[00:01:47] <jamesd> why exactly are they creating a  kde project on opensolaris.org?   is there a point to having a group repeat the work of the other 2?   kde.solaris.org, blastwave.org, community software disk, and  kde.opensolairs.org?
[00:02:26] * Gman shrugs
[00:02:33] <Gman> doesn't seem like an inheritantly bad idea
[00:02:42] *** slowhog has quit IRC
[00:03:13] <jamesd> but it seems like creating yet another mailing list that people that are interested in kde has to follow.
[00:03:20] <alanc> isn't the point to centralize the work so they can all share, not add another duplicate?
[00:03:23] <Gman> they could migrate stuff away from the others
[00:03:44] <quants> some devs are bone heads
[00:03:50] <jamesd> cant they centralize the work on one of the existing projects?
[00:03:55] <kAv_> has anyone used sucesfuly used wget to grab files from sun downloads
[00:04:22] <Gman> jamesd, i would imagine the people are the same
[00:04:25] <jamesd> kAv_, yes, but you have use some special arguments and copy the exact urls...
[00:04:29] <richlowe> kAv_: wget $URL -O $(basename $URL)
[00:04:30] <Auralis> kAv_: yes
[00:04:37] <Gman> i'd personally move away from solaris.kde.org, and host stuff over at opensolaris
[00:04:48] <Auralis> wget -c "pasted url" works fine for me
[00:04:49] <Gman> that's the approach we've taken with gnome
[00:05:00] <Gman> use opensolaris as a launch pad for getting patches upstream in gnome
[00:05:10] <kAv_> ok it gives me a filename too long
[00:05:10] <quants> lets see: JDS uses rpm, but some folks are trying to use deb?
[00:05:30] <Gman> jds is just community tarballs and patches
[00:05:41] <Gman> we don't duplicate source on opensolaris.org
[00:05:50] <jamesd> Gman, they are to an extent, but they do have slightly different methods,  blastwave.org uses  gcc for its kde port,  kde.solaris.org uses sun studio, and i don't know what the community disk uses... so in the end it just another thing that opensolaris kde project will argue over.
[00:05:55] <alanc> JDS uses Solaris/SVR4 packages, it just has rpm-like spec files to build them
[00:06:20] <quants> alanc: right
[00:06:38] <Gman> jamesd, yeah
[00:06:51] <quants> alanc: just a step away to packaging using rpm
[00:07:06] * Gman thinks there's a lot of benefit to kde in using sun studio
[00:07:11] *** b3stbuddy has left #opensolaris
[00:07:16] <quants> I tend to like SUN's work
[00:07:24] <jamesd> well i do see one group that wins.. it will be yet another project mailing list the spammers can attack to distribute there mail.
[00:07:31] <Gman> :)
[00:07:34] <alanc> just that step to RPM is rather huge - the part where you'ld make the Solaris installer recognize it
[00:07:41] <Gman> needs some careful planning, yes
[00:07:46] <Gman> and some responsibility
[00:08:21] <quants> alanc: making .debs is more
[00:08:33] <quants> imo a waste of effort
[00:08:35] <alanc> neither one will be easy
[00:10:46] <sahafeez> pkg'd source like bsd would be nice.
[00:15:29] <kAv_> richlowe i must be missing something or not reading the example right .. i got http:\\ip_bla\foopath the command would look like wget http:\\ip_bla\foopath -O ip_bla http:\\ip_bla\foopath
[00:17:26] <delewis> sahafeez, but it shouldn't be essential to functionality.
[00:17:30] <Auralis> you are missinf the "" around the url
[00:17:37] <delewis> s/to/for/
[00:17:58] <kAv_> after the -O yes?
[00:18:18] <sahafeez> no, but i really like the gentoo model, or the openbsd model of intalling packages. there is no clear way to do it in solairs when talking non-sun stuff.
[00:18:46] <delewis> sahafeez, I think someone is currently working on that.
[00:18:51] <delewis> though, it'll be more Fink-like.
[00:19:03] <sahafeez> fink would be fine.
[00:19:06] * delewis has built up quite a package repository
[00:19:07] <Auralis> wget -c "pasted url" -O part1.zip
[00:19:15] <delewis> I've got about ~ 70 packages now that I've built.
[00:20:34] <kAv_> auralis you are a life saver
[00:20:47] <kAv_> i have to get them remotely
[00:20:56] <Stric> um.. \ in urls? shouldn't they be /  ?
[00:21:07] <quants> guys I have a problem with pine
[00:21:18] <delewis> quants, ?
[00:21:22] <Auralis> easily solved, use mutt
[00:21:27] <quants> my boss sent me a 3.5MB file in email
[00:21:28] <Auralis> :)
[00:21:31] * delewis throws stones at Auralis
[00:21:39] <delewis> I still use Pine :-P
[00:21:50] <quants> now the program cores when I try to read my mail?
[00:22:04] <sahafeez> it is most likely spam. just delete it and blame it on any exchagne server it passed thru
[00:22:13] <delewis> quants, do a pstack on the core file
[00:22:16] <tomww> Auralis: mutt is nice :-)
[00:22:21] <delewis> well, first do file `which pine`
[00:22:24] <kAv_> delewis as one of my collegues recently said, pine does not like having 13k mails on inbox when it opens
[00:22:27] <delewis> and see if its been stripped or not
[00:22:35] <delewis> kAv_, I've had about 30k before.
[00:22:42] <delewis> and no, its not particularly pretty.
[00:22:51] <delewis> takes about 10-20 seconds to open an mbox.
[00:23:01] <quants> 23msg in my inbox
[00:23:20] <tomww> enough space for the mail-swap file?
[00:23:26] <delewis> Pine does all I expect of an MUA, though.
[00:23:36] <delewis> with minimum configuration.
[00:23:39] <tomww> old mbox needs double space when modifying
[00:23:40] <quants> /usr/local/bin/pine on OpenBSD
[00:24:08] <quants> I'm not admin on this box
[00:24:29] <delewis> quants, have you ignored my instructions?
[00:24:47] <Stric> delewis: only ignored parts of it ;)
[00:24:48] <quants> I did which
[00:24:53] <Stric> file `which pine`
[00:24:54] * delewis sighs
[00:25:04] * delewis beats his head against the wall
[00:25:21] <tomww> or against a pine
[00:25:22] <quants> delewis: look you'll talk fast
[00:25:22] * Stric replaces the wall with a cushion
[00:25:39] <delewis> I talk fast?
[00:25:48] <delewis> you don't have a buffer with your IRC client?
[00:26:16] <tomww> buffers tend to overflow
[00:26:47] <quants> yeahpstack pine.core
[00:26:48] <quants> pstack: Command not found.
[00:26:57] <delewis> quants, file `which pine`
[00:27:02] <delewis> how difficult is that?
[00:27:26] <quants> file `which pine`
[00:27:27] <quants> /usr/local/bin/pine: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1, for OpenBSD, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
[00:27:32] <delewis> yay
[00:27:42] <delewis> alright use gdb and get a stack trace
[00:28:08] * quants listening
[00:28:20] * delewis forsees the next question being "How did I get a stack trace?"
[00:28:31] <delewis> and for that, I have no clue, given I don't really use gdb.
[00:29:01] <quants> well it has gdb
[00:29:04] <delewis> you can do 'help stack' or something
[00:29:21] <Stric> bt
[00:29:29] <Stric> or backtrace if you want to spell it out
[00:29:30] <quants> help stack
[00:29:32] <quants> help: no entry for stack in the manual.
[00:29:44] * delewis sighs
[00:29:45] *** Gman has quit IRC
[00:29:46] <quants> k
[00:30:50] <quants> this is way to low level on a sys I'm not admin on
[00:30:58] <delewis> huh?
[00:31:07] <delewis> you don't need root to debug an application
[00:31:10] <quants> I just need to kill msg 22
[00:31:15] <Stric> go to pastebin.ca or something, put in the output and give url
[00:31:15] <delewis> where'd you get that thinking from?
[00:31:44] <quants> I can lose my acount if the admins get confused
[00:31:58] <Stric> not for this
[00:32:07] <delewis> and you actually want an account on a system run by admins who are easily confused when they see a user running gdb?
[00:32:16] * delewis wonders what the world is coming to
[00:32:19] *** sahafeez has quit IRC
[00:32:28] <tomww> if he only likes to kill the message, why not using old-style "mail"
[00:32:34] <Stric> delewis: I've been in the norwegian town 'Hell'. There was snow there.
[00:32:46] <quants> it's the only public OpenBSD shell I know of
[00:32:52] <nrubsig> Stric: frozen snow ?
[00:32:53] <tomww> or even telnet to localhost 110 user/pass/dele 22 /quit ?
[00:32:54] <delewis> Stric, :-)
[00:33:02] <delewis> do they have postcards?
[00:33:03] <Stric> nrubsig: yeah. it's the only kind of snow I know..
[00:33:06] <quants> ah
[00:33:19] <quants> mail doesn't see any msgs
[00:33:41] <tomww> ok, maybe pine has moved all mails into you $HOME....
[00:33:46] <Stric> delewis: virtual ones available on hell.no
[00:34:05] <Stric> delewis: but they suck
[00:34:14] <nrubsig> erm
[00:34:19] <nrubsig> AGGRRGLLLLLLLLLLLL
[00:34:52] <nrubsig> Ok, question: Why do some people think the ksh93 thing was an "impossible" task ?
[00:35:03] <tomww> tell us?
[00:35:09] <Stric> Because shell scripting sucks anyway? :)
[00:35:16] *** Hobz has quit IRC
[00:35:21] * nrubsig rolles with his eyes
[00:36:16] <Stric> delewis: http://www.acc.umu.se/images/archive/2004032x-TrondheimNUCCC/IMG_8636.JPG  ..  a bit snow in the background.. it was spring..
[00:36:27] <quants> Connected to localhost.
[00:36:28] <quants> Escape character is '^]'.
[00:36:28] <quants> +OK Hello there.
[00:36:50] <tomww> quants type "stats"
[00:36:53] <quants> tomww: help?
[00:36:56] * Stric waits for quants to paste the password ;)
[00:37:04] <delewis> you really don't want to do that use telnet if you have a large attachment.
[00:37:17] <delewis> s/use/with/
[00:37:20] <tomww> stats only give numer of msgs
[00:37:28] <quants> stats
[00:38:31] <tomww> sorry, i was wrong. tye in:  user yourusername <enter>
[00:38:50] <tomww> then:  pass <yourpasswordincleartext>
[00:39:04] <tomww> (without the "<"">")
[00:39:45] <tomww> after <enter> this should give you something like "+OK authentication successful"
[00:40:31] <quants> tomww: k
[00:40:44] <nrubsig> password: hello##world1
[00:40:52] <tomww> +OK :_)
[00:41:19] <tomww> quants: now you can ask the popdaemon how many mails in the box are:  "stat"
[00:41:30] <nrubsig> tomww: I didn't say _which_ account uses this password.... :-)
[00:42:33] <tomww> nrubsig: it wasn't a pop3 daemon....the only know +OK or +ERR ans so on
[00:45:08] <tomww> quants: did you get an answer (only numbers) after "stat <enter>" ?
[00:47:26] <stevel> nrubsig: because we (Sun) were out to get you and sabotage your project from the very beginning?
[00:47:27] <stevel> ;-)
[00:47:31] <quants> stats
[00:47:32] <tomww> if there are more than zero mesgs in the box, we can delete single messages
[00:47:47] <tomww> try "stat"
[00:48:01] <Stric> I think all commands are 4 chars
[00:48:06] <quants> stat
[00:48:07] <quants> +OK 23 7454765
[00:48:14] <tomww> ahhh cool.
[00:48:30] <quants> del 22?
[00:48:37] <tomww> you know the message before the one, making you pine faile?
[00:48:48] <quants> yes
[00:49:21] <tomww> ok, if you know exaclty the order of your msgs, you can go on with dele numer
[00:49:30] <quants> tomww: how to del it?
[00:49:44] <tomww> but if not, you cann read them in plain with "retr 1"  (for the first mail )
[00:50:01] <nrubsig> stevel: I can't hear that comment anymore... usually its followed by a 120kb flamewar+bloodbath+beheading+shooting+execution allInOne mayhem.
[00:50:15] <quants> found it retr 22
[00:50:26] <tomww> if you are shure, number 22 is the one, type "dele 22" and the msg will be markes for deletion if you close the box with "quit"
[00:51:07] <quants> +OK Deleted.
[00:51:08] <quants> quit
[00:51:08] <quants> +OK Bye-bye.
[00:51:17] *** uebayasi has joined #opensolaris
[00:51:40] <tomww> your done. now, your a certified pop3-retriever. :-)
[00:51:42] <silk> if they are long messages, many pop servers also support top, which will retrieve the headers plus n lines
[00:51:51] <silk> top 22 5 for example
[00:52:30] <tomww> silk: this one was new to me :-) (top has only 3 letters... hmm)
[00:52:44] <quants> tomww: you roxrs
[00:52:50] <nrubsig> Once I had a peacefull live and a job at the university. Then ksh93 came and my life turned into a hell and now I have fame&&glory, no job and a KDE project.
[00:52:56] <quants> you guys are all the best
[00:53:12] *** peteh has quit IRC
[00:53:21] <nrubsig> s/live/life/
[00:53:59] *** arnabold has joined #opensolaris
[00:54:07] <tomww> quants: it was a pleasure
[00:54:20] *** peteh has joined #opensolaris
[00:54:55] *** arnabold has quit IRC
[00:55:41] *** jmc1 has joined #opensolaris
[00:55:45] *** ShadowHntr has quit IRC
[00:55:50] <nrubsig> Can anyone spot what I did wrong in my life ?
[00:56:46] * nrubsig sulks and goes to accept the challange.
[00:57:58] <alanc> you do love fighting against all odds, don't you?
[00:58:13] <alanc> Xprint, ksh93, kde-in-solaris...
[00:58:14] <richlowe> there's really no challenge there.
[00:58:27] <richlowe> since whether or not it ends up in Solaris is *entirely* out of your control.
[00:59:32] <nrubsig> richlowe: right
[00:59:36] <alanc> at some point I may just break down and point out there is exactly one person on opensolaris-discuss who gets a vote on whether or not KDE goes into Solaris, and he's not been participating in that thread (probably in large part because he's at the AtlantaTech Days)
[00:59:52] <richlowe> nrubsig: so if everyone actually notices that that's true, you're free of pressure.
[00:59:54] *** Gman has joined #opensolaris
[00:59:59] <richlowe> nrubsig: you just get to work on making the two get along better.
[01:00:22] <alanc> time for PSARC fasttracks - back in a bit
[01:01:26] <richlowe> alanc: if I were you, I'd do that.
[01:01:36] *** Gman has quit IRC
[01:02:27] *** adlpaf has joined #opensolaris
[01:04:40] <quants> tomww: me thinks my boss sent it twice?
[01:04:57] <quants> both compressed, and non
[01:05:13] <quants> 2 3.6MB files
[01:05:20] <quants> killed pine
[01:06:29] <tomww> you want to kill em (not you boss, the message :-)
[01:07:55] <tomww> you could do the same procedure again if you want. (assitance needed?)
[01:08:08] <quants> no I got it
[01:08:36] <quants> when pine came up, the msg was there, but moved to 24
[01:08:38] <nprice> say i have a zpool and a raidz array, i'm trying to add another disk to the array, what should I do first?  i seem to have added it to the pool but not ot to the raidz array
[01:08:39] *** Mazon is now known as mazon
[01:08:56] <tomww> quants: i see, you are a certified pop3..... :)
[01:08:59] <quants> I know I dele'd it, and pine quit coreing
[01:09:22] <quants> lol
[01:09:27] *** merlin_ has quit IRC
[01:09:36] <Stric> nrubsig: you can't expand an actual raidz thingie (now)
[01:09:40] <quants> I was saying maybe it cored b/c he send both ways
[01:09:41] <Stric> err. nprice..
[01:09:57] <Stric> quants: no, it cored because pine apparently has a bug
[01:10:02] <nprice> hmm
[01:10:13] <quants> yeah big files
[01:10:23] <Stric> 3.6MB isn't big
[01:10:32] <nprice> will it be supported in the future?
[01:10:33] <quants> for mail?
[01:10:34] <Stric> pine can handle that without problems
[01:10:43] <quants> k
[01:10:56] <quants> big time bug then
[01:11:07] <Stric> but maybe the message has some weird mime structure that c-client (the mail parsing part of pine and uw-imap) fails to understand
[01:11:27] <quants> hmmm
[01:11:40] <quants> think he uses evolution?
[01:11:46] <Stric> nprice: maybe.. I've seen discussions about it at least..
[01:12:06] <Stric> quants: see if for instance 'mutt' is installed on that system and try using that if pine fails
[01:12:36] <nprice> any suggestions?  i have three drives, two 250gb in a raidz1 and i'd filled them pretty well, and now i'd like to add a thir d drive... is there anything i can do besides tearing down the entire array?  would another type of array work better for what I'm trying to do?
[01:13:06] <quants> Stric: I have telent now, I can fix the pop3 if pine fails ever again
[01:13:19] <Stric> quants: but you can't read the mails..
[01:13:33] *** xusheng has joined #opensolaris
[01:14:23] <Stric> nprice: well.. there's one migration way for you.. rip out of of the two disks in your raidz1 (only one needed).. create a sparse file that seem to be 250GB large. create a raidz of thatfile+thediskyouremoved+newdisk..
[01:14:28] <quants> retr #
[01:14:37] <Stric> then ditch thatfile so the raidz becomes degraded
[01:15:02] <Stric> copy over data with zfs send/recv and then dump the first pool and add that disk to the second, replacing thatfile
[01:15:21] <quants> Stric: I'll consider your advice once I get better time ;)
[01:15:40] * quants notes: mutt
[01:16:10] <steleman> HA! if KDE makes it into Solaris nrubsig gets to write 643 ARC Cases :-D
[01:16:13] <steleman> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[01:16:38] <Stric> mutt has a few files made 'rfcXXXX.c', denoting which rfc it implements.. in my world, that says something about clean code..
[01:16:46] <Stric> s/made/named/
[01:16:51] <Stric> (interesting typo)
[01:17:02] *** dlynes_laptop has quit IRC
[01:19:19] *** Fish- has quit IRC
[01:21:29] *** tsoome has quit IRC
[01:22:12] *** nprice has quit IRC
[01:24:07] *** pitty has joined #opensolaris
[01:26:35] <alanc> nrubsig: your ksh93 fasttrack was approved (pending April submitting the updated spec to match the e-mail discussion)
[01:28:59] *** estibi has quit IRC
[01:29:14] <alanc> as was the fasttrack I sponsored (KIOCMKTONE ioctl)
[01:29:23] <richlowe> beep beep.
[01:29:42] <alanc> and a whole pile of g11n fasttracks from ienup
[01:29:46] *** dunc has quit IRC
[01:30:00] <alanc> oh, and the one that's probably most interesting to end users - tcsh 6.14 8-)
[01:30:17] <richlowe> I don't see anything g11n-looking in the caselog on opensolaris.org
[01:30:24] <richlowe> I see a huge stack of Explorer stuff at lsarc, though.
[01:30:26] <steleman> alanc: tcsh with vfork(2) ?
[01:30:57] <nrubsig> steleman: don't even think about trying |posix_spawn()|
[01:31:00] <richlowe> and 2007/024 I guess, since I can't cause that synopsis to make sense.
[01:31:01] <alanc> richlowe: PSARC 2007/024  	FastTrack  	gimlet enhancement
[01:31:02] <nrubsig> alanc: Hurray! :-)
[01:31:05] <richlowe> alanc: hah.
[01:31:05] <Doc> LSARC?
[01:31:22] <richlowe> that's what the caselog says.
[01:31:26] <alanc> gimlet is gnome-input-method-applet if i remember correctly
[01:31:31] <alanc> LSARC!
[01:31:54] <nrubsig> steleman: for now we've downgraded ksh93 to avoid using |posix_spawn()| since we couldn't workaround the bugs Glenn found.
[01:32:17] <steleman> nrubsig: bummer
[01:32:30] <alanc> hmm, only see two of Ienup's on the current list, gimlet and the one that wasn't approved (2007/028  EMEA input methods with keyboard layout)
[01:33:05] <Doc> hmm.. looks like we do use lsarc.. there ya go!
[01:33:19] <richlowe> alanc: so, what's with the number of cases being nearly-open?
[01:33:20] <alanc> don't remember what the other ones were
[01:33:29] <Doc> i thought we were in SARC...
[01:33:34] <richlowe> in the "we can see all the stuff, but not at all take part" sense.
