[00:00:11] <nrubsig> kAv_: what do you mean with "what settings" ?
[00:00:53] <kAv_> ah : you use tip from serial a->serial ultra 5 or some fancy term over another fancy concentrator
[00:01:00] <jamesd> UNIX command fights http://www.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/01/Canon%20Tosh%20SED.jpg
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[00:01:43] <nrubsig> kAv_: I use plain "tip". Problem is that tip does no ASCII--->UTF-8 translation which is slightly bad.
[00:02:42] <kAv_> well log yourself an rfe
[00:02:43] <kAv_> :D
[00:02:48] <kAv_> and get to work
[00:03:23] <nrubsig> anyone from sun awake ?
[00:03:34] <kAv_> lol
[00:03:39] <kAv_> you want them to log it for you
[00:03:40] <kAv_> ?
[00:03:48] <nrubsig> no
[00:04:50] <nrubsig> kAv_: just my bad experience with bugs filed at bugs.opensolaris.org getting lost.
[00:05:11] <nrubsig> kAv_: I want someone around to confirm that the bug has been recorded.
[00:06:22] <nrubsig> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/ksh93-integration/screenshots/gnaw_v8_anim_normal.gif
[00:06:50] <jamesd> it never looked that good in my tests
[00:07:04] <kAv_> thats no bug
[00:07:07] <kAv_> i want this
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[00:09:17] <UnixTitan> anyone know of an xchat package for solaris (not one on blastwave)
[00:09:29] <mrdeviant> interesting qualification
[00:09:46] <Error_404> you could build it yourself
[00:09:47] <nrubsig> mrdeviant: ?!
[00:10:00] <nrubsig> kAv_: you want... what ?
[00:10:11] <UnixTitan> Error_404: I could.
[00:10:46] <mrdeviant> nrubsig, the "not one on blastwavae"
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[00:14:43] <kAv_> nrubsig : the game...
[00:14:58] <kAv_> something totally funny
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[00:15:19] <kAv_> my neighbor opposite he has porn on his huge projector and he has the curtains open
[00:15:20] <kAv_> hahahah
[00:15:29] <Error_404> lol
[00:15:56] <nrubsig> kAv_: ask dduvall to close both eyes and accept it... then you'll see it even in OpenSolaris... :-)
[00:16:21] <kAv_> ok i shall assign it to him directly
[00:18:52] <nrubsig> kAv_: my comment was about the detail that a) dduvall is the gatekeeper (some omnipotent being who can deny or backout your code fron OS/Net) b) games are not allowed in Solaris
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[01:06:42] <lloy0706> !@#$
[01:06:54] <lloy0706> I'm trying to get GCC to pick up the COMPILER_PATH variable and it doesn't seem to be working.
[01:07:33] <lloy0706> Essentially, I think the "ld" in /usr/ucb/ld is giving me grief and I want it to use another ld (the one in /usr/sfw/i386-pc-solaris2.11/bin/ld
[01:08:40] <lloy0706> Kludge 1: Put the ld you want to use in the path; move the one you don't want to use sideways.
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[01:13:10] <dwc-> are you compiling gcc, or trying to use gcc
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[01:16:59] <lloy0706> Trying to use gcc.
[01:17:21] <lloy0706> Its man page claims that gcc will look through COMPILER_PATH to find programs.
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[01:17:43] <dwc-> if it can't find it using execprefix
[01:17:48] <lloy0706> Ah
[01:17:50] * lloy0706 sigh
[01:17:58] <dwc-> at least, that's my interpretation of it
[01:17:59] <lloy0706> gcc seems configurable to collapse
[01:18:14] <dwc-> never having used either option, I can't say ...
[01:18:35] <lloy0706> I've currently got a "kludge" running to see whether that will fix my problem.
[01:20:52] <lloy0706> Surely enough, it was /usr/ucb/ld that was causing the problem.
[01:21:13] <dwc-> why are you using /usr/ucb/ld
[01:21:27] <xea> by default solaris express install some kind of network time protocol software?
