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[00:03:32] <migi> jmcp, thanks it worked
[00:03:55] <hile_> and use the the right options to mkisofs
[00:04:06] <hile_> remember the fun we had with that one when trying to make an ISO of a CD, jmcp?
[00:04:11] <jmcp> yeah
[00:04:18] * jmcp shudders
[00:05:00] <hile_> ended up being strings sol_blah_iso | head
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[00:09:28] <hrlmec2> How would I move a mirrored storage pool from one set of drives to another?
[00:09:57] <sommerfeld> zpool replace of individual drives
[00:10:53] <sommerfeld> (or attach/detaches equivalent to the replace)
[00:11:17] <hrlmec2> That will work even if the pool is currently on two slices and we're moving it to full drives?
[00:11:45] <sommerfeld> i haven't done that but it's worth a try
[00:11:54] <hrlmec2> k...thanks. :)
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[00:14:41] <Xbot> putback to X_NV gate: 6580970 Xorg Server 1.3 [PSARC/2007/434]
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[00:14:48] <alanc> 8-)
[00:14:50] <stevel> lol
[00:15:23] <stevel> what does Xorg Server 1.3 buy us?
[00:15:26] <stevel> it sounds important
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[00:16:42] <BatonT> hrlmec2: yes that should work...  ive moved drives in a zpool to larger drives to increase storage of the zpool
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[00:19:36] <EchoBinary> how are share permissions handled with NFS?
[00:20:31] <alanc> stevel - it's not that big a jump from what we had (Xorg 1.2) - mostly it gives us XRandR 1.2, aka video output hotplug
[00:20:56] <alanc> so you can plug a projector or monitor into your laptop and just run xrandr to activate it without having to restart your server
[00:20:57] <nachox> EchoBinary, they are standard unix permisions, what do you mean?
[00:21:31] <alanc> though initially, only the intel driver has support for it, since they wrote RandR 1.2 and used their driver to test it
[00:22:05] <stevel> alanc: huh, we didn't have that already?  i thought i had done that with my laptop already
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[00:22:36] <EchoBinary> i thought so
[00:22:41] <EchoBinary> am confused then
[00:22:57] <EchoBinary> using opensolaris to run nfs shares
[00:22:58] <EchoBinary> set up one
[00:23:03] <alanc> stevel: there's a hack in the Radeon driver to do it, but most people get it by having the output port always configured to be on, which draws power even when nothing is plugged in
[00:23:12] <EchoBinary> and then tried to mount on a xubuntu client
[00:23:31] <EchoBinary> no dice, xubuntu reports that the server said "permission denied"
[00:24:00] <EchoBinary> server and dlient are on the same network
[00:24:16] <alanc> so yes, Xorg 1.3 is not really that big a jump for us
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[00:24:39] <nachox> it is the latest?
[00:25:03] <alanc> oh, it does also allow Direct Rendering clients (like apps using DRI/OpenGL) to report damage events so compositing managers like compiz can reflect the changes
[00:25:23] <alanc> nachox: it's the latest actually released from X.Org - it came out in April, so we're a bit behind
[00:25:43] <alanc> Xorg 1.4 is planned for X11R7.3 next month, but that release may be slipping
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[00:26:06] <nachox> i'm not complaining :) i'm sure it's really hard work to do that while porting the xsun stuff to xorg too
[00:26:45] <alanc> fortunately, I'm not doing much work on porting Xsun stuff to Xorg
[00:27:19] <alanc> now that I'm done with 1.3, I'm back on integrating Xvnc with our Xorg tree, and getting our mercurial gate setup on opensolaris.org
[00:28:55] <nachox> hehe, i remember you saying that you were taking the mercurial manual with you for the weekend
[00:29:50] <alanc> yeah - haven't gotten started on that really yet
[00:30:13] <alanc> as you can tell by the lack of me either cursing stevel or peppering stevel & richlowe with stupid Hg questions
[00:30:17] <stevel> alanc: i'm using the intel driver, and compiz wouldn't work because it was missing the damage stuff - so maybe that means i can get compiz up :)
[00:30:42] <WickedWicky> hey all
[00:31:37] <nachox> alanc, on the other hand stevel is harrassing you :P thank god there's payback
[00:32:13] <alanc> stevel: ah, I hadn't realized compiz was complaining - only run it on nvidia systems myself
[00:33:04] <stevel> alanc: yeah, all the docs said "ONLY WORKS ON NVIDIA SYSTEMS". so i went ahead and tried it on my intel system (once i got DRI/OpenGL working) anyway
[00:33:53] <alanc> well, try again once you upgrade to nv_71 and see if it's happier
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[00:34:25] <stevel> will do
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[00:36:48] <boyd> Morning, all
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[00:37:12] <boyd> I see that Wildcat is dead...
[00:38:02] <jmcp> boyd: it got torn apart by wild dogs
[00:38:09] <timelyx> hi jmcp
[00:38:21] <boyd> jmcp: Heh..
[00:38:45] <boyd> And here was I thinking it starved while sitting on the shelf...
[00:38:54] <jmcp> hi timelyx
[00:39:05] <jmcp> boyd: I'm sure there was at least one customer who bought one
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[00:39:24] <timelyx> jmcp: so, are there any people here i should pass that url around to?
[00:40:46] <boyd> I may be going crazy, but src/uts is all kernel, right? So how come the fix for "6367770 RFE: add userland interface to fem (file event monitoring)" is all changes to files under uts?
[00:40:58] <jmcp> timelyx: which url?
[00:41:07] <timelyx> http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/134/
[00:41:09] <jmcp> boyd: ioctls, perhaps
[00:41:17] <boyd> Surely there should at least be a header
[00:41:37] <jmcp> timelyx: you could pass it to richlowe, stevel, gman....
[00:41:49] * timelyx pokes stevel
[00:41:50] <boyd> Actually it looks like it's using even ports, but still... a header would be expected..
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[00:42:12] <Gman> jmcp, hrm?
[00:42:12] * timelyx tries to decide if Gman (idle 89 mins) is around
[00:42:28] <jmcp> Gman: timelyx wanted feedback on http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/134/ - regarding DTS
[00:42:29] * Gman really fucking busy, but what's up?
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[00:42:35] * jmcp backs off
[00:42:46] <purserj> he's around, however he is in a constant battle to prevent the sheep from disconnecting him
[00:42:58] <timelyx> it's nearly 2am here
[00:43:02] <timelyx> i think the sheep are closer to me
[00:43:04] <Gman> timelyx, your comments are in blue?
[00:43:05] <nachox> Gman: indiana stuff?
[00:43:18] <timelyx> Gman: my comments are unfortunately in various colors
[00:43:29] <timelyx> the ones that say "mkanat" instead of "timeless" aren't mine :)
[00:43:37] <Gman> i'm confused
[00:43:38] <timelyx> i was feeling colorful
[00:43:47] <timelyx> simple comments from me are in yellow
[00:43:52] <Gman> ok
[00:43:56] <timelyx> if something confused me, i might have colored them in other colors
[00:43:59] <Gman> you're probably better pushing this to tools-discuss
[00:44:00] <jmcp> timelyx: here in oz we describe crims as "colourful racing identities"
[00:44:07] <Gman> and replying to the thread that stephen started
[00:44:18] <Gman> [as nice as it is to see you getting involved - keep at it, you rock]
[00:44:19] <boyd> jmcp: :)
[00:44:36] <jmcp> and boyd has more of them in Melbourne
[00:44:44] <timelyx> jmcp: interesting...
[00:44:49] <boyd> We breed 'em down here...
[00:44:56] <timelyx> I think i used red for "that's scary, you don't really want to do that"
[00:45:05] <boyd> Although lately they've been "Notorious Underworld Figures"
[00:45:11] <timelyx> and it looks like green was "i don't get it"
[00:45:19] <sommerfeld> boyd: it defines new manifest constants visible through the event ports interface
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[00:45:33] <sommerfeld> (FEM, that is)
[00:46:21] <timelyx> Gman: so um... how do i reply to a message that i didn't receive? i'd like to not break threading :)
[00:46:35] <sommerfeld> PORT_SOURCE_FILE, "struct file_obj", assorted FILE_* events, etc.,
[00:46:41] <Gman> timelyx, download the archive from mail.opensolaris.org
[00:46:59] <timelyx> hrm, that requires a mail client, i wonder if i have one of those somewhere :)
[00:47:06] <boyd> sommerfeld: So, where to I find those interfaces defined for userspace?
[00:47:25] <Gman> timelyx, reply on the jive archives then
[00:47:37] <boyd> Wow, someone who doesn't want to break threading! We should have him stuffed.
[00:47:48] <timelyx> :)
[00:47:49] <sommerfeld> see port_create(3c), port_get(3C), etc.,
[00:48:14] <sommerfeld> and port_associate(3C)
[00:48:23] <boyd> sommerfeld: Oh, so you're telling me that (for e.g.) PORT_SOURCE_FILE is already defained for userspace?
[00:48:25] <timelyx> boyd: this one guy in another context breaks threading, it's really annoying
[00:48:38] <timelyx> given that i've complained about him this week, it'd suck if i did that
[00:48:39] <boyd> timelyx: Tell me about it.
[00:48:57] <sommerfeld> boyd: uts includes header files which are installed in /usr/include/sys
[00:49:02] <timelyx> does jive connect threading properly?
[00:49:17] <sommerfeld> usr/src/uts/common/sys/port.h (changed by the project) lands in /usr/include/sys/port.h
[00:49:22] <boyd> sommerfeld: Ah... that's the piece of the puzzle I was missing. <slaps forehead>
[00:49:52] <boyd> sommerfeld: Thanks
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[00:51:07] * timelyx wonders if the mail interface can forward stuff
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[01:00:23] <CIA-26> nakanon: 6536154 /usr/xpg4/bin/awk is slower in UTF-8 locales
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[01:00:41] <boyd> Well, that was lovely, I just had an unpatched s10u3 panic repoducibly as a result of trying to register it with updatemanager!
[01:00:53] <dudes1> what is the device name of my cdplayer
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[01:01:25] <dudes1> I need to know to have qemu boot from cd !
[01:03:30] <jmcp> dudes1: run "eject -l"
[01:04:01] <dudes1> /dev/diskette0
[01:04:07] <dudes1> !
[01:04:26] <jmcp> no
[01:04:38] <jmcp> which build are you running
[01:04:46] <boyd> Grr... can anyone remember the command-line way to register a machine with Sun Update connection?
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[01:05:26] <asyd> smpatch,!
[01:05:52] <dudes1> SunOS hummer 5.11 snv_62 i86pc i386 i86pc
[01:05:52] <boyd> I'm pretty sure there's something you can run before smpatch...
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[01:06:12] <asyd> anyay
[01:06:15] <jmcp> dudes1: so assuming that you've actually got a cdrom in the system, "eject -l" should show you the path that you need
[01:06:18] <asyd> you MUST use pca
[01:06:26] <boyd> Well, I'll go straight to smpatch after this box finishes crash-dumping *again*
[01:06:30] <asyd> it's the better patch management software I ever see
[01:06:31] <asyd> http://guses.org/conferences/pca_en.swf
[01:07:09] <dudes1> jmcp: well I actully put it in the wrong computer !!!
[01:07:59] <dudes1> jmcp: and It looks like I've disconnected it .... nice going
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[01:08:07] <dudes1> well ty anyway
[01:08:23] <boyd> Ah... "sconadm". That's it
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[01:09:10] <dudes1> Ill create an iso of it instead
[01:14:43] <axisys> asyd: last two days I had to manually download the patchdiag.xref for pca.. have u experience that ?
[01:14:49] <asyd> yup
[01:15:09] <asyd> you need - now - to identify even to download the .xref
[01:15:20] <asyd> so just add --http-user=".."
