[00:00:38] <CIA-26> gd209917: 6466157 setbackdq, setfrontdq bound variable is not initialized when ncpus==1
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[00:26:39] <boyd> Morning, all
[00:29:02] <jmcp> hi boyd
[00:29:21] <boyd> hey, jmcp How's brissy treating you?
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[00:29:38] <jmcp> quite well, although it's been really cold
[00:29:55] <boyd> Cold... right.
[00:30:09] <jmcp> getting down to 6C overnight - that's cold
[00:30:24] <boyd> I *suppose* :)
[00:30:47] <boyd> It was 9C and 40 knot winds as I stood on the platform this morning :(
[00:30:55] <jmcp> ouch
[00:30:59] * jmcp shivers
[00:31:10] <boyd> :)
[00:31:29] <boyd> so, have I missed anything in here? I've been gone for a bit over a week
[00:31:39] <Auralis> 9C, want my 36C?
[00:31:47] <jmcp> yes please!
[00:31:56] <boyd> Yep
[00:31:59] <sommerfeld> i'll take the average
[00:32:21] <Auralis> 36C at 10pm btw
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[00:33:09] <alanc> omg - "It looks like we are done with the final ksh93 code review." - does this mean a putback may actually happen soon?
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[00:33:57] * jmcp crosses fingers
[00:36:05] <boyd> It's after that that the real changes begin....
[00:37:45] <stevel> heya glynn, jmcp
[00:37:55] <stevel> alanc: i heard they were targeting onnv_71
[00:38:20] <boyd> Gah... I think I agree with James Carlson.. that system attribute stuff is getting pushed through piecemeal with no overall apparent picture
[00:38:42] <Gman> hey stevel
[00:38:47] * Gman just listening to ogb call
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[00:40:25] <boyd> ... and the picture I'm getting in my head is ugly
[00:41:14] <alanc> Gman: you'ld probably be most interested in the chat while waiting for people to show up, before the recording started, when we discussed Ian's town hall talk that morning
[00:41:23] <Gman> heh
[00:41:42] * Gman is sensitive to swearing
[00:42:20] <alanc> *sigh* the Sun bloggers internal alias is getting boring now - they think that one more person telling us how hard Solaris is to install will make something happen, and ignore all the people telling them it already is
[00:42:40] <boyd> :)
[00:42:44] <alanc> they'll probably claim the new installer in nv_70 was caused by all their griping, not the year of work to get here
[00:42:58] <Gman> heh
[00:43:03] <boyd> Isn't that kind of comment meant for, you know, blogs?
[00:43:14] <Gman> the new installer is so much full of awesome compared to the old one
[00:43:27] <boyd> I didn't realise it's going into 70
[00:43:27] <Gman> but i think generally it'll take a little while to fine tune
[00:43:36] <jmcp> hi stevel
[00:43:45] <wesolows> Solaris is *not* in fact hard to install.
[00:43:57] <alanc> I thought I saw Dave Miner say the putback happened last week
[00:44:02] <wesolows> I'm sure the new stuff will actually make it much more difficult.
[00:44:18] <alanc> the Dwarf Caiman putback that is
[00:44:34] <wesolows> If they wanted to add value, they'd figure out a way to relax the ridiculous memory footprint of boot archive + installer.
[00:44:54] <Gman> wesolows, the old stuff was painful
[00:45:12] <wesolows> There are only two problems I have with the old stuff.
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[00:45:27] <boyd> wesolows: Many years of user interface research have shown one thing above all else: different things are hard than what you expect
[00:45:28] <wesolows> First, the "system on a subnet?" question.  It's stupid; the answer is always yes, and it just confuses people.
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[00:45:55] * movement boggles
[00:45:57] <wesolows> Second, the name service selection screen.  What if I want users from NIS and hosts from DNS (like most shops)?  Yecch.
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[00:46:09] <wesolows> The rest, well, I don't really see how anyone can find it hard.
[00:46:27] <wesolows> But I guess there are also people who can't walk to the grocery store without getting hit by buses, too.
[00:46:36] <Gman> hard is different
[00:46:43] <Gman> fucking annoying might be a better description
[00:46:44] <elektronkind___> the other thing is bringing up the default route BEFORE tryin to contact the configured name servers
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[00:47:07] <boyd> wesolows: +1 on all points, except that people still seem to find it hard... I think the partitioning thing assumes more prior-knowledge than might be ideal
[00:47:19] <boyd> elektronkind: ?
[00:47:33] <wesolows> boyd: Well, that and the automatic partitioning it does is invariably nowhere near sensible.
[00:47:42] <boyd> quite
[00:48:04] <wesolows> boyd: But I guess my point is that these things are just bugs that could certainly be fixed without rewriting the world.
[00:48:05] <boyd> Actually in an all-zfs world much of that should go away
[00:48:15] <boyd> wesolows: Quite.
[00:48:22] <alanc> wesolows: I believe Dwarf Caiman solves the ridiculous memory footprint issue by getting rid of the three separate Java installers and replacing them with one C installer
[00:48:23] <wesolows> Which makes me suspect very strongly that the rewrite's actual purpose is to introduce lots of flashy eye candy type stuff.
[00:48:32] <boyd> I'd prefer to see time and money spent on packaging
[00:48:35] <wesolows> alanc: Well, that's a good thing, surely.
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[00:48:39] <Gman> alanc, yeah, that's an important point
[00:48:40] <elektronkind> boyd: my experience has been that in the solaris installer, it'll ask you for the IP, default route and such for a static interface, as well as any DNS server IP addresses.... but it'll test those DNS IPs before adding the default route... so the test fails and you get an error screen if the DNS servers are on another subnet.
[00:48:51] <wesolows> boyd: Ding!  You're the winner!
[00:49:07] <Gman> solaris installer is the *first* impression people get
[00:49:13] <boyd> elektronkind: Yikes! You could be right... I never noticed
[00:49:14] <Gman> i think that warrants priority
[00:49:33] <elektronkind> I want a Solaris installer with a happy ending, damnit
[00:49:44] <Gman> hawhaw
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[00:49:53] <elektronkind> no errors or ancient dogma
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[00:49:59] <alanc> Gman has pictures on his blog somewhere
[00:50:10] <Gman> of solaris with a happy ending?
[00:50:11] <Gman> surely not.
[00:50:16] <alanc> of the new installers
[00:50:17] <Gman> no pr0n on my site
[00:50:24] <Gman> http://www.gnome.org/~gman/gui-install
[00:50:47] <alanc> users responsible for providing their own happy endings
[00:51:03] <boyd> packaging improvements could make the install experience better. In particular, install time, software selection and disk image download size would be helped
[00:51:23] <alanc> scrolling list of radio buttons looks weird though
[00:51:38] * elektronkind pokes Gman... "you spelled "initializing" wrong on that last slide"
[00:51:39] <elektronkind> ;)
[00:51:47] <nachox> Gman, impressivw screenshots, i bet that is still not working :P
[00:51:50] <wesolows> I would rather an install regime that asks you no questions whatsoever.
[00:52:00] <UberDuper> Geeze I've forgotten more about solaris then I thought.
[00:52:22] <boyd> What the hell is with "Type '=' into any parition size to adjust the available disk space"!?
[00:52:23] <wesolows> After installation completes, a small number of questions could be asked, after which you can use the regular administration tools (which may themselves need improvement).
[00:52:28] <jmcp> elektronkind: note that the message catalogs have been run through the i18n wringer
[00:52:30] <Gman> alanc, there's stuff that i think is wrong on that, but hey, it's a start
[00:52:33] <wesolows> boyd: oh, that's the disk resizer.
[00:52:38] <wesolows> boyd: Cool, huh?!
[00:53:01] <boyd> It's .... insane
[00:53:17] <elektronkind> jmcp: oh I know. I'm just joshing. I like the look though.
[00:53:31] <boyd> Even having read it I don't know what it means
[00:53:38] <movement> boyd: same here. baffling.
[00:54:07] <boyd> Does it mean "recalculate the free space"? If so have a button that says just that. Or even better, recalc on each keypress
[00:54:48] <CSFrost> How would you deal with a telemarketing association that won't stop calling?
[00:55:03] <sommerfeld> CSFrost: nuclear weapons
[00:55:15] <boyd> Hah! That's exactly what I was just typing !
[00:55:29] <CSFrost> They've been calling with a blocked number, so I managed to release their phone number, I grabbed their company info, email addresses, home addresses, and cellphone numbers..
[00:55:42] <boyd> One of the popup menus on the timezone selection screen seems redundant
[00:55:45] <CSFrost> I am thinking about signing them all up for advertisements and such..
[00:56:00] <CSFrost> or putting automated dialers up to call them on their home and cellphones...
[00:56:12] <jmcp> CSFrost: fax their cells
[00:56:13] <CSFrost> but was wondering if anyone had any funny solutions
[00:56:17] <UberDuper> Which packages do I need to install for sshd?
[00:56:22] <boyd> Maybe you can get their numbers on their own call list somehow?
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[00:56:30] <jmcp> UberDuper: ssh has been installed by default since solaris 9
[00:56:43] <nachox> where do you get to pick what cluster and software packages to install? i did not see any button to change that in the screenshots
[00:56:46] <UberDuper> jmcp: Not the machine I just installed. =D
[00:56:47] <boyd> Should the C/POSIX locale really be optional?
[00:56:54] <CSFrost> boyd, they have a website, it seems like they set up automated telemarketing numbers or something..
[00:57:05] <jmcp> UberDuper: then you screwed up the install
[00:57:11] <UberDuper> Agreed.
[00:57:23] <CSFrost> www.apmllc.com
[00:57:24] <UberDuper> I installed the SUNWsshd packages.
[00:57:27] <jmcp> it'll be in SUNWsshr and SUNWsshu
[00:57:30] <CSFrost> some automated telemarketer..
[00:57:47] <boyd> I think there is a dependancy on one of the crypto pkgs too
[00:58:05] <boyd> Where do I specify my IP address and other settings in those screenshots?
[00:58:31] <UberDuper> I think I'm missing the crypto packages.
[00:58:56] <boyd> Some actual questions (not rhetorical ones): As of b70, will Jumpstart and text mode instal still work the current way?
[00:59:05] <CSFrost> I could sign them up for free ebay boxes from USPS, and order them truckloads....
[00:59:36] <sommerfeld> CSFrost: so, fighting abuse with abuse strikes me as the wrong answer.
[00:59:37] <boyd> CSFrost: do you not have some kind of do-not-call registry?
[00:59:47] <sommerfeld> CSFrost: what jurisdiction are you in?
[00:59:50] <CSFrost> boyd, I am on that registry
[00:59:57] <CSFrost> new york state
[01:00:10] <boyd> So there must be some kind of process if they don't honor it
[01:00:19] <sommerfeld> my home phone service is with a voip provider which allows me to block all incoming blocked calls
[01:00:24] <sommerfeld> phone doesn't ring
[01:00:28] <CSFrost> I can block them
[01:00:31] <sommerfeld> call doesn't even exist
[01:00:34] <CSFrost> that's not a problem
[01:00:46] <CSFrost> but I'd rather them not call me, and not have my number.
[01:00:54] <UberDuper> Bah. I'll just reinstall.
[01:01:08] <sommerfeld> well, unless you're going to change numbers, "not have my number" isn't an option.  they have it.
[01:01:17] <CSFrost> yep
[01:01:26] <CSFrost> but I'd rather they not sell it out to clients etc
[01:01:40] <CSFrost> I am sure they have an automated calling list etc..
[01:01:49] <sommerfeld> the do-not-call list has a form you can use to report violators
[01:02:04] <CSFrost> I reported them several months ago :-)
[01:02:05] <boyd> So, follow the process to get them to remove the number from their list..
[01:02:19] <sommerfeld> https://www.donotcall.gov/Complain/ComplainCheck.aspx
[01:02:29] <sommerfeld> report them again for each call attempt
[01:02:42] <CSFrost> sommerfeld, it's like 40-60 calls a week :-)
[01:02:45] <sommerfeld> !
[01:02:54] <sommerfeld> that's verging into harrassment
[01:03:00] <CSFrost> 11 times the number is on my incoming call list today
[01:03:00] <sommerfeld> err, not verging
[01:03:02] <sommerfeld> that is harrassment
[01:03:04] <CSFrost> yep
[01:03:06] <boyd> You could *try* calling the police...
[01:03:19] <CSFrost> maybe call chicago's?
[01:03:41] <CSFrost> I think a personal visit might be a bit much for an annoyance..
[01:04:18] <sommerfeld> you're in NY, they're in chicago?
[01:04:25] <CSFrost> I was thinking about doing something funny that people might laugh about if they told them about it.. that's why I thought the usps boxes would be funny
[01:04:27] <CSFrost> yep
[01:04:44] <boyd> Cross-state... that's FBI isn't it?
[01:05:02] <CSFrost> my number is listed on new york state bar lists still I think.. which could be where they grabbed it from
[01:05:33] <CSFrost> fbi for harrassment? I could just block them, but it is the point that counts
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[01:06:12] <sommerfeld> you can contact your local police, your phone company, or police local to the offender
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[01:06:29] <CSFrost> I'll just call the chicago pd I guess
[01:07:09] <CSFrost> I wouldn't mind if they had a unblocked number and were telemarketing.. I'd learn the number after a while..
[01:07:40] <CSFrost> but any international number comes up as anonymous, so it's hard not to answer the calls
[01:08:00] <CSFrost> alright.. I'll wait on the usps box joke..
[01:08:31] <sommerfeld> deluging him in "free" usps boxes just raises our postal rates
[01:09:01] <CSFrost> I think our postal rates raise just because they feel like it :-P
[01:09:13] <boyd> Yeah, and with the AUD at it's current level I want to buy lots of books from the US. So don't push the rates up
[01:09:26] <sommerfeld> in my experience, caller id distinguishes between "blocked" and "unknown", and the service I have only blocks "blocked"
[01:10:11] <CSFrost> I can block his specific number, it's voip here also
[01:10:21] <sommerfeld> boyd: please do!
[01:10:50] <boyd> I'm not sure that my little purchases will help your dollar much :)
[01:10:51] <stevel> csfrost: sign them up for multiple scientologist interest lists
[01:11:03] <sommerfeld> every little bit helps
[01:11:08] <CSFrost> email lists? I could do that
[01:11:17] <stevel> i think whoever owned our previous house was a scientologist... and their whole family got 4 of every mailing
[01:11:22] <stevel> no, real mailing list - sorry, not email list
[01:11:26] <sommerfeld> stevel: ick
[01:11:33] <boyd> sommerfeld: Compared to us shipping about a zillion tonnes of coal to China.....
[01:11:42] <stevel> i've been keeping track, my last scientology-free mail day was last november
[01:11:49] <stevel> they send out an endless stream of mailings
[01:11:52] <CSFrost> I am using foreign currency for all my purchases here still..  so the low US dollar is great for me..
[01:11:53] <boyd> Ok, I've gotta go and do some... you know, work
[01:12:23] <stevel> we get about 4 a day
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[01:12:59] <sommerfeld> stevel: any good as T.P. ?
[01:12:59] <CSFrost> that shouldn't raise the rates for usps though.. it should help them more then anything..
[01:13:27] <stevel> sommerfeld: nope not really.  i use them mostly for bbq fire starter, or random mailing padding
[01:13:29] <stevel> the rest i recycle
[01:13:48] <RobG> I'm using 'cputrack' to understand the perfroamnce aspects of an application I'm playing with. Howver I'm trying to identify the correct name for the cpu event 'retired instructions'
[01:13:52] <CSFrost> I know my banks send my statements to Tokyo, and they pay over $1 usd in postage for each bank.
[01:14:05] <RobG> Anyone know the correct name on AMD64?
[01:14:33] <CSFrost> so maybe more foreigners should just get bank accounts in the US, even if they have no money :-P
[01:16:07] <richlowe> RobG: AMD64?
[01:16:17] <richlowe> ;)
[01:16:26] <RobG> x64
[01:16:27] <RobG> whatever
[01:16:35] <RobG> u know what I mean!!!
[01:16:41] <richlowe> Ah, I missed the first half the question, so my sarcasm missed :\
[01:16:42] <stevel> amd64 is correct
[01:16:45] <richlowe> Hm, or maybe it didn't miss.
[01:16:48] <stevel> the intel 64-bit ones have different names
[01:16:51] <stevel> for the events
[01:17:07] <CSFrost> stevel, got a good website for scientology lists?
[01:17:27] <stevel> csfrost: hrm, nope - but when i get home tonight i'll take a look at the mailing-of-the-day and see how you signup for 'em
[01:17:49] <RobG> I'm trying to get the trapstat -t info which appears to only work on sparc
[01:18:04] <CSFrost> that would be great, I'd like to start them on their scientology education right away.
[01:18:47] <RobG> Scientology??? Am I in the right channel?
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[01:19:35] <CSFrost> yep
[01:19:37] <richlowe> I was just wondering similar
[01:19:51] <sommerfeld> RobG: off-topic rambling about dealing with telemarketers
[01:20:00] <sommerfeld> RobG: by getting them to attack each other
[01:20:48] <RobG> Does scientology have any answers on x64 cpu event labels?
[01:20:55] <sommerfeld> RobG: I hope not.
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[01:21:15] <sommerfeld> cpustat -h says " See Chapter 10 of the "BIOS and Kernel Developer's Guide for the
[01:21:15] <sommerfeld>         AMD Athlon 64 and AMD Opteron Processors," AMD publication #26094"
[01:21:32] <sommerfeld> (after spewing a list of event labels)
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[01:24:18] <sommerfeld> RobG: haven't tracked down that doc myself but that at least looks vaguely promising
[01:24:36] <RobG> I'm looking at http://developer.amd.com/article_print.jsp?id=90 secition 6.5.1
[01:27:32] <RobG> This clearly states that retired instructions are there, but it's not clear from cputrack -h that you can even get it
[01:28:16] <stevel> robg: best i see are FR_retired_x86_instr_w_excp_intr or FR_retired_fpu_instr
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[01:28:22] <stevel> the latter seems to indicate only floating point ones
[01:28:41] <RobG> yeah, which is not what I'm after
[01:28:49] <stevel> i'm not sure about the former
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[01:29:36] <RobG> Unless you guys know a different way to see if the TLB is swamped on x64?
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[01:30:07] <stevel> robg: you could try asking perf-discuss
[01:31:24] <RobG> steve1: Is that inside Sun?
[01:32:29] <stevel> robg: nope
[01:32:30] <stevel> 1 sec
[01:32:38] <stevel> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/perf-discuss
[01:33:11] <RobG> ahh cool, thx... I'll join up
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[01:35:28] <sommerfeld> usr/src/uts/intel/pcbe/opteron_pcbe.c
[01:35:35] <sommerfeld> looks like the rosetta stone
[01:35:52] <sommerfeld> 0xC0         Ret_instructions Retired Instructions
[01:36:00] <sommerfeld> in http://developer.amd.com/article_print.jsp?id=90
[01:36:26] <sommerfeld> is    { "FR_retired_x86_instr_w_excp_intr",           0xC0, 0x0 }, in opteron_pcbe.c
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[01:37:28] <RobG> I get cputrack: bad token Ret_instructions
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[01:38:02] <sommerfeld> Try FR_retired_x86_instr_w_excp_intr
[01:38:10] <sommerfeld> that's what we seem to be calling 0xC0
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[01:41:17] <chewbacca> how can you boot into single user mode via grub? i cant seem to get anything and my login in the normal boot sequence is hosed. (i googled first!)
[01:41:37] <RobG> sommerfeld: thanks, if the data is correct then I'm not seeing the dTLB problem
[01:41:42] <sommerfeld> use the "e" command of grub to edit the command line to add a "-s"
[01:41:49] <chewbacca> ah, thanks
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[01:41:54] <sommerfeld> (add it to the "kernel" line)
[01:42:12] <sommerfeld> (if you find yourself doing this a lot, you can create a new grub menu entry with the "-s" already there)
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[01:46:27] <chewbacca> managed to launch single user mode, however its experiencing the same hang im getting under normal boot: svc.startd keeps cycling killing the graphical-login/gdm service
[01:46:42] <chewbacca> can you boot into a straight console?
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[01:47:45] <richlowe> SMF should give up trying to start gdm fairly quickly
[01:47:54] <richlowe> though I forget the default number of attempts.
[01:48:14] <chewbacca> i get impatient after 5 minutes ;)
[01:48:32] <nachox> solaris can only grow umounted ufs filesystems right?
[01:49:10] <nachox> chewbacca, disable it :) and check the logs
[01:49:54] <chewbacca> nachox: heh, i'd love to disable it however im stuck being unable to login! i just tried booting -s in grub
[01:50:16] <sommerfeld> do you see "Booting to milestone "milestone/single-user:default". " ?
