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[00:31:08] <mritun_>  /. is such a drag for any news that matters :-/
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[00:36:52] * milek doesn't understand why sxcr 55 isn't out yet...
[00:37:07] * mritun_ too waiting for it
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[00:38:00] <Tpenta> a lot of people don't understand it. We are unlikely to see movement today as it's a public hol in the US
[00:38:46] <milek> tpenta: it's been well over a week available internally I belive
[00:39:13] <milek> tpenta: I guess due to licensing it can't be done automatically
[00:39:14] <Tpenta> probably more
[00:39:50] <Tpenta> I *do* know their have been two respins
[00:40:15] <mritun_> ???
[00:40:18] <mritun_> in 55 !
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[00:40:34] <mritun_> it wa supposed to be bug-fix only release right ?
[00:40:39] <Tpenta> yup
[00:40:51] <Tpenta> i guess they found a few extra bugs after close
[00:40:57] <milek> 54-55 - yep, at least when it comes to ON
[00:40:58] <lloy0076> 55 -2 = 53. 53 respins to go!
[00:41:01] <mritun_> hmm
[00:41:14] <milek> however Sun Studio 11, Staroffice 8 were integrated in 55
[00:41:24] <mritun_> oh
[00:41:41] <mritun_> its already 4 CDs :-/
[00:41:47] <Tpenta> the respins were in ON I believe
[00:42:11] <mritun_> though I'd love to have STudio 11 come bundled
[00:42:37] <milek> such informations like respins should be posted to discsuss- list - at least some info like we're working on it and probably it will be available in next X days
[00:43:30] <Tpenta> there are all kinds of things that should go to announce or discuss (and I won't say any more about that)
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[00:46:15] <dwc-> oh, sun employees get today off? lucky them
[00:46:37] <dclarke> hello
[00:46:44] <dclarke> no holiday in Canada
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[00:46:56] <Kmays> what?
[00:47:04] <Chris7mas> hi
[00:47:08] <jmcp> dwc-: US Sun employees do
[00:47:19] <jmcp> hi Chris7mas
[00:47:22] <Kmays> Sun Canada - no?
[00:47:25] <dclarke> Kmays : GNOME 2.16.2 just halted again
[00:47:36] <dclarke> it was going *real* well too
[00:47:48] <dclarke> I mean the install .. not the actuall binaries
[00:47:55] <Chris7mas> i am a linux user and i'd give opensolaris a try but i have some questions
[00:48:00] <Kmays> '=' parsing?
[00:48:05] * jmcp just got an email from a US-based Sun exec
[00:48:06] <dwc-> lucky them.
[00:48:10] * dwc- doesn't get today off
[00:48:11] <jmcp> so clearly not everybody is taking the day off :)
[00:48:24] <dclarke> gstplugins_good 0.10.3,REV=2006.12.25 are EVIL !!
[00:48:34] <dclarke> Kmays : check your email
[00:48:39] * dwc- shakes his fist at all the employers who give their employees the day off
[00:49:00] <dclarke> Sun Canada ?? How the heck would I know
[00:49:06] <mritun_> anyone knows about the progress of BT project ?
[00:49:13] <Kmays> :I
[00:49:24] <Auralis> Chris7mas: shot ya questions
[00:49:34] <dclarke> in any case .. can your repackage gstplugins for Sparc ?
[00:49:52] <dclarke> Kmays : change nothing please .. we know that it works but that name has got to go
[00:49:57] <Chris7mas> first, i would like kde as the de, is it included on the solaris cds?
[00:50:01] <mritun_> Hi Dennis
[00:50:07] <mritun_> thanks for blastwave :)
[00:50:14] <Kmays> the package? (gst_evil)
[00:50:17] <dclarke> mritun_ : you're very welcome
[00:50:23] <Auralis> Chris7mas: no, but there is blaswave and solaris.kde.org
[00:50:25] * dclarke cranky today
[00:50:26] <Chris7mas> and, if i make a default installation, will gnome be installed by default (i read this on the forum iirc)
[00:50:41] <Auralis> yes, default install contains gnome and cde
[00:50:58] <dclarke> Chris7mas : GNOME 2.16.2 is right around the corner
[00:51:12] <Chris7mas> is there a way to install only a CLI system and then install kde? so gnome and cde would not occupy the space
[00:51:23] <Chris7mas> and thanks for the link, i will check into that
[00:51:29] <mritun_> Chris7mas: better have CDE at hand
[00:51:30] <Kmays> Looks ok: http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/gstplugins_good
[00:51:48] <Auralis> a way yes, but it will be rather painfull if new to solaris
[00:51:57] <dclarke> http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/GNOME/gnome_2.16.2.png
[00:52:04] <mritun_> I don't really trust Gnome or KDE
[00:52:06] <Auralis> better to install everything and then strip out what you don't need when you know you don't need it
[00:52:09] <Chris7mas> ok, that cleared some things up
[00:52:34] <Kmays> dcarke: looks good from ere..
[00:52:44] <Chris7mas> another one: will my nvidia card work well in 3D, and will do it using the nvidia binaries?
[00:52:59] <dclarke> Kmays :well its not good becuase it borked the install process
[00:53:05] <Auralis> it should, nvidia provides drivers for solaris
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[00:53:14] <dclarke> Kmays : we need a package named gstplugins and nothing else
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[00:53:30] <knic> how do I mount an iso under opensolaris/
[00:53:34] <Kmays> http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/gstplugins
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[00:54:01] <mritun_> dclarke:you got gnome on an ultra-2 !!
[00:54:02] <Chris7mas> are the tools the same as in linux? i mean basic programs and commands are from the gnu project?
[00:54:14] <mritun_> trying to kill it ?
[00:54:20] <dclarke> Chris7mas : hell no
[00:54:21] <Chris7mas> is the shell like bash?
[00:54:25] <Kmays> dclarke: it shouldn't have failed.
[00:54:33] <dclarke> Kmays : I agree man ..
[00:54:38] <Auralis> Chris7mas: similiar, the default userland is not gnu
[00:54:41] <dclarke> Kmays : http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/gstplugins is too old
[00:54:44] <Auralis> default shell is sh, not bash
[00:54:45] <Kmays> catalog borked?
[00:54:49] <Chris7mas> so they would work almost the same?
[00:54:55] <dclarke> catalog is fine
[00:54:56] <Kmays> I can just pull that package for now.
[00:54:59] <dclarke> gstplugins_good 0.10.3,REV=2006.12.25 CSWgstpluginsgood
[00:55:00] <Auralis> yes they are very similiar
[00:55:01] <Chris7mas> i guess sh is ok
[00:55:08] <dclarke> Kmays .. look .. did you get my email ?
[00:55:14] <Kmays> yes
[00:55:20] <mritun_> Chris7mas: bash and host of other shells are included
[00:55:20] <Chris7mas> compiling packages would be the same?
[00:55:25] <dclarke> Trying file:///mnt/unstable/sparc/5.8/gnomemedia-2.14.2,REV=2006.08.24-SunOS5.8-sparc-CSW.pkg.gz
[00:55:30] <dclarke> ERROR: no info for CSWgstplugins. Cannot install dependancy.
[00:55:37] <mritun_> exec bash for your convenience
[00:55:42] <mritun_> (though not as root)
[00:55:43] <Kmays> its in your catalog?
[00:55:53] <dclarke> Kmays : there it is in black and white .. or on my xterm .. green and black
[00:56:02] <dclarke> Kmays .. yes .. of course
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[00:56:12] <dclarke> # grep gst catalog
[00:56:13] <dclarke> gstplugins_good 0.10.3,REV=2006.12.25 CSWgstpluginsgood gstplugins_good-0.10.3,REV=2006.12.25-SunOS5.8-sparc-CSW.pkg.gz 3f8cf3b52822bebe8b17055135d9a52e
[00:56:23] <dclarke> Kmays : there it is
[00:56:24] <Auralis> Chris7mas: basicaly yes, configure, make, make install works fine in most cases on solaris
[00:56:35] <Kmays> oh...its notthe sme package.
[00:56:37] <IvanR__> knic: use lofiadm to create a block device, then mount like normal
[00:56:41] <Kmays> (not the same)
[00:56:41] <mritun_> did anyone has any luck with their hosting service providers to provide solaris ?
[00:56:41] <Chris7mas> so programs designed with linux in mind will most of the time work on solaris too, right?
[00:56:43] *** IvanR__ is now known as IvanR_
[00:56:48] <dclarke> Kmays : bingo !
[00:56:56] <Auralis> Chris7mas: if not written totaly braindead yes
[00:56:57] <mritun_> (with/without support)
[00:57:02] <dclarke> Kmays : GNOME Media is looking for a different name as a dependency
[00:57:17] <Kmays> what is 'gstplugins_good 0.10.3'
[00:57:27] <dclarke> Kmays : so we need to either repackage gnomemedia with a different dep list or rename gstplugins_good to the correct name
[00:57:35] <Chris7mas> i guess this is all i could think about right now...
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[00:57:44] <Chris7mas> thank you very much Auralis
[00:57:47] <Auralis> np
[00:57:53] <Kmays> gstplugins isn't gstplugins_good
[00:57:58] <dclarke> gstplugins_good 0.10.3,REV=2006.12.25  <<-- thats your package I think
[00:58:02] <Kmays> nope
[00:58:07] <dclarke> nope ?!?!
[00:58:11] <Kmays> missing "-"
[00:58:30] <dclarke> was it done by Santa Clause on Christmas day ?
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[00:58:56] <dclarke> Kmays : missing "-" ?
[00:59:02] <Kmays> gstplugins_good-0.10.3,REV=2006.12.25-SunOS5.8-sparc-CSW.pkg.gz
[00:59:03] <Kmays> gstplugins_ugly-0.10.4-SunOS5.8-sparc-CSW.pkg.gz
[00:59:04] <dclarke> Kmays : oh hell :-(
[00:59:26] <dclarke> well .. I need to eat
[00:59:33] <Kmays> :)
[00:59:34] <dclarke> let me take a break and then I want another run at it
[00:59:36] <dclarke> from the top
[00:59:45] <Kmays> I know..its been a long day.
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[00:59:51] <dclarke> and that means I need to back out ALL these packages again
[00:59:57] <dclarke> like .. 120 of them
[01:00:08] <Kmays> diff your catalog against the package names first
[01:00:15] <Kmays> really?
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[01:00:22] <dclarke> so .. let me start the pkgrm process and I'll go eay with a pile of "y" chars in the keyboard buffer :-)
[01:00:42] <dclarke> Kmays : yeah .. really .. last pkgrm run was 104 packages
[01:00:43] <Stric> yes | pkgrm  ;)
[01:00:52] <dclarke> yes ?
[01:01:05] <dclarke> # which yes
[01:01:06] <dclarke> no yes in /usr/xpg4/bin /sbin /bin /usr/sbin /usr/bin /usr/dt/bin /usr/openwin/bin /usr/ccs/bin
[01:01:10] <Stric> huh?
[01:01:26] <Chris7mas> i was thinking of another thing
[01:01:29] <Stric>      yes - generate repetitive affirmative output
[01:01:30] <dclarke> Stric : that's pretty clear I think
[01:01:33] <Stric>     | Availability                | SUNWesu                     |
[01:01:59] <Chris7mas> is there a package manager available, like apt or rpm or will i have to compile each program, including their dependencies?
[01:02:01] <dclarke> Stric : yeah yeah .. in Solaris 10
[01:02:18] <dclarke> Chris7mas : see http://www.blastwave.org and look at the HOWTO
[01:02:21] <Stric> .. and 9 at least
[01:02:28] <Stric> don't have any 8 box left
[01:02:34] <Chris7mas> thanks
[01:02:35] <dclarke> Stric : this is Solaris 8
[01:02:44] <dclarke> Kmays .. gotta run
[01:02:54] <dclarke> Kmays : got 123 packages to pkgrm
[01:03:00] * dclarke runs away screaming
[01:03:14] <Auralis> Chris7mas: there are several ways, blastwave is a apt-get like pkg repositry, sunfreeware is another, sun has a companion cd with pkgs in it, lots of stuff is in the normal install media, pkgsrc is there as well
[01:03:25] <Auralis> it all depends on how you like stuff done mostly
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[01:05:00] <Chris7mas> thanks again
[01:05:03] <Kmays> hehe... seems the new catalog needs a bit of winter cleaning...
[01:05:11] <Chris7mas> and the filesystem?
[01:05:38] <Chris7mas> will i have to format the ext3 partitions?
[01:05:50] <Auralis> yes, ext3 is not supported
[01:06:06] <Chris7mas> so what filesystem is used by solaris?
[01:06:07] <Auralis> ufs is default, with zfs for non root filesystems as of yet
[01:06:21] <Chris7mas> ok
[01:06:31] <Chris7mas> not even reading from it?
[01:06:54] <Auralis> there is a opensource ext3 driver around i think, but no clue how stable it is
[01:07:13] <Chris7mas> ok
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[01:27:34] <dclarke> okay .. I'm back
[01:27:39] <Kmays> ?
[01:28:05] <dclarke> still pkgrm'ing files
[01:28:17] <lloy0076> dclarke: rm -rf /* will do it much more quickly.
[01:28:18] <dclarke> my objective is to get one clean run of pkg-get -i gnome
[01:28:44] <dclarke> once we get that on Sparc I will then freeze those packages and move on to i386 gear
[01:29:03] <dclarke> lloy0076 : not in Solaris 10 it won't
[01:29:25] <dclarke> rm -rf /  in Solaris 10 will simply not work
[01:29:32] <dclarke> but .. you said rm -rf /*
[01:29:41] <dclarke> hrmm .. gee ... maybe I should try that
[01:30:36] <dclarke> Kmays : I have a DEC vt220 hooked to the ttya port on the test server and it runs prstat -m 5   for me
[01:30:50] <dclarke> Kmays : so I can tell whats eating CPU as I test
[01:31:23] <dclarke>  Removal of <CSWatspi> was successful.
[01:31:47] <Kmays> How long does it usually take?
[01:31:48] <LeftWing> Is /usr/sbin/shutdown aware of the solaris.system.shutdown right or is that for SMC/other things?
[01:31:49] <dclarke> gstplugins_good ?? wwhat do I do with this ?
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[01:32:11] <Kmays> fix the catalog o remove it and use the old package.
[01:32:24] <dclarke> Kmays : removal of 120 packages .. estimate 60 secs each
[01:32:36] <Kmays> =10 years? :P
[01:33:09] <dclarke> okay .. 15 secs each
[01:33:16] <dclarke> Removal of <CSWpng> was successful.
[01:33:49] <dclarke> Removal of <CSWlibatk> was successful.
[01:33:55] <Kmays> ok 1.5 hours...hmm
[01:33:56] <dclarke> Removal of <CSWjpeg> was successful.
[01:34:34] <dclarke> if this were a Sun Blade 2500 with 1.6 GHz procs and 15,000 rpm disks then it would really rock
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[01:34:52] <dclarke> but .. its a Sun Ultra 2 with 200 MHz procs and 7200 rpm 9GB disks
[01:35:08] <dclarke> Removal of <CSWfconfig> was successful.
[01:35:29] <quants> guys?
[01:35:39] <Kmays> you may ant thison the blastwave channel...
[01:35:46] <dclarke> in the mean time .. I don't want to run into this brick wall again .. what do we do about gstplugins_good ??
[01:35:57] <quants> first things first I got my first install of SXCR on my lifebook
[01:36:08] <dclarke> quants : well done !
[01:36:15] <Kmays> dclarke: can you fix the '-' issue inthe catalog
[01:36:16] <dclarke> quants : what rev ?
[01:36:17] <quants> anything I should look at?
[01:36:26] <Kmays> Toshiba?
[01:36:28] <dclarke> quants : uname -a
[01:36:29] <quants> rev?
[01:36:32] <quants> ah
[01:36:43] <Kmays> psrinfo -v
[01:36:57] <Kmays> prtdiag |more
[01:36:59] <dclarke> prtconf -v | grep Memory
[01:37:17] <quants> 5.11 snv_48
[01:37:18] <dclarke>  /usr/platform/`uname -m`/sbin/prtfru
[01:37:41] <richlowe> prtfru doesn't exist on x86.
[01:37:43] <quants> wow all of that?
[01:37:58] <dclarke> oops
[01:38:13] <dclarke> oh well .. thats what I get for years of Sparc life
[01:38:24] <dclarke> Kmays : pkgrm is donw
[01:38:27] <dclarke> # ls -lt /var/sadm/pkg | grep CSW | wc -l
[01:38:28] <dclarke>       24
[01:38:37] <Kmays> wow..pretty quick
[01:38:48] <dclarke> I started before I left to eat
[01:38:49] <Kmays> fix gstplugins_good first
[01:38:53] <dclarke> # y: not found
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[01:39:02] <edwardocallaghan> Hi all
[01:39:10] <dclarke> lots of those on my screen because I fed it "y" over and over and then walked away
[01:39:21] <edwardocallaghan> boyd: Are you around mate ?
[01:39:26] <Kmays> we pulled it from the testing dir and it works fine there..
[01:39:33] <dclarke> okay .. let me carefully scrutinize the catalog and the package filenames
[01:39:34] <Kmays> it has to be the NFS catalog
[01:39:41] <edwardocallaghan> Ah dclarke:your in Aus right
[01:39:55] <dclarke> edwardocallaghan : other direction .. Canada
[01:40:05] <edwardocallaghan> Oh yea that's it
[01:40:28] <quants> oh well I'll do this later when things slow down a bit
[01:40:32] <edwardocallaghan> lol I am bad with remembering these things as you can see :p lol
[01:40:37] <quants> bbl
[01:40:42] <Tpenta> it's jmcp and me that's in Aus
[01:40:48] <Kmays> Nvidia Quadro FX 1500M is good enough for laptop use.
[01:40:51] <dclarke> edwardocallaghan : there are no countries on the internet
[01:41:16] <edwardocallaghan> True but I am looking for some tickets to sydney
[01:41:27] <jmcp> boyd is also in Aus, and gman is in NZ
[01:41:29] <edwardocallaghan> Can any one help for the 26th of this month
[01:41:38] <edwardocallaghan> I know boyd is yes
[01:41:46] <edwardocallaghan> boyd's a top man
[01:41:50] <Kmays> Talk to GMan..he is in NZ
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[01:42:05] <Gman> hrm, what;s up?
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[01:43:02] <Kmays> Gman <- Ed's going to Aus
[01:43:14] <dclarke> on the internet .. and on IRC .. well .. this is a picture of me : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/Dennis.jpg
[01:43:30] <Gman> cool, i'm in sydney right now for linux.conf.au
[01:43:47] <Kmays> :O dclarke
[01:43:50] <dclarke> smart looking eh ?
[01:44:13] <jsubl2> very smart
[01:44:21] <edwardocallaghan> Gman:Do you think I can get there in time for something like that?
[01:44:39] <Gman> edwardocallaghan, don't think registration is open for it anymore
[01:44:49] <Gman> though there's an free open day on thursday that you can still drop into
[01:44:59] <dclarke> er .. I just got a deactivation notice from Network Solutions .. I better look into that
[01:45:20] <dclarke> BLASTWAVE.TV ... like I care
[01:45:36] <Kmays> dclarke: superimpose a SB2000 inthe background or something on that pic!
[01:46:04] <dclarke> Kmays : ha ha .. yeah
[01:46:09] <edwardocallaghan> Can some one please help with my tickets where should I be looking ? :p
[01:46:11] <dclarke> I like it the way it is
[01:46:50] <edwardocallaghan> Is  Virgin Atlantic good??
[01:46:52] <dclarke> Kmays : I better get my butt in gear here
[01:47:08] <dclarke> Kmays : its been a 8 hour day on this already and there are hours to go
[01:47:12] <Gman> edwardocallaghan, to australia? where are you coming from?
[01:47:20] <edwardocallaghan> London
[01:47:25] <Kmays> dclarke: true
[01:47:28] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: and why are you wandering to this side of the planet?
[01:47:28] <dclarke> Kmays : I'll look at what caused the failre last time
[01:47:37] <Tpenta> look forward to spending 20-24 hours in the air
[01:47:46] <sahafeez> hum you should get it so when there is a tv show called blastwave ;)
[01:47:54] <Gman> edwardocallaghan, there's a number of options, singapore airlines, qantas, lufthansa, emerites
[01:48:00] <richlowe> Tpenta: given recent reports of heathrow, probably just as many on the ground, too.
[01:48:06] <Tpenta> Singapore Air is nice to fly
[01:48:17] <Gman> edwardocallaghan, singapore, airnz, qantas are probably the more expensive options
[01:48:20] <jmcp> their food and inflight entertainment is good
[01:48:21] <sahafeez> 2nd that. Singapore
[01:48:26] <Kmays> 3rd
[01:48:34] <Stric> Qatar airways is pretty cheap and 5 star ;)
[01:48:36] <jmcp> ditto Austrian
[01:48:55] <Gman> just go to your local travel agent rather than book online
[01:49:08] <Gman> they usually buy bulk tickets so you could get better offers
[01:49:15] <edwardocallaghan> But I only have till the 26th
[01:49:27] <edwardocallaghan> I need to go on the 26th or there abouts !
[01:49:39] <lloy0076> I'm Australian.
[01:49:42] 
[01:49:52] <edwardocallaghan> Is that ok for booking so late ?
[01:49:53] <dclarke> WARNING:
[01:49:53] <dclarke>     The <CSWgstplugins> package "" is a prerequisite
[01:49:53] <dclarke>     package and should be installed.
[01:49:59] <Gman> edwardocallaghan, i'm sure you could book a flight today if you needed to ;)
[01:50:02] <lloy0076> dclarke: How come you're a dog? Or is that a bitch?
[01:50:04] <lloy0076> :P
[01:50:12] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[01:50:19] <Kmays> no you didn't!!
[01:50:23] <Gman> my flights to london and back from nz were about 2200 nzd
[01:50:26] <dclarke> lloy0076 : don't make me lift my leg !
[01:50:27] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: that 900quid is probably ok
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[01:50:30] <jmcp> why are you coming?
[01:50:39] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[01:50:46] <edwardocallaghan> I am studying there
[01:50:48] <dclarke> Kmays : I just did a test install of CSWgnomemedia
[01:50:50] <Gman> about 730 gbp
[01:50:52] <dclarke> Installation of <CSWgnomemedia> was successful.
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[01:50:55] <edwardocallaghan> Then I plan to move there
[01:50:58] <Kmays> cool
[01:51:02] <lloy0076> All these damned students infiltrating my country.
[01:51:22] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: don't bother with Bondi then
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[01:51:44] <dclarke> Kmays : I want to see whats in CSWgnomemedia/install/depend precisely
[01:51:56] <edwardocallaghan> lol well at lest I bring intelligences (:~/)
[01:52:08] <dclarke> Kmays : just as I suspected .. it says "P CSWgstplugins"
[01:52:26] <dclarke>  Kmays : and *that* will fail
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[01:52:52] <Kmays> Huh??
