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[00:33:02] <Error_e^ipi> thank god i have a copy of SI
[00:33:45] <Error_e^ipi> one of my assignments i have to map out the address space & i thought it was bugging out because the stack was below text
[00:34:14] <Error_e^ipi> as it turns out, normal behavior
[00:34:40] <delewis> Error_e^ipi, on x86, I presume?
[00:35:01] <Error_e^ipi> no, i just compiled it 32 bit
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[00:35:40] <delewis> no, I meant stack is at the top of the memory space for SPARC and at the bottom for x86.
[00:38:33] <Error_e^ipi> yes,
[00:39:06] <Error_e^ipi> which is why it's a good thing i have a copy of SI
[00:39:14] <Error_e^ipi> or else i'd be pissing around trying to debug this
[00:39:35] <delewis> x86 is backwards in that regard :-)
[00:39:45] <delewis> even other CISC systems, like VAX, had the stack at the top of the memory space.
[00:40:40] <jbk> well x86 is backwards in many respects :)
[00:40:51] <delewis> indeed.
[00:40:58] <delewis> multiple register sets. ugh.
[00:41:08] * delewis wonders what they were thinking.
[00:42:38] <jmcp> delewis: "we must maintain compatibility with the 8008"
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[00:44:21] <Error_e^ipi> do other x86 oses do that as well?
[00:44:34] <delewis> Error_e^ipi, all of the, as far as I know.
[00:44:37] <delewis> them*
[00:44:46] <Error_e^ipi> interesting
[00:44:50] <Error_e^ipi> also, stupid
[00:45:29] <delewis> makes stack overflow far more likely :-)
[00:46:01] <delewis> as stack is growing upwards towards text
[00:46:28] <Error_e^ipi> ? no, it still grows down
[00:46:55] <delewis> Error_e^ipi, how can it grow down if its at the bottom of the memory space?
[00:47:46] <Error_e^ipi> it starts at 0x8048000 and grows down to 0x0
[00:48:20] <Error_e^ipi> i have the memory map in SI sitting in front of me right now
[00:48:24] <delewis> ah, still not exactly ideal. :-)
[00:49:30] <Error_e^ipi> not really, no
[00:49:38] <delewis> on SPARC (and other reasonable systems) stack grows downward from the top until it reaches the heap (which may or may not be used), so its the most optimal way to ensure there's space for the stack and heap.
[00:49:51] <Error_e^ipi> yeah, amd64 too
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[00:50:22] <wamty_> i didn't know solaris was a free download now
[00:50:28] <wamty_> didn't that used to be expensive? :P
[00:50:39] <delewis> wamty_, it has been since Solaris 8.
[00:50:41] <delewis> so 6 years.
[00:50:42] <Error_e^ipi> no, it's been a free download for a long time
[00:51:01] <jmcp> wamty_: gee, you've a few years out of touch
[00:51:14] <Error_e^ipi> it is now not only free as in download, it's free as in stallman
[00:51:40] * delewis wonders if wamty_ lives in Antarctica where the news service runs a bit slow.
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[01:04:08] * steleman has a very bad feeling about the idea of mlock(3C)'ing libc.so.1 ...
[01:06:26] <sickness> i'm back
[01:09:35] <ibb> im back too
[01:10:06] <jbk> in indy?
[01:10:20] <jamesd> damm the sickness is back...  whose going to call the doctor, and make another appointment.
[01:10:27] <ibb> yes, in indy
[01:10:52] <jbk> judging by your hostmask, i'm going to assume you took the exciting drive down i65 :)
[01:11:15] <ibb> it was a long drive, that is all i care for right now
[01:11:24] <steleman> Indianapolis: only 48 hours behind the rest of the world :-)
[01:11:31] <jbk> s/hours/years/
[01:12:13] <Error_e^ipi> steleman: why are you locking up libc?
[01:12:44] <steleman> Error: i'm not. it's being discussed on kde-core-devel and i humbly suggested that the adverse effects might outweigh the benefits ... :-)
[01:13:27] <Error_e^ipi> heh
[01:13:28] <Error_e^ipi> good
[01:14:06] <steleman> and this is only being discussed because a certain other operating system's OOM killer does not seem to function as advertised ;-)
[01:14:41] <jbk> i still wish i could understand the thought process behind that
[01:14:51] <Error_e^ipi> jbk: which, OOM ?
[01:14:54] <steleman> OOM killer ?
[01:14:59] <jbk> yeah
[01:15:04] <steleman> maybe it was meant as Out-Of-Money killer
[01:15:11] <steleman> (to be used in Vegas)
[01:15:25] <jamesd> what does my wife have to do with anything.
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[01:15:49] <jbk> 'instead of fixing our vm, we'll just kill stuff randomly'
[01:15:50] <Error_e^ipi> yeah, OOM is one of the worst "features" i've ever heard of
[01:16:08] <Error_e^ipi> just bloody fail on fork()....
[01:16:27] <steleman> it's the kernel version of the Mad Bomber User(TM) (the one who starts hitting keys at random when things don't seem to work right)
[01:16:50] <jbk> it's damn annoying :)
[01:17:21] <galt> consider it job security as a solaris admin ;P
[01:17:44] <LeftWing> SunSolve hurts me.
[01:18:13] <jbk> actually, most places will probably just live with it
[01:18:24] <jbk> i mean, look how much crap they'll tolerate with M$
[01:23:21] <steleman> apache 2.2.4 seems much more civilized than 2.2.3
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[01:37:03] <dclarke> hello
[01:37:08] <sickness> hi dclarke
[01:37:09] <jamesd> hi
[01:37:19] <dclarke> g'day .. long time no type
[01:37:20] <Error_e^ipi> hey dclarke
[01:37:34] <dclarke> hello there Error-1
[01:37:56] <dclarke> actually .. it would be Error_-1
[01:38:05] <Error_e^ipi> how goes?
[01:38:06] <dclarke> what ever ..
[01:38:09] <dclarke> stressed
[01:38:23] <dclarke> too much going on in life and in work etc etc
[01:38:31] <Error_e^ipi> *nod*
[01:39:11] <dclarke> my Genesi EFIKA project is coming along
[01:39:16] <dclarke> nicely
[01:39:23] <steleman> hi dclarke
[01:39:27] <Error_e^ipi> the case & so forth?
[01:39:28] <dclarke> I have a decent steel case designed
[01:39:42] <dclarke> steleman : hey man .. sorry I didn't call
[01:39:50] <dclarke> up to my ears in _life_ here
[01:39:56] <steleman> dclarke: i figured
[01:40:21] <dclarke> out of the woods though
[01:40:26] <steleman> yah ?
[01:40:39] <dclarke> the father in law seems to be well on his way to doing better .. pain killers installed fully
[01:41:02] <dclarke> essentually he is well stoned and .. I can't tell the diff anyways
[01:41:16] <dclarke> back to other stuff ..
[01:41:36] <dclarke> want a sneek peek at that new case design for the Genesi PowerPC EFIKA ?
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[01:41:47] <steleman> sure
[01:41:50] <dclarke> http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/micro-server/EFK-18GA-rev1.10_003_ATI_Radeon.png
[01:42:11] <dclarke> http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/micro-server/EFK-18GA-rev1.10_001_ATI_Radeon.png
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[01:42:18] <dclarke> actually .. I rejected that one
[01:42:36] <dclarke> there was a wee bit of a problem with the placement of the half height PCI card
[01:42:43] <dclarke> a 1.7 mm problem
[01:42:48] <dclarke> easy to work aroubnd
[01:42:53] <dclarke> easy to work around
[01:43:27] <dlg> i thought genesi had folded
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[01:43:38] <dclarke> hardly
[01:43:59] <Error_e^ipi> they just stopped making the odw
[01:44:01] <dclarke> they are simply re-tooling for the next wave .. I gues
[01:44:08] <dclarke> yeah .. its old news
[01:44:33] <dclarke> this is my design : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/micro-server/server_prototype_02.jpg
[01:44:49] <dclarke> its based on 18 gauge steel and powder coated blue
[01:45:21] <dclarke> I have one in an office in Toronto with a guy doing PostgreSQL db work on it
[01:45:46] <dclarke> and I took my first real order for 25 units on Thursday
[01:45:57] <dclarke> so I think as a prototype its coming along nicely
[01:46:29] <sickness> dclarke: cool designs! =)
[01:46:45] <jamesd> nice... hope you planned in a good proffit for yourself.
[01:46:47] <dclarke> I wanted to go the extreme opposite of cheap plastic
[01:47:02] <dclarke> there is no profit in hardware anymore
[01:47:03] <sickness> dclarke: but is the opensolaris port already usable?!? =)
[01:47:08] <dclarke> not yet
[01:47:18] <dclarke> but the plan is to get these untis to all the developers
[01:47:22] <dclarke> and then scrap the ODW
[01:47:29] <dclarke> and then keep moving forwards
[01:47:54] <steleman> that's a very cute box
[01:48:00] <sickness> this story about early pegasos always scared me: http://www.openbsd.org/pegasos.html
[01:48:15] <Error_e^ipi> oh, dclarke .... i'm not on the contributors list
[01:48:17] <sickness> I have also read the full mailing list thread about that, scary
[01:48:20] <Error_e^ipi> only you can add me
[01:48:21] <sickness> anyway
[01:48:35] <dclarke> oh .. I'll fix that ..
[01:48:39] * Error_e^ipi looks like a sad puppy
[01:48:40] <sickness> those cute new little boards seem so cool :)
[01:49:08] <dclarke> and real real small : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/micro-server/server_on_Sun_Blade_2500_02.png
[01:49:35] <dclarke> http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/micro-server/server_on_Sun_Blade_2500_01.png
[01:49:47] <Error_e^ipi> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=81794&#81794 <-- this list
[01:50:18] <dclarke> yeah .. I'll get you on the list
[01:50:26] * dclarke reaches for post it note
[01:50:37] <dclarke> its just .. I'm a tad stressed
[01:50:52] <dclarke> trying to study and get prepped for an interview tomorrow
[01:51:51] <dclarke> part of the reason being that I generally get the same repsonse all the time .. over qualified or some similar baloney
[01:52:08] <dclarke> or worse .. I get asked about the specific bit fields of TCPIP frames
[01:52:13] <dlg> dclarke: you could lie
[01:52:28] <dclarke> dlg : lie about TCPIP fields ?
[01:52:35] <dlg> no, the qualifications bit
[01:52:42] <dclarke> dlg : that wouldn't get me very far
[01:53:03] <dclarke> dlg : oh .. just flush a degree down the toilet and toss out a few history bits ? :-\
[01:53:06] <steleman> dclarke: gauge your "opponent" in the interview and if they seem easily threatened, play dumb.
[01:53:36] <dclarke> steleman :  well .. I'm past the HR phase and now moving into the engineering departments
[01:53:49] <dclarke> steleman :  so I may actually need to knwo something :-)
[01:53:53] <steleman> oh ok. HR is usually the worst
[01:54:11] <dclarke> I leanred from my last HR experience .. over a year ago .. that are wonks
[01:54:22] <dclarke> kiss ass and smile a lot and then talk with the engineers
[01:54:42] <dclarke> except the HR guy was real nice .. and not a wonk
[01:54:49] <steleman> HR interview is kind of like a bad date. you have to make the adversary talk.
[01:54:50] <dclarke> but he asked me three techie questions
[01:55:04] <dclarke> yeah .. true
[01:55:35] <dclarke> techie question number one .. what is the UNIX system call that returns an inode data structure ?
[01:55:56] <dclarke> anyone anyone ?
[01:55:59] <dclarke> Bueller ?
[01:56:02] <sickness> mmm
[01:56:11] <sickness> lemme gues, but I don't know anything about programming ghgh
[01:56:12] <dclarke> I kicked out stat()
[01:56:15] <sickness> inode_data()
[01:56:16] <sickness> ? :P
[01:56:17] <sickness> ghghgh
[01:56:26] <dlg> stat
[01:56:27] <dclarke> nope .. stat() or lstat() or fstat()
[01:56:34] <sickness> cool
[01:56:38] <dclarke> I nailed that one
[01:56:46] <dlg> he wanted all three?
[01:56:55] <galt> techie answer #1, if I have to fuck with the inode structure, my salary requirements have just doubled
[01:57:00] <dclarke> he was looking for two but I gave him three
[01:57:21] <dclarke> then I told him that ZFS may have other things going on that blow away the old UFS concepts
[01:57:26] <steleman> stat(2) returns an inode ?
[01:57:27] <dclarke> that sort of rocked them
[01:57:36] <jbk> yeah, the question seems poorly phrased
[01:57:41] <dlg> steleman: it returns a representation of it
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[01:58:48] <dclarke> int lstat(const  char  *restrict  path,  struct  stat  *res-
[01:58:49] <dclarke>      trictbuf);
[01:58:58] <dclarke> anyways .. it was a trick question I think
[01:59:10] <dclarke> I think its purpose was to send me screaming out the doot ..
[01:59:14] <dclarke> I think its purpose was to send me screaming out the door
[01:59:17] <dclarke> and I didn't
[01:59:20] <steleman> its a badly formed question which expects an incorrect answer. typical hr.
[01:59:22] <edwardocallaghan> Hi all
[01:59:37] <sickness> you rock, did you show them your filesystem stress test proggy? ;)
[01:59:43] <dclarke> steleman :  the guy didn't know what he was asking .. he had some canned answer on paper
[01:59:54] <dclarke> sickness :  no ..
[01:59:55] <edwardocallaghan> dclarke , steleman nice to see you both
[02:00:02] * dclarke waves
[02:00:15] <steleman> hiya edwardocallaghan :-)
[02:00:23] <sickness> dclarke: eheh :)
[02:00:32] <dclarke> what was the next question ?  Oh yes .. explain the sticky bit and what filesystem has the sticky bit ON by default ?
[02:00:42] <dclarke> I said /tmp and /var/tmp
[02:00:50] <dclarke> and asked which one did he want ?
[02:01:01] <edwardocallaghan> Always got to say Hi to the regulars
[02:01:44] <dclarke> in any case .. I talkedd about octal representation of security mode bits in Linux and UNIX and that went well
[02:01:55] <dclarke> what was the last question .. er ..
[02:02:40] <jbk> the mean air speed velocity of an unladen swallow? :)
[02:02:41] <dclarke> oh yes .. what was the standard for floating point representation used by all major processor after 1988
[02:02:56] <dclarke> an african swallow .. I think it was
[02:03:07] <dclarke> or was it after 1992 .. not sure
[02:03:15] <jmcp> dclarke: which org?
[02:03:16] <dclarke> I siad IEEE754 floating point
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[02:03:22] * jmcp nods
[02:03:34] <dclarke> like .. duh .. I know floating point
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[02:03:51] <dclarke> jmcp : which org ?   that big one
[02:03:58] <dclarke> jmcp : you know ..
[02:04:06] <jmcp> dclarke: giggle?
[02:04:15] <dclarke> jmcp : just guess .. who the heck else would I waste my time with
[02:04:21] <jmcp> yeah, figured as much
[02:04:22] <dclarke> yeah .. giggle
[02:04:27] <jmcp> from the questions as much as the other stuff you mentioned
[02:04:29] <jmcp> good luck
[02:04:31] <dclarke> I didn't even apply to them
[02:04:46] <jmcp> I think most people who get interviews there don't apply either
[02:04:46] <dclarke> they told me that they were recrutiing
[02:04:57] <dclarke> figures ..
[02:05:06] <dclarke> I have been reading about horror stories
[02:05:22] <dclarke> about the interview process and I started before Christmas
[02:05:51] <dclarke> regardless .. no way will I move to Mountain View Cali
[02:06:00] <jmcp> yeah... it's full of those crazy Californians
[02:06:08] <dclarke> cost of living is insane I hear
[02:06:15] <jbk> don't feel like spending 70% of your gross income on housing? :)
[02:06:22] <dclarke> a decent house is $1M
[02:06:38] <elektronkind> hey jmcp
[02:06:51] <jmcp> hi elektronkind
[02:06:52] <elektronkind> could I ask you to proof something for me? :)
[02:06:53] <dclarke> schools are probably a mess .. the kids would be seriously uprooted
[02:06:56] <jmcp> elektronkind: sure
[02:07:01] <elektronkind> jmcp: http://elektronkind.org/2007/01/solaris-10s-new-multipath-storage-tool-part-1
[02:07:08] <elektronkind> I'm writing something up on mpathadm
[02:07:11] <jmcp> sure
[02:07:14] <jmcp> urk
[02:07:16] * jmcp doesn't like mpathadm
[02:07:21] <elektronkind> but the first part just covers mpathing in general
[02:07:30] <dclarke> anyone else .. besides me .. have troubles with snv_55b ?
[02:07:37] <dclarke> the install is not going well
[02:08:20] <sickness> dclarke: heh, liveupgrade was fine for me, as usual, but on reboot, to my surprise, it was stook in the kvm thing asking for keyboard country selection (!!!)
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[02:08:21] * steleman sighs
[02:08:24] <richlowe> dclarke: which install?
[02:08:43] <dclarke> steleman :  be of good cheer .. good things ahead
[02:08:48] <sickness> dclarke: and indeed sshd was not running, so I had to go to the machine, power the monitor, and select US and then it went fine
[02:08:51] <dclarke> richlowe : AMD64
[02:08:57] <steleman> im still not over this 'stat returns an inode' thing
[02:09:18] <dclarke> okay .. it returns an inode struc
[02:09:25] <steleman> it returns an int :-)
[02:09:31] <jmcp> dclarke: not according to the stat(2) manpage it doesn't
[02:09:40] <jbk> it returns the data contained in an inode
[02:09:41] <dclarke> hold on a sec ..
[02:09:58] <steleman> if successful, it will fill in the contents of a stat structure with information pertaining to a file
[02:10:13] <steleman> and part of this information is the inode number
[02:10:27] <steleman> but if it fails it does not fill in anything useful in this structure
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[02:10:32] <dclarke> wow .. I bullshitted the HR guy with a wrong answer
[02:10:35] <steleman> (as in, if the file does not exist)
[02:10:37] <dclarke> well done to me :-)
[02:10:58] <dclarke> I talked about stat and lstat and  everything went swimmingly
[02:12:22] <jmcp> elektronkind: your c4/c5 and c6 scsi_vhci example isn't quite right
[02:12:44] <elektronkind> do tell
[02:12:49] <jmcp> dclarke: HR droid was probably listening for any variation on "stat" appearing in your answer
[02:13:17] <dclarke> great .. now I really feel like crap
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[02:13:19] <jmcp> elektronkind: your explanatory text above "ls -l /dev/rdsk/c6t600039300001546301000000D52ACC7Ed0*" doesn't match
[02:13:41] <dclarke> jmcp : which means that the engineering guys will roast me
[02:14:12] <jmcp> dclarke: so you can tell them that you're pretty darned sure if you want a "struct inode" returned, then you're making assumptions about the underlying filesystem which isn't necessarily a good idea
[02:14:19] <dclarke> I think that I'll focus on selling these new Genesi EFIKA units
[02:14:45] <dclarke> jmcp : its fuzzy to me but I talked about ZFS and the fact that the inode concept does not apply anymore
[02:14:54] <jmcp> elektronkind: you should be pointing out that the guid that's shown in the cfgadm output appears somewhere in the /dev/dsk/c6* path
[02:15:07] <elektronkind> ah yes
[02:15:10] <jmcp> elektronkind: apart from that, looks good
[02:15:13] <jmcp> I'm nitpicking, of course
[02:15:14] <dclarke> jmcp : and then waxed on about ext3fs and reiserfs and such things
[02:15:16] <elektronkind> cool, thanks
[02:15:21] <elektronkind> well it's good to be clear
[02:15:28] <jmcp> dclarke: doesn't data just go missing with reiserfs?
[02:15:46] <jbk> not missing, indefinatenly unavailable :)
[02:15:49] <elektronkind> thanks for the input. it took me a long time to figure out the scsi_vhci guid
[02:15:58] <edwardocallaghan> What's the deal with  reiserfs, I found it very slow
[02:16:03] <jmcp> elektronkind: if you want to get really picky, the guid is a globally unique id which is retrieved using a standard scsi inquiry for page83 data
[02:16:08] <dlg> edwardocallaghan: wrong channel
[02:16:11] <dclarke> richlowe :  hello ?
[02:16:19] <edwardocallaghan> And didn't the guy go mad?
[02:16:23] <edwardocallaghan> Oh sorry
[02:16:25] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: no, he didn't
[02:16:27] <Auralis> edwardocallaghan: overhyped salvation filesystem for linux
[02:16:32] <dclarke> richlowe :  I'll hook up my terminal here and give it another go
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[02:16:47] <elektronkind> jmcp: :) that may be a leeetle bit to propeller-headish for the audience ;)
[02:16:48] <dclarke> richlowe :  this will be a headless AMD64 system
[02:16:59] <jmcp> elektronkind: muahahaaha
[02:17:00] <elektronkind> s/to/too
[02:17:01] <Error_e^ipi> he didn't go mad, he just killed his wife
[02:17:51] <steleman> Error_e^IPI: OOM Killer :-)
[02:18:10] <Error_e^ipi> "allegedly"
[02:18:14] <jmcp> Error_e^ipi: he's *alleged* to have done that
[02:18:17] <jbk> but did he keep a journal?
[02:18:25] <Plaidrab> badabump
[02:18:34] <jbk> sorry, i couldn't resist :)
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[02:18:39] <Error_e^ipi> heh
[02:20:21] <dclarke> there will be a brief dropout in service as I vanish for a bit ..
[02:20:26] <dclarke> back soonish
[02:20:54] <jbk> though i think the everybody loves eric raymond comic was even worse
[02:21:31] <Error_e^ipi> why *does* ESR get the mindshare that he does?
[02:21:43] <jbk> no idea
[02:21:46] <jbk> but the comic is amusing
[02:21:51] <Error_e^ipi> aside from fetchmail.... which is little more than a hacky perl script, what has he ever done?
[02:21:54] <steleman> Error: he had a good one-liner back in 1998
[02:21:55] <Plaidrab> Crazy people attract cultists?
[02:22:16] <edwardocallaghan> Edward wonders about a question on SPARCs
[02:22:50] <Plaidrab> Shoot
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[02:23:10] <edwardocallaghan> When will SPARC's have the 'maths power' of a AMD/Intel for Mathematica ect...
[02:23:18] <Plaidrab> Never.
[02:23:22] <Plaidrab> Not a design goal.
[02:23:31] <jbk> most people don't need that
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[02:23:55] <Plaidrab> Though maybe some folks will find ways to misuse the crypto bits to help there
[02:23:57] <edwardocallaghan> What HPC's ?
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[02:24:59] <Error_e^ipi> what about HPC?
[02:25:00] <dlg> edwardocallaghan: hpc isnt a huge group
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[02:25:21] <elektronkind> HPC is dominated by x86/x64.
[02:25:36] <elektronkind> all COTS math apps are generally linux/x86 anyway
[02:26:04] <elektronkind> with a the big ones (mathematic, MATLAB) either getting solaris x86 support, or already has it.
[02:26:13] <elektronkind> er mathematica
[02:26:24] <Error_e^ipi> mathematica only has solaris/SPARC last i checked
[02:26:31] <edwardocallaghan> They run on SPARC as well
[02:26:42] <jbk> and probably not enough money in it to try to make sparc competitive there, when they can just sell amd boxes
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[02:26:45] <edwardocallaghan> I think it runs on Solaris x86
[02:26:51] <edwardocallaghan> I am sure of it
[02:26:58] <elektronkind> wolfram research ported mathematica to solaris x86 last year iirc
[02:27:05] <Error_e^ipi> okie
[02:27:18] <Error_e^ipi> ah, so they did
[02:27:29] <elektronkind> MATLAB for x86 is forthcoming supposedly with version 2007a
[02:27:44] <elektronkind> but yeah, both have run on sparc for a long time.
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[02:28:01] <jmcp> I just wish Matlab and Mathematica were affordable
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[02:28:15] <edwardocallaghan> If SPARC is so bad in that area why do they run on it
[02:28:17] <DivineEntity> does anyone know how I can output the system temperature on a sun enterprise 420R ?
[02:28:31] <Error_e^ipi> hmm... no maple on solaris
[02:28:38] <Error_e^ipi> drats... lousy nationalism
[02:28:44] <edwardocallaghan> I don't like maple
[02:28:53] <Error_e^ipi> my school requires it's use
[02:29:04] <Error_e^ipi> hence the "lousy nationalism" comment
[02:29:55] <Auralis> DivineEntity: prtdiag -v
[02:30:31] <dclarke> okay ..
[02:30:35] <dclarke> making progress again
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[02:31:51] <richlowe> prtpicl -vc temperature-sensor, most likely
[02:32:00] <richlowe> if you have a prtdiag new enough to not give you real temps, but just "ok"
[02:32:40] <dclarke> http://rafb.net/p/3MexUT24.nln.html
[02:32:44] <delewis> E420R doesn't have temp sensors, IIRC.
[02:32:49] <delewis> I know the Ultra 80 doesn't.
[02:32:56] <dclarke> richlowe : I have the ttya console in front of me
[02:32:57] * richlowe returns to the endevour of creating desk space
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[02:33:18] <dclarke> richlowe : deskspace ... ?  that's just nuts
[02:33:19] <jmcp> might also need an obp upgrade, not totally sure
[02:33:41] <edwardocallaghan> Elektronkind:Cool mixes
[02:33:43] <dclarke> richlowe : where am I supposed to keep all these coke cans, screw drivers, spare change and piles of crud ?
[02:33:44] <dlg> does an i2c controller appear in ofw?
[02:33:57] <richlowe> dclarke: on the desk, rather than my current "on top of everything else on the desk" solution.
[02:34:06] * dclarke smiles like an idiot .. looks like the ESC key works via tip
[02:34:12] <elektronkind> edwardocallaghan: heh thanks. dj'ing is what I do when they let me out of my office.
[02:34:22] <richlowe> you clear the desk when it becomes hard to reach the top of the stuff piled on it, while still remaining seated.
[02:34:40] <DivineEntity> bummer, yeah when I do a /usr/platform/`uname -i`/sbin/prtdiag -v  it shoudl list the temp .. but doesn't must be no sensor
[02:34:43] <DivineEntity> oh well
[02:34:46] <elektronkind> dj'ing... where I can be both social and antisocial at the same time.
