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[00:07:35] <coffman> hm, how would i dump my current xorg config? i dont have a xorg conf yet
[00:07:47] <alanc> Xorg -configure
[00:07:53] <alanc> when X is not already running
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[00:08:45] <richlowe> alanc: isn't the .xorg.conf intended to be exactly that?
[00:09:18] <alanc> .xorg.conf is the output from that at system startup, if it's there
[00:09:33] <alanc> it's created by something silly like the kdmconfig service I think
[00:10:06] <alanc> though .xorg.conf is really intended to be a private interface used by xorgcfg only, there's nothing stopping you from using it
[00:11:03] <jossh> how do i know if i have the latest BrandZ software?
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[00:14:55] <palowoda> Hmm somebody forget to pay the bandwidth bill for Sun Download Center lately? Gets any slow the bits are going to be going the other way.
[00:17:43] <EchoBinary> doh!
[00:18:09] <jossh> how do i check the version of an installed package?
[00:19:13] <quasi> pkginfo -l
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[00:19:48] <jossh> thanks
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[00:28:50] <richlowe> palowoda: it was having... issues.
[00:28:57] <jossh> what folder in / is normally for zones?
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[00:29:02] <richlowe> > grep erro md5sum_x86.list
[00:29:02] <richlowe> An error occurred while processing your request.<p>
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[00:32:21] * sstallion sighs
[00:32:30] <sstallion> are SDN logins no longer allowed through sconadm ?
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[01:00:28] <CIA-26> mcpowers: 6534628 /dev/crypto can use in-place when calling crypto_encrypt API
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[01:15:13] <coffman> jossh: any folder you like, ill do /zones or /export/zones
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[01:18:20] <jossh> ah mk
[01:18:22] <jossh> thanks
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[01:26:29] <sommerfeld> unix has directories, not folders
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[01:32:04] <jossh> how would i install BrandZ into Solaris? the section of the guide was removed
[01:32:05] <leal> somebody can help with sc 32?
[01:32:57] <Tempt> leal: Sure.
[01:33:50] <leal> i'm trying to install it, but the 2) Custom option is not working...
[01:34:29] <_mary_kate_> jossh: it is already installed in SXCE
[01:34:46] <leal> i have just one adapter to private interconnect, so i need to use the *custom* option... but the scinstall does not shows that...
[01:35:30] <Tempt> Hmm. My experience with with SC3.1, and that always forced you to have two cluster interconnects to get through the install.
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[01:36:33] <leal> Tempt: i know, but 3.2 has a custom option... i did that already.... very strange, the *step* that the scinstall should ask me about the adapters is missing!
[01:36:57] <Tempt> That's very odd indeed.
[01:37:05] <jossh> _mary_kate_ i'm following the instructions to the letter. so far i've gotten "SUNWlx: No such zone configured" for "create -t SUNWlx" and illegal option -d for zoneadm -z myzone install -d /centos.tar.bz2
[01:37:37] <Tempt> leal: Not another fault DVD burn? :)
[01:37:42] <jossh> leading me to believe that things in the system aren't configured properly
[01:39:51] <leal> Tempt: no, not this time. :)
[01:42:21] <Tempt> leal: I'm not quite sure what could be breaking that option, other than the fact that those menus have always been a little flakey.
[01:42:31] <Tempt> leal: Any chance you could pop another NIC in for the duration of the install?
[01:44:16] <leal> Temp: No, the interface is PCI-X and i dont have adapter to that.
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[01:44:26] <leal> thanks anyway. :)
[01:46:05] <leal> Tempt: i'm trying to see a *command* line to configure it directly (without the menu)...
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[01:47:52] <Tempt> leal: Hmmm, you should be able to get there.
[01:48:09] <Tempt> leal: At least 3.2 has a revised simplified more sensible commandline.
[01:48:50] <leal> Tempt: scinstall with some *args* should do it...
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[01:53:01] <leal> Tempt: thanks for your time.
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[02:00:46] <CIA-26> keerthi: 6535028 S10 lpsched can crash when printing to a printer class
[02:00:48] <CIA-26> ek110237: 6437054 vdev_cache wises up: increase DB performance by 16%
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[02:38:54] <nrubsig> Tpenta: ping!
[02:42:44] <kaiwai> hmm
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[02:43:55] <kaiwai> looks like zander is running another business into the ground
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[02:49:04] <nrubsig> kaiwai: who is zander ?
[02:51:21] <coffman> nrubsig: hey there
[02:51:58] * nrubsig stares at coffman and burns his flesh with his all-mightly staring...
[02:52:06] <nrubsig> erm
[02:52:10] <nrubsig> xx@@@@!!!!-typos
[02:52:47] <coffman> nrubsig: np, i understand you
[02:52:53] <coffman> nrubsig: so whats the hate?
[02:53:00] <jmcp> ed zander, used to run a division of Sun
[02:53:09] <jmcp> now runs motorola, iirc
[02:53:31] <kaiwai> yeap, ran the processing side
[02:53:33] <kaiwai> *processor
[02:53:37] <kaiwai> IIRC
[02:53:59] <kaiwai> he was seen as some as the 'sober' one to Scotts eratic outbursts
[02:54:01] <coffman> yeah, power is dead
[02:54:46] <kaiwai> power?
[02:54:58] <coffman> ppc
[02:54:59] <nrubsig> coffman: nah, no hate... just making bad jokes.
[02:55:00] <kaiwai> I've got the power power, zap power or "look at that power processor"
[02:55:09] <kaiwai> ah
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[03:06:31] <Wez> hey guys, wonder if this is an faq... when we try to install SUNWgtar on our t2000 we get errors like:
[03:06:38] <Wez> /usr/sfw/bin/gtar
[03:06:38] <Wez> pkgadd: ERROR: unable to open </var/tmp/SUNWgtar/reloc/usr/sfw/bin/gtar> for reading: (2) No such file or directory
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[03:06:59] <Wez> if I look in the package dir, there are no files under reloc, but there is an archive/none.bz2
[03:07:14] <Wez> am I missing a patch or something?
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[03:12:15] <kaiwai> interesting, anyone here used Virtualbox?
[03:14:16] <jmcp> Wez: what is the command line which you are using with pkgadd?
[03:15:04] <Wez> jmcp: pkgadd -d . SUNWgtar
[03:15:48] <_mary_kate_> Wez: what directory are in you when you do that?
[03:16:15] <Wez>  /var/tmp
[03:16:28] <Wez> which is where the SUNWgtar dir is sitting
[03:16:32] <_mary_kate_> sure you copied the package correctly?
[03:16:53] <jbk> are there permission issues with any of the files under SUNWgtar?
[03:17:22] <Wez> checking
[03:17:33] <Wez> it was copied over using scp -r
[03:17:43] <jbk> make sure the stuff is readable by everyone
[03:17:54] <Wez> it is, and I'm root
[03:18:01] <_mary_kate_> Wez: suggest tar cf - . | ssh tar xf -
[03:18:02] <jbk> but certain things get run by nobody
[03:18:34] <jbk> though that'd probably get you a permission denied issue now that i think about it
[03:18:43] <Wez> I'm getting file not found
[03:18:48] <jbk> is the file there?
[03:19:09] <Wez> no, but there is a none.bz2 that I've never seen in a solaris package before
[03:19:24] <Wez> seems like the pkg tools don't know about it?
[03:19:35] <jbk> oh yeah, they do that.. i forgot about that..
[03:19:56] <jbk> well there's probably a class action script that uncompresses it i believe
[03:20:22] <Wez> yes, I see it
[03:21:24] <jmcp> that's where the archive is stored
[03:21:53] <Wez> I don't see it try to run the script
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[03:33:15] <bda> https://www14.software.ibm.com/iwm/web/cc/earlyprograms/ibm/aix6beta/download.shtml?S_TACT=105AGX59&S_CMP=HP&ca=dgr-lnxw07aix6beta # O_o
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[03:35:12] * coffman looks around
[03:35:21] <coffman> no power system, no aix
[03:36:48] <jbk> wouldn't you rather use unix anyway? :)
[03:37:18] <coffman> jbk: hm?
[03:37:35] <jbk> just a joke :)
[03:38:04] <jbk> never heard aix == Ain't Unix? :)
[03:38:25] <CSFrost> it's beginning to be more and more of a Solaris clone anyway. :-)
[03:38:42] <coffman> yeah right
[03:41:43] <jbk> though i am curious how they are accomplish moving their equivalent of a zone live
[03:41:45] <kaiwai> hmm, so whens IBM going to opensource notes/domino/aix/smartsuite given Linux devotee's seem to be celebrating IBM as the hero of the opensource movement
[03:41:54] <kaiwai> *when is
[03:41:54] <jbk> heh
[03:42:04] <jbk> i spent 3 hours this morning fighting with notes :(
[03:42:18] <kaiwai> I love asking that question to Linux users who seem to be gushy over IBM
[03:42:22] <CSFrost> IBM has no plans currently to open any of it's proprietary software.
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[03:42:46] <kaiwai> CSFrost: IBM has no plans not to make purchasing their software any easier either
[03:42:50] <jbk> well i for one, cannot imagine where the open source world would be without free use of IBM's patented tamper-proof screw
[03:42:51] <CSFrost> They are quite happy to say so also, I fail to see the importanance behind the question
[03:42:56] <jbk> so graciously donated by them
[03:42:58] 
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[03:43:28] <CSFrost> spelling is not with me at this hour either..
[03:43:46] <jbk> i mean, linux would not have survived without it
[03:43:58] <kaiwai> why linux - why not FreeBSD?
[03:44:25] * kaiwai waits for the scream "GPL" from the linux crowd
[03:44:58] <CSFrost> Kaiwai has a point though, ibm shouldn't bother giving away any code.. no corporation should, it's pointless. I'lll  write some emails.
[03:45:19] <jbk> i think he's pointing out more the hypocracy
[03:45:51] <kaiwai> jbk: yes, the slamming of Sun over 'not opensourcing java' then failing to opensource their own stack
[03:45:56] <CSFrost> But pointing it out doesn't do too much, when  it could easily be worse. :-)
[03:45:57] <jbk> where ibm's relicensed a rather small, and overall insignificant amount of their software under open source, but then tries to paint itself as the white night
[03:46:50] <jbk> and somewhat annoying and amusing that the slasholes eat it up
[03:46:55] <kaiwai> jbk: and contributions are useless at best; a threading library that never went anywhere, a file system that no one gives a shit about, and porting it to an overly expensive hardware platform - nice
[03:47:23] <CSFrost> People eat up Microsoft's dribble too, it doesn't mean everyone should be like them.
[03:47:40] <coffman> why talk about? ibm, linux, gpl - i dont care!
[03:47:50] <CSFrost> I take the highroad, and don't complain if there is a chance things could be even worse.
[03:48:32] <kaiwai> CSFrost: true, but it does annoy one when people slam Sun and ignore IBM
[03:49:35] <kaiwai> Sun is no saint, but geeze, IBM as a white knight?
[03:49:45] <CSFrost> no one is ignored, it's only your view which perceives things that way
[03:50:39] <CSFrost> every corporations own employees are more than happy to slam their own employer. It's nothing to be political about.
[03:50:51] <jbk> well the one encouraging thing is that sun seems to be getting a decent amount of positive press lately, it just takes a while before it filters up to the top
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[03:51:30] <kaiwai> jbk: and the new CEO seems to be putting Sun in the correct direction too
[03:51:46] <kaiwai> less screaming about Microsoft and more knuckling down fixing issues
[03:51:48] <jbk> though, i still think they should invest in ads in in-flight magazines, since it seems that far too many mgmt decisions at companies are made based off of them :)
[03:52:12] <kaiwai> jbk: I said that 6 years ago at a java meeting - the lack of marketing in mainstream media
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[03:52:18] <_mary_kate_> if only certain people in this channel would have that attitude
[03:53:16] <CSFrost> next week I am going to be an Asus fanboy, for.. well no reason what-so-ever.
[03:53:34] <kaiwai> hmm, apparently asus make fans as well
[03:53:42] <kaiwai> would that make you an asus fan fanboy?
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[03:58:12] <_mary_kate_> wesolows: when you replace hardware raid with zfs, how do you make up for the lack of battery-backed write cache?
[03:58:53] <jbk> well unless you're doing lot's of sync's, more ram on your server i'd imagine
[03:59:09] <bda> That doesn't help in the event of a system failure.
[03:59:26] <_mary_kate_> jbk: i'm thinking of sync-heavy workloads, like databases
[03:59:29] <CSFrost> I welcome your return to oblivian, Wesolows.
[03:59:42] <bda> Wouldn't a battery-backed enclosure still work, as long as you enable the write cache on the controller?
[04:00:03] <_mary_kate_> bda: yes, but some people (like wes) say that hardware raid is obsolete
[04:00:33] <CIA-26> maheshvs: 6541799 nfsv4 server should be open-minded about future minorversions
[04:00:34] <CIA-26> bholler: 6577473 Nocona box panic when booting snv_68: Can't handle mwait size 0
[04:00:41] <wesolows> _mary_kate_: Depends what you mean.  The NVRAM is not required by ZFS for correctness.
[04:01:10] <_mary_kate_> wesolows: no, but it is required for decent speed - the data _must_ be on disk if you don't have nvram.  zfs can't magically make the disk faster :)
[04:01:11] <jbk> well one way would might be some very fast non-volatile storage for the zil
[04:01:44] <jbk> with the bits that just got integrated recently
[04:05:33] <jbk> though i have to wonder how much performance opportunity might exist if there was a way for databases to better communicate intent to zfs than the current public apis..
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[04:13:19] <uebayasi> む
[04:13:34] <uebayasi> sorry
[04:13:41] <CSFrost> utf8 :-)
[04:14:12] <uebayasi> wasn't it iso-2022-jp?
[04:14:27] <CSFrost> yes, your text was, but the room is utf
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[04:20:45] <coffman> _mary_kate_: uhm, ups ? :P
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[04:23:29] <_mary_kate_> heh
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[04:25:37] <kaiwai> hmm, is sun capping the download rates to 70KB/s?
