[00:00:05] <BadKarma> and hezbollah were the first people to endorse her
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[00:04:28] <jamesd__> damm... it wont do it even with the environment set to tell it to shut up
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[00:10:54] <tomww> jamesd__: you can label your disks now? if not, really use both in one line as written above. NOINUSE_CHECK=1 format
[00:11:49] <jamesd__> okay.. i will give that a try else i will have to use sformat.. it may work better
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[00:12:55] <tomww> jamesd__: or use the hard way prtvtoc | changeit | fmthard :-)
[00:13:55] <jamesd__> yeah that sounds like a recipe for having to reinstall the box.
[00:14:09] <jamesd__> nope still not working
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[00:26:34] <lasseoe> I find that you need to disable swap and remove it from vfstab
[00:26:38] <tomww> jamesd__: don't know what is still open on the disk preventing this. swap -d  is already done? the other way would be a maintenance-boot (failsafe ramdisk) and do it from there
[00:26:39] <lasseoe> then it doesn't bitch
[00:27:07] <jamesd__> okay.. i will disable swap and give it a try
[00:27:18] <lasseoe> jamesd: try commenting it out in vfstab as well!
[00:27:41] <jamesd__> maintainance mode is my last resort...  i'm doing this from 8000 miles away... and / is on the disk...    and is mounted..
[00:28:13] <tomww> oh nice :-)
[00:32:05] * lasseoe sighs
[00:32:07] <lasseoe> I wanna go out
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[01:08:12] <kimc> just finished configuring the 3rd whole root zone in the mail server rebuild project
[01:09:03] <kimc> making these zones with the ZFS clone method is really fast
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[01:14:08] <Doc> you're using zfs for the zone root directory?
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[01:50:16] <joejaxx> Good Evening All
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[01:56:30] <jafari> have anhone configured solaris 10 Nat & Ipflter to allow IPsec
[01:56:42] <jafari> anyone feel like help me out
[01:58:41] <Auralis> i would start out with the ipfilter howto, it is very good
[01:59:47] <jamesd__> any recomendations for free gui based tape backup software for solaris?
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[02:01:59] <Auralis> has amanda a gui these days?
[02:02:45] <jamesd__> i don't know let me take a look
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[09:13:58] <lloy0076> eep
[09:14:20] <lloy0076> For some unknown reason, my Solaris zone now lets me login "really fast"...
[09:14:26] <lloy0076> ...and the only thing I did was a BFU upgrade.
[09:14:41] <lloy0076> <-- hates it when things fix themselves without an apparent reason
[09:17:56] <dlg> i love source-changes mailing lists
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[09:19:08] <lloy0076> dlg: Was that an affirmative or a sarcastic "I Love"?
[09:19:25] <dlg> no, i was being serious
[09:19:49] <richlowe> heh, my first thought was "What broke?"
[09:19:54] <richlowe> (other than the SCM bridge)
[09:20:28] <lloy0076> dlg: That is an ambiguous response. Most of the time when I'm being sarcastic, I'm also seriously being sarcastic.
[09:20:29] <lloy0076> :P
[09:21:06] <richlowe> lloy0076: I assume it was you that posted to -discuss about why you didn't get the Upgrade option?
[09:21:19] <lloy0076> I think so.
[09:21:29] <lloy0076> Yes, it was me.
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[09:21:52] <richlowe> sounds like a usability nightmare to me.
[09:21:55] <richlowe> ... except he quit
[09:22:03] <richlowe> I choose to believe that validates my point ;)
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[09:22:07] <lloy0076> Damn.
[09:22:24] <richlowe> lloy0076:  <richlowe> sounds like a usability nightmare to me.
[09:22:55] <lloy0076> Sorry, I though that gaim was in my app-bar thing but it's not there for some reason.
[09:23:12] <lloy0076> "usability" nightmare -- I'm lost.
[09:23:33] <richlowe> making the 'wrong' thing the default boot option, and then making it refuse upgrades.
[09:24:14] <richlowe> lloy0076: sorry, I read the mail to -discuss just now and was shocked that *that* was the reason you weren't getting an option to Upgrade :)
[09:24:21] <lloy0076> Ah.
[09:24:41] <lloy0076> richlowe: Trust me, I rebooted about 5 times to make sure I wasn't going cross eyed.
[09:26:20] <lloy0076> I think ON55 has "removed" the Notfiication Area for Gnome plugin...
[09:27:57] <lloy0076> I should restate that.
[09:28:14] <lloy0076> There's a plugin for GAIM which allows it to register itself with the Gnome Notification Area widget.
[09:28:17] <lloy0076> It's just "vanished".
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[09:32:40] <lloy0076> I guess I should check boo before I go asking the list.
[09:33:05] <richlowe> hah.
[09:33:08] <richlowe> I mean, uh, "yes"
[09:34:06] <lloy0076> Boo's not saying anything about it, although there's so many "blah will make gaim crash" reports that it makes gaim look like a P.O.S. :P
[09:34:53] <richlowe> sadly, not being able to find something that way, and it not actually being there are often rather different things.
[09:34:58] <richlowe> that's where the "hah" came from, in fact. :)
[09:35:43] <lloy0076> How am I meant to not bug developers for crappy already reported bugs if I can't find the crappy already reported bugs?
[09:35:54] * lloy0076 considers evilly raising a bug against boo :(
[09:35:55] <lloy0076> lol
[09:36:05] <jmcp> lloy0076: get to the back of the queu
[09:36:06] <jmcp> e
[09:36:11] <richlowe> I think half of all bugs I've reported have been against b.o.o
[09:36:32] <richlowe> there was a period where they alternated, and every 'real' bug found an extra one in b.o.o while attempting to report it.
[09:36:42] <lloy0076> ouch
[09:36:59] <lloy0076> This "not having a system tray plugin" is really going to annoy me.
[09:37:26] <lloy0076> It might seem piddly, but I use "gaim" for work purposes and disappearing randomly because closing the wrong gaim window can kill it will become a thorn.
[09:37:33] <richlowe> I think gaim's is still there, it may have managed to either be disabled within gaim, or had the gnome applet not run, or...
[09:37:58] <lloy0076> The notification area is running.
[09:38:09] <lloy0076> Gaim can't see a system tray plugin as per:  http://gaim.sourceforge.net/faq.php#q32
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[09:38:46] * lloy0076 sigh
[09:38:53] <richlowe> well, see.
[09:38:54] <lloy0076> When is Apple going to port Aqua to Solairs?
[09:38:57] <lloy0076> Solaris too
[09:38:58] <richlowe> I have gaim running, and it's right there.
[09:38:59] <lloy0076> :(
[09:39:02] <richlowe> the plugin, however, is not.
[09:39:09] <lloy0076> richlowe: Told ya so :P
[09:39:32] <lloy0076> WTF
[09:39:39] * lloy0076 kills STUPID gnome
[09:39:54] <lloy0076> I readded the notification area and it suddenly recognises GAIM.
[09:39:57] <lloy0076> That's just lame.
[09:40:41] <dlg> lloy0076: install ion3
[09:41:05] <lloy0076> What is ion3?
[09:41:36] <dlg> a minimalist window manager
[09:41:45] <dlg> if you like screen you'll probably like it
[09:41:58] <lloy0076> I hateses screen.
[09:42:21] <dlg> aww
[09:42:22] <lloy0076> I'm one of these evil people who has trillions of windows running all at once and can alt+tab between the right ones without having to look.
[09:43:12] <lloy0076> It might sound bizarre but my eyesight isn't that good and most of the time I can actually 'see' what's on the screen in my head and what's on the screen is really only for reference.
[09:43:15] <lloy0076> If that makes sense
[09:46:42] <dlg> yeah
[09:47:05] <dlg> i find ion is very predictable for that sort of interaction
[09:47:10] <dlg> its more structured
[09:50:31] <lloy0076> Fair enough.
[09:50:52] <lloy0076> I might try it out but I'm quite productive in Gnome when it doesn't do ubersilly things to me :(
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[09:57:49] <lloy0076> This is just funny.