[01:21:34] <dwc-> versus say... /usr/ccs/bin/ld
[01:21:35] <lloy0706> dwc-: Because that's whtat /usr/sfw/bin/gcc decides to use.
[01:21:38] <xea> *installs and uses
[01:21:47] <lloy0706> Oops
[01:21:52] <dwc-> xea there should be an xntpd
[01:21:57] <lloy0706> foo /usr/ccs/bin/ld
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[01:22:07] <lloy0706> Excuse the foo,  my irc client wouldn't behave with the first /
[01:22:17] <kimc> just solved the problem with smf failing to start mysql
[01:22:28] <dclarke> nrubsig ?
[01:22:31] <kimc> 7 hrs later
[01:22:32] <xea> dwc-: and is it normal if i do a full installation and neither svcs nor ps -ef does not list it ?
[01:22:46] <dwc-> xea: you can configure it in ... /etc/inet
[01:22:54] <dwc-> war [6] svcs ntp
[01:22:55] <dwc-> STATE          STIME    FMRI
[01:22:55] <dwc-> online         Nov_15   svc:/network/ntp:default
[01:23:03] <xea> dwc-: so it only installs but not runs, thank you
[01:23:28] <dwc-> iirc, you have to configure it by giving it one of those ntp.conf files
[01:23:45] <dwc-> I think in a more ideal world, it might come with one setup to pool.ntp.org maybe
[01:23:50] * dclarke wanders away
[01:26:22] <onbot> commit by jb145095:  6465368 panic[cpu0]/thread=30008dd0040: lock_set_spl: 30000861 - S10U3B4 with one cpu; 6489365 qcn panics with recursive mutex_enter
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[01:29:19] <Kmays> You mainly want to get the latest Xorg 7.1/7.2 graphic drivers, but the Nvidia driver for Solaris is great.
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[02:14:46] <nrubsig> dclarke: pong!
[02:16:06] <nrubsig> dclarke: pong!
[02:18:04] <nrubsig> dclarke: dccccaaaaaaaarrrrkkkllleee!!
[02:18:18] * nrubsig jumps and yells to wake dclarke up.
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[02:33:47] <nrubsig> dclarke: pong!
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[02:37:49] * Tpenta wonders why roland is farting in dennises general direction (well directing pongs at him anyway)
[02:38:26] <nrubsig> farting ?
[02:38:59] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig
[02:39:18] <nrubsig> Tpenta: I didn't eat onions for a while...
[02:39:32] <Tpenta> well you were directing pongs to him :)
[02:39:48] <Tpenta> pong: bad smell
[02:42:46] <nrubsig> well
[02:43:29] <nrubsig> I could get a ticket for a plane to canada, eat 2kg onions, take the plane and then wait in front of dclarke's house to spray my gas...
[02:43:44] <nrubsig> ... but why ? I don't want him to suffer&&die...
[02:47:58] <Tpenta> :-D
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[02:49:53] <Doc> umm.. "unplanned" outage to patch 4 systems
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[02:51:11] <postwait_> I'm trying to trace I/O writes in my app using dtrace.
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[02:51:20] <edwardocallaghan> Hi all
[02:51:31] <postwait_> However, most of the writes I see are coming from sched
[02:52:34] <edwardocallaghan> boyd, jamesd dclarke delewis and all...
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[03:00:15] <hile_> hmm.. who opped nrubsig?
[03:00:45] <nrubsig> hile_: I did... why ?
[03:00:57] <hile_> oh, i was just curious.
[03:01:07] <hile_> didn't know chanserv decided you were an op
[03:01:39] <nrubsig> hile_: I did a self-punishment and deop'ed myself for a few hours after accidently flooding the channels with tons of smileys
[03:01:50] <kAv_> accidently?
