works fine
[17:11:40] <_judas_> have you read forums regarding solaris on virtualbox
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[17:12:43] <lucky_luck> hello
[17:12:58] <LLcoolM> _judas_: not yet. but the installer seems to work fine so far if i use 768mb ram
[17:13:16] <_judas_> ok
[17:13:41] <LLcoolM> but i'll report about problems later :)
[17:14:11] <lucky_luck> I'm reinstalling Solaris in my HD and when its installing the system.... It's impossible createfdisk duplicates solaris slices
[17:14:16] <lucky_luck> what-s happen ?
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[17:15:55] <lucky_luck> d
[17:16:34] <timsf> w00t, my new GPS works under Solaris.
[17:16:43] <timsf> (erm, well it would - it being USB mass storage ;-)
[17:16:44] <axisys> anyone here played w/ a 6920? I need to find out if possible to create one lun per disk, not one lun per the size of a disk
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[17:18:43] <_judas_> lucky_luck: remove the old partitions?
[17:19:20] <lucky_luck> I remove all my old partitions.. with partition magic and fdisk
[17:19:45] <axisys> may be i can use the 6920 as san and then use iscsi+zfs ? any suggestion?
[17:19:46] <lucky_luck> I can install debian, I can install slackware... but I can't install opensolaris
[17:20:04] <LLcoolM> lucky_luck: i guess you are just not lucky enough :)
[17:21:40] <lucky_luck> mmmmm..... it's the second time I install opensolaris
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[17:21:52] <lucky_luck> it's possible that I can-t reinstall OS in the same machine ?
[17:22:33] <lucky_luck> well...... in the same hard disk xD
[17:23:04] <_judas_> does it give you an option to make custom slices
[17:23:41] <_judas_> if you have a linux swap partition lying about the installer will think it is solaris
[17:23:56] <_judas_> so you will have to create new slices
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[17:25:27] <lucky_luck> and if I remove my swap partition ?
[17:25:37] <_judas_> linux swap and solaris have the same partition ID = 82
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[17:25:56] <lucky_luck> yes
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[17:26:13] <_judas_> then it should install..
[17:26:52] <lucky_luck> well, I try to remove swap and install solaris
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[17:42:28] <lucky_luck> well _judas.... by the moment seems that remove swap works :)
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[17:47:52] <_judas_> :)
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[17:55:29] <lucky_luck> another question.... if solaris partition create a new swap slice.... I don-t need another swap partition
[17:56:18] <lucky_luck> because I load my system in Solaris... and this partition has swap
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[17:58:52] <lucky_luck> when I installed BSD I remeber that I've swap partition on HD and another in BSD's slice...
[17:59:14] <lucky_luck> now I'm thinking if I doesn't need it
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[18:13:33] <andyshack> As I know nothing, is DTrace going to help me with anything or should i leave it alone until I work out some more of the basics ?
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[18:14:27] <DoYouKnow> hello
[18:14:32] <DoYouKnow> I am having trouble getting DNS working
[18:14:46] <DoYouKnow> how do I restart dns and execute dns client on all interfaces?
[18:15:04] <wesolows> the DNS client doesn't have any "running" component
[18:15:17] <wesolows> you can svcadm clear/svcadm enable dns/client, but it doesn't actually do anything
[18:15:31] <wesolows> the important thing is to make sure that /etc/resolv.conf and /etc/nsswitch.conf are configured correctly
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[18:18:41] <kaiwai> DoYouKnow: what happens to be the exact issue with DNS?
[18:18:46] <kaiwai> are you using nwam?
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[18:20:22] <DoYouKnow> no
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[18:20:36] <DoYouKnow> well, when I try to ping a DNS address it fails
[18:20:45] <DoYouKnow> when I try to ping an IP address it succeeds
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[18:23:41] <kaiwai> I assume dns address = www.google.com
[18:23:50] <DoYouKnow> yes
[18:23:54] <DoYouKnow> a domain
[18:24:01] <kaiwai> are you using a static or dhcp?
[18:26:47] <madhatter> Can somebody recommend a torrent client? I used Transmission, but that does not seem to be supported on solaris :(
[18:28:06] <kaiwai> madhatter: I quite liked the Azeurus (or how ever it is spelt)
[18:28:07] <LLcoolM> is solaris able to mount cifs or smb directories?
[18:28:22] <kaiwai> madhatter: IIRC opera has a very basic bittorrent as well
[18:28:23] <LLcoolM> kaiwai: azureus afaik
[18:28:48] <kaiwai> LLcoolM: yeap, just use the network thing on the desktop
[18:28:51] <LLcoolM> comes from the french word azure which is some blue color
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[18:29:50] <kaiwai> drag the folder into the side bar as a short cut for future reference
[18:30:01] <DoYouKnow> I figured it out
[18:30:06] <DoYouKnow> my routes are all messed up
[18:30:31] <kaiwai> yeah, I was just going to ask that
[18:30:36] <DoYouKnow> I need to configure my routes for this interface for an internet address
[18:30:51] <kaiwai> hmm, you have an ADSL router?
[18:31:05] <DoYouKnow> yeah, I have a DSL router
[18:31:12] <DoYouKnow> not technically sure what this type of dsl is though
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[18:32:19] <kaiwai> damn I hate slashdot
[18:32:40] <kaiwai> DoYouKnow: it should be DHCP then, as long as you haven't ballsed around with it from its default settings
[18:33:58] <DoYouKnow> hmm... I added a route 0.0.0.0 192.168.1.1
[18:34:03] <DoYouKnow> and dns still doesn't work
[18:34:10] <DoYouKnow> I'm not using dhcp
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[18:35:02] <DoYouKno1> but it works
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[18:35:06] <DoYouKno1> I am on it now
[18:35:17] <DoYouKno1> I just need to figure out why DNS isn't working...
[18:35:29] <kaiwai> why not use DHCP?
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[18:36:25] <DoYouKnow> because DNS wasn't working there either
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[18:38:41] <DoYouKnow> ok, I enabled DHCP
[18:38:43] <DoYouKnow> same problem
[18:38:52] <kaiwai> enable dhcp, disable physical, enable nwam
[18:38:53] <DoYouKnow> I can ping the DNS server, but it doesn't get an address
[18:39:07] <kaiwai> nwam should autoconfig everything for you
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[18:44:55] <DoYouKnow> then reenable physical?
