July 8, 2007 
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July 8, 2007 [00:01:03] *** dmarker has quit IRC [00:01:36] *** dmarker has joined #opensolaris [00:11:28] *** dmesg has joined #opensolaris [00:11:31] <dmesg> hi [00:11:33] <dmesg> dudes [00:11:43] <dmesg> and dudettes too [00:12:05] <dmesg> have any one try to install pkgsrc on opensolaris? [00:12:48] <cmihai> Don't bother. [00:12:57] <cmihai> See my rant on #NetBSD. [00:13:59] <cmihai> Sure, it bootstraps and stuff compiles, but way too many vital depends are broken, and it's more of a headache then it's worth. [00:14:21] <dmesg> cmihai u every where :O :P [00:14:40] <dmesg> cmihai i see :) [00:14:49] <cmihai> Yes, quite. [00:15:39] <dmesg> :P [00:15:59] <cmihai> Mostly due to pkgsrc, I've been fighting for a week now to get it working to an acceptable level. [00:16:32] *** sartek has joined #opensolaris [00:18:18] <dmesg> ohh [00:20:05] <quasi> Resync in progress: 29 % done [00:20:08] *** gns has joined #opensolaris [00:20:26] <quasi> initial mirror on svm is such a slow process [00:21:05] <cmihai> dmesg: ah, here's another fun broken depend: glib2 :-) [00:21:09] <cmihai> Add ncurses to that, and basically nothing works. [00:22:11] <dmesg> :O [00:24:18] *** EchoBinary has quit IRC [00:24:27] *** EchoBinary has joined #opensolaris [00:27:46] *** cypromis has left #opensolaris [00:33:08] *** nachox has quit IRC [00:35:07] *** nachox has joined #opensolaris [00:45:10] *** cmihai has quit IRC [00:46:14] *** Fish has quit IRC [00:50:39] *** NikolaVeber has quit IRC [00:56:21] *** Kernel86_ has quit IRC [00:56:38] *** Kernel86 has joined #OpenSolaris [01:04:20] *** Kaiba has quit IRC [01:06:41] *** palowoda has quit IRC [01:07:19] *** dmesg has quit IRC [01:09:26] *** Kaiba has joined #opensolaris [01:17:57] <WOP> hey as a brand new user to solaris, what xwindows system is better. CDE or Java Desktop system Release 3? [01:19:53] <vmlemon> Try both, but Java Desktop System is recommended by Sun [01:20:22] <vmlemon> As far as I know, CDE is planned to be phased out [01:20:41] <vmlemon> JDS is basically GNOME with Sun branding [01:21:38] <WOP> yeah ill try both. i plan on getting the top solaris certs along with the higher development certs. i just wanted to know something like the recommended one. also if CDE is getting phased out, i really wouldnt want to bother [01:22:10] *** Sieghard has joined #opensolaris [01:23:15] <WOP> and since i plan on getting heavily into java, i guess it would make sense to pick JDE [01:23:33] <WOP> JDS* [01:24:19] <vmlemon> That said, despite the name, JDS actually contains very few Java components [01:24:53] <vmlemon> It's just marketing fluff, to try and "unify" the various different products that Sun sells [01:27:55] *** Sieghard has quit IRC [01:28:39] <vmlemon> The Java stuff basically boils town to an MP3 playing utility, a Java-GNOME bridge, and a few management utilities, from what I [01:28:43] <vmlemon> *I've seen [01:29:56] <vmlemon> *down [01:30:35] <vmlemon> I'm still new to Solaris, that said [01:31:06] <fedorared> Java bindings are in upstream GNOME I see. [01:32:40] *** palowoda has joined #opensolaris [01:34:51] *** Sieghard has joined #opensolaris [01:35:00] <palowoda> Sweet: http://blogs.sun.com/erwann/entry/compiz_extra_plugins Use step one for on one step solution. Performance is great with Nvidia 7600GS card. God please put it in the next build. [01:39:35] <nachox> "you may experience some weird behaviours, even crashes with these third party plugins are not all well tested." [01:39:36] *** jcea has quit IRC [01:42:27] *** nachox has quit IRC [01:42:55] *** triplah_ has joined #opensolaris [01:43:14] <palowoda> "you" may but so far I'm not mayed. :-) [01:44:07] <palowoda> This Compiz is just figgen cool. [01:44:38] *** vmlemon has quit IRC [01:44:44] <palowoda> friggen [01:54:05] *** Mazon is now known as mazon [02:03:00] *** sbahra has quit IRC [02:04:24] *** gns has quit IRC [02:10:46] *** Sieghard has quit IRC [02:16:28] *** nostoi has quit IRC [02:19:59] *** sartek has quit IRC [02:29:52] *** jamesd has joined #opensolaris [02:47:01] *** CHTboy has joined #opensolaris [02:54:58] *** jpdrawneek has joined #opensolaris [02:57:35] <axisys> anyone know the url for the log file of this channel? [02:59:22] *** sahafeez has joined #opensolaris [03:00:33] <Doc> are you after something specific? [03:04:06] <jamesd> he's after care and feeding tips of trolls and kimono dragons of course ;- [03:04:09] <jamesd> ;-) [03:10:06] *** alanc_away has quit IRC [03:10:30] *** alanc_away has joined #opensolaris [03:10:46] *** jamesd_ has joined #opensolaris [03:12:20] *** jpdrawneek has quit IRC [03:15:04] *** jamesd__ has joined #opensolaris [03:20:30] *** jamesd_ has quit IRC [03:24:32] *** yongsun has joined #opensolaris [03:24:38] *** jamesd has quit IRC [03:25:44] *** jamesd__ is now known as jamesd [03:25:52] <yongsun> hi, guys, I am building latest onnv-gate on snv_66, and found the following error, [03:25:58] <yongsun> Failed to create i86pc usr archive: 2110 blocks [03:26:04] <yongsun> cpiotranslate: usr/platform/i86pc/lib/fm/fmd/plugins: no packaging info [03:26:09] <yongsun> cpiotranslate: usr/platform/i86pc/lib/fm/fmd: no packaging info [03:26:26] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jamesd [03:31:00] *** Pir8 has quit IRC [03:40:02] *** gns has joined #opensolaris [03:41:52] *** CHTboy has quit IRC [03:50:20] *** sahafeez has left #opensolaris [03:50:30] *** palowoda has quit IRC [04:05:42] *** hile_ has joined #opensolaris [04:14:58] *** koolniczka has quit IRC [04:21:28] *** bb3 has joined #opensolaris [04:22:55] *** gns has quit IRC [04:23:15] *** deedaw has quit IRC [04:32:09] *** bb3 has quit IRC [04:39:17] *** bengtf has quit IRC [04:43:24] *** bb3 has joined #opensolaris [04:48:47] *** palowoda has joined #opensolaris [04:58:20] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris [05:01:20] *** bb3 has quit IRC [05:03:17] *** mlh has joined #opensolaris [05:04:16] *** bb3 has joined #opensolaris [05:18:54] <Reidms-420R> cmihai getting back to ya- because I jumped the gun lol [05:19:02] <Reidms-420R> (you asked me why I installed :p [05:22:33] *** jamesd2 has joined #opensolaris [05:27:34] *** palowoda has quit IRC [05:28:42] *** palowoda has joined #opensolaris [05:29:55] <Reidms-420R> Ok- apache2 does not have a httpd.conf correct? [05:35:59] *** jamesd has quit IRC [05:40:16] <Reidms-420R> Yes- /etc/apache2/original/httpd.conf [05:43:18] *** mega has quit IRC [05:50:50] *** JohannaIsNotHere has joined #opensolaris [05:50:54] <JohannaIsNotHere> hello [05:51:31] <JohannaIsNotHere> I am wondering what the define flag is the Sun CC compiler... ex: in visual studio it is WIN32, in g++ it is _GNUC_ [05:53:50] *** Tpent1 has joined #opensolaris [05:54:19] *** Tpenta has quit IRC [05:54:32] <twincest> __SUNPRO_C [05:55:12] <twincest> __SUNPRO_CC for C++ [05:56:49] *** ShadowHntr has joined #opensolaris [05:57:42] *** freakazoid0223 has quit IRC [05:57:43] <JohannaIsNotHere> ok thank you so much [05:58:02] <twincest> btw, for VS you should use _MSC_VER, i think. [05:58:19] <JohannaIsNotHere> Win32 is just a define in windows.h I assume? [05:58:33] <twincest> something like that, probably not VS-specific anyway [05:59:55] <JohannaIsNotHere> speaking of which, anybody have trouble with stl vector iterators in _GNUC_ ? [06:00:06] *** bb3 has quit IRC [06:00:09] <twincest> no [06:00:15] <JohannaIsNotHere> I cannot even declare a vector iterator in GCC, but it works fine in SunC++ or visual studio [06:00:22] <twincest> show an example [06:00:22] *** mega has joined #opensolaris [06:00:27] <JohannaIsNotHere> ok [06:00:36] *** freakazoid0223 has joined #opensolaris [06:01:08] <JohannaIsNotHere> this crashes on gcc: vector<T>::iterator iter; [06:01:16] <twincest> a complete example [06:01:18] <JohannaIsNotHere> not crash, it results in a compile time error [06:01:24] <twincest> (www.rafb.net/paste) [06:03:09] <JohannaIsNotHere> http://rafb.net/p/5FctiT81.html [06:03:29] <twincest> by "complete example" i mean something i can compile [06:03:47] <JohannaIsNotHere> ok [06:05:39] *** Tpenta has joined #opensolaris [06:06:54] *** EchoBinar1 has joined #opensolaris [06:06:55] *** EchoBinary has quit IRC [06:07:13] *** EchoBinar1 is now known as EchoBinary [06:07:43] <JohannaIsNotHere> this should be compilable: http://rafb.net/p/uAknBH45.html [06:08:54] <twincest> typename vector<T>::iterator [06:09:14] <twincest> the compiler doesn't know T at that point, so it doesn't know if vector<T>::iterator is a type or a value (vector<> could be specialised over T) [06:09:22] <twincest> you have to tell it, by writing typename [06:09:54] *** djgregor has quit IRC [06:10:03] <JohannaIsNotHere> oh ok that makes sense, I never thought of that need before [06:10:46] <twincest> some older compilers (both VC and gcc) were lax about it and would try to guess from the context, but the standard requires typename and most current compilers also [06:11:54] *** sstallion has quit IRC [06:12:14] <JohannaIsNotHere> well it does work in visual studio 2005 which is fairly recent... I suppose VS 2008 may be changing that [06:14:28] *** Tpent1 has quit IRC [06:31:52] *** sparc-kly has joined #opensolaris [06:31:52] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o sparc-kly [06:35:21] *** Yamazaki-kun has quit IRC [06:49:04] *** cypromis has joined #opensolaris [07:19:52] *** GeneralDelta has joined #opensolaris [07:20:25] *** cypromis has quit IRC [07:21:28] <GeneralDelta> coffman: you about? :) [07:28:16] *** cypromis has joined #opensolaris [07:49:43] <Reidms-420R> I can not seem to start apache2 [07:49:57] <Reidms-420R> # /usr/apache2/bin/httpd -k start [07:49:57] <Reidms-420R> # /usr/apache2/bin/httpd -k stop [07:49:57] <Reidms-420R> httpd (no pid file) not running [07:50:07] <Reidms-420R> How can I fix this? [07:53:00] <jamesd2> try svcadm enable apache2 [07:54:34] <kohju> try 'svcs -a', you can get all services. [07:54:46] *** cypromis has quit IRC [07:55:51] <Reidms-420R> svcs -a | grep