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[00:05:10] <axisys> how do I check what version sun studio I have ? cc -V gives Sun C 5.8 2005/10/13
[00:05:40] <coffman> yes|pkgrm `pkginfo|grep staroffice|cut -d" " -f2 -`
[00:05:45] <coffman> so dirty :P
[00:05:56] <moazamraja> C 5.8 = Sun Studio 11
[00:06:16] <axisys> /opt/SUNWspro/bin/version
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[00:06:25] <axisys> that comamnd tells me it is 11.. cool
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[00:26:16] <jpdrawneek> tempt: you about?
[00:26:59] <jmcp> jpdrawneek: it's only 0826 in his TZ ... give him time to have his first espresso
[00:27:26] <elektronkind> http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SCOX&t=5d&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=
[00:27:31] <elektronkind> poor SCO
[00:27:53] <elektronkind> crocodile tears
[00:28:13] <jpdrawneek> jmcp: i forget the time thingy - uk 11:27pm
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[00:29:56] <jmcp> jpdrawneek: soft!
[00:31:23] <wesolows> oh, that's classic - a 70% overnight drop.
[00:31:53] <wesolows> I like their 1-year target of $5.00.
[00:31:56] <brendang> it'll be interesting to see where it's out after a week
[00:32:00] <brendang> s/out/at
[00:33:13] <jmcp> wonder how long before they are forced to delist
[00:33:16] <wesolows> Well, the market cap is now $9.4m, which is not ridiculous for a company doing a few million a year in business.
[00:33:45] <wesolows> But given their negative growth, lack of innovation, and apparent lack of assets, it's hard to understand why anyone would invest, even at 0.44.
[00:34:28] <brendang> maybe SCO is paying its employees by buying them stock
[00:34:32] <wesolows> jmcp: My guess is delisting in a few months, if they don't decide to wind up their affairs entirely by then.
[00:34:33] <g4lt-mordant> wesolows, to have SCOX stock
[00:34:46] <g4lt-mordant> it's like having tickets on the titanic
[00:34:52] <jmcp> :)
[00:35:09] <wesolows> g4lt-mordant: No, it was like buying a lottery ticket.  Low probability of success but a big payday if you win.
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[00:36:55] <wesolows> Now, you could've bought SCOX 1.50 puts and bet the other side at an even higher gearing.  You'd have made an absolute killing.
[00:37:22] <g4lt-mordant> the people buying at $0.44 are more of the "tickets on the titanic" people, like I  will prolly be once sharebuilder gets the order
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[00:37:47] <Megaf> how to install Linux apps?
[00:38:02] <wesolows> Megaf: You mean in BrandZ zones?
[00:38:06] <g4lt-mordant> Megaf, google for brandz
[00:38:14] <Megaf> ok
[00:38:50] <Megaf> nice
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[00:53:35] <e^ipi> hmm... X11 and widescreen don't really play well together by default
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[00:55:36] <e^ipi> kinna looks like ass, actually
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[01:04:44] <sahafeez> hey, what is the impact to opensolaris and the sco code that sun paid sco for
[01:05:21] <purserj> someone really needs to make an official announcement on that, just to clear things up
[01:05:46] <Gman> someone will comment soon i'm sure
[01:05:59] <e^ipi> oh ffs... this machine's using Xsun
[01:06:08] <moazamraja> whoever paid SCO needs to be taken behind the barn
[01:06:11] <e^ipi> I have absolutely no idea how to set that up for widescreen
[01:06:32] <purserj> Gman: yeah, soon would probably be better :)
[01:06:47] <Gman> purserj, it's been escalated, so yeah, people know about it
[01:07:07] <sahafeez> that would be JS that paid
[01:07:12] <moazamraja> well then
[01:07:26] <wesolows> ITYM Microsoft.
[01:07:29] <richlowe> e^ipi: the sparc? Yeah, it would be.
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[01:07:36] <sahafeez> not the best site but - http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=41650
[01:07:49] <richlowe> e^ipi: and depending on the fb's, I'm not sure you could.
[01:07:52] <richlowe> see what fbconfig gives you as options.
[01:09:19] <wesolows> sahafeez: No one knows.  No one can tell you.
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[01:10:47] <sommerfeld> sahafeez: no one who knows can tell you.
[01:10:59] <richlowe> no one who knows can tell you.
[01:11:02] <wesolows> Perhaps that's a more accurate phrasing, yes.
[01:11:22] <sahafeez> hum, well i always knew that sco would loose so...
[01:11:43] <sahafeez> i would hope someone where in the depths of sun they planed for this. like the us plan for invading canada
[01:11:58] <moazamraja> Wonder what Ed Zander is upto nowadays
[01:12:18] <jbk> the thing is (pure speculation, not a lawyer, etc) , i suspect any code novell might have is probably covered by the original unix license sun had
[01:12:23] <wesolows> moazamraja: You mean other than sinking Motorola?
[01:12:25] <jbk> moazamraja: looking for a new job possibly :)
[01:12:55] <wesolows> jbk: Since no one can do anything but speculate, the sensible thing to do is ignore it and go on with life.
[01:13:08] <moazamraja> jbk: yeah...wonder if there will be a 'boomerang' effect there
[01:13:22] <jbk> i thought the agreement looked like 'go away and don't bother opensolaris'
[01:13:23] <purserj> wesolows: that sort of ignores the very human tendency to gossip
[01:13:38] <sommerfeld> sahafeez: it is very dangerous to ever think you know how a court case will turn out.
[01:13:48] <wesolows> purserj: But we don't have any information.  What's there to gossip about?
[01:14:01] <jbk> well now even non slasholes are asking me about it because of that damn article :(
[01:14:04] <purserj> fertile ground for it I'd say
[01:14:21] <e^ipi> fbconfig -res \? says that I can do 1600x1000x66
[01:14:34] <sahafeez> sommerfeld: there is nothing wrong with an educated guess. and stuff like that is the biz i am in now so
[01:15:04] <wesolows> jbk: Well, Sun has decided that we're not allowed to know anything about it.  That means we can't blab and divulge secrets, but it also means we can't reassure anyone.  *shrug* That's corporate strategy for you.
[01:15:15] <elektronkind> why is the prtdiag output on x4100s just plain broken. Freekin' smbios lies.
[01:15:21] <jbk> :)
[01:15:53] <elektronkind> according to it, this box has no RAM and the FC HBA is non-existent
[01:16:10] <sahafeez> yah. nice. oh well. i am sure that sun and novell can work something out.
[01:16:13] <wesolows> elektronkind: That's much worse than usual.  I'm accustomed to serial numbers of 0 and the like, but not that.
[01:16:31] <wesolows> sahafeez: If there's anything to be worked out, I'm sure our lawyers are already working on it.
[01:16:45] * wesolows assumes there isn't and forgets all about it
[01:19:00] <sahafeez> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20070812
[01:23:55] <elektronkind> oh, what oh what will I do with my SCO OpenServer boxes
[01:24:31] <wesolows> same thing you'd do with them anyway
[01:25:02] <wesolows> haul them out of the dustiest, darkest old storage closet you have and donate them to an inner-city middle school
[01:27:34] <sahafeez> rove quits and sco loose. it is like a fairy tale :)
[01:27:48] * sahafeez looks for his lotto tickets
[01:28:22] <sahafeez> only $122m
[01:28:37] <wesolows> Hmm, that'd be enough for me.
[01:28:44] <coffman> wesolows: see? this is how you create people like bill gates or steve jobs. just dont do it
[01:29:34] <wesolows> ?
[01:30:45] <coffman> donating crap hardware to schools
[01:31:04] <wesolows> oh, that.  I was referencing Futurama.
[01:31:29] <sahafeez> cash values is 70m so after taxes you would have about 40m left
[01:31:44] <sahafeez> still. $40m is okay to live on for a while :)
[01:31:52] <wesolows> $40m would be enough for a small island, sovereignty, and a bit of military hardware.
[01:32:07] <sahafeez> i like the way you think
[01:32:33] <wesolows> I have a very clear goal in life.  :-)
[01:32:44] <sahafeez> i was very upset that the world seem to get it together in solamia. i was alway planning to use my $$ for a private army to take it over.
[01:33:21] <coffman> n8
[01:33:24] <wesolows> somalia is not very good land.
[01:33:26] <sahafeez> get a rocket lauch company and put some stuff in space
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[01:33:43] <sahafeez> there are some nice wealth in the ground
[01:34:07] <wesolows> I'm not interested in becoming an economic juggernaut, nor in taking care of a large population of mainly hungry and underskilled people.
[01:34:21] <wesolows> I just want the rest of the world to quit telling me what I can and can't do.
[01:34:22] <sahafeez> gps spy like. communications. have an extra 1 or 2 ton metal balls on each that i could drop on anyone that pissed me off.
[01:34:26] <sahafeez>  who needs nukes
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[01:34:50] <richlowe> not balls, cartoon anvils.
[01:34:51] <sahafeez> well my middle name is alexander so...
[01:34:52] <richlowe> and grand pianos.
[01:34:56] <sahafeez> yes!
[01:35:40] <sahafeez> hey, as long is it is big enough to drop thru the shell of that nuke plant in the country that is f'ing with you. MAD without nukes :)
[01:36:13] <e^ipi> can any of the sun framebuffers drive at 1680x1050?
[01:36:53] <sahafeez> orbital mechanics are a bit simpler and easier to hide then trying to process glow juice
[01:37:10] <sahafeez> hum, i think my xvr-1000 can do that
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[01:37:49] <e^ipi> IIRC it's what the apple 20" monitors use
[01:37:54] <e^ipi> i've got an acer 20"
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[01:37:58] <sahafeez> http://www.sun.com/desktop/products/graphics/xvr1000/specs.html
[01:38:15] <sahafeez> which acer
[01:39:52] <e^ipi> erm...
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[01:40:20] <e^ipi> al2016w
[01:40:36] <sahafeez> 1080p is 1920x1080 so..
[01:40:37] <e^ipi> and it's hooked to an FFB2+ in a blade 1k
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[01:45:56] <sahafeez> closes that ffb2 will do is 1600x1000
[01:46:11] <sahafeez> can you force to to non-standard res?
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[02:17:36] <Stric> e^ipi: 1680x1050 is defacto standard for all 20 and 22" consumer tfts nowadays
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[02:18:31] <wesolows> that's way too low resolution though; 1600x1200 is ok on a 20" but for 22 I really want 1920x1200 or more.
[02:19:11] <brendang> wesolows: you mean, you really want 1920x1200(x3)
[02:19:16] <Stric> it's the same dpi as a 19" does
[02:19:41] <brendang> (wesolows uses 3 screens simultaneously)
[02:19:46] <nachox> evening
[02:20:04] <Stric> I have 2x22"W at work, about 1m wide image
[02:20:54] <nachox> 3x22? thats way more than i can see :)
[02:22:14] <e^ipi> immerse youreslf in monitors
[02:24:01] <nachox> i wonder if that much radiation gives you cancer faster
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[02:29:38] <nrubsig> Does anyone know a tool to generate a HTTP POST request to a file ?
[02:30:01] <Stric> the command POST which comes with libwwwperl I think
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[02:31:03] <nrubsig> Stric: erm... anything which may be part of a normal linux installation ?
[02:31:15] <dlg> curl?
[02:31:22] <richlowe> wget?
[02:31:23] * dlg isnt sure on that
[02:31:25] <nachox> i bet python has libs to do that
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[02:31:34] <Stric> libwww-perl: /usr/bin/POST
[02:31:46] <Stric> maybe
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[02:47:26] <Megaf> im looking for sun wallpapers, or solaris/opensolaris wallpapers
[02:47:40] <Megaf> can anybody help me?
[02:47:50] <Tempt> google: opensolaris wallpaper
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[02:49:40] <SYS64738> Tempt, hi
[02:49:45] <SYS64738> is late o early ?
[02:50:28] <SYS64738> everytime I forgot if in au time is forward or back
[02:51:43] <Tempt> It's 10:51
[02:51:44] <Tempt> am
[02:52:06] <purserj> unless you live on a pacific island or in New Zealand always assume we're ahead
[02:52:07] <g4lt-mordant> au is backwards ;P
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[02:53:00] <nrubsig> !seen brendang
[02:53:03] <Drone> brendang is currently online in #opensolaris and last spoke on Tue 14 Aug 2007 00:19 GMT, saying '(wesolows uses 3 screens simultaneously)'.
[02:53:08] <nrubsig> !summon brendang
[02:53:34] <Tempt> ** With a roar of thunder and flash of lightning, Brendan is magically teleported to #opensolaris **
[02:53:54] <brendang> zap! someone called?
[02:53:55] <SYS64738> here 2.52 am then 8 hours forward or alot hours backwards ?
[02:53:58] <SYS64738> I am confused
[02:54:01] <Tempt> Magical summoning - another handy feature of ksh93.
[02:54:18] <nrubsig> brendang: do you know a tool to generate HTTP POST requests and send them to a _file_ ?
[02:54:33] <purserj> SYS64738: forwards
[02:54:53] <SYS64738> cool
[02:55:07] <nrubsig> brendang: I am trying to file an interface for google notebook but need access to HTTP POST requests...
[02:55:29] <nrubsig> s/file/write/
[02:55:48] <brendang> nrubsig: maybe "dog"
[02:55:59] <brendang> nrubsig: or Perl's LWP
[02:56:07] <brendang> nrubsig: or wget
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[02:56:23] <nrubsig> brendang: erm, do you have tools to do that ?
[02:56:39] <brendang> nrubsig: or "echo GET http://google.com?$foo HTTP/1.0\n\n"
[02:56:58] <brendang> brendang: I have wget, might have LWP, dunno if dog is installed.
[02:57:03] <nrubsig> brendang: GET requests will not work.
[02:57:10] <nrubsig> brendang: I need POST
[02:57:11] <brendang> brendang: then send POST
[02:58:08] <brendang> nrubsig: dude, do it in a browser while running "snoop -o /tmp/out1", then "mkdir /tmp/1; cd /tmp/1; chaosreader ../out1" - which will show you all the POST details (chaosreader is on www.brendangregg.com/chaosreader)
[02:58:17] <SYS64738> tomorrow I will have to combact with the e1000g0 interface
[02:58:40] <brendang> nrubsig: oh.. when I say run snoop, I mean run snoop if it is legal to do so (remembering recent German legislation change :)
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[02:59:21] <Tpenta> brendang, I was wondering if your tcp stuff might be of use
[02:59:28] <Stric> brendang: well.. mentioning default passwords for a netgear router is illegal too
[03:00:05] <brendang> Tpenta: I've used it for this type of thing plenty of times. quicker than running wireshark, and better in some cases.
[03:02:24] <SYS64738> I hate when I download corrupted dvd parts
[03:03:06] <richlowe> nrubsig: wait, nobody suggested you write something in ksh yet.
[03:03:12] <richlowe> nrubsig: so, you should write something in ksh to do it.
[03:03:27] <sommerfeld> Stric: now if only they could make putting a default password into a device illegal..
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[03:04:30] <millhouse> hey
[03:04:35] <nachox> a random password and some jtags to reset it would be legal? :)
[03:07:22] <millhouse> I've followed the ZFS send/receive examples for initial and subsequent incremental backups.  Is there a way to "merge" the incremental backups into the "initial" to avoid having to take full snapshots?
[03:08:37] * nrubsig kicks richlowe
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[03:11:28] <SYS64738> good night
[03:13:46] <millhouse> night
[03:14:27] <millhouse> dangit, I had Solaris10 working in a VM session and now it died
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[03:15:08] <nachox> vm snapshots are a blessing :)
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[03:20:42] <sommerfeld> millhouse: the only way I know of to merge is "zfs receive; zfs receive; zfs send".
[03:21:43] <nikinana> is there someone had installed Belenix into harddisc?
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[03:23:07] <millhouse> sommerfeld:  ah ok
[03:23:43] <millhouse> I ask because the data we're backing up is in TB's, so full backups on a regular basis (over 1GbE) can take a while
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[03:25:02] <sommerfeld> right, so you keep chasing incrementals and keep snapshots around as much as you can
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[03:27:08] <dlg> didnt sun opensource some network replicated block device stuff?
[03:27:56] <sommerfeld> yes.  i'm not familiar with it, though
[03:28:18] <nikinana> who can tell me how to boot BeleniX from hardisc?
[03:28:47] <dlg> any idea on when samqfs is going to be opened?
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[03:29:34] <millhouse> sommerfeld:  so, basically just create that first initial snapshot and then just do incremental backups
[03:29:48] <sommerfeld> right
[03:29:50] <millhouse> and merge the incremental backups
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[03:31:11] <millhouse> also, how is ssh as a file transfer protocol?  When I followed the example for zfs remote snapshots, it took about 9 hours to send 400GB of data
[03:31:24] <richlowe> alanc-away: you were right, I see.
[03:31:31] <dlg> millhouse: ssh has an interesting performance envelope
[03:31:32] <flyingparchment> ooh is good as long as you have a low rtt
[03:31:36] <flyingparchment> s/ooh/ssh
[03:32:47] <millhouse> so, to sound like a newbie, what would be a better way of going about remote snapshotting?
[03:32:50] <dlg> flyingparchment: newer opensshes have better performance over fat/long links
[03:32:57] <dlg> millhouse: get ssh working
[03:33:02] <millhouse> d'oh!
[03:33:15] <dlg> if you have lots of fses, you can figure out how to do the send/receives in parallel
[03:33:22] <flyingparchment> dlg: as good as normal TCP (+ protocol overhead)?
[03:33:36] <dlg> flyingparchment: no, there's a lot of crypto overhead with ssh, obviously
[03:33:45] <flyingparchment> that's what i mean by overhead
[03:33:48] <millhouse> yeah, i'm not concerned with the crypto honestly
[03:34:07] <millhouse> so, i just need an alternate remote login that'll work for remote snapshotting
[03:34:08] <dlg> ssh used to have a 64k buffer internally that it used to tx from
[03:34:27] <dlg> so no matter what your tcp send and recv windows were, you couldnt fill them because ssh only wrote 64k max at a time
[03:34:30] <flyingparchment> i usually encrypt data then copy it with http, faster than waiting for ssh
[03:34:36] <dlg> yeah
[03:34:50] <dlg> theyve recently moved to a different buffering scheme
[03:34:59] <dlg> its now at 2MB by default
[03:35:04] <dlg> and they refill it faster
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[03:35:16] <dlg> theyve also changed hwo they do some crypto stuff to make it less overhead
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[03:43:02] <millhouse> this is random,  but in ZFS is mirroring limited to 3 drives max?
[03:44:19] <StylusEater> I've got solaris 10 installed on an old x86 machine with an i810 (onboard) intel graphics...  all of the graphics look grainy though... I've checked my x config and it looks ok
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[03:45:03] <Stric> millhouse: no
[03:45:10] <Stric> millhouse: I just mirrored up 4
[03:45:15] <dj2> millhouse, http://blogs.sun.com/timf/entry/zfs_bootable_datasets_happily_rumbling
[03:45:18] <dj2> you can do at least 47, heh
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[03:45:59] <Stric> millhouse: are you referring to the "copies" thing?
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[03:47:58] <boyd> dlg: I wonder if that's what joerg was on about with regards star and rmt vs ssh
[03:48:19] <dlg> no idea
[03:48:54] <millhouse> yeah, sorry about that
[03:49:03] <dlg> im sure star is your solution no matter what the problem is though
[03:49:16] * boyd smiles wryly
[03:49:25] <millhouse> does s10u3 support zfs copies?
[03:50:24] <Stric> no
[03:50:27] <boyd> It doesn't have that property, so you can't get multiple copies for user data, but it does have ditto blocks for metadata
[03:50:33] <boyd> (except symlinks)
[03:50:55] <millhouse> ah
[03:51:50] <Stric> it supports traditional mirroring though
[03:52:07] <Stric> (kinda traditional)
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[03:57:25] <millhouse> i was just curious...  it'd be something i'd implement for about 10 minutes.
[03:57:42] <millhouse> the 3+ way mirroring thing
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[04:02:58] <boyd> With (vdev level) mirroring there is no practical limit to the number of copies that I know of
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[04:05:58] <Stric> millhouse: the copies thing isn't regular mirroring, but just additional copies with some special handling (for instance, keeping them away from eachother.. preferrably separate disks, otherwise far from eachother on the same platter)
[04:13:23] <millhouse> ah, thanks
[04:14:07] <millhouse> is it possible to upgrade s10u3's zfs version (from 3 to 7)?  safely?  and is it worth it?
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[04:18:05] <Stric> you can't go back to u3 then
[04:19:45] <millhouse> ah, ok
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[04:37:51] <nrubsig> http://www.pastebin.ca/656445
[04:37:57] <nrubsig> no comment
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[04:38:44] <nrubsig> you're all loooooosers... :-)
[04:38:49] <nachox> nrubsig, what are you writing?
[04:38:59] * nrubsig now starts to hookup support for Google notebook
[04:39:13] <nrubsig> nachox: read/write comments from/to pastebin.ca
[04:39:23] <nrubsig> now: read/write comments to google notebook
[04:39:37] <nachox> a ksh script to post crap to pastebin?
[04:39:44] <nrubsig> yes
[04:39:48] <nrubsig> and read from
[04:40:05] <nachox> and you seriously didnt have anything better to do?
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[04:40:54] <nachox> i dont know, for example, sleep, stare at the celling
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[04:41:24] <nrubsig> oh, oh, I know something good...
[04:41:33] <nrubsig> ... snapping your neck would be cool!
[04:41:38] <nrubsig> *CRACKS*
[04:41:44] <nachox> yeah, it would
[04:41:52] <nrubsig> ey
[04:42:00] <nachox> i'm a little far away from you though
[04:42:01] <nrubsig> corpses don't talk!
[04:43:30] * nrubsig adds support to upload binary data
[04:43:43] <nachox> i'm a very special dead guy
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[04:45:42] <nrubsig> Ok, now I have to figure out how I can do the character encoding right
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[04:49:40] <nrubsig> stupid question: is it possible to have stuff from usr/demo/ linked to usr/bin/ ?
[04:50:43] * nrubsig moves his head into wesolows's direction...
[04:52:45] <wesolows> possible?  Sure.
[04:52:50] <wesolows> Not sure about policy.
[04:53:15] <wesolows> If you mean stuff that's in /usr/demo showing up in /usr/bin, that's more likely to be a problem than the other way around.
[04:53:27] <wesolows> But in neither case do I understand why it's really necessary.
[04:53:32] <richlowe> It sounds contradictory, to me.
[04:53:38] <richlowe> it's either a demo, or a real deliverable.
[04:53:42] <wesolows> Yeah.
[04:54:11] <wesolows> And just because something is a real deliverable does not mean it has no illustrative value.
[04:54:27] <nrubsig> wesolows: I am writing a small application which can write and read from/to pastebin.ca and Google Notebook
[04:54:38] <nrubsig> wesolows: however the stabilty may be "unstable"
[04:54:53] <wesolows> Do you mean stability or correctness?
[04:55:00] <nrubsig> erm
[04:55:03] * nrubsig thinks
[04:55:06] <nrubsig> stabilty
[04:55:12] <wesolows> There's plenty of stuff that's Uncommitted in /usr/bin now, and there will be more.
[04:55:27] <wesolows> You may have a tougher sell on something that's Volatile.
[04:55:28] <nrubsig> what do you mean with "correctness" ? bugs ?
[04:55:39] <wesolows> Yes, correctness as in "doesn't work"
[04:55:45] <nrubsig> groan
[04:55:56] <wesolows> Stops working from time to time, or has been poorly-tested.
[04:56:03] <nrubsig> it works as long you have a) a network and b) pastebin.ca or google exist
[04:56:25] <wesolows> It would be amusing if the ARC made you get a contract for those interfaces.
[04:56:35] <wesolows> Though that would be technically correct.
[04:56:45] <wesolows> What did they do for jabber/gaim/etc.?  Seems a good parallel.
[04:57:05] <nrubsig> *shrug*
[04:57:22] * nrubsig imagines the AIM protocol being published in an ARC case
[04:57:23] <wesolows> see if you can find their ARC case
[04:57:25] <nrubsig> 1031208301283018473104739741 pages
[04:59:18] <nrubsig> technically pastebin.ca uses HTML forms and HTTP POST and HTTP GET as protocol... Google notebook uses XMLRPC
[04:59:45] <nrubsig> It will be fun to find reviewers for those scripts... =:-)
[05:00:22] <wesolows> Anyway, it sounds as if you intend these to add value to the system, so they belong in /usr/bin.
[05:00:40] <wesolows> If they're not meant to be used except as examples, /usr/demo is the right choice.
[05:00:48] <wesolows> I don't see a need or use for links between those.
[05:00:49] <Shiv__> If I build new packages that are foss, where should they go?
[05:00:56] <wesolows> foss?
[05:01:01] <nrubsig> wesolows: the original idea was to get people a way to post their logs from the system to pastebin.ca that we can view it here...