[01:52:56] <dclarke> Kmays : the package in the catalog is CSWgstpluginsgood
[01:53:49] <Kmays> P CSWgstplugins = http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/gstplugins
[01:53:52] <dclarke> Kmays : this the dependency will fail to resolve no matter what
[01:54:03] <dclarke> yah .. I know
[01:54:20] <dclarke> gnomemedia-2.14.2,REV=2006.08.24-SunOS5.8-sparc-CSW.pkg <<-- wants gstplugins
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[01:54:36] <dclarke> Kmays : and I tested with gstplugins_good
[01:54:44] <Kmays>  CSWgstpluginsgood has 0 package dependencies on it.
[01:54:45] <dclarke> Kmays : done on Christmas day
[01:55:21] <Kmays> ooohhhhh!!!
[01:55:26] <Kmays> hha..sorry
[01:55:37] <dclarke> Kmays : you're killin' me
[01:55:59] <dclarke> :-)
[01:56:06] <dclarke> see what I'm saying now ?
[01:56:11] <edwardocallaghan> So you guys think 900 is ok?
[01:56:27] <edwardocallaghan> Its got a stop over for the whole day in Sing...
[01:56:31] <Kmays> but..gstpluginsgood isn;t used by anything.
[01:56:31] * dclarke what am I .. a freaking travel agent ?
[01:56:43] <Kmays> so how did that happen?!?!
[01:56:44] <dclarke> Kmays : its what I tested with
[01:56:55] <dclarke> Kmays : heck .. I don't know
[01:57:14] <edwardocallaghan> Yes I thought you are :D
[01:57:15] <sahafeez> virgin atlantic is a great airline
[01:57:24] <edwardocallaghan> Really ?
[01:57:37] <edwardocallaghan> OK so I should book then
[01:57:38] <dclarke> Kmays : let me look at it .. # pkgadd -R /tmp/test -d ./gstplugins_good-0.10.*
[01:57:52] <Gman> yeah, virgin is fine
[01:58:03] <lloy0076> edwardocallaghan: If you go to Vietnam first, you could fetch a ride with some boat people.
[01:58:08] <sahafeez> upper class on virgin is great
[01:58:12] <Kmays> dclarke: its not the file to look at ...you have gstplugins in there as well.
[01:58:30] <Kmays> CSWgstplugins 	gstplugins	GStreamer plugins handling various media types
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[01:59:00] <dclarke> VERSION=0.10.3,REV=2006.12.25
[01:59:07] <dclarke> VENDOR=http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/sources/gst-plugins-good packaged for CSW by Ken Mays
[01:59:12] <dclarke> PSTAMP=ra20070101200517
[01:59:23] <dclarke> hell .. you built it and I'm gonna use it
[01:59:32] <Kmays> yes..but that is not the file used by gnomemedia.
[01:59:40] <dclarke> PKG=CSWgstpluginsgood
[01:59:43] <Kmays> gstplugins is 	0.10.7
[01:59:50] <Kmays> or 0.10.10
[01:59:55] <dclarke> VERSION=0.10.3 ??
[01:59:57] <dclarke> what ?
[02:00:02] <Kmays> nope..
[02:00:03] <dclarke> hold on a sec .. hold the phone
[02:00:08] <dclarke> one sec ..
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[02:00:16] <dclarke> just bloody stop !  :-)
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[02:01:10] <dclarke> gstplugins-0.10.7-SunOS5.8-sparc-CSW.pkg.gz ... oh crap
[02:01:24] <dclarke> yep .. there it is and I have it
[02:01:44] <dclarke> okay okay .. I have to rip out gstplugins_good and toss it over my shoulder
[02:02:02] <dclarke> let me get the md5 sig from gstplugins-0.10.7-SunOS5.8-sparc-CSW.pkg.gz and then stuff it into the catalog
[02:02:49] <Kmays> phew
[02:03:07] <Kmays> now back to Aus travel...
[02:03:35] <dclarke> gstplugins 0.10.7 CSWgstplugins gstplugins-0.10.7-SunOS5.8-sparc-CSW.pkg.gz a62cce64f8f9c28c83d35e0bf6be1f30
[02:03:36] <edwardocallaghan> Yes please
[02:03:43] <dclarke> Kmays : got it
[02:03:50] 
[02:03:55] <dclarke> Kmays : okay .. here we go again !
[02:04:03] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[02:04:05] <dclarke> Kmays : fourth time a charm .. I hope
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[02:07:26] <dclarke> # (Descriptions from site localhost )
[02:07:26] <dclarke> gstplugins - GStreamer plugins handling various media types
[02:07:26] <dclarke> gstplugins_good - GStreamer Plugins (Good)
[02:07:41] <dclarke> Kmays : Descriptions still carries a doppleganger
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[02:08:58] <dclarke> Kmays : I'll ignore http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/gstplugins_good
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[02:14:05] <edwardocallaghan> If I leave the UK on the 26th what day approx would I get to Sydney ?
[02:14:18] <Gman> 28th probably
[02:14:34] <Gman> maybe later if you have a day in singapore
[02:14:48] * dclarke thinks "you won't catch me on a commercial plane anymore"
[02:15:09] <lloy0076> It actually depends where the hijackers decide to take you...
[02:15:10] <lloy0076> :P
[02:15:36] <dclarke> Kmays : we are installing again
[02:15:52] <dclarke> Kmays : the gstplugings issue was my mistake
[02:16:05] <richlowe> Gman: 29th maybe, localtime.
[02:16:21] <richlowe> (it's +15 or so, isn't it?)
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[02:18:35] <Gman> 11 hours ahead i think
[02:19:23] <quants> I don't know why poeple don't just exterminate hijackers
[02:19:38] <quants> hold em down, then kill em
[02:19:47] <Gman> ok, later all
[02:19:50] <dclarke> http://rafb.net/p/QNLhyF35.html <-- question about NFS
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[02:20:02] <dclarke> is there a NFS v4 server client for Solaris 8 ?
[02:20:10] <edwardocallaghan> yes kill
[02:21:01] <Kmays> there was (NFSv4)
[02:21:10] <dclarke> for Solaris 8 ?
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[02:21:48] <Kmays> Y... let me check
[02:22:00] <dclarke> here is another question for the old guys here
[02:22:21] <dclarke> was there ever a CPU/Activity monitor that ran with ncurses or on a dumb terminal ..
[02:22:28] <dclarke> which waws visible from many feet away
[02:22:46] <dclarke> like a big bar of characters that crawed across the screen
[02:23:04] <dclarke> there must have been something liek that at one point
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[02:23:33] <dclarke> I'm sure that I could code such a thing fairly easily
[02:24:06] <lloy0076> dclarke: If you implement Swing on Curses or GTK+ on Curses you could use many, many varieties of them...
[02:24:22] <dclarke>  use the kstat chain to fetch the CPU activity level .. avg across the procs and then print out a bar of * chars across the termina l
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[02:24:48] <dclarke> I just want real basic C and printf .. thats it
[02:25:20] <dlg> lloy0076: that might skew the values you're printing a bit
[02:25:45] <dclarke> also a pain in the butt to code
[02:26:00] <dclarke> I'm thinking of maybe 30 lines of C
[02:26:06] * lloy0076 wants Swing for HTML - it would make web apps easier to write.
[02:26:21] <dlg> lloy0076: i think google did somethign like that
[02:27:19] <lloy0076> dlg: Yahoo and Google both have good Ajax libraries but they don't adapt Swing to HTML :( It would be kind of really kewl to be able to code a Java Swing app and simply run it on any browser including the evil IE series.
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[02:27:52] <loke_> lloy0076: seriously. that'd be way too much work
[02:27:59] <loke_> lloy0076: for very little benefit
[02:28:17] <lloy0076> loke_: I agree, however I wasn't suggesting *I* or *we* do the work :P
[02:28:52] <loke_> HTML is not Swing, and one should not sry to shoehorn it to fit. It's better to have a HTML-specific API, just like GWT. (of course, the GWT api sucks, but that's for different reasons)
[02:31:04] <Kmays> dclarke: I was using Reflection NFS client (WRQ)
[02:31:31] <dclarke> Kmays : thanks
[02:31:41] <dclarke> Kmays : I have moved on to reading about getloadavg(3C)
[02:34:13] <Kmays> kerboris v5 days
[02:34:24] <edwardocallaghan> www.opodo.co.uk is shit
[02:34:25] <Kmays> kerberos
[02:34:36] <edwardocallaghan> I don't think there site works with firefox
[02:34:47] <edwardocallaghan> All these travel sites are shit
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[02:37:58] <dclarke> http://rafb.net/p/SRXyg915.html  <-- this is what I'll use
[02:38:17] <dclarke> I just need to iterate through the kstat chain to find the CPU data
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[02:42:03] <dclarke> mrdeviant : hello
[02:42:10] <mrdeviant> hi
[02:42:39] <dclarke> last time I checked you were a real guru at such things .. know the kstat chain at all ?
[02:42:49] <mrdeviant> a bit, yes.
[02:42:56] <dclarke> http://rafb.net/p/SRXyg915.html
[02:43:03] <dclarke> thats from the man page in Sol 8
[02:43:12] <mrdeviant> yea
[02:43:29] <dclarke> I just want to write a real dumb bit of code that walks through the chain of named value pairs ..
[02:43:32] <dclarke> find the CPU data
[02:43:37] <dclarke> average the activity
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[02:44:00] <dclarke> then printout out a sequence of asterisks for the CPU activity level
[02:44:26] <mrdeviant> there is a c interface to kstat, and perl and java wrappers around that
[02:44:31] <dclarke> I figure that way I can then have a script that simply loops with sleep 5;kstat_cpu
[02:44:48] <dclarke> mrdeviant : I saw the perl stuff
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[02:45:10] <dclarke> mrdeviant : but if I use my own code then I can avoid dragging in Perl just to get the CPU activity level
[02:45:31] <dclarke> otherwise I get Shrodingers cat
[02:45:47] <dclarke> if I look at the CPU .. I affect the activity level .. you know
[02:46:00] <mrdeviant> http://developers.sun.com/solaris/articles/kstatc.html
[02:46:05] <dclarke> thats the one
[02:46:10] <dclarke> its an oldie but a goodie
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[02:46:43] <mrdeviant> kstat is designed to be low overhead, so just extracting a few stats and averaging them shouldn't affect your cpu load too much
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[02:48:49] <dclarke> mrdeviant : I was thinking that using the perl wrappers would
[02:49:22] <dclarke> Kmays ?
[02:49:29] <mrdeviant> i guess it depends. if you run it as a daemon, prob not. if you fire up the interpreter for every run, then yea, it will have an effect
[02:49:34] <dclarke> Kmays : we are making progress thus far here
[02:49:45] <dclarke> $ ls -lt /var/sadm/pkg | grep Jan\ 15 | wc -l
[02:49:45] <dclarke>       78
[02:52:02] <dclarke> mrdeviant : well .. I'll take a crack at writing something
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[02:53:48] <mrdeviant> my big problem w/ kstat isn't the api (it's cake), it's finding out which stat(s) you want
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[02:54:10] <mrdeviant> but i believe vmstat & co. use kstat to get data. that might be a good place to look for a start.
[02:57:59] <Kmays> here
[02:57:59] <dclarke> mrdeviant : brilliant hint !
[02:58:27] <dclarke> mrdeviant : yeah .. my first crack at it and I will need to walk the whole chain to find what I am lookng for
[02:58:55] <dclarke> Kmays : making progress here .. I think
[02:59:16] <dclarke> I'll go look at the source to mpstat
[02:59:24] <dclarke> that will probably be simpler
[02:59:42] <Kmays> ok.. working on this rt2500 WiFi driver...brb
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[03:00:20] <dlg> woo, ral
[03:00:51] <dclarke> cc -\# -xstrconst -xildoff -xarch=v7 -Kpic -xlibmil -Xa -xbuiltin=\%all -xO0 -c -o foo.o foo.c -lkstat
[03:01:04] <dclarke> that will ensure that it can run on a Sparc 20
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[03:11:56] <dclarke> Installation of <CSWnautilus> was successful.
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[03:14:38] <dclarke> one sec .. be right back
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[03:22:21] <edwardocallaghan> So I don't understand Solaris patches, are they hard to apply ?
[03:22:34] <jbk> not really
[03:23:59] <edwardocallaghan> As in Fedora you just do yum -y update & or download the RPM's into a dir and then do rpm -Uvh *.rpm or so.. maybe -F depends on what your doing
[03:24:18] <jbk> 'patchadd patch#'
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[03:24:49] <dlg> edwardocallaghan: then you spend two days fixing your box
[03:24:51] <edwardocallaghan> From my understanding Solaris packages are tar's, no ? kind of like Slackware ?
[03:24:56] <richlowe> No.
[03:25:02] <richlowe> but also "kind of"
[03:25:15] <edwardocallaghan> Yes well that's why I am here, to learn Solaris
[03:25:33] <richlowe> under the hood, nearly all packaging systems are an archive of delivered files, a (possible) series of scripts to run at predetermined points, and metadata.
[03:25:37] <richlowe> so in that regard, yes.
[03:25:44] <edwardocallaghan> and make friends with your lovely lot
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[03:26:09] <edwardocallaghan> Well I know tht
[03:26:18] <edwardocallaghan> s/tht/that
[03:26:25] <edwardocallaghan> /
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[03:27:59] <edwardocallaghan> Could some one please explain clearly short and sweet the main difference between RPM's as I know them well and Solaris's packages, then I can take that and do some more googles to find more out my self
[03:28:38] <jamesd> sun's packages end in  pkg, and  rpms  end in rpm ..  one works on solaris, the other doesn't
[03:28:57] <edwardocallaghan> lol, jamesd
[03:29:18] <dlg> completely different
[03:29:19] <edwardocallaghan> I knew you would some some thing like that and that you would be the first
[03:30:04] <g4lt-U60> edwardocallaghan, google for sysV packaging
[03:30:14] <edwardocallaghan> Yea so could some one help,,,, ah ok
[03:30:36] <quants> "redhat package manager"
[03:30:45] <quants> "r.p.m."
[03:31:04] <quants> redhat Linux
[03:31:15] <edwardocallaghan> Yes I know, I said I know about RPM's
[03:31:33] <edwardocallaghan> Every one knows about them I guess
[03:31:51] <dlg> ever written a spec file for one?
[03:31:56] <dlg> INSANE
[03:32:29] <edwardocallaghan> I was wondering how Solaris packages solve dependies
[03:32:40] <richlowe> is "badly" a good enough answer?
[03:32:40] <Auralis> very simple
[03:32:41] <edwardocallaghan> Yes I have, for Firefox2.0
[03:32:43] <Auralis> they don't
[03:32:58] <Auralis> they tell you if a dep is missing, thats it
[03:33:17] <edwardocallaghan> ah
[03:33:34] <Auralis> and thats only if the packaher bothered to list the deps
[03:34:03] <edwardocallaghan> Who admin's Sun box for a living here, I wonder what's used in the trade to solve them ?
[03:34:13] <edwardocallaghan> APT ?
[03:34:49] <jamesd> edwardocallaghan, reading the documentations....  or if you are building them your self...  seeing what fails and getting the needed parts to fix it.
[03:35:08] <Auralis> nope, just plain reading and adding the stuff a pkg complains about
[03:35:58] <edwardocallaghan> I am reading http://www.blastwave.org/standards/pkgcreation.php
[03:36:35] <edwardocallaghan> So admin's don't install front ends to manage packages and there updates ?
[03:36:44] <edwardocallaghan> They sort them there selfs ?
[03:37:26] <Auralis> well, the sun delivered pkgs are updated with patches, the stuff from other sources you are on your own
[03:37:31] <jamesd> yes.. and they have non production boxes to test on and they read and review all patches and bug reports
[03:38:14] <edwardocallaghan> I don't think Linux admins do this ?
[03:38:24] <edwardocallaghan> Well I mean to that extent...
[03:38:24] <jamesd> the good ones do...
[03:39:03] <edwardocallaghan> What if Solaris is to be used as a Desktop ?
[03:39:17] <Tekni> edwardocallaghan: the same applies
[03:39:41] <jamesd> when the boss calls you in the office and bitches why was our production box down for 4 hours last night... he doesn't want to hear  that  "yumm  patched the system and broke the box  causing 250,000 in lost sales"
[03:41:01] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[03:41:18] <jamesd> saying "yumm" when talking about 250,000 in lost sales is a guaranteed to a quick trip to your desk with secutity behind you to help you clean it out and escort you to the door.
[03:41:18] <Theoden-Nexenta> SysInfo:  SunOS Warlord 5.11 NexentaOS_20070105 i86pc i386 i86pc Solaris  |   850 MHz | Mem: 251.4/255.5M [||||||||||] | Diskspace: 8.90G Free: 4.70G | Procs: 83 | Uptime: 0.19, 0.24, 0.24 |1024x768 (16 bpp)
[03:41:19] <Tekni> I am beginning to deploy Nexenta in production for all my x86 based systems, but even then I maintain a local snapshot of the main repository as well as a local repository
[03:41:20] <Theoden-Nexenta>
[03:41:24] <edwardocallaghan> I am wondering about Solaris on the Desktop?
[03:41:39] <edwardocallaghan> But I guess its not its place
[03:41:52] <Auralis> it works ok as desktop
[03:41:52] <Triskelios> edwardocallaghan: I use solaris on my laptops...
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[03:42:13] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: I've been using Solaris as my desktop since 1997
[03:42:23] <edwardocallaghan> I am using it on my SB2000 sure
[03:42:30] <Tekni> I've been using it as a desktop since 95
[03:42:35] <richlowe> jmcp: during how much of that time have you had a choice? :)
[03:43:08] <Triskelios> I don't own any modern sun hardware
[03:43:23] <Error_e^ipi> I'm using solaris on my lappy
[03:43:28] <edwardocallaghan> I am looking into Nexenta and how I can help
[03:43:41] <edwardocallaghan> I think that will be a killer project
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[03:44:16] <Triskelios> it has potential
[03:44:21] <edwardocallaghan> Having that means Linux has services its place and now needs to die
[03:44:40] <edwardocallaghan> I am talking about the kernel
[03:45:01] <Tekni> Nexenta needs more people to pick up a package or two and start maintaining it
[03:45:02] <Triskelios> I think express is getting along very well
[03:45:45] <edwardocallaghan> I think I may just be joining the Nexenta project
[03:45:56] <jmcp> richlowe: most of it
[03:46:03] <edwardocallaghan> Why don't they use this new solaris installer
[03:46:10] <Tekni> edwardocallaghan: one word, legacy
[03:46:31] <edwardocallaghan> Or put there time on it and use the two dev groups
[03:47:17] <edwardocallaghan> Sure but... Nexenta can be used as a home OS now as it uses Debian packages right, just needs more drivers
[03:48:11] <edwardocallaghan> I still think drivers hold OS's back and that more time should be put into them, even if they do require time (lots of it)
[03:48:22] * Auralis has used solaris sind solaris 2.5 has home desktop
[03:49:00] <quants> Linux isn't going anywhere
[03:50:59] <Tekni> edwardocallaghan: Sun has never positioned Solaris as a desktop OS for home users
[03:51:54] <Tekni> they don't stand to make any revenue from something like that in terms of hardware sales, at least not directly
[03:53:17] <edwardocallaghan> Yes I know I said, "I guess its not its place" up there ^
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[03:55:41] <edwardocallaghan> Nexenta could be the next Linux done right though but so could PC-BSD
[03:56:17] <delewis> why don't you just people use what meets their needs/
[03:56:39] <delewis> s/\//?/
[03:56:52] * delewis needs coffee
[03:57:09] <jmcp> delewis: you and me both
[03:57:20] <Theoden-Nexenta> edwardocallaghan: Given the choice - I'd take nexenta over pcbsd any day any time.
[03:58:33] * delewis is trying to get that pile of crap known as the "MySQL GUI tools" to build.
[03:58:56] <delewis> unfortunately, they make extensive use of some obscene C++ GTK binding.
[03:59:05] <edwardocallaghan> What's a GUI hehe ;)
[03:59:07] <delewis> which has 10^500000 dependencies.
[03:59:12] <Error_e^ipi> not a fan of GNU userspace
[03:59:35] <Error_e^ipi> no offence or anything, I just don't like nexenta
[03:59:54] <edwardocallaghan> dependencies, are great ... They give meaning to my life :p
[04:00:35] <lloy0076> Sun Studio, C++ and GNU libraries are evil.
[04:00:44] <delewis> well, the way things are looking, it looks like a need a newer glib than that is being shipped, and that requires a whole new GTK, basically.
[04:00:53] <delewis> and GTK really, really sucks to build.
[04:00:54] <edwardocallaghan> I think Nexenta has the place of being the next Linux but 'done right' i.e. a Desktop OS
[04:01:06] <delewis> lloy0076: Sun Studio is evil?
[04:01:20] <lloy0076> delewis: When combined with C++, G++ and GNU crud.
[04:01:25] <delewis> edwardocallaghan: who cares?
[04:01:34] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[04:02:04] <edwardocallaghan> Yes delewis I know not the right IRC for that comment
[04:02:11] <jmcp> lloy0076: c++ is evil. not all of the gnu libs are though
[04:02:32] <delewis> readline isn't bad.
[04:03:01] <lloy0076> jmcp: If I had a radar which said: "That GNU Library won't cause /usr/ccs/bin/ld or GCC or Sun Studio or some random linker that Solaris decided to use today to not find symbols..." I'd agree with you.
[04:03:11] <lloy0076> ATM it's easier believing that they're ALL evil :P
[04:03:31] <delewis> lloy0076: you're exagerating.
[04:03:46] <jmcp> lloy0076: that's soft
[04:03:47] <delewis> most of the GNU libs/applications do build with Sun Studio -- it's the people that use these libs to build other applications that usually do not build.
[04:04:03] <jmcp> lloy0076: basic rule of thumb ... don't use gas or gld
[04:04:04] <lloy0076> Step 1. Install MySQL from the MySQL community edition Solaris packages
[04:04:12] <lloy0076> 2. Then try to get them to build against Solaris /usr/apache2
[04:04:20] <delewis> huh?
[04:04:23] <lloy0076> I did but I had to "hide" /usr/ccs/bin/ld" to do it.
[04:04:26] <lloy0076> errk
[04:04:28] <delewis> MySQL doesn't even require Apache.
[04:04:31] <lloy0076> Get PHP5 sources to build.
[04:04:35] <delewis> and MySQL builds fine with /usr/ccs/bin/ld
[04:04:42] <delewis> php-5.2.0 builds fine
[04:04:47] <delewis> as does 5.1.2
[04:04:50] <delewis> what planet are you from?
[04:04:57] <steleman> C++ linkage problems have very little to do with GNU ld or Sun ld
[04:05:09] <Error_e^ipi> hey steleman
[04:05:13] <lloy0076> PHP5 doesn't build nicely with the versions of software that I have installed at home.
[04:05:16] <steleman> they actually have a lot to do with the compiler frontend
[04:05:21] <delewis> lloy0076: builds fine here.
