[00:01:57] <CSFrost> 205w for a display isn't too bad right?
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[00:03:05] <pfn> 205W?  power suckage?
[00:03:07] <pfn> that's bad
[00:03:10] <pfn> crt?
[00:03:31] <CSFrost> lcd
[00:03:34] <CSFrost> 37"
[00:03:51] <CSFrost> my 22's are 150 each
[00:03:52] <pfn> I guess not bad for 37"
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[00:04:16] <CSFrost> that's what I was thinking..
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[00:04:34] <CSFrost> I just didn't want to look bad having power-hogging lcd's on my sunrays.
[00:04:48] <CSFrost> you know, I don't want the gore-effect.
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[00:10:39] <twincest> what could you possibly use a 37" LCD for on a sunray?
[00:11:08] <CSFrost> a cure for bad eyesight?
[00:11:45] <twincest> are you partially blind?
[00:12:04] <CSFrost> mostly
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[00:15:50] <coffman> CSFrost: your 22" lcds use 150w ? crts you mean or?
[00:17:04] <CSFrost> no, lcd's
[00:17:39] <CSFrost> the old ibm t221 is rated at 150w, I have a hunch it uses even more though.
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[00:20:53] <palowoda> 125W on a gateway 24inch lcd.
[00:21:31] <CSFrost> and I think Sun claims 90 or so on their 24
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[00:22:02] <palowoda> 5W standbay, not bad.
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[00:22:16] <palowoda> standby
[00:23:02] <palowoda> What does a 21inch CRT take to operate?
[00:23:53] <e^ipi> eyes
[00:24:00] <e^ipi> maybe fingers too
[00:24:06] <palowoda> the eyes have it.
[00:24:31] <moazamraja> 30" Apple = 150W
[00:24:43] <CSFrost> hp and sony look like 135 for both their 21" crt
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[00:25:22] <CSFrost> really 30" apple is 150W?
[00:26:23] <moazamraja> CSFrost: as per the specs
[00:26:30] <moazamraja> i dont have a power-meter, otherwise i'd test it
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[00:27:43] <CSFrost> interesting though
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[00:32:10] <Gman> hey hey
[00:32:13] <migi> hey hej
[00:33:08] <migi> Gman, I won't be able to go to your talk about Indiana thing in Dublin ;( but I hope some podcast will be available :)
[00:33:41] <Gman> ok, i'm sure tim will record it
[00:33:50] <migi> :)
[00:34:11] <stevel> 'afternoon glynn
[00:34:28] <richlowe> Gman: he better do a better job than you did of Bonnie's ;)
[00:34:36] <richlowe> Gman: given he was the first to blame you for the lack of quality there. :)
[00:34:39] <Gman> hey stevel
[00:34:46] <Gman> richlowe, yeah, that fucker
[00:34:50] <Gman> he's supposed to be on my side
[00:34:51] <Gman> ;)
[00:35:12] <Gman> i'd rather not have the indiana talk recorded
[00:35:21] <Gman> now i can jerk off and make wise crack remarks
[00:35:40] <Gman> [and the minor point of making sure i know what i'm talking about]
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[00:37:11] * stevel hands gman a kleenex, and a private room
[00:37:21] <Gman> heh
[00:42:13] <richlowe> You need to record it.
[00:42:18] <richlowe> that way we can yell when you screw up.
[00:43:04] <stevel> richlowe: you sure know how to make a guy feel confident ;)
[00:43:08] <coffman> CSFrost: we have 19" widescreens that suck 32w
[00:44:12] <coffman> we throw out 30 19"-22" eizos, they sucked 120-150w each
[00:44:21] <richlowe> stevel: the motivation is to not screw up, obviously.
[00:44:44] <CSFrost> coffman, know any good 37+ that suck 32w? :-)
[00:45:36] <coffman> CSFrost: nah, and since we have the real power back in europe i think it differs, 230v ftw!
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[00:50:08] <Gman> richlowe, eeek! :)
[00:53:35] <Gman> richlowe, trying to decide if i give a serious golden pitch style presentation, or go for something a little bit more whacky
[00:53:57] <Samy> Hi Gman
[00:54:10] <Gman> Samy, hey! how's things?
[00:54:41] <Samy> Ah. Not too good but trying to improve current situation. Interesting work otherwise outside of GSoC for the moment.
[00:54:45] <Samy> Yourself?
[00:55:30] <Gman> Samy, yeah, not bad - mostly procrastinating doing any real useful work
[00:55:37] <Gman> Samy, gsoc not going good?
[00:56:03] <Samy> It was going very well. Even did formal models of things.
[00:56:12] <Samy> But I ran into a pretty serious financial hiccup which I must correct.
[00:56:21] <Samy> Been working on that for the last 2 weeks or so.
[00:56:35] <Gman> Samy, ah, suckage :(
[00:56:45] <Gman> Samy, did you notify darren?
[00:56:48] <Samy> Once it's fixed, skipping past the complete platform analysis and jumping into the code for BPF to meet the dead-line.
[00:56:56] <Samy> Gman: Yup
[00:57:10] <Gman> cool, thanks - don't worry about it too much
[00:57:18] <Samy> I *really* want to do this work.
[00:57:22] <Gman> do what you need to do, and the gsoc can hang in the background :)
[00:57:33] <Samy> I was even threatened to lose my research position at school for this work :-P
[00:57:43] <Samy> Gman: This is my only choice for now.
[00:57:48] <Gman> ugh, suck
[00:57:55] <Gman> Samy, would it help having a letter from sun or anything?
[00:58:00] <Samy> But I'll definitely be trying to meet deadline and continue work ASAP.
[00:58:08] <Samy> Gman: No. I did it another way ;]
[00:58:15] <Gman> heh, ok
[00:58:18] <Samy> I did T2000 try and buy.
[00:58:25] <Gman> heh, ok
[00:58:29] <Samy> For some CMT work with smith waterman try and buy.
[00:58:52] <Samy> I think people think I got that through SoC :-p So, they're laid back now with regards to "outside" research.
[00:58:53] <Gman> Samy, if you get into hardware problems again, let me know - i may be able to help
[00:59:40] <Samy> Cool, thanks.
[00:59:57] <Samy> I was using our lab for FreeBSD/Linux performance analysis. BGE cards.
[01:00:04] <Samy> However, OpenSolaris failed to detect the card at the time.
[01:00:13] <Samy> So that's my next step really once I have time.
[01:00:20] <Samy> Probably just PCI ID issue.
[01:00:35] <CIA-26> rralphs: 6575805 st panic doing USCSI_RESET
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[01:01:18] <Samy> Back to work. Bye. :-)
[01:01:19] * Samy poofs
[01:01:20] <Gman> just ask around here, i'm sure someone can help :)
[01:01:21] <Gman> later dude
[01:01:33] * Gman enjoys pimping out #opensolaris resources
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[01:04:54] <richlowe> Gman: we all heard the poorly worded sales pitch in murdock's talk.
[01:05:02] <richlowe> Gman: how about you dedicate yours to fixing that? :)
[01:05:54] <Gman> heh
[01:06:21] <Gman> was this at the silicon valley ug? or one of the interviews?
[01:06:35] <richlowe> svosug. :)
[01:06:56] <richlowe> whichever one I sat on the call for, and yelled at you on IRC throughout. ;)
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[01:07:39] <twincest> is it worth paying to listen to the talks on skype?
[01:08:53] <Gman> richlowe, remind me the issues you had?
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[01:09:10] <Gman> twincest, it's relatively cheap to do
[01:09:17] <Gman> but where possible, i'll provide an mp3
[01:09:25] <twincest> ah, that sounds better :)
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[01:10:27] <SYS64738> what's the right way to install webmin on solaris ?
[01:10:47] <Gman> twincest, having a skype account is pretty useful though
[01:10:49] * Gman recommends
[01:10:53] <twincest> i do have one
[01:10:58] <twincest> but i'm poor so i don't want to waste credit :)
[01:11:29] <twincest> i find it a bit shitty though, i tried to call someone at sun on skype and the quality was not even close to usable
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[01:18:00] <richlowe> hey jmcp
[01:18:23] <twincest> jmcp: do you know anything about the iscsi initiator? :)
[01:18:34] <CSFrost> Toshiba sure does jipp Americans.
[01:18:48] <jmcp> gday gday
[01:18:51] <jmcp> twincest: nope, sorry
[01:20:10] * Tpenta had gman call him from skype to phone yesterday and it was damned good quality
[01:21:56] <twincest> yeah, it varies.  sometimes its fine
[01:22:19] * jmcp caffeinates
[01:23:52] <twincest> + it doesn't work with the conference system sun uses, can't type DTMF :)
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[01:46:26] <coffman> SYS64738: webmin? solaris 10 and sx ships with it
[01:46:59] <SYS64738> how can I start it ?
[01:47:02] <coffman> SYS64738: svcadm enable webmin
[01:47:28] <SYS64738> ups I lost the selfcontrol for a moment
[01:47:29] <SYS64738> thanks
[01:47:48] <coffman> selfcontrol? :P
[01:48:23] <SYS64738> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtUpvJa9FmY
[01:51:01] <coffman> urgs
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[01:51:41] <coffman> SYS64738: im a kid of the 90s...
[01:51:46] <lloy0076> One of the examples for the Eclipse RCP plugin environment _hijacks_ ALT+F. *sigh*
[01:52:00] <SYS64738> coffman, I am a kid of the 80s
[01:52:27] <pfn> what's alt-f
[01:52:34] <gdamore> hmm.... i'm thinking about enabling h/w checksum for hme... and also for vlans on eri.  (right now eri doesn't checksum when vlans are in use)
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[01:55:14] <SYS64738> coffman, where are you from ?
[01:56:03] <coffman> SYS64738: good old germany
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[01:58:24] <SYS64738> we are in the same parallel
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[01:59:25] <twincest> svccfg needs to use a pager
[01:59:30] 
[02:00:00] <SYS64738> more south
[02:00:05] <SYS64738> center of italy
[02:00:10] <SYS64738> near florence
[02:00:14] <coffman> ic
[02:00:57] <coffman> SYS64738: how is the weather? is warm? im freezing here
[02:01:28] <SYS64738> temp are low
[02:01:33] <SYS64738> is
[02:02:43] <coffman> at day its around 20c atm
[02:02:45] <coffman> sucky
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[02:03:39] <SYS64738> it's little bit cold when going with the bike in the forset
[02:03:40] <SYS64738> forest
[02:04:09] <SYS64738> it's almost like in Transformers.-.S1.HQ.-.13.-.Tra.I.Ghiacci.[Fire.in.the.Sky].avi
[02:04:38] <SYS64738> the temp in the world is lowered of 40C
[02:05:04] <SYS64738> cause megatron is getting the power of the planet earth
[02:05:19] <coffman> heh
[02:06:29] <SYS64738> and inside ice deceptions find the dinobots
[02:07:40] <freakazoid0223> oh yeah its starts off with a snowball fight in the desert
[02:08:18] <freakazoid0223> movie just came out over here and its doing well
[02:08:36] <SYS64738> freakazoid0223, where are you from ?
[02:08:50] <freakazoid0223> usa
[02:09:23] <freakazoid0223> near Philadelphia Pensilvania
[02:09:56] <freakazoid0223> cant spell my home state but...
[02:10:22] <SYS64738> the movie is cool but the combact scenes are a little bit confusionful
[02:11:07] <SYS64738> chaotic
[02:11:38] 
[02:12:24] <stevel> coffman: bad terminal font?
[02:12:33] <stevel> or rather
[02:12:35] <stevel> corrupted font
[02:13:05] <stevel> 6566332
[02:13:06] <sommerfeld> coffman: known gnome bug.  current report is that it will be fixed in build 69
[02:14:41] <coffman> stevel: some times it produces bad chars like that in front of "problems" but the i have font reder errors, wirred lines and such
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[02:15:15] <SYS64738> it's late
[02:15:18] <SYS64738> good night
[02:15:19] <SYS64738> ciao
[02:16:53] <richlowe> stevel: gnome-interest@?, tsk tsk.
[02:17:34] <coffman> its like in 6576309, mostly the first char in line
[02:18:50] <coffman> but it does not seem to be an video card issue
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[02:36:37] <Tempt> gdamore: How much improvement does hardware checksum make?
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[02:48:30] <SYS64738> goodmorning Tempt
[02:48:40] <SYS64738> I go to bed :)
[03:02:20] <Tempt> Mornin'.
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[03:06:56] <boyd> Mornin'
[03:07:04] <twincest> why is it called iscsi_initiator and not iscsi-initiator?
[03:07:15] <twincest> _ is hard to type :(
[03:07:42] <boyd> Why is the service name for the initiator nothing liek the name for the target
[03:07:47] <boyd> ?
[03:07:57] <twincest> what is the target called?
[03:08:38] <boyd> svc:/system/iscsitgt:default
[03:08:59] <twincest> heh
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[03:10:33] <twincest> and why does iscsiadm use --CHAP-secret instead of --chap-secret?  stupid shift keys
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[03:11:20] <boyd> Agreed... if you're gonnna use CHAP, you should use iSCSIadm
[03:13:34] <sommerfeld> boyd: i think it's a case of software structure emulating organization structure.  different people did target and initiator..
[03:14:56] <gdamore> Tempt: it might be significant for certain bits of code.
[03:15:15] <gdamore> but only on old hardware.
[03:15:39] <gdamore> like my 360MHz US-II system, that can't pass the nicdrv tests because it can't process 1byte UDP rx frames fast enough.
[03:15:46] <twincest> i also wonder why iscsi keeps logging "cannot connect" errors even though it's working fine
[03:16:16] <dlg> gdamore: udp isnt reliable though, thats a bit harsh of the tests :)
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[03:25:42] <twincest> for some reason, format thinks this 4.7TB disk is 9.5TB.  it used to be larger.. do i need to force relabel it somehow?
[03:26:04] <twincest> ah, "type"
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[03:34:43] <richlowe> gdamore: did you see the bit re: hme?
[03:37:12] <brendang> gdamore: why doesn't UDP have MDT or LSO yet?
[03:38:11] <brendang> gdamore: MDT would probably help with little packets; and LSO would probably help with big packets...
[03:40:17] <sommerfeld> the only definition of LSO i've seen is highly TCP-specific.
[03:42:28] <brendang> sommerfeld: from Solaris, sure, as the TCP code supports it. But if the card is just doing IP fragments, then I don't see why UDP LSO couldn't be done. Maybe there is little reason to (different expected traffic workloads).
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[04:00:22] <lloy0076> I like Eclipse but I'm beginning to think that Netbeans is actually better.
[04:00:27] <CIA-26> wendyp: 6529883 Forms not recognized by Solaris print system
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[04:03:53] <theRealballchalk> if i install firefox from blastwave, does it know to remove the one in /usr/bin/ ?
[04:04:04] <theRealballchalk> i mean the old one in /usr/bin/
[04:04:09] <richlowe> No.
[04:04:20] <richlowe> (and it shouldn't, either)
[04:06:17] <theRealballchalk> richlowe: what about the dependencies from the blastwave firefox? if those install then........i will have double instances of those as well?
[04:06:34] <richlowe> Yes.
[04:06:53] <richlowe> blastwave causes quite a bit of duplication that way
[04:09:33] <theRealballchalk> so is there a safer way to install updated softwares then?
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[04:11:39] <coffman> theRealballchalk: first thing, why the hell are you going to install firefox from blastwave?
[04:11:59] <theRealballchalk> is it bad?
