[00:00:02] <jmcp_> so wtf is FHS2.3 ?
[00:00:03] <networkdump> but right now, I would like to figure out how the build process define those path
[00:00:11] <networkdump> http://www.pathname.com/fhs/
[00:00:38] <jmcp_> networkdump: start with usr/src/Makefile* and work your way down
[00:01:31] <networkdump> well, according to a find + grep, there is 738 Makefiles that contains '^ROOT.*'
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[00:02:20] <jmcp_> networkdump: you were expecting to understand a complex make system in 30 seconds?
[00:02:24] <networkdump> no
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[00:02:57] <jmcp_> phew
[00:03:12] <jmcp_> that's good. It's bloody complex, even for those who know it well. I'm not somebody who knows it well, either
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[00:03:21] * jmcp_ tries to head off "how does it work" questions....
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[00:03:25] <networkdump> but richlowe confirmed that most files are installed in directory according to ROOT* variables
[00:03:33] <LeftWing> jmcp: Very well, thank you? ;P
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[00:04:16] <networkdump> the other concern I have is, if I modify one ROOTETC to /var/etc for example
[00:04:30] <LeftWing> ... /var/etc?
[00:04:31] <jmcp_> networkdump: there are two aspects - when you build ON, and run "make install" all the output gets put into the proto area of your workspace
[00:04:34] <coffman> with FSS, how would i set the shares for the global zone?
[00:05:00] <jmcp_> networkdump: when you install Solaris, where files/dirs go depends on the pkgdef information in usr/src/pkgdefs
[00:05:14] <networkdump> ok
[00:05:17] <jmcp_> networkdump: so .... what do you want to really investigate?
[00:06:01] <networkdump> my question is , if I modify a ROOT variable and the pkgdef
[00:06:21] <jmcp_> sorry, I still don't understand why you want to modify the ROOT variable in a makefile
[00:06:40] <networkdump> does it affect the source file in question
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[00:07:20] <networkdump> glibc is trying to read exactly /etc/hosts, is this path hardcoded somewhere or it is modified dynamicaly by Makefile variables
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[00:07:40] <networkdump> this is a concrete example, I'm having hard time to translate it in english.
[00:07:46] <jmcp_> glibc? just plain libc on solaris, I think you'll find. I also think that it's going to be hard-coded
[00:08:23] <networkdump> ok thank you, that's what I wanted to know
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[00:08:41] <networkdump> so path in source code are independant of makefiles ROOT definitions
[00:08:50] <jmcp_> networkdump: http://src.opensolaris.org/source/search?q=%2Fetc%2Fhosts&defs=&refs=&path=&hist=&project=%2Fonnv
[00:08:51] <jmcp_> yes
[00:08:55] <jmcp_> or at least, they should be
[00:08:58] <jmcp_> imnsho
[00:10:46] <networkdump> and like you explained, is doesn't matter where the makefile copy it because pkgdef will overwrite it
[00:10:54] <jmcp_> correct
[00:11:00] <richlowe> Not quite correct.
[00:11:05] <richlowe> it doesn't matter where $ROOT points to.
[00:11:10] <jmcp_> pkgdef doesn't care, really
[00:11:12] <richlowe> but the path within $ROOT must match the prototypes.
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[00:11:44] <jmcp_> when you run a full nightly build, you get a proto area with the build system, and packages which are built from the contents of the proto area
[00:12:01] <jmcp_> eg, I'll have /path/to/workspace/proto/root_i386/lib/mpxio/stmsboot_util
[00:12:18] <jmcp_> and when I run a "make pkg" for SUNWcslr, I'll see "lib/mpxio/stmsboot
[00:12:23] <jmcp_> and when I run a "make pkg" for SUNWcslr, I'll see "lib/mpxio/stmsboot_util" in the package
[00:12:30] <networkdump> ok
[00:12:35] <richlowe> and patch it against the roots specified on the pkgmk command line.
[00:12:38] <richlowe> uh, 'match', rather.
[00:13:12] <coffman> ah nice, i can use zonecfg on global
[00:13:53] <networkdump> now, a more concrete example. If I would like to move /abc/file to /xyz/file. That means I would have to modify pkgdef, the makefile in question (optional) and all files that points to /abc/file?
[00:13:55] <jmcp_> in the usr/src/pkgdefs files you'll find info including the BASEDIR variable, which I think is what you were thinking would get changed
[00:14:05] <jmcp_> quite possibly
[00:14:45] <richlowe> the prototype, the Makefile, anything referencing that file.
[00:14:53] <networkdump> there is no easy way 'a la' ./configure --libdir=/.. --bindir=/...
[00:14:56] <richlowe> the latter may not be so easy to find.
[00:15:23] <richlowe> No, components of the system are not intended to be relocatable on that level, there's no automated way to do it.
[00:17:12] <networkdump> thank you
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[00:20:54] <jmcp_> networkdump: just so you know, don't mention configure scripts or gnu auto* stuff when wesolows is around ... or a whole heap of other people
[00:21:46] <networkdump> well, maybe they hate it, but it helped most linux distribution out there to easily grow
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[00:23:17] <jmcp_> true, but it's not a good piece of software
[00:23:25] * jmcp_ shrugs
[00:23:30] <jmcp_> just thought you should be warned :)
[00:23:34] <TomJ> What's the OpenSolaris alternative?
[00:24:04] <TomJ> if there is one
[00:24:09] <networkdump> makefiles :)
[00:24:11] <jmcp_> TomJ: to running ./configure /opensolaris/kernel ? use the system that's there already, and learn how we do things
[00:25:22] <axisys> anyone here uses 10 G card?
[00:25:50] <axisys> i am getting this error http://rafb.net/p/zyn79815.html
[00:25:53] <axisys> no link light either
[00:26:26] <axisys> runnng sol 10 u3 on t2k
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[00:27:41] <jmcp_> axisys: are you sure you've got the correct cable, that the port you're plugged into is auto-negotiating, and that it's a 10gig port?
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[00:33:05] <wraith> is there a version of quake(3 or 4) for solaris?
[00:33:06] <axisys> jmcp_: i am using the yellow fiber the small form factor that fits perfect and the t2k sees the card
[00:33:31] <axisys> the cisco side is not a 10gig port
[00:33:35] <richlowe> seeing the card, and seeing a link are different.
[00:33:48] <axisys> richlowe: yep.. agreed
[00:34:19] <axisys> i uncommented the line in nxge.conf to auto negotiate and rebooted
[00:34:44] <axisys> connected to a cisco 6500 switch
[00:35:03] <axisys> do I have to have 10g port on cisco side?
[00:35:26] <axisys> i am assuming it will allow 1g port
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[00:37:47] <axisys> i do have access to the switch
[00:37:57] <axisys> let me see the log there
[00:37:58] <jmcp_> is it on?
[00:37:59] <jmcp_>  :-)
[00:38:05] <axisys> hehe
[00:38:23] <jmcp_> always a good question to ask
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[01:01:24] <echaz> hi, I am a software developer who works mainly on solaris, with a solaris fileserver at home, and I have a bunch of questions about opensolaris.... is there anyone available who can help me?
[01:01:36] <jmcp_> yeah, go ahead
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[01:01:42] <jmcp_> I work on SAS, and I used to work on FC
[01:02:25] <echaz> I work for a defense contractor who has a large number of solaris machines used for development and integration
[01:02:48] <echaz> The website is a bit confusing to me.  What is the difference between solaris 10 and opensolaris?
[01:03:27] <moazamraja> opensolaris is the open source version, the 'umbrella' for source code that is in Solaris 10 (and upcoming 11)
[01:03:29] <jmcp_> Solaris 10 is a released product, for which you can purchase a support contract
[01:03:50] <richlowe> And opensolaris is *not* the source for 10
[01:03:51] <echaz> so it is like the difference between fedora and RHEL?
[01:03:52] <jmcp_> echaz: I'll find the url for you
[01:04:01] <richlowe> though much of the source is substantially similar between 10 and Nevada, it is not the same.
[01:04:04] <richlowe> and there is no open access to the 10 gates.
[01:04:22] <richlowe> and while webmink disagrees with me on the semantics thereof, he's Wrong<TM> ;)
[01:05:01] <TomJ> What are people generally using OpenSolaris for currently?  Is it still for development and testing,  or is it used in production anywhere?
[01:05:13] <moazamraja> some companies use it for production (joyent)
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[01:05:32] <moazamraja> others use it to test out features from opensolaris which will then be released into the next Update release of Solaris 10
[01:06:28] <TomJ> Ok, thanks.
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[01:07:19] <jmcp_> echaz: http://whacked.net/2007/03/01/opensolarissolaris-relationships-updated/, and http://whacked.net/what_is_opensolaris and http://whacked.net/2005/06/21/confused-so-was-i
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[01:08:26] <echaz> ok cool.  thanks....
[01:10:28] <coffman> TomJ: well, no one want to use debian stable as desktop, so no one want to use solaris 10 as desktop ( i know not true bla bla)
[01:10:35] <TomJ> Is there a list anywhere of what's available in OS that isn't in Solaris?  I've been trying to find it on the site without success.  I looked at the roadmap but it seemed to just contain lists of documentation updates and details of tools. I'm probably missing something obvious in there
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[01:12:17] <richlowe> Not that I know of.
[01:12:45] <echaz> I am looking at opensolaris because I am interested in a solaris machine (for raidz) with live updates on my file server.
[01:13:06] <echaz> I looked into paying for support, but it is REALLY expensive for a casual user.
[01:13:17] <TomJ> ok thanks richlowe.
[01:13:42] <echaz> should I wait for Nextenta to become stable?  What do you guys recommend?
[01:13:43] <jmcp_> liveupdate will take you from s8 to NV (aka Solaris Express or ....) with ease
[01:14:02] <jmcp_> echaz: what price did you find for support?
[01:14:13] <echaz> it was like $200+
[01:14:17] <echaz> per year
[01:14:27] <jpdrawnee1> uni socket price has gone i think
[01:14:33] <jmcp_> echaz: and did you get a price for per-socket per-year for RHEL?
[01:14:40] <jpdrawnee1> thats why its expencive
[01:14:50] <richlowe> jmcp_: does that still work?
[01:14:51] <jmcp_> it's still a darned good price though
[01:14:55] <echaz> well, I am not a corporation.
[01:14:56] <jmcp_> richlowe: what?
[01:14:59] <richlowe> jmcp_: lu from 8
[01:15:08] <richlowe> jmcp_: last I knew, lu was only mandated to support N-2 upgrade.
[01:15:11] <TomJ> eschaz if you're an indvidiual I think you can just use Sol 10 for free, without support
[01:15:12] <echaz> do linux people just re-install all the time?
[01:15:19] <jmcp_> richlowe: damn ... too early for simple addition
[01:15:21] <richlowe> jmcp_: just randomly interested in whether it does.
[01:15:30] <jmcp_> echaz: dunno, haven't been a "linux person" for 10+ years
[01:15:31] <jpdrawnee1> echaz: yes
[01:15:34] <echaz> lol
[01:15:39] <echaz> dude, that sucks
[01:15:46] <jmcp_> richlowe: it might well work, but yeah, you're right it should be 8-10, or 9-nv
[01:15:51] <jmcp_> yeah
[01:15:55] <echaz> no wonder linux can't get the casual user
[01:16:02] <jpdrawnee1> echaz: got an install down to 15 mins and blind folded
[01:16:17] <echaz> how do you keep all of your settings?
[01:16:22] <jmcp_> echaz: there are plenty of casual users of linux ... and it seems like a lot of them think they're authorities on why Sun does what it does
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[01:16:30] * jmcp_ grumbles
[01:16:33] <TomJ> in fact, if I'm reading this right, I think anyone can use sol 10 for free without support
[01:16:50] <jpdrawnee1> echaz: setting like pwd, dhcp and were done
[01:16:58] <TomJ> all you have to do is register and get an 'entitlement document'
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[01:17:23] <jmcp_> TomJ: correct
[01:17:33] <jmcp_> pretty much
[01:18:02] <jmcp_> heck, you can get Solaris Cluster for free and use it too - it's only when you want support that you have to pay for it
[01:18:03] <richlowe> jmcp_: given the number of people still on 8, I wondered if the rules had changed.
[01:18:08] <jmcp_> richlowe: no idea
[01:18:12] <richlowe> jmcp_: though how those rules sit with Caiman (when it completes), I dunno.
[01:18:13] <echaz> yeah, but I want live updates, so I don't have to do system maintenence all the time...  I don't want to have to fix my host table and drivers everytime I need an update
[01:18:18] <TomJ> ok, cool. so echaz, just download it and play around.  no need to pay anything.
[01:18:22] <richlowe> jmcp_: sounds like a interesting req, either way.
[01:18:23] <flyingparchment> jmcp: any clue when i can use QFS for free? :)
[01:18:24] <TomJ> echaz: you get security updates without a support contract
[01:18:28] * jmcp_ wonders when the news about EOL of s8 nearly 12 months ago will get through to people
[01:18:41] <jmcp_> echaz: yeah, that's bogosity
[01:18:48] <echaz> bogosity?
[01:18:49] <TomJ> if you install sol 10 11/06 for the first time, then go to updates, there's like 130 to be installed
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[01:18:54] <jpdrawnee1> echaz: thats why i stick to driver which are in teh kernel
[01:18:57] <TomJ> with hundreds of fixes
[01:19:07] <TomJ> so, dont worry about support.
[01:19:07] <jmcp_> echaz: having to fix /etc/hosts and drivers for each update
[01:19:13] <jpdrawnee1> but the updatemanager is pretty :)
[01:19:32] <jmcp_> I don't use updatemanager
[01:19:37] <jmcp_> I keep my pedal to the metal and use LU
[01:19:39] <flyingparchment> you can driver and security updates, and all updates they depend on
[01:19:49] <flyingparchment> most importantly, that includes the kernel update patch, which depends on a load of other shit
[01:19:49] <echaz> What is LU?
[01:19:56] <jmcp_> LiveUpgrade
[01:19:59] <jpdrawnee1> how do you download 100+ patches easily?
[01:20:06] <flyingparchment> jpdrawnee1: pca
[01:20:07] <jmcp_> jpdrawnee1: I don't patch, I use LU
[01:20:07] <TomJ> jpdrawnee1: I use smpatch
[01:20:08] <echaz> do you have a link for LiveUpgrade?
[01:20:11] <TomJ> but I was told that's not the best way
[01:20:14] <TomJ> it did work fine though
[01:20:15] <jmcp_> echaz: it's included in base Solaris
[01:20:19] <jmcp_> I'll find the docs for you
[01:20:36] <jmcp_> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-2395?q=live+upgrade
[01:20:46] <jpdrawnee1> i keep finding bugs that will not last till an LU
[01:21:01] <jpdrawnee1> i patch alot, well did
[01:21:11] <flyingparchment> so this weekend i finally got the ok to buy some support, but i couldn't because sun's website wanted to charge me 40% more if i paid in EUR.  and i couldn't phone them because they're closed.  so much for a global internet company ;-)
[01:21:33] <TomJ> any of you guys using the latest developer build in VMWare?  I have sol-nv-b69-x86.  it installed fine, but then wont boot.  I get grub, then just a blank screen.
[01:21:40] <jpdrawnee1> thats the big sucky part of sun - trying to buy anything off them
[01:21:48] <jmcp_> I dno't use vmware
[01:21:58] <jmcp_> don't, even
[01:22:11] <jmcp_> TomJ: do you get the grub menu at all?
[01:22:13] <TomJ> ok. it's the only OS build I've tried, so maybe there's something odd with the latest. I'll try the other build type, the one that's released every 3 months (sorry forget the name)
[01:22:20] <jpdrawnee1> how do you download 100+ patches in smpatch easily?
[01:22:27] <flyingparchment> jpdrawnee1: "smpatch download"
[01:22:30] <TomJ> jmcp:  Yup,  I got grub, I select the Sol option, then it's blank screen
[01:22:36] <flyingparchment> TomJ: use SXCE, it's what normal people use
[01:22:37] <echaz> lol, my company gets a huge discount from them.
[01:22:38] <jmcp_> TomJ: SXDE Solaris Express Developer Edution
[01:22:41] <jmcp_> Edition
[01:22:51] * jmcp_ kicks mod_speeling
[01:23:02] <TomJ> yeah I'll try that instead. I just always have the urge to get the latest :)
[01:23:03] <jpdrawnee1> flyingparchment: ta, think i tried that
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[01:23:24] <flyingparchment> jpdrawnee1: usually you want "update", which also applies them.  (then again, maybe you don't, unless you're feeling lucky)
[01:23:24] <jmcp_> TomJ: hit "e" to edit the default option, then on the kernel$ line, add "-kv", then hit "enter" and "b"
[01:23:36] <echaz> when we wanted to port our application to x86, sun came to us to help us with the problem.
[01:23:39] <TomJ> ooh ok, one sec
[01:23:48] <jmcp_> echaz: which app is that?
[01:24:07] <jpdrawnee1> flyingparchment: only way that i could get working was with -i flag but that was long time ago
[01:24:33] <echaz> it was a piece of test equipment that was developed in-house.  It doesn't get distributed anywhere.
[01:24:42] <jpdrawnee1> whats pca like these days?  it packed up on me a while back so stopped using it
[01:24:49] <TomJ> jmcp:  exactly the same, as soon as Grub disappears I'm left at a blank screen with a single _ cursor visible.  no disk activity, oh and CPU is 100%
[01:25:11] <TomJ> I'll try the SXCE
[01:25:22] <echaz> Tom, how do you know cpu is at 100% if you aren't completely booted?
[01:25:27] <TomJ> echaz: I'm doing this in VMWare
[01:25:34] <TomJ> I can see that virtual machine using 100% of one core
[01:25:48] <flyingparchment> it's normal for vmware to use 100% cpu before the OS is running
[01:25:56] <jmcp_> TomJ: bummer.
[01:26:04] <TomJ> flyingparchment: it hangs there indefinitely, I've tried leaving it for 5 minutes
[01:26:09] <TomJ> Sol 10 boots in about 20 seconds
[01:26:10] <jpdrawnee1> TomJ: SXCE should work - i got b6X in vmware i think
[01:26:13] <flyingparchment> yeah.  i'm just saying, that probably isn't related
[01:26:16] <TomJ> ok
[01:26:17] <echaz> Tom, I had that same problem this morning.....
[01:27:01] <TomJ> echaz: in vmware, or on hardware?
[01:27:06] <echaz> in my case, it ended up being a hardware problem (I think).  I changed some bios settings, and played with my hardware connections, and it went away
[01:27:10] <echaz> it was in hardware
[01:27:13] <TomJ> ok
[01:27:29] <TomJ> ah, the failsafe is booting
[01:27:55] <TomJ> that gets me to a # at least.  I notice the failsafe seems to be a 32bit kernel, maybe it's 64bit that's borked
[01:28:03] <echaz> failsafe booting didn't even work with me..... I could barely get to bios
[01:28:34] <jmcp_> TomJ: the failsafe (and during installation) are always 32bit on x86/x64 hardware
[01:29:21] <TomJ> right ok
[01:30:32] <TomJ> so the general procedure is to get the SXCE build, then cvs the latest source code and build from that?
[01:30:33] <coffman> i think there are vmware images for sxde
[01:30:43] <coffman> so no need to install it with them
[01:31:05] <TomJ> or is the SXCE build usually left as is,  and people use SXDE for cvs&build ?
[01:32:57] <coffman> no one uses sxde :P
[01:33:06] <coffman> TomJ: and what source you want to build?
[01:33:20] <TomJ> hang on wait, I WAS using SXCE
[01:33:23] <jmcp_> mercurial, not cvs
[01:33:25] <coffman> sxce is coming every 2 weeks (mostly)
[01:33:25] <richlowe> other way around.
[01:33:26] * jmcp_ pedants
[01:33:31] <TomJ> solaris express community edition
[01:33:38] <richlowe> the "Developer" in "Developer Edition" is apparently a group of people other than us.
[01:33:46] <echaz> lol
[01:33:52] <TomJ> so I actually want SXDE not SXCE?
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[01:33:59] <TomJ> well, I have to use that, cos SXCE wont work.
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[01:34:01] <TomJ> I'll try D
[01:34:08] * TomJ confused
[01:34:15] <coffman> TomJ: you want to have sxce (normaly)
[01:34:33] <coffman> but there are sxde vmware images...
[01:34:35] <echaz> what is the expected release date of nevada?
[01:34:59] <TomJ> coffman: yeah I might try those.  just in general, I like installing and configuring everything myself
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[01:36:13] <axisys> jmcp_: when I tried up/down I see this http://rafb.net/p/LQzQu418.html
[01:36:28] <axisys> checked the cisco side.. no log shows there
[01:36:44] <axisys> show logging buffer on cisco side does not show any change
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[01:39:07] <TomJ> so if the cisco isn't even noticing the up/down, sounds like a hardware problem on the card, or a bad cable?
[01:39:26] <TomJ> (I am assuming that the log on the cisco is expected to log something when the card connects)
[01:40:01] <TomJ> have you tried a complete powerdown of the server,  then power up while watching the cisco log?  i.e. see if the cisco ever logs anything related to this port/card ?
[01:41:41] <TomJ> also, what's the history? has the card worked before in other servers?  in this server, in other OS'?  Is this the first time you ever tried it? etc..
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[01:42:11] <axisys> TomJ: i tried to reboot from sp, no log shows up.
[01:42:17] <axisys> its a brand new card
[01:42:43] <TomJ> the cisco is max 1G yeah? have yo uconfirmed that the card can do 1g as well as 10g?
[01:42:48] <axisys> TomJ: i am expecting something on cisco 6500 when doing power up/down
[01:43:06] <axisys> TomJ: no I have not
[01:43:11] <TomJ> to me it sounds like bad card or bad cable, but I'm not familiar with 10G specifically
[01:43:14] <axisys> let me revist the nxge.conf
[01:43:26] <TomJ> I would check that before anything else..  maybe this is not a 10G/1G card but only 10G
[01:43:29] <jmcp_> axisys: sorry, I've got nfi about that
[01:43:51] <TomJ> what's the make/model of card?
[01:44:10] <flyingparchment> you're using a 10G card at 1G?  you must be rich :)
[01:44:28] <richlowe> tomJ: nxge is the neptune 10GE
[01:45:05] <echaz> flying: it can't be a home machine.  It has to be some kind of work machine...