apache [07:55:52] <Reidms-420R> legacy_run Jul_06 lrc:/etc/rc3_d/S50apache [07:55:52] <Reidms-420R> legacy_run Jul_06 lrc:/etc/rc3_d/S50cswapache [07:55:52] <Reidms-420R> maintenance 22:21:25 svc:/network/http:apache2 [07:56:18] <Reidms-420R> is it in some type of maintenance mode? [07:56:59] <jamesd2> Reidms-420R, svcadm clear http:apache2 ; svcadm enable http:apache2 ; sleep 5 ; svcs -x if it still fails check your logs, most likely your apache2 config if fubar [07:58:36] <kohju> tail -f /var/svc/log/network-http:apache2.log [07:59:05] <kohju> maybe, you can get some logs. [08:02:52] <Reidms-420R> jamesd2 ran all but sleep 5 [08:02:55] <Reidms-420R> Works now [08:02:58] <Reidms-420R> thanks a ton! [08:03:38] <kohju> Reidms-420:gj. [08:03:49] <Reidms-420R> thanks [08:04:01] * jamesd2 says your welcome and runs sleep 5h :-) good night alll [08:04:14] <Reidms-420R> night jamesd2 [08:13:53] <axisys> isnt there a log file somewhere.. i like to add that to my custom google search page [08:40:32] *** GeneralDelta has quit IRC [08:43:45] *** ShadowHntr has quit IRC [08:44:27] *** jamesd2 has quit IRC [08:44:42] *** jamesd2 has joined #opensolaris [09:06:46] *** dmarker has quit IRC [09:07:03] *** dmarker has joined #opensolaris [09:18:19] *** linux_user400354 has joined #opensolaris [09:20:20] <linux_user400354> is it possible for people to get unlisted phone numbers? [09:21:46] <estibi> morning [09:29:20] *** cmihai has joined #OpenSolaris [09:31:19] *** jamesd2 has quit IRC [09:34:48] <gdamore> got hme running with hardware checksum support, in case anyone is interested. :-) [09:35:01] <gdamore> this means that qfe can be updated for it too, btw. ;-) [09:40:41] *** nostoi has joined #opensolaris [09:44:05] <Tempt> gdamore: Good work! [09:44:41] *** linux_user400354 has quit IRC [09:52:33] *** xushi_ has joined #opensolaris [10:00:03] *** dmarker has quit IRC [10:00:13] *** dmarker has joined #opensolaris [10:00:32] *** m0le has joined #opensolaris [10:07:09] *** m0le has left #opensolaris [10:29:51] *** aska_ has joined #opensolaris [10:37:37] *** Fish- has joined #opensolaris [10:40:43] *** Gman has quit IRC [10:42:44] <Fish-> hello [10:43:56] *** aska has quit IRC [10:44:04] <quasi> gdamore: impressive [10:45:55] <trygvis> I though the hme chip was like 10 years old .. it really has hardware checksum support? [10:54:59] <trygvis> [10:55:21] <boyd> gdamore is the man! [10:56:57] <oxygene> trygvis: I guess, it was more useful for 100mbit networks 10 years ago than it is today [10:59:01] <trygvis> true [10:59:26] <st3fan> will i be in trouble if i install Solaris Express Developer Edition on a server system? [10:59:57] <trygvis> I'm still a bit surprised as that chip is in so many sun servers, if it has hw support I would assumed it was implemented years ago [11:00:11] <st3fan> maybe it was buggy :) [11:01:09] <Tempt> Or maybe hardware checksum was all marketing and no actual win. [11:02:28] <palowoda> st3fan: If you install any version of Solaris on a server your in trouble. [11:02:41] <st3fan> bah! i knew it! [11:03:02] <st3fan> back to SCO [11:03:19] <Tempt> Yeah, every time I install Solaris on a server someone expects me to look after it. [11:03:24] <st3fan> :-) [11:03:49] <st3fan> but seriously .. running the dev edition on a headless server should not be a problem right? [11:04:11] <palowoda> Why would it be? [11:04:27] <st3fan> hey i'm the n00b here with the questions :) [11:04:38] * st3fan burns dvd [11:04:47] <palowoda> It just keeps getting better with every build. [11:05:20] <quasi> st3fan: you just don't get patches and updates as on solaris [11:05:42] <st3fan> that is fine, it is an internal staging server to just run some java apps in zones [11:05:45] <palowoda> No you have to wait till the patches are tested with Nevada. [11:05:53] <st3fan> and maybe do some c++ development [11:06:06] <trygvis> st3fan: that shouldn't be a problem at all [11:06:10] <quasi> st3fan: then no problem [11:06:16] <palowoda> Patches will really screw you up. That is where you earn your pay. [11:06:46] <palowoda> Nevada is for lazy developers. [11:06:51] <st3fan> that's me [11:07:17] * quasi kicks palowoda - you should have taken the other pill [11:08:24] <palowoda> So many pills, so little time. :-) [11:08:36] <st3fan> lets see if this works on a Core2Quad [11:09:02] <palowoda> I want a laptop with a Core2Quad. [11:09:29] <palowoda> I'm bored with my current one. [11:09:38] <st3fan> i bought a whole bunch of them for our compute farm .. rocks [11:10:53] <palowoda> Hardware can be boring at times. [11:13:05] <palowoda> Like buy a car new off the lot, it loses 25 percent of the value out the door. But the kids are glued to the dvid player in the roof. [11:13:27] <palowoda> s/dvid/dvd [11:14:08] <Tempt> Some hardware is boring, some interesting. [11:14:49] <Tempt> switches are boring. Routers can be interesting but are often boring. Rackmount PC hardware is boring. [11:14:54] <st3fan> is it a bad idea to have just a single / partition? or is that ok these days? [11:15:13] <Tempt> Sun Fire 6800s were interesting. Sequent boxes were interesting, as were Pyramids. [11:15:13] <trygvis> good idea, but make sure to have slices for LUs [11:15:24] <st3fan> LUs? [11:15:28] <trygvis> live upgrade [11:15:31] <Tempt> Your first RS/6000 was interesting, but only for an hour or so. [11:15:44] <palowoda> heh. [11:15:47] <st3fan> don't think i'll do a live upgrade :) [11:15:56] <st3fan> ok installink. breakfast! [11:15:57] <Tempt> All the Netras were boring. [11:16:01] <palowoda> Than you better have a backup system. [11:16:04] <Tempt> 880s were interesting. [11:16:11] <trygvis> I think you will, it's the easiest way to keep up to date on the nevada builds [11:16:11] <palowoda> for heat yes. [11:16:20] <trygvis> it's far faster that installing from scratch every time [11:16:43] <palowoda> Always have three systems online and ready to go. [11:16:50] <Tempt> palowoda: For heat? [11:18:10] <palowoda> That or woodbuning stoves. [11:18:55] <palowoda> How much a month would it take to run that thing say in CA? [11:20:31] <Tempt> What thing? [11:20:36] <palowoda> 880 [11:20:41] <Tempt> Hmmm. [11:20:45] <Tempt> What does power cost in CA? [11:20:55] <palowoda> 30 cents a k/hour [11:21:00] <Tempt> FUCKING HELL [11:21:05] <palowoda> no shit [11:21:09] <Tempt> That's *FUCKED* [11:21:19] <palowoda> no the 880 is fucked [11:21:30] <palowoda> get the picture [11:21:39] <Tempt> No wonder everyone is rushing to low power computing there. [11:21:48] <palowoda> I didn't make the rules. [11:21:54] <Tempt> geez. [11:22:14] <Tempt> The worst rate I've seen in Australia is about 16 cents (AU) per kwh [11:22:42] <palowoda> It's on a scale too, the more power you use it goes up linear in cost. You can really get screwed. [11:22:57] <quasi> so the aussies are to blame for global warming [11:23:06] <palowoda> My electric bill is about 230.00 a month. [11:23:16] <Tempt> Considering all of our power is generated by burning COAL, yes. [11:23:25] <Tempt> (well, we have a couple of hydros, but nothing significant) [11:23:28] <palowoda> Nature gass not coal [11:23:33] <palowoda> gas [11:23:46] <palowoda> No coal burning plants in CA. [11:23:54] <palowoda> One Nuke. [11:24:03] <Tempt> Australia has ample coal, we burn it like nothing else. [11:24:15] <Tempt> There is a lot of politics at the moment with regard to getting our first nuclear facility running. [11:24:25] <palowoda> All the natural gas here comes from Canada. [11:24:57] <palowoda> We need more nuke plants. [11:25:03] <Tempt> palowoda: My electric bill is around $AU800/quarter. [11:25:25] <Tempt> but that is a very high bill on average. [11:25:26] <palowoda> What is the exh rate .80 to a dollar [11:26:33] <Tempt> according to XE $AU800 is $US685. [11:26:50] <Tempt> 1 AUD = 0.85 US [11:27:01] <palowoda> Still you power bill is high. I use wood heat. In the winter my power bills are still around 250.00 USD a month but most of my friends are 400.00 USD a month. [11:27:29] <Tempt> I live in an apartment with all electric everything. Cooking, hot water, 3.5kW espresso machine, inefficient lighting [11:27:46] <palowoda> That would kill you if you lived in CA. [11:28:06] <Tempt> I don't use an explicit heating but the 880, for example, generates a lot of heat. [11:28:20] <Tempt> If I didn't have machines I'd have to burn power on heating anyway in winter. [11:28:29] <palowoda> Here in CA you would use that heat in the winter. [11:28:40] <Tempt> Summer power increases by about $150/qtr due to air con. [11:29:09] <Tempt> Really? How cold does CA get in Winter? [11:29:17] <st3fan> here in .nl we pay around 270 USD/month for gas/power/heating [11:29:26] <palowoda> We save power in summer because the air conditioning causes brownouts. [11:29:31] <st3fan> it's gone up up up the last few years [11:29:45] <palowoda> Blame Canada. :-) [11:29:57] <st3fan> i like canada [11:30:00] <st3fan> :-) [11:30:11] <Tempt> Seriously, what sort of temperatures are outside that have that amount of heating required? [11:30:46] <palowoda> In the summer the majority of CA is in the 90's F. In the winter it's not to bad in the 50/60 F. [11:30:57] <st3fan> i heat the house with 150 old Pentium Pros [11:31:07] <Tempt> Man. [11:31:09] <st3fan> running pwcrack [11:31:17] <Tempt> People burn that much power heating to escape 15 degree C? [11:31:28] <Tempt> My inside temperature is about 19 at the moment and I'm happy. [11:31:31] <palowoda> If you had to pay the natural gas prices in CA say to heat your house in Michigan you couldn't afford a morgage. [11:32:28] <palowoda> I have two word burning stoves and I get my wood free. But that is unusal to get wood free here. It usally cost about 300 a cord of wood. [11:32:42] <Tempt> "cord". That isn't an SI unit ;) [11:33:07] <Tempt> If I needed heating and had the place for it I'd burn wood too. [11:33:08] <palowoda> 4ftx4ftx16ft. [11:33:21] <Stric> Tempt: neither is feet/fahrenheit etc ;) [11:33:47] <Tempt> Stric: Yes, but at least Google can help me there. [11:33:51] <palowoda> I have