[00:00:24] <Triskelios> I bet the service packs aren't up there anymore, anyway
[00:00:25] <kjetilho> you don't say...
[00:00:35] <Ljuvefreya> they are
[00:00:42] <kjetilho> you have to download Firefox first to upgrade IE :-)
[00:00:44] <Ljuvefreya> but its impossible to use IE 2 to download IE 6 or the SPs ;)
[00:01:17] <Ljuvefreya> huh
[00:01:35] <Ljuvefreya> I get Forbidden: You don't have permission to access / on this server.
[00:01:40] <Ljuvefreya> on www.firefox.com
[00:01:50] <vmlemon> www.mozilla.com?
[00:01:59] <Ljuvefreya> same error message
[00:02:00] <wesolows> mozilla.org
[00:02:12] <Ljuvefreya> same error
[00:02:19] <wesolows> but ie2 may be so noncompliant that you're SL
[00:02:20] <wesolows> SOL
[00:02:25] <Ljuvefreya> yeah
[00:02:26] <Ljuvefreya> seems so
[00:02:27] <wesolows> you might try ftp to ftp.mozilla.org or something
[00:02:42] <wesolows> btw NT is no longer supported by microsoft
[00:02:46] <Ljuvefreya> neat, that worked
[00:02:49] <Ljuvefreya> I totally know
[00:02:50] <wesolows> strongly recommend you not use it
[00:02:57] <kjetilho> wow, you need support for HTTP 1.1 to use mozilla.org etc.
[00:03:00] <Ljuvefreya> my employer is an MS partner :-p
[00:03:24] <wesolows> you should be using Solaris, or another OpenSolaris based distribution of your choice.
[00:03:46] <wesolows> I can pretty well guarantee that even the worst OpenSolaris based distribution will be a lot better than NT.
[00:03:50] <Ljuvefreya> LOL
[00:03:59] <kjetilho> sorry, HTTP 1.0 is good enough.  (you need to send the Host parameter)
[00:04:02] <Ljuvefreya> I am ONLY doing this because I am helping a customer :-p
[00:04:04] <Triskelios> Ljuvefreya: I don't think anyone at MS wants you to use NT 4, either
[00:04:09] <Ljuvefreya> no
[00:04:35] <wesolows> Triskelios: of course not; MS wants everyone to upgrade to each new service pack the day it's released.  They want their revenue NOW!
[00:05:04] <vmlemon> They want everyone to throw out their hardware, and buy new stuff for Vista and Server 2008, probably
[00:05:35] <Ljuvefreya> Exchange Server 2007 doesn't support upgrade scenarios for Exchange 2003
[00:05:48] <Ljuvefreya> because Exchange 2007 is 64bit only and Exchange 2003 is 32bit only
[00:06:07] <Ljuvefreya> instead Exchange 2007 uses a connector to talk to Exchange 2003
[00:06:14] * wesolows wonders when he joined #windows
[00:06:56] <Ljuvefreya> lol
[00:07:08] * Ljuvefreya is running both solaris AND opensolaris now :)
[00:07:20] <wesolows> you mean solaris and solaris express?
[00:07:25] <Ljuvefreya> I guess
[00:07:26] <wesolows> you can't run opensolaris; it's not a distribution
[00:07:38] <Ljuvefreya> Solaris Expres
[00:07:38] <Ljuvefreya> then
[00:07:40] <Ljuvefreya> sorry
[00:08:34] <Ljuvefreya> Safari on my OS X lets me get NT 4 SP6a, so its still up
[00:09:24] * wesolows remembers doing this dance around obsolescence in 2000; hard to believe anyone still uses NT 7 years on
[00:09:44] <Ljuvefreya> this enterprise I'm helping uses NT4, they are migrating to Windows Server 2003
[00:09:53] <wesolows> why aren't they migrating to Solaris?
[00:10:05] <Ljuvefreya> I'll ask him
[00:10:10] <wesolows> migration is expensive, but at least Solaris is free (unlike Microsoft's products)
[00:10:11] <kjetilho> hey, Casper says in comp.unix.solaris that Nevada has something like inotify?
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[00:10:19] <kjetilho> anyone know what this is called?
[00:10:29] <wesolows> what is inotify?
[00:10:39] <kjetilho> inode change notification
[00:10:44] <wesolows> that would be FEM
[00:10:51] <wesolows> file event monitor
[00:10:52] <kjetilho> FAM is userlevel
[00:10:55] <nachox> wesolows, linux equivalent to solaris file notification event
[00:10:57] <wesolows> part of the event port stuff
[00:11:02] <wesolows> I said FEM, not FAM
[00:11:30] <kjetilho> what's the syscall called?
[00:11:54] <kjetilho> never mind, I found a nice page.  thansk!
[00:12:03] <wesolows> 2007/027
[00:12:14] <kjetilho> eh, from 2004?
[00:12:39] <wesolows> look at port_associate and port_get probably
[00:12:48] <wesolows> but mostly read that ARC case
[00:13:15] <nachox> the event notification framework was released with solaris 10, the file event notification is just an addition to that
[00:13:37] <wesolows> event ports in S10, yes
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[00:13:47] <wesolows> FEM in the last build of Nevada (?)
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[00:14:47] <nachox> i think it went in nv_72
[00:14:55] <wesolows> that's the last build so far
[00:15:02] <wesolows> we're in 73 now
[00:15:58] <kjetilho> aha, so it's actually been in the kernel for some time, it's just not been exposed via an API before
[00:16:32] <nachox> hmm, no, it just uses the same framework
[00:17:36] <kjetilho> "Since the introduction of NFSv4 in Solaris 10, a new kernel level module was provided in Solaris, called the File Event Monitoring API (FEM). This kernel API enables other kernel modules to monitor file activity by intercepting file system modifications at the v-node level. [...] Work is currently under way to expose the kernel FEM API in to userland using the event ports mechanism in Solaris."
[00:18:02] <sommerfeld> right, the project glued together two existing frameworks (event ports and FEM)
[00:19:28] <kjetilho> excellent news, either way.  this lack has seriously impeded the deployment of GNOME and KDE
[00:19:58] <wesolows> (or GNOME and KDE have been poorly designed given available system interfaces)
[00:20:07] <steleman> huh ?
[00:20:20] <kjetilho> they're Linux desktops, they rely on Linux features :)
[00:20:31] <steleman> KDE uses FAM. FAM runs on Solaris.
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[00:20:37] <steleman> nothing to do with Linux
[00:20:46] <kjetilho> steleman: FAM doesn't scale without kernel support
[00:20:47] <wesolows> great, I'll go tell the JDS guys to pack up their stuff, and nuke KDE from the companion
[00:21:04] <kjetilho> FAM scales better than gamin, though
[00:21:05] <wesolows> this is turning out to be a great day after all
[00:21:06] <steleman> kjetilho: sez who. you ?
[00:21:13] <kjetilho> steleman: yes.
[00:21:20] <nachox> please :)
[00:21:24] <steleman> kjetilho: ok. ill make a note of that.
[00:21:50] <kjetilho> steleman: well, the case here is workstations with almost a thousand entries in the automount map
[00:22:18] <kjetilho> and vice versa servers which handle thousands of workstations
[00:22:29] <kjetilho> in other words a University setting
[00:22:44] <steleman> kjetilho: maybe you should familiarize yourself with running multiple instances of FAM and editing the fam.conf file in your favorite text editor
[00:22:53] <brendang> kjetilho: do you know scenarios when FEM will be used for "monitoring" ?
[00:22:54] <kjetilho> steleman: oh please
[00:23:16] <steleman> kjetilho: seriously.
[00:24:01] <brendang> kjetilho: "monitoring" might be a bad term. sounds too much like the role of DTrace (intercepting vnode events). event-triggering might be a better term.
[00:24:24] <kjetilho> brendang: not sure I understand what you're asking?
[00:24:38] <brendang> kjetilho: " File Event
[00:24:40] <brendang>                   Monitoring API (FEM)"
[00:24:41] <brendang> oops
[00:24:56] <brendang> anyhow, what role does it serve?
[00:25:03] <kjetilho> Nautilus and Konqueror use it to monitor $HOME/Desktop as a minimum
[00:25:18] <brendang> ahh, ok, to trigger events like getdirents
[00:35:16] <Triskelios> gamin and FAM are API-compatible, anyway
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[00:38:39] <Gman> the jds guys are writing a gamin backend for FEM
[00:38:41] <Gman> no big deal
[00:39:33] <kjetilho> Triskelios: no, gamin doesn't have the RPC support
[00:39:37] <jbk> hmm i don't think i'm explaining myself well enough on this email chain :(
[00:39:41] <kjetilho> so it's useless in an NFS environment
[00:42:06] <stevel> brendang: FEM would be nice for Mercurial...
[00:42:15] <stevel> or any other SCM
[00:43:02] <nachox> why?
[00:43:23] <stevel> so something like a 'hg status' wouldn't need to check every file for modifications
[00:43:40] <stevel> instead, when files are edited - FEM would just callback to update metadata for hg to know that files have been updated
[00:43:41] <nachox> but hg is not something that is running at all times
[00:44:02] <kjetilho> nice for Eclipse, perhaps?
[00:44:10] <stevel> no it's not, but when you want to run it - it'd be nice to have 'hg status' return immediately rather than waiting for it to scan all the files under SCM control
[00:44:24] <sommerfeld> actually, the mercurial linux patches to do the equivalent set up a daemon to monitor events
[00:44:35] <stevel> hg has an inotify extension for Linux
[00:47:23] <nachox> well, if mercurial leaves a daemon running to catch those file events it would make sense i guess
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[01:22:54] <Nishaway> on b72 is not released yet...is it?
[01:23:31] <alanc> stevel usually updates the topic of this channel when it is
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[01:42:15] <emealy> potentially stupid question: how do I find out what build of opensolaris I am building? I got the source from the (deprecated) tar download (no hg on this sys)
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[01:44:18] <alanc> uname -a ?
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[01:44:34] <alanc> oh, building, not running - never mind
[01:44:37] <jmcp> emealy: there should be an hg tag you can look at
[01:44:40] <emealy> that gives me the system I am building on not the one I am building dosn't he?
[01:44:46] <emealy> I didn't get it from hg tho
[01:45:23] <emealy> is it documented anywhere in the source?
[01:46:14] <jmcp> we don't set it / hard code it
[01:46:48] <emealy> so how would I find out what build it is that is available in the (deprecated) tar.bz2s?
[01:47:11] <jmcp> for the moment (until I can find the right hg option), match the date of the tarball with the build schedule
[01:47:25] <jmcp> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/onnv/onnv_schedule.txt
[01:47:46] <emealy> they were dated July 07 (just noticed that the page has been updated)
[01:47:47] <jmcp> at the moment we're in build 73
[01:47:52] <emealy> ta!
[01:48:05] <jmcp> 7 July is probably build 69
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[01:48:51] <emealy> sorry 30 July 2007, I have to remember I'm australian and when I write dates I confuse people
[01:48:56] <jmcp> oh, right
[01:48:56] <emealy> so that would be 70 then?
[01:49:05] <jmcp> 71
[01:49:11] <emealy> so if I'm compiling on a box that's snv_62 that could cause me issues?
[01:49:18] <jmcp> it might
[01:49:28] <jmcp> depends on whether there have been any tools-related flag days
[01:49:38] <jmcp> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/
[01:49:48] <wesolows> or cross consolidation flag days
[01:50:02] <jmcp> emealy: do you know dlg?
