[00:00:17] <Triskelios> jafari: there's a bunch of stuff under svc:/network/nis/
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[00:01:13] <Lusitanian> check out the services with svcs -xv
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[00:02:45] <jafari> what do i make sure is online
[00:03:08] <jafari> svcs -xv
[00:03:16] <jafari> any argumetns
[00:03:33] <Triskelios> jafari: no, that will list any failed services
[00:03:55] <jafari> oh
[00:04:09] <jafari> this is happening
[00:04:14] <jafari> on the client side
[00:04:24] <jafari> i get this error when i login with the nis user
[00:04:25] <jafari> Could not chdir to home directory /export/home/pager: No such file or directory
[00:04:26] <Lusitanian> did any service fail came up?
[00:04:43] <Triskelios> jafari: that's not a NIS problem, that's autofs or NFS
[00:04:44] <jafari> all i see is
[00:04:45] <jafari> svc:/application/print/server:default (LP print server)
[00:04:58] <jafari> and svc:/system/webconsole:console (java web console)
[00:05:01] <Lusitanian> thats probably because autofs isnt running or some other nfs problem be it server or client side?
[00:05:16] <Triskelios> jafari: well fix or disable those services
[00:05:21] <jafari> i think its the server side
[00:05:48] <jafari> why do i change /export/home to /home /etc/vfstab
[00:05:52] <Lusitanian> check out autofs with something like svcs -a | grep autofs
[00:06:05] <Lusitanian> try the same also for nfs
[00:06:20] <jafari> online 17:44:54 svc:/system/filesystem/autofs:default
[00:06:36] <Lusitanian> what about nfs?
[00:06:45] <Lusitanian> svcs -a | grep nfs
[00:06:51] <jafari> its ahowing a bunch of disable
[00:07:00] <jafari> showing
[00:07:06] <Triskelios> jafari: that's probably the problem
[00:07:16] <Lusitanian> svcadm enable nfs/server
[00:07:29] <Lusitanian> did they became online?
[00:07:40] <jafari> only one
[00:07:52] <Lusitanian> (although im not sure if that's needed, im kinda rusty on solaris lately) :|
[00:07:53] <jafari> oh no
[00:07:56] <jafari> nothing did
[00:07:57] <jafari> sorry
[00:08:19] <Lusitanian> check out with svcs -xv now, anything new?
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[00:08:47] <jafari> see http://pastebin.com/m28f1bede
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[00:09:17] <jafari> svc:/network/nfs/nlockmgr:default (NFS lock manager)
[00:09:18] <jafari> State: disabled since Sat Aug 25 17:44:30 2007
[00:09:18] <jafari> Reason: Disabled by an administrator.
[00:09:34] <Triskelios> enable that
[00:09:34] <jafari> i dont get it
[00:09:54] <Triskelios> I don't understand how it got disabled
[00:10:29] <Triskelios> is this on the the client or server now?
[00:10:34] <jafari> server side
[00:10:35] <Pietro_S> Triskelios: is there any way how to define some variable from pkgtool command line?
[00:10:49] <Lusitanian> tail /etc/svc/volatile/network-nfs-server:default.log ?
[00:10:55] <jafari> i have been following thi doc
[00:10:57] <jafari> http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/content/submitted/configure_nis.html
[00:11:01] <Triskelios> Pietro_S: I use CC=cc CXX=CC PATH=/opt/jdsbld/bin:$PATH pkgtool build --download $@
[00:11:02] <jafari> it didnt tell me to enable nfs
[00:11:33] <Triskelios> jafari: are you not using NFS then? local disks?
[00:11:36] <jafari> but i know i need nfs for my home dir to be mounted onn other systems
[00:11:53] <jafari> NIs and autofs
[00:11:56] <Lusitanian> jafari:.  anything relevant on the log?
[00:12:37] <jafari> do i need NFS
[00:12:44] <jafari> i think i do
[00:12:47] <Pietro_S> Triskelios: thanks, I always forget about shell basics when I need them ;-)
[00:12:53] <jafari> cause on the client side it say NFS fails
[00:13:01] <jafari> im lost now
[00:13:08] <jafari> this was working before
[00:13:14] <Triskelios> jafari: I don't understand how you had it set up
[00:13:32] <jafari> the same way the doc showed me here http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/content/submitted/configure_nis.html
[00:13:33] <Triskelios> your example uses NFS
[00:13:58] <jafari> all of a sudden when my power went out in the house
[00:14:02] <jafari> it stopped working
[00:14:10] <Lusitanian> maybe stale nfs?
[00:14:18] <Lusitanian> disable everything on the server and client
[00:14:22] <Lusitanian> and start all over again
[00:14:59] <jafari> why do i have to change /export/home too /home in /etc/vfstab
[00:15:18] <jafari> if /export/home i need mounted across other systems
[00:15:40] <Lusitanian> you shouldnt
[00:15:51] <jafari> really
[00:16:01] <Lusitanian> autofs is defined in /etc/auto* something
[00:16:03] <Lusitanian> i guess
[00:16:41] <jafari> i have /home auto_home -browse
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[00:16:49] <jafari> in /etc/auto_master
[00:17:02] <jafari> should i change it to /export/home
[00:17:31] <Lusitanian> that means autofs is using /home (which as far as i remember always used to) to mount user home directories, and you shouldnt mount any filesystem bellow that
[00:18:12] <jafari> i changed it to /export/home auto_home -browse
[00:18:23] <jafari> bash-3.00# automount -v
[00:18:24] <jafari> automount: /export/home: already mounted
[00:18:24] <jafari> automount: no mounts
[00:18:24] <jafari> automount: /home unmounted
[00:18:48] <Triskelios> jafari: don't do that
[00:18:59] <Triskelios> auto_home is for /home
[00:19:00] <jafari> what should i do than
[00:19:07] <jafari> share -F nfs -o rw,nosuid -d "homedirs" /export/home
[00:19:35] <jafari> so i need to change it back to /home
[00:19:41] <jafari> in auto_master
[00:19:42] <Triskelios> nooo
[00:19:52] <Triskelios> you share /export/home on the server
[00:19:57] <jafari> ok
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[00:20:43] <jafari> in auto_master i have this now
[00:20:49] <jafari> , /home auto_home -browse
[00:21:15] <jafari> in auto_home i have this now * benz.wearless.net:/export/home/&
[00:21:50] <Triskelios> is /net enabled in auto_master?
[00:21:57] <Triskelios> that is a good way to test if NFS is working
[00:22:28] <jafari> yeah /net is enabled
[00:22:38] <jafari> in /etc/dfs/dfstab
[00:22:47] <jafari> i have this share -F nfs -o rw,nosuid -d "homedirs" /export/home
[00:22:56] <Triskelios> that looks fine
[00:22:58] <jafari> does that share command get exec at boot time
[00:23:03] <Triskelios> try /net/benz.wearless.net/export/home/ on the client
[00:23:12] <Triskelios> yes if it's in dfstab it is run at boot
[00:23:17] <jafari> ok
[00:23:20] <jafari> coolio
[00:24:49] <jafari> ok nis is working now on the client side
[00:25:03] <jafari> how can i assure the server side stay working correctly
[00:25:10] <jafari> even if i get an outage agaiun
[00:25:21] <jafari> what services need to be on
[00:25:23] <Triskelios> um just so you know NIS never stopped working
[00:25:31] <jafari> hmmm
[00:25:32] <Triskelios> NFS was the only issue
[00:25:49] <jafari> and this was done by using the share commandf
[00:26:15] <jafari> lets see than im going to reboot the master nis server
[00:26:22] <jafari> and see it this happens again
[00:27:51] <jafari> thanks for you guys help i really appreciate it
[00:27:57] <jafari> you guys rule :)
[00:29:21] <Triskelios> it might help to do some reading for background instead of following canned instructions, so you actually learn what's going on
[00:32:10] <jafari> ok
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[01:05:39] <Triskelios> has anyone used the pcata driver?
[01:06:00] <Triskelios> for ATA devices in PCMCIA slots - e.g. CF cards
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[01:19:30] <Pietro_S> Triskelios: when program needs right setting of ./configure --prefic="" and other stuff, but I want to build it under two separate dirs (/opt/games and /usr/ , and the /opt build I want to use for svr4 packages : Do you have any better idea then set SUNW_BaseDir and use it in --prefix and then destroy that prefix (mv is candidate) in PKG_BUILD_ROOT ?
[01:24:42] <Triskelios> not sure what you mean. shouldn't they be two different spec files?
[01:25:42] <Pietro_S> that's also solution ;-), but on 99% that spec files would be different
[01:26:31] <Triskelios> well, there's the base-specs
[01:26:34] <Pietro_S> would be same
[01:27:30] <Pietro_S> I'm a bit tired (1:25am here) ... I think I will move it for tomorrow
[01:27:41] <Triskelios> good idea
[01:28:37] <Pietro_S> good night | day | anything else :-)
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[01:59:42] <g4lt-sb100> is uploading photos from a USB camera pretty trivial in NV55b?
[02:00:00] <flyingparchment> depends on the camera
[02:00:12] <flyingparchment> if you're lucky, it'll present itself as a USB mass storage device, in which case it's trivial
[02:00:22] <g4lt-sb100> polaroid cheapo
[02:00:52] <flyingparchment> try connecting it and see if the flash shows up as a drive
[02:01:53] <g4lt-sb100> yeah, the best way to find out is try :/
[02:02:32] <flyingparchment> if that fails, buy a $10 USB SD/CF card reader
[02:02:37] <flyingparchment> (i'm informed these work perfectly in solaris)
[02:02:58] <richlowe> they show up as USB storage, so it should, yeah.
[02:02:59] <g4lt-sb100> w00t, it worketh
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[02:03:03] <richlowe> unless you plug 'em into a type7 keyboard.
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[02:04:06] <g4lt-sb100> type 7's have more than one port?
[02:04:15] <g4lt-sb100> this intrigues me...
[02:04:26] <richlowe> type7's have one underneath for the mouse, and two on the back
[02:04:31] <richlowe> except if you plug USB storage into 'em, they disappear.
[02:04:37] <richlowe> (keyboard, storage, and all)
[02:04:58] <g4lt-sb100> that's pretty lame.  presumably there's going to be a patch for it eventually?
[02:04:59] <flyingparchment> that's a rather strange limitation, since mass storage is one of things you'd probably most likely to connect to it
[02:05:20] <richlowe> flyingparchment: bug, not limitation.
[02:05:35] <richlowe> though I still don't quite get how, or why.
[02:05:39] <flyingparchment> it's probably a feature, did you get the type 7 developer's edition by mistake?