[03:01:54] <kAv_> be honest now
[03:01:57] <nrubsig> yes
[03:02:02] <kAv_> and you didnt even do it in colors
[03:02:03] <nrubsig> clipboard
[03:02:17] <kAv_> sub standard flooding if you ask me
[03:02:41] <nrubsig> kAv_: I did copy&paste,paste,paste and didn't realise the amount of pasting
[03:03:04] <edwardocallaghan> what?
[03:03:27] <nrubsig> kAv_: sounds like you think I shoud be punished further, right ?
[03:03:50] * kAv_ hides and puts on the UVB glasses
[03:04:01] <nrubsig> kAv_: ?!
[03:04:31] <kAv_> (glasses for the colors-- i was expecting this)
[03:05:13] <kAv_> its 3 am and i need to wake up in 5 hrs what do you expect
[03:05:22] <kAv_> nn people
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[03:11:25] <edwardocallaghan> You know ZFS lacks transparent encryption, is this coming and if so where ?
[03:11:32] <_syphilis_> yes, it's being worked on
[03:11:37] <edwardocallaghan> Where?
[03:11:38] <_syphilis_> see the zfs-crypto project
[03:11:50] <edwardocallaghan> Thanks
[03:13:37] <edwardocallaghan> Great thanks, will it be part of the standard zfs package when its stable
[03:13:42] <_syphilis_> yes
[03:14:06] <edwardocallaghan> Cool, last question. When do you think that will be; Solaris 11 ?
[03:14:19] <_syphilis_> i don't know
[03:14:38] <_syphilis_> well, i'm sure it'll be in S11.. but i don't know if it might appear before then
[03:14:47] <edwardocallaghan> Oh ok
[03:14:52] <edwardocallaghan> Oh good !
[03:15:33] <edwardocallaghan> Good stuff
[03:17:56] <edwardocallaghan> Right I am going to get started on a Gnome GUI for ZFS so a home user can use it
[03:18:02] <edwardocallaghan> What's do you guys think?
[03:18:25] <_syphilis_> i think you might want to work with the vpanels project, or however it's called
[03:18:46] <_syphilis_> they're working on a web interface, but the idea is to have an interface-agnostic library so people can write other frontends
[03:18:49] <_syphilis_> (it's an SMC replacement)
[03:19:26] <_syphilis_> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/vpanels/
[03:19:44] <Tpenta> here's a nice little cmd line for you; see if you can work out what it does without running it (I'm making use of it running it regularly at the moment):
[03:19:45] <Tpenta> $ (echo 0;(ls -ls solarisdvd.iso; sleep 10; ls -ls solarisdvd.iso) | awk '{print $6}'; echo --10/p) | dc
[03:19:50] <Triskelios> the existing zfs thingy for smc was pretty nice, as I recall...
[03:21:03] <edwardocallaghan>  dc - an arbitrary precision calculator
[03:21:18] <edwardocallaghan> What the hell ?
[03:21:21] <nrubsig> edwardocallaghan: soon be obsoleted.
[03:21:32] <Triskelios> edwardocallaghan: try playing around with the smc zfs interface if smc doesn't totally crush your machine
[03:21:39] <Tpenta> dc is an rpn calculator
[03:21:42] <Triskelios> edwardocallaghan, you mean bc?
[03:21:50] <_syphilis_> edw: dc is like bc but it uses rpn
[03:21:56] <Tpenta> useful when you have things being spurted into a pipeline that you want to do maths on
[03:21:58] <_syphilis_> bc is actually a frontend to bc, it emits dc expressions
[03:22:05] <_syphilis_> er, i mean bc is a frontend to dc
[03:22:10] <edwardocallaghan> no your | ing your command set into dc
[03:22:18] <nrubsig> Tpenta: I guess we can obsolete the use of "bc" and "dc" in the future... :-)
[03:22:23] <Tpenta> the output of it
[03:22:29] <edwardocallaghan> Does that count the files in solarisdvd.iso ?
