[00:01:04] <dlg> morn
[00:01:16] <rikochet> +ing
[00:01:19] <rikochet> :)
[00:01:35] <dlg> uhuh
[00:02:13] <tomww> !coffman
[00:03:59] <tomww> coffman: yes, would really like to have urxvt :-)
[00:04:06] <coffman> tomww: so
[00:04:11] <coffman> tomww: what fails?
[00:06:07] <nrubsig> Oh my chickengod... the spammers start to use innovative email names...
[00:06:10] <nrubsig> ... oooxxxeee.oooxxxeeeexx at laposte dot net
[00:08:37] <wesolows> the best way to solve that is not with new filters, though that may hide the problem a bit.  Instead, find out who buys spamvertised products and kill them.
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[00:11:44] <nrubsig> wesolows: I vote to legalise the IWS2000 to fight the war against terrorSpammers!
[00:12:42] <nrubsig> wesolows: No spammer will surive this: http://www.steyr-aug.com/amr.htm
[00:14:05] <Auralis> nrubsig: +10
[00:14:36] <nrubsig> Also cool to clear mines.
[00:14:49] <Auralis> best AMr rifle in the world
[00:15:22] <nrubsig> And helped a lot to get rid of harassment by local wanna-be snipers in bosnia - one demo of the firepower and the harassment ceased immediately... =:-)
[00:15:50] <Auralis> someone finaly started to actuall use it?
[00:16:22] <nrubsig> Auralis: British and germans evaluated it at least and tested it in bosnia and now in afganistan
[00:16:48] <Auralis> ah good good. its way to good to be forgotten
[00:17:16] <nrubsig> yeah... nice punch.
[00:17:34] <Auralis> yup, twice that of a .50 bmg
[00:17:45] <nrubsig> and less recoil.
[00:18:08] <Auralis> and better acuracy and better penetration
[00:18:09] <nrubsig> 55kg of female soldier can handle it easily :-)
[00:18:50] <nrubsig> problem is that ammo is expensive and that it weights a lot.
[00:19:03] <Auralis> yeah
[00:19:10] <nrubsig> and no silencer and no effective flash suppessor (yet)
[00:19:17] <nrubsig> both are in work
[00:21:24] <Auralis> sweet
[00:21:27] <nrubsig> and bigger catriges would be nice
[00:22:29] <coffman> i dont thing you need more then one bullet of those
[00:22:41] <Auralis> you don't
[00:23:23] <nrubsig> coffman: no, but you may not want to reload while tracking multiple targets in the same area.
[00:24:06] <nrubsig> coffman: and you may miss moving targets at those distances, e.g. at 1000m it's hard to hit a small target.
[00:24:25] <nrubsig> e.g. countersniper operations (but the AMR was never designed for that anyway)
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[00:24:35] <Auralis> rights, its primary AMR
[00:25:11] <nrubsig> Auralis: well, the official comment is the ammo price. Too expensive to hunt  humans with that...
[00:25:18] <Auralis> but then its definition of a destroyable target is pretty broad. can shot down a Apache in a single hit
[00:25:20] <nrubsig> (no comment on that bullsh*t)
[00:25:22] <coffman> pff, load it with some uran based stuff or so
[00:25:35] <Auralis> coffman: it fires tungsten APFSDS ammo
[00:25:41] <Auralis> same stuff as tanks use
[00:25:48] <Auralis> just smaller
[00:25:53] * steleman watches this weapons discussion in dismay
[00:26:53] <nrubsig> steleman: technically I would agree... but I've seen the results of the demo in bosnia... suddenly noone wanted to mess with the german contingent there anymore...
[00:27:18] <nrubsig> steleman: it pi**sed off lots of wanna-be-warriors off
[00:27:22] <steleman> nrubsig: i don't think it's a huge surprise that "noone wants to mess with the German contingent" :-)
[00:27:44] <Auralis> yeah, hard to argue with a rifle that shots stright throug an APc at a lick
[00:28:23] <coffman> n8
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[00:29:27] <nrubsig> Auralis: well, technically the "demo" was to shoot at a wrecked cars engine... and the projetile went through car's skin, engine and the brick wall behind it.
[00:29:45] <nrubsig> at 400m range
[00:30:09] * Auralis nods
[00:30:30] <Auralis> no surprise
[00:30:37] <nrubsig> .50 BMG would've been stuck in the brick wall alone.
[00:32:08] <Auralis> heh
[00:32:17] <nrubsig> Maybe most humiliating for the locals was that the soldier was female and thin like a bread... :-)
[00:32:28] <Auralis> lol
[00:32:51] <g4lt-sb100> nrubsig, depends on the projectile.  .50BMG AP woulkd have blown throuhg it and not even slowed
[00:33:24] <Auralis> g4lt-sb100:  the amr has over twice the muzzle energie of the best .50 and is an APFSDs projectile to boot
[00:33:30] <g4lt-sb100> of course, my favorie USN gun was the 25MM bushmaster ;)
[00:33:57] <g4lt-sb100> Auralis, well, you also have to remember, the .50 BMG to the USN is a "light weapon"
[00:34:12] <rikochet> ^-^
[00:35:53] <Auralis> the amr is not really much bigger
[00:36:49] <g4lt-sb100> right.  now fire a 3" DU dart from a 5"/54 and see what survives
[00:37:15] <Auralis> that is not a rifle
[00:37:31] <Auralis> the amr is a rifle
[00:38:04] <g4lt-sb100> technically, neither is the .50BMG in USN hands.  it's pintle mounted
[00:38:49] <g4lt-sb100> rifles are pretty much limited to .308" M14s, verything else is mounted
[00:39:01] * rikochet sees how this pertains to Solaris
[00:40:08] <g4lt-sb100> yes, it's the nextgen blackbox: luser elimination platform
[00:40:27] <Auralis> its the active antispam filter
[00:40:34] <rikochet> x.x
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[01:02:06] <mick_work> ok, SXDE installed w/o an error (woot!)
[01:02:10] <mick_work> now for the reboot
[01:02:15] * mick_work crosses fingers
[01:04:02] * rikochet shoots the target created from mick_work's fingers
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[01:23:57] <tomww> dangerous channel this day, isn't it :-)
[01:25:04] <nrubsig> tomww: g4lt-sb100 started to use the bushmaster in this channel!
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[01:31:02] <tomww> yes, that's why I prepare pulseaudio for networked audio. whe he wanders through our office eventually, I can fire up different guns from different workstations and escape in the toher direction...
[01:31:21] <tomww> s/whe/when/
[01:31:59] <tomww> I'll escape into bed for now. g'n8 all.
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[01:40:13] <nrubsig> Tpenta: Hi!
[01:41:03] <nrubsig> Tpenta: http://blogs.sun.com/tpenta/entry/my_dad_by_lucy_age ... nice... :-)
[01:41:10] <Tpenta> :)
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[01:42:40] <nrubsig> Tpenta: ----> /msg
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[01:43:51] <nrubsig> Tpenta: I can't read any messages from you until you register against "nickserv" ... ;-(
[01:44:11] <Tpenta> i'm not sending a y yet, i'm going for coffee
[01:44:14] <Doc> Sun Microsoft?
[01:45:58] <nrubsig> Doc: Yeah, M$ is that omnipresent that it messes with the view of reality of our kids!
[01:46:05] <nrubsig> Kill M$!!
[01:46:26] <nrubsig> Tpenta: my question would be whether you'd be interested to sign up for http://opensolaris.org/os/community/on/crt/advocates/
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[01:50:55] <jmcp> nrubsig: becoming an ON Advocate is not an easy thing
[01:51:12] <nrubsig> grumpf
[01:51:22] <wesolows> becoming a sponsor is not too hard though
[01:51:30] <jmcp> nrubsig: just trying to get your expectations in order
[01:51:33] <jmcp> hi keith
[01:51:33] <wesolows> but the intern sponsor still needs a regular one to work with
[01:51:36] <wesolows> hiya
[01:51:51] <vmlemon> nrubsig: in that it makes them believe that "Windows is the computer" and "only Microsoft makes OSes"?
[01:52:56] <nrubsig> jmcp: I am only seeking (new) victims for my putbacks. I am drowing in patches and loose my... my... thing (<--- better vocabulary wanted) to write new ones
[01:53:04] <nrubsig> faith ?
[01:53:09] <nrubsig> desire ?
[01:53:10] <jmcp> inspiration
[01:53:30] <vmlemon> motivation?
[01:53:40] <g4lt-sb100> religion?
[01:53:51] <g4lt-sb100> ;P
[01:54:20] <nrubsig> "motivation", e.g. what's the point of creating patches when noone wants them.
[01:54:38] <wesolows> well, two counters to that, then
[01:54:47] <wesolows> first, if *you* want them, shouldn't that be enough?
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[01:55:10] <nrubsig> Half my work already rots in http://www.opensolaris.org/os/bug_reports/request_sponsor/
[01:55:23] <wesolows> second, don't assume that because no one has time to sponsor them that no one wants them.  They're unrelated.  At most, you might conclude that none of the sponsors want them, but even that's going too far since mostly we just don't have time.
[01:55:32] <nrubsig> wesolows: yes... but writing giant patches and then letting from rot around isn't much fun.
[01:55:38] <wesolows> Agree completely.
[01:55:47] <wesolows> I was wondering about some carrot+stick motivation for sponsors
[01:56:23] <nrubsig> wesolows: I already filed _easy_ things like the bldenv cleanup or the ksh93-integratoin demo code update and I don't even find sponsors for that stuff. Both is easy.
[01:56:30] <wesolows> something like if a request goes more than 4 weeks without a sponsor, the contributor gets to log into a heavily restricted machine on the SWAN and do the RTI and putback process directly.
[01:58:01] <wesolows> the alternative is to assign new sponsor requests randomly and/or by field of expertise rather than waiting for someone to accept them, and find a way to compensate sponsors for their time.
[01:58:15] <nrubsig> cookies ?
[01:58:24] <wesolows> no, way too little
[01:58:39] * nrubsig is feared for making cookies or cakes for meetings.
[01:58:43] <wesolows> an extra $200 might be reasonable
[01:58:48] <nrubsig> "fresh from the oven"
[01:59:05] <wesolows> or something to compensate their manager (since at this moment all sponsors have to be on the SWAN) for the lost time
[01:59:12] <nrubsig> wesolows: where should that money come from ?
[01:59:37] <wesolows> Sun should pay it, because it's Sun's insistence on housing the gates on its protected network that causes the problem.
[01:59:38] <nrubsig> wesolows: $200 is 2/3 of the money I have for living...
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[02:00:17] <wesolows> though honestly $200 wouldn't even make me think twice; I still just don't have time
[02:00:37] <nrubsig> ;-(
[02:01:03] * nrubsig checks his queue... like it will cost Sun $4000 or more...
[02:01:14] <wesolows> actually it will cost Sun a lot more than that
[02:01:21] <nrubsig> s/like it will/likely it would/
[02:01:39] <wesolows> the actual cost of engineering time is probably more like $150-200/hr
[02:02:07] <nrubsig> groan
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[02:02:53] <nrubsig> wesolows: if I count that together I wasted at least $20000 due to bad project management for the ksh93-integration project... ;-(
[02:03:21] <wesolows> it's ok; once you face that it becomes obvious that the economics of it make the sponsor process completely impractical.  There's just not enough value in the tasks needed to be a sponsor to assign them to hightly paid engineers.  We need to eliminate the whole thing so that everyone (more or less) can just do it all on their own.
[02:03:44] <wesolows> nrubsig: I believe it.  $20k worth of inefficiency for a small project like that is probably par for the course
[02:04:28] <delewis> why can't Sun setup the gates outside of SWAN?
[02:04:37] <wesolows> they can and will
[02:04:40] <nrubsig> wesolows: well, on the other side Sun's phone bill would be insane (IMO we should've made more phone calls instead of passing everything via email at all costs)
[02:04:43] <wesolows> it's just taken a long time
[02:05:17] <wesolows> but once that's done, there will be webrti to contend with
[02:05:34] <delewis> can webrti not be moved outside of SWAN?
[02:05:43] <wesolows> not in anything like its present form, no
[02:05:58] <wesolows> someone will have to implement a similar thing with open operation in mind
[02:06:58] <delewis> so what makes 'open operation' impossible with webrti?
[02:07:13] <wesolows> I believe it hardcodes a lot of paths and databases on the SWAN
[02:07:28] <delewis> ah.
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[02:37:46] * rikochet is using the /ame command :o
[02:42:19] <mick_work> ok, the box is up - it just says: solaris-devx console login: (and a bunch of "*"s)
[02:42:40] <mick_work> and the system is unresponsive
[02:43:16] <mick_work> boy, i look forward to getting those blade servers ;)
[02:43:42] <mick_work> if this is anything like what i'll be working with -- i'm up for a lot of hell :)
[02:44:31] * mick_work tries the failsafe option
[02:44:47] <jbk> sounds like it's having an issue starting x
[02:45:13] <mick_work> jbk: how do i configure X on SXDE?
[02:45:26] <mick_work> i know how to do this in linux
[02:45:33] <jbk> well it's xorg
[02:45:46] <jbk> so it should be very similar
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[02:47:13] <mick_work> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg :)
[02:47:44] <mick_work> i meant, is there a "tool" in SXDE
[02:48:24] <mick_work> or.... i'll just get a live cd and see what settings they use and cp it over
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[02:58:12] <mick_work> Xorg -configure <--- this works in the rest of the *nix world
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[02:59:01] <mick_work> then again, most of the modern *nix world defaults to bash instead of sh
[02:59:15] <jmcp> mick_work: have you actually *tried* to run Xorg -configure on Solaris?
[02:59:16] <mick_work> and delete != backspace :)
[02:59:28] <mick_work> jmcp: yup - not found
[02:59:36] <jmcp> mick_work: as root?
[02:59:43] <jmcp> how about you check your path, then
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[02:59:52] <jmcp> where would you expect it to be on linux?
[03:00:13] <mick_work>  /usr/bin/Xorg
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[03:00:41] <jmcp> and how about you do a bit of looking around before starting to complain that Solaris ain't just like linux
[03:00:45] <mick_work> and i am missing "whoami" to really tell if i am root - but i presume i am
[03:00:50] <mick_work> the "#" gives it away
[03:00:56] <jmcp>  ls -lart /usr/bin/X*
[03:00:57] <jmcp>    2 lrwxrwxrwx   1 root     root          10 Apr 18 22:33 /usr/bin/X11 -> ../X11/bin/
[03:01:20] <jmcp> whoami is in /usr/ucb
[03:01:25] <Doc> mick: id
[03:01:26] <jmcp> or you could run "who am i"
[03:01:31] <mick_work> ls -lart /usr/bin/X*
[03:01:39] <mick_work> no such file,,,,,
[03:01:48] <Doc> "who am i"  will most likely tell you that you're _not_ root!
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[03:01:57] <richlowe> jmcp: we actually have a whoami in /usr/bin now
[03:01:57] <jmcp> mick_work: let me guess, you did an "end user" cluster installation
[03:01:58] <mick_work> Doc: actually it did
[03:01:59] <richlowe> probably GNU's
[03:02:01] <mick_work> lol :)
[03:02:05] <jmcp> richlowe: darn it, I need to update from 62
[03:02:15] <richlowe> jmcp: Oh, I only just noticed.
[03:02:20] <richlowe> jmcp: you reminded me of a bug that pisses me off :)
[03:02:23] <mick_work> i did a SXDE install (graphical)
[03:02:37] <jmcp> mick_work: you should have a /usr/X11/bin
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[03:02:59] <mick_work> jmcp: and if i don't? :-|
[03:03:13] <jmcp> then you don't have a full installation
[03:03:29] <mick_work> :-|
[03:03:36] <bit2man> I've got a "newb" question or two, that I hope someone can help me with. I'm well founded in Linux, but new to Solaris (and openSolaris) admin stuff.  I did a default install of Solaris10, I think the partitioning is wrong?  When I try to run pprosvc i'm told I don't have enough space for download.
[03:03:45] <bit2man> So first question, where does pprosvc try to download to??
[03:03:51] <mick_work> jmcp: and how can i "fix" this?
[03:04:06] <jmcp> sigh
[03:04:17] <jmcp> which build did you install?
[03:04:18] <rikochet> ... doesn't speak much, eh? ^_^
[03:04:23] <mick_work> somehow i thought that it just install Xorg when you install from the DVD -- especially since it didn't ask any questions
[03:04:36] <mick_work> nevada
[03:05:08] <jmcp> mick_work: nevada is the release, not the build
[03:05:21] <mick_work> the one under the "download" section ;)
[03:05:25] <jmcp> I take it that you installed a Solaris EXpress Developer Edition build?
[03:05:42] * mick_work nods
[03:06:04] <jmcp> mick_work: so what was the title of it
[03:06:10] <jmcp> eg, SXDE 09/07
[03:06:15] <jmcp> or SXDE 05/07
[03:06:16] <jmcp> etc
[03:06:17] <mick_work> hmm, is there something like a "release" file that tells you what you are using?
[03:06:24] <jmcp> yeah /etc/release
[03:06:33] <mick_work> b70
[03:06:41] <jmcp> you could even run that standard unix command called "uname" with a -a argument
[03:06:43] <jmcp> right
[03:07:00] <jmcp> what questions did the installer ask you?
[03:07:09] <mick_work> SunOS 5.1 snv_70....
[03:07:27] <flyingparchment> 5.1, that's nice and old :)
[03:08:07] <mick_work> SXDE just asked if i wanted an interactive install, asked about partition/timezone, then it showed me some pretty stock photos
[03:08:15] <mick_work> then it said "reboot" :)
[03:08:16] <jmcp> right
[03:08:30] <mick_work> SunOS 5.11 sorry - typo
[03:08:55] <jmcp> so you really don't have a /usr/X11/bin at all?
[03:09:04] <mick_work> nope :-(
[03:09:30] <jmcp> how much space does your root partition have in use?
[03:09:31] <mick_work>  /usr/X11 doesn't even exist
[03:10:19] <mick_work>  /dev/dsk/c0d0s0 has 15G - used 5.7 (mounted on /a)
[03:10:40] <jmcp> you're not currently booted into SXDE?
[03:10:49] <mick_work>  /ramdisk:a is 320 M used 305M mounted on /
[03:10:57] <mick_work> i am
[03:10:58] <jmcp> ah, so right now you are booted into failsafe?
[03:11:02] <mick_work> failsafe
[03:11:06] <mick_work> yup
[03:11:21] <jmcp> well then there's definitely no point trying to start X in failsafe, it's not there
[03:11:27] <jmcp> failsafe is similar to single-user
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[03:11:42] <mick_work> ok, so if i reboot - then it just hangs :-/
[03:11:50] <jmcp> before or after grub?
[03:11:53] <mick_work> after
[03:12:01] <mick_work> should i change the boot params?
[03:12:06] <jmcp> yes
[03:12:27] <jmcp> when you get back to the grub menu, choose to edit the SXDE option
[03:12:34] <jmcp> then edit the line which starts      kernel$
[03:12:39] <jmcp> add a "-kv" to the end of that line
[03:12:42] <jmcp> hit enter
[03:12:45] <mick_work> ok
[03:12:48] <jmcp> then boot it
[03:12:48] <mick_work> then "b"
[03:12:51] <mick_work> right
[03:12:58] <jmcp> the -v tells the kernel to load modules verbosely
[03:13:03] <Tempt> hey guys
[03:13:06] <jmcp> the -k says "drop me into kmdb if there's a panic situation"
[03:13:07] <Tempt> anyone got a linux box handy?
[03:13:07] <jmcp> hi Tempt
[03:13:13] <jmcp> Tempt: nope
[03:13:14] <mick_work> Tempt: yes
[03:13:21] <Tempt> what does id -u return?
[03:13:29] <richlowe> uid
[03:13:29] <Tempt> (I'm trying to fix a script full of GNUisms)
[03:13:30] <richlowe> numeric
[03:13:35] <mick_work> the uid of the user
[03:13:36] <Tempt> Okay, thanks!
[03:13:40] <mick_work> example: root == 0
[03:13:51] <mick_work> np
[03:14:10] <Tempt> (fsckin' GNUismn)
[03:14:27] <mick_work> i remember having to go on sunfreeware.com many years ago - to retain my sanity when i was adminning a solaris 8 box
[03:14:32] <flyingparchment> root@vandale:~# /usr/xpg4/bin/id -u
[03:14:33] <flyingparchment> 0
[03:14:37] <richlowe> id -u
[03:14:38] <richlowe> 100
[03:14:45] <richlowe> since Garrett synced that option with /usr/bin
[03:14:59] <mick_work> i guess i'll need to do that (still)
[03:15:08] <jmcp> mick_work: don't make that assumption
[03:15:10] * mick_work looks to see if that site still exists
[03:15:22] <jmcp> mick_work: once you've booted successfully, check out the contents of /usr/sfw/bin
[03:15:26] <flyingparchment> Tempt: don't be so quick to label things gnuisms ;-)
[03:15:34] <mick_work> ok, i get: Starting Desktop Login on display :0
[03:15:40] <jmcp> that's good
[03:15:54] <mick_work> well nothing is actually happening
[03:15:55] <jmcp> mick_work: when you said "it hangs" .. .was that your very first boot after installation?
[03:15:59] <Tempt> The particular script I'm working on is plagued with GNUisms
[03:16:01] <jarv> it can take awhile
[03:16:07] <Tempt> For example, it thinks grep == ggrep
[03:16:16] <jmcp> mick_work: the very first boot after installation is where SMF manifests get imported
[03:16:19] <mick_work> jmcp: i tried rebooting and i had the same problem
[03:16:29] <jmcp> what is on your screen right now?
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[03:16:35] <mick_work> same thing
[03:16:48] <jmcp> mick_work: please answer my specific question with a specific answer
[03:16:49] <mick_work> i can't even change ttys
[03:16:54] <ormandj> hi, i'm about to install opensolaris (b70 CE) on my laptop, but i want to be able to upgrade down the road. is there a particular method of installing i need to follow?
[03:17:01] <jmcp> mick_work: we don't have that on Solaris
[03:17:03] <mick_work> "ok, i get: Starting Desktop Login on display :0"
[03:17:10] <mick_work> oh :-/
[03:17:13] <jbk> yet
[03:17:14] <flyingparchment> ormandj: you can do a dvd upgrade with nothing special.  if you want to use liveupgrade, create a spare root slice
[03:17:15] <jmcp> ormandj: leave a large slice for live-upgrade :)
[03:17:20] <mick_work> ctrl + F# doesn't work?
[03:17:23] <jmcp> mick_work: is your disk grinding?
