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[00:51:19] <boyd> Morning, all
[00:51:35] <richlowe> evenin'
[00:52:00] <boyd> Does anyone know what it means when a case is approved but not integrated into on? I'm thinking of 2003/674 which was approved in February
[00:52:04] <boyd> Hey richlowe
[00:52:17] <richlowe> boyd: that they aren't done yet?
[00:52:38] <boyd> done writing you mean?
[00:52:48] <boyd> It seems not to be 2 months work..
[00:52:53] <boyd> err 6 months
[00:53:33] <boyd> And it it's low on the priorities, why re-awaken the case in Feb if you're not ready to work on it?
[00:53:42] <boyd> s/And it/And if
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[01:02:11] <axisys_>
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[01:02:37] <Gman> hey boyd, richlowe
[01:02:50] <boyd> Hey, Gman
[01:06:19] <richlowe> hey Gman.
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[01:14:21] <Mathman> so...correct me if I'm wrong here.  is solaris completely open now?  or are some parts of it still not open.  I coulda sworn I read or whatever that solaris express is completely open these days, as will be solaris 11.
[01:14:46] <Gman> it's mostly open
[01:15:06] <Mathman> ha, so I'm wrong apparently.  alrighty.
[01:15:07] <Gman> there's a few pieces that are still encumbered, but over time those will hopefully go away/get replaced
[01:15:40] <Gman> [very small proportion though]
[01:15:47] <Mathman> so how does something like nexenta or whatever work then if solaris isn't completely open?  I guess those parts that aren't open are just drivers or something?
[01:16:02] <Gman> because they're using binary bits
[01:16:11] <Gman> and there's a redistributable license on those binary bits
[01:16:16] <Mathman> I see
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[01:22:27] <SYS64738> hi
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[01:41:52] <gnut> hi all
[01:42:17] <gnut> how do you know what's making a mount busy preventing you from unmounting?
[01:42:46] <jmcp> fuser -uf  /mountpoint
[01:42:47] <jmcp> mostly
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[01:44:11] <gnut> jmcp: thanks.... i tried it. it didn't work on my removable media. should it?
[01:44:24] <jmcp> can't recall
[01:44:40] <jmcp> have you tried "eject" on your removable media, and seen a "busy" response?
[01:45:27] <gnut> yeah
[01:45:37] <PerterB> fuser -c ... ?
[01:45:40] <gnut>  eject /media/NO\ NAME
[01:45:41] <gnut> unmount of /media/NO NAME /dev/dsk/c3t0d0p0 failed: umount: /media/NO NAME busy
[01:46:13] <SYS64738> to make a mail server (qmail + qmailscanner + spamassassin and clamav) is it bettere a whole or sparse zone ?
[01:46:15] <jmcp> :(
[01:46:19] <PerterB> (without the -c it just checks the mountpoint itself, not files/dirs within it)
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[01:47:49] <gnut> odd... i use -c on the directory /media/NO\ NAME and it just spits out the directory name with a colon... no indication of which process is tying it up.
[01:47:58] <gnut> it's just a USB memory stick that i copied a file onto.
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[01:49:38] <gnut> and I pretty much have things all closed except for xchat, and firefox
[01:50:03] <gnut> i'm going to kilil my terminal window and open a new one
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[02:07:58] <nachox> evening people
[02:09:09] * Tempt waves
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[04:51:17] <rbrown> can zones support a different date than the global yet?
[04:51:54] <jamesd> i think this was being worked on, they currently support setting TZ to another time zone i beleve
[04:52:13] <richlowe> see, now I'm intrigued.  Why would you want a different (and presumably incorrect) date?
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[04:53:35] <rbrown> richlowe, mostly for testing different scenerios
[04:59:41] <jmcp> rbrown: Solaris is not a time machine
[04:59:50] <boyd> Hey, jmcp, we heard you the first time!
[04:59:54] <jmcp> :)
[05:00:50] <boyd> Actually, I mean in -code, but I'm happy with the time machine connotation :)
[05:00:54] <jmcp> heh
[05:01:01] <jmcp> yeah, having problems with sending email today
[05:01:12] * jmcp wanders off to find a birthday card
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[05:20:21] <StylusEater> does the installer still require 756 or more of ram?
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[05:25:44] <nachox> you dont need that much ram if you dont pick the developer install
[05:26:04] <nachox> you need at least 512 because of grub in x86
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[05:33:26] <kito> how can you add a persistent directory to /var/run?
[05:33:42] <kito> or is there better place to put pids for custom daemons
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[06:14:46] <boyd> Why not just put them straight in /var/run?
[06:22:20] <kito> boyd because the daemons run under a user that doesn't have write perms for /var/run
[06:22:45] <dlg> kito: make a dir under /var/run that they can write to
[06:22:58] <kito> dlg that gets blown away after a reboot
[06:23:07] <dlg> kito: so make it again
[06:23:12] <kito> err
[06:23:23] <flyingparchment> [[ -d /var/run/myprogram ]] || mkdir /var/run/myprogram
[06:23:25] <flyingparchment> myprogram &
[06:23:54] <richlowe> if you're putting pids in there, why would it being blow away matter?
[06:24:09] <flyingparchment> because you need to recreate it on every boot
[06:24:12] <flyingparchment> (e.g. in your start script)
[06:24:14] <richlowe> So? :)
[06:24:29] <kito> richlowe the daemon doesn't have write permissions to /var/run, and I didn't really want to grant them
[06:25:22] <kito> flyingparchment I guess I could do something like that in the svc method
[06:25:35] <kito> but that wouldn't addign the permissions
[06:25:41] <kito> s/addign/assign/
[06:26:37] <flyingparchment> chown
[06:27:09] <kito> fair enough
[06:27:54] <kito> err, wait
[06:28:05] <dlg> kito: install -d?
[06:28:06] <kito> do the methods not get ran by the user specified int he svc manifest?
[06:29:39] <Tempt> Or you could create a directory that wasn't on /var/run for your software.
[06:30:29] <kito> yeah Ican come up with plenty of workarounds
[06:30:50] <kito> I just thought it would be nice and clean to have a persistent dir in /var/run
[06:31:15] <Tempt> given /var/run is mounted tmpfs with no size limits, there is a potential DOS in there ...
[06:31:32] <kito> And I am still curious as to who/what/how/when those get created anyway
[06:32:33] <kito> thats a god point
[06:32:39] <Tempt> look in /lib/svc/method/fs-minimal
[06:32:40] <kito> a good one too
[06:32:50] <kito> ahh
[06:32:53] <kito> thanks
[06:33:16] <Tempt> you could mount another tmpfs at that point for your application, although a more correct way would be to add another manifest and another method
[06:33:25] <Tempt> so upgrades wouldn't blam away your changes.
[06:33:42] <Tempt> You could also specify a size= limit to prevent DOS situations.
[06:34:07] <kito> I think that is the way to go
[06:34:12] <kito> thanks again
[06:34:29] <boyd> There probably shoudl be a size= on /var/run anyway, considering what it's for...
[06:34:54] <kito> what uses /var/run/daemon?
[06:35:04] <kito> noting on my systems
[06:35:09] <kito> s/noting/nothing/
[06:36:57] <Tempt> Nothing running on this host that uses it. I'm sure there's a reason.
[06:37:46] <kito> must be, it was added semi-recently
[06:38:07] <kito> > b48 anyway
[06:38:13] <Tempt> Bollocks
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[06:38:16] <Tempt> It's on 10u2
[06:38:18] <kito> that sounds like a dbus thing
[06:38:46] <kito> huh
[06:39:02] <kito> not on my sxcr b48
[06:39:11] <kito> or b36
[06:39:39] <Tempt> Yes, well, it's definately present on Solaris 10 u2 and u3
[06:39:46] <Tempt> Don't have anything older around here to check...
[06:43:21] <catena> which's the best open source mail server?
[06:44:32] <jmcp> the one which does the job you need it to
[06:44:58] <flyingparchment> catena: postfix and exim are both well thought of
[06:44:59] <dlg> try postfix if you're new to it
[06:45:44] <catena> what about courier, sendmail, and qmail?
[06:46:06] <flyingparchment> i thought courier was an MDA/imap/pop thing
[06:46:31] <kito> it is
[06:47:07] <kito> catena qmail is a headache to configure/maintain imo
[06:47:51] <flyingparchment> the only reason i think you'd want sendmail is because your OS vendor supports it, or your organisation standardised on it, or you already know it.
[06:48:06] <flyingparchment> it doesn't really have much merit of its own these days.  (it works well enough, but that's about it)
[06:48:19] <dlg> it has merit
[06:48:22] * dlg hearts milters
[06:48:52] <dlg> though i think postfix supports them too now
[06:48:58] <catena> flyingparchment yes im running sendmail on solaris
[06:49:16] <flyingparchment> sun will give you more support with sendmail than postfix :)
[06:49:19] <flyingparchment> if that matters to you
[06:49:56] <catena> what's the case with meta1
[06:50:09] <nachox> i think the osol guys are using postfix for their mailing lists and such
[06:50:25] <flyingparchment> meta1?  i don't know what that is
[06:51:33] <catena> http://www.meta1.org/
[06:52:32] <flyingparchment> i don't see the point.  don't we already have enough mtas?
[06:54:07] <catena> simply
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[06:56:11] <kito> meta1 seems to be slightly more threaded than postfix
[06:56:16] <kito> interesting
[06:56:21] <kito> hadn't seent hat one before
[06:56:24] <kito> nice clean config too
[06:56:31] <kito> s/hat/that/
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[06:59:04] <catena> "sendmail has the reputation of having the most hideous configuration file in the history of mankind. it's extremely long and incredibly cryptic." is there any point in this?
[06:59:31] <bda> Wise to learn from other's mistakes?
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[07:00:26] <CIA-26> vp157776: 6566235 disabling and re-enabling put nfs/server service in offline state after restarting svc.startd
[07:00:27] <nachox> catena, yes
[07:00:29] <flyingparchment> catena: any point in what?  sendmail?  i suggested a couple above
[07:00:57] <lloy0076> Err, I suppose the way to get a CVV2 number from a Credit Card Number is not known....
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[07:01:09] <lloy0076> <-- that is a dastardly stupid question I know but...
[07:01:11] <flyingparchment> lloy0076: that would kind of defeat the point, wouldn't it?
[07:01:37] <lloy0076> Well, then how am I meant to know that Trent isn't just verifying CVV2 numbers regardless of what I send him?
[07:01:39] * lloy0076 sigh
[07:01:50] <flyingparchment> who?
[07:02:04] <lloy0076> Oh, sorry. In cryptographic jargon, Trent is the trusted authority.
[07:02:17] <jmcp> oh, he sits between Alice and Bob?
[07:02:18] <lloy0076> In this case, Trent would probably be the payment gateway authorities for example.
[07:02:23] <nachox> yep
[07:02:25] <flyingparchment> whydo you care?
[07:02:32] <flyingparchment> you = the merchant
[07:03:19] <lloy0076> I really don't know why a merchant would care whether the entity he was speaking to was a) the entity he wanted to speak to and b) if that entity were actually fulfilling its role correctly
[07:03:24] <lloy0076> :(
[07:03:40] <flyingparchment> i wasn't aware the CVV verified either of those things
[07:03:45] <flyingparchment> maybe i understood its purpose
[07:03:58] <lloy0076> Well, it probably doesn't.
[07:04:19] <lloy0076> nvm
[07:05:14] <lloy0076> [I'm running on the assumption there is some algorithm or there is one or more trusted authenticators who verify CVV2 values]
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[07:06:28] <flyingparchment> "The number is generated when the card is issued, by encrypting the card number and expiry date under a key known only to the issuing bank. Supplying this code in a transaction is intended to verify that the customer has the card in their physical possession."
[07:06:31] <flyingparchment> (wikipedia)
[07:07:20] <lloy0076> Ah, fair enough.
[07:29:25] <jmcp> which is great unless you have somebody who memorises all that info
[07:29:56] <jmcp> after all, cardid + expiry date + CVV2 is only 23 or 24 digits
[07:29:59] <jmcp> easuy
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[07:50:19] * Doc mumbles something about "track 4" information
[07:50:54] <Doc> err.. track 2
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[08:01:38] <g4lt-mordant> even better since CVV is only three digits, after you have 16 down, three is pretty trivial
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[08:12:06] <Tempt> Man.
[08:12:21] <Tempt> If you want some credit cards, just send some emails out with a dodgy webpage and people will come rushing in.
[08:12:27] <Tempt> This has been proven time after time.