[01:45:23] <echaz> no one needs 10g for regular stuff yet
[01:45:24] <lloy0076> Is Brandz dead?
[01:45:28] <axisys> flyingparchment: i asked my boss and he purchased it :P
[01:45:39] <jmcp_> lloy0076: not that I'm aware
[01:45:40] <richlowe> lloy0076: eh?
[01:45:45] <axisys> echaz: ;-)
[01:46:55] <TomJ> nxge is always the 10gb card?
[01:46:55] <lloy0076> *hmmm*
[01:46:59] <TomJ> or can nxge = other cards?
[01:47:21] <axisys> TomJ: not sure.. i plugged the card and ran ifconfig -a plumb
[01:47:30] <lloy0076> It would be nice if it supported 64 bit linux applications on 2.6.X....
[01:47:35] <axisys> and it found the two interfaces  as nxge0 and nxge1
[01:47:57] <TomJ> http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do;jsessionid=75efa051e1dd9d8014ed39f488a6f?bug_id=6577718
[01:47:58] <echaz> axi, is that card supported in solaris yet?
[01:48:09] <TomJ> check that out.. indicates some kind of auto-neg problem
[01:48:22] <axisys> echaz: yes... there is a driver in pkg format
[01:48:25] <TomJ> so that might be relevant. check what auto-neg settings uou have on the Cisco, and maybe turn auto-neg off on the cisco and set it to 1G hard
[01:48:39] <echaz> wow...
[01:48:54] <axisys> echaz: also for windows and linux i think
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[01:49:03] <Doc> auto-neg is good, m'kay?
[01:49:11] <Doc> turning off auto-neg on gige is bad, m'kay?
[01:49:14] <echaz> axi, how much was the card? $1500?
[01:49:23] <flyingparchment> echaz: it would be a bit weird for sun to release a 10G ethernet card and not support it in solaris..
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[01:49:32] <flyingparchment> (then again, knowing sun, maybe not so weird.)
[01:49:48] <TomJ> Doc: not if there's a bug with auto-neg that causes no speed to be chosen at all
[01:50:04] <TomJ> anyway I dont know if that's the problem, but that appears to be a current bug (last reported 25th July) so it's a strong suspect
[01:50:06] <axisys> echaz: let me find the price .. one sec
[01:51:31] <echaz> we were looking at 10g for some really high end stuff like a year ago, but at the time, the cards were only theoretical :)
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[01:51:44] <axisys> echaz: it is here.. http://www.sun.com/products/networking/ethernet/10gigethernet/get_it.jsp
[01:51:56] <axisys> echaz: but buy online is failing to redirect..
[01:52:31] <axisys> basically per card is 2 X price of one port + 2 X price of a transiever
[01:52:41] <axisys> i think it was 2k+
[01:52:46] <axisys> total for one card
[01:52:57] <Tempt> bargain
[01:53:01] <echaz> That's hysterical.... the i/f is really only 5 gig...
[01:53:57] <axisys> we are going to use it for sunray
[01:53:58] <echaz> 2k is nothing...... that is fantastic
[01:54:07] <axisys> we have sunray on every floors
[01:54:14] <flyingparchment> you buy 10G because you need >1G, you don't always need 10G
[01:54:17] <echaz> we pay $5000 for a 2mbps board
[01:54:35] <echaz> 2.5gig
[01:55:02] <Tempt> Or you buy 10G because you want to say you've got 10G.
[01:55:14] <Tempt> Whoops, thinking like a manager there for a second. I'll go wash my brain.
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[01:56:07] <axisys> sorry the driver is only for linux and solaris
[01:56:10] <axisys> no windows
[01:56:24] <axisys> not that I care fo windows :P
[01:56:46] <TomJ> axisys: I think that must be the problem, because the bug relates to the inability of the nxge driver to change *down* speed, which is exactly what yours will be trying to do.  the card will want 10g, the switch wil want 1g, and then the nxge will be unable to change 10G->1G
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[01:58:20] <echaz> Dude, it would be easier for you to pick up a 1g card then to try to work this problem.
[01:58:50] <axisys> TomJ: i changed the nxge.conf on like this http://rafb.net/p/yC6C7P43.html
[01:58:53] <axisys> and then rebooted
[01:59:11] <axisys> echaz: 1g card works
[01:59:14] <axisys> echaz: I tested
[01:59:20] <axisys> but I need two 1g card
[01:59:36] <axisys> so I asked my boss just get me 1 10g card
[02:00:05] <axisys> the 1g card was ce
[02:00:17] <axisys> in other words fiber too
[02:00:26] <axisys> i wil try what TomJ saying
[02:00:47] <axisys> try to setup the cisco side to to non auto-neg
[02:00:54] <axisys> and fixed 1g full duplex
[02:01:43] <TomJ> or just forcing the nxge to 1g and leaving the cisco on auto woudl probably work too
[02:01:49] <TomJ> but I'd start with both fixed to test
[02:02:27] <axisys> TomJ: host side already done so.. check this out http://rafb.net/p/yC6C7P43.html
[02:02:30] <flyingparchment> buy a 10G linecard :)
[02:02:43] <axisys> brb
[02:05:45] <echaz> are they ever going to have 10g copper?
[02:06:19] <jamesd> yeah and they are only going to cost 10k
[02:06:45] <echaz> nm.  that is what cat6 cable is for :)
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[02:15:39] <Doc> heh..  "you've listed us as spammers, but we didnt send spam!"   "here's a copy of the spam you sent"
[02:17:00] <TomJ> you work for/run one of those spam registry services?
[02:18:06] <bda> Doc: Yea, we hear a hard-luck story a day at my job.
[02:18:09] <bda> From both sides.
[02:20:09] <sfire||mouse> bda: so you are the ones to blame when somebody mis tags our clients email </joke>
[02:20:27] <bda> Not quite. :)
[02:22:35] <bda> sfire||mouse: I work for a mail fwding company. So store lots and lots of spam, but sometimes users are strange and like to forward the spam instead of letting us keep it.
[02:22:40] <bda> Their ISPs tend to not appreciate that behavior.
[02:22:48] <coffman> every one who is using blacklist today should be fired
[02:23:01] <bda> What?
[02:23:10] <coffman> yeah right
[02:23:48] <coffman> false positive counts are so high that using them leads to mail lose
[02:24:02] <bda> Depends on which RBLs you are using.
[02:24:53] <coffman> our last company where serval times on serval black lists for no good reason
[02:25:08] <coffman> */our/mine
[02:25:09] <bda> Were they new IPs?
[02:25:15] <bda> As in, new to you?
[02:25:15] <Tempt> For some reason gmail tags all email from me as spam.
[02:25:28] <Tempt> Which is odd; because I'm not in any RBLs, my forward matches reverse, etc, etc.
[02:25:46] <bda> (As opposed to "just happening after years of happy use")
[02:25:55] <TomJ> Maybe you write a lot of emails about penis enlargement?
[02:26:09] <bda> TomJ: Sometimes you just gotta.
[02:26:14] <TomJ> It's true.
[02:26:19] <bda> Get it off your ... chest.
[02:26:33] <coffman> no, it was mostly about mail server config
[02:26:38] <Tempt> I tried contacting Google about it but they stated they only work with their advertisers on such issues.
[02:27:06] <coffman> open relay and such - which we werent but there detection marked us
[02:27:07] <TomJ> Yeah you wont have any luck getting anything out of Google
[02:27:19] <Tempt> I just wanted to find out *why* they were ditching mail from me.
[02:27:23] <TomJ> Even when you ARE one of their advertisers, unless you're a big spender
[02:28:39] <coffman> hack, our mail server was local network only
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[02:29:33] <coffman> also funny is when you send email from your corp acc and get rejected from the others company mail server
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[02:29:53] <TomJ> Tempt:  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/26/gmail_rant/
[02:30:07] <TomJ> that's a journalist with access to their PR/press department. he couldnt get any answers/help either
[02:30:19] <TomJ> so the average customer has no chance.
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[02:32:12] <coffman> mail is like X, they build it back then, it worked back then, but now there is no way to replace it
[02:32:15] <coffman> sucks
[02:34:19] <Tempt> p is for paging, and paging is for me:  0 0 0 18003776 4869560 489 1089 305231482480 0 0 0 0 20 0 0 0 2818 12109 4900 2 5 92
[02:35:01] <Tempt> To be honest, I'm using whitelisting + RBLs for my mail now and it's working out reasonably well.
[02:35:14] <Tempt> I'd hate to be running an ISP mailserver these days.
[02:35:42] <TomJ> I just spamassassin for my personal domains.  I get about 5-10 spam that slip through a day but I just live with it
[02:35:44] <bda> TomJ: What do you want for free? :)
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[02:36:14] <TomJ> bda:  It may be free to users, but Google are making lots and lots of money from it
[02:36:19] <bda> We half a bunch of SMTP-time policy checks, RBL checks (customizable), and our default policy includes Cloudmark now (yay).
[02:37:04] <bda> The only real complaints we get are when someone has misconfigured their antispam (we allow a ridiculous amount of customization) and a large ISP goes "grr" until we go ":(".
[02:37:10] <bda> (White Courtesy Phone)++
[02:38:13] <bda> Many people were happy when we added auto-whitelist to anything sent through our SASL boxes.
[02:38:17] <TomJ> I guess 5 spam slipping through out of about 800 I receive a day isn't too bad, all told
[02:38:18] <bda> (good feature)
[02:38:34] <bda> Yeah. I get ~500 a day. See maybe two or three. Mail.app usually gets those.
[02:39:18] <Tempt> Cloudmark?
[02:39:30] <bda> Tempt: Familiar with Vipul's Razor?
[02:39:41] <bda> It is the Grown Up Commercial Rockstar Version.
[02:40:08] <bda> Just got a beta of the Solaris x86_64 version. I am a happy puppy. :)
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[02:47:24] <Tempt> Interesting; will have to take a look.
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[02:48:06] <bda> Tempt: They have desktop plugins as well as server versions.
[02:48:12] <bda> My one wish right now is to get our reporting not sucking.
[02:48:25] <bda> You can only report spam via our webmail, which is Squirrelmail, which is awful.
[02:48:28] <bda> :\
[02:50:55] <TomJ> argh this is not fun. I've now sat through two hours of OS install, first sxce 69 and now sxde 64,  only to have them freeze on first reboot in VMWare
[02:51:49] <jpdrawnee1> what vmware version?
[02:51:56] <TomJ> Workstation 6 on Linux
[02:52:04] <TomJ> Sol 10 64bit runs like a charm
[02:52:11] <TomJ> but it doesnt seem to be liking OS at all
[02:52:22] <TomJ> I'm sure I've heard reference to at least b66 being used in VMWare WS6, so I'm not sure what's going on
[02:52:28] <TomJ> maybe taht was 32bit and it's a 64bit issue
[02:52:46] <jpdrawnee1> vmware server (free bee) 1.0.2 b62 works
[02:53:08] <jpdrawnee1> have not got round to never versions
[02:53:34] <jpdrawnee1> but it think others got the Dev version on 1.0.3
[02:53:44] <TomJ> weird
[02:53:51] <TomJ> server 1.0.3 is supposed to have worse Sol support than WS
[02:54:03] <TomJ> or at least, WS has full Sol10 64bit support and Server 1.0.3 only has 'experimental' support
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[02:54:36] <jpdrawnee1> will give it a go - but i need sleep (uk)
[02:54:48] <TomJ> ok thanks anyway
[02:54:51] <TomJ> i'll keep experimenting
[02:55:02] <jpdrawnee1> also i think mine is 32bit
[02:55:14] <TomJ> 64bit is my biggest suspicion right now
[02:55:23] <TomJ> because the installer works fine, and so does the rescue mode
[02:55:26] <TomJ> both of which are 32bit
[02:55:38] <jpdrawnee1> gave up on 64bit - not enough ram to bother
[02:56:11] <jpdrawnee1> theres a way to force it into 32bit mode - that would give you a clear hint that its a 64bit issue
[02:56:23] <TomJ> ah so I can boot it into 32bit even though I installed 64bit?
[02:56:33] <jpdrawnee1> yes
[02:56:44] <jpdrawnee1> you got both kernels installed
[02:57:12] <TomJ> any ieas how?
[02:57:15] <TomJ> I'm hitting google
[02:57:23] <jpdrawnee1> search on the vmware forums
[02:57:38] <jpdrawnee1> thats where i found it - i look about 6 onths ago
[02:57:46] <TomJ> ok thanks
[02:58:41] <jpdrawnee1> i was trying to get brand zones working on a 64bit Centos host
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[03:03:28] <coffman> TomJ: boot the rescue system and edit /boot/grub/menu.lst
[03:03:51] <coffman> TomJ: there you can easily add another line that points to the 32bit kernel
[03:04:35] <TomJ> what's the path for it?
[03:05:03] <TomJ> oh I guess it's the same path as for the rescue entry, right?
[03:05:14] <TomJ> /boot/platform/i86pc/kernel/unix ?
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[03:06:00] <coffman> TomJ: yep
[03:06:03] <coffman> should be
[03:06:15] <TomJ> and the same module?  /boot/x86.miniroot-safe
[03:06:16] <TomJ> ?
[03:06:19] <TomJ> that doesnt sound like it'd be right
[03:07:37] <TomJ> nvm got it
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[03:08:16] <jpdrawnee1> TomJ: dug though vmware and you do the changes you are doing
[03:08:40] <coffman> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-2379/6n4m1vld9?a=view
[03:08:43] <TomJ> ah thanks jpdrawnee1
[03:09:01] <TomJ> yup boots right into the 32bit kerenl
[03:09:08] <coffman> TomJ: module$ /platform/i86pc/boot_archive
[03:09:13] <TomJ> that's really annoying :(
[03:09:23] <TomJ> I guess I'll raise an issue with vmware, see what they think
[03:09:24] <TomJ> thanks guys
[03:09:34] <jpdrawnee1> to lamp the 64bit install you turn longmode off in vmware config
[03:09:50] <TomJ> lamp?
[03:10:07] <jpdrawnee1> ko
[03:10:24] <TomJ> sorry I dont follow.. by turning longmode off in vmware config I can install and run 64bit?
[03:10:31] <jpdrawnee1> no
[03:10:57] <TomJ> ok
[03:11:19] <jpdrawnee1> to kill 64bit mode for 32bit solaris install set monitor_control.disable_longmode = 1
[03:11:39] <TomJ> I think I can do that just by changing the VM type from 'Solaris 10 64bit' to 'Solaris 10'  ?
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[03:11:54] <jpdrawnee1> then in booted system eeprom boot-file=kernel/unix
[03:12:11] <jpdrawnee1> probably - just stating what vmware says
[03:12:27] <TomJ> ok thanks
[03:13:09] <jpdrawnee1> whats VM WS 6 like? not used it since 3
[03:13:27] <TomJ> it's very nice
[03:13:38] <jpdrawnee1> whats it do?
[03:13:41] <TomJ> it has a built in VNC server.  it supports integrated debugging with virtual studio and Eclipse
[03:14:00] <TomJ> full support for Sol 10.   SMP,  up to 8gb per VM,  you can leave VMs running when you logout of X or Windows
[03:14:11] <jpdrawnee1> i am making do with th efree be as it seems to do everything that ws 3 did
[03:14:26] <TomJ> well the free one should do far more than WS 3 did :) that's ancient :)
[03:14:37] <jpdrawnee1> true
[03:14:48] <jpdrawnee1> but it can see anything more
[03:15:00] <TomJ> vmware server is very good too, it's just WS is slightly ahead in compatibility right now
[03:15:17] <delewis> that's usually been the case.
[03:15:18] <jpdrawnee1> which is good - whats the price these days?
[03:15:25] <TomJ> $200
[03:15:26] <delewis> GSX lagged behind slightly, and ESX significantly so.
[03:15:46] <jpdrawnee1> wow - WS 3 was something like 600 pounds
[03:15:55] * delewis still has his ESX 2.5 /w SMP licenses
[03:16:09] <TomJ> I always wanted to try ESX, but never had a machine that matched the HCL
[03:16:33] <delewis> you just need "decent" hardware and it usually just works for the most part. (decent being SCSI or FC)
[03:16:52] <delewis> and its advantageous if you have some sort of SAN array in place.
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[03:18:40] <TomJ> that said, I was shocked to see that VMWare Server has full support for FreeBSD 6 whereas workstation has none officially
[03:19:11] <TomJ> as and when Server gets full support for Sol10 I guess I'll move to that
[03:19:18] <jpdrawnee1> the main use of vmware for me at the monemt is the abiltiy to spawn lots of GLD3 nics
[03:19:39] <TomJ> FBSD in WS6 isn't perfect, and SMP is completely broken.
[03:19:55] <delewis> I don't have much use for VMware anymore, given the majority of the hardware I own personally is now SPARC.
[03:20:39] <jpdrawnee1> really useful for virtual nic project cross-something
[03:20:51] <jpdrawnee1> crossbow?
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[03:21:45] <jpdrawnee1> only main use of my x86 is for vmware + videos
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[03:23:27] <delewis> that's what I bought an XVR-1000 for. Full-screen OpenGL video on my Blade 1000. :-)
[03:23:56] <delewis> so now, I've got one peecee sitting around that's not doing much of anything.
[03:24:00] <coffman> vmware is the jail in that windows belongs
[03:24:10] <TomJ> quite so
[03:24:15] <coffman> i wonder when they start to sell it as a bundle
[03:24:53] <Tempt> delewis: You know the winning option on SPARC for video is actually the m64?
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[03:25:50] <delewis> if you're referring to the existence of Xine's m64 vo, sure.
[03:26:02] <delewis> MPlayer now has an XVR-100 vo, too.
[03:26:31] <delewis> I also bought the XVR-1000 for hi-res digital output and the image quality.
[03:26:32] <jpdrawnee1> k - i got xvr-600 so no joy for me
[03:26:45] <coffman> ah, got to love FSS
[03:26:47] <delewis> XVR-600 should still be able to do fullscreen OpenGL video.
[03:27:01] <jpdrawnee1> also codecs - all the stuff i get you can't get for sparc
[03:27:16] <delewis> what codecs?
[03:27:19] * coffman wonders when sun will switch to nvidia on sparc
[03:27:33] <jpdrawnee1> wma, quicktime, etc...
[03:27:46] <echaz> sparc is screwed.  don't bother
[03:27:48] <delewis> lavc supports all of those.
[03:27:53] <jpdrawnee1> hopefully next update
[03:28:03] <jpdrawnee1> k - never heard of lavc
[03:28:14] <jpdrawnee1> address?
[03:28:19] <delewis> that's what MPlayer uses for codecs.
[03:28:26] <delewis> its a part of MPlayer.
[03:28:26] <jpdrawnee1> k
[03:28:33] <delewis> download the latest SVN snapshot and build.
[03:28:40] <jpdrawnee1> where you get the MPlayer?
[03:28:50] <delewis> Google would be an excellent start.
[03:29:03] <jpdrawnee1> i meant binaries
[03:29:08] <coffman> hm, pmpkg has it and should compile on sparc
[03:29:15] <delewis> you're not going to get binaries.
[03:29:20] <palowoda> Try: http://blogs.sun.com/alvaro/entry/opensolaris_codec_pack_updated  it's got mplayer in the package.
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[03:29:23] <delewis> does pmpkg use the latest SVN snapshot or just pre8?
[03:29:26] <coffman> jpdrawnee1: bins you can get from blastwave i think
[03:29:26] <jpdrawnee1> tried to compile it once  - gave up to many errors
[03:29:40] <jpdrawnee1> blastwave mplayer sucks
[03:29:43] <delewis> well, I am the Solaris/SPARC maintainer, you know...
[03:30:19] <coffman> oO
[03:30:29] <jpdrawnee1> k - i gave up on mplayer from blastwave just because it was so slow
[03:30:48] <jpdrawnee1> had trouble playing dvds
[03:31:02] <delewis> what vo were you using?
[03:31:11] <jpdrawnee1> went through them all
[03:31:30] <Tempt> Meh.
[03:31:40] <Tempt> Go play your Quicktime videos on your macintosh
[03:31:49] <Tempt> I'll continue to watch my DivX videos on my SunBlade
[03:31:52] <jpdrawnee1> played arround with it so the lip sink was almost there
[03:32:15] <jpdrawnee1> k - i am the soal solaris guy :(
[03:32:27] <jpdrawnee1> everybody else jumped to mac :(
[03:32:33] <Tempt> I have no trouble playing full screen DivX on my Blade-1000 with an XVR-600 using -vo gl2 from the blastwave mplayer builds.
[03:32:41] <jpdrawnee1> k
[03:32:48] <jpdrawnee1> will give it another go
[03:32:50] <Tempt> Quicktime should be taken out back and shot.
[03:33:19] <jpdrawnee1> true - so tell the movie industry to stop making there trailers in it
[03:33:20] <Tempt> Support for native non-GL video scaling on the XVR-600 would be nice though.
[03:33:34] <Tempt> Apple stooges.
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[03:40:01] <jpdrawnee1> XVR-600 native anything all depends on what crazy thing 3dlabs do next
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[03:42:21] <jpdrawnee1> from the noise of the xserver mailing list Xorg support is going to be ropey at best :(
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[03:45:57] <Tempt> I'd say Xorg support for framebuffers on SPARC is going to be laughable for years.
[03:46:28] <coffman> Tempt: the martux guy had some working....
[03:46:39] <jpdrawnee1> but no 3d
[03:46:57] <Tempt> 3D is probably less important than xv
[03:47:26] <jpdrawnee1> true - but when you got an expencive 3d card some people actual want it to work
[03:47:53] <coffman> whats the problem? just get a openfirmware ready nvidia card and you are done
[03:48:02] <Auralis> 3dlabs is not doing anything anymore with desktop gfx, they gave up on those
[03:48:15] <Tempt> I'll just grab my pile of spare NVidia cards with Open Firmware.
[03:48:18] <palowoda> Only 39,995.00 on sale.
[03:48:28] <jpdrawnee1> yes - the joy
[03:48:31] 
[03:48:47] <Tempt> Oh, look, a veritable pile of cards.