[03:17:26] <jmcp> correct, it does not work
[03:17:29] <flyingparchment> (LU means you don't have to burn DVDs all the time)
[03:17:34] <mick_work> it is spinning - yes
[03:17:39] <flyingparchment> virtual consoles for solaris is being worked on though, not integrated yet
[03:17:40] <ormandj> flyingparchment: LU sounds kind of nice :p
[03:17:40] <mick_work> and the blinker thing is going
[03:18:04] <jmcp> mick_work: how long did you wait the last time?
[03:18:12] <mick_work> well a while
[03:18:22] <mick_work> i'm not sure - a few minutes?
[03:18:27] <ormandj> i think i'll go with the non-LU route for the laptop simply because of disk constraints (and I have plenty of dvd-rws) but for my desktop, i'm going to have to give LU a go.
[03:18:34] * boyd curses people who think that "because it's a list, I should email it in a spreadsheet
[03:18:58] <Tempt> hahaha
[03:19:03] <jmcp> mick_work: what sort of hardware are you using here?
[03:19:06] <ormandj> thank you jmcp/flyingparchment :)
[03:19:15] <mick_work> generic PC
[03:19:18] <nrubsig> boyd: you can always send it as ksh93 variable tree like this one: http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/680556
[03:19:19] <g4lt-sb100> right, everybody knows it's better as a HTML <ul>
[03:19:29] <bda> Fired.
[03:19:37] <boyd> At least it's text...
[03:19:42] <mick_work> 1.5 gigahertz box, 786 ram
[03:19:47] <mick_work> iirc
[03:19:48] <jmcp> mick_work: a word to the wise, here - in this channel, if somebody asks you a question where you can provide a specific, detailed answer - it's muchmuch better to do so
[03:19:49] <jmcp> right
[03:19:53] <nrubsig> bda:  ?!
[03:20:03] <bda> nrubsig: g4lt-sb100's <ul> comment. :)
[03:20:04] <jmcp> nrubsig: his dtrace probe
[03:20:15] <bda> in ur kernel firin' ur probez
[03:20:15] <nrubsig> bda: <simplelist> !!
[03:20:18] <mick_work> jmcp: i can't exactly cat /proc/cpuinfo
[03:20:21] <mick_work> ;)
[03:20:29] <flyingparchment> lists should be done in wiki syntax.  ;-)
[03:20:30] <ormandj> oh, and i'd like to talk to somebody about something google related (in an unofficial capacity at this point) - anybody here up to that? :p
[03:20:31] <flyingparchment> mick_work: psrinfo -pv
[03:20:32] <mick_work> if procfs exists on solaris
[03:20:34] <jmcp> mick_work: that's why you need to know a bit more about your systems
[03:20:41] <nrubsig> bda: <simplelist><member>foo</member><member>bar</member></simplelist> !!
[03:20:47] <bda> mick_work: prtdiag
[03:20:51] <bda> nrubsig: ald;fk
[03:20:52] <nrubsig> flyingparchment: Wiki ?
[03:20:55] <jmcp> procfs exists, but it's a true filesystem rather than some !#$!%$!@$!#@! half-arsed inteface to the kernel
[03:20:56] <mick_work> can i do those things in failsafe?
[03:20:56] * nrubsig shoots flyingparchment
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[03:21:08] <jmcp> mick_work: psrinfo should work in failsafe
[03:21:08] <nrubsig> flyingparchment: don't get me started about Wiki junk
[03:21:17] <mick_work> jmcp: to be honest, i'm used to things "just working"
[03:21:24] <boyd> nrubsig: I've been meaning to ask. That's a not particulary exciting or innovative tree data structure of a kind widely used in other scripting languages. Why do you need to make a whole new name for it? (variable tree)
[03:21:29] <mick_work> so i never needed to know specifics
[03:21:32] <Tempt> argh, chokin' on the linuxisms: i cant find your equivalent of ld.so
[03:21:37] <mick_work> ok, i did in '96-'98
[03:21:44] <flyingparchment> boyd: because ksh93 is speshul
[03:21:45] <jbk> mick_work: depends on your hardware
[03:22:01] <jmcp> mick_work: you're used to a certain way of doing things. we do things diffferently in this part of the unix world
[03:22:05] <jbk> i can show you brand-new linux 'supported' servers that require all sorts of tribal knowledge to actually get working correctly w/ linux
[03:22:22] <nrubsig> boyd: erm... the official name for that stuff is "compound variable".
[03:22:31] <jmcp> Tempt: please don't tell me that script tries to exec a library?
[03:22:32] <mick_work> jmcp: well i'm trying to learn them :)
[03:22:44] <jmcp> mick_work: you're in the right place to get some clues on that
[03:23:06] <nrubsig> boyd: see http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ksh93-integration-discuss/2007-August/005622.html
[03:23:32] <nrubsig> boyd: the thing in pastebin.ca is just a XML-document stuffed into such a compound variable
[03:23:41] <flyingparchment> speaking of doing things differently, today i learnt that on openserver, 'ls' is 'ls -1', and to get 'ls -C', you use 'lc'
[03:23:47] <mick_work> my date is messed up - can that hose my box?
[03:24:06] <boyd> nrubsig: Yes, I know... but why do we need a whole new name for a data structure?
[03:24:19] <boyd> Or at least for the container.
[03:24:25] <richlowe> boyd: because naming things is fun.
[03:24:37] <boyd> And naming them twice is twice the fun?
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[03:24:59] <nrubsig> boyd: no clue. I just calll it "variable tree" because I use it like that in my applications.
[03:25:00] <jmcp> mick_work: it might
[03:25:04] <boyd> Tempt: What are you working on? That "can't execute ld.so" sounds familiar
[03:25:05] <Tempt> Is there a replacement for scponly?
[03:25:06] <jmcp> mick_work: how "messed up" is it?
[03:25:21] <mick_work> ok, my system is: 1 virtual processor (0) x86 AuthenticAMD 662 family 6 model 6 step 2 clock 1150 MHz AMD Athlon XP
[03:25:21] <boyd> Tempt: /usr/bin/ksh93?
[03:25:22] <Tempt> boyd: scponly ...
[03:25:32] <mick_work> jmcp: i was refering to X
[03:25:38] <Tempt> boyd: ksh93? Aah, no, I wouldn't have such things on my system!
[03:25:44] <Tempt> :)
[03:25:52] <boyd> Tempt: Oh, actually, I got that ld.so error last week after patch installs!
[03:25:55] <jmcp> mick_work: you just mentioned that your date is messed up
[03:25:58] <boyd> (on everything)
[03:26:03] <flyingparchment> Tempt: ksh93 will _be_ your system soon
[03:26:08] <mick_work> jmcp: yes, due to my bios reset
[03:26:13] <jmcp> mick_work: how far off reality do you expect it to be?
[03:26:13] <Tempt> flyingparchment: Not for a long time, I'd say.
[03:26:15] <mick_work> i just rememebred that
[03:26:18] <jmcp> so go into the bios and fix it :)
[03:26:20] <jmcp> duh
[03:26:38] <mick_work> what i mean is.... would it kill X
[03:26:43] <jmcp> it should not kill X
[03:26:46] <mick_work> some things are dumb when it comes to time
[03:26:50] <flyingparchment> yes, X is only licensed for a year's use
[03:26:53] <flyingparchment> if the clock's wrong, it won't start
[03:26:54] <boyd> haha
[03:27:16] <mick_work> like if($time > $current_time) { die("OMFG!!?!?!?!?!?"); }
[03:27:18] * jmcp thwaps flyingparchment
[03:27:19] <Tempt> I gather ksh93 wouldn't be integrated into Solaris until u5 at the earliest.
[03:27:29] <Tempt> unless u4 is being delayed for ksh93 issues! :)
[03:27:56] <richlowe> a backport of ksh93 would be interesting to see.
[03:27:58] <flyingparchment> i'd be surprised if ksh93 ever came to S10 in the form they want
[03:27:59] <richlowe> 'cos Roland couldn't do it.
[03:28:00] <richlowe> or see it.
[03:28:03] <nrubsig> mick_work: use if ((time > current_time )) ; then die $"OMFG!))" ; fi
[03:28:08] <boyd> Tempt: at least that is an explanation
[03:28:13] <Tempt> They could hire Roland.
[03:28:18] <Tempt> Or get him in as a contractor to do it.
[03:28:22] <mick_work> nrubsig: that was pseudocode :P
[03:28:22] <richlowe> They could.
[03:28:40] <nrubsig> richlowe: you forget April Chin.
[03:28:48] <nrubsig> richlowe: She's able to do it, too.
[03:28:49] <Tempt> nrubsig: Want to go play with ksh at Sun's expense?
[03:28:50] <richlowe> nrubsig: I'm fully aware of April.
[03:28:53] <mick_work> jmcp: well - any ideas? :)
[03:29:12] <boyd> If roland does it then he would actually be earning money! That's better, surely
[03:29:16] <jmcp> mick_work: not at the moment, no
[03:29:25] <bit2man> What's solaris's version of "top" ????
[03:29:28] <flyingparchment> bit2man: prstat
[03:29:29] <richlowe> prstat
[03:29:37] <mick_work> i wonder if i can prevent it from starting X on boot
[03:29:46] <Tempt> alias top=rm -rf ~
[03:29:49] <flyingparchment> mick_work: dtconfig -d
[03:29:58] <richlowe> boot single user, and do what flyingparchment said.
[03:29:59] <jmcp> mick_work: "svcadm disable cde-login"
[03:30:06] <richlowe> or if using gdm, svcadm disable gdm
[03:30:24] <mick_work> dtconfig: not found
[03:30:29] <flyingparchment> /usr/dt/bin/dtconfig
[03:30:54] <mick_work> cde-login doesn't match any instances
[03:31:08] <bit2man> flyingparchment: thx - I'm being told I have a load average in 20s ... does load avarage in solaris indicate the same as in linux? If so, it make sno sense cause prstat only reports on running process (prstat)
[03:31:16] <boyd> Tempt: dtrace -n 'exec-success /execname=="top"/ {raise(9)}'
[03:31:49] <mick_work> flyingparchment: still not found :-|
[03:32:42] <mick_work> and pattern 'gdm' doesn't match any instances
[03:32:47] <boyd> bit2man: I can't parse that, sorry. I don't know what load average means in linux exactly, but I'd guess they're pretty close
[03:32:57] <mick_work> svcadm disable gdm <-- just tried this
[03:33:15] <boyd> bit2man: I don't understand the second sentence
[03:33:20] <jbk> or is it svcadm disable dtlogin?
[03:33:25] <sommerfeld> bit2man: high load average is not necessarily a problem.
[03:33:32] <bit2man> boyd: indicator of how many concurrent running processes you have
[03:33:46] <Auralis> load is the avarage of job sin the runqueue in the past 1, 5 and 15 minutes
[03:33:53] <flyingparchment> not currently running, in the run queue
[03:33:55] <bit2man> sommerfeld: When I have nothing running on the box, it is ;)  sendmail etc. is refusing to operator because it thinks the host is too busy
[03:33:58] <boyd> umm.. if that's what it means in linux then that's... surprising
[03:34:44] <boyd> Actually, the run queue definition is in fact what it *used* to be on solaris. it's not calculated that way any more but the numbers are close
[03:35:07] <mick_work> ok, i'd like to point out that i'm not an idiot. i'm actually a pretty good developer / admin.
[03:35:44] <mick_work> i can't believe that this is *that* hard to figure out
[03:35:59] <jmcp> mick_work: I don't think you have a complete install
[03:36:08] <jmcp> I think your installation is basically broken, but I don't know how
[03:36:16] <mick_work> fuck
[03:36:19] <jmcp> are you *sure* you didn't get asked any customisation questions?
[03:36:20] <sommerfeld> mick_work: svc:/application/graphical-login/cde-login
[03:36:45] <mick_work> jmcp: pretty damn sure
[03:37:40] <mick_work> sommerfeld: what does that do?
[03:37:59] <jmcp> mick_work: bugger
[03:38:11] <mick_work> i guess i'll reinstall again?
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[03:38:35] <jmcp> yeah
[03:38:37] <mick_work> i used the sol-nv-b70-x86-dvd.iso
[03:38:49] <jmcp> mick_work: don't choose the SXDE install, choose one of the other options
[03:38:54] <mick_work> ok
[03:39:16] <sommerfeld> that's the actual name of the service which starts X in a default install
[03:39:39] * mick_work installs for a 4th time
[03:40:14] <mick_work> i'll choose:"Solaris Express" -- right?
[03:40:18] <jmcp> mick_work: I think so
[03:40:23] <jmcp> it's not the top option there
[03:40:32] <mick_work> it is the second
[03:40:41] <mick_work> jmcp: thanks again for all of your help
[03:40:48] <jmcp> nowurries, you're more than welcome
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[03:41:25] <jmcp> mick_work: you should get prompted for an "install cluster"  - choose "full install"
[03:41:38] <mick_work> somehow - i thought, if you have over 10 yrs experience w/ linux and some older solaris experience -- you can get away w/ figuring out how to install SXCE/SXDE
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[03:41:44] <flyingparchment> does the new installer prompt for the cluster?
[03:41:48] <jmcp> flyingparchment: nope
[03:41:50] <richlowe> flyingparchment: No
[03:41:55] <jmcp> it's supposed to do a complete/ full install
[03:42:26] <mick_work> ok, i have a few choices, do i do "Solaris Interactive"?
[03:42:29] <jmcp> yes
[03:42:50] <mick_work> i never got asked anything about "cluster"
[03:42:57] <mick_work> as an fyi
[03:43:09] <jmcp> mick_work: yeah, it doesn't ask that in the SXDE installer
[03:43:13] <jmcp> the older one does
[03:43:21] <mick_work> ah ok
[03:43:22] <richlowe> the DE installer only asks for things it can't guess.
[03:49:31] <mick_work> is this twm or fvwm or some motif-like window manager?
[03:49:33] <g4lt-sb100> "what, is your name?  what, is your quest?  what, is the airsped velocity of an unladen swallow?"
[03:49:48] <flyingparchment> mick_work: the installer?  probably dtwm
[03:50:01] * rikochet installs Solaris in VMWare Fusion
[03:50:15] <zer0z0ne> :o vmware vusion
[03:50:16] <jmcp> mick_work: it's totally motif
[03:50:35] <flyingparchment> dtwm is mwm with the cde stuff (panel, etc)
[03:50:40] <flyingparchment> (mwm is the motif wm)
[03:50:51] <zer0z0ne> does vmware have a version for linux?
[03:51:05] <rikochet> yes
[03:51:14] <mick_work> zer0z0ne: yes
[03:51:19] <zer0z0ne> cool
[03:51:24] <rikochet> ^-^
[03:51:25] <zer0z0ne> i love vmware
[03:51:33] <zer0z0ne> very useful to test stuff
[03:51:43] <zer0z0ne> so you odnt kill your whole machine in the process :D
[03:51:44] <zer0z0ne> dont*
[03:51:49] <mick_work> zer0z0ne: why use it though? qemu / qemu-launcher  kqemu kick
[03:52:05] <zer0z0ne> ive never really used qemu
[03:52:07] <zer0z0ne> ive heard of it
[03:52:11] <zer0z0ne> never taken a good look at it
[03:52:13] <rikochet> I prefer vmware over all the other emulators
[03:52:14] <mick_work> zer0z0ne: just *don't* try to install opensolaris in a VM
[03:52:22] <rikochet> it may be bloated, but it works great
[03:52:31] <mick_work> it won't work unless you have a few gigs of ram
[03:52:36] <zer0z0ne> ok
[03:52:37] <zer0z0ne> ive got 1
[03:52:38] <rikochet> how's two sound?
[03:52:42] <rikochet> 2gbs
[03:52:45] <zer0z0ne> i want to upgrade to at least 2
[03:52:48] <mick_work> zer0z0ne: i said gigs <-- plural
[03:52:52] <jbk> jmcp: btw i have a new diff based on mws's input on the kmdb stuff whenver you want to take a look
[03:52:55] <zer0z0ne> yeah, i know
[03:52:55] <flyingparchment> i installed solaris in vmware with 768M for the installer and 256M at runtime
[03:52:58] <flyingparchment> works fine
[03:52:59] <zer0z0ne> thats why i said i need to upgrade ;)
[03:53:00] <richlowe> jbk: link?
[03:53:07] <jmcp> jbk: cool - send it on over
[03:53:12] <mick_work> on raw hw you need 786 MB
[03:53:14] <jbk> hmm.. lemme find some place to upload it :)
[03:53:24] <zer0z0ne> mick_work: wow
[03:53:25] <mick_work> if you can use your system w/ 256 then go for it -- i can't
[03:53:30] <zer0z0ne> i cant either
[03:53:34] <mick_work> zer0z0ne: ya, tell me about it :(
[03:53:43] <mick_work> i found that out the hard way
[03:53:44] <zer0z0ne> i could barely open safari with that :p
[03:53:47] <zer0z0ne> haha
[03:53:47] <flyingparchment> works fine for what i do with it in vmware
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[03:54:16] <zer0z0ne> flyingparchment: not too slow?
[03:54:21] <brett_h> how do I set the working directory for an SMF uh, directive?
[03:54:26] <mick_work> jmcp: i'm choosiing "upgrade"
[03:54:39] <zer0z0ne> i like mac a lot
[03:54:57] <mick_work> zer0z0ne: w/ my solaris experience - i' liking macs a lot more ;)
[03:55:01] <flyingparchment> zer0z0ne: no
[03:55:08] <jbk> though i guess now that I think about it, I should probably put in the C99 stuff too...
[03:55:08] <flyingparchment> no GUI, no daemons, one user
[03:55:34] <zer0z0ne> ah, ok
[03:55:39] <zer0z0ne> yeah, macs are great
[03:55:45] <zer0z0ne> you have the unix background in terminal
[03:55:50] <zer0z0ne> and the great GUI
[03:55:55] <zer0z0ne> and also great support
[03:56:13] <mick_work> ya
[03:56:25] <mick_work> but w/ solaris you have motif ;)
[03:56:39] <mick_work> that has to count for something
[03:56:44] <mick_work> *g*
[03:56:56] <boyd> ... and on mac you have HFS+
[03:56:57] <zer0z0ne> :)
[03:58:02] <jmcp> mick_work: good idea
[03:58:18] <jmcp> mick_work: that will take a while, but it should end up giving you a usable system
[03:58:27] <mick_work> i hope so
[03:58:47] <mick_work> i can't take it anymore (mentally)
[03:59:02] <mick_work> i feel like i'm back in '96
[03:59:19] <mick_work> w/ half assed hardware support - sh/csh and a horrible wm
[03:59:40] <flyingparchment> you don't like bash or zsh?
[03:59:52] <jmcp> mick_work: please hold off somewhat before ripping into something which you haven't experienced in 10 years
[03:59:57] <mick_work> i like bash - it wasn't installed
[03:59:58] <flyingparchment> and what's wrong with metacity?
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[04:00:05] <richlowe> flyingparchment: do you want the full list?
[04:00:18] <jmcp> mick_work: it should be /usr/bin/bash
[04:00:18] <mick_work> well - i'll need to actually have it load :)
[04:00:19] <richlowe> let's start with "It's near impossible to make it not give new windows focus"
[04:00:23] <jmcp> it's been supplied by default since Solaris 8
[04:00:34] <richlowe> perhaps a side order of "When it crashes, it moves all your windows <titlebarheight> pixels down the screen"
[04:01:05] <richlowe> I'm not sure if "JDS seem to have broken the keyboard prefs applet such that they only ever work in the same session they were set in", but I'm not sure who's actually to blame there.
[04:01:13] <mick_work> jmcp: some things haven't changed in 10 yrs ;)
[04:01:23] <jmcp> mick_work: Solaris hasn't stood still though
[04:01:35] <richlowe> Well, not all of it has.
[04:01:40] <mick_work> :)
[04:02:12] <mick_work> i'll have to see how well this stuff holds up w/ a replicated mysql cluster
[04:02:47] <flyingparchment> i run mysql on solaris.  it's solid.  (as much as you can get with mysql, anyway)
[04:03:18] <mick_work> mysql is solid as hell on linux
[04:03:24] <flyingparchment> haha
[04:03:28] <flyingparchment> you go on believing that :)
[04:03:39] <mick_work> i have run plenty of HA linux servers
[04:03:51] <richlowe> I don't believe either of you. :)
[04:04:04] <flyingparchment> i liked mysql last week, when three servers all crashed at once
[04:04:12] <mick_work> Oo
[04:04:24] <mick_work> on solaris?
[04:04:28] <flyingparchment> no, on linux
[04:04:38] <mick_work> ok
[04:04:41] <flyingparchment> (i run mysql on linux too)
[04:05:10] <flyingparchment> ever had a mysql master run out of disk space?  the part where it writes data to the database, but not the binlog, is particularly awesome.
[04:05:17] <flyingparchment> instant corruption on every slave :)
[04:05:26] <mick_work> do you run replicated servers / clusters, or replicated clusters?
[04:05:46] <flyingparchment> no clustering (we use 4.0), just replication
[04:06:05] * mick_work is planning on using 5.1
[04:06:10] <flyingparchment> mysql cluster won't be suitable for us until 5.1 at least
[04:06:14] <mick_work> for the solaris one
[04:06:22] <jbk> jmcp, richlowe: http://www.madhack.com/~jason/libdisasm-2.diff
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[04:06:28] <jmcp> jbk: ta much
[04:06:30] * jmcp downloads
[04:06:37] <mick_work> well i'm off
[04:06:48] <mick_work> 10:00pm - at work on laborday
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[04:06:54] <mick_work> son of a....
[04:06:55] <nachox> nrubsig, around?
[04:07:01] <richlowe> jbk: are you looking for review, or?
[04:07:02] <mick_work> see you all later
[04:07:17] <jbk> richlowe: well you said you wanted a link to it :)
[04:07:31] <richlowe> I did, and I do.
[04:07:34] <nrubsig> nachox: half and half
[04:07:39] <jmcp> jbk: did I email to request-sponsor saying I'd sponsor you for this?
[04:08:13] <jbk> jmcp: not that i know of, but i haven't sent an email to that either
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[04:09:15] <flyingparchment> hmm, i haven't heard anything about my waiting sponsor request in a couple of months.. maybe i should find out what's going on
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[04:13:08] <movement> flyingparchment: yes, you should at least send out a reminder that you're waiting for a sponsor
[04:13:17] <flyingparchment> oh, i have a sponsor
[04:13:21] <flyingparchment> i was waiting for code review
[04:13:43] <nrubsig> what ?
[04:13:50] <nrubsig> flyingparchment: you got a sponsor ?