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[08:22:54] <trochej> :)
[08:22:57] <trochej> Coffee?
[08:23:29] <Tempt> Mmm
[08:23:30] <Tempt> Coffee...
[08:23:53] <quasi> Coffee! I knew I'd forgotten something
[08:25:52] <trochej> :)
[08:25:59] <trochej> I like to be helpful
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[08:41:50] <dosiu> :)
[08:51:53] <Doc> i used to be helpful
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[08:52:27] <WickedWicky> good morning!
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[08:53:51] <trochej> Morning
[08:53:56] <trochej> Very good morning
[08:59:20] <WickedWicky> eek, 10% battery left on my laptop
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[09:00:23] <gnut> hi all
[09:00:37] <gnut> i'm having issues with the BCM5752 (bge) nic
[09:00:54] <dennis> WickedWicky: whats that in cpu cycles?
[09:01:17] <trochej> gnut: I can give you working driver.
[09:01:23] <trochej> At least in Sol 10
[09:01:32] <gnut> trochej: you think it'll work in build 62?
[09:01:41] <gnut> trochej: okay. got a site where I can download it?
[09:01:49] <trochej> gnut: Wait a moment
[09:01:58] <trochej> gnut: I?l give you a link
[09:01:59] <gnut> trochej: okay.
[09:02:02] <gnut> thanks
[09:02:42] 
[09:03:09] <gnut> yes.
[09:03:12] <gnut> for the dell latitude d620
[09:03:55] <trochej> gnut: http://213.76.131.35/~damian/{sol86-10.0.3.zip,solaris-3.0.0.zip}
[09:03:57] <trochej> One of those
[09:04:07] <trochej> Probably the first one, I cant remember now
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[09:04:29] 
[09:05:47] <gnut> trochej:  i found the first one on the broadcom page under the netxtreme SERVER page
[09:05:52] <gnut> and i'm trying it out right now
[09:06:04] <gnut> but the problem is that it registers my driver as bcme0
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[09:06:17] <gnut> and then gives me a bunch of errors
[09:06:21] <gnut> i haven't tried the second one though
[09:08:12] <trochej> gnut: It works for me, bcm5750 (so an earlier version)
[09:08:40] <gnut> trochej: hmm.. okay and it registers as bcme0?
[09:08:45] <gnut> i'll try it again.
[09:09:42] <gnut> maybe the driver is working and the issues are something else....
[09:09:51] <gnut> grr... getting dells to work is so troublesome
[09:10:53] <gnut> it'sbooting right now and it says bcme0 link is up
[09:11:03] <gnut> but rigth after that, i get ata0 warnings and timeouts
[09:11:18] <flyingparchment> ata0?  irq conflict? :)
[09:11:19] <gnut> but when i disconnect the network card in the bios, none of these ata0 timeouts occur
[09:11:22] <gnut> hmmm
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[09:11:24] <gnut> could be.
[09:11:29] <gnut> any way to resolve that?
[09:11:33] <flyingparchment> i thought they'd gone away years ago though
[09:11:56] <gnut> never underestimate the powers of cost cutting
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[09:13:16] <gnut> Gen-ATA error code 0x23
[09:13:18] <gnut> 0x3 i meant
[09:13:26] <gnut> error for command 'write sector'
[09:13:44] <gnut> all warnings though... even though it says error
[09:14:08] <flyingparchment> it's a warning that the command returned an error :)
[09:14:13] <gnut> heheh
[09:14:14] <gnut> yeah
[09:14:17] <gnut> that's what it says
[09:14:21] <gnut> it says error level informational
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[09:14:56] <trochej> What it an irc channel for input method?
[09:16:09] <asyd> \_o<
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[09:19:50] <devel1> Hello!
[09:20:27] <devel1> Can I use PC-like NICs (for example 3COM 905) in SUN Blade 1000 64 bit slots ?
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[09:22:19] <tsoome> if you can compile the driver. for any reason, sun does not provide binary drivers, even if the card is supported in x86
[09:23:28] <devel1> I mean, will it work in 64 bit PCI slot ?
[09:24:28] <tsoome> if your card is supporting this slot;)
[09:25:09] <devel1> thats my question :)
[09:25:20] <tsoome> check the spec
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[09:25:51] <tsoome> but without the driver it's not usable anyhow...
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[09:36:16] <jmcp> devel1: http://homepage2.nifty.com/mrym3/taiyodo/eng/index.html
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[09:36:31] <jmcp> devel1: Murayama provides sparc builds iirc
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[09:38:16] <tsoome> yeah, there goes the single source and all code will run on both platform idea....
[09:38:49] <boyd> Hey, has anybody seen anything to back up the CUPS FUD on -discuss?
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[09:41:17] <Corpuscule> Hello
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[09:53:58] <devel1> jmcp thanks a lot!!!
[09:55:10] <Chipdancer> hi guys
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[09:56:47] <Chipdancer> I've got snv_66+xen installed on an older piece of hardware (no USB) where the uhci driver is toxic and causes the system to crash.  This is fine, it's now configured to disable uhci on boot for the normal solaris kernel.
[09:56:48] <richlowe> boyd: does it really count as FUD when it's one mind destroying line?
[09:57:17] <Chipdancer> the question I'm trying to solve is how can I make it so that the xen dom0 kernel passes the same parameter through to the dom0 solaris kernel (-B disable-uhci=true)
[09:57:41] <Chipdancer> placing those extra flags on the kernel line in grub.conf on the dom0 entry doesn't help
[09:59:33] <Chipdancer> on a normal xen domU you would add those options in the xen guest configuration file's extras line
[09:59:46] <Chipdancer> does anybody know the equivalent for dom0?
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[10:03:54] <devel1> May be someone have binary version of "elxl" for SPARC ?
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[10:12:43] <trochej> nope )
[10:17:14] <quasi> devel1: another option for a very cheap nic is http://www.unixzone.dk/unix/20060110/cheap-gigabit-ethernet-on-sparc/
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[10:22:33] <tomww> if on buys a new NIC now, he should think of what features he wants. in the near future there will be queueing on the NIC for different virtual NICs .... (e.g for XEN or Zones usage...)
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[10:23:56] <Tempt> e1000g seems to be the easier option for intel and SPARC now
[10:24:17] <Tempt> And they're now piss-cheap.l
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[10:26:35] <sickness> Tempt: does pci-e ethernet adapters work on opensolaris x86?
[10:27:04] <quasi> Tempt: still costing 3 times or more what the cheapo cards do
[10:27:10] <quasi> sickness: some of them do
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[10:33:04] <sbahra> brendang, ping?
[10:33:28] <sbahra> brendang, have a performance counter question for you :-)
[10:33:45] <Tempt> quasi: Yeah, $30 instead of $10. If you need gigabit and can afford a gig switch, chances are you can spend the twenty lousy bucks.
[10:33:58] <Tempt> sickness: No idea about pci-e/x86.
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[10:37:05] <quasi> Tempt: seeing more like $40 - 50 around here
[10:37:21] <Tempt> Depends how much you shop around I guess
[10:37:34] <quasi> sickness: look at the hcl under compatible pci devices
[10:37:37] <Tempt> Still, $50 for a decent gigabit card is less than the cost of a port on a decent switch.
[10:37:47] <quasi> Tempt: that is after shopping around ;)
[10:38:06] <Tempt> Fair cop.
[10:38:09] <Tempt> The price will only come down.
[10:39:41] <quasi> been stuck there a long time, but yeah - I've got to find the time to pick up a couple to use instead of the built in nge that is detected by nge, but only works with nfo
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[10:39:46] <Tempt> No doubt this time next year 10Gb cards will be down to the $150-$200 mark.
[10:40:39] <quasi> that I seriously doubt
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[10:43:05] <BatonT> try finding a cheap 10gE switch :P
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[10:44:13] <sickness> quasi: is the hcl being updated? last time I used to search on it, newest cpu was 80286 and newest card was adaptec ISA scsi controllers :P
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[10:48:53] <sickness> oh, I've another big question
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[10:54:51] <sickness> will the heads up on solaris support for athlon64 frequency management in snv70 conflict with frkit? do you advice to remove frkit before liveupgrading from snv69 to snv70?
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[11:00:22] <CIA-26> rh87107: 6404003 optimize_symtab() can be inefficient for large symtabs, 6482731 core file mappings not correctly associated with their files, 6527491 file_info_new() could still do a better job of finding associated mappings, 6530223 truss -u can malfunction when large pages are in use
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[11:21:10] <lloy0076> I have cryptographically securely tied shoelaces :(
[11:21:59] <Corpuscule> nice job :)
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[11:25:02] <sickness> lol
[11:25:27] <sickness> so no one knows if this heads up will conflict with frkit?
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[11:26:32] <lloy0076> Tails it doesn't.
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[11:30:53] <quasi> sickness: it is usually lagging a bit, but that's why you want the x86 supported devices list
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[11:31:25] <quasi> sickness: http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/driverlist.html
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[11:36:58] <catena> what makes an email appear like a spam
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[11:40:44] <sickness> quasi: tnx
[11:41:17] <Corpuscule_> catena: depends on your messaging client & server
[11:42:37] <catena> so its different rules for gmail, yahoo, hotmail etc.?
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[12:00:18] <CIA-26> vp157776: PSARC/2007/399 inetd backlog SMF property: connection_backlog, 6303365 Need tunable to adjust /usr/lib/inet/inetd backlog queue
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[12:21:26] <WickedWicky> katjing!
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[12:29:43] <Gekkko> hey!
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[13:00:53] <CIA-26> jj209869: 6525509 MOD2() and TIMEOUT() macros are missing parens
[13:02:10] <Gekkko> hmm
[13:02:11] <Gekkko> ?
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[13:05:31] <JWheeler> that's a bot
[13:05:37] <Gekkko> I know CIA-26 is a bot
[13:05:58] <Gekkko> but is it reporting the CVS/SVN or whatever... OpenGrok?
[13:07:08] <JWheeler> I'm not sure where it's sourced tbh
[13:07:21] <JWheeler> most of the time I have no idea what it's talking about anyway :)
[13:07:44] <flyingparchment> Gekkko: the onnv-gate mercurial repository, i think
[13:08:29] <Gekkko> is OpenSolaris both a kernel and an operatin system?
[13:08:36] <Gekkko> operating*
[13:08:41] <Gekkko> this is my understanding
[13:09:07] <flyingparchment> it is the source code for various parts of solaris (most of ON (the kernel and basic userland)), JDS, X, etc
[13:09:25] <Teknomancer> what does JDS stand for ?
[13:09:30] <Teknomancer> Java something i guess ;)
[13:09:33] <Teknomancer> and CBE ?
[13:09:34] <flyingparchment> java desktop system
[13:09:41] <Teknomancer> ah
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[13:25:22] <Gekkko> Teknomancer: CDE you mean
[13:25:26] <Gekkko> Common Desktop Environment
[13:25:29] <flyingparchment> no, he means CBE
[13:25:35] <flyingparchment> it's the build stuff for CDE
[13:25:39] <Gekkko> oh
[13:25:50] <Gekkko> Common Build Environment?
[13:26:22] <flyingparchment> probably something like that
[13:27:49] <sickness> scary
[13:27:57] <Gekkko> I'm not sure if I could take changing from Linux to Solaris
[13:28:06] <Cyrille> CBE is not "the build stuff for CDE" it's the build stuff for the whole thing.
[13:28:11] <Gekkko> and I don't know why >_>
[13:28:14] <flyingparchment> why did i say CDE?
[13:28:18] <flyingparchment> i meant JDS
[13:28:25] <Gekkko> JDS is written in Java right?
[13:28:28] <Cyrille> no
[13:28:30] <flyingparchment> no, JDS is GNOME
[13:28:35] <flyingparchment> with some extra pretty
[13:29:01] <Gekkko> so it's just called JDS for no reason
[13:29:02] <Gekkko> excellent.
[13:29:07] <Corpuscule> that's Sun :)
[13:29:12] <Gekkko> does Java run better on Solaris than everything else?
[13:29:21] <flyingparchment> actually it does include "java media player" or something like that
[13:29:26] <Cyrille> It was named at a time when there was a trend in Javaifying the names of everything.
[13:29:34] <Gekkko> so very misleading
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[13:30:03] <Cyrille> so we had the Java Enterprise System (including most server style apps, some of which had some connection to Java, some of which didn't) and the Java Desktop System.
[13:30:17] <Gekkko> so can I still use KDE on Solaris?
[13:30:23] <Gekkko> not that I want to
[13:30:26] <Gekkko> I just like KDevelop.
