[00:00:17] <CIA-17> egillett: 6564160 px does not handled fail "IO Space" requests, 6566128 The fire.pec.ur results in system panic and fault.io.fire.pciex.device, 6569259 n2piupc performance counter driver needs to attach on maramba platform, 6574648 fire/oberon tbw_dpe and tte_due should cause a panic.
[00:01:15] <nachox> whats maramba?
[00:03:59] * oninoshiko knows not
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[00:32:13] <nachox> ha, i expected this sooner or later, SJVN is already asking whether opensolaris will have problems since whatever right it bought from sco werent sco's to begin with
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[00:35:15] <boyd> Morning, all
[00:35:20] <cyborg--> what exactly is the procedure for solaris,  in finding  the latest iscsi target code and installing the package on a node?
[00:35:46] <boyd> jmcp: ping
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[00:40:22] <oninoshiko> nachox: i thought (most of) SUN's rights predated SCOs existance
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[00:42:54] <oninoshiko> (meaning they were one of the older SysV licensees)
[00:44:47] <PerterB> they were, not to mention they also bought the "real" SCO
[00:45:55] <oninoshiko> taratilla?
[00:45:56] <nachox> oninoshiko: dunno, sun did license something from the new sco before opensolaris
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[00:46:09] <oninoshiko> or whatever
[00:46:46] <PerterB> tarantella, yeah... but their svr4 license from at&t way predates that
[00:48:30] <oninoshiko> PerterB: thats what i though
[00:48:33] <oninoshiko> thought
[00:49:00] <purserj> discussing the SCO case?
[00:50:29] <oninoshiko> i so far as it relates to the "noone owns anything in *nix because the history is so convoluted as to make anyones head explode"
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[00:52:10] <purserj> well its going to be interesting to see what Novell does now
[00:53:02] <nachox> ask sco for sun's money :P
[00:53:10] <purserj> heh yeah
[00:53:19] <purserj> thats a given
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[00:54:10] <purserj> On second thoughts no its not
[00:54:31] <purserj> Novell could declare the deal done with SCO invalid
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[00:56:08] <jmcp> boyd: ack
[00:56:32] <jmcp> Sun purchased licenses to drivers from SCO. that's *it*
[00:56:42] <jmcp> boyd: welcome back
[00:57:53] <jmcp> and back in, iirc, 1992, Sun did a deal with AT&T to completely secure their derivative work rights
[00:58:20] <jmcp> they paid at lot, too - USD120million
[00:58:27] <jmcp> but I reckon it was worth it
[00:58:32] <purserj> fair enough
[00:59:16] <purserj> so apart from having to pull a few drivers out of solaris SUN shouldn't be too worried then
[00:59:36] <boyd> Hey, jmcp, I have a quick q
[00:59:37] <nachox> probably those drivers were written by sco anyway
[00:59:38] * jmcp cathces up with the news
[00:59:44] <oninoshiko> actually i question if novell could do that, as i believe SCO had the right to enter into new contracts on behalf of novell (presuent to their management of the SysV business). the deal was that that they did not have the right to alter exsisting contracts
[00:59:45] <e^ipi> purserj, have you ever used UnixWare?
[00:59:50] <e^ipi> it's not that many drivers...
[01:00:10] <jmcp> boyd: fire away
[01:00:43] <boyd> jmcp: You may know.. There was recently announced the NWS build 69 bits, which now include AVS. But I thought AVS was already integrated. Am I mistaken?
[01:00:44] <|^JaMeS^|> i luf gonk foo
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[01:01:03] <jmcp> boyd: no idea, sorry. haven't been tracking NWS consolidation for a while
[01:01:03] <oninoshiko> but IANAL, and im not even sure most of them can follow this muddy mess
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[01:01:17] <boyd> jmcp: Ah, thought it was still your area.
[01:01:46] <jmcp> boyd: nope, I'm in ON now
[01:02:20] <boyd> Oh, the drivers are in ON. I didn't realise. In that case all my ON q's go to you now :)
[01:03:02] <jmcp> :(
[01:03:04] <jmcp> :)
[01:04:28] <boyd> Oh good, the CIFS tar/cpio/pax case is on at ARC. I'm getting the popcorn
[01:04:47] <oninoshiko> linkire?
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[01:05:22] * oninoshiko stops being lazy, and just finds it
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[01:05:37] <boyd> arc-discuss
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[01:08:17] <boyd> Hah! Salami tactic!
[01:08:42] <flyingparchment> < TheLetterE> !top
[01:08:42] <flyingparchment> < replagbot>  4671 stv       15   0 10084 1452  808 R    4  0.0   0:00.03 top -n 1 -bc
[01:08:49] * flyingparchment finds this hilarious
[01:09:58] <purserj> e^ipi: nope not unxiware, had the misfortune to admin a couple of OpenServer boxes
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[01:15:57] <cyborg--> if i just need to download the iscsi target package, what would the procedure for that be?
[01:17:24] <oninoshiko> cyborg-- i beleave the package in SXCE is current...
[01:17:28] <Triskelios> huh. ffmpeg's v4l2 input plugin compiles on SX
[01:17:33] * Triskelios tests
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[01:17:54] <oninoshiko> although there are some bugs in it... which are being worked on inside of sun
[01:18:07] <cyborg--> so SXCE is the package name that contains the iscsi target?   so where exactly do you download packages for solaris
[01:19:03] <oninoshiko> id have to look up the actual package name... SXCE is the current distrobution
[01:19:23] <cyborg--> so yeah,  I have installed solaris ver 10 that i downloaded from sun's site
[01:19:32] <cyborg--> but i have no iscsi target tools
[01:20:16] <cyborg--> i come from the world of linux and this is very forien so far.   i am just trying to get an iscsi target going on top of ZFS that is    sparce/
[01:20:41] <bda> cyborg--: http://whacked.net/2007/02/13/opensolarissolaris-relationships/
[01:21:00] <bda> You are (presumably) running Solaris 10 11/06 aka Update 3?
[01:21:10] <cyborg--> yes 10u3
[01:21:15] <bda> Sol10u3 has no iSCSI target support.
[01:21:19] <boyd> There is no iscsi target in the current supported release. It's only in builds based on OpenSolaris and is intended to be in s10u4 later this month
[01:21:37] <cyborg--> so   s10u4 is expected this month
[01:21:39] <oninoshiko> cyborg: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/downloads/
[01:21:52] <boyd> cyborg--: yes.
[01:21:55] <oninoshiko> get Solaris Express Community Edition
[01:21:56] <cyborg--> so i should redownload the
[01:22:04] <cyborg--> is there restrictions on commercial use?
[01:22:07] <cyborg--> are there
[01:22:27] <boyd> Only on redistribution AFAIK
[01:22:36] <oninoshiko> that depends on "use"
[01:22:48] <oninoshiko> there are redistrobution restrictions
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[01:23:07] <oninoshiko> but if you want to run you Co's server on it, no worries
[01:23:09] <cyborg--> i am trying to see if I can use    solaris/zfs to provide access to  <50TB  data over iscsi
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[01:23:17] <oninoshiko> although IANAL
[01:23:25] <e^ipi> cyborg--, joyent does that IIRC
[01:23:44] <bda> AYe.
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[01:24:04] <cyborg--> we have been looking at purchasing  solutions from lefthand, equallogic... but its all gay,    i think if I can get function iscsi targets with underlying  zfs i'll have just what i need and can use a lot of existing hardware
[01:24:09] <nrubsig> !seen richlowe
[01:24:12] <oninoshiko> you might encounter some problems with other initiators, atleast i have... YMMV
[01:24:14] <Drone> richlowe is currently online in #opensolaris and last spoke on Sat 11 Aug 2007 20:56 GMT, saying 'according to the opengroup pricelist, they won't actually tell you the price until you ask'.
[01:24:43] <nrubsig> !seen Tpenta
[01:24:50] <Drone> Tpenta is currently online in #opensolaris and last spoke on Fri 10 Aug 2007 20:53 GMT, saying 'in my former life as an SA, the way that I often found out that a service had died was when the phone rang. SMF restarts stuff'.
[01:24:51] <cyborg--> openiscsi  linux  initiator can talk to it i hope
[01:24:58] <oninoshiko> i beleave so
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[01:25:08] <boyd> nrubsig: You know you can ask those questions off-channel?
[01:25:11] <oninoshiko> but i havent personally tested it
[01:25:44] <nrubsig> boyd: yes, but I prefer to do it hear... usually people start to comment about the absence of people... :-)
[01:25:57] <oninoshiko> so again YMMV :p
[01:26:06] <nrubsig> richlowe: ping!
[01:26:41] <cyborg--> yea i downloaded  sol-10-u3-ga-x86
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[01:26:45] * boyd comments on how many people seem to be hiding from nrubsig
[01:26:53] <nrubsig> alanc-away / alanc_away: ping!
[01:26:54] <cyborg--> but i want  sol-nv-b69-x86 ?
[01:27:09] <nrubsig> boyd: I hunt them down!
[01:27:14] <nrubsig> boyd: all of them!
[01:27:17] <oninoshiko> cyborg--: Yes
[01:27:25] <nrubsig> And the rock cried: No hiding place!
[01:27:43] <cyborg--> okay... i am slowly piecing this all together.  so the work that takes place in   this community edition eventually makes its say into the commercial one?
[01:28:03] <boyd> That's the idea.
[01:28:04] <e^ipi> SXCE is a sun product destined to be the next version of solaris
[01:28:14] <cyborg--> okay i see
[01:28:26] <oninoshiko> more or less... im sure there maybe some obscure bit that will be totally not useable/wanted
[01:28:31] <e^ipi> community code gets integrated to opensolaris, and then opensolaris plus some non-free bits get put together to make SXCE
[01:28:32] <cyborg--> so whats happening in SXCE right now  is hopefully going to be in  10u4
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[01:28:53] <e^ipi> no, what's happening in SXCE right now is going to become solaris 11
[01:29:01] <jmcp> cyborg--: bzzzt
[01:29:02] <e^ipi> and they might back-port some stuff in to solaris 10
[01:29:13] <oninoshiko> but only if your lucky
[01:29:49] <cyborg--> the iscsi target code i am about to  expierement with  under sxce,   is not the same as will be found in   10u4 ?
[01:29:57] <nrubsig> jmcp: ping!
[01:30:02] <jmcp> nrubsig: ack
[01:30:30] <oninoshiko> are they advertiseing it for s10u4?
[01:30:49] <cyborg--> somebody here just mentioned it will be in u4 and i actually read that somewhere
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[01:31:08] <nrubsig> jmcp: --> /msg
[01:31:20] <oninoshiko> because i dont think it's quite ready for integration... but im not a sun employee
[01:33:43] <cyborg--> i will play with it in SXCE but I'm not sure I would be comfortable going into production before its in Solaris binary/supported distribution
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[01:34:31] <oninoshiko> SXCE is a binary disto... just not supported
[01:35:01] <oninoshiko> and I have been working with some people in SUN to try and imporve it some
[01:35:18] <cyborg--> and according to this relationship map   unsupported & unstable
[01:35:27] <cyborg--> which obviously doesnt mean it has to be unstable I know,
[01:35:30] <e^ipi> cyborg--, a few people use it in production
[01:35:36] <e^ipi> ( joyent, f.ex.
[01:35:53] <cyborg--> maybe i'll catch them here this coming week...
[01:36:36] 
[01:36:45] <e^ipi> and benr doesnt hang out here often
[01:37:18] <boyd> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/820-2714/6nea26qki?a=view
[01:37:57] 
[01:38:00] <e^ipi> I have to hit it twice
[01:38:06] <sommerfeld> oh, joy, the FUDsters are out again
[01:38:19] <e^ipi> sommerfeld, ?
[01:38:20] <boyd> sommerfeld: SCO/Novell?
[01:39:03] 
[01:39:10] <cyborg--> boyd:  So this url is basically saying what I was looking for is supported now?
[01:39:13] <sommerfeld> specifically linux-head speculation that the SCO loss against novell has implications for opensolaris
[01:39:27] <boyd> sommerfeld: If that's what you mean, I'd say Sun need to issue a statement ASAP
[01:39:57] <boyd> cyborg--: What the docs are calling S10 7/07 HW release is s10u4
[01:40:00] <boyd> (not yet out)
[01:40:06] <e^ipi> Triskelios, interesting
[01:40:26] <jmcp> sommerfeld: I've been looking for the press releases about Sun's purchase of driver code from SCO ... can't find it
[01:40:31] <cyborg--> Okay,  so once s10u4  comes out (this month maybe  was mentioned?)  then I can download that from SUN
[01:40:50] <jmcp> I also can't find the press release from 1992/3 about purchasing irrevocable rights to derivative works from AT&T
[01:41:04] <e^ipi> Triskelios, how do I disable it?
[01:41:05] <jmcp> now would be an *excellent* time for those docs to be visible
[01:41:22] <boyd> cyborg--: yes.
[01:41:31] <boyd> jmcp: indeed
[01:41:40] <Triskelios> e^ipi: not sure how you managed to enable it. it's an X keyboard option...
[01:41:56] <cyborg--> Okay ... that is good,  and just to clarify,    it is my understanding solaris is free of charge and I can run it on an x86 processor if i decide to?
[01:42:09] <jmcp> cyborg--: yes
[01:42:19] <jmcp> or UltraSPARC-II and later
[01:42:34] <boyd> (but, to be complete, those are different downloads)
[01:42:44] <jmcp> yup
[01:42:49] 
[01:42:49] <cyborg--> I will have to  do some research to see   sparc vs   x86-64bit    for my purpose
[01:43:31] <cyborg--> i would rather not purchase sun servers when i have  spare  x86,  but i want to set this up proper, its going to   hold a lot of responsibility   , a lot of data
[01:44:03] 
[01:44:04] <e^ipi> solaris/amd64 is fabulous
[01:44:04] 
[01:44:15] <cyborg--> yeah my ibm's are on the supported list
[01:44:22] <jmcp> cyborg--: the vast majority of Solaris "licenses" downloaded in the last 12 months have been for running on IBM, Dell and HP hardware
[01:44:52] <jmcp> cyborg--: do your research thoroughly though.
[01:45:21] 
[01:45:52] <sommerfeld> cyborg--: i believe there are also some "try and buy" options available for sun where you can get gear for an evaluation period for free and then opt to either keep it or return it.
[01:47:05] <cyborg--> right now all i know is,  sun  hardware looks nice in other colo customers cages hahaha
[01:47:24] <e^ipi> sun sells some x86 hardware as well which is apparantly pretty decent
[01:47:54] <cyborg--> yeah, i figure if i go x86 i might as well stick ibm because i have all the gear already  intel and amd
[01:47:55] 
[01:48:57] <jamesd__> cyborg--, dont worry, if your competors have faster and more stable hardware,  it wont be that painful  being listed  below them on  top companies lists, what is the worst that can happen you get fired for not getting the best tools for the job, or perhaps the company can't maintain market share and has to restructure... your job is safe right?
[01:49:48] <sommerfeld> e^ipi: all my linux-head friends are buying sun fire x2100's
[01:50:23] <sommerfeld> including at least one who's an ibm employee...
[01:50:42] <e^ipi> they're still ~ $700, right?
[01:50:49] <jamesd__> sommerfeld, have  you had much experinece with  the sunN1  software system?
[01:51:21] <sommerfeld> jamesd__: nope.
[01:52:16] <sommerfeld> (hmm, for once comments in that slashdot thread are mostly anti-fud.  )
[01:53:11] <jamesd__> all of my companies top brass keep talking about  virtualization and faster system deployment, i'm researching the N1 system to make things go smoother....   hopeuflly it will play nice with our  HP linux boxes and  our fujitsu primepower, and our t2000's and other misc sun boxes untill we can start getting more sun boxes back in.
[01:53:21] <cyborg--> jamesd__: i am not sure I follow what you are getting at.   in the segment of  low-end x86 machines, i think the sun hardware is comparable to the ibm hardware
[01:54:41] <e^ipi> sun's just cheaper *shrug*
[01:54:46] <jamesd__> cyborg--, sun's cheap x86 servers are some of the fastest and cheapest and have all the best features,   quad ethernet on board, opteron cpus,  ilom's ( both serial and paralel)    including  8x dual core opterons on the high end.
[01:55:07] <jamesd__> er s/parallel/nic based/
[01:55:53] <jamesd__> IT is a weapon.
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[02:08:32] <jbk> jamesd__: sadly most places don't think that way
[02:08:45] <jbk> though i think those that do are probably in a better position to compete than their competitors
[02:08:58] <jbk> most view it as an expense, not an investment
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[02:09:57] <purserj> thats cos at heart most people resent computers
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[02:16:26] <flyingparchment> does the X4100 have an external SCSI port?