about 4 full cords of wood right now. [11:34:09] <Tempt> you have: cords [11:34:10] <Tempt> you want: square metres * 3.901440e-01 / 2.563156e+00 [11:34:17] <Tempt> Units for the win. [11:34:46] <Tempt> Unfortunately, square metres isn't a very useful conversion. [11:35:08] <Stric> palowoda seems to hint that it's a 3d measurement, not 2d ;) [11:35:18] <palowoda> it is. [11:35:25] <Tempt> you want: cubic metres [11:35:25] <Tempt> cannot recognize cubic [11:35:32] <palowoda> You have face cords and full cords. [11:35:41] <Stric> Tempt: m^3 [11:35:52] <Tempt> you want: m^3 [11:35:53] <Tempt> cannot recognize m^ [11:36:02] <Stric> You want: m^3 [11:36:02] <Stric> * 3.6245564 [11:36:21] <Tempt> Enough, enough, I've already got it. [11:36:32] <palowoda> A full cord will overflow a large pickup truck bed. [11:36:40] <Tempt> That's a lot of wood. [11:36:51] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris [11:37:22] <palowoda> keeps you in shape stacking and splitting it too. [11:38:51] <palowoda> I should get a wood burning steam generator just to piss my nieghbors off. :-) [11:40:29] <Tempt> Steam generator? [11:40:46] <palowoda> By the way where does all the prevailing winds in AUS take all the coal plant pollution? [11:41:50] <Tempt> everywhere ;) [11:42:05] <Tempt> Most of it lands over the residents in the nearby area (for the particulate pollution) [11:42:25] <palowoda> Hmm I thought it would take it to India. [11:42:47] <Tempt> The black soot lands over the local, lord knows where the rest goes. [11:42:57] <Tempt> Improvements in scrubbers etc have really cut it down. [11:43:20] <Tempt> But we need to go nuclear. I mean, fsck it, we've got huge amounts of the good stuff in the ground, let's use it instead of shipping it overseas. [11:44:07] <palowoda> Yeah I wondered why they where shipping so much of it out of the country. [11:45:45] <Tempt> Everyone else wants our Uranium, but the local fscking hippie/NIMBY/leftwing population hate the mere idea of nuclear power. [11:45:57] <Tempt> They'd rather ship it to France to beef up their weapons program. [11:46:08] <palowoda> You have Russia, AUS, Canada which have the largest deposits of uranium. [11:46:50] <palowoda> France is making out like a bandit in the EU because of their nuke power and CO credits. [11:47:05] *** tsoome has quit IRC [11:48:44] <Tempt> Anyway, the idea of paying that much for power would make me want to have my own mini-nuclear plant. [11:49:06] <Tempt> Or drill your own geothermal borehole [11:49:32] *** yongsun has quit IRC [11:49:33] <palowoda> Anyways the original point I was making is it's hard to have big iron at the home here in CA because of the cost of power. [11:50:17] <Tempt> Send me some CPU boards and RAM and you can have a zone on mine [11:50:24] <palowoda> A T1000/2000 would make sense but still expensive. [11:50:48] <palowoda> Hey I'm all running low powoer dual AMD machines. [11:50:57] <palowoda> power [11:51:09] <Tempt> By the time the power savings on a T2000 paid off for me, the machine would be an antique. [11:51:46] <palowoda> If you need interger based apps it can't all be that bad. [11:53:33] <Tempt> It would seriously take .. over 10 years to save money [11:53:52] <Tempt> maybe even over 20 [11:54:47] <palowoda> Hmm interesting estimates. [11:55:41] <palowoda> The market preception would think otherwise. [11:55:56] <Tempt> I'm on in California paying Californian power rates. [11:57:30] <Tempt> My 880 costs me about $250/quarter [11:57:31] <palowoda> Maybe the 880 isn't shipping in a high enough volume to make a difference in priceing? [11:57:51] <Tempt> That's actually higher than the power I've measured. [11:57:57] <quasi> Tempt: and with the joy of occasional brownouts ;) [11:58:11] <Tempt> A T2000 would probably cut that down to $50/qtr [11:58:19] <nightswim> it's not just the paying off in energy savings, at a lot of places there just isn't enough power [11:58:27] <Tempt> How long at $200/qtr does it take to pay off a machine that costs ... $40k? [11:58:50] <palowoda> Ah well so much for market preception. [11:59:05] <Tempt> Not to mention I'd still be standing up storage [11:59:12] <nightswim> so then there's the options "putting up nothing or less machines" and "putting up efficient machines" [11:59:43] <Tempt> The main point I've seen for T2000s is data centres starving for power. [11:59:48] <palowoda> Yeah can't get away from spindle power cost. [11:59:51] <Tempt> Running out of UPS etc [12:00:08] <Tempt> So, 880 -> T2000+arrays wouldn't save much power. [12:00:24] <oxygene> I guess, t2000 is interesting if you're using hundreds of them [12:01:11] <palowoda> But PGE gives you discounts for using t1000/2000s ?? [12:01:16] <palowoda> Why? [12:05:22] * Tempt shrugs [12:05:51] <palowoda> Yeah I shrug too. I'd like to know the figures. [12:06:26] <Tempt> The T2000s are a big power saving. For the right workload, you're talking about saving up to 800W. [12:06:42] <quasi> or more [12:07:00] <Tempt> I don't know about you're data centres, but the ones I've worked in over half the machines are running less than 50% load [12:07:08] <Tempt> A lot are running less than 25% [12:07:33] <palowoda> So a glut of cpu cycles on the market. [12:07:40] <quasi> the or more bit comes from taking cooling into account [12:08:01] <Tempt> That's the one. [12:08:20] <Tempt> UPS losses + actual usage + HVAC ... [12:08:21] <Tempt> huge [12:09:14] <palowoda> But not one 880 conversion just lots of them. [12:10:50] <Tempt> 880s are coming out all over the place. [12:10:53] <Tempt> End of lease [12:10:58] <Tempt> But people are replacing them with 890s [12:11:18] <Tempt> And when the 890s are old, they'll be replaced with whatever replaces the 890. The 895 or whatever. [12:11:20] <palowoda> And than they go into the surplus market for more power savings. They are reliable machines. [12:11:46] * quasi is waiting very impatiently for niagra 2 - replacing a full e10k would be quite the power saving [12:11:49] <Tempt> More power use, you mean. [12:12:08] <palowoda> Yes. [12:12:12] <Tempt> The 880s are reliable and the surplus market has them going cheap. [12:12:26] <Tempt> Spare parts are plentiful. [12:12:29] <palowoda> And who buys them? [12:13:15] *** AtomicPunk has quit IRC [12:13:54] <Tempt> people like me! [12:14:03] <quasi> people like Tempt with too much money and cheap power rates ;) [12:14:11] <palowoda> And you pay a higher price for the power. [12:14:25] <Tempt> too much money? My 880 was cheaper than a decent PC. [12:15:12] <Tempt> I spend more on beer in a year than I spend on my home servers. [12:15:21] <Tempt> (well, perhaps not) [12:16:04] <quasi> ebay tends to disagree [12:17:43] <Tempt> I paid $1200 for mine [12:17:48] <Tempt> I saw one close for $760 recently [12:17:55] <Tempt> You have to watch and wait. [12:18:06] <quasi> $26,000.00 [12:18:12] <Tempt> If another ones turns up around the $500 mark I'd buy it for spares. [12:18:15] [12:18:28] <Tempt> The only reason I didn't buy the $760 one is our network guy bought it. [12:19:30] <st3fan> man open solaris runs smooooth on a core2quad [12:19:36] <Tempt> Australia's business market won't put second hand hardware into production and the home market doesn't want 880s much [12:21:07] <Auralis> st3fan: which mainboard? [12:21:14] <st3fan> not sure .. let me check [12:21:31] <st3fan> Supermicro PDSMi+ mainboard [12:21:38] <Tempt> I wouldn't hesitate to put a pair of surplus 880s into prod in a cluster. [12:22:43] * quasi wouldn't want to pay for service on 880s [12:22:48] <st3fan> Ahhhh latest solaris express has subversion :-) [12:22:50] <Tempt> screw the service [12:22:57] <Tempt> Buy a spare machine and keep it for parts. [12:23:12] *** vortex` has quit IRC [12:25:19] <Tempt> To be honest, I've never seen a serious fault on an 880/890 that wasn't caused by human error. [12:25:30] <Tempt> Failed disks, memory, cassinis. [12:25:32] <Tempt> That's it. [12:26:38] <Doc> woot! i just finished the internet! [12:26:38] <quasi> nah, not the most common boxes to break sysboards [12:27:12] <palowoda> Doc: You mean you got to the end? [12:27:15] <quasi> Doc: lucky you [12:28:00] <palowoda> Time to die. [12:28:11] <Tempt> quasi: Oh, I've seen a few with smashed backplanes, broken system boards etc, but it all comes down to human stupidity [12:28:14] <Doc> yup [12:28:35] <Doc> the last guy is fairly hard, but if you keep trying you can get past him without too much trouble [12:28:55] <palowoda> Now on to Internet 2. [12:29:17] <quasi> Tempt: I've seen them die for no apparent reason [12:30:54] <Tempt> quasi: Die completely? [12:31:33] <Tempt> quasi: Hit me with the details, might be educational.l [12:35:58] * Auralis remembers a v880 going up in flames 5 mintes after turning it on, inside a customers datacenter ... [12:37:06] <Pietro_S> when we speak about internet: This is nice and very known joke: "Advertisment: I sell whole internet on 4 589 654 231 DVDs or on 4 DVDs without porn." :-) [12:37:09] <palowoda> That was the cigar lighter feature. [12:37:09] <quasi> Tempt: for no apparent reason, just failed one night and I had to get our sun techs to replace it [12:37:53] <Tempt> Auralis: handy if you needed a smoke. [12:38:00] <Tempt> quasi: Failed SB or failed backplane? [12:38:01] <quasi> Pietro_S: any chance of geting it on floppies? ;) [12:38:06] <quasi> Tempt: SB [12:38:19] <Tempt> quasi: I'd believe it. This is why I've got two spare SBs for mine. [12:38:30] <palowoda> If you guys ever worked on an ECL based system and seen an ECL meltdown you know what fire means. [12:38:38] * quasi has to go - time to do some shopping and some cooking [12:40:07] <Tempt> palowoda: Big smoke? [12:40:22] <Tempt> I've seen the wreckage from a Solbourne machine burning up. [12:40:26] <palowoda> Blue flames from the top of a 8 foot card cage. [12:40:40] <palowoda> 1800 amps. [12:40:56] <Tempt> Burnt hot enough to completely trash the rack. Deformed the metal, melted stuff, filled an entire machineroom with soot. [12:40:57] <palowoda> Uninterrupted. [12:41:13] <palowoda> Heligon