[01:50:07] <jmcp> wesolows: good point
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[01:50:37] <emealy> yes I do
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[01:51:08] <jmcp> emealy: and I bet you also know Cristina
[01:51:11] <jmcp> hi Tpenta
[01:51:19] <Tpenta> morning james
[01:51:47] <emealy> the issue that I'm getting at the moment is "check_fnames: error: forbidden names found in pics/*.o", where * is alot of files
[01:51:58] <emealy> could this be related? or am I totally barking up the wrong tree?
[01:52:15] <emealy> the only stuff i can find online about it is a bug report without a work around
[01:52:27] <jmcp> I'll check
[01:52:39] <wesolows> I wonder if this was Roger's gcc build breakage
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[01:53:40] <Tpenta> hey there keith
[01:53:48] <emealy> if interested the bug report I found was at http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6479503
[01:54:40] <jmcp> emealy: can you run "cc -V" please
[01:54:58] <emealy> cc: Sun C 5.8 2005/10/13
[01:55:12] <jmcp> ah, no patches listed as being installed
[01:55:34] <emealy> ah, I bet they patched my Sol10 box and not my opensolaris box
[01:55:40] <jmcp> $ /ws/onnv-tools/SUNWspro/SS11/bin/cc -V
[01:55:40] <jmcp> cc: Sun C 5.8 Patch 121016-05 2007/01/10
[01:55:47] <jmcp> that's the current SS11 patch version
[01:56:41] <emealy> ta!
[01:57:51] <tsp> how do I get the current version of sun studio that I'm running?
[01:59:48] <Triskelios> tsp: cc -V like above (the Studio version number is not really relevant to the compiler)
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[02:06:19] <tsp> ah, so that's not the patchlevel? I'm running studio12
[02:06:39] <jmcp> tsp: you cannot - yet - compile onnv with studio12
[02:07:04] * tsp goes to google studio 11 and download it before it disppears
[02:07:09] <tsp> disappears*
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[02:10:43] <jmcp> emealy: if you're compiling on snv_62, then there should be /usr/bin/hg on the system
[02:14:24] <Triskelios> tsp: you probably want the pre-patched copy on opensolaris.org
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[02:21:38] <emealy> jmcp: there is hg on *that* system, but no room on its hdds :D... its a long story...
[02:22:06] <jmcp> oh
[02:22:07] <emealy> the place where I can dl it to is Sol 10 and I don't have root to install it
[02:22:08] <jmcp> that's a pity
[02:22:15] <jmcp> :(
[02:22:55] <jmcp> I guess I'm kinda spoilt for disk space
[02:23:45] <dlg> jmcp: this is your fault
[02:23:50] <dlg> you said 10GB would be enough
[02:23:53] <emealy> dlg: his fault?
[02:24:09] <dlg> emealy: well, i had to ask someone smart how to create partitions in solaris
[02:24:10] <jmcp> dlg: 10Gb *Ethernet* should be enough :)
[02:24:13] <emealy> maybe 10GB each may have been.. but not when other people use it!
[02:24:27] <emealy> dlg: HA!
[02:24:38] <jmcp> dlg: what question did you ask for me to respond that 10Gb would be enough?
[02:25:48] <nachox> are there any e17 packages for solaris 10 x86?
[02:26:28] <dlg> jmcp: when i needed to create a new slice on disk
[02:26:43] <jmcp> ok
[02:26:52] <jmcp> I don't recall you telling me what you were going to use it for, though
[02:27:02] <jmcp> I think I thought you wanted that space for /
[02:27:12] <dlg> no, a scratch space
[02:27:14] * dlg shrug
[02:27:15] <dlg> its ok
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[02:27:27] <jmcp> dlg: yorta be using ZFS then, eh
[02:27:53] <dlg> its harder when the machine has a single disk
[02:28:08] <jmcp> aha .. all the questions I didn't ask are now coming back to bite me
[02:29:47] <dlg> its ok, this is what happens when i ask specific questions and dont give context
[02:30:42] <emealy> and those annoying users just want it done yesterday :P
[02:30:48] <jmcp> always!
[02:30:49] <jmcp> heh
[02:31:03] <emealy> (adding to dlg's reply)
[02:31:11] <emealy> (me being one of those users!)
[02:31:14] <emealy> :P
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[02:34:27] <Gman> yo stevel
[02:34:34] <stevel> hey glynn
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[03:11:29] <alanc> stevel/Gman: we're not having an OGB call tomorrow are we?
[03:11:38] <stevel> alanc: not that i'm aware of
[03:12:30] <Gman> nope
[03:13:08] <alanc> k, wasn't sure if I'd missed a mail - thanks
[03:13:17] <Gman> once again, i go 'fuck the constitution'
[03:13:17] <Gman> :)
[03:15:48] <stevel> that'd be the name of a great punk song
[03:15:56] <stevel> it probably already is
[03:16:21] <alanc> or Michael Moore's next documentary about the bush administration
[03:16:49] <stevel> nah - too obvious :)
[03:16:58] <sommerfeld> I think the keyword is "shrink to fit"
[03:18:40] <jbk> evening
[03:21:18] <stevel> hey jbk
[03:21:22] <stevel> how goes disasm land?
[03:22:24] <jbk> fine.. hopefully i'll be able to make the necessary tweaks to the ON source tree so it builds in ON (right now I just pulled the libdisasm* files that it links with + my own make file so I didn't need to lug around the entire tree to build)
[03:22:54] <jbk> otherwise I think it's just a matter of possibly filing a few bugs to document some of the current issues i've found with the closed bin, then start the whole process of integration
[03:23:04] <stevel> awesome
[03:25:32] <jbk> then i get to dig into my next project :)
[03:26:55] <jbk> i'm hoping there'll be as much interest as i think there might be in that one..
[03:28:10] <jbk> or to be a bit less convoluted, i hope i'm not misjudging the interest level
[03:29:02] <stevel> depends what project it is... :)
[03:32:59] <jbk> well, been talking about it a bit on sysadmin-discuss
[03:34:54] <jbk> but i want to close what I think are a few key gaps to using LDAP for user management
[03:35:05] *** sior|away is now known as sioraiocht
[03:35:06] <jbk> the biggest being handling authorization
[03:35:24] <jbk> but closely related is the setup
[03:37:06] <jbk> i want to basically be able to do on the client: pkgadd ... (if needed); ./setup-program; (perhaps enter a password), and the client is ready to go
[03:37:16] <jbk> on the server, I want it to be just about as simple
[03:38:19] <sommerfeld> jbk: on a vaguely related note I think I'm going to have to go down that route shortly (set up a test ldap server and some clients)
[03:39:57] <sommerfeld> but it looks like ldapaddent and friends are set up for a single "big bang" transition rather than feeding ldap incrementally from another authoritative data source..
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[03:43:17] <jbk> yeah
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[03:44:56] <jbk> my big thing (from where i've worked as well as talking to peers at other companies) is they want 1 data store for user/uid/passwords (which ldap gives them), but they still want to be able to control access to systems -- ldap doesn't really have any provision for restricting that in any sort of easily manageable way (at least once the number of servers gets larger and your access requirements get more complex)
[03:45:31] <jbk> right now, everyone resorts to object permission tricks (which have issues)
[03:46:01] <sommerfeld> I think Nicolas Williams was interested in some related work at one point.
[03:47:04] <jbk> what i was wanting to do was: extend pam_ldap/libsldap to support an extended operation -- essentially forward on all the pam data to the ldap server, as well as the hostname -- then the extended operation plugin/extension can implement whatever policy (presumably based off data in ldap, but also possibly by consulting other systems such as a change management system)
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[03:48:19] <sommerfeld> another related piece would be for different systems to have different views of what's in the RBAC-related maps
[03:48:26] <jbk> provide a default behavior that would allow a fair amount of flexibility in what it did (I was thinking have an entry in ldap for each server, either in a single ou, or nested however it makes sense for the organization), and on each entry you could specify either per user or per _ldap_ group
[03:48:36] <jbk> and if you're in the list, you match
[03:49:00] <jbk> sommerfeld: i was actually thinking of perhaps using a search control that would filter the results to do that
[03:49:34] <jbk> you could attach entries to a host (or if nexted, on the containing ou to allow it to inherit to its children) that could specify entries to add or subtract
[03:50:36] <jbk> with opends (at least) it really wouldn't be too hard to do the server side, and it minimizes the amount of changes needed on the client side (probably less than 200 lines of additional code to pam_ldap/nss_ldap)
[03:50:39] <sommerfeld> my ldap-fu is weak.
[03:51:58] <jbk> an extended operation is just a way to extend the functionality of the ldap server -- it's identified by an oid, and you just send asn.1 encoded data, and then it spits back out an asn.1 encoded reply
[03:52:55] <jbk> a search control is just a way to provide additional info about the search -- for example, one such control specifies that instead of returning the results all at once, send them a few entries at a time
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[03:55:25] <jbk> basically, when it's said and done, what I want is to be able to use arbitrary attributes of a user as part of a policy to control what they can do on a system
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[05:49:16] <stevel> triskelios: congrats
[05:49:29] <coraline> http://youtube.com/watch?v=6IfH6dYZLzE
[05:49:39] <boyd> I'm back on a nevada desktop for the first time in a while. Is there a way to get the gnome-terminal's fonts to look the same as they do in the font selection box?
[05:49:46] <boyd> The fonts in the selection box look nice, the ones in the term window look crappy
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[05:50:31] <boyd> I think it's refusing to do smoothing, even though it's enabled desktop-wide
[05:51:30] <Triskelios> stevel: what did I break?
[05:51:47] <stevel> triskelios: nothing. just saw your putback go in
[05:52:09] <stevel> at least i assume it was yours...
[05:52:12] <Triskelios> stevel: ah, thanks
[05:52:23] <Triskelios> audiohd?
[05:52:27] <stevel> yeah
[05:52:32] <stevel> 6512149 audiohd should support STAC9872 based codecs (Sony VAIO)
[05:52:50] <stevel> minskey just put it back about 30 mins. ago
[05:53:00] <Triskelios> cool
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[05:53:57] <Triskelios> boyd: I've only seen that happen to the default monospace font, which gets substituted for something different in many locales
[05:54:07] <Gman> Triskelios, woo, congrats!
[05:55:48] <boyd> Triskelios: Hmm...
[05:57:05] <stevel> boyd: what if you override the system font and choose a monospace one like luxi mono or bitstream?
[05:57:40] <Tempt> boyd: Don't use GNOME terminal? And make sure you aren't using the system font style? (is a checkbox)
[05:57:53] * boyd tries Bitstream Vera Sans Mono. Ugh.. It's still not anti-aliased and this one looks worse in bitmap.
[05:58:19] <Tempt> boyd: /usr/openwin/bin/xterm -fg wheat -bg black -cr red -ls -fn $FIXED_FONT
[05:58:20] <Triskelios> Gman: appreciate it, cheers
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[05:59:17] <Triskelios> boyd: regular jds, not vermilion?
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[05:59:37] <sfire||mouse> in linux there is bonded network interfaces, does Solaris have something similar?