[04:25:56] <coffman> kaiwai: no, they forgot to pay the bill
[04:26:02] <kaiwai> ah
[04:26:36] <CSFrost> they upped the speeds on docs.sun, so they needed to do some cutbacks.
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[04:29:45] <hile_> kaiwai -- i'm getting 140
[04:30:06] <hile_> sdlc just hates you because you're on south island
[04:30:26] <_mary_kate_> 3.45MB/sec :)
[04:31:02] <hile_> hahaha
[04:31:12] <hile_> you suck
[04:31:19] <_mary_kate_> :(
[04:31:34] <_mary_kate_> sdlc just loves me
[04:32:03] <hile_> heh
[04:33:08] <jbk> heh
[04:33:21] <jbk> i was getting something like that at my old job
[04:34:00] <CSFrost> $3.45 an hour? yea, me too
[04:34:02] <jbk> was nice
[04:34:06] <jbk> haha
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[04:41:14] <kaiwai> hile_: meh, it hates me full stop
[04:42:02] <_mary_kate_> oh here we go: 02:41:57 (31.13 MB/s) - `sol-10-u3-ga-x86-dvd-iso-e.zip' saved [584084280/584084280]
[04:42:03] <_mary_kate_> :D
[04:43:11] <kaiwai> *shakes fist*
[04:43:16] <kaiwai> lucky lass
[04:43:36] <_mary_kate_> nah, it's never that fast when i actually want to download something
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[04:45:49] <CSFrost> she was just in yer serving, leachin' up yer bandwigs.
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[04:47:40] <kaiwai> kinda wished I got the Macbook pro
[04:48:01] <CSFrost> that's my que to go get some z's
[04:48:02] <CSFrost> night all
[04:49:18] <kaiwai> good night
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[04:49:26] <kaiwai> *tucks csfrost in bed*
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[04:50:22] <kaiwai> it would be nice to know what indiana is
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[04:52:25] <jbk> a godforsaken state that reeks of manure? :)
[04:52:58] <jbk> full of rednecks and once a kkk stronghold? :)
[04:53:33] <jbk> a state that once had a bill (never ratified) defining pi as 3?
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[04:53:46] <jbk> i'll stop there :)
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[04:56:34] <keisangi> hi there
[04:57:46] <keisangi>  it's not opensolaris related, but, i have this old sun server.. i can access it through ssh. my boss asked me to get OS version , architechture (32 or 64bit) and that sort of infos..
[04:58:02] <keisangi> all i could figure was "uname -a"
[04:58:49] <_mary_kate_> uname -a will tell you the version and the server type
[04:58:50] <jbk> that'd give you it
[04:58:55] <_mary_kate_> isainfo -b will tell you 32/64 bit
[04:59:12] <keisangi> which told me : Sun OS (hostname) 5.8 Generic_108528-17 sun4u sparc SUNW,UltraAX-i2
[04:59:21] <jbk> though, any specific reason why you care?
[04:59:24] <_mary_kate_> UltraAX?  what the heck is that?
[04:59:29] <jbk> for the most part
[04:59:29] <keisangi> dunno
[04:59:33] <_mary_kate_> keisangi: that is Solaris 8
[04:59:44] <jbk> if the cpu is 64-bit, solaris will run a 64-bit kernel
[05:00:06] <keisangi> it's just my boss, he asked me to get info from this old donkey .. this terminal doesn't even have auto-completion, nor MC installed
[05:00:10] <jmcp> _mary_kate_: that's either an early netra, or an oem'd machine
[05:00:26] <CIA-26> maheshvs: 6289186 _nfssys(NFS_SVC_REQUEST_QUIESCE) failed: No such file or directory
[05:00:27] <jmcp> shells support auto-completion, not terminals
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[05:01:15] <keisangi> so is there's a way to get OS version number, update number and such ?
[05:01:31] <_mary_kate_> keisangi: the OS is solaris 8 (sunos 5.8 = solaris 8)
[05:01:39] <_mary_kate_> keisangi: you can find the update revision from /etc/release
[05:01:42] <jbk> well /etc/release should have the update info
[05:02:04] <keisangi> _mary_kate_, , jbk cool i test that :)
[05:02:35] <_mary_kate_> it'll be two numbers like 11/98 (i forget when S8 was around :)
[05:02:40] <keisangi> great ..
[05:02:46] <jmcp> 11/99, iirc
[05:03:01] <keisangi> isiainfo -b  and /etc/release have all the needed info
[05:03:03] <keisangi> thanks !
[05:05:22] <keisangi> jmcp, Solaris 8 1/01 s28s_u3wos_08 SPARCC
[05:07:44] <jmcp> that's update 3 of Solaris 8
[05:08:40] * jmcp checks the release date list
[05:11:31] <jmcp> last release of s7 was 11/99. FCS of solaris 8 was 02/2002
[05:12:02] <_mary_kate_> that seems like a rather long gap
[05:12:13] <_mary_kate_> hm, maybe only a year
[05:13:54] <jmcp> keisangi: so your system is running an insanely and (imnsho) just about criminally old kernel patch rev on an OS which was EOLd last year
[05:14:52] <keisangi> jmcp, thnaks for the info i forward it to my boss
[05:16:28] <nrubsig> kaiwai: which IP address does that machine have ?
[05:16:31] <nrubsig> er
[05:16:40] <nrubsig> keisangi: which IP address does that machine have ?
[05:16:48] <nrubsig> keisangi: and what's the root password ?
[05:17:18] <keisangi> 192.168.0.3 root/root123
[05:17:24] <keisangi> ;)
[05:17:30] * nrubsig grumbles
[05:18:01] <nrubsig> keisangi: too bad...I tought I could add this to my collection of "root acounts on unpatched Solaris machines"
[05:18:14] <nrubsig> s/tought/thought/
[05:18:51] <keisangi> they asked me to grab info about it cause they're considering replacing the machine anyway ..
[05:18:54] * nrubsig tries to hack the machines at 127.0.0.1 instead...
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[05:19:06] <_mary_kate_> hey i finally upgraded my 3/05 system to 11/06, i feel so up-to-date ;-)
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[05:21:21] * nrubsig wonders who writes the JDS scripts...
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[05:22:24] <nrubsig> jamesd_: ping!
[05:23:18] <jamesd_> pong
[05:23:30] <kaiwai> _mary_kate_: hmm, isn't there a newer version of Solaris 10 out?
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[05:25:43] <nrubsig> jamesd_: ---> /msg
[05:25:48] <jmcp> kaiwai: we're still waiting for u4
[05:25:55] <jmcp> 11/06 is s10u3
[05:26:12] <jamesd_> nrubsig,  nope.. the one place that was, just hired me ;-)   about 2 weeks ago
[05:26:23] <_mary_kate_> kaiwai: RSN, i hear.
[05:26:50] <jamesd_> oops
[05:26:53] <_mary_kate_> (although i'm not planning to upgrade until solaris 11 ;-)
[05:28:07] <jamesd_> nrubsig, see if sun is hiring...  you have some mean skills and have worked with them enough
[05:30:02] <kaiwai> _mary_kate_: thats gonna be a while; it would be nice if they had firmware uploading for usb video cams
[05:30:31] <_mary_kate_> uhm, i can't say i care much about that
[05:32:22] <jamesd_> nrubsig, can you get a visa/work permit for the states, i just read about a 6months contract deal in  VA, USA
[05:33:06] <_mary_kate_> hmm, apparently ipf 'block return-rst' is still broken in 11/06
[05:34:04] <kaiwai> _mary_kate_: meh, webcam support would be nice though
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[05:34:19] <_mary_kate_> yes.  my servers really need webcams :)
[05:34:35] * kaiwai cues music "you can leave your hat on"
[05:34:52] <kaiwai> not that I'd do anything like that *innocent face*
[05:36:12] <jmcp> kaiwai: have you blended an iPhone? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg1ckCkm8YI
[05:36:55] <_mary_kate_> jmcp: if i asked really nicely, would you log a call on 6266978 so it might get fixed in S10 some day? :D
[05:38:09] <jmcp> nope. it's been integrated into s10u4.
[05:38:17] <kaiwai> jmcp: na, haven't see it ;) as for purchasing it, given how expensive it is, its a waste of time
[05:38:45] <_mary_kate_> jmcp: oh!  awesome.
[05:39:28] <kaiwai> I wish there was a virtual machine for Solaris though
[05:39:55] <RobG> After successfully writing my first piece of productive C code yesterday I now need to come to grips with SVN so that I can start lodging changes. However I'm a complete noob.
[05:40:16] <RobG> What SVN client is recommended for Solaris?
[05:40:33] <_mary_kate_> RobG: in nevada, /usr/bin/svn
[05:40:57] <_mary_kate_> RobG: the svnbook at subversion.tigris.org is fairly reasonable introduction
[05:41:46] <RobG> thx I'll check it out
[05:41:53] <nrubsig> jamesd_: can you email me the URL, please ?
[05:42:26] <jamesd_> nrubsig, msg me your  email address and i will forward the email to you...  i dont have a url
[05:43:26] <jamesd_> I wanted to see if you were looking for work at the moment.  I might have a 6 month SUN contract in Virginia for somebody who can do server builds, datacenter consolidation and work with Solaris 10 containers.
[05:43:26] <jamesd_>
[05:43:26] <jamesd_> Let me know if you would be interested and what kind of rate you would need (all-inclusive) for this and I will try to get some more details for you.
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[05:46:56] <nrubsig> jamesd_: emal is roland.mainz at nrubsig dot org
[05:51:28] <jamesd_> nrubsig, sent ..  you will see what i did. :-)
[05:52:09] <nrubsig> jamesd_: Thanks! :-)
[05:52:37] <jamesd_> nrubsig, are you in germany or the u.s.?
[05:53:45] * coffman wonders if nrubsig could get into the usa
[05:54:41] <jbk> he could always enter via mexico :)
[05:54:44] <nrubsig> jamesd_: I can move... that shouldn't be a big problem.
[05:55:04] <nrubsig> coffman: I've been in the US before.... I know they won't shoot me on sight.
[05:55:26] <coffman> nrubsig: before or after 9/11 ?
[05:55:41] <nrubsig> coffman: after 9/11
[05:55:45] <nrubsig> and before
[05:56:25] <jbk> which areas did you visit?
[05:56:34] <nrubsig> coffman: the only difference is that they don't like the joke with the schnappgreifer anymore...
[05:56:51] <nrubsig> jbk: boston, X.org conference
[05:56:56] <coffman> lul
[05:57:03] <nrubsig> coffman: ?!
[05:57:13] <coffman> schnappgreifer
[05:57:46] <jbk> boston's neat, but far too cold for too long
[05:58:14] <nrubsig> coffman: kind of self-made toy for by nieces... looks innocent... like a ball with spikes. if you touch it it will grab your hand and then you have to figure out how to remove it.
[05:58:21] <nrubsig> s/by/my/
[05:58:29] <coffman> my ex-boss got hold for 8 hours last time when getting in the usa, and he is us-citizen
[05:59:24] <nrubsig> coffman: the person who checked my backpack accidently touched the damn thing, causing some trouble until they let me remove it from him... ;-/
[05:59:37] <jamesd_> well he must be a terrorist... he left the country and saw how the other 1/2 lives and came back vollentarily...
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[05:59:38] <coffman> nrubsig: you should combine it with a grenade, would sell of big time
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[06:00:07] <nrubsig> coffman: this is designed as TOY for children.
[06:00:31] <coffman> might be cause he is german and us citizen :P
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[06:30:51] <kaiwai> hmm, interesting
[06:32:09] <kaiwai> ok, lets hope VMWare pulls their nose out of Microsofts ass and produces a product for solaris x86
[06:32:58] <jbk> i wonder if hp ever ported openview to x86 yet
[06:33:30] <kaiwai> doubt it would happen, if there were ever a list of Microsoft whores, HP would be relegated close to the top
[06:35:13] <jbk> well i think the problem is, there isn't a GM or the like to make HP do it
[06:35:34] <kaiwai> then again, is there much demand for it?
[06:35:51] <jbk> well my last place it is their 'standard'
[06:36:02] <jbk> and thus the only reason why they didn't deploy solaris x86
[06:36:16] <jbk> though i think they're not seeing the forest for the trees
[06:36:27] <kaiwai> has sun thought of throwing money at it?
[06:36:57] <jbk> as the money savings of one of their projects had they used x86 would have been a substantial fraction of what they've invested on openview
[06:37:28] <jbk> i.e. after a few more projects, they've lost more money by denying themselves x86 than they spent on openview
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[06:37:55] <kaiwai> jbk: unfortunately some companies have addictions to software, they think they need something they really don't need
[06:38:18] <jbk> well the thing is, for some of the pieces, they've swapped things out multiple times before going to openview
[06:38:19] <kaiwai> take sharepoint, for instance - pointless crap which companies think they need
[06:38:27] <jbk> so it's not like anyone wouldn't be use to it
[06:39:18] <jbk> but like many things in that company, the wrong people were in control of that area
[06:39:37] <jbk> basically the sysadmins had almost 0 input on the monitoring infrastructure, or even setting up the alarms
[06:39:48] <jbk> and all the customized stuff was done by people with almost no unix experience
[06:40:35] <kaiwai> jbk: if you want to see horror stories, you should look at my last job working at an ISp in aussie
[06:43:28] <jbk> hehe
[06:43:56] <kaiwai> talk about the worlds worst setup - hodge-podge of linux crap, windows crap, old crap, new crap, dear god, the guy who set it up must have been pissed, stoned and metally disturbed
[06:45:05] <jbk> a sun ps guy actually consulted there, pulled me aside and said i needed to get the f--- out of there, as it was the most messed up place he had ever seen.. which is probably why they keep falling farther and farther behind their competitors
[06:45:38] <jbk> this was before i told him i had already been planning the move for over a year at that point :)
[06:45:45] <kaiwai> lol
[06:46:48] <kaiwai> well, I'm always surprised to see the number of 'experts' who have 'degree's who couldn't setup a damn network to save themselves
[06:47:04] <kaiwai> "look at me! I have a suite! that makes me an expert! worship me!"
[06:47:41] <jbk> the guy is pretty sharp
[06:48:04] <jmcp> kaiwai: my suite is pretty sweet .....