[02:17:19] <dlg> no
[02:17:28] <flyingparchment> :(
[02:20:19] <oninoshiko> IT is a money sink.
[02:21:11] <oninoshiko> most Companies know they have to have us, but we always are asking for more and more, and they really have no idea what they are getting.
[02:21:59] <sommerfeld> flyingparchment: X4100 has two PCI slots. X4100 has two PCI-express slots
[02:22:04] <oninoshiko> at best we ask for more and more and that is all they hear... at worst there are crashes, instability, lost data, etc
[02:22:07] <flyingparchment> yeah, i have a space PCI SCSI card
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[02:22:12] <flyingparchment> was just hoping it had one on-board
[02:22:55] * oninoshiko knows oninoshiko's place in the world -.-
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[02:23:44] <flyingparchment> can't wait until i _finally_ have solaris support (after two years) and can log a call with sun to fix the adpu320 driver
[02:24:20] <bda> oninoshiko: "Internet janitor"?
[02:25:12] <oninoshiko> bda: janitors dont ask for as much money, and the CEO can see the result if his crapper is clean
[02:25:31] <bda> Plumber? :)
[02:25:38] <oninoshiko> :p
[02:25:47] <sommerfeld> yah, plumbers get the big $$
[02:28:44] * oninoshiko cleans the pipes to Sprint
[02:30:20] * sommerfeld paid far too much to have a pressure-reducing valve replaced in his basement recently.
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[02:42:27] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: was it a valve for gas or water ?
[02:43:27] <sommerfeld> water
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[02:43:58] * nrubsig tasters jmcp  a bit for fun...
[02:44:01] <nrubsig> er
[02:44:04] <nrubsig> tasers
[02:44:08] <sommerfeld> it was the first thing after the main cutoff valve for the entire house.
[02:44:11] <Megaf> $ free -m
[02:44:11] <Megaf> bash: free: command not found
[02:44:14] <Megaf> ?
[02:44:30] <nrubsig> Megaf: Solaris != Linux
[02:44:37] <Megaf> i know
[02:45:00] <Megaf> free on Solaris = ?
[02:45:07] <sommerfeld> free on Linux = ?
[02:45:19] <nrubsig> Megaf: try $ vmstat -s
[02:45:27] <Megaf> hm
[02:45:29] <sommerfeld> (honest question.  never used linux)
[02:45:40] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: /usr/bin/free reports the free memory
[02:45:51] <Megaf> sommerfeld: show the memory info
[02:46:06] * nrubsig hates when Unix tools are polluting the namespace
[02:46:44] <Stric> Megaf: 'echo ::memstat | mdb -k' as root is one method
[02:47:04] <sommerfeld> of course, "free memory" is a somewhat mushy question on a demand-paged virtual memory system.
[02:47:32] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: yes, but sometimes users just want a number, regardless how it was calculated... :-)
[02:47:51] <Stric> if you install top(1), that can show stuff too
[02:47:57] <nrubsig> groan
[02:48:07] <nrubsig> Stric: top(1) sucks in some cases
[02:48:19] <nrubsig> or at least it sucked last time I checked.
[02:48:22] <oninoshiko> IIRC isnt top inaccurate for memory useage?
[02:48:30] <nrubsig> oninoshiko: yes
[02:48:30] <Stric> nrubsig: bla blah, I've heard that argument many times.. but it still serves a very useful purpose
[02:48:44] <Megaf> Stric: wow, nice
[02:48:51] <Megaf> nice command
[02:48:53] <Megaf> thanks
[02:49:06] <nrubsig> Stric: I know. Sometimes it's usefull, sometimes it makes kitten scream and explode.
[02:49:16] <Stric> nrubsig: haven't seen a single kitten explode so far..
[02:49:47] <nrubsig> We can change that.
[02:50:11] <oninoshiko> http://www.maier-komor.de/sysstat.html
[02:50:29] <oninoshiko> that seems to be a neat tool, i keep meaning to install it, but havent yet
[02:50:39] * sstallion grumbles
[02:50:40] <nrubsig> Stric: get a initial fuse for plastic explisives, 2kg pure ammonium nitrate and a kitten...
[02:50:48] <sstallion> any ldap guys around?
[02:50:56] <Stric> The only argument I've heard so far against top (and that you should use prstat instead), is that if you have a very busy system, it will eat more cpu than prstat.. but it also provides more info..
[02:51:09] <Stric> and I don't care much if it uses 0.1% cpu instead of 0.001%
[02:51:58] * nrubsig pokes jmcp and Tpenta
[02:52:01] <oninoshiko> "Top gathers its swap information using kstat's unix/system_pages, which really concerns total virtual memory and not swap space."
[02:52:10] <Stric> (well.. top can provide different info to be honest, prstat has some info that top doesn't.. and the opposite)
[02:52:25] <jbk> grrrrrr
[02:52:33] <Stric> oninoshiko: just like 'swap -s'
[02:52:47] <jbk> i think perhaps i'm not even going to try to figure this one out
[02:53:02] <jbk> (disassembler just prints the value of the instruction vs. flagging it as invalid)
[02:55:33] <sommerfeld> jbk: can you be more specific?
[02:55:34] <Megaf> how to install pkg.gz?
[02:56:02] <Stric> gzip -d blah.pkg.gz;pkgadd -d blah.pkg
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[02:56:21] <jbk> that's what i mean :)
[02:56:38] <Megaf> hm pkgadd, nice
[02:58:41] <sommerfeld> hmm.  it looks like a bunch of that logic is actually in the open-source dis code
[02:59:02] <Shinden> whem zfs will be on gpl ? :D
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[02:59:14] * oninoshiko knifes shinden
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[02:59:22] <Shinden> [;
[02:59:30] <nrubsig> Shinden: all files stored on ZFS will actumatically released under GPLv3a
[02:59:31] <jbk> you sure? i thought the closed bits filled in a buffer that get's displayed where the disassembled instruction goes
[02:59:43] <jbk> i didn't think it did anything beyond printing it
[03:00:05] <Shinden> nrubsig: strange
[03:00:08] <Shinden> why ?
[03:00:12] <richlowe> hah.
[03:00:18] <sommerfeld> dis_data() in dis_main.c.
[03:00:25] <sommerfeld> one minute while I find the code
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[03:00:52] <nrubsig> Shinden: to make the GPL community happy... suddenly all the goverment secrets are automagically GPL'ed...
[03:00:58] <Shinden> [;
[03:01:19] <Shinden> that's sounds like fun :p
[03:01:32] <Shinden> maybe vista source code will be on zfs partition too
[03:01:33] <Shinden> ;p
[03:01:34] <sommerfeld> http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/cmd/dis/dis_main.c#128
[03:01:40] * nrubsig giggles
[03:02:03] <Shinden> that mean vista will be gpl 2 ?
[03:02:07] <Shinden> sounds cool
[03:02:08] <Shinden> ;p
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[03:02:53] * nrubsig giggles harder and looks for some pot to smoke...
[03:02:55] <sommerfeld> hmm.
[03:03:08] <sommerfeld> but the sparc disassembler always returns 0
[03:03:46] <jbk> aha!
[03:03:51] <Shinden> nrubsig: ur evil narcoman !!
[03:03:53] <jbk> it's a branch w/ prediction instruction
[03:03:54] <jbk> however
[03:04:07] <jbk> it's on a sparc v1 executable
[03:04:23] <sommerfeld> (d'oh, there's a bug in the closed source code.  if DIS_OCTAL is set, it prints using a format of "%016x" :-) )
[03:04:38] <jbk> there's also a bug in the opensource bit of the disassembler
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[03:05:52] <jbk> http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/cmd/dis/dis_target.c#264
[03:06:18] <sommerfeld> hah!
[03:06:34] <sommerfeld> just had a hallway conversation about that sort of bug with jim carlson and meem a couple weeks ago
[03:06:43] <jbk> so does the closed source bits merely output the value of the instruction if it's a known instruction, but the wrong architecture?
[03:06:55] <jbk> as that _seems_ to be what's happening
[03:06:57] <sommerfeld> memset(x, <const>, 0) should generate a lint warning
[03:07:14] <jbk> well i can't take credit for spotting it
[03:07:19] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: why ?
[03:07:22] <jbk> richlowe mentioned it to me
[03:07:46] <sommerfeld> because it does nothing.
[03:07:47] <richlowe> nrubsig: because it's pointless.
[03:07:50] <richlowe> nrubsig: and also, it annoys me.
[03:08:01] <sommerfeld> and because you probably intended to zero <const> bytes instead
[03:08:13] <nrubsig> erm
[03:08:32] <sommerfeld> instead of setting no bytes to the value <const>
[03:08:41] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: |x|=pointer to data, arg2 = data length and arc3 value
[03:08:49] <nrubsig> or not ?
[03:08:57] <sommerfeld>      void *memset(void *s, int c, size_t n);
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[03:09:10] <nrubsig> *plock*
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[03:09:39] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: who did that ? K or R from K&R ?
[03:09:42] <sommerfeld> jbk: returning to your original question
[03:09:51] * nrubsig makes a note to shoot someone...
[03:10:16] * nrubsig tries to remeber jbk's real name...
[03:10:36] <sommerfeld> jbk: the pattern matching it does depends on the mode bits.  if an instruction is V9-only and you are not in V9 mode, the pattern doesn't match
[03:11:09] <jbk> ahh
[03:11:28] <sommerfeld> what's the mnemonic for the branch-with-prediction instruction that failed to match?
[03:12:11] <Megaf> cat /proc/cpuinfo = ?
[03:12:12] <sommerfeld> ah, i found them.
[03:12:35] <sommerfeld> yah, branch with prediction are flagged as V9-mode only.
[03:12:47] <jbk> 'reserved'
[03:12:50] <Megaf> on Linux cat /proc/cpuinfo show the cpu model, famaly,
[03:13:01] <sommerfeld> psrinfo -v
[03:13:02] <Megaf> famely
[03:13:16] <Megaf> no
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[03:13:44] <jbk> so it's not defined
[03:14:12] <richlowe> Megaf: psrinfo -pv
[03:14:29] <jbk> op=0, op2=3, rcond=100
[03:14:45] <Megaf> richlowe: ok, thanks, i will read the man
[03:14:46] <jbk> (page 148 of the ultra sparc architecture 2005 pdf :P)
[03:14:50] <sommerfeld> d'oh
[03:14:53] <sommerfeld> right, -pv
[03:15:00] <sommerfeld> The physical processor has 2 virtual processors (0 1)
[03:15:00] <sommerfeld>   x86 (AuthenticAMD 20F12 family 15 model 33 step 2 clock 2613 MHz)
[03:15:00] <sommerfeld>         Dual Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 885
[03:15:09] <Megaf>  psrinfo -pv
[03:15:09] <Megaf> The physical processor has 1 virtual processor (0)
[03:15:09] <Megaf>   x86 (AuthenticAMD 6A0 family 6 model 10 step 0 clock 2083 MHz)
[03:15:09] <Megaf>         AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2800+
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[03:15:33] <Megaf> sommerfeld: nice processor :)
[03:15:40] <Megaf> :P
[03:16:00] <sommerfeld> and that box has 7 more :-P
[03:16:06] <Megaf> richlowe: uname -a = uname -a?
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[03:16:49] <sommerfeld> i'm not richlowe, but, yes
[03:16:51] <jbk> so i think i have a good argument for returning invalid on it :)
[03:17:02] <Megaf> sommerfeld: hehe
[03:17:03] <Megaf> ok
[03:17:27] <jbk> sounds like the closed source version took a different approach than i did
[03:18:03] <sommerfeld> rcond= 100 binary?
[03:18:04] <jbk> i basically copied the opcode tables from the manuals
[03:18:10] <jbk> oh yeah, sorry
[03:18:20] <jbk> the docs specify the values in binary :)
[03:18:45] <Megaf> gaim
[03:18:46] <Megaf> Gaim has segfaulted and attempted to dump a core file.
[03:18:46] <Megaf> This is a bug in the software and has happened through
[03:18:46] <Megaf> no fault of your own.
[03:18:47] <Megaf> lol
[03:19:19] <sommerfeld> yah, looks like only 1,2,3,5,6,7 are defined rcond values for op=0,op2=3
[03:19:26] <jbk> each table has an associated format function for it's entries (since entries in the same table tend to have the same format), as well as which bits are used to act as an index to the table for the instruction
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[03:20:00] <jbk> and the entry can either be an instruction definition or a pointer to another table
[03:20:19] <jbk> and each instruction has a bitfield indicating which architectures it's valid on
[03:20:20] <sommerfeld> sounds like an improvement over the closed-source code
[03:20:40] <jbk> and you can overlay existing entries for specific architectures if you need to
[03:20:49] <jbk> well it makes adding new stuff fairly easy
[03:21:27] <sommerfeld> if you want to emulate the closed-source code, make sure that no matter how deep you get into the table you can still fail to match
[03:21:42] <jbk> if it just fits in an unusued entry, replace INVALID with INST("opname", V9, format_flags) and you're done
[03:21:49] <jbk> yes
[03:22:02] <sommerfeld> s/table/tree of tables/
[03:22:03] <jbk> there are no loops
[03:22:28] <jbk> you will either get to a valid instruction or a placeholder that marks it as invalid
[03:23:04] <jbk> (no loops if you graph the table dependencies)
[03:23:31] <sommerfeld> right.  directed acyclic graph or tree
[03:24:02] <sommerfeld> (depending on whether you can have multiple pointers to the same table)
[03:24:27] <sommerfeld> okay.  found a metastat -c bug.
[03:24:29] <jbk> it also seems to be a bit faster on the box i'm testing it on, not that it's really relevant
[03:24:35] <sommerfeld> (I think)
[03:24:49] <sommerfeld> jbk: that wouldn't be difficult
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[03:26:26] <sommerfeld> it looks like it's vaguely O(N) per instruction (N being the number of sparc instructions of all flavors)
[03:27:09] <jbk> ahh.. i wonder if it did what my initial prototypes did..
[03:28:04] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: does SPARC have swap instructions which only swap upper word of regx with lower word of regy ?
[03:28:11] <Triskelios> yay for working webcam chat
[03:28:12] <jbk> define word
[03:28:21] <jbk> 8,16,32 bit?
[03:28:48] <sommerfeld> nrubsig: I don't have an architecture manual in front of me.  jbk does :-)
[03:28:57] <jbk> i have two :)
[03:28:58] <sommerfeld> but it sounds like something they might have jammed into VIS
[03:30:58] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: the idea would be to do a 64bit load and then use the instructions to feed two other registers and use them for 16bit (e.g. four variables loaded/saved with one 64bt word) or 32bit (two variables loaded/saved in one 64bit word) with the swap instruction
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[03:33:22] <jbk> you would probably have to do it as multiple instructions
[03:33:27] <richlowe> probably.
[03:33:36] <jbk> you can only get the lower order bits
[03:33:42] <jbk> with ld/st
[03:33:49] <richlowe> I don't think there's any equivalent to the plethora of pdp10 halfword instructions.
[03:33:59] <jbk> so you'd have to shuffle them
[03:34:47] <jbk> remember it's _reduced_ instruction set :)
[03:34:55] <nrubsig> jbk: the idea is to do only one 64bit load at a function start and then use the register to register swap instructions to feed 8, 16 or 32bit variables and finally do a 64bit store again at function exit.
[03:35:29] <nrubsig> jbk: yes, but you could label it as "structured block load and swap" extension... :-)
[03:35:35] <jbk> you can grab the lower 8, 16, or 32 bits of a register
[03:35:36] <nrubsig> er
[03:35:47] <jbk> so you'd have to add a shift in there
[03:35:54] <jbk> to get at the higher order bits
[03:36:05] <nrubsig> jbk: otherwise I need a spare register for shift, right ?
[03:36:20] <nrubsig> (point was swap, not copy)
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[03:38:47] <jbk> you would need two instructions
[03:39:06] <jbk> actually three
[03:39:10] <jbk> and it'd require two registers
[03:40:04] <jbk> load, copy it to 2nd register, then shift right
[03:40:17] <jbk> ld [addr], %r1
[03:40:24] <jbk> mov %r1, %r2
[03:40:38] <jbk> sll %r2, 16, %r2
[03:40:39] <nrubsig> well, I only wanted a "load" and a "swap sub-word" instruction and a 64bit register and a 8/16/32bit register as destination
[03:40:46] <jbk> no
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[03:40:56] <jbk> they only have that for floating point registers
[03:41:05] <nrubsig> (yes, I know... all regs have the same width)
[03:42:12] <jbk> though what are you doing where such conversatism with instructions is needed?
[03:43:33] <richlowe> I've long suspected that nrubsig is secretly stuck in the late 80's :)
[03:43:44] <e^ipi> heh
[03:45:33] * nrubsig awaits the flash crash...