[01:15:35] <axisys> asyd: i have using that.. but still failed
[01:15:38] <axisys> have been
[01:15:48] <asyd> few seconds
[01:16:03] <asyd> >     `$o{wget} $o{wgetq} $o{wgetproxy} $o{nocache}
[01:16:09] <axisys> i still go with pca anyday
[01:16:10] <asyd> "http://sunsolve.sun.com/pub-cgi/pdownload.pl?target=patchdiag.xref" -O
[01:16:14] <asyd> $input{xref}`;
[01:16:17] <asyd>
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[01:21:00] <axisys> asyd: I get this far http://rafb.net/p/VrqESB16.html
[01:21:26] <axisys> but when I try to view /var/tmp/patchdiag.xref .. it is a html file
[01:21:28] <axisys> ouch!
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[01:23:16] <axisys> asyd: here is the beginning of the file looks like.. http://rafb.net/p/ynGO3x81.html
[01:23:42] <axisys> i know my account has not expire .. because I use it few times a day
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[01:26:34] <bda> http://www.sun.com/images/b1/b1_indiana.jpg # Rock out with your core dumped!
[01:27:17] <nachox> nice
[01:27:38] * timelyx frowns
[01:27:55] * timelyx can't find any way to get messages from mailman into a gmail inbox
[01:28:53] <bda> SMTP?
[01:28:55] * bda ducks.
[01:29:18] <asyd> \_o<
[01:29:20] <asyd> sorry
[01:29:21] <timelyx> ?
[01:29:40] <bda> It's a duck.
[01:29:59] <timelyx> it's going the wrong way :)
[01:30:22] <timelyx> looks more like a tweety bird :). >o_/
[01:31:52] <bda> Serial numbers need to be more legible.
[01:32:01] <bda> Mixing up 5/6 and G/Q is getting old. :P
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[01:36:33] <nachox> 7/T
[01:36:48] <nachox> O/Q
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[01:38:36] <Gman> huh, i'm stunned indiana is on sun.com
[01:38:45] * Gman totally wasn't ready for that
[01:39:40] <aruiz> Gman, heh
[01:39:51] <aruiz> Gman, you are famous! :-)
[01:40:04] <aruiz> Gman, no wait, you were famous already :-/
[01:40:20] <Gman> i'm not named
[01:40:21] <Gman> :)
[01:40:38] <aruiz> Gman, you are the face of solaris now X)
[01:40:51] <richlowe> they totally should have named him.
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[01:40:55] <Gman> i don't think so :)
[01:41:06] <aruiz> richlowe, those jelaous marketing morons, you know
[01:41:26] <richlowe> I figure the indiana folk need to take an even share of the blame and ridicule.
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[01:41:36] <ardian> hello
[01:41:37] <richlowe> so far Gman's keeping his name off so much stuff he's not getting his fair share.
[01:41:41] <aruiz> Gman, I like the photo though
[01:41:44] <Gman> richlowe, we've had that for about 2 months
[01:41:59] <ardian> i was wondering if anyone could tell me how to change the screen resolution on solaris 10??
[01:42:29] <g4lt-mordant> depends: sparc or x86
[01:42:51] <ardian> x86
[01:42:57] <Stric> axisys: I got the same problem (patchdiag.xref) when trying to patch today.. "solved" it by downloading it with firefox and putting it in the right place..
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[01:44:01] <g4lt-mordant> kdmconfig
[01:44:19] <ardian> k
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[01:46:15] <palowoda> Gman: Think of it as Sun Viagra.
[01:46:40] <bda> ew?
[01:47:17] <Gman> because we can't get it up?
[01:48:10] <palowoda> I'm sure you can get it up.
[01:48:32] <palowoda> Indiana that is.
[01:48:41] <Gman> it's getting there
[01:49:09] <palowoda> We got time.
[01:49:28] <bda> Yeah, there's no hurry. I mean, if there's too much pressure right now, we can wait.
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[01:49:51] <bda> Maybe we should read some old SRV4 manuals. It might help.
[01:50:00] <Gman> :)
[01:51:02] <eboutilier> Gman: Any scoop on starting to address the non open-source core OS bits? I'm dying to get my hands on the prototype constructor stuff, which is imminent, but not if what one constructs from it can't be  redistributed...
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[01:51:41] * timelyx grumbles
[01:51:46] <Gman> i haven't seen much progress on either actually
[01:51:47] * delewis grumbles, too
[01:51:57] * timelyx really can't figure out how to take the tools-discuss archive and import it into gmail
[01:51:59] <delewis> the backspace/delete key handling in rxvt is broken.
[01:52:06] <eboutilier> More background here: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.os.solaris.opensolaris.general/25683/focus=25752
[01:52:12] <delewis> diagnosing UNIX terminal trouble is always fun.
[01:52:29] <delewis> could be stty, could be screen, could be your terminal emulator, could be a broken termcap, etc.
[01:52:56] <delewis> and all it came down to was building rxvt with --disable-backspace-key and --disable-delete-key (which lets the X11 server handle it, instead)
[01:53:02] <eboutilier> Gman: OK, thanks. Re: the constructor kit, see: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/caiman/Roadmap/
[01:53:29] <Gman> eboutilier, yeah, i've seen that, i just haven't seen any real discussion on it
[01:53:40] <Gman> yet, but i'm sure those guys are just ramping up post-dwarf
[01:54:05] <delewis> gnome-terminal has the same brokeness.
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[01:54:14] <delewis> its doing its own backspace/delete key handling.
[01:54:27] * Gman heads off to talk to oren about service tags
[01:54:31] <eboutilier> Gman: Yeah, I was disapponted that none of the new stuff coming from that team mentions a single word about addressing the non open-source (core OS) bits.
[01:54:32] *** Gman is now known as GmanAFK
[01:54:44] <GmanAFK> eboutilier, it's not really their responsibility
[01:55:15] <eboutilier> It's not *anybody's* responsibility yet is the problem. ;-)
[01:55:49] <GmanAFK> well, in part true
[01:55:55] <ardian> whats the command to install a program on solaris10?
[01:56:01] <eboutilier> Also, I think it's not a stretch for the team doing the distro constructor to address the things that prevent its use.
[01:56:30] <GmanAFK> for now i'd rather they finish off the slim, constructor and snap work
[01:56:35] <GmanAFK> bbiab
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[01:57:09] <eboutilier> Not me. A constructor that can't be used doesn't come off well.
[01:58:26] <palowoda> Phase II Eric.
[01:58:35] <ardian> #geelong
[01:58:56] <ardian> wtf
[01:59:12] <ardian> soz havent been on irc for ages
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[02:00:21] <eboutilier> palowoda: Hey Bob. Doesn't it seem though that the works basically been done elsewhere, so what's the big deal.
[02:00:27] <CIA-26> dp78419: PSARC 2006/675 MPO for Victoria Falls/Maramba project, 6539930 MPO for sun4v platforms
[02:00:28] <CIA-26> meem: 6549950 in.mpathd's run_timeouts() logic introduces perceived probe jitter, 6574889 in.mpathd's test address error reporting is still shoddy, 6579029 ip_sioctl_plink() is confusing and repetitious, 6579058 if_mpadm exposes a mistake in in.mpathd's state machine, 6579717 ire_check_and_create_bcast() code should be moved out of ipif_up_done(), 6580707 ipif_check_bcast_ires() needs to be refactored, 6585953 ilm_lookup_ill_withsrc() and ilm_lookup
[02:01:00] <palowoda> Err the not invented here syndrome?
[02:01:11] <palowoda> Damn those CIA reports get long.
[02:01:47] <palowoda>  6549950  looks like a patch matrix.
[02:02:43] <eboutilier> ... and OpenSolaris product management (Ian at al), as with any major product, has the clout (undestandably so) to focus engineering on the right market requirements.
[02:03:09] <eboutilier> So I'd think that would be one of the top ones. What do I know though. Heh.
[02:03:22] <palowoda> Ian is a funny little bunny.
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[02:04:12] <palowoda> We need more like him. :)
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[02:05:46] <palowoda> Though people are hungery and want to make stew these days.
[02:06:08] <sommerfeld> palowoda: that was a single integration
[02:06:19] <eboutilier> Order me up a case of Dinty Moore. :)
[02:06:34] <eboutilier> No wait, that's prefab stuff!
[02:08:47] <eboutilier> There's a ton of excellent stew just waiting to be made... e.g. how about a specialty home asterisk/VOID CD..
[02:08:54] <eboutilier> VOIP
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[02:09:39] <palowoda> Hey that would make a great addition to Solaris Express.
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[02:10:58] <eboutilier> http://www.solarisvoip.com
[02:12:22] <palowoda> Worth a bookmark, still a good project for Solaris.
[02:14:17] <eboutilier> Rather than integrate it into SX though, I think that kind of thing is more effective/efficient done as a community specialty distro.
[02:15:10] <g4lt-mordant> distros are a baaad word in opensolaris, thanks to PI
[02:15:33] <palowoda> We already have too many distros.
[02:16:05] <palowoda> Err we could use more sparc distro's though.
[02:16:08] <eboutilier> We have zero single-purpose, single CD distros.
[02:16:18] <eboutilier> +1
[02:17:13] <eboutilier> g4lt-mordant: Uh, I hope not.
[02:17:19] <eboutilier> s/Uh/Ug/
[02:17:41] <palowoda> Uggh got to go and see the Tigers beat up on the Oakland A's.
[02:18:27] <eboutilier> You're not going to watch steriod man go for the homerun record? :-)
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[02:27:43] <alanc> oh no!   they're dropping support for booting Solaris from pre-OBP SPARC PROM's!
[02:28:47] <alanc> all those sun4c's will be even more useless than before...
[02:29:12] <hile_> sun4c = ss1 ss2?
[02:29:13] * jmcp looks around for somebody who really cares ......
[02:29:18] <jmcp> ipc, ipx, elc
[02:29:20] <hile_> i have never actually booted one of those
[02:29:22] <eboutilier> ss10, no?
[02:29:30] <jmcp> that was a sun4m
[02:30:07] <eboutilier> So late 80's HW?
[02:30:28] <eboutilier> Well, early 90's I guess.
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[02:31:08] <hile_> how the hell did they boot?
[02:31:59] <alanc> ss10 is sun4m - even that's new enough for OBP
[02:32:30] <hile_> i meant the sun4c stuff
[02:32:42] <alanc> the ARC case did point out that even though the support for booting from pre-OBP SPARC proms is still in Solaris, there hasn't been a kernel you could boot on a machine with prom's that old since sun4c was dropped at S7
[02:32:59] <alanc> yeah, sun4c is sparcstation 1, 2, ipc, etc.
[02:33:23] <eboutilier> circa roadrunner. Hee hee.
[02:33:24] <hile_> so 2.6 is the newest you could run on them
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[02:37:06] <Plouj> hi
[02:37:41] <Plouj> is there a way to backup zfs filesystems to a separate drive in a format that won't be obsoleted but still use zfs utlities?
[02:38:02] <Plouj> It looks like 'zfs send' is not good because there is no gurantee that the format will stay the same.
[02:38:33] <Doc> "Schedulers are actually not at all that important in the end: they are a very very small detail in the kernel"
[02:38:41] <Doc> anyone wanna guess who said that?
[02:39:04] <Cass> not linus ?
[02:39:05] <Plouj> Linus Torvalds?
[02:39:16] * Doc hands cass and plouj a cookie
[02:39:35] * Cass smiles and shakes jis head
[02:40:16] <movement> Plouj: I'm not sure what you mean by "no guarantee". there's no guarantee any format will last forever...
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[02:40:42] <movement> if you mean will there be a time that old zfs formats won't be understood by newer tools, I strongly doubt that will ever happen
[02:41:09] <sommerfeld> movement: solaris has defined interface stability levels so that people don't have to speculate about such matters
[02:41:36] <Plouj> movement: the manual says: "The format of the stream is evolving. No backwards compatibility is guaranteed. You may not be able to receive your streams on future versions of ZFS." http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-2240/6n4htdnop?a=view
[02:42:21] <Doc> plouj: is the next line "Our lawyers mad us say that!" ?