[04:05:26] <delewis> I suspect PEBKAC.
[04:05:29] <steleman> hey Error :-)
[04:05:37] <lloy0076> Everything builds ok but MySQL causes the linker or something to fail.
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[04:05:53] <delewis> mysql-5.0.27 builds nicely on Solaris 10u3 and Sun Studio 11.
[04:06:00] <lloy0076> In another way, I can build php5 + mysql support against /usr/sfw/mysql
[04:06:07] <delewis> as does php-5.1.2 and php-5.2.0 with a recent libxml2
[04:06:14] <lloy0076> But I can't buiild it against /opt/mysql/ (which is where MySQL's packages hail from)
[04:06:18] <Auralis> i had lately better success building with studio 11 then with gcc ...
[04:06:31] <delewis> lloy0076: I roll my own MySQL.
[04:06:38] <delewis> and PHP has no problem building against that.
[04:06:39] <edwardocallaghan> Whens garden Gnome going to be upgraded in Solaris ?
[04:06:42] <lloy0076> delewis: Hence, you have a well-defined toolchain.
[04:06:53] <delewis> of course.
[04:06:56] <lloy0076> delewis: I'm using things rolled by other people and finding that it causes me issues.
[04:07:01] <delewis> I build all freeware that is not shipped with Solaris
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[04:07:38] <delewis> well, that's not really true. I do have SMCpine installed (just because Pine's build system is *ugly*)
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[04:08:28] <delewis> $ pkginfo | grep DEL | wc -l
[04:08:29] <delewis>       24
[04:08:34] <delewis> and that's only a subset.
[04:08:40] <delewis> my package repository grows daily :-)
[04:09:13] <delewis> $ find . -name "DEL*" -print | wc -l
[04:09:14] <delewis>       64
[04:09:30] <onbot> commit by bm42561:  6503169 Warning: too many mappings from efcode interpreter when configuring a board
[04:10:47] <edwardocallaghan> Do the BCM drivers now work in Solaris out the box?
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[04:20:37] * nbkk6fo_ lets delewis know grep has a -i option
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[04:21:23] <Triskelios> edwardocallaghan: I thought there was only ndis for that
[04:23:07] <edwardocallaghan> Oh I saw some firmware being eng...
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[04:33:16] <edwardocallaghan> Good night lads, I'm smashed
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[04:44:10] <Kmays> Seems dclarke was successful with his GNOME install.
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[05:09:33] <UnixTitan> gnome. yuk.
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[05:12:12] <lloy0076> IMHO, kde is worse.
[05:14:05] <UnixTitan> much
[05:14:23] <UnixTitan> e17 is the high road.
[05:14:50] <Error_e^ipi> I like kde
[05:14:52] <Error_e^ipi> *shrug*
[05:15:36] <lloy0076> Error_e^ipi: I find KDE aesthetically unpleasing; I don't particularly dislike it on technical merits (although I consider it a little more bloated than Gnome, but Gnome2 is getting to be bloatware too these days).
[05:16:04] <Error_e^ipi> It uses less memory than gnome
[05:16:07] <Error_e^ipi> gtk is very memory intensive
[05:16:21] <Error_e^ipi> that said, I wouldn't consider "lack of bloat" as either one of the features
[05:16:22] <UnixTitan> as is qt
[05:16:25] <lloy0076> I haven't used the latest version of KDE for about 1-1.5 years.
[05:16:54] * lloy0076 has nightmares of trying to convince kysococoa to refresh its caches when dynamically adding stuff to menus
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[06:06:40] <benignbala> I am new to opensolaris... I find that  cc has not been installed....it says 'language optional software not installed' what am I supposed to do?
[06:07:20] <Error_e^ipi> install sun studio
[06:07:30] <Triskelios> is there a build-time macro I can use to check solaris release number (or more specifically, there's a workaround I only want to apply for specific versions of sys/sysi86.h)
[06:07:31] <jamesd> or use  /usr/sfw/bin/gcc
[06:07:58] <benignbala> ok.. i will try now....thanks.....
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[06:08:42] <benignbala> jamesd: yes.. it works ..... great... thanks....
[06:08:51] <benignbala> jamesd: and one more doubt....
[06:09:26] <benignbala> I am basically a GNU/Linux user.....So i am not used to solaris commands and methods....
[06:10:02] <dlg> is your full stop key stuck?
[06:10:07] <benignbala> can someone please help in telling how to modify the path variable so that it includes /usr/sfw/bin
[06:10:17] <jamesd> we will try and not hold that against you ;-)
[06:10:18] <dlg> benignbala: depends on your shell
[06:10:24] <Error_e^ipi> .profile
[06:10:29] <benignbala> dlg: sorry...ocassionally it gets stuck.....
[06:10:38] <dlg> if you're using a ksh type thing you can cheat by going export PATH=$PATH:/usr/sfw/bin
[06:10:56] <MikeTLive> if someone starts singing that telegram im gonna die laughing
[06:11:21] <benignbala> dlg: I am using bash shell.
[06:11:30] <dlg> there you go then
[06:11:38] <lloy0076> benignbala: The default paths are set in various places depending on what shell you are using. You might look at man bash AND search for "bashrc".
[06:12:04] <benignbala> lloy0076: Oh. same as GNU/Linux?
[06:12:09] <Triskelios> \/etc/default/login is the place to set PATH globally
[06:12:12] <lloy0076> benignbala: Confound.
[06:12:24] <lloy0076> benignbala: Bash on Solaris is almost the same as bash on GNU/Linux.
[06:12:39] <lloy0076> benignbala: It's probably even the same source tree will build both :P
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[06:12:54] <benignbala> Triskelios: lloy0076 : Thanks.
[06:17:28] <benignbala> Do we have emacs in solaris or sould I have to install from source?
[06:18:08] <g4lt-U60> benignbala, did yuou do a find first?
[06:19:01] <benignbala> hmm no... but I am quite new to opensolaris.So not sure of commands.
[06:19:02] <lloy0076> benignbala: Xemacs is included in the SUNWspro that I have.
[06:19:16] <lloy0076> benignbala: "find" works fairly much the same as in Linux too btw.
[06:19:21] <benignbala> lloy0076: But, for me,SUNWspro has not got isntalled
[06:19:30] <benignbala> pkginfo says so.
[06:19:45] <lloy0076> benignbala: If you're looking for the sun stuido compilers, though, it will install when you install them :)
[06:20:08] <benignbala> lloy0076: Oh.thanks.I will try using 'find'
[06:20:27] <benignbala> lloy0076: I don get you. I need to manually install all those?
[06:20:54] <lloy0076> benignbala: Sun Studio compilers can be downloaded for free from Sun or its mirrors.
[06:21:46] <benignbala> lloy0076: Oh.Ok, i will try and do it. And one another help, can I install softwares from sources that I used with GNU/Linux?
[06:22:00] <lloy0076> benignbala: For the most part, yes.
[06:22:28] <lloy0076> benignbala: I find that I have to fiddle with my PATH settings to make sure that "gcc" is in the path; also GNU make and Sun's make aren't always compatible with each other...
[06:22:38] <benignbala> lloy0076: And what is the equivalent of the GNU make in solaris.
[06:22:45] <lloy0076> benignbala: So occasionally a plain "make blah" will fail mysteroiusly; use "gmake" for GNU stuff.
[06:23:08] <lloy0076> benignbala: (gmake and lots of gnu things are in /usr/sfw/bin - you should take a look there :P)
[06:23:11] <benignbala> Oh.ok. thanks..... I will try gmake.thanks....
[06:23:26] <benignbala> lloy0076: thanks a lot. will try now..
[06:24:30] <lloy0076> benignbala: There are some horridly broken GNU things that won't take the hint that make should be invoked as "gmake" btw. If that happens and "gmake" crashes saying it can't find "make" then I generally symlink like this: ln -s /usr/sfw/bin/gmake /usr/sfw/bin/make and it seems to work better.
[06:24:56] <jmcp> lloy0076: have you ever tried setting the env var MAKE=/usr/sfw/bin/gmake ?
[06:25:15] <lloy0076> jmcp: No, I found a solution that worked for me and didn't look further...
[06:25:16] <lloy0076> :)
[06:25:33] <jmcp> using an env var is preferred over mucking with the contents of your filesystem
[06:26:15] <lloy0076> jmcp: I agree - however when I was using gmake, I could either: a) figure the right way b) fix it fast and make money to EAT :(
[06:26:16] <lloy0076> heh
[06:26:23] * jmcp shrugs
[06:27:11] <richlowe> the issue with using $MAKE is that autoconf stuff doesn't always respect it pleasantly, if it wasn't set at the time you run ./configure
[06:27:27] <richlowe> (ditto with $INSTALL), so if you're forgetful, you get to do everything twice.
[06:27:49] <richlowe> though yeah, screwing with the filesystem is the worse solution.
[06:27:54] <richlowe> *especially* screwing with the delivered filesystem.
[06:28:36] <richlowe> jmcp: what's the synopsis of 6513290?
[06:29:19] <jmcp> richlowe: system/dbus:default failed fatally while booting a zone
[06:29:52] <richlowe> closed duplicate of 6466379?
[06:29:57] <benignbala> And can I mount ext3 filesystem  based GNU/Linux here on solaris?
[06:30:14] <benignbala> I need to access the sources file from there.
[06:30:55] <benignbala> i have a few sources like emacs, and a few other goodies.
[06:31:09] <jmcp> richlowe: yup
[06:31:38] <richlowe> jmcp: thanks.
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[06:51:46] <trs81> lloy0076: are you at lca?
[06:51:59] <lloy0076> trs81: No, I'm at home in South Australia.
[06:52:29] <lloy0076> I'm planning to go to next year's.
[06:52:42] <lloy0076> *and* I'm threatening to host an OpenSolaris mini-conf.
[06:52:43] <trs81> MAKE=gmake works for me btw
[06:54:41] <g4lt-U60> of course, so does rm /usr/sfw/bin/make && rm /usr/sfw/bin/gcc ;P
[06:56:39] <trs81> just don't try and use gnu ld ... all the compilers have sun's ld hardcoded in
[06:57:24] <lloy0076> trs81: I know.
[06:58:03] <lloy0076> trs81: I've encountered a few linker glitches and still can't get svn-1.4.X to compile properly.
[06:58:10] <lloy0076> heh
[06:58:13] <trs81> lloy0076: oh, there is a way around it
[06:58:32] <lloy0076> trs81: Yeah, install Eclipse in Centos 3.8 and use that instead :P
[06:59:05] <trs81> no, make a path like so: libexec/gcc/sparc-sun-solaris2.11/3.4.3/collect2
[06:59:30] <lloy0076> trs81: On an x86 based system?
[06:59:41] <jmcp> lloy0076: note the word "like"
[06:59:44] <trs81> I only have sparcs
[06:59:45] <jmcp> as in "similar to"
[07:00:03] <lloy0076> And where's that "parented" from...
[07:00:06] <trs81> module_autogenargs['gamin'] = autogenargs + ' LD=/usr/sfw/bin/gld GCC_EXEC_PREFIX=/space/gnometinderbox/bin/gcc-fuxed/lib/'
[07:00:09] <jmcp> lloy0076: so for you on x86, you'd use something like       libexec/gcc/i386-sun-solaris2.11/3.4.3/collect2
[07:00:50] <trs81> the full path is /space/gnometinderbox/libexec/gcc/sparc-sun-solaris2.11/3.4.3/collect2
[07:00:59] <trs81> gcc-fuxed/lib doesn't need to exist
[07:01:25] <lloy0076> Ok, I think I'll be able to find that.
[07:01:47] <lloy0076> It will be nice when my GNU tools suddenly stop doing weird linking errors inevitably AFTER spending a long time building.
[07:01:48] <lloy0076> *heh*
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[07:31:39] <jmcp> Gman: hi! how was LCA today?
[07:31:58] <Gman> good fun
[07:32:03] <Gman> tonight is the google conference party
[07:32:48] <jmcp> nice
[07:40:20] <rodrickbrownn> what's the conf about ?
[07:40:34] <Error_e^ipi> google
[07:40:37] <Error_e^ipi> duh
[07:40:50] <rodrickbrownn> no idiot
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[07:50:10] <nprice> say I accidentally renamed root to Root in /etc/passwd and rebooted, what can I do?
[07:51:35] <rodrickbrownn> boot into single user mode and fix it
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[07:51:46] <rodrickbrownn> ok> boot -s cdrom
[07:51:47] <richlowe> login as Root and fix it?
[07:52:01] <rodrickbrownn> boot into single user mode
[07:52:08] <nprice> won't let me in in single user mode
[07:52:11] <richlowe> and join the ranks of people who accidentally found out what ~ does in vi? :)
[07:52:12] <rodrickbrownn> mount the partition containing your /etc file system
[07:52:12] <nprice> won't let me log in as Root
[07:52:14] <rodrickbrownn> modify it
[07:52:17] <rodrickbrownn> then reboot
[07:52:22] <nprice> yeah gonna do that
[07:52:47] <nprice> well rather, gonna have someone local to the machine do that
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[07:53:11] <Jarkandu> Hi all
[07:53:22] <Jarkandu>  I have a question
[07:53:54] <rodrickbrownn> sit back while we probe your brain
[07:53:57] <rodrickbrownn> try not to move
[07:55:03] <Jarkandu> How can I get my C compiler to create executables?
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[07:55:42] <maverickbna> what are you using
[07:55:43] <loke_> Jarkandu: well, first you install Sun Studio
[07:55:45] <maverickbna> gcc or sun studio
[07:55:58] <nprice> sun studio can work with gcc now too :)
[07:56:11] <loke_> nprice: well... there is very little point
[07:56:26] <Jarkandu> I'm just trying to get ./configure to work.
[07:56:33] <loke_> nprice: the only time gcc has to be used is if you have to compile some code that uses the gcc inline assembly
[07:56:45] <nprice> why use an inferior compiler, right
[07:56:46] <nprice> hehe
[07:56:55] <loke_> Jarkandu: install Sun Studio, then make sure that you have /opt/SUNWspro/bin in your path
[07:57:08] <loke_> Jarkandu: then it'll work
[07:57:17] <loke_> Jarkandu: oh, you also need /opt/ccs/bin in your path
[07:57:19] <Jarkandu> OK. Thanks. God bless.
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[07:58:02] <rodrickbrownn> well i'm off to bed so tired.
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[08:26:31] <onbot> commit by mp204432:  4485000 *sum* may return success after encountering errors
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[09:25:28] <jteo> it' interesting how someone knows how to use emacs, but can't be bothered to google.
[09:26:39] <asyd> is that a real question ? ;p
[09:27:39] <jteo> asyd: just a sarcastic comment. ;)
[09:27:43] <lloy0076> Maybe they forgot the google shortcut was ^C^XGg+ESC+LAT+F all at once.
[09:28:27] <Error_e^ipi> heh
[09:28:29] <Error_e^ipi> emacs...
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[09:40:02] <Cyrille> Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift ;-)
[09:41:25] <Error_e^ipi> all at the same time
[09:41:30] <Error_e^ipi> while dragging the mouse
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[09:41:51] <Error_e^ipi> just to occupy that other hand
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[09:56:15] <gallium> hi Cyrille, met PeterA on the weekend... so when are you coming over to visit us? :-)
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[09:58:05] <Cyrille> Hi gallium, I don't know yet, though that'd be nice (never been to that side of the world ;-))
[09:58:27] <gallium> Cyrille, Its not as scary as you may think.
[09:59:02] <Error_e^ipi> only vicous poisonous spider spitting snakes
[09:59:27] <Error_e^ipi> which like to climb in to houses & beds
[09:59:33] <gallium> Error_e^ipi, true, we have politicians as well... :-)
[09:59:35] <Cyrille> I thought it was the other way around... Or do the snakes spat by the spiders spit smaller spiders in turn?
[09:59:38] <Error_e^ipi> heh
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[10:02:38] <gallium> Cyrille, peter was showing me all the nice stuff you have been working on... seems you have quite a reputation.
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[10:03:39] <Cyrille> gallium: I do? Can I now officially wear a "Big in Australia" T-shirt? ;-)
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[10:13:28] <gallium> Cyrille, absolutely!
[10:16:15] <jteo> i sense celebrity status.
[10:19:40] <gallium> hero status. Cyrille is THE-POC.
[10:20:15] <Cyrille> :-)
[10:20:42] <Cyrille> good one.
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[10:27:09] <gallium> :-)
[10:27:39] <gallium> Cyrille, so when is it oss ? ;) </pressure>
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[10:30:17] <Cyrille> gallium: whenever form 143-B has been filed so that we can get form 98-565-z, which will provide us access to the form for the filing of the triplicate document which will then only have to be stamped by three head of states and one particle physicist before the first part of the process is finished.
[10:30:19] <Cyrille> ;-)
[10:33:00] <jteo> i have no idea what you're famous for.
[10:33:01] <jteo> ;)
[10:35:03] <gallium> Cyrille, and after that I pass it through a black light scanner to ensure the triplicate has not been forged, hand it to the FBI for a certified copy and get Jonathan Schwartz to wave the olympic torch past India, Hungary, England and Russia before burning the evidence?
[10:35:29] <Cyrille> I see you're familiar with the process.
[10:35:48] <Cyrille> jteo: that's most likely because I'm not actually famous :-)
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[10:40:27] <Fish-> hello
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[10:46:59] <gallium> hello
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[11:24:06] * Gr|ffous greets all of #opensolaris
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[11:32:16] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: howdy
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[11:34:18] <Gr|ffous> how are you jmcp?
[11:34:26] <jmcp> fair-to-middling
[11:34:33] <jmcp> it's a warm evening here in Sydney
[11:34:42] <Gr|ffous> 18 degree here
[11:35:07] <Gr|ffous> Can I bother you with a gcc question? (easy I hope)
[11:35:47] <jmcp> you can ask, sure. I might not know the answer though
[11:36:14] <Gr|ffous> of course you will, after my mplayer effort a few days ago, you are my go-to guy ;)
[11:36:19] * jmcp chuckles
[11:36:28] <jmcp> you've got such low standards :)
[11:38:08] <jmcp> and you can flatter me any time, btw
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[11:38:53] <Gr|ffous> sooo, I'm still stuffing around with gcc and mplayer - it works with the sfw gcc 3.4.3, so I thought I'd push my luck and try with gcc 4 (blastwave). Compiling works, but it seems to be having all manner of library issues. using the same ./configure, but just a different $CC I'm getting quite different results and header/library mismatches. What do you suppose the cause of this is? I'm assuming it's something to do with
[11:38:54] <Gr|ffous> gcc itself having a search order of it's own, and the blastwave one is favouring the /opt/csw/lib over /usr/lib. Would this be right?
[11:39:04] <Gr|ffous> heh, will do :)
[11:39:18] <jmcp> which headers and libs are being mismatched?
[11:39:29] <jmcp> do you have the same CFLAGS and LDFLAGS settings as before?
[11:40:20] <Gr|ffous> libpng was the primary trouble maker
[11:40:37] <jmcp> which was being found?
[11:40:51] <Gr|ffous> I don't have either of those set, should I?
[11:40:58] <Gr|ffous> I'll run it again, one sec
[11:41:42] <jmcp> I've got SUNWpng, contents of which live in /usr/lib/libpng* and /usr/lib/amd64/libpng*
[11:41:50] <jmcp> which SX rev are you running?
[11:41:58] <Gr|ffous> 54
[11:42:07] <jmcp> full install?
[11:42:28] <Gr|ffous> yup
[11:42:47] <jmcp> then you should see a /usr/bin/libpng12-config
[11:42:54] <jmcp> what does your config.log show for libpng?
[11:43:06] <jmcp> ah .. do you have LD_LIBRARY_PATH set as well? if so, to what?
[11:43:07] <Gr|ffous> I can work around the issue by explicitly giving the correct path (/usr/lib/), it's just odd that I need to with one compiler, and not enough.
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[11:44:21] <Gr|ffous> not LD set, I learnt that was evil early :)
[11:44:26] <Gr|ffous> http://rafb.net/p/Zn0RNG10.html
[11:44:31] <jmcp> ta
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[11:45:04] <tomww> Gr|ffous: why not reusing work from the spec-files-extra repositry on sourceforge? There is a fine .spec file in RPM-Style. You have the option to a) use the whole build-envoronment or b) lok for the modificationes needed to compile mplayer on solaris.
[11:45:21] <jmcp> nah, that's the configure test program. what does the actual logfile from configure say?
[11:45:36] <Gr|ffous> working version with gcc3: http://rafb.net/p/wVbkgM70.html
[11:45:43] <Gr|ffous> oh..
[11:46:01] <Gr|ffous> that was the configure.log?
[11:46:12] <jmcp> yes
[11:46:35] <Gr|ffous> tomww, I'm sorry that's well above my head, what does that mean exactly?
[11:46:58] <Gr|ffous> jmcp, sorry, what are you after?
[11:47:34] <jmcp> open up config.log/configure.log in a text editor, go to the end and search backwards to where the libpng tests are done
[11:47:49] <tomww> Gr|ffous: The Gnome-Desktop fr Solaris people have set up a very nice environment for building software on X86 and sparc.
[11:47:52] <jmcp> that should give a better idea of what is being searched for
[11:48:15] <Gr|ffous> yeah, that's it jmcp
[11:48:57] <tomww> the basic tools are pkgtool and pkgbuild, the compilers gcc and sunstudio, and a big repository of rpm-spec files which control building the software (+ downloading)
[11:49:20] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: you should also see what is picked up with this command:: $ grep define.*PNG_LIBPNG_VER_STRING `find /usr/include -type f`
[11:49:38] <oxygene> tomww: very nice environment iff you like .spec files...
[11:50:23] <Gr|ffous> /usr/include/firefox/png/png.h:#define PNG_LIBPNG_VER_STRING "1.2.7"
[11:50:23] <Gr|ffous> /usr/include/libpng12/png.h:#define PNG_LIBPNG_VER_STRING "1.2.8"
[11:50:24] <tomww> I like spec-files not too much, but I like them much more, then reinventig wheels every day :-) (thats my view)
[11:50:27] <jmcp> heck ... when I run " grep define.*PNG_LIBPNG_VER_STRING `find /usr/include /opt/csw/include /usr/sfw/include /usr/X11/include -type f` " I get hits  in /usr/include/libpng12/png.h, /usr/include/firefox/png/png.h, /opt/csw/include/libpng12/png.h and /opt/csw/include/mozilla/png/png.h
[11:51:12] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: how large is your config*.log file?
[11:51:14] * damienc loves pkgtool/pkgbuild/spec-files
[11:53:31] <Gr|ffous> Here's the lot (hopefully): gcc3: http://rafb.net/p/Uv3j5E61.html   gcc4:  http://rafb.net/p/DhAQ0l66.html
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[11:54:59] <jmcp> ta much
[11:55:42] <jmcp> nope - gets to 2972 lines and ends
[11:56:05] <Gr|ffous> this configure command works (note the extra inc for libpng :) ./configure --with-extraincdir=/usr/X11/include:/usr/include/libpng12 --disable-cdparanoia --disable-libcdio --prefix=/opt/jw --enable-gui --disable-faac
[11:56:30] <Gr|ffous> I'm just wanting to understand why this is different with the other gcc. I take that's not normal behaviour then?