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[03:46:35] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig
[03:46:58] <nrubsig> Ok... can I sue adobe in the US each time flash crashes my browser ?
[03:47:06] <nrubsig> $100000 for each crash ?
[03:47:19] <jbk> well
[03:47:22] <jbk> i'm off.. bbl..
[03:47:27] <nrubsig> richlowe: why the 80' ?
[03:47:53] * nrubsig stares at jmcp
[03:48:02] <Chipdancer> nrubsig: is he alive this morning?
[03:48:41] <nrubsig> Chipdancer: alive yes, awake... unknown.
[03:49:02] <Chipdancer> hrmm..
[03:49:14] * Chipdancer asks his earlier question again in the vain hope that he is not alone
[03:49:17] <Chipdancer> is anybody here running snv66+xen with zfsroot?
[03:49:34] * nrubsig runs Solaris in VMware
[03:49:47] <nrubsig> (without ZFSroot)
[03:50:02] <richlowe> nrubsig: it was as good a time as any, and by being earlier than '93 would subtley annoy you. ;)
[03:50:09] <Chipdancer> I'm having issues getting xen to boot with a zfsroot, but no problems on ufsroot and no problems booting normally under zfsroot
[03:50:19] <nrubsig> richlowe: ?!
[03:50:22] <Chipdancer> (I haven't worked out the correct grub entry)
[03:52:41] * oninoshiko maintains there is nothing wrong with the late 80s
[03:53:25] <Chipdancer> yay, I think I've found a post on xen-discuss discussing the problem!
[03:53:48] <Chipdancer> GRUB, zfs-root + Xen: Error 16: Inconsistent filesystem structure
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[04:04:22] <Chipdancer> http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do?bug_id=6584697
[04:04:39] <Chipdancer> so it claims it is in state 8 - Fix Available - where to I find that fix?
[04:06:04] <Triskelios> Fixed In   	 e_066
[04:06:23] <Triskelios> beats me as to what branch that is
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[04:06:59] <StylusEater> hi
[04:07:06] <Chipdancer> Triskelios: that's what I'm wanting to know.. so I can download/apply that fix to my live system
[04:07:28] <Chipdancer> where's jmcp when you want a straight answer :P
[04:07:35] <nrubsig> dead
[04:10:05] * nrubsig kicks jmcp's corpse
[04:10:22] <StylusEater> no iso's at get.opensolaris.org?
[04:10:24] <nrubsig> hey, that makes fun!
[04:10:26] * nrubsig kicks jmcp's corpse again
[04:10:39] <StylusEater> bah...ignore me
[04:10:46] <nrubsig> mom
[04:11:25] <nrubsig> StylusEater: try http://www.opensolaris.org/os/downloads/sol_ex_dvd/
[04:12:02] <StylusEater> still have to sign in... *sigh*
[04:12:09] <nrubsig> erm
[04:12:12] <nrubsig> that's normal
[04:12:30] <StylusEater> are there any torrents for opensolaris yet?
[04:12:31] <nrubsig> StylusEater: as long there are closed binaries you have to login
[04:12:43] <nrubsig> StylusEater: none official
[04:12:54] <StylusEater> gah
[04:13:09] <nrubsig> StylusEater: try http://www.genunix.org/distributions/belenix_site/
[04:13:12] * StylusEater needs to write mr. schwartz an e-mail
[04:13:17] <nrubsig> no login required
[04:13:27] * nrubsig crosses his eyes
[04:13:48] * nrubsig uses the Allspark to summon jmcp
[04:14:09] <StylusEater> :-p
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[04:16:30] <Megaf> i need a Linux to Solaris traslator....
[04:16:37] <Megaf> translator*
[04:16:59] <Megaf> megaf@megafsun:~$ whereis opera
[04:17:00] <Megaf> bash: whereis: command not found
[04:17:15] <dlg> which opera?
[04:17:38] <Megaf> dlg: yes thanks
[04:17:57] <Megaf> $ opera
[04:17:58] <Megaf> The Opera binary is not located at "/usr/local/lib/opera/9.22-20070716.1/opera".Please modify the wrapper script at "/usr/bin/opera".
[04:18:04] <Megaf> where is Opera?
[04:18:21] <Megaf> hm
[04:18:24] <dlg> find /usr -name opera
[04:19:12] <Triskelios> maybe you didn't correctly install opera?
[04:19:23] <Megaf>  find /usr -name opera
[04:19:24] <Megaf> /usr/bin/opera
[04:19:28] <Megaf> =/
[04:19:48] <Megaf> Triskelios: pkgadd -d opera-9.22-20070716.1-static-qt-sol10-intel-en.pkg
[04:19:57] <Megaf> correct?
[04:20:12] <Tempt> HAHAHA
[04:20:14] <Tempt> hahaha
[04:20:15] <Tempt> ha.
[04:20:17] <Tempt> Give up
[04:20:20] <Triskelios> yeah, you'd think it wouldn't be broken by default
[04:20:25] <Tempt> Opera packages have been fscked for ages now.
[04:20:35] <Tempt> Although .. they actually provide a static build of 9.22 now?
[04:20:44] <Tempt> Amazing.
[04:20:54] <Megaf> Oo
[04:20:55] <Tempt> They had only a shared build before and it dumped core like a maniac.
[04:21:00] <Megaf> can you help me?
[04:21:10] <Megaf> i wanna Opera
[04:21:18] <Triskelios> Tempt: afaik there are only shared builds for sparc
[04:21:25] <Tempt> Indeed.
[04:21:28] <Tempt> Why is that?
[04:21:36] <Triskelios> nobody knows
[04:21:41] <Tempt> Given they have to spec on the correct library versions they build against.
[04:21:52] <Tempt> They also produce packages that write into /usr (EVIL!)
[04:21:53] <Triskelios> Megaf: pkginfo | grep opera
[04:22:14] <Triskelios> Megaf: pkgchk -l <name of package> to list files in the package, maybe that will help you find the file
[04:22:15] <Megaf> pkginfo | grep opera
[04:22:15] <Megaf> alien        o9opera                  opera
[04:22:17] <Megaf> hm
[04:22:30] <Tempt> ffbfd348 __19X11OpBitmapInternalii+0xac(15d5158, 2, 2, 0, 0, 0)
[04:22:33] <Tempt> ffbfd3b8 __11X11OpBitmapiibT3Ui+0x60(15d4d10, 2, 2, 0, 0, 0)
[04:22:39] <Tempt> I gather that's somewhere in something
[04:22:41] <Tempt> ;)
[04:23:23] <Megaf> aha!
[04:23:26] <Megaf> /lib/opera/9.22-20070716.1/opera
[04:23:29] <Megaf> o/
[04:23:30] <Triskelios> wow
[04:23:33] <Triskelios> totally broken
[04:23:37] <Triskelios> \/lib?!
[04:23:49] <sommerfeld> that's .. so wrong
[04:24:00] <Tempt> haha
[04:24:03] <Tempt> Exactly.
[04:24:03] <sommerfeld> not needed to mount /usr
[04:24:08] <Triskelios> I guess they had an automated build system and nobody has checked the results for years
[04:24:54] <Tempt> They just stopped caring about desktop platforms
[04:25:06] <Megaf> # Location of the Opera binaries
[04:25:07] <Megaf> OPERA_BINARYDIR=/lib/opera/9.22-20070716.1/
[04:25:07] <Megaf> export OPERA_BINARYDIR
[04:25:08] <Megaf> done
[04:25:12] <Megaf> :)
[04:25:51] <Megaf> megaf@megafsun:~$ opera
[04:25:51] <Megaf> OPERA_DIR unset and not in default location (/usr/local/share/opera/)
[04:25:52] <Megaf> lol
[04:26:04] <Tempt> There's a huge anti-opera movement with the linux weenie brigade.
[04:26:25] <Megaf> /share/opera...
[04:26:26] <Tempt> So they don't really pour much time into their non-windows desktop platforms because they've been flamed senseless for years.
[04:27:35] <Tempt> Anyway, there's now 9.22 statics for SPARC.
[04:27:36] <Megaf> megaf@megafsun:~$ opera
[04:27:40] <Megaf> it works!!
[04:27:43] <Megaf> =D
[04:27:48] <Megaf> hahahah
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[04:31:40] <Megaf> thanks all
[04:35:15] <Megaf> Tempt: Triskelios: sommerfeld: Opera works now. http://www.flickr.com/photos/megaf/1088619184/
[04:38:29] <cyborg--> so... i installed SXCE,  and i didnt do a full install...  so i still don't have iscsitadm
[04:38:35] <Triskelios> Megaf: um... okay, if I were to drop firefox, I'd probably rather use konq...
[04:38:46] <cyborg--> with solaris, how would i go about  installing it manually
[04:40:00] <palowoda> It's just getting all the plugins to work is a pain in the ass.
[04:40:07] <Megaf> i need a OpenSolaris wallpaper now
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[04:40:40] <sommerfeld> cyborg--: go to your install image (DVD or whatever) and find the Product subdirectory
[04:40:48] <sommerfeld> (Solaris_11/Product or what have you)
[04:41:23] <Triskelios> palowoda: all the viable browsers support netscape-style plugins, fortunately
[04:42:04] <Triskelios> Megaf: SXCE ships with a bunch of nice ones, you can extract them from the package if you're using Nexenta...
[04:42:07] <palowoda> Hmm does opera support flash?  Or is that not viable.
[04:43:11] <Megaf> Triskelios: how you know? im running nexenta, for a while...
[04:43:33] <Megaf> im awaiting for OpenSolaris DVD
[04:43:34] <sommerfeld> looks like SUNWiscsitgtr and SUNWiscsitgtu
[04:43:34] <sommerfeld> palowoda: so, the opera that runs on the Nintendo Wii has flash support.
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[04:43:34] <cyborg--> So, i installed SXCE,   i did not do a full install though as I am not interested in everything, but it did not  had iscsitadm
[04:43:34] <Triskelios> palowoda: yes, flash is a regular plugin and will work
[04:43:35] <cyborg--> so,  i don't understand and cannot find any information on  the package management in solaris,  so i have no idea how  to add iscsitadm ?
[04:43:39] <cyborg--> an iscsi target project
[04:44:01] <Triskelios> Megaf: the default theme is kinda obvious in your screenshot
[04:44:10] <Megaf> hahah
[04:44:11] <Megaf> ok
[04:44:18] <Triskelios> cyborg--: sommerfeld just told you
[04:44:32] <cyborg--> i had to close and open,  my terminal went funny sorry i missed it
[04:44:47] <cyborg--> i didnt think it went though, sorry
[04:45:16] <Triskelios> cyborg--: look in Solaris_11/Product on your install DVD
[04:45:43] <cyborg--> i dont have the dvd, but i'll mount the iso's through loopback
[04:45:46] <cyborg--> and then... pkgadd ?
[04:45:48] <Triskelios> pkgadd -d  . SUNWiscsitgtr SUNWiscsitgtu
[04:45:54] <Tempt> Megaf: I'm installing the SPARC static now, we'll see how it goes.
[04:45:55] <richlowe> and their dependencies.
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[04:47:34] <Tempt> ... works
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[04:49:22] <Megaf> Tempt: o/
[04:49:48] * nrubsig looks at Tpenta
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[04:54:18] <Megaf> i wanna a niagara 8 =~
[04:57:19] <Tempt> N8?
[04:57:26] <Tempt> Man, they've only just released the N2.
[04:57:43] <Megaf> with 8 cores*
[04:57:50] <Tempt> Meh.
[04:57:50] <nrubsig> Tempt: well, victoria falls is under construction... :-)
[04:58:10] <Tempt> Megaf: Go buy a T1000 then.
[04:58:31] <nrubsig> Tempt: and if TheRegister is right we may see Niagara-style 8socket machines with 16 cores and 16 threads per core (=2048 threads)
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[04:58:41] <Tempt> I must be the only one not entirely in love with the UltraSPARC-T1
[04:58:56] <Tempt> nrubsig: And that will be a truly awesome machine. Can't wait.
[04:59:04] <sommerfeld> if you want a niagara 8, buy 8 niagara 1's, or wait a bit and buy 4 niagara 2's..
[05:00:15] <CIA-17> rica: 6590748 builds fail due to a missing rule for tnrhdb and friends
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[05:02:29] <sommerfeld> okay, now I need to find jmcp or someone with FC guru status.
[05:03:15] * nrubsig needs to find jmcp, too.
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[05:03:51] <Megaf> brb
[05:03:52] <nrubsig> does MOSIX run om sun4v ?
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[05:04:38] <Jondice> so with minicom, is it possible to treat a parallel port on a pc as a serial port?
[05:04:57] <Jondice> when i attempt to use /dev/parport0 in linux connected to a sun ultra 60, i see nothing
[05:05:19] <Tempt> Ummn.
[05:05:36] <Tempt> So you've connected the parallel ports of two machines together?
[05:05:45] <Tempt> That'd be a funky cable.
[05:06:18] <Jondice> well, the serial and parallel ports on the ultra 60 are both db-25 female
[05:06:27] <Tempt> And now, for your daily dose of anti-Solaris FUD: http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/08/11/1741256.shtml
[05:06:42] <Jondice> and i don't have a serial <-> parallel adapter at the moment
[05:06:47] <Jondice> but perhaps i should invest in one..
[05:06:48] <Tempt> Jondice: Same plug. That's the only thing that is the same. Other than the fact that they're ports.
[05:07:15] <Tempt> Jondice: a serial<>parallel converter would most like be hard to find these days and most definately expensive.
[05:07:51] <Jondice> hmm, maybe i can dig up one somewhere, i think i had one i used for programming my calculator
[05:07:52] <Jondice> years ago
[05:08:21] <Triskelios> Tempt: I think he just means a DB-9 to DB-25 adapter
[05:08:30] <e^ipi> crap... too much to drink
[05:09:03] <Jondice> Triskelios, right, my bad
[05:09:37] <Tempt> A DB-9 to DB-25 ain't going to turn serial into parallel
[05:09:55] <Tempt> Why do they put parallel ports on machines anyway?
[05:09:58] <Tempt> Nobody ever uses them.
[05:10:15] <sommerfeld> Tempt: google for laplink cable.  hack back in the days when laptops had parallel ports and didn't have ethernet.
[05:10:16] <Jondice> well, i'll be able to use the serial port on the pc if i have that adapter
[05:10:21] <Tempt> Last time I saw a good use for a parallel port is making a sound device with a resister ladder.
[05:10:28] <Jondice> so it will work hopefully...
[05:10:36] <Tempt> sommerfeld: Yes, but ethernet became common a long time ago.
[05:10:45] <Jondice> right now the ultra 60 is just making a sound that sounds ...disgruntled.. when i turn it on
[05:10:46] <LeftWing> Tempt: They're good for JTAG programming.
[05:10:50] <Jondice> it goes froma low pitch to a lower pitch
[05:10:54] <Tempt> sommerfeld: You'd probably pay more for a laplink cable than you would for a pair of pcmcia ethernets
[05:11:07] <sommerfeld> Jondice: DB9-serial to DB25-serial adapters aren't too hard to find.
[05:11:10] <Tempt> LeftWing: Ooh, good point. Done any of that lately? :)
[05:11:15] <LeftWing> Tempt: Yes! :P
[05:11:23] <Tempt> LeftWing: ooerrr. Do tell!
[05:11:24] <sommerfeld> Tempt: first laptop I bought didn't have pcmcia (25mhz 386 of some sort)
[05:11:26] <Triskelios> Jondice: check if a fan is clogged
[05:11:31] <LeftWing> Tempt: Just Comp Eng coursework.
[05:11:36] <Tempt> aah.
[05:12:16] <sommerfeld> Had to use this bizarro parallel port ethernet adapter that did 4-bit-at-a-time bidirection I/O
[05:13:27] <Tempt> Ooh, slashdot quote of the day: Open-sourcing Solaris seems more of an end-of-life abandonware move than a product line.
[05:13:30] <Tempt> Loving it.
[05:13:53] <Jondice> Triskelios, the fan for the 2 cpus, the chasis fan, and the power supply fan all seem to be good =/
[05:14:19] <richlowe> Tempt: given the last thing I want opensolaris to be seen as is a sun product line, I'm fine with that.
[05:14:30] <richlowe> though I guess the meaning isn't intended to suggest that neither are actually the case...
[05:14:58] <richlowe> it's bad for Sun for it to be seen as a product of theirs, too.
[05:15:13] <richlowe> given they have no control over what we say, really, and no means of reprimand, us being seen as in anyway representing them would be a fatal mistake.
[05:15:41] <Tempt> Heh.
[05:15:42] <Jondice> Triskelios, the sound seems to occur after the hard drives spin up for a sec
[05:15:49] <Tempt> I'm just having my laugh at the slashweenies.