[05:01:21] <wesolows> nrubsig: Sure; I understand the use case.
[05:01:26] <nrubsig> wesolows: offtopic: who owns /usr/games/ right now ?
[05:01:30] <nachox> reviewing it includes reading and understanding the script? :)
[05:01:33] <Shiv__> free & open source software - should they go into /usr, /usr/sfw, /usr/gnu....?
[05:01:40] <wesolows> nrubsig: The Games CG?  Ask brendang
[05:01:44] <richlowe> nrubsig: my hope would be brendang, and the rest of the revelant community
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[05:01:52] <richlowe> but with spelling. :)
[05:01:56] <Shiv__> gnu is limited to existing gnu utilities I suppose...
[05:02:18] <wesolows> Shiv__: /usr, generally.  /usr/sfw is never right.  /usr/gnu is for the GNU stack only, and even then if there are nonconflicting names (gtar, for example) those should go in /usr/bin as well.
[05:02:20] <Shiv__> I have gone through the ARC proposal and the threads
[05:02:37] <wesolows> /usr/bin/gtar, /usr/bin/star, /usr/gnu/bin/tar == /usr/bin/gtar.
[05:02:56] <nrubsig> wesolows: I'm asking because I have feature requests for "gnaw" over and over again. Maybe I should move it from demo to a more permeanent solution - I appears to become the minesweeper of solaris... ;-/
[05:02:58] <wesolows> /usr/sfw was a mistake
[05:03:14] <wesolows> nrubsig: That's kind of cool actually.  I'd ask the Games CG.
[05:03:17] <nrubsig> s/solution/location/
[05:03:24] <CIA-17> ksadhukh: 6574102 Need to add extended family/model/stepping info to cpuid_pass1() for Intel processors (fix lint)
[05:03:50] <Shiv__> How do I detect if a binary or a library gets overwritten by a package if everything goes into /usr
[05:04:30] <wesolows> Shiv__: I think pkgadd issues warnings for that.
[05:04:46] <richlowe> If you're building unbundled software, it should go into /opt
[05:04:55] <wesolows> Shiv__: You can be proactive about it by making comparing /var/sadm/install/contents with everything installed.
[05:04:58] <richlowe> if you're not, anyone who screws with the delivered files deserves what they get.
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[05:05:04] <richlowe> if they happen to be PEF people, they deserve it twice.
[05:05:06] <wesolows> This isn't a very good thing, though; it's too Solaris-specific.
[05:05:17] <wesolows> richlowe: True, I suppose I should have mentioned that.
[05:05:25] <wesolows> All of what I said is only for stuff in the WOS.
[05:06:18] <Shiv__> I use pkgtool/pkgbuild for creating packages, am not sure how to plugin the check that you are mentioning...
[05:06:49] <wesolows> Oh, you mean doing it dynamically?  That's wrong.
[05:07:12] <wesolows> If you're delivering something unbundled, you put it in /opt/<COMPANY>productname and you own the namespace.
[05:07:28] <Shiv__> Then? I missed your point.
[05:07:43] <wesolows> If you're delivering to the WOS, you statically do the checks I described (and the packaging team will check it when you file your package RTI - another piece of process brokenness we have right now)
[05:08:11] <wesolows> You don't check for overwriting files in your preinstall script.
[05:08:19] <wesolows> pkgadd will warn the user for you.
[05:08:46] <Gman> Shiv__, what are you trying to do?
[05:08:51] <wesolows> Of course, your package is broken if there are conflicts; as I describe above, you're either delivering into a namespace that you own and control, or you're supposed to have coordinated with the rest of the WOS.
[05:09:36] <Gman> Shiv__, if you're actually trying to propose a component for inclusion into solaris, then best look at JDS or SFW consolidations I'd imagine
[05:09:39] <Gman> (depending on what it is)
[05:10:00] <Shiv__> I have a few spec files (~35). To make sure there are no file clashes, I am putting the output into /usr/local
[05:10:17] <wesolows> spec files?  You mean prototype_*?
[05:10:33] <Gman> wesolows, he's using the pkgbuild packaging tool
[05:10:38] <nachox> spec files are pkgbuilds
[05:10:39] <wesolows> oh...sigh
[05:11:11] <Gman> Shiv__, i'd probably pull down s-f-e and commit them there, talk to laca about getting an account
[05:11:24] <Shiv__> Kind of....pkgtool/pkgbuild (tools used by JDS team). Using the build results these tools create the proto/pkginfo etc and the details are hidden from the user.
[05:11:33] <Shiv__> I already have an account.
[05:11:43] <wesolows> Yeah, there are about 872 things I hate about that system.  I'll shut up now.
[05:12:01] <Gman> :)
[05:12:09] <Shiv__> I want to clean up my spec files, make it compliant with any existing practices and then commit.
[05:12:23] <Gman> Shiv__, get someone to review them
[05:12:44] <Gman> Shiv__, i'm sure you can get help on desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
[05:13:39] <Shiv__> The steps will be cleanup - request for review on desktop discuss - then commit
[05:13:52] <Gman> sounds great
[05:13:52] <Shiv__> I wanted to do it during cleanup
[05:14:06] <Shiv__> so that people who review have less work to do
[05:14:35] <Shiv__> wesolows: Why do you hate the system?
[05:14:47] <Gman> Shiv__, all of s-f-e installs into /usr/bin currently
[05:14:54] <richlowe> Gman: bad, wrong, evil
[05:14:57] <richlowe> Gman: verboten
[05:15:10] <nachox>  it is not open enough
[05:15:13] <jmcp> are we spelling out "s"f"e" so that somebody doesn't notice?
[05:15:14] <Shiv__> Yeah, I know. Will go ahead with it.
[05:15:26] <Shiv__> SFE = spec-files-extra
[05:15:35] <Gman> jmcp, nope
[05:15:40] <richlowe> Gman: interdit, proibito, prohibido
[05:15:41] <richlowe> etc, etc.
[05:15:49] <Gman> richlowe, perhaps, depending on how anal you are about fhs
[05:16:09] <Gman> richlowe, you can obviously change your config to do whatever you like
[05:16:22] <Gman> the tools default to /usr/bin
[05:16:45] <richlowe> Gman: so, I could pull it down and fix the default as the bug it obvious is, right? :)
[05:16:50] * richlowe looks at laca
[05:17:04] <wesolows> Shiv__: First, it makes no sense for people to be told to write nonnative files that will only be translated anyway.  Second, no one reads or reviews any of the code.  Third, no one learns anything about svr4 packaging that way, which only reinforces the bullshit idea that it's "too hard".  Fourth, no one learns to write makefiles and instead relies on broken third-party ones.
[05:17:24] <wesolows> Shiv__: Want me to keep going?  I've got a bunch of technical gripes about it too that I wrote up in an email about 2 years ago.
[05:18:05] <Shiv__> wesolows: I would like to know, can you provide the link to your mail?
[05:18:33] <wesolows> Looking
[05:19:56] <nachox> actually send it to osol-discuss just for fun :)
[05:19:59] <wesolows> hmm, I sent it to sfw_discuss.  Wonder where that went.
[05:20:12] <wesolows> on 17 Aug 2005
[05:20:25] <wesolows> I don't think this ever made it into the wild.
[05:20:44] <wesolows> I'll pastebin it.
[05:21:58] <wesolows> http://pastebin.ca/656476
[05:22:06] <nachox> use rolands ksh script :P
[05:22:14] <wesolows> Number 7 is probably the biggest killer if I had to look at it again today.
[05:23:16] <richlowe> wesolows: so, do you recall why the sfwnv build claims to break if you adjust VERSION?
[05:23:21] <richlowe> (or rather, how/where it does break, perhaps)
[05:23:36] <wesolows> richlowe: I thought it was python or something in there
[05:23:47] <Shiv__> wesolows: Having a look at.
[05:24:14] <wesolows> Shiv__: Consider it "historical background" since all the people with spare cycles have gone ahead and done their own thing without thinking about the problems.
[05:27:06] * Gman doesn't agree with half of it
[05:27:15] <wesolows> I wouldn't really expect you to.
[05:27:36] <wesolows> This is one of those areas where I seem to be tilting at the whole world's windmill.
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[05:29:20] <Shiv__> wesolows: I hope you do not mind engaging with you regarding your mail to get things clear?
[05:29:38] <wesolows> I don't mind, but TBH this isn't a high priority for me.
[05:29:56] <wesolows> And in all fairness I did write it 2 years ago; it's possible that they've made it better since then.
[05:30:10] <Shiv__> It will be a few comment exchanges right now on the IRC chat :)
[05:30:14] <wesolows> ok
[05:31:42] <Shiv__> Point #[1], is a valid point, but I do not consider it a con, (infact often I write my own spec even if one exists for the software, of course I have a look at the original spec).
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[05:31:51] <Shiv__> It is just a fact that we can let pass...
[05:32:00] <nachox> cons 1 and 2 have nothing to do with pkgbuild
[05:32:33] <wesolows> nachox: Remember the context - this was talking about replacing the CCD.  So #2 might not really be relevant.
[05:32:48] <wesolows> In fact, I think it isn't.
[05:33:50] <richlowe> What this (replacing CCD) really needs, is someone with the desire to do it to sit down and come up with an appropriate vehicle to do so, and go all through all the fun little consolidation chartering motions.
[05:34:08] <richlowe> where the multiple meanings of "motion" were fully intended.
[05:34:16] <wesolows> I don't actually think replacing the CCD is useful or necessary.
[05:34:33] <wesolows> If it's useful, we should expand and enhance it rather than directing our energies to sfe or whatever else.
[05:34:46] <wesolows> If it's not useful, I'd like to know why there are 200 clones of it.
[05:34:49] <nachox> the rest is still very valid, specially since there are some guys working in a new packaging system, 4 and 5 are impossible if you do migrate to something else
[05:35:16] <nachox> s/impossible/impossible to evade/
[05:35:17] <Shiv__> Regarding #[2], again will let it pass, since moving to any system would imply migration/learning-curve/etc. Is this ok?
[05:35:23] <wesolows> I think 7 alone is enough to kill pkgbuild.
[05:35:45] <wesolows> Shiv__: Sure.  I said myself that I don't think #2 is all that meaningful without the original context.
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[05:35:51] <nachox> 4 and 6 are important too imho
[05:36:15] <wesolows> Well, 6 and 8 are fixable though serious annoyances.
[05:36:25] <wesolows> 4 is valid for sure.
[05:36:51] <Shiv__> #[3] Is not valid. One just needs to say we use pkgbuild from now on but the specs should adhere to some proper ground rules and #[3] will get addressed by spec authors.
[05:37:17] <laca> okay, let me jump in
[05:37:18] <Gman> the community says otherwise
[05:37:19] <wesolows> Shiv__: I don't agree. #3 is about pkgbuild itself.
[05:37:28] <richlowe> oh dear
[05:37:32] <laca> #3 is improving, cat *.pm *.pl | grep '^#' | wc -l
[05:37:32] <laca> 537
[05:37:33] <wesolows> Shiv__: I have not read it since then, so it may have been nicely documented.
[05:37:36] * Gman seen the results of quite a few number of packages
[05:37:39] <laca> not enough but improving
[05:37:44] <nachox> undocumented existing rules are specially annoying, show stoppers actually
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[05:38:13] <wesolows> Like I said, if I had to write this today, number 7 should be number 1 and the rest would be nits.
[05:38:46] <laca> #4 - there are 28 SFE committer now, not counting Shiv__'s team and the JDS team so there's quite a few people familiar with spec files by now
[05:38:50] <laca> okay, #7
[05:39:00] <laca> i do think it's a feature
[05:39:07] <wesolows> No.  I'm sorry.  It's a bug.
[05:39:15] <Shiv__> wesolows: #[7] I personally would agree as a con.
[05:39:22] <richlowe> frobbing the build machine is never good.
[05:39:27] <richlowe> people share them.
[05:39:28] <wesolows> This is why I can never have a useful conversation with JDS partisans.  We simply don't view software the same way.
[05:39:45] <richlowe> or build multiple sets of change on them.
[05:39:52] <Shiv__> wesolows: I had asked about this on this forum for such a facility :)
[05:39:53] <laca> you can use zones or chroot environments
[05:39:55] <richlowe> ... don't make me pastbin find /builds
[05:39:56] <wesolows> Anyone who thinks number 7 is a feature might as well try telling me we should write all our code in lisp.
[05:40:31] <laca> hmm... lisp... great idea (;
[05:40:37] <Shiv__> wesolows: I mean facility for build dependency without actually installing.
[05:40:50] <jmcp> first we'll have to implement a lisp machine emulator in java .....
[05:41:05] <nachox> jisp
[05:41:08] <nachox> :P
[05:41:11] <wesolows> And how do I keep track of what's changed in those?  have every other step in the debugging process be zoneadm and zonecfg to nuke and rebuild the zone?  Blecch.  We fixed this problem 20 years ago.  That's what the proto area is for.
[05:41:25] <laca> so back to #7, the problem with the SFW build system is that you don't know where the build is _really_ picking up stuff from
[05:41:30] <wesolows> Shiv__: Yes, exactly.  But, so sorry, you can't.
[05:41:41] <Shiv__> #[4] Not valid comment. The tool comes first and then the user base based on how good the tool is.
[05:41:48] <laca> often packages pick up things from /usr instead of the proto area
[05:42:02] <richlowe> packages don't, software shouldn't.
[05:42:07] <richlowe> where it does, that's a bug.
[05:42:10] <richlowe> and it's mostly fucking autoconf
[05:42:15] <laca> i know it's a but
[05:42:16] <wesolows> laca: Bingo.  Because you're being lazy and hoping that a bunch of complicated auto* stuff you never read might possibly work instead of spending 30 minutes and understanding it well enough to just write your own 50-line makefile.
[05:42:17] <laca> but it happens
[05:42:19] <laca> all the time
[05:42:32] <richlowe> if all our software were to forcibly --enable/--disable --with/--without every damn option, it'd be one happy planet.
[05:42:49] <laca> richlowe: no, that's actually not enough
[05:42:54] <millhouse> i'm using ndd to tweak some tcp settings for iscsi performance, but when I reboot the settings revert, how do I make them permanent?
[05:43:03] <laca> not everything can be controlled using --with/without switches
[05:43:03] <richlowe> laca: napalm wouldn't be enough, but it'd be a start.
[05:43:13] <wesolows> It happens because you are lazy and undisciplined.  You care more about getting the new whizzy thing out the door than you care about getting it right.  Please don't take it personally; I don't know whether this is a personal trait or just an organisational one, but it makes me ill.
[05:43:40] <nachox> ok, you  hate autotools
[05:43:41] <jmcp> millhouse: write an init script, or a service
[05:43:44] <Shiv__> Oh god! what have I set in motion....
[05:43:51] <richlowe> see, again the meanings of motion come in handy.
[05:43:57] <wesolows> Shiv__: Yes, I'm afraid you've really pushed one of my buttons.
[05:44:10] <laca> wesolows: okay, so, the JDS team updates ~50 modules to the latest version every 2 weeks
[05:44:13] <wesolows> It's not your fault, though, and it's time for me to go home and have a beer.
[05:44:23] * jmcp goes to get popcorn
[05:44:24] <laca> you don't want to write custom makefiles for all those
[05:44:27] <wesolows> laca: Maybe that's part of the problem.
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[05:44:40] <laca> working with the latest code is the problem?
[05:44:51] <wesolows> laca: Maybe with a little more selectivity and a little less blind random "updating" things would be better and easier to work on.
[05:44:55] <richlowe> You know, you'd think wsdiff would come in handy there.
[05:44:58] <richlowe> (for SFW, too)
[05:45:01] * nachox remembers "why johnny cant build" :)
[05:45:02] <wesolows> Newer does not mean better.
[05:45:05] <richlowe> though SFW runs the ELF checks, doesn't it?
[05:45:11] <richlowe> so such brokenness should stand out there anyway.
[05:45:55] <wesolows> richlowe: SFW does, I think.  JDS surely not.
[05:45:57] <Shiv__> wesolows: One general question I would ask. Do you believe there is a need for a better clean/easy-to-use build infrastructure?
[05:46:04] <richlowe> wesolows: no, JDS doesn't do either.
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[05:46:13] <richlowe> wesolows: and wsdiff won't, because there's no real proto area.
[05:46:18] <wesolows> Shiv__: I believe there's a need for one, yes.  That's what my mail (2 years old this week) was all about. :-)
[05:46:18] <Shiv__> pkgbuild will come later !
[05:46:18] <timeless> wsdiff?
[05:46:29] <nrubsig> http://pastebin.ca/656502
[05:46:36] <wesolows> Shiv__: No one has yet convinced me that ON's strategy is the wrong one.
[05:46:38] <richlowe> timeless: compares the important bits of a proto area with another (in the build, the one prior), and tells you what changed in (theoretically) meaningful ways.
[05:47:05] <richlowe> though right now, it ends up somewhat noisy if VERSION changes.
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[05:47:20] <richlowe> or if you leave it enabled and upgrade the compilers *cough*.
[05:47:29] <Gman> right or wrong, they both result in binary bits being installed into a system
[05:47:38] <wesolows> *gasp*
[05:47:51] <wesolows> So does dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/rdsk/c0t0d0s0
[05:48:02] <laca> richlowe: the jds nightly build compares the pkg prototypes with the latest milestone build and reports the diffs
[05:48:04] <wesolows> ok.  I've really had enough.
[05:48:05] <wesolows> later
[05:48:15] <Shiv__> wesolows: Ok now that you agree, is there an viable existing infrastructure?
[05:48:24] * Gman watches while the rest of the world moves on
[05:48:28] <wesolows> Shiv__: Sure.  I'd have started with the CCD.
[05:48:30] <laca> hmm... maybe i'll have a chance to get some sleep too, then (:
[05:48:31] <Tempt> Ooh, things look like fun here.
[05:48:54] <nachox> Tempt, and wait till they take out the bazoocas
[05:49:01] <richlowe> laca: that doesn't deal with accidental linking and such though.
[05:49:20] <Shiv__> wesolows: CCD?
[05:49:26] <laca> no, we have alanc's check_deps.pl for that
[05:49:29] <richlowe> Companion CD
[05:49:30] <nachox> companion cd
[05:50:09] <Shiv__> wesolows: Will have a look. Is it documented well enough?
[05:50:10] <laca> Shiv__: for your reading pleasure: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/companion-discuss/2006-June/thread.html#873
[05:51:55] <Shiv__> ALL: Thanks to all for the discussion. I'll rest it here.
[05:51:59] <Shiv__> ALL: It is time for me to forget opensolaris and get to my office. Will check the thread & CCD build procedure later in the day...
[05:52:22] * steleman snorts
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[05:57:18] <nachox> i'm off too, i need to sleep :)
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[06:28:50] <sbahra_> Hey guys
[06:29:03] <sbahra_> Is there a cheap way to get thread/lwp id in Solaris?
[06:29:41] <sbahra_> Implementing a portable atomic library + locking library...and want to move away from implementing ownership to be too system-specific.
[06:29:42] <moazamraja> prstat -L ?
[06:29:43] <moazamraja> oh
[06:29:50] <steleman> pthread_self(3C) ?
[06:30:00] <sbahra_> Nope. Can't be specific.
[06:30:09] <sbahra_> aka: Can't even assume pthread.
[06:30:09] <moazamraja> specific to what?
[06:30:14] <richlowe> specific to whom?
[06:30:22] <sbahra_> I can't make use of pthread mechanisms :-)
[06:30:27] <richlowe> why?
[06:30:33] <sbahra_> Because this is a library.
[06:30:41] <sbahra_> Someone can be using something other than pthreads.
[06:30:59] <sbahra_> I *can* use it and it would be a nice way for a PoC, but I'm looking for the library to be very versatile.
[06:31:14] <steleman> _lwp_self() ?
[06:31:17] <sbahra_> Assuming a pthreads environment doesn't make it too versatile though ;]
[06:31:19] <sbahra_> steleman: hmmm
[06:31:32] <steleman> sbahra_: but why are you going down to the level of lwp's ?
[06:31:47] <sbahra_> steleman: lock ownership
[06:32:23] <sbahra_> Ok, _lwp_self will work :-D
[06:33:04] <sbahra_> lwp starts at 1, iirc, right?
[06:33:24] * sbahra_ checks
[06:33:59] <sbahra_> very nice
[06:34:04] <sbahra_> steleman: :D Thanks
[06:34:05] * sbahra_ poofs
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[06:43:04] <richlowe> _lwp_self is *less* portable than the pthread bits.
[06:43:07] <richlowe> so how does that make things better?
[06:44:44] <oninoshiko> not everyone believes in portable code?
[06:45:41] <richlowe> I'm reading "versatile" above to mean "portable"
[06:48:45] <rbrown_> oninoshiko, nope
[06:49:08] <rbrown_> and shouldnt its a common myth that one should always write portable code
[06:49:13] <sbahra_> richlowe: I can write an interface to use _lwp_self directly.
[06:49:44] <sbahra_> richlowe: Which will allow me to create the notion of ownership in a *much* more portable manner (unified interface, but different platform support).
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[06:50:29] <sbahra_> pthread_self *ASSUMES* we are using pthreads, which is not always the case. Some implementations (user-space implementations) will not even return consistent values of pthread_self...or if a person is not using pthreads to begin with but some other threads implementation :-)
[06:51:17] <sbahra_> Versatile is portable...yes. Portable doesn't mean "using same backend", portable in this case is portable to more run-time environments (regardless of underlying thread library).
[06:51:41] <steleman> sbahra_: i thought pthreads were a frontend not a backend
[06:51:49] <sbahra_> Exactly.
[06:52:10] <sbahra_> A frontend people might not be using.
[06:53:04] <sbahra_> Including usage case not supported in this case is user-space threading.
[06:53:17] <sbahra_> But any frontend to the system thread support will work.
[06:53:46] <sbahra_> * Excluding, that is, that will be the case not supported here
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[06:54:29] <sbahra_> But for that I make use of pids + tid, so it'll work actually. Unless the user is just implementing concurrency
[06:55:04] <moazamraja> anyone have experience with writing a 'shell' for an appliance type device? (netapp, netscaler,etc.) ?
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[06:56:23] <sbahra_> moazamraja: For a packet acquisition framework (destined to an appliance), yes.
[06:56:58] <moazamraja> sbahra: any advice on where to start? (pre-existing libraries or frameworks to use) ?
[06:57:11] <moazamraja> in case something already exists which i can modify/plugin too
[06:57:15] <moazamraja> too = to
[06:59:05] <richlowe> moazamraja: readline? :)
[06:59:06] <richlowe> libtecla
[06:59:15] <richlowe> after that, what you do largely depends on your target.
[06:59:26] <moazamraja> hehe
[06:59:27] <richlowe> and, beyond that, what kind of features you want.
[06:59:31] <moazamraja> simple crap
[06:59:33] <moazamraja> very simple
[06:59:37] <moazamraja> ssh in, give user a prompt
[06:59:44] <moazamraja> show them how many live connections are on the box
[06:59:45] <richlowe> I'm yet to find anything that genericly implements the cisco EXEC niceties.
[06:59:46] <richlowe> that makes me sad.
[06:59:51] <richlowe> (I guess they're twenex-isms, in origin, but...)
[06:59:52] <moazamraja> how many processes (that matter to them) are running
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[07:00:07] <richlowe> the abbreviate-anywhere, and ? bits, especially.
[07:01:21] <Doc> readline gives you some bits of that
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[07:03:23] <sbahra_> moazamraja: sorry, coding ;-P
[07:03:47] <sbahra_> moazamraja: Well, my framework was plugin based to begin with :-P
[07:03:57] <sbahra_> moazamraja: but for line editing, I did use GNU readline
[07:04:33] <moazamraja> sbahra: ok...
[07:04:48] * moazamraja grabs the Adv Programming in the Unix env book
[07:05:14] <sbahra_> I recommend you support dynamic commands (aka: make sure it is also plugin-based)
[07:05:25] <sbahra_> It'll obviously help
[07:05:35] <moazamraja> i c..
[07:05:47] <moazamraja> i just want to get a protoype appliance up for now
[07:05:48] <moazamraja> <-- lazy
[07:05:53] <moazamraja> prototype
[07:05:54] <moazamraja> even
[07:05:57] <moazamraja> (see how lazy?!)
[07:06:15] <oninoshiko> i dont know, lazy wouldnt have corrected them
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[07:10:41] <Squegie> why oh why are sun commands so hidden from google?
[07:10:58] <jmcp> Squegie: give an example
[07:11:17] <Squegie> anyone know how to view the status of power supplies in solaris?
[07:11:20] <Squegie> (sunfire box)
[07:11:31] <jmcp> prtdiag -v, perhaps
[07:12:35] <Squegie> ok, i've used prtdiag but let's see if it includes power supply info with -v
[07:13:44] <Squegie> these must be it, under FRU:
[07:13:44] <Squegie> PS0                     okay
[07:13:44] <Squegie> PS1                     okay
[07:13:49] <jmcp> yup
[07:14:44] <Squegie> thank you
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[07:24:52] <moazamraja> power supplies don't show up on x86 :(
[07:25:15] <richlowe> none of the interesting stuff on i2c does, either.