[04:13:56] * nrubsig gets jealous
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[04:15:41] <movement> flyingparchment: ah, then if you have a victim, you should definitely email them :)
[04:18:18] <richlowe> flyingparchment: I would guess what's going on is that the priorization sucks.
[04:18:23] <richlowe> ping them. :)
[04:20:36] <dlg> ola
[04:20:39] <jbk> i guess i probably need to fill out a contributor agreement too then :)
[04:21:37] <jbk> jmcp: need me to first send an email to request-sponsor requesting one?
[04:21:54] <richlowe> I'd send in the SCA first.
[04:22:01] <richlowe> but yeah, you'll end up having to ask for one even if you already have one.
[04:22:05] <richlowe> or at least, people keep making me do so.
[04:22:47] <jmcp> jbk: yes to the SCA, then you could email me requesting that I sponsor you, and cc request-sponsor
[04:22:57] <jmcp> ... since I've already said I'll sponsor your contribution
[04:25:24] <jbk> ok..
[04:27:58] <kaiwai> hmm, linuxbios, solarisbios would be neat
[04:28:25] <g4lt-sb100> solarisbios is openprom ;P
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[04:41:12] <nrubsig> grrrrr
[04:41:15] <nrubsig> stupid HTML
[04:51:23] <kaiwai> g4lt-sb100: na, something that is PC installable
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[05:47:57] <richlowe> gdamore: yeesh. :)
[05:49:46] <Tempt> yeesh?
[05:50:07] <boyd> Too much ssschnapps
[05:50:14] <Tempt> haha
[05:50:24] <Tempt> Checked out the new Fujitsu Lifebook U1010 today at lunch time
[05:50:34] <Tempt> With the awsome power of Vista it took over 10 minutes to boot
[05:50:40] <Tempt> and then disabled all sound because of a DRM issue
[05:50:51] <boyd> Haha! lol
[05:51:02] <Tempt> and the onscreen keyboard had a session with General Protection Fault and his merry band
[05:51:33] <Tempt> and when I clicked on one of the demo applications it dimmed the screen, waited 45 seconds and then asked permission to launch it
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[05:55:44] <boyd> Heh
[05:55:47] <kaiwai> Tempt: after my experience with this PC I'm looking at getting a Mac next time
[05:56:09] * boyd goes back to family life
[05:59:23] <Tempt> Family life?
[05:59:27] <Tempt> You mean tending to the machines, right?
[05:59:56] <e^ipi> kaiwai: yes, do that
[06:02:34] <Tempt> I think it's e^ipi's turn to make coffee
[06:03:54] <e^ipi> heh, i normally drink thorough a pound per week or so, since getting the 'spro machine I've burned through 3 times that much
[06:04:30] <e^ipi> I imagine it'll slow down as i get the hang of it & experiment less, but there have you
[06:07:08] <sommerfeld> that's.. frightening.
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[06:07:28] <kaiwai> not really
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[06:07:49] <kaiwai> I'm looking at capacino machine, one of those necessities in life
[06:08:01] <e^ipi> cappuccino
[06:08:06] <sommerfeld> the 3lb/week burn rate for coffee, I mean
[06:08:16] <e^ipi> sommerfeld: i've tossed a lot of it
[06:08:35] <e^ipi> my espresso-fu is still weak
[06:08:38] <e^ipi> but improving
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[06:08:46] <ruiner> Has anyone successfully compiled the silc client?
[06:09:02] <e^ipi> kaiwai: any particular machine you were thinking of?
[06:09:04] <ruiner> I get the toolkit compiled and then it craps out here:
[06:09:08] <ruiner> mv -f .deps/perl-sources.Tpo .deps/perl-sources.Plo
[06:09:08] <ruiner> mv: cannot access .deps/perl-sources.Tpo
[06:09:08] <ruiner> *** Error code 2
[06:09:08] <ruiner> make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `perl-sources.lo'
[06:09:15] <kaiwai> sommerfeld: easily done, I used to have up to 6 triple strength coffees per day
[06:09:35] <kaiwai> e^ipi: one of those fancy european models
[06:09:51] <e^ipi> i dunno about NZ, but in N.America *$ is getting rid of the saeco rebadge machines ( sold as "starbucks barista" ) for $100 if you can still find 'em
[06:10:12] <e^ipi> "fancy european models" ?
[06:10:21] <kaiwai> Delongi
[06:10:28] <ruiner> Anyone?
[06:10:45] <e^ipi> what kinna grinder do you have?
[06:11:05] <kaiwai> hmm, whats that french company
[06:11:57] <kaiwai> they make a whole range of whiteware
[06:12:21] <e^ipi> common sentiment that i've been told by countless coffeegeeks... invest in a good grinder first
[06:13:06] <ruiner> Anyone here a solaris geek and want to help me?
[06:13:40] <kaiwai> oh well, better put it back on topic - I'd love to see a coffee machine with solaris embedded :)
[06:13:48] <e^ipi> never bothered with silc
[06:14:26] <ruiner> :(
[06:14:40] <kaiwai> ruiner: use BitchX
[06:14:48] <kaiwai> thats what I'm using right now, quite nice
[06:15:05] <CIA-16> fb209375: 6497117 usba make failed when just bringover usr/src/uts/common/io/usb
[06:15:05] <e^ipi> i used bitchx for years before i switched to irssi
[06:15:10] <e^ipi> irssi just has more features
[06:15:19] <ruiner> BitchX for silc?
[06:15:20] <ruiner> lol
[06:15:26] <ruiner> silc isnt irc
[06:15:32] <ruiner> I have irc clients
[06:15:52] <Tempt> I burn around 1kg/week between my and the gf
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[06:16:23] <kaiwai> what does silc do?
[06:16:29] <ruiner> its encrypted
[06:16:32] <ruiner> www.silcnet.org
[06:16:44] <Tempt> and BitchX is so nineties, irssi is where the win is unless you're running crazy scripts or botnets or warezing on efnet
[06:17:01] <ruiner> I dont use irc anymore except to come in here for help
[06:17:02] <ruiner> lol
[06:17:03] <kaiwai> dear god
[06:17:11] <kaiwai> what the fuck does all this crap crawl out from?
[06:17:12] <richlowe> and the normal silc client (was?) based on irssi
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[06:17:22] <Triskelios> yay, I'm running onnv-gate
[06:17:27] <ruiner> richlowe: is
[06:17:41] <ruiner> its basically the irc client, with silc networking code
[06:17:44] <Triskelios> SpeedStep works ^^
[06:17:56] <ruiner> I cant get it to compile on the solaris box though
[06:18:04] <ruiner> It craps out building the client during the perl section
[06:18:11] <kaiwai> ruiner: are you setting up the server or client?
[06:18:18] <ruiner> client
[06:18:27] <kaiwai> why not use the pidgin plugin?
[06:18:35] <ruiner> Well, youve got to compile pidgin with silc
[06:18:39] <ruiner> and thats an even bigger pain in the ass
[06:18:48] <ruiner> That is so screwed I dont know where to start with it
[06:19:03] <kaiwai> thought of using some alot easier?
[06:19:16] <Tempt> e^ipi: You should try keeping a journal of your espresso. I used to keep an old digicam next to the machine and snap pix of each shot
[06:19:16] <ruiner> Ill use anything that compiles on solaris
[06:19:31] <kaiwai> you need it for conferencing I assume
[06:19:41] <ruiner> Uh, we moved our irc channel to silc
[06:19:45] <richlowe> I'd assume there's another error above what you pasted.
[06:19:50] <ruiner> because its secure and you can talk openly at work without being monitored
[06:19:53] <richlowe> but what you pasted also smells like libtool.
[06:19:58] <Tempt> e^ipi: Look back over the first two months of having the machine and you can *see* the improvements. Now, just thinkg of the flavour.
[06:20:07] <kaiwai> perl is monumentally fucked (along wity python) on solaris anyway
[06:20:08] <richlowe> and libtool is a problem all by itself.
[06:20:21] <richlowe> kaiwai: if you mean it, file bugs.
[06:20:25] <Tempt> Heh, just ssh out of work. That'll keep people from snooping your traffic.
[06:20:39] <ruiner> wish I could compile it without perl
[06:20:40] <ruiner> heh
[06:20:43] <ruiner> I dont need to run scripts in irssi
[06:20:44] <kaiwai> richlowe: its a know issue, I shouldn't need to point out the obvious
[06:20:52] <richlowe> Clearly *I* don't know about it.
[06:20:57] <richlowe> and you haven't even quoted a bug id.
[06:21:04] <kaiwai> when everything breaks that uses perl and python, thee is something wrong
[06:21:16] <Tempt> kaiwai: Could be your fault?
[06:21:23] <ruiner> brand new install
[06:21:24] <ruiner> havent touched anything
[06:21:32] <ruiner> complete solaris community edition build 70
[06:21:39] <ruiner> silc-toolkit builds fine
[06:21:42] <ruiner> Ive got all the libraries installed
[06:21:43] <richlowe> ruiner: I'd assume configure took a --disable-perl, if you want to go that route.
[06:21:48] <richlowe> (or whatever the option is)
[06:21:57] <ruiner> richlowe: ill try that
[06:22:00] <richlowe> but again, there's probably another error above that one that indicates what it's actually unhappy about.
[06:22:15] <ruiner> I can try again
[06:22:19] <ruiner> and see what the errors are
[06:22:41] <kaiwai> ruiner: what package did you download - silc client?
[06:22:45] <ruiner> yea
[06:22:48] <ruiner> silc client 1.1.2
[06:23:24] <nachox> like there is a lot of important top secret things being said on irc
[06:25:01] <kaiwai> seems to be compiling ok so far
[06:25:08] <ruiner> mv -f .deps/perl-sources.Tpo .deps/perl-sources.Plo
[06:25:08] <ruiner> mv: cannot access .deps/perl-sources.Tpo
[06:25:08] <ruiner> *** Error code 2
[06:25:08] <ruiner> make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `perl-sources.lo'
[06:25:14] <ruiner> it compiled ok up until that part
[06:25:20] <ruiner> thats a
[06:25:21] <ruiner> toward the end
[06:25:22] <kaiwai> hmm
[06:25:24] <ruiner> if not the very end of the make
[06:25:29] <kaiwai> directories aren't being created
[06:25:51] <kaiwai> more likely a crappy programmer with crappy skills writing crappy build routines
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[06:26:25] <gdamore> richlowe: you said "yeesssh" to me?
[06:26:30] <kaiwai> pass the option --with-perl=no
[06:26:39] <richlowe> gdamore: in jest, because of the rtls putback.
[06:26:46] <richlowe> gdamore: you're making the rest of us look lazy.
[06:26:48] <richlowe> gdamore: stop it. :)
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[06:27:06] <Tempt> Amazing how people with ZERO released code are always so bloody happy to complain about 'crappy programmers' with 'crappy skills'.
[06:27:11] <gdamore> actually, i was about the file the "afe" rti.
[06:27:13] <tga> howdy
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[06:27:23] <gdamore> it passed all the test suites with flying colors.
[06:27:28] * kaiwai kicks Tempt in the balls
[06:27:40] <tga> does anyone happen to know how I can get around sending Stop-A to a Sun box when connecting to its serial console through a serial-to-eth appliance?
[06:27:45] <Tempt> and then whinge like a spoilt child when the world doesn't bend over backwards to help them.
[06:27:57] <kaiwai> Tempt: you don't know fuck about me so shut your trap
[06:28:07] * gdamore hands Tempt his iron cup.
[06:28:16] <richlowe> oh good, we're doing this again.
[06:28:22] <kaiwai> ruiner: did you get that before, use --with-perl=no when building silc
[06:28:35] <gdamore> kaiwai:  wtf are you assuming anything?  did Tempt mention you by name somewhere that I missed?
[06:28:39] <Tempt> What I *know* you whinge a lot about insanely stupid things *cough* pcfs on your ipod *cough* and offer no solutions
[06:28:40] <richlowe> tga: you can tell the console to use something else in place of a serial BREAK assuming that's the issue.
[06:28:53] <Tempt> Man, if you've got a perl problem, compile your own perl and try to find the fault, don't just cry about it.
[06:28:54] <richlowe> 'kbd -a alternate' I think.
[06:29:00] <richlowe> though that's a wild stab in the dark at what the actual problem is.
[06:29:19] <tga> richlowe: I can't get to the obp console at all, the system boots right away, that's the problem
[06:29:22] <gdamore> tga: gimme a sec... there is a setting for that.
[06:29:25] <richlowe> Oh, you want to do the reverse.
[06:29:31] <Tempt> tga: Which "serial-to-eth" device? Cyclades? Annex? Digi?
[06:29:38] <tga> Moxa :)
[06:29:46] <Tempt> Moxa?
[06:29:52] * tga shrugs.. Moxa
[06:29:57] <Tempt> Isn't that some sort of Chinese medicine?
[06:30:11] <gdamore> KEYBOARD_ABORT=disable  <<= put that in /etc/default/kbd
[06:30:13] <Tempt> So you want to actually send the break?
[06:30:18] <richlowe> gdamore: other way around.
[06:30:18] <Tempt> or not send the break?
[06:30:29] <richlowe> gdamore: I think he wants to break it and can't, rather than breaking it and wanting it not to.
[06:30:44] <tga> I want to get obp on the line somehow and I only have the appliance thingie
[06:30:44] <kaiwai> ruiner: hello?
[06:30:45] <Tempt> tga: Do you telnet or ssh to your magical Moxa?
[06:31:05] <ruiner> hi
[06:31:08] <tga> I telnet into it, already tried telnet> send brk
[06:31:13] <kaiwai> well, did you try what I said?
[06:31:15] <Tempt> aah, crap.
[06:31:18] <Tempt> What sort of box?
[06:31:19] <gdamore> oh, then there you need to get your serial appliance to send BREAK.  Or you need ot use kbd -a enable and press SHIFT-PAUSE
[06:31:22] <Tempt> (host)
[06:31:22] <tga> E3k :)
[06:31:27] <ruiner> kaiwai: --disable-perl?
[06:31:32] <Tempt> Make sure the key isn't in the SECURE position
[06:31:39] <richlowe> gdamore: there's a thousand different ways the damn things pass break
[06:31:44] <kaiwai> I mentioned it 3+ times
[06:31:44] <ruiner> on ./configure?
[06:31:47] <kaiwai> yes
[06:31:47] <tga> it's not.. I have it on 1
[06:31:50] <kaiwai> ./configure --with-perl=no
[06:31:53] <ruiner> k
[06:31:54] <kaiwai> it compiled for me
[06:31:55] <ruiner> let me do that
[06:32:04] <kaiwai> remember to gmake distclean it before
[06:32:38] * tga stuck a 336MHz/512M module and 10 drives into a E3k and wants to play Nevada
[06:32:43] <ruiner> gmake distclean
[06:32:45] <ruiner> then gmake?
[06:32:53] <kaiwai> then do the configure
[06:32:56] <kaiwai> then go gmake
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[06:33:51] <Tempt> tga: You should be able to drop a break to it unless your serial device is just being difficult.
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[06:34:08] <Tempt> tga: Try power cycling the serial box while it's plugged in etc, often the power on noise is enough to drop a break
[06:34:28] <tga> Tempt: hmm, that should be nice
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[06:34:46] <tga> Tempt: http://www.moxa.com/product/NPort_W22502150_plus.htm fyi
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[06:36:54] <tga> Tempt: looks like it's the serial device's fault, they claim it might not be able to send breaks
[06:37:18] <Tempt> That's irritating. I guess it'll be laptop around the back of the machine time then!
[06:38:39] <tga> oh well, I was trying to avoid that
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[06:40:07] <richlowe> Tempt: or just walk to the back and yank the cable out momentarily.
[06:40:32] <tga> it didn't seem to do anything
[06:40:39] <tga> unless you're talking about the power cable..
[06:41:02] <tga> is there any magic to yanking out the cable?
[06:41:51] <gdamore> Yes.  it is equivalent to a break, or it should be.
[06:42:07] <gdamore> a break sequence is just zero bits sent for a predefined period of time.  (forgot how many milliseconds)
[06:44:20] <tga> no dice
[06:44:33] * tga goes questing for a serial adapter
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[06:45:09] <Tempt> Nah, the cable yank trick doesn't work very often
[06:45:23] <Tempt> You could try hot plugging a keyboard into it, that might do something
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[06:48:07] <tga> bingo. keyboard wins, flawless victory.
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[06:49:36] <tga> thanks folks
[06:49:56] <Tempt> No worries, enjoy your E3000.
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[06:51:43] <john--__> so I ask this out of pure ignorance (I'm an OS X and Linux trying to learn more about solaris)
[06:51:54] <john--__> i have the latest nevada build installed and its spiffy and all
[06:52:08] <john--__> whats the quickest way to get some services up and running? dns, dhcp, apache, samba
[06:52:22] <moazamraja> apache....coolstack
[06:52:25] <john--__> do they get installed with everything?
[06:52:30] <moazamraja> dns, dhcp is included
[06:52:32] <john--__> ah ok
[06:52:39] <moazamraja> samba, i'm not sure, might be included, if not, check coolstack
[06:52:45] <john--__> whats coolstack?
[06:52:54] <moazamraja> http://cooltools.sunsource.net/coolstack/
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[06:53:31] <john--__> so then the other oddity, nevada wouldnt install with less than 768 megs of ram...seems a bit steep?
[06:53:36] <john--__> is sol10 less ram hungry?
[06:53:37] <moazamraja> pre-compiled, optimized versions of apache, mysql, perl, etc.
[06:53:40] <john--__> lets say i didnt want the gui
[06:54:00] <moazamraja> johnniez_: yes, there are ways to get it to install with less memory, such as by not using the GUI
[06:54:03] <john--__> for my purposes i could get away with a lot less w/ linux
[06:54:05] <moazamraja> john__ even
[06:54:06] <john--__> ah
[06:54:21] <moazamraja> not sure why it needs so much memory actually :/
[06:54:24] <john--__> i may bite the bullet and switch my home server over
[06:54:29] <moazamraja> something that will be fixed soon, hopefully
[06:54:34] <kaiwai> john--__: the 768 is the installer, not every day use
[06:54:43] <kaiwai> you can run it quite nicely on 512mb
[06:54:46] <john--__> ah...so someone just needs to fix the installer
[06:54:49] <Tempt> samba is included by default
[06:54:53] <kaiwai> use the console installer
[06:55:05] <moazamraja> yuhp
[06:55:06] <john--__> Tempt: sounds like they include everything but apache? why?
[06:55:17] <Tempt> You get apache by default as well
[06:55:20] <john--__> oh
[06:55:21] <john--__> ok
[06:55:25] <Tempt> but you're better off using the nifty CoolStack packages
[06:55:30] <moazamraja> yeah
[06:55:32] <john--__> more up to date?
[06:55:35] <moazamraja> coolstack is badass
[06:55:45] <john--__> the one thing ill miss from RHEL is being able to run up2date across the whole system
[06:55:47] <Tempt> That way you've got apache, php, mysql, etc, etc up-to-date, optimal builds and in one location ready to go
[06:55:48] <kaiwai> either that or Solaris Enterprise System which IIRC is free
[06:55:54] <moazamraja> and i like having all my packages for SAMP in one area
[06:56:17] <Tempt> If you want a change from Apache, you can grab Sun's meaty-big webserver.
[06:57:02] <john--__> i prefer to have one server at home...so i dont have to pay a really high electric bill. right now its RHEL running a windows VMware VM as a domain controller
[06:57:12] <Tempt> Ouch.
[06:57:15] <john--__> if i went w/ solaris id have to run windows on the host, and virtualize solaris
[06:57:27] <john--__> maybe ill jsut allow myself 2 boxes
[06:57:47] <moazamraja> do u really need a 'domain controller'
[06:57:47] <moazamraja> ?
[06:57:56] <john--__> yeah...i dont even have a windows desktop
[06:58:02] <john--__> its so i can play with auth stuff
[06:58:15] <john--__> since it gives me something similar to my work environment
[06:58:19] <moazamraja> i c
[06:58:30] <kaiwai> john--__: what version of windows is it btw?
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[06:58:32] <kaiwai> for the clients?
[06:58:35] <john--__> 2003 server
[06:58:42] <john--__> MSDNAA so i didnt pay for it but its legal
[06:58:51] <moazamraja> i'm so thankful that I have not had to work in a Windows based work environment in almost 10 years
[06:59:01] <Tempt> I wonder is 3.51 still works in a vm?
[06:59:01] <kaiwai> ah, use NFS + Services for UNIX then :)
[06:59:02] <Tempt> Hmmm
[06:59:19] <john--__> any of you ever play w/ vmware?
[06:59:25] <john--__> i suppose you all have containers in solaris
[06:59:40] <kaiwai> depends on your use
[06:59:52] <john--__> i heard there's some way to virtualize linux under solaris but i didnt read into it
[06:59:54] <kaiwai> you could have Solaris + Win4Sol = teh happy
[07:00:06] <Tempt> Ha
[07:00:28] <Tempt> I'd like to see Win4bloody_anything running as a DC with AD and all those silly buzzwords
[07:01:08] <kaiwai> IIRC doesn't the LDAP server included with Solaris support interoperability?
[07:01:33] <john--__> win4sol costs money
[07:02:08] <john--__> i can virtualize anything on a linux or a windows host for free
[07:02:45] <kaiwai> what do you need linux and Windows for?
[07:02:54] <kaiwai> ah, I see
[07:03:00] <moazamraja> win4sol? didnt know it was $$...how is it anyways?
[07:03:02] <kaiwai> *looks back further*
[07:03:32] <john--__> hrmm...lemme see
[07:03:50] <kaiwai> hmm, moving your work to Solaris would be better :)
[07:05:03] <Tempt> Moving every computer in the world to Solaris on UltraSPARC IV+ would be best.
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[07:05:07] <Tempt> Let's do that tomorrow, shall we?
[07:05:11] <john--__> well, work will be windows and linux for a long time to come
[07:05:14] <Tempt> I have some time after lunch.
[07:05:17] <john--__> so i cant abandon those at home
[07:05:18] <moazamraja> anyone here have a desktop with zones on it...but then has one of the zones as the default GUI login?
[07:05:23] <kaiwai> a $1000 sparc laptop would be nice
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[07:05:27] <moazamraja> Kaiba: :/
[07:05:33] <moazamraja> kaiwai: :/      even.
[07:05:45] <john--__> id like an ultra 20 but they're too expensive for my home budget
[07:05:47] <moazamraja> grab yerself a thinkpad of macbook/pro, and run solaris on it
[07:05:55] <Tempt> moazamraja: Hmm, I don't think zones can get at the console/framebuffer by default. You could run the X server in global with XDMCP into the zone perhaps?
