[00:00:00] <mritun_> oh
[00:00:14] <mritun_> I really doubt if it's a standard disk
[00:00:18] <CIA-21> casper: 6587501 NFS client failed on TX down-label access to unlabeled node
[00:00:18] <wesolows> I don't believe c2d0 is the right disk.  But maybe I'm wrong and the weird partition table is confusing the driver somehow.
[00:00:32] <mritun_> some EMC and other SAN boxes have non-standard sector sizes
[00:00:43] <wesolows> I asked about that too but got no answer.
[00:00:49] <karrotx__> wesolows: i'm positive it's the right disk
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[00:01:01] <karrotx__> i'll try putting in another drive
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[00:01:08] <mritun_> any way to figure out disk geometry ?
[00:01:09] <karrotx__> one of the hot swap spares
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[00:01:13] <wesolows> Where did the "c2d0" come from?  How did you get it?
[00:01:18] <karrotx__> mritun_: prtvtoc?
[00:01:21] <wesolows> Not the disk, the device path.
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[00:01:26] <karrotx__> wesolows: format
[00:01:31] <mritun_> karrotx_: I doubt it'd help
[00:01:36] <mritun_> the device doesn't exist
[00:01:53] <wesolows> this makes no sense
[00:02:14] * wesolows gives up
[00:02:17] <karrotx__> i'll take a shot of with my phone of the format output if you'd like
[00:02:19] <karrotx__> damn
[00:02:32] <wesolows> I believe you, but it makes no sense
[00:02:51] <wesolows> the disk is broken, nonstandard, or somehow has a hardware problem
[00:02:56] <mritun_> karrotx_: try one thing
[00:03:10] <wesolows> if you can see it in format but can't write to it using rdsk/c2d0{,p0}, it's broken and that's the end of it.
[00:03:11] <mritun_> karrotx_: run format, when that asks to select the disk, select it
[00:03:21] <karrotx__> ok
[00:03:22] <mritun_> then from format, select fdisk
[00:03:26] <mritun_> see if that works
[00:03:30] <karrotx__> i'll also add, format takes a good 7 minutes to respond
[00:03:31] <nachox> non standard disks... that's so 80's
[00:03:35] <chris_d> sfire||mouse, The problem the USB drive resolves is that NFS write performance of large amounts of small files sucks.
[00:03:45] <karrotx__> this disk is a standard disk, whatever the dlink iscsi did to it
[00:03:46] <karrotx__> i have no idea
[00:04:16] <wesolows> there is another possibility; you may have uncovered a bug in one of the disk drivers in solaris
[00:04:29] <karrotx__> that's true
[00:04:35] <karrotx__> but i had a very similar problem with linux
[00:04:35] <mritun_> these guys do that so people don't take the device apart to get the disks
[00:04:38] <nachox> didnt he say linux failed too?
[00:04:44] <mritun_> :-/
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[00:04:54] <karrotx__> i had to use gnu parted to access it
[00:04:58] <karrotx__> then it was ok
[00:05:01] <sfire||mouse> chris_d: this is going to be a video server for web servers I think
[00:05:04] <wesolows> it is not possible to put a label on a disk that makes it impossible for software with direct disk access to overwrite it
[00:05:21] <wesolows> you can put a bizarre partition table on it, but the software can always overwrite it
[00:05:47] <karrotx__> ok i just took the drive out
[00:05:49] <wesolows> you can, however, do things like persistent reservations that could make them inaccessible to anyone else
[00:05:50] <karrotx__> now i'm running devfsadm
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[00:05:51] <mritun_> wesolows: naah... but low level formatting with arcane sector size *would* create a problem
[00:05:56] <wesolows> maybe they did something like that
[00:06:01] <wesolows> mritun_: Yeah, that could be.
[00:06:44] <karrotx__> i wonder if windows can access this thing, that's the only box i have open right now
[00:06:47] <karrotx__> heh
[00:07:04] <mritun_> I'd say if motherboard BIOS has low level format util, it's worth giving a shot
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[00:07:46] <karrotx__> after i took the drive out and ran devfsadm; it's still taking a very long time for format to respond
[00:07:52] <karrotx__> it's been over a minute
[00:07:54] <mritun_> though last I saw such thing was bios of a P-1 70 MHz
[00:08:53] <wesolows> SCSI BIOSes often do still
[00:08:58] <wesolows> not sure there's such a thing for SATA
[00:10:16] <karrotx__> what do i do about the long format returns?
[00:10:25] <karrotx__> it still hasn't returned output
[00:10:28] <chris_d> sfire||mouse, If that's the case, you may not need to worry about relocating the ZIL.
[00:10:36] <mritun_> karrotx_: I think something can be done about that
[00:10:39] <sfire||mouse> true
[00:10:44] <mritun_> we can at least figure out where's the problem
[00:10:45] <sfire||mouse> but its still cool to know about
[00:10:49] <mritun_> DTrace it :D
[00:10:56] <mritun_> and figure out what's getting stuck
[00:11:03] <karrotx__> my dtrarce knowledge is VERY small
[00:11:08] <karrotx__> dtrace*
[00:11:09] <mritun_> ditto
[00:11:18] <mritun_> but somebody got to be here
[00:11:37] <mritun_> Any dtracer alive ????
[00:13:22] <jmcp> mritun_: you might get a peep out of brendang if he's not too busy
[00:15:35] <mritun_> !seen brendang
[00:15:36] <Drone> brendang is currently online in #opensolaris and last spoke on Mon 20 Aug 2007 23:57 GMT, saying 'brendang just got back'.
[00:15:37] <karrotx__> i wonder if i can throw it in a linux box and try to run parted on it
[00:15:55] <mritun_> karrotx_: naah... we're trying to figure out exactly what's wrong
[00:16:00] <mritun_> jmcp: thanks :)
[00:16:24] <mritun_> brendang: there ?
[00:16:56] <karrotx__> ahh, i took the drive out
[00:17:01] <karrotx__> and it still thinks it's there
[00:17:04] <mritun_> I think dtrace comes with an example script that just logs every damn thing
[00:17:18] <wesolows> you're hotswapping sata drives?
[00:17:21] <karrotx__> yes
[00:17:25] <karrotx__> they're hot swappable
[00:17:26] <mritun_> bingo!
[00:17:29] <wesolows> uh huh
[00:17:37] <dlg> haha
[00:17:38] <wesolows> the drives might be
[00:17:38] <mritun_> is your controller AHCI aware ??
[00:17:47] <wesolows> but the driver and/or controller might not be
[00:17:47] <karrotx__> it's a sun x2200 m2
[00:17:59] <mritun_> oh.. Marvel
[00:18:06] <dlg> m2 isn marvel?
[00:18:07] <mritun_> I think that does hot swap
[00:18:10] <dlg> not nvidia?
[00:18:22] <wesolows> I never trusted it at all
[00:18:23] <karrotx__> it's nvidia i believe
[00:18:27] <wesolows> nvidia then no
[00:18:30] <wesolows> not until this build
[00:18:34] <mritun_> karrotx_: duh
[00:18:35] <dlg> not unless youre running 70
[00:18:40] <dlg> iirc
[00:18:45] <karrotx__> im actually running solaris 10 06/06
[00:18:51] <wesolows> sigh
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[00:18:53] <mritun_> then foget it
[00:18:57] <dlg> not hotswap then
[00:19:04] <wesolows> well that was a giant waste of mental energy
[00:19:07] <karrotx__> weird, it says they are in the doc
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[00:19:18] <mritun_> and pray you didn't bork any drive that was there at c2d0
[00:19:19] <wesolows> hotswapping has two components
[00:19:19] <dunc> lol wesolows
[00:19:26] <dlg> hw capability != software capability
[00:19:39] <wesolows> first, the drive electronics and connectors - this means you can do it without damaging the hardware
[00:20:02] <wesolows> second, the OS level ability to detect connect/disconnect and do sensible things like create device nodes and attach drivers, etc.
[00:20:30] <karrotx__> i'll give it a reboot
[00:20:36] <wesolows> Until very recently, Solaris has been pretty bad at the latter, and sata in particular has been hit or miss.  nvidia definitely didn't have it until the last build or so.
[00:20:43] <karrotx__> guys, i understand what it takes to be hotswappable
[00:20:55] <karrotx__> i was just under the impression it was
[00:21:10] <karrotx__> because i read it a few places, (i even think in the solaris doc for it)
[00:21:28] <dlg> i love marketing people
[00:21:36] <mritun_> karrotx_: for marvel it is... (because thumper has that one)
[00:21:51] <wesolows> dlg: It's more that the hardware is made by one org, who says yes, it's hot swappable...and they're right, it is.
[00:22:03] <mritun_> anything outside of that has only been in there in opensolaris builds
[00:22:04] <karrotx__> i'm not sure what the sata chip is
[00:22:10] <karrotx__> i know the mobo is partly nvidia
[00:22:16] <karrotx__> there are nvidia drivers for it on thecd's
[00:22:21] <karrotx__> and the lan cards are nvidia
[00:22:21] <wesolows> But the software comes from somewhere else, and they don't have it yet or the hardware (like anything ever made by marvell) is such a pile of shit that it doesn't work right or is hard to do.
[00:22:23] <mritun_>  /var/adm/messages or /usr/X11/bin/scanpci
[00:22:59] <wesolows> cfgadm -al should help - if you see the disks, they use the sata framework and there's some chance they're hotswappable
[00:23:07] <wesolows> if not, it's legacy ata and it will not work
[00:23:23] <karrotx__> i just rebooted the box
[00:23:37] <dlg> wesolows: i know
[00:23:45] <dlg> nvidia probably dont help though
[00:23:47] * mritun_ wonders what dtrace might have seen
[00:23:55] <mritun_> its whole suspense
[00:24:01] <mritun_> :(
[00:24:48] *** mritun_ is now known as mritun
[00:24:55] <wesolows> probably lots of timeouts and failure to online
[00:25:11] <mritun> hmm
[00:25:21] <mritun> then why didn't format say so ?
[00:25:32] <wesolows> how would format know?
[00:25:34] <mritun> isn't there some errno for that ?
[00:25:47] <wesolows> sure, EIO, EBUSY, or EINVAL.
[00:25:57] <mritun> well if some device is offline and isn't accessible at all, there should be something right ?
[00:26:04] <mritun> EINVAL
[00:26:06] <wesolows> seems it was giving ENXIO which also is vague and useless
[00:26:44] <karrotx__> ok, i'm running the replace command again
[00:26:53] <karrotx__> it immediately went to another line
[00:26:56] <karrotx__> does this mean it's working?
[00:26:57] <mritun> I'd say if the error reporting is *that* bad that user can't even find that a device just doesn't exist, it's a bug
[00:27:22] <mritun> karrotx_: check zpool status
[00:27:31] <mritun> some resolvering should be going on
[00:27:34] <karrotx__> hell yes!
[00:27:37] <mritun> resilvering*
[00:27:42] <karrotx__> thank you guys
[00:27:53] <mritun> nm
[00:28:23] <mritun> just file a bug for error reporting... format didn't tell you that the device didn't even exist
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[00:29:19] <wesolows> trying to hotswap non hotswappable disks has very poor error handling in general
[00:29:22] <mritun> but how the hell it found out c2d0 ??
[00:29:46] <wesolows> don't know; I've seen this behaviour before though.
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[00:29:53] <mritun> does it mean it somehow figured out that *some thing* has been plugged in
[00:29:58] <mritun> but didn't online it ?
[00:29:59] <karrotx__> i'm guessing it picked up the drive when it was added last week
[00:30:03] <karrotx__> and then it was taken out
[00:30:12] <karrotx__> and i put it back in today
[00:30:43] <karrotx__> if this command works this easy, it's fucking genius
[00:30:50] <wesolows> it does
[00:30:55] <bda> zfs++
[00:31:06] <mritun> zfs *is* a work of fine engineering
[00:31:30] <mritun> that engineering is what keeps my confidence in Sun alive ;)
[00:31:31] <wesolows> if you had the very latest nv build, your sata hotplug would have worked too and this experience would have been silky smooth all the way through
[00:31:40] <mritun> even though SUNW is below $5 :P
[00:31:59] <karrotx__> mritun: i know, i bought it at 6.54 :(
[00:32:07] <mritun> hehe
[00:32:16] <mritun> I think it's undervalued right now
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[00:32:20] <nachox> when did it sink?
[00:32:29] <karrotx__> couple months ago it went down hill
[00:32:37] <karrotx__> recently after apple sunk it took a horrible turn for the worst
[00:32:48] <Gman> it'll come back
[00:32:56] <jmcp> nachox: when the subprime lending fiasco started to pull everything else down too
[00:32:59] <wesolows> no forward looking statements please
[00:33:02] <karrotx__> if i get a spare 500 i might finish off with 100 shres
[00:33:07] <mritun> if sun plays the T2 well... you'd all be rich :D
[00:33:27] <karrotx__> sun should be in the 60's atleast
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[00:33:52] <mritun> it's fucking amazing when Vmware gets market cap close to sun on day 1
[00:34:00] <Fetch> (mritun) zfs *is* a work of fine engineering
[00:34:02] <mritun> and they sell "virtual servers"
[00:34:21] <mritun> and *real server* maker is punted to hell and back by wall street
[00:34:23] <karrotx__> 98.7% done, this thing is flying
[00:34:24] <nachox> jmcp, ahh, yes, i remember a friend complaining about the SE sinking a little while ago
[00:34:25] <Fetch> if only it wasn't as sensitive as a virgin Mormon with bad acne
[00:34:26] <jmcp> wesolows: of course, and I'm sure gman was merely expressing a personal belief as well
[00:34:29] <Fetch> at a high school dance
[00:34:30] <Ljuvefreya> hi.. I'm totally new to solaris and kind of bewildered. Is this where I can ask a newbie question (I have googled)...
[00:34:39] <jmcp> Ljuvefreya: sure
[00:34:47] <karrotx__> wooh! it's done
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[00:35:10] <nachox> try osol-discuss too <wink>
[00:35:15] <wesolows> jmcp: I'm sure, but I'd sooner post closed source code to this channel than talk about financials, even peripherally.  That's just dumber than dirt.
[00:35:25] <jmcp> indeed it is
[00:35:28] <Ljuvefreya> I have solaris 10/06 in vmware fusion. Trying to load smc as root I get
[00:35:45] <jmcp> wesolows: you should thump Gman then
[00:35:54] <Ljuvefreya> "java.lang.InternalError: java/langNullPointerException"
[00:35:55] <wesolows> he doesn't report to me
[00:35:55] <mritun> nachox: with all the "this is not a help desk" thread fiasco :P
[00:36:02] <jmcp> wesolows: or me
[00:36:07] <jmcp> Gman: oi! consider yourself thumped
[00:36:15] <jmcp> wesolows: he's closer to my side of the planet
[00:36:23] <nachox> mritun, heh, that's why i was joking :P
[00:37:07] <Ljuvefreya> and then at sun.awt.motif.MComponentPeer.pSetFont(Native Method)
[00:37:23] <Ljuvefreya> then it goes no further :-p
[00:37:28] <mritun> Ljuvefreya: it might mean that hostname is not properly set or that system config is borked
[00:37:30] <jmcp> Ljuvefreya: that's not really enough information for us, and *technically* this channel is just for opensolaris discussions. You've installed Solaris 10 though
[00:37:53] <Ljuvefreya> hostname not properly set gave me a pointer though
[00:37:54] <nachox> i have yet to see an admin that likes smc
[00:38:07] <jmcp> Ljuvefreya: what did you google for, btw?
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[00:38:17] <jmcp> http://www.google.com.au/search?q=solaris+smc+psetfont returns 3 hits
[00:38:18] <mritun> Ljuvefreya: if you're not using for some commercial motives (where this forum is wrong place), please consider one of the opensolaris distributions and not the commercial one
[00:38:21] <Ljuvefreya> the actual error message I got as stated
[00:38:34] <Ljuvefreya> sorry
[00:38:39] <jmcp> Ljuvefreya: forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5181221&messageID=9709072
[00:38:41] <Ljuvefreya> no, not for commercial motive
[00:39:01] <Fetch> so, was that the Caiman installer I "experienced" in snv_70? If so... what an "exciting" project (and: dying after receiving mouse events is usually suboptimal...)
[00:39:07] <wesolows> it actually doesn't matter; you're allowed to use any of those distributions (including Solaris 10) for pretty much any purpose
[00:39:16] <ahl> +1
[00:39:19] <wesolows> but this isn't an S10 support forum, that's all.
[00:39:31] <jmcp> hi ahl
[00:39:53] <jmcp> Ljuvefreya: that forum url I just pasted - that has the fix you need
[00:40:27] <Ljuvefreya> jmcp: yeah, read it now. Thanks! I really appreciate it :)
[00:40:36] <jmcp> Ljuvefreya: you're welcome
[00:40:48] <mritun> Ljuvefreya: if you get that problem fixed, please consider the new builds from opensolaris
[00:41:02] <Ljuvefreya> sorry. I looked in #solaris and their topic says "go to someone who care" or something in that measure and listed your channel
[00:41:04] <mritun> and update on the opensolaris website how did it go
[00:41:17] <Ljuvefreya> "if you need help with solaris go to the people who give a shit #opensolaris" :-p
[00:41:21] <mritun> OS on a mac should rock ;)
[00:41:22] <ahl> hiya jmcp
[00:41:25] <jmcp> Ljuvefreya: which is a great shame
[00:41:43] <jmcp> ahl: have you beaten brendang @ fishpong yet?
[00:41:55] <nachox> hehe, the #solaris topic is so user friendly :P
[00:41:58] <wesolows> ahl is the undisputed master of fp
[00:42:02] <ahl> jmcp: hah... I'm the undisputed champ of fp
[00:42:05] <jmcp> heh
[00:42:14] * Ljuvefreya got Solaris DVD for free form Sun, is completely new in IT tech and was kind of curious about Solaris
[00:42:23] <jmcp> ahl, wesolows I've seen the photos, but I can't quite get my head around it
[00:42:24] <Ljuvefreya> and I have no knowledge at all about Linux ;)
[00:42:35] <mritun> Ljuvefreya: then you basically need OpenSolaris....
[00:42:37] <jmcp> I'll have to score myself a trip across the pond to come and experience it first-hand
[00:42:43] <ahl> jmcp: read ashlee's articles: we'll be going public with fp in early '08
[00:42:44] <mritun> that has all the new bells and whistles
[00:42:48] <Ljuvefreya> but I had solaris as part of unix class back in college for a semester
[00:42:59] <Ljuvefreya> I work with only MS stuff at work, so I have a Mac at home to regain my sanity ;)
[00:43:00] <jmcp> ahl: :-)
[00:43:05] <karrotx__> mritun, wesolows, nachox, thank you
[00:43:08] <karrotx__> time for me to go home to my woman
[00:43:15] <mritun> karrotx_: np ;)
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[00:43:58] * jmcp sighs
[00:44:16] <jmcp> we've got no usdt probes in usr/closed/....scsi/adapters :(
[00:44:22] * jmcp adds to his todo list
[00:44:39] <wesolows> usdt in the kernel?  I hope not
[00:44:41] <wesolows> SDT maybe
[00:44:48] <jmcp> sorry, yeah
[00:44:52] <ahl> some day we'll have USDT in the kernel
[00:44:57] <ahl> as in -- not a hacked up mechanism
[00:45:07] <jmcp> ahl: at the same point we've got an httpd in the kernel?
[00:45:15] <ahl> nononoo
[00:45:20] * jmcp rotfl
[00:45:21] <jmcp> :-)
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[00:45:31] <Ljuvefreya> ok, I might sound weird now, but is there a way to make the GUI in Opensolaris to look like CDE?
[00:45:32] <ahl> that's insane, replicating the USDT mechanism for the kernel would be reasonable
[00:45:33] * Ljuvefreya ducks ;)
[00:45:56] <jmcp> Ljuvefreya: choose CDE from the gui login screen
[00:46:03] * mritun would HIGHLY appreciate if someone hacks GNOME to work like CDE
[00:46:03] <jmcp> Ljuvefreya: because that *is* CDE
[00:46:04] <Ljuvefreya> so CDE comes with Opensolaris as well?
[00:46:09] <jmcp> yes
[00:46:12] <Ljuvefreya> coool
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[00:46:13] <nachox> usdt == ultra slim desktop?
[00:46:14] <mritun> I think GNOME would need a lobotomy
[00:46:14] <hile_> on sxce anyweay
[00:46:19] * Ljuvefreya goes to opensolaris website
[00:46:28] <ahl> nachox: the other USDT: user-land statically defined tracing
[00:46:32] <wesolows> you don't have to use GNOME.  You don't even have to install it.
[00:46:33] <Ljuvefreya> in vmware, CDE is way faster than gnome
[00:46:40] <ahl> we even have an entry in some abbreviation finder
[00:46:54] <jmcp> ahl: wackypedia?
[00:47:06] <nachox> http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/USDT
[00:47:11] <WickedWicky> are there still Sun compilers around where cc will actualy execute on a non sparcv8+ ?
[00:47:17] <ahl> nachox: exactly
[00:47:20] <WickedWicky> or am I stuck with gcc?
[00:47:22] <ahl> I don't know who added it, but it wasn't me
[00:47:25] <Gman> Ljuvefreya, xfce looks similar to cde
[00:47:26] <Stric> ahl: another acronym expander I know gave me for instance "Underwear Salvage Drugged Testicles"
[00:47:43] <wesolows> ahl: If your CPU is that old I honestly don't see why you'd care.
[00:47:45] <wesolows> err
[00:47:50] <wesolows> WickedWicky: ^^
[00:47:51] <Ljuvefreya> do I want Solaris Express CE then?
[00:47:52] *** Kush- has quit IRC
[00:47:55] <boyd> Universal Daylight Savings Time
[00:47:59] <WickedWicky> wesolows: just for the fun of it
[00:48:01] <boyd> Err...
[00:48:06] <boyd> In french?
[00:48:09] <mritun> Ljuvefreya: yep... SXCE or Belenix or Nexenta
[00:48:16] <mritun> pick your poison ;)
[00:48:34] <mritun> Nexenta -> GNU userland aka. GNU/Solaris
[00:48:35] <wesolows> gcc works fine.  Use it.  Love it.  Enjoy it.
[00:48:38] <ahl> stric: that was the double-secret abbreviation
[00:48:49] <WickedWicky> wesolows: will do ;-)
[00:48:50] <mritun> Belenix -> Funky... comes even with LiveCD/LiveUSB
[00:49:02] <Ljuvefreya> and Nexenta comes with CDE?
[00:49:08] <nachox> nope
[00:49:09] <mritun> I doubt so
[00:49:22] <mritun> that traditional stuff is only in SXCE
[00:49:27] <Ljuvefreya> I got SXCE
[00:49:29] <mritun> (and would soon be gone)
[00:49:30] <mritun> :(
[00:50:29] <nachox> but if you want lightweight there there is xfce
[00:51:37] <Ljuvefreya> downloading :)
[00:51:43] <brandini> Yay!
[00:52:04] <Ljuvefreya> I'm working on MCSA/MCT, but I like to have my feet outside of Microsofts world :-p
[00:52:36] <mritun> ewww... a microsoftie with secret love for Solaris !!!!
[00:52:58] <Ljuvefreya> actually, a Microsoftie who uses MacOS X privately and tries Solaris :-p
[00:53:10] <Ljuvefreya> I'm not employed by Microsoft
[00:53:15] <mritun> heh
[00:53:21] <mritun> ok folks
[00:53:35] <boyd> I used to teach MCSE courses, but I got over that
[00:53:45] <mritun> would anybody tell me the best way to go from build 60 to build 70 ?
[00:54:02] <wesolows> the best way is always a fresh install
[00:54:06] <mritun> no optical drive at disposal... but I can boot from the ISO
[00:54:13] <brandini> well, my drives still aren't showing up to solaris :/
[00:54:19] <wesolows> if that doesn't work for you, people seem to like liveupgrade
[00:54:26] <mritun> wesolows: don't want to re-download all 250 meg of shit from blastwave
[00:54:46] * Ljuvefreya held her first MCT class today, in Vista troubleshooting
[00:54:58] <mritun> if there's a way to preserve those packages, I'd like to do a fresh install
[00:55:04] <boyd> Ljuvefreya: How'd you go?
[00:55:08] <mritun> Ljuvefreya: cool
[00:55:11] <Ljuvefreya> the 1 student attending was happy
[00:55:18] <Stric> "Duck, and hope for the best"
[00:55:20] <brandini> wesolows!
[00:55:25] <mritun> Ljuvefreya: did they mention the recent audio+network throttling fiasco ?
[00:55:35] <Ljuvefreya> fortunately due to job requirements I have to run Vista x64
[00:55:39] <jmcp> brandini: were you the person having problems with a Sil3114 the other day?
[00:55:44] <Ljuvefreya> and it doesn't work with a whole lot
[00:55:54] <brandini> jmcp: yup, yesterday in fact ;)
[00:55:55] <Ljuvefreya> so there's not a whole lot to break it
[00:56:12] <Ljuvefreya> so a plain out of the box Vista x64 with more or less only Office 2007 and everything else virtualised works fine ;)
[00:56:15] <jmcp> brandini: I need some help from you - could you run       prtpicl -v      and email me the entire output please
[00:56:24] <Stric> my brother seems to have bumped into some sil3114 problems.. haven't looked into it much though, but with 3 of those at the same time, stuff just worked badly
[00:56:28] <brandini> yup... lemme fire up the box
[00:56:29] <Stric> any 2 - worked fine
[00:56:37] <jmcp> brandini: dlg logged an rfe to get support for that card in ata mode integrated, and I've picked up that rfe
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[00:56:57] <brandini> jmcp: ok
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[00:57:04] <brandini> box is on its way up now
[00:57:29] <Sieghard> solaris is so cool
[00:57:31] <jmcp> the rfe is   6595150 ata driver doesnt attach to Silicon Image 3114 controllers with a RAID firmware
[00:57:50] <Stric> nice :)
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[01:01:24] * boyd goes back to teaching
[01:02:43] <nachox> boyd, you teach? :)
[01:03:12] <nachox> i wonder if via's crappy sata controllers will ever be supported ...
[01:04:34] <jmcp> nachox: do they work in legacy-ata mode if you run update_drv with appropriate args?
[01:05:03] <nachox> jmcp, they do not even have that option
[01:05:22] <jmcp> nachox: bummer
[01:05:25] <jmcp> probably not, then
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[01:05:46] <jmcp> unless you log an rfe requesting that they be supported, and somebody sees enough of a business case to justify doing the work
[01:06:19] <nachox> jmcp, people should avoid them, not supporting it is doing them a favor :)
[01:06:42] <high_roller> I'm running solaris 11-66 in a domU and trying to recover the root password, has anyone done this?
