[00:00:08] <nachox> haha, marketing 101 with Joerg Schilling, from Re: [osol-discuss] sol-nv-b70-x86-dvd-iso zip files failed to: " I hope you all know that you may write the CD with: cdrecord -v  sol-nv-b70-sparc-dvd-iso-?" :P
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[00:07:40] <tsp> cdrecord -v? I thought you had to specify -data and dev=x,y,z speed=whatever driveropts=burnfree
[00:08:25] <nachox> no, you can specify many options in env variables
[00:09:17] <tsp> ah
[00:12:57] <Tempt> Argh
[00:13:05] <Tempt> Construction crew making noise *again*
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[00:16:32] <nachox> in a saturday?
[00:18:21] <Tempt> Sunday
[00:18:23] <Tempt> 8am
[00:18:27] <Tempt> They started this shit.
[00:18:50] <Tempt> They did the same yesterday. They'll also keep going until at least 6pm
[00:20:21] <nachox> are they at least working fast?
[00:21:18] * boyd wonders why here in the 'burbs that seems never to happen :)
[00:23:15] <moazamraja> if yer in a new burb, it happens
[00:23:47] <boyd> True. I was comparing my location to Tempt's
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[00:25:06] <boyd> richlowe: We were speaking of fonts the other day. Have you seen http://www.levien.com/type/myfonts/inconsolata.html ?
[00:27:27] <moazamraja> boyd: and how does one actually use this font? the downloadable files don't seem to be of any meaning on OS X
[00:27:40] <boyd> moazamraja: Get the OpenType one.
[00:27:58] <boyd> You need to re-name it to remove the  .txt
[00:28:18] <moazamraja> otf file works
[00:28:18] <moazamraja> ok
[00:28:19] <moazamraja> yeah
[00:28:25] <moazamraja> last one i tried :P
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[00:29:30] <boyd> Naturally, you'd be mad to keep trying after one worked :)
[00:30:39] <moazamraja> i dunno...that font kinda sux
[00:30:48] <moazamraja> for example, in Terminal
[00:31:17] <moazamraja> very jaggy, doesn't seem to deal with high-res too well
[00:31:29] <boyd> Hm... looks ok to me
[00:33:40] <boyd> Do you mean high res or small size?
[00:34:11] <kjetilho> hmm, OpenType, is that supported by FreeType?
[00:34:20] <moazamraja> boyd: http://lego.unixville.com/~moazam/fontshot.png
[00:34:27] <moazamraja> top window is Monaco 10pt
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[00:34:49] <moazamraja> bottom window is Inconsolata 13.0 pt.
[00:34:56] <boyd> Ah, no anti-aliasing
[00:35:43] * moazamraja turns on anti-aliasing
[00:35:44] <moazamraja> hmmm...
[00:36:02] <moazamraja> blurry.
[00:36:03] <boyd> Why does your terminal look like that?
[00:36:25] <moazamraja> like what?
[00:36:38] <Tempt> boyd: Oh, you won't get construction in the burbs on Sunday mornings. That's because people in the burbs are entitled to their sleep (no loud noise before 10am). City of Melbourne doesn't follow that one though.
[00:36:43] <kjetilho> hmm, it does seem to need better hinting?
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[00:36:57] <boyd> moazamraja: Like  you
[00:37:02] <kjetilho> or perhaps it's just my Ubuntu's which is poorly set up.
[00:37:04] <boyd> moazamraja: Like  you're running another WM
[00:37:27] <moazamraja> oh
[00:37:48] <moazamraja> yeah, I'm running ShapeShifter with another Window theme
[00:38:09] <kjetilho> it's not MacOS?
[00:38:24] <moazamraja> it is
[00:38:38] * boyd never saw the point, but maybe he should try it
[00:38:47] <boyd> (the themeing thing)
[00:38:56] <moazamraja> i'm not a fan of the 3 gummy OS X buttons
[00:39:14] <moazamraja> nor curved/beveled windows
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[00:39:48] * boyd doesn't care much what the window decorations look like
[00:40:07] <moazamraja> it matters, changes how much you can fit on a screen
[00:40:20] <holcomb> i don't like how you can't manipulate windows with the keyboard
[00:40:29] <holcomb> or align them to a grid
[00:40:39] <moazamraja> and distracts yer eyes if the window borders/buttons are garish and taking attention from the inside of the window
[00:40:54] <moazamraja> holcomb: there are free 3rd party programs which will allow u to do that
[00:41:01] <voxdolo> anyone have any idea how to fix this:
[00:41:02] <voxdolo> ld: fatal: file values-Xa.o: open failed: No such file or directory
[00:41:12] <holcomb> really?  i can't find $m :(
[00:41:19] <boyd> create values-Xa.o ?
[00:41:21] <holcomb> err 'em
[00:41:22] <voxdolo> SUWarc is installed, but values-Xa.o is not available
[00:41:28] <richlowe> boyd: uh, no.
[00:41:29] <voxdolo> boyd: how?
[00:41:53] * boyd shrugs. Sorry, it was off-the-cuff
[00:42:19] <voxdolo> I'll take off-the-cuff, off-the-ground, off-the-top-of-your-head or whatever at this point
[00:42:23] <boyd> richlowe: No it wasn't you, or not you haven't seen it
[00:42:57] <boyd> s/not/no
[00:43:23] <voxdolo> I've done a good bit of research and everything seems to point to the placement of /usr/ccs/bin in my path and having SUNWarc installed
[00:43:48] <voxdolo> both conditions are satisfied, but that values-Xa.o file is definitely not on my system
[00:44:34] * boyd goes off to find a power supply
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[00:48:56] <moazamraja> [/]$ find / -name values-Xa.o -print
[00:49:06] <moazamraja>  /usr/ccs/lib/amd64/values-Xa.o
[00:49:11] <moazamraja>  /usr/ccs/lib/values-Xa.o
[00:49:14] <bourgois> Would any of you be willing to educate me on how to get wpa_supplicant to startup before a DHCP request is sent out at boot up?
[00:49:17] <moazamraja>  /usr/lib/amd64/values-Xa.o
[00:49:22] <moazamraja>  /usr/lib/values-Xa.o
[00:49:52] <kjetilho> heh, I tried to enable autohinting, and thought it was a bit better, but still a bit fuzzy
[00:50:09] <kjetilho> so I used pamarith -compare to see the difference -- and of course there was none :-)
[00:57:42] <voxdolo> moazamraja: I get no results on that search
[00:57:55] <richlowe> sounds like SUNWarc isn't as installed as it should be :)
[00:58:14] <voxdolo> if I: pkginfo -li SUNWarc
[00:58:27] <voxdolo> I get: STATUS: completely installed
[00:58:50] <richlowe> pkgchk SUNWarc?
[00:59:16] <Tempt> boyd: There's another cheap V880 on ebay ... upgrade time?
[00:59:28] <voxdolo> richlowe: all kinds of pathname does not exist :\
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[00:59:52] <nachox> youre better off reinstalling that package
[01:00:10] <voxdolo> I don't have physical access to the box
[01:00:17] <CIA-21> tz204579: 6588671 audit source should not use SCCS keywords in user-visible strings, 6588889 auditstat.c and au_preselect.c have cstyle nits
[01:00:30] <voxdolo> and support will probably sit with their thumbs in their keesters for a good 24 hours
[01:00:41] <voxdolo> any way I can install that package over the net?
[01:00:47] <nachox> you can
[01:00:59] <moazamraja> voxdolo: yer SUNWarc aint installed
[01:01:12] <moazamraja> (right)
[01:01:19] <nachox> pkgadd supports installing over http
[01:01:48] <voxdolo> any idea where to find that package though?
[01:01:52] <nachox> and there is always scp to copy the package to the target box
[01:01:58] <moazamraja> Tempt: cheap = ?
[01:02:06] <nachox> your solaris media
[01:02:13] <voxdolo> of which I have none :\
[01:02:46] <voxdolo> sorry, I'm probably being horribly n00bish atm.
[01:03:12] <Tempt> moazamraja: Cheap!
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[01:03:25] <moazamraja> :/
[01:03:29] <voxdolo> wasn't my idea to move to solaris as I'd no familiarity with it, but now that I'm there, I'm just trying to tread water
[01:03:38] <Tempt> moazamraja: $AU889
[01:04:51] <nachox> and $1au is U$S? ? :)
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[01:05:31] <Tempt> nachox: www.xe.com
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[01:06:45] <moazamraja> so, thats like $12 USD?
[01:06:47] * moazamraja runs
[01:06:47] <moazamraja> ;)
[01:07:32] <nachox>
[01:07:32] <nachox> 704.549
[01:07:48] <moazamraja> " I am looking for a V880, but perhaps an older E35000 or E45000? I can't pay anything but I have a few misc. items I can trade such as an old iMac, or old VCR/20"TV."  --craigslist
[01:07:50] <moazamraja> hahahah. man.
[01:07:53] <moazamraja> wow.
[01:07:56] <moazamraja> i mean, WOW.
[01:08:38] <moazamraja> ok, i'm off to Barefoot Coffee to finally try some blue mountain coffee
[01:08:39] <moazamraja> bbl
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[01:31:03] <pg_user> I've got a question.  I am doing cdrw -M and would like to be able to get the next writable address number so I can script backups of my snapshots to zfs.
[01:31:12] <pg_user> how would I do this?
[01:31:46] <pg_user> i'm assuming regular expressions ....but I suck at those
[01:34:06] <Tempt> aah, it's troll time.
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[01:37:37] <gisburn> groan
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[01:37:44] <gisburn> where are all the ops ?
[01:37:49] *** gisburn is now known as nrubsig
[01:37:52] <Tpent1> why?
[01:37:54] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig
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[01:37:58] *** Tpent1 is now known as Tpenta
[01:38:05] <richlowe> why?
[01:38:14] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Tpenta
[01:38:29] <nrubsig> Tpenta: well, maybe the invasion of the multitentacled channel killer monsters will occur soon...
[01:38:36] <tsp> Tempt: troll time? how so?
[01:40:42] <Tempt> I'll leave everyone here to flick back through the channel logs for the appearance of "pg_user".
[01:40:53] <Tempt> Don't forget to check #solaris as well.
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[01:42:08] <IRCMonster> grrruuwwwaglaglaglaglaglagalglag!!!
[01:42:14] <IRCMonster> grrraaawwww!
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[01:42:35] *** IRCMonster was kicked by nrubsig (No feeding time today.)
[01:42:44] <nrubsig> See ? I knew it!
[01:42:46] <nrubsig> :-)
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[01:43:06] <nrubsig> (ok, bad joke)
[01:44:45] <brandini> I can't WAIT to get solaris+zfs doing awesome things!
[01:44:49] <brandini> so excited!
[01:45:10] * nrubsig tasers brandini to get some excitement away from him...
[01:45:22] <pg_user> I just need to get the next writable address so I can pass that to mkisofs so I can write the next session.  I would also like to know how to prevent cdrw from ejecting disks after a burn.
[01:45:36] <pg_user> any help would be appreciated.  Thanks.
[01:46:25] <pg_user> And no, I'm not a troll.  Proof: uname -a SunOS  5.10 Generic_125101-10 i86pc i386 i86pc
[01:46:50] <pg_user> A troll wouldn't be using Solaris, would they?
[01:47:26] <nrubsig> Well, there is the subspecies Trollus Solarius ...
[01:48:04] <nrubsig> also known as "common troll in news:comp.unix.solaris)
[01:48:09] <brandini> lol
[01:48:24] <pg_user> no I'm not "Mike Cox".
[01:48:39] <pg_user> if that's the infamous troll you have in mind.
[01:48:44] <brandini> so will solaris 10 run well on an E450 with 2x400Mhz procs and 2GB ram?
[01:48:59] <nrubsig> More feared is Trollus Joergius Schilliximis Terriblis Starrixis
[01:49:10] <pg_user> hehehe
[01:49:15] <pg_user> funny stuff
[01:49:54] <pg_user> Joergius is quite funny indeed.  Especially on the linux kernel mailing lists
[01:50:03] <nrubsig> but the classification is IMO wrong, it's more like a common developer during the "ARC rage season"
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[01:51:00] * nrubsig waves in Tpenta's direction...
[01:51:06] <brandini> hey, what about me!
[01:51:12] * brandini waves at nrubsig
[01:51:43] * nrubsig waves back at brandini (and wonders if brandini really wants to get "involved" in what he is planning....)
[01:51:58] <Tempt> brandini: Yes.
[01:51:59] <nrubsig> brandini: suggestion: hide under bed
[01:52:06] <brandini> Yay!
[01:52:14] * nrubsig waves in Tpenta's direction...
[01:52:30] <brandini> Tempt: and how much will my power bill suffer? :)
[01:52:51] <pg_user> what's going on?
[01:52:54] * nrubsig waves fanatically in Tpenta's direction and jumps up and down ...
[01:53:13] <Tempt> brandini: Do you live in Australia?
[01:53:14] * brandini jumps and waves at everyone not knowing why
[01:53:19] <brandini> Tempt: the states :)
[01:53:29] <Tempt> brandini: Then I have no idea what you pay for power.
[01:53:39] <nrubsig> blood
[01:53:49] <brandini> basically
[01:53:52] <nrubsig> human blood
[01:53:55] <pg_user> this group is really strange.
[01:53:56] <brandini> I guess I could read the power usages
[01:54:04] <brandini> pg_user: that's why you love us!
[01:54:17] <brandini> although I usually don't lurk here
[01:54:19] <Tempt> Don't go by the nameplate on the machine
[01:54:21] * nrubsig grabs pg_user , snapps his neck and starts chewing on his bones
[01:54:24] <Tempt> You'll want to measure it.
[01:54:35] <Tempt> The nameplate power rating will be 2000 watts or something insane like that.
[01:54:46] <nrubsig> Tempt: V880 ?
[01:54:55] <brandini> Tempt: yeah, and I'm sure 2 HDs and two procs won't use nearly that much
[01:54:58] <Tempt> nrubsig: E450 ...
[01:54:59] <pg_user> you guys are SO mean!
[01:55:06] <Tempt> nrubsig: 880 claims like 6kW or something.
[01:55:15] <Tempt> nrubsig: But I know the 880 only eats about 800
[01:55:15] <nrubsig> erm
[01:55:27] <brandini> 800 watts...
[01:55:34] <brandini> thats a hella lotta powa!
[01:55:41] <pg_user> 800 watts!? Get a Netra!
[01:55:46] <pg_user> only 100 watts.
[01:55:50] <nrubsig> Tempt: 880z fits well into a single 240V/16A fuse
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[01:56:02] <Tempt> nrubsig: Oh, absolutely.
[01:56:11] <brandini> heh
[01:56:12] <Tempt> nrubsig: Did you say "z"? Do you have some Zulu cards? Gimmeh!
[01:56:34] <nrubsig> Tempt: I borrowed that machine for a few weeks
[01:56:39] * nrubsig wishes he had kept it.
[01:56:39] <brandini> I payed 100USD for the E450 a 220 and an A1000
[01:56:46] <Tempt> nrubsig: Did you plug a display in?
[01:56:49] <Rawn027> has anyone successfully compiled iperf?
[01:57:00] <nrubsig> Tempt: yes, two LCDs
[01:57:12] <Tempt> nrubsig: What was the XVR-4000 performance like?
[01:57:18] <Rawn027> i dont know what compilers I should use, GCC or or Suns
[01:57:34] <nrubsig> Tempt: enougth to play a modified Quake3
[01:57:50] <pg_user> GCC is much better.
[01:57:54] <Tempt> Pity you have to give the machine back.
[01:58:05] <pg_user> SUNs compilers are not opensource
[01:58:14] <pg_user> although they produce better code
[01:58:15] <nrubsig> Rawn027: use Sun Studio compilers if you can.
[01:58:22] <Rawn027> pg_user: is that the only reason why, I am using GCCs and nothing is working
[01:58:23] <jpdrawneek> GCC is good for?
[01:58:26] <nrubsig> Rawn027: the performance of the resulting code is better
[01:58:35] <Rawn027> nrubsig: thats what I thought
[01:58:38] <pg_user> GCC is better because it is open source.
[01:58:59] * dlg snicker
[01:59:00] <jpdrawneek> ok - so we don't count performance
[01:59:11] <tsp> sun studio's errors are better :)
[01:59:12] <pg_user> It is better to not use a closed source program and wait for the FSF to develop a free one.
[01:59:26] <Rawn027> sunfreeware uses gcc thought correct?
[01:59:34] <Tempt> Alright, I'm outta here until the troll is gone.
[01:59:34] <jpdrawneek> pg_user - how long am it to wait?
[01:59:49] <pg_user> as long as it takes.  Unless you are RMS.
[02:00:01] <pg_user> Then you can use the closed software to create free ones.
[02:00:06] <jpdrawneek> best GCC so far is the ones out of cooltools
[02:00:36] <Rawn027> cooltools?
[02:00:40] <Rawn027> you mean coolstack?
[02:00:53] <jpdrawneek> cooltools is the website
[02:00:59] *** jamesd sets mode: +o nrubsig
[02:01:00] <jpdrawneek> cool stack is the software
[02:01:12] <jpdrawneek> not sure if its just the web apps
[02:01:19] <Rawn027> oh ok gotcha
[02:01:20] <jpdrawneek> will have to have a look again
[02:01:29] <jamesd> nrubsig: in honor of the largest non-sun putback... enjoy the ops... feel free to kick any trolls in my absence.
[02:05:20] <pg_user> Mr. Carlson, I hope that doesn't mean me!  Or I'll tell Jonathan!
[02:05:53] <nrubsig> pg_user: ...
[02:06:26] <pg_user> ok, i'll be nice.
[02:07:15] <nrubsig> pg_user: for the log: I am tempted to initiate a votekick, e.g. three votes would be needed within a minute to get you kicked off the channel.
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[02:07:50] <jpdrawneek> wow
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[02:10:13] <jpdrawneek> So how long till solaris 10 u4?
[02:11:41] <Rawn027> anyone have any ideas...
[02:11:42] <Rawn027> make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `all-recursive'
[02:11:59] <jpdrawneek> go for gmake if its on foss app
[02:12:33] <jpdrawneek> find that the solaris make borks alot on linux type apps
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[02:14:20] <Tempt> And now back to our regular scheduled programming.
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[02:15:06] <jpdrawneek> Tempt - got my scsi problem sort of sorted
[02:15:11] <Rawn027> "Thread.c", line 205: undefined symbol: oldTID
[02:15:11] <Tempt> Oh, good.
[02:15:12] <Rawn027> cc: acomp failed for Thread.c
[02:15:14] <Rawn027> that is what i got when used gmake
[02:15:15] <Tempt> Was it the ID conflict?
[02:15:16] <Rawn027> =i was having the same damn issues with freeradius
[02:15:21] <Rawn027> and i need to get that installed to
[02:15:22] <Rawn027> grrr
[02:15:22] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: no
[02:15:34] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: just evil hp firmware
[02:15:35] <Tempt> Rawn027: I seem to remember having a great deal of "fun" last time I built freeradius
[02:15:47] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: Ouch. How crap.
[02:15:48] <Rawn027> Tempt: yeah its terrible lol
[02:15:51] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: You got an update?
[02:15:57] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: need/got new boot disk
[02:16:16] <nrubsig> Who maintains opengrok ?
[02:16:21] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: junked them for some standard seagates seems to work ok
[02:16:39] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: You'll probably find a firmware patch or something somewhere.
[02:16:42] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: hense the re-install - hense how long till update 4
[02:17:19] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: true but what app do i use to apply it? and where do i get it from with out an hp support agreement
[02:18:00] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: No idea. HP does tend to make some things a bit difficult.
[02:18:10] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: You can probably get a firmware installer for HP-UX ;)
[02:18:22] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: so just going to chuck them into a zpool
[02:18:53] <Rawn027> ahhh thats right, my freeradius build totally shits itself on  the perl port
[02:19:01] <Rawn027> about 100,000 lines of an error
[02:19:08] <Rawn027> ld: fatal: relocations remain against allocatable but non-writable sections
[02:19:17] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: all the does i have seem point to that - hense the new disks
[02:20:05] <jpdrawneek> so how long for solaris 10 update 4
[02:20:17] <Tempt> Nobody knows.
[02:20:22] <Tempt> Well, nobody outside of Sun.
[02:20:28] <jpdrawneek> if its more than a week i can put up with the luupgrade to it
[02:20:31] <Tempt> Apparently there have been some show-stopping faults.
[02:20:36] <Tempt> It will be more than a week.
[02:20:40] <jpdrawneek> :(
[02:20:49] <jpdrawneek> k - never good to here
[02:20:57] <Tempt> At least they test properly.
[02:21:06] <jpdrawneek> whats build 70 like? was it just late?
[02:21:24] <Tempt> No idea about build 70, someone here will have installed it by now though.
[02:21:42] <tsp> osol-discuss says its being respun or something :)
[02:21:47] <jpdrawneek> I want to use the hme gd3 drivers on client facing boxes
[02:22:21] <jpdrawneek> as ip-exclusive removed the creaking hack we got
[02:23:09] <Rawn027> I am download right now
[02:23:14] <Rawn027> I will let everyone know the differences
[02:23:22] <jpdrawneek> k - ta
[02:23:31] <Rawn027> I am running it on a Core 2 Duo on a P965 Intel Chipset
[02:23:34] <Rawn027> np
[02:23:52] <jpdrawneek> any idea what the respun was for?
[02:24:13] <tsp> no idea
[02:24:17] <jpdrawneek> k
[02:24:38] <jpdrawneek> any idea how long it will take for the gd3 drivers to end up in solaris 10?
[02:25:00] <Rawn027> im getting an ld error now for iPerf
[02:25:03] <Rawn027> i think this is possible
[02:25:10] <Rawn027> what LDFLAGS do i want?
[02:25:45] * nrubsig is scared of the religion and it's worshippers he created by accident....
[02:27:01] <Rawn027> about one hour till i start the solaris NV70 install :-P
[02:29:36] <jpdrawneek> k - b70 is going to be the third SXDE
[02:30:28] <jpdrawneek> from that i am sold
[02:30:50] <Rawn027> how long till it takes em to bring out the SXDE
[02:31:55] <Rawn027> anyone here use zones, I cant find out if there is a way to have different packages on the global system than subsequent zones
[02:32:10] <Rawn027> whenever I install a package in the global zone it adds it to the non global zones
[02:32:15] <Tempt> man pkgadd
[02:33:48] <jpdrawneek> pkgadd -G i think
[02:33:55] <Tempt> That'd be the one.
[02:34:09] <jpdrawneek> see thats how often i just it :)
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[02:34:50] <jpdrawneek> god i need some sleep
[02:35:01] <Rawn027> jpdrawneek: thanks, didnt think it would be in the pkgadd command itself... thanks again
[02:35:37] <jpdrawneek> any word on the qfe GLD3 driver?
[02:35:48] * coffman waves in the direction of nrubsig
[02:36:00] <jpdrawneek> ta
[02:36:25] <jpdrawneek> nrubsig: any word on the qfe GLD3 driver?
[02:36:26] <g4lt-mordant> coffman, I thought gdamore was dojng GLD stuff
[02:36:35] <nrubsig> jpdrawneek: ?!
[02:37:00] <coffman> g4lt-mordant: hum?
[02:37:05] <jpdrawneek> sorry brains in planning gear
[02:37:32] <jpdrawneek> 3 nics to many zones and no vnics yet :(
[02:37:33] <nrubsig> jpdrawneek: I don't intenot to provide support to write GLDv3 drivers in ksh
[02:37:51] <jpdrawneek> blame coffman
[02:37:58] <Tempt> kshOS
[02:38:05] <Tempt> You could have the entire OS re-written in ksh
[02:38:05] <coffman> that was not an answer to jpdrawneek question
[02:38:11] <Tempt> just have a stub kernel to provide basic functions.
[02:38:13] <jpdrawneek> k - will go back to sleep
[02:38:24] <coffman> i was saying hi to nrubsig
[02:38:31] <coffman> great job nrubsig
[02:38:32] <g4lt-mordant> jpdrawneek, the guy YOU need to talk to is gdamore
[02:38:37] <jpdrawneek> ta
[02:38:44] <jpdrawneek> what time zone he in?
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[02:39:31] <g4lt-mordant> m-f 9-5 PDT
[02:39:34] <tweaks> Hey guys, I was wondering if there way some place I could look for graphics card drivers?
[02:39:36] <coffman> nrubsig: you beat the damm train
[02:39:51] <coffman> tweaks: which card?
[02:39:57] <g4lt-mordant> tweaks, which one?
[02:40:00] <tweaks> I have a radeon mobility x1400
[02:40:06] <tweaks> ati
[02:40:10] <coffman> tweaks: out of luck
[02:40:15] <tweaks> =/
[02:40:30] <tweaks> Kind of figured it would be that way actually
[02:40:33] <jpdrawneek> g4lt-mordant: ta - will try to be around
[02:40:35] <tweaks> Oh well, thanks
[02:40:39] <g4lt-mordant> ATI doesn't really support solaris/x86
[02:40:39] <coffman> tweaks: only thid party drivers are nvidia, and even them are shiped with sx
[02:40:50] <tweaks> coffman: what's sx?
[02:41:06] <coffman> tweaks: solaris express
[02:41:11] <tweaks> oh
[02:41:19] <Rawn027> so i guess the NV70 is going to be respun into 70a
[02:41:24] <coffman> but i think they also ship with solaris
[02:41:44] <coffman> uhm
[02:41:45] <jpdrawneek> ya for the workstations
[02:41:54] <coffman> there will be a b70a?
[02:42:15] <nrubsig> coffman: which train ?
[02:42:22] <FrostCS> yes, every sxde takes 1 month longer for sxce to release, and then still takes another 2 weeks just for kicks
[02:42:53] <cypromis> lol
[02:42:56] <Rawn027> coffman: yeah, there will be a 70a
[02:43:15] <coffman> nrubsig: the train to integrate something something in opensolaris
[02:43:27] <coffman> Rawn027: so the current b70 is buggy?
[02:43:39] <cypromis> life is buggy
[02:43:47] <FrostCS> the theory behind sxde is buggy
[02:43:48] <Rawn027> coffman: dont know if its buggy or they are tagging the source because its going to be the next SXDE
[02:43:51] <FrostCS> and it spreads..
[02:44:01] <FrostCS> very contagious
[02:44:05] <Rawn027> FrostCS: lol
[02:44:29] * nrubsig crawls into his bed...
[02:44:41] <nrubsig> night
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[02:45:20] <coffman> sure thing, sxde is a huge waste
[02:45:27] <coffman> of money time and people
[02:45:34] <g4lt-mordant> ...and RAM
[02:46:22] <jpdrawneek> its was ok
[02:48:01] * coffman burns dfly-1.10.0_REL.iso
[02:49:53] <Rawn027> coffman: i dont think so, gives someone a platform which is no fuss to start developing on
[02:50:24] <Rawn027> coffman: and it makes some people feel more warm and fuzzy that its not as raw as SXCE and its a tad more polished makes them feel like its less buggy lol
[02:51:33] <coffman> thats bullshit, if people are to dump to install studio and netbeans they are not welcome anyways
[02:52:20] <Tempt> Honestly, if stability and whatever is that critical run Sol10.
[02:52:26] <coffman> sxde would make sense with updates
[02:52:34] <jpdrawneek> ya
[02:52:34] <coffman> with out it, its useless
[02:52:46] <Rawn027> Tempt: exactly
[02:52:57] <coffman> yeah but there is indiana to come, lol
[02:53:01] <Rawn027> is there a way to update nv to the next version without downloading the ISOs?
[02:53:08] <Rawn027> coffman: eww
[02:53:09] <Rawn027> lol
[02:53:10] <jpdrawneek> nope
[02:53:38] <jpdrawneek> package management is still old sckool
[02:54:04] <FrostCS> well, you don't have to download iso's to bfu..