[13:30:27] <flyingparchment> no, using KDE on solaris is illegal!!
[13:30:38] <Gekkko> really?
[13:30:43] <flyingparchment> no, not really.
[13:30:44] <Gekkko> illegal ethically?
[13:30:52] <Gekkko> I hate KDE with a passion
[13:30:57] <Gekkko> but I like KDevelop
[13:31:10] <Gekkko> is there a good C/C++ IDE on Solaris?
[13:31:20] <quasi> Gekkko: sun studio
[13:31:23] <flyingparchment> i never found such a thing on any platform, so i guess it depends on your taste
[13:31:30] <Gekkko> and is there gcc on Solaris?
[13:31:31] <flyingparchment> isn't studio just netbeans?
[13:31:32] <quasi> Gekkko: has one built on netbeans
[13:31:35] <flyingparchment> yes, there is gcc
[13:31:37] <Gekkko> basically the only two things that sells me :)
[13:31:42] <Gekkko> oh good :)
[13:31:48] <Gekkko> gcc isn't default compiler though is it
[13:31:51] <quasi> Gekkko: yes, but sun studio makes better bins
[13:31:52] <flyingparchment> but don't tell anyone here you use gcc or they'll whine at you
[13:31:55] <flyingparchment> (like that)
[13:32:09] <Gekkko> quasi: probably
[13:32:22] <Gekkko> my head hurts :P
[13:32:36] <Gekkko> my Solaris and OpenSolaris DVDs come in 2-4 weeks
[13:32:41] <flyingparchment> heh
[13:32:50] <flyingparchment> you could download it on dialup faster than that
[13:32:57] <quasi> Gekkko: http://developers.sun.com/sunstudio/
[13:33:06] <Gekkko> flyingparchment: I'm on Australian internet
[13:33:09] <quasi> Gekkko: you could just download it
[13:33:10] <Gekkko> so no, I couldn't
[13:33:10] <Gekkko> :P
[13:33:50] <Cyrille> does Australian internet somehow manage to be slower than dialup?
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[13:33:52] <Gekkko> jesus I hate Linux >_>
[13:33:55] <quasi> bloody aussies, always complaining about their lousy internet ... ;)
[13:33:56] <Gekkko> Cyrille: yes :P
[13:33:57] <flyingparchment> Cyrille: from what i hear, yes
[13:34:11] <Cyrille> how exactly is that interesting feat achieved?
[13:34:17] <Gekkko> 20kb/s on ADSL, which has a habit of dying for no apparant reason
[13:34:25] <flyingparchment> i almost get the free ubuntu cd but then i saw the delivery time was like 3 months
[13:34:26] <Gekkko> random corrupted packets just for shits and giggles.
[13:34:27] <flyingparchment> what's the point
[13:34:43] <Gekkko> flyingparchment: because it's then vintage
[13:34:46] <Gekkko> it's a collectable :P
[13:34:52] <flyingparchment> i knew someone who used a US satellite internet provider.. they provided a special IP driver for Windows that ignored checksums
[13:35:01] <flyingparchment> because they couldn't deliver intact packets
[13:35:10] <Gekkko> lol
[13:35:11] <quasi> Cyrille: it is the nigerians that are scared that a bunch of convict desendants like the aussies would cut into their 411 scams if they had decent ip ;)
[13:35:29] <kszwed> speaking of 411 scams, i got one sent through by mail today.
[13:35:35] <Gekkko> quasi: do you know how many Australians are infact decendents of convicts?
[13:35:37] <kszwed> not email, but post mail :(
[13:35:44] <Gekkko> less than 50,000.
[13:36:02] <Gekkko> I'm a Dutch/German hybrid myself.
[13:36:09] <Teknomancer> (17:03:03) flyingparchment: but don't tell anyone here you use gcc or they'll whine at you <--- LOL
[13:36:14] <quasi> Gekkko: 50k people more doing 411spamming would hurt too ;)
[13:36:19] <Teknomancer> yes i meant to ask CBE
[13:36:52] <Cyrille> "Hi my naem is Bruce Kangaroo, and my fatehr died in a accident and left me wiht AUD1204957340548304 (approx TEN US DOLLARS) and if yuo give me your bank number and PIN I will sahre teh monies with you"?
[13:37:05] <Gekkko> quasi: wouldn't convict descendents be lazy bastards?
[13:37:07] <Gekkko> I say yes.
[13:37:17] <kszwed> Cyrille, yeah, something like that.
[13:38:15] <Gekkko> jesus I hate Linux
[13:38:22] <Gekkko> I deleted 12MB and now I have 0MB free?
[13:38:25] <Gekkko> please explain.
[13:38:53] <dlg> sync sync sync
[13:38:56] <quasi> Gekkko: because you deleted a file that was open most likely
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[13:39:26] <Gekkko> quasi: I didn't actually :-/
[13:39:43] <Gekkko> time for a fsck again >_>!!
[13:39:44] <Gekkko> FSCK.
[13:40:11] <oxygene> Gekkko: maybe you're inside the root reservation already?
[13:40:12] <delewis> do you think Linux actually flushes the cache when there's a sync(2)? :-)
[13:40:25] <delewis> be honest, its Linux.
[13:40:26] <oxygene> Gekkko: in that case, there's space free on disk, but it's not shown
[13:40:41] <Gekkko> I am root >_>
[13:40:47] <Gekkko> there's zilch
[13:41:12] <quasi> someone else stole the space while you weren't looking
[13:41:28] <Gekkko> I'm the only user
[13:41:29] <Gekkko> lol
[13:41:40] <flyingparchment> Gekkko: try ZFS, where trying to remove a file can give a 'no space left on device' error
[13:41:51] <Gekkko> flyingparchment: I get that on Linux too
[13:41:55] <Gekkko> it's not exactly a ZFS thing
[13:42:15] <Teknomancer> i've had ZFS report incorrect space when i made copies of a moderate sized folder... was odd.
[13:42:31] <Gekkko> so ZFS is still beta?
[13:42:46] <Teknomancer> not sure about the official status, but its usable
[13:43:17] <Gekkko> hmm
[13:43:24] <Gekkko> I need to know the inside and outside of CDDL
[13:43:32] <asyd> zfs is no in beta anymore since it is inclueded in solaris
[13:43:35] <Gekkko> I believe it's more restrictive than GPL?
[13:44:03] <asyd> Gekkko: !?
[13:44:06] <asyd> are you crazy :p
[13:44:11] <trygvis> no, it's not. it is basically the same as MIT
[13:44:22] * dlg cough
[13:44:36] <Gekkko> asyd: I seem crazy
[13:44:40] <Gekkko> I feel crazy.
[13:44:43] <Gekkko> Therefore I am.
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[13:45:37] <delewis> if OSS projects actually understood the CDDL, it'd be a fairly popular license.
[13:45:58] <soulie> hello all
[13:45:59] <delewis> the nice thing about it is the its a file-based, rather than project-based license. So integrating code that's under a license is much easier if you're using the CDDL.
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[13:46:31] <delewis> even moreso, you have patent indemnification.
[13:46:40] <Teknomancer> hmm
[13:46:53] <Teknomancer> i wish they'd expand CDDL in the headers
[13:46:56] <Teknomancer> :P
[13:47:02] <Teknomancer> what does it stand for ?
[13:47:11] <Gekkko> Common Development and DESTRUCTION Licence
[13:47:12] <Gekkko> ;-)
[13:47:27] <Gekkko> Common Development and Distribution License
[13:47:35] <Teknomancer> thx
[13:48:00] <Gekkko> oh
[13:48:01] <soulie> yesterday i used crle -c ld.config <path to wxwidgets librarys> , this resulted in total chaos :P , is that because it removed the default linking ??
[13:48:07] <Gekkko> and can't CDDL be used for proprietary products?
[13:48:16] <delewis> its also merely a source license. What one does with binaries does not fall under the CDDL. Of course, you can take a similar interpretation of the GPL if you ignore the FSF GPL FAQ (which is mostly a pile of bullshit anyway)
[13:48:36] <delewis> define proprietary "products"
[13:48:48] <Gekkko> Windows.
[13:48:56] <asyd> "lol"
[13:49:00] <delewis> sorry, but you're not making a lot of sense.
[13:49:01] <Gekkko> with I should say
[13:49:02] <Gekkko> not for.
[13:49:09] <Gekkko> linked to?
[13:49:20] <Teknomancer> hehe
[13:49:21] <delewis> GPL can, as well.
[13:49:26] <Gekkko> like GPL'd code can't just become closed source
[13:49:30] <delewis> I fail to see your distinction.
[13:49:32] <Gekkko> it's derivatives must be GPL
[13:49:33] <delewis> sure it can.
[13:49:39] <delewis> the GPL does not mention the term "linking"
[13:49:44] <delewis> its a source-based license like the GPL.
[13:49:51] <Teknomancer> GPL can become closed but the code once released as OSS GPL , will remain so i think
[13:50:11] <Gekkko> I mean only the author can make it closed source I believe
[13:50:17] <Gekkko> if you derive from the code you must release under GPL
[13:50:20] <asyd> only the owner of the source can change GPL to other licences
[13:50:28] <delewis> any "non-free" project could take code licensed under the GPL compile it, and link it with it whatever. As long as they distribute the sources separately.
[13:50:37] <purserj> and then it only affects the versions of the software not licensed as GPL
[13:50:40] <delewis> Gekkko, get this through your head.
[13:50:48] <delewis> the GPL does *not* mention the term "linking"
[13:50:51] <delewis> its a source-based license.
[13:50:58] <delewis> what one does with binaries is *not* covered by the license.
[13:51:08] <Gekkko> I realise that.
[13:51:36] <Gekkko> And I realise I'm not making misunderstood, sorry
[13:51:43] <purserj> umm distribution of binaries is covered, in that source code must be provided either along with the binaries or upon request
[13:52:27] <delewis> purserj, sure but conditions regarding binaries are not (like the misconception re: linking conditions)
[13:52:49] <HarryR> delewis, so if there's no restriction on linking against the GPL, why was the LGPL made?
[13:52:59] <purserj> delewis: yup
[13:53:18] <delewis> any lawyer worth the air he breathes could prove in court the term "the work or program" is at best ambiguous and that the term "linking" is not mentioned in the text of the GPL, and thus, does not cover linking conditions.
[13:53:37] <delewis> HarryR, because the FSF is filled with morons.
[13:53:44] <HarryR> ehe
[13:53:47] <delewis> and moreso, the bulk of the people that use the GPL are morons, as well.
[13:54:10] <HarryR> yah, I get annoyed on a regular basis with people not understanding the needs of other people when licensing their source code
[13:54:29] <Teknomancer> closed source ftw then :P
[13:54:45] <delewis> a ZFS implemention in Linux would be very much possible *if* people would get their heads out of their asses and stop mis-interpreting the GPL.
[13:54:48] <HarryR> so I just go with the MIT license for everything I do :\
[13:54:59] <sickness> will the heads up on solaris support for athlon64 frequency management in snv70 conflict with frkit? do you advice to remove frkit before liveupgrading from snv69 to snv70?
[13:55:08] <delewis> the only requirement is that ZFS sources (kernel and userland) would need to be distributed separately from the Linux kernel sources.
[13:55:19] <delewis> now, binaries *could* be distributed together, just not sources.
[13:55:28] <delewis> making distributions possible that do have ZFS.
[13:56:01] <Gekkko> hmm
[13:56:03] <Teknomancer> linux supporting zfs is good, but how about open solaris including reiser support
[13:56:11] <Gekkko> Reiser is shit
[13:56:13] <tsoome> why it should?
[13:56:15] * dlg snicker
[13:56:20] <hile_> why the hell would we want to inclue Reiser
[13:56:26] <Teknomancer> its not bad
[13:56:28] <delewis> Teknomancer, the fact of the matter is (and I'll put it bluntly) is that ON has quality standards.
[13:56:35] <delewis> Reiser isn't quality, and thus, won't be integrated.
[13:56:47] <Teknomancer> heh
[13:57:05] <Gekkko> XFS is pretty good in my opinion
[13:57:08] <delewis> that's also why filesystem support in ON will remain at best minimal.
[13:57:25] <delewis> most of the filesystems in Linux aren't worth a dime.
[13:57:26] <hile_> Over XFS, I'd take JFS2
[13:57:35] <tsoome> well, you can always make your own reiser port:P
[13:57:44] <hile_> but of the ones listed, I'd take XFS over even ext*
[13:57:52] <Gekkko> XFS has better support for many small files and JFS is better for large files though isn't it?