[18:45:13] <kaiwai> nope, nwam will autodetect the connection and do the whole autoconfig for you
[18:45:42] <kaiwai> svcadm disable svc:/network/physical:default
[18:45:53] <kaiwai> svcadm enable svc:/network/physical:nwam
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[18:47:20] <kaiwai> then a little dialogue should pop up saying that you've received an ip address and its al setup
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[18:48:13] <DoYouKnow> I got a dialog that said, choose the wifi network you wish to configure
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[18:48:35] <kaiwai> but are you wireless or wired?
[18:48:42] <DoYouKnow> right when I typed the command the light when on, then I got the dialog, but afterwards I can't even ping an address
[18:48:44] <DoYouKnow> wireless
[18:48:55] <kaiwai> ok, what type of encryption? wep or wpa?
[18:49:13] <kaiwai> and what chipset?
[18:49:58] <DoYouKnow> ok, that's because I had to enter an ssid
[18:50:00] <DoYouKnow> it works now
[18:50:11] <tek-ops> I'm just curious
[18:50:14] <DoYouKnow> ok it all works
[18:50:15] <DoYouKnow> thanks
[18:50:22] <DoYouKnow> it's a broadcom 4318
[18:50:27] <tek-ops> is there currently active development in the ACHI Sata community?
[18:50:35] <kaiwai> ah, the joy of broadcom
[18:50:40] <DoYouKnow> lol
[18:51:02] <tek-ops> I've had no issues with Broadcom using the NDISwrapper
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[18:51:14] <tek-ops> opensolaris has implemented it quite well
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[18:51:59] <nachox> crap, WWIII at osol-discuss...
[18:52:06] <kaiwai> tek-ops: true, but a native one would be nicer though; then again, the 3945 one is pretty damn awesome
[18:52:21] <tek-ops> how about Ralink support?
[18:52:35] <tek-ops> dont they hand out documentation to anyone who askes?
[18:53:25] <tek-ops> I'm not one to talk as I have no driver developement experience... I do applications, the deepest layer I've hit is sockets...
[18:53:51] <kaiwai> tek-ops: not too sure, I know that Realtek tends to be quite happy to help out
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[18:54:18] <kaiwai> then again, I think Realtek business is based on volume rather than 'who has the secret sauce'
[18:54:19] <tek-ops> I just know some OpenBSD guys who praise Ralink for their support
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[18:54:53] <kaiwai> tek-ops: well if OpenBSD are happy I guess they're no so bad, given how vocal Theo can be if he doesn't get support :-D
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[18:56:02] <tek-ops> yea
[18:56:10] <tek-ops> and check out the hardware support they have
[18:56:37] <tek-ops> ralink is quite supported
[18:57:03] <tek-ops> now if only I could hot swap drives on my ICH-8 Sata system
[18:57:18] <kaiwai> oh well, hopefully wpa will appear soon in Intel 3945 a/b/g
[18:57:43] <kaiwai> tek-ops: oh, does your sata chipset support it?
[18:57:56] <tek-ops> yes
[18:58:06] <tek-ops> ICH-7 and ICH-8 support hot-swap
[18:58:10] <kaiwai> oh, more of a software/driver issue I assume
[18:58:42] <tek-ops> right, it's only supported when the controller is in RAID-mode, however solaris can only see the drives when it's in legacy-mode (appears as ide drives)
[18:58:58] <tek-ops> though they are still treated as scsi from what I can tell
[19:00:18] <kaiwai> hmm, mine is in native AHCI mode and is supported
[19:01:05] <tek-ops> ICH-8?
[19:01:33] <kaiwai> hmm, not too sure, its a laptop, all I know is in BIOS its setup as "SATA Native" and enabled
[19:01:58] <tek-ops> prtdiag i belive
[19:02:04] <tek-ops> prtdiag -d
[19:02:18] <tek-ops> it's been over a month since I've had the luxury of touching a solaris box
[19:03:07] <tek-ops> and I'm bouncing in my chair for that chipset to be supported so that I can move my linux file server (my only linux box) to opensolaris
[19:03:20] <kaiwai> ah
[19:03:32] <tek-ops> and then my goal is to get mythtv working successfully under open solaris, which i'm sure will be cake
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[19:03:49] <tek-ops> I'm more concerned with VLC building correctly
[19:04:35] <kaiwai> using SFE/pkgbuild?
[19:04:58] <kaiwai> I had nothing by trouble trying to get SFE to work properly
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[19:07:04] <kaiwai> I tried to compile mplayer and it wouldn't resolve the dependencies - even though I specified download as an option
[19:07:55] <gobbler> my app encounters page fault (normal behaviour to fetch pages from a mmap()'ed file) - is there a way to determine which page caused that?
[19:09:16] <_judas_> morning kaiwai
[19:09:25] <kaiwai> hi _judas_
[19:09:46] <kaiwai> Solaris runs really nicely on 2gigs of memory
[19:09:47] <sommerfeld> gobbler: there are a bunch of dtrace trace points in the vm system.
[19:10:13] <_judas_> yah it choked my 1gb system
[19:10:39] <_judas_> gnome was the culprit :<
[19:10:44] <kaiwai> _judas_: atleast it isn't Vista
[19:11:01] <_judas_> hmm
[19:11:04] <kaiwai> hmm, strage, I think that system monitor is giving in accurate memory usage
[19:11:17] <_judas_> i am tempted to try vista i must admit
[19:11:18] <_judas_> :)
[19:11:25] <gobbler> sommerfeld: hmm, not that way, basically i have many mmapped regions and i want to call page faults to each map to call madvise(DONTNEED) after a certain amount - so i want to handle the faults in the application itself. somehow "truss -M all" can trace PAGEFLTs
[19:11:42] <gobbler> sommerfeld: err count page faults, not call....