[07:25:20] <richlowe> if you can't get the info from ipmi, you're screwed.
[07:25:28] <richlowe> (do we even pull it from ipmi and present it tastefully yet?)
[07:25:33] <richlowe> either way, jmcp's fault, on the i2c count.
[07:25:51] * jmcp gives richlowe the finger
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[07:26:07] <richlowe> jmcp: hey, you were going to common-ize the i2c bits.
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[07:26:11] * steleman is shocked. *shocked*!!
[07:26:13] <richlowe> jmcp: but oh no, you had to go and get a decent job.
[07:26:19] <richlowe> jmcp: selfish, is what I call it! ;)
[07:26:34] <jmcp> yeah .... clearly
[07:26:37] <jmcp> :-P
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[07:30:02] <moazamraja> jcmp: full-time, back@sun?
[07:30:05] <moazamraja> or...elsewhere/
[07:30:13] <moazamraja> (i know I've asked you this before, and you've answered)
[07:30:20] <moazamraja> but..., i'm old and have a short memory :(
[07:30:33] <jmcp> moazamraja: still contracting, but for Sun
[07:31:38] <moazamraja> kewl
[07:31:51] <moazamraja> sometimes i wonder if contracting for sun is better than being a full-time employee
[07:32:18] <jmcp> yeah, sometimes I think it is
[07:32:27] <jmcp> I'd prefer the stability though
[07:32:59] <moazamraja> wait...are we talking about Sun?
[07:33:00] <moazamraja> ;)
[07:33:02] <richlowe> doesn't seem to be much stability either way, these days.
[07:33:03] <moazamraja> ok ok, that was mean.
[07:33:06] <moazamraja> :P
[07:33:11] <jmcp> true, true
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[07:41:29] <sbahra_> Hrm
[07:41:38] <sbahra_> Cisco doesn't offer a free download of the VPN client for Solaris?
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[07:49:58] <blueandwhiteg3> I am recalling correctly that if one replaces some members of a raidz array, the capacity can grow to equal that of the smallest drive?
[07:51:21] <Tpenta> thanks gman
[07:55:27] <nikinana> /cs list *belenix*
[07:55:32] <nikinana> /cs
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[07:57:56] <blueandwhiteg3> raidz can be removed from a zpool, thereby shrinking it, correct?
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[08:01:18] <gnut> hi all
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[08:12:39] <e^ipi> ugh, I have a headache
[08:12:44] <LeftWing> Tpenta: Jonathan?
[08:13:02] <Tpenta> did i mistype your name?\
[08:13:06] <LeftWing> It would appear thus!
[08:13:09] <Tpenta> sorry if i did, damned tired
[08:13:11] <LeftWing> =)
[08:13:20] <Tempt> heh.
[08:13:27] <Tempt> LeftWing: Hey Jonathan.
[08:13:33] <Tempt> LeftWing: How's the new identity panning out?
[08:13:34] <LeftWing> Tempt: Hey Andrea.
[08:13:38] <LeftWing> Not bad.
[08:14:12] <Tpenta> o god, i *am* tired, sory josh
[08:14:19] <LeftWing> Haha, all good.
[08:14:20] * Tpenta will delete and repost ;)
[08:14:48] <jmcp> Tpenta: have you been able to view the niagara-2 videos off sun.com?
[08:14:57] <LeftWing> Tpenta: We have a sysadmin here now who's quite taken with rc, actually.
[08:14:58] <Tpenta> the launch stuff
[08:15:07] <jmcp> Tpenta: yeah
[08:15:10] <Tpenta> didnt need to; i was on second life when it was happenning
[08:15:16] * jmcp grumble
[08:15:17] <Tempt> Second Life.
[08:15:17] <jmcp> s
[08:15:18] <Tempt> FFS.
[08:15:21] <Tpenta> but watching thru the webcast with realplay
[08:16:06] <e^ipi> Tempt: at least I'm not the only one who thinks it's fscking ridiculous that even Sun has bought in to that silly thing
[08:16:18] <LeftWing> haha
[08:16:23] <Tempt> Come on.
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[08:16:34] <Tempt> It's a stupid MMO for the bored with too much spared change.
[08:16:38] <Tpenta> ok leftwing, fixed
[08:16:45] <LeftWing> Tpenta: tah.
[08:16:51] <Tempt> And now that every one is is getting *OUT* of it, Sun is getting in.
[08:16:56] * Tpenta can't believe he did that
[08:16:56] <Tempt> A bit behind the curve there.
[08:17:12] <Tpenta> actually Sun has been in it for some time, not just getting in
[08:17:22] <Tempt> Meh.
[08:17:24] <Tpenta> if you think that sun is just getting in, you are behind the times
[08:17:32] <LeftWing> Tempt: It is what you make of it -- if Sun want to use it as a collaborative or communicative tool, then why not?
[08:17:35] <Tempt> Obviously I don't spend enough time in "Second Life"
[08:17:40] <Tpenta> :)
[08:17:43] <Tempt> Frankly, my First Life is entertaining enough
[08:17:53] <Tpenta> what they have set up wityh the sun pavillion is relatively impressive
[08:18:06] <Tempt> I'm sure Linden Labs were most happy to take Sun's money.
[08:18:12] <purserj> ah second life, where else can you have an interview interrupted by a flock of flying penii
[08:18:21] <oninoshiko> i dont know about entertaining, but more excitement that i care to think about
[08:18:30] <Tempt> purserj: Or a deluge of golden rings?
[08:18:48] <Tpenta> probably would not have happened as I noticed we had a couple of Lindens present at the event too ;)
[08:19:01] <blueandwhiteg3> I am so thankful for zfs.... it just detected and fixed 3 blocks of silent data corruption
[08:19:11] <Tpenta> woohoo
[08:19:59] <oninoshiko> you think thats fun... i temporarily declared one of my raidz disks to be a ufs, for the perpose of setting up "boot from zfs"
[08:20:20] <oninoshiko> now THAT was fun
[08:20:31] <blueandwhiteg3> it makes me really wonder how often previous drives were silently corrupting data
[08:20:46] <blueandwhiteg3> oninoshiko: do you really need to boot from zfs?
[08:20:47] <oninoshiko> more often then you want to know
[08:21:14] <blueandwhiteg3> can i remove raidz arrays from a zpool and have it shrink?
[08:21:38] <oninoshiko> do you want that corruption in random exicutables?
[08:21:48] <trede> is there any tentative eta for admin tools in nevada ?
[08:22:18] <blueandwhiteg3> oninoshiko: i guess that's a good point
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[08:22:39] <blueandwhiteg3> though since i kind of look at my actual solaris install as being replaceable, it's not such a concern for me
[08:22:55] <blueandwhiteg3> i suppose i should investigate mirroring my boot drive with zfs at some point
[08:23:54] <oninoshiko> mine is an experimental setup, for holding large numbers of clients' data
[08:24:42] * oninoshiko doesn't want 20 people to suddenly loose their webservers...
[08:29:36] <e^ipi> yeah, then they'd look like Sun
[08:30:16] <e^ipi> that was a silly week
[08:30:37] <oninoshiko> they seem to have been better lately... or maybe im just not accessing their servers as much
[08:31:10] <e^ipi> oninoshiko: their colo host went down twice in a week
[08:31:35] <e^ipi> *.sun.com and *.opensolaris.org
[08:32:23] <moazamraja> wasn't that when a whole bunch of companies sites went down
[08:32:32] <e^ipi> yes
[08:32:33] <moazamraja> because of a power outage in san francisco
[08:32:35] <oninoshiko> yeah... that was that a number of high-profile sites were down
[08:32:44] <oninoshiko> that week*
[08:32:47] <moazamraja> good ol' PG&E
[08:33:37] <Tempt> And then slashdot linked everything to add load to what was left
[08:33:46] <Tempt> talk about throwing a bucket of water on a drowning man.
[08:36:18] <moazamraja> good ol /.
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[08:52:23] <oninoshiko> atleast some sites have the decency to just mirror the target of their non-but-seeming-wrath
[08:53:30] <oninoshiko> of course if people would realize that neither apache nor IIS are good webservers...
[08:54:22] <e^ipi> anyone know if weiss' "algorithms and data structures" is as good as sedgewick?
[08:55:00] <trygvis> I haven't read sedgewick but I really liked weiss' book and I've read a few books
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[08:57:29] <e^ipi> fair enough
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[09:04:05] <moazamraja> weiss, i had him for one class :P
[09:04:22] <moazamraja> or..did I.., maybe i just sat in his class but never actually registered
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[09:05:03] <e^ipi> i did that a bunch of times
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[09:06:00] <cmihai> Morning
[09:07:04] <moazamraja> e^ipi: in weiss's class?!
[09:07:10] <moazamraja> u a FIU person also?
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[09:07:16] <e^ipi> moazamraja: no, no... i meant sit in classes
[09:07:20] <moazamraja> oh :P
[09:07:35] <moazamraja> i couldnt believe that our lil po-dunk univ had 3-4 'famous' profs
[09:07:41] <moazamraja> who woulda thunk it
[09:08:31] <noyb> I have kerberos setup and it allows ssh from a client to the kdc host, but not kdc to client host.  If need help fixing this (even if you're only mildly familiar with krb5).  :)
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[09:22:57] <palowoda> Hmm, are there 8 floating point units in a T2?
[09:23:21] <moazamraja> yeah
[09:23:26] <moazamraja> 1 per core
[09:23:52] <palowoda> Impressive chip for only 999.99.
[09:24:20] <quasi> very impressive
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[09:26:55] <palowoda> I managed to watch the T2 presentation online and the guy with the "When are there going to be laptops with the chip" hit the nail.  It nice to know that Johnathon is targeting the consumer marketplace now.
[09:28:10] <palowoda> I wonder if Fry's Electronics are going to carry them.
[09:28:38] <Bartman007> palowoda: "Would you like to put that on your Fry's card?"
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[09:28:50] <sbahra> Why the hell would you put it on a laptop? :-P
[09:28:55] <sbahra> T2 is not fit for general purpose computing
[09:29:06] * quasi would settle for a T2 based workstation
[09:29:07] <sbahra> hmm
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[09:29:09] <sbahra> actually
[09:29:14] <mritun_> gah, hello folks
[09:29:15] <sbahra> i guess for gui-driven desktop it would be nice
[09:29:24] <mritun_> why do people hate CDE so much ?
[09:29:27] <palowoda> Bartman007:  God they ask me that everytime.  I can never forgive Fry's for build a store 1/2 mile from me.
[09:29:37] <kaiwai> mritun_: because it isn't seen as 'cool' and 'modern'
[09:29:41] <quasi> mritun_: it doesn't look enough like windows
[09:29:57] <Bartman007> palowoda: that was my point, I try to avoid them whenever possible because of their business practices.
[09:29:58] <kaiwai> mritun_: for me, I prefer the IRIX desktop, gives me warm fuzzy feelings about the good old Amiga days
[09:29:58] <mritun_> and I guess because : It ACTUALLY WORKS !
[09:30:03] <quasi> mritun_: and isn't slow and bloated enough to make people feel at home
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[09:30:34] <palowoda> Bartman007:  That is why Sun is opening their own Fry's stores.  I've read it in the paper.
[09:30:37] <mritun_> I'm hearing now and then that it'd be removed
[09:30:50] <mritun_> can anyone hazard a guess, which build ?
[09:31:00] <kaiwai> mritun_: yeah, apparently along with Xsun, once the sparc people get their shit together
[09:31:17] <mritun_> hmm
[09:31:20] <kaiwai> mritun_: no date has been given, as far as I've seen on the mailing lists
[09:31:46] <mritun_> so any plans to basically tar that CDE up and stash it to use with future releases
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[09:32:03] <mritun_> because I guess, they won't be breaking binary compatibility for a long time to come
[09:32:12] <mritun_> so it should be ok for a decade or so
[09:33:09] <palowoda> mritun_: Give me root access to your machine I'll remove it for you.
[09:33:25] <mritun_> root : root
[09:33:30] <mritun_> feel free
[09:33:37] <mritun_> it's in a VM :-P
[09:34:05] <mritun_> IP: 192.168.1.17
[09:34:11] <mritun_> there ya go
[09:34:28] <palowoda> Now run along and be a good little gnomer. :)
[09:34:44] <mritun_> eh
[09:35:34] <kaiwai> in a VM?
[09:35:38] <kaiwai> what do you run under it?
[09:36:00] <kaiwai> dear god
[09:36:03] <kaiwai> Windows XP
[09:36:14] <mritun_> yeah
[09:36:24] <mritun_> too bad, the DVD drive is broken
[09:36:34] <kaiwai> ok *kaiwai gets his exorcism kit* this might take some time
[09:36:37] <mritun_> and I'm too lazy to setup jumpstart
[09:37:01] <mritun_> kaiwai: don't bother
[09:37:17] <kaiwai> lol
[09:37:24] <mritun_> You'd be glad to know that the home server runs snv exclusively
[09:37:41] <kaiwai> same here
[09:37:54] <mritun_> hmm
[09:37:57] <kaiwai> my brother would run it if he could get his engineering software working on it
[09:38:27] <mritun_> if the sw is available for linux, may be he could try with linux brandz
[09:38:32] <kaiwai> Maple, Matlab, Solidworks etc. etc.
[09:38:43] <mritun_> all available for linux and solaris
[09:38:44] <kaiwai> *shudder* no hackware please :-(
[09:39:03] <mritun_> though I doubt they're for solaris x86
[09:39:06] <kaiwai> mritun_: nope, none of them are available on solaris
[09:39:11] <mritun_> for sparc I'm sure!
[09:39:18] <mritun_> eh
[09:39:20] <kaiwai> oh, every bloody thing is available for sparc
[09:39:24] <mritun_> used Maple for 3 yrs in univ
[09:39:33] <mritun_> on Ultra 10
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[09:39:36] <kaiwai> thats almost a damn assurance
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[09:39:49] <kaiwai> mritun_: the SGI O2's at polytech were nice :)
[09:40:11] <mritun_> I've worked on an IRIX
[09:40:23] <kaiwai> one thing SGi did do well, their cases were sexy
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[09:40:28] <mritun_> I think the machine was an indigo
[09:41:21] <palowoda> You can get them for 5 dolla on Ebay these days.
[09:41:22] * mritun_ didn't know much about the machines initially... but damn... nothing else had bigger monitors :-P
[09:42:07] <kaiwai> hmm, there is even openoffice.org for irix
[09:42:35] <mritun_> palowoda: ah, I was thinking about getting one, when the univ auctions them off
[09:43:00] <mritun_> but my plan was busted when they told me that they plan on using them till they break
[09:43:12] <mritun_> and those things run for bloody ages
[09:43:17] <Chipdancer> how do you mount an iso image under solaris?  (ala -t loop or similar)
[09:43:18] <palowoda> So what is you plan now?
[09:43:31] <mritun_> nothing
[09:43:42] <mritun_> I'm in India... no ebay joy for me
[09:43:43] <mritun_> :-/
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[09:43:51] <mritun_> Chipdancer: man lofs
[09:43:56] <Chipdancer> mritun_: yep, have been reading
[09:44:07] <Chipdancer> but it it seems a little backwards
[09:44:22] <mritun_> oh don't worry about that
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[09:44:29] <kaiwai> hmm, the temptation to get an O2
[09:44:33] <mritun_> its others that are actually backwards
[09:44:51] <mritun_> Solaris way is the true unix way as gods intended (TM)
[09:45:05] <mritun_> kaiwai: forget it
[09:45:21] <kaiwai> mritun_: why forget it?
[09:45:38] <seanmcg> Chipdancer: man lofiadm; lofiadm -a /path/to/iso; mount -F hsfs /dev/lofi/X /mnt/point; where X is returned from lofiadm
[09:45:39] <mritun_> I'm just hoping Santa to drop a T2 server in my sockings this christmas
[09:45:42] <mritun_> :D
[09:45:53] <Chipdancer> seanmcg: thanks.. I had a feeling lofiadm was needed somewhere
[09:45:56] <kaiwai> I thought I might donate it to the "sun programmers needing to learn how to make Unix suck less' foundation
[09:46:24] <mritun_> kaiwai: Apple folks are already there
[09:46:46] <Chipdancer> seanmcg: lofiadm could not map file.... device busy
[09:47:04] <Chipdancer> umm, oh.. kay... it's already in there...
[09:47:10] <kaiwai> nice way to get around the SGI licence claus; give away the IRIX cd's with an 'official SGI computer screw' - http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-SGI-IRIX-Set-6-5-29-overlays-OS-upgrade-6-CDs-Screw_W0QQitemZ300140026998QQihZ020QQcategoryZ11223QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[09:47:13] <mritun_> and I doubt if anyone would mind a MacPro donated for teaching how to make unix suck less
[09:47:16] <Chipdancer> perhaps my earlier attempt automatically created it as such
[09:47:31] <mritun_> :D
[09:47:35] <kaiwai> mritun_: Apple's still sucks; over priced under performing hardware
[09:47:41] <seanmcg> Chipdancer: lofiadm cmd on its own would tell you all the lofi's already on the system
[09:47:44] <mritun_> yeah yeah
[09:47:50] <Chipdancer> seanmcg: yeah, found it and it's now mounted - thanks
[09:47:52] <mritun_> but the OS is actually usable
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[09:48:41] <mritun_> any idea about when the T2 based machines would be out ?
[09:48:56] <palowoda> In India?
[09:48:57] <tsoome> at the end of 2007
[09:48:58] <mritun_> I guess they're named T5xxx
[09:49:01] <kaiwai> mritun_: depends on how one defines usable
[09:49:19] <rootard> Hi there, does anyone know if it's possible to specify an alternate init binary from boot?
[09:49:31] <kaiwai> mritun_: thats assuming it doesn't get taxed into the ground
[09:49:40] <kaiwai> (for the T2 coming into india)
[09:49:51] <mritun_> rootard: don't think it'd be of any help. init does practially nothing in solaris 10 and up
[09:50:05] <mritun_> oh yep
[09:50:14] <renihs> maybe init=/bin/ksh? :p dunno
[09:50:27] <mritun_> but we're contemplating getting one through startup essentials program
[09:50:37] <mritun_> guess that should do some wonders to prices
[09:50:42] <rootard> Yeah, that's what I was thinking... it's more of an exercise really.
[09:50:55] <kaiwai> mritun_: true, and if you're an essential startup to Sun, you might get bought out ;)
[09:51:19] <mritun_> haha
[09:51:22] <rootard> renihs: that works under linux, I don't see any references on google to such an option though ;)
[09:51:32] <mritun_> don't think so... Sun might not be interesting in doing what we do
[09:51:45] <mritun_> interested*
[09:52:17] <kaiwai> mritun_: the worlds kinkiest porn site?
[09:52:28] <mritun_> but who knows... and anyways startups are dime a dozen these days
[09:52:34] <mritun_> :D
[09:52:55] <mritun_> (for large values for dime.. especially if they're making no money)
[09:53:14] <mritun_> kaiwai: I saw that coming :-/
[09:53:48] <kaiwai> hey, its one business that keeps growing - in more than one way; whether its a recession, depression or boom, people want porn
[09:54:06] <mritun_> very true
[09:54:30] <mritun_> the underpinning of the internet(TM)
[09:55:05] <mritun_> actually I think the final argument against the net neutrality thing would be that
[09:55:17] <mritun_> the ISPs would need to collect money from porn sites
[09:55:41] <mritun_> and how nice it'd look on AT&Ts annual report:
[09:56:05] <mritun_> Our porn revenues were up 50% last year on the back of growing demand from users
[09:56:20] <rootard> Second oddball question: does opensolaris support zfs root with a raidz/raidz2 pool?
[09:56:31] <purserj> AT&T: Porn makes us very happy
[09:56:33] <mritun_> rootard: not exactly
[09:56:50] <kaiwai> mritun_: na, it would be labeled 'alternative media interests' :)
[09:56:57] <mritun_> but there are some putbacks in line for making that happen, but not now
[09:57:12] <rootard> I thought it might not. I noticed that booting off a mirrored zpool only accessed the primary disk for a while during the boot process.
[09:57:23] <mritun_> rootard: exactly.
[09:57:36] <mritun_> GRUB has no "knowledge" of zfs per se
[09:57:48] <rootard> mritun_: k, thanks :)
[09:57:49] <mritun_> it has been hacked to somehow find the file there
[09:58:03] <mritun_> so it only works on mirrored vdevs
[09:58:26] <rootard> mritun: yeah, I accidentally installed grub on the secondary disk in an x4100. I swapped the disks after it did not boot and everything worked fine :)
[09:58:31] <rootard> it was pretty cool.
[09:58:34] <mritun_> looking across many disks for a file, might be too much to ask to do in 512 bytes :P
[09:58:45] <rootard> haha, yeah... I understand.
[10:00:06] <mritun_> kaiwai: you bet! and it'd be dissected by WSJ and NYT in detail... I reckon
[10:00:08] <rootard> The grub interaction does seem a bit hacked still. I'm happy when it works but scared when it doesn't.
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[10:00:13] <rootard> anyway, goodnight
[10:00:18] <rootard> and thanks again.
[10:00:19] <mritun_> g'nite rootard
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[10:00:23] <kaiwai> mritun_: the religious right nuts would have a field day though :P
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[10:00:31] <mritun_> lol
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[10:00:38] <mritun_> kaiwai: way to hit it on the head
[10:00:48] <mritun_> I think that would seal the argument pretty quick
[10:01:27] <kaiwai> I'm sure you've seen your fair share of religious nuts over there as well
[10:01:45] <kaiwai> geeze, remember that riot over a lesbian scene in a movie in India?
[10:01:53] <mritun_> kaiwai: who hasn't
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[10:02:06] <mritun_> kaiwai: as well
[10:02:32] <mritun_> well, people here are sensitive over trivial issues, and insensitive over biggr ones :P
[10:02:43] <mritun_> a kiss scene might shed blood on streets
[10:02:44] <kaiwai> yeah, ???????? being the biggest nuts :P
[10:02:56] <mritun_> kaiwai: Ssshh
[10:03:00] <mritun_> :P
[10:03:23] <mritun_> and bomb blasts get coverage for half a day
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[10:03:43] <kaiwai> well thanks to the saudi regeme ???????? give all muslims a bad name
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[10:04:31] <mritun_> well, non tolerance doesn't last long...
[10:04:54] <Gekkko> :o
[10:04:55] <mritun_> Indians have felt the pain for a long time... and no one paid head when we warned
[10:04:58] <Gekkko> the second part just finished
[10:04:59] <Gekkko> woo.
[10:05:24] <mritun_> in UN people were debating if what is happening in Kashmir is a "freedom struggle" or "terrorism"
[10:05:32] <mritun_> we were cringing for years
[10:06:04] <mritun_> now suddenly, even popping a baloon in airplane is "terrorism"
[10:06:10] <kaiwai> the problem is that if kashmir did gain independence it would most likely side with Pakistan
[10:06:13] <mritun_> it's incredible !!!
[10:06:57] <mritun_> kaiwai: well, they already know what the "azad kashmir" is doing with its "independence"
[10:07:18] <kaiwai> :P
[10:07:22] <mritun_> (that is known as "pakistan occupied kashmir" otherwise"
[10:07:23] <mritun_> )
[10:07:41] <kaiwai> I personally think all should just chill out :)
[10:08:05] <mritun_> yep
[10:08:17] <mritun_> but I don't have much faith left in human race
[10:08:23] <Gekkko> gah I hate the Sun Downloads section
[10:08:24] <Gekkko> >_>
[10:08:32] <mritun_> (it hit a new low when I discovered darwnawards.com)
[10:08:34] <mritun_> gah
[10:08:43] <mritun_> darwinawards.com *
[10:08:54] <kaiwai> mritun_: join the club; one doesn't need to look far to see stupidity; my country is a prime example
[10:09:03] <kaiwai> Gekkko: whats wrong with the sun downloads section?
[10:09:11] <mritun_> Gekkko: you have our sympathy... battle it out matey :P
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[10:09:16] <Gekkko> I don't like it's layout and the fact you have to relog in and out
[10:09:16] <Gekkko> >_>
[10:09:26] <Gekkko> it's so... msdos.
[10:09:36] <Gekkko> all I want is the md5 >_>
[10:10:10] <Gekkko> OMG YES
[10:10:11] <mritun_> ... and it uses *several* subdomains
[10:10:12] <kaiwai> damn, Studio 12 patches released
[10:10:15] <Gekkko> they hashed fine!
[10:10:48] <Gekkko> all 3 are working
[10:10:49] <mritun_> password savers don't work :P
[10:10:49] <Gekkko> thank sweet jesus,
[10:10:49] <mritun_> wow
[10:10:49] <mritun_> Studio 12 patches
[10:10:50] <mritun_> where ?
