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[00:32:44] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig
[00:32:59] * nrubsig groans
[00:33:18] <nrubsig> Anyone from Sun's kernel team awake ?
[00:33:59] <nrubsig> Anyone awake ?
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[00:34:27] <antoniojulio> hi channel
[00:34:36] 
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[00:35:14] <nrubsig> antoniojulio: sorry, this is a private Al Quagga channel. We're aplanning the next errorist event here...
[00:35:42] <lrgottlieb> Can anyone help me with a ZFS emergency?  I was doing an rsync on scratch disk, and deleted some files.
[00:35:56] * nrubsig checks for more errors in other people's software...
[00:36:57] <antoniojulio> opensolaris run un a pentium 3 box?
[00:37:12] <antoniojulio> opensolaris run in a pentium 3 box?
[00:37:18] <nrubsig> lrgottlieb: offline the disk and email zfs-discuss at opensolaris dot org ... it's weekend here... and likely all people who may be able to answer are drunk or something like that...
[00:37:28] <nrubsig> antoniojulio: AFAIK yes
[00:37:36] <lrgottlieb> ok
[00:37:39] <lrgottlieb> thanks...
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[00:38:45] * nrubsig wonders whether the joke with "drunk" was a good idea...
[00:39:12] * nrubsig stares at brendang
[00:39:15] <antoniojulio> i known linux debian/slackware and openbsd , howto learn opensolaris? i find a book to inicitials and administration guide, do you help me, please?
[00:40:00] <nrubsig> antoniojulio: AFAIK the best way to ask such questions is to subscribe to opensolaris-discuss at mail.opensolaris.org and ask the questions there...
[00:40:47] <nrubsig> Does OpenSolaris have a spanish-speaking user group ?
[00:41:03] <antoniojulio> nrubsig: this channel it's a users or opensolaris dev staff ?
[00:41:43] <nrubsig> antoniojulio: http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/g11n-es-discuss
[00:41:53] <antoniojulio> nrubsig: i am spanish , i need know spanish users groups! help me!
[00:42:17] <nrubsig> antoniojulio: half developers, half users and half the channel where the people hang out half the day when there is nothing todo...
[00:42:21] <nrubsig> antoniojulio: see http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/g11n-es-discuss
[00:42:24] <coffman> nrubsig: you are in a good mood today, hm? :P
[00:42:56] <nrubsig> coffman: no, I am tired, Single, lonely, hungry, sad and half-mad.
[00:43:07] <nrubsig> coffman: (and the last line was not a joke)
[00:43:18] <coffman> antoniojulio: try #opensolaris-es
[00:43:34] <coffman> nrubsig: *sigh*
[00:43:38] <antoniojulio> nrubsig: ok man , very thanks , best regards :-)
[00:43:46] <nrubsig> coffman: that channel has four users... ;-/
[00:44:03] <nrubsig> antoniojulio: use the mailinglist... AFAIK that's better...
[00:45:17] <antoniojulio> nrubsig: ok
[00:46:39] <coffman> nrubsig: so, why arent you out rocking then?
[00:46:46] <nrubsig> antoniojulio: and be patient... it's weekend.
[00:46:53] <nrubsig> coffman: rocking... what ?
[00:47:55] <coffman> nrubsig: dunno, party, you know?
[00:50:16] 
[00:50:17] 
[00:50:35] <nrubsig> grummel
[00:51:45] <coffman> nrubsig: *wuschel*
[00:52:05] <coffman> nr 2 ohne party vorher? tsts
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[01:04:47] <nayyres> hi guys
[01:06:55] <nayyres> my solaris machine boot in command line shell, i want it to change to graphical, where should i edit, i am new to solaris?
[01:08:23] <estibi> nayyres: svcadm enable gdm
[01:08:25] <estibi> or
[01:08:31] <estibi> nayyres: svcadm enable cde-login
[01:09:31] <estibi> you don't need to edit anything
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[01:11:17] <nrubsig> estibi: this will only work if X11 is working. He needs alanc first to get this step completed.
[01:12:40] <estibi> nrubsig: right
[01:13:46] <nayyres> estibi, so?
[01:14:35] <nrubsig> nayyres: it's weekend
[01:14:47] <nayyres> nrubsig :D
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[01:14:54] <nrubsig> nayyres: IMO you get better help in opensolaris-discuss at opensolaris dot org
[01:15:04] <nrubsig> nayyres: or come back in 48h
[01:15:15] <Triskelios> nayyres: try one of the commands which estibi suggested
[01:15:18] <Triskelios> nrubsig: ...
[01:15:40] <nayyres> nrubsig, i have just started working on solaris :D unfortunatly on weekend
[01:15:42] <nayyres> hahahha
[01:15:55] * nayyres holding beer with solaris DVD !
[01:16:14] * nayyres is RHCE !
[01:16:42] * nrubsig checks whether he can kickban nayyres for the RH comment...
[01:17:03] <nayyres> o.O
[01:17:36] <nrubsig>  /kick nayyres reason: Mutant redhatter invasion from outer space.
[01:18:16] * nayyres love the idea behind Open ! whether it is linux or solaris or even windows :D
[01:19:05] <nrubsig> Wasn't OpenWindows EOL'ed by Sun years ago ?
[01:19:16] <Auralis> yes
[01:19:58] <nrubsig> Auralis: see ? It's all Sun's fault. They killed the "Open" version of "Windows" and then blamed M$ for not being open.
[01:20:11] <nrubsig> :-)
[01:20:14] * nrubsig giggles
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[01:27:23] <coffman> nrubsig: bad boy
[01:27:51] <coffman> why not set up a drone
[01:28:13] <coffman> "this channel is closed since it is weekend"
[01:28:37] <coffman> "please use the mailinglists"
[01:29:17] <nayyres> coffman, you are Bot ! ;)
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[01:34:41] <nrubsig> coffman: I am not bad.
[01:35:10] * nrubsig grabs coffman, snapps his neck and then rips out his heart and starts eating it raw.
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[01:37:01] * oninoshiko makes a fire for nrubsig
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[01:50:45] * nrubsig still gnaws on coffman's bones...
[01:50:52] <nrubsig> oninoshiko: what is "fire" ?
[01:51:30] <oninoshiko> what happens when you rip the heat sink off some processors and pile shreded papaer on them
[01:52:12] 
[01:52:32] <Triskelios> quick, someone give me an #ifdef for studio compilers
[01:52:40] <flyingparchment> __SUNPRO_C
[01:52:43] <coffman> nrubsig: nope. take a old amd sockel a and you will get a nice little fire
[01:52:44] <tomww> depends on the paper :-)
[01:53:57] <nrubsig> Triskelios: see man cc (e.g. cc(1) manual page) for a complete list
[01:53:59] <coffman> oh shit. my speech is online
[01:54:11] <Triskelios> thanks
[01:54:24] <nrubsig> Triskelios: usually |__SUNPRO_C| for C and |__SUNPRO_CC| for C++
[01:54:35] <oninoshiko> what speech is that?
[01:55:14] <coffman> its in german which hopefully decrease the amount of people who are able to understand it :P
[01:55:25] <coffman> little zfs intro that was
[01:55:28] * Auralis knows german :)
[01:55:47] <nrubsig> coffman: you mean your speech about the mating behaviour in computer rooms ?
[01:55:54] * oninoshiko doesnt :(
[01:56:29] <coffman> nrubsig: pff
[01:56:41] * oninoshiko considers the tipical gender gap in the computing field...
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[01:58:11] <coffman> two girls where in audience ...
[01:58:11] <oninoshiko> so... im guessing that would involve alot of websurfing....
[01:58:12] <flyingparchment> how many servers do i need before "solaris everywhere" service is a good option?
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[02:11:17] <flyingparchment> hmm. the sun store is confusing.  i buy something listed as ?535, and the sub-total comes to ?732
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[02:17:47] <myrkraverk> is there an advantage of using solaris threads or the pthreads API?
[02:18:24] <delewis> threads(5) list several
[02:18:29] <delewis> s/list/lists/
[02:18:32] <myrkraverk> hmm, ok
[02:18:50] <nrubsig> flyingparchment: maybe some kind of tax ?
[02:19:07] <flyingparchment> it says 15% sales tax, but that isn't enough to increase the price that much
[02:19:17] <nrubsig> flyingparchment: e.g. in germany we have to ad 19% for everything we buy, may be he US has something similar
[02:20:01] <nrubsig> flyingparchment: did you select 'support contract, submit either "firstborn" or "$$$$"' ?
[02:22:45] <oninoshiko> there is no national sales tax in the united states, just an income tax... (although individual states and municipalities can have sales taxes
[02:23:27] * oninoshiko wishes the united states would drop its stupid income tax and use a sales tax, really
[02:24:31] <oninoshiko> well there are coperate income taxes too... which amount to a sales tax, in the end. just more complex to administer
[02:24:59] <Mdx4> oninoshiko: he is talking about VAT :)
[02:25:39] <oninoshiko> and we dont have a equivelent, thats my point
[02:25:58] <oninoshiko> although i did go off an a tangent there
[02:26:03] * nrubsig wishes there would be a tax on tax derived from a tax based on sales, income, feet smell strength and a tax based on the tax which is going to be calculated in a year.
[02:26:12] <flyingparchment> i'm not in the US anyway, i'm buying for a german organisation
[02:26:30] <oninoshiko> ahh... maybe it is VAT
[02:26:32] <nrubsig> flyingparchment: ODESSA ?
[02:26:49] <Mdx4> VAT = Value Added Tax
[02:26:58] <flyingparchment> a 40% tax? :)
[02:27:00] <nrubsig> flyingparchment: (ok, bad joke)
[02:27:12] <oninoshiko> i never understood the value added tax...
[02:27:13] <Mdx4> 40% ?
[02:27:16] <nrubsig> flyingparchment: no, 666% income tax
[02:27:17] <oninoshiko> what is the value added?