[02:34:48] <dclarke> richlowe : um .. based on that criterion .. I really need to clear my desk
[02:34:49] <edwardocallaghan> I did some but I don't have enoth time :p or money at that
[02:35:57] <edwardocallaghan> You like Astronomy as well ?
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[02:37:17] <edwardocallaghan> I see you have some nice CDJ1000's there ;)
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[02:37:47] <jmcp> dlg: some do
[02:38:03] <dclarke> richlowe : a "real" sysadmin's desk == http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/desk.jpg
[02:38:20] <dlg> jmcp: on the 420r i mean
[02:38:27] <jmcp> dlg: uh .... dunno
[02:38:30] <jbk> haha
[02:38:36] * dlg knows they appear on soem machines
[02:38:45] <delewis> dlg, not on an E420R -- I'm fairly sure.
[02:38:50] <dlg> i wrote a driver for the one on the t1 105
[02:38:55] <delewis> Ultra 80s don't have it, and an E420R uses the same board as an Ultra 80 does.
[02:38:59] <dlg> which sort of works on machines with bbc as well
[02:39:10] <bbtm> dclarke: My neck would be killing me on that.
[02:39:24] <darkcmd> dclarke, nice pizza
[02:40:04] <jbk> my desk used to be real bad
[02:40:09] <dclarke> have a bigger slice : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/desk_lg.jpg
[02:40:29] <dclarke> bbtm : what do you mean .. your neck would be killing you .. thats at perfect eye height for me
[02:41:12] <dclarke> quick .. someone give me a hostname !
[02:41:23] <dclarke> Host name for bge0 :
[02:41:24] <jbk> elbonia
[02:41:27] <Error_e^ipi> xenophanes
[02:41:31] <edwardocallaghan> Is that Fedora running on that screen ?
[02:41:32] <dclarke> A host name can only contain letters, digits, and minus signs (-).
[02:41:37] * dclarke erk ..
[02:41:41] <jmcp> dlg: which i2c chip is in the t1 105?
[02:41:45] <dclarke> indeed it was
[02:41:54] <dclarke> elbonia ?
[02:42:05] <dclarke> elbonia for a dual opteron based snv_55b machine ?
[02:42:07] <Error_e^ipi> anaximines
[02:42:22] * dclarke I can't bloody speel that
[02:42:30] <Error_e^ipi> thales then
[02:42:40] <dclarke> thales ?
[02:42:41] <dclarke> I like it
[02:42:46] <dclarke> what is it ? :-)
[02:42:53] <Error_e^ipi> first western philosopher
[02:43:06] <jbk> actually in another channel, someone was talking about using humorous names of UN secretiaries as a host theme
[02:43:09] <Error_e^ipi> i named my cat after his birth city ( miletus )
[02:43:19] <dclarke> it just got named thales
[02:43:27] <dclarke> if the install doesn't lock up
[02:43:46] <edwardocallaghan>  dclarke:What's the news on some server time for a site ?
[02:44:18] <dclarke> edwardocallaghan :  soon ?
[02:44:19] <edwardocallaghan> For the GUI front end to Blastware
[02:44:30] <edwardocallaghan> OK
[02:44:43] <edwardocallaghan> You still got my email right ?
[02:44:47] <dclarke> sorry .. I have been remiss
[02:44:51] <dclarke> I have it
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[02:44:59] * dclarke thinks "somewhere"
[02:45:02] <Error_e^ipi> hey lloy0076
[02:45:16] <dlg> jmcp: pcf8584
[02:45:19] <lloy0076> Howdy!
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[02:45:35] <dclarke> this bugs me ...
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[02:45:36] <lloy0076> I just managed to "recover" from something stupid I did.
[02:45:41] <lloy0076> Here's what I did:
[02:45:47] <dclarke> NFSv4 Domain Configuration
[02:45:48] <dclarke>       [X] Use the NFSv4 domain derived by the system
[02:45:50] <dclarke>       [ ] Specify a different NFSv4 domain
[02:45:53] <lloy0076> 1. Install a "small-zone" which inherits from the Global zone
[02:46:04] <lloy0076> 2. Install "blastwave" and then "pkg-get -i eclipse"
[02:46:07] <dclarke> NFSv4 Domain Name:  << Value to be derived dynamically >>
[02:46:20] <lloy0076> 3. Say "yes" even though it says there are conflicts with the small-zone all the time
[02:46:28] <lloy0076> 4. Result: get a system where GNOME crashes
[02:46:29] * lloy0076 sigh
[02:46:42] <lloy0076> I've gotten rid of the "small-zone" and I'm back in Gnome again.
[02:46:56] <dclarke> lloy0076 :  the GNOME from Blastwave is the issue
[02:47:03] <Error_e^ipi> gnome in a zone?
[02:47:03] <edwardocallaghan> Why is Solaris Gnome is old ?
[02:47:04] <dclarke> lloy0076 :  its being fixed
[02:47:04] <Error_e^ipi> why?
[02:47:11] <lloy0076> dclarke: Ok.
[02:47:18] <jmcp> dlg: is the pcf8584 all that different to what's already there in usr/src/uts/sun4u/io/i2c/clients/pcf8574.c?
[02:47:21] <dclarke> I'm the hold up .. I have not released it yet
[02:47:21] <lloy0076> dclarke: It just bit me in the bum.
[02:47:23] <Error_e^ipi> i don't have any gui nonsense running on my zones
[02:47:24] <Gman> edwardocallaghan, hrm?
[02:47:41] <dlg> jmcp: solaris already has a working driver for it
[02:47:52] <jmcp> dlg: more re-implementation joy?
[02:48:01] <dlg> the way they deal with all the variants of it accross different implementations makes my head hurt
[02:48:14] <dlg> jmcp: no, there was nothing in that other os i like working on
[02:48:17] <edwardocallaghan> Everything seems so big in Solaris Gnome and takes up too much of my screen
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[02:48:19] <lloy0076> Ok, so the reason why my machine at home hasn't carked it is because my Solaris Zone has a heap of "don't inherit those directories" in it.
[02:48:30] <dclarke> lloy0076 :  my desktop : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/GNOME/gnome_2.16.2.png
[02:48:39] <dclarke> that's GNOME 2.16.2
[02:48:50] <dclarke> pretty damn up to date
[02:49:06] <lloy0076> I have 2.16.1 running quite nicely.
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[02:49:20] <dclarke> on Solaris ?
[02:49:23] <lloy0076> dclarke: I think you meant that message for edwardocallaghan :(
[02:49:29] <lloy0076> dclarke: Yes, on Solaris.
[02:49:43] <lloy0076> dclarke: It's what came with the disk that had ON53 on it...(DVD)
[02:49:46] <dclarke> well done
[02:49:55] <dclarke> oh .. Nevada
[02:50:06] <dclarke> the picture that I'm showing you is on Solaris 8
[02:50:13] <lloy0076> dclarke: Ah, that makes sense.
[02:50:32] <edwardocallaghan> The icon set is old school
[02:50:41] <dclarke> before I get too far .. are the languages/locales in the snv_b55b DVD images ?
[02:50:42] * lloy0076 thinks he needs to go back to taking anti-inflammatories.
[02:50:53] <jmcp> dclarke: yes
[02:50:58] <dclarke> wonderful
[02:51:04] <dclarke> I can install french then
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[02:51:16] <jmcp> I installed snv_55b last friday with all the Asian locales without any problems
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[02:51:17] <lloy0076> dclarke: You could even speak Greek if you wanted...
[02:51:18] * lloy0076 smirks
[02:51:29] <dclarke> lloy0076 :  I want gernam also
[02:51:35] <edwardocallaghan> I don't really know as much Gnome tweaking as I do for KDE but Fedora's Gnome seems more up to date with its icons ect...
[02:51:35] <dclarke> German
[02:52:06] <Gman> edwardocallaghan, fedora uses a different icon theme set
[02:52:09] <lloy0076> edwardocallaghan: I daresay once one gets Gnome to run on (one of the Solaris based distros), then you can install any old icon set that compies with Gnome.
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[02:52:56] <edwardocallaghan> I know but by default does no one want to spice up Solaris?
[02:53:17] <edwardocallaghan> Why are all the tool bars so big in Solaris ect... ?
[02:53:25] <edwardocallaghan> Like its at a low res ?
[02:53:37] <Gman> edwardocallaghan, solaris [nevada] has a new icon theme too, called 'nimbus'
[02:53:50] <richlowe> which doesn't scale right if you switch GTK themes. ;)
[02:54:03] <Gman> doesn't?
[02:54:15] <richlowe> Gman: switch GTK theme (I'm on clearlooks, iirc, or industrial), right click on desktop
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[02:54:20] <richlowe> Gman: witness size of Help icon.
[02:54:25] <richlowe> (ditto for gedit menus, etc, etc)
[02:54:46] <richlowe> there's 6501556 too.
[02:54:53] <Gman> looks like a bug
[02:55:02] <richlowe> I filed this one, too, but bugster ate it and I got so sick of dealing with that shit I didn't refile.
[02:55:21] <richlowe> actually, BT may have accepted it, but I didn't get a notification...
[02:55:22] <richlowe> so.
[02:55:31] <delewis> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=365326719&size=l <--- current state of my desk :-(
[02:55:49] <delewis> note the abundance of coke cans in the trash can, which was my attempt to "clean it up" a bit before taking the picture.
[02:55:54] <delewis> obviously, I failed.
[02:56:05] <dclarke> delewis :  that is the cleanest desk ever
[02:56:06] <jbk> heh
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[02:56:15] <jbk> i have an older picture of mine, it's rather bad
[02:58:08] <delewis> I found out the hard way that gtkam in Solaris 10 doesn't have support for my camera.
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[02:58:13] <jmcp> same here
[02:58:20] <jmcp> eos400D / digital rebel xti
[02:58:27] <delewis> so I had to turn on my Windows workstation and pull the picture off the camera.
[02:58:42] <delewis> jmcp, what about Nevada?
[02:58:53] <lloy0076> Quantum Mechanics eh?
[02:58:54] <delewis> (mine works in Nevada, but I don't have a Nevada installation anywhere at the moment)
[02:59:09] <jmcp> delewis: that's what I run
[02:59:14] <jmcp> it's not there on 49 or 51
[02:59:19] <delewis> lloy0076, minoring in Physics for my B.Sc.
[02:59:45] <Gman> delewis, hrm, that's somewhat surprising
[02:59:56] <Gman> oh, solaris 10 - jmcp checked nevada?
[03:00:02] <jmcp> Gman: that's what I run
[03:00:02] <edwardocallaghan> I am going to get a EOS 400 D as well
[03:00:07] <jmcp> the camera is too new, apparently
[03:00:18] <delewis> I just have a cheap Kodak C340
[03:00:25] <edwardocallaghan> What do tou mean ?
[03:00:30] <delewis> nothing spectacular, but I figured last year it was finally time to purchase a digital camera.
[03:00:40] <edwardocallaghan> %s/tou/you/
[03:00:51] <dclarke> if I took a pic of this desk .. you would scream
[03:00:56] <edwardocallaghan> Will it not work on Solaris ?
[03:01:06] <kimc> canon 10d here
[03:01:07] <dclarke> its a mess in which layers of things seem to have stratified
[03:01:16] <edwardocallaghan> dclarke:Nice SB1000
[03:01:23] <Gman> jmcp, http://gphoto.sourceforge.net/proj/libgphoto2/support.php
[03:01:24] <jmcp> kimc: I'm envious
[03:01:25] <Gman> should be supported
[03:01:26] <dclarke> SB2500 Silver actually
[03:01:38] <Gman> jmcp, might be a case of needing to update libgphoto
[03:01:40] <boyd> Afternoon, all
[03:01:41] <jmcp> ah, they've updated
[03:01:44] <jmcp> hi boyd
[03:01:47] <jmcp> Gman: thanks for the pointer
[03:02:06] <dclarke> arghhh !!
[03:02:09] <dclarke> ah ha !
[03:02:12] <dclarke> ahhhh haaa !!
[03:02:14] <edwardocallaghan> SB2500 !?
[03:02:15] <jmcp> Gman: yeah
[03:02:23] <edwardocallaghan> What's the spec ?
[03:02:24] <boyd> dclarke: I know what you mean
[03:02:29] <Error_e^ipi> i think dclarke just lost his mind
[03:02:40] <edwardocallaghan> boyd: Hi I did not see you there
[03:02:44] <edwardocallaghan> Welcome ...
[03:02:45] <delewis> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=297718558&size=o ... and the other side of the room.
[03:02:45] <dclarke> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=365326719&size=l  I see Voyager DVDs !
[03:02:46] <boyd> Hey edwardocallaghan
[03:02:51] <delewis> dclarke, yeah :-)
[03:02:56] <delewis> I've got the whole set.
[03:03:00] <dclarke> me too
[03:03:02] <delewis> that, TNG, and DS9.
[03:03:05] * dclarke thinks geek
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[03:03:34] <dclarke> and .. a book on Quantum Mechanics ?!?
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[03:03:44] <dclarke> Rich Teer's book .. yes .. I get that
[03:03:54] <dclarke> but .. Quantum Mechanics ..
[03:03:57] <dclarke> wild
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[03:03:59] <Error_e^ipi> does anyone *not* own a copy of rich teer's book?
[03:04:00] <delewis> Solaris Internals is under it if you look really, really closely. :-)
[03:04:23] <jmcp> Gman: can I just copy updated gphoto* from snv_55b to my snv_49 box and have it work?
[03:04:29] * jmcp feels a little clueless re userland stuff
[03:04:36] <Gman> jmcp, probably
[03:04:41] <jmcp> cool
[03:04:43] * jmcp tries ....
[03:04:45] <Gman> doubt the dependency stack has changed
[03:04:50] <Gman> [maybe back up first of all]
[03:04:56] <dclarke> gotta go make coffee .. be back shortly
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[03:05:56] * steleman notices that Xorg has reached Oprah state again
[03:06:13] <jmcp> it's not a core app or feature so I'm not too worried about backingup the files
[03:06:24] <delewis> steleman, what? bloated? :-)
[03:06:31] <steleman> delewis: yes
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[03:06:37] <boyd> dclarke: Your post uses too much disk space and time: http://quidocet.blogspot.com/2006/12/concatenating-dvd-iso-parts-for-solaris.html
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[03:07:33] <delewis> hmm, pity.
[03:07:45] <Error_e^ipi> is there plans to finally get off the dead xorg 6.x tree?
[03:07:47] <delewis> UltraSPARC-II seems to be a bit limited on the quantity of hardware counters..
[03:08:03] <delewis> compared to UltraSPARC-III, that is.
[03:08:03] <Gman> Error_e^ipi, alanc's working on it - it's going to take time
[03:08:33] <steleman> 684MB and counting ...
[03:09:04] <delewis> steleman, SIZE?
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[03:09:41] <Error_e^ipi> okie, cool
[03:09:51] <jmcp> Gman: duh .. I need hal as well
[03:09:54] <jmcp> :(
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[03:10:19] <Gman> jmcp, bugger, you're screwed then
[03:10:19] <lloy0076> Are Sun Enterprise servers *really noisy*?
[03:10:28] * jmcp tries the laptop
[03:10:29] <delewis> lloy0076, that's a pretty wide-range of hardware.
[03:10:34] <delewis> everything from an E250 to an E10000.
[03:10:48] <richlowe> mostly, "yes".
[03:11:15] <delewis> my A5200 is actually louder than my E4500 if that says anything :-)
[03:11:16] <lloy0076> I'm trying to sense whether one could cope using one as a desktop machine in the same room...
[03:11:19] <dclarke> lloy0076 :  not as noisey as new Opteron gear
[03:11:24] <delewis> lloy0076, I do :-)
[03:11:31] <dclarke> lloy0076 :  but a V880 will inhale your cat
[03:11:38] <delewis> I've got a pSeries p640, Ultra 2, E4500 /w A5200, and SB1000 in the same room :-(
[03:11:39] <lloy0076> I've got my AMD X2's fans set to very silent. I mostly can't hear it.
[03:11:55] <delewis> then again, I have a high tolerance for computer noise.
[03:11:59] <dclarke> lloy0076 :  I have an older Opteron here and it screams
[03:12:11] <dclarke> and .. I have permanent hearing damage
[03:12:14] <Auralis> lloy0076: i would not use a enterprise anything in the same room as desktop for pronlonged periods of times
[03:12:17] <dclarke> so .. no problem for me
[03:12:27] <lloy0076> *hmmm*
[03:12:37] <lloy0076> I knew I had a 3BR house all to myself for a reason :P
[03:12:38] <dclarke> the new Ultra 20 is real real quiet
[03:12:59] <Auralis> actually, my e4000 is decent, it has a very deep sound
[03:13:04] <delewis> E280Rs and E420Rs are pretty quiet.
[03:13:21] <dclarke> E280R is not quiet
[03:13:31] <dclarke> in what world do you think a 280R is quiet ?
[03:13:40] <delewis> dclarke, does the cooling differ from an SB1000 or SB2000?
[03:13:52] <delewis> surely, the extra PSU wouldn't add that much noise.
[03:13:53] <dclarke> definately
[03:14:02] <delewis> ah, in that case nevermind :-)
[03:14:07] <Auralis> sb2000 seems even quieter then the 1000
[03:14:14] <delewis> Auralis, interesting.
[03:14:21] <richlowe> they have different cooling, iirc.
[03:14:21] <dclarke> well ... I have spent a LOT of time with V440's and 280R gear and they are noisey in my opinion
[03:14:25] <richlowe> despite the frequent argument in here.
[03:14:27] <delewis> the SB2000 has a different cooling setup, though.
[03:14:41] <delewis> in order to cool the faster procs.
[03:14:46] <Auralis> or maybe thats because my blade is running constantly and all the 2000er i had where brand new setups at customer sites :)
[03:15:11] <richlowe> deep fan noise isn't nearly as bad as a high pitched whine.
[03:15:18] <dclarke> yep
[03:15:20] <richlowe> I have no science to back that up, just preference.
[03:15:22] <delewis> still doesn't compare to an A5200 /w 22 disks spinning at 10,000 RPM..
[03:15:29] <dclarke> I have experience
[03:15:32] <richlowe> it's the difference between barry white and kate bush. ;)
[03:15:37] <Auralis> yeah, my a5200 is loud as crap
[03:15:48] <jmcp> Gman: the version that's in snv_55b still doesn't support the eos400d :(
[03:15:48] <delewis> Auralis, 3 PSUs, I'm guessing, too?
[03:15:48] <dclarke> and a V20z or worse .. a V40z will drive you insane in five hours
[03:15:49] <boyd> richlowe: celine dion
[03:15:49] * jmcp shrugs
[03:15:52] <jmcp> I'll just wait a bit longer
[03:16:03] <hile_> ugh.
[03:16:10] <Auralis> but a X1 is the real kind, its so freling high pitched loud, i sold mine because i could it hear through two closed doors
[03:16:11] <hile_> ugh v20z
[03:16:21] <dclarke> kate bush .. wow .. she could break glass
[03:16:22] <Auralis> delewis: of course 3 :)
[03:16:22] <hile_> does the 4100 suck so badly in the noise department?
[03:16:34] <jmcp> hi hile_
[03:16:35] <dclarke> or Bjork .. a voice like an ice pick
[03:17:48] <Error_e^ipi> bjork is quite clearly insane
[03:18:23] <Gman> jmcp, hrm, going to have to wait a few builds then unless you roll your own
[03:18:29] <Gman> jmcp, our latest gnome 2.17/jds trunk stuff has it
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[03:19:10] <dclarke> I have not heard anything by Bjork in a long long time
[03:19:21] <dclarke> or for that matter .. Kate Bush
[03:20:04] <dclarke> gotta go chase down caffiene ..
[03:22:16] <edwardocallaghan> Good night ...
[03:22:39] <Error_e^ipi> are any of the regs here from vancouver?
[03:23:19] <jmcp> Gman: which vermillion build do you expect 2.17 to be in?
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[03:25:00] * richlowe triumphs
[03:25:05] <richlowe> I can see the top of my desk again!
[03:25:14] <Error_e^ipi> heh
[03:25:16] <Error_e^ipi> victory
[03:25:27] <jmcp> richlowe: don't worry, it's only fleeting
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[03:29:06] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Tpenta
[03:29:51] <lloy0076> What's the command to find out cpu info? I can't remember it...
[03:30:16] <jbk> psrinfo ?
[03:30:27] <lloy0076> jbk: Thanks.
[03:30:40] <jbk> np
[03:30:41] <lloy0076> I knew it p something info :(
[03:31:13] <alanc_away> Error_e^ipi: working on Xorg 7.2 - current target is nv_58 for the X server and drivers
[03:31:20] <alanc_away> a couple of libraries are already converted
[03:31:29] <alanc_away> the rest, and the bulk of the commands, will come later
[03:31:34] * lloy0076 wonders if an AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ with the 2x1MB L2 caches would make a difference...
[03:32:01] * alanc_away goes back to not paying attention
[03:32:08] <lloy0076> I have an AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ with 2x512KB L2 caches
[03:32:50] <dclarke> the real question on my mind is "when will UltraSparc II be dropped?"
[03:33:18] <Tekni> anyone heard of Xyratex?
[03:33:33] <dclarke> Xyratex .. never
[03:33:37] <Tekni> http://www.xyratex.com/products/storage-systems/storage-4200J.asp
[03:33:38] <delewis> dclarke, hopefully not any time soon. :-(
[03:33:49] <dclarke> delewis :  why ?
[03:33:50] <delewis> most UltraSPARC-II hardware still performs quite well.
[03:33:51] <Tekni> this seems to be the dumb fc<->sata jbod i've been looking for
[03:34:00] <dclarke> delewis :  wha ?
[03:34:15] <dclarke> delewis :  are you kidding ?
[03:34:45] <dclarke> delewis :  I think an early 750 MHz US-III is okay
[03:34:48] <Tekni> dclarke: it does with the right application(s) :)
[03:34:56] <dclarke> oh paleez ...
[03:35:06] <dclarke> those are the same apps that run on US-III
[03:35:13] <Error_e^ipi> dclarke: i'd be happy with such a machine
[03:35:14] <Error_e^ipi> *shrug*
[03:35:15] <dclarke> US-II tops out at 480 MHz
[03:35:22] <Error_e^ipi> 750Mhz isn't that slow
[03:35:33] <dclarke> and the 480 MHz only goes in the E450 and a few other big clunkers
[03:35:36] <Tekni> netra t1's still make great dns servers, shell machines, etc.
[03:35:38] <Error_e^ipi> probably not great for video compositing or whatever, but still perfectly useable
[03:35:43] <boyd> dclarke: The SB100 had a IIi at 500 IIRC
[03:35:56] <dclarke> 750 MHz is dog slow compared to _everything_ that Intel and IBM are going with
[03:35:59] <delewis> dclarke, it's conceivable that a US-II could out-perform early US-IIIs with a memory-intensive application that's capable of utilizing multiple page sizes.
[03:36:07] <delewis> the MMU in early UltraSPARC-IIIs is quite limited.
[03:36:33] <dclarke> well .. let me look at my calendar
[03:36:40] <dclarke> yep .. it says 2007 there
[03:36:54] <delewis> dclarke, it just goes to show how long SPARC hardware remains usable.
[03:36:57] <dclarke> the UltraSparc 480 was last shipped whan ?
[03:37:04] <dclarke> it susable .. yes
[03:37:07] <dclarke> useable
[03:37:12] <dclarke> competitive .. no
[03:37:15] <dclarke> not even close
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[03:37:41] <dclarke> hello Ken
[03:38:04] <dclarke> personally I am giving up on sun4m entreily
[03:38:15] <dclarke> and US-II should be just dropped also
[03:38:18] <delewis> dclarke, can't say I really agree. My university could replace a huge portion of their infrastructure with a single E4500 that runs around $600 on eBay.
[03:38:27] <delewis> dclarke, there are no architectural reasons why UltraSPARC-II should be dropped
[03:38:32] <delewis> unlike sun4m and UltraSPARC-I.
[03:38:42] <dclarke> delewis :  thats old used equipment
[03:38:57] <delewis> dclarke, that still has a perfectly good use and can handle a decent load.
[03:39:03] <elektronkind> 480's not a bad box for backend tasks. It's pretty bad in terms of how much power it eats, though.
[03:39:12] <dclarke> delewis :  yes .. its cheap and will never die .. hooray
[03:39:45] <dclarke> delewis :  but I think that all emotion should be droped and one needs to look at these old clunkers for what they are
[03:39:48] <delewis> I suspect it would be more work to remove the UltraSPARC-II bits from the code than it would be to maintain them in the future
[03:39:54] <delewis> presuming no architectural limitations crop up in the future.
[03:39:57] <dclarke> delewis :  old clunkers that eat power like a fridge
[03:40:08] <delewis> the UltraSPARC-II MMU suffers from the same limitations that the current AMD64 MMUs suffer from.
[03:40:21] <delewis> dclarke, I think you are thinking with a peecee mentality.
[03:40:23] <dclarke> delewis :  remove nothing .. change nothing .. just drop support and move forwards
[03:40:42] <dclarke> delewis :  I have been accused of a lot of stuff .. but never a peecee mentality
[03:41:03] <dclarke> delewis :  a decent V240 will replace that E4500 and its just 2U in the rack
[03:41:35] <delewis> dclarke, I suspect otherwise. On a sufficiently multi-threaded task an E4500 would blow it away (presuming a decent configuration).
[03:41:36] <dclarke> delewis :  and a V490 or V890 will support thousands of users
[03:41:37] <Auralis> depends on the application
[03:41:49] <delewis> and the E4500 has far more HA features than a V240 is
[03:41:52] <delewis> and is currently cheaper.
[03:42:03] <dclarke> yep .. its a nice old brick
[03:42:11] <dclarke> a real nice heater also
[03:42:25] <dclarke> with 14 CPUs it can chew a lot of tasks
[03:42:26] <delewis> my university isn't a large one and we usually get hand-me-downs from local corporations, so an E4500 would be within out status quo.
[03:42:41] <delewis> s/out/the/
[03:42:48] <dclarke> I thought you have big fast IBM POWER gear ?