[01:50:31] <nachox> chewbacca, try booting to another milestone
[01:50:35] <sommerfeld> and Root password for system maintenance (control-d to bypass):
[01:50:36] <sommerfeld> ?
[01:50:37] <chewbacca> k
[01:50:52] <sommerfeld> if so, log in there, disable gdm with svcadm
[01:52:03] <RobG> sommerfeld: Have you been a good mentor??? Completed you eval???
[01:52:47] <sommerfeld> RobG: i was given bad information about the deadline for "normal" eval completion
[01:53:39] <sommerfeld> RobG: I sent a copy of the form to Gman
[01:53:59] <RobG> sommerfeld: Good boy ;-)
[01:54:35] <sommerfeld> (I was told "by July 16th" but not "by July 16th, 19:00 UTC", and missed by an hour..)
[01:56:13] <RobG> sommerfeld: I've always known you Americans were a little behind the rest of the world ;-)
[01:56:56] <sommerfeld> But only a little :-)
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[01:57:40] <RobG> sommerfeld: 19 hours behind me ... but who's counting
[01:57:43] <sommerfeld> it's purely arbitrary.  had the international date line run through the atlantic instead of the pacific, we'd be ahead of everyone.
[01:58:36] <RobG> I just like the fact that I'm in one of the first countries that heads of for a beer on a Friday afternoon
[01:59:46] <alanc> and thus one of the first that has to be in the office monday morning
[02:00:17] <RobG> alanc: Ouch... that's a low blow
[02:00:20] <purserj> just means we get it over and done with earlier
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[02:03:33] <CSFrost> 22 mile (35km) bridge costing 1.5 billion.. http://www.cegltd.com/story.asp?story=8938
[02:03:46] <CSFrost> if that was in the US, it would cost trillions.
[02:04:02] <CSFrost> 1.5 billion wouldn't cover the planning costs..
[02:05:03] <CSFrost> amazing though.
[02:05:48] <wesolows> yeah 1.5b would cover the phase 1 EIR
[02:05:59] <alanc> I think the replacement for the SF-Oakland Bay Bridge's east half is up to 5 billion for 3km
[02:06:11] <CSFrost> the architects cost would be like 20 billion.. heh
[02:06:22] <wesolows> yep, corruption + government incompetence + stupidity
[02:06:33] <sommerfeld> wasn't always that bad
[02:06:33] <CSFrost> lovely things
[02:06:44] <CSFrost> no, but it is now
[02:06:45] <alanc> hmm, guessed too low - wikipedia says it's now expected to hit $6.2 billion
[02:06:50] <sommerfeld> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Pontchartrain_Causeway
[02:07:01] <CSFrost> like the great 10' high fence of mexico
[02:07:28] <CSFrost> alanc, of course when it is done it will be up towards 20 billion you know
[02:07:50] <CSFrost> they always hit those budget bumps for some reason
[02:07:53] <alanc> it's already way up from the original $1.1 billion
[02:09:53] <wesolows> They should just have UP build them a railroad bridge at a 50% profit margin (which would cost the state maybe $500m) and use the rest to run high-speed trains between SF and Oakland.
[02:10:18] <wesolows> You want to drive your car to SF?  No, you don't.  You think you do.  Trust me, you don't.
[02:10:21] <g4lt-U60> UP?  Build?  you must have mistaken them for a solvent company
[02:10:39] <wesolows> g4lt-U60: I'd prefer BNSF but UP owns the Oakland yard.
[02:10:58] <wesolows> And yes, they're solvent.  In any case the state would be paying them for the job, they'd just be a contractor.
[02:10:59] <g4lt-U60> wesolows, and UPRR is probably pulling out of it as well :(
[02:11:32] <sommerfeld> unfortuantely, profitable railroads haul cargo while unprofitable ones haul people.
[02:11:37] <wesolows> Well, fine, they can bring in BNSF and work it out.
[02:12:02] <CSFrost> all the old railways here are being torn up, and paved over for bike paths.. lol
[02:12:21] <wesolows> sommerfeld: That's because the unprofitable ones haul people over roads designed for and maintained as freight roads, and run by and for the people hauling freight.  The network effects aren't there, and the speeds are too low.
[02:12:24] <CSFrost> that's progress.
[02:12:32] <CSFrost> bike paths no one uses..
[02:13:05] <sommerfeld> the ex-rail bike path near my house is so crowded on weekends that it's dangerous to cycle on.
[02:13:08] <CSFrost> sommerfeld, amtrak makes billions apon billions from tax money
[02:13:11] <wesolows> CSFrost: Yeah, that's already happened here, too.  I give it at most 40 years before they're undoing all that and laying laser-aligned continuously-welded rail and catenary as fast as their machines will take them.
[02:13:38] <sommerfeld> the problem in the northeast is that it's politically impossible to acquire right-of-way
[02:13:41] <CSFrost> sommerfeld, not here.. I could use it as a sniping range for distance
[02:14:02] <wesolows> sommerfeld: Same problem here, I'm afraid.  And 500-km subways are expensive to build.
[02:14:15] <wesolows> But the NEC would be plenty profitable on its own, without subsidies.
[02:14:21] <CSFrost> I've been wanting to build a long range stationary rifle too.. perhaps I will do that
[02:14:30] <wesolows> Though the network effects would make it somewhat less so than it is today.
[02:14:47] <CSFrost> tons of people wish we had railways here..
[02:15:08] <CSFrost> but the government leased or bought up all the tracks 20-30 years ago
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[02:16:09] <CSFrost> 500km subways are only expensive to build because of the unions required and the planning costs they toss in the budget.
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[02:16:30] <CSFrost> in plenty of other countries they do it effectively with a low budget.
[02:16:33] <sommerfeld> so, i've ridden the shinkansen in japan, acela express (boston<->NY and boston<->DC) and the eurostar (london<->paris).  I think acela's biggest problem is surly employees who don't care.  the second biggest problem is the lousy right of way in CT
[02:17:18] <CSFrost> if there was a federally run rail system, I am sure it wouldn't be a trouble to deal with rightaways.
[02:17:39] <CSFrost> besides, there isn't a big need for railroad crossings in this day and age.
[02:17:46] <sommerfeld> CSFrost: given the recent furor over eminent domain, surely you jest.
[02:17:58] <CSFrost> of course I jest
[02:18:05] <CSFrost> I know it wouldn't happen :-)
[02:18:55] <CSFrost> much like the many billions tax payer payed for fiber a few years back
[02:21:43] <chewbacca> just added a sata controller and 2 new drives, getting a crazy message: "Sense Key: aborted command   Vendor 'Gen-ATA' error code: 0x3"
[02:22:31] <chewbacca> something to do with the /boot/solaris/bootenv.rc
[02:23:11] <chewbacca> sommerfeld: and the shinkansen is awesome. i live in the US and miss it
[02:23:30] <sommerfeld> chewbacca: is that the complete error message?
[02:24:05] <chewbacca> sommerfeld: i msged you the complete message
[02:26:05] <chewbacca> the message appears when i do devfsadm
[02:28:41] <chewbacca> or any zpool add stuff, spooky
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[02:40:48] <wesolows> sommerfeld: Don't complain about the ROW.  The NEC's minimum speeds are higher than the maximum speeds we ever see in the west (usually 55, though 70 in a few places).
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[02:41:09] <wesolows> Caltrain rebuilt their entire road, and now about half of it is 79mph.
[02:41:17] <wesolows> The rest is mostly 70 or 75.
[02:41:32] <wesolows> That's as fast as any train goes anywhere west of Washington.
[02:42:53] <CSFrost> that's over twice the speed I drive at..
[02:44:51] <wesolows> Yeah, Caltrain is actually viable (and profitable) as an express commuter line.
[02:45:04] <wesolows> It's much faster than driving if you live or work near a station.
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[02:48:24] <CSFrost> oh well, not much is going to happen, until another 40 years or so like you said
[02:48:36] <CSFrost> we have to be atleast 100 years behind everyone else in order for someone to notice.
[02:49:09] <wesolows> Yup.  $200 oil will work wonders for rediscovering our love of rail.  Unfortunately, it takes 10-15 years to upgrade a major mainline to 125mph operation.
[02:49:26] <wesolows> By the time people start waking up to the need, they'll be in for a solid decade of severe pain.
[02:49:43] <CSFrost> probably take 50 years to get to 300mph operation then :-)
[02:49:53] <CSFrost> after the 100 year mark of course..
[02:50:19] <wesolows> 300 is at least technically challenging.
[02:50:22] <CSFrost> Isn't the COMSTAR project name, going to start a flame war against other stuff with the STAR name?
[02:50:40] <CSFrost> sorry for the offtopic question
[02:50:44] <wesolows> All Hail COMSTAR
[02:50:53] * wesolows salutes his COMSTAR Overlord
[02:51:06] <CSFrost> heh
[02:52:46] <alanc> StarOffice?  that's only in Solaris, not opensolaris - can't think of anything in OpenSolaris using the star name, at least not unless Joerg actually decides he wants to do more to put star in than just whine about it
[02:52:57] <CSFrost> what was the flight limits for personal aircraft before needing radio gear and/or pilots license? 60mph ground speed?
[02:54:01] <CSFrost> wasn't there a big war over the filesystem project with star last time or something?
[02:54:41] <alanc> there are many attempts to start big wars over star, but none have succeeded
[02:55:36] <sommerfeld> only one person wants to play
[02:56:01] <CSFrost> but I think that person is very determined!
[02:58:14] <lloy0076> w00t - my copy of "The Inform Designer's Manual" by Graham Nelson has arrived!
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[03:00:33] <CIA-26> jbeck: 6353321 libtecla consumers (such as zonecfg) exit on unknown TERM type, 6574007 pca_path_completions() should be exposed as a public interface
[03:00:34] <CIA-26> kz151634: 6580783 AGP driver bound to incorrect device id of Intel i965GME/GLE
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[03:06:49] <axisys> logadm -p now /var/adm/messages does not rotate the log file.. hiting a bug ?
[03:08:27] <axisys> http://rafb.net/p/tLPyQi82.html here is relevant entry of logadm -V
[03:08:37] <axisys> should it not rotate?
[03:09:53] <Plouj> help me fill this with more info: http://plouj.sh.nu/nas-server.html#OS
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[03:21:18] <EchoBinary> anyone know how/where i can look up hw compatability? particularly an arc-1230 RAID card?
[03:24:01] <coffman> EchoBinary: http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/ is a point to start
[03:24:36] <EchoBinary> cool :) thanks!
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[03:26:51] <coffman> EchoBinary: areca has solaris drivers for this cards
[03:27:00] <coffman> EchoBinary: binary only ofc
[03:27:40] <coffman> EchoBinary: ftp://ftp.areca.com.tw/RaidCards/AP_Drivers/Solaris/DRIVER/Solaris10/
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[03:33:45] <EchoBinary> only ofc?
[03:36:43] <CSFrost> not exactly opensolaris, but might end up giving us more toys to work with, such as sbc's.. http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2158635,00.asp
[03:36:50] <coffman> EchoBinary: hardware vendors... stupid idiot
[03:36:54] <coffman> *s
[03:37:05] <coffman> EchoBinary: not you^^
[03:37:08] <EchoBinary> lol
[03:37:27] <EchoBinary> ofc..   = of course?
[03:37:38] <coffman> yeah sorry
[03:37:50] <EchoBinary> its cool
[03:37:52] <EchoBinary> :-D
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[03:45:21] <CSFrost> "Taking a page from Sun Microsystems' DTrace tool, IBM has added dynamic tracing capabilities to AIX 6.1"
[03:45:32] <CSFrost> atleast it's publicized :-P
[03:45:39] <EchoBinary> hmmm
[03:45:54] <EchoBinary> ok, so there is a binary driver - any way to use it durring installation?
[03:45:57] <EchoBinary> during*
[03:46:33] <EchoBinary> through a twisted turn of fate, ive had to put my system drive on the card and make it a "pass through" drive
[03:48:45] <Tempt> CSFrost: It would be more impressive if IBM implemented dtrace, and then the skillset would be portable to another platform.
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[03:49:57] <CSFrost> heh Tempt, standardization would never happen, you know better.
[03:50:26] <Tempt> Of course I know better.
[03:50:41] <Tempt> I was just making my daily futile comment.
[03:51:57] <CSFrost> :-P
[03:52:25] <CSFrost> next you will be talking about privacy concerns like google..  http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/newstex/IBD-0001-18174878.htm
[03:59:36] <CSFrost> "He did not want to speculate on whether Sun will also pickup Intel's Itanium CPUs, which the company has been pushing."
[03:59:51] <CSFrost> heh
[04:00:06] <Tempt> I can't really see Sun wanting to go down that path.
[04:00:13] <CSFrost> sorry, I am catching up on my news.. I just find that funny though
[04:00:14] <Tempt> They aren't quite compatible with x64.
[04:00:34] <CSFrost> they aren't really compatible with anything are they?
[04:00:58] <richlowe> I was reading it as sarcasm, but no, they aren't.
[04:02:07] <CSFrost> I read it also as sarcasm, but I was gearing mine towards a legitimate question :-)
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[04:03:27] <Tempt> But you can run OpenVMS on Itanic now.
[04:03:52] <nemesis> lol
[04:03:55] <nemesis> who would want to?
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[04:05:51] <wesolows> consider the alternatives
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[04:07:44] <lloy0076> I thought the Unobtaniums had died.
[04:07:46] <coffman> EchoBinary: yes, there are two versions of the driver, one package to install on a previous installed system, and one floppy image that you can use while install
[04:09:19] <coffman> Tempt: the dirty truth about itanium is that solaris was the fist system ever runing on it, sure they never put it out for what reason ever
[04:09:25] <CSFrost> "The idea is to deliver OpenSolaris in a packaged distribution method modeled after the ease of distribution used with Linux." Hearing that never gets old!
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[04:10:27] <RobG_AFK> lloy0076: Itanium does have it merits and it still is the fastest fro
[04:10:38] <lloy0076> The fastest fro?
[04:10:40] <RobG_AFK> http://www.mersenne.org/ verification
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[04:11:30] <RobG> Though I'm doing my best to spank it with the SPARC64 VI
[04:11:41] <CSFrost> I know some athletes who run track who have very fast fros
[04:11:42] <sommerfeld> "fro", as in the hairstyle?
[04:11:59] <RobG> okay... so I can't tpye
[04:12:06] <CSFrost> think most come from kenya..
[04:12:17] <coffman> yeah, the itanium is that fast that it sells for less then an pentium 3 server on ebay :P
[04:12:46] <coffman> even alphas or sgis sell for more
[04:13:03] <CSFrost> "Bryant replaced their Sun Microsystems hardware infrastructure with IBM Power processor-based BladeCenter servers running Linux and IBM virtualization software technology, driving higher utilization rates and helping save energy costs."
[04:13:12] <CSFrost> man, that's a good quote right there
[04:13:35] <chewbacca> Anyone know of the fastest possible way to copy data from one ZFS system to another? I was thinking of trying the backup cmd
[04:13:38] <jbk> *shrug* i know of places that replaced solaris with linux (on thousand of machines) then went back
[04:14:15] <jbk> i'm guessing most of their savings was more from the consolidation than anything about the hw or os
[04:14:27] <CSFrost> long link.. appologies, incase you want to read it, http://www.mysolutioninfo.com/news-display.aspx?Code=1949&t=IBM%20and%20APC%20Partner%20to%20Create%20Energy%20Efficient%20Green%20Data%20Center%20for%20Bryant%20University
[04:14:44] <jbk> lemme guess, water cooled cabinets?
[04:14:48] <coffman> chewbacca: zfs send/recv via netcat?
[04:14:49] <CSFrost> jbk, probably just uninformed management decisions
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[04:15:35] <jbk> likey... i always joke about the in-flight magazine style of management :)
[04:15:41] <jbk> err likely
[04:16:40] <coffman> CSFrost: next time use a service from here for such links http://notlong.com/links/
[04:16:53] <jbk> but i can't wait to see what interesting issues they have as they start to drive up the load from consolidation :)
[04:17:03] <chewbacca> coffman: hmm, ill test some files
[04:17:12] <CSFrost> coffman, I'd rather let people know where they are being directed to if possible.. I know I don't like going to blind links.
[04:17:37] <CSFrost> jbk, I'd actually like to see someone do a blog on it, and see how much (if any) they are really saving, to do a competitive article.
[04:18:15] <jbk> most of the time, the savings i've seen are just from replacing old hardware
[04:18:25] <jbk> i.e. if they put in new boxes with s10, they'd save just as much
[04:18:44] <coffman> chewbacca: over network, right?
[04:19:08] <CSFrost> yep, but I don't think sun's sales staff and consulting effectively work to hold clients.
[04:19:21] <coffman> CSFrost: true
[04:19:32] <jbk> that wouldn't surprise meunfortunately
[04:19:39] <EchoBinary> coffman: ..  what if i have no floppy!
[04:19:44] <EchoBinary> nooooo    LOL
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[04:21:30] <jbk> they need to hire some sales guys from bmc
[04:21:41] <jbk> those guys seem able to sell ice to eskimos
[04:21:57] <CSFrost> and golf clubs to street punks..
[04:22:08] <CSFrost> well.. bad example I guess..
[04:23:45] <sommerfeld> i'm not a golfer but I know a few.  recent high tech clubs seem to be too lightweight to be useful to street punks
[04:24:14] <coffman> EchoBinary: no floppy? and you try to install a raid controller? :P
[04:25:37] <CSFrost> sommerfeld, with a good swing, a piece of rope is painful
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[04:31:13] <EchoBinary> hmmm
[04:31:20] <EchoBinary> i wonder if a usb floppy would work
[04:32:40] <alanc> damn, how many packages does pkg-get take to get to gpg?
[04:33:02] <CSFrost> This is like counting jelly beans in the jar, isn't it?
[04:33:09] <CSFrost> I say, 764?
[04:33:14] <coffman> EchoBinary: should do, you might be able to get it done via cd but i dunno
[04:33:20] <coffman> gn8
[04:33:23] <alanc> I wasn't expecting a complete copy of perl to come down with it
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[05:04:17] <Tempt> Heh.
[05:04:19] <Tempt> pkg-get for gpg
[05:04:23] <Tempt> I bet that installs openldap
[05:04:37] <Atomdrache> Tempt:  Who was it you said might know where some Elite3D drivers are?
[05:04:51] <Tempt> Drivers? Elite3D?
[05:04:54] <Atomdrache> (or did somebody else say that?)
[05:05:09] * boyd valiantly tries to catch up on 1700 indiana emails
[05:05:28] <Tempt> Err, in the average Solaris install?
[05:05:32] <Tempt> You don't need to add them.
[05:05:37] <Tempt> boyd: HA. HA. HA.
[05:05:42] <Atomdrache> They're not there.  I checked quite extensively.
[05:05:55] <Atomdrache> Can find no drivers in SXCE for Elite3D cards.
[05:06:15] <Atomdrache> There's a man page.  But no drivers.  I plug the thing in and Solaris says it can't find the framebuffer driver.
[05:06:16] <boyd>  is this a non-complete install?
[05:06:26] <Atomdrache> Not unless something went wrong without my knowing about it.
[05:06:36] <boyd> (i.e. anything but "entire distribution")
[05:06:46] <Atomdrache> I did the standard installation.
[05:07:07] <Atomdrache> I only told it to omit some utilities I didn't need, such as Kerberos.
[05:07:28] <Atomdrache> The card wasn't plugged in at the time.
[05:07:31] <boyd> This is some new usage of the word "standard" that I wasn't previously aware of.
[05:07:35] <Tempt> Perhaps we should eliminate the option to install anything less than Entire+OEM from an interactive install
[05:07:48] <Tempt> boyd: I love standards. So many to choose from!
[05:07:59] <Atomdrache> It never asked me to, say, omit video drivers.
[05:08:38] <Atomdrache> Does it only install them for video cards that are present, or something like that?
[05:08:47] <boyd> Unless you did "Entire dist + OEM" then it didn't install drivers for HW you don't have AIUI
[05:08:48] <Tempt> devfsadm ; ls /dev/fbs
[05:09:09] <boyd> Tempt: Yes, eliminating that option would be good.
[05:09:11] <Atomdrache> I don't recall "Entire dist + OEM" being an option.
[05:09:29] <Tempt> boyd: I thought the basic framebuffer drivers always installed
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[05:09:36] <Tempt> SUNWcxall
[05:09:37] <boyd> Tempt: Maybe.. dunno
[05:10:06] <Atomdrache> That returns gfxp0--the installed PCI card.