up to my neck. [12:41:16] <palowoda> sp? [12:41:34] <Tempt> Sounds joyful. What sort of machine? [12:41:45] <palowoda> VLSI tester. Megatest. [12:43:07] <palowoda> One machine I worked on was 47foot long. [12:43:53] <Tempt> They just don't make 'em that big anymore. [12:44:47] <palowoda> Friggen local fire cheif new me by name. It aways happened in the middle of the night too. [12:45:02] <Tempt> Always does. [12:45:14] <Tempt> I gather the machineroom didn't have gas supression. [12:45:56] <palowoda> No, and the gas came up through the floor so the panels would start shaking like an earthquake. [12:48:38] *** worklez has quit IRC [12:49:43] *** worklez has joined #opensolaris [12:59:55] *** deather_ has joined #opensolaris [13:08:06] <estibi> argh.... what is wrong with my hardware ... [13:08:09] <estibi> message BAD TRAP: type=e (#pf Page fault) rp=d20bbcb0 addr=48 occurred in module "unix" due to a NULL pointer dereference [13:08:15] <estibi> :/ [13:09:37] <Doc> that's not necessarily hardware [13:10:58] <estibi> cat /var/crash/greensrv/bounds [13:10:59] <estibi> 15 [13:11:24] *** boyd has quit IRC [13:12:13] *** cmihai has quit IRC [13:12:24] *** nostoi has quit IRC [13:12:37] *** ThEbUtChE has joined #OpenSolaris [13:16:43] *** cmihai has joined #OpenSolaris [13:17:20] *** deather has quit IRC [13:25:16] *** cypromis has joined #opensolaris [13:28:18] *** mazon is now known as Mazon [13:28:48] *** SymmHome has joined #opensolaris [13:31:45] *** Symmetria has quit IRC [13:39:20] *** kszwed has joined #opensolaris [13:53:17] *** triplah_ has quit IRC [13:54:53] *** deather_ is now known as deather [13:55:21] *** jamesd has joined #opensolaris [13:56:10] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jamesd [14:05:13] *** master_o1_master has joined #opensolaris [14:06:40] *** vmlemon has joined #opensolaris [14:11:28] *** jamesd_ has joined #opensolaris [14:16:09] *** master_of_master has quit IRC [14:16:16] *** jamesd__ has joined #opensolaris [14:16:28] *** jamesd_ has quit IRC [14:18:51] *** NikolaVeber has joined #opensolaris [14:23:18] *** LuckyLuk1 has joined #opensolaris [14:23:23] *** vmlemon_ has joined #opensolaris [14:23:38] *** bunker has joined #opensolaris [14:24:04] *** vmlemon has quit IRC [14:24:09] *** vmlemon_ is now known as vmlemon [14:37:16] *** jamesd_ has joined #opensolaris [14:37:50] *** jamesd__ has quit IRC [14:40:50] *** LuckyLuke has quit IRC [14:49:18] *** jamesd__ has joined #opensolaris [14:50:10] *** jamesd_ has quit IRC [14:55:25] *** jamesd__ has quit IRC [14:55:58] *** jamesd_ has joined #opensolaris [15:00:56] *** jamesd_ has quit IRC [15:01:03] *** jamesd__ has joined #opensolaris [15:03:54] *** jamesd__ has quit IRC [15:04:02] *** jamesd_ has joined #opensolaris [15:05:26] *** jamesd_ has quit IRC [15:05:51] *** jamesd_ has joined #opensolaris [15:21:54] *** Gropi has joined #opensolaris [15:25:17] *** jamesd__ has joined #opensolaris [15:25:29] *** jamesd_ has quit IRC [15:28:13] *** dsl668 has joined #opensolaris [15:28:32] *** jamesd__ has quit IRC [15:28:40] *** jamesd_ has joined #opensolaris [15:29:22] *** dsl668 has quit IRC [15:30:36] *** jamesd_ has quit IRC [15:30:49] *** jamesd has quit IRC [15:41:02] *** cypromis has quit IRC [15:49:14] *** kszwed has quit IRC [15:59:18] *** cypromis has joined #opensolaris [15:59:32] *** halton has quit IRC [16:03:57] *** aeroevan has joined #opensolaris [16:04:51] *** cypromis has quit IRC [16:08:52] *** kloczek has quit IRC [16:10:53] *** kloczek has joined #opensolaris [16:12:25] <trygvis> wtf? am I *required* to take backups of the filesystems I'm changing on the drive when installing b67? [16:12:31] <trygvis> that is just retarted [16:16:10] <trygvis> ARGH [16:16:45] *** halton has joined #opensolaris [16:19:54] <cmihai> trygvis: you're what now? [16:20:07] <trygvis> which build is closest to sol10u3? [16:20:09] <trygvis> hm? [16:20:32] <cmihai> Huh? [16:20:54] <trygvis> what? [16:20:58] <cmihai> What do you mean? [16:21:03] <cmihai> Which build is closest? [16:21:31] <trygvis> which part of the question did you not understand? [16:22:26] <cmihai> Oh, I understood the question, I just didn't understand what you meant by that. And I'm hoping you didn't mean: which Nevada build is the closest to Solaris 10 in terms of features / software versions. [16:23:04] <trygvis> whatever [16:23:30] <cmihai> Not that it would have ANY relevance, since Solaris 10 is a RELEASE, that's been frozen before OpenSolaris. [16:25:02] <trygvis> this is installer is the work thing I've ever seen [16:25:03] <Doc> SNV_1 [16:25:48] <palowoda> Yeah right. It was around snv_44 if I remember right. [16:26:00] <trygvis> thanks palowoda [16:26:49] <cmihai> Hm... Solaris 10 has MOST features frozen, will get security updates, drivers and will have some selected features backported (as it did ZFS). The fact Solaris 10 u3 came around svn_44 means absolutely nothing. [16:27:24] <Doc> Sol10 forked somewhere shortly before SNV_1 [16:27:35] <Doc> (well, technically, SNV forked from Sol10, but same diff) [16:28:23] <trygvis> holy fuck, I want to change a *single* option and I have to repeat the entire installation process [16:28:33] <Doc> what option? [16:29:03] <trygvis> any option, I pressed back on the final summary page [16:29:44] <trygvis> and it has to scan the entire hard drive and shit for existing packages again [16:30:22] <trygvis> and it's reading the entire CD again to calculate package sizes. yeah, like that would have changed since I started the installer [16:45:39] *** jlc has joined #opensolaris [16:48:57] *** LuckyLuke has joined #opensolaris [16:50:16] *** vmlemon has quit IRC [16:56:29] <trygvis> #%#)(/% [16:56:44] <trygvis> now I just ot a message saying "could not restore the backup" and then the whole thing just exited [17:02:00] *** vmlemon has joined #opensolaris [17:06:33] *** LuckyLuk1 has quit IRC [17:06:58] *** ThEbUtChE has quit IRC [17:22:38] *** sparc-kly_ has joined #opensolaris [17:26:38] *** jlc has quit IRC [17:39:42] *** sparc-kly has quit IRC [17:45:43] *** halton has left #opensolaris [17:55:14] *** vmlemon has quit IRC [17:55:41] *** vmlemon has joined #opensolaris [17:56:18] <axisys> got it [17:56:19] <axisys> http://www.uwyn.com/drone/log/bevinbot/opensolaris [17:57:51] <axisys> noow i need to find a way to crawl it [17:57:59] *** richlowe has quit IRC [17:58:25] <axisys> cool google crawls it [18:00:04] *** jamesd has joined #opensolaris [18:00:10] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jamesd [18:00:45] *** theRealballchalk has quit IRC [18:01:21] *** jamesd_ has joined #opensolaris [18:05:23] *** cmihai has quit IRC [18:31:05] *** sartek has joined #opensolaris [18:31:58] *** jpdrawneek has joined #opensolaris [18:46:21] *** nwf has quit IRC [18:49:02] *** Arnald has joined #opensolaris [18:49:05] *** nwf has joined #opensolaris [18:50:51] *** jamesd has quit IRC [18:50:58] *** gaz has joined #opensolaris [18:50:59] *** jamesd__ has joined #opensolaris [18:57:53] *** Murmuria has joined #opensolaris [19:02:22] *** jamesd__ has quit IRC [19:03:04] *** jamesd has joined #opensolaris [19:03:05] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jamesd [19:14:26] *** jamesd has quit IRC [19:14:34] *** jamesd__ has joined #opensolaris [19:15:28] *** bengtf has quit IRC [19:20:16] <trygvis> after inserting the second CD when installing b67 I'm getting "The path you specified does not contain the image for Solaris Software 2 for x86 Platforms.", but the path is correct and the image is loaded on that NFS share [19:21:26] <e^ipi> if you've got an NFS share set up for this purpose, why in the hell are you using the CD images? [19:21:40] <e^ipi> damn... it comes as a DVD, yo [19:22:04] <e^ipi> you set it up once, and 2 hours later you've got Solaris [19:22:08] <trygvis> yeah, but I only have a cd rom in this [19:22:14] <e^ipi> so what? [19:22:20] <trygvis> oh fuck off [19:22:34] <e^ipi> lofiadm(1M) [19:22:38] <e^ipi> seriously [19:23:09] <trygvis> and how am I supposed to boot the machine? voodoo? [19:23:10] <e^ipi> lofiadm -a $PWD/sol-nv-b63-dvd.iso && mount -F hsfs /dev/lofi/1 /mnt && share -F nfs /mnt [19:23:55] <e^ipi> then boot with CD1, and point it at <server ip>:/mnt as the installation media [19:24:30] <trygvis> and what the fuck do you think I'm doing? [19:24:38] <e^ipi> bugger it, i dunno [19:24:50] <e^ipi> using CD images instead of the DVD image to do the same thing [19:25:04] <e^ipi> which is just a dumb way of doing it [19:25:13] <trygvis> you're not helpful. shut up. [19:26:03] <e^ipi> i'm helpful, you're just frustrated so you've stopped listening [19:26:25] <e^ipi> which, while a perfectly normal human response, isn't going to solve your problem [19:27:06] <trygvis> how is using the dvd instead of the CDs going to help solaris understand that the disk is a solaris disk? [19:31:53] <e^ipi> let's try this again [19:32:31] <e^ipi> you are currently booting from the CD and using an NFS share when it asks you where you want to install from, correct? [19:33:05] <e^ipi> and on your NFS server you've got CD1.iso lofi mounted & shared [19:33:06] <e^ipi> ? [19:33:21] <trygvis> well, I tried to use the CDs as I didn't have an NFS server running when I started [19:33:45] <trygvis> so it started to install stuff from the CDs which worked fine [19:34:11] <trygvis> after installing the first CD it rebooted as expected and when it was going to read from CD #2 I got the error message [19:35:19] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris [19:37:15] <e^ipi> it can't read from the physical CD2, or it can't read it over NFS ? [19:37:52] <trygvis> neither [19:38:02] <trygvis> same error message [19:39:07] <e^ipi> i still maintain that the simplest solution would be to share the entire DVD image ( not the CD's ) over NFS, and immediately after booting the target off CD1, the first time it gives you any sort of choice between CD's or NFS, use NFS [19:39:41] <e^ipi> i've installed dozens of machines this way, and it's worked without a hitch every time [19:40:24] <trygvis> what