[11:56:38] <jmcp> correct, it's not normal
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[11:57:20] <Gr|ffous> the snippet I pasted earlier includes the png failure, do you need further surrounding text?
[11:57:45] <jmcp> just a sec....
[11:58:25] <jmcp> oh btw, if you want to be able to debug on amd64 and are using gcc, don't ever use -fomit-frame-pointer. it *really* screws you
[11:58:42] <Gr|ffous> http://www.griffous.net/code/configure.log
[11:59:37] <Gr|ffous> what's the best way to stop it autodetecting that? edit the config.mak file?
[12:00:27] <jmcp> a configure.in file, iirc
[12:02:33] <Gr|ffous> is gcc -print-search-dirs of any significance?
[12:02:47] <jmcp> probably is
[12:02:48] <Gr|ffous> or rather differences between them?
[12:02:57] <jmcp> I'd figure s
[12:02:58] <jmcp> o
[12:03:25] * jmcp pulls down gcc4 ....
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[12:04:05] <Gr|ffous> oh, don't trouble yourself over this too much
[12:04:10] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: was this a fresh install of snv_54 or an upgrade?
[12:04:35] <Gr|ffous> this was a fresh install, but an older /export/home - if that matters
[12:05:04] <jmcp> it shouldn't matter
[12:05:24] <jmcp> I just saw the gcc fixheaders script message though, and wondered
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[12:07:30] <oxygene> tomww: I reinvented that particular wheel exactly once - most packages (autoconf'd, portable ones) take me 5 lines of configuration to build, three of them metadata
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[12:14:22] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: ok, so a quick test with csw gcc4, csw gcc3, sfw gcc3 and studio 11 shows that csw gcc4 is picking up png.h from /opt/csw/include/libpng12/png.h whereas the others are picking it up from /usr/include/libpng12
[12:14:25] <jmcp> which we knew
[12:14:30] <jmcp> but now we've got some data points
[12:15:07] <Gr|ffous> sigh, quick alright. You don't want to know how long that took me to do... ;)
[12:16:11] * Gr|ffous offers gold and silver for jmcp's bash_history... though I'm better you're using something better then bash huh?
[12:16:18] <jmcp> nope, I'm using bash
[12:16:38] <jmcp> I used to be a diehard ksh user, but when I came across a f*ng annoying bug with terminal widths, I switched
[12:17:11] <Gr|ffous> ah, good to know it's not just linux refugees using bash then!
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[12:18:13] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: so what is in your shell's environment?   output of /usr/bin/env to pastebin please ....
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[12:18:31] * Gr|ffous spills his dirty secrets
[12:19:55] <Gr|ffous> http://rafb.net/p/fcsPq088.html
[12:20:04] <jmcp> ta
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[12:24:23] <cmihai> This is just wrong
[12:24:29] <cmihai> Why the hell can't I grep a file?
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[12:25:10] <cmihai> I can cat it and it shows right, but everything else is foobar
[12:25:32] <Gr|ffous> pass, sounds wrong alright
[12:26:46] <darrenm> cmihai: you an error message ?
[12:26:59] <darrenm> s/you an/got an/
[12:27:06] <cmihai> darrenm: no man, it's weird.
[12:27:13] <cmihai> l.txt: MPEG 1.0 Layer I, 160 kbit/s, 48000 Hz stereo
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[12:27:21] <cmihai> It shows a binary. Cat cats it fine
[12:27:23] <cmihai> But I can't grep it.
[12:27:30] <darrenm> you are trying to grep a binary file ?
[12:27:59] <Cyrille> are you sure cat shows everything of it?
[12:28:04] <dlg> sure there's not crazy escapes between all the characters?
[12:28:05] <cmihai> Yup.
[12:28:10] <cmihai> dlg: there are.
[12:28:11] <dlg> cat -v might show you?
[12:28:11] <darrenm> is it actually a binary file or a text file ?
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[12:28:24] <cmihai> cat -v looks like: ^@S^@a^@t^@,^@ ^@N^@o^@v^@ ^@1^@1^@ ^@2^@0^@0^@6^@ ^@0^@2^@:^@2^@
[12:28:31] <darrenm> it is a binary file
[12:28:32] <cmihai> cat looks like ubject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sende
[12:28:33] <darrenm> RTFM grep(1)
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[12:28:50] <darrenm> The first sentance says: "The grep utility searches  text  files  for  a  pattern  and prints  all lines that contain that pattern."
[12:28:56] <darrenm> note that it says "text files"
[12:29:10] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: time to hit google
[12:29:11] <cmihai> It should be a bleeding text file.
[12:29:26] <darrenm> but it isn't and cat is showing you that it isn't
[12:29:49] <darrenm> try strings file | grep pattern
[12:29:50] <cmihai> So how does a simple "cat" make it look right?
[12:29:59] <cmihai> I tried strings, it's just garbage.
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[12:30:05] <Gr|ffous> is that what strings(1M) is for?
[12:30:14] <jmcp> cmihai: dump it with "od -c $file|less"
[12:30:20] <darrenm> by default cat omits non printable chars
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[12:30:27] <darrenm> using -v makes them visible
[12:30:54] <darrenm> you said here:  (11:27:13) cmihai: l.txt: MPEG 1.0 Layer I, 160 kbit/s, 48000 Hz stereo
[12:31:01] <darrenm> is it actually an MPEG 1 file ?
[12:31:03] <cmihai> No.
[12:31:08] <cmihai> It's a TEXT FILE from a Windows machine.
[12:31:10] <cmihai> A log even.
[12:31:15] <cmihai> Supposed to be plain text.
[12:31:22] <jmcp> cmihai: dos2unix
[12:31:24] <andersmo> ah. ucs-2 unicode, maybe? =)
[12:31:26] <darrenm> how did it get to your Solaris machine ?
[12:31:39] <cmihai> CIFS
[12:31:44] <damienc> also, strings only looks in "initialised data space" - use "strings -a" to look everywhere in the the file.
[12:31:45] <andersmo> try playing with iconv.
[12:32:55] <darrenm> the -a should only be needed for ELF binaries - that IIRC is what it means by "object files"
[12:32:56] <cmihai> jmcp: dos2unix does nothing, same thing.
[12:33:53] <andersmo> cmihai: Try piping it through "iconv -f UCS2 -t UTF-8" and see if it makes sense?
[12:34:39] <cmihai> Ah, that was it.
[12:34:42] <cmihai> I hope
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[12:34:48] <damienc> darrenm: true.
[12:34:48] <cmihai> exp:            ascii text
[12:34:49] <cmihai> Yup.
[12:35:10] <cmihai> Thanks man :)
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[12:35:36] <cmihai> God, Windows has some scary shit :)
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[12:36:43] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: the search behaviour has definitely changed with gcc4, but i'm not ready to say that it's a bug
[12:37:02] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: contact the blastwave gcc4 maintainer and ask some questions
[12:37:31] <Gr|ffous> ok, thanks
[12:37:44] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: such as, "why are *system* include locations searched first with gcc4 but they are with gcc3?"
[12:37:45] <jmcp> :)
[12:37:47] <cmihai> LoL, it went from 300MB to 30MB
[12:37:49] <cmihai> after iconv
[12:39:48] <andersmo> cmihai: ucs-2 is NT's default internal representation of unicode strings, so when you see weird text files from windows machines, trying to decode them as ucs-2 is a good start. =)
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[12:42:41] <Stric> cmihai: one file converted from ucs-2 to utf-8?
[12:43:39] <cmihai> Yup.
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[12:44:44] <Stric> cmihai: That's not right then.
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[12:44:57] <cmihai> Stric: you sure?
[12:44:58] <Stric> cmihai: ucs-2 uses 2 bytes per char.. utf-8 uses 1 to 6
[12:45:08] <Stric> so at most, you should have gotten 300 -> 150
[12:45:13] <Stric> if it was ascii only
[12:45:24] <Stric> and at worst, 300 -> 900
[12:46:42] <andersmo> Stric: will utf-8 use as much as 6 characters to encode any of the codepoints ucs-2 can represent?
[12:46:45] <oxygene> except if every second code in the ucs-2 text was an escape code to switch planes
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[12:47:08] <cmihai> Stric: oh, you're right, it's 150MB
[12:47:11] <cmihai> From 300
[12:47:13] <Stric> ;)
[12:47:20] <jmcp> oxygene: focal planes?
[12:47:35] <andersmo> ah, escape codes and plane switching may cause that... but still, it would be one frickin' weird log file. =)
[12:47:38] <Stric> oxygene: oh, right.. and you could spray BOMs all over the place..
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[12:48:32] <raph_ael> hello
[12:49:15] <oxygene> hmm.. in ucs-2, even with encoding stuff outside plane 0, it would only be 4bytes/character - so 300->450mb, not 900
[12:51:26] <cmihai> I was fooled by ZFS compression :)
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[12:59:50] <cmihai> 3:1 compression, not bad.
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[13:23:17] <tomww> oxygene: if you compile you software on your own, do you package then into a solaris-package? this keeps you from overwriting solaris's own files without notice (just to mention one advantage of using the package-framework, pkgtool/pkgbuild deploy all software via packages)
[13:26:05] <oxygene> tomww: I build svr4 packages, yes
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[13:41:50] <andyshack> evening
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[13:50:25] <_syphilis_> is it possible to receive signals via an event port instead of sigaction() handlers?
[13:51:30] <_syphilis_> (alternatively, is it safe to port_send() from a signal handler?)
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[15:19:15] <_syphilis_> dbx: internal error: signal SIGSEGV (no mapping at the fault address)
[15:19:18] <_syphilis_> :(
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[16:19:32] <onbot> commit by Sowmini Varadhan:  6505896 ip's handling of DL_NOTE_FASTPATH_FLUSH no longer works
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[16:58:50] <Vanuatoo> Is it possible to format flash drive?
[16:58:50] <Vanuatoo> it's mounted under /media/somename
[16:58:59] <darrenm> rmformat
[16:59:08] <darrenm> and/or format -e
[16:59:26] <_syphilis_> hmm, this executable that crashes dbx also won't be read by gdb
[16:59:38] <_syphilis_> has anyone seen the gcc bundled with S10 emit incorrect debug symbols?
[17:08:56] <Vanuatoo> I'm in format menu, but it can't format because it's saying disk type is not set
[17:08:58] <Vanuatoo> it'
[17:09:20] <Vanuatoo> it tries to set disk type via format.dat or generic-scsi but fails
[17:12:30] <darrenm> what does format mean to you ?  ie what are you trying to do ?  slice it up in to smaller bits, put a new file system on it ?
[17:12:55] <Vanuatoo> I would like to format it
[17:13:05] <quants> aka new fs
[17:13:09] <Vanuatoo> Actually it's not seen by windows xp, because it has some strange label
[17:13:10] <nachox> he wants to create a filesystem in it
[17:13:25] <Vanuatoo> but solaris can operate on it
[17:14:02] <Vanuatoo> how to unmount the device, because as I see the label is not changed while it's mounted
[17:14:06] <Vanuatoo> ?
[17:14:13] <Vanuatoo> it's mounted under /mexia
[17:14:14] <quants> lol I can't believe someone uses both windows, and solaris? go figure
[17:14:29] <Vanuatoo> quants: a friend of mine is using it
[17:14:51] <darrenm> quants: why not ? lots of people do - some of the largest companies in the world have huge mixed Solaris and Windows deployments
[17:14:52] <quants> Vanuatoo: no both buddy I just found it amusing
[17:14:53] <nachox> i use both, in fact i have solaris 10 u2 and winxp dual booting in a laptop
[17:15:09] <quants> bother*
[17:15:23] <Vanuatoo> guys pls make
[17:15:24] <Cyrille> and they're not fighting on the hard drive while you're not looking? ;-)
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[17:15:38] <quants> Cyrille: LOL
[17:15:49] <Vanuatoo> it's funny but can anyone tell me how to unmount flash drive?
[17:16:10] <cap_> umount /wherever/it/is/mounted ?
[17:17:00] <Vanuatoo> it does not work
[17:17:00] <lasseoe> if it's managed by vold, shouldn't you use "eject" `?
[17:17:01] <Vanuatoo> :)
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[17:17:14] <darrenm> do you want a cli answer or a gui answer ?
[17:17:21] <darrenm> cli is eject
[17:17:26] <Vanuatoo> cli
[17:17:29] <darrenm> gui depends on what gui you use
[17:17:34] <Vanuatoo> eject ejects my cdrom
[17:17:49] <darrenm> in GNOME it should be: right click on icon and select unmount menu option
[17:18:13] <nachox> gnome makes it easy, yeah :)
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[17:18:47] <quants> eject /mountpoint
[17:19:31] <Vanuatoo> how to mount it manually?
[17:19:42] <lasseoe> like any other device
[17:19:49] <lasseoe> but tell vold to ignore rmdisk
[17:19:52] <Vanuatoo> what type to use?
[17:19:59] <Vanuatoo> what is the replacement of vfat?
[17:20:25] <nachox> in solaris it's called pcfs
[17:21:19] <darrenm> depending on which release it is it might not be vold - if this is snv_50 (IIRC) or higher it is no longer vold
[17:21:34] <lasseoe> oh yeah, it's HAL or something or other
[17:21:37] <Vanuatoo> it's snv_52
[17:21:50] <quants> snv?
[17:22:04] <nachox> in 5x it's hal and dbus, vold is dead, long live vold :P
[17:22:15] <nachox> quants: nevada
[17:22:29] <cap_> nachox, you wouldn't happen to know why it's called pcfs and not fat or vfat? (just curious)
[17:22:31] <quants> whatis snv
[17:22:38] <darrenm> Solaris Express build numbers start snv_  Solaris Nevada is what it means which is the code name for the in development release the OpenSolaris bits
[17:22:39] <lasseoe> Solaris Nevada
[17:22:40] <lasseoe> SNV
[17:23:08] <quants> ah
[17:23:30] <nachox> cap_: i have no idea, mybe ms holds the patent for the name fat ;)
[17:23:45] <cap_> yeah, possibly
[17:23:53] <quants> from arstechnica: "In a world... where DRM is liberal... there's only one fowl that's not foul... Chicken Little. And the Sky. Is. Falling."</movievoice>
[17:24:05] <lasseoe> nachox:maybe it's their trademark :P
[17:24:08] <lasseoe> certainly is fitting
[17:24:47] <darrenm> the name pcfs predates when most people knew that FAT filesystem by that name
[17:24:49] <oxygene> hmm.. more likely the name "pcfs" is historical.. before the vfat/fat32 drama, most pc users didn't actually know about the name "fat"
[17:25:12] <quants> dosfs?
[17:25:16] <darrenm> I remember it being pcfs back on SunOS 4.x
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[17:25:50] <lasseoe> Yep been pcfs as long as I can remember
[17:25:51] <darrenm> This was when "PC" mean't machine running DOS versus "Workstation" was a "UNIX" machine like a SPARCStation 3/60
[17:26:00] <nachox> pcfs is old, there is a project to enhance it iirc
[17:26:11] <jteo> those were the 80s.
[17:26:12] <cap_> darrenm, thanks for the history lesson :-)
[17:26:27] <quants> yeah pcfs is not fat
[17:26:49] <nachox> it actually is fat, very fat and slow ;)
[17:26:53] <quants> pee cee fs was classicly dos fs
[17:26:54] <darrenm> actually pcfs is too fat ;-)  It knows stuff it shouldn't know - like the difference between primary and extended partitions
[17:27:41] <cap_> there never was (in the dos world) anything called dosfs, it has allways been fat (even though the name did't mean much to the average user..)
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[17:28:13] <jteo> FAT32 was a marvel of a hack. particulary the LFN.
[17:28:14] <nachox> isnt that a flagrant vfs violation? shouldnt filesystems know a lot less?
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[17:29:23] <oxygene> jteo: LFN predates FAT32 by 3 years
[17:30:16] <oxygene> (otherwise fat32 probably still had a fixed-size, fixed-location root directory area)
[17:30:26] <jteo> oxygene: hmm? i was under the impression we only got LFN in FAT32/Win95
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[17:30:44] <oxygene> jteo: win95 didn't know fat32, win95b and win98 did
[17:31:34] <jteo> oxygene: ah. FAT16 was shipped with Win95. my bad. ;)
[17:31:55] <elektronkind> we need fat64 with logging and direct io
[17:31:56] <quants> "Whether the file system has an underlying storage device or not, file systems typically have directories which associate file names with files, usually by connecting the file name to an index into a file allocation table of some sort, such as the FAT in an MS-DOS file system, or an inode in a Unix-like file system. Directory structures may be flat, or allow hierarchies where directories may contain subdirectories. In some file systems, file names are s
[17:32:02] <oxygene> fat16 appeared in msdos4.0
[17:32:11] <oxygene> elektronkind: there's t-fat..
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[17:32:28] <quants> so pcfs is fat16? and vfat was fat32?
[17:32:57] <oxygene> vfat is fat*+lfn
[17:33:14] <jteo> FAT was created in 1977.
[17:33:31] <quants> under linux msdosfs is fat16
[17:33:34] <Darwin> hello
[17:33:41] <nachox> the wikipedia article on fat is quite extensive
[17:33:56] <sanky> How do I set-up my adsl-pppoe in opensolaris? any link/help will be really great
[17:34:00] <quants> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_system
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[17:35:57] <nachox> sanky: i used http://www.phildev.net/solaris/spppoe.html
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[17:38:23] <sanky> @nachox: when i run #pppd call _myisp_ only local and remote IP address is shown, but NO local/remote DNS address
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[17:50:57] <nachox> sanky: check the usepeerdns option in man pppd
[17:51:54] <sanky> @nachox: Thanks a Ton! Will check 'em out soon
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[18:21:30] <bougie> hello :)
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[18:24:12] <quants> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36975
[18:24:26] <quants> what are the down sides to thin clients?
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[18:27:25] <hile_> they suck if you need high end graphics
[18:27:43] <Stric> where "high end" could mean "any movie like thingie"
[18:28:47] <kirma> or rather, "anything large that changes it's shape at nice framerate"
[18:30:06] <kirma> (or do any mentionable thin clients provide even OpenGL acceleration?)
[18:30:47] <Stric> I suppose it depends on where you draw the "thin client" limit
[18:32:16] <nachox> you're also bound to network speed, can you deliver data as fast as you have to show it?
[18:32:24] <kirma> I don't count network computers (==diskless "workstations") as thin clients
[18:33:22] <kirma> what I'd really like would be complete desktop extension over 10GBASE-T networking, including uncompressed digital video
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[18:34:04] <kirma> but considering the amount of suitable cabling and XGMIIs is marginal at the moment, it's couple years too early to hope for such stuff.
[18:34:44] <kirma> that'd make truly quiet workplace much more feasible
[18:35:04] <kirma> and without compromising horsepower available to the user
[18:37:01] <oxygene> hmm.. how about having an mpeg1-style (ie. cheap) decoder in the client - on today's chips that should be doable.. and then encoding of fast-changing areas on the server side
[18:37:51] <kirma> the fact that even fiber solutions running on top of 10GE frames are not available surprises me, as it shouldn't be that hard to combine high-end FPGA/ASIC, ethernet hardware and couple other interfaces, and maybe some buffers memory.
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[18:39:15] <kirma> MPEG relies to some extent on good picks for keyframes, and that incurs latency
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[18:40:52] <kirma> more latency-critical codecs are most certainly available, but I haven't heard of them, and I'm pretty picky regarding the idea of whole display contents getting through something that's bound to be lossy coding at some point.
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[18:45:42] <oxygene> I think mpeg1 doesn't do those complex keyframe selections
[18:45:51] <oxygene> and I'm not talking about whole display contents
[18:48:13] <kirma> sure, I get the point
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[18:53:14] <quants> how do I configure my sound in snv_48?
[18:55:16] <cmihai> quants: try the open source drivers one might find on opensolaris.org or just use OSS
[18:55:22] <cmihai> www.opensound.com, works for anything really.
[18:55:29] <cmihai> And yes, it's free.
[18:56:59] <tomww> quants: what audio chipset do you have?
[18:57:08] <quants> maybe ali?
[18:57:34] <tomww> sometimes there is already support, but the pci-vendor/card-ids need to be bound to the driver
[18:57:43] <quants> k?
[18:57:43] <cmihai> Meh, just use OSS.
[18:58:51] <tomww> why oss, if there's a chance to have the bundled support :-) ?
[18:59:02] <quants> "I installed solaris on my box and I am not able to configure any sound. No default sound device has been found."
[18:59:17] <quants> he said my error too
[19:00:20] <nachox> oss worked really great in my dell laptop, i am very impressed
[19:01:04] * nachox watches the gplv3 thread grow and grow in osol-discuss
[19:01:41] * delewis wonders if hell has frozen over and whether or not pigs have been granted wings, yet.
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[19:02:33] <cmihai> tomww: it's usually better than bundled support in the first place
[19:04:31] <merlin_> mno.. ja som zrely ist domov. ako ty/
[19:04:47] <merlin_> sorry, bad window
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[19:06:11] <quants> tomww: 09:21 [freenode] -!- Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam
[19:06:14] <quants>           problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! (
[19:06:17] <quants>           http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )
[19:06:53] <quants> 09:20 <quants>             compatible: 'pci10b9,5451.10cf.112f.1' + 'pci10b9,5451.10cf.112f' +
[19:06:57] <quants>                'pci10cf,112f' + 'pci1
[19:07:00] <quants> 09:20 <quants> 0b9,5451.1' + 'pci10b9,5451' + 'pciclass,040100' + 'pciclass,0401'
[19:07:03] <quants> 09:20 <quants>             model:  'Audio device'
[19:07:57] <g4lt-U60> whiskey, tango, foxtrot
[19:08:14] <quants> "You might want to consider using something higher level and cross "
[19:08:17] <quants> platform though like libaudiofile (which is included in Solaris).
[19:08:26] <quants> what do they mean?
[19:08:59] <nachox> damnit, the dvd writter in the laptop went kaput
[19:09:09] <g4lt-U60> bummer
[19:09:24] <nachox> i'm glad it's not my laptop :P
[19:09:48] <g4lt-U60> that's why I have a usb2/firewire burner, just in case
[19:10:20] <g4lt-U60> of course, I also have the 411 CD, but that's becoming increasingly more useless as time passes
[19:10:56] <quants> hahaha 4Front "UNIX versions" : linux, solaris, freebsd, unixware, vxworks, aixl, openbsd, netbsd, openserver, hpux, lynxos, and tru64
[19:11:13] <nachox> what's so funny?
[19:11:44] <quants> scroll back to the opengroup discussion, and "UNIX"
[19:12:10] <nachox> i guess, i wanted the writer to bacup some data but there is nothing i can do about it now, except saving the iso somewhere else :P
[19:12:48] <g4lt-U60> nachox, see why you always have an external drive handy? ;P
[19:12:57] <nachox> i'm poor :P
[19:13:42] <g4lt-U60> I'm not exactly rich myself...
