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[00:00:29] <CIA-26> dougm: 6559697 sharemgr: nfs_parse_legacy_options() leaks memory, segfaults on failure
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[00:02:14] <dclarke> anyone know off the top of their head how many digits of precision I *should* get from the long double type ?
[00:02:28] <dclarke> 18 digits ?
[00:03:03] <LuckyLuke> long and double weren't different things?
[00:03:10] * LuckyLuke too much time not using C anymore :)
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[00:03:32] <dclarke> they were and still are .. but .. you can ram them together
[00:03:45] <LuckyLuke> ouch.
[00:03:57] <_mary_kate_> LuckyLuke: 'long' on its own is 'long int'
[00:04:04] <_mary_kate_> 'long double' is a different type from that
[00:04:14] <dclarke> yep
[00:04:31] <dclarke> 64 bit float as opposed to a long integer
[00:04:39] <dclarke> long as in word size
[00:04:44] <LuckyLuke> oh. I just knew about single and double float (ieee754), and everything else was non-float.
[00:05:00] <_mary_kate_> iirc long double is 80 bits on x86
[00:05:07] <PerterB> long double should be 80 or 128 bits, no?
[00:05:10] <_mary_kate_> although i could be wrong there, never did much floating maths
[00:05:13] <dclarke> on x86 you are correct !
[00:05:26] <dclarke> its longer but .. not really used in IEEE754
[00:05:43] <dclarke>  /opt/SUNWspro/bin/cc -\# -xstrconst -xildoff -xarch=generic -fsimple=0 -ftrap=%all -H -Kpic -xlibmieee -xlibmil -xtime -Xa -xtransition -o floater floater.o -lm
[00:06:00] <dclarke> that results in a binary that tosses an Arithmetic Exception(coredump) every time
[00:06:22] <dclarke> if I remove the -fsimple=0 -ftrap=%all then I get a binary that give accurate results
[00:06:27] <LuckyLuke> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_double
[00:06:28] <dclarke> same source
[00:06:52] <LuckyLuke> cool. they introduced it in hardware from the pentium or something like that
[00:07:02] <LuckyLuke> I was still at i387 :)
[00:07:07] <dclarke> Sparc had it for a long long time
[00:07:24] <dclarke> just after the Weitek .. if anyone recalls those
[00:07:35] <dclarke> the IPX/IPC had the Weitek as an option
[00:07:58] * dclarke plays the fun filled game called "spot the old man"
[00:08:23] <LuckyLuke> I remember *reading* about them
[00:08:31] <wesolows> I remember when they were new :-)
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[00:08:43] <dclarke> me too
[00:08:54] <dclarke> thanks .. I don't feel so old now
[00:09:00] <PerterB> sadly, me too
[00:09:02] <dclarke> I also recall the 8087
[00:09:19] <dclarke> anyone here had a Timex Sinclair ZX80 ?
[00:09:22] <LuckyLuke> I actually have one, somewhere. The chip, not a pc using it.
[00:09:42] <LuckyLuke> dclarke: upstairs I've got a working Toshiba HX-20, that's a Z80 with MSX Basic ROM
[00:09:56] <PerterB> didn't Ross also do a drop-in replacement about the same time?
[00:09:57] <dclarke> what the heck are ya doing with that ?
[00:10:07] <LuckyLuke> the chip I was referring to is an i8087
[00:10:35] <dclarke> i8087 was the numeric copro for the 8088
[00:10:39] <_mary_kate_> i have a 68882 somewhere ;-)
[00:10:46] <wesolows> I had thought the TI-99 was a Z80 based box as well - same era.  I had one of those.
[00:10:49] <dclarke> and I think that the IBM PC ( modle 5150 ) had that as an option
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[00:11:11] <dclarke> the Texas Instruments TI-99 was a great machine
[00:11:16] <LuckyLuke> dclarke: nothing really. But I used to play with it when I was young. My father bought it and never really used.
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[00:11:36] <dclarke> TI-99 folowed the TRS-80 I think
[00:11:45] <dclarke> and the TRS-80 was a nindustry unto itself
[00:11:56] <LuckyLuke> it's there with his younger friend, a NEC v20
[00:12:09] <LuckyLuke> (more or less an improved 80186 clone)
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[00:12:48] <dclarke> I never knew that the 80186 was ever released
[00:13:01] <wesolows> it must have been; I later had a modem that used it
[00:13:11] <LuckyLuke> yes, but it wasn't generally used on 'general purpose' computers
[00:13:12] <dclarke> I think that Digital tried to do a thing with it on the DEC Rainbow and it died a sudden death out of the gate
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[00:13:29] <sommerfeld> TI-99/4A was built around a 16-bit TI CPU
[00:13:44] <PerterB> the v20 was pretty popular though, ISTR Amstrad used it in their early PC clones
[00:13:51] <dclarke> ooh .. 16-bit
[00:15:20] <dclarke> wow .. I just found my old port of cbzone
[00:15:28] <LuckyLuke> many people call them 8-bit even if they had 16bit register and busses. to distinguish them from the 286 which had that totally useless 16bit pseudo-protected-mode
[00:15:29] <dclarke> it was a bsd game I think
[00:15:50] <dclarke> hrmm wants XIL libs
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[00:16:09] <dclarke> core dump .. never mind .. sorry I mentioned it
[00:16:10] <PerterB> ah, the choice of C memory models on those CPUs makes your current floating point issue look trivial though ;)
[00:16:15] <alanc> those just barely got deleted from Nevada a few builds ago
[00:16:24] <alanc> though XIL was listed as EOL since Solaris 8
[00:16:33] <dclarke> its been around forever
[00:16:52] <dclarke> of course .. I guess of all people you would know
[00:17:14] <alanc> wrote code that used XIL for a research project at Berkeley before I came to Sun
[00:17:30] <alanc> got here just as Sun was killing XIL
[00:18:02] <dclarke> application SUNWrtvcl            SunVideo XIL library support
[00:18:18] <dclarke> application SUNWxilcg            SX/CG14 XIL Support
[00:18:35] <dclarke> hrmm .. I may just open this box and insert a TGX+ option card
[00:18:51] <Reidms> When I cvsup I get this cvsup cvs-supfile
[00:18:52] <Reidms> Cannot get IP address of my own host -- is its hostname correct?
[00:19:10] <Reidms> wrong channel LOL
[00:19:16] <Reidms> sorry about that :p
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[00:19:37] <dclarke> it could have been waay worse
[00:19:54] <Goran_> does solaris support wg111v2 wireless usb card?
[00:20:27] <Goran_> is solaris ndiswrapper same as linux?
[00:20:32] <Reidms> dclarke lol true
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[00:21:24] <DeviantPeer> hi all.
[00:22:04] <DeviantPeer> I have a bit of a problem: at work I'm trying to learn how to configure LDAP for authentication using SunOne Directory Server 6.1
[00:22:22] <sommerfeld> Goran: it's a port of the BSD ndiswrapper.  I don't know if that's related to the linux ndiswrapper
[00:22:31] <dclarke> yikes .. there is a nice Sun BluePrints book on that
[00:22:56] <DeviantPeer> so I set up two zones: one for ldap server, the second for "client"
[00:23:31] <dclarke> DeviantPeer :  I think that "Solaris and LDAP" by Bialaski and Haines covers off that topic
[00:23:36] <DeviantPeer> I managed to set up the ldap serever (I think). I can do a ldapsearch on it, using DUAConfigProfile and all that.
[00:23:54] <palowoda> Goran_: opensolaris supports no know wireless usb card.  ASUS ethernet wireless bridges are the best bet.
[00:23:55] <jbk> there's some black art to getting everything working
[00:24:03] <DeviantPeer> dclarke: mmm... but is it with version >= 6 of directory server?
[00:24:05] <jbk> w/ ldap
[00:24:12] <Goran_> thanks
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[00:24:17] <dclarke> jbk : a cat needs to be sacrificed
[00:24:44] <palowoda> I think the model is ASUS 311, I have one works straight out of the box with solaris or opensolaris.
[00:24:46] <DeviantPeer> dclarke: 'cause there are some diferences from 5.2 to 6 - no more idsconfig for example.
[00:25:13] <wesolows> oh, LDAP - an ordinary cat won't do.  Has to be a kitten.  A tabby.
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[00:25:45] * dclarke thinks it probably has to be cute too
[00:25:46] <DeviantPeer> wesolows: hehe, I feel more like it has to be a huge tiger! :)
[00:26:15] <wesolows> LDAP is a pain.  iPlanet LDAP is a lost cause.
[00:26:28] <dclarke> oooh .. iPlanet stuff
[00:26:32] <dclarke> that reminds me
[00:26:39] <dclarke> I made a fascinating discovery
[00:26:55] <PerterB> wesolows: why do you think it's a lost cause?
[00:27:05] <DeviantPeer> come on, ok, kitty, cute, whatever.. ;) but how do I make it do anything?
[00:27:08] <dclarke> while removing packages from Solaris I eventually hit a package that made the system useless
[00:27:09] <wesolows> PerterB: Because I once spent 3 days trying to get it working.
[00:27:13] <DeviantPeer> does it do tricks?
[00:27:16] <DeviantPeer> :)
[00:27:21] <wesolows> PerterB: OpenLDAP takes about an hour, less with experience.
[00:27:35] <wesolows> I've yet to see anyone successfully install ipds.
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[00:27:51] <DeviantPeer> wesolows: I managed with Linux/OpenLDAP . no big problems
[00:27:57] <jbk> i've done it, just takes a few tries to understand everything that's going on
[00:28:09] <palowoda> Goran_: It was this model:  http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=12&l2=41&l3=0&l4=0&model=59&modelmenu=1
[00:28:16] <PerterB> I do it fairly regularly... and with DS6 it's a lot easier
[00:28:34] <jbk> i even went so far as to write my own pam module to get around a rather glaring hole w/ ldap (lack of decent host access control)
[00:28:35] <dclarke> whatever this does .. don't ever remove it :: system SUNWpr Netscape Portable Runtime
[00:28:38] <PerterB> conversely I have an irrational dislike of openldap
[00:28:39] <DeviantPeer> PeterB: that you are the one that will provided me with answers!
[00:28:42] <wesolows> PerterB: Is the key to not read the instructions?  Because I read them, and suspect that's what did me in.
[00:29:06] <DeviantPeer> PerterB: what do you do to make the kitten growl?
[00:29:07] <PerterB> wesolows: well, circa sol8 and ds5.0, the instructions blatantly lied
[00:29:08] <DeviantPeer> :)
[00:29:22] <wesolows> PerterB: Nah, this was S10 with JES 200?Q?
[00:29:47] <wesolows> it also may have been extracting vengenace on me for not installing its bloated worthless java brethren
[00:30:06] <palowoda> Hey are they going to open source DS?
[00:30:07] <wesolows> even though that's supposed to be possible
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[00:30:16] <DeviantPeer> uhhh... I was trying to do it just with DS.
[00:30:59] <DeviantPeer> wesolows: I managed to get the DUAConfigProfile schema, that is (suposedely) necessary but not included in DS.
[00:31:12] <PerterB> well, unless you want the latest and greatest, with sol9 and 10 you can just add the IPLT* packages you want from the install media
[00:31:12] <wesolows> dear god, that thing
[00:32:05] <wesolows> DeviantPeer: Yeah, I don't understand that at all.  I have an LDIF that seemed to work for its content but I'll be damned if I know why it's needed (or, more correctly, why the client seems to refuse to work without it).
[00:32:48] <DeviantPeer> wesolows: my problem exactly.
[00:33:15] <richlowe> PerterB: I've been wondering why that's still on the media.
[00:33:33] <DeviantPeer> Hey PerterB: come on, what magic do you do with DS?
[00:33:45] <nachox> the iplt packages are in the solaris 10 dvd?
[00:33:46] <_mary_kate_> when using LDAP, how do you define that certain users can only log into particular hosts?
[00:34:01] <PerterB> richlowe: well, they bundled it with a special license for sol9 (presumably to encourage people to migrate from NIS), so maybe it just stuck there?
[00:34:30] <PerterB> _mary_kate_: ask jbk for his PAM module :)
[00:34:46] <PerterB> DeviantPeer: in what way?
[00:34:51] <_mary_kate_> stupid that such an obvious feature is missing from a supposedly 'centralised' directory service..
[00:35:12] <DeviantPeer> PerterB: I'm more or less stuck on getting the client hosts to auth on the server.
[00:35:14] <wesolows> I actually think the right answer there is not a modified LDAP module but a separate and more general framework - much like, I believe, the Sparks project contemplates.
[00:35:29] <jbk> unfortunately, the source is still at my old employer
[00:35:38] <PerterB> doh
[00:35:41] <nachox> ouch
[00:35:44] <jbk> but wouldn't be too bad to recreate
[00:35:54] <PerterB> well, Sun's pam_list is meant to be integrated RSN
[00:35:58] <jbk> even nicer if it could hook into libsldap to get the info
[00:36:02] <DeviantPeer> PerterB: when I do the ldapclient it fails... and no proper error message.
[00:36:25] <jbk> basically it used ldap roles
[00:36:32] <dclarke> can someone do a common sense check here with me ?  Is 6.745304760270640703e+05 == 6.745304760270640703 x 10^5 ?
[00:36:37] <jbk> people were put into roles
[00:36:46] <dclarke> which is 67453.04760270640
[00:36:47] <PerterB> did you run idsconfig against the directory before adding any clients? And the create a profile?
[00:37:18] <jbk> then you had an entry for each host in ldap, with an attribute listing what roles (or userdn's) were allowed on the box, and you could group/next servers, so they could also inherit any roles and users from the parent node(s)
[00:37:19] <DeviantPeer> PerterB: no... I created the server with a profile, and added two users
[00:37:45] <PerterB> ok... read up on idsconfig. it sorts out the schemas and required ACIs
[00:37:59] <dclarke> never mind
[00:38:02] <dclarke> duh
[00:38:09] <dclarke> long day .. going for coffee
[00:38:10] <PerterB> and (last I looked) will fail with DS6 unless you hack the script ;)
[00:38:21] <DeviantPeer> ohhhh... goody.
[00:38:24] <DeviantPeer> :)
[00:38:31] <DeviantPeer> so what hack does the script need?
[00:38:34] <PerterB> it's a trivial version check
[00:38:41] <DeviantPeer> ahhh
[00:38:46] <PerterB> just change the 5 to a 6
[00:38:59] <DeviantPeer> yah, I remember it complained about the server version.
[00:39:07] <DeviantPeer> hummm... I'll try that.
[00:39:33] <DeviantPeer> and then it should work... because I guess the chema in use will be the one the ldapclient is expecting.
[00:39:34] <DeviantPeer> right?
[00:39:35] <PerterB> this conversation is bringing me round to wesolows' opinion that it's a crock :)
[00:39:41] <DeviantPeer> lol
[00:39:46] <DeviantPeer> he might be right...
[00:40:01] <DeviantPeer> I was convinced that he is.. even before he stated it . :)
[00:40:32] <DeviantPeer> Thx PerterB.
[00:40:41] * dclarke advised people to sacrifice a cat and did anyone listen? no.  so you're all lost lost lost in it now
[00:41:09] <PerterB> I once stuck pins in a wax model of Bill Gates, does that count?
[00:41:21] <dclarke> yes and good effort too
[00:41:30] <DeviantPeer> PerterB: no.. that just normal behaviour for inteligent people. :)
[00:41:46] <DeviantPeer> beside the cat should be cute.
[00:41:56] <DeviantPeer> how do you get BGates to be cute?
[00:42:16] <Doc> drink a log of alcohol?
[00:42:17] <PerterB> well, there's those pinup shots of him from Teen Beat
[00:42:22] <Doc> lot  too
[00:42:34] <wesolows> Doc: That's step 0 for any project...didn't think it had to be called out.
[00:42:35] <Doc> although a log full would probably work
[00:42:38] <DeviantPeer> lol.
[00:43:24] <PerterB> http://www.snopes.com/photos/people/gates.asp (ok, not Teen Beat)
[00:45:42] <PerterB> that killed the conversation.....
[00:45:58] <dclarke> yeah .. well done too
[00:46:14] <dclarke> that photo would kill most anything
[00:47:21] <DeviantPeer> oh the horror... the horror
[00:48:28] <Marv|LG> i need to cut my eyes out now
[00:48:53] <Trident> PerterB: You should warn that the photos are not work safe...
[00:49:02] * PerterB smirks
[00:49:11] <DeviantPeer> not work safe?
[00:49:17] <DeviantPeer> they are not sanity safe!
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[00:51:04] <Reidms> Does google run freebsd???
[00:51:18] <Jondice> mostly linux i believe
[00:51:39] <Reidms> They donate 5-10K a year to the FreeBSD Foundation
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[00:51:51] <Jondice> but, i remember hearing there was some recent interest in opensolaris
[00:52:15] <Reidms> That would be awesome if they switched over
[00:52:34] <Reidms> I bet the hardware google has is cheap...
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[00:53:57] <delewis> wow, the XVR-1000 is an amazing framebuffer. (just pulled my Elite3D out of my Blade 1000)
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[00:55:50] <nachox> i doubt it's that cheap, they need something that is power efficient
[00:56:23] <DeviantPeer> they have custom made power suplies for example.
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[01:00:31] <CIA-26> kucharsk: 6583939 BrandZ installer can confuse source and binary ISO files
[01:00:32] <CIA-26> edp: 6583738 offsets.in on sparc should provide a define for p_agenttp
[01:00:35] <DeviantPeer> time for me to go...
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[01:00:47] <DeviantPeer> thanks for the help PerterB.
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[01:02:56] <nachox> PerterB, youre the recident ldap expert? :)
[01:03:03] <PerterB> no :P
[01:03:14] * PerterB points at jbk
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[01:04:29] <nachox> hehe, shouldnt something like allowing login from some hosts and denying it from others be done at the ldap server?
[01:05:21] <nachox> instead of using an pam module i mean
[01:06:20] <wesolows> a PAM module that enforces that constraint should be able to consult arbitrary backends, including an LDAP server
[01:06:26] <PerterB> maybe... but ldap is good at providing data, not implementing policy (the same issue exists with NIS etc)
[01:07:24] <PerterB> wesolows: yeah... last place I ported Linux's pam_access (or is it pam_allow) which uses the getXbyY functions
[01:08:11] <nachox> it makes sense
[01:09:52] <PerterB> you can also go the "brute force and ignorance" route and use passwd: compat in nsswitch.conf, which allows you to control which parts of the directory each server sees.... but that has unwelcome side effects
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[01:11:12] <zooko> http://lwn.net has an inflammatory article about the death of OpenDocument.
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[01:11:27] <zooko> Well, actually LinuxWorld has the article...  LWN just has a link to it and a discussion.
[01:12:17] <EchoBinary> anyone know of a decent free NFS client for Microsoft?
[01:12:29] <nachox> EchoBinary, sfu is free
[01:13:06] <EchoBinary> cool
[01:13:09] <EchoBinary> thanks :)
[01:13:20] <EchoBinary> for a moment i thought you meant something else  LOL
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[01:13:32] <nachox> services for unix
[01:13:42] <nachox> i think the most current version is 3.5
[01:13:43] <EchoBinary> aye
[01:13:56] <nachox> and no, i didnt mean stfu
[01:14:25] <EchoBinary> lol - i realized after a moment
[01:16:52] <Plouj> anyone know what is the belenix root password?
[01:17:13] <Plouj> oh, belenix...
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[01:28:06] <Plouj> huh
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[01:28:19] <Plouj> how did I just get a 11.9GB raidz array from 3 4GB disks?
[01:28:28] <Plouj> isn't it supposed to be 8GB max?
[01:28:42] <sommerfeld> what does "df" say is available?
[01:29:08] <Plouj> oh, 7.8GB
[01:29:19] <Plouj> but zpool shows 11.9G
[01:30:39] <sommerfeld> computing available space with raidz isn't as straightforward as with raid-5
[01:31:17] <Stric> Plouj: the pool contains disks worth 12GB.. when you use them for the storage (zfs), you will get 8GB of storage capacity
[01:31:49] <sommerfeld> (in part because small blocks are mirrored rather than parity-protected)
[01:31:51] <Plouj> ok
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[01:32:31] <Stric> that's my main theory.. but as sommerfeld says, it's not that straight forward all the time..
[01:33:47] <Plouj> the other thing is, I wish I could create a degrated raidz array
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[01:34:45] <Stric> you can.. create a sparse file with the size as the "disk not there" and use that.. then just get rid of the file..
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[01:35:48] <Plouj> how do I create such a file?
[01:35:59] <nachox> isnt the performance also seriously affected then the raidz is left without a disk?
[01:36:10] <Plouj> well, I don't want it like that for ever, nachox
[01:36:18] <nachox> mkfile iirc
[01:36:19] <Plouj> only while I move the three disks from my desktop into the server
[01:36:19] <sommerfeld> nachox: actually, not really
[01:36:46] <Stric> Plouj: mkfile -n size filename
[01:36:53] <sommerfeld> nachox: zfs always reads and writes full stripes with raidz
[01:37:22] <Stric> Plouj: take note not to create it larger than the disk you're gonna put there afterwards..
[01:37:39] <Plouj> heh, yeah
[01:37:55] <sommerfeld> normal raid-5 degraded performance is often horrible because it often needs to do partial-stripe writes
[01:37:58] <Plouj> I'll create based on the actual byte count
[01:38:12] <Stric> degraded raid5's can be faster than healty raid5's.. seen that in a hwraid product.. we sent that one back (25MB/s for 9 FCAL disks isn't that great)
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[01:40:43] <nachox> that is actually really interesting
[01:41:45] <nachox> in all the software raid implementations i read about it explained how much performance sucked when raid-5 was left without a device
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[01:42:51] <Stric> for reads, it just means that you need to calculate one disk worth of data using xor instead of reading it from disk
[01:43:10] <Stric> if your cpu is faster than your disk/disk controller, then degraded will be faster
[01:43:19] <sommerfeld> Stric: well, except for partial-stripe reads or writes
[01:43:34] <Plouj> umm
[01:43:36] <sommerfeld> in degraded mode, you have to read the whole stripe and reconstruct
[01:43:43] <Plouj> I wonder how to get the exact byte size of a disk in solaris
[01:43:59] <Stric> Plouj: iostat -En
[01:44:37] <Stric> oh well. sleepy time.
[01:44:42] <Plouj> thanks
[01:45:19] <coffman> i heard there is a m2 version coming of the thumper
[01:45:34] <coffman> which sata chipset are you guys using for it?
[01:46:08] <jmcp> coffman: do you really think we'd release that sort of information before the box ships?
[01:46:27] <coffman> pff :P
[01:46:38] <nachox> sure if you were REALLY open, you would :)
[01:46:51] * jmcp gives everybody the finger
[01:47:08] * nachox takes the finger... and breaks it
[01:47:21] <jmcp> ow!
[01:47:38] * wesolows considers it
[01:47:43] <nachox> try typing now :)
[01:48:08] <coffman> yeah and you are not allowed to take any money for it and all the hardware should be gplv3
[01:48:11] * coffman hides
[01:48:20] * jmcp aims a kick in coffman's direction
[01:48:21] * wesolows decides against it, if only because plans change and I don't want to give people wrong expectations
[01:48:28] <coffman> :P
[01:48:46] <wesolows> I wouldn't actually see any harm in telling you if I were 100% sure it would be correct.
[01:48:59] <nachox> you do know right?
[01:49:04] <wesolows> Yes.
[01:49:22] <wesolows> I know the plan of record, but stuff happens.
[01:49:37] <wesolows> Suffice it to say it will be well-supported by Solaris before you get the box in hand.
[01:49:38] <coffman> im seeing it right now, thumper with 1tb disk and pci-e and neptunes
[01:49:55] * nachox bets some marvell stuff
[01:50:09] <Stric> wesolows: better use two hands, they're heavy
[01:50:19] <coffman> if they have pci-e chips..
[01:50:27] <wesolows> Stric: Yeah, I can't actually lift them into racks safely
[01:50:49] <wesolows> Stric: It really takes 2 - and I think the documentation says you need 2 people after taking out all the disks (!)
[01:51:00] <jmcp> Stric: and lift with a straight back too
[01:51:22] <wesolows> I've found that 2 people can lift them just fine with the disks in.
[01:51:24] * coffman wonders what kind of performance you would get out of theses with pci-e and 10gb ethernet
[01:51:59] <coffman> i can see storage vendors get nervous about
[01:52:16] <nachox> will they still use amd procs? you could at least tell us that :)
[01:52:42] <coffman> nachox: they will
[01:53:01] <coffman> nachox: hypertransport is what they need
[01:53:52] <sommerfeld> wesolows: I suspect the "N people needed to lift" is calibrated conservatively based on weak people
[01:54:02] <coffman> guy from dns germany told me that sun is going to do basicly the same to it what they did with the other m2 versions
[01:54:15] <jmcp> which is?
[01:54:26] <sommerfeld> wesolows: any idea how many people it took to lift the hardened thumper?
[01:54:41] <wesolows> sommerfeld: Undoubtedly there's some ISO standard for it that unions and HR types agreed to, yes.
[01:54:54] <wesolows> sommerfeld: Hardened thumper?  Haven't heard of this box.
[01:55:07] <coffman> switching from amd chipset to nvidia, add pci-e and change to the recent socket
[01:55:14] <nachox> it is a thumper with a bullet proof cover
[01:55:15] <sommerfeld> wesolows: rumor has it that someone filled a prototype thumper box with concrete
[01:55:27] <sommerfeld> left in someone's office in mpk
[01:55:32] <jmcp> sommerfeld: out of spite?
[01:55:46] <wesolows> Ahh, I didn't know that was a thumper.  I knew Bill got a big heavy lump of concrete in his office.
[01:55:57] <sommerfeld> i haven't seen it, either
[01:56:00] <wesolows> I guess that must have weighed several hundred kilos.
[01:56:07] <LeftWing> Haha, that's fantastic.
[01:56:08] <sommerfeld> just heard references to it on another IRC channel
[01:56:40] <coffman> nice one
[01:56:52] <nachox> i cant believe he was not joking when he said someone filled that with concrete
[01:57:05] <sommerfeld> back of the envelope, a thumper-sized chunk of typical concrete should be about 300lb
[01:57:22] <wesolows> sounds about right
[01:57:35] <wesolows> which could probably be lifted by the intended 4 people
[01:57:38] <sommerfeld> several hundred pounds, not quite several hundred kg
[01:57:57] <wesolows> yeah, for some reason I was thinking of C10
[01:58:21] <wesolows> which supposedly needs 4 people with all cards and PSUs removed!
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[01:58:39] <sommerfeld> (google says 2.3g per cm^3; sun system handbook has dimensions in mm; you do the math...)
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[02:00:28] <CIA-26> vikram: 6578845 cfgadm_sata should use libdevinfo to check for devices
[02:02:57] <Plazma> how well does nevada/sol10 support sata.. i would assume well
[02:04:33] <nachox> last time i checked the via controller in my desktop was still not supported
[02:04:43] <nachox> but it's a crappy controller anyway
[02:05:58] <coffman> Plazma: you got two types of sata, sata one controllers - they mostly act in ide legacy and are no problem - like intel chipsets,nvidia, sil3112
[02:07:18] <coffman> Plazma: then you got "true" sata - sata 2 - which have all that new stuff like ncq and so on - those are like sil3124, the marvel MV88xx etc
[02:07:38] <coffman> the worst ones are via for sure
[02:07:40] <Plazma> well the board i want to buy, has the nforce northbridge chipset
[02:07:45] <Plazma> nforce 4 iirc
[02:08:00] <coffman> Plazma: should be fine
[02:08:13] <Plazma> coffman, what do you use your nevada desktop for? everything?
[02:08:41] <soulie> any ed2k program running on solaris yet?
[02:08:55] <coffman> emule?
[02:09:05] <Plouj> humm, I wonder what happens if I initially create a raidz array with 4GB, 4GB, and 5GB and then replace the 5GB drive with a 4GB one
[02:09:06] <Plazma> amule should work
[02:09:15] <soulie> ;o
[02:09:17] <soulie> rly?