[02:42:28] <axisys> Stric: i rather not have to depend on that workaround always
[02:42:41] <sommerfeld> movement: the zfs team is not ready to commit to the format.
[02:42:56] <movement> yeah, but what format.
[02:42:56] <sommerfeld> or, at least, they weren't the last time I pressed them on it.
[02:43:03] <Plouj> Doc: the next line says: "zfs receive [-vnF] filesystem|volume|snapshot" :)
[02:43:22] <Plouj> movement: "The format of the stream..."
[02:43:37] <movement> but you're assuming that receive is how you'd replay the backup, right?
[02:43:50] <Plouj> movement: is there any other way?
[02:44:13] <Plouj> movement: yes, that's a pretty good assumption I think
[02:45:38] <movement> Plouj: receive immediately onto the backup surely.
[02:46:13] <Plouj> ok, that's an option, but it might waste space
[02:46:34] <Plouj> I'd like to use incremental sends (backups)
[02:47:21] <Plouj> unless receive is smart enough to make the snapshot also incremental...
[02:47:46] <Plouj> aah
[02:47:55] <Plouj> "If an incremental stream is received, then the destination file system must already exist, and its most recent snapshot must match the incremental stream's source."
[02:48:03] <Plouj> ok, I guess that works then
[02:48:16] <Plouj> so I just create another pool on the backup disk and send/receive to it
[02:48:26] <Plouj> cool
[02:49:59] <Plouj> is it fine to use ZFS for swap now?
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[03:05:23] <Jondice> i always thought swap had its own filesystem type
[03:05:46] <Jondice> that was specialized for acting like memory
[03:05:50] <Jondice> but, i don't know much
[03:08:49] <Cass> think you can stil use it though, create in the usual manner and swap -a it im sure
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[03:11:17] <Jondice> cool
[03:12:57] <Cass> yeah its in the zfs manpage
[03:13:00] <Cass> just checked
[03:16:13] <movement> ??
[03:16:24] <movement> you can't swap to a file on ZFS.
[03:16:41] <Cass> yeah a file ..  but a volume is ok
[03:16:50] <Cass> did he mention file ?
[03:17:13] <movement> I presumed he meant file since I thought it's always been possible on a zvol
[03:17:24] <Cass> heh
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[03:18:30] <bda> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=471537&amp;in_page_id=1770
[03:18:33] <bda> eeee
[03:19:31] <Cass> :-) awwww
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[03:24:44] <alanc> bah, thunderbird needs a grammar checker integrated to warn me I'm sending out mails with extra "the" in
[03:25:06] <jmcp> alanc: and the problem is is that ....
[03:25:17] <alanc> and maybe an intelligence checker, but then much of my e-mail would be blocked from going out
[03:25:37] <jmcp> ah, 'twas ever thus
[03:26:02] * alanc waits for the El Reg headline - "Even OpenSolaris Board Members don't know what OpenSolaris is"
[03:26:41] <alanc> except they'd use British slang I'd need to look up to decipher what they're saying
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[03:28:41] <sommerfeld> oops
[03:29:01] <Gman> alanc, pfft!
[03:29:35] <Gman> alanc, many things to many people unfortunately :/
[03:29:37] <alanc> hey, at least I didn't point out that no one knows what Indiana is 8-)
[03:29:43] <Gman> heh
[03:30:41] <alanc> but "What is OpenSolaris?" was just too fun a subject line to send to ogb-discuss
[03:31:01] * Gman needs to find time to get back to ogb work
[03:31:05] <Gman> i have too much to want to write up
[03:31:37] <Doc> was the extra the the problem?
[03:33:10] <Doc> indiana is just a linux port isnt it?  I'm sure i read that on slashdot
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[03:33:24] <alanc> the extra the was in the that category
[03:34:46] <alanc> hmm, I've done "hg init" and the initial add/commit now...does that count as a full day's work?
[03:35:33] <alanc> also sat through 1.5 hours of Purple Haze ARC review, which ate my brain
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[03:36:39] <Gman> Doc, 'isn't just'
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[03:40:44] <jmcp> Gman: you need to re-load your sarcasm detector module
[03:41:15] <Gman> ahh
[03:41:31] <hile_> c'mon, this is Doc :)
[03:41:34] <Gman> i have absolutely no level state anymore
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[03:42:19] <alanc> damn opensparc.net looks so much nicer than opensolaris.org
[03:42:20] <hile_> this is what you get for looking at GNOME code too much
[03:43:01] <sommerfeld> alanc: definitely need the Kronos Quartet version of Purple Haze, then.
[03:43:06] <movement> alanc: looks pretty dreadful to me...
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[03:44:28] <movement> alanc: the news items aren't even on the screen for me.
[03:44:46] <movement> (of course, same applies to opensolaris.org)
[03:45:35] <alanc> well, I am spoiled by sitting in front of a 1920x1200 monitor right now, so it fits on the screen nicely
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[03:47:08] <movement> the menus seem to be broken too
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[03:47:20] <movement> (besides being extremely annoying)
[03:47:37] <alanc> but it's pretty!
[03:48:25] <alanc> speaking of pretty... I think I can putback the really slick screensavers now... I should remember to look at that
[03:48:44] <movement> alanc: yay.
[03:48:55] <sommerfeld> there goes energystar compliance :-)
[03:49:02] <axisys> how do I find out a PROCESS that is running longer than 12 hrs?
[03:49:11] <axisys> on sol 10
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[03:49:40] <alanc> nah, we stop running them when DPMS turns off the monitor, so energystar is still good
[03:49:57] <alanc> battery life will go to hell if you run them on your laptop though
[03:50:40] <sommerfeld> axisys: ps -eaf.  STIME column is the process start time.  TIME column is the amount of CPU time burned  (minutes:seconds)
[03:52:40] <axisys> sommerfeld: so without me doing calculation can I find out process that has been alive more than 12 hrs?
[03:52:53] <axisys> like -mtime +12 in find
[03:52:54] <Gman> alanc, yeah, i quite like opensparc
[03:53:22] <axisys> sommerfeld: i know that was just an example
[03:53:47] <axisys> something similar in ps or some other tool just to find a process that is running longer than 12 hrs
[03:54:29] <sommerfeld> anything older than a day will show up as <month> <day> in STIME
[03:55:06] <axisys> sommerfeld: well not so easy :P .. i was looking for say 8 hrs
[03:55:43] <axisys> some random time that a parameter can take of a tool .. to detect the STIME attribute of a process
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[03:55:57] <axisys> I will provide the process name to the tool
[03:56:33] <Jondice> i know solaris isn't exactly a desktop system, but why would mplayer (playing mp3 files) skip on a system that has free memory and no other processes spiking over 10% of one core's cycles
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[03:57:29] <Jondice> i'm sure the answer is use a profiler, but i just wanted to complain =p
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[03:58:58] <nachox> what happens if you put 2 CRYPT_DEFAULT statements at policy.conf
[03:59:02] <Jondice> admittedly, this is the first time in 3 months it has happened, so i can't complain too much
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[04:06:34] <axisys> sommerfeld: i got it
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[04:06:58] <axisys> sommerfeld: DATE=`date +%b_` ps -ef -o stime,user,rss,args | egrep "<process-name>" | grep -v grep | grep $DATE
[04:09:48] <nachox> dont use backtics, usr $()
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[04:10:24] <axisys> nachox: ok
[04:11:04] <nachox> ugh, i'm starting to sound like roland, can anyone stab me?
[04:11:08] <axisys> what would be equivalent in sh ?
[04:11:31] <alanc> in sh, you're stuck with ``
[04:11:44] <alanc> in sh, no one can hear you scream
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[04:13:28] <axisys> alanc: heh.. i guess in my cronjob i start it with /bin/bash
[04:13:34] <nachox> unfortunately, the solution, use ksh
[04:15:13] <axisys> is there a way I can limit a process not to grow older than say 10 hrs.. and just die? i could have a dtrace do that.. like appcrash.d ..
[04:15:25] <axisys> s/grow/live/
[04:16:31] <nachox> just create a shell script that runs the program, collects it's pid and create an at job to kill it after 10 hours
[04:20:09] <nachox> if anyone has a better hack than mine, please let me know ;)
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[04:29:33] <boyd> in the suncluster bits there's a command called hatimerun that will do that
[04:31:31] <boyd> you could also do something like "rundaemon & sleep $(10 * 3600) ; kill $!"
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[04:31:53] <boyd> err $(( 10 * 3600 ))
[04:32:03] <LeftWing> 36000? :P
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[04:32:20] <boyd> You know what I'm doing
[04:32:26] <LeftWing> Mmm.
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[04:57:00] <cub> how do I find out if my solaris 10 was installed as a 64 or 32 bit version ?
[04:57:27] <jbk> what type of system is it?
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[04:58:09] <jbk> generally it installed both 32 & 64 bit pieces, then during boot, if it detects a 64bit cpu, will boot the 64bit kernel
[04:58:10] <cub> i have a few types:  v890 and x4200, x2200
[04:58:40] <jbk> should boot 64 bit kernel on all of those
[04:59:08] <jbk> unlike certain OSes, it really can seamlessly support both :)
[04:59:13] <cub> jbk: i guess 32 bit hardware are those older systems like 280R , enterprise 2500 ?
[04:59:21] <jbk> no
[04:59:28] <jbk> 2500? not familiar with that
[04:59:32] <jbk> 280r is still 64-bit
[04:59:43] <jbk> sparc has been 64-bit since around 1997
[04:59:46] <jamesd> blade 2500?
[04:59:47] <jbk> i believe
[04:59:48] <cub> wow
[04:59:58] <jamesd> isainfo -v
[05:00:02] <jamesd> psrinfo -v
[05:00:11] <cub> ok thanks
[05:00:23] <CIA-26> lh195018: 6581368 ST:Need st driver support for HP DAT-160 tape drive
[05:00:24] <jamesd> prtdiag -v   if   the cpu type is ultra in  prtdiag its 64 bit
[05:01:37] <bda> zfs++
[05:01:57] <bda> Had to reinstall a box. Reimported zpools post-install. Work remaining to do? Minimal.
[05:02:44] <jbk> zfs spoils you
[05:02:47] <bda> Yes.
[05:02:49] <jbk> i dread having to deal with anything else
[05:03:09] <bda> Heh, ya.
[05:03:35] <jbk> like importing 130 luns into veritas (across 8 diskgroups, with specific luns going to specific diskgroups), then created 50-60 volumes, and an assortment of filesystems
[05:03:36] <cub> jamesd: in sparc, i can see the amount of memory in prtdiag, but not in x86.  Any idea what command to do this ?
[05:03:48] <jbk> try /usr/sbin/prtconf | head
[05:04:02] <jamesd> cub  vmstat
[05:04:10] <cub> that did it...prtconf...thanks
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[05:06:49] <jbk> np
[05:07:00] <jbk> i need something to keep my solaris skills sharp :)
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[05:09:02] <bda> grr, PXE.
[05:09:17] <bda> I can tftp files off my install server happily, but anything PXE booting hangs after getting pxelinux.0.
[05:09:20] <bda> I can see network traffic trying to get pxelinux.cfg/<HEX> but the tftpd doesn't the request.
[05:09:23] * bda shakes angry fist.
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[05:29:48] <Tempt> Afternoon all.
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[05:35:16] <boyd> Hey
[05:35:28] <boyd> Umm... can you get XFS for solaris now?
[05:35:51] <jbk> why?
[05:35:57] <flyingparchment> no?
[05:36:20] <boyd> Someone's asking a q on zfs-discuss comparing perf of ZFS to XFS and UFS
[05:36:30] <flyingparchment> they probably mean xfs on linux
[05:36:46] <flyingparchment> its quite popular there for storing large files
[05:36:51] <boyd> Well, if they're comparing XFS on to ZFS on linux then that's dumb
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[05:37:12] <boyd> and if they're comparing XFS on linux to ZFS on solaris I'm not sure how they think they can point the finger
[05:37:18] <Teknomancer> Morning all :)
[05:37:29] <WickedWicky> heya Teknomancer
[05:37:35] <Teknomancer> hi WickedWicky!