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[19:14:24] <nachox> plus it's not even my data, it's from the place i work at, nobody ever cared about making a backup from a server that has lots of data and no raid...
[19:14:51] <sahafeez> oh, well. let it crash and next time they will not be such cheap-asses
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[19:16:54] <oxygene> sahafeez: optimist.
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[19:28:25] <nachox> sahafeez: no chance, if the info in the server is lost there wont be a next time
[19:28:48] <sahafeez> hum. well point that out and get them to spring for the $$.
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[19:29:24] <sahafeez> so i was the IT director for a very large multi national, in their san diego operation. the company was in japan.
[19:29:44] <sahafeez> we had once ac unit an no backup
[19:30:09] <sahafeez> so i wrote a recommendation that we get a backup (this was in 1995)
[19:30:32] <sahafeez> the local president said no, to much money. i had him sign off on the letter that he read it.
[19:31:06] <sahafeez> so about 4 months later i come in and the ac had failed. it is 130 in the server room and $5m in equipment had taken a shit
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[19:31:57] <sahafeez> got called to jp to explain. walked in to the board room gave the ceo the letter. he said he was very sorry and to go back to my hotel and he would pick me up later for dinner
[19:32:16] <sahafeez> and then started to yell very loud at the local president
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[19:34:06] <nachox> i am not that lucky, this is a small startup, i'm pushing for some infrastrucure changes but there is really no money, and they know we need the hardware
[19:34:11] <alanc> oh boy - here comes more fun!   PSARC FastTrack [01/23/2007]: ksh93 Amendments
[19:34:26] <sahafeez> nachox: what os is the server and how much space?
[19:34:51] <nachox> sahafeez: a debian, with an 80gb disk
[19:35:04] <sahafeez> look can we finish this damn ksh93 thing. it is starting to bug ;)
[19:35:13] <nachox> the backup is 4, maybe 4 and a half gig
[19:35:24] <sahafeez> nachox: fuck get another ide 80gig for $50 and mirror it
[19:35:40] <sahafeez> if your startup cannot afford that then find a new job ;)
[19:35:51] <alanc> ksh93 won't be done until the entire OS is rewritten as ksh93 scripts
[19:36:16] <oxygene> oh, like minix3 - someone's rewriting parts of it in ocaml..
[19:36:25] <sahafeez> nachox: i have swapfiles larger then that
[19:36:34] <nachox> i like it here, 0 preasure, little hours, decent salary for a first job, i just have to deal with this crap every once in a while
[19:36:51] <alanc> just wait until you see dtrace rewritten in ksh93...
[19:36:55] <nachox> alanc: it's tedious but better that way
[19:37:14] <cmihai> ksh93 ftw!
[19:37:20] <alanc> roland already proposed adding ksh93 libshell to dtrace - that's just the first step
[19:37:41] <sahafeez> hard drives fail. i just had (like 30 mins ago) a new (3 week old) 320gb sata drive in a striped set go (it was temp storage)
[19:38:37] <quants> ouch
[19:38:40] <alanc> why does my "Open Magazine" e-mail newsletter have a feature on Vista deployment?   have they forgotten the "open" in their name meant open source?
[19:38:53] <quants> lol
[19:38:58] <nachox> alanc: is there a link to the psarc case?
[19:39:24] <alanc> not yet - it just got opened a couple of minutes ago - no materials filed yet
[19:39:33] <quants> how can I get longer passwd's in sol?
[19:39:47] <cmihai> quants: change the cypher
[19:39:53] <cmihai> It uses unix crypt by default
[19:40:00] <cmihai> Switch to blowfish or md5.
[19:40:01] <quants> directions?
[19:41:09] <cmihai> /etc/security/policy.conf
[19:41:15] <mrdeviant> edit /etc/security/policy.conf and adjust the CRYPT_DEFAULT line
[19:41:28] <cmihai> Be warned
[19:41:34] <cmihai> IT will break smc!
[19:41:39] <cmihai> (Like anyone gives a fuck)
[19:41:56] <cmihai> Some other legacy stuff might also break
[19:42:14] <quants> can they be fixed?
[19:42:47] <cmihai> Dunno, depends.
[19:42:57] <cmihai> If you run ancient commercial EOL stuff...
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[19:43:05] <quants> seems sol really needed to come out into the open long ago?
[19:43:21] <cmihai> Doesn't have anything to do with Solaris. It's the applications.
[19:43:35] <cmihai> But anyway, just change it, worry about that stuff later.
[19:43:43] <quants> it's just too legacy centric
[19:43:46] <cmihai> smc is already broken anyway.
[19:43:51] <cmihai> quants: that's the way it should be.
[19:44:03] <cmihai> Oracle and others don't update their apps every day
[19:44:06] <quants> cmihai: smc explain?
[19:44:15] <cmihai> Solaris Management Crap
[19:44:22] <cmihai> The broken admin interface.
[19:44:25] <quants> it's already broken?
[19:44:30] <oxygene> quants: "open" doesn't mean "things should break every 3 days" - unfortunately some other free operating system projects didn't see that particular memo
[19:44:31] <cmihai> Tried using it?
[19:44:49] <quants> not really?
[19:45:05] <quants> I had to set up rolebased whatever
[19:45:21] <cmihai> Hehe
[19:45:22] <cmihai> RBAC?
[19:45:25] <quants> yes
[19:45:36] <cmihai> Yeah, it's OK for adding users and stuff, but it's SLOW and breaks and god help us all
[19:45:54] <quants> I was gonna ask here later how to set it up by cli
[19:46:09] <delewis> uh, how you would add users anywhere else.
[19:46:16] <delewis> useradd/groupadd/etc.
[19:46:22] * quants snickers
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[19:46:35] <quants> vi /etc/passwd
[19:46:36] <cmihai> vi /etc/passwd
[19:46:37] * cmihai hides
[19:46:41] <cmihai> Heh
[19:46:46] <quants> beat you
[19:46:51] <cmihai> PS: Did I mention that's a terrible idea? :)
[19:46:55] <delewis> you might as well just 'ed'
[19:46:58] <delewis> use*
[19:47:03] <quants> blek
[19:47:03] <cmihai> You should at LEAST use vipw
[19:47:08] <cmihai> EDITOR=ed
[19:47:10] <cmihai> export EDITOR
[19:47:17] <cmihai>  /usr/ucb/vipw
[19:47:27] <quants> I like vim
[19:47:30] <dbrashear> i have a p3 running build 54. it has a promise pdc2026X in it, and i am having this bug: http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6414475
[19:47:51] <cmihai> vipw does some extra checks for you, like make sure you add a valid shell or don't fuckup root and lock yourself out. Always use vipw!
[19:48:19] <Stric> vimpw? :)
[19:48:24] <delewis> cmihai: root defaults to /sbin/sh if the default shell is invalid.
[19:48:38] <dbrashear> i applied the patch and rebuilt. i replaced only the ata driver in /platform/i86pc/kernel/drv/ata (built from build 54 source) and the kernel boots but basically goes into a reboot loop. before i debug this (the machine is *sloooow* apparently because of this) any suggestions?
[19:48:45] <cmihai> delewis: not on all systems.
[19:48:57] <delewis> cmihai: on Solaris that's the case.
[19:49:07] <delewis> and we are in a Solaris-oriented channel, hence my generality.
[19:49:22] <cmihai> Meh, not that one should go around changeing the root shell anyway.
[19:49:34] <quants> csh!
[19:49:37] <cmihai> Ugh
[19:49:40] <AbeFroman> ewww
[19:49:43] <delewis> I usually change it to /usr/bin/ksh
[19:49:44] <cmihai> ksh93 / zsh!
[19:49:51] <quants> aka Berkley shell
[19:50:03] <cmihai> Screw the Berkley sHELL
[19:50:06] <delewis> ed /.profile, a, set -o vi, ., w, q
[19:50:09] <quants> tcsh is the next best
[19:50:18] <cmihai> delewis: god, set -o vi!?
[19:50:25] <cmihai> The first thing I do is set -o emacs :P
[19:50:30] * delewis cringes
[19:50:38] <delewis> I prefer vi key bindings.
[19:51:06] <quants> so does every other quick+dirty admin
[19:51:23] <sahafeez> look you heathens. it is VI not VIM and BASH not this fancy KSH stuff ;)
[19:51:24] <cmihai> I prefer sane keybindings :P
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[19:51:46] <quants> vim TMK is gnu
[19:51:54] <quants> yer daft
[19:52:02] <cmihai> God I love the look on Linux user's faces when faced with sh and vi
[19:52:08] <cmihai> They go: COOL, I love vi!
[19:52:09] <cmihai> vi
[19:52:20] <cmihai> "HOLY SHIT, what's this, where are the colors, the keys, help!!!"
[19:52:21] <quants> vim is better
[19:52:41] <sahafeez> i am just waiting for when someone releases a bootable version of EMACS
[19:52:50] <cmihai> sahafeez: just add a bootloader to it
[19:52:53] <cmihai> Like an OpenSolaris kernel.
[19:52:57] <quants> csh is enough to eat most admins lunch
[19:53:19] <cmihai> Meh, csh is ok. tcsh even better. But a lot worse than ksh93 or zsh.
[19:53:20] <Stric> cmihai: some use Solaris/Linux/foo as "just a bootloader to emacs"
[19:53:27] <quants> anybody ever heard of perlshell?
[19:53:32] <cmihai> Yes, they're called the GNU Stallmans.
[19:53:36] <cmihai> They sing songs and stuff.
[19:53:46] <cmihai> quants: enough abominations for one day :)
[19:53:52] * Stric has seen RMS dancing, playing his flute..
[19:53:53] <cmihai> scsh is nice!
[19:54:07] <quants> tcsh*
[19:54:08] * cmihai seen him with a disk on his head, pretending he was Jebusx
[19:54:33] <hile_> I use zsh for interactive things
[19:54:37] <hile_> ksh for scripting
[19:54:44] <quants> tcsh is to csh, what vim is to vi
[19:54:59] <hile_> and root's shell is /sbin/sh on solaris w/ ksh on AIX
[19:55:01] <sahafeez> the web has gotten boring. i used to beable to go all day and find cool stuff to read/look @. now it takes like 30mins a day and you are done
[19:55:17] <quants> dtsh you mean
[19:55:44] <quants> I learned on AIX
[19:56:19] <quants> dtsh is Open Groups answer to ksh93
[19:56:37] <cmihai> dtksh is CDE's answer to GUI stuff
[19:56:40] <cmihai> It's really fun!
[19:56:53] <cmihai> Building GUI's in ksh.. now that's cool ::)
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[19:57:44] <quants> CDE is just too old
[19:58:00] <cmihai> Reall, that so?
[19:58:09] <cmihai> Compared to 70's sh and ksh88?
[19:58:23] <quants> I'd say SUN's has been the most updated
[19:58:34] <cmihai> Indeed, IMAP support in dtmail.
[19:58:39] <cmihai> And... no, wait, that's it.
[19:59:01] <quants> the stock CDE is just cruft
[19:59:06] <Stric> hile_: well, /bin/sh is ksh on AIX.. so not much option there ;)
[19:59:16] <alanc> don't forget making dtlogin look like something not stuck in 1988!
[19:59:28] <cmihai> I like that look!
[19:59:31] <Auralis> i love the look of dtlogin
[19:59:34] <alanc> of course, that didn't take much work
[19:59:38] <Auralis> it looks profssional and clean
[19:59:41] <Auralis> to the point
[19:59:55] <cmihai> Auralis: the new or the old?
[20:00:06] <quants> I like the new sol login better
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[20:00:21] <Auralis> the old of course, the simple wide slap over black
[20:00:26] <alanc> the last real CDE enhancements in Solaris were in the Solaris 7 updates, when they added the things like the workspace manager GUI
[20:00:29] <Auralis> not that fancy wavy pattern crap
[20:00:35] <cmihai> Yup.
[20:00:51] <cmihai> The new look is just.. heavy
[20:00:57] <quants> CDE is dead, long live CDE
[20:01:04] <cmihai> Too loaded, too.. bloated.
[20:01:07] <hile_> touch /etc/dt/config/C/styleModern
[20:01:12] <hile_> How are you Auralis?
[20:01:23] <Auralis> tired, bored and unmotivated
[20:01:29] <alanc> the mistake of changing the dtlogin gui was once marketing learned how easy it was, they wanted to do it more often
[20:01:54] <alanc> I think the current single blue wavy line is the 5th iteration since the plain grey box
[20:01:59] * quants laughs
[20:02:40] <hile_> alanc: i had to laugh at how we all hounded you when the thrust that (and the wavy instead of "Solaris' image on the first background) before 10 came out
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[20:03:13] <Auralis> as i said, the old style wide box i like, it its plain, to the point with no frills, it projects a professional image. "here the business starts"
[20:03:23] <quants> you know the only thing that creeps me out about using SXCR is all the logos to remind me it belongs to SUN
[20:03:34] <cmihai> Auralis: leave all hope ye' who enter here
[20:03:48] <cmihai> Hm.. that's not bad, I think I'll make it say that!
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[20:04:26] <quants> it's like working under AppleOS
[20:04:38] <cmihai> So?
[20:04:51] <cmihai> Would you rather look into a window?
[20:04:52] <cmihai> :P
[20:05:17] <cmihai> Or a big fat ugly penguin bastard?
[20:05:39] <quants> I wish BSD would evolve faster
[20:05:47] <cmihai> It does have ZFS now :)
[20:05:52] <oxygene> I'd like to look into a window that doesn't take up 10% of my computer's ram.. unfortunately, besides win3.11 and beos, this seems hopeless
[20:05:56] <cmihai> Gave ZFS a spin on FreeBSD 7.
[20:05:59] <cmihai> It's actually usable.
[20:06:02] <quants> maybe opensol will follow their dev model
[20:06:03] <cmihai> Also has DTrace. Sort of.
[20:06:41] <cmihai> oxygene: most people have more than 64MB of RAM you know :P
[20:07:05] <quants> how tore apart is opensol to sol? how much is missing?
[20:07:39] <cmihai> That's a really strange question.
[20:08:02] <oxygene> cmihai: oh, 64mb.. you know, that gnome systray in a default jds setup needs about that much memory.. 4 icons, 64mb.. something's wrong with that..
[20:08:21] <cmihai> oxygene: wait until you start some java app
[20:08:24] <cmihai> There goes 200MB
[20:08:28] <cmihai> Or Firefox
[20:08:53] <Auralis>  20890 barbie    273M  218M sleep   49    0   2:25:47 0.9% firefox-bin/7
[20:08:59] <cmihai> barbie...
[20:09:01] <oxygene> cmihai: actually, I have more value in netbeans5.5 than in nautilus (a cheesy desktop that's hidden behind fullscreen windows) - netbeans needs less
[20:09:19] <oxygene> cmihai: so.. seems like I should try java some more ;)
[20:10:41] <cmihai> 562 ttaserv   119M   63M sleep   59    0   0:03:54 0.0% java/32
[20:10:46] <quants> shrimp+barbie
[20:10:47] <cmihai> Got like 6-7 of these
[20:11:19] <cmihai> More in containers. So it's not really fun :)
[20:11:27] <sahafeez> rsync over a vpn from smb mount is very slow
[20:12:00] <richlowe> alanc: 6406920 is almost certainly duplicate of 6403612 (and thus 2136722)
[20:12:11] <Stric> oxygene: you talking about notification-area-applet ?
[20:12:47] <oxygene> Stric: and associated, yes (audio, pager)
[20:12:51] <oxygene> well.. simple solution: no jds :)
[20:12:58] <cmihai> CDE :]
[20:13:08] <oxygene> e17 here
[20:13:24] <Stric> oxygene: I count slightly less than 1.5MB for that one when you exclude libs the rest of the desktop use too
[20:13:25] <oxygene> though I'm looking at equinox desktop right now..
[20:13:30] <Auralis> Its time to bring the Amiga Workbench to unix
[20:13:43] <sahafeez> CDE is like that fat chick that you did but will not tell your friends about
[20:14:01] <whaq> sahafeez, what's her name?
[20:14:14] <lasseoe> ahaha busted :P
[20:14:31] <whaq> lol
[20:14:32] <alanc> richlowe: I'll add a comment to the bug suggesting that to the team
[20:15:23] <oxygene> Auralis: hmm... collecting all the good ideas from the various desktops (workbench, wps, beos tracker, windows, mac os) instead of only the last two.
[20:15:28] <whaq> hey cmihai, what's the catch of ZFS on freebsd?
[20:15:36] <Stric> whaq: freebsd :P
[20:15:47] <whaq> haha
[20:15:52] <cmihai> whaq: FreeBSD 7 (HEAD).
[20:16:05] <sahafeez> there is a good idea on the windows desktop?
[20:16:13] <richlowe> alanc: thanks
[20:16:34] <cmihai> OH, and the thing is on a perforce repo
[20:16:39] <cmihai> I hate that.
[20:16:40] <whaq> linux\bsd speaks more languages than solaris does, when you're in mixed environment (different filesystem, etc)
[20:16:54] <richlowe> alanc: you were complaining about your dtlogin hat, I figured I'd switch you into your "bugster implementation" hat and see if it faired better ;)
[20:17:01] <oxygene> sahafeez: no idea, but given how it's cloned by all the newer unix desktop, there must be something to it..
[20:17:06] <whaq> cmihai - reliable? 80% speed?
[20:17:12] <cmihai> whaq: reliable? HAHHAHAHAH
[20:17:13] <whaq> oh
[20:17:13] <cmihai> You nuts?
[20:17:17] <delewis> I found the "What's New in FreeBSD 7" list quite funny.
[20:17:34] <delewis> Solaris probably has 90% of that list implemented, and probably has had it implemented at least since Solaris 8.
[20:17:37] <sahafeez> oxygene: cannot think of what. if you really want a desktop done right - the workplaceshell on OS/2
[20:17:37] <whaq> cmihai - well, for read only operations? =P
[20:17:40] <delewis> large page support being one of them.
[20:17:43] <cmihai> Didn't I just say it's a porting effort? You get FreeBSD HEAD and the stuff from perforce repo
[20:17:52] <oxygene> sahafeez: yes, wps is really nice..
[20:17:58] <alanc> heh - bugster is fun today - I get to keep refreshing my query and seeing the number of bugs with RM=alanc decrease, since they're running the scripts today to mass reassign the X bugs to the new manager
[20:18:01] <cmihai> whaq: no, it works fine, performance is good, but it's not yet stable.
[20:18:02] <delewis> and then to see all the lackeys comment "Wow, that's cutting edge, man" was even more hillarious.
[20:18:05] <delewis> :-)
[20:18:21] <Stric> sahafeez: except that it had insane memory requirements at that time
[20:18:23] <whaq> cmihai - wow that's cutting edge, man.
[20:18:23] <cmihai> delewis: don't be mean :P
[20:18:34] <cmihai> Picking on FreeBSD..
[20:18:38] <delewis> cmihai: it just goes to show that ignorance is bliss.
[20:18:40] <cmihai> Can't you see they're still growing :)
[20:18:51] <cmihai> Pick on someone your own size! Like HP-UX
[20:18:55] <delewis> cmihai: growing? I'm waiting for them to die.
[20:18:57] <sahafeez> at the time. i first ran 2.0 on a 486dx-33 with 16mb ram and a vlbus cirrus card
[20:19:03] <cmihai> Oh noes, BSD is DYING!
[20:19:06] <whaq> it's sort of like the midget neighbor that everyone says "is still growing.." yet he was born in the 70s
[20:19:07] <quants> nobody is THAT big
[20:19:15] <delewis> as they should've when the last official BSD was released, except OpenBSD which has made a number of innovations.
[20:19:24] <cmihai> whaq: more like 1992
[20:19:27] <delewis> FreeBSD is largely bound by x86 hardware advances and NetBSD is bound by the VAX>
[20:19:30] <delewis> take your pick.
[20:19:33] <whaq> ok ;) short n stout it is
[20:19:34] <cmihai> lol
[20:19:35] <Stric> sahafeez: 486-sx25 ;)
[20:19:36] <cmihai> delewis: no it's not
[20:19:47] <oxygene> sahafeez: though I found it hard to pinpoint the feature or design aspect that made it outstanding - I fear it would be a lot of work..
[20:19:52] <sahafeez> the install was like 20 5 1/4 floppies
[20:19:55] <delewis> cmihai: you'd be surprised how many developers are still screaming for the VAX port to be maintained.
[20:20:01] <cmihai> Oh, that's true
[20:20:08] <cmihai> OH no, Xorg breaks VAX support!
[20:20:11] <quants> nbsd is current for old net2 release
[20:20:12] <delewis> basically.
[20:20:13] <cmihai> Keep frecking XFree!!
[20:20:19] <delewis> and FreeBSD is just *now* getting large page support
[20:20:22] <delewis> want to take a guess why?
[20:20:23] <delewis> AMD64 has it!
[20:20:28] <cmihai> Duh
[20:20:31] <delewis> despite other platforms having it for years and years.
[20:20:34] <sahafeez> it was simple. the interface was 100% the same for each object. unlike windows. the templates for objects were great.
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[20:20:41] <alanc> VAXen had frame buffers?
[20:20:54] <delewis> alanc: of course
[20:21:02] <quants> fbsd really needs to take obsd's network stack
[20:21:05] <delewis> especially the microVAXen
[20:21:11] <whaq> do y'all x-perts have any good solution for maintaining ZFS snapshots? rotation\culling scripts and the like..
[20:21:19] <cmihai> Yeah, microVAX was a whole new arch then VAX.
[20:21:23] <oxygene> sahafeez: and that interface better has to be right, or you have 100% objects with a broken interface :)
[20:21:25] <cmihai> Lots of stuff from Z80
[20:21:39] <quants> z80 blek
[20:21:52] <cmihai> Well, Zylog helped develop it iirc
[20:22:18] <alanc> oh yeah, microVAXen
[20:22:21] <quants> might as well use 68040s
[20:22:41] * sahafeez liked z80's
[20:23:13] <quants> ARM is kewl now
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[20:23:39] <delewis> I hate libtool.
[20:23:41] <delewis> I really, really do.
[20:23:47] <quants> indeed
[20:23:50] <delewis> well, the whole autoconf toolchain in general
[20:23:52] <alanc> libtool is the devil
[20:24:04] <delewis> it assumes -mt is valid on Solaris no matter what compiler you're using.
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[20:24:11] <delewis> "You're on Solaris! You don't have GCC!"
[20:24:12] <alanc> libtool triples Xorg build time
[20:24:27] <quants> hahaha
[20:24:39] <cmihai> delewis: I don't? :P
[20:24:43] <cmihai> That's news to me
[20:24:46] <cmihai> I think I have 3
[20:25:12] <delewis> cmihai: I was forced to bull some GTK C++ binding crapload which won't build with Sun Studio
[20:25:12] <oxygene> hmm.. libtool speed: twice because it builds everything as pic, another time because it runs in bash (slowest shell ever)
[20:25:16] <delewis> and every single Makefile
[20:25:19] <delewis> has a nice -mt in it
[20:25:24] <cmihai> Hah
[20:25:25] <delewis> which is a valid Sun Studio option but not gcc.