a pita .. this SHOULD work just fine [19:40:41] <e^ipi> the installer is quite crap, you see, so you often have to work within it's framework rather than try to duct-tape the solution that works best for /you/ [19:40:52] <e^ipi> it's not just for fun that the installer's getting replaced [19:41:23] <trygvis> seriously, you can't say that should be expecting one of the two ways to install the OS is supposed to not work [19:41:32] <trygvis> I know the installer is crap, see above :) [19:41:51] *** bengtf_ has quit IRC [19:41:53] <trygvis> all right, I'll bite the bullet and get the DVD [19:41:58] <e^ipi> no, i'm not sure why it doesn't work [19:44:14] <st3fan> the dvd is a long download, but it is worth it :) [19:44:47] <trygvis> what takes even longer is to access the sun sites [19:45:49] *** jamesd_ has quit IRC [19:45:56] *** jamesd_ has joined #opensolaris [19:47:01] *** jamesd_ has quit IRC [19:47:06] *** jamesd_ has joined #opensolaris [19:48:07] <st3fan> trygvis: what part of the world are you in? [19:49:09] *** jamesd has joined #opensolaris [19:49:09] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jamesd [19:49:21] <trygvis> oslo, norway [19:49:29] <trygvis> just realized that I already have the image [19:49:32] <st3fan> i can put the dvd online on a fast server in amsterdam if you want [19:49:34] <st3fan> oh good :) [19:49:57] <trygvis> I did an LU until I realized that I had fucked up something else [19:50:26] *** bengtf_ has joined #opensolaris [19:50:27] <trygvis> thanks though [19:52:54] *** nightswim has quit IRC [19:53:24] *** het has quit IRC [19:57:21] *** jamesd__ has quit IRC [20:04:03] *** jamesd__ has joined #opensolaris [20:14:25] *** trs81 has quit IRC [20:16:40] *** jamesd has quit IRC [20:17:28] *** jamesd_ has quit IRC [20:18:31] *** cmihai has joined #OpenSolaris [20:18:32] *** henrik_ has joined #opensolaris [20:20:39] *** trs81 has joined #opensolaris [20:23:05] *** jlc has joined #opensolaris [20:28:59] *** theRealballchalk has joined #opensolaris [20:32:33] <jbk> afternoon [20:36:13] *** obsethryl has joined #opensolaris [20:39:10] *** LuckyLuk1 has joined #opensolaris [20:40:09] *** jlc has quit IRC [20:40:44] *** GeneralDelta has joined #opensolaris [20:42:16] *** jlc has joined #opensolaris [20:42:18] <GeneralDelta> I just moved from Solaris 10 to Solaris Nevada b67: does anyone what changes I make to the GRUB menu.lst file to have it boot the 32-bit kernel? [20:44:31] <cmihai> GeneralDelta: yeah... [20:44:41] <cmihai> GeneralDelta: As of SVN 57 or something it uses direct boot. [20:44:48] <cmihai> No more need to multiboot, boot the kernel directly. [20:44:51] <cmihai> See the onnv flag days. [20:46:06] <cmihai> GeneralDelta: http://opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/pages/2007011901/ - DirectBoot. [20:46:20] <GeneralDelta> cmihai: I'm a real newb. The only reason I know as much about this as I do is because Coffman and a few others helped me with the modifications yesterday to Solaris 10. :) [20:46:40] <GeneralDelta> thank you, i"m look'n now :) [20:48:32] <cmihai> Scroll down to the bottom, there's examples: [20:48:38] <cmihai> title directboot Solaris [20:48:38] <cmihai> kernel$ /platform/i86pc/kernel/$ISADIR/unix [20:48:38] <cmihai> module$ /platform/i86pc/$ISADIR/boot_archive [20:48:42] <cmihai> But you need to modify them. [20:48:46] <GeneralDelta> k, so where is the part where you can make the $ISADIR not expand to amd64 [20:49:00] <cmihai> Do a ls and see where "unix" is actually installed, not exapanded. [20:49:07] <cmihai> GeneralDelta: Well, that's just a path mate. [20:49:14] <cmihai> Modify it and remove the $ISADIR variable. [20:49:25] <cmihai> ISADIR -- infrastructure, will be amd64 or something. [20:49:57] <GeneralDelta> So I just remove the $ISADIR variable and it will boot 32-bit? [20:49:58] <cmihai> Do a ls /platform/i86pc/kernel and see your options mate. [20:50:01] <cmihai> Don't REMOVE it. [20:50:06] <GeneralDelta> k [20:50:32] <cmihai> Look, you're giving GRUB a PATH to the kernel (unix). [20:50:36] <cmihai> Make sure it's the PATH you want. [20:51:47] <GeneralDelta> I have: amd64 cpu dacf drv kmdb mach misc sys unix [20:52:17] <GeneralDelta> So in Solaris 10 it was unix that had the 32-bit [20:52:24] <GeneralDelta> would that be the same here as well? [20:53:03] <GeneralDelta> but that is already in the file... ??? I'm confused :( [20:53:40] <cmihai> /platform/i86pc/kernel/unix: ELF 32-bit LSB executable 80386 Version 1 [TSC], dynamically linked, not stripped, no debugging information available [20:53:55] <cmihai> /platform/i86pc/kernel/amd64/unix: ELF 64-bit LSB executable AMD64 Version 1 [PAUSE SSE CMOV TSC], dynamically linked, not stripped, no debugging information available [20:54:02] <cmihai> Come on mate, it's not that hard to figure out :P [20:54:18] <GeneralDelta> How long have you been working with Solaris? [20:54:21] *** Yamazaki-kun has joined #opensolaris [20:54:28] <cmihai> Here's the command you type to figure what a file is: [20:54:29] <cmihai> file! [20:54:30] <cmihai> cmsol% file /platform/i86pc/kernel/amd64/unix [20:54:34] <cmihai> :-] [20:54:41] <cmihai> And you get that kind of output. [20:54:58] <GeneralDelta> thanks, I'll try that [20:55:54] <cmihai> Basically you're looking for unix to boot it. [20:55:56] <cmihai> find /platform -name unix [20:56:23] <cmihai> Then you find out what they are. [20:56:25] <cmihai> So: [20:56:27] <cmihai> file `find /platform -name unix` [20:56:39] <cmihai> Gives you kernels, 32 or 64 bits and type. [20:57:15] <GeneralDelta> That's a neat command. Thank you. [20:57:21] *** LuckyLuke has quit IRC [20:57:42] <GeneralDelta> but my boot entry looks like this: [20:57:44] <GeneralDelta> title Solaris Nevada snv_67 X86 [20:57:44] <GeneralDelta> kernel$ /platform/i86pc/kernel/$ISADIR/unix [20:57:44] <GeneralDelta> module$ /platform/i86pc/$ISADIR/boot_archive [20:57:59] <cmihai> Nice to find debug kernels too :-) [20:58:05] <cmihai> GeneralDelta: right. [20:58:16] <cmihai> isainfo -vvv [20:58:18] <cmihai> Type that. [20:58:25] <GeneralDelta> so if to make it point to the unix file... [20:58:28] <GeneralDelta> k [20:59:17] <cmihai> That gives you supported platforms. If you see 64 bit, ISADIR will point to the amd64 kernel in your case. Want to force boot the 32 bit, point to /platform/i86pc/kernel/unix. [20:59:19] <GeneralDelta> 64-bit amd64 applications [20:59:19] <GeneralDelta> tscp ahf cx16 sse3 sse2 sse fxsr amd_3dnowx amd_3dnow amd_mmx mmx cmov [20:59:19] <GeneralDelta> amd_sysc cx8 tsc fpu [20:59:20] <GeneralDelta> 32-bit i386 applications [20:59:20] <GeneralDelta> tscp ahf cx16 sse3 sse2 sse fxsr amd_3dnowx amd_3dnow amd_mmx mmx cmov [20:59:20] <GeneralDelta> amd_sysc cx8 tsc fpu [20:59:29] <cmihai> Well, then why boot the 32 bit kernel? [20:59:42] <cmihai> You have a AMD64 or some kind of EM64T CPU. [20:59:49] <cmihai> It supports 64bits. [21:00:10] <GeneralDelta> because when I install kqemu it only installs the 64 bit, and I need to have 32 bit acceleration [21:00:27] <cmihai> Isn't worth it man :-]. [21:00:43] <GeneralDelta> kqemu states that you need to the host kernel = kqemu = guest kernel [21:01:02] <cmihai> You lose a lot of other stuff. Besides, kqemu doesn't help THAT much. It also breaks some clients like OpenBSD. [21:01:40] <cmihai> Unless you reall need Windows in Solaris, where I suggest you buy a SunPCI, or try Win4Sol, I think that supports acceleration in a 64 bit kernel. Or not, find out :-). [21:01:53] <GeneralDelta> well if I can't get a VMWare like application to run correctly Solaris will be of limited usefulness to me. :( [21:02:16] <cmihai> Let me show you something :-) [21:02:34] <cmihai> http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/2779/installingpt5.jpg\ [21:02:38] <cmihai> http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/2779/installingpt5.jpg [21:02:47] <GeneralDelta> what I need is to convert a VMWare image that runs a Linux security device [21:03:02] <cmihai> Yeah, qemu can convert VMware images. [21:03:16] <cmihai> Unless they're split. [21:03:26] <cmihai> Then you need to dump | restore. [21:03:49] <cmihai> But anyway, Linux runs fine without kqemu. [21:04:13] <GeneralDelta> dude you have a lot of stuff running! :) [21:04:28] <cmihai> Check that screenshot, I've got Solaris 9, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, CentoS, Ubuntu, some Windows and a bunch of other stuff running, qemu rocks :-) [21:04:54] <GeneralDelta> My problem is this is a proprietary setup that you can't just install [21:05:08] <cmihai> http://www.myl.ro/forum/sources/Gallery/display.php?t=f&id=511&ext=jpg - Minix :-) [21:05:17] <cmihai> GeneralDelta: what is it exactly? [21:05:20] <jlc> http://pastebin.ca/609206 [21:05:21] <cmihai> And what do you mean you can't install? [21:05:26] <jlc> seems a bit odd? [21:05:29] <cmihai> You can always dump | restore and it will work. [21:05:52] <cmihai> jlc: seems normal. [21:06:01] <cmihai> jlc: you need to define JAVA_HOME and CLASS [21:06:22] <jlc> the one in the 5.5 dir fires up fine [21:06:36] <cmihai> Erm CLASSPATH [21:06:41] <jlc> so Im confused ;) [21:06:42] <cmihai> It's probably a script. [21:06:50] <cmihai> That uses --javahome [21:07:09] <cmihai> Besides, doesn't NetBeans look for it's own Java? [21:07:14] <cmihai> Hm.. no, it doesn't.. does it? [21:07:24] <jlc> no [21:07:24] <cmihai> Well, anyway, define JAVA_HOME and CLASSPATH environment variables :-) [21:07:42] <jlc> but why would 5.5 work and not 5.5.1 after install [21:07:47] <cmihai> Cuz you don't have those. [21:07:53] <cmihai> echo $JAVA_HOME [21:07:54] <cmihai> Nothing [21:07:56] <cmihai> clear? :P [21:08:17] <jlc> still seems odd ;) [21:08:17] <jlc> yeah, but still doesn't make sense :) [21:08:18] *** trs81 has quit IRC [21:09:32] <jlc> JAVA_HOME=/usr/java [21:09:32] <jlc> JAVA_HOME=/usr/java [21:09:32] <jlc> JAVA_HOME=/usr/java [21:09:37] <jlc> oops [21:09:45] <jlc> that is correct isn't it [21:10:10] <jamesd__> no the real java home is variable, its either in the coffee pot or in my stomach or on