[03:43:03] <delewis> that was at the hospital here
[03:43:20] <delewis> not this particular university.
[03:43:31] <dclarke> oooh
[03:43:51] <dclarke> I know of a uni up here that just bought a maxxed out 4900
[03:44:00] <dclarke> some monster of a box
[03:44:05] <jbk> heh
[03:44:19] <dclarke> well .. I think the 4900 is a monster
[03:44:22] * boyd wonders about modular boxes that people buy already maxxed out
[03:44:27] <delewis> well, this is a small, liberal arts university. 70% of the students are majoring in a non-science-related field.
[03:44:45] <dclarke> Solaris 11 software installation succeeded
[03:44:53] <dclarke> ummm
[03:44:56] <dclarke> new problem here
[03:45:10] <dclarke> I just install snv_b55 and how will it reboot to the ttya ?
[03:45:13] <dclarke> by default ?
[03:45:25] <boyd> ... although he's seen a few customers here buying fresh new completely maxed out e25ks simply because that's as big as they can get ATM
[03:45:35] <boyd> dclarke: On what HW?
[03:45:47] <dclarke> greybox AMD64 gear
[03:46:03] <Gman> jmcp, not entirely sure - won't be before 2.17 becomes 2.18 at the very least
[03:46:14] <dclarke> since I am installing headless I hope that GRUB is set to reboot to ttya
[03:46:19] <boyd> dclarke: You may need to edit grub entries.
[03:46:22] <boyd> Ah
[03:46:31] <dclarke> that will be tough
[03:46:32] <boyd> How did you start the installer headless?
[03:46:42] <dclarke> boot the DVD
[03:46:47] <dclarke> select ttya install
[03:46:57] <dclarke> via .. yes .. keyboard and monitor
[03:47:06] <boyd> okaaay...
[03:47:07] <dclarke> one sec .. gotta jump here
[03:49:03] <galt> can't you do a ttya install without KVM?!
[03:52:03] <dclarke> I don't have a KVM
[03:52:25] <dclarke> anyways .. she is booting fine
[03:53:50] <richlowe> if the machine in question is either sparc (duh), or will do console redirection at the BIOS level, sure you can.
[03:53:50] <dclarke> via ttya here
[03:53:50] <richlowe> if not, you suffer for your hardware choice.
[03:53:50] <boyd> Does anyone know if 4521995 (Bunnahabhain, Descriptive Name Support in SVM) made it into s10u3?
[03:53:50] <dclarke> I wanted to try out some greybox AMD Opteron gear
[03:53:51] <dclarke> sort of my way of saying .. see!  it runs on anything
[03:53:51] <dclarke> and it does
[03:53:51] <dclarke> but .. during the bootloader ( GRUB ) phase I had to catch it and modify the boot line
[03:53:51] <dclarke> blah blah blah kernel/amd64/unix -srv console=ttya
[03:54:03] <dclarke> I did the -srv just to be verbose
[03:54:38] <jbk> :)
[03:54:47] * boyd notices that b55b includes a document that says "Welcome to Solaris? Express, Developer Edition"
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[03:55:24] <dclarke> http://rafb.net/p/COTjZW99.nln.html
[03:55:42] <dclarke> Unused kernel arguments: `console=ttya'. ???
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[03:56:24] <steleman> oh great. shawn walker crawled from under some rock and started posting.
[03:56:36] <Gman> yay!
[03:56:37] <dclarke> thats odd .. seeing as how .. its booting and running with its console at ttya
[03:56:46] <dclarke> shawn walker ?
[03:56:51] <Gman> binarycrusader
[03:56:58] <steleman> yeah.
[03:57:00] <dclarke> steleman :  oh .. yeah ..
[03:57:14] <steleman> eenie meenie miney moe
[03:57:18] <dclarke> ah yes .. the dreaded KDE thread
[03:57:20] <steleman> do i post the URL or do i not ?
[03:57:29] <dclarke> bloody hell .. let's just dop it and stop talking
[03:57:32] <steleman> temptation ...
[03:57:36] <dclarke> bloody hell .. let's just do KDE and stop talking
[03:57:47] <steleman> dclarke: ive been a very good boy.
[03:57:52] <steleman> i have not flamed anyone.
[03:57:58] <dclarke> you have
[03:58:03] <dclarke> tis very vrey true
[03:58:40] <jmcp> steleman: no, don't
[03:58:49] <steleman> jmpc: i wont.
[03:58:49] <dclarke> anyone know why Solaris takes so freakishly long to boot on the first pass ?
[03:58:57] <Error_e^ipi> reconfigure boot?
[03:59:00] <jmcp> steleman: you don't need the extra bloodpressure meds :)
[03:59:05] <delewis> dclarke, SMF service initialization.
[03:59:09] <dclarke> Loading smf(5) service descriptions: 104/150
[03:59:12] <steleman> jmcp: :-)
[03:59:17] <dclarke> yeah .. its a real drag to watch
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[04:00:34] <dclarke> ooh .. new bacula released for testing .. good to knwo
[04:01:20] <dclarke> and libgcrypt-1.2.3,REV=2007.01.21-SunOS5.8-sparc-CSW.pkg.gz
[04:01:47] <dclarke> wow .. busy day ... seamonkey-1.1 also
[04:02:41] <galt> dclarke, hey, at least yours didn't start out with a yawner-boot, like my SB100 does.  you can literally cook a meal and eat it during the first boot
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[04:03:05] <dclarke> galt : this is a decently fast machine
[04:03:22] <dclarke> its made by cellestica really and not a bottom basement unit
[04:03:36] <dclarke> dual AMD 248 with 4GB RAM
[04:03:40] <darkcmd> does anyone have a sun mouse pad they can sell me?
[04:03:46] <dclarke> sell ?
[04:04:00] <galt> I think I got a few of the morrors from the sun2/3 optical mice
[04:04:01] <Error_e^ipi> i could acquire some from school
[04:04:05] <hile_> that kind of thing we'd give away
[04:04:06] <dclarke> geez .. if I could get to the UPS place on time .. I could give them to you
[04:04:09] <darkcmd> yeah I want one, for my Ultra workstation
[04:04:25] <darkcmd> I am willing to pay
[04:04:33] <Error_e^ipi> it would be much harder for me to acquire an Ultra workstation from school
[04:04:45] <dclarke> great .. $285 plus shipping !
[04:04:47] <Error_e^ipi> though not impossible
[04:05:12] <darkcmd> dclarke: huh?
[04:05:19] <dclarke> its a joke
[04:05:24] <darkcmd> oh
[04:05:46] <darkcmd> You said you have one you can give me? I can pay for shipping.
[04:05:49] <Kmays> dclarke: hello (was moving things around)
[04:06:09] <dclarke> Kmays :  hello .. installing Solaris snv_55b here
[04:07:34] <darkcmd> dclarke: you're a part of blastwave?
[04:07:49] <dclarke> darkcmd :  loosely tied to it
[04:08:02] <darkcmd> ah
[04:08:05] <dclarke> darkcmd :  more like .. bolted to it
[04:08:11] <darkcmd> oh
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[04:09:52] <jmcp> dclarke: I would have said welded
[04:10:00] <darkcmd> Has OpenSolaris sparked a lot of interest in Solaris in the IT community?
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[04:11:06] <jmcp> darkcmd: not just OpenSolaris, but the new technologies that were introduced with Solaris 10
[04:11:48] <jmcp> darkcmd: being able to get the source for DTrace and Zones and ZFS and ... is an added bonus for all the inquisitive sysadmins and developers out there
[04:12:26] <boyd> Has anyone else d/led b55 for Sparc?
[04:12:37] <dclarke> aye !
[04:12:42] <dclarke> I have
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[04:13:00] <boyd> dclarke: does it have the famous /DeveloperTools dir on the DVD?
[04:13:11] <boyd> Mine doesn't, but x86 does
[04:13:14] <dclarke> I have not looked .. should I look ?
[04:13:23] <dclarke> I'll look .. one sec
[04:13:29] <dclarke> I'll insert the DVD here
[04:13:50] * richlowe would kinda guess not
[04:14:29] <boyd> :(
[04:14:39] <richlowe> well, wait for dclarke to check though...
[04:14:59] <dclarke> found it ..
[04:15:03] <dclarke> the DVD I mean
[04:15:12] <galt> boyd, yes, in fact I'm installing it on my SB100 now
[04:15:13] <dclarke> I just burned it and well .. my desk is a disaster zone
[04:15:45] <richlowe> dclarke: see, you *should* clean it!
[04:15:51] <galt> I'll take a look for DeveloperTools once I'm done installing
[04:15:55] <darkcmd> I've found myself using Solaris constantly
[04:16:00] <darkcmd> after discovering OpenSolaris
[04:16:19] * rodrick-brown gives darkcmd a cookie
[04:16:35] * darkcmd gets some milk and proceeds to dip the cookie in it
[04:16:47] <dclarke> # svcadm -v enable svc:/system/filesystem/volfs
[04:16:48] <dclarke> svc:/system/filesystem/volfs:default enabled.
[04:17:04] <dclarke> thats the fastest way to mount two DVD's at the same time
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[04:17:10] <edwardocallaghan> Hi
[04:17:15] <boyd> Hey
[04:17:17] <edwardocallaghan> I got a quick question
[04:17:20] <edwardocallaghan> Hi boyd
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[04:17:30] <galt> 32767
[04:17:45] <edwardocallaghan> You know the 60day ... how do you track your order ?
[04:17:56] <boyd> Huh?
[04:18:25] <dclarke> DeveloperTools is NOT on Sparc
[04:18:31] <edwardocallaghan> Well I advised some one to get a Ultra 20M2 as there new Desktop and told them they can try it for 60days
[04:18:36] <boyd> dclarke: That's what I'm seeing
[04:18:56] <dclarke> okay .. same here
[04:18:57] <boyd> edwardocallaghan: Ah. I have no idea, I'm afraid.
[04:19:00] <dclarke> sooo ..
[04:19:07] <dclarke> its missing then
[04:19:23] <boyd> dclarke: That's a shame. Oh, well.. I'll just keep using my existing download :)
[04:19:33] <edwardocallaghan> So they did and have not reviced a call from Sun nor have they revcied the unit yet
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[04:20:01] <Theoden-Nexenta> edwardocallaghan: Care to help with one last issue?
[04:20:12] <dclarke> boyd :  http://rafb.net/p/Gz2J2U29.html
[04:20:16] <edwardocallaghan> Oh hi
[04:20:20] <Theoden-Nexenta> :-)
[04:20:27] <edwardocallaghan> Yes how can I help ?
[04:21:13] <dclarke> boyd .. eh
[04:21:34] <boyd> Yah, that's exactly what I'm seeing
[04:21:47] <dclarke> on /cdrom/sol_11_x86 what the hell is .catalog  ??
[04:22:25] <dclarke> http://rafb.net/p/ZnUF7Y60.html
[04:23:32] <edwardocallaghan> Who has done the 60days try it free from Sun before ?
[04:23:33] <dclarke> http://rafb.net/p/aMIr3D53.html  <-- see here
[04:23:53] <lloy0076> edwardocallaghan: You in Australia yet?
[04:24:12] <edwardocallaghan> No that's on Sunday
[04:24:16] <edwardocallaghan> Why ?
[04:24:30] <boyd> edwardocallaghan: Have a nice flight
[04:24:46] <edwardocallaghan> Oh yes Thank you very much
[04:25:03] <lloy0076> edwardocallaghan: Just wondering :)
[04:25:09] <boyd> edwardocallaghan: Sunday       Fine, sunny.                      Min  16    Max  30
[04:25:20] <edwardocallaghan> Oh good stuff
[04:25:23] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: which city are you flying into?
[04:25:35] <edwardocallaghan> But that's when I take off on Sunday evening
[04:25:40] <lloy0076> edwardocallaghan: Although you might get thumped with a 40 degree scorcher :)
[04:25:42] <boyd> (that was Canberra above)
[04:25:46] <edwardocallaghan> Sydney
[04:25:49] <jmcp> boyd is in bleak city (Melbourne), me + tpenta are in Sin City (Sydney), and dlg is in the Best City In The Country (Brisbane)
[04:25:54] <boyd> edwardocallaghan: I can't see beyond Sunday ATM
[04:26:09] <lloy0076> jmcp: Hah! Queensland isn't part of the federation!
[04:26:14] <jmcp> boyd: you need better eyes :)
[04:26:14] <boyd> jmcp: What's canberra in that scheme?
[04:26:15] <edwardocallaghan> Then I need to some how get to Canberra
[04:26:23] <Tpenta> oh jmcp back home this week
[04:26:26] <jmcp> lloy0076: no, that's WA you're thinking off
[04:26:37] <jmcp> boyd: uh .... bland :)
[04:26:38] * boyd wonders about telling the n00b european that he could walk to canberra :)
[04:26:43] <jmcp> Tpenta: got back to Sydney on Sat p.m.
[04:26:48] * jmcp snorts
[04:26:48] <Tpenta> ahh
[04:26:51] <lloy0076> jmcp: Yeah, WA pretended to not want to, but we all know that it's really Queensland. They were just better at making themselves appear to want "in".
[04:26:58] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[04:27:01] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: Sydney forecasts @ http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDN10064.shtml
[04:27:04] <edwardocallaghan> I like walking
[04:27:08] <boyd> ... or ride a kangaroo
[04:27:13] <Theoden-Nexenta> edwardocallaghan: Looks like you're too busy at the  moment.
[04:27:14] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: 280km?
[04:27:15] <lloy0076> We believe the Bureau of Metereology...
[04:27:46] <edwardocallaghan> Theoden-Nexenta:No I can help in any way I can
[04:27:56] <boyd> Canberra forecasts: http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDN10035.shtml
[04:27:57] <Theoden-Nexenta> edwardocallaghan: I pm'd you.
[04:28:13] <edwardocallaghan> 280km I am sure I can do it in a day and a half ;)
[04:28:45] <dclarke> ello .. whats this "ADDED BY BOOTADM - DO NOT EDIT" in menu.lst  on snv_b55b ??
[04:28:48] <edwardocallaghan> Thanks for the info guys
[04:29:08] <richlowe> dclarke: bootadm adjusts your menu.lst, it's telling you to keep your hands off the bits it deals with.
[04:29:13] <edwardocallaghan> Theoden-Nexenta:I PM'ed you back
[04:29:18] <edwardocallaghan> Did you not get it?
[04:29:20] <dclarke> well hell .. I need to edit that
[04:29:26] <lloy0076> dclarke: Go on - edit it. You know you want to :P
[04:29:41] <dclarke> lloy0076 :  I know m way around GRUB
[04:29:51] <dclarke> but ..
[04:29:54] <lloy0076> One should hope so.
[04:30:03] <dclarke> the newboot world in Nevada .. may have hooks in other places
[04:30:04] <edwardocallaghan> Theoden-Nexenta: do #mount and pastbin it for me please
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[04:30:12] <edwardocallaghan> Oh
[04:30:13] <edwardocallaghan> :p
[04:30:15] <dclarke> like this bootadm ..
[04:30:44] <dclarke> # bootadm list-menu
[04:30:46] <dclarke> The location for the active GRUB menu is: /boot/grub/menu.lst
[04:30:49] <dclarke> big deal
[04:31:35] <dclarke> sheese ... I need to modify that .. and there is no easy way around it than to just edit it
[04:31:58] <edwardocallaghan> boyd:What's the best way for me to get to Canberra from Sydney airport if I have never been there and I am just getting off the plan?
[04:32:18] <boyd> Get on another plane?
[04:32:19] <Gman> bus
[04:32:22] <richlowe> on a giant bus named after a woman.
[04:32:35] <edwardocallaghan> lol /?
[04:32:57] <edwardocallaghan> Should I be looking something up here at this end or should I do it there and then ?
[04:33:19] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: catch another plane
[04:33:51] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: when are you arriving in Sydney ?
[04:34:08] <lloy0076> Hire a car and drive. It's a nice scenic one.
[04:34:14] <jmcp> no, it's a boring drive
[04:34:18] <jmcp> I've done it lots
[04:34:21] <jmcp> its *very* boring
[04:34:25] <lloy0076> jmcp: That's because you've done it lots.
[04:34:46] <jmcp> before the govt fixed the Hume and Federal Hwys it was horrendous
[04:34:49] <Tpenta> you're suggesting that someone new to sydney tries to find his way onto the hume hwy from the airport?????
[04:34:50] <Gman> it's just highway
[04:34:55] <Gman> you don't see anything
[04:35:13] <dclarke> the ultimate test ...  # shutdown -g0 -y -i6
[04:35:21] <Gman> Tpenta, it's not that difficult!
[04:35:28] <boyd> Apparently qantas.com have Syd->Cbr for $114 ATM
[04:35:37] <Tpenta> still gotta negotiate the city
[04:35:37] <edwardocallaghan> jmcp:I think Tue morning
[04:35:38] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: qantas flies @ 0810, 0845, 0930, 1020, 1255, 1435,1720,1755,1955. virginblue flies @ 1315
[04:35:43] <edwardocallaghan> 30th
[04:35:46] <jmcp> ok
[04:35:53] <jmcp> I just checked for the 27th for some stupid reason
[04:35:54] <jmcp> ok
[04:36:14] * boyd goes back to teaching
[04:36:23] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: www.webjet.com.au is the booking site I normally use
[04:36:34] <darkcmd> does solaris have some sort of generic OpenGL framework?
[04:36:37] * boyd goes to www.qantas.com directly
[04:37:21] <rodrick-brown> darkcmd, http://www.sun.com/software/graphics/opengl/index.xml
[04:37:36] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: lots of options for a weekday flight
[04:37:56] <rodrick-brown> darkcmd, if you're using Solaris 10 OE its bundled
[04:37:59] <boyd> Yeah, cheaper in the middle of  the day... avoid morning and early evening
[04:38:10] <darkcmd> this isn't included with x86?
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[04:39:35] <Kmays> darkcmd: Nvidia
[04:39:50] <edwardocallaghan> Thanks guys
[04:40:12] <edwardocallaghan> How long does it normally take ?
[04:40:29] <darkcmd> Kmays: so video cards with OpenGL other than NVidia are not supported?
[04:40:31] <Kmays> dclarke: CSW GNOME must live again.
[04:40:42] <dclarke> yeah man .. I know
[04:40:47] <dclarke> thanks for telling me
[04:40:58] <dclarke> like I busted a gut testing least week ..
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[04:42:24] <edwardocallaghan> What would a train ride be like ?
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[04:43:32] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: long and painful
[04:43:45] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: do you have to get to Canberra on the 30th?
[04:43:56] <galt> lots of clickety-clack as he wheels hit the next joiner plate ;P
[04:43:57] <edwardocallaghan> kind of
[04:44:00] <jmcp> well ... either way it'll probably be easier to just catch a plane
[04:44:07] <edwardocallaghan> looks like it takes about 50min ?
[04:44:25] <Tpenta> you are actually in the air about 30 minutes
[04:44:30] <edwardocallaghan> I like trains
[04:44:31] <Tpenta> the other 20 is getting thru boarding etc
[04:44:34] <galt> hop a freight FTW ;P
[04:44:36] * Tpenta did this a few weeksback
[04:44:37] <edwardocallaghan> Ah
[04:45:12] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: the sync between Sydney airport and the train system ... doesn't :|
[04:45:21] <edwardocallaghan> Well I am kind of already in sync with your time zone
[04:45:24] <dclarke> in the USA they need 15 minutes for the Homeland Security anal probe and RFID injection
[04:45:29] <Tpenta> jmcp, i used the airport line when I was going to cbr last month
[04:45:52] <edwardocallaghan> RFID injection WHAT ?
[04:45:53] <edwardocallaghan> !
[04:45:55] <jmcp> yes... but you didn't then catch the train back to Central to try to get a train back to Canberra
[04:46:14] <Tpenta> no, i causght a train back to central and jumped on a country train to wyong
[04:46:15] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: I wasn't talking about TZs, more about transport system integration
[04:46:48] <edwardocallaghan> I know
[04:46:51] <Tpenta> jmcp: or are you talking about countrylink
[04:46:53] <jmcp> Tpenta: yeah, but that's still a mostly-commuter train.
[04:47:04] <edwardocallaghan> It was random how we both used the word sync
[04:47:11] <jmcp> f*ng countrylink of course .. .how else do you think you'd catch a train to cbr?
[04:47:26] <Tpenta> never done it; it just struck me that it might be countrylink
[04:47:33] <edwardocallaghan> How long does the train take ?
[04:47:37] <Tpenta> probably almost as expensive as anotehr plane
[04:47:50] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: about 4-5 hours last time I checked
[04:47:59] <jmcp> ditto for a greyhound bus
[04:48:16] * Tpenta goes to check www.countrylink.info
[04:48:20] <edwardocallaghan> Can you see lots of nice stuff out the window and is it about the same price ?
[04:49:03] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: have you ever travelled this far before?
[04:49:35] <richlowe> I really wouldn't suggest a long drive directly after a (very) long flight.
[04:49:48] <darkcmd> I'll be back later
[04:49:52] <jmcp> believe me - a long train trip with inconvenient transfers is the *last* thing you want, especially when you have the option of a quick flight
[04:50:51] <edwardocallaghan> jmcp:no
[04:51:21] <edwardocallaghan> But I am very open
[04:51:36] <jamesd> usually with trips of any difference, the cost savings of the train are over whelmed by the price of food on the trip
[04:51:41] <edwardocallaghan> I am doing this all my self
[04:51:42] <jmcp> you'll be in a ratshit physical state
[04:51:44] <Tpenta> there are two trains on sunday jan 28
[04:51:45] <Tpenta> 12:10 - 16:29
[04:51:45] <Tpenta> 18:15 - 22:31
[04:51:45] <Tpenta> Economy price 53.90, First Class: 75.90
[04:52:18] <edwardocallaghan> I looked on the 30th
[04:52:21] <edwardocallaghan> I found the price
[04:52:26] <edwardocallaghan> its much cheaper
[04:52:40] <edwardocallaghan> I will have to review it
[04:53:17] <edwardocallaghan> I would say this will make me grow up very quick
[04:53:29] <edwardocallaghan> In one way or another
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[04:53:48] <richlowe> and depending on season, I'd expect the temp. difference to be a bugger, too.
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[04:54:15] <jmcp> richlowe: the major difference between Canberra's climate and Sydney's is the humidity - or lack thereof
[04:54:32] <jmcp> sydney is relatively quite humid, averages around 55-60%. Canberra ... low 30%
[04:54:33] <richlowe> jmcp: I was meaning between the UK and there, and then travelling further out of the comfort of a plane.
[04:54:44] <jmcp> heh
[04:54:56] <edwardocallaghan> The heat will be ok I am sure
[04:54:57] <jmcp> richlowe: it would be muchmuch less humid in Canberra except for the artificial lakes
[04:55:12] <edwardocallaghan> I was in Turkey last summer and it was 40*
[04:55:30] <elektronkind> turkey was nice last year
[04:55:43] <edwardocallaghan> And in the morning I did my 3mile run
[04:56:04] <edwardocallaghan> I'm half Turkish
[04:56:20] <edwardocallaghan> Although I don't really know much about the place
[04:56:33] <elektronkind> ah. I was there for the eclipse, near antalya and alanya
[04:56:49] <elektronkind> and a music festy which was during it
[04:57:07] <edwardocallaghan> Well I would have gone but I have been having major family problems here
[04:57:11] <elektronkind> 30k people going bonkers is a sight
[04:57:36] <edwardocallaghan> I love my Astronomy!
[04:58:01] <edwardocallaghan> My family here are very messed up and have made my life very hard
[04:58:18] <dclarke> question : why does eject not actually "eject" both my DVD drives ?
[04:58:37] <edwardocallaghan> So I am trying to rebuild it from scratch in Australia
[04:58:47] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[04:59:00] <dclarke> edwardocallaghan :  been there .. done that
[04:59:02] <edwardocallaghan> Are they on the same IDE cable ?
[04:59:25] <edwardocallaghan> dclarke:Nice to know I am not the only one
[04:59:26] <dclarke> edwardocallaghan :  when the family is a hassle .. big big hassle .. move futher away than they can hitch hike .. workd for me
[04:59:39] <dclarke> yep .. on same IDE cable
[05:00:06] <edwardocallaghan> Did you do the same ?
[05:00:29] <dclarke> # eject /vol/dev/dsk/c0t1d0/sol_11_x86
[05:00:39] <dclarke> solved that .. and yes .. solved the family issue too
[05:01:00] <edwardocallaghan> My mum is completely mad ! She has messed around with my records here put me in some doggy boarding school ect...
[05:01:24] <edwardocallaghan> Has a lock on all the doors in the house I mean...
[05:01:26] <edwardocallaghan> Mad
[05:01:53] <dclarke> hey man .. I'm 42 yrs old and I got as far from my uncles as possible .. a bunch of red neck rejects the lot of them
[05:02:22] <edwardocallaghan> top stuff
[05:02:29] <dclarke> they are so dumb they couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel
[05:02:42] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[05:02:44] * dclarke sounds like a red neck sometimes :-)
[05:03:34] <edwardocallaghan> I hope some one will notice my talents in Electronics in Australia and help me with uni fees
[05:03:37] <dclarke> listen .. I need to logout and then see if I can remotely login to my new server here
[05:04:10] <dclarke> pwd
[05:04:13] <dclarke> oops
[05:04:18] <dclarke> wrong window
[05:04:55] <edwardocallaghan> OK
[05:05:09] <edwardocallaghan> Thanks for all the advice guys!
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[05:15:01] <edwardocallaghan> I should goto sleep now
[05:15:06] <edwardocallaghan> Thanks agine
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[05:16:13] <dclarke> question : anyone know of a reason why I would not be able to remotely login to snv_b55b ??
[05:16:48] <dclarke> my Sol 10 system here seems blatantly unable to even see the new server on the network .. and can not provide a desktop login session
[05:17:11] <jamesd> do you have a valid username  not root?