[04:12:02] <coffman> next, blastwave builds its own userland and touches none outside
[04:13:01] <coffman> theRealballchalk: in sxce/de there is allready a firefox. and the builds in blastwave are mostly done on solaris 8 or 7 with gcc
[04:13:16] <theRealballchalk> oh
[04:13:17] <coffman> so on the performance side there are trade offs
[04:13:17] <twincest> i thought they preferred studio at blastwave
[04:13:24] <CSFrost> thanks guys, I can always rely on coming here for a good chuckle.
[04:13:48] <coffman> yeah, might be wrong about gcc
[04:13:56] <theRealballchalk> CSFrost: you're welcome
[04:14:33] <coffman> CSFrost: whats so funny?
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[04:17:24] <CSFrost> just removing things from /usr/bin or such, :-)
[04:17:36] <coffman> yeah, thats stupid
[04:18:02] <coffman> its all this "less packages, less holes" thing
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[04:18:39] <Gman> coffman, well, that's partly true :)
[04:18:56] <Gman> especially if you ship all that open source shit...
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[04:19:28] <coffman> yes and no
[04:19:55] <CSFrost> all that open-source garbage
[04:19:59] <coffman> Gman: i would be not that worse if there would be a easy way to update and manage packages *hint*
[04:20:13] <Gman> coffman, :)
[04:20:40] <dclarke> we use Studio 10 at Blastwave almost exclusively now
[04:20:49] <dclarke> maybe Studio 11 from time to time also
[04:20:58] <coffman> dclarke: ic, why not 12?
[04:20:59] <dclarke> possible Sun ONE Studio 8 in some cases
[04:21:03] <dclarke> 12 is new .. very new
[04:21:12] <dclarke> I have it installed on Opteron here
[04:21:25] <dclarke> it will not install on Solaris 8 in a supported fashion
[04:21:40] <dclarke> it will not install on my Solaris 10 Sparc box .. don't know why
[04:21:51] <dclarke> when it gets it first round of patches .. I'll look into it
[04:21:52] <coffman> Gman: but the biggest problems atm are the depends etc
[04:22:10] <dclarke> as for firefox .. you get a ton of dependencies .. we can not rely on the ones from Sun or anywhere else
[04:22:17] <dclarke> they are rarely updated from Sun
[04:22:30] <dclarke> look at ipfilter .. its way back in revs and features
[04:22:46] <dclarke> even in OpenSolaris snv_64a you will find cdrecord to be quite out of date
[04:22:57] <coffman> dclarke: hum, i had the beta on 1/06 sparc, worked without a problem
[04:23:01] <dclarke> so .. we do our own thing and .. receive complaints continuously
[04:23:13] <coffman> dclarke: i dont complain about
[04:23:22] <dclarke> coffman : did you extract the tar ball or actually install with the instalelr ?
[04:23:32] <coffman> dclarke: installer
[04:23:49] <dclarke> I only install software that I can keep up to date with supported patch methods and for whatever reason
[04:23:52] <boyd> dclarke: You're right... what's the point of shipping External apps with the OS if you're not going to keep them up to date
[04:23:59] <dclarke> the installer borked on Solaris 10 UltraSparc
[04:24:28] <boyd> dclarke: The ipfilter thing is particularly odd... where does Darren Reed work again?
[04:24:42] <dclarke> boyd : part of my dream with gazelle is to have a software service .. like Blastwave .. that is up to date and simply keeps the versions up to date all over the place
[04:24:57] <dclarke> its years away .. the perfect OS as you know .. but we have a hell of a good leap on it
[04:25:08] <dclarke> boyd : he works at Sun I think
[04:25:16] <boyd> "dream with gazelle". Sounds like Blade Runner
[04:25:25] <dclarke> boyd : I was exchangeing emails with him today and last night on that very matter ..
[04:25:31] <boyd> dclarke: I know, it was a rhetorical question
[04:25:43] <dclarke> oh .. sorry .. sarcasm carries badly on IRC
[04:25:57] * boyd should have used a smiley
[04:26:02] <dclarke> at the moment I am watching onsnv_68 build
[04:26:09] <dclarke> or whatever its called .. ON
[04:26:12] <dclarke> open networking
[04:26:32] <dclarke> really I just want the new RealTek drivers and am fully prepared to be unhappy
[04:26:33] <boyd> Enjoy. I'm off to get some lunch.
[04:26:36] <richlowe> OS, not open.
[04:26:40] <richlowe> and onnv_
[04:26:40] <dclarke> if this build ever finishes
[04:27:01] <coffman> for the desktop, i will dump sxce again, its to much of a trouble
[04:27:02] <dclarke>  2 0 0 2650884 670032 589 6523 14 0 0 0  0 46  0  0  0  443 5698  319 64 34  2
[04:27:03] <dclarke>  1 0 0 2645864 666268 276 3810 11 1 1 0  0 20  0  0  0  389 3583  231 80 20  0
[04:27:05] <dclarke>  1 0 0 2645256 666840 300 3621 17 0 0 0  0 13  0  0  0  374 3827  223 80 19  0
[04:27:13] <dclarke> vmstat has been pegged like that for hours
[04:27:34] <dclarke> nightly log is looking quite large
[04:27:37] <dclarke> 38739407 Jul  5 22:26 nightly.log
[04:27:59] <coffman> ill catch some sleep
[04:28:01] <coffman> gn8
[04:28:06] *** coffman is now known as coffman_zzz
[04:28:10] <dclarke> building OpenSolaris ON + Vermillion must be the largest open source collection in the world
[04:28:19] <dclarke> its .. staggering
[04:28:27] <dclarke> coffman : nightly
[04:28:32] <dclarke> coffman : hey !
[04:28:41] <dclarke> coffman : get a real browser !  SeaMonkey
[04:29:25] <jamesd> dclarke, at least you have some decent boxes....  the blade 150 on my desk gets unresponsive on some simple tasks... creating a ZFS filesystem,  zoneadm  -z zonename install  ...etc.
[04:30:11] <dclarke> jamesd : if I was up to speed on LDOMs then I'd hand you a .. LDOM
[04:30:38] <dclarke> in fact .. someone here a few nights ago wanted a zone .. I created it for the guy and even setup a host in a domain and all that .. he never logged in
[04:30:49] <dclarke> moonshine.opn4.org  sits idle
[04:30:52] <boyd> I don't bother with on builds any more... it's > 12 hours for me, even distributed.
[04:31:03] <dclarke> boyd : on what hardware ?
[04:31:09] <boyd> dclarke: That's edwardocalaghan's thing isn't it?
[04:31:14] <dclarke> yes
[04:31:22] <dclarke> I think he has ssh issues
[04:31:28] <boyd> 2xE250 (2x400MHz, 2GB)
[04:31:32] <dclarke> and I was too quick to just "do it" for him
[04:31:36] <boyd> :)
[04:31:45] <jamesd> dclarke, i have tons of computing power at home... its the lousy desktop that is the problem. I also have 140 solaris 8 servers,  at my desposal, but i really dont want to  break something that others are depending on...  the 140 servers,  and the smallest is probably a 2 proc,  1.5ghz  usparcV from fujitsu.
[04:31:52] <dclarke> boyd : dual 400 MHz with 4MB eCache each .. those are nice
[04:32:23] <dclarke> jamesd : big bad fujitsu power houses .. ah yes
[04:32:42] <dclarke> boyd : want to hear a tale of crazy horsepower here ?
[04:33:09] <dclarke> boyd : imagine a appliance .. with no fans .. no video .. no keyboard and no mouse
[04:33:20] <jamesd> dclarke, i got to spend a good part of the day, transfering my  ssh keys to all of them... got to enter my passwd to each one twice... lots of fun, should of looked up how to make expect do it for me :-)
[04:33:24] <dclarke> unsupported ethernet
[04:33:47] <dclarke> that's what I am building on today
[04:33:48] <boyd> ok....
[04:33:53] <CSFrost> what's the big differences between the blade 2500, and the ultra 45?
[04:34:08] <dclarke> the Blade 2500 rocks ?
[04:34:13] <jamesd> CSFrost, new case..... pic-e maybe?
[04:34:18] <jamesd> er pci-e
[04:34:23] <boyd> CSFrost: 2455
[04:34:27] <jamesd> and most likely cheaper ram
[04:34:44] <dclarke> that reminds me .. I have a whack of RAM sitting here
[04:34:50] <dclarke> like .. 16GB of it
[04:35:03] <CSFrost> I was thinking about it earlier.. and noticed, really same cpu's and everything..
[04:35:05] <dclarke> in 2GB DIMMs for V20z
[04:35:13] <dclarke> I have no idea what else it goes into
[04:35:34] <jamesd> blade 1500/2500 v210 ram is expensive,  3 rd party ram is going to cost me i think around $200 for 2GB... pc ram would be about $100 or so.
[04:36:04] <jamesd> and if it was sun certified ram it would cost me 4 times as much or more.
[04:36:13] <palowoda> Are you comparing non-ecc to ecc memory?
[04:36:18] <dclarke> damn .. I just got a grammer nazi email .. lovely .. from someone talking about my Solaris 10 installation guid .. sheesh ..
[04:36:44] <dclarke> palowoda : out of curiosity .. is ECC RAM really worth the bucks ?
[04:36:53] <CSFrost> guide*
[04:37:07] <palowoda> Home use I doubt it.
[04:37:12] <boyd> dclarke: It depends on the value of your data/uptime
[04:37:14] <dclarke> CSFrost :  yes .. that is what I intended
[04:37:33] <boyd> CSFrost is the spelling nazi :)
[04:37:41] <CSFrost> just wanted to add to the joke :-)
[04:37:42] <palowoda> I'm paying 89.00 for 2G of DDR2 6400(800mhz) stuff.
[04:37:43] <jamesd> palowoda my blade 1500, doesn't have  ECC ram i dont think...
[04:37:54] <jamesd> 2GB (2x1GB) Sun Fire V210/V240/V440 PC2100 DDR Memory Kit (p/n MX-X7404A) $259.98
[04:38:11] <boyd> "grammar", by the way :)
[04:38:37] <palowoda> Damn that is expensive for PC2100.
[04:38:50] <CSFrost> could bring in the punctuation nazi also.
[04:38:56] <dclarke> I just got told .. and I quote : Any two consecutive sentences (or clauses) ought to have a relationship if they are coherent. A period looks better, sounds better and is better. A semicolon is a queer little excrescence and has no function on its own. The semicolon is odious, superfluous, an elite period used by people who want to impress you.
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[04:39:05] * boyd remembers when RAM was AU$65/MB
[04:39:10] <jamesd> palowoda, and here is what memoryx wants for sun branded ram,  sun wants a lot more
[04:39:11] <jmcp> dclarke: who, poets?
[04:39:12] <jamesd> X7404A, 370-4940, KTS-V240/2G, 2GB (2x1GB) Sun Original/Sun Fire V210/V240/V440 PC2100 DDR Memory Kitpad	2GB (2x1GB) Sun Original/Sun Fire V210/V240/V440 PC2100 DDR Memory Kit (p/n X7404A) $399.98
[04:39:35] <jamesd> i remember $40 usd ram.. for 1MB simms
[04:39:37] <boyd> dclarke: Good grief
[04:39:53] <dclarke> would I be okay to reply "fuck you" ?
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[04:40:04] <postwait> I have an OpenBSD box with 100Mbit link connected to an ethernet segment with a few Solaris 10 machines and a Linux box
[04:40:04] <dclarke> with a smiley
[04:40:08] <boyd> Hehe.... Make sure you put a semicolon at the end
[04:40:10] <palowoda> And that is slow memory too.  I love this 800mhz stuff.
[04:40:15] <postwait> when I scp from the linux (100mbit) to the openbsd box... throughput is good
[04:40:18] <dclarke> ! ha !   ;
[04:40:31] <postwait> when I go from th any of the solaris 1000mbs to the openbsd box, it goes to crap
[04:40:32] <dclarke> damn .. I just had a pascal flashback
[04:40:35] <postwait> 16kb/s
[04:40:53] <richlowe> CSFrost: pci-e, sas/sata, possibly other stuff.
[04:40:56] <postwait> It seems like the TCP congestion control on the Solaris side just implodes
[04:41:18] <postwait> anyone have any ideas on a diagnosis approach or tuning options?
[04:41:38] <CSFrost> richlowe, thanks, I was just stumped why a used 2500 seems to cost more then a new u45 :-)
[04:42:06] <dclarke> CSFrost :  I was distracted .. is there justification in the costs ?
[04:42:15] <gdamore> brendang: the reason is that Sun/Solaris has historically been fixated on TCP.
[04:42:40] <brendang> gdamore: ahh. so no technical reason..
[04:42:43] <jamesd> postwait, find out if its cpu, network, disk  bottleneck,  use blowfish as encryption algorythm,  look at output of  ssh -vv   of both ways  see if something is configured to default differently
[04:42:50] <richlowe> I had thought u25/45 and friends were inteded to use serrano too.
[04:43:08] <postwait> It's network.  The snoop shows it.
[04:43:11] <postwait> And it's one way
[04:43:14] <gdamore> richlowe: yes, I saw your response.  the reason hme lacks h/w checksum support was that this was one of the "upgrade differentiators" for other nics... particularly the gigabit ethernet.
[04:43:17] <postwait> from gige to 100mbs
[04:43:24] <richlowe> gdamore: Oh, sod that.
[04:43:25] <postwait> the other direction is pretty solid.
[04:43:36] <richlowe> gdamore: there was me expecting sensible things, like "It doesn't work right"
[04:43:39] <jamesd> frankly  i would prefer a blade 1000, and a  u20m2   for about the same money... though a bit harder to get support for the blade1000.
[04:43:40] <brendang> gdamore: much of the MDT framework is already there - I wouldn't think it would be too hard to add a udp_lsosend_data
[04:43:52] <gdamore> no, i'm pretty sure it does work right.  *BSD has it enabled on this hardware. :-)
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[04:44:02] * dlg want a v445
[04:44:08] <gdamore> MDT needs to die.
[04:44:15] <gdamore> LSO, on the other hand, is interesting
[04:44:16] <brendang> gdamore: MDT is a hack, certainly
[04:44:31] * Gman wants a pony
[04:44:36] <brendang> gdamore: yes. now I'd love to see an LSO type feature on Infiniband cards.
[04:44:42] <gdamore> but nobody really sends giant UDP datagrams... 8K is about the realistic max.
[04:45:02] <brendang> gdamore: right - which brings us back to MDT.
[04:45:05] * dclarke writes down "send a 'my little pony' to Gman"
[04:45:08] <richlowe> that'd surprise me.
[04:45:14] <postwait> http://i-want-a-pony.com/
[04:45:17] <brendang> gdamore: or, killing streams altogether.
[04:45:31] <Gman> dclarke, :)
[04:45:34] <gdamore> killing streams altogether... that's part of what we're trying to do. :-)
[04:45:59] <palowoda> palowoda wants a Lamborghini
[04:46:33] * dclarke writes down "send a FIAT to Bob"
[04:46:39] <brendang> gdamore: that would be cool. some of the streams hackery is worrying, and has gone on for too long.
[04:46:43] <gdamore> GLDv3 potentially kills a lot of streams overhead, esp. for TCP/UDP
[04:47:05] <dclarke> palowoda :  trust me .. Ferrari is where it's at
[04:47:09] <palowoda> I use to work on them in a previous life.
[04:47:10] <gdamore> we have to support streams at some level for compatibility, but modern GLDv3 nics rarely call putnext().
[04:47:45] <dclarke> palowoda :  FIAT ? really ?  ever worked on a Sport coupe with the webers on it ?  the one with the Ferrari engine ?  That thing rocked
[04:48:09] <jamesd> FIAT = Fix It Again Tony.