[01:10:11] <mritun> fuck... never seen static like that....!!
[01:10:37] <mritun> I picked up USB hdd lying on desk... tried to connect it to a desktop... Bzzzzzzzzzzzt, and it rebooted
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[01:10:46] <jmcp> hi Tpenta
[01:10:57] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Tpenta
[01:11:04] <Tpenta> hi james
[01:11:27] <Chipdancer> hi Tpenta :)
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[01:12:16] <axisys> what is the touch /reconfigure + reboot equivalent for sol 8?
[01:12:26] <axisys> devfsadm and what else?
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[01:13:04] <amattas> is it possible to register and update solaris from the shell or does it have to be done in X
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[01:15:24] <palowoda> You have to use X to get the free coffee cup or tee shirt.
[01:15:43] <Tpenta> hey chipdancer
[01:15:54] <amattas> nice..
[01:19:50] <nachox> amattas, in SXCE and DE is not very usefull but check the basic administration manual, the steps are there
[01:21:15] <axisys> i am getting tons of scsi bus transition.. few hundreds a min.. http://rafb.net/p/7YocIW60.html
[01:21:24] <axisys> any idea what could go wrong?
[01:21:34] <wesolows> ENOGOAT
[01:22:14] <axisys> according to format I have nothing attached to it /pci@8,600000/pci@1/scsi@5
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[01:22:59] <axisys> it is a sun fire 280r
[01:23:06] <axisys> running sol 8
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[01:25:48] <brandini> jmcp: fixed yet!
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[01:28:26] <Lurken1> axisys: for solaris 8 you would be better off asking on comp.unix.solaris
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[01:31:01] <jmcp> brandini: there's testing required
[01:31:13] <brandini> :)
[01:31:25] <jmcp> brandini: installation testing, mostly
[01:31:30] <brandini> jmcp: I know the drill
[01:31:32] <jmcp> but that means I need to do a full build
[01:31:47] <brandini> we've pushed a couple "patched jars" into production... it makes me nervous
[01:31:58] <brandini> especially since I patched them and did the testing :(
[01:32:18] <jmcp> so if the tests passed, you should be fine, right?
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[01:32:41] <gettyup> why would I be able to login to my global zone with my non-global zone password?
[01:32:42] <brandini> jmcp: sure... but it didn't go through full regression tests
[01:32:48] <axisys> Lurken1: thnx
[01:32:58] <brandini> jmcp: so even though we only changed one class.... it's error prone :)
[01:33:08] <jmcp> :(
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[01:33:43] <brandini> and we're just adding features... so we're going to make one merchant work at the risk of breaking all the others
[01:33:50] <jmcp> not good
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[01:33:58] <brandini> once in a while is ok
[01:34:03] <brandini> but we were on 8.1.3 on friday
[01:34:09] <brandini> and just pushed 8.1.3c today :)
[01:34:40] <brandini> usually 8.1.3 would sit on test/production for a week, then hit production production :)
[01:34:53] <jmcp> speed kills
[01:35:05] <brandini> yes, but we have incentives!
[01:35:16] <brandini> Google loves us!
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[01:37:04] <bobbyz> I've heard that's how google operates in general.  Release early and release often
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[01:38:41] <brandini> bobbyz: we'll be on a conference call with them.... customer requests feature, next week, "Yea we've got that in beta"
[01:38:51] <brandini> so we wind up having to update and accomodate
[01:39:02] <bobbyz> yup, sounds about right  :)
[01:39:19] <Fetch> wow, so my horrific ZFS problems got resolved... turns out the scsi subsystem decided to slap SMI labels on all the member disks :)
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[01:39:54] <dlg> brandini: did your disks come back on the 3114?
[01:39:59] <brandini> hmm, I should plug in my A1000 and see if I can zfs some of those
[01:40:02] <brandini> dlg: nope
[01:40:10] <bobbyz> Fetch: good to hear.  That sounds like a nightmare  :)
[01:40:10] * dlg hrm
[01:40:13] <brandini> dlg: I was looking at another card though... let me find it
[01:40:26] <brandini> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816118030
[01:40:38] <brandini> it's not on the HCL.... but... it's something I can afford that would do what I need :)
[01:40:43] <Tempt> Mornin' all.
[01:40:51] <brandini> hiya Tempt :)
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[01:41:01] <dlg> its an mpt
[01:41:06] <dlg> or mpi if you like what i called it
[01:41:12] <dlg> it'll work fine
[01:41:13] <bobbyz> brandini: if you want 8-port without raid, get this one http://www.supermicro.com/products/accessories/addon/AoC-SAT2-MV8.cfm
[01:41:19] <dlg> just make sure you have the latest firmware on it
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[01:41:43] <brandini> bobbyz: I like the SAS :)
[01:41:47] <bobbyz> gotcha
[01:41:57] <brandini> dlg: and I think that card works in openbsd right?
[01:42:06] <dlg> the mpi/mpt does
[01:42:07] <dlg> for sure
[01:42:18] <dlg> the one bobbyz pasted has no driver in openbsd
[01:42:18] <dlg> yet
[01:42:20] <SYS64738> and what is mpf instead ?
[01:42:30] <SYS64738> sorry mfi
[01:42:36] <bobbyz> oh, I thought he was looking for solaris card
[01:42:44] <brandini> I could add a rather large external to that and be all set
[01:43:12] <dlg> SYS64738: mfi is a raid controller, not a straight hba
[01:43:29] <SYS64738> ok
[01:44:05] <brandini> dlg: it seems like that's a good card though
[01:44:10] <brandini> I've had my fun with "cheap"
[01:45:04] <dlg> which one? mpt or the supermicro one?
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[01:45:28] <brandini> mpt
[01:45:49] <SYS64738> dlg, has you mfi driver some limits ?
[01:46:15] <dlg> SYS64738: yes
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[01:46:56] <SYS64738> which ?
[01:46:57] <FrostCS> that LSI might not be on HCL, but it's atleast got Solaris Support.
[01:47:21] <brandini> Yay!
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[01:47:40] <dlg> SYS64738: mfi only does IO, there's no mgmt or monitoring
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[01:48:03] <jmcp> SYS64738: you need to download the ITU from his webpage before you can install to it
[01:48:08] * jmcp grumbles
[01:48:16] <dlg> jmcp: thats a huge problem, yes
[01:48:39] <dlg> also, solaris doesnt like installing on big volumes, which are fairly easy to generate on an mfi controller
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[01:48:55] <SYS64738> how many gigs ?
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[01:49:12] <dsch04> Hey all - a quick question...
[01:49:20] * dlg shrug
[01:49:23] <dlg> either 1 or 2 TB
[01:49:34] <dsch04> Can OpenSolaris read linux RAID and LVM volumes?
[01:49:35] <dlg> ive had 7TB volumes on mfi though
[01:49:40] <dlg> dsch04: no
[01:49:48] <dsch04> OK, thanks!
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[01:51:19] <SYS64738> what are differences between use a raid 5 array of the megaraid and use a mirrored pool with zfs ?
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[01:51:48] <SYS64738> are there differences about velocity ?
[01:51:58] <Stric> probably
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[01:52:20] <SYS64738> I don't remember if the megaraid as or not the backup battery
[01:52:23] <Tempt> Ooh, got an email about Sol10u4
[01:52:34] <Tempt> Please be advised of the new release time frame for this update: Availability will now be early September. Due to this minor schedule adjustment, the update will not be re-named at this time and will continue to be called Solaris 10 8/07.
[01:52:45] <FrostCS> hahahahah
[01:52:52] <bobbyz> hah, that's doesn't make any sense
[01:52:55] <FrostCS> opps, sorry did I say that outloud..
[01:53:01] <jmcp> bobbyz: yes it doesn
[01:53:18] <movement> somebody knows why solaris releases are named that way. they're not telling though.
[01:53:37] <jmcp> it means that the work involved in respinning *everything* which refers to 8/07 is too great and would cause extra delay
[01:53:44] <jmcp> ie, it's a waste of time to do so
[01:53:50] <FrostCS> quasi is going to love that announcement
[01:53:59] <bobbyz> they should just call it 10u4 and leave off the date crud altogether
[01:54:25] <Tempt> I noticed it didn't come from the usual Sun noise email but from a guy who was handling feedback on the beta program.
[01:54:27] <FrostCS> or give it the old date of 7/07
[01:54:39] <Tempt> I'd love to know what went so horribly wrong as to break the release this much.
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[01:54:58] <wesolows> yeah I dunno maybe S10U4 isn't sexy enough
[01:54:59] <FrostCS> Project Indiana did it
[01:55:06] <dlg> mega_sas?
[01:55:19] <jmcp> dlg: nope
[01:55:22] <FrostCS> opps, I swore.. sorry
[01:55:29] <dlg> wishful thinking on my part i guess
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[01:55:38] * dlg feel annoyed
[01:55:43] <jmcp> dlg: you and me both
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[01:55:58] <brandini> so there a lot of sun folks here :)
[01:56:41] <FrostCS> I don't know about that.. some are gloomier then others.
[01:56:55] <brandini> ha ha ha
[01:56:58] * brandini *rimshots*
[01:58:54] <FrostCS> hrmm, having a torrent style download manager, and not notifying the user of such.. I wonder if that's legal..?
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[02:01:26] <alanc> movement: marketing insists customers prefer the dates in the names as an obvious way to tell how old a release is without having to lookup/memorize all the release version->date mappings
[02:02:07] * alanc suspects the customers they ask about it are CIO's not the actual engineers
[02:03:23] * Tempt suspects Dr. Dre is not an actual doctor.
[02:03:25] <movement> alanc: coo.
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[02:05:10] <nachox> new rock article at the reg, and this one is actually worth reading since it led me to a sun article about transactional memory from sun
[02:05:26] <FrostCS> Tempt, really? my ex-wife has been going to him for years.
[02:05:35] <wesolows> oooh, transactional memory
[02:05:41] <wesolows> that's 1337
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[02:06:30] <jmcp> it's insanely 133t
[02:06:55] <wesolows> aka complete waste of brain cells
[02:07:31] <nachox> always so positive
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[02:21:05] <brendang> did someone ask abot DTrace?
[02:21:53] <Tempt> brendang: Didja notice Boyd's got probes into zsh?
[02:22:07] <brendang> Tempt: yep, its awsome
[02:22:30] <brendang> Tempt: I'll blog about it when I get a chance
[02:22:35] <Tempt> No more trussing user's shells to work out how they're breaking things.
[02:25:37] <nachox> hmm, trussing a shell?
[02:27:17] <Tempt> Indeed.
[02:27:18] <Tempt> Try it.
[02:28:07] <nachox> i meant why you would do that
[02:28:25] <Tempt> To see what people are doing.
[02:28:33] <Tempt> To see exactly how the developers are forkbombing the hosts
[02:28:55] <Tempt> To find out exactly what that guy is going on that host at this odd time when he shouldn't even be logged in.
[02:29:00] <Tempt> etc, etc.
[02:29:13] <nachox> ohh, you want real time information, auditing is not enough, makes sense
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[02:29:26] <Tempt> Sometimes you just want to find out what the hell is going on.
[02:29:33] <Tempt> Can also be handy for long running scripts.
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[02:36:09] <boyd> I think Tpenta's sh probes are going to have wider application
[02:36:15] <boyd> (Morning, all)
[02:37:14] <jamesd_> i wonder if a properly tuned shell app can be faster than a java app? ;-)
[02:37:43] <boyd> alanc: Of course the converse is that with the dates you can't tell how different two releases are without remembering the date -> release version mappings :)
[02:37:59] <jamesd_> i know one java app that can be replaced by a shell script ;-)  starts with  smc
[02:38:11] <boyd> jamesd_: For small jobs where the java time is dominated by startup I'd say yes
[02:38:27] <boyd> For everything else, you have ksh93 :)
[02:38:44] <alanc> well, you know they are different updates of Solaris 10 - Update 2 vs Update 4 is about as informative as 5/06 vs 8/07
[02:39:05] <boyd> Haha! "Arsebook is an anti-social utility that connects you with the people YOU HATE" http://www.arsebook.org/
[02:39:32] <Tempt> I know many people who could be replaced with a very simple shell script
[02:39:36] <alanc> now if they had names like "Solaris 10 NewBoot update" or "Solaris 10 ZFS update"...
[02:39:57] <boyd> alanc: Maybe, but I think GA->update 2 is more useful than 3/05 -> 6/06
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[02:40:59] <nachox> i'm guessing there are still no plans for solaris 11 right?
[02:41:29] <FrostCS> cool, I can add you guys to my arsebook ..
[02:41:35] <boyd> I sat next to a guy on the train the other day who spent the entire trip doing 2 things: 1) waiting for his laptop to boot and then load Lotus Notes 2) going to each email in a folder and forwarding it to the same person after adding "approved for payment". Shell script indeed
[02:41:46] <Tempt> Given I've already read ARC cases that talk about features on u5, I wouldn't be holding my breath
[02:41:47] <alanc> have you ever driven across Nevada?  it takes a long time to get to the other side, and you can't see it over all the mountains in the way
[02:42:09] <alanc> we can't see the end of the Nevada roadmap yet...
[02:43:07] <Chipdancer> jmcp: any idea if they will ever incorporate openbsd's pf in opensolaris?
[02:43:13] <jmcp> Chipdancer: no idea
[02:43:18] <jmcp> Chipdancer: what's wrong with ipf?
[02:43:28] <jamesd_> Chipdancer, are you porting it?
[02:43:29] <nachox> ipf is ok imho
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[02:43:50] <Chipdancer> jamesd_: not yet :)
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[02:43:53] <jamesd_> i think sun is going to pay some to port another firewall technology into solaris, since they did it once.
[02:44:00] <jamesd_> er dont think
[02:44:04] <FrostCS> it was a gsc project right?
[02:44:05] <Chipdancer> *nods*
[02:44:10] <nachox> now it makes sense :P
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[02:44:33] <Chipdancer> I've not used opensolaris' ipf - any views on how it compares to pf?
[02:44:41] <FrostCS> I had thought someone was doing pd...
[02:44:51] <Chipdancer> FrostCS: pd?
[02:44:52] <FrostCS> err pf*
[02:44:55] <Chipdancer> :)
[02:44:56] <jamesd_> ask google... someone must have written the comparison by now
[02:44:57] <nachox> port iptables
[02:45:00] * nachox hides
[02:45:05] <dlg> nachox: SHUT UP SHUT UP
[02:45:10] <nachox> hahaha
[02:45:13] <jmcp> Chipdancer: why would I want to use pf when I could use ipf and hassle avalon directly?
[02:45:20] <jamesd_> only if you did shorewall as well...  shorewall rocks
[02:45:39] <nachox> dlg, what? i didnt stab you, did i?
[02:45:41] * Chipdancer consults google...
[02:45:48] <FrostCS> chipdancer, hard to type when eating.. and well always eating
[02:45:50] <dlg> nachox: no, iptables annoys me
[02:45:59] <dlg> i cant figure it out
[02:46:05] <Chipdancer> FrostCS: you need a new input mechanism, for either the hold or the computer :)
[02:46:06] <Stric> doesn't annoy me
[02:46:17] <Chipdancer> dlg: it's just somewhat limited in what it can do
[02:46:52] <Stric> I would say ipf is limited compared to iptables
[02:46:57] <dlg> Chipdancer: what is? ipf or iptables?
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[02:48:38] <Chipdancer> dlg: iptables
[02:48:47] <dlg> i dunno
[02:48:50] <dlg> there's a ton of modules
[02:48:54] <dlg> its just really confusing
[02:49:01] <SYS64738> what the right way to set the date ?
[02:49:01] <Chipdancer> dlg: and they're a real pain sometimes to get working :)
[02:49:09] <dlg> well, thats what i find
[02:49:14] <Chipdancer> ntpdate -u pool.ntp.org ?
[02:50:11] <SYS64738> 21 Aug 17:52:28 ntpdate[20684]: Can't set time of day: Not owner
[02:50:56] <Stric> are you root?
[02:51:00] <nachox> that is not a zone?
[02:51:17] <SYS64738> is it a zone
[02:51:27] <SYS64738> but the time isn't synchronized with the global
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[02:53:01] * Chipdancer wanders off to make morning coffee
[02:53:05] <SYS64738> I think I have a problem with svc:/system/sysidtool:net
[02:53:41] <axisys> is there anything on solaris product list that can be comparable to Oracle Cluster File System ?
[02:54:08] <FrostCS> actually, do freebsd and openbsd use the same pf?
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[02:55:06] <SYS64738> FrostCS, I think this happens only in pfsense
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[02:56:38] <IvanR_> SYS64738: Is it a brand new zone? Have you answered the initial config screens on the zone console?
[02:57:44] <SYS64738> IvanR_, the zlogin put me at the prompt
[02:57:53] <Tempt>    695509 revolutions of the clock hand
[02:57:55] <Tempt> ouch!
[02:58:10] <Tempt> CAN HAS MORE MEMORY?
[02:58:27] <FrostCS> axisys, you mean other then solaris cluster? etc...?
[02:59:09] <IvanR_> I mean "zlogin -C" on the 1st boot of the zone.  It prompts for config settings ( like dns/nis/ldap, timezone, etc ).
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[03:00:04] <Tempt> Bring back SunScreen ;)
[03:00:12] <Tempt> or ship FW-1 with every Solaris
[03:00:27] <Tempt> That'll really teach people about misery.
[03:01:21] <idnar> bwahaha
[03:01:24] <dlg> FrostCS: both net and free have pf, but its slightly different
[03:01:26] <idnar> that's just mean
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[03:02:06] <FrostCS> well one of the google summer of code projects was pf... http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/summerofcode/students/;jsessionid=433A88F0783FDA21F51820C633F90098
[03:02:13] <FrostCS> not sure the outcome of it.. etc.
[03:03:55] <axisys> FrostCS: well I am looking at the AVS project.. that looks so awesome.. never used OCFS.. did not if sun cluster can be compared to ocfs
[03:04:50] <axisys> did not know if..
[03:05:01] <FrostCS> don't know much about it myself.. haven't read up on it yet
[03:05:14] <FrostCS> which is why I was asking :)
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[03:07:02] <aglio2> hey, anyone installed SXDE on VMware Fusion?
[03:07:03] <axisys> from what I am reading I can't think why ocfs would be better than zfs
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[03:07:54] <FrostCS> though zfs can't be literally a clustered file system.. right?
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[03:08:55] <jamesd_> FrostCS, not yet... i think there are RFE's out there..
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[03:09:25] <FrostCS> yea, I think I am recalling some of this info.. :-)
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[03:11:09] <jbk> evening
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[03:11:24] <Chipdancer> FrostCS: FreeBSD's pf is usually a revision or 3 behind the current OpenBSD pf
[03:11:54] <FrostCS> but better or worse then your take on ipf? :-)
[03:12:23] <SYS64738> in pfsense there is the last freebsd and the last pf
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[03:12:49] <Chipdancer> I haven't as yet tried to configure solaris/open as a dedicated router and firewall
[03:13:53] <Tempt> I did a dedicated fw on Sol9.
[03:13:57] <Tempt> It worked nicely
[03:14:07] <Tempt> Stayed up three years without getting pwned
[03:14:18] <Chipdancer> Tempt: QoS, Vlans and other nice features all played well?
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[03:14:59] <Tempt> QoS?
[03:15:02] <Tempt> Bah!
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[03:15:16] <nachox> Tempt, and it got pwned after the third year? :P
[03:15:25] <Tempt> It got de-commed after the third year
[03:15:34] <Chipdancer> Tempt: no QoS?
[03:15:47] <Tempt> Netra T105 running Solaris 9 with a qfe
[03:15:49] <Tempt> ipfilter
[03:15:52] <Tempt> Worked like a charm.
[03:19:16] <Tempt> Who needs QoS anyway?
[03:19:49] <wesolows> voip users
[03:20:29] <Tempt> Haha.
[03:20:32] <Tempt> Yes, well.
[03:20:39] <dlg> buy bigger links
[03:20:44] <FrostCS> voip users *with bandwidth issues
[03:20:51] <dlg> bah
[03:21:08] <Tempt> Or just say no to VoIP?
[03:21:25] <Tempt> The length people will go to to stinge out of a few dollars on their phone bill.
[03:21:58] <nachox> "a few dollars?"
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[03:23:07] <Chipdancer> Tempt: it's not always about calling landlines
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[03:24:13] <FrostCS> heh, I save about $600 a year using a voip service
[03:24:30] <FrostCS> make that 1 million people.. that can be a lot of cash
[03:24:39] <Chipdancer> FrostCS: VoIP isn't the *only* reason you would want to use QoS
[03:25:01] <FrostCS> Chipdancer, I am not supporting the QoS issue at the moment
[03:25:02] <axisys> FrostCS, jamesd_ well will AVS it can be zfs no?
[03:25:09] <Chipdancer> though, it's probably the first mainstream reason that most people have really taken an interest in it
[03:25:12] <FrostCS> I am merely defending my use of voip :-P
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[03:26:23] <FrostCS> thinking about it.. there is a lot of filesystem projects open..
[03:27:07] <axisys> can OCFS be run on solaris? anyone would know?
[03:28:15] <FrostCS> what's with ocfs all of the sudden?
[03:28:17] <Tempt> Obsessive Compulsive File System?
[03:28:20] <jamesd> axisys, i have no idea.    not sure what avs is
[03:28:39] <axisys> jamesd: http://opensolaris.org/os/project/avs/
[03:28:47] <axisys> Tempt: heh
[03:29:10] <axisys> FrostCS: just looking at email from work.. they are wondering how would ocfs compareable to sun cluster..
[03:29:19] <jbk> axisys: don't believe so thank god
[03:29:25] <jbk> just go asm
[03:29:31] <wesolows> for us voip allowed us better utilisation of our interoffice T1 - before it had been split 50/50 voice/data, but the voice lines were rarely used.  voip was a great way to get more badnwidth for data without sacrificing voice quality.  It was more flexible.
[03:29:37] <axisys> jbk: hey man
[03:29:50] <axisys> jbk: i remember u use oracle a lot
[03:30:16] <jbk> i just had a linux box hang due to ocfs at work today
[03:30:22] <nachox> we saved the cost of the phone service at the office with voip
[03:30:26] <jbk> though i do like how apologetic it is about panicing the node
[03:30:39] <wesolows> panicking!  panicking, with a k!
[03:30:40] <axisys> jbk: i am sorry.. and at the same time i like what u told me..
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[03:31:19] <axisys> jbk: i wanted to here some bad reviews. so tell the oracle guys to fuck off and stay with solaris cluster
[03:31:22] <FrostCS> picnicking
[03:31:30] <axisys> jbk: and use asm like u r suggesting
[03:31:38] <jbk> oh they want you to just use crs don't they?
[03:31:39] <axisys> jbk: so u r saying it is not so reliable
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[03:31:56] <jbk> well dunno, it could very well be the storage stack on linux that's at fault
[03:32:19] <jbk> given how long it took them to get scsi support decent, i cringe to think what other issues are lying in there
[03:32:31] <axisys> they also wanted to use linux .. i dont mind my ubuntu .. but i think solaris would be more reliable
[03:32:33] <jbk> but either way, AFAIK, ocfs has not been ported to solaris
[03:32:34] <Tempt> wesolows: If you're using random hosts to handle QoS between sites I'm glad I'm not involved with your network. QoS between WAN sites should be handled by the routers.
[03:32:45] <nachox> jbk, http://www.orablogs.com/otn/archives/000729.html
[03:32:48] <Tempt> Screw linux.
[03:33:01] <FrostCS> If those are your choices, use Solaris Cluster
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[03:33:09] <axisys> Tempt: heh.. i use ubuntu for my laptop..
[03:33:16] <FrostCS> has RAC support
[03:33:24] <jbk> but crs is crap
[03:33:27] <FrostCS> axisys, easy with the language man
[03:33:37] <jbk> don't let them fool you
[03:33:40] <axisys> FrostCS: my bad *sigh*
[03:33:42] <wesolows> Tempt: yeah, that's what this was - the cisco switches and routers did all the qos work.
[03:33:51] <jbk> it's poorly documented, and poorly supported by oracle
[03:34:02] <jbk> even if you're spending 8, almost 9 figures with them
[03:34:03] <wesolows> Larry Linux?
[03:34:08] <axisys> FrostCS: i have a huge say .. but still like to back my comments with some revies and feedbacks
[03:34:12] <jbk> (speaking from personal experience)
[03:34:32] <wesolows> the people who work for oracle seem to hate larry linux
[03:34:39] <axisys> jbk: what is crs ?
[03:34:51] <axisys> wesolows: larry linux?
[03:35:00] <jbk> i also know of places (indirectly) that ended up pulling out their linux rac clusters and putting them on solaris, because it's very much a black art to get all the various patches correct, as well as the other pieces of the software stack
[03:35:08] <Tempt> I have ubuntu on my laptop
[03:35:11] <Tempt> My laptop tends to crash a lot
[03:35:14] <jbk> axisys: cluster ready services, oracle's poor excuse for cluster software
[03:35:27] <jbk> which with 10g rac, they now make mandatory if you want to use rac
[03:35:34] <axisys> Tempt: hmm..
[03:35:40] <jbk> however, on some platforms, they will interoperate with 'vendor clusterware
[03:35:41] <jbk> '
[03:35:43] <Tempt> Sometimes I boot my laptop back to XP
[03:35:48] <Tempt> but only when I want stability.
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[03:35:59] <wesolows> now that's saying something
[03:36:00] <axisys> Tempt: hmm.. sorry to hear that..
[03:36:08] <Tempt> And I submitted patches and updates back ...
[03:36:14] <Tempt> and got told to 'piss off'
[03:36:23] <Tempt> So linux can go and die in a fire.
[03:36:27] <jbk> heh i like #3
[03:36:30] <Tempt> I hope ubuntu gets *worse*
[03:36:39] <jbk> on that link
[03:36:52] <friendly12345> Tempt: sorry I missed that - what did you submit patches for
[03:36:53] <Tempt> More bugs, more crashes, more slowdowns, more 'sploits, more servers getting pwned.
[03:36:54] <jbk> too bad they seem to use their own software implementations for encryption
[03:37:13] <jbk> and don't seem to use the solaris crypto api (and thus gain access to any potential hw acceleration that might be present)
[03:37:19] <Tempt> friendly12345: power management on Fujitsu lifebook - S3 suspend kills the screen backlight and doesn't restore it so I fixed the scripts to handle it.
[03:37:39] <friendly12345> Tempt: oh I see
[03:37:59] <Tempt> Apparently this is my fault for buying a "wierd laptop" and I should "just run windows"
[03:38:14] <Tempt> I've still got the emails somewhere, I should put them online.
