[00:00:10] * jmcp cranks Brahms
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[00:02:01] <Peanut> 'Sun ray can now have all the benefits of the 3d graphics accelaration of a high end workstation' woot? :-) (the youtube link)
[00:02:46] <jamesd> Peanut, re paste the link
[00:02:53] <delewis> Peanut, I'm "somewhat" skeptical. :-)
[00:03:08] <delewis> I knew Sun Rays were getting Xvideo, but accelerated OpenGL is a bit much..
[00:03:26] <Peanut> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roO8i6RGqLk
[00:04:14] <Peanut> delewis: might be a bit much, but would certainly be very welcome to me :)
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[00:04:26] <delewis> well, I would like Xvideo :-)
[00:04:31] <delewis> don't know if that ever happened or not.
[00:04:50] <Peanut> They're showing it, sorta..
[00:05:37] <Auralis> lol, they use 2 nvidia quadroplexes together ....
[00:06:22] <quasi> Peanut: looks like a nice home system with the sunray, x4600 and a couple of nvidia cards ;)
[00:07:09] <elektronkind> I was at SC06 and saw that setup first hand
[00:07:49] <Peanut> elektronkind: and? Any good?
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[00:08:08] <wamty> Does ITIL exactly exist? Or is it merely defined by summaries and descriptions of what it is?
[00:08:25] <elektronkind> I'm not terribly interested in the visualization aspect of HPC but it was pretty eat
[00:08:41] <elektronkind> I spent most of my time talking about storage and OpenMPI
[00:08:56] <elektronkind> ITIL?
[00:09:09] <quasi> wamty: http://www.itil.co.uk/faqs.htm - but I fail to see the relevance for #opensolaris
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[00:11:22] <Peanut> elektronkind: I'm not that interested in the visualisation aspects of HPC myself - but OpenGL on my SunRay, now that would be neat ;-)
[00:11:36] <andersmo> wamty: it's a big pile of big and bloody expensive books. =)
[00:11:42] <Auralis> if i can get opengl and xvrido on a sunray i'm so there
[00:12:04] <quasi> andersmo: and a nightmare when implemented wrong
[00:12:04] <coffman> uh yeah
[00:12:19] * Peanut really just wants Stellarium to work well on SunRay, then I'll shut up ;)
[00:12:29] <wamty> quasi: Books, eh?
[00:12:41] <wamty> I'll bet $50 my college library doesn't have them. :/
[00:13:05] <Peanut> wamty: I hope for your sake they don't.
[00:13:08] * Stric noticed today that a quick way to logoff their sunray setups is to start 3d stuff in matlab
[00:13:18] <CIA-22> Norm Jacobs: 6512841 lpadmin performs poorly with large numbers of print queues.
[00:13:25] <Jiko> ITIL really isn't that bad, most of it's just common sense
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[00:14:04] <quasi> Jiko: if implemented right
[00:14:29] <Jiko> quasi: oh, sure
[00:14:35] <jmcp> hi Jiko
[00:14:40] <Jiko> ITIL's really about picking what works for your organisation
[00:14:43] <Jiko> hey jmcp
[00:14:49] <Peanut> Stric: logoff or getting logged off forecfully?
[00:14:56] <Jiko> or doesn't work, as the case may be
[00:15:13] <CIA-22> apersson: 6509782 protocols/ndpd.h is in the wrong place
[00:16:08] <Stric> Peanut: *splat*, you're out :P
[00:16:20] <Peanut> No, ITIL is about spending about two cartwheel loads of  money on a supposed ITIL compliant ticket tracking system that is not compatible with a unix desktop, leads to RSI complaints because of all the useless clicking and especially useless mandatory fields, and keeps randomly losing trouble tickets.
[00:16:46] <richlowe> b.o.... oh.
[00:17:03] <quasi> Peanut: sounds familiar ;)
[00:17:03] <Peanut> richlowe: can I buy an 'n' ?
[00:17:11] <jteo> b.o.o?
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[00:23:11] <hspaans> itil isn't really a problem, it even works, but every managers thinks his vision of how a business should be destroyed is better and starts complaining the processes are subefficient in itil. but he forgets that itil is the result of years of development looking how companies work and describing that as a good framework for you processes. ow and sorry for my wicked view on 90% of the managers
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[00:29:22] <quasi> hspaans: I see a much larger problem in that itil is generic and flexible enough that it is easy to misunderstand and abuse
[00:30:50] <lloy0076> I hate SJAS; really.
[00:31:10] <lloy0076> One follows "the instructions" to get a JDBC driver to work and presto...it doesn't work.
[00:31:17] <lloy0076> </end rant>
[00:31:34] <hspaans> quasi: thats more a people problem, but yes its a large problem :(
[00:32:17] <quasi> "ITIL sounds smart, where can I buy one"
[00:33:06] <hspaans> like ISO-9001 and ISO-9002 ;-)
[00:33:54] <TrogL> I haven't been able to find the ITIL documentation to download.
[00:33:59] <quasi> iso is so much more fun - it is perfectly ok to break something as long as you break it consistently every time
[00:34:03] <delewis> ugh.
[00:34:23] <delewis> not that I've previously heard of ITIL before tonight, but it looks like a random concatenation of various buzzwords.
[00:34:52] <delewis> and most if it is common sense, if you can parse the random concatenations.
[00:34:59] <TrogL> unfotunately, they want to iplement those buzzwords here and I've so far managed to stay ahead of the curve
[00:35:01] <hspaans> quasi: jups ;-)
[00:35:48] <quasi> TrogL: staying ahead could include moving on before the shit hits the fan ;)
[00:36:43] <hspaans> TrogL: don't stay ahead, learn and (ab)use it ;-)
[00:37:34] <TrogL> that's my plan.  I've already gotten brownie points for just knowning it exists
[00:38:38] <Jiko> so many jobs these days are asking for ITIL experience
[00:39:31] <hspaans> Jiko: so? its only that you have common sense of how things work. itil foundation isn't more than that
[00:39:36] <Peanut> Wow.. you can just download the Sun Shared Visualisation.
[00:39:50] <hspaans> Peanut: logical domains?
[00:40:10] <Peanut> hspaans: Visualisation, not Virtualisation.
[00:40:14] <Jiko> hspaans: well, understanding how the ITIL stuff is structred does help
[00:41:26] <hspaans> Jiko: that fun part is, 99% of people already do itil but don't know it. the moment they know its itil they snap
[00:41:47] <hspaans> Peanut: damn :(
[00:41:58] <CIA-22> Justin Frank: 6436999 Page Retirement feature cannot retire ISM pages with CE errors and induces high sys time.; 6508988 page retire kstat pr_pending no longer functional
[00:42:19] <Peanut> Well done, Justin Frank :)
[00:42:45] <Peanut> hspaans: going to nlsosug tomorrow?
[00:42:56] <hspaans> Peanut: jups
[00:43:13] <Peanut> I'll have to skip this time, already have another meeting.
[00:43:26] <hspaans> you where there the last time?
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[00:43:30] <Peanut> Yes
[00:43:34] <milek> hi
[00:43:52] <hspaans> Peanut: and you didn't said anything?
[00:44:04] * quasi was at nlsosug last time too, but not planning to attend the future ones
[00:44:04] <hspaans> or you did?
[00:44:05] <Peanut> hspaans: I said lots of things in that meeting *grin*
[00:44:30] <quasi> nlosug
[00:44:54] <Peanut> quasi: where are you from?
[00:44:55] <hspaans> quasi: you were the english talking dude in the back?
[00:45:04] <quasi> Peanut: .dk
[00:45:15] <quasi> hspaans: english talking dude in the front
[00:45:25] <hspaans> picture time
[00:45:49] <Peanut> bedtime actually
[00:45:50] <quasi> Peanut: but I worked in .nl for 6 months last year (on joost.com
[00:45:53] <quasi> )
[00:46:31] <hspaans> hmmm
[00:48:27] <Peanut> g'night
[00:48:34] <hspaans> g'night
[00:48:36] <quasi> night
[00:50:07] <hspaans> The one joke I didn't entirely miss was the one about why they chose NLOSUG rather than NOSUG. <-- ghehhe
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[00:52:05] <CIA-22> Ryan Scott: 6516582 'eeprom' warns if menu.lst entry is not default
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[01:12:46] <Auralis> the new xfce 4.4 is realy nice
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[01:15:18] <UnixTitan> Auralis: the new e17 is really nice
[01:15:39] <Auralis> except that its not compiling here
[01:15:54] <sommerfeld> joerg says: "We should keep out UNIX tools"
[01:15:57] <UnixTitan> I told ya how to make it compile :)
[01:16:19] <Stric> http://www.acc.umu.se/~stric/bs-e.jpg <- enlightenment screenshot on solaris from '99 ;)
[01:16:22] <sommerfeld> (I'm assuming that's a typo, but....)
[01:17:08] <sommerfeld> Stric: Ummm....
[01:17:44] <coffman> i got e17 running on b55 :)
[01:18:03] <Auralis> Stric: lol
[01:18:05] <Stric> I think it was an SS5 or so
[01:18:10] <Stric> with turbogx
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[01:19:51] <UnixTitan> Stric: http://www.ecoding.org/files/images/e17_on_solaris.png
[01:19:54] <UnixTitan> e on solaris presently :)
[01:20:29] <UnixTitan> also www.ecoding.org/files/images/e_using_clearlooks.png
[01:20:32] <UnixTitan> thats on solaris as well
[01:22:44] <coffman> UnixTitan:  the site looks down to me
[01:23:04] <UnixTitan> its not
[01:23:14] <Auralis> works fine
[01:25:08] <coffman> gnar
[01:26:46] <coffman> need to smack my isp then
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[01:28:01] <coffman> yeah greate
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[01:44:53] <Chile`> UnixTitan: is that accelerated?
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[01:59:56] <BadKarma> meh
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[02:04:09] <elektronkind> so what's this dboot thing for x86?
[02:04:24] <movement> elektronkind: a rewrite of the way we boot on x86
[02:04:27] <movement> to be much saner and simpler
[02:04:46] <elektronkind> this is post-grub I take it?
[02:04:51] <richlowe> except the $ bits.
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[02:59:12] <movement> richlowe: there?
[02:59:57] <alanc> wow - when I break things, they really break
[03:00:12] <alanc> my Xorg just crashed with "Signal 70656"
[03:00:53] <jbk> wow
[03:02:32] <lloy0076> heh
[03:02:41] <lloy0076> You should use them as lottery numbers.
[03:02:44] <jamesd> hmm your  char/short just turned into an  int
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[03:06:57] <alanc> walkcontext() says it passes an int to me
[03:07:18] <alanc> http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/lib/libc/port/gen/walkstack.c is rather scary though
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[03:10:11] <alanc> though perhaps the scariest part is that I'm crashing in dlopen()
[03:12:24] <andrei> http://www.skysurprise.com/ -- pretty funny site :-)
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[03:12:45] <andrei> has nothing to do with OpenSolaris though... sorry
[03:13:14] <alanc> the black text on black background telling me Solaris's flash is too old to view it is just sad
[03:13:32] <andrei> yeah, it needs flash9
[03:13:57] <dwc-> ow.... flash9...
[03:14:39] <Odin-LAP> That's what, Win or MacOS only?
[03:14:52] <Auralis> as usual
[03:15:05] <Stric> +linux now
[03:15:08] <alanc> Flash 9 for Linux came out last week
[03:15:16] <Odin-LAP> Hm. Neat.
[03:15:37] <UnixTitan>  which includes audio now right yea?
[03:15:46] <UnixTitan> thats a big + for linux. flash with audio.
[03:16:04] <alanc> Flash 7 for Solaris has audio
[03:16:38] <lloy0076> Flash7 for Solaris does most stuff.
[03:16:52] <lloy0076> Occasionally I have to fiddle a bit to make sure that the stupid sites don't block it because it's too old.
[03:17:06] <lloy0076> Is there any chance there *might* be a newer Solaris native Flash plugin though?
[03:17:36] <Stric> alanc: synced too?
[03:17:45] <Stric> alanc: flash7 for linux couldn't keep a/v sync
[03:17:48] <andrei> the site is about free T-Mobile HotSpot access for Windows Vista users, but the dialogs between "the cosmonaughty" Yuri and Sergei are just too funny :-)
[03:18:20] <alanc> Stric: I don't know - I've only watched a couple YouTube videos and didn't notice major sync problems
[03:18:38] <Stric> alanc: ok, youtube quickly got out of sync with 7/linux
[03:18:53] <Odin-LAP> Never happened to me...
[03:19:20] <lloy0076> andrei: The cosmo what?
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[03:20:13] <Stric> "The notorious A/V sync problems with Player 7 on Linux were not a result of some fundamental inability of the Player to maintain sync."
[03:20:27] <Stric> (from the coder)
[03:21:57] <coffman> andrei: lol - we in germany try to get ride of the telekom and in the usa they are hip
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[03:22:58] <edwardocallaghan> Hi all
[03:23:12] <edwardocallaghan> boyd:Are you around
[03:23:21] <edwardocallaghan> I got a story for you
[03:26:08] <andrei> coffman: glad you've enjoyed it :-)
[03:26:48] <andrei> lloy0076: the word "cosmonauts" in Russian sounds like "cosmonaughty" :-)
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[03:36:44] <jmcp> why can't I eject media as me with snv_56 ?
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[03:51:20] <edwardocallaghan> jmcp:Hi
[03:51:41] <edwardocallaghan> Remind me, are you in Australia or Canada ?
[03:53:08] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: Australia
[03:59:52] <edwardocallaghan> Ah
[03:59:54] <edwardocallaghan> Good
[04:00:45] <edwardocallaghan> does this sound funny too you, CIT (Collage) want to know the exact time I will be there and they know I am coming from London!
[04:02:37] <jmcp> that sounds to me as if they
[04:02:48] <jmcp> want to make sure of your travel details so they can meet you
[04:03:01] <jmcp> are you going to study @ CIT?
[04:03:52] <edwardocallaghan> Well they said they need to know 'urgent' for the keys and contract for the accommodation
[04:03:56] <edwardocallaghan> Yes
[04:04:04] <edwardocallaghan> Is that good ?
[04:04:09] <jmcp> I would think so
[04:04:28] <edwardocallaghan> They so to 1 or 2 ^ ?
[04:04:33] <movement> hmm
[04:04:36] <movement> struct foo {
[04:04:42] <movement>    int blah;
[04:04:47] <movement>    char foo[1];
[04:04:48] <movement> }
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[04:04:58] <movement> now how the heck do I copyin the full foo?
[04:05:35] <movement> that's a dtrace copyin in case it wasn't obvious
[04:06:48] <boyd> edwardocallaghan: Sorta, but teaching a course
[04:07:48] <movement> hmm I suppose I can work around it
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[04:09:00] <PF> Wow, I finally got my (built-in) Marvell Yukon 88E8001 gigabit ethernet device working in Solaris 10...It was a research intensive ordeal
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[04:10:38] <edwardocallaghan> boyd:Hi
[04:10:47] <edwardocallaghan> So do you know CIT
[04:10:48] <PF> If anyone needs help (ethernet device help) with resepct to a Asus K8V motherboard...I'm the human to talk to
[04:11:30] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: I did 2 years @ anu, friends of mine went to UCan.