[03:49:02] * Tempt hands Open Firmware enabled Nvidia cards all round
[03:49:09] <jpdrawnee1> and me being in th euk - i think theres one in the country
[03:49:32] <coffman> Tempt: yeah, i know
[03:50:00] <jpdrawnee1> what drivers do you use?
[03:50:23] <coffman> so whats about the ati cards, there are plently of openfirmware ati cards (apple) and there is a ati driver in xorg...
[03:50:30] <Tempt> I'd be happy just to see Xorg get some support for vaguely modernish non-Sun cards on SPARC. I don't really need OBP support, I'll run it as a second display.
[03:50:43] <jpdrawnee1> have you seen the state of ati drivers!
[03:50:51] <coffman> yes
[03:51:04] <jpdrawnee1> and you even mention it????
[03:51:22] <coffman> good enough to play video and 2d.
[03:51:44] <jpdrawnee1> on a good day
[03:51:49] <coffman> thats what im stuck with on x86 on my laptop
[03:52:03] <jpdrawnee1> ya
[03:52:05] <coffman> and it is not that bad
[03:52:07] <delewis> and for those of us that have high-end semi-modern custom Sun framebuffers are just going to be shit out of luck.
[03:52:11] <jpdrawnee1> ati rage rule!!!
[03:52:24] <delewis> as they're proprietary devices that aren't going to be ported to Xorg by Sun.
[03:52:40] <delewis> XVR-1000, for example.
[03:53:05] <Tempt>  That's fun.
[03:53:12] <jpdrawnee1> that could get dumped to the oss lot as sun owns a lot of it
[03:53:20] <Tempt> Xsun will stick around until Sun EOLs all the hardware that requires it.
[03:53:35] <delewis> the XVR-1000 is EOL'd.
[03:53:35] <Tempt> Given Sun are still selling some of the framebuffers in scope, it'll be quite some time yet.
[03:53:43] <jpdrawnee1> nope
[03:53:52] <delewis> the only framebuffers that are getting ported are the ones that Sun currently sells.
[03:54:03] <jpdrawnee1> xvr-2500 is going to xorg
[03:54:06] <delewis> Tempt, there's been talking of removing Xsun very soon.
[03:54:12] <delewis> XVR-2500 is Wildcat-based.
[03:54:13] <Tempt> Fuck 'em
[03:54:14] <jpdrawnee1> everything else is eol
[03:54:25] <delewis> Xsun could be removed in a Solaris Express release or the next minor release.
[03:54:29] <Auralis> sparc gfx is D-E-A-D
[03:54:38] <Tempt> I'll probably move my desktop off Solaris and onto another OS fairly soon.
[03:54:50] <jpdrawnee1> sunrays!
[03:54:58] <Tempt> Sunrays use Xsun
[03:55:03] <delewis> Sun Rays don't even have Xvideo support.
[03:55:09] <jpdrawnee1> thats going to xorg
[03:55:15] <delewis> it has to.
[03:55:18] <moazamraja> not sure how useful sunray is for home
[03:55:19] <delewis> because Xsun is getting canned shortly.
[03:55:20] <Tempt> Given the rate at which organisations are throwing away their SunRay deployments, I wouldn't be surprised if Sun quietly kill them off.
[03:55:41] <jpdrawnee1> bugger - i really liked sunrays
[03:55:46] <Tempt> At least SunRays are piss-cheap on ebay
[03:55:49] <BatonT> bugger
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[03:55:59] <jpdrawnee1> thin clients in edu just make so much sence
[03:56:13] <Tempt> They're continually all over ebay because a lot of places are ditching them left right and centre.
[03:56:13] <palowoda> Niche market
[03:56:14] <BatonT> i was quietly hoping they would win over more organisations  and it will be back to the day of thin clients
[03:56:21] <Tempt> No MS Office = no win.
[03:56:34] <BatonT> managing large networks of windows desktops totally blows
[03:56:43] <jpdrawnee1> ya
[03:56:46] <Tempt> cheaper to put PCs on desks than build big enough back end servers to deploy MS Office to thin client users.
[03:56:59] <jpdrawnee1> uk seems to be moving to OO and linux thin client
[03:57:13] <moazamraja> i have the newest sunray 2FS, but haven't touched it yet
[03:57:14] <Tempt> Running Word and Excel can chew up 500Mb of RAM. Now build backend infrastructure to run 100 users doing that on Windows.
[03:57:22] <moazamraja> don't have a server to boot it off of, right now
[03:57:25] <Tempt> I want a 2FS just for the USB 2.0 support
[03:57:29] <delewis> Tempt, http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=36112&tstart=0
[03:57:31] <Tempt> You should give it to me; I'll look after it.
[03:57:39] <delewis> ^F for Xsun until you hit alanc's post(s).
[03:58:00] <Tempt> I know alanc hates Xsun and believes Xorg is the magic saviour.
[03:58:14] <palowoda> And it's the truth.
[03:58:15] <jpdrawnee1> ya let every body else do the work!
[03:58:20] <delewis> "Xsun will not be in the Project Indiana releases, which may
[03:58:20] <delewis> end up becoming the next full release of Solaris in time,
[03:58:20] <delewis> and thus may end up setting the schedule for the effective
[03:58:20] <delewis> Xsun EOF. (See the ongoing discussion in indiana-discuss
[03:58:20] <delewis> for the possible changes to the release model.)"
[03:58:52] <flyingparchment> uh, since when is indiana going to become solaris proper?
[03:58:57] <Tempt> Anyway, lunchytime.
[03:58:58] <Doc> "may"
[03:59:08] <Doc> just like "the world 'may' end tomorrow"
[03:59:21] <flyingparchment> i've not even heard any talk it 'may' happen before
[03:59:35] <palowoda> We got time Indiana isn't going to have a build until next summer.
[03:59:40] <jpdrawnee1> k - back to mplayer - what seting do people have?
[03:59:51] <BatonT> so do sunray terminals only work with Xsun?
[03:59:56] <coffman> xsun getting eol is all over the changelogs
[04:00:11] <jpdrawnee1> at the moment - but they work on linux
[04:00:24] <delewis> its in the Solaris 10 8/07 release nots.
[04:00:27] <delewis> notes, rather.
[04:00:28] <palowoda> So how does linux use Xsun.
[04:00:33] <delewis> so it could be EOL'd within the next year.
[04:00:34] <jpdrawnee1> it does not
[04:00:38] <delewis> (minimum, of course)
[04:00:44] <palowoda> So Sunray has Xorg support.
[04:01:00] <palowoda> Just not for Sparc I guess.
[04:01:01] <jpdrawnee1> so since linux has xorg - solaris can (is) be done
[04:02:06] <palowoda> The Sunray options seem to be in a messy state.
[04:02:19] <jpdrawnee1> ?
[04:02:38] <moazamraja> http://www.dell.com/html/global/enterprise/index.htm?partnerName=google
[04:02:43] <moazamraja> jeeezuz phucking eh.
[04:02:56] <moazamraja> so google builds it's appliances on Dell boxes.
[04:03:05] <delewis> yep.
[04:03:10] <jpdrawnee1> google gets when ever is cheap
[04:03:13] <moazamraja> what in lords name stopped them from using Sun x64 boxes
[04:03:14] <coffman> well i dont think xorg on sparc is a problem for sunray, a sunray server does not need a framebuffer
[04:03:15] <BatonT> since we are talking X   my snv_57 box is horendisly slow in X (its a dual core amd with gb ram)    dunno why its so slow (just very unresponsive)
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[04:03:33] <BatonT> i only use desktop when i cant do something easily via ssh from my windows box
[04:04:14] <coffman> BatonT: update the box
[04:04:53] <BatonT> coffman: well for starters i dont know how without a fresh install, and i dont have a partition set aside for liveupgrade if that is even possible (not that i know how)
[04:05:08] <jpdrawnee1> sunray package (since it free) seems to be getting really good
[04:05:31] <coffman> BatonT: pop the cd in and choose upgrade in the installer?
[04:05:37] <jpdrawnee1> good night people
[04:06:07] <coffman> BatonT: or do it right this time and make a new install with the right slices
[04:06:11] <BatonT> coffman: hmm is that all....   might help if i had a cd/dvd drive in server   installed it via pxeboot of a vmware solaris server :)
[04:06:18] <coffman> did that by my self today
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[04:06:44] <delewis> SRSS is no longer free.
[04:06:57] <BatonT> coffman: is there some good doco on recomended slice setup for live upgrade?  also what about zfsboot
[04:06:58] <delewis> Sun backslid on their promise to keep their products free. plain and simple.
[04:07:39] <palowoda> delewis: Do you mean the hardware should be free?
[04:07:41] <coffman> BatonT: zfs boot would be nice but since lu does not do it yet, i dont use
[04:07:49] <delewis> palowoda, software, per Jonathan's 'promise'
[04:07:56] <coffman> BatonT: sure i use it for everything else
[04:08:03] <delewis> SRSS 3.x was free, SRSS is no free (every DTU requires an RTU license)
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[04:08:23] <palowoda> Oh I thought that hardware should be free.  Sorry wrong brain channel.
[04:08:28] <delewis> JES was free (sort of) at some point, but now they've unbundled Communications Suite and are now charging RTU licenses for it.
[04:09:33] <coffman> BatonT: i did slice one 7gb for root, slice two 2gb swap, slice 3 7 gb second root, rest goes in slice 7
[04:09:46] <coffman> BatonT: this is on my single disk laaptop
[04:10:22] <delewis> http://24.176.104.6/~dlewis/jonathan.txt (an email I sent to Jonathan Schwartz and actually got a reply back re: Sun's sudden position on charging for RTU licenses on software)
[04:11:01] <palowoda> 404 not found
[04:11:05] <coffman> BatonT: slice 7 i use for my zpool
[04:11:08] <delewis> woops, my bad.
[04:11:37] <coffman> BatonT: but hack, if you need the desktop, install it on some real machine
[04:11:44] <delewis> try now.
[04:12:20] <delewis> ugh, leave it to Thunderbird not to wrap lines properly on exported messages.
[04:12:56] <palowoda> Ah good Jonathan realized the steering wheel wan't attached to the coumn.
[04:13:03] <palowoda> column
[04:13:06] <delewis> definitely not.
[04:13:19] <palowoda> What's new in Sun management
[04:13:52] <delewis> crack, apparently.
[04:13:53] <echaz> what do you guys think about nexenta?
[04:14:15] <palowoda> It's another opensolaris distro.
[04:14:32] <echaz> It looks like it
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[04:14:50] <palowoda> How long have you used the one your on?
[04:15:04] <echaz> it looks like it is taking the best parts of solaris and the best parts of linux, and merging it.  has anyone here used it?  Do you like it?
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[04:16:27] <palowoda> I get bored quickly when I realize I was using parts of Linux.
[04:17:01] <echaz> why?
[04:17:28] <coffman> echaz: its linux?
[04:17:39] <palowoda> Because I'm learning how to pry GPL and doen't know how to do it right.
[04:18:17] <palowoda> I have Milk but no religion.
[04:18:34] <palowoda> My God is a rock.
[04:18:38] <echaz> alot of sun's stuff is really old..... It makes sence to me that you would want to update it, but keep the important part of solaris (the kernel)
[04:18:52] <palowoda> Hey I'm old what about it.
[04:18:55] <coffman> echaz: try #gnusol . thats the nexenta channel
[04:19:09] <echaz> ok
[04:19:23] <jamesd> the OS is just an OS and should stay out of the way as much as possible untill i need to interact with it, if i running an app i could care less what OS its on,  just keep running and everyone is happy, if it crashes then I have to know what OS its on... and usually then its linux or windoze.
[04:19:26] <coffman> echaz: it makes sence to not use other crap instead
[04:20:19] <echaz> honstly, I am just fishing for opinions.
[04:20:32] <palowoda> You need more hardware.
[04:20:46] <jamesd> echaz, if its not broke dont fix it.
[04:21:03] <echaz> I think that sun has a very stable os, which is what I am looking for in a fileserver, but at the same time, bells and whistles would be nice.
[04:21:23] <jamesd> do you throw away a 20 year old 50lbs sledge hammer because it old.
[04:21:40] <echaz> it would be nice to run mythtv on it.. you know, squeeze another purpose out of it....
[04:22:00] <delewis> I'm squeezing plenty of purposes out of my Solaris systems.
[04:22:01] <palowoda> echaz: You still need more hardware.
[04:22:10] <coffman> i prefer svr4, if some one needs color ls or other borked gnu tools he can put them in /opt/$gravejard
[04:22:30] <coffman> there is no fucking need to  put them in /usr/bin
[04:22:31] <Auralis> color ls <shudder>
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[04:23:15] <coffman> hack, ill like every extra software to be in /opt
[04:23:17] <echaz> need more hardware for what palo?
[04:23:39] <nightswim> alias prstat to top, and vi to nano!
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[04:23:56] <jamesd> echaz, what  ZFS, dtrace, smf,  fireengine,  crossbow, trunking, trusted extension, zones, RBAC, ACL,  is not enough bells and whistles,   and no linux doesn't have most of them.
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[04:25:01] <unixware> hi jamesb
[04:25:37] <coffman> hack, i even can put a perl bomb in a zone and nothing bad will happen
[04:26:02] <echaz> I know james... zfs is why my server is solaris and not linux....
[04:26:42] <echaz> but I started looking at some of the version numbers on the software that I was running, and well some of it is embarassing
[04:26:45] <palowoda> echaz: And about mythTV?
[04:27:21] <echaz> I wanted raidz and zfs, someone will do the port eventually.... I hope
[04:27:30] <echaz> to mythtv
[04:27:40] <jamesd> echaz, i would be more scared looking at linux's version numbers than the ones in solaris, eye candy is fun, but really when the rubber hits the road, its stabiility is the most important feature.
[04:27:45] <palowoda> Your just low on hardware. :-)
[04:28:02] <echaz> Agreed james.
[04:28:19] <echaz> palo, I have 4 hard drives in my solaris box.... I think my hardware set is sufficient
[04:29:50] <jamesd> echaz, i guess for a toy server.. i have machines with over 100 drives attached :-)
[04:30:25] <echaz> it is a home machine.
[04:30:36] <palowoda> I only have 8 servers and 5 laptops in the home with two people.
[04:30:50] <jamesd> i have machines at home that have over 10 drives attached.
[04:30:51] <echaz> palo, no offence, but isn't that a bit much?
[04:31:11] <palowoda> You mean the cost of power yeah.
[04:31:16] <moazamraja> i only have 1 machine at home
[04:31:21] <moazamraja> it's a E12k
[04:31:24] <moazamraja> yeah! beat that!
[04:31:31] <moazamraja> i'm on the serial console as we speak.
[04:31:45] <palowoda> moaramraja: power cost per month?
[04:32:24] <moazamraja> i lost count
[04:32:42] <moazamraja> they're gonna reposses my house soon though since I haven't paid electric bill in 6 months.
[04:32:44] <moazamraja> yeah.
[04:33:01] <moazamraja> in reality, i have 1 iMac 24", and 1 MacBook Pro
[04:33:17] <moazamraja> my 2 sun servers (x2100, x4100), sit in a datacenter
[04:33:34] <moazamraja> and 1 SunBlade 2000 sits in a lab at local silicon valley company
[04:33:52] <palowoda> I've converted all my home servers to dual core amd machines.  Much better on power.
[04:35:28] <moazamraja> i got rid of all my pcs/servers about 2-3 years back
[04:35:29] <moazamraja> too much crap
[04:35:44] <moazamraja> tho i still have LCDs all over right now, but that is actually useful
[04:35:59] <palowoda> I need a laptop in the bathroom.
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[04:36:42] <palowoda> That's when I"m usally full of crap.
[04:37:15] <moazamraja> wifi.
[04:37:21] <Teknomancer> Morning All
[04:37:34] <palowoda> I'm using 802.11n now seems flakey.
[04:38:12] <palowoda> Nice bandwidth though.
[04:38:46] <palowoda> Now if I can find some drivers for 11n on Solaris.
[04:39:41] <Gman> palowoda, i've found that my nokia internet tablet works well for the bathroom
[04:42:47] <palowoda> Gman: I'm building a wall drop stand for a old Sony R505 for the bathroom right now.  Wireless of coarse.
[04:42:58] <Gman> cool
[04:43:28] <palowoda> I've never understood why companies don't put SunRays in the mens room etc.
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[04:44:13] <Gman> hygiene?
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[04:45:03] <palowoda> Hmm I guess so.
[04:46:25] <bda> I hate MySQL almost as much as I hate reiserfs.
[04:46:30] * bda grumps, goes to bed. Finally.
[04:47:03] <jbk> heh you sound like a friend of mine
[04:47:19] <jbk> he works at a colo, and it seems to spend a lot of time having to restore corrupted mysql databases
[04:47:34] <bda> I just had it not write a binlog cleanly on shutdown. Again. So I got to rerun a bunch of queries by hand on half a dozen replicas.
[04:47:37] <bda> Just annoying.
[04:47:54] <bda> "by hand" via a shell script, obviously, but so totally not the point.
[04:48:02] <bda> When something says it shuts down with no errors, you know what?
[04:48:08] <delewis> not to mention it doesn't scale worth a damn.
[04:48:11] <bda> It fucking well should have shut down with no fucking errors.
[04:48:14] <bda> That too.
[04:48:35] <delewis> http://obsecurity.dyndns.org/sysbench-write.png
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[04:49:22] <bda> Yeah, it's a retarded pig full of suck.
[04:49:27] <bda> You won't hear me say different.
[04:49:55] <Teknomancer> is running make install for custom-built LibSDL fine? it installs the lib into /usr/local/lib ... i don't think this is correct.
[04:50:25] <Teknomancer> should be /usr/sfw/lib or /opt/csw/lib perhaps...
[04:51:04] <bda> For once I am glad zfs send is slow. It means I can go to bed instead of staying up to finish this crap.
[04:51:10] * bda &
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[04:53:04] <palowoda> Teknomancer: That is the default install directory unless your going to write a custom pkgbuild spec file for it.
[04:53:41] <Teknomancer> palowoda:  i see, ok fine, i guess its fine then. Thanks.
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[04:59:42] <palowoda> Teknomancer: For future reference on pkgbuild you can check out: http://pkgbuild.sourceforge.net/intro.php and http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/pkgbase/
[05:00:23] <BatonT> <coffman> BatonT: but hack, if you need the desktop, install it on some real machine   <-- it is a real machine
[05:00:25] <Teknomancer> many thanks.
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[05:12:09] <myrkraverk> Teknomancer: you may need to run crle -u -l /usr/local/lib though
[05:12:29] <myrkraverk> Teknomancer: unless you plan to -R it
[05:12:37] <Teknomancer> myrkraverk:  whats crle ?
[05:12:56] <myrkraverk> Teknomancer: solaris for ldconfig
[05:12:59] <myrkraverk> see man
[05:13:00] <Teknomancer> ah k
[05:14:00] <myrkraverk> I actually had to crle -u /usr/sfw/lib to get something custom built to work
[05:15:49] <Tempt> Mm, dee-licious lunch
[05:17:01] <Tempt> bda: The only way to keep MySQL under control is to cron something to dump exports periodically. That way you've got a restore path when it corrupts the databases.
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[05:18:38] <theRealballchalk> so NexentaOS.......if the userland is gnu derived, does it mean i can do 'shutdown -h now' and it will shutdown?
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[05:19:35] <theRealballchalk> instead of 'shutdown -y -g0 -i5' ?
[05:20:26] <palowoda> If it doesn't they have a great bug database to file the problem with.
[05:20:39] <theRealballchalk> i take that as a yes
[05:20:42] <theRealballchalk> cool
[05:21:15] <theRealballchalk> hmmm well the thing is that it gives the ability to boot from zfs
[05:21:20] <theRealballchalk> that would be nice
[05:21:50] <theRealballchalk> but what is taking the sxce/de so long to implement zfs boot?
[05:22:01] <palowoda> Bugs?
[05:22:17] <BatonT> pain?
[05:22:22] <BatonT> dispaire
[05:22:22] <theRealballchalk> liveupgrade would break or something rether i heard
[05:22:51] <theRealballchalk> someone here did it, but i can't remembe rwho
[05:23:13] <palowoda> That is what a bug database is for.
[05:23:41] <theRealballchalk> didn't know it was a bug
[05:24:05] <palowoda> Maybe not enough people use boo.
[05:27:01] <theRealballchalk> so if one wants to build better System V skills, then Nexenta is not the way to go then?
[05:27:53] <Tempt> Err, no.
[05:28:00] <theRealballchalk> hahaha
[05:28:03] <theRealballchalk> ok
[05:28:10] <theRealballchalk> darn
[05:28:12] <Tempt> If you want to run Solaris in a production environment, Nexenta is also not the way to go.
[05:28:15] <theRealballchalk> that zfs thing is tempting
[05:28:21] <Tempt> Nor if you want to acquire the skills to maintain Solaris.
[05:28:26] <theRealballchalk> yes yes
[05:28:33] <theRealballchalk> ok
[05:29:59] <TomJ> I dont get the big deal with bootable ZFS.  It doesnt seem such a hardship having a small non-ZFS boot partition
[05:30:08] <theRealballchalk> so does anyone know how the sxde ufs filesystem compares to other filesystems in terms of speed?
[05:30:27] <palowoda> raidz in software.
[05:30:28] <Tempt> UFS works.
[05:30:37] <moazamraja> TomJ: it just simplifies things to have 1 fs on the system, boot and otherwise
[05:30:40] <jmcp_> ufs meets the criteria for "filesystem"
[05:30:55] <theRealballchalk> Tempt: haha yea
[05:31:07] <Tempt> It's not the fastest, it's not the slowest.
[05:31:09] <Chipdancer> jmcp_: where's your nick?
[05:31:26] <jmcp_> waddayamean, where's my nick?
[05:31:38] <Tempt> Le underscore.
[05:31:39] <Chipdancer> you have this tail
[05:31:42] <delewis> and besides you usually use a different filesystem for production data than you do your filesystem (ex: VxFS for Oracle tablespaces and UFS for root)
[05:31:49] <Tempt> VxFS
[05:31:51] <Tempt> Bah
[05:31:58] <delewis> different filesystems are designed for different workloads (even this applies to ZFS, though, that's improving)
[05:31:59] <Chipdancer> Tempt: zfs for root, zfs for data
[05:32:02] <jmcp_> oh, right
[05:32:05] <jmcp_> I'm in the office today
[05:32:15] <jmcp_> for perhaps another 20 mins then I'm bussing home
[05:32:17] <palowoda> Symantec really got screwed when the bought Veritas.