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[05:46:26] <boyd> hmmm is there XFS support for FreeBSD? Maybe that's what they mean?
[05:47:26] <delewis> yes, there is.
[05:47:33] <delewis> that's "the" filesystem in FreeBSD at the moment.
[05:48:01] <bda> Figured it out. New versions of ISC DHCP require a `next-server` directive.
[05:48:01] <bda> sigh
[05:48:16] <boyd> Interesting... I'd heard nothing, I thought it was all UFS (with softupdates) and ZFS these days.
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[05:48:43] <delewis> well, sure, UFS2 is still there, but there's a lot of interest in XFS, as well.
[05:48:44] <bda> Somebunny told me FBSD UFS has been able to do root snaps for a couple years.
[05:48:47] <delewis> ZFS is 'untested'
[05:48:48] <bda> Never followed up on it, though.
[05:50:02] <boyd> delewis: Ahh, so tha much be the platform they're on...
[05:50:09] <boyd> err "that must"
[05:50:35] <delewis> that's the impression I get from #freebsd, anyway.
[05:50:46] <delewis> I got called a 'sun fanboy' for defending ZFS.
[05:50:57] <flyingparchment> you are a sun fanboy.  ;-)
[05:51:06] * boyd sighs
[05:51:07] <delewis> more hostile than I would've thought, considering FreeBSD is benefitting from several Solaris features.
[05:51:08] <bda> At least they were nice enough to use a y, and not the super-derogatory i.
[05:51:37] <boyd> super-derogatory? I thought it was super-adolescent
[05:52:06] <delewis> aren't most derogatory phrases adolescent, as well?
[05:52:15] <bda> boyd: Being facetious. :)
[05:52:52] <delewis> I'm sure once ZFS hits -STABLE, opinions will change.
[05:53:04] <delewis> much as how opinions have changed about ZFS when it hit Solaris 10.
[05:53:09] * boyd nods
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[05:57:58] <boyd> Good greif, thread-of-death in -discuss
[05:58:03] <boyd> grief
[05:58:28] <delewis> referring to the 'open letter' nonsense?
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[05:58:38] <boyd> yah
[05:58:45] * boyd killfiles
[05:58:58] <delewis> I completely failed to the point of that thread.
[05:59:07] <delewis> but then again, most things on osol-discuss don't really have a point.
[05:59:55] <boyd> +1
[06:00:00] <delewis> and besides, I've created this rule that goes as such 'if posts by kaiwai make up more than 10% of the thread, its most likely not worth reading'
[06:00:47] <bda> ha
[06:01:03] <boyd> Teehee
[06:01:24] * boyd looks around nervously for kaiwai
[06:01:34] <delewis> I double-checked beforehand.
[06:01:45] <delewis> only to avoid getting blasted by 'What do you mean by that?!"
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[06:05:53] <comay> that thread is made all the worse but users who insist on quoting the whole $**#!@ previous article in their response
[06:06:02] <flyingparchment> and people who don't know how to wrap lines
[06:06:11] <flyingparchment> i wish pipermail would fix that itself
[06:07:32] <delewis> i just remember pressing 'n' (next new message in thread in Thunderbird) as fast as I could throughout that entire thread. It looked like the usual 'why don't we have ATI drivers? why don't we have Acrobat Reader for x86?'-type of nonsense.
[06:08:28] <boyd> It's probably not good form to have mail middleware futzing with the body of mails... althought I personally think that removal of HTML and replacement with "Annoying rant by some twat" would be acceptimble sometimes :)
[06:09:22] <delewis> well, AFAIK, email doesn't follow the same laws that real mail does (the inability to alter the mail, etc.)...
[06:09:23] <delewis> :-)
[06:11:04] * boyd wonders about using the word "acceptimble" more widely. It's got a nice ring to it :)
[06:11:14] <flyingparchment> boyd: sounds like a bushism
[06:11:21] <Tempt> Heh.
[06:11:39] <delewis> "acceptimble" is still too many sylables to be a Bush-ism.
[06:11:44] * Tempt takes a peek at osol-discuss
[06:12:23] <Tempt> Lord.
[06:12:26] <Tempt> Kill it now.
[06:12:45] * delewis dares peek at who started the thread
[06:12:59] <Tempt> This is Kaiwai complaining about not having his dream desktop without doing any work, isn't it?
[06:13:11] <boyd> This terminal is >170 columns and gnus's -> indented responses went all the way across
[06:13:27] <boyd> Tempt: possibly...
[06:13:43] <delewis> Tempt, it became that.
[06:14:10] <Tempt> How awful.
[06:14:18] <delewis> for some reason (beyond my imagination) he still insists upon using Solaris.
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[06:14:31] <delewis> and thus, tormenting all of us.
[06:14:40] <delewis> maybe Indiana will be a good thing in that regard.
[06:15:04] <Tempt> The fact that someone like that is spouting on about things he doesn't understand reminds me as to why I liked to just manage things with a newsreader and all the useful scorefile stuff that enabled.
[06:15:19] <flyingparchment> it reminds me why i don't read -discuss
[06:15:26] <Tempt> Frankly, I'd like to drop a nice heavy SPARC machine right on his bleedin' head.
[06:15:31] <flyingparchment> (you can read it on gmane, though...)
[06:15:40] <delewis> Tempt, that'd be a waste.
[06:15:46] <delewis> he wouldn't know one if it hit him in the head.
[06:15:53] <Tempt> Even Jim G is taking pot shots back at him.
[06:16:13] <flyingparchment> is "kaiwai" his real name?  that's hilarious
[06:16:18] <delewis> there was some bit about a "rectum pull" that Jim G replied back to.
[06:16:23] <boyd> Tempt: That's what I do now (hence Gnus). Although it does entail the EmacsOS
[06:16:24] <Tempt> That's the one.
[06:16:59] <Tempt> Frankly, I wouldn't really mind but the continual pseudo-sexual references are getting really, really irritating.
[06:17:44] <boyd> Not a Benny Hill fan? :)
[06:18:37] <Tempt> Not really, no.
[06:19:00] <Tempt> I don't mind the humour, but time and place. I don't like the fact that I can't leave an IRC session open at my desk because the content isn't worksafe.
[06:19:23] <delewis> that's become an issue for this channel?
[06:19:30] <Tempt> It has.
[06:20:34] <boyd> CAn't say that I've noticed.
[06:20:39] <Tempt> And I don't consider heavy language or cursing or general bad attitude to be a work-safe problem; I just consider continual sexual innuendo to be a problem.
[06:20:46] <delewis> in any case, its better than #solaris.
[06:20:57] <Tempt> #solaris is easy.
[06:21:01] <Tempt> Nobody says anything, ever.
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[06:21:15] <delewis> you've never been around at the right times. :-)
[06:21:38] <Tempt> Heh, perhaps.
[06:22:06] <Doc> blah.. how can you consider yourself an aussie and not have a fucking swearword in every sentence?
[06:22:11] <delewis> #solaris amounts to insomnia calculating the mileage of her... well, you know. AJ_ZO dropping napalm on some new user, etc. and the list goes on...
[06:22:29] <Tempt> Sound charming.
[06:22:44] <Tempt> *joins*
[06:23:11] <delewis> its fairly quiet in there now.
[06:26:34] <program> lol
[06:26:56] <program> aj is definitely set in their ways
[06:28:16] <program> i would say insomnia spends a majority of her time talking about political BS that nobody cares to hear
[06:47:27] <axisys> how do I get the elapsed time of a process in seconds
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[06:50:38] <Doc> of a new process?  ptime
[06:51:06] <boyd> Tempt: I'm just reading back... are you referring to the comment that delewis made involving pulling? I ask because that's the exact phase used in the email he was discussing. it was in reference to figures being pulled out of "the air"
[06:53:40] <axisys> Doc: of a running process
[06:54:16] <boyd> ps -p 2315 -o etime
[06:56:45] <axisys> boyd: etime does not show in seconds :-(
[06:57:10] <boyd> I'm happy to write a script for you at standard consulting rates.
[06:57:19] <axisys> boyd: heh
[06:57:44] <axisys> boyd: i just dont want to reinvent .. thats all :-)
[06:58:27] <axisys> i am basically just want to grab processes that are older than a day
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[06:58:50] <boyd> maybe stime could help
[06:59:41] <axisys> boyd: cool.. thats it..
[07:00:02] <axisys> boyd: thnx a lot.. see told ya.. glad I asked.. or i would have reinvented
[07:02:53] <boyd> :)
[07:05:32] <axisys> boyd: I am running a cronjob like this
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[07:05:38] <axisys> DATE=`date +%b_` ; ps -ef -o pid,stime,comm | egrep "mozilla-bin|firefox-bin" | grep -v grep | grep "$DATE" | awk '{print $1}' | xargs kill -9
[07:05:53] <axisys> can I do it simpler .. is little ugly looking
[07:07:10] <axisys> i have limited memory on my sunray and i dont user who leave their shift have their browser running
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[07:07:28] <flyingparchment> rm mozilla; ln -s opera mozilla
[07:08:14] <boyd> rm mozilla; ls -s /usr/bin/false mozilla :)
[07:08:19] <axisys> flyingparchment: heh.. may be.. but for the sake of logic .. is that above cronjob simple enough
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[07:08:31] <axisys> boyd: heh
[07:08:39] <axisys> slowly but surely..
[07:08:57] <flyingparchment> axisys: i think that will only catch processes started "yesterday".. but i don't remember offhand what exactly makes ps switch formats in stime
[07:09:21] <axisys> flyingparchment: actually that catch anything older than a day
[07:09:30] <boyd> Yeah, I was just wondering that... if it's 12:01 am, do yesterday's procs get Aug_ ?
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[07:09:39] <flyingparchment> axisys: that's what i mean.  although actually it won't today, because today is the 1st of August
[07:09:51] <flyingparchment> yesterday's processes were started in july
[07:09:53] <axisys> flyingparchment: u r correct
[07:09:58] <axisys> oops
[07:10:01] <boyd> They can wait a year
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[07:10:09] <boyd> maybe just look for _
[07:11:36] <axisys> so if a process starts at 9pm on Jul 31.. 1 am on Aug it will show Jul_31 ?
[07:11:51] <flyingparchment> yeah
[07:11:54] <axisys> i should repharse what I was looking for
[07:12:00] <Doc> axisys: no
[07:12:09] <axisys> i am looking to kill a pocess that is older than 24 hrs
[07:12:11] <flyingparchment> no?  will it show the time still then?
[07:12:18] <Doc> at 9am on aug 1 it will show 21:00
[07:12:23] <Doc> err.. 1am too
[07:12:32] <Doc> it will show that for about 24 hours
[07:12:32] <flyingparchment> ah, like ls then
[07:13:10] <axisys> Doc: oh ok.. so date +%b_ will still match the pattern then
[07:13:27] <flyingparchment> axisys: not today
[07:13:36] <flyingparchment> axisys: at 9pm, it'll start showing Jul_31
[07:13:37] <boyd> Not on change of month it wont... why not look for an underscore
[07:14:08] <axisys> boyd: i will .. just tryng so follow the algorithm
[07:14:18] <Doc> what exactly are you trying to do?
[07:14:32] <axisys> kill a process that is older than 24 hrs
[07:14:35] <flyingparchment> isn't there a more specific starting time you could read from /proc?
[07:14:52] <boyd> From the shell?
[07:15:00] <Doc> ps -eo pid,etime | grep -- -
[07:15:03] <flyingparchment> hm, maybe not :)
[07:15:06] <Doc> that's a list of all processes > 24 hours old
[07:15:13] <flyingparchment> Doc: isn't that only counting cpu time?