[03:38:18] <friendly12345> Tempt: which distro was it?
[03:38:19] <jbk> which is actually surprising, they were pretty quick to take advantage of the locality api
[03:38:27] <Tempt> Ubuntu. Breezy I think.
[03:38:33] <Tempt> or whatever stupid name they gave it.
[03:38:43] <Tempt> Sodomite Squirrel
[03:38:52] <friendly12345> ha
[03:39:19] <nachox> hehe
[03:39:35] <Tempt> Actually, every time I've tried to submit patches for anything linux related I've either been ignored or told to DIAF.
[03:39:36] <SYS64738> qmailrocks scripts for solaris install are fully corrupted
[03:39:37] <friendly12345> Tempt: the replies by them don't sound very constructive
[03:40:02] <friendly12345> Tempt: really? what else have you tried to submit?
[03:40:09] <Tempt> The whole experience pretty much cured me of wanting to deal with linux and cured me of any desire to participate in open source projects.
[03:40:10] <axisys> SYS64738: i would suggest to install using Life w/ Qmail instead if it is not too late
[03:40:24] <Tempt> friendly12345: patches for the pci ne2k ethernet driver
[03:40:51] <SYS64738> axisys, yes I do, but I was courious to see qmailrocks
[03:40:56] <aglio2> Tempt: hey, don't tar us all with the same brush
[03:41:06] <aglio2> Tempt: linux isn't the only oss project out there
[03:41:08] <nachox> Tempt, where did you send those patches?
[03:41:10] <Tempt> friendly12345: tablet support for the p1510 all cleaned up nice-like.
[03:41:14] <Tempt> ummn, there were a few more.
[03:41:16] <wesolows> I'd like to say we're better, but I don't think it's really true.
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[03:41:24] <wesolows> We have different problems.
[03:41:34] <SYS64738> axisys, if modified those scripts make like with qmail more easier
[03:41:36] <Tempt> I'll work with OpenSolaris because at least people will listen even if they don't care.
[03:41:43] <SYS64738> s/like/life
[03:41:48] <wesolows> Less unfriendliness, but with Sun's iron grip over processes, it's too much of a pain to get things done.
[03:42:21] <friendly12345> Tempt: wow, that's pretty poor
[03:42:54] <Tempt> Linux lost someone who was working hard on scheduling stuff recently because of the politics
[03:43:03] <axisys> so sun blade 6000 is more flexible than 8000 as far as mixing different platforms?
[03:43:11] <jmcp> Tempt: there's no policits in linux
[03:43:24] <delewis> axisys: yes, the 8000 does not support Xeon.
[03:43:26] <jmcp> dammit, where's mod.speeling gone
[03:43:29] <Tempt> It's all ivory-tower penguin-worshipping bowing-to-linus crap
[03:43:41] <jmcp> Tempt: exactly. that's not politics, merely the price of entrry
[03:43:42] <dwc-> qmail rocks the boat?
[03:43:43] <friendly12345> Tempt: you have a point there
[03:43:51] <FrostCS> also the 6000 is a bit easier to fit in :-)
[03:43:55] <axisys> delewis: that is the only diff as far as hardware?
[03:44:03] <wesolows> Tempt: tbh, I never really had that problem, but I never worked on x86 stuff, either.
[03:44:11] <nachox> wesolows, will any of those reviewing teams be open to the community any time soon?
[03:44:15] * delewis just wants to use something that'll allow him to accomplish the computing goals he wishes to.
[03:44:20] <wesolows> Tempt: On the platforms he didn't care about (that is, all of them except x86) it was pretty easy to do work.
[03:44:27] <delewis> fuck politics. fuck religion. I just want something that works.
[03:44:28] <FrostCS> axisys, you can compare them on sun.com
[03:44:36] <wesolows> nachox: code review is already open to all
[03:44:47] <wesolows> nachox: the ARC is open in theory but it needs more work
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[03:44:48] <axisys> FrostCS: i was trying on sunsolve and getting link down try again
[03:44:51] <Tempt> delewis: Waiting on my p510 .. waiting, waiting, I hate waiting ...
[03:44:59] <SYS64738> I go to bed
[03:45:02] <SYS64738> good night
[03:45:05] <FrostCS> axisys, you guys haven't mirrored this stuff yet?
[03:45:12] <wesolows> ARCs other than PSARC are not even bothering (the theory being that they'll do whatever PSARC works out as the right thing to do)
[03:45:13] <delewis> Tempt: did you get the advanced partitioning option?
[03:45:21] <Tempt> delewis: Yes, it was freeeeee.
[03:45:27] <delewis> you can't do DLPARs or VIO unless you have that or an HMC.
[03:45:29] <delewis> Tempt: sweet.
[03:45:48] <Tempt> delewis: although you can do a few domains without it.
[03:46:04] <Tempt> delewis: and you need to set up an HMC for a lot of stuff anyway, it seems.
[03:46:09] <delewis> Tempt: sure, just static LPARs. No dynamic resource allocation, virtual ethernet, virtual SCSI, etc.
[03:46:26] <Tempt> delewis: It could take up to two weeks to actually get the machine (!) I want it *NOW*
[03:46:43] <FrostCS> axisys, here is a sc 3.2/oracle walkthrough for you.. http://prefetch.net/blog/index.php/2007/06/20/deploying-highly-available-oracle-databases-with-sun-cluster-32
[03:46:44] <wesolows> (45 seconds?! awwww, but I want it NOW!)
[03:46:49] <nachox> hehe
[03:46:53] * delewis just wants to graduate
[03:46:56] <Gman> wesolows, lsarc are starting to it seems
[03:47:04] <Tempt> wesolows: Hey, don't get between me and my insatiable appetite for new toys.
[03:47:09] <axisys> FrostCS: thanks a lot man
[03:47:31] <wesolows> Tempt: I was referring to the maching that can flash-fry a buffalo in 45 seconds, as seen on the simpsons
[03:47:32] <nachox> ew, i want new toys too!
[03:47:42] <FrostCS> I don't do much with oracle.. otherwise I'd try to be a bit more helpful on that subject..
[03:48:05] <nachox> damn, that what a funny movie, the simpsons are much more fun in spanish than in english
[03:48:10] <wesolows> Gman: Yeah, that seems to be ongoing slow as molasses progress.
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[03:48:41] <wesolows> Mercurial will help a lot, I suppose, but the consolidations need to be ready to operate openly too.
[03:48:51] <wesolows> That means they need a clear and simple path to flying solo.
[03:48:52] <Gman> well, psarc are hardly streets ahead on that front
[03:48:59] <axisys> FrostCS: hey man are you kidding.. i appreciate the help
[03:49:14] <axisys> and all the channel usuals here.. all the time!
[03:49:31] <Tempt> They should elect me lord and master of Solaris. I shall make all the decisions. All debates will be conducted over beer. My wisdom will guide you.
[03:49:40] <jbk> :)
[03:49:42] <nachox> hehe
[03:49:53] <wesolows> Gman: no, they're not.  It's very much a static, one-way street.  People who don't work for Sun can look but not really participate, and certainly not as equals.
[03:50:13] <Tempt> Perhaps Sun should just hire everyone?
[03:50:28] <wesolows> To the extent that no one has the level of expertise needed to be an ARC member, that's ok.  But I think it's really much more than that.  There's no genuine effort, in the ARCs or anywhere else, to have a level playing field.
[03:50:47] <wesolows> That's actually our loss, because it leaves us beholden to increasingly hostile and ham-handed management.
[03:51:06] <Tempt> Mmm, ham. I like ham.
[03:51:07] <wesolows> Tempt: That seems to be the going strategy.
[03:51:41] <wesolows> I guess it's ok; if people are good and they want to work for us, why not hire them?
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[03:51:56] <wesolows> But that doesn't mean it's ok to say we're going to be fully open and then not do it.
[03:52:34] <Tempt> Well, I gave you a solution to the whole problem. The ARC of Tempt.
[03:52:39] <nachox> wait, you mean you hired ian because he was good, that really wasnt a marketing move? ;)
[03:53:00] <Tempt> They hired Ian because Jonathan got drunk and stoned and wanted some cheap lols.
[03:53:06] <jbk> haha
[03:53:41] <Tempt> I cannot fathom any other reason, although it is amusing to see the hate in the linux community going his way for being a "traitor".
[03:55:07] <jbk> those damn hoosiers
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[03:56:05] <alanc> plocher told us today that LSARC-EXT doesn't work because he designed the PSARC-EXT <-> opensolaris-arc mail gateway to assume PSARC was the only open solaris ARC
[03:56:30] <alanc> so all mail to opensolaris-arc gets forwarded to PSARC-EXT
[03:56:36] <jmcp> alanc: sounds like he should be thwapped
[03:56:43] <jmcp> what a crazy assumption
[03:57:00] <alanc> he's had plenty of thwapping already this week from the ARC fileserver downtime
[03:57:01] <jbk> so stupid question, why not then have opensolaris-larc? :)
[03:57:04] <brendang> Tempt: lets wait and see. if Indiana manages to add cool features to Solaris installs and what-not, then fine.
[03:57:52] <jmcp> massively decreasing install time is a cool feature, in my book
[03:58:05] <alanc> (of course, LSARC-EXT seems broken to me too, since it assumes OpenSolaris is the only community LSARC will participate in, and all the non-Solaris stuff that comes to LSARC will be left out)
[03:58:42] <jbk> heh the indiana hate is amusing... it's like 'omg he's gonna break everything in solaris'... somehow i'm guessing there would be a less than minor revolt if that actually ended up being the case, and it got pushed through
[03:58:49] <wesolows> it also make it clear just by the name that this is a second class thing
[03:59:31] <axisys> how would sun blade compare w/ HP c-7000 ?
[03:59:34] <brendang> the rest of the world might not know that Indiana is one giant trailer park ;)
[03:59:34] <jbk> i don't think there's any fear that if it sucks, no one's going to be too timid to state their mind about it
[03:59:50] <jbk> brendang: actually, it's more of a giant corn field
[03:59:55] <jbk> with a few splotches of cement
[04:00:03] <brendang> jbk: fair enough. I've never been.
[04:00:13] <jbk> brendang: not missing much :)
[04:00:13] <brendang> jbk: maybe I should google satellite it.
[04:00:43] <Gman> alanc, i don't know why plocher doesn't just dump the idea of integrating into the webapp, and just host the sac.eng equivalent on opensolaris.org
[04:00:47] <wesolows> corn, cement, smoke, and snow
[04:00:48] <alanc> Indiana is most famous for being a place where people spin their wheels and go around in circles for hours without getting anywhere
[04:00:49] <Gman> seems like an easy enough solution
[04:01:01] <jbk> a girl i know went to perdue (in west layfayette, in -- around where i believe ian lives).. it's a big aviation school
[04:01:09] <alanc> though I find the Project Indiana discussion far more interesting than car racing
[04:01:19] <jbk> she took her cessna up as high as it was rated to go
[04:01:28] <jbk> and still couldn't escape the smell of manure
[04:01:59] <alanc> Gman: I suggested that to him a couple weeks ago - pointed out cr.opensolaris.org worked via rsync and he got envious
[04:02:00] <jbk> (which is i think part of the reason why everyone drives at least 70-75mph on I65 between chicago and indy)
[04:02:10] <nachox> quiet people, no more indiana bashing or i know someone here that will start stabbing all of you :)
[04:02:27] <Gman> alanc, i suggested this years ago, and recently organized an account on dlc.sun.com for him to play with :)
[04:02:33] <jbk> alanc: don't forget that the KKK almost literally ran the state for a number of years :)
[04:03:39] <jbk> nachox: i lived there for 21 years, i think i'm allowed to comment on it :)
[04:04:07] <Gman> nachox, i mostly just ignore it now
[04:04:40] <brendang> nachox: you are right - Indiana needs love, not war.
[04:04:54] <nachox> Gman, see? that is not cool, it was better when you got mad and everything, much more fun
[04:05:38] <Tempt> [12:04] <brendang> nachox: you are right - Indiana needs love, not war.
[04:05:41] <Tempt> that's quotable.
[04:06:02] <aglio2> VMware fusion?  Anyone?
[04:06:03] <brendang> :)
[04:06:17] <Tempt> Ditch Indiana as a concept.
[04:06:21] <Tempt> Relaunch the good bits under a new name
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[04:06:33] <Tempt> Don't tie the name Ian Murdock to any of it.
[04:06:40] <Tempt> Everyone will be happy as a pig in shite.
[04:06:41] <boyd> Minnesota?
[04:06:50] <Tempt> Arkansas?
[04:06:55] <nachox> Tempt, you want to bring hate into more us states? :)
[04:06:58] <Tempt> Hawaii?
[04:07:03] <boyd> Vermont
[04:07:26] <jbk> actually when indiana was first announced, it reminded me of this one kids in the hall skit
[04:07:38] <aglio2> U.S. Virgin Islands!
[04:07:43] <nachox> i guess by now Gman knows we're not being serious
[04:08:06] <jbk> where a couple is having what looks like a party for the wife's office at their house
[04:08:08] <Tempt> I was actually being serious with my suggestion to ditch Indiana and launch all the non-linuxisation bits as a seperate project.
[04:08:14] <wesolows> those of us who are serious don't bother slagging off indiana in this channel
[04:08:37] <wesolows> it's a waste of electrons
[04:09:20] <nachox> there is a mailing list if i actually have something i want to complain about, here i just try to have a little fun with it
[04:09:22] <jbk> i think until there's actually something people can run, criticism is a bit premature
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[04:09:56] <Tempt> anyway, lunchtime
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[04:10:45] <wesolows> instead of fighting it here, we just need to be sure that we have processes in place so that Sun can't ram stupid decisions down our throats in some backroom deal
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[04:11:02] <wesolows> that goes for everything, not just indiana, so it's a generally necessary action
[04:11:41] <aglio2> wesolows: You're not a Sunnie, I take it
[04:11:55] <wesolows> What's a Sunnie?  Sun employee?  Sure I am.
[04:12:09] <Chipdancer> hehe, Sunnie or Sunni? :)
[04:12:17] <Chipdancer> what's the difference? :P
[04:12:46] <alanc> heh, S10 8/07 won't be out until September, but Sun Ray 9/07 came out today - glad we have those date-based names to tell us which is older
[04:13:08] <jbk> haha
[04:14:10] <Chipdancer> wesolows: this might help my comment :) http://youtube.com/watch?v=1vxaiw03YIg
[04:14:26] <wesolows> sfw?
[04:14:26] <jbk> i have some ideas for projects that i think would be neat for opensolaris, but one thing that somewhat worries me is i see vague references to things that suggest there might be at least some overlap
[04:14:27] <aglio2> we need cute names instead
[04:14:34] <aglio2> like "Fiesty Fawn"
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[04:14:41] <jbk> but don't know for sure
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[04:14:42] <aglio2> or "Seasick Snake"
[04:14:47] * delewis stones aglio2
[04:14:48] <Lurken1> Name them after pokemon
[04:15:00] <aglio2> Lurken1: trademarked :-(
[04:15:13] <wesolows> we don't need fancy names or date based names
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[04:15:29] <Lurken1> Blearg, true. Though debian gets away with it for Toy Story, but yeah, you're right.
[04:15:32] <wesolows> a goddamn monotonically increasing integer is sufficient
[04:15:36] <jbk> and since my time is limited to outside work, i really don't want to spend a few months then 'oh yeah, here's a bunch of code we've developed in near secret that renders everything you'd done moot'
[04:15:53] <boyd> wesolows: +1
[04:15:56] <boyd> +1
[04:15:57] <boyd> +1
[04:16:00] <boyd> (sorry)
[04:16:11] <wesolows> jbk: The Community Groups are supposed to be the places to go to understand this.
[04:16:22] <wesolows> And the ARC should be able to help as well, though that's not always true.
[04:18:08] <alanc> jbk: have you tried asking?
[04:18:46] <jbk> on some stuff yes, and the response was 'well we're doing some stuff on it, and will probably release it sometime in the future'
[04:19:15] <comay> which community groups were these, btw?
[04:19:27] <comay> it would help to understand what your project ideas were
[04:20:04] <wesolows> if they're doing some stuff, it should be a project.  if it's not a project, you're welcome to race them to the ARC and then to the gate.
[04:20:20] <jbk> well here's (part of) what I want: an actually useful multi-system solution for managing users and access
[04:20:37] <wesolows> that's ambitious.
[04:20:38] <jbk> LDAP as it stands has some big gaps
[04:20:45] <jbk> yes i know :)
[04:20:50] <wesolows> Would you base it on LDAP?  Presumably.
[04:20:59] <jbk> well that would be the likely foundation
[04:21:21] <wesolows> So who is working on this?
[04:21:39] <jbk> well there's a few projects around improving naming services, improving ldap
[04:21:40] <wesolows> The Sparks people might be doing some related work but I'm not aware of anything too similar.
[04:21:47] <jbk> yeah
[04:21:59] <wesolows> If you're talking management-side, that's really a different thing.
[04:22:15] <wesolows> Though per-user nscd should probably be factored in.
[04:22:54] <jbk> well what i don't get is everyone has completely ignored the question of authorization, and only looked at authentication
[04:23:16] <boyd> jbk: Out of intrest, can you give examples of the kind of gaps you are talking about?
[04:23:25] <comay> steleman has noted that our existing LDAP client libraries has numerous incompatibilities with OpenLDAP
[04:23:42] <comay> addressing that would be a likely difficult but potentially rewarding project
[04:23:44] <wesolows> comay: Yes, better standards integration would be excellent.
[04:23:47] <jbk> comay: well i think it relies on a few controls that aren't there
[04:23:55] <jbk> well unfortunately, even the standards don't really address it
[04:23:56] <steleman> comay: not only incompatibilities but also gaps
[04:24:02] <wesolows> The stupid bootstrapping thing needs to be burned to the ground.
[04:24:11] <wesolows> But we should also find a standard way for account management to work.
[04:24:14] <boyd> I'm suprised about that, I thought it was a standard protocol
[04:24:23] <jbk> boyd: well very basic example, i have 500 systems supporting say 50 different apps across various production and non-production environments
[04:24:44] <jbk> ldap's nice for naming services
[04:24:48] <comay> steleman: even more of a reason to resolve the issue
[04:24:55] <steleman> comay++
[04:24:56] <jbk> but basically everyone in ldap has access to every box
[04:25:21] <boyd> ah, yes, I've seen that gap.. pam_list goes a little way to helping there
[04:25:21] <jbk> that right there is potentially a huge issue for companies
[04:25:23] <wesolows> yes, you're looking for an integrated way to do what AD can do, per-host access control
[04:25:26] <steleman> jbk: not so if you use LDAP + Kerberos
[04:25:38] <jbk> boyd: a little bit
[04:25:49] <boyd> But it would be nice if the list could be in LDAP too
[04:25:58] <jbk> but it seems silly to have this nice, extensible, (possibly) highly available infrastructure
[04:26:06] <jbk> and not store that data in there
[04:26:10] <wesolows> perhaps what you ought to do is find out about the AD work and think about ways to unify LDAP + Kerberos (with or without AD) and get some decent management tools for this stuff.  Right now it's too damned difficult.
[04:26:22] <boyd> steleman: are you thinking of .k5login ?
[04:26:28] <jbk> wesolows: well that was sort of my plan
[04:26:31] <steleman> wesolows: OpenLDAP already integrates with Kerberos and SASL
[04:26:32] <boyd> wesolows: +100
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[04:26:36] <steleman> boyd: yes
[04:26:43] <boyd> It should be much more out-of-the-box
[04:26:44] <wesolows> steleman: Yes.  Can you set that up?  I sure as hell can't.
[04:26:45] <jbk> because setting up kerberos or ldap is a pain (pam.conf)
[04:26:49] <jbk> i want
[04:27:00] <jbk> setup-client server_hostname
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[04:27:08] <jbk> maybe enter an admin password
[04:27:10] <steleman> wesolows: it is a MAJOR PITA but yes i have seen it working (not set up by myself but i have seen it working perfectly on Solaris 8 at my previous employer)
[04:27:13] <boyd> It should be as easy to set up as AD is on windows.
[04:27:15] <jbk> and *poof* the system's setup
[04:27:20] <wesolows> pam.conf, Kerberos's giant configuration mess, SASL which no one understands, and the whole OpenLDAP is easy to set up but can't do account management problem.
[04:27:27] <jbk> steleman: i've not seen how kerberos can do per host authorization
[04:27:34] <wesolows> It's not a technology play, it's a management play.  I really want to see this done.
[04:27:58] <steleman> jbk: klogin/kinit simply do not grant tickets for specific hosts
[04:28:05] <wesolows> steleman: Exactly.  I think there are maybe 5 people alive today who know how to make SASL work.  That seems like, well, a little bit of a problem.
[04:28:20] <jbk> but setting up iplanet/sun one/sun java directory server is a pain...
[04:28:23] <boyd> They must not be allowed on the same aeroplane
[04:28:23] <wesolows> boyd: AD ain't exactly easy.  It's actually a royal pain too.  We can do much better.
[04:28:44] <boyd> wesolows: Hmm.. maybe I'm still thinking of the old NT4 Domain model
[04:28:47] <wesolows> jbk: Right.  So we need either to integrate and fix that (strip DS out of JES too) or get OpenLDAP working better.
[04:28:48] <steleman> wesolows: yes. but it's become a question of: how come we don't provide these things.
[04:28:53] <boyd> (which was a piece of cake)
[04:28:55] <wesolows> boyd: Right, NT4 was easy but brittle.
[04:28:56] <steleman> wesolows: it's just an easy target
[04:28:57] <wesolows> AD sucks.
[04:29:04] <jbk> partically i think because they require too much configuration info -- pick sane defaults that work, and allow those more technically minded to be able to override them
[04:29:12] <wesolows> steleman: I completely agree.  This problem needs to get fixed.
[04:29:14] <boyd> jbk: yes yes yes
[04:29:27] <boyd> More opinions, fewer decisions to make for those that don't care
[04:29:35] <jbk> well I like some of the stuff AD can do, i don't know that i like the implementation, and i've not looked enough at it to make a complete evaluation
[04:29:36] <boyd> Like the IPSec mess
[04:30:02] * boyd means opinions that the software has
[04:30:13] <jbk> well i was thinking of using opends -- the code seems a lot cleaner and easier to integrate than what i've seen of the netscape-based code (from looking at the RH DS)
[04:30:22] <wesolows> jbk: Have you been thinking about what underlying technologies (and especially programmatic interfaces, i.e. libraries) are needed to do the configuration?  Once that's in place one could burn ldapclient and the other shit and start doing sensible things with a nice interface.
[04:31:08] <boyd> jbk: Yes, OpenDS looks quite nice
[04:31:08] <wesolows> jbk: I think it's good to target a particular DS but we also should be thinking about how to make this work with existing environments.  Minimise the number of DS-side extensions needed, and where things require extensions do as much as we can without them.
[04:31:22] <Chipdancer> boyd: what's OpenDS' code history?
[04:31:35] <jbk> not yet -- at least on the client side, it'd really just be, tear out the manual configuration bit and put in a sane, default pam.conf
[04:31:38] <boyd> Chipdancer: Completely new implementation-from-scratch
[04:31:49] <jbk> instead of putting sysadmins through the horror of trying to figure it out
[04:31:56] <wesolows> jbk: We need a lot more.
[04:32:21] <jbk> the server config needs a _lot_ of work
[04:32:31] <boyd> Chipdancer: http://www.opends.org/
[04:32:35] <wesolows> jbk: We need to replace ldap_client_file and ldap_client cred, for starters.  And we need library interfaces that allow one to express these configuration directives on both the server and client side programmatically.
[04:32:46] * steleman posits that this would be a nice project to set up between opensolaris contributors and sun
[04:32:58] <wesolows> we're all opensolaris contributors here
[04:33:02] <wesolows> corporations don't write code
[04:33:11] <steleman> opensoalris contributors meaning !Sun
[04:33:16] <jbk> well some of that is being done by sparks i think, but other bits aren't
[04:33:32] <jbk> idsconfig needs to die though
[04:33:46] <wesolows> jbk: Right.  Write up your ideas, specifically.  Tell them what your goals are.  Get them to tell you exactly what they're working on.
[04:33:51] <steleman> quite frankly all the open source LDAP configuration management tools i have seen were pretty crappy
[04:33:59] <comay> idsconfig is just for the old, bundled ldap server bundled with (closed) solaris
[04:34:03] <wesolows> This is a really, really important area to improve.
[04:34:08] <jbk> i know :)
[04:34:52] <wesolows> steleman: Yes, they do suck.  Partly because they're very low level but also because it's too hard to express administrative intent with giant chunks of LDIF.
[04:35:08] <jbk> but figuring out the authorization bit is interesting
[04:35:11] <wesolows> And as jbk noted, it's also incomplete.
[04:35:52] <jbk> like, there is talk for at least the AD integration for doing bits to (for example) only make people members of certain unix groups on certain hosts -- to work with AD's group policy
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[04:36:54] <wesolows> If the Sparks guys aren't helpful or responsive, let me know.
[04:37:00] <kowi> http://www.pennergame.de/ref.php?uid=3954
[04:37:01] <wesolows> I have an active interest in seeing this improved.
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[04:38:13] *** wesolows sets mode: +b *!kowi@*.dip.t-dialin.net
[04:38:31] <steleman> that was quick and merciless :-)
[04:38:31] <jbk> well worst case, i've been thinking of just punting (in a manner of speaking) and writing a pam module that implements pam_sm_acct() and basically just connects to a remote server (or one from a list), sends hostname, user, tty, service, and then looks for a response
[04:38:44] <wesolows> steleman: die spammers!
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[04:39:20] <wesolows> jbk: Please don't give up and do a half-assed solution.  This kind of integration is only useful if it's thorough and comprehensive.
[04:39:34] * boyd can't believe he clicked
[04:39:37] <axisys> jbk: hey u know of any site that reviewed/wrote/compared OCFS w/ other options like sun cluster?
[04:39:48] <jbk> axisys: nope
[04:41:08] * lloy0076 sigh
[04:41:11] <lloy0076> That was fun.
[04:41:20] <jbk> but what i have been thinking was basically having the concept of roles (not to be confused with RBAC roles) that are assigned to servers and users
[04:41:30] <lloy0076> My Gnome just CRAPPED itself, I had to get rid of .gconf* and reboot before JDS decided it was a desktop again.