[05:32:36] <TomJ> delewis: yeah this was my point.  and often you'll have OS on local disks but data on a SAN, etc
[05:32:45] <delewis> customers of Veritas got screwed then Symantic bought them.
[05:32:49] <delewis> s/then/when/
[05:33:36] <Tempt> There doesn't seem to be any QA for VX products anymore.
[05:34:07] <palowoda> The company merge seems to be a decade disaster.
[05:34:31] <Tempt> Symantec only bought VX for their backup software.
[05:34:40] <Tempt> Everything else is just a hassle and will eventually be dropped.
[05:34:43] <delewis> and those of us that actually use Storage Foundation got fucked.
[05:34:48] <palowoda> Than thye should have dropped VxFS.
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[05:34:57] <delewis> well, Veritas still has the market on volume replication.
[05:35:21] <delewis> Sun is losing big on that one with the licensing terms of the Storagetech Volume Replicator.
[05:35:38] <delewis> which is something crazy like $10,000/TB.
[05:35:53] <delewis> VVR runs roughly $30,000 with no silly strings attached.
[05:36:08] <palowoda> Do I hear 40k?
[05:36:39] <jmcp_> StorageTek, tyvm
[05:36:51] <delewis> jmcp, :-)
[05:37:03] * jmcp_ pedants
[05:37:12] <palowoda> Damn a TB disk only cost 325.00 these days.
[05:37:41] <delewis> and this is the same replicator that's an OpenSolaris project.
[05:37:44] <jamesd_> palowoda,  you can get it for a lot less than that... as low as $170
[05:37:48] <Tempt> VVR should be taken out and shot.
[05:37:59] <delewis> hey, VVR actually does work. (most of the time)
[05:38:01] <Tempt> Better off using SAN replication.
[05:38:06] <delewis> a lot more so than the StorageTek one.
[05:38:09] <palowoda> jamesd: for an hitachi 1T disk where?
[05:38:16] <Tempt> I've spent hundreds of hours in the last 2 years working on VVR problems.
[05:38:21] <delewis> even so, VVR is el-cheapo replication.
[05:38:36] <delewis> a couple hundred thousand for a decent SAN replicator suite vs. $30,000 for VVR is a huge difference.
[05:38:41] <Tempt> VX support these days assumes you can turn your environments off all the time to patch it and play with tunes
[05:39:01] <Tempt> They keep playing the "if you don't make this change in 24 hours we will be forced to close the case" routine.
[05:40:01] <Tempt> Besides, even if VVR is cheaper than SNDR up front, they get even on support costs.
[05:40:09] <Tempt> and force you to use VxVM with it.
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[05:45:10] <delewis> where's VCS stand nowadays?
[05:45:59] * jmcp_ heads home
[05:46:02] <jmcp_> back later folks
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[05:46:57] <jbk> still costs and arm and a leg
[05:47:32] <delewis> and with Sun Cluster free nowadays and all, I'd imagine that's hurting the market for VCS.
[05:47:39] <delewis> though, VCS does support Linux.
[05:47:48] <lloy0076> Printing drives me NUTS.
[05:48:01] <moazamraja> Tempt: this is why a major prod. environment I worked in is getting rid of the VxFS, the support procedures (and licensing practices)
[05:48:46] <lloy0076> For some reason, my printer is in a stopped: paused state and I can't fathom how to get it to try starting again.
[05:48:58] <moazamraja> The last thing I want to deal with during a system crash/restart is "OMG, our vxfs license is expired?!"
[05:49:03] <lloy0076> I'm attempting to do this: http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/content/submitted/duplex_printing.html
[05:49:29] <lloy0076> The print manager GUI sees it, but I can't seem to be able to force my printer out of its "I'm not going tos tart" mode.
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[05:50:19] <jbk> yeah, i bet my previous employer could probably save $1mil/yr just if veritas didn't hassle with license keys
[05:50:29] <palowoda> lloy0076: check the svcs logs and clear the maintaince state and restart it with svcadm.
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[05:52:10] <lloy0076> ...
[05:52:14] <lloy0076> print/server is [ Enabled ]
[05:52:19] <lloy0076> And svcs -xv shows nothing.
[05:52:40] <lloy0076> palowoda: It's as though the underlying print system itself has decided to go on holiday.
[05:52:45] <palowoda> Nothing stuck in the print que?
[05:53:09] <lloy0076> Kyocera: stopped: paused
[05:53:20] <lloy0076> I want it NOT stopped NOR paused.
[05:53:40] <lloy0076> I don't care if it decides to fall over, but I can't work out why it's falling over, if it refuses to do whatever it is that is making it fall over.
[05:53:46] <palowoda> Well sometimes the printer can cause that.
[05:53:53] <lloy0076> (if that makes sense - I have a problem I can't work out how to reproduce)
[05:54:00] <palowoda> whats the svc log say?
[05:54:43] <palowoda> By the way what build is this?
[05:55:53] <lloy0076> Build 69 (SXCE)
[05:56:05] <Tempt> moazamraja: We want to pull VX out of this place.
[05:56:10] <lloy0076> And where is this svc.log?
[05:56:11] <palowoda> Definitely new enough.
[05:56:20] <Tempt> moazamraja: However some of the management is in bed with VX so it isn't going to happen.
[05:56:43] <palowoda> /var/svc/log/*print*
[05:57:19] <lloy0076> [ Aug  6 13:18:06 Executing start method ("/lib/svc/method/print-svc start") ]
[05:57:19] <lloy0076> Print services started.
[05:57:19] <lloy0076> [ Aug  6 13:18:06 Method "start" exited with status 0 ]
[05:57:31] <lloy0076> I assume that an exit of 0 is the usual Unix OK
[05:57:48] <palowoda> yeah
[05:57:55] <lloy0076> Nothing unusual at all.
[05:58:07] <lloy0076> As I was saying, it's as though LP itself has gone on holiday.
[05:58:30] <palowoda> That wouldn't be new for Solaris printing.
[05:58:45] <palowoda> I assumed you recyled the printer?
[05:59:05] <lloy0076> Yeppers
[05:59:08] * lloy0076 sigh
[05:59:20] <lloy0076> If push comes to shove, I'll run a print server in a Brand LX zone on Cups.
[05:59:25] <lloy0076> :(
[05:59:34] <lloy0076> It's a dastardly horrendous solution but it would work :P
[05:59:54] <palowoda> I wonder if it has a lock file somewhere in the print que spool directory.
[06:00:03] <palowoda> I hate printer problems myself.
[06:00:25] <palowoda> But I've been using a ipp networked printer lately.
[06:01:15] <lloy0076> Oh well, it's not a major.
[06:01:16] <Chipdancer> hrmm, I'm following the zfs manpage example on putting swap on a zvol, however now that I have created the zfs device, I can't see it in /dev
[06:01:28] <lloy0076> It just means that I'm missing duplex printing; I *hate* Unix+ Printing.
[06:01:34] <Chipdancer> (the manpage suggests /dev/zvol/dsk/zpool/zfs)
[06:01:39] <Chipdancer> but I have no /dev/zvol
[06:01:47] <Chipdancer> snv b66
[06:02:06] <lloy0076> As a last hurrah, I'm going to install cups from blastwave:)
[06:02:09] <Chipdancer> is there some magic incantation required to create the zvol entry?
[06:03:15] <palowoda> lloy0076: Agree totatlly I just got my networked Brother Color laster to work at build 65.  A total was of time before that.
[06:07:28] <Tempt> haha
[06:07:33] <Tempt> My lexmark printer came with solaris drivers
[06:09:06] <palowoda> Sometimes I don't understand the wisdom of Unix lp subsystem developers.  For instance in my /var/spool/lp/logs I have the message: [Sun Aug  5 04:05:53 2007] [notice] Accept mutex: fcntl (Default: fcntl)  Now what respecting user or admin knows what the default fcntl is?
[06:11:19] * coraline raises her hand
[06:11:58] <palowoda> What does "Accept mutex:" mean with printers anyways?
[06:12:11] <coraline> mutex = a lock
[06:12:30] <TomJ> It always makes me think of mucus
[06:13:32] <palowoda> coraline: What lock?  A network lock to the printer?  A file lock for the printer?  A Master pad lock for the printer?
[06:13:46] <coraline> man fcntl
[06:14:13] <coraline> fcntl does file locking
[06:14:27] <lloy0076> Ok, this is called the REBOOT solution.
[06:14:28] * lloy0076 sigh
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[06:14:42] <coraline> so accept mutex: fcntl default:fcntl means that the lock has been accepted
[06:14:43] <Tempt> WTF?
[06:14:49] <Tempt> Reboot to get a printer working?
[06:14:50] <palowoda> lloy0076: was going to suggest that.
[06:14:51] <Tempt> Crackmonkey.
[06:15:01] <coraline> devfsadm -C
[06:15:18] <Tempt> devfsadm: lloy0076 has left the building
[06:15:46] <palowoda> devfsadm, you lost me.
[06:16:15] <coraline> I can't decide if I should stay and discuss my box of mutex locks or go watch Futurama
[06:16:22] <coraline> do you know what devfsadm does?
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[06:16:57] <palowoda> Yes I know devfsadm -C cleans up unused device links.  What about it?
[06:17:20] <coraline> I was suggesting it to the guy who was rebooting
[06:17:35] <palowoda> he's got a printer jam problem.
[06:17:46] <coraline> jamesd: you around anywhere?
[06:17:57] <palowoda> I don't think he needs to clean up devices.
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[06:18:25] <coraline> doesn't matter.
[06:18:37] *** steve-814 is now known as steve-
[06:18:38] <coraline> if you don't need to, it won't clean anything.  but it WILL add new devices attached regardless.
[06:19:44] <coraline> anyway.
[06:19:49] <coraline> Futurama time.
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[06:26:21] <Teknomancer> is doing svcadm clear system/boot-archive (when hard reboot happens a good idea) ?
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[06:42:39] <Tempt> hmmm
[06:42:45] <Tempt> Blade 2K on ebay
[06:42:56] <Tempt> Dual 1.28; dual XVR-1200; XVR-500; 4Gb RAM
[06:43:00] <Tempt> Nice specs; pity about the price.
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[06:46:54] <delewis> what's the price?'
[06:48:07] <Tempt> $3500
[06:48:08] <Tempt> (au)
[06:48:29] <delewis> that's not too bad.
[06:48:42] <delewis> considering its dual XVR-1200s (which are still going for > $500 USD)
[06:48:56] <Tempt> Yeah, but I'm not willing to pay that.
[06:48:57] <delewis> the dual 1.2GHz US-IIIs are still pricey, too.
[06:49:20] <Tempt> Apparently those XVR-1200s will be unsupported soon enough anyway.
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[07:11:03] <WickedWicky> Morning all
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[07:53:30] <lloy0076> Hooray!
[07:53:45] <lloy0076> After a huge amount of chook sacrifices, a goat and a donkey, I have printing working.
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[07:54:02] <lloy0076> It's a slight kludge but it does what I need it to.
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[08:00:33] <Doc> hey tpenta... how'd the talk go?
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[08:37:55] <WickedWicky> hoorah
[08:38:21] <WickedWicky> fortunatly it's monday so I can go back to work! w00t
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[08:40:15] <cmihai> Morning
[08:40:25] <WickedWicky> morning!
[08:40:40] <quasi> morning
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[09:00:30] <WickedWicky> welcome back
[09:01:55] <cmihai> Memory upgrade :P
[09:02:27] <jmcp> cmihai: so do you remember why you left us?
[09:03:50] <cmihai> Yes.
[09:04:21] <WickedWicky> morning jmcp
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[09:05:19] <jmcp> hi WickedWicky
[09:05:36] <jmcp> cmihai: so the upgrade worked then. great :-)
[09:05:40] <cmihai> Yep.
[09:06:07] <cmihai> Quite dramatic increase in performance from 1GB to 3 :-)
[09:06:27] <cmihai> Too bad this trash MB doesn't support 4GB ;-\.
[09:06:46] <cmihai> It's one of those weird 64 bit intels that has a 3.4 GB memory GAP or something.
[09:07:53] <WickedWicky> spank my butt and call me betty, now onvv-gate did compile
[09:07:53] <WickedWicky> wtf
[09:08:42] * jmcp gets out his spanking kit
[09:09:12] <cmihai> Bring out the gimp...
[09:11:10] <WickedWicky> Pulp fiction rules
[09:11:43] <WickedWicky> anyway, I didnt do anything weird, i think. rm -rf usr && bunzip -c on-src.tar.bz2 | tar xvf - && nightly ./opensolaris.sh
[09:11:48] <WickedWicky> same environmental script et all
[09:11:55] <WickedWicky> weird
[09:11:58] <cmihai> Normal.
[09:12:13] <WickedWicky> same sources that dont compile at first but later do?
[09:12:20] <cmihai> onnv-gate is never guaranteed to build.
[09:12:38] <cmihai> WickedWicky: are you sure you didn't clone it again?
[09:13:03] <WickedWicky> I have ADHD, I am never sure about anything i do
[09:13:08] <cmihai> lol
[09:13:29] <cmihai> Oh, you Americans and your made up diseases...
[09:13:33] <cmihai> Or is that a condition :-)
[09:13:34] <WickedWicky> I am dutch
[09:13:35] <WickedWicky> for the 94309843 times
[09:13:52] <WickedWicky> roar
[09:13:53] <WickedWicky> I dunno
[09:14:01] <WickedWicky> what i do know is that I get memphitamines for free
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[09:14:11] <WickedWicky> ANYWAY, it compiled, I am happy
[09:14:15] <cmihai> Eh
[09:14:29] <WickedWicky> eh sounds so canadian
[09:14:38] <cmihai> Meh
[09:14:46] <WickedWicky> if I got a dollar for every time I heard "eh" in toronto I'd be rich
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[09:22:34] <jmcp> hi brendang
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[09:22:38] <brendang> jmcp: G'Day
[09:23:05] <jmcp> interesting traffic in the blogsphere following ahl's posting
[09:23:11] <Tempt> Here's trouble.
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[09:23:17] <Tempt> blogsphere.
[09:23:27] <Tempt> What is the world coming to?
[09:23:30] <jmcp> Tempt: it's ok, I only *act* suspicious :)
[09:23:37] <brendang> jmcp: some interesting, most by anonymous cowards
[09:23:49] <Tempt> jmcp: URL for posting?
[09:23:58] <jmcp> blogs.sun.com/ahl current entry
[09:24:01] <Tempt> (I'm not keeping up with scandal lately)
[09:24:04] <jmcp> and comments
[09:24:20] <Tempt> Oh, that noise.
[09:24:38] <delewis> the Linux community doesn't tend to like it when you pick up their own shit and throw it back at them.
[09:25:01] <jmcp> I garnered a few comments on my blog, too http://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/roller/jmcp/entry/20070803, and then there's the osnews stuff http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=18388
[09:26:58] <delewis> most of the commentary I thought amounted for the usual GPL-handholding and general misunderstanding.
[09:27:10] <Tempt> haha
[09:27:18] <Tempt> I love that presentation with "Tools that we avoid"
[09:27:21] <Tempt> That's great.
[09:27:26] <jmcp> and assuming that they're authoritative for linux ... and for Sun, too
[09:27:27] * delewis wonders when people will actually start reading the GPL, rather than reading the FSF FAQ.
[09:28:03] <tsoome> delewis: reading does not mean understanding.
[09:28:06] <jmcp> delewis: they never will, but the real question is, when are people going to stop injecting the ideology and start thinking for themselves
[09:28:27] <Tempt> Man, when people learn to ditch crazy dogma and think for themselves?
[09:28:31] <delewis> tsoome, reading it might actually elliminate the concept that the GPL covers binaries.
[09:28:52] <delewis> instead, the FSF FAQ has made that truth.
[09:28:59] <tsoome> maybe, but ppl do have wishful thinking, and they dont like to change their ideas
[09:29:06] <Tempt> When you see organized religions falling apart because people take an analytical look at what they're doing, that's when you'll see people reading, understanding and commenting intelligently on software licenses outnumbering the blind faithful.
[09:29:34] <delewis> Linux could have DTrace along with ZFS *right now* if the GPL crowd would just actually fucking read the license.
[09:29:45] <delewis> and then pinning the problems on the CDDL just pisses me off to no end.
[09:29:52] <cmihai> delewis: when you put something in plain English you'll be surprised to realize most people can't read plain English :-)
[09:30:13] <jmcp> don't forget the "we wuz here first, you have to join our k1u8 otherwise you're evil" attitude
[09:30:30] <brendang> I noticed something interesting throughout the comments,
[09:30:41] <brendang> the Sun people generally used our real names,
[09:30:42] <delewis> I'm still awaiting the day that some company 'violates' the imaginary linking clause and actually get into court where lawyers worth the air they breathe can dispute the ambiguities in the GPL.
[09:30:52] <Tempt> SunOS predates Linux by a long time; so our k1ub is kewler
[09:30:54] <Tempt> heh.
[09:30:59] <brendang> whereas the Linux people used aliases, and avoided identifying themselves.
[09:31:00] <trochej> Elo
[09:31:02] <trochej> Coffee?
[09:31:07] <Tempt> Mmm, caffeine
[09:31:08] <jmcp> Tempt: but their k1u8 has been "open" for longer ...
[09:31:26] <jmcp> brendang: yes, that is an interesting thing. I can only identify mjg56 directly
[09:31:27] <Tempt> jmcp: Hey, it's 5:31, I'm about to go home, you can't get me angry at the moment.
[09:31:34] <bda> Tempt: We do (have replicas dedicated for failover and backups).
[09:31:39] * Tempt places a saucepan on head, beats it with a hammer and says "I can't hear you!"
[09:31:40] <cmihai> Tempt: I think Bill Joy && CO has been doing this whole open sourceing thing for a bit longer then the Linux crowd...
[09:31:55] <Tempt> cmihai: Well, no shit.
[09:31:56] <cmihai> You know, BSD, vi, TCP/IP, all that :-)
[09:31:57] <jmcp> Tempt: their definition of "open" is "you will use the GPLv2 or be taunted forever"
[09:32:02] <delewis> you're forgetting that the bulk of the Linux crowd don't even know who Bill Joy is. :-)
[09:32:05] <delewis> usually because of their age.
[09:32:32] <cmihai> "Is he related to Gill Bates?"
[09:33:17] <jmcp> he's Gill Bates' lovechild
[09:33:22] <delewis> but yes, I'll jump up and down the day the imaginary FSF linking clause is disputed in court.
[09:33:24] <Tempt> You need to understand the motivations a little better. There's a huge crowd of linux types out there, typically aged between 15 and 25. They never had experience to UNIX before jumping on the linux bandwagon, the bulk of them install Ubuntu/Mandriva/whatever and live in a GUI. They don't understand politics, they don't understand philosophy, and they were taught that Microsoft is evil at an early age.
[09:33:35] <Tempt> Jumping on the Linux politics bandwagon gives them something to believe in.
[09:33:42] <delewis> I think that'd be a huge hit on morale for those that do use the GPL.
[09:33:51] <brendang> well, we still don't really know who these Linux GPL advocates are (apart from mjg56).
[09:33:56] <delewis> 'you've been using a license that didn't match your intent'
[09:34:03] <Tempt> The geezer nailed to the stick in the building with the pointy roof failed them, ESR and RMS become the nexus of faith.
[09:34:27] <Tempt> brendang: You ever been to a Red Hat xmas party? I have. I've seen it.
[09:34:38] <Tempt> I'd swear one of them was about to say Stallman could raise the dead.
[09:34:43] <jmcp> brendang: and Greg "anybody who thinks they want a stable in-kernel interface is pathetically misguided" Kroah-Hartman
[09:35:17] <brendang> Tempt: oh, I believe they exist, just that they like to hide behind aliases online
[09:35:38] <delewis> I thought it was "we can't provide a stable kernel interface because we're a bunch of lazy, untrained, and unseasoned bums so I just made up a long string of bullshit that accomplished advocation for the GPL and covering our asses"
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[09:36:22] <jmcp> delewis: which results in commercial software publishers having to spend literally millions of $ every time they want to support a new kernel or glibc version
[09:36:51] <delewis> jmcp, but you're missing the point. If you're software isn't commercial, *they'll* fix it for you!
[09:36:58] <delewis> s/you're/your/
[09:37:01] <jmcp> I bet they will ... no doubt in the Veterinary sense
[09:37:10] <cmihai> "Why don't people write commercial software for Gentoo Linux with the 2.6.12 and XYZ software" - godda love that question.
[09:37:24] <jmcp> cmihai: because there's too much rice involved
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[09:37:59] <Tempt> cmihai: Couldn't work out the best CFLAGS
[09:38:03] <cmihai> Using commercial software on Linux is a PITA, especially when it involves any kind of kernel modules... see Cisco or VMware or NVIDIA drivers.
[09:38:34] <cmihai> Every time you get some kind of kernel patch.. erm... update, you need to find a new version or recompile or update or whatever, it's such a pain.
[09:38:37] <Tempt> Enough, I'm going home; see you in 10 minutes.
[09:38:39] <razrX> morning all
[09:39:05] <Berny> morning
[09:39:06] <jmcp> Tempt: ciao
[09:39:07] <jmcp> hi Berny
[09:39:22] <cmihai> Then they wonder "Why does Oracle or Cisco or whatever only support RHEL and SLES version X Y Z?!"..
[09:39:23] <Berny> hey jmcp
[09:40:34] <cmihai> I actually tried installing Veritas VxVM / VxFS on Linux... not fun.
[09:40:40] <Berny> anyone familiar with the sol10 rpc.nisd using an ldap backend?
[09:40:52] * jmcp runs away screaming
[09:40:56] <Berny> hehe
[09:41:14] * Berny would as well but hey sometimes one gotta be tough :-)
[09:42:14] <bda> zfs++
[09:42:53] <Berny> bloody thing stops answering lookups after one tries to lookup name=+ in passwd.org_dir too often
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[09:44:36] <Berny> ok, lets rephrase it... on a sol2.6 how would i find the process that tries to "getent passwd +"
[09:44:47] <cmihai> Whoa
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[09:45:40] <cmihai> Berny: erm dude, that's 10 years old :-)
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[09:45:56] * Berny is well aware of that
[09:46:07] <cmihai> It's not like you can do process snoop with DTrace or something...