[09:58:08] <lloy0076> I have a Solaris non-inherited zone installing pkg-get stuff via my squid proxy in my BrandZ linux zone.
[09:59:57] * lloy0076 hmmm
[10:00:00] <lloy0076> That's just too easy.
[10:01:26] <LeftWing> jmcp: I've finally been recognised for my ability to idle for a good cause! =)
[10:04:10] <jmcp> LeftWing: you're playing idlerpg?
[10:04:46] <LeftWing> jmcp: heh -- http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=21272  <--  grep -i SOSUG
[10:06:23] <jmcp> LeftWing: hehe ... "repeat presenter, SOSUG" .. you'd think I would have learnt by now :)
[10:06:28] <LeftWing> :D
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[10:11:42] * jmcp guffaws @ al hopper's response to the belenix livecd thread
[10:12:13] <PerterB> link? (yeah I know I'm lazy, but it's early on a sunday morning here ;)
[10:13:28] <richlowe> that's the as(1) branding bug.
[10:13:29] <lloy0076> It strikes me that I'm not on the -announce list
[10:13:30] <jmcp> PerterB: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=22249&tstart=0
[10:13:37] <jmcp> it's on the osol-bugs list
[10:13:52] <richlowe> Moinak built with a non CBE (too new) as, which incorrectly brands certain executables on x86 as needing SSE (and others)
[10:13:57] <richlowe> thus on startup, they don't actually run.
[10:14:06] <richlowe> surprisingly, libc (and thus init) tend to be the first victim though.
[10:14:16] <richlowe> (the surprise being that it got far enough for something else to fail)
[10:14:29] * PerterB laughs
[10:14:32] <richlowe> possibly they only mis-built libm.
[10:14:39] <lloy0076> PMSL
[10:14:42] <PerterB> good use of a flux capacitor reference always scores +1
[10:14:50] <lloy0076> I want one of those CARS god bless it!
[10:15:54] <PerterB> who needs hardware backward compatabilty anyway ;)
[10:16:09] <richlowe> the compatibility is there, if you build with the right (snv_14-era) as.
[10:19:02] <richlowe> the issue is that as brands based on the presence of instructions, if those are conditionally executed (so as to DTRT), it doesn't notice and brands them anyway.
[10:21:13] <PerterB> based on the presence of the instructions on the machine as is running on? Isn't there a way to override so that (say) you can build on a machine with SSE but produce binaries that will run on machines without SSE?
[10:22:18] <richlowe> in the binary.
[10:22:28] <PerterB> oh right
[10:22:30] <richlowe> if as sees an SSE instruction to be used, it flags the output as needing SSE
[10:22:43] <richlowe> that assumption isn't valid if the instruction is conditionally executed based on the presence of SSE on the target.
[10:23:18] <PerterB> got it
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[10:25:06] <richlowe> Hm, though current Nevada binaries are flagged, but more appropriately, so perhaps that's somewhat fixed.
[10:25:29] <richlowe> though as isn't doing the right thing, and neither is stock ON, so I don't see how.
[10:26:50] <lloy0076> It would be nice if there was a way to say: "I know you're doing things as ROOT so stop asking me" to pkgadd / pkg-get
[10:29:02] <PerterB> check out pkgadd -a ... I have no idea about pkg-get though.  But don't be surprised when it really does do what you tell it and you break something ;)
[10:29:13] <lloy0076> Fair enough.
[10:29:58] <lloy0076> I've just pkg-added eclipse from blastwave and eclipse works.
[10:30:20] <richlowe> SX:DE being successful already, I see ;)
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[10:32:05] * lloy0076 sigh
[10:32:53] <lloy0076> Ah, ok. The version of Eclipse in blastwave is 3.2.0. Maybe it's 3.2.1 which causes Eclipse to fall over.
[10:33:57] <Fish> hello
[10:34:29] <lloy0076> Howdy Fish
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[10:44:01] <lloy0076> *hmm* Well, the squid I got from blastwave core dumped
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[10:57:26] <Error_e^ipi> I bloody hate it when people part out machines on ebay
[10:57:38] <lloy0076> part out?
[10:57:41] <Error_e^ipi> i don't want a cpu module for an alphaserver, i want a bloody alphaserver
[10:57:48] <lloy0076> h
[10:57:53] <Error_e^ipi> yes, take a perfectly fine machine, tear it apart, and sell each part
[10:57:53] <lloy0076> Ah too
[10:58:15] <Error_e^ipi> making it relatively close to impossible to build a fully functioning machine
[10:58:17] <lloy0076> That's so you can buy it for an overrrated price AND get to put it back together again.
[11:00:55] <Error_e^ipi> oh well, i'm moving back to vancouver in a couple months
[11:01:01] <Error_e^ipi> real city = don't have to resort to ebay
[11:01:07] <lloy0076> heh
[11:01:11] <lloy0076> Where are you now?
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[11:03:52] <Error_e^ipi> about 1000km north of vancouver
[11:04:15] <lloy0076> The North Pole?
[11:04:47] <Error_e^ipi> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=prince+george,+bc,+canada&ie=UTF8&z=5&ll=53.922538,-122.77977&spn=12.804633,48.691406&om=1
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[11:05:57] <Error_e^ipi> pretty damned close
[11:06:12] <lloy0076> hmmm
[11:06:23] <lloy0076> Is that Washington, THE Washington?
[11:07:00] * lloy0076 didn't quite realise that Washington was so far north.
[11:07:07] <Error_e^ipi> yeah, it borders canada
[11:07:25] <Error_e^ipi> to confuse matters, the yanks also have Washington, DC
[11:07:26] <jmcp> lloy0076: do you mean, Washington District of Columbia ? or Washington State? or another Washington?
[11:07:37] <Error_e^ipi> which is not the same thing as washington state
[11:07:40] <lloy0076> I mean the USA's capital
[11:07:43] <richlowe> bloody new zealanders always miking their countries up ;)
[11:07:44] <lloy0076> capitol
[11:07:45] <lloy0076> thing
[11:07:46] <jmcp> lloy0076: that's Washingon DC
[11:07:47] <Error_e^ipi> oh.... no...
[11:07:49] <Error_e^ipi> that's DC
[11:07:50] <richlowe> 'mixing'
[11:07:55] <Error_e^ipi> washington the state is seattle
[11:07:58] <lloy0076> I'm not a damned NZ sheep bonker.
[11:08:06] * lloy0076 did I say that?
[11:08:11] <Error_e^ipi> and some suburbs of seattle
[11:08:18] <Error_e^ipi> and cows
[11:08:19] <Error_e^ipi> lots of cows
[11:08:29] <PerterB> no, he's an Austrian :)
[11:08:38] <lloy0076> Australian you fool
[11:08:48] * PerterB laughs
[11:08:49] <lloy0076> Austrians are part of the German Empire.
[11:08:52] <lloy0076> :P
[11:09:01] <PerterB> that one always gets a rise
[11:09:12] <PerterB> go back to your alps and cuckoo clocks
[11:09:27] <lloy0076> heh
[11:09:40] <lloy0076> What state then is Washington DC actually in?
[11:09:55] <jmcp> lloy0076: it's carved out of Maryland and Virginia
[11:09:57] <PerterB> none of them, it's a federal capital territory
[11:10:02] * lloy0076 sigh
[11:10:09] <Error_e^ipi> this one's the capitol: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=washington,+dc&ie=UTF8&z=4&ll=42.682435,-85.605469&spn=31.841101,97.382813&om=1&iwloc=addr
[11:10:10] <lloy0076> Ok, it's like Vatican City?
[11:10:17] <jmcp> kinda similar to the way that Canberra is located within the ACT which was carved out of NSW
[11:10:18] <PerterB> more like canberra, no?
[11:10:23] <lplatypus> it's like the ACT
[11:10:36] <lloy0076> The ACT is a place where politicians go to screw whores.
[11:10:43] <Error_e^ipi> just like DC
[11:10:47] <lloy0076> I meant make laws.