[04:41:38] <jbk> ability to login is then merely making sure server_roles U user_roles is not null
[04:43:57] <jbk> if you add the ability for users or hosts to inherit roles by virtue of their location (i.e. roles is whatever is explicitly assigned + whatever their parent nodes have assigned), it cover most of the scenarios I can think of
[04:45:02] <lloy0076> I want an RBAC which can determine if the users are lusers and/or stupid and deny them access if they are :(
[04:47:01] <jbk> now i just need to find the time to do all this :)
[04:48:04] <jbk> it's much more interesting than my day job :)
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[04:58:12] <Tempt> boyd: Spam victim! Say, wanna buy some random blue coloured pills?
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[05:03:07] <boyd> Stinkin' herbal viagra!
[05:04:07] <Tempt> EAT PILLS FOR GREAT HONOUR
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[05:12:39] <Tempt> hey
[05:12:55] <Tempt> since <table ..> is apparently evil in HTML these days, what are people meant to use for tables?
[05:13:16] <boyd> <table> is fine when you actually have a table to present.
[05:13:28] <boyd> it's the use of table for page layout that's frowned on
[05:13:43] <Tempt> Aah, okay. I thought the current trend was just to hate tables for being tables.
[05:14:05] <boyd> There may be some who hole that position because they don't understand the reasons...
[05:14:11] <boyd> like some people and GOTO
[05:14:16] <Tempt> Mmm, GOTO
[05:14:19] <Tempt> Good ol' GOTO
[05:14:33] * dlg hug goto
[05:14:44] <Tempt> 10 PRINT "I love GOTO!"
[05:14:45] <Tempt> 20 GOTO 10
[05:14:48] <g4lt-mordant> GOTO + tcsh FTW ;P
[05:14:48] <Tempt> ;-)
[05:14:49] <bda> I hate Linux so much.
[05:14:53] <dlg> 10 SIN
[05:14:54] <dlg> 20 GOTO HELL
[05:15:15] <boyd> Syntax error on line 20
[05:15:18] <bda> "MySQL keeps desyncing and dying on this box." "Why?" "The disks are fully utilized." "By what?" "I don't see anything obvious." "Can you tell what process is generatng the most I/O?"
[05:15:19] <dlg> :(
[05:15:36] * bda shakes fists at sky.
[05:15:40] <boyd> bda: Why yes, yes I can.
[05:15:43] <Tempt> CAN HAS DTRACE PLEEZ?
[05:15:45] <Tempt> muahahahhaha.
[05:15:58] <bda> boyd: Tell me your secret, squirrel-man!
[05:16:03] <bda> Or is the DOOM TUBE for you!
[05:16:21] <boyd> Well, I can tell on *my* box, but not on linux...
[05:16:31] <bda> Right. See my comment at 23:14.
[05:16:40] <jamesd> bmc  answers all your dtrace questions  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8002801113289007228
[05:16:41] <bda> I am bemoaning my lack of iotop.d right now.
[05:16:43] <boyd> I know.. I was just gloating
[05:16:58] <bda> boyd: Oh, I have other systems with fully of tasty dtrace, doubt it not.
[05:17:22] <bda> Just not here. Like the Twinkie is full of indescribable white creamy stuff, I am full of despair.
[05:17:26] <bda> Creamy, creamy despair.
[05:17:35] * lloy0076 faint
[05:17:38] * boyd feels mild disgust.
[05:17:43] <g4lt-mordant> the whipped lard of despair
[05:17:44] <Doc> indescribable despair?
[05:18:12] <flyingparchment> bda: since when does busy disks crash mysql? :)
[05:18:20] <lloy0076> flyingparchment: LOL
[05:18:26] <lloy0076> flyingparchment: You'd be surprised what crashes MySQL.
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[05:19:50] <bda> flyingparchment: uh.
[05:19:59] <bda> flyingparchment: Synce I am using safe InnoDB settings?
[05:20:08] <bda> Er. Since.
[05:20:13] <bda> ha ha synce.
[05:20:14] <Tempt> 'safe'
[05:20:15] <Tempt> 'innodb'
[05:20:18] <Tempt> Get Oracle already
[05:20:21] <bda> Tempt: Silence your noise-tube!
[05:20:28] <flyingparchment> bda: that would make it slower, not crash it
[05:20:29] * dlg cry
[05:20:31] <dlg> today is awful
[05:20:32] <lloy0076> I'm landed with working with a MySQL cluster.
[05:20:33] <dlg> i hate tomcat
[05:20:38] <lloy0076> Trust me, it's awful.
[05:20:50] <Tempt> Blame MySQL, Blame MySQL, it isn't even a real database anyway ...
[05:20:53] <bda> flyingparchment: Until it becomes desync'd and is unable to write relay log and then goes "I am going to stop my replica thread now."
[05:21:00] <bda> Which is actually better than usual.
[05:21:08] <flyingparchment> bda: why would it become desynced?
[05:21:08] * purserj points lloy0076 at Stewart Smith, he's a Mysql cluster dev
[05:21:17] <bda> "I am going to stop my replica thread but not tell you. I will continue to say it is on, but it is a lie."
[05:21:21] <lloy0076> OMG
[05:21:35] <bda> flyingparchment: How long have you used MySQL replication?
[05:21:38] <bda> For serially?
[05:21:46] <flyingparchment> bda: a few years
[05:22:10] <bda> Did you sell your soul to a cloven-hooved man with funny eyes?
[05:22:47] <lloy0076> bda: He did, but he then found he was a transexual from Transyvania.
[05:22:59] <lloy0076> (that place from the Rocky Horror Show)
[05:23:36] <bda> Damnit, Janet!
[05:23:46] <Doc> Transvestite
[05:24:01] <Doc> they were from "Transexual, Transylvania"
[05:24:23] <g4lt-mordant> I know you're quivering with antici
[05:24:34] <boyd> ....... pation
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[05:35:20] <nachox> off to sleep :)
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[05:35:42] <FrostCS> sounds about that time here as well :-)
[05:36:08] <FrostCS> nite all
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[05:38:28] <millhouse> hey
[05:43:05] <millhouse> how often does ZFS flush data from cache to disk?
[05:44:32] <jamesd> every 5 seconds or as needed by default
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[05:49:32] <millhouse> ah ok
[05:50:22] <dwc-> bda: hm, why do you have so much disk i/o
[05:50:23] <jamesd> if the app or you calls  sync or fsync the chages are written to disk automaticly
[05:50:34] <millhouse> it's for a file server (iscsi/zfs)
[05:50:40] <Tempt> ha
[05:50:43] <Tempt> iscsi
[05:50:46] <dwc-> you might want to look at what your database is actually doing
[05:51:02] <dwc-> take a look at 'mytop', turn on the slow query log
[05:51:15] <millhouse> earlier we were running into issues where we'd be copying files over and it'd stop responding for long periods of time, I believe because it was flushing the data to disk
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[05:51:46] <bda> dwc-: The database was halted. All other services were also halted.
[05:51:51] <bda> No, it wasn't any of that. It wasn't even I/O.
[05:52:00] <Tempt> I found UFS won on performance for long, long sequential writes.
[05:52:01] <bda> The kernel is old, and not patched to work properly with iostat.
[05:52:07] <bda> No, it was reiserfs.
[05:52:15] <bda> Which, frankly, should have been my first suspect.
[05:52:16] <dwc-> oh, reiser. well. uh.
[05:52:20] <bda> Yes.
[05:52:21] <bda> I know.
[05:52:22] <Tempt> bda: Get your penguins out of here!
[05:52:27] <dwc-> is your data still there, or did reiser kill it?
[05:52:34] <dwc-> take the seat out of its car
[05:52:34] <bda> Tempt: I keep trying to fire them into the sun, but the BUTTON KEEP STICKING.
[05:52:38] <sle> *cough*
[05:52:39] <Tempt> Reiser doesn't kill your data, only his wife
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[05:52:52] <bda> Heh.
[05:52:53] <Tempt> bda: 12-gauge?
[05:52:58] <bda> No, the launch button.
[05:53:06] <Tempt> No, get a 12-gauge
[05:53:08] <Tempt> or an axe
[05:53:11] <bda> Oh. Right.
[05:53:16] <Tempt> Remember.
[05:53:17] <bda> I'd rather get an X2100 M2.
[05:53:20] <Tempt> If you want it done right ...
[05:53:21] <bda> And Solaris.
[05:53:22] <Tempt> ... do it yourself.
[05:53:25] <Tempt> (with Solaris)
[05:53:25] <dwc-> try xfs or ext3
[05:53:28] <dwc-> should work better
[05:53:44] <dwc-> though it sounds like you need to upgrade the whole machine
[05:53:47] <bda> Yes.
[05:53:48] <Tempt> Yeah
[05:53:49] <Tempt> Get rid of Linux
[05:53:57] * gn00b just successfully installed fedora7 and vmware with solaris 10. can't get solaris to add a user.
[05:54:12] <dwc-> Tempt: so hostile and fanatical. kinda like a stereotypical linux user
[05:54:18] <bda> dwc-: Most other places are already Linux 2.6 and XFS where they cannot be Solaris.
[05:54:21] <Tempt> This is #opensolaris - a penguin free zone.
[05:54:41] <bda> This site is just problematic. :)
[05:55:05] <Gman> quack.
[05:55:12] <bda> moo!
[05:55:12] <Gman> (do penguins quack?)
[05:56:13] <dwc-> bda: you don't even have 2.6? what are they running? redhat 7.1 or something? :)
[05:56:29] <dwc-> even our redhat 9 boxes had 2.6 ...
[05:56:42] <bda> dwc-: A hacked up version of Debian 3.1 with a highly customized (for no reason) kernel.
[05:57:00] <flyingparchment> "highly customised for no reason" - how very Linux ;-)
[05:57:09] <bda> I have had very mixed results with upgrading to 2.6 on these systems.
[05:57:24] <bda> Which is to say, my test vms all go 2.4->2.6 pretty happily, but these boxes just explode.
[05:57:31] <dwc-> debian, I'm surprised
[05:57:33] <bda> udev/devfs crap.
[05:57:38] * dwc- nods
[05:57:47] <jamesd> gn00b, http://uadmin.blogspot.com/2005/02/youre-never-far-from-home.html
[05:58:06] <dwc-> either etch, or sarge with their 2.6 kernel should be fine
[05:58:26] <bda> dwc-: For some value of "fine" that leaves them in an unbootable state for reasons I have yet to ascertain, I'm afraid.
[05:58:30] <dwc-> but if you choose to use your own, you're sorta on your own
[05:58:31] <bda> The last time I was on-site I made the attempt. :)
[05:58:40] <bda> Legacy.
[05:58:43] <bda> This is an inherited mess.
[05:58:47] <lloy0076> Is ksh93 vs bash considered flame bait, or religious wars?
[05:59:29] <bda> (Which is not much of an excuse, but it's what I've got.)
[05:59:32] <Gman> an introduction
[05:59:39] <dwc-> bda: it's understandable
[06:00:01] <dwc-> I've had plenty of uh, legacy ... cruft. to deal with for awhile before it can finally get tossed
[06:00:17] <CIA-21> mh27603: 6567055 Toshiba Tecra M5 not returning _PSS when dual core enabled, 6595101 Change in CPU max power should be NOTICE not WARNING
[06:01:24] <bda> dwc-: The vast majority of the other cruft has been replaced with shiny, maintainable things.
[06:01:39] <bda> This site is hours away, I have no easy mode of transit, blah blah blah.
[06:02:00] <bda> Soon I will build a pod of Sun boxes and hitchhike up there with a scary old man who insists I hold his dentures for him.
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[06:03:09] <sle> 21:00 < dwc-> I've had plenty of uh, legacy ... cruft. to deal with for awhile before it can finally get tossed
[06:03:14] <sle> sorta like NIS+
[06:03:38] <Gman> brendang, seen http://www.getfirebug.com/ ?
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[06:05:18] <Tempt> a pod of Sun boxes
[06:05:37] <Tempt> Does the pod open and give birth to an army of drones?
[06:05:44] <bda> No, an army of zones.
[06:06:06] <Tempt> boom-tish
[06:09:39] <bda> Hey, you left the door locked. I jsut broke in through the kitchen window and used your toothbrush.
[06:09:43] <bda> btw u r out of bactine
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[06:20:07] <WickedWicky> morning
[06:20:31] <Tempt> Mornin'
[06:20:40] <WickedWicky> ey :D
[06:21:10] <WickedWicky> nothing better than getting woken up by a phone call from night shift
[06:21:26] <bda> Getting woken up by an automated system is "better".
[06:21:37] <WickedWicky> lol
[06:21:44] <bda> Because it's just a system bitching. No one else shares your pain.
[06:21:51] <WickedWicky> at least I get to talk to a real person "good morning patrick, sorry to call you but....'
[06:21:58] <Tempt> electrodes on the toes and a timer plugged into the wall
[06:22:03] <Tempt> that's what I call a wake up
[06:22:07] <g4lt-mordant> bda, have it talk to your answering machinee ;P
[06:22:12] <bda> Yes. My monitoring systems never empthasize with me.
[06:22:18] <bda> They just complain and demand things.
[06:22:32] <bda> All the tedious parts of being in a relationship!
[06:24:15] <bda> Shit. Empathise. I can't even spell it anymore.
[06:24:38] <WickedWicky> it's that far in the relation already eh :(
[06:25:18] <bda> Yeah, well. Ten years on... you get kinda bored. Start looking at other architectures.
[06:25:24] <bda> Wondering what they'd look like running different OSes...
[06:26:02] <WickedWicky> then they start asking for gucci
[06:26:06] <WickedWicky> oh no wait, that was my ex
[06:26:24] <WickedWicky> buy a sparcstation 20
[06:26:27] <WickedWicky> rock solid
[06:26:30] <WickedWicky> doesnt wake you up
[06:26:38] <WickedWicky> and requires not much to be happy and make you happy
[06:26:58] <bda> Heh.
[06:27:15] <g4lt-mordant> it still needs an anchor watch
[06:27:45] <WickedWicky> an SS20 needs love
[06:28:10] <WickedWicky> but you spoiled guys all want blade 2Ks , nobody understands the ss20 anymore, I do though!
[06:28:15] * WickedWicky hugs pebbles
[06:28:23] <bda> "pebbles", eh?
[06:28:29] <WickedWicky> that's how I called the ss20 :P
[06:28:46] <WickedWicky> potentialy its a 512MB memory 4 way supersparc 200mhz
[06:28:52] <WickedWicky> how can anyone call that a brick?!
[06:29:02] <bda> "Do I look fat in this chassis?"
[06:29:14] <WickedWicky> "no you dont"
[06:29:25] <WickedWicky> (said within 3ms or you're screwed)
[06:29:39] <bda> "Yes, I do! My data busses keep getting bigger and you never say anything about it! I don't even think you CARE anymore!"
[06:29:52] <bda> This is starting to creep even me out a little.
[06:29:58] <WickedWicky> kol
[06:30:15] <WickedWicky> sounds like you heard it before a bit too often
[06:30:28] <bda> naw.
[06:30:37] <WickedWicky> oh wait. automated wake ups..
[06:30:38] <Tempt> It's the price you pay for taking the cover off
[06:30:41] <Tempt> (apparently)
[06:30:43] <bda> ha.
[06:31:03] <bobbyz> Quick question, does the ndis wrapper for solaris work with wpa-psk networks?  I was thinking about installing solaris on my lappy, but it's got a piece o' poo broadcom card
[06:31:22] <WickedWicky> be right back ppl
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[06:31:35] <Tempt> He needed to reboot his SS20
[06:31:55] <bda> OS X's single-threaded I/O makes me so happy.
[06:32:20] <bda> It's like, all the power of UNIX, except for the useful multitasky thingies.
[06:35:48] <Tempt> Single user UNIX
[06:36:09] <Tempt> Who needs I/O when you can have desktop caaaandy
[06:36:23] <bda> So. Lickable. Must. Purchase.
[06:36:30] <bda> It's actually much better in Leopard.
[06:36:57] <bda> Though if that's because they've actually fixed the problem, or because they did even more insane proactive caching magic, I do not know.
[06:38:41] <dwc-> just as long as they didn't get to the over-aggressive-linux-swapping-out-mysqld-for-a-larger-disk-cache-caching stage
[06:39:05] <Tempt> But Linux is always the correct model.
[06:39:08] <Tempt> Don't ever forget that.
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[06:39:28] <dwc-> hey, at least you can tell it how aggressive to be now
[06:40:14] <bda> echo "superangry" > /proc/sys/kernel/max-aggro
[06:40:36] <jbk> speaking of which, over the past year or so, i've caught subtle hints about some possible VM changes in solaris.. anyone know anything about that (and can speak about it)?
[06:42:04] <bda> Sun marketing ninjas have just been dispatched to your location. Please do not resist. The shuriken being embedded into your headmeats is purely for customer satisfaction purposes.
[06:42:41] <lloy0076> jbk: It's being replaced by Window's VM because the Linux license isn't compatible.
[06:42:44] * lloy0076 ducks for cover
[06:42:50] <jbk> :)
[06:43:18] <jbk> i'm just curious.. i've now seen references to 'VM 2.0' and 'when we replace the current VM implementation'
[06:43:19] <dwc-> didn't think the windows license was either ...
[06:44:08] <jbk> it just seems like something i'm sure more people would be curious to hear about vs. 'here you go *dump*'
[06:44:45] * lloy0076 wonders how ridiculously expensive Barcelona based AMD systems will be in Australia
[06:45:05] <jbk> i've been debating getting a new system, but keep putting it off
[06:45:28] <g4lt-mordant> jbk you ought to know better opensolaris is "we'll bee just transparent enough to provide you with a hope that you'll see mor, then clam up"
[06:46:35] <dlg> so cynical
[06:46:45] <lloy0076> jbk: At home I'm now running an Intel Core 2 Quad system; it's quite nice but when I'm using the IO subsystem a lot (live upgrade, zone creation and such), I can get quite bad "lag". I don't remember getting that lag using an AMD X2 4200+ system.
[06:47:15] <lloy0076> Then again, my X2 4200+ might not have been fast enough to use the disks enough to cause lag.
[06:48:02] <g4lt-mordant> dlg nope, not cynical enough
[06:48:09] <jbk> well the thing is, i want mirrored drives, hvm support, at least 3 nics (either onboard or w/ pci slot), decent gfx, that will 1) be supported on opensolaris, 2) not double my power bill
[06:49:18] <jbk> or make my apartment feel like a sauna
[06:49:29] <jbk> i'm not convinced such a config exists yet...
[06:49:54] <lloy0076> jbk: Well, if AMD's marketing hype is to be believed, Barcelona might deliver some of that.
[06:49:59] <flyingparchment> 3 nics you can do with 2-/4-port single nic
[06:50:18] <flyingparchment> decent graphics are available onboard now too (intel stuff)
[06:50:20] <jbk> flyingparchment: it still seems finding supported nic drivers is a bit of a black art
[06:50:35] <jbk> apparently realtek is popular, but has spotty support issues
[06:50:36] <flyingparchment> jbk: try Intel, iirc their multi-ports nics are supported with the normal e1000g driver
[06:50:51] <flyingparchment> (costs a bit though)
[06:50:55] <jbk> and sata chipsets still seem to be a crapshoot
[06:51:21] <flyingparchment> yeah.  well i think AHCI went in recently.
[06:51:28] <flyingparchment> which is what intel sata uses i think
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[06:53:18] <jbk> i'm trying to avoid intel, but seems likely that won't be possible :(
[06:53:55] <jbk> (i've just heard too many horror stories about how they treat their people)
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[07:01:05] <brendang> Gman: yep - I've used Firebug before, its not bad
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[07:01:33] <brendang> Gman: and serves a nice role for JavaScript orientated debugging
[07:01:50] <Gman> brendang, ok, just wondering how their resources foo related to dtrace javascript probes
[07:02:32] <brendang> Gman: they are replacing the interface to libmozjs
[07:02:45] <brendang> Gman: as a shim (I imagine)
[07:02:56] <brendang> Gman: DTrace instruments existing libmozjs
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[07:03:20] <brendang> Gman: which doesn't matter if they are telling you the same performance info, :)
[07:03:29] <Gman> ahr
[07:04:42] <brendang> Gman: our team (and others) were running into performance issues that tools like Firebug don't help with much,
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[07:05:12] <brendang> Gman: such as intrumenting garbage collect, and how JavaScript interacts with the system
[07:06:39] <Tempt> Badly.
[07:06:47] <Tempt> That's how JavaScript interacts with anything.
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[07:07:38] <brendang> Gman: so in the short term, people may use tool likes Firebug and Venkman because they are easy, and the DTrace probes when they have to. In the future, I hope tools like Firebug actually use DTrace.
[07:08:01] <Gman> brendang, that's what i wondered, thanks ;)
[07:08:12] <brendang> Gman: no worries
[07:08:17] <Gman> the reference came from a gnome blogger who said it was leet
[07:08:27] <Gman> (i haven't personally used it)
[07:08:34] <Gman> so good to get a perspective
[07:08:36] <Tempt> l33t.
[07:09:00] <Gman> it's the type of thing i'd love to see easily available in network repositories (though firefox plugin foo makes things easy)
[07:09:01] <Tempt> Firebug has a useful role to play. Has been helpful a few times.
[07:09:21] <brendang> Gman: it is pretty, and also very powerful for pre-DTrace standards.
[07:09:45] <Tempt> brendang: And FireBug runs on anything that runs FireFox.
[07:10:14] <brendang> Tempt: true. we haven't put DTrace in all OSes... yet...
[07:10:33] <flyingparchment> simple solution to that: make all OSs Solaris
[07:10:37] <Gman> brendang, i'm intrigued by brian's comment at the end of the google video about a new port ;)
[07:10:50] <Tempt> And you won't have dtrace in Windows or Linux
[07:10:51] <jbk> heh
[07:11:11] <brendang> Gman: woah - you have seen that already? :)
[07:11:12] <jbk> i was slightly intrigued about the wall st. comment...
[07:11:26] <jbk> i'm just curious if there was a specific customer he had in mind...
[07:11:41] <Tempt> And I'd suggest at least 75% of web types are crunching away on their javascript with Windows/Linux
[07:11:46] <Gman> brendang, brian's talk? sure - was also amused about the audience linus got compared to bmc ;)
[07:12:09] <brendang> Gman: I haven't seen the linux talk yet..
[07:12:22] <Gman> it was a little underwhelming unfortunately
[07:12:47] <Gman> jbk, i suspect it's all of them
[07:12:52] <jbk> well
[07:12:57] <jbk> unfortunately, it's not where i'm at :(
[07:13:06] <Gman> nod
[07:13:34] <jbk> the entire business unit is planning to throw everything out they have now with one uber app running on linux (assuming it'll actually run)
[07:13:52] <jbk> mostly because the people came from goldman sachs, which apparently feels linux is going to take over the world
[07:13:57] <brendang> Tempt: you can DTrace JavaScript on Solaris to fix the bugs on Linux...
[07:14:04] <bda> haha.
[07:14:11] <bda> brendang: Oh, that hurts.
[07:14:18] <jbk> however, i did see some stuff about another competitor that did a mass migration solaris->linux->solaris
[07:14:28] <jbk> hence my curiousity
[07:14:49] <Gman> jbk, i still think linux has the same problems as solaris has the same problems with xen and vmware
[07:15:01] <Gman> the update management is still hard ;)
[07:15:21] <bda> Cobbler is supposed to fix that.
[07:15:24] <jbk> well hopefully zfs will be a big part of the solution
[07:15:25] <bda> We Shall See.
[07:15:49] <bda> Unless I misunderstood.
[07:15:50] <Gman> jbk, yeah, certainly potentially interesting if solaris is the underlying host
[07:16:46] <jbk> i mentioned my desire for a new system, part of it, is i want to be able to do solaris, windows, and whatever else (fbsd, linux, etc.) under xen, with solaris + zfs managing the storage
[07:17:05] <jbk> through a combination of zvols, iscsi, or nfs/cifs (for shared bits)
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[07:45:49] <e^ipi> ugh... tuition is expensive
[07:46:06] <e^ipi> & i don't qualify for starbucks tuition reimbursement this semester
[07:48:21] <Tempt> starbucks tuition reimbursement?
[07:48:35] <Bartman007> Tempt: corporate plug
[07:48:48] <Tempt> They pay for your tuition in venti lattes?
[07:48:51] * delewis gets most of his tuition from the state lottery
[07:48:57] <Bartman007> they can afford it by robbing the college students that work for them.
[07:49:32] <e^ipi> Bartman007: I get paid $1/hr over minimum to start, so *shurg* i don't feel i'm getting robbed
[07:50:08] <e^ipi> every other job that i'm likely to get given my availability pays minimum wage
[07:50:37] <delewis> in Tennessee, if you start college immediately after college graduation and have a certain, minimal ACT score, you can get as much as $6,000-$10,000/yr in tuition.
[07:50:46] <delewis> s/college/secondary school/
[07:50:54] <e^ipi> regardless, i was annoyed by my tuition bill & I went to see if I qualify for my employers' tuition reimbursement, and as it turns out, i do not
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[07:51:26] <Bartman007> e^ipi: ah, so you do have to work there to get it...
[07:51:41] <e^ipi> yes, they don't just give out free money
[07:51:54] <delewis> and the particular university I attend doubles whatever the state gives out from the lottery scholarship.
[07:52:21] <e^ipi> delewis: so not one of those "i'll win the lottery to pay for school" things?
[07:52:34] <Bartman007> e^ipi: around here they tend to abuse the college students by deliberately scheduling shifts during school hours during midterms/finals (after the first 4-6 months of employment)
[07:52:43] <delewis> e^ipi: no, the profits the state receives from the lottery, itself, are used for a state-wide scholarship program.
[07:52:51] <e^ipi> that's quite cool actually
[07:53:00] <e^ipi> about the lottery thing, not about the shift thing
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[07:53:41] <e^ipi> Bartman007: my manager does the schedule... she knows well enough that university comes  first, so she avoids that very behavior
[07:55:39] <delewis> I just can't wait for December to be here, as that's when I'll be done with school.
[07:56:23] <Tempt> e^ipi: Thinking about the Classe 6 E, 2 group compact
[07:56:27] <Tempt> e^ipi: http://www.rancilio.it/rancilio/prod_version.jsp?id_language=2&id_version=26&id_model=20&id_category=2
[07:56:44] <oninoshiko> so your classes are paid with the math tax?
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[07:57:58] <delewis> oninoshiko: partially, if you're referring to the lottery scholarship I mentioned.
[07:58:25] <e^ipi> Tempt: nice
[07:58:37] * oninoshiko maintains that the lottery is a tax on the inability to do math
[07:58:46] <e^ipi> do you tend to pull that much espresso at one time?
[07:59:05] <delewis> it takes care of about 2/3s of my tuition per year (along with the university's additions to it -- they'll give you an equal amount of money or what you're getting from the lottery schol.)
[07:59:31] <delewis> s/or/of/
[08:00:18] <delewis> oninoshiko: most people don't know how to calculate expected values, but I suspect they'd still play the lottery if they knew what the expected value was, even.