[09:46:28] <bda> You're gonna need a lot of chickens.
[09:46:29] <deather> anyone succeeded in compiling the latest ON with Sun Studio 12?
[09:46:29] <jmcp> Berny: how about if we undid one of the three hands that's tied behind your back while using sol2.6 ?
[09:46:32] <Berny> but if you want to rewrite the driver stuff for some medical equipment, i'm willing to replae that box by a sol10 box :-P
[09:46:39] <jmcp> deather: no. it's a known issue
[09:47:07] <deather> jmcp: okay. I've read it wasn't officialy supported, I was just curious
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[09:47:18] <jmcp> it dies with errors somewhere
[09:47:21] <deather> thanks, I won't waste time trying right now ;-)
[09:47:25] <jmcp> good  idea :)
[09:47:29] <jmcp> waste time some other way instead
[09:47:38] <cmihai> Quake 3 :-)
[09:47:39] <delewis> Berny, what vendor and what equipment?
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[09:48:32] <delewis> if its imaging through GE, get on the phone with your rep and get at least Solaris 8 in there. (GE uses 8 on their imaging systems nowadays)
[09:48:39] <Berny> delewis: 4d neuroimaging /bti stuff behind the sol2.6 box is a little old MEG
[09:49:03] <delewis> is it actually attached to imaging equipment or is it just your imaging solution that stores images?
[09:49:39] <Berny> bti uses sol8 on their new boxes as well now... but for that old meg there is no new software release that works with sol8, besides that box is a sparcstation 20 :-)
[09:50:00] <delewis> lovely.
[09:50:01] <Berny> it's hardwired to one of the hardware cabinets ot the MEG magic
[09:50:26] <Berny> doing data acquisition over a scsi bus and some added extra cabling
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[09:51:40] <delewis> got to love when a vendor throws hardware on you and lets it rot.
[09:51:47] <Teknomancer> awesome the solaris kern logger has generated a sc in the log itself :)
[09:51:48] <Teknomancer> neato
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[09:52:51] <delewis> GE is usually good about not letting that happen. I''ve seen them replace E420Rs with V480s.
[09:53:10] <Berny> well that stuff is running pretty well for the past 10 years :-)
[09:53:37] <Berny> it's only the nis->ldap thing that chokes on that on lookup
[09:53:58] <delewis> you're still running an EOL'd release of Solaris, though. :-)
[09:54:10] <cmihai> On EOL-ed hardware :-)
[09:54:18] <Berny> yeah yeah yeah :-P
[09:54:18] <cmihai> No patches, no support, no way out ;-)
[09:54:36] <Berny> i'd like a patch for the sol10 rpc.nisd :-P
[09:54:46] <cmihai> Sucks to be you :-]
[09:54:56] <delewis> not to mention that system could be rooted in 5 seconds.
[09:55:05] <bda> The walls are closing in! In the distance you can hear the slathering howls of the lycanthropic hordes.
[09:55:07] <Berny> something like "if looking for + in passwd, return not found and don't bother asking ldap"
[09:55:13] <cmihai> Hell, capaciators usually burn out after 10 years...
[09:55:17] <bda> A ancient Solaris box stands between you and the only door.
[09:55:20] <bda> Roll for initiative!
[09:55:51] <Berny> delewis: well true... if you get into the private network :-P
[09:57:45] <delewis> there's always a private network protecting ancient systems isn't there? ;-)
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[09:58:20] <bda> Digital moat filled with managerial hope and the dismembered crossed fingers of your predecessors.
[09:58:43] <Berny> in this case it is existing... since i found the idea of having a dial-in line from bti to that box was reason enough to separate it from the "real" stuff ;-)
[09:59:06] <delewis> that's the way it works with all IBM systems.
[09:59:21] <Berny> or ge or siemens
[09:59:25] <delewis> if you buy the latest pSeries gear with say, 64 procs, you're still getting the packaged external 56k modem.
[09:59:35] <cmihai> Hah
[09:59:40] <Berny> though siemens can now use vpn
[09:59:45] <cmihai> delewis: do you get 2?
[09:59:55] <cmihai> I got 2 with a router I purchased...
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[10:00:07] <delewis> I've only seen one distributed with systems before.
[10:00:08] <Berny> hey i could make some money with the spare 56k modem i have here... just sell it to an ibm customer :-)
[10:00:17] <cmihai> They gave me 2 bleeding 56K U.S. Robotics 56k v92 external serial modems :-)
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[10:00:25] <delewis> oh, definitely.
[10:00:29] <delewis> they're very nice modems.
[10:00:40] <delewis> its just sort of funny paying for large gear and getting a 56k external modem. :-)
[10:00:41] <cmihai> Well, yeah, but they're still modems :-)
[10:01:03] <cmihai> "This system can handle 10GbE with encryption at line speed!"
[10:01:08] <cmihai> Oh, and you get a free 56k modem!
[10:01:28] <delewis> the iSeries systems actually do something intelligent with them.
[10:01:35] <Tempt> online again.
[10:01:39] <delewis> for the pSeries sytems, it just serves as access to the management board and a console.
[10:02:25] <delewis> when there's a failure the equivalent of 'fmd' in OS/400 will call-out using the external line.
[10:03:13] <delewis> and with any luck, you'll have a CE on-site within an hour or so (depends on your level of support) with the replacement part.
[10:03:40] <delewis> and that's not like an urban myth, I've *seen* it happen.
[10:03:50] <bda> :o
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[10:07:05] <Berny> right, workaround for now - dump passwd table into file and don't use nis+, open call with sun
[10:07:40] <jmcp> Berny: hope you've got a support contract for solaris 2.6
[10:08:02] <Tempt> delewis: Obviously IBM support is a little better whereever you are.
[10:08:04] <Berny> :-P
[10:08:11] <Tempt> delewis: I've seen that performance from EMC support though.
[10:08:40] <delewis> Tempt, I'm within an hour or so of a large IBM partner, and this particular shop was a hospital.
[10:09:01] <delewis> and the particular iSeries was used for storing patient records.
[10:09:11] <delewis> kind of makes for a priority job, you know?
[10:10:59] <Tempt> In my experience, the more important the system the more IBM will give you the runaround. But hey, I've had bad experiences.
[10:11:14] <Tempt> (bloody printer techs breaking my bloody rs/6000 grumble grumble)
[10:12:17] <cmihai> "Printer tech"
[10:12:29] <cmihai> Is that a fancy name for "toner changer / paper feeder guy"
[10:12:52] <delewis> I usually call those "tape monkeys"/interns.
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[10:13:43] <cmihai> Heh, "intern" always makes me think about Dilbert :p
[10:14:02] <delewis> most interns usually have a "tape monkey" responsibility, though.
[10:14:27] <delewis> who else is going to go around the datacenter swapping tapes in the libraries and drives.
[10:14:40] <tsoome> well, sun support is not exactly the top class as well, esp. if we are going to speak about patch management.....
[10:15:07] <cmihai> Can't say anything good about HP support...
[10:15:35] <delewis> I've never placed a support call with HP, but we at least got monthly patch CDs for the HP-UX systems.
[10:15:50] <cmihai> delewis: yeah, we get those.
[10:15:50] <delewis> (ended up with 4 full-height cabinets full of those CDs after a few years)
[10:15:51] <cmihai> Encrypted though.
[10:16:09] <cmihai> There's like 3 keys you need to type every time you use them.
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[10:16:15] <delewis> I know Sun does the same.
[10:16:18] <cmihai> Oh well, I still use the online patches though.
[10:16:23] <Tempt> When I say printer tech, I mean the guy they normally send out to fix broken printers gets sent to fix your RS/6000 because he's cheaper than an RS/6000 guy.
[10:16:24] <delewis> its an option in the support contract.
[10:17:13] <delewis> I don't know IBM really has software people.
[10:17:19] <delewis> most of our CEs tended to be hardware-type people.
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[10:17:26] <cmihai> IBM used to send us update cds too
[10:17:29] <delewis> usually on the storage side of things, but that's what tended to be the problem.
[10:17:30] <cmihai> Every service pack anyway.
[10:17:35] <delewis> cmihai, right.
[10:17:37] <delewis> we got those, too.
[10:18:02] <delewis> I can't say I've ever seen an AIX/pSeries CE before.
[10:18:16] <cmihai> delewis: 3rd party contractors here.
[10:18:25] <cmihai> IBM partners and stuff handle the software part.
[10:18:32] <delewis> cmihai, a.k.a. Global Services.
[10:18:33] <delewis> right
[10:18:38] <cmihai> Same with Cisco... it's all PICA and contractors and all that.
[10:18:54] <cmihai> Sure, they're certified, but meh :-)
[10:18:57] <delewis> we had an IBM partner an hour away or so (same shop I referred to earlier) that sold us our hardware and software packages, and usually did the installation/setup of hardware and software.
[10:19:39] <delewis> we had some in-house GE guys, too.
[10:19:40] <cmihai> Can't say I care much for preinstalled software.
[10:19:57] <cmihai> It's usually just some insatisfactory network install thing.
[10:19:58] <delewis> and some in-house Cerner people (some medical package we were looking into)
[10:20:11] <delewis> an installation of this Cerner software typically takes 1-2 years of planning and setup to get right.
[10:20:29] <delewis> we paid their expenses for 2 years (which included travel from KS to TN), appartment, rental cars, etc.
[10:21:29] <delewis> its basically Oracle and shitload of middleware.
[10:21:44] <delewis> a.k.a. "a pot of shit"
[10:21:57] <cmihai> So it's basically Peoplesoft + more crap + RAC?
[10:22:05] <delewis> yeah, pretty much.
[10:22:21] <delewis> they put a p5 570 on us with 32 procs and 64GB of memory
[10:22:37] <cmihai> heh
[10:22:38] <delewis> an IBM ESS4800
[10:22:39] <delewis> er
[10:22:42] <delewis> ESS800*
[10:23:04] <cmihai> Storage?
[10:23:05] <delewis> split the p5 570 into 4 LPARs, two for Oracle RAC, and two for their cheesy middleware with HACMP somewhere in the mix.
[10:23:19] <delewis> yeah, ESS is the high-end IBM storage line.
[10:23:28] <delewis> it has two pSeries servers in the closet for management of the storage.
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[10:23:40] <delewis> rather than a single Xeon system that the DS lines have.
[10:23:48] <cmihai> Eh, it's not bad.
[10:24:02] <cmihai> HA makes sense in this case too.
[10:24:14] <delewis> but yeah, all in all, they had spent around $10-20 million.
[10:24:29] <delewis> it was basically getting us off the iSeries (patient-record management type stuff)
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[10:24:51] <delewis> and all of the sudden nurses and doctors can go around with PDAs and query patient records.
[10:24:55] <delewis> big. fucking. deal.
[10:25:07] <cmihai> Eh
[10:25:12] <cmihai> delewis: how many patients?
[10:25:36] <delewis> its a regional healthcare organization
[10:25:41] <delewis> mostly all of west TN
[10:25:45] <delewis> which is like 15 hospitals.
[10:25:55] <cmihai> Oh, that's not all that big.
[10:26:44] <cmihai> Machines should handle a LOT more load.
[10:27:11] <delewis> yep.
[10:27:13] <cmihai> Or at least I'm comparing it with what we do here... for about 20 mil records.
[10:27:26] <delewis> and the iSeries sytem before was handling payroll/billing/patient records
[10:27:29] <cmihai> Oracle RAC, all that, but on Alpha servers :-)
[10:27:36] <delewis> they've split payroll and billing off onto Windows shit.
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[10:27:44] <cmihai> And again, we do the whole national healthcare system here, it's different...
[10:28:07] <delewis> they were also doing the OS/400 record to Oracle conversion for us
[10:28:09] <cmihai> It's a nice GS1280 with Tru64 though, great Alpha machines... EV7 1.3 Ghz and all.
[10:28:10] <delewis> which isn't cheap.
[10:28:27] <cmihai> Convertion will be a PITA though,.
[10:28:31] <cmihai> Since Tru64 is EOLed
[10:28:32] <Tempt> Mmm
[10:28:34] <delewis> but yeah, it seemed like a waste of money.
[10:28:34] <Tempt> GS1280. Nice.
[10:28:48] <cmihai> Tempt: yeah, 64-way Alpha servers :-)
[10:28:50] <delewis> the p5 570 is pretty nice, though.
[10:28:50] <Tempt> I've done Oracle on TruCluster before. It was grand.
[10:28:53] <delewis> and they did go all out on HA.
[10:28:58] <Tempt> We only had a mix of GS160s and ES47s though.
[10:29:11] <delewis> RAC+HACMP+at least 8 paths to the ESS800.
[10:30:13] <cmihai> I wonder if they'll go OpenVMS or HP-UX now...
[10:30:27] <cmihai> They're pretty much an HP whore ;P
[10:30:44] <delewis> HP-UX has been revived, right?
[10:30:50] <cmihai> It's never been dead.
[10:31:05] <cmihai> 11iv3 is out now too.
[10:31:26] <delewis> I thought it was the case no more development would be done, but only maintenance. I know they changed from that a year or so with the announcement of 11iv3.
[10:31:33] <cmihai> No, that's Tru64
[10:31:54] <cmihai> It's EOLed, only maintenence for a year, they urge everyone to move to HP-UX (or OpenVMS)
[10:32:14] <delewis> are they putting migration tools/support into place?
[10:32:19] <cmihai> Not really.
[10:32:27] <cmihai> They pretty much canned the Tru64 team.
[10:32:33] <delewis> lovely.
[10:32:36] <cmihai> And you are sort of right about HP-UX too
[10:32:45] <cmihai> It's been a while since the last release before 11iv3
[10:32:49] <cmihai> About 4 years ...
[10:32:59] <cmihai> Since the Itanium migration it's been in shambles...
[10:33:42] <cmihai> And again, they still support 11i v1, and that's at least 7 years old.
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[10:34:35] <delewis> doesn't seem like HP is much of a UNIX vendor anymore.
[10:34:41] <cmihai> Apart from Online JFS (Veritas) and the whone nPars/vPars (hardware / software partitioning) deal, it's really behind AIX and Sun
[10:35:00] <cmihai> It's down there with SCO's UnixWare and OpenServer... doesn't really have much to offer.
[10:35:04] <delewis> not as bad as IRIX, I'd hope.
[10:35:24] <Teknomancer> how is HP's propreitory Unix compared to Solaris ?
[10:35:25] <cmihai> Itanium is the only supported platform now, and HP-UX is their only UNIX (since Tru64 is dead)...
[10:35:36] <cmihai> Teknomancer: I was just saying it's worse.. a LOT worse :-)_
[10:35:42] <quasi> Teknomancer: bloody annoying
[10:35:45] <cmihai> Well, actually, it's Solaris 9 level to be honest.
[10:36:04] <delewis> that's where AIX was until very recently, too. :-)
[10:36:11] <Teknomancer> i see, don't really see many companies using HP-UX
[10:36:22] <delewis> there's still a few vendors pushing it.
[10:36:28] <quasi> Teknomancer: although they've "borrowed" a pile of features from solaris in the very latest hp-sux
[10:36:37] <Teknomancer> lol
[10:36:38] <cmihai> You know, none of the fancy ass tools you see in Solaris 10.. well, apart from vPars (it's like Containers / Zones) and npars (it's like LDOMS)
[10:36:44] <delewis> we had some EMS software that was nothing more than Oracle+middleware.
[10:36:52] <delewis> and the vendor of it would *only* do HP-UX.
[10:36:59] <quasi> cmihai: that changed in their latest release
[10:37:08] <Teknomancer> i don't know what zones are even, something to do with networking i suppose... didn't bother reading it, don't need any of that stuff.
[10:37:08] <delewis> so we had one rack of HP gear, and the rest IBM and Dell in the datacenters.
[10:37:10] <cmihai> quasi: you mean 11i v3? Meh
[10:38:07] <cmihai> Most changes were storage related...
[10:38:18] <cmihai> Veritas Cluster FS, NFS4, multipath, etc
[10:38:24] <Teknomancer> ok i'm  debugging some driver, if i do "sync" before it hangs the entire kernel, my chances of ZFS bugging about corrupt files is minimal right ?
[10:38:50] <Teknomancer> i hope sync really syncs :P
[10:38:53] <delewis> ZFS has an intent log.
[10:38:54] <quasi> cmihai: I'm no good at remembering numbers, but my friend who is an hp-sux fanboy was pretty hyped till I told him all of that had been in solaris for a couple of years (minus the veritas)
[10:39:22] * delewis attempts to parse "hp-ux" and "fanboy"
[10:39:23] <Tempt> delewis: ZILOG, they're calling it. Perhaps it has a hidden Z80?
[10:39:31] <delewis> Tempt, :-)
[10:39:39] <Tempt> I know a couple of HPUX fanboys.
[10:39:48] <delewis> I don't think its a DEC Rainbow.
[10:39:53] <quasi> delewis: he's an odd guy, but he really likes hp-sux
[10:39:59] <cmihai> Well, I'm a regular HP-UX admin, can't say I like the thing much.
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[10:40:03] <delewis> how long is his PATH?
[10:40:04] <Teknomancer> Tempt:  they must be from HP
[10:40:09] <Tempt> They love to bang on about Superdomes being better than E25Ks.
[10:40:10] <cmihai> Sure, it's nice, but it's behind Solaris and AIX in so many ways...
[10:40:12] <Tempt> And they aren't from HP ...
[10:40:39] <delewis> well, if its at least as good as OpenServer/UnixWare, its better than Linux, IMO.
[10:40:41] <Tempt> Every time I use HPUX it reminds me of the early nineties
[10:40:50] <Teknomancer> oh heh... 4 of my friends are in HP, not related to HP-sux though,
[10:40:55] * quasi has been doing his best to kill off itanics lately - http://soulfood.dk/archives/2007/08/05/T23_20_11/index.html
[10:40:57] <Tempt> delewis: It's a real UNIX, so of course it's better.
[10:41:11] <delewis> the kernel was written in PASCAL, though..
[10:42:12] <Tempt> Huh? Got a source for that one?
[10:43:02] <Teknomancer> BeOS > HP-sux :P
[10:43:34] <delewis> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-UX
[10:43:41] <cmihai> Heh, not Pascal pascal
[10:43:48] <delewis> they had a modified Pascal that allowed for low-level-type stuff.
[10:43:51] <cmihai> Pascal based language with low level stuff
[10:43:52] <cmihai> yeah
[10:44:06] <Teknomancer> hily unwanted, why not just use C?
[10:44:07] <Tempt> Amazing.
[10:44:31] <Tempt> If they open-sourced it, perhaps there would be a Pascal revival?
[10:44:54] <delewis> I think the Pascal bits are long gone.
[10:44:55] <Tempt> Actually, thinking of pascal, does anyone have the old SPARCompiler pascal compiler?
[10:44:56] <Teknomancer> Turbo Pascal was func
[10:44:57] <delewis> but I could be wrong.
[10:44:59] <Teknomancer> fun
[10:45:10] <Tempt> Turbo Pascal (DOS era) made programming fun for everyone.
[10:45:15] <cmihai> Teknomancer: Pascal is still pretty much alive, and I don't mean Delphi
[10:45:20] <Tempt> Nice IDE, easy language, good libraries
[10:45:23] <cmihai> Teknomancer: check out FPC
[10:45:30] <Tempt> easy to inline ASM for speed.
[10:45:49] <Tempt> FPC would be nice, but pretty much non-existant for Solaris.
[10:46:05] <cmihai> http://www.freepascal.org/
[10:46:06] <Teknomancer> Free Pascal Compiler,i guess someone ported it to zeta sometime back
[10:46:07] <cmihai> Teknomancer: it works on Solaris
[10:46:10] <Teknomancer> should be very portable then
[10:46:16] <Teknomancer> ah k
[10:46:31] <cmihai> It's a Tier 2 platform though.
[10:46:52] <Tempt> x86 only
[10:47:28] <cmihai> delewis: so, did you get to test AIX 6.1 beta?
[10:47:33] <delewis> nope
[10:47:42] <cmihai> Silly management wouldn't let me pillage the server ;P
[10:47:47] <delewis> POWER4 and greater only. If you boot it on a POWER3, you'll get an error message saying that.
[10:47:58] <cmihai> delewis: yeah, I am aware of that :P
[10:48:12] <Tempt> I can't believe there are more people interesting to Linux/SPARC freepascal than Solaris/SPARC.
[10:48:17] <cmihai> Oh well, I really would have liked to try the DTrace clone
[10:48:41] <cmihai> Tempt: hey, I tried getting help on #ppc64 once
[10:48:42] <delewis> I figured they'd still have POWER3 support and just failed to mention POWER3, because the bulk of customers have replaced their POWER3 systems with newer gear by now.
[10:48:49] <Tempt> I nearly bought a PowerPC based thinkpad once.
[10:48:54] <cmihai> Tempt: I was sadly mistaken... in thinking it meant AIX :P
[10:49:02] <delewis> Tempt, a.k.a. a Tadpole.
[10:49:11] <cmihai> It was a Linux devel chan bah
[10:49:14] <Tempt> Looked like a thinkpad ...
[10:49:23] <delewis> Tadpole did most of the R&D behind the PowerPC Thinkpads.
[10:49:31] <Tempt> Still looked cute.
[10:49:36] <delewis> if you look at the first PowerPC Thinkpad it looks like a SPARCbook.
[10:49:43] <cmihai> Tempt: there were PPC based Tadpoles... Thinkpads even... but they're pretty slow
[10:49:47] <cmihai> 100Mhz or so stuff iirc
[10:49:53] <delewis> 603s
[10:49:56] <Tempt> I wouldn't expect performance, just fun value.
[10:49:58] <delewis> you can run AIX 4.2.1 on them :-)
[10:50:00] <Tempt> I like collecting odd machines.
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[10:50:12] <delewis> those were pre-OpenBoot days, too.
[10:50:17] <Tempt> I wonder what became of my old MIPS M/120.
[10:50:24] <delewis> IBM used some funky firmeware up until 1997 or so.
[10:50:33] <Tempt> With the wierd dual-personality RISC/os UNIX.