[11:10:54] <Error_e^ipi> except, s/whores/the world/g
[11:11:02] <richlowe> DC is 'not quite a state'
[11:11:11] <jmcp> lloy0076: it's a place where real people live+work, too .. .it's just that the major employer is the federal govt
[11:11:14] <richlowe> the idea was that the capital would not be in a place under the powers of a state, iirc.
[11:11:18] <richlowe> in practice, it's a hell hole.
[11:11:30] <Error_e^ipi> apparantly you can't vote in DC or some such?
[11:11:31] <lloy0076> Same here.
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[11:11:39] <jmcp> lloy0076: wtf are you smoking?
[11:11:47] <jmcp> lloy0076: the ACT has had its own government since 1990
[11:11:48] <lloy0076> Except the #@$#@$ federal govt. overrules STUPID things such as same sex marriages...
[11:11:49] <richlowe> Error_e^ipi: no state, no congressmen, etc.
[11:11:54] <lloy0076> Never mind they send people to die in Iraq.
[11:12:01] <lloy0076> la la la
[11:12:02] <jmcp> it sends 2 senators to parliament and 4 (iirc) MHRs
[11:12:09] <richlowe> ie, the same bloody thing they rebelled against us for doing to them ;)
[11:12:11] <richlowe> <- ex-pat brit
[11:12:42] <lloy0076> jmcp: It's a damned Territory under Territorial rule.
[11:12:45] <jmcp> lloy0076: please please PLEASE make sure you figure out that the ACT has its own (progressive) legislature. The federal govt is an entirely separate entity to the ACT and the city of Canberra
[11:12:55] <lloy0076> jmcp: I know it does.
[11:13:00] <jmcp> lloy0076: I used to live there, I am fairly well versed in the frikng differences
[11:13:00] <Error_e^ipi> curious fact , the boston tea party... which was reportedly "over taxes", was actually over the lowering of taxes undercutting the black market
[11:13:07] <richlowe> it's bloody commonwealth, and all ours in the long run anyway ;)
[11:13:14] <lloy0076> jmcp: It's kinda screwed as a territory though.,
[11:13:48] <Error_e^ipi> so the patriots rebelling over the abuse of the british empire were actually just pissed because the criminals got screwed by relaxing of laws
[11:13:49] <jmcp> yeah
[11:14:11] <lloy0076> Error_e^ipi: Yeah, so the yankees were crims in years ago...
[11:14:14] <lloy0076> Error_e^ipi: And they are now...
[11:14:19] <lloy0076> Error_e^ipi: I fail to see the diff.
[11:14:23] * lloy0076 ducks for cover
[11:16:21] <lloy0076> ,
[11:17:20] <lloy0076> Error_e^ipi: That seems quite urban to me now that I've changed the map to satellite.
[11:18:15] <Error_e^ipi> from what I hear of DC, it's like the ghetto all over
[11:19:01] <Error_e^ipi> and then a bunch of rich white men at the whitehouse
[11:19:12] <richlowe> You're forgetting the embassies, among other things.
[11:21:01] <lloy0076> DC should be the epitomy of American life....
[11:24:10] <Error_e^ipi> a trailer, a bucket of chicken & reality TV ?
[11:25:25] <lloy0076> Freedome, free speach and democracy.
[11:25:28] <lloy0076> bah
[11:25:39] <lloy0076> Freedom, free speach, lack of want for food and democracy.
[11:29:58] <Error_e^ipi> meh, that's just the same rhetoric as "god & country" that more traditional nationalist countries use to placate the population
[11:30:34] <Error_e^ipi> ultimately, just like any other country in the world, greedy people get power & use it to better themselves, and stupid/weak/lazy people let them
[11:31:01] <Error_e^ipi> it's like that in europe, asia, pacific, both americas... everywhere
[11:31:24] <Error_e^ipi> it's not limited to countries either... throw any number of people greater than a handful together, and you see the same trends
[11:33:53] <lloy0076> So, the US should force its version of anti-islamic freedom on the world?
[11:33:58] <Error_e^ipi> democracy is just a convinient way to solve the problem of succession... without a traditional regal linage, you've got to figure some way out to choose the next leader with as little violence as possible
[11:34:19] <Error_e^ipi> lloy0076: did I say they should? no. it's just not surprising that they do
[11:34:34] <Error_e^ipi> and if your country were in power, they'd find some way of screwing everyone else too
[11:34:39] <lloy0076> Or maybe the US should remember that there are those who recall that Saddam Hussein was put in power by the US.
[11:34:40] <Error_e^ipi> same with mine
[11:34:41] <lloy0076> And the US alone.
[11:34:59] <lloy0076> Error_e^ipi: My country's PM is a weak sycophant.
[11:35:22] <Error_e^ipi> i think that what the US does internationally is ridiculous, but i don't pretend that anyone else would be any better
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[11:35:49] <Error_e^ipi> blaming the USA for domestic problems is just like blaming welfare moms for your problems
[11:36:00] <Error_e^ipi> it prevents bettering yourself in favour of dumping the blame on someone else
[11:36:23] <lloy0076> Error_e^ipi: But John Howard tells me that loose vagina'ed women are the problem...
[11:36:28] * lloy0076 did I say that?
[11:36:59] <Error_e^ipi> I'm not familiar with .au politics
[11:37:09] <Error_e^ipi> tbh, your electoral system baffles me
[11:37:15] <lloy0076> John Howard is a social conservative.
[11:37:30] <lloy0076> He's the type of guy who'll tell you to not wear a condom even if that means everyone gets AIDS.
[11:37:34] <lloy0076> ...
[11:37:37] <lloy0076> To put it bluntly.
[11:37:38] <Error_e^ipi> vote -> [ black box ] - > [ complex mathematics ] -> MP's
[11:38:07] <lloy0076> It's much, much much better that everyone can conceive.
[11:38:16] <Error_e^ipi> i'm not saying it isn't
[11:38:28] <lloy0076> Who gives a fuck if the babies get AIDS, can't be supported or are born with addictions.
[11:38:40] <lloy0076> I hate the catholic church.
[11:38:44] <Error_e^ipi> just that i, despite a year or two of education in international politics, cannot understand it
[11:38:49] <lloy0076> And I don't like John Howard.
[11:39:13] <Error_e^ipi> I understand how Israel elects MP's, but not Aus.
[11:39:31] <lloy0076> Don't get me started on Israel.
[11:39:46] <Error_e^ipi> it was an example because they also have a strange voting system
[11:39:54] <lloy0076> It *is* a terrorist state that HAS weapons of mass destruction.
[11:40:40] <Error_e^ipi> i can't get worked up about politics anymore.... i got so burned out about it a while back i just don't care anymore
[11:40:51] <lloy0076> We don't make a difference.
[11:41:04] <lloy0076> Israel can do what if fucking likes.
[11:41:10] <Error_e^ipi> i vote left & then worry about my own life....
[11:41:11] <lloy0076> It can keep what weapons it wants.
[11:41:16] <lloy0076> And the US will not invade it.
[11:41:44] <lloy0076> In the middle east, which country HAS used chemical warfar? Israel
[11:41:53] <lloy0076> In the m.e. who has nuclear capability? Israel
[11:42:10] <lloy0076> In the m.e. who oppresses people evan against UN standards? Israel
[11:42:18] <lloy0076> In the m.e. who does the US pick on?
[11:42:20] <lloy0076> IRAQ
[11:42:27] <lloy0076> Who don't have weapons of mass destruction.
[11:42:29] <lloy0076> BAH
[11:42:42] <Error_e^ipi> yeah, like I said
[11:42:45] <Error_e^ipi> i don't care anymore
[11:43:11] <lloy0076> I don't care at the moment because I've projected that I'll be dead before the shit hits the fan.
[11:43:18] <lloy0076> I just hope reincarnation isn't true :P
[11:44:22] <Error_e^ipi> politics is a chaotic (in the mathematical sense) system
[11:44:40] <Error_e^ipi> power is just a strange attraction
[11:44:51] <Error_e^ipi> and it shifts location fairly frequently
[11:45:00] <lloy0076> Error_e^ipi: It's one of those things that might keep an organism alive.