[03:22:46] <Tpenta> solarisdvd.iso is the iso of biuld55
[03:22:47] <Stric> it checks the download speed of solarisdvd.iso with 10 second intervals
[03:22:50] <Tpenta> it's a file
[03:22:56] <Tpenta> stric: bingo
[03:23:11] <Tpenta> I got tired of cuttign and pasting the numbers into bc
[03:23:37] <nrubsig> Tpenta: you use the wrong shell... :-)
[03:24:00] <Stric> Tpenta: interesting that you use the 's' option to ls, but don't use its output.. ;)
[03:24:02] <Tpenta> nrubsig: $ echo $SHELL
[03:24:03] <Tpenta> /bin/ksh
[03:24:06] <Triskelios> a nicer way is to wget to stdout and pipe through pv, but pv isn't a standard tool
[03:24:09] <edwardocallaghan> arr wget and it tells you ?
[03:24:28] <Triskelios> doh... or just use wget
[03:24:31] <nrubsig> Tpenta: I know. ksh93 supports floating-point math, ksh88 does not.
[03:24:43] <Tpenta> I'm actually using sftp as it gets past the bandwidth limiters for ftp in the punchin gateway ;)
[03:24:46] <edwardocallaghan> zsh
[03:24:49] 
[03:25:08] <Tpenta> nrubsig: and you are going to et the file sizes into ksh how? I think my cmd line is shorter than any way you could do it in ksh93
[03:25:30] * nrubsig wishes zsh would support multibyte locales propperly.
[03:25:40] <Stric> Tpenta: du is shorter than 'ls -ls' ;)
[03:25:51] <Tpenta> my cmd line will also work in /bin/sh (or csh, or tcsh, or bash, or pretty much anything), portability roland, portability
[03:26:00] <Stric> otoh, you need -k to make solaris' du to behave :/
[03:26:03] <Tpenta> stric, yea, I could have done that
[03:26:21] <Stric> or just take that into account when dividing
[03:26:27] <Tpenta> then again I wanted a character count
[03:26:39] <_syphilis_> i wish ls -sh worked on solaris the same way it does on gnu ls
[03:26:44] <Stric> sftp is probably doing block writes anyhow ;)
[03:26:51] <_syphilis_> solaris seems to only apply -h to -l, not -s
[03:27:04] <Tpenta> damn, I shoudl have used sftp -C, buger bugger bugger
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[03:29:10] <edwardocallaghan> Well my GUI, I was thinking to add it to NexentaOS
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[03:35:03] <nrubsig> float c1 c2 ; ( function fz { ls -ls solarisdvd.iso | awk "{print \$6}" ; } ; c1=$(fz) ; sleep 1 ; c2=$(fz) ; print $(( c2 / c1 )))
[03:35:18] <nrubsig> Tpenta: not shorter than yours
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[03:35:46] <Tpenta> definitely more complex too
[03:36:05] <nrubsig> Tpenta: and the math is wrong
[03:36:12] <Tpenta> that should also be a sleep 10 ;)
[03:36:30] <Tpenta> yes, the math shoudl be (c2-c1)/10
[03:36:41] <nrubsig> oh
[03:36:43] <Tpenta> realistically that 10 shoudl also be a variable ;)
[03:37:41] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[03:37:52] <Tpenta> scripting can be fun ;)
[03:40:19] <nrubsig> ( fz() { ls -ls solarisdvd.iso | (read a b c d e f g ; print $f ) } ; c1=$(fz) ; sleep 1 ; c2=$(fz) ; print $(( (c2-c1)/10. )))
[03:40:25] <nrubsig> this saves the awk call
[03:40:31] <nrubsig> zero-fork()
[03:40:41] <Stric> perl -e 'while(1){$x=(stat("solarisdvd.iso"))[7];sleep 2;printf "%.1f\n",($x-$ox)/2;$ox=$x}'
[03:40:43] <Stric> zero-fork()
[03:40:55] <Stric> err. change the 2's to 10's
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[03:40:59] <nrubsig> grumble
[03:41:29] <edwardocallaghan> I don't have that much skill yet, I only just notice that people use sed on this IRC to change things
[03:41:55] <edwardocallaghan> lol $sed s/stupid/me/
[03:42:13] <Tpenta> :)
[03:42:15] <edwardocallaghan> Oh I should have a k on the end
[03:42:38] <nrubsig> (fz() {ls -ls solarisdvd.iso|(read a b c d e f g;print $f)};a=$(fz);sleep 1;b=$(fz);print $(((b-a)/10.)))