[07:06:11] <Tempt> a $10 AMD laptop would be nice
[07:06:18] <Tempt> or a $2.50 Core Duo
[07:06:29] <Tempt> Maybe if I keep saying that long enough one will appear!
[07:06:29] <tga> there are $100 Linux lappies in the works, those will do
[07:06:52] <moazamraja> Tempt: not a bad idea.
[07:06:55] <john--__> moazamraja: what do you use as your primary laptop?
[07:07:09] <moazamraja> john--__: MacBook Pro, OS X
[07:07:15] <john--__> seems wasteful to buy a mac and not run the mac os on it
[07:07:22] <kaiwai> hmm, a sparc laptop would be better, it would be assured to actually run Solaris properly
[07:07:23] <moazamraja> all my desktops are OS X
[07:07:32] <john--__> so you dont try to use solaris as a desktop?
[07:07:37] <moazamraja> no
[07:07:44] <moazamraja> i will soon, for testing reasons
[07:07:49] <john--__> ah
[07:07:49] <moazamraja> but not for serious desktop usage, no
[07:08:01] <kaiwai> moazamraja: dependso n what you use the desktop for I guess
[07:08:17] <moazamraja> my keyboards and mice/trackballs are configured best in OS X or at least Windows
[07:08:20] <john--__> i like the idea of using solaris instead of RHEL, (so much less crap would be installed for starters)
[07:08:27] <moazamraja> and I'm not going to give up my wrists for any OS
[07:08:28] <john--__> but my concern is the package management
[07:08:40] <john--__> it seems rather chaotic under solaris
[07:08:51] <kaiwai> john--__: how so?
[07:08:56] <kaiwai> whats chaotic about it?
[07:09:10] <john--__> there's nothing like up2date or windows update or mac os x software update
[07:09:17] <moazamraja> kaiwai: when you get a Kensington Expert Mouse Pro and its 11 buttons working great on Solaris, I'll take a gander at it as a fulltime desktop, maybe
[07:09:21] <john--__> nothing like rpm or apt get
[07:09:33] <moazamraja> there is a system updater
[07:09:40] <kaiwai> dear god, 11 buttons - what for? does one give a bj whilst the other tosses your salad?
[07:09:53] <moazamraja> kaiwai: if it did, do you think I'd be here chatting with u?
[07:09:54] <john--__> it doesnt update the packages though does it? (pleading ignorance here)
[07:10:08] <kaiwai> moazamraja: true
[07:10:12] <moazamraja> i have a seperate double-click button...a seperate drag click button, etc.
[07:10:17] <moazamraja> and top 6 buttons are mapped to apps
[07:10:19] <john--__> moazamraja: since you use a mac full time, how do you get a graphics logon on a solaris box? do you run one X app at a time using apple's X11? or use vnc? something else?
[07:10:37] <moazamraja> johnniez_: you can use Apple X11 to swallow a full Solaris desktop
[07:10:56] <john--__> moazamraja: full screen on the mac or in a window?
[07:10:59] <Tempt> moazamraja: I've certainly used XDMCP to get at zones before; I'm using it while I'm testing enlightenment builds
[07:11:04] <e^ipi> yeah, because random changes in what particular version of a piece of software you're getting with no warning at all is the opposite of chaotic
[07:11:04] <e^ipi> have you /used/ a package auto-installer lately? that's how chaos is defined
[07:11:48] <moazamraja> johnniez_: full screen on the Mac, in a virtual desktop
[07:11:59] <moazamraja> so i can swap back and forth between OS X and Solaris
[07:12:11] <john--__> moazamraja: what do you use to run virtual desktops on your mac?
[07:12:12] <moazamraja> Tempt: yeah, i've done the same, back in my sunray days
[07:12:17] <moazamraja> desktop manager
[07:12:29] <moazamraja> http://desktopmanager.berlios.de/
[07:12:32] <john--__> ah
[07:12:41] <john--__> because i've switched x11 over to full screen on the mac
[07:12:45] <moazamraja> Leopard will have a better virtpager built in
[07:12:46] <john--__> but you totally lose the mac gui
[07:12:51] <john--__> thats an interesting idea
[07:12:58] <moazamraja> i press F10, it goes to the left virtual screen
[07:13:04] <moazamraja> F11, to the right
[07:13:14] <john--__> not a bad idea
[07:13:39] <john--__> well im going to head to bed. ill mull this stuff over
[07:13:46] <moazamraja> and to swallow a Solaris screen, i use,    'xnest -geometry 1920x1200 -query mysolarisbox.unixville.com :2 '
[07:13:50] <john--__> about package management: typing up2date and walking away seems easy
[07:13:53] <john--__> but you're righ tit breaks stuff
[07:14:07] <john--__> it
[07:14:15] <moazamraja> that gives me a nice 1920x1200 Solaris desktop on me Mac
[07:14:27] <kaiwai> hmm, your righ tit
[07:14:30] <john--__> moazamraja: is that after you've sshed into the solaris box?
[07:14:33] <john--__> right tit
[07:14:34] <john--__> left tit
[07:14:35] <kaiwai> *gives it a squeeze*
[07:15:03] <moazamraja> johnniez_: damn..don't remember now, but i believe so
[07:15:08] <moazamraja> haven't done it in a bit
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[07:15:27] <john--__> moazamraja: i see...im just concerned about not sending stuff in the clear. i wont use xdmcp
[07:16:00] <moazamraja> there was ssh magic involved, i think
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[07:16:05] <moazamraja> either way, u can ssh it
[07:16:25] <moazamraja> i need to get a camera and take a photo of my new setup :P
[07:17:15] <moazamraja> iphone camera prolly sucks in this light :/
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[07:17:33] <Tempt> I'm trying to package up Enlightenment for a decent desktop experience on Solaris.
[07:17:38] <john--__> well i best be off to bed
[07:17:40] <john--__> good night
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[07:17:50] <Tempt> I'm about 45% of my way through building my automated build infra for it
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[07:19:26] <kaiwai> moazamraja: you have an iphone?
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[07:20:26] <moazamraja> kaiwai: yah
[07:20:43] <moazamraja> it's actually pretty damn nice
[07:21:16] <kaiwai> we don't have them here; not too sure whether thats a good or bad thing
[07:21:54] <moazamraja> i'm sure you'll get em there soon enough, i suppose
[07:22:06] <moazamraja> can never be a bad thing, it's just an extra thing to choose from
[07:22:11] <moazamraja> and choice is good
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[07:22:27] <kaiwai> na, the ones from Samsung/Sanyo/Nokia/Siemens/etc are looking better
[07:23:19] <moazamraja> gotta use it before u say that
[07:23:26] <moazamraja> i saw it and thought "ehh, ok..so what"
[07:23:29] <moazamraja> then i used it, wow
[07:23:35] <moazamraja> http://lego.unixville.com/~moazam/images/orbOffice.jpg
[07:23:40] <moazamraja> wow, that lighting is horrible
[07:23:43] <moazamraja> can't see jackshit
[07:24:56] <kaiwai> damn that is dark
[07:25:06] <moazamraja> it's night time...and i got 1 light in the room
[07:25:11] <moazamraja> don't need much more
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[07:25:24] <moazamraja> but it comes off super-dark in the cellphone camera
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[07:27:26] <WickedWicky> morning all
[07:27:38] <nrubsig> morning ?
[07:27:40] <nrubsig> wait ?
[07:27:45] <WickedWicky> 7:26am
[07:27:45] <nrubsig> light! outside!
[07:27:48] <nrubsig> horrible!
[07:27:51] <nrubsig> light!
[07:27:54] <nrubsig> help me!
[07:27:56] <kaiwai> hi WickedWicky
[07:27:59] <moazamraja> it burnses us
[07:28:00] * WickedWicky closes the curtains
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[07:28:08] <WickedWicky> hellows kaiwai! :D
[07:28:20] <WickedWicky> o.O
[07:28:25] <kaiwai> hmm, marmalade on toast :)
[07:28:26] <WickedWicky> text book case of crack
[07:29:34] <moazamraja> renihs: [appliances-discuss] CF card as cheap harddisk isn't dream       ?? wtf?
[07:29:43] <moazamraja> I dunno what he is RE'ing too...
[07:29:51] <moazamraja> . RE:
[07:29:52] <moazamraja> evne
[07:31:03] <richlowe> moazamraja: huh?
[07:31:39] <moazamraja> from the appliances-discuss mailing list
[07:31:40] <moazamraja> just saw it
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[07:35:00] <moazamraja> I saw this at the store today:
[07:35:01] <moazamraja> http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/11-235-007-03.jpg
[07:35:06] <moazamraja> $550 USD.
[07:35:08] <moazamraja> quite wicked.
[07:35:45] <kaiwai> neat
[07:35:51] <kaiwai> embedded solaris would be good
[07:36:06] <kaiwai> too bad Sun didn't jump on the POS bandwagon sooner given the death/dying of SCO
[07:38:21] <kaiwai> AIO Sunray with embedded solaris, touch screen etc.
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[07:39:45] <ormandj> hi, using build 70, i can't seem to get wireless working on a thinkpad t43p. i disabled physical:default and enabled nwam, and it scans and sees the network (it's wpa), prompted me for the password the first time, but doesn't seem to connect (or at least I'm getting no ips)
[07:39:49] <kaiwai> hmm, thats not good being in room surfing the net
[07:40:03] <ormandj> ifconfig shows the iwi0 device as "running"
[07:40:05] <kaiwai> ormandj: is the wireless card 3945 a/b/g?
[07:40:13] <kaiwai> ooh
[07:40:15] <kaiwai> I see
[07:40:23] <kaiwai> iwi/ipw doesn't support wpa
[07:40:32] <kaiwai> you'll need to change the router to wep
[07:40:47] <ormandj> uhg :/
[07:40:53] <ormandj> so no intel wireless wpa?
[07:41:00] <kaiwai> none :(
[07:41:15] <ormandj> can't use WEP, that's a non-option
[07:41:18] <kaiwai> thats my born of contention with Solaris (along with webcam support - but that is apparently being addressed)
[07:41:33] <moazamraja> u and the webcam again...
[07:41:45] * moazamraja hands kaiwai a Apple iSight Firewire camera
[07:41:46] <ormandj> any idea when WPA support will be available for intel wireless?
[07:41:50] <kaiwai> baring replacing the wireless chip, there really isn't much of another option
[07:42:22] <kaiwai> moazamraja: its ok the webcam is built into my laptop, its going toget supported; I put it forward, and said I was willign to pay, right now they're looking at the T&C's
[07:42:58] <kaiwai> ormandj: i talked to the Intel person around 2 weeks ago, he said he has just assembled a Solaris team, so he said it'll hopefully by the end of the year, along with theirr new 4965 support as well
[07:43:13] <ormandj> kaiwai: well, that's a step forward i suppose.
[07:43:28] <ormandj> i was planning to convert a bunch of people @ google over to opensolaris, but it's not going to happen now
[07:43:33] <ormandj> that's unfortunate
[07:43:36] <kaiwai> whose router is it?
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[07:43:45] <kaiwai> I'm assuming that is why you can't use WEP
[07:43:53] <ormandj> you'd be wrong in that assumption
[07:44:02] <ormandj> WEP is just a no-go, no matter who's router it is.
[07:44:13] <kaiwai> I use wep with mac address filtering
[07:44:21] <ormandj> you might as well use no encryption
[07:44:28] <ormandj> macs are easily changed and WEP is pointless
[07:44:44] <kaiwai> ormandj: then again, I'm in an area full of lundites
[07:44:50] <kaiwai> so I'm safe :)
[07:45:08] <ormandj> ten minutes around your wep/mac secured AP and a sniffer and i'd be connected to your network and watching all the traffic in real time, unecrypted
[07:45:25] <ormandj> unencrypted, that is
[07:45:50] <ormandj> well, guess it's time to remove OSOL again and tell my coworkers at google they have to wait till end of year (or later)
[07:45:51] <g4lt-sb100> ormandj, right, and you have a better solution right at your fingertips then
[07:46:57] <WickedWicky> I thought I read somewhere that there was a wpa module
[07:47:10] <e^ipi> no, it's much better to pretend that threats will magically make things happen
[07:47:12] <g4lt-sb100> there is, atheros rocks all over with it
[07:47:25] <moazamraja> ormandj: or...get your coworkers at Google to contribute some code to get something like this working
[07:47:26] <WickedWicky> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/laptop/wireless/wpa/;jsessionid=68EB9C8B2225CC22D439686B7EE9C1CF
[07:47:27] <e^ipi> ath rocks my cock... i won't buy laptops without it
[07:47:37] <moazamraja> ormandj: since well, u know, i hear Google has some smart people, or something.
[07:47:46] <ormandj> moazamraja: i doubt it's going to happen, i've already experienced a lot of friction even suggesting osol
[07:47:49] <ormandj> unfortunately
[07:48:05] <moazamraja> ormandj: i'll make u a deal
[07:48:17] <kaiwai> e^ipi: very few laptop companies use it unfortunately
[07:48:18] <ormandj> i doubt you're in much of a position to offer me a deal, but go foward
[07:48:20] <moazamraja> ormandj: i'll come by Google this week, and eat lunch+dinner there for 1 week
[07:48:33] <e^ipi> kaiwai: and those laptop companies don't see my business
[07:48:34] <moazamraja> then after that, i'll start working on getting WPA implemented.
[07:48:35] <moazamraja> yeah.
[07:48:44] <moazamraja> or...i'll just rub my belly and smile :)
[07:48:53] <ormandj> moazamraja: i'd buy you lunch and dinner for a week if you'd implement WPA in a reasonable timeframe on intel wireless chipsets
[07:49:02] <ormandj> or just pay you cash
[07:49:03] <e^ipi> since "well supported by all open-source operating systems that I care about " is top of my list for what i look for in hardware
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[07:49:12] <WickedWicky> that is: if your intel wireless works out of the box with osol
[07:49:23] <g4lt-sb100> why the fuck would anyone do a damn fool thing like work on intel crap willingly?
[07:49:26] <e^ipi> because i'm not an idiot, and don't pay for unsupported hardware
[07:49:37] <ormandj> intel "crap" seems quite nice, actually
[07:49:54] <ormandj> kaiwai: thanks for the information, sorry some people seem to act defensively when nobody has insulted them
[07:50:05] <WickedWicky> buy a d-link 650, they're cheap
[07:50:08] <ormandj> looking forward to WPA whenever it happens :)
[07:50:09] <WickedWicky> and are ath driven
[07:50:45] <ormandj> WickedWicky: not an option :) but thanks for the suggestion. requirements deem it necessary for the OS to work properly with the internal hardware, no external devices allowed
[07:50:58] <ormandj> thanks, those of you who helped! :)
[07:50:59] <WickedWicky> ow
[07:51:22] <g4lt-sb100> right, I forgot about the massive support that google has provided osol
[07:51:35] <moazamraja> google spends BILLIONS on opensource!!!
[07:51:36] <ormandj> g4lt-sb100: maybe you forgot about the fact that nobody is badmouthing osol
[07:51:42] <moazamraja> BILLIONS i tell ya.
[07:51:43] <g4lt-sb100> ...except you
[07:51:48] <ormandj> g4lt-sb100: where?
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[07:51:59] <ormandj> again - see comment about people being defensive for no reason
[07:52:46] <moazamraja> anyone here running that Compbiz stuff?
[07:52:47] <ormandj> i use solaris on all of my servers, i'm certainly a fan, and the fact i'm trying to convert people to OSOL should speak towards that
[07:53:02] <moazamraja> does it do 'expose' like OS X? F9 key, etc.?
[07:53:14] <kaiwai> hmm
[07:53:15] <moazamraja> compviz, whatever it's called
[07:53:22] <ormandj> compwiz-fusion is the new one
[07:53:24] <kaiwai> unfortunately google thinkings that opensource equals Linux
[07:53:27] <ormandj> beryl+compwiz
[07:53:32] <ormandj> kaiwai: that isn't true
[07:53:41] <kaiwai> what contributions have they made for solaris?
[07:53:44] <richlowe> yeesh.
[07:53:45] <ormandj> our resources are just placed where it makes business sense
[07:53:52] <ormandj> richlowe: see what fun I have?
[07:53:53] <ormandj> :p
[07:53:55] <richlowe> did I miss out when people were passing the crack around, or something? :)
[07:54:00] <jmcp> yes
[07:54:01] <g4lt-sb100> kaiwai, but hey, we're supposed to jump through hoops just to see it used in the google campus
[07:54:02] <e^ipi> ormandj: hang out here longer, you'll find kaiwai often talks shit he's not qualified or educated enough to comment on
[07:54:06] <kaiwai> so hang on, you said that I was wrong, then re-inforce it using the same 'market' bullshit
[07:54:07] <moazamraja> richlowe: mmmm, crack.
[07:54:18] <ormandj> e^ipi: i've dealt with kaiwai many times before
[07:54:22] <ormandj> i'm quite aware of who he is
[07:54:42] <moazamraja> kaiwai: wow dude, yer famous.
[07:54:51] <jmcp> or would that be "infamous"
[07:54:57] <kaiwai> g4lt-sb100: well good for them, let their ego's expand
[07:55:00] <moazamraja> either way :)
[07:55:06] <kaiwai> moazamraja: or infamous
[07:55:15] <ormandj> kaiwai: "market" bullshit is what makes companies profitable vs. non-profitable, i'd wager we're going ok. (of course, all of this conversation has been an unofficial personal view)
[07:55:37] <ormandj> i wouldn't even go so far as infamous, just irritating enough to be visible on osnews
[07:55:38] <g4lt-sb100> ormandj, my suggestion: if you want wpa_supplicant working on intel, start writing
[07:55:47] <ormandj> g4lt-sb100: i've gathered as much :) thanks
[07:55:54] <WickedWicky> printf("Hello WPA\n");
[07:55:54] <kaiwai> ormandj: irritating how?
[07:56:10] <WickedWicky> uh oh... this is gonna be ugly
[07:56:13] <ormandj> na
[07:56:16] <moazamraja> ormandj: or, seriously, show up at the Sept OpenSolaris conference in Santa Cruz
[07:56:17] * WickedWicky gets the popcorn
[07:56:18] <ormandj> i'm out of here, not worth the time :)
[07:56:19] <WickedWicky> cat fight!
[07:56:22] <ormandj> thanks all of you that helped
[07:56:24] <moazamraja> ormandj: make a case for it, etc.
[07:56:37] <kaiwai> I know we should all bow down and worship the almight programmer! oh how I am not worthy to be in your presence *rolls eyes*
[07:56:39] <WickedWicky> ormandj: come back any time for more crack talk
[07:56:54] <ormandj> moazamraja: i'll just find somebody who actually works on this stuff in sun and talk to them directly, this is pretty pointless :p
[07:57:01] <ormandj> laptop-discuss, here i come (thanks richlowe!)
[07:57:02] <moazamraja> ormandj: that's what i just said
[07:57:18] <moazamraja> ormandj: the sept santa cruz conference will have a lot of those ppl there
[07:57:18] <ormandj> kaiwai: i'm not even a programmer
[07:57:27] <ormandj> moazamraja: i'm not based in CA
[07:57:32] <moazamraja> and it'll be 'indiana' (desktop) focused
[07:57:33] <moazamraja> oh.
[07:57:35] <moazamraja> ok
[07:57:48] <ormandj> i'm only in CA for the next two weeks
[07:57:51] <g4lt-sb100> richlowe, great, now I get the whinging in my inbox too.  what'd I ever do to you?
[07:57:53] * kaiwai sits back and watches the indiana jihad errupt
[07:58:15] * WickedWicky is going for a saner idea and fetches some coffee
[07:58:21] <ormandj> WickedWicky: smart man ;)
[07:58:27] <ormandj> alright all of you, have a great night
[07:58:30] <kaiwai> I'll join you WickedWicky
[07:58:31] <WickedWicky> be good
[07:58:36] <ormandj> will do!
[07:58:38] <ormandj> ciao
[07:58:42] <WickedWicky> tchau
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[07:59:13] <moazamraja> damn coffee drinkers.
[07:59:24] <WickedWicky> coffee people are fun people
[07:59:24] <moazamraja> know ye not that TEA is the true wildmans drink!
[07:59:30] <WickedWicky> yea right
[07:59:37] <WickedWicky> I've lived in London/UK dude..
[07:59:38] * kaiwai celebrates
[07:59:39] <e^ipi> it's harder to geek out about tea
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[07:59:43] <kaiwai> the bug in B72 has been fixed :)
[07:59:44] <WickedWicky> I've seen those rawrish tea drinkers
[07:59:47] <WickedWicky> with skimmed milk
[07:59:50] <WickedWicky> how rawr
[08:00:00] <kaiwai> eewww, defiling tea in such a manner
[08:00:19] <palowoda> kaiwai: What bug id?
[08:00:20] <moazamraja> http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixville/357361700/    <-- RAWR TEA
[08:00:23] <g4lt-sb100> of course, him talking about infosec ust got wasteed a his ident: (n=root at c-24-6-175-223 dot hsd1.ca.comcast.net) just made his words about security rather lss than useful
[08:00:42] <moazamraja> hah
[08:00:58] <kaiwai> 6600169
[08:01:08] <kaiwai> my cd drive disappears when running B72
[08:01:24] <palowoda> Yep seen it.
[08:01:45] <kaiwai> I've chatted, he has got a fix, it has to be tested before it can be merged :)
[08:02:03] <palowoda> and respin
[08:02:36] <kaiwai> well, got the fix in the email if you need it, you'll need to build ONNV again though
[08:04:19] <palowoda> I can wait I have a few systems to catch up on.
[08:05:51] <kaiwai> basically it had to do with a performance improvement for Xen that was added but due to the way some drives return their status, they don't get detected properly
[08:06:30] <palowoda> I've noticed a lot of Xen putbacks.
[08:06:57] <palowoda> I just need 72 on one of my systems for the native nvidia sata framework.
[08:07:00] <kaiwai> yeah, it would be cool once it is merged (can Xen be merged?)
[08:07:23] <kaiwai> palowoda: I assume that the native nvidia sata framework will improve performance?
[08:07:48] <palowoda> I don't know.  That is what I wanted to test.
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[08:10:21] <kaiwai> oh well, hopefully OpenSound will be merged soon as well
[08:12:12] <palowoda> Gah, last time I tried installing OpenSound in build 69 it really messed up my system.
[08:13:28] <palowoda> It would not remove properly either.
[08:14:01] <palowoda> My guess is sometime in nov for opensound.