[11:45:01] <Error_e^ipi> but politics never reaches  a state of equillibrium
[11:45:12] <lloy0076> Error_e^ipi: But as the US has found, it's not necessarily the ONLY thing.
[11:45:45] <Error_e^ipi> if you think of politics in that way, it's hard to get worked up about it
[11:46:00] <Error_e^ipi> economics to, for that matter
[11:53:17] * Gr|ffous checks what channel he's in
[11:53:28] <LeftWing> #OpenSlather
[11:53:38] <Error_e^ipi> ?
[11:54:09] <Gr|ffous> heh, close!
[11:54:18] <LeftWing> =)
[11:56:49] <lloy0076> heh
[11:59:45] <Gr|ffous> so, I need to test an X11 app on a remote build machine that I only have user access to.
[11:59:58] <Gr|ffous> can I still use X11 forwarding, through 2 hosts though?
[12:00:43] <jteo> yup
[12:00:44] <Gr|ffous> The first remote host is like a gateway, and I ssh from that to one of the non-internet accessable build servers
[12:01:03] <jteo> uh oh.
[12:01:20] <Gr|ffous> ah, jteo, I think I saw your username on the box in question
[12:01:54] <jteo> that depends whether the build server can connect back through the gateway on your box.
[12:02:01] <jteo> Gr|ffous: blastwave stack eh?
[12:02:01] <Gr|ffous> care to lend a hand, this is my first package :)
[12:02:08] * Gr|ffous nods
[12:02:31] <jteo> i never tried it, cos the lag makes it unusable for me.
[12:03:52] <Gr|ffous> I've not ever tried X11 forwarding over a WAN link... I can't imagine it's pleasant
[12:05:48] <LeftWing> It's not ideal.
[12:06:54] <LeftWing> Would be better to throw a copy of Xvnc in your home directory and just use SSH port tunneling.
[12:08:54] <Gr|ffous> I'm getting an out of disk space error at the moment, which is odd - there seems to be plenty of space. Have you hit that one on thor jteo?
[12:09:54] <jteo> Gr|ffous: user quota?
[12:10:08] <Gr|ffous> ah... that could be it.
[12:10:17] <Gr|ffous> how can I check for that?
[12:10:18] <jteo> my access to the stack got cut off for ...certain strange reasons.
[12:10:27] <Gr|ffous> oh...
[12:10:36] <Gr|ffous> uh, well I guess I better not be strange
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[12:12:55] <Gr|ffous> quota -v is blank. if the quote is on my nfs storage, would I need to be on that nfs server to see if I have one?
[12:13:44] <LeftWing> May depend on whether rquota is enabled on the server, though don't quote me on that.
[12:15:17] <Gr|ffous> seems I don't have access to that server anyway, so lets hope not
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[14:33:41] <ibb> i wonder; is there a way to simply move the hd data from ext3 to zfs?
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[14:41:18] <dlg> rsync
[14:44:35] <jteo> tar?
[14:44:40] <jamesd__> ibb, no there isn't a way to convert filesystems to zfs, best to backup and restore..
[14:45:10] <SunTzuTech> is it on the same disk?
[14:46:15] <myrkraverk> just a question, would ext3 (or whatever) ---> zfs tool be useful?
[14:46:18] <SunTzuTech> hmmm. that's a noise I've never heard my disk make before....
[14:47:45] <ibb> well, i figured that there might be a need for 2 systems to share with nfs the data, but i was wishing for ext3 or xfs tools that would allow me to just change it over
[14:48:07] * dlg blink
[14:56:21] <ibb> how about being able to mount ext3 filesystems to opensolaris, is that posible?
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[14:57:35] <quasi> no
[14:58:00] <ibb> so what can u mount in opensolaris?
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[14:59:51] <quasi> fat, ufs, zfs, nfs and smb
[14:59:54] <myrkraverk> ibb: ufs, zfs, cdfs and pcfs (the onces I know)
[15:00:08] <ibb> how about xfs?
[15:00:12] <myrkraverk> nope
[15:00:16] <myrkraverk> at least, not yet
[15:00:27] <jamesd__> there was an old ext2 driver somewhere on the net,  not sure it works in solaris 10 or its current status.
[15:00:36] <ibb> well, i guess i am out of luck
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[15:01:04] <quasi> doesn't linux have a driver to read/write ufs?
[15:01:18] <myrkraverk> I wouldn't know
[15:01:33] <dlg> quasi: would you trust it?
[15:01:49] <ibb> yes there is a ufs tool out there for linux
[15:02:00] <quasi> dlg: didn't you see the word linux in there? obviously not ;)
[15:02:06] <LeftWing> I would be more inclined to buy a USB HDD and put tarballs on a FAT fs.
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[15:03:15] <SunTzuTech> one way I got data off an ext2fs partition with Solaris was to run Knoppix or DSL under qemu and use that to read the file system and then push it to the solaris host.  A little hokey, but it work
[15:04:09] <ibb> that sounds like a solutions, as a run around but a solution
[15:04:57] <SunTzuTech> yep.  but in a pinch, i found it acceptable
[15:06:27] <ibb> since i am new to this way for calling a hard drive location eg.c0d0;mostly used to /dev/hda, where would i get the instructions on how the system identifies harddrives
[15:06:52] <quasi> man format
[15:07:05] <ibb> no, on the internet
[15:07:21] <quasi> docs.sun.com
[15:07:22] <ibb> before i get my feet wet
[15:07:50] <quasi> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/prod/solaris.10
[15:08:29] <ibb> swap can be formated with zfs?
[15:09:11] <jteo> you can't swap to a zvol. yet.
[15:09:25] <jteo> though it's debatable whether you would want to.
[15:09:38] <ibb> why? what is the drawback?
[15:11:59] <jteo> core dumps go to swap. some consider it best to not have too many layers between the core dumping and the actual physical device.
[15:13:44] <quasi> I still use svm to mirror swap
[15:15:04] <jteo> quasi: hence the term "some". :)
[15:15:47] <quasi> jteo: yep - but then I also hate to see what happens if swap gets corrupted
[15:15:51] <ibb> i got a long way to go then, but i do wonder about the rest of the opensolaris, can i install tar.gz that are made for linux?
[15:17:46] <ibb> i mean, i saw the pics of the screen and it looks so close to linux, its desktop that makes me think they are that similar
[15:24:09] <quasi> ibb: http://frsun.downloads.edgesuite.net/sun/07C00892/ might be worth a look for you
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[15:55:53] <Stric> ooh.. virus mails from  @chico.corp.sun.com  ;)
[15:56:37] <jamesd__> oh no its chico and the man...
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[16:19:37] <Fish-> ++
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[16:40:26] <Kmays> XFS is in the works..but ZFS is the end goal. Embeddable OpenSolaris distros with bootable ZFS will rock.
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[16:48:43] <Kmays> ZFS is becoming a dominant force in file system technology...
[16:49:39] <nbkk6fo_> so they say
[16:49:56] <nbkk6fo_> its still not being used in many places
[16:49:58] <myrkraverk> well, something has to be, dominant, that is
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[16:53:11] <Kmays> Well.. there are a few others... but few allow support up to the petabyte, journaling, and very extermely large file sizes (i.e. DVD/HD-DVD compressed image).
[16:53:59] <jteo> the best technical solution may not always win.
[16:55:04] <Kmays> True...point taken... i did say ' a dominant'..not 'THE dominant' ;)
[16:57:49] <Kmays> not yet anyway..
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[17:01:02] <Kmays> Not all data is the same. Not all workloads are the same.
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[17:12:37] <bbtm> How does ZFS handle defragmentation or is it not a problem with the file system?
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[17:13:33] <jamesd__> they say its not a problem.. and there is no way to deal with it currently...
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[17:37:01] <edwardocallaghan> Hi
[17:37:02] <PerterB> zfs supposedly doesn't overwrite old data, so you'd expect it to be sort of self-defragmenting
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[17:43:01] <jteo> PerterB: untrue. remember, everything is comitted every 5 seconds. so you could have mixed data scattered non-contiguously along a line of disk blocks.