[10:11:32] <kaiwai> http://developers.sun.com/sunstudio/downloads/patches/ss12_patches.jsp
[10:11:39] <moazamraja> finally.
[10:11:46] <Gekkko> lol I love the threatening trademark comment when you type unzip
[10:11:47] <Gekkko> hehe
[10:11:48] <kaiwai> I tend to trip over these things
[10:12:08] <Gekkko> and then it's in French incase you weren't clear.
[10:12:21] <Gekkko> hmm
[10:12:27] <Gekkko> I need to look up how to underclock
[10:12:41] <Gekkko> I want to tone my 3ghz P4 down to about 500mhz when I'm not using it
[10:12:55] <Gekkko> using it being the PC.
[10:13:22] <kaiwai> Gekkko: does it support speedstep?
[10:13:32] <Gekkko> probably not.
[10:13:40] <kaiwai> hmm, you're buggered then :P
[10:13:58] <moazamraja> mritun_: if you're going to complain about what 'Azad Kashmir' is doing (or not) with it's freedom, then please answer WTF India is doing with it's freedom from the Brits
[10:14:42] <mritun_> OMG
[10:14:45] <kaiwai> its doing nothing :P
[10:14:54] <Gekkko> how can I find out Kaiba
[10:14:57] <Gekkko> Kaiba:
[10:14:59] <Gekkko> kaiwai!!!
[10:15:01] <mritun_> moazamraja: may be *actually* running a democracy ?
[10:15:24] <kaiwai> kaiwai: you'll need to have a look Intel documentation on it
[10:15:31] <moazamraja> yeah, i'm sure the 'under' classes feel that way
[10:15:42] <mritun_> hmm, these SS12 patches would install with patchadd, right ?
[10:15:46] <kaiwai> moazamraja: you mean the castes?
[10:15:50] <moazamraja> let's be realistic, 1947 and none of these countries have done jack shit
[10:15:53] <kaiwai> mritun_: yeap
[10:16:17] <Gekkko> hmm - cat sol-nv-b69-x86-dvd-iso-a.iso cat sol-nv-b69-x86-dvd-iso-b.iso cat sol-nv-b69-x86-dvd-iso-c.iso > cat sol-nv-b69-x86-dvd.iso
[10:16:20] <Gekkko> does that look right?
[10:16:25] <kaiwai> moazamraja: isn't that just stating the obvious?
[10:16:26] <trygvis> yep
[10:16:27] <Cyrille> the last cat doesn't
[10:16:28] <Tempt> no
[10:16:30] * mritun_ agrees.. none of the countries have done anything... just voted people in and out
[10:16:34] <Tempt> too many cats to herd
[10:16:38] <Cyrille> actually most of them don't
[10:16:41] <mritun_> oh and we actually increased our GDP, btw :P
[10:16:44] <Gekkko> so
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[10:16:48] <Gekkko> what do I do
[10:16:48] <Gekkko> lol
[10:16:49] <Tempt> One cat online
[10:16:50] <moazamraja> i understand sub-continent democracy, and trust me, it is quite a different thing than what the west thinks of as democracy
[10:16:59] <Tempt> cat file1 file2 file3 >my_big_file
[10:17:00] <Gekkko> yay instructions found them
[10:17:01] <Tempt> or
[10:17:15] <moazamraja> how long does it take for worldwide DNS caches to update? damnit
[10:17:17] <Gekkko> my way was right
[10:17:23] <Tempt> read the manpage for the most basic unix tool of all time ...
[10:17:29] <moazamraja> ppl are still accessing the old IP of my site
[10:17:29] <Cyrille> rm?
[10:17:33] <Gekkko> I was right >_>
[10:17:45] <mritun_> kaiwai: I remember the SS12 install was just a tarball with an installer
[10:17:46] <palowoda> Gekkko: cat sol-nv-b69-x86-dvd-iso[a-c] > diskimage.iso
[10:18:01] <mritun_> would it have made appropiate changes to package def for patchadd ?
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[10:18:18] <Cyrille> .iso
[10:18:19] <kaiwai> mritun_: the installer is just one grand pkgadd
[10:18:32] <kaiwai> patchadd will work
[10:18:33] <moazamraja> uhh...can someone from australia and/or asia do a NSlookup for me?
[10:18:38] <Tempt> sure
[10:18:42] <Tempt> go for it
[10:18:46] <mritun_> oh thaks... I thought I'd have to clean everything when I installed it
[10:18:57] <Tempt> moazamraja: address?
[10:19:36] <moazamraja> www.unixville.com
[10:19:37] <tsoome> moazamraja: you can specify an name server for nslookup;)
[10:19:39] <Gekkko> I'm going to nuke Arch Linux woo.
[10:19:42] <moazamraja> and   unixville.com
[10:19:56] <moazamraja> tsoome: ok...so give me a couple of APAC name servers...
[10:20:08] <Tempt> www.unixville.com       canonical name = unixville.com.
[10:20:14] <Tempt> Address: 208.64.57.102
[10:20:21] <moazamraja> ok, that's the new IP...good
[10:20:39] <tsoome> just get server list (ns) for .au? :)
[10:20:40] <mritun_> Gekkko: good luck ;)
[10:20:47] <Tempt> That's on my nameserver. In my office.
[10:20:48] <Gekkko> :)
[10:20:51] <Tempt> Nice domain.
[10:21:10] <moazamraja> thx
[10:21:17] <moazamraja> and my license plate ;)
[10:21:18] <killers> helo. i've tried to build piece of OpenSolaris (X stuff) on SXDE 55 (readme says it's supported host). i've first tried doing this with what's installed by default (/usr/ccs/bin), and it was even building something -- it appears font-related stuff was built..
[10:21:30] <Tempt> unix vanity plate
[10:21:31] <Tempt> oh noes.
[10:21:43] <moazamraja> yuhp, i had to go all out
[10:21:57] <kaiwai> killers: have you installed  Sun Studio 11?
[10:22:01] <killers> however, i've then tried to use JDS CBE as recommended, and it seems buildfiles are completely greek to it. any ideas wtf?
[10:22:06] <Tempt> It's practically an E10K on a chip, only less parts and hence less failure points;
[10:22:07] <Gekkko> http://apcmag.com/6954/google_launches_youtube_style_embeddable_maps
[10:22:19] <Gekkko> oh and SP3 for XP is coming >_>
[10:22:20] <Tempt> That's a quote I wouldn't want to defend with benchmarks
[10:22:28] <moazamraja> Tempt: luckily, I don't have to :)
[10:22:42] <moazamraja> and that ever so important word in the middle, "practically" ;)
[10:22:49] <Tempt> You realise how many CPUs in a e10k?
[10:22:50] <Tempt> :)
[10:22:52] <kaiwai> *shrugs* he doesn't want help
[10:22:53] <moazamraja> 64
[10:22:59] <Tempt> Yes.
[10:23:00] <kaiwai> alot of cpus :)
[10:23:09] <Tempt> That's a long way from 8 cores to 64 sockets.
[10:23:11] <moazamraja> i've worked on quite a few E10k/E15ks
[10:23:16] <Tempt> Yep.
[10:23:18] <moazamraja> Tempt: slow cpus ;)
[10:23:23] <moazamraja> and....
[10:23:34] <moazamraja> an E10k is prohibitively expensive to run nowadays
[10:23:43] <Tempt> I know.
[10:23:48] <moazamraja> even E15Ks are getting there, another year or so
[10:23:52] <Tempt> I wish I had free power. If I did, I'd have a e10k running.
[10:24:04] <moazamraja> you'd have free heat then.
[10:24:07] <jmcp> Tempt: in this channel, we obey the laws of physics!
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[10:24:24] <palowoda> But if your asked about a question on spec float rates the answer is 64.
[10:24:39] <Tempt> jmcp: Or we jack power from our neighbours? :)
[10:24:46] <jmcp> that'll work, too
[10:24:50] <mritun_> well, Rock would be a game changing CPU (when it comes)
[10:24:56] <Tempt> If.
[10:24:59] <Tempt> Not when, if.
[10:25:07] <moazamraja> i've had amazingly good experiences putting even low-end T1000 units to replace a stack of (other-hardware/OS) webservers
[10:25:11] <mritun_> yeah right.
[10:25:17] <Tempt> Sun tends to play fast and loose with CPU roadmaps
[10:25:26] <kaiwai> IIRC isn't rock not only multicore but SMP capable as well?
[10:25:27] <jmcp> when JS was in Sydney a few years back, I suggested to him that a laptop with some sort of Niagara at its heart would be a fantastic product to have
[10:25:35] <jmcp> yes
[10:25:42] <mritun_> T2 would look pretty decent for HPC setups
[10:25:48] <kaiwai> jmcp: a niagra laptop; very spiffy :)
[10:25:49] <Tempt> jmcp: Did you get a response?
[10:25:55] <palowoda> The laptop question on T2 came up in the video.
[10:26:05] <Tpenta> and he did not dismiss it
[10:26:12] <moazamraja> never gonna happen :/
[10:26:17] <kaiwai> a low cost SPARC based laptop would be nice though
[10:26:20] <moazamraja> he was being polite, i'm sure
[10:26:24] <jmcp> Tempt: he didn't diss the idea, in fact he said would be quite cool
[10:26:25] <mritun_> well I think so
[10:26:28] <jmcp> quote unquote
[10:26:29] <Tempt> A T2 laptop has a very small market
[10:26:30] <mritun_> T2 is basically a SoC
[10:26:46] <mritun_> so it shouldn't be hard to put one in a laptop
[10:27:01] <mritun_> actually practically all glue logic would be the risers and connectors
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[10:27:08] <mritun_> everything is on chip anyways
[10:27:11] <kaiwai> mritun_: the price wouldbe prohibitive though
[10:27:14] <Tempt> A big SPARC machine with 128Gb of RAM and a pair of big multithreaded CPUs for under $10k would be "cool" as well.
[10:27:23] <moazamraja> $5k.
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[10:27:27] <moazamraja> ;)
[10:27:28] <mritun_> kaiwai: not sure actually
[10:27:31] <jmcp> as long as I could con my manager into getting me one, sure
[10:27:32] <mritun_> but shouldn't cost a bomb
[10:27:43] <mritun_> I guess if yields are ok, the prices wouldbe fine
[10:27:46] <kaiwai> jmcp: a manager spending money?
[10:27:52] <Tempt> A machine like the T1000 would be cheap enough for everyone to have one
[10:28:02] <Tempt> By everyone, I mean all UNIX admins.
[10:28:03] <jmcp> kaiwai: it's been known to happen
[10:28:11] <Tempt> (the only people who count)
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[10:28:34] <Tempt> Start chopping up the Dull market.
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[10:28:41] <kaiwai> jmcp: how accessible purchaseing CPU's off sun?
[10:28:42] * mritun_ thinks it should be a piece of cake to make an ultraportable out of a T2
[10:28:45] <moazamraja> oh...
[10:28:48] <moazamraja> speaking of hardware
[10:29:00] <moazamraja> i cancelled my Dell Quad-Core machine order this morning
[10:29:04] <jmcp> kaiwai: just cpus? no idea
[10:29:05] <moazamraja> the one i ordered over the weekend
[10:29:06] <jmcp> moazamraja: :-D
[10:29:07] <Tempt> Good work.
[10:29:09] <jmcp> in favour of what?
[10:29:15] <mritun_> jmcp: actually should be easier for T2
[10:29:19] <Tempt> A sandwich toaster
[10:29:19] <moazamraja> i was telling a friend of mine how great of a deal i got
[10:29:21] <mritun_> if we go by words of JS
[10:29:22] <jmcp> I sure hope so
[10:29:23] <moazamraja> and he railed into me
[10:29:28] <mritun_> (commodity CPU)
[10:29:44] <moazamraja> and offered me N amount of machines (sparc/x86) in his lab, with free power and IPs
[10:29:49] <kaiwai> a SPARC laptop for $1k, that would be nice
[10:29:50] <jmcp> wooooo
[10:29:52] <jmcp> nice
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[10:29:57] <Gekkko> omg md5sum takes quite some time on 3gb files.
[10:30:02] <Gekkko> 3 minutes is too long.
[10:30:05] <jmcp> kaiwai: I don't know that we'd see the sort of volume where that would work
[10:30:09] <moazamraja> 1u-2u boxes and a new B6000 based T1 system
[10:30:22] <moazamraja> or i should say, a B6000 decked out with T1 blades
[10:30:34] <mritun_> why T1 ?
[10:30:37] <Tempt> Sun needs to get an entry level server out there that is actually cheaper than a 1RU dell crapbox
[10:30:39] <palowoda> He wasn't doing anything else with it?
[10:30:49] <moazamraja> palowoda: he has a large lab
[10:30:49] <kaiwai> jmcp: well, if one stripped out the uneeded crap; no PCMICA, integrated everything etc. to bring the price down
[10:30:57] <moazamraja> palwoda: he can spare 5-10 machines for me
[10:30:58] <Tempt> Err
[10:31:01] <moazamraja> and i only need 2-3
[10:31:02] <Tempt> PCMCIA is handy.
[10:31:03] <moazamraja> if that
[10:31:17] <jmcp> kaiwai: the cpus themselves aren't going to be in sufficient volume, I reckon... unless Intel and AMD start making them too
[10:31:18] <Tempt> What else would I plug my SCSI card into? <g>
[10:31:26] <moazamraja> mritun_: i dunno why he ordered T1 blades for the B6000, but i'm not complaining
[10:31:48] <jmcp> kaiwai: though I would most definitely *love* to see that sort of volume
[10:31:56] <mritun_> ah :)
[10:32:07] <palowoda> moazamraja: No I need 12 systems all to myself. :)
[10:32:19] <moazamraja> these are server chips, I doubt we'll be seeing them in desktops or laptops
[10:32:20] <jmcp> palowoda: you selfish person :-P
[10:32:31] <kaiwai> jmcp: true, hopefully once Solaris improves it'll be a good selling point for more sparc machines
[10:32:42] <Tempt> moazamraja: IIIcu was a "server" chip, but that made it into workstations.
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[10:32:43] <jmcp> once Solaris improves?
[10:32:53] <Tempt> The problem is T1's performance isn't really workstation optimized
[10:33:00] <Tempt> although with the amount of crap GNOME runs ...
[10:33:03] <kaiwai> jmcp: yes :) but one will remain silent on that
[10:33:04] <moazamraja> once solaris improves? for sparc machines?
[10:33:05] <palowoda> I give them to my children but I still have at least five personal laptops.
[10:33:05] <Tempt> ... it might be a win
[10:33:16] <jmcp> kaiwai: not going to give me any suggestions?
[10:33:22] <moazamraja> you telling me that USB camera support and desktop widgets are gonna help Sparc SERVERS?
[10:33:29] <Tempt> YES
[10:33:32] <kaiwai> jmcp: no, I don't feel the need for a jihad to be launched on my ass
[10:33:33] <Tempt> FOR MY SUNRAY!
[10:33:43] <jmcp> kaiwai: pm me then
[10:33:48] <Tempt> kaiwai: Well, tell me how Solaris/SPARC needs improvement
[10:33:51] <moazamraja> Tempt: true...(about the workstation), but i dunno , i can't see T1/T2 based workstations coming
[10:33:54] <palowoda> Sunray with usb webcam that sounds cool.
[10:34:14] <kaiwai> Tempt: talking to you would be like talking to GWB about where he went wrong - it would be a waste of precious oxygen
[10:34:14] <jmcp> it *is* cool
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[10:34:35] <Tempt> kaiwai: Aah, so you're going to talk GNU this and that. I get it, point taken.
[10:34:43] <moazamraja> kaiwai: you're saying Tempt would have you kidnapped and tortured?
[10:34:46] <moazamraja> oh.
[10:34:51] <Tempt> moazamraja: Sssh!
[10:35:02] <kaiwai> moazamraja: please, as kinky as I am, lets keep it G rated here :)
[10:35:07] <jmcp> and after Tempt it done it'll be nrubsig's turn
[10:35:14] <moazamraja> woohoo
[10:35:17] <Tempt> I would never condone the kidnapping and gratuitous torture of the irritating.
[10:35:28] <moazamraja> i dunno, I'm happy with my current 'workstation'
[10:35:32] <moazamraja> iMac 24"
[10:35:34] <kaiwai> Tempt: who mentioned anything about GNU?
[10:35:36] <moazamraja> best. ever.
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[10:35:38] <jmcp> Tempt: how about actively participating?
[10:35:39] <moazamraja> EVAR!!!
[10:35:50] <Tempt> jmcp: Participating in what?
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[10:35:52] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig
[10:36:02] <mritun_> speak of the devil !!!
[10:36:03] <mritun_> :P
[10:36:04] <jmcp> Tempt: the afore-mentioned activity you wouldn't condone?
[10:36:06] <jmcp> eeek!
[10:36:33] <Tpenta> shhhh he's here now
[10:36:35] <nrubsig> first version of pastebin.ca put/get script is ready, get it from http://svn.genunix.org/repos/on/branches/ksh93/gisburn/scripts/shnote.ksh
[10:36:51] <Tempt> jmcp: Oh, those. I'm sorry, I'm unable to comment one way or the other at this point in time' however I will note that some tasks are minion-jobs
[10:37:08] <jmcp> nrubsig: surely you should have been putting dtrace probes into ksh93 rather than wasting your time on this idiotic "world wide web" stuff
[10:37:13] <jmcp> Tempt: :-)
[10:37:39] <nrubsig> groan
[10:37:51] <jmcp> nrubsig: don't worry, I'm just needling because it's easy
[10:37:56] <Tempt> Ssh, he's gotta finish the Oracle integration first. Where else do you store your shell history?
[10:38:08] <jmcp> pr0n encoded in ascii?
[10:38:16] <moazamraja> anyone using mod_dtrace for apache?
[10:38:23] <mritun_> umm, so what we have now are DTrace scripts to debug shell scripts
[10:38:28] <moazamraja> the webpage for that is gone, I can't find the source to it any longer
[10:38:44] <mritun_> any plans for probes in DTrace so we can debug the dtrace scripts themselves ?
[10:38:49] <mritun_> :-P
[10:38:56] <nrubsig> $ ksh shnote.ksh put "$(ls -l)"
[10:38:58] <nrubsig> SUCCESS: http://pastebin.ca/656632
[10:39:24] <Tempt> Actually, dtrace probes in all the shells could be a real win
[10:39:43] <Tempt> Imagine being able to keep an eye on your troublesome users by having dtrace log every shell command?
[10:39:55] <Tpenta> the universe would implode
[10:39:59] <mritun_> eh
[10:40:03] <nrubsig> groan
[10:40:09] <nrubsig> Tempt: stop the nagging
[10:40:14] <nrubsig> please
[10:40:16] <mritun_> and what if a user launches his own copy of "un-bugged" sh ?
[10:40:28] <Tempt> Not nagging.
[10:40:31] <Gekkko> PHILIPS DVD+-RW DVD8631 is the DVD drive I have, does Philips play nice with SXCE?
[10:40:36] <Tempt> It's a good idea for secure environments
[10:40:45] <oxygene> mritun_: in that case you know which other shell to replace
[10:40:48] <jmcp> Gekkko: if it uses standard interface stuff, then it should be fine
[10:40:50] <Tempt> If a user launched an unbugged shell, you'd know he launched it and kick his arse.
[10:40:51] <mritun_> Gekkko: we'll get to know in a short while
[10:40:52] <moazamraja> in a secure env, just replace the shell
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[10:41:19] * nrubsig hoped people may be happen about shnote.ksh, instead people want more... and more... and more... and more. Never enougth... ;-(
[10:41:26] <nrubsig> s/happen/happy/
[10:41:54] <mritun_> nrubsig: I hope you studied the story about the father, son, and their donkey :P
[10:42:02] <mritun_> you can never make all people happy ;)
[10:42:09] * nrubsig crosses his eyes
[10:42:11] <Tempt> any chance of a dtksh revival?
[10:42:29] <palowoda> I guess we will be happy when ksh93 is in opensolaris to begin with.
[10:42:30] <moazamraja> hrm, aug 14th today
[10:42:31] <cmihai> Well, there is a tksh
[10:42:32] <nrubsig> Tempt: yeah, shoot the desktop group
[10:42:32] <jmcp> Tempt: don't be mean
[10:42:38] <Tempt> dtksh93
[10:42:42] <cmihai> Tcl C libs + ksh93
[10:42:43] <nrubsig> groan
[10:42:46] <moazamraja> just realized it
[10:42:50] <cmihai> But it's not dtksh :-)
[10:42:56] <mritun_> Tempt: as good as CDE becoming the "desktop shell of choice" and getting "PCMagazine award"
[10:42:57] <nrubsig> Tempt: dtksh IS ksh93 based. Try $ print ${sh.version}
[10:43:03] <nrubsig> er
[10:43:06] <nrubsig> Tempt: dtksh IS ksh93 based. Try $ print ${.sh.version}
[10:43:11] <Tempt> Well, there you go.
[10:43:14] <cmihai> dtksh is based on early ksh93... very early
[10:43:37] <palowoda> Is dtksh scheduled to be removed with CDE?
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[10:43:42] <Tpenta> ksh93d
[10:43:47] <capitano> ciao
[10:43:48] <Tempt> can't remove dtksh
[10:43:53] <Gekkko> ksh is very similar to bash I hear.
[10:43:57] <Tempt> How would we play Brendan's version of pong?
[10:44:08] <cmihai> Tempt: dtksh pong?
[10:44:11] <cmihai> Tempt: that's awesome :P
[10:44:14] <nrubsig> $ ~/ksh93/ast_ksh_20070628/build_32bit/arch/sol11.i386/bin/ksh shnote.ksh put "$(/usr/dt/bin/dtksh -c 'print ${.sh.version}')"
[10:44:15] <mritun_> where where ??
[10:44:16] <nrubsig> SUCCESS: http://pastebin.ca/656639
[10:44:19] <Tempt> brendangregg.com
[10:44:28] <cmihai> http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/jsp/descFile.jsp?url=descAll/xpong__an_x11_game
[10:44:50] <palowoda> State of the art in Solaris gaming.
[10:45:00] <mritun_> I love the description :D
[10:45:08] <Tempt> Has that version got sound in?
[10:45:31] <cmihai> Just add a bell :P
[10:45:37] <mritun_> the link goes to /dev/null
[10:45:50] <cmihai> http://www.brendangregg.com/dtkshdemos.html
[10:45:51] <Tempt> I hacked it to use sounds from /usr/demo
[10:45:52] <cmihai> scroll down
[10:45:59] <nrubsig> palowoda: state of the art console gaming: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/ksh93-integration/screenshots/gnaw_v8_anim_normal.gif
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[10:46:41] <Tempt> nrubsig: That's 100% ksh93?
[10:46:44] * Tpenta liked brendan's version of a java based ed, that played the starwars theme in the background and sound effects on keystrokes
[10:46:45] <palowoda> heh, I stand corrected it's improved.
[10:46:56] <nrubsig> Tempt: yes
[10:47:03] <Tempt> nrubsig: Not bad.
[10:47:18] <nrubsig> Tempt: and it's part of the ksh93 putback.
[10:47:35] <Tempt> Are you maintaining packages for ksh93 at the moment?
[10:47:42] <nrubsig> ?!
[10:47:50] <Tempt> For general Solaris
[10:48:24] <nrubsig> Tempt: did you ever read http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/ksh93-integration/ yet ?
[10:48:38] <nrubsig> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/ksh93-integration/downloads/
[10:48:39] <Tempt> Doing so right now.
[10:49:22] <sle> anybody know how loud a sun fire v210 can get?
[10:49:26] <Gekkko> DVD-R or DVD+R?
[10:49:57] <sle> i dunno if i should trust the environmental info from sun's website
[10:50:16] <sle> as it's always a worst case number for their sound levels
[10:50:18] <Tempt> I had one running at home
[10:50:32] <Tempt> I find my v880 less annoying sound-wise
[10:50:36] <sle> oh :/
[10:50:39] <Tempt> the 210 screams like a banshee
[10:50:48] <sle> darn
[10:50:49] <Tpenta> annoying noise: T1000 - industrial vacuum cleaner
[10:50:53] <Tempt> and the environmental control is always changing the fan speed to make it REALLY annoying
[10:50:55] <sle> haha, you can say that again
[10:51:01] <sle> we have a T2000 and it's killer
[10:51:05] <Tempt> You can't tune it out because the noise always changes.
[10:51:18] <Tpenta> i swaer the furst time i heard one, I was looking for the guy with a vacuum cleaner on his bnack
[10:51:21] <Tempt> Mine is going into colo this week
[10:51:26] <Tempt> To annoy someone else
[10:51:42] <sle> i just have a chance to purchase a v210 for under $1k
[10:51:43] <timeless> heh
[10:51:57] <sle> and i was thinking about stowing it away in my apartment for awhile
[10:52:02] <timeless> we have some sort of dell non rack heavy workstation which is like that
[10:52:09] <kaiwai> the solution to that is just turn up the music louder :)
[10:52:13] <oxygene> Tpenta: people do that when I turn on my notebook *shrug*
[10:52:39] <capitano> hi
[10:52:40] <Tempt> sle: 210 is otherwise a fine machine, just make sure you aren't going to put it in a room you can't close a door on
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[10:52:55] <capitano> is there the way to make something like 'sh /etc/netstart/ in opensolaris ?