[08:00:21] <delewis> :-)
[08:00:22] <CIA-21> qz150045: 6590903 X is not notified when the keyboard layout is changed by 'kbd -s'
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[08:01:41] <Tempt> e^ipi: That's actually smaller than my current machine
[08:01:54] <Tempt> e^ipi: 5L boiler, my current machine as a 12L (which I don't need)
[08:02:59] <delewis> Tempt: I assume you've read the p510/510q redpaper?
[08:03:12] <delewis> might make your suffering for it worse, though. :-)
[08:03:28] <e^ipi> I'm still looking for the particular Solis unpressurized portafilter for my little barista machine
[08:04:09] <Tempt> delewis: Oh, not yet.
[08:04:15] <Tempt> delewis: Reading the specs was enough!
[08:04:23] <delewis> Tempt: > 50pg pdf. :-)
[08:04:28] <delewis> I'll put it up on my web server.
[08:04:36] * delewis has most of the redpapers in his docs/
[08:04:49] <Tempt> e^ipi: I had a play with the three group version of that shiny Rancilio at a cafe down the road last week
[08:04:55] <Tempt> e^ipi: Very, very nice.
[08:05:22] <delewis> http://24.176.104.6/~dlewis/p5_510_and_510q_technical_overview.pdf
[08:05:28] <Tempt> delewis: Cheers!
[08:05:49] <asyd> .S 13
[08:05:52] <asyd> oups
[08:05:53] <asyd> \_o<
[08:06:01] <delewis> having fun with *roff, I take it? :-)
[08:06:48] <e^ipi> Tempt: they just let you wander in the back and play with the espresso machine?
[08:07:49] <Tempt> e^ipi: Sure. The guy that owns the place loves talking coffee.
[08:07:58] <Tempt> delewis: Quite a nice looking machine too
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[08:08:16] <oninoshiko> im perfectly happy letting someone else make it for me, provided it comes out right
[08:08:49] <oninoshiko> which is not as common as id like -.-
[08:09:19] <delewis> Tempt: yep, I'm considering upgrading getting a second box to replace my POWER3 system. Probably have to wait until I find work, though.
[08:09:51] <Tempt> delewis: You can hang out on mine until you get your own
[08:10:13] <Tempt> delewis: With that amount of CPU power I doubt it'll be very loaded, should be plenty of time for everyone.
[08:10:25] <delewis> it'd be extremely nice to have a system that's capable of LPARs/DLPARs for the second half of CATE (pSeries/AIX engineer certifications)
[08:10:34] <delewis> which is basically all virtualization stuff.
[08:10:41] <delewis> Tempt: sweet.
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[08:11:33] <WickedWicky> \o/
[08:11:34] <Tempt> I think I'll probably end up rolling it into colo and replace two of my sun machines
[08:11:42] <WickedWicky> \\o o// <o/ \o> <o> \o/
[08:11:48] <delewis> did you get a 2- or 4-core model?
[08:11:55] <Tempt> 2
[08:12:03] <delewis> you know you can't upgrade, right? :-)
[08:12:04] <Tempt> Costs a LOT more for the 510Q
[08:12:07] <delewis> yep.
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[08:12:22] <Tempt> This is coming out of my pocket, it isn't worth the price difference.
[08:12:24] <delewis> unfortunately the processor board is physically attached to the system planar.
[08:12:44] <delewis> no doubt to discourage upgrading and initial adoption of the 4-core models.
[08:12:53] <Tempt> I'm already organising the additional RAM for it
[08:13:03] <Tempt> Ordering it with 2Gb - already got more sticks on the way to get it to 16
[08:13:28] <delewis> nice. Mind giving me an LPAR with a gig or so? :-)
[08:13:36] <Tempt> Sounds reasonable
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[08:19:01] * Tempt is listening to Aphex Twin and simultaneously reading p510 red book and fixing klunky shell scripts.
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[08:21:26] <mbalmer> Tempt has a strange mixture...
[08:22:37] * WickedWicky is listening to MC Hammer - Can't touch this
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[08:30:37] <WickedWicky> morning richlowe
[08:35:36] <dlg> ola mbalmer
[08:36:39] <mbalmer> hi david...
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[08:37:07] <dlg> hows it going?
[08:37:47] <boyd> WickedWicky: Thanks for getting that song in my head
[08:38:12] <mbalmer> pbly to early for serious work...;)
[08:38:26] * dlg agree
[08:38:43] <dlg> did you get a solaris installed yet?
[08:39:01] <mbalmer> sure.
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[08:39:09] <mbalmer> two, actually.
[08:39:22] <dlg> cool
[08:39:25] <dlg> what do you think so far?
[08:39:46] <mbalmer> outdated Motif version, inferior installer.
[08:40:03] <mbalmer> lacks important stuff like cvs...
[08:40:04] * dlg laugh
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[08:40:14] <delewis> what version did you install?
[08:40:25] <mbalmer> nv-b70-x86
[08:41:11] <delewis> the install worked, though, didn't it?
[08:42:31] <e^ipi> it's not about it /working/, it's about it looking pretty
[08:42:53] <dlg> i dont think his comment referred to how the installer looked so much
[08:45:01] <ofu> would my zpool automatically grow if i replaced both sides of a mirror with larger drives?
[08:45:10] <delewis> it certainly wasn't about functionality, as the installer does what it should. installing.
[08:46:06] <richlowe> e^ipi: right now, with 70, you have the choice between "useful" and "sensible"
[08:46:26] <mbalmer> delewis, yes, the installier worked and the stuff got installed.
[08:46:32] <e^ipi> i've not used 70's installer
[08:46:38] <flyingparchment> 70 has a new installer?
[08:46:42] <delewis> mbalmer: then what more could you ask for?
[08:47:08] <e^ipi> as soon as I heard dwarf caiman would auto-layout your slices, i decided to burn a copy of 69 and just use that plus LU from now on
[08:47:13] <mbalmer> it sure looks nice, but I would like to setup my disks myself.
[08:47:26] <delewis> should you actually use your installation, that'll be one of the few times you'll need to install.
[08:47:27] <e^ipi> the hell I'm gonna let some defaults pick what my drives look like
[08:47:29] <Triskelios> flyingparchment: yes, the SXDE mode installer is dwarf caiman and missing some features
[08:48:03] <richlowe> "some"
[08:48:08] * lloy0076 hmmm
[08:48:13] <lloy0076> I forgot 70 has a new installer.
[08:48:17] <delewis> it's probably less bloated because of that.
[08:48:26] <richlowe> lloy0076: it's not entirely worth thinking about.
[08:48:45] <Triskelios> mbalmer: SXCE ships with Mercurial and Subversion
[08:48:49] <richlowe> though I guess it may in theory let you upgrade, this time.
[08:48:52] <richlowe> Triskelios: neither of which are CVS
[08:49:13] <flyingparchment> cvs package at sunfreeware.com works fine
[08:49:22] <richlowe> as fine as cvs ever did, anyway.
[08:49:23] <mbalmer> sure.
[08:50:11] <Triskelios> e^ipi: um, you should've just installed in SXCE mode. the regular installer is still there
[08:51:26] <mbalmer> for now it is no problem, playing with it only.  but I find it a strange concept to auto-layout everything in a serious OS.  I would expect that from Windows, but not from a Unix.
[08:51:50] <richlowe> mbalmer: that installer is specific to "Developer Edition", which is a fucking stupid idea in the first place.
[08:51:51] <delewis> mbalmer: you obviously haven't used anything 'serious'
[08:51:56] <richlowe> mbalmer: so the fact the installer is crippled should be no real surprise
[08:52:11] <richlowe> mbalmer: if you want true hilarity, get snv_69, which had the old, crippled, installer.
[08:52:18] <richlowe> mbalmer: (the normally installer, with all the features cut out of it in a hurry)
[08:52:21] <WickedWicky> looks to me, and dont take any offence in this, like they pushed a developement installer into a community release to have tests done and get user experience's feedback
[08:52:41] <lloy0076> heh
[08:52:42] <WickedWicky> they made the DE installer the default one even
[08:52:44] <palowoda> Yeah I tried the new installer upgraded 69->70.  Didn't work.  Gave me an error "Invalid Cluster" whatever that means.  The regular upgrade worked.
[08:52:45] <delewis> WickedWicky: that is the point of Nevada.
[08:52:48] <lloy0076> Great - the installer automagically trashes yer hard drives :P
[08:53:00] <Triskelios> WickedWicky: SXDE was always the default
[08:53:12] <Bartman007> WickedWicky: isn't that what the community is for?
[08:53:26] <WickedWicky> well ya but some basic testing would have been nice before integration
[08:53:27] <Tempt> anyone have a Solaris 8/SPARC machine with Studio installed and the kindness to give me a shell account?
[08:53:52] <Triskelios> WickedWicky: it's explicitly not supposed to be a replacement for the regular installer
[08:53:55] <mbalmer> delewis, right, opensolaris is my first experience with a Unix like operating system.
[08:54:00] <WickedWicky> Tempt: no, I am looking for a Studio compiler where CC will execute on a non sparcv8+
[08:54:03] <delewis> Tempt: dclarke would probably be the one to ask.
[08:54:11] * mbalmer is being sarcastic a bit ...
[08:54:19] <delewis> mlh_: UNIX-like? it *is* UNIX.
[08:54:40] <delewis> and there are several UNIXes that do auto-layouts. AIX is one of them.
[08:54:54] <Triskelios> Tempt: why Sol 8?
[08:55:04] <Tempt> Need to build binaries
[08:55:05] <bobbyz> autolayout as an option seems fine, just so long as it isn't mandatory
[08:55:18] <e^ipi> mbalmer: Solaris is one of the only 4 operating systems that are still UNIX
[08:55:25] <flyingparchment> the problem with auto-layout in the old installer is that it was fairly braindead
[08:55:26] <Tempt> What's the fourth?
[08:55:34] <e^ipi> ( others being AIX, HPUX, and OSX leopard )
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[08:55:46] <flyingparchment> e^ipi: OpenServer and UnixWare aren't Unix?
[08:55:59] <e^ipi> flyingparchment: not UNIX03 anyways
[08:56:12] <flyingparchment> oh, that kind of unix
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[08:56:30] <flyingparchment> i find it silly that something can stop being used without changing because the trademark changed ;-)
[08:56:57] <Tempt> IRIX
[08:56:59] <Tempt> You forgot IRIX
[08:57:04] <Triskelios> IRIX is dead =\
[08:57:05] <tsoome> isnt it dead?
[08:57:18] <tsoome> same with tru64
[08:57:18] <delewis> not yet.
[08:57:23] <mbalmer> ][ ==  "the OS formerly known as UNIX"
[08:57:25] <lloy0076> I think all the non-open sourced Unixes will die, albeit slowly.
[08:57:35] <Chipdancer> jmcp: looks pretty with 6.5G free memory available for dom0
[08:57:36] <richlowe> WickedWicky: because they (used to, at least) use the exact same media for DE.
[08:57:37] <delewis> you can still download maintenance releases from SGI and buy feature releases.
[08:57:44] <Tempt> Tru64 is still being maintained
[08:57:45] <lloy0076> (Just as I suspect the non-open souce Windows will die in its current form)
[08:57:51] <Tempt> I think IRIX is still being maintained, just no more released
[08:57:54] <Tempt> releases
[08:57:57] <delewis> Tempt: right.
[08:58:07] <lloy0076> delewis: Yeah, and risk them suing you over something they don't own?
[08:58:08] <Tempt> SGI is the perfect example of what happens to a UNIX vendor who tries to suck up to the penguin society
[08:58:20] <delewis> lloy0076: what?
[08:58:42] <lloy0076> delewis: SCO and their wonderful, Your IP is Our IP but OOPS - it wasn't ours anyway trick.
[08:58:49] <lloy0076> Would one really trust them any more?
[08:58:50] <Triskelios> SGI's main problem was drinking the Itanic kool-aid back in the last decade
[08:58:56] <delewis> what does that have to do with SGI?
[08:59:12] <lloy0076> errrk
[08:59:13] <bobbyz> Tempt: you really don't like Linux, do you?
[08:59:17] <lloy0076> I'm not seeing right today.
[08:59:18] <e^ipi> Triskelios: HP did too
[08:59:21] <e^ipi> now look at them
[08:59:23] <lloy0076> SGI - SCO look similar
[08:59:24] <Tempt> All Linux hardware companies suffer
[08:59:25] <lloy0076> lol
[08:59:35] <e^ipi> they've got a wonderfully profitable line of printers and ink to go with them
[08:59:36] <Tempt> All the original linux specific x86 vendors are either dead or no longer do hardware.
[08:59:53] <Triskelios> lloy0076: .... now we can ignore you for being troll =P
[08:59:58] <bobbyz> fair enough
[09:00:05] <flyingparchment> Tempt: there are companies targeting the low-end server market (the sort of people who use linux a lot) and doing well - silicon mechanics e.g.
[09:00:18] <lloy0076> Triskelios: No, for having ageing eyesight and not reading right. Heh.
[09:00:25] <Tempt> Never heard of "silicon mechanics"
[09:00:54] <Triskelios> lloy0076: oh, I take that back then
[09:00:55] <flyingparchment> are they not doing well just because you never heard of them? :)
[09:01:05] <Tempt> If they were doing well I would have heard of them ;)
[09:01:19] <flyingparchment> i doubt you'd ever buy anything from a company like that.  it's a white-box PC vendor
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[09:01:27] <tsoome> lowend does not care about trademarrks, standards etc. they just switch to another lowend if you dont like your current one
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[09:01:42] <Tempt> Aaah, a box shifting peecee vendor
[09:01:54] <Tempt> With no R&D budget and therefore absolutely no innovation, no doubt.
[09:02:13] <tsoome> what R&D do you expect from them....
[09:02:32] <flyingparchment> i don't care if my PC hardware supplier does R&D
[09:02:41] <delewis> "how many neon lights can we stuff in a chassis?"
[09:02:45] <Tempt> And trying to associate with SGI with Caldera is a rude move.
[09:02:59] <tsoome> flyingparchment: thats exactly why i dont buy a pc:)
[09:03:31] <flyingparchment> my point is, hardware companies like that do well with linux people
[09:03:57] <flyingparchment> the hardware is shitty, but it's very cheap :)
[09:04:00] <e^ipi> cheap junk from the bottom up?
[09:04:20] <e^ipi> hardware & soft
[09:04:38] <tsoome> i cant afford cheap junk
[09:05:00] <tsoome> great
[09:05:13] <Tempt> Oh, just want I want to buy
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[09:05:21] <Tempt> cheap junk that I can throw away or pay to repair in a few months
[09:05:26] <tsoome> snv_70 boot from sun W2100 workstation
[09:05:30] <Tempt> The vendor that sold it to me went back to vietnam
[09:05:38] <tsoome> Xorg didnt survive the task
[09:05:42] <tsoome> fuck
[09:05:51] <tsoome> I hate Xorg
[09:06:07] <mbalmer> why?
[09:06:10] <Tempt> tsoome: Join my "save Xsun" campaign
[09:06:31] <Tempt> mbalmer: Because a lot of us have never seen Xsun crash.
[09:06:50] <delewis> I'm one of those.
[09:06:57] <tsoome> mbalmer: i did boot from dvd, intending to do upgrade, Xorg did crash, and you asking why i dislike it?
[09:07:12] <Tempt> Well, I did see Xsun crash once, but the framebuffer died so that justifies it.
[09:07:15] <tsoome> thats exactly why i told i cant afford cheap junk
[09:07:56] <quasi> morning
[09:07:57] <Tempt> You see, the way a lot of us see it, the features run like this
[09:08:00] <Tempt> Xsun: never crashed
[09:08:07] <Tempt> Xorg: has compiz!!!!111eleventy
[09:08:10] <tsoome> Tempt: thats true
[09:09:29] <delewis> and Xsun still works fine with the majority of hardware Sun has sold over the last 16 or 17 years.
[09:10:05] <tsoome> hm, if Xorg crashed on Sun hw, that means sun sw engineers are not using this hw.....
[09:10:06] <kjetilho> Tempt: did Xorg ever crash when run on a Sun framebuffer?
[09:10:21] <Tempt> Xorg doesn't *SUPPORT* the Sun framebuffers
[09:10:32] <kjetilho> so the comparison doesn't make any sense
[09:10:54] <jmcp> Chipdancer: cool
[09:10:57] <kjetilho> obviously it's harder to support cards where you are lacking documentation
[09:11:05] <flyingparchment> Xorg seemed a fair bit faster to me on x86 systems.  (i understand it's much better on sparc)
[09:11:06] <WickedWicky> brb, gonna walk ot the office
[09:11:11] <Tempt> The transition from Xsun to Xorg is particularly GALLING to SPARC users because there won't be any support for non-current SPARC framebuffers the way things are going.
[09:11:27] <tsoome> Xorg is just a pathetic example how unix world is unable to produce reliable desktop engine
[09:11:34] <tsoome> nothing more nothing less
[09:11:42] <Tempt> kjetilho: Are you suggesting Xorg crashes are because peecee video hardware is so shite it just falls apart for shit 'n' giggles?
[09:12:22] <kjetilho> Tempt: no, not that it's shite, but that it is non-standardised so that subtle differences in chip programming causes problems
[09:12:27] <delewis> I've never seen Xsun crash on x86, either, and Sun did purchase (from my understanding) a lot of drivers from XiG.
[09:12:51] <delewis> so its probably valid to say those drivers are relatively high-quality, given what I've seen from XiG in the past.
[09:13:11] <Tempt> I never had AccelleratedX crash when I had a linux machine
[09:13:12] <delewis> (XiG is a vendor that caters X11 solutions for ATC, healthcare, and the military)
[09:13:13] <kjetilho> Xi Graphics had access to documentation, too
[09:13:36] <delewis> kjetilho: you're not providing valid reasons for Xorg superiority, just excuses for its inferiority.
[09:13:46] <mbalmer> tssome, never add issues with Xorg (but mostly on !solaris OS)
[09:14:22] <kjetilho> delewis: just don't buy a video card where the vendor isn't willing to share documentation with the free software community
[09:14:29] <delewis> mbalmer: there are reasons why vendors like XiG aren't using Xorg for their solutions, but rather their own X11 server that works.
[09:14:29] <kjetilho> then you don't get stability problems
[09:14:39] <Tempt> share documentation with the free software community
[09:14:40] <Tempt> SO:
[09:14:41] <Tempt> no ati
[09:14:42] <delewis> kjetilho: what the fuck does that have to do with anything?
[09:14:43] <Tempt> no nvidia
[09:14:53] <kjetilho> delewis: are you being dense on purpose?
[09:14:55] <Tempt> not sure how intel are ..
[09:14:58] <Tempt> no 3d labs ...
[09:15:04] <delewis> kjetilho: no, you're being non-sensical.
[09:15:11] <Tempt> Might as well just plug in a serial terminal and give up
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[09:15:16] <Stric> Tempt: intel are sharing all docs
[09:15:22] <delewis> the lack of documentation for a specific graphics device does *not* make the X11 server unstable in question.
[09:15:23] <trygvis> http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1772009
[09:15:38] <kjetilho> delewis: how do you expect a driver written on reverse-engineered information to be stable compared to one written according to (secret) specifications?
[09:15:40] <Tempt> Stric: It's good that the lowest-end graphics vendor is sharing documentation. That way everyone can have free, open and sluggish video
[09:16:01] <delewis> kjetilho: we aren't talking about graphics support, necessarily, but stability.
[09:16:15] <Tempt> kjetilho: I don't expect a reverse engineered solution to be as good, no.
[09:16:19] <tsoome> mbalmer: just try to run remote java apps  etc. sun provided java installers are most cases if i see Xorg crash and had to start Xsun to get job done
[09:16:31] <Tempt> kjetilho: Hence I'm not calling the maintainers and programmers working on Xorg stupid, I'm just saying Xorg is less stable.
[09:16:32] <delewis> I'm sure Xorg outperforms XiG's X11 server, as well, but XiG's is certainly more stable.
[09:16:36] <mbalmer> the good thing about Xorg is, that you can fix bugs.
[09:16:45] <Tempt> I'm sure everyone working on Xorg is pretty damn good.
[09:16:50] <delewis> mbalmer: are *you* fixing bugs?
[09:16:56] <kjetilho> delewis: you mean core dumps?  I've never seen that myself, only PCI hangs etc. which are driver related
[09:16:57] <delewis> (if not, why do you give a fuck?)
[09:17:01] <mbalmer> from time to time, yes.
[09:17:06] <Tempt> PCI hangs
[09:17:13] <Tempt> Also known as the X server taking down the host
[09:17:18] <tsoome> how many ppl are *really* capable of fixing bugs in Xorg? ;)
[09:17:30] <Tempt> Reminds me of when RedHat shipped a screensaver that would lock the entire host.
[09:17:36] <mbalmer> if you can operate that thing called "vi" you are.
[09:17:50] <tsoome> lol
[09:17:53] <mbalmer> Tempt, lol, that surely saves the screen ;=)
[09:17:53] <lloy0076> Why can't I be like other programmers and just leave the JavaDoc as Someone Else's Problem (tm)?
[09:17:53] <Tempt> haha
[09:17:56] <Tempt> CAN HAS COMMIT?
[09:18:02] <delewis> I caught your sarcasm that time. :-)
[09:18:03] <flyingparchment> how does knowing vi mean i can fix bugs in a video driver?
[09:18:08] <kjetilho> core dump bugs I would be able to fix, but I don't think that kind of trivial errors are common ...
[09:18:36] <Triskelios> flyingparchment: I think he wasn't serious. that's like saying anyone who can use a paper and pencil can write a bestselling novel =P
[09:18:37] <Tempt> mbalmer: Actually, it did save the screen
[09:19:01] <Tempt> mbalmer: The entire host was replaced with a V120 running Solaris 9 and was faster, easy to look after and not an eyesore in my machineroom
[09:19:08] <mbalmer> Triskelios, right...
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[09:25:44] <tsoome> hmmm, need coffee:D
[09:26:29] <e^ipi> don't we all...
[09:28:35] <trochej> Yes
[09:28:38] <trochej> coffee
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[09:53:45] <WickedWicky> hooray
[09:54:04] <e^ipi> got free beer?
[09:56:31] <renihs> he is dutch
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[09:58:48] <PerterB> they have free beer in the Netherlands then?
[09:58:55] <WickedWicky> no
[09:59:32] <e^ipi> free pot then ?
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[09:59:51] <e^ipi> you wacky dutch and your marijuana
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[10:01:01] <asyd> \_o<
[10:01:16] <asyd> I'll take some marijuana :p
[10:01:57] <PerterB> bit early in the morning for that kind of thing, no?
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[10:17:58] <timsf> hey all
[10:18:26] <Fish> hello
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[10:24:00] <seanmcg> morning timf
[10:26:11] <tsp> any hope of getting a happy meal card to work on x86?
[10:26:14] <tsp> or is it sparc only
[10:26:47] <tsp> the builtin card on this box can't negociate the media settings, at least with this third party driver
[10:27:06] <tsp> and I can't find a select media type in ifconfig's manpage
[10:27:17] <Tempt> the fries are stale
[10:27:20] <Tempt> stick some in the socket
[10:27:59] <seanmcg> sparc binary only delivered..  though nothing stopping you trying to build it :)
[10:28:15] <seanmcg>   gdamore would know more since he made the hme/qfe gld3 recently..
[10:28:17] <kjetilho> tsp: isn't Happy Meal SBus only?
[10:28:36] <seanmcg> besides can get a 1Gb nic pretty cheap
[10:28:44] <Tempt> kjetilho: No, it isn't.
[10:28:58] <kjetilho> ah, it's the same chipset as qfe?
[10:29:04] <seanmcg> yes.
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[10:45:06] <mbalmer> tsp, I use several quad hme's in x86 (PCI based)
[10:45:23] <mbalmer> but not with opensolaris, but I guess that should just work.
[10:45:45] * tsp tosses in a random nic an dsees what pops up
[10:46:03] <tsp> what's the equivalent of boot -r?
[10:46:24] <tsoome> touch /reconfigure
[10:46:39] <tsp> hmm, so archaic
[10:46:46] <tsp> damn boot archive died again
[10:47:19] <quasi> does anyone remember how to get the options a ufs filesystem was created with? / seeing current tunefs settings
[10:47:26] <e^ipi> how is that archaic ?
[10:47:37] <tsp> I guess its not that bad
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[10:47:52] <tsoome> quasi: fstyp -v ?
[10:47:58] <asyd> S12
[10:48:50] <quasi> tsoome: not quite
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[10:50:08] <Triskelios> tsp: you mean it's running out of memory updating the boot archive?
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[10:53:28] <tsp> no, it just takes forever
[10:53:40] <tsp> there we go. found a 3com nic that can ping out, anyway
[10:54:02] <tsp> what does plumbing a nic mean? I didn't even know it was there until I did that and played with prtpicl
[10:54:57] <kjetilho> plumb means to connect the pipes
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[11:06:50] <Stric>   2218 root       1  49    0 2432M 2335M sleep   61.5H  0.78% Xsun
[11:06:59] <Stric> speaking about how perfect Xsun is..
[11:07:15] <myrkraverk> does solaris take advantage of hyperthreading x86s?
[11:07:24] <dlg> yes
[11:08:22] <myrkraverk> nice ;)
[11:09:28] <kjetilho> what does "take advantage of" mean?  I think it is disabled by default :)
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[11:09:44] <kjetilho> since it has little performance improvement in practice
[11:09:57] <myrkraverk> kjetilho: compared to linux: I don't have to compile my own kernel for it ;-P
[11:10:05] <Tempt> Stric: Man, if you're falling for the old "ooooooh look how bigz my X is" ... I'm speechless
[11:10:26] <myrkraverk> kjetilho: where do I find info on how to enable it, and maybe see it in action?
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[11:10:37] <dlg> kjetilho: its configured in the bios
[11:10:58] <dlg> if the machine presents hyperthreaded cpus then solaris will use it
[11:11:07] <Tempt>  25514 avenger    17M 6104K sleep   35    0  19:09:18 3.1% Xsun/1
[11:11:09] <Tempt> hehehe
[11:11:23] <Stric> Tempt: it's a sunray, so there's no physical card connected to that Xsun
[11:11:32] <Tempt> Stric: And you just got caught logging into X as root
[11:11:40] <seanmcg> tsp: equiv of boot -r is: devfsadm -C
[11:11:53] <Stric> Tempt: no, I didn't.
[11:12:28] <Tempt> errr
[11:12:33] <kjetilho> dlg: ok, thanks
[11:12:35] <Tempt> Why is your Xsun owned by root then?