its way to the ocean. [21:10:25] <jamesd__> ;-) [21:10:25] <jlc> /opt/netbeans-5.5.1/bin/netbeans --jdkhome /usr/java [21:10:29] <jlc> works [21:10:38] <jlc> lol [21:11:58] *** Dink has joined #opensolaris [21:14:31] *** trs81 has joined #opensolaris [21:15:00] <jlc> brb [21:15:07] *** jlc has quit IRC [21:15:38] *** jlc has joined #opensolaris [21:18:54] <trygvis> e^ipi: still no go, I don't have a NFS server that talks to solaris. only linux boxes here [21:19:12] <trygvis> anyway, I just skipped the installations, but can I somehow install the software later on? [21:19:38] <trygvis> in an easy way (pkg-add is not easy) [21:24:39] <GeneralDelta> cmihai: mind telling me how to make Solaris boot only 32-bit? [21:25:42] *** jlc has quit IRC [21:29:02] <cmihai> GeneralDelta: I was under the impression that I did... [21:30:07] *** nightswim has joined #opensolaris [21:30:09] <GeneralDelta> I don't know what the statements would be that I add/change in the GRUB munu.lst [21:30:22] <cmihai> Oh bloody hell [21:30:54] <GeneralDelta> sorry, You're just too smart for me. ;-) [21:31:10] <cmihai> Ohright, let's take this slow. [21:31:22] <GeneralDelta> thank yo [21:31:25] <GeneralDelta> you [21:31:56] <cmihai> Let's start with the notion of multiboot and directboot. [21:32:11] <cmihai> Before directboot, grub booted multiboot that loaded the kernel. [21:32:46] <cmihai> As of Nevada Build 57, we have DirectBoot, just point grub at the kernel (unix) and it's off. [21:33:02] <cmihai> The change is listed, as always, in the OpenSolaris flag days page. [21:33:09] <cmihai> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/56-60/;jsessionid=06F69B666CBC78EA04A4231C0881D919 - this. [21:33:13] <GeneralDelta> I read that [21:33:36] <cmihai> Click the PSARC and you get http://opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/pages/2007011901/ - this. [21:33:53] <cmihai> Scroll down to the bottom, and you'll see an example: [21:34:04] <cmihai> *************** MORE menu.lst DETAILS ********************* [21:34:04] <cmihai> The old default menu.lst entry was [21:34:04] <cmihai> title multiboot Solaris [21:34:04] <cmihai> kernel /platform/i86pc/multiboot [21:34:09] <cmihai> module /platform/i86pc/boot_archive [21:34:16] <cmihai> As you can see, this is the old entry that used multiboot. [21:34:20] <cmihai> You need to change this to: [21:34:26] <cmihai> The new entry is: [21:34:26] <cmihai> title directboot Solaris [21:34:26] <cmihai> kernel$ /platform/i86pc/kernel/$ISADIR/unix [21:34:27] <cmihai> module$ /platform/i86pc/$ISADIR/boot_archive [21:34:42] <GeneralDelta> that's what I have, and it boot 64 and not JUST 32 [21:34:43] <cmihai> Now the ISADIR is a variable. [21:34:44] *** iron_angel has joined #opensolaris [21:34:45] <cmihai> As that explains it: [21:34:46] <cmihai> The kernel$/module$/$ISADIR syntax is a new extension to GRUB. It [21:34:46] <cmihai> automatically expands $ISADIR to "amd64" on machines that support [21:34:47] <cmihai> 64-bit kernels. [21:35:00] <cmihai> Now the command I gave you before: [21:35:16] <cmihai> "isainfo -vvv" clearly states your machine supports amd64. [21:35:21] <cmihai> SO: that ISADIR will expand to amd64. [21:35:21] <GeneralDelta> yes [21:35:28] <cmihai> If you don't have amd64 it won't expand. [21:35:34] <GeneralDelta> so how do I make is stop doing that [21:35:40] <cmihai> And you will get... /platform/i86pc/kernel/unix [21:35:43] <cmihai> THINK [21:35:48] <cmihai> The variable doesn't matter. [21:35:49] <GeneralDelta> I don't what amd64 support [21:35:55] <cmihai> Expension takes place BEFORE it's exectued. [21:35:57] <cmihai> executed. [21:36:06] <cmihai> hence: you can "expand" it to whatever you want, yourself. [21:36:13] <cmihai> First step: figure out where the 32 bit kernel is: [21:36:39] <JohannaIsNotHere> On the Win32 platform aka windows.h, there is a way to play sounds asynchronously from a file ( PlaySound( filename, NULL, SND_ASYNC | SND_FILENAME) ) ... I am wondering if there is an analogue on Unix/Linux platforms in something like the XLib library? [21:36:45] <cmihai> file `find /platform -name unix` [21:36:47] <GeneralDelta> should be /platform/i86pc/kernel/unix [21:36:50] <GeneralDelta> I think [21:36:52] <cmihai> Exactly. [21:36:58] <cmihai> Don't presume. [21:36:59] <cmihai> FIND OUT. [21:37:21] <cmihai> Do the same for both entries with ISADIR, "expand" them yourself to the 32 bit kernel path. [21:37:26] <cmihai> It's not really that hard. [21:37:32] <cmihai> Better yet: [21:37:37] <cmihai> add another menu.lst entry [21:37:39] <cmihai> Solaris 32bit [21:37:40] <cmihai> ok? [21:38:11] <GeneralDelta> well I did file on that I can I got: bash-3.00# ./gcc -v [21:38:11] <GeneralDelta> bash: ./gcc: Number of symbolic links encountered during path name traversal exceeds MAXSYMLINKS [21:38:20] <cmihai> wtf [21:38:23] <cmihai> What gcc [21:38:34] <cmihai> What bash for that matter. [21:38:39] <GeneralDelta> oops [21:38:40] <iron_angel> ack, Sun sent me too old a copy of Studio 11 :/ [21:38:46] <cmihai> SUE THEM [21:38:47] <GeneralDelta> wrong copy and past [21:39:00] <iron_angel> <grin> [21:39:07] <iron_angel> Fortunately, I can download the right one. [21:39:15] <cmihai> Great, problem solved. [21:40:25] <GeneralDelta> bash-3.00# file unix [21:40:26] <GeneralDelta> unix: ELF 32-bit LSB executable 80386 Version 1 [PAUSE SSE2 SSE FXSR SEP CX8 TSC FPU], dynamically linked, not stripped, no debugging information available [21:40:35] <GeneralDelta> That's what I got with the file command [21:42:51] <cmihai> Use full path.. [21:42:53] <cmihai> anyway, that's good. [21:42:56] <cmihai> 32 bit kernel. [21:43:01] <cmihai> The one in amd64 says 64bit. [21:43:10] <cmihai> Just add ANOTHER entry to grub. [21:43:11] <cmihai> Add 2. [21:43:16] <cmihai> 64bit with ISADIR [21:43:18] <cmihai> 32bit without [21:43:20] <cmihai> and enjoy. [21:43:29] <cmihai> put the 32 bit default and have fun. [21:43:56] <GeneralDelta> so change "kernel$ /platform/i86pc/kernel/$ISADIR/unix" to "kernel$ /platform/i86pc/kernel/unix" [21:44:15] <cmihai> And please, don't ask another silly question before you test it, I really don't want to insult you. I am very nice, but I snap suddenly. [21:46:59] <cmihai> GeneralDelta: and again, don't change, add both, you really don't want to be stuck _not_ being able to boot and having to figure it out from GRUB. [21:48:12] <GeneralDelta> yeah I have added [21:48:16] <GeneralDelta> kernel$ /platform/i86pc/kernel/unix [21:48:16] <GeneralDelta> module$ /platform/i86pc/boot_archive [21:48:23] <GeneralDelta> and I am rebooting now [21:48:46] <cmihai> Great. Then find out what kernel you're running. [21:48:54] <cmihai> As I've said before, "isainfo -vvv" [21:49:30] <JohannaIsNotHere> does anyone know or do I pretty much need to implement it myself? [21:49:35] <GeneralDelta> Yeah I know the isainfo command. ;-) but it said 32-bit on boot so I'm guessing that it's 32-bit. :) [21:50:11] <JohannaIsNotHere> I just want a simple utility type system call that plays wavs async for testing purposes without having to incorportate a full library [21:50:38] <JohannaIsNotHere> Just wondering if I would be reinventing the wheel if I implemented it [21:51:02] *** cypromis has joined #opensolaris [21:51:28] <iron_angel> JohannaIsNotHere: probably would be. ISTR that sox has utilities for that, and so forth, but it might also be heavier than you're looking for [21:51:40] <cmihai> GeneralDelta: so, you're set then? :-] [21:51:44] * iron_angel hopes the XFCE build specs will set -j5... [21:52:21] <GeneralDelta> Yep, it worked. Thank you. [21:53:32] *** pguser has joined #OpenSolaris [21:53:58] *** dunc has joined #opensolaris [21:55:10] *** jamesd_ has joined #opensolaris [21:55:11] *** jamesd__ has quit IRC [21:56:20] *** jamesd_ has quit IRC [21:56:33] *** jamesd_ has joined #opensolaris [21:59:14] *** sartek has quit IRC [21:59:41] *** henrik_ has quit IRC [22:03:01] <iron_angel> whoo, the new CPU is now working right. [22:04:57] *** sartek has joined #opensolaris [22:05:47] *** jamesd_ has quit IRC [22:09:01] *** cypromis has quit IRC [22:11:21] *** GeneralDelta has quit IRC [22:12:11] <twincest> ho annoying, -xarch=amd64 in studio 12 prints a warning message [22:12:40] *** jamesd has joined #opensolaris [22:12:41] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jamesd [22:12:57] <postwait> yeah.. and it's only amd64 that's depricated. [22:13:07] <postwait> the sparc stuff doesn't seem to complain [22:18:48] <pguser> Ubuntu ate my grub and now windows and solaris 10 11/06 won't boot [22:18:52] <pguser> what can I do? [22:20:46] <pguser> Ubuntu ate my grub and now windows and solaris 10 11/06 won't boot [22:21:15] <pguser> am I doomed to reinstall solaris and windows because Ubuntu can't install a grub that SHARES? [22:21:24] <iron_angel> one sec [22:21:49] <iron_angel> Windows is still there, as is Solaris. You just need to reinstall the Solaris grub. [22:21:55] <pguser> how do I do that? [22:22:00] <iron_angel> But, I don't recall offhand how to do this. [22:22:03] <pguser> i have my cds [22:22:06] <pguser> my solaris cds [22:22:19] <iron_angel> You might try using, say, Belenix as a rescue CD, but it might be doable with the SXCE/Sol 10 install CDs too. [22:22:24] <pguser> iron_angel: the solaris group couldn't help me with this [22:22:28] *** m0le has joined #opensolaris [22:22:35] * iron_angel has only SPARC machines around ATM, so can't easily replicate the condition. [22:22:38] <pguser> so i am very scared that I may have to reinstall solaris and windows [22:22:57] <pguser> it took me a week to get solaris the way I like it [22:23:02] <iron_angel> pguser: the real issue is that the GRUB that Ubuntu installs is the standard grub which doesn't know how to load Solaris (but can load Windows, just fine). [22:23:04] <pguser> with Sun studio 12 [22:23:12] <iron_angel> The Solaris GRUB, OTOH, can easily load Linux. [22:23:19] <iron_angel> Hmm... 12? [22:23:22] <pguser> iron_angel: I can't boot to windows either [22:23:23] * iron_angel must check that