[17:43:12] <PerterB> ah ok
[17:43:20] <jteo> unless you're always writing to one file only.
[17:43:45] <PerterB> so that probably works OK on desktops :)
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[17:47:53] <ibb> with zfs you don't have to worry about deframents though right?
[17:48:44] <tsoome> hm iscsitgtd will drop dead in b54:(
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[17:51:08] <ibb> nice encryption
[17:51:44] <edwardocallaghan> Edward wonders about fragmentation as well
[17:52:40] <edwardocallaghan> I know seek time is the big problem with hard disks
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[17:57:53] <ibb> i think seeks get better with a raid system
[17:58:44] <edwardocallaghan> no I don't think it does
[17:59:00] <edwardocallaghan> You still have to wait for the disks to find your data
[17:59:15] <ibb> not if they have a good index on the fs
[17:59:32] <twincest> edw: with raid the raw seek speed is the same, but you can seek on multiple disks at once
[17:59:37] <twincest> so parallel reads are faster
[18:00:03] <edwardocallaghan> true
[18:01:11] <edwardocallaghan> But the fact reminds that if you have a large data set that spans disks you have to wait for different disks in different places....
[18:01:20] <jbk> the answer i got when i asked about this was 1) the block picking algorithm is pluggable, so they can replace it easily if fragementation does become a problem, 2) if stuff is fragemented at all, the intelligent prefetching can help lessen the impact (if any)
[18:01:24] <twincest> well, i missed the start of the discussion
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[18:02:01] <twincest> but that will depend on the access pattern.  for something like a databsae you usually have a lot of random accesses, so it should be faster
[18:02:21] <jbk> of course it's more likely to be an issue as a pool gets near capacity, which analogous conditions with other filesystems, they don't always do that great either
[18:02:45] * jbk recalls some vxfs bugs where letting the filesystem get full would actually destroy the filesystem, forcing a restore :)
[18:03:39] <edwardocallaghan> Oh dear
[18:03:46] <edwardocallaghan> Big bug
[18:03:51] <edwardocallaghan> With legs...
[18:04:02] <jbk> slightly :)
[18:04:35] <jbk> which is also why i don't really buy one of the arguments against zfs -- 'it's too new to trust with my data'
[18:04:58] <jbk> given how 'old' vxfs is (and the fact you pay a lot of money for it) and it still has bugs like that..
[18:05:31] <myrkraverk> vxfs?
[18:05:46] <twincest> vxfs = veritas filesystem
[18:06:13] <bbtm> I'd trust ZFS more than vertias
[18:06:17] <jbk> but people still trust it to hold their most critical database files
[18:07:34] <myrkraverk> hmm, according to wikipedia, vxfs is also called jfs -- is that the same as the linux/aik/os/2 jfs?
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[18:07:42] <myrkraverk> *aix
[18:07:52] <jbk> well one of the things i point out is, as far as i know, there have been exactly 0 documented cases of zfs actually destroying data -- any instances of data loss appear to be due to hw issues or deliberate
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[18:08:04] <twincest> the only issues i've seen from zfs newness are performance issues
[18:08:28] <jbk> it might panic your system unnecessairly, but your data is still good
[18:08:30] <PerterB> vxfs is pretty much standard in banking and finance... and to be fair I haven't had it lose any of my data since the very early days (circa solaris 2.3)
[18:08:43] <PerterB> although I have had it panic production servers on me.....
[18:08:56] <twincest> one advantage vxfs (and qfs) have though, are wider OS support
[18:08:57] <jbk> myrkraverk: no, however on hp-ux, they relicensed vxfs as 'jfs'
[18:09:24] <myrkraverk> jbk: ok
[18:10:57] <jbk> myrkraverk: amusingly, hp would also nickle and dime you too -- if you wanted the ability to resize a filesystem while mounted (which vxfs can do), they charge extra
[18:11:00] <jbk> or did
[18:11:17] <myrkraverk> oh, that's ... stupid :P
[18:11:51] <myrkraverk> (but that's not the only thing ppl say is stupid about hp, these days)
[18:11:52] <jteo> welcome to the real world.
[18:12:05] <jbk> hehe
[18:12:15] <PerterB> really? that's always touted as one of the advantages of vxvm/vxfs... did hp actively disable it unless you paid?
[18:12:16] <myrkraverk> jteo: what's that? something in a cereal box?
[18:12:17] <jbk> *cough*itanic*cough*
[18:12:32] <jbk> PerterB: at least up to 11.0 (haven't messed with it since then)
[18:12:40] <PerterB> madness :)
[18:12:43] <jbk> as it was an add-on feature '_online_ jfs'
[18:13:10] <jbk> and at that time, they still charged a per-user license fee (but also had an unlimited license available)
[18:13:15] <myrkraverk> I've also heard ppl are not happy abou "upgrading" from tru64 to hpux
[18:13:16] <edwardocallaghan> Where does ext4 come into this ?
[18:13:24] <PerterB> ironcially one of our clients is about to embark on a solaris to hp migration, which makes absolutely no sense to me (I could understand if they had legacy hpux kit, but I don't think they do)
[18:13:55] <jbk> hp does have better sales people.. that's probably why they're doing it :)
[18:14:02] <jteo> PerterB: maybe they love surprises?
[18:14:06] <jbk> or pain
[18:14:08] <myrkraverk> PerterB: that is probably a result of "management gotten drunk by sales ppl"
[18:14:19] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[18:14:37] <edwardocallaghan> I thought HPUX is dead ?
[18:14:42] <edwardocallaghan> Or almost
[18:14:45] <jbk> well it's on life-support
[18:14:46] <PerterB> that's the only thing I can think of... some kind of golf course deal
[18:14:56] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[18:15:01] <twincest> hp-ux is dead by virtue of ony running ona dead platform and an irrelevant one :)
[18:15:43] <jbk> well i know they paid a _lot_ of money to an ISV to not drop HP-UX as their primary platform, so it'd force that ISV's customers to continue to use HP-UX (and to buy more superdomes)
[18:15:54] <myrkraverk> PerterB: yes, here in iceland, the boxes running the national lottery were bought that way (they run embedded windows, and tend to freeze, not to mention all the hw deficiencies)
[18:16:14] <PerterB> nice
[18:18:14] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[18:18:21] <jbk> well i've heard that people haven't been that impressed with the performance difference going from pa-risc to itanic
[18:18:24] <edwardocallaghan> maybe your win my mistake ;)
[18:19:11] <edwardocallaghan> Why has the itanic not sunk yet ?
[18:19:35] <ibb> lol
[18:19:50] <jbk> because intel is still pumping a lot of money to prop it up
[18:19:51] <ibb> its on 10billion dollars life support
[18:19:58] <edwardocallaghan> I don't get how it and PPC do there endianess ?
[18:20:22] <ibb> endianess??
[18:20:40] <PerterB> PPC swings both ways, doesn't it?
[18:20:45] <jteo> PerterB: yes.
[18:20:52] <jbk> i thought sparc did too
[18:20:53] <jteo> though it usually is run in big.