[04:11:41] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: which suburb are you staying in, and which campus will you be attending?
[04:11:57] <movement> d'oh
[04:12:38] <edwardocallaghan> I am doing a advanced diploma of electronic engineering
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[04:13:23] <edwardocallaghan> And I'm going to be staying in Bruce
[04:13:36] <edwardocallaghan> Is that good
[04:13:58] <edwardocallaghan> First time I did anything on this kind of scale
[04:14:00] <elektronkind> mph
[04:14:13] * elektronkind continues writing his mutipath tutorial
[04:14:18] <edwardocallaghan> Should make me grow up quick I guess
[04:14:27] <edwardocallaghan> elektronkind:Hi
[04:14:58] <elektronkind> hey edwardo
[04:15:03] <elektronkind> how's it going?
[04:15:10] <PF> Electronic Eng., is that the same as Electrical Eng, ?
[04:15:19] <edwardocallaghan> I am organizing the whole thing on my own, so lets see how it goes
[04:15:29] <edwardocallaghan> No not at all !
[04:15:38] <edwardocallaghan> PF:^
[04:15:51] <elektronkind> PF: doesn't marvell supply solaris drivers for the yukon?
[04:16:19] <PF> Not for the K8V motherboard
[04:16:43] <PF> Which supports AMD64
[04:17:32] <edwardocallaghan> jmcp:
[04:17:32] <edwardocallaghan> boyd:
[04:17:32] <edwardocallaghan> If you can let me know anything you know about CIT, it would be very helpful for me to sync in to it all... Thanks
[04:18:16] <edwardocallaghan> %s/in to/with/
[04:18:18] <PF> edwardocallaghan: Which degree displine is more rigorous?
[04:18:44] <edwardocallaghan> PF:Electronic
[04:19:07] <PF> Is that a four year degree?
[04:19:16] <edwardocallaghan> PF:Electrical is more broad
[04:19:31] <edwardocallaghan> PF:No, 2 & 1/2
[04:19:39] <PF> O, I see
[04:19:57] <edwardocallaghan> Its not a degree it's a advanced diploma
[04:20:39] <edwardocallaghan> Then I want to move on to Astronomy / Astrophysics degree
[04:20:56] <PF> That's neat
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[04:21:29] <edwardocallaghan> After that then see how money is going at that stage then do a another degree in Mathematics (If I can by then)
[04:22:03] <edwardocallaghan> Its looking like I want to stay in Australia and go with CSIRO
[04:22:34] <edwardocallaghan> See how things roll out, I kind of need help along the way. I can see its going to be very hard !
[04:22:45] <edwardocallaghan> PF:Thanks
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[04:29:23] <edwardocallaghan> guys; What do you think is the best way to get my SB2000 out there ?
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[04:31:46] <e^ipi> yo
[04:32:28] <edwardocallaghan> ho
[04:32:38] <e^ipi> <-- Error_404
[04:32:41] <e^ipi> how's it going?
[04:33:43] <edwardocallaghan> Why does ebay still not work properly with firefox ?
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[04:35:08] <Vratha> hi
[04:35:25] <Vratha> are there any opensolaris projects to create a userspace device driver framework?
[04:36:23] <Vratha> if not, maybe i should port my framework over and create kernel hooks to allow this
[04:37:55] <e^ipi> like FUSE you mean?
[04:38:04] <Vratha> sorta, except for device drivers
[04:39:23] <e^ipi> oh
[04:39:30] <e^ipi> why would you want such a thing
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[04:39:40] <e^ipi> userland process diddling hardware = bad
[04:39:41] <Vratha> for safety and scalability
[04:39:46] <Vratha> no, it's not bad
[04:39:55] <Vratha> it's much safer than kernel-land drivers
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[04:40:29] <dlg> im sure the latency wont be bad
[04:40:40] <Vratha> it won't be for the right kind of applications
[04:41:00] <Vratha> if latency is not the bottleneck, you don't lose performance from the message passing
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[04:41:29] <Vratha> anyway, it'd allow solaris to enter many more markets
[04:41:49] <e^ipi> meh, i don't like the idea of a userland process being able to directly write to memory without kernel+MMU intervention
[04:41:54] <e^ipi> so i'll pass
[04:42:11] <Vratha> e^ipi: uh, that's the point; the kernel HAS to intervene at some point
[04:42:28] <Vratha> because a userland process cannot write outside its memory regions without privileged help
[04:42:55] <CIA-22> Justin Frank: 6476814 240 missing fans after boot - race condition
[04:43:04] <Vratha> but perhaps you should read some papers on userspace driver frameworks and how they're vastly superior to kernel drivers for systems where failure is not an option
[04:43:59] <e^ipi> perhaps i should
[04:44:12] <e^ipi> i never claimed to be correct, just that the idea made me nervous
[04:44:20] <Vratha> hehe
[04:44:47] <e^ipi> when it's proven to me (mach doesn't count... mach sucks) i'll accept it without issue
[04:44:49] <Vratha> i mean think about it this way: do you want a poorly written driver on a laser eye surgery system to accidentally panic the kernel?
[04:44:58] <e^ipi> yes
[04:45:08] <e^ipi> better than the system continuing to run in a degraded state
[04:45:09] <Vratha> you do want a driver to panic the system?
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[04:45:19] <e^ipi> yes, i do
[04:45:22] <Vratha> no, you don't
[04:45:29] <Vratha> what if the laser doesn't turn off?
[04:45:37] <Vratha> oops!
[04:45:40] <e^ipi> if a driver for eg, a harddrive just fails, i'd prefer the system panic on me than pass me bad data
[04:45:49] <Vratha> yeah, and you'll have a burnt eye
[04:46:08] <Vratha> you want the driver to affect the least systems it has to affect
[04:48:33] <Vratha> the old thinking about userspace drivers being bad for safety is flawed.. if people went on thinking that systems shouldn't run in a degraded state probably think that systems should also completely crash when a particular app crashes
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[04:48:51] <Vratha> and then we're right back to DOS
[04:49:02] <e^ipi> depends on the app
[04:49:34] <alanc> X on x86 has been a user-space driver framework for almost 2 decades now
[04:49:55] <Vratha> i don't think so.. anytime processing can continue, even in a degraded state, it should... that can give time for a safe shutdown of everything so everything is in a known state before a full reboot or anything
[04:50:18] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[04:50:41] <Vratha> alanc: word
[04:50:53] <Vratha> alanc: but it's not exactly what i'm talkig about
[04:51:15] <e^ipi> X is a pretty bad example... I've had X lock up my system before
[04:51:21] <e^ipi> as a userland process
[04:51:29] <Vratha> i bet SSH still worked :)
[04:51:32] <e^ipi> nope
[04:51:36] <Vratha> always has on my system, even when it's locked up
[04:51:38] <Vratha> yeah, whatever
[04:52:13] <e^ipi> *shrug* believe it or don't, even telnet didn't work
[04:53:27] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[04:54:12] <e^ipi> however, X sucking and the theory behind the idea are two different things
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[04:55:31] <edwardocallaghan> e^ipi:Maybe it was not X that crash but a kernel driver that crash everything above it
[04:55:42] <edwardocallaghan> Maybe your fb ?
[04:56:38] <e^ipi> hasn't happened in a long time, I don't really care why it happened at the moment
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[04:56:46] <edwardocallaghan> I think scanner, digi cameras bla bla bla should be userland. If they are not already ?
[04:57:16] <edwardocallaghan> Maybe brown out
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[05:01:08] <ibb> is there a way to get the system off a freezing point, after it locked up?
[05:01:48] <e^ipi> login to console if you can
[05:02:22] <e^ipi> if you can't, powerdown
[05:02:41] <edwardocallaghan> kill -9 me
[05:03:05] <edwardocallaghan> Its ok I'll have 8 left ;)
[05:03:18] <ibb> cant do anything, system froze
[05:03:18] <ibb> lol edwardocallaghan
[05:04:12] <ibb> there is no alt+ctl+del
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[05:06:51] * e^ipi hugs berkley & MIT
[05:07:08] <e^ipi> they both put a whole ton of CS courses online
[05:07:16] <e^ipi> so i don't have to be completely bored this semester
[05:07:34] <Vratha> edwardocallaghan: yeah, i definitely think it makes sense to put certain drivers in userspace.. especially ones that should impact the least amount of subsystems when safety is more important than performance
[05:07:52] <Vratha> i guess i'll start porting my framework in a few months
[05:08:18] <Qapf> is the xen stuff in opensolaris at this stage useable? or is it still in a very infant stage? last update on the opensolaris site for it was in august
[05:13:17] <movement> Qapf: it's usable
[05:13:28] <movement> Qapf: but massively changed since august's release
[05:14:58] <edwardocallaghan> Found this really cool thing http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=13548
[05:15:12] <edwardocallaghan> Vratha:Can I help with that please ?
[05:16:41] <Qapf> movement, im looking to run a copy of windows 2000 for some stupid app that cost way too much and does way too little, is it stable enough to tinker with or are there better virtulization products for solaris? ive been googling and im not seeing anything but xen
[05:16:41] <edwardocallaghan> TCP/IP stack is crap on Fedora :p
[05:17:02] <e^ipi> this surprises you?
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[05:17:21] <edwardocallaghan> no not at all
[05:17:31] <edwardocallaghan> It can't even run Firefox
[05:17:53] <e^ipi> that one's odd
[05:18:04] <e^ipi> firefox's X11 reference platform is almost certainly linux
[05:18:46] <edwardocallaghan> I'll be right back, after a word from my kernel panic, arrrrrr :p
[05:19:39] <Vratha> edwardocallaghan: sure!  i can let you know when i start porting.. i'm finishing it on another OS right now and then have to write the rest of my thesis about it
[05:19:56] <Vratha> edwardocallaghan: any help on it would be great for productivity and ideas :)
[05:21:31] <Vratha> i'll also try to get it added to the list of projects on opensolaris.org when i start moving it over
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[05:24:18] <edwardocallaghan> Vratha:OK good stuff, always around here as its my fav IRC chan
[05:24:58] <edwardocallaghan> + my contacts are here : http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EdwardOcallaghan
[05:25:04] <Vratha> edwardocallaghan: are you part of driver-discuss mailing list?
[05:25:12] <Vratha> ah, thanks :)
[05:25:29] <edwardocallaghan> No, but I guess I will be soon
[05:25:50] <Vratha> i just joined that list but won't be posting for a while
[05:25:58] <Vratha> i'll just lurk until i'm ready to start moving it
[05:26:09] <edwardocallaghan> I have a strong background in Electronics, ASM for RISC and Linux as a whole
[05:26:22] <Vratha> i don't want to get everyone ready for someone to start a new project and then me not actually starting for a few months... because right now i have to finish my thesis on the topic
[05:26:43] <Vratha> sweet :)
[05:26:56] <Vratha> i sorta doubt much of the framework will need to be in ASM
[05:27:13] <edwardocallaghan> Vratha:I am on my way to Australia so I will be unsettled for a week or too, does dismiss me as gone or anything
[05:27:20] <Vratha> probably none of it will need to be in ASM i hope
[05:27:35] <jbk> assembly's fun :)
[05:27:45] <Vratha> edwardocallaghan: np :)  well don't expect me to start moving it right away either ;)
[05:28:04] <Vratha> edwardocallaghan: are you familiar with test-driven development?
[05:28:54] <edwardocallaghan> No same here, I am still needing to do my simple little GTK+ gui tool for ZFS and a package manager for blastware
[05:29:12] <edwardocallaghan> Vratha:What do you mean by that?
[05:29:27] <LeftWing> Pretty sure ZFS already has a GUI tool. ;P
[05:29:48] <Vratha> edwardocallaghan: http://www.agiledata.org/essays/tdd.html
[05:29:53] <SunTzuTech> alanc quick X/Xorg question?
[05:30:06] <edwardocallaghan> Vratha:My the way I am 19, so my have a hole or two in the things I know, tends to get me stuck now and agine
[05:30:26] <alanc> SunTzuTech: okay
[05:30:31] <Vratha> ah, np.. well TDD is pretty easy to pickup if you just continually try to get it right when you code
[05:30:36] <Vratha> it requires discipline more than anything
[05:30:41] <SunTzuTech> does the order of the upgrade scripts matter?
[05:30:45] <edwardocallaghan> LeftWing:No, not a really simple tool on its own that any idiot can use
[05:30:52] <alanc> shouldn't
[05:31:05] <SunTzuTech> cool. BTW, you rock
[05:31:07] <edwardocallaghan> I'm not talking about a web interface
[05:31:37] <SunTzuTech> now i gotta figure out why qt-3.3.7 wouldn't configure with libxrandr
[05:32:04] <e^ipi> steleman's got some patched up Qt packages on an svn server
[05:32:15] <e^ipi> they build with suncc
[05:32:20] <alanc> if it's trying to use pkg-config, we're not all the way there yet with X libraries
[05:32:45] <edwardocallaghan> Cool I'll read up on that TDD when I get a moment !
[05:33:12] <Vratha> edwardocallaghan: sounds good :)  it mainly comes down to writing your tests before you write much functional code
[05:33:27] <Vratha> it helps you think things out and gives you tets you can use for verification the moment you finish the functional code
[05:33:40] <SunTzuTech> oh.  well, that gives me an idea if I run into that.  I can always hack around. :-)
[05:34:09] <edwardocallaghan>  Vratha: Good stuff, I need that kind of info
[05:34:22] <alanc> most config scripts that use pkg-config let you set environment variables to tell it the answers instead
[05:34:49] <SunTzuTech> e^ipi: yeah. chatted with him about that today, but I'm going to stick with a stock gcc build for the time being
[05:35:01] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[05:35:06] <e^ipi> it'll just be slower...
[05:35:19] <alanc> night all
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[05:35:23] <Vratha> edwardocallaghan: it'll probably even come in handy on your existing projects.. i've never found a case where it didn't help me design better and have tests that can verify my code any time i change it
[05:35:26] <e^ipi> and not abi-compatible with anything else unless you compile it with that exact compiler
[05:35:41] <e^ipi> sunCC at least is compatible
[05:36:15] <SunTzuTech> e^ipi: in time, I can see about that.  I'm building something that hasn't been ported to Sun yet, so any ideas of using sunCC is out the window for the time being
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[05:36:30] <e^ipi> *nod*
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[05:36:54] <edwardocallaghan> Vratha:Good stuff, it seems that it will work well with my ASM work, I love ASM for them kind of reasons
[05:37:03] <edwardocallaghan> +less syntax :D ;)
[05:37:14] <Vratha> hehe
[05:37:16] <SunTzuTech> alanc-away: damn that looks *Nice*
[05:37:31] <alanc-away> heh - glad you like it
[05:37:34] <Vratha> and where unit tests can't work, mock objects help make up for them
[05:37:48] <Vratha> and unit tests can test things that have non-deterministic behaviour
[05:37:51] <Vratha> can't*
[05:38:02] <edwardocallaghan> OK well its 4:30am here
[05:38:13] <edwardocallaghan> So I guess I should goto bed now
[05:38:18] <Vratha> hehe, ok :)
[05:38:25] <Vratha> good night!  i'll get in touch in a few months
[05:38:37] <edwardocallaghan> Vratha:Yes thanks and you too
[05:39:01] <edwardocallaghan> By the way, out of interest where are you located ?