[19:12:32] <kaiwai> _judas_: I had it preloaded on this laptop, I quickly moved off it the mement I got it; its so constrictive in what can be done
[19:12:41] <tek-ops> well i'm off for now
[19:12:47] <tek-ops> bye all
[19:12:53] <kaiwai> or in my case, I loaded on a few apps and all hell broken loose
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[19:12:56] <kaiwai> see ya tek-ops
[19:13:02] <_judas_> it makes an excellent hard drive filler
[19:13:18] <_judas_> oh
[19:14:30] <kaiwai> yeap, loaded on some apps then nero stopped burning cds, coming up with random errors
[19:14:31] <_judas_> i found 3 OSes run well for what i need them for.. solaris (of course), slack linux and openbsd
[19:14:48] <_judas_> inc. media, gaming, coding, net needs
[19:14:55] <kaiwai> nothing wrong with my drive because Microsofts own cdburner from their Win 2003 resource kit worked peachy
[19:15:07] <_judas_> cdrecord all the way
[19:15:25] <kaiwai> yeah, agreed' does what needs to be done with minimum fuss and hype
[19:15:39] <hohum> I'm going to create a fork of OpenSolaris and call it Lunaris
[19:15:46] <kaiwai> I used to be a FreeBSD fanboy many years ago
[19:15:53] <_judas_> hohum: sounds gay!
[19:16:02] <kaiwai> hohum: whats the catch?
[19:16:07] <hohum> :)
[19:16:15] <_judas_> i was going to develop PornOS 6.9
[19:16:26] <kaiwai> _judas_: na, if it were gay ir would be 'Solaris 11 fabulous edition'
[19:16:38] <_judas_> it's an OS preloaded w/ porn
[19:16:38] <gobbler> sommerfeld: just found out, truss does it via /proc (see sys/fault.h)
[19:16:47] <_judas_> hehe fabulous :)
[19:17:07] <_judas_> flaming edition
[19:17:18] <kaiwai> I'll let it partition my root any day of the week :)
[19:17:39] <WickedWicky> eya
[19:18:03] <kaiwai> 'allo WickedWicky
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[19:21:49] <_judas_> kaiwai: what time is it there?
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[19:26:02] <kaiwai> its 5:25am
[19:26:04] <kaiwai> saturday
[19:27:30] <nachox> go to sleep?
[19:28:33] <kaiwai> maybe
[19:28:59] <kaiwai> I wouldn't mind being in a coma for 20 years
[19:29:09] <WickedWicky> that's a long sleep
[19:29:36] <wesolows> I think it would depend on whether I age during that time
[19:29:51] <DoYouKnow> people in comas age
[19:30:03] <wesolows> right - making it unattractive
[19:30:14] <kaiwai> hmm either that or being in some sort of deep sci-fi sleep
[19:30:21] <DoYouKnow> I wouldn't mind being in a comma...      ,  <---- right there
[19:30:50] <wesolows> also, quality of life has been getting steadily worse for at least 100 years now...and there's no reason to think that will change any time soon.  So better to live now.
[19:31:55] <kaiwai> true; it goes from bad to worse each day
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[19:32:06] <_judas_> have you heard of those people who go into coma for 30 years
[19:32:15] <_judas_> and wake up as if nothing happened
[19:32:25] <_judas_> like it was just a nap
[19:33:23] <kaiwai> mind you, 30 years time, the same linux fanboys will be claiming that 2028 is the year of the desktop
[19:33:30] <kaiwai> oops, 2038
[19:33:44] <nachox> the only problem with being in a coma for that long is extensive body decay
[19:34:00] <madhatter> I know I read it somewhere: problems connecting to pop3 ports from opensolaris. Where is that set?
[19:34:03] <kaiwai> hmm, its decaying pretty badly even today
[19:34:41] <sommerfeld> judas: overstating the case significantly.  there have been cases where people diagnosed as being in a "persistent vegitative state" regained consciousness.
[19:35:14] <trochej> persistent vaginative state?
[19:35:15] <trochej> hmmm
[19:35:31] <nachox> ...
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[19:36:37] <jamesd> and sun will be calling year  2038, the year to finally migrate all "Legacy apps" off Solaris 8 before it everything breaks because of epoch roll over.
[19:36:47] <PerterB> interestingly, feeding them sleeping pills sometimes seems to bring them out of it
[19:36:49] <kaiwai> lol
[19:37:11] <kaiwai> and I'm sure Scott will be saying, "I guess Windows so bad after all" as he purchases his first Windows machine
[19:37:20] <wesolows> jamesd: no way, we'll puss out and give people patches for S8 instead
[19:37:51] <PerterB> wesolows: for a small consideration, of course
[19:37:54] <jamesd> quite possibly...
[19:38:12] <wesolows> S8 will outlive us all, because Sun lacks the will to kill it.
[19:38:44] * g4lt-mordant notes they had DST patches for 2.5.1
[19:38:47] <madhatter> Is there some special hosts.allow that blocks outgoing connections to pop3 ports?
[19:38:49] <kaiwai> maybe it'll be like a fine wine, gets better with age
[19:39:10] <PerterB> madhatter: not unless you set up some very perverse ipf rules
[19:39:27] <madhatter> PerterB: No, I did not configure that yet at all
[19:39:53] <PerterB> then why would you expect an OS to block outgoing connections?
[19:39:58] <madhatter> But I connect to the pop server from two hosts in the same net. The one connects, the other does not
[19:40:27] <madhatter> I copied the config from one to the other
[19:40:30] <kaiwai> hmm, trojan relaying mail?
[19:40:39] <PerterB> I would check your routing, netmasks and name resolution before assuming blockage
[19:41:21] <madhatter> PerterB: Shouldn't I then have issues to connect anything outside?
[19:41:22] <LLcoolM> are there also 3rd party packages for solaris?
[19:41:30] <PerterB> potentially, yes
[19:41:36] <LLcoolM> like mplayer & co
[19:41:57] <LLcoolM> PerterB: any idea where to find them?
[19:42:08] <LLcoolM> dont wanna compile it all by myself if not necessary
[19:42:08] <kaiwai> you have to build them yourself unfortunately
[19:42:19] <LLcoolM> :-(
[19:42:24] <PerterB> actually I was talking to madhatter, but sunfreeware and blastwave are the usual repositories
[19:43:06] <madhatter> PerterB: I can connect port 80 and 22 outside. That's why I suppose there is something set special for port 110.