[07:15:28] <boyd> Ah... that's what I was looking for, but I don't have a box with uptime > 24hrs right here :)
[07:15:37] <Doc> e is for elephant!  it's also for elasped
[07:15:46] <flyingparchment> ah, i was thinking 'executed'
[07:16:08] <Doc> (and as i've never heard of a process having an elephant time, i'm going for it being the latter)
[07:16:25] <flyingparchment> axisys: use doc's solution
[07:16:52] <axisys> whats the `--' for ?
[07:17:02] <Doc> you're looking for a -
[07:17:03] <flyingparchment> stops - looking like an argument
[07:17:07] <flyingparchment> so it searches for a literal -
[07:17:14] <Doc> grep -  will confuse grep as it thinks it's looking for an option
[07:17:15] <axisys> i c
[07:17:17] <flyingparchment> s/argument/option/
[07:17:58] <Doc> actually, strangely enough, "grep -" seems to work on sol10 at least
[07:18:16] <boyd> ps -o pid,stime -p `pgrep '(mozilla|firefox)-bin'` | awk '/-/ {print $1}' | xargs kill
[07:18:38] <boyd> Shame kill complains about no args
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[07:19:56] <axisys> boyd: i get syntax error for ps with that
[07:20:36] <flyingparchment> axisys: pgrep | tr '\n' ,
[07:20:44] <flyingparchment> pgrep outputs newlines, but ps -p expects a comma list
[07:21:54] <Doc> dont just awk for -
[07:22:00] <boyd> Ah, yes, I've only one match on this box
[07:22:09] <axisys> ps -o pid,stime -p `pgrep '(mozilla|firefox)-bin' | tr '\n' ,` | awk '/-/ {print $1}'
[07:22:19] <Doc> actually.. that will work as you've only getting ps to return the first fields... i see
[07:22:20] <axisys> so that worked
[07:22:33] <boyd> Doc: I went down the same thought path
[07:22:47] <Doc> but you're using stime, not etime
[07:22:58] <boyd> oops... yes, etiam
[07:23:00] <boyd> etime
[07:23:06] <axisys> oops
[07:23:46] <axisys> ps -eo pid,etime -p `pgrep '(mozilla|firefox)-bin' | tr '\n' ,` | awk '/-/ {print $1}'
[07:23:59] <axisys> or I dont get all processes..
[07:24:29] <boyd> I think you may need xargs -n10 or something to stop it running when there's 0 matches
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[07:24:45] <boyd> no, you don'
[07:24:53] <boyd> you don't want -e *and* -p
[07:26:53] <axisys> cool.. so only processes with longer than 24 hrs get a `-' in etime ?
[07:27:15] <flyingparchment> yes
[07:27:31] <flyingparchment> days-hours:minutes:seconds
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[07:27:40] <axisys> and stime with Jul_ will work .. until the day month changes
[07:28:13] <axisys> flyingparchment, boyd, Doc excellent guys
[07:28:18] <axisys> thnx a lot!
[07:28:52] <axisys> good night all.. welcome to Aug btw ;-)
[07:29:01] <boyd> Heh
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[07:43:30] <Tempt> What happens when the month changes?
[07:43:55] <flyingparchment> he was trying to grep ps output for Aug_ to find all processes older than 24 hours
[07:44:01] <Tempt> Aah
[07:46:19] <sickness> morning all
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[07:54:42] <WickedWicky> *yawnish*
[07:54:58] <bda> People have been outside my office in the common area playing ping pong for the last four hours.
[07:55:05] <bda> They need to go away. It's almost 0200.
[07:55:48] <WickedWicky> how sick are you when playing ping pong at 2am?
[07:56:21] <bda> It is a very common thing. Not usually this damn late, though.
[07:57:07] <Teknomancer> ping pong? Table tennis you mean?
[07:57:16] <Teknomancer> or the computer game?
[07:57:21] <bda> Table tennis. Whatever.
[07:57:24] <Teknomancer> ah
[07:57:31] <Teknomancer> didn't know it was called ping pong as well
[07:57:43] <flyingparchment> ping pong is what they call it in the US, right?  or did i get that backwards?
[07:57:56] <bda> S'what I've always called it.
[07:58:05] <Teknomancer> not sure, we call "a ping pong ball" but the game is almost always referred to as Table Tennis though...
[07:58:16] <bda> Bloody damn annoying is what I call it.
[07:58:43] <Teknomancer> playing it is fun, watching.. that's another story
[07:58:59] <bda> They're outside, on the other side of closed doors. I can still hear them.
[07:59:02] <bda> Cackling. Insanely.
[07:59:07] <Teknomancer> lol
[07:59:08] <flyingparchment> are they drunk?
[07:59:14] <bda> If they aren't, they have NO excuse.
[07:59:37] <bda> These are the same people who, a few weeks ago, a co-worker overheard one saying to another: "I'm just saying, I could totally write something like myspace."
[07:59:58] <bda> I think there was a "technically" in there.
[08:00:01] <bda> Whatever. Idiots.
[08:00:43] <bda> bunzip2: Caught a SIGSEGV or SIGBUS whilst decompressing.
[08:00:45] <bda> It's always something.
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[08:46:17] <dlg> jmcp: omghi
[08:48:30] <jmcp> hi
[08:48:41] <Chipdancer> *yawn*
[08:49:24] <jmcp> yeah, it's a bit like that
[08:50:31] <Chipdancer> coffee time
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[08:56:32] <moazamraja> peanut butter jelly time
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[08:59:52] * lloy0076 ponders
[08:59:53] <lloy0076> Ah.
[08:59:58] <lloy0076> Peanut Butter and JAM
[09:00:29] <boyd> Yeah, it always sounds gross to me the other way...
[09:00:37] <moazamraja> no
[09:00:38] <boyd> Actually, it sounds gross both ways
[09:00:42] <moazamraja> it's peanut butter jelly time.
[09:00:43] <moazamraja> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=areyUfCNFxY
[09:00:46] <moazamraja> yall just don't know.
[09:01:41] <lloy0076> I always wanna cluebat that dog.
[09:02:07] <boyd> Huh? Brian is the coolest
[09:03:18] <lloy0076> Yeah, he's cool.
[09:03:27] <lloy0076> I still sometimes want to whack him over the head with a bat though.
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[09:11:33] <moazamraja> lloy0076: Stewie did that in 1 episode
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[09:12:44] <Doc> cluebat?
[09:12:57] <Doc> he's the only one that actually _has_ a clue!
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[09:18:30] <pjd-> delewis: XFS on FreeBSD is read-only, so it's not "the" file system for sure.
[09:20:35] <flyingparchment> why would you want XFS if you have ZFS? :)
[09:23:28] <pjd-> I just clarify.
[09:24:38] <Chipdancer> fp: a very good question
[09:24:39] <e^ipi> xfs offers nothing over any other filesystem, except perhaps faster reads & much slower writes
[09:25:00] <Chipdancer> e^ipi: pretty damn fast deletes from memory
[09:25:31] <e^ipi> craters itself pretty good too if you yank power during some operations
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[09:32:26] <Pietro_S> good morning, is there any chance to have working combination of library and program using that library (both C++) when they are compiled by other compilers? (sunCC and g++)
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[09:35:45] <Pietro_S> I'll give it try and then I'll try to port program to sunCC ...
[09:35:51] <lloy0076> Pietro_S: Most likely not; I've hit that problem a couple of times.
[09:36:08] <lloy0076> Pietro_S: Unfortunately the ABI (binary interface) of Sun Studio and G++ don't match up.
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[09:41:18] <Pietro_S> yes, it didn't work at all, but it was still worth - at least I learned that even if program doesn't use virtual function it doesn't work ;-)
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[09:42:56] <palowoda> Err it's "still worth" what?
[09:43:44] <Pietro_S> I thought that the difference is done by virtuual functions mechanism
[09:44:06] <Pietro_S> don't ask me why I thought it, because I don't know it
[09:44:07] <Cyrille> the difference can be in lots of things, name mangling being one.
[09:44:17] <timelyx> Pietro_S: you basically need to make wrappers
[09:44:19] <palowoda> Virtual templates?
[09:44:34] <timelyx> it's possible in theory to make c++ <=> c++ wrapper bindings
[09:44:37] <oxygene> lots of changes - but sunstudio is supposed to get an optional g++ compatible ABI, I think
[09:44:37] <timelyx> but it's fairly painful
[09:44:49] <palowoda> Who needs to make the wrappers Sun or GNU?
[09:44:52] <timelyx> you could look at mozilla's xptcall
[09:45:02] <timelyx> since we have bindings for sun and gcc
[09:45:05] <oxygene> palowoda: those wrappers would be done manually per library
[09:45:27] <palowoda> Ah the Sunpro compiler guys would support it than.
[09:45:48] <Pietro_S> I rather foorce program too compile by sunCC, it's simplier thing forr me
[09:45:57] <timelyx> it's theoretically possible to have a function which would create a wrapper for an object which would automatically wrap objects passed through its arguments
[09:46:02] <oxygene> the sunpro compiler people intend to become more g++ friendly.. otoh, sunpro would at its third c++ ABI/API - not sure how good _that_ is..
[09:46:07] <timelyx> but it's moderately messy and you have lifetime problems
[09:46:31] <timelyx> oxygene: third? yuck
[09:46:37] <timelyx> otoh, ms has more :)
[09:46:41] <palowoda> So who wants to deal with the lifetime issues.  Sun or FSF?
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[09:46:53] <oxygene> timelyx: sunpro/RogueWave, sunpro/STLport4, sunpro/G++
[09:46:58] <palowoda> FSF being gcc.
[09:47:06] <timelyx> palowoda: users get stuck w/ lifetime issues
[09:47:14] <timelyx> e.g., suppose you have:
[09:47:23] <palowoda> No they don't. They have to choose.
[09:47:24] <timelyx> SunObj* obj;
[09:47:40] <palowoda> End of story right?
[09:47:41] <oxygene> palowoda: you're talking about something else than timelyx
[09:47:42] <timelyx> GObj *wrapped = gcc_wrap(obj);
[09:47:56] <palowoda> Ok I see.
[09:48:02] <timelyx> how does a user know if obj can be deleted
[09:48:12] <timelyx> and if obj is deleted, how does wrapped know that it's in trouble?
[09:48:25] <timelyx> or, how does obj know when wrapped is deleted
[09:48:48] <timelyx> mozilla sorta manages this by forcing all objects to be reference counted
[09:48:58] <timelyx> so wrappers are just extra reference counts
[09:49:09] <timelyx> but most programmers love using new/delete
[09:49:29] <timelyx> otherwise, you're really um...
[09:49:41] <timelyx> well, basically it can't be done otherwise
[09:49:43] <oxygene> wrap them using corba! ;)
[09:49:53] <timelyx> corba includes refcounting
[09:49:56] <timelyx> it's not different
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[09:50:02] <timelyx> just slightly more expensive and portable
[09:50:32] <timelyx> you can certainly use corba as your solution if you want to
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[09:57:48] <moazamraja> 'sunpro', wow, I haven't heard that in eons
[09:58:27] <palowoda> It doesn't matter anymore either.
[09:58:50] <palowoda> Welcome to the new Sun marketing machine. :)
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[10:40:58] <Pietro_S> sry for OT, but how I enable last row info mode in vi(m) - that row with line number and position of pointer ...
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[10:42:27] <asyd> set number in vim
[10:42:33] <asyd> ah no
[10:42:41] <asyd> control-g
[10:43:04] <cmihai> use ed(1) :-). 1,$n
[10:45:26] <Pietro_S> thanks, but how can I make ctrl+g global/instant? I want to have it always on
[10:48:16] <asyd> try set laststatus=1 or 2
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[10:49:38] <Pietro_S> thanks
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[11:14:14] <Pietro_S> this is really strange, I got this error "Too few arguments for template std::reverse_iterator
[11:14:45] <Pietro_S> the code is this: typedef std::reverse_iterator<iterator>         reverse_iterator;
[11:15:55] <Pietro_S> I just checked template in STL book and it should be working and uncle google fuzzle me...