[05:17:17] <dclarke> yep
[05:17:37] <dclarke> even if I didn't .. I should get the dtlong/gdm login screen
[05:17:48] <dclarke> even if I didn't .. I should get the dtlogin/gdm login screen
[05:17:49] <szt> you're trying to remote login.  think you have to enable remote
[05:18:02] <dclarke> by default I thought it was there
[05:18:03] <jamesd> the box is secure by default i beleive..  you should only get   ssh logins
[05:18:05] <dclarke> let me lok ..
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[05:18:19] <dclarke> oh no .. its now secure by default eh ?
[05:18:24] <jamesd> yeap
[05:18:27] <szt> righto
[05:18:28] * alanc_away would think dclarke already knows about secure by default disabling all remote login methods except ssh, since it's been there about a dozen builds now
[05:18:47] <dclarke> hey .. I was running snv_52 for weeks
[05:18:53] <dclarke> and it was not SBD
[05:19:07] <alanc_away> it was if you did fresh install, and not upgrade
[05:19:08] <szt> SBD has been in since 47 or so
[05:19:11] <dclarke> I installed snv_53 a little while ago and it was only an option
[05:19:13] <jamesd> run  netservices open
[05:19:15] <dclarke> so .. now its default
[05:19:45] <alanc_away> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/security/projects/sbd/ says 42, and it's been on by default for fresh install since it went in
[05:19:51] <richlowe> don't run 'netservices open', specifically enable the services you need.
[05:19:53] <dclarke> its a damn good thing .. but .. I didn't see it comeing
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[05:20:05] <richlowe> completely reversing the goals of Secure By Default for the sake of convenience is a bad idea.
[05:20:08] * alanc_away goes back to getting dinner ready
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[05:20:25] <dclarke> alanc_away :  I did a fresh install of snv_52 here and its not in there by default
[05:20:31] * jamesd is considering the fact that the box is behind at least 1 firewall if not two.... since he knows dennis.
[05:20:47] *** pats_got_hozed is now known as club_adelitas_TJ
[05:21:06] <alanc_away> from the number of complaints I've gotten about xhost +hostname not working since 42, I'm very sure it's been on by default
[05:21:26] <dclarke> I never use that xhost + thing since .. 2001
[05:21:29] <szt> yeah, i love being the example...
[05:21:39] <dclarke> I use xauth and exchange MIT-MAGIC keys stuff
[05:21:50] <szt> i just use ssh -X now
[05:21:55] <dclarke> regardless .. let me see what I have for services
[05:22:16] <dclarke> # svcs -av | grep gdm
[05:22:18] <dclarke> disabled       -             22:40:36      - svc:/application/graphical-login/gdm:default
[05:22:19] <alanc_away> xauth remote display is disabled too by SBD
[05:22:24] <dclarke> ah ha ...
[05:22:38] <alanc_away> and by gdm before SBD
[05:22:48] <alanc_away> both pass -nolisten tcp to X
[05:22:56] <dclarke> well what the hell .. was I in some time warp or something ?
[05:23:06] <dclarke> or just ignorant ...
[05:23:11] <szt> alanc_away quick xorg question - status on libXcurosr?
[05:23:11] <dclarke> probably both
[05:23:30] <alanc_away> szt: on todo list after 7.2 Xserver integration
[05:23:31] <szt> probably just didn't try it, dennis
[05:23:43] <dclarke> oops
[05:23:44] <alanc_away> dclarke: or just forget you'ld run netservices open before
[05:23:51] <dclarke> ooops
[05:24:00] <dclarke> Jan 21 23:23:42 thales gdm[2197]: Failed to start X server several times in a short time period; disabling display :0
[05:24:09] <alanc_away> szt: in my internal 7.2 test binaries, Xcursor is included, but integration will come later
[05:24:34] <szt> alanc_away oh, so they're on an internal server?
[05:24:42] <alanc_away> szt: yes
[05:24:50] <club_adelitas_TJ> is opensolaris slow on non sparc?
[05:25:01] <dclarke> on non-sparc it rocks
[05:25:04] <alanc_away> have never gotten around to doing export control paperwork for external release
[05:25:07] <dclarke> on Sparc .. its slow
[05:25:08] <club_adelitas_TJ> and does opensolaris suport sata drives?
[05:25:14] <szt> well, when I get my car out of the ditch and off the mountain, I'll try and catch up
[05:25:18] <alanc_away> club_adelitas_TJ: it's faster on recent AMD/Intel hardware
[05:25:21] <dclarke> club_adelitas_TJ :  big time
[05:25:30] <club_adelitas_TJ> i686?
[05:25:39] <dclarke> # svcadm -v enable svc:/application/graphical-login/gdm
[05:25:40] <dclarke> svc:/application/graphical-login/gdm:default enabled.
[05:25:45] <club_adelitas_TJ> what features does it have that say freebsd lacks?
[05:25:46] <dclarke> that ought to get me .. somewhere
[05:25:47] <alanc_away> szt: if you send me mail internally I can send you a pointer
[05:25:56] <dclarke> club_adelitas_TJ :  zones
[05:25:58] <dclarke> club_adelitas_TJ :  ZFS
[05:26:02] <dclarke> club_adelitas_TJ :  DTrace
[05:26:06] <dclarke> club_adelitas_TJ :  it works
[05:26:09] <dclarke> club_adelitas_TJ :  :-)
[05:26:16] <szt> alanc_away cool.  I've been tracking the other xorg updates
[05:26:16] <ibb> what are zones?
[05:26:18] <club_adelitas_TJ> cmon freebsd works
[05:26:28] <dclarke> yeah .. I know
[05:26:31] * alanc_away really is gone now
[05:26:32] <dclarke> just poking fun
[05:26:40] <club_adelitas_TJ> lol
[05:26:50] <szt> dclarke: are you running gdm or dtlogin?
[05:26:55] <club_adelitas_TJ> so you find opensolaris to be less work and more porductive than freebsd?
[05:26:56] <dclarke> goto Google and search for "Get in the Zone"
[05:27:11] <dclarke> szt : I'm in CDE at the moment
[05:27:18] <dclarke> szt : but not for long
[05:27:27] <ibb> dclarke: it is autozone
[05:27:53] <dclarke> http://www.blastwave.org/articles/DMC-0002/index.html
[05:28:05] <rodrick-brown> freebsd is so featureless compared to Solaris
[05:28:11] <szt> dclarke: not which wm.  which display manager.  If you're not running gdm, then enabling gdm may cause addiitional problems
[05:28:20] <ibb> zones, are vitualizations by solaris
[05:28:24] <dclarke> szt : oh ..
[05:28:25] <szt> as you're already running dtlogin
[05:28:34] <rodrick-brown> zones != virtualizations
[05:28:44] <dclarke> szt : well then .. this should be interesting
[05:29:56] <dclarke> richlowe : yeah .. I know
[05:30:05] <Theoden-Nexenta> If editing a vfstab file for audio CD - what fs should be used?
[05:30:23] <dclarke> why edit vfstab for a CD ?
[05:30:27] <jamesd> the automounter
[05:30:40] <Theoden-Nexenta> Not working for audio cds
[05:30:51] <jbk> you don't mount audio cds
[05:31:13] <Auralis> audio cds don't have a fs, they can't be mounted
[05:31:27] <ibb> they can
[05:31:30] <szt> richlowe:  we got your kqemu patch added to qemu CVS
[05:31:44] <richlowe> I've never touched qemu...
[05:31:55] <dclarke> # netservices limited ??   looks to be the bloody same as svccfg and the limited XML config
[05:32:05] <szt> oops. wrong lowe.  apologies
[05:32:28] <dclarke> qemu .. slow slow slow
[05:32:32] <dclarke> real slow
[05:32:37] <dclarke> glacial slow
[05:32:38] <szt> have you tried with kqemu?
[05:32:48] <dclarke> the kind of slow that you have heard of .. but never seen
[05:33:03] <dclarke> I have not seen kqemu in Solaris yet
[05:33:13] <ibb> Theoden-Nexenta: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-1048/6m7gaddij?a=view
[05:33:14] <club_adelitas_TJ> ok so what would I use virtualization for?
[05:33:21] <club_adelitas_TJ> like vmware?
[05:33:28] <club_adelitas_TJ> to make little boxen outa 1 big
[05:33:29] <dclarke> club_adelitas_TJ :  not even close
[05:33:35] <club_adelitas_TJ> hm
[05:33:36] <ibb> yes, where u can run many oses at the same time
[05:33:39] <szt> I submitted eric lowe's kqemu wedge and martin is working on some other solaris stuff
[05:33:40] <club_adelitas_TJ> why
[05:33:41] <dclarke> oh heck .. I have to logout .. back in a bit
[05:33:42] <ibb> on one machine
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[05:33:48] <club_adelitas_TJ> trick would seem to me to program 1 big box
[05:33:58] <ibb> to use the most of the processor cycles
[05:34:37] <club_adelitas_TJ> well it would be cool to be able to tell a program what % of cpu it could use
[05:34:53] <szt> solaris has resource manager and zones
[05:34:57] <club_adelitas_TJ> so my gnuchess would not bog down my web surfing)metaphore---)
[05:35:08] <szt> not to mention processor sets
[05:35:23] <club_adelitas_TJ> so wow opensolaris is ahead of freebsd and linux on features?
[05:35:30] <jamesd> club_adelitas_TJ, zones
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[05:35:36] <jbk> and now cpu caps
[05:35:38] <jamesd> club_adelitas_TJ, hell yeah..
[05:35:51] <club_adelitas_TJ> holy crap so why arent shops moving to opensolaris?
[05:35:51] <ibb> cpu caps?? man that is something
[05:36:00] <club_adelitas_TJ> hows hardware support for i686?
[05:36:15] <ibb> they support all x86 systems
[05:36:16] <club_adelitas_TJ> sata drives?
[05:36:21] <club_adelitas_TJ> wifi?
[05:36:39] <szt> so what are you doing here, club_adelitas_TJ?
[05:36:44] <club_adelitas_TJ> well
[05:37:05] <szt> wifi is supported to some extent, sata to some extent
[05:37:34] <ibb> wouldnt sata be supported the same way that SAS is?
[05:37:48] <ibb> or the use of the same drivers?
[05:37:51] <jbk> though it sounds like sata is posed to get a lot better here in the next few months
[05:37:54] <club_adelitas_TJ> I was in here after I saw opensolaris on the net, and someone mentioned getting cheap sun box on ebay in some chat, and I am trying out archlinux at home, and want to go ahead and try opensolaris, bsd and whatever other free unixes there are out there
[05:38:39] <club_adelitas_TJ> I love free software
[05:38:42] <Error_e^ipi> sun will sell you a $700 1U
[05:38:43] <szt> what kind of box did you buy/
[05:38:48] <ibb> talking of cheap sun, i found a quad processor system at 300 bucks on ebay
[05:39:05] <club_adelitas_TJ> I have 4 or 5 old compaq dl 360
[05:39:19] <ibb> processor power is?
[05:39:22] <club_adelitas_TJ> 100 celeron 512 ram
[05:39:25] <club_adelitas_TJ> 1100
[05:39:26] <club_adelitas_TJ> mhz
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[05:39:41] <ibb> 1.1ghz?? then and 512mb?
[05:39:44] <szt> ibb: what? U80 or R420?
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[05:40:06] <club_adelitas_TJ> got a rather nasty zydas chipset wireless usb nic going on archlinux too
[05:40:11] <ibb> szt: i saw it yesterday, i did not account for the model
[05:40:34] <club_adelitas_TJ> ibb can I see?
[05:40:43] <club_adelitas_TJ> would it be suitable for web surfin?
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[05:41:10] <ibb> wait, i am looking again
[05:41:31] <szt> probably better off with the celeron, or buying a cheap AMD M2 system for that
[05:41:38] <ibb> http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-Enterprise-420-Quad-450MHz-Server-4GB-Great-cond_W0QQitemZ170071470890QQihZ007QQcategoryZ106272QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[05:41:53] <ibb> the quad system for 345 usd
[05:42:20] <ibb> szt: its a 420
[05:43:06] <szt> I'd try and find a SB1000 (not 100).  It's not a bad server (the U80 is the workstation model of the same systemboard) and I have a U60
[05:43:42] <Tpenta> umm no, the u80 is a US-II machine and teh 1000 is a US-III
[05:43:47] <ibb> for even cheaper quad sun;http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-Enterprise-420R-Quad-450MHz-18GBx2-Solaris-Server_W0QQitemZ290074625601QQihZ019QQcategoryZ106272QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[05:44:45] <szt> Tpenta: sorry. confused my thougts. I was refering to the 420.  the SB1000 is the workstation version of 280R
[05:44:48] <Tpenta> the 420r and the u80 are the same beast
[05:44:53] <Tpenta> yup
[05:45:37] <szt> other than the sound board in the u80. :-)
[05:45:50] <ibb> club_adelitas_TJ: did u check the links yet?
[05:46:13] <jbk> i need to find something that puts out less heat than my u10
[05:46:26] <ibb> how much heat is that?
[05:46:40] <jbk> enough to make the room unbearably hot if i leave it running
[05:46:51] <jbk> (the fact the window in the room faces west doesn't help)
[05:46:52] <club_adelitas_TJ> http://cgi.ebay.com/SUN-ULTRA-ENTERPRISE-3000-Workstation-Server-Sparc_W0QQitemZ300070876042QQihZ020QQcategoryZ20327QQcmdZViewItem
[05:46:54] <ibb> ok, is it a sun system?
[05:46:59] <club_adelitas_TJ> I cant make out the specs for this pig
[05:47:22] <Tpenta> 10 yo US-II based box. system boards
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[05:47:39] <Tpenta> umm 2 system boards i mean
[05:47:44] <szt> not to mention FC drives
[05:48:10] <Tpenta> slow FC (FCOMs)
[05:48:21] <jamesd> given how cheap upgrades are... its not bad... if power is cheap.
[05:48:34] <ibb> club_adelitas_TJ: its got a 400mhz cpu with 256 mb ram
[05:48:35] <Tpenta> jmcp, fcom is only 10mbit isnt it?
[05:48:43] <club_adelitas_TJ> :(
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[05:48:55] <jamesd> the e3000 is 100MB/s fcal
[05:49:08] <Tpenta> 3000 or 3500?
[05:49:15] <dclarke> okay .. logged into snv_55b now
[05:49:23] <dclarke> could not start gaim .. it blew up
[05:49:28] <Tpenta> i thought the 3000 only had old 10mb or 25mb FCOMs
[05:49:41] <jamesd> no they aren't that old..
[05:49:52] <dclarke> the E3000 is old
[05:49:53] <Tpenta> the 3000s are the generation before the 3500s
[05:49:55] <jamesd> the 1010 was 25mb fcal ...
[05:49:59] <dclarke> bloody circa 1996
[05:50:02] <club_adelitas_TJ> so taht first box is impressive
[05:50:05] <club_adelitas_TJ> 345$
[05:50:20] <club_adelitas_TJ> now with sun i need specail keyboard n mouse?
[05:50:32] <jmcp> yes, fcom is 25Mb/sec. It's definitely not even fcal
[05:50:32] <jamesd> yes but not old enough for 25mbit fcal
[05:50:35] <club_adelitas_TJ> oh shit do they use a lazer mouse or am i back to roller mouse?
[05:50:55] <dclarke> what ?
[05:50:56] <jmcp> fcom was a stopgap architecture based on IBM's serial storage arch (SSA)
[05:50:59] <dclarke> any mouse will work
[05:51:03] <dclarke> and decent mouse
[05:51:04] <ibb> i suppose they use ps/2 connected mouse and keyboard
[05:51:07] <dclarke> I use wireless
[05:51:07] <Tpenta> the 3000 has not graphics head, you plug a terminal into the console port
[05:51:08] <jbk> heh
[05:51:08] * jmcp heads off to collect the inlaws
[05:51:15] * jbk remembers those ssa drives
[05:51:22] <Auralis> the oriignal sbus i/o board has FC/25 build in, the later sbus and pci i/o boards have FCAL build in
[05:51:28] <jbk> we had a like 30 cabinets of them for a data warehouse
[05:51:33] <jbk> they warped the floor tiles :)
[05:51:36] <Tpenta> and i think the 3000 had a "disk board" for the root drives
[05:51:44] <club_adelitas_TJ> 2nd on is nice as well
[05:51:47] <club_adelitas_TJ> and cheap
[05:51:49] <club_adelitas_TJ> wow
[05:51:50] <ibb> man that sounds old
[05:52:13] <club_adelitas_TJ> ok so my ps2 mouse is ok?
[05:52:15] <Auralis> 3000 has internal fcal drive bay
[05:52:30] <ibb> club_adelitas_TJ: breath u will be fine, it will work
[05:52:35] <Auralis> club_adelitas_TJ: no, for older suns you need a sun keyboard and mice, newer suns use usb
[05:52:44] <Auralis> but even there a sun keyboard is advised
[05:52:49] <szt> iirc, you have to have an adapter to convert sun keyboard/mouse to ps2
[05:52:50] <club_adelitas_TJ> how fast are 4x450mhz sparc vs say p4?
[05:53:10] <ibb> p4 at what speed?
[05:53:19] <club_adelitas_TJ> 1800mhz
[05:53:25] <ibb> that combined sparc power is 1.8ghz
[05:53:38] <Auralis> if your workload can be distrubuted across the cpus a ultrasparc is about the same speed as a opteron with mathing clockspeed
[05:53:41] <dclarke> KMays ?
[05:53:50] <dclarke> anyone seen/heard KMays ?
[05:53:54] <Kmays> hear
[05:54:01] <Kmays> here
[05:54:02] <club_adelitas_TJ> can web browsing and playing mvoies be spread accross processors?
[05:54:06] <Kmays> :D
[05:54:11] <jamesd> club_adelitas_TJ, a 450mhz with 4MB or 8MB l2 cache will probably be faster than  1+ ghz p4...  now multiple times how many cpus and the fact that they are  scsi or fibre channel.
[05:54:14] <dclarke> hey .. where do I get that background graphic ? http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/GNOME/gnome_2.16.2_000.png
[05:54:21] <Auralis> club_adelitas_TJ: web yes, movie rather not
[05:54:25] <dclarke> its somewhere on the gnome-test area
[05:54:46] <club_adelitas_TJ> so by way of comparison, what is the better buy
[05:54:52] <ibb> what is wrong with movies?
[05:54:53] <club_adelitas_TJ> 200$ sun box here
[05:55:02] <club_adelitas_TJ> http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-Enterprise-420R-Quad-450MHz-18GBx2-Solaris-Server_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ106272QQihZ019QQitemZ290074625601QQrdZ1
[05:55:03] <club_adelitas_TJ> OR
[05:55:16] <Auralis> ibb: lack of smp cabable players mostly
[05:55:32] <Kmays> testing/ABSTRACT-RayOfLight_1680x1050.png
[05:55:39] <dclarke> cool
[05:55:46] <ibb> it distributes the use over diferent processors
[05:55:47] <club_adelitas_TJ> http://www.pricewatch.com/computer_systems_no_os/ somethign hre for 200$
[05:55:47] <dclarke> gotta get that into the splash area
[05:55:53] <dclarke> or .. back drop area
[05:56:08] <club_adelitas_TJ> james are you serious
[05:56:09] <ibb> mplayer should work great
[05:56:24] <club_adelitas_TJ> 450mhz sprac = 1Ghz p4?
[05:56:32] <club_adelitas_TJ> so x4 = 4Ghz p4?
[05:56:35] <club_adelitas_TJ> for 100$
[05:56:43] <jamesd> club_adelitas_TJ, yes on some work loads...
[05:56:44] <club_adelitas_TJ> vlc is my favorite now
[05:56:57] <Auralis> ibb: mplayer is single threaded, it will not use more then a single cpu
[05:56:58] <ibb> vlc is awsome
[05:57:01] <Auralis> and sparcs lack Xvideo
[05:57:02] <club_adelitas_TJ> so that second box is a steal?
[05:57:22] <ibb> Auralis: what player is smp compatible?
[05:57:27] <Auralis> ibb: none
[05:57:28] <jamesd> club_adelitas_TJ, don't forget your work load will have to scale to 4 cpus..  so  single threaded task wont be that fast.
[05:57:34] <club_adelitas_TJ> so can I buy that box, slap opensolaris on it, then use it to surf the web adn pla with postgresql adn perl etc etc.
[05:57:43] <Auralis> club_adelitas_TJ: yes
[05:57:57] <club_adelitas_TJ> and opensolaris supports xwindows?
[05:58:17] <club_adelitas_TJ> so that box is a steal compared to anything http://www.pricewatch.com/computer_systems_no_os/
[05:58:18] <Auralis> yes
[05:58:37] <szt> yeah, but the kind of video adapters you can put in those systems are pretty primitive compared to a current 6600GT
[05:58:41] <club_adelitas_TJ> and opensolarsi does 802.11 wavelan?
[05:58:52] <szt> x86
[05:58:55] <dclarke> where the heck is the top panel in Nevada Vermillion ?
[05:59:01] <dclarke> its .. gone
[05:59:02] <Auralis> except that there is no wlan hardware for sparcs
[05:59:11] <club_adelitas_TJ> oh shit
[05:59:22] <ibb> sparc does not have pci slots?? for v2.2
[05:59:32] <club_adelitas_TJ> but the sun ethernet card would work for regualr ethernet cable?
[05:59:49] <Auralis> yes, and each i/o board has another fastether as well
[05:59:50] <szt> no biggie.  just get one of those mini wifi-ethernet bridges
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[06:00:34] <szt> I've got a dlink DL830, which is a mini-router/bridge/repeater which is AC and USB powered
[06:01:36] <szt> club_adelitas_TJ: you can also use realtek 8169 GigE cards in a sparc using Murayama's drivers (and maybe rge is on sparc now...)
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[06:04:56] <ibb> why are mainframes so expensive? what is it so good about them?
[06:05:25] <Tpenta> believe it or not, sun does not make main frames, we make minis
[06:05:36] <jbk> they can push large amounts of i/o
[06:05:39] <ibb> minis? apple minis?
[06:05:40] <Tpenta> scalability and bandwidth are generally the big wins
[06:06:00] <ibb> what are the processors on theses things like?
[06:06:07] <jbk> though you need appreciate they tend to be really anemic in cpu power
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[06:07:01] <club_adelitas_TJ> ok
[06:07:04] <jbk> many years ago at work, some vp forced this one big app to be moved to USS (unix system services) on a mainframe (from some HP V boxes)
[06:07:10] <jbk> didn't work out too well :)
[06:07:11] <ibb> they have a processor i take it, so why dont i ever see any specs, only prices of 30000 dollars
[06:07:25] <Tpenta> www.sparc.org
[06:07:44] <Tpenta> not only the sparc specs, but the source code; it's under gpl (well the T1 is)
[06:07:48] <club_adelitas_TJ> so buy quad sun server more economic valeu than buying new intel or amd box
[06:07:58] <club_adelitas_TJ> and more power for dollar?
[06:08:11] <Tpenta> it depends on your workload
[06:08:14] <jbk> i still need to check that out.. i only ever got to mess with vhdl in college, and even then, they really did a poor job of teaching it
[06:08:19] <club_adelitas_TJ> but I need special keyboard n mouse(headache)
[06:08:43] <club_adelitas_TJ> well if box used for webserver adn db server
[06:08:53] <Auralis> ibb: a good mainframe as several cpus working in tandem, checking eah other, parity checks on everything all kinds of redunancy shit
[06:08:58] <ibb> Tpenta: so what do i get from the sparc t1000 for 3000 dollars, cause when i want to look for the buy button they have only ones prices from 4000 and up
[06:08:59] <Tpenta> what kind of db?
[06:09:06] <club_adelitas_TJ> postgresql
[06:09:21] <Tpenta> i mean applicatoinwise what are you using it for?
[06:09:38] <Tpenta> the database that is
[06:09:59] <Tpenta> db serving the web pages, or are you talking high transactional read/write?
[06:10:20] <ibb> who u asking now tpenta?
[06:10:36] <Auralis> club_adelitas_TJ: well, you don't need a keyboard, mouse or monitor at all on a sparc, a serial terminal will do the job just fine
[06:10:48] <dlg> mmmserial
[06:10:50] <dlg> mmmlom
[06:10:56] <Tpenta> ok, i got confused, I thought i was seeing what your box was doing but it was not; what kind of job would such a box be doing for you?
[06:11:43] <ibb> for me, it would be; ldap, dns, dhcp, web, db and some more
[06:12:10] <Tpenta> are you talkin server/workstation/what?
[06:12:22] <Tpenta> that's a pretty general workload
[06:12:31] <ibb> oh yes, data storage, and backups, talking server
[06:12:56] <ibb> its general, only that my p3 is not able to handle it
[06:13:25] <dlg> are you sure its a p3? are you sure it isnt crap?
[06:13:32] <ibb> lol
[06:13:38] <dlg> ive done all that on an ipx
[06:13:40] <ibb> its p3,1ghz
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[06:13:53] <dlg> s/ive done/im doing/
[06:14:01] <dlg> cept for the data storage
[06:14:14] <dlg> unless someone wants to give me an emulex sbus hba
[06:14:24] <Tpenta> as long as the load is light, I wouldnt be looking at much more than a current intel or amd type box. I doubt you'd get the bang/buck for spending money on a sparc soltion.
[06:14:39] <ibb> i am looking at this server as able to handle future loads too, like encodings and streaming
[06:15:06] <Tpenta> now if it started getting a much heavier load, as long as we are not talking floating point, the T1 based boxes might also be a good bet, as long as the workload is parallelizable and not requiring "speed in a straight line"
[06:15:34] * Tpenta disappears, my kids are being too quiet
[06:15:46] <ibb> well, the encoding requires that, but then it requires a quick hd as well
[06:16:42] <jbk> actually encoding can often be done with integer math
[06:17:15] <ibb> how u mean, my amd 2.1ghz is running wild right now at 100%
[06:17:33] <ibb> and its not running that fast on the encoding
[06:19:30] <ibb> using mencoder by the way
[06:23:23] <galt> was someone in a really blue mood when they set up the dtlogin screen on nv55?
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[06:26:40] <szt> think it had something to do with not making sunray's spend too much time painting the screen
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[06:27:11] <galt> szt since sunrays use ethernet, prolly not
[06:27:14] <darkcmd> galt: what does it look like?