[10:52:58] <sle> yeah, it looks real nice, i'm just concerned that i'll drive my roommates crazy :P
[10:53:11] <Tempt> I ran mine for a year.
[10:53:16] <Tempt> But I wouldn't want it near my bed
[10:54:04] <moazamraja> i ran an x2100 in my room
[10:54:07] <moazamraja> for like 20 minutes.
[10:54:08] <nrubsig> Tpenta: did you saw my message ?
[10:54:09] <sle> oh well, i guess none of sun's recent/current generation of servers is quiet...
[10:54:10] <moazamraja> 'twas nuts.
[10:54:15] <mritun_> capitano: what are you trying to accomplish ?
[10:54:31] <capitano> mritun_, I have trouble with e1000g0
[10:54:33] * sle looks at his V100 longingly
[10:54:45] <mritun_> specifically ?
[10:54:46] <sle> too bad it wasn't so...old...
[10:55:07] <capitano> mritun_, I have changed ip between e1000g0 and bge0 and now I need that at boot work only intel nic
[10:55:09] <moazamraja> sle: well...i figured I'd rather have a loud but cool server in a datacenter
[10:55:39] <Gekkko> fucking telemarketers
[10:55:44] <Gekkko> they now send indians to your door!
[10:55:44] <mritun_> capitano: you want to remove bge0 from system ?
[10:56:17] <moazamraja> gekko: whaa?
[10:56:25] <moazamraja> u have ppl showing up at yer door?
[10:56:28] <Gekkko> some guy comes to the door at 7pm
[10:56:29] <Gekkko> lol
[10:56:32] <capitano> mritun_, I would like to make nic setup without reboot the server that is very slow in the post operations
[10:56:38] <Gekkko> he goes to say something with his little book
[10:56:45] <Gekkko> and I say "No thanks." and smile.
[10:56:46] <mritun_> capitano: man ifconfig
[10:56:47] <Tempt> sle: V100s are cool
[10:56:53] <Tempt> sle: So cheap for a SPARC machine
[10:56:55] <Gekkko> He says like he's been kicked in the balls "alright."
[10:57:06] <mritun_> capitano: one stop. Does everything thats needed
[10:57:07] <Gekkko> http://apcmag.com/6959/dust_gives_dell_a_colourful_headache
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[10:57:14] <Gekkko> lol dust contamination
[10:57:15] <sle> Tempt: yeah, but the lack of an expansion port is starting to hurt
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[10:57:23] <Tempt> True.
[10:57:28] <Tempt> I use one in colo
[10:57:46] <capitano> mritun_, i would like to know if can I do something like svcadm restart inetd
[10:57:52] <Tempt> The V100 also bugger all power
[10:58:20] <sle> hmm, i haven't looked into v100 power consumption
[10:58:24] <mritun_> capitano: svccfg apply network:limited (iirc)
[10:58:39] <mritun_> then svccfg apply <final milestone>
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[10:58:48] <mritun_> would stop and restart all network services
[10:58:49] <sle> we use a few of them for login servers in a nice quiet corner of our data center
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[10:59:15] <capitano> mritun_, thanks
[10:59:22] <Tempt> v100 is like 80 watts max
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[10:59:56] <sle> cool
[10:59:57] <moazamraja> my hosting provider asked me to unplug the 2nd powersupply on my x4100 :(
[11:00:01] <capitano> I like the 320 watts rms * 2 of my audison hv30 :)
[11:00:03] <moazamraja> they said it was suckin down too much power
[11:00:20] <Tempt> did you point out that unplugging one would increase the other?
[11:00:28] <Tempt> And talk about a stingy colo ...
[11:00:55] <moazamraja> heh
[11:00:57] <moazamraja> yuhp
[11:01:02] <sle> you'd think they'd like it better with two PSU active
[11:01:03] <moazamraja> but since i pay a stingy price...
[11:01:13] <sle> less load per each drop
[11:01:37] <Tempt> The company I get my space from have a rack in the DC
[11:01:46] <Tempt> And they got their price hiked for using more power
[11:01:53] <Tempt> so they filled every last RU with machines
[11:01:58] <Tempt> machines running seti@home
[11:02:08] <Tempt> and shit like that just to suck down the absolute maximum.
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[11:02:27] <Gekkko> k guys, installing SXCE now XD
[11:02:28] <Gekkko> cya
[11:02:50] <moazamraja> Tempt: why? won't they just hike up the price even more then?
[11:03:10] <Tempt> No, the pricing was tiered and had a penalty for using more than X amount of power
[11:03:17] <moazamraja> i c
[11:03:20] <Tempt> once you pay past that tier it doesn't go up
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[11:03:39] <Tempt> Hence old yum-cha dual pentium-iis with broken hard drives roaring away
[11:03:42] <moazamraja> i had free T1 hosting for like...5+ years :(
[11:03:45] <moazamraja> *sigh* now i have to pay
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[11:03:52] <Tempt> I'm suggesting they should kick out the crap and I'll put an E4500 in there
[11:03:54] <moazamraja> altho it's a small price, but oh well
[11:04:12] * sle gets free DS3-equivalent, just capped at 5GB transit/week :/
[11:04:31] <Tempt> I need another colo site. Offshore preferably for more redundancy.
[11:04:50] <moazamraja> the day my site needs more bandwidth power, it better somehow pay for itself!
[11:05:03] <Tempt> I'd like to get a bunch of people together and put something in the US somewhere and everyone can enjoys zones aplenty.
[11:05:12] <moazamraja> Tempt: beeen there, done that :P
[11:05:17] <moazamraja> 5-6 ppl have zones on my x2100
[11:05:24] <moazamraja> hosted in milpitas, ca
[11:05:29] <Tempt> Heh
[11:05:32] <Tempt> CAN HAS ZONE?
[11:05:35] <Tempt> PLZ?
[11:05:37] <Tempt> :)
[11:05:42] <moazamraja> but no one gets to touch my x4100 ;)
[11:06:06] <moazamraja> Tempt: i would..., but nowadays i'm afraid of ppl doing evil shit with their zones, spamming, hax0ring other sites, etc.
[11:06:18] <sle> i was thinking about doing something like that with my friends, but zones seem a bit iffy right now in sol10u3
[11:06:23] *** MattMan is now known as MattMTG
[11:06:30] <moazamraja> sle: how so? what is iffy about em ?
[11:06:34] <moazamraja> i haven't had any troubles
[11:06:36] <sle> patching a machine with tons of zones is no fun
[11:06:43] <moazamraja> ah
[11:06:48] <moazamraja> for loop :P
[11:06:52] <sle> and until the network virtualization works, ipfilter doesn't work all that great
[11:07:04] <moazamraja> yeah, i end up doing ipfilter per zone, within the zone
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[11:07:27] <moazamraja> it's not 100% perfect, but it's the best solution out there
[11:07:30] <sle> yeah, except i probably can't request X separate network drops right now
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[11:07:47] <moazamraja> and the whole cloning thing kicks ass
[11:07:48] <Tempt> moazamraja: Happy to do a reciprocal zone arrangement.
[11:07:49] <sle> so i have to go with virtual NIC
[11:07:57] <moazamraja> sle: i only have 1 drop
[11:08:09] <moazamraja> sle: and virtual nics, and /etc/hosts.allow/deny files
[11:08:10] <moazamraja> works fine
[11:08:12] <moazamraja> Tempt: oooooh
[11:08:16] <moazamraja> now that sounds interesting :)
[11:08:21] <sle> yeah, but people want full ipfilter :/
[11:08:22] <moazamraja> email me, moazam at unixville dot com
[11:08:41] <sle> and others want to do things like run a NFS server, so...yeah
[11:08:46] <moazamraja> ah, yeah
[11:08:53] <moazamraja> my users run web/mysql/java
[11:08:54] <sle> i might just get a T1000 and use LDoms
[11:09:05] <sle> that'll probably please everyone
[11:10:44] <sle> just gotta wait until the price goes down :{
[11:10:49] <sle> :P*
[11:11:00] <Tempt> If I could get some cost sharing happening I'd get a T1000 in colo
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[11:13:30] <Gekkko> I have a problem >_>
[11:13:38] <Gekkko> the DVD boots, get to grub
[11:13:46] <sle> i'm surprised that not many people have started zone VPS services
[11:13:56] <Gekkko> no matter what I select, it loads to the part where it shows the trademark
[11:14:03] <Gekkko> 4 lines later with in one second it reboots
[11:14:04] <sle> the only one i'm aware of is joyent accelerators
[11:14:39] <Tempt> sparezone also
[11:14:43] <moazamraja> sle: hosting is a cut-throat business
[11:14:46] <Tempt> they do hosted zones
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[11:14:53] <moazamraja> hard to make money
[11:15:00] <Tempt> Besides, everyone is waiting on max-rss support.
[11:15:03] <moazamraja> majority of 'customers' wanna pay peanuts
[11:15:21] <moazamraja> and bigger customers who can pay want air-tight SLA contracts
[11:15:31] <moazamraja> i've thought of doing it, not sure if it's worth it
[11:15:56] <Gekkko> this is my system http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/data/systems/details/1744.html so it should work
[11:15:57] <Gekkko> >_>
[11:16:19] <Tempt> Everyone I host just pays beer
[11:16:21] <sle> it should be possible to turn on verbose boot via grub
[11:16:31] <sle> maybe that'll give you more info
[11:16:38] <Gekkko> hmm
[11:16:41] <Gekkko> what tag should I add
[11:16:54] * sle doesn't know for sure, though, as i work with OBP most of the time
[11:17:04] <Tempt> And hosting customers typically want shitloads of disk as well; which gets expensive in a colo environment.
[11:17:14] <noyb> does anyone here use kerberos on snv?
[11:17:19] <Gekkko> even choosing serial console reboots it
[11:17:21] <Gekkko> lol
[11:17:42] <moazamraja> well, 2:20am here
[11:17:48] <moazamraja> and i have an 8am meeting, nice.
[11:17:51] <moazamraja> l8rs all
[11:17:54] <sle> night
[11:17:55] <Gekkko> bye
[11:17:58] <moazamraja> Tempt: email me in a day or two, we'll work something out
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[11:18:25] <Tempt> moazamraja: I've dropped you a mail so you've got my address.
[11:18:56] <sle> http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/features/articles/grub_boot_solaris.html
[11:19:07] <sle> looks like that suggests -v too
[11:19:08] <moazamraja> kewl
[11:20:30] <Tempt> I should find a way to get my V880 in colo
[11:20:35] <Tempt> Imagine all the zones I could run on that!
[11:20:51] <Tempt> the 12 disk bays would provide ample storage as well.
[11:20:54] <sle> heh
[11:21:04] * seanmcg looks at the 250 zones being created now..
[11:21:19] <Tempt> Imagine patching 250 zones ...
[11:21:26] <Tempt> It'd take 10 hours for each patch
[11:21:27] <sle> lol
[11:23:09] <Gekkko> no matter where I place the -v in the kernel line it doesn't notice it
[11:23:18] <sle> i think there's also a -m option
[11:23:20] <Gekkko> probably because it reboots before it gets the chance
[11:23:20] <Gekkko> oh wait this time it shows a 1 second of kernel loading then nada
[11:23:27] <coffman> its easier to patch only global, and then create a new sparse and from that clone the new zones
[11:23:32] <Gekkko> what's -m?
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[11:25:59] <sle> Gekkko: another boot option
[11:26:16] <sle> try '-m verbose' maybe
[11:27:09] <Gekkko> yeah, and it does what
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[11:27:23] <kaiwai> iirc -v does verbose
[11:27:27] <sle> i think -m tells SMF to be verbose
[11:27:57] <Gekkko> but I missed it because it crashed
[11:28:05] <Gekkko> and always crashes at an early point
[11:28:10] <Gekkko> and I don't understand why
[11:28:26] <Gekkko> I wonder what could be causing the crash.
[11:28:29] <renihs> truss it
[11:28:41] <Gekkko> Could be the second CD drive?
[11:29:23] <oxygene> Gekkko: add -k
[11:29:33] <seanmcg> use -k with the -v.  It'll give you a kernel debugger which will (should) show you whats going on..
[11:29:43] <seanmcg> oxygene: opps :)
[11:29:50] <Gekkko> AH
[11:29:51] <Gekkko> ok
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[11:31:01] <Gekkko> wow odd error
[11:31:26] <Gekkko> panic[cpu0]/thread=fec1ede0: Can't handle mwait size 0
[11:31:37] <Gekkko> then 6 more lines
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[11:32:54] <seanmcg> cut'n'paste to pastebin.org ?
[11:33:43] <Tempt> Gekkko: This is part of the global conspiracy to keep you away from a shell prompt.
[11:33:48] <seanmcg> Gekkko: sounds like: http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6577473
[11:34:36] <Tempt> So, just wait until the next release and download that instead.
[11:34:48] <seanmcg> or use the workaround in the bug...
[11:34:51] <Gekkko> yeah
[11:34:57] <Gekkko> I'll try it
[11:35:30] <Gekkko> hmm
[11:36:02] <Gekkko> just type idle_cpu_prefer_mwait = 0 in kmdb?
[11:36:30] <Gekkko> because when I do that I get "kmdb: failed to dereference symbol: unknown symbol name"
[11:38:10] <seanmcg> You'd have to do it before hitting the panic :)
[11:38:32] <Gekkko> how?
[11:40:00] <seanmcg> and its done like: idle_cpu_prefer_mwait/W 0
[11:40:21] <seanmcg> you'd also probably have to boot with -kd I think
[11:40:25] <Gekkko> k
[11:42:38] <Gekkko> then type exit?
[11:42:43] <asyd> \_o<
[11:42:49] <seanmcg> :c
[11:43:19] <Gekkko> :c?
[11:43:36] <seanmcg> ya :c  means continue..
[11:43:57] <Gekkko> I was asking if that's what I should type vs \_o< :P
[11:44:14] <asyd> :)
[11:44:21] <seanmcg> heh
[11:44:50] <Gekkko> holy crap sticks it's working
[11:45:08] <seanmcg> Cool
[11:45:31] <seanmcg> The bug should be fix in the next release
[11:45:57] <Gekkko> excellent.
[11:46:38] <Gekkko> if I reenable hyperthreading after I install SXCE, will it pick up on that/
[11:47:49] <Gekkko> omg noes lol
[11:47:54] <Gekkko> X had an erorr
[11:48:19] <Gekkko> (EE) Failed to load module "dbe" (module does not exist, 0)
[11:48:31] <seanmcg> Gekkko: ya, solaris should see the 'hyperthreaded cpus' :)
[11:48:32] <Gekkko> same for glx, record, dri, IA, xtsol and fbdev
[11:48:41] <Gekkko> the driver is "ati"
[11:49:19] <renihs> gecko dbe & ati = no good idea
[11:49:28] <Gekkko> I didn't do it
[11:49:31] <Gekkko> this is the installer
[11:49:32] <Gekkko> >_>
[11:49:34] <renihs> at least on linux :p
[11:49:52] <Gekkko> So I am lost.
[11:49:53] <Gekkko> lol
[11:49:56] <renihs> you shouldnt put ati in a sun
[11:49:59] <capitano> anyone knows if scintall need telnet access to the remote node ?
[11:50:00] <renihs> thats blasphemy
[11:50:34] <Gekkko> ATI in itself is blasphemy.
[11:50:42] <Gekkko> now that I've created satan spawn, help me lol
[11:50:47] <Doc> capitano: no
[11:51:20] <capitano> doc i receive an error at Searching for a remote configuration method ...
[11:51:43] <Doc> did you rtfm?
[11:51:54] <renihs> Gekkko, start by removing dbe :p
[11:52:05] <capitano> Doc, no, only the guide
[11:52:05] <renihs> uncommenting
[11:52:06] <renihs> i mean :p
[11:52:19] <kaiwai> eww ati
[11:52:38] <Gekkko> renihs: did you notice what else it didn't find...
[11:52:43] <Gekkko> everything?
[11:52:50] <capitano> hope the rsa key
[11:53:09] <Tempt> Aah, stop heckling his hardware and get his machine installed and running.
[11:53:24] <Gekkko> if it didn't find fbdev there's something wrong lol
[11:53:38] <capitano> Doc, can you help in find the correct doc to read ?
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[11:57:15] <Gekkko> omg
[11:57:20] <Gekkko> I think this may be a bug
[11:57:29] <Gekkko> if I have two monitors in, it finds no modules
[11:57:35] <Gekkko> yet if I pull out one, it works
[11:57:41] <Gekkko> i'll test for reproducability soon
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[12:04:13] <Tempt> WickedWicky: OH NOES!
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[12:08:44] <Pietro_S> WickedWicky: if you would like to install something from SFE, you can test newer my utility - now it can install directly package without the need of some nasty one liner or coping ;-)
[12:11:25] <capitano> are there options to setup a sun cluster without quorum server ?
[12:11:52] <Tempt> Sure, you can use a quorum disk instead
[12:13:18] <capitano> do you mean a nas ?
[12:13:41] <sle> i think you need to use direct attached storage
[12:13:49] <Tempt> Apparently NAS storage is supported now (NetApp Filer)
[12:13:57] <Tempt> Otherwise any shared DAS or SAN.
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[12:14:45] <capitano> could I start the cluster without the quorum and then add it ?
[12:14:50] <Tempt> No.
[12:14:55] <Tempt> It is required for the installation
[12:15:07] <Tempt> Unless you're doing a single-node install for dev purposes.
[12:15:37] <capitano> Do you want to disable automatic quorum device selection (yes/no) [no]? I try to put yes
[12:16:07] <Tempt> If you disable automatic quorum device selection, you will need to select one and provide information about it.
[12:16:16] <Tempt> Trust me, I'm not lying to you.
[12:16:38] <capitano> than I need a third machine
[12:16:51] <Tempt> or shared storage. Your choice.
[12:17:40] <sle> HA isn't for people trying to save cash
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[12:36:56] <Gekkko> is it easier to partition with the console?
[12:37:01] <Gekkko> the gui way is... quite odd.
[12:37:32] <Tempt> Did you consider using the text installer all the way through?
[12:37:38] <Tempt> It'll save you time and effort
[12:39:17] <Gekkko> hm
[12:39:21] <Gekkko> how do I start the text installer?
[12:39:34] <Gekkko> im in the single user shell
[12:39:36] <Tempt> Not sure, haven't had a chance to boot SXCE on intel yet.
[12:39:49] <Gekkko> how do you usually launch it
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[12:40:24] <Tempt> Usually asks you which installer you want.
[12:40:49] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: hi
[12:40:54] <Tempt> Hi.
[12:41:00] <Tempt> Get a response from LSI?
[12:41:07] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: LS got back to me
[12:41:24] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: a polite fuck off
[12:41:27] <Gekkko> Tempt: when I boot the DVD is says four things: SX  - Developers Edition
[12:41:28] <Gekkko> SX
[12:41:29] <capitano> Tempt, if I setup a quorum server and it stop itself working the does the cluster go in panic ?
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[12:41:35] <Gekkko> SX serial console
[12:41:41] <Gekkko> serial console ttyb
[12:42:03] * Tempt shrugs
[12:42:04] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: -s is oem so not our problem
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[12:42:14] <Gekkko> lol Teknix
[12:42:17] <Gekkko> Tempt:
[12:42:20] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: That's rude.
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[12:42:26] <Gekkko> for future reference, you type install-solaris
[12:42:31] <Gekkko> I reckon that was a good guess lol
[12:42:31] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: No firmware updates on their website?
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[12:42:41] <jpdrawneek> tempt: yes
[12:43:04] <Tempt> capitano: Seriously man, read the docs from Sun.
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[12:43:32] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: there is a frimware on the 22320 page for non raid
[12:43:59] <Tempt> Tried installing it?
[12:44:18] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: just as soon as some one tells me how
[12:46:52] <Gekkko> fdisk on solaris is... not simple
[12:46:53] <Gekkko> lol
[12:46:55] <Gekkko> it's threatening
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[12:49:14] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: It'll be in the README with the update
[12:49:33] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: That's how I did my upgrade - followed the instructions. It was easy.
[12:49:38] <jpdrawneek> Tempt - ok how do i run the .exe on sparc?
[12:50:05] <Tempt> Hmmm
[12:50:07] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: also where do i get a floppy drive for a netra?
[12:50:09] <Tempt> That's not good.
[12:50:21] <Tempt> Upgrade it in a peecee and move it back?
[12:50:27] <solar-star> Hi
[12:50:36] <Tempt> My update just had a .bin file that you uploaded with lsiutil
[12:51:09] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: my card is on the mpt driver - no lsiutil for me
[12:51:19] <solar-star> Solaris is trying to connect to a network even if there is no one
[12:51:44] <solar-star> This causes enormous boot times
[12:52:05] <Tempt> hmm
[12:52:09] <Tempt> This during the install?
[12:52:22] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: I think there is a Solaris tool for the mpt driver to do updates.
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[12:52:29] 
[12:52:30] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: Check the docs.
[12:52:38] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: can't find it
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[12:52:45] <solar-star> Tempt: No
[12:53:12] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: Installed the itmpt driver?
[12:53:25] <solar-star> It must be somewhere in the startup script
[12:53:30] <solar-star> but where to find that one?
[12:53:38] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: yes
[12:53:47] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: Check the mpt manpage and disable mpt
[12:53:54] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: Make sure your card is picked up my itmpt
[12:53:56] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: ok
[12:57:21] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: there nothing in the man page about disabling mpt
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[13:07:53] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: Hmm, you'll have to have a fiddle. If nothing else needs the mpt driver just kill it.
[13:08:22] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: how do you kill it?
[13:08:58] <Berny> .oO(rm mpt)
[13:09:12] <Tempt> I'd just move the files elsewhere and reboot
[13:09:16] <Tempt> touch /reconfigure first
[13:09:19] <jpdrawneek> ok
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[13:14:07] <Gekkko> is there a way I can make that kernel debuggering I did permanent/
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[13:15:19] <seanmcg> edit grub menu in /boot/grub/menu.lst and add the -k flag, or use eeprom bootfile=kmdb (i thinks)
[13:16:03] <Gekkko> no.
[13:16:06] <Gekkko> I mean the option I did
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[13:20:15] <jfndi> Gekkko: do you mean logging a debugging session?
[13:20:33] <Gekkko> I mean making it do idle_cpu_prefer_mwait/W 0
[13:20:37] <Gekkko> everytime
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[13:25:35] <jfndi> Gekkko: Have you tried set module_name:idle_cpu_prefer_mwait=0 in /etc/system?
[13:26:07] <Gekkko> I haven't even finished installing yet
[13:26:13] <Gekkko> but I shall try that :)
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[13:44:56] <seanmcg> that may not work, the setting may need to be done very early in boot before solaris reads /etc/system.   I think there may be a way from the grub menu..  (goes to search)
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[13:55:26] <seanmcg> ya, Gekkko in the grub menu you can try adding: -B idle_cpu_prefer_mwait=0  which may make it permanant..
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[13:56:01] <Gekkko> alright I'll try if it fails to boot after the install :)
[13:56:24] <Teltariat> Greets folks: how does one manually start a text installation within an installation environment?
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[13:57:02] <Gekkko> install-solaris
[13:57:03] <Gekkko> i do believe.
[13:57:17] <seanmcg> or suninstall ?
[13:57:41] <Teltariat> Thanks Gekko, it worked.  You are manufactured out of 100% pure industrial strength awesome.
[13:58:46] <Gekkko> lol
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[13:58:55] <Gekkko> I only worked it out earlier by accident.
[13:58:56] <Gekkko> :P
[13:59:46] <Teltariat> Is it safe to use en_US.UTF-8 as the default locale?
[14:00:18] <oxygene> utf-8? if you like to see X crashing every now and then because its truetype loader sucks, sure..
[14:00:28] <Teltariat> ok, nvrmind
[14:00:43] <sle> say, what's the recommended way to change the default locale after install?
[14:01:30] <Gekkko> I set my locale to C
[14:01:35] <tsoome> im using utf-8 based locale ... no problems so far...
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[14:02:43] <Gekkko> is it useful to use en_AU?
[14:03:02] <Gekkko> or will it threaten me every 10 minutes "unsupported locale, setting to C"
[14:04:33] <jmcp> Gekkko: I haven't had any problems using en_AU
[14:05:07] <Gekkko> k
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[14:06:13] <Tempt> C all the way.
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[14:10:00] <Gekkko> wtf does the locale C even mean
[14:10:01] <Gekkko> >_>!
[14:10:16] <Gekkko> http://ninjawords.com/patronize
[14:10:17] <dlg> it means 7 bits is enough for anyone
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[14:11:29] <Gekkko> >_>!