[11:16:19] <timeless> what's the actual statement look like?
[11:16:38] <flyingparchment> Pietro_S: i suggest -library=stlport4 if you're not doing that already
[11:16:52] <flyingparchment> Pietro_S: the default C++ standard library is non-compliant in many ways
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[11:18:38] <Pietro_S> already have stlport4
[11:20:45] <Pietro_S> oh wait I don't have it, I put it to CXXFLAGS variable but I don't see it in sunCC line
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[11:26:09] <Pietro_S> stlport4 worked (forgot that flags for C++ are CXXFLAGS not CFLAGS), so I passed this error and see another ;-)
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[11:26:47] <flyingparchment> one day, sun need to realise that having a compiler that actually compiles C++ is a good idea
[11:26:54] <flyingparchment> and they'll add a switch to use the old library
[11:28:53] <timeless> compatibility is a funny thing :)
[11:29:12] <flyingparchment> they already broke it once when they moved to the quasi-standard library that's the default now
[11:29:36] <flyingparchment> there's another switch to use the really, really old library
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[11:38:43] <Pietro_S> is there any reference documentation for sunCC STL library?
[11:39:47] <Pietro_S> now strerror() function is missing in <cstring> header ...
[11:39:56] <flyingparchment> std::strerror
[11:40:46] <timeless> i presume http://docs.sun.com/source/819-3690/Standard.html isn't what you want
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[11:43:39] * timeless pokes flyingparchment errantly
[11:44:17] <flyingparchment> timeless: hm?
[11:44:36] <timeless> "that url's fpr you"
[11:44:48] <flyingparchment> i already know how to use the standard library
[11:45:31] <timeless> For details about the standard library, see the Standard C++ Library User's Guide and the Standard C++ Class Library Reference. Accessing Sun Studio Documentation in "Before You Begin" at the front of this book contains information about accessing this documentation. For a list of available books about the C++ standard library see Section , Commercially Available Books in "Before You Begin."
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[11:45:48] <flyingparchment> what about it?
[11:46:06] <timeless> oh, oops
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[11:46:17] <timeless> s/flyingparchment/Pietro_S/g
[11:46:58] <flyingparchment> Pietro_S: using strerror instead of std::strerror (for many C functions other than strerror) is a common error accepted by gcc.  but both of studio's libraries are more compliant and reject it.
[11:47:10] <flyingparchment> Pietro_S: if you want to do that, you have to include <string.h> instead of <cstring>
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[11:49:21] <Pietro_S> wait I'm a bit slow/dumb - so with <cstring> I need to use std::strerror and <string> for strrerror() ? That doesn't make sense to me - <cstring> header should be there for compability for C strings ...
[11:49:30] <flyingparchment> no
[11:49:44] <flyingparchment> for each C header, X, C++ provides two: <cX> and <X.h>
[11:49:53] <flyingparchment> the difference is, <X.h> puts symbols in both std:: and ::
[11:49:59] <flyingparchment> <cX> only puts the symbols in std::
[11:50:13] <flyingparchment> <X.h> are there for C compatibility - so C code that includes <string.h> and uses strerror() will continue to work.
[11:50:29] <flyingparchment> but if you use the C++ headers, <cstring>, you need to also use the C++ form std::strerror (or 'using std::strerror;')
[11:51:04] <flyingparchment> gcc is broken, and its <cX> headers also put the symbols into the global namespace.  but that is non-standard.
[11:51:32] <timsf> hi all
[11:51:44] <Pietro_S> ah, now I understand - thanks for nice explanation
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[11:54:56] <cmihai> Quake 3 + TwinView + Solaris = <3 http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/5100/screenshot3ny1.png
[11:55:58] <flyingparchment> incidentally, <string> is completely different from <cstring>.  it defines the C++ std::string class, which is unrelated to C strings
[11:56:09] <flyingparchment> (slightly unfortunate naming)
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[11:57:56] * delewis will be glad to get rid of this CRT come tomorrow
[11:58:04] <delewis> ordered myself one of those Samsung widescreens.
[11:58:15] <flyingparchment> not a Sun one?  traitor
[11:58:24] <delewis> the Sun ones are extremely overpriced.
[11:58:24] <cmihai> 2x22'' widescreen LCD == <3
[11:58:41] <delewis> I'll be going with 2x19" (the XVR-1000 doesn't put out 1650x1080)
[11:58:45] <cmihai> Ah
[11:58:53] <cmihai> Just get 22'' mate :P
[11:59:16] <cmihai> Btw, can XVR-1000 handle quake 3?
[11:59:32] <delewis> probably.
[11:59:37] <delewis> what version of OpenGL does Quake3 require?
[11:59:44] <cmihai> 1.1?
[12:00:01] <delewis> shouldn't be a problem then.
[12:00:27] <cmihai> http://ioquake3.org/?page=get they have SPARC packages :-).
[12:00:55] <delewis> I'll need to find my Quake3 media.
[12:00:59] <cmihai> You don't need it.
[12:01:12] <cmihai> Get the 72MB package, it's the demo (like full, but only 4 maps). Does multiplayer too.
[12:03:01] <Teknomancer> is it there for x86 also?
[12:03:09] <Teknomancer> wanna try out the nvidia driver in opensolaris with it
[12:03:18] <delewis> is SUNWxilrl required or is that only if you want XIL-accelerated VO?
[12:03:24] <delewis> same goes for SFWsdl
[12:03:44] <cmihai> Teknomancer: yeah sure
[12:03:55] <delewis> of course, you guys are probably using this on x86..
[12:04:06] <cmihai> delewis: I think they're there by default...but yeah, I'm using it on x86
[12:04:15] <delewis> XIL is kind of silly on an XVR-1000, given it doesn't do hardware XIL.
[12:04:20] <Teknomancer> k, i'll probably download it tonight using my bro's faster net
[12:04:21] <delewis> that's Elite3D/Creator3D.
[12:04:30] <Teknomancer> there, bookmarked.
[12:04:43] <cmihai> `It's about 80MB with content
[12:05:25] <Teknomancer> i wonder how to install it
[12:05:30] <cmihai> pkgadd -d
[12:05:33] <Teknomancer> ah ok
[12:05:38] <cmihai> Just add the quake 3 then the data, it's simple.
[12:07:03] <Teknomancer> k will need to get both the bins + data ...
[12:07:12] <cmihai> yep
[12:07:16] <cmihai> unless you have a media set
[12:10:24] <Pietro_S> cmihai: I would like TCE on *Solaris than quakes ...
[12:10:56] <cmihai> Well, Quake 1,2,3 all work, tried and tested :P
[12:11:16] <Teknomancer> TCE?
[12:11:20] <cmihai> `And all open source GL games are likely to work... quake mods, quake based (nexuis).. no idea about TCE
[12:11:59] <Teknomancer> Unreal would be sweet :)
[12:12:07] <asyd> TCE? (bis :p)
[12:12:08] <cmihai> Never tried lxrun with GL stuff though, you could give it a shot.
[12:14:08] <Pietro_S> see this link : http://www.truecombatelite.net/
[12:14:51] <Pietro_S> it's like counter strike based on wolfstein enemy teritory engine
[12:19:34] <asyd> ok
[12:20:22] <Teknomancer> does CounterStrike require u to have an account and pay-per-month thing ?
[12:20:31] <delewis> just an account.
[12:20:36] <Teknomancer> hmm
[12:20:41] <delewis> which requires a valid HL/CS CD-key.
[12:20:46] <Teknomancer> my cousin in belgium said it was paid
[12:20:53] <Teknomancer> per monthly or something
[12:20:56] <flyingparchment> anyone can run a CS server, can't they?
[12:21:09] <flyingparchment> someone tried to run one on my system.  their account didn't last long.  :)
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[12:24:32] <Pietro_S> ;-)
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[12:40:14] <Pietro_S> hmm, this line is weird (I guess that it should create new struct):  return (timeval) { m_time / 1000000, m_time % 1000000};
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[12:41:21] <Teknomancer> hm, it returns a copy of a timeval struct
[12:41:38] <flyingparchment> i think thats C99 syntax
[12:41:39] <Pietro_S> but sunCC don't like it (me too, I probably should refresh my knowledges about C)
[12:41:46] <flyingparchment> not valid C89 or C++
[12:42:03] <Teknomancer> tv_sec and tv_usec
[12:42:13] <Teknomancer> ah could b
[12:42:58] <Pietro_S> yes looks like , I hate one-liners which I didn't write
[12:43:30] <delewis> a silly one-liner at that.
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[12:48:41] <vaiktor> hola a todos...
[12:49:07] <vaiktor> mucha gente hoy por el canal?
[12:49:46] <vaiktor> hola jamesd
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[12:51:51] <vaiktor> no hay mucha actividad, no?
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[13:11:15] <Stric> vaiktor: not right now, but in english when there is
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[13:16:34] <trochej> http://www.flickr.com/photos/emperordalek/972465582/
[13:16:46] <trochej> You just gotta love the covers for sf/fantasy :)
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[13:25:05] <Pietro_S> hmm, 5 days without computers and at porting sw I feel like my brain got fast format :-(
[13:25:20] <Pietro_S> sunCC doesn't like this: char         name[nameSize + 4];
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[13:26:19] <Pietro_S> even if I make nameSize const it doesn't help nor creating another const temp variable, but suncc eats it without any problems
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[13:39:41] <Pietro_S> I love C programers:  --itr->failed_list()->reverse_max_element().base() ;-)
[13:42:07] <jmcp> Pietro_S: studio12 *might* accept that char name[nameSize+4]; but I doubt it
[13:42:28] <Pietro_S> studio12 doesn't accept it
[13:42:38] <Pietro_S> I have it
[13:42:41] <Cyrille> it's another c99 addition
[13:42:41] <jmcp> I guess that particular gcc-ism isn't ok with it then
[13:42:49] <jmcp> s/gcc-ism/c99-ism/
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[13:43:29] <Cyrille> to be fair, I've been so conditioned over the year with that notation being a no-no that it still surprises me when I see it...
[13:44:16] <richlowe> studio should accept variable length arrays if told c99 is ok.
[13:44:27] <richlowe> that's one of the things nrubsig keeps complaining about, when it makes the ctf tools explode later on.
[13:44:40] <Pietro_S> actually suncc compiler accept it, but not sunCC
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[14:03:29] <Pietro_S> this is nice error message: "/opt/SUNWspro/prod/include/CC/stlport4/stl/_function.h", line 526: Error: Cannot call through pointer to member function before defining class torrent::DownloadMain.
[14:07:27] <Pietro_S> I'm starting losing motivation to port this sw (libtorrent) ...
[14:08:01] <Teknomancer> Pietro_S:  hehe, welcome to the pain of porting :P
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[14:09:05] <Teknomancer> Pietro_S:  not sure how much differences between gcc, suncc are; maybe you could try using gcc itself? (though i'd probably be killed for suggesting that)
[14:11:46] <Pietro_S> Teknomancer: I can't because I have library compiled by sunCC which this sw depends on (already tried that it doesn't work at all)
[14:12:42] <Teknomancer> k
[14:12:58] <Gekkko> A general install of SXCE is about 4gb right?
[14:13:03] <Gekkko> with the devkit
[14:13:41] <Teknomancer> Pietro_S:  which lib?
[14:14:46] <Pietro_S> sigcpp
[14:14:50] <deather> Gekkko: yes I think
[14:15:32] <Teknomancer> Pietro_S:  so we can't link a non-gcc dynamic lib to one compiled using suncc??
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[14:16:36] <tomww> Pietro_S: I know :-(  c++ libs do not work if for the lib and the program the same compiler is used... that is very annoying and I can not see how this could be fixed in the furture...