[05:16:10] <Jondice> Triskelios, so I'm guessing there's nothing wrong with the system board or cpus
[05:16:44] <Tempt> Man, how ignorant are these guys?
[05:16:52] <Tempt> "Fujitsu SPARC machines won't run anything after Solaris 8!"
[05:16:57] <Tempt> *boggle*
[05:17:01] <e^ipi> o_O
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[05:18:25] <Megaf> I`m back =D
[05:19:53] <Megaf> Tempt: what you think about Looking Glass?
[05:20:11] <Triskelios> now *that* is a dead end...
[05:20:30] <Megaf> why
[05:21:02] <Megaf> http://www.flickr.com/photos/megaf/1088965116/
[05:21:07] <Megaf> is good?
[05:21:39] <Triskelios> nobody has worked on it in like 2 years, it still had massive rough edges
[05:21:59] <Megaf> um
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[05:22:14] <Megaf> its bad
[05:27:34] <Megaf> Triskelios: how to configure my X?
[05:27:40] <Megaf> xorg.conf?
[05:27:46] <Megaf> nop
[05:27:51] <Megaf> xf86?
[05:28:14] <Triskelios> Megaf: not sure about Nexenta. does dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg work for you?
[05:28:46] <Megaf> Triskelios: yes, thanks
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[05:29:52] <richlowe> Tempt: does OPL suddenly not count?
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[05:33:41] <Tempt> aah, coffee
[05:33:44] <Tempt> espresso anyone?
[05:34:08] <Tempt> richlowe: OPL?
[05:35:23] <sommerfeld> "olympus product line".  the Mx000 systems that just escaped.  jointly developed by sun and fujitsu
[05:35:43] <Tempt> Oh, apparently not.
[05:36:00] <Tempt> Fujitsu machines only run Solaris 8 according to slashdot; and of course; slashdot is always right!
[05:36:01] <e^ipi> i'm finally picking up a half decent espresso machine tomorrow
[05:36:18] <Tempt> ooooh
[05:36:22] <Tempt> whatchya gettin'?
[05:37:01] <e^ipi> i've heard from a bunch of people that the starbucks 'barista' line machines are not too bad, and one of the people i work with is getting rid of one for $50
[05:37:13] <Tempt> $50 is a winning pricepoint.
[05:37:34] <e^ipi> and i don't mean "people" as in starbucks people, i mean "people" as in people who actually care about coffee
[05:37:41] <Tempt> They're a rebadged Saeco
[05:38:26] <e^ipi> i thought they were a rebadged silvia
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[05:39:04] <Tempt> Aah, no.
[05:39:15] <Tempt> If they were a rebadged Silvia at that price everyone would have one.
[05:39:23] <Tempt> coffeegeek.com is your friend
[05:39:36] <e^ipi> regardless, for $50, it's quite a good student machine
[05:40:40] <Tempt> For $50 it's full of win.
[05:40:57] <Tempt> Besides, there is a wealth of info on coffeegeek about getting the best possible result from those machines
[05:41:37] <Megaf> brb, i think so
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[05:42:13] <Tempt> Mm, this coffee is particularly dee-licious
[05:42:30] <Tempt> local roaster, about 5 days old, ristretto
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[06:03:29] <sponix> jamesd: you there ?
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[06:20:58] 
[06:21:12] <Me[-_-]gaf> is XFCE Like?
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[06:22:41] <Me[-_-]gaf> bye all
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[06:25:47] <triplah_> Tempt: ristretto ++
[06:26:59] <Tempt> Indeed.
[06:27:09] <triplah_> are you in aus?
[06:27:35] <triplah_> few americans have any idea what good coffee is, despite what they say
[06:27:38] <Tempt> Indeed.
[06:27:42] <triplah_> figured
[06:27:43] <triplah_> :)
[06:28:30] <triplah_> that was the biggest culture shock i went though over there
[06:28:43] <triplah_> admittedly not a big, but i was pretty gobsmacked for a considerable amount of time
[06:28:47] <triplah_> big one*
[06:28:57] <Tempt> You mean you don't like stewed muddy water?
[06:28:59] <Tempt> I'm shocked.
[06:29:18] <triplah_> haha
[06:29:43] <triplah_> dont forget the cream
[06:30:28] <moazamraja> hmmmm.......
[06:30:41] <moazamraja> how do aussies have coffee? milk, no milk?
[06:30:48] <triplah_> depends
[06:30:55] <e^ipi> it falls out of the cup
[06:31:00] <e^ipi> because they're upside-down
[06:31:09] <triplah_> haha
[06:31:55] <triplah_> moazamraja: the ristretto we were just talking about has no milk, as do short blacks, long blacks, americanos and dopios
[06:32:04] <triplah_> afagatto has icescream
[06:32:09] <triplah_> icecream*
[06:32:35] <triplah_> flat white, latte and long/short machiatto's do have milk
[06:32:43] <triplah_> however small that amount of milk may be
[06:33:11] <triplah_> or large :)
[06:33:48] <Tempt> Don't often have milk because it's hard to get the kangaroos to stay still long enough to milk them.
[06:33:55] <Tempt> And if they get stroppy you'll have a hard ride to work.
[06:34:04] <triplah_> :)
[06:34:10] <richlowe> Tempt: milk the koalas.
[06:34:17] <triplah_> ahaha
[06:34:26] <triplah_> that dangerous too
[06:34:55] <triplah_> http://www.geocities.com/muirnin/Dropbear.jpg
[06:35:34] <nrubsig> TentacleDeathMonster(-Chicken)
[06:35:53] <richlowe> triplah_: hah.
[06:36:59] <moazamraja> well..., all this talk is making me thirsty for some milk-tea
[06:38:24] <e^ipi> like the shirpas drink?
[06:38:30] <nrubsig> http://geocities.com/muirnin/db.htm?200712
[06:38:49] <e^ipi> just yak milk heated to 60 or 70 degrees C where it boils because of the lower air pressure ?
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[06:39:04] <nrubsig> Tpenta: seems you lied the day when you said that Australia is nice for tourists: http://geocities.com/muirnin/db.htm?200712
[06:40:03] <triplah_> hahaha
[06:40:16] <triplah_> we don't need to make up scary creatures here
[06:40:23] <nrubsig> still no match for the komodo dragons... :-)
[06:40:27] <triplah_> there are enough things that could kill you as soon as you step outside
[06:40:28] <triplah_> ;)
[06:40:47] <nrubsig> triplah_: bees ? woman ?
[06:41:02] <nrubsig> er
[06:41:02] <e^ipi> women bees...
[06:41:03] <triplah_> we tend not to talk about them too much
[06:41:10] <nrubsig> ex-wifes I mean
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[06:41:24] <e^ipi> drunken australian rugby hooligans
[06:41:25] <e^ipi> ?
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[06:41:38] <triplah_> e^ipi: they are trying to get rid of them
[06:41:51] <triplah_> i think they should release a rugby-seeking virus
[06:42:04] <e^ipi> like when they poisoned the feral cats?
[06:42:07] <triplah_> that cripples people with an IQ below 90 and too many muscles
[06:42:24] <triplah_> yeah, heh. we have a nice history of doing pest control the wrong way
[06:42:32] <triplah_> i'm sure you've all seen the ep of the simpsons with the toads
[06:42:33] <triplah_> :)
[06:42:56] <nrubsig> triplah_: which one ?
[06:43:10] <triplah_> nrubsig: where the aussies want to give bart the boot
[06:43:31] <triplah_> "throw another shrimp on the barbie"
[06:43:36] <nrubsig> triplah_: I need the season/episode numbers ...
[06:43:46] <triplah_> nrubsig: ok, looking
[06:43:55] <triplah_> E16 S6
[06:44:04] <triplah_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_vs._Australia
[06:44:05] <Triskelios> "Bart vs Australia"
[06:44:07] <Triskelios> yeah
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[06:48:58] <nrubsig> Does anyone have comments about ?
[06:49:03] <nrubsig> er
[06:49:07] <nrubsig> Does anyone have comments about http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/indiana-discuss/2007-August/002079.html ?
[06:50:34] <e^ipi> yes. "indiana is a distraction. ignore it."
[06:50:49] <richlowe> or "Why the hell would you Cc it to marketing"
[06:51:00] <richlowe> N1 ksh93!
[06:51:02] * richlowe ducks
[06:52:31] <Gekkko> hmm
[06:52:37] <Gekkko> another month, another 50kb/s.
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[06:55:11] <Tempt> somebody actually wasted the time to write a multipage shell diatribe
[06:55:15] <Tempt> unbelievable
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[06:59:44] <e^ipi> shells are important when you're using a serial terminal to your school's VAX in the other building
[07:00:41] <Gekkko> omg. not a good day
[07:00:57] <Gekkko> two pc's I work with just blew up in a storm lol
[07:01:00] <Gekkko> have to work out what died.
[07:01:13] <Gekkko> can't verify DMI pool data.
[07:01:21] <Gekkko> so, the fun begins of pulling apart teh PC
[07:01:36] <Gekkko> the cpu is fine, power supply is fine, the ram could be clusterfucked, floppy fine, cdrom fine.
[07:01:43] <Gekkko> mobo unsure and hdds are fucked to the hell.
[07:01:46] <bda>  * Peepe the hamster runs in his wheel.
[07:01:49] <bda> <mrsBitters> Take a good look, children. It will prepare you for your lives in our nightmarish corporate system.
[07:01:52] <bda> zim++
[07:02:11] <e^ipi> heh
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[07:05:13] <Tempt> bda: I demand piggies!
[07:05:20] <nrubsig> Tempt: dia...what ?
[07:05:42] <Gekkko> I am feeling fat, and sassy.
[07:06:03] <bda> Tempt: No, Tempt! These piggies are for SCIENCE!
[07:06:04] <Gekkko> I wonder, asm or C?
[07:07:15] <Tempt> nrubsig: Oh, that wasn't your crazy post, was it?
[07:07:28] <Tempt> Oh dear. My apologies
[07:07:35] <nrubsig> Tempt: which crazy post ?
[07:07:36] <nrubsig> erm
[07:07:49] <Tempt> Oops ;)
[07:07:57] <bda> nrubsig is crazy. Put him in onna them crazy buckets.
[07:08:12] <nrubsig> Tempt: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/indiana-discuss/2007-August/002079.html is crazy... why ?
[07:08:59] * Tempt hands nrubsig some Xanax
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[07:11:03] <Gekkko> rofl at this windows vista bug: "A memory leak occurs when you use the Windows Energy screen saver."
[07:11:11] <Tempt> Oops, I hope he isn't too upset.
[07:11:12] <e^ipi> Gekkko, asm or C for what?
[07:11:18] <richlowe> Tempt: probably flash again.
[07:11:21] <Gekkko> for learning
[07:11:32] <richlowe> Tempt: one of the best reasons to never, ever use chatzilla.
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[07:11:44] <nrubsig> flash crash
[07:11:45] <nrubsig> again
[07:11:51] <e^ipi> depends, are you more interested in learning how a computer works, or just how to write code?
[07:11:52] <Tempt> Just use irsii ffs.
[07:12:00] <Gekkko> e^ipi: both?
[07:12:01] <Gekkko> lol
[07:12:05] <Tempt> seen sbhara
[07:12:10] <Tempt> seen sbhara
[07:12:13] <Tempt> !seen sbhara
[07:12:16] <Drone> I've never seen sbhara talk in #opensolaris.
[07:12:37] <Tempt> meh.
[07:12:38] <nrubsig> !seen satan
[07:12:39] <e^ipi> Gekkko, learn C first, then shortly thereafter, learn ASM
[07:12:39] <Drone> satan (satan!n=chatzill at dslb-084-058-238-163 dot pools.arcor-ip.net) was last seen in #opensolaris on Tue 12 Jun 2007 00:51 GMT, saying 'Grrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh'.
[07:12:51] <nrubsig> !seen ahappyuser
[07:12:54] <Drone> I've never seen ahappyuser talk in #opensolaris.
[07:13:00] <Gekkko> e^ipi: lol, you make it sound like it'll take 2 hours
[07:13:01] <Gekkko> :P
[07:13:06] <nrubsig> !seen porno_movie
[07:13:09] <Drone> I've never seen porno_movie talk in #opensolaris.
[07:13:14] <e^ipi> you can teach a monkey C in a couple weeks
[07:13:17] <e^ipi> it's really not that hard
[07:13:36] <e^ipi> ASM, especially on a RISC machine, less so... you just need to get your alignments right
[07:14:17] <Tempt> !seen reasonable
[07:14:20] <Drone> I've never seen reasonable talk in #opensolaris.
[07:14:31] <Gekkko> !seen violence
[07:14:32] <e^ipi> drone's a smart bot...
[07:14:34] <Drone> I've never seen violence talk in #opensolaris.
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[07:19:59] <Gekkko> what real world use does asm have anyway
[07:20:09] <Tempt> yeah
[07:20:14] <Tempt> since all our CPUs run c code natively
[07:20:18] <Tempt> we don't need it anymore
[07:20:42] <Gekkko> it's gotta have some advantage
[07:20:57] <dlg> mmmc
[07:21:00] <e^ipi> OS development, embedded systems, compiler development
[07:21:22] <e^ipi> understanding how the damned machine works in the first place
[07:21:24] <Gekkko> I know embedded systems, mmm embedded
[07:21:30] <Gekkko> lol
[07:21:35] <Gekkko> e^ipi: I said real world use though
[07:21:39] <Gekkko> understanding != real world.
[07:21:42] <Gekkko> :P
[07:22:06] <sommerfeld> being able to read disassembled machine code means you have a much better chance of root-causing crashes.
[07:22:07] <e^ipi> no, of course not... that's why we allow people who watch the operation show perform surgery
[07:23:12] <sommerfeld> relatively little hand-generated assembler exists in modern operating systems -- typically you only find it the guts of trap handlers and the like in order to set up an environment in which C code can run.
[07:24:09] <Gekkko> probably a good idea to learn ARM ASM than any other ASM though
[07:24:12] <sommerfeld> and also in certain really performance-critical regions (bcopy/memcpy family)
[07:24:25] <sommerfeld> it's a good idea to learn multiple assembly languages
[07:24:33] <sommerfeld> from radically different architectures
[07:24:40] <Gekkko> lol
[07:24:41] <Gekkko> why?
[07:24:50] <e^ipi> because different architectures act differently
[07:25:03] <sommerfeld> the more you learn, the quicker you can pick up new ones
[07:25:36] <e^ipi> RISC is load/store, CISC is orthagonal to greater or lesser degrees
[07:25:47] <e^ipi> itanium is weird and I've not gotten around to learning it
[07:26:16] <Gekkko> what's x86?
[07:26:24] <e^ipi> CISC
[07:26:39] <Gekkko> k.
[07:26:48] <Gekkko> SPARC is RISC?
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[07:27:00] <sommerfeld> x86 is ugly CISC
[07:27:19] <sommerfeld> vax was more elegant CISC
[07:27:28] <e^ipi> people who've never learned any ASM are quick to dismiss it, but I'm of the opinion that it's invaluable to learning how to program well
[07:27:39] <e^ipi> Gekkko, yes, SPARC is risc
[07:28:04] <Gekkko> I need to buy K&R
[07:28:12] <Gekkko> it's just not the same reading it off my PDA
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[07:28:27] <bda> "Solaris Systems Programming" by Rich Teer is also really really good.
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[07:28:36] <bda> (referencing K&R/C stuff)
[07:28:41] <e^ipi> not as an intro to  C book it's not
[07:28:46] <bda> For sure. :)
[07:29:03] <Gekkko> lol
[07:29:10] <Gekkko> K&R is good from what I've heard.
[07:29:13] <Gekkko> from everyone.
[07:29:33] <bda> Though honestly I don't know shit for C but it's still been really helpful to me.
[07:29:34] <Gekkko> writting a GUI for things though, that's fugly.
[07:30:48] <e^ipi> it's not so bad depending on your toolkit
[07:30:50] <e^ipi> Qt is beautiful
[07:31:03] <e^ipi> C++ though
[07:31:06] <Gekkko> yeah
[07:31:09] <Gekkko> I was talking C
[07:31:13] <Gekkko> not C++ or ObjC
[07:31:51] <e^ipi> GTK+ is C that pretends to be C++
[07:32:12] <Gekkko> and it makes it ugleh
[07:32:21] <Gekkko> FLTK is what in the world of coding
[07:32:27] <Jondice> i hate it when c libraries try to do that =(
[07:32:39] <Jondice> especially when you havae to mix them with c++ libraries
[07:33:07] <e^ipi> i've never used fltk
[07:33:20] <Gekkko> ncurses?
[07:33:30] <Gekkko> oh shit
[07:33:39] <Gekkko> ON is 70, SXCE will be 70 soon then >_>!