[10:50:38] <delewis> nowhere near as nice as OpenBoot.
[10:51:06] <Teknomancer> debugging again, crossing my fingers
[10:51:37] <delewis> I've yet to find another firmware that holds a candle to OpenBoot.
[10:52:45] <Teknomancer> phew didn't hang this time :)
[10:53:20] * Tempt downloads the old solaris/sparc port of fpc for shit 'n' giggles.
[10:55:54] <venkatesh> hi, if I have 'include depend' in the Makefile, can 'depend' be a target?  its instruction is cc -xM1 *.c > depend.. I'm moving this Makefile from Linux to snv_b60
[10:58:54] <Teknomancer> hi venkatesh :)
[10:59:07] <venkatesh> hi Teknomancer
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[12:18:57] <richlowe> mornin' alanbur.
[12:19:04] <alanbur> morning
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[12:38:25] <asyd> \_o<
[12:38:58] <quasi> hey hey asyd
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[12:51:48] <jmcp> gday gday
[12:52:00] <richlowe> hey jmcp
[12:53:09] <jmcp> hi richlowe, one-n-all
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[12:55:40] <Gekkko> Ein!
[12:55:43] <Gekkko> Hi :)
[12:56:26] <jmcp> hi Gekkko
[12:57:13] <Gekkko> http://apcmag.com/6859/dells_open_source_push_hampered_by_drivers
[12:57:14] <Gekkko> lol./
[12:57:36] <dlg> Gekkko: whats so funny?
[12:57:48] <Gekkko> truth is funny.
[12:58:25] <dlg> uhuh
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[12:59:41] <Gekkko> goddamn it
[12:59:51] <Gekkko> the Asus eee just went up to US$300 from US$200
[12:59:57] <Gekkko> too much demand >_>
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[13:15:53] <quasi> eee?
[13:16:02] <Tempt> You really thought it would sell for $US200?
[13:16:03] <Tempt> Dreamer.
[13:16:10] <Tempt> The low price is a teaser to build interest.
[13:16:17] <Gekkko> I know.
[13:16:26] <Gekkko> People gotta have a dream.
[13:16:37] <Gekkko> How goes wireless on OpenSolaris? Easy?
[13:16:56] <cmihai> dladm(1M)
[13:17:17] <Gekkko> ?
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[13:17:34] <Triskelios> nwam!
[13:17:45] <cmihai> Gekkko: you asked about wireless.
[13:17:54] <Gekkko> so what's dladm lol
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[13:18:35] <cmihai> Read the damn manpage... that's what 1M means, section 1M :-)
[13:18:51] <cmihai> It pretty much absoletes wificonfig...
[13:19:12] <Tempt> Unbelievable.
[13:19:22] <Tempt> Give 'em a man page, and even tell which section of the manual, and you still get blank looks.
[13:19:57] <Gekkko> I don't have OpenSolaris yet
[13:19:58] <Gekkko> >_>
[13:20:02] <Tempt> The correct question, of course, was "wifi is oh noes hard, will somebody configure it for meez"
[13:20:04] <jmcp> Gekkko: docs.sun.com is your friend
[13:20:05] <cmihai> It's not spoonfeeding they want, it's glucose I.V.s :-)
[13:20:14] * Gekkko goes to docs.sun.com
[13:20:34] <Tempt> And OpenSolaris is free, so grab it, install it, use it, live it and kick a penguin. Today.
[13:20:39] <WickedWicky> Tempt: in a good mood are we?
[13:20:49] <cmihai> docs.sun.com has pdf manpages...
[13:20:57] <Gekkko> Tempt: It comes in the mail in 3 weeks
[13:20:57] <WickedWicky> yes! and they kick ass!
[13:21:07] <Gekkko> 3gb will take longer to download than that >_>
[13:21:08] <WickedWicky> why wait for the media?
[13:21:09] <WickedWicky> just download it
[13:21:10] <WickedWicky> go go go
[13:21:19] <Gekkko> nein.
[13:21:24] <WickedWicky> warum nicht?
[13:21:30] <cmihai> Gekkko: unless you're on dial up.... takes about 20 minutes to donwload SXCE :P
[13:21:35] <cmihai> They have akamai mirrors everywhere
[13:21:38] <Tempt> Hmmm
[13:21:43] <Gekkko> cmihai: 20kb/s.
[13:21:45] <Tempt> Took at least 45 minutes last time I grabbed it.
[13:21:47] <Triskelios> Gekkko: if you're using the demo kit it's probably still 6-9 months out of date
[13:21:48] <Gekkko> and it gets slower.
[13:21:57] <Tempt> Get a new ISP.
[13:22:04] <Gekkko> No shit lol.
[13:22:08] <Gekkko> Can't yet >_>
[13:22:13] <Gekkko> nothing but Telstra here right now.
[13:22:14] <cmihai> So ask a friend or do it at work
[13:22:17] <Gekkko> TPG comes in 3 months.
[13:22:19] <Tempt> yawn
[13:22:23] <Tempt> "Nothing but Telstra".
[13:22:31] <Tempt> Where are you? Someone on satellite bandwidth?
[13:22:35] <Gekkko> no
[13:22:40] <Gekkko> in a bad spot for internet
[13:22:43] <Gekkko> Penrith.
[13:22:44] <Tempt> No DSL?
[13:22:51] <Gekkko> yes DSL
[13:23:04] <Gekkko> but Optus doesn't service the area any more
[13:23:07] <Gekkko> and the others aren't here yet.
[13:23:09] <Gekkko> >_>
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[13:23:17] <Tempt> Well, that gives you a lot of choice. Just because they're using Telstra's CMUX hardware doesn't mean you don't get choice of bandwidth provider.
[13:23:21] <Gekkko> 3 months and we get ADSL2.
[13:23:30] <Gekkko> then I'll be happy.,
[13:23:40] <Gekkko> if they fuck with me with their fault codes...
[13:23:52] <Gekkko> I'll stab me an indian call centre.
[13:23:54] <Gekkko> >_>
[13:24:08] <Tempt> Yawn.
[13:24:15] <Tempt> I love the way people blame everything on Telstra.
[13:24:23] <Tempt> I had my ISP try to blame things on Telstra. That was funny.
[13:24:30] <WickedWicky> I dont even know who telstra is
[13:24:43] <jmcp> WickedWicky: the almost-monopoly telco in Australia
[13:24:44] <Tempt> WickedWicky: Telstra is Australia's incumbent ISP.
[13:24:45] <LeftWing> WickedWicky: They were once an Institution called Telecom.
[13:24:57] <WickedWicky> I see
[13:24:57] <LeftWing> Now, not so much.
[13:25:01] <Gekkko> I just don't like how they don't give me what I pay for
[13:25:04] <Gekkko> I pay for 1.5mbit
[13:25:07] <Gekkko> I'm getting 20kb/s
[13:25:13] <Gekkko> because they fucked the system.
[13:25:22] <Gekkko> when they upgraded the billing system the fucked the internals.
[13:25:26] <cmihai> From what you're saying it looks more like they're the _incompetent_ ISP :_)
[13:25:28] <Gekkko> it says on the outside ive got the right plan
[13:25:31] <Tempt> Nope.
[13:25:33] <Tempt> He's talking out his arse.
[13:25:35] <Gekkko> on the inside i have a plan with a 6gb limit that doesnt exist
[13:25:45] <Gekkko> No, I'm dead serious.
[13:25:50] <Gekkko> I've phoned them, emailed them repeatedly.
[13:25:56] <Gekkko> they're like "We don't know wtf is wrong."
[13:26:15] <Gekkko> they always threaten the $60 callout fee.
[13:26:26] <Tempt> Then you're not talking to them properly.
[13:26:37] <Gekkko> How am I meant to talk
[13:26:44] <Tempt> If you billing/plan setup is incorrect, they can fix it without a callout fee.
[13:26:57] <Gekkko> Yes, but they say there's nothing wrong with teh plan
[13:27:06] <Tempt> If you're just getting shite performance and you think the problem might be misconfiguration, ask for a tunnel reset and they'll clear your session and rebuild it.
[13:27:19] <Gekkko> how long will that take?
[13:27:22] <jmcp> Gekkko: of course there's something wrong with it - you're not sending them enough money
[13:27:31] <oxygene> heh
[13:27:47] <Gekkko> lol jmcp, isn't $70 a month for a 12gb cap enough.
[13:27:50] <Tempt> They'll put in the tunnel reset into the service queue and it'll hit SOMBE overnight and be provisioned at some point.
[13:27:55] <Tempt> It'll drop your session for 5 to 10 minutes.
[13:28:02] <Gekkko> k
[13:28:05] <Gekkko> I'll request it now
[13:28:09] <jmcp> Gekkko: surely you've been around for the mere 5 seconds that you need to realise that Telstra charges like it's going out of fashion
[13:28:23] <Gekkko> I don't pay for it.
[13:28:26] <Gekkko> not my problem.
[13:28:28] <Tempt> He and the other 60% or whatever or broadband users suck it up.
[13:28:32] <Tempt> Pays for infrastructure.
[13:28:44] <Tempt> You should thank him for paying for the hardware.
[13:28:51] <LeftWing> They're like the Pokies-players of the ISP world, it would appear.
[13:29:00] <jmcp> Tempt: my access is going directly via optus
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[13:30:27] <cmihai> I can't shake the feeling the Gnome in SXCE 69 is a bit woobly :-]
[13:30:39] <cmihai> I close down Gnome Chess and it kills X... hehe
[13:30:52] <trochej> And you call it a bit? :)
[13:31:07] <cmihai> trochej: well, it failed to start...
[13:31:18] <cmihai> After install.. had to kick fc-cache into shape
[13:32:19] <cmihai> Let's see if it happens again :-0)
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[13:33:01] <cmihai> Well, that sucked.
[13:33:11] <cmihai> Every time I exit gnome chess, X dies hehe
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[13:33:42] <trochej> :)
[13:34:13] <Tempt> jmcp: Oh, I'm with internode on an internode DSLAM
[13:34:22] <cmihai> Can someone check that for me?
[13:34:27] <Tempt> jmcp: But I know who maintains the nice tidy exchange that my hardware is sitting in.
[13:34:30] <jmcp> Tempt: good for you
[13:34:31] <cmihai> SXCE 69, gnome, glchess? :-)
[13:34:42] <cmihai> Heh?
[13:34:48] <jmcp> apparently the exchange that I'm in has optus kit down one end and telstra down the other
[13:34:53] <cmihai> It didn't kill X when I ran it under screen / truss from a gnome-terminal.
[13:35:35] <Tempt> jmcp: Having worked with the management systems behind Telstra's DSL network, I have a little more appreciation for what goes into it, and having seen the network infrastructure behind it, I have a little more patience.
[13:35:37] <Gekkko> Tempt: should I email tech support or accounts?
[13:36:03] <cmihai> Oh, net, it only kills X when ran from the shortcut
[13:36:10] <Tempt> Gekkko: You should sort your plan issues (if you're on the wrong cap or whatever) with accounts, and log a support call for a tunnel reset.
[13:36:31] <Gekkko> damn, I hate calling
[13:36:36] <Gekkko> I don't like sitting on hold for an hour >_>
[13:36:50] <Tempt> Get a speakerphone
[13:37:10] <Gekkko> My complaint still remains valid, I don't like waiting
[13:37:11] <Gekkko> lol
[13:37:18] <Cyrille> so that everyone in the office can enjoy the four seasons or whatever it is they use for holding music.
[13:37:21] <Gekkko> and it's not cheap >_>
[13:37:26] <Tempt> Remember, if you're getting a shite connection and lack of reliability, the magic phrase is "tunnel reset". If that doesn't fix it, try different CPE
[13:37:50] <Tempt> Calling Telstra is a local call. Cough up the fucking twenty cents.
[13:37:53] <cmihai> Now that's one odd bloody bug
[13:38:00] <jmcp> Tempt: you might need to explain what CPE stands for
[13:38:24] <cmihai> Why would a program ran from a shortcut kill Gnome?
[13:38:45] <Tempt> Customer Premises Equipment; in this case; your cheapskate DSL modem/router.
[13:38:54] <Gekkko> it's not a cheap modem.
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[13:38:58] <Gekkko> I bought a goddamn netgear >_>
[13:39:06] <Gekkko> I threw out the Speedtouch crap ages ago.
[13:39:07] <jmcp> not just price, but also quality
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[13:39:13] <Tempt> As I said, your cheapskate DSL modem/router.
[13:39:24] <oxygene> cmihai: different environment variables?
[13:39:27] <Gekkko> There's nothing wrong with the router I have.
[13:39:32] <Gekkko> I used to get 160kb/s.
[13:39:56] <Tempt> If I was still there, I'd look up your line in XDM, but I'm not, so I can't.
[13:41:13] <oxygene> netgear - those devices seem  to blow pixie dust into the wire - at least that's how they behave here: more issues over time until they break
[13:43:40] <Tempt> They tend to use cheap power supplies that don't deliver enough current, and everything goes down hill as they age.
[13:44:08] <cmihai> oxygene: nope, just tried.
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[13:44:19] <cmihai> oxygene: any shortcut to glchess will kill X when I quit glchess
[13:44:27] <cmihai> oxygene: glchess ran without a shorcut works fine.
[13:44:30] <Tempt> The winning modem for the Australian market is the Speedtouch 536, and preferably do the routing in a router, not a modem.
[13:44:31] <oxygene> cmihai: how about glxgears?
[13:45:23] <cmihai> What about it?
[13:45:41] <cmihai> glchess isn't GL in Solaris, it's compiled without GL support.
[13:45:47] <oxygene> ah, okay
[13:46:01] <cmihai> Oh, that's odd.g
[13:46:11] <cmihai> glxgears doesn't work in SXCE 69, worked in 68... NVIDIA card too.
[13:47:03] <cmihai> nvidia-settings crashes on the opengl tab too
[13:47:13] <Pietro_S> cmihai: did you reinstall nvidia driver after upgrade?
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[13:47:25] <dustman> lo
[13:47:29] <cmihai> Pietro_S: erm, no
[13:47:35] <cmihai> Pietro_S: this is SXCE 69, comes with NVIDIA drivers.
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[13:47:44] <cmihai> LU from SXCE 68.
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[13:48:08] <dustman> i'd like to report a bug on solaris 10 installation but got lost in their report scheme
[13:48:38] <cmihai> Anyway, can soneone with NVIDIA and SXCE 69 check if glx stuff works?
[13:48:41] <dustman> which category install bugs fall into?
[13:49:00] <richlowe> it'd depend on where the bug was, but I don't think most of them are visible.
[13:49:06] <Pietro_S> cmihai: I'm still unsure if sxce include 64-bit nvidia driver, but I always reinstall nvidia driver after LU
[13:49:09] <richlowe> consolidation/install is probably a good bet to get it triaged into the right spot
[13:49:22] <cmihai> # modinfo | grep nv 77 fffffffff7a71000 50fcc8  54   1  nvidia (nvidia %I% Jun 27 2007 21:49:43)
[13:49:41] <cmihai> Pietro_S: because you want to or you HAVE to?
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[13:49:57] <richlowe> cmihai: I sure hope that's a thinko, and the %I% shouldn't be there, rather than it being delivered while checked out
[13:50:37] * Tempt downloads SXCE for ... shock ... x86
[13:50:46] <Pietro_S> cmihai: because in some old build I have to ... habit is strong metal shirt ;-)
[13:50:59] <cmihai> richlowe: what?
[13:51:14] <LeftWing> Tempt: EWRNGPLTFRM?
[13:51:14] <dlg> richlowe: itd be funny if there was some object code before it that was %I% in ascii that had been replaced instead
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[13:51:38] <cmihai> richlowe: what do you mean by "thinko", that's a paste.
[13:51:48] <richlowe> cmihai: on the part of the developers, not you
[13:51:52] <cmihai> Oh :-)
[13:51:54] <BatonT> is snv_b70 far off?
[13:52:00] <richlowe> it's a DE build.
[13:52:02] <richlowe> so who knows?
[13:52:11] <richlowe> "Further than it would normally be" is practically certain
[13:52:47] <jmcp> BatonT: 70 closed yesterday
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[13:53:03] <Tempt> LeftWing: Getting over 1800kbyte/sec on the download too
[13:53:10] <Pietro_S> cmihai: also I think that on nvidia website is latest driver
[13:53:25] <BatonT> jmcp: so about another week or so till the ISOs are available?
[13:53:26] <LeftWing> Tempt: Node > Telstra? ;P
[13:53:33] <jmcp> BatonT: I'd figure on 2 weeks
[13:53:36] <richlowe> jmcp: hrm, that's not as bad as I'd expected.
[13:53:44] <Tempt> LeftWing: Probably.
[13:53:51] <jmcp> richlowe: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/onnv_schedule.txt has a one week gap - typo, I think
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[13:54:20] <richlowe> jmcp: don't see it.
[13:54:33] <jmcp> richlowe: check the close/start dates for 70 and 71
[13:54:42] <richlowe> that's two weeks
[13:55:23] <jmcp> right you are
[13:55:27] <jmcp> sorry, looked at the wrong columns
[13:55:30] <jmcp> anyway ....
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[13:59:07] <cmihai> Well, that fixed it.
[13:59:29] <cmihai> Installed NVIDIA-Solaris-x86-100.14.11.run from nvidia.com && rebooted.
[13:59:35] <cmihai> # modinfo| grep nv 77 fffffffff7a71000 7d4880  54   1  nvidia (nvidia %I% Jun 13 2007 17:06:08)
[13:59:43] <cmihai> %I% still there though, but glx works
[14:00:42] <jmcp> cmihai: that's because nvidia seems unable to remember to "sccs delta filename.c" before building packages
[14:00:50] <cmihai> heh
[14:01:00] <richlowe> jmcp: I'd wondered if it wasn't actually in SCCS and they %I% is cargo cult
[14:01:04] * richlowe wouldn't exactly be shocked
[14:01:08] <richlowe> s/they/the/
[14:01:09] <jmcp> quite possible
[14:01:35] <cmihai> Oh well, point is NVIDIA is broken by default on SXCE 69. At least for me.
[14:01:44] <richlowe> I blame alanc.
[14:01:47] <richlowe> (but only because it's fun)
[14:01:58] <jmcp> and easy
[14:02:08] <cmihai> Wasn't he the one we blamed for Intel 3d stuff not working?
[14:02:27] <JWheeler> hey jmcp, I had a chance to read through your guid slideshow :) very detailed, but well illustrated. Good job
[14:02:54] <jmcp> JWheeler: thankyou
[14:03:01] <jmcp> did I leave you with more questions?
[14:03:04] * JWheeler confesses that most was over his head.
[14:03:06] <cmihai> glchess shortcuts still kill X though, that's pretty funny.
[14:03:12] <JWheeler> but I did learn some things that were at my level :)
[14:03:17] <jmcp> JWheeler: cool!
[14:03:45] <richlowe> jmcp: did you touch on the devid stuff in there?
[14:03:46] * richlowe can't recall
[14:03:53] <jmcp> indeed I do
[14:03:55] <JWheeler> bearing in mind that the slides were no doubt just references, I'm sure I would have picked up more had I actually been at the lecture :)
[14:04:12] <jmcp> I've only delivered it once so far
[14:04:22] <hile_> jmcp - i passed your GUID blog entry along to the SAN team at work
[14:04:32] <jmcp> and I'm writing a paper for it too - for osdc2007, hopefully
[14:04:35] <Pietro_S> cmihai: that's strange, when I did LU from 65 to 69 glchess worked well
[14:04:51] <jmcp> hile_: cool! please get them to leave comments on the blog if they have questions / likes / dislikes
[14:05:04] <hile_> certainly
[14:05:05] <hile_> you saw mine
[14:05:07] <cmihai> Pietro_S: 68 to 69, glchess works fine, it's just shortcuts. Any kind of Gnome shortcut to glchess kills X when I exit.
[14:05:19] <jmcp> hile_: yup, and it got through my approval mechanism too :)
[14:05:38] <cmihai> That, and the fact they haven't managet to fix the XOrg Numluck / Control Backspace bug for like 2 years now :P
[14:05:45] <Pietro_S> cmihai: but for games usin SDL GL, it needs to reinstall sdl from SFE
[14:05:57] <cmihai> You know, Control Backspace kills X instead of Control Alt Backspace (XOrg, Num Lock off) :-\
[14:06:09] <richlowe> should only be with numlock on.
[14:06:18] <cmihai> Oh, right, ON.
[14:06:21] <richlowe> well, not "Should".
[14:06:22] <richlowe> but. :)
[14:06:51] <cmihai> Heh, this would be pretty painfull if I didn't use screen / opera :P
[14:06:52] <richlowe> 6404762 claims to be fixed in snv_71 this time.
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[14:15:20] <oxygene> richlowe: this time for real? ;)
[14:15:26] <richlowe> no idea.
[14:15:47] <JWheeler> you have to wonder how it's not picked up in QA.... that's a pretty major bug
[14:16:10] <richlowe> depending on how fast you type, or whether you use apps that bind ctrl+bs, it's not so easy to tell what you actually did.
[14:16:12] <JWheeler> MindDrive, you, I suppose _I_ never have numlock on... my keyboard doesn't really use it
[14:16:33] <JWheeler> that's true I guess
[14:16:54] <JWheeler> case in point, somehow I just tabbed MindDrive out of "mind you"... weird... must be getting late!
[14:17:08] <Doc> hmm.. Sun has extended the EOSL date on the U2/U10/U60/U80/EX000 by another year
[14:17:17] <Tempt> cool.
[14:17:24] <Tempt> I want maintenance on my Ultra-2.
[14:17:26] <Tempt> heh.
[14:18:01] <Doc> i'm still pissed that i threw out the original www.netscape.com.au
[14:18:09] <Doc> although that was a U1, not a U2
[14:18:49] <Doc> someone is going to sue sun over EOSL dates at some stage
[14:19:00] <Tempt> Why?
[14:19:12] <Tempt> As long as they keep supporting people's hardware, I'm sure everyone will remain happy.