[02:27:45] <nrubsig> erm
[02:27:48] <nrubsig> river ?
[02:28:06] * nrubsig kicks river for changing her nick every week
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[02:28:20] <delewis> hah, I've noticed that, too.
[02:28:21] <flyingparchment> hmm, if i buy in USD, i get $720.  maybe i should do that ;-)
[02:28:28] <Mdx4> oninoshiko: is the difference between a manufactured good value and it's RAW components.
[02:28:38] <nrubsig> flyingparchment: do you speak german ?
[02:28:39] <Mdx4> components value.
[02:28:42] <flyingparchment> no
[02:28:57] <nrubsig> flyingparchment: which organisation were you talking about ? Wikipedia ?
[02:29:07] <flyingparchment> nrubsig: Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
[02:29:54] <nrubsig> flyingparchment: and they want ... what ?
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[02:30:08] <flyingparchment> solaris support
[02:30:45] <nrubsig> flyingparchment: erm...
[02:30:59] <nrubsig> flyingparchment: I thought they're a Linux-only shop...
[02:31:23] <flyingparchment> mostly, there are a few solaris too
[02:31:40] <Mdx4> i wish that the global heat will kill all those penguins.
[02:32:41] * nrubsig wishes all Pazzerello's will die from the heat, too.
[02:32:44] <theRealballchalk> Mdx4: why?
[02:32:45] <delewis> penguins are rugged brids.
[02:32:51] <delewis> (unfortunately)
[02:32:58] <oninoshiko> First, what is it you want us to pay taxes for? Tell me what I get and perhaps I'll buy it. --Robert Heinlein
[02:33:19] <nrubsig> delewis: Bossler 40mm frontloader shotgun will solve THAT problem... :-)
[02:34:30] <delewis> oninoshiko, that'd usually be our defense budget. :-)
[02:34:31] <nrubsig> Mdx4: BTW: Most penguins will extinct from other reasons... like pollution or lack of ice needed for breeding.
[02:34:40] <delewis> s/defense/offense/, that is.
[02:35:04] <nrubsig> delewis: how does the US call the "minstry of war" these times ?
[02:35:05] <oninoshiko> i dont know... a suprisingly large amount of taxes goes to collection taxes o.0
[02:35:36] <Mdx4> was a metaphor to intend linux..
[02:35:42] <delewis> nrubsig, Department of Defense and Homeland Security (separate agencies)
[02:35:46] <Jondice> defense = war
[02:35:50] <Jondice> security = defense
[02:35:55] <delewis> we're not to 'Ministry of Peace' yet :-)_
[02:36:07] <delewis> i'd imagine that one is coming, though
[02:36:23] <myrkraverk> and don't forget nightwatch
[02:36:38] <oninoshiko> Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
[02:36:40] <Triskelios> delewis: shhh, you'll spoil tomorrow's surprise
[02:36:48] <Mdx4> delewis: there is one, they bomb before can happen a war :) Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !
[02:36:49] <cormac> Anyone tried using the freebsd ports collection on solaris?
[02:37:05] <Triskelios> cormac: there's pkgsrc and SFE
[02:37:12] <delewis> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.R._5122_%282006%29
[02:37:14] <nrubsig> delewis: "Ministry Of Love" will come first. Like in "soldiers!! You have to love your enemie. And send your love letters using a Hellfire Mk.4 rocket directly at their a**ses"
[02:37:19] <delewis> now if that doesn't sound like B5, I don't know what does..
[02:37:46] <cormac> Triskelios: you mean netbsd pkgsrc?
[02:37:59] <cormac> or something im unaware of
[02:38:07] <Triskelios> cormac: yeah, that's actually sort of maintained for solaris too
[02:38:20] <oninoshiko> Lingua mortua sola lingua bona est. :p
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[02:38:33] <cormac> Triskelios: ahh cool
[02:38:34] * nrubsig executes oninoshiko with a latin bible
[02:38:36] <delewis> before this bill was passed, only the governors of each respective state controlled the local national guard units and could utilize them. (now the president can utilize them directly at his will and supercede the governor's authority)
[02:38:45] <Mdx4> oninoshiko: is not a dead tongue :(
[02:39:25] <nrubsig> delewis: wait... does that mean the govenors can declar war to their neigbor govenors using the national guard ?
[02:39:45] <delewis> nrubsig, I suspect the federal government wouldn't like that very much. :-)
[02:39:46] <cormac> I wanted put together a cut down solaris, with some kind of ports collection
[02:39:52] <Mdx4> nrubsig: a nation can declare war, not a staet :)
[02:39:58] <Mdx4> s/staet/state/g
[02:40:03] <delewis> the point is, though, is that Bush can declare martial law without congressional/state support.
[02:40:14] <delewis> that previously wasn't possible until this bill was passed this year.
[02:40:18] <nrubsig> delewis: does the national guard have nukes ?
[02:40:34] <delewis> (and conspicuously, there's another $500 billion allocated to the defense budget for this fiscal year)
[02:40:42] <oninoshiko> but originally states had greater degrees of sovrenty then the enjoy presently
[02:40:57] <delewis> nrubsig, no, think of them as the Ministry of Peace.
[02:40:58] <Mdx4> delewis: generals's toys are expensive :)
[02:41:15] <nrubsig> delewis: you mean Peanuts, right ?
[02:41:18] <delewis> at least now, that's basically what they are.
[02:41:24] <delewis> (under the direct authority of the president)
[02:41:37] <Auralis> just wait when election times comes and it needs to be cancled due to national security or some bollocks
[02:41:45] <delewis> nrubsig, they're basically an 'army' that helps out with local disasters, riot control, etc.
[02:41:50] <nrubsig> delewis: too bad that they don't have nukes... wouldve'been fun to see texas nuking NY ... =:-)
[02:42:09] * nrubsig hides...
[02:42:13] <oninoshiko> and, in the event of invasion, provides for the protection of the state
[02:42:41] <nrubsig> oninoshiko: yeah, invasion of bad bad... uhm... <insert wrong state> in <insert right state>
[02:42:43] <Mdx4> oninoshiko: it's an ausiliary army ..
[02:43:29] <nrubsig> coll... national guards have F-16 jets... :-)
[02:43:30] <delewis> Auralis, wouldn't surprise me.
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[02:43:53] <delewis> I suspect if Bush wanted to make a move for power, it'd be some time before this election (now that he has power of the national guard *and* a huge budget)
[02:43:53] <nrubsig> s/coll/cool/
[02:44:23] <nrubsig> delewis: seriously... King Bush I ?
[02:44:36] <nrubsig> delewis: sounds nice... :-)
[02:44:37] <oninoshiko> now your all just being silly
[02:44:42] <oninoshiko> you*
[02:44:55] <nrubsig> King (Kong) Bush I
[02:45:03] <delewis> nrubsig, :-)
[02:45:08] <oninoshiko> anyway... i gotta go...
[02:45:11] <oninoshiko> TTFN
[02:45:11] <Auralis> well, seriously, thats like the last missing step from the old german handbook of dictator ship for dummies
[02:45:17] <delewis> Auralis, yep.
[02:45:45] <oninoshiko> i dont no... its the dems who want the fist step "take all armerment from the populous"
[02:45:51] <oninoshiko> know*
[02:46:19] <delewis> I don't really make partisan distinctions at this point. It was the majority of the congress that passed this bill, and thus gave Bush this power.
[02:46:24] <Mdx4> oninoshiko: ?? why ??, just convince them of something and let them do the rest.
[02:46:31] <delewis> they're all the same. a bunch of back-stabbing liars.
[02:47:09] <oninoshiko> Mdx4 : i think you'll find thats easier said then done
[02:47:18] <oninoshiko> anyway i really am going now
[02:47:47] <nrubsig> High-born King Bush I, the slayer of Saddam, holder of the scepter of <insert iran once this job is done>, holder of the holy crown of the United Kingdom (not the fake vesion worn by the queen, I mean the original one), emporor for life (until the guys who finished JFK get a new task), Caesar of America, Man-God(-Chicken) who must be worshipped!!!!
[02:47:54] <delewis> and what's entertaining (and unfortunate at the same) is that Hitler was doing this same sort of thing before he made a move for power.
[02:48:05] <Mdx4> nrubsig: no iran job 'll be done.
[02:48:10] <delewis> with the fire at the Reichstag and all and a declaration of emergency that utilized the German equivalent of the National Guard.
[02:48:39] <delewis> because the equivalent of congress in Germany had given Hitler the power of the local "national guard" units prior to that.
[02:48:40] <Triskelios> keep in mind that it would be difficult for Bush to pull this off without more popular support than he currently enjoys
[02:49:08] <Mdx4> forgot it :) no way to be realized, with IRAQ they know that had no any kind of "real weapon" with IRAK is a different situation.
[02:49:17] <Mdx4> ops IRAN :)
[02:49:20] <Auralis> indeed thats a difficulty, which however can me overcome with another 'nice' incident on local soil
[02:49:24] <nrubsig> delewis: Ok. we're taking bets - what will burn ? Congress ? NY nuked ? White House hit by plane (yes, the classical ruse...) ?
[02:49:40] <delewis> nrubsig, :-)
[02:49:53] <delewis> consider I'm living on here.. I'd hope that nothing like this happens.
[02:49:56] <delewis> but its scary at the same time.
[02:50:15] <Mdx4> American people to begin a war have to be IT in its territory..
[02:50:16] <delewis> s/on/over/
[02:50:26] <Mdx4> s/IT/HIT/g
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[02:51:47] <nrubsig> delewis: why not ? At least the white house could need a new paint job... and NY city needs a new electrical and steam pipe system...
[02:52:22] <Mdx4> nrubsig: and some skuscrapers needs to be rebuilded too :)
[02:52:31] <nrubsig> one quick nuke job and you have a reason to do the cleanup&&painting (after removing the skeletons etc.) ...