[05:39:51] <Vratha> in Illinois in the USA
[05:39:53] <Berny_> well it's 5:30 here... we survived the campus' power test without failure... time for bed...
[05:40:04] <Vratha> i'll be moving near New York City in a few months
[05:40:07] <Vratha> when i take my new job
[05:40:36] <edwardocallaghan> OK so we are both moving
[05:40:54] <edwardocallaghan> Hopefully we will be in sync then
[05:40:57] <Vratha> heh, i guess so :)
[05:41:00] <Vratha> yeah
[05:41:53] <edwardocallaghan> planning, sync and moving, they don't work together I just remembered
[05:42:35] <edwardocallaghan> OK night
[05:42:40] <edwardocallaghan> I'm gone
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[05:54:05] <Gman> Tpenta, ops?
[05:54:42] <Tekni> hrmm cool.. SNDR is coming
[05:54:59] <Tpenta> gman?
[05:55:16] <Gman> want to set the topic
[05:55:30] <Tpenta> what to?
[05:55:41] <ibb> lovely flowers
[05:56:07] <Gman> Tpenta, want to add mention about the OGB stuff
[05:56:44] *** Tpenta sets mode: +o Gman
[05:57:15] *** Gman changes topic to "Latest builds: SXCR: 55b ON: 56 | OGB needs you! : http://tinyurl.com/yvj8ot"
[05:57:28] *** Gman sets mode: -o Gman
[05:57:43] <ibb> nice
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[06:00:00] <ibb> Gman: good topic, important too
[06:00:24] <Gman> ibb, thanks - yeah, i think so too
[06:01:31] <ibb> do you know of the responses so far? this is a yesterday blog so i would think others already saw it
[06:01:50] <Gman> i can see how many people have subscribed to the cab-discuss list
[06:02:17] <ibb> how is it looking so far?
[06:02:50] <Gman> hrm,85 people, don't think there's any change from a couple of days ago
[06:03:04] <Gman> [that's based on mailman membership, not jive forum access]
[06:03:23] <ibb> much difference?
[06:03:36] <Gman> i'd guess the jive forums get hit quite a lot
[06:06:36] <ibb> where is Tpenta in all this?
[06:07:27] <jbk> ahh i love code with comment 'i just copied this from somewhere else and don't know how it works'
[06:08:27] <ibb> hmm, sounds like fun
[06:08:39] <jbk> well it was for autoconf
[06:09:19] <ibb> within autoconf in comments?
[06:09:32] * dlg yawn
[06:09:41] <jbk> it was within code that was trying to be 'portable' via autoconf
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[06:09:58] <dlg> can someone paste me the func prototype for scsi_hba_pkt_alloc in the synopsis for its manpage?
[06:09:58] <jbk> basically trying to figure out if/when it should #include <alloca.h>
[06:10:01] <dlg> in a query?
[06:10:24] <jbk> i can from sol9
[06:10:42] <dlg> nah, it was wrong ina  few releases
[06:10:50] <jbk> oh
[06:10:55] <dlg> but apparently its fixed in snv_55 o rsomething
[06:10:58] <dlg> man, i wish i could type
[06:14:02] <e^ipi> why alloca?
[06:14:58] <jbk> well some platforms include it in stdlib.h
[06:15:01] <jbk> not alloca.h
[06:15:08] <jbk> (i.e. freebsd)
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[06:15:13] * steleman wants to kill PHP
[06:15:19] <e^ipi> do it
[06:15:29] <steleman> Dead PHP doesn't even begin to describe it
[06:15:59] <SunTzuTech> steleman: just ignore me.  i figured it out
[06:16:34] <steleman> oh hi SunTzu
[06:16:40] <steleman> i didnt see your question what was it ?
[06:17:15] <SunTzuTech> mysql and qt.  Course, then I realized that mysql.h was in /usr/sfw/include/mysql/mysql.h....
[06:17:38] <SunTzuTech> and not in /usr/sfw/include like the rest of the includes....
[06:17:39] <steleman> oh yeah
[06:17:46] <Gman> steleman, toughen up :)
[06:17:47] <steleman> mysql is special
[06:18:03] <SunTzuTech> but I just got a new Xorg with Xcursor support. yippee
[06:18:18] <steleman> Gman: i spent the past 5 hours trying to install 2 different PHP apps: a bloggy one and a photo organizer. well, they have incompatible php settings.
[06:18:18] <Gman> that's not too bad - if they ever need to parallel install libraries, it's pretty standard
[06:18:33] <steleman> so i guess i cant blog and look at pictures at the same time.
[06:19:02] <Gman> zones man, zones!
[06:19:04] * Gman runs
[06:19:21] <steleman> no zones. killing PHP is the solution.
[06:19:28] <steleman> It Must Die. Now.
[06:19:57] <SunTzuTech> Spawn of Satan kind of stuff, eh steleman?
[06:19:59] <e^ipi> too bad it got so popular
[06:20:11] <steleman> PHP is Satan itself :-)
[06:20:26] <SunTzuTech> I think I'll have to put that in my sig
[06:20:43] <steleman> Gman -- there are no libraries -- this is just php scripts.
[06:20:49] <steleman> :-)
[06:21:46] <steleman> </END_OF_RANT>
[06:21:49] <Gman> :)
[06:21:58] <e^ipi> you could use J2EE
[06:22:03] <steleman> we are now returning to our regularly scheduled programming
[06:22:22] <e^ipi> which is like PHP, except cleaner, and it chews through ram like crazy
[06:22:35] <steleman> at least J2EE works.
[06:22:56] <jbk> e^ipi: though isn't that a big of swatting a fly with an aircraft carrier?
[06:23:26] <e^ipi> perhaps
[06:23:33] <jbk> err bit
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[06:23:39] * jbk also can't type tonight :)
[06:23:52] <Gman> hrm, the jive archives seem screwed right across the board
[06:23:54] <e^ipi> but does php support database connection pooling in an easy way yet?
[06:23:59] <steleman> maybe this is what virtualization is all about: being able to run WordPress and PhotoOrganizer at the same time
[06:24:11] <steleman> e^pi: no. no connection pooling.
[06:24:18] <Gman> steleman, don't worry about wordpress, they don't want to run solaris anyway!
[06:24:19] * Gman runs
[06:24:25] <steleman> connect(); do_work(); disconnect();
[06:24:32] <steleman> lather, rinse, repeat as necessary.
[06:24:51] <steleman> Gman: by itself it sort of runs
[06:25:00] <e^ipi> what a fantastic way to waste resources
[06:25:15] <e^ipi> slow... ass... database... no, just PHP working like normal
[06:25:24] <Vratha> e^ipi: just create a singleton connections to your databases
[06:25:35] <jbk> heh.. i don't get the impression that large, scalable architectures were ever the design point of php
[06:25:39] <Vratha> s/a s/s/
[06:25:45] <jbk> even if people are trying to make it work that way
[06:26:00] <Vratha> the flyweight pattern would be good to keep track of all your connections
[06:26:01] <steleman> the design point of php was for all the 12 year olds to have a project at freshmeat.net
[06:26:14] <e^ipi> and if you want to do retarded-easy design, you can always just use jsp
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[06:26:24] <e^ipi> it's like php, but you can do things like connection pool
[06:26:27] <jbk> of course
[06:26:48] <Vratha> who here is using PHP and wanting connection pooling?  i thought it was you e^ipi
[06:26:52] <jbk> for a long time, my company wrote and used their own internally developed connection pool classes (for java)
[06:27:04] <jbk> they were probably better off going without, it was so bad :)
[06:27:45] <Vratha> did they use the flyweight pattern?
[06:28:00] <jbk> if it at least would have tried to reconnect when a connection died
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[06:28:12] <Vratha> heh, word
[06:28:17] <jbk> i'm not sure, just knew it was _always_ causing problems before they finally ditched it
[06:28:18] <Vratha> that'd be freakin' easy to implement
[06:28:36] <Vratha> i implemented connection pooling in one of my C# apps recently... it's crap easy to do
[06:28:40] <Vratha> they must have just sucked :)
[06:29:37] <jbk> i would not dispute that statement
[06:30:24] * steleman has an evil plan
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[06:30:50] <steleman> i think i will send a few PHP code samples to Joerg.
[06:30:51] <Vratha> jbk: hehehe
[06:31:02] <steleman> with author's email addresses
[06:31:02] <Vratha> steleman: Joerg?  what's his last name?
[06:31:17] <steleman> he doesn't need a last name.
[06:31:18] <e^ipi> keep in mind that i'm not a webapp developer, but it seems to me that php is the BASIC of web programming
[06:31:21] <steleman> He is Joerg.
[06:31:22] <e^ipi> as in, "don't use it ever"
[06:31:27] <e^ipi> Vratha: schilling
[06:31:32] <Vratha> oh ko
[06:31:40] <Vratha> i didn't know if it was the same Joerg as on the DFly BSD project
[06:31:45] <jbk> Vratha: ask him about gnu tar sometime :)
[06:31:52] <steleman> i would guess not the same person.
[06:31:54] * jbk runs
[06:32:12] <Vratha> jbk: hehe, i guess he hates it?
[06:32:32] <e^ipi> aww, i don't get to vote on the OGB constitution
[06:32:34] <e^ipi> :(
[06:32:43] <Vratha> why not?
[06:32:48] <jbk> for valid reasons, but he has issues with it
[06:33:03] <e^ipi> Vratha: i'm not on The List
[06:33:42] <Vratha> ah, ok :)
[06:34:49] <steleman> where is The List ?
[06:35:47] <e^ipi> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/cab-discuss/2007-January/000708.html
[06:35:58] <steleman> oh
[06:36:03] <e^ipi> you're on it
[06:36:06] <steleman> i am ?
[06:36:09] <e^ipi> yep
[06:36:13] <steleman> since when ?
[06:36:20] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[06:37:20] <Gman> the strange thing is that the voting list is based on the communities in opensolaris, not the projects
[06:37:27] <Gman> yet, the projects are probably generating more traffic
[06:37:39] <Gman> [not strange per se, perhaps 'interesting']
[06:38:06] <e^ipi> didn't you hear IBM a while back? there *is no* opensolaris community
[06:38:10] <steleman> i prefer the "opressed minority" role. then i can complain.
[06:38:23] <SunTzuTech> steleman: ugh. had to give gmake a LD_LIBRARY_PATH cause uic wasn't built with a valid LD path during compile time....
[06:38:44] <steleman> SunTzu: did you set your LD_RUN_PATH /
[06:38:45] <steleman> ?
[06:38:51] <e^ipi> steleman: no, that's me... i'm like a non property owner in the beginning of democracy v2.0
[06:38:54] <e^ipi> no property, no vote
[06:39:01] <e^ipi> mostly that was just to keep the black man down
[06:39:12] <Gman> e^ipi, heh
[06:39:41] <steleman> although qmake.conf should set LD_RUN_PATH
[06:39:47] <SunTzuTech> steleman: wouldn't have made any difference. the libray uic wanted was in the local lib (to the source) path
[06:39:52] <Gman> i actually think membership should have been open to everyone
[06:39:54] <e^ipi> actually i think democracy v1.0 was like that too ( the greeks)
[06:40:07] <steleman> SunTzu: hold on lemme check my build
[06:40:08] <Gman> though specific community/project decisions could only be made by contributors/core contributors
[06:40:12] <e^ipi> but anyways, point being i'm not on the list
[06:40:16] * Gman needs to write a blog about that sometime
[06:40:26] <e^ipi> so, sux for me
[06:40:40] <steleman> [steleman at redneck][/opt/qt-4 dot 2.2-32/bin][01/25/2007 0:30:26][771]>> elfdump uic | egrep RPATH
[06:40:40] <steleman>       [17]  RPATH            0x2ad45           /opt/qt-4.4.2-32/lib:/usr/gnu/lib:/usr/gnu/pgsql815/lib:/usr/gnu/mysql5/lib/mysql:/usr/gnu/mysql5/lib:/usr/gnu/sqlite3/lib:/usr/gnu/krb5/lib:/usr/X11/lib:/usr/lib/X11:/usr/openwin/lib:/usr/sfw/lib:/usr/ccs/lib:/usr/lib
[06:40:40] <SunTzuTech> you mean like kde?
[06:41:01] <SunTzuTech> is your source path in there?
[06:41:08] <steleman> yah it is
[06:41:13] <Vratha> ha!  you have a redneck compuer
[06:41:14] <Vratha> computer*
[06:41:31] <steleman> it is a redneck computer. it has blue and purple neon lights.
[06:41:34] <e^ipi> Vratha: it's got a broken car on the lawn?
[06:41:40] <Vratha> steleman: haha
[06:41:49] <Vratha> i hate how all these new cases are "pimped out"
[06:41:56] <Vratha> i mean i actually have to search for good cases now
[06:42:05] <e^ipi> i kinna like sun's new cases
[06:42:08] <steleman> this one was on purpose. built it myself
[06:42:13] <Vratha> e^ipi: hey!  don't talk about broken cars like they're bad!  my dad has some!
[06:42:18] <e^ipi> it's like a g5 powermac with a sun logo glued to it
[06:42:28] <Vratha> hehehe
[06:42:43] <SunTzuTech> steleman: where is your source path in the RPATH?
[06:43:01] <steleman>  /opt/qt-4.2.2-32
[06:43:40] <e^ipi> i also happen to like the cases for the g5 powermac
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[06:44:10] <SunTzuTech> steleman: oh.   hmmm.
[06:44:47] <steleman> SunTzu: QT's build system is weird. it builds "in-place". if you want to install it somewhere else then you have to set your LD_RUN_PATH to the destination lib directory
[06:46:09] <SunTzuTech> ah.  ok.  weird though.
[06:47:54] <e^ipi> trolltech really went over & above for Qt4
[06:47:57] <e^ipi> it's fantastic
[06:48:01] <steleman> QT4 is really nice
[06:48:12] <SunTzuTech> Should I worry about a message like "ld: warning: file /usr/X11/lib/libGLU.so: section .SUNW_ldynsym has invalid type 0x6fffff3"
[06:48:31] <steleman> SunTzu: that doesnt' sound good
[06:49:05] <steleman> you using GNU ld ?