[19:43:28] <PerterB> madhatter: I'll wager 50p that you suppose wrong
[19:44:11] <madhatter> PerterB: Hmmmm
[19:44:11] <kaiwai> damn, I wish I had that link to the old codec pack for solaris which a person mirrored
[19:45:22] <PerterB> madhatter: is there a firewall between you and the pop server that you don't control, that may be blocking port 110 but your solaris box won't be
[19:46:15] <DoYouKnow> hmmm
[19:46:23] <DoYouKnow> Can you create a storage pool with just one drive?
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[19:46:40] <DoYouKnow> the zfs demo on sun.com used multiple drives
[19:46:44] <Auralis> yes
[19:47:17] <madhatter> PerterB: I deactivated ssl on the solaris box' fetchmail, because it did not work somehow. So it now tries to connect to another ip it seems
[19:47:49] <jamesd> DoYouKnow, just remember if the drive dies, your data is gone...   best to use 2 or more drives so your data has a bit of safety with raidz or mirroring.
[19:48:10] <wesolows> unless you use PsychicZFS
[19:48:22] <kaiwai> LLcoolM: still there?
[19:48:29] <wesolows> which "knows" what your data was supposed to be, and can thus recover it even if all copies of it are gone
[19:48:37] <kaiwai> LLcoolM: here is a place you can download it from: http://grit.uni-weimar.de/~peter/codec_pack/
[19:48:49] <sommerfeld> ditto blocks for metadata allow zfs to be resiliant against random single-block errors  but nothing other than having multiple drives can protect against the entire drive going away
[19:49:31] <PerterB> ditto blocks for the actual data make sense too if you have no other redundancy
[19:50:08] <_judas_> isn't zfs bad for specific applications like database storage
[19:50:21] <_judas_> is it due to the copy on writes?
[19:50:59] * jamesd debates filing an RFE for the ultimate BOFH  feature for ZFS,   zfs set copies=0  poolname/filesystem  ... no more out of disk space errors, or quota issues for users  then.
[19:51:00] <sommerfeld> database use of zfs (like database use of any other storage) requires careful tuning
[19:52:05] <_judas_> ok
[19:52:50] <g4lt-mordant> _judas_, why are you trying to find the points where zfs isn't indicated?  try it, it it blows chunks, don't use in that application
[19:53:36] <sommerfeld> if it blows chunks for a particular application, tell zfs-discuss about it.
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[19:54:16] <_judas_> sommerfeld: ok
[19:55:41] <sommerfeld> the first suggestion is to match the zfs blocksize to the size of random writes performed by the database before creating the database files.
[19:56:18] <_judas_> yah, that makes sense
[19:57:13] <_judas_> how about when files are modified like indexes, arent' different versions retained as a zfs feature
[19:57:28] <sommerfeld> that's under your control.
[19:57:30] <_judas_> i guess that can be disabled too
[19:57:34] <_judas_> ok
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[19:58:02] <sommerfeld> snapshots aren't created by default; you have to specifically invoke "zfs snapshot"
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[19:59:27] <sommerfeld> (tim foster's zfs-auto-snapshot lets you automate time-based snapshots it but you pick the policy)
[20:00:15] <CIA-26> arutz: 6447898 VIS EDGE instruction emulation does not check pstate.AM correctly
[20:01:21] <DoYouKnow> jamesd: ok. I have a laptop with only a single HDD slot I believe
[20:01:47] <DoYouKnow> I could use USB I suppose, but that would make things bulky
[20:02:03] <DoYouKnow> unless I get a tiny drive
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[20:04:55] <nachox> jamesd: bah, remount it read only :)
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[20:05:01] <lucky_luck> _judas thanks, I-ve installed opensolaris again ..... now I try to configure ethernet
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[20:06:49] <Fish-> hello
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[20:37:02] <serenity_> anyone here with knowledge about ipfilter and NAT? I have problems with NATed connections (TCP) disconnecting randomly since I upgraded to Solaris 10u4 (which uses the new packet filter hooks)... Same issue in SX, which is why I'm asking here (most S10 users haven't upgraded yet I guess)
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[20:40:20] <the-decider> I had a lot of probems with NAT with the ipfilter that was included in Solaris... Ended up pulling down the source for the latest and greatest from coombs and building that.  Worked like a charm.
[20:41:08] <serenity_> yeah, actually I did that too, but it won't build now that the hooks are in, it seems... did you built it under SX/u4 or "old" S10?
[20:41:25] <the-decider> u3.
[20:41:37] <the-decider> Yeah, the new hooks change all.
[20:42:05] <elektronkind> tarzan like hoooks
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[20:47:23] <g4lt-mordant> thanks for reminding me to set nodename today, the-decider
[20:48:10] <the-decider> g4lt-mordant: eh?
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[20:49:11] <g4lt-mordant> grep "nat" && echo "set /etc/nodename today, dummy"
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[21:03:00] <DoYouKnow> what is a hook?
[21:04:39] <the-decider> DoYouKnow: yarr!  There be many kinds of hooks me matey.  Like dis here hook on the end of me arrrrrm.
[21:04:52] <PerterB> "a catchy musical passage"
[21:04:58] <DoYouKnow> lol
[21:05:07] <the-decider> but the hooks we're talking about are the various in-kernel networking interfaces.
[21:05:33] <the-decider> u4 introduced changes -- primarily to support exclusive-IP zones -- which really shook things up.
[21:05:59] <the-decider> Especially kernel modules which had been using what were considered 'private' calls they shouldn't have been using to begin with.
[21:06:45] <serenity_> which is odd, since AFAIK the ipfilter author works for Sun... ?
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[21:07:15] <the-decider> I'm just guessing that the ipfilter changes in the Solaris code haven't been backported to his tree
[21:08:57] <DoYouKnow> it would be nice if there were an easy way to convert 32-bit windows drivers all the way to 64-bit native solaris drivers using ndiscvt
[21:09:39] <sommerfeld> it would be nicer if you didn't need to do that.
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[21:10:15] <DoYouKnow> a lot of the broadcoms only work on 32-bit solaris
[21:10:33] <gdamore> it would be nicer if people would just stop buying broadcom's crap.