[02:05:47] <richlowe> haha
[02:07:02] <flyingparchment> found someone else on ubuntu-users with the same soundcard problem as me.  apparently his worked fine until he installed some patch.  figures ;-)
[02:07:18] <oninoshiko> it might have to do with having enough power... "unpowered" usb hubs are technically outside of the usb spec (im not sure if this is still true with usb 2)
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[03:55:29] <Red_Cloud> I want to remove a package gok that I installed from blastwave.com.  I give the command "pkgrm CSWgok" and get the return "pkgrm: ERROR: no package associated with <CSWgok>"  So I try "pkgrm gok" and get the return ""pkgrm: ERROR: no package associated with <gok>".  What am I doing wrong?
[04:00:19] <Red_Cloud> OK I see that the package is SUNWgnome-ally-gok.
[04:00:43] <Gman> that's not a blastwave package
[04:00:50] <Red_Cloud> That package REALLY interferes with my install of firefox.
[04:01:12] <Red_Cloud> Gman that is what I just discovered.  Have you found that it interferes with firefox?
[04:01:24] <Gman> interferes in what way'?
[04:01:51] <Gman> blastwave packages install into /opt/csw
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[04:02:44] <Tempt> You should be able to turn the on screen keyboard off along with everything else in the gnome preferences
[04:02:49] <Tempt> otherwise rm -rf ~/.gnome
[04:02:54] <Tempt> and try again.
[04:02:54] <Red_Cloud> Gman whenever i try to open firefox (after configuring gok) the dialogue box for resumption of the previous firefox session will not fully open and after several moments closes without starting firefox
[04:03:51] <Red_Cloud> Tempt I really do not like gnome.  And the onscreen keyboard is REALLY a bloated piece of stuff.
[04:04:02] <Tempt> Nobody makes you use GNOME.
[04:04:21] <Red_Cloud> Tempt I do not use gnome knowingly
[04:04:23] <Tempt> Personally, I'd rather use Windows XP than try to get any work done at a GNOME session.
[04:04:29] <Gman> Red_Cloud, try making sure the preferences > assistive technology check box is off
[04:04:40] <Tempt> Hence, there are plenty of other desktop environments and window managers out there.
[04:04:46] <Red_Cloud> Gman I will give that a try
[04:04:59] <Gman> Red_Cloud, you may need to log out and in again
[04:05:56] <Gman> no matter how bloated you think gok is, it's *massively* helpful for those people with disabilities who would be lost without it
[04:07:12] <Tempt> The thing is, an on-screen-keyboard shouldn't need to be bloated. It shouldn't require great whacking resources. They did this on the original palm pilot.
[04:07:52] <Tempt> There are other on screen keyboards around for X and they work fine without needing much in the way of CPU or RAM.
[04:09:28] <Gman> possibly more a result of the accessibility layer underneath
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[04:10:30] <Tempt> The *huge* accessibility layer. Or, *both* the huge accessibility layers.
[04:10:34] <sartek> sxce works on ultra 5 ?
[04:11:11] <Tempt> Bonobo accessibility support initialized
[04:11:11] <Tempt> GTK Accessibility Module initialized
[04:11:14] <Tempt> Baaaah
[04:11:18] <Tempt> sartek: Sure.
[04:11:19] <jpdrawneek> sartek: yes
[04:11:21] <Gman> they are more or less the same thing
[04:11:26] <sartek> thx
[04:11:43] <Gman> it's the corba/bonobo layer that's the slow bit
[04:12:05] <Tempt> Hmm, there must be a way of disabling the whole subsystem.
[04:12:22] <Gman> sure, you just turn off accessibility
[04:12:39] <Tempt> Naah, even with it turned off you still get the delay on application load
[04:12:42] <Gman> through gconf/gconftool-2/gconf-edit
[04:12:43] <Tempt> and the silly messages
[04:12:47] <Gman> you shouldn't do
[04:12:58] <Tempt> I'll take another look.
[04:13:57] <Gman> check /desktop/gnome/interface i think
[04:14:43] <Tempt> already turned off
[04:15:25] <Tempt> aaah, don't spend time on it, Gman.
[04:15:53] <Tempt> I'm not about to convert to gnome even if they annoying bugs are fixed.
[04:16:12] <Triskelios> gnome-at-properties seems to do it fine for me
[04:17:39] <Tempt> Triskelios: Hey, that fixed it.
[04:17:44] <Tempt> Triskelios: Thanks!
[04:20:10] <Red_Cloud> Gman I have not been able to find the preferences > assistive technology check box.  The tab choices in the preferences window are Appearance, Keyboards, Action, Feedbach,
[04:20:18] <Red_Cloud> Access Methods, and Prediction
[04:20:45] * Gman has a 'Enable assistive technologies' checkbox
[04:20:46] <Chipdancer> hi guys
[04:20:57] <Chipdancer> I have a very weird problem that I've not been able to resolve
[04:20:58] <Gman> but maybe you're using an older version
[04:21:17] <Chipdancer> I cannot use 'su' to execute a new shell - even from root to root
[04:21:22] <Chipdancer> http://pastebin.com/m3b7f0bbe
[04:21:43] <Chipdancer> that pastebin has a demonstration of the problem with debugging provided by ppriv
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[04:23:10] <Red_Cloud> Gman do not find Enable Assistive technologies checkbox anywhere under the preferences window tabs
[04:23:46] <Gman> Red_Cloud, hrm, is there a general accessibility preference dialog?
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[04:24:45] <Red_Cloud> Gman no
[04:25:24] <Triskelios> Red_Cloud: gnome-at-properties ?
[04:26:16] <Red_Cloud> Gman is not enables.  Thanks Triskelios
[04:29:24] <Tempt> Triskelios has it all worked out. Gold.
[04:30:03] <Gman> the accessibility stuff has changed quite a bit between solaris 10 and what's currently in there
[04:30:48] <Teknix> I have a thumper serving out nfs to several linux clients.  The linux clients are now giving "can't read superblock" errors when trying to mount because the thumper thinks they're still mounted.  The clients have been rebooted and still exhibit the problem.  Is there a way to forcefully disconnect those mounts on the server without rebooting?
[04:32:10] <Tempt> "Can't read superblock" shouldn't turn up for *nfs* mounts.
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[04:32:29] <Teknix> yes well, this is linux nfs we're talking about
[04:34:39] <Tempt> Hmm, good point.
[04:35:02] <Tempt> Solaris won't care if it thinks a client has already mounted, it'll just go ahead without complaining.
[04:35:06] <Teknix> this happened once before and I solved it by making sure there were no processes still keeping those mounts open, but that hasn't worked in this case
[04:35:16] <Tempt> So it isn't likely to be Solaris "keeping mounts open".
[04:35:27] <Tempt> It'll be clientside.
[04:35:30] <Teknix> showmount -a on the thumper shows that the clients in question are mounting it
[04:35:36] <Triskelios> you can always unshare the directories...
[04:35:37] <Teknix> even after a reboot
[04:35:40] <Teknix> i tried unsharing the dirs
[04:36:01] <Tempt> Yeah, nfsmounts are kept across reboots.
[04:37:05] <Chipdancer> can anybody tell me what the service svc:/system/basicreg:default is for?
[04:37:09] <Tempt> Doesn't matter though, it should be fine. Try mounting by hand on the client.
[04:37:49] <Teknix> Tempt: yeah, i had tried that too.. it gives the same superblock error
[04:38:39] <Tempt> pastebin it
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[04:45:21] <Teknix> i might have figured out what's wrong with it
[04:45:41] <Tempt> Linux not working out that it's meant to be nfs?
[04:46:44] <Teknix> appears to be ipfilter related
[04:47:09] <Teknix> it had started when I flushed the ipfilter ruleset and reloaded it on the thumper, although the config hadn't changed
[04:48:03] <Triskelios> Chipdancer: it's for delaying your boot process with Java, I think
[04:48:18] <Chipdancer> Triskelios: ahh, unlikely to be interfereing here then
[04:51:39] <Triskelios> Chipdancer: I was being sarcastic (although that is an accurate description of what happens). it runs sconadm for updates (only makes sense on S10)
[04:52:28] <Chipdancer> Triskelios: either way, doesn't affect this system :)
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[05:44:13] <Triskelios> yay, pcata works, I can totally swap on CF cards now
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[05:48:22] <sponix> aye
[05:54:37] <Tempt> Triskelios: w00t?
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[06:36:46] <FunkyELF> does opensolaris support AMD Thunderbird processors?
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[07:12:20] <oninoshiko> i was thinking about snapshots and clones in zfs... and wondered what happens if i clone a fs, then snapshot it, then promote the clone? where is the snapshot? (i haven't actually tried this yet)
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[07:24:30] <jbk> hello
[07:24:56] <oninoshiko> hi jbk
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[08:35:42] <coraline> http://www.article-5.org/mod/choice/view.php?id=61
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[08:49:07] <andyshack> hgey folks, ive got a 220r thats been my trusted dns although its just eaten its 3rd power supply, is there something that i may wish to look into before i deem it nasty ? its on an emc distributed 3 phase power board.
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[09:00:59] <e^ipi> haha, stupid cat got in to the bathroom cupboard, now I have to clean up shredded toilet paper all over the house
[09:02:35] <oninoshiko> whos stupid, the cat had fun, your cleaning it up
[09:03:59] * cast chuckles
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[09:12:40] <e^ipi> meh, it's not that huge of a mess
[09:12:55] <e^ipi> and she enjoyed herself, so whatever
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[09:15:34] <WickedWicky> b00
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[10:26:03] <Pietro_S> How could  monitor SFE building proccess? It output to log, but when I try tail -f that log I read only same thing which is on my terminal running pkgtool?
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[10:35:46] <e^ipi> I just love it when I find a coffee that's so bad I feel the need to disassemble all my brewing equipment & deep clean it to flush out any remnants of it's existence
[10:36:54] <g4lt-sb100> ahh, folgers
[10:37:13] <e^ipi> no, this is a starbucks blend
[10:37:43] <e^ipi> which are usually pretty inconsistent... a couple of their blends are really good, a few are just terrible
[10:37:49] <g4lt-sb100> ahh, much worse.  all the bad offolgers at sven times the price
[10:38:34] <e^ipi> so the stereotype goes, yes... in reality, there's a few of their coffees that are decent
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[10:39:00] <g4lt-sb100> my advice, get folgers, you have the same shitty coffeee and keep the extra cash
[10:39:14] <e^ipi> i don't pay a dime for starbucks beans
[10:39:17] <e^ipi> they just give them to me
[10:39:32] <g4lt-sb100> you still get ripped off
[10:43:11] <LeftWing> haha
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[10:52:47] <Tempt> The worst coffee I've ever had was some local outfit's "fair trade" blend.
[10:53:02] <Tempt> Soaked the portafilters in espresso cleaner for hours to get rid of the smell.
[10:53:11] <Tempt> "fair trade" from an old tire factory, perhaps.