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[14:12:12] <mritun_> solar-star: easy
[14:12:27] <mritun_> echo wait 60 >> /etc/dhcp.whatever
[14:12:42] <Tempt> dlg: Exactly.
[14:13:13] <Tempt> !seen atomdrache
[14:13:15] <Drone> Atomdrache is currently online in #opensolaris and last spoke on Mon 13 Aug 2007 14:57 GMT, saying 'I don't know.'.
[14:13:43] <mritun_> thats so useless
[14:13:53] <mritun_> better would have been something like-
[14:14:10] <mritun_> Atomdrache is currently online in #opensolaris and last spoke 5hrs ago, saying 'I don't know.'.
[14:14:24] <Tempt> mritun_: Well, get coding then.
[14:14:39] <mritun_> I don't think the drone would like it
[14:14:48] <Tempt> I just won my ebay auction for an Alpha, so it looks like I'll be learning OpenVMS next week.
[14:14:50] <mritun_> and whose drone is it anyways ?
[14:14:57] <Tempt> That should stretch the brain or something.
[14:15:13] <mritun_> Tempt: may god bestow his mercy upon thee
[14:15:45] * mritun_ was almost driven to try VMS sometime ago
[14:16:01] <Tempt> Aah man, VMS is one of the classic operating systems.
[14:16:12] <mritun_> I wanted a hierarchical DB... and the one avaiable had only OpenVMS as "tried and trusted" platform
[14:16:13] <Tempt> When I sick of VMS I'll flip the box over to Tru64.
[14:16:27] <Gekkko> oh noes
[14:16:36] <Gekkko> kernel debugger doesn't like me any more
[14:17:00] <Tempt> Gekkko: Congratulations, you have been invaded with the lolspeak distributed so lovingly in #opensolaris by LeftWing and myself.
[14:17:23] <Gekkko> what, oh noes?
[14:17:26] <Teltariat> ye gods!
[14:17:27] <Gekkko> I've said that forever.
[14:17:28] <Gekkko> lol
[14:17:36] <Gekkko> but I did \ instead of /
[14:17:39] <Gekkko> thats why kmdb didnt like me
[14:17:58] <Pietro_S> hmm, does enlarging video works in mplayer in opensolaris?
[14:17:58] <mritun_> uh
[14:18:03] <mritun_> famous problem
[14:18:24] <mritun_> especially over remote terminal clients who think every ^C is for them :-/
[14:18:47] <mritun_> I try to ^C to get out of \ madness and the connection terminates
[14:18:53] <Gekkko> lol
[14:18:59] <Gekkko> you lose :P
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[14:19:28] <Gekkko> alright
[14:19:31] <Gekkko> my install is done
[14:19:34] <Gekkko> now I'm lost :D
[14:19:34] * mritun_ can't even understand why the key is there on unix boxen
[14:19:54] <mritun_> the only lame excuse is C... it uses the key as "escape" sequence...
[14:20:11] <Gekkko> omg wtf
[14:20:21] <Gekkko> this SXCE is an absolute fucking login nija
[14:20:24] <Gekkko> ninja*
[14:20:28] <LeftWing> mritun_: Plenty of things use the backslash key to escape sequences...
[14:20:31] <trochej> Pietro_S: Yes
[14:20:38] <Gekkko> it threatens me with all these sendmail errors then ninja loads a GUI login
[14:20:50] <Tempt> ninja loads
[14:20:51] <mritun_> LeftWing: yeah... and that "everything" got that idea from C
[14:20:58] 
[14:20:58] <Teltariat> Fucking i810 keeps crashing, even on a recent SX build (64a)
[14:21:00] <Tempt> LeftWing: 'ello
[14:21:07] <WickedWicky> hey all
[14:21:09] <LeftWing> Tempt: Hello Mr Tempt.
[14:21:32] <Gekkko> my god it takes ages to reboot >_>
[14:21:56] <mritun_> Gekkko: yeah... boot archive nonsense
[14:22:03] <Gekkko> wtf is it
[14:22:23] <LeftWing> It's a big archive with lots of files.  But that's not important now.
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[14:22:31] <Pietro_S> trochej: gui setting doesn't work?
[14:22:36] <mritun_> well apparantly kernel loses directions if it doesn't know what happened last time
[14:22:48] 
[14:22:53] <mritun_> LeftWing: ??
[14:23:05] <mritun_> "not important now" ??
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[14:23:19] <mritun_> so why does it waste so much time syncing and updating it ?
[14:23:31] <LeftWing> mritun_: I apologise, it was a sarcastic popular culture reference. =P
[14:23:33] <Tempt> for grub
[14:23:41] <Tempt> It's a grubtastic grubby thing with grubs.
[14:23:50] <mritun_> ow :-/
[14:24:01] <Pietro_S> trochej: thanks, it works
[14:24:30] <mritun_> the utter nonsense is that, it *always* knows when it's out of sync
[14:24:49] <mritun_> but it needs *you* to login on console, and manually update and then reboot
[14:25:03] <Gekkko> [21:55:32] <seanmcg> ya, Gekkko in the grub menu you can try adding: -B idle_cpu_prefer_mwait=0  which may make it permanant.. <-- doesn't work
[14:25:04] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: you still anout?
[14:25:07] <mritun_> if it is so damn sure, why doesn't it do that by itself ?
[14:25:17] <Tempt> around, yes
[14:25:20] <Tempt> anout, no.
[14:25:58] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: got the lsi drivers to link to the card - driver_alias file make life easier
[14:26:12] <seanmcg> Gekkko: where are you adding it ?
[14:26:29] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: will flash after lunch
[14:26:40] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: Cool. Best of luck with that.
[14:27:07] <KMays> Teltariat <- You need to get SXCE 69... driver support better..
[14:27:18] <Gekkko> seanmcg: first line
[14:27:22] <Gekkko> kernel etc
[14:27:48] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: also got a problem - drives are coming up with speed of async narrow - would having two devices on the same id cause this?
[14:27:56] <seanmcg> from the bootup grub or the menu.lst ?
[14:28:43] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: Could be anything at this point.
[14:28:50] <jpdrawneek> ok
[14:28:51] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: Try running one drive and see how it goes.
[14:29:04] <jpdrawneek> its only got one drive
[14:29:37] <jpdrawneek> host id and array processor seem to have same id
[14:31:38] <Tempt> That's not good
[14:32:18] <Gekkko> seanmcg: from the bootup
[14:32:25] <Gekkko> as in, press e and add it
[14:32:34] <Gekkko> but my god Solaris is sleek :o
[14:32:41] <Gekkko> just one issue: the registration wizard wont work
[14:32:46] <Gekkko> tell me some login error
[14:32:58] <Pietro_S> is there any mixer for sun audio?
[14:33:39] <Pietro_S> I muted it (from mplayer) and now I can't unmute it :-(
[14:33:55] <nightswim> cant mplayer unmute it?
[14:34:37] <ofu> sunsolve not working? my 10_Recommended.zip is 33MByte
[14:36:29] <KMays> :(
[14:36:45] <KMays> Solaris 10u4 remains all pain...
[14:36:52] <Gekkko> omg
[14:36:57] <Pietro_S> nope mplayer can't do reverse action, I fear that sun audio crashed ....
[14:36:57] <Gekkko> open works on a UNIX OS
[14:36:59] <Gekkko> that's a fucking first.
[14:37:40] <ofu> KMays: so u4 will be out in august?
[14:38:16] *** calumb is now known as calLNCH
[14:38:49] <KMays> Yes. By next week. Hear it was respun recently.
[14:38:49] <Gekkko> hmm
[14:38:55] <Gekkko> where's a really good newbies guide
[14:39:44] <seanmcg> docs.sun.com ?
[14:41:07] <KMays> You'll have to check with Sun on it needing certain patches.
[14:42:55] <Gekkko> hmm
[14:42:56] <Gekkko> pkgadd
[14:43:04] <Gekkko> it doesn't have a repo does it
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[14:47:04] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: done the firmware - what other stuff should i break?
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[14:47:57] <seanmcg> Gekkko: sorry the -B stuff is for the eeprom like things.  No 'permanant way' for this then :(
[14:48:30] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: See if it fixes it.
[14:48:34] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: If it works, cheer.
[14:48:35] <jpdrawneek> k
[14:48:40] <jmcp> seanmcg: unless you add it to /boot/grub/menu.lst, surely
[14:49:19] <seanmcg> jmcp: how then ?  Can't seem to pass a kernel var via grub...  the -B stuff is for eeprom vars
[14:49:46] <jmcp> seanmcg: with vi? or have I missed some relevant context?
[14:50:36] <Gekkko> hmm
[14:50:44] <seanmcg> adding '-B kernel_var=0xX' to the lin e in grub doesn't work.
[14:50:48] <Gekkko> I must be retarded
[14:50:55] <Gekkko> I have no idea how to add a package
[14:50:57] <Gekkko> other than source
[14:51:02] <seanmcg> pkgadd ?
[14:51:03] <Tempt> pkgadd
[14:51:09] <Gekkko> yeah that
[14:51:14] <jmcp> did we mention pkgadd already?
[14:51:15] <Gekkko> but it's not connected to any repo
[14:51:20] <Tempt> repo?
[14:51:22] <Gekkko> as far as I can see.
[14:51:25] <jmcp> wtf is this "repo" you keep talking about?
[14:51:29] <Gekkko> lol
[14:51:31] <Gekkko> repository?
[14:51:35] <Tempt> Repo man! Reposessing your stuff is the hardest part of my job.
[14:51:35] <jmcp> for what?
[14:51:42] <Gekkko> I have read the manual
[14:51:45] <purserj> I sense a linux user
[14:51:52] <Gekkko> i realise it just "adds" the package to the system
[14:52:01] <Gekkko> purserj: yep <_<
[14:52:07] <Gekkko> lol
[14:52:09] <jmcp> Gekkko: which package do you want to install?
[14:52:16] <jmcp> Gekkko: and *please* stop your lol-ing
[14:52:18] <Gekkko> right now? irssi
[14:52:19] <jmcp> it's fucking annoyign
[14:52:36] <jmcp> Gekkko: www.blastwave.org. look for "packages" look for irssi
[14:52:40] <jmcp> pull down "pkg-get"
[14:52:48] <jmcp> install pkg-get following the info @ blastwave.org
[14:52:50] <purserj> Gekkko: don't worry, I'm one as well. Solaris package management doesn't work in the same way as linux
[14:52:58] <Tempt> If you had a SPARC I could give you my packages for irssi
[14:53:00] <jmcp> Gekkko: use mirror.pacific.net.au for your local mirror site
[14:53:03] <Tempt> It builds from source easily anyway.
[14:53:57] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: no joy
[14:54:10] <Tempt> That stinks.
[14:54:19] <Tempt> Did it upgrade the FCODE as well as the controller firmware?
[14:54:26] <Tempt> Sometimes FCODE is in a different download
[14:54:53] <Tempt> Also perhaps lsiutils gives you an option to disable FCODE support entirely, since you're not booting off it.
[14:54:58] <jpdrawneek> no
[14:55:25] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: fcode is the same
[14:55:33] <Tempt> perhaps you can disable it
[14:56:04] <Gekkko> Yay I have nano
[14:56:10] * jmcp shudders
[14:56:11] <Gekkko> until I can teach myself to use vi happily
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[14:56:26] <Gekkko> vi always threatens me with the constant beeping
[14:56:30] <seanmcg> Gekkko: start learning ed first :)
[14:56:35] <Gekkko> and the capitalising of everythign when I press pg up
[14:56:39] <Gekkko> seanmcg: I'm fine with ed :P
[14:56:57] <seanmcg> /usr/bin/ed ?
[14:57:06] <tsoome> have you created bindings for pgup etc?
[14:57:09] <Gekkko> GNU ed >_>
[14:57:10] <Gekkko> anyway
[14:57:13] <Gekkko> must go :D
[14:57:14] <jmcp> Gekkko: that's because page-up emits escape and control codes, which vi happily interprets for you
[14:57:15] <Gekkko> ttyl guys
[14:57:18] <jmcp> ciao
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[14:57:45] <Tempt> haha
[14:57:57] <Tempt> You scared him off with the evil "vi"
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[14:58:19] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: i got a bios update, no fcode update - is the fcode in there?
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[14:58:37] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: No idea.
[14:58:40] <jmcp> unlikely
[14:58:44] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: If it didn't fix your problem I guess not.
[14:58:53] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: Try fiddling with lsiutils.
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[14:58:57] <jmcp> lsi don't tend to distribute both fcode and bios updates within th esame package
[14:59:02] <Tempt> The whole sorry state could be caused by your ID conflict, you know
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[14:59:54] <jmcp> jpdrawneek: you mentioned an array processor - which array is this?
[15:00:58] <jpdrawneek> jmcp: storageworks 4214r
[15:01:42] <jmcp> do you have something at target id 14 or 15?
[15:01:51] <jpdrawneek> yes
[15:02:11] <jmcp> let me guess - the ses device ie array processor ?
[15:02:19] <jpdrawneek> the fw seems to have done the trick - disk is now at 160
[15:02:39] <jpdrawneek> jmcp: yes
[15:03:21] <jmcp> please tell me that you don't have a disk that thinks it should be target 14 or 15.....
[15:03:24] <jpdrawneek> also the itmpt drivers seem to be better than mpt
[15:04:00] <jpdrawneek> disk scsi id 15
[15:04:15] <jpdrawneek> well target id 15
[15:04:31] <jmcp> jpdrawneek: if it's the same underlying hardware that I think it is, it's a *really* good idea to not have any disks thinking they should be targets 14 or 15
[15:04:54] <jpdrawneek> so i can't use the last two bays in my array then?
[15:05:53] <jmcp> here's what I think is going on - I reckon your array is effectively the same as a Sun D1000. There was a problem with that unit when you tried to use a disk at target 14 or 15, because it conflicted with the ses target. This caused bus hangs and all sorts of other disgusting behaviour.
[15:06:20] <jpdrawneek> disk works fine now
[15:06:27] <jmcp> that's great
[15:06:42] <jmcp> I'm quite happy if you don't have to make use of the above info
[15:06:47] <jpdrawneek> did the firmware update and it went to the right speed
[15:06:47] <Tempt> Peachy. Happy zpools all 'round.
[15:06:57] <jpdrawneek> thats the plan
[15:07:13] <jpdrawneek> now back to why the bloody thing does not boot :(
[15:09:32] <jpdrawneek> David hollister came up with the description of whats going on with the disk and why theres a hack to get them to work
[15:09:45] <jmcp> DH is a very reliable source
[15:09:56] <jpdrawneek> problem is that the fix requires jumpers which don't exist on my hdd
[15:10:32] <jpdrawneek> could be firmware on the disks?  there hp branded
[15:11:19] <jpdrawneek> firmware HPB3/HPB4 - what ever that means
[15:13:15] <jmcp> you'll have to ask HP
[15:13:41] <jpdrawneek> and i got a nasty feeling what they would say :)
[15:13:52] <jmcp> "no support contract, go away <click>"
[15:13:59] <Tempt> maybe just one of your disks is dead
[15:14:07] <Tempt> pull 'em all out and add 'em back one by one
[15:14:18] <jpdrawneek> they all work fine
[15:14:41] 
[15:14:41] 
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[15:14:51] <jpdrawneek> thats the problem
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[15:15:28] <jmcp> what obp version is this?
[15:15:49] <jpdrawneek> does not say
[15:15:59] <jpdrawneek> could be all version 3.XX
[15:16:09] <jmcp> which version do *you* have?
[15:16:17] <jpdrawneek> 3.31
[15:16:50] <Tempt> Well, I guess you'll have to either put up with it .. or not have your storage.
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[15:18:03] <jmcp> hile_: evening
[15:18:17] <jpdrawneek> probably could try changing the boot disks
[15:18:44] <jpdrawneek> but thats needs a re-install :( how long till update 4?
[15:18:53] <hile_> morning jmcp
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[15:22:09] <jmcp> gnite all
[15:22:29] <Tempt> Goodnight.
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[15:24:33] <jpdrawneek> Tempt: night and ta
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[15:26:51] <Gekkko[PDA]> I'm back, still irssi-less :-/
[15:27:07] <WickedWicky> compile irssii from spec file
[15:27:10] <WickedWicky> I just did that
[15:27:11] * WickedWicky feels l33t
[15:27:36] <Gekkko[PDA]> no, i mean remotely
[15:27:44] <WickedWicky> ah, no shell
[15:28:00] <Gekkko[PDA]> I need a shell :/
[15:29:09] <Gekkko[PDA]> I wonder how I should learn Solaris inside-out.
[15:30:01] <purserj> break it and then fix it
[15:30:22] <Gekkko[PDA]> no, I mean what everything does
[15:30:30] <Gekkko[PDA]> how to manage it
[15:30:44] <Gekkko[PDA]> then disaster management :P
[15:30:53] <purserj> do a solaris admin course?
[15:31:00] <Gekkko[PDA]> $$$
[15:31:12] <Gekkko[PDA]> school.
[15:31:15] <Gekkko[PDA]> etc.
[15:32:04] <sle> get involved in opensolaris ;P
[15:32:07] <Tempt> Just screw around with it
[15:32:18] <Tempt> You'll get there.
[15:32:25] <Gekkko[PDA]> don't know where to begin
[15:32:29] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol
[15:32:47] <Gekkko[PDA]> goal 1
[15:33:11] <Gekkko[PDA]> learn vi, and stop using enter as a fucking comma
[15:33:16] <sle> vim!!
[15:33:26] <Gekkko[PDA]> vi first.
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[15:34:33] <sle> most people i know tend to learn an editor as a consequence of doing something else
[15:34:35] <Gekkko[PDA]> I hate emacs, so many hotkeys, so little point.
[15:35:10] <Gekkko[PDA]> I gave SXCE 18gb of space.
[15:35:10] <sle> i mean, you can go through vimtutor or whatever as many times as you'd like, but you're not going to remember anything if you don't have anything to do with it
[15:35:34] <Gekkko[PDA]> vim isn't the same as vi
[15:35:39] <Gekkko[PDA]> vi is threateninh
[15:35:48] <Gekkko[PDA]> it beeps at me >.>
[15:36:04] <Tempt> Just get things rolling
[15:36:11] <Tempt> Set up a few web instances
[15:36:16] <Gekkko[PDA]> the console beep in solaris is different to the one dos and linux make :o
[15:36:17] <Tempt> Roll through a security audit
[15:36:24] <Tempt> recompile the OS
[15:37:02] <Gekkko[PDA]> should i add /opt/csw/bin to PATH?
[15:37:07] <Tempt> If you want
[15:37:19] <sle> the great thing about sun is that they give out a lot of powerful software for free
[15:37:26] <Gekkko[PDA]> tab completion, i need that :o
[15:37:42] <sle> if you have enough spare hardware, you can mess around with high availability, directory services, etc
[15:37:49] <Gekkko[PDA]> tab = tab isn't cool lol
[15:38:04] <sle> use bash?
[15:38:13] <Tempt> Use your head?
[15:38:18] <Gekkko[PDA]> I don't, unless amiga 500's run solaris
[15:38:29] <Gekkko[PDA]> bash yes.
[15:38:32] <Tempt> By thumping it into the keyboard lots of times, you'll eventually get the right command
[15:38:33] <Gekkko[PDA]> head no.
[15:38:38] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol
[15:38:59] <Gekkko[PDA]> I don't want another anurism.
[15:40:41] <Gekkko[PDA]> I like how when I download a pdf, Open work in _Firefox
[15:40:47] <Tempt> Why aren't you irc'ing from your new machine, anyway?
[15:40:50] <Gekkko[PDA]> i nearly shit myself.
[15:41:08] <Gekkko[PDA]> parents got all shitty at me.
[15:41:19] <Gekkko[PDA]> >.>
[15:41:40] <Tempt> huh?
[15:42:00] <Gekkko[PDA]> they kicked me off.
[15:42:33] <Tempt> Time to get your own PC.
[15:42:53] <Gekkko[PDA]>  It is my pc >.,
[15:43:29] <WickedWicky> eh
[15:44:43] * sle waits for a flood of swatch alerts from all the machines he patched
[15:45:43] <Gekkko[PDA]> sendmail hates me
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[15:51:32] <Tempt> svcadm disable sendmail
[15:51:43] <sle> pkgrm even ;P
[15:51:44] <Gekkko[PDA]> when i'm on it
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[15:52:36] <tsoome> if you cant get sendmail friendly, maybe its best to stick with windows...
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[15:55:03] <Gekkko[PDA]> tsoome: it threatens me on first boot >.>
[15:55:17] <PerterB> you can't make sendmail friendly, the best you can do is cow it into submission
[15:55:35] <Tempt> If you can't make sendmail friendly, you've got exim, postfix, qmail, ...
[15:55:36] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol
[15:55:56] <purserj> Tempt: can anyone make sendmail friendly?
[15:56:40] <Gekkko[PDA]> urggg upIRC sucks!
[15:57:02] <tsoome> Gekkko[PDA]: so?
[15:57:12] <sle> sun's sendmail patches don't help, either, by always clobbering my config files
[15:57:37] <tsoome> sle: you are supposed to use m4 macros to build config
[15:57:52] <tsoome> not .cf directly
[15:58:25] <sle> we have a bunch of systems with identical config, so it's just easier for us to push out the compiled configs
[15:59:08] <sle> the hard part is remembering to do it after i patch
[15:59:19] * sle mutters something about setting up cfengine
[15:59:39] <tsoome> yes. but if they dont overwrite it, ppl will never update it after patch
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[16:00:23] <sle> yeah, but there could be better ways to handle it
[16:00:57] <Tempt> pkgrm sendmail
[16:01:05] <sle> maybe project indiana will improve the patch/package tools
[16:01:08] <Tempt> That's the solution.
[16:01:19] <Tempt> If you're running an actual mailserver, build your own
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[16:01:27] <Tempt> If you're not running a mailserver, build your own.
[16:02:31] *** Gekkko[PDA] has joined #opensolaris
[16:02:42] <Gekkko[PDA]> i left...?
[16:02:52] <Gekkko[PDA]> i don't even know how
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[16:06:59] <coffman> time for my daily bitch
[16:07:07] <Tempt> bitch ahoy!
[16:07:09] <bda> What's her name?
[16:07:10] <coffman> where the hell is b70?
[16:08:19] <PerterB> did you check behind the sofa?
[16:08:24] <jpdrawneek> still in bed - she lazy
[16:08:34] <Cyrille> it's probably where you left it.
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[16:09:38] <purserj[sol]> well that wasn't so bad
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[16:25:39] <Gekkko[PDA]> weeeeeeeee
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[16:45:18] <pde> . o O { /topic Waiting for docs.sun.com... }
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[16:59:37] <jafari> hello folx, question
[16:59:43] <jafari> Is the 'nice' command useful on a multi-CPU UNIX system?
[17:00:32] <Tempt> yes
[17:00:44] <Tempt> but investigate priority control - better than nice.
[17:01:26] <jafari> what u mean investigate priority control
[17:02:14] <Tempt> priocntl command
[17:03:01] <jafari> Which private address space is better, 10.x.x.x or 192.168.x.x?   why?
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[17:03:17] <mritun_> 10.x
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[17:03:37] <mritun_> because sometime later you'd find that you need more subnets
[17:03:44] <jafari> cool
[17:04:03] <mritun_> and then you can use 192.168.x in those subnets
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[17:04:38] <iMax> well 10.x.x.x should give you enough subnets, so you do not need 192.168.x.x as well :)
[17:04:56] <Tempt> You've got a big network if you fill 10/8
[17:05:41] <mritun_> iMax: not exactly
[17:05:48] <mritun_> case study :
[17:05:52] <jafari> Is standard e-mail transfer secure? Why not? How would you make it secure?
[17:06:05] <mritun_> Home is connected to internet with a DSL router
[17:06:08] <mritun_> (non wifi)
[17:06:20] <trygvis> jafari: are you trying to get someone else to do your homework?
[17:06:32] <jafari> heheh no,
[17:06:34] <jafari> im just not sure
[17:06:37] <mritun_> you pick up a wireless router, but then you also need the adsl because you have it from the telco
[17:06:54] <Tempt> Man, these really are homework questions.
[17:07:05] <mritun_> you can have the telco adsl on 10.x and the wifi router at 192.x
[17:07:06] <Tempt> They are even phrased like homework questions.
[17:07:17] <mritun_> this way you can manage the adsl one too
[17:07:18] <trygvis> indeed
[17:07:27] <Tempt> Note the perfect spelling/capitalisation/grammer on the questions, but not on the followup comments
[17:08:24] <Tempt> mritun_: In your example, you'd use 10.1 for one network and 10.2 for another without cramping your style.
[17:08:28] <trygvis> wtf: b. Linux support for Sun Logical Domains is expected to be provided as a result of a community effort.
[17:08:45] <Tempt> trygvis: Source?
[17:09:07] <aruiz> trygvis, is it wrong?