[06:49:56] <SunTzuTech> hmm. yeah, I think my path is configured as such. Probably need to put /usr/ccs/bin first
[06:50:05] <Vratha> yeah
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[06:50:32] <Vratha> does solaris come with parallel APIs to take advantage of niagra and multicore CPUs?
[06:51:06] <jmcp> Vratha: parallel ... ie HPC-style?
[06:51:26] <Vratha> yeah, to make spread the workload
[06:51:34] <Vratha> s/make/
[06:51:39] <jmcp> well, the kernel does that for you by default
[06:51:54] <Vratha> eh, kernels don't always make the best decisions by any means
[06:52:05] <jmcp> yes I know
[06:52:21] <Vratha> so it'd be cool if they have an API for parallelizing work :)
[06:52:28] <jmcp> have you heard of OpenMPI?
[06:52:37] <jmcp> I believe it's one of those standards thingies that Sun's keen on
[06:52:50] <Vratha> ah, cool.. does that mean Sun optimizes it?
[06:52:54] <jmcp> nfi
[06:52:58] <Vratha> ok
[06:53:05] <jmcp> but I'm sure there's a mention of it on sun.com/bigadmin or developers.sun.com
[06:53:17] <Vratha> apple is putting some slick parallel APIs in the new leopard release
[06:53:46] <steleman> brb 10 minutes need smokes
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[06:57:04] <e^ipi> about bloody time
[06:57:17] <Vratha> what
[06:57:47] <e^ipi> they've only been selling SMP machines for 3 OS releases, about time they put in some paralellization functions'
[06:57:54] <e^ipi> s/functions/syscalls
[06:58:04] <Vratha> they already have a parallel API
[06:58:11] <Vratha> but the new generation is much nicer
[06:58:24] <e^ipi> and it'll be dtrace-ariffic
[06:58:30] <jmcp> and more efficient in so many ways
[06:58:39] <Vratha> yeah, OS X leopard is gonna be sweetness
[06:58:52] <jmcp> Vratha: http://www.open-mpi.org, incidentally
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[06:59:28] <Vratha> jmcp: thanks :)  i'll check it out and see what algorithm they use, b/c the one apple is putting into leopard is damn nice
[06:59:37] <Vratha> and simple actually
[07:01:18] <Vratha> looks like sun supports OpenMP and MPICH and some other stuff: http://developers.sun.com/sunstudio/cmt.html
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[07:10:04] <steleman> back
[07:11:15] <jmcp> steleman: that habit will kill ya one day.....
[07:11:28] <steleman> jmcp: yeah but i only live once :-)
[07:11:35] <e^ipi> or you can get hit by a bus tomorrow
[07:11:36] <jmcp> heh
[07:11:43] <jmcp> e^ipi: why wait until tomorrow?
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[07:12:01] <e^ipi> or you could work in a building... when one day you go out for a smoke
[07:12:12] <e^ipi> while you're out, the building gets hit by a terrorist airplane
[07:12:14] <e^ipi> ...
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[07:12:20] <e^ipi> smoking could _save_ your life
[07:12:27] <e^ipi> *nod*
[07:13:06] <SunTzuTech> a beef with management saved my friend and his team of SA's
[07:15:48] * e^ipi rereads
[07:15:49] <e^ipi> hmm...
[07:15:56] <e^ipi> sorry, didn't mean to come off as insensitive
[07:15:58] <e^ipi> :(
[07:16:09] <SunTzuTech> didn't take it as such
[07:16:31] <steleman> nah me neither. howard stern was making jokes about it one week after.
[07:17:06] * jmcp heads off to pick up his wife
[07:17:10] <SunTzuTech> I heard stern call up AirFlorida and ask for a ticket to the 14th street bridge back in 82
[07:17:46] <steleman> SunTzu: a week after 9/11 he said he is flying nonstop from JFK to LAX but he has a stopover at the WTC
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[07:18:26] <SunTzuTech> unreal.  the man learned nothing from the myriads of suspensious he's gotten over the years
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[07:23:20] <wamty> just wondering any database tool that you are aware for generating test data for an open source db
[07:24:29] <e^ipi> http://www.benjaminkeen.com/software/data_generator/
[07:24:30] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[07:24:55] <wamty> ?
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[07:29:11] <wamty> ever used it?
[07:29:15] <wamty> is it good?
[07:30:10] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[07:30:19] <e^ipi> i don't work with databases
[07:30:33] <e^ipi> i just have that one in my bookmarks for some reason
[07:32:26] <Vratha> aww, my 8 GB virtual HDD for XP is almost full :(
[07:34:23] <wamty> oh ok
[07:34:30] <wamty> thanks for the link :)
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[07:44:41] <CapRiCoRN^80> hi ! i m building hdf5-1.8.0-alpha5 and configure works fine but when i make it gave me errors
[07:44:42] <dwc-> are you testing the database, or testing the app that gets information from the database
[07:45:28] <CapRiCoRN^80> .. /usr/include/sys/siginfo.h:259: error: parse error before "ctid_t"
[07:45:30] <CapRiCoRN^80> .. /usr/include/sys/siginfo.h:292: error: parse error before '}' token
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[07:48:54] <CapRiCoRN^80> .
[07:49:41] <e^ipi> that's a pretty basic error
[07:50:10] <CapRiCoRN^80> i m not getting it
[07:50:21] <CapRiCoRN^80> plz help
[07:51:53] <e^ipi> well, obviously something's wrong with that header file
[07:52:15] <e^ipi> my guess somewhere between line 258 and 293
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[07:54:52] <e^ipi> oh, wait
[07:55:00] <e^ipi> that's a header in solaris, not one of yours
[07:55:31] <e^ipi> (thought it was ../usr/blahblah )
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[07:56:21] <CapRiCoRN^80> i m not expert so how i can deal with it ?
[07:56:24] <CapRiCoRN^80> need help for that
[07:56:40] <e^ipi> which compiler are you using
[07:57:55] <CapRiCoRN^80> gcc
[07:58:03] <e^ipi> try using studio
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[08:00:31] <CapRiCoRN^80> its not installed
[08:00:31] <CapRiCoRN^80> i guess
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[08:01:25] <EdLin> CapRiCoRN^80, what does cc -V say?
[08:02:15] <CapRiCoRN^80> .. /usr/ucb/cc:  language optional software package not installed
[08:02:29] <EdLin> CapRiCoRN^80, you don't have it then.
[08:03:13] <CapRiCoRN^80> wat next ?
[08:03:40] <dwc-> 258 ends the definition of a union
[08:03:57] <dwc->                         } __pdata;
[08:04:14] <EdLin> CapRiCoRN^80, you might have it on your media, if not, it's a free download.
[08:04:34] <CapRiCoRN^80> http://developers.sun.com/sunstudio/downloads/index.jsp
[08:04:41] <CapRiCoRN^80> this Sun studio 11 ?
[08:04:43] <EdLin> (SXCR has it on media)
[08:05:24] <EdLin> CapRiCoRN^80, yeah, that looks like it.
[08:05:58] <CapRiCoRN^80> k
[08:06:06] <CapRiCoRN^80> after building it . i hope i will not get this problem
[08:06:36] <dwc-> what version of solaris are you running?
[08:07:23] <dwc-> one solution seems to suggest
[08:07:26] <dwc-> cd /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.10/3.3.2/install-tools
[08:07:26] <dwc-> ./mkheaders
[08:07:49] <dwc-> another one suggests adding #include <sys/types.h> before signal.h
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[08:12:46] <EdLin> dwc-, thanks, messages like that make it worth lurking here.
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[08:45:53] <tsoome> damit, iscsitgtd will still crash in b55a:(
[08:47:06] <tsoome> is anyone using snv as iscsi target server?
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[08:49:22] <Griffous> well I don't want to now!
[08:51:08] <tsoome> :D
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[09:30:08] <lplatypus> heh a web page i'm on has a flash advertisement for solaris which says it is "totally secure"
[09:32:39] <quasi> mmm, totally secure flash
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[09:36:26] <lplatypus> i love the ambiguity of English :-)  It reads "Solaris 10" ... "the most advanced OS on the planet" ... "is totally secure"
[09:37:16] <lplatypus> I like solaris and think it's pretty secure and all, but I think somebody in marketing was getting very excited and resorted to hyperbole :-)
[09:38:43] <Griffous> maybe just a wee bit ;)
[09:39:02] <Griffous> go to apples website. It seems they too have the most advanced OS on the planet
[09:39:20] <tsoome> i'm pretty sure microsoft got it as well
[09:39:26] <lplatypus> ah now zfs on mac makes sense
[09:39:35] <tsoome> and linux vendors etc .....
[09:40:49] <lplatypus> these guys seem to be a bit more restrained: http://os4.hyperion-entertainment.biz/
[09:41:17] <tsoome> has anyone managed to use zfs volume and shareiscsi ?
[09:42:46] * tsoome had a nice idea to test it but it seems one world most advanced operating system is not that advanced afterall....
[09:43:18] <cmihai> You mean MacOS? :)
[09:43:44] <tsoome> no SunOS jes 5.11 snv_55b sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-4
[09:43:47] <tsoome> :P
[09:44:11] <quasi> so maybe the apple should say "we've included features lifted from the most advanced os on the planet"
[09:44:12] <tsoome> iscsi target daemon will just produce a core....
[09:44:43] <quasi> (or maybe they're just talking about another planet ;)
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[09:44:49] <tsoome> or maybe sun should learn from apple how to create a usable desktop solutions:P
[09:44:55] <cmihai> quasi: actually, they are saying "Advanceing the world's most advanced operating system."
[09:44:56] <lplatypus> I see that benr blogged about doing it last month with b54
[09:45:00] <cmihai> http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/index.html
[09:45:09] <tsoome> yes, I read it too
[09:45:19] <tsoome> but I'm unable to reproduce
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[09:45:47] <cmihai> tsoome: infertility? :)
[09:45:59] <tsoome> :D
[09:46:21] <tsoome> thats no problem for me:P
[09:47:22] <tsoome> I tryed with b54, and now I did upgrade to 55b and still no luck
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[09:47:52] <tsoome> so it seems I have to create some bugreport....
[09:51:26] <lplatypus> have you tried the slow way, creating a zvol and then using iscsitadm to share it over iscsi?
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[09:54:45] <tsoome> good point
[09:54:50] <tsoome> I'll try
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[10:06:58] <tsoome> okay, the base dir was not set
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[10:12:17] <lplatypus> still it shouldn't dump core, surely that's worthy of a bug report
[10:13:58] <lasseoe> agree
[10:14:31] <tsoome> and zfs set shareiscsi=on should set base dir ....
[10:14:36] <tsoome> if not set...
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[10:18:26] <lasseoe> hm.. I guess, but to what?  /iscsi ?
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[10:18:57] <FireflyST> anyone around?
[10:18:58] <quasi> yay, finally - http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/sysadmin_guide.pdf - Linux to Solaris Administrators Guide
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[10:19:21] <FireflyST> can someone see if they can get to http://www.youtube.com?
[10:19:36] <lasseoe> quasi: didn't know you need that :)
[10:19:40] <lasseoe> needed
[10:19:45] <lplatypus> FireflyST: I can
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[10:19:59] <FireflyST> what IP?
[10:20:18] <quasi> lasseoe: might be useful in starting an opensolaris usergroup
[10:20:30] <lasseoe> quasi: true
[10:20:57] <lasseoe> quasi: where is it linked from on sun.com ?
[10:21:09] <quasi> lasseoe: and surely useful to drop on the hit-n-run linux fanboys that turn up here
[10:21:16] <quasi> lasseoe: http://blogs.sun.com/staso/entry/guides_for_better_web_security
[10:21:42] <lplatypus> FireflyST: I seem to be connected to 208.65.153.242
[10:21:51] <Berny_> *yawn* morning folks
[10:22:06] <lplatypus> evening Berny_
[10:23:01] <FireflyST> samn
[10:23:06] <FireflyST> damn I mean
[10:23:08] <FireflyST> ugh
[10:23:13] <FireflyST> I'm just gonna go to bed
[10:23:24] <FireflyST> thanks for helping me platypus
[10:23:31] * Berny_ just removed the bed from under his back
[10:23:46] * FireflyST is zzzz
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[10:28:52] <raph_ael> hello
[10:29:35] <lplatypus> nice doc quasi
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[10:30:03] <lplatypus> I see that it says on page 4 that solaris is not mature :-)
[10:30:44] <lplatypus> well it says "As Solaris matures..."
[10:36:49] <razrX> the font used in the pdf looks terrible, surely this is not an official Sun pdf ;)
[10:37:24] <lasseoe> razrX: the whole Treklogic logo on the first page sort of suggests it's not written by Sun
[10:37:37] <razrX> lasseoe: i know, just messing around ;)
[10:37:40] <lasseoe> :-)
[10:38:01] <lasseoe> I'm surprised Sun hasn't taken the initiative to write this guide
[10:38:02] <razrX> i mean, i'm reading the pdf on a mac, which IMHO has the best fonts around
[10:38:09] <razrX> and even on the mac it looks terrible ;)
[10:38:11] <lasseoe> yeah
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[10:38:56] <razrX> but the initiative should be applauded
[10:39:15] <razrX> so here goes *clap clap clap*
[10:39:18] <lasseoe> Absolutely.
[10:40:03] <razrX> geez, what's all new in sxcr 55b? the iso is almost 1g larger than the 54 build
[10:40:23] <razrX> the iso's from build to build used to increase by about 100m or so
[10:40:31] <lplatypus> it looks like the pdf is created by TeX, which I believe uses bitmap fonts
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[10:40:37] <razrX> is gnome 2.17 at fault ?
[10:40:59] <lasseoe> maybe it comes with porn now
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[10:41:13] <razrX> i'm running 55b already since couple of days
[10:41:36] <Odin-LAP> lplatypus: It can be configured to generate proper PDFs... :p
[10:41:52] <razrX> lasseoe: LMAO
[10:43:44] <cmihai> Guess I should boot into 55b too..
[10:44:02] <razrX> ran LU again also cmihai ?
[10:44:43] <cmihai> Yeah
[10:44:51] * razrX is happily running 55b with enlightenment dr16 instead of gnome
[10:45:05] <cmihai> Ran it like a few days ago, when it came out
[10:45:34] <razrX> i'd very much like to see dr17 enlightenment packages (so would lots of other peeps too)
[10:46:01] <Triskelios> 55b ships with gnome 2.16 still afaik, 2.17 is in the jds 57 releases
[10:46:04] <razrX> i've built the monster once myself but it was pretty tedious
[10:46:23] <razrX> Triskelios: haven't even looked at gnome since my enlightenment install
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[10:47:08] <razrX> i'm attending the 2nd NLOSUG meeting tonite so i'll ask around if someone knows why the iso is about 1g larger than previous build
[10:47:34] <lplatypus> is that the one with sun studio in it?