[03:42:51] <Stric> edwardocallaghan: last one who said stupid in here was you... yesterday.. and the one before that was.. you.. ;)
[03:43:12] <nrubsig> (z(){ls -ls solarisdvd.iso|(read a b c d e f g;print $f)};a=$(z);sleep 1;b=$(z);print $(((b-a)/10.)))
[03:43:19] <Stric> nrubsig: ditch the s to ls, ditch f and g (use $e instead then).. saves you 3 chars
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[03:43:38] <dclarke> would love to hang out and lurk here .. but I have to fight with the GNOME installer ..
[03:43:45] <dclarke> so .. hello all .. and toodles .. I have to run
[03:43:49] <nrubsig> dclarke: pong!
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[03:44:15] <Tpenta> interesting install thread dennis
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[03:44:45] <dclarke> nrubsig
[03:45:01] <nrubsig> dclarke: you had a question earlier today...
[03:45:09] <dclarke> nrubsig : I just wanted to get a gut feel report from you on how polaris.blastwave.org was working for you now
[03:45:51] <dclarke> Tpenta : I had a real tough day at an office in Toronot and the installer was shameful
[03:46:14] <Tpenta> i thought the prob was X, but anyway, you have my sympathy
[03:46:39] <dclarke> give your sympathy to all the Linux guys that were not impressed
[03:46:46] <edwardocallaghan> Stric:Meaning, sorry I am stupid
[03:46:47] <nrubsig> dclarke: svn genunix.org is working very well, no complaints.
[03:46:49] <Tpenta> that too
[03:46:54] <dclarke> not impressed that a SF6800 went into the server room
[03:46:59] <dclarke> SF6900 actually
[03:47:02] <Tpenta> there were (i think) some good comments/observatoins in that thread
[03:47:05] <nrubsig> dclarke: and we still need it for todays update to ast-ksh.2007-01-11
[03:47:05] <dclarke> some bloody expensive box
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[03:47:17] <Stric> edwardocallaghan: actually, you changed "I am so stupid for asking that user question" -> "I am so me for asking that user question"  :)
[03:47:23] <Tpenta> the 6900 is a nice size box
[03:47:32] <nrubsig> dclarke: ... but I guess you mean the "Trac"-browser, right ?
[03:47:51] <dclarke> nrubsig : whatever it was that was giving you grief .. I overhauled that box
[03:48:04] <edwardocallaghan> lol how do you remember that ?
[03:48:11] <Tpenta> relatively nice !/$ for a 48 way box
[03:48:13] <edwardocallaghan> Does this get logged some where?
[03:48:16] <Stric> edwardocallaghan: I didn't. my irc client did.
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[03:48:33] <edwardocallaghan> Sorry for wasting your HDD
[03:48:38] <edwardocallaghan> Poor thing
[03:48:41] <dclarke> Tpenta : yes .. its a real nice quick machine and for a reasonable pricetag the office is looking at tossing out a ton of Linux based PC's
[03:48:56] <Gr|ffous> dclarke, do you mind if I PM you about blastwave?
[03:48:59] <Stric> only ~400MB of bzip2'd logs so far
[03:49:10] <Stric> oh well, sleep time. bye
[03:49:19] <dclarke> Gr|ffous : drop me an email .. dclarke at blastwave dot org
[03:49:22] <nrubsig> dclarke: http://polaris.blastwave.org/log/on/branches/ksh93/gisburn/prototype004/?verbose=on is still loading... ;-(
[03:49:32] <dclarke> nrubsig : bugger :-(
[03:49:46] <nrubsig> dclarke: hey
[03:49:53] <nrubsig> dclarke: Trac 10.0
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[03:49:56] <nrubsig> HURRAY! :-)
[03:50:00] <dclarke> let me check to see how many threads are running
[03:50:06] <nrubsig> dclarke: thanks for the update :-)
[03:50:17] <nrubsig> dclarke: it finished loading here.