[05:59:52] <boyd> I'm on Sparc b70
[05:59:55] * Gman wonders when liberation fonts will be integrated
[06:00:16] <CIA-16> cg149915: 6512149 audiohd should support STAC9872 based codecs (Sony VAIO), Contributed by Albert Lee <trisk+opensolaris at acm dot jhu.edu>
[06:00:23] <RElling> dladm is like bonding.  usually IPMP is preferred
[06:00:24] <stevel> there it is
[06:00:29] <sfire||mouse> hmm, IP multipathing group perhaps
[06:00:30] <stevel> sfire||mouse: trunking
[06:01:13] <jbk> depends on what you want to do
[06:01:13] <Tempt> boyd: If you're on SPARC grab PCOWtools and use mrxvt - it has tabs and does 256 colour ;)
[06:01:50] <boyd> Tempt: Sure, but a freaking terminal that doesn't make me puke out of the box seems like it isn't too much to ask.
[06:02:19] <stevel> boyd: it shouldn't be. what about luxi?  is it just not anti-aliasing *any* fonts?
[06:02:25] <Tempt> boyd: You're not supposed to be using the terminal in GNOME. I think the 'average user' who touches a terminal from time to time likes the default anti-aliases black on white GNOME terminal.
[06:02:29] <stevel> or is it just the monospace ones?
[06:02:44] * stevel uses gnome-terminal all the time
[06:03:30] <Triskelios> wonder if it behaves different under Xsun
[06:03:32] <boyd> stevel: Luxi? It's antialiasing in all the other apps, dialog boxes, the font selection box, but not the actual terminal widget
[06:03:41] <sfire||mouse> jbk: if that was to me, then I want a primary network interface, and a backup, if the first one fails
[06:03:52] <jbk> then use ipmp
[06:04:08] <sfire||mouse> reading the top google hit now
[06:04:15] <stevel> boyd: that's weird.  sorry, i've no idea.  perhaps gman or alanc know better...
[06:04:23] <stevel> i didn't gnome-terminal did anything different from what other gtk/gnome apps would do
[06:04:29] <stevel> didn't ^think
[06:04:30] <stevel> bah
[06:04:35] <boyd> I got you :)
[06:04:40] <Gman> it's a different widget
[06:04:53] <Gman> and goes through various stages of brokeness
[06:04:58] <Gman> so much better than libzvt :)
[06:05:08] <Triskelios> it's fine on my b70 (x86), though
[06:05:23] <stevel> ditto on my b70 & 71 machines
[06:05:24] <Tempt> boyd: I just fired up GNOME terminal on my blade/sol10 and flicked through the fonts. You're right, most of them don't work and having fired it up from a terminal the gnome-terminal app is complaining mightily about being unable to open fonts.
[06:05:31] <Tempt> that's on 11/06
[06:05:54] <boyd> Oh, it's been fine on 11/06.. I just LUed from it
[06:06:11] <Tempt> Well, on *my* 11/06 none of the fonts work properly in gnome-terminal.
[06:06:13] <boyd> (and yes it's a new account with no gnome settings preserved)
[06:06:24] <Tempt> and this session has never logged into gnome
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[06:06:52] <boyd> Never logging in may be worse... there's some support stuff that I don't understand... like gconfd
[06:06:53] * Triskelios installs the Liberation fonts so he won't have the urge the change the fonts around next upgrade
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[06:07:34] * LeftWing grumbles.
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[06:09:07] <Gman> Triskelios, if you provide a patch, we could include them in jds :)
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[06:13:27] <Triskelios> a patch against one of the jds packages? I guess all of the fonts right now from the X consolidation
[06:14:37] <Gman> SUNWgnome-fonts?
[06:14:54] <Gman> hrm, perhaps now
[06:14:55] <Gman> t
[06:15:20] <Gman> perhaps you're right, it's X
[06:15:25] <Tempt> SUNWfonts-that-dont-suck
[06:16:40] <Triskelios> the Liberation fonts are supposed to have the same metrics as the Monotype/MS fonts JDS is using right now
[06:20:25] <Triskelios> I personally like the Lucida fonts (which are shipped) for UI elements, except mozilla keeps trying to use the Type1 Lucida font if I choose Lucida Sans...
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[06:44:04] <Triskelios> ooh, fix0red gnome-terminal
[06:55:33] <jbk> what'd you do?
[06:56:53] <Triskelios> was referring to the binary Gman had just posted to desktop-discuss that has working hyperlink support
[06:57:26] <Gman> 'kludged' :)
[06:57:33] <Triskelios> (I assumed it was something wrong with my configuration before that)
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[07:00:04] <Gman> Triskelios, yeah, i had a look at gconf first, then asked one of the redhat dudes if it was working for him, then checked the patches we're applying
[07:00:20] <Gman> the patches made it rather obvious :)
[07:00:35] <Triskelios> hehe
[07:04:27] <jbk> heh something like just removing the whole function that implemented it? :)
[07:07:09] <Gman> not my patch ;)
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[08:06:49] <WickedMe> morning/afternoon/evening all
[08:07:12] <e^ipi> good $TIMEOFDAY to you
[08:07:32] <WickedMe> WickedWicky, you suck. go away
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[08:07:54] <WickedWicky> heya e^ipi
[08:08:54] <oninoshiko> hi WickedWicky
[08:09:01] * oninoshiko hates variables
[08:09:02] <WickedWicky> heya
[08:09:09] <WickedWicky> Hi will do :P
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[08:11:32] <WickedWicky> so what's the plan for today?
[08:13:20] <Triskelios> omg fingerprint reader drivers
[08:13:21] <Triskelios> yay!
[08:13:40] <Triskelios> hope they'll be CDDL
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[08:13:57] * Triskelios tests
[08:14:32] <Triskelios> grr, the packages are missing
[08:17:00] <e^ipi> or BSD
[08:17:56] <Triskelios> that would be much more unlikely, unfortunately...
[08:18:04] <dlg> mmmbsd
[08:18:12] <oninoshiko> Triskelios: why?
[08:18:50] * oninoshiko cannot understand why most h/w vendors would close a driver
[08:19:36] <e^ipi> because it's so far been the standard way of doing things?
[08:21:39] <oninoshiko> then again i also dont understand why the intel guy just tried to convenice me the mainboard might be at fault... i guess he didnt know they made it
[08:22:04] <dlg> e^ipi: depends on the type of hardware
[08:22:20] <dlg> and the vendor themselves
[08:22:31] <g4lt-sb100> oninoshiko, beecauwse the board isn't under warranty?
[08:23:17] <trochej> ROTFL
[08:23:40] <trochej> It seems that in Poland any publication that is updated more than once a year is a newspaper
[08:23:49] <trochej> And disregarding the medium
[08:23:54] <oninoshiko> my theory is the guy is a twit, but im not exactly his biggest fan
[08:23:59] <trochej> Which means, that my web page is also a paper
[08:24:15] <trochej> And I need to register it in court
[08:24:16] <trochej> ROTFL
[08:24:20] <oninoshiko> mostly because he's been waisting my time for three days or so
[08:24:54] <oninoshiko> "registar it in court?"
[08:26:13] <palowoda> trochej: Here in the states we are getting our news delivered on toilet paper nowdays.  It's eco friendly.
[08:27:05] <e^ipi> and it suits the material on the paper better as well
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[08:27:26] <trochej> oninoshiko: In P:oland, if you're printing newspaper, you need to register it in court
[08:27:35] <oninoshiko> why?
[08:27:48] <trochej> But right now the highest court interpreted our law, as stated above
[08:27:53] <trochej> oninoshiko: Law
[08:28:06] <palowoda> You have to register your webpages also?
[08:28:09] <e^ipi> press freedom is for counter-revolutionary capitalist pig-dogs
[08:28:20] <trochej> palowoda: Seems so, according to highest court
[08:28:33] <oninoshiko> i kinda ment what is the logic for the law
[08:29:23] <cmang_> hmm... so, a sun ultra 10, someone plugs in a monitor to the vga part, plugs a sun keyboard in, turns it on.  nothing to the screen and no sound besides poewr supply.  Same thing when he tries different monitors of varying ages (multisyncs, old vgas).  Also, nothing happens when turning it on with Ctrl-N pressed.  dead computer?
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[08:29:59] <e^ipi> oninoshiko: are you questioning the glorious Party policies? perhaps you'd like to spend some time in siberia?
[08:30:06] <palowoda> Most consider an Ultra 10 kind of a dead end yes.
[08:30:19] <cmang_> or rather, defective hardware at least?  My friend bought it (not sure why) and it seems DOA
[08:30:22] <oninoshiko> check with a terminal
[08:30:23] <cmang_> palowoda: heh
[08:30:34] <e^ipi> cmang_: anything pop up on the serial console?
[08:30:49] <cmang_> yeah, I recommended that.  don't think he has a serial console to check it with, but that sounds like the next step in troubleshooting
[08:31:05] <oninoshiko> e^ipi: well it would save me on A/C
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[08:34:52] <palowoda> trochej: Thinking about it taking place in the highest court over there.  They really must have some boring cases to consider.
[08:34:56] <Tempt> e^ipi: How's the coffee going?
[08:35:25] <e^ipi> pretty decent, still playing around with the machine
[08:35:43] <e^ipi> I'm running an ethiopia sidamo through it at the moment
[08:35:52] <e^ipi> and holy crap does it taste like lemons
[08:35:57] <Tempt> I think this is what you Americans call an "Americano" http://www.purplecow.org/?p=31
[08:36:18] <e^ipi> yeah, an americano is a different name for a long black
[08:36:35] <Tempt> The rich tiger-striped crema was more interesting, anyway.
[08:36:55] <e^ipi> yeah, i'm not getting that yet
[08:36:59] <trochej> palowoda: I believe it is a part of political war
[08:37:03] <e^ipi> still more practice involved
[08:37:29] <trochej> palowoda: Some time ago government got their way, and now everyone that is a redactor has to file a decommunisation file
[08:37:47] <trochej> If they are found to lie, there are severo consequenses
[08:37:53] <Tempt> e^ipi: There's some amusing looking milky drinks at http://www.purplecow.org/?p=35
[08:37:54] <e^ipi> ultimately i'm not a very good barista... i can steam milk pretty good, but I learned on super-autos at work, so getting decent espresso is something I'm still very new at
[08:38:03] <trochej> Right now everyone that has www page, blog, whatever becomes a redactor
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[08:38:06] <palowoda> trochej: Yeah over here we call it taxes.
[08:38:42] <trochej> :)
[08:39:14] <e^ipi> super-autos are evil... they shouldn't exist
[08:39:28] <palowoda> I even have to pay 100.00 a year for the water that flows through my property.
[08:39:40] <cmang_> I feel bad for my friend.  he actually paid money for the ultra10
[08:40:12] <Tempt> e^ipi: I agree, superautos are a baaad idea.
[08:42:12] <Tempt> e^ipi: However, I'd take a well tuned superauto over staff who don't care.
[08:43:28] <e^ipi> I tune my work bar every half hour or so... that and milk is about the only skillfull input I get, so I take advantage of it
[08:43:47] <Tempt> Did you like my milky coffee attempts?
[08:44:42] <e^ipi> heh, the java logo made me smile
[08:44:53] <boyd> Tempt: I thought an americano meant that it went through a filter and sat there for 3 hours.
[08:44:56] <e^ipi> and I like the etching
[08:45:11] <Tempt> boyd: Haha, you mean stewed for six hours.