[02:09:30] <Plazma> compile it for yourself
[02:09:33] <Plazma> or check sunfreeware
[02:09:36] <Plazma> might be a pkg for it
[02:09:41] <soulie> :) ok ty
[02:09:46] <sommerfeld> Plouj: should work, but I haven't tried it.
[02:09:57] <coffman> soulie: pmpkg has mldonkey
[02:10:05] <coffman> soulie: builds easy with gcc
[02:10:18] <sommerfeld> (the raidz size is, IIRC, computed based on size of smallest disk in group)
[02:10:23] <coffman> Plazma: ill use nv on my laptop as desktop yes
[02:10:53] <Plouj> sommerfeld: is it dynamically recomputed upon replacement though?
[02:11:05] <Plazma> coffman, what all do you do with it though.. chat. browse, email, code..?
[02:11:23] <Plazma> was wanting a productivity type evaluation
[02:11:24] <coffman> Plazma: sure, all the normal stuff
[02:11:27] <Plazma> ahh
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[02:11:48] <coffman> media playing etc etc
[02:12:00] <Plazma> im building me an opteron box i think.. or upgrading
[02:13:00] <coffman> Plazma: buy yourself a dualcore amd, nvidia chipset, nvidia grafi
[02:13:14] <Plazma> dual core opteron
[02:13:19] <Plazma> nvidia chipset and nvidia grafix
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[02:13:21] <coffman> *grafi\videp card
[02:13:30] <coffman> gar typo day
[02:13:38] <coffman> Plazma: something like that
[02:13:46] <coffman> solaris likes fast disks
[02:14:29] <alanc> hmm, that seems like a very misleading entry in the opensolaris ARC case logs: SAC-ADVOCATES 2007/408  	SelfReview  	Project Indiana - An overview  	closed approved automatic
[02:14:44] <alanc> (especially since it's showing up as a closed-to-the-public case)
[02:15:01] <richlowe> alanc: Yeah, it's a plocherism.
[02:15:27] <alanc> nothing was approved - it was just a presentation by Ian of his plans
[02:15:37] <richlowe> Yes.
[02:17:03] <richlowe> alanc: it showing up closed is correct though.
[02:17:05] <richlowe> alanc: since it was.
[02:17:14] <richlowe> you may think that's funny (I think it's outright hilarious), but it was.
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[02:17:50] <alanc> it's funny enough until someone misunderstands and blasts us for secretly approving indiana behind closed doors
[02:18:07] <richlowe> I would assume nobody would misunderstand it in that way.
[02:18:13] <richlowe> plus, from my point of view, that's still funny.
[02:18:39] <richlowe> schadenfreude is so much better when you get to sit back and watch the path thereto.
[02:19:25] <palowoda> somebody misunderstands project indiana?
[02:19:33] <coffman> schadenfreude
[02:19:37] * coffman claps
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[02:23:15] <alanc> at the end of said presentation, Ian asked if the audience was "more or less confused" about Indiana after his talk - he didn't like the answer of "Yes, we're more or less confused"
[02:23:24] <coffman> nice fucking nice
[02:23:25] <LeftWing> heh
[02:23:32] <coffman> my ultra 10 reboots
[02:23:34] <coffman> gar
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[02:24:17] <Doc> i read his latest blog - isnt Indiana just Solaris without pkgadd ?
[02:24:18] <jmcp> alanc: but did he laugh?
[02:25:01] <alanc> don't remember
[02:25:30] <alanc> but if you go to the above mentioned case id internally, you can listen to the 2.5 hour mp3 file
[02:27:56] <nachox> i hope things change, but so far all ian did was confusing users
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[02:28:55] <richlowe> nachox: Ah, so he acclimated to the Sun way of doing things rather fast, no? ;)
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[02:29:37] <unixware> hola
[02:29:41] <nachox> richlowe, debian-legal is the best training outside sin you can get ;)
[02:29:46] <nachox> *sun
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[02:32:56] <jamesd> nachox, are you refering to "training" as an S&M type thing ;-)
[02:33:27] <coffman> ah greate, machine craped out again
[02:34:02] <unixware> is any big difrence in solaris an opensolaris?
[02:34:48] <nachox> unixware, opensolaris is not an os :) opensolaris is code and a lot of communities around it
[02:35:04] <unixware> ahh
[02:35:40] <sommerfeld> solaris the binary distribution is based on opensolaris the pile of source code (plus other non-public sources)
[02:35:45] <e^ipi> seriously... OpenSolaris:Solaris::Linux:RHEL
[02:35:54] <e^ipi> i'm not sure why that's so hard to grok
[02:36:20] <unixware> sommerfeld ah ok :)
[02:36:36] <nachox> jamesd, :)
[02:36:55] <unixware> so, is it ok to work with opensolaris as a production server?
[02:37:24] <e^ipi> opensolaris is just code, not an operating system
[02:37:25] <jamesd> unixware, www.joyent.com does
[02:37:32] <nachox> no, unless your server can magically understand source code
[02:37:42] <jbk> well they use solaris express, don't they?
[02:37:50] <e^ipi> yes, they do
[02:37:55] <coffman> media playing etc etcA
[02:37:58] <unixware> or solaris 10?
[02:38:02] <coffman> arg
[02:38:03] <coffman> sry
[02:38:26] <nachox> you need an opensolaris based distro like solaris express, belenix, schillix, martux or nexenta
[02:38:40] <jbk> just depends on what you want, and what your expectations are for support
[02:38:43] <unixware> ok
[02:39:21] <nachox> you can of course run solaris 10, and you probably want a support contract with it, they are cheap and feed a lot of people in here :)
[02:39:29] <jbk> the rule i believe (and I'm sure someone that acutally knows the process will correct me if i'm wrong) is that you can't commit code to the main source tree until it's considered production ready
[02:40:23] <unixware> nachox ok :)
[02:40:34] <jbk> it's just there isn't necessairly hundreds (or thousands?) of people dedicated to suporting those specific builds that can be utilized (with a support contract)
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[02:43:49] * nachox wants a marketing position at sun,"irc evangelist" :P
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[02:45:18] <unixware> evangelist muslam?
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[02:46:21] <nachox> ?
[02:46:36] <unixware> muslim
[02:47:21] <unixware> ?????
[02:48:09] <unixware> :P
[02:51:10] <unixware> or gaucho?
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[02:52:50] <unixware> Ignacio_ wazaa
[02:53:27] <sommerfeld> unixware: uh, what?
[02:54:09] <unixware> sommerfeld im joking :P with nachox :P
[02:54:32] <nachox> no, you were joking alone actually
[02:54:44] <nachox> i was reading the paper :)
[02:54:51] <unixware> :S
[02:55:20] <FireflyST> does anyone here know how to set up serving multiple web sites from separate machines to a single IP?
[02:55:30] <FireflyST> to=through
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[02:56:38] 
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[02:58:10] <alanc> put a proxy server on the machine with that IP that proxies the other machines?
[02:58:15] <nachox> fireflyS, i'd google for load balancing and apache, i know it is possible
[02:58:36] <nachox> i know there are some apache modules that do just that
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[02:59:08] * alanc doesn't know exactly how to do it, but would just go ask his wife, since http proxy/caches is what she works on
[02:59:27] <nachox> http://www.backhand.org/wackamole/
[03:00:23] <sommerfeld> last I checked "nacho" was a nickname for ignacio
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[03:00:47] <nachox> it is
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[03:01:27] <sommerfeld> (and "Nachos" the canonical tex-mex appetizer were invented by an Ignacio)
[03:01:38] <nachox> that i dont know
[03:05:05] <sommerfeld> (or at least so said Alton Brown in an episode of Good Eats; wikipedia agrees)
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[03:07:44] <sommerfeld> (and, if wikipedia is to believe, Nachos were invented in the same mexican border town that gave us the current CEO of AMD)
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[03:08:19] <e^ipi> interesting... the town is known for it's' chips then
[03:08:47] <sommerfeld> Both types!
[03:09:41] <sommerfeld> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piedras_Negras%2C_Coahuila#Trivia
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[03:11:12] <dclarke> test
[03:11:19] <e^ipi> i didn't study
[03:11:30] <dclarke> wow .. this bloody thing works
[03:11:42] <nachox> is it multiple choice?
[03:11:43] <e^ipi> ?
[03:11:44] <dclarke> SeaMonkey 1.1.3 and all dependencies works on Solaris 8 sun4m. Thus it works everywhere Sparc is.  http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/stuff/seamonkey_113_sun4m.png
[03:12:01] <dclarke> it has a hell of a dependency stack also
[03:12:10] <jamesd_> hmm.. dclarke is not british.. since its bloody it must use a red font or background then ;-)
[03:12:11] <e^ipi> take that, RAM
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[03:12:57] <dclarke> one processor is pegged to the floor
[03:13:04] <dclarke> the RAM is not too bad
[03:13:14] <dclarke> I am using OpenWindows so its very lightweight
[03:13:14] <nachox> wait till you start using it
[03:13:23] <dclarke> I am using it .. right now
[03:13:49] <nachox> you just started
[03:14:03] <dclarke> no .. I took that screenshot hours ago
[03:14:11] <dclarke> and I had GIMP runnign also
[03:14:32] <dclarke> between those two apps I can rest assured that every lib and dependency works also
[03:14:54] <dclarke> because both SeaMonkey and GIMP require a ton of things
[03:15:03] <dclarke> welcome to Blastwave blaot :-)
[03:15:09] <dclarke> bloat even
[03:15:29] <nachox> firefox does too?
[03:15:47] <dclarke> I never use FireFox but I could give it a try
[03:17:27] <dclarke> hrmm .. looks like New firefox-2.0.0.5 is released and I need to test it
[03:17:34] <dclarke> okay .. I'll install that now
[03:17:49] <dclarke> that will chew up one of the processors for a while but I still have three others
[03:17:54] <dclarke> so .. the mouse will respond
[03:18:58] <nachox> dclarke, yes, 2.0.0.5, /. has an article about a problem with it's pw manager and javascript :)
[03:19:19] <dclarke> oh bugger .. so it can not be released then
[03:19:28] <dclarke> I thought I saw something about that
[03:19:48] <dclarke> on the other hand .. this is the "stable" release from the firefox project and who are we to argue ?
[03:20:13] <nachox> users?
[03:20:24] <dclarke> yeah but .. its not our code
[03:20:42] <dclarke> and people whine continuously that they want the latest and the greatest
[03:20:43] <nachox> complaining is free, that's the beauty of it
[03:20:51] <dclarke> yeah .. it tis
[03:21:18] <dclarke> ooh .. I just opened a command tool ..
[03:21:25] <dclarke> anyone recall Command Tool ?
[03:22:21] <dclarke> works better than GNOME Terminal in my opinion
[03:22:48] <LeftWing> So do a bunch of other programs, though...
[03:23:02] <dclarke> like vi
[03:23:46] <dclarke> firefox - Firefox Community Edition web browser
[03:23:47] <dclarke> (sparc) 2.0.0.5,REV=2007.07.19
[03:23:56] <dclarke> installing now
[03:24:15] <dclarke> and gee .. CPU usage is now at about 15% to 20%
[03:25:57] <nachox> you had the specs file ready?
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[03:27:45] <dclarke> spec ? no .. this is in the svn system at Blastwave .. using GAR
[03:31:32] * dclarke reads http://www.linux.com/feature/118166
[03:33:01] <dclarke> Installation of <CSWfirefox> was successful.
[03:33:08] <nachox> read the full disclosure mail
[03:33:19] * FireflyST is anti-CSW
[03:33:38] <dclarke> nachox : I'm looking into it
[03:33:51] <dclarke> FireflyST : something I did to you ?
[03:33:55] <FireflyST> no
[03:34:00] <FireflyST> I know things I won't share.
[03:34:13] <nachox> please do
[03:34:18] <FireflyST> no, I will not.
[03:34:21] <dclarke> ah .. probably one of my missed DVD shipments or something like that
[03:34:28] <nachox> lol
[03:34:36] <dclarke> God knows that has been a nightmare lately
[03:34:56] <dclarke> I almost have the DVD creation down to a nightly script
[03:35:06] <dclarke> the idea being to simply post the DVD ISO images
[03:35:07] <FireflyST> just know that I refuse to run CSW apps on my machine because I suddenly consider them a risk.
[03:35:16] <dclarke> but .. no one wants to download a 4.2GB DVD ISO
[03:35:27] <nachox> dclarke, what did you do with all the equipment you had for the ppc based boxes?
[03:35:36] <dclarke> FireflyST : oh paaleeze .. everything is a risk
[03:35:45] <FireflyST> right.
[03:35:56] <richlowe> wha?
[03:35:59] <dclarke> nachox : I have three full systems in the corner loking at me
[03:36:14] <dclarke> richlowe : wha ?
[03:36:52] <nachox> dclarke, but from the pegasus guys? or whatever they are called
[03:38:03] <alanc> I thought everyone knew CSW really stood for Canadian Secret Weapon and they had backdoors in to let Canada take over the worlds computers, one Solaris box at a time (they even beat the NSA, who just got their backdoor leaked last week)
[03:38:12] <Tempt> FireflyST: If you have substantial reason to consider CSW packages compromised, spit out the details. If you can't spit out any details, keep your trap shut and save the bollocks for some other skript kiddie.
[03:38:58] * alanc will now go out to his car and set the CD player to "Blame Canada!"
[03:39:46] <nachox> alanc, that really brought back some south park memories
[03:39:51] * purserj has trouble deciding whether the version by Kyles Mum or Robin Williams was the better one
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[03:40:22] <jamesd_> fireflySt you are coming off as a troll, if you trust 500,000 lines of code written by a bunch of hackers with insuffient code review i dont see much difference between using that or blastwave.. in fact i trust  blastwave devs much more than i would mozilla's coders.
[03:40:41] * alanc-away forgot to note you can harass the compiler teams on Live Chat tomorrow:   http://blogs.sun.com/rvs/entry/sun_studio_and_sxde_live
[03:40:57] <nachox> purserj, "my way" from happy feet is really funny
[03:41:17] <purserj> nachox: heh yeah
[03:41:40] <purserj> for some reason, Robin Williams does really well when playing short, hairy/feathery things
[03:42:26] <nachox> alanc-away, you mean i can spem them with questions related to using gplv3 for their compilers?!
[03:42:28] <richlowe> alanc-away: Hrm, I wonder if that PS can be curtailed into make the DE rant on-topic.
[03:43:31] * dclarke thinks hard
[03:43:56] <dclarke> damn .. okay .. well now I need to at least consider the possibilities
[03:44:03] <FireflyST> I'm sorry guys I was just blowing smoke
[03:44:21] <FireflyST> I'm having a shitty time with my Solaris shit lately
[03:44:29] <dclarke> well .. no .. its okay .. I was having a similar discussion on the osol-discuss mailing list the other day
[03:44:35] <nachox> possibilities?
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[03:44:59] <dclarke> about how it may be possible to modify a compiler to create a access point in code without actually changeing the source code
[03:45:09] <dclarke> it is a worth while consideration
[03:46:31] <nachox> dclarke, there is a known story about that, the story talked about a C compiler that was modified to add a backdoor in the login binary and add the code to add the backdoor if it was compiling itself iirc
[03:47:12] <dclarke> nachox : yes .. that is the tale
[03:47:21] <dclarke> the point was made however and it is valid
[03:47:42] <nachox> the story was about trusting the code i think
[03:47:47] <dclarke> in order to really test for such things one needs a battery of people
[03:48:54] <dclarke> well .. this SeaMonkey build is working well but I really must just get away from it on sun4m
[03:49:44] <nachox> dclarke, when are you going to dump solaris 8 and move to 9 or 10 for your packages? :)
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[03:50:42] <dclarke> that is a toughie
[03:50:55] <dclarke> give me a minue or two to come back to that
[03:51:40] <dclarke> gotta close this window
[03:51:51] <dclarke> be back in a while with xchat I guess
[03:51:56] <dclarke> on sun4m no less
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[03:52:06] * FireflyST prefers irssi
[03:52:47] <nachox> i can live with either of those, i dont mind
[03:53:00] * FireflyST loves 'teh k0ns01e'
[03:53:05] <nachox> hell, i use gaim to irc at work
[03:53:43] <FireflyST> I use me a jabba console to get in from work
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[04:00:03] <axisys> anyone knows how to verify, as root, if the users ssh key has passphrase?
[04:00:35] <jamesd_> axisys, use the source, axisys  ;-)
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[04:00:53] <CIA-26> tomee: 6584345 add libm dependency to SUNWmdb
[04:02:14] <axisys> jamesd_: u mean ask openssh community?
[04:02:39] <jamesd_> no.. see how  ssh tells if it should prompt for a passwd.
[04:04:55] <axisys> jamesd_: i like to do it as part of a cronjob.. users allowed to use rsa key .. but i want to make sure as long as the key has a passphrase.. or advise the user otherwise
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[04:05:01] <nachox> how is that "the source"?
[04:05:24] <jamesd_> nachox, looking at the "source" code...
[04:07:27] <nachox> jamesd_, if you need to check the source code of ssh for that then youre not very efficient :)
[04:08:47] <nachox> ssh provides detailed output related to the connection and authentication phase iirc
[04:09:04] <nachox> altough i had problems last week with an aix and ssh keys
[04:09:20] <FireflyST> an aix?
[04:09:30] <FireflyST> you mean an aix machine?
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[04:10:28] <nachox> yes, an old aix box
[04:10:53] <e^ipi> how old?
[04:10:59] <spackest> so, I am trying to what I think would be pretty simple, which is get apache2, mod_perl and mysql all working from the same script
[04:11:02] <FireflyST> I just thought it funny you called it 'an aix'
[04:11:18] <spackest> I am trying to use coolstack, but I couldn't get DBD::mysql to build with it
[04:11:33] <nachox> i'm not sure, aix 4.3? not sure
[04:11:41] <spackest> anyone here work on coolstack?  cause to not include DBI and DBD::mysql seems a little silly
[04:11:44] <axisys> i just got this error in my sunray.. http://rafb.net/p/EYuyPp41.html
[04:11:56] <axisys> hmm  anyone knows what that meant?
[04:12:07] <moazamraja> does the T1000/T2000 have Raid Controller builtin?
[04:12:18] <Tempt> moaz: yes, LSI, mirror/stripe only.
[04:12:42] <moazamraja> ahh
[04:12:44] <spackest> oh, and the x2100 and x2200 not having built in raid seems like ten years behind, but maybe I am wrong :)
[04:12:46] <jamesd_> moazamraja, yes, we just converted a t2000 from vxvm  to  the on board raid.
[04:12:47] <moazamraja> didnt know that
[04:12:54] <FireflyST> I used to have an IBM RS/6000 43P-140 but I gave it to my friend
[04:12:57] <moazamraja> jamesd_: any guides/directions on that?
[04:13:11] <jamesd_> moazamraja, man raidctl
[04:13:27] <moazamraja> yeah...but we cant create the mirror
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[04:13:48] <moazamraja> it says the c0td0s0 is mounted already, etc.
[04:13:49] <jamesd_> http://www.curiousadmin.com/hardware_raid_on_t2000  <-- the obp method.
[04:14:00] <Tempt> Might as well just use SVM
[04:14:42] <jamesd_> tempt corprate pessedence says use  vxvm or hardware raid only for  mirrored root.
[04:14:51] <bda> Subject: [advocacy-discuss] OpenSolaris messenger bags.
[04:14:52] * bda stares.
[04:15:28] <Tempt> That's pretty weird.
[04:15:35] <nachox> i didnt know you could boot solaris from a vxvm volume
[04:15:37] <e^ipi> obviously, not having shitty merch is a significant barrier to entry for using Solaris
[04:15:42] <Tempt> Even Veritas tells you not to bother using VxVM for root mirrors these days.
[04:15:53] <Tempt> nachox: Certainly can.
[04:16:00] <Tempt> nachox: Certainly wouldn't do it by choice.
[04:16:07] <Tempt> anything lunchytime.
[04:16:16] <FireflyST> heh, OpenSolaris needs a shitty mascot too according to some people
[04:16:29] <bda> e^ipi: Yeah. Guess the From: and win an OpenSolaris bobblehead.
[04:16:36] <nachox> Tempt, what would you use svm?
[04:16:52] <e^ipi> shawn walker?
[04:16:58] <bda> Nosir.
[04:17:11] <e^ipi> sara dornsmithe ?
[04:17:14] <nachox> i would use a turtle just to give people another reason to use "slowaris" :P
[04:17:20] <bda> Now you're just making stuff up.
[04:17:25] <bda> (Gupta)
[04:17:26] <e^ipi> ? she's the marketing girl
[04:17:37] <richlowe> bda/e^ipi: s/smithe/sife/
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[04:17:48] <bda> aha
[04:17:49] <axisys> looks like there is a old bug http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/document.do?assetkey=1-1-1222143-1
[04:17:56] <axisys> with no workaround or fix
[04:17:57] <axisys> shit
[04:18:16] <axisys> the bug is from 2005
[04:18:29] <e^ipi> richlowe, drats.... was close though
[04:18:33] <e^ipi> she's nice.
[04:18:34] <FireflyST> OpenSolaris has a person in charger of marketing?
[04:18:50] <nachox> jim maybe?
[04:19:37] <FireflyST> is this the same 'sara' that made the OpenSolaris laptop stickers?
[04:20:02] <FireflyST> I hope so, because she was anti-mascot.
[04:20:37] <richlowe> I'd be in favour of a flying pig, or well, nothing.
[04:20:54] <FireflyST> goatse
[04:21:34] <FireflyST> now there's a mascot
[04:21:45] <FireflyST> or rather, maybe that's just what I think of mascots
[04:22:02] <e^ipi> plan9 has the rabbit thing
[04:22:11] <e^ipi> what eats penguins?
[04:22:12] <nachox> freebsd picked the last cool mascot available
[04:22:13] <e^ipi> we should use that
[04:22:18] <FireflyST> plan9's rabbit is freaking creepy
[04:22:31] <bda> e^ipi: Killer whales. Seals?
[04:22:31] <coffman> spackest: hardware raid is shit
[04:22:35] <nachox> i know, we should use eric cartman as the mascot!!
[04:22:36] <coffman> no one needs it
[04:22:39] <e^ipi> yeah, we should use that
[04:22:42] <coffman> i mean for boot disks
[04:22:58] <coffman> you might want to boot from your san
[04:23:08] <coffman> but not from a internal hardware raid
[04:23:11] <FireflyST> make a distro called rorflaris, with a seal mascot
[04:23:35] <sahafeez> i will make a distro called club to beat your distro
[04:24:32] <sahafeez> hum, i hate cable modems. the upload speed sucks.
[04:24:33] <e^ipi> Bucketaris
[04:25:14] <bda> Hexley++
[04:27:32] <FireflyST> the logo should be a tank
[04:27:53] * bda stills likes his starfish idea.
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[04:52:08] <Andromalius> Does opensolaris use ufs?
[04:52:22] <jamesd_> yes
[04:52:25] <soulie> yes
[04:52:26] <Andromalius> cool, thanks
[04:52:57] <soulie> ;o maby in futher only zfs?
[04:53:22] <nachox> doubt that, at last not in the short term
[04:53:41] <soulie> i get a warning  ar: not found
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[04:54:02] <soulie> is it hidden somewhere in opensolaris or never to be found anywahee
[04:54:07] <nachox> i think ar is in /usr/ucb/bin
[04:54:14] <jbk>  /usr/ccs/bin
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[04:54:27] <jbk> or i thought it was
[04:54:36] <jbk> guess not
[04:54:43] <soulie> jbk is right :)
[04:54:54] <jbk> oh there it is
[04:55:08] <soulie> :P nachox is wrong :(
[04:55:19] <soulie> :) had that already in my path anyway hihi
[04:55:20] <nachox> it happens
[04:55:27] <jbk> glad i'm not losing it :)
[04:55:35] <jbk> don't get to work with solaris anymore at work :(
[04:55:45] * soulie snuggles nachox for the effort but kisses goes to jbk
[04:55:56] <jbk> that's ok, i'll pass on those :)
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[05:00:45] <theRealballchalk> howdy
[05:00:58] <theRealballchalk> how can i display how much space a folder takes up on the disk?
[05:01:24] <jcsmith> theRealballchalk, du -sh DIR_NAME
[05:02:16] <theRealballchalk> jcsmith: thanks
[05:02:26] <jcsmith> no problem
[05:02:51] <nachox> if i want redundancy and a shared fs among 2 hosts i need qfs right?
[05:03:30] <richlowe> I thought cluster also had pxfs, that kind did the same thing via cheating slightly?
[05:05:18] <dlg> nachox: yes
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[05:12:03] <Teknomancer> morning all
[05:12:46] <soulie> morning!
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[05:19:30] <spackest> any thoughts on big zones versus small zones?
[05:19:47] <myrkraverk> erm, I noticed a bug in the website -- sort of
[05:19:54] <myrkraverk> is there a place to report that stuff?
[05:20:04] <richlowe> website-discuss@
[05:20:11] <richlowe> or the opensolaris/website bug cat.
[05:20:15] <richlowe> the former is probably better.
[05:20:30] <myrkraverk> hmm, yet another mailing list ;-P
[05:20:43] <e^ipi> you could throw it in to the abyss that is b.o.o.
[05:20:58] <richlowe> I'm not sure which groups of people pay attention to opensolaris/website
[05:21:02] <e^ipi> but you'd do just as well putting it in a bottle and throwing it the sea
[05:21:06] <richlowe> I know the b.o.o people most certainly don't, however.
[05:21:14] <richlowe> I think the os.org webapp people do, though.
[05:21:27] <myrkraverk> e^ipi, to report that http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/tools/linker/ links to wrong man pages?
[05:21:31] <e^ipi> by chance the bottle might wash ashore in california in front of a website engineer's feet and it'd get fixed
[05:21:43] <richlowe> myrkraverk: oh, tell tools-linking@
[05:21:48] <richlowe> or someone else who can fix that.
[05:22:16] <myrkraverk> richlowe, erm, who would that be?
[05:22:23] <myrkraverk> the someone else, that is?
[05:22:40] <richlowe> looking at it, just rod, so you may as well tell tools-linking@ or tools-discuss@
[05:24:41] <myrkraverk> ok
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[05:25:51] <soulie> where do i change the path so that the root sh finds ar
[05:26:34] <myrkraverk> richlowe, ok, will do
[05:27:06] <laserdrill> Hi all, just logged in
[05:27:11] <soulie> ./build/partial-install.sh: ar rs: not found no idea why
[05:27:33] <richlowe> ar is in /usr/ccs/bin
[05:27:46] <soulie> i know it whined for the earlies
[05:27:51] <soulie> adjusted the path ;o
[05:27:54] <laserdrill> soulie: are you trying to gmake something and got the error message that "ar:comand not found" or domething like that?
[05:28:46] <soulie> i just builded and maked alot of stuff for the ocaml
[05:28:53] <soulie> now did make install
[05:28:54] <laserdrill> I got that message last night trying to compile posgresql
[05:29:13] <soulie> ;o but the strange thing is it also whined in previous steps for ar
[05:29:18] <soulie> and i adjusted path
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[05:29:41] <soulie> then it went fine
[05:30:28] <laserdrill> Incidentally, I downloaded Sun Studio 12 with the sun download manager selecting the option to automatically install. it did not install
[05:31:27] <laserdrill> Can anyone say how i might install this app from the command line as it is, or do I have to download it again?
[05:31:36] <myrkraverk> tools-discuss@ it was
[05:32:27] <laserdrill> soulie:I did not adjust the path as I hd no idea what ar was let alone where to find it.
[05:32:48] <soulie> /usr/ccs/bin
[05:33:11] <soulie> ;p i know where it is that the annoying part xD
[05:33:20] <laserdrill> I am new to Solaris so that might be expected. What would help thoug is something that tells you what you need to install and where you might find them to get Solaris 10 useful.
[05:33:55] <soulie> hehe ;p opensolaris is faaaaaaaaaaar from finished
[05:34:11] <spackest> laserdrill: you looked at blastwave?