[02:54:07] <coffman> indiana feels like a big bubble of bullshit without much sense
[02:54:27] <jpdrawneek> yep that a linux copy for you
[02:54:44] <FrostCS> just wait, Sun is hiring Linus next to make the next shit bubble.
[02:55:02] <Tempt> Wow, shitbubbles all round.
[02:55:07] <coffman> and im affraid it will be some "behind the gates" stuff
[02:55:30] <coffman> im pissed about that since i hate it when they drop a ready to go product
[02:55:48] <Tempt> Which particular ready to go product?
[02:55:57] <coffman> im working on stuff like package management...
[02:55:58] <jpdrawneek> going to have to get into indiana - from what i have seen theres nothing there of real use to me atleast
[02:56:38] <jpdrawneek> ya package management needs a look at asap - not sure why theres not much happening on it
[02:56:57] <coffman> some people at sun still need to learn the "open" thing
[02:57:25] <Rawn027> coffman: as with anyone that lets their baby out to the world for Free which used to make money
[02:57:38] <jpdrawneek> the web stack is an idea candited for a apt-get type approtch
[02:57:45] <coffman> if you continue that behaviour it will drive away the developers that you try to get with indiana
[02:59:28] <coffman> and then again, the desktop stuff, locking yourself into gnome seems just wrong
[03:01:20] <Rawn027> coffman: im just not a big fan of debian
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[03:02:28] <coffman> Rawn027: well, if i have to use linux, i use debian or ubuntu
[03:03:01] <coffman> "have to" would on job, not on private
[03:03:31] <coffman> but dpkg and apt is not the best thing, its kind of old too
[03:05:03] <jpdrawneek> most linuxs have got apt type tool
[03:05:31] <Rawn027> ubuntu is a nice setup
[03:05:34] <Rawn027> debian hurts
[03:05:36] <jpdrawneek> ya
[03:06:16] <jpdrawneek> debian last time i looked need to work out which century their in
[03:06:53] <brandini> my 450 is booted!
[03:07:01] <Tempt> woohoo
[03:07:10] <brandini> if I don't know the user/pass is there a way I can get in and set it?
[03:07:17] <brandini> like single user
[03:07:23] <brandini> sol 5.10 BTW
[03:08:28] <Tempt> Single user?
[03:08:32] <Tempt> boot -s from the OBP
[03:08:39] <Tempt> You'll still need a root passwd though
[03:08:53] <brandini> hmmm, don't have it
[03:09:00] <Tempt> boot from a CD
[03:09:03] <Tempt> mount the rootfs
[03:09:12] <Tempt> fix it
[03:09:14] <Tempt> umount
[03:09:15] <Tempt> reboot
[03:09:17] <brandini> ok, sol10 is on the way :)
[03:09:36] <brandini> CD 1 183 of 393 MB
[03:09:47] <Tempt> woot.
[03:10:22] <brandini> my A1000 says it needs a new battery
[03:11:08] <FrostCS> I should grab 71.. but 72 is probably due in a day or three...
[03:11:28] <coffman> throw it on the street, get a huge hammer and hit a couple of times
[03:11:37] <coffman> then replace it with a 5200 or something
[03:11:48] <brandini> haha
[03:11:55] <brandini> perhaps I should get the DVD
[03:12:01] <brandini> suns site seems slow tonight
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[03:12:30] <coffman> yeah, it gives me only 230k
[03:12:35] <coffman> that sucker
[03:12:36] <Tempt> brandini: That happens. You can replace the cells inside if you're motivated.
[03:12:45] <brandini> Tempt: yeah, not really
[03:13:02] <brandini> trying to find a place to stick my 300GB or pr0n while I install solaris on my dual opteron
[03:14:34] <brandini> I really should have just picked up a couple 500GB drives at microcenter today
[03:15:25] <FrostCS> who let the trolls out?
[03:15:47] <brandini> was I trolling... shoot
[03:16:03] <brandini> I just got kicked from #obsd for saying solaris was faster than openbsd ;P
[03:16:21] <coffman> im installing dfly now
[03:16:22] <coffman> :P
[03:16:27] <jpdrawneek> is it just me with the gigs of legit family content?
[03:16:42] <brandini> jpdrawneek: just a saying for anything that "needs backed up"
[03:16:42] <Tempt> Apparently.
[03:17:08] <jpdrawneek> :(
[03:17:26] <FrostCS> only trolls don't have tape.
[03:17:27] <brandini> hmmm, just heard this machine hiccup o.O
[03:17:47] * brandini shows FrostCS his tower of hanoi setup
[03:18:55] <Tempt> I really don't get the 500Gb of pr0n thing.
[03:19:08] <Tempt> I mean, I'm not a wowser but is there really a need for *that* much smut?
[03:19:12] <brandini> we call anything that we have to back up pr0n
[03:19:19] <brandini> it's not really pr0n
[03:19:20] <jpdrawneek> its the whole thing of what does actual take up 500gb
[03:19:58] <FrostCS> I don't seem to recall anyone in my former offices walking around talking about having to do "pr0n" backups
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[03:21:10] <Tempt> Nope, definately haven't had people complaining about lack of pr0n availability either.
[03:21:15] <brandini> :)
[03:21:18] <brandini> sorry
[03:21:25] <brandini> I'm more of a hillbilly I guess
[03:23:38] <FrostCS> no wonder your peecee is hicc'ing then
[03:23:52] <brandini> :P
[03:24:06] <brandini> can't wait to start using ZFS though
[03:24:17] <brandini> cudos to whoever did that :)
[03:24:19] <brandini> love it
[03:24:40] <Rawn027> brandini: zfs is the ownage
[03:24:49] <brandini> I played with the bastardized version in freebsd a while ago and decided I needed to run in on real hardware with a real OS
[03:25:04] <jpdrawneek> makes life easier
[03:25:09] <brandini> freebsd... on my MacBook Pro... in parallels....
[03:25:12] <FrostCS> so you got yourself an aix box?
[03:25:12] <brandini> :)
[03:25:27] <Rawn027> brandini: freebsd is doing a decent job porting it, not close to done
[03:25:27] <brandini> FrostCS: this is actually going to go on my dual opteron box
[03:25:32] <Rawn027> i still wouldnt trust it
[03:25:42] <brandini> Rawn027: I've been through the code :)
[03:25:43] <Rawn027> brandini: what is your deployment hardware
[03:26:28] <brandini> Rawn027: either the 450 or dual opteron with 5 SATA drives
[03:26:44] <Tempt> FrostCS: Fightin' words, Frosty.
[03:26:54] <Rawn027> brandini: very nice. I have a file server with 4x250GB SATA II raid z and one 10k rpm boot drive
[03:26:57] <brandini> but SCSIs are expensive....
[03:26:58] <Rawn027> core 2 duo
[03:27:03] <FrostCS> Tempt, I try
[03:27:10] <Tempt> FrostCS: ;)
[03:27:21] <jpdrawneek> not of ebay :)
[03:27:24] <brandini> Rawn027: yeah, I've got 3x320GB SATA's now, and a bunch of 10k scsi
[03:27:33] <Rawn027> i have a 450 at work that I am setting up as well... maxed out with 4CPUs and 4GB ram
[03:27:48] <Rawn027> there is only one backplane thought, room for 4 scsi drives :(
[03:27:50] <brandini> I'm at 2GB ram and 2cpus
[03:27:56] <brandini> Rawn027: that's what I have
[03:28:01] <Rawn027> nice
[03:28:02] <brandini> 4x32GB 10k
[03:28:06] <Rawn027> yep :)
[03:28:07] <brandini> paid 100 bucks for it
[03:28:10] <Rawn027> exactly the same
[03:28:31] <Rawn027> i dont know how i would about about adding the other backplanes for the other 16 drives
[03:28:37] <Rawn027> i would like to do that
[03:28:52] <FrostCS> I have an etch-a-sketch
[03:28:55] <brandini> Rawn027: I've seen stuff for sale
[03:28:57] <brandini> all over
[03:28:58] <FrostCS> dual knobbage
[03:29:04] <brandini> FrostCS: 8)
[03:29:10] <Rawn027> is it a simple connection on the mobo?
[03:29:11] <brandini> freaking slow sun DL's
[03:29:16] <pg_user> guys, you should be buying the new stuff.  Keeps sun in business.
[03:29:17] <FrostCS> the top is written in gold letters too
[03:29:24] <brandini> Rawn027: it's a hardware PCB board
[03:29:29] <Rawn027> pg_user: not when im poor
[03:29:37] <pg_user> i'm poor too
[03:29:44] <Rawn027> I REALLY want the new coolthreads T2 CPU
[03:29:45] <Rawn027> that is what im saving up
[03:29:52] <Rawn027> going to replace my servers
[03:29:53] <Rawn027> all of them lol
[03:30:00] <brandini> pg_user: go visit #obsd again... read the topic
[03:30:03] <Rawn027> i love having a single point of failure, keeps me on my toes
[03:30:03] <FrostCS> I'm saving up for my own fisher price toolkit
[03:30:16] <Tempt> Ooh, that's serious hardware.
[03:30:19] <brandini> I like the AM2 stuff
[03:30:34] <Rawn027> haha
[03:30:35] <pg_user> brandini: I'm scared to go to #obsd
[03:30:40] <brandini> pg_user: it's cool
[03:30:41] <FrostCS> know what's cool? those cyrix chips
[03:30:45] <brandini> we're a bunch of slackers
[03:30:46] <FrostCS> now that's the shiznits
[03:30:53] <brandini> FrostCS: yeah, C7 and stuff
[03:30:54] <Rawn027> you know what sucks..... citrix aquiring Xen
[03:30:54] <Tempt> You know which chips are really good?
[03:30:57] <Tempt> Doritos
[03:31:06] <Rawn027> i was so upset
[03:31:12] <FrostCS> cheese, not salsa though Tempt
[03:31:13] <brandini> Mmmm, scoops for teh win!
[03:31:20] <Rawn027> brandini: agreed
[03:31:21] <Tempt> Cheese Supreme
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[03:31:52] <Tempt> So why is the Xen acquisition so bad?
[03:31:55] <FrostCS> or chez-whiz from the can..
[03:32:12] <Tempt> FrostCS: I don't think they sell that here, it doesn't comply with local health laws.
[03:32:18] <brandini> pg_user: like the topic?
[03:32:28] <pg_user> it is kind of funny
[03:32:32] <brandini> :)
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[03:32:35] <Rawn027> Tempt: I am not a big fan of citrix
[03:32:36] <brandini> that's how it went down
[03:32:43] <jpdrawneek> Xen is now own by a proper company who want to make proper money
[03:32:46] <Rawn027> plus im scared they will cripple the OS community behind xen
[03:32:58] <jpdrawneek> that too
[03:33:05] <Rawn027> I am a huge supporter of paravirtualization
[03:33:06] <pg_user> there are 30 million linux users in the world
[03:33:07] <Tempt> OH NOES, MAKING MONEYS
[03:33:16] <FrostCS> Tempt, you can clog an entire capillary in just one squirt
[03:33:21] <jpdrawneek> ya no more freebes
[03:33:24] <Rawn027> i like it better than zones and application/virtual private server style of virtualization
[03:33:27] <FrostCS> the stuff works like magic.. heart attack in a can
[03:33:35] <brandini> haha
[03:34:19] <FrostCS> xen is already open-source, if someone doesn't like where it's going, they can fork.
[03:34:20] <Tempt> FrostCS: I need a case of it. Can somebody ship it?
[03:34:31] <Tempt> Or they could spoon.
[03:34:36] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: the foss guys seem a bit funny about making money
[03:34:45] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: unless its them etc...
[03:35:07] <Tempt> nah
[03:35:09] <pg_user> jpdrawneek:  linux guys sell out very often.  its quite annoying actually
[03:35:16] <Tempt> They want to pay their rent with community goodwill
[03:35:23] <Tempt> and live on a diet of peer respect
[03:35:30] <jpdrawneek> ya
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[03:35:43] <pg_user> I was a RHT users since 6.0 until redhat sold out.
[03:35:46] <coffman_> grr
[03:35:46] <jpdrawneek> but get very bitch when its not them getting paided
[03:35:51] <coffman_> stupid server
[03:35:58] <pg_user> than I went to SUSE and then it got sold to NOVELL
[03:36:13] <Tempt> brandini: Fun and games over there!
[03:36:14] <pg_user> now I'm just waiting for ubuntu to sell out with canocial
[03:36:15] <jpdrawneek> SuSE is doing ok
[03:36:30] <jpdrawneek> Novell we will not talk about
[03:36:32] <brandini> Tempt: for sure
[03:36:37] <brandini> Tempt: but we do hack too :)
[03:36:40] <brandini> great bunch
[03:37:06] <pg_user> when solaris became free i thought i'd just move over to it.  It seems to have a longer track record.
[03:37:31] <brandini> and smp is teh win!
[03:37:36] <brandini> all your FS are belong to ZFS
[03:37:37] <jpdrawneek> hopefully citrix will make xen into a shiny produce
[03:37:50] <FrostCS> tempt, I actually think there is some regulations on shipping pressurized cans
[03:38:05] <Tempt> Not fair
[03:38:12] <pg_user> has anyone here met Bill Joy?
[03:38:13] <jpdrawneek> ya - they can explode
[03:38:15] <Tempt> I want your American Cheez Weapons of Mass Destruction
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[03:38:39] <brandini> Tempt: weapons of massive distraction :P
[03:38:49] <Tempt> That's IRC.
[03:38:55] <pg_user> Americans don't have Cheez.  We're all circumcised.
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[03:39:14] <jpdrawneek> thats the problem it can kill some guy
[03:39:15] <brandini> blast
[03:39:20] <jpdrawneek> not from frag
[03:39:33] <brandini> sun needs more intertubes
[03:39:36] <jpdrawneek> no him shitting himself from it going bang
[03:39:45] <pg_user> this is a strange irc channel
[03:39:48] <Tempt> Anyone fancy banning pg_user? I'm getting mighty tired of this crap.
[03:39:53] <jpdrawneek> ya
[03:39:56] <pg_user> i'll just leave
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[03:40:04] <Tempt> Much better.
[03:40:05] <brandini> Yay!
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[03:40:10] <Tempt> Can we get a ban anyway? Forever?
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[03:42:29] <FrostCS> think Tpenta might be the only one awake.. or sober.. perhaps..
[03:42:44] <jpdrawneek> probably
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[03:43:34] <coffman> criple xen's os? lol
[03:43:47] <coffman> its cripled by design
[03:43:59] * brandini throws some SCSIs at his A1000
[03:45:13] <Tempt> I really need to pull the disks out of my A1000 and find a new use for them.
[03:46:08] * brandini does some hot swapping
[03:46:24] <Tempt> What can I do with a pile of 146Gb seagates?
[03:46:47] <brandini> email them to me?
[03:46:51] <Tempt> haha
[03:46:57] <brandini> :)
[03:47:00] <FrostCS> hold papers down when the windows break?
[03:47:13] <Tempt> I need to find someone who wants to swap these SCSI disks for some fibre channel
[03:47:14] <brandini> door stops for light doors
[03:47:45] <coffman> Tempt: for your 880?
[03:47:46] <FrostCS> I have a ton of old scsi I'd glady swap for sas
[03:47:51] <Tempt> coffman: yep.
[03:48:05] <Tempt> coffman: I've got 72 and 50gb disks in the bottom bay
[03:48:10] <Tempt> coffman: I'd like to replace them with 146s.
[03:48:42] <coffman> fibre disk should be not that expensive on ebay
[03:49:14] <jpdrawneek> yay for ebay
[03:49:35] <jpdrawneek> apart for evil hp disks
[03:50:32] <Megaf> how to open a .jnlp file?
[03:50:35] <Tempt> anyway, coffee time
[03:50:36] <Tempt> anyone?
[03:50:39] <Tempt> Megaf: javaws
[03:50:52] <Rawn027> 9 minutes to go :)
[03:50:57] <jpdrawneek> 3am good night all
[03:51:08] <Rawn027> im going to setup NV70 into a VM instead of writing over my only tower i have here
[03:51:09] <Rawn027> :-P
[03:51:43] <coffman> Megaf: just double click? oO
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[03:52:26] <FrostCS> I am going to control-alt-delete you
[03:55:20] <coffman> Megaf: "javaws $your.jnlp"
[03:55:29] <coffman> jnlp is java web start
[03:55:54] <Megaf> hm
[03:57:49] <Tempt> Where's the "hm"?
[03:59:32] <Megaf> mm
[03:59:33] <Megaf> um
[04:00:12] <Megaf> i have no javaws
[04:00:46] <brandini> when I plug a drive into the enclosure and it doesn't get a green light is that most likely a SCSI id conflict?
[04:00:54] <coffman> Megaf: /usr/java/bin/javaws
[04:00:55] <brandini> also... no orange light
[04:01:03] <coffman> not everything is in your path
[04:02:43] <brandini> oh wait, it's green now :)
[04:02:53] <brandini> it wanted to have some time alone I guess
[04:03:05] <brandini> wish I could log into this system!
[04:03:08] <Megaf> $ /usr/java/bin/javaws sdm20.jnlp
[04:03:09] <Megaf> Segmentation Fault (core dumped)
[04:03:10] <Megaf> pffffff
[04:03:26] <FrostCS> welcome to java-land
[04:03:26] <brandini> cleanup isle 3
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[04:05:59] <Megaf> $ /usr/java/bin/javaws
[04:05:59] <Megaf> Segmentation Fault
[04:06:00] <Megaf> shit
[04:06:11] <brandini> that's not what we like to see on a saturday night
[04:08:15] <Tempt> no core?
[04:09:01] <brandini> I have to wait until at least 3 .zips finish before I can go to bed because sun won't let me grab more than 2 at a time
[04:09:05] <brandini> :/
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[04:10:28] <Megaf> brandini, same here
[04:10:40] <brandini> they need more BW
[04:11:03] <brandini> I can pull down about 600KB/sec... and I'm only getting 300 total for two files
[04:12:04] <tsp> I was maxing out my bandwidth
[04:12:07] <tsp> on sun.com
[04:12:09] <Rawn027> how do i get my opensolaris VM to compile C++ code
[04:12:12] <tsp> all 550 kb/s or so
[04:12:19] <Rawn027> i did "export CXX=/usr/local/bin/gcc"
[04:12:35] <kjetilho> gcc is for C
[04:12:48] <tsp> Rawn027: you want g++ for c++
[04:13:01] <kjetilho> the difference is only in added libraries during linking, though
[04:13:02] <Tempt> haha
[04:13:03] <Tempt> gcc
[04:14:13] <Rawn027> configure: error: C++ compiler cannot create executables
[04:14:15] <Rawn027> whats that mean
[04:14:22] <Rawn027> besides the obvious statement
[04:14:32] <coffman> brandini: what you using for dl?
[04:15:10] <kjetilho> Rawn027: it means what the obvious statement means
[04:15:15] <kjetilho> like, duh!
[04:15:22] <Rawn027> how can i fix it :-P
[04:15:28] <Tempt> fix your compiler
[04:15:37] <kjetilho> are you still using gcc?
[04:15:38] <Tempt> and if your compiler is on /usr/local/bin
[04:15:42] <Tempt> there is a problem right there
[04:18:26] <Rawn027> ?
[04:18:32] <Rawn027> g++ and gcc is in usr local
[04:18:36] <richlowe> look at config.log
[04:18:38] <Tempt> Where did your get your compiler from?
[04:18:39] <richlowe> find out why it exploded.
[04:19:14] <Rawn027> whats the c++ compiler that ships with opensolaris?
[04:19:17] <Rawn027> is there one?
[04:19:26] <Rawn027> i was using sunfreeware's compiler
[04:19:29] <richlowe> g++
[04:19:33] <richlowe> /usr/sfw/bin/g++
[04:19:36] <Tempt> Don't use SunFreeware's anything
[04:19:44] <Tempt> if you're on sol10 or later look in /usr/sfw
[04:19:50] <Tempt> and install Studio
[04:19:57] <Rawn027> g++ isnt in sfw
[04:20:12] <Rawn027> im on opensolaris in a VM
[04:20:15] <Rawn027> to see if that would work
[04:20:39] <wesolows> g++ most definitely is in SFW
[04:21:12] <wesolows> Perhaps you didn't install the Developer metacluster.
[04:23:17] <Tempt> or perhaps it is one of those dodgy vmware images
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[04:24:11] <FrostCS> It is your chosen fate, VMware-r
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[04:25:49] <Rawn027> eww never use vmware prebuit images :)
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[04:30:59] <Tempt> oh dears.
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[04:35:12] <brandini> coffman: ff
[04:35:49] <coffman> brandini: the limit is ff not sun
[04:36:04] <coffman> brandini: ff only loads 2 dls at the same time
[04:36:21] <coffman> brandini: use curl with --location-trusted
[04:36:32] <brandini> coffman: I can grab from other sites more than two at a time?
[04:36:38] <brandini> hmmm ok, thanks
[04:37:28] <coffman> and when the dl rates are too low you stop the dl with ctrl+c and add a -C - before the url, this resumes the dl
[04:37:39] <coffman> reconnecting helps on the sdlc
[04:37:56] <coffman> i have 670k atm :P
[04:38:02] <brandini> hmmmm
[04:38:05] <tsp> not bad
[04:38:17] <brandini> I'm pulling a total of about 600k right now
[04:38:21] <brandini> 4x150
[04:38:24] <brandini> which is fine :)
[04:39:05] <brandini> ftp link works better :)
[04:39:24] <brandini> well...
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[04:42:01] <brandini> I should measure how much power I'm using right now :)
[04:42:22] <brandini> this 450 has kicked on the AC twice now and it's 55F outside
[04:42:46] <brandini> all for the sake of ZFS
[04:44:22] <Tempt> wow
[04:44:30] <Tempt> 450 shouldn't generate that much heat
[04:44:55] <brandini> well my mac mini is doing youtube right now too so... ;)
[04:45:04] <Tempt> heh.
[04:45:14] <Tempt> small 450 config shouldn't eat more than 300w
[04:45:25] <brandini> cool
[04:45:45] <brandini> the a1000 has a lot of fans going and 6 drives
[04:45:51] <brandini> maybe that's the source of the heat
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[04:50:02] <Chipdancer> can somebody tell me about projects and attributes in solaris?
[04:50:22] <Chipdancer> I changed my uid and gid by editing /etc/passwd and /etc/group and now I cannot su -
[04:50:56] <Chipdancer> my investigation so far seems to suggest it is something to do with projects and attributes, but I'm not quite seeing how to fix this situation
[04:56:35] <Chipdancer> I can login as root on the console, however, I cannot su to my user account from root either
[05:01:40] <boyd> Is there are error message?
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[05:06:00] <boyd> s/are/an
[05:09:33] <boyd> Tempt: I don't have the room :(
[05:10:05] <boyd> Be nice though
[05:10:43] <Tempt> Get rid of some existing hardware
[05:11:21] <Tempt> You could do a consolidation project like mine - reduce your machine count and replace with an 880
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[05:11:36] <boyd> True... I like the look of the 2500's better ATM.
[05:11:44] <Tempt> I got a power bill on Friday - it's actually down on the last bill.
[05:11:48] <boyd> I have a feeling the 880 will go up a lot.
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[05:12:03] <Tempt> Nah, the last 880 I saw went for $860
[05:12:19] <boyd> !
[05:12:21] <Tempt> The domestic market doesn't exactly rush to buy machines like that.
[05:12:30] <boyd> What sort of disks do they take in those bays?
[05:12:34] <boyd> Spuds?
[05:12:35] <Tempt> FC
[05:12:42] <Tempt> Yes, spuds
[05:12:43] <boyd> Hmm.
[05:12:48] <Tempt> FCAL disks though.
[05:12:56] <Tempt> I can give you some 50gb disks.
[05:13:01] <boyd> I have no FC spuds... shame I threw out 88 of them 6 months ago :(
[05:13:11] <Tempt> same brackets
[05:13:11] <boyd> (9GB)
[05:14:04] <boyd> Thing is, I like to have burnable installs... and a cluster. So ditching machines for 1 big one hurts that
[05:14:31] <boyd> (BTW this one is listed for more than $860 :) )
[05:14:36] <Tempt> Aah. So you need to have at least three machines.
[05:14:45] <Tempt> boyd: Yeah, $899. Bargain!
[05:14:51] <boyd> Heh
[05:14:54] <boyd> Buy it now for 999
[05:15:02] <Tempt> I doubt it'll get any bids.
[05:15:19] <Tempt> I have a search setup for 880s, the same vendor has listed this machine three times with no bids.
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[05:15:39] <boyd> Hmm...
[05:15:41] * boyd pnders
[05:15:45] <boyd> and then ponders
[05:16:06] <Tempt> You've got a pair of 250s now, right?
[05:16:15] <boyd> Yep.
[05:16:31] <boyd> (and a pair of SB100s, and an U10 and some whitebox stuff)
[05:16:50] <Tempt> Replace the 250s with the 880, keep the SB100s for build hosts
[05:17:07] <Tempt> Or cluster the 880 with one 250
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[05:17:39] * boyd thinks.
[05:17:40] <Tempt> The ebay 880 has the expansion disk backplane too, which gives you a total of 12 slots.
[05:17:54] <boyd> (but no disks :) )
[05:18:05] <Tempt> I'd swear a good part of my power saving came from moving my external JBOD's spindles into internal bays.
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[05:18:33] <boyd> Yeah, I haven't even plugges the D1000 in yet :)
[05:19:02] <boyd> Hmm... tax invoice... company purchase.. comes out of pre-tax income...
[05:19:27] <boyd> I wonder what it would cost to ship
[05:19:43] <Tempt> About $120
[05:19:51] <Tempt> I got a quote when I shipped mine
[05:19:57] <boyd> Hmm
[05:20:39] <Tempt> Easy to maintain.
[05:20:41] <Tempt> Lots of PCI slots.
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[05:22:17] * boyd feels like he's talking to a pusher for some reason.
[05:22:32] <dlg> mmmpci slots
[05:22:46] <Tempt> Everyone shoould have a V880.
[05:23:08] <boyd> I'm a little concerned about under-powered in the CPU dept
[05:23:11] <boyd> as well
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[05:23:21] <Tempt> Well, you can upgrade it.
[05:23:29] <Tempt> What's it come with? 4x750?
[05:23:44] <boyd> yesh
[05:23:45] <Tempt> just drop another two boards in
[05:23:51] <boyd> (me sounds drunk)
[05:23:54] <Tempt> 8x750 is pretty good.
[05:25:59] <boyd> It is, but that's extra..
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[05:26:10] <boyd> Tempt: What kind of RAM do they take?
[05:26:22] <boyd> (I mean, is it obscure?)
[05:27:16] <Tempt> same as blade1000/2000; 480/490/880/890; uniboards.
[05:27:27] <Tempt> Check sunsolve for the gory details.
[05:28:05] <boyd> Ok, it's on my watch list
[05:28:58] <Tempt> heh.
[05:29:38] <Tempt> There seems to be plenty of 880s hitting the market now.
[05:29:43] <Tempt> I want an 890 now.
[05:29:50] <boyd> End of support contracts coming up?
[05:29:58] <Tempt> end of leases usually.
[05:30:02] <boyd> of course
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[05:32:28] * boyd wonders where nrubsig is when he's been trying to congratulate him for 2 days
[05:32:40] <Tempt> He left earlier.
[05:32:56] <sponix> Hey.. I'm in.. and On Solaris !
[05:32:59] <boyd> D'oh! I thought he would be sleeping
[05:33:03] <coffman> boyd: he is a german, atm we have 5:32 am
[05:33:15] <boyd> coffman: Never stopped him before :)
[05:33:51] <coffman> im german too Oo
[05:34:18] <boyd> Indeed.
[05:34:29] <Tempt> If you get the 880 you'll have enough RAM to run ksh93 ;)
[05:34:35] <boyd> Lol
[05:34:36] <boyd> now now
[05:35:27] <coffman> yeah nrubsig needs a 880
[05:35:32] <Tempt> Oh, come on, I haven't taken a poke at it for days.