[07:33:48] <Gekkko> and I'm almost done downloading 69, gah
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[07:34:13] <bda> Well, that's what BFU is for.
[07:34:43] <e^ipi> or just not worrying about it unless there's a feature you need
[07:35:22] <Gekkko> lol
[07:36:32] <richlowe> since sdlc seems to be buggered, I don't see it being worth caring about
[07:39:26] <richlowe> and sunsolve.
[07:39:41] <Gekkko> brb
[07:40:05] <bda> Couple friends of mine just broke up. Girl is texting me, bitching about why she had to do it.
[07:40:11] <bda> "Maybe Andy is gay." "If he ever called you 'Lance' while you were pegging him, he might be gay."
[07:40:14] <bda> What's funny about that is, iPhone corrected a typo to 'pegging'.
[07:40:23] * bda looks at APPL askance.
[07:40:29] <Tempt> haha, that is funny.
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[08:20:13] <moazamraja> re
[08:22:44] <jbk> hello
[08:29:53] <moazamraja> sup jbk
[08:30:08] <jbk> just got back..
[08:30:45] <jbk> went and saw bourne ultimatium
[08:31:34] <jbk> there's a small chain of theaters around here that actually serves resturant-quality food during the movie (they remove every other row of seats and replace with tables)
[08:31:37] <jbk> kinda neat
[08:32:38] <moazamraja> whoa
[08:32:41] <moazamraja> where is that?
[08:32:45] <jbk> texas
[08:32:46] <moazamraja> i'd love a place like that
[08:32:49] <moazamraja> austin?
[08:33:00] <jbk> austin, houston, san antonio
[08:33:07] <moazamraja> do they charge crazy-money for the food?
[08:33:20] <moazamraja> ahh, i'll be visiting austin on-and-off soon, will have to try it
[08:33:21] <jbk> naah, pretty much like what you'd pay at a regular resturant
[08:33:26] <jbk> alamo drafthouse
[08:33:35] <jbk> have you been to austin before?
[08:37:17] <jbk> www.drafthouse.com btw
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[08:42:15] <moazamraja> i went to ...san antonio a couple months back
[08:42:16] <moazamraja> drove by austin
[08:42:52] <jbk> ahh
[08:42:56] <jbk> it's a neat town
[08:43:18] <jbk> it was my other preference if i didn't find something here (houston)
[08:44:48] * Chipdancer notices, upon scrollback, that there was no further activity from the corpse of jmcp
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[09:00:24] <Megaf> Good Night for All, cya
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[09:10:06] <moazamraja> jbk: how is the tech market over in houston and austin?
[09:10:28] <moazamraja> i know housing is a fraction of the priced (compared to silicon valley)
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[09:12:01] <newtoOS> For security reasons, it is best if a separate FTP User Account is created with access only to the Joomla! installation and not the whole web server if this option is available to you.
[09:12:06] <newtoOS> how can I do this ?
[09:12:30] <newtoOS> is this up to the ftp software ?
[09:12:32] <jbk> moazamraja: a small fraction of the price :)
[09:12:37] <jbk> not too sure yet
[09:12:48] <jbk> on the market
[09:12:51] <jbk> i know work is hiring
[09:13:00] <jbk> probably doesn't quite pay as well as bay area
[09:13:01] <jbk> however
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[09:13:05] <WickedWicky> heya
[09:13:12] <jbk> $1200/mo gets you into a huge house :)
[09:13:18] <jbk> and no state income tax
[09:13:27] <jbk> (well $1200/mo in houston, probably a bit more in austin)
[09:13:33] <jbk> austin's probably a bit better
[09:13:34] <jbk> more tech there
[09:13:43] <jbk> but lots of energy companies in houston
[09:14:12] <jbk> one guy i work with was previously a manager at an energy company
[09:14:16] <jbk> they got every other friday off
[09:14:19] <jbk> and each had their own office
[09:15:28] <jbk> too bad i don't get that here :)
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[09:22:59] <moazamraja> interesting
[09:23:14] <moazamraja> wifes parents are moving to austin (san marcos actually) in a couple months
[09:23:33] <moazamraja> to work at a university in San Marcos, but they plan to live in Austin
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[09:31:47] <moazamraja> http://blogs.sun.com/unixman/entry/zones_on_demand_zod_self
[09:31:49] <moazamraja> damn, that sounds super cool
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[09:38:55] <jbk> ahh san marcos is also supposed to be nice
[09:38:58] <jbk> but haven't been there..
[09:39:10] <jbk> ok.. gonna let that script run
[09:40:58] <jbk> and now time for sleep..
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[10:04:20] <theRealballchalk> morning
[10:04:41] <Chipdancer> evening
[10:05:00] <quasi> morning
[10:05:23] <theRealballchalk> does anyone know why everytime i take my laptop to a new wifi netowrk, my CDE session doesn't log in?
[10:05:33] <theRealballchalk> but at home, it's fine
[10:05:40] <Chipdancer> must be the Britons calling it morning :P
[10:05:51] <theRealballchalk> haha
[10:06:17] <Chipdancer> a few hours before them Yanks do similar :P
[10:06:25] <theRealballchalk> it's 3:03 AM here i should go but can't help to get to the bottom of this
[10:07:07] <Chipdancer> theRealballchalk: so what's happening with your strange problem?
[10:07:12] * quasi ain't a brit - but then it is sunday so morning comes a bit later
[10:08:13] <Chipdancer> you guys must just be crazy all-nighters :)
[10:08:31] <theRealballchalk> Chipdancer: i am not sure but i am googling CDE problems where i can't log into and it's not really helping.  JDS and WindowMaker works even though my /etc/hosts is different
[10:08:54] <theRealballchalk> but it's ok
[10:08:57] <theRealballchalk> it can wait
[10:09:00] <theRealballchalk> too tired for now
[10:09:11] <theRealballchalk> jds ain't bad for temp
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[10:10:44] * Chipdancer suspects jmcp of being vaguely alive and kicking
[10:10:58] <Chipdancer> could just be post-mortem tremors I suppose :P
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[10:18:01] <zan_> Hello
[10:18:55] <zan_> How do I setup source based routing in solaris ? Is there solution ?
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[10:19:06] <Chipdancer> quagga?
[10:19:08] *** phips has joined #opensolaris
[10:19:58] <zan_> no, quagga is BGP router
[10:20:03] <WickedWicky> Morning all
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[10:29:00] <Gekkko> woo
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[10:57:45] <estibi> hi
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[11:03:07] <palowoda> Bummer one of my old HP 800T switches just died.  Heck of a boat anchor, thought it never give up. Drop the chain and sail away.
[11:04:22] <Gekkko> lol
[11:05:04] <asyd> :S 10
[11:05:29] <Gekkko> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070730.wgtpiracy30/BNStory/Technology/
[11:05:37] <Gekkko> woo music piracy
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[11:10:51] <Gekkko> what bittorrent client do we all use here? rtorrent?
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[11:12:22] <Tempt> azureus
[11:12:28] <palowoda> I've used the bit torrent client from blastwave.org with firefox works ok.
[11:12:47] <Tempt> azureus runs nicely on Solaris.
[11:12:52] <Tempt> Give it a bit more RAM though.
[11:13:42] <palowoda> Everybody has 4G in their machines now that it's cheap.
[11:15:47] <Gekkko> hmm
[11:15:51] <Gekkko> I have 1GB ram
[11:16:02] <Gekkko> So Azureus on Solaris runs better than Windows or Linux?
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[11:16:15] <Gekkko> my god the new Smashing Pumpkins album is pretty good.
[11:17:12] <WickedWicky> yes it is
[11:17:17] <palowoda> If I remember right Azureus consumes memory loading a lot of java classes.
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[11:17:20] <WickedWicky> (the pumpkins)
[11:17:31] <palowoda> Porcupine Tree.
[11:17:45] <Gekkko> I love the guitarist.
[11:17:50] <Gekkko> he plays so goddamn well
[11:17:55] <Gekkko> she?
[11:17:57] <asyd> p/S 13
[11:17:58] <asyd> oups
[11:19:12] <Gekkko> ?
[11:19:15] <Gekkko> lol
[11:19:16] <Tempt> Azureus on Solaris just runs faster with more RAM allocated than the default script provides
[11:19:22] <Tempt> I give it up to 512Mb on this machine
[11:22:07] <Gekkko> :o
[11:22:14] <Gekkko> why would a bittorrent client need 512mb
[11:22:17] <Gekkko> >_>
[11:22:28] <Gekkko> I want the fucking source code to uTorrent >_>!
[11:22:39] <Stric> Gekkko: http://deluge-torrent.org/ is similar
[11:22:53] <Tempt> RAM is cheap
[11:22:56] <Tempt> Time isn't
[11:23:00] <Tempt> just feed it up
[11:23:21] <Tempt> and Azureus is all java, hence RAMtasti
[11:23:44] * Stric uses rtorrent (but not on solaris)
[11:24:07] <nightswim> rtorrent works on solaris as well
[11:24:12] <nightswim> after some minor adjustments
[11:24:18] <Tempt> I'm going to be so screwed when I have to start working on bitty boxes again
[11:24:22] <Tempt> I'm used to 20Gb of RAM
[11:24:25] <Gekkko> oooh
[11:24:28] <Gekkko> Deluge.
[11:24:54] <Tempt> and still room for more RAM
[11:25:01] <Tempt> Hopefully getting another 8Gb soon
[11:25:02] <palowoda> Slow ram.
[11:25:31] <WickedWicky> right
[11:25:41] * WickedWicky is off for a glorious two hour train ride
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[11:25:53] <palowoda> Ram is all the same right.
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[11:26:07] <Tempt> I'll take quantity over quibbling about DDR9600 X2+ V900 Quadruple pumped uber data rate fnord-2300
[11:26:42] <moazamraja> fnord-2300 ram kicks ass
[11:26:51] <moazamraja> mysql runs sooooo much faster
[11:26:58] <WickedWicky> when they go on at this pace we'll have turbo-charged DDR with nitroglycerin
[11:27:06] <Tempt> explosive performance
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[11:27:12] <WickedWicky> ya
[11:27:15] <Tempt> don't forget the giant heatsinks
[11:27:18] <Tempt> and the row of LEDs
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[11:27:21] <Tempt> that makes your RAM faster
[11:27:25] <Gekkko> I love attacking Americans
[11:27:29] <palowoda> Love the led's.
[11:27:34] <Gekkko> "You didn't hear about the time Canada took the white house?"
[11:27:41] <WickedWicky> well
[11:27:44] <Gekkko> "You didn't know you lost Vietnam?"
[11:27:47] <WickedWicky> flying to L.A. is a blast at the moment i heard
[11:27:48] <palowoda> All Americans use led's.
[11:27:56] <WickedWicky> KITT didd, so everybody should!
[11:28:19] <Tempt> This is about the time a peecee head should start flaming people with ECC RAM because it's slower
[11:28:22] <WickedWicky> off to the train station, hoorah for UMTS
[11:28:23] <Tempt> and less uber
[11:28:25] <Tempt> and has no LEDs
[11:28:34] <WickedWicky> no LEDS == no l33t
[11:29:00] <Tempt> There's something nice about logging into a system with 384Gb of RAM though.
[11:29:00] <WickedWicky> be good all
[11:29:07] <Tempt> No amount of bling keeps up with that.
[11:29:08] <palowoda> Tempt: LED's are like legal drugs.
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[11:29:16] <WickedWicky> oh
[11:29:17] <WickedWicky> crap
[11:29:22] <Tempt> My LSI sata controller is covered in LEDs
[11:29:23] <WickedWicky> seems I am leaving at the wrong moment
[11:29:26] <Tempt> Why?
[11:29:34] <Gekkko> I still use 196mb of SDRAM on my other PC.
[11:29:37] <Tempt> It's inside the machine; you can't even see them
[11:29:59] <Tempt> Gekkko: Good thing you don't use ksh93!
[11:30:04] <palowoda> Tempt: Your machine isn't clear.
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[11:30:25] <Gekkko> Tempt: woo bash.
[11:30:28] <Gekkko> lol
[11:30:29] <Tempt> palowoda: I didn't get the perspex side door option for my 880
[11:30:54] <Tempt> I was thinking about buying another chassis though
[11:30:58] <Tempt> and ricing it up
[11:31:56] <palowoda> Tempt: It goes faster with Cold Cathodes too.  :)
[11:32:47] <palowoda> Seriously ram is cheap now.  Stock up.
[11:32:50] <Tempt> and EL wire
[11:33:01] <Tempt> palowoda: Not for my machine it ain't
[11:33:05] <Tempt> 233pin Sun RAM
[11:33:09] <Tempt> or is that 234
[11:33:11] <Tempt> 234 indeed.
[11:33:18] <palowoda> Hey I found out EL causes interference.
[11:33:35] <palowoda> Sun can explain the price of ram.
[11:34:11] <Tempt> Hmm
[11:34:18] <Tempt> I can see why EL could cause hassles
[11:34:25] <Tempt> I've had it interfere with audio before
[11:34:31] <Gekkko> is there any languages that C++ is identical to?
[11:34:34] <palowoda> No EL really causes audio interference.
[11:34:35] <Tempt> But that was the crappy inverter, not the EL
[11:34:36] <Gekkko> like C# to Java
[11:35:27] <purserj> Gekkko: no not really
[11:35:29] <ofu> is ahci supported on ich9r with nevada69?
[11:35:38] <purserj> Its a super set of C as far as I know
[11:36:08] <palowoda> ofu: ich9r?
[11:36:32] <ofu> intel southbridge ich9 with raid functionality (not used)
[11:36:58] <palowoda> ofu: So it can be configured for just JBOD?
[11:37:05] <Gekkko> I want to learn C at school, but they only teach VB6.0  >_>
[11:37:08] <Gekkko> not Pascal, VB.
[11:37:11] <Gekkko> fucking lusers.
[11:37:19] <ofu> palowoda: yes, it is configured as jbod
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[11:37:58] <palowoda> ofu: Should work than.
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[11:40:19] <Gekkko> is there a way you can rename a batch of files ending with .this to .that?
[11:40:32] <cast> Gekkko: buy a book, learn then. personally i find C a lot of work, but each to their own.
[11:40:42] <cast> Gekkko: with the rename command
[11:40:53] <Gekkko> I'm gonna buy K&R.
[11:40:56] <Gekkko> is rename in Linux?
[11:41:14] <cast> uh, oh. rename might just be a GNU tool
[11:41:37] <Gekkko> oh right
[11:42:01] <Gekkko> do you know I've always been told a stupid script to do that?
[11:42:20] <palowoda> ofu:  You are talking about the ahci driver right?
[11:42:23] <Gekkko> like for files *.jpg; mv $files .*.bmp
[11:42:25] <Gekkko> or some crap.
[11:42:38] <Gekkko> as you can see bash isn't my strong point :P
[11:42:49] <ofu> palowoda: yes, sata with ahci driver
[11:43:35] <IvanR_> Tempt: I doubt your riced up 880 could beat this: http://www.rm-r.net/~bri/casemod/
[11:43:40] <palowoda> ofu: You can ask that specific question on: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=79 also.  For further verification.
[11:45:22] <Tempt> IvanR_: Seen that before
[11:45:23] <Tempt> IvanR_: Scary
[11:45:29] <palowoda> ofu: You can also search on the term "ahci" when in that forum for further details.
[11:45:35] <Tempt> IvanR_: But I plan on doing stuff that would void a service contract
[11:46:07] <palowoda> Tempt: You can't really buy a service contract for opensolaris can you?
[11:46:30] <palowoda> Don't answer.
[11:46:35] <Tempt> heh
[11:46:46] <Tempt> I'm running 10 on my 880
[11:47:03] <palowoda> I appologize.
[11:47:04] <Tempt> I'm thinking painting it ferrari red
[11:47:06] <ofu> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/device_drivers/projects/AHCI/
[11:47:17] <Gekkko> there needs to be a solaris bot
[11:47:22] <IvanR_> Yeah, can't imagine anyone taking a saw to their "spare" 15k
[11:47:23] <Tempt> and replacing the purple plastic front with something a bit flashier
[11:47:23] <ofu> palowoda: thanks, I will have a look at this
[11:47:25] <Gekkko> so you can say something stupid like !what ON
[11:47:31] <palowoda> Solaris 10 is dead.
[11:47:36] <Gekkko> or !tell new_noob ON
[11:47:41] <Tempt> Solaris is dead.
[11:47:42] <Gekkko> and it says ON is whatever ON is.
[11:47:47] <Tempt> It's all Linux, right?
[11:47:52] <Gekkko> ._.
[11:47:55] <oxygene> Tempt: not yet
[11:48:04] <palowoda> Nah Solaris 10 is friggen patch hell.