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[02:53:19] <Triskelios> given the current situation I'm actually anticipating a relatively uneventful election, and that the problems emerge afterward
[02:54:17] <nrubsig> Triskelios: you mean problems like "help, we can't count, lets guess a number..." ?
[02:57:43] <Triskelios> nrubsig: well, not that level of finagling in the electoral process. I mean if there's more political machinery at work it's probably not going to take its chances with Bush this late in the game, so the election must appear to go smoothly
[02:59:28] <nrubsig> erm... whatever. Just make sure something gets nuked and iran gets all the blame.
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[03:05:00] <myrkraverk> when debugging a curses app, can dbx show it in another terminal?
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[03:23:43] <TomJ> anyone got nv-b69 running in VMWare?
[03:24:03] <TomJ> it seemed to install ok, ut then I get just a black screen after grub
[03:24:08] <TomJ> never boots.
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[03:38:08] <myrkraverk> my curses example doesn't work properly when debugged in another tty; it doesn't matter whether I use dbx or gdb it seems
[03:38:09] <myrkraverk> ;/
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[04:15:53] <CIA-26> praks: 6588702 panic in vnevent_create()
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[04:22:01] <coffman> ohdear.
[04:25:53] <SYS64738> ronf
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[04:38:10] <salamanders> hum...where can i get GeFore 8500gt driver for solaris10 x86 ?
[04:38:37] <jmcp> it's an nvidia card, so grab the current nvidia driver set
[04:38:46] <jmcp> it should be included in the download
[04:39:16] <salamanders> i couldn't find it in nVidia's office site,so....
[04:39:36] <jmcp> really?
[04:39:38] <jmcp> that's surprising
[04:39:45] <jmcp> what did you look for?
[04:39:58] <salamanders> seems the last driver could support to 7xxx
[04:40:29] <jmcp> did you try this one? http://www.nvidia.com/object/solaris_display_1.0-9755.html
[04:40:51] <jmcp> give it a go, and see whether it works
[04:41:02] <Gekkko> damn ATi
[04:41:05] <Gekkko> damn them to hell.
[04:41:13] <salamanders> ok,I'll try it.
[04:41:24] <jmcp> or even http://www.nvidia.com/object/solaris_display_100.14.11.html
[04:41:47] <jmcp> that's the latest one, as far as I can see
[04:43:21] <salamanders> These drivers provide optimized hardware acceleration for OpenGL and X applications and support nearly all recent NVIDIA GPU products (see Appendix C, Supported NVIDIA GPU Products for a complete list of supported GPUs). TwinView, TV-Out and flat panel displays are also supported.
[04:43:28] <salamanders> http://us.download.nvidia.com/solaris/100.14.11/README/appendix-c.html
[04:44:07] <salamanders> all are Quadro...
[04:44:29] <salamanders> and there is no 8500gt GPU...:(
[04:44:37] <jmcp> so try an experiment and see whether it works or not
[04:45:02] <salamanders> ok,try it! downloading...
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[05:11:57] <gnut> hi all
[05:12:22] <gnut> i know this isn't quite an opensolaris-specific issue, but... why can I ping 192.168.1.1 when my local network is on 192.168.27.0?
[05:12:38] <gnut> a traceroute shows that it goes out of my server and goes through my ISP
[05:12:41] <jmcp> because you've got a route to it, somehow
[05:13:04] <jmcp> and I don't think you should, really
[05:13:36] <jmcp> I guess your ISP is routing those IPs
[05:14:00] <gnut> oh
[05:14:16] <gnut> so it's not uncommon for an ISP to use internal addresses (such as 192.168.1.1) ?
[05:14:23] <gnut> and route those to their users?
[05:14:37] <gnut> just making sure someone didn't put a hole in my system to allow them to route to me
[05:15:07] <jmcp> my opinion is that ISPs should not be using 192.168.x.y or 172.16.x.y addresses
[05:15:44] <gnut> okay. nmap returns that it thinks the address is a Cisco router
[05:15:59] <TomJ> |that's not just an opinion, jmcp, that breaks all sorts of specs
[05:16:02] <gnut> I should block these addresses in my pf script
[05:16:25] <jmcp> TomJ: my opinion breaks specs, or my opinion is correct?
[05:16:26] <jmcp> :-)
[05:16:34] <TomJ> your opinion is correct
[05:16:40] <jmcp> phew
[05:16:53] <TomJ> an ISP should not be allocating private IPs
[05:16:58] <gnut> so... if I block incoming 192.168.1.1? will that prevent my machine from getting an IP address from my ISP in the future?
[05:17:08] <TomJ> unless of course it nats them to public IPs first,  but then why not just give out the public IP?
[05:17:17] <gnut> and yeah... for the ISP to be handing out private IPs, what if I wanted to set up a private net with that IP?
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[05:22:38] <gnut> should I block access to the 192.168.1.0 net then? or do you think this will prevent my ISP from giving me new IPs in the future?
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[05:45:35] <coffman> gnut: its more likely that your cisco router put you in another subnet
[05:46:12] <coffman> i dont think there are any "bigger" providers that use private networks..
[05:46:52] <coffman> some router provide you with different sub nets, one for lan, one for wifi
[06:20:03] <moazamraja> yeah
[06:20:05] <moazamraja> oops
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[08:22:54] <jelari> [newbiew] each process has its own proc_t structure, Assuming that solaris kernel itself a process. Now my question is where all the rest of proc_t will be mapped with?.. is all proc_t stored in kernel memory?
[08:28:03] <jelari> could some one clarify my question?
[08:42:15] <myrkraverk> I don't understand it at all
[08:44:43] <ircuser_about_to> i'm thinking of building a backup fileserver that would be pretty minimal. i'm currently trying to decide between freebsd, openbsd, and (open)solaris. i really like zfs, but i'm not so sure that i'll actually use all of its features. i plan to have a software RAID 1 TB system. why should i use opensolaris over the other two (i'm trying to get a decent comparison by asking around)
[08:46:28] <moazamraja> ircuser_about_to: couple of reasons..
[08:46:59] <jpipkin> if that is all its going to do... I would say ZFS reliability and flexibility is about the only difference
[08:47:21] <moazamraja> ircuser_about_to: 1.) ZFS. Snapshots of your files, compression of your files within the pipeline, easy creation/addition of volumes on your storage backup server
[08:47:33] <ircuser_about_to> moazamraja: i'm all ears. bear in mind, i have used all three sufficiently long enough and i only plan to have this system for myself
[08:48:07] <toblun> ircuser_about_to: OpenBSD in not a good option. the filesystem are not good in handeling volumes over 1024Gb. FreeBSD has zfs-support in 7.0-current. It's not stable tho. Zfs is the most reliable fs, and volum-management is realy easy. (Open)Solaris is the way to go.
[08:48:12] <moazamraja> 2.) NFS, if you use NFS to transport data over the network, OpenSolaris has an excellent NFS stack, with NFS v4, and v4.1 (pNFS) coming soon
[08:48:15] <ircuser_about_to> well, with ZFS, others in openbsd have mentioned that it's not "stable." my experience with ZFS was quite the contrary, but what do you all suppose was meant by not stable?
[08:48:29] <ircuser_about_to> i had some pretty crappy luck with hardware support though
[08:48:34] <ircuser_about_to> (on opensolaris)
[08:48:47] <moazamraja> ircuser_about_to: i'm using ZFS in a production environment for a super-mega-large site
[08:48:55] <moazamraja> like, amazon/ebay leve.
[08:48:58] <moazamraja> level...even
[08:48:59] <ircuser_about_to> wow
[08:49:08] <jpipkin> I'm using it in production as well, though certainly not on that level
[08:49:17] <moazamraja> we moved from veritas to ZFS, for soooo many reasons
[08:49:30] <ircuser_about_to> toblun: i'm handling 1 TiB most likely because hardware disk drive makers lie
[08:49:30] <moazamraja> and then...
[08:49:33] <moazamraja> 3.) Zones
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[08:49:52] <jpipkin> however, the OpenBSD crowd would probably have been referring to it theoretically not being as well tested as an old system such as ufs
[08:50:15] <moazamraja> true, while you just want it to be a backup server, you can zone it up, allow the global zone to be the backup server, and then create smaller zones for other tasks, each with their own IP, users/root, etc.
[08:50:20] <ircuser_about_to> they were advocating i use UFS2 because it'll definitely cover my storage issues, but even UFS works with up to 2 TB
[08:50:34] <moazamraja> and you can clone or blow away zones very quickly
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[09:00:48] <ircuser_about_to> yeargh, the arguments presented just made my decision making harder :(
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[09:00:56] <ircuser_about_to> i was so set on openbsd ;)
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[09:06:34] <Tempt> I'd trust ZFS over VxVM/VxFS these days.
[09:07:05] <ircuser_about_to> i hated package management for opensolaris though
[09:07:27] <ircuser_about_to> it's like all the little things annoyed me like package management and hardware support for x86 in my case at least
[09:07:58] <ircuser_about_to> but all the bigs things like zfs and zones (to some extent, dtrace, wasn't the 'wow' i expected, maybe too much hype) just work so nicely
[09:09:02] <toblun> ircuser_about_to: http://www.blastwave.org/
[09:10:12] <jpipkin> for a backup server
[09:10:20] <jpipkin> is package management really an issue?
[09:12:40] <ircuser_about_to> blastwave, i was told is basically like selling your stability away
[09:13:18] <moazamraja> blastwave is great in a pinch
[09:13:53] <jpipkin> good for simple tools like screen and rsync
[09:15:25] <moazamraja> for apache, mysql, etc, compile it yourself or get it from the Sun coolstack package
[09:16:04] <jpipkin> just as you would on any system
[09:18:35] <ircuser_about_to> what would differentiate freebsd with zfs from opensolaris with zfs? freebsd may be lacking in some features of zfs understandably, but it will eventually catch up, yes?