[06:48:29] <kaiwai> I have a suite, but its a wasted suite if worn by someone clueless
[06:48:33] <jbk> he was more focused on oracle than solaris, but still knew his stuff
[06:48:44] <jbk> and knew who to talk to when he didn't
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[06:49:57] <kaiwai> jmcp: believe me, I've seen sun employees who don't see the link between crap marketing, lack of uptake of Sun products, and low profits - I shit you not
[06:50:10] <kaiwai> not rocket science, common sense
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[06:51:18] <jbk> well, in their defense, part of it, is sun believe it or not is a lot smaller than a lot of their competition
[06:51:55] <jbk> the example i heard was i think in edmonton
[06:52:02] <kaiwai> true, but marketing to geeks on slashdot?
[06:52:10] <jbk> i think sun had like 15 employees there, including several interns
[06:52:18] <jbk> IBM had like over 700 employees there
[06:52:23] <kaiwai> where abouts?
[06:52:42] <jbk> edmonton, alberta, canada if i remember correctly
[06:53:14] <jmcp> kaiwai: I do. I've met people like that too
[06:53:25] <jbk> kaiwai: well for most of them, sun could gplv2 everything it owned tomorrow (pretend it's actually possible), and they'd still find some reason to dislike sun
[06:53:56] <kaiwai> jmcp: how do they get jobs at Sun?
[06:53:57] <jmcp> jbk: of course they would, it's part of their genetic makeup now
[06:54:01] <jmcp> kaiwai: shrug
[06:54:14] <kaiwai> jmcp: sun never got back to me, but I guess because I don't have a degree they assume I'm as thick as shit
[06:54:33] <jbk> it could be a bunch of reasons
[06:54:50] <jbk> depending on the circumstance, it could simply be an idiot manager
[06:54:59] <jmcp> it's generally unwise to make assumptions
[06:55:03] <jbk> when i was in college
[06:55:26] <jbk> i all but had an internship in one of the groups that designed the 12k/15k
[06:55:41] <jbk> except, the manager decided he didn't want anyone that wasn't local
[06:55:48] <jbk> for internships
[06:55:55] <jbk> well co-op, but same idea
[06:57:09] <jbk> but could be, they might have already filled the position
[06:57:10] <kaiwai> jmcp: unwise, but having seen these HR people, if you hit their head, something very small would fall out
[06:57:11] <_mary_kate_> ksh93 doesn't support !* ?
[06:57:29] <jbk> perhaps after some re-org, the open req was killed
[06:57:34] <jbk> etc.
[06:57:35] <jbk> etc.
[06:57:50] <jbk> _mary_kate_: well that's actually a csh-ism i thought (that bash borrowed)
[06:58:00] <_mary_kate_> a very useful one though
[06:58:25] <jbk> can always ask them about supporting it :)
[06:58:33] <_mary_kate_> i think i'll just go back to zsh :)
[06:58:58] <Atomdrache> I find zsh quite comfortable, myself.
[06:59:42] <jbk> that's what i've been gravitating towards myself
[06:59:45] <kaiwai> oh well, waiting for support for key devinces before moving my lappy to Solaris
[07:00:05] <jmcp> still?
[07:00:07] <jmcp> what's missing now?
[07:00:18] <coffman> is nrubsig around? oh he is not
[07:00:22] <coffman> zsh ftw!
[07:00:23] <jbk> <kaiwai> usb blender
[07:00:28] <kaiwai> nope
[07:00:36] <kaiwai> webcam and minidisc support
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[07:01:52] <kaiwai> usb blender would be nice though
[07:02:46] <jmcp> kaiwai: istr that generic usb webcams are supported as of several builds ago
[07:03:18] <kaiwai> jmcp: nope, isn't supported because it requires firmware to be loaded for it to operate
[07:03:27] <jmcp> oh right
[07:03:34] <jmcp> so you've got a specific problem, not a generic one
[07:03:44] <jmcp> because otherwise any build  past snv_56 should be fine
[07:03:51] <jmcp> you bought the wrong device :-)
[07:04:04] <kaiwai> yeap, basically, the USB cam support needs firmware upload support
[07:04:10] <kaiwai> jmcp: it came with my laptop
[07:04:37] <jmcp> like I said .... :-P
[07:04:38] <kaiwai> jmcp: at the risk of sounding like a complete asshole - its the operating system vendors responsibility to support hardweare, not my job to go searching for the supported one
[07:05:03] <_mary_kate_> actually, its the vendor's job
[07:05:45] <kaiwai> _mary_kate_: the code is there, its up to sun to implement it
[07:05:57] <jmcp> kaiwai: istr we've had this discussion before somewhere
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[07:06:09] <bda> I bought this electric razor, but the plug only works in the UK.
[07:06:23] <bda> Stupid British.
[07:06:32] <jmcp> if the code or specs are not being made available to an OS vendor which wants to implement a driver for it, then how is that the fault of the OS vendor?
[07:06:45] <jmcp> eg, Conexant and their tv capture cards
[07:06:54] <kaiwai> jmcp: the specifications are made available
[07:07:06] <jmcp> so have you logged an RFE for it?
[07:07:08] <kaiwai> jmcp: everything, except the memory card reader, by Ricoh is documented
[07:07:14] <kaiwai> jmcp: yes I have
[07:07:23] <kaiwai> jmcp: given how crap the bug database is, I can't find it
[07:07:32] <jmcp> do you remember any keywords?
[07:07:41] <jmcp> I can search bugster for you and find out what the status is
[07:12:52] <kaiwai> gonna have a look now
[07:13:32] <_mary_kate_> jmcp: with itmpt, i can use "lsiutil" to look at RAID status (drives, resync progres, ...).  is there anything like that for mpt?
[07:13:53] <kaiwai> something along the lines of 'hp webcam'
[07:15:33] <jmcp> _mary_kate_: not as such
[07:15:44] <jmcp> though you might want to read the manpage for raidctl
[07:15:53] <jmcp> kaiwai: what model laptop do you have?
[07:16:25] <kaiwai> its an HP dv6209tx
[07:16:29] <kaiwai> Pavilion
[07:16:38] <jmcp> ta
[07:17:06] <jmcp> _mary_kate_: raidctl -l ..... might be on track
[07:17:13] <kaiwai> the model webcam: Ricoh, http://lsb.blogdns.net/ry5u870/
[07:17:22] <kaiwai> thats the linux source code with the firmware required
[07:18:46] <_mary_kate_> hmm, raidctl(1m) suggests it only supports raid-1 mirrors, but i'll have a fiddle at some point
[07:18:47] <kaiwai> its usbv compliant but requires firmware to be uploaded to make it operational; Solaris detects it, but can't use it for anything useful - the ekig thingy doesn't work with it
[07:19:42] <jmcp> ekiga is r00ted right now, until snv_69 is out
[07:19:46] <jmcp> but yeah, point taken
[07:19:55] <jmcp> those sorts of devices piss me off
[07:20:01] <_mary_kate_> although it says it supports LSI1030, which is what this is
[07:20:12] <kaiwai> I'm assuming that maybe the firmware was used for 'extra' functionality?
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[07:20:44] <jmcp> perhaps
[07:20:51] <kaiwai> VMware workstaion for solaris would be good though, I've emailed VMWare regarding its product
[07:21:15] <kaiwai> that'll fix the issue with minidisc - I don't see Sun paying sony for Sonicstage to be made available
[07:21:25] <jmcp> the only sensible justification for requiring downloadable firmware - imnsho - is wifi cards, since their very existence requires use of a tightly regulated spectrum
[07:21:28] <jmcp> nah
[07:21:34] <jmcp> minidisc is not my favourite format
[07:21:55] <kaiwai> jmcp: i went minidisc because my experience so far, with 4 ipods to my name, is each of them are crap
[07:22:16] <jmcp> heh
[07:22:29] <jmcp> I suspect my ipod is on its last legs
[07:22:34] <jmcp> keeps having fs corruption issues
[07:22:44] <kaiwai> when one is shitting bricks over whether the device is broken from a small drop - its a shock indication on build quality and robustness
[07:23:04] <_mary_kate_> http://rafb.net/p/qhqydp61.html < this is unhealthy, right?  the asvc_t for c0t0d0 seems much too high for the load it has
[07:23:07] <kaiwai> given that MiniDisc is just a giant file on a fat partition, it should be easy to decipher what to do
[07:24:17] <jmcp> kaiwai: a SMOP, eh?
[07:24:38] <kaiwai> jmcp: yeap, just reading through, needs the ability to upload firmware to make it work - uvc need to get their act together over at sun
[07:24:38] <jmcp> _mary_kate_: that doesn't look too good to me. what sort of device is it?
[07:24:45] <kaiwai> jmcp: SMOP?
[07:24:53] <_mary_kate_> jmcp: an mpt raid-10 array, 6x 146GB SCSI disks
[07:24:54] <jmcp> Simple Matter Of Programming
[07:24:58] <jmcp> _mary_kate_: ouch
[07:25:17] <jmcp> kaiwai: aka "a simple exercise for the gentle reader"
[07:25:20] <_mary_kate_> i was suspicious when it took so long to build the array.  now i suspect something is definitely broken :)
[07:26:08] <jmcp> yeah, looks like it
[07:26:51] <kaiwai> jmcp: yeap, or licencing tech from Sony, anyway, off to work, brb
[07:27:05] <jmcp> ciaociao
[07:27:33] <jmcp> _mary_kate_: how long has that array been doing its formatting thing?
[07:27:45] <coffman> kaiwai: forget about it, i was last week at the vmware symposium in frankfurt and bitched about solaris as vmware host, they want to see "more market share" for solaris
[07:27:54] <_mary_kate_> jmcp: it's finished now, but it took over 48 hours to sync
[07:28:21] <axisys> is the lasest java web server is written using glassfish?
[07:28:26] <jmcp> _mary_kate_: that seems a tad long
[07:28:50] <_mary_kate_> yes.  i created an array on the same type of controller with 2 72G disks, and it was finished in a couple of hours
[07:28:50] <axisys> i have seen the high record on spec as the best app server.. is it glassfish or java web server?
[07:29:24] <_mary_kate_> i think i'll schedule some downtime and test the disks
[07:30:16] <coffman> hardware raid, such crap
[07:30:49] <_mary_kate_> er, i've used mpt raid a few times before and not had any problems with it.
[07:30:55] <_mary_kate_> i don't think it's the card's fault if a disk is broken
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[07:31:44] <jmcp> coffman: explain yourself
[07:32:22] <bda> Preferably in iambic pentameter.
[07:32:45] <jmcp> :)
[07:33:34] <coffman> jmcp: well, i dont like it and i stay away from it when i can
[07:33:45] <jmcp> why don't you like hw raid?
[07:34:44] <coffman> jmcp: atm i have a machine at a customer with a pci parity error, it eat away all the whole partition while the raid was perfectly happy about it self
[07:35:02] * jmcp sings the ZFS tune
[07:35:07] <coffman> yep
[07:35:10] <coffman> me 2
[07:35:20] <_mary_kate_> i dream of the day zfs can compete in innodb performance :)
[07:35:21] <coffman> but it was a crappy linux box
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[07:36:02] <coffman> jmcp: then i seen this nice raid 5's that died away
[07:36:26] <coffman> first hd failed, rebuild started, 2 hours later second disk failed
[07:36:29] <coffman> nice!
[07:36:55] <EchoBinary> ack!
[07:37:53] <coffman> seen a company almost die cause of that, tape system was faulty to, they lost much of there data
[07:38:10] <bda> Stuff like that, it's not really the hardware's fault.
[07:38:15] <bda> It's the people running the hardware. :P
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[07:38:25] <coffman> yes
[07:38:40] <bda> Speaking of which, off to go kick a box in the face. >:|
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[08:29:25] <Reidms-420R> Is nessus still any good?
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[08:36:16] <ball> hello pjd-
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[08:59:21] <pjd-> ball: Hi.
[09:00:33] <CIA-26> yc148097: 6559504 nxge_ipp_eccue_valid_check causes FMA errors
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[09:46:04] <ACT> hey
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[09:46:19] <edwardocallaghan> can't be here for long
[09:46:40] <edwardocallaghan> this lib is stupid, basicly no computers and they doing bookings
[09:48:35] <edwardocallaghan> Is anyone around?
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[09:56:11] <Atomdrache> Does anybody know where to find the Elite3D drivers for SPARC Solaris (SUNWafb)?  I can't find it online so far.
[09:56:21] <e^ipi> EOL ?
[09:56:46] <Atomdrache> Maybe.  But does anybody know where that might be found?
[09:56:55] <e^ipi> ask the sparc graphics team... they're a wonderful bunch of people and never try to push work on the xorg team ever
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[09:59:54] <edwardocallaghan> I hear that there are no drivers for xorg for SPARC ?
[10:00:07] <edwardocallaghan> that maybe old news though
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[10:00:21] <trygvis> that is obviously wrong, xorg runs on a bunch of platforms
[10:00:40] <trygvis> but sun's drivers might be better as they're written by the same people who made the hardware
[10:00:45] <e^ipi> there are Xorg drivers for currently-shipping SPARC graphics cards as i understand it
[10:00:48] <Atomdrache> Xorg isn't on there.
[10:00:57] <e^ipi> but not EOL cards
[10:01:27] <Atomdrache> (Unless it is and just doesn't show up in ps)
[10:01:34] <edwardocallaghan> Can anyone help me with the Asus M2N8-VMX MB and OpenSolaris please ?
[10:03:11] <edwardocallaghan> Well I don't know much about it, all I know is that my XVR-500 fb or what ever it was called was not supported because the SPARC/Xorg team is doing.. ???
[10:03:41] <Atomdrache> So is it not possible to use an Elite3D card in SXCE, or what?
[10:03:56] <e^ipi> Atomdrache: in conclusion, talk to alanc
[10:04:03] <Atomdrache> Who's that?
[10:04:09] <edwardocallaghan> I think that older cards are supported though
[10:04:10] <e^ipi> that would be alanc
[10:04:20] <e^ipi> he hangs out here
[10:04:23] <Atomdrache> Oh.