[10:53:19] <e^ipi> d.d
[10:53:23] <e^ipi> heh, i should say
[10:54:55] <e^ipi> this was some chiapas, mexico garbage that stunk like stale folgers
[10:55:04] <Tempt> I should find the pictures I took last time I left a camera near my machine.
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[10:55:22] <Tempt> There's a picture somewhere of a measuring cylinder with about 5mL of coffee and 25mL of crema
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[10:57:27] <Fish-> hello
[10:57:44] <Tempt> 'ello.
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[11:16:40] <james12> Hey..
[11:16:49] <james12> I downloaded a beta version of openoffice
[11:17:01] <james12> How do I install it on opensolaris.
[11:17:02] <Tempt> heh.
[11:17:36] <james12> Do i need to manually copy the reloc contents or is there any command to do that
[11:18:09] <Tempt> What format did you get it in?
[11:18:15] <Tempt> .pkg?
[11:18:17] <james12> tar.gz
[11:18:19] <james12> no
[11:18:25] <james12> I extracted it
[11:18:33] <Tempt> Do they look like SysV packages?
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[11:18:51] <james12> Ah.. I don`t know
[11:19:02] <Tempt> pkgadd -d .
[11:19:11] <Tempt> when you're in the directory you untarred into
[11:20:55] <james12> thanks..
[11:21:16] <james12> how to install mplayer other than from the source any other option
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[11:23:23] <james12> Tempt: you there ?
[11:24:05] <james12> anyway to install without having to give y for each package
[11:25:48] <james12> hello!
[11:28:43] <e^ipi> james12: /bin/yes
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[11:30:57] <james12> e^ipi: can vlc be installed in opensolaris ? which
[11:31:17] <moazamraja> james12: www.blastwave.org
[11:31:26] <moazamraja> i'm going to sleep
[11:31:27] <moazamraja> night all
[11:31:53] <james12> also I unable to get sound working
[11:31:53] <e^ipi> seeing as how VLC advertises itself as a media player for "windows, OSX, linux, solaris and others", I assume the answer to that question is yes
[11:32:01] <e^ipi> just a guess though
[11:32:49] <james12> I use opensolaris on a lenovo 3000 N100 laptop
[11:33:02] <james12> no luck with open sound
[11:33:29] <e^ipi> sorry about the condescending tone, but you /are/ on the internet, and the internet /does/ have google
[11:33:43] <james12> tried
[11:33:57] <james12> no luck..people says it works with opensound
[11:34:08] <james12> but I am unable to get it working
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[11:37:20] <boyd> Tempt: ping
[11:40:20] <Tempt> pong
[11:40:36] <boyd> Tempt: You
[11:40:39] <boyd> You'll like this
[11:40:52] <boyd> I had to un-power-cable my 250s
[11:40:57] <Tempt> OH NOES
[11:41:16] <Tempt> So, tell the story, you had to depower your 250s ...
[11:41:31] <boyd> We had a power outage and when it came back it seems the total drain for power on too out the circuit
[11:41:33] <boyd> took
[11:41:48] <Tempt> Oh, popped a breaker?
[11:41:48] <boyd> And this house only has 1 light and 2 power ccts
[11:41:51] <boyd> yes
[11:41:56] <Tempt> How much stuff did you have powered up?
[11:42:00] <boyd> And it went again every time I powered the rack
[11:42:08] <boyd> Not that much.. the 250's were off
[11:42:17] <Tempt> This is why power sequencers were invented.
[11:42:23] <boyd> but they must have a transient draw when the power's applied
[11:42:25] <Tempt> Fire up each item one by one.
[11:42:32] <boyd> Yesh, that's what I'm doing
[11:42:46] <boyd> but the outage and return of power were while I was out
[11:42:48] <Tempt> Yeah, the e250s fire up their supplies as soon as power is applied.
[11:43:01] <boyd> and that's when I need it to come up without me
[11:43:14] <boyd> Strangely I don'
[11:43:25] <boyd> Strangely I don't have a power sequencer here at home
[11:43:40] <boyd> (unless you count me)
[11:43:47] <Tempt> Aah, you need more infrastructure,  or perhaps just a consolidation project.
[11:44:00] <boyd> mmmm... consolidation.
[11:44:19] <Tempt> Mmm, large SPARC machine of doom ;)
[11:44:24] <boyd> Actually, I have 3 boxes that I could consolidate onto one PC at the moment
[11:44:45] <boyd> including my gateway/webserver that's a PII 333MHz with 128MB RAM
[11:45:01] <Tempt> Haha, well, you could replace that with a T105
[11:45:08] <Tempt> that's only 80 watts
[11:45:34] <boyd> :) I could replace it with a SLUG
[11:45:44] <boyd> ... or a tiny zone
[11:45:49] <Tempt> (or replace it with a router and move web elsewhere)
[11:46:08] <boyd> Oh, there's a router too, it's more an app-level gateway
[11:46:19] <Tempt> Aah. Zone it.
[11:46:23] <Tempt> Maybe buy that 4800?
[11:46:25] <boyd> That's what I'm thinking
[11:46:38] <boyd> I thin the 2800 would be overkill... esp with zero RAM
[11:46:43] <boyd> 4800
[11:46:45] <boyd> and zero disks
[11:46:52] <Tempt> Wait until the next V880 arrives?
[11:46:58] <boyd> Might do that
[11:47:09] <Tempt> If there's another one at the same price I'll offer you the same deal I offered Chris:
[11:47:14] <Tempt> Buy it
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[11:47:25] <Tempt> If you don't want to run it, I'll buy it from you sans shipping
[11:47:29] <boyd> What do you think? I'm guessing that SPARC boxes are cheaper than comparable x86 gear on eBay
[11:47:32] <Tempt> So the most you have to lose is the shipping cost.
[11:48:03] * boyd imagines Tempt with 3(!) 880s
[11:48:14] <Tempt> I've only got one at the moment.
[11:48:21] <Tempt> This would be a second.
[11:48:25] <boyd> Yes, but +mine and +chris :)
[11:48:41] <Tempt> Haha, two would be enough.
[11:48:48] <boyd> :)
[11:48:53] <Tempt> I wouldn't mind having a spare parts machine in case of hassles.
[11:49:05] <boyd> Fair enough
[11:49:10] <Tempt> Also, I want to rice up an 880.
[11:49:19] <dlg> fluros?
[11:49:20] <boyd> Hehe... ginna run Gentoo on it? :)
[11:49:21] <dlg> blue leds?
[11:49:29] <Tempt> Redo the case in stainless steel and ferrari-red paint.
[11:50:11] <Tempt> Haha, somehow I don't think even Gentoo will run on a fireplane machine.
[11:50:18] * boyd has a part that thinks he should just get something with a Socket AM2 and then he gets xen HVM
[11:50:43] <Tempt> Nah, you need at least one decent SPARC machine.
[11:50:52] * dlg agree
[11:50:55] <dlg> everyone needs a sparc
[11:50:56] <Tempt> Binary compatibility and you need a decent host for building binaries.
[11:51:03] <boyd> I know, but I have 5 already
[11:51:08] <dlg> so you know what a real computer is supposed to feel like
[11:51:45] <Tempt> What about a 4500 or an E450?
[11:51:45] <boyd> And the only sparc alternative for virtualisation is Niagara... which is out of my range by a freakin' long way
[11:52:02] <dlg> e450 has no lom
[11:52:19] <Tempt> Hmm, you could always get a p510 and run LPARs. That's still UNIX and has virtualisation.
[11:52:46] <mbalmer> dlg, the e250 has a lom and the e450 not?  strange
[11:52:56] <dlg> mbalmer: yeah, its silly
[11:52:58] <Tempt> Yeah, it was always a funny thing.
[11:53:03] <boyd> No LOM bad..
[11:53:08] <Tempt> E450 has mountains of disk bays though.
[11:53:22] <boyd> mbalmer: That's part of why the 250 sold as well as it did
[11:53:43] <mbalmer> btw, aynone knows where I could (cheap) disks for my E250s ?
[11:53:44] <Tempt> Everyone loved the E250.
[11:53:50] <Tempt> mbalmer: What size?
[11:53:57] <dlg> mbalmer: put sili in it and use sata
[11:54:02] <mbalmer> that is not so important.
[11:54:05] * boyd goes to brush kid's teeth
[11:54:15] <Tempt> Heh.
[11:54:20] <mbalmer> but I have four e250s, but only disks for two of them ;(
[11:54:25] <dlg> mbalmer: do you need to boot off it?
[11:54:26] <Tempt> Grab an LSI card and stuff it with 1Tb disks
[11:54:27] <dlg> ah
[11:54:39] <Tempt> 9Gb disks should be almost free these days
[11:57:05] <Gekkko[PDA]> no
[11:57:07] <Gekkko[PDA]> just free.
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[11:57:20] <Gekkko[PDA]> 40gb should be free >_>
[11:57:54] <Gekkko[PDA]> is there any SPARC laptops?
[11:57:59] <Gekkko[PDA]> that would be amusing.
[11:58:04] <Auralis> there are several
[11:58:05] <dlg> of course there are
[11:58:09] <Tempt> Gekkko[PDA]: Yes, Naturetech and Tadpole
[11:58:22] <Gekkko[PDA]> are they at all useful?
[11:58:34] <Auralis> if you have enough cash
[11:58:40] <boyd> I hear they stop papers blowing away
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[12:00:44] <Gekkko[PDA]> Seems intersting
[12:00:53] <Gekkko[PDA]> I wonder if there's any ARM-based laptops out there
[12:00:55] * Gekkko[PDA] googles
[12:01:06] <Tempt> OMFG google.
[12:01:21] <sickness> boyd: lol
[12:01:31] <Tempt> I wonder how hard it would be to find one of the old Corel NetWinder machines?
[12:01:32] <Auralis> http://www.tadpole.com/products/notebooks/bullfrogdp.asp :)
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[12:02:30] <boyd> Didn't General Dynamics do the F16?
[12:02:41] <Tempt> Well, I've got a POWER machine coming in, so the only thing I need to finish my collection is a Tezro
[12:02:45] <Tempt> boyd: Yep!
[12:02:58] <sickness> omg, I'd like a tezro too =)
[12:03:12] * dlg want an origin
[12:03:16] <Tempt> I'd break someone's kneecaps for a Tezro.
[12:03:18] <Tempt> :)
[12:03:31] <Tempt> Not worth killing for, but certainly worth maiming for.
[12:03:52] <Tempt> Sadly, as SGI's last ever real computer, I'd say the second hand price will stay high as they'll be a collectors item
[12:04:04] <sickness> http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=corel+netwinder&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2 <- if this is the netwinder, it seems pretty ugly to me...
[12:04:06] <Tempt> Ala Qube and Apple Cube and NeXTCube
[12:04:11] <Tempt> What is it with cubes??