[08:15:53] <kaiwai> hmm, I haven't had any problems with opensound, what type of sound card?
[08:16:27] <palowoda> Just a via HD controller forget the model.
[08:16:49] <kaiwai> strange, should be justa standard ac97
[08:17:09] <g4lt-sb100> OSS, the hypercard of drivers ;P
[08:17:15] <palowoda> Yes but it didn't work at all after build 69, where it was for several builds before.
[08:17:30] <palowoda> I have a Turtle Beach card I could try.
[08:18:01] <kaiwai> ah, I don't particularly like VIA stuff, bad experiences with AMD duron processors and all
[08:18:20] <palowoda> But the duron isn't really a processor.
[08:18:41] <palowoda> It's a light blinky controller.
[08:19:10] <quasi> kaiwai: you seem to be nothing but complaining and bad experiences ;)
[08:19:42] <palowoda> Err what is wrong with complaining?
[08:19:50] <kaiwai> quasi: I wrote the book on it, "bad experiences and me: why my life sucks"
[08:21:55] <e^ipi> PEBKAC
[08:22:43] <palowoda> We should all log our complaints in boo. :)
[08:23:20] <kaiwai> hmm, e^ipi: and your book, "programming and me: the life of an emo"
[08:24:14] <e^ipi> palowoda: bug 694282: my back hurts today
[08:24:56] <Tempt> bug 694283: sick of kaiwai's complaints
[08:25:39] <quasi> Tempt: resolution: apply icbm
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[08:28:23] <palowoda> Heh, here cool screenshot of opensolaris caught with compiz before the screen grab could fade. http://www.fiver.net/misc/Screenshot.png
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[08:31:40] <WickedWicky> compiz = gimp? or?
[08:32:14] <palowoda> compiz is 3d effects for your window manager.  And some pretty cool ones too.
[08:32:23] <kaiwai> how stable is it?
[08:32:25] <WickedWicky> gotta give it a try then
[08:32:34] <palowoda> Hasn't crashed on me once.
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[08:32:47] <WickedWicky> prolly more stable than my current mind status
[08:33:00] <WickedWicky> HEY!
[08:33:06] <palowoda> You really need a hardware 3d opengl card for this stuff.
[08:33:06] <WickedWicky> I see myself talking!
[08:33:09] <WickedWicky> I am pink!
[08:33:10] <WickedWicky> wtf!
[08:33:15] <WickedWicky> or purple, what is it
[08:33:22] <WickedWicky> I wanna be blue :(
[08:33:48] <WickedWicky> Tempt is hulk green, very rawrish
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[08:34:20] <WickedWicky> wb eh
[08:34:23] <palowoda> The colors change in xchat you know.
[08:34:28] <WickedWicky> yes I know
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[08:34:42] <WickedWicky> I used Xchat under "the other" operating system
[08:35:12] <palowoda> Seems to work ok on opensolaris too, at least the blastwave one works.
[08:35:53] <WickedWicky> I am using irssi so I can run it in a screen and attach/dettach it when I go to work
[08:36:47] <e^ipi_> & with irssi-proxy, you can use whatever client you feel like without being disconnected from the network
[08:37:10] <WickedWicky> I havent looked into that tbh
[08:44:25] <madhatter> mornin'
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[09:08:49] <kjetilho> OOXML has failed: http://balanceofcowards.blogspot.com/2007/08/tracking-status-of-office-open-xml.html
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[09:12:26] <e^ipi_> only failed fast-track
[09:13:11] <quasi> kjetilho: good!
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[09:18:09] <Tempt> fist full of fail.
[09:18:21] <Tempt> Now to watch OpenDoc or whatever they call it fail.
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[09:18:47] <Doc> they open-sourced me?
[09:18:48] <Gekkko> why is it good?
[09:19:28] <jmcp> Gekkko: OOXML is MS' attempt at an "open" standard XML format
[09:19:43] <Gekkko> oh yeah
[09:19:51] <e^ipi_> it didn't fail, it just isn't going fast-track
[09:19:54] <Gekkko> the OO put me off.
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[09:22:19] <ofu> U4 is out
[09:22:45] <e^ipi> it's still perfectly plausible that microsoft will get it's iso certification, it just has to go through whatever regular channels ISO has
[09:22:45] <trochej> Wooohooo
[09:22:57] <quasi> ofu: excellent!
[09:23:21] <jmcp> ofu: on sun.com/downloads?
[09:23:27] <jmcp> it's about bloody time
[09:23:41] <ofu> http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/get.jsp
[09:23:58] <ofu> hrmpf, just 3mbytes/sec
[09:24:09] <jmcp> all that pent-up demand....
[09:26:45] <kjetilho> someone torrent it
[09:27:01] <Tpenta> sure, if you want sun to lose their export licence
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[09:35:18] <ofu> hmmmm, someone tell me about the WINDOWS ONLY version of sol10U4
[09:35:32] <ofu> i cant believe the compression is that good
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[09:35:57] <ofu> 1217.51 MByte for the windows version, almost 2400 mbyte for the gzipped iso
[09:36:38] <hali> it uses the windows kernel for extra stability
[09:36:39] <infidel> Triskelios: did you vaio come with vista?
[09:37:06] <Triskelios> infidel: no, windows xp
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[09:37:45] <infidel> Triskelios: have you about any issues dual booting with vista?
[09:37:59] <Triskelios> infidel: I don't use windows
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[09:38:17] <infidel> Triskelios: i don't blame you
[09:39:25] <Triskelios> the only annoying bit is the BIOS updates and firmware flashes, I have a windows pe live CD for that
[09:45:20] <Doomshammer> any news when 8/07 will be released?
[09:45:33] <ofu> now!
[09:45:39] <Doomshammer> huh?
[09:45:44] <Doomshammer> really?
[09:45:47] <ofu> its available
[09:45:51] <Doomshammer> awesome :)
[09:45:53] <Doomshammer> thanks!
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[09:53:50] <jo_devR> hi, i have a process that runs in the background but keeps dying, are there any logs i can look at, or a way to make restart automatically, i looked into smf but seemed very complicated
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[10:00:16] <CIA-26> an207044: 6231883 ipfilter service lacks refresh method, 6561278 pressing 'q' to quit ipfstat -t will cause underlying bash and tcsh to terminate but not ksh
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[10:01:49] <palowoda> Maybe the process your talking about has log files. You could always truss the process to see where it dies.
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[10:04:48] <palowoda> By the way are we suppose to play twenty questions what the process is?
[10:05:17] <Tempt> Yes, twenty questions.
[10:05:28] <Tempt> I'm thinking of a process.
[10:05:37] <palowoda> First question: Is your process bigger than a bread box?
[10:07:17] <Tempt> Yes, my process is bigger than a breadbox.
[10:07:40] <palowoda> Ok is it running on AIX?
[10:07:56] <Cyrille> is it smaller than a car?
[10:07:56] <Tempt> No, my process is not running on AIX (IBM won't sell my a pSeries)
[10:08:03] <Tempt> My process is smaller than a car, yes.
[10:08:43] <palowoda> Is your process the color purple?
[10:08:57] <Tempt> No, my process is not purple (nor cowish)
[10:09:08] <Cyrille> did you try and write a script which loops to restart your process when it fails since you can't be bothered figuring out why it dies in the first place and "smf is hard"?
[10:09:23] <kjetilho> is your process based on democratic principles?
[10:09:23] <Cyrille> is it due?
[10:09:39] <Tempt> My process is not based on democratic principles, and my process doesn't fall over.
[10:09:59] <palowoda> kjetilho: Bush is pres, what are you talking about.
[10:10:40] <palowoda> Can you process be flush without lose of revenue?
[10:10:55] <Tempt> Yes, my process can be flushed without loss of revenue.
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[10:11:21] <palowoda> Does your process still consume more power than you want it too?
[10:11:39] <Tempt> No, my process does not consume more power than I want it to.
[10:12:05] <palowoda> Do you have large funds in your paypal account to transfer to me?
[10:12:20] <palowoda> Or your process I mean
[10:12:33] <Tempt> Hoho, my process has no paypal funds.
[10:12:59] <palowoda> Answer: Your process is dying from lack of funds.
[10:13:36] <palowoda> How did I do?
[10:14:01] <Tempt> My process is about to die, but not from lack of funds :)
[10:14:34] <Tempt> This really is very silly.
[10:14:41] <kaiwai> hmm, we are all but process's in the UNIX of life
[10:14:42] <palowoda> So was the presentation of the question.
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[10:14:50] <Tempt>   oracle   315     1   0   Aug 27 ?           4:30 ora_lgwr_apex
[10:14:57] <Tempt> Have a process ;)
[10:15:27] <Tempt> No, we are all but files on the filesystem of life, and damn I wish I could rm some files from time to time ;)
[10:15:36] <palowoda> Oracle only runs on Linux.
[10:15:58] <WickedWicky> back
[10:16:12] <WickedWicky> and no it doesnt
[10:16:13] <kaiwai> WickedWicky: was it as good for you as it was for me?
[10:16:17] <WickedWicky> well
[10:16:33] <trochej> palowoda: And it drives cars only on Solaris
[10:16:34] <trochej> :)
[10:16:48] <WickedWicky> taking in account that I am in the train now with a new Creative Zen Video:M 60GB and that I can claim money back for my Ipod from the insurance, ya
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[10:17:12] <kaiwai> hmm, that zen should work with solaris
[10:17:21] <kaiwai> assuming that mtp compiles nicely
[10:17:30] <WickedWicky> so did the Ipod, before i forgot it in the bus
[10:17:39] * Tempt shakes head
[10:17:45] <Tempt> I should catch the bus with you some time.
[10:18:04] <WickedWicky> it wasnt a good day that day
[10:18:09] <kaiwai> I'm waiting till flash stops sucking so much
[10:18:09] <WickedWicky> Sony K800i, Ipod 80GB
[10:18:16] <Tempt> Daamn
[10:18:22] <Tempt> I need a new phone.
[10:18:31] <kaiwai> what type do you have now?
[10:18:48] <Tempt> Although my 6600 has a dead keyboard, it still boots and powers up under water. For the fifth time. That thing has a long lasting soul.
[10:18:54] <ofu> can anybody tell me where to find faster mirrors for u4? 100kbytes/sec sucks
[10:18:55] <Tempt> Well, I'm currently using a Motorola L6
[10:18:57] <WickedWicky> but apparantly I have an insurance that covers loss/theft for the ipod
[10:18:58] <kjetilho> Tempt: I think you got your word order jumbled, "a new need, Iphone"
[10:19:01] <Tempt> also known as my emergency backup phone
[10:19:10] <palowoda> What is u4?
[10:19:13] <Tempt> Fuck the iPhones
[10:19:13] <Doomshammer> ofu: got 1.5MBytes/Sek
[10:19:28] <ofu> x86 iso is done, but sparc is so slow...
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[10:19:44] <Doomshammer> got it...
[10:19:44] <Doomshammer> sparc is still pending ;-)
[10:19:58] <Tempt> Apple did such a good job, developing a product that only works in one country with one telco.
[10:20:03] <Tempt> I mean, nice one guys, nice.
[10:20:20] <Doomshammer> who cares 'bout apple?
[10:20:32] <Tempt> At the end of the day I'm a little too rough on my phones to spend that kind of cash. I'd buy an N95, which I really like the look of, but I know it'd just get trashed too quickly.
[10:20:35] <Doomshammer> that fricking thing isn't even able to work with UMTS
[10:20:40] <WickedWicky> apples are tasty, especialy golden delicious
[10:20:43] <kaiwai> is there an eta on the b70 respin?
[10:20:50] <Tempt> Granny Smith, man, much better.
[10:21:09] <kaiwai> Pacific Rose is nice
[10:21:10] <quasi> ofu: I'm getting 1M from sdlc-esd
[10:21:36] <Tempt> Man, E*Trade are teh suck. I just got an email from them that looks just like a phishing scam.
[10:21:42] <Tempt> I mean, "log in and update your account" indeed.
[10:21:59] <Tempt> Having that sort of shit sent in legitimate email is what paves the road for phishing scams.
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[10:26:35] <kaiwai>  So long farewell, auf weidersehen good-bye
[10:26:44] <kaiwai> reboot time
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[10:27:57] <palowoda> Maybe his machine won't reboot.
[10:29:01] <Tempt> maybe it'll catch fire
[10:30:55] <palowoda> They don't import fire in NZ.
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[10:53:34] <timsf> morning everyone
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[11:00:13] <delphi1000> hi buddy
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[11:40:56] <ofu> now i finished my u4 downloads... took quite a long time
[11:50:53] <iMax> hmm...50k/s for me :(
[11:59:03] <infidel> how do i configure the screen resolution?
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[12:02:48] <tomww> infidel: the desktop-resoultion of the gnome-desktop (on x86 or on sparc?) ?
[12:03:02] <asyd> \_o<
[12:03:46] <infidel> tomww: on x86, gnome only gives me 1024 x 768, i have a wide screen
[12:04:37] <asyd> funny, docs.sun.com still mentions 07/07
[12:04:40] <tomww> hmm. maybe your graphicscard is used with the vesa modes. are you shure, that your graphicscard is running with the right driver?
[12:05:14] <infidel> tomww: no, actually i'm not i have an intel 965
[12:05:24] <tomww> look at the logfile in /var/log/Xorg.0.log
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[12:06:05] <tomww> what solaris/opensolaris release do you use?
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[12:06:30] <infidel> tomww: nevada 70 i think
[12:06:42] <infidel> tomww: the developers edition
[12:07:05] <tomww> infidel: /etc/release should tell you, but you have a recent one.
[12:07:14] <infidel> yeah snv 70
[12:07:33] <infidel> tomww: i'm looking for console
[12:07:48] <infidel> ok i found it
[12:08:24] <infidel> solaris community edition snv_70 x86
[12:10:27] <infidel> xorg.conf says vesa
[12:10:55] <Triskelios> infidel: what happens if you start X without an xorg.conf?
[12:11:50] <infidel> Triskelios: should i mv the xorg.conf and try it?
[12:12:43] <Triskelios> yes. if it fails to start afterward, replace it and 'svcadm clear gdm'
[12:12:58] <Triskelios> all the autoconfig stuff should still be working, though...
[12:13:04] <Tempt> u4 downloads ..
[12:13:12] <Tempt> you mean they've actually released it?
[12:13:21] <infidel> ok
[12:13:29] <Triskelios> also, if you have the i965GM (not regular i965) chip, you might have to wait for the intel-2.x driver in snv_72
[12:13:56] <palowoda> Please don't look at Solaris at anything less than 19200x1200.  It just spoils the fun.
[12:14:05] <infidel> Triskelios: i believe it is gm
[12:14:17] <Triskelios> infidel: this the VAIO?
[12:14:26] <infidel> Triskelios: yeah
[12:16:27] <palowoda> Tempt: You mean you didn't check the SDLC?
[12:17:32] <Tempt> I figured it'd be another six weeks at least ;)
[12:17:49] <Tempt> Instead, less than a *week* after I racked a new colo server with u3, u4 is released.
[12:17:50] <tomww> infidel: yes, moving xorg.conf out of the way would be the best for the first shot.
[12:17:53] <Tempt> Aaaarse.
[12:18:08] <tomww> Tempt: liveupgrade it :-)
[12:18:21] <Tempt> oh yeah, right, that's a BRILLIANT idea.
[12:18:24] <palowoda> Tempt: U4 even runs on the PPC now.
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[12:19:07] <Tempt> Does it run on my old Amiga too?
[12:19:36] <palowoda> The Amiga is IBM's objective.
[12:20:09] * tomww wonders what is faster, Amigo or ppc hmmmm.
[12:20:25] <infidel> i moved xorg.conf but everything looks the same, like it's not using it
[12:23:47] <tomww> you have a pasetbin of /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
[12:23:54] <infidel> can i update this new install and get the intell driver?
[12:25:02] <infidel> tomww: na it's not connected to the internet, is wireless a pain to setup? or i could just move the cable off this linux box
[12:25:20] <Triskelios> tomww: i965GM isn't supported in i810
[12:25:47] <Triskelios> infidel: well, a workaround is to edit the i810 binaries and add your card's ID
[12:26:27] <Triskelios> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/fox/ will let you build X, but that's kind of a pain...
[12:26:59] <infidel> Triskelios: what's the release date for 72?
[12:27:12] <Triskelios> infidel: I can try doing the edits (had to do that for my i945GM until around b66), hold on
[12:27:20] <palowoda> What end of Sept.
[12:27:29] <infidel> cool
[12:29:02] <palowoda> Just guessing 71 is out within the week one of sept. And 72 in the later half of the month.  It should be about right.
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[12:31:30] <tomww> infidel: wireless schould not be too difficult to setup. I use the old style inetmenu, but nwam / wificonfig should help much
[12:31:47] <palowoda> infidel: keep up on http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/x_win/changelogs/changelogs-nv_70/
[12:31:52] <infidel> tomww: ok thanks
[12:32:46] <palowoda> Actually I thought dladm with the gld3 and wireless helped quite a bit.
[12:33:18] <Gekkko> http://aklemai.com/albums/motovation/motovational_futurama.jpg
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[12:33:35] <infidel> palowoda: i was looking at that, i was reading something about being pushed to the gate, what does that mean?
[12:34:49] <palowoda> The gate meaning it's going to be integrated into a build.
[12:34:59] <infidel> oh ok
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[12:36:04] <Berny> hey glynn
[12:36:24] <Gman> hey Berny
[12:37:26] <Triskelios> infidel: can you run /usr/X11/bin/scanpci and check if your video chip's PCI ID is 8086,2a02?
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[12:40:38] <infidel> Triskelios: 0x2a03
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[12:41:24] <infidel> Triskelios: well it does say 2a02 also
[12:41:41] <Triskelios> infidel: okay
[12:41:47] <infidel> Triskelios: cardnum 0x02
[12:49:01] <ofu> jumpstart asks me if i want to use nfsv4, whats the keyword for the profile?
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[12:50:32] <palowoda> Left or right profile?
[12:51:01] <Stric> scripts/patch:touch /a/etc/.NFS4inst_state.domain
[12:51:36] <ofu> Stric: thx
[12:52:20] <seanmcg> ofu: keyword in sysidcfg would be nfs4_domain=<some domain> for jumpstart
[12:52:28] <Stric> or that ;)
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[12:52:52] <ofu> what if i dont have an nfs4_domain? nfs4_domain="" ?
[12:53:05] <Stric> if you just want to ignore the question, my method works
[12:53:31] <Stric> it might not be Correct<tm>, but you don't get the v4 domain question at bootup at least
[12:57:10] <rasputnik>  ofu nfs4_domain=dynamic worked for me
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[12:59:19] <ofu> ah, thats nice, I think I will use that... maybe I will use nfsv4 in the future
[13:01:48] <rasputnik> ofu: can't say I know much about it. I hear its 'nfs with the crappy bit fixed'
[13:02:32] <ofu> now my first official U4-system is installed, fine
[13:03:01] <palowoda> Good now to upgrade to build 70.
[13:03:59] <palowoda> You know U4 is so old these days.
[13:04:19] <ofu> harhar
[13:04:26] <rasputnik> is U4 out today?
[13:04:32] <onga> yep
[13:04:35] <quasi> rasputnik: yes
[13:04:48] <quasi> already downloaded
[13:04:53] <rasputnik> sweet. a lot of good stuff in Nevada got backported, looking at the changelog
[13:05:16] <quasi> yeah, much goodness
[13:05:28] <Triskelios> infidel: around?
[13:05:29] <palowoda> Well semi goodness.
[13:05:38] <infidel> yeah
[13:06:12] <quasi> I've been waiting very long for the zone memory capping bits
[13:06:19] <Triskelios> infidel: http://trisk.acm.jhu.edu/i810-edit.pl
[13:06:22] <palowoda> Old news.
[13:06:44] <rasputnik> gaah, bloody DB2 content manager. Its solaris support seems to consist of a line in /etc/inittab
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[13:06:56] <Triskelios> infidel: perl i810-edit.pl < /usr/X11/lib/modules/drvers/i810_drv.so > i810_drv.so.new
[13:07:07] <infidel> Triskelios: access forbidden
[13:07:24] <Triskelios> doh
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[13:08:55] <Triskelios> http://trisk.acm.jhu.edu/i810-edit
[13:09:09] <Triskelios> wonder why it doesn't like the filename...
[13:09:15] <rasputnik> quasi: rcapd out of the zone? yeah, it's great - means you can cap stuff like linux branded zones too
[13:09:45] <richlowe> that's one of the scariest scripts I've ever seen.
[13:09:46] <richlowe> well done.
[13:10:01] * rasputnik hopes the iscsi target is solid now
[13:10:04] <richlowe> not even adb -w?
[13:10:14] <infidel> Triskelios: i just run this script?
[13:10:36] <Triskelios> infidel: passing the current driver as stdin and outputting to a new file
[13:11:18] <richlowe> and not asking for help if and when the machine panics afterward.
[13:11:19] <infidel> Triskelios: ok cool thanks
[13:11:34] <quasi> rasputnik: yeah, that's the thing - helps avoid one zone killing all
[13:11:38] <ofu> oh, U4 has e1000g version 5.1.8, interesting
[13:11:49] <Triskelios> infidel: then try choosing Driver "i810" in xorg.conf
[13:12:02] <infidel> Triskelios: ok
[13:12:17] <Triskelios> (back up the existing i810_drv.so and replace it with the new one)
[13:12:38] <infidel> ok
[13:13:37] <palowoda> e1000g is at rev 5.1.10.
[13:14:08] <ofu> 5.0.11 lost packets
[13:14:23] <palowoda> You wish
[13:14:25] <Triskelios> infidel: actually, try the script on /usr/X11/lib/modules/dri/i965_dri.so also
[13:14:41] <infidel> ok
[13:16:25] <palowoda> ofu: Nothing was fixed between .08 and .10 so don't worry. :)
[13:16:48] <palowoda> It' was just a happy number upgrade.
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[13:24:35] <Triskelios> infidel: any luck?
[13:24:42] <Triskelios> infidel: I gotta go in a minute
[13:25:39] <infidel> Triskelios: how do i do the standard input of the file?
[13:27:17] <Triskelios> perl i810-edit < /usr/X11/lib/modules/drivers/i810_drv.so > i810_drv.so && perl i810-edit <  /usr/X11/lib/modules/dri/i965_dri.so > i965_dri.so
[13:27:40] <infidel> thanks
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[13:34:00] <infidel> ouch 0 bits in the new files
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[13:34:48] <PerterB> only 0 bits, or some 1 bits too? ;)
[13:35:05] <infidel> 0
[13:35:37] <Triskelios> infidel: works perfectly here, did you typo?