[01:33:37] <nrubsig> steleman: Otherwise $ ls -l | less # may fail with "cannot exec commad less: Not executable" thanks to a race conditon related to pipes and process groups.
[01:33:41] <richlowe> ie, the 3 ssh cases, etc.
[01:33:45] <alanc> Doc: Explorer used to go to SARC, but SARC & LSARC merged last summer
[01:34:03] <richlowe> (032-035)
[01:34:06] <nrubsig> steleman: and "race condition" means: You can't reproduce this xx@@@!!! easily.
[01:34:13] <richlowe> oops, 034, rather.
[01:34:24] <Doc> ahh.. shows what i know
[01:34:39] <alanc> richlowe: I don't know
[01:34:44] <nrubsig> steleman: on my Ultra5 1 of 7000 calls failed.
[01:35:04] <richlowe> alanc: bugger.
[01:35:06] <jmc1> Doc: you know nussing!
[01:35:11] <alanc> maybe plocher does
[01:35:19] <richlowe> alanc: yeah, hence the bugger ;)
[01:35:32] *** jmc1 is now known as jmcpBris
[01:35:32] *** brs has quit IRC
[01:35:43] <richlowe> I imagine it's waiting on 2005/569, which seems to not be going nowhere fast.
[01:35:51] <richlowe> but half-meassures like that seem utterly senseless.
[01:35:59] <richlowe> s/not//
[01:36:14] <richlowe> yeah, and 2006/569, I give up now ;)
[01:36:37] <alanc> and I don't know why mine show a case summary page but no materials (like 2007/019)
[01:37:34] <alanc> maybe I'll poke plocher about what I'm doing wrong before submitting the Xorg 7.2 case
[01:37:46] <pitty> is there a way of determining what kind of hardware i am using for solaris 10 x86 1/06?
[01:38:29] <pitty> i.e - hp, dell; i dont see prtdiag support for that release, i know its in 6/06 and later
[01:38:51] <Doc> jmcp: i have people to look after *ARC stuff for me.. :)
[01:38:52] <alanc> look at the case?
[01:41:44] <Stric> does something like 'dmidecode' work/exist on solaris x86? IE, read the DMI tables of the computer.. where for instance computer model etc is put in
[01:47:03] *** xusheng has quit IRC
[01:50:52] *** Gman has joined #opensolaris
[01:51:43] *** simford has joined #OpenSolaris
[01:53:34] *** salmandr has quit IRC
[01:55:58] *** trs81 has quit IRC
[01:59:43] <moazamraja> re
[01:59:45] <moazamraja> quick question
[02:00:00] <moazamraja> on a x2100/x2200, Solaris 10 runs default 64bit, right?
[02:00:02] *** peteh has quit IRC
[02:00:29] *** peteh has joined #opensolaris
[02:02:32] <stevel> moazamraja: yes
[02:03:14] <moazamraja> but..uname -a shows "i386"
[02:03:17] <moazamraja> and i86pc
[02:03:22] <moazamraja> psrinfo -v
[02:03:27] <moazamraja> he i386 processor operates at 2010 MHz,
[02:03:27] <moazamraja>         and has an i387 compatible floating point processor.
[02:03:29] <Stric> isainfo -kv
[02:03:30] <moazamraja> kinda...odd.
[02:03:43] <moazamraja> alrighty then
[02:04:05] <Stric> or just isainfo -v
[02:05:01] <Triskelios> Stric: prtconf does list part of the DMI info
[02:05:01] <moazamraja> awesome, that clarifies things
[02:05:08] <Triskelios> err
[02:05:11] <Triskelios> prtdiag, I mean
[02:10:05] *** sniffy has quit IRC
[02:14:51] *** sniffy has joined #opensolaris
[02:16:27] * nrubsig falls asleep
[02:16:28] <nrubsig> night
[02:16:31] <nrubsig> bye
[02:16:37] *** nrubsig has quit IRC
[02:21:40] *** alanc has quit IRC
[02:24:12] *** alfism_ has joined #opensolaris
[02:24:16] <quants> anyone have a copy of the JDS Linux iso for me to play with?
[02:24:47] <asyd> S/ 2
[02:24:48] <asyd> oups
[02:25:21] *** pitty has left #opensolaris
[02:27:34] *** alanc-away has joined #opensolaris
[02:27:51] *** alanc-away is now known as alanc
[02:28:45] <Triskelios> quants: JDS is dead, long live JDS...
[02:28:53] <asyd> :)
[02:28:58] *** Kmays has joined #opensolaris
[02:30:09] <quants> Triskelios: right I just wanted to play with a copy
[02:30:26] <quants> I have sysvr2 here
[02:30:50] <quants> aux on an old quadra
[02:31:29] <quants> two of my buddies have alphas, one has next cubes, my boss has z80s
[02:31:52] <alanc> JDS is not dead!
[02:32:00] <alanc> it's just pining for the fjords...
[02:32:32] <jbk> beautiful plumage
[02:32:47] <quants> isohunt is down or I'd go look there
[02:34:04] <quants> I'd love to see the mythical src for old pee cee sysvr4
[02:34:16] *** Gman has quit IRC
[02:36:58] <alanc> though I suppose KDE does have closer ties to the fjords, with trolltech hq in norway
[02:37:17] * steleman was enjoying alanc's witty play
[02:37:54] <quants> opera is a distant cousine
[02:41:17] <alanc> now I just need to remember what I was doing before I crashed my X server
[02:41:33] <richlowe> you were using the mouse.
[02:41:42] * richlowe hopes to hell you're seeing what I'm seeing.
[02:41:47] <richlowe> because I can't even come *close* to nailing it down.
[02:43:16] *** comay has quit IRC
[02:44:27] <alanc> well, just at the moment it crashed I was running the program one of the other X developers said "run this and see if it crashes"
[02:44:41] <richlowe> bugger.
[02:44:44] <alanc> I just assumed "it" was the program, not my X server going to crash
[02:45:11] * richlowe has a stack that goes Dispatch -> <very high address> -> SEGV
[02:45:17] <richlowe> that's pretty much all I know about it (which is why there's no CR)
[02:46:16] <alanc> well, in the X server, Dispatch pretty much just means you have a client running, not very useful for tracking down what went wrong
[02:46:52] <richlowe> Indeed.
[02:47:22] <richlowe> something is causing X to try and call fffff58 (seems fairly consistently that address), which also seems to be much much higher than is rational.
[02:50:19] *** lloy0076 has joined #opensolaris
[02:53:52] * stevel waits eagerly
[02:54:12] <stevel> PGs should be putting back any minute now
[02:54:37] * richlowe mutters
[02:54:52] * stevel hands richlowe a cookie
[02:54:53] <stevel> yes yes i know
[02:55:08] <richlowe> Oh, yeah, that too.
[02:55:36] *** Dar has joined #opensolaris
[03:00:10] *** nachox has joined #opensolaris
[03:02:28] *** yippi has joined #opensolaris
[03:02:43] *** rachel has joined #opensolaris
[03:03:29] * stevel cheers
[03:04:08] <onbot> commit by Eric Saxe:  6461311 multi-level CMT scheduling optimizations; 6509639 cpu0 is not in the right chip_t if its chipid is not zero
[03:04:38] <richlowe> nice.
[03:08:50] <Error_e^ipi> pg?
[03:09:52] <richlowe> Error_e^ipi: the putback you see above.
[03:10:21] <Error_e^ipi> ahh
[03:10:31] <stevel> PG=processor groups
[03:11:09] <boyd> Error_e^ipi: I have to ask. Did you get sick of 404?
[03:12:31] <nachox> huh? i thought mails from people that were not part of a given mailing list were queued to be reviewd, i mailed laptop discuss and it just got rejected
[03:13:06] <Error_e^ipi> boyd: kinna, yeah
[03:13:39] <nachox> also, osol-discuss is being seriously spammed
[03:13:48] <boyd> Am I supposed to calculate what power to raise e to to get 404?
[03:14:46] <AbeFroman> ln 404
[03:14:59] <boyd> well, quite
[03:15:01] <Error_e^ipi> e^ipi = -1
[03:15:48] <jmcpBris> boyd ::   $ echo "l(404)"|bc -l
[03:15:48] <jmcpBris> 6.00141487796115006971
[03:16:58] *** jsubl2 has quit IRC
[03:17:05] <Error_e^ipi> bris?
[03:17:16] <boyd> me?
[03:17:28] <Error_e^ipi> no, jmcp's nick is jmcpBris
[03:17:38] <Error_e^ipi> as in, jewish circumsision party
[03:17:42] <boyd> Oh, didn't notice
[03:17:45] <boyd> Heh
[03:17:59] <boyd> That *could* be where he is
[03:18:12] <Error_e^ipi> ircing from a bris?
[03:18:19] <hile_> they let you back into BNE, james?
[03:18:25] <Error_e^ipi> I'm not jewish, but i'd imagine that's bad form?
[03:18:26] <hile_> i thought they kicked you out of there years ago!
[03:18:28] <boyd> ... but my money is on Brisbane
[03:18:40] <Error_e^ipi> heh, that's a lot more likely
[03:18:50] <boyd> They have short memories up there. It's the lack of DST
[03:19:21] <hile_> then again, you all do DST the opposite of the rest of the world anyhow
[03:19:28] <jmcpBris> Error_e^ipi: bris as in Brisbane
[03:19:31] <jmcpBris> hile_: here for 2 days
[03:19:53] <hile_> did your stuff actually show up, jmcp?
[03:20:09] * hile_ notes that he writes illegibly, but didn't think it was THAT illegible!
[03:20:14] <boyd> hile_: It's only opposite for certain fascist definitions of simultanity
[03:20:14] <alanc> the spammers are hitting all the opensolaris lists now
[03:20:47] <boyd> I'm not seeing much of it. My normal filters must be catching it
[03:21:04] <alanc> definitely need to invest in better spam killers asap or the community will start suffering
[03:21:25] <jmcpBris> hile_: not yet
[03:21:35] <hile_> that's certainly messed up.
[03:21:36] <jmcpBris> hile_: you sure you didn't get a tracking number or anything?
[03:21:44] <Error_e^ipi> or close the forums for non-registered users
[03:21:49] <alanc> just got 5 from cyndarelli1111 at yahoo dot com to opensolaris-discuss, desktop-discuss, and opensolaris-bugs
[03:21:53] <quants> email is dead IM is the new king
[03:22:12] <richlowe> jmcpBris: you need a better abbreviation than Bris.
[03:22:15] <boyd> Yawn.
[03:23:12] <boyd> IM only works well when timezones are not involved, and people don't mind being constantly interrupted
[03:23:23] <jmcpBris> richlowe: some people refer to this place as brisvegas ...
[03:23:23] <hile_> jmcp: nope
[03:23:26] <hile_> that's the bitch of ground
[03:23:42] <jmcpBris> hile_: guess I'll have to keep waiting
[03:23:44] <richlowe> boyd: given the amount of people in these parts IRCing via gaim, and getting the worst of both worlds, I'm not sure you're correct.
[03:24:19] <boyd> richlowe: Well, I for one am not getting anything done at the moment :)
[03:24:26] <Error_e^ipi> irssi forever.
[03:26:19] <nachox> irc is the productivity nightmare most of the time, hehe
[03:27:49] <richlowe> woohoo, more spam via jive.
[03:28:25] <nachox> jive should be put down
[03:29:33] * jmcpBris wanders off for lunch
[03:30:59] *** MikeTLive has joined #opensolaris
[03:38:03] <lloy0076> Is Jive how that spam got there?
[03:38:17] *** jsubl2 has joined #opensolaris
[03:38:27] <richlowe> looks that way.
[03:38:33] <boyd> lloy0076: You need another reason to get rid of it? :)
[03:39:00] <boyd> How well to captchas work these days?
[03:39:03] <boyd> do
[03:39:13] *** UnixTitan has joined #opensolaris
[03:40:14] <nachox> there has to be something better than jive
[03:40:21] <boyd> Nothing?
[03:40:22] <boyd> :)
[03:40:42] <Error_e^ipi> pretty poorly when you hire a foreign kid to defeat them
[03:41:35] <boyd> You're right though. I'm constantly amazed at how web apps re-invent what came so many years before and do it badly. Web forums are really just Usenet minus features
[03:43:33] <nachox> there is just plain mailman to see the messages, how many guests not spammers use jive to post?
[03:43:57] <Error_e^ipi> I occasionally do
[03:45:07] *** stevel has quit IRC
[03:45:20] <Error_e^ipi> speaking of which, 1S your M@nh00d too small?
[03:45:58] *** quants has quit IRC
[03:46:12] <Error_e^ipi> heh
[03:47:28] <lloy0076> I'm using the default gnome-terminal on the JDS that came with ON 53...
[03:47:40] <Error_e^ipi> i'm sorry...
[03:47:43] <lloy0076> Anyone know what I should the zone that is...
[03:47:50] <lloy0076> errk
[03:47:58] <lloy0076> Anyone know what terminal type I should tell my zone that a gnome-terminal is?
[03:48:09] <boyd> xterm?
[03:48:13] <Error_e^ipi> xterm?
[03:48:16] <lloy0076> That's what I was thinking.
[03:48:21] *** Theoden-Nexenta has quit IRC
[03:48:24] <richlowe> certainly not xterms
[03:48:29] <richlowe> (note the s)
[03:48:50] <Error_e^ipi> xterm-color doesn't work either
[03:49:00] <Error_e^ipi> neither does the correct spelling ( xterm-colour )
[03:50:36] *** Theoden-Nexenta has joined #opensolaris
[03:51:20] *** edwardocallaghan has joined #opensolaris
[03:51:28] <edwardocallaghan> Hi all
[03:51:48] <boyd> Hey
[03:53:20] <edwardocallaghan> How's it going boyd ?
[03:56:30] <steleman> gnome-term
[03:56:31] <lloy0076> The choices don't have an xterm without the s...
[03:56:53] * lloy0076 lloy0076: So use other and type it you IDIOT
[03:57:01] * lloy0076 laughs at self
[03:57:12] <steleman> but it depends whether you have the terminfo entries for gnome-term compiled somewhere
[03:57:25] <steleman> and it also depends if gnome-term has been build with color ncurses
[03:57:28] <lloy0076> That didn't work at all.
[03:57:30] <steleman> s/build/built/
[03:57:44] <lloy0076> Now I'm stuck.
[03:57:49] <steleman> that would mean that your terminfo doesn't have gnome-term
[03:57:52] * lloy0076 deletes and remakes the zone
[03:57:54] <Error_e^ipi> hey steleman
[03:58:04] <steleman> Google for gnome-term terminfo download the file compile it with tic
[03:58:09] <steleman> hiya Error
[03:58:16] <Error_e^ipi> how goes?
[03:58:23] <steleman> it goes
[03:58:29] <steleman> :-)
[03:58:34] <lloy0076> I could but I'm meant to be doing other work. A job for later :)
[04:00:01] *** jsubl2 has quit IRC
[04:03:43] <boyd> lloy0076: What do you mean "that didn't work at all"?
[04:06:43] *** Gman has joined #opensolaris
[04:06:50] *** jsubl2 has joined #opensolaris
[04:09:57] *** peteh has quit IRC
[04:10:27] *** peteh has joined #opensolaris
[04:11:41] <lloy0076> boyd: After asking the terminal question, you then go through a console walk of an installation...
[04:11:48] <boyd> yah
[04:11:59] <lloy0076> boyd: I've got ncurses stuff with checkboxes that are invisible but there...
[04:12:08] <lloy0076> boyd: EG. If I cursor up to them they are there.
[04:12:33] <lloy0076> boyd: Hence, doing an install when you can't trust what it's saying (eg. the yes label is next to the no checkbox) is rather difficult.
[04:13:04] <boyd> Ah... yeah.. you can get by with 2 techniques. ESC-2 instead of F2 and ^N ^P rather than up-and-down arrow The off by one just needs getting used to
[04:13:21] <boyd> You could always fire up dtterm and tell it that. Works fine for me
[04:15:46] <lloy0076> Ah, thanks.
[04:15:53] <lloy0076> boyd: I'd never thought of using a different terminal :P
[04:18:49] *** istappning has quit IRC
[04:21:18] *** jsubl2 has quit IRC
[04:28:57] <edwardocallaghan> Good night all
[04:29:02] *** quants has joined #opensolaris
[04:29:04] *** edwardocallaghan has left #opensolaris
[04:31:05] *** Gman has quit IRC
[04:33:34] *** aspro has joined #opensolaris
[04:33:59] *** nachox has quit IRC
[04:35:10] *** tagsoup has joined #opensolaris
[04:41:57] *** alanc is now known as alanc-away
[04:47:12] * boyd makes a note to stop choosing to eagerly anticipate builds that are slow in coming
[04:47:31] <boyd> Of course, it could be that the anticipation makes it seems slower...
[04:53:09] <onbot> commit by Lin guo:  6488108 The L0 and L1 level of debug info in usb codes need to re-check.; 6493292 ldterm and ttcompat need to be autopushed above usb serial drivers
[04:54:29] <quants> I have the perfect movie scene:
[04:55:00] <quants> a bloody slaughter to the tune of "I will always love you."
[04:55:30] <quants> that aught to settle the stupid song for the next 100yrs
[04:55:39] <steleman> quants: something very similar's been done already. "American Psycho".
[04:56:02] <steleman> the main character butchers his colleagues with an ax to the music of "It's Hip To Be Square"
[04:56:06] <quants> steleman: right, I love that movie
[04:56:14] <steleman> i love it too. :-)
[04:56:29] <quants> I laughed my whole way through it
[04:56:33] <jmcpBris> ok ... we just got a rocket from Amiram - where are the dvd isos for the developer release?
[04:57:04] <jmcpBris> darn .. please ignore that, wrong window
[04:57:06] <quants> I think I creeped out the whole movie audience
[04:57:10] * jmcpBris larts self
[04:57:47] <quants> steleman: we must spoil that song form manly men everywhere
[04:57:55] <quants> for*
[04:57:58] <steleman> quants: LOL
[04:58:07] <steleman> i also love the scene before that with the business cards
[04:58:16] *** laca has quit IRC
[04:58:19] <quants> lol
[04:58:41] <quants> homoerotic pheer
[04:59:02] <steleman> that's the reason he chops his friend to pieces -- because he had a nicer business card
[04:59:30] <quants> lloy0076: omg lmao
[05:00:03] <quants> steleman: they were that same
[05:00:12] <quants> white carsd, the same
[05:00:15] *** freakazoid0223 has quit IRC
[05:00:20] <steleman> yeah of course
[05:00:31] <steleman> but he thought his friends' were nicer
[05:00:34] <steleman> that's what matters :-)
[05:00:41] <quants> the axe sene was great
[05:00:58] <quants> the lil dance to get in closer
[05:01:03] <steleman> lol
[05:01:39] <quants> and the rain coat, omg I was wipping tears from my eyes
[05:02:16] <quants> man this lag is killing me
[05:02:17] <steleman> lol
[05:02:50] <quants> CSI would have a field day with that movie
[05:03:27] <quants> dead hookers everywhere a CSI special
[05:03:37] <steleman> :-)
[05:03:47] <quants> and the chain saw
[05:04:08] *** dunc has joined #opensolaris
[05:04:22] <quants> in movie history the one stupid woman to run _down_ the stairs
[05:04:36] <quants> what did she get?
[05:04:55] <quants> errrrrrrrrr splat
[05:09:57] *** UnixTitan has quit IRC
[05:10:17] *** hspaans has quit IRC
[05:12:37] *** freakazoid0223 has joined #opensolaris
[05:17:10] *** trs81 has joined #opensolaris
[05:29:49] *** loke_ has quit IRC
[05:30:48] *** loke_ has joined #opensolaris
[05:39:24] *** djgregor_ has joined #opensolaris
[05:40:57] *** aspro has left #opensolaris
[05:43:49] *** delewis has quit IRC
[05:49:44] <Kmays> b58?
[05:49:51] <Kmays> ack!
[05:50:10] <Error_e^ipi> what happened to 56 & 57?
[05:50:13] *** delewis has joined #opensolaris
[05:51:28] <Kmays> (features.. have to wait..was awaiting b56)
[05:52:22] <Error_e^ipi> what features?
[05:54:22] <boyd> Where did talk of 58 come from?
[05:55:15] <Error_e^ipi> i dunno
[05:55:20] <Error_e^ipi> randomly far as i can tell
[05:58:40] *** Gman has joined #opensolaris
[05:59:28] <Triskelios> I still want my damn b55
[05:59:37] <boyd> Me too
[05:59:45] <simford> Gman, hiya
[05:59:49] <simford> Gman, how have you been
[06:00:23] <Gman> hey simford
[06:00:28] <Gman> ok, just at linux.conf.au
[06:00:40] <simford> Gman, cool
[06:00:44] <simford> anything interesting?