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[06:27:53] <galt> darkcmd, it's solidcolor blue, with a blue background input box
[06:28:14] <galt> sun blue actually, which has just a hint of purple
[06:28:19] <dclarke> KMays ?
[06:29:12] <szt> galt sure it does.  the more complex the image, the more rewrites have to happen.
[06:29:32] <galt> yeah, I conflated two conversations
[06:29:41] <szt> np
[06:30:20] <dclarke> see anything interesting there ?  --> http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/?q=node/28
[06:31:55] <galt> only the unseen things that saved you some bandwidth as I didn't need to reget xmms after all today ;)
[06:32:14] <dclarke> eh ?
[06:32:26] <galt> rhythmbox in hte nice orange start menu
[06:32:33] <dclarke> can't see it eh ?
[06:32:42] <dclarke> its subtel
[06:32:46] <dclarke> subtle
[06:32:53] <galt> the last part, I just figured you got CSWgnome
[06:32:56] <jamesd> different screen res or different size image on the 3rd.
[06:33:01] <jamesd> maybe it was scaled.
[06:33:08] <dclarke> the last one is running on Solaris 8
[06:33:52] <galt> you got the full JDS on CSWgnome?!
[06:34:05] <szt> Isn't Solaris 8 EOL? :-)
[06:34:16] <Tpenta> not yet
[06:34:18] <dclarke> no .. the full GNOME on Solaris
[06:34:19] <galt> ah, no, just metacity
[06:34:33] <dclarke> no .. full GNOME
[06:34:42] <Tpenta> we have not hit last sale on Solaris 8 yet, and then it has a support life of 5 years (2 of which we will build patches for it)
[06:34:55] <dclarke> on Solaris 8 and Solaris 9 and Solaris 10 and it will run on Solaris Nevada .. and that should be weird
[06:35:11] <galt> dclarke, I thought that you could do CSWgnome for quite a while, even to making it a dtlogin option
[06:35:12] <dclarke> Solaris 8 has a LOT of life in it yet
[06:35:27] <dclarke> yes .. it is a dtlogin option
[06:35:28] <Tpenta> jsut dont deploy it on new starcat
[06:35:32] <Tpenta> PLEASE
[06:35:33] <szt> for existing servers yeah. not for workstations
[06:36:02] <dclarke> the last server I did a frsh install of Solaris 8 on .. for someone else was for Siemens
[06:36:12] <dclarke> on .. SunFire V440
[06:36:19] <Tpenta> if you do, then a member of one of the virtual teams I am on will end up having to explain to you that lots of performance issues got fixed in s9 and up but cannot be fixed in s8
[06:36:22] <galt> why the HELL?
[06:36:23] <dclarke> six months ago
[06:36:55] <dclarke> galt : why the hell what ?
[06:37:08] <jamesd> Tpenta, too bad no one fixed the added bloat issues added in solaris 9... solaris 8 uses a lot less ram... so its happier on older boxes...
[06:37:10] <szt> probably for the same reason my customer upgraded to S9 0905 for their USIV+ 1.8G SB upgrade, because the app isn't certified on 10
[06:37:31] <dclarke> well .. Siemens is looking at Linux now
[06:37:48] <dclarke> by the time they get around to dumping Solaris .. it won't be worth it to them
[06:37:53] <galt> dclarke, saddle a v440 with....THAT
[06:37:59] <dclarke> and they will just stay with Solaris
[06:38:20] <dclarke> galt : its the spec for their meedical imaging software
[06:38:23] <szt> solaris by entropy...
[06:38:34] <dclarke> galt : Solaris 8 is very well established
[06:38:49] <Tpenta> definitely is, but it's also 5-6 years old
[06:38:59] <dclarke> galt : certified to the hilt in every standard and government red tape thing
[06:39:14] <dclarke> and its real real stable when done right
[06:39:21] <dclarke> and its .. old
[06:39:24] <ibb> didn't solaris 10 come out in 2003
[06:39:38] <dclarke> geez .. I was doing Solaris 10 beta back in 2003
[06:39:49] <dclarke> I think that the GA was in ... Feb 2004 ?
[06:39:51] <szt> that was 9.  10 was released in the beginning of 05
[06:40:22] <ibb> its damn new system out, but the best sun has got
[06:40:38] <dclarke> well .. its wos is b74L2a
[06:40:39] <galt> taht and if you want TS, you're looking at 8 IIRC (at least until trusted extensions gets certified)
[06:40:53] <Tpenta> which i believe is pretty much done
[06:41:23] <dclarke> the point that I wanted to make was that you can't get latest GNOME from Sun .. for Solaris 8 or 9 or 10
[06:41:26] <ibb> dclarke: there are many established versions of other systems but they must move on
[06:41:29] <dclarke> but you can get it
[06:41:52] <dclarke> and on that note .. I have to talk with Google tomorrow .. so I better get some sleep
[06:41:55] <ibb> that is a hard point to see in that story
[06:42:22] <szt> nothing like encouraging folks not to upgrade their os...
[06:42:24] <dclarke> ibb : I wasn't trying to be a dork about it
[06:42:45] <ibb> i saw it only at conclusion time
[06:43:23] <ibb> dclarke: good night and good luck with google
[06:43:32] <dclarke> thanks ..
[06:43:37] <dclarke> I may need it
[06:43:46] <ibb> is it interview?
[06:43:54] <dclarke> yeah
[06:44:03] <dclarke> they called me .. I didn't call them
[06:44:18] <ibb> good luck then is in order again
[06:44:21] <dclarke> which is kinda cool
[06:44:50] <ibb> that is very cool, GOOGLE, man i think that is amazing
[06:45:15] <dclarke> hardly .. they will chew me up and spit me out after asking me some super tough questions
[06:45:24] <jamesd> the worst part about google is that they have an awful habbit of 20-30 interviews before they offer a position with the company.
[06:45:27] <jbk> hah
[06:45:39] <ibb> but the pay is great
[06:45:42] <jbk> knowing some people that work for google, i really don't think you have that much to worry about
[06:46:03] <dclarke> I'm not as smart as I would like to think I am .. and thats being honest
[06:46:08] <ibb> they toned it down to 4 interviews as of lately
[06:46:13] <dclarke> twenty years ago .. yeah .. I was pushing the envelope
[06:46:24] <dclarke> now .. I'm just another geek
[06:46:31] <szt> now you're just licking the envelope?
[06:46:36] <ibb> lol
[06:46:41] <dclarke> ha ha .. yeah .. thats funny
[06:46:46] <dclarke> I'll use it someday
[06:46:51] <dclarke> tomorrow :-\
[06:46:55] <ibb> that may be tomorrow
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[06:47:00] <szt> gl dennis
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[06:47:54] <dclarke> thanks guys ...
[06:48:05] <ibb> i think google is a fun company, so i should hope it will be fun and easy going
[06:48:18] <szt> does that include a relocation?
[06:48:19] <dclarke> I'm off to pass-out-fall-over-unconscious land :-)
[06:48:28] <ibb> night
[06:48:33] <dclarke> ask me tomorrow
[06:48:39] <dclarke> I'll have a clue then
[06:48:42] <ibb> what time
[06:48:45] <dclarke> late
[06:48:50] <dclarke> like .. nowish
[06:48:56] <ibb> will do
[06:49:29] <dclarke> Tpenta : whereever you are .. g'night there my good man !   <insert wave>
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[06:51:42] <ibb> i am having now more to think about, opensolaris, linux, xfs and zfs, lots of choice but i need to move 2 out of 2 hds from ntfs, this will not be fun
[06:52:07] <Error_e^ipi> xfs allows you to lose a *LOT* of data, very quickly
[06:52:20] <ibb> and having to preserve the information, i started on one but will take time
[06:52:35] <ibb> Error_e^ipi: lol
[06:52:36] <Error_e^ipi> do not under any circumstances use XFS without some serious power backup
[06:52:46] <ibb> Error_e^ipi: but i am not looking for that trouble again
[06:52:57] <Error_e^ipi> it also writes slowly, but that's *shrug*
[06:52:58] <jamesd> xfs is a fine filesystem designed 10 years ago, it was state of the art,   ZFS is an awesome filesystem designed 2 years ago, with no preconceived limitations.
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[06:53:41] <ibb> that is my trouble now, i am moving the info to xfs partition for temp use but its cramed
[06:54:08] <ibb> and growing, with the ntfs partition that i will make into i dont know now
[06:54:21] <Error_e^ipi> zfs allows you to arbitrarily add drives
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[06:54:32] <Error_e^ipi> it's pretty neat
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[06:55:02] <ibb> it sounds amazing, but the thing is that i have to worry about the system identifying the xfs partition first
[06:55:14] <jamesd> ibb, visit your local electronics super store with a  liberal return policy... buy a large sata/eide drive..install.. backup data, reformat the disk to the filesystem of your choice, copy back... wipe new drive, return drive....  S.O. is happy.. and data is moved.
[06:55:17] <ibb> or ext3 or ntfs so to move the data
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[06:56:59] <ibb> jamesd, that might be ebay
[06:57:19] <jamesd> ibb, most of ebay does not have a liberal return policy...
[06:57:32] <ibb> i am only kiding
[06:58:08] <jamesd> shouldn't you be having another beer or something.. the Da Bears won.
[06:58:23] <ibb> they did win, awsome
[06:58:30] <ibb> man, by a big margin
[06:58:38] <jbk> hehe
[06:58:45] <jbk> this superbowl's gonna be interesting
[06:58:52] <jamesd> yeap.. but they still lost to the packers :-)
[06:58:55] <ibb> colt vs bears
[06:58:56] <Tpenta> so who is in the superbowl?
[06:59:08] <jbk> i grew up in nw indiana (thus a bears fan), but my sister and brother-in-law live in indy (and are colts fans)
[06:59:33] <jbk> Tpenta: chicago bears vs indianapolis colts
[06:59:36] <Tpenta> ok
[06:59:46] <jbk> battle of the flyover states :)
[06:59:47] <ibb> i think bears will go all the way
[06:59:58] <jbk> or i-65
[07:00:03] <jamesd> who ever though those two would meet, at the beginning of the season.
[07:00:04] <ibb> lol
[07:00:06] * Tpenta longs for the golden days of teh niners
[07:00:46] <ibb> good old rough days
[07:00:53] <jbk> the colts/patriots game was pretty good too
[07:01:05] <ibb> last minute point
[07:01:11] <ibb> by colts
[07:02:04] <ibb> 38 - 34
[07:03:35] <ibb> got to go to sleep and wake up to the world of finance
[07:05:36] <jbk> i don't even want to imagine what chicago's like
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[07:10:07] <elektronkind> I'm near baltimore. we aren't bears fans, and sure as hell aren't colts fans
[07:10:27] <elektronkind> there were a lot of people here last week wearing Ravens jerseys with "Unitas" on the back
[07:10:46] <ibb> what choice of teams do u have for superbowl then, u not going to watch?
[07:11:26] <elektronkind> to be honest I'm not a big football fan. it's a boring game to me with too much stop and go.
[07:11:58] <ibb> i think of it as the war game of the 15th century in the 21th century
[07:12:33] <Tpenta> I think of it more like a strategy game (eg chess) with the posisblilty for serious injury
[07:12:35] <elektronkind> that's a good way to put it
[07:13:11] <ibb> chess is kinda the same thing too
[07:13:12] <elektronkind> now cricket, that's packed with excitement
[07:13:37] <ibb> i dont even know about that game, where do u watch it? channel
[07:13:45] * elektronkind smirks at all you commonwealthers
[07:14:25] <ibb> elektronkind: u are one of us, dont smirk self, is one geek rule
[07:14:40] <elektronkind> ibb: cricket games can last the whole day. sometimes more.
[07:14:53] <ibb> how do they play it
[07:14:56] <elektronkind> so much that there are lunch and dinner breaks
[07:15:00] <boyd> elektronkind: Test matches are 5 days normally
[07:15:07] <elektronkind> dunno. lots of beer is involved I think
[07:15:13] <Tpenta> only a day, come on tests (unless we are playiong england) go 5 days
[07:15:20] <elektronkind> geez
[07:15:23] * Tpenta grins at boyd
[07:15:35] <boyd> :)
[07:15:48] <Tpenta> actually the one day vs NZ was a tight one last night
[07:16:11] * boyd missed it :(
[07:16:42] <elektronkind> holy cow
[07:16:45] <elektronkind> from wikipedia:
[07:16:46] <elektronkind> The longest Test on record was between South Africa and England in Durban, South Africa. The game started on 3 March 1939 and play continued on the 4th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 13th and the 14th. Play was scheduled for the 11th, but none was possible because of rain, giving 9 days of actual, and 10 days of scheduled play.
[07:16:55] <boyd> elektronkind: "One day matches" are the modern short version of the game
[07:17:51] <Tpenta> I thin that McMillan had no moral right to demand that hussey walk for a caught behind (video showed umpire correct, not out) when he was given not out and refused to walk when he was on 1 (and video showed umpire wrong and he got a thick edge that he must have felt)
[07:18:14] <Tpenta> McMillan went on to score 89 and rescue NZ
[07:18:25] <Tpenta> they have an even shorter version of the game now called 20/20
[07:18:26] * boyd grumbles about kiwis
[07:18:47] * boyd wonders why he can't find a terminal font he wants to look at in b55
[07:19:38] <Tpenta> bracken nearly scored the winning runs, if he had hit it a liitle harder he would have scored a 6. As it was he got 4, got out then hussey belted a 6.
[07:19:44] <boyd> Why doesn't the font I get in the terminal bear any resemblance to the one I see in the font selection box preview?
[07:19:45] <ibb> good night , i am out
[07:19:56] <boyd> Tpenta: phew
[07:20:03] <Tpenta> http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/cbs/engine/current/match/249229.html
[07:21:11] <boyd> Close indeed
[07:21:32] <Tpenta> it could have been very different if mcmillan had been given out for 1
[07:21:37] <boyd> Indeed
[07:21:38] <Tpenta> which he should have been
[07:22:38] <Tpenta> aus is now in the finals
[07:23:25] <boyd> Since there's only 3 teams in the series, and one of them is England, they could have just skipped to the finals, IMHO
[07:23:32] <Tpenta> :)
[07:23:41] <Tpenta> england needs the match practice for the world cup
[07:23:52] <Tpenta> and truth be told, they *are* improving
[07:24:59] <boyd> Grrr... why does the font selector show a nice, smoothed font and the terminal window uses a jaggy POS?
[07:27:20] <boyd> Well, I'm gonna hit the road.
[07:27:24] <boyd> Seeya Tpenta
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[07:47:02] <Viking667> anyone alive here?
[07:47:23] <Triskelios> no
[07:47:30] <Viking667> hm.
[07:47:35] <Viking667> pity that.
[07:48:03] <Triskelios> boyd: "Monospace" is a weird alias for a bunch of different fonts, gnome-terminal picks a different one for each locale
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[08:00:53] <galt> anyone get the webconsole issue on NV55b/saprc?
[08:01:22] <galt> it LOOKS like a trivial syntax error in the manifest, but my manifest-fu is weak
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[09:54:01] <twincest> i don't suppose anyone has run solaris on the dell poweredge 1950?
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[09:54:48] <steph> hi thre
[09:56:44] <steph> is there a "supported hardware" list available (for opensolaris) - i'm searching a scsi controller with an external hd68 connector and which is supported by opensolaris
[09:58:19] <Doc> sparc or x86?
[09:58:56] <steph> x2200m2 -> x86_64
[09:59:33] <steph> therefore i need a controller with pcie
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[10:01:07] <Doc> no such thing
[10:01:36] <Doc> you'll need to get an SE/LVD card, and an SE/HVD converter
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[10:03:10] <Stric> just hd68 doesn't say if it's hvd or lvd..
[10:03:31] <Doc> ohh..  i read hvd for some reason
[10:03:42] <Stric> (or even differential at all)
[10:03:45] <Doc> if it's SE, just buy an LVD card and a suitable cable
[10:03:53] <Stric> yep
[10:04:07] <Doc> no LVD uses HD68 as far as i'm aware
[10:04:20] <steph> Stric: the customer who ordered the stuff just told me he has an external scsi storage with hd68 connector.. i think i have to ask him again to describe the connector correct
[10:04:56] <Stric> steph: the problem is.. that hd68 can either be "normal" (Single-Ended) or High Voltage Differential
[10:05:07] <steph> yea
[10:05:16] <Stric> if it's HVD and you connect to your new card (which probably is Low Voltage Diff), bad stuff can happen
[10:06:06] <steph> so there are only two types, hd68/lvd or hd68/hvd ?
[10:06:13] <steph> so high or low voltage
[10:06:36] <Stric> don't know if I've seen hd68/lvd, but hd68/notvoltagedifferential..
[10:06:54] <steph> ah ok..
[10:07:02] <steph> i'll ask him.
[10:07:52] <Stric> if the scsi symbol is <>, it's SE and <>> it's some form of voltage diff.. if it's VD and it's new, it's most probably LVD
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[10:10:00] <Stric> http://scsifaq.paralan.com/scsifaqanswers4.html  <- se bottom for logos
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[10:11:37] <Stric> I think it was a biig mistake to make connectors physically but not electrically compatible..
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[10:12:15] <andersmo> naaah, it drives hardware sales due to replacements of fried cards! ;)
[10:12:35] <Stric> yeah. great. :P
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[10:13:05] <Posixzombie> is there a way to cause a packet to go out
[10:13:16] <trygvis> go out?
[10:13:18] <Posixzombie> through a specidied nic
[10:13:36] <andersmo> ping -i ?
[10:13:44] <Doc> flowers?
[10:13:50] <Posixzombie> like SO_BINDTODEVICE in solaris
[10:13:57] <Posixzombie> for (setsockopt
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[10:24:19] <raph_ael> hello
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[10:25:25] <cat_boiln_point> ok
[10:25:53] <cat_boiln_point> SUN I do not completely trust because I always sense them trying to confuse people, in order to sell...
[10:26:03] <cat_boiln_point> I am trying to find the opensolaris ISO
[10:26:21] <cat_boiln_point> but it seems that the best things would be to use solaris 10 which is a free download?
[10:26:40] <cat_boiln_point> Just getting java can be a hassle on the sun site.
[10:26:49] <cat_boiln_point> jdk jre j2sdk lol
[10:27:03] <andersmo> cat_boiln_point: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/about/distributions/
[10:27:12] <cat_boiln_point> Sun has to realize that this hurts them when dealing with at least semi technical peple...
[10:27:33] <andersmo> cat_boiln_point: opensolaris is a code base, not a complete working operating system. The link above links to a few complete distributions.
[10:27:40] <oxygene> cat_boiln_point: there is no "opensolaris iso" - opensolaris is source only. solaris express, belenix, schillix, nexenta, martux etc. are based on this source and might provide iso files with binaries and installer
[10:28:43] <cat_boiln_point> http://whacked.net/2005/06/21/confused-so-was-i
[10:28:46] <cat_boiln_point> see this?
[10:29:03] <cat_boiln_point> wow
[10:29:12] <cat_boiln_point> ok so solaris 10 according to this site is free
[10:29:17] <cat_boiln_point> ...............
[10:29:28] <cat_boiln_point> See Im confused, and Im a fulltime linux admin.
[10:29:33] <cat_boiln_point> This is not an accident.
[10:29:50] <cat_boiln_point> ...
[10:30:13] <oxygene> it's no accident - it's just that you're used to using linux, not solaris
[10:30:14] <sniffy> cat_boiln_point, Uhm.
[10:30:37] <oxygene> different project -> different organisation
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[10:31:11] <sniffy> cat_boiln_point, It's been a while since solaris wasn't free in any sense than except support. Anyhow it's clear if you click the "get" button. If there's no price - free. I even think they show the price tag "free" if memory serves.
[10:31:33] <cat_boiln_point> ok
[10:31:39] <cat_boiln_point> what about applications?
[10:32:10] <sniffy> "
[10:32:13] <cat_boiln_point> er ok let me start at the beginning.......can I downlaod a soalrsi 10 ISO and get it up n running on my i686 pc?
[10:32:20] <sniffy> "The free and open source Solaris Operating System\u2014available on hundreds of x64/x86 platforms and ..."
[10:32:37] <cat_boiln_point> are updates free?
[10:32:43] <oxygene> cat_boiln_point: if your hardware isn't too obscure, it should work
[10:32:48] <cat_boiln_point> can I run firefox? xwindows?
[10:33:01] <cat_boiln_point> ethernet nics supported?
[10:33:06] <sniffy> cat_boiln_point, Yes, yes, and yes.
[10:33:16] <_tsoome_> cat_boiln_point: man google
[10:33:31] <oxygene> cat_boiln_point: to all points yes, as to ethernet, externally available drivers might be necessary (until they're merged into opensolaris)
[10:34:28] * sniffy wonders how even his CEO managed to find out that Solaris was free before asking questions about his memo
[10:35:03] <oxygene> sniffy: maybe he didn't know that he could ask weird questions on irc, and thus searched on his own?
[10:35:22] <sniffy> oxygene, Or just took time and read the information on sun.com as I pointed to in the notes.
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[10:36:12] <sniffy> I really don't get this bashing about information is hard to get. Come on - dokumentation for Linux isn't easily available either. It take sages to solve weird issues about LFS for instance. Google me here and google me there. ;)
[10:36:28] <oxygene> cat_boiln_point: as for updates, on solaris (both 10, which isn't opensolaris based, and express/11) you have to redownload the system and do an upgrade installation, if you want to go the free route. other opensolaris distros might handle it differently
[10:37:01] <cat_boiln_point> noooo, I can get solaris patches freeee
[10:37:09] <cat_boiln_point> with a simple email login
[10:37:15] <cat_boiln_point> I did it just last week
[10:37:30] <cat_boiln_point> and wow does solaris take a while to patch holyee sheit
[10:37:30] <_tsoome_> there are free patches and non-free
[10:37:39] <cat_boiln_point> oh yeah?
[10:37:48] <cat_boiln_point> well I got a big patch cluster like 140M
[10:37:51] <oxygene> cat_boiln_point: security patches for solaris 10, yes.. no other patches, for these you either need a support contract or you have to do upgrade installations
[10:37:54] <cat_boiln_point> seemed like only place to get em
[10:38:01] <_tsoome_> security and stability related patches are free
[10:38:07] <cat_boiln_point> hm
[10:38:16] <cat_boiln_point> so what patches are non free?
[10:38:19] <oxygene> cat_boiln_point: (and patches for solaris 9 or less are free, too)
[10:38:29] <cat_boiln_point> oh 9 or less
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[10:38:31] <Doc> oxygene: not for long...
[10:38:35] <cat_boiln_point> I was patching solaris 8
[10:38:36] <cat_boiln_point> heh
[10:38:39] <oxygene> cat_boiln_point: feature patches, "small" bug fixes which are not security related
[10:39:04] <cat_boiln_point> ok so for free soalris 10 I would need to nuke the box?
[10:39:09] <Doc> Security and Driver are the only ones free for sol10. Sol8 and 9 will be following soon
[10:39:14] <cat_boiln_point> when I wanted to upgrade to 11
[10:39:15] <oxygene> cat_boiln_point: "upgrade install" - emphasis on "upgrade"
[10:39:44] <cat_boiln_point> ok so how does taht work Ive never really done much with solaris........you can upgrade from the new ISO?
[10:39:50] <cat_boiln_point> without nuking the box?
[10:46:27] <cat_boiln_point> ok so I could buy this http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-Ultra-Enterprise-450-Quad-400MHz-Server_W0QQitemZ320072614799QQihZ011QQcategoryZ106272QQcmdZViewItem then put solaris 10 on it and load it with x windows firefox to browse net, and then hack postgresql on it and make it into a database website server?
[10:46:58] <cat_boiln_point> web enabled database server?
[10:47:04] <andersmo> Uhm, yeah. You could. But an E450 is a big honkin' beast. =)
[10:47:16] <cat_boiln_point> someone earlier said a 450mhz sparc si about 1ghx p4
[10:47:27] <cat_boiln_point> big is 99$ !!
[10:47:30] <cat_boiln_point> bid
[10:47:35] <cat_boiln_point> 2G ram
[10:47:35] <cat_boiln_point> !!
[10:47:44] <andersmo> do mind the freight and power costs. =)
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[10:47:52] <cat_boiln_point> ah
[10:47:56] <cat_boiln_point> power hog?
[10:48:32] <Triskelios> lplatypus: hey there
[10:48:37] <cat_boiln_point> Due to the weight of this item we will be shipping it via freight. Please e-mail me for shipping estimate.  frieght means train?
[10:48:48] <Triskelios> lplatypus: you were working on getting wine working, right?
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[10:48:59] <andersmo> Still, they can be fun machines, if you have too much spare rack space and don't mind paying for power. =)
[10:49:12] <cat_boiln_point> hm
[10:49:16] * andersmo is running som scalability tests on one right now.
[10:49:26] <cat_boiln_point> think taht thing will be bid up to like 300$?
[10:49:43] <cat_boiln_point> how fast is a sparc processor really when compared to a p4?
[10:49:58] <_tsoome_> depends
[10:50:50] <trygvis> andersmo: I wonder how much it would cost to ship that to norway
[10:51:05] <andersmo> trygvis: more than I'd like to pay for one, I think. =)
[10:52:14] <andersmo> trygvis: have you seen (let alone tried to lift) a 450? =)
[10:52:47] <trygvis> yes yes, there are plenty of them down stairs
[10:52:51] <andersmo> When those machines die, they have great second-hand-value as catapult ammo. =)
[10:52:56] <trygvis> hehe
[10:53:12] <Posixzombie> do we have linux branded zone in sparc ?
[10:53:22] <Posixzombie> or onlu in x86?
[10:53:40] <andersmo> We packed one of them full of old SCSI disks and installed sx:cr to play with ZFS. Just the right machine for that sort of job. =)
[10:53:45] <andersmo> Posixzombie: x86 only
[10:53:54] <Posixzombie> thnks
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[10:56:01] <lasseoe> andersmo: or rebranded fridges :)
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[11:03:58] <cat_boiln_point> so basically the price performance ratio of sun is not as good as buying AMD?
[11:04:12] <twincest> why not buy AMD from Sun?
[11:04:55] <lplatypus> Hi Triskelios
[11:04:57] <cat_boiln_point> amd from sun?