[21:11:05] <gdamore> one of the reasons, I've been told, that they don't port their drivers is that they are so crappily written that they don't think they can do it without a complete rewrite
[21:11:26] <gdamore> and, apparently, they don't even have internal docs for their wifi parts... the code is the documentation
[21:11:37] <the-decider> if a vendor's hardware is such utter trash that it requires them to keep their driver source closed so you don't see how bad it really is, they really should find a different line of bidnezz.  Possibly gambling.
[21:11:49] <DoYouKnow> that's ludicris
[21:12:36] <DoYouKnow> but I believe it
[21:12:39] <the-decider> ...no, they've gone directly to plaid.
[21:12:50] <gdamore> they have no interest in supporting anything else... they get tons of money from Wintel, and they don't give a crap about anything else.
[21:13:08] <gdamore> (although isn't there a closed source Loonix driver now?)
[21:13:17] <the-decider> ...so they can make crap-ass hardware, slap a bandaid of driver on it, and there ya go.
[21:13:18] <gdamore> (they didn't used to have even that.)
[21:13:41] <DoYouKnow> yeah, I was just using it before I installed solaris. you need to extract the firmware from existing drivers, put it in /lib/firmware, and enable broadcom support in the kernel
[21:13:47] <gdamore> the-decider: a substantial portion of my career has been spent writing software workarounds for hardware bugs... :-)
[21:14:15] <the-decider> gdamore: its either that or soldering jumpers on to traces. ;)
[21:14:43] <gdamore> yeah, i've got some boards that have so many thin wires soldered on them they look postively festive.
[21:15:00] <DoYouKnow> even then around a similar PC in our home network, I can't get a connection for some reason. I don't know if it's my linux or my sister's windows
[21:15:03] <gdamore> those were early generation Tadpole boards, though
[21:15:15] <DoYouKnow> but I haven't had the same problem around macs at school
[21:15:24] <DoYouKnow> which are also using wireless
[21:15:25] <gdamore> what's funny is some portions of broadcom are very clueful, and make good products.
[21:15:49] <gdamore> the crypto division was quite good.  and the ethernet division is clueful.  I don't think the WLAN group has much clue though.
[21:16:03] <kaiwai> gdamore: their old server works were nice chipsets
[21:16:49] <the-decider> there seems to be an attitude of "smoke and mirrors" when it comes to wifi chipsets.  That's not just a broadcom issue.
[21:17:02] <gdamore> a lot of times you don't realize what's a good chipset or not, until you spend time with the code.... or try to write a driver for one of the chips. ;-)
[21:17:17] <kaiwai> hmm, it appears that Apple isn't using them any more for their stuff, IIRC they use Atheros now
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[21:17:58] <serenity_> yup, at least the macbook pros use atheros chips
[21:18:15] <kaiwai> too bad more laptop vendors don't use them
[21:18:20] * pjd- implemented raid5 prototype for ZFS and is about to see random parallel read performance compared to raidz.
[21:20:39] <gdamore> most laptop vendors that use Intel use Centrino...
[21:20:57] <trochej> pjd-: You talk freebsd?
[21:20:58] <kaiwai> yeap, and I avoid AMD like the plague because most of them use Broadcom
[21:21:03] <gdamore> I'd avoid AMD laptops these days... too much power consumption, ATI is unfriendly, and so is borgcom.
[21:21:21] <kaiwai> true, and there is the Ati factor
[21:21:35] <trochej> And don't forget ati, too
[21:22:08] <kaiwai> ati/amd are one company after all
[21:22:24] <gdamore> so, if buying a laptop, don't use an AMD based design.  Use an intel one.
[21:22:40] <pjd-> trochej: Im going to try it on FreeBSD, yes.
[21:22:48] * gdamore points out that Intel is paying for a portion of his salary, in the spirit of full disclosure.
[21:23:04] <kaiwai> yeap, the new intel graphics chips are looking quite nice; I avoided it this time around due to a negative experience with the old 810
[21:23:08] <richlowe> gdamore: shill! ;)
[21:23:25] <kaiwai> gdamore: well, even so, Intel still do make some damn nice things
[21:23:54] <kaiwai> and when it comes to stepping up to the crease and opening their code, they do so without the ballsing around
[21:24:07] <gdamore> heh.  I still prefer SPARC achitecturally.  but the latest Core designs are quite nice, indeed.
[21:24:24] <gdamore> Intel used to be *very* closed mouth.
[21:24:31] <gdamore> but they've gotten a lot better.
[21:24:34] <kaiwai> well, one could strap SPARC to the Core architecture and have a nice processor of both worlds
[21:24:54] <kaiwai> *sparc isa
[21:25:06] * gdamore still recalls having an Intel NDA document that threatened physical dismemberment if the document was not returned back to Intel without photocopying, etc.
[21:25:19] <kaiwai> lol
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[21:25:55] <gdamore> there's too much different... the sparc folks invested "differently" than Intel did.  Different focus.
[21:25:56] <kaiwai> I think intel realises that they the capacity of out manufacturing rivals rather than needing to have heaps of secret sauce
[21:26:48] <kaiwai> gdacore: true; and mind you, this Core 2 laptop is rocket fast, makes my old Core laptop perform like a heap-o-crap
[21:26:59] <flyingparchment> does zfs's clever cache flushing play well with battery-backed raid arrays, or will it try to flush the entire cache too?  (if so, can i stop it doing it?)
[21:27:00] <gdamore> I think Intel just woke up and realized that there was a huge potential for non-Windows platforms sales they were losing.  The Apple deal was the first sign of this.
[21:27:24] <gdamore> Once the M$/Intel partnership broke, Intel started to see that it made sense to play nice with the other kids, too.
[21:27:46] <richlowe> flyingparchment: from memory, that depends on the array?
[21:28:03] <richlowe> I vaguely recall seeing a post on zfs-discuss where the write cache flush would flush the whole thing, anyway.
[21:28:16] <kaiwai> gdamore: yeah, hopefully Intel will help with wpa and their wireless drivers on Solaris
[21:28:30] <gdamore> IIRC, they are doing just that.
[21:29:08] <kaiwai> i think the relationship really nose dived when AMD took the stand in the Microsoft trial in Microsofts defence, and in return Microsoft heavily promoted AMD products
[21:29:17] *** alanc-away is now known as alanc
[21:31:52] <kaiwai> hence I find it funny when Linux fanboys jump around AMD like kiddies around a ginger bread house - ignoring the evil which lies inside
[21:34:29] <trochej> kaiwai: I find it funny when people around speak of evil, when treating big corporations :)
[21:34:52] <trochej> okay
[21:34:55] <trochej> Time to hit the bed.