[11:48:19] <Tempt> u4 will help with that.
[11:48:27] <Gekkko> what's that make Linux?
[11:48:30] <Gekkko> a living patch?
[11:48:44] <Tempt> not a patch
[11:48:47] <Tempt> a scabby bandaid
[11:49:36] <palowoda> Tempt: Oh yeah right all the S10 updates are the saviour.
[11:49:47] <Tempt> Indeed.
[11:50:00] <palowoda> Than it starts all over again.
[11:50:01] <Tempt> Saint McNealy said so!
[11:50:07] <Tempt> and Pope Schwartz agrees!
[11:50:10] *** jamesd has quit IRC
[11:50:17] <palowoda> Scott was EOFe
[11:50:22] <palowoda> d
[11:50:45] <Stric> http://blogs.sun.com/barts/entry/rethinking_patching
[11:50:58] *** jamesd__ has quit IRC
[11:51:09] <Tempt> Not everyone wants to LU or reinstall their systems every second week
[11:51:12] <Tempt> so patches abound.
[11:51:46] <oxygene> Tempt: with solaris becoming linux, the solution is to simply replace packages with newer versions
[11:52:40] <palowoda> Solaris patch architecture only works well if the patch matrix isn't dependent on intrusive dependencies.
[11:52:56] <purserj> hey hows that package management coming in Solaris these days?
[11:53:52] <oxygene> purserj: it's good for several major releases now
[11:54:13] *** jamesd has joined #opensolaris
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[11:54:45] <moazamraja> re james
[11:54:53] <palowoda> Solaris patching should be taken to the back shed and flogged until dead.
[11:55:24] <Gekkko> Solaris patching == Windows patching?
[11:55:35] <palowoda> It's worse than that.
[11:55:47] <oxygene> palowoda: but only after its unique features (eg. atomic patching of several packages) are implemented elsewhere
[11:55:48] <Gekkko> oh noes.
[11:55:57] *** migi is now known as migi_away
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[11:56:55] <salamanders> what's the ms-win'
[11:56:58] <palowoda> oxygene: Just think Solaris patches are paid for.  Need I say more.
[11:57:07] <salamanders> what's the ms-win's update bad ?
[11:57:12] *** WickedWicky has joined #opensolaris
[11:57:22] <oxygene> palowoda: hm?
[11:57:41] <quasi> palowoda: trolling as usual?
[11:57:54] <oxygene> palowoda: that's not an architectural weakness. if you want to fix that, you better take solaris sales and marketing to the back shed..
[11:58:03] <palowoda> oxygene: No it's a problem.  Not my problem though.
[11:58:37] <oxygene> palowoda: it's a problem, yes.. but not a problem in the tools
[11:58:54] <Stric> oxygene: one problem with the "one patch, multiple packages" is if you happen to install the "other" package afterwards.. then you're screwed and need to redo all patching..
[11:59:01] <palowoda> oxygene: It's a problem of service for sale.  Go figure.
[11:59:26] <oxygene> Stric: so you store the non-applied parts on disk and apply them on demand, so what?
[11:59:30] <quasi> so similar for deadrat and suse
[11:59:34] <salamanders> is solaris patches paid for? i can update free on x86
[11:59:39] <oxygene> Stric: that's worth a bugfix, not worth killing patches
[11:59:49] <oh_noes> OH NOES
[11:59:50] <quasi> besides, updates for opensolaris doesn't cost
[12:00:09] <palowoda> salamanders: No you can't update for free on Solaris 10.  Only security patches, and maybe some drivers.
[12:00:14] <Stric> oxygene: the same thing could be solved with version dependencies
[12:00:40] <oxygene> Stric: only if you can rollback all new-installed-packages if the second-to-last one fails
[12:00:51] <Tempt> In my experience, security patches are te only runs anyone ever bothers applying anyway
[12:01:10] <Tempt> they just complain when the system the installed 7 years ago stumbles on new hardware
[12:01:13] <palowoda> Tempt: So much for patches.
[12:01:13] <salamanders> palowoda:hum...i can update all the patches which shows by smpatch,
[12:01:37] <palowoda> salamanders: With what type of support contract?
[12:01:38] <oxygene> salamanders: smpatch doesn't show all available patches anymore
[12:01:50] <salamanders> palowoda:no contract
[12:02:01] <palowoda> ugh niave people online
[12:02:02] <salamanders> oxygene:oh...
[12:02:35] <palowoda> Is Sun not informing users about what types of patches are available free?
[12:03:15] <Tempt> palowoda: People are laaaaazy.
[12:03:20] <salamanders> dunno ,anyway ,i can update all patches in smpatch.
[12:03:23] <Tempt> palowoda: Patching takes time and effort
[12:03:40] <Tempt> palowoda: And possibly some time in single-user, which they've probably not heard of.
[12:03:55] <palowoda> Users understanding of Solaris 10 vs Opensolaris takes years to understand.
[12:04:42] *** oh_noes has quit IRC
[12:04:50] <quasi> palowoda: then go away and come back in a few years when(if) you understand
[12:05:21] <palowoda> quasi: I understand more than I deserve.
[12:06:19] * Stric is wearing an opensolaris tshirt right now
[12:06:46] <salamanders> ...
[12:06:51] *** cypromis has joined #opensolaris
[12:06:52] <palowoda> Stric: Is that the one with the cool symbols?
[12:07:03] <Stric> <first 5000> and some source code
[12:07:18] <Stric> is that the "cool symbols" ?
[12:08:19] <palowoda> I seen a newer one with a guy from CNET make a video online.   It's much newer than the first versions.   They been giving them out at the Santa Clara OpenSolaris meetings.
[12:08:22] * quasi has one of those and an orange 1st year celebration tshirt as well
[12:08:46] <Tempt> hey
[12:08:53] <Tempt> Where's my OpenSolaris t-shirt?
[12:09:00] <Tempt> I've been stooged!
[12:09:24] <palowoda> Tempt: You have to fly into SF and attend on of our meetings.
[12:09:37] <Tempt> aah
[12:09:41] <Tempt> doubly stooged
[12:09:56] <Tempt> Melbourne doesn't exist on the OpenSolaris map. Too small.
[12:10:13] * quasi didn't fly into sf
[12:11:06] <palowoda> quasi: Yeah fly into San Jose and hope you stop at the end of the runway.
[12:12:00] <quasi> neither - .us is not a place I would want to go to these days
[12:12:03] <moazamraja> damn...Dell has a Core Duo 2 Quad-Core with 2GB RAM, whole system, for $659
[12:12:12] <moazamraja> tempting.....good dev box
[12:12:39] <palowoda> moazamraja: What are the schimping on?
[12:12:58] <moazamraja> whaaa?
[12:13:01] <moazamraja> is that aussie?
[12:13:07] <moazamraja> speak american, mate!
[12:13:08] <moazamraja> ;)
[12:13:33] <palowoda> What are they short changing you on the hardware.  What are they screwing you up on the promotion?
[12:13:50] 
[12:13:55] <Gekkko> omg
[12:13:57] * cast sits blinded
[12:13:58] <Gekkko> disable colour!
[12:14:00] <moazamraja> sorry :(
[12:14:09] <moazamraja> cut/paste
[12:14:10] <palowoda> 80G drive?
[12:14:12] <Gekkko> the channel should have colour disabled anyway
[12:14:30] <palowoda> 2 cents these days.
[12:14:33] <Gekkko> asyd: /mode #opensolaris +c please
[12:14:53] <moazamraja> the drive doesn't matter
[12:14:54] <asyd> oh my god
[12:14:57] <palowoda> What kind of video?
[12:15:02] <moazamraja> i have 500GB drives sitting on the shelf
[12:15:30] <asyd> Gekkko: I'm not yet in acl :/ I'm not able to fix the mode via chanserv :/
[12:15:50] <Gekkko> can you just type what I said?
[12:16:03] <moazamraja> 128MB nVidia GeForce 8300 GS
[12:16:13] <palowoda> Yech.
[12:16:22] <moazamraja> it's a good enough card
[12:16:39] <Gekkko> 128mb ATi Radeon x300.
[12:16:45] <Gekkko> it's not good on any PC.
[12:16:46] <cast> with some help on from #bash... for i in *.foo; do mv $i ${i%.foo}.bar; done
[12:16:51] <Gekkko> my Voodoo3 has better support.
[12:17:02] <Gekkko> lol cast
[12:17:03] <Gekkko> massive time delay :P
[12:17:09] <moazamraja> solaris works perfectly fine on a nvidia card
[12:17:54] <palowoda> 80G drive and a cheap video.  worthless.  Mastercard interest or Dell credit card insterest, pricesless.
[12:18:04] <palowoda> interest
[12:18:05] <asyd> Gekkko: it's probably useless with mlock
[12:18:14] *** asyd sets mode: +c
[12:18:23] <asyd> hmm, nice
[12:18:48] <moazamraja> palowoda: for a solaris machine, wtf u gonna use the video card for?
[12:19:21] <Gekkko> moazamraja: copy and paste that thing from before
[12:19:29] <moazamraja> Gekkko: nah
[12:19:36] <moazamraja> i don't wanna get shot.
[12:19:41] <moazamraja> some folks may know where i live.
[12:19:46] <palowoda> moazamraja: Watching video's 13x10ft on my wall in the backroom on the server. :)
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[12:19:56] <moazamraja> palowoda: on a opensolaris machine....., right.
[12:20:01] <palowoda> Yes
[12:20:04] <Tempt> The pretty colours or something
[12:20:09] <Tempt> They annoy people.
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[12:20:16] <salamanders> hd-tv
[12:20:17] * moazamraja is tempted to go for his credit card...
[12:20:21] <Tempt> Although my client didn't render any colour
[12:20:25] <Gekkko> moazamraja: we just disabled color
[12:20:28] <Gekkko> I wanna make sure it worked.
[12:20:30] <salamanders> needs a good video card ;)
[12:20:33] <cast_> fuck. [incoming calls disconnent my dsl]
[12:20:37] <palowoda> moaamraja: Build 69 too.
[12:20:45] <Tempt> cast_: wtf? something wrong there
[12:20:52] <moazamraja> fine...fine
[12:20:56] 
[12:20:57] <cast_> you're telling me...
[12:21:00] <moazamraja> there
[12:21:00] <Gekkko> cast_: check your splitters
[12:21:05] <Gekkko> one's probably come loose
[12:21:19] <cast_> Gekkko: happens regardless of if there's a phone plugged in, or a splitter
[12:21:22] <palowoda> At least a Nvidia 7600GS PCI-E video.
[12:22:00] <moazamraja> i just want a machine to ssh into
[12:22:01] <salamanders> GS and GT,which is better?
[12:22:10] <Gekkko> cast_: get a new phone line, router and internet connection :P
[12:22:11] <Stric> GT
[12:22:12] <moazamraja> and test network/zones/dtrace/memory
[12:22:13] <palowoda> I have a GT in my laptop.
[12:22:28] <salamanders> Stric:thx.
[12:22:57] <palowoda> 7800GTX quite fast.
[12:23:22] <cast_> Gekkko: well, believe it or not this router is an improvement over the old one...which would disconnect because it felt like it, about 10 times a day. i have a plan to remove incoming calls by setting up call forwarding, they can call the damned voip number if they want to talk
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[12:24:34] <Tempt> hey delewis.
[12:26:00] <salamanders> why 8500 haven't listed in the last release of nvidia drivers,but i can use that driver in my solaris?
[12:27:49] <salamanders> the only problem is which shows my video memory is 512M ,which is 256M in fect.
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[12:32:47] <palowoda> salamanders: What opensolaris version?
[12:32:54] <salamanders> 10 x86
[12:32:55] <salamanders> u3
[12:33:00] <salamanders> 11/06
[12:33:06] <palowoda> Boy are you out of date.
[12:33:09] <Gekkko> who wants to buy me A Book on C
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[12:33:47] <salamanders> with all patch updated in smpatch.
[12:34:00] <palowoda> patches aren't supported on opensolaris
[12:34:23] <salamanders> 11/06 is the last release, which can be download in office site.
[12:34:42] <palowoda> or are you assuming Solaris and Opensoalris are at the same level?
[12:35:01] <salamanders> of coz not.
[12:35:09] <palowoda> Your out of date than.
[12:35:32] <salamanders> e...
[12:36:34] <salamanders> seems i must join to opensolaris~
[12:36:57] <salamanders> s/to//
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[12:37:05] <palowoda> Think of it the newer stuff is always available on opensolaris and we poke fun at the people running Solaris 10 with patch levels that don't match.
[12:37:54] <moazamraja> well, I just ordered the machine....
[12:37:57] <salamanders> lol~~~
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[12:39:25] <palowoda> moazamraja: I guess your on the hook to report back how the machine works with opensolaris now.
[12:39:43] <salamanders> is opensolaris strong and safe enough in business
[12:40:25] <moazamraja> palowoda: will do
[12:40:32] <palowoda> salamanders: What is the unit of "Strong" and "Safe" your talking about?
[12:40:39] <moazamraja> salamanders: joyent.com thinks so
[12:41:03] <salamanders> moazamraja:any others?
[12:41:24] <kaiwai> palowoda: out of date? is there an updated release of Solaris?
[12:42:14] <palowoda> I always like it when people talk about "quality" as nobody has a single definition of what it means.  Even applied to their business.
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[12:43:53] <kaiwai> salamanders: have you updated your video driver to the latest nvidia build?
[12:43:54] <palowoda> And note "service" doesn't mean quality.
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[12:44:21] <salamanders> kaiwai:yep!
[12:47:16] <palowoda> salamanders: So it's the Nvidia info application that is reporting the wrong video memory footprint?
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[12:48:07] <salamanders> palowoda:yep.
[12:48:56] <salamanders> i think it could be fix in next build.
[12:48:58] <palowoda> Post a message on: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=25  rugrat will pick it up and probably log a bug with nvidia.
[12:49:20] <kaiwai> damn that was weird
[12:51:16] <moazamraja> salamanders: sun runs opensolaris internally also :)
[12:51:17] <moazamraja> in some areas
[12:51:27] <moazamraja> but, that is expected
[12:53:28] <kaiwai> there are also some windows boxes too
[12:53:32] <salamanders> palowoda: hum..how to confirm that it's a bug? 8500gt is not listed in the driver .
[12:54:05] <salamanders> kaiwai:hehe~
[12:54:12] <kaiwai> oh, regarding the bug
[12:54:30] <kaiwai> salamanders: are you sure it isn't 256MB + hyperwatchamacallit?
[12:55:03] <Stric> salamanders: it's the same chip as 8300gs and 8400gs.. are those listed?
[12:55:04] <Gekkko> oi Tempt
[12:55:04] <kaiwai> mine is a Nvidia go 7400 and it is 128MB, but it says 256MB because of the hyperwatchmacallit feature which uses 128MB of main memory
[12:55:17] <Gekkko> http://203.221.255.21/ - This is Penrith Library
[12:55:19] <Gekkko> Search porn.
[12:55:22] <palowoda> salamanders: Nvidia is Nvidia.  It's not open source. It's not even a Sun product.  And even Nvidia has their own support forms.  And rugrat is the engineer that is in contact with Nvidia and Sun.  His name is John Martin if you want to be formal.
[12:55:27] <Gekkko> actually, everyone do it, it's fucking creepy >_>
[12:55:32] <salamanders> Stric:any 8xxx are not listed...
[12:55:57] <kaiwai> salamanders: it hasn't falsely detected you video memory size
[12:57:18] <salamanders> Kaiba: ?  hum...what's the hyperwatchamacallit means?
[12:57:30] <Stric> TurboCache
[12:57:39] <Stric> HyperMemory is DAAMIT iirc
[12:57:58] <Stric> salamanders: using parts of your main memory as texture cache etc
[12:58:10] <kaiwai> damn xchat sucks
[12:58:25] <palowoda> You get what you pay for.
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[12:58:59] <salamanders> palowoda:ok ,ic :)
[13:00:22] <Stric> if there's a setting for it, you should probably disable it.. unless you're playing the very latest games in very high res, you won't notice any diff beterrn 256 and 512M
[13:00:37] <Stric> those 256M will serve you better as disk cache or so
[13:01:04] <salamanders> Stric: ok,thx!
[13:01:37] <Stric> s/beterrn/between/ ofc..
[13:02:34] <salamanders> i have the same experience in ms-win with the same video card ,and after i updated the driver,it shows back to 256M.
[13:02:39] <Tempt> Cliff Stoll:  Looking at Sun man pages versus Linux man pages is like looking at a Van Gogh or Monet after studying the work of the high school football player taking art as an "easy" elective.
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[13:05:12] <salamanders> i don't know whether this experience is suitable in solaris ;)
[13:05:56] <palowoda> A Jimi Hendrix Experience?