[03:50:35] <dclarke> took a week of work and Cory Omand from PIXAR and Craig Steinberger from Sun and then some $$ and we fixxed it
[03:50:58] <nrubsig> dclarke: maybe it needs a little bit longer to scan the database for a full Changelog
[03:51:16] <dclarke> actually one sec .. I need to get prstat -m running
[03:51:25] <dclarke> and also I want to see how much ram is using now
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[03:51:35] <dclarke> it was chewing on 700+ MB for httpd
[03:52:17] <dclarke> # mount -F ufs -o noatime /dev/dsk/c0t1d0s0 /mnt
[03:52:19] <nrubsig> dclarke: BTW: please don't mess around with svn.genunix.org today, please.
[03:52:35] <nrubsig> dclarke: I am doing the ast-ksh,2007-01.11 update right now.
[03:52:39] <dclarke> wow .. panic here
[03:52:44] <nrubsig> which means giant commits are coming.
[03:52:47] <nrubsig> dclarke: ?!
[03:52:50] <dclarke> syncing a file system .. dumping core
[03:52:58] <nrubsig> nooooo
[03:53:05] <dclarke> 5330 pages dumped
[03:53:14] <dclarke> resetting
[03:53:19] <dclarke> oh .. bugger
[03:53:25] <nrubsig> dclarke: your're kidding, right ?
[03:53:28] <dclarke> not that machine .. a different one here
[03:53:37] <dclarke> dead serious
[03:53:44] <nrubsig> dclarke: svn.genunix.org is safe ?
[03:54:00] <jamesd> nrubsig, svn.gununix.org is not his box
[03:54:06] <nrubsig> oh
[03:54:07] <nrubsig> ok
[03:54:09] <jamesd> nrubsig, he only runs  svn.blastwave.org
[03:54:10] <dclarke> its my domain only
[03:54:15] <nrubsig> jamesd: who own's that box ?
[03:54:20] <dclarke> and quite frankly .. its a joke
[03:54:26] <dclarke> Al Hopper
[03:54:30] <nrubsig> oh
[03:54:31] <jamesd> nrubsig, sun donated them actually...
[03:54:32] <nrubsig> ok
[03:54:37] <edwardocallaghan> dclark:Hi
[03:54:39] <dclarke> well .. Sun shipped him a deck of V20z units
[03:54:59] * nrubsig sobbs
[03:55:10] * nrubsig want want want Niagara box
[03:55:12] <nrubsig> want it
[03:55:15] <nrubsig> want it now
[03:55:19] 
[03:55:35] <dclarke> nrubsig : login to blastwave
[03:55:42] <dclarke> I'll hand ya the T2000
[03:55:51] <dclarke> have fun .. win awards and stay in touch
[03:55:54] <nrubsig> dclarke: which Solaris version is insalled ?
[03:56:01] <dclarke> s10u3
[03:56:13] * nrubsig crosses his eyes
[03:56:58] * nrubsig realises he sees things in double-vision...
[03:57:06] <edwardocallaghan> dclarke:Hi, do you remember about that site I would like to get up?
[03:57:12] * nrubsig falls him his chair...
[03:57:20] <dclarke> yeah yeah
[03:57:30] <dclarke> I'm ral busy tonight ..
[03:57:40] <dclarke> we can talk tomorrrow .. or better yet .. send me an email
[03:57:47] <dclarke> nrubsig : drop me an email
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[03:58:00] <dclarke> I'll hand ya a T2000 to work with for a while
[03:59:06] <nrubsig> dclarke: ok
[03:59:12] <nrubsig> dclarke: B51 would be nice (BTW)
[03:59:28] <nrubsig> dclarke: or better: I send you a spec if possible
[03:59:34] <edwardocallaghan> Wish I had a T2000
[03:59:56] <edwardocallaghan> dclarke:Do you get funded by Sun ?