[05:10:11] <boyd> Atomdrache: At one point it asks about "Core, End User, Developer, Entire...." etc
[05:10:40] <Atomdrache> I downloaded CE, burned it to CD-Rs, and installed it.  Saw nothing like that.
[05:10:46] <Atomdrache> Unless I just don't remember.
[05:10:54] <Tempt> Okay
[05:10:58] <Tempt> Check your pkginfo
[05:11:01] <Tempt> SUNWafb
[05:11:12] <Tempt> SUNWafbcf
[05:11:19] * boyd shrugs. To be honest he hasn't done an interactive install for a few builds
[05:11:21] <Tempt> SUNWafbr
[05:11:30] <Tempt> SUNWafbw
[05:11:33] <Tempt> There you go.
[05:11:36] <Atomdrache> Not there, for the first two.
[05:11:39] <Tempt> Stick your DVD in and install them.
[05:11:40] <Atomdrache> Checking second two.
[05:11:53] <Atomdrache> Don't have a DVD.  I tried checking the CD-Rs, and it didn't want to read them.
[05:12:06] <Tempt> And next time, just jumpstart the box and specify SUNWcxall as the install cluster
[05:12:15] <Atomdrache> (second two also absent)
[05:12:17] <Tempt> I'm sure Boyd will agree.
[05:12:27] <boyd> yes...
[05:12:30] <Atomdrache> Not quite sure what you mean there.
[05:12:47] <Tempt> In fact, JumpStart is the one true way.
[05:12:48] <Tempt> Embrace it.
[05:12:56] <Atomdrache> So how do I do that?
[05:14:02] <Tempt> You enroll in Boyd's jumpstart class and he'll teach you more than you ever wanted to know.
[05:14:16] <boyd> One dows have to have a second machine handy
[05:14:18] <boyd> does
[05:14:34] <Atomdrache> Some kind of network boot thing?
[05:14:53] <Atomdrache> I could probably use the e450 for it.
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[05:16:02] <boyd> Yeah, you boot off the net and you can do an interactive install or better script it
[05:16:09] <Atomdrache> However, it would be easier at this point to just obtain the packages and add them than to reinstall my operating system.  Or so it would appear.  But I've looked for those packages and can't seem to find them anywhere.
[05:16:39] <Atomdrache> Is there any way to obtain them without reinstalling SXCE?  Like, does anybody know somebody with an old Ultra?
[05:17:00] <boyd> You can't read the install media?
[05:17:09] <Atomdrache> Maybe I'm doing it wrong?
[05:17:34] <Atomdrache> I attempted the idiot approach and put the thing in the drive and tried to read it with the file manager.  What's another way?
[05:17:40] <Atomdrache> Do I mount it or something and try to cd into it?
[05:17:45] <Tempt> See the thing next to the mouse?
[05:17:51] <boyd> :P
[05:18:00] <Tempt> No, not your coffee mug.
[05:18:03] <Tempt> Other side.
[05:18:04] <boyd> Atomdrache: in the normal case it shoud be auto-mounted
[05:18:10] <boyd> try df
[05:18:26] <Atomdrache> Let's see what that does.
[05:19:05] <boyd> Tempt: This pen?
[05:19:10] <boyd> My phone
[05:19:19] <boyd> A Whiteboard eraser?
[05:19:24] <boyd> Noodle box?
[05:19:27] <boyd> iPod?
[05:19:44] <Atomdrache> Okay, there's something.
[05:19:53] <Atomdrache> Apparently only likes to be accessed via terminal.
[05:20:01] <Atomdrache> (pukes a bunch of empty windows onto the desktop)
[05:20:06] <Atomdrache> (automatically)
[05:21:32] <Atomdrache> Well, I've got the first of six disks in and can't find any /fbs under /dev.
[05:21:36] <Atomdrache> Is it on one of the others?
[05:21:55] <boyd> wait... did you install any packages?
[05:22:28] <Atomdrache> When?
[05:22:42] <Atomdrache> I mean, disc one is in the CD-ROM drive.
[05:22:48] <Atomdrache> I installed all six of them.
[05:23:12] <boyd> Ok, it wasn't clear that you had installed anything :)
[05:23:17] <Atomdrache> I'm manually searching the discs to try to find the the packages for the elite3D card.
[05:23:22] <boyd> maybe a devfsadm -v will help
[05:23:42] <boyd> Wait
[05:24:01] <Atomdrache> Returns nothing.
[05:24:02] <boyd> You are looking for packages on the CDs, not in the dev directory on the CD
[05:24:17] <Atomdrache> Any particular place on the CDs?
[05:24:29] <Atomdrache> I thought there might at least be something about framebuffers in /dev.
[05:25:00] <boyd> That's only device files that point to kernel table entries for when you boot off the CD
[05:25:03] <boyd> Solaris_11/Product
[05:25:08] <boyd> on the CD is where the pkgs are
[05:25:27] <boyd> on the 1st CD there may be slices (s0, s1, etc). You want s0
[05:25:42] <Atomdrache> So that's on the first CD?
[05:26:15] <boyd> the slice thing is 1st CD only. The Solaris_11/Product path will be under that on the 1st CD and at the toplevel of the others
[05:27:49] <Atomdrache> Okay, trying that again.  I may have been in the wrong slice.
[05:28:59] <Atomdrache> Awesome!
[05:29:01] <Atomdrache> There they are.
[05:29:02] <Atomdrache> Thanks.
[05:29:42] <Atomdrache> So...SUNWafb, SUNWafbcf, SUNWafbr, SUNWafbw, anything else?
[05:30:08] <boyd> I dunno... I don't have the media handy.. Tempt?
[05:30:08] <Atomdrache> Actually...I see SUNWafb.u.  What's that about?
[05:30:29] <boyd> Atomdrache: in that dir you can use pkginfo -d . <pkgname>
[05:30:30] <Atomdrache> ls | grep SUNWafb returns SUNWafb.u, SUNWafbcf, SUNWafbr, and SUNWafbw.
[05:30:49] <Atomdrache> I know, but I want to know what's up with this .u business.  Is that still the right package?
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[05:36:39] <Atomdrache> Hmm... when I do pkgadd -d . SUNWafb.u, it refers to itself as <SUNWafb>, so it's probably all right.
[05:37:04] <Atomdrache> I think later I'll try plugging one of those cards in and seeing if Solaris will recognize it.
[05:37:17] <Atomdrache> Because I understand they're a bit better than the Raptor card that's in here.
[05:37:26] <Atomdrache> (at least, so some Sun documentation suggests)
[05:37:46] <Atomdrache> Again, thanks.
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[05:38:56] <snappy> u/win last
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[05:40:14] <boyd> Atomdrache: No prob... good luck
[05:42:01] <Tempt> boyd: What's happening? Any excitement?
[05:42:12] <boyd> Thrill a minute :)
[05:42:29] <jmcp> Tempt: sod-all
[05:42:41] <jmcp> unless you're in Melbourne, in which case there's even less happening
[05:43:10] <Tempt> Hmm. Could be a good opportunity for a beer.
[05:43:33] <jmcp> :)
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[05:43:39] <jmcp> isn't it always?
[05:43:55] <boyd> jmcp: Oy! I resemble that remark
[05:44:03] * jmcp pokes tongue out at boyd
[05:44:25] * boyd is arranging travel to Mumbai for next month
[05:44:50] <jmcp> joy
[05:45:21] <Tempt> Mumbai?
[05:45:30] <Tempt> Why?
[05:46:02] <boyd> I'm going all the way there to teach DTrace for 3 days. <sigh />
[05:46:07] <Tempt> Meh.
[05:46:14] <Tempt> I don't think I'd be in such a hurry to go there.
[05:46:31] <boyd> I hope they don't think they're getting brendang
[05:46:46] <Tempt> Hah.
[05:46:55] <Tempt> You might get mobbed by an entire outsource support group.
[05:46:55] <boyd> Tempt: I'm in no hurry. I'd drop it tomorrow if I could.
[05:47:20] <Tempt> Can't you claim some reason for not travelling? Say you were deported last time you were there?
[05:47:34] <boyd> Heh... bruised my thumb
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[06:04:16] <lloy0076> jmcp: You think nothing happens in Melbourne? Try Adelaide.
[06:04:57] <jmcp> I think of Adelaide as a great place to go to .... to get somewhere nice
[06:05:03] <jmcp> like the Coonawarra or Barossa
[06:05:04] * jmcp shrugs
[06:05:43] <boyd> That's not true... I read about something happening in Adelaide in the paper at some point
[06:06:00] <boyd> Can't remember what it was exactly, but it was certainly something.
[06:06:17] * jmcp chuckles
[06:06:30] <jmcp> istr sommerfeld saying that he went to an IETF meeting there back in the early 1990s
[06:08:17] <Tempt> They've had a few shootings.
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[06:11:05] <jmcp> and some barrelling
[06:12:30] <boyd> IETF meeting in Adelaide... must have been for IP on X.25 or something
[06:15:26] <Tempt> I just asked our SOA project which services the initial deployment will encompass
[06:15:41] <Tempt> They don't actually have any services to deploy, they're just building the infra in case someone needs it.
[06:17:06] <Tempt> boyd: IP over stage coach
[06:18:33] <boyd> Tempt: They have too much time and money. Get some.
[06:22:38] <Tempt> boyd: Actually, I understand my contract is being paid out of the SOA project budget ;)
[06:23:07] <boyd> Good old SOA... it's the Y2K of 2007 :)
[06:25:08] <Tempt> Last years EAI with shiny new coat of Oracle.
[06:25:38] <Tempt> Nobody so far has managed to explain what they are trying to achieve.
[06:25:57] <Tempt> boyd: http://www.soafacts.com
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[06:26:31] <boyd> Ha!
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[06:36:26] <EchoBinary> apologies re: floppy explenation, i was otherwise occupied - is it possible to eject the solaris express dev. ed. during install to load up a driver? (say for a raid card?)
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[07:05:40] <steleman> yo kszwed :-)
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[07:08:41] <e^ipi> hey steleman
[07:08:53] <steleman> hiya e^ipi
[07:09:02] <jmcp> hi steleman
[07:09:13] <steleman> hi jmcp :-)
[07:09:41] <razrX> morning all
[07:09:53] <jmcp> good morning razrX
[07:10:12] <razrX> when i try to mount an ISO image with lofiadm on sxce 67 i get: hsfs mount: /dev/lofi/1 is not an hsfs file system.
[07:10:15] <steleman> razrX: Motorola RazR running X ? :-)
[07:10:31] <razrX> lofiadm -a /home/marcovl/downz/nevada-isos/sol-nv-b68-x86-dvd.iso /dev/lofi/1
[07:10:36] <razrX> steleman: yupz :)
[07:10:43] <razrX> j/k
[07:10:59] <razrX> mount -F hsfs -o ro /dev/lofi/1 /mnt
[07:11:04] <razrX> hsfs mount: /dev/lofi/1 is not an hsfs file system.
[07:11:10] <razrX> will stop flooding now
[07:11:15] <steleman> razrX: try udfs
[07:11:28] <e^ipi> anyone know if there's some standard for openboot/openfirmware machines booting off a floppy?
[07:11:37] <razrX> steleman: will try that but has above has never failed on me before
[07:12:06] <e^ipi> like, should the kernel be written to the disk raw, or as a file on a filesystem, or ?
[07:14:15] <razrX> nevermind folks, it appears my downloaded 68 chunks are not right, can mount 67 build without probs
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[07:14:54] <WickedWicky8> good morning all
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[07:24:06] <kszwed> hi steleman :)
[07:24:08] <oxygene> e^ipi: file vs. raw mostly depends on what your OF setup provides - usually raw, except if OF only loads a boot block that takes care of the rest, and if interpose isn't implemented (which would give OF file access)
[07:25:23] <e^ipi> i'm still trying to coax my IBM machine in to booting polaris
[07:32:31] <sickness> omg kewl =)
[07:32:47] <sickness> so polaris is complete?
[07:32:52] <e^ipi> hell no
[07:32:57] <sickness> oh
[07:32:58] <sickness> k
[07:33:24] <e^ipi> Sun's scuttled the project for a long time, and I'm determined to finish it, even if I have to do it alone & it takes 5 years
[07:33:48] <e^ipi> step one is to get the damned thing to boot on my 44p
[07:35:55] * Tempt offers a J50 for testing.
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[07:37:15] <e^ipi> umm... the 44p is a POWER3 machine... J50's a 603e innit?
[07:39:03] <e^ipi> and even the 44p is obsolete ( won't run AIX6 )
[07:40:37] <Tempt> 604
[07:40:48] <Tempt> 604e
[07:40:51] <Tempt> 200Mhz?
[07:41:16] <Tempt> You know, I could always contribute testing on a supported platform for Solaris PowerPC
[07:41:19] <Tempt> Motorola Powerstack
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[07:43:28] <WickedWicky8> anyone here aware of what might potentialy happen when one replaces a cache battery in a SE3510?
[07:43:47] <Tempt> WickedWicky8: You get your write caching back?
[07:43:58] <WickedWicky8> that's a good thing :D
[07:43:59] <EchoBinary> dont cross the streams
[07:44:06] <WickedWicky8> I woke up this morning with the horrid feeling something would go wrong ;P
[07:44:35] <Tempt> The battery may be faulty; it may explode and destroy your array.
[07:44:37] * WickedWicky8 is on his way to the datacenter now to recieve the DHL pckage and wait for the sun engineer
[07:44:48] <Tempt> You're getting an engineer to do that?
[07:44:50] <Tempt> Slackarse.
[07:44:53] <WickedWicky8> eh
[07:45:14] <WickedWicky8> we have platinum contracts, we're not supposed to open the machines unless we want to void our support
[07:45:16] <WickedWicky8> it's not my idea.
[07:45:29] <Tempt> Heh.
[07:45:34] <Tempt> That's painful.
[07:45:40] <WickedWicky8> replacing a hard drive makes me having to log a case already
[07:45:57] <Tempt> You need to get someone out to replace a spindle?
[07:45:58] <Tempt> Geez.
[07:47:28] <jmcp> Tempt: with Platinum support, that's what you're paying for
[07:47:41] <Tempt> I guess so.
[07:47:56] <Tempt> I always just replaced my own parts unless the engineer wasn't happy with that for some reason.
[07:48:06] <Tempt> (usually machines >= 6800)
[07:48:47] <WickedWicky8> Tempt: I work for KPN Telecom in the netherlands
[07:48:53] <WickedWicky8> they're paranoid  :P
[07:49:04] <WickedWicky8> and they can afford the costs, so why bother
[07:49:13] <WickedWicky8> when I log a case I have a sun engineer on sight within 4 hours
[07:49:36] <WickedWicky8> after work hours I get directed to Sun UK, which has the advantage of getting attended by female attendancies with cute brittish accents
[07:49:41] <WickedWicky8> so it's all win win for me :P
[07:49:47] <sickness> that's not bad, so why are you whining? :)
[07:49:52] <Tempt> Hey.
[07:49:57] <Tempt> That's better than getting sent to Sun India.
[07:50:01] <sickness> I whish I had that level of support at my previous jobplace!
[07:50:06] <Tempt> Where you might as well not bother.
[07:50:12] <WickedWicky8> i am not, its just thjat i am in the train now :P
[07:50:21] <sickness> instead, when something broke inside our colocated rack, I had to drive 200km by car, and replace it, and get my ass back at home :/
[07:50:39] <Tempt> I used to have to walk 200km in the snow
[07:50:44] <Tempt> climb up 18 flights of stairs
[07:50:45] <sickness> ...
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[07:50:50] <Tempt> and undo the screws with me teeth
[07:51:11] <Tempt> Kids these days, they just don't understand ..
[07:52:48] <WickedWicky8> Tempt: i am not roar-ish enough for that
[07:53:09] <WickedWicky8> and snow we hardly have here :P
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[07:54:02] <palowoda> Do they offer the cute female british accents with a basic support contract?
[07:54:10] <WickedWicky8> we have dutch national railway services, thats as bad as it gets for me, the rest is all good :)
[07:54:25] <WickedWicky8> palowoda not sure!
[07:56:04] <Tempt> palowoda: Nope, you get smelly Indian men with no knowledge of UNIX.
[07:56:43] <Tempt> palowoda: If you get the Super-Hyper-Extended Platinum contract, they'll send out strippers at the same time as the engineer so you don't get bored during a diags boot.
[07:56:56] <WickedWicky8> network appliance has italians
[07:57:01] <WickedWicky8> \o/
[07:57:28] <WickedWicky8> Tempt \: haha!
[07:58:06] <palowoda> I guess you get what you pay for.
[07:58:57] 
[08:00:31] <CIA-26> jmcp: 6566815 Changes for 6502231 broke g11n in stmsboot
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[08:06:56] <stormz> developers: who knows where I can find the setup configuration code that is used after sys-unconfig?
[08:09:55] <stormz> especialy network configuration?
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[08:23:46] <CIT> hey
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[08:24:28] <edwardocallaghan> Who's around ?
[08:24:35] <boyd> I'm not
[08:24:40] <e^ipi> i am, for some values of "around"
[08:24:57] <edwardocallaghan> I am lookinf for a bit of help with CoolStack
[08:25:04] <edwardocallaghan> boyd:Hey
[08:25:07] <WickedWicky8> I'm 57KGs, not really round or around
[08:25:09] <e^ipi> i will be of very little help
[08:25:31] <boyd> Nor I, I'm afraid
[08:26:14] <WickedWicky8> omg, they put a coffee maker in the control room. This day is gonna rule
[08:26:46] <edwardocallaghan> lol
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[08:27:04] <edwardocallaghan> Where is wget with Solaris :p
[08:27:14] <boyd>  /usr/sfw/bin
[08:27:15] <e^ipi> my travel mug /is/ a coffee maker
[08:27:32] <e^ipi> and i don't have to drink gross drip coffee while I'm at it, so yay
[08:27:49] <WickedWicky8> gnome-terminal is giving me artifacts (spelling) since I use nevada68 btw
[08:28:07] <WickedWicky8> weird characters that disapear automagicly
[08:28:23] <edwardocallaghan> boyd:Thanks ;)
[08:28:53] <WickedWicky8> e^ipi: the coffee here isn't that bad. I used to go to Canada three times a year, after you had that coffee over there you'll drink anything
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[08:29:17] <razrX> lol WickedWicky8
[08:29:26] <e^ipi> WickedWicky8: canadian coffee?
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[08:29:44] <e^ipi> but the climate's all wrong.... that wouldn't work
[08:29:45] <WickedWicky8> e^ipi: yea... the only decent coffee over there you get at Tim's
[08:29:55] <e^ipi> no... umm...
[08:29:56] <e^ipi> no..
[08:30:12] <e^ipi> tim hortons' coffee is the worst swill i've ever drank
[08:30:12] <razrX> WickedWicky8: i hope yur not talking about Senseo coffee here which you find not that bad
[08:30:15] <e^ipi> it's quite terrible
[08:30:34] <WickedWicky8> Senseo is okay
[08:30:45] <Tempt> No.
[08:30:49] <WickedWicky8> it is till an extend
[08:30:50] <razrX> lol, luckily taste is a very personal thing :P
[08:30:55] <WickedWicky8> all filtered coffee sucks imo
[08:30:57] <Tempt> Only freshly roasted ground-30-seconds-ago coffee is acceptable.
[08:30:58] <WickedWicky8> but hey
[08:30:59] <edwardocallaghan> I did /usr/sfw/bin/wget URL_TO_COOL_STACK and it says file name too long ?
[08:31:06] <e^ipi> yeah, drip coffee should be illegal
[08:31:09] <e^ipi> it's a waste of beans
[08:31:14] <razrX> e^ipi: so true
[08:31:17] <Tempt> Preparation is limited to espresso, vacuum pot or plunger in a panic situation
[08:31:25] <WickedWicky8> I used to live for a year in Brazil, since i had a brazilian girlfriend
[08:31:27] <edwardocallaghan> Tempt:Hey
[08:31:31] <WickedWicky8> so I guess I am spoiled a bit :P
[08:31:32] <boyd> edwardocallaghan: you may have to use -O to set a local file name to use
[08:31:40] <edwardocallaghan> Ah
[08:32:02] <e^ipi> Tempt, I like press/plunger *shrug*
[08:32:06] <cmihai> e^ipi: use -o
[08:32:08] <cmihai> erm
[08:32:14] <cmihai> edwardocallaghan: use -o bla
[08:32:23] <WickedWicky8> but serious, coffee in canadian hotels is unacceptable
[08:32:35] <e^ipi> of course it is
[08:32:42] <cmihai> As in /usr/sfw/bi/wget "url_to_coolstack" -o output
[08:32:47] <Tempt> e^ipi: Vacuum pot is a better way.