[12:04:22] <sickness> cubes are just sexy
[12:04:25] <sickness> like the borg cube :P
[12:04:45] <Tempt> The netwinder was an ARM machine, that's why I mentioned it before.
[12:04:53] <sickness> oh, k
[12:06:10] <boyd> sickness: It's not the borg cube that's sexy, but some of the individual borg...
[12:06:27] <Tempt> Oh, no way, no trekkie talk.
[12:06:35] <sickness> lol, weren't they all male except for the queen? :P
[12:06:36] <boyd> Tempt: OH NOES!
[12:06:39] <sickness> Tempt: agreed.
[12:07:15] <Tempt> I'd rather sit through a non-stop season of Bab5 than two hours of trek.
[12:08:01] * boyd isn't that fussed about the whole trek universe
[12:08:46] <Tempt> Hmmm, so yeah, where are we going to get Tezros from?
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[12:12:40] <Berny> morning
[12:12:53] <Tempt> mornin'
[12:12:57] <Tempt> evenin'
[12:13:05] <Berny> yeah whatever :-)
[12:13:13] <LeftWing> OH NOES.
[12:15:58] <boyd> LeftWing: Don't *you* start
[12:16:07] <LeftWing> boyd: DO NOT WANT?
[12:16:16] <boyd> AArrrghhh!
[12:16:32] <LeftWing> =)
[12:17:14] <Tempt> CAN HAS MORE MACRO FUNS?
[12:17:22] <Berny> .oO(now that i run an oracle db...)
[12:17:35] <Berny> .oO(what am i supposed to do with this thing?)
[12:17:47] <Tempt> Berny: Tune it!
[12:18:01] <LeftWing> Perhaps you could store some... Tabular Data?!
[12:18:02] <Berny> ok, give me a crash course :-P
[12:18:14] <Berny> LeftWing: was thinking about that... :-)
[12:18:21] <Tempt> Adjust your SGA so it doesn't consume 40% of memory?
[12:18:37] <Berny> right what does sga stand for?
[12:19:07] <Berny> so far i just managed to *install* the beast...
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[12:19:49] <Tempt> SGA is the shared memory region that Oracle gobbles up
[12:19:54] <Berny> just to have it seen before when that shiny oracle based new patient data things lands on my box...
[12:19:57] <Tempt> You can find out the sizing by
[12:19:58] <Berny> AH!
[12:20:03] <Tempt> select * from v$sga;
[12:20:05] <Tempt> or
[12:20:08] <Tempt> show parameter sga
[12:21:20] <Berny> hmm 2M fixed size
[12:21:33] <Berny> 188M var size
[12:21:45] <Berny> 415M db buffers
[12:21:47] <Berny> yikes
[12:22:31] <Tempt> Oh, small SGFA
[12:22:33] <Tempt> SGA
[12:23:17] <Berny> small? this is my home box... 2GB ram 8-)
[12:23:54] <Berny> sga_max_size is 584M at the moment
[12:23:57] <Tempt> You can squeeze it down to 180mb
[12:24:19] <Tempt> You need to restart the instance to tune that parameter
[12:24:22] <Tempt> shutdown immediate
[12:24:23] <Berny> that would help on my box :-)
[12:24:24] <Tempt> (set your params)
[12:24:25] <Tempt> startup
[12:24:53] <Berny> right
[12:25:29] <Berny> shutdown complete
[12:25:31] <Tempt> Grab a copy of Hyperic HQ
[12:25:38] <Tempt> and install it, it'll use an Oracle backend.
[12:25:43] <Tempt> That's some load for it.
[12:25:47] <boyd> Tempt: Do you get commission on downloads
[12:25:57] <Tempt> boyd: I wish!
[12:26:07] <Berny> hold on... how do i set that params?
[12:26:23] <Tempt> Berny: You fiddle with it until you work it out :)
[12:26:35] <Berny> obviously not a simple set sga_max_size=256M;
[12:26:45] <Berny> yeah i'll go and rtfm :-)
[12:27:14] <Tempt> alter system set sga_target ...
[12:27:16] <Tempt> (at memory)
[12:28:00] <Berny> nice try...
[12:28:05] <Berny> oracle not available...
[12:28:12] <Berny> shall i startup before? ;-)
[12:28:44] <boyd> Berny: http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?messageID=1437928&tstart=0
[12:28:49] <Tempt> Yes, startup before altering target
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[12:31:38] <Berny> cheers boyd
[12:32:37] <Tempt> alter system set sga_size=8192M;
[12:32:38] * Tempt grins
[12:32:45] <Tempt> sga_target, anyway.
[12:33:06] <Berny> i could do that on the sf4800 easily
[12:33:13] <Berny> not on my poor home box though
[12:35:35] <boyd> You mean you don't have a 4800 at home! I'm shocked!
[12:36:03] <Berny> na too high a power consumption
[12:36:20] <boyd> Ya hear that, Tempt ?
[12:36:21] <Berny> though in winter i sure could heat the flat running that beast 8-)
[12:36:26] <boyd> Lol
[12:36:31] <Berny> though too loud anyway
[12:37:07] <Berny> for the fun of the noise i could take an t1000 home and just save on the energy costs 8-)
[12:37:51] <boyd> But pay extra for the earplugs
[12:38:08] <Berny> i get them for free
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[12:42:05] <Tempt> lala. Get your SGA size set?
[12:42:14] <Berny> yeah
[12:42:19] <Berny> down to 192M
[12:42:26] <Tempt> alter system set sga_max_size=192M scope=spfile;
[12:42:52] <Tempt> Had to fire up a spare instance to check
[12:43:11] <Berny> startup complete... now we're running at ~250MB RSS instead of 650MB
[12:43:30] <Berny> thats much better :-)
[12:43:31] <Tempt> what does your prstat say? Something huuuge?
[12:43:33] <Tempt>     69 oracle     31G   29G    89%   1:28:35 2.9%
[12:44:31] <Berny> nowhere near your size :-P
[12:44:57] <Tempt> I've got a two instances with 1Gb SGAs and 512M on the other
[12:46:05] <Berny> 11696 oracle 313M 208M 59 0 0:00:00 0.2% oracle/7
[12:46:18] <Berny> still an empty db...
[12:46:33] <Tempt> Wouldn't mind one of these: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230165238145&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=013
[12:47:25] <Berny> too small for my hands...
[12:47:54] <Berny> hmm, now find a recipe db to use oracle and let wife do the testing 8-)
[12:48:04] <Tempt> create your own
[12:49:30] <Tempt> Could probably brew something up with ruby/rails
[12:49:30] <Berny> lunch first :-)
[12:49:46] <Berny> one new thing a day is enough :-P
[12:52:32] <boyd> Oracle for recipes.... can you say "overkill"?
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[12:54:29] <WickedWicky> grmbl
[12:54:57] <Berny> overkill
[12:55:03] * Berny can
[12:55:24] <Gekkko[PDA]> hit him!
[12:55:29] <Berny> hey i just wanna toy around with that beast a little before i have to start real work on it :>
[12:55:31] <Gekkko[PDA]> smack some sense into him
[12:55:34] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol
[12:55:45] <WickedWicky> forplay is important
[12:56:12] <Tempt> If you've got Oracle why use anything else?
[12:56:19] <WickedWicky> first be gentle and nice to servers, then molest them till they beg you to stop and do their work
[12:56:20] <Tempt> If I was building a recipe DB I'd use Oracle.
[12:56:37] <Berny> the real work will incluse like 20000 patients with 500.000 records so far to be moved from the old db to the new oracle based beast
[12:56:47] <WickedWicky> if I needed any serious DWH or transactional database I'd use oracle
[12:56:59] <Tempt> Use Oracle for everything.
[12:57:08] <Tempt> None of this mysql shit. None of this CPU hogging Postgres.
[12:57:09] <WickedWicky> great articles on your blog btw Tempt :)
[12:57:26] <Tempt> WickedWicky: Thanks mate. Trying to keep the content flowing
[12:57:32] <Berny> Tempt: blog about your oracle based recipe db :-P
[12:58:36] <Tempt> hah, I'll leave that one for you.
[12:58:46] <Tempt> You can post it on the blog though, it's a shared thing, not just mine.
[12:59:27] <Berny> hehe i just found one that already uses racle
[12:59:37] <Tempt> Sweet, URL?
[13:00:05] <Berny> recipants.pantsblazing.com
[13:01:13] <Tempt> Cool.
[13:01:32] <Berny> anyway lunch first...
[13:01:33] <Berny> laters
[13:01:50] <e^ipi> can anyone think of an even more mundane use for Oracle ?
[13:01:57] <e^ipi> phonebook maybe?
[13:02:05] <Berny> 8-)
[13:02:12] * Berny was thinking about that too
[13:02:16] <Gekkko[PDA]> counting to an indefinite number
[13:02:19] <LeftWing> Storing iTunes metadata?
[13:02:22] <Berny> or movie database
[13:02:38] <Gekkko[PDA]> A database of sock uage.
[13:02:40] <Berny> .oO(including who has my dvds at the moment)
[13:02:44] <Gekkko[PDA]> usage*
[13:03:03] <Tempt> I've seen Oracle used for a phonebook
[13:04:06] <LeftWing> Provided you're not actually paying for it, it's quite cheap. ;P
[13:04:49] <Tempt> Oh, White Pages and Yellow Pages backend on Oracle.
[13:05:06] <LeftWing> Well that's not particularly surprising.
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[13:06:01] <boyd> You mean even with Oracle they have such s#$thouse results at yellow?
[13:06:20] <LeftWing> haha
[13:06:35] * LeftWing can't remember the last time he used a Yellow Pages.
[13:06:42] * boyd starts his weekly sensis joke quota early this week.
[13:06:46] <Tempt> Nah, I'm talking about the main production systems, not the web stuff.
[13:07:04] <Tempt> I have no idea about what runs YP online, but I presume something involving flatfiles and paper tape
[13:07:20] <boyd> I've got another sensis joke: www.yellowpages.com.au
[13:07:30] <boyd> <cymbal crash/>
[13:07:37] <Tempt> Oh, I can beat that - tradingpost.com.au!
[13:07:43] <boyd> Thanks, I'm here all week... try the clams.
[13:07:44] <Gekkko[PDA]> beaten by miles
[13:07:52] <boyd> lol
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[13:13:01] <Tempt> Gekkko[PDA]: Got a SPARC box yet?
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[13:31:36] <boyd> Uh, oh... Joerg is reviving a comment I made in comp.unix.solaris 3 years ago.
[13:32:30] <boyd> http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=de&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&q=solaris+java+saddam&qt_s=Suche
[13:37:38] <quasi> boyd: you're the true visionary with that comment ;)
[13:38:25] <boyd> Hehe
[13:39:48] <Tempt> hmmm
[13:39:53] * Tempt fires up slrn
[13:40:09] <boyd> Even I didn't see quite the lunatics taking over the asylum scenario
[13:40:28] <Tempt> USEnet is the land of lunatics
[13:40:44] <boyd> Along with Sun Marketing
[13:41:11] <Gekkko[PDA]> Tempt: no, and wont for quite some time.