out. [22:23:39] <iron_angel> pguser: ack! Are the partitions still there? [22:23:49] <pguser> I was dual booting with solaris 10 and windows and then installed ubuntu [22:23:54] <pguser> iron_angel: i think so [22:24:06] <pguser> I see my windows folder in ubuntu [22:24:40] <iron_angel> pguser: ok... pastebin your grub.conf / menu.lst somewhere, please. [22:24:47] <iron_angel> Also, which Ubuntu was it? 7.04? [22:24:59] <pguser> iron_angel 7.04 [22:25:12] * iron_angel nods. [22:25:21] <pguser> i gave up in the ubuntu irc channel they are completely clueless [22:25:30] <iron_angel> It's *possible* that the grub they ship can load Solaris too, it might have those patches... [22:25:45] <tomww> to reinstall the solaris-grub, a solaris-boot-cd with the shell schould be enough [22:25:53] <iron_angel> yeah, it should. [22:26:00] <tomww> s/sch/sh/ [22:26:16] <iron_angel> I don't have a Solaris x86 machine handy right now, so I can give you general steps but not click-for-click. [22:26:27] <tomww> boot to the shell, mount /dev/dsk/c<yourdisk> /a [22:26:33] <pguser> do you want to see my menu.lst? [22:26:41] <pguser> its pretty long though [22:26:42] <iron_angel> yes [22:26:49] <iron_angel> pastebin it. [22:26:54] <pguser> title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.20-16-generic [22:26:54] <iron_angel> http://pastebin.ca [22:26:56] <pguser> root (hd0,2) [22:26:58] <pguser> kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-16-generic root=UUID=16bbe69d-913e-404e-88ee-c0cacb4cd9a3 ro quiet splash [22:27:00] <pguser> initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-16-generic [22:27:01] <pguser> quiet [22:27:02] <pguser> savedefault [22:27:03] <pguser> title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.20-16-generic (recovery mode) [22:27:05] <pguser> root (hd0,2) [22:27:06] <pguser> kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-16-generic root=UUID=16bbe69d-913e-404e-88ee-c0cacb4cd9a3 ro single [22:27:08] <pguser> initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-16-generic [22:27:10] <pguser> title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.20-15-generic [22:27:11] <pguser> root (hd0,2) [22:27:12] <pguser> kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-15-generic root=UUID=16bbe69d-913e-404e-88ee-c0cacb4cd9a3 ro quiet splash [22:27:15] <pguser> initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-15-generic [22:27:16] <pguser> quiet [22:27:18] <pguser> savedefault [22:27:19] <pguser> title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.20-15-generic (recovery mode) [22:27:21] <pguser> root (hd0,2) [22:27:23] <pguser> kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-15-generic root=UUID=16bbe69d-913e-404e-88ee-c0cacb4cd9a3 ro single [22:27:24] <pguser> initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-15-generic [22:27:27] <pguser> title Ubuntu, memtest86+ [22:27:28] <pguser> root (hd0,2) [22:27:30] <pguser> kernel /boot/memtest86+.bin [22:27:32] <pguser> quiet [22:27:34] <pguser> ### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST [22:27:37] <pguser> # This is a divider, added to separate the menu items below from the Debian [22:27:38] <pguser> # ones. [22:27:40] <pguser> title Other operating systems: [22:27:43] <pguser> root [22:27:44] <pguser> # This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS [22:27:47] <pguser> # on /dev/hda2 [22:27:48] <pguser> title Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional [22:27:50] <pguser> root (hd0,1) [22:27:53] <pguser> savedefault [22:27:54] <pguser> makeactive [22:27:56] <pguser> chainloader +1 [22:27:58] <pguser> http://pastebin.ca/609314 [22:28:37] <iron_angel> The Windows entry doesn't work? [22:28:42] <pguser> nope [22:29:15] <pguser> it starts then bsod on me on the splash screen. Says something about the harddrive. [22:29:18] <pguser> yet when I boot into ubuntu, I can see my windows partition [22:29:25] *** kloczek has quit IRC [22:29:40] <iron_angel> oh. Did Ubuntu have to move the partition or something? [22:30:13] <pguser> iron_angel: nope [22:30:20] <pguser> i had a spare partition ready to go [22:30:28] <iron_angel> hm [22:30:32] <pguser> because I was planning on installing linux [22:30:42] <pguser> and i thought i'd install linux last [22:30:50] <iron_angel> That sounds like Windows being lame to me, but I suspect the solaris install is just fine. [22:30:55] <pguser> because before, installing linux last was teh way to go [22:31:12] <pguser> but ubuntu let me down [22:31:19] <iron_angel> So, what I'd do, is stick that menu on a pendrive/floppy/dvd/etc, and boot to a shell via the Solaris install CDs. [22:31:28] <iron_angel> Yeah, Ubuntu is too automagical :/ [22:31:52] <iron_angel> Gentoo or the like last would have been OK, though you'd have had to boot into Solaris once to set up GRUB. [22:35:31] <pguser> i'll probably just reinstall solaris and windows [22:35:41] <iron_angel> if you really want to... [22:36:04] <iron_angel> you might well be able to reinstall both of them *without* formatting, and save at least some settings. [22:36:04] <pguser> now, I have a question. Lets say that that I want windows 2000, ubuntu and solaris 10 to triple boot. What should be my install order? [22:36:11] <pguser> iron: how? [22:36:14] <iron_angel> Windows, Linux, Solaris [22:36:22] <pguser> ok [22:36:33] <pguser> I have those two backward [22:36:36] <pguser> hehe [22:36:39] <pguser> sucks to be me [22:36:44] <iron_angel> If it was any distro but Ubuntu, really, it would only matter that it's Windows first. [22:37:01] <pguser> iron: ubuntu is very microsofty in that regard [22:37:17] <pguser> very sneaky about eliminating the competiton [22:37:24] <iron_angel> pguser: just save the data on those slices (Solaris), or don't format (Windows) [22:37:25] <iron_angel> pguser: it tries so hard to be easy, that it sometimes makes gratuitously poor choices. [22:37:25] <m0le> Anyone here speak lawyernese? [22:37:35] <pguser> why is ubuntu so scared of solaris? [22:37:37] <iron_angel> It's not like Windows here, where it *intentionally* blows up competing products. [22:38:00] <iron_angel> It just assumes that the Solaris slice is Linux swap, they're both type 0x82 [22:38:51] <iron_angel> also, it sees GRUB in the boot sector and assumes that GRUB is GRUB. [22:39:01] <iron_angel> (while, in fact, Sun ships a modified one) [22:40:45] <m0le> iron_angel: You pretty familiar with the CDDL and GPL working together? Or should I contact an attorney? [22:41:32] <iron_angel> iron_angel: err, not very... Yah, I'd say call a lawyer/paralegal on that... [22:41:57] <pguser> iron_angel: it assumes my solaris partition is a linux swap partittion? oh shit [22:42:44] <iron_angel> But it *shouldn't* initialize it as one unless you tell it to. But I could be horribly wrong here. [22:42:45] <m0le> Well the question I had was just could I release software for the CDDL'ed solaris and the software be GPL'ed [22:42:59] <iron_angel> m0le: now that, you can do. GRUB, for one big example. [22:43:10] <iron_angel> or GNU awk, or lots of other stuff. [22:44:34] <m0le> iron_angel: SWEET! Be looking for a very interesting project coming soon, like two to three weeks. Also mixing the CDDL code with GPL code is probably not good thing to do with the kernel I am sure, if it is ok i just would like to know. [22:45:27] <iron_angel> no, mixing them I don't think is OK, but writing GPLed software with the intent to run it on OpenSolaris is fine. [22:45:48] <iron_angel> (just like running it on BSD/Windows/AIX/HP-UX would be) [22:46:03] <m0le> Oh Ok because I had an idea of using the gnu/linux modules to work with the open solaris kernel [22:46:22] <m0le> well its actually way more complex than that but just trying to keep it short and simple [22:47:29] <iron_angel> oooh, gotcha. Not sure about that, but if it's a wrapper/thunking-layer, that might be OK... Ye'd have to ask an expert on that one. [22:48:17] <m0le> Yeah that is what i was kind of afraid of, but I think both communities would benefit greatly along with the BSD community as well. Just all this lawyernese has me wanting to poke my eyes out. [22:48:19] <iron_angel> which made me think... I really hope the drivers for later Sun framebuffers eventually get opened, even if it's open-with-a-proprietary-library for the stuff they can't worm out of NDAs on. [22:48:45] <iron_angel> I'd like to see the six big free OS projects make special license exceptions for each other. [22:49:05] <pguser> what sun really needs to do is have a kernelnewbies site [22:49:10] <pguser> like linux has [22:49:23] <iron_angel> For example, the fact that Linux had an EMU10k1 driver for *four years* before FreeBSD did, because they can't exchange code, is deplorable. [22:49:25] <pguser> with some hello world type tutorials for writing drivers under solaris [22:49:26] <m0le> Yeah now that would be a very very interesting idea and so much would come of it iron_angel. [22:49:29] <iron_angel> Or the ZFS and UFS stuff. [22:49:41] <iron_angel> or EXT2/3. [22:49:52] <m0le> Well they can exchange code, its just the derived works and legalities and such that come into play. [22:50:00] <iron_angel> Linux's weaksauce UFS and FreeBSD's poor EXT? drivers are useless too. [22:50:11] <iron_angel> Well, precisely. Hence the need for a specific exception. [22:50:35] <m0le> I like FreeBSD, but some of the community there is some anti-gpl'ing folks LOL [22:50:59] <m0le> I really just believe we should all be friends =) [22:51:04] <iron_angel> yah, alas, that's the stuff of which flamewars are made :( [22:51:26] <iron_angel> at the very least, dual-licensing for drivers is needed. Or special exceptions, or something. [22:52:51] <m0le> I knows, i hate it too. But bigger question is if I reroll the open solaris kernel, is it possible that I could add like a hal daemon for it, hrm now there is an idea [22:53:37] <iron_angel> some kind of OS-agnostic driver layer with the rest of the kernel riding on top of it? [22:53:42] <iron_angel> like Xen, almost? [22:53:43] <m0le> sort of [22:53:52] <m0le> a