[08:32:54] <WickedWicky8> isnt it --output-document?
[08:32:59] <WickedWicky8> I thought -o was for logging
[08:33:01] <Tempt> e^ipi: That said, since I'm at work I'm drinking a mug of plunger right now.
[08:33:08] <boyd> cmihai: It's -O, not -o
[08:33:13] <cmihai> Whatever.
[08:33:16] <cmihai> He can read the manual :-)
[08:33:26] <WickedWicky8> morning Mary kate
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[08:34:17] * boyd gives up and catch-ups indiana-discuss
[08:34:25] <cmihai> Oh noes :-)
[08:34:43] <boyd> I only had 1536 posts to go
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[08:36:04] <Tempt> I bet that makes for exciting reading.
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[08:36:25] <cmihai> Still, I guess SXCE looks better :-).
[08:36:29] <edwardocallaghan> no man pages to the system I got a sesion in :'(
[08:36:37] <boyd> Hmm... new search on docs.s.c "Customers will now experience the same highly relevant results that are available on many other Sun web sites and applications"
[08:36:38] <cmihai> edwardocallaghan: wget --help?
[08:36:39] <WickedWicky8> wget --help
[08:36:42] <boyd> not sure about that
[08:36:50] <WickedWicky8> or www.google.com
[08:37:01] <cmihai> boyd: relevant? ha!
[08:37:01] <WickedWicky8> and type: man wget , as search
[08:37:10] <cmihai> Since when was docs.sun.com search relevant?
[08:37:12] <edwardocallaghan> Its -O is the correct one for ref
[08:37:26] <cmihai> Yeah, we've already established that.
[08:37:29] <edwardocallaghan> cmihai:Thanks I already worked it out
[08:37:55] <WickedWicky8> to think of it, everybody could do my job.. as long as they know how to use google
[08:38:03] <edwardocallaghan> boyd:Thanks boyd
[08:38:13] <cmihai> WickedWicky8: tech support?
[08:38:30] <e^ipi> WickedWicky8, you'd be surprised how many people /can't/ use google
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[08:38:32] <WickedWicky8> tech support/sysadmin/making power point presentations for managers to beg for funding/la la
[08:38:34] <cmihai> If so, yeah, anyone can do your job ;P
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[08:39:23] <WickedWicky8> I am just not sure how many people can endure the project managers I have to deal with.. but you tend to build a shield around yourself for that :P
[08:39:48] <boyd> Well, on my first 5 searches I'm not sure if it's better or worse, but it's certainly crap
[08:40:00] <cmihai> WickedWicky8: get real, we all have to deal with those :-]
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[08:40:30] <WickedWicky8> cmihai: I guess :D
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[08:40:41] <edwardocallaghan> I am still looking for a doc on docs.sun.com that shows you how to setup a SAMP with CoolStack ?
[08:40:43] <cmihai> They surround themselves with ignorance, and I surround myself with arogance and cynicism.
[08:40:54] <WickedWicky8> body: the first search gives me the man page for wget o.O
[08:40:57] <cmihai> It's a good deal :-)
[08:41:05] <edwardocallaghan> One with the svcs type stuff..
[08:42:17] <WickedWicky8> cynicism rules. Where would the world be without cynicism and sarcasm
[08:43:08] <cmihai> Right here...
[08:43:22] <e^ipi> probably somewhere shitty
[08:44:08] <cmihai> Right. Here.
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[08:46:37] <edwardocallaghan> dclarke:Are you around ?
[08:47:14] <jmcp> he's not generally around for another few hours
[08:49:15] <cmihai> This is just odd.
[08:49:16] <cmihai> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=32645&tstart=15
[08:49:29] <cmihai> "Are there plans to integrate valgrind in solaris? Linux has a large
[08:49:29] <cmihai> lead in code quality because they have tools like valgrind. I think
[08:49:30] <cmihai> Solaris needs such a tool, too
[08:49:39] <Tempt> haha
[08:49:42] <Tempt> "lead in code quality"
[08:49:43] <Tempt> haha
[08:49:48] <cmihai> Am I the ONLY person who is aware of DTrace?
[08:49:55] <dlg> hahahahahaha
[08:49:59] * dlg roffle
[08:50:15] <Tempt> lollerskates
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[08:50:45] <WickedWicky8> my cache batteries arrived, hoorah
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[08:51:11] <Tempt> Anyone with "GNU/Solaris hacker" in their sig is pretty much stating the case right there.
[08:51:16] <WickedWicky8> it always amazes me how they pack stuff in a 15x40 carton box for a 3x5 item
[08:51:31] <jmcp> WickedWicky8: so try to crush that carton :)
[08:51:44] <WickedWicky8> haha, I might!
[08:51:55] <dlg> Tempt: one of the huge advantages of solaris in my eyes is that it isnt gnu
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[08:52:05] * dlg prefers a libc with strlcpy/strlcat
[08:52:10] <Tempt> I'm also trying to work out where HP and Dell factor into the Linux Code Quality tree
[08:52:29] <Tempt> dlg: Keep that up and they'll never let you work on Indiana.
[08:52:42] <dlg> "damn"
[08:53:03] <cmihai> IBM? They have AIX and OS/360 to compete with Linux... HP has HP-UX, Tru64 UNIX and OpenVMS... wouldn't make sense ;-]
[08:53:50] <cmihai> Well, z/OS now, but whatever.
[08:54:18] <_mary_kate_> support: "This bug is fixed in [software version that hasn't been released yet].  Please upgrade."  us: "Okay, please release the software first."
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[08:55:23] <Tempt> Apparently Dell is busy cranking out quality code (tested with valgrind!) for Linux
[08:55:24] <dlg> cmihai: to be fair though, how does dtrace notice when you lose a reference to memory?
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[08:58:12] <edwardocallaghan> I've been following this Indiana thing and I STILL don't know what it is
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[08:59:12] <edwardocallaghan> Why don't they do <~Project_Package_Managment_For_Solaris~>
[08:59:38] <e^ipi> it's just a Sun Marketing thing
[08:59:57] <e^ipi> don't worry about it
[09:00:08] <edwardocallaghan> ok
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[09:01:06] <edwardocallaghan> Are there any tools around that help me turn a init service into a svc one ?
[09:01:25] <e^ipi> a keyboard
[09:01:29] <edwardocallaghan> I'm really still learning about svc ..
[09:01:32] <razrX> lol
[09:01:44] <edwardocallaghan> e^ipi:Whats that?
[09:02:01] <edwardocallaghan> A mouse with more bottons ?
[09:02:32] <WickedWicky8> yea, lol has qwerty axises
[09:02:51] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[09:03:01] <blueandwhiteg3> I have a zpool and I'd like to have the drives spin down when not in use. Is this possible under solaris?
[09:03:16] <Tempt> Bash 'em with a hammer and they won't bother you again
[09:03:19] <edwardocallaghan> Is there a reason why these cool stacks don't run as one out the box ?
[09:03:22] <cmihai> blueandwhiteg3: what will that get you?
[09:03:31] <cmihai> blueandwhiteg3: according to Google studies, it won't save disk lifetime...
[09:03:34] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: Because they need cool admins to look after them
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[09:03:40] <blueandwhiteg3> cmihai: reduced power consumption?
[09:03:47] <cmihai> Eh
[09:03:50] <blueandwhiteg3> cmihai: reduced noise
[09:03:51] <cmihai> How many disks?
[09:03:58] <cmihai> Who cares about noise.
[09:04:38] <edwardocallaghan> Tempt:lol I mean why can't you do scvadm start network/CSKamp ?
[09:04:50] <edwardocallaghan> or somting ?
[09:05:03] <WickedWicky8> what you really want is to put an old Enterprise 450 server next to your disks, so you wont hear the noise of your disks anymore
[09:05:06] <Tempt> Because you haven't written any manifests for them yet.
[09:05:11] <cmihai> CSKamp? That's hardly a proper name for a application.
[09:05:20] <cmihai> Besides, you don't start a whole "stack", it's sill.y
[09:05:21] <blueandwhiteg3> cmihai: I care about noise due to the server living at my home.
[09:05:57] <edwardocallaghan> why don't the manifests come with the pkg ?
[09:05:59] <WickedWicky8> ok, good point :P
[09:06:06] <WickedWicky8> (to blueandwhiteg3)
[09:06:07] <cmihai> You can start the stuf individually, it's normal. Besides, CSKamp is Apache and MySQL, squid and tomcat. Not much else to start.
[09:06:20] <jmcp> blueandwhiteg3: purchase newer, quieter disks
[09:06:27] <cmihai> put it in another room.
[09:06:35] <cmihai> Powering down disks won't get you anywhere.
[09:06:38] <WickedWicky8> or store less porn
[09:06:39] <jmcp> blueandwhiteg3: ZFS controls your disks. Don't try to take them away from ZFS control or you'll get panics
[09:06:42] <WickedWicky8> so you need less disks
[09:06:49] <edwardocallaghan> amp does not have squid or tomcat ?
[09:07:00] <cmihai> edwardocallaghan: eh?
[09:07:03] <WickedWicky8> amp has apache mysql and php
[09:07:10] <WickedWicky8> that's what amp stands for
[09:07:20] <blueandwhiteg3> I don't want to debate the pros and cons of the physical implications of spinning down disk, but I do want to understand the software side of things.
[09:07:27] <cmihai> squid and tomcat is separate.
[09:07:32] <cmihai> But part of coolstack.
[09:07:45] <edwardocallaghan> I know what
[09:07:46] <blueandwhiteg3> I don't want to screw with the disks, I just wanted some kind of idle spin down
[09:07:51] <blueandwhiteg3> Is that not possible?
[09:07:52] <edwardocallaghan> thats what I was saying
[09:07:55] <jmcp> no, it's not
[09:08:06] <jmcp> blueandwhiteg3: if you want to enable power management ... that's something else
[09:08:13] <blueandwhiteg3> jmcp: Basically, yes.
[09:08:29] <jmcp> but seriously, unless you want to re-write the internals of zfs so that you and only you control when data gets flushed to disk then you're s.o.l.
[09:08:42] <jmcp> and I don't recommend you try to futz with the design and implementation of zfs
[09:08:46] <cmihai> Eh, power management won't power down disks under ZFS.
[09:09:01] <blueandwhiteg3> jmcp: I'm not trying to do that. I guess I might as well program the whole machine to shut off or something.
[09:09:11] <jmcp> that would be much more sensible
[09:09:40] <jmcp> rtfm for powerd, pmconfig and power.conf
[09:09:49] <Tempt> You could export the zpool
[09:09:50] <cmihai> dtpower for GUI tool
[09:09:55] <Tempt> and cfgadm -c unconfigure the disks
[09:10:19] <edwardocallaghan> Why is there nothing in the Doc's that come with COOL STACK's about starting up services andbring them down
[09:10:32] <Tempt> Mate.
[09:10:36] <Tempt> Read the READMEs
[09:10:46] <Tempt> And then treat the CSK packages like any other UNIX packages.
[09:10:47] <edwardocallaghan> I'm from a REDHAT back ground as you all know by now :p
[09:10:54] <Tempt> If you get manifests or whatever, lovely.
[09:10:57] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: www.angryflower.com to treat your problem with apostrophes
[09:10:58] <Tempt> If you don't, work it out.
[09:11:03] <edwardocallaghan> I read all the READ files
[09:11:08] <blueandwhiteg3> Now, why does spinning a drive down require flushing the cache?
[09:11:25] <jmcp> blueandwhiteg3: think about it
[09:11:27] <Tempt> blueandwhiteg3: Because if you lose power you ain't gonna be writing that cache?
[09:11:46] <blueandwhiteg3> But 'sleeping' drives still draw a bit of current
[09:11:50] <Tempt> blueandwhiteg3: Modern drives actually use reserve power to write out the last bits of cache during a powerdown (including power derived from the spindle)
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[09:13:12] <Tempt> And (possibly) because someone (a moron, no doubt) though (ha!) that people might be more concerned (indeed!) about their data being written back to media (the cheek of it!) than the couple of seconds cache write time (ha!)
[09:13:30] <blueandwhiteg3> well, a drive spin down is different than cutting the power
[09:13:56] <jmcp> blueandwhiteg3: how much do you know about how each disk drive's firmware handles this?
[09:13:57] <Tempt> Once a drive spins down, it no longer has a rotating platter, right?
[09:14:17] <Tempt> So it can't rely on that power source to help write back the cache and park the heads.
[09:14:30] <blueandwhiteg3> Hmm. I suppose that could be a problem.
[09:14:38] <edwardocallaghan> :( The README files just say how it waws built, there are so many howto/docs on how to do a LAMP I am very surpriced that there is a lack of it here ?
[09:14:58] <jmcp> blueandwhiteg3: the point is that you've got a black box, and *you* cannot guarantee the behaviour
[09:15:01] <WickedWicky8> I have no idea how ZFS works tbh but wont you get parity/metadata issues within your pool when you spin down disks?
[09:15:02] <e^ipi> you have mysql, you have apache
[09:15:02] <Tempt> I still think it makes a nifty idea to use the rotational energy in a disk to power the shutdown procedure.
[09:15:45] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: perhaps it was thought that with so much doco out there, it shouldn't be necessary to write solaris-specific stuff too. Especially since the stack components are supposed to work the same way
[09:16:12] <Tempt> Perhaps they figure that people can at least write a quick script, stick it in /etc/init.d and make some symlinks
[09:16:13] <edwardocallaghan> OK
[09:16:15] <blueandwhiteg3> The google studies do show really interesting results about disk lifetimes and temperatures and such
[09:16:26] <cmihai> Eh
[09:16:29] <Tempt> Yes. They say leave your disks spinning and they'll love you.,
[09:16:36] <Tempt> turn them on and off all the time and they'll hate you.
[09:16:47] <cmihai> I think the Sun Download Manager (webstart) is somewhat broken for CoolStack.
[09:16:56] <cmihai> It fails to download 3 files that download fine with Firefox.
[09:16:57] <jmcp> extra power draw, spiking ... it'll cause a lot of tears
[09:16:58] <Tempt> (which has been common knowledge for a long time)
[09:17:18] <edwardocallaghan> cmihai:Yes I found that as well
[09:17:25] <blueandwhiteg3> Hence why I kill my notebook drive every six months or so....
[09:17:28] <Tempt> Heh, the manual for my first Sun machine actually tells the user not to turn it off unless maintaining or moving it.
[09:17:30] <e^ipi> Tempt, you don't need an init script
[09:17:31] <edwardocallaghan> I wget in to my zone though
[09:17:40] <Tempt> "This is a professional workstation, not a PC"
[09:17:42] <e^ipi> apache & mysql are /already/ in SMF
[09:17:43] <blueandwhiteg3> Tempt: Haha
[09:17:58] <blueandwhiteg3> I would be curious about the impact of usage (seeks, reads, writes) on drive longevity
[09:18:14] <Tempt> e^ipi: I mean if SMF is too hard, you can still do things the old way.
[09:18:17] <blueandwhiteg3> I feel like i cycle through a lot of disks.
[09:18:26] <e^ipi> right... but you don't need to do a thing
[09:18:37] <e^ipi> svcadm enable mysql && svcadm enable apache2
[09:18:39] <e^ipi> done
[09:19:11] <edwardocallaghan> Is PHP there ?
[09:19:19] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[09:19:26] <_mary_kate_> you don't "start" php, it's an apache module
[09:19:47] <edwardocallaghan> of coruse
[09:20:06] <quasi> _mary_kate_: or a seperate binary
[09:20:21] <WickedWicky8> php doesnt have init scripts since there is nothing to start up
[09:20:22] <WickedWicky8> p
[09:20:24] <_mary_kate_> quasi: or a fastcgi server, in which case you would start it.  but in coolstack i believe it's a module
[09:20:46] <quasi> they should consider fastcgi
[09:21:30] <edwardocallaghan> If I want to start up a small home server/home website its very easy on Linux without my know how
[09:21:39] <e^ipi> it's easy on solaris too
[09:21:46] <e^ipi> step 1: forget about the crap way linux does thinsg
[09:21:58] <edwardocallaghan> I just would have thought they would have done the same with coolstack
[09:21:59] <e^ipi> step 2: svcadm enable mysql && svcadm enable apache2
[09:22:04] * Tempt 's head explodes
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[09:22:25] <edwardocallaghan> Tempt:hehe
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[09:23:03] <trygvis> hm, anyone know the ETA for the integration of xen?
[09:23:10] <cmihai> No.
[09:23:20] <cmihai> trygvis: I'd say Solaris 11 or 12 :-)
[09:23:33] <cmihai> Right now you have LDOMs, Containers (Zones) and qemu ;-]
[09:23:45] <cmihai> Or you could use VMware Infrastructure 3
[09:23:57] <jmcp> trygvis: no. I thought I knew, but I've realised I was optimistic
[09:24:28] <quasi> trygvis: they were about to do another codedrop base on b66
[09:24:47] <quasi> trygvis: some time this month
[09:24:48] <trygvis> yeah, I remember that, so I assumed it should be pretty close
[09:25:02] <quasi> trygvis: but a codedrop, not integration
[09:25:03] <trygvis> it was to be the last one before it was integrated IIRC
[09:25:04] <edwardocallaghan> Whats the ETA on the nfo driver ?
[09:25:15] <dlg> nfo?
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[09:25:27] <edwardocallaghan> Nvid NIC
[09:25:36] <quasi> edwardocallaghan: downloadable off the net already
[09:25:43] <trygvis> cmihai: is qemu running anywhere near as fast as xen or vmware?
[09:25:51] <edwardocallaghan> Intergration ?
[09:26:01] <jmcp> integration
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[09:26:20] <edwardocallaghan> %s/// thats the one
[09:26:23] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: isn't that Murayama's version of nge?
[09:26:42] <edwardocallaghan> yea it supports more though
[09:26:45] <jmcp> yes
[09:26:55] <e^ipi> my card is one of murayama's as well, no plans to integrate
[09:26:56] <jmcp> so why do you assume that it's going to be integrated?
[09:26:57] <e^ipi> ( sfe )
[09:27:08] <edwardocallaghan> I could neaver get this NIC to work like last week or so ago
[09:27:25] <dlg> e^ipi: thats not a solarflare nic is it?
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[09:28:21] <e^ipi> nah, it's a shitty SiS card
[09:28:52] <dlg> k
[09:28:59] * dlg would have been jealous otherwise
[09:30:41] <e^ipi> yeah, this card is nothing to be jealous of
[09:30:55] <e^ipi> it came with my $40 motherboard
[09:34:59] <trygvis> I wonder if xen devices can boot of an iscsi storage
[09:35:20] <trygvis> ideally I would like to install solaris over nfs
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[09:37:58] <edwardocallaghan> http://blogs.sun.com/shanti/entry/smf_support_for_apache_in found this, looks very helpful
[09:38:51] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: didn't you find the s10++ integrated manifest and method for apache?
[09:42:38] <edwardocallaghan> you meen, the built in Apache in Solaris?
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[09:42:42] <jmcp> yeah
[09:43:08] <edwardocallaghan> yea its there
[09:43:33] <edwardocallaghan> has that got php to work out the box?
[09:43:53] <edwardocallaghan> I was recommended to use CoolStack you see...?
[09:44:34] <jmcp> it doesn't have php out of the box, no.
[09:44:47] <jmcp> have you tried building up php using the installed/supplied apache?
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[09:46:03] <cmihai> edwardocallaghan: convert CoolStack to SMF mate, it's easy
[09:46:06] <cmihai> edwardocallaghan: http://blogs.sun.com/downstream/entry/just_in_time_coolstack read,
[09:48:03] <edwardocallaghan> thanks
[09:48:18] <edwardocallaghan> http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5151897&messageID=9577269 was not much help :p
[09:52:40] * jmcp dinners
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[09:54:22] <edwardocallaghan> cmihai:What way do you recommend I do it?
[09:54:44] <edwardocallaghan> There seems to be two ways, the first link I sent and your link
[09:54:57] <cmihai> edwardocallaghan: my link works.
[09:55:03] <cmihai> I didn't read the other link since I don't care.
[09:58:02] <edwardocallaghan> ok
[09:58:06] <edwardocallaghan> hahaha http://spiralbound.net/2006/06/06/sun-happy-meal-card/
[09:58:17] <cmihai> # svcs -xv CSKapache2
[09:58:17] <cmihai> svc:/network/http:CSKapache2 (Apache 2 HTTP server) State: online since Tue Jul 17 10:55:38 2007
[09:58:21] <cmihai> Get it>?
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[10:00:58] <quasi> CSK?
[10:01:23] <edwardocallaghan> yea nice!