[08:45:18] <e^ipi> boyd: that's american drip coffee... an americano is espresso and hot water
[08:45:23] <Tempt> e^ipi: hot liquid chocolate
[08:45:45] <boyd> Ahh.. so it's a weak double espresso :)
[08:45:53] <Tempt> No.
[08:45:53] <e^ipi> boyd: pretty much, yeah
[08:45:58] <Tempt> It's an espresso with hot water.
[08:46:04] <boyd> yes, I read that above
[08:46:13] <palowoda> Burnt espresso reduction.
[08:46:24] <e^ipi> not necessarily burnt
[08:46:29] <Tempt> boyd: Found a new city coffee place.
[08:46:34] <boyd> Tempt: oh?
[08:46:39] <boyd> Where's that?
[08:46:43] <e^ipi> you can pour a very excellent espresso in to hot water & it's an americano
[08:46:45] <Tempt> boyd: Double espresso is 90% crema exhibiting good 'guinness effect'.
[08:47:15] <e^ipi> why you'd abuse a good shot of espresso that way i'm not sure, but there have you
[08:47:18] <WickedWicky> it's like a rock on your stomach?
[08:47:19] <Tempt> boyd: Funnily enough, it's called 'crema' and is located on Exhibition between Collins and Flinders Lane.
[08:47:33] <boyd> Tempt: should do lunch some time
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[08:48:28] <Tempt> e^ipi: The long black can actually liberate flavours that are too subtle in the espresso format. The secret is not to use boiling water, use water around 70 degrees C (I just heat my water using the steam wand), don't use manky boiler water and float the crema over the top of the water.
[08:49:41] * boyd is either caffe latte (In the early AM) or long {macchiatto,black}
[08:49:52] * WickedWicky is a Frape fan
[08:50:07] <e^ipi> I can't drink lattes... /way/ too much milk
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[08:50:45] <Tempt> Short machiatto
[08:50:54] <Tempt> a drink with so many possibilities
[08:50:59] <jmcp> e^ipi: if you go to Italy and ask for a "Latte" they'll give you a glass of milk
[08:51:08] <WickedWicky> since latte is milk
[08:51:08] <WickedWicky> :P
[08:51:12] <e^ipi> yeah, I tend towards straight shot, machiatto, and a very occasional cappuccino
[08:51:13] <WickedWicky> same in portuguese
[08:51:13] <jmcp> :)
[08:51:24] <WickedWicky> leite/latte
[08:51:41] <e^ipi> or press/plunger/whatever, which is my normal drink
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[08:52:28] <boyd> If you're just joining us, welcome to the #opensolaris' regular coffee geek feature.
[08:52:31] <Tempt> Take a shot of kahlua, use your single-spout portafilter to float a double espresso over the top and then float some milk on top of that.
[08:53:44] <g4lt-sb100> bah, take a couple of shots of kahlua and drink circle k coffee
[08:54:38] <palowoda> Circle K coffee is those little round spots you find in a cow pasture.
[08:55:27] <g4lt-sb100> palowoda, still beats espresso
[08:55:34] <Tempt> Circle K?
[08:55:41] <e^ipi> Tempt: gas station
[08:55:49] <g4lt-sb100> Tempt, the original inconvenience store
[08:56:02] <Tempt> Ouch.
[08:56:17] <palowoda> You don't even want to ask what's in the cup.
[08:56:18] <e^ipi> heh, "inconvenience store"
[08:56:32] <e^ipi> one 8 foot high shelf, everything's stored on the top
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[08:57:01] <Tempt> you get knifed by the junkies outside
[08:57:06] <Tempt> and robbed by the pakis inside.
[08:57:23] <boyd> "Thank you, come again"
[08:57:27] <Tempt> And they still don't have your brand of smokes at 3am
[08:57:30] <palowoda> Look at the bright side they don't take your coffee.
[08:57:31] <g4lt-sb100> Tempt, one of the few places that has jars of pickled pigs feet that they actually expect to sell
[08:57:43] <boyd> hehe
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[08:57:55] <Tempt> The 711 near my work is amazing.
[08:57:56] * boyd recalls being at a campground somewhere in germany with 2 mates.
[08:58:03] <Tempt> Every time I got there they try to short change me.
[08:58:20] <boyd> one mate brings a jar of meaty bits to the camp and says "I can't believe how cheap this is"
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[08:58:36] <Tempt> "meaty bits". Deeeeee-licious
[08:58:39] * boyd reads the jar: "Schweinkopf"
[08:58:45] <WickedWicky> lol
[08:58:47] <WickedWicky> pigheads
[08:58:50] <boyd> "you kow what they says, right?"
[08:58:53] <g4lt-sb100> boyd, well, at this point, aren't you glad you were outdoors?
[08:59:02] <boyd> "no, something about offcuts"
[08:59:03] <Tempt> Mmm, lips and arseholes.
[08:59:12] <boyd> "no it's pigs head"
[08:59:16] <palowoda> boyd: They forgot the vinegar.
[08:59:24] <boyd> "hehe sure" *cooks up meal"
[08:59:47] <Tempt> Was it uber-tasty?
[08:59:48] <boyd> He actually ate some of it, but only enough to say he had eaten some IMNSHO
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[09:00:17] <boyd> I have a photo somewhere.
[09:00:22] <palowoda> Rat or dog is much better.
[09:00:31] <boyd> Said he felt crook later... I think it was psychosomatic
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[09:00:39] <Tempt> oink
[09:02:45] <Tempt> I found old pictures of my stress pig. I think the state of the paint job indicates how much fun VVR is to work with (http://www.purplecow.org/?p=41)
[09:03:11] <boyd> Geez, man.. blogging like a machine
[09:03:23] <trochej> :)
[09:03:34] <Tempt> boyd: On two blogs, at that!
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[09:31:57] <WickedWicky> http://jake.ruivo.org/~patrick/IMG_0412.JPG
[09:32:02] <WickedWicky> this is what I will be drinking today
[09:32:06] <WickedWicky> freshly made autobar coffee
[09:32:19] <WickedWicky> from the very same machine that delivers chocolate and soup
[09:32:45] <kjetilho> WickedWicky: I love the transparancy of your chinaware
[09:32:59] <WickedWicky> yes, it's ming porcelain
[09:33:06] <WickedWicky> ming plastic
[09:33:08] <WickedWicky> bit cheaper
[09:33:15] <e^ipi> as much as I'm fueled by an addiction to caffeine, there's only so low I'll go
[09:33:39] <WickedWicky> you pick your battles after a while
[09:34:00] <WickedWicky> during lunch breaks I always go out for a coffee
[09:34:16] <e^ipi> it's not a battle you need to pick, really...
[09:34:23] <e^ipi> I have a travel mug with a press pot in it
[09:34:41] <WickedWicky> hey
[09:34:46] <WickedWicky> that's actually a good idea
[09:34:49] <kjetilho> even a coffee master is better, and just as convenient
[09:34:59] <e^ipi> coffee master?
[09:35:02] <kjetilho> (better than americano anyway, if you just want plain black coffee)
[09:35:21] <kjetilho> you know, those who brew pots
[09:35:34] <kjetilho> coffee master may be a Scandinavian brand, I don't know
[09:35:38] <e^ipi> likely
[09:35:53] <e^ipi> Mr.Coffee is a more universal brand drip brewer
[09:36:18] <kjetilho> ok.  (and the brand here is actually "Mocca Master" come to think of it)
[09:36:27] <e^ipi> me & drip coffee have a sordid relationship
[09:36:50] <e^ipi> i think it tastes stale & sour the minute it comes out
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[09:37:31] <kjetilho> not with a Mocca Master which gets some care :-)
[09:37:34] <WickedWicky> Tempt and i agreed we'll raid your place when I come over for holidays one day
[09:37:44] <kjetilho> decalcination once a week, that sort of thing
[09:38:11] <kjetilho> maintenance levels and quality probably depends on your tap water
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[09:39:13] <e^ipi> WickedWicky: to whom was that addressed ?
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[09:54:21] <WickedWicky> to you eh
[09:54:32] <WickedWicky> we'll drink as much coffee as we can
[09:54:50] <WickedWicky> and with every coffee we'll ask for expert advise
[09:55:36] <e^ipi> why would Tempt need expert advice?
[09:55:48] <WickedWicky> he doesnt, but its always fun to see somebody else do the hard work
[09:56:40] <WickedWicky> eventough, looking at the purplecow, Tempt had his fair share of coffee testing
[09:57:32] <e^ipi> so, evidently I was /in/ vancouver when artigianos (a high-end cafe) was brewing la hacienda de Esmerelda Especiale, I just hadn't heard that they were, so i didn't get around to going
[09:58:08] <e^ipi> from all the hype it got (and the price it fetched at auction), I'd have gladly paid the $15/cup they were asking
[09:58:27] <WickedWicky> .. $15 for a coffee...
[09:58:28] <WickedWicky> :s
[09:59:18] <e^ipi> the green was $131/lb...
[09:59:29] <e^ipi> a pound of it roasted is $270
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[10:01:10] <WickedWicky> jeez
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[10:01:32] <trochej> Yeah
[10:01:40] <trochej> I like coffee, but I think not that much
[10:02:00] <e^ipi> I'd never buy a pound of it, but a cup of it, why not?
[10:02:50] <e^ipi> it's only $15 canadian
[10:03:18] <e^ipi> and not an every day thing
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[10:15:40] <WickedWicky> I think every canadian would pay ca$ 15 for a cup of coffee if it doesnt taste like the regular crap
[10:15:58] <asyd> \_o<
[10:16:03] <WickedWicky> quack
[10:18:14] <Tempt> oh for an over-and-under and some shells.
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[10:19:33] <renihs> sounds expensive
[10:19:44] <renihs> sounds like you cant have a working IT there :p
[10:21:52] <e^ipi> ?
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[10:34:36] <renihs> no coffee= a bad thing
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[10:34:55] <noyb> no spam = good thing.  :)
[10:35:47] <renihs> depends :p
[10:36:04] <phimic> hi all
[10:36:07] <renihs> i dont like getting spam, however i am not *that* unhappy that its around
[10:36:36] <phimic> i searched for an driver for intel hd sound for opensolaris but i did not found something
[10:36:44] <noyb> no.  the "meat" product.
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[10:37:23] <phimic> the sun hardware verification utility tell me that this soundcard will not be compatible
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[10:38:42] <noyb> nevermind.  Just a little blibber-blabber.  Just got back from a little vacation, so I jumped on the first comment.
[10:38:55] * noyb goes back to lurking...
[10:39:11] * renihs likes to lurk in quakewars :p
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[10:45:28] <e^ipi> phimic: meh, just install OSS and be done with it
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[10:47:20] <phimic> e^ipi: what you do mean? this the sound works out of the box?
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[10:47:24] <WickedWicky> crap, I left my phone in the bus
[10:47:58] <Fish-> hello
[10:48:03] <e^ipi> phimic: if solaris' native sound stuff can't use your card, install OSS, and it will probably work
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[10:48:53] <phimic> e^ipi: i will try it
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[11:23:35] <bochnig> yes, use OSS, else Juergen Keil's drivers: http://www.tools.de/opensource/solaris/audio/
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[11:32:57] <serenity_> hmm... I'm having trouble with disconnect on NATed boxes (via IP Filter on SX 64a). the line never goes down, 0% packet loss but connections to chat servers etc are lost... my ipf.conf is empty atm, and ipnat.conf only has the standrd map line, any ideas?