[14:16:38] <deather> does anyone know a good documentation about implementing a filesystem with VFS for Solaris? I've been reading Solaris Internals chap. 14, but it's not very precise when dealing about paged I/O (vop_getpage(), etc)
[14:17:27] <Gekkko> OpenTTD works on Solaris!
[14:17:30] <Gekkko> I'm sold! :o
[14:17:34] <Gekkko> hmm
[14:18:58] <Gekkko> is there SDL for Solaris?
[14:19:02] <quasi> yes
[14:19:06] <Gekkko> stupid question, considering there's SDL on Amiga
[14:19:07] <Gekkko> >_>
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[14:21:07] <Gekkko> I wonder if I could get Neverwinter Nights to run on Solaris
[14:21:11] <boyd> deather: If you find one, let me know
[14:21:14] <Gekkko> could be a fun attempt.
[14:21:29] <Pietro_S> Gekkko: and you even have suncc compiled SDL ;-), you probably have it already in your sxce in SUNWlibsdl package
[14:21:46] <quasi> Gekkko: DOTT runs well with scumm
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[14:21:58] <deather> boyd: just found that: http://blogs.sun.com/sarahsblog/entry/ufs_and_the_solaris_vm
[14:22:00] <Gekkko> Neverwinter Nights isn't a ScummVM game
[14:22:07] <Gekkko> lol
[14:22:10] <Gekkko> http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=575330&forum=72
[14:22:24] <deather> though being UFS-oriented, she talks about vnode paging and how to deal with seg_map
[14:22:31] <asyd> ssh-dss AAAAB3NzaC1kc3MAAACBAJ6RSw1Ox3lUNQdnH9EPjx3Vhikp1usHBNKc8d9w0iSsdmrq5QIv1daiyt9Is0Q2AdFOkPZWozIR4zwP428sMLMapmY4dZ8Uu9TYrjxO/19zj5i8/6M/ej3Bygtfv596cI2SN8K68X9pGt20GgNkuiF1biRQF5z6Zz9be+INSZ99AAAAFQDjsPzE653U7ORpmszpotgLjPTEYwAAAIACBk4zvj8PUzZPFa4ltau427fUzUntM5ROlsvuU6xiXJheLe+EBTSEBFF6M2pb95iR2aBmTFw1JxaeU5eWo2pBrYmxouZSSFtQc5SV66YJ8eoKj40Xec1FgTFsP1Xx0YNvgNozGP/unapP4DyybwPpVriLtgDoAYFn9bF75hjpkwAAAIEAjBZDjEjryYDHltMvIKCTAYS/HgA07uOhF58yOZcU2nbO
[14:22:38] <asyd> oups
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[14:22:50] * quasi starts hacking asyds key
[14:22:54] <Gekkko> kick yourself asyd!
[14:23:01] <Gekkko> hmm
[14:23:09] <Gekkko> Solaris can't use Linux libraries can it
[14:23:20] <Gekkko> Linux-compiled libraries
[14:23:45] <Pietro_S> but if you want to use OpenGL with SDL you need to use other SDL for example from SFE repository, because SUNWlibsdl was compiled with bad options
[14:23:46] <asyd> by chance, my buffer was not filled by p0rn ascii art!
[14:24:00] <Pietro_S> Gekkko: in lx-brand yes
[14:24:17] <deather> asyd: s/by chance/unfortunately/ ;-)
[14:24:21] <Gekkko> so Pietro_S, in theory, running NWN in Solaris is entirely possible XD
[14:24:43] <Gekkko> hmm... this is an ATi
[14:24:52] <Gekkko> I don't think there's 3D-accelerated drivers for Solaris.
[14:24:54] <Pietro_S> so it's impossible
[14:25:00] <Gekkko> lol
[14:25:05] <Gekkko> I haaaate ATI
[14:25:27] <Gekkko> my 64mb nVidia PCI card runs faster and better than my Radeon x300 PCI-e 128mb
[14:25:29] <Gekkko> >_>
[14:26:34] <deather> doesn't X.org have 3D-accelerated free drivers?
[14:26:34] <Pietro_S> ATI doesn't have Solaris Friendly (TM) label  ...
[14:26:51] <Pietro_S> not for x line
[14:26:54] <deather> I remember using them under linux, but I don't know if its kernel-dependant
[14:27:23] <Gekkko> ATi has fglrx for Linux
[14:27:56] <deather> yes
[14:28:00] <coffman> well, buy nvidia or intel or die
[14:28:03] <deather> but I'm talking about free drivers
[14:28:21] <Gekkko> the "ati" driver?
[14:29:17] <deather> maybe
[14:29:34] <Gekkko> alright, brb
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[14:32:58] <boyd> deather: Cool, thanks for the link
[14:41:33] <Gekkko[PDA]> back
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[14:42:35] <JWheeler> Does anyone know if variables can actually be set in Makefile targets? I'm having no joy
[14:43:29] <bala> Hello, one serious problem installing solaris 10. It got installed. The GRUB gets displayed. But it doesnt boot
[14:43:44] <bala> Please help us to solve this problem.
[14:43:55] <curlyman> does anyone on here have any ultrasparc3 or 4 machines that they're willing to part with?
[14:45:01] <Teknomancer> all the headers are located in /usr/include right ?
[14:45:10] <delewis> no.
[14:45:10] <bala> The error that we getr when we boot is "database integrity check of /etc/svc/repository.db"
[14:45:12] <Teknomancer> i mean the system headers
[14:45:18] <Teknomancer> delewis: where else?
[14:45:21] <delewis> there's /usr/sfw/include; /usr/openwin/include; /usr/X11/include; etc.
[14:45:26] <bala> database failed
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[14:46:51] <ofu> creating HW-RAID volumes on T2000 via OBP doesnt work with 6.3-Firmware?
[14:47:10] <bala> what can be done to recover it
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[14:47:25] <quasi> ofu: are you sure you even want hw raid?
[14:48:22] <ofu> why not?
[14:48:33] <quasi> lousy controller
[14:48:35] <ofu> those are just the boot disks
[14:48:48] <quasi> I went with disksuite
[14:49:35] <jmcp> quasi: it's been svm for a while now
[14:49:55] <ofu> but hw raid is easier to maintain than sds/svm
[14:50:10] <Doc> only about 13 years
[14:50:11] <quasi> jmcp: it is going to take me another couple of years before the name sticks
[14:50:23] <jmcp> quasi: :)
[14:50:38] <Doc> probably the most surprising thing about ods/sds/svm is that it's had so few names over the years
[14:50:45] <quasi> jmcp: maybe because one of our sun techs used to call it disksweat
[14:50:50] <jmcp> heheh
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[14:57:05] <trochej> khyyy
[14:57:07] <trochej> Coffee?
[14:57:18] <willm1> hello all
[14:57:32] <willm1> i have a potential NIS issue with solaris 10u3
[14:57:57] <willm1> when i try to log in to the machine with the gui, it fails
[14:58:17] <quasi> trochej: good point - I'd better go grab another quad espresso before our coffee bar closes
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[14:58:21] <willm1> when i type my password correctly, it immediately says "Login incorrect; please try again."
[14:58:45] <willm1> when i type it intentionally incorrectly, it returns the same message, but with the expected delay
[14:59:05] <willm1> logging into the "command line login" works as expected
[14:59:17] <willm1> and logging in as root in the gui works.
[14:59:22] <willm1> any ideas?
[15:00:21] <CIA-26> dm199847: 6561752 idmap tool could check better for malformed sids/pids, 6564886 idmap should use quoted strings instead of backslash when exporting smbusers to a file
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[15:11:17] <willm1> logging in via ssh also works, if that helps
[15:12:18] <quasi> willm1: turn on auth debugging and see if it gets you any more info
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[15:19:10] <willm1> i added the following to /etc/syslog.conf:
[15:19:20] <willm1> auth.debug      /var/log/auth_log \n user.debug      /var/log/user_log
[15:19:34] <willm1> (where the \n means a literal newline, not '\n')
[15:20:01] <willm1> and the only time i get a message in auth_log is when i log in as root or su to root
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[16:10:16] <trochej> grave bugs of syslog-ng (-> 2.0.0-1) <pending> #427791 - syslog-ng dies after cron.daily
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[16:48:28] <willm1> i discovered the solution to the problem: nsswitch.conf had been changed, and dtlogin only reads it on startup
[16:48:41] <willm1> so i did "svcadm restart cde-login" and that fixed it
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[17:04:04] <sickness> http://grommit.com/gallery/d/207203-2/DSC_2942.JPG <- rezpect. :P
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[17:08:49] <tomww> reminder: telephone conference around caiman dwarf installer - dial in if you are intereseted:
[17:08:52] <tomww> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/caiman/NSI_Meetings/
[17:09:14] <tomww> please mute your phone if not speaking
[17:09:43] <Teknomancer> hmm caiman dwarf installer? :)
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[17:09:59] <Teknomancer> yeah i know, i probably i shd google for it
[17:12:11] <PerterB> or just look at the project page
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[17:24:13] <Teknomancer> cu all tomorrow
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[17:39:42] <axisys> after installing the recommended cluster patch now I can see the nge0 on x2100 M2
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[17:43:40] <axisys> if I wanted to jump a fresh x2100 M2 thru nvidia interface I needed to patch the miniroot first as explained here
[17:43:43] <axisys> http://www.sun.com/products-n-solutions/hardware/docs/html/819-6592-13/Chap2.html#14416
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[17:53:19] <quasi> ah, easier than bothering with nfo
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[17:58:00] <WickedWicky> is there, any explainable reason why JDE takes a full 5 minutes to launch and once it runs is super fast?
[17:58:51] <RElling> what is a JDE?
[17:59:01] <WickedWicky> Java Desktop Environment
[18:00:10] <bda> WickedWicky: It has so associate with the core mind.
[18:00:11] <Cyrille> that's a new one.
[18:00:27] <bda> But once it does, it can do direct neural pre-emptive caching.
[18:00:28] <WickedWicky> bda: thanks for this enlightment!
[18:00:29] <Cyrille> Normally you have either the Common Desktop Environment (CDE) or the Java Desktop System (JDS)
[18:00:34] <quasi> WickedWicky: did you set a hostname that resolves?
[18:00:35] <WickedWicky> ok
[18:00:36] <WickedWicky> JDS
[18:00:54] <RElling> hmmm... login to desktop or slow mode to login?
[18:01:14] <WickedWicky> it takes three minutes for the logging screen to appear
[18:01:15] <Cyrille> anything in the logs?
[18:01:17] <migi> WickedWicky, if you want to speed up a little than you should follow this post: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=30213&tstart=150
[18:01:26] <WickedWicky> then another full two to three minutes for the login process
[18:01:57] <RElling> 3 minutes is a magic number, it is a name service lookup timeout
[18:03:13] <quasi> maybe the basicreg waiting to do a lookup?
[18:03:24] <WickedWicky> lemme try
[18:03:32] <migi> quasi, nope
[18:03:39] <migi> but it loads jre, so it takes time
[18:04:23] <RElling> also, the first time after an install, there is a lot of other stuff going on in parallel... goes twice as fast on a dual core :-)
[18:04:56] <WickedWicky> quasi: I put the host in /etc/hosts
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[18:07:55] <comay> WickedWicky: make sure that "files" is your first entry for hosts & ipnodes in /etc/nsswitch.conf too
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[18:11:30] <axisys> quasi: next hurdle would be to access the console thru serial port.. all I get is this
[18:11:34] <axisys> /SP/AgentInfo -> start console
[18:11:37] <axisys> console activate successful
[18:11:40] <axisys> press ESC ( to terminate session...
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[18:11:42] <axisys> it sits there.. get no OS..
[18:12:20] <axisys> if the system is in BIOS i can see it from SP but as soon as it boots to OS I see nothing in the console
[18:12:38] <axisys> I dont even see the grub menu while the system is booting
[18:12:45] <axle_512> anyone know when Solaris 10u4 will be released?