[10:04:32] <e^ipi> he's on the X team
[10:05:24] <Atomdrache> Basically I took an Elite3D card out of the closet and plugged it in, to free up a video adapter.  OBP has no problem with it, but when I tell it to boot, it says it can't find the framebuffer driver.  I'm still hoping I can find SUNWafb somewhere on the internet and just pkgadd it.
[10:05:40] <Atomdrache> (no luck on that so far)
[10:05:55] <Atomdrache> (also, the docs.sun.com site is doing what you would expect it to)
[10:06:12] <Doc> and what is that?
[10:06:30] <Atomdrache> Not load.
[10:07:36] <Atomdrache> Well it worked that time.
[10:08:36] <Atomdrache> Let's see if it works again.
[10:09:41] <edwardocallaghan> docs.sun.com has always worked for me, lots of people seem to complain about it and sunsolve for some reason ?
[10:10:24] <trygvis> it's just that it is shit slow
[10:10:59] * trygvis . o O ( sun should move the server to some AMD hardware )
[10:11:04] <e^ipi> yet dlc is quite fast
[10:11:27] <edwardocallaghan> hey trygvis
[10:11:38] <edwardocallaghan> Doc:did not see you there
[10:11:57] <Doc> i wasnt there
[10:12:01] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[10:12:15] <edwardocallaghan> Asus M2N8-VMX MB and OpenSolaris - seems slow
[10:12:32] <edwardocallaghan> I have all the needed output to debug
[10:12:53] <edwardocallaghan> also the NIC does not work :p
[10:13:21] <edwardocallaghan> having so many problems with OpenSolaris and NIC's
[10:13:46] <edwardocallaghan> Its kind of getting anoying :p
[10:14:16] <edwardocallaghan> Anyway is there anyone who I can email the tar to will all the needed output ?
[10:14:24] <bda> Buy Intels.
[10:14:37] * quasi *swears* at sun for making pam logins dependent on nspr
[10:14:53] <edwardocallaghan> Intel :p
[10:15:00] * quasi *swears* at self for missing that and bricking a machine
[10:15:27] <edwardocallaghan> I like my Sun Blade in England but I could not aford to buy much here as a student
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[10:16:07] <tru_tru> edwardocallaghan: try  http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/opensolaris-help
[10:16:08] <edwardocallaghan> I got a alright setup for the money here
[10:16:23] <quasi> edwardocallaghan: for a cheap alternative, look at http://www.unixzone.dk/unix/category/sun/solaris/solaris-10/ - somewhere don that list he's got a test of a very cheap pci gbit nic
[10:16:52] <edwardocallaghan> no I got a Reltk one that works fine
[10:17:14] <edwardocallaghan> But my main problem is the MB seems slower then it should be ?
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[10:21:53] <timsf> Morning everyone
[10:22:25] <seanmcg> Morning tim
[10:22:38] <seanmcg> edwardocallaghan: define slower ;-)
[10:23:07] <e^ipi> why is it that nobody seems to know how to netboot IBM POWER hardware?
[10:26:39] <edwardocallaghan> tru_tru:I dont' really want to use a mailling list because my inbox fills too quick as I am not always online
[10:30:48] <damienc> edwardocallaghan: you can post to the list and not get emails - get an opensolaris.org account and use web interface to post.
[10:34:41] <seanmcg> or get a gmail a/c
[10:34:58] <edwardocallaghan> I got both a gmail and a opensolaris a/c
[10:35:13] <edwardocallaghan> I am just trying to remeber it all
[10:35:53] <edwardocallaghan> damienc:What is this web interface ?
[10:37:40] <damienc> edwardocallaghan: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/networking/
[10:38:02] <damienc> I don't see a 'opensolaris-help' project but something in the Networking area might be useful.
[10:38:30] <damienc> actually, here is the discussion page: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=3
[10:38:58] <timsf> There is an opensolaris-help mailing list..
[10:39:14] <damienc> but he doesn't want to subscribe to a ml.
[10:39:16] <kaiwai> coffman: they want to see 'more marketshare' for Solaris?
[10:39:35] <timsf> right, but isn't there a forum to back that mailing list ?
[10:39:53] <damienc> yes, there should be. Let me look.
[10:40:26] <timsf> Bingo - http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=31
[10:40:29] <damienc> opensolaris-help http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=31
[10:40:39] <damienc> yup
[10:42:03] <edwardocallaghan> If I post with my gmail, will it auto show up there ?
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[10:50:11] <Atomdrache> Would anybody in here happen to have copies of SUNWafb, SUNWafbr, SUNWafbw around?
[10:50:38] <Atomdrache> (there are a few others, but they tend to occur together)
[10:51:17] <Atomdrache> Because it doesn't look like one can download them from Sun anymore (if I'm wrong, I'd like a URL)
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[11:01:54] <edwardocallaghan> Atomdrache:just poking my head for a idea but have you looked on Blastwave ?
[11:02:34] <Atomdrache> i.e. blastwave.org/packages.php?
[11:03:50] <edwardocallaghan> ? Edward shurgs
[11:04:28] <edwardocallaghan> :%s/shurgs/shrugs/
[11:04:30] <damienc> edwardocallaghan: what do you mean, "If I post with my gmail"
[11:05:15] <Atomdrache> I have my douts they carry drivers.
[11:05:28] <Atomdrache> Hmm...well, they have printer drivers.
[11:05:41] <edwardocallaghan> Sorry, if I send a post my SMTP to the mailing list will it pop up on that fourm automaticly ?
[11:06:07] <edwardocallaghan> Atomdrache:Only poking for a idea
[11:06:33] <Atomdrache> It looks like there just isn't any way to get them for SXCE, at this point.
[11:06:55] <Atomdrache> It's kind of an old package.  Sun has no place to download it, and you can only find it on discs for, like, Solaris 8-10.
[11:07:03] <Atomdrache> As far as I can tell, anyway.
[11:07:07] <palowoda> Ah the good old days.
[11:07:26] <Atomdrache> So unless somebody's got SUNWafb sitting on their hard drive and can send it with DCC, I probably will just have to use the Raptor on board.
[11:07:27] <edwardocallaghan> Can you not just rip it off a disc then ?
[11:07:34] <Atomdrache> A disc I don't have,yes.
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[11:08:05] <edwardocallaghan> hmm, ebay or ask for people who have the disc around here ?
[11:08:17] <edwardocallaghan> or torrent
[11:08:24] <Atomdrache> I also don't know that the driver would work in SXCE.
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[11:08:52] <palowoda> Why would opensolaris developers care about old hardware?
[11:09:14] <Atomdrache> I'm trying to determine just how much they do, at this point.
[11:09:23] <palowoda> Not much.
[11:09:38] <palowoda> People like to think they do.
[11:09:45] <Atomdrache> Seems like Elite3d is supported, though.
[11:10:00] <Atomdrache> Would that sort of thing be detected and installed while installing Solaris?
[11:10:17] <palowoda> Yes but Xsun is on it's own now.
[11:10:20] <Atomdrache> Because if that's the case, it might be on the SXCE install disk.
[11:10:35] <Atomdrache> SXCE wouldn't install drivers for cards that weren't inserted, would it?
[11:10:56] <Atomdrache> Graphics cards anyway.
[11:10:59] <kaiwai> Atomdrache: IIRC everything is installed - all drivers
[11:11:14] <Atomdrache> Oh.  Well if that's the case I may be genuinely boned on that front.
[11:11:23] <palowoda> How did you do that?
[11:11:28] <Atomdrache> Do what?
[11:11:39] <palowoda> Not install it?
[11:11:47] <Atomdrache> It was sitting in an anti-static bag on a shelf.
[11:12:00] <kaiwai> that was rather foolish
[11:12:05] <Atomdrache> Wasn't needed at the time.
[11:12:14] <palowoda> It still loads.
[11:12:15] <Atomdrache> I just decided it might be nice to free up a video display adapter.
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[11:12:59] <Atomdrache> By installing a card with a 13W3 port.  But if it's going to be stubborn like that I may as well just get a second 13W3-VGA adapter.
[11:13:31] <Atomdrache> I'm just a bit surprised that it hasn't got drivers for Elite3D cards.  Those were very common in Ultras.
[11:13:36] <damienc> edwardocallaghan: I don't know about SMTP. I know posting via the web interface works.
[11:13:55] <Atomdrache> Shipped with them, even.
[11:14:10] <palowoda> And still people are using U2's with nevada builds.
[11:14:23] <Atomdrache> Should they not?
[11:14:35] <palowoda> Well people in pain.
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[11:17:38] <Atomdrache> So where are the drivers at?
[11:17:47] <Atomdrache> In Solaris, that is.
[11:17:51] <palowoda> man afb
[11:20:10] <Atomdrache> Man pages are there,
[11:20:13] <Atomdrache> but afbconfig isn't.
[11:20:32] <palowoda> should have loaded.
[11:20:35] <Atomdrache> Are you sure it would be loaded during the Solaris install if a different graphics card were plugged in?
[11:20:42] <Atomdrache> Because it's not there.
[11:20:51] <palowoda> Don't see why not.
[11:21:09] <palowoda> Unless they where EOL'ed.
[11:21:22] <Atomdrache> If they were EOL'ed and aren't supported, why are there man pages for it?
[11:21:31] <palowoda> exactly
[11:21:56] <Atomdrache> I also saw something about a bug with an Elite3D card in SXCE on Sunsolve or some such place, suggesting that people use them with SXCE.
[11:22:04] <Atomdrache> So I'm going to try looking around on the CD-R.
[11:22:27] <edwardocallaghan> Can you bootstrape with BFU ?
[11:22:42] <Atomdrache> With what?
[11:23:42] <Atomdrache> Eww.  That didn't work.
[11:24:36] <edwardocallaghan> What I mean is what is the min you need to boot a SunOS kernel and a shell ?
[11:25:05] <Atomdrache> I dont' know.
[11:25:28] <Atomdrache> But screw this, I'll just use the Raptor card and get another 13W3-VGA adapter for the Blade 100.
[11:26:11] <timsf> edwardocallaghan might be worth trying a minimal install and see if you can strip it down any further.
[11:26:38] <Atomdrache> To give a more relevant answer,
[11:27:00] <Atomdrache> an install disk and boot cdrom -s should give you a shell.
[11:27:15] <Atomdrache> I can't think of anything more minimal than that.
[11:27:39] <Atomdrache> (if you've got a Sparc, that is)
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[11:28:01] <Atomdrache> For x86, a liveCD would do the same thing.
[11:28:23] <timsf> solaris_1.iso is bootable too, and gives you an option for a shell.
[11:28:42] <Fish> hello
[11:28:44] <timsf> If you want something on your hard disk, then install the "Reduced Networking Group" - ~ 300mb afaik.
[11:28:51] <edwardocallaghan> Well I was thinking of building a OpenSolaris type distro for myself on a LiveUSB pen dirve
[11:29:01] <timsf> You want the LiveMedia project
[11:29:03] * timsf digs
[11:29:22] <timsf> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/livemedia/
[11:29:39] <damienc> edwardocallaghan: an intern in Dublin made a bootable OpenSolaris USB pen drive.
[11:29:53] <edwardocallaghan> Conpleate strip down and build a OpenBSD tpye distro with nmap and such
[11:29:56] <timsf> using the above, wasn't it ?
[11:29:57] <Atomdrache> Amusing.
[11:30:15] <edwardocallaghan> damienc:Hmm well I am Irish ;)
[11:30:42] <edwardocallaghan> timsf:Thanks I know of it
[11:30:43] <damienc> the intern is Polish ;)
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[11:31:30] <palowoda> edward: http://blogs.sun.com/PotstickerGuru/entry/giving_usb_the_boot_install
[11:34:18] <edwardocallaghan> Off topic, does anyone here have a OpenMoko yet ?
[11:34:41] <palowoda> Is it important?
[11:35:03] <edwardocallaghan> ? just a yes/no question
[11:35:29] <palowoda> no
[11:35:36] <edwardocallaghan> oh
[11:35:52] <palowoda> I was expecting a thesis.
[11:36:05] <palowoda> :)
[11:36:43] <edwardocallaghan> also, anyone know how to hide a running window in XP ? I don't want anyone to close my SDM of SXCE in the lib here
[11:37:10] <edwardocallaghan> palowoda:www.openmoko.com if your interested
[11:37:15] <Pietro_S> minimalize it?
[11:37:41] <edwardocallaghan> I know that I mean hide it ?
[11:37:52] <palowoda> Oh icons for cell phones.  I have lots of them.
[11:38:05] <bda> http://www.dreamhost.com/images/rewards/468x60-b.gif # O_o
[11:40:06] <edwardocallaghan> bda:what the?
[11:40:16] <Gman> timsf, are you planning on making tonights user group live?
[11:43:14] <timsf> Don't have a conf call number - do you know of anyone who'd likely dial in ?
[11:43:29] <timsf>  (given that we're in a Sun building though, I guess we could do that)
[11:44:38] <edwardocallaghan> het Gman
[11:44:45] <edwardocallaghan> hey
[11:44:52] <bda> edwardocallaghan: They're nuts.
[11:44:53] <edwardocallaghan> this kb is truly crap
[11:45:00] <Gman> hi edvil
[11:45:09] <Gman> timsf, dunno, but i have a dial in number if needed
[11:45:28] <Tpenta> speaking of your dialin number glynn ;)
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[11:45:43] <timsf> Yeah, maths.tcd.ie thinks we're pirates!
[11:45:58] <Gman> yes
[11:46:15] <Tpenta> you've got it then?
[11:46:21] <timsf> pop it up on mediacast.sun.com or somewhere :-)
[11:46:22] <Gman> http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~gfoster/sosug-user-group-talk.bk
[11:46:29] <timsf> heh.
[11:46:30] <Gman> rename to mp3 after
[11:46:44] <edwardocallaghan> hey Tpenta
[11:46:49] <timsf> Arrr, pieces of eight
[11:46:50] <timeless> linux-nat.c:1026: internal-error: linux_nat_attach: Assertion `pid == GET_PID (inferior_ptid) && WIFSTOPPED (status) && WSTOPSIG (status) == SIGSTOP' failed.
[11:46:53] <timeless> A problem internal to GDB has been detected,
[11:47:08] * timeless wonders if this is opensolaris zones or gdb
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[11:48:15] <palowoda> iptables in brandz?