[04:48:31] <gdamore> again, though, the largest practical UDP datagrams for ethernet are probably not much more than 8K.
[04:48:32] <CSFrost> palowoda, the routine valve adjustment on Ferrari's is just for pain lovers..
[04:48:58] <brendang> gdamore: which jumboframes cover, without needing LSO...
[04:49:08] <palowoda> No, Lams, Jensen Interceptors, Ferrarie's.  They brake down all the time.  Use to make a few bucks on those.
[04:49:40] <gdamore> right.
[04:49:42] <dclarke> geez .. I have not even heard of anyone mention the jensens in a ... a lifetime
[04:50:04] <dclarke> I used to do interesting work .. in a previosu life .. on Bosche Motronic ignition systems
[04:50:27] <dclarke> back when one could pull the chip and do a reprogram without a PhD
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[04:50:52] <dclarke> I must find those old pics and post them
[04:51:42] <CSFrost> electronics work on autos is an assembly line thing now.. you need to be trained to learn how to do something useless in 100 different areas..
[04:51:49] <dclarke> holy crap .. will this build ever end ...
[04:51:51] <brendang> gdamore: so, I can't remember if anyone has answered this, but do you know if network engnineering have a test suite to exercise all networking codepaths? (everything, eg, IPv4 over IPv6 tunnels, IPsec, SCTP, etc)?
[04:51:54] <CSFrost> it helps keeps the hundreds of thousands employeed.
[04:51:57] <gdamore> anyway, we need LSO on TCP for other nics badly right now.  and we need an IPv6 version of TCP LSO.
[04:52:18] <gdamore> there are lots of different test suites.  not every code path is tested though.
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[04:52:31] <gdamore> witness the breakage in mobile ip, which has never been properly tested .
[04:52:35] <brendang> gdamore: we need more LSO cards on LRT systems too :)
[04:53:00] <gdamore> LRT?  as in "lab reservation tool" ?
[04:53:03] <dclarke> CSFrost : I have lost alll faith in quality products from North American auto manufacturers .. I swear by Hyundai and KIA now
[04:53:04] <brendang> gdamore: yes
[04:53:05] <palowoda> But mobile IP is EOL'ed.
[04:53:18] <gdamore> it is EOL'd, but not (yet) removed.
[04:53:32] <gdamore> i think there are other code paths that are less frequently tested too.
[04:53:35] <palowoda> Kind of like CDE.
[04:53:39] <gdamore> heh.
[04:53:55] <gdamore> anyway, only xge supports LSO at the moment, IIUC.
[04:54:20] <gdamore> we need it for nxge.  so someone has to write a "soft-LSO" module for drivers that don't have hardware LSO.
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[04:54:30] * dclarke is running CDE right now .. I feel sooo retro
[04:54:30] <dclarke> heck I even have a VT220 here !
[04:54:38] <CSFrost> dclarke, I have very little faith in the car industry as a whole, even Hyundai and Kia have been getting more and more American investors.
[04:55:16] <dclarke> CSFrost : we need a quantum leap in cars .. if I had a few million .. I'd build a prototype
[04:55:23] <CSFrost> It's no longer a revolutionary industry, it's just yet another large source of taxable income for economies.
[04:55:27] <dclarke> CSFrost :  a car wit ha 25 year warrantee
[04:55:57] <CSFrost> dclarke, if I had a few million, I probably still wouldn't waste much into it..
[04:55:59] <dclarke> CSFrost :  95% recyclable materials .. high grade steels .. high grade stainless
[04:56:27] <dclarke> CSFrost :  the world needs people that value social structure and promote stability in the world
[04:56:27] <CSFrost> dclarke, because the way things are set up now, you'd need a few million just for political payoffs.
[04:56:44] <dclarke> I still have faith that "a good thing" can win
[04:56:55] <dclarke> even if Microsoft is damned near everywhere
[04:57:20] <CSFrost> Just the automobile industry at this point would be a lot more expensive to make a dent in, then the software industry.
[04:58:00] <dclarke> wellllll .. maybe
[04:58:13] <CSFrost> You can push software through borders without huge barriers, which is where the majority has to go through, before you start trying to smuggle cars across.
[04:58:16] <dclarke> the Mercedes SMART car is a damned cool invention for metro run-abouts
[04:58:27] <CSFrost> though inefficient.
[04:58:30] <dclarke> it gives me a bit of faith
[04:58:48] <dclarke> well .. I was thinking of a financial structure also .. that was revolutionary
[04:58:54] <dclarke> hear me out on this please
[04:59:01] <CSFrost> alright, go on :-)
[04:59:12] <dclarke> okay .. it goes like this .. I was shopping for a boat
[04:59:31] <dclarke> and any decent sized boat can not .. and generally is not .. bought all at once
[04:59:45] <dclarke> you need to slap down say $50K on it and then lease it over 30 years
[05:00:00] <dclarke> that way a $500K boat carries for $1200 a month or so
[05:00:20] <dclarke> also .. the resale residual is so damned high that you finance less than half
[05:00:29] <CIA-26> sbehera: 6551356 system panics with "PCI Expansion ROM is not accessible" during hotplug testing on Atlas cards.
[05:00:33] <dclarke> the rate is about the same as a mortgage
[05:00:50] <dclarke> so .. what if a car was built .. extremely efficient motor
[05:01:01] <dclarke> with a 25 year warrantee
[05:01:08] <dclarke> and a 25 year term for a lease
[05:01:20] <dclarke> the car costs about $200K or more
[05:01:29] <dclarke> but carries for about $200 a month
[05:01:56] <dclarke> the objective being to give people a "peoples car" that not only works but comes with a promist to work for a very long long time
[05:02:09] <dclarke> and .. the thing is damned good for the eenvironment ..
[05:02:12] <dclarke> it never rusts
[05:02:16] <CSFrost> though today, a lot of people feel they *need* change.. I know people who go through a car a year.
[05:02:28] <Reidms-420R> Some Mercedes are made in Alabama, USA
[05:02:32] <dclarke> with the exception of some fluids and basic wear-parts you don't have too much service
[05:02:41] <Reidms-420R> I will never buy Mercedes because of that.
[05:03:03] <dclarke> CSFrost :  yes .. there is no way to address the whims of fickle people .. fashionable people
[05:03:07] <dclarke> I say we shoot them
[05:03:20] <CSFrost> Well, you can build things the right way.. but it's in no way the capitalist way.
[05:03:41] <dclarke> true .. I really do feeel that Solaris is UNIX done right
[05:03:46] <CSFrost> People want to build the cheapest possible, for the most profit..
[05:03:50] <dclarke> and UNIX has survived for thirty years
[05:04:06] <dclarke> so .. does that mean that its the best way to go ?  the best operating system for servers ?
[05:04:15] <dclarke> is it good business ?
[05:04:18] <CSFrost> It's the same reason why cars today, get the same fuel economy as cars 30 years ago.
[05:04:26] <dclarke> or do people want windows in a clown suit
[05:04:36] <CSFrost> windows in a clown suit of course.
[05:04:37] <dclarke> CSFrost :  no way ..
[05:04:57] <dclarke> CSFrost :  my old 1976 Ford F100 truck ( which I still have ) sucks gas at a scary rate
[05:05:21] <CSFrost> so does a dodge viper, or a magnum rt
[05:05:57] <CSFrost> I could find a 70's pontiac that gets 20-25mpg easy enough
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[05:06:07] <Reidms-420R> CSFrost I have a Chevy from 1970- It gets about 5 MPG(454 cubic inch engine) and I have the same model of Chevy from 1984 which gets about 15 mpg
[05:06:43] <Reidms-420R> So it depends on which cars you claim have the same fuel economy
[05:07:12] <CSFrost> I can get you the mileage chart on a old caddy, I'd say 60's with atleast a 500cu, that gets 19mpg
[05:07:32] <CSFrost> not sure the exact year but it's atleast boat length :-P
[05:07:37] <dclarke> wow .. caddy engines from those days had a lot of grunt
[05:07:38] <Reidms-420R> lol
[05:08:00] <dclarke> caddy 502 wasn't it ?
[05:08:00] <CSFrost> my uncle, he still putts around with that kind of stuff..
[05:08:06] <Reidms-420R> a 454 can beat a 502- depends on driver and factory options(no aftermarket)
[05:08:17] <dclarke> geez .. he's killing the planet
[05:08:18] <CSFrost> picked it up for $200, cause it had no roof (someone chopped it)
[05:08:42] <CSFrost> it is larger then 502 I believe, lemme google it.. the old impala's had 502's I know
[05:09:00] <Reidms-420R> I dont think caddies ever got bigger
[05:09:12] <Reidms-420R> 500cu+ are extremely rare
[05:09:18] * dclarke renames the chan to car-geeks
[05:09:28] <Reidms-420R> lol
[05:09:46] <dclarke> FORD still makes a crate engine that is well over 500 CID
[05:10:03] <dclarke> not exactly a factory option
[05:10:08] <Reidms-420R> I would like to see that at a dealer ship
[05:10:25] <dclarke> hrmm .. must go look up Paxton superchargers .. see if they are still doing good things with FORD
[05:10:35] <Reidms-420R> or dealership (a dealer ship is a starwars type of ship that flys around selling cars)
[05:10:42] <CSFrost> looks like the caddy was 500 exactly
[05:10:43] <CSFrost> how about that
[05:10:54] <dclarke> gee .. I was sure it was 502
[05:10:58] <CSFrost> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_V8_engine
[05:11:03] <Reidms-420R> 502 is chevy dclarke
[05:11:03] <dclarke> must have that mixed up with something else
[05:11:12] <dclarke> oh well .. that is it then
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[05:11:23] <CSFrost> we used to pick up the used police packages..
[05:11:26] <Reidms-420R> 350, 396, 454, 502
[05:11:36] <CSFrost> had a few delta 88's with the 455s
[05:11:44] <CSFrost> (olds)
[05:11:49] <dclarke> FORD 360 390 and 460 .. I had one of each once
[05:12:07] <Reidms-420R> nice :)
[05:12:34] <jamesd> oh well off to bed for me...
[05:12:34] <Reidms-420R> Best car I have is a 1970 SS 454 El Camino :p
[05:13:06] <CSFrost> night james.
[05:13:10] <Reidms-420R> ......or is it a truck
[05:13:17] <Reidms-420R> seeya james
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[05:14:55] <CSFrost> I'd go old Elan.. I always loved them :-)
[05:15:29] <CSFrost> my family was partial to the triumphs.. but that little lotus never lost its spunk.
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[05:17:11] <CSFrost> it's a shame I am too blind to drive now :-P
[05:17:41] <palowoda> Nah it's just the other drivers that have to see you.
[05:17:50] <CSFrost> I know.. I know.. everyone thinks I just need a bigger vehicle to make it easier for them..
[05:18:15] <Reidms-420R> lol
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[05:22:37] <dclarke> NMI ...
[05:22:43] <dclarke> got pulled away here
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[05:24:33] <CSFrost> palowoda.. got a link for a semi with a car-catcher on the front?
[05:25:34] <palowoda> Not really, my days of racing and cars are over.  I'm just glad I'm not dead.
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[05:29:05] <CSFrost> oh no, I was simply looking for a suitable vehicle that might be big and scary enough for me to drive :-P
[05:30:32] <dclarke> Hummer H1
[05:30:39] <dclarke> that is your vehicle
[05:30:55] <dclarke> back on Solaris/OpenSolaris
[05:31:16] <palowoda> I drive little Suzuki's 4WD now.  With puddy little 4cyl engines that make up the fuel cost.  The idea all goes to hell when I have to fill my 36ft RV tanks up.  150 gallon tank.
[05:31:24] <dclarke> anyone here ever set reserved_procs = XXX in /etc/system ?
[05:36:55] <dclarke> well .. I just killed the conversation .. now didn't I
[05:37:05] <dclarke> worse than a fart in church
[05:37:40] <palowoda> When do you need to set it?
[05:38:00] <dclarke> to enforce reserves procs for uid 0 on a system
[05:38:21] <dclarke> it means that there is always resources avail to the root user if a box gets really really busy
[05:38:42] <dclarke> *               Specifies number of system process slots to be reserved
[05:38:44] <dclarke> *               in the process table for processes with a UID of root (0)
[05:38:52] <dclarke> *               Consider increasing to 10 + normal number of UID 0 (root)
[05:38:54] <dclarke> *               processes on system. This setting provides some cushion
[05:39:05] <dclarke> *               should it be necessary to obtain a root shell during a time
[05:39:06] <dclarke> *               when the system is otherwise unable to create user-level
[05:39:08] <dclarke> *               processes.
[05:39:09] <dclarke> set reserved_procs = 128
[05:39:43] <palowoda> So you have a system that is reaching this condition?
[05:39:45] <dclarke> so .. that's just something I do .. but am not certain its really ever needed
[05:40:07] <dclarke> I have done this to boxes and then subjected them to obscene work loads
[05:40:11] <dclarke> and they stay responsive
[05:40:21] <dclarke> other wise .. near lock up can occur
[05:40:45] <dclarke> in the case of a particular Oracle server .. over time it began to use all avail memory and then swapping actually started
[05:40:54] <dclarke> it could get really ties up in knots
[05:41:01] <dclarke> adding a whack of RAM seems to help
[05:41:14] <dclarke> sorting out really bad database index issues helped even more
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[05:45:05] <palowoda> Speaking of memory you mentioned the 2G DDR dimms.  Have you tried replacing any of your systems with these?
[05:45:20] <dclarke> nope ..
[05:45:27] <dclarke> they just sit around .. mostly
[05:45:39] <vortex`> i'm looking at installing Gentoo on a BrandZ lx zone - i can only find old docs on doing it; does anyone have a link handy to somethign newer?
[05:46:01] <dclarke> even worse .. I have memory kicking around for U80/420R boxes .. and those are real spoecific to that hardware
[05:47:25] <palowoda> I have a couple of these cheap amd 64 motherboards that only have two mem slots and was just looking for conformation that the 2G modules would work.
[05:48:23] <bda> http://blogs.sun.com/ahl/entry/dtrace_scobleized # Great picture (note second paragraph).
[05:48:37] <anilg> hey dclarke, all
[05:48:47] <anilg> Anyone know who this is http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/3356/dsc00123pf9.jpg ?
[05:50:01] <dclarke> Ken Thompson ?
[05:50:20] <anilg> Dennis ritchie?
[05:51:33] <anilg> I did find http://www.webreference.com/outlook/license/gallery.html
[05:51:43] <anilg> chk out the 8th entry
[05:52:08] <anilg> Are you allowed to have 2 cars with the same plate?
[05:52:43] <bda> Not in the same state.
[05:53:37] <anilg> so that makes 50 potential UNIX plate owners
[05:53:59] <dclarke> gotta run .. back in a while
[05:58:21] <twincest> what prstat shows "cpu3" for a multi-threaded process, what does that mean?  its most recent running thread was on that cpu?
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[06:25:05] <Reidms-420R> some windows user lost his way to ##unix lo
[06:29:11] <Reidms-420R> Can anyone point me to how I can get my CPU temperature?
[06:29:30] <Reidms-420R> prtdiag -v shows nothing about temp
[06:33:00] <jmcp> prtpicl -v perhaps?
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[06:33:42] <jmcp> nope :(
[06:33:44] <jmcp> dunno
[06:34:03] <dclarke> prtdiag
[06:34:16] <Auralis> not all machines report temp
[06:34:30] <Reidms-420R> Any way to get a third party app to do it?