[10:47:35] <razrX> it really cought my eye once the concat was finished
[10:47:50] <razrX> *caught even
[10:48:01] <lplatypus> coughing an eye sounds painful
[10:48:01] <Triskelios> oh, I bet it's JDS and the other stuff
[10:48:03] <Triskelios> err
[10:48:12] <Triskelios> s/JDS/Studio 11/
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[10:48:32] <Triskelios> the default installation option is now "Developer Express"
[10:48:33] <quasi> lplatypus: studio 11 is no where near 1G
[10:48:33] <razrX> Triskelios: i don't see /opt/SUNWspro or something on this 55b
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[10:48:44] <razrX> so that's prolly not it
[10:49:13] <quasi> maybe the companion cd has been integrated?
[10:49:22] <Triskelios> quasi: no
[10:49:42] <Triskelios> razrX: I have it here.. although I had it installed previously as well
[10:50:03] <razrX> a collegue of mine mentions there is a developer option added to Grub's boot menu
[10:50:06] <Triskelios> but /usr/share/doc/soldevex/html/developer_guide.html specifically mentions it
[10:50:12] <razrX> maybe that's the culprit
[10:50:13] <Triskelios> razrX: in the ISO, yes
[10:50:22] <Triskelios> that is also the default afaik
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[10:50:59] <Triskelios> claims to also have netbeans
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[10:54:16] <Triskelios> I also don't really understand why it comes with soffice8 now, but okay
[10:54:35] <razrX> sxcr 54 also had soffice8 already
[10:54:46] <Triskelios> ah
[10:54:49] <Triskelios> I skipped that one
[10:55:38] <razrX> Triskelios: after luupgrade and luactivate finished on my box, i did a shutdown of the box and walked away from it
[10:55:55] <razrX> i never saw the new developer option in Grub's boot menu
[10:56:20] <razrX> if you boot into the developer option, the compiler bits are in
[10:56:57] <razrX> there appears some reference to it in /path/to/installmedia/DeveloperTools/install_devtools.sh
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[10:57:51] <razrX> afk for a few minutes
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[11:03:03] <cmihai> Well, that sucked.
[11:03:05] <cmihai> Another botched LU
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[11:03:32] <cmihai> JDS and CDE don't work in the new env
[11:04:03] <cmihai> SXCR 54 to 55b, LU ;\
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[11:14:55] <tsoome2> 54 to 55b with lu, and gnome seems to be just ok. sparc.
[11:15:42] <razrX> back.
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[11:15:56] <razrX> cmihai: your lu from 54 to 55b is borked?
[11:16:02] <tsoome2> zfs + iscsi:
[11:16:03] <tsoome2> Filesystem             Size   Used  Available Capacity  Mounted on
[11:16:03] <tsoome2> tank                   147T    24K       147T     1%    /tank
[11:16:11] <cmihai> Yeah, it is.
[11:16:26] <cmihai> As in, everything worked fine, but JDS doesn't show in dtlogin, and CDE doesn't login.
[11:16:27] <razrX> hmm, didn't have any difficulties on my box
[11:16:58] <razrX> hmm, let me log out of enlightenment to see if it shows up in mine
[11:17:23] <cmihai> Well, figured something must've went wrong, so I deleted the env, and doing a lucreate / luupgrade from iso again.
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[11:18:49] <razrX> options, session shows: CDE, Gnome 2.16 for opensol, englightenment dr16 and the familiar user's last desktop and failsafe
[11:19:04] <cmihai> Right, mine only shows CDE and that doesn't work. Odd.
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[11:19:28] <razrX> was it always named like that (gnome 2.16 for opensol) instead of jds ?
[11:19:33] <razrX> can't imagine and remember
[11:19:43] <cmihai> I think it was "JDS"
[11:19:48] <razrX> ditto
[11:19:53] <cmihai> And it should be... 2.18+ ?
[11:19:58] <cmihai> Erm.. or 2.16.1 ?
[11:20:16] * razrX is actually loading up gnome right now
[11:20:21] <razrX> yugh
[11:20:26] <cmihai> Heh
[11:20:52] <razrX> how do i find out from withing gnome which version i'm running?
[11:21:11] <razrX> within even
[11:21:12] <cmihai> Help - about should say something. But since there's tons of packages..
[11:21:22] <cmihai> pkginfo is a better option I guess.
[11:21:41] <razrX> sure, but actually was looking for the gnome way
[11:22:26] <razrX> well, about from the 'show desktop' thingy shows 2.16.1
[11:22:38] <cmihai> I think that
[11:22:41] <cmihai> is fine.
[11:22:41] <razrX> i know enuff, back to enlightenment
[11:22:46] <cmihai> Heh
[11:22:51] <cmihai> E16?
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[11:23:02] <razrX> yah, but want e17 again
[11:23:16] <razrX> e17 is a bitch to build yourself though
[11:23:27] <razrX> otherwise i'd prolly be running it already again
[11:24:53] <jteo> hello *
[11:25:28] <cmihai> hello ?
[11:25:56] <jteo> wtf is duckhorn.
[11:26:09] <cmihai> I dunno, WTF _is_ duckhorn?
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[11:27:16] <lplatypus> google says it's a winery
[11:27:33] <cmihai> A horn that goes "quack"?
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[11:28:22] <quasi> I think duckhorn is zone resource control - Cpu / memory caps
[11:28:23] <Berny_> like the ones you use for duck hunting? :-)
[11:30:14] <jteo> quasi: sounds correct. ;)
[11:31:21] <lplatypus> duckhorn announcement: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=18813
[11:31:38] <jteo> lplatypus: thank you.
[11:31:40] <cmihai> Oh, just got into 55
[11:31:55] <cmihai> ttp://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=18813
[11:32:01] <cmihai> Bloody paste
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[11:49:12] <jteo> http://www.noodlesoft.com/blog/2007/01/23/the-sun-also-sets/
[11:49:16] <jteo> intriguing.
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[11:59:06] <PerterB> yeah... also some of the referenced articles. I'd seen the "In Which I Think About Java Again..." one, but http://talblog.info/archives/2007/01/sundown.html is insightful
[12:00:06] <jteo> yup that is good too.
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[12:06:13] <Peanut> If I were to buy a low-end U20m2, could I just upgrade the CPU myself with a faster Opteron bought retail?
[12:07:20] <trygvis> I would assume so
[12:08:11] * Peanut is seriously considering getting the smallest config, then slapping some extra mem etc. in there.
[12:08:39] <quasi> Peanut: it is tempting to do it that way
[12:09:21] <trygvis> I was wondering about the same thing. I wonder if it would be possible to get the machine without cpu and memory
[12:09:31] <Peanut> Especially given that the larger configs come with a grahipcs card I won't really need.
[12:09:48] <Peanut> trygvis: no, Sun still has a way to go before you can order like from Dell.
[12:10:11] <quasi> Peanut: the cpu is listed as [F] = Field Replaceable Unit (FRU)
[12:10:24] <quasi> (not [C] = Customer Replaceable Unit (CRU) )
[12:10:43] <jteo> it just an OEM motherboard.
[12:10:52] <jteo> it's probably entirely doable.
[12:10:57] <quasi> yeah, I'm sure the swap is easy to do
[12:11:34] <quasi> my only problem with the u20 is that there's only room for 2 disks
[12:11:58] <jteo> this is why ppl start wishing for a cheap sata JBOD.
[12:13:07] <quasi> yeah, I've been having trouble finding anyone selling external sata jbods around here
[12:14:01] <quasi> http://www.datoptic.com/cgi-bin/web.cgi?product=qBOX-S&detail=yes if I was in .us
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[12:29:24] <ofu> quasi: this box uses 4 esata-cables, one for each disk?
[12:29:53] <ofu> ok, it is cheap enough for home use, but 4 cables?
[12:32:38] <jteo> clarification: does zfs panic even if there are multiple top-level vdevs, when a write fails? (assuming there is redundancy)
[12:32:48] <quasi> ofu: ah, http://www.datoptic.com/cgi-bin/web.cgi?product=qBOX-M&detail=yes is the one then
[12:34:17] <ofu> quasi: cool... but infiniband is pretty expensive, i suppose
[12:34:42] <ofu> sorry
[12:34:54] <ofu> this is infiniband/multilane sata-connector
[12:34:57] <ofu> this is perfect
[12:35:10] <quasi> yeah, it is pretty cool
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[12:37:01] <quasi> add http://www.datoptic.com/cgi-bin/web.cgi?product=mSATA_H&detail=yes and you should be able to use whichever controller you want
[12:39:11] <ofu> yes, just found that... cool
[12:39:30] <ofu> where can i order this?
[12:39:50] <sniffy> http://www.datoptic.com/reseller.html ?
[12:41:18] <quasi> ofu: and http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/driverlist.html suggests support for the Silicon Image SiI 3124 based controllers as well
[12:42:34] <quasi> ofu: looks slightly difficult in .eu unfortunately - but I've been told they're willing to sell direct
[12:42:39] <cmihai> Got some nice eSATA / USB 2.0 / Firewire SATA/ATA disk enclosures pretty cheap
[12:42:56] <cmihai> Nexstar 3, nice stuff http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1769
[12:43:16] <cmihai> You can hook up 4 of those with say 500GB disks and you're set
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[12:44:36] <cmihai>  NST-360SU-BK comes with eSATA.
[12:44:49] <quasi> cmihai: I'd take the datoptic 4disk chassis to avoid the hassle of 4 boxes, 4 psu, 4 cables
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[12:45:28] <cmihai> Yeah, that's pretty nice also.
[12:45:48] <ofu> i am using http://www.supermicro.com/products/accessories/mobilerack/CSE-M35T-1.cfm at home, 150E or so
[12:46:41] <cmihai> Oh, nice.
[12:47:16] <quasi> ofu: but that's internal, right?
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[13:08:18] <ofu> quasi: yes, that is internal
[13:16:54] * LeftWing wants a SATA Multipack.
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[13:25:22] <ofu> is there some hardware that does sata multiplexing?
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[13:26:12] <PerterB> yeah, some sata port multipliers, I think they're called
[13:26:23] <PerterB> some enclosures have them built in
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[13:32:28] <sickness> infiniband?
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[13:38:45] <PerterB> pardon?
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[13:49:01] <jteo> ah finally a real answer to the mysterious "i pull a disk from the zpool (of mirrors) on sparc box, and box panics."
[13:49:20] <sickness> jteo: I'm just curious to hear it :)
[13:49:27] <boyd> The one where the panic pointed at SVM?
[13:49:45] <jteo> i'm not sure whether that is related.
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[13:50:05] <jteo> but at least 3 folks have experienced the same issue, and it appears Sun Support has a preliminary patch
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[13:50:31] <Tpenta> got a bugid?
[13:50:40] <jteo> "opened a support-case with Sun about this, and after a while I received
[13:50:40] <jteo> a test-patch (IDR125057-01) which so far seems to have solved all my
[13:50:40] <jteo> problems with this issue. "
[13:50:45] <jteo> that's all i've got.
[13:50:46] <jteo> :(
[13:50:53] <Tpenta> that's enough for me
[13:51:40] <jteo> i just hope you don't give us a bug id that shows up in b.o.o. as "see comments"
[13:52:01] * Tpenta hopes so too, which is why I'm looking before I give you the id
[13:52:08] <boyd> Hehe
[13:52:44] * boyd notes that bc has been active on zfs-discuss. Team Dtrace must be a little less busy than they were
[13:52:46] <jteo> if anyone else from the BSDs or Linux distros found out how hilarious b.o.o. was, they would pity us.
[13:52:50] <boyd> s/bc/bmc
[13:53:03] * boyd nods @ jteo
[13:53:34] <Tpenta> 6456939 sd_send_scsi_SYNCHRONIZE_CACHE_biodone() can issue TUR which calls biowait()and deadlock/hangs host
[13:53:34] <Tpenta> and the fix was delivered into snv_48
[13:54:01] <Tpenta> but that's a deadlock/hang, not a panic
[13:54:39] <jteo> i apologise for my sloppy phrasing.
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[13:54:50] <jteo> but least my guess was correct at the root cause.
[13:54:52] <PerterB> pardon?
[13:54:53] <PerterB> oops, sorry
[13:54:55] <Tpenta> anyway, that was fixed in b48
[13:55:06] <jteo> them folks stuck at U3.
[13:55:48] <Tpenta> I suspect it will be in ku-36, but let me check
[13:55:59] <Tpenta> hmmm looks like not been putback into s10 yet
[13:56:12] <jteo> everything fits then.
[13:56:25] * Tpenta checks to see if there is a patch RTI
[13:56:53] <staceym> Whom should one address OpenSolaris website issues to: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/category.jspa?categoryID=8 gives me:
[13:56:54] <staceym>  An error in the system has occurred. Please contact the system administrator if the problem persists.
[13:56:54] <staceym> type: java.lang.NullPointerException
[13:56:54] <staceym> java.lang.NullPointerException
[13:57:19] <staceym> ?
[14:00:44] <Tpenta> hmmmm, if you are a customer waiting for a patch on that (ie open call), I'd be asking for that fix to go back into the s10-patch gate. Otherwise, you'll be waiting for s10u4
[14:01:46] <jteo> Tpenta: i'm not the customer. Though some of them would probably want it to go back into the s10-patch gate.
[14:02:02] <Tpenta> I'll drop the owner a note
[14:03:55] <jteo> Tpenta: thanks.
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[14:14:14] <Tpenta> staceym: try stevel at sun dot com or Derek.Cicero at sun dot com
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[14:25:53] <Tpenta> 'ello Odin
[14:27:49] <nachox> morning
[14:33:46] <staceym> Tpenta: Thanks.
[14:33:53] <Tpenta> np
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[14:35:33] <Peanut> Could anyone help me with a picture of the front of an X4200? You now need a sunsolve account to even look at high-res pictures of a server you want to buy.
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[14:35:58] <dlg> shouldnt the bits inside it be more of an issue when you want to buy a box?
[14:35:59] <Capricorn^800> e^ipi : u there
[14:36:08] <Doc> peanut: you want to buy one, or get support for one?
[14:36:17] <Peanut> dlg: sure, but at the moment I'm just drawing network-diagrams.
[14:36:37] <Capricorn^800> e^ipi advised me to install sun studio as i was getting some problem during hdf make
[14:36:50] <Doc> 'cos if you want to buy one, why are you looking on a support site?
[14:37:07] <Capricorn^800> .. /usr/include/sys/siginfo.h:259: error: parse error before "ctid_t"
[14:37:13] <Capricorn^800> .. /usr/include/sys/siginfo.h:292: error: parse error before '}' token
[14:37:34] <Peanut> Doc: cuz I'm used to clicking on the system handbook, which used to be much more open. But nevermind, I've just found photos.sun.com ;-)
[14:37:40] <Capricorn^800> i got these errors during make of hdf5-1.8.0-alpha5
[14:38:17] <Capricorn^800> need help
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[14:45:03] <zaurus> does UFS support "resizing" of partitions ? (as ext3)?
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[14:45:20] <twincest> you can increase the size (growfs)
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[14:47:39] <zaurus> thnks; and zfs ?