[13:36:15] <infidel> Triskelios: no
[13:36:26] <infidel> i used the whole path though
[13:36:43] <Triskelios> infidel: eh?
[13:36:59] <infidel> for output
[13:37:02] <Cyrille> I assume he sent the output to a full path instead of a local file
[13:37:28] <Triskelios> infidel: you can't use the same files for input and output, if you do that you'll destroy the files
[13:37:52] <infidel> oh
[13:37:59] <infidel> ok
[13:38:04] <infidel> let me try again
[13:38:11] <infidel> with the .backup files
[13:39:16] <infidel> ok that's better :)
[13:40:19] <infidel> Triskelios: which driver should i try first?
[13:40:34] <Triskelios> infidel: you need both files for i810
[13:41:06] <infidel> Triskelios: ok so in xorg.cong driver = i810?
[13:41:09] <infidel> ok
[13:41:14] <Triskelios> yes
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[13:52:59] <infidel> Triskelios: looks like it's loading all the modules out of the amd64 directory
[13:53:08] <Triskelios> infidel: ahh
[13:53:47] <Triskelios> infidel: the script should work on those, too
[13:54:02] <infidel> ok i'll run it on those
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[14:01:57] <infidel> Triskelios: you rock
[14:02:44] <Triskelios> it worked? cool
[14:02:59] <infidel> Triskelios: thank you very much
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[14:06:49] <infidel> just need to config my wifi now
[14:09:57] <ofu> mpstat tells me i need a bigger display
[14:11:06] <tomww> ofu: don't blame mpstat for that :-)
[14:11:21] <tomww> infidel: contrats
[14:11:56] <infidel> tomww: it was all Triskelios
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[14:15:51] <infidel> tomww: inetmenu no valid ibterface
[14:15:59] <infidel> interface
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[14:16:13] <infidel> must not recognise my card
[14:16:45] <tomww> infidel: try ifconfig -a plumb to see if the driver ist loaded
[14:16:54] <infidel> ok
[14:17:01] <tomww> and then ifconfig -a after that
[14:17:12] <tomww> will show the interfaces found
[14:17:41] <infidel> just lo0
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[14:19:26] <tomww> do you know the type of wireless card in your system?
[14:20:09] <tomww> some wireless drivers are available in 32-bit only
[14:20:18] <infidel> intel 3945
[14:20:53] <badcoder> aynone has working usb ralink chipset wireless
[14:20:59] <badcoder> ural driver in fbsd
[14:21:19] <tomww> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/laptop/wireless/wpi/
[14:21:57] <tomww> but, the driver should be integrated in your OS release... hmmm
[14:22:40] <tomww> is the wireless card switched ob by one of those small switches on your notebook?
[14:23:23] <infidel> yeah
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[14:26:08] <tomww> if you follw the istructions on the link above, does it work now?
[14:26:20] <infidel> let me check
[14:27:19] <tomww> scroll down the page for the wificonfig copmmands. there should be domething with dladm too, but with this and wifi I'm not familiar already.
[14:27:28] <infidel> ifconfig wpi0 plumb doesn't find it
[14:28:38] <tomww> so, if you do a /usr/X11/bin/scanpci -v an look for the pci-ids (vendor, card) and try finding that in /etc/driver_aliases, any matches?
[14:29:33] <infidel> checking
[14:32:49] <infidel> i do have one card 0x8086 card 0x1100 that is unknown
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[14:34:05] <Tempt>  Urk
[14:34:13] <Tempt> redelegating domains is the ugliest part of DNS
[14:37:50] <tomww> infidel: { 0x8086, 0x1100, "82815/EP/P", "Host-Hub Interface Bridge / DRAM Ctrlr" } ,
[14:38:33] <tomww> prtconf -v | less   does this have pointers to your wireless ethernetcard?
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[14:41:13] <tomww> infidel: look also for this: pciex8086,4222.8086.1000  maybe the card is shown through this path
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[14:41:26] <infidel> ok
[14:42:52] <tomww> the pciex8086,4222 and pciex8086,4227 are the pci assigned to the "wpi" driver
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[14:49:34] <StylusEater_Work> hi. How does one volunteer to become a campus ambassador?
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[14:52:01] <LLcoolM> hi, does gnusolaris work in a virtualbox vm?
[14:52:41] <infidel> tomww: ok i found something
[14:53:25] <infidel> pciex8086,4229.8086.1100
[14:53:51] <infidel> value=Network controller
[14:54:04] <tomww> you might kill your system with that (reparable), but try loading the driver onto this pci-id
[14:54:12] <infidel> syas driver not attached
[14:54:23] <tomww> update_drv -a -i '"pciex8086,4229.8086.1100"' wpi
[14:54:58] <tomww> to check, this should give an additional line in /etc/drver_aliases loking like thie other wpi lines, only with the new numbers
[14:55:18] * tomww needs spellchecker for irssi :-)
[14:55:31] <infidel> hehe
[14:56:16] <tomww> update_drv -a -i '"classspellchecker,personal"' spellcheck64
[14:56:28] <infidel> do i use the quotes?
[14:57:10] <axisys> is there a faster mirror for ON download?
[14:57:14] <tomww> with the -i '"..."'  exacktly these quotes please :-)
[14:57:57] <axisys> i get 30K/s .. painfuly slow.. my network bandwidth can take 10M/s .. i know that for sure
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[14:59:09] <infidel> ok it returned back to the prompt
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[14:59:33] <tomww> try a ifconfig -a plumb and then a ifconfig -a   -  is it there?
[15:00:14] <CIA-26> fb209375: 6497117 usba make failed when just bringover usr/src/uts/common/io/usb
[15:02:09] <infidel> damn just lo0
[15:03:49] <tomww> if you do a modinfo | grep wpi
[15:04:18] <tomww> there is an instance-number on the very left. you could ether reboot or try unloading/loading the wpi module.
[15:04:32] <tomww> modunload -i instancenumber
[15:04:52] <tomww> and then modload wpi    and see what messages/dmesg tells you
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[15:05:50] <doc_nl> axisys: everybody is downloading sol10u4 atm ;)
[15:06:35] <infidel> ok
[15:08:20] <infidel> can't load module: no such file or directory, weird huh it was there
[15:08:43] <infidel> i guess i should reboot?
[15:09:57] <axisys> doc_nl: wait that is out? i was referring to ON
[15:11:15] <quasi> axisys: yeah, 8/07 has been out for hours
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[15:11:39] <axisys> quasi: nice!
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[15:12:38] <infidel> i rebooted and i keep getting an error wpi saying time out
[15:12:45] <axisys> where do I find whats new in u4?
[15:13:05] <axisys> before I download that is
[15:13:40] <quasi> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/817-0547?l=en
[15:14:13] <hile_> IP instances, for one
[15:14:20] <hile_> krb API released for two
[15:14:26] <quasi> rcap for zones
[15:14:41] <quasi> LU for zones as well iirc
[15:14:52] <Tempt> Question is, do I upgrade my workstation now, or do I wait for a couple of weeks to see if there's going to be another respin?
[15:14:57] <axisys> LU for zones.. woohoo! i needed that sooo bad
[15:15:12] <tomww> infidel: so, modinfo | grep wpi has no matches?  then I'm out of ides, except trying to add "frkit", but I don't think this helps too much.
[15:15:25] <infidel> no it did have a match
[15:15:29] <doc_nl> Tempt: update now and live on the edge ;)
[15:15:32] <axisys> rcap for zones.. man how do I contain my excitement :P
[15:15:43] <tomww> infidel: the hardware- or BIOS-switch for the wireless-card is in position "On"?
[15:15:51] <infidel> yeah
[15:15:52] <quasi> Tempt: U4beta worked pretty well a couple of moths ago during the beta
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[15:16:01] <axisys> hile_: what does IP instances give ?
[15:16:06] <Tempt> I didn't have any hassles during the beta, I guess.
[15:16:36] * doc_nl wonders if the jds interface of u4 has been updated aswell, because u3 is terrible compared to the later snv's
[15:16:58] <Gekkko[PDA]> so many abbreviations!
[15:17:09] <hile_> allows non-global zones  to have their own full TCP stack instead of sharing with global
[15:17:10] <delewis> doc_nl: nope.
[15:17:22] <delewis> Sun won't be able to upgrade the version of Gnome until the next minor release.
[15:17:28] <delewis> and that'll be Solaris 11.
[15:17:30] <Gekkko[PDA]> what's u*
[15:17:33] <doc_nl> too bad
[15:17:48] <Gekkko[PDA]> u4, u3?
[15:17:53] <doc_nl> update
[15:17:56] <delewis> the version of Gnome Sun is currently shipping with Solaris 10 is what was available when the gate for Solaris 10 was frozen for release.
[15:18:12] <delewis> so, it's a roughly 3-4 year-old gnome.
[15:18:13] <axisys> hile_: no way! wow! so i could run route add w/in the zone?
[15:18:16] <Gekkko[PDA]> snv?
[15:19:12] <doc_nl> solaris nevada
[15:19:21] <Gekkko[PDA]> thought so.
[15:19:36] <Gekkko[PDA]> the new one being indiana?
[15:19:49] <Gekkko[PDA]> sin? :P
[15:20:02] <quasi> another important bit is iscsi target
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[15:20:30] <infidel> tomww: i'm going to see what happens when i use a lan cable
[15:20:35] <infidel> bbiab
[15:20:57] * LeftWing is looking forward to a bundled Samba build with Krb/LDAP (ADS) and ZFS ACL support.
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[15:24:42] <tsoome> that would be nice
[15:25:03] <tsoome> only reason why i still need to compile samba myself
[15:28:00] <LeftWing> Indeed.
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[15:34:51] <tomww> any SFE recipes for that? (samba, ldap, zfsacl)
[15:35:28] <rasputnik> LeftWing: is that on the roadmap?
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[15:36:06] <LeftWing> http://blogs.sun.com/timthomas/entry/samba_and_swat_in_solaris
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[15:39:38] <quasi> spiffy - that sounds almost useful
[15:40:12] <rasputnik> oh wow it's in U4! Sorry, I saw the post but assumed it was Nevada
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[15:41:35] <kohju> when is u4 release?
[15:42:14] <PerterB> now, apparently
[15:42:45] <doc_nl> but getting it is hard... download speed is 10KB/s here
[15:42:50] <kohju> !
[15:43:50] <Gekkko[PDA]> bittoga.
[15:43:55] <kohju> WoW!
[15:44:11] <Gekkko[PDA]> w0w.
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[15:48:06] <quasi> doc_nl: you should have been up earlier - I got the whole thing at >1MB/s ;)
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[15:50:12] <Gekkko[PDA]> u4 is for Solaris 10 right?
[15:50:21] <kohju> yes.
[15:50:30] <Gekkko[PDA]> k.
[15:50:39] <quasi> Gekkko[PDA]: it _is_ solaris 10
[15:51:21] <kohju> Solaris10 8/07.
[15:51:29] <Gekkko[PDA]> yes.
[15:51:40] <Tempt> No, is Solaris 2.6 08/07
[15:52:18] <LeftWing> OH NOES.
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[15:52:49] <WickedWicky> lol
[15:52:56] <ofu> does it come with zfs?
[15:53:08] <tomww> lol
[15:53:18] <kohju> zfs v4.
[15:53:34] <Gekkko[PDA]> is zfs cddl?
[15:53:45] <Gekkko[PDA]> yes.
[15:53:48] <Gekkko[PDA]> >.>
[15:53:48] <tomww> mobile zfs v6
[15:53:51] * quasi can see a 2.5 media kit
[15:54:11] <rasputnik> quasi: are you inside a skip?
[15:54:16] <tomww> quasi: bettr go with 2.4, roughly tested now
[15:54:18] <quasi> rasputnik: at work
[15:54:30] <doc_nl> quasi: using it too put your coffee mug on it?
[15:54:30] <PerterB> do you get wafers with it?
[15:54:37] <rasputnik> same thing for me. my office mate lives like a student
[15:54:39] <Gekkko[PDA]> mobile zfs?
[15:55:02] <quasi> tomww: that'd have me opening boxes to figure out which one it is - only 2.5 and later have numbers on the box
[15:55:07] <kohju> 40kb/sec....orz
[15:55:11] <tomww> mobile zfs *would* be, wherever you are, you have access to your pool/filesystems, all encrypted
[15:55:17] <WickedWicky> PerterB: it's a filesystem, of course you dont get f-ing wafers with it
[15:55:21] <Gekkko[PDA]> nice.
[15:55:26] * Tempt applauds
[15:55:27] <WickedWicky> ZFS!!! Bloody ZFS!!
[15:55:32] <PerterB> WickedWicky: 10 points :)
[15:55:35] <Gekkko[PDA]> byes.
[15:55:49] <tomww> is ZFS evil? ask ...
[15:55:49] <WickedWicky> who doesn't know MP
[15:55:58] <PerterB> the young people, mostly
[15:56:34] <quasi> tomww: it is evil if you make your pay on veritas ;)
[15:57:01] <WickedWicky> ZFS is the most foul, cruel and bad tempered rodent you ever set eyes on mate
[15:57:28] <tomww> WickedWicky: I love such things
[15:57:35] <PerterB> and the smell..... oh my!
[15:57:36] <doc_nl> since mac os has zfs in leopard, we could have mobile zfs on the iphone ;)
[15:57:49] <Tempt> I saw ZFS bite someone the other day
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[15:57:56] <Tempt> nearly took 'is bleedin' arm right orff
[15:57:57] <PerterB> zfs on leopard was badly neutered, last I heard
[15:58:08] <delewis> read-only support.
[15:58:08] <tomww> okay, guys: Mobile ZFS (TM)
[15:58:15] <delewis> that's more than a neutering. :-)
[15:58:22] <PerterB> true :)
[15:58:23] <Tempt> They're going to put an extra 512mb of RAM in the iPhone to handle it
[15:58:42] <doc_nl> grin, they are going to drop mobile ip soon, and we start talking bout mobile zfs :o)
[15:58:59] <WickedWicky> I AM INVINCIBLE!
[15:59:16] <Tempt> WickedWicky: No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment
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[15:59:28] <WickedWicky> I can still bite you!
[15:59:46] <WickedWicky> and I am resting
[15:59:50] <PerterB> wouldn't it be simpler to use something like Coda and back-end it on zfs?
[15:59:50] <WickedWicky> pining for the fjords
[16:00:17] <Tempt> Beautiful plumage
[16:00:19] <CIA-26> danmcd: PSARC 2007/449 Detangle IPsec NAT Traversal, 6481450 nattymod calls putnext() on a freed queue., 6558864 remove nattymod, 6558870 Implement SA last-used time and idle actions, 6582318 "mandatory" is spelled wrong in pfiles, 6584011 save_assoc() gets confused w.r.t. "proto"., 6588015 Missing "encap udp" must be better diagnosed by ipseckey(1M)., 6595368 Need "ipsec-nat-t" in /etc/services, 6595877 ipseckey(1M) can produce output it can't read bac
[16:00:32] <mp3ters> wtf
[16:00:37] <Cyrille> now there's a commit.
[16:01:38] <tomww> doc_nl: mobile zfs can never die, since the big number of users
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[16:02:58] <WickedWicky> yay, I set fire on this place. Screaming ALBATROS out of the blue raises some eyebrows here
[16:03:10] <WickedWicky> sometimes I love the dull office ppl
[16:06:26] <PerterB> love it, one throwaway "wafers" comment on IRC and I have disrupted your office :)
[16:06:46] <Tempt> WickedWicky: I gather you don't have any choc ices, mate?
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[16:10:46] <WickedWicky> naw
[16:11:02] <WickedWicky> I have Milka tho
[16:11:07] <WickedWicky> with a purple cow printed on the bar
[16:11:16] <mp3ters> any idea why volmgr doenst start automatically when sol10 is booted?
[16:12:57] <quasi> mp3ters: volfs?
[16:13:07] <StylusEater_Work> what's the opensolaris mascot?
[16:13:21] <WickedWicky> a knight of Ni
[16:13:22] <Cyrille> an evil ZFS eating babies.
[16:13:26] <WickedWicky> or that
[16:13:28] <StylusEater_Work> ha
[16:14:15] <mp3ters> this > /etc/init.d/volmgt
[16:14:25] <WickedWicky> We opted for the Wicked Witch from the north, but she was too busy stalking dorothy
[16:15:20] <StylusEater_Work> seriously though... no mascot?
[16:15:32] <WickedWicky> not that I know of
[16:15:35] <StylusEater_Work> linux has the ornery but cute penguin...
[16:16:06] <StylusEater_Work> opensolaris has the welcoming but energetic sunflower?
[16:16:13] <monkey_squad> anything but the solaris sun would be an insult to me
[16:16:50] <StylusEater_Work> I know on the surface it's a trivial question but it's all about branding no?  :-)
[16:17:16] <holcomb> someone suggested a solar-system looking thing
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[16:17:28] <holcomb> sounded pretty nice.  no animals, just geometry
[16:18:03] <WickedWicky> look at the mascote some new DSL provider has here
[16:18:07] <WickedWicky> http://www.alice.nl/nl/residential/resources/index.html
[16:18:25] <holcomb> haha
[16:19:05] <WickedWicky> I hope she does residential installations
[16:19:13] <StylusEater_Work> ohh jeez
[16:19:21] <WickedWicky> ISRA point is in my masters bed room, follow me
[16:19:28] * StylusEater_Work is obviously not being taken seriously
[16:19:39] <WickedWicky> you are, there is no mascote
[16:20:04] <StylusEater_Work> I think it would be beneficial. But it's just my opinion...and I haven't even written code yet.
[16:20:20] <WickedWicky> what added value would a mascotte have?
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[16:20:37] <WickedWicky> besides being abused in logos saying how windows sucks and all
[16:20:45] <StylusEater_Work> instant brand association... friendliness to those intimidated by "unix"
[16:20:59] <WickedWicky> brand association? they cant even keep their naming scheme up
[16:21:07] <madhatter> Did anybody already mention that article based on an interview with Ian Murdock? http://tinyurl.com/29uqzp
[16:21:15] <StylusEater_Work> youngsters might be attracted to it...
[16:21:34] <quasi> madhatter: he's indiana, so not our friend ;)
[16:21:48] <StylusEater_Work> madhatter: yes.  I've read it.  :-)
[16:21:58] <madhatter> quasi: Why?
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[16:22:25] <madhatter> quasi: Will Project Indiana mean the end of OpenSolaris as it is today?
[16:22:40] <quasi> madhatter: go read the archive of this channel if you want to know
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[16:24:14] <Tempt> Solaris mascot used to be Scott McNealy
[16:24:38] <madhatter> quasi: I'd like to, but I am not in the mood for flipping through lots of lines from the log ;)
[16:25:12] <quasi> madhatter: too bad then
[16:25:16] <LeftWing> Use the --rant flag on grep.
[16:25:20] <asyd> anyone here use CAS?
[16:25:37] <madhatter> LeftWing: That might speed things up?
[16:25:53] <Tempt> Only on LeftWing's colourful grep
[16:26:10] <LeftWing> Tempt: Do I have a magical healing elixir too?
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[16:27:12] <madhatter> I get 99% of the log when using the rant flag tho ;)
[16:27:27] <nachox> morning
[16:27:28] <Tempt> LeftWing: Ooh, that could be handy.
[16:28:05] <Tempt> Mental note - write quick article about the pros/cons/real cons/nasty bits/politics/hatred/suffering of Indiana for such events
[16:28:13] * Tempt grins
[16:28:55] <LeftWing> You could fill several years worth of blog with just the whining from all sides, I suspect.
[16:29:14] <Tempt> Hey, disk space is cheap
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[16:29:22] <LeftWing> I think we need a new unit for the Web 2.0 age...
[16:29:24] <madhatter> Tempt: Bandwidth too
[16:29:24] <LeftWing> Blog Hours.
[16:29:25] <Tempt> LeftWing: Got your u4 downloading yet?
[16:29:39] <Tempt> Blog furlongs per fortnight
[16:29:40] <LeftWing> Tempt: I have part A of x86, and I'm sure part B will arrive some time this week.
[16:29:51] <bda> Damned lack of torrents.
[16:29:52] <Tempt> I was roaring it down at about 1200 k before
[16:29:55] <Tempt> now I'm getting around 12k
[16:29:55] <LeftWing> Part A & B of SPARC will probably also arrive before 2010.
[16:30:02] <Tempt> This is the release strat
[16:30:05] <Cyrille> blog.nights
[16:30:13] <doc_nl> same problem here... at 84% now
[16:30:15] * bda is getting a mighty 70k.
[16:30:24] <Tempt> They're still working on part B, so they trickle the download while they finish adding bits on the end
[16:30:27] <bda> ha
[16:30:29] <LeftWing> lol
[16:30:47] <holcomb> Transfer Rate: 2297 KBs
[16:30:51] * holcomb hides quickly
[16:30:58] <LeftWing> What I don't get is how the compression on the Windows-only EXE download works.  2-1 compression on what's already ZIPped is impressive.
[16:31:01] <Tempt> Anyway, how can we start a project to get /usr/bin/screen happening? What hoops must be jumped through?
[16:31:02] <LeftWing> I wonder if it uses ISO-specific knowledge.
[16:31:30] <WickedWicky> OH! screen integrated in osol?
[16:31:34] <Tempt> man
[16:31:41] <Tempt> if ksh93 can get in, surely we can have screen?
[16:31:43] <WickedWicky> 'that'd be like... so sweet
[16:31:45] <LeftWing> haha
[16:31:47] <Tempt> I mean, people actually use screen and all
[16:31:52] <WickedWicky> ya!
[16:31:59] <madhatter> Tempt: You are kiddin
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[16:32:22] <Tempt> Sick of having to install it.
[16:32:28] <Tempt> I want screen *everywhere*
[16:32:32] <vmlemon> Can't they just do a QNX and release a separate CD full of pre-compiled open/free stuff like screen?
[16:32:41] <tomww> at least we have screen-termcap infos...
[16:32:42] <Tempt> They already do
[16:32:57] <vmlemon> Aah, OK
[16:32:58] <Tempt> But I want screen in /usr/bin
[16:33:04] <madhatter> But that CD ain't full yet
[16:33:05] <Tempt> I want screen right there screening at everyone
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[16:33:17] <Doc> cd /usr/bin; ln -s ../sfw/bin/screen
[16:33:31] <tomww> me too, but im too quick using SFEscreen.spec. At least quicker then writing a request...
[16:33:36] <Tempt> Nobody else likes the idea? I'll go back to obscurity then.