[06:34:46] <twincest> why does prtconf on x86 just say "Sun Microsystems i86pc", instead of something more informative?  (like prtdiag shows)
[06:34:47] <dclarke> damn .. my build just blew up
[06:34:54] <dclarke> Jul  6 00:31:37 aequitas ufs: NOTICE: alloc: /export/gazelle: file system full
[06:34:59] <dclarke> damn .. double damn
[06:36:00] <jmcp> twincest: because most manufacturers don't bother to put useful identifying info in their acpi data
[06:36:16] <Auralis> if the hardware does not report you can't short of jury rigging your own sensors
[06:36:19] <twincest> jmcp: then how can prtdiag tell me "Dell Inc. PowerEdge 1950"?
[06:36:29] <Doc> ipmi
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[06:36:33] <jmcp> twincest: re-read what I just typed
[06:37:03] <jmcp> hi Doc
[06:37:12] <Doc> hello
[06:37:45] <Reidms-420R> This 420R returns Ultra 80- close enough for me
[06:38:06] <Doc> that's because they are exactly the same machine, just a different case
[06:38:51] <jmcp> one is a workstation case, the other is rackmount
[06:39:05] <jmcp> and yes, those damned machines are exactly the same except for the case
[06:39:24] <Reidms-420R> huge price difference on ebay
[06:39:36] <Reidms-420R> this same config on ebay was 200USD more
[06:39:42] <Reidms-420R> for the U80
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[06:43:34] <Reidms-420R> How would a USB to DB25 adapter fair on a 420R?
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[06:45:12] <jmcp> hopefully, the same as it does on an x86 system or any other box
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[06:50:50] <Doc> jmcp: bought a house yet?
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[06:52:11] <lloy0076> Log4J's debug logging is almost useless when you're trying to work out where it's looking for config files.
[06:52:27] <lloy0076> One would think that a *logging* project might produce useful logging :(
[06:52:58] * vortex` ducks from lloy0076
[06:53:29] <vortex`> still having fun with log4j eh :p
[06:53:36] <jmcp> Doc: we've got to the "possession before settlement" part - with any luck, assuming the other things fall into place, we should settle by the 20th
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[06:53:53] <jmcp> Doc: but we've moved in and the cat has arrived, so things are looking up
[06:53:53] <lloy0076> vortex`: It says: Using this class loader, and that class loader but it doesn't say: "I am looking in the directory XYZ for a config file called BLAH"
[06:54:24] <vortex`> lloy0076: its open source, you can fix it :)
[06:54:29] <Doc> booked in the for lobotomy yet?
[06:55:51] <jmcp> Doc: I'm not going for a manglement position
[06:56:47] <Doc> doesnt matter up there - all new residents are required to either have a lobotomy, or take up drinking XXXX (both of which have the same effect after the first week)
[06:57:24] <jmcp> Doc: I'm a returning resident, and I drank XXXX before I moved down to Sin city
[06:57:43] <Doc> ahh.. you'll fit in well then :)
[06:58:36] <jmcp> of course :-)
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[07:04:32] <boyd> Glad to hear you're settling in, jmcp
[07:05:19] <jmcp> boyd: thanks
[07:05:28] <jmcp> no dsl yet, so blog updates won't happen for a while
[07:05:38] <jmcp> let alone the fact that I haven't turned my workstation on yet :)
[07:05:48] <jmcp> still working out where to put everything
[07:06:55] <boyd> No broadband! My god! What kind of bizarre timewarp are you in?
[07:08:12] <jmcp> yeah!
[07:08:28] <jmcp> that's all because it took until late last week to get an agreement about vacant possession
[07:08:33] <jmcp> don't get me started :-|
[07:08:50] <jmcp> and since they didn't leave the white/yellow pages ....  it's actually be quite difficult
[07:09:05] <dlg> no wireless in the area?
[07:09:21] <jmcp> haven't turned things on yet
[07:09:27] <dlg> k
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[07:25:11] <bqscott> does anyone happen to know where I can download the Solaris 10 7/07 Beta ISO?
[07:25:47] <bqscott> Google isn't being too helpful today
[07:25:48] <jmcp> not released yet, as far as i'm aware
[07:25:49] <Reidms-420R> the web
[07:26:28] <bqscott> well if they have any intention of releasing 7/07 in July, I should hope the beta is already available by now
[07:26:38] <Reidms-420R> try asking #solaris bqscott
[07:28:41] <Reidms-420R> 68 is coming out on Friday the 13th correct?
[07:28:43] <boyd> Since it's been stated that it's going to be 8/07 I don't think that's quite the way to phrase it :)
[07:30:01] <bqscott> I keep seeing references to a "7/07 Beta" version as if it already exists
[07:30:01] <bqscott> oh well
[07:30:41] <bqscott> I'm testing Solaris on some production boxes, and it seems silly to use U3 when U4 will be out by the time I'm done testing
[07:34:36] <boyd> I'm sure the Beta version does exist.. the final release was originally planned to be 7/07 but it's slipped. I don' tthink the Betas are public.
[07:35:11] <bqscott> if it were public, I would have found it already :)
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[07:50:00] <boyd> Umm... is studio 12 supported for ON builds yet?
[07:51:44] <jmcp> no
[07:52:54] <boyd> That's what I thought. (replying to a mail)
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[08:10:50] <Doc> hint: if you're going to hide all your software away on a file server in a hidden directory and make ppl use a specific app to install it - then dont have the app tell you where it's getting the file from
[08:11:02] <boyd> lol
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[08:11:20] <jmcp> the fileserver is in a hidden directory?
[08:11:37] <dlg> computers in a fs
[08:11:39] <dlg> amazing
[08:11:54] <jmcp> what ever will they think of next?
[08:13:00] <Doc> ... fileserver, in a ...
[08:13:05] <Doc> and "bite me"
[08:13:17] * jmcp snorts
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[08:41:50] <theRealballchalk> hello
[08:42:04] <theRealballchalk> how do i delete a file beginning with a dash?
[08:42:43] <dlg> rm -- -file
[08:42:50] * dlg want a cookie now
[08:45:09] <theRealballchalk> dlg: haha gee thanks
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[09:06:18] * boyd too
[09:08:59] <Tempt> boyd: Hmm, beer?
[09:09:29] <boyd> I'm r**ted. Gonna stagger home
[09:09:42] <Tempt> boyd: Bah, beer would be best.
[09:09:53] <boyd> :)
[09:09:56] <boyd> Have a good one
[09:10:13] <Tempt> See ya 'round.
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[09:29:20] <estibi> hi
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[09:56:03] <timsf> Morning everyone
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[10:00:07] <seanmcg> Morning ! TGIF !
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[10:01:26] <quasi> morning
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[10:08:48] <asswipe> how do i upgrade a package in solaris ?
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[10:09:42] <sgnut> has someone installed latex under solaris?
[10:10:30] <seanmcg> yes, a while ago though.  tetex
[10:10:47] <seanmcg> there may well be blastwave packages too
[10:11:27] <sgnut> oh shit.. the name it's tetex, not latex in pkg-get lool
[10:12:34] <Tempt> hell yeah
[10:12:39] <Tempt> sun fire 4800 on ebay for $999
[10:12:42] <Tempt> That could be good.
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[10:12:59] <seanmcg> bit expensive for a fridge :)
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[10:13:21] <Tempt> aah, and stripped.
[10:13:23] <Tempt> No RAM.
[10:13:46] <Tempt> and in need of panelbeating (!)
[10:14:13] <palowoda> Ram is cheap.
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[10:14:22] <Tempt> Ram is *not* cheap for these machines
[10:14:37] <Tempt> Unless you have a different definition of cheap.
[10:14:46] <palowoda> So that is how they make money.
[10:14:52] <Fish> hello
[10:15:43] <Tempt> What would you call a fair price for RAM per gig?
[10:15:45] <palowoda> Patents on memory SIMMS who would have thought about that. :-)
[10:16:33] <palowoda> If you notice IBM, SUN and HP charge a premium on memory.
[10:16:44] <palowoda> Nothing new.
[10:16:52] <Tempt> Same vendor is selling an 880 I/O plane as a "valuable upgrade to your Sun server".
[10:17:04] <Tempt> Can I buy it and complain that I can't use it to upgrade my machine?
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[10:18:33] * Tempt hates the ebay vendor trend of buying up machines and parting them out
[10:19:04] <palowoda> It's been that way for man years Tempt.
[10:19:16] <palowoda> s/man/many
[10:19:22] <Tempt> I know.
[10:19:36] <Tempt> The funny thing is, this vendor has pages of parts for HP and Sun machines listed at huge prices
[10:19:48] <Tempt> Why are they paying the listing fees? Their feedback shows only ex-lease PC sales.
[10:19:48] <quasi> often it is cheaper to buy machines than parts
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[10:20:17] <palowoda> As volumes go down all kinds of games are played in the market.
[10:20:22] <Tempt> and one sucker that paid $AU4500 for a used V240
[10:20:33] <quasi> youch
[10:21:22] <Tempt> And someone else selling a collection of badges pried off the front of old Sun boxes.
[10:21:27] <Tempt> Ebay does make me laugh.
[10:22:08] <palowoda> Ebay is a Sun boneyard.
[10:22:11] <Tempt> Even I would be forced to mock someone wearing an Ultra-2 nameplate as a clothing badge, which seems to be what they're selling them for.
[10:24:32] <Tempt> Not to mention mocking people paying thousands for iPhones
[10:25:00] <palowoda> You get what you pay for.
[10:25:12] <Tempt> Well, perhaps not.
[10:25:27] <Tempt> I don't think paying $AU1500 for a phone will get you $AU1500 worth of phone.
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[10:26:42] <palowoda> I'd venture to say the majority of the population think Iphones aren't even worth the value.
[10:26:58] <Tempt> The thing is, you can't even use them in Australia
[10:27:06] <palowoda> Let's be pratical it a phone.
[10:27:11] <Tempt> You need to activate the stinking things with the US telco before you can use any of the features.
[10:27:30] <Tempt> The extremely funny bit is, you can use it as a *phone* without unlocking it with the US carrier, but none of the non-telephone features.
[10:28:07] <palowoda> Here I'll invite everybody on the list to watch a movie on my Iphone tonight.  We can have a party and you can admire the phone.
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[10:28:27] <Tempt> Can we mock you openly while drinking your beer?
[10:28:41] <palowoda> I like Port.
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[10:29:44] <palowoda> The cheap stuff around 500.00 a bottle.
[10:30:41] <Tempt> Port never clicked for me.
[10:30:49] <Tempt> More of a whisky and cognac man.
[10:31:10] <Tempt> (obviously not concurrently)
[10:31:23] <palowoda> Shesh I was in the Wine shop the other day and the guy next to me put down 1400.00 for a bottle of port.  That is insane.
[10:31:58] <Tempt> What does $1400 get you in the port scene?
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[10:34:18] <palowoda> I'd don't know, I'm a freeloader.  But it works out to about 40.00 a swallow.
[10:35:00] <palowoda> Great parties good food I guess.
[10:35:37] <Tempt> 40 a hit.
[10:35:39] <Tempt> Hmm
[10:35:40] <Tempt> Bit steep.
[10:35:57] <Tempt> Until a vendor is waving their expense account around.
[10:37:11] <quasi> maybe for a good single malt, but no way for port
[10:37:31] <quasi> it just can't be that good
[10:37:56] <palowoda> You can get good port for 20.00 a bootle but the 100 year old stuff really goes for a price.
[10:38:43] <quasi> but it is still port
[10:39:27] <palowoda> I think Port ages better than any other wine.
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[10:46:38] <palowoda> Hmm what was the deal with: http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do?bug_id=6566492  ??
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[10:54:49] <ofu> if my current directory is not a zfs mountpoint, zfs get all . doesnt work.... how can i fix this?
[10:56:12] <tsoome> just replace . with some zfs dir?
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[10:57:49] <ofu> hmmm, yes, but this is inconvenient
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[10:58:56] <tsoome> who told you the life should be easy?
[10:59:31] <tsoome> if . is not from zfs mountpoint, why you expect the command should succeed?
[10:59:56] <razrX> yes, exactly
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[11:08:10] <ofu> but df -h . works even if i am in a subdir of the mountpoint
[11:09:07] <Stric> are you asking about where '.' is a subdirectory in a zfs filesystem or a non-zfs filesystem?
[11:09:27] <ofu> df works in both cases
[11:10:04] <Tpenta> df is a question asked of teh filesystem, not of the directory tree, so you will always get a filesystem based answer in relation to the directory you request
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[11:10:54] <Stric> ofu: still, my question matters..
[11:11:06] <Stric> are you trying 'zfs get all .' outside or inside zfs?
[11:11:13] <richlowe> zfs get should work as zfs list does.
[11:11:14] <richlowe> file an RFE.
[11:11:49] <richlowe> them behaving differently in that regard doesn't seem like anything that could have sound reasoning behind it.
[11:13:39] <richlowe> (the change to make zfs list accept a pathname is fairly recent, though.)
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[11:16:45] <richlowe> (though list needs a full path, most specifically, to avoid conflicts between dataset names and path names)
[11:20:36] <richlowe> Tpenta: are you guys going to record Glynn's talk?
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[11:22:02] <timsf> Think he was going to richlowe - we'll be recording Thursday's one anyway and adding it to the podcast
[11:23:12] <Tpenta> gunna try
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[11:23:50] <Tpenta> we've apparantly got a nice mp3 recorder like simon pipps'. we also have a small mixer andf I will bring down a nice mike on a 20m cable for questions from the floor
[11:24:29] * Tpenta is always careful when mentioning simon's name 'cause half the time he is lurking and pops up when he does ;)
[11:24:48] * timsf is in awe of SOSUG's audio setup - we've got tin cans & bits of string
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[11:25:19] * Tpenta does some sound engineering on the odd weekends
[11:25:32] <Tpenta> I also used to be a professional muso ;)
[11:25:49] <timsf> Aah - that'd explain it.
[11:26:14] <richlowe> damnit.
[11:26:15] <Tpenta> but marketting bought the mp3 recorder, mixer and some very nice mikes for doing podcasts
[11:27:30] <aruiz> timsf, what was you doing so late at night in front of a computer? I had reply in less than 5 minutes :P
[11:27:45] <aruiz> s/was/were/
[11:27:54] <timsf> onnv putback.
[11:28:07] <richlowe> late at night?
[11:28:11] <richlowe> now there's bravery.
[11:28:29] <timsf> Nah, I putback at about 7pm, but hung around in case anything went tits up.
[11:28:38] <richlowe> ah, that's just sanity.
[11:28:45] <timsf> A mixer would be lovely...
[11:29:00] <timsf> s/sanity/abject terror/
[11:29:10] <richlowe> timsf: same thing. :)
[11:29:15] <timsf> :-D
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[11:33:13] <richlowe> timsf: if you want another one, see above re: zfs list v. zfs get and pathnames :0
[11:33:17] <richlowe> uh, ':)'
[11:33:59] <timsf> Thanks!
[11:34:35] <timsf> I notice the zfs list usage message needs love too (doesn't mention the pathname option)
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[11:58:41] <aruiz> what is the right place to install a daemon?
[11:58:52] <aruiz> /usr/bin ? /usr/sbin?
[12:00:00] <timsf> How long is a piece of string -
[12:00:27] <timsf> it's a difficult question, eg. in.telnetd sits in /usr/sbin
[12:00:28] <CIA-26> casper: 6574174 group ownership change for /devices/pseudo/openeeprom@0:openprom breaks prtdiag
[12:00:29] <CIA-26> jp161948: 6375348 Using pkcs11 as the SSLCryptoDevice with Apache/OpenSSL causes significant performance drop, 6573196 memory is leaked when OpenSSL is used with PKCS#11 engine
[12:00:36] <timsf> sshd is in /usr/lib/ssh/sshd
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[12:01:32] <timsf> dbus-daemon is in /usr/lib
[12:01:43] <richlowe> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/policies/install-locations/
[12:02:03] <boyd> The general idea seems to be that if it's not expected to be directly invoked (e.g. run by something else) then it should be in /usr/lib
[12:02:09] <richlowe> though given that references IA64, it may have been updated since whichever version that is.