[20:25:40] <delewis> s/bull/build/
[20:25:49] <cmihai> Kudos for pkgsrc.
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[20:26:20] <quants> in gcc isn't it -lmt?
[20:26:27] <delewis> well, the reason I'm building this massive crapload (a.k.a gtkmm, which requires glibmm, and about 5 other libs) is for the MySQL GUI tools, which someone wants.
[20:26:33] <delewis> quants: no
[20:26:47] <cmihai> delewis: mysql-adminstrator or something?
[20:26:52] <cmihai> Can't he just run that from his Linux box?
[20:26:53] <delewis> cmihai: yes
[20:27:00] <delewis> and they both require dumb gtkmm libs
[20:27:05] <cmihai> (Naturally, I asume he runs Linux :P)
[20:27:11] <delewis> cmihai: he *wants* it on his Ultra 80 I'm setting up.
[20:27:17] <cmihai> Oh, right.
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[20:27:25] * delewis shrugs
[20:28:00] <quants> I can't remember where I saw -lmt from? was it qt?
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[20:28:11] <delewis> there's another crapload.
[20:28:15] <quants> lol
[20:28:25] * delewis wonders why people just can't abide by a standard and use Motif
[20:28:32] <cmihai> Hehe
[20:28:34] <quants> delewis: blek
[20:28:36] <delewis> don't tell me. I know.
[20:28:49] * quants pees on Motif
[20:29:18] <delewis> quants: say what you will, but I don't see myself going around and building a load of Motif libs to use a Motif application.
[20:29:32] * quants pees on Motif
[20:30:04] <quants> I typically rip depends out of stuff I don't want
[20:30:18] <delewis> uh, that's a no-go in this situation.
[20:30:26] <delewis> given the whole application depends on C++ GTK bindings
[20:30:33] <quants> lol
[20:30:36] <delewis> which gtkmm is kind enough *spit* to proide.
[20:30:45] <delewis> provide, rather.
[20:30:50] <cmihai> quants: what do you have agains Motif?
[20:30:55] <cmihai> It's simple, looks good and works.
[20:30:58] <ofu> do i have to use sds to mirror the thumper-rootdisks, or can i do hardware-raid on the controller, just like on x4200 and t2000?
[20:31:15] * delewis waits for cmihai to be shot down
[20:31:26] <quants> "looks good" oh man
[20:31:29] <delewis> saying Motif looks good is inviting that, though, I tend to agree.
[20:31:30] <delewis> see.
[20:31:47] <delewis> that took all of 1 second according to my timestamps.
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[20:33:57] * delewis waits for the "Motif looks like Windows 3.11!" statement.
[20:34:09] <sickness> LOL
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[20:34:15] <Stric> Motif looks like poo! .. but maybe that's the same thing ;)
[20:34:37] <sickness> at least it's light-weight-poo ;P
[20:34:46] <quants> diarea
[20:34:50] <cmihai> Looks a lot better then VUE to me
[20:34:53] <delewis> its about as correct as poo gets
[20:34:54] <Stric> oh joy ;)
[20:35:13] <cmihai> I'll take CDE/Motif look over VUE or xforms look any day :)
[20:35:36] <delewis> CDE does look nice on a flat panel, however.
[20:35:37] <quants> tomww: Warning: Driver (audio810) successfully added to system but failed to attach
[20:38:18] <quants> rm_drv not found?
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[20:42:08] <quants> delewis: gnome looks better
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[20:43:18] <delewis> Gnome annoys me for two reasons (1) customization (even editing menus is a PITA or impossible) and (2) lack of decent documentation
[20:43:29] <delewis> but why do you need documentation when you can't customize *ding*
[20:43:39] <quants> can I just vi /etc/driver_aliases to rm_drv?
[20:44:01] <quants> delewis: I use kde here
[20:44:12] <cmihai> 3Bleah
[20:44:13] <mv> gnome is really massive and on slower hw is unuseable...
[20:44:16] <mv> i prefer xfce
[20:44:29] <cmihai> xfce is a CDE clone anyway
[20:44:34] <quants> xfce is not bad
[20:44:38] <cmihai> Why settle for clones when you can have the real thing?
[20:44:42] <delewis> mv: slow hardware is quite different in the SPARC world.
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[20:44:51] <delewis> you'd be surprised how usable JDS is on say an Ultra 80.
[20:45:18] <mv> well, i've never had any sparc myself, so i can't say
[20:45:20] <quants> xfce is a modern clone of CDE
[20:45:31] <delewis> it cannot be a modern clone of CDE with GTK.
[20:45:34] * quants pats mv
[20:45:40] <quants> good job
[20:46:05] <quants> a clone can't lookalike?
[20:46:34] <quants> GTK is better than diareatif
[20:47:06] <delewis> quants: how much have you actually done with GTK?
[20:47:20] <quants> delewis: odd question?
[20:47:37] <delewis> if you've actually done development with it or are at least familiar with the architecture of it, then there's no possible way you can say its better than Motif.
[20:48:08] <quants> let's see openmotif zero dev projects...
[20:48:30] <cmihai> zero dev?
[20:48:31] <quants> you can't give that away
[20:48:39] <delewis> quants: do you know what the government uses?
[20:48:43] <delewis> Motif.
[20:48:55] <quants> oh there's brains at work
[20:48:59] <Stric> Is that positive or negative? :)
[20:49:04] <quants> lol
[20:49:30] <cmihai> quants: how long have you used UNIX?
[20:49:37] <delewis> Motif provides a consistent specification.
[20:49:47] <quants> oh crap a little more than 5yrs
[20:49:57] <delewis> and to anyone that values the lifetime of their applications, like the government, Motif is ideal.
[20:50:08] <quants> ok
[20:50:15] <cmihai> quants: and how was GTK back then?
[20:50:25] <cmihai> Or qt for that matter
[20:50:26] <Stric> It looked like motif :)
[20:50:32] <delewis> huh?
[20:50:37] <delewis> GTK 1.x did *not* look like Motif.
[20:51:09] <Stric> it was inspired by motif at least.. and in my eyes more similarities than differences
[20:51:30] <quants> I came into Linux about Red Hat 5.2/6
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[20:51:39] <Stric> and gimp 0.5 which used motif was butt ugly :P
[20:51:51] <Stric> 0.54 was the last motif version I think
[20:52:06] <cmihai> You mean lesstif?
[20:52:11] <cmihai> Or whatever the "free" clone is called :)
[20:52:22] <Stric> I compiled it against Sun Motif too
[20:52:42] <oxygene> cmihai: there's openmotif, too
[20:52:43] * delewis wonders what the qualifications for "ugly" and "pretty are"
[20:52:45] *** tsoome2 has joined #opensolaris
[20:52:57] <richlowe> delewis: "motif", "not motif", apparently.
[20:52:58] <Stric> delewis: beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.. ;)
[20:53:01] <quants> delewis: great question
[20:53:03] <richlowe> delewis: or did you not mean the ones being used?
[20:53:16] <delewis> sorry, but how "pretty" a windowing toolkit looks isn't a high criterion, IMO.
[20:53:29] <quants> delewis: you are alone
[20:53:37] <cmihai> oxygene: that is not "Free"
[20:54:23] <delewis> richlowe: :-)
[20:54:26] <quants> viva la phreeDOM
[20:54:35] <cmihai> FreeDOOM!
[20:54:38] <cmihai> (it sucks)
[20:54:58] <oxygene> cmihai: it's not? hmm.. *shrug*
[20:55:08] <cmihai> oxygene: it's not GPL
[20:55:21] <delewis> oxygene: no, OpenMotif is under one of the Open Group's licenses (I forget the title of it)
[20:55:27] <cmihai> Or whatever the GNU Stallmans consider free
[20:55:38] <delewis> I think the FSF considers it non-free, but I really don't care enough to check.
[20:55:48] * oxygene builds wine 0.9.29
[20:55:58] <cmihai> Well, there's a waste of time.
[20:56:03] <cmihai> whine
[20:56:04] <oxygene> let's see if x11drv get its -R/usr/X11R6/lib again
[20:56:44] <quants> be nice to reduce windows down to a compat lib
[20:58:10] <quants> can I just vi /etc/driver_aliases to rm_drv?
[20:58:12] <Stric> cmihai: btw, gtk2 was released 5 years ago :)
[20:58:35] <oxygene> hmm.. that virtualbox kernel module.. anyone feels like porting it? ;)
[20:58:58] <sickness> Stric: yeah, and was so full of bugs, incompatibilities, LD_SUX_CRAP that it was barely usable...
[20:59:09] <Stric> I know :P
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[20:59:27] <cmihai> And migrating apps from gtk1 to gtk2 was a PITA
[20:59:31] <sickness> oxygene: yeah, opensolaris *screams* for vmware-servers and the alike :')
[20:59:40] <cmihai> sickness: what?
[20:59:45] <cmihai> qemu :)
[20:59:46] <sickness> oxygene: at least we have qemu :)
[20:59:47] *** tsoome has quit IRC
[20:59:54] <sickness> cmihai: yeah, qemu is nice
[21:00:01] <cmihai> Don't underestimaate qemu :]
[21:00:20] <cmihai> Or branded zones ;]
[21:00:35] <sickness> but it's not fair that linux and even win32 can run vmware-server as a HOST, and not opensolaris with it's blazing ZFS filesystem backend :''')
[21:00:36] * Stric installed win95 on an ultra1 using bochs (where qemu has gotten some stuff from) many years ago..
[21:00:41] <cmihai> Or Christ, just VNC to something else.
[21:00:57] <Stric> it. was. not. fast.
[21:00:59] <sickness> cmihai: nope! I want all the options under solaris >:)
[21:01:03] <sickness> I don't want to vnc >:)
[21:01:04] <cmihai> Better yet, Tarantella!
[21:01:07] <cmihai> Yes you do!
[21:01:14] <cmihai> Sun Secure Global Desktop RULEZ!
[21:01:23] <oxygene> sickness: I have qemu with kqemu support in my package system.. it's not like that.. it's just that vbox seems to actually go somewhere
[21:01:41] <quants> all sol needs is a managment console for its VM tech
[21:01:50] <oxygene> sickness: of course, the kqemu module probably does the same as the vbox kernel module.. maybe it's possible to port vbox to use kqemu ;)
[21:02:00] <cmihai> quants: a what console?
[21:02:03] <cmihai> smc? brrrr
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[21:02:22] <cmihai> oxygene: wasn't aware kqemu works on Solaris.
[21:02:30] <cmihai> Actually, I was pretty sure it didn't.
[21:02:33] <quants> cmihai: try out vmware server
[21:02:42] <cmihai> Why would I do that?
[21:02:49] <sickness> oxygene: yeah, I know =(
[21:02:50] <cmihai> I've ran it since the betas.
[21:02:51] <sickness> :)
[21:02:58] <quants> it has a console that behaives like a kvm
[21:03:28] <quants> tomww: Driver (audioxp) not installed.
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[21:04:04] <quants> tomww: I vi'ed /etc/driver_aliases to tear out audio810
[21:04:13] <oxygene> cmihai: it's somewhere on opensolaris.org
[21:04:34] <quants> cmihai: it has a console that behaives like a kvm
[21:05:27] <cmihai> quants: yes, I know that.
[21:05:37] <quants> cmihai: you asked...
[21:05:40] <cmihai> I didn't.
[21:05:43] <sickness> oxygene: I did this crazy thing, remember? http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=15124
[21:05:46] <sickness> :P
[21:05:49] <sickness> ghgh
[21:05:56] <quants> 11:20 < cmihai> quants: a what console?
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[21:06:52] <oxygene> sickness: heh, nice one
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[21:07:05] <cmihai> quants: a management console is not the same thing dude
[21:07:23] <cmihai> 22:02 < quants> all sol needs is a managment console for its VM tech
[21:07:37] <cmihai> Would really make you think of Solaris Management Console.
[21:08:08] <sickness> isn't there that new web console?
[21:08:17] <sickness> it already has integrated the zfs web management thing
[21:08:31] <sickness> and it seems to be ready to take new facilities...
[21:08:32] <cmihai> sickness: I hope you don't mean Webmin :)
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[21:09:27] <quants> cmihai: that is what they call it
[21:09:51] <quants> cmihai: I see your point tho
[21:10:44] <cmihai> Right. But when you say Solaris Management Console you really think of SMC not VMWARE. And if they'd make one for containers, they'd probably make a SMC toolbox.
[21:10:52] <cmihai> (just to piss me off)
[21:11:00] <cmihai> Besides, all you really need to admin UNIX is ssh.
[21:11:06] <sickness> cmihai: nope, not webmin
[21:11:06] <cmihai> (and cfengine :P)
[21:11:22] <sickness> cmihai: that cacao thing, or how it is called...
[21:12:01] <cmihai> Well, there's an SMC web interface that says "this thing is disabled / doesn't work" and said that for years
[21:12:08] <cmihai> Not aware of anything else
[21:12:11] <sickness> http://www.sickness.it/zfshomeserver.png
[21:12:12] <sickness> this!
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[21:12:44] <Stric> "ZFS Administration" is mis-scaled :P
[21:13:09] <cmihai> zpool, zfs. What more is there to require a web management tool :)
[21:13:26] <quants> cmihai: I installed a system on the inet using vmware server + and iso netboot image
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[21:13:52] <Error_e^ipi> Stric: wtf is that?
[21:13:52] <quants> I don't think you can do that with ssh, or smc
[21:13:55] <Error_e^ipi> looks like glassfish
[21:14:04] <Stric> Error_e^ipi: .. what?
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[21:14:23] <Error_e^ipi> what sickness posted
[21:14:50] <Stric> looks like black/flux/blahbox.. dunno.. ask sickness?
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[21:16:22] <sickness> that webconsole it's integrated in sxcr
[21:16:57] <Error_e^ipi> neat, I've never seen it before
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[21:17:22] <Error_e^ipi> looks like glassfish console
[21:17:38] <Error_e^ipi> or "Sun ONE java system application server" or whatever marketing renamed it to
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[21:18:25] <cmihai> quants: eeek, Jab
[21:18:28] <cmihai> Jaba
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[21:18:43] <cmihai> Well, that looks completly useless :)
[21:20:39] <quants> cmihai: ?
[21:20:58] <sickness> look, more screenshots here: http://blogs.sun.com/talley/
[21:21:03] <cmihai> I meant sickness
[21:22:15] <cmihai> quants: you do that with ILOM / iLO and the likes.
[21:22:29] <cmihai> You can't netboot iso images on real machines with VMWARE anyway ;)
[21:22:36] <cmihai> And with Containers, there is no point.
[21:22:39] <sickness> lol: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/817-1985/6mhm8o5kj?a=view
[21:22:39] <sickness> :)
[21:24:00] * quants makes notes
[21:24:34] <quants> containers?
[21:25:26] <cmihai> Zones, whatever.
[21:25:35] <cmihai> What you called "Solaris VM tech"
[21:25:44] <cmihai> You don't actually boot any ISO's.
[21:25:58] <quants> yes, sometimes you do need to install containers remotely
[21:26:04] <cmihai> So?
[21:26:07] <cmihai> You can do that via ssh.
[21:26:12] <quants> ?
[21:26:12] <cmihai> Or telnet. Or whatever.
[21:26:13] <sickness> yeah
[21:26:21] <quants> interesting
[21:26:36] <sickness> that's true... zones are not booted like virtual machines ;)
[21:26:50] <sickness> it's a different thing :)
[21:27:02] <cmihai> A zone is a lot more like a FreeBSD jail or vserver / UML on Linux that qemu/vmware.
[21:27:16] <quants> is it or is it not vm tech?
[21:27:31] <cmihai> Erm.. have you actually used Solaris?
[21:27:50] <quants> cmihai: I'm getting there...
[21:28:32] <quants> I don't need a compat lib, or a chroot jail
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[21:29:11] <quants> we do all our testing on VMs for production ens
[21:29:14] <_syphilis_> when you try to debug a 64-bit executable with a 32-bit gdb, it provides the following informative error message: "process not stopped."
[21:29:15] <quants> envs*
[21:31:21] <quasi> http://blogs.sun.com/stevewilson/entry/solaris_container_manager
[21:33:55] <quants> wow
[21:34:14] <quants> I'm really learnign to like sol
[21:34:15] <Triskelios> _syphilis_: at least it tried
[21:34:41] <_syphilis_> well, it did better than dbx which segv's then eats all the ram dumping core in /tmp
[21:34:41] <cmihai> quants: it's actually NOT being a VM that makes Containers so cool
[21:34:57] <quants> cmihai: ?
[21:34:59] <cmihai> Having a zone that eats up 30MB of storage (on compressed ZFS) and 20MB of RAM running say Apache...
[21:35:13] <cmihai> With ALL The features of a Solaris full install..
[21:35:22] <quants> WOW
[21:35:27] <cmihai> And getting that up in 5 minutes
[21:35:34] <cmihai> Instead of installing the OS in the VM for hours...
[21:35:51] <quants> we never take that long
[21:35:58] <cmihai> Whatever, you get the idea.
[21:36:01] <lasseoe> quasi: that's also heavy-duty software :)
[21:36:09] <quants> but it sure uses a lot more resources
[21:36:20] <quasi> cmihai: 30M storage? clone it and it will take almost 0MB
[21:36:23] <cmihai> quants: not to mention the fact Oracle doesn't ask for licenses like it would for oyur VMWARE
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[21:36:37] <cmihai> quants: configs and storage
[21:36:42] <cmihai> content and stuff.
[21:36:52] <quasi> lasseoe: not that I would ever use the container_manager stuff
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[21:37:11] <lasseoe> quasi: or SunMC for that matter? :)
[21:37:14] <quants> so if I break smc I can't use this?
[21:37:39] <cmihai> Screw SMC
[21:37:47] <cmihai> It doesn't do anything you can't do by hand.
[21:37:53] <cmihai> Faster.
[21:37:56] <quants> k
[21:37:59] <quasi> lasseoe: actually, I've gotten as far as downloading SunMC - mostly to have a look at its mibs
[21:38:11] <quants> mibs?
[21:38:18] <quasi> snmp
[21:38:18] <lasseoe> quasi: it's big and clumsy, eats resources like nothing else
[21:38:33] <quasi> lasseoe: sure, I wasn't going to run it
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[21:38:43] <lasseoe> quants: don't confuse SMC with SunMC, they are two different things
[21:38:56] <quants> ok
[21:39:11] <sickness> I think that SunMC is not free...
[21:39:12] <quants> lasseoe: b/c I sure was
[21:39:26] <lasseoe> quants: that's quite normal.
[21:39:39] <lasseoe> sickness: for a single host I think it is
[21:40:19] <quasi> sickness: I was pretty sure it was free nowadays - as long as you don't want support
[21:40:20] <sickness> oh, that's more interesting...
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[21:41:08] <lasseoe> hm.. I think think they stil charge for it :)
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[21:41:54] <sickness> http://www.sun.com/software/products/container_mgr/get.xml
[21:41:57] <sickness> yeah
[21:42:25] <Error_e^ipi> lasseoe: sun charges for software?
[21:42:38] <lasseoe> Licensing
[21:42:38] <lasseoe> The entitlement(s) only need to be purchased in conjunction with a service plan when support is desired.
[21:42:46] <lasseoe> Error_e^ipi: more than you'd think
[21:43:03] <lasseoe> so I guess SunMC was made free.
[21:43:13] <lasseoe> most of the Java Enterprise Suite isn't free
[21:43:29] <lasseoe> contrary to what a lot of people think
[21:43:34] <cmihai> That screenshot you posted of SunMC...
[21:43:43] <cmihai> Did you mention it came with your SXCR?
[21:43:47] <cmihai> The ZFS one
[21:43:48] <Error_e^ipi> so i have pirated sun software on the CD's that sun sent me?
[21:43:56] <lasseoe> no
[21:43:57] * cmihai pokes sickness
[21:44:04] <lasseoe> it's free to download and evaluate
[21:44:31] <quants> it's already on my DVD?
[21:45:14] <comay> lasseoe: i believe java enterprise system is free (for use, that is - support is extra)
[21:45:24] <lasseoe> Sun Messaging Server, Access Manager, Calendar Server, Directory Server all have licenses that cost money
[21:45:36] <quants> support is always extra$
[21:45:47] <lasseoe> comay: that's what I thought too
[21:46:06] * lasseoe waits PATITENLY for store.sun.com
[21:46:13] <lasseoe> patiently as well
[21:46:33] <sickness> cmihai: yeah, I also posted the sun documentation that explains how to enable it :P
[21:46:43] <lasseoe> http://www.sun.com/software/products/messaging_srvr/index.xml
[21:46:54] <lasseoe> click Price & Buy, find it in the store and you'll see it's not cheap :)
[21:47:18] <Error_e^ipi> so you can download it and use it, but not... if sun knows about it?
[21:47:31] <Error_e^ipi> even though they gave it to you
[21:47:33] <_syphilis_> hmm, sockets is a wrapper around XTI, right?  is there any performance increase from using XTI directly?
[21:47:34] <lasseoe> Error_e^ipi: Evaluate it
[21:47:44] <lasseoe> Not use it in production
[21:47:51] <Error_e^ipi> define: production
[21:48:02] <quants> you make money
[21:48:42] <Error_e^ipi> fair enough
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[21:50:51] <lasseoe> store.sun.com seems to be buggered
[21:51:10] <alanc> _syphilis_: I don't think sockets have been a wrapper around TLI/XTI since Solaris 2.5
[21:51:25] <_syphilis_> ah.  ok
[21:51:35] <_syphilis_> shame, i actually like XTI, was looking forward to using it again :)
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[21:52:28] <Viper550> anyone here?
[21:52:39] * quants shhhh
[21:52:45] <cmihai> No, go away.
[21:52:50] <Viper550> hahaha
[21:52:51] <comay> alanc: actually 2.6 to be exact (snv_11 to be even more exact)
[21:53:03] <cmihai> Viper550: yes we did.
[21:53:41] <_syphilis_> so are XTI and sockets equally native now?  or is XTI the wrapper?
[21:53:51] <quants> http://www.linux-mag.com/id/2773/
[21:53:53] <Viper550> yeah, nice offer, Solaris 10, and that Sun Studio Software Kit thingy for FREE!
[21:54:00] <quants> the link for the blog
[21:54:37] <quants> Viper550: last time they did that they told me "too late"
[21:55:02] <quants> let us say, Viper550 might be "too late" this time
[21:55:19] <quants> we'll see how SUN feels
[21:55:24] <Viper550> I got it in time, mine went through, 10 days to go!
[21:55:45] <quants> I did too
[21:56:58] <Viper550> well, at least Solaris 10 doesn't use that ugly CDE by default anymore! GNOME FTW!