[14:47:50] <ofu> of course
[14:47:53] <ofu> just add disks
[14:48:24] <Capricorn^800> hello ?
[14:49:45] <quasi> Peanut: bigadmin has links to openoffice templates for most sun systems
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[14:56:29] <nachox> hmm, was the directory server 6 released already?
[14:56:42] <lasseoe> no
[14:57:41] <nachox> then that's why i cant read the manuals :)
[14:57:52] <lasseoe> yeah you need a password
[14:58:14] <lasseoe> DS 6.0 is quite nice
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[14:58:33] <nachox> i wouldnt know :(
[14:58:38] <lasseoe> easier to use, more flexible
[14:58:41] <quasi> did they change much?
[14:58:58] <nachox> when will it be available for the rest of us?
[14:59:15] <lasseoe> a reasonable amount - the way you create new databases is far more intuitiv
[14:59:30] <lasseoe> nachox: second half of January, that's the last I heard
[14:59:40] <lasseoe> it has more and better CLI tools :) yay!
[14:59:58] <nachox> we're in the seond half of jan, hehe
[15:00:07] <lasseoe> well spotted :)
[15:00:11] <quasi> nachox: but not out of it yet
[15:00:25] <lasseoe> it's also capable of running in a spare rootzone
[15:00:31] <nachox> for only 6 days
[15:00:49] <tsoome> spare rootzone?
[15:00:53] <quasi> sparse
[15:01:03] <nachox> is there any way i could get a pass to read the docs? :)
[15:01:04] <tsoome> ah ok
[15:02:08] <lasseoe> oh yes, sparse.. typo :)
[15:02:18] <lasseoe> nachox: you have to be a beta tester
[15:02:39] <lasseoe> but it's closed now
[15:03:37] <nachox> i see, then i guess i will have to wait.., that's too bad :(
[15:03:47] <lasseoe> yeah
[15:04:07] <lasseoe> It's been in beta a long time though.
[15:05:07] <Doc> what's been in beta for a long time?
[15:05:14] <nachox> teh new DS
[15:06:06] <Doc> hmm.. still a while to go until it's released...
[15:06:23] <lasseoe> :-(
[15:06:27] <Doc> been in beta since april.. wow
[15:07:36] <nachox> Doc: many months? :(
[15:08:25] <lasseoe> I heard a rumour a while ago that it'd be a few more months
[15:09:59] <Doc> pretty close to the truth
[15:10:16] <nachox> i0d settle with access to the documentation, i would love to read it since i'm planning a nis to ldap migration, i need to deal with some old aix boxes that use a weird schema
[15:10:38] <Doc> unfortunately it's a closed beta
[15:12:08] <staceym> Capricorn^800: Are you sure you didn't miss another error before the ones you posted here?
[15:12:17] <staceym> (I see they have gone already)
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[15:12:25] <nachox> the netscape directory server is all around, redhat uses it too :) i'd love to see how far appart sun's and redhat's implementation have gone
[15:16:54] <gallium> i would assume that they're not that far apart.. probably mainly the replication sections. opends will be re-written in java so we'll never see the ds-ee 6 source to be able to make a comparison.
[15:17:10] <Peanut> quasi: thanks for the hint, but I'm still stuck in Xfig ;)
[15:19:20] <quasi> Peanut: damn
[15:19:55] <quasi> they still might be liftable though
[15:21:03] <Peanut> 's ok, I'm done with the picture - now I'm off to show it to the people who have money.
[15:23:07] <quasi> as long as it gets you the money
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[15:23:29] <Peanut> As long as it gets me the shiny toys :-)
[15:23:30] <Peanut> bbl
[15:23:46] <darrenm> https://opends.dev.java.net/
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[15:26:31] <gallium> the core DS team (in france) are a really nice bunch of guys to work with.. i'm sure opends will do really well.
[15:27:20] <quasi> hmmm, http://adverlicio.us/sun_solaris_10_keys_to_the_server_room_640x480
[15:28:00] <nachox> opends has nothing to do with the other ds :)
[15:30:37] <darrenm> nachox: are you sure about that ?
[15:31:39] <nachox> darrenm: yes, it's in the faq
[15:31:44] <darrenm> okay thanks
[15:31:48] <dlg> haha
[15:31:50] <dlg> bollocks
[15:32:33] <cmihai> ttp://adverlicio.us/sun_solaris_10_keys_to_the_server_room_640x480
[15:32:42] <LeftWing> dlg: What's bollocks?
[15:32:43] <cmihai> Ficking hell, ficking Paste, ficking CDE
[15:32:49] <nachox> it was the first thing i checked, because i knew sun has an opensource ldap project, this one is completely written in java
[15:33:05] <cmihai> Every time your mouse button slips the damn thing startes pasteing crap
[15:33:34] <quasi> cmihai: you're on a roll today ;)
[15:34:02] <cmihai> Yeah :)
[15:34:30] <cmihai> I don't get it though.
[15:34:34] <cmihai> The Apache thing.
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[15:34:45] <cmihai> Sure, there's containers, but meh. That ad makes no sense :)
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[15:35:34] <LeftWing> It's the sort of thing that makes sense to managers.
[15:36:00] <cmihai> Yeah, I know the drill. Had a MS droid here 2 days ago
[15:36:01] <quasi> cmihai: take zones, add marketing and that's what you get ;)
[15:36:32] <lasseoe> heck.. it could have been a lot worse :)
[15:37:00] <cmihai> Yes, "Mister Hacker" could be involved.
[15:37:03] <jteo> i'm only irritated because i can't get a job pushing that stuff to customers.
[15:37:15] <jteo> (sour grapes and all)
[15:37:18] <cmihai> "Mister Hacker" was my MSDroid's fictitious character who b0rked all our servers.
[15:37:19] <quasi> well, using someone elses trademark/name in your advertising without approval might not be smart
[15:37:24] <lasseoe> jteo: with Sun you mean?
[15:37:35] <jteo> lasseoe: yes. long story.
[15:37:37] <jteo> etc etc yadda.
[15:38:13] <LeftWing> cmihai: It's better than Mister Microsoft Developer Evangelist who goes around telling folk how Microsoft just wanted to make Java better, and Sun forced them out.
[15:38:24] <cmihai> Hahaha :)
[15:38:25] <jteo> holy.
[15:38:26] <jteo> poor MS.
[15:38:29] <LeftWing> Big Cuddly Altruistic Microsoft.
[15:38:33] <cmihai> :)
[15:38:56] <cmihai> If by better you mean running only on Windows... I'll say a big bad No Thank You!
[15:39:05] <LeftWing> It's OK, though.  Because he went on to tell us how nobody uses Java anymore and Microsoft has instead made .NET really really great.
[15:39:12] <LeftWing> So we all felt safe.
[15:39:22] <darrenm> If Microsoft really wanted to make Java better then there was always a process for that, the problem was making Java "better" only for Windows!
[15:39:23] <cmihai> Oh noes, Java is dying!
[15:39:32] <LeftWing> cmihai: Yeah, dude, they don't even develop it anymore.
[15:39:59] <tsoome> they?
[15:40:04] <Stric> maybe one should learn this new-fangled thing "Java" some day
[15:40:25] <LeftWing> tsoome: I'm taking the piss. =P
[15:40:48] <quasi> Stric: I'm hoping it goes out of fashion before I get that desperate ;)
[15:40:56] <LeftWing> Pssh! :P
[15:41:27] <jteo> since the iPhone doesn't support it, obviously Java is DOA!
[15:41:55] <LeftWing> heh
[15:41:56] <cmihai> No Jaba on iPhone? The sky is falling!
[15:42:55] <LeftWing> Well unfortunately it's just another reason not to buy one I guess.
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[15:43:20] <LeftWing> Uhh... awesome.
[15:43:22] <AbeFroman> that's more of a "don't run non-apple apps on it" thing though
[15:43:34] <AbeFroman> surely it doesn't have .net either
[15:43:40] <LeftWing> haha
[15:43:53] <LeftWing> Mmm.
[15:43:58] <lasseoe> maybe it has applescript :)
[15:44:09] <AbeFroman> heh
[15:44:47] <LeftWing> It'll appeal to people who can both afford it and don't know what Java is or why they'd want third party apps -- which is probably a fair whack of the market anyway.
[15:45:19] <lasseoe> I have no use for 3rd party apps on phones
[15:45:32] <lasseoe> that's not to say that'll change, but I've never installed any apps on my phones
[15:45:46] <AbeFroman> someone mentioned it had an ssh client.  that's about all i need
[15:45:47] <LeftWing> I had a subnet calculator on my last phone.
[15:45:49] <lasseoe> err that it won't change
[15:45:54] <nachox> yes you do, for example i always miss tetris in my motorola cell :)
[15:46:12] <LeftWing> And I have an SSH client on my phone at the moment. =P
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[15:46:23] <jteo> fscking geeks.
[15:46:24] <cmihai> I have a ssh server on my Windows phone.
[15:46:25] <cap_> I have the following on mine (all java apps): Opera mini (browser), gmail, jmlirc and a small ssh client
[15:46:27] <cmihai> Beat that!
[15:46:30] <AbeFroman> damn!
[15:46:43] <cmihai> Microsoft actually has it's own OpenSSH server and client for Windows CE :)
[15:46:56] <LeftWing> heh
[15:47:01] <cap_> that on a mainstream SonyEricsson (not a smartphone)
[15:47:15] <LeftWing> Well my apps are on a Nokia 6288.
[15:47:19] <lasseoe> cmihai, why.. so you can ssh in and use Word-for-tty  ? :)
[15:47:22] <LeftWing> Which, to be honest, is enough phone for me.
[15:47:48] <cmihai> Heh, I dunno, Microsoft developers ported it for some reason.
[15:48:10] <quasi> http://sev.prnewswire.com/telecommunications/20070124/NYW03324012007-1.html - solaris pays better than aix ;)
[15:50:15] * andersmo is a tad surprised to find "Microsoft Project" on that list, right between SAP and Siebel... heh. =)
[15:50:18] <LeftWing> I can't believe Microsoft Project apparently pays almost as much as SAP.
[15:50:35] <lasseoe> hahaha
[15:50:54] <LeftWing> It's ... really not an immensely complicated product.
[15:51:05] <PerterB> in London AIX pays better than Solaris I think, mainly because there's less of it so it's more of a niche
[15:51:06] <quasi> LeftWing: fits well with project management paying as well as it does
[15:51:42] <quasi> PerterB: I'd also have to charge an extra fee if I was to do aix ;)
[15:51:48] <LeftWing> quasi: Quite.  Depends on whether it's a technical position, or not, though -- there is an MS Project server product. =P
[15:52:19] <jteo> can one actually get AIX for home use?
[15:52:25] <Stric> LeftWing: it's hard to make ms proj do what you want ;)
[15:52:30] <AbeFroman> wtf.  like smit is hard to use
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[15:52:40] <nachox> hmm, probably ibm still sells aix workstations
[15:52:44] <LeftWing> Stric: hehe, indeed.
[15:52:51] <quasi> jteo: on old hardware, yes
[15:53:43] <jteo> i detest solutions that involve spending moolah.
[15:53:47] <LeftWing> Goodness knows why you'd want it, though, apart from perhaps nostalgia value. =P
[15:54:04] <lasseoe> jteo: you must be a skinny fella :)
[15:54:49] <quasi> jteo: old rs/6000 can be bought for next to nothing
[15:54:58] <jteo> LeftWing: i love obscure bulletpoints on resume.
[15:55:07] <jteo> quasi: intriguing.
[15:55:17] <jteo> lasseoe: an astute observation.
[15:55:26] <lasseoe> :-)
[15:55:33] <LeftWing> jteo: How much time are you willing to spend turning it into resume-worthy material, though? =P
[15:55:41] <jteo> LeftWing: true.
[15:56:09] <Stric> * Watched an RS/6000 boot AIX once.
[15:56:40] * nachox has a couple of printed aix manuals he used for a documentation project
[15:56:47] <jbk> morning
[15:56:53] <nachox> on paper it looks great :P
[15:56:58] <AbeFroman> i've worked on it... even set up a cluster once.  i like the green on black console.
[15:57:04] <LeftWing> heh
[15:57:10] <AbeFroman> that's about it.  oh and how every command was lssomething
[15:57:23] <quasi> they have half way decent system admin certification books for aix
[15:57:54] <Stric> AbeFroman: ls*, mk*, ch*, rm*
[15:58:09] <quasi> jteo: but if you should change your mind and go shopping, make sure you get one new enough to run 5.3 - the really old ones are crap
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[15:58:19] <jteo> quasi: thanks for the headup
[15:58:24] <jteo> *heads
[15:59:13] <nachox> jteo: specialy if you want to run sso with them, old versions had a somewhat lacking pam support too
[15:59:15] <quasi> being stuck on 4.x aix is virtual stone age
[15:59:48] <jteo> SSO?
[15:59:53] <jteo> (not familiar)
[16:00:26] <nachox> single sign on
[16:00:29] <LeftWing> Single Sign On.
[16:00:51] <LeftWing> Presumably he means backing authentication off of LDAP or some such.
[16:01:04] <jteo> ah
[16:01:16] <jbk> heh
[16:01:19] <nachox> nis works fine but ldap does not
[16:01:30] <jbk> actually, the AIX people here tell me that while 5.2 includes pam, nothing on the system uses it
[16:01:48] <jbk> and prior to 5.3, it's ldap support stinks unless you want to use the padl libs
[16:02:01] <gallium> they'd still use the old LAM library
[16:02:02] <nachox> jbk: it's because they have another framework too
[16:02:17] <quasi> the nice thing about aix is smitty - having a "gui" that will output the commandline it is about to execute is pretty good for learning
[16:02:18] <nachox> now LAM is just another pam module for them
[16:05:38] <nachox> smitty is nice, yes, and they have something like rbac fully integrated too
[16:06:44] <cmihai> quasi: smitty actually has a GUI GUI, not just a "GUI" :P. It's called "smit" :>
[16:07:08] <quasi> cmihai: I know - that's why I said smitty instead of smit
[16:07:11] <cmihai> NetBSD cloned it into something very similar called "sushi" but was too broken to use :)
[16:07:24] <nachox> solaris has a gui too and it's called smc ;)
[16:07:30] <cmihai> Gasp
[16:08:47] <cmihai> Actually, smit, sam, admintool and the likes were pretty usable compared to smc
[16:11:11] <quasi> agreed
[16:11:55] <darrenm> and smc has a CLI as well!
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[16:13:53] <PerterB> hmm, dare I luactivate and boot a new untested BE on a remote box for which I have no console access
[16:14:32] <darrenm> luactivate is fine it the subsquent 'init 6' :-)
[16:15:24] <PerterB> "and boot" ;)
[16:15:51] <razrX> PerterB: not if you made the mistake of making /opt part of a zpool like i did (at least i think it was a mistake to do that).