[11:05:12] <cat_boiln_point> Im reading some stuff about how most people overbuy cpu and underbuy ram
[11:05:19] <cat_boiln_point> http://www.softpanorama.org/Articles/Linux_vs_Solaris/sparc_vs_x86.shtml
[11:05:45] <cat_boiln_point> and how only T1 recent chips are competitive price performace wize, except for the opteron offerings
[11:05:50] <twincest> cat: "AMD from Sun" as in, go to Sun and purchase the AMD-based computing products they sell
[11:05:59] <cat_boiln_point> hm
[11:06:00] <twincest> (if you prefer opteron over sparc)
[11:06:05] <cat_boiln_point> are they cheap or wiked expensive
[11:06:16] <cat_boiln_point> I dont know enuf to judge
[11:06:23] <oxygene> cat_boiln_point: http://www.sun.com/servers/index.jsp?gr0=arch&fl0=arch4&gr1= then look yourself
[11:06:24] <cat_boiln_point> I was wondering about say I have 200$
[11:06:27] <lplatypus> Triskelios: winehq support for oblivion isn't really there yet, so I'm back to using cedega on linux... i've been meaning to try it in a brandz zone
[11:06:31] <cat_boiln_point> and wantt oget a new computer to experiemnt on
[11:06:40] <cat_boiln_point> or should I jsut download solarsi for i686
[11:06:48] <cat_boiln_point> and slap it on my celeron I have sitting here
[11:07:20] <oxygene> $200 - it's hard to get anything prebuilt that is remotely usable for that money
[11:07:35] <cat_boiln_point> really?
[11:07:38] <cat_boiln_point> shit
[11:08:02] <cat_boiln_point> I want to learn how to program servers to do lots fo work for me
[11:08:09] <cat_boiln_point> I have some old hp 360
[11:08:18] <cat_boiln_point> mostly 512 ram adn 1100 celeron
[11:08:26] <cat_boiln_point> I am running archlinux on 1
[11:08:29] <cat_boiln_point> as we speak
[11:08:36] <oxygene> that would work for experimentation and smaller jobs
[11:08:45] <cat_boiln_point> but want to explore freebsd and solaris if they offer more power
[11:09:18] <lasseoe> Power doesn't matter
[11:09:24] <cat_boiln_point> seems that ram is much more important than cpu from that essay
[11:09:24] <lasseoe> you won't learn faster or learn more
[11:09:40] <lasseoe> Just get started.
[11:09:43] <cat_boiln_point> well what is best way to learn then?
[11:09:58] <lasseoe> Try it, if it's WAY to slow, then upgrade
[11:10:01] <twincest> perform ritual sacrifices while chanting the Solaris administration manual
[11:10:34] <cat_boiln_point> well the speed of a system is how long it takes to compute the answer eh
[11:10:50] <lasseoe> well
[11:10:57] <cat_boiln_point> so you could say that how an app is programmed is vastly more important than the hardware or os
[11:11:02] <lplatypus> I'm just trying out sunfreeware... pkg-get is looking for binaries for solaris 5.11 which aren't there; what's the trick to grab the 5.10 binaries when running solaris express?
[11:11:02] <lasseoe> I assume you won't be trying to do DNA computations
[11:11:06] <lasseoe> in which case you should be ok
[11:11:11] <cat_boiln_point> lol
[11:11:57] <cat_boiln_point> how important is the cpu cache for cpu speed?
[11:12:28] <cat_boiln_point> i work for a website that rents movies over the net
[11:12:35] <cat_boiln_point> seems like programming it would be easy
[11:12:43] <cat_boiln_point> but its huge effort from many devs and admins
[11:12:58] <cat_boiln_point> java oracle tomcat dynamo and apache and some DRM
[11:13:18] <cat_boiln_point> with geofiltering and microsoft and real drm mixed in
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[11:13:30] <oxygene> you might want to look how portable the drm server solution is, then
[11:13:31] <Triskelios> lplatypus: try a different mirror? the repository is supposed to have a full set of 5.11 packages
[11:14:06] <cat_boiln_point> the site runs on huge boxes but has performace problems with a few dozen users
[11:14:09] <cat_boiln_point> seems wrong
[11:15:04] <lplatypus> even the primary site doesn't have 5.11 packages :-(  ftp://ftp.sunfreeware.com/pub/freeware/sparc
[11:15:14] <Triskelios> lplatypus: I'm just looking to run less complicated programs in wine, but it seems to have issues with threading...
[11:15:24] <Triskelios> lplatypus: oh, sparc..
[11:15:55] <Triskelios> err
[11:15:58] <lplatypus> same with i386: ftp://ftp.sunfreeware.com/pub/freeware/i386
[11:16:05] <Triskelios> pkg-get is csw
[11:16:12] <Triskelios> blastwave, not sfw
[11:17:05] <lplatypus> oh pkg-get is just a shell script, easily hackable... it is linked to from http://www.sunfreeware.com/
[11:17:38] <lplatypus> yeah I got it to work with the sunfreeware mirror by forcing OSREV to 5.10 instead of `uname -r`
[11:17:44] <Triskelios> heh
[11:18:01] <lplatypus> did you compile wine with pthreads or solaris threads?
[11:18:12] <Triskelios> tried both, iirc
[11:18:28] <Triskelios> pthreads and the "kernel threads" option
[11:18:43] <cat_boiln_point> so one could get into solaris
[11:18:44] <cat_boiln_point> 10
[11:18:56] <cat_boiln_point> and then switch all the intel boxes to solaris
[11:19:19] <cat_boiln_point> when solaris is on intel, do all solaris apps work on it?
[11:19:26] <lplatypus> I'd expect the pthreads to be better tested in wine, and I think the solaris pthreads library is mature these days
[11:19:48] <lplatypus> Triskelios: what kind of issues did you see?
[11:20:39] <Triskelios> pretty consistent deadlock in any app with a lot of threads..
[11:21:10] <cat_boiln_point> does solaris 10 come with a c compiler?
[11:21:19] <Triskelios> cat_boiln_point: yes, gcc
[11:21:31] <LeftWing> /usr/sfw/bin/gcc or you can download and install Sun Studio 11 for free.
[11:21:36] <Triskelios> cat_boiln_point: express has sun studio bundled now, also
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[11:21:49] <cat_boiln_point> whats in studio?
[11:21:51] <twincest> it does?
[11:21:54] <lplatypus> Triskelios: oh cool I didn't realise that
[11:22:00] <cat_boiln_point> express is solaris 10?
[11:22:07] <Triskelios> cat_boiln_point: no, solaris 11
[11:22:15] <cat_boiln_point> oh
[11:22:26] <cat_boiln_point> jeesh i dont know
[11:22:28] <LeftWing> Studio contains a C, C++ and FORTRAN compiler and some development/debugging/profiling tools and an IDE.
[11:22:37] <cat_boiln_point> Im not sure using solaris over linux or freebsd is economical
[11:22:42] <cat_boiln_point> I mean its free
[11:22:48] <cat_boiln_point> but the hardware support is a ?
[11:22:53] <cat_boiln_point> but it has more features
[11:22:55] <cat_boiln_point> hmmm
[11:23:02] <cat_boiln_point> hard to balance what is way to go
[11:23:13] <Triskelios> there's a lot of common hardware that works
[11:23:28] <LeftWing> You can always throw out hardware that doesn't work. =)
[11:23:38] <cat_boiln_point> so I could get good with solaris, and put it on any box, and use it
[11:23:41] <cat_boiln_point> all for free
[11:24:36] <cat_boiln_point> are there many startups using solaris now that it is free
[11:24:40] <Triskelios> twincest: 55b has a "developer express" option when you install and just plain "express"
[11:24:50] <twincest> interesting
[11:25:09] <cat_boiln_point> Im really mulling this over, solaris for free, wow
[11:25:16] <Triskelios> cat_boiln_point: joyent is a good example of a startup...
[11:25:21] <cat_boiln_point> with x windows and c compiler
[11:26:04] <cat_boiln_point> so I fI learn solaris I learn something with features that linux and bsd doesnt have, something massively scalable, free, and runs on intel etc hardware....
[11:26:30] <cat_boiln_point> that can handle boxes with liek 120G ram
[11:26:33] <cat_boiln_point> eetc.
[11:26:53] <cat_boiln_point> how stable is express? is it solaris 11 beta?
[11:27:20] <cat_boiln_point> will any linux apps that are distributed as source compile on solaris?
[11:27:37] <Triskelios> cat_boiln_point: basically. it has supported releases as well, although you're better off with s10 on servers
[11:27:47] <cat_boiln_point> ok
[11:28:08] <cat_boiln_point> and for upgrades I can upgrade withotu destroying the data on the box?
[11:28:20] <jteo> yes.
[11:29:05] <Triskelios> if you do a live upgrade you can also roll back to a previous version if the upgrade doesn't work for some reason
[11:29:40] <cat_boiln_point> radical
[11:29:55] <cat_boiln_point> so why dont mroe hackers grab solaris and start hacking?
[11:30:04] <cat_boiln_point> creating startups
[11:30:10] <cat_boiln_point> getting rich!!!
[11:30:23] <lplatypus> it takes more to make a successful startup than having good tools
[11:30:26] <cat_boiln_point> is i686 solaris fast
[11:30:32] <jteo> bs. all it takes is hopes and dreams.
[11:30:37] <lplatypus> x64 solaris is faster
[11:30:37] <cat_boiln_point> fast as bsd n linux?
[11:31:03] <cat_boiln_point> what is the x64 amd chip again? is that the opteron?
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[11:31:38] <lplatypus> any recent intel or amd chip can do x64
[11:31:49] <cat_boiln_point> http://www.pricewatch.com/brands/computer_systems_no_os/amd-1.htm
[11:31:52] <cat_boiln_point> look 200$
[11:31:56] <cat_boiln_point> opteron
[11:32:15] <cat_boiln_point> although from my earlier reading the guy said each cpu should have 4G ram!! would you agree?
[11:33:18] <lplatypus> of course more RAM is always nicer :-)  though what is actually required depends on what you want to do with the hardware
[11:34:52] <cat_boiln_point> liek e commerce stuff
[11:35:53] <cat_boiln_point> Generally it usually does not make much sense to order less then 4G per CPU on a typical transaction oriented servers. For example to order server with "top of the line" (at the time of writing) two 3.6GHz Intel X86-64 CPU and just 2G of memory while similar priced server with 3 GHz CPUs (which are twice cheaper then 3.6GHz CPU at the time of writing) and 8G of memory (that can be bought for a difference in CPU price
[11:36:01] <cat_boiln_point> http://www.softpanorama.org/Articles/Linux_vs_Solaris/sparc_vs_x86.shtml
[11:36:10] <cat_boiln_point> Im learning all the time
[11:36:18] <lplatypus> so Triskelios did get a chance to poke around in the debugger to see if the deadlocks appeared to be in the win32 application or in wine itself?
[11:36:28] <cat_boiln_point> how do I tell if my box is cpu or ram bound?
[11:37:36] <lasseoe> if it's ram bound you should see a lot of paging
[11:38:21] <lplatypus> if it's cpu bound you'll see cpu usage at 100%
[11:39:20] <cat_boiln_point> neither is the case
[11:39:21] <cat_boiln_point> lol
[11:39:32] <cat_boiln_point> linux does seem to pre allocate ram tho
[11:40:54] <lplatypus> if neither is the case then either your hardware has spare capacity or something else is the bottleneck
[11:41:06] <cat_boiln_point> this 1100 celeron 512M ram old hp screams with 2.6.19 kernel fluxbox and opera+firefox+gaim when compared to my xp box on the other side of the kvm switch here are home with e machine celeron 2600 1G ram
[11:41:11] <lasseoe> often I/O
[11:41:35] <cat_boiln_point> how do people test apps in the real world for perforance?
[11:41:40] <cat_boiln_point> performance?
[11:41:55] <Triskelios> lplatypus: not yet, last time I tried was about a month ago, and winedbg wasn't working properly
[11:42:28] <cat_boiln_point> Philip greenspun claims to have server half million computer web pages offa a oracle db running on a 167mhz sun box with 750M ram
[11:42:41] <cat_boiln_point> served, computed
[11:42:47] <cat_boiln_point> a day
[11:43:20] <cat_boiln_point> with plenty of spare power for some scheduling apps
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[11:43:58] <lasseoe> sure why not
[11:44:02] <jopi> Greetings
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[11:44:57] <cat_boiln_point> it seems if you setup a db right you can server tons of dynamically computed pages on very small hardware
[11:45:22] <cat_boiln_point> he also credits tcl and aolserver with connection pooling
[11:45:58] <cat_boiln_point> other programs aside from postgresql I need to learn more about
[11:46:05] <cat_boiln_point> that seem both awesome and free
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[11:52:09] <Doc> well, there's Microsoft windows
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[11:52:28] <Doc> although it's not really awesome. and it's not free. but other than that...
[11:52:39] <jteo> awesome is relative.
[11:53:08] <Doc> relative to a kick in the head with a steal-capped boot i suppose windows might be awesome
[11:53:19] <Doc> steel  too
[11:53:25] <jteo> i concur.
[11:58:51] <jteo> windows is quite awesome compared to a Zune.
[11:59:45] <Cyrille> windows is awesome compared to DOS.
[11:59:48] <Cyrille> MS-DOS.
[12:00:13] <lplatypus> some people only know windows... so windows 2003 is awesome compared to windows nt 4
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[12:22:28] <Kmays> http://www.sun.com/desktop/products/sunpcipro/
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[12:25:20] <lasseoe> didn't know Sun still sold PCi cards
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[12:29:00] <quasi> I used to have a couple of those cards with Ultra 5s probably 6 or 7 years ago
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[12:29:47] <lasseoe> me too
[12:29:55] <lasseoe> still have one in a box somehwere
[12:29:56] <quasi> sun sold a bundle of U5, pci card and 21" crt
[12:33:30] <jteo> wb Tpenta
[12:34:56] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Tpenta
[12:35:08] <Tpenta> :-D
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[12:43:23] <Tpenta> given that I've just finished building the encumbered bins for b56, I would be hoping stevel should be doing the b56 drop soon and I'll post the binaries in the morning
[12:43:26] <Tpenta> g'nite folks
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[12:49:39] <DerJoern> is there anywhere a regular package for dtracetoolkit to install it with jumpstart?
[12:50:03] <Doc> it's just a collection of shell scripts
[12:50:32] <DerJoern> jumpstart is also a collection of shell scripts...
[12:50:47] <Doc> exactly. and there's no package for it
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[13:11:03] <darrenm> WRT ZFS Crypto User Interface: When NOT using a hardware crypto device for key storage (ie a CA-6000) , how and when would people like to specify the keys for a ZFS filesystem that is encrypted ? [ purposely not giving you my current design options to try and have an untainted discussion ]
[13:11:44] <richlowe> Hm.
[13:12:01] <twincest> i'd like an easy way to keep the key on removable storage
[13:12:06] <richlowe> Nothing immediately springs to mind that isn't specificly evil.
[13:12:35] <richlowe> twincest: that'd be nice, yeah, if the key was assumed to be on storage of some nature.
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[13:14:01] <Doc> really comes done to why ppl want zfs encryption
[13:14:28] <Doc> if it's so that the failed disk they return to sun can't be read, then in /etc is fine (ignoring zfs root for a moment)
[13:14:33] <darrenm> richlowe: say a USB token ?  That would be covered by using the software PKCS#11 token pkcs11_softtoken and setting SOFTTOKEN_DIR to point to the removable media.
[13:14:48] <Doc> if it's so that someone that steals the server can't access the data then it's a different story
[13:14:59] <darrenm> the later
[13:15:13] <darrenm> plus the other reasons listed on the zfs-crypto project page on opensolaris.org
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[13:15:45] <xOmega> morning
[13:16:01] <xOmega> anyone heard the rumor that Sun and Intel are going to announce a deal today
[13:16:06] <xOmega> could leave AMD out in the cold
[13:16:19] <xOmega> heard it on NPR (marketplace.org) this morning
[13:16:48] <Doc> i would find that very, very hard to believe
[13:16:51] <hali> not before intel introduces something to compete with the hypervisor
[13:16:59] <hali> and they manage to sway andy to the intel side
[13:17:09] <richlowe> darrenm: my problem is that my initial preference is unworkable by definition. :)
[13:17:29] <richlowe> (storing the location of the keying info in a property of the filesystem that you can't read without the keying info, would be sorta useless)
[13:17:30] <hali> i could see a closer partnership between sun and intel, but not sun switching to intel procs
[13:17:40] <Doc> then again, it seems it might be true
[13:18:01] <darrenm> richlowe: so share the "evil" "unworkable" ones then
[13:18:02] <Doc> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37107
[13:18:26] <xOmega> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070122/sun_intel.html?.v=7
[13:19:07] <delewis> I just can't see Sun switching processors when they've got a product line that's committed to AMD64.
[13:19:21] <delewis> and Sun has become pretty renowned as *the* AMD64 vendor.
[13:19:28] <Doc> great. just as we go into a 3 day workshop with one of our big customers to sell them on the AMD stuff... blah
[13:20:05] <sickness> i'm back
[13:20:16] <darrenm> why lock Intel out if they can provide equivalent or better price/performance/power hardware ?
[13:20:29] <richlowe> darrenm: unworkable is the above, specified by FS property.
[13:20:48] <richlowe> darrenm: evil is my general opinion of encrypted filesystems that *require* manual key input on mount. :)
[13:21:04] <xOmega> time for the compiler folks to get to work now... make the intel hook just as good as the amd ones
[13:21:05] <darrenm> you assume that all properties need to be encrypted
[13:21:26] <delewis> xOmega, EM64T performance is fairly decent with Sun Studio.
[13:21:42] <delewis> its been awhile since I've tested some code, but it was on par with Sun Studio for what I was doing.
[13:21:56] <delewis> s/Sun Studio/gcc/
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[13:23:15] <delewis> Core Duo might require some different optimizations, like cache optimizations, but I can't see much else.
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[13:32:02] <delewis> even if the Core 2 Duo Sun Studio scheduling optimizations weren't on par with gcc, Sun Studio still is capable of a lot more optimization (IPO, various loop optimizations, etc.)
[13:35:23] <Stric> c2d is pretty similar to pentium m
[13:36:48] <delewis> ah, I thought it was closer to EM64T.
[13:36:53] <delewis> shows how much I know about Intel gear :-)
[13:36:58] <jteo> darrenm: i would prefer an implementation that at least includes the ability to store keys on a USB key for example.
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[13:37:53] <Vanuatoo> OpenSolaris supports Core 2 Duo, right?
[13:44:03] <twincest> so, does sun have dedicated marketing staff to leak this sort of thing before it's announced?
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[13:46:40] <Kmays> NetBeans 5.5.1?
[13:49:17] <Kmays> One day.. I'll be able to give up GCC totally... ;)
[13:49:27] <Kmays> o should I say.... G++
[13:50:18] <Kmays> Y2007 might be that year.
[13:51:52] <twincest> some of the C++ work in studio express looks nice
[13:52:44] <Stric> delewis: well.. c2d is a pentium-m with EM64T enabled.. kinda.
[13:53:52] <cap_> very "kinda"
[13:54:05] <Stric> it's way closer to a p-m than netburst (p4)
[13:54:10] <cap_> yes
[13:54:20] <cap_> but so is an opteron ;-)
[13:54:59] <Kmays> twincest: Yes, it is becoming comparable to some of the heavy-hitting C++ compilers out there with G++ compatibility and Thread Analysis.
[13:55:00] <Stric> delewis: I don't get what you mean with "being closer eo EM64T", since that's just 64bit mode..
[13:55:39] <delewis> Stric, EM64T is a bit more than just being "64-bit"
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[13:55:52] <delewis> that's Intel's implementation of AMD64.
[13:56:07] <Stric> delewis: it's still not a processor type/model..
[13:56:14] <twincest> i wonder if there'll be an Intel Endorsed Solaris where isainfo returns 'em64t' ;-D
[13:56:18] <delewis> Stric, what's your point?
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[13:57:03] <Stric> delewis: my point is that amd64/em64t is an "api" and the compilers are optimizing for specfic implementations (p4,c2d,a64,...)
[13:57:24] <Stric> but scrap this discussion, it's not that important..
[13:58:07] <delewis> Stric, and how is my question any less valid if you denote EM64T as an implementation of an API or ISA?
[13:58:50] <Stric> EM64T is the api, not an implementation
[13:59:24] <delewis> EM64T is an implementation of AMD64, which is a specification.
[14:00:00] <Stric> if you ask intel, they will say that EM64T is a spec and that they have implementations of that, for instance c2d ;)
[14:00:09] <Stric> but nevermind.. /me wanders off
[14:00:28] <delewis> Stric, fine, we'll say EM64T is a specification that's an implementation of another specification, AMD64.
[14:00:31] <delewis> :-)
[14:00:33] <Stric> deal! :)
[14:01:43] <delewis> twincest, the Sun Studio optimizations aren't near as "complete" with C++ as they are with C or Fortran, but this is understandable.
[14:02:26] <delewis> as are most of the optimizations that track data dependencies.
[14:02:46] <delewis> (type aliasing, etc.)
[14:04:56] <delewis> anyway, time to commute.
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[14:11:07] <twincest> hmm, he left, but the optimisations aren't my concern as much as the completeness of the implementation
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[14:27:06] <jteo> wb boyd
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[15:07:58] <edwardocallaghan> Hi all
[15:08:21] <kFuQ> sup
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[15:10:36] <jbk> morning
[15:10:43] <jteo> wb jbk
[15:11:12] <edwardocallaghan> morning indeed
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[15:14:23] <edwardocallaghan> I've been wondering something, Why is the memory footprint so big for Solaris ?
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[15:17:11] <darrenm> anyone know the status of the teamware-mercurial bridge post dboot putback ?
[15:17:22] <richlowe> it's still gone.
[15:17:28] <jteo> i concur.
[15:17:31] <richlowe> you should see a series of notifications when it comes back.
[15:17:32] <darrenm> the tip of the mercurail onnv/onnv-gate is still the xmemfs EOF
[15:17:39] <jteo> darrenm: yup
[15:17:46] <richlowe> Yeah, it died on the dboot putback and steve was out of the office the end of last week and weekend.
[15:17:55] <darrenm> I'm not on the notify list for it since I already get all the messages from teamware ;-)
[15:18:00] <richlowe> it looks to have failed safe from our point of view though.
[15:18:07] <jteo> darrenm: ...
[15:18:08] <darrenm> good
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[15:19:49] * delewis wonders whatever happened to open-Teamware.
[15:19:56] <Stric> edwardocallaghan: one thing to remember is that it scales up the more memory you have.. if you have very little ram, it doesn't use that much..
[15:19:57] <richlowe> nothing, I guess.
[15:20:12] <jteo> didn't joerg get it building?
[15:20:15] <richlowe> I still have hopes at least FileMerge will appear though.
[15:20:16] <delewis> richlowe, seems so :-(
[15:20:30] <darrenm> there is no open source teamware
[15:20:31] <richlowe> the rest while kinda neat, I guess, would take a lot of work to make actually useful.
[15:20:37] <richlowe> darrenm: there was a project last year to open it.
[15:20:40] <delewis> darrenm, there was for all of a day or so :-)
[15:20:41] <darrenm> what Joerg got building was the opened up source to make and SCCS
[15:20:49] <jteo> darrenm: my bad.
[15:20:54] <darrenm> Yes I really hope filemerge can be opened up
[15:20:57] <richlowe> darrenm: if you look at the older tools-discuss archives you should see mail from a DevPro guy linkind sun-internal people to it.
[15:21:04] <richlowe> 'linking'
[15:21:08] <delewis> unfortunately, most of the interest seems to have evaporated since then.
[15:21:25] <darrenm> yep I know about that message
[15:21:27] <richlowe> we need a decent GUI merge for the other SCMs.
[15:21:37] <richlowe> filemerge is nice (not great, but better than the alternatives I've used)
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[15:21:44] <richlowe> hopefully those two things will meet in the middle.
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[15:22:13] <darrenm> I haven't found anything functionaly equivalent and as easy to use yet
[15:22:25] <darrenm> still need to look at kdiff3 but that involves dealing with KDE!
[15:22:29] <richlowe> darrenm: the only thing I know of is its obvious successor in interest
[15:22:32] <richlowe> (bitkeeper's filemerge)
[15:22:33] <darrenm> something I haven't done before
[15:22:36] <richlowe> which is just as closed, obviously.
[15:22:41] <andersmo> mmmm, gvimdiff. =)
[15:22:50] <edwardocallaghan> Stric:Oh
[15:22:50] <jteo> real men use less.
[15:23:03] <darrenm> gvimdiff doesn't come close to twmerge (the less ambquoius name for teamware filemerge)
[15:23:27] <darrenm> real developers use a real merge program because they care about getting the merges right first time !
[15:23:30] <richlowe> meld is... odd, but tolerable I think.
[15:23:41] <edwardocallaghan> Stric:What is the Majuro bottleneck in Solaris then, IO seek?
[15:23:43] <darrenm> I've looked at meld and something just feels wrong about it!
[15:24:04] <darrenm> I've seen a mockup of twmerge done in python...........
[15:24:15] <Stric> edwardocallaghan: that question is too wide to answer
[15:24:16] <richlowe> the bigger issue I had with meld is that its SCM integration slows the whole thing down.
[15:24:18] <darrenm> near identical gui to twmerge but rendered by GTk+
[15:24:21] <Stric> edwardocallaghan: it depends on what you're trying to do
[15:24:30] <darrenm> which SCM integration with meld is that ?
[15:24:38] <darrenm> I was just having meld called from hgmerge(1)
[15:24:39] <edwardocallaghan> Oh sorry, I just wake up
[15:24:45] <richlowe> meld (natively) understands various, SCMs.
[15:24:53] <richlowe> though not in a way useful for hg merging, that I found.
[15:25:05] <darrenm> ah
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[15:26:00] <edwardocallaghan> I will be back later when I make more sense
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[15:26:36] <jteo> is there an actual working description of twmerge?
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[15:27:26] <darrenm> other than the man page you mean ?
[15:27:52] <jteo> is said man page available?
[15:28:03] <jteo> oh wait. i just came across the link.