[05:34:31] <laserdrill> soulie: I'll adjust my path and try that gmake on Postgresql again
[05:34:34] <coffman> laserdrill: first off all you would need to know that this is the opensolaris channel, so it aims on opensolaris "distros" like sxce/de
[05:35:12] <coffman> laserdrill: you might always want to tell the peoople which version of soaris you are using
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[05:36:02] <laserdrill> Coffman: thanks for helping me as much as you did yesterday. I am listening to you, since you're obviously more knwledgeable than I am in this.
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[05:37:16] <laserdrill> spackest: yes, I looked at blastwave and downloaded a ton load of stuff from there.
[05:38:04] <coffman> laserdrill: for your studio problem, look up in the directory where it downloads, to install it do something like "bzcat $file_name_of_package | tar xf -"
[05:38:30] <laserdrill> Coffman:I did mention earlier, Solaris 10
[05:38:57] <coffman> laserdrill: then do in the directory ./installer which should give you the commandline installer
[05:40:02] <laserdrill> coffman: thanks., I'll try that. I am using file roller to extract the tarball again right now. it failed twice last night for reasons I don't yet know.
[05:40:23] <laserdrill> But still extracted some of the files
[05:41:34] <coffman> laserdrill: dont use roller, with the way i gave you the package will get uncompressed to the stdout and directly untard
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[05:43:08] <laserdrill> coffman: ok. I'll cancel it and try use your command.
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[05:48:19] <laserdrill> Coffman:I entered:bzcat $SunStudio12-solaris-x86-200705-pkg.tar.bz2 | tar xf - and it said bzcat: Bad flag `-solaris-x86-200705-pkg.tar.bz2'. What did i miss?
[05:48:47] <richlowe> you typed a $ where one shouldn't be.
[05:49:06] <laserdrill> coffman: ok
[05:49:17] <coffman> laserdrill: "$" was for marking that it is a var
[05:49:30] <coffman> laserdrill: remove it and you will be fine
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[05:50:57] <soulie> PATH=/usr/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/ucb:/usr/sfw/bin:/usr/ccs/bin      I have that in my .profile
[05:51:12] <soulie> if i do $PATH i get
[05:51:17] <soulie> $PATH
[05:51:17] <soulie> bash: /usr/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/ucb: No such file or directory
[05:51:25] <laserdrill> coffman: I'm running it rihgt now. I take it that the "-" after xf as you typed it should be there, right?
[05:51:26] <jmcp> it's a variable, you echo it
[05:51:26] <Teknomancer> printenv PATH
[05:51:50] <jmcp> soulie:     echo $PATH
[05:52:15] <soulie> $ echo $PATH
[05:52:15] <soulie> /usr/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/ucb
[05:52:20] <coffman> laserdrill: yes the "-" after xf has to be there
[05:52:29] <soulie> :( why doesnt it add the last directory
[05:52:38] <coffman> it tells tar to read from stdin
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[05:53:58] <laserdrill> coffman: this is the command i typed: bzcat SunStudio12-solaris-x86-200705-pkg.tar.bz2 | tar xf - . Its running - hasn't given any messages or anything but I thinks its running.
[05:54:22] <coffman> laserdrill: this can take a while
[05:54:43] <coffman> laserdrill: what kind of system you are at?
[05:54:50] <coffman> in means of hardware
[05:54:57] <soulie> installing sun studio took 7 mins here :P
[05:55:07] <soulie> on my celeron power wuhaha!
[05:55:10] <coffman> *sigh*
[05:55:24] <coffman> soulie: i did install it on my ultra 10 today
[05:55:33] <soulie> :)
[05:55:44] <coffman> but thats not my desktop
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[05:56:02] <soulie> ;p hehe i'm using my laptop to test out unix/linux
[05:56:09] <soulie> and then ona remote usb hard disk even ;p
[05:56:22] <soulie> the grub puzzle was a nightmare ;p
[05:56:27] <laserdrill> coffman: I am running a p4 with just under 512MB ram
[05:56:40] <coffman> laserdrill: with jds?
[05:56:47] <andyshack> ah, if the health status of my zfs pool is ONLINE can i assume that none of the drives in there are 100% dead ?
[05:57:10] <coffman> andyshack: to be sure, do a scrub
[05:57:29] <andyshack> ok cool, thanks.
[05:57:51] <jmcp> andyshack: "zpool status -v" will give you a report on errors
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[05:58:14] <laserdrill> coffman:I am not familiar with jds. This is running gnome and i have the JDK that comes with Solaris 10 installed as well as the last two releases of JRE
[05:58:48] <coffman> laserdrill: jds is gnome... and 512mb is realy low
[05:58:59] <coffman> laserdrill: you should get atleast 512mb more
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[06:00:24] <andyshack> errors: No known data errors <-- thats what i wanted to see thanks :)
[06:00:25] <laserdrill> I am prepared to invest in both hardware and solaris as much as I can, but i need to get it to do one thing first - run the ADempiere accounting package
[06:00:29] <CIA-26> maybee: 6453407 rm a file when the root file system is at its quota limit reports ENOSPC, 6483887 without direct management, arc ghost lists can run amok, 6557767 assertion failed: error == 17 || lr->lr_length <= zp->z_blksz, 6577156 zfs_putapage discards pages too easily, 6581978 assertion failed: koff <= filesz, file: ../../common/fs/zfs/zfs_vnops.c, line: 2834, 6582642 cannot set property while quota exceed or really out of space, 6583710 asserti
[06:02:48] <coffman> laserdrill: well, 512mb more ram is not a big invest and you will profit from it anyways, for solaris there is no need for a big invest unless you want to use it in a company or something
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[06:04:59] <laserdrill> coffman; I hope to persuade some business people to use Solaris (unix) or linux for their servers and might be able to do it if i can show them a fully running system. I prefer solaris for the accounting idea but never thought it would be this difficult to get a demo up and running
[06:05:59] <laserdrill> coffman: I do agree about the memory, I'll deal with that.
[06:06:38] <coffman> laserdrill: yeah, right on that
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[06:09:22] <laserdrill> coffman: I must tell you, I really love this stuff and love to learn and contribute as much as I can!
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[06:12:17] <coffman> laserdrill: could you point me at the build manuel of adempiere?
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[06:12:29] <soulie> hello again ;p
[06:12:51] <soulie> is there a .profile somewhere to change the default root $PATH
[06:13:21] <laserdrill> Coffman: please confirm for me. The extraction of Sun Studio is donw and now I see a folder named "LEGAl SS12" and another named "Intel-install-S2" (there are other downloads in this folder) are these the ones i should have?
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[06:15:01] <coffman> laserdrill: there should be a bunch of other stuff. batch_installer installer prepare_system
[06:15:23] <laserdrill> coffman: this is the link I found: http://www.adempiere.com/wiki/index.php/How_to_Run_ADempiere_on_OpenSoalris
[06:16:15] <coffman> laserdrill: cd in the folder and run ./installer
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[06:18:56] <dclarke> I return
[06:19:38] <dclarke> what is the fastest UltraSparc processor?  Do we have 2.2 GHz yet ?
[06:19:47] <coffman> dclarke: hey
[06:19:55] <dclarke> hey
[06:20:16] <laserdrill> coffman: I dont understand it, neither folder has install in it!
[06:20:21] * dclarke goes to look at Sunsolve
[06:21:19] <coffman> laserdrill: the base folder in that you have extract it should contain a script installer
[06:21:20] <laserdrill> I'm going to copy the tarball to a folder by itself and try again.
[06:21:35] <coffman> laserdrill: change in the folder, and run ./installer
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[06:24:12] <laserdrill> coffma: I did but nothing happened. I tried with both folders then in the intel-install folder there is an install sub-folder but ./install did not work there either.
[06:24:15] <coffman> dclarke: what kind of build systems you are using for blastwave?
[06:24:25] <dclarke> a wide range
[06:24:38] <dclarke> from Sparc 20 up to AMD Opteron
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[06:24:46] <dclarke> whatever I can toss in the rack
[06:24:56] <coffman> laserdrill: you need to go in the base folder, where tar file also is
[06:25:13] <coffman> dclarke: where is your stuff hosted?
[06:25:21] <dclarke> here
[06:25:22] <coffman> all the servers etc
[06:25:29] <dclarke> or at least real near by
[06:25:38] <dclarke> yes .. all the servers .. power .. cooling
[06:25:40] <dclarke> all of it
[06:25:45] <axisys> i am stuck here.. ipfilter wont compile.. http://rafb.net/p/3FVfhg11.html
[06:25:53] <coffman> so you got your own server room etc?
[06:25:58] <dclarke> yes
[06:26:14] <coffman> ic
[06:26:19] <axisys> i am trying to compile on sol 8
[06:26:30] <axisys> pfil 2.1.7 compiled fine
[06:26:37] <dclarke> axisys : recent edition of ipfilter ?
[06:26:46] <coffman> dclarke: i was asking who i can beg for hosting and build systems :P
[06:26:57] <dclarke> coffman : oh
[06:27:00] <axisys> but ip_file 4.1.17 or 4.1.24 failed to compile
[06:27:03] <dclarke> coffman : what do you need ?
[06:27:12] <axisys> dclarke: yes
[06:27:30] <dclarke> axisys : well .. this may be a good time to drop into the ipfilter mail list
[06:27:42] <dclarke> axisys : Darren Reed is quite helpful
[06:27:54] <axisys> i tried to compile w/ gcc 3.4.2 and gcc 3.4.6
[06:28:07] <axisys> dclarke: ok
[06:28:08] <coffman> dclarke: well, oxygene does pmpkg and i try to help him on this, but atm we have only our desktops for this job
[06:28:20] <dclarke> coffman : what do you need ?
[06:28:30] <coffman> dclarke: only sparc system i have around is a ultra 10, which is realy slow
[06:28:37] <dclarke> coffman : that sucks
[06:28:56] <dclarke> coffman : okay .. so you guys need access to the build stack and some disk apce etc etc
[06:28:57] <coffman> dclarke: decent sparc system with >solaris 10
[06:29:19] <dclarke> coffman : oh .. you need snv_64 and up eh ?
[06:29:37] <dclarke> coffman : hrmmm ... let me see what I can dig up
[06:29:42] <coffman> dclarke: recent solaris 10 would be okay
[06:29:51] <dclarke> that I have
[06:29:55] <dclarke> it in the stack
[06:30:08] <dclarke> patched and up to date and with Studio 11 on it
[06:30:18] <dclarke> Studio 12 also .. I think
[06:30:35] <dclarke> as well as AMD Opterons with Sol 10 Update 3
[06:30:42] <andyshack> can labeling disks that complain of corrupt labels easily bork my filesystem/s?
[06:30:53] <dclarke> drop me an email at dclarke at blastwave dot org
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[06:31:11] <dclarke> coffman :  I'll see what I can do
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[06:31:29] <coffman> dclarke: well atm i try to get the things together to make the stuff more serious, can take 1 -2 months i guess
[06:32:04] <dclarke> uh huh
[06:32:11] <dclarke> so .. there is no rush then ?
[06:32:14] <coffman> dclarke: thx for the offer anyways, will write you on it for sure
[06:32:26] <dclarke> please do
[06:32:31] <coffman> rush is not to bad
[06:32:42] <dclarke> I know that there are a few people that I host systems for as well as create zones for
[06:32:54] <dclarke> its just what I do if I can
[06:33:34] <coffman> dclarke: so what are your plans for blastwave and his future? how is the opening going?
[06:33:53] <dclarke> slow and steady
[06:34:06] <dclarke> I have been up to my ears in business stuff too
[06:34:18] <dclarke> hopefully I can find more time to be of use to the project
[06:34:31] <dclarke> tonight I want to start off a GCC 4.2.1 build
[06:34:32] <coffman> ic
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[06:35:40] <axisys> hmm .. i have exact same problem.. but no one answered http://marc.info/?l=ipfilter&m=118131978601390&w=2
[06:35:47] <dclarke> I have to build binutils-2.17 first
[06:36:20] <dclarke> I saw that fly by recently
[06:36:28] <dclarke> the ipfilter issue I mean
[06:37:05] <dclarke> ick .. looks like some badly written source code
[06:37:14] <laserdrill> coffman: it appears that i have to use the batch instaler to install Sun Studio 12 on Solaris 10. i am readin gup how to do it now.
[06:38:18] <dclarke> axisys :  this is happening with IPFilter 4.1.24 eh ?
[06:39:05] <dclarke> axisys : I was just looking at http://coombs.anu.edu.au/~avalon/
[06:39:20] <axisys> dclarke: yep
[06:39:22] <dclarke> axisys :  I know that the official releases in Solaris 10 are back qite a few revs
[06:39:33] <axisys> i am using sol 8
[06:39:36] <axisys> yep
[06:40:08] <dclarke> axisys : I had asked Darren if he were interested in doing the package at Blastwave for distribution out to the public but he informs me that ipfilter needs to be recompiled for various kernel revs
[06:40:15] <dclarke> it would be impossible to maintain
[06:40:33] <dclarke> for any given machine and kernel rev one needs to compile it right there
[06:40:47] <dclarke> except I tend to use Studio 8 or Studio 11 etc
[06:40:50] <dclarke> if possible
[06:41:08] <dclarke> you are working on Solaris 8 so .. whats your kernel rev ?
[06:41:11] <axisys> making pkg for ipfile and pfil is easy
[06:41:16] <axisys> just run make pkg on the src
[06:41:20] <axisys> and walla
[06:41:26] <axisys> make package that is
[06:41:41] <axisys> ofcourse assuming it does not fail to compile ;-)
[06:41:42] <dclarke> well .. I must be mistaken
[06:41:49] <jmcp> axisys: voila, not "walla"
[06:41:52] <jmcp> sheeeesh
[06:41:53] <coffman> dclarke: boost builds for over 5 hours now Oo
[06:42:02] <axisys> jmcp: hehe .. voila .. :P
[06:42:15] <dclarke> jmcp : I don't think he is french
[06:42:24] <jmcp> and most definitely *not* viola - that's a larger form of a violin
[06:42:27] <dclarke> jmcp : do you ever login to that server I set up ?
[06:42:33] <jmcp> dclarke: not that I recall, no
[06:42:48] <dclarke> jmcp : maybe I have the wrong person
[06:42:53] <jmcp> possible
[06:47:39] <laserdrill> coffman: I am running the batch_installer with some options, one to prepare system with the "all" switch and the --accpet-sla flag. it seems to be running, no msg yet.
[06:50:04] <axisys> dclarke: is there a sun studio that will run on solaris 8
[06:50:11] <dclarke> yes
[06:50:18] <axisys> casper suggested use sun cc instead
[06:50:18] <dclarke> Sun ONE Studio 8
[06:50:27] <axisys> dclarke: not free right?
[06:50:28] <dclarke> that is what I use
[06:50:41] <dclarke> ummm .. gee .. you need a license key
[06:51:02] <dclarke> but when you install it there is a free 90 day license key created
[06:51:05] <axisys> dclarke: u dont have a ipfilter pkg for sol 8 in blastwave do u?
[06:51:16] * dclarke sighs
[06:51:20] <dclarke> no .. not yet
[06:51:37] <dclarke> that was one of the things Darren and I were talking about recently
[06:51:47] <axisys> dclarke: so will my compiled binary stop working after 90 days?
[06:51:58] <dclarke> no .. of course not
[06:52:03] <dclarke> but the compiler will
[06:52:08] <axisys> dclarke: this is what i followed.. http://www.brandonhutchinson.com/Installing_IP_Filter.html
[06:52:24] <axisys> dclarke: ok
[06:52:39] <dclarke> wow .. seems like we are following the same circles
[06:52:54] <axisys> dclarke: heh
[06:52:56] <dclarke> been there .. done that .. but am busy with GCC 4.2.1 at the moment
[06:53:13] <axisys> dclarke: sure.. let me try w/ Sun ONE Studio 8
[06:53:27] <dclarke> it is still a free download .. somewhere
[06:53:50] <axisys> dclarke: not in sun. says not available
[06:54:00] <Teknomancer> opensolaris 10 is the latest one right ?
[06:54:09] <jmcp> no\
[06:54:16] <laserdrill> coffman: have you been able to take a look at the ADempiere wiki?
[06:54:27] <jmcp> Teknomancer: there's Solaris 10, OpenSolaris, Solaris Express ....
[06:54:31] <jmcp> Solaris 10 is a released product
[06:54:36] <jmcp> Teknomancer: what's your real question?
[06:55:03] <Teknomancer> #if defined(HOST_SOLARIS) && (( HOST_SOLARIS <= 9 ) || ( ( HOST_SOLARIS >= 10 ) && ( __GNUC__ <= 4) ))
[06:55:29] <Teknomancer> how do i find out which version i'm running? uname ?
[06:55:42] <jmcp> uname -r
[06:55:47] <Teknomancer> ok thanks
[06:55:52] <jmcp> on my snv_62 system, uname -r prints "5.11"
[06:55:53] <laserdrill> coffman: Ah, install seems complete withis message" Java Accessibility Bridge for GNOME loaded.
[06:56:02] <jmcp> so you'll need some futzing :)
[06:56:03] <Teknomancer> 5.11 here too
[06:56:21] <jmcp> laserdrill: that's a banner message printed when java starts up for some apps
[06:56:26] <jmcp> it's a pain and it shouldn't be there
[06:56:29] <Teknomancer> jmcp:  hehe yes i'm just wondering there should be some standard exported define usually
[06:57:04] <jmcp> Teknomancer: nope, not that I'm aware of
[06:57:15] <Teknomancer> oh
[06:57:35] <jmcp> is this a driver or in userspace?
[06:57:57] <coffman> laserdrill: adempiere it self seems to be java
[06:58:03] <coffman> laserdrill: but it need PL/Java
[06:58:11] <Teknomancer> userspace
[06:58:31] <jmcp> then you really shouldn't need to worry about the kernel's version
[06:58:37] <coffman> laserdrill: solaris ships with postgress these days, gnu make and gcc is also there
[06:58:48] <laserdrill> jmcp: Thanks. I am back at the command prompt. How do I check to see whether Sun Studio 12 has been successfully installed?
[06:58:50] <jmcp> unless you depend upon some bug which has been fixed
[06:59:01] <jmcp> laserdrill: ls -lart /opt/SUNWspro/bin/cc ; /opt/SUNWspro/bin/cc -V
[06:59:29] <Teknomancer> jmcp:  yes the comment says something about a bug workaround... thanks.
[06:59:43] <laserdrill> jmcp: thanks. i'll try that.
[06:59:44] <jmcp> laserdrill: ss12 won't build opensolaris, btw, and ss12 shows up as "cc: Sun C 5.9"
[06:59:53] <jmcp> laserdrill: ss11 shows up as "cc: Sun C 5.8"
[07:01:23] <laserdrill> jmcp: syas no such file or directory!
[07:01:53] <jmcp> laserdrill: did you accept the default installation path?
[07:02:22] <laserdrill> jmcp:yes
[07:02:46] <jmcp> you could also try    pkginfo -l SPROcc
[07:03:25] <laserdrill> jmcp:This is what I typed: bash-3.00# ./batch_installer -p all --accept-sla
[07:03:54] <laserdrill> except the bash part of course
[07:05:07] <laserdrill> jmcp:bash-3.00# pkginfo -l SPROcc ERROR: information for "SPROcc" was not found
[07:05:22] <laserdrill> I don't think it worked.
[07:05:37] <laserdrill> The install I mean
[07:05:48] <jmcp> brb
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[07:09:04] <jmcp> laserdrill: I think you're correct
[07:10:21] <WickedWicky> good morning ladies and gents
[07:12:47] <laserdrill> jmcp: I see hwat is happening /opt is down to 700mb although i have 30GB space remaining. Can I change the space available to /opt?
[07:13:10] <coffman> uhm
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[07:13:31] <galt> that's why you use zpools
[07:13:33] <coffman> laserdrill: did you made an extro fs for opt?
[07:14:06] <laserdrill> no, I have a default setup
[07:15:09] <laserdrill> could I put it /opt the /export folder and sym-link to it from /
[07:15:15] <galt> ouch, no wonder you're boned
[07:15:26] * coffman hides somewhere
[07:16:21] <laserdrill> Darm. Its like I announced a bomb threat !
[07:17:28] <laserdrill> galt: I am not familiar with zpools
[07:17:59] <galt> zfs, learn it, love it, live it
[07:19:18] <laserdrill> galt: will definitely look at it. in the mean time what is likely to happen if iinstall SS12 to another folder than the default?
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[07:21:36] <jmcp> laserdrill: use a loopback mount for /opt, otherwise pkgadd will kill you
[07:22:16] <laserdrill> jmcp: Ok. How do I do that?
[07:22:32] <e^ipi> man lofiadm
[07:23:03] <laserdrill> thanks e^ipi
[07:23:12] <jmcp> e^ipi: not as such, no
[07:23:25] <jmcp> laserdrill: you need to read the manpage for lofs
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[07:26:38] * jmcp pedants
[07:26:52] <jmcp> we talk about directories in unix, rather than folders
[07:29:44] <laserdrill> jmcp: Ok. I am rading the manpages for lofiadm but I'm not too comfortable with it.
[07:29:48] <LeftWing> We certainly do.
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[07:34:15] <laserdrill> jmcp lofs looks promising
[07:34:37] <laserdrill> I think I'll give it a shot
[07:35:04] <jmcp> good idea
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[07:41:44] <laserdrill> jmcp: This is what I hve done and it seems to work: bash-3.00# mkdir /export/opt bash-3.00# mkdir /export/home/opt bash-3.00# mount -F lofs /opt /export/home/opt
[07:42:24] <jmcp> good
[07:42:38] <galt> you lost me4 at bash-3.00#
[07:42:59] <jmcp> so in your /etc/vfstab, you need a line like this:                            /export/opt    -       /opt       lofs    -       yes     -
[07:43:06] <laserdrill> I will try the installation of SS12 again, otherwise i guess I'll have to reinstall Soalris 10, change the partition sizes and redo everything
[07:43:30] <jmcp> laserdrill: setup the lofs mount before you re-do the installation
[07:43:43] <laserdrill> There is nothing in thevfstab file so I did not add anything
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[07:44:42] <laserdrill> I have set it up and I can see the directories now in /opt in /export/home/opt
[07:46:20] <laserdrill> jmcp: do put that line you suggested in vfstab? I haven't put anything there as i don't know what to put there, i must admit
[07:47:00] <jmcp> yes, you should put that line in /etc/vfstab, otherwise when you boot your system again, the mount will not be performed and you'll wonder wtf your compiler has disappeared to
[07:47:47] <laserdrill> jmcp: thanks. doing it now.
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[07:50:18] <laserdrill> jmcp: the directory i created was /export/home/opt, i imagine that is what I should use and not /export/opt as you have it
[07:50:48] <jmcp> yeah
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[07:57:36] <laserdrill> jmcp: Ok, and I was doing it wrong, there are entries in the real vfstab file so i put this one at the bottom.
[07:58:01] <laserdrill>  /export/home/opt    -       /opt       lofs    -       yes     -
[07:58:27] <laserdrill> trying the installation of SS12 again
[08:04:04] <laserdrill> unfortunately, /export/home/opt now had the same 700MB even though /export/home has 30GB
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[08:06:46] <jmcp> laserdrill: you're not making much sense to me
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[08:11:33] <cmihai> Well, a broken boot archive sure is fun.
[08:11:42] <Tempt> It sure is.
[08:11:56] <WickedWicky> especialy on the start of your day
[08:12:00] <cmihai> Powerout seems to have caused it...
[08:12:01] <WickedWicky> hey all
[08:12:06] <cmihai> WickedWicky: yeah, that's how I started my day :P
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[08:12:42] <Tempt> It's actually a sneaky Sun tactic. They get you hooked on Solaris/x86 and then get you over to SPARC with the whole boot archive thing.
[08:12:55] <WickedWicky> lol
[08:12:58] <WickedWicky> sounds plausible
[08:13:27] <richlowe> certain files need to be in sync between the two, failsafe boot will give you the option to rebuild it.
[08:13:27] <cmihai> Oh well, at least the thing rebuilt and the server *seems* to work fine.
[08:13:34] <richlowe> (I missed the question, so that's somewhat of a guess at the answer)
[08:14:15] <WickedWicky> did anyone suffer from spontanious reboots after upgrading to on69?
[08:14:53] <richlowe> do you have crash dumps in /var/crash/<hostname>/?
[08:15:01] <richlowe> "spontaneous reboot" tends to mean panic.
[08:15:02] <WickedWicky> cant tell you right now since it's down again
[08:15:07] <richlowe> which should have dumps.
[08:15:13] <WickedWicky> I'll check when i'm at home
[08:15:24] <WickedWicky> which is probably in 15 hours, hoorah
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[08:18:59] <WickedWicky> so my mission for today is to find a floppy drive which i can borrow for a day, find out why my server reboots/panics and to find a store that sells IDE controllers without RAID bios and Silicone Image 680 chipset
[08:19:22] <WickedWicky> 8:19am and already a todo list, dont you hate that?
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[08:24:16] <cmihai> WickedWicky: why do you need a floppy?
[08:24:27] <WickedWicky> to flash the Silicon Image controller to a non-raid bios
[08:24:35] <cmihai> Oh...
[08:24:39] <cmihai> An ATA controller?
[08:24:42] <WickedWicky> yeppers
[08:24:44] <cmihai> For what, a DVD-ROM?
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[08:24:51] <WickedWicky> nope, hard disks
[08:24:56] <cmihai> ERm..
[08:25:02] <cmihai> So why not SCSI or SATA? Or SAS :-]
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[08:25:16] <dlg> cmihai: cost?
[08:25:18] <WickedWicky> well, if i had SCSI/SATA money
[08:25:23] <cmihai> Cost?
[08:25:26] <WickedWicky> but I went to the gucci store in amsterdam last weekend
[08:25:27] <WickedWicky> :P
[08:25:29] <cmihai> SATA should be roughly the same price.
[08:25:40] <cmihai> WickedWicky: oh, fashion boy hey? :P
[08:25:41] <WickedWicky> well yes but why do that when you have the controllers and disks already?
[08:25:52] <cmihai> A fileserver and mount NFS? :P
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[08:26:27] <WickedWicky> that'd kinda take the charm away of having destroyed linux from the very machine I installed solaris on, now wouldnt it? :P
[08:26:46] <cmihai> Eh?
[08:26:57] <cmihai> What, can't you install Solaris on your fileservers? :P
[08:27:06] <WickedWicky> not if I cant use these controllers, nope
[08:27:09] <cmihai> Anyway, if you find a supported ATA controller.. this is SPARC right?
[08:27:20] <WickedWicky> nope, this is an AMD 2400XP+
[08:27:23] <WickedWicky> x86
[08:27:26] <coffman> WickedWicky: you can burn a cd from a floppy image
[08:27:45] <cmihai> WickedWicky: umh.. won't that already have 4 or so ATA ports?
[08:27:46] <WickedWicky> oh that's a good idea!
[08:27:55] <WickedWicky> cmihai: yes, two via, which work
[08:27:58] <WickedWicky> 2 promise, which dont work
[08:28:03] <cmihai> Oh ;-)
[08:28:10] <cmihai> Promise... do they have that fakeraid bullshit?
[08:28:29] <WickedWicky> yes but I disabled that in the BIOS, it's acting as normal ATA controller
[08:28:38] <coffman> cmihai: promise promise you data lose
[08:28:45] <cmihai> lol so true
[08:28:55] <WickedWicky> I got told not to use the promise controller, and i follow the advices I get here
[08:28:55] <cmihai> That's all they do: Promise.
[08:29:08] <cmihai> WickedWicky: yeah, good choice, promise is crap on a stick.
[08:29:11] <WickedWicky> most ATA controllers are fake-raid, no?
[08:29:16] <WickedWicky> it's all raid-in-driver
[08:29:17] <cmihai> All?
[08:29:35] <cmihai> What's the point of real RAID with ATA disks anyway
[08:29:52] <coffman> who needs hardware raid anyways?
[08:30:03] <cmihai> Yeah, volume managers are so much more fun.