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[18:15:20] <quasi> axle_512: in August
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[18:15:34] <axle_512> thanks...  good to hear :)
[18:15:42] <quasi> axisys: make sure you've patched to the very latest firmware
[18:16:14] <quasi> axisys: and follow the documentation about options to grub and things to make it work
[18:16:23] <quasi> the console
[18:16:34] <quasi> kinda tricky
[18:17:01] <axisys> quasi: i did upgrade to latest fw
[18:17:18] <axisys> that was easy.. just from webui.. upload teh fw and voila!
[18:17:19] <quasi> right, you still need to fix solaris as well iirc
[18:17:47] <axisys> grub is checked.. problem is I dont see the grub menu :-(
[18:18:14] <quasi> you need boot options
[18:18:35] <quasi> read the FM - I don't have time to do all your work
[18:18:40] <axisys> console=ttya
[18:19:04] <quasi> needs more than that ... and isn't it usually b?
[18:19:17] <axisys> quasi: hmm
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[18:20:19] <quasi> something about messing with console speeds if memory serves me right, but that's 6+ months ago
[18:21:37] <timeless> hi alanc
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[18:23:08] <alanc> good morning
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[18:25:30] * timeless laments not being stateside
[18:25:47] <timeless> 7.30pm here, time for me to find a movie or something
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[18:29:52] <tomww> axisys: you should boot to any of the working soalris-instances on your disk and mount the slice with the grub menu to fix that serial-stuff from there
[18:31:33] <axisys> tomww: well I have ssh access to OS .. no problem with grub itself.. just SP cannot see the grub in console
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[18:34:31] <axisys> this is how my grub file looks like http://rafb.net/p/Fj8iot11.html
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[18:34:59] <axisys> also my eeprom shows console is pointing to ttya.. I will try ttyb as quasi suggested
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[18:37:31] <axisys> where is this file bootenv.rc located ?
[18:38:19] <axisys> foudn it
[18:38:29] <axisys> in there console is set to ttyb
[18:38:39] <axisys> so i will match that in eeprom and reboot
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[18:40:39] <axisys> i think that was it
[18:40:43] <axisys> console=ttyb
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[18:40:50] <axisys> i will confirm in few mins
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[18:42:32] <tomww> /boot/solaris/bootenv.rc
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[18:43:01] <tomww> or with the offest of the mountpoint of anoter solaris-instance e.g. /mnt/boot/solaris/bootenv.rc
[18:43:09] <tomww> above for the eeprom-settings
[18:43:33] <tomww> and /boot/grub/menu.lst or /mnt/boot/grub/menu.lst  for the other instances of solaris
[18:44:54] <tomww> axisys: you could try setting serial --unit=1 if you are really sure about ttya/ttyb
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[18:57:29] <axisys> tomww: let me post my finding here in few mins
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[19:00:33] <CIA-26> gd78059: 6587116 hme doesn't work with tiny UDP frames
[19:00:34] <CIA-26> as145665: 6214247 Solaris 10_74 L1: problem when running commmands in interactive mode on solaris, 6528610 xargs -p does not work in some locales
[19:01:29] <richlowe> gdamore: so, what do you intend to break before the next DE? :)
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[19:07:44] <axisys> tomww: crossout console=ttyb.. back to console=ttya :-)
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[19:28:06] <axisys> i got the console working
[19:28:19] <axisys> yehh!!! after two days of work
[19:28:40] <axisys> this is what I followed.. for solaris .. https://www.sun.com/products-n-solutions/hardware/docs/html/819-6594-14/index.html#53740
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[19:29:09] <axisys> most of it is said by quasi.. increase speed and use ttyb
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[19:29:59] <axisys> two days worth of struggling
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[19:35:57] <bda> http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/004457.html # Me (to Krissy): So, would you mind if I tape bacon to the cat?
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[20:19:33] <gdamore> richlowe: I hadn't thought yet about what to break before the next DE... maybe the VM subsystem?   Or just the filesystem subsystem? :-)
[20:29:12] <Gman> you guys dialled in?
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[20:32:00] <sommerfeld> dialed in to the jim hughes psarc meeting?
[20:32:39] <Gman> yeah
[20:36:27] <axisys> tomww: i can see the OS console from SP since I changed the console=ttyb on eeprom and speed to 115200 on bootenv.rc
[20:36:43] <axisys> but I still don't see the grub menu thru SP
[20:38:00] <axisys> this is how my grub looks like http://rafb.net/p/xRrqOi14.html
[20:39:13] <tomww> axisys: if youhave really the new ilom/bios tehn remove the grub serialconfig at the top of menu.lst
[20:40:09] <tomww> and switch BIOS to use serial console
[20:40:22] <tomww> cu laer
[20:40:29] <tomww> later
[20:40:34] <axisys> tomww: thnx .. later man
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[20:42:03] <Bernyhome> 'evening
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[21:00:20] <CIA-26> vk199839: 6552966 ssh should issue warning message for expired passwords again
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[21:30:44] <sstallion> hrmm
[21:30:48] <sstallion> any sendmail guys around?
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[21:36:13] <hile_> not very good one, but i use sendmail
[21:36:59] <Mdx4> sstallion: me too, but don't ask me about UUCP and other esoteric features :)
[21:38:57] <sstallion> i think ive figured out a workaround
[21:39:13] <Mdx4> ??
[21:39:16] <sstallion> im a postfix guy myself, but on these other machines/zones, i use sendmail to forward to the main smtp server
[21:39:23] <sstallion> basically, home dirs are all on nfs
[21:39:27] <Mdx4> perfect
[21:39:30] <sstallion> and .forward points to procmail on some users
[21:39:34] <Mdx4> use a SMART HOST so :)
[21:39:39] <sstallion> i do :)
[21:39:54] <sstallion> except, .forward really makes things awkward when used on shared home dirs
[21:40:10] <Mdx4> use aliases :)
[21:40:32] <sstallion> is there a way other than modifying /etc/mail/alises?
[21:40:38] <sstallion> *aliases
[21:41:04] <Mdx4> no .forward is for the user manage, root should use aliases file :)
[21:41:20] <sstallion> well... users live in LDAP, so that makes maintenence pretty difficult
[21:41:40] <sstallion> essentially each time a user is created, aliases would have to be updated for each one on each host
[21:41:52] <Mdx4> sstallion: configure sendmail to access LDAP :)
[21:42:04] <sstallion> hm
[21:42:51] <Mdx4> you can store the aliases also on LDAP but you should not configure the mailer as smarthost in this case.
[21:43:04] <Mdx4> but as MTA itself :)
[21:43:14] <sstallion> well, another option is to just set the MDA to procmail on the postfix side
[21:43:55] <sstallion> will smart hosts relay local mail?
[21:44:16] <Mdx4> if you do aliases sure :)
[21:44:45] <sstallion> okay
[21:44:50] <Mdx4> is the default behaviour for the service accounts.
[21:45:08] <sstallion> so basicaly just create aliases for each user in LDAP, point sendmail to it, and *poof*? :)
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[21:45:36] <sstallion> will that keep .forward files from being invoked on the sendmail side?
[21:45:40] <Mdx4> sstallion: sure, but don't think that is a simple task :)
[21:45:49] <Mdx4> sstallion: i prefer /etc/aliases usually :)
[21:45:52] <sstallion> any sendmail related is rarely simple :)
[21:46:11] <Mdx4> anyway with m4 is a really simple task :)
[21:46:15] <sstallion> its been well over tens years since ive done anything sendmail related
[21:46:23] <sstallion> *ten
[21:47:34] <Mdx4> http://www.sendmail.org/m4/ldap.html should clarify much :)
[21:47:41] <sstallion> ahh thanks
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[21:48:43] <Mdx4> i don't know exactly how, but is possible :)
[21:48:48] <sstallion> yeesh
[21:48:53] <tsoome> sendmail is quite easy if you stick on m4 files
[21:48:55] <sstallion> the sendmail ldap schema is ugly as hell
[21:49:45] <Mdx4> tsoome: m4 is for wimps :)
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[21:50:38] <Mdx4> but is also true that cf is for crazy ones :)
[21:50:50] <sstallion> s/crazy/lazy/
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[21:51:55] * WickedWicky is LiveUpdate devirginized
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[21:54:31] <theRealballchalk> hi
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[22:43:36] <alanc> heh - stevel actually had to define "teh sux0r" in his ON heads up?
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[22:44:06] <stevel> alanc: based on advise from the C-team who thought it might be helpful
[22:44:27] <sommerfeld> hahah
[22:44:31] <stevel> apparently not everyone is as cool as me, go figure
[22:44:32] * stevel ducks
[22:45:01] <alanc> if everyone was as cool as you, they'd all be working on SCM migration too
[22:46:04] <stevel> and OpenSolaris development would be at a standstill while nothing innovative is done elsewhere :-P
[22:47:04] <quasi> axisys: so it all works now? excellent!
[22:47:31] <alanc> what innovative?   all the Indiana articles in the press say we're all busy copying Linux...
[22:47:56] <stevel> perhaps the first thing they do for indiana would be to put more resources into converting the SCM...
[22:48:04] <stevel> ;-)
[22:48:21] <stevel> aww. gman isn't even here to take my flamebait
[22:49:08] <alanc> we already put him on the spot for Indiana today though, during the ARC call
[22:49:11] <quasi> alanc: perhaps innovative is just another word for copy-paste
[22:49:13] <sommerfeld> i'm waiting to see how jan responds to my last post on boot archive suckage
[22:50:10] <sommerfeld> (sux0rage?)
[22:51:09] <sommerfeld> "What problems does this solve that are worse
[22:51:09] <sommerfeld> than a recurring risk that after a power outage boot will be
[22:51:09] <sommerfeld> interrupted while unanswerable questions are posed on the console?"
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[22:58:17] <axisys> quasi: all but grub menu.. i dont see the grub menu but I see all the BIOS messages and then the OS banner and console prompt.. it skips the grub menu
[22:58:30] <axisys> so no big deal
[22:58:41] <axisys> i just needed to access the OS thru SP console
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[23:00:23] <quasi> axisys: I think I managed to get those by rebooting the box and starting console right after the reboot command
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[23:02:10] <axisys> quasi: those meaning grub? reboot -- console ?
[23:02:15] <axisys> :-)
[23:02:19] <quasi> yeah
[23:02:35] <elektronkind> what the hell is 401kclient ?
[23:02:49] * quasi is digging very, very deep in memory and not really remembering much
[23:02:56] <axisys> quasi: no seriously.. reboot -- console ?
[23:03:21] <quasi> axisys: something like it
[23:03:59] <quasi> axisys: it seems that if you have the console open when the machine is reset, then you get a bit more access
[23:04:39] <MooingLemur> is there a way to say "first monday of the month" in crontab?
[23:04:40] <axisys> quasi: i noticed i get more output thru DB9 connection than thru netmgmt..
[23:04:58] <sommerfeld> MooingLemur: no.
[23:05:08] <MooingLemur> k, thanks
[23:05:49] <sommerfeld> you can schedule the script to run every monday and have it do nothing if it's not the first monday, though
[23:05:59] <axisys> MooingLemur: unless some body found the MOD .. mod(daynumber,X) == 0 it is monday
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[23:07:02] <tomww> quasi: this should not be the case with a x4x000 machine.... the properly display BIOS, grub-menu and the OS.... all on the SP-console without breaks....
[23:08:08] <oninoshiko> elektronkind :someone doing busness with a tax-deffered investmant dealer
[23:08:11] <quasi> tomww: right - we\re talking about x2x00
[23:08:44] <oninoshiko> (boy im slow today
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[23:39:00] <alanc> hg migration question: when people putback multiple bug fixes at once, do you just list them all and not worry about only the first one showing in the default hg log output?
[23:39:13] <alanc> or do you make the first line a list of all the bug ids?
[23:42:14] <alanc> hmm, the onnv hg log looks like the former...
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[23:56:40] <myrkraverk> hi all





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