[05:35:53] <coffman> Tempt: no no im mean for real
[05:36:00] <boyd> Tempt: it doesnt' stand a chance against the >= 2 JVM's that Nevada runs by default :)
[05:36:04] <coffman> or even better you guys could get him a job
[05:36:11] <boyd> In Australia?
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[05:36:22] <sponi1> question though, I still had to put in a route by hand, and with route -p add default 192.168.1.10 1 it _should_ write it so that route takes place on boot, but where does it write that to (file wise) ?
[05:36:50] <coffman> unbeliveable that such a smart guy has trouble finding a job
[05:37:09] <coffman> a shame
[05:37:12] <sponi1> it doesn't seem to mention that when I "man route"
[05:37:26] <Tempt> coffman: Is he actually having real trouble?
[05:37:27] <boyd> Hmm.. normally /etc/defaultrouter
[05:37:41] <sponi1> boyd: that would make sense, let me look there
[05:37:58] <coffman> Tempt: yes
[05:37:58] <boyd> Maybe nobody would give him a job because they wanted him to finish the ksh93 integration first :)
[05:38:13] <coffman> he is a student in germany
[05:38:28] <coffman> in germany its all about the papers and marks
[05:38:37] * boyd thinks of "student" as meaning "not looking for a job"
[05:38:38] <sponi1> nope, no /etc/defaultroute created and it didn't get added to /etc/networks either from what I see
[05:38:45] <boyd> (at least not full time)
[05:39:22] <Tempt> not exactly easy to balance being a student and pulling 12 hour days + overtime + on call
[05:39:41] <coffman> tell me
[05:39:52] <coffman> done that, been there
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[05:40:07] <coffman> and now im only a student atm, with no money
[05:40:10] <boyd> sponi1: Try running truss -t open route -p ...
[05:40:10] <Doc> blah.. you people whinge too much
[05:40:32] <boyd> Comments from the SuperCoach
[05:40:52] <coffman> Doc: pff
[05:41:51] <boyd> coffman: Most students in Aus get menial jobs while they are students (waiter, supermarket, stripper^Wexotic dancer...)
[05:42:06] <Tempt> hooker
[05:42:12] <Tempt> bartender
[05:42:21] <Tempt> That's the lineup of traditional occupations for students.
[05:42:22] <boyd> Is this in descending order?
[05:42:43] <Tempt> Which is more demeaning? Hooking or working a checkout?
[05:42:46] <sponi1> boyd: ok... just put a truss -t open in front of my route... I'll try, is that like a debugging/tracking command ?
[05:43:12] <boyd> sponi1: yes, it will show the "open" system calls that the command makes
[05:43:20] <coffman> boyd: well, sure but nrubsig, he is such a bright guy and did this ksh93 thing so well
[05:43:25] <boyd> Tempt: I'm tstill thinking
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[05:43:41] <boyd> coffman: I agree... if I was looking to employ I'd hire him.
[05:43:55] <boyd> but it would double my list of employees :)
[05:44:01] <Doc> to 3?
[05:44:16] * boyd wonders if Doc works for sun marketing :)
[05:44:41] <boyd> Doc: Actually, yes, 3
[05:44:42] <sponi1>  /etc/inet/static_routes
[05:44:42] <Tempt> Heh, Boyd has an MCSE!
[05:44:48] <boyd> Ssshhh
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[05:45:02] <sponi1> boyd: thanks... thats a pretty sweet command
[05:45:09] <boyd> Actually an MCT too <blush>
[05:45:18] <boyd> But I think all my MS quals have expired
[05:45:31] <boyd> I told the woman who rang to warn me that I didn't care.
[05:45:49] <boyd> She just couldn't comprehend that I couldn't give a rat's ring
[05:45:58] <Tempt> haha.
[05:46:10] <Tempt> The interwebs tell all
[05:46:31] <boyd> Heh... no looking at that photo :)
[05:46:38] <boyd> sponi1: So, what file?
[05:46:41] <tsp> isn't MCSE a microsoft exam?
[05:46:46] <tsp> or is that something else I'm thinking of
[05:46:55] <boyd> tsp: yes, (several exams actually)
[05:47:10] <Tempt> boyd: Your photo isn't too bad, but Gunther's ... man.
[05:47:13] <Tempt> They stooged him.
[05:47:58] <boyd> I came back from backpacking in europe! I had no money! I was desperate! I didn't have enough self-respect to climb up to being a hooker, so I sank to the depths of teaching MCSE courses.
[05:48:15] <sponi1> boyd: /etc/inet/static_routes
[05:48:27] <boyd> Huh. Never would have got that
[05:48:33] <sponi1> boyd: I'm still _new_ to solaris, didn't even notice the /etc/inet dir was there
[05:48:36] <boyd> Tempt: It was Nick Frisina, BTW
[05:48:47] <Doc> photo? where?
[05:48:48] <boyd> sponi1: ls -l /etc/hosts
[05:48:49] <Tempt> boyd: Yeah, I know. He wasn't bad.
[05:48:57] <sponi1> boyd:  me either... I kept looking for *routes* in the base /etc/
[05:49:30] * coffman checks out pkgsrc on dfly
[05:49:35] <Tempt> boyd: AIX course was actually quite good for a freebie.
[05:49:38] <sponi1> boyd: aww... I see your point, a lot of files are symlinked to /etc/inet/
[05:49:55] <boyd> sponi1: It's all part of the SVR4 spec.
[05:50:27] <boyd> Tempt: Nick's pretty good. But he got the short straw with Sun training.... he is the SunMC guy
[05:50:32] <Tempt> ouch
[05:50:37] <Tempt> That's pretty horrible.
[05:50:47] <Doc> wait... Sun actually runs SunMC training?
[05:50:50] <sponi1> boyd: sounds like something I might need to read
[05:50:52] * boyd nods and shakes his head at the same time
[05:50:53] <Tempt> I just like his references to "dope smoking hippies" and such
[05:51:03] <Doc> does that mean someone actually got SunMC working?
[05:51:23] <Tempt> Doc: After five weeks of full time tinkering, they managed to get SunMC working in Telstra
[05:51:28] <Tempt> and then nobody ever logged into it.
[05:51:37] <boyd> sponi1: There is always man filesystem if you're having trouble sleeping
[05:51:56] <Doc> tempt: which part of telstra?
[05:51:58] <boyd> Tempt: the hippies being BSD? :)
[05:52:08] <boyd> ... or linux?
[05:52:17] <Doc> 'cos one part of telstra is the one place in australia where i know that they actually use SunMC
[05:52:29] <sponi1> boyd: omg I never thought of that... it gives the fs layout etc aye... I am getting ready to crash in a few min, I'll bring it up ;)
[05:52:39] <boyd> Heh
[05:52:41] <sponi1> boyd: maybe it will soak in through osmosis
[05:52:45] <boyd> hahah
[05:52:50] <boyd> sponi1: Coming from Linux?
[05:53:00] <sponi1> boyd: *cough* yes
[05:53:23] <sponi1> boyd: know just enough to be dangerous
[05:53:31] <boyd> sponi1: In general, my experience is that the answer is more often in a man page in solaris than it is in linux
[05:53:34] <boyd> (
[05:53:46] <boyd> and less often in a #$%# info page)
[05:53:59] <boyd> sponi1: Also, don't forget docs.sun.com
[05:54:07] <sponi1> boyd: that doesn't hurt my feelings, info whatever is ghey anyway...
[05:54:15] <sponi1> boyd: bigAdmin has been a friend to me
[05:54:24] <boyd> Yep, that's good too
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[05:54:32] <boyd> Welcome, BTW
[05:54:34] <sponi1> boyd: is there an easy way to get a list of all manpages available ?
[05:55:25] <sponi1> I have a couple hundred docs in PDF its just a matter of where to start/finish
[05:55:51] <boyd> pkgchk -v SUNWman is a start....
[05:57:04] <Tempt> Doc: Futuredge
[05:57:32] <sponi1> boyd: thanks again, I'm tickled that I have it up on the net static... After I get all the programs I want working I can safely ditch Linux now
[05:57:46] <boyd> :)
[05:57:59] <boyd> oh, there are many man pages in /usr/sfw/man/* too
[05:58:30] <Tempt> boyd: We should collaborate on a master profile for ksh93.
[05:58:30] <Shiv> boyd/sponil: pkgchk gives list of files installed with the SUNWman and not list of man pages.
[05:58:34] <sponi1> boyd: Know this sounds nuts, but with all the n00bz running Linux, and Linus Torvalds shooting his mouth off and other crazy events on the Linux side of the house, seems like a very good time to start backing Sun
[05:58:47] <boyd> Shiv: I know.
[05:58:59] <boyd> sponi1: :)
[05:59:06] <boyd> Shiv: It's a start
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[06:00:06] <Shiv> One crude method I follow is to run a find under root to get all the man dirs and make them part of manpath in the order I want it to appear.
[06:00:21] <Doc> tempt: ahh.. ok.  iMode spent a huge amount of time implementing it - now iMode is about to go away...
[06:00:38] <Tempt> Doc: It took a few guys from Sun ages to get it working for FE.
[06:01:01] <Tempt> Doc: And then nobody ever used it. As in, 6 months later some manager wanted to look at it and nobody could remember their login details.
[06:01:20] <Shiv> Using tkman (http://tkman.sourceforge.net) gives all the multiple occurences and browseable interface if one wishes to have one.
[06:01:21] <boyd> Shiv: I wasn't trying to be brief, not complete.
[06:01:28] <Shiv> boyd: Got it.
[06:02:10] <Shiv> One would need to create an index with the right MANPATH before using that tool.
[06:02:59] <Shiv> Didn't like the interface much and does some good job of representing the information different easy to access manner.
[06:03:13] <Shiv> Chow.
[06:03:21] <boyd> in zsh something like "print -l /{opt,usr}/*/man/*/*(:t:r) | sort -u" is a reasonable approximation
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[06:05:22] <boyd> (and the sort -u part could probably be elided with more zsh glob magic)
[06:05:31] <Tempt> zsh magic
[06:05:34] <Tempt> Fear it.
[06:05:57] <Chipdancer> boyd: # su - root
[06:05:57] <Chipdancer> Could not join default project
[06:06:01] <boyd> Come to teh dark side, Tempt
[06:06:04] <Chipdancer> su: unable to set credentials
[06:06:15] <Tempt> boyd: Tempting
[06:06:22] <boyd> Har de har har
[06:06:28] <Tempt> boyd: All those flashy features you keep demonstrating in your courses
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[06:07:15] <boyd> Chipdancer: I'd grep for the user account in /etc/{user_attr,projects,passwd} and see if anything looks wrong
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[06:07:37] <Tempt> Chipdancer: Run pwconv to sanity check it as well
[06:08:10] <Chipdancer> boyd: that example was root trying to become root while logged in on the console
[06:08:19] <boyd> Yikes
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[06:17:40] <Tempt> zsh is messing with the escape sequences in my prompt
[06:18:16] <boyd> More info?
[06:18:29] <Tempt> Seems to eat my escapes
[06:18:36] <Tempt> Ruining my colours.
[06:19:09] <Tempt> I'm sure zsh actually has an official way of colouring prompts that I haven't found out about yet.
[06:19:38] <boyd> Tempt: try this:
[06:19:45] <boyd> autoload -U colors; colors
[06:20:09] <Tempt> autoload?
[06:20:16] <boyd> then print "${fg[red]}hello${fg[default]}"
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[06:20:41] <boyd> Tempt: it means when I run this function, go find it in a file somewhere in $fpath
[06:20:49] <Tempt> okay.
[06:21:19] <Tempt> cool
[06:21:20] <Tempt> nifty.
[06:21:42] <boyd> It's more maintainable that coding the escapes yourself
[06:21:45] <boyd> than
[06:22:40] <Tempt> 'maintainable'
[06:22:46] <Tempt> ansi escapes don't change very often!!
[06:22:48] <sponi1> brb
[06:22:51] *** sponi1 has left #opensolaris
[06:23:05] <boyd> Ok, change your escape sequence from green to blue :)
[06:23:32] <Tempt> That's easy.
[06:23:44] <Tempt> change it from $green to $blue ;)
[06:23:49] <boyd> :P
[06:24:07] <Tempt> heh
[06:25:08] <Tempt> I'll have to look through your profile again to check out some of your customizations
[06:26:08] *** Megaf is now known as _Megaf|Sleep
[06:26:13] <_Megaf|Sleep> gn8
[06:26:56] <_Megaf|Sleep> cya
[06:35:09] <Rawn027> Tempt: so as for adding custom packages to OpenSolaris what do you recommend if you say never use SunFreeware?
[06:35:46] <Rawn027> do you just compile from source
[06:35:47] <Tempt> www.blastwave.org
[06:35:50] <Tempt> compile from source
[06:35:52] <Rawn027> oooo really
[06:35:53] <Tempt> PCOWtools ;)
[06:35:53] <Triskelios> SFE!
[06:36:11] * Triskelios is really annoyed by blastwave these days
[06:36:18] <Tempt> So am I
[06:36:27] <Tempt> hence PCOWtools gets bigger every couple of days
[06:36:39] <Rawn027> what is PCOWtools
[06:36:43] <Triskelios> never heard of that
[06:36:56] <Tempt> Mine compiled goodies for Solaris
[06:36:59] <Triskelios> neither has google
[06:37:16] <Tempt> At the moment not available for x86.
[06:37:22] <Tempt> So probably not that interesting.
[06:37:23] <Triskelios> SFE is really the best option for quality packages if you have spare CPU time
[06:37:37] <Rawn027> and SFE is?
[06:37:52] <Triskelios> http://pkgbuild.sf.net/ - maintained by sun employees
[06:38:01] <Triskelios> basically packages using the jds build system
[06:38:43] <Triskelios> with an attempt to stay up to date
[06:39:13] <Rawn027> better than blastwave?
[06:39:18] <Chipdancer> is there a relationship between blastwave and pkgbuild?
[06:39:21] <Rawn027> because i have used blastwave before
[06:39:24] <Tempt> You can always grab the latest PCOWtools at http://mexico.purplecow.org/tmp/PCOWtools.tar.gz
[06:39:25] <Triskelios> Chipdancer: no
[06:39:46] <Rawn027> Tempt: i am on x86 unfortunately
[06:39:54] <Triskelios> Rawn027: the packages tend to be up to date and don't install extra cruft
[06:40:15] <Rawn027> Triskelios: is there a package list?
[06:40:32] <sbahra> Tempt, hey
[06:40:33] <BatonT> whats a cp command to say backup a root filesystem to another directory
[06:40:38] <sbahra> Tempt, you know David Trowbridge?
[06:40:46] <Triskelios> Rawn027: there's no automatic pkg-get type thing yet =\
[06:40:47] <BatonT> cant seem to work out the solaris cp   its vastly different from linux cp
[06:40:48] <Tempt> sbahra: No?
[06:40:49] <Triskelios> Rawn027: http://pkgbuild.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pkgbuild/spec-files-extra/trunk/
[06:40:50] * sbahra isn't sure if purplecow was his
[06:41:10] <Tempt> was his what?
[06:41:27] <Rawn027> BatonT: cp?
[06:41:31] <Triskelios> Rawn027: there are very few prebuilt packages though, so you generally have to build them (but this is automated)
[06:41:50] <sbahra> Tempt, his baby
[06:41:53] <Rawn027> Triskelios: i have no problem building, id rather build then use packages IMHO
[06:42:02] <BatonT> Rawn027: copy...  i just want to copy everything on / fs to another dir  preserving permissions symbolic links etc..
[06:42:02] <Tempt> sbahra: Now you've got me confused.
[06:42:10] <Tempt> sbahra: BTW, got camp built and fixed.
[06:42:13] <sbahra> Tempt, if not are thenn why?
[06:42:14] <Rawn027> use rsync
[06:42:30] <sbahra> Tempt, Nice. Does it display properly though? It was using /dev/console heavily.
[06:42:37] <Tempt> sbahra: Yes, it displays
[06:42:47] <sbahra> Cool.
[06:42:48] <Tempt> sbahra: It took a lot of work and uses of the debugger to find the segfaults.
[06:42:53] <sbahra> You should send the authors a patch.
[06:42:56] <Rawn027> blastwave has a terribly out of date version of freeradius
[06:43:07] <Tempt> sbahra: It still isn't perfect. The author couldn't give a rats (I got some email back from him)
[06:43:20] <sbahra> haha
[06:43:27] <sbahra> Tempt, mind if you forward it to me? :-P
[06:43:28] <Triskelios> Rawn027: sadly SFE has no package of that =\
[06:43:33] <Tempt> http://mexico.purplecow.org/tmp/camp1.jpg
[06:43:35] <sbahra> I like reading responses from asshole maintainers.
[06:43:37] <Tempt> screenshot proof
[06:43:40] <Rawn027> damn
[06:43:43] <Tempt> sbahra: Oh, he isn't an asshole at all
[06:43:46] * Triskelios wonders how quickly he can generate one
[06:43:52] <Tempt> He's just not maintaining it anymore
[06:44:05] <coffman> pmpkg is quite nice http://freshmeat.net/projects/pmpkg/
[06:44:25] <Rawn027> Triskelios: is it hard to make spec files for SFE
[06:44:25] <Tempt> I'm still having some hassles with the keyboard routines but nearly there
[06:44:32] <Tempt> To be honest, it isn't a very good player.
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[06:45:10] <sbahra> Tempt, ah, ok.
[06:45:22] <coffman> Rawn027: pmpkg is so much easier
[06:45:30] <Triskelios> Rawn027: fairly easy, actually. generally I make a basic file with the depedencies, build it, then figure out the correct file list
[06:45:54] <Rawn027> well im having a hell of a time trying to get iperf and freeradius to build
[06:45:56] <Rawn027> thats my issue
[06:46:01] <Tempt> sbahra: As to your previous comments, purplecow.org is my domain - I'm not sure if anyone is doing anything else purple cow related except some wankstain released a marketing textbook with purplecow in the title
[06:46:41] <boyd> Ha! "wankstain"
[06:46:46] * boyd returns to RL
[06:47:05] * sbahra got a networkredux hosting account
[06:47:09] <sbahra> :-/ They advertise SVN.
[06:47:18] <Tempt> Subversion?
[06:47:20] <sbahra> It seems they don't really support SVN over HTTP though.
[06:47:25] <sbahra> Tempt, yes.
[06:48:15] <sbahra> hahaha!
[06:48:38] <sbahra> Ann Coulter accepted my facebook friend request.
[06:48:41] <sbahra> ahahaha
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[06:49:55] <Tempt> Oh dears.
[06:50:21] <purserj> Ann Coulter?
[06:51:08] * purserj reads wiki
[06:51:09] <purserj> ah
[06:56:14] <gdamore> anyone seen recent problems with stock ftpd in solaris?
[06:56:26] <gdamore> e.g.: 551 Error on input file: Invalid argument.
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[06:57:52] <dclarke> jbk : ??
[06:57:54] <Triskelios> Rawn027: sun directory server (DSEE) includes a RADIUS server, btw
[06:58:37] <dclarke> anyone seen jbk ?
[06:59:06] * dclarke mutters something about server abuse
[06:59:31] <Rawn027> Triskelios: thats awesome news! is it free?
[06:59:34] <Tempt> dclarke: Who's abusing your servers?
[06:59:59] <gdamore> i'm trying to use ftp to validate NIC drivers.. the NICDRV test suite uses scripted FTP....
[07:00:12] <Triskelios> Rawn027: as in beer, yes
[07:00:16] <dclarke> Tempt : no one really .. Jason is killing his own server
[07:00:34] <dclarke> Tempt: well .. it's my server but I allocted it to him .. and wow ..
[07:00:39] <Rawn027> Triskelios: i need an option that is free
[07:01:02] <dclarke> cannot fork: no swap space
[07:01:13] <dclarke> that's not good
[07:01:18] <Tempt> oh dear.
[07:01:23] <Tempt> Something got hungry for memory.
[07:01:24] <dclarke> oh dear
[07:01:50] <Triskelios> Rawn027: it costs nothing, but it's not free-software afaik
[07:02:00] <Rawn027> thats confusing
[07:02:01] <Rawn027> hehe
[07:02:06] <Rawn027> so its not opensource?
[07:02:08] <jbk> dclarke: hello
[07:02:11] <Tempt> It isn't GNUlitically correct
[07:02:31] <dclarke> jbk : at this point McCoy used to say "It's dead Jim"
[07:02:35] <jbk> it's running out of swap!?!
[07:02:40] <dclarke> jbk: :-P
[07:02:43] <jbk> dang
[07:02:46] <dclarke> $ su -
[07:02:47] <dclarke> cannot fork: no swap space
[07:02:53] <dclarke> what the heck are you running ?
[07:02:54] <Tempt> that dmake -j 999 killed you...
[07:03:03] <jbk> should be 3 processes at most
[07:03:10] <dclarke> uh huh ...
[07:03:12] <jbk> 1 perl script that forks off 2 copies of /usr/ccs/bin/dis
[07:03:15] <dclarke> doing what exactly ?
[07:03:23] <dclarke> uh huh
[07:03:26] * dclarke mutters
[07:03:31] <jbk> one using /usr/lib/libdisasm.so, one using (via LD_PRELOAD) the one i'm working on
[07:03:40] <dclarke> well ya killed it alright .. right messed up it tis
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[07:03:59] <jbk> it reads a line from each, does some comparisons, if different, spits out (to stdout) the two lines (which is being redirected to a file in my home directory)
[07:04:00] * dclarke looks for a hammer
[07:04:12] <jbk> then calling wait on each to reap
[07:04:19] <dclarke> well my friend .. you take the prize
[07:04:22] <richlowe> I was about to ask if it was waiting on the children.
[07:04:33] <dclarke> in five years no one has ever borked up a server *this* badly here
[07:04:47] <richlowe> except for dennis himself, obviously ;)
[07:04:48] <jbk> actually if there's space for a core dump, i'd be _really_ curious to load up mdb
[07:04:55] <jbk> hehe
[07:05:02] <dclarke> so ... let's give it some time before the almight hand of God trips the power switch
[07:05:20] <jbk> i kicked off the stuff around 6:15pm cst
[07:05:27] <dclarke> richlowe: yeah well .. but I do it on purpose
[07:05:34] <jbk> basically it's doing that on around 7000 files
[07:05:37] <jbk> (sequentially)
[07:05:42] <dclarke> by the way .. anyone else runnung snv_70 here ?
[07:06:05] <dclarke> the new installed has me scratching my head
[07:06:14] <dclarke> installer
[07:06:18] <brandini> sol 10 sparc on booting!
[07:06:19] <jbk> i've run the script several times over the past 2 weeks or so
[07:06:27] <jbk> with no problems
[07:06:37] <dclarke> hrmmm .. well let's just leave it
[07:06:46] <dclarke> it may work things out and then recover all on its own
[07:06:57] <dclarke> but I may need to set a few things in /etc/system for you
[07:07:29] <dclarke> http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/opensolaris/etc_system.txt
[07:07:55] <dclarke> set reserved_procs = 254
[07:08:01] <dclarke> that would be useful here
[07:08:30] <jbk> hell, put me in a project and set the rss cap to 512m
[07:08:38] <dclarke> ha ha
[07:08:42] <dclarke> no .. you are root
[07:08:50] <dclarke> you can do whatever you need or want
[07:08:57] <dclarke> if it goes nuts .. I'll help
[07:09:00] <dclarke> if I can
[07:09:01] <BatonT> when i remove the dvdrom drive from solaris box, it runs really slow (X logon takes ~10min to come up from boot etc..)    after further investigation its trying to access the non-existant drive...  how should i 'safely' remove the drive, so solaris isn't expecting to find it?/
[07:09:12] * dclarke scratches head
[07:09:15] <jbk> well i might set that up, just so if it happens again, i can figure out what's going on
[07:09:29] <BatonT> dclarke: yeah i installed snv70 lastnight  its a bit different..
[07:09:33] <jbk> you can look at the script -- it's a pretty simple perl script
[07:09:45] <BatonT> dclarke: text installer inside X
[07:09:50] <dclarke> BatonT : yeah .. weird different .. I don't want DHCP but that it whjat I got
[07:10:08] <dclarke> also .. I didn't get to pick my disk filesystem layout
[07:10:25] <BatonT> dclarke: oh, i managed to not get dhcp... but i think it searches for dhcp addresses before it gets into X.... try unplugging NIC till you get into X perehaps?
[07:10:26] <richlowe> Yeah, that's what you get for using the DE installer.
[07:10:34] <jbk> while(<NEW>) { chomp; $old = <OLD>; chomp $old; compare($new, $old) } wait; wait; essentially
[07:10:35] <dclarke> and when I was asked to create a first user .. no optiosn for home dir location or uid number or gid info
[07:10:42] <BatonT> richlowe: DE?
[07:10:42] <jbk> repeat for each file to test
[07:10:52] <dclarke> DE?
[07:10:57] <jbk> where NEW and OLD are pipes to /usr/ccs/bin/dis
[07:11:02] <dclarke> oooh
[07:11:07] <Chipdancer> dclarke: developer edition
[07:11:08] <dclarke> Developer Edition
[07:11:09] <BatonT> everytime i install solaris  im NEVER prompted to create a regular user...
[07:11:12] <dclarke> yeah .. yeah yeah
[07:11:16] <dclarke> that is the issue
[07:11:19] <dclarke> okay
[07:11:22] <dclarke> I'll reinstall
[07:11:31] <BatonT> i didnt install the DE one..  i picked the 2nd option in the cdrom boot menu
[07:11:35] <dclarke> yep .. may as well reinstall
[07:11:40] <BatonT> i fell into that trap last time i installed it
[07:12:03] <dclarke> well .. I wanted to try out the full blown version with Studio pre-installed etc etc
[07:12:23] <dclarke> also .. I really wonder where did JDS go ?  Now it says GNOME but still Sun Microsystem Inc
[07:12:37] <BatonT> you could perhaps manually install sun studio from dvd after install?
[07:12:53] <dclarke> jbk : let's leave it to flail .. I'll fix it ... eventually if needed
[07:12:56] <dclarke> jbk : okay ?
[07:13:41] <dclarke> Solaris Express Developer Edition 9/07 Survey .. cool
[07:14:03] <brandini> hmmmm, how do I get into openboot to tell it to boot the cd?
[07:14:19] <dclarke> brandini: hit STOP-A
[07:14:26] <brandini> oh stop!
[07:14:27] <brandini> shoot
[07:14:30] * dclarke mutters L1-A
[07:14:32] <brandini> I was hitting ctrl
[07:14:50] <dclarke> I'll assume you have another machine
[07:15:04] <dclarke> hitting STOP-A will really drop your session here
[07:15:07] <dclarke> :-)
[07:15:20] <brandini> naw, I'm on another box ;)
[07:15:30] <jbk> dclarke: that's fine
[07:16:07] <dclarke> okay .. so it looks like we are going to get snv_70b delivered
[07:16:38] <jbk> b? does that imply 2 respins?
[07:16:50] <Tempt> http://evil.hackademix.net/fullscreen/applet.html
[07:16:51] <dclarke> I'm guessing
[07:17:12] <brandini> where the heck is stop!
[07:17:13] <dclarke> jbk: the survery just asked me if I am running snv_70 or 70a or 70b
[07:17:26] <dclarke> brandini: what sort of keyboard do you have ?
[07:17:48] <Tempt> brandini: You on a serial console?
[07:17:49] <brandini> type 6
[07:18:02] <dclarke> type 6 eh ?
[07:18:04] <Tempt> Then stop is on the left hand side
[07:18:11] <Tempt> that bank of keys
[07:18:12] <Tempt> top left
[07:18:15] <dclarke> look around .. there should be a button on there that says "stop"
[07:18:20] <brandini> phew
[07:18:21] <Tempt> Hence L1
[07:18:26] <brandini> it's after one here
[07:18:28] <brandini> I'm just tired
[07:18:33] <brandini> now I can do a boot cdrom
[07:18:36] * dclarke makes fresh coffee
[07:19:16] <Tempt> dclarke: Ooh, I'll have a cup.