[11:12:49] <Stric> dunno, ask gdm or so.. but it's regular users logged in
[11:13:01] <Tempt> Odd.
[11:13:20] <Stric> http://pastebin.ca/666606
[11:13:27] <Tempt> pmap it
[11:13:42] <Stric> it's all heap
[11:13:59] <Tempt> You've found a bug ...
[11:14:01] <Stric> http://pastebin.ca/666607
[11:14:04] <Tempt> time to raise a case
[11:14:10] <kjetilho> hmm, Xsun is setuid root, but it *could* give that up when it's a virtual frame buffer
[11:14:21] <kjetilho> Tempt: don't be silly
[11:14:34] <Tempt> Certainly doesn't show as root on my sunray's Xsun
[11:14:45] <Tempt> kjetilho: Yes, ignore those stupid service contracts.
[11:14:47] <kjetilho> Stric: it's very common -- all the pixmaps have to stored somewhere
[11:15:01] <Tempt> 2Gb of pixmaps?
[11:15:08] <kjetilho> yes
[11:15:12] <Stric> I believe there's a bunch of matlabs running in there
[11:15:17] <kjetilho> Firefox is very eager to offload those to the server
[11:15:51] <Tempt> Oh well, perhaps it is legit use.
[11:15:53] <Stric> Tempt: the root vs non-root might be because we're running an unsupported sunray+gdm combo
[11:15:56] <Stric> since dtlogin sucks
[11:15:58] <kjetilho> if you want to persue it, quit all applications running inside that Xsun and see if the memory is reclaimed
[11:16:02] <Tempt> Never seen someone manage to cram that much on a sunray.
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[11:22:30] <mbalmer> dlg, how to see if HT is active on the shell?
[11:22:54] <Stric> psrinfo -v
[11:24:06] <mbalmer> thx
[11:24:25] <myrkraverk> for me, that doesn't display anything about HT ;/
[11:24:46] <myrkraverk> is there a way to specifically try to enable it?
[11:24:49] <mbalmer> here it shows the status of two virtual processors.
[11:24:51] <Stric> (I'm just guessing.. it should display virtual processors etc)
[11:26:32] <myrkraverk> here, only one; previously, linux claimed HT support for this cpu -- so I'm curious about solaris
[11:26:53] <kjetilho> perhaps Linux ignores the BIOS setting?
[11:27:30] <myrkraverk> kjetilho: it claimed support for it, I didn't say it was using it -- but yes, maybe linux ignores bios setttings too ;)
[11:27:59] <myrkraverk> (I really don't want to reboot now)
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[11:34:27] <Triskelios> generally the BIOS setting toggles what info is reported by ACPI, so I would think there isn't something that can be "ignored"
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[11:40:57] <bobbyz> which file(s) or utilities are responsible for keeping track of which cards are in different pci slots?  I moved my network adapter to a different adapter in my case and now it is being recognized as ske1 instead of its previous skge0, even though there are no skge cards in the system.
[11:41:15] <bobbyz> different adapter = different pci slot
[11:41:39] <bobbyz> and ske1=skge1.  I'm getting used to a new keyboard
[11:42:44] <bobbyz> err...lemme rephrase the entire thing.  That first question was non-sensical.  which file(s) or utilities are responsible for keeping track of which cards are in different pci slots?  I moved my network adapter to a different pci slot in my case and now it is being recognized as skge1 instead of its previous skge0, even though there are no -other- skge cards in the system.
[11:44:28] <seanmcg> /etc/path_to_inst is one of them...
[11:46:43] <bobbyz> seanmcg: thanks, I'll rifle through that
[11:47:25] <bobbyz> oh yeah, that looks like it's the culprit
[11:47:26] <bobbyz> thanks
[11:47:48] <alanbu1> Beware: edit that file wrongly and your machine is a brick
[11:48:35] <bobbyz> hmm...that's a bit scary
[11:48:50] <bobbyz> alanbu1: I could still fail-safe boot to recover, though, right?
[11:49:05] <alanbu1> Umm, perhaps....
[11:49:35] <alanbu1> not quite sure if that file is shared between both
[11:49:43] <bobbyz> and is there a tool I should use instead of hand editing it?
[11:49:50] <alanbu1> Yes ;-)
[11:50:07] <bobbyz> it is definitely listing skge at two different bus locations when the card is actually only in one
[11:50:21] <bda> It is repairable after bricking. :)
[11:50:33] <alanbu1> because it doesn't know if you have removed the old one
[11:50:42] <alanbu1> man devfsadm
[11:50:51] <bobbyz> ahhhh...I knew I was missing something
[11:51:02] <bobbyz> I forgot about devfsadm
[11:51:29] * bda got to learn about devfsadm, /etc/path_to_inst, /devices, et al, after moving an OS install from one set of hardware to another.
[11:51:32] <bda> Exciting 30 minutes.
[11:51:37] <bobbyz> thanks alanbu1 and seanmcg
[11:51:40] <alanbu1> run with -C to clean up the old entries
[11:51:47] <bobbyz> bda: I heard that can be tricky  :)
[11:51:57] <bobbyz> alanbu1: will do!  :)
[11:52:07] <alanbu1> Run with -sv to see what is going to happen before you do it
[11:52:12] <bda> What you're doing is basically half the battle.
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[11:53:39] <bobbyz> so I bet updating the boot paths vfstab and such is probably the other half?
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[11:54:37] <bobbyz> alanbur: that worked like a charm.  Thanks again
[11:55:06] <alanbur> ;-)
[11:55:54] <bda> bobbyz: iirc, it also involved blowing away /devices, reconfigure, and then recreating the /dev/fd mountpoint, which vanished.
[11:55:59] <bda> Lack of /dev/fd was pretty interesting.
[11:56:12] <bda> It was a while ago. I'd have to dig out my notebook.
[11:56:14] <bobbyz> so basically any time you move devices that aren't hot-pluggable around, you gotta go through and use devfsadm with the -C switch to make sure Solaris acknowledges the old device is no longer there?  I don't plan to move devices around a lot, but I want to make sure for future reference
[11:57:38] <alanbur> That's safest.
[11:57:48] <bobbyz> I'll make sure to make a note of that then
[11:58:26] <alanbur> Think of the case where the device is an external disk array that you forgot to power on - you wouldn't want the OS to automagically remove all the device nodes
[11:59:00] <bobbyz> that makes a lot of sense
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[11:59:32] <WickedWicky> I hate board meetings
[11:59:58] <bda> Re-enact the torture seen from Reservoir Dogs.
[12:00:00] <WickedWicky> and with that statement said: lunch time :D
[12:00:08] <WickedWicky> what? the cutting the ear off?
[12:00:09] <bda> s/seen/scene/ # wtf
[12:00:13] <bda> Ya.
[12:00:15] <WickedWicky> lol
[12:00:17] <CIA-21> jhaslam: 6543061 /opt/SUNWdtrt/tst/common/mib/tst.tcp.ksh can hang if fingerd is disabled, 6581091 some DTrace test suite tests are not dstyle clean, 6581196 many ksh scripts in the DTrace test suite use incorrect SCCS ID string, 6581228 some DTrace test suite scripts need to specify a unit for cleanrate, 6593038 some D scripts in the test suite contain multiple identical SCCS ident strings
[12:00:18] <WickedWicky> that kicks ass
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[12:03:22] <WickedWicky> quick lunch, brb
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[12:10:02] <bda> hahaha. Watching the Google DTrace talk. <bcantril> Anyone heard of this book, "Dreaming in Code"? Scott Rosenberg? Don't read it, it sucks.
[12:10:41] <dlg> url pls
[12:10:58] <bda> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8002801113289007228
[12:11:23] <bda> whup. s/tril/trill/
[12:11:27] <seanmcg> and http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/dtrace_at_google
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[12:11:53] <bda> seanmcg: 404
[12:12:04] <renihs> seanmcg, 404
[12:12:08] <renihs> :p
[12:12:39] <ofu> which eSATA-Controllers are supported? Or is it the same as sata controllers?
[12:12:48] <Tempt> ha, yeah, watching it now
[12:12:49] <mbalmer> sure 404, dlg was faster...
[12:12:59] <dlg> like a fox
[12:13:10] <dlg> ofu: you can get sata to esata headers for like 10 bucks
[12:13:14] <Tempt> I don't like Cantrill's support of linux.
[12:13:23] <Tempt> He should have told them to DIAF ;)
[12:13:39] <seanmcg> oops http://blogs.sun.com/bmc/entry/dtrace_at_google
[12:13:47] <bda> This book review is sort of surreal.
[12:14:39] <bda> Wow. "Software is not day labor."
[12:14:41] <bda> Wow.
[12:16:25] <Tempt> I love his case study of that steeenking gnome stock ticker applet
[12:16:34] <bda> URL?
[12:16:52] <timsf> worse still is someone talking on his blog entry about the gnome audio control applet
[12:17:12] <timsf>  polls every 100ms to see if the audio volume has changed ? bloddy hell.
[12:17:21] <timsf> s/od/oo/
[12:17:46] <Tempt> apparently the stock ticker wanted to wake up every millisecond to create a context, draw a pixel and then destroy the context
[12:17:49] <timsf> was a good talk though
[12:17:50] <Tempt> (!)
[12:18:04] <Tempt> No wonder is leaks through 500mb/day
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[12:27:25] <bda> huh. Numbers is pretty slick.
[12:28:48] <Tempt> Numbers?
[12:29:59] <dlg> apples answer to excel
[12:30:08] <bda> It's not that complex.
[12:30:19] <WickedWicky> how is it that every freaking caterer I get a "chicken with pesto" sandwich from it actually turns out to be 'pesto maybe with chicken' sandwich
[12:30:21] <bda> Not even close, I'd imagine.
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[12:30:37] <Tempt> Hah
[12:30:40] <bda> I just noticed the guy in the Google DTrace talk with the beanie with a spinny thing on his head.
[12:30:45] <Tempt> Because you never order the chicken anything from a caterer
[12:30:53] <Tempt> you either get nothing or you get more than you bargained for
[12:31:19] <kjetilho> bda: so no support for complex numbers?
[12:31:53] <bda> kjetilho: No idea. It is targeted at people who need a spreadsheet but don't need a Spreadsheet.
[12:32:03] <bda> It appears to do many useful things I will probably never use, though I should.
[12:32:16] <bda> At the moment, I just needed something to read an Excel IP alloc request form. :)
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[12:32:34] <bda> kjetilho: Orrr were you making a bad joke. ;)
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[12:32:37] * bda is tired.
[12:34:06] <WickedWicky> talking 'bout bad jokes, lemme read my gmail
[12:34:36] <bda> Damnit. Trial won't write.
[12:34:43] <Tempt> hahaha
[12:34:48] <Tempt> Just use staroffice.
[12:35:06] <bda> meh.
[12:37:55] <WickedWicky> brb
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[12:51:21] <WickedWicky> ohhhhhhh pay day! \o/
[12:51:30] <WickedWicky> I'm rich for the four days
[12:52:30] <Tempt> payday tomorrow for me
[12:52:44] <quasi> WickedWicky: planning to drink it all up in the weekend?
[12:52:54] <WickedWicky> no
[12:53:02] <WickedWicky> birthday that requires present buying
[12:53:11] <WickedWicky> and it's mom, so it better be a nice present
[12:53:39] <bda> "Dtrace is like Tivo. Love it or hate Tivo, you're never going back to pre-Tivo TV watching. I don't even consider Tivo a thing anymore. It's just a part of modern living, like a roof. I never think 'man, my roof rules!' I think 'I don't like sleeping outside.'
[12:53:43] <bda> hahahhaa
[12:53:57] <quasi> moms like stuff you make yourself - go nick a couple of bikes and weld them together ;)
[12:54:51] <Tempt> ha!
[12:54:53] <Tempt> Excellent.
[12:55:06] <WickedWicky> I have two left hands
[12:55:21] <quasi> bda: I don't get it - how could you hate dtrace? ... (that is if you're not just a systemtap dev ;)
[12:55:37] <bda> quasi: Hey, ask Cantrill. It's his analogy.
[12:55:40] <bda> I just thought it was hilarious. :)
[12:56:34] <Tempt> It appears that systemtap devs *really, really* hate dtrace
[12:56:39] * WickedWicky humps ksh
[12:56:45] <WickedWicky> ksh93 that is
[12:57:08] <WickedWicky> gunzip -c w.tgz | ta <tab>
[12:57:17] <WickedWicky> $ /usr/bin/gunzip -c w.tgz | ta
[12:57:18] <WickedWicky> 1) /usr/bin/tar
[12:57:18] <WickedWicky> 2) /usr/bin/tabs
[12:57:18] <WickedWicky> 3) /usr/bin/tail
[12:57:18] <WickedWicky> 4) /usr/bin/talk
[12:57:24] <WickedWicky> paths, the whole lot
[12:57:35] * WickedWicky wants to execute dirty pr0n activities to it
[12:58:13] <quasi> Tempt: sure, they know they can't win
[12:58:30] <WickedWicky> one might wonder why they give it tgz extension when it's bz2 though
[12:58:33] * WickedWicky glares at Tempt
[12:59:25] <quasi> WickedWicky: to fool the virus scanners ;)
[12:59:42] <WickedWicky> I thought Unix didnt have virsurs
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[13:00:19] <dlg> WickedWicky: its called the gpl
[13:00:24] <dlg> SNAP
[13:00:25] * dlg hilarious
[13:00:26] <WickedWicky> I think it was more testing my abilities in "OMFG THIS XTENSION LOOKS WRONG WHAT DO I USE FOR OPEN WITH"
[13:00:46] <WickedWicky> you're a looney
[13:00:53] <quasi> anyone getting hit by SOX is likely to run into silly auditors who insist on virus scanners all over the place
[13:01:37] <WickedWicky> when my sox hit me I throw them away
[13:01:44] <WickedWicky> and put new ones on
[13:02:29] <WickedWicky> at the ISP I used to work for we had an IRC server linked to Chatnet, and i had the argueable honor of being the server administrator..
[13:02:40] <WickedWicky> OmFgWtfBBQ, I mean really.
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[13:14:33] <flyingparchment> hmm, i can't install b70 on vmware
[13:14:38] <flyingparchment> it hangs at "Setting up Java."
[13:15:05] <trygvis> that step takes a while to complete
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[13:15:23] <flyingparchment> i left it while i was out of the house for 4 hours and it's still there :)
[13:18:53] <dlg> thats just crazy
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[13:18:57] <dlg> why would you leave your house?
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[13:20:40] <boyd> Gaaaaaaaaahhhh! fscking google reader offline mode. So tempting, so crappy.
[13:20:52] * flyingparchment wonders if 256MB isn't enough anymore
[13:21:14] <flyingparchment> hm, no, it has 512 anyway
[13:23:27] <boyd> Tpenta: ping
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[13:39:20] <bda> That was a good talk.
[13:39:39] <bda> I really with I could point DTrace+Perl ustack helper at our fucking mail dispatcher.
[13:40:11] <bda> "Why do you sometimes fall off the face of the Earth?" "Why are you so bloody slow?" "Why do you sometimes decide to watch clouds instead of do work?"
[13:40:14] * bda grumps.
[13:45:57] <boyd> bda: Been watching Bryan at google?
[13:46:12] <bda> Yes.
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[13:46:23] <boyd> He's always entertaining
[13:46:24] <bda> Yes. :)
[13:47:48] <flyingparchment> the installed requires at 8GB disk.  apparently, my 8GB disk is too small.
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[14:13:39] <Tempt> Boyd is going to come 'round and visit me one day shortly.
[14:13:57] <Tempt> Otherwise his tape library will not be here when he does eventually visit.
[14:14:10] <boyd> :O
[14:14:18] <Tempt> fscking DLT8000 libraries, can't *give* them away
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[14:14:39] <boyd> *broken* DLT8000 libraries
[14:14:44] <boyd> :)
[14:14:50] <boyd> Have you un-buried it?
[14:14:51] <Tempt> well, dead PSU isn't really dead is it?
[14:14:52] <Tempt> :)
[14:14:59] <Tempt> I'm actually cleaning up my office floor and found it
[14:15:10] <boyd> I knew it was there somewhere
[14:15:57] <Tempt> It was under a GPS time unit, two annexes the top lid from a UPS a 15" LCD couple 2Gb spindles and some e1000g cards
[14:16:08] * Tempt *loves* hardware
[14:16:19] <boyd> ... and a partridge in a pear tree
[14:16:49] <Tempt> One day I'm going to move to a warehouse and *fill* it with machines
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[14:18:28] <JWheeler> Chaps, a GDB question if I may. I've compiled an application, when I try to run it, it dumps core. Runnig gdb, backtrace, l, gives: 1       /opt/csw/gcc3/include/c++/3.3.3/iostream: No such file or directory. I'm not really sure where I go with it from there
[14:19:08] <JWheeler> The host that I built the code on doesn't have that folder tree, so I don't understand where it's coming from. Is this something to do with that rule of never building/mixing code from different gcc versions?
[14:19:26] * boyd thinks about saying something about going to a language other than C++ but decides that's not helpful.
[14:19:39] <JWheeler> :)
[14:20:26] <JWheeler> I don't understand C++, but then I don't understand C either. I'm just trying to package this app up, someone else requested, and yet another person wrote it... I'm just the poor schmuck trying to build it :)
[14:21:14] <boyd> If you just want a backtrace you can try pstack on the thing, but I think the C++ name mangling may make that ugly
[14:21:18] <seanmcg> recompile with sunstudio compilers and use dbx :)
[14:21:45] <seanmcg> can filter the pstack output via c++filt to get 'proper' func names..
[14:21:52] <kjetilho> you can't use dbx with g++ compiled programs?
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[14:22:29] <WickedWicky> yows
[14:22:57] <brandini> morning
[14:23:00] <JWheeler> I'll try with studio, I've not yet had a program compile with it though :)
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[14:23:42] <seanmcg> kjetilho: I think you can, though there will be differences... debug info can differ.
[14:25:10] <JWheeler> well studio made it most of the way... a nice effort
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[14:26:26] <Tempt> JWheeler: What on earth are you building?
[14:26:27] <JWheeler> pstack gives me info, but alas I don't know how to read it
[14:26:32] <JWheeler> easytag
[14:26:39] <seanmcg> pastebin ?
[14:26:56] <JWheeler> seanmcg, what would you like to see? pstack, gdb backtrace?
[14:27:23] <seanmcg> why not both at once, same pastebin :)
[14:28:40] <JWheeler> There you go, something for everyone :) http://pastebin.com/m3cffa93b
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[14:29:03] <legolas_w> Hi
[14:29:35] <legolas_w> Is there any place that i can find a list of HP, supermicro servers which are certified for Solaris operating system?
[14:29:39] <JWheeler> If I understand this correctly, line 116 says the problem is with libstdc++?
[14:29:50] * JWheeler cowers
[14:29:50] <Tempt> I believe the HP DL series are certified.
[14:29:55] <Tempt> They work anyway
[14:30:16] <JWheeler> Tempt, I included the final studio lines in that past, in case you're interested :)
[14:30:36] <Tempt> I can't see pastebin tonight
[14:30:42] <Cyrille> it says that in the destructor of the "std::locale" class the function gnu_cxx::exchange_and_add which is presumably some internal of the implementation of the STL caused the core dump.
[14:30:43] <Tempt> Traceroute goes nowhere
[14:31:15] * JWheeler looks at Cyrille, and double checks he's in an english speaking channel
[14:31:29] <JWheeler> sorry friend, I have no idea what that meant
[14:31:45] <WickedWicky> you know your day is gonna suck when yu see:
[14:31:48] <WickedWicky> Operation Id: 109120
[14:31:48] <WickedWicky> Type: RtspPlayWithStreamControl
[14:31:48] <WickedWicky> Status: Complete-failed
[14:31:48] <WickedWicky> State: Dead
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[14:32:06] <WickedWicky> Operation log:
[14:32:06] <WickedWicky> 20070821 22:48:40:792 OPLOG No available bandwidth
[14:32:06] <WickedWicky> 20070821 22:48:40:800 OPLOG An error occurred sending allocate error
[14:32:09] <JWheeler> ah, dead, always an inspiring state
[14:32:27] <WickedWicky> no available bandwith
[14:32:36] <WickedWicky> it's a fucking 20GB dark fiber
[14:32:58] <WickedWicky> they're fairly late with escalating this problem as well
[14:33:41] <Cyrille> JWheeler, the error seems to be occurring internally in a standardish class used by the program, and not directly in the actual program code (though the error could be triggered by the program code but show up elsewhere).
[14:33:54] <JWheeler> The file not found is the bit that caught my uneducated eye :)
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[14:34:21] * JWheeler nods
[14:34:28] <Tempt> ouch
[14:34:36] <legolas_w> Tempt, Is there Any supermicro server certified for Solaris?
[14:34:37] * Tempt looks at easytag's deps and just gives up
[14:34:48] <Tempt> I don't deal in peecee hardware, who are supermicro?
[14:35:02] <JWheeler> Tempt, it built really easily in fact :)
[14:35:17] <JWheeler> using gcc3 or 4
[14:35:24] <Tempt> Well
[14:35:29] <Tempt> I'll try again for that pastebin
[14:35:38] <JWheeler> shall I try rafb?
[14:35:40] <Cyrille> JWheeler, the file not found is due to the fact that the machine you built on is not the one you're running on.
[14:35:55] <jmcp> legolas_w: supermicro stuff should just work. if it doesn't, file a bug on bugs.opensolaris.org
[14:35:58] <Tempt> oh, can get it
[14:36:01] <Tempt> Now I can shrug properly
[14:36:08] <JWheeler> Cyrille, that was my first thought, but the one that I built it one doesn't have that path either
[14:36:11] <Cyrille> so the header referenced in the debug symbols of your built executable is nowhere to be found to try and print the line where the crash occurs.
[14:36:39] <Tempt> jmcp: "BUG: My yum-cha shitty hardware doesn't play nice with OS"
[14:36:40] <JWheeler> oh, so it just needs it for debugging, not normal operation?
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[14:37:19] <jmcp> Tempt: supermicro stuff is actually quite good, as far as I can determine
[14:37:21] <Cyrille> JWheeler, sorry actually the header information in question is coming from libstdc++.so, which you didn't compile yourself.
[14:37:39] <JWheeler> ah, that's true
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[14:37:54] <Cyrille> JWheeler, yes, that file not found error is only showing because you tried to list the source code where the segv happened.
[14:37:57] <JWheeler> so... was libstdc++ perhaps compiled with gcc 3.3.3?
[14:38:02] <Cyrille> it's not related to the segmentation fault itself.
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[14:38:31] <JWheeler> oh, so that's how it works out the lines of code, I always thought that seemed like voodoo!
[14:39:00] <seanmcg> the  args to exchange_and_add look odd, 0 and ffffffff (If I'm to believe the output)
[14:39:11] <richlowe> JWheeler: it is voodoo, just different voodoo
[14:39:41] <JWheeler> so back to the issue at hand, we're still talking about a problem either within stdc++ or, in trying to use stdc++ in a manner it's not meant to be used. This is linux software, there is no mention that it's meant to work on solaris, I was hoping to give the developers some good news
[14:40:48] <jmcp> seanmcg: 0 and -1?
[14:40:52] <Tempt> they provide pkgs for netbsd
[14:40:54] <Tempt> it can't be too bad
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[14:41:04] <richlowe> jmcp: depending on the debugger, it should be smarter about -1
[14:41:09] <richlowe> jmcp: (depending on type)
[14:41:22] <richlowe> though I only just woke up, and can't find where the stack was pasted.
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[14:41:37] <Cyrille> Am I the only one finding strange that we have line 75 loading stdc++.so.6 and then line 99 loading stdc++.so.5
[14:41:55] <JWheeler> http://pastebin.com/m3cffa93b
[14:42:10] <Tempt> I'd try and build it for you
[14:42:14] <Cyrille> seanmcg, according to the gdb backtrace, there aren't any parameters in add_and_exchange
[14:42:14] <Tempt> but you wouldn't like my binaries
[14:42:41] <Cyrille> so pstack is probably just printing whatever's around
[14:43:25] <legolas_w> What is content of Solaris starter kit? is some training material or it has the OS too?
[14:43:30] <Pietro_S> I fear that there is also stdc++ - sunCC but with stlport option
[14:44:00] <Tempt> legolas_w: Whole lot
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[14:44:45] <JWheeler> both libstdc++.so.5 & 6 come with CSWgcc3g++rt , if that's of any help
[14:44:59] <seanmcg> Cyrille: according to gdb, there's no args for a lot of func()s..  exchange_and_add takes two args me thinks from googling
[14:45:19] <Tempt> coool
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[14:45:27] <Tempt> I just found four 36Gb spindles on my heap
[14:45:29] <seanmcg> I don't put much trust in gdb...
[14:45:36] <Cyrille> seanmcg, yes you're right.
[14:45:45] <Cyrille> and 0 and -1 don't look like good args for it?
[14:46:21] <Cyrille> hmm no, the first one should be a pointer..
[14:46:32] <seanmcg> Cyrille; with exchange_and_add I'd have thought the args would be non-negative at least.
[14:46:54] <seanmcg> Cyrille; the first a pointer ?  Oops, null.  Passed garbage from above then..
[14:47:16] <Cyrille> seanmcg, most likely.
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[14:48:37] <JWheeler> ^^ Means that although it's libstdc++ showing up as crashing, the problem was in fact the application, as you suggested earlier Cyrille?
[14:49:23] <jmcp> legolas_w: the starter kit has Solaris EXpress, Schillix, Nexenta and Belenix
[14:49:36] <Gekkko[PDA]> i got my kit today
[14:49:49] <Gekkko[PDA]> it was 1 week early
[14:49:58] <Gekkko[PDA]> it has b58 on it >.<
[14:50:03] <Cyrille> JWheeler, still a possibility, yes.
[14:50:37] <Gekkko[PDA]> You'd think they would update it every 10 releases
[14:50:37] <boyd> I'm off to bed, night all
[14:50:40] <Gekkko[PDA]> bye
[14:51:10] <JWheeler> night bobbyz_zzz
[14:51:13] <JWheeler> boyd too
[14:51:58] <Cyrille> JWheeler, could you try and run it with a C locale for instance just to check if it still crashes?
[14:52:54] <Tempt> night boyd
[14:53:47] <JWheeler> Like this? [griffous@angelous:pkgs]LC_TIME=C /opt/csw/bin/easytag
[14:54:20] <JWheeler> (that died)
[14:54:28] <Cyrille> I'd try with LANG=C ...