[06:01:15] <Gman> http://linux.conf.au
[06:01:20] <Gman> big schedule, lots of interesting stuff :)
[06:01:55] * simford is reading
[06:05:30] <simford> Gman, yup, lots of stuff
[06:05:31] *** Kmays has quit IRC
[06:05:41] <simford> Gman, anything about opensolaris? ;)
[06:06:01] <Gman> no
[06:08:00] *** lloy0076 has quit IRC
[06:09:14] *** Hobz has joined #opensolaris
[06:14:02] <jmcpBris> simford: it's a linux conference. why would you expect to hear anything about any form of Solaris at it?
[06:14:03] *** Theoden-Nexenta has left #opensolaris
[06:16:07] <simford> jmcpBris, if opensolaris is strong enough, then you would hear sth in a linux conf like "I like/hate opensolaris" ;)
[06:16:58] <dlg> bris eh
[06:17:28] *** Gman has quit IRC
[06:18:36] <jmcpBris> simford: I have my own theories about what sort of comments one might hear
[06:20:09] <Hobz> what kind of wireless support does opensolaris have?
[06:20:37] <Error_e^ipi> i had good experiences
[06:20:40] <Error_e^ipi> ymmv
[06:20:46] <jmcpBris> Hobz: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/laptop/wireless
[06:21:08] <Hobz> thanks jmcpBris, much appreciated
[06:21:57] *** boyd_ has joined #opensolaris
[06:22:06] <jmcpBris> yw
[06:23:09] <onbot> commit by qz150045:  6503464 the prompt messages in 'kbd -s' should be localized
[06:23:10] <Hobz> hmm, this is becoming more appealing
[06:24:30] *** boyd has quit IRC
[06:26:01] <Error_e^ipi> though if you use wireless, you must use inetmenu
[06:26:10] <Triskelios> thanks, openoffice: http://trisk.acm.jhu.edu/OMG.png
[06:26:13] <Error_e^ipi> it's not a requirement, but not using it is a PITA
[06:26:39] <onbot> commit by Anish Gupta:  6452694 x64: npe_fix_aer_ptr() cleanup; 6507882 Incorrect subsystem vendor ID for some devices
[06:26:53] <Hobz> what's intetmenu?
[06:28:10] <Hobz> nm
[06:28:22] <Error_e^ipi> it's a gui network manager
[06:28:33] <Error_e^ipi> it takes care of plumb & setup
[06:28:55] <Hobz> I'm familiar with configuring my wireless card in linux using iwconfig/ifconfig, is wificonfig similar?
[06:29:12] <Error_e^ipi> I don't know, never used iwconfig
[06:29:20] *** linma has quit IRC
[06:29:29] <Hobz> ah
[06:29:37] *** boyd_ is now known as boyd
[06:29:54] <Error_e^ipi> i ditched linux before iwconfig was invented
[06:29:56] <g4lt-U60> so how's WPA with wifi?
[06:30:17] <Error_e^ipi> g4lt-U60: WEP works
[06:30:24] <Error_e^ipi> ...
[06:30:30] <Hobz> kinda-sorta works
[06:30:32] <richlowe> there's a wpa_supplicant download in the laptop community, iirc
[06:30:56] <jbk> i think it's only for one chipset though
[06:31:01] <Error_e^ipi> only for madwifi
[06:31:06] <g4lt-U60> Error_e^ipi, so does putting your personal information up on billboards, but you don't see me doing that either
[06:31:24] <g4lt-U60> mad == atheros?
[06:31:38] <Error_e^ipi> I use wep to keep my neighbours from using my connection accidently
[06:31:45] <Hobz> nah, doesn't seem to have any driver limitations
[06:31:48] <Error_e^ipi> otherwise I treat wifi like any other untrusted network
[06:32:16] <Hobz> I'm setting up a VPN for mine once I find a spare box
[06:34:27] <g4lt-U60> well, no wifi for sparc, and I'd have to jump through hoops to get my present wifi to work in sol/x86.  until I can make my U60 my wired+wireless router or make WPA work on my craptop to get it seamless in my nyetwork, looks like sol/x86 and I will be strangers
[06:36:25] *** linma has joined #opensolaris
[06:45:49] *** benr has quit IRC
[06:45:55] *** Gman has joined #opensolaris
[06:49:09] <Tpenta> how's the conference glynn?
[06:51:00] *** alfism_ has quit IRC
[06:51:10] *** broadcast has quit IRC
[06:51:11] *** Tpenta has quit IRC
[06:52:28] *** Tpenta has joined #opensolaris
[06:52:39] <Error_e^ipi> gack... opensol gpl stuff hit fark now
[06:52:55] <Error_e^ipi> where did this silly rumour even come from?
[06:53:02] *** broadcast has joined #opensolaris
[06:53:11] * Gman doubts it's a rumour
[06:53:20] <Gman> those sorts of things never are
[06:53:33] <Gman> not that i actually know anything though..
[06:57:03] *** rodrickbrown has quit IRC
[07:11:33] *** bougie has joined #opensolaris
[07:13:34] <Triskelios> Gman: say hi to Aeriana at the registration desk for me (you might remember her from cricket at last year's)
[07:16:40] <Gman> Triskelios, i will if i see her, though the name doesn't ring a bell
[07:17:38] *** Hobz has quit IRC
[07:18:22] <Error_e^ipi> evidently for some reason I've decided to become solaris' pimp on digg
[07:19:40] <Triskelios> Gman: it wasn't on her tag (but neither was her real name iirc)
[07:19:51] <Gman> useful :)
[07:21:46] *** mercykiller has joined #opensolaris
[07:27:00] *** Gman has quit IRC
[07:43:38] <onbot> commit by as198278:  6479563 cpustat fails on system with 256 cpus
[07:50:18] *** jmcpBris has quit IRC
[07:53:06] *** bougie has quit IRC
[07:53:07] <Error_e^ipi> how did anyone manage to stumble on *that* one?
[07:55:14] <sickness> lol
[07:58:47] <Doc> haha.. it actually fails because it runs out of file descriptors (default is 256)
[08:05:54] <Error_e^ipi> biggest machine Sun sells is what, 144 cores?
[08:06:25] <Doc> today - yes.
[08:08:28] *** swa_mobil has joined #opensolaris
[08:09:26] *** dunc has quit IRC
[08:26:13] *** linma has quit IRC
[08:46:01] *** rodrickbrown has joined #opensolaris
[08:47:58] *** mazon is now known as Mazon
[08:50:28] <_syphilis_> are there any plans to make kaio work on sockets?
[08:50:54] *** Cyrille has joined #opensolaris
[08:53:30] *** broadcast has quit IRC
[08:58:06] *** broadcast has joined #opensolaris
[08:58:16] *** ShadowHntr has joined #opensolaris
[09:12:51] *** deather_ is now known as deather
[09:22:54] *** simford|wfh has joined #OpenSolaris
[09:29:01] *** simford has quit IRC
[09:33:16] *** yongsun has joined #opensolaris
[09:38:01] <ofu> can anybody tell me where to find SUNWhd (disk utility for X4500)?
[09:39:36] <ofu> i couldnt find it on the sol10u3-dvd, the companion dvd and the bootable diagnostics cd that came with the system
[09:41:43] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris
[09:42:38] *** Gman has joined #opensolaris
[09:45:52] <Cyrille> ofu: wasn't it preinstalled on the system?
[09:47:08] <ofu> i jumpstarted it with our config
[09:47:21] *** linma has joined #opensolaris
[09:47:42] <Cyrille> it looks like it should be on your diagnostic CD, anyway you may be able to download it from http://www.sun.com/download/products.xml?id=45007c22
[09:51:49] *** Mazon is now known as mazon
[09:55:42] <ofu> the system came with "Bootable Diagnostics CD 2.1f", but i couldnt the package
[09:56:14] *** alobbs has joined #opensolaris
[09:56:22] *** mazon is now known as Mazon
[09:57:33] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris
[09:59:21] *** yongsun has quit IRC
[09:59:42] <Cyrille> ofu: well as I don't have that CD I can't really help you there.
[10:00:13] *** axxl has joined #opensolaris
[10:10:06] *** yippi has quit IRC
[10:10:07] *** alanc_away has quit IRC
[10:10:07] *** alanc-away has quit IRC
[10:10:24] *** yippi has joined #opensolaris
[10:10:25] *** alanc-away has joined #opensolaris
[10:10:28] *** alanc_away has joined #opensolaris
[10:18:38] *** bunker_work has joined #opensolaris
[10:22:09] *** ShadowHntr has quit IRC
[10:22:33] <raph_ael> hello
[10:24:07] *** Gman has left #opensolaris
[10:25:17] *** swa_mobil has quit IRC
[10:27:45] *** Torkel5 has joined #opensolaris
[10:30:55] *** MattMan has joined #opensolaris
[10:32:44] <Torkel5> If I try to play a normal audio-CD on SXCR for Sparc, everything works fine except the sound quality is really bad, just static. Otherwise sound is good. Any ideas?
[10:35:00] <Berny> sounds like a byte-swapping problem
[10:35:14] <Berny> there was a thread on desktop-discuss about that iirc
[10:39:25] <Torkel5> What is iirc?
[10:39:46] *** Fish has joined #opensolaris
[10:40:38] <Fish> hello
[10:41:44] <Gr|ffous> if I recall correctly
[10:43:45] <Doc> it's like an enhanced version of irc
[10:44:24] <tomww> thats irssi :-)
[10:45:13] <razrX> lol
[10:50:21] <Torkel5> So, have anyone of u been able to play an audio-CD on SXCR for Sparc?
[10:52:47] <Gr|ffous> I've only used x86 sorry
[10:54:43] <Torkel5> So it works on x86, then?
[10:56:34] <Gr|ffous> I don't know sorry.
[10:56:59] <Gr|ffous> I'd expect that cd playing should work fine under sparc, but I can't be of any help there sorry
[10:59:23] <Torkel5> If u have an audio-cd somewhere, perhaps u could try it on your x86?
[11:00:02] <Gr|ffous> yeah, I listen to audio cds
[11:00:03] <lasseoe> I've played audio cds on SPARC since Solaris 2.4, I'd be surprised it was broken now
[11:00:09] <lasseoe> though I guess it's possible
[11:03:48] *** uebayasi has quit IRC
[11:04:17] *** gallium has joined #opensolaris
[11:04:29] <Torkel5> All I know is that the problem is not the audio-CD because I have tried many different working CDs. All of them are original, not selfburned.
[11:05:50] *** Dar has quit IRC
[11:07:32] *** damienc has joined #opensolaris
[11:07:53] <Torkel5> The built-in speaker is mono and the CDs are usually stereo. Perhaps that can be a problem?
[11:08:11] * gallium searches for THE-POC.
[11:08:36] <tsoome> I don't believe, and you can connect some externalt speakers/phones
[11:10:01] *** Snake007uk has joined #opensolaris
[11:17:26] *** zorba64 has joined #opensolaris
[11:17:33] *** simford|wfh has quit IRC
[11:23:10] *** zorba64 has left #opensolaris
[11:26:09] <onbot> commit by vi117747:  6480199 header files in libsip needs clean-up; 6481951 SIP timer doesn't schedule timeouts accurately; 6484530 Memory leak in deleting partial dialogs
[11:28:25] *** thomsog has joined #opensolaris
[11:28:46] *** Berny_ has joined #opensolaris
[11:28:49] <Berny_> morning
[11:29:19] <Berny_> would anyone happen to know what a "child is stopped by signal 22" means? what the heck is signal 22?
[11:30:14] <trygvis> kill -l lists all signals
[11:31:34] <zdzichuBG> SIGTTOU
[11:31:43] <zdzichuBG> child was trying to print something on terminal
[11:32:50] <lasseoe> http://blogs.sun.com/pnayak/entry/solaris_device_drivers_in_java
[11:32:51] <lasseoe> hmmmmm!
[11:33:16] <trygvis> :D
[11:33:20] <Berny_> hmm, how do i redirect the output of a child process?
[11:35:05] <PerterB> once it's running, you can't redirect the output... but you can "stty -tostop" to prevent background processes from being sent SIGTTOU
[11:35:23] <PerterB> of course then their output will be mixed in with whatever you are doing
[11:37:42] <PerterB> lasseoe: I can't decide if that's some kind of elaborate practical joke :)
[11:37:59] <Berny_> phantastic! cheers peter
[11:40:04] *** yippi has quit IRC
[11:40:55] <Gr|ffous> argh, this is killing me here, are there some swap tunables? My system is swapping so badly that I can barely move the mouse as I browse the web. I have 700MB of ram free?!
[11:42:17] <PerterB> does vmstat -p tell you what kind of stuff is being paged?
[11:43:00] <Gr|ffous> api is around 500 on average, what does that mean?
[11:43:13] <jteo> Gr|ffous: firefox leaks pixmaps.
[11:43:23] <Gr|ffous> that's why I don't use it :)
[11:44:00] <Gr|ffous> mf in the hundreds
[11:44:05] <PerterB> means some process is paging in anonymous pages (ie heap) from swap
[11:44:41] <jteo> prstat -s size
[11:44:55] <PerterB> so maybe you have some huge process that got swapped out in the past and is now being paged back in because you have free ram?
[11:45:39] <Gr|ffous> piece by painful piece I guess. eog went nuts before, used around 1400MB of ram. stupid thing, had to pkill it twice
[11:46:02] <Gr|ffous> that was the cause, but man is the system slow at paging ram back in again
[11:46:51] <Torkel5> tsoome: I just tried with headphones. Still same problem.
[11:46:58] <Gr|ffous> jteo, opera seems to be the main user, which is expected 473Size, and 348 RSS. I remember that under linux one couldn't take these figures at face value, what is the story with reading prstat's numbers?
[11:47:31] <jteo> Gr|ffous: vmstat -p ?
[11:47:43] <PerterB> prstat doesn't lie, but it does count shared pages for every process that has them mapped
[11:49:24] <Gr|ffous> when opera lets me type a url, I'll raft it for you jteo
[11:49:56] <jteo> Gr|ffous: :)
[11:50:24] <Gr|ffous> http://rafb.net/p/IVjoGL81.html
[11:50:25] *** logic has joined #opensolaris
[11:50:41] <Gr|ffous> phew! that took a while!
[11:51:32] <Gr|ffous> prstat: http://rafb.net/p/e3jpZH20.html
[11:52:45] <jteo> looks normal. I agree with PerterB's diagnosis. You have some huge process (opera?) being swapped back in. slowly.
[11:52:46] <jteo> :)
[11:53:16] <Gr|ffous> painfully! :)
[11:53:30] <Gr|ffous> I'll restart it, I guess that'll do it
[11:54:23] <Gr|ffous> phwoar, look at those pages fly!
[11:54:30] <PerterB> or maybe the eog you mentioned stole all available RAM causing pretty much everything to be paged out, and because it's all related Gnome processes it's all trying to page in at once...
[11:55:56] *** paul has quit IRC
[11:56:34] <Gr|ffous> heh, it's kinda fun watching opera roar to the top of prstat again
[11:56:39] <Gr|ffous> 400MB and climbing! woo :)
[11:57:18] <Gr|ffous> _much_ more responsive this time. Thanks guys
[12:01:09] *** Fish has quit IRC
[12:01:55] *** Fish has joined #opensolaris
[12:05:00] *** swa_mobil has joined #opensolaris
[12:16:13] *** Torkel5 has quit IRC
[12:16:43] *** iodine has joined #opensolaris
[12:26:33] *** Gman has joined #opensolaris
[12:28:58] <Vanuatoo> Flash 9 has been released for linux. Does anyone know if there any plans for solaris?
[12:30:36] <Cyrille> can't wait to see all the new intrusive commercials it'll be used for in popup windows from bleeding edge websites, hmm?
[12:33:14] <Doc> that's what adblock is for
[12:34:18] <boyd> Cyrille: Don't forget the delay while you wait for someones self-indulgent non-standard UI loads
[12:34:44] <Cyrille> and the animated flaming rotating skulls and the background music.
[12:35:45] * boyd can't get the image of the original Doom out of his head now, thanks to the flaming skulls
[12:37:22] *** _357181_ is now known as estibi
[12:42:27] <LeftWing> lol
[12:43:12] <Doc> i'm not sure i could trust my camera sitting there like that...
[12:43:25] <Doc> hell, i dont trust my camera sitting on top of a manfrotto tripod! :)
[12:43:48] <boyd> Umm.. what?
[12:44:47] <LeftWing> Doc's thinking camera thoughts, seemingly.
[12:45:26] <Doc> blah.. wrong channel
[12:45:28] <boyd> He wouldn't trust his camera around all those flaming skulls?
[12:45:32] <boyd> Ah
[12:45:35] <LeftWing> haha
[12:45:40] <LeftWing> Hell, I wouldn't. =P
[12:45:52] <LeftWing> Damned demon thingies.
[12:47:56] *** Vanuatoo has quit IRC
[12:48:15] *** Vanuatoo has joined #opensolaris
[12:48:41] <Vanuatoo> Flash 9 has been released for linux. Does anyone know if there any plans for solaris?
[12:48:49] <trygvis> anyone know of a snmp tree showing the similar values to iostat?
[12:49:42] <boyd> Vanuatoo: are you wondering if anyone has learned the answer in the last 20 minutes since you asked the exact same question?
[12:52:21] <Vanuatoo> boyd: I've been disconnected. I thought my message did not get through. Sorry for flooding
[12:53:02] <tsoome> Vanuatoo: I guess you should write an email to a vendor?
[12:53:03] <boyd> Vanuatoo: It's no problem. I don't think anyone knows what goes on in Adobe's heads.
[12:53:20] <boyd> ... not very much sometimes I think
[12:54:07] *** gm152 has joined #opensolaris
[12:54:36] <Vanuatoo> I use solaris express and day by day more frequently unable to view some content, because at least flash 8 is required
[12:55:12] <tsoome> solaris is not for desktop...
[12:55:17] <Stric> one problem is that flash also supports webcams etc.. and last time I checked, the apis were not quite similar..
[12:55:17] <oxygene> yay proprietary standards
[12:55:26] * boyd nods. It's not been a problem for me. Maybe I'l using different sites. It's a bit lame when Sun's site is one of them
[12:55:42] <Vanuatoo> Hopefully solaris will get desktop availability like linux
[12:55:55] * boyd wonders who wants a website that can see through their webcam
[12:55:58] <Vanuatoo> boyd: I guess you use only sun.com :)
[12:56:13] <boyd> Vanuatoo: No, there's flash there
[12:56:41] <oxygene> boyd: for video chat sites, for example?
[12:57:12] <LeftWing> I remember when we used to use Software for that sort of thing, rather than Sites.
[12:57:27] <jteo> i suspect the current pool of solaris users don't use video chat sites. <sweeping generalisation>
[12:57:32] <Vanuatoo> tsoome: Do you recommned I stop using OpenSolaris as my java development platfrom?
[12:57:38] <boyd> I understand the theoretical need. it's the desire to allow random downloaded code to use my camera I'm not so sure about
[12:57:44] *** cmihai_ has joined #OpenSolaris
[12:57:54] <boyd> LeftWing: exactly
[12:58:02] <tsoome> Vanuatoo: development platform and desktop are not eactly the same thing;)
[12:58:08] <Stric> boyd: I think you have to allow it
[12:58:24] <LeftWing> tsoome: It's usable as a desktop, it's just not for the average Windows-bundled punter.
[12:58:57] <_syphilis_> boyd: flash is used for stuff like chat applets now.. it's the new java
[12:59:12] <Vanuatoo> LeftWing: It's barely usable. Usable at a minimal level
[12:59:16] <oxygene> tsoome: oh, "desktop" is probably the wrong metaphor for webcam-enabled-flash users' computers.. how about "playground"?
[12:59:45] <Vanuatoo> I wonder what OS is installed on Johnathan's laptop
[12:59:48] <tsoome> it depends what you expect from desktop.
[12:59:57] <LeftWing> Vanuatoo: That's bollocks.  I wouldn't class my Solaris desktop experience as minimal.
[13:00:05] <LeftWing> tsoome: This is true.
[13:00:11] * boyd sleeps
[13:00:27] <tsoome> I expect all regular bells'n'whistles. multimedia and mobile dongles support etc...