[18:20:56] <PerterB> jbk: no
[18:21:20] <ibb> what is the advantage of running a sparc system vs. x86 system
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[18:22:27] <edwardocallaghan> Well if you run a x86 shop you can open up a hot dog shop around back
[18:22:33] <jbk> scalability is a big one
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[18:23:36] <edwardocallaghan> Arr does Xeon make the joke more complete ? :p
[18:23:38] <ibb> ridles edward, ridles
[18:23:47] <jbk> their firmware isn't written like it's a 30-yr old chip with 1mb of ram
[18:24:04] <bougie> hello :p
[18:24:12] <edwardocallaghan> Hi
[18:24:51] <jbk> so you don't have some of the insane hoops and antiquated restrictions for booting that you do on x86
[18:25:16] <edwardocallaghan> The only main reason for x86 still being around is apps are complied on them
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[18:25:35] <jbk> they also often do better with I/O intensive workloads
[18:25:58] <ibb> i thought that sparc is basically missing a calc co processor
[18:26:01] <edwardocallaghan> Well ... uh hmm
[18:26:10] <jbk> umm.. most have built in fp units
[18:26:20] <jbk> though i don't think those are their strong suits
[18:27:01] <ibb> i was starting to think that sparc always did more that one thread at once, but i was wrong til the last processor
[18:27:19] <jbk> i don't think it does horrible, but not the best at fp (which honestly tends to be a niche market anyway)
[18:27:48] <jbk> well they've had dual-core cpus for a while
[18:27:59] <edwardocallaghan> AMD's x86 are just super scale RISCs with the right logic on die to take a CISC instruction and translate it into the needed RISC instructions
[18:28:18] <ibb> but i am saying per processor cycles, i thought i would handle more threads
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[18:28:57] <edwardocallaghan> I think that's right
[18:29:16] <edwardocallaghan> But most RISC's are underclocked
[18:29:19] <ibb> only niagra is able to handle 4 threads per core per cycle
[18:29:26] <jbk> well amd or intel are effectively risc + x86 translation layer
[18:29:37] <edwardocallaghan> I said that ^
[18:29:46] <jbk> you said just amd :)
[18:30:09] <edwardocallaghan> I did not want to said *****
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[18:30:55] <edwardocallaghan> Xeon cooked hot dog
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[18:31:11] <ibb> they still do
[18:31:31] <jbk> i am curious though how much of the performance of intel's chips is manf process over just design
[18:31:35] <edwardocallaghan> I know I am cooking on one now
[18:31:55] <edwardocallaghan> That's a good question
[18:32:47] <jbk> i mean, niagra is like 2-3 gens behind (90nm I believe), but is still managing (for certain workloads) to outperform intel chips
[18:32:52] <edwardocallaghan> I think it's the fact that there are so many ***** chips around that they can afford the manf loses and the R&D upkeep
[18:33:32] <edwardocallaghan> CMT is cool
[18:33:41] <edwardocallaghan> Well it's the old wintel thing
[18:33:44] <ibb> they make enough money to maintain the work they need to do (about $10bil a quater)
[18:34:12] <edwardocallaghan> Windows works on x86 so people buy x86
[18:34:17] <jbk> and even amd i think is/was a gen behind but managing to keep neck and neck (or better)
[18:34:56] <edwardocallaghan> Dell/Windows/Intel is the main reason I would say
[18:35:46] <ibb> or even simply windows/intel
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[18:36:02] <ibb> cause now hp is outselling dell
[18:36:03] <UnixTitan> amd is hardcore
[18:36:15] <ibb> and going quadcore
[18:36:28] <UnixTitan> :)
[18:36:37] <jbk> well kinda quadcore
[18:36:51] <UnixTitan> I have an AMD Turion Mobile 64 X2 (dual-core).
[18:36:55] <jbk> i think they're still just doing two dual core cpus in one cartridge
[18:36:56] <ibb> what? u dont believe?
[18:37:06] <jbk> and calling it quad-core
[18:37:21] <ibb> jbk: they will do quad core after mid year
[18:37:22] <UnixTitan> I would choose this laptop again and again over a core2 duo
[18:37:58] <edwardocallaghan> I like my Sun Blade 2000
[18:38:07] <edwardocallaghan> kicks all your asses ahahaha
[18:38:10] <edwardocallaghan> jokes...
[18:38:30] <ibb> how much did u pay ed?
[18:38:48] <ibb> i got amd x2 system that is awsome
[18:39:30] <estibi> hi, when i use SHAREMGR it works and stores settings into /etc/dfs/dfstab (when i use -p), but after reboot all setting disapears, why ?
[18:39:53] <estibi> snv54
[18:40:24] <ibb> good bye all, talk after getting back from indianapolis
[18:41:32] <estibi> it is strange
[18:42:42] <estibi> sharemgr share -F nfs -p -o root=myhost /pool1/tmp_dir
[18:43:04] 
[18:43:29] <estibi> after reboot doesn't work root=myhost
[18:43:33] <edwardocallaghan> 2x 1GHz UltraSPARC III+See you, 2GB RAM
[18:43:35] <estibi> :/
[18:43:36] <jbk> going to indy?
[18:43:39] <jbk> i'm sorry :)
[18:44:04] <edwardocallaghan> %s/See you/Cu/
[18:44:10] <edwardocallaghan> Stupid Gaim
[18:45:44] <ibb> yeah
[18:46:11] <ibb> edwardocallaghan: that is a cheap system
[18:46:23] <ibb> either way i must leave now
[18:47:55] <estibi> after reboot i can mount that resource but without root=myhost
[18:49:17] <twincest> can i use SVM+UFS on the X4500?
[18:49:20] <edwardocallaghan>  ibb:Thanks
[18:49:52] <lasseoe> twincest: don't see why not
[18:49:57] <edwardocallaghan> Do you have one ?
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[19:17:07] <PerterB> about how much space does a mercurial clone of onnv-gate take? (trying to guess how much progress the clone operation has made)
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[19:20:30] <edwardocallaghan> See you guys later
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[19:22:26] <estibi> ok, my sharemgr works fine, but after that ZFS (set sharenfs=on) overwrites setting
[19:22:48] <estibi> now it works well :)
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[20:41:38] <darkcmd> Are there any distributions of OpenSolaris that do not include proprietary software?
[20:42:10] <Error_e^ipi> nexenta?
[20:42:28] <darkcmd> are there any that include the standard solaris userland
[20:42:39] <Error_e^ipi> IIRC that was the point of schillix, but schillix is v. old
[20:43:00] <Error_e^ipi> you can also roll your own
[20:43:24] <darkcmd> create my own opensolaris distribution?
[20:43:33] <Error_e^ipi> yeah, why not
[20:43:52] <darkcmd> that would be kind of neat
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[20:44:13] <Error_e^ipi> yeah, pick up where schilly left off
[20:45:05] <darkcmd> it would be kind of hard to maintain myself though
[20:46:05] <myrkraverk> darkcmd: nonsense, it's just a matter of compiling stuff, and upload somewhere
[20:46:35] <darkcmd> I could do it, I'm thinking about it
[20:46:53] <Error_e^ipi> yeah, it wouldn't really be that hard
[20:47:14] <Error_e^ipi> you could probably write some perl to automate the whole thing too
[20:47:37] <darkcmd> I would like to write a new installer (no x)
[20:47:48] <darkcmd> at all
[20:47:53] <Error_e^ipi> and you would be loved by all if you did
[20:48:00] <Error_e^ipi> because the current one sucks
[20:49:58] <darkcmd> I've heard that Sun is planning on scrapping the proprietary portions of solaris and rewriting new alternatives for them
[20:50:24] <Error_e^ipi> *shrug*
[20:50:35] <Error_e^ipi> there's not a lot of closed bits left in opensol
[20:51:00] <darkcmd> what's left?
[20:51:12] <myrkraverk> e1000g?
[20:51:13] <Error_e^ipi> some SPARC graphics drivers
[20:51:18] <Error_e^ipi> sed
[20:51:22] <Error_e^ipi> which i still don't get
[20:51:40] <darkcmd> I wonder if they will replace it with GNU Sed
[20:52:03] <myrkraverk> probably not (though one never knows)
[20:52:05] <Error_e^ipi> no, because that would break POSIX
[20:52:15] <darkcmd> yeah
[20:52:21] <Error_e^ipi> and cause huge headaches for everyone involved
[20:52:43] <darkcmd> aren't they getting rid of CDE and such
[20:52:44] <myrkraverk> Error_e^ipi: yes, and solaris does not come with aspirin -- yet
[20:52:53] <myrkraverk> darkcmd: afaik, yes
[20:53:39] <darkcmd> then there's not much need in producing another distribution
[20:53:50] <Error_e^ipi> not a whole lot, no
[20:53:53] <darkcmd> since its heading towards complete openness
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[20:58:49] <mentzy> what are the requirements of opensolaris?
[20:59:15] <mentzy> (CPU..)