[21:35:00] <trochej> I yet have abook to read.
[21:35:03] <trochej> 'night
[21:36:06] <kaiwai> good night trochej
[21:36:09] <kaiwai> sleep tight
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[22:00:15] <CIA-26> gd78059: 6508900 mac: WARNING: i_mac_notify(<network instance>, 0x3): taskq dispatch failed" messages during stress
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[22:00:26] <CIA-26> raf: 6598201 Fix for 6586967 broke the unreliable signal(3c) interface
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[22:12:40] <DoYouKnow> 1TB drives
[22:12:49] <the-decider> well, it was already unreliable...
[22:13:25] <DoYouKnow> I was just going to say that 1 TB drives are getting cheaper
[22:13:34] <DoYouKnow> at least, I would think so
[22:13:40] <DoYouKnow> they've been out for a little while
[22:15:02] <sommerfeld> the-decider: it was reliably unreliable in a certain way.
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[22:19:30] <holcomb> who keeps unplugging docs.sun.com?
[22:19:59] <DoYouKnow> the guy with the mullet
[22:20:04] <holcomb> i knew it
[22:20:14] * holcomb digs through the drawer for some scissors
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[22:22:49] <slaq> hi guys
[22:23:56] <slaq> i'm getting my feet wet with solaris (opensolaris) and would like to ask some basic questions
[22:24:07] <slaq> coming from linux i wonder how package management works in solaris
[22:24:23] <slaq> i found blastwave/pkg-get but that seems to be inofficial stuff
[22:24:47] <slaq> is it common practice to use pkg-get or how do people generally manage dependencies etc.?
[22:25:00] <slaq> for a start, how do i install the gnu toolchain to get non-broken dd, tar etc.?
[22:25:21] <nachox> how exactly are those broken?
[22:25:38] <richlowe> GNU tar is there already.
[22:25:41] <slaq> try working with files or parameters (in the dd case) above 2G
[22:25:46] <richlowe> /usr/sfw/bin/gtar
[22:25:49] <nachox> and gnu tar IS broken :P
[22:25:51] <Auralis> they are not brocken, just not the same as the gnu stuff
[22:26:00] <richlowe> GNU dd is there in recent builds too, in /usr/gnu
[22:26:19] <slaq> ok, didnt mean to offend anyone, maybe i'm wrong about "broken". lets call them "unfamilar" for me :)
[22:26:48] <richlowe> and dd looks to be largefile aware.
[22:26:58] <richlowe> (at least, largefile(5) claims it is)
[22:27:49] <slaq> hmm, maybe i did something wrong but a few days ago we tried something like dd if=/dev/zero of=/tmp/test bs=100M count=500 and it created very small files
[22:28:03] <slaq> i dont recall the exact figures (and i think the "M" suffix didnt work altogether)
[22:28:04] <nachox> i think i actually used dd to get a dvd image
[22:28:07] <slaq> that was on solaris 10 (not opensolaris)
[22:28:34] <slaq> anyways, didnt mean to bash dd or anything..
[22:29:36] <PerterB> did you not get an error message like: dd: bad numeric argument: "100M"
[22:29:39] <slaq> my real question is: whats the proper way to install software, manage dependencies and maybe even clone existing systems?  i saw mentions of "JumpStart", but is there a way to keep a number of solaris hosts updated and in sync package-wise? (like with a debian pkg mirror)
[22:30:24] <slaq> PerterB, yes, i think we basically used numeric values then and finally noticed that it created too small files (thats why assume there was an int overflow)
[22:30:43] <slaq> PerterB, we finally worked around it by refactoring to smaller values for bs and count
[22:31:59] <slaq> i apologize for the "broken" statement, probably a bit harsh way to introduce myself :\
[22:32:29] <PerterB> it's not an overflow, it's an unsupported suffix - I can't remember what POSIX says, but I have a feeling 'm' is another GNU extention
[22:32:57] <nachox> i think so, but you should really check the man page
[22:32:58] <slaq> PerterB, yes. as said, we tried without the suffix (bs=104857600) and then it would create too small files
[22:33:28] <slaq> anyone care to answer my other question or point me to a faq? :)
[22:34:16] <PerterB> hmm, that's possibly a bug although 100M is kind of an unusual block size :)
[22:34:28] <PerterB> as for package management, opinions vary
[22:34:49] <flyingparchment> if you want to create large empty files, use mkfile
[22:35:13] <slaq> flyingparchment, we were testing our new SAN so we really wanted to write, not seek :)
[22:36:29] <nachox> you can point pkgadd to an url and you can use pkgadd to install a package :)
[22:37:04] <slaq> is there any documentation/tutorial about the package management in solaris?  my google searches found surprisingly little :\
[22:37:32] <nachox> sure, check docs.sun.com
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[22:37:56] <elektronkind> and the pkgadd man page
[22:38:04] <elektronkind> note the contents of the See Also section in it
[22:38:11] <slaq> okay thx so far
[22:38:14] <nachox> i dont remember whether it is in the basic or advanced admin guide
[22:38:29] <nachox> but it is in one of those
[22:38:57] <slaq> dang, the sun site is amazingly slow for me right now
[22:39:23] <nachox> docs.sun.com? ... it has it's days
[22:39:36] <palowoda> The new compiz 0.5.2 is slick.  http://blogs.sun.com/erwann/entry/3d_desktop_compiz_fusion_0
[22:40:11] <nachox> nod, it is actually really cool
[22:40:53] <palowoda> Enabled every feature I could on it. No crashes with build 71 and nvidia cards.
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[22:41:46] <nachox> palowoda, we only need to stab the opposing party at the jds community to get it integrated :P
[22:47:11] * alanc will have to do penance for filing a closed PSARC case...
[22:47:50] <nachox> that is so not opensource, shame on you
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[22:48:14] <flyingparchment> oh, you mean a not-open case.. i was wondering why you'd file a case that was closed from the beginning :)
[22:48:15] <alanc> yeah well, we still have a few bits of non-opensource code to deal with
[22:48:26] <hrlmec> Is it possible to configure a zone to use a raw disk slice?