[17:09:09] <trygvis> http://www.sun.com/servers/coolthreads/ldoms/index.xml -> Architecture White Paper
[17:09:11] <iMax> mritun_: sure, but I guess for home networks you could be fne with 192.168.x.x as well if you just use /24 netmasks, it is just a matter of taste probably
[17:09:16] <Tempt> Fair cop.
[17:09:32] <Tempt> If Linux types want to use LDOMs, they get to write their own code
[17:09:35] <mritun_> naah
[17:09:40] <Tempt> It is, after all, an Open Source CPU ;)
[17:09:46] <mritun_> 10.1 ans 10.2 would need bitchy netmasks
[17:09:57] <Tempt> huh?
[17:10:02] <Tempt> 255.255.0.0
[17:10:04] <aruiz> trygvis, what's wrong with community efforts?
[17:10:11] <Tempt> That's "bitchy"?
[17:10:15] <trygvis> aruiz: nothing and neither did I say so
[17:10:16] <iMax> :)
[17:10:19] <mritun_> and routing for 10.1 from 10.2 ?
[17:10:47] <Tempt> mritun_: Hey, I'm not doing a sales job on the 10/8 IP space
[17:10:51] <mritun_> hmm, on other side, you're probably right
[17:10:52] <iMax> hehe
[17:11:05] <mritun_>  /24 on the adsl
[17:11:14] <mritun_> and /16 behind the router
[17:11:17] <mritun_> should do fine
[17:11:26] <Tempt> I can't imagine the average consumer broadband 'router' dealing with thousands of hosts anyway.
[17:11:34] <mritun_> well, in every case, 10.x wins
[17:11:36] <iMax> mritun_: you still need routing somehow...what kind of numbers you use is more up to you I would say
[17:11:59] <Tempt> Go old-school and use real IPs everywhere.
[17:12:04] <iMax> :)
[17:12:05] <mritun_> Tempt: average customer doesn't even need to ask the question
[17:12:06] <iMax> go ipv6!
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[17:12:52] <jafari> thanks for the help guys
[17:12:56] <mritun_> but when dealing with things like DMZ, etc, I've found 10.x gives better flexibility
[17:12:57] <Tempt> Or ipV8 - vroom! vroom!
[17:13:04] <iMax> hehe
[17:13:14] <Tempt> Hope you get good marks.
[17:13:15] <jafari> its not homework its just some question that this job is asking wanted to know if my asnwer was close to you guys
[17:13:22] <mritun_> ipv6 support in apps is a bitch
[17:13:35] <Tempt> ipv6 across-the-board is a bitch at the moment.
[17:13:38] <iMax> mritun_: yeah, you are more flexible you if you want to divide your network furhter
[17:13:39] <mritun_> some network monitoring tools don't take v6 addresses :-/
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[17:14:04] <Tempt> I'll be a long time before ipv6 settles in.
[17:14:04] <mritun_> (esp the cheap ones... they get the job done though)
[17:14:10] <iMax> still a long way to go for ipv6 support
[17:14:19] <Tempt> mritun_: I prefer my routers to run IOS
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[17:14:32] <mritun_> Tempt: poor you.
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[17:14:56] <mritun_> how's the maintenance and patching going anyways ?
[17:15:24] <mritun_> Juniper's are better :-P
[17:15:32] <Tempt> I can't afford Juniper for home.
[17:15:33] <mritun_> (and cheaper)
[17:15:47] <mritun_> hmm, but you can a Cisco ?
[17:16:03] <Tempt> Sure. There's a lively kickin' second hand market for Cisco.
[17:16:12] <mritun_> aha
[17:16:18] <mritun_> and patches ?
[17:16:24] <Tempt> Not to mention everywhere I've worked has been a Cisco shop with mountains of last-gen network gear on the shitepile.
[17:16:33] <mritun_> I believe cisco doesn't honor second sales
[17:16:56] <Tempt> IOS revisions land from the floaty place in the sky.
[17:16:58] <mritun_> so you're SOL with support/patches
[17:16:58] <Tempt> :)
[17:17:05] <mritun_> aha :P
[17:17:15] <Tempt> It's like Solaris patches.
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[17:17:35] <Tempt> People have plenty of contract numbers for the systems they administer professionally.
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[17:17:44] <Tempt> And those patches tend to get applied to their home systems as well.
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[17:18:23] <mritun_> dc
[17:18:30] <mritun_> opera crashed :-/
[17:18:46] <iMax> opera has an irc client?
[17:18:51] <trygvis> yep
[17:19:00] <mritun_> yep
[17:19:04] <iMax> interesting :)
[17:19:09] <mritun_> and a bittorrent client too :D
[17:19:16] <mritun_> and RSS
[17:19:22] <mritun_> and IMAP/POP
[17:19:31] <mritun_> (list goes on)
[17:19:36] <iMax> ahh...a whole suite :)
[17:19:37] <Tempt> Opera does everything.
[17:19:41] <mritun_> yep
[17:19:44] <mritun_> in 4.4 megs
[17:19:49] <Tempt> And it does it better than firefox.
[17:19:58] <Tempt> I proclaim Opera to be a fist full of win.
[17:20:01] <mritun_> yeps
[17:20:05] <mritun_> even crashing
[17:20:14] <Tempt> Pretty stable really.
[17:20:15] <iMax> Tempt: I never considered using any server or network equipment at home, it is usually quite noise and uses a lot of power, no?
[17:20:33] <Tempt> Less restarts than FireFox, and less patches. I'd swear there's a new firefox update every second day.
[17:20:50] <iMax> hmm..only looked at opera once....did not like something....could not remember now... :)
[17:20:52] <Tempt> iMax: Personal choice. I use real hardware at home.
[17:21:09] * mritun_ wants simpler things at home
[17:21:18] <Tempt> iMax: But I don't really mind paying a little more in power costs; the extra value I get from my machines covers it.
[17:21:25] <mritun_> I don't want to wage WW-II at home with equipment
[17:21:40] <mritun_> with already WW-I raging outside
[17:21:46] <Tempt> If you're the kinda guy who likes a single silent desktop on a clean desk - then having a v880 at home isn't a good thing.
[17:21:57] <iMax> Tempt: sure, if you have a room or a 19" rack where you can place it in.
[17:22:08] <Tempt> Sure do.
[17:22:13] <LeftWing> Unless it's in the garage
[17:22:16] <LeftWing> And you have Sun Rays.
[17:22:16] <Tempt> Although my 880 isn't racked.
[17:22:21] <Tempt> And I have SunRays!
[17:22:26] <mritun_> wowie
[17:22:34] <iMax> I don't do anything major at home, so a desktop is fine for me...for the rest I use the big serverroom at work :)
[17:22:35] <Tempt> And SunRays are little shining beacons of happiness
[17:22:35] <mritun_> the best combination
[17:22:36] <nikinana> /cs help register
[17:22:39] <iMax> hehe
[17:23:29] * mritun_ would buy a T2 and a bunch of rays when his bank balance is overflows
[17:23:34] <iMax> :)
[17:23:50] <iMax> so you could start working in the living room and continue the session in your bed later?
[17:23:55] <LeftWing> Opteron kit is much cheaper. =P
[17:23:59] <mritun_> naah
[17:24:05] <mritun_> one session everywhere (TM)
[17:24:19] <mritun_> LeftWing: yep, but hardly as exciting
[17:24:27] <Tempt> LeftWing: Yes, but SPARC hardware is moar funs!
[17:24:38] <iMax> :)
[17:24:39] <LeftWing> Indeed.
[17:24:48] <mritun_> actually I think the T2 machines would be 1/2 width
[17:25:15] <mritun_> there isn't anything funky needed in there as everything on the chip
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[17:26:12] <mritun_> so except for sockets for RAM/power/PCIe cards/NICs I don't foresee anything else in the box
[17:26:53] <mritun_> It'd be fun squared if the thing comes in Mac Mini sized luch boxes :D
[17:27:02] <iMax> ehhe
[17:27:07] <mritun_> lunch*
[17:27:32] <mritun_> I think Sun should pull off that stunt
[17:27:41] <mritun_> would be a killer publicity :D
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[17:28:09] <sle> the thing i like most about SPARC kit is OBP+LOM
[17:28:10] <mritun_> Project Blackbox Mini ;)
[17:28:26] <Tempt> Need to put the giant fans somewhere though.
[17:28:27] <sle> IPMI/SPs just aren't the same :/
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[17:29:08] <mritun_> Tempt: what giant fans ?
[17:29:26] <mritun_> 90W TDP is not insane heat
[17:29:48] <mritun_> especially without all the northbridge etc crap in there
[17:29:55] <sle> nothing like trying to re-install solaris 10 on a v40z in the middle of the night and having the SP go bonkers on you
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[17:30:30] <Tempt> See? This is why we stick to SPARC
[17:30:52] <Tempt> mritun_: If the cooling system is anything like the T2000, the N2 boxes will sound like a small aircraft engine spooling up
[17:31:05] <sle> i'm a fan of SPARC kit; i just wish it was cheaper
[17:31:14] <mritun_> Tempt: T2k has T1 processor
[17:31:25] <sle> our computer lab still has Blade 100s going strong
[17:31:26] <mritun_> which isn't an SoC, and isn't even in same league
[17:31:36] <mritun_> T2 moniker is a misnomer, I think
[17:31:42] <sle> compared to our dying dells
[17:31:43] <mritun_> this processor is game changing
[17:32:40] <Tempt> anyway, sleeeepytime
[17:32:45] <mritun_> its a single proc
[17:32:56] <sle> mritun_: maybe when LDoms get better
[17:33:24] <mritun_> so except for peripheral and RAM connectors, it should be a pretty simple board on which it fits
[17:34:02] <mritun_> may be like the PC104 cards that are famous in industrial PCs
[17:35:16] <sle> mmm, industrial PCs
[17:35:40] <sle> they're a great example of how to make simple things overly complicated
[17:36:25] <mritun_> right
[17:36:41] <mritun_> but nothing else works at 50C
[17:36:50] <mritun_> on the shop floor
[17:37:41] <sle> it gets more fun when you're dealing with things out in the middle of the desert
[17:38:22] * sle is happy dealing with servers for now, rather than writing ladder logic
[17:38:56] <mritun_> hehe
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[17:44:43] <reflect> how can you force an ATA device into a particular transfer mode..   for instance, PIO or UDMA4?
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[17:45:18] <trygvis> I would think that it would be something you can set in the ata.conf file under /platform
[17:46:24] <reflect> excellent, I'll go read the man pages.. thanks, man
[17:46:39] <trygvis> np dude
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[17:49:48] <reflect> ata-disk-dma-enabled=0 seems to force the disk to use PIO only
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[18:18:11] <gdamor1> argh.
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[18:31:24] <e^ipi> hey gdamore
[18:31:40] <e^ipi> haven't  seen you in a while
[18:33:17] <gdamore> i've been around, off and on.
[18:33:22] <gdamore> how's the i18n work going?
[18:33:32] <e^ipi> very well
[18:33:42] <gdamore> cool... i should check your blog, i suppose.
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[18:34:02] <e^ipi> i'm stripping private functions out of mapfile-vers in an attempt to get libc to build with my code in it
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[18:35:23] <gdamore> excellent.
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[18:36:58] * oninoshiko sighs
[18:37:23] <oninoshiko> are the jive forums acting weird or is it me?
[18:37:28] *** yanyh has joined #opensolaris
[18:38:50] <yanyh> is there some big player here from solaris or sun?
[18:39:22] <gdamore> "big player"?
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[18:39:57] <gdamore> there are certainly people here with commit access... but I don't know if there are any senior managers or directors or VPs here...
[18:40:02] <yanyh> like those key person that impacts the future of solaris
[18:40:28] <gdamore> anyone can do that... simply submit an ARC case. :-)
[18:40:31] <oninoshiko> well your here...
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[18:41:06] <yanyh> not that easy, solaris is being hold tightly
[18:41:22] <gdamore> well, we don't just allow willy nilly changes.
[18:41:34] <gdamore> but anyone can offer up code.... there is still an ARC board though.
[18:41:39] <oninoshiko> actually you do... its called a "fork"
[18:41:57] <gdamore> i'm an ARC intern.  I think others are here.    probably also full ARC members.
[18:42:12] <yanyh> what is ARC?
[18:42:20] <gdamore> Architectural Review Commitee.
[18:42:41] <yanyh> are they developers of solaris, or just politics
[18:42:54] <gdamore> ARC is made up of engineers.
[18:43:08] <yanyh> that is great
[18:43:37] <gdamore> obviously you had a question.  what was it?
[18:43:38] <oninoshiko> hrm... is there any reason i cant seem to attach a file to a forum posting anymore?
[18:43:43] <delewis>  http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/
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[18:45:49] <yanyh> delewis: are you telling me the page that i can find the arc member?
[18:45:52] <yanyh> i cannot find
[18:46:09] <hile_> hey delewis.
[18:46:10] <gdamore> i can probably help.
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[18:46:25] <gdamore> there are a number of ARC members, and there are several ARCs.
[18:46:57] <gdamore> you probably don't need a full ARC member... an ARC intern is probably adequate.
[18:47:00] <oninoshiko> when i select "Attach a file" it says in red on the file attachment page "You are not allowed to edit this message."
[18:47:03] <yanyh> there is OpenSolaris Governing Board?
[18:47:07] <gdamore> yes.
[18:47:17] <gdamore> the OGB doesn't deal with technical issues though.
[18:47:37] <gdamore> they're more governance for the larger OpenSolaris group.  they deal with the politics.
[18:47:54] <yanyh> ARC for technical
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[18:47:57] <gdamore> yes.
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[18:48:16] <yanyh> that is good, politics is necessnary as well as technical :)
[18:48:27] <oninoshiko> but its my message and my thread >_<
[18:48:35] <yanyh> they just have to work together well
[18:48:46] <gdamore> are you in the process of trying to understand governance and process... or are you trying to achieve something in particular?
[18:49:12] <gdamore> (and yes, for the most part OGB and the ARCs work well.  there are a couple of folks who are both ARC and OGB members, btw.)
[18:49:13] <yanyh> not really,
[18:49:51] <yanyh> i am pretty technical, just want to have an idea of how this organized
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[18:52:49] <oninoshiko> so i can attach files to new threads, but not in replays to old threads o.0
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[18:56:04] <oninoshiko> ok, thats weird
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[19:23:45] <SYS64738> hi
[19:24:02] <SYS64738> is there another way than blastwave to install wget on my system ?
[19:24:04] <SYS64738> in
[19:24:38] <hile_> uh... sure
[19:24:44] <hile_> wget is in /usr/sfw/bin on s10 or newer
[19:25:07] <SYS64738> ups
[19:25:11] <SYS64738> thanks man
[19:27:26] <SYS64738> wow I happy now
[19:27:30] <SYS64738> thanks again
[19:27:31] <SYS64738> bye
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[19:28:25] <bda> If only everone were so easily satisfied, eh?
[19:28:30] <wesolows> my thought exactly
[19:28:56] <richlowe> but remember folks, we aren't approachable, we have a familiarity gap!
[19:29:26] <wesolows> richlowe: I thought I was the most cynical human being alive.  But sometimes I think you have me beat.
[19:30:51] <bda> You're just being cynical about your cynicism. You should be optimistic about your cynicism. You WILL be King of the Grumps.
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[19:33:10] <moazamraja> richlowe scares me.
[19:33:23] <moazamraja> i tend not to ask questions in #opensolaris because of richlowe and co.
[19:33:35] * moazamraja waits for reaction
[19:33:35] <moazamraja> ;)
[19:34:10] * oninoshiko reacts
[19:34:24] <PerterB> then pull yourself together, boy, and show some backbone ;)
[19:34:25] <oninoshiko> exothermically even
[19:35:03] <oninoshiko> well time to switch networks and see WTF is going on the my PRO/1000
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[19:36:53] <gdamore> why are you afraid of richlowe?
[19:37:04] <moazamraja> i'm not
[19:37:10] <moazamraja> but i just wanted to make trouble
[19:37:16] <moazamraja> didn't work
[19:37:19] <gdamore> oh. :-)
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[19:37:21] <moazamraja> next time.
[19:37:24] <moazamraja> ;)
[19:37:34] <palowoda> oninoshiko: Just curious are you seeing troubles with e1000g net seeing packets on the latest builds?
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[19:42:17] <WickedWicky> hellows
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[20:02:39] <Pietro_S> laca, Shiv__ tomww : when C++ library is builded by gcc&sunCC, the gcc version just include usr-gnu.inc and packages will be distant?
[20:08:03] <laca> Pietro_S: good question
[20:08:16] <reflect> I just booted opensolaris from a CompactFlash disk :)
[20:08:17] <laca> including usr-gnu.inc won't magically fix this
[20:09:31] <Pietro_S> that's pity
[20:10:21] <RElling> reflect: cool! how big is the CF?
[20:10:43] <reflect> 2048MB of which I use ~650MB
[20:11:17] <RElling> awesome... I just noticed that one of my lab machines has a CF slot...
[20:12:25] <moazamraja> reflect: major advantage?
[20:12:48] <moazamraja> (s)
[20:12:59] <quasi> reflect: very, very cool!
[20:13:21] <reflect> well, no movable parts for the root disk..  so it's good if you want to build an appliance
[20:13:38] <reflect> on the other hand, it's increeedibly slow compared to harddrives
[20:14:04] <moazamraja> i c
[20:14:07] <gdamore> CF == very low power.
[20:14:17] <sstallion> reflect: why not use a mem fs for the root?
[20:14:27] <sstallion> that should speed things up nicely
[20:14:28] <gdamore> you have to populate the memfs first.
[20:14:33] <sstallion> *nod*
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[20:14:38] <gdamore> and rootdisk perf. is usually not a limiting factor
[20:14:49] <sstallion> gdamore: depends on usage i suppose
[20:15:08] <sstallion> syslog would be... interesting on CF ;)
[20:15:10] <gdamore> most of the common stuff lives in cache, unless you're doing a lot of GUI stuff for (in which case /usr gets hit hard)
[20:15:18] <RElling> CF reads are fast, writes are slow unless they are 128kByte and aligned
[20:15:19] <reflect> the idea is that you boot from CF (or whatever) and then you have a number of SATA drives to deliver storage.. the root disk will just about never break, so no maintenance on that part, atleast
[20:15:20] <gdamore> for syslog you use mem fs or put /var on a ZFS
[20:15:30] <sstallion> *nod*
[20:15:43] <gdamore> even 128K aligned writes are slow for CF.
[20:15:51] <sstallion> im about to do a similiar project here
[20:15:53] <gdamore> then there is wear levelling to consider.
[20:15:58] <sstallion> need to get a cf based tape appliance going for the DLT
[20:16:30] <sstallion> turns out the drive isnt supported on solaris, so im having to use linux (bleh) so the solaris machines can use the damned drive over iscsi
[20:17:22] <RElling> ? a DLT that doesn't "support" Solaris?
[20:17:31] <sstallion> sata-II :/
[20:17:39] <sstallion> got it for a steal... now i know why ;)
[20:17:39] <richlowe> and that "just about never break" doesn't seem to be acompanied by redundancy, in the above.
[20:17:40] <RElling> ah
[20:17:47] <richlowe> so if and when it finally does, you're super-hosed, rather than just hosed.
[20:18:12] <RElling> CFs are about an order of magnitude more reliable than disks
[20:18:16] <sstallion> a zfs mirror set once zfs boot is setup would be ideal
[20:18:27] <RElling> zfs copies=2
[20:18:57] <reflect> richlowe: well, for an appliance I think a CF disk would be good enough when it comes to the 'not breaking' part
[20:20:03] <sommerfeld> for an appliance, having the boot image on CF be immutable would be a big help.
[20:20:10] <sstallion> yup
[20:20:18] <sommerfeld> (you can make as many copies as you need to feel safe..)
[20:20:20] <sstallion> keep a tarball/bzball on there, populate memfs with it at boot
[20:20:40] <sstallion> similiar to how most appliances (ie: cisco routers) function
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[20:21:16] <reflect> interesting
[20:21:26] * reflect goes off to find a nice memfs howto
[20:21:39] <sstallion> minimize write as much as possible (in fact, do away with if you can)
[20:21:44] <gdamore> i did a thin-client solution that used CF in this manner... though I just mounted the CF read-only, rather than wasting ram duplicating the whole root fs.
[20:21:57] <gdamore> then /var was in tmpfs.
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[20:22:09] <sstallion> im torn for this project... ive got 256M of ram and 256M of flash to use
[20:22:24] <reflect> a friend of mine works in a lab testing flash stuff, and it's almost impossible to wreck a decent flash card with regular writes
[20:22:25] <sstallion> all it needs to do is fire up as an iscsi target... should be ample
[20:22:34] <gdamore> 256M flash is too small for OpenSolaris... unless you can *really* prune it down.
[20:22:42] <sstallion> i wish it was osol
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[20:22:52] <gdamore> but you could do it with netbsd easily.
[20:22:58] <sstallion> unfortunately it has to be f'n LFS because sata tape devices arent supported yet
[20:23:02] <gdamore> or... *bletch* linux.
[20:23:05] <sstallion> yeah
[20:23:06] <sstallion> exactly
[20:23:15] <sstallion> its either that or take the time to write a driver
[20:23:28] <gdamore> i might have taken the 2nd choice. :-)
[20:23:37] <sstallion> im still on the fence :)
[20:23:56] <sstallion> im not sure how much work would be involved or even where the hell to start looking
[20:24:19] <sstallion> i could convert that machine into a ref. box if i needed to i suppose
[20:25:19] <sstallion> any ideas? *nudge* *nudge*
[20:32:49] <sstallion> does anyone know offhand where kmod source is kept under /usr/src/uts?
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[20:33:17] <wesolows> depends on the module
[20:33:18] <sommerfeld> what do you mean by "kmod" ?
[20:33:34] <sstallion> sorry, short for kernel module
[20:33:48] <sstallion> more specifically the mt driver
[20:33:53] <wesolows> do you mean the code that deals with module loading, or a specific module?
[20:33:56] <sommerfeld> most of the code under usr/src/uts is kernel module source
[20:34:13] <wesolows> that'd be in common/io/scsi/targets/st (I'd expect)
[20:34:19] <sstallion> got it
[20:34:22] <sstallion> thanks wesolows
[20:37:41] <sstallion> hmm not as bad as i thought.
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[20:54:36] <reflect> hm
[20:54:56] <reflect> is there a list available somewhere of which parameters you can pass to the kernel via grub?
[20:55:25] <reflect> like the ata-dma-enable param.. I need to narrow it down to a specific chain or drive
[20:58:05] <reflect> nevermind, found one on sunsolve
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[20:58:50] <reflect> another question, then.. if I disable DMA for disks in the bios, can osol override it later?
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[21:17:10] <WickedWicky> sommerfeld: I am still busy with this memory check.. it weirds me out. 2/3 memory modules work in bank0/bank1/bank2. one module works in bank0/bank2 and fails in bank1. I took the motherboard out to look if I saw something weird, put the motherboard back, reinserted the faulting memory module into bank1, and no errors
[21:17:53] <Stric> oxidizing on the connectors?
[21:18:04] <sommerfeld> weird.  interesting patterns of crud in the contacts and on the DIMM?
[21:18:33] <WickedWicky> maybe there was some dust on the contacts.. I dunno.... I have all three banks occupied now and no errors so far
[21:19:15] <FrostCS> so far = production ready! woot woot
[21:19:38] <WickedWicky> haha, no no, this is just my AMD Athlon 2400 box running Opensolaris, nothing mission critical
[21:19:57] * FrostCS thinks WickedWicky is hosting the intarweb.
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[21:20:17] <WickedWicky> tomorrow I will get a Sparc 20
[21:20:27] <sstallion> FrostCS: have you ever mixed ldap + netgroups ?
[21:20:29] <WickedWicky> bought it for 5 bucks from a coworker, including the monitor and keyboard
[21:21:07] <FrostCS> sstallion, from memory I am not sure, why do I always get these questions? :-P
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[21:21:15] <Stric> yesterday, a guy dropped by (I work as sysadm at comp sci) and asked if we had a converter from 13w3 to vga so he could connect his ss5 to a vga monitor.. so I gave him a sun 21" and an ultra10 instead ;)
[21:21:20] <sstallion> FrostCS: who knows :)
[21:21:43] <sstallion> running into pain with netgroups and pam auth
[21:21:45] <moazamraja> Stric: did u take his SS5 at least?
[21:21:50] <moazamraja> pizza boxes, good stuff
[21:21:54] <WickedWicky> yea.. this coworker wanted to get rid of his junk, so I told him I'd buy it for two cappucinos :P
[21:21:58] <moazamraja> we need pizza box workstations again
[21:22:02] <Stric> moazamraja: he didn't bring it..
[21:22:09] <sstallion> ie: database server authenticates ldap users just fine, however i have no desire for said users to have access to ssh etc.