[15:28:06] <jteo> ;(
[15:28:11] <richlowe> Yes, you can google up most of the teamware manpages.
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[15:30:17] <tomww> 1
[15:31:21] <darrenm> bugger, I think I've just f*cked up my zfs-crypto mercurial workspace by incorrectly doing the merging!
[15:31:22] <darrenm> argghggh
[15:31:35] <darrenm> got into a situation where I had to heads listed
[15:31:39] <richlowe> darrenm: I know of a couple of issues there.
[15:31:45] <richlowe> I maybe help to help dig you out.
[15:32:09] <richlowe> (one is that vi exits with an error if you make *any* error while editing (ie, hit d once too often, anything that causes an error beep), and hg treats that as failure.
[15:32:18] <richlowe> the other is that the RCS merge binary, for a time, would return 0 on failure.
[15:32:21] <richlowe> with the opposite effect.
[15:32:44] <darrenm> so here is what I think I did (problem is some of this was on Friday! and laptop has been rebooted since then!)
[15:32:47] <richlowe> if you screwed a merge and it's not wanting to let you remerge, you should be able to load Mq, strip the 'other' side of the merge, and go again.
[15:33:00] <darrenm> so I did an hg pull to get upto the xmemfs EOF changeset
[15:33:16] <darrenm> I had files that needed merging since there were ZFS bugs and features integrated since my last merge
[15:33:54] <darrenm> I ran hg merge but said no to all the "was the merge successfull" questions - using pretty much the default hgmerge(1) program - meld was my specified program to merge
[15:35:30] <richlowe> ... is there more coming, or is that the end?
[15:35:37] <richlowe> if that's it, you should just be able to run 'hg merge' again.
[15:35:43] <darrenm> I wanted to redo the merge this morning attempting to use twmerge
[15:35:59] <darrenm> when I ran hg merge it told me there were uncommited changes
[15:36:04] <darrenm> so I ran hg commit
[15:36:11] <darrenm> thats where I think I went wrong
[15:36:44] <darrenm> my head is now my "merge with onnv-gate" hg commit which is not what I think I want!
[15:37:47] <darrenm> hmn I guess I could revert the whole workspace to my last local commit of my zfs-crypto stuff and redo the hg pull from there ?
[15:38:11] <richlowe> You could, yeah.
[15:38:28] <darrenm> any other ideas ? or is that the safest thing to do ?
[15:38:48] <richlowe> if you commited the bogus merge, I can't think of much else right now.
[15:38:51] <darrenm> strange thing is the zfs module actually built without any errors and I know the code is "inconsitstent"
[15:38:52] <darrenm> thanks
[15:38:55] <richlowe> I'd probably use hg strip, rather than re-pull.
[15:39:16] <richlowe> (I think you should be able to strip just the merge changeset, and then remerge the two heads)
[15:39:21] <darrenm> so the away to do this is run 'hg log' find my last local commit I remember to be good and run 'hg revert -r <shcnageset>'
[15:39:35] <richlowe> revert doesn't remove the changesets, it just winds you back in time.
[15:39:40] <richlowe> if you do it that way, you'll end up with both merges present.
[15:40:34] <darrenm> okay I'll try that - after taking a zfs snapshot of the current state of the world, which is what I should have done this morning!
[15:42:05] <richlowe> I keep being bitten by the afformentioned merge(1) bug, and having to do similar.
[15:42:22] <richlowe> I think I finally removed RCS from every system I'm likely to ever merge on though, so hopefully that won't happen again.
[15:42:26] * richlowe has said that before, however.
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[16:04:01] <darrenm> okay I'm cheating zfs rollback to my zfs snapshot for early friday morning ;-)
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[16:04:13] <darrenm> I'll work out the hg rollback next time!
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[16:07:57] <jteo> real men use backups from tape.
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[16:08:20] <darrenm> yeah like I have a tape drive connected to my laptop!
[16:08:39] <nachox> morning
[16:08:42] <Stric> you don't even have an LTO built-in?
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[16:08:57] <darrenm> my lap isn't that strong ;-)
[16:12:48] <Berny> morning
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[16:27:23] <Berny> has anyone tried to "emulate" a hardware raid controller? i mean, i have a broken brownie controller for which no replacement is available. is it possible to read images off the disks and write some software to get data off the image files?
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[16:28:02] <ofu> Berny: depends... If you raid controller wrote the config to the end of the disk, everything should be fine
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[16:29:01] <Berny> ofu: config like what? everything was left at the default values, when the raid-5 was created
[16:29:15] <Berny> i assume the disks are ok. the controller just says "rom error"
[16:29:35] <Berny> and there seems to be no way to get a new compatible controller
[16:30:03] <Berny> so if i knew how data where written to the disks i should be able to reconstruct the filesystem?
[16:30:19] <jteo> only if you know the ondisk format of the volumes.
[16:30:58] <Berny> i don't know that (yet)
[16:31:13] <darrenm> richlowe: .hgtags file
[16:31:22] <darrenm> what do you know about it for the onnv-gate repo
[16:31:23] <Berny> maybe someone has some hints where to find infos on a 5 year old brownie AR800-RN
[16:32:18] <richlowe> darrenm: it's maintained by hg, it's where it matches tagname->cset
[16:32:27] <richlowe> darrenm: onnv builds are tagged when they *close* not as they finally are.
[16:32:39] <richlowe> (i.e., it doesn't take into account respins)
[16:32:49] <darrenm> my hg-webrev is triping over it
[16:32:56] <richlowe> really?
[16:32:57] <richlowe> mine doesn't.
[16:33:15] <richlowe> and I didn't do anything special.
[16:33:18] <richlowe> lemme look at yours again. :)
[16:34:10] <richlowe> darrenm: what's it doing?
[16:34:17] <darrenm> it is in onnv-scm now btw
[16:34:18] <ofu> who produced your controller? never heard of AR800-RN
[16:34:23] <richlowe> darrenm: yeah, I saw. :)
[16:34:48] <Berny> ofu: it's a "Brownie"
[16:35:02] <darrenm> ah bugger!
[16:35:06] <darrenm> bad nawk pattern!
[16:35:09] <richlowe> well, I found one bug.
[16:35:09] <darrenm> bad darrenm!
[16:35:11] <richlowe> where do you want it?
[16:35:16] <richlowe> IRC, bugster, or grommit.
[16:35:20] * richlowe would prefer #1 or #3
[16:35:31] <darrenm> IRC is fine
[16:35:40] <richlowe> darrenm:                 comm=`hg log -l1 $cfile | $AWK -F: '/summary/ { print $2 }'`
[16:35:46] <richlowe> is only going to give you the first line of the comment.
[16:35:59] <darrenm> yes indeed
[16:36:00] <richlowe> it would be easier, rather than that, to do hg log -l1 $cfile --template '{desc}\n'
[16:36:02] <darrenm> that is on my todo list to fix
[16:36:05] <richlowe> (and drop the awk entirely)
[16:36:12] <darrenm> yep
[16:36:24] <darrenm> that is closer to what I originally had and I was having problems with it
[16:36:33] <darrenm> I was using --style though rather than --template
[16:38:03] <darrenm> yes it does
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[16:38:22] <darrenm> and I was having issues creating the map file from the script properly so I did a temporary hack of using $AWK
[16:38:30] <darrenm> knowing fine will it would come back and bite me!
[16:38:31] <darrenm> and it has!
[16:38:40] <darrenm> glad it did so so soon
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[16:44:29] <Berny> heureka!
[16:44:35] <Berny> today is my lucky day
[16:45:31] <jteo> got your data back?
[16:45:45] <Berny> that crappy piece o shit just complete it's post
[16:47:09] <nachox> backup now :P
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[16:47:37] <Berny> ok now yeah yeah yeah
[16:47:51] <Berny> first don't power it off :-)
[16:48:07] <Berny> second find a box i can move near that thing to connect
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[16:58:13] <elektronkind> lots of sun+intel buzz this morning
[16:58:47] <trygvis> yeah
[16:58:53] <trygvis> I can't sun.com right now
[16:59:04] <elektronkind> http://www.sun.com/2007-0122/feature/index.jsp?intcmp=hp2007jan22_intel_curtain
[16:59:07] <elektronkind> I can get to it
[16:59:19] <elektronkind> that's all there is right now about it on sun.com
[16:59:39] <trygvis> so what are you guys hoping for? :)
[16:59:46] <twincest> i wonder what's landmark about it
[16:59:49] <elektronkind> I'm not quite sure what to home for
[16:59:52] <elektronkind> er hope
[17:00:35] <elektronkind> perhaps Sun is having an Apple-esque "G5 moment" regarding Opteron's future.
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[17:00:57] <milek> hi
[17:01:02] <trygvis> I would be really surprised if they're dumping AMD
[17:01:03] <elektronkind> hello milek
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[17:01:29] <elektronkind> I don;t think they're dumping AMD... perhaps just augmenting the product line
[17:01:36] <milek> f***k I've just lost access to data on ZFS hope I haven't lost data :(((((
[17:01:39] <trygvis> yeah
[17:01:48] <jteo> milek: stay calm.
[17:01:58] <elektronkind> milek: you SAN is down?
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[17:02:38] <milek> elektronkind: no, no san - those are my local disks in a workstation
[17:03:05] <jteo> milek: sharing the problem would help.
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[17:05:23] <milek> jteo: no, it's not this I reinstalled snv, unfortuanatelly second disk vtoc was re-initiialized and I had not copy. but still I could import a pool from second sisk (pool was on slice). Before I imported pool I created slice on first disk, and then of course see some cksum erros after pool was imported on that disk (I guess I didn't set the same slice) - no problem still. the I detached the first disk and everything was still fine.
[17:05:47] <milek> but after a reboot system couldn't import pool and now it claims there're no pools in a system (zpool import)
[17:06:07] <milek> format on the second disks says: /dev/dsk/c0d1s0 is part of active ZFS pool home. Please see zpool(1M).
[17:06:38] <milek> but still zpool import says there're no pools
[17:06:53] <milek> oooops, sorry - my fault
[17:07:06] <milek> it has actually imported a pool but claims there's corruption ot top-level
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[17:07:20] <milek> bash-3.00# zpool status
[17:07:21] <milek>   pool: home
[17:07:21] <milek>  state: FAULTED
[17:07:21] <milek> status: One or more devices could not be used because the the label is missing
[17:07:21] <milek>         or invalid.  There are insufficient replicas for the pool to continue
[17:07:21] <milek>         functioning.
[17:07:23] <milek> action: Destroy and re-create the pool from a backup source.
[17:07:25] <milek>    see: http://www.sun.com/msg/ZFS-8000-5E
[17:07:28] <milek>  scrub: none requested
[17:07:29] <milek> config:
[17:07:31] <milek>         NAME        STATE     READ WRITE CKSUM
[17:07:32] <darrenm> with respect to the webrev -p question from earlier
[17:07:33] <milek>         home        FAULTED      0     0     0  corrupted data
[17:07:35] <milek>           mirror    DEGRADED     0     0     0
[17:07:38] <milek>             c0d1s0  FAULTED      0     0     0  corrupted data
[17:07:39] <milek>             c0d0s0  ONLINE       0     0     0
[17:07:41] <milek> bash-3.00#
[17:07:43] <milek> well, c0d0s0 was detached by mee - I'm suprised it's still there
[17:07:57] <milek> and c0d1 definitely works as system is booted from it
[17:08:41] <darrenm> with respect to the webrev -p question from earlier: it is sometimes used during a big codereview to show the changes as the codereview progresses, ie changes from start of codereview as things get fixed before the full review finishes
[17:10:18] <richlowe> darrenm: did you see the note from the java guy who's name I forget, in that regard?
[17:10:27] <richlowe> darrenm: (and response)
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[17:10:53] * richlowe isn't seeing 'the webrev -p question from earlier' though.
[17:10:54] <darrenm> on this channel ?
[17:10:57] <richlowe> No, mail.
[17:12:59] <darrenm> richlowe: Stuart M ?
[17:13:38] <richlowe> Yeah.
[17:13:51] <richlowe> at least, that's the only 'webrev -p' question I can think of, and what your bit above reminded me above.
[17:13:56] <richlowe> I still don't see what you were actually referring to, though.
[17:14:03] <darrenm> that was probably it
[17:14:14] <darrenm> getting my communication channels mixed up ;-)
[17:14:34] <richlowe> I don't even fully get how I ended up Cc'd on that, so you aren't the only one. :)
[17:15:55] * milek will post on zfs-discuss
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[17:31:04] <axisys_> we are planning to replace netapp. looking for a recommendation.. something cheaper .. how about apple xserver or any sun product?
[17:32:32] <darrenm> axisys_: without knowing how much storage you need that question is impossible to answer
[17:32:42] <darrenm> bug have a look at the X4200 for starters
[17:32:59] <darrenm> and http://sun.com/storage/ in particular
[17:34:40] <darrenm> richlowe: are all the hg commands (say log in particular) supposed to be able to take a -R flag to specific which repository to look at ?
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[17:36:11] <darrenm> stevel since you just arrived seconds after I asked....
[17:36:16] <darrenm>  are all the hg commands (say log in particular) supposed to be able to take a -R flag to specific which repository to look at ?
[17:37:01] <stevel> darrenm: i believe so, yes
[17:37:07] <stevel> hg log seems to
[17:37:30] <darrenm> hmn must have the syntax screwed up then, can you give me an example please
[17:37:41] <stevel> hg log -R /net/tonic-gate.sfbay/builds/onnv-gate -l 5
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[17:38:35] <darrenm> hmn that doesn't work with an ssh://  repository for me
[17:38:51] <richlowe> darrenm: Most.
[17:38:55] <nachox> dennis was really sleeping? damn...
[17:38:58] <darrenm> it does work with a files based one
[17:39:02] <richlowe> darrenm: I have certain issues with -R and mv, and I advise not doing that.
[17:39:09] <richlowe> darrenm: it does, but it's fussy.
[17:39:14] <axisys_> darrenm: about 200G with expnadability feature
[17:39:24] <stevel> yeah, it looks like it only works with local repositories
[17:39:25] <axisys_> darrenm: we will grow
[17:39:33] <darrenm> stevel: bother
[17:39:36] <richlowe> darrenm: don't specify the full file path.
[17:39:42] <richlowe> darrenm: (ie, don't include the workspace root in the path)
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[17:39:56] <richlowe> hg -R ... log -l2 usr/src/Makefile.master works for me.
[17:40:05] <darrenm> where -R is ssh://  ?
[17:40:16] <richlowe> Oh, sorry, I totally and utterly missed that.
[17:40:26] <darrenm> thats the important bit :-)
[17:40:43] <richlowe> I wish I could explain how I was cheating with this stuff coherently.
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[17:41:00] <richlowe> beyond the need for bits of it to be in an extension, I think you could do the rest, otherwise.
[17:41:12] <darrenm> when using webrev with an ssh:// parent I need to find the rev of the files that the parent has for a given path so I can properly grab the "old" copy
[17:41:22] <richlowe> Yeah, that's the bit I cheat with.
[17:41:23] <richlowe> :)
[18:00:00] <darrenm> any way I can "easily" change the commit comments of changesets I haven't pushed yet but have commited locally ?
[18:00:32] <axisys_> darrenm: did u mean x4500 ?
[18:00:41] <darrenm> axisys_: yes I did
[18:02:41] <axisys_> i see apple xerver raid is pretty cool.. anyone used it ?
[18:02:55] <axisys_> i am looking at this one http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=15559A3&nclm=XserveRAID
[18:03:26] <salmandr> i run quite a few Xserve RAIDs
[18:04:22] <mrdeviant> i'm sorry
[18:04:41] <axisys_> salmandr: how do u like it ? would u rather use thumper or netapp?
[18:04:51] <axisys_> salmandr: just doing survey
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[18:05:36] <salmandr> i have had great luck with them
[18:05:49] <axisys_> i personlly would rather use iscsi.. unfortunately not available yet :-(
[18:06:06] <salmandr> keep in mind that they have 2 controllers, one for the left side and one for the right
[18:06:08] <axisys_> w/ iscsi i could use zfs
[18:06:25] <axisys_> salmandr: fiber ?
[18:06:28] <salmandr> so if you want one large volume, you have to use software RAID
[18:06:31] <mrdeviant> salmandr, am i correct in that the xserve raid doesn't redundant FC ports
[18:06:36] <salmandr> yeah, fibre
[18:06:54] <axisys_> salmandr: so i could attach it to a system and make zfs correct?
[18:07:38] <salmandr> mrdeviant: correct, each controller has 1 fibre port
[18:07:45] <mrdeviant> that sucks
[18:08:00] <salmandr> axisys_: yes, you could do a zfs mirror or JBOD
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[18:08:58] <axisys_> salmandr: awesome.. looks like xserver raid is lot lot cheaper that thumper as well
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[18:09:35] <salmandr> well thumper is a full server, xserve raid is just a storage device
[18:09:38] <salmandr> they don't really do the same thing
[18:09:52] <Auralis> and an xserv is much smaller in capacity
[18:10:25] <salmandr> right, you'd have to attach multiple xserve raids to get the space of 1 full thumper
[18:11:33] <axisys_> i wont need more than 7TB
[18:11:36] <stevel> darrenm: are you managing the changesets w/ mq?
[18:12:07] <darrenm> nope
[18:12:11] <darrenm> not looked at mq at all yet
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[18:12:16] <salmandr> axisys_: be sure to get the cache battery backup modules so you can enable write caching safely
[18:12:17] <axisys_> salmandr: i see xserv uses ultra ata
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[18:12:28] <darrenm> partly because I don't know if it will be part of the normal ON workflow with mercurial
[18:12:29] <axisys_> whats the speed?
[18:12:35] <salmandr> it increases performance significantly if you have a lot of random writes
[18:13:14] <stevel> darrenm: my personal opinion is that it should be - but it's not entirely intuitive, so we may need to do some work there
[18:13:34] <axisys_> salmandr: whats the disk rpm?
[18:13:37] <salmandr> axisys_: i get ~200MB/sec
[18:13:58] <salmandr> axisys_: 7200
[18:14:13] <darrenm> its the non intuitive part the worries me - it is so very different to anything most people are used to doing - at least thats how it looked to me to start with!
[18:14:36] <twincest> i found hg very confusing and easy to use wrongly
[18:15:00] <salmandr> axisys_: see http://www.apple.com/xserve/raid/specs.html
[18:15:15] <axisys_> salmandr: so just for users home dirs.. i should just get apple xserv
[18:15:26] <Auralis> the Xserv works btw with solaris as well
[18:16:05] <salmandr> axisys_: you mean xserve raid?
[18:16:06] <axisys_> Auralis: what u mean? it can run solaris inside or can be attached to a system whose OS is solaris?
[18:16:29] <Auralis> you can attach a xserver over fcal to a solaris system
[18:17:12] <salmandr> xserve is apple's server, xserve raid is the storage device you are looking at
[18:17:31] <axisys_> salmandr: correct
[18:17:40] <salmandr> it's a little confusing, heh
[18:17:55] <axisys_> http://www.apple.com/xserve/raid/ this is what i am talking about
[18:17:57] <axisys_> sorry
[18:18:02] <Auralis> yeah me too
[18:18:22] <Auralis> its just a simple array, can hook that up to a solaris box
[18:19:21] <Error_e^ipi> doesn't it still work out more expensive than a 3511 ?
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[18:21:29] <bougie> hello :)
[18:21:32] <Error_e^ipi> or a dell powervault
[18:21:49] <axisys_> Error_e^ipi: lot cheaper than 3511
[18:21:52] <salmandr> Error_e^ipi: list on an xserve raid is $13k in the 7TB configuration
[18:23:44] <Error_e^ipi> $8,900 from dell
[18:23:47] <Error_e^ipi> *shrug*
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[18:27:10] <salmandr> that's a good price
[18:27:21] <salmandr> of course if you have a sales rep or purchasing agreement you won't be paying list :)
[18:29:02] <Error_e^ipi> apple gives non-edu discounts now?
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[18:36:08] <salmandr> thats the impression that i get, although i guess i couldn't say for sure
[18:36:15] <salmandr> i don't do purchasing, heh
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[18:57:25] <nprice> So... Intel machines from sun, eh?
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[19:00:48] <Error_e^ipi> because who really needs I/O throughput anyways?
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[19:02:23] <g4lt-mordant> Error_e^ipi, like it's a major leap from amd to intel :/
[19:02:34] <quasi> Error_e^ipi: maybe that's it - the amd's were too good I/O throughput so they were eating into the lowend sparc - switch to woodcrust and they won't compete any more ;(
[19:02:48] <Error_e^ipi> heh
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[19:03:21] <sz1> maybe it'll give AMD incentive to get some Solaris drivers for ATI chipsets
[19:03:44] <Error_e^ipi> if the past is any indication, don't expect ATI drivers
[19:03:46] <Error_e^ipi> for anything, ever
[19:04:00] <Error_e^ipi> because that's how ATI rolls
[19:05:09] <Error_e^ipi> they can't even get windows drivers to continue to work
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[19:09:07] <g4lt-mordant> actually Error_e^ipi is right, the most stabe ATI drivers have all been third-party
[19:10:02] <Error_e^ipi> tbh, i don't think sun wants to sell xeons, but they *do* want intel shoving solaris down their customers' throats
[19:12:34] <sz1> well, why dont you get on the call and find out
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[19:17:26] <Auralis> how about because woodcrests are realy good chips when used right
[19:20:21] <richlowe> I think speculating about near any decision Sun makes is probably not worth the effort.
[19:23:54] <g4lt-mordant> Auralis, what, accelerated at 32'/sec/sec?
[19:26:37] <sommerfeld> as I understand it, it's not an exclusive deal; sun will continue to make amd-based (and sparc-based!) systems.
[19:27:46] <Auralis> g4lt-mordant: core 2 are excellent for desktops and most peoples workstations
[19:28:09] <Error_e^ipi> intel makes some bitchin' mobile chips/chipsets
[19:28:48] <sommerfeld> .. airlines benefit from getting boeing and airbus to fight over their business..
[19:29:09] <Auralis> the P4 was crap, everyone knows this, the Core 2 is a whole different beast and a very fast chip with good power consumtion as well
[19:29:18] <sommerfeld> .. and GE and Rolls Royce to fight over the jet engine business, etc.,
[19:29:47] <Auralis> and sun would be stupid not to sell boxes with those chip sif enough customers asked them to do so
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[19:31:48] <alanc> it would be the third time Sun's sold systems with Intel chips in (at least that I remember) - after the original Sun 386i systems, and later when we bought Cobalt and continued through the LX50/60/65
[19:32:08] <AbeFroman> they should do another cube form-factor system
[19:32:51] <Error_e^ipi> weren't those MIPS?
[19:33:36] <twincest> maybe intel will start making sparc cips
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[19:33:57] <Error_e^ipi> that'd cut in to their IA64 business
[19:34:02] <Error_e^ipi> and alienate both it's customers
[19:35:32] <alanc> HP & SGI?
[19:36:07] <Error_e^ipi> no, i meant both guys who bought one
[19:36:13] <Error_e^ipi> for using
[19:36:44] <alanc> oh, there were end-users?   I had no idea...
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[19:39:21] <twincest> error: cuz HP had such reservations about alienating two entire companies' existing users :)
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[19:45:53] <jbk> alanc: unfortunately, we're one of them :(
[19:48:10] <g4lt-mordant> twincest, yeah, HP was "hey, carly doesn't work here anymore, we don't alienate people any more"
[19:48:29] <delewis> I didn't catch all of the presentation, but I don't really see how Intel aligning with Sun is a bad thing.
[19:48:42] <delewis> that just means more customer choice, and more wide-spread Solaris adoption.
[19:48:54] <twincest> delewis: cuz cuz cuz hypertransport!!
[19:48:57] <twincest> <paraphrase #opensolaris>
[19:48:57] <delewis> can't go wrong there.
[19:49:03] <delewis> twincest, :-)
[19:50:05] <delewis> well, it could be worse -- "SPARC is being replaced by Intel chips"
[19:50:06] * delewis ducks
[19:50:26] <sickness> lol
[19:50:27] <g4lt-mordant> yeah, I can see THAT happening
[19:50:58] <delewis> g4lt-mordant, :-)
[19:51:08] <delewis> hey, SGI did it.
[19:51:17] <delewis> why can't Sun? *cough*
[19:52:02] <alanc> because Sun doesn't want to end up like SGI?
[19:52:09] <quasi> delewis: that's a sickening thought - a future in the clutches of ibm and the powah 5s
[19:52:14] <twincest> i'd love to see intel (or amd) based systems which aren't PC compatible, but rather have proper firmware, managability, etc
[19:52:31] <delewis> twincest, indeed.
[19:52:48] <delewis> that could only happen once there's a sufficient amount of Solaris adoption, though.
[19:53:17] <delewis> I imagine some un-publicized percentage of Sun customers do buy Sun hardware to run Windows and Linux on. You'd be alienating them in the process.
[19:53:22] <alanc> twincest: sounds like Intel Macs
[19:53:53] <alanc> it's easy to do when you control the horizontal and the vertical and don't worry about what other people do
[19:54:25] <alanc> but if you want other people's OS on your hardware, or your OS on other people's hardware, life becomes much harder
[19:54:52] <delewis> and that's the advantage Sun has had with SPARC over the years. You aren't going to have a customer-base come whining to you about Linux support.
[19:55:45] <twincest> alanc: i suppose.  i was thinking more E-class stuff
[19:55:46] <delewis> well, it might've been like that several years ago when Linux on SPARC and Alpha was "the next big thing"
[19:55:56] <twincest> (no reason apple can't mae those, but i guess it won't run solaris :)
[19:55:59] <delewis> and then people woke up with a clue.
[19:58:15] <delewis> hmm, this. "Please wait while the video is being archived. Come back later." thing is annoying.
[19:59:24] <CryptoDivinity> blastwave is god
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[20:02:34] * dclarke thinks "what did he say?"
[20:02:54] <dclarke> CryptoDivinity :  just a minor divinity actually
[20:03:21] <CryptoDivinity> well makes life easier :)
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[20:03:54] <dclarke> CryptoDivinity :  I'm glad I got *that*\ right
[20:04:41] * dclarke needs coffee
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[20:05:39] <delewis> being unable to do two simultaneous JDS sessions with SSGD is a bummer.