[14:19:21] <richlowe> support staff claiming stress and emotional damage? :)
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[14:19:38] <Doc> because i know multiple companies that have bought new hardware simply because sun was going to EOSL them
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[14:20:06] <Doc> E3000 was originally slated for EOSL in May 06 from memory - now it's going to be Dec 08
[14:20:13] <JWheeler> I know this isn't #solaris, but does anyone know if solaris 8 is meant to be able to bulid 64-bit binaries with gcc? Someone once mentioned to me that it will never work on x86, as solaris 8 never supported x86-64 (fair enough!), but I'm trying to go for -mpcu=ultrasparc -m64, and failing. Rather then spending hours only to find that was never meant to work, does anyone have any experience?
[14:20:48] <Doc> what version of GCC?
[14:21:19] <JWheeler> 3.4.5 (blastwave)
[14:21:35] <Tempt> The thing is, I know there will still be E3000s crankin' along in December 2008.
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[14:25:33] <delewis> most shops have retired them to development systems by now, I'd hope.
[14:25:36] * Berny knows of some sparcstations 20 still hoping around busily
[14:25:39] <delewis> I do own a lot of US-II gear, though.
[14:25:50] <delewis> or have friends that do.
[14:25:51] <Gekkko> ttyl guys
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[14:26:39] <delewis> so should the mentioned gear be EOSL, will Solaris still have platform support for it?
[14:27:25] <Berny> yuck why is powerwares solaris ups management thingie always killing dtwm in a ssgd session?
[14:28:04] <Tempt> Sure, the hardware support will stay until there is a good reason for moving it out.
[14:28:18] <delewis> good.
[14:28:19] <Tempt> sun4m stayed past EOSL
[14:28:51] <delewis> there's a non-profit around here that I plan on pushing E4500s/E420Rs to at some point.
[14:29:16] <delewis> it doesn't make sense for them to buy new Sun hardware considering their current hardware, and I would like to see them going the Sun route.
[14:29:20] <dlg> am i that non profit?
[14:29:39] <quasi> delewis: and you're not afraid they will go broke over the power bill?
[14:29:50] <delewis> power is cheap in TN.
[14:30:10] <delewis> and considering how many peecees they'll be able to consolidate onto a single E4500, it'd probably even out.
[14:30:32] <delewis> right now, they're mostly using Linux on whiteboxen and Dells.
[14:31:10] <quasi> ah, power guzzlers
[14:31:27] <delewis> hey, I'm not the only one that runs old, big hardware around here.
[14:31:30] * delewis looks at Tempt
[14:32:08] <Tempt> Vroom! Vroom!
[14:32:57] <quasi> well, I suppose as long as it runs s10+
[14:33:00] <Tempt> Probably get second hand US-III machines for cheap enough that 420s aren't worth the hassle. 280Rs...
[14:33:07] <Tempt> Or second hand v880s ;)
[14:33:22] <delewis> E280Rs are still fairly pricey compared to an E420R.
[14:33:40] <delewis> you can get a loaded E420R (4x450MHz USII procs and 4GB memory) for 300USD.
[14:33:46] <Tempt> pair of 4500s and cluster them.
[14:33:58] <delewis> that's the plan.
[14:34:04] <delewis> well, one of them anyway.
[14:34:04] <Tempt> and parts for those machines are plentiful.
[14:34:09] <delewis> yep.
[14:34:27] <delewis> I mentioned the fact they could get a loaded E4500 with 14 procs and 14GB of memory for 1000USD and they went crazy over it.
[14:34:36] <delewis> as most of their workloads are memory-bound, not CPU.
[14:34:44] <Tempt> Excellent. Let the good times roll!
[14:34:56] <Tempt> Surely you can get an old 880 for that money in the US?
[14:35:20] <delewis> I've been looking around, but the cheapest I've seen a v880 is ~ 2000 USD with only 2x900MHz procs.
[14:35:28] <delewis> what's getting really cheap nowadays is the v480.
[14:35:45] <Tempt> Wow, the Australian market just won't pay for second hand Sun kit.
[14:35:50] <delewis> they're actually becoming quite affordable $2000 range vs. $4000 or more, which is what they were at a year ago.
[14:36:02] <Tempt> I've seen them start going for under $AU1000 lately with 4x750 and 8Gb RAM
[14:36:08] <delewis> Tempt, wow.
[14:36:12] <delewis> I'm jealous.
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[14:36:33] <Tempt> I've been thinking about buying a second 880
[14:36:37] <Tempt> Just to have plenty of spare parts
[14:36:50] <delewis> I think its more of a case that there's zero market for second-hand gear here, and you have a bunch of liquidators that have no clue about that and want some imaginary price in their head.
[14:37:02] <delewis> v480s look like very sexy systems, though.
[14:37:22] <Tempt> 480s are cute.
[14:37:24] <delewis> they're still slightly out of this non-profit's price range, though (they'll cringe at $2,000)
[14:37:26] <Tempt> But no hot-plug PCI.
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[14:38:19] <Tempt> If I didn't have to pay for power I'd run another 880 and cluster here.
[14:38:28] <delewis> 880s are nice systems.
[14:38:31] <edwardocallaghan> Hey Tempt !
[14:38:36] <delewis> they basically have a Photon in them, right?
[14:38:48] <edwardocallaghan> Hey delewis
[14:38:52] <jmcp> delewis: kinda-sorta
[14:39:04] <delewis> that's what I gathered from luxadm(1) anyway.
[14:39:17] <delewis> it seems to group whatever the v880 has with a Photon.
[14:39:21] <edwardocallaghan> Good news everyone; The OpenSolaris Magazine is a go
[14:39:30] <Tempt> Well, it isn't a photon, but it is a FCAL enclosure
[14:39:34] <Tempt> luxadm etc
[14:39:35] <delewis> ah.
[14:39:40] <delewis> not bad.
[14:39:40] <Tempt> Want me to pastebin some outputs for you?
[14:39:44] <Berny> osol mag? where
[14:39:48] <delewis> Tempt, sure.
[14:40:04] <edwardocallaghan> http://moonshine.opn4.org ; head over there in the coming days for a preview of whats to come :D
[14:40:20] <edwardocallaghan> I am still looking for more editors
[14:40:38] <Tempt> delewis: Doing that now. probe, display, etc.
[14:42:18] <Tempt> delewis: http://rafb.net/p/NznCd072.html
[14:43:19] <delewis> looks like the output on my Photon (though, less drives)
[14:43:27] <delewis> even the device (/dev/es/ses0) is the same.
[14:43:30] <Tempt> Yeah, only get 12 drives in the 880
[14:43:43] <Tempt> Solaris puts all "enclosure management" in /dev/es
[14:43:50] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: please let me know when you've got it ready to roll
[14:44:22] <edwardocallaghan> jmcp:Will do, thank you!
[14:44:30] <Tempt> delewis: Of course, the 480 has less drives.
[14:44:51] <edwardocallaghan> I am just sorting out the user grouping now
[14:44:52] <delewis> Tempt, yeah, but I'd push a Photon on them, too.
[14:45:00] <delewis> the v880 would kind of ellminate the need for that, though.
[14:45:09] <edwardocallaghan> But if you give me 10min I can give you a editors account :D
[14:45:19] <delewis> and in the end, the cost of an E4500+A5200 would probably compare to a decent v880 config.
[14:45:24] <delewis> which I hadn't though about.
[14:45:28] <delewis> s/though/thought/
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[14:46:11] <quasi> and the 880 fits a good pile of disks
[14:46:57] <delewis> probably load it up with 73GB disks.
[14:48:12] <edwardocallaghan> jmcp:READY :D - can you pm me some username and pass you would like
[14:48:33] <edwardocallaghan> sorry, and a email address
[14:50:25] <Tempt> delewis: E450 would as well
[14:50:40] <delewis> I'm not a fan of E450s.
[14:50:46] <WickedWicky> they're a bit big IMO
[14:50:47] <jmcp> they suck rocks
[14:50:55] <WickedWicky> they make great purple tables though
[14:50:56] <Tempt> nah man
[14:51:01] <Tempt> Lots of room for spindles
[14:51:04] <Tempt> four CPUs
[14:51:07] <Tempt> and lots of handy PCI slots
[14:51:12] <MousePad> Minibar fridge
[14:51:12] <delewis> what's the physical memory limit?
[14:51:17] <jmcp> 4g iirc
[14:51:23] <Tempt> One of the things I always run out of PCI slots
[14:51:28] <Tempt> I've run out in my 880
[14:51:31] <Tempt> I could use another couple
[14:51:34] <delewis> that's not bad, but I'd like a little higher.
[14:51:49] <Tempt> I use my E3000 as a side table next to the couch.
[14:52:17] <Tempt> That E3000 did such good service, I couldn't get rid of it. It lives on as furniture.
[14:52:35] <delewis> did you ever have the urge to lift the lid and throw an empty coke can in it? :-)
[14:52:43] <Tempt> heh, trash can
[14:52:47] <Tempt> I know what you mean.
[14:53:11] <Tempt> Use the disk bays for random storage space.
[14:53:18] <Tempt> I think there's a small box of IDPROMs in there.
[14:53:31] <Tempt> Probably all gone flat by now except for the one that hasn't been activated yet.
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[14:55:12] <delewis> didn't the E3000/E3500 have some sort of cable spool to run fibre to the internal enclosure?
[14:55:19] <delewis> I think I've seen it in pics.
[14:55:21] <Stric> yeah
[14:55:30] <Stric> at the triangle support on the back
[14:55:33] <delewis> yeah.
[14:55:50] <jmcp> yup
[14:55:50] <delewis> I always thought that looked sort of hack-ish. :-)
[14:55:54] <jmcp> tripped over it a few times
[14:55:56] <delewis> given they couldn'
[14:55:57] <delewis> er
[14:56:02] <delewis> couldn't bother to run the fibre internally.
[14:56:33] <edwardocallaghan> Who ever would like to be a editor ect.. could they please pm me ASAP as I don't always have the chance to get on here due to limited access to the internet :P
[14:57:31] <Tempt> The E3000 is SCSI
[14:57:40] <Tempt> The E3500 had the crazy spool of fibre.
[14:58:45] <delewis> interesting.
[14:58:46] <Stric> E3k still has the crazy spool, but for external stuff like SSAs
[14:59:03] <Tempt> Nope. The E3000 has the triangle, but it doesn't come with the plastic spools.
[14:59:26] <Tempt> The triangle is supposed to just provide some protection for your cables, since the E3000 wasn't designed to be racked.
[14:59:30] <Tempt> floor dweller
[14:59:43] <Tempt> and .. SSA .. the horror ;)
[15:00:33] <Stric> Tempt: our E3k had the spools..
[15:00:42] <Tempt> Wow.
[15:00:47] <Tempt> There you go.
[15:01:06] <Tempt> I always thought they were a funny looking machine.
[15:01:15] <jmcp> eeek
[15:01:18] <jmcp> not the SSA!!!!
[15:01:20] <Tempt> Still, mine did a lot of good service.
[15:01:30] <Tempt> jmcp: I used to have an SSA with 36Gb disks.
[15:01:39] <Tempt> jmcp: It was .. full of ... something.
[15:01:42] <jmcp> heat?
[15:01:49] <Tempt> I'd swear they filled those fuckers with lead somehow.
[15:01:51] <Tempt> So heavy!
[15:01:56] <Stric> whoa. 36G.. the ones we had were fitted with 1/2/4G disks ;)
[15:02:03] <Tempt> This was my SSA at home
[15:02:19] <Tempt> It had 10x9, 6x36, 6x18
[15:02:40] <Tempt> and was the cluster storage between an E3000 and an Ultra-2
[15:02:56] <Tempt> along with an A1000 with 6x146
[15:03:39] <jmcp> I really shouldn't diss the ssa and a1k too much
[15:03:48] <Doc> yes, you should
[15:04:37] <WickedWicky> lol
[15:04:53] <jmcp> WickedWicky: Doc and I know that the SSA and A1k have "form"
[15:05:09] <jmcp> bad, very bad, form
[15:05:31] <Doc> well, i do, but clearly you dont if you're saying you shouldnt "diss" them
[15:05:39] <jmcp> too much
[15:05:53] <jmcp> I'm more than happy to diss them, but not quite as much as other storage that Sun has sold
[15:09:27] <Tempt> *cough*boxhill*cough*35*cough*10*cough-cough*
[15:10:12] <jmcp> Tempt: Dot Hill, tyvm
[15:10:12] <Tempt> To be honest, I didn't have any hassles with either the SSA or the A1000 other than the sheer weight and ugliness of the SSA. Oh, and the needing an outage on an entire tray to replace one disk.
[15:10:23] <Tempt> jmcp: They used to be called Box Hill.
[15:10:28] <jmcp> Tempt: did you ever delete lun0 on the a1k?
[15:10:31] <Tempt> jmcp: And the products were even more SHITE.
[15:10:37] <Tempt> jmcp: Err, no, I didn't try to break it.
[15:10:41] <Doc> 3510's were great arrays
[15:10:45] <Doc> until something went wrong
[15:11:00] <jmcp> Tempt: nor did I. I just wanted to reconfigure it .... and came across this fatal error with the damned thing
[15:11:07] <Tempt> Doc: By "something went wrong" do you mean data corruption or crashes or not able access the interface?
[15:11:10] <jmcp> that and specifying a fqdn in /etc/hostname.*
[15:11:22] <Tempt> jmcp: I thought the loss of LUN 0 was recoverable somehow.
[15:11:32] <Doc> yeah, something like that
[15:11:35] <jmcp> yes, you had to re-set the array
[15:11:42] <jmcp> but it's not covered in the docs
[15:12:00] <Tempt> I've heard some *mighty* horror stories about the A1000s though. I've even heard some allege they ran Windows NT internally.
[15:12:13] <jmcp> no they didn't
[15:12:22] <Doc> let me tell you.. there are some real nice benefits to working for a company that sells 2 products
[15:12:31] <jmcp> Doc: you're just too soft
[15:12:32] <Doc> well, 3 now i suppose
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[15:12:42] <Tempt> I wonder what they did run. They did have an x86 CPU ...
[15:12:57] <jmcp> I know what they ran
[15:13:37] <richlowe> well, out with it then.
[15:13:40] <richlowe> we'll never tell. :)
[15:14:42] <jmcp> heh
[15:14:44] <Doc> i have the manuals somewhere that say what they ran
[15:14:47] <jmcp> yeah .... *I* believe you
[15:16:20] <Doc> bahwahwa... http://www.jetstar.com/jetMail/IntSale-QLD-01Aug07/index.htm
[15:16:26] <Doc> err.. wrong channel
[15:22:09] <timeless> hello jmcp, richlowe
[15:22:43] <jmcp> hi timeless
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[15:29:08] <edwardocallaghan> Right i'm off
[15:29:17] <Tempt> 'night
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[15:30:32] <edwardocallaghan> see ya Tempt :)
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[15:55:31] <Gekkko[PDA]> hey
[15:56:08] <Gekkko[PDA]> To Kill A Mockingbird is one hardass book, pg 36 in 1 hour >.>
[15:56:28] <Cyrille> is it written very small?
[15:56:40] <Gekkko[PDA]> quite
[15:57:00] <Tempt> it's the Japanese edition. He's sitting there with an english-japanese dictionary in one hand ...
[15:57:13] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol
[15:57:25] <Cyrille> so the title actually is "A laughing flight to terminate"?
[15:57:53] <Gekkko[PDA]> I had to reread half the slang
[15:58:03] <Gekkko[PDA]> and found a typ( >.>
[15:58:09] <Gekkko[PDA]> typo*...
[15:58:18] <Cyrille> file a bug.
[15:58:25] <Gekkko[PDA]> lol
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[16:42:26] <flyingparchment> "US customers press 1.  Canadian customers press 2."
[16:42:31] <flyingparchment> i'm neither, what do i press?
[16:42:40] <timeless> 2 for better service
[16:42:41] <flyingparchment> (apparently, buying anything from sun is fairly difficult)
[16:43:07] <richlowe> neither, and see if it punts to a human?
[16:43:20] <timeless> yeah, 0000000000000000 tends to work
[16:46:36] <BatonT> flyingparchment: thats what i heard..  but  guy i know was telling me how SUN were hassling him to buy stuff from them (to fill a tender)
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[16:46:51] <BatonT> mind you it was a government tender that was worth a bit...
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[16:48:14] <flyingparchment> oh, i'm sure it's easy if you want to give them a lot of money ;-)
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[17:12:24] <richlowe> mornin' stevel.
[17:13:38] <axisys> how do I fxi the bootable image of sol 10 w/o killing the whole OS
[17:13:58] <axisys> i think i can copy the installboot from CD .. but remember the exact steps
[17:14:05] <stevel> morning rich
[17:14:07] <axisys> do not remember that is
[17:15:08] <axisys> I get this
[17:15:09] <axisys> Boot device: /pci@1f,4000/scsi@3/disk@0,0  File and args:
[17:15:10] <axisys> Short disk read
[17:15:10] <axisys> The file just loaded does not appear to be executable.
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[17:47:48] <IamLordV1ldemort> Howdy
[17:47:57] <IamLordV1ldemort> Can anyone give me some solaris advice?
[17:48:19] <IamLordV1ldemort> I have a disk from an Ultra10 and I wanted to know if I can mount it from Schillix?
[17:49:01] <sickness> IamLordV1ldemort: not if it's ufs, you'll need another sparc system, because of the endianess...
[17:49:08] <IamLordV1ldemort> sickness: Ok
[17:49:08] <sickness> (afaik)
[17:49:20] <IamLordV1ldemort> sickness: I was hoping that there was a endian freidnly way.
[17:49:21] <IamLordV1ldemort> *sigh*
[17:49:22] <IamLordV1ldemort> Thanks
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[17:49:41] <sickness> IamLordV1ldemort: not on ufs, there is on zfs :/
[17:49:56] <IamLordV1ldemort> heh
[17:50:11] <IamLordV1ldemort> Yeah, well, life sucks, and then you have to find one file ona box with no backups =)
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[17:50:17] <aitiba> hi
[17:50:30] <IamLordV1ldemort> c'ya
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[17:50:50] <aitiba> I would like to start with opensolaris but with which one can I start?
[17:51:13] <cmihai> SXCE 69
[17:51:16] <cmihai> Follow the link.
[17:51:26] <cmihai> And yes, it has all the stuff SXCE has (developer tools)
[17:51:36] <aitiba> i'm a debian user 2 years ago
[17:51:43] <cmihai> whatever :-)
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[17:52:20] <cmihai> You'll probably want to keep the www.blastwave.org link in mind, it's pkg-get (3rd party open source software for Solaris, distributed in apt-get fashion)
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[17:53:32] <aitiba> cmihai, why not belenix ,indiana or nexenta?
[17:54:29] <cmihai> Because Belenix is just a LiveCD without much to offer, and very out of date...
[17:54:43] <cmihai> Indiana doesn't actually exist as a media set..
[17:54:48] <cmihai> And Nexenta is Ubuntu with an OpenSolaris kernel.
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[17:55:33] <cmihai> So Belenix / MarTux / Schillix aren't of much use.. apart from test LiveCD's to see if the hardware may be supported or something.
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[17:55:49] <aitiba> cmihai, to start I think tahat blenix is good to see how can work and the nexenta because a lot of program comes from GNU
[17:56:39] <cmihai> whatever
[17:57:59] <sbahra> So rude. :-/
[17:58:10] <sbahra> aitiba, in other words, try it out yourself and see :-)
[17:58:21] <aitiba> ok
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[17:59:02] <sbahra> aitiba, I personally use the Community Edition since I have this feeling that it'll be more likely up to date with regards to the kernel and they are the only officially supported for kernel builds iirc
[17:59:17] <aitiba> cmihai, sbahra thanks for the information
[18:02:38] <eboutilier_> cmihai: BeleniX has a HD installer now (though it's broken in the latest release). It's not out of date either, IMO.
[18:03:57] <cmihai> eboutilier_: look, compared to SXCE it is out of date and not of much use unless you really need a LiveCD.
[18:04:00] <axisys> any chance corrupting the OS when run this installboot /usr/platform/`uname -i`/lib/fs/ufs/bootblk \ /dev/rdsk/c1t0d0s0
[18:04:01] <delewis> anyone tried using kclient(1) on a recent Solaris Express release?
[18:04:09] <cmihai> You want to get into Solaris / OpenSolaris, use SXCE.
[18:04:18] <cmihai> You want a production system, use Solaris 10
[18:04:28] <cmihai> _with_ a support contract.
[18:04:40] <delewis> seems to be broken as its spurting out nonsense about the nfs/<host> principle already existing, which is impossible as a 'listprincs' on the kdc doesn't return it.
[18:05:52] <Triskelios> axisys: no, space is reserved for the boot record
[18:06:23] <delewis> oh, nevermind. the nfs/<host> princ goes in the client's keytab, but it says it already exists there as well.
[18:06:42] <delewis> so something funky is going with kclient(1) and the keytab.
[18:06:47] <WickedWicky> 2000024, that reads two million and twenty-four , right?
[18:06:48] <eboutilier_> Sure, I use SXCE too. I'm just saying that BeleniX has an HD installer and is kept up-to-date pretty wel
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[18:08:10] * WickedWicky wonders what kind of drugs certain coworkers are on
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[18:12:33] <WickedWicky> some of my coworkers say they dont want to use bind cause it will take an hour to load a zonefile with 1.700.000 records
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[18:12:51] <WickedWicky> I created a zone with 2.000.000 records and bind starts and serves within 10 seconds flat
[18:12:57] <WickedWicky> wtf
[18:15:30] <timeless> bind4, bind5, bind8, or bind9?
[18:15:33] <WickedWicky> bind9
[18:15:44] <sommerfeld> they must have tested on a system without enough physical memory to fit that zone
[18:16:10] <WickedWicky> only difference is I am testing it on a cheap ass Athlon 2400XP+ running opensolaris and they on a DL380 Dual xeon with 4GB memory running linux
[18:16:31] <timeless> same version o f bind9?
[18:16:32] <WickedWicky> I only have 3GB mem, my specs are way less than their lab server
[18:16:37] <WickedWicky> yes
[18:16:45] <WickedWicky> they're on crack
[18:16:48] <axisys> Triskelios: in other words bad idea? this is what I get when trying to boot from the disk http://rafb.net/p/YNFb1e19.html
[18:16:49] <WickedWicky> can't be something else
[18:16:54] <WickedWicky> or
[18:17:04] <WickedWicky> they just come with lame excuses to keep using powerDNS
[18:17:10] <axisys> Triskelios: oops misread your comment
[18:17:14] <sommerfeld> i hear that bind9 (unline older versions) uses threads.  is linux threading slowing them down?