[14:55:17] <JWheeler> boom. I don't know if it matters, but it's not dying immediately, only when I start browsing towards some MP3s for it to use
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[14:57:09] <Cyrille> well from the stack it looks like the problem occurs in the code used to parse the file. At some point that code must create an std::locale object, possibly to try and generate a localised message or something, that object goes out of scope, enters destructor and presumably at that point has the data it tries to apply exchange_and_add to already set to null.
[14:58:16] <JWheeler> Using my solaris 11 compiled (on this same machine) build, I get the same crash. So that's one more thing ruled out
[14:58:50] <Tempt> You need brendan's dtrace magic
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[14:59:30] <Tempt> I'd be sticking printf in the code by now if I cared.
[14:59:45] <seanmcg> ya, use brendan's dtrace (or your own) and say find what locale() is being passed and what locale() is passing to exchange_and_add()
[15:00:34] <WickedWicky> prolly some stupid character mocking you up
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[15:01:35] <WickedWicky> I had rhytmbox crashing a couple of times in the past by ID3 tags containing swedish o+: and all
[15:01:46] <WickedWicky> o + / actualy
[15:02:18] <Tempt> Wouldn't it be great if there was a language that fit entirely in 7 bit ASCII and everyone spoke it?
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[15:02:31] <WickedWicky> that'd be english, no?
[15:02:45] <micken> hmm booting up solaris express on a ultra 5 with 128m ram
[15:02:56] <micken> swaaap
[15:03:00] * WickedWicky is getting an ultra sparc 5 for free
[15:03:09] <JWheeler> I'm afraid I know no dtrace :/
[15:03:14] * Tempt watches WW boot Solaris on an SS20 and enjoy it
[15:03:23] <WickedWicky> ya
[15:03:30] <WickedWicky> 64MB memory, running Solaris 9
[15:03:35] <Tempt> How's that compiler going?
[15:03:42] <WickedWicky> yea good!
[15:03:47] <micken> yea solaris 9 is ok with low mem
[15:04:01] <WickedWicky> ss20 for the win
[15:04:11] <Tempt> soon to be more memory
[15:04:20] <WickedWicky> yes! thanks to you :D
[15:04:56] <Tempt> you should host some web content on it
[15:04:59] <micken> ... completing post install ...
[15:04:59] <legolas_w> In the starter kit download section I see 3 files, two zip files and one ISO image, is there any place that i can read about content of each file?
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[15:06:08] <WickedWicky> Tempt: I might really try this tomcat thingy :P
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[15:06:29] <Tempt> woah
[15:06:30] <Tempt> might work
[15:06:36] <Tempt> swappity-swap
[15:06:55] <WickedWicky> swapping for great justice
[15:07:02] <Tempt> urk, I think I've got 5 copies of tomcat on this box
[15:07:40] <Hystrix> it's called virtualization these days ;-)
[15:07:40] <Tempt> For great justice!
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[15:07:46] <Tempt> CATS - continually accessing the swap
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[15:10:59] <ket> heh
[15:11:20] <ket> have you upgraded to NEDfs yet?
[15:11:25] <ket> (not enough disk for swap!)
[15:12:03] <Tempt> Saw someone with a 15kRPM 146gb spindle in a unipack connected to an SS5 once
[15:12:06] <Tempt> primarily for swap
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[15:12:16] <Tempt> "when your machine swaps this much, it might as well be fast swap"
[15:12:30] <micken> solaris thinks that my 80GB disk is a 16GB disk
[15:13:11] <micken> *BSD uses the whole disk
[15:13:17] <Tempt> solaris laughs at your IDE disk
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[15:13:38] <micken> yea everything works fine on my U1
[15:13:45] <micken> scsi forever
[15:14:00] <e^ipi> nevada shouldn't install on your U1 at all
[15:14:10] <micken> I don't have a compatible scsi card ,, I think
[15:14:34] <micken> I don't try to install nevada on th u1
[15:14:48] <micken> I'm not that stupid :)
[15:14:51] <ket> Tempt: i have 147gb disks in a e2900.
[15:15:03] <Tempt> They ship with those disks
[15:15:10] <Tempt> so I'm not surprised.
[15:15:19] <Tempt> They stopped shipping 'em with 72s over a year ago
[15:15:20] <ket> Tempt: they can't hold enough swap
[15:15:42] * hile_ yawns tiredly, notes mornings are evil
[15:15:43] <ket> not that it ever HITS swap, but they still can't hold it unless i split the mirror. and gods help me if i need a core.
[15:16:22] <Tempt> How much RAM in that thing?
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[15:19:49] <Gekkko[PDA]> what sparc should i get??
[15:19:53] <Gekkko[PDA]> sunray?
[15:20:02] <Tempt> sunray's a thin client
[15:20:27] <Gekkko[PDA]> i never cease to embarrass myself.
[15:20:31] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol
[15:21:03] <Gekkko[PDA]> so.?
[15:21:10] <Tempt> You need a 6900
[15:21:11] <Tempt> at least
[15:21:28] <Gekkko[PDA]> 6900 what
[15:21:36] <Tempt> Sun Fire 6900
[15:21:39] <Tempt> Absolutely
[15:21:40] <Gekkko[PDA]> k
[15:21:51] <hile_> nonon, he needs an M9000
[15:22:13] <Tempt> No, Serengeti is much better in a home environment
[15:22:38] <Tempt> 384Gb of RAM should be enough for anybody.
[15:22:53] <hile_> you know, I'd be quite happy with even an M5000
[15:23:10] <legolas_w> 384 GB of RAM is enough to run Ebay server side softwares :O
[15:23:17] <micken> btw is any more scsi cards added to solaris recently ?
[15:23:23] <micken> drivers
[15:23:26] <micken> pci
[15:23:27] <Tempt> hile_: I'd take one for home.
[15:23:39] <Tempt> hile_: I'd rather an 890 though
[15:24:03] <hile_> A t2k would be fine though
[15:24:04] <renihs> hile_, the m5000 weighs at least 120kg
[15:24:11] <hile_> yes, i know
[15:24:12] <renihs> i had to carry one today
[15:24:13] <renihs> not funny
[15:24:14] <hile_> i've racked and stacked them :)
[15:24:23] <renihs> ya so you know what i mean :p
[15:24:31] <libkeise1> 120kg isn't that bad for a home server
[15:24:36] <renihs> :p
[15:24:37] <hile_> Tempt, why would you want an 890?
[15:24:47] <hile_> I've seen libkeisel's home :)
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[15:24:51] <hile_> that's not bad at all
[15:24:56] <trygvis> because he is a v880/v890 faboy
[15:24:57] <trygvis> fanboy
[15:25:10] <trygvis> I myself would like a t2000
[15:25:21] <Tempt> T2000 is too noisy.
[15:25:35] <Tempt> I'd like the 890 because I've already got the disks for it and don't want to have to use an external array again
[15:25:37] <Gekkko[PDA]> god, no scrollback
[15:25:39] <Gekkko[PDA]> >.>
[15:25:53] <Tempt> my 6 disk zpool fits nicely in the top bays of my 880, the 890 is just for the 2.1Ghz US-IV+
[15:26:07] <hile_> all my storage is on the SAN :)
[15:26:14] <ket> Tempt: 196gb, silly.
[15:26:51] <ket> the t2000 is loud as hell, and throws hotter air than a fully kitted e2900.
[15:27:02] <Gekkko[PDA]> what's the optimal minimum ram?
[15:27:06] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol
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[15:28:14] <leal> hello all..
[15:28:23] <Gekkko[PDA]> hi you
[15:29:23] <leal> i'm trying to implement a agent on SC 3.2, and i think a dependency is not working... there is a command to see the dependency for a resource?
[15:30:03] <leal> somebody knows Sun Cluster?
[15:30:14] <ket> yeeeeeeeees...
[15:30:23] <ket> trying very hard to FORGET it, mind you...
[15:31:25] <Tempt> Yes, I like SunCluster.
[15:31:45] <Tempt> Gekkko[PDA]: I wouldn't get a machine with less than 16Gb in this day and age - you might want to run GNOME
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[15:31:54] <MoonPatrol> Hey people that give a shit! Solaris 10 = pwnage
[15:32:01] <richlowe> Tempt: low blow.
[15:32:10] <ket> Tempt: i liked it up to the point that i actually tried to USE it.
[15:32:11] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol Tempt
[15:32:28] <ket> Tempt: you know, as sun 'intended'? that's when the screaming started. and the gratutious calls to panic() and sync()
[15:33:03] <Gekkko[PDA]> how much will 16gb ram set me back
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[15:33:05] <Tempt> ket: You mean the fencing, right?
[15:33:24] <leal> Tempt: any ideas? have you tryied build some agent before?
[15:33:25] <ket> Tempt: and QFS and AIO and such
[15:33:28] <Tempt> After VCS, SunCluster looks like it was built by Digital
[15:33:47] <ket> Tempt: wait, digital's SOFTWARE people or digital's HARDWARE people? because if you're dissing the hardware i break your skull.
[15:33:54] <Tempt> leal: Everything is different in 3.2, I did my time on 3.1
[15:33:55] <leal> Tempt: btw, i got a N95 :)
[15:33:58] <Tempt> leal: scstat should tell all.
[15:34:13] <Tempt> leal: Nokia N95?
[15:34:20] <leal> yes
[15:34:26] <Tempt> leal: Nice, I really like those.
[15:34:44] <leal> we are talking about that other day... remember?
[15:34:50] <ket> Tempt: the alpha was an awesome cpu. it's just that everything that ran on it should have been killed, by shooting the persons who gave birth to it.
[15:35:16] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol.
[15:35:24] <Gekkko[PDA]> Windows.
[15:35:40] <MoonPatrol> ket: you know you loved VMS
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[15:35:47] <Tempt> TruCluster
[15:35:51] <Tempt> Find a better UNIX cluster
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[15:36:10] <Tempt> leal: Oh, that's right. I'm a little tired. How much did it set you back in the end?
[15:36:11] <Gekkko[PDA]> why was i kicked?
[15:36:27] <Gekkko[PDA]> >.>
[15:36:30] <MoonPatrol> (9:35:28 AM) Gekkko[PDA] left the room.
[15:36:34] <Tempt> [23:35] Gekkko[PDA] [n=upirc@unaffiliated/gekkko] has left #opensolaris []
[15:36:36] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol odd.
[15:36:47] <Gekkko[PDA]> i hate upirc >.>
[15:36:53] <leal> Tempt: that's is a great phone!
[15:36:58] <Tempt> Use irsii for great justice
[15:37:10] <Gekkko[PDA]> No shell.
[15:37:13] <Tempt> leal: I'll steal it from you.
[15:37:17] <ket> Tempt: hee hee.
[15:37:20] <Gekkko[PDA]> stop teasing me.
[15:37:25] <Gekkko[PDA]> <3 irssi.
[15:37:49] <Pietro_S> is there any way how to force some app (netbeans) to unswap completely?
[15:38:00] <Tempt> netbeans?
[15:38:06] <Gekkko[PDA]> rm -rf?
[15:38:13] <Gekkko[PDA]> :P
[15:38:14] <Tempt> kill -9
[15:38:21] <ket> don't install it?
[15:39:04] <Pietro_S> I was on lunch and netbeans was moved to swap, and now when I do some acction which I yet didn't done, it takes ages cause of swap :-(
[15:39:49] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol.
[15:41:08] <Pietro_S> also it would be nice if one terminal was marked as *unable to swap* ...
[15:41:13] <Tempt> Gekkko[PDA]: I'd give you a shell account but I don't have time to fly to Sydney to kick your arse when I catch you tooling around trying to pwn random strangers hosts from my nice clean machine.
[15:41:34] <Tempt> Pietro_S: Buy more RAM. It got swapped for a reason.
[15:41:45] <Gekkko[PDA]> I'm not begging for a shell.
[15:42:01] <Gekkko[PDA]> Nor have I ever DDoS'd
[15:42:21] <WickedWicky> I denied Dos
[15:42:31] <Gekkko[PDA]> I'm no script kiddy.
[15:42:37] <Tempt> Gekkko[PDA]: Get a free shell on the deathrow cluster
[15:43:11] <WickedWicky> or! let's get coffee!
[15:43:13] <MoonPatrol> <3 Deathrow
[15:43:38] <Tempt> I'm thinking I'll put my Alpha online for all
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[15:43:46] <WickedWicky> woa
[15:43:47] <Tempt> It has more grunt than the entire deathrow cluster
[15:43:58] <WickedWicky> where is the humour these days?
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[15:46:18] <Tempt> WickedWicky: Gone on holiday. Built any binaries yet?
[15:46:59] <trygvis> Pietro_S: press the garbage collect button
[15:50:14] <WickedWicky> Tempt: trying some things out but this thing called work is interfering
[15:50:29] <WickedWicky> I wanna work for a company where I can work with sparc all days :s
[15:51:09] <Tempt> WickedWicky: What do you do there, anyway?
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[15:52:28] <Tempt> geez, that scared him
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[15:53:46] <patrick_> of course working with sparcs is of no use when you dont plug your AC adapter into your laptop
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[16:00:34] <flyingparchment> new installer seems really slow, i don't remember the old one taking this long
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[16:13:43] <richlowe> flyingparchment: you used the old one?
[16:13:52] <richlowe> (the old DE installer, that is)
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[16:16:30] <anilg> does 'df -h' round the free space to floor or ceil (would if be safe to mkfile a file the free size??)
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[16:19:16] <Stric> ceil++ I think
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[16:23:03] <anilg> guess i'll look into src.opensolaris.org
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[16:31:59] <Tempt> anilg: That's the spirit!
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[16:34:05] <Teknix> what kernel build is developer edition using?
[16:34:24] <flyingparchment> richlowe: the old proper installer
[16:34:30] <flyingparchment> text mode
[16:35:34] <richlowe> Yeah, so part of that slowness would be installing studio, no?
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[16:36:13] <flyingparchment> apparently, the new one misses pesky, unneeded features like configuring the network
[16:36:14] <seanmcg> and the whole jes stack ?
[16:39:44] <richlowe> flyingparchment: defaults to nwam
[16:39:53] <richlowe> so did the old DE installer, for the last DE
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[16:42:15] <flyingparchment>   i don't think 'defaults to' is the right word.  maybe 'forces you to' :)
[16:42:43] <richlowe> Yeah, well, I always try to be polite, right?
[16:43:36] <flyingparchment> if sun wants to work on accessibility, they should add a dvorak keymap
[16:43:45] <ket> they should fix ksh
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[16:44:41] <richlowe> flyingparchment: what you do is, you say "alanc: Deliver setxkbmap, damnit!"
[16:44:44] <WickedWicky> awww, my boss is so sweet, he offers me to go on Solaris 10 system administration training
[16:44:49] <richlowe> flyingparchment: because they do, just no convenient way to set it.
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[16:45:10] <flyingparchment> i don't believe setxbmap affects the console
[16:45:40] <richlowe> sod the console ;)
[16:45:54] <richlowe> wait, I said I try to be polite.
[16:45:57] <richlowe> "don't sod the console"
[16:46:15] <WickedWicky> "intercourse the console"
[16:46:20] <WickedWicky> that's pretty polite
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[17:20:16] <lxx_ne_lol> Hi! I can't install OpSol CE b57 because kernell don't want load fully.... Help...
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[17:21:36] <g4lt-mordant> right, that's more than enough information to diagnose
[17:22:24] * ket consults his crystal ball
[17:22:36] <ket> user hazy, try again later?
[17:23:40] <flyingparchment> why does milestone/network depend on nwam?
[17:23:53] * ket sighs and tries to figure out how to cleanly cope with this idiocy sun appears to have caused in ksh
[17:24:07] <flyingparchment> oic, need another network/physical instance
[17:24:54] <stevel> what idiocy?
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[17:25:50] <ket> stevel: one sec... i need a paste site.
[17:26:01] <micken> just booted belenix on my macmini :)
[17:26:46] <micken> doesn't solaris support fw ?
[17:27:12] <g4lt-mordant> what are you going on about?
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[17:27:36] <ket> stevel: http://www.privatepaste.com/4a85k36sm3
[17:28:34] <micken> who me ?
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[17:28:59] <stevel> that's weird
[17:29:07] <stevel> i would have expected TARGETS[1] & TARGETS[2] to be switched
[17:29:09] <ket> stevel: it's also completely reproducable repeatedly.
[17:29:31] <ket> stevel: i would have expected an array size of 2, *NOT* 24
[17:29:39] <stevel> yes. that too :)
[17:29:49] <ket> especially since it's 22 entries of CR, no joke.
[17:30:17] <ket> munin:root> print ${TARGETS[2]} > tmpfile
[17:30:18] <ket> munin:root> cat -vet tmpfile
[17:30:18] <ket> $
[17:30:40] <flyingparchment> nfs mount: fae:/home: NFS Version 3 not supported
[17:30:44] <flyingparchment> ... what?
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[17:30:56] <g4lt-mordant> micken, yes you.  "doesn't solaris support fw?"  given that there are Sun-branded machines with firewire on them, wha tdo you think?
[17:32:04] <ket> stevel: i was tearing my hair out, because i could not figure out why the script went completely batshit and was spitting back as though it wasn't passing args at me.
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[17:33:19] <flyingparchment> is DE's studio suitable for building ON?
[17:33:42] <stevel> flyingparchment: no
[17:33:43] <sommerfeld> flyingparchment: ON is currently built with studio 11, not studio 12
[17:34:02] <flyingparchment> why would a developer edition not include a compiler you can't use to develop it?
[17:34:42] * stevel refrains from answering
[17:34:43] <stevel> :-P
[17:34:50] <sommerfeld> flyingparchment: some of us ask the same question.  the answer we get is that marketing thinks that the DE is for people developing other software for solaris-family systems.
[17:35:17] <stevel> developing software ON solaris, as opposed to developing opensolaris itself
[17:35:20] <ket> flyingparchment: the reason is because sun wants your money and couldn't come up with a better way to screw you into having to give it to them.
[17:35:40] <flyingparchment> ket: that makes no sense, since it doesn't cost anything
[17:35:41] <stevel> ket: .... except Sun doesn't charge any money for it
[17:35:50] <ket> now that the objadedcrankybitter answer is out of the way ;)
[17:35:51] <sommerfeld> ket: please adjust your tinfoil hat slightly.
[17:36:03] <ket> what sommerfeld said is it
[17:36:10] <Nishaway> sommerfield <- Any patches in SS12 to build ON yet?
[17:36:17] <ket> stevel: i know ;P
[17:36:22] <ket> i'm -joking-
[17:36:38] <kjetilho> ket: you need to write ${#TARGETS[*]}, I thought
[17:36:48] <kjetilho> otherwise you'll just get the length of the first element
[17:36:55] <sommerfeld> ket: your tinfoil hat really was amplifying the incoming mind control rays?
[17:36:59] * g4lt-mordant cocks his tinfoil hat at a jaunty angle
[17:37:04] <ket> kjetilho: except A) not the length of the first element
[17:37:09] <ket> kjetilho: B) both should work
[17:37:34] <kjetilho> ket: btw, why not simply: declare -a TARGETS=(//export/home/*/mrtg)
[17:37:51] <ket> kjetilho: because that makes the rest real ugly.
[17:38:17] <kjetilho> expr length /export/home/usera/mrtg/
[17:38:17] <kjetilho> 24
[17:38:36] <kjetilho> ugly, how so?
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[17:39:02] <ket> obviously i can't count today. :P
[17:39:17] <ket> kjetilho: trust me, REAL fugly.. it's a badly complex walker script.
[17:39:17] <sommerfeld> Nishaway: so, it's more complicated than that.  this is not specific to solaris -- i've seen it with other systems.  moving an OS build between compiler revisions is something that requires care.  More often than not, you need to make code changes to the OS *and* patch a few compiler bugs..
[17:45:00] <Nishaway> sommerfeld: Ok. I'll relay this as in order to make ON compilable on SS12 may break SS11 compiles with ON temporarily.
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[17:53:23] <Teknix> has anyone been able to do a pxegrub boot of a recent release?   b61 works but b64a doesn't, and b70's miniroot is too big
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[18:04:44] <Pietro_S> sommerfeld: so branch ON to make it ss12 compatible? The question is if there is enough motivation to move it to ss12 ...
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[18:06:02] <axisys> pkginfo -l SUNWnxge says Sun x8 10G/1G Ethernet Adapter Driver .. but it does not switch to 1G.. according to this http://rafb.net/p/6Gsver29.html it should
[18:06:11] <Tempt> It'll move to SS12 anyway. Just wait.
[18:07:47] <stevel> branching ON is non-trivial
[18:08:19] <axisys> I installed the sun 10g card on t2000
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[18:08:57] <axisys> but not successful to make it talk in 1g even after ndd setup
[18:09:08] <richlowe> stevel: eh?
[18:09:14] <richlowe> stevel: hundreds of people do it daily ;)
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[18:09:40] <stevel> phbt
[18:09:51] <stevel> i assume he meant creating a new canonical branch of ON
[18:09:58] <richlowe> Oh, sod that.
[18:10:14] <richlowe> doesn't pete have the changes in flight already anyway?
[18:10:17] <stevel> i believe so
[18:10:54] <richlowe> if the DE folks choose to ship the wrong compilers against the advice of, say, everybody, that's their problem.
[18:11:50] <stevel> that's not true
[18:12:00] <stevel> it was (everybody - (people who made the decision))
[18:12:03] <stevel> :-P
[18:12:36] <stevel> unless that (people who made the decision) set had multiple personalities
[18:12:39] <stevel> in which case, yes.
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[18:13:53] <nayyares> hey
[18:14:41] <g4lt-mordant> stevel, well, they had to have some sort of mental malfunction
[18:16:24] <nayyares> is there any package in solaris, that can dump/track traffic between two servers including packet headers?
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[18:19:01] <Tempt> nayyares: snoop
[18:19:45] <nayyares> snoop can read the headers !, Tempt
[18:20:19] <Tempt> What are you trying to find out, anyway?
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[18:21:31] <Tempt> And snoop can definately read all the headers going into/out of the host
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[18:23:16] <coffman> is this normal for nwam in b70 : http://pastebin.ca/666967 ?
[18:23:40] <coffman> tough it works if i log in as root
[18:23:50] <Tempt> urrk
[18:23:51] <Tempt> nasty
[18:24:35] <coffman> yeah
[18:25:11] <nayyares> Tempt: in fact my oracle RAC nodes are not synchronizing, i think they are confused with the ports , so i need to read the header and wants to know whats actually going on beteen them.
[18:25:41] <coffman> where does the secrets get stored for wep/wpa these days?
[18:26:11] <coffman> and dladm should realy show the wlan channel
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[18:28:18] <Tempt> nayyares: snoop -vvi interfacename
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[18:29:57] <nayyares> hmm. Tempt thanks
[18:30:17] * coffman realy feels like the magnet for stupid bugs
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[18:34:07] <WickedWickeh> bitches
[18:34:13] <WickedWickeh> openssl @ freesunware is for ultrasparc
[18:34:14] <WickedWickeh> bah
[18:34:19] <WickedWickeh> I'll have to compile it myself
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[18:36:16] <WickedWickeh> or use the 2.5 package
[18:38:51] <Tempt> umn
[18:38:57] <Tempt> no openssl in /usr/sfw?
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[18:39:23] <WickedWickeh> nopes
[18:39:50] <Tempt> What are you building that's dependant on ossl?
[18:40:09] <WickedWickeh> I installed the wget package from sfw
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[18:42:58] <WickedWickeh> I think they excluded the openssl-sol9 package due to it being compiled against a sun4u machine and solaris 9 is still sun4m compatible, would make sense
[18:45:39] <Tempt> When you say sfw do you mean the CD or the site?
[18:45:52] <WickedWickeh> in the last context, the CD
[18:45:55] <Tempt> and /usr/sfw/bin/wget exists on my Sol9 box
[18:46:09] <WickedWickeh> that's just weird
[18:46:31] <Tempt> my kwality v100
[18:46:41] <WickedWickeh> oh, maybe I didnt chose for the full installation + OEM
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[18:49:22] <Stric> my sol9 got sfw wget too, without openssl
[18:49:39] <WickedWickeh> weird then
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[18:49:47] <WickedWickeh> must be the package I downloaded from sunfreeware
[18:49:51] <WickedWickeh> hey
[18:49:54] <WickedWickeh> I am almost home
[18:49:57] <WickedWickeh> I'll be back after dinner
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[18:51:03] <micken> post install , over 2h :)
[18:51:12] <micken> still going strong
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[18:53:27] <mbalmer> evenin
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[18:55:28] <Tempt> night all
[18:55:32] <Tempt> nearly 3am = offline
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[19:05:30] <ruchir> hello guys
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[19:28:17] <axisys>
[19:28:33] <axisys> ruchirb: hi
[19:28:51] <ruchirb> hello
[19:28:54] <ruchirb> whatsup
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[19:33:38] <ruchirb> there's so much silence here :D
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[19:34:25] * coffman screams
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[19:39:38] <axisys> anyone knws how I can force 1g speed on a sun 10g card
[19:39:55] <axisys> i tried the ndds and still showing 10g
[19:40:40] <axisys> i tried this http://rafb.net/p/6Gsver29.html and no go
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[19:44:29] <palowoda> axisys:  gld3 maybe dladm setlink-prop ?
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[19:46:42] <axisys> palowoda: dladm show-dev shows 10g .. i dont see any setlink option
[19:47:55] <seanmcg> axisys whats the switch its going into ?
[19:48:19] <axisys> seanmcg: currently i am doing loop back.. no switch involved..
[19:48:37] <axisys> seanmcg: less things to troubleshoot
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[19:49:13] <seanmcg> how long is your fibre cable ?
[19:49:26] <axisys> seanmcg: about 2 meters
[19:49:38] <seanmcg> that could be too short.  Really.
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[19:49:53] <wesolows> 2m is the minimum for most cables
[19:50:00] <karrotx__> i hve a usb drive that shows up in dmesg but not in format (after I run devfsadm)
[19:50:13] <karrotx__> is this drive not going to work, or is there somethign i'm missing?
[19:50:23] <axisys> seanmcg: check this out http://rafb.net/p/Wvnvmd53.html
[19:50:44] <ket> actually it depends on the optics.
[19:50:46] <axisys> it sees a connection complete..
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[19:50:53] <ket> if it's fiber sx 2m is fine, if it's fiber lx it's too short.
[19:51:00] <wesolows> yeah...the long reach single-mode needs more than 2m
[19:51:24] <ket> also depends on the card, cable, etcetera. wavelengths correct, compatible transcievers, etcetera.
[19:51:29] <seanmcg> nxge has lx, I think...
[19:51:34] * ket likes fiber more than scsi. he gets to sacrifice twice as many goats and chickens.
[19:51:41] <ket> and that's for an EASY install.