[12:04:07] <richlowe> and I really dislike the panel applets that land in /usr/lib
[12:04:19] <richlowe> there must be some convention with a little less spray than that.
[12:07:01] <aruiz> timsf, and apocd in /usr/lib/apoc
[12:07:18] <aruiz> timsf, there is no policy at all about that?
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[12:09:33] <richlowe> I linked it about 10 lines ago :)
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[12:11:14] <aruiz> richlowe, ouch!
[12:11:31] <aruiz> richlowe, I'm used to the nick completion
[12:11:48] <aruiz> richlowe, tend to ignore what isn't in yellow, sorry for that
[12:13:25] <aruiz> it seems that /usr/lib/apoc is okay
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[12:17:00] <timsf> (thanks for the pointer to the arc policy doc richlowe - another thing added to my long reading list)
[12:17:21] <richlowe> timsf: it's mostly a giant table.
[12:17:41] <richlowe> but considerably more fun than watching a build you're pretty sure will fail, but not sure enough to just wander off and let it.
[12:18:07] <timsf> Hah, I hate those..
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[12:27:47] <Tempt> Bad Shell Script Line of the Week: "echo $CMD | grep $VALUE | /bin/sh"
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[12:47:29] <renihs> Tempt, obviously you put alot thought in it :p
[12:48:41] <PerterB> I have to admit, I'm kind of intrigued as to what the scripter was trying to achieve
[12:50:17] <richlowe> that looks like the kind of thing you don't really want to know.
[12:50:34] <PerterB> true
[12:51:07] <renihs> most likely massive lack of sleep and lots of distractions :p
[12:51:20] <renihs> no clue neither what the purpose could have been
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[14:17:33] <estibi> heh
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[14:55:45] <leal> There is some proble with sun update connection? I'm trying to register the system to use update manager, but i always get the error "User account not valid".
[14:56:05] <leal> with pca i can download the updates...
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[15:07:11] <renihs> i think sun is changing alot currently
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[15:24:43] <nachox> morning
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[15:40:22] <Doc> hmm..  just over 7 hours until 07/07/07 07:07:07
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[15:48:13] <quasi> apocalypse? ;)
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[15:50:25] <Doc> last years was better - 6:6:6 6/6/6
[15:50:42] <quasi> true
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[15:57:45] <leal> rinihs: do you have problems with update connection too?
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[16:41:01] <yongsun> guys, when I am building the onnv-gate code on my 32bits x86 machine, I got the following error message, ld: fatal: relocation error: R_AMD64_32: file ./debug64/unix.o: symbol <unknown>: value 0xfffffffffb8046f0 does not fit, do you know what's wrong with that?
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[16:48:44] <Abe_Froman> looks like a memory model thing.  probably trying to build a 64 bit library on a 32 bit machine
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[16:53:57] <yongsun> Abe_Froman, thanks, how could I control only build the 32 bits kernel?
[16:54:24] <yongsun> Abe_Froman, or, I cannot build opensolaris kernel on a 32bits machine?
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[16:55:38] <elektronkind> heh oh dear
[16:55:38] <elektronkind> http://shinola.org/pages//posts/free-hans-t-shirts175.php
[16:57:47] <Abe_Froman> no idea :)
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[17:07:48] <g4lt-U60> elektronkind, :)
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[17:33:02] <Tempt> ebay: 120138902238
[17:33:05] <Tempt> Got MIPS?
[17:35:31] <postwait> Tempt: did you see Transformers?
[17:35:58] <Tempt> Not yet.
[17:35:59] <postwait> ARE YOU ebay user Tempt? Where is ebay item 120138902238? Where is ebay item 12013890338?!
[17:36:00] <Tempt> Why?
[17:36:16] <postwait> Worth seeing.  Awesome fun.
[17:36:19] <Tempt> 1. I'm not ebay user "Tempt".
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[17:36:32] <postwait> Sure.. you'll get it when you see the movie ;-)
[17:36:37] <Tempt> ssj
[17:36:38] <Tempt> aah
[17:36:48] <Tempt> I'll wait until I can snaffle a DVD.
[17:36:56] <LeftWing> That eBay stuff made me laugh (I've seen the movie.)
[17:36:57] <Tempt> Hate going to the cinema; have projector at home
[17:37:44] <Tempt> for i in bad_seats no_smoking no_drinking noisy_patrons smells_bad ; do add_to_list_of_cinema_peeves $i ; done
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[17:38:12] * LeftWing is rather fond of i[1]
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[17:38:33] <Tempt> Aah, yes, but my quit_smoking start date isn't for over a week
[17:38:46] <LeftWing> (Perpetually? :)
[17:38:56] <Tempt> Nah
[17:39:07] <Tempt> Made the call; I'm going to finish my current cigarette stash first though.
[17:39:17] <Tempt> The no smoking in pubs thing has really killed the joy of a cigarette.
[17:40:29] * elektronkind blames being on an understaffed night shift at a former job for the cause of his smoking habit
[17:42:31] * Tempt blames the industry in general
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[17:45:51] <EchoBinary> Its fun to go out in the cold weather and watch smokers pass out becuse they dont know when they're done exhaling
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[18:11:07] <newpers> does opensolaris have something similar to red hat's global file system
[18:11:22] <nahamu> any experts in here on the boot system of zfs grub, and solaris?
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[18:12:04] <Tempt> newpers: For clustering?
[18:12:13] <newpers> Tempt: yeah
[18:12:22] <Tempt> newpers: SunCluster includes a global filesystem.
[18:12:31] <newpers> Tempt: thanks
[18:12:52] <newpers> i wonder how it compares
[18:12:57] <Tempt> Favourably.
[18:13:01] <newpers> heh :)
[18:13:10] <CSFrost> Instead of asking, it might be wiser to just try it and compare?
[18:13:16] <nahamu> make sure to ask in a redhat room too for a balanced opinion. ;)
[18:13:18] <newpers> that would take a lot of effort
[18:13:31] <CSFrost> no, it would take an effort
[18:14:01] <CSFrost> a lot of effort would be to recreate the eiffel tower out of mac and cheese - to scale.
[18:14:22] <Tempt> Sun Cluster is pretty easy to set up to play with
[18:14:23] <sfire||mouse> or the statue of liberty
[18:14:35] <Tempt> Unlike RedHat "cluster" you don't need IP power switches (!) for failure fencing
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[18:14:42] <newpers> CSFrost: that would require a lot of noodles
[18:14:49] <Tempt> CSFrost: Bought your hammock yet?
[18:15:39] <CSFrost> tempt, I ordered one of the mayan ones.. it holds 700#'s or some such (315 kg)
[18:16:00] <CSFrost> maybe I can do a comparison to elektronkind's sometime hehe
[18:16:04] <Tempt> CSFrost: I was looking at the Mayan ones too
[18:16:08] <Tempt> CSFrost: They look damn comfy.
[18:16:39] <CSFrost> tempt, yep.. I figured it would breath a bit better on those hotter days then a full cotton lounger
[18:16:43] <Tempt> newpers: If SC's global mounts aren't good enough, you can always use Sun's QFS
[18:16:49] * sfire||mouse wants to get a house and a hamock
[18:17:01] <Tempt> CSFrost: Looking at the hammocks made me wish I didn't live in an apartment
[18:17:10] <CSFrost> I decided to pass on the house, and just get the hammock, it was either one or the other...
[18:17:21] <sfire||mouse> heh
[18:17:52] <CSFrost> Tempt, well could always get a Hammock, and then move just to have a place for the hammock.
[18:18:13] <Tempt> I want it under trees though, not on a stand
[18:18:18] <Tempt> That makes selection even harder.
[18:18:39] <CSFrost> I'm just gonna end up claiming some palms out on the beach
[18:18:49] <timsf> nahamu, what do you need to know about zfs boot ?
[18:19:53] <Tempt> CSFrost: Argh! You bastard!
[18:20:03] <nahamu> I can't figure out how it works.
[18:20:07] <Tempt> CSFrost: Stop taunting me with your visions of heavenly relaxation
[18:20:17] <timsf> go on ?
[18:20:24] <nahamu> I have a Nexenta system that I wanted to add another boot option to and I can't figure out how it finds files.
[18:20:28] <CSFrost> Tempt, well I am sure there are other palms on the beach you can have.. no need to get ruffled up!
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[18:20:42] <timsf> Hmm, I've not tried nexenta
[18:20:54] <nahamu> I think the boot code is pretty normal solaris
[18:21:08] <timsf> but if it's the same as nevada, then there's a root pool, that contains the grub menu list file,
[18:21:09] <nahamu> I love your blog, by the way
[18:21:19] <Tempt> CSFrost: hammock + esky + wireless = why move?
[18:21:24] <timsf> thanks - keeps me off the streets
[18:21:48] <nahamu> I'm using the autosnapshot service too (on a Solaris 10 box)
[18:21:49] <timsf> Yep, there was a zfs plugin to grub that allows it to read (basic) zfs pools
[18:21:54] <CSFrost> Tempt, well, battery life is limited..
[18:21:55] <timsf> Nifty
[18:22:08] <nahamu> well, for some value of read
[18:22:13] <Tempt> CSFrost: Well, that esky would be heavy, so put it on wheels
[18:22:21] <Tempt> CSFrost: and drop a big 12V lead acid battery on top
[18:22:31] <nahamu> it doesn't seem to do autocompletion like it does for a linux filesystem
[18:22:40] <timsf> yeah - enough to get to the menu.lst file
[18:22:52] <nahamu> right, but what happens after that?
[18:22:53] <CSFrost> Tempt, probably some law or regulation breaking by that point.. lead acid battery on the beach :-P
[18:23:11] <Tempt> Seal lead acid.
[18:23:26] <nahamu> I wanted to take a kernel and miniroot that I had on a rescue CD and drop them onto the disk so that I wouldn't have to hunt for a CD later
[18:23:33] <nahamu> but I can't figure out how to boot them
[18:23:56] <vmlemon> Or you could get a motorhome/caravan, and pull the hammock out when you need it
[18:24:17] <timsf> Hmm. So they're on a zfs filesystem ?
[18:24:21] <nahamu> yeah
[18:24:29] <timsf> have you used the bootfs grub keyword ?
[18:24:31] <nahamu> but so is the normal kernel that the system uses
[18:24:36] <CSFrost> vmlemon, nope nope.. I am going to just be a big bum.. I already stopped shaving
[18:24:49] <nahamu> I don't want to boot off a different ZFS filesystem though
[18:24:50] <vmlemon> Aha, I see
[18:25:02] <CSFrost> vmlemon, hammock can hold 700lbs so I have some more weight I can put on as well
[18:25:20] <nahamu> I want to boot a tiny environment that near as I can tell is encapsulated in a kernel and ~35mb miniroot file
[18:25:57] <Tempt> CSFrost: Actually, you just need solar panels for the laptop.
[18:26:00] <timsf> Gotcha. I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that the kernel needs to be in the correct directory structure
[18:26:07] <CSFrost> tempt, also started writting up some paperwork and what not.. have to start hunting for board members, just been a bit lazy since I left work.
[18:26:10] <timsf> /platform/i86pc/kernel/
[18:26:16] <nahamu> that was a hunch I was developing.
[18:26:30] <timsf>  - I remmeber trying to put it in / and that didn't work at all.
[18:26:52] <timsf> 'course you could just snapshot & clone your existing environment, and drop your changes in there
[18:27:05] <timsf>  - no additional space taken,
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[18:27:17] <timsf> other than your changes...
[18:27:34] <vmlemon> Can Solaris share a swap partition with Linux?
[18:27:48] <CSFrost> nope, shouldn't be able to
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[18:28:27] <nahamu> timsf: any idea if the miniroot needs a particular name in a particular directory?
[18:28:57] <timsf> Nope, it can be anything I think - I've booted miniroots via tftp in all sorts of weird places.
[18:29:48] <Tempt> vmlemon: Yes.
[18:29:58] <Tempt> vmlemon: Solaris doesn't require any prep on a swap partition, so it should be fine.
[18:29:59] <tsoome1> vmlemon: if linux can safely find it;)
[18:30:13] <nahamu> timsf: one a pxe booted system or one that booted from disk?
[18:30:14] <vmlemon> Planning on setting up a Linux and Solaris dual-boot, with my home directory stored on my larger HDD formatted in UDF
[18:30:16] <nahamu> *on
[18:30:39] <CSFrost> tempt, though linux would have to dig through the ufs or zfs partition to find it, correct?
[18:30:48] <Tempt> Hmmm
[18:30:54] <timsf> Grub came up from disk, then read the miniroot via tftp.
[18:30:57] <Tempt> You could put it on a seperate PC style partition instead of a slice.
[18:31:16] <nahamu> I'd love to see the menu.lst entries that do that.
[18:31:32] <timsf> not complex:
[18:31:34] <timsf> root (nd)
[18:31:37] <nahamu> did it pull the kernel over tftp too?
[18:31:44] <timsf> tftpserver <ip addr>
[18:31:48] <timsf> kernel blah bla
[18:31:49] <vmlemon> I'm guessing that the MBR would contain a Linux partition, the Solaris "container" partition, and the Linux swap in a partition
[18:31:51] <timsf> module bla bla
[18:31:53] <CSFrost> Does Solaris require swap be mounted on a filesystem?
[18:31:58] <timsf> yep.
[18:32:05] <nahamu> that might be the best workaround for me.
[18:32:11] <vmlemon> I've used a swap file on Solaris, with no ill effect
[18:32:21] <nahamu> I still want to learn how to get this to work solely from disk though.
[18:32:26] <yongsun> guys, is there any introduction about how does the kernel boot?
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[18:33:00] <yongsun> the booting sequences, from the bootloader to init?
[18:34:02] <yongsun> e.g., who loads unix, and genunix?
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[18:36:16] <PerterB> http://www.princeton.edu/~unix/Solaris/troubleshoot/bootseq.html has a nice high level overview for sparc
[18:36:45] <PerterB> x86 is obviously different (and varies by patchlevel)
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[18:38:25] <CSFrost> PerterB, so polite you used the word "different" :-)
[18:38:36] <yongsun> PerterB, thank you very much, how about the recent nevada x86 builds?
[18:38:40] <PerterB> "special" seemed a bit cruel :)
[18:38:54] <pfn> x86 is trivial, grub -> kernel -> boot_archive -> mount root
[18:39:00] <WOP> hey does solaris containers and VMware compliment eachother or is there no reason to use VMware at all?
[18:39:03] <pfn> the magic is all inside that damn boot_archive
[18:39:17] <pfn> does solaris run vmware?
[18:39:25] <cmihai> No.
[18:39:26] <twincest> WOP: there is no point to use vmware if you only need solaris VMs
[18:39:28] <cmihai> qemu
[18:39:33] <twincest> WOP: vmware can run other OSs than solaris
[18:40:11] <WOP> solaris can only run other installations of solaris? i was underthe impression that solaris can install other ones..
[18:40:12] <WOP> guess not
[18:40:15] <WOP> :o
[18:40:22] <twincest> WOP: nevada some some support for linux zones
[18:40:32] <pfn> zones sounds like jail/chroot on steroids
[18:40:37] <twincest> pfn: yes
[18:40:38] <pfn> not full blown VMs
[18:40:55] <pfn> if you want VMs, you need something like vmware, qemu, etc.