[13:06:39] <palowoda> Yes suitable.
[13:09:57] <salamanders> thx!
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[13:10:30] <palowoda> :) Hey Joe where you going with that Solaris in your hand.
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[13:19:27] <moazamraja> holy shit, 4am
[13:19:32] <moazamraja> i'm out
[13:19:45] <palowoda> About that time.
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[13:45:58] <jmcp> Tempt: nice quote from Stoll - where did you find it?
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[14:01:20] <Tempt> jmcp: Old quotes file in my homedir
[14:01:35] <Tempt> jmcp: Which means I probably read it in Silicon Snake Oil or similar and jotted it down
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[14:03:11] <Tempt> haha, check this: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/AS400-Hardware-and-Monitors_W0QQitemZ170138159244QQihZ007QQcategoryZ162QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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[14:06:58] <quasi> one should think it would almost be worth more as scrap metal ;)
[14:07:13] <Tempt> Depends on how recent it is
[14:07:28] <Tempt> According to IBM's website you can run a variety of OSes on the newer iSeries
[14:09:09] * ofu is still trying to install nv66 or nv69 on an ich9-connected sata disk, "Setting up Java. Please wait..."
[14:09:18] <ofu> does this take longer than 15 Minutes?
[14:09:25] <quasi> ofu: shouldn't
[14:09:26] <LeftWing> 15 Minutes is somewhat excessive. =P
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[14:09:42] <quasi> ofu: did you enable raid on the controller?
[14:09:51] <ofu> no, just plain disks
[14:10:13] <ofu> ahci can not be used for installation, because the dvd is also connected via sata
[14:10:14] <quasi> mmmkay, that's one of the common mistakes
[14:10:27] <ofu> mistake?
[14:10:33] <quasi> raid
[14:10:47] <Chipdancer> sata dvd?
[14:10:49] <ofu> if i use ahci-mode, the dvd can not be found
[14:10:58] <ofu> yes, samsung something
[14:11:15] <kaiwai> ofu: use the non-graphical one
[14:11:27] <Chipdancer> thought PATA would be around forever to support things like optical drives
[14:11:43] <ofu> i am not sure if a pata-dvd would work, because it is connected via an asus (!) bridge-chip
[14:11:50] <ofu> on an intel motherboard
[14:12:07] <Stric> ofu: fyi/ot, sata-dvd on ahci only started working recently in linux
[14:12:24] <ofu> it works on win xp ;)
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[14:35:49] * quasi yells profanities in the general direction of sunsolve - sending me back to the bloody accept page every time I try to hit the patch page
[14:39:53] <Stric> yeah, something got messed up a week or two ago
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[14:51:16] <kaiwai> hmm, I though tthat was normal for sunsolve
[14:51:33] <Gekkko[PDA]> I hate ssh.
[14:51:48] <Gekkko[PDA]> figuratively.
[14:51:58] <Tempt> urk?
[14:52:05] <Tempt> found anything better?
[14:52:30] <Gekkko[PDA]> sneakernet
[14:52:41] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol.
[14:52:46] <Stric> good joke
[14:53:00] <Gekkko[PDA]> only because my ssh server is down.
[14:53:09] <Gekkko[PDA]> eg lightning strike
[14:53:16] <Gekkko[PDA]> eg mobofucked
[14:53:19] <Gekkko[PDA]> >.>
[14:53:26] <Gekkko[PDA]> i have no irssi!
[14:53:34] * Gekkko[PDA] has withdrawels
[14:54:19] <Gekkko[PDA]> fucking
[14:54:33] <Gekkko[PDA]> "I fucky want my money fucky"
[14:54:59] <Gekkko[PDA]> The Wogboy, good movie.
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[15:11:30] <edwardocallaghan> Hey
[15:11:41] <edwardocallaghan> Anyone here !?
[15:11:46] <jmcp> sshhh
[15:11:51] <asyd> more or less, we're all sleeping
[15:11:52] <jmcp> nobody here but us lurkers
[15:12:11] <edwardocallaghan> hehe
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[15:12:25] <edwardocallaghan> This Sun Globe Desktop is very cool !
[15:12:42] <edwardocallaghan> I can get pass the school proxys with it :D
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[15:13:00] <ofu> ah, I just found my problem
[15:13:05] <edwardocallaghan> And I got a Solaris Desktop infront of me
[15:13:11] <edwardocallaghan> :D
[15:13:18] <ofu> the G33 vga-chipset doesnt work and hangs the installation
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[15:13:21] <Gekkko[PDA]> i need an ssh account please lol
[15:13:22] <edwardocallaghan> Tempt:Many thanks!
[15:13:32] <Tempt> haha
[15:13:34] <Tempt> No worries
[15:13:51] <Gekkko[PDA]> Tempt: feeling charitable?
[15:14:08] <Gekkko[PDA]> typo awareness: [on]
[15:14:25] <edwardocallaghan> Do you think this GDM is drinking bandwidth ?
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[15:14:52] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: I've got full netflow traffic analysis here
[15:15:01] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: So far it isn't been a problem.
[15:15:37] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: Having some more users on will help me get better baseline specs, but so far it'd mostly fit over a 64k link.
[15:15:46] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: and I don't pay for outbound traffic.
[15:16:01] <Tempt>     25 edward    927M  602M   3.0%   0:01:08 0.7%
[15:16:06] <Tempt> jesus, gnome eats RAM.
[15:16:24] <edwardocallaghan> yes it does :(
[15:16:30] <Tempt> Doesn't matter.
[15:16:36] <edwardocallaghan> edward wonders about KDE4
[15:16:55] <edwardocallaghan> But I only have 10mb topup a day here
[15:17:07] * Gekkko[PDA] has more irssi withdrawls
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[15:18:20] <edwardocallaghan> Tempt:How hard is it to setup this server?
[15:18:21] <Tempt> Gekkko[PDA]: Then ... use it!
[15:18:26] <Gekkko[PDA]> i can't
[15:18:29] <Gekkko[PDA]> no ssh
[15:18:34] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: Not very, but the software tends to be a bit resource hungry.
[15:18:41] <edwardocallaghan> Could I do it with a Ultra10 ?
[15:18:42] <Gekkko[PDA]> no server accounts
[15:18:44] <Tempt> Gekkko[PDA]: Run it on your workstation.
[15:18:50] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: Needs about 1Gb of RAM.
[15:18:51] <edwardocallaghan> with a gig of ram
[15:18:55] <edwardocallaghan> yea
[15:18:59] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: and it'd be pretty horrible on an Ultra-10
[15:19:06] <edwardocallaghan> hmm
[15:19:21] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: The server software eats about 1Gb after a while + your session footprint. With 2Gb you'd be good for a gnome session.
[15:19:32] <edwardocallaghan> Tempt:Could we do a howto, on howto set one up at my site
[15:19:37] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: Just keep using this one for now until I rack my new colo server. That'll be a little faster connection-wise.
[15:19:52] <asyd> Tempt: which netflow analyzer you use/like?
[15:20:02] <Gekkko[PDA]> Tempt: parents make me turn my pc off.l
[15:20:05] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: The sun docs are pretty clear. Download it, uncompress it; pkg-add it.
[15:20:11] <Tempt> asyd: NetFlow Tracker.
[15:20:25] <Tempt> asyd: Not the best, but it works and I'm too lazy to set up another.
[15:21:04] <edwardocallaghan> Well I was thinking it would be a nice artical for all them howto'ers in the Linux world who are looking at Solaris
[15:21:07] <asyd> hmm there is netflow analyzer from advantnet
[15:21:30] <edwardocallaghan> +most of them don't want to read a 200page PDF and wonder at the end of it
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[15:22:16] <Gekkko[PDA]> wonder about what
[15:22:17] <edwardocallaghan> Would be cool to have it as a HOWTO anyways
[15:22:45] <edwardocallaghan> were is this (wget for example) and where is that
[15:22:45] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: Sure. I think the little scripts I build for adding applications are probably more useful
[15:22:54] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: I've packaged them.
[15:23:01] <edwardocallaghan> OK that sounds great
[15:23:01] <Tempt> Oh, and wget is always at /usr/sfw/bin/wget
[15:23:14] <edwardocallaghan> Yea, I know &you know
[15:23:29] <Gekkko[PDA]> whats the Sun equiv. of wget?
[15:23:30] <edwardocallaghan> but Linux n00bs don't
[15:23:45] <asyd> it's more a faq than a howto
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[15:23:51] <edwardocallaghan> Although I have been known to forget :P
[15:24:20] <Gekkko[PDA]> Linux to Solaris Admin Guide (pdf) explains most.
[15:24:21] <edwardocallaghan> asyd:Yes infact I think i'll add that to my site HOWTOS now
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[15:25:47] <edwardocallaghan> I am trying to get to the people who _play_ with Linux/Solaris and not the admin's who _work_ with them
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[15:26:18] <Gekkko[PDA]> ...
[15:26:44] <Gekkko[PDA]> the pdf is geared towards anyone who uses a root account
[15:27:08] <asyd> what a metaphysical question..
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[15:27:19] <purple> hi all
[15:27:45] <purple> coud anyone tell me why the nForce network adapter isnt recognized by default?
[15:27:52] <purple> i think it should
[15:28:59] <sickness> sxce or sol10?
[15:29:11] <Gekkko[PDA]> ubuntu :P
[15:29:28] <asyd> some nforce are no recognized iirc
[15:30:08] <quasi> and some are recognized, but doesn't work
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[15:30:28] <sickness> :/
[15:30:30] <purple> damn
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[15:32:53] <quasi> purple: it is fairly easy to try out and if that doesn't do the trick, there's always the nfo driver to try
[15:33:27] <Tempt> Gekkko[PDA]: wget is wget is wget ; you get it in /usr/sfw since Sol9.
[15:33:40] <purple> quasi, i found it, off to try it
[15:33:41] <purple> :)
[15:33:56] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: Don't forget to add /opt/PCOWtools/bin to your path, since some GoodStuff(tm) lives there.
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[15:34:04] <edwardocallaghan> Tempt:I added were is wget as a FAQ
[15:34:16] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol.
[15:34:19] <edwardocallaghan> ah yes
[15:34:47] <Tempt> In fact I think I need to update PCOWtools on sgd to include some newer tools.
[15:35:15] <elops> I hate ebay!
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[15:35:51] <edwardocallaghan> Tempt:You or boyd got any U10s around ?
[15:36:00] <edwardocallaghan> with kb
[15:37:24] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: Err, no.
[15:37:31] <edwardocallaghan> Oh I better get off here and do my Java homework
[15:37:34] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: I never liked the U5/U10 machines. Too slow and ugly.
[15:37:51] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: I've got a U5 somewhere on the bottom of the junkpile.
[15:37:52] <edwardocallaghan> Yes they are retro ;)
[15:38:02] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: I'd rather have an Ultra-2 though.
[15:38:14] <Tempt> I bought that Ultra-5 just to rescue it.
[15:38:24] <edwardocallaghan> Really?
[15:38:29] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[15:38:31] <Tempt> Flea market.
[15:38:37] <Tempt> Wanted to give it a good home.
[15:38:43] <sickness> I've an ultra5 and an ultra10
[15:38:51] <Tempt> Used for a few things and then shelved it.
[15:38:56] <edwardocallaghan> Man, The ACT is empty !
[15:38:57] <Tempt> Resprayed it metallic purple.
[15:39:05] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[15:39:08] <sickness> cute
[15:39:11] <edwardocallaghan> cool though
[15:39:23] <PerterB> the only good home for an ultra5 is the bottom of a big pit
[15:40:01] <edwardocallaghan> Oh well this Java work calls me
[15:40:02] <sickness> lol
[15:40:57] <edwardocallaghan> Tempt:But if you can slap somekind of HOWTO/script/scraps on the site then I can make it all neat later
[15:41:08] <Tempt> No worries.
[15:41:09] <edwardocallaghan> sgd that is
[15:41:13] <edwardocallaghan> cool
[15:41:35] <Tempt> Gekkko[PDA]: So you're stucking using a PDA.
[15:41:45] <edwardocallaghan> I think I will spend this week getting the FAQ part up and running
[15:41:46] <Gekkko[PDA]> yes.
[15:41:46] <Tempt> Gekkko[PDA]: If I were you, I'd buy a disposably cheap laptop and use that.
[15:41:53] <Gekkko[PDA]> really...
[15:42:03] <Gekkko[PDA]> i'm saving for one.
[15:42:03] <Tempt> like get an old P-II or something
[15:42:10] <edwardocallaghan> Openmoko can run X
[15:42:11] <Tempt> Sure you can find one for under $100
[15:42:25] <Gekkko[PDA]> the asus eee wont light my bed on fire
[15:42:51] <Tempt> Yeah, but a trip to smack converters will give you a laptop instantly
[15:43:42] <edwardocallaghan> cat "smack converters" lol >> FAQs
[15:44:37] <edwardocallaghan> ok, i'll shut up with crap jokes and do my Java work
[15:44:40] <Tempt> Somebody else's house burglary is your cheap laptop, apparently. Also your guitar, your synth, stereo, playstation ...
[15:44:54] <edwardocallaghan> talk to you lads laters
[15:44:59] <Tempt> Nighty-night.
[15:45:08] <edwardocallaghan> yea you too
[15:45:10] <Tempt> I've still got a Thinkpad 600E working.
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[15:45:25] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol.
[15:45:32] <Gekkko[PDA]> they aren't silent
[15:45:40] <Gekkko[PDA]> they churn in the wind.
[15:45:44] <Tempt> Pretty close to silent.
[15:45:56] <Tempt> Compared to the Sun Fire V880 in the same room.
[15:46:05] <LeftWing> heh
[15:46:08] <Tempt> Any laptop is quiet next to that beast.
[15:46:13] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol
[15:46:52] <sickness> lol
[15:47:07] <sickness> i've a thinkpad 600 but it died some months ago :/
[15:47:24] <sickness> was really in love with his keyboard... no other laptop matches that, imho
[15:47:27] <Tempt> let me guess...
[15:47:28] <trede> i cant find any time plan for admin tools ?
[15:47:32] <Tempt> screen problem?
[15:47:47] <sickness> now I use a dell latitude400 found cheap at a local computer fair to chat from my bedside table :P
[15:47:55] <LeftWing> I use a Sun Ray.
[15:48:06] <Tempt> SunRay++
[15:48:20] <delewis> Tadpole.
[15:48:21] <sickness> LeftWing: does a thing like a sun ray "laptop" exist?
[15:48:26] * delewis ducks
[15:48:26] <Tempt> Tadpole.
[15:48:30] <Auralis> tadpole has one
[15:48:31] <sickness> uhm
[15:48:40] <sickness> seems a cute idea...
[15:48:41] <Tempt> I've got an RDI SPARCstation 5 laptop here.
[15:48:45] <LeftWing> sickness: Yeah, Tadpole have two and there's some other company that makes the Jasper 320.
[15:48:46] <Tempt> Anyone want it?
[15:48:46] <Auralis> 15" wireless sunray
[15:49:05] <LeftWing> Tempt: Is it heavier than the freight truck that will move it? :P
[15:49:05] <Tempt> Naturetech make the Jasper
[15:49:13] <LeftWing> Tempt: Naturetech, that's the one.
[15:49:14] <Tempt> LeftWing: Haha, about 3 kilos, yes.
[15:49:25] <Tempt> A lot lighter with the NiCads removed
[15:49:30] <sickness> eheh
[15:49:53] <Tempt> Might fix that one up this week and use it as an mp3 player in the loungeroom
[15:50:12] <LeftWing> haha
[15:50:38] <LeftWing> Tempt: Does it have a built-in Tube Amp? :P
[15:51:11] <Tempt> Heh.
[15:51:14] <Tempt> Hmmm.
[15:51:32] <Tempt> I need to try plugging USB audio into a SunRay and see if it works
[15:52:03] <delewis> any news on 08/07?
[15:53:28] <LeftWing> 09/07? ;)
[15:53:37] <Tempt> 12/07
[15:53:40] <Tempt> 6/08...
[15:53:46] * delewis mutters
[15:53:53] <LeftWing> Tempt: It won't work if it depends on isynchronous USB.
[15:54:02] <Tempt> any particular feature you're waiting on?
[15:54:12] <Tempt> LeftWing: isynchronous USB?
[15:54:13] <delewis> I'm in the process of putting an 11/06 system into production.
[15:54:23] <Tempt> LeftWing: Is that like async but an Apple product?
[15:54:32] <delewis> I just hate that 08/07 is on the verge of being released, and I'll probably be doing a Live Upgrade within the next week or less.
[15:54:53] <LeftWing> Tempt: The "in a timely fashion" type of USB, if memory serves -- Sun Ray doesn't support it yet/ever.