[20:59:30] <Error_e^ipi> runs on a 300mhz ultrasparc just fine
[20:59:41] <mentzy> ultrasparc?
[20:59:43] <Auralis> the more the better, but a P2 and 256mb ram is enough
[20:59:44] <Error_e^ipi> just make sure to give it more than 512M of ram
[20:59:45] <mentzy> :<
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[20:59:53] <Error_e^ipi> or it'll be painful
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[21:00:22] <mentzy> I have a P3-550MHZ 512M
[21:00:27] <Error_e^ipi> it'll work
[21:00:31] <mentzy> :>
[21:00:41] <mentzy> thanks
[21:01:24] <mentzy> should I install the express ver ?
[21:01:27] <mentzy> or the std ?
[21:01:50] <rodrick-brown> depends
[21:01:53] <Error_e^ipi> are you planning on using this machine in production
[21:01:54] <rodrick-brown> if this is for home use
[21:01:57] <rodrick-brown> I would go with express
[21:02:05] <Error_e^ipi> as in, if it goes down will you lose thousands of dollars an hour
[21:02:05] <darkcmd> Is the OpenSolaris installer written in Java?
[21:02:06] <rodrick-brown> for work I would go with OE
[21:02:18] <rodrick-brown> darkcmd, yes
[21:02:48] <darkcmd> why didn't they just use X and some tool kit or something? It lags my machine down, how can I boot to text install?
[21:03:30] <rodrick-brown> I Think it asks you what when you initial put the cD in
[21:03:33] <rodrick-brown> and booted up
[21:04:14] <Error_e^ipi> yeah, it's "interactive text console" or some such
[21:04:33] <Error_e^ipi> solaris doesn't like my video cards so i always have to choose that option
[21:05:48] <mentzy> is opensolaris similar to solaris10 ?
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[21:05:58] <lasseoe> no it's more like windows.
[21:06:31] <Error_e^ipi> ?
[21:06:44] <Error_e^ipi> yes, solaris express is somewhat like solaris10
[21:07:10] <Error_e^ipi> except SX is newer & has more features
[21:07:18] <Error_e^ipi> and more bugs too, probably
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[21:11:26] <mentzy> Error_e^ipi: thanks!
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[21:30:27] <hastur_the_great> slaris open, wow so what cool features does soalrisopen have that say linux doesnt?
[21:31:15] <Error_e^ipi> besides dtrace & zfs?
[21:31:26] <lasseoe> and zones, and ldoms
[21:31:32] <jbk> smf
[21:31:33] <Error_e^ipi> and predictive self-healing, services framework
[21:31:34] <jbk> fireenging
[21:31:40] <jbk> err engine
[21:32:03] <jmcp> and true 64bitness without having to install a completely different build of the OS
[21:32:07] <Error_e^ipi> a better threading framework
[21:32:14] <Error_e^ipi> bigger scalability
[21:32:15] <lasseoe> scalability :)
[21:32:58] <jmcp> and the respect of ISVs that interfaces won't just change "because it's cool"
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[21:33:25] <lasseoe> jmcp: found a way to find the WWNs of devices when using an lpfc driver, Explorer's diskinfo program outputs that for each and every device
[21:33:36] <lasseoe>    Location     Vendor          Product         Rev  Serial #   Dual Port         G-List
[21:33:37] <lasseoe>    c4t2d48      HITACHI    OPEN-V     --SUN     5007 500EAF7083F        primary                0
[21:33:43] <lasseoe> happy days!
[21:34:14] <jmcp> great!
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[21:34:21] <jmcp> glad you found a tool to help you with that
[21:34:28] <jmcp> btw, which rev of explorer is that?
[21:34:40] <lasseoe> let me check
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[21:35:52] <lasseoe> 4.3.1 :)
[21:35:56] <lasseoe> heh man that's old
[21:35:59] <jmcp> that's *very* old
[21:36:17] <lasseoe> yeah think I'll upgrade it tomorrow
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[21:36:41] <jmcp> if you go for v5.2 or later you'll get a copy of st_diag - which I wrote
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[21:36:51] <lasseoe> jmcp: what's that do?
[21:37:14] <jmcp> gets data from your tape drive
[21:37:39] <jmcp> basically it's the easiest way to look at the various log pages that each tape drive stores
[21:37:44] <lasseoe> hm, nice! Could do with that as well, have a bunch of SAN attached drives hanging off of the same server
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[21:37:57] <lasseoe> not that they are really my responsibility though
[21:38:20] <jmcp> you can't screw up tapealert with it, because st_diag refuses to query the tapealert page. you can't run it against a tape drive which is in use
[21:38:33] <lasseoe> Playing with an old L280 at home, st_diag will come in handy there
[21:38:41] <lasseoe> ok good.
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[21:41:20] <Theoden-Nexenta> Can someone tell me how the entry should look in/etc/vfstab for a cdrom - mine file has no entry for it.
[21:41:59] <lasseoe> it doesn't need one, unless you don't want to use volume management
[21:43:12] <twincest> hmm
[21:43:17] * twincest likes the X2200
[21:43:26] <Theoden-Nexenta> How do I mount it?
[21:43:27] <twincest> the lack of large amounts of memory per CPU always annoys me
[21:43:27] * lasseoe dislikes his X2100 M2
[21:43:44] <rodrick-brown> twincest, why does that annoy you?
[21:43:47] <rodrick-brown> more memory is always a good thing
[21:44:01] <twincest> rod: that's the thing.  i want more memory but i don't need CPUs
[21:44:10] <twincest> i have a V40z that i want to upgrade, but i can' tadd more dimms without more cpus
[21:44:20] <twincest> the x2200 has more slots/cpu than most opteron systems
[21:44:38] <Theoden-Nexenta> lasseoe: How do I mount it?
[21:44:51] <lasseoe> stick the cd in and it should automagically moun
[21:44:54] <lasseoe> t
[21:44:59] <Theoden-Nexenta> It doesn't
[21:45:16] <rodrick-brown> run volcheck
[21:45:26] <rodrick-brown> or mount it manually
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[21:46:40] <Theoden-Nexenta> no media was found.
[21:47:22] <Theoden-Nexenta> rodrick-brown: mount: /vol/dev/aliases/cdrom0 not a block device
[21:47:43] <Auralis> cd /cdrom
[21:47:57] <Theoden-Nexenta> nothing there.
[21:48:09] <Auralis> restart vold
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[21:49:50] <Theoden-Nexenta> nope -
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[21:50:09] <Theoden-Nexenta> Weird thing is - mplayer sees it and plays things just fine.
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[21:59:42] <Theoden-Nexenta> Ok - ls -l /vol/dev/aliases/cdrom reads:
[21:59:42] <Theoden-Nexenta> cdrom0 -> /vol/dev/rdsk/c1t0d0/elatte_installcd
[21:59:52] <Theoden-Nexenta> So apparently it sees the cd.
[22:00:29] <Theoden-Nexenta> If I eject the cd -   ls -l /vol/dev/aliases/cdrom reads:
[22:00:29] <Theoden-Nexenta> cdrom0 -> /vol/dev/rdsk/c1t0d0/nomedia
[22:00:53] <Theoden-Nexenta> So it knows it's there or not - but not m ounting it to a m ount point.
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[22:07:35] <Theoden-Nexenta> Google has been no help
[22:08:11] <jbk> what type of media is it?
[22:08:53] <Theoden-Nexenta> data - in this case - a nexenta install cd
[22:09:09] <Theoden-Nexenta> But I get the same result with a FreeBSD or OpenBSD cd.
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[22:15:56] <Theoden-Nexenta> Well - this has been very helpful.
[22:16:12] <salmandr> i have a Tyan Tomcat i7210 board with a silicon image 3114 chipset on the board
[22:16:41] <salmandr> it shows up in scanpci -v, but `format` doesn't list any drives attached to it
[22:17:07] <salmandr> afaict solaris supports the SI3114 (i'm running snv_54 btw)
[22:17:21] <salmandr> i'm a bit of a noob, any suggestions?