[07:19:35] <dclarke> for you .. I'll add whiskey
[07:19:53] <brandini> Yay!
[07:19:56] <brandini> :/
[07:19:59] <Tempt> Oh, not in the same cup, please!
[07:20:02] <Tempt> Whisky on the side!
[07:20:05] <brandini> Can't open boot device
[07:20:07] <brandini> :(
[07:20:08] <dclarke> in the same cup ..
[07:20:22] <dclarke> brandini: did you do "boot cdrom"
[07:20:25] <Tpenta> hello dennis
[07:20:26] <brandini> yup
[07:20:33] <brandini> must have burned a bum dvd?
[07:20:34] <dclarke> Tpenta: good day Sir
[07:20:43] * brandini checks his downloads
[07:20:46] <Tempt> or put a DVD in the CD-ROM drive that ships with 880s
[07:20:47] <Tempt> sorry 450s
[07:20:56] <Tempt> He's using a 450, they didn't ship with DVD drives
[07:21:04] <brandini> it's got a dvd drive
[07:21:14] <dclarke> well everyone .. I'm going to do a fresh install from the ground up here
[07:21:25] <Tempt> On your coffee?
[07:21:28] <brandini> haha
[07:21:43] <dclarke> hey .. anyone seen this ? http://sunflash.sun.com/articles/114/3/opt-sysadmin/18479
[07:21:46] <brandini> Tempt: dunno man, let me md5 my zips
[07:21:49] <dclarke> Logical Domains: Create 64 with New UltraSPARC T2 Processor
[07:21:55] <Tempt> nice.
[07:21:58] <dclarke> man .. that just is amazing
[07:22:06] <Tempt> catching up to POWER there.
[07:22:12] <dclarke> you really can run different Operating Systems on the same chip in separate domains
[07:22:22] <dclarke> catching POWER ?   killing it I think
[07:22:39] <brandini> there is a steady breeze coming from the back of my 450
[07:22:43] <Tempt> LPARs have been around for a long time
[07:22:53] <dclarke> http://blogs.sun.com/ash/resource/flashdemos/linux-ldom.html
[07:23:04] <Tempt> and the lowest end POWER box does LPARs
[07:24:39] <dclarke> T5220 ... I must go look that up
[07:25:32] <Tempt> Is that on the market now?
[07:25:41] <jbk> Tempt: but they supposedly have a rather high overhead
[07:26:15] <brandini> hmmm, my openboot is rusty :P
[07:26:36] <Tempt> I'm not going to enter into a debate on LPARs vs LDOMs on #opensolaris.
[07:26:57] <Tempt> I'm just saying LPARs have been around longer than LDOMs.
[07:27:11] <dclarke> okay .. gotta go boot snv_70 .. again
[07:27:16] <dclarke> fresh install
[07:27:21] <dclarke> catch y'all later
[07:28:03] <dclarke> jbk : ??
[07:28:13] <jbk> yes?
[07:28:14] <BatonT> whats the file i need to create to get solaris to recan hardware on boot?
[07:28:26] <dclarke> jbk : please try a login to mercury
[07:28:41] <Tempt>  /reconfigure
[07:28:48] <jbk> hmm
[07:28:51] <jbk> seems to be ok now
[07:29:00] <dclarke> yes .. indeed
[07:29:13] <dclarke> as per usual .. Solaris recovered from horrendous abuse
[07:29:19] *** bondolo has quit IRC
[07:29:28] <dclarke> but .. I think there will be emotional problems
[07:29:42] <brandini> em0 panda?
[07:29:48] <Rawn027> there are like 5 packages available in SFE
[07:30:03] <Rawn027> Triskelios: is that all there is available is what comes with the install?
[07:30:06] <dclarke> what is SFE ?
[07:30:25] <Rawn027> http://freshmeat.net/projects/pmpkg/
[07:30:30] <Triskelios> dclarke: http://pkgbuild.sf.net/
[07:30:34] <dclarke> Rawn027: ah
[07:30:37] <Triskelios> Rawn027: pmpkg is unrelated
[07:30:44] <dclarke> okay .. well ...
[07:31:02] <dclarke> if you are looking for some open source software .. it may be at Blastwave.org
[07:31:03] <jbk> hmm big core file
[07:31:14] <dclarke> jbk : have fun with that
[07:31:22] * dclarke goes to reinstall
[07:31:22] <jbk> and on the plus side
[07:31:27] <jbk> it wasn't my lib that caused it :)
[07:31:48] <jbk> i think dis -C is dieing on one of the acrobat reader plugins
[07:31:53] <dclarke> jbk : when the new SXDE comes out .. you want that installed ?
[07:31:53] <jbk> trying to demangle something
[07:32:24] <dclarke> oh geez .. I'm really going now
[07:32:27] <Triskelios> dclarke: SFE is a repository of pkgbuild packages (jds uses pkgbuild) and might be a staging ground for some jds packages
[07:32:31] <dclarke> back in an hour or more
[07:32:44] <jbk> doesn't matter to me
[07:33:03] <richlowe> jbk: which plugins?
[07:33:20] <jbk> well, it gets cut off
[07:33:22] <jbk> so i'm not sure
[07:33:23] <richlowe> oh, eh, not that I can check, since there's no acrobat reader on here.
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[07:33:26] <Rawn027> seems like there is not enough packages available'
[07:33:38] <jbk> core 'core' of 2130:    /usr/ccs/bin/dis -C /usr/lib/AdobeReader/Reader/sparcsolaris/plug_ins/
[07:34:07] <coffman> omg
[07:35:57] <axisys> is nfsv4 allowed in sol 8?
[07:36:05] <richlowe> jbk: hey, you could fix that as you go ;)
[07:36:32] <jbk> aha! -- ((char **) 0xffbffb3cU)
[07:36:33] <jbk> *((char **) 0xffbffb3cU) = 0xffbffc1c "/usr/lib/AdobeReader/Reader/sparcsolaris/plug_ins/AcroForm.api"
[07:36:39] <jbk> that would be the guilty party
[07:36:44] <BatonT> is the cdrom device the same naming convention as a hard disk?
[07:37:32] <BatonT> i have an issue where even after a /reconfigure  solaris is still trying to access a non-existant dvdrom drive (which used to be device c0d0 afaik)
[07:37:46] <jbk> try devfsadm -C
[07:37:56] <jbk> but yes, they all live under /dev/dsk
[07:38:33] <BatonT> i had this issue before i think i just deleted the device under /dev  but i cant remember
[07:39:06] <BatonT> hmm devfsadm -C is hanging
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[07:40:02] <jbk> give it a bit
[07:40:03] <brandini> well, so far all my iso.zips are looking good
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[07:44:45] <brandini> ok, so all the files have the right md5
[07:44:54] <brandini> but boot cdrom still does not work ?
[07:47:07] <axisys> nfs mount changes it ports.. can I reserve a fix port. here the client first talks to server on rpc port (111) and then client  talks to server on a higher port 56475.. the fw guys needs a fix port
[07:47:40] <axisys> http://pastebin.ca/662993 <-- forgot to paste url
[07:47:43] <brandini> oh shoot
[07:47:54] <brandini> "Bad magic number in disk label"
[07:48:02] <brandini> Can't open disk label package
[07:48:11] <brandini> Evaluating: boot cdrom
[07:48:18] <Tempt> haha, you did grab SPARC didn't you?
[07:48:23] <brandini> yeah
[07:48:34] <Tempt> try another drive
[07:48:36] <Tempt> or reburn
[07:48:47] * brandini creates a fresh iso
[07:48:57] <axisys> brandini: i had trouble then I went with network boot
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[07:53:00] <brandini> burning DVD's is the awesomer!
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[07:55:00] <axisys> how do I nfs mount thru fw if the second (redirect port) keep changing?
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[07:55:14] <coffman> Tempt: evil
[07:55:57] <Tempt> evil?
[07:56:04] <brandini> hopefully the pager stays quiet tonight
[07:56:25] <coffman> Tempt: the link
[07:56:32] <Tempt> aah
[07:56:35] <Tempt> Yes, nasty
[07:56:54] <Tempt> At least the demo applet allows you to get out.
[07:57:56] <coffman> i triggert my red button oO
[07:58:03] <coffman> the one that cuts my internet
[07:58:15] <Tempt> oh, you just clik on the black to quit it.
[07:58:29] <Tempt> It's just a demo
[07:58:49] <coffman> yeah :P
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[07:58:55] <coffman> well
[07:58:59] <Tempt> Imagine that with a random sleep in it.
[07:59:00] <coffman>  time for no-script
[07:59:10] <Tempt> Could be fired up from any browser tab
[07:59:19] <coffman> sure
[07:59:28] <coffman> that was what happend
[07:59:40] <oxygene> moin coffman
[08:00:00] <coffman> im way to sleepy :P
[08:00:03] <coffman> oxygene: hey ha
[08:00:23] <coffman> oxygene: df runs on the t40
[08:00:38] <oxygene> cool :)
[08:00:40] <coffman> oxygene: im installing software right now
[08:00:50] <oxygene> :)
[08:01:11] <coffman> oxygene: which name does the ath card have in ifconfig?
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[08:02:30] <oxygene> coffman: ath0, once you kldload if_ath
[08:06:27] <axisys> i got it ..
[08:06:33] <axisys> i had to use -o public
[08:06:40] <axisys> to skip the mount protocol
[08:06:50] <axisys> and just use nfsd port
[08:08:58] <coffman> omg, if you think about that mozilla goes to add iron-python/ruby
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[08:29:37] <palowoda> Holy mother of god.  Solaris could pick up a few tips from usability, multimedia etc from this linuxmce videio: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2176025602905109829&hl=en   I'm not expecting OpenSolaris to be that but it's something to consider the features down the road.
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[08:35:28] <sbahra> #opensolaris needs a ritalin
[08:40:22] * WickedWicky shares
[08:42:42] <coraline> erm.
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[08:46:02] <coraline> regarding that video:  I'll believe it when I see it myself.
[08:46:17] <coraline> The linux community has a habit of promising ease of use that simply is not realistic.
[08:46:36] <palowoda> Yeah they make video like that for fun.
[08:46:46] <palowoda> Nothing better to do.
[08:47:07] <coraline> No, they make videos like that on their personal system which is known to work.
[08:47:22] <coraline> however, it simply doesn't work as advertised on every system.
[08:47:30] <WickedWicky> hey, they use the WINTV 150 card, I own that card
[08:48:09] <coraline> I'd bet you I can take this 4 year old Sony system next to me that has video card/tvcard/remote control etc all built in...
[08:48:10] <palowoda> I said OpenSolaris has something to learn from the video.  I could care less about Linux or MS.
[08:48:13] <coraline> and I'd bet it won't work.
[08:48:16] <moazamraja> them fonts look like ass.
[08:48:27] <moazamraja> as in, a donkey.
[08:48:29] <Tempt> opensolaris has nothing to learn from that video
[08:48:34] <coraline> palowoda: I disagree.  Solaris is designed primarily as a SERVER OS.
[08:48:53] <coraline> If you want a nice desktop toy, get a windows or macos box.
[08:49:10] <palowoda> Keep a close mind.
[08:49:23] <Tempt> I doubt Solaris will be suitable for the drooling market any year now.
[08:49:28] <coraline> You seem to be getting awfully defensive there pal.
[08:49:46] <coraline> Solaris is a tool, so is Linux.  Use a tool for what it's intended.
[08:50:09] <palowoda> And you know how it intended to be used.
[08:50:28] <coraline> just because your sense of identity and manliness are linked to being able to use Linux, doesn't mean it's that way for everyone.
[08:50:32] <coraline> Yes.  I think I do.
[08:50:37] <coraline> I'm fairly qualified.
[08:50:38] <Tempt> Linux community are focussed on such things because they're trying to increase userbase any way they can.
[08:50:49] <Tempt> Still upset because there are more Windows users than Ubuntu users
[08:50:50] <BatonT> how to i get outta a zone console (zlogin -C)  ?
[08:50:55] <coraline> sacrificing good sysadmin skills in the process.
[08:50:59] <richlowe> BatonT: ~.
[08:51:21] <BatonT> richlowe: thanks!
[08:51:22] <palowoda> Lets remove video cards altoghter from Solaris.  They are not needed.
[08:51:29] <coraline> in fact, they're not.
[08:51:35] <coraline> 99% of Sun boxes are headless.
[08:51:50] <WickedWicky> richlowe: how will that work when you're in a zlogin via ssh? "~~." ? ~. is suposed to break your ssh connection
[08:51:52] <coraline> I don't have a single monitor hooked to the 2000 Sun systems at the office.
[08:52:05] <coraline> I ssh to them all or console login.
[08:52:09] <moazamraja> palowoda: what you're saying is well & good, but the fact is that there are more important areas that Solaris needs to concentrate on right now
[08:52:16] <richlowe> WickedWicky: more ~'s, yes.
[08:52:23] <WickedWicky> ah cool, thank you
[08:52:24] <moazamraja> palowoda: once that is taken care of, then things like media center distros and what not can be looked into
[08:52:55] <WickedWicky> I'll put that in the FAQ at work, before ppl are gonna kill their SSH connection to the stepping stone ;-)
[08:52:55] <moazamraja> personally, I wanna see an appliance framework/skeleton in Solaris
[08:53:04] <coraline> I'd really rather not see Solaris turned into the shit that linux is.
[08:53:23] <moazamraja> for stuff like fileservers, web-appliances, etc.
[08:53:45] <coraline> moazamraja: never heard of NFS?  WebSphere?  Sun One?
[08:53:55] <palowoda> boring.
[08:54:06] <WickedWicky> WebSphere application serveer.. hoorah
[08:54:27] <coraline> don't get me wrong, I despise WAS.  However, it's there.
[08:54:32] <WickedWicky> lol
[08:54:34] <moazamraja> coraline: yeah, but..., I'm talking about making appliance devices
[08:54:35] <moazamraja> anyways
[08:54:44] <Tempt> And man, if someone wants to make Solaris a bit more desktop friendly
[08:54:49] <Tempt> how about some BLUETOOTH support already?
[08:55:07] <coraline> who, in their right mind, would want Solaris on their desktop?
[08:55:14] <WickedWicky> coraline, I know what you mean, it's just that this name brings back memories.. not all too positive ;-)
[08:55:18] <LeftWing> Tempt: Servers don't need bluetooth.
[08:55:19] <coraline> server, sure.  Desktop?  MacOS is better.
[08:55:19] <moazamraja> appliance != desktop
[08:55:24] <WickedWicky> coraline: I am using it as desktop
[08:55:29] <coraline> WickedWicky: PTSD?  lol.
[08:55:34] <Tempt> LeftWing: What if they're bluetooth spam servers?
[08:55:44] <LeftWing> Tempt: I.. have nothing for that. =P
[08:56:23] <Tempt> Ha, tempt:1 leftwing:0
[08:56:24] <coraline> why would you even have to use linux for this mce stuff?
[08:56:34] <coraline> it's not even linux, it's some drooling moron interface over linux.
[08:56:52] <palowoda> coraline: You don't use video cards why would it matter?
[08:56:55] <Tempt> actually, for about $AU200 you can buy a box (linux embedded) with wifi, ethernet, room for a SATA hard drive and a dedicated media player OS
[08:56:58] <coraline> It's eventually going to have one button:  [ push here, stupid ]
[08:57:07] <Tempt> even has a remote control and SVIDEO, DVI, Component and composite outputs
[08:57:10] <Tempt> and optical digital
[08:57:19] <Tempt> Now, that's a suitable Linux media centre IMHO
[08:57:27] <coraline> palowoda: Oh, I do use a video card.  In my Windows desktop and I open multiple ssh windows with PuTTY.
[08:57:32] <WickedWicky> the STBs we deliver for iDTB in the netherlands run Linux
[08:57:40] <coraline> see, Windows was meant to be a desktop OS, and it does a nice job of that.
[08:57:46] <palowoda> coraline: Glad you use windows.
[08:57:49] <coraline> They try to stretch it into server space, and it's just ass.
[08:57:58] <LeftWing> Well there's no accounting for taste. =P
[08:58:06] <coraline> palowoda: let me guess, you don't?  and you somehow think that makes you better than me?
[08:58:46] <palowoda> coraline: Give me a break.
[08:58:47] <Tempt> I use Solaris on one of my workstations.
[08:58:48] <coraline> if so.  well.  You go with that.
[08:59:00] <WickedWicky> coraline: I use both Windows and Linux and OpenSolaris as my desktop, one I prefer to use for certain things over the other, it's all a matter of preference and what you wanna do and what you're satisfied with
[08:59:09] <Tempt> Given that consists of running fluxbox + rxvt I could run it on nearly any OS around the place
[08:59:38] <coraline> WickedWicky: indeed.  but endeavouring to turn one into the other forcibly is just silly IMNSHO.
[09:00:02] <coraline> If you want features of B, use B.  If you want features of A, use A.  If you need both, use both.
[09:00:08] <coraline> why the OS Jihad?
[09:00:12] <coraline> I never did get that.
[09:00:31] <Tempt> anti-linux jihad
[09:00:32] <Tempt> durka-durka
[09:00:38] <coraline> lalalalalalalalal
[09:00:40] <WickedWicky> I dont see Solaris itself being turned into a Desktop OS. But I can imagine that there will come a spring-off project derived from Opensolaris source code one day that will focus on multimedia and such, and I dont think there is anything wrong with that
[09:01:11] <Tempt> I wonder when people will stop confusing desktops and GUIs and crap with the OS
[09:01:18] <LeftWing> Tempt: Hear, hear.
[09:01:31] <WickedWicky> if we kept things for what they were originaly intended for we'd still be on 286s with 16MB RAM
[09:01:37] <Tempt> The desktop environment could run on anything.
[09:01:44] <coraline> Tempt: it's not -linux- I have a problem with.  It's the users, the "admins" (I use the term loosely), and the people who "Praaaaaaise Linux!  Halleluja!"
[09:01:49] <Tempt> It's like saying FreeBSD is better than Solaris because it comes with a new version of GNOME
[09:01:59] <WickedWicky> Tempt: and it's so true!
[09:02:00] * WickedWicky runs
[09:02:02] <Tempt> coraline: Oh, I think Linux is a stinking waste of time.
[09:02:08] <coraline> lol.
[09:02:27] <palowoda> I said in the beginning Solaris can learn from usablity from the video.
[09:02:36] <coraline> pkg-get, apt-get, up2date.  that stuff makes me want to puke in my soup.
[09:02:51] <oxygene> Tempt: "just works" can be enough of a differentiator
[09:02:52] * Tempt hands WickedWicky a beer.
[09:03:05] <WickedWicky> heya mate :) everything alright?
[09:03:10] <Tempt> Who buys UNIX systems based on that?
[09:03:14] <WickedWicky> constructioners still busy?
[09:03:21] <BatonT> so far debian linux causes me far less grief than solaris
[09:03:26] <Tempt> Who says "I'll buy $OS for my server because my desktop just works"?
[09:03:42] <coraline> tempt: a linux user.
[09:03:44] <LeftWing> Tempt: Managers.
[09:03:57] <coraline> baton: then you're not doing anything useful with it.
[09:03:59] <Tempt> Nobody says "I'll buy myself a T2000 because I like JDS"
[09:04:05] <coraline> I can do nothing just as quickly as debian can.
[09:04:14] <coraline> tempt: linux users.
[09:04:15] <Tempt> They say "I'll buy a T2000 and strip GNOME as part of my reduced webserver build."
[09:04:21] <LeftWing> Tempt: But they say "We'll buy some HP servers with Windows because I like my Windows desktop."  ;P
[09:04:27] <WickedWicky> coraline: I think you're a bit exagurating now
[09:04:40] <palowoda> She has from the start.
[09:04:47] <Tempt> LeftWing: Sssh!
[09:04:58] <LeftWing> Tempt: So really that argument falls on its head pretty quickly. =P
[09:05:01] <coraline> WickedWicky: If I didn't work in a company that has a huge Linux and Solaris install base, I would agree.
[09:05:06] <BatonT> coraline: well one reason i started using solaris is  for all the extra 'features'   but getting it to the state where it works as well as my linux servers just seems to take lots of work (this is before i even try playng with the solaris 'features')
[09:05:19] <Tempt> People buy Windows because ... because ...... because ...................... err, stupidity?
[09:05:24] <WickedWicky> then there is a problem with who you serve, not with the linux user in general
[09:05:34] <LeftWing> Tempt: And unfortunately that probably makes up a large part of the IT market.
[09:05:38] <BatonT> i want to like solaris... but most of the time it just makes things difficult for me (im still trying to master it)
[09:05:40] <coraline> baton: works as well?  Like what?  Your interfaces aren't plumbing to full duplex?  stuff like that?
[09:05:52] <WickedWicky> I never saw someone do or decide to do what you describe
[09:05:53] <coraline> Or, Solaris doesn't have pretty color directory listings?  Stuff like that?
[09:05:56] <jmcp> BatonT: you're in the learning curve. of course it seems more difficult
[09:06:01] * jmcp thwaps coraline
[09:06:09] <WickedWicky> morning jmcp
[09:06:12] * LeftWing joins in on the thwapping.
[09:06:13] <BatonT> coloured directory listings..  eeew :)
[09:06:18] <jmcp> hi WickedWicky
[09:06:27] <coraline> because.  like.  I don't get what's difficult.
[09:06:28] <Tempt> LeftWing: Just because you love your coloured grep
[09:06:35] <coraline> jmcp: owie.
[09:06:41] <jmcp> colour ls output is an impediment to getting stuff done
[09:06:49] <coraline> no kidding.
[09:06:56] <LeftWing> Sif!
[09:07:00] <WickedWicky> vi colors for your perlscrippies!
[09:07:03] <BatonT> jmcp: yeah i know..  but when i learnt linux  back when it was 'hard' to use  it was never as hard as solaris seems to be making it for me thats all
[09:07:04] <Tempt> Fuck no. Colour ls is great.
[09:07:09] <coraline> but some people (linux users), insist that because Solaris doesn't implement it, that their jobs are "harder"
[09:07:19] <Tempt> It makes my terminal windows look pretty.
[09:07:31] <coraline> BatonT: specific example, if you please?
[09:07:47] <LeftWing> What's an impediment is the anti-colour scorn people heap on.  Some people like colour, others don't -- why does it always invoke such vitriol?
[09:07:58] <jmcp> BatonT: so you've got history with linux. that's great, I do too. get over it
[09:08:06] <flyingparchment> man, i hate computers.
[09:08:10] <coraline> LeftWing: because it's entirely superflous.
[09:08:15] <delewis> LeftWing: probably just because 'color ls' is associated with Linux.
[09:08:15] <WickedWicky> I cant actually believe I see this OS discussion in here for the 12th time in two weeks at 9am yet again, btw
[09:08:16] <Tempt> man, i hate humans.
[09:08:21] * WickedWicky goes for a coffee
[09:08:28] <jmcp> LeftWing: it's the insistence that everybody simply must have it by default in every single linux distro I've ever used which pisses me off
[09:08:29] <Tempt> coraline: What is wrong with having a pretty desktop environment?
[09:08:35] <palowoda> man I hat paying my power bill.
[09:08:41] <Tempt> coraline: I like colours for ls, and irssi, and slrn ...
[09:08:42] <coraline> tempt: get off my lawn.
[09:08:59] * coraline wonders if she's prematurely old.
[09:08:59] <Tempt> I'm not on a vt100 anymore, and even if I was I'd have reverse video
[09:09:09] <LeftWing> jmcp: And that's fine, I'm not suggesting it be a default, I'm suggesting that people stop heaping scorn such as "it's entirely superfluous" on others who come in here.  It makes us look petty, and lets face it we certainly seem that way.
[09:09:26] <flyingparchment> LeftWing: needing colour is a sign you're not a true unix nerd!
[09:09:33] <flyingparchment> LeftWing: we musn't allow such people to use solaris
[09:09:49] <jmcp> coraline: of course you are :)
[09:09:56] <BatonT> jmcp: well thats what im trying to do (getting over it)
[09:10:03] <coraline> I think it's got to do with my opinion that colors, desktops, pretty shiny things on computers....in general...have zero sum effect on your ability to understand the innerworkings of the operating system, and/or how to add to it, subtract from it, configure, tune, and troubleshoot it.
[09:10:09] <Tempt> coraline: My desktop environment: http://mexico.purplecow.org/tmp/screen1.jpg
[09:10:29] <coraline> and thus, I find them infantile and superflous.
[09:10:33] <bobbyz> Linux distros are trying to take a chunk of the desktop market, so it only makes sense that they are all colorfull.  That seems to be what the majority of desktop users want
[09:10:46] <coraline> I don't care if your fucking screen shows your ls in color.  I want to know if you can fix the problem.
[09:11:00] <LeftWing> coraline: They're not mutually exclusive, though.
[09:11:01] <bobbyz> maybe not the majority of SA's or power users, but hey
[09:11:21] <coraline> I need to know if you understand why something might not be releasing a lock on a file, or why a packet from A isn't getting to interface B.
[09:11:49] <coraline> and I don't give a SHIT if you're using CDE, GNOME, Fluxbox, or E.
[09:12:01] <coraline> just fix the problem.
[09:12:02] <LeftWing> coraline: There is zero reason, however, why you can't be both skilled at what you do and prefer coloured output -- the colouring is extra visual feedback.
[09:12:08] <WickedWicky> coraline: and it's fine you have that opinion. What's not fine is saying how every *-user is like this or that or how their opinion on something you dont agree with is bogus. They experience a certain thing when they have or miss out on something in an operating environment, and that's all I have to say about this "linux sucks / solaris is uber and if you think something else is easier to use, go die" discussion I see here way too much
[09:12:08] <Tempt> the ability to make those determinations has nothing to do with environment choices
[09:12:11] <BatonT> coraline: mainly just configuration things, just takes a lot more work to get certain services up and running for first time, lack of consistancy, some services have a default config file with commented out stuff, others dont,  all the legacy files (yes i know the reasoning behind all the lecacy stuff).
[09:12:32] <BatonT> coraline: im getting use to it slowly..  but i'ts certainly not a 'fun' experience
[09:12:57] <flyingparchment> no-one ever complained about me using ls -F, i don't get how colours are different.  it's just another way to do it.
[09:13:04] <Tempt> in fact, seeing someone's solaris session with default environment; default prompt; no aliases etc often tells me they don't know *how* to customize their environment
[09:13:05] <coraline> leftwing: sure.  Ok.  I did say it was my opinion, not gospel.
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[09:13:25] <lloy0076> Well, my live upgrade to b70 from b69 broke spectacularly.
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[09:13:26] <coraline> tempt: why would they need to?
[09:13:47] <lloy0076> Virtually all the services didn't come up, I had a svcs -xv list a mile long and I can't work out why.
[09:13:49] <WickedWicky> lloy0076: welcome to the club
[09:13:51] <Tempt> coraline: time saving. My configs make me more productive.
[09:13:58] <lloy0076> WickedWicky: You mean it's not just me?
[09:13:59] <Tempt> coraline: My screen configuration makes me more productive
[09:14:02] <WickedWicky> nah
[09:14:11] * WickedWicky raises his hand
[09:14:16] <Tempt> coraline: My colour ls gives some eye relief on large terminals which makes me more productive.
[09:14:26] <WickedWicky> not sure if it was me or the upgrade though
[09:14:29] <coraline> tempt: hmm.  so.  um.  I'd like to see that quantified.
[09:14:30] <WickedWicky> I'm trying to reproduce it
[09:14:31] <LeftWing> The fact that my prompt is a different colour allows me to see quickly and clearly as I scroll back the delimitations between the output of one command and the next, for instance.