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[08:30:10] <coffman> zfs ftw
[08:30:13] <WickedWickeh> yes
[08:30:25] <coffman> cmihai: bah i dont need scsi
[08:30:51] <WickedWickeh> these silicon image 680s are not really hardware raid either
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[08:32:04] <WickedWickeh> I have an AAA-RAID controller in my room, somewhere but I dont have scsi disks for it
[08:32:39] <WickedWickeh> and an old Asus dual P2 motherboard with SCSI on it, would be fun to see if that'd work
[08:32:56] <cmihai> Probably Adaptec SCSI-2
[08:32:57] <Tempt> Just chock up a pile of SATA drives and use raidz.
[08:33:06] <cmihai> Yeah
[08:33:19] <cmihai> You can get 6 1TB disks ffs ;P
[08:33:43] <WickedWickeh> haha
[08:34:08] <coffman> no point of using scsi, for the extra price you get more and bigger disks which lead to better speed
[08:34:19] <WickedWickeh> I guess that's true
[08:34:59] <coffman> scsi for bootdisks or database is oki
[08:35:00] <WickedWickeh> *sigh* the only good part about this bus ride to the office is the cute girl that I see every day
[08:35:29] <coffman> WickedWicky: ask her out, but use a condom
[08:35:38] <WickedWickeh> well, sata controllers cost nothing these days either
[08:35:41] <WickedWickeh> coffman: lol
[08:36:12] <coffman> WickedWickeh: what? :P
[08:36:33] <WickedWickeh> I think she's sort of out of my league
[08:37:03] <coffman> pah
[08:37:08] <coffman> she rides the bus dude
[08:37:22] <WickedWickeh> now that's an interesting point
[08:37:30] <jmcp> hawtchix ride buses too
[08:37:46] <coffman> im doing that to, but i live in germany!
[08:37:59] <WickedWickeh> so? I live next to you
[08:38:10] <coffman> oh
[08:38:18] <WickedWickeh> netherlands
[08:38:19] <WickedWickeh> :D
[08:38:24] <coffman> ah
[08:38:50] <coffman> WickedWickeh: get some E's the girls like it :P
[08:39:11] <WickedWickeh> sec
[08:39:11] <WickedWickeh> :p
[08:39:43] <WickedWickeh> talking about E, I was at a house party two weeks ago.. I dont think most of the girls there even realised they existed at that moment
[08:40:36] <coffman> heh
[08:41:05] <coffman> im not going to parties anymore, im to old (23) :P
[08:41:48] <coffman> only to dnb parties or old school techno
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[08:42:44] <WickedWickeh> LOL
[08:42:47] <WickedWickeh> what do you mean?
[08:42:48] <WickedWickeh> I am 28
[08:43:11] <WickedWickeh> but I've got ADHD, so maybe I am cheating energy wise
[08:43:20] <WickedWickeh> and E wont do me good, it will make me sleepy instead of more active
[08:43:29] <WickedWickeh> but I remember once.. when I was 23
[08:43:31] <WickedWickeh> *sigh*
[08:43:36] <WickedWickeh> young and innocent
[08:43:45] <coffman> heh, im not doing the E never had never will
[08:43:59] <WickedWickeh> better that way
[08:44:16] <coffman> and my doc can give me better shit on prescription :P
[08:44:35] <WickedWickeh> well, I have concerta (alternative for ritalin)
[08:44:36] <WickedWickeh> that's good enough for me
[08:44:52] <WickedWickeh> and when I go to a party I take two sugar cubes and can go on for 12 hours
[08:44:55] <cmihai> Bah, you Americans and your drugs.
[08:44:56] <WickedWickeh> I mean real sugar
[08:44:59] <WickedWickeh> dudette
[08:45:00] <WickedWickeh>  am dutch
[08:45:01] <cmihai> "OH noes, I've got some finctional disease"
[08:45:08] <cmihai> ADHD my ass ;-]
[08:45:09] <WickedWickeh> I am dutch
[08:45:15] <WickedWickeh> not american
[08:45:18] <cmihai> You're dutch?
[08:45:19] <WickedWickeh> yes
[08:45:20] <cmihai> Oh, sorry.
[08:45:24] <cmihai> That IS a disease :-)
[08:45:29] <purserj> cmihai: your arse is suffering from attention deficit?
[08:45:29] <WickedWickeh> HEY NOW!
[08:45:30] <WickedWickeh> :p
[08:45:30] <coffman> WickedWickeh: do you know the "dorian gray" club in frankfurt
[08:45:33] <coffman> ?
[08:45:37] <WickedWickeh> nopes
[08:45:52] <purserj> Might I suggest a little excercise and something more attractive, might get it more attention
[08:45:58] <coffman> to bad, its closed for a couple of years now :(
[08:46:07] <cmihai> purserj: gee.
[08:46:24] <WickedWickeh> the only big thing I know in germany is this huge anual party in hangars
[08:46:36] <cmihai> WickedWickeh: oh man, I read anual as... well..
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[08:46:44] <WickedWickeh> I was afraid of that :P
[08:46:55] <coffman> WickedWickeh: which?
[08:47:05] <WickedWickeh> purserj: solaris talk will start after 9am
[08:47:41] <WickedWickeh> isnt it Defcon?
[08:47:46] <purserj> WickedWickeh: its almost 5pm here so I'm way ahead of you
[08:47:52] <WickedWickeh> oh
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[08:50:03] <coffman> WickedWicky: check this out http://www.cocoonclub.net/main/en_swf.jsp sven vaeths club
[08:50:10] <WickedWicky> ok so let's see if this gets purserj's attention
[08:50:17] <WickedWicky> where would I be able to buy a cheap sparc driven box?
[08:50:22] <laserdrill> coffman/jmcp: given the problem I am having with running out of space on /opt on my Solaris 10 box, i can install another HDD in the machine. The idea is to mount /opt on that drive. What command(s) would i use, or where can I read up the instructions to do this?
[08:50:39] <purserj> in Australia?
[08:50:52] <WickedWicky> in general
[08:51:09] <Tempt> WickedWicky: Ebay
[08:51:10] <purserj> ebay?
[08:51:54] <WickedWicky> laserdrill: devfsadm , format, newfs, mount
[08:51:59] <purserj> unfortunately haven't seen one of SUNs Datacentre in a box things on ebay, but its only a matter of time I guess
[08:52:00] <Tempt> laserdrill: Get a new drive. Install it. Do a reconfiguration boot or a devfsadm. Use format to slice it. newfs it. mount it. move all your /opt stuff onto it. remount it on /opt. update vfstab.
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[08:52:39] <WickedWicky> coffman: looks like somehting I should check out :D
[08:52:50] <Tempt> laserdrill: *or* Get a new drive. install it. Do a reconfiguration boot or a devfsadm. Use zpool to create a pool on it. Use zfs to create a filesystem on your pool. Move all your /opt stuff onto it and then use zfs set mountpoint=/opt as needed.
[08:53:38] <coffman> WickedWicky: would say one of the greatest clubs in europe, pa had cost around 2mil euros
[08:53:55] <coffman> WickedWicky: all the walls are back-lighted
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[08:55:43] <WickedWicky> awesome
[08:55:57] <Tempt> Nifty.
[08:56:10] <Tempt> Melbourne's nightlife has gone downhill lately.
[08:56:24] <Tempt> By lately I mean the last two years have sunk even lower.
[08:56:51] <Tempt> Everything's turned into either hiphop shit or commercial dance shit.
[08:57:00] <laserdrill> Thanks. I'm writing this down. does zfs come in solaris 10? I thought I read where it does not, or that something I'd download from blastwave?
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[08:57:16] <gdamore> depends on the version.  recent updates have zfs.
[08:57:28] <gdamore> i don't think it was part of the original S10 ship though.
[08:57:45] <Tempt> If your Solaris 10 doesn't include ZFS, your Solaris 10 is too old and needs an update! ;)
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[08:57:57] <Tempt> I think a full patch run using pca should add zfs support in somewhere.
[08:58:00] <jmcp> laserdrill: /opt needs to be a mountpoint, either with lofs or ufs or zfs
[08:58:03] <gdamore> updates 2 and later at least have it.  i *think* it was introduced in update 1.
[08:58:53] <coffman> i hope dubstep takes over to germany soon
[08:59:02] <laserdrill> I downloaded it about a month now, installed it but only now geting into learning and using it
[09:00:32] <WickedWicky> that should have ZFS then I think
[09:02:18] <laserdrill> how can I check if it has zfs?
[09:02:31] <dlg> run "which zfs"
[09:03:57] <laserdrill> dig: Yep! bash-3.00# which zfs /usr/sbin/zfs
[09:04:24] <laserdrill> Thanks a lot for helping.
[09:07:57] <laserdrill> its cute to hear the term pool again in IT. Last time I heard it ws in the late 1980's when I was working with an old ICL system 25 mini !
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[09:24:49] <sickness> morning all
[09:28:20] <trygvis> hi
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[10:06:50] <phips> mornin
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[10:25:43] <quasi> morning
[10:26:13] <Doc> no
[10:27:20] <trygvis> quasi: /dev/dsk/c0d0s0 on / type ufs read/write/setuid/devices/intr/largefiles/logging/xattr/onerror=panic/dev=1980000 on Mon Jul 23 22:50:36 2007
[10:27:23] <trygvis> seems like it is logging
[10:28:42] <quasi> trygvis: yeah, it does
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[10:41:31] * quasi takes an extra look - du -hs in / has /proc as  330G in size
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[10:43:49] <cmihai> Erm, my serial seems to be frozen on Solaris or something.
[10:44:05] <cmihai> I was connected to a Cisco, then it just froze.. now it says all ports are busy, lsof shows nothing..
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[10:46:19] <palowoda> Cisco moved to Canada so you can blame them. :)
[10:46:42] <cmihai> Nah, it's Solaris acting stupid
[10:46:45] <cmihai> # tip serial1
[10:46:46] <cmihai> all ports busy
[10:46:52] <Fish> hello
[10:46:54] <cmihai> Busy with WHAT?
[10:46:59] <cmihai> fuser / lsof aren't showing jack
[10:47:00] <palowoda> serial ports are stupid to begin with.
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[10:47:43] <palowoda> They aren't intelligent interfaces now are they.
[10:48:30] <dlg> serial interfaces are awesome
[10:48:51] <palowoda> Sure so are modems.
[10:48:58] <dlg> no, just serial
[10:49:19] <cmihai> Sigh
[10:49:26] <cmihai> So, any idea why this thing is frozen
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[10:50:07] <dlg> cmihai: is there a lock file still in place?
[10:50:24] <cmihai> Ah, great idea
[10:50:25] <cmihai> let me check
[10:50:26] <PerterB> there's a lock file somewhere in /var/run that's probably still in place... "truss -t open tip"
[10:50:47] <cmihai> Nope, /var/spool/locks/ is empty
[10:50:54] <Teknomancer> arrrg !! hmm even the test sample driver is failing to attach..
[10:51:40] <cmihai> alarm(10)                                       = 0
[10:51:41] <cmihai> open("/dev/term/a", O_RDWR)                     Err#16 EBUSY [sys_devices]
[10:52:17] <dlg> cmihai: got lsof?
[10:52:20] <cmihai> Yep
[10:53:28] <Teknomancer> http://phpfi.com/251809  <-- the sample driver, anyone willing to compile/link and try add_drv it ??
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[10:55:49] <cmihai> dlg: ah, nevermind, I figured it out ;-)
[10:55:58] <cmihai> Funny lsof or fuser didn't list them.
[10:56:44] <dlg> Teknomancer: ive done something like that before
[10:56:47] <cmihai> It was screen connected to the serial...
[10:56:52] <PerterB> lsof might just list the major and minor device numbers rather than a name in /dev
[10:56:56] <Teknomancer> dlg: oh ... and ?
[10:57:02] <Teknomancer> does ur driver attach ?
[10:57:14] <dlg> it sure did
[10:57:25] <Teknomancer> dlg any idea what's wrong with mine?
[10:57:25] <cmihai> PerterB: yes, /devices/isa/asy@1,3f8:a->ttcompat->ldterm->asy
[10:58:28] <cmihai> btw, with SXCE 68 and gnome-terminal, is anyone seeing some kind of graphic noise on the bottom of the terminal?
[10:59:08] <palowoda> gnome term is all screwed up in builds 67 and 68.  Fixed in 70 I believe.
[10:59:31] <palowoda> At least on x86.
[10:59:38] <cmihai> Oh, I see. Good.
[10:59:38] <dlg> Teknomancer: quick peek shows it looks sane
[10:59:52] <Teknomancer> dlg well it should :) i mean its just the example driver
[10:59:55] <dlg> add_drv just adds it to the kernel, i dont think it calls any attach routine though
[10:59:56] <palowoda> xterm should work as a workaround
[11:00:00] <dlg> keep reading the doco
[11:00:12] <Teknomancer> dlg but it gives me an error saying "failed to attach" when i do add_drv
[11:00:22] <Teknomancer> it says driver loaded successfully but failed to attach
[11:00:25] * dlg shrug
[11:00:34] <dlg> here's mine if you're interested: https://svn.itee.uq.edu.au/viewvc/mfi/mfi.c?revision=83&view=markup
[11:01:24] <Teknomancer> dlg ok
[11:02:43] <palowoda> cmihai: bugid http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do?bug_id=6566332   if your interested in tracking.
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[11:06:52] <Teknomancer> syslog only shows me _init _info and no calls to attach ... dang
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[11:07:13] <timsf> Morning all
[11:07:36] <palowoda> Ah it is morning.
[11:08:21] <palowoda> Best time of the day.
[11:08:35] <timsf> Not at 6:30am!
[11:09:25] <palowoda> err 2:10am is, err is my clock off you got :30?
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[11:09:50] <timsf> (oh, sorry - was referring to when my morning started, at 6:30am! it's 10:09 here)
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[11:10:53] <palowoda> Actually I thought there was some weird time zones in india that where on the half hour but my memory is foggy.
[11:12:05] <timsf> I think you're right - /usr/share/lib/zoneinfo/src/asia seems to suggest that
[11:12:53] <timsf> (at least offsets from GMT that aren't just hours)
[11:13:10] <Teknomancer> dlg: gcc -D_KERNEL -ffreestanding -nodefaultlibs -c mytdrv.c   are these gcc options enough ?
[11:13:11] <cmihai> palowoda: ah, that's the one indeed. Thanks.
[11:13:24] <dlg> Teknomancer: are you reading WDD?
[11:13:33] <Teknomancer> WDD?
[11:13:40] <dlg> writing device drivers
[11:13:52] <Teknomancer> yeah from the sun site
[11:14:49] <dlg> it has instructions for all this
[11:17:55] <ofu> wow, in certain circumstances switching from ipge to e1000g reduces load by almost 50%
[11:19:52] <quasi> ofu: is that ipge with the recommended tuning or without?
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[11:22:14] <Tempt> Hmm
[11:22:25] <Tempt> Is firewire mass storage support meant to be pretty solid these days? No gotchas?
[11:22:57] <coffman> who is responsible for the xmms build for /opt/sfw ?
[11:23:21] <palowoda> opt/sfw?  where did that come from?
[11:23:22] <Tempt> coffman: Someone who needs a kick in the nuts, no doubt?
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[11:24:23] <coffman> Tempt: yes, xmms does ship with ogg support internal since 1.2.4 and he managed to build without it
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[11:24:26] <coffman> ffs
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[11:24:36] <ofu> quasi: what is recommended tuning for ipge?
[11:24:47] <Tempt> Deary me.
[11:25:02] <coffman> and now i cant decide if i should add xmms or xmms2 to pmpkg
[11:25:03] <coffman> gar
[11:25:12] <ofu> quasi: http://www.sun.com/servers/coolthreads/tnb/parameters.jsp ?
[11:25:25] <Tempt> The blastwave xmms supports ogg fine as long as you don't mind installing openldap with it.
[11:25:28] <quasi> ofu: there's a pile of it for t2000, but most of that goes away with e1000
[11:25:46] <coffman> Tempt: i also dont need samba
[11:26:13] <coffman> Tempt: na, i will rip the patches out of the repro and will build it with pmpkg
[11:26:27] <quasi> ofu: something like those - I have a seen a few more, but don't have them handy
[11:29:24] <coffman> Tempt: pmpkg has 267 packages now
[11:34:23] <palowoda> coffman:  You know some of the good codecs at least for video come from Alvaro Lopez Ortega i.e. http://blogs.sun.com/alvaro/entry/opensolaris_codec_pack_updated  Now some of us save the good port he did early on. :)
[11:35:10] <coffman> palowoda: dude, we got that codecs in pmpkg, and we had it before him
[11:35:20] <coffman> our mplayer build is greate too
[11:35:43] <palowoda> the windows wma codecs?
[11:35:54] <coffman> palowoda: and its is not even a codec problem. solaris ships with ogg
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[11:35:58] <coffman> palowoda: yes
[11:36:09] <coffman> we got them
[11:36:59] <palowoda> So how is this pmpkg becoming popular in Solaris?
[11:37:13] <coffman> it is not :P
[11:37:22] <palowoda> Oh dear.
[11:37:50] <palowoda> In search of the holy grail I guess.
[11:38:12] <coffman> its a source based package system, like *bsd ports - oxygene did some greate work and we going to enhance it
[11:38:24] <coffman> palowoda: its not about holy grail
[11:38:37] <coffman> its about having control
[11:38:59] <coffman> and a easy way to build the software that we need
[11:39:08] <palowoda> But it's not making any progress in solaris or opensolaris distributions right?
[11:39:31] <Teknomancer> hm still no luck :)
[11:39:34] <Snake007uk> hello all,
[11:39:50] <Snake007uk> will this source based pkg mgmt be able to remove the source installs also?
[11:40:24] <coffman> Snake007uk: the packages that the system builds are native svr4
[11:41:09] <coffman> palowoda: the aim in opensolaris seems to be on pkgbuild, rpm style build system
[11:41:17] <Snake007uk> oh so the new source pkg mgmt system you are talking about build packages and installs them? so in the future if you wanted to remove them it would just be like removing a pkg
[11:41:18] <coffman> palowoda: i dont like it
[11:41:39] <coffman> Snake007uk: yes
[11:41:52] <Snake007uk> ah I see, but source build will take time :(
[11:42:18] <coffman> sure, atm we cant provide bins since we dont have proper hosting etc
[11:42:29] <coffman> we will figure that out soon
[11:42:42] <palowoda> err how soon is soon?
[11:42:53] <coffman> i like to have both options, source and bins
[11:43:00] <coffman> palowoda: about 1-2 months
[11:43:29] <ofu> i would like to see all the snapshots for a zfs filesystem, but not for subfilesystems... why doesnt zfs list -t snapshot data/logs work without -r ?
[11:43:30] <coffman> unlike blastwave we aim on solaris 10 and mostly nevada now
[11:44:05] <palowoda> Just beat blastwave that is all.
[11:44:40] <coffman> another thing is that we dont build a whole userland like blastwave - and its not about beating blastwave. csw delivers for many people a good service
[11:45:14] <palowoda> Well somebody has to be competition to blastwave.
[11:45:53] <coffman> palowoda: there is already pkgbuild with spec-files-extra
[11:46:29] <palowoda> That isn't competing with blastwave.
[11:46:48] <palowoda> Or it's not doing a very good job at it.
[11:47:15] <coffman> well, it will do with indiana, what ever is coming there
[11:47:50] <palowoda> indiana seems to be competing wtih themself.
[11:47:54] <palowoda> with
[11:48:13] <coffman> we lack one feature that the others have, depends. on the other hand this is one aim, reducing depends to usefull things
[11:48:40] <palowoda> Hmm, reducing depends.  How does that work?
[11:49:14] <timsf> ofu, yeah - it's because you're asking for snapshots, but giving it a filesystem, then saying you don't want to recurse. It's obeying.
[11:49:19] <coffman> depends will be a thing to implement, but we want to do it in multi levels, hard and soft depends
[11:49:24] <timsf> zfs list -t snapshot -r space/timf | grep space/timf@  might be what you're after ?
[11:49:50] <coffman> palowoda: well, first of all you can allways controll what you include in your build or not
[11:50:18] <coffman> our midnight commander does not include default openldap and samba and kerberos etc etc
[11:50:34] <coffman> but you can easily put it in if you like
[11:50:46] <palowoda> Over time I haven't seen builds control the less amount of dependencies.  But hey there is always hope.
[11:50:52] <Tempt> Ha! ZFS didn't panic my workstation when I pulled the one-drive firewire zpool out.
[11:51:26] <Tempt> (it just hung instead)
[11:51:28] <ofu> yes, I think | grep filesystem\@ should be the thing I want
[11:51:37] <ofu> that is a little bit confusing
[11:52:03] * ofu tries to build incremental replication
[11:52:49] <palowoda> Tempt: Is hotplugging 1394 zfs a feature?
[11:54:29] <Tempt> palowoda: It isn't meant to be.
[11:54:30] <PerterB> there's a flag day for hotplug in one of the upcoming nevada's... right now unplugging a drive is treated the same as a drive failure I think
[11:54:43] <palowoda> I didn't think firewire was one of those technologies that Sun was actively testing.
[11:54:54] <Tempt> palowoda: I knew it would cause problems, I just wanted to see it myself.
[11:55:08] <Tempt> I was considering using a firewire drive to cart stuff around instead of USB
[11:55:13] <Tempt> I think I'll stick with USB.
[11:55:49] <PerterB> Tempt: did you see lots of "transport rejected" kind of errors in your syslog when doing zfs on firewire?
[11:55:50] <palowoda> Most of the drive housings are combo's of USB 2.0/Firewire anyways.
[11:56:54] <palowoda> I don't think Sun supports firewire 800 so it's not going to make much of a difference.
[11:57:25] <PerterB> shouldn't 800 "just work"?
[11:57:49] <palowoda> Does it?  What is the tested throughput?
[11:58:15] <coffman> palowoda: nice that you do all that thinking
[11:58:18] <coffman> ffs
[11:58:39] <PerterB> no, I was asking :)  I don't have a solaris box with an 800 interface (well, I do, but only the 400 connector is wired to the case)
[11:59:07] <palowoda> Take one of those nice 1T Hitachi SATA drives with 32meg of cache put it in a firewire2 housing and lets see what the throughput is.
[11:59:25] <PerterB> "lower than native SATA"
[11:59:43] <palowoda> Well actually that drive is SATAII I think.
[12:00:02] <palowoda> 85M/bytes of write too.
[12:00:20] <coffman> PerterB: i would go by adding a usb2 card...
[12:00:36] <CIA-26> daemon@elpaso: Added tag onnv_70 for changeset dc10a713d1a0
[12:00:37] <CIA-26> ml149210: PSARC 2007/396 Removal of Duplicate BGE/NGE Kstats, 6512220 avoid duplication in kstat output
[12:01:07] <coffman> PerterB: any ohci/ehci card should do, i tested it with nec and ali chipsets, both work fine with sparc
[12:01:41] <PerterB> coffman: sure, but I have different interests (like multi-initiator busses) which usb can't do
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[12:02:59] <coffman> PerterB: scsi style?
[12:03:35] <PerterB> yeah, poor man's shared storage
[12:04:00] <PerterB> more for curiosity than any practical application
[12:04:09] <palowoda> poor man's $$$ == ??
[12:08:30] <coffman> PerterB:  well, you could have some sun cluster fun with it
[12:09:46] <PerterB> eventually, maybe... depends if device reservations work across firewire (I suspect not), plus right now the scsa1394 driver does an exclusive login to the drive which precludes sharing
[12:10:17] <PerterB> but those might be something interesting to work on as a background project
[12:13:44] <Tempt> PerterB: No, not until I yanked the device.
[12:14:45] <PerterB> hmm, interesting... I get them in normal usage with zfs
[12:15:34] <PerterB> on b62, at least
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[12:18:17] <Tempt> This is on Sol10.
[12:20:23] <PerterB> hmm, I guess I should double-check on sol10 for completeness although I suspect it may be due to the enclosure firmware
[12:21:21] <Tempt> Possibly.
[12:21:32] <Tempt> I am now considering try to burn a DVD on Sol10 using a firewire burner.
[12:22:39] <PerterB> I'd be curious to hear how you get on
[12:22:46] <Tempt> Well, it sees the drive.
[12:22:51] <Tempt> I've never burnt a DVD on Solaris before.
[12:23:19] <Tempt> Here's the big test-o-rama.
[12:23:24] <Tempt> I gather cdrecord should work...
[12:23:44] <Tempt> (where's Schily when you need him?)
[12:25:44] <quasi> Tempt: growisofs works just fine for dvd writing
[12:26:16] <Tempt> I've already got the image.
[12:26:26] <Tempt> cdrecord: If you need DVD-R/DVD-RW support, ask the Author for cdrecord-ProDVD.
[12:26:29] <PerterB> careful, if you say his name 3 times he'll likely appear ;)
[12:26:30] <Tempt> Pfft, I give up.
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[12:26:36] <coffman> gnome has this cool burn tool
[12:26:39] <quasi> Tempt: use growisofs
[12:26:40] * coffman hides
[12:26:45] <coffman> it works!
[12:26:53] <quasi> Tempt: it is very, very easy
[12:27:06] <PerterB> and there's always cdrw(1)
[12:27:21] <quasi> Tempt: growisofs -dvd-compat -Z /dev/dvd=image.iso
[12:27:38] <Tempt> :-( growisofs is being executed under sudo, aborting!
[12:27:41] <Tempt> Insanity.
[12:27:49] <quasi> Tempt: with the path to your dvd drive instead of /dev/dvd
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[12:28:55] <PerterB> why on earth should it care about sudo??
[12:29:21] <coffman> cdrecord -scanbus; cdrecord -v -data speed=X -sao dev=c,t,l /var/tmp/MyImage.ISO
[12:29:43] <Tempt> PerterB: The manual page does actually explain why it cares.
[12:29:55] <Tempt> coffman: Need "Pro-DVD" for that. Or something.
[12:30:22] <coffman> Tempt: pro-dvd?
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[12:31:07] <Tempt> coffman: See above.
[12:31:29] <PerterB> that's no different to running vi under sudo... if the admin has granted access to run the application, then you have to assume they knew what they were doing
[12:31:41] <PerterB> interestingly the manpage doesn't say anything about pfexec/RBAC :)
[12:31:43] <quasi> PerterB: see the NOTES section of the growisofs manpage
[12:32:08] <PerterB> quasi: my "vi" comment is based on the notes section
[12:32:31] <quasi> PerterB: ah, missed that while typing
[12:32:43] <PerterB> :)
[12:33:22] <Tempt> Alright, giving growisofs the ol' try.
[12:33:37] <quasi> PerterB: but I don't quite agree - giving sudo vi is pretty obvious to be a bad thing, burning dvds doesn't sound as dangerous
[12:33:43] <Tempt> :-? the LUN appears to be stuck writing LBA=310h, retry in 47ms
[12:33:48] <Tempt> That doesn't look healthy ...
[12:34:09] <Tempt> Seems to be back at it, and such an easily tool to use.
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[12:40:47] <palowoda> Heh-heh, got the garbage out before she woke up.  I'm God.  At least for a week.
[12:42:13] <Tempt> Well, it burnt with no nasty errors nor any syslog messages. Time to see if the burn actually works.
[12:44:54] <solar-star> Hi
[12:45:04] <solar-star> any experience with oss?
[12:46:03] <solar-star> i meant installation
[12:46:58] <trygvis> worked the fine the one time I installed it :)
[12:46:59] <palowoda> Too many people installed it on this channel.  Where bored now.
[12:47:22] <solar-star> how did you do it
[12:47:39] <palowoda> I put the dvd in the drive and it worked like magic.
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[12:48:01] <solar-star> as I did it, Solaris were crashed after installation
[12:48:14] <palowoda> Do say.
[12:48:52] <quasi> Tempt: if it doesn't work the first time around, I've often had good results from lowering the speed
[12:49:17] <solar-star> Possible first mistake: Did install as su, not in the root console
[12:49:35] <solar-star> Then I did a reboot, not init 6
[12:50:05] <ofu> zfs replication is only a one-liner: zfs send -i `ssh root@carborundum zfs list -rH -t snapshot data/chrysoprase/$i | grep $i\@ | awk '{print $1}' | tail -1 | cut -d "/" -f 3,4` `zfs list -rH -t snapshot $i | grep $i\@ | awk '{print $1}' | tail -1` | ssh root@car
[12:50:06] <Tempt> quasi: Booted already.