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[09:23:50] <Gekkko> no.
[09:23:51] <Gekkko> lol
[09:24:23] <jpipkin> logically, if ZFS is being developed on OpenSolaris and ported to FreeBSD
[09:24:36] <jpipkin> that would differentiate the two pretty substantially.
[09:25:03] <Gekkko> it wont catch up
[09:25:04] <Gekkko> >_>
[09:25:11] <Gekkko> licencing issues being one I believe.
[09:26:42] <ircuser_about_to> maybe i'm wrong in thinking this, but isn't freebsd enjoying a larger community of developers? that being the case, if zfs was sufficiently ported to freebsd, what point would there be to using opensolaris? as my understanding goes, chroot jail == zones, and dtrace is of very little use to me as of now at least
[09:27:21] <delewis> jails are most certainly not zones.
[09:27:37] <delewis> if you want to see why, read the latest security advisory on FreeBSD jails.
[09:27:55] <delewis> zones are isolated in Solaris by real least privilege mechanisms (root in a zone is not the same root as in a global zone)
[09:28:28] <ircuser_about_to> okey doke. the folks in #openbsd, ##freebsd, and this channel are certainly not helping me pick one because they all make such good cases :(
[09:28:49] <delewis> all that's protecting a jail from the equivalent of the global zone is FreeBSD is a batch of magic.
[09:28:52] <ircuser_about_to> oh, right, RBAC as well.. i'll have to look up what the equivalent for FreeBSD is
[09:28:58] <delewis> magic being shell scripts, hacks to rc, etc.
[09:29:07] <delewis> FreeBSD doesn't have an equivalent.
[09:29:14] <delewis> root in FreeBSD really is root.
[09:29:19] <delewis> there's no least privilege mechanisms.
[09:29:30] <Gekkko> here's a good question: which is better for a workstation: FreeBSD or OpenSolaris?
[09:29:47] <jpipkin> no diff
[09:29:50] <delewis> considering FreeBSD has zero support from vendors, that would automatically mean Solaris.
[09:29:55] <jpipkin> well, needs depending
[09:30:10] <delewis> CATIA, Mathematica, etc. don't have native FreeBSD versions.
[09:30:18] <Gekkko> delewis: what about - ease of use, package management, compatibility
[09:30:20] <jpipkin> I ran both on my workstations at work, I'd say equally good for that task
[09:30:31] <pjd-> ircuser_about_to: What software raid you wanted to use on openbsd?
[09:30:50] <ircuser_about_to> on OpenBSD, FreeBSD, OpenSolaris the needs are all the same... software RAID 1
[09:30:51] <delewis> Gekkko, FreeBSD isn't remotely POSIX-compliant (let alone SUSv3)
[09:30:56] <ircuser_about_to> with two 1 TB disks
[09:31:01] <delewis> look at the freebsd-standards archive
[09:31:10] <Gekkko> Therefore it's a DNF for FreeBSD :P
[09:31:19] <delewis> as for package management, I find Solaris's package management system to be adequate.
[09:31:30] <Gekkko> what is OpenSolaris's package manager >_>
[09:31:32] <ircuser_about_to> delewis: what do you use to manage packages?
[09:31:34] <delewis> I'm a competent sysadmin that builds packages that aren't shipped by the vendor.
[09:31:39] <pjd-> toblun: Do you see any instability in ZFS/FreeBSD? If so, I'm all ears.
[09:31:40] <delewis> not some half-ass one.
[09:31:52] <ircuser_about_to> updatemanager? blastwave's pkg_get? SFW?
[09:32:03] <delewis> can you read?
[09:32:20] <delewis> I roll my own packages that aren't shipped by the vendor.
[09:32:28] <Gekkko> don't you install any from teh vendor?
[09:32:31] <ircuser_about_to> you build everything from scratch? also, i just got all your messages (i'm on wireless and it lagged)
[09:32:38] <delewis> I said that aren't shipped by the vendor.
[09:32:41] <delewis> that being mostly freeware.
[09:32:54] <delewis> ircuser_about_to, not everything, just packages that aren't shipped by the vendor.
[09:32:54] <toblun> pjd-: I've hade some random craches. I'ts not a stable release.
[09:32:57] <Gekkko> so what about the ones that are shipped by the vendor
[09:33:04] <delewis> the vendor being Sun, IBM, Oracle, Wolfram, etc.
[09:33:06] <Gekkko> what manager do you use?
[09:33:09] <ircuser_about_to> delewis: like what do you use that needs building out of curiosity?
[09:33:16] <delewis> Gekkko, any package shipped on Sun media.
[09:33:31] <zvrba> delewis: even though it's not, i've had no problems running all programs that I've needed
[09:33:39] <zvrba> delewis: even Oracle works under linux emulation layer
[09:33:49] <zvrba> so POSIX-compliance isn't a big deal
[09:33:52] <delewis> MPlayer, FFmpeg, nedit, XMMS, etc.
[09:34:09] <ircuser_about_to> ugh, mplayer... building that on my box takes forever
[09:34:29] <delewis> zvrba, its a big deal. You just don't have any applications that use POSIX interfaces that FreeBSD doesn't have yet (or are broken)
[09:34:31] <ircuser_about_to> i assume you're on some sort of mega-workstation though, not the crummy stuff i used to buy
[09:34:40] <zvrba> delewis: exactly.
[09:34:47] <delewis> the /bin/sh that FreeBSD uses doesn't comply with the POSIX spec for sh.
[09:34:52] <pjd-> Gekkko: What ZFS features are not in FreeBSD?
[09:34:57] <zvrba> delewis: given that, linux is broken too :P
[09:35:05] <delewis> zvrba, which is precisely why I don't use Linux.
[09:35:10] <Gekkko> pjd-: I don't know.
[09:35:11] <pjd-> ircuser_about_to: What software raid exactly you wanted to use on OpenBSD? Is there one?
[09:35:12] <delewis> most of what I use nowadays is UNIX2003-compliant.
[09:35:17] <delewis> that includes Solaris and AIX.
[09:35:25] <ircuser_about_to> pjd-: i don't understand... RAID 1?
[09:35:30] <zvrba> delewis: i use it only on my workstation which is only remote shell towards devel machines :)
[09:35:55] <Gekkko> delewis: is the POSIX compliancy list easy to read?
[09:35:57] <pjd-> ircuser_about_to: Ok, what command would you use to create raid1?
[09:36:04] <delewis> Gekkko, the spec is public.
[09:36:09] <pjd-> Gekkko: So why do you think it won't catch up?
[09:36:11] <ircuser_about_to> pjd-: i don't know, it'll be a learning exercise for me :)
[09:36:22] <delewis> for SUSv3, anyway, which encapsulates multiple POSIX standards.
[09:37:24] <zvrba> i just hope that Solaris won't get destroyed by that "linux-friendly project", whatever its name is >:
[09:37:30] <ircuser_about_to> Nexenta?
[09:37:32] <zvrba> i'm perfectly happy with Solaris userland
[09:37:39] <pjd-> ircuser_about_to: AFAIK the only choice is ccd, which is can only write to two disks, but it doesn't offer any automation.
[09:37:50] <ircuser_about_to> pjd-: i was reading this tutorial earlier today: http://www.eclectica.ca/howto/openbsd-software-raid-howto.php
[09:37:54] <delewis> zvrba, there's talk about rolling future Solaris releases from Project Indiana.
[09:37:59] <delewis> Sun can't break compatibility, though.
[09:38:02] <zvrba> yes, project indiana
[09:38:04] <zvrba> >:
[09:38:05] <delewis> so you don't have anything to worry about.
[09:38:13] <zvrba> what is indiana about?
[09:38:18] <zvrba> just better packaging or.. ?
[09:38:42] <Tempt> Don't worry. If they start pushing Solaris out with an Indiana-style userland, I will provide a corrective shell script to automate the cleanup.
[09:38:49] <jpipkin> pjd-:: http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#RAID
[09:38:56] <Gekkko> zvrba: how can it destroy Solaris?
[09:39:01] <pjd-> ircuser_about_to: Ah, they have raidframe. Is anyone working on this in OpenBSD? I know that Greg Oster was actively working on it in NetBSD.
[09:39:14] <ircuser_about_to> pjd-: i think it would be more relevant in #openbsd
[09:39:16] <zvrba> Gekkko: by replacing current userland with GNU crap? :P
[09:39:33] <ircuser_about_to> what's wrong with "GNU crap"?
[09:39:36] <Gekkko> that doesn't destroy Solaris though
[09:39:47] * ircuser_about_to is not a GNU zealot.. just curious
[09:39:48] <zvrba> well... depends on your perspective
[09:39:58] <zvrba> ircuser_about_to: ever worked on Linux ?
[09:40:06] <Gekkko> it might destroy Nexenta
[09:40:09] <ircuser_about_to> zvrba: yes, plenty. in fact my laptop runs arch
[09:40:12] <Gekkko> but I can't see how it will destroy Sun Solaris.
[09:40:21] <zvrba> well.. Linux is a mish-mash of inconsistent utilities.
[09:40:49] <ircuser_about_to> i would never use it on a server that i care about, but that's not to say that the "inconsistent utilities" are bad
[09:40:49] <zvrba> everything in FBSD and Solaris has a nice, consistent, integrated "look & feel"
[09:40:54] <pjd-> ircuser_about_to: I'm only little curious, not that curious:)
[09:40:54] <zvrba> which is well thought-out
[09:41:05] <delewis> Solaris still has to be able to pass whatever compatibility tests, otherwise customers will be very unhappy.
[09:41:08] <zvrba> GNU userland gives more features on the surface, but...
[09:41:25] <jpipkin> because GNU doesn't get Unix philosophy
[09:41:33] <zvrba> indeed
[09:41:36] <ircuser_about_to> ?