[21:57:03] <quants> lol
[21:57:14] * quants rolling
[21:57:33] <quants> Viper550: you roxers
[21:57:34] <Viper550> Yeah, I'm planning on installing it on my lesser computer I use for experimentation with open source software
[21:58:31] <Error_e^ipi> I installed kde because i'm not a gnome fan
[21:58:35] <quants> Viper550: www.opensolaris.org
[21:58:53] <Error_e^ipi> doesn't matter what they ship with, people'll change it
[21:59:14] <Error_e^ipi> and more to the point, bitch about it
[21:59:15] <Viper550> I know the difference between Solaris and OpenSolaris, kinda like Fedora/RedHat, and Suse/Opensuse
[21:59:30] <cmihai> God, I hate this new generation of users who call CDE fugly
[21:59:39] * lasseoe likes CDE
[21:59:49] <quants> cmihai: you said it fugly
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[22:00:12] <Viper550> But, CDE is also nice, since not everything from what I hear is in the new JDE, so sometimes you still have to go there
[22:00:45] <cmihai> What
[22:00:48] <quants> lol
[22:00:49] <Triskelios> cmihai: I said it in 1999 and I'll say it again
[22:00:56] <jamesd> hmm jde is that like lightness of cde with all the bloat of java?
[22:00:58] <_syphilis_> i never liked the fedora/RHEL comparison
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[22:01:11] <_syphilis_> it's not really the same, i don't think
[22:01:13] <quants> JDS people
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[22:01:19] <Viper550> jamesd: no, Java Desktop Enviroment is a customized version of the Gnome Desktop
[22:01:25] <noyb> like what?  what drives somebody to go to cde for that killer app that nobody can get anywhere else but cde?
[22:01:25] <cmihai> That so
[22:01:32] <cmihai> Viper550: newsflash: we call it JDS.
[22:01:36] <cmihai> Java. Desktop. System.
[22:01:42] <richlowe> I don't think you can make the opensol v. anything else comparison until various things are more adequately fleshed out.
[22:02:09] <Viper550> Ooops, whatever, I was close
[22:02:10] <richlowe> you can make statements that currently come fairly close, I guess, but they won't entirely work.
[22:02:20] <richlowe> (for what it's worth, the best I can think of right now would be Darwin)
[22:02:37] <_syphilis_> jamesd: "lightness of cde with all the bloat of java" <- Sun CDE, half of it is java now ;-)
[22:02:50] <quants> truth
[22:02:51] <_syphilis_> i think there's more java in cde than jds
[22:02:55] <Viper550> Really? Never knew, at least JDS is GTK based
[22:03:06] * cmihai slams head into keyboard
[22:03:11] <quants> Viper550: lol
[22:03:20] <Error_e^ipi> gtk is very memory hungry
[22:03:24] <zdzichuBG> http://lwn.net/Articles/217740/
[22:03:27] <zdzichuBG> is this true?
[22:03:36] <Viper550> Not exactly, but I'm also sorta a KDE type of guy too
[22:03:45] * quants I'm gonna bust a gut!
[22:03:51] <estibi> do you guys use ZONES on ZFS filesystem (zonepath) ?
[22:03:55] * jamesd has now relized why zfs is all opensource,  so that no one claims its written in java, because it is a major memory hog..
[22:03:59] <jamesd> estibi, yes
[22:04:08] <asyd> estibi: yes
[22:04:12] <_syphilis_> zdzichuBG: follow the links back.  seems like it's just rumours
[22:04:20] <asyd> jamesd: hehe
[22:04:27] <alanc> Use Java 6 then - all the memory usage of the JVM with all the memory usage of GTK for the GNOME-look-and-feel
[22:04:47] <estibi> ok
[22:05:00] <richlowe> zdzichuBG: Nobody has talked to us about it, if it is.
[22:05:14] <stevel> it's all rumour and speculation at this point
[22:05:17] <richlowe> zdzichuBG: so I'd tend to assume "no".
[22:05:24] <zdzichuBG> richlowe: thanks
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[22:05:35] <Error_e^ipi> ZFS is a memory hog quite aside from java
[22:05:38] <richlowe> given that a license change without our involvement would be the community relations equivalent of shooting yourself in the balls to see what happened next.
[22:05:41] <Error_e^ipi> it doesn't need java to bloat it up
[22:05:47] <alanc> richlowe: nobody has talked to us either
[22:05:55] <Viper550> can you use ext3?
[22:06:09] * jmcp caffeinates
[22:06:18] <Error_e^ipi> Viper550: why would you want to?
[22:06:34] <Viper550> you say zfs is a memory hog? that's the file system?
[22:06:37] <cmihai> .....
[22:06:48] <cmihai> No, UFS is :P
[22:07:00] <Error_e^ipi> zfs is *a* filesystem
[22:07:01] <zdzichuBG> Viper550: zfs has its own caching
[22:07:18] <_syphilis_> ZFS was named for its memory consumption
[22:07:20] <_syphilis_> ;-D
[22:07:25] <cmihai> Yeah, right.
[22:07:48] <noyb> Zero Flippin' Swap  left...
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[22:08:21] <Viper550> hahaha, are there other file system options?
[22:08:28] <_syphilis_> ZFS, UFS, VxFS
[22:08:31] <noyb> pcfs
[22:08:37] <_syphilis_> + QFS
[22:08:40] <noyb> samfs
[22:08:47] *** markusb has quit IRC
[22:08:47] <noyb> nfs
[22:08:50] <cmihai> ext2 ;]
[22:08:55] <quants> Viper550: you need pcfs right?
[22:09:02] <Viper550> pcfs?
[22:09:03] <noyb> lofs
[22:09:04] <quants> you on Intel?
[22:09:08] <Viper550> x86
[22:09:09] <cmihai> Duh, mount teh iPods!
[22:09:38] <quants> Viper550: see if you need iPods you need pcfs
[22:09:40] <Error_e^ipi> mine's HFS
[22:09:50] <quants> cachunk
[22:09:53] <Viper550> I don't have an iPod
[22:09:55] <cmihai> Error_e^ipi: make it PCFS with the Apple tool
[22:09:58] <noyb> hsfs
[22:10:05] <Error_e^ipi> cmihai: then i couldn't sync it with my mac
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[22:10:24] <Viper550> So, here are my "real" questions about Solaris...
[22:10:28] <Error_e^ipi> i think a much better course of action is to port HFS from xnu to sunos
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[22:10:40] <delewis> Error_e^ipi: no!
[22:10:44] <delewis> HFS is the worst filesystem *ever*
[22:10:45] <Error_e^ipi> delewis: stop me.
[22:10:52] <quants> HFS is a dog
[22:10:53] <Error_e^ipi> i don't care, it's not for general use
[22:10:54] <cmihai> Worst.Filesystem.Ever.
[22:11:02] <Error_e^ipi> it's so that i can use teh ipodz0rz
[22:11:16] <Error_e^ipi> unless leopard lets me use ZFS
[22:11:19] <dwc-> wait.....
[22:11:21] <Error_e^ipi> in which case i won't bother
[22:11:23] <quants> HFS+ is only slight improvment
[22:11:26] <dwc-> you can't use an ipod on a mac unless it's formatted HFS+?
[22:11:26] <cmihai> Error_e^ipi: dude, Mac can mount PCFS
[22:11:32] <dwc-> that's rather lame
[22:11:33] <cmihai> It should mount FAT32!
[22:11:52] <Viper550> 1. Would Solaris run good on a 256MB ram Pentium 3 equiv. computer?
[22:12:01] <cmihai> No.
[22:12:04] <quants> Apple UFS can't even see a file bigger than 2GBs
[22:12:05] <Error_e^ipi> cmihai: mount, not "sync an ipod based on"
[22:12:11] <delewis> Viper550: "run", yes.
[22:12:13] <delewis> "good", no
[22:12:18] <andersmo> HFS? Worst filesystem ever? Worse than, say, FAT16? =)
[22:12:24] <cmihai> Yes.
[22:12:27] <Triskelios> Viper550: depends, not particularly well as a desktop
[22:12:28] <delewis> andersmo: yes, that bad.
[22:12:28] <dwc-> quants: apple UFS didn't support filesystems bigger than 2GB
[22:12:31] <richlowe> Hrm.
[22:12:34] <delewis> HFS stores nasty amounts of metadata
[22:12:37] <Viper550> Runs Fedora Core 5 nicely
[22:12:37] <dwc-> or HFS
[22:12:39] <delewis> like mimetypes for files
[22:12:42] <cmihai> It doesn't support files > 2GB
[22:12:50] <delewis> HFS+ suffers from this, as well.
[22:12:50] <cmihai> Same with HP-UX HFS
[22:12:53] <delewis> it's hardly a Unix filesystem.
[22:13:06] <cmihai> No support for large files... that's like.. horrible
[22:13:15] <Viper550> 2. What specs are needed for the GUI installer?
[22:13:20] <cmihai> 512 RAM.
[22:13:21] <quants> cmihai: indeed
[22:13:23] <cmihai> You don't need the GUI installer.
[22:13:30] <delewis> Viper550: at least 256MB of memory
[22:13:33] <Error_e^ipi> it's ugly and dumb
[22:13:34] <cmihai> 256 with text installer.
[22:13:35] <delewis> Solaris is "usable" with 512MB
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[22:13:42] <delewis> but 1-2GB is advantageous.
[22:13:46] <cmihai> It's not Solaris that gets you
[22:13:49] <cmihai> IT's the apps.
[22:13:55] <Triskelios> the GUI installer is mostly the same as the text one right now, and it's yucky java crap anyway
[22:13:56] <quants> mine is no 800MHz+256MB RAM
[22:13:57] <cmihai> 200MB for firefox, 200MB for Jaba stuff etc
[22:14:00] <delewis> cmihai: I'm assuming he wants to do something productive with it.
[22:14:07] <delewis> not just sit there and watch code compile.
[22:14:25] <Viper550> I'm just using as a non-internet connected "just do stuff on it" computer
[22:14:26] <quants> lol
[22:14:27] <richlowe> Ok, I'll bite.
[22:14:32] <Triskelios> my P3 laptop with 512MB RAM is very usable
[22:14:39] <dwc-> I use a sparc laptop with 256mb of ram
[22:14:42] <richlowe> How in the hell does the implementation language of the GUI installer make it any more or less yucky?
[22:14:49] <Triskelios> and I was still relying on my laptop when it had 256MB
[22:14:51] <dwc-> just have to restart mozilla so it doesn't leak away all the memory
[22:14:58] <delewis> dwc-:  :-)
[22:14:58] <cmihai> :))
[22:14:59] <Triskelios> so yeah, it'll be fine
[22:15:13] <quants> I downloaded opera for sol
[22:15:15] <dwc-> oh... and toss gnome... and cde for that matter
[22:15:22] <cmihai> Opera for Solaris is really nice.
[22:15:29] <delewis> again if you want to actually *use* Solaris, ZFS, zones, and all, you really, really need 1-2GB of memory.
[22:15:39] <delewis> if Linux had those features, I'm sure it'd require the same amount.
[22:15:40] <Viper550> Note some things: My current Linux install is Fedora Core 5, and it ran Gnome and KDE good
[22:15:43] <quants> aka server stuff
[22:15:46] <cmihai> delewis: goes for any OS really
[22:15:51] <Triskelios> cmihai: except the x86 build is still STATICALLY LINKED to Qt, yuck!
[22:15:52] <dwc-> zones are rather lightweight
[22:15:53] <cmihai> 1GB+ is the norm
[22:15:53] <delewis> cmihai: precisely.
[22:15:59] <dwc-> a zone with nothing in it is something like 30mb
[22:16:06] <delewis> dwc-: I'm assuming you want to do productive things with your zones :-)
[22:16:17] <_syphilis_> curiously, i have an application which takes about 1.5x more memory when compiled with studio than with gcc
[22:16:22] <cmihai> dwc-: add Oracle to that and watch it explode
[22:16:23] <Error_e^ipi> Triskelios: what build is static linked?
[22:16:26] <dwc-> ksh93 compilation? works fine. ;)
[22:16:37] <delewis> _syphilis_: are you using any optimizations?
[22:16:38] <quants> Error_e^ipi: all of them
[22:16:41] <Triskelios> Error_e^ipi: the solaris/intel build of opera
[22:16:44] <cmihai> So?
[22:16:55] <dwc-> runnign something in your zone takes only marginally more than running the app outside
[22:16:56] <_syphilis_> delewis: -O2 (gcc), -xO3 (studio)
[22:17:06] <dwc-> you could probably strip it down even more than I did
[22:17:08] <_syphilis_> although i don't build under studio anymore since it has to run on linux now :(
[22:17:09] <Error_e^ipi> oh, you can download the dynamic linked build
[22:17:12] <delewis> _syphilis_: same platform?
[22:17:17] <richlowe> _syphilis_: calling setenv a lot?
[22:17:20] <_syphilis_> delewis: yes, solaris 10
[22:17:22] <Triskelios> Error_e^ipi: I've never found it
[22:17:25] <Viper550> So, not even for a desktop computer, my older computer would have a slow time on Solaris?
[22:17:31] <delewis> _syphilis_: no, I meant the compilation platform.
[22:17:34] <Triskelios> Error_e^ipi: last I checked they only did it for sparc
[22:17:37] <_syphilis_> richlowe: not at all.  i think the problem is the crappy C++ library in studio :)
[22:17:38] <delewis> gcc by default outputs v8 binaries
[22:17:40] <cmihai> Viper550: on any system not just Solaris.
[22:17:45] <delewis> where as Sun Studio outputs v8plus binaries
[22:17:45] <_syphilis_> delewis: i don't understand what that means
[22:17:56] <Error_e^ipi> you could install a halfass apache & such
[22:18:01] <_syphilis_> delewis: this is x86.  they were both compiled for 64-bit, opteron optimisations
[22:18:05] <cmihai> Viper550: Firefox will leak just as much memory on any system
[22:18:06] <Error_e^ipi> it'd work fine, just don't load anything in to  ram
[22:18:34] <Viper550> but I won't be using Firefox, or any internet apps anyway
[22:18:36] <quants> firefox is nasty
[22:18:43] <cmihai> Viper550: then what would you use?
[22:18:54] <cmihai> No internet? Well, that makes is useless :)
[22:18:57] <Triskelios> I miss konqueror
[22:19:01] * cmihai pukes
[22:19:10] <Viper550> Like, Office, and the little Games on it
[22:19:21] <cmihai> There aren't any.
[22:19:22] <cmihai> Games.
[22:19:27] <delewis> netrek
[22:19:28] <cmihai> And StarOffice is a memory killer
[22:19:29] <quants> cmihai: no flash?
[22:19:36] <cmihai> There is flash.
[22:19:39] <delewis> quants: Flash is shipped by default.
[22:19:41] <quants> whew
[22:19:42] <Triskelios> quants: solaris ships with flash
[22:19:43] <cmihai> And Java (duh). And RealPlayer.
[22:19:46] <cmihai> And NVIDIA drivers. And so on.
[22:19:47] <Viper550> Ahh, doesn't Java Desktop System have games (since it's Gnome)?
[22:19:55] <quants> Viper550: yes
[22:19:56] <delewis> Viper550: Mahjong, etc.
[22:19:56] <Error_e^ipi> Solaris was never really designed for tight requirements like that... after the minimum, it works fantastic & scales like crazy
[22:20:00] <Triskelios> Viper550: yes, the regular gnome games are there
[22:20:07] <Viper550> yeah, that stuff
[22:20:08] <cmihai> You call those games?...
[22:20:13] <Error_e^ipi> but any less than 512M, you may want to look at netbsd etc
[22:20:14] <dwc-> "mahjong" you mean
[22:20:14] <cmihai> Someone actually plays those?
[22:20:15] <quants> cmihai: yes
[22:20:25] <quants> I love ksudoku
[22:20:29] <Error_e^ipi> cmihai: my wife plays mahjongg all the time
[22:20:32] <Triskelios> Error_e^ipi: I got by with 256MB
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[22:21:38] <Viper550> So, I should theoretically, just keep using Linux?
[22:21:40] <Triskelios> the 1G on the new lappy is a huge improvement, though (and the Core 2 doesn't hurt either =P)
[22:21:46] <lloy0076> I found that with Firefox, SeaMonkey (on a BrandZ Linux zone), Eclipse (on a BrandZ Linux Zone), Thunderbird and a terminal that my Solaris install would sit atabout 1.1 - 1.3GB of memory; hence I stacked 2GB of memory into my machine and I don't see it swapping all the time now.
[22:22:09] <cmihai> Viper550: what did I tell you?
[22:22:24] <cmihai> Viper550: It doesn't matter what OS you're on, Firefox will leak the same ammount of memory
[22:22:30] <cmihai> So will Gnome.
[22:22:54] <Error_e^ipi> Viper550: or upgrade to a BSD
[22:23:07] <Triskelios> Viper550: in other words, you won't be particularly more uncomfortable in Solaris relative to Linux
[22:23:08] <Viper550> I don't get memory leaks that much on *nix Firefox, also note - I'm not using Firefox since the compy I'm installing it on has no internet anymore
[22:23:17] <Triskelios> Error_e^ipi: ...
[22:23:47] <Viper550> But, at least Solaris 10 doesn't have that stupid Configuration Agent Boot load whatever thingy, now it's GRUB! Yay!
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[22:24:08] <quants> grub is old
[22:24:21] <quants> I'm waiting on grub2
[22:24:42] <quants> grub2 will bot ppc
[22:24:48] <quants> boot*
[22:25:09] <Viper550> Configuration Agent, Solaris Boot Manager, whatever! I like Grub, it's a nice universal standard, and my Linux install right now of GRUB Legacy boots Linux and Windows XP (on seperate hard drives) in nice harmony, so I'm not concerned there much
[22:25:12] <Triskelios> Viper550: did you know Sun kept around an old 286 or 386 running Xenix to build the previous bootloader?
[22:25:15] <delewis> why would you want Grub on PowerPC?
[22:25:41] <Viper550> Umm, x86
[22:25:42] <quants> to ditch yaboot
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[22:26:04] <Viper550> oh, I thought you suddenly decided my computer was a Mac
[22:26:07] <jmcp> delewis: interface consistency .... for the same reason that people refuse to run SunCluster - they can run Veritas Cluster on more architectures
[22:26:14] <Tpenta> Triskelios: it woas worse than that, the real mode stuff needed an NT box with an obsoleted compiler
[22:26:34] <delewis> jmcp: I'm just saying with OpenFirmware you don't really, really don't need something like Grub.
[22:26:35] <quants> Viper550: not all ppc is a mac
[22:26:43] <jmcp> delewis: I know
[22:27:00] <jmcp> delewis: and I *wish* amd and intel would make bios die Die DIE!
[22:27:03] <Viper550> that's what I commonly think of
[22:27:12] <delewis> jmcp: me too :-(
[22:27:22] <delewis> its a shame IEEE-1275 never made it
[22:27:39] * tsoome is typing on MacDell;)
[22:27:48] <delewis> I do have to give it to Netapp, though -- they wrote their own IEEE-1275 implementation for x86.
[22:28:01] <Error_e^ipi> jmcp: you don't like EFI?
[22:28:18] <quants> openfirmware is better
[22:28:28] <richlowe> liking EFI is not entirely related to that.
[22:28:29] <lloy0076> jmcp: I'm convinced Intel would still be 32 bit had AMD not bought out AMD64 and said, "Hah, we got here first!".
[22:28:29] <delewis> Error_e^ipi: EFI needlessly re-invents in the wheel in a terrible way.
[22:28:36] <richlowe> given there's a limited number of x86 vendors actually using it.
[22:28:44] <lloy0076> jmcp: I really don't see them getting rid of the BIOS that soon :(
[22:28:55] <Error_e^ipi> is there > 1  x86 vendor using it?
[22:28:55] <delewis> lloy0076: of course not.
[22:29:11] <delewis> why should they provide such functionality if customers don't even know it exists.
[22:29:15] <delewis> Error_e^ipi: all Itanium vendors.
[22:29:16] <delewis> and Apple
[22:29:21] <jmcp> lloy0076: re emt64, I agree. re bios .... bios is craptacular
[22:29:28] <Error_e^ipi> yeah, but itanic isn't x86
[22:29:29] <quants> EM64T
[22:29:36] <delewis> Error_e^ipi: true :-)
[22:29:39] <delewis> in that case, just APple
[22:29:42] <lloy0076> jmcp: I didn't say the BIOS wasn't craptacular - I said they wouldn't get rid of it :P
[22:29:45] <delewis> Apple rather
[22:29:52] <zdzichuBG> next Centrino refresh will be EFI based, VIsta will support EFI. it will become prevalent
[22:29:57] <Error_e^ipi> I still maintain getting solaris to boot on IA64 would be neat
[22:30:05] <Viper550> EFI not on 32 bit Vista
[22:30:09] <quants> Error_e^ipi: hell yeah
[22:30:14] <delewis> people are still in awe when they figure out what OpenBoot actually does 15 years after OpenBoot was originally introduced.
[22:30:18] <lloy0076> Anyway, I better get ready for work.
[22:30:18] <delewis> this is sad.
[22:30:25] <cmihai> Error_e^ipi: too much competion would kill HP-UX :P
[22:30:44] <delewis> "Why don't my peecee have this?"
[22:30:45] <Error_e^ipi> a light draft would kill hpux at this point
[22:30:49] <delewis> doesn't, rather
[22:30:54] <quants> Itanic has some nice hardware specs
[22:30:59] <cmihai> HAHA
[22:31:25] <delewis> quants: do you know how hard it is to write a decent compiler for IA64?
[22:31:38] <quants> no
[22:31:41] <cmihai> It's hard.
[22:31:42] <delewis> quite hard.
[22:31:45] <Error_e^ipi> didn't intel write one?
[22:31:52] <jmcp> delewis: decent compiler, let alone one for IA64 or Sparc ....
[22:31:55] <cmihai> Tons onf optimizations and crap... they expected stuff to run a lot faster with a decent compiler.
[22:31:56] <delewis> and that's why the majority of applications for IA64 performed horribly.
[22:32:01] <delewis> jmcp: SPARC is eaqsy
[22:32:04] <delewis> easy, rather.
[22:32:07] <delewis> compared to IA64
[22:32:10] <cmihai> Nobody wrote one, so IA64 performs like crap.
[22:32:11] <jmcp> compiler-writing is best done by magical insane people stored in a vault
[22:32:17] <jmcp> delewis: yes, in comparison...
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[22:32:38] <cmihai> The key to IA64 performance was supposed to be mad compiler optimizations. They never came.
[22:32:43] <Gman> hey hey hey
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[22:33:02] <quants> cmihai: ppc needs a good compiler too
[22:33:04] <Viper550> well...is there anything else I can do with my Solaris 10 disc other than use it but still be usable?
[22:33:13] <delewis> quants: PowerPC has very decent compilers.
[22:33:21] <delewis> gcc actually does a decent job of PowerPC compilation nowadays
[22:33:24] <quants> yeah made by IBM
[22:33:31] <Error_e^ipi> Viper550: ebay it?