[13:00:49] <Vanuatoo> tsoome: Actually my problem is performance
[13:00:49] *** cmihai_ has quit IRC
[13:01:01] <LeftWing> Performance?
[13:01:09] <tsoome> upgrade to brains V2? ;)
[13:01:14] <Vanuatoo> The apps I'm using eat memory and cpu all the time
[13:01:27] <tsoome> well, insert some more?
[13:01:33] <LeftWing> Well in that case, it's perfectly fair to blame the operating system.
[13:01:34] <tsoome> or fix the apps;)
[13:01:37] <LeftWing> =P
[13:02:32] <Vanuatoo> LeftWing: If some apps work fast on some other OS and all that apps work slower on another one, I guess it's fair to blame OS
[13:02:41] <tsoome> no
[13:02:53] <andersmo> Vanuatoo: If there were any plans to port flash 9 to solaris, who would know? The guys who make flash, maybe? They're not here, I think. =)
[13:02:54] <tsoome> it's still app
[13:02:54] <Vanuatoo> Sun claims that Sun Studio compilers are better than gcc
[13:03:17] <tsoome> better compiler will not repair a broken implementation
[13:03:18] <Vanuatoo> So tell me why Firefox crawls on my Desktop and flies on linux
[13:03:29] <Vanuatoo> I guess there is one gnome
[13:03:36] <Vanuatoo> one firefox code for solaris/linux
[13:03:45] <tsoome> how the firefox is linked?
[13:04:09] <LeftWing> Firefox works fine for me.
[13:04:10] <jteo> then use linux. or fix firefox.
[13:04:32] <Vanuatoo> LeftWing: "fine" is a relative word
[13:04:39] *** MattMan is now known as MattAFC
[13:04:52] <oxygene> Vanuatoo: does the video driver provide the same level of acceleration?
[13:05:09] <Vanuatoo> oxygene: Absolutely
[13:05:12] <Vanuatoo> DRI over nvidia
[13:05:20] <LeftWing> Vanuatoo: No, seriously, it isn't.  I have a Mac Mini here, a Windows laptop (1.7Ghz Pentium M), and my Solaris desktop (actually a Sun Ray connected to a Sun Ray server) and I have the same Firefox experience on all three desktops.
[13:06:02] <oxygene> nvidia doesn't use DRI, but well.. in that case, you probably have to resort to linux, if that performance issue bothers you
[13:07:11] <Vanuatoo> oxygene: I don't want to go back to linux. I want that someone will pay attention to that in opensolaris. Of course it's an opensource project and I have no rights to complain, but still I wish it to be so.
[13:07:56] <Vanuatoo> just load linuxtoday.com for example in firefox and than pull the scroller fast up and down.
[13:07:57] <oxygene> Vanuatoo: then the first issue would be to identify the actual problem.. eg: try running the linux version of firefox in a branded zone - if it's faster, it can't be the operating system, but maybe compile flags
[13:08:20] <Cyrille> the problem is that it's a bit vague. If others don't experience the same slowdown as you do, they won't see much point in spending time on it.
[13:09:00] <Vanuatoo> Cyrille: If you sit on some powerful machine yes, But I don't think my AMD 3500+ with 1GB ram is slower one
[13:09:10] <Vanuatoo> Will 10k raptor drive
[13:09:14] *** cmihai has quit IRC
[13:09:21] <Vanuatoo> "with" I means
[13:09:22] *** mihaic has joined #OpenSolaris
[13:09:59] <Vanuatoo> FYI windows 2000 installs on this machine in under 10 minutes
[13:10:02] <oxygene> Vanuatoo: as said, I'd propose running the linux version in lx for a test - if that one is faster vis-a-vis the solaris version on the same box, there's something going on inside the firefox build
[13:10:03] <tsoome> well if you are comparing perfomance, then forst task (and not the easy one) is to compare apples with apples
[13:10:44] <oxygene> Vanuatoo: if that firefox-in-lx is actually much slower than firefox-on-linux, then there is something going on in solaris itself
[13:10:51] <tsoome> linuxworld likes desktop related perfomance optimizations - thisway they can "prove" they are better
[13:11:15] <Vanuatoo> I've got solaris express 12/06 buld 52. Do I have branded zones support?
[13:11:25] <Vanuatoo> tsoome: I will give you more neutral site
[13:12:06] <Vanuatoo> http://www.gnomedesktop.org/
[13:12:18] <oxygene> Vanuatoo: I _think_ brand-z appeared between 30 and 50 - "zoneadm list -cv" is there's a column "brand", then yes
[13:12:26] <Vanuatoo> the same effect. While loading the site cpu goes to 100%
[13:13:02] <Vanuatoo> there is a column brand
[13:13:33] <Cyrille> is that firefox or X which uses the CPU?
[13:13:38] <Vanuatoo> tsoome: For example when I play some mp3 using xmms and page loading happens it interfers with music playing
[13:13:41] <tsoome> load: 0.12, 98.5% idle
[13:13:52] <jteo> is RenderAccel enabled?
[13:13:59] <Vanuatoo> Cyrille: How do I find that?
[13:14:02] <Cyrille> prstat
[13:14:05] <Cyrille> for instance
[13:14:05] <Vanuatoo> jteo: It's enabled
[13:14:19] <Vanuatoo> prstat shows both of them are using
[13:15:06] <Cyrille> you mean they go at 50/50 when you get those 100% usage spike?
[13:15:11] <Cyrille> spikes even
[13:15:20] <Vanuatoo> no X uses more
[13:16:10] <Cyrille> so now we know X > firefox, only a few more equations and we can find the value of X.
[13:17:02] <Vanuatoo> for example I loaded now cnn.com and X was 21% and firefox 11
[13:17:30] <Vanuatoo> Now I have cnn.com running in background and firefox is using 10% and X 5
[13:17:36] * Stric uses a bunch of Blade1000 with creator3d as desktops, but 2d performance is pure crap on them..
[13:17:54] <Stric> a sunblade which has a radeon7000 chip beats the crap out of the b1k, hands down
[13:18:03] <Vanuatoo> Stric: I'm kind of happy I'm not alone
[13:18:06] <Stric> (running off a much slower machine)
[13:19:46] <Vanuatoo> For example If I drag this gaim window over the desktop there is a graphic tail and Xorg uses 22%
[13:22:01] *** lisppaste3 has quit IRC
[13:22:22] *** Gman has quit IRC
[13:26:43] <LeftWing> I can't say that I've ever seen Windows 2000 install in under 10 minutes.
[13:28:00] <tsoome> Vanuatoo: your X sucks;)
[13:28:11] *** lisppaste3 has joined #opensolaris
[13:28:21] <LeftWing> I can't help but wonder if he has the Nvidia binary drivers installed.
[13:28:48] <Vanuatoo> LeftWing: I have
[13:28:53] <Vanuatoo> latest version
[13:29:07] <Stric> they sure help me performance wise under linux (if I have DRI enabled, if not -> slower)
[13:29:10] <Vanuatoo> tsoome: And your not?
[13:29:18] <tsoome> what nope
[13:29:23] <tsoome> nope
[13:29:34] <Vanuatoo> What is your hardware?
[13:29:36] <LeftWing> Well how do I get more reasonable performance out of my Sun Rays than you claim to be getting from your local machine, Vanuatoo? =P
[13:29:41] <tsoome> W2110z
[13:29:58] <Stric> LeftWing: I get that too.
[13:30:11] <tsoome> nVidia Corporation NV34GL [Quadro FX 500/600 PCI] rev 161
[13:30:12] <oxygene> Vanuatoo: I really only see such effects on my sis300 based notebook (for which the video driver is written that linux centric that I can be happy that it's showing pixels at all). but not on my nvidia based desktop
[13:30:18] *** gm152 has quit IRC
[13:30:23] <Vanuatoo> Could it be because my video adapter is GeForce FX 5200?
[13:30:30] <LeftWing> FX 5200 should work fine.
[13:30:43] <LeftWing> Hell, I got pretty good performance out of a TNT2.
[13:30:50] * oxygene has an fx5200 (or 5000), too
[13:30:54] <Vanuatoo> Could it be because I have bad Xorg.conf?
[13:30:57] <oxygene> works fine when setup
[13:31:10] <LeftWing> Vanuatoo: Are you using the nv driver or the nvidia driver?
[13:31:12] <tsoome> could be
[13:31:31] <LeftWing> (In Xorg.conf)
[13:32:02] <Vanuatoo> Just a second I will post my Xorg.conf link
[13:32:07] <Vanuatoo> http://rafb.net/p/Gvvi8l91.html
[13:32:10] <Vanuatoo> here it is
[13:32:20] <Triskelios> it's "xorg.conf", people...
[13:32:32] <LeftWing> Hahahaha
[13:32:36] <oxygene> Vanuatoo: /usr/X11R6/bin/glxinfo|grep direct
[13:32:46] <LeftWing> I'm pretty sure that the accelerated driver is nv, isn't it?
[13:32:55] <oxygene> accelerated is "nvidia"
[13:33:06] <Vanuatoo> oxygene: direct rendering: Yes
[13:33:17] <LeftWing> ah, fair enough.
[13:33:18] <oxygene> Vanuatoo: hmm.. indicates that it's really the nvidia driver
[13:33:23] <LeftWing> Well that eliminates that possibility.
[13:33:32] <tsoome> Xorg.0.log would be nice as well;)
[13:33:37] <LeftWing> yeah, true.
[13:33:53] <Triskelios> and why do you have xorg.conf in SX? it's usually not necessary
[13:34:07] <oxygene> Triskelios: to enable "nvidia" instead of "nv"
[13:34:10] <LeftWing> mmm
[13:34:20] <Triskelios> oxygene: SX ships with nvidia
[13:34:29] <Triskelios> you don't need to do anything
[13:34:42] <tsoome> my Xorg is using nv
[13:34:43] <Stric> x11perf -all   could say stuff, but it takes a while to run ;)
[13:34:56] <tsoome> snv_50
[13:35:46] <Vanuatoo> Triskelios: If SX ships with nvidia, Why Do I need to install binary drivers everytime after upgrade, in order X to work?
[13:36:01] <Triskelios> tsoome: what does /usr/X/bin/constype return?
[13:36:02] <LeftWing> Vanuatoo: When you fire up X11, does the Nvidia logo flash up?
[13:36:02] <oxygene> Vanuatoo: because SX ships _old_ nvidia drivers that are somewhat broken
[13:36:33] <Vanuatoo> Here is: Xorg.0.log
[13:36:36] <Vanuatoo> http://rafb.net/p/YPGaui65.html
[13:36:44] <Vanuatoo> LeftWing: Sometimes I can see it
[13:36:51] <Cyrille> sometimes?
[13:37:02] <Vanuatoo> Cyrille: It happend very fast
[13:37:09] <Triskelios> Vanuatoo: it's working
[13:37:27] <Triskelios> according to your log
[13:37:40] <Cyrille> but it isn't (according to him) ;-)
[13:37:42] <Vanuatoo> I'm sure it's working
[13:38:03] <Vanuatoo> becase after I log in to my JDS, I run nvidia-settings to enable mouse shadow ;)
[13:38:10] <LeftWing> heh
[13:38:45] <Vanuatoo> So does my X still suck?
[13:38:52] <LeftWing> Good Question.
[13:39:04] <Triskelios> lol
[13:39:37] <Stric> Vanuatoo: try this.. go into the Desktop menu -> Settings -> Sessions..  Current session tab, select nautilus, hit remove and apply.. is stuff still too laggy?
[13:40:13] <Stric> (item names freely translated, you can probably guess if I mistranslated)
[13:42:54] <Triskelios> Vanuatoo: are you just complaining about trails when moving stuff?
[13:43:23] <Vanuatoo> Stric: a bit faster, but not so much
[13:43:30] <Vanuatoo> Triskelios: How do you think?
[13:43:43] <Vanuatoo> I would not bother titans because of this
[13:45:12] <Vanuatoo> Now I'm running xmms, If I take some firefox popup window (no flash content anywhere) and try to drag over cpu usage stays at 100%
[13:45:22] <Vanuatoo> Could you please confirm that?
[13:48:38] *** edwardocallaghan has joined #opensolaris
[13:48:42] <edwardocallaghan> Hi all
[13:49:40] *** onbot` has joined #opensolaris
[13:49:41] *** onbot has quit IRC
[13:51:14] <Triskelios> Vanuatoo: there isn't a huge spike in CPU usage here, maybe 20% difference for X
[13:51:54] <Triskelios> Vanuatoo: but the CPU usage and trails are a side effect of flaws in how X deals with moving windows
[13:52:51] <Vanuatoo> Is there any plans to to move to newer X
[13:53:29] <Triskelios> Vanuatoo: yes, Xorg 7.2 is planned for some future release
[13:53:35] <Cyrille> you mean like Y?
[13:54:30] <jteo> i prefer Z.
[13:54:31] <oxygene> or fresco, or picogui? "X successors" have the habit of eventually disappearing
[13:54:43] <Vanuatoo> 7.1 has been release on may 22
[13:54:47] <Vanuatoo> 2006.
[13:55:13] <Vanuatoo> why still 6.9. Where is the bleeding edge soul of opensolaris :)
[13:55:35] <Stric> solaris is more about stability than bleeding edge
[13:55:40] <LeftWing> Sitting in the box with the "Less tested" and the "Potential Instability".
[13:55:41] <Triskelios> Vanuatoo, that's being skipped over so that SX will eventually be in sync with X releases
[13:56:16] <LeftWing> 7.0 was more of a focus on the build system rather than X improvements, too, if I understand correctly.
[13:56:42] <Vanuatoo> LeftWing: yes but after that was 7.1 about 8 months ago
[13:56:43] <Stric> 6.9 and 7.0 is the same code, but different build system / packaging.. iirc
[13:57:02] <LeftWing> Vanuatoo: How much has actually changed in 7.1?
[13:57:28] <Vanuatoo> LeftWing: I don't know. I hope my problem will be fixed with that
[13:57:39] <Vanuatoo> or with more newer 7.2
[13:58:10] <LeftWing> I still feel that your problems lie in places other than the age of the code.
[13:59:01] <Vanuatoo> LeftWing: maybe. I just don't know how to diagnose problems
[14:00:17] <tsoome> btw, if you read nvidia readme, it tells nvidia driver will be used automatically if it's bound to console
[14:00:49] <tsoome> so you can try to move xorg.conf aside and see if there are any changes
[14:01:20] <Vanuatoo> what it means "if it's bound to console"?
[14:02:18] <Vanuatoo> So because I have nvidia binary drivers installed, I just remove my Xorg.conf somewhere and see what happens?
[14:02:32] <edwardocallaghan> Vanuatoo:What's seems to be the problem ?
[14:02:37] <tsoome> yes
[14:03:16] <Vanuatoo> edwardocallaghan: Shortly when using firefox, thunderbird system crawls
[14:03:41] <Vanuatoo> tsoome: I will try that shortly
[14:04:02] <edwardocallaghan> The new code has a revamp of DDC and auto detecting and configuring with a xorg.conf
[14:05:34] <edwardocallaghan> s/DDC/Display Data Channel/
[14:05:53] *** Berny_ has quit IRC
[14:06:22] <edwardocallaghan> What do you mean by crawls ?
[14:06:59] <edwardocallaghan> How is your network setup ?
[14:08:00] <Vanuatoo> edwardocallaghan: It's not about network. It works fine. They use too much of cpu that is reflected on system responsivness
[14:08:15] <Vanuatoo> mouse becomes unmanageable
[14:08:38] <edwardocallaghan> What version are they ?
[14:08:59] <edwardocallaghan> mem leakages ?
[14:09:05] <Triskelios> Vanuatoo: mouse lag is unusual, maybe you have an IRQ sharing problem
[14:09:38] <edwardocallaghan> Or IO yea, I was thinking that myself
[14:09:41] <LeftWing> That may also have a hand in audio choppiness.
[14:10:00] <edwardocallaghan> Although IO is uncommon
[14:10:09] <Vanuatoo> Should be there some log about IRQ problems?
[14:10:28] <LeftWing> You could look in your system's dmesg output.
[14:10:29] <Cyrille> boot log maybe
[14:10:57] <edwardocallaghan> don't know what it is in Solaris but $glxinfo |grep direct
[14:11:04] <edwardocallaghan> Does it say yes ?
[14:11:22] <Stric> yes
[14:11:23] <Vanuatoo> edwardocallaghan: yes
[14:11:34] <Vanuatoo> I have direct rendering on
[14:11:39] <edwardocallaghan> OK so 3D is working
[14:11:50] <edwardocallaghan> lspci -vv
[14:12:18] *** nachox has joined #opensolaris
[14:12:23] <Triskelios> edwardocallaghan: lspci?!
[14:12:34] <LeftWing> You may want to check that any IDE disks you're using aren't operating in PIO mode, too.
[14:12:35] <Vanuatoo> where is lspci?
[14:12:36] <Triskelios> edwardocallaghan: dude, he's using express...
[14:12:48] <edwardocallaghan> What chip set do you have on your motherboard ?
[14:13:05] <Vanuatoo> edwardocallaghan: it's Via k8t800 pro
[14:13:14] <edwardocallaghan> DMA could be doge but just a guess ?
[14:13:35] <nachox> morning
[14:13:52] <Vanuatoo> LeftWing: How to check that PIO mode?
[14:14:03] <Vanuatoo> edwardocallaghan: how to check DMA?
[14:14:48] <Triskelios> Vanuatoo: dmesg will say
[14:14:51] <oxygene> dmesg |grep DMA
[14:15:16] <LeftWing> You'd want to see something like "UltraDMA mode 5 selected" hopefully.
[14:15:28] <Vanuatoo> there are many lines saying UltraDMA mode 6 selected
[14:15:37] <Vanuatoo> the numbers are 6,5,2
[14:15:44] <Vanuatoo> those modes are selected
[14:15:48] *** mihaic is now known as cmihai
[14:16:02] <LeftWing> And you have three IDE devices? (Disks, CDs, etc)
[14:16:15] <edwardocallaghan> I found these http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/data/sol/systems/details/1682.html
[14:16:18] <Vanuatoo> I've got one Raptor driver, one IDE and one DVD-rom
[14:16:22] <LeftWing> righto
[14:16:23] <edwardocallaghan> http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/data/sol/systems/details/1657.html
[14:16:26] <LeftWing> How much RAM do you have, Vanuatoo?
[14:16:30] *** obsethryl has joined #opensolaris
[14:16:54] <Vanuatoo> 1GB
[14:17:09] <edwardocallaghan> Is that a SATA disk ?
[14:17:14] *** solarisnewbie has joined #opensolaris
[14:17:19] <Vanuatoo> edwardocallaghan: My raptor is first generation not full SATA
[14:17:25] <solarisnewbie> hello
[14:17:30] <edwardocallaghan> Hi
[14:17:39] <edwardocallaghan> I don't think that's supported yet
[14:17:40] <Vanuatoo> that's why it works I guess
[14:17:48] <solarisnewbie> I hear sun is giving out a free media kit. Has anyone got it?
[14:17:55] <edwardocallaghan> Have you tried a ATA133 ?
[14:17:58] <nachox> i did
[14:18:00] <LeftWing> I ordered one last week, solarisnewbie.
[14:18:06] <Vanuatoo> I'm  pretty sure HDD is not the problem
[14:18:29] <edwardocallaghan> I am sure too
[14:18:31] <Vanuatoo> I'm also using IDE for storing some files and it also works fine
[14:18:44] <solarisnewbie> some say that they ship the 6/06 instead of the 11/06 is it true ?
[14:18:47] <solarisnewbie> LeftWing: did you recieve it yet ?
[14:19:04] <LeftWing> solarisnewbie: Not yet.  Expecting delays of 10 business days at least, apparently.
[14:19:11] <edwardocallaghan> But if the driver is doge on that controller it may be doing funny things to IRQ's ect...
[14:19:28] <Triskelios> Vanuatoo: dmesg | grep IRQ and echo ::interrupts | mdb -k
[14:20:29] <Vanuatoo> Triskelios: http://rafb.net/p/6fRItf50.html
[14:20:44] <nachox> solarisnewbie: yes, that is true, it's 6/6 plust studio 11
[14:20:47] <Vanuatoo> Triskelios: dmesg gives nothing about IRQ
[14:21:21] <solarisnewbie> nachox: is it possible to upgrade solaris 6/06 to 11/06 ?
[14:21:28] <edwardocallaghan> Have you gone though the BIOS and disabled any thing that does not look nice ?