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[12:13:23] <boyd> Could it be that the state entries for the connections are timing out on idle?
[12:14:15] <renihs> chats are usually never idle :p
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[12:17:02] <serenity_> doesn't seem like it, I joined an IRC channel and was disconnected before I could type "test" :/
[12:17:17] <JainuX> test://
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[12:21:55] <serenity_> ipnat -l shows a bunch of sessions to my nameserver, is that normal? too many sessions isn't a problem, I hope (torrents and such)
[12:22:06] <renihs> nameserver?
[12:22:22] <renihs> unless it does zone transfers you shouldnt have sessions (default dns= udp)
[12:22:46] <serenity_> yeah, I thought that was odd for that very reason... it's just a plain old DNS client
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[12:23:17] <mbalmer> ola
[12:23:34] <dlg> ola
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[12:50:20] <madhatter> re
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[12:56:57] <Strykar> hi
[12:57:37] <Strykar> can I ask Belenix/grub related questions here
[12:58:06] <Tempt> No.
[12:59:38] <Cyrille> you can try
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[13:18:14] <Strykar> Cyrille: i installed belenix to the HDD in a VM, and got this error, editing paths to the ones specified by it don't help, and not installing grub, still install it
[13:18:15] <Strykar> http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/7778/belenixgrubia0.jpg
[13:19:56] <WickedWicky> ugh
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[13:25:18] <dlg> gdamore!
[13:28:35] <Cyrille> Strykar, sorry, I can't help here. I assume you tried editing the paths with some real directory instead of $ISADIR, right?
[13:29:38] <Strykar> Cyrille: yes, i played with a few ideas, i've never used grub, and the x86 solaris multi-boot page didn't help, what are typical sane values there?
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[13:31:53] <Cyrille> unfortunately I can't say for sure as I don't have an OpenSolaris box on hand.
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[13:33:27] <Strykar> ok, i'll dig thru grub/belenix boot documentation
[13:33:28] <Strykar> thanks
[13:33:31] <Cyrille> Strykar, actually, on the one I found it looks like there's no intermediate path between i86pc and boot_archive
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[13:34:10] <Cyrille> Strykar, did you try with nothing instead of the /$ISADIR part?
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[13:34:47] <Strykar> Cyrille: that was the first change i made when grub barfed
[13:35:14] <Cyrille> alright then, I'm out of ideas (not that I have any particular expertise in that area to begin with...)
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[13:48:48] <phimic> hello all is there a driver for the Netlink BCM5789 card
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[14:25:17] <Gekkko[PDA]> ein Berliner!
[14:25:55] <Berny> wo?
[14:26:06] <Berny> .oO(in berlin...)
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[14:27:22] <Gekkko[PDA]> ein = a
[14:27:39] * Berny knows that
[14:27:57] <Berny> .oO(thats what i bloody talk every day :>)
[14:28:02] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol
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[14:28:10] <hile_> you're a jelly donut?
[14:28:16] <Tempt> mmm
[14:28:17] <Tempt> donut
[14:28:20] <Berny> did you have a berliner for lunch?
[14:28:28] <Gekkko[PDA]> no.
[14:28:29] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol
[14:28:37] <Gekkko[PDA]> i had two
[14:28:39] <Gekkko[PDA]> xD
[14:28:42] <Berny> or did you meet "einen berliner"
[14:28:45] <Berny> lol
[14:28:46] <Tempt> Berny: Didja check my very terse tutorial on TS/SSGD?
[14:28:57] <Berny> Tempt: url?
[14:29:39] <Tempt> http://www2.purplecow.org/?p=41
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[14:30:12] <Tempt> the main thing is the policy config stuff
[14:30:15] <Tempt> everything else is logical
[14:30:47] <Berny> hi laca
[14:30:51] * Berny is going for a read
[14:31:07] <laca> Hey Berny
[14:32:48] <WickedWicky> I am royaly screwed
[14:32:59] <WickedWicky> life sucks at times
[14:33:00] <Gekkko[PDA]> how so?
[14:33:00] <WickedWicky> bah
[14:33:07] <Berny> nice one Tempt!
[14:33:07] <Cyrille> at times?
[14:33:09] <WickedWicky> I left my Sony Ericson K800i in the bus
[14:33:15] <Berny> yikes
[14:33:16] <Cyrille> ouch
[14:33:16] <Gekkko[PDA]> fuck.
[14:33:29] <WickedWicky> I blocked the simm
[14:33:47] <WickedWicky> but it was a very nice phone :s
[14:34:04] <WickedWicky> I hope someone is honest enough to deliver it to the "lost and found" department
[14:34:12] <Berny> hey tempt you blogged the oracle sga stuff as well :-)
[14:34:22] <Gekkko[PDA]> WickedWicky: rofl
[14:34:24] <Berny> a.k.a as ebay?
[14:34:29] <Gekkko[PDA]> honesty
[14:35:03] <Tempt> Berny: I'm just churnin' em out lately. Every time someone asks me something I figure I might as well write it up for next time
[14:35:24] <Tempt> Berny: Grab a feed, there's a stack of articles in the pipeline
[14:35:53] <Cyrille> good reflex, someone asked me recently what time it was, I should have blogged about it so that I'll know it the next time ;-)
[14:36:01] <Berny> lol
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[14:40:04] <Gekkko[PDA]> fishing tomorrow, yay
[14:40:22] <Tempt> mmm
[14:40:23] <Tempt> beer
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[14:50:31] <trochej> coffee
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[14:58:03] <Tempt> fishing and coffee aren't quite same match as fishing and beer
[14:58:21] <Tempt> couple of stubbies, line in the water.
[14:59:48] <Berny> .oO(put beer in water... fish might just jump into your nets)
[14:59:50] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol
[15:00:38] <Tempt> if you're really want to catch fish, dynamite.
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[15:00:59] <Gekkko[PDA]> pfft no
[15:01:02] <Gekkko[PDA]> corn.
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[15:15:36] <Tempt> hmmmmmm
[15:15:46] <Tempt> lounge room laptop finally blew a spindle
[15:15:47] <Tempt> so
[15:16:02] <Tempt> Anyone used PXE to boot a diskless Solaris/OpenSolaris?
[15:16:31] <quasi> only to jet
[15:16:38] <Tempt> jet?
[15:16:41] <Berny> no pixies here
[15:16:49] <Berny> jumpstart enterprise toolkit
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[15:17:03] <Tempt> What's JET gotta do with anything?
[15:17:15] <Berny> jet is *nice*
[15:17:24] <Tempt> JET is nice, but you can do JS without it.
[15:18:05] <quasi> Tempt: something like http://blogs.sun.com/thaniwa/entry/en_diskless_solaris_x86_p1 ... http://blogs.sun.com/thaniwa/entry/en_diskless_solaris_x86_p5
[15:18:17] <Tempt> Hmm, craptop isn't even picking up a DHCP address, unless PXE requires special DHCP
[15:18:26] <Tempt> quasi: You rock; thanks.
[15:19:30] <quasi> ;)
[15:19:44] <Tempt> Now to work out why PXE isn't finding a DHCP address.
[15:20:11] <Berny> ping the ip address to your craptop 8-)
[15:20:23] <Tempt> craptop isn't getting an IP!
[15:20:33] <Berny> that's how to set the ip!
[15:20:48] <Tempt> oh, pin the IP
[15:20:49] <quasi> Tempt: start the dhcp server with -D to see why
[15:20:58] <Berny> .oO(at least this works for apcc's snmp adapters)
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[15:21:05] <Tempt> Shouldn't it get one anyway? And I don't think the Solaris DHCP has anything so easy as -D ;)
[15:21:26] <Tempt> I'll shelve it until later.
[15:21:30] <quasi> Tempt: solaris dhcp does have something that easy
[15:21:48] <Berny> add the mac-ip-combo to your local box's arp cache, send a ping with 113bytes to the ip and the adapter has its ip set
[15:21:51] <Tempt> I think I'll take the put-feet-up option.
[15:22:02] <quasi> Tempt: just disable the service and run the same command by hand with -D
[15:23:19] <Tempt> nifty.
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[15:27:51] <Tempt> ha! GPL at work: http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20070829001634
[15:28:11] <asyd> anyone have ever tested hyperic ?
[15:28:13] <asyd> quasi: maybe ?
[15:29:18] <Tempt> hyperic rocks
[15:29:20] <quasi> asyd: nope
[15:29:21] <Tempt> I use it
[15:29:24] <Tempt> at home and at work.
[15:29:25] <asyd> ok
[15:29:30] <asyd> the free version?
[15:29:39] <Tempt> just make sure you give it Oracle, not postgresql
[15:29:44] <asyd> :)
[15:29:53] <Tempt> Yeah, the free version, but we're looking at buying it with support at work. Give something back and all.
[15:29:58] <asyd> ok
[15:30:14] <Tempt> I'm not joking - it fell apart with postgres and postgres ate a shittin of CPU - smooth as silk under Oracle.
[15:30:17] <asyd> have you ever tried to extend it ? add your own agent modules for example
[15:30:18] <asyd> ok
[15:30:34] <Tempt> I haven't tried, but they provide doco
[15:30:51] <Tempt> It instruments so much out of the box I didn't actually need anything.
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[15:44:43] <virumandi> hi all, could some one help me building opensolaris. I have installed all the necessary components. and modified the opensolaris.sh script also. when i execute  nightly opensolaris.sh , i shouts me like " /opt/onbld/bin/nightly[1413]: dmake:  not found;  dmake is missing.
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[15:49:10] <PerterB> make sure /opt/SUNWspro/bin is on your PATH
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[15:52:08] <virumandi> PeterB: yes, it is in the path only. But /opt/SUNWspro/bin directory does not contain anything. I installed SPROmrdbx package which i have got from sunstudio-11
[15:52:25] <virumandi> but the directory /opt/SUNWspro/bin exists!.
[15:52:32] <virumandi> do i have to install any more packages?
[15:53:40] <PerterB> dmake is in SPROdmake
[15:53:47] <PerterB> and obviously you'll need the actual compilers :)
[15:54:08] <pschow> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/tools/sun_studio_tools/sun_studio_11_tools/
[15:54:54] <virumandi> so, do i have to install all the packages available in kits/ide/packages which i get from untarring studio11-sol-x86.tar
[15:55:35] <Tempt> Don't try pulling scraps out of studio
[15:55:38] <Tempt> Just install the lot.
[15:55:51] <Tempt> You won't be building much without a compiler anyway.
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[15:58:10] <virumandi> Oh.. i just tried bzip2 -dc studio-11-...bz2 | tar xf -
[15:58:23] <flyingparchment> use the installer
[15:58:27] <flyingparchment> didn't you read the manual?
[15:58:30] <virumandi> pschow: thanks for the link. will follow the steps.
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[16:14:49] <oxygene> Tempt: opensolaris could be built with gcc, too
[16:15:16] <oxygene> and just using make instead of dmake also seems to work
[16:15:31] <Tempt> gcc vs spro?
[16:15:32] <PerterB> by default nightly(1) does both Studio and gcc builds
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[16:16:00] <Tempt> Why drive a lada when you can have a ferrari?
[16:16:23] <oxygene> Tempt: because the ferrari is utter crap on anything but highways
[16:16:26] <PerterB> a broken down lada, even... (or do gcc builds now work?)