[13:41:21] <Gekkko[PDA]> other things on the priority list.
[13:41:22] <Tempt> Gekkko[PDA]: There's a 220R for $19
[13:41:25] <Gekkko[PDA]> wtf
[13:41:26] <Gekkko[PDA]> where.
[13:41:28] <Tempt> Gekkko[PDA]: Buy it, love it, call it George
[13:41:29] <Gekkko[PDA]> link
[13:41:30] <Tempt> eeeeebay
[13:41:40] <Gekkko[PDA]> direct link, ebay search isn't my friend of late
[13:41:47] <Gekkko[PDA]> gives me 404 errors lol.
[13:41:50] <Tempt> I'm sure you can work out how to use ebay. I'm not searching for you.
[13:42:09] <Gekkko[PDA]> don't tease me >_>!
[13:42:21] <boyd> Man, you know you're really not wanted when ebay 404's you
[13:42:33] <Gekkko[PDA]> 220Rlol
[13:43:01] <Gekkko[PDA]> bah no paypal
[13:43:48] <Tempt> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Sun-ENTERPRISE-220R-ULTRA-SPARC-II-Processor-Server_W0QQitemZ230164867511QQihZ013QQcategoryZ11216QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[13:43:51] <Tempt> Where
[13:43:54] <Tempt> Where's regents park anyway?
[13:44:06] <Gekkko[PDA]> about 30 minutes from me
[13:44:16] <Gekkko[PDA]> it's about 30 minutes from Sydney
[13:44:30] <Gekkko[PDA]> it's where all the warehouses are
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[13:44:37] <Tempt> Sweet
[13:44:40] <Tempt> Buy it then.
[13:44:43] <madhatter> mornin
[13:44:48] <Tempt> Nothing stopping you.
[13:44:53] <Gekkko[PDA]> no paypal
[13:45:01] <Tempt> Don't need paypal
[13:45:07] <quasi> may still contain previous users data
[13:45:11] <Tempt> They say they take paypal, money order, direct deposit ...
[13:45:14] <quasi> goldmine ;)
[13:45:23] <Tempt> Or you don't have a bank account?
[13:45:44] <Tempt> If you're picking up they'll probably take cash anyway.
[13:45:56] <Tempt> I reckon a 220R would be a great first computer.
[13:46:31] <Gekkko[PDA]> Eh I'll think about it
[13:46:38] <boyd> Tempt: for my 4 year old?
[13:46:39] <Stric> unless you're gonna be in the same room ;)
[13:46:42] * Tpenta is using the equivalent of a 220r
[13:46:45] <Tpenta> I have a u60
[13:46:51] <Tpenta> what I'm typing on now
[13:47:11] <boyd> Hell... 4 years old... I gotta get him coding C
[13:47:23] <dlg> heh
[13:47:24] <Tempt> Yeah, or he'll never be a miserable sysadmin.
[13:47:43] <Tempt> If I had a kid I'd do everything to steer them in the opposite direction to our industry.
[13:47:59] <boyd> What's the opposite of IT?
[13:48:02] <Tempt> By the time they're old enough to be in the workforce it will go from shitty to shitty^2
[13:48:10] <boyd> Texas Instruments?
[13:48:13] <Tempt> boyd: Something involving sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll?
[13:48:26] <boyd> Oh, you mean like IT in the old days...
[13:48:33] <Tempt> heh.
[13:48:36] <Tempt> Accountancy?
[13:49:03] <boyd> I'd have to disinherit in that case...
[13:49:16] * boyd grumbles about a freakin' 25 cent transaction
[13:49:17] <Tempt> Legal or medical industries? Both go hand-in-hand and pay well.
[13:49:42] <Tempt> Contract killer?
[13:49:49] <boyd> Now you're talking
[13:50:04] <Tempt> Buy 'em a rifle for their 5th birthday
[13:50:15] <boyd> ... with scope
[13:50:44] <boyd> and say he can have some rounds when he can strip it and hide it in a potplant in 60 seconds
[13:51:59] <Tempt> Excellent!
[13:52:02] <Tempt> That's the spirit.
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[13:54:08] <Gekkko[PDA]> I hope Microsoft never touches Unix again.
[13:54:32] <Tpenta> saw something in the press today. Microsoft is going to start selling their tools for linux
[13:55:10] <SolFreya> Even Vista has unix services :-p
[13:55:16] <quasi> ie-rootkit-linux - spread the "joy"
[13:55:29] <Tempt> Here's another cheapo sparc: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Sun-Ultra-30-Creator-3D-Workstation_W0QQitemZ220143861359QQihZ012QQcategoryZ11216QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[13:55:36] <Tempt> I'm sure someone in QLD could use one.
[13:56:03] <Tempt> Which tool will MS sell for linux, huh?
[13:56:07] * Tpenta wonders why no-one is seeing this as a capitulation/endorsement of linux from microsoft. ie "we aren't going to beat it, so we may as well try to make some money from it"
[13:56:16] <Shinden> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWGHAVnp-mo&mode=related&search=
[13:56:51] <quasi> Tempt: too old for s10, isn't it?
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[13:57:19] <Gekkko[PDA]> what tool are they selling?
[13:57:36] <SolFreya> Unix Services for Linux?
[13:57:41] <Tpenta> no idea, they just announced intent
[13:57:44] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol.
[13:57:45] <boyd> NTFSmount would be .... unlikely.
[13:57:48] <Gekkko[PDA]> intent to destroy
[13:57:57] <Gekkko[PDA]> releaseing their products on Linux _would_ destory it
[13:58:01] <Gekkko[PDA]> releasing*
[13:58:04] <Gekkko[PDA]> destroy*
[13:58:10] <SolFreya> Office 2007 for KDE
[13:58:15] <Tpenta> like i said, see, initial reaction negatrive, why not spin it as a positive recognition for linux
[13:58:16] <Gekkko[PDA]> Rofley.
[13:58:19] <Tpenta> and open source in general
[13:58:29] <boyd> Maybe they're gonna change their stock ticker to "UNIX"
[13:58:44] <Tpenta> well they di xenix
[13:59:00] <Tpenta> and there are still microsoft copyright notices in a lot of tools
[13:59:16] * SolFreya looks forward to Microsoft UNIX Server 2010, with /Documents and Settings, /Unix and /Program Files/ ;)
[13:59:17] <boyd> I'm sure there must be some reason for them not to do it....
[13:59:29] <boyd> Oh, yes... they're not *completely freaking insane*
[14:00:07] <boyd> Sorry, I'm calmer now....
[14:01:56] <palowoda> I was always amuzed at the MS copyright in Xenix on the andvanced program "yes".
[14:02:13] <Tpenta> boilerplate
[14:02:26] <Tempt> You know, MacOS isn't far off that. They have /Applications instead of /Program Files, but still ...
[14:02:43] <Tempt> I'd say there'd be MS copyrights on every part of Xenix.
[14:02:54] <Tpenta> i am sure i recall seeing it in ls
[14:02:58] <boyd> Tempt: I was looking at the same thing re macos
[14:03:19] <palowoda> Those copyrights should be out of the svr4 base altoghter by now.
[14:03:34] <Gekkko[PDA]> Xenix sickens me.
[14:03:49] <Tempt> Why does Xenix sicken you?
[14:03:58] <Gekkko[PDA]> Microsoft sickens me.
[14:04:00] <Tempt> Back when it was around there wasn't exactly a lot of choice for x86 lovers.
[14:04:05] <boyd> Is there any system at all for *removing* those messages? Like when the RCS shows that *zero* lines of code date from the time of Xenix for example?
[14:04:17] <boyd> It's like "I'm still using my grandfather's axe.
[14:04:27] <boyd> but it's had 3 new handles and 2 new heads"
[14:04:39] <Tempt> and still as good as new
[14:05:08] <Tpenta> I'd argue that isnt sufficient boyd, take as an example if it was a GPL bit of code, if all of the original GPL code had eventually been replaced should you be able to remove the gpl copyright? I don't think so
[14:05:12] <Tpenta> derivitive work
[14:05:32] <Tempt> Really, does it matter?
[14:05:37] <mbalmer> nack
[14:05:37] <Tpenta> similar for any licence, eg cddl
[14:05:37] <boyd> Tpenta: That's true for the GPL, but licenses != copyright
[14:05:56] <Tpenta> love or hate M$, they actually have been responsible for some good things as well as the bad
[14:06:07] * Tpenta never saw himself as a M$ apologist (shudder)
[14:06:16] <Tempt> Didja catch today's slashdot article about fingerprinting/watermarking GPL code?
[14:06:21] <boyd> yes
[14:06:25] <mbalmer> if you rewrite the code, you can put under your own copyright and change the license.
[14:06:26] <Tempt> They're beginning to sound like the RIAA or something
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[14:06:38] <Tempt> Given the recent stabs are vmware ...
[14:06:51] <boyd> mbalmer: but if it's incremental changes Tpenta is right re license... but not re copyright AIUI
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[14:07:10] <mbalmer> boyd, I seriously doubt that
[14:07:24] <boyd> mbalmer: which part?
[14:07:43] <mbalmer> that Tpenta is right wrt license
[14:07:55] <boyd> Tempt: There was also the course ruling that the artistic license is a contract, not a copyright licensing instrument.
[14:07:56] * quasi peers at mbalmer - steves evil twin?
[14:08:17] <mbalmer> quasi, but a lot less money ;)
[14:08:47] <quasi> mbalmer: gotta be the good twin then, as evil usually pays well ;)
[14:08:50] <boyd> mbalmer:  ? You take a file that's GPL. change some of it, it's still GPL. 3 years later change the rest. It's still GPL. Same goes for CDDL.
[14:09:00] <Tempt> See, that whole crowd have gone from writing code and caring about software to fighting license wars.
[14:09:08] <Tempt> It's damn hilarious.
[14:09:23] <Tempt> After years of crying about DRM and watermarking they're gearing up to be just the same.
[14:09:55] <quasi> boyd: except if you're the one doing all the changes - then I'd expect you to keep your copyright ... or is gpl even more evil than that?
[14:10:03] <boyd> Tempt: They're simply protecting the rights of the common man. The proletariat deserve badly polished free software and producing slick commercial stuff is the work of imperialist running dogs.
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[14:10:33] <boyd> quasi: yes, you retain copyright. That's a different thing from the license that the code is released under
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[14:11:19] <Tempt> boyd: And they must take revolutionary actions over any capitalist roaders in their midst?
[14:11:30] <mbalmer> see boyd, I contest that.  If I change the complete file, it is my code.