[18:40:57] <twincest> but the effect is basically a vm.  each zone is a complete solaris install
[18:41:09] <PerterB> pfn: well, it only recently changed from grub -> multiboot -> kernel to grub -> kernel
[18:41:10] <twincest> (although in some cases packages are shared from the global)
[18:41:11] <yongsun> pfn, boot_archive just contains the required kernel modules?
[18:41:27] <pfn> yongsun, and configuration to specify the location of the root device
[18:41:41] <pfn> PerterB, so I've heard
[18:41:47] <pfn> the kernel now implements the multiboot header eh
[18:42:03] <pfn> speaking of multiboot, I've heard it's a specification, but defined by whom?
[18:42:15] <yongsun> pfn, what's the usage of /boot/platform/i86pc/kernel/unix in the grub menu list?
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[18:42:20] <pfn> grub docs didn't seem to mention
[18:42:23] <pfn> yongsun, it's the kernel  :p
[18:42:59] <twincest> "unix" contains the most platform specific parts of the kernel - the rest is in genunix
[18:44:49] <yongsun> pfn, may I say that the grub in solaris understands ufs, and it loads the "unix" kernel, as well as the boot_archive, then the startup scripts in boot_archive mount the root file system, and starts the init scripts?
[18:45:32] <pfn> yongsun, sounds about right
[18:45:39] <yongsun> twincest, pfn, is the genunix in boot_archive?
[18:46:10] <yongsun> pfn, then if we want the zfs boot, the grub needs to understand zfs?
[18:46:33] <pfn> yongsun, solaris grub is patched to support zfs
[18:47:07] <yongsun> pfn, I see, thank you very much! ;)
[18:51:03] <pfn> although, it's a stage 1.5, I don't know how it works
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[18:52:42] <nahamu> there's also a stage2 which as far as I can tell also supports ZFS
[18:52:50] <leal> Tempt: hello, i have solved the san boot.. :)
[18:52:51] <pfn> nahamu, I don't see it in /boot/grub
[18:53:24] <Tempt> leal: Good work!
[18:53:26] <Tempt> leal: Patches helped?
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[18:53:39] <leal> Tempt: was the drv/ata driver
[18:53:56] <nahamu> oh
[18:53:56] <nahamu> I'm on nexenta so I'm an oddball.
[18:53:57] <leal> Tempt: not really, now i'm working on it.
[18:53:57] <nahamu> sorry
[18:53:57] <leal> Tempt: but the pca is a great tool!!
[18:53:58] <Tempt> pca is fantastic.
[18:54:10] <Tempt> huh?
[18:54:11] <Tempt> ata driver?
[18:54:13] <Tempt> wtf?
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[18:55:18] <leal> Temp: yes, what i did not understand is the fact that i did not find the ata driver... the messages were about 'installing the drv/ata driver... and stays there (forever and a day)
[18:56:14] <leal> but there is no /kernel/ (i did a find)... and no ata driver on boot_archive...
[18:56:19] <Tempt> Why did you need an ATA driver?
[18:56:53] <leal> but i did edit the /etc/system file, and put a exclude line...and did work.
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[18:57:32] * sahafeez bored
[18:57:43] <leal> Tempt: no.. i think. The server has two sata discs...  i dont know if the cdrom is ata or not...
[18:58:24] <leal> Tempt: the drv/ata message was just after the cdrom detection.
[18:58:39] <nahamu> timsf: I think nexenta ships with a different (older?) version of grub than you're using.  mine barfs on "root (nd)"
[18:59:09] <Tempt> aah
[18:59:17] <Tempt> Good that you've got it working, anyway.
[18:59:24] <Tempt> Don't forget to file a bug as required.
[18:59:48] <nahamu> oh, he's gone
[18:59:56] <leal> i did some updates with pca, but know i'm trying to run update manager to see if there is some kind of gap between them.
[19:00:10] <Tempt> Shouldn't be.
[19:00:33] <CIA-26> ahrens: 6494569 zfs recv -d pool/<doesn't exist> core dumps for top-level filesystem backups, 6562532 typo in zfs recv output, 6566874 assertion failed: newval <= spa_max_replication(osi->os_spa), file: fs/zfs/dmu_objset.c, 129, 6575976 internal snapshot creation history event logs wrong dataset id, 6575979 ZFS_DEBUG_DPRINTF burns too much CPU, 6576508 'zfs create -o compression=gzip 'on old version pool will core dump
[19:00:42] *** dlewis is now known as delewis
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[19:01:20] <leal> but the registration process does not work... i get error message about "account invalid"... i did try many times... and with pca works.
[19:01:44] <leal> maybe sun changed the accounts policy in u3??
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[19:02:49] <asyd> do you use the last pca ?
[19:03:03] <Tempt> leal: just use pca; ignore Sun's patch tools.
[19:03:15] *** mazon is now known as Mazon
[19:03:50] <leal> Tempt: for sure?
[19:04:18] <Tempt> For sure.
[19:04:20] * Stric does
[19:04:32] <Tempt> Either just use Recommended clusters & SunAlert clusters
[19:04:35] <Tempt> or use pca.
[19:04:41] <PerterB> what he said
[19:05:22] <Tempt> If you're worried about problems, just ufsdump your root filesystem first OR split the BCVs
[19:05:43] <leal> Tempt: some patches were installed fine, but i'm getting (79) error messages: ERROR -1: Malformed status line.
[19:06:33] <leal> and ERROR 401: Unauthorized
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[19:07:08] <leal> The line that i use is: ./pca -ad missing --debug --wget=/usr/sfw/bin/wget
[19:07:22] <leal> and after that: ./pca -ai missing --debug --wget=/usr/sfw/bin/wget
[19:07:35] <leal> is that the line you use too?
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[19:08:38] <Tempt> I've never had any problems with pca, so I've never used any of the debug options. It also foudn my system wget without problems
[19:08:49] <Tempt> Just remember to get the threaded version and crank it up.
[19:09:17] * Stric uses 'pca -a -i -n -s', followed by 'pca -a -i' (after verifying that the things it wants to modify are ok)
[19:09:30] <Stric> threaded version of pca?
[19:09:46] <Tempt> Yes, there is a multithreaded version of pca
[19:09:52] <Tempt> Concurrent downloads
[19:09:57] <Tempt> Cuts the dl time right down.
[19:10:05] <Stric> ah, only dl time..
[19:10:31] <Tempt> It means while patches are applying it is downloading more, and it works around sunsolve's download latency that way.
[19:11:10] * Tempt has to patch bring his 880 down this weekend, so it'll be patch season.
[19:11:23] <Tempt> Upgrading RAM, might as well patch at the same time.
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[19:12:17] <leal> Stric: did you got some ERROR 401: Unauthorized??
[19:12:30] <leal> or Malformed status line?
[19:13:03] <Stric> no
[19:13:09] <Stric> you going through a proxy?
[19:13:55] <leal> yes
[19:14:10] <Tempt> proxy death
[19:14:13] <Stric> that might be it.. because Sun uses the same auth for their login
[19:14:19] <Tempt> do a --download elsewhere
[19:14:24] <Stric> so you're trying to login on your proxy with the Sun account
[19:14:26] <Tempt> move your patches onto the host when you're good to go.
[19:14:52] * Stric wants to cache downloads in a local squid like before, but no dice :(
[19:15:43] <leal> the problem i do not have a solaris box with access to internet... if i could use a linux box to download the patches...
[19:16:21] <Stric> innovative use of '--wget' option? :)
[19:17:55] <Tempt> Stric: Just use the -d option to pca
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[19:18:26] <Stric> I meant --wget=/some/script/that/sshs/over/to/a/linux/box/and/downloads
[19:18:35] <Tempt> patches due for install on this machine: 298
[19:18:52] <leal> Stric: :)
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[19:20:28] <Tempt> Number of patches that I don't care about: Lots!
[19:20:39] <leal> pca could generate a list of patches to download (on solaris), and run in another box (linux) to download it.
[19:21:17] <Tempt> It's just a perl script, so you could easily hack it.
[19:21:33] <Tempt> Just change it to print the wgets instead of running them
[19:21:45] <Tempt> add #!/bin/sh to the top and run it elsewhere.
[19:22:01] <Stric> is probably the easiest ;)
[19:22:19] <Tempt> The good thing about using pca instead of just dumping clusters on is you basically upgrade your install with pca
[19:22:28] <leal> Tempt: you are right. just being lazy... :)
[19:22:29] <Tempt> I'll be getting a lot of new features after this patch run
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[19:24:33] <Tempt> anyway, later all
[19:24:36] <Tempt> 3:24am = sleep
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[19:29:42] <axisys> if i boot a system from a cdrom and decide to comment out some fs mount I edit the vfstab and then reboot.. how do I modify the system to not to mount zfs fs while the system is running off of cdrom?
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[19:30:19] <axisys> in other words i know there is no entry in vfstab for zfs.. is there some other file?
[19:30:34] <axisys> i dont want to disable the whole zpool ..
[19:30:45] <pfn> axisys, /etc/zfs/zpool.cache
[19:30:49] <axisys> set mountpoint=none will work when booted from cdrom?
[19:31:03] <pfn> if you're booting from cdrom, it won't mount the zpool
[19:31:25] <pfn> since it won't find /etc/zfs/zpool.cache
[19:31:33] <axisys> but can I tell it to not mount zfs fs when I take the cdrom out and boot?
[19:31:56] <pfn> why would you want that?  you could mv /etc/zfs/zpool.cache to something else and move it back when you're done
[19:32:35] <axisys> pfn: lets say system wont boot because of one of the zfs fs acting up
[19:32:45] <axisys> but rest of the zfs fs are just fine
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[19:33:21] <pfn> is that a real situation?
[19:33:53] <axisys> well one guy is trying to boot his system and it is failing to boot normally and stuck in one of the zfs partition
[19:33:57] <axisys> or so he assumes
[19:34:06] <pfn> boot -v
[19:34:31] <dclarke> crap ==== Total build time ==== real    11:29:18
[19:34:39] <axisys> that will just give him verbose.. i see to verify where it is getting stuck
[19:34:50] <dclarke> The following command caused the error: dmake: Warning: Don't know how to make target `/export/gazelle/proto/root_i386/l
[19:34:51] <dclarke> ib/libc_i18n.a'
[19:34:58] <dclarke> wow .. that was a waste of time
[19:35:12] <twincest> dclarke: forgot to extract the closed bins?
[19:35:14] <pfn> damnit, my vm that boots off of cdrom won't boot now
[19:35:15] <pfn> pos
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[19:35:39] <dclarke> twincest :  ummm .. no .. got those here
[19:36:10] <dclarke> ls -lap closed/root_i386/
[19:36:33] <dclarke> this was a non-debug build
[19:36:41] <dclarke> maybe I'll try the old fashioned way
[19:37:31] <dclarke> crap ..
[19:37:40] <dclarke> this will take another 11 hours on this box
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[19:41:14] <theRealballchalk> hello
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[19:41:39] <theRealballchalk> is there a way to install solaris without the laptop turning off all the time due to heat?
[19:41:49] <theRealballchalk> it's a pentium 4 laptop btw
[19:42:04] <theRealballchalk> for some reason, the fan doesn't turn on and it overheats
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[19:44:18] <sahafeez> i would take it that the fan works under windows
[19:45:05] <theRealballchalk> well once the solaris install boots the fan stops suddenly
[19:45:24] <theRealballchalk> but it's working when the bios come up
[19:46:17] <sahafeez> hum. my sun blade does the same thing. maybe there a controller for the fan and solaris is not getting the heat reading that tells it to turn on..
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[19:48:55] <leal> Stric: i need a service plan to download some patches.... the pca software does not separate patches needing a service plan... update manager just shows what i can get.
[19:49:13] <theRealballchalk> sahafeez: i don't know, but i did remember reading around that solaris takes control of the fan over the bios.  so i set the bios to turn the fan on when the computer is connected to the power outlet - still no solution
[19:49:31] <sahafeez> post to the list
[19:50:06] <pfn> ugh, is there any way to modify the svc repo without using svccfg?
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[19:50:17] <pfn> I want to work on an alternate fs without munging up my svc repo
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[19:54:26] <pfn> hmm, I guess I can do svccfg -f script where script specifies another repo
[19:54:41] <theRealballchalk> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.solaris.x86/browse_thread/thread/fda31f4dd8254e6e
[19:55:03] <e^ipi> i wonder why the mac has suddenly decided to no longer be a functional NFS client
[19:55:15] <theRealballchalk> i guess solaris 10 doesn't support it but SXCE/DE does
[19:55:17] <Stric> that's what macs do
[19:55:22] <e^ipi> evidently
[19:55:31] <e^ipi> though it's been working fine for quite some time now
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[19:56:29] * Stric seem to have working NFS on his macs though
[19:56:46] <Stric> (for some values of)
[19:56:58] * nrubsig pulls the network cable from Stric's Mac to un-working it.
[19:57:29] <beholder> If I was going to setup a single authentication system for the solaris, freebsd, linux and OS X boxes what would you guys recommend?
[19:57:30] <nrubsig> stevel: Is meem around ?
[19:57:52] <nrubsig> beholder: There is only one choce: Kerberos5+LDAP
[19:58:06] <nrubsig> beholder: if you remove MacOSX you could use NIS+ instead.
[19:58:32] <beholder> nrubsig: Will that auth windows boxes as well?
[19:58:40] * nrubsig circles stevel while purring...
[19:58:41] <pfn> nrubsig, why krb5...
[19:58:44] <Stric> nrubsig: but NIS+ has been deprecated, right?
[19:58:51] <nrubsig> Stric: no
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[19:58:55] <pfn> I thought NIS in general was deprecated
[19:59:02] <Stric> NIS isn't at least
[19:59:07] <nrubsig> pfn: NIS=YP, NIS+=NIS+
[19:59:31] <nrubsig> beholder: AFAIK there a ways to get that stuff working but I never tried it...
[19:59:39] <Stric> and NIS+ has been deprecated as of Sol10.. "NIS+ might not be supported in a future release. "
[19:59:56] <Stric> It's still in 10, but might not be in 11
[20:00:00] <pfn> beholder, yes, you can make it authenticate windows as well
[20:00:03] <nrubsig> Stric: isn't that comment "in"there since Solaris 7 ?
[20:00:04] <Stric> whereas NIS is
[20:00:08] <pfn> but you need to disable signorseal on windows
[20:00:20] <beholder> So basically LDAP/Kerberos is the way to go for everything now
[20:00:31] <pfn> well, I still don't understand the desire to use kerberos
[20:00:46] <nrubsig> pfn: it's secure.
[20:00:49] <pfn> you don't really gain anything with it now...
[20:00:51] <beholder> Yeah what does Kerberos do?
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[20:01:00] <pfn> kerberos is a ticket agent
[20:01:12] <nrubsig> pfn: the while point is about _secure_ authnetification to services.
[20:01:16] <pfn> you give your password to a central krb5 server, it gives you a ticket (for a limited time) saying you are who you are
[20:01:17] <nrubsig> s/while/whole/
[20:01:50] * nrubsig still circles stevel while purring...
[20:01:51] <pfn> you can use that ticket to access network services (telnet, ftp, nfs, etc.) without having to re-enter your password, until said ticket expires
[20:02:10] <beholder> pfn: Ahh sorta like the ssh agents
[20:02:11] <pfn> nrubsig, the problem is having services that take advantage of the features that kerberos provides
[20:02:19] <pfn> beholder, yes, but ssh agents only apply to... ssh
[20:02:39] <nrubsig> pfn: Well, NFS and Unix login services work with Krb5.