[12:50:09] <ofu> borundum zfs receive data/chrysoprase/$i
[12:50:26] 
[12:50:28] <ofu> it took a little bit longer to figure it out, but it works
[12:50:30] <Tempt> quasi: Thanks for your growisofs suggestion, I'll be using that tool a lot in the future.
[12:52:46] <quasi> Tempt: nice
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[13:10:47] <CIA-26> zf203873: 6564748 Fragments can be mishandled by ipfilter when using a custom NAT proxy
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[13:15:48] <kaiwai> hi, will there be a B70?
[13:16:09] <kszwed> unlikely since B69 was so good ;)
[13:16:30] <kaiwai> :P
[13:17:05] <kaiwai> there is no B69 available though :-(
[13:17:26] <quasi> kaiwai: Latest SXCE 68 | Latest ON 69 according to /topic
[13:18:01] <kaiwai> but there is no build of ON69, just the 'closed' stuff
[13:18:08] <quasi> kaiwai: I think you're a bit early for 69
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[13:19:13] * kaiwai feels emo
[13:19:57] <kaiwai> oh well
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[13:22:10] <kaiwai> can't wait till the next builds, my processor is supported by the power management :)
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[13:24:45] <quasi> kaiwai: what processor?
[13:30:46] <quasi> kaiwai: ah, http://opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/pages/2007071601/ - but that's b70
[13:36:00] <Teknomancer> ok this is weird, the ramdisk driver that comes with solaris, also fails to attach when add_drv calls..
[13:36:14] <Teknomancer> but somehow it publish a device under /devices ...
[13:36:18] <Teknomancer> weird
[13:36:45] <Teknomancer> devfsadm gives the same warning for my driver too, but it never calls attach... hm, let me debug the ramdisk driver more
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[13:37:26] <coffman> is there some kind of sleep mode on the ultra 10?
[13:38:55] <quasi> coffman: yeah, that's what happens to the user while waiting for the u10 to do any work ;)
[13:39:14] <coffman> gar
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[13:41:22] <Snake007uk> lol
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[13:44:16] <kszwed> aruiz, are we there yet?
[13:44:25] <aruiz> kszwed, heh
[13:44:32] <kszwed> ;-)
[13:45:01] <coffman> seriously, if some one offers you a free u10, say no - fuck yourself
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[13:46:57] <Snake007uk> lol
[13:47:02] <Snake007uk> I have 3 U2 at home
[13:47:04] <Snake007uk> doing nothing
[13:47:15] <Snake007uk> dual 300mhz (wooooossssh) with 2 gig mem
[13:47:49] <quasi> coffman: I'd still take the u10 just to add a bit of sparc'le
[13:48:06] <WickedWicky> I just installed pkg-get , works good, me is a happy person
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[13:49:33] <lplatypus> some of the links on seem to be broken on this page: http://opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/all/
[13:50:04] <lplatypus> eg PSARC/2007/081: http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/caselog/2007/081/
[13:50:23] <lplatypus> is this a known problem, eg old PSARCs not available publicly?
[13:51:44] <quasi> lplatypus: probably - not all PSARCs are available
[13:52:54] <lplatypus> how do I find out whether my network card is supported by "Broadcom NetXtreme II Gigabit Ethernet Driver" in b67, short of downloading many gigabytes and trying it?
[13:54:21] <jmcp> lplatypus: use the prtpicl -v output for your card, and then wander through src.opensolaris.org looking for usr/src/uts/common/io/bge
[13:55:01] <jmcp> specifically, follow the instructions in http://blogs.sun.com/jmcp/entry/how_do_i_find_out, then look inside http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/uts/common/io/bge/
[13:55:22] <jmcp> http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/uts/common/io/bge/bge.conf lists the known pci vid/did entries
[13:58:01] <lplatypus> thanks jmcp... it's not there unfortunately :-(
[13:58:20] <jmcp> bummer
[13:58:31] <jmcp> how new is your bge?
[13:58:45] <_mary_kate_> does QFS have a checksum feature (like zfs)?
[13:59:00] <lplatypus> it's in a new model dell laptop (lattitude D630)
[13:59:19] <jmcp> lplatypus: you might be able to get away with an update_drv to add the device alias
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[13:59:46] <jmcp> but you'd need to download a fairly recent bge in order to try it
[13:59:56] <lplatypus> okay I'll give it a whirl with b68
[14:00:11] <jmcp> you could (should!) also log an RFE via b.o.o requesting that support gets added for it
[14:00:34] <lplatypus> I notice that my vendorid belongs to dell, but it's listed as "compatible" with a pciid with broadcom vendorid
[14:00:39] <Teknomancer> ... for a psuedo device no need to specify any arguments to add_drv right ? just add_drv driver-name is enough right ?
[14:01:21] <_mary_kate_> lplatypus: broadcom makes a netxtreme II driver if you don't want to upgrade
[14:02:01] <lplatypus> I saw that on their site, but it was only listed as supporting the server NICs rather than the desktop/mobile NICs
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[14:02:12] <lplatypus> it's worth a try though I guess, thanks _mary_kate_
[14:02:17] <_mary_kate_> oh, there's a difference?  weird
[14:02:34] <lplatypus> mine is a 5755M (seems to be different than a 5755)
[14:02:57] <sickness> am I wrong, or the only cards usable with xen, the GLDv3 ones, are gigabit cards? no hope for 100mbit cards? :/
[14:03:11] <_mary_kate_> hmm, this is a 5708
[14:05:18] *** frostcs_ is now known as FrostCS
[14:05:19] <delewis> few 100Mbps cards are GLDv3, nowadays, like eri and hme.
[14:05:22] <delewis> but those are for SPARC.
[14:05:27] <sickness> heh
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[14:05:46] <_mary_kate_> if xen needs gldv3, gdamore might be able to justify converting more :)
[14:05:51] <sickness> eheh
[14:05:56] <sickness> yeah xen needs that
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[14:08:12] <movement> gotta convert em all
[14:08:35] <coffman> xen will bring us ip instances right?
[14:08:45] <coffman> so which build xen goes in?
[14:08:48] <movement> ip instances is already in nevada. it's unrelated
[14:08:52] <jmcp> coffman: we've had ip instances for ages
[14:09:04] <movement> xen includes some of the crossbow code
[14:09:07] <movement> basic VNICs
[14:09:08] <_mary_kate_> i thought ip instances was going in for zones
[14:09:15] <_mary_kate_> rather than xen
[14:09:15] <timsf> ip instances was in nv_57 I think
[14:09:54] *** calumb is now known as calLNCH
[14:09:57] <jmcp> yes, snv_57, flag day was jan 19
[14:10:02] <jmcp> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/pages/2007011902/
[14:11:57] <coffman> aeh. crossbow
[14:12:01] <lplatypus> I tried PXE booting to the installer for nv68, but it bombs out because no driver was attached to my broadcom NIC.  Is there a way to do update_drv at that point?  The root fs seems to be mounted read-only which is awkward.
[14:12:43] <_mary_kate_> lplatypus: you need to extract root_archive, add the driver, and repack it
[14:12:57] <_mary_kate_> i did this a while ago sadly didn't write down the instructions.. but it's on google somewhere
[14:13:33] * jmcp sleeps
[14:14:00] <lplatypus> _mary_kate_: thx
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[14:19:45] <BadKarma> darn
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[14:39:41] <kaiwai> hi Gman
[14:39:48] <Gman> hey kaiwai
[14:40:03] <kaiwai> hows the conference/expo/shimdig?
[14:40:32] <Gman> good good
[14:40:48] <Gman> yesterday did a video podcast about opensolaris and indiana
[14:40:57] <Gman> went shopping for toys for the sun party
[14:41:05] <kaiwai> ah, is it up somewhere (the video)?
[14:41:13] <kaiwai> ah, 'toys' - I assume in good taste :P
[14:41:49] <quasi> "indiana - the project planning to kill opensolaris"
[14:42:01] <Gman> kaiwai, i imagine it will be - it's a pearson (??) set of video casts about open source
[14:42:04] <kaiwai> Indiana looks good from what I've seen, lets just hope some internal wankers don't stuff it up
[14:42:39] <kaiwai> the same wankers who insisted on exclusive sparc in the face of reality running them down like a freight train
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[14:43:11] <WickedWicky> w00t w00t
[14:43:12] <WickedWicky> xmms is working
[14:43:23] <Teknomancer> w000t got my driver to publish !!!
[14:43:24] * quasi would like indiana to crash and burn before it does any more damage
[14:43:37] <Teknomancer> it needed the .conf !! which the stupid PDF docs never said was a must
[14:43:40] <kaiwai> quasi: sweety, what damage can it do?
[14:43:41] <WickedWicky> Teknomancer: w00t to you! :P
[14:43:42] <Teknomancer> it says "IF your driver uses a conf file ..."
[14:43:45] <Teknomancer> but
[14:43:56] <Teknomancer> now i need an entry under /dev :) not just under /devices/pseudo
[14:44:00] <kaiwai> quasi: more people using it and removing your l33t d00d status?
[14:44:11] <Teknomancer> in freebsd we'd simply use make_dev for this, but i guess its different in solaris
[14:44:20] <Teknomancer> any ideas on how my driver can get any entry under /dev ?
[14:44:35] <quasi> kaiwai: "let's fsck up opensolaris to stink as much as debrian"
[14:44:36] <Teknomancer> WickedWicky:  :) thx
[14:45:12] * WickedWicky is playing Mr. Ozzi - Flat beat , and goes mental
[14:45:14] <kaiwai> quasi: yeah, I know, I'd hate to have a huge selection of software thats easy to use and install
[14:45:27] <kaiwai> quasi: life shuold be as fucking misserable and painful as possible! yeah!
[14:45:39] <WickedWicky> kawai: innit already?
[14:45:57] <kaiwai> WickedWicky: not really, it could be worse, Hilary could be president
[14:46:04] <quasi> kaiwai: it isn't about the software - it is whether you aim to make solaris a bloated desktop os or a server os
[14:46:04] <WickedWicky> true true
[14:46:13] <WickedWicky> ...
[14:46:16] <kaiwai> Bush or hilary - both as bad as each other
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[14:46:24] <Teknomancer> hehe
[14:46:31] <kaiwai> maybe the US isn't mature enough for independence
[14:46:32] <Teknomancer> man 2 days and it was the stupid .conf file not my code :P
[14:46:37] <WickedWicky> quasi: serious... opensolaris ships a java desktop environment
[14:46:38] * Teknomancer is tired :)
[14:46:43] <WickedWicky> what do you mean?
[14:46:51] <quasi> WickedWicky: yeah, and that's more than enough
[14:47:20] <kaiwai> na, just got worse - zune 2.0 to be released soon
[14:47:41] <WickedWicky> if you wanna run solaris as a server, ommit the java desktop installation
[14:47:47] <WickedWicky> nobody forces you install it
[14:47:49] <tomww> Teknomancer: wondering if DTrace-Toolkit's opensnoop  (or...)would have seen the file-open for the conf file...
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[14:48:43] * quasi backs away from the linux kiddies - sorry, no time to play
[14:48:43] <WickedWicky> what has this to do with linux/
[14:48:49] <WickedWicky> I can install linux , run 24 ttys and run screen in every tty
[14:48:51] <kaiwai> yeah, whose the linux kiddy?!
[14:48:57] <WickedWicky> that's 24 * 9 terminals
[14:49:06] <Teknomancer> tomww: hmm ... well i tried using cmn_err to see what was going on but it was totally useless in this case
[14:49:16] <Teknomancer> dtrace i'm not yet fully aware how to use it (for this pseudo driver)
[14:49:32] <WickedWicky> what you're pointing out is a frustration regarding opensolaris being (ab)used as a desktop environment, and I dont see the problem with it being used as that
[14:50:14] <kaiwai> WickedWicky: if it means that its a nice desktop, it might just attract more developers outside sun - how terrible *rolls eyes*
[14:50:25] <Teknomancer> tomww:  any idea why ddi_create_minor_node() makes the /devices/pseudo entry correctly but not under /dev ? is that normal in solaris ?
[14:50:46] <WickedWicky> kawai: yeah, opensolaris should be narrowed to a selective group of users and developers I guess
[14:51:12] <WickedWicky> djgregor: quasi just has a bad day and we should give hima  break
[14:51:19] <WickedWicky> o.O
[14:51:25] <WickedWicky> that was or :
[14:51:43] * WickedWicky goes for a coffee , brb
[14:52:06] <Teknomancer> opensolaris is quite a 'different' experience for a desktop person like me ... some of the stuff seems overkill (like boot archive recovery and the terrible shutdown times :P which i think is a bug maybe )
[14:52:29] * Gman doesn't think indiana is about making opensolaris like linux
[14:53:09] <timeless> gman: how much noise is there about indiana?
[14:53:28] <hile_> I don't see it taking all that long to shut down.
[14:53:36] <timeless> hrm, my irc client is broken, i can't see new lines :(
[14:54:03] <tomww> Teknomancer: I don't know if that help, I not too familiar with creating the dev-entries... cat /etc/devlink.tab  and look into devlinks (1M)
[14:54:12] <sickness> timeless: that's going to be a problem for your ircing :P
[14:54:18] <quasi> hile_: I imagine someone with all services started would have to wait longer for the shutdown
[14:54:35] <timeless> sickness: i can see one line at a time and some random fraction of other lines
[14:54:40] <Gman> timeless, well, feels like there's a lot of people who haven't understood what we're trying to do
[14:54:49] <Gman> if we're making it just another linux, what's the point
[14:55:06] <sickness> timeless: that happened to me when using irssi inside of screen inside of midpssh on a nokia 6630 :P
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[14:55:08] <timeless> gman: another linux means more incompatibilities and brokeness
[14:55:12] <timeless> isn't that a good thing?
[14:55:20] <Gman> :)
[14:55:23] <sickness> timeless: I had to set the terminal type in midpssh to "ANSI" that fixed the problem :)
[14:55:24] <Gman> survey says 'no'
[14:55:48] <Teknomancer> tomww:  oh okay, will look into it
[14:55:49] * timeless suspects irc problem relates to TERM=suncolor/vt100/screen
[14:55:57] <Teknomancer> tomww: thanks
[14:56:02] <quasi> Gman: the linux userbase seem to say 'yes'
[14:56:21] <hile_> who gives a shit about the linux userbase.
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[14:56:38] <timeless> sickness: hrm, i'll try that
[14:56:39] <Gman> ok, we're not going to break binary compatibility, period
[14:56:52] <jamesd_> hile_, redhat and  ubuntu seem to care a tiny bit
[14:56:53] <sickness> timeless: are you ircing from a cellphone? :)
[14:56:56] <timeless> aww,you're no fun
[14:57:00] <quasi> hile_: anyone "trying to attract developers to opensolaris"
[14:57:07] <timeless> sickness: i was doing that last week
[14:57:25] <timeless> nowi'm irc'ing as root from myopensolaris amd64 root console
[14:57:30] <timeless> x is broken, iso i don't have many choices
[14:57:35] <timeless> btw, thanks, ansi worked
[14:57:38] <sickness> otherwise, screen gave me no problems under solaris, the xterm of solaris gave me some problems, I couldn't see the <> around nicknames in irssi, I had to switch to xterm86 from blastwave, that worked flawlessy :)
[14:58:17] <hile_> try using rxvt off the companion CD -- that's what I do now that (unfortunately) CDE is going away.
[14:58:30] <sickness> timeless: cool, anyway, I wasn't trying to be fun, I sometimes chat from the mobile :)
[14:58:42] <timeless> at some point, it'd be nice if i could figure out how to fix x11..
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[14:59:08] <timeless> sickness: i'm timlE61i if i'm irc'ing from my mobile (directly instead of ssh to screen)
[14:59:11] <nachox> morning
[15:00:14] <timeless> hrm, my screen just blanked :(
[15:00:15] <_mary_kate_> i wonder if anyone has installed Solaris using a Heathkit 19 terminal recently
[15:00:16] <sickness> eheh, I regrab this session from my home gateway, instead, so I'm always sickness :P
[15:00:25] <anilg> Teknomancer: there's always the everpowerful and express-fact 'poweroff' ..
[15:00:34] <timeless> yeah, that's what i normally do w/ ssh
[15:00:45] <Teknomancer> anilg:  ooooh nnooo  solaris HATES hard-powering off :)
[15:00:46] <timeless> i was experimenting w/ the irc client for my phone to see how it was
[15:01:01] <Teknomancer> it will take ages to boot into solaris the next time if i do that
[15:01:14] <anilg> works for me :).. although I do dump core a lot of times
[15:01:17] <Teknomancer> something about boot archive and that i must fix it
[15:01:21] <jamesd_> Teknomancer, never had a problem with it in solaris 10 and later,  logging is enabled by default.
[15:01:26] <anilg> I havnt noticed any difference in bootup..
[15:01:26] <Teknomancer> which takes an eternity :P
[15:01:31] <nachox> what's happyface boot? :)
[15:01:32] <anilg> it's always the 100 seconds
[15:01:44] <anilg> which is LONG
[15:02:02] <anilg> winXP=30 sec.. ubuntu=40 Sec
[15:02:24] <timeless> anilg: how's BeOS? :)
[15:02:26] <Teknomancer> on mine solaris about 80 seconds debian 60 seconds zeta 15
[15:02:34] <Teknomancer> timeless:  its awesome fast :)
[15:02:39] <timeless> ++Teknomanacer
[15:02:47] <timeless> err, please excuse my typoing :)
[15:02:52] <Teknomancer> tabbing :P
[15:02:54] <anilg> timeless: never tried it
[15:02:55] <Teknomancer> gotta love it
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[15:03:15] <timeless> my irc client treats tab as ins/ovr :|
[15:03:36] <Teknomancer> k need a short break bbiab
[15:03:45] <delewis> I can't say much for x86, but Solaris boot times on SPARC are quite fast. This is because Solaris/SPARC does not have aboot archive like Solaris/x86, but I hear this may change soon. In any case, boot times do not concern me.
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[15:04:04] <delewis> I use CPR on my Tadpole, and my workstations and servers are usually up continuously.
[15:04:14] <timeless> delewis: tell that to my wXP laptop which is undergoing a large number of IT forced reboots
[15:04:25] <timeless> the boot time sucks because of all the junk they force onto it
[15:04:32] <timeless> including low level AES encryption
[15:04:49] <nachox> delewis: openboot can read ufs? how does it solve the chicken and egg problem the bootarchive solves in x86?
[15:05:08] <delewis> yes, OpenBoot can read UFS in a limited way.
[15:05:10] <timeless> nachox: but can openboot read zfs? :)
[15:05:25] <delewis> enough for it to read the bootblock, execute it, and start loading the kernel.
[15:05:27] <solar-star> what is the boot_archive for?
[15:05:51] <nachox> solar-star: if you ever used linux, it's like the initrd disk
[15:05:56] <solar-star> as you told on sparc not necessary
[15:06:15] <solar-star> nachox: ok
[15:06:30] <solar-star> I am quiet a newbe
[15:07:06] <nachox> it is a set of files without which the system cannot boot, those files are in turn in also in the filesystem so if any of them changes, the boot archive has to be updated
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[15:08:07] <solar-star> so always use init 6 right?
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[15:09:22] <quasi> init 5 is fine if you want to power off
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[15:14:29] <solar-star> any experience installing oss on solaris developer edition 05/07 ?
[15:15:37] <_mary_kate_> hmm, my zone is behaving very oddly.  keeps hanging
[15:16:37] <quasi> _mary_kate_: hanging when doing what? booting, shutting down or?
[15:16:39] <timeless> are you using a console, tty, or random network port (80)?
[15:16:54] <_mary_kate_> quasi: using 'less', and then trying to zlogin
[15:17:16] <_mary_kate_> now trying to halt it, which is also taking a while
[15:18:05] <timeless> sickness: so, i don't suppose you know of a way to get screen to send pagedown to the app inside it?
[15:18:11] <timeless> [222z isn't very useful :(
[15:20:26] <sickness> timeless: if you're under solaris, I found that pageup and pagedown, doesn't work, BUT, if you disable the numlock and use the 9 and 3 numbers on the keypad (far right of the keyboard :) they work as pagup pagdown :P
[15:20:30] <quasi> _mary_kate_: did you ever go through the initial configuring with zlogin -C ?
[15:20:46] <_mary_kate_> quasi: yep.  this is the 6th identical zone i've created on this box, the first 5 work fine
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[15:21:14] <quasi> _mary_kate_: very odd
[15:21:56] <timeless> nope :(, same behavior as pageup/pagedown
[15:21:58] <quasi> the only time I've run into something that sounds similar, it hit all zones
[15:22:09] <sickness> that's strange...
[15:22:25] <sickness> timeless: you're not in X right?
[15:22:30] <sickness> or you are already in X?
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[15:22:46] <_mary_kate_> hm.. i restarted it and it seems to be working fine now.  weird
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[15:23:03] <timeless> i think it's basically console.TERM=ansi {ssh.TERM=vt100} screen.TERM=vt100 ssh screen epic
[15:23:54] <timeless> no x involved, just usb keyboard, opensolaris box, TERM=ansi for the initial bit, and reconnecting to a number of preexisting screens
[15:24:10] <timeless> the preexisting screens of course work for all other connections and already have TERM=vt100 set
[15:24:50] <timeless> they're shared between putty@w32, terminal.app@osx xterm at n800 dot linux, ...
[15:25:19] <sickness> timeless: while in copy mode (C-a ESC) try C-b and C-f they should let you scroll an entire page :)
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[15:25:37] <timeless> hrm
[15:25:54] <timeless> C-b => copy mode aborted
[15:25:55] <sickness> (then q to quit copy mode, as usual)
[15:26:18] <sickness> to me, C-b scrolls back 1 page
[15:26:36] <timeless> well, "up" works in copy mode
[15:26:39] <sickness> CTRL + b
[15:26:40] <sickness> yeah
[15:26:41] <timeless> that alone is vaguely helpful
[15:27:02] <sickness> movement works like in vi, hjkl
[15:28:01] <sickness> otherwise you could try g to move at the beginning of the screen terminal buffer...
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[15:37:51] <kaiwai> is there an eta to when xen will oficially be merged into Solaris?
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[15:38:50] <axisys> timeless: is that pgup/pgdwn for irssi session?
[15:39:14] <axisys> if yes it works fine for me.. here is how my .screenrc file looks like http://rafb.net/p/zJfnNC77.html
[15:40:53] <timeless> ircii
[15:41:06] <timeless> it's fine for all other clients that have pageup/pagedown
[15:41:22] <timeless> it normally works in X.org on this box, just not w/ this console config
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[15:43:10] <leal> hello, i'm having some problems loading the avs module (nsctl)... the module is there (/usr/kernel/drv/amd64/nsctl) but the system can not find it.
[15:43:32] <leal> The /etc/system file says that moddir default is /kernel and /usr/kernel...
[15:43:36] <axisys> sickness, timeless u guys know how to increase the buffer.. so I can scroll back to the beginning?
[15:43:44] <_mary_kate_> hmm, i lied, the zone is hanging again
[15:44:06] <kaiwai> best to cut the rope to stop it hanging :)
[15:44:27] <leal> modload is not working either. no matter what path i give to it... just "No such file or directory" error.
[15:44:43] <kaiwai> modload?
[15:45:14] <leal> kaiwai: yes
[15:45:21] <Teknomancer> leal:  u need to add_drv first i think
[15:45:23] <Teknomancer> and then use modload
[15:45:33] <leal> Teknomancer: that was already done.
[15:45:42] <Teknomancer> leal:  then just give the driver name
[15:45:49] <Teknomancer> without path
[15:45:49] <sickness> axisys: irssi buffer or terminal buffer?
[15:45:50] <leal> So??
[15:45:59] <axisys> sickness: terminal buffer
[15:46:06] <Teknomancer> to modload i mean
[15:46:23] <leal> Teknomancer: but is not working.... that is the problem!
[15:47:18] <leal> i just want to know if somebody has that problem, or knows something about load modules...
[15:47:18] <Teknomancer> ur driver in /usr/kernel/drv i presume
[15:47:29] <sickness> axisys: I don't know terminal buffer, but for screen it's -h numlines
[15:47:33] <sickness> like screen -h 1000
[15:47:33] <leal> like i said before...
[15:47:54] <leal> /usr/kernel/drv/amd64/nsctl is the driver
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[15:49:23] <axisys> sickness: so I have to start screen with that .. ok
[15:50:20] <sickness> or maybe there's a command to increase it while running with : command
[15:51:31] <_mary_kate_> haha oops, i set root's home directory to /home
[15:51:44] <_mary_kate_> apparently it doesn't like that :)
[15:52:44] <sickness> like :set buffer
[15:52:53] <sickness> or like :set OL= or OL
[15:53:05] <sickness> try various combinations I never tried to increment that =)
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[15:58:41] <axisys> sickness: thnx
[15:59:34] <sickness> yw
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[16:02:50] <_mary_kate_> can i add an inherit-pkg-dir to a zone after it's installed?
[16:03:13] <timeless> sure
[16:03:26] <timeless> although you shouldn't do it while it's running :)
[16:04:29] <timeless> /usr/sbin/zonecfg -z stage
[16:04:30] <tomww> _mary_kate_: zonecfg should do that (IIRC)
[16:04:43] <timeless> zonecfg:stage> add inherit-pkg-dir
[16:04:44] <timeless> stage: cannot add in read-only mode.
[16:04:49] <quasi> timeless: are you sure that will work? I'm pretty sure it doesn't work
[16:04:56] <timeless> doesn't seem to work so well in read-only mode :(
[16:05:10] <quasi> timeless: inherit-pkg-dir is only for the install
[16:06:00] <timeless> http://www.mail-archive.com/zones-discuss at opensolaris dot org/msg00269.html
[16:06:01] <timeless> oops :(
[16:07:33] <WickedWicky> ye gods... I love people who pull wrong UTP cables from a server and render a production oracle database inaccessible
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[16:08:02] <quasi> WickedWicky: that's why you have ipmp ;)
[16:08:17] <WickedWicky> this is a non clustered oracle instance
[16:08:29] <WickedWicky> for one more week, then I'll cluster it
[16:08:54] <PerterB> you don't need to have a cluster to use ipmp
[16:08:57] <quasi> WickedWicky: that has no effect on ipmp
[16:09:04] <oninoshiko> WickedWicky: thats why you have a wooden bat labled "clue stick"
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[16:09:39] <WickedWicky> oninoshiko: ya..
[16:09:56] <WickedWicky> quasi: no but right now it has one DMZ interface
[16:10:07] <WickedWicky> when I'm done it'll have two
[16:10:14] <_mary_kate_> hmm, i guess i can add /opt as a lofs mount instead
[16:14:46] <quasi> _mary_kate_: or consider a reinstall if you didn't get very far along yet
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[16:15:06] <_mary_kate_> quasi: i already imported 400GB of data to sql servers :)
[16:15:15] <_mary_kate_> and i don't really need a compiler in the zone anyway.
[16:15:37] <quasi> _mary_kate_: making it a ro lofs risks package updates failing later
[16:15:47] <quasi> patches
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[16:29:36] <timeless> gman: so, i was going to say, i guess i can't say i'm the only person who doesn't understand what indiana is(for)
[16:30:01] <e^ipi> it's Sun Microsystem's marketing department gone wild
[16:30:02] <axisys> I just hit this bug http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do?bug_id=6289517
[16:30:28] <axisys> any undocumented workaround or troubleshooting out there for this?
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[16:30:51] <axisys> i am running sol 10 u3 on netra t 1405
[16:31:09] <Tempt> axisys: Takin' a look.
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[16:31:17] <kaiwai> sun has a marketing department?
[16:31:18] <Tempt> axisys: How do you like the old Netra?
[16:31:25] <kaiwai> could have bloody fooled me
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[16:32:45] <axisys> Tempt: using it for 5 yrs now
[16:32:50] <Tempt> Lovely.