[09:14:49] <coraline> because I customize PuTTY to do certain things, and behave certain ways, and I have keyboard shortcuts set up to do all manner of thing.
[09:15:10] <lloy0076> I just did a lucreate and then an luupgrade.
[09:15:11] <palowoda> Putty isn't even part of opensolaris.
[09:15:15] <coraline> and that has nothing to do with my preferences for the servers that I'm working on or what desktop they use.
[09:15:21] <lloy0076> (isn't Putty a windows program?)
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[09:15:23] <jmcp> lloy0076: pipe the output through head -20
[09:16:05] <coraline> my ability to customize my experience with a terminal program doesn't indicate one iota of anything about my ability to troubleshoot a VCS cluster on Solaris.
[09:16:14] <coraline> they are not inclusive of one another.
[09:16:19] <WickedWicky> lloy0076: you never used BFU to update, did you? luupgrade wont work once you've done a BFU
[09:16:24] <lloy0076> jmcp: Yeah, I could see the output and then I came up with: I wonder which one of those things stopped first.
[09:16:37] <jmcp> the first one which is listed there should be the one that you attack first
[09:16:42] <lloy0076> WickedWicky: Nopers, only used solb69 ISOs and the solb70 ISOs.
[09:16:55] <lloy0076> jmcp: That would be the power management one.
[09:17:06] <lloy0076> jmcp: It concluded my power management was misconfigured :P
[09:17:41] <jmcp> lloy0076: can you disable it?
[09:18:00] <lloy0076> jmcp: Most likely.
[09:21:08] <lloy0076> Off I go again for another disaster!
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[09:23:58] <Tempt> coraline: Oh, and troubleshooting VCS on Solaris? How unexciting.
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[09:24:25] <Tempt> You want real fun, troubleshoot VVR problems.
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[09:35:56] <jmcp> lloy0076: what news from the front?
[09:37:26] <lloy0076> jmcp: http://www.dslloyd.info/solaris/'
[09:37:29] <lloy0076> errk
[09:37:30] <lloy0076> http://www.dslloyd.info/solaris/\
[09:37:43] <lloy0076> Err, remove the extra bits after the last / - I've got fat fingers
[09:38:18] <WickedWicky> I think someone made a booboo when creating the SXCE CD isos or grub menus of b70 by the way
[09:38:49] <lloy0076> It appears to be complaining that the configuration is wrong.
[09:38:52] <WickedWicky> grub menuu shows "Solaris Express Developer Edition", "Solaris Express",
[09:39:05] <lloy0076> "rpcbind" complains about not being able to "chdir" and something about not being about to find some "context"
[09:39:51] <lloy0076> I'm tempted to do a fresh install of b70 onto one of my live upgrade slices and see if b70 itself is somehow dead.
[09:40:30] <jmcp> lloy0076: what about svc:/system/power:default ? what's in that error log?
[09:40:43] <jmcp> WickedWicky: one is the DE installer, the other is the "normal" installer
[09:41:08] <lloy0076> jmcp: It complained that it was misconfigured and didn't say much else.
[09:41:24] <lloy0076> jmcp: Aug 19 16:55:50 lothlorien svc.startd[7]: [ID 652011 daemon.warning] svc:/system/power:default: Method "/lib/svc/method/svc-power start" failed with exit status 96.
[09:41:59] <lloy0076> heh
[09:42:24] <jmcp> that's all that's in /etc/svc/volatile/system-power:default.log ?
[09:42:59] *** mbalmer_away is now known as mbalmer
[09:43:06] <lloy0076> jmcp: I disabled it during that boot anyway.
[09:44:08] <jmcp> lloy0076: what is in that actual logfile?
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[09:45:34] <WickedWicky> jmcp: why even include the DE install when it tells you it can only be done via DVD, not CD media? ;-)
[09:45:35] <lloy0076> Currently, it says it's disabled.
[09:45:40] <lloy0076> But I'm running under b69 atm.
[09:45:55] <jmcp> WickedWicky: good question
[09:46:22] <WickedWicky> it's the default option for the CD version even
[09:46:27] <jmcp> lloy0076: would you care to actually answer the question please?
[09:47:06] <mbalmer> it might be a FAQ or even be OT, but I am a bit confused by the different OS versions.  Which one is right to start hacking on the OS? (x86)
[09:47:21] <lloy0076> [ Aug 19 17:02:54 Disabled. ]
[09:47:42] <lloy0076> (but did you want me to go back into the broken environment and get what it says there?)
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[09:48:40] <jmcp> lloy0076: that might help
[09:49:01] <jmcp> mbalmer: http://whacked.net/what_is_opensolaris
[09:49:19] <lloy0076> Indeed, I'm going to have to reboot again - I think I still have network in the broken environment so I'll come back from there.
[09:49:24] <jmcp> ok
[09:49:55] <jmcp> mbalmer: all of them are ok for hacking on, but perhaps if you mention what sort of hacking you want to do we could guide you a bit better
[09:51:44] <mbalmer> jmcp, thanks for the link.  I am mostly interested in kernel stuff (device drivers) and X11.
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[09:52:24] <jmcp> src.opensolaris.org, look at the ON consolidation for most driver stuff
[09:53:14] <mbalmer> thx
[09:53:40] <jmcp> X isn't on src.opensolaris.org, but I think you can get that from xorg.org, or wherever Xorg is hosted
[09:53:50] <moazamraja> hrm, has anyone been able to replay the audio from the Sun/IBM announcement?
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[09:59:32] <mbalmer> jmcp, I've got X.org, not problem there.  I am familiar with that, but OpenSolaris in this form is somewhat new to me...
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[10:00:48] <jmcp> mbalmer: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/onnv/devref_toc
[10:00:57] <jmcp> read through that and all the links, especially the glossary
[10:01:18] <boyd> There will be a quiz later.
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[10:07:47] <lloy0076> jmcp: http://www.dslloyd.info/solaris/volatile/etc/svc/volatile/system-power:default.log
[10:08:50] <lloy0076> (incidentally, I've put up everything under /etc/svc/volatile and /var/svc/log which can be found from http://www.dslloyd.info/solaris/)
[10:08:58] <jmcp> lloy0076: that's a very strange error to see
[10:10:00] <lloy0076> Might it be possible that "blastwave" might be confusing things...
[10:10:39] <lloy0076> ...I have a sneaking suspicion I put blastwave onto SLICE1 _after_ I did the lucreate to make SLICE6.
[10:11:07] <jmcp> I have no idea
[10:11:17] * jmcp is having a clueless day
[10:11:22] <lloy0076> Heh
[10:11:23] * dlg too
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[10:11:24] <lloy0076> Fair enough.
[10:11:36] <lloy0076> I think I may: 1. Recreate the environment and upgrade it again.
[10:12:16] <jmcp> sounds like a good plan to me
[10:12:30] * jmcp waits for yet another nightly build to finish
[10:13:47] <lloy0076> It does seem related to some missing directory.
[10:14:11] <jmcp> do you have a /lib/svc/method directory ?
[10:14:20] <lloy0076> I _wish_ the error messages said something like "We couldn't change into THIS directory" as opposed to "We couldn't change directory but we're not going to tell you which one :P".
[10:14:44] <jmcp> lloy0076: but that would make things too easy :)
[10:15:29] <lloy0076> jmcp: Yeppers, appears to be a "lib/svc/method" in that environment.
[10:15:56] <lloy0076> jmcp: It's just so annoying; it's almost like a "it broke, we know why and we're not going to tell you" message.
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[10:40:14] <sponix> wow chatzilla isn't that bad
[10:40:41] <Fish> hello
[10:43:33] <dwc-> seen nrubsig
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[10:43:43] <Tempt> !seen nrubsig
[10:43:46] <Drone> nrubsig (nrubsig!n=gisburn at dslb-084-058-237-057 dot pools.arcor-ip.net) was last seen in #opensolaris on Sun 19 Aug 2007 00:44 GMT, saying 'night'.
[10:43:49] <Tempt> dwc-: It likes a bang.
[10:43:58] <dwc-> yea, I can't type
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[10:57:15] <mbalmer> of to the next adventure: adding opensolaris to my laptop ;)
[10:57:42] <Lokemobile> What kind of laptop?
[10:57:53] <Lokemobile> We've has mixed reslts
[10:58:20] <mbalmer> I have several to try with, will start with a Lenovo  3000 V100
[10:58:42] <Lokemobile> Ok. Those might work
[10:59:32] <mbalmer> need to shrink some other os first to make room.
[10:59:49] <dlg> mbalmer: wtf
[10:59:50] <dlg> you sellout
[11:00:03] <mbalmer> hi david.
[11:00:06] <dlg> ::)
[11:00:07] <dlg> sup
[11:00:10] <Lokemobile> Use a different laptop then :-)
[11:00:28] <mbalmer> digging into this a bit.
[11:00:52] <Lokemobile> Is he a sellout for installing solaris?
[11:01:06] <mbalmer> dlg thinks so ;)
[11:01:10] <dlg> Lokemobile: yes, but you have to understand the context
[11:01:26] <Lokemobile> Ok, I don't
[11:01:37] <WickedWicky> holy hell!
[11:01:44] <dlg> mbalmer: what are you up to?
[11:01:52] * WickedWicky is seeing the SXCE70 installer
[11:02:00] <WickedWicky> talk about flashy
[11:02:33] <WickedWicky> in a positive way
[11:02:34] <mbalmer> dlg, nothin concrete at the moment, but looking at this to get some ideas, maybe to have a second platform for X related stuff.
[11:02:36] <WickedWicky> I am all for flashy
[11:02:45] * dlg nod
[11:02:46] <mbalmer> and sth for machines where I need >4 GB RAM.
[11:02:55] <dlg> go beat toby
[11:03:30] <mbalmer> I actually have one machine where I need that, running out of space at every end (processes that eat 900 MB each and such).
[11:03:47] <Lokemobile> I've been desperately seeking a laptop that handles more than 4GB
[11:04:03] <Lokemobile> Are there any? (apart from the bullfrog)
[11:04:06] <mbalmer> I am seeking an OS that handles more than 4 GB...
[11:04:23] <sponix> how do I get rid of that stupid task grouping in JDS/gnome ?
[11:05:00] <Lokemobile> Mbalmer, that would be solaris...
[11:05:20] <sponix> found it...
[11:05:23] <mbalmer> Lokemobile, one of the reasone I am taking a look ;)
[11:05:43] <mbalmer> dlg, well that "sellout" label pretty much applies to you, too ;P
[11:05:58] <dlg> mbalmer: yeah
[11:06:02] <dlg> slave to the wage
[11:06:23] <mbalmer> actually it was matthieu who pointed to me to this.  I stopped using solaris at 5.6...
[11:07:54] <Lokemobile> What have you been using since?
[11:08:13] <mbalmer> BSD
[11:08:14] <g4lt-mordant> mbalmer, so do tell me, what was your RAM in the 2.6 machine?
[11:08:50] <mbalmer> no idea, to long ago ;)
[11:09:15] * g4lt-mordant notes that the sun4m could technically address 4G of RAM
[11:11:56] <boyd> mbalmer: Current Sun servers max out at 2TB RAM. Solaris will sun on them. http://www.sun.com/servers/highend/m9000/specs.xml
[11:12:47] <mbalmer> that's not my league ;-)
[11:13:25] <quasi> boyd: only 2TB, darn - will have to look elsewhere for something to run the java bits then ;)
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[11:13:42] <Lokemobile> We only have one of those sp far :-)
[11:14:05] <Lokemobile> But we're havily moving towards the opteron sun's
[11:14:10] <bobbyz> how much do those m9000 cost anyway?
[11:14:29] <jpdrawneek> its in the don't ask catagory
[11:14:53] <mbalmer> I have a E250 to trade in...
[11:15:07] <Lokemobile> Click on buy now on the webpage. It should say
[11:15:28] <quasi> From $511,385 (US)
[11:15:35] <bobbyz> that's less than I was expecting  :)
[11:15:47] <Lokemobile> I can't be bothered to look from the phone (although my nokia has the world's best mobile broswer :-) )
[11:15:48] <quasi> but that must be the very, very low end m9000
[11:15:51] <jpdrawneek> for the the box
[11:16:03] <jpdrawneek> then you got the boards etc....
[11:16:18] <Tempt> That'll include enough boards etc to have a working system
[11:16:51] <jpdrawneek> not sure
[11:17:08] <Lokemobile> Sun always announces minimum spec
[11:17:13] <Lokemobile> Not barebones
[11:17:19] <WickedWicky> jmcp, are you around?
[11:17:42] <WickedWicky> or someone else who's familiar with the SXCE70 installer
[11:17:47] <Tempt> mbalmer: So,, going to buy yourself a T2000 perhaps?
[11:17:48] <bobbyz> if only I were one of the hyper-wealthy  :)
[11:17:59] <WickedWicky> I can define partition types but where do I layout the actual partitions?
[11:18:07] <boyd> Yes, that will get you 1 board. Minimal RAM... *maybe* a disk
[11:18:31] <Tempt> If you pay list on an m9000 you should consider becoming a professional full-time st00ge
[11:18:39] <jpdrawneek> ya
[11:18:40] <boyd> If I were one of the hyper-wealthy I'd be waiting for Rock I think
[11:18:54] <Tempt> What do you think they'll open at?
[11:19:13] <bobbyz> is that going to be the new big-boy T2 box?
[11:19:18] <jpdrawneek> all 20/25k i have seen it been backplate price then boards and so on
[11:19:45] <Tempt> Rock is the next non-coolthreads CPU,  if it arrives
[11:19:53] <bobbyz> ohhh
[11:19:56] <jpdrawneek> praying for a rock ws
[11:19:57] <Tempt> less cores, faster cores.
[11:20:04] <bobbyz> cool
[11:20:10] <Tempt> rock retrofit for my 880. gimmeh!
[11:20:19] <jpdrawneek> no chance
[11:20:24] <Tempt> No shit.
[11:20:35] <Tempt> boyd: CAN HAS ROCK WORKSTATION?
[11:21:39] <boyd>  /ignore Tempt's lolcat s**t
[11:21:39] <g4lt-mordant> jpdrawneek, you take a rock ws, I'll take a coolthreads PDA ;P
[11:21:39] <Lokemobile> You can smoke some rock :-)
[11:21:39] <boyd> I want a USIV+ watch
[11:21:39] <jpdrawneek> well there was teh rumour of a baby rock
[11:21:39] <Tempt> beat me to it
[11:21:42] <quasi> Tempt: you can throw rocks at your workstation, but that's probably as close as you'll get
[11:21:53] <boyd> "pebble"?
[11:21:56] <jpdrawneek> ya
[11:22:03] <jpdrawneek> 4 core effort
[11:22:23] <Tempt> quasi: There will need to be a move to something more exciting than IIIi for workstations soon
[11:22:35] * Tempt can't believe the Ultra-45 is still on IIIi
[11:22:37] <g4lt-mordant> boyd, problem, the whole point of coolthreads is minimizing wattage,m hence a coolthreads  pda is doable, a USIV watch would burn your wrist, assuming you could power it
[11:22:46] <jpdrawneek> ya they canned the IIIi+
[11:22:51] <boyd> I think there's still a bit of the coolthreads pedigree in Rock, but it's more targeted at the high-end
[11:23:00] <Tempt> Ultra-45 should be a IV+ machine
[11:23:03] <jpdrawneek> there doing that
[11:23:13] <Lokemobile> Well, opterson for workstations make fore sense
[11:23:16] <Lokemobile> more
[11:23:17] <boyd> g4lt-mordant: Wow, I never thought about that in my careful system architecture
[11:23:29] <g4lt-mordant> Lokemobile, DIAF
[11:23:36] <g4lt-mordant> boyd, I did ;P
[11:23:41] <boyd> Is "opterson" the next generation?
[11:23:54] <boyd> g4lt-mordant: That means you're more of a geek than me :)
[11:24:25] <g4lt-mordant> bobbyz, now that is saying something ;P
[11:24:30] <g4lt-mordant> boyd, ^^^^^^
[11:24:37] <bobbyz> :)
[11:25:16] <quasi> Tempt: as if the u-45 isn't expensive enough already - with IV+ it'd probably cost 4 times as much
[11:25:17] <boyd> :)
[11:25:30] <Tempt> meh
[11:25:38] <boyd> ... and still be lacking the the ticker...
[11:25:43] <g4lt-mordant> quasi, as long as Sun is willing to trade m 1:1 for a U60, I'm game ;P
[11:25:47] <boyd> s/the the/in the/
[11:25:48] <Tempt> Workstations should have a subsidy perhaps
[11:25:56] <boyd> Hehe
[11:26:14] <quasi> g4lt-mordant: they trade u60 1:1 for u45?
[11:26:17] <g4lt-mordant> Tempt, actually, I'd be satisfied with a decent trade-up
[11:26:19] <boyd> Don't get me wrong, the IO on the u45 rocks
[11:26:26] <jpdrawneek> really?
[11:26:31] <g4lt-mordant> quasi, I *bleep*ing wish!
[11:26:33] <boyd> quasi: Yeah, you get the box for free
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[11:26:41] <boyd> ... the cardboard box
[11:27:03] <quasi> boyd: still good value on an U60
[11:27:04] <g4lt-mordant> !seen g4lt-u60
[11:27:05] <Drone> g4lt-U60 (g4lt-U60!n=galt@pdpc/supporter/basic/g4lt) was last seen in #opensolaris on Wed 08 Aug 2007 00:19 GMT, saying 'ouch'.
[11:27:09] <boyd> quasi: Ha!
[11:27:41] <g4lt-mordant> so th answer is as of atwo weks ago, I stil have the U60 and want the U45, so no
[11:28:01] * dlg want a v445
[11:28:17] <jpdrawneek> or get a v440 on the cheap?
[11:28:37] * dlg need pci-e
[11:28:45] <jpdrawneek> k - what for?
[11:28:56] <dlg> plugging pci-e gear into
[11:28:57] <quasi> dlg: I've got two 445s to set up next week
[11:29:10] <jpdrawneek> what pci-e gear?
[11:29:21] <dlg> mostly nics
[11:29:30] <jpdrawneek> k
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[11:34:55] <sponix> boyd: anything keeping me from setting roots homedir to /root/ instead of / ?
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[11:35:13] <Tempt> Not sure about the 445
[11:35:17] <Tempt> rather have a 490
[11:35:18] <boyd> sponix: Only the wrath of the diehards
[11:35:35] * boyd goes to put the kids to bed
[11:35:57] <sponix> boyd: well they will send their wrath for my use of bash before anything else :P
[11:36:00] <quasi> Tempt: sure, so would I - but the 445 is a fair bit cheaper
[11:36:06] <Tempt> read them bedtime stories about sparcv9 architecture
[11:36:12] <jpdrawneek> yay
[11:36:23] <Tempt> 490s are nice.
[11:36:31] <Tempt> Not as nice as their big brother but still alright.
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[11:37:00] <quasi> Tempt: till the point where you have to pay for it
[11:37:22] <Tempt> aah, you see, I'm pragmatic and employ used equipment at home
[11:37:34] <jpdrawneek> yay for ebay
[11:38:01] <jpdrawneek> only got v480 in the uk :(
[11:38:31] <quasi> 490 low end is twice as expensive as v445
[11:39:09] <Tempt> and a used daktari loaded up is going to outperform a lowend 490
[11:39:12] <quasi> but ok - I'd much prefer IV+ over III as well
[11:39:28] <Tempt> But this comes down to the me-want me-want thing
[11:39:52] <Tempt> If Sun were giving 99% discounts tomorrow I'd get myself an 890 with the works
[11:39:57] <Tempt> but they won't be, so I won't.
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[11:41:19] * g4lt-mordant puts sponix on the "diehards die hard" list
[11:41:43] <bobbyz> how cheap have you guys seen used 445s and 490s going for?
[11:41:48] <Tempt> used?
[11:41:53] <quasi> 890 is almost the same price as 490
[11:41:57] <bobbyz> yeah
[11:41:58] <Tempt> They aren't old enough to be on the second hand market
[11:42:09] <bobbyz> I suppose not
[11:42:16] <Tempt> Most places lease for two or three years
[11:42:22] <quasi> 880 would be much easier
[11:42:29] <moazamraja> Tempt: btw, i haven't forgotten about the zone, I've just been busy. will reply/get to it early this week
[11:42:35] <Tempt> 880s are cheap and cheerful.
[11:42:47] <moazamraja> u folks don't actually run 880s at HOME, do u?
[11:42:52] <Tempt> moazamraja: Oh, cheers. Keep me in the loop. I haven't racked my new host yet so I'm not ready to provide zones.
[11:42:53] <bobbyz> man I'd quadruple my power bill with an 880
[11:42:54] <moazamraja> the amount of electricity and noise...wow...
[11:42:58] <jpdrawneek> me v440 1500-2000, v480 750-2000, v880 2000-3000 about in the uk
[11:43:18] <Doc> just buy an ultra-2
[11:43:18] <Tempt> SunOS taco 5.10 Generic_118833-36 sun4u sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-880
[11:43:51] <Doc> SunOS milliways 5.10 Generic_118833-33 sun4u sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-35K
[11:43:53] <bobbyz> man if 880s go for 2000-3000 though, I'd almost be tempted
[11:44:02] <Tempt> heh.
[11:44:11] <Tempt> 880s go for under $AU1500 here
[11:44:18] <bobbyz> you're kidding!
[11:44:28] <Doc> empty, or with boards?
[11:44:29] <Tempt> Nobody wants to buy them
[11:44:41] <Doc> probably 750mhz at best for that price
[11:44:48] <Tempt> Doc: With boards these days. I bought mine for 1200 sans boards, now they're going for under that with boards.
[11:44:51] <bobbyz> I wonder how much international shipping is for one of those beats  ;)
[11:44:54] <bobbyz> beasts
[11:45:02] <WickedWicky> a lot, taking the weight
[11:45:04] <quasi> bobbyz: too much
[11:45:08] <Tempt> The consumer market is scared of machines that weight a hundred kilos
[11:45:13] <Tempt> the business market doesn't buy ebay machines
[11:45:14] <WickedWicky> morning quasi, doc
[11:45:15] <Doc> wow...  4-way 750Mhz on ebay for $999 buy it now
[11:45:24] <Tempt> Doc: We're hoping boyd buys it!
[11:45:26] <quasi> WickedWicky: afternoon - almost ;)
[11:45:34] <WickedWicky> quasi: true :D
[11:45:45] <Doc> interesting.. being sold by someone at st peters
[11:45:50] <Tempt> Doc: If it was local I'd buy it for spare parts.
[11:45:59] <Doc> guess where the sun trade-in warehouse is...
[11:46:09] <quasi> ;)
[11:46:21] <Doc> no disks in it tho
[11:46:41] <quasi> boot net
[11:46:56] <LeftWing> heh, diskless 880.
[11:47:06] <Tempt> Heh.
[11:47:11] <Tempt> It has the expansion backplane as well
[11:47:16] <Tempt> Sun still charge around $10k for that
[11:47:34] <Doc> cool.. forget the V880, there's a F4800 4x750mhz going for $800 buy it now
[11:47:35] <Tempt> Find someone who wants to buy an upgrade for their 890, sell them the part and pocket the change to buy spindles for the machine
[11:47:52] <Tempt> Doc: Check the condition on that 4800 though - looks like it's been dropped
[11:48:59] <Doc> tempt: yah..  wouldnt take me much to find out the history :)
[11:49:19] <Tempt> Besides, 750s ...
[11:49:24] <Tempt> It'd be hard to get new uniboards
[11:49:34] <Tempt> A lot easier to get boards for the 880
[11:49:45] <Tempt> If it hadn't been smashed and it had 1.2s I'd consider it.
[11:49:54] <bobbyz> I need to move to Australia
[11:50:15] <LeftWing> heh'
[11:50:18] <Tempt> Move to Australia to buy Sun hardware.
[11:50:25] <Tempt> LeftWing: Perhaps you need a 4800?
[11:50:28] <Doc> tempt: no shortage of boards for a 4800 in the north sydney sun office storeroom :)
[11:50:29] <jpdrawneek> uk uni boards do appear but at about 3000
[11:50:34] <LeftWing> Tempt: I certainly do not. ;P
[11:50:51] <Tempt> Someone offered me a 6800 for $4500 the other day
[11:51:16] <Doc> i could do with the L9/DLT8k i was looking at earlier tho
[11:51:28] <bobbyz> my brother just took his wife to Australia for their honeymoon and he talks about the trip non-stop.  Sounds like a great place to live.  Cheap Sun hardware would just be an amazing bonus  :)
[11:51:29] <Tempt> ooh, I need a new tape library
[11:51:42] <Doc> $299 buy it now
[11:51:45] <Tempt> bobbyz: Yeah, and people leave here for the UK. Grass is always greener
[11:51:58] <bobbyz> true
[11:52:12] <jpdrawneek> why????
[11:52:30] <jpdrawneek> its the UK!
[11:52:33] <Tempt> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SURESTORE-DLT-8000-HVDS-RACK-2-20-C7202RC_W0QQitemZ190140655133QQihZ009QQcategoryZ51090QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[11:52:34] <Doc> yah.. just what we need - more bloody poms
[11:52:40] <Tempt> hah, that's my tape library
[11:52:43] <boyd> bobbyz: Sun HW cheap. Internet expensive
[11:53:01] <WickedWicky> why would anyone trade AU for UK?
[11:53:02] <jpdrawneek> uk - everything is expensive
[11:53:07] <bobbyz> how bad?  I feel like my current internet charges are pretty steep
[11:53:12] <WickedWicky> Australia has cuter girls, better summers
[11:53:14] <LeftWing> boyd: I think I'd rather better+cheaper Internet to be honest.
[11:53:16] <bobbyz> 53USD/month
[11:53:19] <Tempt> Doc: Item ID for the L9?
[11:53:24] <Doc> just search for L9
[11:53:38] <WickedWicky> better beer prolly
[11:54:02] <jpdrawneek> yes because the uk gets all the crap aus beer
[11:54:03] <Tempt> bargain
[11:54:05] <Doc> my full backups take 5-6 tapes, so an L9 would be nice
[11:54:17] <richlowe> comparing fosters to crap is an insult to crap.
[11:54:26] <Tempt> I want to move to LTO soon
[11:54:34] <Doc> like anyone in australia drinks fosters
[11:54:45] <richlowe> Doc: hence jpdrawneek's point.
[11:54:51] <Doc> tempt: if i could get free LTO tapes...
[11:55:01] <bobbyz> LTO is great
[11:55:08] <Tempt> Doc: I've got some tapes
[11:55:13] <Tempt> Doc: I just need a drive!
[11:55:22] <Doc> i've got like 30 DLT-IV tapes
[11:55:27] <Tempt> aah
[11:55:33] <bobbyz> Tempt: I've got a busted internal half-high you can have  :)
[11:55:42] <Tempt> oh, a broken tape drive
[11:55:49] <Tempt> just what I always wanted.
[11:55:50] <LeftWing> I've got access to vaults full of DLT-IV's, potentially.
[11:55:53] <bobbyz> I dunno, some people can fix those things
[11:55:54] <Doc>  /dev/rmt/0hbn    dlt7000       BKP005       writing at 4864 KB/s, 648 MB
[11:55:58] <mbalmer> got an axternal LTO-2, these have decent capacity
[11:56:00] <Doc> yay to dlt8k! :)
[11:56:03] <mbalmer> and fast
[11:56:17] <Tempt> I've got two DLT8000s in my library and two in flexipacks
[11:56:27] <Tempt> Oh, hang on, the flexipack drives a DLT7000
[11:56:34] <Doc> it's 145Gb into the backup so far - and it's been running for almost 24 hours
[11:56:43] <Tempt> That's the problem with DLT
[11:56:46] <Tempt> so very slow
[11:56:47] <Doc> although most of that time was waiting for me to put in a new tape
[11:56:48] <Tempt> slooooow
[11:57:02] <Tempt> LTO is substantially faster.