[16:17:02] <oxygene> PerterB: that was what the shadow builds where supposed to ensure..
[16:17:29] <Tempt> oxygene: Aaah, and quality hardware and operating systems would be a highway, whereas shitty platforms would be a cobblestone laneway at a 60 degree angle with rocks scattered over the place and an oil slick?
[16:17:55] <oxygene> Tempt: give me sun studio for ppc, arm and mips, then we'll talk.
[16:18:12] <PerterB> oxygene: sorry, I phrased that badly... the shadow builds ensure it compiles, but I thought that currently a gcc-built kernel wouldn't run
[16:18:48] <oxygene> PerterB: in that case, that shadow build facade could as well be dropped in my opinion
[16:19:26] <PerterB> Tempt: highway metaphors - http://www.sorted.org/~pete/highway.txt
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[16:19:59] <PerterB> oxygene: personally I disable the shadow build, but I'm sure the intent is to makea fully-gcc-built Solaris work in time, it just hasn't happened yet
[16:20:20] <oxygene> PerterB: let me guess: indiana?
[16:20:25] * oxygene runs for cover
[16:20:30] <PerterB> ouch :)
[16:21:13] <oxygene> :)
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[16:21:50] <PerterB> I don't have a reference to hand, but I'm sure I remember it being stated very early on that gcc builds should be fully supported
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[16:24:04] <Tempt> muahaha
[16:24:06] <Tempt> haha.
[16:24:11] <Tempt> Superhighway indeed.
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[16:48:00] <virumandi> PeterB: i installed sunstudio-11 properly. but struck with some other error while running nightly opensolaris.sh  -> i386 build of my-copy apparently already started by  on  as . mkdir: Failed to make directory "/opensolaris/my-copy/log/log.2007-08-29"; No such file or directory mv: cannot access /opensolaris/my-copy/log/proto_list_i386
[16:48:00] <virumandi> /opt/onbld/bin/nightly[30]: /opensolaris/my-copy/log/nightly.log: cannot create
[16:49:19] <PerterB> permissions problem?
[16:49:48] <virumandi> i am running as 'root' user only
[16:51:22] <virumandi> PeterB: can i create a 'log' directory explictly?
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[16:52:35] <PerterB> yuck... don't do it as root
[16:54:52] <virumandi> but, i have the files in /opensolaris
[16:56:18] <PerterB> so chown /opensolaris to be owned by a normal user and run the build as that user
[16:57:07] * virumandi is trying
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[16:58:40] <PerterB> I'll say :)
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[17:00:17] <CIA-16> jp161948: PSARC/2007/032 ssh disable banner, 4972643 wants banner page to display but not when issuing commands
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[17:04:06] <virumandi> PeterB: Thanks , it is working now.
[17:04:21] <PerterB> score
[17:05:04] <virumandi> :)
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[17:33:39] <PerterB> hmm, hyperic doesn't run very well in low memory, does it? :)
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[17:34:20] <asyd> PerterB: indeed :)
[17:34:56] * PerterB looks for another server with a bit more RAM to give it a whirl
[17:36:01] <asyd> how many ram you have?
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[17:36:23] <asyd> if  you want few days, i'll able to give you access to mine, but not sure that you want though
[17:37:26] <PerterB> that particular server has 512M and is currently paging "a bit" ;)
[17:37:32] <kjetilho> asyd: only 1 ram, but 4 camels!
[17:37:54] <Tempt> PerterB: Having RAM problems with Hyperic?
[17:38:02] <Tempt>     10 hyperic  1341M  611M   2.0%  18:20:43 2.3%
[17:38:03] <PerterB> ta, but don't worry I'll find another one... although so far I'm either finding RAM or free disk space but not both
[17:38:10] <Tempt> that includes multiple agents running in zones
[17:38:32] <PerterB> maybe I'll just install it on a client's systems
[17:38:41] <Tempt>     13       26  512M  222M   0.7%   8:03:12 0.3% hyperic
[17:38:51] <Tempt> 222M of RSS for whole hyperic zone
[17:38:55] <Tempt> That's not too bad
[17:39:00] <asyd> PerterB: :)
[17:39:11] <PerterB> how much does the agent chew up, that's java too, right?
[17:39:22] <Tempt> Yeah, the agent is java.
[17:39:58] <PerterB> I'm ok with the concepts, but JVMs aren't noted for their low memory footprint and some of the machines we need to monitor are a bit constrained
[17:40:10] <Tempt> Up to about 64Mb per agent instance
[17:40:14] <Tempt> (RSS)
[17:40:17] <PerterB> oh that's fine
[17:40:36] <Tempt> So I'm not sure where you're getting the RAM problems.
[17:40:43] <Tempt> oh, except the Oracle instance behind Hyperic.
[17:40:44] <asyd> the server ?
[17:40:46] <Tempt> That can be a little hungry.
[17:40:49] <PerterB> that was on the server
[17:40:50] <asyd> need some memory
[17:41:07] <PerterB> it's on order :)
[17:41:09] <Tempt> My hyperic zone is consuming 222M of RSS. Not exactly stress territory.
[17:41:30] <asyd> that's sound nice
[17:41:35] <PerterB> 13 hyperic  1176M  734M    97%   0:04:22  15%
[17:41:36] <asyd> for how many agents ?
[17:42:15] <PerterB> (that's including its bundled postgres though)
[17:42:21] <Tempt> You'll be sorry
[17:42:30] <Tempt> I tried to warn you.
[17:42:53] <PerterB> just for POC, I don't want to have to deal with our Oracle DBA today ;)
[17:43:08] <Tempt> dbca
[17:43:09] <Tempt> :)
[17:45:19] * PerterB sucks his teeth - that would be more than my job's worth
[17:45:50] <PerterB> well, that's totally untrue but I would get whined at and I'm in no mood for that
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[17:57:33] <oninoshiko> in zfs, if i have a FS that i make a clone of, then i take a number of snapshots, and then promote the clone. what happens to the snapshots?
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[18:06:06] <oninoshiko> n/m
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[18:34:23] <hrlmec> We have a server with 4 cores (2 dual core CPU's).  When I do an mpstat, one of the cores is locked at 100% system usage...but it shows a 0 for syscl's.  Why would that be happening?  Is the core going bad?
[18:35:36] <hrlmec> http://pastebin.com/d1079238d
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[18:41:26] <stevel> what's that one interrupt doing?
[18:41:33] <stevel> try using intrstat
[18:41:42] <stevel> and see if you have some interrupt going crazy and consuming that cpu
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[18:43:36] <hrlmec> http://pastebin.com/d2b5b10d2
[18:47:22] <Berny> hehe your ethernet drives is eating *A LOT* of cpu time
[18:48:13] <PerterB> lockstat might be handy too to get some samples of kernel stack traces
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[18:49:53] <hrlmec> hmm...never used lockstat before...let me go check the man page
[18:50:22] <PerterB> it's a little complex but there should be an example for collecting stacks
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[18:58:42] <hrlmec> hmmm....I got something.  Not sure if it's what you suggested.
[18:58:46] <hrlmec> http://pastebin.com/d503da7bb
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[19:00:51] <PerterB> hrlmec: looks useful... the first 3 entries say 75% of the time it's somewhere in cpu_halt
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[19:03:03] <PerterB> although come to think of it, that's the 3 idle CPUs, duh
[19:03:06] <stevel> cpu_halt is what's called when it's idling
[19:03:14] <PerterB> yeah
[19:03:16] <hrlmec> yea
[19:03:19] <hrlmec> ahhh...that's cool
[19:03:20] <stevel> so it consumes less power
[19:03:31] <stevel> your fourth cpu is in mutex_enter
[19:03:31] <hrlmec> yea...cpu3 is the one going crazy and it's howing the same thing over and over (I think)
[19:03:50] <hrlmec> what's htable_lookup?
[19:04:01] <hrlmec> (sorry..Im still new to a lot of this stuff)
[19:04:26] <stevel> http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/uts/i86pc/vm/htable.c#1029
[19:04:36] <stevel> somewhere in the bowels of the VM code it looks like
[19:08:37] <PerterB> there be dragons
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[19:09:17] <hrlmec> This just started happening, which is odd.  The server was running for months.  I rebooted it the other night and this started.
[19:09:53] <hrlmec> And now for some reason the load jumps from it's normal .20 or .30 (1 min) to 215(!)..then drops back in 5 minutes to normal levels.
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[19:11:52] * stevel agrees with PerterB
[19:11:55] <Marv|Home> is there anyway to print the dependent items of a service in SMF
[19:12:09] <stevel> svcs -d
[19:12:15] <stevel> oh wait. dependent
[19:12:35] <stevel> svcs -l
[19:12:55] <stevel> e.g. svcs -l multi-user will tell you the services that have dependencies on the multi-user milestone
[19:13:01] <Marv|Home> thanks stevel
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[19:28:00] <communicator> howdy
[19:28:07] <Xtrondo> MA MEN!
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[19:39:11] <Triskelios> wow, dclarke just basically trolled desktop-discuss
[19:40:58] <e^ipi> ?
[19:43:34] <Triskelios> claiming you can't do virtualisation on Solaris, and calling QEMU an "emulator"
[19:44:04] <LeftWing> Well it's more emulator than hypervisor.
[19:44:35] <Triskelios> LeftWing: sure, but it's as close as you get without paravirtualisation
[19:44:45] <LeftWing> Which is still not hugely close. :P
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[19:46:55] <Triskelios> LeftWing: the problem is he's contrasting to vmware
[19:48:49] <Triskelios> and outright ignoring Xen
[19:49:57] <LeftWing> Xen isn't particularly easy to get going at the moment, is it?
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[19:52:05] <Triskelios> there is a regular install image for Xen-enabled snv builds
[19:52:40] <holcomb> finding a motherboard/chip that definitely supports the intel/amd vt stuff is harder than getting xen going
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[20:00:17] <CIA-16> edp: 6560789 BrandZ modules should not use SCCS keywords in user-visible strings, 6598081 zonecfg (verify) fails for lx zone using SUNWlx
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[20:29:44] <hrlmec> Is there any way to tell what process is blocking a core?  I have a core with 100% sys utilization, no calls of any kind...just intr values.
[20:31:35] <micken> fuser ?
[20:32:09] <micken> ahh cpu core
[20:32:11] <micken> :)
[20:32:24] <sommerfeld> hrlmec: lockstat profiling is what I'd use
[20:32:55] <sommerfeld> or mdb -k  and ::cpuinfo -v
[20:33:12] <sommerfeld> (the latter will show what threads are running on each cpu)
[20:33:28] <hrlmec> yea..someone suggested that before...I ahve the output, but I'm not sure whate verything means exactly (I'm still trying to learn a lot of this stuff)
[20:33:30] <sommerfeld> lockstat profiling will show where in the kernel they're hanging out
[20:33:45] <flyingparchment> high intr could be a hardware device
[20:33:50] <sommerfeld> put it up on a paste site somewhere and send the URL here.
[20:34:27] <hrlmec> http://pastebin.com/d503da7bb
[20:34:41] <hrlmec> it's cpu[3] that's the problem.
[20:34:56] <hrlmec> mutex_enter, htable_release, htable_scan over and over
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[20:35:37] <hrlmec> oops and htable_lookup
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[20:36:31] <sommerfeld> ah.  it's the the grim thread reaper
[20:37:58] <hrlmec> what's it basically doing?