[13:58:10] * delewis loves how Linux people use "JFS" ambiguously
[13:58:22] <delewis> there's JFS/JFS2 and OS/2 JFS, which is what Linux basically has.
[13:58:45] <Gekkko> I see.
[13:58:58] <Gekkko> then what's the advantage of JFS2 over XFS?
[13:59:05] <Teknomancer> what is OpenSolaris' target? Servers right ?
[13:59:15] <HarryR> Teknomancer, yah...
[13:59:17] <delewis> Teknomancer, works fine on my laptop.
[13:59:22] <delewis> works fine on my workstation.
[13:59:34] <Gekkko> how goes Wine on Solaris?
[13:59:47] * HarryR straps a VAX microcomputer to his arm... Look a VAX wristwatch
[13:59:54] <Teknomancer> delewis:  i'm running it on a laptop too
[13:59:56] <hile_> works fine on mine also if I would let it, but I use prod code only
[13:59:57] <HarryR> just because it runs doesn't mean it's suited ;)
[14:00:02] <Teknomancer> which is why i asked that question
[14:00:04] <sickness> heh, we'd really need wine+direct3d support, or even cedega, for games :P
[14:00:09] <Teknomancer> HarryR:  exactly
[14:00:17] <Gekkko> sickness: so it has neither?
[14:00:20] <Gekkko> not nice. :P
[14:00:27] <sickness> it has wine
[14:00:29] <Gekkko> any good bittorrent clients for Solaris?
[14:00:34] <Gekkko> besides rtorrent
[14:00:37] <tsoome> Teknomancer: OpenSolaris is Solaris beta. therefore it's best suited for testing.
[14:00:39] <sickness> don't know about cedega, but I think it would be portable...
[14:00:40] <delewis> I should mention that my laptop is a Tadpole, but I've run it on x86 laptops, as well.
[14:00:57] <HarryR> ah right delewis
[14:01:00] <Teknomancer> tsoome: Solaris 11 is the next version?
[14:01:10] <axisys> Teknomancer: sol 10 u4
[14:01:16] <Teknomancer> ah ok
[14:01:27] <axisys> Teknomancer: should be in aug
[14:01:45] <ofu> yes, sure
[14:01:52] <axisys> ofu: heh
[14:02:21] <ofu> will sol10u4 really be out in august?
[14:02:43] <HarryR> delewis, what sort of pricerange would I be looking at? Can't see anything about the sparcbook pricing on their website :(
[14:02:54] <axisys> its funny watching the FS flare.. no one explained why reiser is bad.. looking for some intelligent answers .. not just because I said so
[14:03:06] <delewis> they sell to the government. They have to do quotes.
[14:03:33] <delewis> SPARCLE runs around $3,000 base. My SPARCbook 6500 config. was roughly $25,000 or so.
[14:03:39] <HarryR> pfff
[14:03:52] * HarryR spits coffee everywhere
[14:04:03] <Gekkko> axisys: can cause CPU spikes on heavy usage
[14:04:08] <Gekkko> not very efficient
[14:04:11] <delewis> you try finding a 64-bit laptop /w 2x60GB disks and 4GB of memory in 2001. :-)
[14:04:14] <Gekkko> can't use chattr.
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[14:04:37] <HarryR> Gekkko, uh, yeah you can
[14:04:54] <Gekkko> really?
[14:05:03] <Gekkko> once again I've been misinformed >_>
[14:05:18] <axisys> Gekkko: spike is because of the journaling? or some inherent fs algorithm
[14:05:41] <Gekkko> axisys: not sure, just going by what I've heard from many sources.
[14:05:57] <Teknomancer> Gekkko i thought you were with your immediate remark on "reiser is shit"
[14:05:58] <Teknomancer> :P
[14:06:17] <Gekkko> yeah, well, :-P you
[14:06:27] <axisys> hmm.. anyone knows why they dont like reiser.. again looking for some intelligent answers please
[14:06:33] * quasi liked jfs on linux - "you have corrupted files on your drive.... fixing... no more corrupt files (and no files at all)"
[14:06:34] <Teknomancer> there's been bitching about pretty much every new FS
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[14:07:27] <axisys> its cool.. i will just go to google/wikipedia for answers.. assuming I get some credible answers :-)
[14:07:33] <Gekkko> that's one thing i don't like about reiser
[14:07:46] <Gekkko> if it tries to repair corruption, chances are it will corrupt more >_>
[14:07:47] <StylusEater> axisys: from what I've read it's because Hans isn't very nice to people who critique his work... not sure if it's really technical objection versus socio-political
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[14:07:58] <Gekkko> especially if you resize the partition
[14:08:01] <Gekkko> it doesn't like that much.
[14:08:21] <Gekkko> StylusEater: he's just pretending, while you aren't looking he'll kill you like his late wife
[14:08:22] <axisys> Gekkko: grow or shrink?
[14:08:25] <Gekkko> girlfriend or wife?
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[14:08:33] <StylusEater> wife
[14:08:34] <soulie> anyone know crle good :)?
[14:08:38] <Gekkko> axisys: I can't remember which i did, I shrunk I think
[14:08:43] <HarryR> Gekkko, have they found her yet?
[14:08:46] <Gekkko> I've changed my parts so much...
[14:08:49] <Gekkko> HarryR: don't think so.
[14:08:50] <StylusEater> HarryR: no
[14:08:56] <HarryR> then innocent until proven guilty
[14:09:14] <StylusEater> bah... he doesn't have that much money.  He's guilty until proven innocent.
[14:09:17] <HarryR> no body = circumstantial evidence
[14:09:21] <tsoome> soulie: forget about crle, its not meant to be used
[14:09:30] <HarryR> oh yeah I forgot, he's being tried & convicted in the USA
[14:09:34] <HarryR> poor guy :(
[14:09:37] <StylusEater> yup
[14:10:10] <Gekkko> lol
[14:10:20] <HarryR> hrm I need some ammo to help persuade the company I work for to try solaris
[14:10:21] <Gekkko> he might sign a deal with the Al Qaeda
[14:10:22] <Gekkko> >_>
[14:10:32] <Gekkko> then he'll start spelling America with a K
[14:10:38] <Gekkko> wait... he's Deutsch.
[14:10:43] <Gekkko> he already does :P
[14:10:56] <StylusEater> HarryR: I think it still requires 756mb of ram for the installer... :-/
[14:11:20] <HarryR> nah, I've installed 10 on pleanty of machines with only 256mb
[14:11:35] <StylusEater> devexpress?
[14:11:51] <HarryR> nah, Solaris 10 standard (closed source)
[14:11:54] <Teknomancer> devexpress install can kill you :)
[14:11:57] <soulie> but when installing wxwidgets it requires , the install ask to load/modify ld.config?
[14:12:00] <Teknomancer> man it took a while
[14:12:11] <soulie> so i assumed adding the wxlibs with crle
[14:12:20] <Gekkko> :O
[14:12:25] <Gekkko> Sun Studio for Linux?
[14:12:28] <tsoome> use LD_LIBRARY_PATH if really needed
[14:12:31] <Gekkko> Heresy is afoot!
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[14:12:38] <HarryR> Teknomancer, why would I be using opensolaris anyway?
[14:12:42] *** nemesis has joined #opensolaris
[14:12:59] <HarryR> on a production machine that is anyway
[14:13:02] <Gekkko> hmm, which is better for a workstation, OpenSolaris or Solaris?
[14:13:03] <lloy0076> Anyone here own a hardeback copy of Solaris Performance Tools, 2nd Edition (it's slimmer than its companion Solaris Internals, 2nd Edition)?
[14:13:04] <Gekkko> or Nexenta?
[14:13:12] <Teknomancer> HarryR:  who knows what goes install your head :P
[14:13:20] <Peanut_> Sure, lloy, but it's at home.
[14:13:26] <lloy0076> If so, has anyone noticed if the paper used to print it is especially moisture absorbing?
[14:13:27] <tsoome> Gekkko: MacOS X :P
[14:13:35] <HarryR> Gekkko, FreeVMS
[14:13:45] <Peanut_> No, but then I don't spill coffee on it ;-)
[14:13:50] <Gekkko> >_>
[14:13:57] <Gekkko> stop jerking with my foot.
[14:14:10] <lloy0076> Mine's been sitting in my kitchen for a while and the paper just feels...moist and the two front pages had started to kind of stick together.
[14:14:12] <tsoome> .oO Vista:P
[14:14:19] <Gekkko> >_>
[14:14:23] <Gekkko> I hate MacOS X
[14:14:33] <StylusEater> wuh? vista? osX?
[14:14:34] <Gekkko> I hate Windows more than I hate ...
[14:14:37] <StylusEater> I thought we were in #opensolaris?
[14:14:38] <Gekkko> everything else.
[14:14:51] <Gekkko> aren't you meant to advocate OpenSolaris or Solaris here?
[14:14:51] <Gekkko> >_>!
[14:15:07] <lloy0076> Yeppers, definitely moisture.
[14:15:08] * lloy0076 sigh
[14:15:57] <tsoome> well, you cant just ask what I should use on my WS - if you still do, the vista/macos is probably best for you, since you obviously dont know waht you need.
[14:16:07] <Gekkko> holy shit Sun Studio is 1GB LOL
[14:16:10] <Gekkko> that's a giant suite thar.
[14:17:02] <Gekkko> tsoome: so how am I meant to learn if you just send new people away?
[14:17:08] <Gekkko> that's the attitude that causes an OS to die >_>
[14:17:58] <tsoome> only modern desktop unix is macos - good looking, with decent amount of sw and hw support
[14:18:05] <tsoome> but
[14:18:31] <HarryR> but.. OSX isn't unix!
[14:18:32] <tsoome> if you need to support your solaris servers, get ideas whats going on on development - then install opensolaris
[14:18:41] <tsoome> it is very unix
[14:18:45] <tsoome> bsd
[14:18:59] <HarryR> 20 years ago..
[14:19:00] <quasi> Gekkko: studio has many nice tools along with the cc - http://developers.sun.com/sunstudio/articles/perftools.html for a couple
[14:19:08] <tsoome> it still is
[14:19:33] <tsoome> it has all I need - terminals, built in ssh, unix tools etc
[14:19:48] <JWheeler> Anyone familiar with Makefile syntax in here. Can I use a conditional statement, within a target? I can't see to get it to work
[14:19:49] <Gekkko> quasi: I noticed ;-)
[14:20:24] <HarryR> JWheeler, if [ condition ]; then commands && commands && commends; fi
[14:20:46] <Gekkko> well I'd gladly read an article comparing Solaris to OpenSolaris if anyone has one
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[14:21:22] <tsoome> What you like to read from such an article?
[14:21:48] <Gekkko> I'm not exactly sure.
[14:21:53] <Gekkko> primary differences
[14:22:03] <Gekkko> I'm hesitant to ask in here incase I get flamed :P
[14:22:04] <tsoome> given that opensolaris is development version of solaris - all new features will appear in osol first;)
[14:22:25] <tsoome> making it more feature rich, but also more fragile
[14:23:13] <JWheeler> HarryR, it seems to be more like ifeq (A,B) command else command endif
[14:23:33] <Teknomancer> endif?
[14:23:40] <JWheeler> yeah
[14:23:44] <HarryR> JWheeler, oh, conditionals at the Makefile level and not just at the shell level?
[14:24:06] <Gekkko> tsoome: fragile as in instable if you push it the wrong way?
[14:24:07] <JWheeler> yeah, the makefile itself. I'm trying to do something that they probably weren't meant to do :)
[14:24:38] <tsoome> no, as code is new, many bugs can appear, it may not even install if you are out of luck
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[14:25:07] <tsoome> as always with fresh code
[14:25:16] <Gekkko> so it's not for the faint-hearted
[14:25:17] <Gekkko> ;-)
[14:25:23] <quasi> Gekkko: http://opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/ lets you follow what is new in opensolaris
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[14:25:35] <Gekkko> that's basically the only difference? the new code?
[14:25:59] <asyd> btw, I notice the pfil interface disappears from opensolaris head
[14:26:04] <tsoome> well, again, its development snapshot if you like this way
[14:26:09] <asyd> that's sux a bit to port pf :p
[14:26:10] * lloy0076 wonders what nincompoop decided to bind this book together with water soluble glue
[14:26:41] <Gekkko> tsoome: sounds pretty cool to me :-)
[14:26:50] <tsoome> it can be, ofc
[14:26:58] <Gekkko> Containers are what really made me look into OpenSolaris
[14:27:16] <tsoome> depends on your reasoning or what you like to get
[14:27:25] <soulie> me confused people advise not to use crle , and also not to use LD_LIBRARY_PATH so is there a magic 3 solutions?