[11:57:09] <Tempt> LTO3 is really fast
[11:57:21] <Tempt> LTO4 is apparently even faster, but I've never used them
[11:58:17] <bobbyz> god, I didn't know lot4 existed
[11:58:22] <bobbyz> err lto4.
[12:00:01] <quasi> pretty new as well
[12:00:17] <CIA-21> yy150190: 6552853 system panics in e1000g_alloc_dvma_buffer during hotplug testing
[12:00:26] <quasi> and double the capacity of lto3
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[12:00:44] <bobbyz> I can only imagine how fast lto4 drives are.  Even my lto1 writes at 30MB/s
[12:01:27] <Tempt> gimmeh LTO!
[12:02:06] <Tempt> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HP-Ultrium-100-200GB-LTO-Drive-C7377-13011-IBM-EXT-CASE_W0QQitemZ260148451543QQihZ016QQcategoryZ3756QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[12:02:19] <bobbyz> you can get them fairly cheap on ebay.  The one I'm using is external and I got it for $179
[12:02:36] <Tempt> oooh
[12:02:37] <Tempt> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SUN-LTO-1-4TB-LIBRARY-2xUltrium-1-Drives-4x5-Magazine_W0QQitemZ270155366863QQihZ017QQcategoryZ3756QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[12:02:42] <Tempt> yummeh
[12:03:21] <bobbyz> oh well...to bed.
[12:03:26] *** bobbyz is now known as bobbyz_zzz
[12:04:12] <WickedWicky> hey... who tried SXCE 70 yesterday and got this error about / not being within the first 1023 cylinders?
[12:04:24] <Doc> what type of machine, and how big was root ?
[12:04:32] <WickedWicky> I get the same error during SXCE 70 installation, same layout that worked in 68 and 69
[12:05:20] <quasi> http://www.sun.com/storagetek/tape_storage/tape_drives/lto/specs.xml - 120M/sec for lto4
[12:06:09] <WickedWicky> Doc: Athlon 2400XP+ with 1x SATA 400GB
[12:06:10] <Tempt> quasi: CAN HAS?
[12:06:11] <WickedWicky> root is 10GB
[12:06:23] <WickedWicky> (slice 0)
[12:06:45] <quasi> Tempt: no
[12:07:18] * quasi wanders off to brew some coffee
[12:07:30] <WickedWicky> make me one too
[12:07:37] <Tempt> and me
[12:07:46] <Tempt> If I can't have an LTO4 I might as well have a coffee
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[12:19:06] <WickedWicky> I have no idea what the installer is doing but it tells me the root partition is 660 cylinders then fails with saying the partition isnt within the first 1024 cylinders
[12:19:37] <WickedWicky> what's even more funny is that when you do the Developer edition install you dont even get the chance to layout file systems but it does install the software
[12:21:32] <WickedWicky> mja, lunch time
[12:22:11] <WickedWicky> hey! miracle, tempt isnt telling me how this is typical x86 crap behavior and how i should buy a real system ;-)
[12:22:24] <Tempt> Well, you've already learnt that.
[12:22:27] <WickedWicky> yes.
[12:22:40] <Tempt> So we don't need to rub your poor choices in. I mean, you obviously feel frustrated enough as it is.
[12:23:05] <Tempt> Just thump the machine and move on ;)
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[12:24:27] <mbalmer> solaris root fs has to reside in the first 1024 cylinder of a disk on x86?
[12:24:44] <Tempt> I thought all those grubs were meant to fix that problem.
[12:25:34] <mbalmer> guess I gonna have a god lot of fun this this beast runs on my laptop, then...
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[12:33:01] <MooingLemur> can opensolaris be set to take the bios clock as if it were UTC rather than local time?
[12:45:12] <MooingLemur> answered my own question.. /etc/rtc_config: zone_lag=0
[12:45:47] <flyingparchment> not exactly an opensolaris question, but i have a strange problem with an Audigy sound card: it produces (sometimes, not others) a very loud crackling/static noise that makes it basically unusable.  what might cause that?
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[12:47:08] <jpdrawneek> cables?
[12:48:03] <jpdrawneek> if you have not touched it and its started to go weird could be the cables/speakers etc...
[12:49:05] <jpdrawneek> also is there anything hot near the card in the case?  That sometimes causes problems - ie its next to a nvidia ultra
[12:49:05] <flyingparchment> i only bought it last week.  it was fine for a day or two, then it did this.
[12:49:12] <flyingparchment> could be a faulty card, but i'm hoping it's not :)
[12:49:20] <jpdrawneek> could be
[12:49:27] <flyingparchment> (because if i take it back, i won't be able to get another)
[12:49:39] <jpdrawneek> where you buy it from?
[12:49:48] <flyingparchment> local computer shop
[12:49:55] <Tempt> And they have no warranty?
[12:50:06] <jpdrawneek> they should have a warrenty
[12:50:08] <flyingparchment> there is a warranty, but these cards aren't made anymore, afaik.
[12:50:13] <Pietro_S> hmm, part of mkfile for SunOS - set MKDIR=gmkdir, but I don't have such binary at all (not in usr/sfw, /usr/gnu ...). Is it anachronism? Should I change it to mkdir or are there differences?
[12:50:14] <flyingparchment> so i'll just get a refund, but i want the card.
[12:50:21] <Tempt> get the refund and buy one on ebay
[12:50:27] <Tempt> gmkdir
[12:50:28] <jpdrawneek> best bet
[12:50:29] <flyingparchment> i only have cash :)
[12:50:31] <Tempt> christ
[12:50:32] <Tempt> GNU mkdir
[12:50:33] <flyingparchment> oh well
[12:50:37] <Tempt> what is the world coming to?
[12:50:40] <flyingparchment> Tempt: GNU true!
[12:50:43] <flyingparchment> Tempt: (srsly.)
[12:51:04] <jpdrawneek> only time a seen your problem is bad cables - or cooked card
[12:51:15] <Tempt> mkdir --fancy-gnu-option --make-directory --oh-really-make-that-directory --please --gimmehgimmeh --rms-for-emperor
[12:51:16] <flyingparchment> jpdrawneek: i put it at the other end of the case than the graphics card - which isn't very hot anyway (old GF2)
[12:51:29] <flyingparchment> only thing i have left to try is changing the PSU
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[12:51:36] <jpdrawneek> ?
[12:51:49] <Tempt> most likely a bad cable
[12:51:52] <Tempt> just thump it
[12:52:02] <Tempt> Why the Creative card anyway?
[12:52:05] <flyingparchment> tried two cables :)
[12:52:10] <jpdrawneek> flyingparchment: what drivers you using?
[12:52:26] <jpdrawneek> flyingparchment: different speaker?
[12:52:44] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: name another ok sound card?
[12:52:45] <flyingparchment> Tempt: because it does about what i want and was cheap (OEM, old.. got it for probably not much more than second hand price)
[12:52:48] <g4lt-mordant> right, because GNU took a peerfectly useful shellscript that basically said exit 1 and turned it into a huge program
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[12:52:55] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: There are lots.
[12:53:05] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: name them!
[12:53:19] <g4lt-mordant> the major extent of /bin/true before GNU got ahold of it was the copyright notice
[12:53:19] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: Terratec? I've had good luck with my EWS88MT.
[12:53:20] <flyingparchment> jpdrawneek: OSS
[12:53:37] <flyingparchment> i tried two cables, one to a hifi and with headphones connected directly, no change
[12:53:52] <Tempt> To be honest, I just use a USB -> optical and an external DAC
[12:53:59] <jpdrawneek> flyingparchment: got a mate with another box you could try it in?
[12:54:12] <jpdrawneek> tempt: never seen usb sound work :(
[12:54:20] <flyingparchment> i have a spare system in the front room i can try with a linux livecd or something, i guess
[12:54:30] <Tempt> Behringer UCA works on my Blade-1000
[12:54:43] <Tempt> Cost $AU50
[12:54:44] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: done four years in student radio - used a hell of a lot of sound cards
[12:55:06] <Tempt> I'm only using it to play mp3s.
[12:55:16] <Tempt> Not recording or anything flash like that.
[12:55:47] * dlg want a blade
[12:56:06] <flyingparchment> jpdrawneek: i thought creative was frowned upon for anything other than home theatre/games - m-audio seems popular for home/small studio stuff..
[12:56:08] <jpdrawneek> flyingparchment: if that still has a problem, your card is cooked
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[12:56:20] <Tempt> m-audio is nice
[12:56:22] <jpdrawneek> flyingparchment: there the best of the cheap
[12:57:00] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: m-audio is nice, but what do you expect for 50+ card
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[12:57:45] <jpdrawneek> m-audio 50 pound card has the same features as a 10 pound creative labs card
[12:57:53] <jpdrawneek> but built like a tank
[12:57:58] <Tempt> "features"
[12:58:08] <Tempt> If you're not recording, what "features" do you want?
[12:58:17] <jpdrawneek> plugs
[12:58:30] <jpdrawneek> surround sound?
[12:58:59] <Tempt> Optical out
[12:59:07] <Tempt> Straight to your amp. That covers the surround sound
[12:59:12] <Tempt> And also covers the 'plugs' side
[12:59:20] <Tempt> Unless you want a couple of midi ports on the side
[12:59:41] <jpdrawneek> m-audio audio don't have optical out till it gets expencive
[12:59:53] <Tempt> If you don't care about surround sound, you still only need a digital feed into your DAC of choice which is guaranteed not to have the noise and crud from inside a peecee case
[13:00:10] <Tempt> Then buy the Behringer cheapo
[13:00:22] <jpdrawneek> what the drivers like?
[13:00:25] <Tempt> UCA202 I think
[13:00:29] <jpdrawneek> only ever hear bad things
[13:00:29] <Tempt> There are no drivers for Solaris
[13:00:34] <Tempt> It is standard USB audio profile
[13:00:40] <jpdrawneek> nice
[13:00:47] <Tempt> There are some low latency ASIO drivers for Windows if you need them.
[13:01:02] <Tempt> I mean, it's a classic Behringer: Plastic case, gets the job done, wouldn't want to take it on stage.
[13:01:24] <jpdrawneek> or buy a very large box of them
[13:01:35] <jpdrawneek> which you can as it behringer
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[13:01:46] <Tempt> Just like the Behinger rack mix I have in the loungeroom to handle sound from my laptop, playstation, etc
[13:02:27] <dlg> arent they a cheap knockoff of mackie?
[13:02:42] <Tempt> For $AU150 I got a 1RU mixer with 16 inputs. Wouldn't try to use one in a studio, but it covers my needs
[13:02:56] <Tempt> dlg: Not really anymore. They're a cheap knockoff of the entire industry, but not mackie specific.
[13:03:12] * dlg hasnt kept up on that stuff for years
[13:03:13] <Tempt> I like Mackie.
[13:04:02] <coffman> well, behringer is not that bad. good quality germman products
[13:04:05] * dlg too
[13:04:18] * dlg better not look at audio again
[13:04:22] * dlg already poor
[13:04:31] <jpdrawneek> i seen way to much behringer go pop
[13:05:08] <coffman> just buy two devices, still so much cheaper :P
[13:05:18] <jpdrawneek> we know
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[13:05:26] <jpdrawneek> thats what we did
[13:07:25] <Tempt> coffman: You realise Behringer is made in China these days right?
[13:07:47] <jpdrawneek> like everything else
[13:08:06] <cmang_> heh, I got a new m-audio gear last night.  axiom 25
[13:08:26] <coffman> Tempt: sure
[13:08:27] <cmang_> got to say that the key action was better than I expected
[13:09:09] <Tempt> hmm, interesting.
[13:10:19] <flyingparchment> hmm, when it's making the annoying static, ossxmix shows activity in the meter for inputs.
[13:10:20] <Tempt> I just use my Juno when I need a MIDI keyboard
[13:10:29] <Tempt> flyingparchment: mute the inputs
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[13:10:40] <flyingparchment> that's the first thing i tried :)
[13:11:11] <cmang_> which juno, Tempt?  I've got one for my 2nd midi keyboard.  got the axiom for portability really
[13:11:45] <Tempt> alpha juno 2
[13:11:50] <cmang_> nice, same as mine
[13:11:57] <Tempt> I like the Alpha Juno
[13:12:14] <Tempt> it has some nice sounds and feels 'fun'
[13:12:21] <Tempt> I don't mix computers and music.
[13:12:22] <cmang_> me too, nice sound, nice keys.  heavy fucker, tho
[13:12:27] <Tempt> Then again, I never finish anything.
[13:12:34] <cmang_> ah
[13:12:45] <Tempt> I'm meant to be synth'ing up some sound effects for a friend's computer game this week
[13:12:59] <Tempt> I'll just use the hoover as a base for engine noise ;)
[13:13:54] <Tempt> What's your first midi keyboard?
[13:15:00] <cmang_> oh, the axiom now.  and there's a yamaha psr-225, not used as much unless I'm in a frankenstein multi-keyboard mood.  I guess the juno has been primary for a while
[13:15:31] <cmang_> but I'm always taking my laptop to friends' houses, recording them, making little beats and whatnot.  the juno wasn't very portable for that :)
[13:15:37] <Tempt> haha
[13:15:42] <Tempt> My Radias is even less portable.
[13:17:06] <cmang_> never seen that, looks fun
[13:17:41] <cmang_> ah, namm '06
[13:17:45] <Tempt> check out the video on korg.com
[13:22:11] <WickedWicky> <Tempt> I thought all those grubs were meant to fix that problem.
[13:22:18] <WickedWicky> to be honest i think it did
[13:22:23] <WickedWicky> question is: does the solaris installer know?
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[13:22:48] <Tempt> don't know. I can put root in the last cylinders of my workstation ;)
[13:23:03] <WickedWicky> well that's the funny part of this all
[13:23:15] <WickedWicky> in SXCE69 even when / was slice 0
[13:23:23] <WickedWicky> it put it at the end of the ATA disk
[13:23:30] <WickedWicky> so what is it even complaining about?
[13:24:43] <quasi> anyone know if SXCE 70 is ok for cluster express or if it is better to stick to 68?
[13:24:50] <Tempt> perhaps Sun should have a "cheap ultra-45 for developers / opensolaris community members" promo
[13:24:53] <Tempt> and kill x86 dead.
[13:24:59] <WickedWicky> I'd be in for it
[13:25:04] <quasi> Tempt: that'd be nice
[13:25:07] <WickedWicky> to be honest, if i had the cash I'd buy a sparc
[13:25:14] <Tempt> Ultra-45s for all
[13:25:21] <jpdrawneek> yay
[13:25:28] <WickedWicky> I'd even sign a contract that in return for the sparc I'd be actively involved in testing and documentation
[13:25:31] <quasi> WickedWicky: seems like the cheapest way is the smallest rack mount
[13:25:48] <Tempt> v125
[13:25:49] <Tempt> hmm
[13:25:52] <WickedWicky> this just sucks
[13:25:55] <Tempt> maybe...
[13:26:05] <WickedWicky> I'll need a non-sata disk to install SXCE70
[13:26:12] <g4lt-mordant> hey, if they ver offered the U25 on a U20-esque deal, I'd be all over it
[13:26:19] <mbalmer> I have lots of sparc64, but they are all old and slow ;(
[13:26:28] <Tempt> sparc64? fujitsu?
[13:26:45] <quasi> g4lt-mordant: yeah, me too
[13:26:55] <jpdrawneek> where you find them?
[13:27:31] <WickedWicky> should I report a  bug?
[13:27:47] <WickedWicky> this obviously isnt desired behaviour
[13:27:49] <Tempt> If you want it fixed, report a bug.
[13:27:54] <Tempt> If you don't want it fixed, ignore it.
[13:28:10] <jpdrawneek> if your not doing anything wierd then yes
[13:28:41] <WickedWicky> I am running the installer
[13:28:44] <WickedWicky> both fail btw
[13:29:00] <WickedWicky> when I put in a 200GB ata disk it works
[13:29:10] <lplatypus> the sparc workstations still have single-core ultrasparc IIIi's in them right?  is there a roadmap for newer CPUs on the desktop?
[13:29:13] <g4lt-mordant> by "weird" you rpolly mean "using opensolaris without a support contract"...
[13:29:29] <WickedWicky> ..
[13:29:36] <g4lt-mordant> lplatypus, depends, tadpole has one for a coolthreads laptop ;P
[13:29:37] <Tempt> Actually, wierd would be using OPENsolaris *with* a support contract
[13:29:38] <WickedWicky> dont tell me I need a support contract to file a bug please
[13:29:43] <WickedWicky> ah
[13:29:52] <mbalmer> doesn't the Ultra 40 M2 have more cpu power that the ultra 45?
[13:29:57] <lplatypus> g4lt-mordant: interesting :-)
[13:29:58] <g4lt-mordant> not to opensolaris, but to follow it up with sun, yes
[13:30:12] <WickedWicky> well
[13:30:29] <WickedWicky> where I work we have platinum spectrum contracts
[13:30:32] <g4lt-mordant> mbalmer, didn't I already beat you once for suggesting that X86 had any advantage over saprc?
[13:30:38] <jpdrawneek> lplatypus: hopefully a baby rock
[13:30:43] <WickedWicky> but this is not life threatning
[13:30:49] <WickedWicky> it'll just be annoying for ppl with big sata disks
[13:30:54] <Tempt> Yeah, take the x86 appreciation elsewhere or g4lt will beat you again.
[13:31:14] <mbalmer> g4lt-mordant,  this was a question and not an appreciation... ;)
[13:31:32] <lplatypus> jpdrawneek: I guess that would suit a workstation better than a T2
[13:32:11] <g4lt-mordant> most of that depends on if you consider power as defined strictly by clocks instead of flops/mips
[13:32:53] <g4lt-mordant> x86 falls down hardcore on mips, since even basic instruction take multiple clockcycles
[13:33:26] <mbalmer> no real calculation power.  i.e. doing image manipulations, math and such.
[13:33:47] <g4lt-mordant> I'd have to pull out my TASM guide, but even a simple fmult takes 5 cycles
[13:34:02] <kjetilho> fmult is obsolete
[13:34:12] <mbalmer> or like, running a larger PostgreSQL database or and web app server using Zope.
[13:34:13] <g4lt-mordant> kjetilho, so is TASM ;P
[13:35:01] <g4lt-mordant> in that case, the U40 falls  down, because the sparc will still move things through the IO pipe much faster
[13:35:05] <Tempt> Yeah, I'd like to see any desktop peecee outperform my blade-1000 on an Oracle load.
[13:35:35] <Tempt> I get the feeling the 15k FC spindles in my workstation might just give it an edge ;)
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[13:35:48] <lloy0076> Well, I got my upgrade to work.
[13:36:14] <coffman> Tempt: well, a dual core amd 64 with 4 sata disk will kick it :P
[13:36:23] <lloy0076> It seems that lucreate copied bits and pieces of /export and that confused ZFS and made it all fall in a heap.
[13:36:34] <g4lt-mordant> look at all of the memory bus gyrations taht X86 has to go through.  sparc is still using COTS DDR2
[13:36:42] <lloy0076> It was a bit harrowing doing cd /export; rm -rf *; - but it did fix it
[13:36:57] <Tempt> coffman: Not so sure sometimes.
[13:37:36] <coffman> crazy thing, the thumper is the fastest mssql server :P
[13:37:45] <lloy0076> When one does lucreate and it makes the copy, when there is a LIVE Brand LX zone on /export, should it copy any of the file in /export/zones/linux (which is a mount point for a ZFS pool in export/zones)?
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[13:37:56] <Tempt> cmihai.
[13:37:57] <lloy0076> <-- is probably not making too much sense
[13:38:09] <cmihai> Hi Tempt
[13:38:31] <cmang_> Tempt: just wondering, do you use a software patch editor with your juno?
[13:38:32] <jpdrawneek> coffman: i would hope a 14k server was :)
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[13:39:17] <cmihai> Well, I see they still haven't fixed that bug in XChat heh
[13:39:58] <g4lt-mordant> cmihai, what, the one that leets me on? ;P
[13:40:39] <cmihai> No, the one that doesn't let me on :P
[13:40:51] <cmihai> Double clicking the systray icon kills X-Chat :-)
[13:40:53] <Tempt> cmang_: Nah, no software anything.
[13:41:11] <Tempt> cmang_: Every time I try to mix music and computes I spend half an hour dealing with computer hassles and then give up
[13:41:21] <cmang_> lol, I see
[13:41:43] <Tempt> Last time I took a serious stab at trying to use some software sequencing I shelved my synths for over a year
[13:42:01] <cmihai> Oh, you do music Tempt?
[13:42:09] <Tempt> Oh, from time to time
[13:42:13] <cmihai> Reason, Cubase, Acid, FL Studio, that sort of deal?
[13:42:18] <cmang_> I find the alpha dial a bit difficult to work with, but then I'm still more or less learning some synth basics I'd say.
[13:42:19] <Tempt> When I get time and inspiration.
[13:42:30] <cmang_> I work quite well with the digital audio workstation, tho (Logic, in my case :)
[13:42:46] <cmihai> I sort of gave up on that when I realised I had over 500 GB of sound samples :P
[13:42:53] <Tempt> cmihai: NO COMPUTERS! Radias, RM1X, Alpha Juno2, old sampler
[13:43:18] <cmihai> Meh
[13:43:27] <cmihai> Where's the fun in that :-)
[13:43:44] <mbalmer> they can't be programmed, so they don't crash...
[13:43:45] <Tempt> Where's the fun in messing around with Windows locking up or MacOS removing your MIDI mappings?
[13:44:00] <cmihai> Well, yes, that's the idea :D
[13:44:12] <Tempt> The only computer involving is backing up the floppy disks from my sequencer ;)
[13:44:29] <cmihai> Gee... floppies.
[13:47:10] <cmihai> Heh, Windows firewall is funny.
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[13:47:27] <cmang_> I'm laughing already. :)
[13:47:47] <cmihai> You run some app, use it for like 10 minutes and then realize it was asking "do you want to allow this app? I'm BLOCKING IT!!!!11"
[13:48:08] <cmihai> So.. if you don't click "block / unblock" it's just unblocked even though it says otherwise.
[13:48:37] <cmihai> Still haven't allowed XChat to access the blogsphere, yet.. here I am :-\
[13:48:48] <Gekkko[PDA]> lolvista.
[13:48:59] <mbalmer> well, it's a staidful firewall in windows...
[13:49:23] <mbalmer> it stayed full of bugs...
[13:49:37] <cmihai> heh
[13:52:29] <Tempt> blogsphere
[13:52:33] <Tempt> cmihai said blogsphere
[13:52:53] <Tempt> If he says folksonomy I'll plan an overseas trip to stick a SPARC machine right up his arse
[13:53:49] <Gekkko[PDA]> Tempt: Vista on SPARC
[13:53:54] <cmihai> Well, at least I'll get a SPARC.. cyborg style.
[13:54:02] <cmihai> Gekkko[PDA], nah, you can only run NT on SPARC :P
[13:54:15] <Gekkko[PDA]> imagine though
[13:54:27] <Gekkko[PDA]> A ported disease.
[13:54:30] <cmihai> I'd bet Aero performance would suck :-)
[13:54:43] <Gekkko[PDA]> it's like giving polio to dogs.
[13:54:49] <flyingparchment> Tempt: i own the username 'folksonomies' on livejournal.  still trying to decide what to do with it..
[13:55:16] <Tempt> flyingparchment: How about putting up a giant rant about crap words?
[13:55:37] <cmihai> Just make it Web 2.0 :-)
[13:56:08] <Gekkko[PDA]> record yourself writing your site's html then post it on youtube
[13:56:13] <cmihai> Maybe you'll get a job at Sun marketing :-)
[13:56:17] <Gekkko[PDA]> then comment yourself.
[13:56:24] <Tempt> Bio:i am the incarnation of pretentious bloggers everywhere.
[13:56:37] <Tempt> Still 2.0. No upgrades
[13:56:46] <Tempt> I guess that's because everything is still in beta
[14:03:03] <mbalmer> i have a nice blog, it has nothing on it ;)
[14:03:42] <mbalmer> short stories...
[14:03:43] <Gekkko[PDA]> I have localhost for my thoughts.
[14:03:55] <Tempt> localhost cares.
[14:04:44] <Gekkko[PDA]> ,lol
[14:04:55] <Gekkko[PDA]> make love
[14:05:05] <Gekkko[PDA]> error: love not found
[14:05:10] <Gekkko[PDA]> </3
[14:05:14] <mbalmer> $ make love
[14:05:14] <mbalmer> make: don't know how to make love. Stop in /home/mbalmer.
[14:05:25] <mbalmer> (BSD, not solaris)
[14:05:26] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol
[14:05:34] <cmihai> $ make :== $sys$system:teco32 make
[14:05:35] <cmihai> $ make love
[14:05:35] <cmihai> Not war?
[14:05:46] <cmihai> OpenVMS :-)
[14:06:01] <Gekkko[PDA]> >.>
[14:06:05] * quasi waits impatiently for the creation of alternate boot environment
[14:06:30] <Gekkko[PDA]> yay SXCE 70
[14:06:42] <Gekkko[PDA]> and 71 on the way >.>
[14:06:46] <cmihai> Yeah. download it atm. Can't wait to try Solaris on my new laptop :-)
[14:06:59] <Gekkko[PDA]> x86!!
[14:07:02] <coffman> Gekkko[PDA]: there will be a b70a and b70b
[14:07:11] <Gekkko[PDA]> why?
[14:07:26] <coffman> b70 is the base for the new sxde
[14:07:39] <Gekkko[PDA]> ah.
[14:07:41] <coffman> and with b70 there are a couple heavy new things
[14:07:50] <coffman> so it have to be stable
[14:08:53] <Gekkko[PDA]> oooh
[14:08:55] <Gekkko[PDA]> newww
[14:08:56] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol
[14:09:09] <coffman> like speedstep etc
[14:09:14] <cmihai> coffman, anything apart from speedstep stuff?
[14:09:16] <lloy0076> lol
[14:09:25] <lloy0076> And a chdir that actually tells you what dir it was trying to change to?
[14:09:27] * lloy0076 flop
[14:09:40] <coffman> sunssh gets synced with openssh
[14:09:51] <cmihai> Those seem pretty minor
[14:09:51] <Doc> ... once every 4 years
[14:10:00] <lloy0076> Does synced mean replaced by?
[14:10:13] <coffman> nope
[14:10:13] <mbalmer> coffman, which version of openssh?
[14:10:24] <coffman> just feature sync
[14:10:29] <mbalmer> where will be the differences?
[14:10:50] <cmihai> SunSSH has some added PAM stuff and such
[14:10:53] * quasi is only doing LU to b68 to get cluster express up and rolling
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[14:11:06] <coffman> and some stuff for trusted
[14:11:24] <cmihai> Yeah
[14:13:30] <cmihai> Oh man, distrowatch stats sure have gone down
[14:13:54] <Tempt> ha
[14:13:57] <Tempt> distrowatch
[14:13:58] <cmihai> Solaris is down to 42, FreeBSD down to 22, pretty much everything is going down :-)
[14:14:02] <Tempt> How do they get their stats anyway?
[14:14:10] <Gekkko[PDA]> clicks
[14:14:11] <cmihai> Clicks per day or something
[14:14:37] <Tempt> Sounds unreliable
[14:14:51] <cmihai> It is...
[14:14:54] <Tempt> I bet Sun doesn't exactly stream web stats to them
[14:15:07] <cmihai> nah
[14:15:08] <Tempt> What's winning on distrowatch?
[14:15:24] <Gekkko[PDA]> tempt: clicks on the distro link on the site...
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[14:17:40] <mbalmer> which url for those stats?
[14:18:07] <cmihai> FreeBSD and Solaris dropped 10 places from last year... odd.
[14:18:40] <cmihai> I think the bubble burst, public knowledge has reached saturation levels, they don't need silly link sites anymore..