[03:59:59] <dclarke> # ls -lap /var/crash/pluto/vmcore.0
[04:00:13] <dclarke> edward.... : no
[04:00:42] <dclarke> they loaned me a T2000 while I assess a GRID project
[04:00:59] <dclarke> the FAX says that they get it back in March
[04:01:48] <dclarke> one sec .. I have to run
[04:02:11] <jamesd> so its just about worthless.. by the time you put it to any real work they want it back...  i would of called them up and say please come and get this thing and get it out of my sight, and i hope you enjoy my blog entries about this joke...
[04:02:15] <dclarke> gotta run off to #blastwave
[04:02:38] * dclarke wonders why james is so bitter
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[04:03:02] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[04:03:20] <Triskelios> dclarke is a one-channel guy? =P
[04:03:38] <nrubsig> *grumpf*
[04:03:41] <edwardocallaghan> Unix admins have to be bitter, I am learning how at the moment
[04:03:47] <nrubsig> another core dump of ksh93 ;-(
[04:04:36] <edwardocallaghan> dclarke:Do you remember about that site?
[04:05:20] <edwardocallaghan> I'lld still like to start on that GUI front end to blastware pkg-add
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[04:07:43] <nrubsig> jamesd: what's your problem ?
[04:08:09] *** peteh has joined #opensolaris
[04:08:42] <jamesd> nrubsig, what you never get pissed off at sun people that dangle a carrot in front of your nose, and then yank it away just as you thought you were going to make forward progress?
[04:09:03] <edwardocallaghan> Man I need some nice person to host a small XOOPS, Joomla or some other nice CMS for me to start some projects off
[04:09:50] <nrubsig> jamesd: I hit that problem, too. But I don't feel "pissed", just sad.
[04:09:52] <edwardocallaghan> I think its great that they will give you there hardware to try
[04:10:15] <edwardocallaghan> Yes sad is the right word
[04:10:36] <edwardocallaghan> I must try there Ultra20M2
[04:11:28] <jamesd> edwardocallaghan, are you aware that blastwave is the #1 supplier of opensource software for all of solaris for all versions from solaris 8 onward, yet they don't support the project even though  millions of there customers use it.
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[04:13:02] <edwardocallaghan> yes and no
[04:13:13] <edwardocallaghan> To your two part question
[04:14:02] <edwardocallaghan> Sun is a bit funny on its software side but I think this new CEO is trying hard to sort things out
[04:14:39] <edwardocallaghan> Over all he has done some massive changes so far
[04:15:13] <edwardocallaghan> I don't like to complain to much if I can help it.
[04:15:33] <edwardocallaghan> Right, any one got some idea for a name to this GUI tool for ZFS ?
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[04:16:31] <jamesd> edwardocallaghan, besides  java, what exactly has  jonathan has done for software so far?   solaris was openned before jonathan was made ceo, and i think the open java movement was started before jonathan as well
[04:17:13] <edwardocallaghan> Zetabyte Manager (ZM).
[04:17:28] <jamesd> um.. that predated jonathan as well...
[04:17:44] <edwardocallaghan> jamesd:I though that you where not bitter but maybe you are ?
[04:17:57] <edwardocallaghan> I am talking about a name for my GUI
[04:18:10] <edwardocallaghan> Zetabyte Manager (ZM).
[04:18:23] <jamesd> yes jonathan is doing good thing with hardware, really most of it was started before he got control..  ceo's can't do much in a year in charge of a company with 30,000 employees that moving at full speed.
[04:18:43] <edwardocallaghan> Forget it jamesd
[04:18:48] <edwardocallaghan> Your digging
[04:19:03] <jamesd> i thought you were talking about a gui for blastwave software?