[11:48:18] <timeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdb/+bug/78875, guess it's a general gdb bug probably caused by zones :)
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[11:50:25] <solar_sea> Hello, i'm using nexenta and it seems to loop endlessly when auto-configuring one network interface. is there a way I can disable this from grub for example ?
[11:50:44] <Gman> timsf, hrm, maths is pretty slow :(
[11:51:35] <palowoda> Might be able to turn of your ethernet in bios.  Depending on your hardware.
[11:51:38] <timsf> Got it just now - starting to listen now ( just so I can start thinking about hard questions for later on !)
[11:52:52] <solar_sea> palowoda, I need that exact interface to connect to the net afterwards
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[11:53:30] <palowoda> Hmm is this just a Nexenta bug, does Belenix work?
[11:54:11] <timeless> anyone here have zones+centos?
[11:54:22] <solar_sea> as far as I remember belenix started as a live cd, but I haven't tweaked any networking with it
[11:54:31] <edwardocallaghan> ok see ya alll
[11:54:52] <palowoda> Well what network card are you using that is hanging?
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[11:56:56] <solar_sea> realtek,  Identified 8139 chip type 'RTL-8100B/8139D', integrated on my motherboard
[11:57:29] <timeless> hrm, gdb isn't entirely broken in nexenta (zoned),
[11:57:38] <palowoda> Hmm that seems to work in Solaris Express, and Belenix so this is something specefic with Nexenta.
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[12:01:19] <Gman> timsf, swine! i imagine it'll ruin tonight for you :)
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[12:02:14] <timsf> Heh, don't worry about it! Have heard about indiana 3 times at this stage, but telling everyone else would be great
[12:02:35] <Tpenta> thanks glynn
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[12:03:51] <Gman> timsf, obviously any feedback you have prior to tonight on what i should be covering would be welcom
[12:03:52] <Gman> e
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[12:04:02] <trochej> Hmm
[12:04:27] <trochej> I broke my mail server, so i'll say what I wanted to post to indiana discuss a propos wish list and target audience
[12:04:31] <trochej> I am a
[12:04:36] <trochej> I am a Linux user since 1998
[12:04:38] <trochej> or 1997
[12:05:02] <trochej> And actually, when it comes to me, I don't need any familiarity gap or something like that bridget
[12:05:10] <trochej> And a propos sudo discussion
[12:05:36] <trochej> Most big distros are trying to achieve with SELinux/grsec/rsbac what solaris has in achieved with RBAC
[12:06:06] <trochej> So it actually could be advertised as an achievement
[12:06:45] <trochej> And, honestly, big success of ubuntu isn't it's community and fantastic desktop. Fantastic desktop is MAC os X and ubuntu community is realy afterproduct of it's success
[12:07:17] <trochej> The real big difference is a book targeted at less tech savvy users
[12:07:24] <trochej> ubuntuguide.org is another
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[12:07:37] <trochej> And sponsorship from Canonical
[12:07:43] <trochej> Ubuntu has cost a lot of money
[12:07:54] <trochej> Really eye catching site
[12:08:10] <trochej> What PR people would call image
[12:08:19] * trochej hides again under his rock
[12:08:37] <palowoda> Impressive
[12:08:38] <trochej> Oh, one more thing
[12:09:02] <trochej> For Windows users that came to Linux Solaris and Linux are the same alien things
[12:09:05] <trochej> Aaand
[12:09:17] <trochej> Monst of them don't know and don't care for what's under the hood
[12:09:20] <trochej> They want gui tools
[12:09:37] <trochej> I'm using SXCE as my main desktop system
[12:09:42] <trochej> For half a year now?
[12:10:25] <trochej> What I really miss is a vast amount of packages that Fedora/Ubuntu have
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[12:10:34] <trochej> And that is a problem of time and resources
[12:10:43] <palowoda> and world peace
[12:10:55] <trochej> But yes, I believe that a package repository in style of debian/fedora would be another big thing
[12:11:02] <trochej> palowoda: Yes, that too
[12:11:05] <trochej> And a rise for me :)
[12:11:19] <trochej> palowoda: I understand, but all of this is possible to overcome
[12:11:46] <trochej> The familiarity gap or however it's called is in my eyes a wrong target.
[12:12:01] <trochej> People like me that are willing to peek under the hood are familiar with man
[12:12:08] <trochej> And will visit docs.sun.com
[12:12:13] <trochej> And bigadmin and whatever
[12:12:27] <damienc> http://pkgbuild.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pkgbuild/spec-files-extra/trunk/
[12:12:48] <damienc> spec-files-extra is a repository of spec files that can be used to build packages.
[12:12:55] <trochej> So they are willing to learn, if they are willing to switch
[12:13:26] <damienc> we have >400 modules there. While not as easy as a debian/blastwave package repository, it's a start.
[12:13:54] <trochej> damienc: Yes, but I believe more in something like repository for debian
[12:14:04] <trochej> damienc: It is a start
[12:14:11] <trochej> But what is needed is something as simple
[12:14:22] <damienc> I, and many others, totally agree.
[12:14:32] <trochej> I know
[12:15:05] <trochej> I just wanted to give an insight of the targeted audience, for being a linux user, I felt I might say what I woudl expect :)
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[12:15:09] <trochej> Or something
[12:15:11] <Pietro_S> simple and easy for porters
[12:15:22] <trochej> And guinness
[12:15:49] <damienc> hehe
[12:15:54] <trochej> :)
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[12:16:25] <damienc> trochej: We are hoping that the Indiana project provides the tools to allow the creation of a debian-like repository.
[12:16:30] <Pietro_S> gor gui, there is JPack it should be able to gui-zied blastwave, SFE and svr4 packages
[12:16:37] <trochej> And since we're completeley in the stars, stickers Indiana Capable for hardware would be sweet :)
[12:17:00] <trochej> Pietro_S: I know, and I really like the project
[12:17:09] <damienc> trochej: people in Sun are passionate about OpenSolaris and getting it adopted by Linux users.
[12:17:22] <trochej> damienc: I know that too, I read lists :)
[12:17:27] <damienc> cool
[12:17:42] <damienc> Pietro_S: JPack was written by a guy here in Dublin.
[12:17:47] <trochej> But I believe that since Ian showed up the obsession with this familiarity gap is actually hurting
[12:18:09] <trochej> If you want somethnig familiar, just copy Linux/Windows/Mac OS X
[12:18:11] * quasi would really wish that less energy was spent on bending over backwards to lure in a linux desktop luser or two
[12:19:02] <trochej> But I believe that OpenSolaris now has a personality of sort and should stick to it.
[12:19:49] <renihs> ian from debian you mean?
[12:19:58] <renihs> s/?/?
[12:20:11] <damienc> yes
[12:22:20] <trochej> Also, another thing. Being completely open source won't help. Again to Ubuntu. Wider adoption started, when they begun distributing closed source drivers.
[12:22:23] <trochej> Drivers, people.
[12:22:32] <trochej> Poeple just want their hardware to work
[12:22:48] <trochej> And most people wont bother with checking hcl
[12:22:49] <trochej> Sorry
[12:22:57] <oxygene> trochej: in that case: windows
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[12:23:47] <trochej> oxygene: Actually many people move from Windows to Ubuntu and stay, because hardware just works.
[12:23:51] <trochej> oxygene: the problem is
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[12:23:56] <trochej> If you want wide adoption
[12:24:01] <trochej> You want these users
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[12:25:05] <trochej> Because only whet such users started migrating to Non windows systems, journalists, managers and such started to perceive there oses as a mature products
[12:25:56] <damienc> we are targetting developers so that a selection of apps available on OpenSolaris is attractive.
[12:26:25] <oxygene> trochej: after hardware works they start pestering #winehq why WoW doesn't run - so: "windows"
[12:26:39] <trochej> damienc: okay, so then you don't need to close this "gap" that takes majority of threads on indiana discuss
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[12:26:58] <trochej> oxygene: Well, sorry, this is the fate of second not the first
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[12:27:43] <trochej> damienc: Deveopers are people smart enough to choose OS based on other merits that unfamiliar switches to ifconfig command
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[12:27:53] <oxygene> trochej: *shrug* it wasn't me who wants to please a crowd that's never pleased using promises that can't be held
[12:27:59] <trochej> oxygene: :)
[12:28:07] <aruiz> timsf, ping?
[12:28:18] <timsf> Yo aruiz
[12:28:24] <aruiz> hey timsf
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[12:28:57] <trochej> And here is question from me: why don't indiana just ask, what their target audience would like to see in Indiana?
[12:29:06] <oxygene> trochej: and that's approximately what indiana is about - ruining the ecosystem for every other distro project at least until the dust settled as a side effect
[12:29:37] <trochej> oxygene: Actually, the perfect opensolaris distro is SXCE :)
[12:29:42] <timsf> trochej, the problem is asking the target audience might not be productive  - they'll just go "we want linux"
[12:29:43] <trochej> For me, of course
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[12:30:02] <trochej> timsf: then indiana is futile
[12:30:09] <timsf> Not so
[12:30:32] <timsf> building something that's sufficiently attractive, might make them reconsider their inital approach to OpenSolaris.
[12:30:35] <trochej> Because you'll never please theese people, unless you absolutely rip put nongnu tools and replace everything but kernel with GNU and GNOME
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[12:30:55] <trochej> timsf: SXCE IS SUFFICIENTLY ATTRACTIVE RIGHT NOW
[12:30:58] <trochej> And sory for caps
[12:31:03] <Gman> no it's not
[12:31:05] <trochej> okay
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[12:31:15] <trochej> I am a Linux guy here and you are the indiana guys here
[12:31:16] <Gman> it's 6 cd's, private release process
[12:31:30] <trochej> Just like fedora, might I say?
[12:31:37] <trochej> Even Slackware moved to DVD
[12:31:50] <palowoda> So did opensuse.
[12:31:53] <trochej> It's XIX century
[12:32:00] <trochej> don't reinvent the weel, guys
[12:32:08] <trochej> wheel
[12:32:11] <trochej> sorry
[12:32:16] <oxygene> XXI, too ;)
[12:32:21] <trochej> yes
[12:32:23] <trochej> sory for that too
[12:32:42] <palowoda> It's all about reinventing the Solaris Express release process.
[12:33:03] <oxygene> palowoda: last I read about indiana, it was also about wlan drivers...
[12:33:21] <purserj> ah the XIX century, when linux was released on wax drums and we were happy for it!
[12:33:31] <trochej> purserj: :)
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[12:34:01] <trochej> Sorry
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[12:34:55] <trochej> I don't really see coherence here. If you want to target developers, then laeve userland intact, take what is missing from other sources and market it
[12:35:41] <trochej> OpenSolaris needs a social campain
[12:35:44] <trochej> Marketing
[12:35:50] <trochej> Advertisement
[12:37:13] <trochej> You're on the best way to produce something that will get forgotten, because when you finally agree on what your target audience is, other open operating systems with be far ahead in positioning their products
[12:37:25] <oxygene> who is "you"?
[12:37:32] <trochej> Indiana guys here?
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[12:37:42] <renihs> trochej, in my opinion opensolaris is too late, that should have been done in 1995 or like and linux never would have existed
[12:38:01] <oxygene> uhm.. I think proposing that indiana will "produce something" is slightly too optimistic at this point
[12:38:05] <renihs> i dont think that it can grow massive now in short time
[12:38:12] <trochej> renihs: They can do this, but not without big money behind advertising.
[12:38:21] <trochej> Not in short time, but still can
[12:38:23] <renihs> advertising is overrated
[12:38:38] <trochej> not really
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[12:38:46] <renihs> the key-persons dont care about advertisment
[12:38:51] <trochej> renihs: MS and win 95 won because of advertising
[12:38:58] <renihs> and the 0815 dont really count to initiate a mass dev
[12:39:11] <renihs> trochej, i dont agree on that
[12:39:14] <renihs> but might be true
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[12:39:34] <palowoda> What time limits are we talking about here?
[12:39:50] <trochej> renihs: Everyone got their free discette with demo of Menu start
[12:39:55] <oxygene> trochej: define success - would broad use of osol on dsl routers constitute success for you?
[12:40:17] <trochej> purserj: No time limits, actually, but everyone knows that the longer it takes, more difficult it will be
[12:40:32] <renihs> thats even exponential :p
[12:40:52] <trochej> oxygene: Not really, success is a consciousness of the product in minds of average computer user
[12:41:04] <oxygene> trochej: in this case, linux doesn't matter
[12:41:08] <trochej> Because only then operating system can go futher and survive
[12:41:21] <trochej> oxygene: It does. Almost everyone have heard about linux
[12:41:24] <renihs> oxygene, lol :p
[12:41:31] <renihs> you think linux runs on dsl routers only?
[12:41:33] <renihs> :p
[12:41:38] <trochej> In Europe I bet al;most a half of users tried it
[12:41:44] <trochej> Some of them decided to stay
[12:41:49] <oxygene> trochej: same as everyone heard about martians - "might exist", maybe some blurry picture of it, but that's it
[12:41:52] <renihs> i recently deployed 80 linux desktops :p
[12:42:08] <renihs> oxygene, ??? whats the relation of that to anything?
[12:42:13] <trochej> oxygene: Desktop is your way to managers and maganers is your way to adoption
[12:42:35] <trochej> oxygene: If user has a Windows machine at work, because manager decided so, they will have windows machine at home
[12:42:51] <oxygene> renihs: the average computer user might have heard of linux, but it's similar abstract to most of them as martians
[12:43:22] <trochej> oxygene: Yes, but many of them have got ShipIt ubuntu or some magazine with DVD/CD
[12:43:25] <trochej> And they installed
[12:43:32] <trochej> And tried, and some of them decided to stay
[12:43:54] <renihs> i doubt alot people that try ubuntu stay there :p
[12:44:03] <oxygene> I doubt that many people try it
[12:44:22] <renihs> schools/universities have/are massivle switching here
[12:44:22] <oxygene> and I doubt that "most average computer users" buy magazines that provide linux installers
[12:44:23] <trochej> renihs: I don't
[12:44:28] <trochej> renihs: I support a lost of them locally
[12:44:32] <trochej> s/lost/lot/
[12:44:35] <trochej> Okay
[12:44:41] <renihs> dunno, i dislike ubuntu strongly :p
[12:44:48] <renihs> but thats my personal opinion
[12:44:54] <renihs> if thats even english :p
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[12:45:17] <trochej> renihs: Doesn't change a fact that the biggest computer users group love it - windows users
[12:45:32] <renihs> i havent met anyone who liked it tbh
[12:45:43] <renihs> its complicated, its tricky, most things that should work simply dont
[12:45:50] <renihs> and it wouldnt have to be that way
[12:45:59] <trochej> renihs: Actually, SOA#1
[12:46:01] <trochej> :)
[12:46:04] <renihs> soa?