[14:20:26] <cmihai> I wonder if OpenSolaris download have also stabilized. Does Sun publish download stats?
[14:20:50] <quasi> cmihai: people sometime blog about them
[14:22:22] <boyd> Tpenta: ping
[14:22:42] <FrostCS> and state how the number of people who sign up for free media are community members..
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[14:23:11] <boyd> By definition all of them are.
[14:23:23] <boyd> (since you have to sign up to order one)
[14:23:37] <cmihai> Yeah, would be fun to get some real numbers / statistics , not a bloated figure of how many people order free media or download Solaris once to see what it's all about.
[14:23:52] <Tempt> meh.
[14:23:55] <Tempt> Who cares?
[14:24:04] <Tempt> All usage stats are inaccurate
[14:24:07] <cmihai> You know, numbers on accounts that download it more then once, or follow some OSol build or whatever.
[14:24:08] <quasi> cmihai: the advocacy community might know something
[14:24:21] <quasi> Tempt: lies, damn lies and statistics
[14:24:26] <kjetilho> patch downloads would be most accurate, I think
[14:24:29] <cmihai> And benchmarks quasi :P
[14:24:46] <cmihai> kjetilho, true. Or better yet, the number of support contracts :-)
[14:24:46] <Tempt> the advocacy community knows more about lies and damned lies
[14:24:54] <quasi> kjetilho: not really - you don't generally download patches for osol
[14:25:01] <cmihai> and benchmark,s don't forget the benchmarks :D
[14:25:04] <Tempt> number of Solaris contracts per year vs. number of RHEL contracts
[14:25:10] <Tempt> That'd be interesting.
[14:25:13] <cmihai> Yeah
[14:25:32] <WickedWicky> hooray! my fav. soccer team won their first competition game with 1-8
[14:25:40] <FrostCS> and number of linux users who still wet their beds..
[14:25:43] <Doc> well, my backup finished.  i really should buy that L9
[14:26:00] <cmihai> Just seen a cool product from Western Digital
[14:26:05] <cmihai> A 2TB USB disk :-)
[14:26:12] <cmihai> With Firewire or GbE optional
[14:26:23] <cmihai> That makes a pretty handy cheap home backup device
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[14:26:36] <WickedWicky> me wants!
[14:27:10] <kjetilho> cmihai: 2x1TB in RAID0?
[14:27:19] <cmihai> I think it's 3x1tb
[14:27:30] <kjetilho> oh, wow.  expensive, then :)
[14:27:35] <cmihai> Oh, wait, it's 2x1TB
[14:27:36] <Tempt> gimmeh a thumber full of 1tb drives
[14:27:41] <cmihai> and offers mirroring or striping
[14:27:44] <cmihai> http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=341
[14:27:51] <quasi> Upgrading Solaris: 1% completed
[14:28:09] <cmihai> Comes with EMC software... lol
[14:28:14] * kjetilho is waiting for 1 TB to drop a little more in price
[14:29:09] <cmihai> It's 400$ a TB
[14:29:17] <cmihai> Not a bad price for Firewire 800
[14:29:57] <cmihai> http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=340 - the one with ethernet
[14:31:25] 
[14:31:32] <kjetilho> it's not much of a premium, really.
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[14:33:45] <Doc> my DLT8k and tapes cost me $0/Gb
[14:34:06] <Doc> actually, DLT7k
[14:34:39] <jmcp> the LTO2s that I was bidding on doubled :(
[14:35:02] <Doc> that's probably tempt bidding it up
[14:35:08] <WickedWicky> lol
[14:35:11] <kjetilho> Doc: do you have HSM software?
[14:35:41] <Doc> i installed SAM-FS once. lasted about a week before i gave up on using it
[14:36:04] <Doc> well, that's to say i installed it at home once.  I've installed it multiple times elsewhere
[14:36:35] <kjetilho> I haven't tried it -- what was the problem?
[14:36:53] <Doc> no problem as such, but the concept of HSM is generally fairly complex
[14:36:54] <FrostCS> Sam isn't much of a people person
[14:37:14] <Doc> my real issue was that i didnt have a library that would allow me to have enough tape on-line at once
[14:37:46] <jmcp> Doc: I bet
[14:38:07] <Doc> yah.. i should have taken the L1100 that mastercard offered me
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[15:21:51] <mbalmer> hmm, the opensolaris installer lets me choose a partition, but I can choose/define a disklabel.  I hope the defaults are ok...
[15:22:41] <mbalmer> nv-b70-x86 that is
[15:25:16] <mbalmer> but then, the installier shows me a huge pile of icecream for the fourth time, yummi... ;)
[15:25:51] <cmihai> defaults suck
[15:26:04] <cmihai> no /altroot for lu..
[15:27:08] <sickness> I'm back from holidays
[15:27:51] <mbalmer> wrong nickname, if you just had holidays ;)
[15:28:07] <sickness> lol
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[15:28:55] <kaiwai> hmm, anyone else having trouble accessing opensolaris.org/sun?
[15:29:51] <mbalmer> not found, here
[15:30:00] <FrostCS> yep 404 here as well
[15:30:01] <kaiwai> damn my ISP sucks
[15:30:17] <kaiwai> the site doesn't even load
[15:30:25] <mbalmer> ah, the icecream again...
[15:30:30] <FrostCS> "The requested URL /sun was not found on this server."
[15:30:52] <mbalmer> they should put more different pics in the installer...
[15:31:18] <FrostCS> like some latin american women with jugs on their heads
[15:31:24] <kaiwai> hmm, I'm trying to work out what Pumpkins and a kid have to do with Solaris
[15:31:42] <mbalmer> or the guy staring at a screen....
[15:31:48] <kaiwai> FrostCS: they must be pretty big if she can get them to stretch them that far
[15:32:20] <mbalmer> is it a bad omen that dveloper support is mentioned with the picture of a cup of coffee?
[15:32:27] <mbalmer> better wait and drink coffee?
[15:32:42] <mbalmer> at  least there are two cookies as well...
[15:32:47] <kaiwai> or 'drink the coffee and wait; the IDE isn't as good as Visual studio"
[15:33:13] <FrostCS> mbalmer, that is the only guy on the developer support staff
[15:33:32] <FrostCS> he really doesn't know too much, but he needs the coffee to keep himself awake 24/7 to take the calls
[15:33:36] <mbalmer> hehe ;)  so the cup of coffe totally makes sense...
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[15:34:16] <kaiwai> hmm, if it were me, I'd be popping a valium
[15:34:37] <kaiwai> "mmm. opiate goodness - what you need when running Solaris...or any OS for that matter"
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[15:35:46] <kaiwai> hmm, Larry Ellison seems to he likeing NZ
[15:36:23] <jmcp> only because his boat is longer than your entire navy
[15:36:28] <jmcp> laid end to end ....
[15:36:35] <Tempt> aah, fukkit, another marketing company offering to purchase my domain
[15:37:05] <kaiwai> jmcp: of course :)
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[15:37:34] <kaiwai> jmcp: but unlike Aussie, we've got water and greenery :)
[15:37:46] <jmcp> kaiwai: hey, it's been raining here today thankyouverymuch
[15:37:58] <Tempt> Marketing companies offering to buy your domain mean if you say yes, they'll try and sue you; if you say no they'll screw you around.
[15:38:01] <Tempt> hate.
[15:38:05] <kaiwai> damn sun.com sucks
[15:38:09] <kaiwai> still hasn't loaded
[15:38:17] <kaiwai> what are they running, Windows?
[15:38:31] <quasi> kaiwai: loads instantly here
[15:38:36] <kaiwai> not here
[15:38:38] <jmcp> kaiwai: I haven't had any problems seeing opensolaris.org or sun.com
[15:38:52] <kaiwai> hp/Sun/zdnet/news.com
[15:38:55] <kaiwai> fail to load
[15:39:01] <jmcp> kaiwai: you *are* in NZ, remember
[15:39:12] <quasi> kaiwai: seems like local issues
[15:39:18] <FrostCS> jmcp, he specifically asked for opensolaris.org/sun page, did he not?
[15:39:30] <jmcp> true, but that page doesn't exist
[15:39:35] <kaiwai> jmcp: yeah, but everything else loads
[15:39:47] <kaiwai> no, I said opensolaris/sun as it sun.com
[15:39:53] <kaiwai> geeze *shakes head* lateral thinking boys
[15:39:58] <FrostCS> jmcp, well that's an entirely different issue. :-)
[15:40:16] <jmcp> FrostCS: you need more lateral thinkingness
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[15:43:38] <Pietro_S> hmm sdm (sun java download manager) is crap
[15:44:12] <kaiwai> Pietro_S: hmm, why, whats wrong with it?
[15:44:43] <Pietro_S> yesterday I didn't finished download, shutdown pc, and today he is claiming that download is finished, checksum is of course bad
[15:45:02] <kaiwai> moral of the story, don't turn off the PC :)
[15:52:06] <Pietro_S> and when I put that link that I want to download it ask me if I want to start from begin or to continue
[15:52:36] <jpdrawneek> seems reasonble
[15:52:41] <Pietro_S> when I click on continue it tells "Download finished/ zip not extracted" :-(
[15:53:05] <jpdrawneek> not good
[15:53:18] <jpdrawneek> i been lucky never had a problem with sdm
[15:53:21] <Pietro_S> and of course it did not download any single bit!
[15:54:36] <FrostCS> I download without sdm, and never had a problem.
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[15:56:31] <Pietro_S> I feel now quite silly, because I nearly downloaded it ...
[15:58:02] <cmihai> Oracle 11g is out for grabbing :-)
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[15:58:34] <cmihai> oh, only for Linux. BOOO
[16:00:31] <kaiwai> hmm, just a quick question: anyone here find host resolving slow on solaris?
[16:00:39] <nightswim> not particularly
[16:00:50] <kaiwai> or is it an extension of my original theory: "my ISP sucks"
[16:01:11] <Tempt> Run your own caching DNS
[16:01:17] <Tempt> Remove your ISP from the equation
[16:01:35] <kaiwai> hmm, a local dns server?
[16:01:40] <Tempt> yes
[16:01:56] <kaiwai> hmm, how would I syncronise mine DNS servers with others?
[16:02:08] <Tempt> by understanding how DNS works.
[16:02:23] <Tempt> Or just blindly follow a caching DNS howto.
[16:03:16] <Tempt> either way you'll get the desired result.
[16:04:24] <kaiwai> hmm, I think it has to do with the ISP - oh well, nothing lost
[16:05:08] <Tempt> If you think the problem is with your ISP's DNS, run your own.
[16:05:25] <fluffle> http://brain.cx/DNS-HOWTO/index.html
[16:05:29] * fluffle hides
[16:05:30] <Tempt> It isn't very hard at all
[16:05:36] <Tempt> The average Linux user can do this!
[16:05:49] <kaiwai> lol
[16:07:44] <WickedWicky> hellows kaiwai!
[16:07:51] <kaiwai> hi WickedWicky
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[16:14:07] <kaiwai> hmm
[16:14:19] <kaiwai> apparently Linus is now an expert of CVS
[16:14:46] <Tempt> Linus an expert on everything. He even understands the Solaris source enough to say Linux is better.
[16:15:01] <jfndi> Without reading it
[16:15:11] <Tempt> He's that good.
[16:15:15] <kaiwai> has anyone actually punched his lights out? wasn't he beaten up enough as a child?
[16:15:27] <Tempt> You should do it.
[16:15:30] <Tempt> Fly over there and job him
[16:15:35] <WickedWicky> lol
[16:15:43] <WickedWicky> oh chrust
[16:15:45] <WickedWicky> christ too
[16:15:46] <WickedWicky> haha
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[16:16:26] <Tempt> I'll buy kaiwai a beer if he does the deed. Anyone else with me?
[16:16:39] <WickedWicky> I am
[16:16:46] <myrkraverk> last I heard, christ died a long time ago, it's too late to job him
[16:16:52] <kaiwai> see, Theo is an asshole but there is a small element of truth in what he says
[16:16:56] <kaiwai> linus on the other hand is a wanker
[16:17:05] <kjetilho> kaiwai: URL?
[16:17:27] <kaiwai> http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/08/19/1246236.shtml <-- link on slashdot
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[16:18:56] <kaiwai> "I'm a big believer in that the 'details' matter, and if you take care of the details, the big issues will end up sorting themselves out on their own." <-- Oh the fucking irony, is that why the USB stack has been rewritten over 3 times?
[16:18:59] <kjetilho> kaiwai: great, "Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005'"
[16:19:19] <kaiwai> kjetilho: read the message 'article' which is a mirror
[16:19:30] <Tempt> [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Transaction (Process ID 183) was deadlocked on lock resources with another process and has been chosen as the deadlock victim. Rerun the transaction.
[16:19:37] <Tempt> Guess that site isn't doing so well
[16:19:45] <kaiwai> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=273761&cid=20285299
[16:20:00] <kjetilho> kaiwai: thanks
[16:20:29] <kaiwai> Tempt: if their SQL server is anything like Active Directory, it must be running like crap
[16:20:43] <Tempt> shattered
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[16:22:05] <Tempt> "he Linux desktop is just so much better than what traditional Solaris has, and I expect Solaris to move more and more towards a more Linux-like model there." crappity crap crap
[16:22:18] <Tempt> At least he only references the desktop - an admission that Solaris wins on the server front?
[16:22:55] <kaiwai> Tempt: or the fact he doesn't have a fucking clue on either count
[16:23:20] <kaiwai> he's yet another fucking code hacker who couldn't design something to save his life, so he throughs shit against a wall to see what sticks
[16:23:29] <kaiwai> *throws
[16:24:19] <kaiwai> constant re-writes aren't an example of 'progress' but of poor planning and design
[16:24:50] <jfndi> design... hmm
[16:25:41] <kjetilho> Tempt: why is it crap?  CDE *is* dead
[16:26:03] <kaiwai> kjetilho: what has that got to do with the price of fish?
[16:26:31] <Fish> $7
[16:27:02] <kaiwai> Fish: how much fun can I have with you for $3.50?
[16:27:42] <Tempt> He does admit he likes to shitstir.
[16:28:15] <Tempt> kjetilho: fvwm is "dead" too, obviously the linux desktop is dead.
[16:28:44] <Fish> Kaiba: sex for twice more
[16:31:48] <kjetilho> Tempt: what's your point?
[16:32:22] <kjetilho> where is the thriving Solaris specific desktop development?
[16:32:27] <kaiwai> kjetilho: like I said, what has CDE got to do with the success or failure of solaris on the desktop?
[16:32:55] <kaiwai> unless you've been living under a bloody big bolder for a few years, solaris has JDS and KDE
[16:33:00] <kjetilho> I don't see why you are arguing about this.
[16:33:07] <Tpenta> you would be surprised at the number of solaris folks involved in projects like gnome
[16:33:15] <kjetilho> GNOME and KDE development is *very* Linux centred
[16:33:18] <mbalmer> just finished my install on the laptop.  no problem.
[16:33:18] <Tpenta> indeed thenumber of PAID Sun people working in gnome
[16:33:23] <flyingparchment> i thought gnome was the linux desktop, does it run on solaris?
[16:33:29] * flyingparchment runs away
[16:33:30] <mbalmer> and is has the nice CDE and Motif.
[16:33:35] <Tpenta> many are under that misapprehension
[16:33:42] <kjetilho> Tpenta: yes I know, they're responsible for accessibility and doing a good job
[16:33:53] <Tpenta> gnome is a desktop for unix like environments it runs on far more than just linux
[16:33:56] <kjetilho> but you still see a lot of reliance of Linux kernel APIs
[16:34:06] <kjetilho> which you have to hack around
[16:34:07] <mbalmer> unfortunately and old version of motif
[16:35:09] <kaiwai> kjetilho: like what? who relies on linux kernel api's?
[16:35:17] <Tempt> Linus does.
[16:35:48] <flyingparchment> i rely on linux kernel apis.  solaris won't be a competetive server OS until it has a working KDE port.
[16:35:49] <kjetilho> dbus and NetworkManager
[16:36:01] <mbalmer> KDE is bogus...
[16:36:11] <kjetilho> they compile on Solaris, too (when the moonphase is right) but with less functionality
[16:36:20] <Tpenta> Fortunately most Solaris folk are not so parochial to say that" if it didn't originate on Solaris it can't be any good". To paraphrase Bill Joy, innovation happens everywhere
[16:36:25] <kjetilho> and gamin is not very good on Solaris
[16:36:44] <kjetilho> Tpenta: right!  of course there is no need for a Solaris specific desktop
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[16:37:06] <kaiwai> kjetilho: do you ever *KNOW* what you're talking about?
[16:37:10] <kjetilho> but the truth is that you simply won't be able to add a feature to GNOME which requires Solaris, whereas the opposite is true
[16:37:14] <Tpenta> for Solaris to go develop another desktop would be the hight of arrogance
[16:37:27] <Tpenta> kjetilho: I beg to differ
[16:37:36] <Tpenta> you shoudl chat with gman some time when he is online
[16:37:45] <kjetilho> Tpenta: I hope you're right
[16:37:48] <kaiwai> dbus already exists on Solaris, and Solaris doesn't use NetworkManager (which many have pointed out to be a PITA) but instead NWAM is attempting to provide easy to use networking without all the shit which NetworkManager brings
[16:38:11] <kjetilho> kaiwai: you're just confirming what I'm saying
[16:38:20] <Tpenta> with respoect to kde, go and check out the blastwave builds some time
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[16:38:51] <Tpenta> the folks who build it there must have control of themoon phase
[16:38:56] <kaiwai> kjetilho: why the fuck do you want networkmanager when nwam will do the same fucking thing?
[16:39:03] <kaiwai> jesus fuckng christ
[16:39:35] <flyingparchment> say fuck more, it'll make your argument more persuasive
[16:40:03] <Tpenta> flyingparchment: did you see my comment on kde?
[16:40:16] <kaiwai> flyingparchment: but honestly, please, look at the two before making stupid comments about the fact that networkmanager can't compile on solaris
[16:40:18] <flyingparchment> Tpenta: my previous comment was not serious.  ;-)
[16:40:45] <Tpenta> ok
[16:40:48] <kaiwai> because dbus requires patches and networkmanager can't compile on solaris, it appearntly makes solaris horribly crippled for the desktop
[16:40:57] <kjetilho> I didn't say that
[16:41:10] <flyingparchment> although, i have to say, i tried the non-blastwave KDE on nevada, and didn't have much luck - lots of crashing.
[16:41:15] <flyingparchment> (never tried blastwave's one)
[16:41:21] <kjetilho> I'm saying it's not incorrect to call GNOME the Linux desktop, which that is what matters in the release schedule
[16:41:35] <kjetilho> s/which/because/
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[16:42:03] <kjetilho> the fact that some components won't compile on Solaris is *not* a release stopper
[16:42:11] <Tpenta> OK folks, please keep in mind that what we have here is a single channel of communication, we don't get the overtones etcs that we would in other media, before taking offense at what someone says, try to see if it can be read in a non-offensive manner first.
[16:42:23] <kaiwai> kjetilho: NetworkManager isn't part of the GNOME distribution
[16:42:25] * Tpenta puts his channel op hat back away ;)
[16:42:30] <LeftWing> One would hope that if OpenSolaris had its own desktop environment that it would use less memory than GNOME tends to. =)
[16:43:12] <mbalmer> what's wrong with motif/cde?
[16:43:24] <LeftWing> It's on the way out?
[16:43:31] <kaiwai> Leftwing: the ideal dream would be a re-created MacOS like desktop using GNUstep frameworks
[16:43:43] <flyingparchment> mbalmer: nothing is wrong with CDE if it works for you.  some people want something different.
[16:43:49] <Tpenta> Many folks regard it as obsolete and useless; It does still have it's uses as far as I'm concerned. The big difficulty with it is that it is not open and it's no longer being developed
[16:44:01] <Pietro_S> why don't you use xfce then? It looks good, stable enough, have lot's of ported goodies-plugins and don't want your whole memory
[16:44:06] <LeftWing> kaiwai: I doubt that's everybody's dream.
[16:44:32] <kaiwai> LeftWing: well, its all things considered; if it meant 100% compatibility with MacOS X, it would be nice :P
[16:44:33] <Tpenta> fortunately or unfortunately (depending onyour point of view), desktop folks want eye candy
[16:44:39] <kjetilho> although I don't care much for C++, I think it's pretty clear that KDE is better designed than GNOME.  I mean, it actually *has* some design :)
[16:44:42] <Tempt> Or just use whatever you like?
[16:44:56] <LeftWing> Pietro_S: I'm considering it -- just need to generate a build that works on my Sun Ray server from Doug Scott's spec files.
[16:45:15] <Tempt> Perhaps we could package up a single magic package that installs everything for KDE, AfterStep, fluxbox, Enlightenment etc etc
[16:45:19] <kaiwai> kjetilho: I like KDE but it needent be one or the other, KDE 4.0 for solaris is being worked on right now as we speak
[16:45:24] <Tempt> Everyone has all the choice they can ignore
[16:45:30] <Tpenta> bingo!
[16:45:37] <Tpenta> it's all about choice
[16:45:39] <Pietro_S> LeftWing: if you give me sun ray server I will build it for you
[16:45:40] <LeftWing> Tempt: Your and your giant magic packages with everything. =P
[16:46:06] <LeftWing> Pietro_S: I think I can manage.  =)
[16:46:18] <Tpenta> I have the right to choose something that really hammers my memory if I want the eye candy, I have the right to choose somethign that may not be as pretty but allows me to use my memory better,... it's about choice
[16:46:23] <Pietro_S> LeftWing: the only need is that nevada has to be used as sun ray server which I'm not sure if it's possible
[16:46:35] <LeftWing> Pietro_S: Oh, it's very possible.
[16:46:41] <Tpenta> for what it's worth I like some of the eye candy and tend to run one of the more basic gnome themes
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[16:47:02] <LeftWing> I quite like the Nimbus stuff.
[16:47:14] <Tempt> LeftWing: Hey, it makes life easier.
[16:47:22] <postwait>  /join #asterisk
[16:47:26] <Tpenta> nimbus is nice, but there were a few problems a few months back and I simply havent changed back
[16:47:26] <flyingparchment> at least gtk pixmap themes aren't fashionable anymore
[16:47:30] <Tempt> I want a DE that consumes at least 8Gb of RAM
[16:47:32] <LeftWing> Tempt: It's also sooo wrong. ;P
[16:47:51] <LeftWing> Tpenta: What are you using now, then?
[16:47:55] <Tempt> LeftWing: My tools package only has lightweight stuff in it. I wouldn't package big things in that bundle
[16:48:00] * Tpenta recalls when folks said EMACS stood for eight meg and constantly swapping (in the day of machines with a couple of meg of memory)
[16:48:03] <Tempt> LeftWing: I keep seperate packages for server stuff and databases etc
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[16:48:19] * Tempt remembers being on a host where emacs was banned due to RAM constraints
[16:48:19] <LeftWing> Tempt: I figured.
[16:48:25] <kjetilho> when I started out with Linux, I had the choice of running X or running Emacs :-)
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[16:48:42] <LeftWing> heh
[16:49:01] <LeftWing> Whereas these days one simply fires up emacs and it contains an X11 server? :P
[16:49:10] <kjetilho> hehe
[16:49:11] <Tpenta> I actually dont recall it's been so long since i changed it
[16:49:12] <kaiwai> Emacs - dear god
[16:49:19] <kaiwai> I loaded that up and could find my way out of it
[16:49:21] <LeftWing> Tpenta: Fair enough.
[16:49:28] <Tpenta> lemme see
[16:49:31] <kaiwai> give me vi anyday
[16:49:42] <kjetilho> kaiwai: read the tutorial, C-h t
[16:49:44] <LeftWing> kaiwai: Most people have the same problem with vi to begin with.
[16:49:47] <cmihai> Tempt,  Of course, on the system *I* administrate, vi is symlinked to ed. vi is symlinked to ed.
[16:49:48] <cmihai> Emacs has been replaced by a shell script which 1) Generates a syslog
[16:49:48] <cmihai> message at level LOG_EMERG; 2) reduces the user's disk quota by 1GB; and 3) RUNS ED!!!!!!
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[16:50:12] <LeftWing> heh
[16:50:28] <Tpenta> damn it's been customized, I have no idea what it was based on, probably something like mist
[16:50:46] <LeftWing> I used mist for a while.  It's pretty lightweight.
[16:50:52] <Tempt> mist?
[16:50:56] <Tempt> as in fog and mist?
[16:50:59] <LeftWing> It's a GTK theme.
[16:51:14] <Tempt> aah
[16:51:25] <Tempt> Does anyone make those uber-ricer themes anymore?
[16:51:30] <LeftWing> Probably ideal for Sun Ray environments actually, no gradients or anything.
[16:51:35] <Tempt> Big bulky assymetric pointy window decorations?
[16:51:45] <LeftWing> There are a few included, I should think. :P
[16:52:37] <Tempt> When I get these new LCDs I want to waste pixels on something!
[16:52:49] <LeftWing> heh
[16:53:15] <Tempt> 2560 pixels wide? That's way too big for a single terminal window
[16:53:18] <LeftWing> I hear twm is where the eye candy is at these days.
[16:53:36] <cmihai> Tempt, Like a 22'' widescreen LCD?
[16:53:36] <Tpenta> i used to live with tvtwm
[16:53:41] <Tempt> 30"
[16:53:42] <cmihai> They're like 250$ now :-)
[16:53:46] <cmihai> Get 2 of those for fun
[16:53:47] <Tempt> Samsung Syncmaster 305T
[16:53:52] <cmihai> 30''? That's a bit.. extreme
[16:54:08] <LeftWing> Tpenta: And rc? :P
[16:54:10] <Tempt> I'm thinking about getting another U20 to run SXCE
[16:54:22] <Tpenta> yes
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[16:54:31] <quasi> Tempt: that's a nice screen - I'm quite pleased with the 24" version
[16:54:32] <Tpenta> I did use rc (that was me installed that ;)
[16:54:42] <LeftWing> lol
[16:55:11] <Tempt> Need a bigger desk so I can fit my workstations on
[16:55:17] <cmihai> Isn't that like 3000$?
[16:55:31] <cmihai> I'll take 2 250$ 22'' widescreens thank you :-)
[16:55:33] <Tempt> the LCD? About $AU1700 if you shop around
[16:56:05] <Tempt> I always liked the look of the Sun 24" LCDs. With their little legs
[16:56:27] <flyingparchment> i always put off getting an lcd because of the small dpi compared to crts
[16:56:33] * flyingparchment likes 1600x1200 at 17"
[16:56:48] <quasi> Tempt: looked nice, but probably horribly bad ergonomics
[16:57:02] * LeftWing falls asleep. &
[16:57:45] <flyingparchment> seems silly that laptop lcds have good dpi, but desktop ones don't
[16:58:05] * quasi wonders about copying back once a live upgrade has finished - would lumake be the way?
[16:58:43] <Tempt> 1600x1200 @ 21 isn't bad.
[16:58:47] <Tempt> That's why I'm using now.
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[16:59:39] <flyingparchment> i'm thinking about getting a widescreen lcd, i guess i should get used to it.
[16:59:48] <flyingparchment> with the better definition, maybe it's not so bad
[17:01:06] <cmihai> Well, if you shell out 300 Euro you can get a 22'' widescreen Horizon with TV Tuner too.
[17:01:12] <cmihai> It's awesome.
[17:01:27] <quasi> cmihai: Horizon?
[17:01:32] <flyingparchment> i download all my tv ;-)
[17:01:53] <cmihai> quasi, some rebranded something else.
[17:02:04] <cmihai> LG I think
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[17:06:37] <Kaiba> ?
[17:06:43] <WickedWicky> what's better, performance wise.. a CPU running at 2174Mhz and a FSB of 143Mhz or a CPU running at 2014Mhz with a FSB of 155Mhz?
[17:07:14] <oxygene> WickedWicky: depends on several factors - instruction set, cache sizes, type of work load, ...