[19:51:45] <wesolows> nxge doesn't come with optics; we sell SR and LR
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[19:52:12] <seanmcg> ya, wesolows, forgot about the gbics..
[19:52:15] <axisys> i know i am using the right connector
[19:52:15] <ket> wesolows: bear in mind i use sx/lx as generics where x is one of 'r,m,s,x' depending
[19:52:36] <ket> axisys: but did you check your wavelengths?
[19:52:37] <axisys> its the orange cable
[19:52:43] <wesolows> oh, it's orange
[19:52:51] <wesolows> well, that tells you everything
[19:52:58] <axisys> orange and yellow
[19:53:05] <axisys> orange is lx and yellow is sx
[19:53:11] <axisys> or is it other way around
[19:53:14] <wesolows> huh?  no
[19:53:16] <axisys> dont remember
[19:53:33] <wesolows> I've seen lots of yellow LR and orange SR but I don't think that's actually a rule
[19:53:38] <seanmcg> I've got orange cables, both lx and sx..
[19:53:40] <axisys> ket: i think 8000 nm or something
[19:53:41] <wesolows> yeah
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[19:54:06] <seanmcg> thick orange and thin orange..
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[19:54:35] <axisys> brb.. let me go to the lab and double check
[19:54:36] <axisys> one sec
[19:54:39] <seanmcg> and easily fecking breakable ends on the fibre.
[19:55:05] <ket> orange is short yellow is long, that actually is a standard. just not everyone follows it.
[19:55:06] <wesolows> it should say somthing like multimode 62.5um or single-mode 50.0um or whatever
[19:55:09] <ket> like 568a/568b
[19:55:18] <ket> and yes, 62.5/100, 62.5/150 etc
[19:55:37] <ket> also helps to know the GBICs at each end
[19:56:17] <seanmcg> axisys: is one end of the fibre cable actually twisted to 'make the loop' in one of the nxge ports ?  just ruling out things
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[19:58:46] <sommerfeld> the thing that surprised me was that folks doing within-building fiber hookups seem to be okay using the "please do not look into laser with remaining eyeball" approach to sorting out which way to hook things up having any convention for which fiber is which in a pair..
[19:58:55] <stevel> karrotx: rmformat ?
[19:58:55] <sommerfeld> err, "instead of"
[19:59:21] <karrotx__> stevel: i haven't tried that, i will
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[19:59:42] <ket> sommerfeld: i use the keyed connectors for a -reason-.
[19:59:50] <karrotx__> stevel: thank you, it shows up there
[20:00:07] <ket> that being, i have NO idea what possible jackass that shouldn't even be allowed to LOOK at a punchdown tool may be touching them.
[20:00:43] <axisys> seanmcg: yes twisted .. or the link light wont come up .. ofcourse!
[20:01:09] <sommerfeld> the guys who pull fiber in this building seem to like putting single-fiber ST connectors on the patch panels.
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[20:01:31] <axisys> sommerfeld: i would my cell phone camera to look at the light to be safe
[20:01:36] <axisys> s/would/use/
[20:01:39] <ket> sommerfeld: i have patch cables i haven't been able to disconnect, which are quite literally tied in knots.
[20:01:57] <ket> sommerfeld: and that's okay except that they're usually very TIGHT knots and also knotted up around or in ethernet cables
[20:02:00] <sommerfeld> they needed extra attenuation
[20:02:12] <kjetilho> axisys: if it is strong, just shine it on your skin or some paper
[20:02:14] <axisys> ok so i have thin orange yello cable connected to the short reach transiever 850nm wave lenght
[20:02:27] <axisys> kjetilho: or that :-)
[20:02:29] <kjetilho> if it's not strong enough, you can look at it :-)
[20:02:34] <ket> sommerfeld: nah, they were actually experimenting with moebius strips in drive loops i think
[20:02:39] <axisys> s/yellow//
[20:02:52] <sommerfeld> have a band-aid handy in case it's really strong,
[20:03:07] <axisys> so cant i force 1g ?
[20:03:12] <axisys> still shows 10g
[20:04:02] * ket gets out the cisco oc48 MATE cables
[20:04:22] <karrotx__> stevel: the drive says it's busy when i run newfs on it
[20:04:28] <karrotx__> is there a way to tell what it's talking about?
[20:05:24] <seanmcg> axisys: you've done the ndd on both nxge ports right ?  The pastebin just shows it done for nxge0
[20:05:43] <stevel> do you have it mounted?
[20:06:36] <karrotx__> stevel: no
[20:06:41] <karrotx__> unless it auto mounted itself
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[20:06:51] <axisys> seanmcg: yes i did it only for nxge0
[20:06:53] <stevel> it might have
[20:07:02] <stevel> does it show up in 'mount' or 'df'?
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[20:07:39] <karrotx__> stevel: nope
[20:07:52] <karrotx__> this is mac's HFS too
[20:07:57] <karrotx__> i'm not sure if solaris supports that?
[20:08:09] <karrotx__> i'm trying to run newfs on it to put ufs on there
[20:08:13] <axisys> seanmcg: just checked also did it for nxge1
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[20:09:01] <axisys> also configured the /kernel/drv/nxge.conf same way http://rafb.net/p/nGX5Oj52.html
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[20:09:32] <seanmcg> looks like it could be a bug then..
[20:09:35] <axisys> so what am I doing wrong? ?
[20:09:44] <axisys> seanmcg: just created a ticket w/ SUN
[20:09:49] <axisys> lets see what they have to say
[20:09:59] <axisys> i will share it here ofcourse@
[20:10:04] <seanmcg> ah, your on an s10 update then ?-)
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[20:10:27] <axisys> seanmcg: yes u3
[20:10:39] <palowoda> Maybe why he does have the features in dladm.
[20:11:23] <palowoda> doesn't
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[20:12:19] <stevel> karrotx: try trussing rmformat to see why it thinks it's busy
[20:13:36] <seanmcg> axisys: you don't have a switch to try it with ?
[20:13:59] <coffman> you know that you got a lot of noise on opensolaris-discuss?
[20:14:16] <coffman> and certain people even out of this channel are part of it ...
[20:14:21] * WickedWicky raises hand
[20:14:22] <axisys> seanmcg: i have a cisco 6500
[20:14:27] <WickedWicky> hello coffman :P
[20:14:43] <WickedWicky> I made the mistake of posting there, and I totaly regret it
[20:14:44] <ket> axisys: that is approximately as useful as 'i have a cisco mds' just fyi.
[20:15:03] <axisys> but it does not get link up when i connect to cisco.. because cisco 6500 running an older ios and cannot hard code the speed
[20:15:22] <coffman> well
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[20:15:37] <axisys> and with autoneg on cisco switch link on either side (host or switch) wont come up
[20:15:42] <coffman> i scrolled serval pages in this one stupid thread
[20:15:48] <coffman> it goes forever
[20:15:51] <axisys> ket: hence i left it out of the equation for now
[20:15:54] <WickedWicky> what thread?
[20:16:07] <ket> axisys: actually that's exactly why it matters
[20:16:24] <ket> could be blade, could be supervisor, could be ios..
[20:16:31] <ket> 10ge is so immature it's not even funny
[20:16:45] <coffman> "An Open Letter to the Solaris Community"
[20:16:48] <WickedWicky> oh
[20:16:50] <WickedWicky> Ohhhhhhhhhhhh
[20:16:54] <WickedWicky> no, I am not part of that one
[20:17:03] <WickedWicky> but I think I know who you're talking about
[20:17:19] <ket> is it from linus?
[20:17:38] <WickedWicky> w00t
[20:17:48] <WickedWicky> pkgtool build --download SFEscreen.spec
[20:17:49] <WickedWicky> real     3:21.1
[20:17:49] <WickedWicky> user     1:04.5
[20:17:49] <WickedWicky> sys      1:41.0
[20:18:01] <coffman> oO
[20:18:06] <coffman> you suck!
[20:18:13] <axisys> ket: well I get link light with a loop back connection
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[20:18:35] <WickedWicky> oh wait
[20:18:35] <ket> axisys: on the card -and- the cisco? sure.
[20:18:37] <WickedWicky> it fails :P
[20:18:44] <WickedWicky> this is just for the ./configure part
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[20:18:44] <ket> wouldn't pass QC if it didn't do that
[20:18:45] <WickedWicky> haha
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[20:19:01] <axisys> ket: i looped the cable back from one transceiver to the other.. no switch involved
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[20:19:30] <axisys> ket: it recognizes as 10g link up .. here is the messages file
[20:20:08] <axisys> ket: http://rafb.net/p/ZOSxsr23.html
[20:22:35] <coffman> WickedWicky: ## Packaging complete.
[20:22:35] <coffman> 2098 blocks
[20:22:35] <coffman> /opt/PMp/share/pmpkg: /opt/PMp/desktop/screen/pkg/PMscreen/install/i.none: cannot create
[20:22:39] <coffman> pmpkg all  23.22s user 3.44s system 38% cpu 1:08.51 total
[20:22:50] <WickedWicky> gah
[20:23:02] <coffman> your system sucks :P so does sfe
[20:23:13] <WickedWicky> it's a 75Mhz Supersparc
[20:23:16] <WickedWicky> what do  you expect?
[20:23:40] <coffman> get ride of it?
[20:23:43] <WickedWicky> NO
[20:23:50] <WickedWicky> pebbles is cute
[20:23:59] <WickedWicky> Soon I'll get an Ultra 5, for free
[20:24:50] <mbalmer> wee, superfast....
[20:24:54] <coffman> give it to a museum and put the ultra 5 on some train rails or something
[20:24:55] <WickedWicky> no
[20:24:56] <WickedWicky> but who cares
[20:25:03] <WickedWicky> bah @ you all
[20:25:08] <mbalmer> ;)
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[20:29:58] * WickedWicky is hurt and will eat a milka bar
[20:30:19] <WickedWicky> actually I think I will be hurt in 90 minutes when this soccer game is done
[20:30:23] <kjetilho> WickedWicky: promise me you'll get rid of the SS20
[20:30:29] <WickedWicky> no
[20:30:53] <kjetilho> it's not even a 4 CPU Ross 125 MHz version
[20:31:17] <WickedWicky> no, it can be a 4 CPU Ross 200Mhz with 512MB though
[20:31:31] <kjetilho> that would be nice :)
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[20:31:52] <kjetilho> won't you get problems with heat at 200 MHz?
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[20:32:25] <WickedWicky> Not sure about that. What i know is that a SS20 can potentialy be upgraded to a 4 way 200Mhz
[20:32:30] <seanmcg> axisys: wondering if anyways have you tried anything with the nxge card in its current state ?
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[20:43:07] <micken> when login first time , and it says completing post install setup , what does it do ?
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[20:56:47] <axisys> seanmcg: what u mean?
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[21:00:36] <CIA-21> georges: 6554738 pollsys isn't woken up even after connection indication delivered to stream head on AF_UNIX socket
[21:00:37] <CIA-21> fw157321: 6586847 prtdiag with no option doesn't show failures in -v output
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[21:02:20] <millhouse> hey
[21:03:50] <seanmcg> axisys: like sending data over it in interesting ways :)  some benchmarking of your own ?
[21:04:31] * seanmcg is away: food beckons
[21:04:35] <hrlmec> I'm trying to install Solaris 10 on a server with no network capabilty.  I'm trying to do a flash archive install from a flash drive...but how do I get the flash drive device name (/dev/dsk/????)?
[21:05:01] <trygvis> a _server_ with _no net_? :)
[21:05:06] <axisys> seanmcg: oh i c.. no i am dont have a route yet.. cisco switch is my gw and it negotiate to 10g.. it can only go 1g
[21:05:09] <hrlmec> just temporarily lol
[21:05:19] <trygvis> :)
[21:05:20] <axisys> it wont negotiate.. i meant
[21:05:56] <hrlmec> how do i find the device name at install time?
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[21:12:02] <axisys> i got a zone issue
[21:12:44] <axisys> i can ping the gw from global zone but not from local zone.. they are in same network http://rafb.net/p/W2bjko47.html
[21:13:11] <axisys> i created the local zone interface using dladm
[21:13:53] <ket> mmmhmm.
[21:13:58] * ket sees the problem
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[21:18:28] <e^ipi> much better... no more stupid pressurized portafilter on my espresso machine
[21:18:29] * quasi thinks he sees the problem
[21:18:37] <palowoda> Hmm, well learning how to do some dual frame screen casts I ran into this good example. http://www.zefrank.com/punc/
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[21:20:35] <sommerfeld> e^ipi: discovered recently that small fragments of coffee were accumulating in the valve on mine.  (disassembled one, thought that a washer had fallen apart on me, but on disassembling the other one realized that the "washer" was actually compressed fine particles of coffee)
[21:21:07] *** hrlmec has quit IRC
[21:21:07] <axisys> network not working from local zone but dladm looks kosher to me http://rafb.net/p/vjIhEz70.html
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[21:21:55] *** MattGYM is now known as MattMan
[21:22:23] <e^ipi> sommerfeld: I just think pressurized portafilters are dishonest so i fixed mine
[21:23:03] <e^ipi> I could also buy the saeco unpressurized portafilter, but this way's easier
[21:24:22] <millhouse> is there anyway to remap a device?  i have a solaris box with 5 iscsi nodes (running OpenSolaris).  But when the nodes are mapped as devices they end up with really long controller ID's
[21:27:31] <kjetilho> why do you care?
[21:27:50] <kjetilho> isn't hidden inside ZFS or SVM?
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[21:28:02] <boro> hello
[21:28:10] <millhouse> they're just really long, and it'd be nice to shorten them
[21:28:39] <ofu> benr had an article about renaming iscsi devices
[21:28:58] <sommerfeld> millhouse: it's something i've griped about.  with FC you can turn off mpxio but I haven't looked at iscsi yet.
[21:30:12] <boro>  /usr/lib/krb5/kadmind -d
[21:30:12] <boro> kadmind:Cannot initialize GSS-API authentication.
[21:30:18] <boro> anyone has idea why ?
[21:32:09] <kjetilho> millhouse: when do you seen the name, though?
[21:32:32] <kjetilho> the /devices name is really long, too, but I don't worry about it
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[21:35:09] * nrubsig will implode on the next email which beggs for shell providers in the shell-which-shall-not-be-named
[21:35:16] <millhouse> i see the names when I do 'format'
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[21:36:19] * nrubsig looks at Tpenta
[21:36:59] <nrubsig> What's gman's email again ?
[21:37:43] <e^ipi> glynn.foster at sun dot com would be my first assumption
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[21:38:30] <nrubsig> e^ipi: thanks! :-)
[21:39:19] * quasi starts submitting that email to a couple of spam lists
[21:43:04] <stevel> nrubsig: i'm looking into the opengrok server issue you reported now
[21:43:23] <stevel> for the future, website-discuss would be the more appropriate list to send this sort of issue to
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[21:43:42] <nrubsig> stevel: erm
[21:43:45] <nrubsig> stevel: thanks :---)
[21:44:05] <nrubsig> stevel: I know about website-discuss@ but I think you don't want me there...
[21:44:17] * quasi wonders where he can donate $1 for sun to buy themselves a larger computer to run sunsolve
[21:44:26] <nrubsig> stevel: ... I would constantly bitching&&wailing about Jive forth and back
[21:44:38] <stevel> i place a lot higher priority on reading website-discuss than opensolaris-discuss - so this sort of problem report will reach my eyes a lot quicker
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[21:45:12] <nrubsig> stevel: does that mean I can get you to fix Jive email generation bugs via emailing website-discuss@ ?
[21:45:20] <stevel> no
[21:45:23] <stevel> i won't touch jive
[21:45:23] <stevel> :)
[21:45:33] *** boro has quit IRC
[21:45:55] <nrubsig> stevel: and when I CC: your manager, his manager, the manager of your managers manager, Jonathan Schwartz and your wife ?
[21:46:20] *** Murmuria has joined #opensolaris
[21:46:25] <stevel> feel free - but my wife will come down on my side, and trust me when i say you don't want to anger a surgeon with a scalpel
[21:46:28] *** alanc-away is now known as alanc
[21:47:47] <nrubsig> stevel: I can beat back with 12 komodo dragon pullies (well, they're 40cm-50cm... but they still can BITE) ...
[21:47:56] <nrubsig> s/pullies/puppies/
[21:48:00] * alanc is almost tempted to put dtrace providers into dtksh just to see nrubsig's head explode
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[21:48:10] <stevel> three words: angry. woman. scalpel.
[21:48:13] <alanc> almost...but not quite insane enough to actually try
[21:48:34] <quasi> alanc: I'll buy you a beer or two if you do
[21:48:55] <nrubsig> alanc: komodo dragons or killer wife ?
[21:49:09] <quasi> 3 if you manage to get a video of his head exploding ;)
[21:49:58] <nrubsig> !summon -mode=tentacle kupfer
[21:50:33] <axisys> just recvd my free netbeans 5.5.1 cd
[21:50:55] <alanc> nrubsig: my wife has no scalpels
[21:51:25] <alanc> though we are visiting her family soon, where she'll have access to dental drills
[21:51:39] <stevel> my wife has access to both :(
[21:51:43] <nrubsig> alanc: erm... I was talking about stevel's scapel-wielding killer-frankenstein^2 wife
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[21:53:28] <mbalmer> any opensolaris X developers at XDS2007?
[21:53:59] <sudinf> Murmuria: hi
[21:54:09] <nrubsig> mbalmer: Are you Mr. M$-Balmer's son ?
[21:54:17] <sudinf> Murmuria: ping
[21:54:31] <nrubsig> alanc: Do you have time to watch the bugs.opensolaris.org bug triage queue ?
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[21:55:21] <mbalmer> nrubsig, are you rubber duck's son?
[21:55:37] <Murmuria> sudinf: hi!
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[21:57:09] <Murmuria> sudinf: have we spoken before?
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[21:57:42] <nrubsig> mbalmer: no, I am descending from Satan himself...
[21:57:52] <nrubsig> mbalmer: FEAR ME!
[21:57:57] <mbalmer> good for you...
[21:57:59] <nrubsig> =:-)
[21:58:10] * nrubsig giggles
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[21:58:27] <stevel> g'afternoon glynn
[21:59:24] <Gman> hey stevel
[22:00:14] <seanmcg> hey Gman, apols for any mess on that bash buggie..  thought I'd try and clean it up and went the wrong way a bit..
[22:00:39] <alanc> nrubsig: I should be around for a little bit, and the mails arrive in my inbox whether I'm watching or not
[22:00:45] <Gman> seanmcg, haven't read my mail, but no worries either way - sounds like ahl knows the problem anyway
[22:00:56] <mbalmer> so no solaris people in cambridge?
[22:01:14] <pjlv> Is cvs.opensolaris.org/source/search broken? I am getting this:
[22:01:16] <pjlv> Error 404: File not found!
[22:01:17] <pjlv> The requested resource is not available.
[22:01:30] <seanmcg> Gman: really ?  ahl has delved into the tab completion one ?-)
[22:02:29] <sommerfeld> i'll be in cambridge, ma in about two hours.  but not for the gnome conference.
[22:02:42] <DerJoern> is there any way to go around blastwaves g-prefixing of gnu software?
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[22:03:18] <stevel> pjlv: yes - it's broken temporarily while i try to fix something
[22:03:49] <pjlv> ok
[22:05:08] <stevel> i suppose i should have sent a maintenance notice first
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[22:09:08] <nrubsig> alanc: bug filed
[22:09:54] <nrubsig> alanc: search for libshell&co.
[22:10:29] <alanc> nothing in the queue yet, but it usually takes a minute or two to go from bugs.os.o into the real bug db
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[22:11:00] <alanc> whole bunch of jds bugs though waiting to be reassigned, so I'll clear those out
[22:11:02] <nrubsig> alanc: fun... we have 4GHz CPUs but it still needs "a minute or two"
[22:11:22] <stevel> 4GHz CPUs still have to stuff things through the same tubes as 5MHz ones
[22:12:32] <nrubsig> stevel: human brains ?
[22:12:37] <nrubsig> stevel: upgrade!
[22:12:40] <kjetilho> anyone here used pxegrub to install Linux (Kickstart)?  I can't quite wrap my head around the role of "multiboot"
[22:12:46] <alanc> and the database we can query only syncs with the master bug db once every 5 minutes
[22:13:10] <kjetilho> is "multiboot" a shim which makes Solaris grub compatible?  so unneeded on Linux?
[22:13:27] <trygvis> I think that was for selecting 32 bit vs 64 bit kernels
[22:13:41] <wesolows> no
[22:13:52] <wesolows> multiboot was the standard-compliant loader
[22:14:15] <wesolows> it's no longer used; grub is now expected to boot the kernel directly, as it does with Linux
[22:14:19] <nrubsig> wesolows: why was it axed when it was "standard-compillant" ?
[22:14:42] <wesolows> I believe the Xen team was having problems with it - look up Direct Boot
[22:14:57] <alanc> not all standards are worth complying with
[22:15:04] <wesolows> that too
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[22:15:18] <kjetilho> wesolows: ok, sounds good.  so I should be able to add kickstart entries alongside my Jumpstart profiles in menu.lst
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[22:15:52] <sommerfeld> i thought it was the case that solaris was the only platform that bothered to comply with the multiboot spec.
[22:15:59] <nrubsig> alanc: can't there be a bot which sends all bugids of new non-security bugs to this channel ?
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[22:16:38] <alanc> nrubsig: if someone had time to write one, I don't see why not
[22:16:47] <kjetilho> sommerfeld: oh really?  according to what I read, it grew out of Grub and the Mach loader
[22:17:04] * nrubsig is away for 15mins
[22:17:05] <sommerfeld> maybe mach does, too.
[22:17:09] <alanc> but I'd advocate that time is better spent on the current tools-discuss project to find a much-less broken bug system to replace b.o.o entirely
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[22:20:05] <movement> nrubsig: it was just a shim, now 'unix' does that job
[22:20:15] <movement> (multiboot that is)
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[22:23:08] <kjetilho> aha, "initrd" is Linux specific, the multiboot spec requires "module".  so Linux is not compliant.
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[22:23:28] <kjetilho> not that it matters for me as long as it works ...
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[22:29:17] <__william__> hi all
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[22:43:17] <bubbva> hey
[22:44:51] <nrubsig> bubbva: Hi! :-)
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[22:47:12] * nrubsig needs new ideas for more demo code...
[22:47:37] <alanc> you don'
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[22:47:46] <nrubsig> alanc: ?!
[22:47:47] <mbalmer> demo code?
[22:47:47] <alanc> t need to fill an entire CD with the contents of /usr/demo/ksh93
[22:48:03] <mbalmer> did you write the nv-b70 installer?
[22:48:10] <alanc> nrubsig: ' is too close to return on this keyboard
[22:48:44] <alanc> btw, still see no new bug from you in the triage queue
[22:49:01] <nrubsig> alanc: I filed it under "pam:other"
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[22:50:49] <JuGurTha> bonsoir :o
[22:50:55] <alanc> doesn't really matter, all that does is show up in the body of the description text - they all end up in the opensolaris/triage-queue category in the internal bug db until someone moves them
[22:51:04] <nrubsig> Kush-: with or without eggs and ham ?
[22:51:08] <nrubsig> erm
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[22:51:15] <nrubsig> JuGurTha: with or without eggs and ham ?
[22:51:26] <alanc> and people do put in the most random categories sometimes - appcert seems to be popular since it's at the top of the list
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[22:52:43] <nrubsig> alanc: I would put Product: donkey, Component: donked, Subcomponent: donkey at the first place... :-)
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[23:01:53] <nrubsig> groan
[23:01:55] <nrubsig> flash crash
[23:01:59] <nrubsig> alanc: any news ?
[23:02:55] <alanc> looks like b.o.o got stuck or lost it - not sure if stevel knows how to poke it or not
[23:03:30] <stevel> 'fraid not
[23:03:36] <nrubsig> steveleeeeeeeeeelll...
[23:03:39] * nrubsig panics
[23:04:30] <nrubsig> alanc: this <censored-by-CHILDGUARD at freenode dot net> is really a <censored-by-CHILDGUARD at freenode dot net>  ... loosing bug reports... ;-(
[23:05:20] <alanc> another bug came into the queue 30 minutes ago, but I have no way of knowing when that was submitted to b.o.o
[23:05:22] <stevel> all the more reason to replace b.o.o.
[23:05:42] <nrubsig> alanc: what did the bug say ?
[23:05:52] <alanc> snv_70 installer reset label on all disk luns of a SAN
[23:06:02] <nrubsig> alanc: nope
[23:06:09] <alanc> didn't think so
[23:06:10] <nrubsig> alanc: check for pam_shell.so.1
[23:06:21] <alanc> especially since it had someone else's e-mail as the submitter
[23:07:33] <alanc> wow, I got a hit from a 8 year old bug for pam_shell.so.1
[23:07:43] <alanc> but that was it, in the entire sun bug db
[23:08:08] <alanc> 4240569 RFE: Move authentication policy from /bin/login and in.ftpd to a PAM module
[23:08:26] <alanc> suggests pam_shell to do getusershell() checks
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[23:08:48] <nrubsig> alanc: namespace collision
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[23:19:32] <jbk> hello
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[23:20:31] <Triskelios> does anyone know if something happened to sunsolve earlier today?
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[23:20:49] <Triskelios> there were intermittent errors for a couple of hours
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[23:25:26] <nachox> evening
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[23:36:05] <pbaumgartner> anybody have experience building samba on opensolaris?
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[23:43:36] <tsoome> done that many times but not recently
[23:43:57] <pbaumgartner> tsoome: any tips?
[23:44:08] <pbaumgartner> ads/krb5 support is giving me fits
[23:44:10] <tsoome> configure --help:)
[23:44:28] <tsoome> u need mit kerberos i'm afraid
[23:44:42] <pbaumgartner> ok to install from blastwave?
[23:44:51] <tsoome> yea
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[23:46:31] <pbaumgartner> im mainly interested in zfs acl support that appears to have been added in 3.0.26
[23:48:38] <pbaumgartner> so what do i need to do other than set the LD_LIBRARY_PATH to have /opt/csw/lib
[23:49:11] <pbaumgartner> ./configure doesn't seem to see the krb5 library
[23:49:50] <jbk> don't use LD_LIBRARY_PATH, use 'LDFLAGS=-R /opt/csw/lib' instead
[23:51:08] <pbaumgartner> trying now...
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[23:55:21] <pbaumgartner> configure: error: Active Directory support requires ldap_initialize
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[23:56:12] <pbaumgartner> this is my configure command: http://pastebin.com/m2e552b39
[23:56:19] <tsoome> u need openldap
[23:56:45] <pbaumgartner> i have it :)
[23:56:56] <pbaumgartner> pkg-get -i openldap, correct?
[23:57:07] <tsoome> y





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