[14:27:51] <asyd> hard link in your binaries :p
[14:28:07] <tsoome> soulie: you can use LD_LIBRARY_PATH, but, the best way to use it is to use it in wrapper scripts
[14:28:08] <quasi> soulie: -R when you compile
[14:28:27] <soulie> ;o for wxwidgets?
[14:28:31] <tsoome> global LD_LIBRARY_PATH can be as disasterous as crle (ok, its little less, but still)
[14:28:45] <Gekkko> tsoome: I just want it to try out Solaris as a student :)
[14:29:03] <Gekkko> use it as a workstation
[14:29:45] <tsoome> to get experienced with new technology, develop something etc, its just fine
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[14:30:42] <Gekkko> tsoome: yay :)
[14:30:49] <Gekkko> and you can use ZFS as the root filesystem?
[14:30:55] <HarryR> yup
[14:30:59] <Gekkko> excellent.
[14:31:03] <Gekkko> I read about ZFS in 2005
[14:31:13] <Gekkko> I was salivating :P
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[14:33:01] <Gekkko> gay?
[14:33:06] <Gekkko> good that bot is gone.
[14:33:37] <Gekkko> wait a minute, what IRC clients are available on Solaris?
[14:33:50] <HarryR> irssi?
[14:33:58] <Gekkko> I know that
[14:33:58] <quasi> HarryR: yep
[14:34:08] <Gekkko> that's it?
[14:34:29] <Gekkko> hmm seems there is KDE on Solaris
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[14:35:39] <HarryR> ewww
[14:36:04] <Gekkko> I only want QT
[14:36:11] <Gekkko> not even KDE i just remembered >_<
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[14:36:51] <oxygene> Qt is no problem
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[14:38:33] <Gekkko> Excellent
[14:38:36] <Gekkko> lol @ KDE4 on Windows
[14:38:43] <Gekkko> that should be one hell of an experiment
[14:39:12] <oxygene> like "unix on the desktop"?
[14:39:18] <Teknomancer> Gekkko i'm using Gaim on opensolaris atm
[14:39:25] <HarryR> if it can be ported to Windows without much trouble, it can only make the software better (as in more robust)
[14:39:27] <Teknomancer> is there QT libs for opensolaris? which version ?
[14:39:30] <Gekkko> they didn't update to Pidgin?
[14:39:39] <jmcp> Gekkko: steleman is Da Man(tm) for KDE on Solaris, iirc
[14:39:46] <Teknomancer> i don't know, i couldn't find Pidgin for opensolaris
[14:39:58] <Teknomancer> but i heard there's a version
[14:39:58] <Gekkko> I'm not too fond of the ol' GAIM.
[14:40:09] <jmcp> Teknix: integrated into snv_70, I think
[14:41:21] <Gekkko> http://blogs.sun.com/chrisg/date/20070723
[14:41:26] <Gekkko> SVN 68
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[14:44:00] <Gekkko> where can I see usage statistics for operating systems?
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[14:51:58] <st3fan> argh. dev edition keeps configuring my interface through dhcp.
[14:52:11] <st3fan> even though i have no dhcp.ifacename
[14:52:23] <st3fan> did something change in that area recently?
[14:52:36] <st3fan> this is snv_64a
[14:53:02] <Gekkko> hmm
[14:53:07] <Gekkko> is there geany on Solaris?
[14:53:18] <jmcp> st3fan: if you chose the Developer Express installation, then the dhcp stuff is by design
[14:53:25] <st3fan> hm
[14:53:28] <jmcp> try turning off nwam
[14:53:32] <st3fan> nwam?
[14:53:33] <st3fan> ok
[14:53:42] <jmcp> and run a "sys-unconfig" so that you can reconfigure your system to use a static ip
[14:53:47] <jmcp> and give it a hostname :)
[14:53:54] <jmcp> nwam == NetWork AutoMagic
[14:53:59] <st3fan> ahhhh
[14:54:25] <st3fan> svcadm disable nwam is enough right?
[14:55:12] <st3fan> jmcp, thank you so much for that hint, this caused me headaches :)
[14:55:17] <jmcp> you're welcome
[14:55:19] <st3fan> gave me
[14:55:22] <jmcp> it caused me a heap of pain too
[14:55:39] <st3fan> dhcp was turned on every time i killed it .. like MAGIC
[14:55:57] <jmcp> that'll be the SMF automatic restart feature
[14:56:26] <st3fan> no i mean i thought i disabled it correctly but then it would be turned back on at the next reboot
[14:56:32] <jmcp> yeah
[14:56:33] <jmcp> I know
[14:56:38] <jmcp> that's the automatic restart thing
[14:56:42] <jmcp> part of it, at any rate
[14:57:11] <jmcp> if you want to temporarily disable a service, eg cde-login, run    svcadm disable -t cde-login
[14:57:17] <jmcp> that'll disable until the next reboot
[14:57:21] <jmcp> man svcadm
[14:57:40] <st3fan> got it
[14:57:57] <st3fan> just rebooted .. it is asking me for network info again .. good :)
[14:58:09] <jmcp> don't tell it that you want to use dhcp :-)
[14:58:59] <st3fan> indeed :-)
[14:59:07] <st3fan> i must have setup this machine at home, lazy
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[15:01:42] <jmcp> ok, sleeptime
[15:01:43] <jmcp> gnite
[15:01:54] <st3fan> thanks :
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[15:06:10] <st3fan> what is the opensolaris equivlent of linux's /proc/cpuinfo
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[15:06:47] <Gekkko> st3fan: I have a good pdf for you to read
[15:06:50] <Gekkko> that someone sent me yesterday
[15:06:53] <Gekkko> let me just get the link
[15:06:59] <st3fan> sounds good :-)
[15:07:07] <st3fan> 'solaris for linux n00bs' ? :-)
[15:07:08] <Gekkko> its Linux to Solaris Admin Guide
[15:07:11] <Gekkko> yes
[15:07:13] <st3fan> ah cool
[15:07:26] <st3fan> i'm really not an admin but i like to know my way around solaris
[15:07:37] <Gekkko> oh noes
[15:07:45] <Gekkko> my scrollbuffer doesn't go that far
[15:07:45] <Gekkko> lol
[15:07:58] <BatonT> st3fan: what about   psrinfo -v
[15:07:59] <st3fan> http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/sysadmin_guide.pdf :-)
[15:08:00] <Gekkko> ill find the link
[15:08:03] <BatonT> not as much info though
[15:08:03] <Gekkko> that one
[15:08:03] <Gekkko> >_>
[15:08:14] <Gekkko> st3fan: google knew?
[15:08:17] <st3fan> yup
[15:08:21] <st3fan> almighty google
[15:08:26] <BatonT> i have that pdf open atm
[15:08:27] <st3fan> thanks BatonT .. that looks good :)
[15:08:38] <Gekkko> oh crap st3fan, I got the title off the top of my head XD
[15:09:30] <st3fan> The physical processor has 4 virtual processors (0-3)
[15:09:30] <st3fan>   x86 (GenuineIntel 6F7 family 6 model 15 step 7 clock 2400 MHz)
[15:09:30] <st3fan>         Intel(r) Core(tm)2 Quad CPU           @ 2.40GHz
[15:09:32] <st3fan> sweeeeeet :-)
[15:09:52] <st3fan> this machine rrrrrrrrrrrrooaaarrrrrs
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[15:10:52] <st3fan> so nice to replace three machines with one solaris box with a bunch of zones
[15:11:01] <BatonT> st3fan: hmm the output is different on mine... which ver of solaris are you running?
[15:11:20] <Gekkko> brb
[15:11:25] <st3fan> i'm in a datacenter here with like 5000 servers on this floor .. i'm sure most of them are idle .. solaris could save so much power usage
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[15:11:34] <st3fan> BatonT: The physical processor has 4 virtual processors (0-3)
[15:11:35] <st3fan>   x86 (GenuineIntel 6F7 family 6 model 15 step 7 clock 2400 MHz)
[15:11:35] <st3fan>         Intel(r) Core(tm)2 Quad CPU           @ 2.40GHz
[15:11:37] <st3fan> oops
[15:11:43] <st3fan> SunOS dev11 5.11 snv_64a i86pc i386 i86pc
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[15:12:00] <BatonT> interesting...  mine is:   SunOS tanker 5.11 snv_57 i86pc i386 i86pc
[15:12:08] <st3fan> ah little older
[15:12:08] <BatonT> havent gotten around to updating
[15:12:35] <BatonT> i have build64 in a VM should see what that reports
[15:12:47] <BatonT> BUT i cant be bothered starting it up :)
[15:12:57] <st3fan> :-)
[15:13:07] <st3fan> i'm not that crazy
[15:13:28] <timeless> SunOS swift 5.11 snv_53 i86pc i386 i86pc
[15:13:31] <timeless> much older :)
[15:14:00] <st3fan> still, very solid
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[15:14:17] <st3fan> hm i still miss stuff like screen
[15:14:20] <timeless>   5:08pm  up 98 day(s), 21:29,  26 users,  load average: 0.34, 0.66, 0.82
[15:14:31] <timeless> st3fan; you can get that from any of the free places
[15:14:35] <timeless> sunfreeware/blastwave/...
[15:14:36] <st3fan> yeah i know
[15:14:42] <st3fan> which one do you prefer?
[15:14:44] <timeless> i just ssh into a centos zone :)
[15:14:54] <timeless> ssh -t swift-centos screen -x ....
[15:15:01] <st3fan> ah :)
[15:15:21] <timeless> it gives me a clean snv on the outside and whatever messy non solarisy things in their own compartments :)
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[15:17:11] <st3fan> yeah i should keep the root clean too
[15:17:16] <st3fan> and just do that in zones
[15:18:06] <timeless> i have a couple of zones, swift-stage is snv for building packages that i could install into swift, swift-nexenta is for debian/apt work
[15:18:51] * timeless wonders if there's a timetable for adding 2.6 support for lx
[15:19:00] <flyingparchment> timeless: "never"
[15:19:10] <BatonT> flyingparchment: howcome?
[15:19:11] <flyingparchment> sun doesn't really care about lx brand as a serious product, AIUI
[15:19:19] <flyingparchment> it's pretty much staying as it is unless someone in the community wants to improve it
[15:19:25] <BatonT> ahh
[15:20:11] <BatonT> i guess now there is Xen on solaris theres less need for lx
[15:20:16] <timeless> has someone taken a survey of what's different?
[15:21:13] <cmihai> flyingparchment: oh come on, it's not like SCO has 2.6 emulation in UnixWare / OpenServer with Linux Kernel Personality, and lx is pretty much the same thing. Or FreeBSD/OpenBSD/NetBSD with Linux_Compat. They all emulate 2.4 kernels.\
[15:21:22] <cmihai> And that doesn't stop them from having SOME use.
[15:21:24] <flyingparchment> cmihai: huh?
[15:21:37] <flyingparchment> i didn't say 2.4 is no use.
[15:21:40] <Gekkko> back
[15:21:50] <flyingparchment> i said that sun isn't interested in developing lx as a product, and as a result, 2.6 is unlikely to be supported.
[15:21:53] <cmihai> Well, you did say it's not a serious product...
[15:22:03] <flyingparchment> this is the impression i got from the website and the mailing list
[15:23:13] <cmihai> flyingparchment: emulating a 2.6 kernel could prove.. complicated for very few results
[15:23:19] <flyingparchment> indeed
[15:23:24] <cmihai> Remember, it's not a real kernel.
[15:23:28] <timeless> cmihai: flying didn't really ask
[15:23:29] <flyingparchment> although some specific apis - like epoll - would be very great
[15:23:35] <timeless> the asker to the extent there is one was me
[15:23:36] <cmihai> Yeah
[15:23:40] <flyingparchment> solaris basically supports the same thing as epoll (ports) anyway
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[15:24:00] <cmihai> But it's still translating syscalls and such, so hope for supported modules and running things like VMware are still far fetched.
[15:24:42] <flyingparchment> i don't know why i said "very great" there, i don't even use lx
[15:24:44] <flyingparchment> i think that's the beer talking
[15:24:58] <cmihai> Must be :-)
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[15:25:35] <cmihai> "very great" is a superlative :P
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[15:30:36] <sickness> oh, little question, is it faster to run a ported domU like fedora, or the same fedora release but under HVM?
[15:31:08] <cmihai> Paravirtualized or not?