[14:11:30] <boyd> If you don't release under GPL you lose your license to the original code, which the GPL people want to mean that you breached upstream's copyright
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[14:11:45] <quasi> boyd: right
[14:11:56] <boyd> mbalmer: see my comment ^^ to quasi
[14:12:10] <quasi> boyd: which is why I don't contribute to gpl based code
[14:12:22] <Tempt> The GPL is just a dose of crap, anyway.
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[14:12:39] <palowoda> GPL == You morgage your house to protect our ideas.
[14:12:42] <Tempt> Either release under a reasonable free license or keep your software proprietary.
[14:13:12] <mbalmer> there are quite a few examples of GPL code rewritten and put under a BSD license
[14:13:15] <Tempt> I think stallman really wishes GPL = Your ideas belong to the FSF
[14:13:38] <Tempt> It'd be nice if vmware moved to OpenSolaris to get away from licensing hell.
[14:13:51] * quasi still expects sun marketing to be silly enough to drop opensol to do JavaOsGPLed
[14:14:00] <boyd> mbalmer: In using the code that arrives to you under the conditions of the GPL you are intended to be obliged to make your derived works available under the same terms to others (*if* you distribute them, not if it's for in house use). If you don't then your rights to the original code are intended to cease.
[14:14:03] <palowoda> Vmware is going nowhere on Solaris.
[14:14:11] <Tempt> Javalaris
[14:14:29] <mbalmer> boyd, I am not deriving sth, am rewriting.  that is a new original work.
[14:14:49] <Tempt> I can't wait to have a C compiler a /opt/JAVAspro. When that happens, it'll be comical beyond belief.
[14:14:59] <oxygene> mbalmer: and that's what some gpl loonies see differently.. (except when they rewrite gpl incompatible code, of course)
[14:15:10] <boyd> mbalmer: There is nothing wrong with rewriting from scratch sure. But I was talking originally about the situation with all the source that have been passed down from the elders of SVR4
[14:15:15] <mbalmer> oxygene, sure ymmv ;)
[14:15:20] <quasi> mbalmer: if they can prove that you looked at the gpl bits, then you're probably screwed anyway
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[14:16:01] <mbalmer> quasi, I doubt.  but the GPL nazis can still sue me, if they like, then we'll see ;)
[14:16:17] <palowoda> But copyright legal protection doesn't depend on clean room techniques.
[14:16:20] <Tempt> Release your code as public domain just to really annoy them.
[14:16:25] <boyd> ... with a million tiny mods to it... it seems that the copyright of the original (which vests in the original code) would no longer be there.....
[14:16:55] <oxygene> Tempt: in that case, they ask some 10 years old groupie to license it under gpl under his own name
[14:17:07] <oxygene> Tempt: to _really_ annoy them, release under cddl or bsd-with-advertising
[14:17:16] <boyd> Although, here's something... the only thing left that M$ may have actually produced in some of those files may be the line that says "copyright microsoft" but you can't remove it, since it's copyright ms :)
[14:17:18] <mbalmer> I think the CDDL is no better than the GPL.  Basically, it is to long to be understood.  I like the BSD license for it's brevitiy and clarity.
[14:17:21] <LeftWing> Tempt: I would hope that a shift to /opt/sun/spro would be more likely than a shift to /opt/JAVAspro =P
[14:17:34] <oxygene> mbalmer: bsd-l contains too much garbage, too
[14:17:50] <Tempt> JAVAspro on Javalaris (c) JAVA java JAVA java
[14:17:57] * boyd goes back to the drudge
[14:17:59] <mbalmer> depends on which BSD license you base your code.
[14:18:17] <mbalmer> 4-clause, 3-clause, 2-clause or no clause at all.
[14:18:30] <Tempt> I don't mind the advertising clause.
[14:18:33] <Tempt> Credit where credit is due,
[14:18:35] <Tempt> and all that.
[14:18:43] <Tpenta> the point of the length and repetitiveness of CDDL actually does have a reason. Simon Phipps explained this at SOSUG when he vistited. The idea of a truly international license is that if one clause fails due to local restirctions, it is covered by a slightly reworded clause. CDDL was developed to be a truly international license
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[14:19:09] <Tpenta> similar to the development of gplv3
[14:19:11] <Tempt> I'm happy enough with CDDL
[14:19:16] <boyd> Tempt: And you think my kids should go into Law?
[14:19:20] <Tempt> Is that pronounced cuddle?
[14:19:21] <mbalmer> I prefer this one: http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/~checkout~/src/share/misc/license.template?rev=1.2&content-type=text/plain
[14:19:27] <Tpenta> anyway, i hear my bed calling me
[14:19:33] <Tempt> boyd: Only the ambulance-chasing profiteering mob-lawyer variety.
[14:19:35] <Tpenta> gnite folks
[14:19:40] <LeftWing> Night, Tpenta.
[14:19:54] <boyd> night alan
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[14:20:04] <boyd> I likes Gman's IDCWTFYDWI license
[14:20:09] <LeftWing> Bah.
[14:20:16] <oxygene> mbalmer: that's the ISC license
[14:20:23] <Tempt> I'll have my new license/
[14:20:32] <Tempt> which mandates all users buy me a beer.
[14:20:50] <boyd> Tempt: That's the BUD 2 clause license :)
[14:21:06] <boyd> Sorry about that
[14:21:07] <mbalmer> Tempt, phk at freebsd dot org uses that, he calls it the beerware license...
[14:21:08] <Tempt> heh.
[14:21:16] <Tempt> Fair cop.
[14:22:01] <boyd> I'd need a clause that says something like "North American large-scale commercial beers are not acceptable forms of payment"
[14:22:11] <Tempt> Mountain Goat, baby.
[14:22:14] <mbalmer> like bud....
[14:22:25] <boyd> yes
[14:22:27] <mbalmer> american beer is like making love in a canoe
[14:22:35] <mbalmer> (ok, old and lame joke...)
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[14:24:04] <quasi> boyd: you going for the beerware license?
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[14:24:21] <mbalmer> it's fucking close to water
[14:24:32] <quasi> mbalmer: yeah, very old
[14:24:34] <boyd> What I need is a local pub that lets people put money on my tab via paypal :)
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[14:25:43] <LeftWing> boyd: That sounds like a Pub 2.0 mash-up. ;P
[14:25:46] <palowoda> In the US you can just about get every beer you want at the local supermarket.  But if you go to say something like a concert or race show your in trouble.
[14:25:55] <oxygene> okay, hg2mtn is feature complete.. now I only need to wait 22 hours to import all onnv history
[14:26:00] <boyd> Actually, now that I'm out in the 'burbs, what I need is a local pub that I actually want to go to.
[14:26:35] <boyd> oxygene: excuse the ignorance: mtn?
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[14:27:07] <oxygene> boyd: monotone (monotone.ca)
[14:27:16] <boyd> LeftWing: We could have little buttons that say "Chugg This" :)
[14:27:21] <boyd> oxygene: Ah
[14:27:21] <quasi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beerware - modified to have beers shipped... not a bad idea
[14:28:04] <Tempt> hmm
[14:28:09] <Tempt> Spleen Payment Gateway
[14:28:16] <Tempt> VentPay
[14:28:46] <Tempt> boyd: Now you're in the burbs you need to spend more time in the city.
[14:28:57] <Gekkko[PDA]> back.
[14:28:58] <boyd> :)
[14:29:34] <boyd> Tempt: If edwardocallahan were here he could vouch for the crappyness of what's around here.
[14:30:18] <Tempt> Hey, you should sample some of the fine venues around the city on a more regular basis.
[14:30:39] <boyd> If only the lunch vouchers would work in them :)
[14:30:52] <Tempt> Lunch vouchers cover one bar near your location.
[14:30:55] <boyd> Tempt: Did I mention that the Mitre Tavern is on the list now?
[14:31:02] <Tempt> Whaa?
[14:31:05] <Tempt> That's damn fine.
[14:31:08] <boyd> :)
[14:31:19] <Tempt> IBM training has one pub on the vouchers
[14:31:27] <Tempt> I got a parma + chips + beer for my lunch the other friday
[14:31:54] <boyd> I guess there is the concern that companies may not want to be paying for their employees to have 2 pints for lunch and then sleep the afternoon
[14:32:46] <Tempt> hah.
[14:32:52] <Tempt> That could be possibly true.
[14:33:06] <boyd> ... as opposed to *not* having 2 pints and sleeping the afternoon like the other students :)
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[14:33:48] <Tempt> Oh, I'm sure nobody sleeps through your courses, Boyd.
[14:33:54] <boyd> Hehe
[14:34:05] <Gekkko[PDA]> Rifles?
[14:34:10] * Tempt tries to remember if he ever napped in one of Boyd's courses
[14:34:21] <Gekkko[PDA]> pointed at students?:
[14:34:34] <boyd> It's when I have students that are having trouble staying awake at 08:45 before I start that I know it's gonna be a tough audience.
[14:34:43] <Tempt> Well
[14:34:56] <Tempt> If I was ever in a course at 8:45 I'd be snooozing.
[14:35:01] <boyd> lol
[14:35:11] <Tempt> I don't wake up before 10. Everything prior is eyes painted open.
[14:35:24] <boyd> You need some of those Homer specs
[14:35:36] <boyd> ... and some eyes that look as unconvincing as the glasses
[14:35:43] <Tempt> Indeed. Especially for VRTS courses.
[14:36:00] <boyd> :) They'd be peril sensitive wouldn't they?
[14:36:08] <Tempt> JooJanta 2000!
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[14:36:43] * boyd attempts to re-acquire the conversation after losing it on that last comment.
[14:37:02] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol
[14:37:03] <Tempt> Joo-Janta 2000 peril sensitive sun glasses. Don't leave home without them.
[14:37:30] <Tempt> (I think that was the brand? Am I mistaken? Is there another leading vendor of peril sensitive shades?)
[14:38:24] <boyd> Could be... I seem to have faulted on that page.
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[14:40:22] <Tempt> Good thing I keep the book handy.
[14:40:25] <Tempt> Joo Janta 200.
[14:40:31] <Tempt> Added a zero in there.
[14:40:41] <boyd> Well, it's a few years later :)
[14:41:13] <boyd> Tempt: Simon Phipps may well agree with you: http://blogs.sun.com/webmink/entry/links_for_2007_08_26
[14:41:22] <Tempt> Still thinking about moving out of training?
[14:41:52] <boyd> Thinking.
[14:42:13] <Tempt> Mm.
[14:42:22] <Tempt> IBM is still hiring ;)
[14:42:59] <boyd> I suspect they may be for a little while :)
[14:43:21] <Tempt> Until those 25ks get replaced with monster pSeries
[14:43:22] <Tempt> :)
[14:43:35] <boyd> hmmm
[14:43:57] <Tempt> Apparently the POWER5+ is beating the E25Ks on the SAP benchmarks by a big margin.