[16:16:17] <razrX> i need to "fix" the /opt mount after each luupgrade
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[16:17:23] <tsoome> lucreate should allow zfs for non-root fs's
[16:18:19] <razrX> tsoome: maybe my lucreate switches were not sufficient enough
[16:18:41] <tsoome> nope
[16:18:47] <cmihai> Hm.. having some issues with lucrate
[16:18:48] <tsoome> it cant cope with zfs
[16:18:59] <cmihai> Well, compare actually.
[16:19:00] <razrX> lucreate -c snv_5x -m /:/dev/dsk/c1d0s7:ufs -n snv_55 for instance is what i used at the time
[16:19:05] <cmihai> It's being goint at it for 4 hours now...
[16:19:51] <cmihai> Creating compare database for file system </>.
[16:20:09] <cmihai> Never seen it take this long before...
[16:20:41] <cmihai> Not responding to ^c and kill either...
[16:23:00] <cmihai> No luck with LU here. The one i did a few days ago had no JDS or working CDE :)
[16:23:25] <razrX> cmihai: you prolly need to start over m8
[16:23:55] <cmihai> Yeah, been liveupgradeing the thing for quite some builds now... something must've borked along the way
[16:24:27] <cmihai> I'm just too lasy to bother writing a dvd, etc.
[16:24:41] * razrX keeps his fingers x'ed everytime he runs lucreate/luupgrade/luactive/shutdown sequence
[16:25:04] <razrX> i've written a mini howto for myself
[16:25:16] <razrX> otherwise i tend to forget the important bits ;)
[16:25:25] <cmihai> Like what?
[16:25:45] <cmihai> There's like 4 steps..
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[16:26:08] <razrX> the options passed to lucreate for example and the info what steps to take in case your system truly gets borked
[16:26:38] <cmihai> Just boot the other enviroment or restore your backup :)
[16:26:51] <razrX> backupz ? we don't need no stinking backupz
[16:26:52] <razrX> ;)
[16:26:53] <cmihai> Or just reinstall, my data is on ZFS storage anyway :)
[16:27:38] <razrX> ehrm, would it help you in understanding my situation a bit better if i were to tell you this is all on a 1 disk setup ? ;)
[16:27:49] <razrX> 1 LU slice
[16:28:08] <cmihai> Oh :)
[16:28:20] <razrX> thought so ;)
[16:28:21] <cmihai> Cheap bastard aren't you :P
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[16:28:30] <razrX> my employer certainly is
[16:28:42] <razrX> 1 disk pc
[16:28:51] <cmihai> Hehe
[16:29:14] <razrX> and it's , ahem, something that rimes like hell ;)
[16:29:19] <cmihai> Same, but I proceded to make the other's "Diskless Thin Clients" if you get my meaning :P
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[16:29:35] <jteo> ...
[16:30:10] <razrX> well, you've got to manage to the max
[16:30:30] <razrX> squeeze everything out of the hardware available to you i'd say ;)
[16:30:37] <cmihai> Hm.. odd, ran the same command after kill -9 and it was done in like 15 minutes instead of 4 hourslol
[16:30:59] <razrX> how's your /etc/lutab looking now cmihai
[16:30:59] <razrX> ?
[16:31:26] <razrX> looking okay?
[16:32:09] <cmihai> Yup
[16:32:22] <cmihai> lustatus looks nice too
[16:32:35] <razrX> snv_54 can delete: yes ?
[16:32:44] <cmihai> Yup
[16:32:47] <razrX> i'm assuming that's what you're currently using
[16:33:06] <cmihai> No
[16:33:23] <cmihai> As in, I can't delete snv_54 since that's what I'm using atm
[16:33:36] <cmihai> As in, it's active now. I just did the lucreate now.
[16:33:39] <razrX> sorry, you're correct
[16:33:49] <razrX> kk, thought you were in the luupgrade phase
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[16:34:23] <cmihai> Going for the luupgrade -u -n svn55b -s /dvd && luactivate svn55b && init 6 now :)
[16:35:09] * razrX keeps fingers x'ed for cmihai
[16:35:26] <cmihai> Nah, can't fail :)
[16:35:39] <razrX> rock solid technology [Tm] ;)
[16:36:10] <razrX> i've luupgraded this box 3 times already, never failed on me once
[16:36:32] <razrX> jumping from slice 0 to 7 and back again
[16:36:57] <cmihai> Done it dozen of times on all my machines, when it failed a simple ludelete / lucreate fixed the issue.
[16:37:16] <razrX> Grub's boot menu gets copied/moved to correct slice each time also thankfully :P
[16:37:23] <cmihai> Besides, if you use 2 enviroments there's little room for error.
[16:37:26] <razrX> i hate single disk systems
[16:37:42] <cmihai> Well, that's what /altroot is for :)
[16:37:47] <razrX> LOL
[16:38:48] <razrX> hmm, Dec 6, Dec 19 and Jan 22 ... and by the looks of things it'll prolly become #4 come February
[16:39:06] <razrX> when snv_56 gets released
[16:40:09] <cmihai> There we go, It's working. Time to head home then :). See ya
[16:40:18] <razrX> cu
[16:40:26] <cmihai> Won't upgrade the other machines until I see this one works ;]
[16:40:36] <razrX> oc
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[17:23:46] <PerterB> coo, it worked, now to luupgrade (no zfs issues razrX, this is a 9 to 10 upgrade... did get bitten by that at home though)
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[17:28:01] <PerterB> also by the fact liveupgrade makes some curious assumptions about which drive was booted from when deciding whether to let you delete a boot environment
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[18:03:07] <richlowe> movement: yeah?
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[18:20:55] <cmihai> Well, that's no fun.
[18:21:19] <cmihai> LiveUpgrade from svn54 to svn55b (remote) locked me out :].
[18:21:50] <cmihai> 54 had ssh, ftp, telnet, etc. enabled, 55b seems to have locked everything up hehe
[18:22:05] <movement> richlowe: never mind now ;)
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[18:38:50] <richlowe> movement: well, now I'm puzzled.
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[18:38:54] <darrenm> cmihai: 54 should have only had ssh enabled too, if it was a fresh install, it it was an upgrade from some thing older than 48 things like telnet could have sill been enabled
[18:39:09] <darrenm> the default for a fresh install of Solaris Express afer snv_48 is only ssh enabled
[18:39:26] <darrenm> for Solaris 10u3 a question is asked during install (or the answer provided via sysidcfg)
[18:39:31] <richlowe> "only ssh listening for general network connections."
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[18:55:16] <sickness> i'm back
[18:57:11] <cmihai> darrenm: yeah, was wondering if the new policy was to close up ssh as well or something, since ssh didn't come up (nmap shows nothing). Machine responds to ping and all that. And ssh (and even ftp and stuff) enabled in the old version. All I did was a simple init 6 into the new env after LU.
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[19:07:00] <PerterB> maybe some other service on which they all depended failed?
[19:09:00] <cmihai> Hm.. could be.
[19:11:48] <PerterB> eg I once had filesystem/local fail after a liveupgrade (the copy phase populated /export/home so then zfs refused to mount over the top of a non-empty directory), and pretty much everything depends on filesystem/local
[19:17:40] <Doc> hmm.. our local MD just gave his quarterly "Vision" award to someone that resigned in december and finished up about a week ago
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[19:18:29] <richlowe> PerterB: the joys of LU/zfs interaction.
[19:18:33] * richlowe does that pretty much constantly
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[19:36:59] <sommerfeld> and they're back.
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[19:43:30] <ibb> sheeps come back to the heard
[19:43:52] * PerterB baaaaaas
[19:44:17] <ibb> lol
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[19:51:13] <pikapika> hello
[19:51:50] <ibb> hi
[19:52:23] <sickness> hi
[19:52:26] <jbk> hi
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[20:25:07] <Theoden-Nexenta> http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert20071832660125.gif
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[20:28:08] <CIA-22> Pete Jha: 6497789 IO box Linkup sequence is not compliant with Oberon HW spec 1.04; 6510353 incorrect serialid format in apid for Sun IOboxes
[20:28:09] <CIA-22> Erik Nordmark: 6516610 recent IP changes break quagga build
[20:28:16] <CIA-22> js198686: 6501388 pwd subcommand in in.ftpd truncates the first 3 bytes from dirname, if dirname is a symlink
[20:28:23] <CIA-22> Tom Erickson: 6513863 java_api tests assume that PATH includes current directory; 6515452 Program.File deserialization is broken
[20:28:31] <CIA-22> Rao Shoaib: 6514760 RDS Address resolution has issue when multiple interfaces are present; 6516581 The rdsib driver fails to attach when installing from CDs
[20:28:34] <stevel> sorry, bridge went offline yesterday with jurassic
[20:28:37] <CIA-22> pm145316: 6451741 Olympus-C prefetch tuning needs to completed
[20:28:45] <CIA-22> Joseph Bonasera: 6460904 dboot: fails to initialize bm.pcimem
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[20:28:58] <PerterB> What's a Oberon? :)
[20:29:13] <stevel> an old language
[20:30:07] <PerterB> "IO box Linkup sequence is not compliant with Oberon HW spec 1.04"
[20:30:44] <elektronkind> Oberon, also Auberon, King of Fairies,, is best known as a character in William Shakespeare's play, A Midsummer Night's Dream, written in the mid-1590s
[20:31:18] <PerterB> pff
[20:32:07] <CIA-22> Eric Schrock: PSARC 2007/036 sysevent DTrace provider; 6517131 sysevent DTrace provider
[20:35:33] <richlowe> PerterB: king of the fairies?
[20:37:03] <PerterB> yeah yeah, also the stage name of a London DJ (who always claimed he wasn't a fairy, but I have my doubts)
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[20:38:26] <sommerfeld> PerterB: Oberon appears to be code name for an I/O chip or chipset.
[20:38:54] <richlowe> host/pci-e bridge on the olympus machines, I had thought.
[20:40:18] <PerterB> ah right, was just trying to guess if it was a machine codename or just a component
[20:42:20] <PerterB> grepping the source certainly suggests it's pci-e related
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[20:53:06] <wamty> I'm working from home today working on getting a circuit from the board of trade up to our datacenter :/ not easy
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[20:56:19] <noyb> drive...  dying...
[20:58:09] <noyb> I hate that.   at least there's a warning.  :)    it's like the heads get lost and try banging about the enclosure until satisfied.  very strange.
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[21:01:07] <noyb> click rattle, click rattle, click rattle...  2 times per second for about 30 seconds.  everything continues to work fine...
[21:02:11] <quasi> noyb: are you sure the drive isn't doing auto correction of broken sectors?
[21:02:30] <noyb> no
[21:04:01] <noyb> pretty old solaris.  /etc/release says:   Solaris 10 3/05 s10_74L2a SPARC
[21:04:18] <noyb> it's my irc box, so I don't keep up.  It just works.
[21:05:08] <elektronkind> wow, white-out snow conditions outside my office right now
[21:05:47] <noyb> where?
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[21:05:51] <twincest> what is dboot?
[21:06:05] <elektronkind> noyb: here in baltimore, maryland, US
[21:06:09] <noyb> ah
[21:07:14] <noyb> Lancaster, CA, US seems a little cooler than usual, but the sun is shining...  as usual.  snow would be nice.
[21:07:15] <glagasse> twincest: dboot == directboot.  in the past grub used something called multiboot to start up, as I understand it dboot eliminates that
[21:07:28] <twincest> so there's no boot_archive anymore?
[21:07:45] <movement> it's still there
[21:07:49] <richlowe> it's there still.
[21:07:58] <richlowe> it's smaller though, I believe.
[21:08:10] <richlowe> at least, I thought they did sensible things like split them up on ISA boundaries...
[21:08:21] <movement> yes
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[21:17:14] <Number1> any one want to help me with jumpstart?
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[21:17:56] <sommerfeld> quasi: thermal recalibration maybe?
[21:18:48] <Number1> im trying to install Solaris 10 on a SPARC Ultra 60 with no cdrom... so i setup a centos box (x86) and tryied doing a jumpstart... tcpdump says its replying with an ERR 24
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[21:19:25] <twincest> Number1: i don't know what that error means, but on Linux servers you should try disabling nfsv4
[21:19:31] <twincest> (or do it on the solaris side)
[21:19:40] <tsoome> error on what?
[21:19:45] <tsoome> tftp?
[21:19:48] <tsoome> nfs?
[21:20:01] <Number1> well it gets ip and everything via rarp
[21:20:07] <richlowe> there's also the whole extended bootparams bits
[21:20:22] <Number1> then the client requests some packet... and the server replys with an ERR 24...
[21:20:34] <tsoome> if rarp, then you need also bootparams, tftp and nfs
[21:20:37] <richlowe> (I forget the specifics, I think a bootparamd willing to hand out a half-empty bit of info?)
[21:20:58] <Number1> well first when i do boot net - install... it sayz cant find the file... so i manulle type the path to the file
[21:21:14] <tsoome> you have set up jumpstart?
[21:21:32] <Number1> ok this is wat i did:
[21:21:56] <Number1> i tried using Solairs 10 CD... but i couldnt setup the server because the Boot folder was not mounted
[21:22:04] <Number1> so i put in a Solaris 10 DVD
[21:22:10] <tsoome> anyhow, you can check out docs.sun.com advanced installation manual
[21:22:11] <Number1> and from that i setup a jumpstart server
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[21:22:53] <richlowe> tsoome: which doesn't cover the somewhat annoying bits required to use linux as the server...
[21:23:30] <tsoome> depends - there are all bits about rarp, bootparams and tftp
[21:23:49] <tsoome> so - if you are using linux, you should know how to set up those services
[21:24:07] <Number1> im sure i got i got rarp, bootparam and tftp setup
[21:24:08] <Number1> right
[21:24:24] <richlowe> tsoome: like I said, I seem to recall (one of the?) linux bootparam daemons not liking boottype=:in (half empty) type options.
[21:24:38] <tsoome> ah, I see
[21:24:40] <richlowe> tsoome: which doesn't really fall under "knowing how to set them up" so much as "figuring out what the hell is going on". :)
[21:25:02] <tsoome> boottype is not critical anyhow:)
[21:25:15] <tsoome> also, I'd suggest to use dhcp
[21:25:32] <tsoome> ;)
[21:26:04] <Number1> but will the SPARC boot from dhcp?
[21:26:09] <tsoome> sure
[21:26:10] <Number1> doesn't it need rarp to get ip?
[21:26:15] <tsoome> all ultrasparcs can
[21:26:18] <tsoome> no
[21:26:25] <tsoome> rarp is default method
[21:26:35] <tsoome> but you can use boot net:dhcp
[21:26:36] <nachox> speaking of netinstall, i need to install an hpux in an old hp workstation that uses a weird hp protocol, i hope the #hpux guys know how to install them using linux...
[21:27:04] <tsoome> or you can even redefine net alias to use dhcp by default
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[21:28:24] <tsoome> very first ultrasparc prom versions did not support dhcp, but then  the prom is too oled to run solaris and you would need to upgrade it
[21:28:45] <tsoome> s/oled/old/
[21:29:38] <Number1> well i did boot net:dhcp - install... and it says time out for arp/rarp...