[18:17:40] <WickedWicky> maybe, I say: reason the more to install opensolaris on that DL380 and redo the tests
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[18:19:48] <gdamore> good morning!
[18:19:52] <WickedWicky> heya
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[18:20:10] <Triskelios> yo garrett
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[18:20:24] <Triskelios> axisys: sounds more like a disk problem
[18:20:27] <WickedWicky> sommerfeld: I tried to reason with them today but all they told me is how they can only get bind working with certain hacks
[18:20:30] <WickedWicky> which they didnt want to elaborate on
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[18:30:39] <e^ipi> ahoy, tout le monde
[18:31:14] <WickedWicky> bon jour
[18:34:24] <e^ipi> how goes?
[18:35:49] <WickedWicky> good actually
[18:35:50] <WickedWicky> almost home
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[18:36:21] <e^ipi> home == ?
[18:36:34] <ofu> could I "stripe" one file over several pNFS-dataservers ?
[18:44:32] <WickedWicky> home, as in, not at work
[18:44:46] * WickedWicky is in the bus towards home, coming from work
[18:44:50] <WickedWicky> and how are you?
[18:48:16] <ofu> pnfsalloc seems to be exactly what I want
[18:48:31] <WickedWicky> bbl :)
[18:51:10] <e^ipi> i'm well...
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[18:53:01] * FireflyST is going to put in his laptop order today
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[19:21:01] <e^ipi> FireflyST: what're you picking up?
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[19:38:55] <e^ipi> well squeeze my balls and call me Sally... this machine isn't broken or unsupported, it just doesn't like CDRW's
[19:39:37] <WickedWicky> LOL
[19:39:53] <Triskelios> sounds broken to me =P
[19:39:54] <WickedWicky> well spank my butt and call me betty< that"s just weird innit
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[19:40:17] <e^ipi> Triskelios: it's quite an old machine
[19:40:31] <e^ipi> 2x600mhz P3
[19:40:33] <elektronkind> not as wierd as "strap on a ball gag and call me a dalek"
[19:40:38] <WickedWicky> kok
[19:40:40] <WickedWicky> lol
[19:43:50] * Triskelios looks over at the P2 with a CD-RW in the corner
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[19:44:48] <e^ipi> regardless, this machine only needs to boot CD #1, and it did that
[19:45:12] <e^ipi> which i was fighting with for a long time, until I made a real CDR of the thing
[19:47:21] <Triskelios> I'm still annoyed that our U5s refuse to boot DVDs
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[19:51:44] <palowoda> Triskelios: A U5 wasn't designed to handle the power of a DVD.
[19:53:25] <BatonT> ive seen a few old drives not be able to boot from rewritable CDs
[19:53:32] <BatonT> using cdr worked though
[19:53:58] <palowoda> Ah the good old days of crap hardware.
[19:54:02] <Triskelios> there are CD-ROM drives that won't read CD-RW at all
[19:54:24] <Triskelios> palowoda: were you being tongue-in-cheek or is the power draw really the problem?
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[19:55:06] <Pietro_S> hmm, does pkgtool install all subpackages of spec file? or does I need to specify what I want to install?
[19:55:15] <palowoda> Triskelios: I haven't measured the wattage lately.  Why is it a factor?
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[19:55:40] <Triskelios> palowoda: no, I was just considering your statement literally
[19:55:41] <laca> Pietro_S: it does
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[19:58:54] <palowoda> Triskelios: I didn't think a U5 is something that should be taken literally.
[19:59:15] <richlowe> the 'ultra' part certainly shouldn't be.
[19:59:22] <Triskelios> hah
[19:59:47] <FireflyST> e^ipi: a dell unfortunately, but my work is letting me get it through payroll deduction.  I've checked out the specs and it's sounding like it's all good with drivers and whatnot
[20:00:02] <FireflyST> e^ipi: for opensolaris of course
[20:00:17] <CIA-27> eschrock: 4687827 dumpadm should be more tolerant of a read-only /etc/dumpadm.conf, 6523156 putback for fork extensions missed libproc, 6581088 typo in libipmi.h, 6585258 zfs_rename() erroneously returns EZFS_CROSSTARGET, 6587130 sunoem LED commands don't work correctly
[20:00:18] <CIA-27> fw157321: 6584213 prtdiag -v doesn't reflect current status of warnings/failures, 6587384 prtdiag -v FRU status section does not show all frus, 6587389 prtdiag -v Formatting issues
[20:00:21] * Triskelios is going to be doing the IDE->SCSI drive swap in his U5 today
[20:06:11] <Pietro_S> laca: is there any documentation/draft about extended attributes in spec file for pkgbase?
[20:06:29] <Pietro_S> laca: for example some %maintainer ...
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[20:13:01] <laca> Pietro_S: hm.. no, but if you'd like to start writing one (;
[20:13:39] <laca> Pietro_S: but i don't think there's gonna be any special attributes compared to jds
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[21:00:28] <CIA-27> rs200217: 6549782 in.routed core dump in rtioctl
[21:00:29] <CIA-27> agiri: 6588026 Remove redundant fields in CM private data
[21:05:14] <elektronkind> I read that as "riot control"
[21:05:31] <elektronkind> OpenSolaris - now with riot control!
[21:05:54] <timeless> heh
[21:07:33] <sommerfeld> i just threw the gauntlet on sparc newboot.  hopefully that will stop a few riots.
[21:08:46] <e^ipi> ?
[21:18:33] <sommerfeld> currently case before PSARC - 2006/525
[21:18:40] <sommerfeld> proposal to use boot archives on sparc
[21:19:18] <axisys> when I boot from cdrom I get same error as from disk
[21:19:25] <axisys> The file just loaded does not appear to be executable.
[21:19:35] <axisys> its a new sol 10 11/06 from sun
[21:19:42] <axisys> also the dvd
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[21:24:17] <theRealballchalk> http://i19.tinypic.com/490ffxt.jpg
[21:25:46] <axisys> http://rafb.net/p/q0TU3a33.html
[21:25:59] <axisys> replaced the memories and still getting same error
[21:26:06] <axisys> with new timestamp after reboot
[21:26:08] <axisys> is it a bug
[21:26:18] <axisys> so much for predictive self-ehaling
[21:26:22] <axisys> healing that is
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[21:27:23] <WickedWicky> not trying to load Intel media by accident?
[21:27:25] <sommerfeld> there's an "fmadm repair" command you're supposed to run after swapping hardware
[21:28:00] <axisys> duh!
[21:28:05] <axisys> sommerfeld: just found that too
[21:28:53] <WickedWicky> how does that command work sommerfeld? Cause today I took two internal disks out of a V240 and put them in another V240 and it booted without any user intervention
[21:29:17] <sommerfeld> sorry, not enough context in my answer.
[21:29:49] <sommerfeld> if you swap hardware because fma told you to swap hardware, you may need to run "fmadm repair" to tell fma that you swapped hardware.
[21:30:05] <WickedWicky> aha
[21:30:12] <WickedWicky> thanks for explaining :)
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[21:35:20] <palowoda> Hmm case 525, looking at the arc site http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/caselog/2007/  a few more case to catch up on from 450.
[21:35:43] <palowoda> s/case/cases
[21:35:48] <sommerfeld> 2006/525 is not 2007/525
[21:36:07] <palowoda> Oh sorry missed that.
[21:36:15] <sommerfeld> it got assigned a case number last year but wasn't actually presented to us until last week
[21:36:25] <palowoda> A year ago though?
[21:38:16] <sommerfeld> an early proposal was filed in september 2006 but for whatever reason the submitter didn't actually bring it to the ARC until last week.
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[21:53:07] <solaara> hello
[21:53:56] <solaara> anyone can tell me if there is some possible way to install windows as vm on solaris?
[21:54:18] <solaara> vmware doesn't work on solaris
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[21:56:35] <Stric> qemu I guess
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[21:58:21] <solaara_> sorry... inet error
[21:59:17] <sommerfeld> solaara: there is work underway to support xen hardware virtualization (on new enough processors) but it's not done yet.
[21:59:42] <solaara_> hmm... i have older processor
[22:00:03] <SYS64738> where can I find some howto to liveupgrade from s10u3 to express ?
[22:01:53] <solaara_> hmm... here is my plan. i want to run solaris as my laptop's main system and under vm windows, linux. should i do it like that or tripleboot?
[22:03:03] <yatesy> i'm sure i read an article a few years old about vmware gonna be supported on solaris, i take it that never happened?!
[22:03:05] <yatesy> or was it purely to get solaris running as a guest?
[22:03:38] <SYS64738> there is no reason to install windows under vmware
[22:04:59] <SYS64738> if you need windows install it and then use other systems inside vmware windows versione
[22:05:34] <solaara_> SYS64738: so run solaris under windows?
[22:07:08] <SYS64738> otherwise use wine
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[22:32:47] <stevel> solaara_: win4solaris
[22:33:27] <solaara_> stevel: hmmm... do u have any exp with this?
[22:33:55] <stevel> nope
[22:34:35] <solaara_> i think it is a very new soft, isn't it?
[22:34:52] <solaara_> isn't win4solaris based on qemu?
[22:35:36] *** lisppaste3 has quit IRC
[22:35:55] * stevel shrugs
[22:36:04] <stevel> i know nothing about it other than that it might serve your needs
[22:36:33] <solaara_> ok, thanx
[22:37:11] <coffman> solaara_: win4solariis is like win4lin or win4bsd
[22:37:30] <coffman> solaara_: basd on qemu, with some extra stuff to make it smooth
[22:38:07] * coffman wonders if they give me a free lizens if i do positive marketing for them :P
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[22:38:15] <Speckal> hi all
[22:39:06] <solaara_> hmm... so basically taken, i could run qemu with windows instead buying win4solaris?
[22:39:14] <coffman> solaara_: qemu with kernel module (which is available for solaris) is also quite okay
[22:39:36] <coffman> solaara_: win4solaris got some nice extras like usb stuff and so on
[22:39:39] <Speckal> I've been hearing a lot about opensolaris.  atm, I'm using linux for desktop and freebsd for production/server needs.  I would like to hear you guys (the real users) say what you think opensolaris offers uniquely
[22:39:42] <coffman> better drivers, such
[22:40:02] <solaara_> coffman: hmmm... ok.thanx
[22:40:36] <coffman> Speckal: a not so crappy svr4 based unix with some advanced stuff like zfs, zones, fma etc
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[22:40:58] <solaara_> Speckal: i am planning to run opensolaris as my main desktop OS on laptop too....
[22:41:10] <Speckal> coffman:  why "not so crappy"?  anything specific?
[22:41:25] <coffman> i consider unix crappy, thats all :P
[22:41:29] <Speckal> solaara_:  "too" ?  where do you run o.s. now?
[22:41:55] <solaara_> Speckal: ?
[22:42:01] <coffman> but i run opensolaris on my laptop and my server as main os
[22:42:27] <solaara_> coffman: any problems with opensolaris on laptop?
[22:42:44] <coffman> for me there is only one place for my data, and thats zfs
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[22:43:05] <coffman> solaara_: well, the problems i have are problems of the bad hardware, not solaris
[22:43:17] <Speckal> coffman:  is it mature? stable? production-environment safe?  (switch to other side of spectrum)  is it fast? loaded with fun stuff? does it have game support? does wine and/or cedega work well on it?
[22:43:24] <coffman> solaara_: your laptops specs?
[22:44:28] <solaara_> coffman: amd64 3000+, 512ram (soon 1gb), 120gb hdd, fx go5700
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[22:45:38] <oxygene> Speckal: solaris is a very good production system.. opensolaris isn't as tested, but still good. it's also fast (without being on the "other side of the spectrum"), does opengl on some devices, and wine runs, too
[22:46:08] <coffman> Speckal: very mature, most stable os i came around, best for production. in scales better up then down :P - but it scales very nice, opensource games should do  - like quake stuff etc - if you have a nvidia cardsthere are binary drivers with full 3d. wine works okay dunno about cedega
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[22:46:36] <Speckal> oxygene:  you would then recommend solaris over opensolaris for production environments ... and neither one, really, as a drop-in replacement for an XP gaming box?
[22:46:52] <oxygene> Speckal: there is no drop-in replacement to windows gaming
[22:47:17] <oxygene> Speckal: and yes, I'd use solaris over opensolaris for production at this time
[22:47:35] <coffman> Speckal: no replacement for xp gaming, solaris for the server, opensolaris for the desktop
[22:47:51] <Speckal> oxygene: I consider cedega on linux to be pretty darn close to xp ... if opensolaris was anywhere near that good, I'd be happy :)
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[22:48:04] <Speckal> anyways, thanks for the input guys
[22:48:11] <oxygene> Speckal: cedega doesn't port its stuff to solaris, I think
[22:48:14] <coffman> solaara_: single core?
[22:49:01] <coffman> solaara_: i got fujitsu amilo with a 3700+ amd 64bit, 1gig 100gb hd, crapy ati
[22:49:13] <coffman> solaara_: runs oki
[22:49:31] <coffman> solaara_: which wifi card?
[22:51:11] <e^ipi> let's see if ON will build with my horribly mangled libc_i18n.a
[22:51:47] <solaara_> coffman: some broadcom...
[22:52:45] <solaara_> coffman: yep, single core
[22:54:15] <coffman> solaara_: hm, broadcom you could do via ndis wrapper
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[22:54:33] <solaara_> :)
[22:54:34] <coffman> solaara_: i would consider getting a cheap atheros or intel card
[22:54:39] <coffman> they work much more better
[22:54:46] <solaara_> ok
[22:54:47] <coffman> had to replace my broadcom to :P
[22:55:32] <solaara_> coffman: which opensolaris ver do u recommend?
[22:55:48] <coffman> solaara_: i run sxce 69
[22:56:02] <coffman> sxde is useless
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[22:57:21] <solaara_> ok
[22:57:41] <oxygene> e^ipi: yay!
[22:57:59] <e^ipi> oxygene: hold that thought for about 8 hours
[22:58:04] <e^ipi> no idea if it'll even build yet
[22:58:09] <oxygene> 8 hours...
[22:58:10] <e^ipi> let alone work
[22:58:39] <coffman> solaara_: make your disk layout like 2 root slice 7gb swap 2g and rest in a slice for zfs
[22:58:50] <coffman> solaara_: then you can do lu
[22:59:00] <e^ipi> oxygene: building ON on a sempron at 1.6ghz takes a while...
[22:59:13] <coffman> e^ipi: oh crap
[22:59:18] <oxygene> e^ipi: it takes >5hs on my p4-2.4ghz
[22:59:23] <oxygene> e^ipi: most of that is that build system
[22:59:24] <oxygene> sucks
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[22:59:34] <oxygene> but someone at sun is working on it[tm]
[22:59:37] <oxygene> *sigh*
[22:59:47] <solaara_> coffman: 7gb swap??>
[23:00:13] <coffman> solaara_: 2gb swap
[23:00:21] <CIA-27> nw141292: 6588124 libidmap/kidmap headers and libidmap compilation link should be delivered
[23:00:22] <CIA-27> raf: 6586967 Signal is sometimes not delivered on the alternate stack (although it should)
[23:00:34] <coffman> solaara_: two slice 7 gb for root
[23:00:37] <solaara_> coffman: oh, sorry :)
[23:00:41] <coffman> np
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[23:01:07] <solaara_> 7gb for one root is enought?
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[23:01:18] <alanc> bah - 'Your repository name must be between 4 and 30 characters long and composed only of alphanumeric characters, "_" and "-" '
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[23:01:46] <oxygene> alanc: repository?
[23:02:07] <alanc> trying to set up a mercurial repository on opensolaris.org
[23:02:17] <sommerfeld> named "X" ?
[23:02:25] <alanc> I was going for "fox"
[23:02:33] <alanc> for the "Fully Open X" project
[23:02:44] <alanc> guess it'll have to be project_fox
[23:02:53] <sommerfeld> phox
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[23:04:09] <alanc> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/fox/
[23:04:10] <e^ipi> alanc: as in, no binary drivers?
[23:04:32] <alanc> e^ipi: certainly not in the mercurial repository
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[23:05:22] <alanc> but more as in replacing our ancient closed X bits with new open ones, including the work Moinak did for Belenix, and the SPARC drivers Martin did for Martux
[23:05:41] <solaara_> coffman: any guide to partition and install solaris?
[23:06:01] <alanc> [Death to Xsun!  Long live Xorg!]
[23:06:13] <stevel> that's lame
[23:06:18] <stevel> (the 4 char min limit)
[23:06:32] <stevel> your path will be hg.os.o/hg/<project_name>/<repo_name>
[23:07:00] <alanc> oh, so calling the repo fox would be redundant too?
[23:07:07] <stevel> so if you call it project_fox, it'll be hg.os.o/hg/fox/project_fox.  fox would have been redundant there as well
[23:07:08] <alanc> hrm, fox/what then?
[23:07:33] <stevel> but some amount of redundancy is good
[23:07:34] <sommerfeld> fox/<releasename> ?
[23:07:41] <stevel> since the default behaviour is to just call your repo what its base name is
[23:07:52] <tomww> vox=veryopenX
[23:07:57] <stevel> e.g.: hg clone ssh://hg.opensolaris.org/hg/onnv/gate (which was my initial suggestion) gets you a repository named "gate"
[23:08:09] <stevel> which isn't too helpful :)
[23:08:23] <stevel> hence why we ended up going with the redundancy anyway (onnv/onnv-gate, and scm-migration/onnv-scm)
[23:08:26] <alanc> don't have a release name yet really - maybe-nevada-or-maybe-indiana doesn't flow well
[23:08:32] <stevel> you could call it 'fox-gate'
[23:08:44] <sommerfeld> alanc: pick another state
[23:08:46] <stevel> so when cloned you get the 'fox-gate' as the default name
[23:09:02] <alanc> yeah, guess fox-gate works
[23:09:27] <stevel> or 'foxy' :-)
[23:10:06] <stevel> short for "Fully Open X, Yay!" :-P
[23:10:42] <alanc> though then I'll be tempted to find some excuse to work on the XTrap extension, just to have a foxtrap gate
[23:10:42] <tomww> yafox
[23:14:22] <alanc> we have "affiliates"?   too many different ways to label people around here...
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[23:16:44] <stevel> that's because the webapp is a giant pile
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[23:18:14] <coffman> solaara_: well, the installer handels it quite nicly, dclark from balstwave.org did some got howto on the solaris 10 installation which mostly is also true for opensolaris http://www.blastwave.org/docs/s10u3_howto.html
[23:19:15] <coffman> so whats the stuff with the different paste buffers for ctrl+c/v ctrl/shift+insert and context menu copy/paste?
[23:22:11] <richlowe> alanc: it's twisty and sordid
[23:22:18] <richlowe> even worse where it interacts with the real world.
[23:22:44] <richlowe> web content is secondary anyway, it's the code that matters, so I'm all in favour of breaking the ties between the webapp and real infrastructure.
[23:22:47] <richlowe> it'd solve so many problems at once.
[23:23:20] <alanc> can we just break the webapp?
[23:24:16] <alanc> I tried to convince plocher a couple weeks ago that he should just make arc.opensoalris.org so he can rsync to get files on like we do with cr.opensolaris.org
[23:24:29] <alanc> avoid the webapp altogether
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[23:25:08] <solaara_> ok thanx
[23:25:19] <solaara_> coffan: ok, thanx
[23:26:11] <solaara_> coffman: so is 7gb for root enough?
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[23:28:14] <coffman> solaara_: ill put my /opt and such in zfs, so for my its okay since most of my stuff is on zfs
[23:29:05] <richlowe> alanc: I think it would be best where it comes to such content to split things up, yes.
[23:29:06] <solaara_> coffman: hmm... so what goes to root & what goes to zfs?
[23:29:09] <richlowe> alanc: but I doubt you'd get much buy-in.
[23:29:59] <coffman> solaara_: everything that gets updated via lu goes in root
[23:30:20] <solaara_> coffman: hmm.. and that is?
[23:30:23] <solaara_> :)
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[23:32:17] <coffman> pah
[23:33:11] <coffman> solaara_: mostly the stuff that you got after a clean install... (i remove staroffice ofc)
[23:34:23] <coffman> hmm i should truly write up on this
[23:34:24] <coffman> gar
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[23:35:39] <solaara_> coffman: hmmm...
[23:36:15] <alanc> oh, whew...almost thought I pulled a stevel there...
[23:36:31] <alanc> but I only generated one e-mail for the repository push, not one-per-putback...
[23:36:34] <alanc> 8-)
[23:38:02] <richlowe> Yes, the notification was fixed to prevent stevel dooming us all.
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[23:38:11] <alanc> hmm, is opengrok the only web interface to Hg repositories on opensolaris.org?
[23:38:14] <richlowe> more than 10 changesets, and it notifies in one big clump
[23:38:17] <richlowe> though it's still fairly buggy.
[23:38:18] <richlowe> alanc: Yes.
[23:38:27] <richlowe> darrenm wanted to see hgweb on there, and I somewhat agree.
[23:38:42] <alanc> would be nice to be able to browse by changeset
[23:38:52] <richlowe> Yes, that's his reasoning, too.
[23:39:21] <alanc> oh well, I can just set up a clone on our internal server and use hgweb there
[23:40:06] <richlowe> Or you could find someone to champion it and do it. :)
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[23:41:22] <acnfcc> does anyone know a good resource for a novice trying to setup email on an opensolaris box
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[23:47:06] <jmcp> acnfcc: server side or client side?
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[23:49:27] <vipe> recent alert: http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/document.do?assetkey=1-26-103021-1
[23:51:32] <solaara_> coffman: thanx for all
[23:55:57] <asyd> is someone have write access to http://opensolaris.org/os/downloads/on/?
[23:56:16] <asyd> I think it could be *very* nice to add a link to http://opensolaris.org/os/community/on/devref_toc/devref_5/  section 5.3
[23:56:39] <asyd> and remove the "follow instructions in the README" part, since the README in on-prebuilt contains only
[23:56:43] <asyd> the licence and the list of files
[23:56:46] <asyd> no instruction
[23:59:08] <coffman> solaara_: np
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[23:59:58] <dlg> x/;





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