[14:44:11] <Tempt> 595 or whatever the model is.
[14:44:17] <Gekkko[PDA]> ACRONYMS
[14:44:21] <Gekkko[PDA]> <.<
[14:44:22] <boyd> It's not really fair to compare new to old
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[14:45:17] <Gekkko[PDA]> why not?
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[14:47:13] <boyd> I mean that it's not reasonable to compare machines that are toward the end of their product cycle and that won't be a reasonable option when the purchae descision is made to machines that are just released and will be
[14:47:40] <Gekkko[PDA]> i see.
[14:49:14] <boyd> Instead I went with the whiny "it's not fair" option cos I can't be bothered typing
[14:50:22] <Tempt> I think the problem is a lot of those 25Ks were ordered with III
[14:50:25] <Tempt> not IV or IV+
[14:50:43] <Tempt> Requirement to run Solaris 8 or something.
[14:51:13] <boyd> (They'd be III+) I suspect many of them are doing jobs better suited to different boxes
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[14:53:37] <Tempt> Oh, of course.
[14:53:55] <Tempt> Hmm, neeeeeeeed IV+ CPUs.
[14:53:58] <Tempt> I want them.
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[15:02:39] <boyd> Ok, I'm off to bed. Night all
[15:02:51] <Gekkko[PDA]> bye
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[15:06:52] <Tempt> 'night.
[15:07:39] <trygvis> http://jaortega.wordpress.com/2007/07/10/erlang-now/
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[15:29:14] <Tempt> trygvis: I gather that isn't your blog?
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[15:34:30] <trygvis> nope
[15:35:32] <Tempt> Are people still using Erlang?
[15:35:41] <Tempt> I seem to remember a lot of use in the telco scene for a while.
[15:36:02] <trygvis> it has some very nice features, at least for a certain kind of apps
[15:36:37] <Tempt> Tempted to brush up and roll something out in erlang just to remind people.
[15:37:16] <trygvis> get the book and get started!
[15:37:24] <trygvis> with the book and erlang.org you'll get  pretty far
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[15:38:28] <Tempt> We'll see. If I get time. Which means some time next year probably.
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[15:49:35] <Berny> .oO(that oracle is beasty...)
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[15:58:14] <Tempt> The Beast of Oracle.
[16:00:51] <Berny> heureka
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[16:01:14] <Tempt> Is that a heuristic eureka?
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[16:01:36] <Berny> one *must* set a user's quota before that user can create any data
[16:03:50] <Berny> heureka is 1st person singular perfect indicative for greek heuriskein (to find) so says wikipedia ;-)
[16:04:50] <Pietro_S> Tempt: I think that some jabber server is written in erlang, from pub argue (he stated that erlang has much effectivier net code than other languages, when he point on C the flame started) with boss of czech free jabber net -> jabbim.cz
[16:05:07] <hali> ejabberd
[16:05:19] <hali> erlang is pretty cool, lisp'ish
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[16:50:40] <Pietro_S> is there any option to force gcc to use less RAM ? (RSS 611MB, when you have 1024MB RAM isn't optimal) :-(
[16:56:11] <Tempt> rcaps?
[16:57:12] <flyingparchment> don't compile c++
[16:58:24] <Tempt> don't use gcc
[16:58:53] <flyingparchment> studio tends to use less memory compiling c++ because it can't compile a lot of advanced code :)
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[16:59:50] <oxygene> flyingparchment: but when it does, it takes twice the memory
[17:00:27] <kjetilho> Pietro_S: turn off optimisation
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[17:18:22] <Pietro_S> but Ii want optimisations ;-)
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[17:19:59] <Pietro_S> I guess that I need more memory or at least nnot having swap and zfs on same disk ...
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[17:23:05] <jamesd_> Pietro_S, or at least turn off optimizations untill the final build...  it uses lots of ram
[17:23:39] <sioraiocht> e^ipi: ping?
[17:26:42] <Pietro_S> I think I should better to use some compilator cache program
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[17:30:47] <jamesd_> Pietro_S, yes that can help, and  distributed make is cool, if you have multiple boxes
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[17:40:33] <nareshov> erm, I'm getting belenix through wget, it says [text/plain] - that's fine, right?
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[18:37:59] <madhatter> re
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[18:49:14] <Pietro_S> jamesd_: does distribuated make works on different Solaris version - Solaris 10 + sxce? I gguess that it needs same compilers ...
[18:49:28] <cast> hey folks, bit confused how i got into this situation: zpool import reports the following - 'tank        UNAVAIL   insufficient replicas; mirror    UNAVAIL   corrupted data; c0d0p2  ONLINE; c0d1p1  ONLINE' - what i did was reboot and install another OS on c0d1p1, and have since zeroed out the start of c0d1p1 so nothing mistakes it for anything valid, thinking that i should be able to get the pool back online since c0d0p2 was untouched. is there some ...
[18:49:33] <cast> ... key insight i've missed?
[18:52:42] <flyingparchment> cast: can you paste that output with newlines intact?
[18:52:50] <flyingparchment> (rafb.net/paste)
[18:52:59] * cast nods
[18:53:57] <cast> http://rafb.net/p/slvdiv44.txt
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[19:06:32] <micken> hello
[19:07:03] <cast> hello
[19:07:17] <micken> I have a problem , I have a disk used by sparc linux , that solaris format coredumps , when trying to format it
[19:08:01] <micken> it is a 80GB ide disk , and it's on a ultra 5
[19:11:25] <micken> my system disk is also a 80GB disk , and that works , however solaris only recognise 12GB of it
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[19:14:18] <sstallion> micken: is it possible that you have 12G of swap on your old linux machine?
[19:14:36] <sstallion> the disk label id for linux swap is the same as the old solaris disklabel
[19:14:49] <micken> sstallion: no , not 12GB
[19:15:01] <madhatter> 12G of swap would be so nuts
[19:15:12] <sstallion> madhatter: depends on the machine
[19:15:34] <madhatter> sstallion: true, I admit
[19:15:35] <micken> sstallion: but there is a linux swap part onm the disk that format wont format
[19:15:49] <sstallion> micken: start with fdisk, clear out any old partitions and recreate
[19:16:06] <micken> sstallion: fdisk on a sparc ?
[19:16:12] <sstallion> you can do this from the solaris install disc
[19:16:28] <sstallion> sparc linux to sparc solaris?
[19:16:36] <g4lt-sb100> micken, uhm, U5's dont recognize 80G disks from OBP
[19:16:45] <micken> oh
[19:17:05] <g4lt-sb100> I'm someewhat suprised that you got it working under aurora
[19:17:13] <micken> but OBP tells me it's a 80GB disk
[19:17:14] <sstallion> micken: sorry i misunderstood, i thought this was a disk from a sparc linux machine going into an x86 solaris machine
[19:19:27] <g4lt-sb100> ahh, that was before the OBP patch in sol8
[19:19:43] <g4lt-sb100> now hey can get bigger, but nowhere near the third digit IIRC
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[19:20:08] <g4lt-sb100> I know hte max size IDE that ANY sparc can see is 127G
[19:20:59] <micken> I'm trying with zeroing the disk
[19:21:42] <micken> it worked :)
[19:22:24] <g4lt-sb100> I swear one day I'm going to make "the hobbyist's sparc", which explains a lot of what Sun will never tell you, such as realistic maxima of things you can do, semidocumnted tweeks to allow COTS hardware to work, etc
[19:22:39] <Triskelios> micken: a disk that size seems like a waste on a U5, unless it's one an external ATA card...
[19:23:14] <micken> Triskelios: well, I have no other disk, and I need some space
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[19:24:34] <g4lt-sb100> micken, it should work, except for the fact it isn't
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[19:24:50] <micken> what ?
[19:25:09] <micken> it does work no I just said that :)
[19:26:47] <g4lt-sb100> oh, shows how much I pay attention :/
[19:26:57] <micken> ;)
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[19:30:04] <sparvu> evening
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[19:31:51] <g4lt-sb100> you know, lasunching the gimp to resize an image is just wrong.  I might have to make imagemagick just to be able to do it decently :/
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[19:33:42] <micken> im is your friend
[19:34:50] <micken> a question I didn't find a answer to yesterday:
[19:35:52] <micken> 20M of ram disappeared when I added a scsi adapter , is that normal ?
[19:35:55] <Stric> g4lt-sb100: I wrote my own image scaler using gdkpixbuf.. it's just a few lines of code and is like 5x faster than imagemagick ;)
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[19:36:24] <Stric> g4lt-sb100: http://stric.se/svn/repos/src/imgscale/
[19:36:51] <cast> alright, i unplugged the second drive in the zfs mirror and now i can get the pool to import and can access all my data :). the question is, what do i have to do to the unplugged drive to reintegrate it into my pool, considering that when it was plugged in i couldn't do a zpool import [current zpool output - only 1 drive is plugged in: http://rafb.net/p/y10asU43.txt] [zpool output with both drives plugged in, the second has had its contents ...
[19:36:57] <cast> ... overwritten: http://rafb.net/p/slvdiv44.txt]
[19:37:49] <g4lt-sb100> micken, not that I know of.  unless the scsi driver is way more blated that I think it is
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[19:39:08] <Triskelios> cast: I guess pool metadata is still on the second drive
[19:39:15] <Triskelios> cast: zero it?
[19:39:52] <Stric> cast: zpool detach tank c0d1p1;zpool attach tank c0d0p2 c0d1p1
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[19:40:09] <cast> Triskelios: i was zeroing it for 3 odd seconds...figured that would be enough to overwrite the metadata at the beginning of the drive
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[19:40:39] <Triskelios> cast: probably has a few backups at intervals
[19:41:12] * cast shuts down and plugs drive back in, silly no hotswap pata
[19:41:14] <Triskelios> cast: what Stric said might work (plug the drive in between the commands)
[19:43:31] <Triskelios> if my understanding is correct you'll want to detach it before re-adding the second drive since it won't let you detach it if it fails to import the pool
[19:44:07] <cast> roger, have detached c0d1p1, shutdown, plugged in, am booting now
[19:44:40] * Stric -> /dev/f00d
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[19:56:45] <cast> thanks Stric, Triskelios , detach/attach worked great [had to fdisk to fix up the partitions] [and i realised...i've been using the first partition, which had changed somewhat when installing knoppmyth...so i can understand why zpool didn't automagically reconstruct the mirror. not sure why it said there were insufficent replicas though]
[20:00:03] <Triskelios> I think it couldn't determine which disk had valid data
[20:00:29] <Red_Cloud> I have a problem starting firefox.  It will not open from the panel so I open a console and start firefox.  I get this error message:  "Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "gail": ld.so.1: firefox-bin: fatal: libgail.so: open failed: No such file or directory"  Help?
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[20:03:10] <Triskelios> Red_Cloud: is SUNWgnome-a11y-base-libs installed?