[20:38:47] <sommerfeld> a thread can't destroy itself, so it queues itself on death row and wakes up the reaper thread to finish its destruction.
[20:38:59] <hrlmec> oh..sorry, flying.  I didn't see your comment before.  It'snot really hight intr's, though...it's almost always 1 or 2.
[20:39:04] <sommerfeld> uts/common/disp/thread.c
[20:39:44] <stevel> sweet. suicidal threads rule.
[20:39:55] <hrlmec> hehe
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[20:40:46] <sommerfeld> so, either (a) there are so many threads exiting on the system that you keep an entire core busy cleaning them up, or (b) the deathrow data structure is screwed u
[20:40:56] <stevel> Solaris supports a thread's right to euthenasia.
[20:41:03] <stevel> euthreadnasia?
[20:41:13] <stevel> okay i'm done with the thread killing puns now.
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[20:41:24] <hrlmec> this just started after we rebooted the server.  it ran for months wiht no problem.  no software was changed...it was just rebooted.  So I'm guessing something got screwed up on deathrow somehow?
[20:41:32] <nrubsig> stevel: Human thread euthenasia
[20:41:43] <nrubsig> stevel: thread death injection.
[20:41:46] <sommerfeld> it looks like there is some userspace code running on that cpu as well.
[20:41:54] <nrubsig> stevel: or electric thread chair
[20:42:13] <sommerfeld> oh, wait, no, that's cpu[0]
[20:42:33] <nrubsig> stevel: would it make sense to link http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/ on http://www.opensolaris.org somehow ?
[20:42:45] <Uncle_Muscle> Anyone had luck with SiI 3512 SATA host controller?   During kernel boot, it locks-up on "configuring /dev"
[20:42:56] <nrubsig> Uncle_Muscle: ask jmcp
[20:42:59] <Uncle_Muscle> works like a charm with AHA-2940 on the same machine
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[20:43:28] <hrlmec> Can I manually find that thread and kill it somehow?  Every once in a while, the server load jumps from .20 to 200+ (in one minute), then dies down immediately.
[20:44:49] <sommerfeld> this looks like it might be 6418995 htable_scan() never completes
[20:45:19] <nrubsig> hrlmec: userland or kernel thread ?
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[20:46:25] <WickedWicky> Uncle_Muscle: Sparc?
[20:46:26] <hrlmec> Not sure.
[20:46:42] <WickedWicky> the card works fine under i386/amd64
[20:46:51] <hrlmec> I don't know how to tell, unfortunately. :(
[20:46:56] <nrubsig> hrlmec: kernel threads cannot be killed, they can only terminate if they want.
[20:47:00] <Uncle_Muscle> WickedWicky:  No, this is an x86 machine
[20:47:05] <hrlmec> hmmm
[20:47:06] <WickedWicky> I use the card
[20:47:17] <sommerfeld> it's obviously (to me at least) an x86 system because the offsets in the stack trace aren't all multiples of 4
[20:47:30] <WickedWicky> pci bus 0x0004 cardnum 0x07 function 0x00: vendor 0x1095 device 0x3512 Silicon Image, Inc. SiI 3512 [SATALink/SATARaid] Serial ATA Controller
[20:47:33] <Uncle_Muscle> I've tried the card in other machines to the same result, it works fine in Linux and FreeBSD (as a test)
[20:47:47] * nrubsig pokes stevel with a stick...
[20:47:54] <Uncle_Muscle> oh, i believe you ;)  i just don't know what to do to overcome it
[20:47:57] <Uncle_Muscle> maybe a grub argument
[20:48:00] <WickedWicky> Uncle_Muscle: is it detected as ATA controller or SATA controller/
[20:48:05] <WickedWicky> err
[20:48:12] <WickedWicky> ATA or RAID
[20:48:18] <Uncle_Muscle> well, it never gets beyond "configuring /dev"
[20:48:41] <Uncle_Muscle> so I don't have access to the userland
[20:48:42] <hrlmec> 3 ffffffff8152a000  1b    0    0  60  yes    no t-104843 fffffe8000983c80 sched
[20:49:04] <hrlmec> mdb -k...::cpuinfo -v  shows that for cpu 3
[20:49:28] <WickedWicky> hm... I used the card under SXCE68/SXCE69 and SXCE70, no problems
[20:50:12] <sommerfeld> hrlmec: ok,  it looks like this is the result of some degree of bad luck.
[20:50:35] <hrlmec> Yea...I rebooted the server again last night, thinking it might be a fluke...but it's happening again today.
[20:50:42] <Uncle_Muscle> what version of BIOS is your controller using?
[20:51:12] <WickedWicky> I have no idea, I would have to reboot to see
[20:51:13] <sommerfeld> hrlmec: what OS version are you running?
[20:51:22] <hrlmec> Sol10 U3
[20:51:22] <sommerfeld> (uname -a output will help)
[20:51:29] <hrlmec> 11-06 release
[20:51:42] <Uncle_Muscle> oh, well, i appreciate you confirming it works
[20:51:45] <hrlmec> 118855-36
[20:51:46] <Uncle_Muscle> i'll just keep prying at it
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[20:53:52] <sommerfeld> hrlmec: looks like there's a patch out with a fix to 6418995 --   125101-10
[20:54:06] <hrlmec> ahhhh....sweet!
[20:55:04] <hrlmec> Looks like all the servers get patched this weekend.
[20:55:19] <Uncle_Muscle> we patched our SPARC-based workstations and servers last night
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[20:59:03] <Berny> anyone tried win4solaris yet?
[20:59:26] <e^ipi> what are these windows programs that people can't seem to do without?
[20:59:52] <e^ipi> I haven't needed to run win4foo or wine or any such thing in a /long/ time
[20:59:53] <wesolows> e^ipi: minesweeper
[20:59:56] <Berny> personally income tax
[21:00:06] <e^ipi> and I haven't used windows proper in about 8 or 9 years
[21:00:08] <Berny> once a year 8-)
[21:00:38] <Berny> nokia phone browser to get pix from phone via bluetooth twice a year
[21:00:53] <e^ipi> i do my income tax with a pen
[21:00:56] <e^ipi> *shrug*
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[21:01:06] <e^ipi> and the forms revenue canada posts at the post office
[21:01:31] <wesolows> e^ipi: as do I
[21:01:39] <e^ipi> next years will be more complicated because of investments, but not that much more complicated
[21:01:54] <Berny> serious business would be run some windows terminal service to the ssgd server to rpvide access to a some medical encyclopedia, the "rote liste" (german list of available medication and stuff)
[21:02:06] <wesolows> and if it gets complicated enough that I can't, having some fancy software I don't understand won't help either; I'll have an accountant do it
[21:02:34] <wesolows> the correct thing to do for all this stuff is make databases like that accessible to clients on any OS
[21:02:46] <wesolows> either through AJAXy front ends or by having an open protocol
[21:03:46] <Berny> wesolows, e^ipi german tax crap is way to complicated... simple program goes step by step through all shit and asks if that stuff applies to you (did you get to work by car? if yes how many kilometers a day etc etc) tells you the expect amount you get back/have to pay... prints out the 30 or so pages of forms..
[21:04:08] <LeftWing> Sounds like Australia income tax.
[21:04:19] <LeftWing> *Australian
[21:04:40] <wesolows> then if the software is valuable you should see to it that it's made available in a format that works on all platforms, rather than sending the tax software companies the message that it's ok to force people into doing business with microsoft
[21:04:41] <e^ipi> canadian income tax is easy, i guess
[21:04:46] <Berny> wesolows: if you're talking about the medical stuff i totally agree with you, but tell that any of the big pharma companies and earn yourself a laugh
[21:04:49] <oxygene> Berny: german tax crap can be done on a sheet of paper, too - you just don't get the maximum return *shrug* :)
[21:05:03] <wesolows> and while you're at it, your country is a democratic republic so you should tell your legislature that they need to make the tax forms simpler
[21:05:04] <Berny> oxygene: or have to pay back :-)
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[21:05:16] <Berny> wesolows: they did 2 years ago
[21:05:27] <wesolows> anyway...it's not ok to use windows
[21:05:30] <kjetilho> in Norway, you can send a text message to confirm that the tax forms are correct
[21:05:44] <wesolows> if you use windows, you encourage the continued use of windows
[21:05:53] <kjetilho> 99% of all people don't need to make any adjustments
[21:05:57] <wesolows> instead you should just refuse to do business with anyone who tried to force you into it
[21:06:07] <Berny> things where easy when i wasn't married.. i could do the tax stuff on 2 pages and get money back...
[21:07:20] <e^ipi> wesolows: pretty much what i've done so far
[21:07:32] <Berny> despite the religious war... work needs to have them programs one way or the other... so i'd rather burn some spare cycles on a box running solaris and whatever working emulator than putting up and wasting a whole new box
[21:08:38] <g4lt-sb100> Berny, turbotax on a sunpci FTW ;P
[21:08:59] <oxygene> Berny: if you don't require sound for your work, qemu with kernel module might be good enough
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[21:09:57] <Berny> g4lt-sb100: i should think some cycles on one of the dual core opterons should be fine ;-)
[21:10:12] <Berny> oxygene: i'll give that a try...
[21:11:06] <oxygene> Berny: if graphics become a problem, I think qemu's NIC emu is better than the video emu, so rdp (or even just tightvnc) might provide a speed-up (sick as that sounds) - but I didn't try that yet
[21:12:02] <Berny> i'd go for rdp and access that from ssgd
[21:13:08] <oxygene> Berny: oh, and did you try wine already?
[21:14:40] <oxygene> wow.. they finally managed to killed the rote:liste account for their online offer
[21:15:05] <Berny> not really... if possible i'd like to avoid major effort on my side... ;-) if we're talking someting like 100-200$ thats easily paid if it just works
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[21:15:31] <Berny> .oO(i have the rote liste cd here. but no windows to run it :-P)
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[21:16:06] <oxygene> in that case, wait until $500 are warranted and buy another pc including windows license - nothing else will "just work", I'm afraid
[21:17:14] <Berny> .oO(where do i put that box? how do i back it up? can i boot from a read-only image over the net? :-))
[21:18:02] <oxygene> :)
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[21:23:57] <nrubsig> Is half Sun on vacation today again ?
[21:25:56] <nrubsig> Gman: Hi!
[21:25:58] * Gman is!
[21:26:41] <Berny> hi glynn
[21:26:46] <Gman> hey Berny
[21:27:15] <Berny> how's things?
[21:27:26] <Berny> which side of the world are you on today?
[21:27:43] <Gman> Berny, good good, about to start a 5 day trip snow boarding
[21:27:44] <nrubsig> hell
[21:27:50] <Gman> Berny, nz, south island :)
[21:28:27] <Berny> shouldn't summer start on your side soon?
[21:28:34] <Berny> hehe home...
[21:29:09] <Gman> Berny, it's not far away
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[21:30:24] <Berny> guess so... winter is about to start here... least it feels that way
[21:31:42] <g4lt-sb100> wesolows, WRT your windows rant, is that why sunpci isn't going to be opened, thus forcing me to keep using windows because the sunpci itself encourages non-free stuff?
[21:33:06] <g4lt-sb100> or, since my sunpci enforces windows, does that mean I shouldn't do business with sun, the maker of the sunpci board?