[15:31:15] <cmihai> Paravirtualized is actually... slower.
[15:31:18] <sickness> yeah
[15:31:19] <sickness> oh
[15:31:40] <sickness> so having the option to choose between both of them, HVM is better?
[15:31:43] <flyingparchment> what is HVM?  hardware virtualisation?
[15:32:03] <Cyrille> His Voice's Master
[15:32:05] <sickness> flyingparchment: yeah, intel and amd new extensions which are supported under Xen
[15:32:05] <Cyrille> ;-)
[15:32:13] <cmihai> VT / Pacifica
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[15:38:04] <movement> sickness: paravirt is much faster and better.
[15:38:39] <sickness> movement: well, cmihai just told me otherwise
[15:38:44] <sickness> :/
[15:40:16] <movement> I have no idea why he said that.
[15:42:28] <sickness> k
[15:42:29] <sickness> tnx
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[15:43:08] <sickness> so If one has the option to run a domU in HVM but the os was ported to xen, it is always better to use the ported os instead of HVM, right?
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[15:46:44] <flyingparchment> is there a way to enable pfil on an interface without rebooting?
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[15:49:42] <flyingparchment> ah, unplumb
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[16:20:58] <cmihai> delewis, pole
[16:21:03] <cmihai> erm poke
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[16:27:00] <sickness> cmihai: why did you say that paravirtualized is actually slower?
[16:27:21] <sickness> I'm a little confused, others told me that paravirtualized is always faster than same os but under HVM
[16:27:48] <Gekkko[PDA]> damn utf8 chars are breaking my shell >.>
[16:27:57] <Gekkko[PDA]> damn unicode.
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[16:28:12] <sickness> 7bit ought to be enough :P
[16:29:04] <Gekkko[PDA]> 128-bit >_>
[16:29:31] <HarryR> 256bit unicode characters :\
[16:29:36] <sickness> lol
[16:30:25] <curlyman> b3IganVzdCB1c2UgQmFzZTY0
[16:30:44] <oxygene> sickness: currently paravirtualisation is probably faster, but only because the virtualisation features in the CPUs suck so much in their current form
[16:31:18] <sickness> oh, tnx
[16:31:23] <Auralis> utf-32 :)
[16:31:36] <Cyrille> 64k should be enough for everyone.
[16:31:39] <Cyrille> utf-64k
[16:32:06] <Gekkko[PDA]> utf-10^100
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[16:35:58] <Tempt> http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/07/29/1546206.shtml
[16:36:25] <Cyrille> is that the indiana one?
[16:38:43] <oxygene> Cyrille: yes
[16:38:57] <Tempt> It's another serving of fail
[16:39:21] <Tempt> Just funny to watch the slashtrolls talking about the "new player" as opposed to the "tried and tested" linux.
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[16:40:21] <Cyrille> from a quick skimming, it looked like they were all getting worked up on how solaris would become linux, despite the many statements to the contrary from Ian and others.
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[16:40:40] <Tempt> Indeed.
[16:40:45] <Tempt> It's just funny.
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[16:51:23] <oxygene> Cyrille: until there's a real concept, indiana can become anything.. just handwaving and throwing "packages" and "gnu tools" in the pool doesn't help anybody plan their strategies surround solaris, and it also doesn't help with killing the "will become linux" image
[16:51:54] <Tempt> Perhaps the whole Indiana spiel should have been kept quiet until someone had a plan?
[16:52:03] <Cyrille> where would be the fun in that?
[16:52:13] <Tempt> I love some of the comments though
[16:52:19] <quasi> Tempt: that is not the way of marketing
[16:52:38] <Tempt> Someone got scored +3 for complaining that when they logged into their fresh Solaris install, they didn't get command history when the hit the up arrow.
[16:53:09] <Cyrille> next thing you know, you're going to say they should have said "opensolaris will become the base for an actual Sun provided and regularly released distribution" rather than "will become more like Linux"...
[16:53:52] <Tempt> heh
[16:54:04] <Tempt> The comments made it worth the article.
[16:54:33] <Tempt> Still laughing at the sheer count of "GPL it! It sucks if it isn't GPL3!!"
[16:54:46] <Tempt> Sorry boys, you'll have to write your own ZFS
[16:55:29] <oxygene> or port the one in grub, add write support, add raidz support, add stripe support, make it fast, and work around the patents that aren't used in zfs-for-grub ;)
[16:57:08] <Tempt> ha.
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[16:58:21] <Tempt> Hey Gman.
[16:58:27] <Gman> hey dude
[16:58:34] <Tempt> See the slashdot link?
[16:58:42] <Tempt> [00:35] <Tempt> http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/07/29/1546206.shtml
[16:59:09] <Gman> Tempt, yeah, but probably haven't looked at the recent comments
[16:59:10] <Tempt> I got at least three lols out of the comments.
[16:59:30] <oxygene> Tempt: 3 lols, metric or imperial?
[16:59:55] <Tempt> metric, of course.
[17:00:25] <CIA-26> vp157776: 6303365 Need tunable to adjust /usr/lib/inet/inetd backlog queue (fix build)
[17:00:44] <Tempt> I can't believe how much that crowd turned around. They used to get excited when Sun released a new CPU, now they sit there spitting hate at them.
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[17:01:05] <oxygene> Tempt: niagara was an exception
[17:01:06] <Gman> "Sources inside Sun say his office whiteboard has details of the project plan."
[17:01:07] <Gman> heh
[17:01:21] <oxygene> Tempt: they used to hate sun since at least java 1.0
[17:02:00] <Tempt> I'm talking UltraSPARC release vintage really.
[17:02:34] <Tempt> They get a free OS, with source, with moves to make it easier for their tiny minds to handle and they best response is to complain?
[17:02:49] <oxygene> Tempt: fear
[17:02:52] <Cyrille> are you the source inside Sun, Glynn?
[17:03:13] <Tempt> Fuck me, if Apple open-sourced MacOS and spent a shit-tin of money on making it easier to run on my hardware and easier for me to use, I'd be saying nice things about them for weeks, and I *hate* Apple.
[17:03:34] <oxygene> Tempt: ack!
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[17:05:25] <Gman> Cyrille, don't think so, i've never seen his office either
[17:05:34] <Tempt> Actually, that'd be really cool. If Apple was to release MacOS X source, there'd be many good things for all. They'd probably use a BSD license, too, so Solaris could enjoy some of the UI stuff in the same way that MacOS is getting dtrace and zfs.
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[17:05:52] <oxygene> Tempt: apple has its own license, I think
[17:06:05] <Tempt> Wouldn't that be a marvel of open source collaboration between big companies?
[17:06:20] <PerterB> I think it's upsetting to them that while all they keep hearing is that Linux on x86 is the dogs bollocks, sun persists on being contrary and producing its own hardware and OS and not drinking the kool aid...
[17:06:25] <Tempt> MacOS with a real filesystem and dtrace, and Solaris with Aqua.
[17:06:49] <oxygene> solaris with aqua? ugh..
[17:07:11] <PerterB> or just resurrect Openstep ;)
[17:07:52] <oxygene> PerterB: http://www.cocotron.org/ - yet another rewrite of it (this time MIT licensed)
[17:08:18] <Tempt> http://www.etoile-project.org/etoile/mediawiki/index.php?title=Etoile_02_Release_Screenshots
[17:08:37] <tsoome> well at least it would be possible to get rid of damn gnome:P
[17:08:55] <Tempt> Actually, Apple could have some big wins by moving all that pretty UI onto a good, honest Solaris base.
[17:09:47] <Tempt> It'd certainly give them an OS for the server side. Heh, remember when the bigger Apple servers ran AIX?
[17:10:33] <PerterB> yup, assuming that's feasible (I think most of the GUI stuff in OSX talks direct to Mach, not the BSD layer)
[17:11:19] <Tempt> Hey, it's just an idea. A nice idea.
[17:11:43] <PerterB> agreed :)
[17:12:09] <Tempt> Anything with more Solaris is a nice idea.
[17:12:47] <oxygene> PerterB: GUI talks directly to mach? that's broken on _so_ many levels, it isn't funny
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[17:13:22] <Tempt> Not really.
[17:13:26] <Tempt> MacOS is a desktop OS.
[17:13:47] <Tempt> Anything that makes it a faster, more responsive environment is more important than making it more stable.
[17:13:55] <tsoome> broken or not brokeb, but it works and is nice to use
[17:14:16] <PerterB> oxygene: my understanding of the implementation is very limited, but I do seem to recall it using Mach ports a lot when I was debugging something
[17:14:35] <Tempt> Spend a few days using MacOS and then try to use GNOME without getting angry. This is why I live such a commandline existance.
[17:15:21] <oxygene> I get angry at gnome even without using any other desktop environment before..
[17:15:51] <PerterB> as someone else said, "zfs is one big layering violation"... sometimes that's appropriate for other systems too
[17:15:58] <Tempt> GNOME fails on so many levels as a desktop.
[17:16:11] <oxygene> PerterB: sure, but mach?
[17:16:26] <oxygene> I'm not talking about how everything should be based on unix (it shouldn't) - but mach?
[17:16:30] <oxygene> :)
[17:17:28] <PerterB> mach is the "lowest level" OS in OSX... everythign else is layered on top, including its BSD layer
[17:23:54] <tomww> I would like to build a layer on OpenSolaris, the result is what looks like indiana. so layering solves any problems :-) ....
[17:24:40] * PerterB laughs
[17:25:09] <Tempt> Can I build a layer over your Indiana layer that looks like Solaris?
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[17:26:11] <nachox> Tempt: blasphemy! had dare you turn indiana into solaris
[17:26:18] <tomww> hmm. where is the   #define MAXLAYERS  ?
[17:26:33] <Tempt> tomww: It's a 64 bit unsigned int ...
[17:26:43] <tomww> well, not too much
[17:26:52] <curlyman> Wouldn't moving MacOS to SunOS generate a speed increase with just the Micro -> Macro kernel change alone?
[17:27:16] <asyd> anyone involve in the crossbow project by chance?
[17:27:35] <asyd> to talk about the pfil interface
[17:28:00] <sickness> Tempt: lol
[17:28:37] <oxygene> curlyman: it might generate a speed increase due to moving away from mach - but that's not necessarily related to moving away from a microkernel system
[17:30:26] <Tempt> The move away from a microkernel's performance increase would be entirely different to the performance boost from ditching mach. Besides, QNX is evidence that microkernels can be speedy.
[17:30:54] <oxygene> Tempt: or L4, or most other microkernels
[17:31:01] <curlyman> oxygene: anything that will give me less spinny pinwheel time on this mac is kickass.
[17:31:13] <oxygene> mach was a nice research project, back in those days.. using mach today looks like a sick old joke by sick old men.
[17:31:42] <Tempt> Ha! Mine spends it's time showing me beachballs.
[17:31:52] <Tempt> The very same beachball that lived in NextStep
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[18:48:37] <sickness> how is the solaris kernel heap manager? O( n ) or O( 1 ) ?
[18:48:43] <sickness> (just for the sake of it)
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[18:56:36] <Triskelios> sickness: should be O(1)
[18:56:49] <nachox> sickness: it is a version of the slab allocator, i think that is O(1) www.opensolaris.org/os/community/edu/chap3.5Kernel_Memory.pdf
[18:57:44] <Triskelios> it's more or less the original slab allocator ;)
[18:58:31] <sickness> tnx!
[18:58:45] <nachox> indeed it is
[18:58:46] <Triskelios> some things like applying memory pressure might be > O(1)
[18:59:44] <nachox> also http://www.usenix.org/event/usenix01/bonwick.html
[18:59:46] <Triskelios> the bonwick paper is easy to read
[18:59:57] <HarryR> O(-inf)
[18:59:58] <nachox> Triskelios: :)
[19:01:25] <Triskelios> bonwick 94 is the original one, http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/bos94/bonwick.html
[19:01:44] <Gman> pants off.
[19:02:06] <nachox> it's cold to do that here
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[19:02:18] <Triskelios> pantsel
[19:02:24] <Triskelios> *pantsless oclock!
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[19:10:16] <carbon60> Is there role you can give a user to allow raw packet capture?
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[19:12:30] <Marv|LG> root ;)
[19:14:53] <carbon60> Marv|LG: Well yes, but I thought using RBAC for this would be nice.
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[19:18:02] <alanc> nrubsig will be so happy: Read-only Strings in C [LSARC/2007/436 FastTrack timeout 08/08/2007]
[19:18:11] <alanc> (aka: "-xstrconst on by default")
[19:18:44] <BadKarma> heh
[19:21:02] <BadKarma> Gman: cheers for the files, btw ;)
[19:21:18] <Gman> i sent you files?