[20:04:13] <Red_Cloud> Triskelios let me check
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[20:07:35] <Red_Cloud> Triskelios yes SUNWgnome-a11y-base-libs is installed
[20:07:54] <Pietro_S> hmm, looks like pkgtool/pkgbase is kidding from me ;-), first it writes: pkgbuild: pkgbuild: No error. and right after it ERROR: SFEwesnoth FAILED. Without any hint what is wrrong :-(
[20:08:38] <WickedWicky> look in /tmp/SFEwesnoth.log
[20:09:02] <Pietro_S> WickedWicky: that's from that log
[20:09:19] <WickedWicky> you should see a lot there, the ./configure output, make output
[20:09:50] <Pietro_S> I already checked it, it's fine
[20:10:02] * Pietro_S wants to summon laca ;-
[20:16:36] <Pietro_S> right now I'm trying to use 0755 file's priviledges instead 0644 which the game has for data dir ...
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[20:30:48] <Triskelios> Red_Cloud: pkgchk -l -P  /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/modules/libgail.so
[20:31:56] <Red_Cloud> Triskelios it show installed
[20:34:48] <Red_Cloud> Triskelios I execute " ldd /opt/csw/mozilla/firefox/lib/firefox-bin" and I get "libmozjs.so =>   (file not found)"  "libxpcom.so =>   (file not found)"  "libxpcom_core.so =>      (file not found)"  "libplds4.so =>   (file not found)"
[20:36:58] <g4lt-sb100> uhm, what part of /opt/csw are you forgetting here?
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[20:39:19] <richlowe> I'd assume mozilla wasn't built with appropriate runpaths.
[20:39:22] <richlowe> as g4lt hinted at.
[20:40:34] <Triskelios> yeah, blastwave firefox is going to need to find blastwave gtk
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[20:43:19] <g4lt-sb100> of course, the really proper answer is "use a recent veresion of SXE, then you have an integrated firefox out of the box
[20:43:34] <g4lt-sb100> +"
[20:43:42] <flyingparchment> who cares if its integrated, blastwave one is newer!!
[20:43:51] * flyingparchment looks for wesolows
[20:43:59] * cast waves good night
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[20:44:15] <g4lt-sb100> how could I forget that shiny is always better :/
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[20:49:40] <Red_Cloud> g4lt-sb100 everything worked wonderfully until I started gok.  At that point firefox ceased to start as user.
[20:50:09] <trochej> Users of Skype for Linux have just found out that it reads the files /etc/passwd, firefox profile, plugins, addons, etc, and many other unnecessary files in /etc. This fact was originally discovered by using AppArmor, but others have confirmed this fact using strace on versions 1.4.0.94 and 1.4.0.99.
[20:51:13] <g4lt-sb100> Red_Cloud, if you'r failing to listen to me in #solaris, why are you addressing me here?
[20:51:53] <jamesd> trochej, sounds like reading  /etc/passwd would be something needed for user validation...  and there shouldn't be anything really important in there anyways... besides a userlist.
[20:52:44] * g4lt-sb100 notes that even linsux uses /etc/shadow
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[20:53:29] <Red_Cloud> g4lt-sb100 I listen.  And last night I tried the blowaway /home/.firefox  I have uninstalled, cleaned up, reinstalled, etc.  Sorry to hurt your ego.  Get over it.
[20:53:42] <jamesd> trochej, in solaris 10, they could of found that out with a dtrace 1 liner, or  rwsnoop from the dtrace toolkit
[20:54:45] <e^ipi> and they could prevent it to see what breaks with ACL's and rbac
[20:57:03] <g4lt-sb100> Red_Cloud, no, I'm asking why are you addressing me if you have no intention of actually following through on what I say, either saying that you did it or doing it.  it's utterly pointless for you to ask me for anything if you won't address what I say
[20:57:37] <trochej> jamesd: Yes, I know, but there is a link to quite nice forum thread with big paranoia sign on it, on forum.skype.com :)
[20:58:32] <trochej> O, sorry, I didn't give the linkt to the original
[20:58:45] <trochej>  /., of course
[20:59:24] <Red_Cloud> g4lt-sb100 sorry for being rude.  I suppose a little courtious behavior from me would be better than silence.  I will do better in the future.  Thanks for your suggestions.  They do not go unheeded.
[21:00:22] <CIA-16> maybee: 6569719 panic dangling dbufs (dn=ffffffff28814d30, dbuf=ffffffff20756008), 6573361 panic turnstile_block, unowned mutex, 6584864 $MOS is not properly bounded by pool size, 6585265 need bonus resize interface, 6587723 BAD TRAP: type=e (#pf Page fault) occurred in module "zfs" due to a NULL pointer dereference, 6589799 dangling dbuf after zinject, 6594025 panic: dangling dbufs during shutdown
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[21:00:57] <trochej> jamesd: But then, why read firefox/*?
[21:02:27] <jamesd> perhaps to see if there were any plugins or cookies its interested in
[21:02:59] <jamesd> perhaps to make sure its set in firefox to handle skype links
[21:04:18] <e^ipi> jamesd: but you forget... "oh noes!! closed source is evil! it reads your passwords!!!"
[21:05:32] <jamesd> e^ipi, i know... with paranoia like that its surprising they are fighting tooth and nail to get dtrace in to linux
[21:06:02] <jamesd> with dtrace i could see what its reading, and when, and see what got returned  no matter if its closed source or not.
[21:06:26] <jamesd> including full  userland and kernel stack traces.
[21:07:33] <g4lt-sb100> are they fighting to get dtrace IN, or fighting dtrace?
[21:07:49] * g4lt-sb100 always thought that linsux was fighting dtrace
[21:07:51] <jamesd> they are fighting  dtrace....
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[21:08:44] <e^ipi> but dtrace started in solaris, which was at one point closed-source, which means it's evil & reads your passwords
[21:09:44] <e^ipi> *nod*
[21:10:07] <g4lt-sb100> is there a decent thing from solaris that they aren't fighting?  you know, thre's always the dynamic from opensolaris "but linux will steal all of our code".  looks like they won't be doing that soon ;P
[21:11:28] <e^ipi> I imagine they mostly fight it out of sour grapes
[21:11:49] <richlowe> People never agree, on anything.
[21:11:52] <richlowe> and this surprises you?
[21:12:33] <e^ipi> it's too hard to re-implement ( linux doesn't do that, they just copy and paste code from BSD and abandoned code ), so they fight it as being layering violations or whatever halfass arugment they can dredge up
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[21:13:03] <richlowe> pot, kettle, etc.
[21:13:04] <richlowe> ;)
[21:13:05] <g4lt-sb100> richlowe, surprises, no.  annoys, yes
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[21:26:05] <onlinebacon> I just got my new computer that Im going to install opensolaris on :)
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[21:27:38] <onlinebacon> bah stupid xchat :|
[21:32:25] <g4lt-sb100> onlinebacon, what do you mean?  xchat compiles fine on opensolaris, if you ./configure --disable-nls
[21:35:31] <onlinebacon> it crashed :)
[21:35:32] <onlinebacon> lol
[21:39:19] <onlinebacon> but i should be able to have my new computer running opensolaris in a couple of days when it gets here :) which is good
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[22:17:31] <WickedWicky> n00
[22:17:35] <WickedWicky> b00 too
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[22:53:29] <e^ipi> odd... one tends not to lose the entirety of the ON tree on a filesystem
[22:53:36] <e^ipi> but I seem to have done that very thing
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[22:56:32] <e^ipi> ahh, there it is
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[23:03:01] <jmcp> morning all
[23:03:16] <WickedWicky> good morning
[23:04:35] <WickedWicky> australia waking up?
[23:04:43] <jmcp> yeah
[23:04:46] <jmcp> 0700 here
[23:05:00] <jmcp> sun is shining, birds are singing .... my rainwater tank is full as well
[23:05:01] <jmcp> :-)
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[23:07:05] <WickedWicky> haha
[23:07:15] <WickedWicky> 23:07 here, it has been a nice 25C
[23:07:30] <jbk> hello
[23:07:39] <jmcp> gday
[23:07:52] <jbk> the heat index is a balmy 40C here :)
[23:07:53] <jmcp> jbk: got your email, haven't had a chance to respond yet - family been in town
[23:07:55] <jmcp> heh
[23:07:59] <jbk> ok np
[23:09:58] <jbk> actually that's an improvement, it was 46 earlier
[23:11:14] <WickedWicky> is that with humidex or?
[23:11:21] <jbk> heat index
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[23:17:48] <UGH> I hate D-Link with all my heart
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[23:25:32] <Red_Cloud> g4lt-sb100 I have searched for a different source of firefox and have come up with this:  http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/2.0.0.6/releasenotes/#contributedbuilds
[23:26:22] <e^ipi> Red_Cloud: what's the problem with the version that ships with nevada?
[23:26:50] <Red_Cloud> e^ipi I know nothing of that
[23:27:02] <e^ipi> ?
[23:27:14] <e^ipi> in nevada... there is firefox
[23:27:26] <e^ipi> it works good
[23:28:07] <Red_Cloud> The version that I was using also worked good......until I messed with the onscreen keyboard gok.  Then all ceased with firefox.
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[23:28:49] <sickness> http://volksweb.relitech.com/funstuff/gates3.mov <- I'd like to find an higher quality version :P
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[23:31:47] <e^ipi> Red_Cloud: and the debugger doesn't give you any information on where the problem may stem from?
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[23:43:46] <Red_Cloud> e^ipi yes it does.  I have not gotten it solved though.  problem with ligbail.so
[23:44:06] <Red_Cloud> ligbail.so = libgail.so
[23:44:25] <e^ipi> I assumed as such
[23:44:53] <Red_Cloud> e^ipi mess with gok for a while and see if you do not get the same problem
[23:46:38] <Pietro_S> Red_Cloud: did you try to install firefox from vermillion?
[23:46:55] <Pietro_S> that installation should clear all mess ...
[23:47:10] <Red_Cloud> Pietro_S no.  I know nothing of vermillion.
[23:47:45] <e^ipi> so google it
[23:48:01] <e^ipi> vermillion is the pile of packages distributed as JDS
[23:48:02] <Pietro_S> it's development build of JDS, you can find it in JDS project
[23:48:03] <Red_Cloud> e^ipi that is what I have done.  Thanks
[23:48:22] <jbk> anyone have experience with those lower power via chips/mbs?
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[23:52:01] <quasi> jbk: a little bit
[23:52:22] <jbk> i'm curious about the nic support
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[23:52:49] <jbk> since most of the MBs i've seen appear to use some sort of via chip for ethernet as well..
[23:53:00] <quasi> at least for some of them you need to look elsewhere for drivers
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[23:53:53] <quasi> http://homepage2.nifty.com/mrym3/taiyodo/eng/
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