[10:01:37] <edwardocallaghan> I did not know projadd command was for ?
[10:02:15] <razrX> quasi: CSK short for CoolStack aka AMP
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[10:02:47] <quasi> razrX: ah, I didn't make the connection
[10:03:16] <quasi> edwardocallaghan: man projadd should tell ;)
[10:03:41] <edwardocallaghan> just done that
[10:04:05] <edwardocallaghan> still don't know exactly what it is
[10:04:22] <edwardocallaghan> but i got a faint idea on it
[10:05:33] <quasi> edwardocallaghan: projects can be used for assigning resources
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[10:06:25] <edwardocallaghan> ok
[10:06:34] <edwardocallaghan> I will go read up on it
[10:06:35] <quasi> edwardocallaghan: man resource_controls
[10:06:57] <edwardocallaghan> ok will do
[10:07:24] <edwardocallaghan> Under "Minimize Apache's Service Privileges" is it asking me to do anything there ?
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[10:13:17] <edwardocallaghan> Oh, I got to get of this box
[10:13:25] <edwardocallaghan> Thanks for all the help lads
[10:14:00] <edwardocallaghan> dclarke:Check in on your mail
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[10:21:12] <Symmetria> quick question, the other day someone mentioned a network monitoring system called hybaric or something similar to that
[10:21:18] <Symmetria> and I cant remeber what it was called exactly
[10:22:41] <cmihai> Hyperic?
[10:22:46] <Symmetria> thats it!
[10:22:47] <Symmetria> thanks
[10:22:48] <cmihai> It's kind of like Nagios.
[10:23:45] <Symmetria> any good? how did you find it stacking up against nagios?
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[10:24:08] <Symmetria> and does it have things like graphing functionality, Im tired of trying to run one monitoring system and one graphing system, I really would like to collapse the 2
[10:24:10] <Symmetria> into a single platform
[10:24:50] <trygvis> have you looked at opennms? it is supposed to be pretty good
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[10:25:04] <_basta__> zabbix?
[10:25:53] <cmihai> Symmetria: it's nice.
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[10:26:10] <cmihai> Still, adding new features is a pain, like Nagios.
[10:26:13] <cmihai> Oh well.
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[10:27:25] <Symmetria> hrm, opennms is something I still need to evaluate
[10:27:30] <Symmetria> Im hoping itsnothing like hp nnm
[10:27:38] <Symmetria> because that thing makes me wanna insert a gun in my mouth and pull the trigger
[10:28:19] <renihs> no smart approach to commit suicide
[10:28:56] <Symmetria> renihs trust me, work with hp ov nnm for about 10 minutes and you'll also start to feel suicidal\
[10:29:01] <Symmetria> gawd its a fucking horrific piece of shit
[10:29:04] <cmihai> eh
[10:29:08] <renihs> ya but i wounted try your method
[10:29:25] <renihs> bullet always misses just enough to be in real mess afterwards :p
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[10:44:03] <Fish> hello
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[11:08:32] <timsf> Morning all
[11:09:46] <timsf> Hey thanks for spotting that problem with the bootfs tests Robin
[11:11:22] <seanmcg> Morning tim..
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[11:19:13] <ofu> where can I find out the meaning of tunables to ipge and e1000g modules?
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[11:40:53] <seanmcg> ofu: forget about ipge and keep with e1000g, ipge doesn't exist on opensolaris anymore :)
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[11:44:03] <seanmcg> ofu: also depends on the machine you're using with e1000g if you need tunings or not, usually one doesn't need tunings...
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[11:48:13] <ofu> seanmcg: we see strange network behaviour with the e1000g driver and try to find out whats going on
[11:49:49] <ofu> both x4200 and t2000
[11:50:44] <seanmcg> for t2000 check out www.solarisinternals.com, search the wiki there for e1000g and you'll get some tunings specific for T2000+e1000g.  Shouldn't need any for x4200
[11:51:02] <seanmcg> what version of solaris you running ?
[11:51:17] <ofu> Generic_125100-10
[11:51:34] <seanmcg> the e1000g driver has gone through a few levels of performance improvements over time...
[11:52:05] <quasi> seanmcg: most of those tuning params became less relevant when changing from ipge to the e1000g driver
[11:52:15] <quasi> at least afaict
[11:52:56] <seanmcg> Yup, quasi.  indeed with e1000g less or no tunings needed for most cases which is nice
[11:53:24] <quasi> seanmcg: absolutely
[11:55:23] <quasi> http://blogs.sun.com/ramblings/resource/tuning-ultrasparc-t1.pdf is getting a bit old, but still worth a read
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[12:01:41] <Tempt> ofu: Make sure you're up to date on patches
[12:01:52] <Tempt> ofu: I did a patch run and it cured a lot of my problems with e1000g
[12:02:28] <ofu> latest patchcluster installed
[12:03:11] <ofu> the problem seems to be, that with the e1000g-driver nfs-mounts are busy (iostat -xn) with asvc_t >1000mseconds
[12:03:30] <ofu> this does not happen with ipge
[12:03:31] <Tempt> ofu: Grab pca
[12:03:36] <Tempt> ofu: and patch it senseless
[12:03:46] <ofu> pca?
[12:03:55] <Tempt> ofu: google "pca solaris patch"
[12:04:10] <Tempt> ofu: It'll turn your patching nightmares into something less nightmare like.
[12:04:44] <ofu> Tempt: but for pca to work, the system has to talk to the world?
[12:04:48] <sickness> less nightmare... just a scary dream :P
[12:05:09] <Tempt> ofu: It helps for it to be able to talk to the world. You can work around.
[12:06:38] <Tempt> 125120 -- < 03 ---  39 SunOS 5.10: e1000g driver patch
[12:06:50] <Tempt> Got that one?
[12:07:25] <ofu> on sparc? 125120-03 is not installed
[12:08:05] <Tempt> Well, that's one to consider.
[12:08:16] <Tempt> Let me see if I can remember the other one that helped.
[12:08:26] <Tempt> 119246-21
[12:08:49] <Tempt> (Oh, and I only talk SPARC)
[12:09:15] <ofu> 119246? manpage-updates?
[12:09:42] <Tempt> Hey, I'm just grepping my last pile of patches for e1000g updates
[12:09:55] <Tempt> 123334-05
[12:10:18] <Tempt> 125120 is probably the winner.
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[12:11:39] <ofu> 123334-05 is installed, very nice thing for testing
[12:11:43] <Pietro_S> pity that nvidia cuda doesn't support solaris :9
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[12:16:48] <oxygene> Pietro_S: I wonder when runtimes such as java or .net use such capabilities in a transparent fashion (after all, that was the promise of hotspot - being capable of using the runtime host's capabilities properly, no?)
[12:18:45] <Pietro_S> because of big performance improvment btw. 1.5 1.6 java, I would say that it's already used at least some parts of standart library ...
[12:19:07] <oxygene> they probably only finally started to use the vector units of today's processors
[12:20:24] <Pietro_S> hard to say I never had enough free time and mood to look into java + jvm source
[12:20:30] <_mary_kate_> the QFS manual is not clear; it says i can grow a filesystem by editing mcf and running samgrowfs.  but then it says "To do any of the following, you must re-create the file system: ... * Add disks or partitions".  which is it?
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[12:21:24] <Pietro_S> but I surely would like to use nvidia GPU to do some math computations
[12:21:29] <oxygene> Pietro_S: I think it was 1.5 where I've found lots and lots of references of "486" being the target processor... though they probably only forgot to rename it (or didn't put all cpus models in their published source)
[12:22:15] <trygvis> as java 5+ are using more and more of the widgets from the OS it will automatically use the GPU for rendring
[12:22:44] <oxygene> trygvis: it's not about using the GPU for rendering - it's about using it for doing calculations
[12:22:52] <Tempt> That usually means a downhill slide in performance for anything without a GPU.
[12:22:53] <trygvis> for using the GPU for general stuff you will most likely need algorithms specialized for the GPU
[12:23:12] <trygvis> Tempt: not really as it will be as fast as the rest of the widgets
[12:23:28] <trygvis> so it will get the same optimalizations as the rest of the GUI
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[12:30:32] <Pietro_S> is pidgin/gaim fixed in latest vermilion build?
[12:31:22] <ofu> Tempt: 125120-03 solved my problems, thank you very much!
[12:31:30] <jmcp> Pietro_S: what, in a veterinary sense?
[12:31:42] <Tempt> ofu: Glad to help.
[12:31:49] <Tempt> ofu: Enjoy that quality Sun hardware!
[12:32:32] <Pietro_S> in jabber support ...
[12:32:37] <jmcp> no idea
[12:32:46] <jmcp> it might be listed in the JDS changelogs
[12:33:30] <ofu> Tempt: yes, I will
[12:33:47] * ofu is still waiting for a huron box :-(
[12:33:53] <Tempt> Huron?
[12:34:12] <ofu> mine is in Britain somewhere
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[13:28:18] <trochej> Jul 17 13:17:52 damian-laptop mac: [ID 744254 kern.info] NOTICE: wpi0 link up
[13:28:21] <trochej> Uhm
[13:28:24] <trochej> Jul 17 13:19:06 damian-laptop in.routed[2983]: [ID 559541 daemon.warning] 0.0.0.0 --> 172.16.40.19 disappeared from kernel
[13:30:02] <Tempt> err
[13:30:08] <Tempt> You're running riprouting on your laptop?
[13:30:36] <trochej> Tempt: I do? :)
[13:31:09] <asyd> in.routed is not only for rip but for default route discovery
[13:31:27] <Tempt> I didn't realise anyone used default route discovery.
[13:31:34] <asyd> same :)
[13:31:35] <Tempt> That's the tiny little world I live in.
[13:31:58] <Tempt> A world free of dhcp, dynamic route discovery, and where I run my own nameservers.
[13:32:10] <Auralis> as it should be
[13:32:20] <Tempt> It's a funny little world, but warm, cozy and comforting.
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[13:36:50] <Tempt> omgftwbbq .. Siouxsie/Banshees cover of This Wheel's On Fire ...
[13:38:16] <Tempt> Why is it easier to get things done with loud music? There must be a link somewhere.
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[13:39:40] <quasi> Tempt: that's easy - you're just distracting the part of your brain that would otherwise be busy getting you into trouble ;)
[13:40:09] <Tempt> Haha.
[13:40:10] <Tempt> Indeed.
[13:40:26] <_mary_kate_> is there any way to monitor megaraid controllers from within solaris?
[13:40:35] <Tempt> _mary_kate_: Of course!
[13:40:40] <_mary_kate_> how? :)
[13:40:42] <quasi> _mary_kate_: raidctl
[13:40:45] <Tempt> _mary_kate_: When the filesystems evaporate, you've lost too many disks!
[13:40:57] <_mary_kate_> quasi: isn't that only for LSI1030 (mpt)?
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[13:41:13] <quasi> _mary_kate_: oh yeah
[13:41:16] <kaiwai> :)
[13:41:51] <quasi> _mary_kate_: but it may still work to some extent
[13:41:59] <_mary_kate_> # raidctl
[13:42:00] <_mary_kate_> No RAID volumes found
[13:42:03] <_mary_kate_> apparently not.  :)
[13:42:34] <quasi> what kind of box?
[13:42:39] <_mary_kate_> V40z
[13:43:04] <quasi> it does work in a v40z
[13:43:22] <_mary_kate_> there are two different configs for v40z, the mpt/IME one and the megaraid one
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[13:44:20] <quasi> ah - maybe that's why - at least it works fine in the v40z I'm logged on to currently (and on the v20zs at $previous job)
[13:44:42] <quasi> but then both said No RAID volumes found before one was created ;)
[13:44:47] <_mary_kate_> yeah, i have another one with the mpt card and it's fine (although i use itmpt there anyway)
[13:45:37] <quasi> the v40z is a nice little box
[13:46:55] <ofu> are the powersupplies still so hot that you cant touch them?
[13:47:14] <quasi> not according to the sensors
[13:47:27] * kaiwai sings 'can't touch this!"
[13:47:48] * Tempt slaps kaiwai in the back of the head with a hammer
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[13:48:10] <Cyrille> you forgot to yell hammertime while doing that.
[13:48:13] <kaiwai> thats ok, I have a super high top hair cut - bounchs right off :)
[13:48:16] <kaiwai> *bounces
[13:48:34] <_mary_kate_> apparentry lsi/sun made a big press release about megaraid support in solaris, but forgot about monitoring tools :)
[13:48:48] * Tempt bashes ruby into talking to mysql
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[13:49:03] <ofu> hopefully, mpxio on sas is working soon
[13:49:12] <ofu> nice, cheap zfs storage boxes
[13:49:29] <edwardocallaghan> Hey
[13:49:38] <edwardocallaghan> dclarke:You up yet?
[13:49:43] <_mary_kate_> well, failing megaraid, what's a sane way to configure 6 146G disks (to give root + data) with svm?
[13:50:13] <Tempt> I didn't think the 40z had six spindles.
[13:50:14] <boyd> Tempt: Not watching Numb3rs tonight are you?
[13:50:17] <Tempt> Nifty.
[13:50:23] <Tempt> boyd: Numb3rs? What's that?
[13:50:26] <_mary_kate_> Tempt: it does once you remove the dvd
[13:50:36] <boyd> I'll take that as a no.
[13:50:41] <Tempt> _mary_kate_: Mirror/Stripe
[13:50:42] <boyd> TV show.
[13:50:45] <Tempt> boyd: Enlighten me.
[13:51:00] <ofu> i think 6 disks is only possible if you remove the cdrom
[13:51:07] <_mary_kate_> Tempt: but i can't use a strip as root, right?  only a two-disk mirror?  or am i wrong there..
[13:51:28] <boyd> I just watched a comp forensics person on the show fail take a captured hard drive and do the following increasingly unlikely things:
[13:51:31] <Tempt> _mary_kate_: I'm pretty used to 6x146, since that's a pretty common 880/890 config.
[13:51:53] <kszwed> someone should make CF readers that fit into a server cdrom/dvd slot
[13:51:56] <boyd> 1. plug it in to another machine and try to boot off it
[13:52:13] <Tempt> _mary_kate_: Root and var on spindles 0/1, /opt and /u00 on 2/3, /u01 on 4/5
[13:52:27] <Tempt> kszwed: How's the Niagara2 rocking along?
[13:52:30] <boyd> 2. say "It's not booting, so I'll just take off the cover" in a normal room.
[13:52:39] <boyd> 3. say "I
[13:52:50] <kszwed> Tempt, not sure I can comment in such a public forum :)
[13:52:58] <_mary_kate_> Tempt: i was thinking that (actually, 4 + 2), but it seems to waste a lot of space on root.  (this is a db server, i doubt root will approach 10GB)
[13:53:12] <boyd> 3. say "I'll use a magnetic head" and then wave a pen-like object over the disk and voila! data comes up!
[13:53:29] <Tempt> Amazing stuff!
[13:53:42] <Tempt> Almost like the credit cards in Alias that suck all the data out of the machine by sitting next to the keyboard.
[13:53:43] <boyd> kszwed: There's nobody listening here. Don't worry
[13:53:57] <boyd> Tempt: I gotta get me one of them
[13:54:15] <quasi> boyd: scary
[13:54:20] <Tempt> boyd: Oh, I have several. Pick one up next pub time.
[13:54:26] <boyd> Will do~
[13:54:33] <Tempt> boyd: Very handy for taking over the world, one laptop at a time.
[13:55:17] <boyd> Actually earlier tonight I saw someone say "we couldn't get any data from the laptop. The swap partition had been overwritten 7 times"
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[13:55:52] <boyd> If only they'd thought to look at, you know, some *file systems*
[13:55:56] <Tempt> boyd: The earlier seasons of Alias had a lot of their MovieOS machines obviously using Motif.
[13:56:01] <trochej> boyd: Uhm, insults the intelligence.
[13:56:15] <trochej> And people that just watch it and believe are even more insulting
[13:56:17] <boyd> Well, it *was* a Law and Order spinoff
[13:56:40] <Berny> morning folks
[13:56:48] <Berny> how usable is the nwam stuff?
[13:56:55] <Tempt> boyd: Numb3rs? (!) was a Law and Order spinoff?
[13:57:04] <boyd> No, two different shows
[13:57:27] <Berny> i tried it last night... found both nics... logged a msg to syslog, the it couldn't determine the login user and did nothing?
[13:57:45] <boyd> Tempt: I was earlier watching L&O: Criminal Intent and now Numb3rs. Do try to keep up :)
[13:57:58] <Tempt> Watched a few CIs lately.
[13:58:07] <Tempt> Detective with severe social dysfunctions.
[13:58:37] <boyd> Yeah, Goran.. I like the character... he's a but super-human... sorta a modern Sherlock holmes
[13:59:22] <Tempt> The modern Sherlock Holmes character is Dr. House.
[13:59:26] <_mary_kate_> Tempt: apparently, you weren't far off before: our linux database slaves apparently use raid 0.  the failure notification is when nagios finds the machine offline.  :)
[13:59:33] <edwardocallaghan> boy:Hey
[13:59:35] <Tempt> Goran is the L&O Ubermensch
[13:59:38] <edwardocallaghan> Tempt:Hey
[13:59:44] <boyd> hey edwardocallaghan
[14:00:09] <edwardocallaghan> This IRC is hard to read, all in one colour
[14:00:20] 
[14:00:39] <boyd> edwardocallaghan: I know what you mean
[14:00:50] <Tempt> Hey, Munch is apparently the longest-living TV character ever.
[14:00:55] <Tempt> He's been in about 6 different TV shows.
[14:01:01] <Tempt> And he crosses all the L&O.
[14:01:09] <Tempt> Yes, I've been killing time watching L&O a bit lately.
[14:01:15] <boyd> True.. He's pretty cool... but it's such a bit part most of the time
[14:01:33] 
[14:01:34] <edwardocallaghan> I wonder wehn dclarke is around, I really would like to get my cool stack going on my zone
[14:01:47] <Tempt> He's been getting a bit more speaking bits on SVU S7
[14:01:53] <edwardocallaghan> but i need root
[14:02:27] <boyd> Tempt: Really? He seemed to be stepping back in the shows I've seen lately
[14:02:48] <boyd> ... the occasional conspiracy theory remark but that's about it.
[14:03:07] <boyd> Pretty comfy relaxed job for an actor I'd think
[14:03:48] <boyd> edwardocallaghan: You don't have root? It's not really your zone, is it? :)
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[14:05:13] <Tempt> heh.
[14:05:19] <Tempt> Didn't I offer Edward a zone?
[14:05:24] <Tempt> (My zones aren't good enough)
[14:05:47] <boyd> Maybe dclarke has nicer domain names :)
[14:05:57] <Tempt> Hey, I have *fantastic* domains!
[14:06:04] <Tempt> You can't get classier than purplecow.org
[14:06:20] <edwardocallaghan> lol
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[14:06:42] <edwardocallaghan> I did ask Tempt but I would like to get online ASAP
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[14:06:57] <edwardocallaghan> I can't seem to gain root ?
[14:07:04] <edwardocallaghan> su root
[14:07:13] <edwardocallaghan> that should work?
[14:07:20] <purserj> with a password yes
[14:07:22] <boyd> assuming you know the password :)
[14:08:08] <edwardocallaghan> lol
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[14:10:03] <Tempt> Oh, man this pile of cover songs is hilarious. A cover of Maggie's Farm. Oh, the laughs.
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[14:10:43] <edwardocallaghan> I think he forgot to make me a memeber of the wheel group ?
[14:10:51] <quasi> why type su root when su - will do?
[14:10:52] <edwardocallaghan> Would that be right boyd ?
[14:10:54] <boyd> I dont
[14:11:07] <edwardocallaghan> I tried that as well; su -
[14:11:08] <boyd> the wheel group is a BSD thing
[14:11:15] <boyd> Not SVR4
[14:11:16] <edwardocallaghan> Oh
[14:11:34] <edwardocallaghan> I should have the right password
[14:11:35] <Tempt> Oh, I've seen Solaris boxes with a wheel group
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[14:11:44] <boyd> The closest thing on Solaris is making root a role, but then you get "roles can only be assumed by authorized users"
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[14:13:56] <edwardocallaghan> I wonder whats wrong ?
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[14:14:31] <Berny> hmm, nobody any hints on the nwam stuff?
[14:14:34] <Tempt> hmm. Catch you all a little later.
[14:14:55] <Berny> bye Tempt
[14:15:22] <edwardocallaghan> alright, laters
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[14:16:41] <edwardocallaghan> So I guess I am stuck untill dclarke has awaken?