[16:33:47] * Tempt vanishes
[16:33:55] <maxpil> anyone know if its possible to install a zone from a flash archive?
[16:34:00] <Doc> i have basically run screen continually for about 15 years now
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[16:35:18] <WickedWicky> screen rox and safed my life plenty of times
[16:35:25] <Doc>     root  2260     1   0   Apr 29 ?          14:42 screen
[16:35:31] <iMax> yeah screen support out of the box would be nice, although I do not like the scroll buffer of screen, or I just don't understand it :)
[16:35:45] <WickedWicky> ctrl+a ESC
[16:35:49] <WickedWicky> and you can scroll all you want
[16:35:52] <mp3ters> Any idea how to prevent volfs from mounting the boot slice on a removable hard drive?
[16:35:53] <Tempt> How do people survive without screen?
[16:35:58] <Tempt> Aha!
[16:36:05] <holcomb> neat
[16:36:07] <Tempt> That's why the linux types keep complaining about no virtual terminals!
[16:36:11] <iMax> exactly, but something like in irssi would be better (pgup, pgdown)
[16:36:14] <Tempt> They haven't discovered screen!
[16:36:24] <flyingparchment> iMax: it does support pgup/pgdown
[16:36:32] <elektronkind> I hate it when I accidentally hit cntl-a-s in screen :/
[16:36:37] <holcomb> shift-pageup seems to work for me in irssi+screen
[16:36:59] <iMax> flyingparchment: aha, not in my setup I think... *trying*
[16:37:08] <Tempt> For our next grand step, how about xterm-color in terminfo by default. Wouldn't that be fun?
[16:37:12] <flyingparchment> iMax: after ctrl-a esc, i mean
[16:37:45] <elektronkind> then use the arrow keys to scroll up/down. Hit esc when you're done.
[16:37:48] <LeftWing> Tempt: And rxvt
[16:37:48] <kjetilho> Tempt: I miss a virtual terminal when X is broken
[16:38:02] <holcomb> yeah
[16:39:01] <iMax> flyingparchment: ah ok, yeah, that might work, need to test this further :)
[16:39:22] <WickedWicky> how about porting multi-gnome-terminal to JDS
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[16:40:50] <kjetilho> multi-gnome-terminal is obsolete
[16:40:59] <WickedWicky> yes but it's nice
[16:41:24] <kjetilho> it might be easier to compile on JDS' old GNOME libraries than a fresh gnome-terminal, yeah
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[16:42:00] <WickedWicky> the thing I like about multi-gnome-terminal is that you can have one window with three terminals in it for example
[16:42:08] <WickedWicky> then when you need a fourth one, you split the screen
[16:42:53] <Tempt> LeftWing: mrxvt, perhaps
[16:44:07] <kjetilho> WickedWicky: use M-x shell in Emacs :-)
[16:45:04] <Tempt> kjetilho: I'm going to pretend I didn't hear that
[16:45:27] <holcomb> gnome-terminal should be banished
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[16:45:39] <Tempt> gnome-terminal should be taken out back and shot.
[16:46:01] <holcomb> maybe MAYBE brian cantrill could fix it with a team of the brightest minds of our age
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[16:46:30] <flyingparchment> gnome-terminal should be replaced with konsole.  ;-)
[16:46:30] <Tempt> naah
[16:46:33] <Tempt> No point
[16:46:35] <alanc> xterm-color went into termcap/terminfo a few nevada builds ago
[16:46:37] <Tempt> if you want tabs, mrxvt
[16:46:39] <Tempt> else rxvt
[16:46:45] <WickedWicky> I dont want tabs
[16:46:49] <WickedWicky> I want split windows
[16:46:52] <kjetilho> rxvt doesn't even have Tektronix-mode!
[16:46:55] <Tempt> screen does splits
[16:46:58] <WickedWicky> the point is looking at several screens at the same time
[16:47:00] <WickedWicky> yes
[16:47:02] <kjetilho> XTerm FTW
[16:47:02] * timsf is not looking forward to discussions about nasally fitted fire at the indiana dev summit
[16:47:03] <WickedWicky> so there we go
[16:47:07] <WickedWicky> xterm + screen
[16:47:12] <WickedWicky> SCREEN ppl SCREEN
[16:47:27] * WickedWicky is gonna start a campaign
[16:47:30] <LeftWing> timsf: Hahaha.
[16:47:30] <Cyrille> nasally fitted fire?
[16:47:31] * Tempt hands timsf some leaves
[16:47:44] <timsf> hhgtg reference
[16:47:56] <WickedWicky> timsf: you could just get very pissed and let it all come over you
[16:47:57] <Cyrille> hmm read it but still can't get it
[16:48:09] <Tempt> timsf: You could always boulder a motion to get rid of it?
[16:48:21] <timsf> s/read it/heard the radio show/ -- not sure that made it into the books..
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[16:48:47] <timsf> I'll find a reference now... Tempt - yeah, there's genunix.org, I'll table^H^H^Hboulder the motion!
[16:49:55] <Tempt> I have the books, it's definately in there
[16:50:00] <timsf> http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Hitchhiker's_Guide_to_the_Galaxy#Chapter_32
[16:50:10] <Tempt> If I was going to an Indiana Dev Summit I'd definately want my Joo Janta 200s
[16:50:22] <timsf> 8-)
[16:50:29] <LeftWing> Or a drop of That Auld Janx Spirit.
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[16:50:37] <timsf> That might happen too!
[16:51:21] *** stevel has left #opensolaris
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[16:52:25] <Sup3rkiddo> anyone know if theres work going on to make no-brand chinese webcams support for ON, because if it there isnt, i would like to pitch in...
[16:52:50] <Tempt> Yeah, and can I get support on ON for my USB cup warmers controllable lights? That'd be handy
[16:53:30] <mp3ters>  can't seem to find anything...in regards to preventing volfs from mounting slice 8 (boot) partition when I connect the usb seagate drive
[16:53:38] <Sup3rkiddo> Tempt, :P, i have loads of these cams on my desk...
[16:54:07] <stevel> sup3rkiddo: if the no-brand chinese webcams are usbvc compliant, then they should just work
[16:54:20] <mp3ters> any ideas how to prevent s8 from being mounted?
[16:55:36] <Tempt> goodnight all
[16:55:51] <Sup3rkiddo> stevel, oh..i will take a look, i see a lot of chance to work there since not many cams are supported yet..i was thinking on the lines of spca5xx for linux, a project that supports prolly 100 different cams..thanks for the hint
[16:57:06] <stevel> agreed. spca5xx would be nice... then i could make use of the two generic webcams i've got lying around :)
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[16:58:02] <Sup3rkiddo> stevel, i got loads man...but first i got to catch hold of my friend to download the isos for me
[16:58:04] <Sup3rkiddo> :P
[16:58:06] <Sup3rkiddo> brb
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[17:15:34] <dmesg> hi dudes
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[17:16:12] <razrX> lol, dmesg
[17:17:00] <dmesg> :P
[17:17:24] <dmesg> what do solaris guys use for a mail server? postfix?
[17:17:32] <dmesg> or sun cobalt? :P
[17:18:06] <Doomshammer> Postfix is the choice - regardless of what OS
[17:18:40] <dmesg> solaris 10
[17:18:44] <Doomshammer> s/the/the weapon/
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[17:19:15] <Doomshammer> *narf*... "Postfix is the weapon of choice" ...that is ;-)
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[17:19:32] * LeftWing hugs Sun Messaging Server.
[17:20:36] <dmesg> what is that sin messaging server? a cobalt machine?
[17:21:08] <dmesg> sun
[17:21:19] <LeftWing> No. =P
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[17:21:22] <Cyrille> it's just an app, not an appliance
[17:21:27] <myrkr> hi all
[17:21:30] * LeftWing grumbles about frigging appliances.
[17:21:31] <dmesg> ahh ok
[17:21:38] <myrkr> can I get a list of all installed patches?
[17:21:47] <kjetilho> showrev -p
[17:22:59] <Cyrille> showrev -a
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[17:23:08] <dmesg> i lick on buy now and i get an error :S
[17:23:28] <PerterB> Hmm, 10u3/x86 seems to have gone titsup on me... It started with processes accessing a large file on zfs hanging, moved on to "ls" hanging, then zpool scrub at which point it got noticeable worse with ps hanging and now I can't log in
[17:23:45] <PerterB> no errors via dmesg or syslog during all that
[17:23:48] <bda> PerterB: It's a sign from the gods.
[17:23:58] <PerterB> not  avery encouraging sign :P
[17:24:03] <Doomshammer> PerterB: zpool status -x
[17:24:31] <PerterB> if I could log in or unwedge one of these commands then maybe....
[17:24:32] <Doomshammer> how large is the file? bigger than 10GiB?
[17:24:36] <PerterB> 23G
[17:24:44] <Doomshammer> nice :D
[17:25:02] <PerterB> with some other admin doing a naive "cat foo | gunzip > bar" pipeline
[17:25:03] <Doomshammer> i am working with 20GiB files on zfs with 10u3 w/o issues
[17:25:04] <myrkr> can I query to see if a certain patch is installed?
[17:25:20] <PerterB> myrkr: showrev -p | grep
[17:25:21] <Cyrille> showrev -a | grep
[17:25:24] <Cyrille> :-)
[17:25:27] <Doomshammer> and you didn't kill him for the usless use of cat? :D
[17:25:41] <PerterB> not so far, mainly on account of him being da boss
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[17:26:19] <PerterB> and seeing as I was the one who pushed for zfs on solare/x86 for this application, I am keeping a low profile until I know what the problem is :)
[17:26:19] <Doomshammer> is the login simply hanging or are you gettin' errors and get back to the login prompt?
[17:26:24] <PerterB> hanging
[17:26:25] <kjetilho> Doomshammer: it's not necessarily a useless use of cat ...
[17:26:54] <PerterB> kjetilho: it was in this case
[17:27:03] <kjetilho> Doomshammer: although it will fail if bar becomes bigger than 2 GiB, so...
[17:27:10] <Doomshammer> kjetilho: well, as long as file ends with .gz it is
[17:27:21] <kjetilho> (if the shell was compiled without largefile support)
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[17:27:48] <Doomshammer> on modern systems... which shell isn't compiled with largefile support?
[17:28:29] <Doomshammer> even on my 5.7 box, i re-compiled shells and perl with largefile support
[17:28:35] <rasputnik> ls
[17:28:49] <Doomshammer> ls is not a shell
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[17:29:42] <kjetilho> Doomshammer: "re-compiled" is the operative word here :)
[17:29:49] <PerterB> ooh, I'm in... "all pools are healthy" ... hmm
[17:30:20] <PerterB> and the scrub I requested still hasn't kicked off
[17:30:58] <Doomshammer> maybe you should nice or kill the process that's fucking the system
[17:31:42] <Cyrille> which might require his logging in in the first place.
[17:31:59] <Doomshammer> [17:29:46] <PerterB> ooh, I'm in...
[17:32:23] <Cyrille> ah sorry
[17:32:48] <PerterB> oh, it's not a resource issue... the hung cat is sitting doing nothing, there's no IO
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[17:33:44] <Doomshammer> kill 'da cat :D
[17:33:47] <PerterB> and is unkillable... result
[17:33:52] * PerterB sighs
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[17:34:11] <leal> hello..
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[17:34:21] <leal> are you able to use pca 5.7?
[17:34:23] <Doomshammer> it's maybe still hanging as the process that it pipes to is hanging
[17:34:35] <PerterB> I can reboot this box, but I'd rather get to the bottom of this
[17:34:43] <Doomshammer> you should try to identify the bunzip and kill that one, that should resolve the hanging cat as well
[17:34:55] <Doomshammer> gunzip that is
[17:35:00] <dmesg> is it easy to install sun messaging server?
[17:35:14] <Sup3rkiddo> and the cat has 9 lives
[17:35:25] <Sup3rkiddo> so kill -9 should do it
[17:35:36] <Doomshammer> *hrhr*
[17:36:15] <Cyrille> bada-ching
[17:36:23] <Sup3rkiddo>  aw..come on laugh guys..thats a good one
[17:36:28] <dmesg> or kill them -a better
[17:36:58] <PerterB> nah, the gunzips were just sleeping reading stdin and gone now (I simplified, there were two instances of this cat | gzip and I created a third unkillable cat with "truss cat foo > /dev/null")
[17:37:37] <PerterB> plus one still hung "zpool scrub" :)
[17:37:38] <Doomshammer> Sup3rkiddo: ATOM 1: "Wait, don't move! I think I lost an electron." - ATOM 2: "Are you sure?" - ATOM 1: "Yes, I'm positive!"
[17:37:49] <Sup3rkiddo> lol
[17:37:56] * PerterB laughs
[17:38:09] <Sup3rkiddo> but still mine was better :S
[17:38:15] <gobbler> im using dtrace to trace function calls, but the dtrace buffers overflow - is there a flag to let dtrace block the traced app? (prolly not the concept of dtrace, but....)
[17:38:16] <Doomshammer> :-P
[17:38:26] <elektronkind> that atom should keep an ion its electrons
[17:38:36] <Sup3rkiddo> rofl
[17:38:37] <Doomshammer> elektronkind: nice one :D
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[17:39:27] <movement> gobbler: you can increase the buffer size and the clean rates, which should help. check the manual.
[17:40:09] <gobbler> movement: i tried the buffer size already, still too much data... clean the rates means the probe sampling?
[17:40:25] <edp> gobbler, you might try to limit the number of probes
[17:41:21] <edp> e.g. just the :entry probes for the pid
[17:41:56] <tomww> dtrace is designed in a way not to take down the machine by working on all fired probes... so missing a probe is allowed IIRC ...
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[17:42:33] <leal> anyone using pca??
[17:43:06] <gobbler> edp: cant do that, i wana trace all function calls inside the app - or is there another tool to do that?
[17:43:36] <gobbler> tomww: well id would be ok if dtrace slows the target app by blocking on a probe hit, its userspace only
[17:44:18] <tomww> try the dtrace mailinglist, maybe the inventors have the right idea of how to do that...
[17:44:46] <gobbler> tomww: ok, thanks for the hint!
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[17:44:55] <edp> gobbler, i read your message wrong.. thought it was a different problem you were having
[17:44:58] <gobbler> afaik truss blocks the target?
[17:45:27] <tomww> dtrace-discuss at opensolaris dot org
[17:45:28] <gobbler> edp: basically what i wana do is create a callgraph for an application at runtime
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[17:46:12] <kjetilho> I think you need to refine your Dtrace script
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[17:46:37] <edp> gobbler, using predicates you can limit the tracing to only trigger the full callgraph when certain events happen
[17:46:42] <gobbler> kjetilho: yea :) but i miss basic functionality to do that
[17:46:53] <tomww> gobbler: hmm. try the aggregation the other way around or just let dtrace do more aggregation internally...only ideas
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[17:47:43] <zer0z0ne> hey sommerfeld
[17:47:53] <gobbler> edp: hmm, i need a perl scrip to do that anyway... i wana fire a probe on :entry & :return and pass the data to perl which creates call stats
[17:49:00] <gobbler> tomww: i tried that already (spent quite some time with reading documentation and proof of concepts but i miss certain features which don't scope with the dtrace design
[17:49:24] <edp> gobbler, what kind of stats are you looking for?
[17:50:02] <gobbler> edp: i.e. time spent in the function before calling the next one - basically a profiling the app
[17:50:03] <sommerfeld> dtrace has very efficient statistical aggregation mechanisms; you'll have lower probe overhead using them as opposed to exporting events in bulk
[17:51:04] <edp> gobbler, you should be able to accomplish those calculations using only dtrace
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[17:51:36] <bor1> hello
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[17:53:08] <bor1> anyone can advice how to get sun certificate to be able to install signed patches ?
[17:53:09] <gobbler> edp: i couldnt because on the next function entry i have to save runtime in the previous function - works in design but dtrace datastructures are not powerful enough to do that
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[17:53:21] <gobbler> edp: thats why i prefere a perl helper script
[17:53:30] <bor1> i've followed info about keytool exporting from java jre keystore
[17:53:40] <bor1> and imported, but it does not seem to be good certificate
[17:53:57] <gobbler> edp: it's a bit complicated :( but a blocking dtrace would solve my problems
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[17:55:53] <PerterB> hmm, I wonder if can I convert the wchan of these hung processes back to anything useful with mdb -k
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[17:57:32] <PerterB> that's the sort of thing sommerfeld would surely know ;)
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[18:11:44] <kaiwai> after seeing slashdot, it reenforces why I think advertising on there is a waste of money
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[18:12:51] <sommerfeld> PerterB: not offhand, actually.  (I could answer that question for other systems but it's not something i've needed to dig into for solaris)
[18:13:31] <kaiwai> hope they fix the freetype bug
[18:13:39] <sommerfeld> traditionally wchan is a kernel virtual address of the data structure being used for synchronization.
[18:14:01] <PerterB> yeah, I know
[18:14:28] <PerterB> and these are processes sleeping in an unkillable state waiting on some zfs or vfs event I assume
[18:16:34] <sommerfeld> generally i skip looking at wchan and go directly to mdb's ::findstack
[18:16:53] <PerterB> that sounds far more sensible
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[18:23:09] <Berny> why the heck does my gnome-session via ssgd die every few days?
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[18:27:36] <PerterB> hmm, the cats all seem to be stuck in the loop at http://cvs.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/uts/common/fs/zfs/dmu.c#240
[18:28:05] <g4lt-sb100> Berny, because gnome is unstable
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[18:29:43] <Berny> na gnome runs fine locally... just dies inside ssgd for whatever reason :-\
[18:30:04] <PerterB> is it possible to force a crash dump on x86 without console access?
[18:30:30] <Berny> i'd use cde in ssgd but that means some java based won't work
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[18:30:39] <Berny> PerterB: poke it with mdb?
[18:32:54] <sommerfeld> PerterB: "reboot -d" or the uadmin equivalent is one way.
[18:32:55] <PerterB> poke it how?
[18:33:00] <PerterB> ah right, ta
[18:33:19] <sommerfeld> PerterB: or mdb -kw and then sabotage some critical kernel data structure with a NULL pointer.
[18:33:45] <sommerfeld> (setting rootvp to NULL seems to be a favorite)
[18:34:29] <PerterB> reboot -d seems less harsh
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[18:35:12] <sommerfeld> harsh is in some sense good here.  what you want is something that is most likely to work without destroying the crime scene.
[18:35:37] <PerterB> ah, true
[18:41:36] <PerterB> it still seems to be up and running with rootvp set to null :)
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[18:44:32] <PerterB> exit/W 0 kills it though ;)
[18:47:23] <PerterB> cheers for the advice, sommerfeld
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[18:52:04] <Sup3rkiddo> why are the dates all wrong in the source browser..i distinctly remember seeing August 22 07 some hours ago...its Jul 03 now...or am i on crack
[18:52:34] <holcomb> backout?
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[18:53:49] <Sup3rkiddo> well $MYLASTMESSAGE > /dev/null
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[18:59:24] <bor1> pls. where can i find certificate/s for pkgadm to be able to install signed patches for solaris 10
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[19:34:38] <trygvis> what magic do I have to perform to get the alom on a v240 available over ssh?
[19:34:51] <trygvis> I've done setsc netsc_dhcp true, and reset the SC
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[19:40:55] <ofu> trygvis: i think, ssh is alom 1.6 or newer
[19:41:47] <ofu> Section 4. New Features: In 1.6: Secure Shell support
[19:43:01] <ofu> your sc got an IP and pings? But i think, version 1.6 is your friend...
[19:44:13] <madhatter> re
[19:44:30] <trygvis> hm, perhaps. but it should support telnet anyway
[19:44:42] <trygvis> the box has alom v1.3
[19:45:18] <trygvis> I've tried to both give it an IP and use dhcp, neither seem to work
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[19:46:56] <ofu> trygvis: updating the alom of the sc can be done online, no need to shutdown the host
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[19:47:32] <ofu> how can you turn on/off autoneg for this ethernet-port?
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[19:50:00] <zer0z0ne> hey madhatter
[19:50:15] <madhatter> zer0z0ne: hey zer0
[19:50:34] <zer0z0ne> whats up?
[19:50:53] <madhatter> Anybody got an idea how to remove dhcp from my ath0 device and put a fixed address onto it?
[19:51:20] <madhatter> I got the device down and an ip attached, but after reboot it uses dhcp again
[19:51:24] <zer0z0ne> mick_work: wasnt qemu used to make sse2 emulation?
[19:51:31] <leal> somebody knows how can i use dtrace to know what functions are handling some string?
[19:51:37] <zer0z0ne> i think qemu code was used to make the emulation in OSx86 kernels
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[19:52:20] <zer0z0ne> anyone ever heard of OSx86?
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[19:53:30] <dwc-> sure
[19:53:51] <zer0z0ne> yeah, its a pretty cool project
[19:53:52] <sommerfeld> madhatter: The existence of /etc/dhcp.ath0 (empty file) triggers use of dhcp on ath0
[19:54:19] <sommerfeld> see the /lib/svc/method/net-physical script
[19:54:23] <dwc-> empty or non-empty
[19:54:26] <trygvis> hm, if I pulled out the plugs on the v240 and restarted it got an address from dhcp
[19:55:05] <madhatter> sommerfeld: oic, thanks. I thought /etc/hostname.ath0 containing the ip i like would take care
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[19:55:42] <sommerfeld> /etc/dhcp.${ifname} preempts an assignment in /etc/hostname.${ifname}
[19:56:05] <madhatter> Okay then, I will give it a try
[20:00:01] <sommerfeld> Rumor has it that s10u4 (aka "Solaris 10 8/07") has been permitted to escape.
[20:00:18] <zer0z0ne> :o
[20:00:27] <alanc> I've already seen the complaints about the download centers being overloaded by people downloading u4
[20:02:30] <flyingparchment> no release notes available yet?
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[20:02:55] <ofu> flyingparchment: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/817-0547/6mgbdbsmb?l=en&a=view
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[20:03:29] <madhatter> sommerfeld: Hm, still uses dhcp
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[20:04:11] <sommerfeld> oh.  wait.  nwam.
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[20:04:17] <madhatter> sommerfeld: Do I have to change the ip manually once or something?
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[20:04:30] <sommerfeld> svcs -a | grep network/physical
[20:04:55] <sommerfeld> is network/physical:nwam enabled or is network/physical:default enabled?
[20:05:03] <alanc> ah, they've fixed the release notes - earlier they were hidden under Solaris 10 1/06
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[20:05:20] <madhatter> sommerfeld: nwam is enabled
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[20:05:43] <sommerfeld> okay, that forces use of dhcp
[20:05:44] <madhatter> sommerfeld: online
[20:05:55] <madhatter> Uh, it does?