[12:46:19] <renihs> SOA#1? :p
[12:46:26] <trochej> Standard Operator Answer numer 1: Works for me.
[12:46:27] <renihs> dont mess my brain with strange abbrevations
[12:46:28] <oxygene> the small subgroup of windows users that actually tried "that leenucks thing" might like ubuntu - but why try, when it doesn't run sims or WoW and the windows copy came free with their computer?
[12:46:42] <renihs> it does run wow?
[12:46:48] <oxygene> (oh, and word and excel do not work there either)
[12:46:51] <renihs> also run
[12:46:54] <oxygene> marginally
[12:46:56] <renihs> crossover office/wine
[12:46:57] <renihs> lol?
[12:47:01] <renihs> full
[12:47:05] <oxygene> not part of the "free" package
[12:47:09] <trochej> oxygene: For desktop work? I replaced desktop computers with some wine magick and Ubuntu
[12:47:14] <aruiz> is it normal that the installer dialog to choose the installation method takes like 15 minutes to start?
[12:47:15] <renihs> free??? doesnt need to be free
[12:47:16] <trochej> Now they are happy
[12:47:21] <renihs> crossover costs like 30 $
[12:47:21] * bda fires Debian 4.0 into the sun.
[12:47:22] <oxygene> and if they have to pay, they can just as well stick to their "free" windows
[12:47:25] <renihs> and is well supported
[12:47:45] <renihs> oxygene, no, it offers more advantages than just that
[12:47:56] <renihs> not talking about virus/trojan problems yet
[12:48:01] <trochej> Okay, I just want to tell you, that when I read about plans for Indiana so far, I'm gonna stick to sxce
[12:48:09] <renihs> which plans?
[12:48:13] <renihs> what did i miss :p
[12:48:17] <trochej> renihs: misty at best
[12:48:20] <trochej> okay
[12:48:26] <trochej> Time to get some work done
[12:48:29] <renihs> misty?
[12:48:33] <renihs> indianan?
[12:48:35] <renihs> me is lost :p
[12:49:01] <renihs> trochej, you like to jump subjects ey? :p
[12:50:31] <trochej> renihs: Nope
[12:50:35] <trochej> renihs: I see a connection here
[12:50:38] <trochej> :)
[12:50:43] <trochej> Okay, enough of this
[12:50:50] <trochej> I said what I wanted to say
[12:51:05] <oxygene> renihs: most of the advantages the linux crowd advertise mean next to nothing to the average computer user. and losing the automatic flash10 install once you run into such a beast on a website is scary enough for lots of them to not even bother
[12:51:31] <oxygene> renihs: the one exception I see is administrated systems (eg. at work)
[12:53:05] <Cyrille> there's also the issue of all the toys (mobile, ipod, camera, adsl modem, whatever) not necessarily being provided with painless linux setup procedures (if there's one).
[12:53:06] <renihs> dunno, i see the following advantages
[12:53:18] <renihs> i can boot my livedvd (with my /home on usb stick) *ANYWHERE*
[12:53:21] <renihs> i dont need to install
[12:53:24] <renihs> hardware just works
[12:53:38] <renihs> everything just works without me having to think about drivers or crap for a second
[12:53:47] <purserj> most average computer users are like my father in law
[12:53:56] <renihs> windows seems (to be), complicated, bugged, difficult, unclear
[12:54:00] <renihs> to be= to me
[12:54:01] * purserj sighs, remember to scroll down before talking
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[12:54:23] <renihs> i can plug in a camera, a tv-card whatever ...
[12:54:31] <rasputnik> morning all
[12:54:34] <renihs> under windoz...i need to *find* a matching driver and crap
[12:54:46] <renihs> but dunno, havent touched windows since win2k
[12:54:50] <renihs> maybe it improved
[12:55:07] <renihs> (not vista though) :p
[12:55:18] <oxygene> renihs: the difference is, for windows, you _will_ find a matching driver
[12:55:31] <trochej> oxygene: Wrong.
[12:55:33] <renihs> oxygene, i havent found a single piece of hardware that works
[12:55:34] <Cyrille> nowadays you get a cd with most devices which has an autorun which installs the driver and some bloated support application and whatnot.
[12:55:37] <renihs> that doesnt work
[12:55:47] <oxygene> Cyrille: yep
[12:55:47] <trochej> oxygene: For much older hardware support stopped at windows 2000
[12:55:58] <trochej> And that not always want to work with XP/Vista
[12:55:59] <renihs> and i booted my livedvd (project of the european molecular network) on more than ...300 different computers on the world
[12:56:06] <renihs> including very strange and highend setups
[12:56:06] <Cyrille> I'm not saying it's better, because you usually end up with a tray that's bigger than the task bar supports ;-) but it just works.
[12:56:08] <oxygene> trochej: the average computer user isn't doing computer archaeology
[12:56:28] <trochej> oxygene: In Poland? Ih yes, they do
[12:56:31] <renihs> oxygene, i dont see a reason why i have to search the net to try 3 drivers which break my windows so i can re-install
[12:56:38] <renihs> or like
[12:56:39] <trochej> And it's about 15 million people that own computers
[12:56:42] <trochej> so
[12:56:45] <trochej> Do the math
[12:56:53] <trochej> I go to fetch some coffe and do seme work
[12:56:56] <renihs> and no, i didnt find drivers for specific sigmatel audio cards for windows (just works under linux)
[12:56:56] <oxygene> renihs: that part (non-matching drivers) has improved a lot
[12:56:57] <Cyrille> the average user gets the computer as a black box with an os which supports all the currently installed hardware, and it doesn't change in the lifetime of the computer.
[12:57:05] <renihs> oxygene, not on vista
[12:57:17] <renihs> i only know 1 vista (macbook pro of my boss)
[12:57:25] <renihs> NEVER i have seen so many bsods
[12:57:29] <oxygene> renihs: sorry, macbooks are hardly PCs
[12:57:34] <renihs> erm?
[12:57:40] <renihs> macbook pro, intel coreduo?
[12:57:42] <renihs> is pc
[12:57:52] <oxygene> sun 386i wasn't a pc either
[12:57:53] <renihs> hardware standard, ati card, sigmatel audio, seagate disc
[12:57:54] <Cyrille> that's weird, because since some time now, windows is configured not to give bsods any more (it just reboots instead)
[12:57:58] <renihs> whats not pc about that?
[12:58:30] <renihs> Cyrille, i have random bsods on win32k.dll and irq not less or equal (i suspect the ati card)
[12:58:43] <renihs> on the macbook pro vista (business)
[12:58:44] <oxygene> renihs: bios, various special hardware - if you installed bootcamp properly, with an OS supported by it (ie. XP), you shouldn't have problems
[12:58:53] <renihs> oxygene, i did that
[12:59:00] <renihs> and all following bootcamps
[12:59:03] <oxygene> renihs: dito - worked just fine
[12:59:06] <renihs> always blue screens on random
[12:59:20] <renihs> may work a week fine
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[12:59:29] <renihs> might need 5x boots to NOT bluescreen sometimes
[12:59:30] <oxygene> works fine since february
[12:59:38] <oxygene> boots reliably
[12:59:42] <oxygene> about 20 machines
[12:59:50] <renihs> ya i want to reinstall with lates bootcamp only
[12:59:54] <renihs> but my boss doesnt want to
[13:00:06] <renihs> so i guess i will have to live with the bsods without knowing why
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[13:11:51] <timsf> aruiz, damn, thought I'd replied to that mail - evolution being a bastard again, sorry
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[13:21:25] <aruiz> timsf, =)
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[14:07:54] <aruiz> timsf, check it out
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[14:11:03] <timsf> Thanks, just mailing
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[14:15:59] <p-a-venk> i'm trying to download the CD images of nevada Build 68 through wget.  But wget quits with an error saying filename is too long
[14:16:25] <trygvis> try specifying what wget should call the output file with -O
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[14:24:48] <p-a-venk> trygvis: now that long filename error is gone, but gives error 403: forbidden. does this mean i must pass wget my SDLC username and password?
[14:26:33] <trygvis> hm, I don't think you have to, but make sure wget is using the correct url
[14:26:46] <trygvis> make sure you quote the url: wget -O foo.iso "http://..."
[14:28:26] <p-a-venk> i was giving the right url, but i passed it --user=user and --password=password and it is downloading fine :) thanks for the help
[14:29:42] * timsf is in awe of aruiz's GIMP skills
[14:29:49] <aruiz> :P
[14:29:52] <aruiz> timeless, do you like it?
[14:30:09] <aruiz> timsf, anyway, it's done on inkscape ;-)
[14:31:55] <timsf> s/GIMP/vector art/ :-D
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[14:32:37] <aruiz> :)
[14:32:54] <aruiz> timsf, if you want, you can go upstairs and check some t-shirt art that I've done for guadec ;-)
[14:32:57] <Gman> aruiz, you have solaris packages of inkscape? :)
[14:33:03] <aruiz> Gman, nope :/
[14:33:09] <Gman> damn, just checking :)
[14:33:13] * Gman badly wants it
[14:33:14] <aruiz> Gman, I've been talking with laca about gtkmm
[14:33:23] <aruiz> Gman, we need to tweak the gtkmm specfile
[14:33:32] <Gman> just do it [tm]]
[14:33:44] <aruiz> Gman, I'll do
[14:33:57] <aruiz> Gman, but I've been busy the latest weeks with some apoc love
[14:33:59] <aruiz> :)
[14:34:08] <leal_> somebody can help with sc 32?
[14:34:50] <Gman> aruiz, where are you sitting?
[14:35:00] <aruiz> Gman, do you know karl's seat?
[14:35:13] <Gman> yes
[14:35:16] <aruiz> Gman, on the other side, on the corridor side
[14:35:18] <aruiz> :)
[14:35:20] <Gman> ok
[14:35:30] <damienc> where Shane used to sit
[14:35:45] <Gman> ok
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[14:37:27] <berny> ho, the whole desktop team united? :-)
[14:37:40] <berny> hope they don't drop a plane on you all now :-)
[14:38:53] <Cyrille> fortunately the "whole desktop team" is not just three guys ;-)
[14:39:23] <berny> oh yeah where is laca? :-)
[14:39:30] <Gman> berny, heh
[14:39:39] <Gman> it's nice to be back and say hi
[14:40:08] <aruiz> timsf, mmm... I don't quite understand what do you want me to do with the "podcast" font
[14:40:09] <aruiz> :)
[14:40:10] <berny> and have a beer? ;-)
[14:40:20] <berny> how did the gin story end?
[14:41:29] <Cyrille> I think there was independent verification that the only way he was going to be able to carry that much through heathrow would be by ingesting it, and he declined.
[14:41:41] <Gman> berny, heathrow sucks - i didn't buy, and no gin
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[14:42:24] <timsf> Would you have been able to get any through though ? (with your rectum intact, of coursE)
[14:43:06] <timsf> aruiz, does that help ?
[14:44:11] <aruiz> mmm
[14:44:12] <aruiz> yes
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[14:44:19] <timsf> ( 'cept maybe more of the nice colours you had in the original - like the lovely greenness)
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[14:44:53] <aruiz> timsf, where is that image going to be placed?
[14:44:56] <trochej> timsf: You mean rectum colours?
[14:45:12] <timsf> On the iTunes podcast store somewhere,
[14:45:19] <timsf> it's like an album cover...
[14:45:25] <aruiz> ohhhh
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[14:45:29] <aruiz> okay
[14:45:32] <timsf> trochej - <shudder>
[14:45:48] <timsf> note to self - maintaining separate conversation threads on irc can be difficult
[14:46:11] <timsf> a teeny 300x300 pixel album cover...
[14:46:41] <damienc> berny: laca is in Hungary, will be at GUADEC next week.
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[15:09:19] * berny got to move into new flat next week :-\
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[15:13:03] <berny> and powerdown server room in 30mins :-\
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[15:15:01] <trochej> http://www.cups.org/articles.php?L475
[15:15:02] <trochej> :)
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[15:25:11] <JWheeler> I'm trying to build a program on using solaris 8, but it needs the bswap.h which is only included from solaris 10 onwards (from what I can see)... what is the standard answer to problem? (other then to build with something newer)
[15:26:20] <CSFrost> This is a trick question, I just know it..
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[15:26:49] <JWheeler> heh, no trick. I'm trying to build a blastwave package, so it needs to be done on solaris 8
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[15:27:26] <hile_> why would you want to build a blastwave package?
[15:27:48] <Cyrille> the question is not so much about the header but about the symbols. Are the symbols declared in that header present somewhere on Solaris 8?
[15:27:55] <JWheeler> hile_, to support the community
[15:28:21] <JWheeler> is a symbol == function?
[15:28:24] <Cyrille> if they are, just ship the header or paste its contents in the code needing it or something like that...
[15:28:28] * JWheeler doesn't speak fluent C
[15:28:32] <Cyrille> most often, yes.
[15:28:50] <Cyrille> it could be a global variable too, but that's a rarer case.
[15:29:12] <JWheeler> I'm erroring out on a missing function BSWAP_32, and ggrep -ri bswap /usr/include is giving me nothing.... does that answer the question - or have I missed the point?
[15:29:24] <Cyrille> one sec.
[15:29:59] <Cyrille> where did you find bswap.h on Solaris 10?
[15:30:08] <JWheeler> /usr/include/sys/
[15:30:25] <Cyrille> let me guess, only on x86, right?
[15:30:30] <JWheeler> er, byteorder.h sorry
[15:30:35] <Cyrille> ...