[09:41:38] <pjd-> delewis: BTW. Root in jail is not root outside jail.
[09:41:39] <jpipkin> and are determined to have their own version of *every*thing
[09:41:48] <ircuser_about_to> why is that a bad thing?
[09:41:57] <ircuser_about_to> more competition is a good thing last i checked
[09:41:58] <zvrba> because it breaks down on non-gnu systems
[09:42:05] <zvrba> ircuser_about_to: yes, but GNU != standards
[09:42:08] <zvrba> e.g. UNIX03
[09:42:15] <Gekkko> GNU == a standard
[09:42:18] <zvrba> no
[09:42:21] <zvrba> well
[09:42:22] <zvrba> yes
[09:42:23] <Gekkko> it's own standard./
[09:42:24] <zvrba> unfortunately
[09:42:28] <Gekkko> that's what I meant.
[09:42:31] <jpipkin> which is less than useful.
[09:42:46] <ircuser_about_to> so... if they made an official standard, that would make everyone happy?
[09:42:47] <Gekkko> I still fail to see how that's a bad thing, unless you're getting at "a killer app" written under GNU standards
[09:42:58] <Gekkko> that can't be easily ported becaues it's written in brainfuck and malborge
[09:42:58] <zvrba> ircuser_about_to: no, because we already do have an official standard
[09:42:59] <Gekkko> lol
[09:43:14] <ircuser_about_to> but solaris is compatible with so many other standards
[09:43:20] <jpipkin> in and of itself, it's not terrible, Linux is fine, but GNU and Unix are not entirely compatible
[09:43:21] <delewis> pjd-, then what's the real with the latest jail-related security advisory? root inside a jail can overwrite any file outside of the jail.
[09:43:45] <Gekkko> do you think OpenSolaris is a good desktop OS?
[09:43:53] <zvrba> whom do you ask?
[09:44:10] <jpipkin> for a workstation @work
[09:44:18] <zvrba> it runs X, ion3, xterm and firefox (maybe even opera) -> it's good
[09:44:19] <zvrba> :P
[09:44:22] <jpipkin> My laptop runs Linux.
[09:44:32] <Gekkko> I was askigng everyone
[09:44:48] <zvrba> yes, there's opera for solaris :D
[09:44:50] <Gekkko> I wonder if it's easier to run a Sega Genesis emulator on OpenSolaris than Linux
[09:45:01] <Gekkko> OH
[09:45:04] <ircuser_about_to> if i had hardware that was better supported by opensolaris (it broke my sound and ethernet didn't work initially... i had to reinstall and then it worked.. no idea why), then maybe i wouldn't be so grouchy with respect to opensolaris
[09:45:06] <Gekkko> fonts on OpenSolaris
[09:45:07] <Tempt> That's the big issue in the desktop arena
[09:45:09] <zvrba> depends on what nonstandard features they used to code it
[09:45:10] <Gekkko> do they make your eyes bleed?
[09:45:11] <Tempt> Does it play Sega games?
[09:45:12] <pjd-> delewis: You haven't read closly. Before jail is started, one can configure file systems to mount in there. One cannot mount file systems from within a jail (it can, but only ZFS), so rc.d/jail script mounts file systems. If root inside a jail changed mountpoint from beeing a directory to beeing a symlink, it was able to redirect the mount.
[09:45:16] <ircuser_about_to> i really wouldn't mind getting a Sun workstation
[09:45:20] <Gekkko> Tempt: damn straight.
[09:45:21] <Gekkko> lol
[09:45:35] <Gekkko> I'd have to say that's the major shortfall of Unix vs Windows
[09:45:37] <Gekkko> emulators.
[09:45:41] <Gekkko> lol
[09:45:55] <pjd-> delewis: There was also a file, which were used by rc.d/jail to create something like dmesg, and store it inside a jail. This file could also be redirected with symlink to outside jail.
[09:46:00] <ircuser_about_to> in case you weren't being sarcastic, it's probably more realistically actual games
[09:46:11] <Gekkko> who needs games.
[09:46:17] <Gekkko> we need emulators.
[09:46:19] <Gekkko> then games.
[09:46:22] <jpipkin> Gekkko:: I didn't have a problem with fontage
[09:46:30] <moazamraja> the ultra 20 is pretty reasonably priced
[09:46:43] <Gekkko> jpipkin: compared to Linux?
[09:46:46] <jpipkin> Gekkko:: http://gallery.dawnrazor.org/v/jpipkin/unix
[09:47:19] <pjd-> delewis: This was simply a bug in rc.d/jail, not jail's design flaw.
[09:47:29] <zvrba> moazamraja: which HW is ultra 20?
[09:47:41] <Tempt> moazamraja: Agreed, everyone should have a U20 if they aren't using a SPARC workstation.
[09:48:16] <Tempt> jpipkin: Cute wallpaper.
[09:48:41] <ircuser_about_to> as a side note, don't you get weird stares from others when you have people come to your desktop? some of those don't look very professional
[09:49:10] <Gekkko> professional?
[09:49:14] <Gekkko> in what sense
[09:49:15] <Gekkko> >_>
[09:49:27] <Gekkko> omg sexy text
[09:49:52] <Gekkko> jpipkin: is that JDS?
[09:49:57] <jpipkin> we were a rather small company, startup-level
[09:50:00] <jpipkin> Gekkko:: yup
[09:50:07] <Gekkko> defaullt theme?
[09:50:19] <jpipkin> iirc
[09:50:41] <jpipkin> it's pretty by default, if that's what you're wondering
[09:50:41] <Gekkko> SunOS 5.11?
[09:50:45] <Gekkko> that's Solaris ... 8?
[09:50:47] <ircuser_about_to> ah
[09:50:50] <jpipkin> opensolaris
[09:50:59] <ircuser_about_to> i really like the freebsd desktop shot
[09:50:59] <jpipkin> recent build, within the last few months or so
[09:51:00] <Gekkko> OpenSolaris... 8?
[09:51:01] <Gekkko> :P
[09:51:16] <Gekkko> well it says SunOS sago2 5.11
[09:51:17] <Gekkko> isn't that old?
[09:51:26] <jpipkin> 5.11 is opensolaris
[09:51:33] <Gekkko> hmm
[09:51:37] <jpipkin> and will be Solaris 11, theoretically
[09:52:14] <jpipkin> anyway... as you can see, the fonts do look as good as you would expect, and the desktop is really quite usable
[09:52:24] <Gekkko> It looks that way
[09:52:35] <Gekkko> my god, I don't understand why Linux has a community at all
[09:52:36] <Gekkko> >_>
[09:52:43] <ircuser_about_to> ?
[09:52:44] <Gekkko> that's like omg.
[09:52:57] <moazamraja> ultra 20 = single cpu, dual or single core AMD, starts at under $1k
[09:53:06] <moazamraja> i thikn $695 or $795
[09:53:07] <Gekkko> http://www.netneurotic.de/mac/unix/images/UNIX.png
[09:53:53] <moazamraja> $896...there u go
[09:53:57] <moazamraja> ack, $895
[09:54:05] <zvrba> moazamraja: oh, nice
[09:54:18] <Gekkko> omg
[09:54:18] <zvrba> moazamraja: where do you get the price from?
[09:54:19] <Gekkko> that's so cheap
[09:54:28] <zvrba> indeed.. i'd go for the dual-core one
[09:55:10] <jpipkin> price: http://www.sun.com/desktop/workstation/ultra20/index.xml
[09:55:31] <zvrba> found it, yes
[09:55:36] <zvrba> nice, that's not too expensive
[09:55:41] <zvrba> even within my budget *G*
[09:56:06] <Gekkko> I love how they sell their OS :P
[09:56:07] <zvrba> With a single AMD Opteron x64-based processor (dual-core),
[09:56:10] <Gekkko> Runs industry-leading Solaris, Linux, and Windows operating systems
[09:56:15] <Gekkko> in order of usefulness :P
[09:56:21] <zvrba> Linux is hardly industry-leading :P
[09:56:30] <zvrba> given usefulness, i'd even switch win and linux :p
[09:56:40] <Gekkko> :o
[09:56:41] <zvrba> win nt kernel is actually nice
[09:56:41] <Gekkko> blasphemy.
[09:56:52] <Gekkko> too bad everything crashes >_>
[09:56:53] <zvrba> google for WRK - windows research kernel
[09:57:03] <zvrba> too bad i don't have time to play with it :(
[09:57:20] <zvrba> Gekkko: that's a fault of crappy WIN32 API layered on top of NT kernel
[09:57:27] <zvrba> NT is derived from VMS
[09:57:36] <Gekkko> I know.
[09:57:53] <Gekkko> I found that out like a week ago :P
[09:58:08] <Gekkko> and I know the kernel doesn't crash everything
[09:58:19] <jpipkin> anyway
[09:58:20] <Gekkko> I hate privaledges on Windows
[09:58:25] <jpipkin> kernel can be made of gold
[09:58:28] <Gekkko> it's so fucked.
[09:58:35] <jpipkin> if the rest of the system is broke, it hardly matters.
[09:58:56] <zvrba> no, privileges under win are very flexible
[09:58:57] <Tempt> http://mexico.purplecow.org/tmp/screen1.jpg
[09:59:00] <zvrba> much better than under unix
[09:59:04] <zvrba> but harder to get right, yes
[09:59:25] <zvrba> ok, ultra 20 has *only* dual-core CPU.. nice :D
[09:59:28] <delewis> Tempt, what window manager is that?
[09:59:33] <Tempt> fluxbox
[09:59:36] <delewis> cool.
[09:59:48] <Gekkko> Openbox is nicer than Fluxbox
[09:59:51] <Tempt> fluxbox + rxvt + screen = my desktop environment.
[09:59:55] <delewis> http://www.flickr.com/photos/85894987@N00/1009753894/in/photostream/
[10:00:01] <delewis> new desk arrangement.