[17:07:15] <jfndi> I think Fish meant kaiwai.
[17:07:20] <cmihai> Well, first of all, does that even exist?
[17:07:30] <Tpenta> given how close those numbers are, i suspect that you'd be pushed to notice an actual difference
[17:07:31] <cmihai> And second of all, it depends especially on the speed of the memory
[17:07:44] <WickedWicky> it does when you declare your Athlon XP 2400+ EOL and just wanna screw till the point it blows up
[17:07:53] <WickedWicky> I'm overclocking it :P
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[17:08:10] <cmihai> I think the actual FSB is 300Mhz isn't it?
[17:08:20] <cmihai> You know, double the speed  you're messing with there
[17:08:32] <flyingparchment> 155 seems like a very slow fsb for an athlon 2400+
[17:08:38] <cmihai> It's double
[17:08:38] <flyingparchment> aren't they 200 or 266?
[17:08:41] <cmihai> Yes
[17:08:42] <WickedWicky> oh wait, I mean CPU Host Frequency
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[17:09:27] <WickedWicky> it's on 133Mhz by default for an athlon 2400XP+ and the multiplier is 15
[17:09:45] <Shiv__> Hi Laca.
[17:09:51] <cmihai> Yeah, that should be 266, try 300, see what happens :-)
[17:10:01] <cmihai> As in 150
[17:10:14] <cmihai> Took my 2600 to 3200+
[17:10:23] <mbalmer> how the size of menu fonts be controlled in firefox?
[17:10:34] <cmihai> Had to mess with voltage and cooling though. And all you get is 10% performance in terms of CPU, not worth it
[17:10:42] <Shiv__> Laca: The BASEDIR in my package is root, but I would like it to be /usr, how do I set it?
[17:10:42] * flyingparchment is still using a 1.2GHz Athlon MP, i guess i'm not down with the leet overclockers
[17:10:44] <kaiwai> IIRC thats done in gnome fonts settings since they use gtk widgets
[17:11:10] <WickedWicky> I am not a leet over clocker, this is time I'm doing something like this
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[17:12:35] <Shiv__> The %files section seems ok. It is getting set properly for sub-packages
[17:13:25] <Shiv__> The BASEDIR is set to /usr for the sub-packages (SFEfoo-doc or SFEfoo-l10n...)
[17:13:31] <FrostCS> hrm, is there going to be a fight to get 16:9 working through a sunray?
[17:13:43] <Shiv__> But for the SFEfoo.pkg BASEDIR is set to /
[17:14:22] <mbalmer> hmm, gcon-editor seems not to help...
[17:14:39] <Pietro_S> Shiv__: %define _basedir your_dir
[17:15:32] <Shiv__> It is already set properly. That is what is getting used for the sub-packages (in the same spec)
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[17:16:11] <Shiv__> 1spec outputs 3 packages, 1pkg has incorrect BASEDIR while the other 2pkgs has it correctly.
[17:17:02] <Shiv__> Installation is not an issue. Gets installed in the right directories.
[17:17:09] <Pietro_S> Shiv__: do you mean sub-packages? few packages in single spec?
[17:17:17] <Shiv__> Right.
[17:18:43] <Pietro_S> I think that base_dir is only for svr4 package ...
[17:19:36] <Shiv__> The directory information is split between pkginfo and pkgmap files.
[17:19:42] <Pietro_S> Shiv__: can you post somewhere shole spec file?
[17:19:45] <Shiv__> pkginfo has the BASEDIR
[17:20:03] <Shiv__> pkgmap has the relative directories within *this* BASEDIR
[17:20:37] <Shiv__> Currently my package has / in pkginfo and usr/bin/<xyz> in the package
[17:20:57] <Shiv__> What i need is /usr in pkginfo file and bin/<xyz> in pkgmap
[17:21:17] <Shiv__> Because there are no files installed outside /usr
[17:24:30] <Pietro_S> Shiv__: where did you defined basedir? right after include?
[17:24:47] <Shiv__> Here is the spec : http://pastebin.ca/663406
[17:25:33] <Shiv__> Nopes, it is the default SFE includes that I am using. I checked the values of basedir, subdir, prefix, etc using the spectool. It seems fine.
[17:26:10] <Shiv__> If basedir variable had the error, it should have occured in other sub-packages as well !
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[17:26:55] <mritun_> hello folks
[17:27:02] <mritun_> any experts on grub ?
[17:27:39] <Pietro_S> Shiv__: this is difference SUNW_BaseDir:            %{_basedir}
[17:27:52] <Pietro_S> that is only in definition of sub packages
[17:28:44] <Pietro_S> it looks like svr4 package react only on SUNW_BaseDir not on _basedir
[17:30:05] <Pietro_S> try to define it also in main package for example line 26
[17:30:20] <Shiv__> Yes, _basedir is just a variable. It doesn't find its place into the package.
[17:30:46] <Shiv__> Looks like SUNW_BaseDir has been missed for the base package.
[17:37:47] <Shiv__> Fixed :-)
[17:39:18] <Pietro_S> ;-)
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[17:52:18] <Pietro_S> I think we should gives some Award  to project wich are compatible with Solaris/studio compilers
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[17:54:16] <mbalmer> btw, most CDE app Help texts refer to "Commona Desktop Environment".  Common_a_ instead of Common.  Funny.
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[18:00:06] <odw199> hi all, when installing solaris I set the hostname to be xorn, but i now want to set it to be xorn.hopto.org
[18:00:20] <CIA-21> df125853: 6526639 Deadlock in fcp code : fp_nexus_enum_tq taskq deadlocks with devfs
[18:00:51] <odw199> I've changed all the files in /etc (as far as I can tell) but when I reboot, the bfe0 interface is in POINTTOPOINT mode, how have I done this and how can I change it to a normal IP interface?
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[19:07:49] <Pietro_S> Triskelios: did you revert your change in SFEsigcpp.spec?
[19:09:49] <Pietro_S> looks like, it's working
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[19:29:44] <Pietro_S> how I force date to use C locale? LC_LOCALE=C date nor LC_LANG=C date don't work
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[19:36:19] <mritun_> b70 is out ???
[19:36:30] <Triskelios> mritun_: correct
[19:36:34] <mbalmer> yes
[19:37:28] <mritun_> wow
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[19:38:09] <mritun_> which build of SXCE is included in starter kit ?
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[19:41:34] <mbalmer> mritun_ how do I find out?
[19:42:07] <mritun_> umm... no idea
[19:42:15] <mritun_> anyways, a peculiar question
[19:42:32] <Triskelios> it's probably at last 10 builds behind
[19:42:37] <mritun_> if I copy the whole /boot to a FAT partition, solaris should be able to boot of it, right ?
[19:42:51] <Triskelios> *at least
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[19:43:23] <mritun_> because if I do that, grub load it fine, but then screen blanks out, and pc reboots
[19:43:34] <mritun_> (b60)
[19:43:38] <WickedWicky> awesome, the new installer is completely useless when you have an ATA or SATA hard disk of a reasonable size (read 200GB or so)
[19:43:59] <mritun_> WickedWicky: !!!???
[19:44:12] <mritun_> or rather when the partition is above 137GB
[19:44:13] <mritun_> ?
[19:44:22] <Triskelios> mritun_: well, the miniroot (failsafe boot) works off of FAT...
[19:44:56] <mritun_> (and bios is old)
[19:44:56] <WickedWicky> it tries to create a root partition and then fails with the error "Partition '/' extends beyond the HBAs first 1024 cylinders"
[19:44:56] <WickedWicky> no
[19:44:56] <mritun_> ___exactly__
[19:44:57] <mritun_> I have the same problem
[19:45:22] <mritun_> solaris partition starts *just* around 137 GB boundary
[19:45:23] <WickedWicky> I am using the "Solaris Express" installer now and create my own slices
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[19:45:54] <WickedWicky> and I bet my ass off that once I am done and I type "format" I'll see that my root slice is starting beyond the 1024th cylinder
[19:46:44] <mritun_> WickedWicky: I think you should be fine by having a /boot slice as first
[19:46:45] <Triskelios> WickedWicky: you mean the automatic partitioning is putting the root slice in the wrong position?
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[19:46:52] <WickedWicky> the BIOS is not old, the installer assumes things it shouldnt. I used to have a slice 0 named '/' of 20 gigabytes
[19:47:28] * mritun_ has problem... I didn't create /boot, and now kernel is in region [120-140] gb, and boot_archive is above 137GB :-/
[19:47:39] <WickedWicky> Triskelios: I never had problems, I only have problems since SXCE 70
[19:48:00] <WickedWicky> using a SATA disk for your root slice is a no-go no matter what you try
[19:48:18] <mritun_> why ?
[19:48:23] <mritun_> doesn't recognize that ?
[19:48:26] <Triskelios> there should be no reason to have a / that large anyway...
[19:48:27] <WickedWicky> it does
[19:48:42] <mritun_> then ?
[19:48:54] <WickedWicky> but even when I make a root slice of 5510 MB, which is 660 cylinders acording to the installer, you get an error message that the root slice extends the 1024 cylinders
[19:49:14] <WickedWicky> fact is: it's the installer that puts it beyond these cylinders
[19:49:20] <WickedWicky> I'll show you in a bit when the installation is done
[19:49:41] <mritun_> thats gonna be a *huge* problem for me
[19:49:43] <Triskelios> WickedWicky: so the automatic partitioning is screwing up?
[19:49:54] <WickedWicky> var will start at cylinder 1 to x, then swap from x to y and root from y to z , where y and z are the last cylinders
[19:50:01] <WickedWicky> Triskelios: I think so, I filed a bug
[19:50:20] <WickedWicky> with SATA it might be that something fishy goes on with LBA translation
[19:50:27] <WickedWicky> with ATA, I have no clue what's going on
[19:51:13] <WickedWicky> mritun_: the only work around I have for now is to get an ATA disk and use it as root/boot disk
[19:51:24] <WickedWicky> this is an x86 system though, it might be different for sparc
[19:52:23] <WickedWicky> now I wanna update my bug report with the "small" detail that the SXDE installer shows the same behaviour for ATA as the SATA drives but i cant find my bug back
[19:52:38] <mritun_> WickedWicky: what if you partition it manually ?
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[19:53:50] <WickedWicky> that's what I am doing now, which is only possible in the "Solaris Express" installer, not the "Solaris Express Developer" installer (which funny enough is the default choice by grub on the SXCE dvd), hence why I say the SXDE installer is useless
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[19:56:22] <WickedWicky> lemme try something
[19:56:23] <mritun_> ah
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[20:03:22] <bobbyz> hey, does anyone know of any tools similar to patch check advanced?  I like pca, but it seems like it breaks too often from sun updates.  The Solaris built-in patching tools are okay, but it's a bit annoying having to install the extra 30 or so packages needed on a minimal system
[20:04:12] <jbk> well, if you're a platinum customer, there's a nifty tool you can get
[20:04:13] <kjetilho> I haven't noticed pca break very often?  it did just recently, but ...
[20:04:17] <jbk> though i forget it's name..
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[20:04:35] <WickedWicky> mritun_: just for your info: I just created a root slice of 200GB, and it accepts it
[20:04:47] <WickedWicky> so it's really the new installer that's creating amock
[20:05:05] <bobbyz> kjetilho: I suppose you're right.  It isn't that frequent.  I think I'm just noticing it more because I've been installing solaris several times this week
[20:05:09] <WickedWicky> plust the SATA business that wont accept my filesystem layout no matter what
[20:05:37] <bobbyz> jbk: This would be for home use, so I guess I wouldn't fit the bill as a platinum customer  :)
[20:05:53] <jbk> heh probably not
[20:05:55] <WickedWicky> wb cmihai
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[20:16:27] <_Megaf> 
AVATAR

[20:17:20] <cmihai> Hey
[20:17:55] <Triskelios> Rawn027: btw there is an SFEfreeradius package now, let me know if you need LDAP support (currently disabled)
[20:18:32] <g4lt-mordant> why the hell is somebody using mirc in a fucking solaris channel?
[20:19:06] <DerJoern> why not?
[20:19:26] <Triskelios> he's "special"
[20:19:37] <mbalmer> what stands "SFE" for?
[20:20:04] <Triskelios> I don't know, actually
[20:20:18] <g4lt-mordant> DerJoern, because unless you're running it in wine or on a sunpci mirc doesn't work on solaris
[20:20:34] <Triskelios> mbalmer: oh, spec-files-extra
[20:20:35] <g4lt-mordant> sfE?  I know what sfW is
[20:21:30] <ptribble> SFE - spec-files-extra; see http://pkgbuild.sourceforge.net/spec-files-extra/
[20:24:21] <WickedWicky> cmihai: screw overclocking, I can't get the host clock further than 143Mhz above that my IDE bussess start to go beserk
[20:24:28] <WickedWicky> so that's not really worth it ;-)
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[20:31:14] <cmihai> WickedWicky, like I said, there isn't any real performance gain, very little in terms of CPU power, but the other stuff is still slow as hell :-)
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[20:32:00] <migi> hello
[20:32:15] <migi> anyone installed Nevada on dell d630 laptop ?
[20:32:27] <cmihai> What the bejesus
[20:32:33] <cmihai> They ditched the Motif based installer
[20:32:39] <cmihai> They really are phasing out CDE big time
[20:32:42] <WickedWicky> yea and
[20:32:44] <cmihai> There's some GTK-ish thing now
[20:32:46] <WickedWicky> you missed my ranting
[20:32:52] <cmihai> Is this.. caiman?
[20:33:44] <WickedWicky> the installer is f*cking useless
[20:33:44] <Triskelios> cmihai: hope so
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[20:33:44] <cmihai> It sucks :P
[20:33:45] <WickedWicky> it wont let me layout filesystems
[20:33:45] <WickedWicky> :P
[20:33:45] <cmihai> I hope they stop messing around with JumpStart at least :-)
[20:33:45] <mbalmer> yes, it sucks.
[20:33:46] <WickedWicky> well, it doesnt suck
[20:33:51] <WickedWicky> there is just heaps of room for improvement
[20:33:58] <cmihai> Wait, I can't mess with disklabels :P
[20:34:04] <mbalmer> they think they are smart by eliminating all motif stuff, but they are not.
[20:34:37] <cmihai> I don't see how GTK improves an installer.
[20:34:40] <WickedWicky> I think it was per request of many to ditch the motif stuff
[20:34:43] <WickedWicky> eye candy
[20:34:47] <WickedWicky> more user friendly
[20:34:50] <cmihai> This is yet another "Let's all do Java" crap
[20:35:00] <cmihai> I guess GTK is the new Sun fad
[20:35:12] <mbalmer> in what way is gtl more user friendly than motif?  it is just different.
[20:35:15] <WickedWicky> granted it looks way nicer than the motif installer
[20:35:28] <mbalmer> it is a fucking stupid installer.
[20:35:37] <Triskelios> the problem is the old installer sucked
[20:35:43] <mbalmer> you have no chance to create a disklabel
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[20:35:50] <Triskelios> but if caiman isn't ready they shouldn't be shipping it
[20:36:00] <WickedWicky> that
[20:36:06] <cmihai> At least they added options for adding regular users in the insdtaller
[20:36:07] <WickedWicky> or
[20:36:12] <WickedWicky> more ppl should have tested it
[20:36:19] <WickedWicky> yes
[20:36:20] <WickedWicky> now
[20:36:21] <cmihai> mbalmer, that _really_ sucks
[20:36:25] <Triskelios> sounds like it's missing functionality from the old installer
[20:36:25] <cmihai> The default labels suck
[20:36:26] <WickedWicky> try to go on with the installaiton
[20:36:30] <WickedWicky> and see if you get what I got
[20:36:31] <WickedWicky> :P
[20:36:38] <WickedWicky> when you do, you'll be in for some fun
[20:36:43] <cmihai> And I don't want to mess around with format later to add /altroot then grow / shrink stuff
[20:37:33] <cmihai> Man, the Installer has like 3 steps, it's less usefull than the one in Vista
[20:37:43] <mbalmer> gtk/motif or whatever in the installer.  but not being able to define the disk/partition layout sounds strange.  I am sure I missed an option.
[20:37:45] <WickedWicky> You can use the old installer, choose for "Solaris Express" in grub
[20:38:04] <WickedWicky> mbalmer: it isnt there
[20:38:15] <WickedWicky> I sent an email about it to osol today
[20:38:24] <WickedWicky> osol-discuss, that is
[20:38:30] <WickedWicky> I thought i was going blind
[20:38:49] <cmihai> It doesn't look bad though.Shows a picture of a coffee cup while installing
[20:39:02] <WickedWicky> you install on a sparc?
[20:39:37] <mbalmer> it repeats those pics endlessly.  cup of coffee, stupid guy, icecream, pumpkins...
[20:40:03] <cmihai> Feels a bit faster too
[20:40:09] <mbalmer> I't rather slice my disk thank read that sun markting 101....
[20:40:27] <kjetilho> mbalmer: so use the text installer
[20:41:03] <cmihai> Heh, LiveUpgrade pumpkins
[20:41:14] <Triskelios> my guess is that the SXCE installer will have the missing functionality restored when caiman is used for that, if it currently isn't
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[20:41:37] <cmihai> Triskelios, this isn't caiman?
[20:41:39] <cmihai> What is it?
[20:41:43] <cmihai> A temporary replacement?
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[20:41:53] <Triskelios> cmihai: <WickedWicky> You can use the old installer, choose for "Solaris Express" in grub
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[20:42:14] <Triskelios> cmihai: <WickedWicky> You can use the old installer, choose for "Solaris Express" in grub
[20:42:22] <Triskelios> so this is only used for SXDE
[20:42:40] <cmihai> Eh
[20:42:55] <Triskelios> might be the difference between "dwarf caiman" and real caiman then
[20:43:20] <WickedWicky> even though in SXDE you had the option to create slices as well
[20:43:40] <WickedWicky> and if what you say is true then they shouldnt make SXDE installer the default for an SXCE release
[20:44:52] <cmihai> lol
[20:44:57] <cmihai> It is Gnome
[20:45:01] <cmihai> I pressed Print Screen
[20:45:05] <cmihai> "Failed to run gnome-screenshot"
[20:45:09] <Triskelios> it's been that way for a while... annoying really, since the installer doesn't always decide to upgrade correctly
[20:45:23] <Triskelios> (SXDE as default for SXCE that is)
[20:45:42] <Triskelios> (by "the installer" I meant the old installer)
[20:45:43] <axisys> can anyone explain what is the second port (602) for during nfs mount? i could not find anything in google on that yet
[20:45:58] <axisys> http://rafb.net/p/yNtcUV99.html <-- here is the port
[20:46:13] <axisys> that port seems dynamic
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[20:46:15] <mbalmer> gnome, where you multiple multi-megabyte daemons running just to start the simplest application....
[20:46:30] <mbalmer> s/where you/where you need/
[20:47:52] <Triskelios> I think that's mostly inconsequential given how large the previous installer was when it used Java
[20:49:40] * mbalmer is happy not to use java to much
[20:50:03] <cmihai> Well, it is a lot faster then the old installer...
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[20:50:08] <cmihai> now if they'd just add some features ;-)
[20:50:22] <cmihai> The old one used to "set up java" for 15 minutes
[20:51:00] <mbalmer> well, what do you expect from a sluggish language?
[20:51:19] <ptribble> cmihai: 15 minutes - what are you using, a 386?
[20:51:43] <cmihai> Nope, quad core xeon :P
[20:51:44] <Triskelios> ptribble: it took 5 minutes on older sparcs
[20:52:04] <cmihai> Can't say the same about the watch though :P
[20:52:14] <mbalmer> 5 mins, lol.... still a lot....
[20:52:20] <cmihai> Just make it metric time
[20:53:06] <Triskelios> if upgrades work properly, this is at least an improvement for upgrades, and in either case you're better off with the text installer for new installs (unless you really want to be able to copy and paste something in X during the install)
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[20:53:48] <ptribble> The odd thing about the set up java stuff is that it even happens on a text-based jumpstart install...
[20:56:19] <FrostCS> ahh, the ranting.. leave it to SXDE to pull up all the junk that isn't ready yet, and force it into builds :-)
[20:57:35] <ptribble> Well, SX is the beta version for testing - it's got to be pushed out someplace
[20:58:03] <FrostCS> sure, usually when something is shoved into sx it's atleast in some working order though
[20:59:16] <FrostCS> usually they don't push something, just because "looks like we're finished, time to test", "oh we are late, well.. no time for testing, in it goes!"
[21:00:33] <Triskelios> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/caiman/Dwarf/ claims the goals for dwarf caiman have been met, there was a formal RTI
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[21:01:37] <FrostCS> Oh, so it's surpassed all testing? well gents' looks like you all got your wishes, hope you like your new installer, it will be 10 years till you get a new one!
[21:02:20] <Triskelios> "It is not intended to replace the general GUI installer, nor does it modify the existing character and command-line interfaces. "
[21:02:20] <FrostCS> Just remind me not to hire that architect when I build my next house.
[21:03:24] <Triskelios> I think the real mistake was leaving SXDE as the default install option for SXCE builds
[21:04:05] <FrostCS> I think SXDE was the real mistake... :-P
[21:08:15] <ptribble> Um yeah. What is SXDE good for anyway? No good for OpenSolaris development (wrong compilers); no good for regular development where you want a stable foundation
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[21:09:00] <Triskelios> I think the difference is that you can get support contracts for it?
[21:11:07] <FrostCS> If you want to pay me, I will pretend to support SXCE as well.
[21:11:24] <Triskelios> and SX is much more usable desktop-wise than S10, so it makes more sense for general development not involving building ON
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[21:11:56] <FrostCS> I am sure my support would be much greater then the level provided by Sun on SXDE though..
[21:11:58] <ptribble> You can get support for regular solaris, that isn't going to change under you every few months
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[21:17:37] <ptribble> As for usability, I'm still sticking to S10 on systems I use for real work
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[21:20:04] <FrostCS> shrug, I haven't had any problems on sxce to any extent... as long as one doesn't mind filing bug reports.
[21:20:49] <FrostCS> I talk one of my personalities into acting like a support tech when filing the reports, and it seems as if I am getting paid support.
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[21:23:24] <mritun_> My beef with SXDE is that old tools are packaged with it
[21:23:40] <mritun_> Netbeans 5.5 and Studio 11 !!!
[21:23:56] <mritun_> developer edition is supposed to be for developers
[21:24:13] <mritun_> which means all *shiny* toys must be included
[21:24:40] <Triskelios> SXDE identical to SXCE except less frequently released, and thus out of date
[21:25:05] <mritun_> Ship it with Glassfish V2 (latest build), Studio 12 and Netbeans 6 (latest milestone), and it's golden !!
[21:25:16] <Triskelios> gives the support people less of a moving target...
[21:25:44] <mritun_> well, I doubt support people are too busy
[21:26:05] <mritun_> developers often just like to pop into IRC or forums
[21:26:32] <mritun_> and get instant replies, than bothering with support
[21:26:39] <mritun_> (that their company bought for them)
[21:27:36] <Triskelios> that's probably true
[21:27:56] <mritun_> and well, DE is partially broken too... packaging wise
[21:28:25] <mritun_> eg. not configuring (and even bundling) 64 bit Java on 64 bit platforms is a mistake
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[21:34:26] <FrostCS> 64 bit java is just twice as slow!
[21:34:36] <cmihai> FrostCS, no it's not
[21:34:42] <cmihai> FrostCS, it just uses twice the memory :P
[21:34:42] <FrostCS> oh, my other self told me I wasn't supposed to think that out loud
[21:34:44] <jbk> what i don't get is why on solaris, they don't link it with libmtmalloc
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[21:35:07] <jbk> it seems any network-heavy app calls into jni routines that ultimately call malloc()
[21:35:11] <mbalmer> java is a fraud anyway.  all concepts "stolen" from objective-C...
[21:35:13] <ptribble> Err, doesn't SXDE come with Studio 12?
[21:35:22] <cmihai> it does
[21:35:32] <jbk> and thus tend to throttle on the default giant malloc lock
[21:35:48] <quasi> ptribble: for a sufficiently recent SXDE
[21:35:50] <FrostCS> real men use Squeak
[21:35:54] <cmihai> ptribble, you must install with "Developer Edition" or manually run the install script after the install if you picked regular.
[21:36:14] <cmihai> FrostCS, making smalltalk again? :P
[21:36:23] <FrostCS> :-D
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[21:36:47] <quasi> DeveloperTools/SunStudio/ on the dvd
[21:36:49] <bobbyz> python, python, python!!!  :)
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[21:37:49] * cmihai goes back to scheming :-)
[21:38:25] <nachox> evening
[21:38:34] <ptribble> (confession: as most of my SX work is on sparc, and I use jumpstart anyway, I haven't had the pleasure of much of this SXDE stuff except where it's leaked out to corrupt the regular install)
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[21:46:26] <axisys> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-4555/6maoquib7?a=view this explains the mountd port
[21:46:44] <axisys> but it never mentioned if that port can be fixed
[21:46:58] <MooingLemur> can a zone share the global zone's IP address?
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[21:47:29] <quasi> MooingLemur: no
[21:49:27] <MooingLemur> thanks
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[22:07:17] <Triskelios> okay, I just uploaded 600MB of SFE binary packages
[22:07:32] * Triskelios wonders if pkg-get can use multiple repositories
[22:08:12] <g4lt-mordant> ask dclarke ;P
[22:16:09] <nachox> Triskelios, read it's config file
[22:17:01] <Triskelios> nachox: it only lets you specify a single repository
[22:17:44] <nachox> hmm, then read pkg-get it's a relatively simple ksh script
[22:17:46] <nachox> :P
[22:20:58] <Triskelios> oh, I didn't know that
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[22:52:41] <rootard> Does anyone know who "inaddy" is IRL?
[22:53:42] <rootard> he seems to own #nexenta but hasn't been online for 4 weeks.
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[22:57:38] <bobbyz> idk, but google has his e-mail addy as  inaddy at uol dot com.br
[22:58:21] <rootard> bobbyz: your google skills outrank my own... thanks. I'll give that address a try.
[22:58:30] <bobbyz> np
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[23:34:24] <e^ipi> for some reason, years later, i still manage to replace my ? with a capital Z
[23:34:44] <WickedWicky> azerty keyboard?
[23:34:50] <e^ipi> dvorak
[23:34:59] <WickedWicky> slavic!
[23:35:01] <e^ipi> i learned to touch type on qwerty though
[23:35:08] <WickedWicky> weee, I used such keyboards in Zagreb
[23:35:11] <e^ipi> WickedWicky: erm... no...
[23:35:22] <e^ipi> dvorak is not a slavic layout
[23:35:25] <WickedWicky> I am pretty sure they use them in Croatia
[23:35:30] <e^ipi> it's normalized to english
[23:35:33] <e^ipi> so i doubt it
[23:35:37] <WickedWicky> hm
[23:35:40] <WickedWicky> then I am confused
[23:35:44] <e^ipi> yes
[23:36:01] <e^ipi> dvorak has all the common english letters on the homerow
[23:36:14] <e^ipi> vowels on the left, consonants on the right
[23:36:24] <WickedWicky> that's not what i used then
[23:36:53] <e^ipi> strongest fingers ( middle finger ) have 'e' and 't' respectively
[23:37:36] <WickedWicky> I see
[23:38:05] <e^ipi> i'm not sure what the serbo-croat layout is
[23:38:19] <WickedWicky> it's a mess
[23:38:47] <WickedWicky> I was in an internet cafe there, first thing i did was switch to US-international and type blind
[23:39:20] <WickedWicky> same in brazil with their ABNT layout
[23:40:23] <WickedWicky> If I recall correctly when in school we worked with US layout as well, not NL layout
[23:46:14] <FrostCS> anyone know the difference in rebates offhand between buying a laptop with xp, vs vista, and declining the terms?
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[23:57:57] <jbk> well i'm really close from having a successful pass





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