[14:21:33] <Vanuatoo> solarisnewbie: it is
[14:21:52] <Vanuatoo> edwardocallaghan: I don't think so
[14:21:59] <Vanuatoo> maybe ACPI
[14:22:08] <Triskelios> Vanuatoo: looks okay actually, nothing shared between different drivers
[14:22:14] <edwardocallaghan> Yes...
[14:22:25] <Vanuatoo> because it was preventing my previous installation
[14:22:33] <edwardocallaghan> I got a idea what it is
[14:22:48] <edwardocallaghan> What CPU have you got and has it got scaling ?
[14:23:19] <Vanuatoo> edwardocallaghan: It's 130nm Athlon64 3500+ (2.2Ghz) single core
[14:23:34] <edwardocallaghan> Can you do a BIOS upgrade ?
[14:23:47] <solarisnewbie> Vanuatoo: how easy is it to upgrade to a more recent release. Is it possible using a single command ?
[14:23:49] <Vanuatoo> I already did
[14:24:04] <Vanuatoo> solarisnewbie: Put DVD and tell it to upgrade
[14:24:06] <edwardocallaghan> OK, then can you disable ACPI in the BIOS ?
[14:24:19] <Vanuatoo> edwardocallaghan: I think it's disabled
[14:24:22] <Vanuatoo> should I check it
[14:24:25] <Vanuatoo> ?
[14:24:32] <edwardocallaghan> Yes very much so
[14:24:46] <edwardocallaghan> ACPI is power saving in effect
[14:25:07] <Vanuatoo> edwardocallaghan: How ACPI is connected to my firefox problem is out of my imagination
[14:25:10] <edwardocallaghan> It slows down your CPU into a 'lower' power state
[14:25:34] <solarisnewbie> Vanuatoo: I mean via the web. Say I only have Solaris 6/06 DVD and I want to upgrade to 11/06. I do not have the 11/06 DVD with me.
[14:25:43] <edwardocallaghan> I once had this problem with a Linux system on a Sony laptop
[14:26:02] <Vanuatoo> I was booting gentoo linux kernel with noapic parameter
[14:26:27] <Vanuatoo> In order to recognize my raptor drive
[14:26:36] <edwardocallaghan> Edward wonders if there is the same thing on Solaris ?
[14:26:43] <Vanuatoo> but solaris had no problems finding it without hacks
[14:27:02] <lasseoe> solarisnewbie: download 11/06, burn CD or DVD and upgrade
[14:27:19] <edwardocallaghan> It does mean that your ACPI tables may be ... doge
[14:27:42] <Vanuatoo> solarisnewbie: I don't see any need to get that gift from sun because it's already outdated
[14:28:06] <edwardocallaghan> solarisnewbie:You can download patches if and when you need to try them
[14:28:28] <solarisnewbie> lasseoe: I do not want to download another freaking 4 GB data which is why I asked the question about the upgrade via the web. I was wondering whether there is any simple upgrade path such as that in debian.
[14:28:29] <lasseoe> yes, if he has a support contract
[14:28:44] <Vanuatoo> edwardocallaghan: I notice one strange thing with my computer. If I boot with some livecd, for example ubuntu and then reboot my NIC is gone from bios
[14:28:47] <lasseoe> solarisnewbie: I've already answered your question, that's how it works
[14:28:48] <LeftWing> 4GB is a fantastic amount to download.
[14:28:57] <Vanuatoo> I have to poweroff my computer and after that NIC is back
[14:29:03] <edwardocallaghan> prtconf -pv
[14:29:14] <Cyrille> how do you expect that installing from the web would somehow download less data than getting the DVD image to burn one?
[14:29:25] <tsoome> solarisnewbie: and why do you think upgrade via web will not download this data? ;)
[14:29:32] <jteo> Cyrille: because the internet is just a bunch of tubes!
[14:29:45] <edwardocallaghan> Most BIOS's are ! FULL ! of bugs !
[14:30:02] <triplah_> hmm i know this has probably been discussed a bit today
[14:30:09] <Cyrille> jteo: it is? And there was me thinking it was a big truck...
[14:30:12] <triplah_> but whats the osol take on gplv3?
[14:30:19] <solarisnewbie> edwardocallaghan: I am interested in their "secure by default" OS which is why I wish to upgrade.
[14:30:20] <jteo> Cyrille: VW van full of DVDs. ;)
[14:30:29] <nachox> hehe
[14:30:42] <lasseoe> solarisnewbie: there's only one (1) upgrade path, and that's downloading the new image
[14:31:08] <edwardocallaghan> solarisnewbie:What do you plan to use Solaris for ?
[14:31:15] <solarisnewbie> lasseoe: thanks for the help. I appreciate it.
[14:31:16] <edwardocallaghan> Home desktop ?
[14:31:17] <lasseoe> or order a mediakit, but that's definitely slower :)
[14:31:35] <Triskelios> triplah_: looks like it's inevitable at this point
[14:31:39] <solarisnewbie> edwardocallaghan: I wish to learn solaris. My nick is the hint ;-)
[14:31:50] <edwardocallaghan> OK
[14:31:51] <triplah_> Triskelios: is that a bad thing?
[14:32:00] *** merlin_ has joined #opensolaris
[14:32:04] <triplah_> Triskelios: i think it looks great :)
[14:32:07] <Vanuatoo> edwardocallaghan: http://rafb.net/p/DDlvJt23.html
[14:32:08] <Cyrille> jteo: that's also what the people who insist on attaching "hilarious" animations to their emails to their whole address book (half the intarwebs population by my last estimate) rather than sending a link to whichever page it can ignored from think...
[14:33:15] <solarisnewbie> could you recommend a good book on solaris ?
[14:33:33] <cmihai> docs.sun.com
[14:33:34] * nachox is against dual-licencing anything, it has little benefit and leads to problems when people start using one licence but not the other
[14:34:49] <edwardocallaghan> solarisnewbie:I am learning too, I found http://www.gnusolaris.org/ helps me learn the Solaris kernel and tool set when I get lost, so it maybe worth having a dual boot with the two ?
[14:36:14] <nachox> solaris internals is really nice if you want in depth knowledge, but if you are just interested in administering a solaris box, docs.sun.com is the place
[14:36:55] <Cyrille> bigadmin is also useful for that purpose.
[14:37:14] <edwardocallaghan> I also found this book helps bridge the gape between my Linux know how http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sun-Certified-System-Administrator-Solaris/dp/0072229594/sr=8-1/qid=1169127367/ref=pd_ka_1/203-0837109-2543153?ie=UTF8&s=books
[14:37:29] <solarisnewbie> edwardocallaghan: gnusolaris  is a very promising distribution. :)
[14:37:42] <edwardocallaghan> I think so!
[14:37:58] <nachox> only if you dobt hate apt :P
[14:38:05] <edwardocallaghan> It gets SunOS on the client side
[14:38:06] <nachox> *dont
[14:38:19] *** delewis has quit IRC
[14:38:41] <edwardocallaghan> Try yum then try it agine
[14:38:44] <edwardocallaghan> ;)
[14:40:19] <solarisnewbie> edwardocallaghan: have you bought the Sun Certified system administrator book ? Even I feel it is a good book. But I thought I will ask around.
[14:40:38] <edwardocallaghan> Yes I got it next to me
[14:40:39] <nachox> i'm happy enought with slackware's package management, it's primitive but it hardly ever chokes
[14:40:46] <solarisnewbie> nachox: solaris internals is a bit heavy for me at this stage. But thanks for the suggestion.
[14:41:07] <edwardocallaghan> I found it really puts everything to get a understanding of what the hell your doing in one place
[14:41:45] <edwardocallaghan> Then if you don't know something at that stage you can work it out your self or know where to look...
[14:42:14] <solarisnewbie> edwardocallaghan: are you talking about the book ?
[14:42:27] <edwardocallaghan> #gnusol is the IRC for that distro I showed you
[14:42:30] <edwardocallaghan> Yes
[14:44:09] <onbot`> commit by zh199473:  6511567 sparc server v240 can't load network service after bfu from snv55 to snv56
[14:45:14] *** Vanuatoo has left #opensolaris
[14:51:09] *** triplah_ has quit IRC
[14:52:46] *** mega has joined #opensolaris
[14:55:30] *** solarisnewbie has quit IRC
[14:56:00] *** obsethryl has quit IRC
[15:00:36] *** Andrew_ has quit IRC
[15:02:32] <edwardocallaghan> solarisnewbie:Hi, are you on Solaris now?
[15:06:14] *** delewis has joined #opensolaris
[15:10:39] *** MikeTLive has quit IRC
[15:20:37] *** Vanuatoo has joined #opensolaris
[15:25:30] *** iodine has quit IRC
[15:27:11] *** sommerfeld has joined #opensolaris
[15:27:11] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o sommerfeld
[15:30:32] <edwardocallaghan> If any one want cheap RAM and some other things, I am selling mostly everything I have on ebay
[15:30:36] <edwardocallaghan> See http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220072952643
[15:34:50] *** mrdeviant has joined #opensolaris
[15:40:13] *** gallium has quit IRC
[15:44:52] *** UnixTitan has joined #opensolaris
[15:50:56] *** logic has quit IRC
[15:50:59] *** logic_ has joined #opensolaris
[15:51:58] *** laca has joined #opensolaris
[16:01:43] *** qufk is now known as kFuQ
[16:04:00] *** jcea has left #opensolaris
[16:07:59] *** hile_ has quit IRC
[16:08:15] *** Mazon is now known as mazon
[16:08:37] *** minerale has quit IRC
[16:08:40] *** minerale has joined #opensolaris
[16:10:19] *** jcea has joined #opensolaris
[16:10:48] *** RaD|Tz has joined #opensolaris
[16:17:20] *** dme_ has joined #opensolaris
[16:17:41] <edwardocallaghan> See you guys later tonight
[16:18:04] *** edwardocallaghan has left #opensolaris
[16:18:04] *** CosmicDJ has joined #OpenSolaris
[16:18:44] *** hile_ has joined #opensolaris
[16:21:51] <quants> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37032
[16:22:17] <asyd> again and again this rumor
[16:23:06] <nachox> and it proliferated from the same source, eweek
[16:23:25] <movement> thankfully: http://blogs.sun.com/richgreen/entry/all_the_news_that_s
[16:23:30] <CosmicDJ> I won't believe this until it's actually set in stone...
[16:23:43] <nachox> someone should sue them for spreading fud
[16:24:10] <CosmicDJ> I hope it is...
[16:24:12] <quants> fear of GPLv3?
[16:24:25] <quants> uncertainty of the GPLv3?
[16:24:37] <quants> doubt of the GPLv3?
[16:24:37] <asyd> well, the GPLv3 is still a draft actually, right ?
[16:24:42] *** dme has quit IRC
[16:24:43] <nachox> yes
[16:25:21] <quants> oh noes we can't use solaris it might be GPLv3 soon!
[16:26:11] <Error_e^ipi> running it isn't the issue, contributing code is the issue
[16:26:24] <CosmicDJ> forced contribution?
[16:26:34] <quants> CosmicDJ: ahahah
[16:26:49] <nachox> first all the needed closed bits that are mandatory for solaris should be open anyway
[16:26:53] *** Tpenta has quit IRC
[16:27:16] <Error_e^ipi> nachox: look what you did... you broke tpenta
[16:28:25] <nachox> he deserved it i do not like the guy anyway ;)
[16:28:35] <quants> what does the GPLv3 have to do with the CDDL?
[16:28:49] <Error_e^ipi> quants: apart from being incompatible?
[16:29:23] <quants> Error_e^ipi: dual licensing
[16:29:49] <quants> try as I might I can't see the FUD here
[16:30:45] <Error_e^ipi> "free software" advocates are like ravenous dogs. sun GPL'ed java, and they got the taste for blood & want more
[16:31:00] <quants> Error_e^ipi: full of it
[16:31:23] <Error_e^ipi> they keep spreading rumours hoping it'll be true... like apple fans & the tablet ibook which is due out 6 years ago
[16:31:38] *** bougie has joined #opensolaris
[16:31:48] *** dme_ is now known as dme
[16:32:05] <quants> Error_e^ipi: that is called libel
[16:32:09] <Error_e^ipi> and then there's the bunch that are hoping that GPL solaris would = linux gets dtrace & zfs & all the other cool features
[16:32:26] <Error_e^ipi> they just want gpl solaris so they can steal from it
[16:32:35] <quants> Error_e^ipi: nope GPLv2 is incompatable with the GPLv3
[16:32:39] <tsoome> .oO GPL zealots:P
[16:33:04] <quants> Error_e^ipi: Linus himself said that no code shareing will be possible
[16:33:05] <Error_e^ipi> because linux is like communism... doesn't create anything, just steals innovation from productive kernels/countries
[16:33:10] <bougie> hello :p
[16:33:17] <Error_e^ipi> yes, i know they're incompatible
[16:33:26] <AbeFroman> hi
[16:33:28] <quants> Error_e^ipi: now that is bull shit
[16:33:29] <Error_e^ipi> which makes it even funnier
[16:34:02] <Error_e^ipi> "FUD", "bullshit"... these words are not arguments
[16:34:03] <quants> Error_e^ipi: now it's time for you to be quiet, you admited your claims are baseless
[16:34:24] <Error_e^ipi> no, i said this is why GPL zealots want it... *their* claims are baseless
[16:34:40] <quants> Error_e^ipi: this will only serve to hurt your beloved community not help it
[16:34:59] <Error_e^ipi> which, gpl?
[16:35:10] <quants> Error_e^ipi: all "GPL zealots" are better informed than you seem
[16:35:30] <quants> Error_e^ipi: solaris community
[16:35:30] <tsoome> anyone knows if solaris-crypto-req at sun dot com is functional now?
[16:35:40] <Error_e^ipi> see, all these ad hominems without a single rational argument does not serve in your favour
[16:36:24] *** UnixTitan has quit IRC
[16:36:28] <quants> Error_e^ipi: I made rational arguments, you have made nothing but libel, and assumptions
[16:37:05] <AbeFroman> you have made no argument.  an argumen would have been: X is an innovation that comes from GPL
[16:37:06] <Stric> remember that 87% of all statistics is just made up
[16:37:17] *** UnixTitan has joined #opensolaris
[16:37:27] <AbeFroman> replace X with a given innovation.  i'm in no position to think one up
[16:37:38] <quants> AbeFroman: I have made plenty, just not the one's you want to see
[16:37:54] <tsoome> quants like?
[16:37:59] <AbeFroman> i want to "see" the irc backlog.  /me presses page up
[16:38:32] <quants> 06:51 < Error_e^ipi> and then there's the bunch that are hoping that GPL solaris would = linux gets
[16:38:35] <quants>                      dtrace & zfs & all the other cool features
[16:38:38] <quants> 06:51 < Error_e^ipi> they just want gpl solaris so they can steal from it
[16:38:40] <quants> 06:51 < quants> Error_e^ipi: nope GPLv2 is incompatable with the GPLv3
[16:39:13] <AbeFroman> oh, different discussion.  i thought you were arguing against his "gpl==communism in the metaphorical sense" statement
[16:39:14] <Error_e^ipi> notice how i said they "want" to steal from it... as in, the people calling for gpl solaris
[16:39:21] <quants> 06:52 < Error_e^ipi> yes, i know they're incompatible
[16:39:28] <Error_e^ipi> not what can actually be the case
[16:39:31] <quants> 06:52 < Error_e^ipi> which makes it even funnier
[16:39:38] <quants> 06:53 < quants> Error_e^ipi: now it's time for you to be quiet, you admited your claims are baseless
[16:39:46] <Error_e^ipi> if the people calling for it realized they couldn't steal from it, they'd want gpl2 solaris or they'd shut up
[16:40:39] <Error_e^ipi> regardless, I'm relatively certain that if the CAB calls a vote on it where contirbutors are the voters, it'll fail
[16:40:49] <Error_e^ipi> too many people seem opposed to it
[16:41:15] <quants> Error_e^ipi: here is a news flash for you, most people who like the goals of the FSF are in love with the idea of innovation not dying when a .com does
[16:41:16] <Error_e^ipi> it is, however, mostly sun's code... if they want to scuttle solaris with viral licenses, that's their call
[16:41:39] <tsoome> btw sill waiting for some good innovation sample.....
[16:42:22] <quants> tsoome: sorry tsoome I never picked up that arguemnt
[16:42:35] <jteo> what a waste of bw. -sigh-
[16:43:02] *** alobbs has quit IRC
[16:43:13] <quants> Error_e^ipi: no part of dual licensing scuttles opensolaris
[16:43:14] <tsoome> how true;)
[16:44:11] <Stric> this might not be politically correct, but.. http://www.clint.ca/argue/argue.jpg
[16:44:41] * jbk doesn;t even have to load the url to know what that pic is :)
[16:44:45] <Error_e^ipi> quants: it would make it so nobody but sun could add code... if you write GPL-compatible code, can't go in, not cddl compatible. if you write cddl code, can't go in... not gpl compatible
[16:44:46] <AbeFroman> heh
[16:45:05] <Stric> jbk: what? you've seen it before? :)
[16:45:10] <quants> lol
[16:45:17] <Error_e^ipi> unless sun was the owner, or the author dual licensed & didn't use anyone's code but their own, no contribution allowed
[16:45:24] <jbk> chances are, yes
[16:45:33] <Error_e^ipi> sounds like a pretty good way to scuttle a project to me
[16:45:44] <Error_e^ipi> unless someone were to fork one branch or another
[16:45:46] <jbk> i have some interesting irc aquantiances :)
[16:46:39] <quants> Error_e^ipi: you are too much Error_e^ipi
[16:46:57] <jbk> and some of them have a habit of collecting amusing/offensive pictures
[16:47:10] <quants> Error_e^ipi: when you wake up from the Matrix, and get flushed let me know
[16:47:29] * Error_e^ipi rolls eyes
[16:47:47] <Stric> jbk: like half the "irc population" ;)
[16:47:48] <Error_e^ipi> okay, obviously you don't want to bring forward a rational argument... fuck it
[16:47:55] <AbeFroman> the problem with the matrix is that they made 2 more of them
[16:48:04] <quants> Error_e^ipi: you mean that was serious?
[16:48:16] <quants> AbeFroman: indeed
[16:48:43] <Stric> time to multiply the matrices..
[16:48:58] *** alobbs has joined #opensolaris
[16:49:06] <AbeFroman> matrix: eigenvalues
[16:49:10] <AbeFroman> coming to a theater this summer
[16:49:14] <Error_e^ipi> heh
[16:49:31] *** mega_ has joined #opensolaris
[16:50:01] *** mega has quit IRC
[16:51:03] <Error_e^ipi> What is the matrix? ...det(xI - A) = 0
[16:51:28] *** Darwin_ has joined #opensolaris
[16:52:04] *** Darwin has quit IRC
[16:52:43] *** kloczek has quit IRC
[16:52:50] *** alanc_away is now known as alanc
[16:54:25] *** kloczek has joined #opensolaris
[16:54:28] *** kloczek has quit IRC
[16:57:27] *** kloczek has joined #opensolaris
[17:01:51] *** alanc has quit IRC
[17:02:39] *** alanc has joined #opensolaris
[17:03:37] <quants> cmihai: you around?
[17:04:10] <cmihai> Yeah
[17:04:24] <quants> can I ask some more questions?
[17:06:31] <quants> the last time I used "smc" to setup RBAC, I swapped my hdd out then reinstalled it
[17:07:02] <quants> this time since you don't use smc, can you explain how it was done with vi?
[17:07:21] <tsoome> how about read docs.sun.com ?
[17:07:25] *** dme_ has joined #opensolaris
[17:07:26] <cmihai> quants: there is a VERY good RBAC guide on docs.sun.com
[17:07:31] <quants> k
[17:08:03] <quants> that is where I learned about smc the first time
[17:09:25] <nachox> the security guide for opensolaris explain both ways
[17:10:03] <quants> security services?
[17:10:24] <quants> ah ha I think I found it
[17:11:12] <Error_e^ipi> people actually use smc?
[17:11:15] <Error_e^ipi> hmm...
[17:11:34] <quants> Error_e^ipi: I'm a newb
[17:11:42] *** LordKing has quit IRC
[17:11:44] <Error_e^ipi> fair enough
[17:11:52] <Error_e^ipi> I just always found it to be more trouble than it's worth
[17:12:11] <quants> if I can learn a better way I will
[17:12:14] <tsoome> rbac setup for beginners is quite ok with smc
[17:13:11] <quants> also is there any way to mount XFS volumes under sol?
[17:13:20] <Error_e^ipi> you could port the driver over
[17:13:37] <quants> that would be a huge port
[17:13:38] <Error_e^ipi> steleman wanted me to jump on that project but I don't have an xfs volume to play with
[17:14:02] <Error_e^ipi> not really apparantly...