[15:30:47] <JWheeler> uhm. well I'm on x86... yes
[15:30:49] <Cyrille> right, common typo, the keys are right next to one another.
[15:30:52] <Cyrille> ;-)
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[15:31:23] <JWheeler> heh... bswap.h is the header in the program that's barfing... I had that on the brain still. In #includes byteorder.h
[15:31:41] <Cyrille> JWheeler, these BSWAP_XX are macros, you can copy paste them in bswap.
[15:31:45] <FrostCS> sol 8 is almost to EOL is it not?
[15:31:55] <hile_> it *is* EOL
[15:31:56] <JWheeler> FrostCS, we can only hope
[15:31:59] <hile_> it's just not EOSL
[15:32:14] <JWheeler> but until solaris 11 hit the shelves, it's sun supported - hence BW supported
[15:32:25] <Tempt> !seen alanc
[15:32:36] <Cyrille> bit early for him, isn't it?
[15:32:44] <JWheeler> Cyrille, now that sounds like a trick answer...
[15:32:45] <Drone> alanc (alanc!n=alanc at 192 dot 18.43.225) was last seen in #opensolaris on Wed 11 Jul 2007 22:10 GMT, saying 'though .xorg.conf is really intended to be a private interface used by xorgcfg only, there's nothing stopping you from using it'.
[15:32:47] <FrostCS> From what I hear... your going to have a long wait till sol11
[15:32:55] <JWheeler> marcos are universally portable?
[15:32:56] <FrostCS> Tempt, 6am Pacific time
[15:33:20] <Cyrille> macros are kind of inline code, so they don't rely on other shared objects or something.
[15:33:22] <Tempt> FrostCS: How's life treating you?
[15:33:50] <Cyrille> JWheeler, it's just a convenience to expand commonly used code, in this case code to swap bytes around.
[15:34:00] <FrostCS> Tempt, if it's cooler today, the answer will be "great"
[15:34:28] <Tempt> FrostCS: It's about 5 degree C at the moment here, (11:34pm)
[15:34:30] <Cyrille> as an alternative, you can try and grep usr/include on your Solaris 8 box and see if these macros are somewhere in a header.
[15:34:51] <Cyrille> and then include that header instead. On Solaris 8.
[15:34:55] <leal_> somebody can help with sc 32?
[15:34:58] <JWheeler> Ok, so my exact error looks like this: ifo_read.c:301: error: implicit declaration of function 'BSWAP_32'
[15:34:58] <JWheeler> ifo_read.c:301: warning: nested extern declaration of 'BSWAP_32'
[15:36:03] <JWheeler> so I can just copy paste any lines containing BSWAP_* from my solaris 10 box, into the applications bswap.h? Thereby bypassing the lack of solaris 8 byteorder.h problem entirely?
[15:36:17] <Cyrille> that would be my suggestion, yes.
[15:36:22] <FrostCS> Tempt, I'd guess about 25 or so, so far today.. hadn't been outside yet though only 9:30 :-P
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[15:37:04] <JWheeler> wicked. thanks Cyrille
[15:38:20] <Tempt> FrostCS: Ouch, probably cross the 30 mark by lunchtime then.
[15:38:58] <FrostCS> Tempt, I am hoping it won't.. it's been 34-35 all week, it's supposed to cool down for the weekend
[15:39:17] <FrostCS> yea, 23 here now
[15:39:41] <FrostCS> the weather gurus say only 27 today though. and so I shall hope
[15:39:49] <Cyrille> JWheeler, to be specific, if BSWAP_32 is the only thing required, you only have to paste the three lines up to and including the one with BSWAP_32.
[15:43:57] <JWheeler> cool, well it's BSWAP_16/32/64, but I get the point! :)
[15:44:14] <Tempt> FrostCS: I'm in the middle of a Melbourne winter.
[15:44:41] <Tempt> FrostCS: 20 degrees would be a hot day at the moment. Then wait until the summer 40s.
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[15:45:06] <FrostCS> Tempt, I still think I'd prefer the Melbourne winter, to a winter here. :-)
[15:45:14] <JWheeler> so just those first 4 lines then?
[15:45:32] <FrostCS> Though the Hawaiian summer is preferred to this one too.. :-P
[15:45:53] <Tempt> Oh, I like the cold.
[15:46:05] <Tempt> Saves on aircon costs and I prefer it sub-20.
[15:46:30] <FrostCS> below -20? or below 20?
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[15:46:37] <Tempt> FrostCS: Come and visit, get away from the heat.
[15:46:39] <Tempt> Below 20.
[15:46:47] <Tempt> Below -20 would be a bit harsh.
[15:46:53] <FrostCS> welcome to winter here :-P
[15:47:19] <quasi> below 20F is still a tad cold ;)
[15:47:57] <FrostCS> we had some -30 days here this winter I know.. and it was evil.
[15:48:11] <FrostCS> though gladly only 2 or 3
[15:49:08] <FrostCS> even Sapporo winters are nicer then here :-P
[15:49:16] <FrostCS> Not real sure why anyone actually wants to live here, hehe
[15:49:18] <Cyrille> JWheeler, yes, should be enough
[15:49:42] <JWheeler> cool, thanks Cyrille. I'll try it tomorrow. Must sleep for now. Night all
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[15:51:02] <Tempt> FrostCS: Did you end up picking up that overpaid contract?
[15:51:14] <FrostCS> yep
[15:51:19] <FrostCS> I should have asked for more
[15:51:26] <Tempt> good work.
[15:51:47] <FrostCS> next time, I'll remember to double it again
[15:51:48] <Tempt> That'll make it all the easier to move to hammockland.
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[15:52:22] <quasi> FrostCS: so you keep doubling hoping that they'll say no?
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[15:52:35] <FrostCS> quasi, hoping.. yep
[15:52:39] <Tempt> Just thinking about relaxing under the palms in that mayan hammock.
[15:53:30] <FrostCS> Tempt, yep, sounds like good naps :-)
[15:54:05] <Tempt> I could really settle into that lifestyle.
[15:54:45] <FrostCS> I just hope it will be lazy enough for me :-P
[15:54:53] <quasi> as long as the hammock has a decent connection
[15:55:11] <Tempt> and enough battery backup.
[15:56:26] <FrostCS> ashame they don't come with it built in...
[15:56:32] <quasi> the best you can get is something like 10hrs - I don't think that's enough
[15:57:10] <Tempt> A Zaurus with some 3G connectivity and a small SLA battery would give you a full days online lounging.
[15:57:39] <Tempt> You could get a little hand-crank charger and call it exercise!
[15:57:59] <quasi> nah, doesn't sound very tempting with a zaurus
[15:58:14] <quasi> I'd just add a power socket instead
[15:59:01] <FrostCS> either that or just sleep :-P
[15:59:02] <Tempt> Zaurus gives you a reasonable platform if you can handle the small screen.
[15:59:10] <Tempt> Aha!
[15:59:19] <Tempt> A head mounted display and a bluetooth keyboard.
[15:59:24] <Tempt> No need to even sit up.
[15:59:33] <Tempt> Just lounge and still have connectivity and media.
[15:59:50] <quasi> Tempt: now you're talking
[16:00:33] <CIA-26> vk154806: 6446463 ufsrestore in interactive and autoload mode does not load next volume with L9 tape autoloader
[16:00:47] <Tempt> With that sort of rig you could even get through a day's work without having to sit up.
[16:00:50] <Tempt> Fantastic.
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[16:01:20] <quasi> or just mount a 52" HD display somewhere over the hammock
[16:01:26] <Tempt> Not to mention lounging in a hammock watching movies on the HMD.
[16:01:41] <Tempt> The HMD means you don't have to look in any one direction. Just lounge whichever is more comfy.
[16:02:18] <FrostCS> I am not so sure how much work should cut into proper lounging time :-P
[16:03:38] <Tempt> FrostCS: About 15 minutes a day?
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[16:04:37] <FrostCS> That's about how much work I actually ever do anyways..
[16:05:55] <Tempt> See? Perfect.
[16:07:32] <Tempt> 15 minutes of clue beats a full day of uselessness.
[16:08:05] <FrostCS> I'm already way ahead of most politicians!
[16:08:45] <Tempt> By weeks of solid work at 15/day!
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[16:12:16] <Tempt> I wonder how much power you'd need to juice up a decent synth with some nice headphones while hammock'ing it.
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[16:16:01] <FrostCS> that would discourage the sounds of the wind and the waves.. people pay good money for that stuff even recorded!
[16:16:11] <FrostCS> brb
[16:16:37] <Tempt> I think there's only so much wind 'n' waves you can take.
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[16:24:26] <aruiz> timsf, :-)
[16:24:39] <aruiz> I'm quite happy with the last one
[16:24:58] <timsf> Yeah, I think it's great, thanks *loads* for doing that!
[16:25:04] <aruiz> np
[16:25:10] <aruiz> I enjoy inkscape a lot
[16:25:11] <aruiz> :)
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[16:26:29] <timsf> Never used it, must have a go sometime - tend to try bezier curves & paths in GIMP all the time, but it's a pain...
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[16:28:06] <LuckyLuke> hello there.
[16:28:19] <seanmcg> Carefull aruiz, the last non-irish person to do a irish poster ended up with their graphic on a bunch of t-shirts :)
[16:28:47] <aruiz> seanmcg, heh!
[16:28:51] <LuckyLuke> maybe I'm just too stupid or uncapable of good searching, but I'm giving up googling for info about blogging software...
[16:29:03] <aruiz> LuckyLuke, what are you looking for?
[16:29:06] <LuckyLuke> I keep finding people's blog about anything else :D
[16:29:17] <aruiz> LuckyLuke, personal blogging, or multiuser blogging?
[16:29:25] <LuckyLuke> aruiz: must choose what to install. roller? wordpress? drupal? xyaaaadfsadfsa?
[16:29:34] <LuckyLuke> I'm new to this blogging thing...
[16:29:35] <aruiz> LuckyLuke, what is it for?
[16:29:44] <aruiz> just for you?
[16:30:08] <LuckyLuke> aruiz: personal, but more than a person. read: I don't need an infrastructure like blogs.sun.com, but a dozen of blog without installing a dozen copies of the software would be cool
[16:30:22] <aruiz> LuckyLuke, Movable Type 4
[16:30:27] <aruiz> LuckyLuke, or LifeType
[16:30:38] <aruiz> MT 4, is maybe too huge
[16:30:50] <aruiz> but the interface rocks
[16:31:04] <LuckyLuke> and what about all that hype on wordpress? everyone's keep talking about it.
[16:31:06] <aruiz> and LifeType is quite simple to use, and I would say that is enough for your purposes
[16:31:16] <aruiz> LuckyLuke, everyone keep talking about linux too
[16:31:20] <quasi> nanoblogger beats them all
[16:31:21] <aruiz> LuckyLuke, but here we are
[16:31:22] <Gman> aruiz, graphic looks great
[16:31:25] <aruiz> Gman, thx
[16:31:35] <LuckyLuke> aruiz: good point :)
[16:31:37] <aruiz> Gman, I need to make a revamp of the indiana logo idea ;-)
[16:32:06] <LuckyLuke> of course it'll end up running in a sxce zone
[16:32:21] <LuckyLuke> not on a lamp :)
[16:32:22] <Gman> aruiz, more curvey :)
[16:32:26] <aruiz> LuckyLuke, wordpress mu was quite unstable when I tried it, it seems that is better now, but I found MT 4 better for big deployments, and lifetype easier and more stable for the low end multiuser blogging thing
[16:32:31] <Gman> less wolfy and scary
[16:32:35] <aruiz> Gman, yeah
[16:32:41] <Gman> round and cuddly ;)
[16:32:48] <aruiz> mmm
[16:33:04] <aruiz> Just got an idea....
[16:33:07] <FrostCS> hmm, I wonder why my mouse cursor keeps taking vacations...
[16:33:29] <FrostCS> I shall blame X.
[16:33:39] <aruiz> Gman, do you want to see the problem that I was talking about booting?
[16:33:51] <aruiz> Gman, just happened, my SXCE installation is broken :/
[16:34:04] <Gman> sure, i'll drop over quickly
[16:34:06] <aruiz> ok
[16:34:12] <rasputnik> LuckyLuke: roller works well if you want one engine to do a dozen blogs
[16:35:49] <FrostCS> Has anyone had a problem with vanishing mouse cursor on sxce? :-P
[16:35:56] <LuckyLuke> I think I'll give a good look at lifetype and maybe I'll compare it with wordpress. thanks for the tips!
[16:36:06] <FrostCS> Was hoping there was a way to get it back without restarting X.. :-p
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[16:37:44] <FrostCS> restarting X I go.. :-)
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[16:40:06] <aruiz> LuckyLuke, the thing with MT is that you don't need to look at the code at all :-)
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[16:44:08] <LuckyLuke> yes, but I like to be able to look at it and maybe touch it a little if I want :)
[16:45:10] <LuckyLuke> re nanoblogger, it and 'vee' are really cool. cron -> vee -> web reporting of things in blog-style. sounds good. must try sooner or later.
[16:45:15] <CSFrost> Mephisto?
[16:45:34] <CSFrost> what language do you want? programming wise?
[16:47:11] <LuckyLuke> I just can't handle perl. Java is not my preferred choice, but it could be ok. Problem with java is my 0 experience with app servers and the like. Other than that, php is ok and python is my preferred one :)
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[16:48:08] <LuckyLuke> I see mephisto is ruby on rails, maybe it's what powers joyeur.com :)
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[16:50:44] <CSFrost> There are a few good rails blog engines... http://pyblosxom.sourceforge.net/ for a python one.
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[17:00:15] <FrostCS> For a neat idea.. the Neo 1973 sure has a stupid name.
[17:00:45] <sickness> should have had a querty keyboard...
[17:01:02] <sickness> too few querty devices on the market, and T9 in midpssh is a PITA
[17:01:10] <FrostCS> yep
[17:01:38] <FrostCS> touchscreens are a bit of a PITA themselves.
[17:01:47] <sickness> yeah
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[17:02:20] <FrostCS> should have had 3G as well as the GSM also..
[17:02:33] <FrostCS> and not the poor north american 3G either..