[20:03:05] <pfn> nrubsig, I usually use ssh keys, so that nixes the latter part
[20:03:09] <Stric> pfn: It also avoids having an /etc/shadow on partly untrusted client machines
[20:03:11] <pfn> the only use is with nfs, and afs
[20:03:33] <pfn> stric that's avoided by any centralized authentication system
[20:03:51] <pfn> what I don't recall, is whether your password is exchanged directly with the tgt, or if it passes through the untrusted host
[20:04:05] <pfn> if your password goes through the untrusted host, you're even worse off than having an /etc/shadow
[20:04:44] <Stric> if you create your ticket while on a trusted machine, you can log in on the untrusted
[20:04:46] * pfn kicks belenix
[20:04:53] <pfn> stric yes, that's true
[20:05:06] <Stric> if you create it on the untrusted, then...
[20:05:20] <tsoome> pfn: thats only /real/ use in unix world. in fact there are many "kerberized" services
[20:05:25] <nrubsig> !seen meem
[20:05:28] <Drone> I've never seen meem talk in #opensolaris.
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[20:06:42] <beholder> Alright sounds like understanding LDAP is my first step, thanks guys :)
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[20:09:03] <pfn> tsoome, which is the /real/ use?  creating a ticket to log in to an untrusted system?
[20:09:09] <pfn> tsoome, or with nfs/afs?
[20:10:16] * Stric knows systems which has SSO w/ krb5 and uses it for mail, web, logins etc..
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[20:11:00] <pfn> stric "mail and web" logins, you mean your krb ticket is exchanged directly with said services?  or you have to login with a password?
[20:11:11] <Stric> pfn: ticket->webserver
[20:11:24] <Stric> for authing webapps
[20:12:38] <pfn> I guess if you can get a ticket sent to the server somehow, it'd work... I never got it working through windows/apache/heimdal
[20:12:43] <stevel> nrubsig: i am not your personal SWAN employee locator. if the person you're looking for isn't on IRC, email him or her.
[20:12:54] * nrubsig ducks
[20:13:06] * nrubsig hides from stevel's wrath... ;-(
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[20:18:12] <leal> the sol 10 u3 fresh install does not has the file /usr/dt/bin/dtprintinfo, so the service application-cde-printinfo is not starting...
[20:18:18] <leal> Tha is a bug?
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[20:50:11] <theRealballchalk> is there an unrar utility in solaris?
[20:52:14] <cmihai> theRealballchalk: install unrar.
[20:52:25] <theRealballchalk> cmihai: ok thanks
[20:52:27] <cmihai> theRealballchalk: compile, use pkgsrc, get from Blastwave or SFW or whatever, it's there somewhere.
[20:52:52] <theRealballchalk> yea ok i'm sure there is
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[21:02:33] <leal> cmihai: Dependency file://localhost/usr/lib/fm/fmd/fmd is absent (sol 10 u3 fresh install)
[21:03:00] <leal> cmihai: Solaris Fault Manager is offline.
[21:05:12] <cmihai> leal: what?
[21:06:26] <cmihai> svcs -xv -> issues with files missing?
[21:06:32] <cmihai> Is that Full + OEM install?
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[21:08:39] <leal> cmihai: yes
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[21:10:29] <leal> cmihai: ihave another problem with files missing: /usr/dt/bin/dtprintinfo is not there. The service cde-printinfo is in maintenance state.
[21:10:50] <cmihai> leal: find out where dtprintinfo is, and clear the maintenence flag.
[21:11:00] <cmihai> grep dtprintinfo /var/sadm/install/contents
[21:11:15] <cmihai> If it's not installed, make sure you've done a Full install + OEM.
[21:11:28] <cmihai> I'm at home now, I can't check on a u3 server.
[21:12:06] <leal> cmihai: should be there! the package is SUNWdtdst, and it is installed
[21:12:35] <leal> cmihai: i did a full + oem install. thats for sure.
[21:13:03] <leal> cmihai: maybe a 'bad' patch?
[21:14:59] <leal> pkgchk gives me error in all files... the package is marked as installed, but the files are not in the system.
[21:15:11] <leal> just problems with u3 :(
[21:15:36] <beholder> Ok another directory related question:  OpenLDAP or Apache Directory... which one would be best for an auth system?
[21:16:18] <cypromis> opends
[21:16:22] <cypromis> or sun directory server
[21:16:23] <cypromis> :)
[21:16:41] <beholder> cypromis: Hmm, never heard of those ones.  I'll check em out.
[21:20:57] <beholder> cypromis: OpenDS sounds kinda beta like.
[21:21:35] <cypromis> compared to openldap I find it rather production quality
[21:21:35] <cypromis> lol
[21:21:38] <cypromis> but YMMV ;)
[21:23:13] <beholder> yeah I've heard bad things about openldap
[21:28:00] <axisys> whenever I try to upgrade my passwd on this sol 8 box I get seg fault.. here is last 200 lines of truss out http://rafb.net/p/8Py91E18.html
[21:28:29] <delewis> OpenLDAP? production quality? I see sarcasm is prominent here today.
[21:28:30] <axisys> anyone suggest what the problem is? i am trying both `passwd -r files iqbala' and `passwd iqbala'
[21:28:44] <axisys> nsswitch.conf shows passwd to files only
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[21:36:59] <pfn> what's opends?
[21:37:02] <pfn> openldap is production quality
[21:37:18] <pfn> and there's an apache directory?
[21:37:23] <pfn> AD = active directory....
[21:37:35] <pfn> although, I do dislike that openldap uses bdb... it works...
[21:38:00] <EchoBinary> opendns rocks
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[21:51:40] <r00tintheb0x> I can't find any reference on "code 35" when patching. Anyone know off the tops of their heads what it means?
[21:55:01] <axisys> anyone see anything obvious problem w/ this truss output? http://rafb.net/p/8Py91E18.html .. i am trying to change passwd
[21:55:15] <axisys> gettinh segmentation fault
[21:55:28] <pfn> opendns?
[21:57:48] <pfn> axisys, get the core file, load it up, and backtrace
[21:59:09] <EchoBinary> i need to print 4000 $1 checks..
[21:59:12] * EchoBinary ponders
[21:59:17] <EchoBinary> (child support payout)
[22:00:11] <pfn> you have 4000 ex-wives ?  ;-)
[22:00:12] <pfn> scary
[22:00:19] <e^ipi> yeah, my dad was a deadbeat that fought tooth and nail not to pay child support too
[22:00:41] <EchoBinary> i pay my child support
[22:00:52] <asyd> :s &"
[22:00:53] <asyd> oups
[22:01:29] <EchoBinary> e^ipi: im hardly a deadbeat. you dont even know me, or her, or the circumstances
[22:01:38] <EchoBinary> i do however think its a clever idea
[22:01:41] <pfn> why 4000 $1 checks, though?
[22:01:50] <EchoBinary> because shed have to sign them all
[22:01:54] <e^ipi> w/e
[22:02:05] <pfn> EchoBinary, she could just get a stamp and stamp them
[22:02:16] <EchoBinary> she wouldnt think of that
[22:02:19] <EchoBinary> thats the beauty of it
[22:02:26] <EchoBinary> and if she does - more power to her
[22:05:15] <pfn> EchoBinary, get a check printer  :p
[22:05:38] <EchoBinary> aye
[22:06:03] <EchoBinary> i just looked up the cost of magnetic ink, its $200 for a cartridge that will print 6000 pages
[22:06:11] <EchoBinary> im pondering if its worth it
[22:06:40] <pfn> 6000 pages is a lot more than just 4000 cheks
[22:06:57] <pfn> assuming they mean 6000 pages of "regular" text
[22:07:16] <pfn> since the mag printing is only done for like 4 lines...
[22:07:24] <axisys> pfn: no core on the current dir
[22:07:31] <pfn> axisys, get it to dump a core  :p
[22:07:34] <pfn> ulimit -c unlimited
[22:08:06] <axisys> any chance that may crash my rpod system?
[22:08:13] <axisys> s/rpod/prod/
[22:08:14] <pfn> rpod?
[22:08:20] <pfn> why would it
[22:08:24] <pfn> no, it won't
[22:08:34] <pfn> wow, I never knew apache was creating a directory server... sheesh
[22:09:02] <e^ipi> it's always the guy punishing "bitch ex-wife", but it's the kids that end up suffering
[22:09:05] <axisys> pfn: still no core
[22:09:06] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[22:09:45] <pfn> how about changing $4000 in child support to $4000 in alimony
[22:09:48] <pfn> it's a bit better for you...
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[22:11:43] <pfn> axisys, then run it as root
[22:12:00] <pfn> maybe there are some funky rules about suid binaries...
[22:12:02] * pfn shrugs
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[22:19:16] <wraith> hi all.I have a question: when I download bfu archives, which should I download ,debug or non-debug?
[22:20:48] <e^ipi> depends why you're grabbing ON bfu archives
[22:21:24] <wraith> well I just want to update ystem
[22:21:31] <wraith> *system
[22:21:38] <e^ipi> you might be better off using liveupgrade or just upgrade then
[22:22:06] <e^ipi> the bfu archives are only ON, and using them means you can never upgrade ever again except through bfu
[22:22:18] <wraith> liveupgrade?is it possible on opensolaris?
[22:22:24] <e^ipi> of course it is
[22:22:47] <EchoBinary> e^ipi: its not _always_ anyone doing any one thing to anyone else. in fact more women who have to pay child support are deadbeat parents than men.
[22:22:58] <EchoBinary> e^ipi: you are ill informed and bitter
[22:23:17] <e^ipi> sure, whatever, they're your kids
[22:23:21] <e^ipi> treat them however you like
[22:23:30] <EchoBinary> i treat them just fine
[22:24:33] <EchoBinary> my kids dont see a cent of that money
[22:25:13] <EchoBinary> and itc certaintly not because im not paying my $1400/mo child support (on top of this $4k payout)
[22:25:16] <pfn> EchoBinary, women generally aren't the bread winners...
[22:25:40] <EchoBinary> pfn: i was a stay at home dad for the last two years of the marriage
[22:25:49] <EchoBinary> pfn: she is capable, and unwilling
[22:26:08] <EchoBinary> as i said before, i thought it was a clever idea, and no one in here knows the circumstances
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[22:27:01] <EchoBinary> in fact, she is purposly taking lower paying part time jobs
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[22:27:36] <EchoBinary> she stalled the separation and had a child by another guy before we were even divorced
[22:27:50] <pfn> EchoBinary, damn, that's just wrong
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[22:28:07] <pfn> and you can't take custody of your kids?
[22:28:12] <EchoBinary> no i cannot
[22:28:23] <EchoBinary> im getting ready to fight that, actually
[22:28:36] <oninoshiko> courts almost always grant custody to the woman
[22:28:43] <EchoBinary> indeed they do/have
[22:29:49] <e^ipi> actually when the man fights for it, the courts often side with the father
[22:29:59] <e^ipi> the woman usually gets it because the father doesn't care
[22:30:12] * EchoBinary fought and lost
[22:30:22] *** mazon is now known as Mazon
[22:30:26] <EchoBinary> reason: i moved to DC after we separated, the girls are established in Baltimore
[22:30:35] <oninoshiko> ive seen a number of fathers who fight and loose
[22:30:49] <gdamore> e^ipi: not true.  I've fought hard for custody of my son, and I lost.
[22:31:15] <Stric> "often" != "always"
[22:31:18] <gdamore> unless i could demonstrate his mother was unfit somehow, i couldn't get it.
[22:31:46] <fortytwo_> hi, just one quick question: Is there any way to enable some verbose mode or similar when installing the latest sxce?
[22:31:48] <e^ipi> yes, obviously i don't mean in all cases
[22:31:49] <gdamore> i think fathers get custody "frequently" only when the mother doesn't care or is unfit.
[22:31:50] <pfn> heh, my mom was completely unfit (schizo) and the court awarded me to her...
[22:32:08] <pfn> until social workers came and took me away from her...
[22:32:13] <oninoshiko> gdamore : that seems to be the standard. unless the woman is unfit/unwilling the court default custody
[22:32:25] <gdamore> right.  particularly for younger children.
[22:32:43] <fortytwo_> grub bootloader shows up fine, and then it loads for a while. Then it freezes with the SunOS copyright text
[22:32:51] <oninoshiko> ofcourse sometimes you have to wonder what it takes to be "unfit"
[22:32:53] <gdamore> when the parents live close together, the court may award joint custody.  that seems to be popular.
[22:32:58] <pfn> fortytwo_, add -v to boot parameter
[22:33:15] <fortytwo_> pfn: thanks
[22:33:28] <EchoBinary> oninoshiko: i went to the cooperative co-parenting workshops. they still allow visitation to crack addicted parents as long as the parent is in a program
[22:33:31] <gdamore> but i live too far from my ex-wife for my son to still be in the same school district, so i got joint legal, but only visitation rights for physical custody
[22:33:49] <oninoshiko> visitation is not the same as custody
[22:34:24] <gdamore> on another topic, is anyone else bothered by the assumption that 200k == zero cost that some folks seem to have?
[22:34:33] <oninoshiko> gdamore : i think that is popular for amicable devorcies
[22:34:34] <pfn> ?
[22:34:39] <pfn> 200k == zero cost?  huh?
[22:34:41] <EchoBinary> yes, but the custody is near the same, as long as the parent isnt endangering the child physically and is seeking recovery - there is little they will do. i asked. mental damage is hard to prove in that sense
[22:34:47] <gdamore> 200kB.
[22:34:58] <pfn> zero cost for what?
[22:35:17] <gdamore> i was complaining about /usr/gnu/bin/true and a few other utilities like that, which offer  *nothing* (except for --version and --help) over the Solaris counterparts
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[22:35:33] <pfn> /usr/sfw/bin/true is 200kb???
[22:35:34] <pfn> wtf
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[22:35:42] <oninoshiko> lol
[22:36:00] <Stric> how'd you manage that? gnu true on linux is like 10k
[22:36:00] <gdamore> no, but there was a collection of other utilities which added up that way.  (similiar to /bin/true in that no difference against solaris)
[22:36:11] <oninoshiko> well they have to have both a return() AND a exit()
[22:36:25] <pfn> [pfnguyen@ares ~]$ ls -l /bin/true
[22:36:52] <gdamore> on my system, /bin/true is 7K, but /usr/gnu/bin/true is 15K.
[22:37:09] <gdamore> this shows up for /usr/bin/yes, /usr/bin/logname, /usr/bin/pwd, etc.
[22:37:19] <pfn> anyway, 200kb of disk space is pretty un-noteworthy
[22:37:20] <gdamore> the gnu versions are all quite a bit bigger (usually 2-3x)
[22:37:26] <pfn> if you were still using floppies
[22:37:30] <pfn> it'd be a concern
[22:37:34] <pfn> gnu bloat
[22:37:40] <gdamore> right. gnu bloat.
[22:37:47] <pfn> I mean, you know gnu's bloated when helloworld = 200kb
[22:38:01] <gdamore> by itself 200k is not terrible.  but add it up to all the other bloat in the system.  this was low hanging fruit.
[22:39:12] <SYS64738> isnt the findutils installed by default in full install ?
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[22:39:22] <pfn> I had to move /usr/jdk and /usr/sfw to /export/home... / ran out of space  :(
[22:39:23] <gdamore> i just thought the addition of these utilities to the default install, when they add *zero* benefit to what is in /usr/bin, was pretty cavalier....