[20:09:42] <sz1> How'd it go, dennis?
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[20:15:39] <dclarke> okay .. I'm back with food
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[20:15:58] <dclarke> szl : its too early to tell ..
[20:16:06] <dclarke> szl : nothing has happened yet
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[20:18:41] <sz1> do you think it went well?
[20:22:20] <CryptoDivinity> I wonder if my enterprise 420R will be able to take a serial card designed for PC's I need serial ports
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[20:24:16] <jamesd> sounds possible just as long as its not a funky 8+ port version...  and it can handle being a non existing port..
[20:25:06] <CryptoDivinity> it's one of those funky 6 port ones...
[20:32:29] <axisys_> can I use thumper as a SAN storage?
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[20:35:11] <jamesd> solaris express community version has  iscsi target and initator, and does nfs, and samba can be added and it allready does ftp and http    which other protocols do you need.
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[20:39:43] <axisys_> jamesd: iscsi is what i am mostly interested to make use of zfs
[20:40:12] <dclarke> question : is this a SCSI controller/driver adjusting for slower disks? http://rafb.net/p/be9JXE45.html
[20:40:24] <jamesd> b55  makes iscsi as easy as  nfs  ... though you will need  b57 to make it work wtih windows  iscsi driver.
[20:40:41] <axisys_> jamesd: no windows in my environment :-)
[20:41:05] <jamesd> dclarke, that is a bad drive or bad cable.. or possibly a bad controller.. but i'm guessing cable/terminator.
[20:41:15] <axisys_> jamesd: could i use b55 and 3510 to get iscsi based fs?
[20:41:19] <dclarke> only happens at boot and then never again
[20:41:26] <dclarke> and no problems also
[20:42:01] <axisys_> dclarke: i get same problem too.. i installed glm patch
[20:42:06] <jamesd> dclarke, yes but it found the problem... reduced the smeed... possibly to a  narow scsi connection  ( read 5MB/s  at 8bits wide)
[20:42:20] <jamesd> er smeed  speed.
[20:42:36] <dclarke> axisys_ : glm patch eh ?
[20:42:45] <axisys_> dclarke: yep
[20:42:46] <dclarke> axisys_ : that sounds like the right place to look
[20:42:59] <dclarke> axisys_ : got a patch number ?
[20:43:09] <axisys_> dclarke: hmm.. i used to let me look
[20:43:19] * dclarke goes to sunsolve also
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[20:45:05] <axisys_> dclarke: still looking..
[20:46:00] <dclarke> me too
[20:46:45] <axisys_> http://www.google.com/search?q=site:sunsolve.sun.com+glm+patch
[20:46:45] <dclarke> 4196856
[20:46:51] <dclarke> bug 4196856
[20:47:35] <axisys_> ok
[20:48:04] <axisys_> jamesd: will iscsi work with 3520 or 3320?
[20:48:24] <dclarke> axisys_ :  http://rafb.net/p/EpNZX656.html
[20:48:24] <axisys_> jamesd: i think it will work with 5320
[20:48:29] <jamesd> not sure.. but you can export any zfs volume via  iscsi...
[20:48:53] <dclarke> axisys_ :  it says "There is no work around as so far it has been almost impossible to reproduce on a regular basis"
[20:49:00] <axisys_> jamesd: thats true.. so on the same token i could use apple xserve raid as well.. correct?
[20:49:09] <jamesd> yes
[20:49:35] <axisys_> dclarke: let me digg thru my old emails
[20:50:06] <twincest> dclarke: that only seems to occur if there's already a problem somewhere though
[20:50:18] <axisys_> jamesd: btw any idea when iscsi will be available on solaris ? not opensolaris
[20:50:25] <richlowe> dclarke: dup of 4341851 (which you *can* see)
[20:51:00] <jamesd> axisys_, i think update 4... but it may need more testing....  the initiator is in solaris u3 IIRC its the target that is lagging behind.
[20:52:25] <dclarke> looks like this is well documented
[20:52:31] <dclarke> and solved by the glm patch
[20:53:33] * dclarke thinks sunsolve is sooo clunky
[20:54:15] <richlowe> the fact there's bugs you can see via sunsolve but not via b.o.o is just outright apalling, however.
[20:54:28] <richlowe> (note that the original ID you mentioned is like that)
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[20:54:58] <dclarke> I don't get too twisted in a knot over that .. I want a solution .. not just information
[20:55:31] <dclarke> patch 109885-20 for Solaris 8 addresses the issue .. but there is no mention of patches for Solaris 10 or 9
[20:56:08] <richlowe> it was fixed prior to S9
[20:56:26] <dclarke> which means ... not required in S9 or S10 ?
[21:00:10] <dclarke> hrmm .. I'm sitting on a blog entry that .. is just inflammatory ..
[21:00:16] <dclarke> I think I'll save it
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[21:09:53] <sommerfeld> hmm.  that's weird.  for some reason, evolution crashing is taking down firefox and xchat.
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[21:12:49] <Gman_> sommerfeld, ooof, that doesn't sound right
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[21:17:12] <g4lt-mordant> that IS weird, especially in solaris, are you zoned?
[21:17:15] <richlowe> mornin' Gman.
[21:17:28] <Gman_> hey rich, how goes it?
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[21:24:01] <richlowe> whoa.
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[21:25:43] <Triskelios> dclarke: hey, we set up a semi-public blastwave mirror a couple of days ago
[21:26:32] <Triskelios> however, our pagerank is high enough that we're already on the first page of results for "blastwave mirror"..
[21:27:14] <dclarke> Triskelios :  go for it
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[21:28:12] <richlowe> Gman: just reading through all the /usr/gnu ARC bits, and waiting for the bridge to come back online.
[21:28:20] <Triskelios> so mind if I fill in the form to make it official?
[21:28:44] <Gman> richlowe, yeah, i saw those posts - haven't really digested it
[21:29:06] <Gman> richlowe, is steve working on it?
[21:29:07] <richlowe> there's a couple of bits I'm puzzled by, I must admit.
[21:29:13] <richlowe> is there really any legitimate reason to ship GNU yes?
[21:29:26] <richlowe> given the only behaviour differences I see in the appendix are the addition of --version and --help
[21:29:27] <twincest> isn't yes part of coreutils?
[21:29:43] <Darwin> "Do you have 4+ gigabytes of disk, and T1 or greater bandwidth to burn, for being a mirror site?"
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[21:30:10] <Darwin> it now needs about at least 12 gigs for a blastwave mirror :) that page needs to be updated I guess.
[21:30:30] <Gman> richlowe, no idea - i'd guess some of the autotool build envs use it
[21:30:50] <Gman> richlowe, no idea on the compat between the 2 versions
[21:30:55] <richlowe> I can't imagine a situation where the lack of --help or --version present a barrier to compatibility.
[21:31:05] <Gman> heh
[21:31:06] <richlowe> well, I can, but not one I feel worth actually supporting.
[21:31:13] <Gman> other than frustration ;)
[21:31:37] <comay> richlowe: although i don't know if GNU yes makes sense by itself, i think it doesn't make sense to pick & choose individual components out of coreutils
[21:31:54] <richlowe> comay: I was progressing through that thought process too.
[21:32:13] <richlowe> comay: I'm not sure what specific architectural difference it makes, honestly.
[21:32:14] <Gman> i'm looking forward to seeing how we build those bits
[21:32:17] <richlowe> comay: feel free to enlighten me :)
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[21:32:49] <Gman> i assume it will be ON makefile crack :)
[21:33:02] <Gman> (or sfw)
[21:33:05] <richlowe> If I recall correctly, the target consolidation would be SFW
[21:33:11] <richlowe> who use a different brand of crack. :)
[21:33:18] <Gman> joy
[21:33:20] <comay> richlowe: it likely doesn't make much, if any, architectural difference :-) but i'm guessing *some* piece of open source depends on it!
[21:33:48] * Gman hopes laca joins the sfw team ;)
[21:34:38] <comay> hey gman - that would be great.  either/both him and/or dermot
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[21:35:53] <Gman> comay, that would be pretty cool
[21:36:26] <sommerfeld> Gman/g4lt-mordant: (delayed response): no zones involved.
[21:36:39] * nachox wonders if now that intel and sun are buddies, intel will port icc to solaris :)
[21:39:00] <Gman> http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2007/01/22/opensolaris_sun/ is embarassing funny
[21:41:02] <Triskelios> hey, does "LC_ALL=ja_JP.UTF-8 network-admin"  hang for anyone else using b53 or later JDS?
[21:42:02] <trygvis> heh
[21:42:26] <trygvis> I wonder if sun is going to keep all it's "amd is so and so much better than a xeon" ads on sun.com now
[21:44:12] *** sahafeez has joined #opensolaris
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[21:44:44] <quasi> trygvis: otherwise there's all the vids on youtube
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[21:46:52] <pikapika> hello
[21:47:05] <axisys> is there a log somewhere for the chnl.. i lost connection earlier
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[21:48:17] <axisys> actually my question was if anyone knows when will solaris have iscsi available.. not opensolaris
[21:48:28] <trygvis> it already has it
[21:48:31] <trygvis> has for a while too
[21:48:37] * trygvis is reading the PDF as we speak
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[21:49:32] <axisys> trygvis: iscsi? not on solaris 10.. on solaris xpress yes
[21:49:44] <alanc> axisys: the welcome message each time you connect has the channel log URL
[21:50:16] <alanc> http://www.uwyn.com/drone/log/bevinbot/opensolaris
[21:50:23] <axisys> alanc: how do i call it now.. /topic didnt have ut
[21:50:27] <axisys> alanc: thnx
[21:50:37] <alanc> had to scrollback and find it
[21:53:18] <axisys> i see the answer.. jamesd replied saying sol u4
[21:53:21] <axisys> thnx
[21:53:45] <axisys> any word when would sol 10 u4 be released?
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[21:55:00] <jmcp> morning all
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[21:55:47] <axisys> i know sun won't support sxcr.. but i really want to use iscsi.. is there any commercial support available for sxcr/opensolaris? joyant?!
[21:56:04] <jmcp> no
[21:56:15] <jmcp> joyent is a customer, not a Sun service provider
[21:57:00] <axisys> jmcp: ok..
[21:57:21] <trygvis> axisys: I have iscsi in my solaris installation ..
[21:57:22] <axisys> so is there any commercial support available for opensolaris?
[21:57:45] <trygvis> which is 06/6 IIRC
[21:57:54] <sommerfeld> my understanding is that there is limited commercial support available for the original "solaris express"
[21:58:10] <axisys> sommerfeld: from sun?
[21:58:22] <g4lt-mordant> you've got to tell them, joyent green is customers, dammit
[21:58:33] <quasi> sommerfeld: yeah, I've seen that too
[21:58:33] <axisys> trygvis: may be iscsi is there but not fully implemented yet..
[21:59:15] <richlowe> didn't 11/06 contain the target?
[21:59:22] <richlowe> (10 FCS had the initiator)
[22:01:13] <kumamoto> does installing opensolaris have the option not to install the desktop
[22:01:22] <elektronkind> 11/06 does not have iscsi target
[22:01:29] <kumamoto> but use it a headless server?
[22:01:48] <elektronkind> rick mcneal on the storage list has mentioned u4 as the target for a production iscsi target server
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[22:02:00] <sommerfeld> axisys: according to http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/solaris-express/ , yes, from sun.
[22:05:14] <kumamoto> http://frsun.downloads.edgesuite.net/sun/07C00892/index.html  - interesting beginners tutorial
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[22:16:17] <richlowe> elektronkind: ah.
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[22:26:03] <Error_e^ipi> was the IA scheduler in solaris9 ?
[22:26:15] <Error_e^ipi> because this blade150 i'm on @ school redraws like crap
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[22:28:38] <alanc> IA scheduler has been in since 2.3 or 2.4 or so
[22:29:07] <alanc> but sunblade 150 on board graphics are just crap, especially compared to modern chips (i.e. those about 10 years newer than the Rage128 on the SB150)
[22:31:50] <Error_e^ipi> *nod*
[22:31:53] <Error_e^ipi> it's pretty terrible
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[22:50:36] <axisys> sommerfeld: thnx
[22:51:32] <axisys> solaris xpress for sol 12/06 has iscsi?
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[22:52:02] <Error_e^ipi> axisys: SXCR contains an iscsi target & initiator
[22:52:12] <g4lt-mordant> axisys, NV55b does, yes.  SX I don't know
[22:52:32] <hspaans> g'day to all
[22:52:34] <Error_e^ipi> hasn't it been in there for a while already?
[22:52:44] <boyd> Morning, all
[22:52:59] <axisys> Error_e^ipi: is that all i need to get zfs working w/ iscsi ?
[22:55:18] <Gman> anyone happen to know what config option i need to set in thunderbird to stop the cursor flying to the end of the quotes when i hit 'reply'?
[22:56:42] <jmcp> Gman: account settings->(account)->composition+addressing then look at the button underneath "automatically quote.... then"
[22:56:54] <jmcp> Gman: please don't tell me you want to top post?
[22:57:15] <Gman> gar, of course [sigh]
[22:57:26] * Gman hates how thunderbird has multiple preferences
[22:57:40] <Gman> jmcp, i usually put 'hey/hi' at the top, then edit the rest of the post ;)
[22:57:58] <jmcp> phew
[22:58:24] * Odin-LAP knows people who swear top-posting is the only way to do things right.
[22:58:48] <hspaans> to be ignored you mean?
[22:58:59] * Odin-LAP incidentally also doesn't know an assassin. There is clearly no connection between the two statements.
[22:59:08] <hspaans> or to be teached a lesson? bofh-style ;-)
[22:59:26] <boyd> The option should be called "Ignore many years of convention and etiquette"
[22:59:41] <Odin-LAP> boyd: Not to mention common sense.
[22:59:46] * boyd nods
[22:59:52] * hspaans nods
[23:00:04] <Odin-LAP> "Yes, I perfectly agree," followed by ten different statements can be a little confusing...
[23:00:21] <boyd> Or even "Look like a microsoft using clueless idiot"
[23:03:42] <postwait> So, I just ran pkgadd -d . SUNWcsign
[23:04:03] <postwait> AndI got the error inappropriate ioctl for device
[23:04:14] <postwait> unable to open mount table /etc/mnttab
[23:04:29] <postwait> And, go figure, my mount table is "gone"
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[23:08:41] <jmcp> postwait: you didn't need that anyway
[23:08:46] <postwait> right...
[23:09:10] <postwait> Without a mnttab.. I'm pretty f'd.
[23:09:26] <postwait> I didn't think pkgadd was supposed to fuck my mount table.
[23:09:28] <twincest> /etc/mnttab on mnttab read/write/setuid/devices/dev=4440001 on Thu Jan  4 00:01:00 2007
[23:09:35] <twincest> can't you just remount it?
[23:09:42] <postwait> mount /etc/mnttab
[23:10:10] <jmcp> mount -o remount /etc/mnttab >?
[23:10:27] <postwait> mountpoint cannot be determined
[23:10:32] <postwait> I suppose I should be more specific
[23:11:04] <postwait> mount -F mnttab /etc/mnttab /etc/mnttab
[23:11:17] <postwait> mount: Operation not applicable to FSType mnttab
[23:11:34] <alanc> hmm, " the OSDL and FSG have agreed to merge to become the Linux Foundation" - guess they've decided Linux is the only Open Source or Free Software they want to deal with, and everyone else can ignore them...
[23:11:48] <postwait> mntfs
[23:11:57] <postwait> mount -F /mntfs /etc/mnttab /etc/mnttab
[23:12:08] <postwait> Sounds like a big ol bug to me.
[23:12:33] <Odin-LAP> FSG?
[23:12:49] <alanc> Free Standards Group
[23:13:16] <alanc> they did the LSB standards, but also standards like Printing & Accessibility that Sun was involved in
[23:13:55] <Plaidrab> It is a little disconcerting
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[23:15:14] <uncertainty> heya everybody :)
[23:16:07] <postwait> bug 6452799
[23:16:10] <postwait> hrmm
[23:16:12] <postwait> bummer
[23:17:39] <uncertainty> is there a way to get from an older nevada build (45) to solaris 11/06?
[23:17:49] <jmcp> uncertainty: no
[23:17:56] <alanc> for instance, Sun's Norm Jacobs, who works on Solaris printing, was the chair of the Free Standards Group Open Printing Working Group - will they still want him in the Linux Foundation Printing group?
[23:18:09] <uncertainty> mh damn, thats too bad :/
[23:18:12] <jmcp> well, short of backup, re-install from scratch
[23:18:21] <jmcp> why would you want to go *backwards* with your kernel?
[23:18:24] <twincest> who would use any standard from a group called the 'linux foundation' anyway?
[23:18:27] <alanc> uncertainty: Solaris Express 11/06 or Solaris 10 11/06?   for Solaris Express, just boot from CD/DVD and click upgrade
[23:18:38] <twincest> that's a 20 year step backwards in Unix interoperability
[23:18:41] <alanc> for Solaris 10, as jmcp says, that's a downgrade
[23:18:42] <sommerfeld> uncertainty: that's (mostly) a downgrade to older bits
[23:18:45] <Gman> twincest, yeah, i think that's a bad decision
[23:19:08] <Gman> it's certainly not going to help pushing stuff inside sun
[23:19:45] <alanc> Gman: aren't you just thrilled at the announced tighter integration of the Portland desktop projects into the LSB and increased pressure to adopt them?
[23:19:56] <Gman> heh
[23:20:02] <uncertainty> okay, to clarify: i meant solaris express 11/06
[23:20:03] <Gman> portland is really struggling
[23:20:40] <Gman> i can see why they merged
[23:20:49] <Gman> but moving things over to linux isn't really going to help anyone
[23:21:13] <hspaans> twincest: working with linux foundation can have an advantage, but I doubt it when everyone else also ignored previous attempts
[23:22:00] <Tpenta> my comment on the linux foundation is that they should be mor truthful in their goals, they claim to be for advocating open source software, what they mean is open source software on linux
[23:22:03] * Gman thinks it's a move to bootstrap osdl's fading cash
[23:22:05] <alanc> uncertainty: then it's just a newer build of Nevada and the OS installer should offer to upgrade, as long as you haven't done anything silly like BFU or use zones
[23:22:07] <Tpenta> it's a subtle but important difference
[23:22:29] <uncertainty> mh well, actually, i use zones...
[23:22:40] <jmcp> uncertainty: are they on zfs?
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[23:23:13] <uncertainty> yeah, they are on zfs
[23:23:23] <hspaans> Gman: the fading cash can be a good point
[23:23:31] <jmcp> then you can't do it easily
[23:23:34] <jmcp> uncertainty: I'm in the same position
[23:23:44] <uncertainty> damnit ><
[23:23:55] <jmcp> I'm planning to backup my non-OS content in my zone, then delete the zone, LU and then re-add the zone and its content
[23:23:58] <uncertainty> really, thats bad...
[23:24:00] * twincest wonders how long it can take to archive a webcast
[23:24:58] <Gman> twincest, let me know when they're done - i'm keen to watch it too :)
[23:25:17] <uncertainty> jmcp: i have a server, remote one, running nevada 42... lately i noted that it shows some... umm... unstabilities :/ so i want to get something more... stable
[23:25:57] <jmcp> uncertainty: mine is under my desk ... and I just want to get all the new features that are in a later build. Oh, and the Chinese locales
[23:26:39] <uncertainty> jmcp: have you experienced that: sometimes when i use ps, all the system completely goes nuts...
[23:26:46] <jmcp> nope
[23:27:00] <uncertainty> getting really slow and nearly unresponsive for about 5 minutes
[23:27:13] <uncertainty> then, it works for a while
[23:27:19] <uncertainty> and after some time, it panics
[23:27:39] <uncertainty> just going to update colloquy, brb
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[23:28:27] <uncertainty> re
[23:30:59] <uncertainty> jmcp: do you think there will be a possibility for a, ummm... more painless update including zones in the future?
[23:31:19] <jmcp> uncertainty: I believe it's being worked on, but I have no visibility on that project
[23:31:23] <sickness> isn't that already possible?
[23:32:19] <uncertainty> mh okay...
[23:32:22] <jmcp> sickness: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zones/faq/#sa_upgrade and http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/pages/2006112101/
[23:32:33] <sickness> tn
[23:32:34] <sickness> tnx
[23:33:50] <uncertainty> oh, thanks
[23:34:17] <uncertainty> jmcp: just noticed that i gave the wrong numbers, i got 49 on that box, not 42 ><
[23:34:27] <jmcp> I've got 49 on mine too
[23:34:32] <jmcp> I don't have that problem though
[23:35:22] <uncertainty> maybe it's something hardware-related... because, i have another 49 box here
[23:35:29] <uncertainty> and this one is running really great
[23:35:54] <uncertainty> i'm constantly using it for secondary backups, works great for me
[23:35:55] <jmcp> I'm using an ultra20-m2
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[23:36:34] <sommerfeld> hmm.  looks like onbot fell over
[23:37:12] <sommerfeld> got email for the putback of "6480626 contention on spa_config_lock on niagra"
[23:37:42] <uncertainty> how does this live upgrade thing work?
[23:38:07] <uncertainty> i mean i read through the docs on docs.sun.com but they seem a bit blurry to me
[23:39:14] <sommerfeld> big picture: you have two slices, each containing a full solaris install.
[23:39:41] <uncertainty> what if i do not have and spare space?
[23:39:42] <sommerfeld> while running off one, you copy your current install to the other one, then upgrade it
[23:39:58] <uncertainty> any, not and ><
[23:40:37] <sommerfeld> if you have no spare space, you can't use LU.
[23:41:16] <uncertainty> mhhh, damn
[23:41:38] <uncertainty> i have a mirrored disks setup, system is mirrored with svm and my data with zfs
[23:41:41] <movement> sommerfeld: it's been replaced by CIA-22
[23:42:07] <twincest> British Standards used to publish a hardcopy version of the C++ standard for a reasonable price, anyone happen to know where i might find a copy?
[23:42:16] <uncertainty> so might it be possible to tell svm to stop mirroring and just use the disk "normally"?
[23:42:17] <alanc> but isn't stevel's internal teamware -> external mercurial bridge still down so CIA can't see it?
[23:42:36] <movement> yes
[23:42:46] <movement> and onnv-notify doesn't have the email, and nor do I
[23:42:58] <stevel> yes - the bridge is still down
[23:43:00] <stevel> i'm working on it now
[23:43:17] <stevel> and once i get it up, it will undoubtedly flood CIA-22 and you'll see it quit with an 'excess flood' :-P
[23:43:27] <uncertainty> if i understood svm right, it uses dedicated partitions for metadata... so when i modify /etc/system und vfstab it should boot normally, without mirroring. or did i get something wrong?
[23:43:39] <movement> stevel: I think CIA is smarter
[23:43:48] <twincest> uncertainty: don't remove the mirror, just detach one side
[23:43:48] <stevel> oh okay. onbot used to flood :(
[23:43:55] <stevel> well, used to be victim to floods
[23:44:04] <uncertainty> okay, thats what i meant
[23:44:05] <twincest> uncertainty: then you get dN and DM as separate usable slices
[23:44:22] <twincest> where N is one side and M is the 'mirror' (which now only has one side)
[23:44:29] <twincest> you don't need to edit vfstab or /etc/system
[23:44:37] <uncertainty> oh thats fine :)
[23:44:44] <uncertainty> and then, i should be able to use lu?
[23:44:57] <movement> stevel: yeah, it was a piece of crap I threw together, that's why :)
[23:44:58] <twincest> i didn't follow the rest of the question so i don't know about your specific situation
[23:45:05] <twincest> but in general yes, you can use LU there
[23:45:27] <uncertainty> my problem is i have nevada b49 on a remote box and i want to get to sx 11/06
[23:45:58] <uncertainty> is it possible to lu without cds/dvds?
[23:46:18] <hspaans> uncertainty: wasn't SX11/06 b49?
[23:46:20] <twincest> it's possible to do it using a downloaded DVD image and a loopback mount
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[23:48:10] <jmcp> twincest: so when it comes to rebooting, does LU do the right thing wrt grub and wrt svm?
[23:48:15] * jmcp hasn't read the docs uet
[23:48:16] <jmcp> yet
[23:48:35] <twincest> jmcp: LU actually has special support to do the detch itself, i think; but i tried it once and i couldn't make it work
[23:48:41] <jmcp> oh
[23:48:42] <twincest> (possibly i read the manual wrong)
[23:48:53] <twincest> i did it manually though and it seemed to work fine but that was sparc, so no idea about grub
[23:49:05] <jmcp> guess I'd better RTFM then
[23:49:11] <jbk> heh.. oh to have decent firmware :)
[23:49:32] <jmcp> oh to have firmware *at all* on pc hardware
[23:49:43] <twincest> the new SVM docs do explain how to install grub on the other side of the mirror using the right devices and such
[23:49:50] <Triskelios> someone mind testing a JDS bug for me?
[23:49:51] <twincest> so i guess it should work if the admin followed those docs properly
[23:50:05] <sahafeez> jds is a bug
[23:50:14] <sahafeez> sorry did i say that outload
[23:50:17] * delewis throws stones at sahafeez
[23:50:18] <sahafeez> loud even
[23:50:18] <delewis> :-)
[23:50:45] <twincest> this reminds me that some time in the last 46 days, fedora broke the grub install on my laptop.  and i didn't notice until i took it away for the weekend.. and it wouldn't boot
[23:50:48] <twincest> linux <3
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[23:55:28] <Gman> "916 companion-discuss moderator request(s) waiting"
[23:55:30] <Gman> joy.
[23:55:38] <comay> lol
[23:55:43] <Tpenta> %spam?
[23:55:49] <twincest> Gman: hope your mailman is new enough to have the 'discard all deferred' button :)
[23:56:02] <Gman> Tpenta, no idea, haven't looked at them
[23:56:09] <Gman> chances are, desktop-discuss is equally as high
[23:56:30] <Gman> twincest, fortunately i do have a javascript to run on it
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[23:57:46] <uncertainty> okay guys, many many thanks for your help, i'll have to go to bed now :)
[23:58:29] <uncertainty> thanks again :)
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