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[21:49:15] <alanc> g4lt-sb100: I would imagine SunPCi isn't going to be opened because no one has worked on it in years and they don't want to find someone just to release the source to a dead product
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[21:49:34] <nrubsig> g4lt-sb100: SunPCI ---> trashcan and install VMware on a dedicated machine and get the window via X11
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[21:49:44] <nrubsig> g4lt-sb100: that's a solutino which _works_
[21:49:53] <nrubsig> g4lt-sb100: (unlike the SunPCI junk)
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[21:50:40] <hrlmec> anyone have any idea when the sun x86 quadcores will start hitting the market?
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[21:53:19] <Lusitanian> hello
[21:53:27] <nrubsig> Any victims^H^H^H^H^H^Hvolunteers to sponsor http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do?bug_id=6595183 ?
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[21:53:51] <e^ipi> oh, nrubsig
[21:53:56] <e^ipi> congrats, by the way
[21:54:03] <e^ipi> a bit late, but I haven't seen you since then
[21:54:04] <nrubsig> e^ipi: thanks! :-)
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[21:56:24] <e^ipi> did it integrate as /bin/ksh, or /bin/ksh93
[21:56:31] <e^ipi> i couldn't tell from the docu
[21:57:02] <nrubsig> e^ipi: by defaultit integrates as /usr/bin/ksh93 with the compile-time option to install it has /usr/bin/ksh instead.
[21:57:17] <sommerfeld>   3:57pm  up 12 day(s), 23:03,  31 users,  load average: 2276.59, 975.21, 541.86
[21:57:22] <sommerfeld> and system is still usable
[21:57:26] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o brendang
[21:57:57] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: stop playing Quake on that box! =:-)
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[21:58:27] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: erm, how many CPUs does the machine have ?
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[21:58:39] <mbalmer> dlg?
[21:58:50] <sommerfeld> v890 with 8  dual core cpus
[21:58:55] <nrubsig> groan
[21:59:08] * nrubsig wants to strangle sommerfeld and sneak away with that machine...
[21:59:28] <tsp> sommerfeld: is it a shell server, to have that much load?
[21:59:30] <sommerfeld> (actually, it's a runaway app.  just corralled them on cpu 0 so the other cpus can get work done)
[21:59:44] <tsp> 31 users is alot :)
[22:00:01] <sommerfeld> tsp: it's a shared build server used by developers here
[22:00:09] <tsp> ah
[22:00:20] <sommerfeld> so, "shell server" is a good approximation to what it is..
[22:00:31] <e^ipi> hax proxy
[22:00:53] <e^ipi> obscure your location through clever use of public systems
[22:01:04] <sommerfeld> actually, the load average was holding steady at around 300 before I did the pbinds
[22:02:53] <tsp> I had a load avg of 500 on a single-cpu box, everything died for about 10 minutes :)
[22:02:58] <nrubsig> dmarker: ping!
[22:03:13] <tsp> but amazingly enough the machine came back
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[22:05:43] <sommerfeld> nrubsig: i'd like to see you pick up a V890 single-handed.  actually, I'm not that cruel.
[22:06:07] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: good point.
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[22:07:01] <kjetilho> me and a colleague mounted a Thumper in a rack without removing the drives first
[22:07:25] <kjetilho> he didn't come to work the next day due to back pains ;-)
[22:07:53] <nrubsig> kjetilho: how much does a loaded thumper wheight ?
[22:08:08] <nrubsig> 200kg ?
[22:08:12] <kjetilho> no, not that much
[22:08:27] * nrubsig remebers the story of someone trapped _under_ a NEC box.
[22:08:31] <nrubsig> 2800kg
[22:08:49] <kjetilho> but it's awkward to position it into the rails when you don't have any free hands
[22:08:50] <nrubsig> took half a day to "un-burry" him
[22:08:58] <kjetilho> nrubsig: ugh
[22:08:59] <Bartman007> nrubsig: my car weighs half that...
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[22:12:57] <sommerfeld> thumper is supposedly 48kg including rails & rack kit.  v890 is up to 130kg fully loaded.
[22:14:22] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: did anyone had the idea yet to use a stack of table, chair and books to get a thumper into position and then move it on the rails ?
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[22:16:02] <kjetilho> sommerfeld: that must be without the drives, though
[22:17:10] <sommerfeld> nrubsig: we used a hand-cranked GENIE lift.
[22:18:07] <hrlmec> someone needs to create a server jack
[22:18:41] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: what is a "GENIE lift" ?
[22:19:12] <Bartman007> http://www.genielift.com/ml-series/ml-1-3.asp
[22:19:55] <nrubsig> heh
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[22:20:42] <sommerfeld> a family of devices for use indoors for lifting people and things.
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[22:36:39] <Xtrondo> any1 know where I can find "SUNWogg-vorbis-manpages-0.1.tar.gz" that ogg spec file try to find? or is a bug on spec file?
[22:36:48] <splunk> hey all
[22:37:00] <splunk> anyone use Solaris  format component before?
[22:37:28] <quasi> format component? as in the format commandline?
[22:37:37] <splunk> format -e
[22:37:46] <splunk> trying to fdisk a removable hard disk and its a nightmare
[22:38:08] <splunk> trying to reallocate the slices(Partitions) and it seems everything is at part 2 (Backup)
[22:38:18] <splunk> i need to give p (0) all of the space
[22:39:05] <splunk> part 2 (backup) has cylinders 0-45596  which is 698 gigs (the entire drive) need to put that in part 0
[22:39:16] <splunk> if that makes at all sense
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[22:40:09] <Triskelios> splunk: slice 2 refers to the whole disk, you're not supposed to change it. other slices should overlap
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[22:40:46] <sbahra> Hi
[22:41:10] <e^ipi> what up
[22:41:17] <Triskelios> splunk: it's labelled backup because it's what you use to back up the disk
[22:41:23] <splunk> ok well I fdisked the drive to Sol2 and its active, now I wanted to format the disk....I get format failed  (retry  format without mode selects and Grown defects list
[22:41:41] <sbahra> e^ipi, phailed@SoC. Going to try to work it into a class or something so I don't have to give up $ for food. ;-)
[22:41:49] <sbahra> Either that or going to do 2 jobs, but that might lead to less code.
[22:41:50] <sbahra> You?
[22:42:06] <splunk> Illegal request during format ASC:0x20 AScq: 0x0
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[22:42:21] <splunk> unless I don't have to format hte disk again
[22:42:37] <sommerfeld> generally you don't have to format modern disks
[22:42:47] <e^ipi> i did okay, i'm taking a week off now that i'm not time-constrained, and i'll pick up & try'n get it working & integrated next week
[22:43:06] <PerterB> sounds like you're trying to low level format the disk, which is almost never what you want... just set up the slices with format then create filesystems with newfs or zpool
[22:43:11] <splunk> well it wasnt new, my original problem was ...when i hooked up the disk via usb...it would mount an s0 and s8 ..why I have no idea..s8 was just a mirror of useless data
[22:43:18] <splunk> so I figured I reformat
[22:44:36] <splunk> how would I be able to test the drive to see if its good to go? I killed volmgr srvice
[22:45:43] <splunk> svcadm enable volmgr ?
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[22:57:15] <bigjohnto> what does the following mean ? snmp_procname!public!1!3!5!6!11 its checking for sendmail , i really want to know what the values mean, what their place holders are (nagios)
[23:00:05] <sbahra> e^ipi, cool
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[23:22:23] <bigjohnto> why is it that i have like 7 processes of sendmail running and when i check in the logs, i see that most of them are assigned to spam emails that show they have already been rejected?
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[23:23:20] <chris_d> Can somebody help me configure snmp on OpenSolaris, Build 69?
[23:23:35] <chris_d> I'm trying to set up the snmp client.
[23:23:43] <chris_d> Change the rocommunity and such.
[23:23:59] <chris_d> There are multiple snmpd.conf files, and I don't know which I should be changing.
[23:24:11] <bigjohnto> ps -eaf | grep snmpd
[23:24:18] <chris_d> I also don't know if OpenSolaris is running Sun's snmp or net-snmp.
[23:24:19] <bigjohnto> see where it might be running from
[23:24:20] <bigjohnto> if it is
[23:24:29] <bigjohnto> should be running suns snmp
[23:24:32] <bigjohnto> you will need to disable it
[23:24:35] <bigjohnto> svcadm ....
[23:24:43] <bigjohnto> etc...etc...
[23:25:02] <chris_d> It is Sun's snmp that's running.
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[23:25:08] <chris_d> How can I change that to net-snmp?
[23:25:29] <bigjohnto> one second
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[23:26:00] <bigjohnto> do you got
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[23:26:11] <bigjohnto> "/usr/local/sbin/smpd?
[23:26:19] <bigjohnto> s/smpd/snmp/
[23:26:30] <chris_d> bigjohnto, Nope.
[23:26:37] <bigjohnto> snmpd lol
[23:26:45] <bigjohnto> ok just get an opensource and compile it
[23:26:52] <bigjohnto> disable suns
[23:27:01] <chris_d> Can I just use the package from SunFreeware?
[23:27:06] <jmcp> yes
[23:27:07] <bigjohnto> you can prob just do that my moving snmpdx from the startups
[23:27:13] <bigjohnto> yes you can
[23:27:22] <jmcp> but remember to run "svcadm disable snmpdx" before you do
[23:27:30] <chris_d> Just ran it.
[23:27:31] <chris_d> :)
[23:27:35] <bigjohnto> cool
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[23:27:55] <quasi> s10 comes with net snmp as well
[23:28:58] <chris_d> quasi, Where are the binaries, and how do I add it to svcs?
[23:29:07] <quasi> svc:/application/management/sma and svc:/application/management/seaport
[23:29:15] <quasi> man snmpd
[23:29:19] <elektronkind> seaport isn't needed
[23:29:29] <quasi> true
[23:29:50] <chris_d> OK.
[23:29:53] <elektronkind> chris_d: you'll find the config for snmpd in /etc/sma/snmpd
[23:29:56] <chris_d> That's fixed me up.
[23:29:59] <chris_d> Thanks!
[23:30:14] <elektronkind> drop a net-snmp compatible snmpd.conf in there and you're good to go
[23:31:24] <elektronkind> has anyone tried compiling eclipse 3.3 before on s10 x86?
[23:31:35] <quasi> elektronkind: why bother?
[23:31:43] <elektronkind> does it normally take, like, a millenia to do so?
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[23:32:19] <elektronkind> quasi: I'm investigating an eclipse.org project, so I be needin' the IDE
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[23:33:19] <quasi> elektronkind: I think it usually takes two millenia
[23:33:32] * elektronkind slumps in his chair
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[23:58:25] * nrubsig spamms request-sponsor@
[23:58:43] * jmcp notices nrubsig's spam, and crawls back under his rock
[23:58:44] *** yippi has quit IRC
[23:59:14] <nrubsig> jmcp: wanna sponsor the shell script compiler ?
[23:59:24] <jmcp> no
[23:59:45] <nrubsig> jmcp: wanna sponsor the demo code update (no arc case, stuff just delivered to /usr/demo/ksh/) ?
[23:59:45] <jmcp> come on, nrubsig, I've told you several times that I'm fully occupied with my team's backport
[23:59:50] <jmcp> we haven't finished it yet
[23:59:58] <nrubsig> jmcp: sorry





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