[22:49:23] <DoYouKnow> blah
[22:49:26] <DoYouKnow> how long for ati drivers?
[22:49:31] <sommerfeld> flyingparchment: well, cases which qualify for self-review start life as "closed"
[22:49:43] <jamesd> DoYouKnow, ask AMD  or ATI
[22:49:47] * DoYouKnow has an ATI Radeon Xpress 200M
[22:50:17] <jamesd> sends his condolances to  DoYouKnow
[22:51:03] <alanc> supposedly, code drops from ATI to Xorg start next week
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[22:52:02] <alanc> according to an actual Xorg/DRI developer we know, who is working with them: http://airlied.livejournal.com/50187.html
[22:54:41] <DoYouKnow> ok
[22:54:49] <DoYouKnow> so they aren't releasing 3d drivers anytime soon
[22:55:24] <alanc> they won't be releasing their existing 3D driver, just specs so that a new one can be written
[22:56:02] <nachox> i wonder what pushed them to do that
[22:57:25] <alanc> I know we've pushed a bit
[22:57:51] <alanc> but their announcement said that their planned fusion of AMD CPU and ATI GPU into a single chip meant they'd have to be more open
[22:58:33] <alanc> they're going to talk more at the X.Org Developer Summit in the UK next week - one of the other guys from my group will be there to report back
[22:59:27] <nachox> they are also assigning devels to xorg?
[22:59:53] <alanc> not sure
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[23:17:17] <toto> hi
[23:17:23] <toto> how are you?
[23:17:42] <DoYouKnow> hi toto
[23:18:19] <toto> it's the first time i have install solaris
[23:19:01] <toto> and first time i go on irc, i would like a little helpp please
[23:19:09] <toto> could you help me?
[23:19:22] <DoYouKnow> sure, I just installed it myself
[23:19:32] <DoYouKnow> this was like my 2nd or 3rd time doing it
[23:19:45] <toto> i know a little debian
[23:20:00] <toto> but i'm lost on solaris,
[23:20:10] <toto> the java interface on solaris 10 is excellent
[23:20:24] <toto> i have install ssolaris in vmware and i won't haveeeee enough disk space
[23:20:35] <toto> i have install about 4 go
[23:20:53] <DoYouKnow> try selecting less packages
[23:20:53] <toto> but i have to desinstall application like multimedia and staroffice
[23:21:04] <DoYouKnow> no, you won't
[23:21:08] <DoYouKnow> just click "skip"
[23:21:10] <DoYouKnow> and reboot
[23:21:31] <toto> the fact is that now i have a full    et beautiful solaris
[23:21:35] <DoYouKnow> in setup, click skip if you don't have enough space to install the other CDs
[23:21:42] <toto> and to have more space
[23:21:47] <toto> now i want to remove
[23:22:00] <toto> staroffice and multimedia like real    playerr
[23:22:22] <toto> (i have tried "network install but it was 500 mo and i was lost without gnomee)
[23:22:41] <toto> so i have chosen a "customer" or client install with 3.5 go
[23:23:17] <toto> i was thinking about a add remove application like ubuntu but i think there's nothing something like that
[23:23:44] <toto> is there a graphic util for me to remove sfew package or can you tell me few commands to remove havy application?
[23:24:04] <toto> pkgrm staroffice to remove staroffice?
[23:24:07] <DoYouKnow> try inserting the CD and running setup
[23:24:23] <DoYouKnow> while in X-Window
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[23:24:39] <DoYouKnow> the CD with software you want to remove
[23:24:59] <DoYouKnow> so if you want to remove everything on CD #3, insert CD-3 and run setup to remove the packages on cd3
[23:25:20] <DoYouKnow> let me check if that works
[23:25:28] <toto> i have an iso of dvd solaaaris 10
[23:26:52] <toto> no that don't work
[23:27:07] <toto> i have graphically clik on installer.sh
[23:27:21] <toto> and chose run in terminal and in graphic interface it don't work
[23:27:37] <DoYouKnow> system is locking up on me
[23:27:38] <DoYouKnow> lol
[23:27:45] <toto> how can i see me used pourcentage hard disk?
[23:27:58] <toto> i tried "df"
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[23:30:48] <DoYouKnow> ok back
[23:30:57] <DoYouKnow> had to quit X and log back in
[23:31:35] <toto> yeah
[23:31:53] <toto> how do you find a file?
[23:32:00] <toto> i write "locate"
[23:32:05] <toto> but it's unknown
[23:33:35] <asyd> you can install locate if you really need it, or use find / grep / ls, regarding what file you're looking for
[23:33:50] <alanc> toto: "df -h" to see percentage used
[23:34:00] <toto> gnome viewer for pdf  is bad
[23:34:17] <toto> i downloaded a pdf and it's not good lisible, font are not fine at all
[23:34:33] <flyingparchment> toto: install xpdf, the one and only X pdf viewer
[23:35:14] <toto> how can i see the help for df? i tried "df --help"
[23:35:21] <alanc> toto: running Solaris 10?   there's a fix for that - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/2007/08/fixed-funny-fonts-in-gpdf.html shows it
[23:35:24] <toto> or "man df" but it's not working
[23:35:24] <alanc> "man df"
[23:36:05] <toto> "no manual enntry for df
[23:36:09] <alanc> did you not install man pages?   (they're not in "End User", only "Developer" or "Full" installs)
[23:36:26] <alanc> man pages are also on http://docs.sun.com/
[23:36:32] <toto> "pkgadd man" that's it?
[23:36:42] <nachox> that is weird, end users dont need man pages?
[23:36:53] <toto> yes it'ssss weird
[23:37:02] <richlowe> nachox: it's bloody stupid, but it's always been that way.