[15:54:58] <Tempt> delewis: Apply your 200 patches and you'll be there.
[15:55:01] <Tempt> LeftWing: Aah.
[15:55:24] <Tempt> LeftWing: For some reason my SunRay isn't picking up my USB serial any more. I think something in the last patchset must have mulched it.
[15:55:41] <LeftWing> Tempt: In fact, as I understand it not many USB over IP devices support it. (The isync. stuff)
[15:55:52] <LeftWing> Is utseriald still running?
[15:57:05] <Tempt> hmm
[15:57:06] * Tempt checks
[15:57:19] <Tempt> oddly, two copies of it
[15:57:29] <LeftWing> That could well be normal... :P
[15:57:36] <LeftWing> Is the utserial module loaded and so on?
[15:58:06] <Tempt> 232 7b3e5e58    414 297   1  utserial (Sun Ray I/O Serial Port Driver )
[15:58:09] <Tempt> Yep!
[15:58:19] <LeftWing> Awesome.  Here endeth my experience with the thing. :)
[15:58:42] <Tempt> Well, I'm not running any sessions that matter. I might kick the sunray server in the nuts.
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[15:59:06] <LeftWing> Either utserial or utparallel was panicing SXCR so my Sun Ray server build script removes both of the modules now and jiggers the startup scripts.  =P
[16:01:47] * LeftWing sleeps.
[16:01:49] <Tempt> Ouch.
[16:01:58] <Tempt> restarted;  all good now.
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[16:10:35] <Gekkko[PDA]> oh the uptime
[16:10:40] <Gekkko[PDA]> oh the agonu
[16:10:44] <Gekkko[PDA]> agony*
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[16:13:02] <kohju> can someone use the middle button on thinkpad?
[16:14:39] <kohju> I cannot use the middle button on b69.
[16:19:10] <Tempt> Gekkko[PDA]: restarted srss, not the host.
[16:19:15] <Gekkko[PDA]> oh
[16:19:19] <Gekkko[PDA]> nasty.
[16:19:37] <Tempt> I don't like taking this host down too often.
[16:19:40] <Tempt> Pain in the arse.
[16:19:50] <Tempt> Takes forever to reboot.
[16:20:19] <Gekkko[PDA]> how long?
[16:20:32] <Tempt> Haven't time it.
[16:20:40] <Gekkko[PDA]> roughly
[16:20:53] <Tempt> But it takes ages just to POST. Reboots are fine, but power downs lead to a POST which takes at least 10 minutes
[16:21:17] <Tempt> which, of course, always seems like an hour
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[16:25:30] <Gekkko[PDA]> :o
[16:25:36] <Gekkko[PDA]> thats ages
[16:26:27] <jpdrawneek> Anybody about who is good with scsi?
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[16:28:13] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: What's the hassle?
[16:28:50] <jpdrawneek> just put in a array and card and now i get trip 3e error
[16:29:43] <jpdrawneek> think it could be the card, but i only got limited scsi knowledge
[16:30:02] <jpdrawneek> basicly the box will not boot
[16:31:44] <jpdrawneek> poweron -> mmu error -> boot -> trap 3e -> take disks out -> boots
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[16:37:24] <jpdrawneek> any ideas? - or any ideas on which forums to post?
[16:37:29] <Tempt> That's wierd
[16:37:38] <Tempt> What sort of array/card?
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[16:38:17] <jpdrawneek> lsi 21320-s
[16:38:28] <jpdrawneek> compac 4214r
[16:38:33] <Gekkko[PDA]> sleep, cya
[16:38:42] <Tempt> hmm
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[16:38:55] <Tempt> Don't know the array.
[16:39:11] <jpdrawneek> i think its the card as i swaped the array for s1 and still had the same problem
[16:40:13] <Tempt> Could be it.
[16:40:31] <Tempt> Try booting with the array off, wait until Solaris is up and then turn it on
[16:41:19] <jpdrawneek> http://www.ciao.co.uk/Compaq_StorageWorks_Enclosure_4314R__5465493
[16:41:26] <Tempt> run devfsadm to find it
[16:41:33] <jpdrawneek> k
[16:41:40] <jpdrawneek> back in a bit
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[16:53:06] <jpdrawneek> ok - it boots and finds the disk
[16:53:19] <Tempt> cool.
[16:53:29] <jpdrawneek> had to pull the power plugs out as it would not boot with the s1 in standby
[16:53:36] <Tempt> What sort of host?
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[16:53:51] <jpdrawneek> netra 1405
[16:54:03] <Tempt> You need to disable the fcode on the LSI controller
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[16:54:14] <jpdrawneek> ok - how?
[16:54:15] <Tempt> Of course, upgrade the firmware first.
[16:54:24] <Tempt> I'm not sure, you'll have to check your card documentation
[16:54:39] <jpdrawneek> there was no docs with it :)
[16:54:43] <Tempt> And make sure you're running a current OBP
[16:54:54] <jpdrawneek> done that
[16:55:22] <Tempt> Using the itmpt driver?
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[16:55:46] <jpdrawneek> no - i think its what ever sun has built in
[16:55:51] <Tempt> Aah
[16:56:25] <Tempt> If you were using itmpt I'd say use lsiutil to twiddle the settings.
[16:56:38] <jpdrawneek> i have got a lsiu320 in it already and that uses the cool lsi tools - teh 21320-s idi not show up
[16:57:16] <jpdrawneek> lsiutil can't see the 21230-s
[16:57:34] <Tempt> You might need to disable the other drive from attaching.
[16:57:51] <Tempt> I'm going to bed soon otherwise I'd work with you on this one; I'm sure someone else will step in.
[16:57:52] <jpdrawneek> ?
[16:58:01] <jpdrawneek> k
[16:58:12] <jpdrawneek> driver?
[17:00:15] <Tempt> driver, yes.
[17:00:21] <Tempt> anyway, goodnight all.
[17:00:38] <jpdrawneek> ta
[17:00:41] <jpdrawneek> night
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[17:37:44] <millhouse513> has anyone done an iscsi setup?
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[19:04:10] <Giaco> hi
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[19:21:00] <g4lt-mordant> okay, what am I doing wrong this timee?  zpool create mounts; zfs create -V 10g -o mountpoint=/opt mounts/opt fails
[19:21:34] <g4lt-mordant> [there's an irrelevant vdev on the zpool create]
[19:21:49] <g4lt-mordant> okay, so a zvol isn't mountable?
[19:22:05] <jbk> not unless you mkfs is and manually mount it
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[19:22:21] <jbk> if you want a regular old zfs filesystem
[19:22:23] <jbk> remove -V
[19:22:35] <g4lt-mordant> ...which blows away th whole point of using zfs
[19:22:46] <jbk> how do you figure?
[19:23:05] <g4lt-mordant> okay, wilco, is there another wy I can specify that /opt gets 10G and /eexport/home gets the rest of the pool?
[19:23:15] <g4lt-mordant> doing mkfs on a zvol
[19:23:21] <jpdrawneek> you don't use -V
[19:23:27] <jbk> zfs create -o mountpoint=/opt -o quota=10G monts/opt
[19:23:53] <jbk> or i guess zfs create -o mountpoint=/opt,quota=10G mounts/opt
[19:24:16] <jpdrawneek> reservation=10G as well?
[19:24:25] <jbk> well it depends what is desired
[19:24:34] <g4lt-mordant> reservation!  that sounds like the trick
[19:24:34] <jpdrawneek> from the sounds it is
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[19:24:58] <jbk> if you're more concerned about keeping something from getting too big or if you really want to dedicated a specific amount of space
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[19:25:47] <jbk> in my experience at least, fs sizing was more about trying to cap growth than anything else
[19:26:26] <jpdrawneek> from the sounds he want opt to be 10g and not for any other to use up that space
[19:26:35] <jbk> g4lt-mordant: zvols are more when you want a /dev type device stored in a zpool for other stuff
[19:26:37] <jpdrawneek> which is why he was using the -V in the first place
[19:26:46] <g4lt-mordant> wait, zfs allocates on the fly, no?  that might be a cool idea, let /opt  hav a minimum of like 2G, and quota it at 10, that mans that I can borrow space in /home from it if necessary
[19:26:54] <jbk> yes and no
[19:26:57] <jbk> it's pooled storage
[19:27:15] <jbk> so all filesystems in a pool can use any of the free blocks in the pool
[19:27:35] <g4lt-mordant> ...except when reservation overrides this, no?
[19:27:41] <jbk> quotas and reservations just limit the number that can be used
[19:27:44] <jpdrawneek> ya
[19:28:00] <jpdrawneek> you reserve space for the zfs
[19:29:01] <g4lt-mordant> cool, thanks.  RTFM only applies when you know what you're reading ;P
[19:29:04] <jpdrawneek> 100g pool - reserve 10g for 4 zfs - 60g for them all to fight over
[19:29:11] <jbk> yes, but just to clarify (since it is a bit of a different mindset than traditional volume managers) that just means 'keep X amount of space anywhere in the pool for fs'
[19:29:28] <jbk> it doesn't imply specific locations on particular disks
[19:30:21] <jbk> so any ELF gurus around? :)
[19:32:29] <g4lt-mordant> pity that I don't trust /usr to the concept yet, /opt and /usr in the same pool would be about right
[19:32:45] <jbk> why don't you trust it?
[19:33:37] <g4lt-mordant> too new
[19:33:52] <jbk> so you trust ufs?
[19:34:02] <jbk> what about vxfs?
[19:34:37] <g4lt-mordant> I HAVE to trust ufs, and I don't trust vxfs because I'm a cheap bastard
[19:34:46] <jbk> ignore money
[19:35:07] <g4lt-mordant> [vxfs means a Veritas license, which I can't afford]
[19:35:41] <g4lt-mordant> and TBH, I don't think /, /var, or /usr is the place to experiment
[19:36:02] <jbk> i actually have a lot more confidence in zfs
[19:36:08] <jbk> yes there are still some bugs being worked out
[19:36:10] <jbk> but
[19:36:13] <Giaco> could someone help me with sun cluster install ?
[19:36:15] <jbk> the code is actually simpler
[19:36:20] <jbk> far less cruft
[19:36:56] <jbk> is actually tested for failure extensively
[19:37:33] <jbk> and the checksumming of data also means if something fouls up, you're more likely to be able to catch it and act on it
[19:37:47] <g4lt-mordant> jbk I do to, sort of, but my iron rule is "no [relatively] new FSes on system-critical mountpoints until I've used them for non-critical mountpoints for at last six months"
[19:38:23] <jbk> it'd probably be too cumbersome, but it'd be interesting to see how ufs and vxfs fared against something similar to ztest
[19:38:30] <jpdrawneek> the whole wailt for service pack 1 job :)
[19:38:32] <jbk> i'm guessing they wouldn't do too hot :)
[19:38:37] <jbk> i mean
[19:38:49] <jbk> in vxfs 4.0 or 4.1
[19:38:56] <estibi> hi
[19:39:00] <jbk> they had a bug that if you filled your fs up to 100%
[19:39:27] <g4lt-mordant> jpdrawneek, sort of, but it's MY testing that I trust, not necessarily others
[19:39:27] <jbk> under the right circumstances (which i don't believe involved reboots or otherwise forcibly putting it into an unclean state)
[19:39:43] <jbk> if would corrupt the fs to the point you had no choice but to restore
[19:40:28] <g4lt-mordant> and th other thing is th fact that the installer still doesn't play nice with making zfs vice ufs
[19:41:12] <jbk> that's coming
[19:41:23] <jbk> and if you don't mind a little manual work
[19:41:30] <jbk> you can do it
[19:41:37] <jbk> i.e. instead of a nice gui, you exit
[19:41:50] <jbk> create a small text file listing the install cluster + pool info
[19:41:56] <jbk> the run pfinstall text_file
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[19:44:37] <g4lt-mordant> well, either way, I soon will be able to apply POLA on my laptop and chat from it :)
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[20:03:43] <ofu> does anybody know if there are performance issues in nfs between nv70 (nfs-client) and freebsd-6.2 (nfsd)? I can read 1.2mbyte and write 50mbyte/sec
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[21:05:43] <sstallion> any ldap gurus about?
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[21:08:25] <nachox> interesting, google is offering staroffice 8 for free as part of google packs
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[21:13:24] <sstallion> i saw that
[21:13:42] <sstallion> heh, now the /. kids are speculating on novel vs. sun
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[21:17:02] <nachox> i cannot understand who lets that journalist keep writting
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[21:24:43] <Shinden> is aviable on solaris smth like linux logo ?
[21:24:53] <Shinden> http://www.debianusers.pl/articles/resources/linuxlogo/linuxlogo.png
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[21:26:07] <mavo> hi
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[21:40:01] <tomww> so ein mist:
[21:40:02] <tomww> 1 e renamenew etc/icecast.xml 0755 root sys 6812 12763 1186969121
[21:40:03] <tomww> 1 i i.renamenew 48 4077 1186969122
[21:40:31] <tomww> complained: ERROR: attribute verification of </etc/icecast.xml> failed pathname does not exist
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[21:53:07] <tomww> sorry, wrong channel :-)
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[22:02:03] <richlowe> what's with the mail spew?
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[22:06:24] <WickedWicky> meep
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[22:12:35] <jbk> well
[22:13:13] <jbk> with a few minor fixups, disassembling /platform/sun4u/sparcv9/unix works
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[22:18:32] <quasi> 'From that point, all you need is a $4 billion 65 nanometre fab and you can make your own Niagara 2s saving yourself thousands of dollars.'
[22:19:20] <WickedWicky> haha
[22:19:34] * WickedWicky donates 25 euro cents
[22:19:47] <quasi> (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=41642)
[22:20:42] <jbk> you could always do what sun does
[22:20:52] <jbk> and have someone else make them for you :)
[22:31:54] <delewis> anyone know of a way to flush the NFS buffer cache?
[22:32:22] <delewis> I'm doing some read benchmarks and it'd be nice to have the cache flushed for each benchmark.
[22:32:47] <Tpenta> umount/mount the fs
[22:33:11] <delewis> Tpenta: thanks. sync(1) won't flush the read cache will it?
[22:33:41] <oxygene> sync shouldn't have any effect on any read cache
[22:33:58] <Tpenta> that's what we do when we benchmark
[22:33:59] <delewis> that's what I thought.
[22:34:03] <Tpenta> ie umount/mount
[22:34:22] <Tpenta> on some we go so far as to reboot between benchmarks
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[22:46:57] <richlowe> Hey Tpenta.
[22:47:07] <Tpenta> hey rich
[22:47:13] <Tpenta> delewis: no, only dirty pages
[22:49:07] <seanmcg> Tpenta: on some we both reboot and newf/zfs-destry-create between benchmarks :)
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[23:09:14] <seanmcg> ping Tpenta
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[23:19:42] <Tpenta> sorry sean, gotta run
[23:20:09] <jmcp> Tpenta: into the office today?
[23:20:22] <seanmcg> no probs..
[23:22:07] <seanmcg> jmcp: ping ?-)
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[23:22:21] <jmcp> seanmcg: gday
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[23:32:01] <Gman> hey hey
[23:32:16] <jmcp> hi Gman
[23:32:23] <jmcp> Gman: welcome home
[23:32:48] <Gman> been home for a wee while, but more or less the first day back in the office
[23:32:54] <Gman> but thanks
[23:40:35] <coffman> so
[23:40:42] <coffman> where is b70?
[23:41:03] <jmcp> coffman: not here yet
[23:41:09] <coffman> is b70 the new b64?
[23:41:31] <coffman> jmcp: i figured
[23:41:38] <nachox> Gman, holidays?
[23:41:57] <jmcp> coffman: I expect 70 to be the next SXDE release
[23:42:02] <Gman> nachox, had a few days in the south island, but mostly work travel
[23:42:21] <coffman> is
[23:42:21] <nachox> gnome or indiana related?
[23:42:21] <Gman> mmm, interesting - sco lost the court case
[23:42:34] <Gman> nachox, gnome for the first week, indiana for the other 3
[23:42:47] <seanmcg> Gman: and your bro goes on hols too, just when I need to pick his zfs-brain :)
[23:42:58] <Gman> we're slackers :)
[23:43:05] <jmcp> coffman: I phrased things carefully - because until it's actually released, pretty much nobody except the R.E. staff knows for sure
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[23:44:45] <nachox> jmcp, there is a changelog for build 70 available?
[23:44:58] <jmcp> dunno
[23:45:01] <jmcp> have you checked dlc.sun.com?
[23:46:06] <nachox> i am doing that just now
[23:51:10] <nachox> shouldnt http://dlc.sun.com/osol/ not show index info?
[23:53:19] <coffman> nachox: http://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/b70/
[23:53:33] <nachox> found it, reading it already :)
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