[22:33:34] <delewis> as does XLC
[22:33:35] <Error_e^ipi> Viper550: install it
[22:33:36] <jmcp> Gman: gday
[22:33:37] <delewis> which is the IBM compiler.
[22:33:48] <delewis> it really rocks if you're doing Altivec stuff.
[22:33:53] <Viper550> Error_e^ipi: I have calcuated that it may not run good on my computer
[22:33:56] <quants> delewis: indeed
[22:34:05] <Error_e^ipi> throw more ram in the machine
[22:34:07] <Error_e^ipi> it'll run great
[22:34:10] * delewis has a pSeries p640 with xlc on it
[22:34:11] <quants> I love VMX
[22:34:17] <Teknix> jmcp: howdy
[22:34:22] <Triskelios> Viper550, why not just install it and see how it goes?
[22:34:23] <jmcp> hi Tekni
[22:34:30] <boyd> Morning, all
[22:34:39] <Viper550> Error_e^ipi: It has 256mb ram, and that's as much as it can have
[22:35:07] <quants> too bad intel still can't make any good SIMD extentions
[22:35:18] <quants> Viper550: mine too
[22:35:19] <Viper550> it's an older computer, came with preloaded Windows ME, it's an HP
[22:35:35] <Viper550> But, it dual boots XP and Fedora Core 5
[22:35:36] <quants> Viper550: I'm testing on my lifebook
[22:36:17] <Viper550> specs?
[22:36:24] <quants> 256MB RAM
[22:36:28] <quants> max
[22:36:30] <Viper550> mine is 256mb ram, Athlon TB
[22:36:33] <cmihai> Screw that, buy a real machine.
[22:36:50] <quants> my portable is great for how I use it
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[22:36:54] <Viper550> I have 3 "real machines", but my 2nd hd is in my older one
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[22:37:11] <Viper550> Gman: are you having a wonderful time? :D
[22:37:24] * jamesd has too many "real machines" and  millions of  "imaginary machines"
[22:37:46] <Gman> Viper550, yep, it's been a fun conference so far
[22:38:05] <zdzichuBG> complex machine setups are funny
[22:38:06] <cmihai> jamesd: Yeah, I have 2 Cray quad-core 26000 CPU supercomputers myself.
[22:38:13] <cmihai> All imaginary of course
[22:38:36] <quants> DX! here
[22:38:41] <quants> DX1*
[22:38:42] <Viper550> my newest computer, 1gb ram (4gb max), Athlon 64 X2, Vista Ready, XP Media Center 2005, and a widescreen flat panel monitor! 22 INCHES!
[22:38:54] <quants> lol vistaready
[22:38:56] <Viper550> Yes. 64 bit.
[22:39:03] <cmihai> Viper550: god dude...
[22:39:11] <cmihai> 1GB RAM still sucks.
[22:39:20] <delewis> all that CPU power and only 1GB of memory.
[22:39:21] <cmihai> Did you really need to paste that VistaReady crap :)
[22:39:22] * delewis sighs
[22:39:34] <Viper550> But still, my other computers have 512
[22:39:39] <delewis> my 6-year-old workstation has 2GB.
[22:39:44] <delewis> and my 8-year-old server has 8GB.
[22:39:52] <delewis> did I mention both are 64-bit?
[22:40:04] <quants> my notebook has 2.5GB
[22:40:08] <Viper550> But, I'm getting AERO GLASS!
[22:40:15] <quants> blek
[22:40:19] <Viper550> When...I get Express Upgrade though
[22:40:35] <delewis> why are you interested in Solaris again?
[22:40:38] <quants> Viper550: MS has you suxerd
[22:40:41] <Error_e^ipi> i remember windows
[22:40:49] <Error_e^ipi> back in the day
[22:40:55] <quants> Error_e^ipi: mee too
[22:41:01] <Viper550> My OLDER computer dual boots XP and Linux
[22:41:02] <cmihai> Viper550: are you sure you're in the right place?
[22:41:07] <cmihai> Fedora and now Vista...
[22:41:08] <Gman> oooh, PSARC 2007/036 sysevent DTrace provider
[22:41:13] <Gman> that will be cool
[22:41:14] * tsoome dropped ms from desktop
[22:41:21] <Tpenta> :)
[22:41:36] <Viper550> Yes, I am. I actively support Open Source, and my Windows based computers do have open source apps on them, like Firefox and Thunderbird, X-Chat, Gimp
[22:41:42] <quants> I've not used win anything for a long long time
[22:41:44] <jmcp> Viper550: heh... well *my* workstation is a dual-core ultra20-m2, 2gb ram, nvidia fx560, 2x 320gb sata drives, dell 24" lcd, lg 19" lcd ... running SX :)
[22:41:49] <tsoome> vista is way too broken for real use
[22:41:55] <delewis> I love the capitalization of "open source"
[22:41:57] <Viper550> Wow...
[22:41:59] <cmihai> Open Sores
[22:42:12] <Viper550> well, at least my new one has sata...
[22:42:32] <cmihai> Not supported VIA SATA I hope
[22:42:38] <quants> my notebook has sata
[22:42:51] <Viper550> VIA SATA? I don't think so
[22:42:53] <Teknix> jmcp: i have that beat ;)
[22:42:56] <delewis> my 6-year-old workstation has 1Gb/s fibre-channel.
[22:43:03] <delewis> what happened to this world :-(
[22:43:04] <jmcp> Teknix: oooooh :)
[22:43:07] <Gman> ok, keynote time (andrew tanenbaum) - later!
[22:43:08] *** Gman has quit IRC
[22:43:09] <delewis> oh, wait -- commodization.
[22:43:16] <quants> fc is old and expensive
[22:43:22] <delewis> old?
[22:43:31] <jmcp> quants: you're a bit off-key there
[22:43:32] <Viper550> it's a Compaq Presario SR2038X
[22:43:35] * lloy0076 watches the fibre channel discussion happen again
[22:43:44] <cmihai> Oh boy.. here we go :)
[22:43:45] <delewis> EMC, IBM, and every other storage company are still pushing it.
[22:43:48] <quants> scsi bigot remember?
[22:44:11] <quants> if it's not SCSI it's old and expensive
[22:44:23] <delewis> quants: I hope you're joking
[22:44:31] <cmihai> Erm... are you sure you know what you're talking about?
[22:44:32] <delewis> because if you aren't, its obvious you have a zero understanding of fibre-channel.
[22:44:48] <Viper550> Note, these are DESKTOP COMPUTERS..
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[22:44:51] <delewis> fibre-channel can encapsulate SCSI, except commands are no longer being sent over an 8-bit bus.
[22:44:52] <quants> delewis: this is an un-serious discussion
[22:45:01] <delewis> Viper550: my 6-year-old workstation fits on a desk.
[22:45:07] <delewis> what's your point?
[22:45:23] <Error_e^ipi> how old is an ultra2 ?
[22:45:24] <quants> delewis: I'm playing with you
[22:45:33] <delewis> quants: just checking :-)
[22:45:37] <delewis> I had a tank of napalm ready.
[22:45:39] <Error_e^ipi> damn near a decade, no?
[22:45:46] <delewis> Error_e^ipi: over a decade
[22:45:49] <delewis> they came out in 1995
[22:45:50] <Error_e^ipi> it fits on a desk and mine came with 2 gigs of ram
[22:45:51] <delewis> along with the Ultra 1
[22:46:00] <Viper550> comparing my "not real computers" to SCSI beasts with quad core and all that, and even worse - bashing me for using windows!
[22:46:03] <delewis> though, those only came with UltraSPARC-I procs.
[22:46:04] <jmcp> Viper550: desktop ... that's an irrelevancy
[22:46:04] <Error_e^ipi> a decade ago
[22:46:17] <delewis> SCSI beasts?
[22:46:20] <delewis> that's so 1994, dude.
[22:46:24] <Viper550> SCSI hard drives?
[22:46:25] <Error_e^ipi> "desktops" are just secret microsoft code for 10 year old junk
[22:46:30] <delewis> Viper550: yes.
[22:46:32] * Auralis has a Fibrechannel desktop beasty
[22:46:43] <delewis> fibre-channel has been the storage standard for over a decade now.
[22:46:46] <Viper550> whatever, never mind, GAMING COMPUTERS? Is that technical enough for you?
[22:46:54] <delewis> Viper550: I can play netrek.
[22:46:57] <delewis> what's your poitn?
[22:47:00] <delewis> point, rather.
[22:47:22] <Error_e^ipi> games'll run on surprisingly limited hardware
[22:47:30] <Viper550> more powerful games
[22:47:31] <quants> Error_e^ipi: shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[22:47:36] <tsoome> ah, you can get nice fc hba for some 300-500$ today I guess, so it's nothing fancy;)
[22:47:37] <Triskelios> Error_e^ipi: well, the U2 in the configuration did cost a small fortune new
[22:47:45] <Auralis> all that solaris realy needs it lost of ram
[22:47:46] <delewis> tsoome: you don't really even need that.
[22:47:55] <delewis> you'd be surprised how well a 1Gb/s HBA will perform.
[22:47:58] <lloy0076> Auralis: Agreed.
[22:48:03] <Error_e^ipi> an innaccurate but fast vector processor doesn't make the computer any better
[22:48:04] <delewis> and you can pick a decent 1Gb/s Emulex up for $50.
[22:48:05] <Viper550> delewis: I can play Netrek, I'm downloading it now!
[22:48:06] <quants> all RISC needs losta RAM
[22:48:19] <Error_e^ipi> even if it does fit in pcie
[22:48:52] <delewis> Viper550: if you haven't picked it up yet, this really isn't the channel to brag about your peecee hardware in.
[22:49:04] <tsoome> quants my laptop does have a 1G of ram, U10 does have 256MB. U10 does run solaris 10, dell was loaded with vista and died....
[22:49:14] <Error_e^ipi> Triskelios: i didn't pay for it ;)
[22:49:15] <jmcp> quants: nope, not true
[22:49:31] <Viper550> Originally, I was just talking about if Solaris would be usable on my older system, and now it explodes into this!
[22:49:38] <tsoome> risc and lots of ram is a myth, it's all about programmers....
[22:49:53] <Auralis> nope, bragging about your hardware here will most certainly lead to be embarrasing /me remembers people here that have 64 CPU machines at HOME and other monstrosities
[22:49:54] <delewis> tsoome: its a mis-understanding of what RISC actually is.
[22:49:54] <lloy0076> Viper550: Welcome to the open source community...they're all like this.
[22:50:01] <delewis> people remove the actual definition of RISC
[22:50:10] <delewis> and consider the actual hardware and modern operating systems running on modern RISC hardware
[22:50:13] <delewis> and say
[22:50:14] <delewis> "Oh, it needs lot of memory"
[22:50:21] <delewis> *wrong*
[22:50:34] <quants> lol exploded right!
[22:50:39] <Viper550> never mind, I'm just going to play Netrek and get some on system requirements from more reliable sources
[22:50:41] *** Viper550 has quit IRC
[22:50:50] <quants> hahahah
[22:50:52] <delewis> more reliable sources?
[22:50:55] <Error_e^ipi> *shrug*
[22:51:00] * delewis shakes head in shame
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[22:51:34] <jmcp> hi stevel
[22:51:41] <quants> I should say RISC likes lotsa RAM
[22:51:42] <tsoome> but sure, lots of ram doesn't hurt;)
[22:51:49] <quants> tada
[22:51:50] <stevel> hey jmcp
[22:51:51] <delewis> quants: any system does :-)
[22:52:06] <quants> pentiums suck
[22:52:27] <jmcp> quants: not when they blow
[22:52:41] <quants> my P4 w/ 2.5GBs blows
[22:52:43] <tsoome> they are recommending 2G ram for vista desktops, so it must be running on RISC's ;)
[22:52:56] <delewis> tsoome: actually, I like that.
[22:53:07] <delewis> its about time the standard for physical memory in consumer systems was increased.
[22:53:10] <delewis> afterall, this 2007.
[22:53:15] <quants> actually P4s are RISC
[22:53:17] <delewis> 256MB was common in 2001.
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[22:53:45] <Triskelios> it's still the software's fault that this is happening
[22:53:46] <quants> P4s use micro code ops
[22:54:05] <quants> Triskelios: no argument
[22:54:08] <Triskelios> quants: every modern CPU does
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[22:54:29] <quants> Triskelios: define modern... ;)
[22:54:53] <Error_e^ipi> vax fo' eva'
[22:55:04] * delewis throws stones at Error_e^ipi
[22:55:09] <delewis> you sound like a NetBSD user.
[22:55:13] <tsoome> lots of ram is nice, but.... can you really do more with that;) I guess all we can see the programs are more bloated with useless features;)
[22:55:14] <quants> some of the older RISC chips are truly beautiful
[22:55:15] <Triskelios> quants: pretty much any architectures designed in the past decade
[22:55:18] <delewis> "we must preserve the VAX hardware!"
[22:55:28] <delewis> "god save VAX, god save VAX!"
[22:55:49] <tsoome> god == HP ?
[22:55:55] <delewis> tsoome: :-)
[22:55:56] <boyd> Unlikely
[22:55:58] <quants> no!!!!!!!!!1
[22:56:04] <delewis> irrelevant.
[22:56:12] <tsoome> ;)
[22:56:22] <boyd> If HP was omniscient they wouldn't have to hire PIs to spy on the board
[22:56:33] * quants rotfl
[22:56:49] <quants> here we go
[22:56:56] <delewis> nor would they have killed their instrumentation and calculator product lines :-(
[22:57:15] <quants> I have an HP calc
[22:57:17] <Error_e^ipi> isn't HP a linux on junk vendor now?
[22:57:19] <Triskelios> they killed their calculator lines?!
[22:57:21] <Triskelios> nooo
[22:57:22] <Error_e^ipi> like sgi
[22:57:33] <delewis> quants: I've got 2, myself.
[22:57:36] <oxygene> Error_e^ipi: hp is an ink company
[22:57:37] <delewis> a 32-SII and a 48GX
[22:57:38] <boyd> Triskelios: A while ago IIRC
[22:57:41] <delewis> none of that hokey new stuff.
[22:57:42] <quants> they even made a graphical rpn
[22:57:46] <rydis> ... and if DEC hadn't gone downhill in the early eighties, they wouldn't have made vaxen at all.
[22:57:49] <oxygene> Error_e^ipi: with a secondary business in printers
[22:57:54] <boyd> oxygene: That's ink *dealer*
[22:58:01] <delewis> the calculator division was axed around 1998.
[22:58:23] * boyd has a 48G he thinks
[22:58:30] <oxygene> boyd: I think they actually develop parts of the associated chemistry themselves
[22:58:32] <dme> G or GX?
[22:58:35] <delewis> I could sell my 48GX now for $300
[22:58:39] <delewis> :-)
[22:58:50] <delewis> along with my 32-SII for about $200
[22:58:51] <dme> really?  wow.  i have a GX that i use a lot.
[22:58:52] <boyd> oxygene: So do some amphetamines dealers :)
[22:58:58] <delewis> dme: yeah.
[22:59:04] <delewis> people kill for GX's nowadays.
[22:59:13] <boyd> dme: Can't remember. Need to get it from the drawer at home
[22:59:14] * dme potters of to ebay...
[22:59:18] <delewis> because you can turn a GX into a 49G+ (in terms of functionality) quite easily with one.
[22:59:30] <delewis> grab yourself a memory card, throw some CAS software on it
[22:59:33] <delewis> and *poof* 49G+
[23:00:07] * boyd doesn't think his one has any kind of memory card... maybe he's misremembering the model
[23:00:13] <boyd> (or memory slot)
[23:00:14] <delewis> HP actually hired the guys that wrote the free CAS software for the 48GX to create the 49G+
[23:00:19] <delewis> boyd: yeah.
[23:00:25] <delewis> only GX's had the memory expansion port
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[23:00:42] <delewis> erable was the name of the CAS software, I think
[23:01:13] <boyd> Mine does (small) graphs, symbolic manipulation (integration, differentiation), etc.
[23:02:26] * boyd looks for pics. Ah, yes... mine has a much smaller screen.. and a fold out cover with buttons
[23:03:05] <delewis> http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/math/misc/sshots/quadr03.gif
[23:03:25] <delewis> that's a screenshot of alg48+erable+java (alg48 and erable are CASes and java is pretty print)
[23:03:43] <delewis> which is essentially what the modern HP cals have
[23:04:05] <boyd> Hmm...
[23:04:10] * boyd searches for an image of his
[23:05:07] *** bougie has quit IRC
[23:05:38] <delewis> nowadays, I just use Mathematica :-)
[23:05:57] * boyd can't afford the license :)
[23:06:07] * delewis coughs
[23:06:38] * boyd is on page 12 of google images and *still* hasn't seen his
[23:07:02] <delewis> boyd: http://www.hpmuseum.org/
[23:07:18] <boyd> delewis: Careful, I'll catch something if you're not careful with all the coughing :)
[23:07:33] <delewis> http://www.hpmuseum.org/img/28cs.jpg
[23:07:47] <boyd> Yeah, that looks more like it
[23:08:02] <dme> oh, i have an 18C somewhere as well.  hated it.
[23:08:51] <delewis> I had a friend who had a 28
[23:08:53] <delewis> nice calc
[23:09:00] <delewis> until the cables between both sides started to fray
[23:09:06] <delewis> and the other side became unusable
[23:09:15] * boyd nods... I thought that may be a problem
[23:09:50] * boyd goes to do some actual work :)
[23:12:03] <onbot> commit by johansen-osdev:  6498304 too much CPU time winding up in LMS_WAIT_CPU
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[23:14:54] <comay> gman: hey glynn
[23:15:01] <hile_> hey glynn
[23:16:09] <Gman> hey comay, hile_
[23:18:13] <hile_> how goes it down under?
[23:18:39] <Gman> just attending linux.conf.au in sydney right now
[23:18:44] <Gman> start of the main conference today
[23:19:02] <Gman> comay, hope to be over in mpk feb 6-10th btw
[23:19:14] <comay> gman: is that the conference you & jeff told us about @oscon?
[23:19:19] <Gman> comay, yep
[23:19:28] <Gman> jeff's co-organizing it this year
[23:19:38] <comay> re mpk: cool, we should talk when you get here
[23:19:51] <Gman> will look you out
[23:20:12] <comay> is there any opensolaris being discussed (i remember jeff wanted to make it more of a general open source conf)
[23:20:31] <Gman> no, i'm the only sun guy here seemingly
[23:20:42] <Gman> was also on the paper review committee, so didn't submit a paper
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[23:23:32] <brs> Hello, I'm trying to compile KDE on my Solaris Express box, with the Sun Studio compilers and CC breaks horribly, when it encounters the line 'const QString& LayoutIcon::ERROR_CODE("error");' Can anybody help me find the problem?
[23:24:22] <Gman> linus is just introducing andrew tanenbaum for this morning's lca keynote
[23:24:39] <brs> steleman: I was told by delewis that you might be able to help
[23:24:55] <delewis> Gman: classic.
[23:25:04] <delewis> has he given Linus an 'F' yet? :-)
[23:25:17] <Gman> heh, not at all
[23:25:30] <Gman> i think linus is very aware of the fact that linux wouldn't have existed without andy
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[23:25:57] <Viking667> 'llo all.
[23:26:07] <Viking667> Andrew Tanenbaum?
[23:26:28] <delewis> Gman: I was referring to the classic debate between Tananbaum and Torvalds. Tanenbaum told Torvalds that if he were to submit "Linux" as project for one of his classes, he would've received an F.
[23:26:29] <Gman> keynoting at linux.conf.au
[23:26:42] <Gman> delewis, ahh
[23:26:50] <Viking667> lol.
[23:27:01] *** slowhog has quit IRC
[23:27:16] <Viking667> Anyhow I have a question about my 6/06 system. Does Xorg work fine with a Radeon 7000 under 6/06?  My screen keeps going blank and powering off. 8-(
[23:27:19] <Gman> 'software is a gas, it expands to fill it's container'
[23:27:24] <delewis> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/appa.html
[23:27:30] <Gman> 'software is getting slower faster than hardware is getting faster'
[23:27:37] <Gman> [from myhrvold's laws]
[23:27:51] <tsoome> how true...
[23:28:07] * Gman suspects he's going to diss software over the next hour
[23:28:13] <richlowe> Gman: concepts, as a GNOME hacker you must already appreciate ;)
[23:28:14] * richlowe ducks
[23:28:24] <Gman> heh
[23:28:33] <delewis> "I still maintain the point that designing a monolithic kernel in 1991 is
[23:28:34] <delewis> a fundamental error.  Be thankful you are not my student.  You would not
[23:28:34] <delewis> get a high grade for such a design :-)
[23:28:35] <delewis> "
[23:28:50] * comay is trying to think of a snappy answer to the container quote
[23:28:55] <Gman> richlowe, fortunately he's just talking about windows right now ;)
[23:30:02] <quants> I've always wanted to design my own microkernel
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[23:30:24] <delewis> quants: no, you don't. :-)
[23:30:29] <Gman> suspect this keynote willl be on slashdot before the day is out
[23:30:35] <delewis> its quite hard to debug them, especially the message passing.
[23:30:58] <quants> delewis: yeah, but they are a thing of beauty
[23:31:27] <quants> hard to make fast, hard to make secure
[23:33:32] <Tpenta> good luck glynn
[23:33:49] <Tpenta> wotcha gunna talk about?
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[23:34:35] <Gman> Tpenta, i'm not, you mis-read the log
[23:34:46] <Tpenta> yea i did
[23:35:48] <Tpenta> as i recall those two made up quite some time ago :)
[23:35:50] <quants> I need a solid 5port switch, any suggestions? my linksys crashes all the time
[23:36:17] * Tpenta bought a 5 port surecom for AUS$50 about 6 months ago
[23:36:35] <quants> how does it hold up?
[23:36:48] <hile_> How do you manage it?
[23:37:08] <quants> mine is dumb
[23:37:10] <Tpenta> well I'm only using 3 ports on it at the moment and I've never really hammered it, bit it's been fine. it's a dumb switch (ie no management)
[23:37:35] <Tpenta> it just sits on my desk so I can run the ultra 60 and my ferrarri
[23:37:59] <sickness> $ digest -v -a md5 sol-10-u3-ga-sparc-dvd.iso
[23:38:00] <sickness> digest: failed to initialize PKCS #11 framework: CKR_GENERAL_ERROR
[23:38:04] <sickness> cool, under snv54 :/
[23:40:55] <quants> http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/592025.html
[23:43:30] <sickness> sorry, I'm a noob, I learned that you need to be root to do that =)
[23:44:34] *** gm152 has joined #opensolaris
[23:50:15] <quants> http://www.surecom-net.com/pd-gigabit-808ag.htm
[23:50:17] *** yippi has joined #opensolaris
[23:50:24] <quants> jumbo frame support
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[23:52:45] *** Mazon is now known as mazon
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[23:59:59] <Error_e^ipi> aww... maplesoft's not porting maple to solaris/x86





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