[17:14:17] <Error_e^ipi> IRIX's vfs layer is pretty close to the one we use
[17:14:20] <quants> I wanted to replace Linux on my big server, but my long term backups are on XFS
[17:15:30] <Error_e^ipi> talk to steleman... he's got a read-only driver kicking around somewhere
[17:15:46] <Error_e^ipi> should be sufficient to migrate to U/Z fs
[17:15:56] *** axxl has quit IRC
[17:16:02] *** Theoden-Nexenta has joined #opensolaris
[17:16:45] <nachox> a read only xfs driver for solaris? that's cool
[17:16:47] <quants> Error_e^ipi: I trust XFS, and its journal
[17:17:00] <quants> I have no plans to migrate
[17:17:17] <Error_e^ipi> *shrug*
[17:17:48] *** dme__ has joined #opensolaris
[17:17:50] <nachox> quants: if you have a backup server just leave that one using linux and xfs and share whatever dirs you need through nfs :)
[17:17:55] <quants> Error_e^ipi: thanks for the heads up tho
[17:18:43] <quants> nachox: it was my best candidate for a full on use test with sol, and vm tech
[17:19:28] *** dme has quit IRC
[17:19:35] <tsoome> .oO long term backups on xfs with driver just being developed.....
[17:20:03] <tsoome> rm command would be less painful;)
[17:20:07] <Error_e^ipi> yeah, i don't get it either, but *shrug* not my data
[17:20:15] <quants> tsoome: yeah that's what I thought
[17:20:24] <Error_e^ipi> my experiences with XFS is it's a good way to lose things
[17:20:32] <quants> really?
[17:20:43] <quants> I've never lost anything
[17:20:46] <Error_e^ipi> yeah, it doesn't deal well with interrupted writes
[17:20:58] *** mega_ has quit IRC
[17:21:06] <quants> ext3 is junk, reiser4 is nasty
[17:21:12] *** Fish- has joined #opensolaris
[17:21:17] <Error_e^ipi> so unless you've got some good electricity backup, you're taking a risk
[17:21:51] <quants> Error_e^ipi: what are your options?
[17:22:12] <Error_e^ipi> aside from ZFS you mean?
[17:22:41] <quants> Error_e^ipi: why do you use it? features you think are ideal?
[17:22:58] <Error_e^ipi> data checksumming & autocorrection
[17:22:59] <quants> I can explain exactly what I like abotu XFS
[17:23:19] <Error_e^ipi> umm, copy on write is a good thing to have too
[17:23:36] <Error_e^ipi> keeps you from half-writing over data
[17:24:22] <quants> I keep huge images of client data
[17:24:30] *** solarider has joined #opensolaris
[17:24:39] <quants> large file support? speed?
[17:24:50] <Error_e^ipi> built in compression is cool too
[17:25:16] <solarider> hi, I have a questions for snmp on solaris 10
[17:25:25] <Error_e^ipi> yeah, it's got large file support... it's also *very* zippy
[17:25:32] <Error_e^ipi> especially with compression turned on
[17:25:46] <Error_e^ipi> since I/O is the bottleneck in that equation
[17:26:04] <quants> Error_e^ipi: what if my fiels are already agressivly conpressed?
[17:26:19] <jbk> compression is set per filesystem
[17:26:20] *** onbot` has quit IRC
[17:26:23] *** onbot has joined #opensolaris
[17:26:26] <jbk> so you can leave it off
[17:26:41] *** raph_ael has quit IRC
[17:27:06] <jbk> it also has a threshold where if it won't compress by at least a certain amount, it won't bother, regardless of the fs setting
[17:27:45] <Error_e^ipi> here, have  a benchmark
[17:27:52] <Error_e^ipi> http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-perform/2005/11/18/0000.html
[17:28:01] *** linescanner has joined #opensolaris
[17:28:47] <Error_e^ipi> and a description
[17:28:52] <Error_e^ipi> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs/whatis/
[17:29:46] <Error_e^ipi> zfs is really cool
[17:29:49] *** dme_ has quit IRC
[17:29:53] <quants> I think I'll run a test to see how I like it
[17:29:55] <steleman> i dunno if an XFS driver for Solaris makes sense now, given ZFS
[17:29:56] <Error_e^ipi> .... for nerdy values of "cool" anyways
[17:30:15] <steleman> what does XFS do that ZFS doesnt
[17:30:24] <Error_e^ipi> steleman: aside from lose data?
[17:30:30] <quants> fast recovery
[17:30:52] <steleman> Solaris ufs is journaled now
[17:30:55] <steleman> since S9
[17:31:09] <quants> jfs is too, but it's not fast
[17:31:10] <tsoome> ufs is journaled since S7
[17:31:23] <nachox> ufs has logging on since s9
[17:31:32] <steleman> oh my bad
[17:31:34] <quants> bbl
[17:32:03] <tsoome> S7 was from.... mmm 97?
[17:32:35] <alanc> 98 I think
[17:32:38] <tsoome> fast recovery of what?
[17:32:50] <steleman> for some reason i have very foggy memories of S7
[17:32:56] <alanc> since I'm vaguely remembering the S7 codename/bugtraq code was S998
[17:33:12] <steleman> somehow i think my employers jumped from 2.6 to 8 and skipped S7
[17:33:19] <alanc> back when they used expected release dates for those, before they gave up because they never matched real release dates
[17:33:54] *** mercykiller has quit IRC
[17:34:38] <alanc> hmm, looks like no one has updated http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/solaris/versions/ since I stopped
[17:35:01] <rydis> Can I build opensolaris from 10u3, or do I really need SX(CR?)?
[17:35:12] <alanc> I suppose if I got bored I could put it into the genunix wiki
[17:35:13] <cmihai> You really need SXCR
[17:35:24] <rydis> OK. Thanks.
[17:35:29] <cmihai> But do you really want to build ON?
[17:35:51] <rydis> I'm not sure.
[17:35:56] <cmihai> Yes, I figured.
[17:36:37] <cmihai> If you just want to play with bleeding edge Solaris (Express) features you can just follow SXCR via LiveUpgrades
[17:36:54] <cmihai> You get a lot more then just building ON's anyway.
[17:37:11] <cmihai> And if you're really bored, build ON's on top of that.
[17:37:12] <rydis> The thing is mostly that I have crappy bandwidth home.
[17:37:17] <cmihai> Ah.
[17:37:35] <cmihai> Well, download the ISO at work
[17:37:47] <tsoome> nice bug from df:) jes:/export/tmp         63G  8192E        66G 14120158601199%
[17:37:51] *** Fish has quit IRC
[17:37:55] <cmihai> I'm sure you can afford to download like 3G every month or so
[17:37:56] <asyd> ouaaa
[17:38:01] <rydis> cmihai: That's probably the solution, yes.
[17:38:04] *** solarider has quit IRC
[17:38:15] <cmihai> tsoome: E as in Exabytes?
[17:38:26] <tsoome> fs cache from client was not updated:)
[17:38:33] <tsoome> seems so:)
[17:38:38] <cmihai> l33t
[17:38:49] <tsoome> now it back normal btw;)
[17:39:11] *** bunker_work has quit IRC
[17:39:18] <cmihai> Holy fucking...
[17:39:25] <cmihai> That just pissed all over my term
[17:39:34] <tsoome> :D
[17:39:44] <steleman> UTF is your friend
[17:39:49] <cmihai> No it's not.
[17:40:04] <cmihai> I'm sure it would look even worse if I could understand it.
[17:40:26] *** bengtf has quit IRC
[17:40:51] <tsoome> someone from sun.com should try to snoop smb traffic from gnome-terminal and *fix the damn thing*
[17:41:19] <cmihai> The what now?
[17:41:20] <nachox> smb traffic from the gnome terminal?
[17:42:03] * steleman is very confused
[17:42:16] <tsoome> I have found snoop output of SMB sessions in gnome term are the best way to make your term unreadable:)
[17:42:58] <tsoome> s/are/is/
[17:43:14] <jbk> have you tried typing echo ctrl-v esc [n in the term?
[17:43:19] * nachox wonders what will happen to all the good code that surely is available in irix when it is phased out
[17:43:20] <jbk> or maybe it's just esc-n
[17:43:27] <quants> XFS does fast recovery on a crash
[17:43:50] <cap_> so does any other journaled fs
[17:43:53] <alanc> send mail to desktop-discuss or file a bug on bugs.opensolaris.org then - with Gman out for linux.conf.au there's not many people here who can do much about it
[17:43:54] <tsoome> terminal->reset menu will do the trick as well
[17:43:55] <jbk> zfs doesn't have to do any recovery
[17:44:04] <quants> jbk: really?
[17:44:09] <cmihai> Since it doesn't keep a journal.
[17:44:14] <cmihai> No journal, no overhead, no fsck.
[17:44:15] <jbk> it's always consistent on disk
[17:44:18] <quants> ah
[17:44:35] <cmihai> Fuck, you can even dd if=/dev/urandom like 2 GB from your disk
[17:44:36] <jbk> and since it's copy on write, it never removes old data until the new data is actually on disk
[17:44:45] <cmihai> And the rest of your data will be there, and everything will work just fine.
[17:44:51] *** comay has joined #opensolaris
[17:45:02] <quants> that is a nice feature
[17:45:18] <cmihai> Sure as hell is.
[17:45:47] <cmihai> Still waiting for encryption, installing solaris on root ZFS and dynamic shrinking / growing of RAID-5 disks, but that's bound to come soon
[17:45:48] <jbk> go read the pdf in the zfs community -- it really does a good job explaining most of the features of zfs
[17:46:18] <jbk> i need the ability to remove a top level ldev + zfs boot
[17:46:40] <quants> jbk: most people won't waste the time if there isn't some little feature they want
[17:47:21] <quants> JFS for example is designed to add to uptime
[17:47:24] <tsoome> quants most people keep talking about how good their xfs is;)
[17:47:38] <cap_> quants, how zfs works with zones is a nice feature to many people
[17:47:39] <quants> ?
[17:47:58] <quants> cap_: I'm still learnign a lot
[17:48:57] <quants> I use XFS b/c I lost 60GB of client data when I moved last time
[17:49:10] <cap_> any zfs/storage guru that knows wether zfs consistency depends on devices honoring FUA?
[17:49:30] *** raph_ael has joined #opensolaris
[17:50:57] <jamesd> cap_, nope... the checksum is external.. just use mirror or raidz* and your data is safe
[17:51:40] <onbot> commit by Jesus Pasallo:  5096346 If system is halted, a reset must be given to boot off a different device
[17:52:06] <jbk> 0:0>Full Memory Test....-
[17:52:09] <jbk> uugh :(
[17:52:17] * jbk wonders how many hours he should wait :)
[17:53:54] <quants> btw I've been b*tching about the stability of one of my servers w/ the other admins, we just got a "thank you" letter saying how happy the users are w/ our stability & uptime
[17:54:17] <cap_> jamesd, I think you misunderstood (or maybe not, heh). FUA, Forced Unit Access, request a controller to put the stuff onto the platter, write through. Many modern raidcontroller implement what they called "Ignore FUA" since windoze abuses this and performance sucks...
[17:54:20] <quants> the owner passed it on this morning
[17:54:44] <tsoome> quants: nice:)
[17:55:39] <quants> I thought so too
[17:55:48] <jamesd> cap but zfs checksums all data, so if the checksum doesn't match zfs tries and repairs the data so it would have to effect all drives for it not to work.
[17:55:53] <quants> makes me feel like a nazi
[17:56:23] <quants> repair?
[17:56:53] <jamesd> cap_, of course  zfs does better if there is no raid controller,  ZFS loves jbods with lots of cheap disks.
[17:56:53] <quants> jamesd: it repairs?
[17:57:12] <jbk> if redundancy exists in some form (mirroring, raid)
[17:57:22] <jamesd> quants, with raidz or mirror it repairs bad data..
[17:57:23] <jbk> it will know aobut it and utilize it to recreate the block
[17:57:31] *** mercykiller has joined #opensolaris
[17:58:01] <quants> is jbod like linear?
[17:59:08] <quants> this is a huge learning curve, so much new stuff to learn about
[17:59:38] <quants> sol is nothing like old unix
[18:00:33] * nachox laughed quite hard when he saw the "new" features in the sco offering today
[18:00:34] <jamesd> quants, jbod is "just a bunch of disks"    that  zfs  stripes data acrross either in   raid 0 ( no redundancy),  raid 1 ( mirror 1+0),  raidz (like raid5), raidz2 ( like raid6)
[18:01:01] * cap_ wants raidz2 =)
[18:01:43] <jamesd> cap_, then be prepared to have 2 extra drives for parity, thus at least 5 drives... 3 data, 2 parity.
[18:01:54] *** alfism_ has joined #opensolaris
[18:02:04] <cap_> jamesd, I know, I use raid6 now on our linux boxes
[18:02:30] <cap_> jamesd, I use 10x500G x4 per box (+ 2 spares) for a total of 42 drives
[18:02:37] <jamesd> raidz2 is great for enterprise boxesx, but at home the thought of buying 2 extra disks for redundancy  feels expensive.
[18:02:37] <cap_> well worth it
[18:02:39] <quants> is that softraid then?
[18:03:07] <jamesd> zfs uses softraid, that performs better than hardware raid in lots of workloads.
[18:03:20] <quants> ah, I'm getting this now
[18:03:34] <quants> I hate mdadm on linux
[18:03:35] <cap_> jamesd, if you (like me) have a few hundred drives you hit a rebuild quite often and every rebuild you sit there praying "please don't find any new bad blocks, pleeease"
[18:03:54] <quants> lol cap_
[18:04:00] <cap_> I quite serious
[18:04:40] <jamesd> i'm lucky i only have about 20 drives, and one drive has had bad blocks in the last couple years... so its sitting on a shelf in case i need any of that data.
[18:05:21] <quants> jamesd: why not migrate the data, and throw it away?
[18:05:53] <quants> I've had two drive fail last month
[18:06:05] <cap_> badblocks come in three flavours, 1) block found, but data recovered and spare mapped in 2) block found, data unrecoverable and spare mapped in 3) block found, no spares left to map in
[18:06:08] <jamesd> because its 80GB and most of it is backed up,  and is other places, but you never know...  and i'm broke
[18:06:14] <quants> it shakes my up every time
[18:06:21] <cap_> after 1 and 2 you still see a drive with no badblocks...
[18:06:37] <cmihai> jamesd: can't you get Sun to send you a X4500 :)
[18:06:46] *** sartek has joined #opensolaris
[18:07:19] <jamesd> cmihai, only in my dreams...  feel free to mention that i need one, hell i would be happy with a u80 with  6x500 GB drives and 2x 160GB drives.
[18:07:21] <cap_> jamesd, would you like a 14x180G raid box (with U160 on the back) and >10 ok drives?
[18:07:30] *** deather_ has joined #opensolaris
[18:07:33] <jamesd> yes
[18:07:50] <jamesd> er  u80==u40
[18:07:53] <quants> scsi is teh sexy
[18:08:08] <cmihai> jamesd: those come pretty cheap :)
[18:08:09] <cap_> jamesd, I might have one or two of those, I'll look into it
[18:08:35] *** mazon is now known as Mazon
[18:08:37] <cap_> jamesd, obviously you'd have to arrange the shipping...
[18:08:56] <jamesd> cap_, your not near milwaukee are you?
[18:08:56] <CosmicDJ> hm... would it make any sense to run things like samba/nis+nfs/dns/apache inside a zone or is this overkill?
[18:09:11] <cmihai> CosmicDJ: run them in different zones ;)
[18:09:22] <CosmicDJ> cmihai: yes, sure
[18:09:24] <quants> cap_: ouch
[18:09:27] <cmihai> That's why you have zones... isolate everything :)
[18:09:48] <quants> cap_: is that smart use of resources?
[18:09:50] <CosmicDJ> cmihai: so you'd advise doing it?
[18:09:55] <jamesd> CosmicDJ, i would put dns and apache in a zone, the rest in global zone beause your won't let those near the dmz or let the firewall touch them.
[18:10:00] <quants> cmihai: sorry cap_
[18:10:35] <tsoome> damit, my UE450 will crash loading snv_54 and reset it coming too fast to get data recorded....
[18:10:46] <tsoome> seems I have to hook serial link....
[18:10:46] <CosmicDJ> jamesd: what about mail?
[18:10:49] <cmihai> Well, enough of that. Time to head home. bye
[18:11:05] <jamesd> tsoome, serial console, and verbose kernel booting
[18:11:14] <quants> cmihai: bye, and thanks
[18:11:15] <tsoome> yeah
[18:11:26] <Theoden-Nexenta> http://205.158.108.67/stuff/ROFL.jpg
[18:11:30] <jamesd> CosmicDJ, yes mail gets its own zone, and its own zfs filesystem with a seperate quota.
[18:11:41] <tsoome> I have to find a cable for that....
[18:12:03] <jamesd> Theoden-Nexenta, is that because he just ate a pengiun
[18:12:10] <quants> making serial cables is easy
[18:12:16] <tsoome> I know
[18:12:36] <cap_> jamesd, nope, .se
[18:12:45] <cap_> quants, is what smart use of resources?
[18:12:52] <tsoome> we should have some in our service team, but it's too late today to visit them...:(
[18:13:03] <jamesd> cap_, sorry shipping would be more than sata drives that do the same job...
[18:13:08] <cap_> probably
[18:13:35] <cap_> if you're ever over on vacation ;-)
[18:13:39] <quants> cap_: no that was autocomplete for cmihai
[18:13:44] <cap_> ah
[18:14:25] <tsoome> damit, I had the idea I will able to play with zfs on some 18 hdd's today:(
[18:15:32] <Theoden-Nexenta> jamesd: I hope so.  :-D
[18:15:33] <quants> sol mascott should be a seal sunning himself
[18:15:55] *** mercykiller has quit IRC
[18:16:04] <jamesd> tsoome, on older scsi boxes with lots of disks.. turns out zfs is limited by the bandwidth of the scsi channels.
[18:16:15] <quants> w/ a symbol on his stomach
[18:16:33] <tsoome> bandwith is not important, features are. iscsi export etc....
[18:16:42] <quants> scsi channels are limiting?
[18:16:55] <tsoome> so far I have had only  single hdd to play with...
[18:17:08] <tsoome> quants: sure
[18:17:17] * quants whaa
[18:17:20] <tsoome> it's old box
[18:17:25] <quants> oh
[18:17:26] <jamesd> quants, when you only have 2x 20MB/s scsi and 10 drives.. they are totally limiting...
[18:17:29] *** mercykiller has joined #opensolaris
[18:17:34] <sickness> i'm back
[18:17:41] <quants> oh I was thinking U320
[18:17:52] <quants> ic now
[18:17:55] <jamesd> damm.. time to call the doctor, the sickness is back with a vengence...
[18:18:03] <tsoome> in 450 there are 5 scsi channels with 4 drives connected - total 20
[18:18:43] <jamesd> and  9GB 10k rpm drives are good for about 13MB/s  each.. so the channels are the limiting factor
[18:19:15] <tsoome> 18 drives are 2G' only;)
[18:19:32] <jamesd> oh  paper weights to be.. :-)
[18:19:38] <tsoome> true:D
[18:19:52] <tsoome> but good enough to play with
[18:19:59] <jamesd> yeap
[18:20:09] <tsoome> not so good for pr0n server, though;)
[18:21:39] *** polk__ has quit IRC
[18:21:48] *** tsoome has quit IRC
[18:21:48] *** linma has quit IRC
[18:22:23] *** linma has joined #opensolaris
[18:22:49] *** polk__ has joined #opensolaris
[18:23:02] *** Darwin_ is now known as Darwin
[18:23:50] <postwait> sigh..
[18:23:55] <quants> this is so sweet: http://www.servercase.com/miva/miva?/Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SC&Product_Code=GHK-425&Category_Code=SATA
[18:23:56] <postwait> box kernel panicked.
[18:23:57] *** deather has quit IRC
[18:24:03] *** jamesd has left #opensolaris
[18:24:12] <postwait> on boot it kernel panics performing the zpool import
[18:24:22] <Stric> jamesd: I'm hitting limits way before that on a e250 (2x400) with 10 drives doing 9.3MB/s each.. but for instance a 9 disk zfs stripe is doing 11MB/s write and 33MB/s read.. half of them on an u160 card, half internally (40MB/s I think)..