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[14:16:49] <CSFrost> Berny, so far I just use it on wifi.. only found a few problems with it I dislike :-)
[14:17:02] <Berny> frosty wifi is what i wanna do :-)
[14:17:06] <Berny> at home at least
[14:17:24] <Berny> didn't catch an ip from wlan ap via dhcp though
[14:17:30] <edwardocallaghan> Any news on Xorg7.3 integration when its around ?
[14:17:34] <Berny> no wep/wpa or other stuff enabled so far
[14:17:54] <boyd> edwardocallaghan: alanc is the one who would definitely knowe
[14:17:57] <boyd> know, too
[14:18:22] <CSFrost> Berny, hrm.. and you followed the directions per the man page?
[14:18:25] <edwardocallaghan> boyd:I try to remember all these nicks :p
[14:18:43] <boyd> I've only been in here about 2 years. You get there :)
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[14:18:52] <edwardocallaghan> I have a maths brain not a names brain :p
[14:18:57] <CSFrost> though alanc won't be up for another 2 hours atleast I imagine..
[14:19:04] <Berny> man nwam gives no manual entry for nwam
[14:19:13] <Berny> but i followed the info on the website
[14:19:16] <CSFrost> 6am pacific time.
[14:19:30] <edwardocallaghan> Oh..
[14:19:33] <CSFrost> yea, the only man page is on opensolaris.org I believe
[14:19:55] <CSFrost> latest version of ce berny?
[14:20:08] <Berny> yeah fresh 68 on the box
[14:20:13] <edwardocallaghan> Are all the libs in Xorg7.2 done now ? or are there still missing parts ?
[14:20:52] <Berny> i tried it last night... found both nics... logged a msg to syslog, the it couldn't determine the login user and did nothing else
[14:21:01] <edwardocallaghan> boyd:Know anyone who is letting go of any SPARC gear what so ever ?
[14:21:04] <Berny> so i guess it tried something though
[14:22:13] <boyd> edwardocallaghan: Not off the top of my head...
[14:22:29] <boyd> I worked on some gear last week that would be better off let go :)
[14:23:01] <edwardocallaghan> Hmmm..
[14:23:11] <edwardocallaghan> Even a Ultra 10 would do me
[14:23:32] <boyd> That's what they were
[14:23:45] <edwardocallaghan> boyd:I plan to do a SCSA you see
[14:23:51] <edwardocallaghan> Oh
[14:23:58] <edwardocallaghan> Before I forget
[14:24:04] <Tempt> back again.
[14:24:07] <boyd> Ah.. U10 would be fine for that
[14:24:12] <boyd> Tempt: That was quick
[14:24:25] <edwardocallaghan> About some exam practice hand outs.. know anyone who has some good ones ;)?
[14:24:28] <Tempt> Small dragons.
[14:24:33] <CSFrost> Berny, did things work using manual setup?
[14:24:34] <Tempt> Only needed a small amount of slaying.
[14:24:57] <Tempt> boyd: Was this shabby gear in Perth?
[14:25:13] <boyd> Yes, yes it was.
[14:25:22] <boyd> But it was shipped from Sydney
[14:25:27] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: Why not enroll in one of Boyd's classes? I assure you they're good fun.
[14:25:50] <boyd> Tempt: You had someone paying the bill
[14:25:52] <edwardocallaghan> Tempt:I would, money is the only problem for me
[14:25:57] <Berny> frosty yeah works fine, manually and with the old wificonfig/inetmenu combo
[14:26:34] <Tempt> Wow, a ska cover of Come On Eileen
[14:26:43] <boyd> Sounds cool
[14:26:58] <boyd> Come to think of it, it wouldn't need that much modification
[14:27:01] <CSFrost> Berny, odd, I used the setup notes found in http://opensolaris.org/os/project/nwam/phase0/nwamd_1m/;jsessionid=8417444896F456D42F80A15BE1AB832A
[14:27:10] <elektronkind> I've heard a few punk covers of come on eileen
[14:27:17] <CSFrost> stupid java sessionid's.. always making things longer then needed
[14:28:18] <CSFrost> haven't had any trouble setting things up... using WPA2, was the ip it was trying to grab available?
[14:28:23] <Berny> thats what is read and used
[14:28:35] <Berny> yeah sure
[14:28:44] <edwardocallaghan> boyd:Any ideas on practice exam papers please ?
[14:29:11] <CSFrost> berny, hrm, I'd post on nwam-discuss, perhaps they know more of it :-)
[14:29:12] <boyd> The only ones I've seen are at sun..
[14:29:46] <Berny> yeah once i'm in the new appartment i#ll do that
[14:30:56] <edwardocallaghan> boyd:I only have the one book from Amazon
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[14:32:31] <edwardocallaghan> http://www.amazon.com/Certified-Administrator-Solaris-310-200-310-202/dp/0072229594/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-1057201-0220063?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184675484&sr=8-1
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[14:33:29] <boyd> edwardocallaghan: Check your pm
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[14:35:30] <edwardocallaghan> boyd: How do I send pong ?
[14:35:42] <_mary_kate_> /aux0              (ift               ):107512312 blocks       -1 files
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[14:35:53] <boyd> I could have sworn we had this conversaion
[14:36:08] <boyd>  /msg otherperson yourmessag
[14:36:19] <boyd> or just type in the window that should have popped up
[14:36:28] <boyd> You need to be registered with nickserv
[14:36:44] <Tempt> Or you can shout PONG!! at your computer really loudly.
[14:37:01] <boyd> Please record and post on YouTube
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[14:39:15] <Pietro_S> Tempt: you have to shout to ethernet cable which is connected to internet ;-) otherwise it doesn't work :-)
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[14:40:36] * purserj is much more advanced, uses steam driven internets
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[14:41:01] * richlowe echoes alanc's complaints about JDS putting the shutdown menu entry in the same spot logout was.
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[14:41:43] <CSFrost> lol richlowe :-P I do that too now
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[14:42:34] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[14:42:38] <edwardocallaghan> Oh dear
[14:43:59] <kaiwai> Pietro_S: or rub the cable to move the electrons along
[14:45:01] <edwardocallaghan> I like the new way of bashing your head on the kb untill the computer says "alright i'll send your stupid msg.."
[14:45:53] <kaiwai> or make sure that there is enough gravity on the cable to ensure that that electrons can drop down a decline or otherwise they'll pool all in one location
[14:46:13] <edwardocallaghan> Theres not many books on solaris on amazon are there.
[14:46:24] <elektronkind> tinyurl http://some.very.long/urls-really-annoy-non-GUI-irc-users-like-me
[14:46:25] <cmn_err> http://tinyurl.com/2wk5cj
[14:46:26] <trochej> Yeeessss. I love those .exe java apps :)
[14:46:30] <elektronkind> awesome
[14:46:49] <kaiwai> trochej: why do companies do that?
[14:46:54] <CSFrost> edwardocallaghan, no they just have a very advanced search engine that gives you everything entirely not related.
[14:47:11] <kaiwai> quite frankly, they deserve to be anal raped with an ice hockey stick
[14:47:18] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[14:47:18] <trochej> kaiwai: I dont know
[14:47:21] <purserj> kaiwai: so Windows users don't get confused
[14:47:42] <edwardocallaghan> Scot Mac likes hockey i hear
[14:47:43] <boyd> edwardocallaghan: IMHO, do *not* get this: http://www.amazon.com/Solaris-10-Complete-Reference/dp/0072229985
[14:47:44] <cmn_err> http://tinyurl.com/2kevpu
[14:47:50] <kaiwai> shouldn't make a difference it the Jar is defaulted to open with Java - if it is with Java, then the application should appear just asn an icon
[14:47:57] <boyd> That boot exists purely so that the amazon reviews can amuse
[14:48:05] <kaiwai> something like "double click me you tosser"
[14:48:20] <Tempt> Oh, I downloaded a copy of that book to see what is was like.
[14:48:24] <Tempt> The best review would be "WRONG".
[14:48:29] <CSFrost> boyd? why not? it was the perfect height for that chair I had with the broken leg
[14:48:32] <Tempt> It's just wrong. Literally. Full of mistakes.
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[14:49:02] <kaiwai> meh, I still have my old UNIX book - it does the job ok'ish
[14:49:03] <boyd> Not to mention that it doesn't mention DTrace or SMF. "Complete" huh?
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[14:49:21] <edwardocallaghan> boyd:Narr I saw the reviews
[14:49:28] <richlowe> boyd: hah.
[14:49:32] <kaiwai> boyd: but isn't that the case for most books - leaving out key information
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[14:49:45] <Tempt> boyd: Try the section on LDAP!
[14:49:57] <CSFrost> kaiwai, no your thinking of movies
[14:50:13] <boyd> If it was called "Solaris 10, a couple of approximately salient points" I would have no argument with it
[14:50:57] <kaiwai> CSFrost: Anything that claims to be a 'complete guide' - be skeptical of
[14:51:06] <_mary_kate_> hmm, based on a 10 minute sample, this box will run out of disk space in 17 days.  that's no good.
[14:51:11] <kaiwai> just like one should be skeptical of those who stand on 'family values'
[14:51:42] <CSFrost> no, I have "The complete guide to skinning a cat" and it's quite complete.. even excess in some parts.
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[14:52:06] <Tempt> _mary_kate_: Based on a five minute sample, my 2Tb of storage is going to run out tomorrow. Oh, hang on, the I/O isn't sustained ...
[14:52:24] <CSFrost> _mary_kate_ plenty of time for an order :-)
[14:52:25] <Tempt> CSFrost: It is definately true that there's more than one way to skin a cat.
[14:52:47] <boyd> Tempt:  :)
[14:53:34] <CSFrost> 412 ways according to the book
[14:54:13] <_mary_kate_> CSFrost: hahahah, time from quote for installation for this was like 3 months
[14:55:51] <kaiwai> CSFrost: meh, depends; sometimes its inaccurate - like the joy of marriage
[14:56:37] <Cyrille> is that a short story?
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[14:58:59] <CSFrost> Cyrille, I don't know.. I haven't actually found it yet
[14:59:10] <CSFrost> It wasn't in the last one I know..
[14:59:26] <kaiwai> yeap, one of the shortest
[14:59:34] <_mary_kate_> Tempt: but i used a 60-second sample!
[14:59:38] <kaiwai> right next to 'enjoying a stable Windows'
[14:59:40] <_mary_kate_> surely that's accurate enough
[15:01:19] <edwardocallaghan> ok see you guys
[15:02:02] <Tempt> later.
[15:05:17] <leal_> what SUNW stands for?
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[15:05:55] <Cyrille> Stanford University NetWork
[15:06:01] <trygvis> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUNW
[15:06:24] <edwardocallaghan> Some people say Workstation
[15:06:37] <edwardocallaghan> bye
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[15:07:40] <Tempt> I think McNealy said workstation.
[15:07:55] <Tempt> Or perhaps his "W in SUNW" is a bit like the "dot in dot-com"
[15:08:17] <kszwed> it stood for workstation and the share code stuck as SUNW at wall street.
[15:09:22] <Berny> d'oh
[15:09:27] <boyd> IIRC some say it now stands for "worldwide" after originally being "wrokstation"
[15:09:29] <Berny> nwam working
[15:09:43] <sickness> wreck station
[15:09:47] <Berny> .oO(chmod 755 scripts after downloading them)
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[15:10:51] <Tempt> wrokstation.
[15:11:01] <sickness> wrongstation
[15:11:08] <Tempt> I'm just wroking 'ard all day long.
[15:11:22] <sickness> "All work and no play, makes Tempt a dull boy"
[15:11:34] <boyd> WROK in Cincinnati
[15:11:57] <Berny> why do i have to think of wok and chinese food now?
[15:12:06] <sickness> wokstation
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[15:14:00] <Tempt> wokstation
[15:14:05] *** calumb has joined #opensolaris
[15:14:08] <Tempt> Heat your wok on your PC's intel CPU
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[15:23:29] <richlowe> woohoo, they broke b.o.o again
[15:23:38] <_mary_kate_> did it ever count as 'working'?
[15:24:41] <richlowe> it did more than say "Your search returned 41 results" and then tell me underneith that that there were no results found for my search.
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[15:44:48] <aghaster> I have a *little* problem. When choosing the option "Solaris Express Developer Edition" in the opensolaris b68 installer, it tells me I need 768mb of memory, but this box only has 512mb
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[15:45:27] <aghaster> the installer says I could upgrade ram or choose "Solaris Express" instead. But if I do that, is there a way to install the rest that the Developer Edition has more?
[15:45:32] <aghaster> I want the developer tools
[15:46:11] <Berny> yeah there's an install script for studio and stuff on the dvd
[15:46:14] <trochej> aghaster: After installing SXCE mount your CDrom
[15:46:32] <trochej> aghaster: Go to /media/SOL_SOMETHING/DeveloperTools/
[15:46:40] <trochej> fire up main.sh
[15:46:51] <trochej> about half and hour later you have all installed
[15:46:56] <aghaster> thanks :)
[15:47:27] <trochej> s/and/an/
[15:47:29] <trochej> Np
[15:53:01] <elektronkind> stock sunw
[15:53:05] <elektronkind> oops
[15:53:46] <elektronkind> quote sunw
[15:53:47] <cmn_err> SUNW last 7/17/2007 9:38am: 5.32 -0.02 [-0.37%] (5.35 - 5.32) [Open 5.34] Vol 3,573,555
[15:54:22] <oxygene> quote lnxi
[15:54:24] <oxygene> ;)
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[15:58:51] <kszwed> Tempt, yo
[16:00:45] <richlowe> SXDE is SXCE with a crippled installer and studio, so yeah, install CE, then studio
[16:00:54] <richlowe> that way, you don't even have to use the crippled installer :)
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[16:03:46] <kaiwai> meh, the gui installer is a POS anyway - damn thing hanging and slower than me running up a hill
[16:04:50] <kaiwai> plus being the worlds most pointless use of Java ever thought of
[16:05:42] <elektronkind> I can see Java being useful for something like an installer... from a program management POV
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[16:06:28] <elektronkind> I'm no java fan... but I'm also not a C everywhere person either. Installers could be written in Tk for all I care
[16:07:03] <CSFrost> Everything should be written in Squeak
[16:07:05] <kaiwai> well, its just annoying that it is slow, buggy (known issue by sun, put on the back burner a while back) and bloated
[16:07:34] <trygvis> I doubt that that is related to being written in java
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[16:08:46] <kaiwai> trygvis: given that I've yet to see a java application that isn't buggy, hangs, slow, bloated or some other adjective, its guitly till proven innocent
[16:09:11] <trygvis> dork
[16:09:39] <elektronkind> the people making the java app might shoulder a little blame...
[16:10:16] <elektronkind> java might be magic fairy pixie dust, but that doesn't cure poor structure and app archetecture
[16:10:35] <kaiwai> trygvis: touch a raw nerve? you the person who punished the world that with the cram that is SMC?
[16:10:42] <kaiwai> *crap
[16:11:03] <trygvis> no, you are just being to incredibly silly
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[16:11:22] <kaiwai> trygvis: tell me one good java application that doesn't royally suck in all areas
[16:11:35] <CSFrost> I'd like to vote to have the word silly in your sentence changed, sir.
[16:12:13] <trygvis> kaiwai: yeah, whatever
[16:12:50] <kaiwai> christ, who uses 'what ever'
[16:13:03] <kaiwai> just sitting here waiting fot the 'snap snap' with the head turn to make it complete
[16:13:35] <CSFrost> What kind of person sits in irc channels intentionally flame-baiting?
[16:13:37] * coffman hands kaiwai a vista dvd
[16:13:44] <coffman> kaiwai: go have fun kid
[16:14:00] <kaiwai> why? I'm happy with Solaris
[16:14:10] <kaiwai> happy being a relative word mind you
[16:14:20] <CSFrost> Cause Solaris isn't happen with you right now..
[16:14:36] <kaiwai> well, I'm running it right now quite nicely
[16:14:42] <kaiwai> nothing wrong
[16:15:06] <CSFrost> it's sending out SOS messages to Sun headquarters.
[16:16:37] <curlyman> kaiwai: what's your alternative to java then?
[16:16:53] <LeftWing> Forth.
[16:17:18] <kaiwai> curlyman: stop using java left, right and centre when it doesn't need to be
[16:17:31] <LeftWing> s/using/bashing/
[16:19:32] <curlyman> kaiwai: you're really close to having a valid arguement...
[16:19:55] <kaiwai> thats quite a scary proposition
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[16:21:12] <elektronkind> everyone is a little bit of curmudgeon. it's to be expected in small doses :)
[16:22:03] <elektronkind> so, any cyrus/sieve admins around?
[16:24:17] * curlyman thinks that Java is magic pixie dust.
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[16:26:38] <Gman> hey all
[16:26:41] <kaiwai> hi
[16:26:45] <LeftWing> Hi Glynn.
[16:26:50] <timsf> Hi Gman - how's guadec ?
[16:27:03] <Gman> been pretty good so far
[16:27:14] <Gman> tonight is the first conf party
[16:27:18] <Gman> in an australian bar
[16:27:27] <Gman> suspect it'll go downhill from there :)
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[16:27:51] <timsf> Hah quite possibly
[16:27:56] <kszwed> hope its not a fosters parade :)
[16:28:03] <Cyrille> downhill in australian bar is uphill in the northern hemisphere, isn't it? ;-)
[16:28:06] <Cyrille> ^in^in an
[16:28:16] <kszwed> Cyrille, heh
[16:28:18] <Gman> kszwed, hawhaw
[16:28:22] <Gman> australian for beer
[16:28:33] <sickness> oh
[16:28:35] <quasi> aussie bar, so only light beer?
[16:28:48] <timsf> Coopers pale ale isn't light
[16:28:59] <timsf>  (they do a nice stout too... )
[16:29:15] <Berny> is that koala blood? :-)
[16:29:20] <Gman> been there a couple of times this week
[16:29:25] <Gman> didn't have any coopers unfortunatley
[16:29:36] <Gman> now that i think of it, didn't have many aussie beers at all
[16:29:45] <Gman> it sold kangaroo meat that jdub dissed
[16:29:50] <timsf> And it's an aussie bar how?
[16:29:57] * timsf sighs
[16:30:16] <Gman> it's called 'walkabout'
[16:30:20] <Berny> probably a tourist place ;-)
[16:30:37] <Gman> which given the cattle market nature of the place, isn't a bad thing
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[16:31:39] <kszwed> lucky it wasn't a new zealander joint or you'd be stuck with sheep
[16:33:22] <_mary_kate_> Disk /dev/sdq: 499.9 GB, 499989348352 bytes
[16:33:29] <_mary_kate_> what do you think they do when they run out of letters?
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[16:34:53] <ofu> nge does not support jumbo frames?
[16:35:11] <sickness> nge sux anyway, I suspect... :/
[16:36:46] <richlowe> _mary_kate_: double them, I think.
[16:36:49] <richlowe> sdaa sdab sdac
[16:36:53] <_mary_kate_> haha.
[16:37:26] <kszwed> /dev/sdeadbeef
[16:38:01] <nachox> i bet that will break a lot of utilities
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[16:43:30] * curlyman is really craving beer now, thanks.
[16:44:26] <morteng> please, I have the express edition, and would like the local PATH set to  PATH=$PATH:/opt/sfw/bin; export  PATH. but where?
[16:44:43] <nachox> morteng: what shell do you use?
[16:44:53] <morteng> bash
[16:45:15] <Berny> how did one find out again which privileges a process need to work?
[16:45:24] <morteng> bash-3.00$
[16:45:30] <Berny> vi .bashrc
[16:45:38] <Berny> or vi .bash_profile
[16:45:50] <nachox> morteng: add "export PATH=$PATH:/opt/sfw/bin" to ~/.bash_profile
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[16:46:25] <nachox> Berny: ppriv
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[16:46:41] <quasi> Berny: ppriv -eD <proggy>
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[16:47:54] <Berny> cheers that was the one... one should mention that in pfexec's man page ;-)
[16:48:09] <morteng> .bashrc ist certainly the right one on debian, but here in my Home I have only .bash_history  .bashrc  or  .bash_profile  is  nonexistent.
[16:48:35] <nachox> morteng: create the file if its not there
[16:49:46] <morteng> oh Intersting,  that could help, I do not want to mess up my solarisexpress.  one moment, please
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[16:51:57] <morteng> I will have to log out and log in and then we can see
[16:51:57] <morteng> cat  .bashrc
[16:51:57] <morteng> PATH=$PATH:/opt/sfw/bin; export  PATH
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[16:54:50] <nachox> if you have ucb in your PATH and you actually need it, put it at the end of the PATH just in case
[16:57:42] <morteng> nachox  it works  vi  .bashrc  did it, Thanx ,  I dunno what ucb is    cat  .bashrc  PATH=$PATH:/opt/sfw/bin; export  PATH  and emacs is found.