[16:32:57] <Tempt> Watch out for the front fans; they tend to die over time.
[16:33:07] <Tempt> (and they only alarm through the LOM, not in syslog)
[16:33:17] <Tempt> ummn, patch 118833?
[16:33:51] <axisys> 118833-33 is there
[16:34:00] <Tempt> Hmm
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[16:34:18] <Tempt> I know a full patch run cleared this for me, and the message isn't anything to worry about.
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[16:34:53] <axisys> Tempt: i guess i will just install the recommeded cluster for sol 10
[16:35:03] <andyshack> evening! i just want to double check before i bork everything : IF "zpool status -v" says "andy everything is fine and im showing 8 drives in the pool", is that a 98% chance that there are only 8 drives in the pool ?
[16:35:25] <andyshack> ive got 2 drives that seem to be doing nothing.
[16:35:43] <Tempt> axisys: You should be doing that anyway, and then grabbing "pca" and letting it do the magic dance.
[16:35:49] <andyshack> so i thought id add them to the pool, which is where i assumed they would be but for some reason dont seem to be.
[16:35:57] <Tempt> axisys: Unless this is a critical production host, in which case I'm sure you'll test it in a dev environment first.
[16:36:38] <quasi> andyshack: and they all show up in format?
[16:36:54] <Tempt> axisys: The current release of 118833 is -36
[16:37:14] <andyshack> quasi : yeah 12 drives show up in format.
[16:37:15] <axisys> Tempt: yep all those :-)
[16:37:23] <Tempt> And read note #67 ;)
[16:37:28] <Tempt> (in the patch readme)
[16:37:29] <andyshack> quasi : 2 for boot, 8 show in the pool.
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[16:38:54] <axisys> Tempt: do u know an easier way to get the recom patch cluster.. i always had to download first in my computer and then scp over to the subject host
[16:39:21] <Tempt> Can the subject host talk to the world?
[16:39:25] <Tempt> Or is it firewalled away?
[16:39:49] <axisys> Tempt: yes.. but no browser
[16:39:58] <axisys> yes it can talk tothe world
[16:40:27] * oninoshiko wakes back up from the early morning nap... "my DL is done"
[16:40:42] <axisys> it has wget
[16:41:22] <Tempt> axi: pca
[16:41:29] <Tempt> axi: google "pca solaris patch"
[16:41:35] <Tempt> axi: And get a copy of patch check advanced.
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[16:42:00] <Tempt> axi: Just fire it up, give it your sunsolve login and it'll wget all the patches down that are required and install them for you.
[16:42:32] <axisys> Tempt: i used pca.. i was wondering if i could just wget the recm cluster
[16:42:35] <Tempt> axi: And it'll grab all the revelant patches, including ones that provide new functionality as well as the _Recommended clusters.
[16:42:54] <Tempt> axisys: Have you tried just downloaded them using a browser on the target host?
[16:43:39] <axisys> Tempt: pulling is allowed .. not pushing :-(
[16:43:55] <axisys> Tempt: so if somehow I could use wget to pull it
[16:44:55] <Tempt> As in fire up a browser on your machine and drag them down ... perhaps lynx or w3m?
[16:45:40] <axisys> Tempt: lynx or w3m would be another option
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[16:47:23] <Tempt> Sadly SunSolve ain't quite as easy to navigate as it used to be...
[16:51:21] * oninoshiko thinks a page should not be allowed in the web if it cant be reasonably navigated in lynx
[16:51:29] <Tempt> I'd tend to agree.
[16:51:39] <Tempt> I still use lynx quite a bit.
[16:51:43] <oninoshiko> i do too
[16:52:58] <oninoshiko> actually in the US you can make a legal case about it... i think it would qualify as a "reasonable accommodation" under the ADA (ie screen readers for the blind)
[16:53:49] <Tempt> Well, someone should give Sun a kicking about sunsolve...
[16:56:35] <oninoshiko> and by the time a page can pass xhtml 1.1 validation, navigation is normally acceptable in text-based browsers -.-
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[17:02:18] <SYS64738> is there a log rotate system integrated in solaris express ?
[17:04:07] <coffman> log rotate?
[17:04:54] <axisys> Tempt: i got it using wget..
[17:05:17] <axisys> wget --http-user=<USER> --http-passwd=<PASSWD> "http://sunsolve.sun.com/private-cgi/pdownload.pl?target=10_Recommended.zip&method=h" -O file.zip
[17:05:31] <axisys> i cheated from the getsolpatch.sh script on sunsolve page
[17:07:33] <axisys> SYS64738: logadm
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[17:08:08] <SYS64738> thanks
[17:08:16] <axisys> SYS64738: np
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[17:09:35] <Teknomancer> gaim likes to crash once a day i guess
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[17:11:58] <Auralis> pidgin 2.0.2 is much more stable then the older gaim
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[17:14:28] <Teknomancer> i can install it after downloading it using something like pkg-add ?
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[17:15:12] <Chihan> Other excellence?
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[17:19:20] <hile_> too bad the stack's a bitch to build, Auralis :)
[17:19:35] <e^ipi> ?
[17:19:38] <e^ipi> i built it just fine
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[17:19:44] <Auralis> not realy, builds fine here
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[17:23:07] <hile_> the last time i tried it, it was being a whore
[17:23:10] <hile_> building it on s10u3
[17:23:14] <delewis> what's this?
[17:23:21] <ServerGod> just installed dev edition, i can do a nslookup and resolve dns names, can enter them in a browser and go to the ip, but no straight up dns from browser or cli
[17:23:55] <hile_> pidgin
[17:24:00] <hile_> the last time I tried it
[17:24:22] <delewis> ah. I just use Pidgin on my Windows workstation. :-)
[17:24:23] <ServerGod> any ideas? port 53 works, or else no nslookup. Stumped
[17:24:24] <Teknomancer> i hate how both in pidgin and gaim it always reconnects automatically
[17:24:39] <hile_> so turn that off
[17:24:44] <Teknomancer> doesn't work
[17:24:49] <iMax> ServerGod: /etc/resolv.conf configured incorrectly?
[17:25:02] <ServerGod> yeah, i have two dns servers in there
[17:25:35] <Teknomancer> i connect to an IRC server, then close pidgin/gaim, it reconnects to it automatically ... unless i explicitly disconnect from the server before closing gaim,
[17:26:03] <iMax> ServerGod: nsswitch.conf as well?
[17:26:07] <Teknomancer> in other words it has only an "Enabled" setting, and not a "Auto connect on startup" setting which should be 2 different ones
[17:26:10] <ServerGod> leme look
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[17:30:54] <Maverick_Man> qwer
[17:31:44] <Maverick_Man> nsswitch.conf looks pretty plain, everything is set to "files"
[17:31:59] <Auralis> hosts: files dns     is what you want
[17:34:12] <Maverick_Man> reboot after that?
[17:34:17] <Auralis> no
[17:35:56] <gdamore> hi
[17:36:18] <gdamore> earlier someone asked about GLDv3 and Xen.... more 100Mbps will be going GLDv3 soon.
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[17:36:40] <gdamore> and indeed, the afe and mxfe drivers which are common 100Mbps x86 NICs will be GLDv3.
[17:37:15] <_mary_kate_> what about elxl?
[17:37:16] <oninoshiko> excuse my  ignorance, what is GLDv3?
[17:37:24] <kaiwai> hmmm, lots are being ported over to nemo
[17:37:43] <kaiwai> oninoshiko: its sun new networking interface thingy-ma-jig
[17:37:46] <kaiwai> project nemo
[17:37:55] <kaiwai> not to be confused with project emo
[17:37:59] <oninoshiko> ahh... hrm interesting
[17:38:34] <kaiwai> its quite spiffy
[17:38:41] * oninoshiko would hate to have a network interface cutting itself
[17:38:58] <movement> gdamore: what do afe and mxfe correspond to (typical names)
[17:38:58] <kaiwai> or whining, "I disconnect myself to feel alive!"
[17:39:07] * oninoshiko giggles
[17:40:12] <Maverick_Man> Awesome
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[17:40:42] <Maverick_Man> Auralis thanks!
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[17:40:54] <kaiwai> hmm, I thought I was the only one old enough to remember the good old days of computers
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[17:41:25] <oninoshiko> define "good ole days"
[17:41:32] <kaiwai> the amiga, atari for instance
[17:41:50] <kaiwai> great bits of hardware, innovative, fun, exciting
[17:41:55] <quasi> "computers"
[17:42:16] <kaiwai> I remember the crap there was in the PC world
[17:42:17] <Maverick_Man> franklin ace 1000 apple 1 clone
[17:42:34] <kaiwai> god it was awful, slow, unreliable, crap software
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[17:44:12] <oninoshiko> some was
[17:44:32] <oninoshiko> there was some decent code
[17:45:09] <Teknomancer> bye all
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[18:11:32] <crossblaim> hi
[18:11:41] <oninoshiko> hi
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[18:16:40] <_mary_kate_> why are my zone ids 0, 2, 4, 6... what happened to the odd numbers?
[18:17:17] *** calMTG is now known as calumb
[18:17:57] <oninoshiko> they were odd, so it was decided that their unpredictability couldn't be risked... (i have no idea)
[18:18:00] <tomww> _mary_kate_: IIRC the ids change with every reboot and are not fixed to a number for each zonename
[18:18:08] <_mary_kate_> ah
[18:18:40] * oninoshiko never paid much attention to the ids
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[18:20:34] <WickedWicky> ello ello
[18:21:20] * oninoshiko sings "i dont know why you say goodbye i say ello"
[18:21:32] <WickedWicky> :D
[18:22:08] <kaiwai> damn, this is scary
[18:22:23] <kaiwai> oninoshiko: whats the song called/
[18:22:24] <kaiwai> ?
[18:22:48] <oninoshiko> ummm... i donnno... the hello goodbye song?
[18:23:23] <kaiwai> oh, the beatles song, "hello good bye' from the magical mystery bus tour
[18:23:57] <WickedWicky> yep yep
[18:24:05] <WickedWicky> or
[18:24:15] <WickedWicky> Paul Mcarthney
[18:24:20] <WickedWicky> without h
[18:24:25] <Cyrille> and two C.
[18:24:27] <WickedWicky> that
[18:24:33] <Cyrille> so pretty much not how you spelled it.
[18:24:36] <Cyrille> ;-)
[18:24:39] <WickedWicky> haha, sharpish
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[18:25:02] <WickedWicky> 30 more mins, then I am home, weeee
[18:25:35] <WickedWicky> kaiwai: http://www.lyricsdownload.com/paul-mccartney-hello-goodbye-lyrics.html
[18:25:39] <WickedWicky> ze lyrics
[18:25:49] <oninoshiko> haha it is the hello goodbye song
[18:26:22] <kaiwai> Cyrille: meh, i prefer sgt. peppers lonely heart club - Within You Without You
[18:26:32] <oninoshiko> i didn't think that's what it was actually called, i just thought that's what i called it
[18:26:46] <kaiwai> has a real weed smoking, hash cookies consuming feel to the song
[18:26:59] <WickedWicky> drugs is bad mmkay
[18:27:14] * kaiwai gives WickedWicky a special banana cake
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[18:27:45] * WickedWicky tries to remember the last time he smoked weed
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[18:28:21] <WickedWicky> oh no wait, I am naiev and innocent
[18:28:31] <WickedWicky> I can't even spell naive, so go figure
[18:29:41] <kaiwai> hmm
[18:30:05] <kaiwai> well, tried it all before - made a oath that I would *never* turn into what I saw at my last IT job
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[18:30:55] <WickedWicky> well, living in a somewhat liberated country made me try heaps, but after I turned 23 I decided it was enough.
[18:31:03] * WickedWicky sticks with a beer and a smoke, and that's it
[18:31:04] <oninoshiko> oh whats that, kaiwai?
[18:32:06] <WickedWicky> she saw pink elephants and blue smurfs
[18:32:09] <WickedWicky> or he
[18:32:30] <WickedWicky> dunno but whenever I see .NZ I start thinking about cute tanned surfing girls
[18:32:55] * oninoshiko wouldn't want to turn into a pink elephant 0.0
[18:33:29] <WickedWicky> it's inefficient in a datacenter, being an elephant, that is..
[18:34:31] <sommerfeld> indeed.  most datacenters don't have elephant-sized aisles between the racks.
[18:35:05] <WickedWicky> and I dont see an elephant replace a SCSI backplane or internal disk that easy either
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[18:36:07] <kaiwai> oninoshiko: basically I was working in an IT job that was full of wankers
[18:36:10] <oninoshiko> well elephants never forget... and i bet that takes some hefty mind power... so they probably have telekinesis.... especially the pink ones
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[18:36:40] <WickedWicky> pfff
[18:36:43] <WickedWicky> that's nothing special
[18:37:07] <WickedWicky> my gfs were capable of bringing up crap I did/said 2 years before that, things I'd never think of anymore
[18:37:25] <kaiwai> a boss's girl friend who kept hitting on me, a group of co workers who were dick heads
[18:37:40] <oninoshiko> i was just wondering if maybe we worked together... because i worked one place where it seemed like everyone was either on crack or pot
[18:37:41] <kaiwai> hence I'd never do IT again
[18:38:05] <kaiwai> oninoshiko: I was at an ISP/IT Consultancy
[18:38:12] <kaiwai> in Aussie
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[18:38:29] <oninoshiko> well definitely not the same company
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[18:39:09] <WickedWicky> same here :P
[18:39:38] <kaiwai> anyway, gonna finish my degree and become a teacher
[18:39:46] <kaiwai> crush some young peoples hopes and dreams
[18:39:55] <WickedWicky> lol
[18:40:34] * WickedWicky is listening to "You can't say c*nt in Canada"
[18:40:36] <kaiwai> damn, just had a look at my brothers management paper
[18:40:48] <kaiwai> one would have to be a muppet not to understand it
[18:40:50] <oninoshiko> good luck with that... i don't think i have the patience to teach... at least not at any level below collage tutoring
[18:41:31] <oninoshiko> i don't know... there are some pritty intelligent muppets
[18:41:44] <kaiwai> true
[18:41:57] <kaiwai> I'm still confused, does sun have a marketing department?
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[18:42:27] <oninoshiko> like the one from farscape.... (technically a muppet, as it was done by the jim henson company)
[18:42:46] <kaiwai> ah
[18:43:21] <kaiwai> interesting, people keep just adding points to my posts
[18:43:22] <WickedWicky> as long as you don't have to tutor muppets like animal or gonzo you'll be fine I guess
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[18:44:45] <kito> is nv-b68 abut the best choice if I want to play with zfs boot?
[18:44:57] <kito> s/abut/about/
[18:44:58] <kaiwai> yeap, but it isn't available in the installer though
[18:45:07] <kito> thats fine
[18:45:08] <oninoshiko> YET
[18:45:25] <kaiwai> oninoshiko: true, wait 20 years for it to appear in the installer
[18:45:37] <kito> I'm sure this gets asked a lot, so sorry in advance, but how far down the pipeline is installer support?
[18:45:39] <kito> haha
[18:45:40] <WickedWicky> ok
[18:45:40] <kito> ok
[18:45:41] <kaiwai> some idiot will want to re-write it in java and make it a madatory thing
[18:45:42] * WickedWicky is home
[18:45:44] <WickedWicky> see ya all later
[18:45:48] <kaiwai> ok
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[18:46:35] <oninoshiko> well it could be worse.. you could have me wanting to rewrite it in forth
[18:46:46] <Maverick_Man> has anyone heard of asterisk 1.4.8 stable on opensolaris?
[18:47:29] <zooko> kito: I installed Nexenta CP and it did ZFS boot by default.
[18:47:42] <zooko> It also did mirroring on my two disks by default.  That was nice, as ZFS boot mirrored was exactly what I wanted.
[18:48:05] <kaiwai> ah
[18:48:16] <kaiwai> Zooko; whats the performance like using zfs for boot?
[18:48:38] <zooko> It "feels" fine.  I haven't measured it in any way.
[18:48:50] <kaiwai> but in terms of 'teh snappy'?
[18:49:07] <oninoshiko> the infamous "feel test"
[18:49:13] <kaiwai> yeap
[18:49:18] <zooko> It's a server that I ssh into.  Factors like the network route, and the speed of the hard drives probably dominate over the filesystem, the scheduler, etc...
[18:49:24] <kaiwai> preferably feeling me, but one can't complain
[18:49:27] <zooko> Also factors involving how much coffee I've had yet today, etc.
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[18:49:48] <zooko> So, I definitely don't complain.  I haven't ever had it pause when I was trying to do something, or anything like that.
[18:49:53] <zooko> (Except of course network troubles.)
[18:50:02] <kaiwai> brb
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[18:51:16] <kaiwai> changed to xchat - I had pidgin im for a irc client
[18:51:20] <kaiwai> *hate
[18:51:40] <oninoshiko> i think my BCL is a large contributor to the 'feel test'
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[18:53:24] <gnut> hello all
[18:53:48] <oninoshiko> hello gut, is your BCL appropriate?
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[18:54:04] * oninoshiko giggles
[18:54:18] <gnut> How do I get rid of the AIGLX screen 0 not DRI capable message ... I have an ATI Radeon R250 Mobility FireGL 9000
[18:54:48] <oninoshiko> gnut: you complain to your vendor so they complain to ati to get drivers
[18:55:08] <gnut> oninoshiko: okay. so ATI isn't yet supported by opensolaris for DRI?
[18:55:15] <delewis> gnut: no.
[18:55:21] <oninoshiko> you could also try complaining to ati, but it's unlikely that will help
[18:55:36] <oninoshiko> no you have that backwords, ATI doesnt support opensolaris
[18:55:39] <delewis> the only cards that have 3D hardware acceleration are Nvidia, Intel, and several of Sun's own framebuffers.
[18:55:51] <gnut> oh? Intel?
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[18:56:03] <gnut> so the Intel DRI stuff works now?
[18:56:08] * oninoshiko is a bit sore about this, as i have the FireGL in a thinkpad
[18:56:23] <gnut> I have a FireGL in a Dell.
[18:56:26] <delewis> should on some cards.
[18:56:56] <gnut> I have anotehr machine with an Intel 945GM. haven't solarified it yet.
[18:57:18] <gnut> I will make sure my next laptop has an nvidia card.
[18:57:32] <gnut> oh... one other question
[18:57:42] <gnut> can you use compiz with xinerama?
[18:57:46] <delewis> any particlar reason you *need* 3D acceleration?
[18:57:49] <oninoshiko> im looking and drooling over the T61 as that model DOES use a nvidia card
[18:58:05] <gnut> 3d acceleration? well... compiz!
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[18:58:28] <delewis> that's one of those 3D desktop environments, I take it?
[18:58:36] <kito> because spinning cubes == productivity
[18:58:38] <gnut> blogs.sun.com/erwann
[18:58:53] <gnut> kito: yes. spinning cubes enable me to work faster because things look cooler.
[18:59:14] <kito> totally
[18:59:20] * oninoshiko notes Jef Raskin rolling over in his grave
[19:00:25] <kito> wow, the indiana mailing list is very umm, interesting
[19:00:48] <kito> hooray for 2 week flame wars over whether or not to ship sudo
[19:00:56] <gnut> on a more down to earth note, is it normal for Xorg to frequently take up a large CPU percentage as you browse the web?
[19:01:47] <gnut> dtrace tells me it's a lot of ioctl and pollsys calls
[19:02:00] <gnut> no page swapping
[19:02:34] <delewis> of course its lots of ioctl's and polls -- its an X11 server.
[19:02:42] <delewis> its polling the mouse, etc.
[19:02:55] <delewis> and writing to the framebuffer device, which uses ioctl.
[19:03:07] <gnut> delewis: so it's okay then? that when I move the mouse a lot, it's polling it and taking up 10% CPU?
[19:03:17] <oxygene> oninoshiko: rolling over? he's spinning in 3D!
[19:03:32] * oninoshiko snickers at oxygene
[19:03:34] <gnut> the reason why I ask is because my fan keeps turning on and it's annoying loud
[19:04:10] <oninoshiko> gnut: then id say that you probably don't think its ok... that's just a guess though
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[19:04:36] <gnut> well, the point is to figure out what I should learn to accept.
[19:05:18] <oxygene> compiz - pushing dead UI expert corpse rotation to the third dimension... hm.. too complex a catch phrase
[19:05:57] <oxygene> 10% seems excessive except when running xorg 7.2 on a 386... it's at 1.1% here
[19:06:30] <gnut> 21% now with firefox at 10%
[19:06:35] <gnut> maybe it's when firefox gets on a page with flash.
[19:06:42] <oxygene> might be it, yes
[19:06:42] <gnut> like the yahoo page
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[19:07:07] <delewis> I'm seeing Xsun hit ~ 7% when moving the mouse continuously.
[19:07:12] <oninoshiko> "may i have the serenity to accept what i cannot change, the strength to change what i cannot accept, and the wisdom to know the difference"
[19:07:22] <delewis> and this is on a 650MHz UltraSPARC-IIe.
[19:07:29] <delewis> (not the fastest of systems)
[19:07:42] <oninoshiko> oxygene: i think you should prepose that to them :p
[19:08:37] <oninoshiko> strictly speaking, you can always break out your favorite editor and compiler :p
[19:10:06] <gnut> a sun blade?
[19:10:58] <delewis> Tadpole SPARCbook 6500.
[19:11:10] <delewis> roughly a Blade 150.
[19:11:31] <oxygene> hmm.. I'm wondering if writing a legacy free OS is more or less effort than building a usable opensolaris distro - and glancing over indiana-discuss skews me towards doing the legacy free OS...
[19:12:38] <gnut> is it possible to display one desktop spanning on two computers?
[19:12:43] <kaiwai> depends how you define legacy
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[19:13:02] <kaiwai> delewis: is that on a Blade 150?
[19:13:03] <gnut> i.e., two X11 servers running on two different machines, but they have the same desktop, one the rigth side, and the other the left.
[19:13:40] <gnut> so moving the cursor to the left of one monitor brings it to the monitor on the left (the other machine)
[19:13:46] <kaiwai> it'll be a SPARC IIi as the IIe only ever went up to 500Mhz, you could overclock it to 550Mhz though
[19:13:51] <gnut> so you could make a super desktop (kind of like xinerama, but with multiple machines)
[19:14:16] <delewis> kaiwai: hush.
[19:14:35] <delewis> do yo ever just figure you don't have a clue what you're talking about?
[19:14:45] <delewis> other's listening to you certainly do.
[19:14:58] <kaiwai> delewis: show me a IIe running at 650Mhz
[19:15:06] <kaiwai> come on, step up
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[19:15:12] <delewis> # prtdiag -v | more
[19:15:12] <delewis> System Configuration:  Sun Microsystems  sun4u SPARCbook 6500 (UltraSPARC-IIe 65
[19:15:15] <delewis> 0MHz)
[19:15:27] <kaiwai> interesting, then suns doco is out of date
[19:15:31] <delewis> that looks like a 650MHz UltraSPARC-IIe to me.
[19:15:37] <delewis> no, you're clueless.
[19:15:55] <kaiwai> no, I'm not
[19:16:14] <gnut> how do sun blades compare to Intel processors (sorry, I work mostly with intel machines)
[19:16:27] <gnut> i mean... ultrasparcs
[19:16:30] <delewis> gnut: compare in what regard?
[19:16:40] <zooko> This might be a newbie question, but is it possible to buy a processor whose design is fully open sourced?
[19:16:48] <gnut> well, just a general quick overview of their performance. i tried looking on the web.
[19:16:49] <sommerfeld> my understanding is that the IIe vs IIi difference is one of branding.  first IIe with a IIi with on-chip cache and a couple minor tweaks
[19:16:57] <Auralis> zooko: ultrasparc T1 is GPLed
[19:16:58] <gnut> i have a chance to nab a few sun blade 100s and 150s from work.
[19:17:09] <zooko> I mean, I know that there exists OpenSparc designs, but are the current processors purchaseable from Sun produced from only the open source design?
[19:17:17] <oninoshiko> zooko: yes, its called "Sparc" sun distributes computer built on them
[19:17:21] <delewis> they won't compare to any modern Intel system.
[19:17:24] <kaiwai> delewis: my information is based on http://www.sun.com/processors/UltraSPARC-IIe/
[19:18:00] <sommerfeld> but there are faster processors which are branded as IIi which have all the new stuff present in the IIe as well
[19:18:01] <zooko> A related question -- can I buy a motherboard, CPU and RAM with Sparc CPU for less than, say, $1000?
[19:18:03] <delewis> not the UltraSPARC-IIi and -IIe, anyway, which is what's found in Sun Blade 100s and 150s.
[19:18:16] <delewis> zooko: why not just buy a system?
[19:18:16] <zooko> I just bought a nice new motherboard, Athlon64 3800+, and 4 GiB of RAM for $800 yesterday...
[19:18:28] <gnut> delewis: so a 500 MHz ultrasparc IIe is comparable to a Pentium M? (that old?). I don't have any of those core duos.
[19:18:31] <Auralis> zooko: for 1000 you get entire older systems with 8 cpus and gigs of ram
[19:18:32] <_mary_kate_> you don't normally build sparc systems from parts like that
[19:18:40] <zooko> Auralis: you mean used?
[19:18:45] <delewis> gnut: uh, try, a PII or PIII for most workloads.
[19:18:45] <kaiwai> accordint o http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:ZtIejDtaIS4J:www.tadpole.com/upload/specifications/sparcbook.pdf+SPARCbook+6500&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=nz&client=firefox-a <- I am right
[19:18:45] <Auralis> yes
[19:18:46] <cmn_err> http://tinyurl.com/2hrh4n
[19:19:27] <delewis> kaiwai: the SPARCbook 5500 has a 500MHz UltraSPARC-IIi.
[19:19:36] <delewis> the 6500 has a 650Mhz UltraSPARC-IIe.
[19:19:43] <delewis> do you want me to take a picture of the OBP banner?
[19:20:09] <kaiwai> http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:ZtIejDtaIS4J:www.tadpole.com/upload/specifications/sparcbook.pdf+SPARCbook+6500&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=nz&client=firefox-a
[19:20:10] <cmn_err> http://tinyurl.com/2hrh4n
[19:20:11] <kaiwai> explain taht
[19:20:14] <kaiwai> *that
[19:20:36] <zooko> Sheesh.  Poking at sun.com's "Products" section tells me that the cheapest Sparc workstation costs $2895.00 with 1 GiB of RAM.
[19:20:58] <delewis> zooko: these aren't peecees.
[19:21:03] <zooko> I don't mind the speed of the CPU so much, but I mind the price.
[19:21:06] <delewis> do not use the same metrics.
[19:21:19] <delewis> if you can't understand why its that high, you don't need one.
[19:21:20] <zooko> The metric is: will I buy one?  The measure is: False.
[19:21:30] <delewis> great. You probably don't need one.
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[19:22:07] <gnut> zooko: do you mean GB? GiB implies a billion in the non-base-2 sense
[19:22:08] <delewis> pity he left...
[19:22:11] <delewis> http://farm1.static.flickr.com/125/381112615_b72fad25bb_b.jpg
[19:22:12] <cmn_err> http://tinyurl.com/2s6etb
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[19:23:03] <gnut> delewis: so what is the metric? is it the software? because I'm running solaris x86 on my "peecees" now.
[19:23:42] <delewis> the metric is you buy personal computers. You're looking at a professional, UNIX workstation. big difference.
[19:24:14] <Auralis> you buy a sparc when you need a sparc cpu for the software you want to run
[19:24:15] <gnut> delewis: i'm not trying to ruffle any feathers. forgive my newbieness when it comes to sun stuff. just wondering.
[19:24:28] <gnut> Auralis: so that's why they can charge higher?
[19:24:42] <delewis> because people that need them will pay for them.
[19:24:47] <delewis> they aren't consumer products.
[19:24:59] <gnut> well... my workplace uses software that runs on both sun and linux machines now
[19:25:02] <delewis> and Sun isn't bound by consumer standards when producing them.
[19:25:14] <gnut> and it seems they are moving more towards linux becasue they say PCs are cheaper for the same performance
[19:25:19] <gnut> and I was wondering why...