[17:03:16] <sickness> touchscreens are also evil because they blurren the screen a little, and once you notice it, you can't help but get pissy about it :P
[17:03:51] <FrostCS> that and if they fail, or break you are SOL
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[17:05:24] <FrostCS> I'd much rather have the durability of a normal lcd.
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[17:06:27] <FrostCS> not to mention how many times cheaper it is to produce I am sure :-)
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[17:08:07] <LuckyLuke> sickness: just attach an usb keyboard :)
[17:10:32] <LuckyLuke> at that price it could actually be intersting for us in eurozone
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[17:15:28] <FrostCS> usb 1.1 only too it seems..
[17:15:45] <FrostCS> the phase 2 doesn't have any positive news except for wifi
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[17:31:13] <sickness> LuckyLuke: oh, it has a standard usb port?
[17:31:30] <FrostCS> yea standard 1.1
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[17:36:47] <sickness> cool, didn't know that
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[18:00:26] <CIA-26> darrenm: PSARC/2007/215 KCF Headers in SUNWhea, 6578206 Include KCF API & SPI headers in SUNWhea
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[18:07:05] <gdamore> hi *
[18:08:33] <CSFrost> shh, we are napping :-) (and hi)
[18:08:46] <elektronkind> heya mr. d'amore
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[18:09:54] <elektronkind> congrats on your hme/gfe work, btw. those are the last big interfaces that were missing gldv3 lovin'
[18:10:37] <elektronkind> s/gfe/qfe
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[18:10:58] <timsf> Anyone out there want to dial into Gman's Indiana talk in 2hrs time ?
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[18:13:17] <timsf> guess not!
[18:14:19] <gdamore> elektronkind: no, ce is still MIA
[18:14:33] <Cyrille> they're fearing it'll turn into a live version of whatever-discuss ;-)
[18:14:44] <gdamore> ge would be nice too, but there are quite a bit fewer of those in the field
[18:15:03] <elektronkind> ah right, ce. I take it that's a booger of an interface to deal with wrt porting
[18:15:12] <gdamore> yes, and a political minefield as well.
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[18:16:32] <elektronkind> ah, ce is murkier than I thought then
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[18:17:20] <gdamore> probably.
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[18:17:37] <gdamore> I've removed ~11,000 lines from ce.c as part of GLDv3 related cleanup.
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[18:18:17] <gdamore> from a code aesthetics point-of-view, its kind of an embarrasment I think.
[18:18:41] <gdamore> but more to the point, getting ce converted to GLDv3 means that ce would be delivered as part of ON, rather than as an unbundled product.
[18:19:05] <alanc> timsf: if we call in, we can't throw tomatoes at him
[18:19:13] <alanc> so where's the fun in that?
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[18:23:15] <stevel> timsf: throw one at him for us
[18:23:24] <stevel> say its his pennance for missing the OGB meeting yesterday
[18:23:40] <stevel> you can write "With love from the OGB" on it
[18:24:17] * wesolows missed the meeting too :-(
[18:24:42] <wesolows> It's probably time to do something controversial
[18:24:53] * stevel throws a tomato at wesolows too
[18:25:01] <stevel> ;-)
[18:25:06] <wesolows> *splat*
[18:25:31] <sartek> guys, are somewhere available opensolaris t-shirts?
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[18:30:24] <aruiz> Gman, http://aruiz.synaptia.net
[18:30:44] <aruiz> Gman, is it friendly enough?
[18:31:07] <e^ipi> *yawn*
[18:31:08] <e^ipi> hey all
[18:31:13] <aruiz> hey
[18:32:12] <Cyrille> kind of weird, though it looks like a side view, the ears are strangely misaligned (in my opinion)...
[18:34:15] <aruiz> Cyrille, well, that was where the ear was... it was taken from a real photo
[18:34:16] <aruiz> :)
[18:34:48] <Cyrille> that's what I saw in the post, which is why I said it was weird (as opposed to it being wrong ;-))
[18:35:06] <aruiz> he
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[18:35:30] <aruiz> it looks good with the layers in blue...
[18:35:49] <aruiz> but it's quite better than the previous try
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[18:47:18] <Cyrille> aruiz, by the way, and not to rain on your parade or anything, it would appear according to the intarwebs, which as we know are always right, that the dog is actually an alaskan malamute, often mistaken for a husky ;-)
[18:48:52] <aruiz> Cyrille, I just typed husky on flickr
[18:48:55] <aruiz> X-)
[18:49:37] <e^ipi> gdamore: poke ?
[18:49:38] <Cyrille> sorry, I meant Indiana Jones' dog.
[18:49:45] <Cyrille> not the one in your drawing.
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[18:51:16] <Cyrille> aruiz, the (obviously right) sources being http://www.theindyexperience.com/indy_dvds/dvd_trivia.php and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaskan_Malamute
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[18:52:28] <aruiz> Cyrille, how do you know that the one that I used is not a husky? :?
[18:53:16] <Cyrille> aruiz, I don't, that's my point.
[18:53:26] <aruiz> oh
[18:54:03] <Cyrille> anyway, this is getting too complicated for a not very important point.
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[18:58:30] <axisys> here is a performance/reliability question
[18:58:40] <alanc> hmm, apple bought CUPS...http://www.cups.org/articles.php?L475
[18:58:41] <axisys> i have 12 disks
[18:59:11] <aruiz> alanc, ouch!
[18:59:13] <aruiz> :(
[18:59:19] <axisys> shoudl i do raidz2 of 12 disks or raidz of 5 of two sets and two as spares for both raidzs?
[18:59:43] <alanc> surprised Apple thought they needed it - thought MacOS already had a good printer system
[19:00:33] <aruiz> alanc, that printer system is cups
[19:00:36] <fluffle> osx uses cups under the hood
[19:00:45] <alanc> ah, didn't realize that
[19:01:22] <aruiz> they probably want to do changes to the code without following the GPL :/
[19:02:21] <axisys> so which one preferred? raidz2 of 12 OR 2 raidz of 5 + 2 hotspares by both?
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[19:03:11] <axisys> also can I create one pool out of two raidzs, not mirror?
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[19:05:20] <palowoda> http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid39_gci1263867,00.html
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[19:08:21] <sartek> schily: what means this?: http://rafb.net/p/KQdv7X69.html
[19:12:35] <schily> what's written in the error message: no medium
[19:12:47] <schily> well, maybe it helps to flip the medium :-)
[19:14:54] <CSFrost> I thought Indiana was home of the Monopod goats aruiz ?
[19:15:13] <schily> startek: btw if you use the current -pre2 source you may omit again the dev= parameter
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[19:17:56] <axisys> Is there a recommended number of disks for raidz2 should not exceed? I have 12 disks.. (rephrasing the question for greater audience I suppose)
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[19:19:22] <axisys> got it: "the recommended number of disks per group is between 3 and 9; if you have more disks, use multiple groups"
[19:19:29] <axisys> http://www.solarisinternals.com/wiki/index.php/ZFS_Best_Practices_Guide#RAID-Z_Configuration_Requirements_and_Recommendations
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[19:23:54] <axisys> is it possible to create a zpool out of two raidzs?
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[19:26:00] <e^ipi> axisys: like, just striping the data across?
[19:26:11] <e^ipi> yeah...
[19:26:31] <e^ipi> zpool add mypool raidz c0d2 c0d3 c0d4
[19:26:43] <sahafeez> zpool create bla raidz d1 d2 d3 raidz d4 d5 d6 raidz d7 d8 d9 or something like that
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[19:27:06] <sahafeez> if you have 9 disk and want 3 disk raidz
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[19:37:21] <axisys> sahafeez, e^ipi so can I do this? zpool create blah raidz d1 d2 d3 raidz d7 d8 d9 spare d10 d11 ?
[19:37:30] <e^ipi> yes
[19:37:34] <axisys> striping across?
[19:37:37] <TomJ_> anyone here run Solaris 10 in a VMWare Workstation or Server VM?
[19:38:00] <axisys> e^ipi: yes, can I do stripping across?
[19:38:05] <e^ipi> though I don't remember if spare has to be after the raidz part ( eg, zpool create blah raidz d1 d2 d3 spare d10 raidz d7 d8 d9 spare d11 )
[19:38:14] <e^ipi> check the docs.
[19:38:25] <axisys> but will it stripe ?
[19:38:30] <e^ipi> yeah, it does that by default
[19:38:33] <axisys> i dont want mirror
[19:38:39] <axisys> e^ipi: excellent
[19:38:48] <e^ipi> zfs is smart, it'll optimize writes for later
[19:39:17] <axisys> so i rather create two raidz, with spares, than one raidz2 of 12 disks ?!
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[19:39:33] <sahafeez> you can do one raidz of 12 disk. it will not be as fast
[19:39:39] <_mary_kate_> axisys: why not create two raidz2's without spares?
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[19:39:45] <sahafeez> there are trade offs
[19:39:46] <e^ipi> if you like, you can even do double parity raid ( raidz2 )
[19:40:00] <e^ipi> it allows for a double disk failure
[19:40:02] <sahafeez> yah, i would skip the spares
[19:40:15] <alanc> oh, now I'll have to upgrade my Ultra 10 to nv_70, just so I can blame gdamore's new hme for everything wrong with it...
[19:40:17] <sahafeez> however if you must have them just do raidz2 (sorta like raid6)
[19:40:24] <axisys> _mary_kate_, sahafeez make sense.. except more risk
[19:40:38] <sahafeez> so do raidz2
[19:41:04] <_mary_kate_> axisys: the risk is fairly low - if you're worried, keep a spare disk in your parts drawer :)
[19:41:41] <axisys> _mary_kate_: so two raidz with one disk as spare shared between the raids and then make a stripe pool across the two raids
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[19:41:57] <_mary_kate_> axisys: that's not what i said :)
[19:41:59] <axisys> that would get me size wise 1 less disk .. but lot more performance
[19:42:04] <_mary_kate_> axisys: two raidz2's with no spares
[19:42:18] <_mary_kate_> (striped)
[19:42:18] <axisys> _mary_kate_: i loose 4 disks that way
[19:42:30] <_mary_kate_> axisys: you lose the same number of disks as 2 raidz with 2 spares
[19:42:38] <_mary_kate_> which is what you were going to do originally
[19:42:46] <axisys> no i was thinking of one spare
[19:43:16] <axisys> originally yes.. but afterr discussing i think 1 spare will be ok with two radiz
[19:43:58] <hrlmec2> anyone familiar with the PAM modules?
[19:44:26] <axisys> _mary_kate_, e^ipi, sahafeez thanks a lot guys
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[19:44:31] <e^ipi> n/p
[19:46:29] <gdamore> the new hme is about 2% faster than the old, btw.
[19:47:55] <sahafeez> hum. linux changed their scheduler.....again.
[19:48:41] <e^ipi> good, the old one sucked
[19:49:03] <sahafeez> which old one. there are like 10 or 20 now or something like that ;)
[19:49:35] <hrlmec2> Are there any PAM modules out that there will authenticate against a berkely db or even a flat file? Anything besides the system users?
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[19:51:23] <sahafeez> hum, each distro will have its own scheduler pretty soon.
[19:51:46] <e^ipi> heh, they'll end up like the myriad of unicies in the late 80's
[19:53:21] <iron_angel> hrlmec2: well, there's pam_sql, pam_ldap, and I wanna say there's a pam_file
[19:53:31] <iron_angel> in addition to the usual suspects.
[19:53:39] <_mary_kate_> i saw some kind of pam module that adds another /etc/passwd somewhere.
[19:53:42] <_mary_kate_> don't remember its name
[19:53:45] <hrlmec2> pam_pwdfile?
[19:54:19] <wesolows> Which is silly since the right solution there is to go implement arguments to NSS backends, not another PAM module.
[19:55:33] <hrlmec2> Where would I find some of these modules?  I've looked and can't seem to find anything for some reason. :(
[19:56:10] <_mary_kate_> heh, apparently there is also an nss module for that
[19:56:16] <_mary_kate_> i wonder why someone wrote both
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[19:56:43] <sfire||mouse> _mary_kate_: someone, or someones
[19:56:59] <sfire||mouse> two different authors would make sense
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[20:00:29] <CIA-26> gm209912: 6577286 sip_create_dialog_req() incorrectly fills in the contact header, 6577343 incorrect assert aborts the program
[20:00:31] <CIA-26> sl108498: 6572719 ld.so on sparc and amd64 should be brand aware, 6577995 brandz should provide a brand aux vector to point to a brand specific linker.
[20:00:32] <CIA-26> gd78059: PSARC 2007/319 HME GLDv3 conversion, 4891284 RFE to add debug kstat counter for promiscuous mode to hme driver, 6345963 panic in hme, 6554790 Race betweeen hmedetach and hmestat_kstat_update, 6568532 hme should support GLDv3, 6578294 hme does not support hardware checksum
[20:02:17] *** hrlmec2 has quit IRC
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[20:09:24] <gdamore> hey, CIA finally caught up. :-)
[20:11:16] <CSFrost> caught napping :-P
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[21:00:30] <CIA-26> baban: 6570027 memory leak in idmapd for idmap show -c winname:... code path, 6573151 libidmap API should be more specific about RPC failures, 6573159 idmap_config.c should use idmapdlog() to log messages instead of its own routines, 6573415 Segmentation Fault in "idmap show unixname:unknownuser winname", 6573634 idmapd fails to start the reaper thread to close idle AD connections, 6573752 idmapd still has syslog messages that should not be localize
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[22:00:33] <CIA-26> ek110237: 6578493 arc_meta_limit should be configurable
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[22:24:31] <esaxe> !seen dclarke
[22:24:36] <Drone> dclarke (dclarke!n=Dennis at d39-216-186 dot home1.cgocable.net) was last seen in #opensolaris on Wed 11 Jul 2007 17:18 GMT, saying 'dclarke leaves'.
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[23:31:22] <palowoda> What everybody went fishing today.
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[23:36:34] <esaxe> nah.
[23:37:46] <esaxe> ....although looking outside, that's not a bad idea
[23:43:19] <palowoda> The trip starts at 3am.
[23:44:05] <esaxe> ok, so that wouldn't have been a bad idea
[23:44:46] <palowoda> 3am this morning waves are down, wind is down.
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