[18:24:27] <quants> imagine all the space you could cram into a case with those
[18:24:32] <Stric> grmbl
[18:25:19] *** jamesd has joined #opensolaris
[18:25:19] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jamesd
[18:25:34] <jamesd> nice disk box... too bad the 2.5" drives are so costly still
[18:25:42] <Stric> jamesd: I'm hitting limits way before that on a e250 (2x400) with 10 drives doing 9.3MB/s each.. but for instance a 9 disk zfs stripe is doing 11MB/s write and 33MB/s read.. half of them on an u160 card, half internally (40MB/s I think)..
[18:25:59] <Stric> with a dd-read from all disks at the same time, I get 70MB/s
[18:26:03] *** Cyrille has quit IRC
[18:26:27] <cap_> quants, 2.5" sas isn't terribly nice performance wise and I don't like the look of that one lonely fan
[18:26:30] <Stric> cpu largly idle too
[18:26:41] <cap_> quants, sorry, meant 2.5" sata
[18:26:42] <jamesd> Stric, true.. the 400mhz cpus can't keep up with  u160 scsi..
[18:26:44] <Stric> cap_: ehm. what about savvio 15k?
[18:26:59] <cap_> Stric, ...typo, se above :)
[18:27:26] <Stric> jamesd: 2x400MHz should handle more than 11MB/s..
[18:27:33] <quants> cap_: I think it does do sas?
[18:28:00] <cap_> there was a model for it *notices*
[18:28:11] <quants> 7200rpm
[18:28:18] <jamesd> Stric, its checksum + raidz parity compute... that takes it toll...  my 2x 300mhz is very limited by 20MB/s scsi on raidz...
[18:28:21] *** Snake007uk has quit IRC
[18:28:29] <quants> I think the biggest would be 100GB
[18:28:29] <cap_> either way, a 4x connector would be alot nicer than those 4 unreliable sata/sas ones
[18:28:38] <Stric> jamesd: no parity.. just a stripe
[18:28:55] <Stric> jamesd: and I tried turning off checksum, no difference
[18:29:25] <jamesd> hmm  is there something wrong with the u160 driver... it should do better than that...
[18:30:05] <quants> is this a good storage case?: http://www.servercase.com/miva/miva?/Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SC&Product_Code=GHR-390&Category_Code=RM+Disk+Array
[18:30:11] *** MattAFC has quit IRC
[18:30:12] <Stric> it's in a long bonnie++ run now, but I'll try with only internal drives too..
[18:31:06] <jamesd> quants, seems very expensive and could use a lot more fans to keep all those drives cool...
[18:31:58] <quants> hmm
[18:32:02] <jamesd> they should put a pannel of fans 19" across in just behind the drives... and slits between the drive to all air to flow from font to back.
[18:32:13] <quants> k
[18:33:51] <jamesd> sun really needs to sell  x4500 barebones no drives, and just cpus and ram... drool  48TB of raw storage in 4RU.
[18:34:19] <Stric> or at least be able to buy it with less than 48 drives
[18:34:20] *** lasseoe has quit IRC
[18:34:21] *** lasseoe has joined #opensolaris
[18:35:00] <quants> I just wanted a drives only case
[18:35:13] <quants> seems like they all have just two fans
[18:37:05] <jamesd> if i'm going to cram 16 drives in a case, i would want more than 2 fans.. especially if they are at the read of the case.
[18:37:24] <jamesd> heat is the enemy of harddrives...
[18:38:34] *** mercykiller has quit IRC
[18:39:10] <cap_> heat variations are even worse
[18:39:58] <quants> I either need to stuff drives in limited space, or external case
[18:40:03] *** alfism_ has quit IRC
[18:40:12] <quants> right now I hot swap
[18:42:34] *** alanc is now known as alanc_away
[18:43:03] *** damienc has quit IRC
[18:46:03] *** linescanner has left #opensolaris
[18:47:36] <quants> I'm not sure I like the idea of ISPs doing anything more than pushing bits
[18:48:53] <quants> do any of you think ISPs policing their netowrks is anything more than cost?
[18:50:27] <quants> "However as a spokesman for the Internet Service Providers Association pointed out, ISPs are "mere conduits of information" that can not be held liable for offences committed by customers. "ISPs cannot inspect every packet of data transmitted over their networks," he said."
[18:57:27] *** dunc has joined #opensolaris
[18:57:31] *** mercykiller has joined #opensolaris
[18:58:10] *** axxl has joined #opensolaris
[18:59:40] *** ezeki3l has joined #opensolaris
[19:10:09] *** bondolo has joined #opensolaris
[19:11:13] *** ezeki3l has left #opensolaris
[19:15:49] <sommerfeld> quants: not sure of the applicability to #opensolaris..  given the state of certain distributed applications (SMTP mail) they really should be proactive against abusers (spammers, etc.,)
[19:21:09] *** mercykiller has quit IRC
[19:21:32] *** LordKing has joined #opensolaris
[19:25:19] *** sniffy has quit IRC
[19:25:20] *** sniffy_ has joined #opensolaris
[19:25:21] *** logic_ has quit IRC
[19:25:42] *** nachox has quit IRC
[19:25:53] <quants> sommerfeld: do we only need to talk about sol?
[19:26:22] <quants> I don't like how my ISP blocks port 25
[19:26:48] <jamesd> quants, www.no-ip.com  they have a solution.
[19:27:34] <quants> I use off system service now, but I don't think it's their place to enact that policy
[19:27:55] <sommerfeld> quants: sure it is.  they have limited resources.
[19:28:02] *** dimas4u has joined #opensolaris
[19:28:07] <quants> it's too easy to slippry sloap to abuse
[19:28:17] <sommerfeld> given what you pay at a typical consumer ISP, they can't afford to leave it open
[19:28:22] <quants> like blocking voip
[19:28:39] <quants> my ISP offers phone service
[19:30:05] *** dimas4u has quit IRC
[19:30:14] <sommerfeld> the problem with slippery slope arguments is that different people have different views of the slope's contour and level of friction....
[19:30:37] *** mrdeviant has left #opensolaris
[19:31:23] <sommerfeld> if you want to directly send SMTP, you may need to spend more $$/month.
[19:32:26] *** slowhog has joined #opensolaris
[19:32:53] <quants> sommerfeld: you're right I got a new service
[19:33:08] <quants> on a non-spammy service
[19:33:43] <quants> my origional point is still unchanged
[19:34:06] <quants> if they can block that, they can block almost anything else
[19:34:08] <sickness> are there floppy images with solaris grub with network support enabled available somewhere? =)
[19:34:11] *** LordKing_ has joined #opensolaris
[19:36:53] *** alobbs has quit IRC
[19:37:30] *** mercykiller has joined #opensolaris
[19:37:31] <sommerfeld> that's inherent in the nature of the internet.  it's a network of networks, each operating under its own rules.
[19:37:46] <sommerfeld> if you don't like the service, you can go to a different provider.
[19:39:49] *** axisys has joined #opensolaris
[19:41:58] *** hile_ has quit IRC
[19:45:18] *** hile_ has joined #opensolaris
[19:45:56] *** paul_ has joined #opensolaris
[19:47:01] *** alanc-away is now known as alanc
[19:47:48] *** LordKing has quit IRC
[19:47:53] *** swa_mobil has quit IRC
[19:48:58] <tomww> has someone the new jumpstart profile keyword at hand to configure an x86 box to install Xorg ?
[19:50:30] *** mega has joined #opensolaris
[19:52:55] *** bunker has joined #opensolaris
[19:59:40] *** mega_ has joined #opensolaris
[20:02:44] *** javar has joined #opensolaris
[20:02:49] <javar> hi
[20:03:03] <javar> can someone help me, pls?
[20:03:23] <javar> my server does not start, show this error: warning: init(1m) exited on fatal signal 9: restarting automatically
[20:04:10] <javar> :(
[20:05:59] <PerterB> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=33017 ? (although that's quite an old bug)
[20:06:38] *** logic_ has joined #opensolaris
[20:06:56] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris
[20:08:17] <javar> i don't have the grub user
[20:10:46] *** jch_ has joined #opensolaris
[20:10:51] <jch_> Good evening. what is the best spam control for a unix server?
[20:10:54] <jch_> spamassassin?
[20:11:02] <quasi> qpsmtpd
[20:11:09] <quasi> or something
[20:11:50] <sommerfeld> i'm using spamassassin.  i've heard very good things about a package called dspam but haven't had a chance to try it yet.
[20:12:15] <jch_> I see
[20:13:38] <Auralis> http://assp.sourceforge.net/
[20:13:38] <jch_> would you suggest me to use spamassassin?
[20:13:58] <Stric> I would say a number of tools together
[20:14:13] <Stric> greylisting, spamassassin, ...
[20:14:51] *** mercykiller has quit IRC
[20:14:54] <jch_> okay :)
[20:17:04] *** mega has quit IRC
[20:18:49] <jch_> sommerfelf, you should most definately use a milter plugin no?
[20:19:00] *** alobbs has joined #opensolaris
[20:19:23] <jch_> i just found one.. http://smfs.sourceforge.net/smf-grey.html
[20:19:48] <sommerfeld> i run a small mail server just for myself.  i run spamassassin from procmail...
[20:20:17] <postwait> does upgrading from 10u2 to 10u3 auto upgrade all your zones?
[20:20:22] <postwait> or do you have to reinstall all of them?
[20:20:59] <jch_> if u addon that addon above it reallllllly cuts down on spam incredibly
[20:21:06] <jch_> your marked spam will drop
[20:21:13] <jch_> considerably
[20:21:32] *** javar has left #opensolaris
[20:23:14] <jch_> it time delays messages coming in, which spammers do not wait for and they disconnect
[20:32:13] *** merlin_ has quit IRC
[20:33:45] <jbk> the latest nevada builds include a netmeeting-type software right?
[20:34:51] <alanc> ekiga, formerly known as gnome-meeting
[20:36:28] *** maomao has joined #opensolaris
[20:37:39] *** GoodKarma has quit IRC
[20:37:41] *** mercykiller has joined #opensolaris
[20:48:01] *** tsoome1 has joined #opensolaris
[20:49:06] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris
[20:49:37] *** tsoome has quit IRC
[20:50:15] *** inhonho has joined #opensolaris
[20:50:22] *** tsoome1 is now known as tsoome
[20:52:20] *** jch_ has quit IRC
[20:54:24] *** mercykiller has quit IRC
[20:57:32] *** mercykiller has joined #opensolaris
[20:57:49] *** tsoome1 has joined #opensolaris
[20:58:02] *** BadKarma has joined #OpenSolaris
[20:58:53] *** kloczek has quit IRC
[20:59:47] *** eboutilier has joined #opensolaris
[21:00:35] *** maomao has quit IRC
[21:01:29] *** RaD|Tz has quit IRC
[21:02:01] *** merlin_ has joined #opensolaris
[21:04:37] *** axxl has quit IRC
[21:06:40] *** tsoome2 has joined #opensolaris
[21:11:55] *** swa_mobil has joined #opensolaris
[21:12:10] <quants> sommerfeld: too much public infrastructure is in private hands that make dumb choices
[21:12:33] *** swa_mobil is now known as swa
[21:13:18] <sommerfeld> quants: consider that if they could ban port 25 filtering, they could also ban spam filtering services.
[21:13:34] <quants> how?
[21:14:02] <andersmo> sommerfeld: dspam is... frickin' cool, but can be a tad heavy on the database resources for it's token database. =)
[21:14:23] *** tsoome has quit IRC
[21:15:10] <sommerfeld> quants: by making them illegal.
[21:15:30] <quants> you've made some huge leaps I can't follow
[21:15:45] <sommerfeld> "they" = "government regulators"
[21:16:00] <sommerfeld> you seem to want regulation of internet service providers
[21:16:03] <quants> I said that ISPs should be basic bit pushers
[21:16:36] <sommerfeld> so they should stop blocking spam at your mailbox?
[21:16:46] <quants> no the article I was reading when I was thinking about this wants that
[21:16:59] <sommerfeld> even when you want them to block the spam?
[21:17:02] <quants> I don't think it makes cost sense
[21:17:18] *** LordKing_ has quit IRC
[21:17:27] <quants> my mail provider does that, not my ISP
[21:17:51] *** mercykiller has quit IRC
[21:18:10] <quants> I bought a seperate service
[21:18:49] <quants> my ISP's mail is so spammy it's sad they even pretend to block port 25
[21:20:32] <quants> we should have ISP+hosting services, and it would open a whole new revinue stream for the market
[21:20:52] <quants> the ISPs should only focus on pushing bits
[21:21:19] *** tsoome1 has quit IRC
[21:21:26] *** tsoome2 is now known as tsoome
[21:21:33] <quants> trying to do it all only adds cost, not value
[21:24:06] *** abackos has joined #opensolaris
[21:27:16] *** bengtf_ has joined #opensolaris
[21:27:52] <sommerfeld> there are bit-pushing-only services out there, but they're not targetted at home users because home users typically want more..
[21:27:55] *** inhonho has quit IRC
[21:28:55] *** Fish has joined #opensolaris
[21:30:18] *** bengtf_ has left #opensolaris
[21:30:33] *** Gman has joined #opensolaris
[21:30:51] <richlowe> hey Glynn.
[21:31:03] <Gman> g'day
[21:32:58] <richlowe> sommerfeld, quants: While many consumer ISPs deal with mail badly, many consumers deal with mail *far* worse.
[21:33:00] *** bengtf2 has quit IRC
[21:34:58] <quants> richlowe: no contest
[21:35:49] <quants> btw the reason I like to toss ideas into here is I consider you all quite intelligent
[21:36:43] *** mega_ has quit IRC
[21:37:31] *** swa is now known as zdawg
[21:38:10] *** zdawg is now known as swa
[21:41:08] *** hile_ has quit IRC
[21:42:11] *** hile_ has joined #opensolaris
[21:45:01] *** Fish- has quit IRC
[21:45:56] *** jesse-jads has joined #opensolaris
[21:51:01] *** Tpenta has joined #opensolaris
[21:52:29] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Tpenta
[21:56:14] <postwait> if you are an ISP, you don't want to be running spamassassin
[21:56:17] <postwait> or dspam
[21:56:23] <postwait> or anything that expensive.
[21:57:00] <sommerfeld> richlowe: indeed
[21:57:02] <postwait> while the products are free, you'll pay more in horsepower, electricity and cooling to run them
[21:57:17] <postwait> than you would buying a commercial solution that doesn't require a nuclear reactor to operate
[21:57:43] *** mercykiller has joined #opensolaris
[22:04:57] *** _estibi__ has joined #opensolaris
[22:05:27] *** estibi_ has joined #opensolaris
[22:12:38] *** _estibi_ has quit IRC
[22:12:55] *** ha1331 has quit IRC
[22:13:56] *** estibi has quit IRC
[22:15:52] *** Gman has quit IRC
[22:16:36] *** mercykiller has quit IRC
[22:17:37] *** mercykiller has joined #opensolaris
[22:20:57] *** oxygene has quit IRC
[22:22:00] *** nrubsig has joined #opensolaris
[22:22:01] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig
[22:22:07] <nrubsig> !seen kupfer
[22:22:13] <Drone> kupfer (kupfer!i=kupfer@nat/sun/x-307d735aa42be95d) was last seen in #opensolaris on Thu 11 Jan 2007 00:16 GMT, saying 'later, folks.'.
[22:22:30] <nrubsig> !summon kupfer
[22:23:04] * nrubsig tries the ritual of Askente backwards to summon him...
[22:24:38] <nrubsig> Does anyone know whether it is possible to get something like an "onbot"-like annoucement deamon which posts the titles of new bugs in the triage queue ?
[22:25:15] <richlowe> we have one, they call it 'alanc'. ;)
[22:25:33] <alanc> heh
[22:25:48] <nrubsig> alanc: Hi! :-)
[22:25:52] <richlowe> alanc: hey, you tend to beat the real notification from Linda by at least a day, sometimes many more.
[22:26:01] <alanc> I've wondered about having osol-triage-bot and arc-case-filed-bot
[22:26:16] <alanc> but then the bots might talk more in this channel than we do
[22:26:19] <richlowe> I think the first is a bad idea.
[22:26:25] <richlowe> I'm working up to yell at people about the triage process.
[22:26:36] <richlowe> not that it'll help, but I'd like it to not be useful at least until after I'm done yelling ;)
[22:28:25] <nrubsig> alanc: which bug category is "in.rwhod" ?
[22:28:39] <richlowe> nrubsig: don't worry about it.
[22:28:48] <richlowe> nrubsig: or find an existing CR against it, and file it in the same place.
[22:28:52] <alanc> not sure - I'd have to check sunsolve
[22:28:55] <richlowe> but since our cats don't actually affect anything, why worry?
[22:29:08] <richlowe> (see above re: yelling about triage)
[22:29:09] <nrubsig> alanc: network/internet-utility
[22:29:18] <alanc> sounds close enough to me
[22:29:30] <alanc> whoever triages it will have to find the right place
[22:29:41] <richlowe> nrubsig: looks right to me.
[22:29:54] <alanc> bug categories on bugs filed through bugs.os.o are just a hint/suggestion to the triage team right now
[22:30:02] *** swa_wtf has joined #opensolaris
[22:30:05] <richlowe> if that's not visible via b.o.o, include a request to re-file in Description, and guess.
[22:30:10] *** swa has quit IRC
[22:30:10] <richlowe> like I said, what you choose isn't used anyway.
[22:30:15] <alanc> they end up in the form in the description, but that's it
[22:30:49] * tsoome is away - bbl - [AcidJazz - Log ON]
[22:31:10] *** _estibi_ has joined #opensolaris
[22:31:33] *** tmw has quit IRC
[22:31:49] *** estibi has joined #opensolaris
[22:35:17] *** mercykiller_ has joined #opensolaris
[22:35:57] <eboutilier> nrubsig: Hi Roland, I just sent you a couple messages re: getting the KDE project space set up.
[22:36:16] *** mercykiller has quit IRC
[22:38:02] <nrubsig> eboutilier: Ok
[22:38:08] <nrubsig> alanc: bug filed.
[22:38:32] <nrubsig> alanc: CMD query: tail -1f buglist.txt | fgrep 'bugid:'
[22:38:43] <nrubsig> s/f//g
[22:38:52] <alanc> sorry - no simple text file to tail
[22:39:11] <onbot> commit by Vikram Hegde:  6445040 add_drv/update_drv/rem_drv should use advisory record locking; 6467524 Add a check to /dev/pts code to test for realvp; 6509851 change name of PT_OWNER ioctl to OWNERPT
[22:39:32] <eboutilier> nrubsig: Regarding a mailing list. IMO it'd be best to have KDE and JDS discussion in the same place. I.e. on desktop-discuss
[22:39:41] <onbot> commit by rm160521:  6494654 zfs inherit can't handle property short names
[22:39:47] <eboutilier> ... rather than creating a separate kde-discuss
[22:39:58] <richlowe> eboutilier: I'm not sure I agree there.
[22:40:05] <richlowe> not only because of the semi-random ill feeling regarding sun and KDE
[22:40:19] <richlowe> but if the KDE project actually takes off well, there'd be a lot of KDE-specific noise on the main desktop list.
[22:40:20] <alanc> have to wait for bugs.os.o to file the bug in bugster, then for the reporting database to sync against the rw database (usually every 5 minutes), then for the reporting database to mail out all changes since the last sync, then for that mail to make it from the mail servers in Colorado to the ones in California, and then for my Thunderbird check for new messages to find it
[22:40:39] <eboutilier> richlowe: So you'd like to see desktop-discuss jds-discuss and kde-discuss?
[22:40:54] <nrubsig> eboutilier: that would swamp desktop-discuss with all the technical detailsabout getting the KDE packages running... IMO a seperate kde-discuss@ list would be nice.
[22:41:10] <alanc> I think it's down to 10-15 minutes from filing to notification in most cases now
[22:41:22] <richlowe> eboutilier: if usage levels justify it, yes, and I think they will for KDE as roland said.
[22:41:35] *** _estibi__ has quit IRC
[22:41:42] <richlowe> alanc: for your notification, sure.
[22:41:48] <nrubsig> richlowe: I hope we can avoid flamewars as we had in ksh93-integration@
[22:41:57] <nrubsig> richlowe: I no longer want such madness.
[22:42:01] <nrubsig> (if possible)
[22:42:07] <richlowe> nrubsig: I think you can, as long as everyone is aware in advance that you can't affect what Sun choose to do.
[22:42:17] <richlowe> otherwise I think you'll get stuck with them eventually.
[22:42:28] <alanc> richlowe: well, yes, that's what it takes to notify the triage-team
[22:42:36] <nrubsig> richlowe: I'll comment later on that... actually there is a compromise between both sides.