[19:25:23] <Auralis> they have to charge more, its all about shipment volumes, producing a cpu costs much more if its only a few 100000 in total then several 10tens of milllions
[19:25:36] <delewis> example: "how many cheap peecee components can we throw in there and still produce a system people will pay for?"
[19:26:16] <gnut> I'm not a linux advocate or anti-Sun person. On the contrary. I would like to understand them better, hence I ask.
[19:26:33] <delewis> gnut: do all of your peecees have ECC memory?
[19:26:36] <gnut> hmm... so what I gather is ... it's a scale issue.
[19:26:45] <gnut> delewis: no. as a matter of fact, none do.
[19:27:00] <delewis> every Sun workstation produced since got knows when has ECC memory.
[19:27:03] <gnut> delewis: so you're telling me that suns basically have reliability hardware.
[19:27:06] <delewis> s/got/god/
[19:27:33] <Auralis> sparcs are all about reliability, with the execption at the very lowebd, like blade 100 and so
[19:27:52] <delewis> well, sure, but the point is the consumer doesn't care if ECC memory is there or not. Customers of Sund o.
[19:27:56] <delewis> do*
[19:27:57] <gnut> so they have fantastic uptimes due to their redundancy built-into the hardware... but as far as software goes, you can find the same on a PC with solaris x86, and if you gte the vendor of your apps to port them over to linux/solaris x86
[19:27:59] <Auralis> i still run a sparcsation 10 with 50mhz, which was build close to the dawn of time itself
[19:28:25] <gnut> ok
[19:28:30] <Auralis> and i suspect it will even outlife me
[19:28:35] <delewis> gnut: Linux doesn't care about backwards compatibility.
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[19:28:59] <delewis> I can take an application I built on Solaris 2.5 on a SPARCstation 5 and run it on my Blade 1000 with 2xUltraSPARC-IIIs.
[19:29:10] <delewis> running say, Solaris 11.
[19:29:15] <gnut> okay.
[19:29:19] <gnut> let's forget the linux thing then.
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[19:29:26] <delewis> if I can't, its a bug.
[19:29:27] <Auralis> if you want cheap speed, buy x86, if you want reliable buy sparc, if you have to much money buy power or itanic
[19:29:37] <_mary_kate_> gnut: it's not "sun vs linux".  sun supports linux and you can run it on sun machines.
[19:29:39] <delewis> an x86 does not promise compatibility, either.
[19:29:40] <delewis> SPARC does.
[19:29:43] <_mary_kate_> gnut: and you can run solaris on non-sun machines
[19:29:48] <gnut> if you had to choose a machine to run solaris on, would it be a commodity PC which you could buy cheap or a Sun macihen. the main difference is hardware reliability?
[19:30:03] <delewis> Sun makes cheap systems.
[19:30:15] <delewis> the Ultra 20 is one of the most affordable AMD64 workstations.
[19:30:25] <Auralis> the sun x86 boxes are not more expensive then other vendor x86 boxes
[19:30:35] <nachox> actually you can still run dos in the newest x86 boxes, even if it doesnt promise that in practice it does
[19:30:53] <delewis> its not "cheap" that's the problem. Its the difference between commodity and buying from a real, quality vendor.
[19:31:03] <delewis> nachox: that's not promised, though.
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[19:31:38] <gnut> delewis: i understand. that's what I'm trying to get at. what are you paying for the premium? some quality. what is it? performance or reliability? I'm guessing reliability. Not saying it's bad. just wondering.
[19:31:43] <Auralis> the advantage you get with buying from sun is that you get several years down the road the exact same piec of hardware that just broke in your box
[19:31:47] <delewis> and no, you cannot take your old x86 code and run it on an AMD64.
[19:32:01] <nachox> most do run
[19:32:15] <delewis> given they completely got rid of hardware segmentation management. Should have something that does use that, you're fucked. That's one example.
[19:32:19] <delewis> nachox: "most"
[19:32:23] <_mary_kate_> gnut: on the sparc side there are features like hot-swap system boards (cpu/memory), more redundant hardware, etc
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[19:32:33] <nachox> ahh, yes, amd killed the memory segmentation
[19:32:38] <_mary_kate_> sadly the x86 machines don't have that :)
[19:32:41] <gnut> I do have several complaints of some software that we have at work that runs on linux that also runs on the suns. the sun version seems to hvae less kinks and crashes... but our linux "PC" servers just compute faster.
[19:32:42] <delewis> and several other things.
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[19:32:57] <nachox> but iirc from the manual, those things still exist in 32 bit emulation
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[19:33:08] <delewis> nope.
[19:33:16] <gnut> _mary_kate_: hot swap cpu boards? hmm... interesting.
[19:33:24] <delewis> running 16-bit on AMD64 is basically not going to happen from my understanding.
[19:33:30] <delewis> code*
[19:33:33] * oninoshiko wants to write a distributed redundant emulator
[19:33:57] <Auralis> yes, biger sun boxes have hotswap kitchen sinks
[19:34:05] <oninoshiko> : giggels
[19:34:12] * oninoshiko giggles
[19:34:14] <_mary_kate_> gnut: mirrored RAM on the fuji stuff
[19:34:15] <gnut> maybe i'll pilfer a few of the sun blades and build my own super sub computer
[19:34:30] <delewis> the Blade 100/150 are low-end.
[19:34:33] <Auralis> and you can get x86 with hotswap cpus too, but then they cost the same as sparcs, and most cost actually more
[19:34:35] <delewis> you'll probably be disappointed.
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[19:34:45] <delewis> they were designed to be $1,000 SPARC workstations.
[19:34:48] <delewis> and it shows.
[19:34:55] <_mary_kate_> Auralis: are they commodity (PC-compatible)?  i never saw an OS that supported that..
[19:34:58] <gnut> that's pretty cheap for a sun.
[19:35:03] <delewis> if you want a real workstation, get yourself a Sun Blade 1000/2000.
[19:35:21] <gnut> i'll see what they have
[19:35:26] <delewis> used off eBay and a decent configuration, they go for around $300-$1000.
[19:35:36] <gnut> i'm just interested in the sparc cpus never having worked with them
[19:35:39] <Auralis> mary: not realy, its only a handfull systems that do that, unisys and so
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[19:35:57] <gnut> delewis: how would those compare then to an intel machine?
[19:36:12] <delewis> depends on the workload.
[19:36:18] <Auralis> about the same speed in mhz as a p2/3
[19:36:20] <_mary_kate_> gnut: don't get a blade 1xx, get an Ultra second hand
[19:36:21] <gnut> delewis: sorry, but the intel processors are the only metric I have... not the best, i know.
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[19:36:53] <delewis> well, Intel processors are extremely limited in some ways that a decent system could exploit.
[19:37:18] <delewis> the MMUs, caches, TLBs on UltraSPARCs are far more sophisticated
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[19:37:44] <delewis> the AMD64s MMUs are still quite simplistic compared to an UltraSPARC MMU from 10 years ago.
[19:38:02] <oninoshiko> gnut: its going to depend on what your code does, some code is more suited to different processor... in reality it normally doesnt matter as the system is "fast enough" or your running a cluster anyway
[19:38:10] <delewis> very few large page sizes, and very few large page entries in the TLB of an AMD64.
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[19:40:20] <gnut> i'll see what my manager has available for me to take away
[19:40:38] <gnut> but thanks for the help.
[19:41:13] <gnut> heheh.. a qucik check on ebay (i know it's not over yet) shows a sun blade 100 going for $30
[19:41:51] <nachox> those sun blades are the ones with the DMA problems?
[19:42:10] <Auralis> the blade 100 are those with the existance problem
[19:42:37] <gnut> DMA problems?
[19:43:08] * oninoshiko watches a Sun Blade 100 become a black hole?
[19:43:23] <Auralis> the blade 100/150 are real lowend systems, they where the first 64bit systems  costing less then 1000 bucks, that was 6 years ago.
[19:43:37] <Auralis> they where crap back then and did not get better
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[19:43:52] <Auralis> but they where several times cheaper then other 64bit machines back then
[19:43:57] <Auralis> which made them usefull for developers
[19:44:06] <delewis> a factor of 10 compared to Sun's real workstations at the time.
[19:44:12] <delewis> a Blade 1000 was roughly $10,000 base.
[19:44:31] <nachox> and now they are $30 ... :)
[19:44:32] * oninoshiko wants 10k
[19:44:47] <delewis> $300, you mean. :-P\
[19:44:48] <Auralis> their whole purpose was to give developers a cheap 64bit machien, a job whichit does fine
[19:44:55] <delewis> they're still fine systems, though.
[19:45:15] <oninoshiko> that reminds me, i need to check how much mondy i have before i go to lunch
[19:45:24] <oninoshiko> money*
[19:45:24] <delewis> I've got 2xUltraSPARC-III 750MHz procs, 2GB of memory, and an XVR-1000 in mine, and I can't find a reason to have anything faster.
[19:45:58] <Auralis> a blade 1000 on the other hand is build like a tank, weights like a tank and feels like a tank and was back at its release the fastest system you could buy
[19:46:16] <nightswim> and it makes the noise of a tank?
[19:46:21] <Auralis> nope
[19:46:25] <delewis> 8MB ecache/proc.
[19:46:26] <oninoshiko> *BOOM*
[19:46:35] <Auralis> its a quiet machine
[19:46:40] <oninoshiko> if you drop it off the roof it does :p
[19:46:49] <oninoshiko> >:p
[19:46:52] <delewis> I can barely hear mine.
[19:47:06] <delewis> there's a reason they have an LED in the front, you know.
[19:47:14] <delewis> that's about the only way you can tell if one is turned on.
[19:47:47] <Auralis> the glowing sun logo is badass
[19:47:59] <delewis> yep, especially with the lights off. :-)
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[19:48:00] <nachox> if you unplug it and someone start complaining, then it was on :)
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[19:49:23] <gnut> how many processors does the blade 1000 hvae?
[19:49:30] <Auralis> 2
[19:49:31] <oninoshiko> yes, users do make wonderful replacements for system monitoring apps
[19:49:54] <Stric> gnut: 1 or 2
[19:49:54] <cmn_err> 3
[19:50:07] <Stric> or rather.. 0 to 2..
[19:50:13] * oninoshiko is done being a smart@$$ for now... "Lunchtime!"
[19:50:19] <kito> I'm having a hard time figuring out how to divvy up a 4 x sataII disk system for a fresh install... will be primarily for postgres and serving static web content. I thought about trying zfs boot, but I'm a little scared... any suggestions?
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[19:52:02] <gnut> i know it's a hard thing to answer, but i'm just wondering why the application we run at work performs faster on our linux machine. it could be that it was a more expensive machine so its' not a fair comparison.
[19:52:28] <gnut> but it's numerically very floating-point intensive, so somewhere along the line, someone made the decision to buy the opteron/octagon/dodecahedron whatever server and did some quick tests and claimed sun sucked
[19:52:28] <Stric> blade1000's were pretty expensive when new ;)
[19:52:33] <nachox> what application?
[19:52:48] <Stric> what cpus in the linux box?
[19:52:59] <nachox> opterons i assume
[19:53:20] <Auralis> opterons are damn fast, as are core2 intels
[19:53:27] <Auralis> and they are cheap
[19:53:33] <Stric> blade1000 is a very old product
[19:53:41] <axisys> is there command I can run besides parsing the zfs list -H -o name and send mount to each?
[19:53:44] <Stric> kinda hard to beat a modern machine
[19:53:48] <axisys> in single user mode that is
[19:53:58] <gnut> cadence
[19:54:01] <Stric> axisys: zfs mount -a  ?  depending on what you want to do
[19:54:12] <nachox> Auralis: i really am looking forward to the new amd stuff though
[19:54:40] <gnut> well, i guess what it boils down to is... they aren't doing a fair comparison (rarely is that done in a corporate environment?) and I just want to know the right one so I can see for myself.
[19:54:43] <Stric> gnut: look at spec.org and you'll see that ultrasparcs are having a hard time against opteron/c2d
[19:54:57] <axisys> Stric: cool .. thats it.. thnx
[19:55:09] <gnut> Stric: cool
[19:55:42] <Stric> and if you additionally compare a 5+ year old computer with something new, well, you're bound to get its ass kicked
[19:56:29] <gnut> is there any way to sort this? so i see the fastest first?
[19:56:35] <Auralis> my e4000 still holds its ground against a 2ghz opteron with the right applications
[19:56:47] <gnut> Stric: i know. that's why I want to see how the rigt way to compare is.
[19:56:56] <Stric> Auralis: your e4000 with 10 cpus vs 1?
[19:57:05] <Auralis> 8x250mhz
[19:57:19] <Stric> gnut: the right way is to compare product A with the software you are interested in vs product B with the software you are interested in
[19:57:22] <Stric> nothing else matters
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[19:58:18] <gnut> thanks.
[19:58:19] <spiff> I'm trying to get my head around the inner workings of DS ACIs and pam_ldap...I'd like to create an ACI to deny certain users access based on what ou=hostgrou they're in. Anyone know how to get that working?
[19:58:29] <zooko> gnut: I use "GiB" to indicate 2^30.  That's what wikipedia suggests, too.
[19:58:36] <sommerfeld> Auralis: you should try out a T1000 or T2000
[19:58:40] <zooko> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GiB
[19:58:45] <trygvis> spiff: let me know if you figure it out :)
[19:58:54] <trygvis> AFAIK you have to use an additional module to get that going
[19:58:55] <Auralis> sommerfeld: do you give me the money? :)
[19:59:04] <Stric> gnut: but if you're looking for raw cpu grunt these days, opteron or core2duo xeons are a good bet. or possibly itanic if you're perverted.
[19:59:22] <Stric> sommerfeld: he said "very floating-point intensive".. that rules out niagara1
[19:59:23] <sommerfeld> Auralis: your electric utility will
[19:59:25] <sommerfeld> oh.
[19:59:28] <sommerfeld> wait for N2 then
[19:59:39] <spiff> trygvis: after days, this is how far I got: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.unix.aix/browse_thread/thread/fc26e34940e357a7/a81525c0dd780a01?lnk=st&q=elaan%40dds.nl+aci&rnum=1#a81525c0dd780a01
[19:59:39] <cmn_err> http://tinyurl.com/2yuhrd
[19:59:48] <Stric> sommerfeld: err. hm. gnut said fpu.. Auralis didn't say anything ;)
[19:59:50] <spiff> sorry for the long url.
[20:00:14] <sickness> itanic = linux | hpuke = sux :P
[20:01:05] * quasi just finished a project to kill an itanic server and replacing it with a t2k ;)
[20:01:33] <sickness> eheh
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[20:02:11] <nachox> quasi: the hostname of that t2k has to be either iceberg or torpedo
[20:02:27] <gnut> zooko: hmm.. you're right. I could have sworn it was the other way around, but tmaybe I'm just outdated. thanks for the pointert.
[20:02:28] <sickness> lol
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[20:02:45] <oxygene> nachox: iceberg fits the coolthread meme better, I think
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[20:03:09] <nachox> sommerfeld: when will those be released?
[20:03:28] <gnut> zooko: i guess the hard drive manufacturers win out and get to keep their prefixes
[20:03:40] <nachox> oxygene: torpedos are cool too :)
[20:03:53] <quasi> nachox: nope, it is aurora but that's just because it is an offsite clone of eos
[20:03:57] <sommerfeld> nachox: if I knew, they'd kill me if I told you.
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[20:04:37] <zooko> gnut: in practice, I try to avoid ambiguity by writing "10^9" or "2^30"...  Or I write "million" instead of "M" if I mean "10^6"...
[20:04:39] <sommerfeld> not to mention the historic enemy of the titanic
[20:04:41] <nachox> sommerfeld: bummer, i thought there was a timeline at least
[20:04:44] <zooko> Unfortunately "billion" is also ambiguous in a way...  :-/
[20:04:48] <zooko> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billion
[20:04:53] <sommerfeld> nachox: there is a timeline.  I don't know what it is.
[20:05:02] <richlowe> There have been vague times stated on investor thingies and such, I think.
[20:05:07] <nachox> a publicly available one
[20:05:08] <richlowe> so go find one, and look.
[20:05:16] <sommerfeld> zooko: in practice, there is context which makes MB and GB unambiguous.
[20:05:29] <zooko> sommerfeld: often that is true.
[20:05:41] <sommerfeld> and IMHO,  MiB and GiB look silly
[20:05:46] <gnut> zooko: nah. you're doing it right. i just was confused.
[20:06:13] <gnut> how about a milliard bytes?
[20:06:23] <zooko> sommerfeld: sometimes it is ambiguous, and especially when less technical readers/users are involved.
[20:06:24] <nachox> richlowe: i bet the theregister guys already know :P
[20:06:30] <_mary_kate_> how about "a shit tonne of bytes"
[20:06:31] <zooko> Although calling it "MiB" instead of "MB" doesn't really help those folks.
[20:06:58] <zooko> But calling it "million" and meaning "10^6" is appropriate for less technical readers.
[20:06:59] <richlowe> _mary_kate_: bah, I'd assume that was TB, and fucktonne a PB
[20:07:00] <nachox> 2nd half of 2007 according to a first google search
[20:07:35] <gnut> if you're talking less technical, 10^9 and 2^30 makes no difference.
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[20:08:38] <WickedWicky> yellows
[20:09:01] <gnut> alright. signing off. must get to work.
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[20:09:32] <sommerfeld> MB/GB/etc should always in 2^N units.  Mbit/s, Gbit/s should always be in 10^N units
[20:09:56] <sommerfeld> storage marketers which describe capacity in 10^N units should be drawn and quartered
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[20:15:11] <quasi> http://www.flickr.com/photos/colmmacc/sets/72157600433106020/ - the hp-itanic to sun-t2k (along with osx server to x2200)
[20:15:12] <cmn_err> http://tinyurl.com/2mnmz3
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[20:16:58] <_mary_kate_> does anyone know the meaning of this iscsi message? Jul 24 14:35:46 clematis iscsi: [ID 286457 kern.notice] NOTICE: iscsi connection(14) unable to connect to target iqn.2002-10.com.infortrend:raid.sn7295750.10 (errno:145)
[20:17:09] <_mary_kate_> it seems to make devfsadm slow, but the iscsi device is working fine
[20:17:10] <nachox> quasi: what's on top of that niagra box?
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[20:18:12] <quasi> nachox: x2200
[20:19:11] <quasi> nachox: looking at the image in the large size, the label is just readable
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[20:19:49] <nachox> i have a crappy screen and my eyes leave much to be desired, sorry
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[20:20:46] <nachox> but yes, i can read that now
[20:23:10] <Stric> quasi: and in Original size, it's not hard at all ;)
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[20:30:33] <palowoda> Uggh, after trying to install several versions of Linux in order to get a vmware host running I feel so unclean at it was like God wanted to put me through some sort of torture test.  I still don't see how the industry can think this is reasonable. Back to Solaris.
[20:30:52] <elijahwright> purgatory ;)
[20:31:20] * quasi really should write up the operation in a blog entry, but I'm still waiting to see if the itanic has a future as a boat anchor or something like that
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[20:34:06] * WickedWicky is flashing Silicon 680 controllers
[20:34:08] <WickedWicky> wish me luck
[20:34:13] <myrkraverk> palowoda, is it so much work to port the vmware driver and patch brandz to make it work in a zone?
[20:35:46] <nachox> myrkraverk: vmware requires some linux kernel modules unfortunately
[20:36:08] <palowoda> If I want to use a zone I'll use a solaris zone.  I'm just suprised at what the vm industry puts up with on the linux side.
[20:36:09] <myrkraverk> nachox, yes, that's what I'm talking about porting, and patching brandz to forward that interface
[20:36:14] <axisys> anyone knows if Darren Reed hangs out here?
[20:36:45] <sbahra> delewis, AMD64 *and* UltraSparcIII both support 4 page sizes.
[20:36:48] <axisys> i wanted to find out if it is ok to install ipf latest on sol 8
[20:36:49] <richlowe> axisys: don't think so.
[20:36:49] <myrkraverk> palowoda, yes, I'm surprised too (I'm a linux escapee)
[20:36:58] <axisys> hmm
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[20:37:23] <axisys> on sol 8 7/01 if ipf 4.1.24 can be compiled
[20:37:36] <elijahwright> i kinda thought that the CSW packages were all targeted at 8 - has that changed, now?
[20:38:02] <nachox> i'm off, later guys
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[20:38:08] <axisys> elijahwright: they are available for sol 8,9, 10 and probably older version
[20:38:26] <elijahwright> i thought i saw a compat cheat sheet one day....
[20:38:30] <axisys> elijahwright: have u tried to run csw version pkg-get
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[20:38:41] <palowoda> axisys: Why would Darren really care about older versions of solaris?  Isn't that called backporting and support issues.
[20:38:46] <elijahwright> not in a while :-)  it hosed a machine for me once.
[20:39:02] <axisys> palowoda: wasn;t the snwer i was expecting.. but thnx
[20:39:07] <_mary_kate_> palowoda: who is going to backport it if not the author of the software?
[20:39:23] <elijahwright> i would try compile from source and test it, if you need it to work there....
[20:39:25] <zooko> sommerfeld: kilobyte and megabyte and gigabyte are SI units, just like kilometer, kilogram, kilojoule, etc..  Scientists world-wide agree that "kilo" means 10^3 and "mega" means 10^6.
[20:39:36] <palowoda> If it's not going to be backpoarted by Sun that what the issue?
[20:39:37] <zooko> Unfortunately computer programmers world-wide disagree, when referring to bulk storage of bytes.
[20:39:47] <zooko> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megabyte
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[20:40:17] <zooko> So I prefer to avoid arguing over what "MB" should mean by not using "MB".
[20:40:34] <elijahwright> eh, the problem is whether to use powers of 2 or powers of 10 - 2^10 and 10^3 just happen to be close together.
[20:40:42] <axisys> which version ipfilter can be safely compiled on sol 8 7/01 .. anyone can guess?
[20:41:22] <elijahwright> you should try the latest.  if it doesn't build, file a bug.............. ;)
[20:41:37] <Stric> I have 3.4.28 which I compiled on roughly that sol8.. using it on sol9 too
[20:41:45] <zooko> I think it is a bit of an unfortunate historical accident.  The difference between 10^3 and 2^10 is only 2.5%.
[20:41:50] <zooko> So people decided to "approximate".
[20:42:06] <elijahwright> *nod*  math with 10^3 is easier but less accurate.
[20:42:24] <zooko> But the difference between 10^12 and 2^40 is 10%.
[20:42:43] <zooko> I'm a lot less comfortable telling a non-technical user a number that is 10% off of what they think it is than 2.5% off.
[20:43:05] <zooko> I use base-2 all the time, of course, but I just try to use different units when I'm doing base-2 than when I'm doing base-10.
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[20:43:10] <elijahwright> just tell them how many bits there are and be done.  ;)
[20:43:15] <zooko> :-)
[20:43:32] <zooko> Here is your new 8796093022208 bit storage area!
[20:44:13] <elijahwright> exactly.  and when they ask how many GB it is... tell them "XYZ formatted capacity", not XYZ-10% gigs :-)
[20:44:38] <elijahwright> [wow, that made shockingly little sense.]
[20:44:42] <zooko> I prefer, when communicating with less technical users, to use base-10 exclusively.
[20:44:55] <zooko> If they ask how much something is, I like to say "1 billion bytes".
[20:45:10] <zooko> I work on storage apps, so I care about this tuff.
[20:45:11] <zooko> ^s
[20:45:14] <zooko> http://allmydata.org
[20:45:15] <elijahwright> we have a faculty member that we have to tell 'formatted capacity' of everything she buys... because she doesn't grok why her 10T RAID is only like 7T available.
[20:45:26] <zooko> :-)
[20:46:23] <palowoda> Tell them they lost 3T of porn.
[20:46:52] <elijahwright> this person probably likes the really nasty stuff, that's a scary thing to suggest.  ;-)
[20:46:55] <richlowe> "If bits were equivalent to acres, your drive would be 1,713,274.4 times the size of wales"
[20:46:58] <richlowe> that should do it.
[20:47:01] <zooko> :-)
[20:47:32] <elijahwright> <snark factor="high" />
[20:47:56] <Andromalius> is there a free windows utility to partition a drive and format ufs?
[20:48:17] <palowoda> No.
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[21:00:16] <axisys> ipfilter's majordomo mailing list seems broken.. it does not take my subscribe ipfilter command in the body.. says invalid command
[21:00:21] <axisys> i tried three times
[21:00:32] <CIA-26> mh27603: 6584239 CPU power management additions to processor_info_t potentially break processor_info() consumers.
[21:00:32] <axisys> so no way to talk to darren reed.. damn!
[21:01:28] <_mary_kate_> axisys: shout really loudly
[21:02:00] <oninoshiko> its good to see that the smart@$$ slack was picked up in my absence
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[21:03:26] <elijahwright> heh
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[21:04:02] <richlowe> afternoon comay
[21:04:18] <sbahra> axisys, e-mail him
[21:04:24] <comay> hey there richlowe
[21:04:25] <SymmHome> anyone here tried to install jboss directly from the cli on a headless system and if so htf did they get it to install
[21:04:29] <axisys> _mary_kate_: shit! my co-workers looking  at me like i sh'dnt shout ..hehe
[21:04:34] <axisys> _mary_kate_: :P
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[21:04:59] <axisys> sbahra: i dont know his email.. is it darren.reed at sun dot com ?
[21:05:24] <axisys> might get redirected to spam folder
[21:06:01] <_mary_kate_> is it possible that a bad disk can give incorrect data on reads/writes before it actually fails?
[21:06:02] <oninoshiko> it also might noew
[21:06:05] <oninoshiko> not*
[21:06:35] <kito> do zones benefeit from intel VT at all?
[21:06:40] <oninoshiko> _mary_kate_: yes, slo can a bad controller and power supply
[21:06:45] <oninoshiko> so*
[21:07:05] <oninoshiko> probibly mainboard too
[21:07:18] <myrkraverk> so, you bad controller, now you're going to get your birthday spanking!
[21:07:29] <_mary_kate_> i'm fairly sure at least the disk is bad.. anything else i'll worry about after that :)
[21:07:33] <myrkraverk> (couldn't resist)
[21:07:49] <elijahwright> it'd probably take a kernel modification for VT to do much for zones
[21:08:06] <oninoshiko> ohh! please do! =^.^=
[21:08:59] <myrkraverk> is there an ext2/3 driver for solaris?
[21:09:04] <oninoshiko> no.
[21:09:08] <myrkraverk> ok
[21:09:19] <_mary_kate_> myrkraverk: yes, somewhere on the internets
[21:09:43] <myrkraverk> bbl; reboot and install excr (gnu I hate dual boots)
[21:09:46] <gdamore> movement: if you're still here, afe and mxfe are admtek and macronix tulip variants.  linksys lne-100tx is probably the most common, but also a bunch of cardbus devices.
[21:09:58] <zooko> Heh.
[21:10:09] <zooko> I just ran my app on OpenSolaris for the first time and it got "Too many open files".
[21:10:27] <_mary_kate_> zooko: default fd limit is like 256
[21:10:31] <zooko> Hm.
[21:10:44] <tsoome> for 32 bit apps
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[21:17:01] <elijahwright> hey, what build do you have to be on to get xen working sanely?
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[21:17:56] <trygvis> linux probably
[21:18:16] <palowoda> 66, and xen sanity has something to be desired.
[21:18:25] <trygvis> let me know if you find a solution on opensolaris :)
[21:18:27] <elijahwright> i saw a consolidated blob of xen crap for solaris announced the other day
[21:18:32] <libkeiser> kito: that wouldn't make any sense. zones aren't virtualized at that level -- there's only one kernel
[21:20:08] <kito> libkeiser yeah, sorry, I just read a little more and realized that
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[21:22:54] <oninoshiko> im about to try the blob of xen crap
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[21:30:33] <axisys> ipfiletr 4.1.10 compiles on sol 8 7/01 fine.. but not 4.1.2,15,16,17 or 24
[21:32:28] <sickness> again, someone should really port pf on solaris =)
[21:32:46] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: ping!