[22:17:34] <Error_e^ipi> touch /reconfigure && init 6
[22:17:55] <jmcp> salmandr: in the bios, change the sata controller to operate in legacy mode
[22:18:06] <Error_e^ipi> yeah, that too
[22:18:39] <salmandr> unfortunately there isn't an option for that, i looked
[22:18:49] <salmandr> the only option is for the built in sata (2 ports)
[22:19:04] <salmandr> the other 4, controlled by the 3114, has it's own crappy bios
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[22:21:43] <Tpenta> the b56 source drop should not be far away. (I would hope sub 24 hours)
[22:22:52] <salmandr> i can press a key entry during boot to get into the SI bios, but there aren't any options for legacy mode
[22:23:14] <salmandr> i'll try touching /reconfigure, does that just tell solaris to rescan connected devices?
[22:23:21] <Error_e^ipi> yeah
[22:23:30] <salmandr> would upgrading to snv_55 help? i didn't see anything related to sata in the changelog really
[22:24:20] <lasseoe> jmcp ?
[22:24:45] <Tpenta> it's not yet 8am in brisbane where I think he is at the moment
[22:25:05] <lasseoe> ok I guess he was up late then, he was here  like an hour ago :)
[22:25:10] <Tpenta> ahh
[22:25:14] <Tpenta> or early
[22:25:17] <lasseoe> yes or that
[22:25:21] <lasseoe> (god forbid)
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[22:29:24] <jmcp> lasseoe: hi
[22:29:28] <lasseoe> hiya :)
[22:29:30] <Tpenta> good morning james
[22:29:31] <jmcp> back in sydney now
[22:29:34] <jmcp> hi Tpenta
[22:29:39] <lasseoe> uhm, if you have a second then I have a question :)
[22:29:50] <jmcp> gimme a moment .. refilling the coffee plunger
[22:29:54] <lasseoe> sure thing
[22:29:57] <Viking667> tick. Gone.
[22:30:36] <jmcp> bacdabing here I am
[22:31:04] <Tpenta> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37089
[22:31:07] <jmcp> lasseoe: wassup?
[22:31:12] <jmcp> Tpenta: interesting, innit?
[22:31:21] <Tpenta> hmmmm
[22:32:09] <lasseoe> jmcp: all my storage is HDS, now when I go through the output of diskinfo, it most of my devices serial is only 11 chars long, when it should be 12
[22:32:26] <jmcp> there'll be a trailing space character in the inquiry serial number field
[22:32:39] <lasseoe> Device       Rev : Serial
[22:32:40] <lasseoe> c4t5d255    (5007:500EAF708F9)
[22:32:40] <lasseoe> c4t7d0      (2114:0450F86C08FB)
[22:34:06] <lasseoe> hm that messes up decoding though, at least according to infodoc 87799
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[22:34:55] <jmcp> if you look at each of those devices in "format -Mme" then you should see the per-byte dump of the inquiry info when you select the device, and look for a byte with value "20" - that's ascii space
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[22:36:44] <lasseoe> ok, I get that part, and I'll have to look at it tomorrow, just logged off the VPN and close the laptop, doh
[22:38:20] <lasseoe> I guess that infodoc leaves out the fact that you can have 11 char serials
[22:39:16] <lasseoe> It looks sane if I prepend a 0 to the serial, but .. *shrug*
[22:40:27] <jmcp> well, you have 12 chars allocated in the spec for it, but a vendor doesn't have to fill all chars with anything except space characters, technically
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[22:41:15] <lasseoe> ok well, seeing as the last 3 digits do match my CU:LDEVs then I assume something is missing at the front :)
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[22:42:42] <lasseoe> thanks :-)
[22:43:07] <rodrick-brown> I met Kraus over coffee a couple weeks ago, 10 days into his new job as director of product management (Google acquired his latest wiki startup, Jotspot). When I asked him about his first impressions, he said his colleagues were smarter than he could have imagined.
[22:43:07] <rodrick-brown> Seeing that I was unimpressed by the observation, Kraus grew more insistent. "Ten days in a new job and you don't meet anyone who's dumb? That's weird," he said.
[22:43:10] <rodrick-brown> hah that's pretty funny
[22:43:39] <lasseoe> hehe
[22:44:57] <rodrick-brown> http://money.cnn.com/2006/12/05/commentary/pluggedin.obrien.google.fortune/index.htm
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[23:10:39] <twincest> how well does solaris run on 64-bit xeon?
[23:11:21] <hastur_the_great> is opensolaris worth learning over say freebsd or just sticking with linux?
[23:11:28] <hastur_the_great> will it remain free for corporate use?
[23:11:37] <Auralis> twincest: runs fine
[23:11:42] <Auralis> hastur_the_great: yes, very worth it
[23:12:03] <hastur_the_great> adn its not choppy in i686, and better for sparc or anything
[23:12:25] <Auralis> x86 has feature and support parity with the sparc version
[23:12:26] <jmcp> twincest: yeah, runs fine
[23:12:35] <jmcp> hastur_the_great: yes, it will
[23:12:42] <hastur_the_great> its strong on i686 as it is on sparc, i686 isnt kinda a stepchild?
[23:13:19] <jmcp> uh ... what?
[23:13:24] <Auralis> x86 has feature and support parity with the sparc version
[23:13:27] <Error_e^ipi> it's fine on x86
[23:13:30] <jmcp> hastur_the_great: what are you really asking?
[23:18:12] <jmcp> hastur_the_great: I've been running Solaris on x86 and now x64 hardware since 1998.
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[23:19:43] <tsoome> I'm since solaris 2.6 I think
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[23:38:44] <galt> how's a leap from NV16 to NV55 sound? ;)
[23:39:44] <Error_e^ipi> dangerous
[23:39:58] <jmcp> galt: walk carefully, and read all the flag day messages first
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[23:42:42] <galt> it's kinda forced, fsck blew up and boned everything up.  speaking of which is there a UFS->ZFS converter about?  I'm gonna let the installer loose on all but /export/home, so zfs /opt and /usr won't be too bad, but I really don't want to blow /export/home if I don't have to
[23:43:17] <jmcp> galt: no there isn't
[23:43:41] <galt> okay, so /export/home stays UFS :(
[23:44:33] <Viking667> actually, how the hell would the installer have installed / as zfs?
[23:44:39] <galt> the installer can go to town on the rest of the disk though.  speaking of which, I really ought to get a c0t1d0
[23:45:19] <twincest> hmm, looks like installing solaris on the dell 1950 is a pain.. needs a patch for the cpu and for the sas controller
[23:45:24] <galt> Viking667, it won't.  I'm not playing with the slices I have, just letting the installer turn the nonvital ones to zfs
[23:45:25] <jmcp> Viking667: it can't right now
[23:45:47] <Viking667> m.
[23:46:01] <Viking667> so I guess this drive's gonna be UFS for a while then.
[23:46:21] <galt> in fact, until the installer gets off the crack, it's best to manually edit the slices as a rule anyways
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[23:49:47] <jmcp> galt: s/edit/assign/
[23:50:08] * Viking667 doesn't like one or two things the installer does anyhow.
[23:51:26] <Viking667> i.e. choose "Everything", then choose <F2_Continue> it then says I need several packages that should have already BEEN selected. I go reselect them, continue, and it comes back to that same screen, saying the packages aren't selected. Bah.
[23:52:04] <Viking667> But this is the 6/06 installer I'm talking about anyhow.
[23:53:12] * Viking667 gave up in the end and just proceeded with the install.
[23:53:52] <galt> jmcp, semantics ;P
[23:54:09] <jmcp> galt: no, it's quite different
[23:54:43] <jmcp> if i'm editing slices that means I'm using "format" to do so. Assigning slices in the installer is a matter of indicating size + mountpoint. quite different
[23:55:39] <galt> hmm, I always just assumed that the assigner was a frontend to format
[23:56:03] * tsoome is away - bbl - [AcidJazz - Log ON]
[23:56:20] <jmcp> galt: not precisely, no
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[23:56:59] <galt> shows how little I pay attention to the install process :)
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[23:57:13] <Viking667> meanwhile, I need to leave.
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