[19:21:31] <BadKarma> yeah
[19:22:01] <Gman> michal?
[19:22:04] <BadKarma> yeah
[19:22:08] <Gman> awesome
[19:22:09] <BadKarma> havent had a chance to say hi before
[19:22:10] <Gman> hey :)
[19:22:12] <BadKarma> hey :)
[19:22:18] <Gman> rocking job with the planet though
[19:22:19] <Gman> very nice to see
[19:22:21] <BadKarma> how are things your way?
[19:22:27] <BadKarma> ta ;)
[19:22:37] <Gman> in menlo park this week, until wednesday
[19:22:54] <BadKarma> sounds great :)
[19:23:23] <BadKarma> just not sure what is this sidebar for? is there anything I am missing from the picture?
[19:23:46] <Gman> BadKarma, not sure either :)
[19:23:47] <BadKarma> what I do mean is... do you use it anywhere at all?
[19:23:56] <BadKarma> I see :)
[19:25:58] <BadKarma> anyway, I have to run now, ahem well.. my todo queue is sky high... see you around
[19:27:05] <Gman> later!
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[19:34:37] <WickedWicky> hey all
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[19:40:04] <RaD|Tz> how can i do a full fsck on nexenta?
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[19:41:25] <elektronkind> RaD|Tz: what do you mean "full" ?
[19:41:40] <elektronkind> like, all mounted disks on a system?
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[19:42:13] <RaD|Tz> no no, I enter my nexenta console and do a fsck -y and says that do it again but with disk unmounted
[19:42:20] <RaD|Tz> how can i do that?
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[19:58:23] <ofu> umount -f hrhr
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[20:04:52] <RaD|Tz> what does hrhr means?
[20:05:07] <WickedWicky> something something
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[20:06:56] <RaD|Tz>  /?
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[20:19:32] <gdamore>  planet.os.o busted?
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[20:33:26] <gdamore> anyone know where I can find a wireshark/etherreal installation for Nevada *other* than blastwave?
[20:33:48] <gdamore> blastwave wants to install fconfig, and from past experience, this is highly destructive to a Nevada system.
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[20:36:01] <PerterB> sunfreeware has ethereal packages although they have a few dependancies
[20:36:52] <gdamore> weird.  a bunch of websites stopped working for me.
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[20:37:27] <WickedWicky> did any of you experience heaps of performance loss under ZFS when one side of a mirror is not available?
[20:37:29] <gdamore> i think my ISP's dns is screwed.
[20:37:57] <gdamore> its going to searchnut.com..... some idjit must have used a wildcard DNS entry!
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[20:40:11] <gnut> hi all
[20:40:20] <gnut> what do I do once I change bootenv.rc for the changes to take effect?
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[20:53:07] <pizdec> gdamore, your computer is pawned ?
[20:53:14] <gdamore> weird....
[20:53:19] <pizdec> solaris?
[20:53:23] <gdamore> i'm trying to figure this out.
[20:53:24] <gdamore> yes
[20:53:31] <pizdec> nslookup and dig
[20:53:36] <gdamore> direct dns lookups are fine.  ypmatch is fine.
[20:53:37] <pizdec> are your friends
[20:53:44] <gdamore> but telnet is going somewhere else.
[20:53:52] <gdamore> nscd is killed.
[20:54:16] <gdamore> aha... figured it out.
[20:54:21] <gdamore> sumbitch.
[20:54:33] <gdamore> someone put a wildcard entry in... if I append a "." it works.
[20:54:59] <pizdec> in ... what?
[20:55:17] <gdamore> my ISP screwed with my domain name, and added a wildcard entry!  bastards.
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[20:58:50] <gdamore> i had my resolv.conf using my domain name (which is hosted elsewhere)  as its default search... but the turkeys added a wildcard A record!
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[21:00:14] <sommerfeld> wildcard A record to your domain?
[21:00:26] <gdamore> wildcard A record in my domain.
[21:00:36] <CIA-26> danmcd: 6576171 ipsec_kmc_map file processing is broken
[21:00:36] <gdamore> so somegarbagename.damore.org goes to a search page.
[21:00:37] <sommerfeld> or an evil ISP typosquatting wildcard record?
[21:00:37] <CIA-26> gww: 6583189 pam_get_user(3PAM) can leak memory, 6583588 pam_framework.c has wx nits
[21:01:00] <oasnebi> okay, so i went to http://anilgtech.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/sound-on-solaris/ and followed the instructions (which it refers to) located: http://www.tools.de/opensource/solaris/audio/beta/ . after i install the package, the system tells me i must reboot? why is this necessary? it's just a kernel module, right? why does that need a full client reboot?
[21:01:03] <gdamore> but this means that all my lookups, e.g. www.sun.com, which don't have a trailing dot, get mapped first to www.sun.com.damore.org, which all of a sudden starts resolving.
[21:01:21] <gdamore> instead of returning NXDOMAIN like it *should*
[21:01:31] <trochej> Kuuurwa
[21:01:42] <trochej> Opps
[21:01:42] <trochej> Sorry
[21:01:45] <trochej> Wrong channel
[21:01:46] <steleman> lol
[21:01:56] <steleman> some of us know what that means ;-)
[21:01:57] <dosiu> ROTFL
[21:02:28] <gdamore> oh, it looks like they "expired" my domain... not cool.
[21:02:29] <oxygene> oasnebi: it's simply the easiest way to get things done - there are likely other ways to start the driver, too
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[21:02:52] <trochej> steleman: Bad for those that know :)
[21:03:18] <steleman> trochej: are you suggesting that ignorance is bliss ? :-)
[21:03:40] <trochej> steleman: I just got annoyed at that discailmer thingy at the beginning of DVD movie
[21:03:51] <steleman> trochej: oh the FBI warning ?
[21:04:03] <steleman> "If you watch this movie you will be arrested."
[21:04:03] <trochej> I got movie with 14 languages subtiteles and, of course, disclaimer also is in 14 langiuagewr
[21:04:10] <trochej> Aaand to that you can't fast forward it
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[21:04:16] <trochej> steleman: Yes
[21:04:39] <sickness> will the heads up on solaris support for athlon64 frequency management in snv70 conflict with frkit? do you advice to remove frkit before liveupgrading from snv69 to snv70?
[21:04:39] <trochej> I'm gonna rip it just to get rid of this shit
[21:04:45] <steleman> trochej: Lenin was right. Democracy is good up to a certain point.
[21:04:53] <steleman> :-P
[21:05:08] <trochej> sickness: I'd do this just to be sure
[21:05:28] <sickness> trochej: yeah, I think that I'll follow your advice...
[21:05:43] <trochej> steleman: Lenin might be right on many things, unfortunately he and his successors were dead wrong on many other
[21:07:14] <trochej> steleman: I remember right that you are Russian?
[21:07:15] <e^ipi> like trusting stalin with any power and not naming leon trotsky as his successor publicly
[21:07:37] <trochej> e^ipi: About Stalin, e may not have a choice.
[21:07:46] <steleman> trochej: not Russian. i'm originally from Romania. had to learn Russian in junior high/high. forgot all of it.
[21:08:21] <trochej> steleman: Yeah, I had to learn it in Poland too, but only in primary. I am a bit younger that you, I suppose, I was the last year that had to learn russian
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[21:16:09] <oasnebi> oxygene: i suppose, but i thought that solaris was all against rebooting. but since i'm playing around with it for now, i guess it doesn't really matter
[21:16:18] <oasnebi> surely, there's a service i could be restarting
[21:17:47] <oxygene> oasnebi: driver installation isn't something regularily done on a server with long uptime
[21:22:07] <Gman> hahaha
[21:22:16] <Gman> stevel, you pedantic knob!
[21:22:32] <Gman> stevel, man, very funny
[21:29:20] <WickedWicky> stevel
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[21:31:10] <sickness> hi PPRO :)
[21:31:18] <PPRO> sickkkkkkk
[21:31:19] <PPRO> :)
[21:31:22] <sickness> :P
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[21:32:24] <PPRO> sick : are u registered on linkedin'
[21:32:25] <PPRO> ?
[21:33:13] <sickness> I'm registered here on freenode
[21:33:22] <trochej> :)
[21:33:35] <trochej> In a sense, he is linked in
[21:33:35] <trochej> :)
[21:33:47] <sickness> well, yeah, in that sense, I'm always linked in...
[21:33:55] <trochej> :O)
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[21:37:52] <stevel> gman: ?
[21:38:10] <WickedWicky> stevel: I have those pics of the two non-sparc machines running opensolaris
[21:38:13] <WickedWicky> want them?
[21:38:27] <stevel> sure, it's a bit late for the OSCON preso - but i can use 'em for my other presentations
[21:38:43] <WickedWicky> I didnt see you before, sorry
[21:38:47] <WickedWicky> http://jake.ruivo.org/~patrick/picies/30072007/30072007-001.html
[21:38:55] <WickedWicky> first one is my HP pavilion dv8373ea laptop
[21:39:02] <WickedWicky> second one is my HP desktop workstation at work
[21:39:23] <PPRO> i'm installing opensolaris on my Macbook..
[21:39:30] <PPRO> but with parallels only 32bit..
[21:39:31] <PPRO> uf
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[21:39:46] <trochej> Hmm
[21:39:47] <stevel> cool thanks
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[21:39:59] <trochej> I have one pic of Lenovo 3000 dual core
[21:40:06] <trochej> But of crappy quality :)
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[21:41:26] <trochej> http://www.flickr.com/photos/trochej/707652697/
[21:42:29] <stevel> trochej: thanks, it's good enough quality for a slideshow
[21:43:09] <byron> is this the right place to ask an ssh related question (on opensolaris of course)?
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[21:49:32] <bubbva> you can ask :-)
[21:50:09] <Gman> stevel, opensolaris-discuss mail
[21:52:18] <byron> I'm having an issue with ssh and non-interactive mode. Even though my .bashrc is getting sourced the aliases I created in that file are not getting recognized. E.g: alias ln='gln'. In interactive mode ln uses gln just fine. I have PermitUserEnvironment yes in my sshd config with the correct paths. Any ideas why my aliases don't work?
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[22:00:25] <CIA-26> sd77468: PSARC/2007/307 Victoria Falls CPU/memory FMA, 6532872 Incorrect fault name reported for store buffer, 6536478 anchored page retire for T5140/T5240, 6536482 diagnose FBR and FBU errors to branch, 6545057 on T5140/T5240, diagnose mem UE as L2 cache data UE if C2C bit is set, 6545604 Enhance CPU/Mem DE to support T2plus, 6545632 add US-T2plus support to CPU/Mem error injector
[22:03:23] <Yorokobi> byron, what does your ssh command/call look like?
[22:03:58] <byron> from my local machine I do a simple test byron$ ssh admin at aria-radio dot com ln
[22:04:10] <byron> with the response: .bashrc got sourced
[22:04:11] <byron> ln: Insufficient arguments (0)
[22:04:11] <byron> Usage: ln [-f] [-n] [-s] f1 [f2]
[22:04:11] <byron>        ln [-f] [-n] [-s] f1 ... fn d1
[22:04:11] <byron>        ln [-f] [-n] -s d1 d2
[22:04:20] <byron> which is not the gln
[22:04:23] <Yorokobi> byron, try ssh -t admin at aria-radio dot com 'ln'
[22:04:52] <byron> same thing
[22:05:04] <byron> doesn't call the gln bin
[22:07:06] <oxygene> byron: I tried something similar locally, didn't work either.. hmm..
[22:07:54] <byron> you can't get aliases to work in non-interactive?
[22:08:46] <oxygene> byron: hmm.. what does "ssh ... alias" give you?
[22:09:16] <byron> alias ..='cd ..;l'
[22:09:16] <byron> alias cd..='cd ..'
[22:09:17] <byron> alias ln='gln'
[22:09:17] <byron> alias locate='glocate'
[22:09:17] <byron> alias make='gmake'
[22:09:17] <byron> alias pg='ps -afe|grep -v grep|grep'
[22:09:19] <byron> alias q='quit'
[22:09:21] <byron> alias quit='exit'
[22:09:24] <byron> alias rehash='. ~/.bashrc;'
[22:09:25] <byron> alias tar='gtar'
[22:09:27] <byron> alias updatedb='gupdatedb'
[22:09:28] <oxygene> hmm.. so it actually picks them up
[22:09:29] <byron> alias v='vim'
[22:09:31] <byron> alias which='type'
[22:09:33] <byron> so it is in there
[22:09:35] <byron> yeah
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[22:10:33] <byron> I'd say it's rather bizarre but I won't because I'm a noob :)
[22:12:19] <byron> just tested, none of the aliases are working in non-interactive
[22:12:33] <Yorokobi> byron, you could ask in #ssh and/or #openssh.