[22:42:37] <eboutilier> Hmm, well I suppose desktop-discuss sort of needs to be retired then and JDS discussions moved to a new jds-discuss...
[22:42:44] <richlowe> alanc: then you notify us, and then a day or two later, linda notifies us.
[22:42:45] *** estibi_ has quit IRC
[22:42:55] <richlowe> alanc: you're seriously beating the 'real' system out by days, when you do that stuff for us. :)
[22:43:11] <alanc> as far as I know notifying you is just Linda getting the same mail I do, and waiting for her to process it
[22:43:19] <richlowe> it is.
[22:43:26] <richlowe> but on weekends, or Sun holidays it's not done.
[22:43:34] <alanc> but since she's a PM/manager type, she's in meetings more of the day than I am, so not always as near her inbox
[22:43:36] <richlowe> I have bugs in my mailbox that went a week or more between filing and me knowing the ID.
[22:43:37] <nrubsig> eboutilier: why ? desktop-discuss@ would serve the desktop-community while the more specific lists are for specific technical issues.
[22:43:40] *** Gman has joined #opensolaris
[22:43:49] <alanc> speaking of desktop-discuss...
[22:44:08] <richlowe> nrubsig: exactly, making desktop-discuss "everyone" just leads to noise that only half the people care about at any one time, I think.
[22:44:16] *** abackos has quit IRC
[22:44:19] <Gman> i care about kde deeply
[22:44:32] <alanc> nrubsig: 6514842 in.rwhod" lacks useable configuration
[22:44:39] <nrubsig> alanc: thanks! :-)
[22:45:17] <alanc> though that may be a dup of 4296835 in.rwhod doesn't have a startup script, since startup scripts are now replaced by SMF
[22:45:46] <eboutilier> nrubsig: I suppose. Off the top of my head though I'd say 90% of the posts to desktop-discuss today are about JDS.
[22:46:21] <Gman> that's because we're using it as a project mailing list
[22:46:24] <Tpenta> did you see the one that was 10 minutes before it alanc?
[22:46:35] <Tpenta> CR 6514781 Created P4 opensolaris/triage-queue Language optional software not installed when using cc
[22:46:38] <alanc> yeah
[22:46:48] <Tpenta> The answer is "don't have /usr/ucb in your path"
[22:47:01] <alanc> that's probably a dup of the "/usr/ucb/cc MUST DIE NOW!" bug, whose id/synopsis I've forgotten
[22:47:02] * Gman would welcome more desktop related discussion, including someone working on the kde desktop pages
[22:47:12] <delewis> well /usr/ucb is useful, sometimes.
[22:47:26] <delewis> lots of print commands are in there, though, I understand they're in the process of being moved out.
[22:47:29] <alanc> they did a LSARC case to kill /usr/ucb/cc last year - not sure why it's not gone yet
[22:47:29] <eboutilier> Gman: We're trying to decide whether the KDE project should use desktop-discuss too, or spin off a separate kde-discuss
[22:47:32] <minerale> how can I change the resolution for X? I need 1440 x 900 i'm looking at /etc/X11/.xorg.conf and I don't see any resolution lines ( running opensolaris express under parallels )
[22:47:35] <Gman> eboutilier, up to them
[22:47:47] <Tpenta> we should get rid of /usr/ucb/cc
[22:47:50] <Gman> i didn't want to break jds off until there was suitable momentum on desktop-discuss
[22:48:07] <Gman> a dead mailing list doesn't do anyone good
[22:48:07] * nrubsig watches the storm outside
[22:48:13] <alanc>  /etc/X11/.xorg.conf needs to go away too - too many people think it's actually used when it's not
[22:48:34] <delewis> Tpenta, the latest Sun Studio releases create symlinks in /usr/bin to /opt/SUNWspro/bin which takes precendence over /usr/ucb in the default PATH.
[22:48:44] <eboutilier> Gman: Over-proliferation of lists doesn't either.
[22:48:45] <alanc> if you're running JDS, right click on the background and one of the options should be change resolution
[22:49:03] <alanc> more lists just means more places to get hoodie and watch spam from jive
[22:49:06] <richlowe> Gman: you guys using it as a project list is exactly the point I was making before you joined.
[22:49:33] <nrubsig> Who owns /usr/bin/tip ?
[22:49:37] <richlowe> Gman: thus, eboutilier's desire for KDE to use it that way also, just doubles up traffic where more than likely nobody actually cares about all of it.
[22:49:46] <richlowe> nrubsig: everyone!
[22:49:47] <minerale> alanc, when I try that the x server crashes
[22:49:52] <Gman> richlowe, yeah
[22:49:55] <nrubsig> richlowe: please...
[22:50:16] <Gman> when we eventually move our internal aliases outside, i'll create a jds project alias
[22:50:16] <alanc> nrubsig: most solaris commands have no owner
[22:50:29] <Gman> [yes we have them, yes we suck]
[22:50:34] <minerale> alanc: by the way I saw your boss's boss at a restaurant yesterday, odd coincidence (the bald guy)
[22:50:39] <richlowe> nrubsig: as alanc said yesterday, only a few things have specific groups of people caring for them long term, and they tend to be the larger areas.
[22:50:42] <alanc> heh
[22:50:51] <richlowe> nrubsig: (you really think the SysV tools would be in the state they are, if they had assigned keepers?)
[22:51:01] <minerale> i'm sure you'd be horrified at the casual manner I spoke to him
[22:51:19] <alanc> I speak to him casually too
[22:51:32] <alanc> he's fairly informal
[22:52:00] * Gman tries to figure out the sun family tree
[22:52:01] <minerale> alanc: when I right click and select screen resolution the default refresh rate defaults to 0
[22:52:26] <alanc> this week, my boss'es boss is Gman's boss'es boss'es boss
[22:52:40] <minerale> where is the actual line config file? my resolution is too high 1600x1200 and I need to lower it
[22:52:51] <eboutilier> OK, I'm convinced, we need a kde-discuss. Thanks.
[22:52:58] <alanc> there is no config file by default until you create one
[22:53:09] <alanc> it just probes the hardware and uses defaults
[22:53:21] <nrubsig> eboutilier: I'll email you details later today... I am currently busy with ksh93 issues.
[22:53:26] <nrubsig> and posix_spawn()
[22:53:27] <nrubsig> AGAIN
[22:53:30] <Gman> what happens to the solaris kde aliases?
[22:53:48] <nrubsig> which solaris kde aliases ?
[22:53:59] <Gman> aren't there ones on kde.org?
[22:54:00] <richlowe> the ones @kde.org, I think.
[22:54:01] <eboutilier> nrubsig: Sounds good. No hurry from my perspective.
[22:54:04] <richlowe> I thought there was one, anyway.
[22:54:07] <alanc> Xorg -configure creates a file based on the autoprobed data
[22:54:19] <nrubsig> Gman: they remain.
[22:54:22] <richlowe> and blastwave probably have a list, too.
[22:54:23] <nrubsig> Gman: please wait for the list.
[22:54:26] *** slowhog has quit IRC
[22:54:35] <nrubsig> Gman: I'll come up with a master plan.
[22:54:42] <Gman> i have no doubt :)
[22:54:43] *** slowhog has joined #opensolaris
[22:54:46] <nrubsig> Gman: I hope it will mediate between all sides.
[22:54:47] <rodrickbrown> anyone know if its possible to reread sd.conf after boot?
[22:55:02] <rodrickbrown> possibly a mdb macro ? :)
[22:55:12] <rodrickbrown> not even unload sd works
[22:58:10] <quants> omg sol doesn't ship with screen?
[22:58:11] <nrubsig> Gman: and it means we'll get the first "inception review" for a OpenSolaris project... :-)
[22:58:21] <Gman> nrubsig, what does?
[22:58:28] <alanc> quants: screen is on the companion cd
[22:58:35] <nrubsig> Gman: ?!
[22:58:43] * delewis has his on DELscreen package
[22:58:51] <Gman> inception review for what? kde?
[22:58:54] * quants looks around for a companion
[22:59:00] <nrubsig> Gman: yes
[22:59:01] <delewis> s/on/own/
[22:59:08] <nrubsig> Gman: please no complains
[22:59:12] <nrubsig> Gman: wait for the plan
[22:59:18] * Gman waits with interest
[22:59:37] <alanc> hmm, KDE ARC review would probably involve making plocher get LSARC opened up too
[22:59:48] <alanc> since LSARC normally owns desktop software
[22:59:59] <Gman> lsarc should disappear
[23:00:02] <eboutilier> quants: If you like to maintain your own builds of stuff, screen is also in the JDS spec-files-extra repository
[23:00:07] <alanc> hey!
[23:00:14] <Gman> :)
[23:00:23] <Gman> i'm doing you a favour!
[23:00:27] <quants> eboutilier: thanks great idea
[23:01:12] <alanc> though I've suggested a couple of times we should probably split LSARC and move the Solaris bits (mostly desktop) to PSARC and leave LSARC for the unbundled products (or merge those to WSARC)
[23:01:32] <nrubsig> WSARC=?
[23:01:39] * quants wished I spoke martian too
[23:01:44] <richlowe> nrubsig: Web Services, iirc.
[23:01:46] <alanc> of course, if you took desktop out of LSARC, you'ld probably take at least 1/3rd of the members too
[23:01:52] <nrubsig> Wild Satanic ArchtieCture
[23:02:06] <alanc> yes - web services - mostly reviews the Java Enterprise System server products
[23:02:18] <Gman> alanc, you'd probably do some sensible merging after that though
[23:02:59] <alanc> I'm sure John, Brian & I would follow the desktop cases to whatever ARC they go to
[23:03:18] <alanc> as well as the interns from Beijing
[23:03:44] <richlowe> alanc: where does CNS stuff go?
[23:04:00] <richlowe> SARC? a variety?
[23:04:05] <alanc> richlowe: LSARC now that SARC is gone
[23:04:17] <alanc> used to be split between SARC & LSARC
[23:04:24] <richlowe> ah, we had the discussion regarding Explorer, I wondered if that was generally true.
[23:04:32] *** linma has quit IRC
[23:04:33] <minerale> alanc: I ran -configure but the generated config file has nothing about resolution
[23:04:39] *** oxygene has joined #opensolaris
[23:04:39] * richlowe isn't entirely sure what the scope of CNS is as far as stuff like sunsolve goes
[23:04:53] *** linma has joined #opensolaris
[23:05:26] <alanc> minerale: yeah - you'ld have to add it by hand - should be able to google up a few hundred example xorg.conf files (or XF86config, which use the same syntax)
[23:05:58] <alanc> richlowe: don't know either - the stuff we saw was the bits like the Update Connection clients
[23:07:04] *** bunker has quit IRC
[23:07:27] *** tfb has joined #opensolaris
[23:09:07] <nrubsig> grump
[23:09:10] *** bougie has quit IRC
[23:09:11] <nrubsig> power hiccups
[23:09:33] *** hspaans has joined #opensolaris
[23:09:45] *** mercykiller_ has quit IRC
[23:10:45] <alanc> that should make some people happy:   Subject: 119062-03 Release Ready
[23:10:58] <nrubsig> alanc: what is that ?
[23:11:03] <alanc> that's the S10 Xorg patch for "Mozilla feeding Xorg fonts and making it fat"
[23:11:19] <nrubsig> http://www.spiegel.de/international/ - "Storm Wreaks Havoc in Northern Europe"
[23:11:20] <alanc> (i.e. Xorg font memory leak triggered by mozilla pages with lots of fonts)
[23:11:32] <sommerfeld> Better for Xorg's self esteem.
[23:11:33] <nrubsig> alanc: what is the fix ? disabe iso10646-1 fonts ?
[23:12:48] <alanc> no - free TrueType tables when you're done with them
[23:13:09] * nrubsig just adds "font.x11.rejectfontpattern" to his mozilla prefs with "fname=-.*iso10646-1.*;scalable=.*;outline_scaled=.*;xdisplay=.*;xdpy=.*;ydpy=.*;xdevice=.*" as value
[23:13:19] <nrubsig> ouch
[23:13:24] <alanc> of course it's in the third-party TrueType code in Xsun/Xorg so you'll never see the actual code fix
[23:13:24] <nrubsig> erm
[23:14:30] <nrubsig> alanc: do you enable "deferfonts" some day by default ?
[23:14:42] <alanc> I have no idea what deferfonts is
[23:15:03] <nrubsig> alanc: the thing which suspends a client until the font was loaded.
[23:15:13] <alanc> sadly I think I've become the defacto fonts guy since Jay left
[23:15:25] <nrubsig> alanc: hire me.
[23:15:28] <nrubsig> less pain for you
[23:15:29] <alanc> nrubsig: I don't know
[23:15:40] *** ka46 has joined #opensolaris
[23:15:42] <alanc> I wish I could, but we have no open positions
[23:15:51] *** triplah_ has joined #opensolaris
[23:15:51] <nrubsig> ;-(
[23:16:31] <alanc> our new manager is trying to convince upper management we need a new font guy to replace Jay, but he's just begun and don't know if he'll succeed
[23:16:50] <nrubsig> alanc: is kupfer around ?
[23:17:29] <alanc> don't see him active
[23:17:44] <nrubsig> svcadm enable network/kupfer
[23:17:59] <richlowe> I don't think kupfer's a network service.
[23:18:09] <nrubsig> okok
[23:18:14] <nrubsig> svcadm enable deamon/kupfer
[23:18:21] <nrubsig> better ? =:-)
[23:18:36] <richlowe> Sure.
[23:18:49] *** merlin_ has quit IRC
[23:18:57] <AbeFroman> network/irc:kupfer
[23:19:19] * nrubsig wonders whether he's a horned deamon or one with pink fur.
[23:19:48] <nrubsig> storm is getting worse
[23:20:03] <nrubsig> MUCH
[23:20:20] <richlowe> rain? snow? hail?
[23:20:26] <richlowe> all of the above?
[23:20:35] <nrubsig> wind
[23:20:39] <nrubsig> much wind
[23:20:41] <nrubsig> and rain
[23:20:57] <nrubsig> it feels like being at the north sea at a stormy day
[23:21:08] <richlowe> pity about the rain.
[23:21:21] *** comay has quit IRC
[23:21:30] 
[23:21:39] <nrubsig> richlowe: I would prefer snow.
[23:22:25] *** axisys has quit IRC
[23:22:38] <hspaans> nrubsig: that is on the schedule for this weekend :(
[23:23:51] <nrubsig> hspaans: why " :-( " ?
[23:23:54] <nrubsig> I like snow.
[23:24:09] <nrubsig> I grew up in Sauerland which has lots of snow.
[23:25:04] <hspaans> many people in the Netherlands seem to forget how to drive when there is some rain or snow
[23:25:22] <lasseoe> even without rain or snow they struggle :)
[23:26:09] *** comay has joined #opensolaris
[23:26:33] <minerale> alanc: where would I place the config file for it to be read when X start up ? /usr/X11/bin/X -config /xorg.conf does not seem to be reading it
[23:26:34] <hspaans> they hit the breaks for every raindrop
[23:26:35] *** bondolo has quit IRC
[23:26:58] <nrubsig> hspaans: yeah, but the sauerland has lots of high hills (or low mountains). if you don't equip your car for the winter there you can't use it at all. You'll run into problem at the first hill.
[23:27:25] <alanc> minerale: /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[23:27:42] <onbot> commit by ek110237:  6410433 'zpool status -v' would be more useful with filenames; 6504702 zdb -dddv <poolname> chokes on xattrs; 6506506 spa_history.c: LE_64(reclen) needs to be cast to uint64_t in case of 32-bit big-endian kernel
[23:27:50] <hspaans> nrubsig: I know ;-)
[23:29:05] <comay> nrubsig: as alanc mentioned, the in.rwhod CR you filed is a duplicate of an existing issue.  i'll sort it out and add you to the older one.
[23:29:20] <nrubsig> comay: erm
[23:29:30] <nrubsig> comay: please do it the reverse way.
[23:29:43] <nrubsig> comay: I'd lke to take that bug and fix it.
[23:29:50] <quants> I was digging around the SXRC dvd, and I found some new questions
[23:29:54] <alanc> does it matter what the bug id is?
[23:29:58] <comay> that's fine, you can take ownership of the older bug.
[23:30:04] <sommerfeld> nrubsig: what comay proposed to do will not prevent you from fixing the bug
[23:30:22] <sommerfeld> hspaans: it's not just the Netherlands where that happens....
[23:30:25] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: erm, yes... Ok...
[23:30:49] <quants> actually I'll wait until things calm down again
[23:30:54] *** sommerfeld has quit IRC
[23:31:08] <comay> i'll update all of the fields so you're the owner of the older bug (then you can work on finding a sponsor)
[23:32:35] <nrubsig> comay: thanks! :-)
[23:32:45] <nrubsig> comay: BTW: who owns in.talkd ?
[23:32:55] <richlowe> I don't believe nrubsig can own anything in the RE sense.
[23:33:16] <comay> nrubsig: the same group that owns in.rwhod
[23:33:17] <richlowe> (you can diddle the keywords I guess, but ...)
[23:33:42] <comay> richlowe: exactly, he'll be the owner in terms of the apporpriate "hooks" field
[23:34:39] <nrubsig> BTW: http://www.guug.de/veranstaltungen/osdevcon2007/program.html - likely the most boring talk will be done by myself.
[23:35:00] <nrubsig> comay: my idea would be to get in.talkd multibyte calable.
[23:35:01] <nrubsig> er
[23:35:02] <nrubsig> capable
[23:35:07] <richlowe> comay: tack him on the interest list, too. :)
[23:35:18] *** Netwolf has joined #opensolaris
[23:35:38] <comay> richlowe: actually, nrubsig will automatically be added when i close the duplicate :)
[23:36:22] <alanc> since someone already added him to the interest list of the one he filed 8-)
[23:36:34] * nrubsig crosses his eyes
[23:36:37] <comay> right :-)
[23:36:58] *** sommerfeld has joined #opensolaris
[23:36:58] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o sommerfeld
[23:37:46] <richlowe> alanc: See, I told you you're a bot.
[23:38:31] *** gm152 has joined #opensolaris
[23:38:49] *** slowhog has quit IRC
[23:40:01] <nrubsig>  /forcenick alanc OSolAlanCbot
[23:40:15] <Gman> hey comay
[23:40:29] <comay> hey glynn
[23:40:41] <Gman> oh, they've announced the schedule for osdevcon?
[23:41:19] <Gman> hrm
[23:44:54] *** coffman has joined #opensolaris
[23:45:12] <quants> is forcenick a real command?
[23:45:23] <quants> that would be wild
[23:49:18] <comay> nrubsig: 4296835 "in.rwhod" lacks usable configuration
[23:51:25] *** delewis has quit IRC
[23:53:56] *** coffman_ has joined #opensolaris
[23:54:06] *** Odin-LAP has joined #opensolaris
[23:54:30] *** coffman has quit IRC
[23:54:34] <nrubsig> oh come on
[23:54:37] <nrubsig> xxxxx at sun dot com
[23:54:44] <nrubsig> this is getting silly
[23:55:00] <Gman> yes.
[23:55:05] <Gman> join the queue
[23:55:13] <nrubsig> ?!
[23:55:24] <Odin-LAP> Silly is the name of the game!
[23:55:53] * nrubsig tasers Odin-LAP and then throws him into a pit with komodo dragons...
[23:55:58] <Gman> nrubsig, i agree with you, there's a whole line of people who also think it's silly
[23:56:13] <nrubsig> who is the manager ?
[23:56:20] <nrubsig> Tim Sparlin ?
[23:56:35] <nrubsig> or Bonnie ?
[23:56:36] <Gman> i can't check, i'm not on swan unfortunately
[23:56:41] * Odin-LAP uses his divine powers and orders the Einherjar to kill the lizards.
[23:57:00] <nrubsig> Odin-LAP: wrong universe.
[23:57:24] * nrubsig sends Jenny Greenteeth after Odin-LAP
[23:57:58] * Odin-LAP hasn't the foggiest what nrubsig is referring to, so he happily ignores it.
[23:58:15] *** bondolo has joined #opensolaris
[23:58:38] <comay> nrubsig: are you asking about the RM for the in.rwhod issue?
[23:58:40] <nrubsig> Odin-LAP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Greenteeth
[23:59:27] <nrubsig> Odin-LAP:  I finished reading "Wee Free Men" a few days ago and liked the treatment of Jenny (pan smacked directly into it's face)
[23:59:44] <nrubsig> comay: yes
[23:59:52] <nrubsig> comay: uhm
[23:59:57] <nrubsig> comay: RM=?





top