[22:39:34] <pfn> gdamore, it's not in the core install  :p
[22:39:44] <gdamore> yeah, but core install is not useful.
[22:39:46] <Stric> gdamore: isn't it because entire gnu coreutils was added?
[22:39:52] <pfn> gdamore, it's useful to me  :p
[22:39:55] <gdamore> Stric: yes.
[22:40:07] <pfn> I've got ssh, nfs, samba, java and zfs
[22:40:10] <pfn> what more do I need?
[22:40:18] <gdamore> i need /usr/ccs/make for one.
[22:40:19] <oninoshiko> a beer?
[22:40:28] * oninoshiko needs a beer.
[22:40:31] <pfn> gdamore, oh, and I installed the gnu toolchain...
[22:40:40] <pfn> so install core + ccs
[22:40:45] <palowoda> gdamore:  What would you like to happen.  Remove them altoghter?
[22:41:04] <gdamore> not all of coreutils, but why not prune out the stuff that is identical to what we offer already.
[22:41:18] <gdamore> coreutils is mostly intended for systems *without* core utilities. :-)
[22:41:31] <palowoda> Won't happen, makes too much work.  No rules apply.
[22:41:38] <oninoshiko> well i do have to agree with gdamore that there does not need to be a "gnuified" version of true and false
[22:41:44] <Stric> maybe to have a consistent system.. that --help/--version works on everything..
[22:41:53] <pfn> hmm, can I do lofi over nfs?
[22:42:03] <gdamore> okay, i give up.  nobody else cares about bloat.  only me. :-(
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[22:42:23] <twincest> gdamore: i think it's idiotic but not worth arguing about
[22:42:40] <palowoda> It's not the bloat.  It's that thier is no process to deal with the bloat that works.
[22:42:42] <pfn> wtf, now it worked...
[22:42:56] <gdamore> individually its idiotic.  but consider it a straw on the camels back.
[22:42:59] <Stric> gdamore: I care about bloat, but not removing like 40k.. that's not worth it on a multi-gigabyte install
[22:42:59] <oninoshiko> how meany version of "true" can their be? i mean you cant screw it up! its easier then "hello world!" and how much help can you get?
[22:43:10] <gdamore> if we could remove 200k from a lot of different places, the systems would be a lot less bloated.
[22:43:27] <Stric> oninoshiko: and on that subject; /bin/false from solaris 9: #ident  " at (#)false dot sh   1.6     93/01/11 SMI"   /* SVr4.0 1.3   */
[22:43:36] <palowoda> Submit a bloat RFE and see what happens.
[22:43:37] <Stric> oninoshiko: how can you have v1.6 of "exit 255" ?
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[22:43:47] <gdamore> palowoda: it will get ignored.
[22:43:56] <palowoda> exactly.
[22:44:01] <pfn> why not just nuke all of gnu coreutils?
[22:44:03] <gdamore> because somehow being GNUified is more important to people than having systems that are efficient.
[22:44:20] <gdamore> apparently some of the utils have different command line switches.
[22:44:21] <Stric> I'd rather have me being efficient than saving 40k
[22:44:25] <twincest> gdamore: to clarify, i mean that shipping /usr/gnu/bin/true is idiotic
[22:44:28] <oninoshiko> i know! its mind blowing... well one of them is the twit that thinks main needs to both return and exit
[22:44:34] <vmlemon> What advantage do the GNUtils actually have over the Solaris counterparts, since the Solaris versions also have source code available?
[22:44:52] <pfn> vmlemon, people from linux are familiar with the gnu utils
[22:44:57] <tsoome1> gnu utils support --help :P
[22:44:58] <gdamore> vmlemon: none, except people are moving from linux.
[22:45:05] <pfn> vmlemon, gnu tends to follow bsd conventions while solaris follows svr4
[22:45:06] <twincest> vmlemon: coloured ls!!!
[22:45:16] <Stric> there are lots of additional features which people actually use and like
[22:45:18] <pfn> twincest, solaris doesn't have gnu fileutils, thus, no colorls
[22:45:20] <palowoda> Oh God color ls again.
[22:45:22] * pfn wants color ls...
[22:45:27] * stevel likes color ls
[22:45:32] * Stric likes color ls
[22:45:33] <twincest> pfn: fileutils is part of coreutils
[22:45:33] <gdamore> i never said we shouldn't have gnu ls for example.  but we don't need gnu "true", "logname", "hostid", etc.
[22:45:47] <oninoshiko> : does like colour ls too
[22:45:48] * vmlemon also likes coloured ls
[22:45:49] <noyb> let's go crazy and think that we're going to remove 200k from 100 items...  That seems like a lot of work, and it would buy us 20MB.  Whoopdy ** do.
[22:45:52] <palowoda> Than make the svr4 ls colors capable
[22:45:55] <gdamore> because apart from --help and --version, those utilities offer *zero* functionality that is *different* from Solaris.
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[22:45:59] <twincest> (i don't use coloured ls though, ls -F is enough for me)
[22:46:10] <pfn> I installed gnu fileutils on sunos4 all the time
[22:46:26] <gdamore> noyb: that 20MB might be very significant to some users.  it would have saved me a world of pain a couple of days ago.
[22:46:31] <EchoBinary> i colored my ls once, but my mom made me wash it off
[22:46:41] <oninoshiko> o.0?
[22:46:42] <noyb> gdamore: agreed.
[22:46:55] <gdamore> someday it may make the difference between a single DVD install and a multi DVD install.
[22:47:29] <gdamore> never mind the fact that systems working set by having two different utilities that do the same thing takes a hit.
[22:47:46] <EchoBinary> gdamore: you get what you pay for? :)
[22:47:52] <gdamore> i admit that this is all small potatoes.  but add enough small potatoes together, and it starts to add up.
[22:47:53] <palowoda> gdamore: How do you determine the importance of owners of small drives?
[22:48:06] <noyb> gdamore: and it might be nice to have some mechanism to manage what goes into the system install for such users. And a simple checkbox for the rest of us that just want everything.
[22:48:07] <gdamore> the drives we have today will one day be small.
[22:48:08] <pfn> hmm, which package includes 'cc' ?
[22:48:27] <oninoshiko> YOU GET POTATO SOUP!!!
[22:48:30] <vmlemon> The GNU file does seem to have a larger, more concise database of file types and Magic No.s than the Solaris one
[22:48:58] <gdamore> i'm all for having the GNU versions available when they offer enhancements or ease-of-use improvements to users coming from linux.
[22:48:59] <tsoome1> then upgrade the /etc/magic
[22:49:01] <twincest> vmlemon: so merge the gnu magic into solaris
[22:49:07] <palowoda> Potato soup and bacon sounds kind of good right now.
[22:49:22] <oninoshiko> yeah... doesnt it?
[22:49:29] <oninoshiko> with a creamy sause
[22:49:34] <gdamore> today i don't do all that much that is different from what I did 15 years ago... apart from this IRC client that is.
[22:49:35] <oninoshiko> mmmm
[22:49:44] <palowoda> Crap now I'm hungry.
[22:49:51] <gdamore> yet 15 years ago my system was zippy and useful... on a 50MHz 486 with 32 MB RAM.
[22:49:52] * oninoshiko is evil
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[22:50:15] <gdamore> now I need  a 1.8GHz opteron with 1G to do the same things without feeling "pain".
[22:50:16] <noyb> palowoda: need help?
[22:50:18] <pfn> my system was never zippy and useful on a 486 with 32mb ram
[22:50:19] <gdamore> that's bloat.
[22:50:19] <pfn> heh
[22:50:20] <Stric> if you want bloat, try java ;)
[22:50:28] * vmlemon wants an Auto-Update function for /etc/magic ;)
[22:50:31] <pfn> I could barely run emacs without feeling pain
[22:50:39] <palowoda> 1.8Ghz Opterons are slow by todays standards
[22:50:44] <gdamore> pfn: once upon a time mine was.
[22:50:59] <gdamore> right.  people are coding for Moore's Law.  ("coding" might be too generious here.)
[22:51:00] <oninoshiko> gee thats fun... ive always felt pain when i *SEE* someone running emacs
[22:51:17] <vmlemon> I use vim at the CLI, and KWrite otherwise
[22:51:25] <gdamore> emacs is, and always will be, painful, on any hardware. ;-)
[22:51:38] <EchoBinary> i like emacs
[22:51:41] <pfn> I always need vi-keybindings
[22:51:42] <SYS64738> do you have this file in the default install: /etc/webmin/miniserv.conf ?
[22:51:43] <pfn> regardless of editor
[22:51:46] <oninoshiko> i use vim, there is no otherwise
[22:51:52] <palowoda> I thought everbody on this channel was at least using 2.8ghz dual core amd boxes.
[22:52:00] * EchoBinary uses MS Word
[22:52:08] <vmlemon> Some still have creaking Pentium 4s and older ;)
[22:52:13] <oninoshiko> : is on a core 2 duo
[22:52:24] <gdamore> heh.  i tried recently to run a 700MHz Celeron.
[22:52:37] <gdamore> and only about a year ago I ran Solaris on a 133MHz Pentium.
[22:52:38] <palowoda> The good old days.
[22:53:15] <fortytwo_> ah, installation froze when a usb thumbdrive was plugged in
[22:53:50] <gdamore> now, i'm having trouble because my older 700MHz won't run with only a 4G drive.  (I need 2G free for the NIC test suites I need to run.)
[22:53:51] <fortytwo_> now it works fine.
[22:53:51] <vmlemon> You should try FreeBSD on an Acer laptop - plug in a USB keyboard, unplug it and then reconnect it, and the whole box crashes
[22:53:59] <gdamore> 20MB is 1% of that drive space. ;-)
[22:54:20] <pfn> 2gb for a nic test suite?
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[22:55:22] <gdamore> it needs a bunch of space for scratch files to ftp around.
[22:55:35] * vmlemon wishes that the loopback interface was sniffable on Solaris
[22:55:36] <trygvis> palowoda: I have two livingroom servers, p3 450MHz
[22:55:38] <asyd> :s &'
[22:55:39] <asyd> oups
[22:55:46] * trygvis just installed a mv88 card in one of them
[22:55:49] <gdamore> vmlemon: that will soon be addressed, I think.
[22:55:57] <pfn> wtf is :s &'... some vi command I guess, but what's it do?
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[22:56:15] <vmlemon> I've tried with both Sun Snoop and tshark, and both just give an error about DLCI(?)
[22:56:17] <palowoda> trygvis: Nobody cares anymore.  It's just not good PR.
[22:56:38] <trygvis> hm?
[22:57:24] <EchoBinary> no such thing as bad Press
[22:57:25] <noyb> palowoda: Ecclesiastes 7:10     (The good old days)   :-)
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[22:58:11] <palowoda> Err the only PR you get about old drives is on IRC channels :-)
[22:59:07] <vmlemon> I can't tell if my OEM Samsung HDD is in it's way out, or not, although it sometimes sounds like it
[22:59:15] <trygvis> weee .. and it is working!
[22:59:22] <trygvis> coffman_zzz: ping
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[23:00:57] <pfn> vmlemon, no SMART?
[23:01:29] <vmlemon> It has SMART, as far as I know
[23:01:38] <EchoBinary> S-M-R-T
[23:01:41] <EchoBinary> ....  DOH!
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[23:04:00] <vmlemon> Turns out that /dev/hda (the Samsung) doesn't support SMART or Self Test Logging :(
[23:04:23] <vmlemon> Unless I don't have SMART related components installed/in kernel
[23:04:38] <vmlemon> Although another tool informed me that they were SMART enabled
[23:04:45] <oninoshiko> hrm... i thought SMART was pritty much standard now
[23:04:58] * vmlemon thinks that smartctl may be lying
[23:05:19] <oninoshiko> smartctl isn't?
[23:07:17] <vmlemon> hdparm reckons that "SMART feature set" IS enabled on it, so I don't know which tool to trust
[23:08:18] <pfn> vmlemon, well, smartd is running?
[23:08:33] <vmlemon> It's running
[23:08:45] <pfn> vmlemon, then smartctl -t
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[23:10:11] <asyd> /S 13
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[23:10:56] <vmlemon> Not sure if it's to do with the harmonisation of device nodes as SCSI notes, even though the underlying devices are PATA
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[23:11:00] <vmlemon> *nodes
[23:11:35] <vmlemon> "unable to fetch IEC (SMART) mode page [unsupported field in scsi command]"
[23:12:51] <pfn> vmlemon, it works fine for me... on pata drives
[23:13:20] <pfn> http://paste.hanhuy.com/smartctlOutput
[23:15:00] <pfn> vmlemon, if you reload, you'll see the command I used as well
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[23:18:24] <vmlemon> http://paster.dazjorz.com/?p=760 is what I get
[23:18:34] <vmlemon> I'm doubting which output is correct, though
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[23:19:11] <nrubsig> !seen kupfer
[23:19:14] <Drone> kupfer (kupfer!n=kupfer at 192 dot 18.43.225) was last seen in #opensolaris on Wed 27 Jun 2007 20:31 GMT, saying 'hi Rich'.
[23:19:21] <nrubsig> grumpf... ;-(
[23:20:07] <pfn> vmlemon, sounds like smartctl doesn't support the drive then
[23:20:53] <vmlemon> Odd, I've seem it listed as SMART enabled under Gentoo on this machine
[23:21:18] <vmlemon> Dunno if *buntu's version is older, or not
[23:22:11] * pfn shrugs
[23:22:15] <vmlemon> *seen
[23:22:51] <vmlemon> Yay for contradictory information from two utilities for the same device :(
[23:23:34] <oninoshiko> HIP HIP HORR... oh... wait... that was sarcasum wasnt it?
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[23:31:33] <Stric> vmlemon: try smartctl -a -d scsi /dev/sda
[23:33:54] <vmlemon> "Device does not support SMART"
[23:34:13] <vmlemon> Same story with sdb
[23:34:23] <vmlemon> Although in reality, both support it
[23:34:26] <Stric> err. -d ata  I mean
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[23:34:42] <vmlemon> I get something, now
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[23:35:08] <vmlemon> Thanks
[23:35:12] <Stric> since it's through the scsi layer, smartctl assumes that it's a scsi device on the other end too and talks scsi-smart with it
[23:35:24] <Stric> I think it's fixed in the latest version
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[23:35:56] <Stric> fixed in 5.37 for instance, but not 5.32 (not sure about those inbetween)
[23:36:08] <vmlemon> "SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.", "SMART support is: Enabled"
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[23:37:58] <vmlemon> Hmm, "==> WARNING: May need -F samsung or -F samsung2 enabled; see manual for details."
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[23:48:59] <nrubsig> !summon --magiccode=0x72848299838838187191375096283956573298+15p kupfer
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[23:51:09] <PerterB> back in your box, nrubsig :)
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[23:52:00] <nrubsig> PerterB: ?!
[23:52:13] <PerterB> never mind
[23:52:20] <nrubsig> ah
[23:52:54] <nrubsig> PerterB: you mean "... [go] back in your cage [you monster] ..." ?
[23:53:21] <PerterB> well, the idiom is more like what you would say to a pet dog, but close enough :)
[23:53:47] * nrubsig growls
[23:53:55] * nrubsig bites PerterB in his leg
[23:54:02] <PerterB> in jest, of course
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[23:54:11] * PerterB checks his rabies cover
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[23:54:52] * nrubsig bites alfism in his leg, too.
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[23:55:10] * nrubsig bites koolniczka in his leg, too.
[23:55:50] <PerterB> careful, or we'll have to have you neutered if you get too agressive
[23:56:14] <koolniczka> *has two cats, he's used to and didn't even notice
[23:56:26] <koolniczka> I mean  /me
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