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[10:00:12] <Gekkko> that's screen?
[10:00:15] <Gekkko> GNU Screen?
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[10:00:32] <Tempt> screen, the one and only screen
[10:00:44] <Gekkko> there's a screen other than GNU Screen?
[10:00:46] <Gekkko> >_>
[10:00:47] <Tempt> delewis: Say, that's a familiar looking workstation ;)
[10:01:11] <Tempt> and that is one tidy looking desk.
[10:01:12] <delewis> yep, I've got an XVR-1000 in there nowadays for the flat panel.
[10:02:06] <Tempt> XVR-600 in mine.
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[10:02:26] <Gekkko> Tempt: it's a nice irssi theme too
[10:02:26] <Tempt> If you want to see my messy, messy office surroundings there's some pix at http://www.purplecow.org/pix/office1
[10:02:36] <delewis> I wanted the OpenGL performance the XVR-1000 offers, too. I can do fullscreen OpenGL video.
[10:02:45] <delewis> useful for watching DVDs and BSG episodes. :-)
[10:03:03] <moazamraja> heh, since we're sharing
[10:03:04] <moazamraja> http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixville/265173194/
[10:03:09] <Tempt> Yep. The XVR-600 does the same stuff for video watching.
[10:03:16] <delewis> really? wow.
[10:03:20] <moazamraja> (I just added a 30" display, but haven't taken a pic yet)
[10:03:23] <jpipkin> Tempt:: okay, the cabling on that Cisco says it all
[10:03:38] <Tempt> The mess or the number of cables?
[10:03:49] <Tempt> or the little LCD with scrolling message?
[10:04:14] <jpipkin> ...
[10:04:15] <jpipkin> yes
[10:04:16] <zvrba> hm, total price with extra RAM: $1105
[10:04:31] <zvrba> that's actually not too bad given the specs and guaranteed compatibility with Solaris
[10:04:34] <zvrba> wow
[10:04:37] <jpipkin> it looks like the stuff I used to see in our data center
[10:04:58] <Tempt> Man, you guys have horribly tidy workspaces.
[10:05:14] <zvrba> damn, I want that machine :D
[10:05:33] <Tempt> My desk is covered in coffee mugs, CDs, hardware, and dust.
[10:05:34] <Gekkko> you shuold see mine
[10:05:34] <moazamraja> my issue with the Ultra 20 is the max 8GB of RAM
[10:05:37] <zvrba> and I need it for research anyway, and i have even a budget.. nice :D
[10:05:38] <zvrba> :P
[10:05:41] <moazamraja> i need an Ultra 40 for more RAM
[10:05:42] <Gekkko> it had 14 cheese rwappers yesterday
[10:06:01] <Gekkko> wrappers even.
[10:07:52] <jpipkin> um
[10:07:53] <jpipkin> gross.
[10:08:30] <Gekkko> hmm
[10:08:33] <Gekkko> 3 socks
[10:08:39] <Gekkko> 4 assorted manuals
[10:08:42] <Gekkko> and a spindle of about 1000 cds.
[10:08:52] <Tempt> socks on the desk, huh.
[10:08:55] <Tempt> classy look.
[10:09:00] <Gekkko> lol
[10:09:01] <Gekkko> I've lost one >_>
[10:09:10] <Gekkko> oh shit
[10:09:16] <Gekkko> I juts found 100 blank CDs
[10:09:19] <Gekkko> must be xmas.
[10:09:22] <Tempt> I won't be having a tidy desk again until I pick up my new LCD, and then I'll have everything looking shiny for at least a week
[10:09:27] <Tempt> Must take a photo.
[10:09:48] <Gekkko> I couldn't live without dual monitors
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[10:10:35] <Gekkko> what's opensolaris's boot manager?
[10:11:53] <zvrba> does it have one?
[10:12:06] <emergo> I cant install sql2000 server in win2000server on within qemu. Some mdac error, neither service pack 4 can be installed.. IS Qemu crap ? is there an option ?
[10:12:35] <emergo> Gekkko: grub ?
[10:14:01] <Tempt> More hackjob photos at http://www.purplecow.org/pix/880sata
[10:14:28] <zvrba> emergo: why not use vmware server?
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[10:14:30] <zvrba> it's free
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[10:14:57] <zvrba> qemu isn't crap, but not that good either
[10:15:20] <Gekkko> VirtualBox sucks.
[10:15:25] <Gekkko> <_<
[10:16:20] <zvrba> and running sqlserver within windows within emulation ... = speed of 33 MHz 386
[10:16:23] <zvrba> i'd guess :P
[10:16:27] <zvrba> so what's the point?
[10:16:41] <jpipkin> masochism, perhaps
[10:16:48] <moazamraja> run postgresql in a solaris zone :P
[10:16:55] <moazamraja> <-- not very helpful
[10:17:00] <zvrba> sqlserver > postgres
[10:17:09] <zvrba> untoftunate, but true
[10:17:46] <moazamraja> possibly, I don't much about either.
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[10:20:48] <Gekkko> I always read PostgreSQL as Post gay SQL
[10:20:49] <Gekkko> >_>
[10:20:53] <Gekkko> I am slightly dyslexic
[10:20:58] <Gekkko> ttyl :D
[10:20:59] <tomww> heh :-)
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[10:32:39] <WickedWicky> hey all
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[10:39:12] <emergo> zvrba: I run sqlserver withing vmware but they dont make any for opensolaris and not buying an esx licens ....
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[10:43:30] <zvrba> emergo: ah. but why change something which is working?
[10:43:43] <zvrba> or.. why not just install windows on that machine and be done with it?
[10:44:46] <zvrba> yes, yes, blasphemy, but - if it works, why "fix" it?
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[10:47:24] <emergo> zvrba: I need the computer its on !
[10:48:25] <emergo> and I already have a opensolaris box which dont do much so I thouhgt id move it it over. My other option is to remove opensolaris and install debian and move it all
[10:49:51] <emergo> Trying to get as few boxes as possible. 2 insted of 3 makes for better ear around here ...
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[11:52:20] <Symmetria> hey all
[11:52:49] <Symmetria> quick question, is there any planned mpls support for solaris?
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[12:32:11] <Doc> why would you want MPLS support in solaris?
[12:33:29] <quasi> to not give $$ to cisco?
[12:34:10] <Mdx4> MPLS in solaris ?
[12:35:43] <Symmetria> heh mpls in solaris would be rather nice when combined with certain routing software (quagga or others) and dedicated ip zones for building test / dev routers
[12:35:46] <richlowe> http://opensolaris.org/os/project/mpls/
[12:35:47] <Symmetria> for testing configs etc
[12:36:21] <richlowe> though that doesn't really answer Doc's question. :)
[12:37:15] <Symmetria> heh richlowe I just told him why I want mpls in solaris :) to build test/development routing instances in zones to save me having to buy a ton of routers :)
[12:37:16] <Doc> personally i think giving $$ to cisco is a far better idea than Solaris MPLS support
[12:37:28] <Symmetria> doc heh, I wouldnt run mpls in solaris in production :)
[12:37:36] <richlowe> Doc: Your opinion on such things is not entirely pure though.
[12:37:41] <richlowe> assuming my memory is accurate.
[12:37:58] <delewis> if you wouldn't run it in production, it shouldn't be in Solaris.
[12:37:59] <Doc> you're implying that my answer might be based on the fact i now work for cisco?
[12:38:06] * Symmetria runs cisco in production heh, lots of it :)
[12:38:17] <richlowe> Doc: Yeah, "It's better to pay my wages than to not do so". :)
[12:38:18] <Symmetria> doc you work for crisco? neat, what section?
[12:38:32] <Doc> IronPort, a Cisco Business Unit
[12:38:39] <Symmetria> heh we just spent a *ton* of money with cisco
[12:39:28] <Symmetria> heh 2 weeks ago I ordered 8 x 7609-S with dual RSP720 and 16 x ES-20 with ER optics
[12:39:53] <Symmetria> heh bout to order 4 x CRS-1 4slot and 35 x ONS 15454 with a bunch of WXE's
[12:40:06] <Symmetria> (I.E I dont want mpls in solaris to NOT pay cisco money, I just want it for easy labbing)
[12:41:09] <jamesd_> well i will be home in an hour, then i'm heading off to bed... good night all.
[12:41:09] <Symmetria> doc, ironport = mail scrubbing?
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[12:43:35] <richlowe> bloody imap
[12:43:36] <Doc> something like that
[12:43:59] <delewis> still get to touch Solaris and Sun gear?
[12:44:20] <Symmetria> doc *nod* I didnt realize cisco had bought ironport, we thought about using it, but the per mailbox licensing just made it completely unrealistic
[12:44:24] <richlowe> delewis: now why would anyone want to do *that*? :)
[12:44:31] <Symmetria> (it was ironport that wanted per mailbox licensing if I remeber correctly)
[12:45:08] <Doc> anyone serious will do per user licensing
[12:45:30] <delewis> Groupwise, JES, etc. are that way.
[12:45:55] <Symmetria> heh doc, well, we have 680 thousand mailboxes behind our network
[12:46:04] <Symmetria> that makes it completely and totally and utterly unrealistic
[12:46:05] <richlowe> So?
[12:46:10] <Symmetria> in pricing wise
[12:46:10] <richlowe> That just means you get to buy Doc a yacht ;)
[12:46:30] <delewis> most products offer unlimited licensing past a certain point.
[12:46:31] <WickedWicky> which means we have a place to party at, I dont see the problem
[12:46:34] <delewis> JES does, IIRC.
[12:46:45] <delewis> (of course, the unlimited license runs around $30,000)
[12:46:56] <Symmetria> heh we have a new way of doing this, each of our institutions gets a solaris zone on a group of high powered zones, they can get set up whatever they want on it, and we dont manage it, its done per institution
[12:47:14] <Symmetria> that way they can implement whatever scrubbing they want at whatever cost they want
[12:47:15] <Symmetria> *shrug*
[12:47:22] <Doc> symmetria: we've got many customers with more than that...