[21:32:52] <palowoda> Again nobody really cares about Solaris 8.
[21:32:56] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: Do you know whether kupfer is still on vaction.
[21:33:03] <nrubsig> ?
[21:33:49] <sommerfeld> nrubsig: no idea
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[21:39:27] * nrubsig kicks etna.sfbay.sun.com and prays that the machine suffers a horrible death (water, lightning, shoes etc.)
[21:40:21] <nrubsig> Is it possible that today is a official holiday in the US ? It's .... quiet.
[21:40:37] <richlowe> most of the more vocal people are at OSCON
[21:40:48] <richlowe> the rest are busy, most likely.
[21:41:13] <g4lt-mordant> speaking of cons, anyone going to defcon?
[21:43:15] <sommerfeld> today is not an official holiday in the US
[21:43:35] <sommerfeld> people may be off finishing up Harry Potter book 7
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[21:43:45] <richlowe> but it's a great day to not be staring at a monitor though.
[21:44:58] <nrubsig> richlowe: I have to stare since April has a weired problem which prevents us from doing the putback and I have zero clue where the crash comes from... ;-(
[21:49:01] <Stric> is there a way to up the speed of the console through alom? eventhough I'm going through network (ssh), it seems to be 9600baud:ish..
[21:49:13] <_mary_kate_> Stric: yes, but don't bother
[21:49:18] <_mary_kate_> Stric: everything expects 9600, easiest to leave it
[21:49:39] <_mary_kate_> actually, i'm not certain about alom.. i know it is possible on the x86 ilom stuff
[21:49:53] <Stric> since there is no serial stuff involved, I'd rather not be limited by "default serial speed"
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[21:50:06] <_mary_kate_> alom is emulating a serial port, isn't it?
[21:50:09] <sommerfeld> Stric: don't be so sure
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[21:51:38] <Stric> ok, I'll rephrase.. I'm not doing any db9/db25/rj45 serial port stuff..
[21:51:50] <_mary_kate_> as far as solaris is concerned, you are
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[21:52:04] <Stric> Error: configuration of parameter <ser_baudrate> failed as it is read only.
[21:52:09] <Stric> that one isn't it at least..
[21:55:32] <blueandwhiteg3> Very simply, what is the fastest way to format a straight up drive under solaris? (i.e. not ZFS etc)
[21:55:38] <blueandwhiteg3> format then...?
[21:55:45] <elijahwright> mkfs?
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[21:55:52] <Stric> define "format" ?
[21:55:57] <tomww> blueandwhiteg3: x86 or sparc ?
[21:56:00] <blueandwhiteg3> x86
[21:56:00] <_mary_kate_> blueandwhiteg3: newfs
[21:56:08] <blueandwhiteg3> so format, then mkfs?
[21:56:11] <_mary_kate_> newfs
[21:56:12] <elijahwright> *smacks self in head*
[21:56:14] <elijahwright> newfs
[21:56:15] <Stric> are you trying to build a partition table / slices, put a filesystem there or what?
[21:56:20] <elijahwright> mkfs is a linuxism
[21:56:32] <tomww> on x86 you have the chioce:
[21:56:38] <_mary_kate_> there is a mkfs on solaris, but it's not the one you want
[21:56:39] <blueandwhiteg3> just stick a file system on there and store some files temporarily
[21:56:42] <tomww> put ZFS with an EFI-label to use the whole disk
[21:56:47] <_mary_kate_> newfs calls mkfs with appropriate parameters
[21:56:57] <Stric> blueandwhiteg3: then format and newfs
[21:57:03] <blueandwhiteg3> alright
[21:57:17] <tomww> or, use format -> slect disk -> fdisk -> do DOSsis parttions right -> back to format and define your soalris slices
[21:57:33] <_mary_kate_> blueandwhiteg3: it's really easier to create a zfs fs than a ufs fs
[21:57:41] <tomww> after that put a ZFS or ufs on the disk
[21:57:42] <_mary_kate_> blueandwhiteg3: zpool create pool c1t0d0 -> done!
[21:57:53] <blueandwhiteg3> hahahaha
[21:58:01] <blueandwhiteg3> i was thinking... surely a zpool would be overkill
[21:58:06] <tomww> really?
[21:58:15] <blueandwhiteg3> but yes, i am familiar with zpool, and it sounds like there's no reason not to...
[21:58:20] <_mary_kate_> you don't even need to format the disk, zfs will put a EFI label on it
[21:58:26] <blueandwhiteg3> i can see that
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[22:00:29] <CIA-26> gm209912: 6584660 fix cstyle error in sip_dialog.c
[22:00:31] <CIA-26> fr157268: 6535160 Lock contention on zl_lock from zil_commit
[22:00:32] <CIA-26> krgopi: 6582448 ip_find_unused_squeue() calls cpu_get() without holding cpu_lock
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[22:03:13] <blueandwhiteg3> that's hilarious, i should have just made a zpool in the first place
[22:03:24] <blueandwhiteg3> i thought that somehow it was overkill
[22:03:36] <e^ipi> ZFS is never overkill
[22:04:03] <blueandwhiteg3> haha
[22:04:45] <oninoshiko> ZFSFTW
[22:04:49] <e^ipi> zfs is just-enough-kill
[22:05:19] <_mary_kate_> zfs is so nice to use i want to buy more disks just to create zpools on them
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[22:05:52] <oninoshiko> i just wish i could add disks to my raidz...
[22:06:03] <Stric> or remove disks from a pool
[22:06:20] <blueandwhiteg3> growing!
[22:06:29] <blueandwhiteg3> that's why i am offloading my entire raid
[22:06:37] <blueandwhiteg3> i want to add a drive
[22:06:50] <oninoshiko> then i will consider it purrrfect
[22:07:07] *** crossblaim has quit IRC
[22:07:12] <_mary_kate_> also, database performance comparable to/exceeding traditional filesystems
[22:07:25] <blueandwhiteg3> is there any way to improve the throughput of USB?
[22:07:40] * oninoshiko considers data to be more important then preformance
[22:07:41] <_mary_kate_> blueandwhiteg3: make sure you're using a 2.0 port, some computers have both
[22:08:16] <blueandwhiteg3> i'm using USB 2 AFAIK (the drive is and so is the computer) and it is estimating 14 some hours to copy ~400 GB
[22:08:52] <blueandwhiteg3> i might as well plug the drive into another computer and copy it all over the  network
[22:08:55] <_mary_kate_> 8MB/sec... for USB, that doesn't seem all that bad
[22:09:53] <Saltsa> well, it should be something near 40MB/s...
[22:10:07] <blueandwhiteg3> USB 2 usually peaks around 30-35 MB/sec
[22:10:08] <oninoshiko> IVE GOT IT... use not-RAID ('RAID 0' to all you people who dont know why 'RAID' 0 isnt RAID) across multiple USB drives!
[22:10:50] <blueandwhiteg3> Great, I started the copy in the GUI and it won't cancel
[22:11:04] * WickedWicky is getting officialy moody
[22:13:18] <Stric> blueandwhiteg3: large files or gazillion of small files?
[22:13:25] <blueandwhiteg3> large files
[22:16:45] *** alanc-away is now known as alanc
[22:17:26] <richlowe> Hey alanc.
[22:17:27] <alanc> scary - the S10 8/07 release notes list http://people.freedesktop.org/~alanc/dtrace in the new features list
[22:17:37] <richlowe> alanc: I see you were nearly right.
[22:17:45] <_mary_kate_> alanc: are they public?
[22:18:08] <alanc> _mary_kate_: no, I'm reviewing the final draft
[22:18:28] <alanc> making sure they got the bits right about Xorg 7.2 & the dtrace Xserver provider
[22:18:35] <Stric> so s10 8/07 will be available in november..
[22:19:01] <richlowe> but the date based naming makes in *simpler*, damnit!
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[22:19:19] <alanc> it should be available in november, since I don't think we'll pull it at the end of october
[22:19:31] <oninoshiko> it will ALLEGEDLY be available in november
[22:19:39] <oninoshiko> November
[22:20:17] <quasi> Stric: eh? november?
[22:20:26] <Stric> quasi: just making random predictions :)
[22:20:42] <alanc> oh, hrm, the Xorg 7.2 bit is in the new features list under "Device Drivers"
[22:20:50] <Stric> the release name dates and real release dates haven't been followed 100% lately ;)
[22:21:11] * quasi throws the spare itanic at Stric - don't scare me like that
[22:21:32] <quasi> Stric: well, it was 7/07...
[22:21:46] * Stric has no Sun affiliation other than using their products and sending them money every now and then
[22:22:16] <alanc> The Xorg server for the X11 window system, the associated graphics, and the input device drivers, have been upgraded to the X11R7.2 release. The X11R7.2 release includes the Xorg server version 1.2. This release also adds 64-bit versions of the Xorg server for both x64 and SPARC platforms, though drivers for common SPARC graphics devices are not yet available for Xorg.
[22:22:16] <alanc> This release also includes the Xephyr nested X server and the Xorg version of Xvfb, both of which are installed in the /usr/X11/bin directory. This version of Xorg no longer supports the Low Bandwidth X (LBX) extension. The use of the X tunneling and compression features of ssh(1) is suggested for sites that need X displays across extremely bandwidth-limited network links.
[22:22:33] <_mary_kate_> what is "7/07 HW"?  is that different from 8/07?
[22:22:54] <alanc> it's just the what's new though, so I don't get to see our new "DIE XSUN DIE!" notice in the EOF list
[22:23:24] <alanc> 7/07 HW is a special platform specific release for hardware sales that couldn't wait until 8/07 was out
[22:23:25] <richlowe> 7/07 HW is a HW release, 8/07 is the update.
[22:23:41] <alanc> like all HW releases, it's only supported on the exact hardware it was created for
[22:23:49] <richlowe> OPL.
[22:24:02] <alanc> (I think it's 2 or 3 builds before the final s10u4 build)
[22:24:03] <hile_> like the original release on the niagara boxes, IIRC
[22:26:04] * alanc taunts richlowe: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg-announce/2007-July/000327.html
[22:26:22] <alanc> yet another new version of setxkbmap we don't have in Solaris 8-)
[22:28:49] <zooko> Yep.  This app is using up all 256 fds on Solaris.
[22:28:55] <richlowe> alanc: bah.
[22:29:15] <zooko> So I need to solve several problems: 1.  Why is it using more fds on Solaris than on Linux or Windows?  2.  Why does my Python interpreter seg fault after this happens.
[22:29:25] <_mary_kate_> zooko: did you spend all this time working that out?  increasing the fd limit is fairly easy
[22:29:26] <zooko> Unfortunately I can't really justify spending more time on the Solaris port today.
[22:29:32] <alanc> though the install people did ask today when they'll be able to change keyboard layouts at runtime in X easily...
[22:29:33] <zooko> _mary_kate_: no, I went to lunch.
[22:29:57] <richlowe> alanc: exactly!
[22:29:59] <zooko> And this app needs to Just Work without bothering the user.  Automatically increasing its fd limit would be okay, but I still want to know the answers to questions #1 and #2 first.
[22:30:12] <Stric> zooko: in solaris, 32bit apps using the FILE* interface will be limited to 256 fds.. unless you're using newly implemented stuff that requires manual workarounds when starting the app..
[22:30:40] <zooko> Thanks for the help mary_kate and Stric.
[22:31:26] <zooko> If you want to help me port this open source app to OpenSolaris, download the tarball from allmydata.org and run "make test".  In any case, I'll be back once I have some more urgent tasks completed.
[22:31:55] *** alanc is now known as alanc-away
[22:42:31] <nrubsig> Stric: in the future you can use -I/usr/include/ast/ -last to get an alternative <stdio.h> which works better.
[22:44:30] <Stric> nrubsig: ah.
[22:48:19] *** zooko has quit IRC
[22:50:44] <nrubsig> is src.opensolaris.org down ?
[22:51:55] <richlowe> Looks like it.
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[22:53:26] <nrubsig> How am I supposed to do bug hunting with both src.opensolaris.org and bugs.opensolaris.org down ?
[22:53:39] <e^ipi> locally install opengrok?
[22:53:48] * nrubsig kicks e^ipi
[22:53:58] <nrubsig> e^ipi: I need the damn file history.
[22:54:14] <e^ipi> hg pull
[22:54:15] <nrubsig> e.g. the changes for 6455532
[22:54:26] <hile_> take a break, go find a woman
[22:54:35] <nrubsig> what is a woman ?
[22:54:44] <e^ipi> those things with boobs
[22:55:01] <nrubsig> you mean the species which lays eggs ?
[22:55:05] <tomww> #define woman
[22:55:10] <oninoshiko> blow-up dolls?
[22:55:13] <tomww> wich include-file needed?
[22:55:13] <Abe_Froman> #define WOMAN trouble
[22:55:19] <e^ipi> heh
[22:55:24] <richlowe> nrubsig: which file?
[22:55:31] <richlowe> ah, nm.
[22:56:01] <nrubsig> richlowe: I need the whole diff for "6455532 OSNet cleanup required in preparation for direct bindings". My instinct says it has something todo with our problem.
[22:56:49] <moazamraja> blogs.sun.com is down.
[22:56:53] <moazamraja> how will I love?!?!?!?
[22:56:56] <moazamraja> love = live.
[22:57:15] <quasi> moazamraja: yeah. that's really annoying
[22:57:45] <moazamraja> hmm, http://forum.sun.com/ down also
[22:57:54] <nrubsig> Sun went backrupt and couldn't pay it's internet fees anymore.
[22:58:33] *** vmlemon_ has joined #opensolaris
[22:59:18] * oninoshiko cries
[22:59:22] *** vmlemon has quit IRC
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[22:59:42] <quasi> blogs.s.c down probably means people missing good fun like http://www.crypticide.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/spoiler.jpg
[22:59:43] <cmn_err> http://tinyurl.com/29zkpg
[22:59:57] <oninoshiko> hrm... that means 1/2 this channel wont be getting a paycheck
[23:00:58] <oninoshiko> lol
[23:01:02] <sommerfeld> bah, partial spoiler
[23:02:05] <palowoda> Here is the problem: http://chime.tv/#aloha/2vkb5
[23:02:31] *** noyb has quit IRC
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[23:03:01] <nachox> osol.org is having problems right?
[23:03:22] <nrubsig> nachox: Sun went backrupt and couldn't pay it's internet fees anymore.
[23:03:25] <richlowe> comay: I think this is about the point you go find stevel and totally ruin his day :)
[23:03:36] <nrubsig> nachox: see NasdaQ newsticker
[23:04:03] <samtb> hiya, i'm getting "Error 20: Multiboot kernel must be loaded before modules." when trying to boot belenix and i understand it's to do with the switch to directboot, but not much more. has anyone got any ideas?
[23:04:04] * nrubsig chuckels madly...
[23:04:32] <nachox> nrubsig, ew, i so wanted to see the rock processor! cant they cut them some slack till then?
[23:04:42] <samtb> grub says "   kernel /platform/i86pc/kernel/unix
[23:04:43] <samtb>     module /platform/i86pc/boot_archive"
[23:05:32] <nrubsig> nachox: I would prefer to see a beefed-up 16core niagara which 16 threads per core.
[23:06:13] * oninoshiko misread that -.-
[23:06:41] <nachox> nrubsig, niagra2 will be closer to what you want
[23:07:18] <nrubsig> nachox: yeah, but it's still not enougth.
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[23:07:44] <palowoda> And you want it for 99.00 USD.
[23:07:50] <nrubsig> palowoda: no.
[23:08:01] <palowoda> ok 99,000 USD
[23:08:02] <nrubsig> palowoda: but a two-core Niagara2 cutdown would be nice.
[23:08:19] <nachox> nrubsig, then grab the niagra sources and build one yourself ;)
[23:08:29] <palowoda> volumne needs to up for prices to come down.
[23:08:35] <nrubsig> palowoda: e.g. 2-core Niagara-mini for $400 would be nice.
[23:08:48] <sommerfeld> convince one of the game console makers to switch to N2
[23:08:49] <nrubsig> palowoda: right... ;-(
[23:09:11] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: this is unlikely to happen.
[23:09:32] <Jondice> how does one specify break points in dbx with a program that requires command line arguments? command file?
[23:09:44] <nachox> hmm, those things use fp ops heavily
[23:09:55] <oninoshiko> nrubsig: convince a bunch of investors you could make a killing make a game console based on the N2
[23:10:01] <nachox> Jondice, stop in function
[23:10:19] <nachox> or stop at line
[23:10:21] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: in theory Sun could make a great deal of money by adding hardware for quad-precision FP math to Niagara but Sun put the request from CERN down... and now they sponsoring a similar effort based on a custom CELL2 core
[23:10:27] <kito> anyone able to hit http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs/boot/netinstall/ right now?
[23:10:28] <cmn_err> http://tinyurl.com/2c2v83
[23:10:43] <Jondice> nachox, ok thanks
[23:11:07] <kito> hrm
[23:11:11] <nachox> kito i cannot even hit osol.org now
[23:11:19] <kito> yeah I just noticed that too
[23:11:23] <nachox> nrubsig, what? :)
[23:12:06] <oninoshiko> sun and osol.org hate us
[23:12:28] <nachox> i cant get to sun.com either
[23:12:43] <oninoshiko> i think i broke it
[23:12:44] <Abe_Froman> yeah
[23:13:07] <samtb> it's all been down for a good few minutes
[23:13:13] <nrubsig> oninoshiko: you... you... open-source terrorist.
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[23:13:37] <_mary_kate_> there's some kind of power outage at internap in SF, probably down because of that
[23:13:48] <oninoshiko> nonono... im not a terrorist... im a freedom fighter
[23:13:58] <nachox> dont they have ups'? :)
[23:14:14] <oninoshiko> and generators
[23:14:18] <nrubsig> oninoshiko: ok... you ... you... Linux lover and insurgery!
[23:14:23] <nrubsig> er
[23:14:29] <nrubsig> insurgerent
[23:14:32] <nrubsig> insurgery
[23:14:37] <nrubsig> insuggerent
[23:14:38] <nrubsig> erm
[23:14:42] <nrubsig> how is it called ?
[23:14:49] <oninoshiko> insurgent
[23:14:55] <oninoshiko> (god i love spell-check)
[23:15:02] <nrubsig> oninoshiko: thanks!
[23:15:19] * nachox beats nrubsig with a dictionary
[23:15:24] <nachox> several times
[23:15:27] <nrubsig> oninoshiko: ok... again: You.... you... Linux freewar insurgent!!
[23:16:14] <oninoshiko> you know many a person has told me to invest in a dictionary, but i just point to one and say, its right there, but i cant find the word im looking for because i CANT SPELL IT
[23:16:39] <nrubsig> heh
[23:16:40] <nrubsig> :-)
[23:17:26] <nachox> oninoshiko, there is always google
[23:17:49] <oninoshiko> most of that was pre-google
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[23:18:27] <oninoshiko> you know when we used veronica to search... (and #%)@(* we liked it)
[23:18:30] <nachox> there is nothing pre-google! that is a blasphemy
[23:18:35] <nachox> hehe
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[23:19:40] <bda> Anyone associating log messages with zfs snapshots? Thinking sort of like source mgmt commit msgs.
[23:19:42] <nrubsig> stevel: is it true that Sun went backrupt and couldn't pay it's internet bill anymore ?
[23:19:43] <nachox> stevel, fix sun.com! err... i mean... hi :)
[23:19:58] <stevel> what's wrong with sun.com?
[23:20:03] <oninoshiko> its not there
[23:20:07] <nachox> everything
[23:20:11] <kito> it go bye bye
[23:20:30] <nachox> so did opensolaris.org
[23:20:40] <nrubsig> bugs.opensolaris.org down
[23:20:45] <Stric> maybe someone did that latest bind spoofing thingie
[23:20:46] <nrubsig> src.opensolaris.org down
[23:20:55] <nrubsig> madchiclenpornos.opensolaris.org down
[23:20:58] <nrubsig> er
[23:21:04] <nrubsig> madchickenpornos that means
[23:21:10] <oninoshiko> o.0?
[23:21:11] <nachox> nrubsig, no!! not that one!!!
[23:21:12] <kito> I prefer chiclen porn
[23:21:26] <nrubsig> WTF is a "chiclen" ?
[23:21:42] <oninoshiko> i dont know, you wrote it
[23:21:47] <kito> you'd have to twatch the porn to find out
[23:21:54] <kito> s/twatch/watch/
[23:22:09] <nachox> i think we scared stevel, good job guys
[23:22:15] <kito> haha
[23:22:24] <oninoshiko> could be worse
[23:22:26] <kito> maybes hes taking actino and fixing everything
[23:22:32] <richlowe> stevel: PNAP went boom.
[23:22:41] <richlowe> at least, nothing is getting past them.
[23:22:44] <oninoshiko> GO STEVEL!!!
[23:22:48] <richlowe> stevel: doesn't appear to be your fault.
[23:22:50] <richlowe> stevel: sadly.
[23:22:56] <oninoshiko> aww :(
[23:22:57] <_mary_kate_> < _mary_kate_> there's some kind of power outage at internap in SF, probably down because of that
[23:23:18] <nrubsig> _mary_kate_: we all know stevel is behind this.
[23:23:36] <nachox> that's why he bought all that C4?
[23:23:41] <dunc> :)
[23:23:53] * oninoshiko kicks PNAP square in the jimmy.... %)#@(* get UPSes and generators, like EVERYONE else
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[23:24:34] <_mary_kate_> you can have power failures even if you have upss and generators :)
[23:24:38] <_mary_kate_> user error defeats all technology
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[23:25:05] <dunc> ups going bang usually helps things on the way too
[23:25:40] <oninoshiko> they make these things we call "redundent powersupplies" now...
[23:25:41] <nachox> richlowe, this is all your fault btw, you said redundancy wasnt enough for you
[23:25:53] <richlowe> nachox: haha
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[23:26:47] * quasi recalls having the truck bringing in the new diesel generator run over the power connection box cutting us off ... and of course the old generator was turned off for replacing
[23:27:24] <dunc> whoops
[23:27:39] <bda> Nice.
[23:27:40] <oninoshiko> wow... thats amazing
[23:27:49] <nachox> quasi, that explains why apache is losing ground to iis :P
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[23:28:09] <tomww> you can see how quickly the new generator can be installed...
[23:28:42] <quasi> nachox: except that was at work and 8 or 9 years ago
[23:28:52] <palowoda> Where is the blackbox when you need one.
[23:29:02] <nachox> quasi, what can i say? the industry is slow
[23:29:05] *** comay has quit IRC
[23:29:15] <oninoshiko> anyone useing IIS is slow -.-
[23:29:30] *** stevel has quit IRC
[23:29:36] <oninoshiko> not that im a big fan of apache either
[23:30:00] <kito> lighttpd
[23:30:01] <kito> yay
[23:30:31] <tomww> yes lighttpd with probalby light security :-)
[23:30:41] * oninoshiko dances with kito
[23:32:04] <nachox> how much time till the news hits /. and they start telling how this wouldnt have happened if sun used linux and had opensourced zfs under gpl
[23:32:23] <oninoshiko> it hasnt?
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[23:32:31] <kito> haha
[23:32:43] <kito> and freetards over the world rejoiced
[23:34:11] <kito> is it possible to mount the nv dvd iso rw?
[23:34:19] <kito> lofiadm is ignoring my option
[23:36:15] <coffman> who fucked with the server?
[23:36:46] <jcsmith> kito, afaik, it is not possible to mount any iso rw
[23:36:52] <sommerfeld> 15 minutes ago: < _mary_kate_> there's some kind of power outage at internap in SF, probably down because of that
[23:37:07] <coffman> tsts
[23:37:18] <estibi> heh, sun.com is down ...
[23:37:39] <sommerfeld> oninoshiko: the boston internap PNAP has ups'es and generators out the wazoo.  i'd assume the SF one has them
[23:37:51] <sommerfeld> but UPS's aren't actually uninterruptable
[23:38:00] <coffman> omfg
[23:38:07] <coffman> how, why?
[23:38:17] <nachox> they run out of power?
[23:38:20] <nachox> no fuel?
[23:38:54] <palowoda> No more gerbils.
[23:39:02] *** ircminer03 has quit IRC
[23:39:38] <e^ipi> they've got a whole building of engineers
[23:39:54] *** stevel has joined #opensolaris
[23:39:55] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stevel
[23:39:56] <e^ipi> make them run, kill two birds with one stone ( slim up the engineers a little, and generate power )
[23:39:57] <palowoda> Yeah put them on the wheel.
[23:40:07] <stevel> ugh. oscon internet is down
[23:40:30] <kito> half the intarweb is down
[23:40:30] <stevel> nrubsig: network issues @ the datacentre which houses os.o
[23:40:31] <e^ipi> I wonder how many people are going to pop in to complain about that very thing
[23:40:40] <oninoshiko> lots
[23:40:47] <palowoda> Like I said here is the problem: http://chime.tv/#aloha/2vkb5
[23:40:48] <oninoshiko> nothing better to do, really
[23:40:50] <stevel> so yeah you might be seeing outages with the os.o servers
[23:40:55] <quasi> stevel: *.sun.com pretty much dead
[23:40:59] <richlowe> 'might be'
[23:41:07] <_mary_kate_> who cares about sun.com, livejournal is down!
[23:41:08] *** sommerfeld changes topic to "Latest SXCE 68 | Latest ON 69 | Starter kits: http://get.opensolaris.org | opensolaris.org servers may be unreachable due to outage at InterNAP"
[23:41:21] <nachox> _mary_kate_, hehe
[23:41:56] <nachox> i wonder if the sun grid is out of reach too
[23:42:14] <stevel> quasi:yeah. most of sun's internet facing systems are housed there
[23:43:11] *** sommerfeld changes topic to "Latest SXCE 68 | Latest ON 69 | Starter kits: http://get.opensolaris.org | opensolaris.org servers may be unreachable due to outage at InterNAP San Francisco Data Center"
[23:43:17] *** comay has joined #opensolaris
[23:43:24] <Stric> palowoda: good one ;)
[23:44:35] <nachox> people can still irc from inside sun?
[23:44:55] <sommerfeld> nachox: sun's external-facing webservers are colocated
[23:44:56] * stevel shrugs
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[23:48:26] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stevel
[23:48:36] <sommerfeld> outage is rumored to be related to: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/07/24/BAG9NR67253.DTL&tsp=1
[23:48:37] <cmn_err> http://tinyurl.com/38jaa8
[23:49:40] <sommerfeld> http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/07/365_main_datace.html
[23:49:41] <cmn_err> http://tinyurl.com/yw78rf
[23:50:26] <palowoda> Not even the CIA can get through.
[23:50:35] <bda> sommerfeld: Blammo.
[23:51:07] <palowoda> It's making a mess of the net too.  http://event-portal.internap.com/
[23:51:45] <sommerfeld> i'm skeptical about this report: http://valleywag.com/tech/breakdowns/a-drunk-employee-kills-all-of-the-websites-you-care-about-282021.php
[23:51:46] <cmn_err> http://tinyurl.com/25ly7m
[23:52:00] <_mary_kate_> sommerfeld: that one seems unlikely to me ;-)
[23:52:05] <palowoda> Is there a better mashup of the traffic?
[23:52:19] <nachox> looks like a nice moment to replace servers :)
[23:52:54] <bda> The less Web 2.0 on the Internet, the better.
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[23:53:04] <Doc> hmm..  did that just happen a few hours ago?
[23:53:13] <stevel> sommerfeld: that is where Sun's servers are at though
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[23:54:14] <coraline> Abe Vigoda's Ghost!
[23:54:49] <Doc> yah.. that's out datacenter.  power has been back up for a while
[23:55:13] <quasi> http://laughingsquid.com/massive-power-outages-hit-san-franciscos-soma-district/
[23:55:14] <cmn_err> http://tinyurl.com/yqb965
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[23:57:17] <coraline> soma?
[23:57:34] <stevel> south of market
[23:57:41] <coraline> I was thinking of the drug.
[23:59:50] <nachox> i wonder if this will break the 99.999% of expected availability for web services that is required today :)
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