[23:37:05] <flyingparchment> nachox: "end user" is a really old consolidation, when end users would have printed manuals and a site admin :)
[23:37:17] <toto> i'm surprised of solaris because
[23:37:24] <toto> i have install solaris for work
[23:37:31] <toto> to trry something with a database
[23:37:44] <toto> i just needed a graphic solaris but not the application
[23:37:55] <toto> i trie nettwrok 500 mo but it wasn't graphic
[23:37:58] <alanc> it's stupid, and I hope between the new install and new packaging, the old user/developer/full clusters get refined
[23:38:05] <toto> so i tried end user
[23:38:06] <nachox> please
[23:38:21] <toto> but when a i saw the big list of packet i have installed
[23:38:38] <toto> i just needed a minimum install with gnone or a server X
[23:38:46] <alanc> it's a hold over from when "end user" was 'fits on a typical Sparc 1 with 105Mb hard disk'
[23:39:06] <toto> now my vmware of 5 Go had 93% used
[23:39:20] <toto> (i have downloded Sysbase and something else)
[23:39:36] <toto> but i don't have enough space to install a heavy application like oracle and like that
[23:39:56] <PerterB> "minimum install" and "gnome"... those are somewhat orthogonal
[23:40:18] <toto> i should have done that before...
[23:41:05] <nachox> hehe
[23:41:35] <nachox> remove staroffice
[23:41:49] <nachox> and all the drives you installed but dont need
[23:41:59] <toto> pkgrm staroffice?
[23:42:08] <flyingparchment> you can remove appserver and the iplanet stuff too
[23:42:24] <nachox> no, i dont remember the name of the package
[23:43:07] <nachox> flyingparchment, i thought IPLT* were in extra
[23:43:54] <PerterB> pkginfo | grep SUNWstaroffice | awk '{print $2}' | xargs pkgrm, or so
[23:44:09] <flyingparchment> that's odd, i have /usr/appserver installed, but nothing owns the files in it
[23:44:45] <richlowe> flyingparchment: SUNWasu?
[23:44:46] <flyingparchment> oh wait, pkgchk needs a full path
[23:45:14] <richlowe> though now I'm wondering what the point of /usr/appserver/usr-share is
[23:45:15] <flyingparchment> nachox: not sure about the iplt stuff but appserver, iMQ etc. are at least in 'full install'
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[23:47:07] <ylon> I just grabbed b71 and it appears that networking config has changed since the last build I was on b65 I think.
[23:47:17] <ylon> How do you config the network for dhcp in this build?
[23:47:42] <DoYouKnow> will Sun Studio 12 run in opensolaris?
[23:47:55] <nachox> sure
[23:48:01] <ylon> Also, if you add/remove new hardware, etc. how do you refresh the config so that it will detect that and rebuild the boot image or how are supposed to deal with that?
[23:48:08] <nachox> well, in an opensolaris based distro
[23:48:16] <flyingparchment> ylon: touch /reconfigure
[23:48:19] <flyingparchment> ylon: or boot -r
[23:48:42] <ylon> ah, okay, thanks flyingparchment; I was thinking that there was a command to run in failsafe
[23:48:44] <flyingparchment> ylon: svcadm disable network/physical:nwam; svcadm enable network/physical:default; # now you have the old network config back
[23:48:58] <flyingparchment> ylon: there is devfsadm if you're doing hot-plug and don't want to reboot
[23:49:00] <Pietro_S> DoYouKnow: but if you mean if studio12 can compile latest opensolaris, I fear answer is no
[23:49:34] <ylon> thanks for that; what if you want to use the new "magic" conf; is here a better way to config networking now?
[23:51:35] <DoYouKnow> ok
[23:51:40] <DoYouKnow> that seems to confirm what I read
[23:52:16] <DoYouKnow> 11 will though
[23:52:35] <nachox> you can try and compile it... and fix it if you want, i'm sure bug reports are appreciated
[23:52:36] <toto> i have done a "pkginfo | grep gimp" to remove the gimp
[23:52:43] <toto> and i just found a driver for impression
[23:52:44] <DoYouKnow> ok
[23:52:59] <toto> i'm lost on solaris, how to remove the gimp for example
[23:53:31] <jamesd> toto  man  pkgrm  ... the better question is why did you install it ;-)
[23:53:43] <wesolows> actually a better question is why remove it?
[23:53:56] <wesolows> software that's not being used and is not setuid does no possible harm
[23:54:03] <DoYouKnow> wesolows: he's out of disk space
[23:54:08] <nachox> he needs the space
[23:54:10] <toto> 96%
[23:54:12] <toto> on vmware
[23:54:16] <elektronkind> space is the place
[23:54:17] <wesolows> wow...out of disk space...bizarre
[23:54:18] <toto> and i have to install oracle
[23:54:23] <wesolows> oh, vmware...now it makes sense
[23:54:24] <nachox> lol
[23:54:29] <toto> and sybase and somethink like that
[23:54:34] <stevel> wesolows: because nobody likes having a gimp around
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[23:54:36] <toto> on vmware i chosen 5 go
[23:54:46] <wesolows> stevel: especially wilbur
[23:54:53] <toto> but i didn't fix it
[23:55:00] <jamesd> wesolows, no everyone has  hba connected iscsi provided by a thumper. ;-)
[23:55:01] <toto> i have chosen on windows it grow
[23:55:06] <stevel> i was thinking of pulp fiction's gimp
[23:55:11] <toto> but a disk is seen like 5 go
[23:55:12] <stevel> i'll take wilbur over that guy
[23:55:58] <toto> in faccct i chosen 4 go, i was thinking like debian and easy to install
[23:55:59] <nachox> removing unused drivers is also ok even if you dont need the space and you're lazy enough not to see what patches you're applying :)
[23:56:17] <trygvis> hmm .. so snmpdx is obsolete now.
[23:56:25] <trygvis> is the net-snmp suppliec smf-ified?
[23:56:28] <toto> i'm noob so i don't know exactly whhat to remove
[23:56:37] <toto> i just want to remove big application kike staroffice
[23:56:41] <toto> realplayer
[23:56:43] <toto> and the gimp
[23:56:56] <jamesd> toto add  2-3 virtual drives the vhost,  and play with ZFS, you can then mv  /opt  /usr/local   /usr/sfw  to zfs
[23:57:33] <nachox> toto, if you just want to play around with opensolaris and are too used to debian, maybe you should try nexenta, an opensolaris variation of ubuntu
[23:58:03] <toto> it would be good for my job to try solaris
[23:58:07] <toto> :)
[23:58:34] <toto> but i'm noob on unix for the moment so i don't mind trying something
[23:58:49] <toto> if it's not too much complicated





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