[21:30:14] <tsoome> tcpdump?
[21:30:34] <Number1> the server side tcpdump says its requesting a rarp
[21:30:51] <tsoome> then it did not got the dhcp arg
[21:31:16] <tsoome> somehow.....
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[21:32:29] <Number1> another thing i want to say is that i read how the solaris cd is sopuse to mount a s0 and s1
[21:32:54] <Number1> well when i put the cd in it does not mount thouse
[21:32:59] <tsoome> use dvd:)
[21:33:12] <tsoome> and image:D
[21:33:29] <Number1> well ya the dvd mounts everything fine...
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[21:34:56] <Number1> from doc.sun.com i see that it syaz for a SPRAC dvd meand u would go to /cdrom/cdrom0/s0/Solaris_10/TOols.... when i put my dvd in its jus /cdrom/cdrom0/Solaris_10/TOols...
[21:35:00] <Number1> ... no s0
[21:36:42] <sommerfeld> actually, it's perfectly possible to run solaris on systems with OBP revs which don't support dhcp.
[21:36:45] <Number1> another quesion... because im makeing the server on a x86... do i use the SPARC soalris cd or the x86 solaris cd
[21:36:56] <sommerfeld> (skinned my knuckles moving the jumper on a bunch of ultra60's to fix that)
[21:37:20] <tsoome> well, you will use cd for a client, not for a server;)
[21:37:36] <Number1> ?
[21:38:10] <Number1> i have a SPARC client, x86 Server... so do i setup the server with SPARC DVD or x86 dvd?
[21:38:24] <jbk> uugh
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[21:38:33] <Number1> caz im trying to use the sparc dvd... which would explane y its not mounting the s0
[21:38:43] <jbk> oracle is wanting to put some of the rac processes into the real-time scheduling class :(
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[21:39:08] <CIA-22> dg199075: 6182934 hme driver does not initialize multi_collisions kstat; Contributed by Bruce Shaw <Bruce.Shaw at gov dot ab.ca>.
[21:39:38] <jbk> that just makes me nervous
[21:41:41] <andersmo> the cluster management bits of rac? the lovely little bits that insta-kill the machine with "uadmin 1 1" (or whateveritwas) if they die? =)
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[21:42:07] <jbk> the lms processes
[21:42:16] <jbk> oh, i'd love to shoot those bits too :)
[21:42:23] <jbk> crs is crap
[21:42:34] <sommerfeld> actually, it may well be processes which *prevent* other things from doing the insta-kill
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[21:43:06] <sommerfeld> (watchdogs and equivalent in real-time class, lest a busy machine not schedule a runnable watchdog-pat in time..)
[21:43:16] <jbk> and it's not just if they die that they do that
[21:43:25] <jbk> i swear you look at crs wrong and it does that
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[21:48:43] <twincest> how does the installer program know what its hostname should be?
[21:53:17] <bubbva> the old installer used to ask. I haven't tried the new installer, but I hear that it just makes one up for you :|
[21:54:19] <bubbva> (I've been live upgrading for so long, I haven't seen a real installer in years ;-)
[21:56:54] *** GmanZZZ is now known as Gman
[21:56:57] <Gman> hey hey
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[21:57:56] <sommerfeld> and netboot/jumpstart will figure it out for you based on what ip address OBP or grub picked.
[21:58:16] <twincest> well, i'm installing S10 via netboot (dhcp) and it didn't ask; and didn't pick it up from dhcp either
[21:58:19] <nachox> hey Gman
[21:58:23] <twincest> it seems to think its hostname is the empty string
[21:58:52] <_william_> hi all
[21:59:01] <Gman> nachox, _william_: howdy :)
[21:59:18] <_william_> hi Gman
[22:00:02] <richlowe> hey Gman.
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[22:02:09] <twincest> hmm, maybe it's confused by CNAME assignments
[22:07:15] <elektronkind> wait, so I don't really need to specify the IP, default route, or netmask in a sysidcfg file when jumpstarting? is this new?
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[22:12:07] <jbk> now this oracle guy is trying to say I should configure IPMP across two connections on different vlans
[22:12:15] <jbk> then use router magic to bridge the IP networks
[22:12:32] * jbk bangs his head on his desk
[22:12:51] <Darwin> hm anyone knows of a good summary on converting gcc flags into sun compiler flags? I mean, most of all the software out there use gcc flags in their makefiles... and so wont compile with a sun compiler..
[22:13:05] <jbk> Darwin: i thought sun had a tool to do that
[22:13:20] <twincest> i wouldn't say "most" programs use gcc-specific flags
[22:13:25] <twincest> i don't remember seeing any recently that do
[22:13:42] <Darwin> for example -Wall
[22:14:39] <Darwin> jbk: do you know the name of that tool? I was googling but didnt find anything useful
[22:14:44] *** lacaAFK is now known as laca
[22:14:49] <axisys> anyone else saw this
[22:14:52] <axisys> http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9009122&source=NLT_PM&nlid=8
[22:14:53] <jbk> unfortunately no, I just seem to remember some sun blog mentioning it
[22:15:13] <axisys> kudos to dclarke
[22:17:07] <movement> darrenm: cw
[22:17:11] <movement> er
[22:17:18] <movement> Darwin: cw - usr/src/tools/cw in ON
[22:17:29] <movement> but it works the other way around
[22:18:32] <Darwin> hmm kay
[22:23:35] <sommerfeld> but the sources might prove useful as a rosetta stone
[22:24:17] *** alanc-away is now known as alanc
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[22:28:11] <twincest> is there any point editing hosts if i add the entry to ipnodeS?
[22:28:40] <sommerfeld> it's best if ipnodes and hosts contain the same contents
[22:28:52] <twincest> ok.  (except for ipv6, i guess)
[22:29:02] <sommerfeld> actually, it's ok to have v6 in /etc/hosts
[22:29:09] <twincest> ah
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[22:29:21] <sommerfeld> ipnodes is a symlink to hosts in recent nevada builds
[22:29:34] <twincest> yeah, this is !0
[22:29:35] <twincest> er, S10
[22:30:03] <sommerfeld> it was a mistake to not put v6 into /etc/hosts initially.  everyone else did it the other way, and then we (recently) came around to match everyone else.
[22:30:06] <bubbva> "soon" that nevada change will make it to a patch near you for 10...:-)
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[22:35:45] <twincest> hmm, creating /etc/hostname6.bge0 isn't the right way to assign an IP?  it configured v6 but the v6 if is down
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[22:45:44] <richlowe> I'm not sure how static ipv6 configuration is done, as I've never bothered.
[22:45:49] <richlowe> I tend to let ndpd do the work.
[22:46:02] <twincest> i dislike ipv6 autoconfig for servers, it makes dns annoying
[22:46:52] <sommerfeld> twincest: add " up" to the end of the command in that file.
[22:46:52] <richlowe> it does?
[22:47:04] <richlowe> the address ndpd gives you should be static for that host (NIC, really).
[22:47:12] <richlowe> mostly it's keyed off the MAC.
[22:47:22] <sommerfeld> filling in the inverse zone is annoying
[22:47:31] <richlowe> True.
[22:47:32] <twincest> richlowe: yes, so not only do i have to know what the IP will be before i can configure DNS, i have to change it whenever the NIC changes
[22:47:35] <richlowe> but that's the case for ipv6 in general ;)
[22:47:46] <twincest> plus i use an ipv6 addressing scheme that maps to/from v4 addresses trivially, for easier management
[22:47:48] <richlowe> (reverse zones being annoying)
[22:48:02] <twincest> sommer: hmm, it didn't even configure the IP on the interface, will that work?
[22:48:15] <richlowe> whoever decided the 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 syntax should stay should have been shot the moment they first mentioned it ;)
[22:52:22] <twincest> apparently i need a peculiarly complicated processes called "user-specified IPv6 token"
[22:52:45] <sommerfeld> hmm.  i've just used the autoconfig addresses myself.
[22:53:41] <richlowe> You know, I'd expected 2007/048 to be contentious, but not nearly *this* contentious (or in some cases for such twisted reasons)
[22:54:13] * Gman sighs at psarc-ext
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[22:58:07] <alanc> it's a bike shed - everyone knows enough about it to have an opinion
[22:58:19] <richlowe> It's not though.
[22:58:26] <richlowe> at least 90% of their 'opinion' is completely unrelated.
[22:58:32] <richlowe> licensing argument, argument about already set precedent.
[22:58:35] <richlowe> random junk.
[22:58:44] <alanc> it's nice doing X cases sometimes - everyone just assumes I know more about most of it than they do... 8-)
[22:58:54] *** alanc is now known as alanc-away
[22:59:01] <richlowe> if you actually cut the crap out of that case, it comes to about 16 messages ;)
[22:59:16] <Gman> we need some jek3 smackdown.
[23:01:35] <sommerfeld> part of the problem is that most of the people ranting are doing so in ignorance of arc conventions.
[23:01:55] <Gman> 'Like I said. I didn't think I'd have much say here. Just wanted to be heard.
[23:01:56] <Gman> '
[23:02:00] <Gman> says it all doesn't it? ):
[23:02:01] <richlowe> sommerfeld: I said similar to Gman just now.
[23:02:08] <richlowe> I put it less politely though, I admit.
[23:02:35] <Gman> [and less puppies]
[23:03:14] <richlowe> I have serious concerns that the amount of tangenital ranting will eventually present a barrier to people conducting cases in the open.
[23:03:23] <richlowe> "if it goes to psarc-ext, I'll have to deal with all *that* crap.  No way"
[23:03:24] <twincest> what is rpc/smserver?
[23:03:46] <Gman> course, this is where the real smart ARC people write a blog/post and point this out [ahem]
[23:05:34] <sommerfeld> the real smart ARC people would do this if they weren't tied up clubbing *other* bad ideas into submission.
[23:06:41] <CosmicDJ> twincest: svcs -l rpc/smserver
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[23:09:13] <Gman> sommerfeld, haha
[23:10:31] <Gman> oh jeeze, now plocher is proposing putting OSS software into somewhere other than /usr/bin
[23:10:49] <twincest> /usr/opensource/bin/ls?
[23:11:03] <richlowe> from the point of view of an outsider that hasn't really dealt much with that stuff, I'd say that plocher has the inate ability to make anything an order of magnitude more complex than it needs to be or was previously.
[23:11:14] <Gman> haha
[23:11:17] * Gman ^5's richlowe
[23:11:19] *** nachox has quit IRC
[23:11:20] <AbeFroman> i know a few people like that
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[23:13:16] <twincest> hmm, so extracting studio 11 right after logging in as root is a bad idea
[23:14:37] <sommerfeld> (i'll be vague, because it's a not-open case, but someone thinks they have carte blanche from management to be an exception to Secure by Default..)
[23:15:00] <richlowe> you'd mentioned that previously (in similarly vague terms), I still can't see how there can be much in the way of argument there.
[23:15:04] *** robelkin has joined #opensolaris
[23:15:07] <richlowe> the answer is "No", and can't really be anything else. :)
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[23:15:59] * Gman checks psarc archives
[23:16:04] * twincest also forgets that smpatch can't be used with ipv6 enabled
[23:18:07] <Gman> sommerfeld, mmm, they like pdf too it seems :/
[23:19:21] <sommerfeld> No.  GaryW likes pdf.  They provided opendocument
[23:19:54] <Gman> perfect for replying inline
[23:19:55] <Gman> not.
[23:22:39] <twincest> hmm neat, it also decided to use classful subnetting for the netmask
[23:26:11] <sommerfeld> Gman: you'd almost think they weren't interested in our input...
[23:26:40] <comay> Gman: (catching up with the scrollback) wait until somthing *really* contentious comes up on psarc-ext :-P
[23:26:52] <Gman> sommerfeld, *ouch*
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[23:28:45] <Gman> comay, i'm actually struggling to figure out what that might be..
[23:28:50] <CIA-22> ab196087: PSARC 2007/026 ELF symbol sort sections; 6475344 DTrace needs ELF function and data symbols sorted by address
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[23:30:33] *** swa_mobil is now known as sea_wtf
[23:30:34] <Gman> "If we can't get the forums into a reasonable state after the upgrade we will look into removing Jive from site completely and finding a lightweight replacement to allow users to view and search the mail archives as well as provide a posting facility for registered users. "
[23:30:37] <richlowe> Gman: me too, actually.
[23:30:37] <Gman> BOOSHAKA!
[23:30:39] <Gman> :)
[23:30:39] *** sea_wtf is now known as swa_wtf
[23:30:52] <Gman> richlowe, rpm as a package format?
[23:30:55] <sommerfeld> Gman: woohoo!
[23:31:36] <richlowe> Gman: I was assuming comay had a project in mind, rather than just a general 'just you wait...' kind of statement.
[23:31:45] *** robelkin has quit IRC
[23:32:32] <sommerfeld> wow. They assert "There are no relevant standards to which we do not conform."
[23:33:33] * steleman proposes to upgrade opensolaris.org to PHP
[23:33:46] * steleman also ducks
[23:33:55] <comay> richlowe: perhaps a little bit of both
[23:34:12] <comay> which PHP. stefan? :-)
[23:34:27] <steleman> comay: there can be only one PHP. :-)
[23:34:35] <steleman> i hereby decree :-)
[23:34:52] <comay> i meant is this the PHP you're working on? :-)
[23:35:00] <Gman> opensolaris.org for the most part just works, though i'd love more people to be able to edit/create pages
[23:35:17] <Gman> steleman, back to your corner and get those packages out!
[23:35:24] <steleman> comay: it could be. we could use PostgreSQL as a backend and there's a bunch of BB's written
[23:35:38] <richlowe> sommerfeld: respond with "common decency" ;)
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[23:38:28] * steleman watches the dismay
[23:39:42] <steleman> Gman: no packages until Apache is upgraded
[23:39:55] <Gman> steleman, bet that will take a couple of months ;)
[23:40:06] <steleman> Gman: actually, i have Apache built.
[23:40:22] <steleman> 2.2.4 is very civilized and stable
[23:41:29] <wamty> I'm trying to think of companies that would have large datacenters/NOCs where I might work after I graduate.
[23:41:34] <wamty> perhaps stock market companies ?
[23:42:23] <jbk> many large companies
[23:42:25] <jbk> banks
[23:42:34] <jbk> telcos
[23:42:40] <jbk> retail
[23:42:47] <jbk> etc.
[23:43:29] <wamty> I was looking at telecom companies primarily.
[23:44:35] <wamty> T-Mobile USA is based out of my hometown now, and have their primary datacenters about half an hour away.
[23:45:16] <wamty> I've heard (from my parents, who I guess were in a position to know :P) that the cost of living is really bad there nowadays... :/
[23:45:34] <_william_> gn
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[23:49:01] <wamty> I already work at a company with a medium-sized datacenter, and know some people who work in there. I figure that's where I'll start once I graduate.
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