[20:06:05] <sommerfeld> svcadm disable network/physical:nwam; svcadm enable network/physical:default
[20:06:12] <sommerfeld> "network automagic"
[20:06:56] <madhatter> sommerfeld: And then? I thought automatically connect to wifi needs nwam?
[20:08:33] <madhatter> sommerfeld: I read something about nwamcfg online, but I can't find something like that here
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[20:22:19] <doc_nl> yeah downloadcenter's where terribele, started at 680KB/s (max of my line) but dropped to 20KB/s at the worst point...
[20:22:28] <zer0z0ne> ouch, thats slow
[20:22:30] <doc_nl> oh well it's here now :)
[20:22:40] <zer0z0ne> probably really washed out because of many downloads
[20:22:51] <zer0z0ne> that usually happens with Apple's ADC when a new Leopard comes out
[20:23:03] <zer0z0ne> my speeds go from about 1mb/s to like 50kb/s
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[20:23:31] <zer0z0ne> but apple has some of the worst protections on its OS
[20:23:32] <doc_nl> good that they fixed documentation now
[20:23:38] <theRealballchalk> hello
[20:23:48] <madhatter> sommerfeld: Okay, found the config in /etc/nwam/llp. After adding a default route it seems to work now
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[20:24:22] <sommerfeld> definitely need to put bittorrent into the downloader widget.
[20:24:27] <zer0z0ne> simple nopping and adding a function allows it to be run on PCs
[20:24:32] <bda> sommerfeld: Yes, please.
[20:24:44] <zer0z0ne> and autofsb is also simple
[20:24:49] <bda> sommerfeld: Or just set upa  regular tracker. :)
[20:24:49] <zer0z0ne> and also AMD
[20:24:57] <zer0z0ne> but i am stuck on cpuid_set_info..
[20:25:07] <stevel> we can't torrent SXCE
[20:25:10] <alanc> or S10
[20:25:34] <sommerfeld> or, well, "something very much like bittorrent, but different"
[20:25:37] <stevel> or anything that has binaries that aren't freely redistributable
[20:25:41] <alanc> unless you can convince lawyers that bittorrent isn't allowing redistribution by others
[20:25:46] <bda> stevel: With your damn reality.
[20:26:25] <flyingparchment> good to see docs.sun.com retained its usual speed
[20:26:46] <zer0z0ne> madhatter: ive heard of you from somewhere, i just cant think of where..
[20:27:17] <nachox> guys sun java directory server is free with some limitations right?
[20:28:33] <theRealballchalk> how do you rename a directory without moving it into the target name directory?
[20:29:22] <bor1> mv oldname newname
[20:30:04] <theRealballchalk> bor1: wait what am i asking?  it was brainfart. thanks
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[20:33:42] <flyingparchment> "coherent console" = framebuffer console?  is that an x86 too?
[20:34:30] <alanc> think it's SPARC only - uses the framebuffer driver in the kernel instead of the OBP to draw the text console - much faster
[20:34:44] <alanc> but most x86 graphics cards have no kernel framebuffer driver now
[20:34:55] <theRealballchalk> if i exported term=vt100 and it still echoed vt102...why?
[20:35:10] <bor1> TERM
[20:35:11] <alanc> and wouldn't be using slow OBP routines anyway
[20:35:19] <theRealballchalk> bor1 yes i did
[20:35:29] <bor1> using what shell ?
[20:35:50] <bor1> (i prefer bash ;)
[20:36:09] <mp3ters> bash
[20:36:34] <theRealballchalk> bash
[20:36:37] <theRealballchalk> of course bash
[20:36:58] <bor1> export TERM=vt100; echo $SHELL
[20:37:00] <NsOmNiAc> I'll stick with zsh
[20:37:35] <bor1> echo $TERM, of course
[20:37:44] <bor1> i was thinking about shell topic
[20:37:47] <theRealballchalk> bor1: yea i did a 'term=vt100' then 'export term' then 'echo $TERM' still vt102
[20:38:00] <flyingparchment> theRealballchalk: TERM=vt100, not term=.  it's case sensitive
[20:38:00] <bor1> both TERM were uppercase ?
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[20:38:10] <theRealballchalk> ohhh
[20:38:24] <theRealballchalk> no when i was setting it it was all lower
[20:38:45] <theRealballchalk> lemme try
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[20:40:48] <bor1> even symmetries in space are not valid for objects in their mirror opposits
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[21:02:44] <Megaf> aloha
[21:02:53] <madhatter> Is there any trick why I have to add a route manually when using a static ip and setting up /etc/defaultrouter is not enough?
[21:03:18] <richlowe> route -p
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[21:04:07] <bor1> richlowe: where this info is kept ?
[21:04:44] <madhatter> richlowe: What about defaultrouter? What is that file good for then?
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[21:05:41] <Berny> is there a reason why i can get a ip via dhcp just fine if i dont use wifi encryption or wep but not with wpa encryption? for the latter i have to manually set the ip/route and it works fine after that... this is nwam on nv69...
[21:06:14] <bor1> found it
[21:06:46] <bor1>  /etc/inet/static_routes keeps info about permanent routes
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[21:07:52] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stevel
[21:07:59] <Berny> hi stevel
[21:08:13] <stevel> heya
[21:08:21] *** stevel changes topic to "Latest SXCE 71 | Latest ON 72 | Starter kits:  http://get.opensolaris.org | Clipboard:"
[21:08:24] <stevel> bah
[21:08:30] *** stevel changes topic to "Latest SXCE 71 | Latest ON 72 | Starter kits:  http://get.opensolaris.org | Clipboard: http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/"
[21:08:39] <stevel> sxce 71 is available for download
[21:08:51] <Berny> hoho!
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[21:09:03] <Berny> what about the promised respin of b70?
[21:09:06] <quasi> I didn't see any announce yet
[21:09:40] <quasi> (of 71)
[21:09:55] <Berny> that will follow shortly...
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[21:10:46] <quasi> oh well, I downloaded U4 ~ 12 hrs before getting the announce - I suppose it helps spread traffic ;)
[21:10:57] *** hile_ has joined #opensolaris
[21:11:22] * Berny is still on the b side of u4
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[21:11:32] <Berny> down to 40kB/s :-(
[21:11:36] <Berny> re steve
[21:12:30] <quasi> Berny: I had ~25 times better than that this morning ;)
[21:13:11] <Berny> i started off at 1.5MB/s
[21:13:11] <bor1> Berny: i've started downloading 2 hours ago and it's already finished
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[21:13:53] <quasi> Berny: ah, good point - I was downloading 2 at a time - so more like 2M
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[21:19:27] <monkey_squad> haha the world is upside down, b71 before b70b, and everyone on the mailing list is talking about b72
[21:19:34] <monkey_squad> SO MUCH BEES
[21:19:45] <monkey_squad> I CANT CHOOSE
[21:19:53] <wesolows> 70a and 70b should be thought of as Sun-private, non-OpenSolaris builds
[21:20:04] <wesolows> a branch on Sun's SXDE line
[21:20:15] <wesolows> for OpenSolaris, it's 70 -> 71 -> 72
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[21:21:34] <monkey_squad> does anyone know if b71 is a superset of sorts of b70b, or if b70b has extra stuff integrated that wont make it in until b72?
[21:21:42] <monkey_squad> its POSSIBLE so I must ask
[21:22:03] <wesolows> I had thought it all ended up in 71, but since it was a private branch there's no way to be sure
[21:22:15] <richlowe> "It shouldn't happen that way, but it might."
[21:22:34] <monkey_squad> who are you quoting :o
[21:22:43] <richlowe> myself, trying to be polite ;)
[21:22:43] <wesolows> Basically you should not concern yourself with 70a or 70b unless you use Solaris Express, in which case you should just note whatever build number it spits out when filing bugs.
[21:22:56] <richlowe> giving past polite answers is better than incendiary current answers. :)
[21:23:11] <sommerfeld> it's possible that some fixes missed 71 and landed into 70b and 72
[21:23:30] <monkey_squad> rock hard truth is easier to understand, thanks sommerfeld :( :)
[21:23:33] <richlowe> wesolows: in theory, the build-synched snapshots that go up on opensolaris.org match the fully respun build.
[21:23:36] <cmihai> Looks like Sun is taking branching to the next level
[21:23:45] <richlowe> wesolows: so when these things are respun into the snapshot (properly), they are our business.
[21:23:51] <bda> cmihai: They must have switched to git.
[21:24:01] <wesolows> You should not be taking snapshots of XX[abc...]
[21:24:06] <cmihai> Nah, Mercurial rocks for this kind of stuff ;-)
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[21:24:16] <cmihai> You know, de-centralized weird ass development :D
[21:24:17] <wesolows> And Sun should put those somewhere private
[21:24:45] <monkey_squad> linus said that mercurial is just like git, only slightly insuperior... so that is a shining endorsement of mercurial :p
[21:24:52] <wesolows> In fact, we should actually ask the ON C-team to consider taking an actual branch for this (bringing over into a temporary SXDE gate)
[21:25:07] <richlowe> Yes, I have.
[21:25:11] <richlowe> except not the C-Team, because I have no means to.
[21:25:25] <cmihai> Well, true, Mercurial is very much like Git.
[21:25:29] <richlowe> I asked that after their ineptitude locked the onnv_64 snapshot.
[21:25:33] <cmihai> They both came out at the same time, and for the same purpose.
[21:25:41] <richlowe> but since I phrased it like that, I should probably ask again, nicely :\
[21:25:48] <cmihai> Good things came out of that whole version tracking bullshit in Linux
[21:26:08] <WickedWicky> howedy
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[21:26:30] <doc_nl> but yuo guys @ sun really want to pester the download servers by releasing u4 and b71 on the same day ;)
[21:26:37] <wesolows> actually bitkeeper was nice; it was just the company behind it that sucked
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[21:27:11] <monkey_squad> if sun cant handle the demand from one and a half minor releases they have big problems to worry about :o
[21:27:49] <wesolows> The crazy thing is that there's such heavy demand for u4, given that the people who should be using updates are by and large ridiculously conservative and won't even think about deploying it for another 6 months at least (in truth, most of the target customers for u4 are still using S8).
[21:28:03] <monkey_squad> an internet infrastructure company best not show wavering of their own internet infrastructure :o
[21:28:14] <wesolows> We're an internet infrastructure company?
[21:28:23] <wesolows> Since when? (dot in dot com notwithstanding)
[21:28:37] <monkey_squad> I dont know, what would you call sun then!
[21:28:51] <wesolows> L3 is an internet infrastructure company, so are AT&T and Sprint.
[21:28:55] <kjetilho> it's a university network company
[21:29:14] <wesolows> We make systems/solutions, not networks.  Sadly.
[21:29:20] <monkey_squad> depends on the kind of infrastructure you're talking about then :)
[21:29:37] <wesolows> The kind of infrastructure that matters in this case is the kind offered by Cisco and AT&T.
[21:33:16] <monkey_squad> so to release dates for another moment, are b70b/sxde and b72 both about 3 weeks away?
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[21:42:43] <flyingparchment> so i want to destroy and recreate a LUN on a directly-attached SCSI device.  is it sufficient to cfgadm unconfigure, destroy the lun, recreate it, devfsadm?
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[21:54:57] <flyingparchment> the manual seems to suggest that's only possible on sparc..?
[22:00:20] <CIA-26> ek110237: 6595467 libzfs consumers should be allowed to write their own history (or none at all), 6595470 zpool_stage_history() should take a single string, 6596228 zfs upgrade -a doesn't always log to all pools
[22:00:21] <CIA-26> mb158278: 6296641 Hostname field empty in Config Reader's System table in SB1500
[22:00:22] <CIA-26> jf137018: 6561389 niumx: Setting a property for a N2/NIU nxge device node does not seem to work
[22:00:32] <axisys> how do I make two namedpipe work with syslogd?
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[22:00:51] <axisys> i am getting no reader error for the second pipe
[22:00:54] <axisys> http://rafb.net/p/kIJ1FO42.html
[22:01:23] <axisys> according to this i cannot have two named pipe in one syslog.conf file http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/document.do?assetkey=1-1-4051639-1
[22:01:39] <axisys> but that article is from 1997
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[22:19:15] <mick_work> hi everyone
[22:20:38] <unborn> hey
[22:21:12] <mick_work> i saw that the SXCE upgrade failed
[22:21:39] <mick_work> so this time i brought my old Solaris 9 CDs (I bought this a while back)
[22:22:21] <mick_work> solaris 9 was stable as a rock(from what i remember)
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[22:22:38] <Auralis> it is
[22:23:13] <unborn> new to the opensolaris community, not to *nix by any means... was wondering which port to dl?
[22:23:20] <unborn> community or developers?
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[22:24:31] <hile_> hey Auralis
[22:24:34] <sommerfeld> unborn: depends on your goals.  community is bleeding edge bits.  developer's release will not be as bleeding edge and has selective fixes applied
[22:24:43] <unborn> kool
[22:24:54] <unborn> I guess I will go with community :)
[22:25:15] <unborn> thing is I am on another one of my "lets dig into" an OS moods :)
[22:25:18] <palowoda> selective fixes?
[22:25:31] <unborn> opensolaris minix3 or plan9 ? hehe screw it all 3 I got the hw :)
[22:25:49] <axisys> share -F nfs -o ro /var/logs allows to mount iton remote site.. but -o ro=remotehost does not allow mount .. any idea why?
[22:27:40] <flyingparchment> what's the best way to check for correct read/write of an entire disk?
[22:27:49] <palowoda> Which "selective fixes" are not on the SXCE that are in the DE version?
[22:28:53] <unborn> well considering I have to register for the community edition
[22:28:56] <unborn> I think I will go with dev :)
[22:29:43] <sommerfeld> palowoda: selective fixes from CE may land in the stabilization branch for DE
[22:30:41] <mick_work> unborn: SXDE has a beta installer (use SXCE) -- it has a horrible looking installer - but your chances of it working are (slightly) higher
[22:30:58] <mick_work> unborn: same here, new to opensolaris myself
[22:31:15] <alanc> the same installer is included in both SXCE & SXDE downloads, it's just a choice in the grub menu when you boot to which you use
[22:31:18] <mick_work> unborn: what do you want to use it for?
[22:31:44] <unborn> testing
[22:31:47] <unborn> heh whatever :)
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[22:31:57] <unborn> I work as a unix admin for a web hosting company
[22:32:05] <unborn> and I have a few open slots in a cage I have
[22:32:30] <unborn> wanna throw an open solaris plan9 or minix3 box up
[22:32:42] <mick_work> from my experience - if you want it for mission critical stuff - buy solaris 10
[22:32:43] <unborn> wanna compare performance on a lower end machine
[22:32:53] <unborn> just gonna run typical mysqld and apache
[22:32:58] <mick_work> unborn: they are all in the same category for me ;)
[22:33:22] <mick_work> all "oh cool - now i can say i installed it once" type of OSes
[22:33:44] <mick_work> though people here have had success w/ opensolaris
[22:33:51] <mick_work> i haven't
[22:33:58] <flyingparchment> how strange, my scsi controller changed from c1 to c2 for no apparent reason
[22:34:28] <unborn> hmmmm
[22:35:46] <axisys> wow! nfs share with -o ro=host does not allow host to mount.. but -o ro=FQDN does.. very interesting!!
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[22:44:01] <rikochet> x_x
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[22:46:22] <mick_work> what does "can't open no VTOC" mean?
[22:46:29] <Teknix> has anyone seen this zfs related panic before?  http://pastebin.ca/681458
[22:47:07] <mick_work> nm, googled it
[22:51:54] <sommerfeld> Teknix: looks plausibly like 6393634 (or at least another bug reporting that panic was closed as a dup of 6393634)
[22:52:19] <doc_nl> alanc: sxce b70 has the new installer iirc, and sxde still the old one (until sxde b70b gets released)
[22:52:45] <Teknix> sommerfeld: i don't see that bug at bugs.opensolaris.org
[22:53:05] <Teknix> oh wait, nevermind
[22:53:09] <alanc> oh, since I'd been doing test installs for SXDE of the b70 bits, I was thinking of that as SXDE, forgetting it's not yet the current one
[22:55:33] <doc_nl> ;)
[22:56:08] <doc_nl> anybody had the "ERROR: Could not create Fdisk partition table" error?
[22:56:18] <mick_work> anyone get to an install screen and have it just beep when you press F2?
[22:56:45] <mick_work> i can select w/ enter/space -- but i can't do anything more
[22:57:17] <hspaans> mick_work: try <esc> <2>
[22:57:29] <sommerfeld> Teknix: the panic apparently only happens when certain metadata reads fail unrecoverably (2+ failures with raidz1, 3+ failures with raidz2, all mirrors fail).  there's work under way to make it not panic.
[22:57:31] <mick_work> hspaans: will do
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[22:58:29] <mick_work> it just renamed the options on the bottom to ESC-2_Continue etc
[22:58:31] <mick_work> thats it
[22:59:02] <Teknix> sommerfeld: i had a raidz1 pool marked as degraded that I cleared because the errors were suspicious.. I detached the two hot spares to make them available again.  I created a new pool on a different array and was a recursive zfs send/recv to move data between them
[22:59:20] <Teknix> was using
[22:59:52] <Teknix> i'm guessing the pool with the data on it is the culprit
[23:00:16] <CIA-26> ab196087: 6597841 gelf_getdyn() reads one too many dynamic entries
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[23:02:04] <Teknix> sommerfeld: any way to recover from this?
[23:02:35] <sommerfeld> that's out of my depth.  send a note to zfs-discuss.
[23:02:52] <Teknix> ok, thanks
[23:03:59] <flyingparchment> how many dimms can an X4100 (not M2) take?
[23:04:50] <Berny> did you check system handbook?
[23:06:32] <sommerfeld> looks like 8 DIMMs in all models of X4100 I can find.
[23:06:43] <Berny> dimm slots per board 8
[23:06:54] <Berny> 4 dimm slots per cpu
[23:07:34] <Berny> up to 2gb dimms of ddr1/400 ecc type
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[23:13:04] <flyingparchment> thanks
[23:13:55] <Berny> all from the system handbook ;-)
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[23:28:55] <richlowe> gdamore: smooooooth
[23:29:13] * gdamore hides under rock.
[23:29:36] <gdamore> i was asked to use the putback command directly... but I screwed up and used "-c" where I meant "-m"
[23:29:39] <Berny> can i get a mango smoothie?
[23:30:49] <wesolows> yeah
[23:30:56] <wesolows> you're about the 12313412th person to fuck this up
[23:31:03] * timsf still has nightmares about the only putback he ever did
[23:31:08] <wesolows> we'll all razz you for a few minutes and then life goes on
[23:31:30] <sommerfeld> It will be harder to make this mistake with hg.  But not impossible.
[23:31:35] <richlowe> and this is why the sponsor process is awesome.
[23:31:39] <richlowe> I'm protected from fucking up :)
[23:31:50] <sommerfeld> But not protected from your sponsor fucking up
[23:31:51] <timsf>  (yeah, just deal with the unexpected visions and dark strangers visting your house in the wee small hours gdamore ;-)
[23:31:54] <Berny> you have someone fuck it up for you? :-)
[23:32:01] <wesolows> nor are you protected from the worse problem of putting back broken code
[23:33:07] <richlowe> sommerfeld: it should cease being possible via a typo.
[23:33:13] <richlowe> unless you're exceptionally careless about it.
[23:34:01] <Berny> just for my understanding - if i would fix a bug a would need sponsor who puts my code back into the tree?
[23:34:08] <flyingparchment> Berny: yes
[23:34:10] <wesolows> Berny: Right now, yes.
[23:34:15] <flyingparchment> no-one outside sun can putback yet
[23:34:17] <wesolows> Berny: Conceptually, no.
[23:34:41] <Berny> well having someone from inside do the dirty work seems sensible to me
[23:34:46] <richlowe> heathen.
[23:34:56] <wesolows> Berny: It seems very sensible in a "Sun controls everything" world, yes.
[23:34:58] <flyingparchment> it's silly, the effort compared to the value of the fixes contributed is insane
[23:34:59] * Berny wouldn't want the whole world to be able to mash up the source tree 8-)
[23:35:37] <wesolows> Berny: The key is that anyone with a Sun badge can mash up the tree right now.  That's about 40k people, of which at most 1000-1500 are actually qualified to do anything at all to it.
[23:35:38] <Berny> well "inside sun" might include community members with enough experience in all that stuff someday?
[23:35:52] <richlowe> No.
[23:35:53] <alanc> no sane open source project allows the whole world commit access - just people who've shown they get it right more often than not
[23:35:58] <flyingparchment> Berny: insine opensolaris, not inside sun
[23:35:59] <richlowe> "inside Sun" will always be those employed by Sun
[23:36:05] <wesolows> Berny: Which means we already have that problem.  The solution, as it is today, is the RTI process, which ensures proper review of changes has taken place and processes have been followed.
[23:36:07] <richlowe> if you're suggesting that Sun hire everyone they want to putback, that would never work.
[23:36:09] <flyingparchment> Berny: the goal is to stop sun controlling the source tree
[23:36:12] <richlowe> for a start, several of them would almost certainly never accept.
[23:36:23] <wesolows> Berny: The correct course of action is to move that process into the open so that anyone can use it.
[23:36:46] <timsf>  (as nice as it would be (Sun hiring all the smart people), but I'm biased - go SUNW, erm, whatever..)
[23:37:01] <Berny> well yeah as long as a limited number of people has access to the tree it's fine with me...
[23:37:14] * Berny wouldn't want to change anything in there
[23:37:25] <wesolows> So what we need to do here is, unlike most open source communities which vet the *person*, vet *the putback*.
[23:37:28] <Berny> least not with some guys having an eye on it beforehand
[23:37:39] <richlowe> as Keith said.
[23:37:45] <richlowe> People, not code.
[23:37:51] <richlowe> though a combination of the two is perhaps safest.
[23:38:11] <richlowe> damnit, code not people, too
[23:38:25] <Berny> .oO(i'll go an find a typo in a comment and fix that for a start)
[23:38:34] <Berny> see!
[23:38:50] <wesolows> The reality is that most advocates take a good look at who did the change and who reviewed it, and if they have doubts they may hold it until someone they trust with the right expertise has reviewed it.
[23:38:56] * Berny is completely fuck for today
[23:39:33] <Berny> i'll never edit a translation again
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[23:54:17] <ecc_> tomww: i'm such a dumbass my wifi card is a 4936 agn not a 3945
[23:57:22] <flyingparchment> do i have to do something special for solaris to see luns > 0?
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