little different and less of a memory hog [22:53:54] <iron_angel> Except that Xen has some limitations as I understand it. [22:54:12] <iron_angel> (like no HW-accelerated 3D, which is an issue for non-server stuff) [22:54:21] <iron_angel> 3D: it's not just for games anymore. [22:54:40] *** cypromis has joined #opensolaris [22:54:58] <m0le> yes it does, see I am a gnu/linux guy and I would like to venture into making open solaris into a better platform. as well solaris was sort of what captivated me to even use a unix variant. [22:55:38] <iron_angel> foo. XFCE is still compiling! [22:55:48] <m0le> wow, how long angel? [22:56:13] <iron_angel> eh, about 1.2 hours now. [22:56:16] <iron_angel> Ultra 80. [22:56:23] <m0le> oh wow [22:56:29] <iron_angel> and that does include fetch time, so it's not totally fair. [22:56:43] <m0le> oh ok i was about to say wow [22:57:00] <iron_angel> also, it doesn't seem to be running the CPUs flat out, either. [22:57:16] <m0le> resource allocation for the loss there LOL [22:57:25] <iron_angel> probably IO-bound. [22:57:34] <m0le> yeah i would guess so. [22:58:01] * m0le Solaris nearing completion of install on test laptop =) [22:58:28] <m0le> You ever try Nexenta iron_angel? [22:58:33] <iron_angel> Not yet. [22:58:43] <iron_angel> So far most of my Solaris experimentation is on SPARC. [22:59:05] <iron_angel> So I'm mostly using SXCE and Sol 10 U3 [22:59:16] <m0le> I was impressed with the driver detection but wow at the lack of functions in gnome or the term not even being able to be used and logins failing [22:59:23] <iron_angel> ouch. [22:59:31] <iron_angel> Well, it's still an alpha release, no? [22:59:47] <m0le> yeah, it installed smoothly but I do like the bleeding edge [22:59:48] <m0le> hehe [23:00:03] * iron_angel nodnods. [23:00:12] <iron_angel> Well, even SXCE has its foibles. [23:00:17] <iron_angel> 'language CD', anyone? [23:00:35] <m0le> Oh I know, but i want to keep hacking around with it and make some good come of it and publish to the community =) [23:01:02] * iron_angel nodnods. "Oh, agreed!" [23:01:14] * iron_angel is debating which one to use on the Blade 2000 when it arrives... [23:01:18] <m0le> Like introduction of an easy to use package management facility, say porting rpm to work with it =) [23:01:35] <iron_angel> I wonder if the OSOL XFCE pkgbuilds will work with Sol 10... [23:01:45] <iron_angel> m0le: is RPM really much better than sysV packages? [23:02:00] <m0le> iron_angel: when you want to attract devs it can be. [23:02:07] <m0le> and new users angel [23:02:23] <iron_angel> I think that pkgbuild uses the same style spec files as RPM, actually. [23:02:41] <m0le> See ideally you want a user base(for ideas) and a developers base(code) and together we work together. [23:02:43] <twincest> turning solaris into linux to attract new users would sor tof defeat the point :) [23:02:59] <m0le> hrm true twincest [23:03:03] <twincest> people may as well just use linux if they want linux [23:03:14] <m0le> yeah never looked at it like that. [23:03:42] <m0le> just thought it would be kind of nice to get some of those type of installers for new users to the OS [23:03:51] <twincest> although there is an rpm-baed softare collection for solaris (and other systems) - openpkg [23:03:56] <iron_angel> I'm not sure that RPM would help, but perhaps unifying patches, upgrades and such under one apt-like tool would be nice. [23:04:07] <iron_angel> pkg-get is a start, but right now it's tied to blastwave XOR sunfreeware. [23:04:21] <twincest> yeah, i see a lot of people complaining about sysv packages, but what they really want is an apt-get-alike [23:04:32] *** Atomdrache has joined #opensolaris [23:04:41] <iron_angel> This is a large part of the reason I gripe about rpm, too. [23:04:42] <m0le> <--------just prefers anything over .exe [23:04:49] <iron_angel> yes, agreed. [23:04:59] <iron_angel> That's nice for Joe-user-who-wants-to-install-one-app [23:05:00] <pguser> Dear Jesus, Please guide me on getting my windows and solaris partitions back. Amen. [23:05:03] <iron_angel> but not so hot for admins. [23:05:27] <iron_angel> pguser: first step is to boot into a Solaris rescue shell somehow, I'd say. [23:05:33] <m0le> yeah, i have been using red hat since 2.0 so sorry if that came out wrong =) [23:05:36] <iron_angel> If you can't do it from the original CDs, try Belenix. [23:05:45] *** Tpenta has quit IRC [23:05:46] * iron_angel nodnods. [23:06:52] <pguser> i'm on dsl. downloading belenix will take a long time [23:07:17] <m0le> should not take that long pguser, 20-40 minutes tops [23:07:18] <iron_angel> this is true. [23:07:29] <iron_angel> Have you tried to get a shell from the original CDs? [23:07:55] <pguser> how would i get shell from the cds? [23:08:14] <m0le> you could use the recovery console [23:08:24] <pguser> ok [23:08:40] <pguser> if i'm in recovery console what do I do then? [23:09:15] <iron_angel> find and mount your solaris partition, then chroot into it, and re-run GRUB. [23:09:32] <pguser> "/dev/hda1 2 10200 81923467+ bf Solaris [23:09:34] <pguser> "/dev/hda2 * 10201 16708 52275510 7 HPFS/NTFS [23:09:35] <pguser> "/dev/hda3 16709 19383 21486937+ 83 Linux [23:09:37] <pguser> "/dev/hda4 19384 19457 594405 82 Linux swap / Solaris [23:09:40] <iron_angel> but you'll probably want to merge that menu.lst with the one from Ubuntu by hand. [23:10:08] <pguser> I had to add the " part so I could past my partition list [23:10:11] *** sparc-kly__ has joined #opensolaris [23:10:42] <iron_angel> Ah, looks like /dev/hda1 is probably your real Solaris partition. [23:11:02] <pguser> yup, i made it the biggest partition [23:11:20] <pguser> so I could do a bunch of database stuff and play with dtrace and zfs [23:11:44] <pguser> I have a bunch of dtrace scripts and probes in postgresql that I didn't back up stupidly [23:12:09] <pguser> plus I installed a bunch of blastwave programs that will take me forever to reinstall [23:12:30] <iron_angel> Well, you probably won't have to reinstall. [23:12:37] <pguser> good [23:12:49] <iron_angel> not Solaris anyway. [23:12:54] <iron_angel> I'm not sure why Windows is confused. [23:12:57] <pguser> good [23:13:12] <m0le> It's windows, it gets confused with printers =) [23:13:22] <pguser> I think Ubuntu screwed something up [23:13:33] <m0le> The grub install of ubuntu probably did [23:13:53] <pguser> because I can see my windows partition right now in ubuntu. It mounted it read only ntfs [23:13:57] *** nostoi has joined #opensolaris [23:14:03] <pguser> it just won't boot it. [23:14:27] <pguser> I think ubuntu got confused because I already had windows booting through solaris's grub [23:15:38] <iron_angel> So, first, let's worry about getting the Solaris GRUB back. [23:15:44] <iron_angel> Then, get *that* to boot Linux. [23:15:45] <m0le> twincest: Thank you for mentioning about the Solaris not wanting to be Linux, that made me change the direction I was going to go with. =) [23:15:55] <iron_angel> Then, last, worry about Windows. [23:16:51] <pguser> so I take my solaris 10 11/06 cd. [23:16:58] <pguser> put it my my drive and then boot [23:17:01] *** Atomdrac1e has quit IRC [23:17:16] <pguser> and then I go into something called a "recovery console". [23:17:25] <iron_angel> This should give you a shell, aye. [23:17:28] <iron_angel> In theory. [23:17:37] <pguser> and mount /dev/hda1 as / [23:17:50] <pguser> and then what? [23:17:52] <iron_angel> no, mount it as /foo or something. [23:18:04] <pguser> read only? [23:18:07] <m0le> I love it "in theory" iron_angel, your definitely a UNIX user =) [23:18:20] <iron_angel> also, it'll be /dev/dsk/c?t?d?s0 [23:18:29] <iron_angel> pguser: no, probably read-write is fine. [23:18:54] <iron_angel> Then you want to chroot /foo. This will give you, essentially, a root shell on your Solaris installation. [23:18:57] <pguser> oh crap. How do I know what /c0d0s0 it is [23:19:00] <iron_angel> Then you'll wanna reinstall grub [23:19:11] <iron_angel> Well, how many possible controllers do ya have? [23:19:28] <iron_angel> probably it'll be /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s0 [23:19:31] <pguser> i have one disk in my system and one cdrom drive [23:19:38] <iron_angel> but if you have a SATA/SCSI/SAS controller, or the like, it might not be c0 [23:19:53] <pguser> actually a dvd cdrw drive [23:19:54] <iron_angel> try /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s0 [23:20:03] <pguser> plus my disk is not SATA it is ATA [23:20:30] <iron_angel> ok, then. And you don't have any SCSI/SAS/SATA controllers (even if there's nothing attached to them)? [23:20:58] <pguser> i don' t know [23:21:06] <pguser> i know i don't have scsi [23:21:14] <iron_angel> look at your motherboard. Are there SATA ports? [23:21:43] <pguser> i think from memory my disk was a c0d0s1 or something like that [23:21:56] <iron_angel> ok, sounds right. [23:22:12] <pguser> what does that mean? [23:22:13] <iron_angel> probably is, yah [23:22:28] <iron_angel> Also recall that that partition has slices within it, due to the disklabel [23:22:47] <pguser> like freebsd slices then? [23:22:51] * iron_angel racks her brain to remember how this works on x86 with ATA - hasn't done this in ages [23:22:56] <iron_angel> Yeah, just like that. [23:23:31] <m0le> This a laptop or a desktop pguser? [23:23:52] <pguser> it is a desktop [23:24:26] <m0le> kk, make and model? just trying to help with the guessing here [23:24:33] <pguser> i'm getting very sad that i may have to do a reinstall. This is sounding very complicated [23:24:42] <pguser> m0le: it is custom built by me. [23:25:05] <m0le> kk [23:25:25] <m0le> iron_angel: ATA you said? [23:25:29] <iron_angel> This is not as hard as it sounds. [23:25:34] <iron_angel> m0le: yeah. [23:25:51] <iron_angel> pguser: it's tricky the first time, but it's a lot less work than redoing everything from scratch. [23:27:40] *** sparc-kly_ has quit IRC [23:59:30] <m0le> Ok, now this is something interesting, I create user but it will not create said user. Anyone got any ideas? [23:59:57] <iron_angel> hmm?