[21:22:22] <sstallion> and shutting off ldap auth on ssh just seems like a hack
[21:22:51] <Stric> WickedWicky: a coworker bought a car for a lunch a while back.. the seller had tried to sell it for a while, then got tired of it and accepted "I'll buy you lunch" ;)
[21:23:01] <WickedWicky> LOL
[21:23:02] <WickedWicky> no way
[21:23:05] <Stric> yeah
[21:23:25] <Stric> A Ford Escort
[21:23:29] <Stric> ~15y old
[21:23:33] <reflect> crap.. it seems that in order to boot from the CF card, I have to disable ATA DMA.. but then it won't see my SATA disks.. guess the controller requires DMA to work? weird that they were detected during installation, though..
[21:23:35] <elektronkind> sommerfeld: re: the NDMP ARC case, was the idea of vendor-specific auth mechanisms shot down and we're stuck with plaintext or CRAM-MD5 no matter what?
[21:23:40] <WickedWicky> this coworker has a lot of old stuff.. he also has an old Alpha.. but it can only run Windows NT
[21:24:27] <elektronkind> not even OpenVMS?
[21:24:28] <FrostCS> stallion, it's been a while since I messed with ldap to be honest, I'd probably have to ask the last person I tried to help if we messed with that or not
[21:24:37] <FrostCS> my memory just isn't what it used to be :-)
[21:24:54] <sstallion> no worries :)
[21:24:56] <sommerfeld> elektronkind: i'm missing enough context on NDMP to be certain, but it appears that "CRAM-MD5 or plain" is the only thing the project team is proposing at this time.
[21:25:05] <sstallion> worst case, i'll just bend and drop pam_ldap from other
[21:25:28] <sommerfeld> i'm trying to keep them minimally cryptographically honest
[21:26:53] <elektronkind> it's too bad NDMP as a standard hasn't kept with the times in that department.
[21:27:44] <wesolows> elektronkind: What's your perception of the need?  Is there a particular vendor extension that everyone uses, and if so is it freely implementable?
[21:28:32] <sommerfeld> having nothing stronger than CRAM-MD5 is a problem from a crypto best practices standpoint.
[21:29:04] <wesolows> sure, but I'd rather follow the standard than the best practices, if they're in conflict.
[21:29:38] <wesolows> if we can do both by supporting a particular extension that's wildly popular, so much the better
[21:29:59] <sommerfeld> so we should define CRAM-SHA<n> extensions for all extant SHA<n>
[21:30:07] <elektronkind> I'm just referring to protocols like NDMP that employ weak, yester-year auth mechanisms and/or no layer 4 encryption (like TLS) of payload... features that would be appreciated in environments where NDMP is employed.
[21:30:30] <elektronkind> GSSAPI and be done with it
[21:30:49] <wesolows> elektronkind: Sure, but anything we go do on our own will obviously work only with both Solaris clients and servers.  I was wondering if there were known, published vendor extensions already in use that solve this problem for NDMP.
[21:31:05] <sommerfeld> at least CRAM is better than CHAP
[21:31:11] <wesolows> ugh, CHAP
[21:31:17] <wesolows> and it mutant cousin PAP
[21:31:18] <elektronkind> I see where you're angling, and no there isn't, unfortunately.
[21:31:21] <Stric> ROT13!
[21:31:56] <elektronkind> NDMP's standards body seems rather dormant
[21:32:30] <wesolows> elektronkind: That's unfortunate.  In this case anything we would do would be of minimal value.
[21:32:36] <elektronkind> they got the functionality in the protocol, just no real stewardship beyond it.
[21:33:31] <sommerfeld> wesolows: someone has to take the first step.
[21:34:22] <wesolows> sommerfeld: Sure.  If the project team wants to define those (or the ARC wants to require them to) and publish them, that would be great.
[21:34:38] <elektronkind> I'm sure once the Solaris NDMP provider is out in the wild, people will pine for some extentions that you only see on NetApps and so on.
[21:35:01] <wesolows> elektronkind: Now would be a good time to know what those extensions are.
[21:35:39] <elektronkind> like network copies.. there's a netapp private extension... it allows data to be copied via NDMP between filers.
[21:35:52] <elektronkind> a very useful one at that
[21:36:01] <richlowe> wesolows: corner benr at the next svosug?
[21:36:08] <richlowe> at least, I'd expect him to be familiar with such things
[21:37:15] <wesolows> elektronkind: Thanks.
[21:37:33] <wesolows> richlowe: Yeah, sigh.  Santa Clara is just too damned painful to get to.
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[21:37:43] <richlowe> wesolows: surely you have minions? :)
[21:37:53] <wesolows> richlowe: You'd think so, but no. :-(
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[21:45:34] <axisys> i am looking for a simple smf for oracle.. is this the recommended one http://joostm.nl/solaris/smf/ora-smf/ora-smf-1.5.pkg ?
[21:46:08] <elektronkind> axisys: yes, and don't use the 1.5 version. use the CVS HEAD version.
[21:46:32] <elektronkind> it's the only version I've gotten to work
[21:46:55] <axisys> elektronkind: this one http://joostm.nl/solaris/smf/ora-smf/ORA_SMF_HEAD/ ?
[21:47:36] <elektronkind> yup
[21:47:45] <axisys> elektronkind: cool
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[21:48:01] <elektronkind> I use it with 10.1 and 10.2
[21:48:04] <elektronkind> works fine
[21:48:17] <elektronkind> detects the configured SIDs and makes SMF manifests for each
[21:48:42] <elektronkind> when/if you run more instances on the server later, rerun the generation script and it'll add them.
[21:49:54] <SYS64738> does exist a dump site for solaris express packages or must I look trough sol10 pkgs ?
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[21:52:03] <axisys> hmm.. how do I create an smf in a non-global zone?
[21:52:20] <axisys> hmm.. looks like by default /lib is a inheritplg dir
[21:52:21] <axisys> shit!
[21:52:32] <axisys> inherit-pkg dir that is
[21:53:07] <reflect> is there no way to disable DMA transfers on disks for just a single chain, rather than for all disks in solaris?
[21:53:14] <axisys> i guess I have to put my scripts somehwere else then
[21:53:52] <axisys> elektronkind: I guess I need to rebuild the ora_smf pkg.. it wont install unless /lib is read-write
[21:54:18] <axisys> elektronkind: I guess I can install it globally and then make changes to rebuild my version which will work on non-global zone
[21:54:29] <axisys> rebuild the pkg that is
[21:55:25] <axisys> anyone has a different trick of creating SMF on non-global zone that depends on inherit-pk dir like /lib
[21:56:05] <axisys> unless  I could pkgadd -R /sme/other/path -d ora_smf_head.pkg
[21:56:11] <axisys> elektronkind: let me give that a try
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[22:00:30] <CIA-17> krishna: 6578428 kssl_input() clears DBLK_COOKED flag in the wrong field, 6578997 KSSL should use hardware acceleration for ssl3 macs when available
[22:00:31] <CIA-17> marks: 6592023 zfs allow/unallow has incorrect arguments parse
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[22:09:15] <reflect> right.. I think I'll give up on this CF idea..
[22:13:11] <sstallion> reflect: ?
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[22:13:37] <reflect> I don't know much about CF.. is CFII the same as CF 2.0?
[22:14:13] <reflect> sstallion: I have to disable DMA transfers to boot from the CF card.. while doing so, I disable my SATA controller as it only works in DMA mode (it seems)
[22:14:16] <sstallion> most likely
[22:14:45] <sstallion> ahh
[22:14:50] <sstallion> dunno, my cf readers are SATA
[22:14:55] <reflect> according to the ata manpage, if I have a CF 2.0 adapter and a CF 2.0 card, I should be able to do DMA transfers, but that just won't work
[22:15:01] <reflect> link?
[22:15:06] <sstallion> one sec
[22:15:13] <reflect> hurry up! ;)
[22:15:18] <sstallion> its a nice one ;)
[22:16:04] <sstallion> http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/adsacf.asp
[22:16:21] <sstallion> cheap, works very well
[22:16:28] <sstallion> its mounted in the tape appliance now
[22:16:33] <gdamore> CF 2.0 with DMA?  I am very doubtful.
[22:17:02] <reflect>                   A Compact Flash(CF) card can work as an ATA disk through a CF-to-ATA adapter. If both card
[22:17:05] <reflect>                   and adapter implement Compact Flash Version 2.0, DMA is supported.  If either of them does
[22:17:08] <reflect>                   not, you should set ata-disk-dma-enabled to '0.'
[22:17:25] <gdamore> weird.
[22:17:36] <reflect> under the "known problems and limitations" sections of ata(7d) manpage
[22:17:37] <gdamore> DMA requires substantial logic to implement.
[22:17:53] <gdamore> i guess I've never seen a CF device with sufficient logic to do that.
[22:18:01] <gdamore> mostly they are dumb PIO devices...
[22:18:10] <reflect> the one in the link sstallion provided seems to be able to do DMA
[22:18:18] <gdamore> maybe the DMA logic is in the adapter?
[22:18:24] <sstallion> should be
[22:18:29] <sstallion> there is a small controller built in
[22:18:29] <reflect> well, it looks like it has 100 times more logic than my adapter has
[22:19:28] <gdamore> yeah, conversion from SATA to ATA, I guess is non-trivial.
[22:19:29] <sstallion> reflect: have you used sata on solaris before?
[22:20:21] <reflect> sstallion: yes.. a little.. why?
[22:20:34] <sstallion> reflect: do you have a supported chipset?
[22:21:11] <reflect> yeah, currently the marvell controller..  the one I'm trying to build now has a..
[22:21:36] <reflect> ATI Technologies Inc ATI 437A Serial ATA Controller
[22:21:43] <gdamore> hm... learn something new every day.  it looks like the logic is in the CF itself.
[22:21:52] <sstallion> no kidding?
[22:21:57] <sstallion> i wouldnt have guessed that
[22:22:15] <gdamore> well, electrically CF is ~IDE.
[22:22:17] <sstallion> reflect: the sata hba framework doesnt support many chipsets yet
[22:22:31] <reflect> what, are you saying no matter how dumb an adapter, it should be able to do DMA if you only provide a card supporting CFII?
[22:22:37] <sstallion> some marvell chips, sil 3124's, and ICH7 is it atm afaik
[22:22:43] <gdamore> so it makes sense that the logic would be there, though its kinda hard to imagine fitting that much logic on a tiny CF device
[22:23:00] <sstallion> asics?
[22:23:03] <gdamore> its possible that there are extra pins required to pass thru
[22:23:25] <reflect> no, CFI and CFII has a fixed number of pins afaik
[22:24:03] <gdamore> yep, it says that the electirical interfaces are identical.
[22:24:06] <sstallion> reflect: if you are on a 2gb card, you are definitely on a CFII
[22:24:27] <gdamore> The only difference between CF Type I and CF Type II cards is the card thickness. (From compactflash.org)
[22:24:27] <reflect> then why doesn't DMA work?
[22:24:54] <reflect> could it be the onboard controller that doesn't work with solaris properly?
[22:24:58] <sstallion> is it hooked up via ata or usb?
[22:25:05] <reflect> guess that could be it..
[22:25:10] <reflect> ATA
[22:25:21] <reflect> IDE interface: ATI Technologies Inc Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller ATI
[22:25:48] <gdamore> try a real disk and see if you get DMA?
[22:26:22] <reflect> good idea.. I'll see if I can find a PATA disk lying around
[22:27:44] <elektronkind> oy, I need to refresh my memory... what's a good way to create a crash dump on a running (yet partially hung) system?
[22:30:15] <reflect> oh.. I'm trying to remember from my "crash course" thing some 5 years ago
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[22:30:32] <sommerfeld> elektronkind: sparc or x86?
[22:30:42] <sommerfeld> and.. just how badly hung?
[22:30:49] <Stric> elektronkind: savecore -L, see man savecore
[22:30:54] <wesolows> reboot -d
[22:31:20] <sommerfeld> or mdb -kw followed by damaging critical infrastructure.
[22:31:29] <wesolows> savecore -L is not especially useful
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[22:32:45] <elektronkind> x86... there's something fishy regarding promoting a clone (talking about ZFS here) on a few of my X4100s. The boxes will sometimes (not all the time) end up in a half-hung state, where I could SSH in and do some stuff, but ps will hang, and any ZFS commands would, too.
[22:33:15] <elektronkind> it's s10 with latest patches, so I'm going to see about opening a case
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[22:33:56] <elektronkind> I was hoping to be able to dump core the next time this happens and sift though it. Thanks for the hints.
[22:35:25] <elektronkind> what we're doing is part of a backup script. A snapshot is made of a file system, that is in turned cloned, promoted, and then mounted elsewhere, where then legato networker comes in and scoops up the data for backups.
[22:37:35] <sommerfeld> possible long shot: 6591646 Hang during snapshot and destroy
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[22:42:19] <elektronkind> hmm
[22:43:39] <elektronkind> must be a bug that's marked internal
[22:43:53] <elektronkind> but that description is the gist of what I'm seeing
[22:43:55] <richlowe> could just be too new.
[22:44:16] <elektronkind> didn't come up on sunsolve, either, so yeah
[22:44:31] <richlowe> sunsolve points you back to b.o.o now, doesn't it?
[22:44:44] <sommerfeld> 6591646 was filed on 10 august
[22:44:50] <Megaf> can vmware run on opensolaris?
[22:44:57] <richlowe> sommerfeld: well, thanks for breaking that illusion.
[22:45:25] <richlowe> elektronkind: care to ping website-discuss and ask where that bug is, unless there's something obvious sommerfeld can see...
[22:46:18] <elektronkind> will do. the other half of our backup script destroys the previous night's clone to make way for the new one
[22:46:29] <elektronkind> that's where I'm seeing ze hanging
[22:46:44] <sommerfeld> 6542681 may be the same thing
[22:46:51] <richlowe> movement: So, why in the world am I the 'author' of that cset?
[22:46:52] <elektronkind> sometimes it's temporary until it completes, sometimes the hang becomes permanent
[22:46:57] <sommerfeld> is the X4100 running in 32-bit or 64-bit mode?
[22:47:01] <elektronkind> 64
[22:47:21] <elektronkind> s10, running 125101-10
[22:47:42] <richlowe> movement: also, notifications to something other than mdb-discuss would be good.
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[22:49:41] <elektronkind> 12GB of RAM on the boxes in question, too
[22:51:01] <sommerfeld> how large is the snapshot and how much changes between each snapshot?
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[22:52:52] <the-decider> grouphug
[22:52:56] <the-decider> oops -- wrong channel ;)
[22:53:06] <elektronkind> there are 4 filesystems on each box being snapshotted, and average sizes for each respective one ring in around 30MB, 20GB, and 17MB
[22:53:15] <elektronkind> er I mean 3
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[22:54:44] <elektronkind> I got a good temp hang this morning while tracking this down when I destroyed a 35MB snap
[22:54:48] <the-decider> the real bug here is that sun EBS (networker) won't back up snapshots :\
[22:55:41] <elektronkind> yeah, quite helpful networker is. We tried a workaround by lofs-mounting the snapshot and networker seems to ignore lofs mounts, too :/ serves me right, I guess.
[22:56:20] <elektronkind> anyhow, I won't know for certain until I can core this box in situ
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[22:58:35] <elektronkind> I'll try upping kernelbase on another box that has exhibited this to see if that one continues to be a buzz kill.
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[23:05:51] <elektronkind> interesting. kstat -n system_pages reports a kernelbase of 0
[23:06:45] <the-decider> huh, they've renamed the T1000 the "Enterprise T1000" now
[23:08:47] <sommerfeld> i may be mistaken but i think dinking with kernelbase is only something you do for 32-bit kernels.
[23:09:08] <elektronkind> hmm, yeah... that's what I'm seeing by googling around
[23:09:26] <FrostCS> the-decider, they had to do that, because they know anything with enterprise in the name sells better.
[23:12:26] <the-decider> or at least one product name change a month is required by the contract of the union represented "rebranding" staff
[23:12:37] <sommerfeld> alternatively, it's because fujitsu didn't want to sell something with "fire" in the name.
[23:12:55] <mritun_> wtf
[23:13:13] <holcomb> haha
[23:13:14] <mritun_> I posted on JS' blog
[23:13:24] <mritun_> "please get your branding straight"
[23:13:46] <mritun_> It was insanity just trolling sun.com for an application server
[23:13:49] <richlowe> oh, the far bigger annoyance there is the various SUNW,Sun-Blade-*
[23:14:13] <sommerfeld> ... which aren't blades
[23:14:18] <e^ipi_> blade was a poor name choice
[23:14:25] <mritun_> ever remember, Sun Java Studio Creator, Sun Studio, Visual Web Pack
[23:14:46] <mritun_> (hint: pick odd one out)
[23:15:10] <richlowe> sommerfeld: some are, now.
[23:15:15] <delewis> given the Blade line pre-existed the current definition of "blade", it was hardly a bad name choice.
[23:15:16] <richlowe> just to add to the fun.
[23:17:47] <sommerfeld> to quote a sysadmin type I know: "sun blade 1000, +5 vs ice monsters"
[23:18:09] <e^ipi_> lol
[23:18:17] * the-decider asks in a serious voice... What model used to be called "ice Monster"?
[23:18:37] <e^ipi_> delewis: I was unaware of that
[23:18:42] <reflect> I don't suppose anyone has an url for how to transform a single disk into a mirror howto handy?
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[23:19:15] <e^ipi_> I assumed they meant to cash in on the hype about blade servers a few years back
[23:20:11] <e^ipi_> reflect: zpool attach <pool> <device> <new_device>
[23:20:28] <e^ipi_> no need for a howto.... just one line
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[23:21:21] <reflect> oh, man.. that works even for the root mirror?
[23:21:22] <Stric> blade1k etc are about as big as a rack of blade servers anyhow ;)
[23:21:28] <reflect> I'm impressed
[23:21:49] <reflect> and yes.. it worked.. even for a 3-way mirros
[23:21:54] <reflect> mirror, too
[23:21:58] <reflect> I love ZFS :)
[23:22:10] <e^ipi> Stric: it's shorter & only slightly fatter than my 44p that lives right next to it
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[23:22:24] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[23:22:45] <e^ipi> might suck down as much power as a rack of servers though, it's a pig
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[23:23:02] <Stric> b1k uses around 240W idle
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[23:23:24] <reflect> gdamore: atleast the SATA channels get UDMA6
[23:23:24] <Stric> and around 240W while at work ;)
[23:24:08] <reflect> it's recommended to only use full disks with ZFS, but what exactly is it that you lose when you use slices?
[23:24:19] <e^ipi> reflect: EFI disklabels
[23:24:43] <Stric> reflect: zfs uses the disks write cache for its own gain if you give it the whole disk
[23:24:48] <Stric> and disables it otherwise
[23:25:11] <reflect> ah..
[23:25:18] <Stric> for safety reasons if stuff crashes
[23:25:52] <elektronkind> safety first, kids!
[23:25:57] <sommerfeld> the other thing you gain with full disks is the ability to move the pool between systems of differing endianness
[23:26:09] <sommerfeld> (sparc <-> x86)
[23:26:44] <e^ipi> speaking of which, is there an off the shelf SATA controller for cheap somewhere that'll work in the sparc ?
[23:26:59] <e^ipi> that way I could kill my amd64 machine forever
[23:27:01] <sstallion> interesting
[23:27:24] <sstallion> it appears that public key auth works through ssh if the pam service does not reference pam_ldap
[23:28:05] <FrostCS> e^ipi, lsi sas controllers will run sata on sparc
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[23:31:07] <e^ipi> I'll look in to that
[23:31:32] <e^ipi> the card reader & floppy drive can be removed to make way for a couple standard SATA harddrives ( my zpool )
[23:31:58] <e^ipi> because really... who uses floppies anymore? and the card reader doesn't even work
[23:32:20] <reflect> the amiga fans?
[23:32:35] <reflect> :)
[23:32:46] <e^ipi> yes, well if we're going to cater to ancient dead platforms, i should get an IBM punchcard reader
[23:33:02] <nachox> evening people
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[23:35:26] <sstallion> this is just borderline retarded
[23:35:33] <sstallion> narrowed it down a bit
[23:35:51] <e^ipi> ?
[23:35:54] <sstallion> if you disable pam_ldap for accounts, auth will still succeed
[23:36:27] <sstallion> in fact, if you drop auth *and* account, auth will still succeed provided its done via publickey
[23:36:55] <sstallion> mind you nsswitch.conf has passwd: defined as files, ldap
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[23:37:43] <sstallion> i suppose it makes a certain amount of sense, but it sure as hell makes login control more difficult without resorting to screwing with proxy agents
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[23:42:43] <apersson> hey guys
[23:43:40] <sstallion> afternoon
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[23:45:38] <apersson> Does anyone know if it is possible to set up the mercurial repository on os.o to send out notification emails to multiple addresses?
[23:45:42] <sstallion> other   auth requisite          pam_authtok_get.so.1
[23:45:43] <sstallion> other   auth required           pam_dhkeys.so.1
[23:45:43] <sstallion> other   auth required           pam_unix_cred.so.1
[23:45:43] <sstallion> other   auth binding            pam_unix_auth.so.1 server_policy
[23:45:43] <sstallion> other   auth required           pam_ldap.so.1
[23:45:55] <sstallion> damnit... sorry for the bad paste
[23:46:46] <Gman> apersson, probably best to create an alias or mailing list
[23:47:21] <Gman> i can create a -notify for you if need be
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[23:48:11] <nachox> sstallion, i'm curious now, what are you trying to do?
[23:48:26] <sstallion> nachox: cheap login control
[23:48:49] <sstallion> some servers require ldap for certain things (ie: postgres), yet i do not want users to ssh into the machine
[23:49:41] <apersson> Gman: that would be great
[23:49:49] <nachox> hmmm, there has to be a better way than playing with pam
[23:50:13] <sstallion> i had hoped it would be the easiest, however it looks like unless i go the proxy agent route with ldap, im SOL
[23:50:13] <Gman> apersson, let me know the details, or probably better, mail website-discuss at opensolaris dot org and i'll pick up that request
[23:50:27] <sstallion> netgroups work well for an entire system using PAM, but not for individual services
[23:50:53] <apersson> Gman: OK, I'll send an email. Thanks.
[23:50:54] <sstallion> what would be idea is authorization based off of a group, ie: login-users get ssh, or postgres-users get pgsql
[23:51:01] <sstallion> s/idea/ideal/
[23:51:19] <sstallion> also, netgroups wrecks hell with dovecot
[23:51:30] <hile_> how so?
[23:51:49] <sstallion> netgroups + ldap i should say
[23:51:59] <hile_> i say again, how so?
[23:52:02] <sstallion> for some odd reason it will refuse to authenticate
[23:52:10] <sstallion> ssh and other services work fine on the same host with the same config
[23:52:25] <sstallion> as soon as i remove passwd_compat from nsswitch, everything works fine
[23:52:35] <hile_> why not have files, ldap
[23:52:43] <hile_> and then use +@foo in passwd
[23:52:48] <hile_> to add the  certain netgroups
[23:52:58] <sstallion> because netgroups requires passwd_compat, does it not?
[23:53:43] <Triskelios> laca: mind if I add Boost to SFE? it takes freaking forever to compile, though
[23:53:54] <hile_> sstallion, when last i used it, it didn't
[23:54:03] <nachox> sstallion, http://www.sunmanagers.org/pipermail/summaries/2004-October/005739.html
[23:54:03] <sstallion> one sec, i'll try without
[23:54:13] <hile_> i just had +@netgroup +@other-netgroup in passwd
[23:54:25] <nachox> that guy seems to be trying what you are
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[23:54:31] <sstallion> yeah
[23:54:33] <sstallion> ive read that post
[23:54:47] <hile_> and you should be using kerberos for authentication and leaving LDAP for authorisations anyhow
[23:55:05] <sstallion> hile_: small internal system
[23:55:24] <hile_> define small
[23:55:33] <sstallion> one machine chopped into 8 zones, with 4 users
[23:55:44] <sstallion> about as small as it gets
[23:55:45] * nachox points to all the latest kerberos security advisories :P
[23:55:52] <sstallion> krb is a bit overkill
[23:55:52] <hile_> jesus christ, just push out a password file
[23:55:59] <nachox> hahaha
[23:56:04] <sstallion> cant, its dependant on several services :P
[23:56:11] <sstallion> vpn, 802.11x etc.
[23:56:58] <nachox> what are you using for the vpn?
[23:57:12] <sstallion> ios
[23:57:22] <sstallion> radius auth to a radius zone which uses ldap
[23:57:34] <sstallion> other things are tied into ldap as well
[23:58:13] <nachox> cisco?
[23:58:16] <sstallion> yup
[23:58:48] <sstallion> nothing special, just your run of the mill ipsec remote access config
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[23:59:21] <nachox> then it's more than a box with 4 zones, its that an a cisco router :)
[23:59:28] <sstallion> haha
[23:59:41] <sstallion> well there are a few more things on the network, but the primary consumer would be the solaris machine :)
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