[12:47:27] <Symmetria> as an NREN we cant afford to pay licensing for that many users though
[12:47:36] <Doc> in fact, there's a price break at a million
[12:47:39] <Symmetria> doc, we're an nren, we're non-profit and we make no money off it and have no way to charge it to the users
[12:47:49] <Symmetria> because the users = students
[12:47:56] <delewis> what collaboration suite are you guys currently using then?
[12:47:57] <Symmetria> therefore there is no realistic cost recovery model
[12:48:03] <Doc> that's where price negotiation comes in
[12:48:20] <Symmetria> doc *nod* I'll give some... friends in cisco emea a call and chat to them
[12:48:25] <Doc> i'm currently talking to one non-profit with > 1 million users
[12:48:30] <Symmetria> now that I know cisco owns iron port
[12:48:51] <Symmetria> I'll take it through the normal people we meet, I'm meeting with some of the execs on the 15th in London, will chat to them there
[12:49:08] <Doc> you'll need to talk to the ironport ppl, not the cisco ppl
[12:49:41] <Symmetria> heh doc, probably, but will get that organized through cisco if they are owned by cisco :) cause I have a... very fixed line of communicatoin with cisco that I prefer to stick to
[12:50:32] <WickedWicky> so can we set a kind of fixed date for that yacht party then?
[12:50:38] <Doc> we're an independant business unit.  the cisco guys cant sell ironport, they just refer you to us
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[13:07:20] <lloy0076> Has anyone had any issues with Object C and SXCE?
[13:08:10] <lloy0076> !@!@#!!@##!@#!@
[13:08:25] <lloy0076> Ignore that question.
[13:08:30] <lloy0076> It's suddenly decided to work again.
[13:09:45] <Doc> glad we could help
[13:10:25] <WickedWicky> lol
[13:11:09] <lloy0076> heh
[13:11:17] <WickedWicky> well, it almost makes you deliver a baby but then you really get something in return
[13:11:23] * WickedWicky popped 90.000 mails from gmail
[13:11:39] <lloy0076> I was fiddling with GNUstep and had twiddle the library load path with CRLE and think I made my objective c environment fall over.
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[13:13:28] <lloy0076> Google is weird: I type in: "Object C netbeans" and the first article is: "EclipseZone - Objective C in eclipse? ..."
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[13:14:23] <richlowe> but eclipse is shiny and cool, or whatever.
[13:14:40] <richlowe> because through the ages, nothing has epitomised "cool" like IBM ;)
[13:14:44] <WickedWicky> prolly whatever
[13:14:47] <WickedWicky> LOL
[13:14:54] <WickedWicky> IBM is kinda cool
[13:14:58] <lloy0076> They're both quite good; I much prefer to develop Java EE on Netbeans though; I find it more intuitive
[13:15:14] <WickedWicky> I amnot a big fan of Java in general to be honest
[13:16:47] <lloy0076> I don't mind Java myself; I tend to stick with Perl or Java.
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[13:16:59] <lloy0076> Everyone thinks: Perl && Java -- what a bizarre combo :P
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[13:17:22] <WickedWicky> awww, I am asked to help a poor girl in nigeria out with some money her father left her *snif8
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[13:17:33] <WickedWicky> I wonder if this will ever stop
[13:18:30] <lloy0076> WickedWicky: Only when gullible idiots don't exist.
[13:19:09] <WickedWicky> aka: never
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[13:33:36] <asyd> hmm, if i uninstall/reinstall a zone, that remove all files (included extra data) or only the system? I don't remember
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[13:47:23] <quasi> Use  this subcommand  with  caution.  It  removes all of the files under the zonepath of the zone in question.
[13:47:57] <asyd> ok, that I thought
[13:49:17] <asyd> an
[13:49:18] <asyd> oups
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[14:13:38] <WickedWicky> ROAR
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[14:14:39] <Gekkko[PDA]> Compiz for Solaris?
[14:15:45] <oxygene> overrated
[14:16:22] <Gekkko[PDA]> it exists?
[14:16:24] <Gekkko[PDA]> :o
[14:17:59] <asyd> that's, we bought some usbkeys yesterday to play with zfs
[14:18:08] <asyd> but rmformat detect two disk per key
[14:18:35] <asyd> and even after a dd it found a pcfs
[14:19:27] <Gekkko[PDA]> borktastico!
[14:19:42] <salamanders> could anyone use nVidia 8500gt on solaris ?
[14:20:21] <salamanders> i couldn't drive it even now...
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[14:31:57] <flyingparchment> i have several directories, named 2007-08-2, 2007-08-03, etc.. i want to, in shell script, find all directories who names are older than 7 days.  any suggestions?
[14:36:42] <jmcp> find * -mtime +7    ?
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[14:41:35] <flyingparchment> hmm, i was hoping to do it based on the directory name, but i guess i can use find too
[14:42:43] <quasi> calculating dates would be a pain with the date that comes with solaris - but fairly simple to do in something like perl
[14:45:26] <salamanders> flyingparchment: date -d '-1 days' +%Y%m%d
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[14:46:01] <flyingparchment> date: illegal option -- d
[14:46:32] <salamanders> which distribution?
[14:46:37] <flyingparchment> S10
[14:46:48] <quasi> in perl I'd just use something like ($sec,$min,$hour,$mday,$mon,$year,$wday,$yday,$isdst) = localtime(time()-86400*$days_ago))
[14:47:00] <quasi> salamanders: that's a linuxism
[14:49:52] <quasi> flyingparchment: another way to do it could be a simple ls | head
[14:50:01] <quasi> or something to that effect
[14:50:18] <flyingparchment> hmm, right, ls will sort in name order, won't it?
[14:50:57] <quasi> yeah
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[14:51:14] <salamanders> TZ=$TZ+24 date '+DATE: %m-%d-%y%n'
[14:52:21] <salamanders> this would work in solaris
[14:53:54] <flyingparchment> think i'll do with ls -1r | sed 1,7d
[14:55:03] <quasi> salamanders: ah, that's pretty cool
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[14:55:20] <salamanders> :)
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[16:10:14] <tomww> flyingparchment: ls -1r | sed 1,7d
[16:10:49] <tomww> flyingparchment: sorry,this one here: perl -e'use strict 'vars'; use POSIX qw(strftime); use Time::Local; my $maxageseconds=24*60*60*17; my $time = scalar(time)-$maxageseconds; print strftime("%Y%m%d", localtime($time)), "";'
[16:10:50] <flyingparchment> isn't that exactly what i just said?
[16:11:18] <tomww> sorry, this was in the copy/paste buffer :-)
[16:12:35] <tomww> with the perl line you could calculate the date-string, and if you remove the dashes "-" you could tell expr to calculate if the "name" of the diry is lower/higher then the perl-calculated one
[16:13:09] <estibi> hi all
[16:14:13] <tomww> flyingparchment: something like: loop over the dirys, [ "0" == `expr $cleaneddiryname \> $TIMESTAMP`"" ] && echo rm -r $diry
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[16:20:19] <flyingparchment> hm. QFS is not integrated with FMA :(
[16:21:17] <bda> Neither is the SCSI subsystem (or I haven't seen bits that are yet).
[16:21:27] <bda> (Sol10u3 anyway)
[16:21:29] * bda runs away.
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[16:31:06] <aitiba> hi
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[16:31:33] <aitiba> is the opensolaris installer cd a live-cd?
[16:32:08] <flyingparchment> depends which opensolaris you install
[16:32:24] <flyingparchment> the solaris express installer is not a live cd, but you can get a minimal single-user shell from it
[16:32:55] <aitiba> flyingparchment, belenix?
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[16:33:38] <flyingparchment> no idea about that
[16:34:26] <aitiba> flyingparchment, do you know a distribution that have a live-cd?
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[16:45:07] <Pietro_S> aitiba: belemix is live-cd distribution (it has some feature to install to disk, but I never try it and I wouldn't recomend it)
[16:45:50] <aitiba> Pietro_S, which one do you remend me?
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[17:02:27] <quasi> http://get.opensolaris.org
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[17:15:12] <Pietro_S> aitiba: if you want live-cd, pick belemix if you want distro on your disk pick latest sxce (follow quasi advice)
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[17:33:37] <Symmetria> anyone know if the mysql clustering stuff is in the blastwave mysql release?
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[18:13:47] <flyingparchment> Symmetria: you're going to use blastwave mysql on a system important enough to use clustering?
[18:14:07] <Symmetria> flyingparchment heh me? no, I was asking for someone else who asked me
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[18:26:18] <psiekl> inne klasy znam o tyle o ile potrzebuje jako hunter
[18:28:07] <WickedWicky> you know what?
[18:28:23] <WickedWicky> ne znam nista
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[19:23:20] <networkdump> hello
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[20:03:02] <tek-ops> hi
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[20:04:52] <jamesd_> hi
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[20:31:02] <WickedWicky> And patrick? What did you do today?
[20:31:11] <WickedWicky> Well absolutely nothing, waiting for onnv to compile.
[20:31:17] <WickedWicky> oh? and how did that go?
[20:31:23] <WickedWicky> http://pastebin.com/m776bbbf0
[20:31:26] <WickedWicky> SNIF
[20:31:36] <WickedWicky> brb, coffee
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[20:45:10] <paul_f> hello
[20:45:40] <jamesd_> hi
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[20:48:06] <WickedWicky> ello
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[22:09:21] <networkdump> I would like to know if most of "^ROOT.*" variables defined in Makefiles reflect the destination where the file will be installed
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[22:15:41] <sickness> did SUNW distribute incomes?
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[22:16:07] <sickness> (to share holders)
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[22:28:48] <TomJ> that's what public companies generally do
[22:30:13] <richlowe> networkdump: mostly, yes.