[22:12:46] <byron> ok I'll do that. Thanks.
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[22:27:17] <swmackie> Oooh, ~600 KB/sec for b69 DVD from sun.com...
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[22:35:46] <oasnebi> yeargh, i followed http://anilgtech.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/sound-on-solaris/ and when i got to #update_drv -a -i '"pci8086,266e"' audioi810 -> i got a ("pci8086,266e") already in use as a driver or alias.
[22:35:55] <oasnebi> any ideas? i currently have no working sound :(
[22:41:10] <sommerfeld> byron: what's your shell?
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[22:44:38] <byron> bash
[22:44:58] <oasnebi> so before, i was told that either the link i posted above or OSS would solve my sound woes. is there a solaris package for OSS yet?
[22:45:56] <trochej> oasnebi: www.opensound.com
[22:46:46] <oasnebi> am i correct in assuming a lot of opensolaris people like to run it as a desktop OS? (server OS as well no doubt)
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[22:47:31] <aruiz> oasnebi, not only want, but they do
[22:47:43] <aruiz> oasnebi, :P
[22:48:19] <oasnebi> okay, well if OSS doesn't solve this sound issue, that does it for me at least as having opensolaris as a desktop OS
[22:48:27] <oasnebi> it's a great server OS so far from what i've seen
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[22:52:55] <quasi> oasnebi: what kind of soundcard is it?
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[22:55:01] <oasnebi> i810 AC97
[22:55:11] <oasnebi> works with windows and linux
[22:56:21] <RElling> is the audio810 driver not loaded?  prtconf -D
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[23:00:16] <quasi> oasnebi: sounds like what I have - pci1043,812a, instance #0 (driver name: audio810)
[23:00:52] <quasi> oasnebi: and that loads just fine with ON from ~50 and up
[23:01:29] <oasnebi> RElling: does that come standard with opensolaris or was that to be expected to come with that audioi810 package?
[23:01:45] <oasnebi> prtconf -D doesn't show audio810
[23:01:50] <oasnebi> and what's "ON"?
[23:01:59] <quasi> oasnebi: opensolaris
[23:02:23] <oasnebi> hmm, so no need for OSS then?
[23:02:33] <RElling> oasnebi: yes, try 'man audio810'
[23:02:44] <quasi> oasnebi: out of SUNWad810
[23:02:56] <oasnebi> RElling: okay, thanks i'll read through it
[23:03:17] <RElling> it has been around a long time... we used it in the W1100z workstation which is long since been replaced
[23:03:42] <oasnebi> also, is there a solaris equivalent of 'locate' builtin?
[23:03:52] <oasnebi> if there isn't that's fine, but if there is i'd like to know what it's called
[23:04:39] <quasi> oasnebi: there isn't afaik - but if you're looking for something that is part of the solaris package system, you could just grep in /var/sadm/install/contents
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[23:05:57] <oasnebi> okay, so i just modload'd audio810... is there a service i should be restarting?
[23:06:26] <quasi> oasnebi: try checking prtconf -D again
[23:06:31] <oasnebi> the standard gnome that ships with the snv_57 DVDs (is it called the "Java Desktop"?) has a volume control icon that has a diagonal red line through it
[23:06:54] <oasnebi> yeah, the audioi810 line is present
[23:07:28] <RElling> try logging out and logging back in, gnome desktop should pick it up
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[23:11:03] <oasnebi> is mplayer available by the way? i'm so used to having it available in linux/bsd and so new to the style of package management system i'm used to (or lack thereof?) that it's a bit overwhelming to install / delete any packages
[23:11:16] <oasnebi> the mplayer site doesn't have their own solaris package as the OSS site did
[23:12:04] <oasnebi> RElling: so is the solaris gnome desktop called the java desktop because it starts up saying 'java' and 'adobe flash enabled' and it certainly looks very modded compared to vanilla gnome
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[23:12:37] <oasnebi> i logged out of gnome desktop and logged back in and i still see a red line through the volume control :(
[23:13:18] <oasnebi> prtconf -D still shows pci4352,5933 (driver name: audioi810)
[23:13:33] <RElling> realplayer and totem should be there, xine and mplayer are popular (mplayer has been available for Solaris for the past 15+ years)
[23:13:52] <oasnebi> modinfo shows audio810 as well still
[23:14:21] <RElling> silly question, is it muted?
[23:14:22] <oasnebi> realplayer and totem are by far not my favorites. how can i get mplayer without having to compile the source and make my own package?
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[23:14:42] <oasnebi> no, because the device can't be found according to the gnome desktop volume control
[23:15:02] <oasnebi> which i guess is true... i don't see /dev/aud*
[23:15:22] <oasnebi> but i remember reading solaris also puts things in /devices or something so i'll look through there as well
[23:15:52] <oasnebi> whoa, not used to the way /devices is structured... is pci@0,0 equivalent to saying major number 0 minor number 0?
[23:16:31] <sommerfeld> no.
[23:16:37] <sommerfeld> that's PCI bus numbering
[23:16:44] <sommerfeld> has nothing to do with major/minor number space
[23:16:45] <oasnebi> hmm, not familiar with that
[23:16:50] <Pietro_S> oasnebi: you have lot's of choices, SFE repository, blastwave and others
[23:17:01] <sommerfeld> major number is based on which driver attaches
[23:17:04] <oasnebi> oh, right i've heard of blastwave, i'll research all the others
[23:17:05] <oasnebi> thanks
[23:17:07] <sommerfeld> minor space is managed by the driver
[23:17:21] <oasnebi> right
[23:17:24] <RElling> devfsadm -c audio should recreate the /dev audio links
[23:17:32] <oasnebi> RElling: that might do the trick
[23:18:14] <oasnebi> is devfs a kernel level interface? or is it like udev?
[23:18:29] <oasnebi> devfsadm -c audio didn't do the trick :(
[23:18:59] <sommerfeld> The /devices filesystem shows the physical topology of the device connections
[23:19:06] <sommerfeld> PCI busses can be hierarchical
[23:19:19] <quasi> devfsadm -Cv
[23:20:00] <oasnebi> quasi: the cleanup returned nothing
[23:24:07] <oasnebi> i'm going to reboot just to start with a fresh system to play with
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[23:25:41] <oasnebi> also is there a difference between reboot and shutdown -y -g0 -i6 ?
[23:25:47] <oasnebi> besides the obvious...
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[23:26:36] <PerterB> depends what you think is obvious
[23:26:56] <quasi> oasnebi: yes there is - but init 6 is so much easier to type ;)
[23:27:38] <oasnebi> PerterB: i meant besides the fact that the commands actually are not the same (strncmp wise)
[23:27:40] <sommerfeld> shutdown/init 6 will stop SMF services, run rcN.d kill scripts prior to reboot, giving daemons a chance to shut down
[23:28:07] <PerterB> oasnebi: ah, then yes, big difference as sommerfeld just showed
[23:28:39] <quasi> shutdown without  -i 6 is probably a bad idea
[23:28:52] <sommerfeld> reboot will just tell the kernel to shut down & reboot.  kernel will do a graceful sync & shutdown of filesystems
[23:29:03] <PerterB> although, "On x86 systems, reboot may also update the boot archive as needed to ensure a successful reboot" which implies it does a bit more these days
[23:29:21] <sommerfeld> PerterB: but that's about it.
[23:29:24] <oasnebi> yeah, i was wondering what that "updating .../archive" was all about
[23:29:30] <PerterB> sommerfeld: fair enough
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[23:29:48] <oasnebi> so the cleanest way to reboot then is to use the reboot command?
[23:29:51] <quasi> PerterB: I've seen shutdown skip the boot archive when -i6 wasn't used
[23:30:06] <sommerfeld> well, the boot archive is only updated if it's out of date
[23:30:09] <PerterB> oasnebi: just reboot with "init 6" and you won't need to worry your pretty little head about it ;)
[23:30:21] <sommerfeld> depends on what you mean by "cleanest"
[23:30:50] <PerterB> in fact, reboot is the least clean aside from uadmin
[23:30:59] <quasi> sommerfeld: one of the linux dweebs we had on staff got caught in trouble with patches not being applied when using shutdown -r
[23:31:02] <oasnebi> sommerfeld: ah, so reboot forces the update even if it's not needed? in other words, the shutdown -y -i6 -g0 is cleaner?
[23:31:40] <oasnebi> quasi: i'm a 'linux dweeb' but if you have someone on staff, you get a chance to interview them, right...? i'd say the hiring manager is partially at fault then
[23:31:47] <sommerfeld> reboot (and bootadm, for that matter) only updates the archive if a file contained in it changed.  i shutdown my laptop with "bootadm update-archive; uadmin 2 0" because it's fastest and it's clean enough for my purposes.
[23:32:12] <quasi> oasnebi: he was hired to hack leeenux
[23:32:17] <PerterB> sommerfeld: hardcore :)
[23:32:26] <oasnebi> solaris on a laptop? does that mean there's decent wireless support in solaris?
[23:32:42] <sommerfeld> oasnebi: if you're careful in your choice of wireless cards.
[23:33:02] <oasnebi> sommerfeld: is there something similar to project evil or ndiswrapper in solaris?
[23:33:17] <palowoda> Atheros based wireless cards are the best.
[23:33:29] <oasnebi> ah, so just like the others then
[23:33:34] <sommerfeld> oasnebi: my laptop vendor wasn't, but was courteous enough to have the wireless minipci card be user-accessable behind an access panel.
[23:34:07] <sommerfeld> oasnebi: project evil ndiswrappers have been ported to solaris.  but folks are generally much happier replacing mini-pci cards and using the native atheros driver.
[23:34:35] <palowoda> ndis wrappers are a rat hole.
[23:34:38] <sommerfeld> (speculation i've heard is that the ndis drivers themselves are often crappy..)
[23:36:00] <oasnebi> grr, a full reboot resulted in gnome desktop giving me the e-finger again
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[23:36:08] <oasnebi> still a red line through the volume control
[23:36:39] <oasnebi> by default the audio driver wasn't loaded after the reboot so i'll modload it now
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[23:37:18] <palowoda> I'd say try the OSS drivers but they have been screwing up on the latest builds.  Maybe Jurgens latest 810 audio driver works.
[23:37:45] <oasnebi> i'm on snv_57 (what the opensolaris DVDs came with a week or two ago)
[23:37:54] <oasnebi> which is why i want to be able to update this machine soon
[23:38:06] <palowoda> Man that is old. Try the OSS drivers.
[23:38:22] <quasi> oasnebi: if i810 doesn't load by default, then most likely it doesn't know that it should load for your card
[23:38:46] <oasnebi> palowoda: will do
[23:39:14] <oasnebi> wait.. wtf is lx_audio?
[23:39:17] <palowoda> oasnebi: http://www.opensound.com/    Just don't do it with builds 66 and newer.
[23:39:19] <oasnebi> why is it loaded by default?
[23:39:30] <oasnebi> palowoda: yeah, i've got the package downloaded already
[23:41:08] <quasi> oasnebi: try /usr/X11/bin/scanpci -v to find details about your card
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[23:42:04] <quasi> oasnebi: lx_audio may be loading itself for the card and blocking audio810
[23:42:18] <quasi> modinfo|grep audio
[23:42:19] <quasi> 165 fffffffff40ed000   4600  40   1  audio810 (mixer audio driver 1.9)
[23:42:19] <quasi> 167 fffffffff41be000   3c18   -   1  audiosup (Audio Device Support 1.24)
[23:45:05] <palowoda> Brandz and lx_audio should just be scraped.  It's never going to be fully supported.  Let's beat dead horses.
[23:46:56] <quasi> palowoda: let's just leave that for now - I want it to support skype ;)
[23:49:52] <oasnebi> quasi: so if i modunload lx_audio and then try devfsadm -c audio, you think it might work? i just rebooted the system so i have a clean variable-free (for the most part) system to install OSS on, but i might give this a go first
[23:50:25] <quasi> oasnebi: works for me[tm] ;)
[23:51:13] <quasi> but then I don't have brandz
[23:56:51] <Triskelios> lx_audio hasn't caused problems for me, it likely doesn't access the audio device until it's opened in the zone
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