[16:58:41] <trochej> morteng: /usr/ucb/bin/
[16:59:41] <richlowe> you want as little to do with /usr/ucb/bin as possible.
[16:59:46] <richlowe> pretty much the only useful thing in there is install(1B)
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[17:00:06] <nachox> and cc ;)
[17:00:17] <richlowe> only because I'm busy.
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[17:00:36] <richlowe> I still intend to get back to ARC'ing the last 3rd of that stuff, and removing all 3 of the UCB cc, lint and ld.
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[17:01:28] * movement claps at richlowe
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[17:02:25] <morteng> Yes,  i remember the older solaris 9 and 10 before it went open,  i have learned to only append at the end,  however i have some information,  a swap partition of only 500 MB slows down Thunderbird,  I had to reinstall my express which is similar to open solaris, with 2GB swap,  thunderbirds run rock stable and fast.
[17:02:28] <nachox> ohh, come on, it's really funny to see the cc errors when you add /opt/SUNWPro/bin after ucb :)
[17:02:54] <nachox> thunderbird needs 2gb of swap?
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[17:07:36] <nachox> /usr/ucb/cc:  language optional software package not installed :)
[17:08:28] <aghaster> hum... how much swap is enough?
[17:08:39] <aghaster> I've just made a 512mb swap, will it run fine?
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[17:08:56] <nachox> aghaster: how much ram do you have?
[17:09:05] <aghaster> 512
[17:09:09] <nachox> hey Gman :)
[17:09:28] <aghaster> I've made a 512mb swap and I also have 512mb of ram
[17:09:35] <Gman> hi nachox
[17:09:52] <nachox> it's ok i guess, as a general rule i use at least as much swap as there is ram in the system
[17:10:13] <aghaster> good
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[17:11:12] <nachox> you could add swap files in the future if you need more swap space but you cannot use them as a dump device iirc
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[17:11:36] <morteng> 500 MB was the minimum spec,  after connecting to some IMAP mail servers which has 10 MB attachements the HDD audibly startet to cry and thunderbird crashed repeatedly.  I could see in the performance monitor that my RAM was being eaten up, and the swap space  had to hide for  Thunderbird.
[17:12:05] <timeless> hrm
[17:12:18] <timeless> i think there might be enough symbols in thunderbird for a stack trace
[17:12:31] <timeless> if not, could you possibly build thunderbird --enable-debugger-info-modules?
[17:12:38] <timeless> i'll gladly help you track down your crash
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[17:13:49] <Gman> hey alanc, stevel
[17:14:00] <stevel> morning glynn
[17:15:12] <morteng> timeless ,  interesting,  I went to a #thunderbord channel, but finally wiped it off, so now i have no problem.   please see this  http://pastebin.ca/623365
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[17:17:13] <timeless> morteng: um...
[17:17:18] <timeless> i need stack traces
[17:17:24] <timeless> coreadm i suppose
[17:17:46] <timeless> man 1M coreadm
[17:17:57] <timeless> setup a place to get cores delivered
[17:18:06] <timeless> or you can run thunderbird, attach w/ mdb and then crash
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[17:22:10] <morteng> interesting,  i have thunderbird correct set up hear and that works fine,  After I deleted some huge files.  I love my solaris and woun't reboot for some days.
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[17:40:10] <elektronkind> !seen alanc
[17:40:18] <elektronkind> seen alanc
[17:40:28] <elektronkind> hmm, I must not have that turned on
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[17:40:47] <Drone> alanc (alanc!n=alanc at 192 dot 18.43.225) was last seen in #opensolaris on Tue 17 Jul 2007 02:59 GMT, saying 'I wasn't expecting a complete copy of perl to come down with it'.
[17:41:00] <elektronkind> wow, lag
[17:41:09] * alanc is on a very flaky connection right now
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[18:42:01] <Pietro_S> is there any script to get all SFE dependency? I want to install inkspace from there ...
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[19:09:25] <_mary_kate_> Your "cron" job produced the following output: <empty line>
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[19:11:14] <rawn027> i am trying to get this ultra 60 to be used via the serial console port
[19:11:22] <rawn027> its not work, any ideas
[19:11:33] <rawn027> i dont have a monitor at my desk yet and I need to work on this server
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[19:18:50] <rawn027> got it, eeprom console-ttya
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[19:45:01] <Pietro_S> it's ridicilouse that someone post article how to develop java mobile things on Solaris using *BrandZ*!
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[19:45:40] <_mary_kate_> anyone know how to get into the MegaRAID BIOS of a V40z over the SP serial?
[19:45:47] <_mary_kate_> (please don't say rtfm, i tried everything it suggested :)
[19:46:10] <quasi> _mary_kate_: by booting the box?
[19:46:15] <_mary_kate_> quasi: ...
[19:46:28] <_mary_kate_> quasi: it says to press Ctrl-M.  i tried every combination, it ignores me
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[19:47:21] <quasi> _mary_kate_: hmmm, I seem to recall issues with it as well later on after getting into the bios
[19:47:43] <quasi> something about pressing ctrl-something and anything else to quit
[19:48:01] <quasi> never having had any luck getting past that bit
[19:48:16] <quasi> that's when I started using raidctl ;)
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[19:57:01] <aghaster> where is the xorg.conf file located?
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[19:58:41] <quasi> could be /etc/X11 iirc
[19:58:44] <tomww> aghaster: if there is one, then look into /etc/X11
[19:59:03] <tomww> but: the X11 does not necessarily need one, most times it configures per auto
[19:59:19] <tomww> so if X11 runs well, don't create one
[19:59:36] <aghaster> hum... I have changed my configuration throught the nvidia config tool
[19:59:46] <aghaster> and it is supposed to have saved the changes to xorg.conf
[19:59:55] <aghaster> but there is no xorg.conf in /etc/X11/
[19:59:56] <tomww> Pietro_S: I use BrandZ for pgadmin3
[20:00:02] <aghaster> so I'm lost. where is it?
[20:00:03] <tomww> aghaster: does your X11 run?
[20:00:16] <tomww> what do you want to do with the xorg.conf?
[20:00:52] <aghaster> change keyboard layout
[20:01:00] <aghaster> yeah, my X11 runs fine
[20:01:25] <Pietro_S> then create it there and modify
[20:01:34] <tomww> to change keyboard layout on X86, you should set your keyboard in: /boot/solaris/bootenv.rc
[20:02:09] <quasi> aghaster: there could possibly be an example file in /etc/X11/.xorg.conf
[20:02:18] <aghaster> ok
[20:02:37] <tomww> aghaster: eeprom | grep kbd   (as root)
[20:02:55] <Pietro_S> tomww: I guess that he want to make nice hack to use scroll lock as indicator of keyboard language which is the only reasonable reason to modify xorg.conf directly ;-)
[20:02:57] <nachox> tomww: you can use eeprom you dont need to edit  /boot/solaris/bootenv.rc iirc
[20:03:03] <tomww> to set your keyboard:  eeprom kbd-type=German  (for example)
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[20:04:29] <aghaster> on linux, I need to add a variant to my keyboard layour
[20:04:46] <aghaster> that's why I want to edit xorg.conf, because that's the way I'm used to.
[20:04:54] <leal_> if i want to test failover in sc 32, clnode evacuate new-node should do the trick?
[20:05:08] <leal_> i mean, clnode evacuate thisnode..
[20:05:26] <coffman> on solaris xorg there is no default xorg.conf
[20:05:34] <coffman> you need to generate one
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[20:11:44] <dclarke> wildly silly question : how much cache is there on the 66 MHz ROSS HyperSparc proc ?  256KB ?
[20:12:05] <dclarke> $ psrinfo -v
[20:12:07] <dclarke> Status of virtual processor 0 as of: 01/12/07 23:14:00
[20:12:09] <dclarke>   on-line since 01/09/07 02:47:39.
[20:12:10] <dclarke>   The sparc processor operates at 66 MHz,
[20:12:12] <dclarke>         and has a sparc floating point processor.
[20:12:50] <tomww> aghaster: you should to this in single-user:  Xorg -configure   and look in "/" for a generated xorg.conf to customize, move this one in to /etc/X11
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[20:13:32] <tomww> hi dclarke
[20:13:35] <aghaster> tomww: I found out why the nvidia tool didn't save the file, I saved it and edited it. I'll see if it works
[20:13:39] <dclarke> hey there !
[20:13:47] <dclarke> I am still using JET
[20:14:00] <dclarke> and managed to install to headless appliances now
[20:14:11] <tomww> great :-)
[20:14:35] <dclarke> seriously oddball hardware
[20:14:41] <dclarke> $ psrinfo -pv
[20:14:43] <dclarke> The physical processor has 1 virtual processor (0)
[20:14:45] <dclarke>   x86 (CentaurHauls 6A9 family 6 model 10 step 9 clock 1200 MHz)
[20:14:46] <dclarke>         VIA Esther processor 1200MHz
[20:14:48] <dclarke> runs fine
[20:15:02] <tomww> how much power cunsumes this one?
[20:15:10] <tomww> *consumes
[20:15:20] <dclarke> really low
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[20:15:25] <nachox> dclarke: how much does a nightly take there? :)
[20:15:26] <dclarke> like 15 watts
[20:15:29] <dclarke> forever
[20:15:34] <dclarke> over 16 hours
[20:15:39] <dclarke> depending on options
[20:15:40] <nachox> ouch!!
[20:15:41] <tomww> I have a 733 MHZ C3 but not under solaris ...
[20:15:48] <dclarke> I manually set number of jobs to 1
[20:16:09] <dclarke> tomww : I have it running here super solid
[20:16:46] * nachox used to crash linux appliances for fun and cant wait to try and do the same with solaris appliances
[20:16:48] <tomww> what kindo of disks connected? sata or pata?
[20:17:12] <quasi> x]
[20:17:14] <quasi> c
[20:17:27] <dclarke> IDE and USB
[20:17:29] <quasi> gah, someone moved my keyboard
[20:17:46] <dclarke> am testing zfs on USB thumbdrives
[20:17:59] <tomww> like the guys from the video?
[20:17:59] <quasi> dclarke: what exact model via board is that?
[20:18:17] <dclarke> quasi : let me go look
[20:18:31] <dclarke> dunno off hand .. I have a few of them here
[20:18:58] * tomww knows how dclarks lab looks like
[20:19:14] <nachox> i'm off, it has been a really really really long day
[20:19:15] <dclarke> its a bloody mess
[20:19:18] <quasi> the Esther bit is what has me wondering
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[20:19:52] <dclarke> hrmm .. let me fish out a flashlight
[20:20:09] <tomww> dclarke: "super solid" - this must be the Solaris OS :)
[20:20:29] <aghaster> okay, keyboard layout seems to *work*, but I have quite a problem. french letters do not appear, or appear as "?"
[20:20:39] <aghaster> what do I miss to display french characters?
[20:20:46] 
[20:20:51] <dclarke> Jetway Hybrid J7F2WE1G2E
[20:21:03] <dclarke> VIA C7 1.2GHz
[20:21:09] <quasi> dclarke: ah, jetway
[20:21:14] <quasi> dclarke: thanks
[20:21:36] <dclarke> I will be selling them in solid steel cases soon
[20:21:56] <quasi> http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=11111 prolly
[20:22:00] <dclarke> right now I am running IDE disks and USB but I have SATA to test here also
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[20:22:51] <quasi> could become popular
[20:22:55] <dclarke> that unit looks similar .. but
[20:22:59] <dclarke> that's not it
[20:23:27] <dclarke> damn close
[20:23:36] <dclarke> hrmmm .. actually .. I may have that here also
[20:23:49] <dclarke> in any case I am making an 18 gauge steel case for it
[20:23:54] <dclarke> something you can stand on
[20:24:15] <dclarke> it will cool passively but I am putting in a fan on top of the processor heatsink anyways
[20:24:29] <dclarke> it runs snv_68 fine and we have the ethernet driver working well
[20:24:43] <dclarke> I'll probably package up the drivers and release them via Blastwave
[20:24:47] <quasi> nifty
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[20:25:10] <quasi> have you played with any of their add-on boards?
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[20:25:15] <dclarke> I figure .. with that board, and a steel case, a 200GB or so SATA disk and some other gear it will be cost effective at $500 or so
[20:25:28] <dclarke> nope ..
[20:25:40] <dclarke> just been working to get a nice clean build here on this one
[20:25:46] <dclarke> with ethernet worked out of course
[20:25:58] <dclarke> the dual gigabit ethernet is very solid now
[20:26:21] <steleman> http://www.willitblend.com/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=iphone
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[20:26:51] <quasi> probably easier to just sell it without disks not worrying about the constant dropping of prices
[20:26:52] <dclarke> steleman : hello !
[20:27:03] <quasi> steleman: ooooooooooooooooooooooollllllllllllllllllldddddddddddddddd!
[20:27:04] <steleman> hiya dclarke
[20:27:07] <dclarke> quasi : I want it to be a running Solaris box
[20:27:21] <quasi> dclarke: ah, preinstalled
[20:27:24] <setui1> Hi I have problem with Berkeley DB during compilation of JDS
[20:28:10] <setui1> pkgbuild: chcecking Berkeley DB... configure error: cannot find libdb
[20:28:11] <quasi> dclarke: might be worth to do an option with 2x2.5" disks for a nice and quiet zfs boot box
[20:28:16] <dclarke> quasi : yeah .. I have ISV ststus so I can ship stuff pre-installed with Solaris
[20:28:19] <setui1> but SUNWbdb is allready installed
[20:28:35] <dclarke> quasi : I was thinking dual disks on dual controllers
[20:28:48] <dclarke> quasi : that would be of some value to some people
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[20:31:28] <setui1> any idea where can I find SUNWbdb.spec or anything like that?
[20:32:33] <dclarke> anyone out there have a 1.2 GHz proc of some sort ?
[20:32:40] <dclarke> that can run a test for me ?
[20:32:51] <CSFrost> dclarke pentium m
[20:32:52] <setui1> 1.6?
[20:32:57] <CSFrost> ULV, if it matters
[20:33:02] <dclarke> 1.6 is close .. but a tad faster
[20:33:17] <setui1> but it's C2D
[20:33:22] <dclarke> sure .. okay .. what OS do you have on it ?
[20:33:31] <setui1> Solaris Express
[20:33:34] <setui1> :-)
[20:33:37] <CSFrost> (p1510d = 1.2 , non core duo here :-P)
[20:33:37] <tomww> setui1: probably you should extend requirements: SFWbdb
[20:33:38] <dclarke> peeerrrfect
[20:33:39] <setui1> ok
[20:33:42] <quasi> dclarke: I'm not sure how much of a difference the dual controllers do on a bamboo board
[20:34:06] <setui1> ok good idea
[20:34:07] <setui1> but
[20:34:08] <setui1> SUNWbdb
[20:34:09] <setui1> is installed
[20:34:16] <setui1> i think that i need .spec file
[20:34:17] * dclarke what is bamboo ?
[20:34:39] <quasi> dclarke: well, not highest quality
[20:34:42] <setui1> but i'll try it
[20:34:47] <dclarke> CSFrost :  do you have pkg-get installed on that ?
[20:35:00] <CSFrost> it's either a type of grass, or an actress...
[20:35:11] <CSFrost> dclarke, I don't believe so, lemme see
[20:35:14] <dclarke> or a bar on the Toronto west end
[20:35:36] <CSFrost> nope, no pkg-get
[20:35:49] <CSFrost> what would the task entail?
[20:35:52] <tomww> setui1: im wondering why you dont have a SFEdbd.spec in your svn checkout
[20:36:09] <dclarke> CSFrost :  running this : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/stuff/VIA_Radiance.log
[20:36:36] <dclarke> CSFrost :  it could run for hours
[20:36:58] <CSFrost> that probably wouldn't be too good on my email client
[20:37:03] <setui1> wait a minute
[20:37:29] <dclarke> CSFrost :  it will slay ther machine .. ruthlessly
[20:37:56] <dclarke> if I could just get my hands on a 3.0 GHz AMD Opteron
[20:37:59] <CSFrost> being that I use the box quite frequently, I might not be the best one to do that test :-)
[20:38:21] <dclarke> no problem
[20:38:32] <setui1> tomww: SFE?
[20:38:52] <dclarke> I was looking for an apples and oranges type of test where the machines have the same clock speed .. not much else
[20:38:56] <setui1> i just svn jds/spec-files
[20:38:58] <CSFrost> I think someone in the AU has the same laptop, it might be Tempt, I am not sure..
[20:39:25] <e^ipi> dclarke: benchmarks measure differences
[20:39:25] <dclarke> ooh amarok 1.4.6 is up for testing
[20:39:38] <dclarke> e^ipi : and start arguments
[20:40:00] <dclarke> but I have the fastest two runs thus far : http://mark.technolope.org/pages/rad_bench.html
[20:40:18] <e^ipi> which means nothing, because i'm sure bluegene can do it faster
[20:40:33] <dclarke> clusters don't count
[20:40:43] <dclarke> its a single proc test
[20:41:03] <e^ipi> you use a benchmark to see if you can measure the difference between two things
[20:41:10] <e^ipi> eg, amd/intel, or solaris/linux, etc
[20:41:19] <e^ipi> if you change all the factors, you're measuring nothing at all
[20:41:20] <dclarke> in parallel mode I posted a time of 534.5 secs on an 8-way V40z
[20:41:24] <e^ipi> your number is entirely meaningless
[20:41:47] <dclarke> well .. same result faster = a good thing
[20:41:48] <e^ipi> you could just as well generate a random number and have it give you as much information
[20:41:57] <dclarke> baloney
[20:42:04] <coffman> dclarke: is that for the cases you had done efika?
[20:42:07] <dclarke> same results .. repeatedly
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[20:42:18] <dclarke> coffman : say again ?
[20:42:47] <e^ipi> on the same machine... try it with suncc & gnucc .... then on the same machine install linux, try it & compare with the gnucc version
[20:42:48] <dclarke> please elaborate .. you lost me
[20:43:09] <e^ipi> /then/ you can actually say you're giving meaningful information
[20:43:10] <dclarke> e^ipi : that would be a waste of my time
[20:43:19] <coffman> dclarke: the epia boards. are you doing them for the cases you build for the efika boards?
[20:43:41] <dclarke> coffman : I am doing a redesign .. improvements and then yes .. shipping
[20:44:03] <coffman> ic
[20:44:08] <dclarke> coffman : but I will ship with Solaris 10 Update 4 pre-installed
[20:44:12] <e^ipi> no, posting a "benchmark" that doesn't let you compare anything is a waste of your time
[20:44:33] <dclarke> e^ipi : thanks .. but I'll do it anyways
[20:44:38] <coffman> dclarke: how much space for disks?
[20:44:39] <Samy> e^ipi, uhm, no?
[20:44:54] <dclarke> coffman :  romm for two internal
[20:45:07] <dclarke> coffman :  room for two internal sata or ATA or IDE
[20:45:11] <e^ipi> Samy: elaborate
[20:45:13] <Samy> e^ipi, benchmarks allow you to model/understand behavior. They're not just for comparisons.
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[20:45:59] <coffman> dclarke: 3,5 ?
[20:46:56] <Samy> e^ipi, simple example, I see that the more CPUs I add to an AMD64 ccNUMA system...the worse my database performs.
[20:46:59] <dclarke> coffman : sorry .. I don't understand that .  What do you mean ?
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[20:47:08] <sparvu> evening
[20:47:11] <e^ipi> Samy: right, but you're still measuring a delta
[20:47:20] <e^ipi> the one thing you change is adding more CPU's
[20:47:33] <Samy> e^ipi, no. Let's take on system.
[20:47:50] <Samy> e^ipi, I bind to every processor, see cost of gettimeofday. I know my DB is dependent on gettimeofday rather heavily.
[20:47:55] <e^ipi> you're not benchmarking once, and then taking a completely different system and benchmarking again, and choosing one of the differences and saying "this is why it's better"
[20:48:06] <Samy> oh
[20:48:12] <Samy> Is that what he's doing?
[20:48:17] <dclarke> e^ipi : that is *not* what I am doing
[20:48:22] <CSFrost> woot, new spufs man pages :-)
[20:49:03] <coffman> dclarke: disk size, standard 3,5" ?
[20:49:34] <dclarke> coffman : oh .. I am going with small laptop size
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[20:49:55] <dclarke> coffman : let me get you the Seagate part number
[20:50:07] <CSFrost> actually standard laptop size
[20:50:13] <CSFrost> small laptop is 1.8"
[20:50:22] <CSFrost> standard being 2.5" :-)
[20:50:22] <Samy> dclarke, so.