[22:31:00] <richlowe> ROOT points at the proto area ($CODEMGR_WS/proto/root_$MACH), $ROOT-relative paths reflect the path within the proto area, and thus eventual install location.
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[22:35:26] <WickedWicky> palowoda!
[22:35:27] <WickedWicky> brandon_!
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[22:36:06] <palowoda> Whats up.
[22:36:19] <WickedWicky> not much
[22:36:24] <WickedWicky> the temperature in my house
[22:36:58] <palowoda> It finally cooled down here.  Other than that it was hot the past week.
[22:38:01] <networkdump> richlowe: thank you
[22:39:00] <palowoda> Anyone enable the postgresql8.2 in build 69?  Is it working properly?
[22:39:55] <networkdump> When you modify ROOT definitions in Makefile, are path in sources files also modified?
[22:39:57] <WickedWicky> not me, nope
[22:40:00] <tomww> it works if I set PATH=/usr/postgres/8.2/bin:$PATH ...
[22:40:21] <palowoda> Ah, I'll try that.
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[22:41:03] <networkdump> or they only affect the copy/install process
[22:43:16] <networkdump> I would like to work on a FHS compliant OpenSolaris, for educationnal purpose of learning build system, and I'm wondering if the current model allow this.
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[22:47:47] <tomww> palowoda: and try pgsl -h localhost template1 also
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[22:53:20] <palowoda> tomww: Got it running, thanks.  Had some of my old sql envionment which was causing the failure.
[22:54:26] <tomww> big or small application on postgres? I'm askin gbecause I try to ever use postgres instead ot the other (halfway-)free databases.... :)
[22:55:24] <coffman> tomww: instead of mysql? :P
[22:55:34] <tomww> exactly
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[22:56:47] <palowoda> I'll see if I can get Vtiger running with postgres.
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[22:59:16] <coffman> vtiger? isnt that sugar crm?
[22:59:49] <palowoda> I think it's better than sugar.  I think vtiger split off from sugar crm long time ago.
[23:00:10] <palowoda> At least you can have group control policies.
[23:00:39] <coffman> palowoda: hm, you mean you get that without the pay version?
[23:01:06] <palowoda> It runs fine on opensolaris with mysql 5.0.x, and yes you get that without the pay version.  It was Sugar that started all the pay crap.
[23:01:48] <coffman> yes, i know
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[23:03:56] <coffman> i did alot of research on a groupeware a while ago for my last company, but i never finished the job :(
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[23:04:41] <coffman> would love to do some work again in that field
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[23:05:45] <coffman> http://opengroupware.org looked quite nice, its in objective-C
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[23:07:02] <palowoda> I was doing this for a none profit.  Didn't want to spend so much time on Sugar.  I can deal with all the little problems of Vtiger and Vtiger seems to be on a very fast development  cycle.  I wouldn't touch the old 4.x version of vtiger though.
[23:08:24] <coffman> i did some test install back then with sugar since it had the most "features", vtiger seems nice too - still i would prefer something without php
[23:08:59] <trygvis> if what os x call "UNIX File System" the same as solaris' ufs?
[23:10:18] <richlowe> few of the ufs/ffs's are "the same" enough.
[23:11:09] <coffman> i dont think there is any kind of interop between ufs versions on different plattforms
[23:11:48] <richlowe> linux does it (to some degree, I guess) via a slew of mount options.
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[23:12:20] <palowoda> linux can mount a solaris ufs in say read only?
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[23:12:32] <richlowe> never trusted it enough to try, but I think it's intended to.
[23:12:53] <trygvis> so which UFS is it? os x never used ufs, did it?
[23:12:57] <palowoda> Haven't trusted it enough either.
[23:12:59] <WickedWicky> you can enable UFS partition in Linux
[23:13:03] <WickedWicky> and then mount the slices
[23:13:16] <WickedWicky> I did it in the past to read FreeBSD slices
[23:13:27] <richlowe> trygvis: I'd assume its origins are with NeXT's.
[23:13:28] <coffman> freebsd lol
[23:13:40] <coffman> they have some extra fucked up ufs now
[23:13:54] <WickedWicky> do they? when I say past I mean like, 3 years ago
[23:14:04] <richlowe> I'd assume he means ufs2.
[23:14:05] <palowoda> So linux can understand solaris partitions now?
[23:14:12] <WickedWicky> well
[23:14:13] <WickedWicky> lol
[23:14:14] <coffman> no other system can read it, yes ufs2
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[23:14:17] <WickedWicky> linux is fun
[23:14:27] <WickedWicky> since linux swap and solaris partitions share the same partition id
[23:14:36] <richlowe> used to, SOLARIS2 is a different id.
[23:14:38] <coffman> and freebsd 3 years okay was not so fucked up then it is today
[23:14:40] <richlowe> (for pretty much that reason, I think)
[23:15:03] <coffman> */okay/ago
[23:15:04] <WickedWicky> I guess
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[23:15:13] <WickedWicky> anyway, UFS should be mountable under Linux
[23:15:26] <WickedWicky> but then again, this is 2007, everything is possible
[23:16:39] <WickedWicky> I am not even sure if linux has a clue about Solaris2
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[23:18:21] <noyb> hi there, Gman
[23:18:26] <Gman> hey hey
[23:18:28] <noyb> LTNC
[23:18:49] <noyb> long time, no chat...   :-)
[23:18:54] <Gman> yeah, i've actually just come out of a weekend where i didn't turn on my laptop
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[23:19:04] <noyb> good job!
[23:19:19] * Gman had an awesome day up on the hills carving some lines on his snowboard
[23:19:36] <noyb> much better than clicking away at the keyboard.
[23:20:06] <noyb> Gman: do you find that snowboarding is easier on the knees?
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[23:21:19] <noyb> skiing is out of the question for me.  bad knee.  I wanted to know if you think there is less strain on the knee on snowboard.
[23:21:22] <Gman> noyb, if you get up to a level where it comes naturally, sure
[23:21:54] <noyb> I've seen people struggling with SB, so I'm not so sure about that.
[23:22:19] <noyb> anyway... welcome back
[23:22:42] <noyb> you got a hand in the new packaging thing?
[23:22:43] <Gman> noyb, takes a few days to get to learn
[23:22:53] <Gman> noyb, i've seen it, even provided a patch, but not much else
[23:23:09] <Gman> 'coming soon [tm]' (if people haven't posted about it already in my unread mail)
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[23:23:52] <noyb> I saw a good write up from Hahn about it.  I'm really looking forward to it.
[23:23:59] <coffman> well, i think its better for your knees since you are mutch more unlikely to twist in a funky way
[23:24:04] <jbk> anyone seen dclarke around?
[23:24:15] <WickedWicky> not for the past days, no
[23:24:21] <quasi> jbk: not for a few days
[23:24:29] <jbk> ok.. need him to turn a box back on for me..
[23:24:38] <jbk> i think i'm ready to test this thing out...
[23:25:00] <jbk> complete with all the mind-numbing corner cases
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[23:35:32] <Symmetria> hrm, in solaris whats the command to mount a directory as a loopback of another directory
[23:35:45] <Symmetria> I've done this before I just cant remeber the syntax to do it
[23:35:47] <jmcp_> mount -F lofs /path/to/dir /path/to/mountpoint
[23:35:50] <LeftWing> mount -F lofs <srcdir> <dstdir>
[23:35:51] <Symmetria> thanks
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[23:36:23] <LeftWing> jmcp_: Damn you morning people. :)
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[23:38:17] <jmcp_> LeftWing: I'm about to go and get my coffee ... but I've been awake since 0545
[23:45:05] <jmcp_> good morning one-n-all
[23:48:16] <networkdump> any news or papers on the new packaging thing?
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[23:50:47] <headius> ok, I'm gonna ask the $65k question and probably get kicked for it, but here goes:
[23:51:13] <headius> Are there any nevada-based distributions that have a mainstream package-management system AND are reasonably release-quality?
[23:51:27] <headius> nexenta is very promising, but alpha scares me too much
[23:51:51] <rootard> and Nexenta is very alpha.
[23:51:56] <jmcp_> networkdump: nope
[23:52:01] <headius> that's what I gathered...hmmm
[23:52:04] <richlowe> jmcp_: hah
[23:52:09] <tsoome> mainstream == some gnu crap?
[23:52:10] <richlowe> jmcp_: I like the bug you linked on zfs-discuss
[23:52:23] <jmcp_> richlowe: yes, I did look at it in b.o.o before I posted
[23:52:35] <jmcp_> with any luck, Lida will update the description to something more useful
[23:53:04] <headius> mainstream == easy
[23:53:13] <headius> feel free to substitute in your mind
[23:53:28] <networkdump> richlowe: When you modify ROOT definitions in Makefile, are path in sources files also modified?
[23:53:41] <tsoome> like apt-get to wipe out your system?;)
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[23:53:46] <networkdump> or it's simply the copy/install process in make file that are affected
[23:53:47] <headius> yep, like that
[23:54:11] <jmcp_> networkdump: what are you really asking?
[23:54:34] <networkdump> I'm looking at the Makefile layout
[23:55:00] <networkdump> I would like to remodel the fs hierarchy, for educationnal purpose
[23:56:18] <networkdump> right now I'm trying to find out if I'll have to modify gazillions of files
[23:57:39] <jmcp_> what sort of remodelling are you thinking of
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[23:58:17] <networkdump> FHS 2.3
[23:58:31] <jmcp_> networkdump: that means absolutely nothing to me
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[23:59:04] <networkdump> example, move all /lib to /usr/lib
[23:59:23] <jmcp_> networkdump: have you looked at the filesystem layout on an installed Solaris system?
[23:59:28] <networkdump> yes
[23:59:43] <networkdump> I'm just pointing out an example, this is not what I want to do





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