[20:50:29] <Samy> dclarke, what are you measuring?
[20:50:40] <Samy> dclarke, same operating system on 2 different processors?
[20:50:43] <dclarke> SeaGate Momentus ST980815A
[20:50:54] <Samy> ic
[20:50:57] <CSFrost> Samy, that's what he was asking for. yes.
[20:51:27] <dclarke> Samy : same OS and same application binary on different processors
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[20:51:43] <e^ipi> so you're benching out processors then
[20:51:44] <dclarke> there are many other variables clearly
[20:51:45] <Samy> dclarke, On same hard-disk? or different?
[20:52:07] <dclarke> I have used USB thum drives, SATA disks, ATA and IDE and Ultra320 SCSI
[20:52:13] <dclarke> its not IO intensive at all
[20:52:17] <CSFrost> it's different, but cpu intensive, I doubt disk speeds would matter too much
[20:52:20] <dclarke> its numerical intense
[20:52:28] <Samy> e^ipi, it's more of drivers and OS :-)
[20:52:32] <Samy> dclarke, ic ic
[20:52:33] <dclarke> and I can tell you a T2000 just sucks at this
[20:52:44] <Samy> dclarke, have results for that?
[20:52:47] <dclarke> well .. I generally unload as many modules as I can
[20:52:50] <Samy> For the T2000.
[20:52:57] <dclarke> yes .. somewhere
[20:53:00] <dclarke> it was .. not good
[20:53:06] <dclarke> really really not good
[20:53:11] <Samy> I've gotten T2000 scaling pretty well for compute + I/O applications.
[20:53:11] <e^ipi> isn't it a floating point test?
[20:53:18] <dclarke> exactly
[20:53:21] <Samy> Oh
[20:53:24] <dclarke> its floating point intensive
[20:53:26] <Samy> Yeah, mine was integer.
[20:53:29] <e^ipi> T1's got one shitty FPU for the whole thing
[20:53:35] <dclarke> and that is a key issue
[20:53:36] <Samy> and I was able to make it scale through block memory/compute.
[20:53:45] <Samy> Floating point is over-rated anyways.
[20:53:48] <Samy> ;-]
[20:54:03] <dclarke> I was working on an integer algorithm for cyclic block crypto also .. but got tired of writing it
[20:54:33] <dclarke> samy : I really wanted to do simply integer division with the T2000 by using registers across cores
[20:54:57] <dclarke> it would have been a good idea but I can not think of an efficient way to shift bits from one register in one core to a register in another core
[20:55:20] <dclarke> that would require a very complex instruction to get all 8 cores to rotate one bit left for instance
[20:55:28] <Samy> dclarke, that's cool. I found you really have to overlap memory and ALU (by doing block memory, then smaller block ALU)
[20:55:30] <Samy> dclarke, yes.
[20:55:32] <dclarke> I am better off to use all the registers in one core
[20:55:53] <Samy> dclarke, do you have gmail?
[20:55:56] <dclarke> Samy : I guess you are an assembly programmer also :-)
[20:56:03] <Samy> or a Google account.
[20:56:06] <dclarke> gmail ?  yes
[20:56:18] <Samy> What is it? Could show you some results.
[20:56:36] <dclarke> Samy : only ugly results and thus .. no .. nothing worth looking at
[20:56:50] <dclarke> also .. I have to get on the phone at 15:00 HRS here
[20:56:53] <Samy> What is it? Could show you some results.
[20:56:55] <dclarke> and I need coffee before that
[20:57:07] <dclarke> Samy : long integer factorization code
[20:57:09] <Samy> emphasis on me showing you, not the inverse.
[20:57:24] <dclarke> Samy : oh .. sorry
[20:57:26] <Samy> ;]
[20:57:36] <dclarke> Samy : drop me an email at dclarke at opensolaris dor org
[20:57:42] <dclarke> Samy : drop me an email at dclarke at opensolaris dot org
[20:57:42] <Samy> I need your gmail.
[20:57:47] <Samy> So I give you access to the blog.
[20:57:51] <dclarke> oh .. blastwave at gmail dot com
[20:57:55] <Samy> cool
[20:57:58] <dclarke> thanks
[20:58:04] <dclarke> I have to run .. go get coffee/caffiene
[20:58:12] <dclarke> then on the phone with geeks in Silicon Valley
[20:58:18] <dclarke> they are allll so geeky down there
[20:58:19] <dclarke> :-)
[20:58:27] * dclarke runs away
[20:58:49] * dclarke whispers general field number sieve
[21:00:09] <Samy> dclarke, invitation sent
[21:02:27] <dclarke> thanks
[21:02:34] <dclarke> okay .. gotta get on a con-call
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[21:03:01] <Pietro_S> dclarke: what are you doing on GFNS?
[21:03:28] <sickness> what's gfns?
[21:04:06] <Pietro_S> general number field sieve ...
[21:04:11] <dclarke_away> bingo .. thats it
[21:04:24] <dclarke_away> I will be back .. but for now that will keep you busy
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[21:06:02] <setui1> is possible that spec-files-extra repository is down?
[21:06:38] <Pietro_S> setui1: sourceforge changed host
[21:07:05] <Pietro_S> setui1: do svn switch --relocate https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/pkgbuild/spec-files-extra/trunk https://pkgbuild.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/pkgbuild/spec-files-extra/trunk
[21:07:12] <setui1> to whichok
[21:07:13] <setui1> thanks
[21:07:20] <Pietro_S> in main dirctory
[21:11:04] <leal_> do you know about any tunning to zfs to performance in emc discs?
[21:11:26] <leal_> i mean, cache or another thing..
[21:11:43] <Pietro_S> hmm, I really bough bad keyboard, I thought that I will teach how to write on it, but after more than month I still have lot's of typos (never buy keyboard by its design) :-(
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[21:14:01] <e^ipi> i buy keyboards based on "can I pull off the keys and rearrange them to be dvorak"
[21:14:10] <e^ipi> nothing beats a model M
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[21:16:10] <CSFrost> Pietro_S, I have two 4000 Microsnuff keyboards, I've gotten used to the design, just when I switch between them I get a little confused. (one is US, and one is JP)
[21:17:17] <coffman> normaly i go by two keyboards per year
[21:17:36] <coffman> i liked fujitsus, atm im stucked to type 6
[21:19:12] <sickness> model M++
[21:20:52] <e^ipi> mine is about 16 years old & it's still going strong
[21:22:01] <e^ipi> gallons of coffee have been dumped in it, it's fallen down 5th floor balconies.... it's the greatest keyboard ever built
[21:22:52] <aghaster> hum... my network device is not up. I can ping other computers on the network, but I can't access the internet
[21:22:59] <aghaster> I tried adding DNS servers, but no luck
[21:23:16] <aghaster> I also tried to ping some IPs from google, but still no luck
[21:23:20] <aghaster> any idea of what I missed?
[21:24:21] <sickness> e^ipi: yeah, and it doesn't surprise that ibm stopped building them because it costed like 100 times a "modern" keyboard...
[21:24:59] <e^ipi> you can still find them at computer graveyards on occasion
[21:25:11] <sickness> yeah
[21:25:18] <sickness> I dig them at local computer fairs ;)
[21:25:25] <sickness> I can get them for cheap
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[21:26:56] * EchoBinary testing
[21:27:06] <EchoBinary> ahh excellent hopefully i dont get knocked off
[21:27:07] <e^ipi> you fail
[21:27:09] <e^ipi> you always fail
[21:27:13] <e^ipi> ... failure
[21:27:41] <EchoBinary> is it possible to swap out the optical media during an opensolaris install in order to install a HW driver?
[21:28:07] <EchoBinary> (without borking the install process)
[21:28:19] <CSFrost> why not install it after?
[21:29:05] <CSFrost> aghaster, you missed one, or more of the settings files..
[21:29:37] <aghaster> yeah... that's what I'm trying to figure out
[21:29:52] <aghaster> I'm reading the doc, but which files should I check?
[21:31:10] <CSFrost> check /etc/nsswitch.conf first
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[21:35:10] <CSFrost> I believe next to 'hosts:  files ' there should be "dns" if I remember right..
[21:35:24] <EchoBinary> O_o
[21:35:50] <aghaster> yeah. that is exactly what I did
[21:36:16] <coffman> EchoBinary: hat areca controller hm?
[21:36:28] <CSFrost> and nameserver is in resolve.conf ?
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[21:36:55] <aghaster> resolv.conf or resolve.conf?
[21:37:04] <aghaster> because no resolve.conf exist on my system, only resolv.conf
[21:37:05] <EchoBinary> 'kay
[21:37:17] <CSFrost> whichever it was.. probably resolv
[21:37:29] <CSFrost> I am going by memory here cause I am eating lunch :-P
[21:37:35] <aghaster> I've added already 3 dns server in this file
[21:37:42] <aghaster> nameserver <dns_server>
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[21:37:59] <CSFrost> did you restart the services, or reboot since then?
[21:38:07] <aghaster> yeah
[21:38:15] <aghaster> I rebooted after adding the dns servers
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[21:38:35] <CSFrost> and was that after editing the nsswitch.conf?
[21:38:53] <aghaster> yeah, I edited nsswitch.conf then added the dns servers and then rebooted
[21:39:39] <CSFrost> thinking.. lets see
[21:39:49] <CSFrost> are you running dhcp?
[21:40:15] <aghaster> I've made a hostname.afe0 to use a static IP address
[21:40:33] <aghaster> but ifconfig -a says the device is up
[21:40:40] <aghaster> with the IP assigned
[21:40:48] <aghaster> and I can ping other computers on the network
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[21:41:42] <coffman> EchoBinary: you install on the disk on the controller?
[21:41:49] <CSFrost> hrm, I haven't done this in a while... but try ifconfig afe0 dhcp start
[21:43:32] <aghaster> worked
[21:43:33] <aghaster> :)
[21:43:34] <aghaster> thanks
[21:44:09] <CSFrost> really?
[21:44:12] <aghaster> yeah
[21:44:16] <CSFrost> how's that for a shot in the dark
[21:44:32] <aghaster> yeah... I hope it'll work on each reboot
[21:44:37] <EchoBinary> coffman:yes-long story...LoL
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[21:44:56] <EchoBinary> sata2 drive-mobo is only sata1
[21:45:06] <CSFrost> it should aghaster..
[21:46:02] <EchoBinary> mobo wont see it as a bootable drive
[21:46:15] <EchoBinary> or the BIOS
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[21:46:54] <CSFrost> even in sata1 mode?
[21:47:09] <CSFrost> there is a jumper on the drive, or should be to switch it into sata1
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[21:48:37] <trochej> I just got the strangest linux encounter ever
[21:48:50] <trochej> I upgraded kernel on router/proxy
[21:49:04] <trochej> rebooted
[21:49:10] <trochej> And got NICs changed places
[21:49:21] <trochej> So out of curiosity rebooted again
[21:49:28] <trochej> And again, nics changed places
[21:49:35] <trochej> So I did it three more times
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[21:49:54] <trochej> And every time NICs got names in random order
[21:50:06] <trochej> Gets scary, when thinking of remote reboot :)
[21:50:09] <ofu> Intel-NICs are sometimes probed in other order after a driver update, but that is really strange...
[21:50:42] <trochej> 3Com
[21:50:46] <trochej> and one intel, yes
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[21:59:00] <EchoBinary> CSFrost: yeah thats my next step - i was hoping to be lazt and avoid popping open the case and taking it out of the rack again
[22:00:33] <CIA-26> keerthi: 6513046 find incorrectly processes action arguments if multiple paths and no, -print
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[22:01:34] <elektronkind> botsnack
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[22:08:14] <r00tintheb0x> Anyone ever seen an instance when configuring oracle that "/usr/sbin/sysdef | grep SHM" returns nothing?
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[22:14:39] <sommerfeld> r00tintheb0x: quoting from comments in sysdef output:  "The IPC Shared Memory module no longer has system-wide limits.  Please see the "Solaris Tunable Parameters Reference Manual" for information...."
[22:23:52] <pjd-> Solaris does locking at file system level, not at VFS level as FreeBSD does.
[22:24:08] <pjd-> This should allow for multiple read-write mounts, I think.
[22:24:16] <pjd-> But Solaris doesn't support that right?
[22:24:40] <pjd-> (ie. where one file system is mounted rw in two or more places)
[22:24:47] <richlowe> assuming you mean cluster-like multi-writer, it depends on the FS.
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[22:25:13] <pjd-> Not cluster, local.
[22:25:13] <richlowe> There's one supported (but not part of Solaris) multi-writer filesystem, but I forget the name.
[22:27:35] <sommerfeld> richlowe: SAMFS/QFS.  originally a third-party product; sun bought the company.  one of them is IIRC a superset of the other which adds file migration & archiving
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[22:28:37] <GHReyes> hello sparc-kly
[22:28:41] <richlowe> from a standpoint of almost complete lack of knowledge, I would expect multiple mounts of the same underlying device on the same system has almost the same coherency problems as doing so on multiple systems.
[22:29:13] <quasi> sommerfeld: samfs is what adds archiving
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[22:30:49] <richlowe> and there's clusters pxfs, I guess.
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[22:50:35] <r00tintheb0x> ok sommerfeld thanks
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[22:51:15] <r00tintheb0x> well
[22:51:17] <r00tintheb0x> this is actually solaris 9
[22:53:04] <sommerfeld> ah, those silly limits were definitely ripped out in s10
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[22:53:46] <r00tintheb0x> yeah, but my DBA is trippin as to why sysdef |grep SEM returns someting and sysdef |grep SHM does not.
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[22:54:32] <r00tintheb0x> as seen here sommerfeld http://pastebin.ca/raw/623787
[22:54:34] <coffman> EchoBinary: the areca controller should be able to handle sata 2 disks
[22:54:46] <r00tintheb0x> I think its because of "IPC Shared Memory module is not loaded"
[22:55:17] <sommerfeld> nobody's using it, so it gets unloaded.  perfectly normal
[22:56:03] <r00tintheb0x> root@httsdb89:/# sysdef |grep SHM
[22:56:03] <r00tintheb0x> 4294967295 max shared memory segment size (SHMMAX)
[22:56:03] <r00tintheb0x> 100 shared memory identifiers (SHMMNI)
[22:56:11] <r00tintheb0x> thats from another machine, why can i not get that output on this machien?
[22:56:16] <r00tintheb0x> machine*
[22:56:48] <sommerfeld> r00tintheb0x: i'd assume that nothing has created a shared memory segment yet so the module isn't loaded yet
[22:57:17] <r00tintheb0x> We're trying to install Oracle.
[22:57:28] <r00tintheb0x> And its giving us "out of memory" errors.
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[23:09:43] <sommerfeld> r00tintheb0x: sorry, out of my depth there
[23:12:08] <r00tintheb0x> its all good
[23:12:12] <r00tintheb0x> thanks for your help sommerfeld
[23:14:15] <enzo> hi
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[23:19:08] <MindDrive> 'xterm -e "command"' no longer seems to work for me with Solaris Express Developer Edition 5/07; did something change with xterm?  The error I get is "Can't execvp <command>"
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[23:21:55] <MindDrive> Giving the full path to the command doesn't fix the issue, btw.
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[23:22:10] <richlowe> drop the quotes.
[23:22:11] <sommerfeld> alanc might know.  try xterm -e sh -c "command with args"
[23:22:14] <richlowe> xterm -e vi foo
[23:22:17] <richlowe> rather xterm -e "vi foo"
[23:22:23] <richlowe> 'rather than'
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[23:25:08] <sickness> 'nite all
[23:27:55] <enzo> 'nite
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[23:34:25] <MindDrive> Thanks, the 'sh -c "<command>"' does work... looks like xterm is a bit broken in this release I'm running.
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[23:36:41] <MindDrive> Dropping the quotes works as well... wonder if that's intentional?
[23:38:56] <sommerfeld> i think you're seeing the difference between exec() and system()
[23:39:07] <sommerfeld> the man page I have says "   -e program [ arguments ... ]"
[23:40:18] <tfb> yes.  If you say -e "program arg" it will try and exec something called "program arg", not program with an argument arg
[23:40:31] <MindDrive> So does mine; what's strange is in Solaris 10 using the quotes work.
[23:40:44] <MindDrive> I'm assuming something changed in xterm.
[23:43:19] <stevel> onnv-gate Hg repo temporarily down while i fix the formatting of that putback
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[23:47:02] <stevel> huh. no auto-rejoin
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[23:47:40] <oxygene> stevel: will the repo ever be stable or can be expect rollbacks and similar hacks forever?
[23:47:50] <richlowe> oxygene: It will stabilize.
[23:47:51] <richlowe> or else.
[23:47:56] <stevel> oxygene: once it becomes the canonical gate - it will be stable
[23:48:18] <richlowe> stevel: also, if I find I merged that, you can fix my workspaces.
[23:48:19] <richlowe> :)
[23:48:31] <stevel> fair enough
[23:48:48] <hali> hm, whats a good _small_ laptop that works well with sxce?
[23:48:54] <stevel> hali: Vaio TX
[23:49:06] <hali> stevel: is that the new weird white ones?
[23:49:10] <stevel> nope
[23:49:14] <hali> good :)
[23:49:15] * hali googles
[23:49:16] <stevel> mine is carbon fiber dark blue
[23:49:33] <stevel> sxce works like a champ on it
[23:49:47] <hali> tbh, sxce has worked quite well on most laptops i've tried it on
[23:50:09] <hali> hm, TX is indeed tiny
[23:50:12] <richlowe> oxygene: it will be stabilize the moment it enters a real beta.
[23:50:12] <hali> excellent
[23:50:16] <richlowe> oxygene: whether stevel likes it or not.
[23:50:23] <hali> but it costs an arm and a leg
[23:50:24] <stevel> hali: 11.1" 1366x768 screen @ 3.7 pounds
[23:50:48] <richlowe> oxygene: as it stands, I'm not sure there's benefit to fixing such historical suck
[23:50:49] * hali is trading a domain name for a new laptop
[23:50:52] <richlowe> given the gate is full of it as it is.
[23:51:00] <richlowe> and it would seem to be an all or nothing proposition.
[23:51:17] <stevel> fine fine. as long as people are okay with that carrying forward. i'll leave it
[23:51:29] <richlowe> I think bmc still has the best, but I can't find it, right now.
[23:51:32] <richlowe> so maybe it did get fixed :(
[23:52:56] <CSFrost> both my 1510d and 1610 fujitsu's work well with sxce also..
[23:53:05] <CSFrost> even tinier then the TX :-P
[23:53:40] <stevel> hali: speedstep, wireless, hardware acceleration (DRI) for the i945, sound, etc.
[23:53:55] <richlowe> ah, no, my bad.
[23:53:58] <richlowe> bmc's was just a file list.
[23:54:01] <stevel> about the only things that aren't supported are the bluetooth and media reader
[23:54:08] <richlowe> akaplan's at 6ea59a49596f is the good one.
[23:54:17] <richlowe> unless that's a bridge bug, and I sure hope it isn't, because that's *early*
[23:55:06] <hali> stevel: speedstep is good, my dell runs at max all the time and hence gets way hot
[23:55:15] <stevel> richlowe: nope, it was bridged correctly
[23:55:44] <richlowe> stevel: so, yeah, spurious linebreaks are the least of the problems in that regard.
[23:56:17] <stevel> richlowe: fair enough
[23:56:30] <CSFrost> speedstep is 69 right?
[23:56:34] <stevel> csfrost: 70
[23:56:43] <richlowe> stevel: we can always blame the gks for not catching it fast enough to ws_undo :)
[23:56:46] <CSFrost> alright :-)
[23:57:16] <CSFrost> I am anxious, I have a handful of ULV's that have been running peak :-)
[23:57:42] <stevel> the nice thing (i'm hoping) with this vaio is that all the drivers are Sun developed, so i'm hoping that when we get suspend/resume support it will work.  or failing that, i can at least file a ton of bugs against the maintainers and get them to whip the drivers into shape so i can suspend/resume
[23:57:50] <stevel> csfrost: you could use the powernow driver
[23:57:57] <stevel> it supports speedstep on my vaio tx already
[23:58:03] <stevel> it's just nice to have it all in the WOS right out of the box
[23:58:05] <richlowe> stevel: you can't just throw more beer at garrett?
[23:58:13] <CSFrost> hrm, is powernow included?
[23:58:19] <CSFrost> in sxce?
[23:58:20] <stevel> csfrost: no, it's part of frkit
[23:58:30] <CSFrost> ah, I'll look into that then
[23:58:31] <stevel> richlowe: dunno if he does suspend/resume.  :)





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