[04:19:23] <edwardocallaghan> Please lets carry on, on something more constructive
[04:19:49] <edwardocallaghan> Yes, I am waiting for dclarke to help with hosting for that
[04:20:16] <edwardocallaghan> What do you think of ZM as a name for a Gnome GUI tool for ZFS ?
[04:21:15] <edwardocallaghan> I want a name that Unix lads will think, who that sounds cool and home users will understands what it means
[04:21:26] <jamesd> i guess.. but i basicly think a gui for zfs is pointless.. how hard is it to type   zpool  create   raidz disk1 disk2 disk3   or  zfs set compress=on  pool.
[04:21:37] <movement> edwardocallaghan: traditional dictates 'zfstool'
[04:21:42] <edwardocallaghan> I'll have the normal about this tab in help though
[04:21:43] <movement> traditional naming that is
[04:22:07] <edwardocallaghan> Its not hard at all
[04:22:15] <edwardocallaghan> Any twat can do it
[04:22:34] <edwardocallaghan> But most 'home users' are twats, now I am the bitter one
[04:23:11] <xea> sorry for interrupting the conversation but i think if you (edwardocallaghan) really want to write a gui, maybe a gui for pkg-get would be more useful
[04:23:15] <jamesd> you know there is allready a zfs gui btw.
[04:23:28] <xea> as you mentioned before
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[04:23:52] <edwardocallaghan> I still think computers should have amateurs licenses like radio does
[04:24:30] <jamesd> edwardocallaghan, if everyone needs a license and a skill level, why create a gui so that an idiot can use them.
[04:24:35] <edwardocallaghan> Yes I would love to do that GUI for blastware but I have put it off for the moment
[04:25:37] <edwardocallaghan> Because some stupid person did not put these much needed licenses in place and you have a load of people ending up installing Linux on there computers
[04:25:56] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[04:26:09] <edwardocallaghan> Lets be constructive
[04:26:18] <edwardocallaghan> Please now can some one help with a good name
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[04:27:00] <xea> maybe you should name it 'zman' and after that create a superman like suit (zmaaan to the rescue? :)
[04:27:13] <edwardocallaghan> ZMS. Zeta Managing System
[04:27:41] <edwardocallaghan> Right so we have zman, ZMS oh the choices
[04:27:46] <edwardocallaghan> Come on guys
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[04:40:12] <edwardocallaghan> Oh I'll let you think on it then :/
[04:41:22] <LeftWing> Isn't there already a ZFS GUI?
[04:42:03] <jamesd> yes
[04:44:31] <edwardocallaghan> No not a web based one
[04:44:41] <edwardocallaghan> A GTK+ one
[04:44:51] <edwardocallaghan> That's what I want to work on
[04:44:58] <LeftWing> What's wrong with the web-based one?
[04:45:13] <edwardocallaghan> I don't think you guys are seeing the point
[04:45:36] <_syphilis_> what's wrong with vpanels?
[04:45:39] <edwardocallaghan> Oh, please just work out a name...
[04:45:42] <edwardocallaghan> Nothing
[04:45:44] <LeftWing> VPanels! That too!
[04:46:03] <edwardocallaghan> Something that makes sense to a home user
[04:46:10] <LeftWing> ...
[04:46:18] <LeftWing> Have you looked at VPanels?
[04:48:33] <edwardocallaghan> If nexenta is to take on the Linux distros then its killer apps under its hood like ZFS need to be a easy to use thing for a home user that's going to be the type that uses *buntu, Fedora or something
[04:49:18] <edwardocallaghan> Like the CUPS web based GUI is really good but people have made GTK+ versions
[04:49:31] <jamesd> edwardocallaghan, go ahead and compare linux LVM compared to ZFS any day of the week... not to mention that  lvm takes days to setup and zfs takes seconds even if you use the command line.
[04:49:32] <edwardocallaghan> For that very same home user
[04:50:33] <edwardocallaghan> jamesd: that is vedry bitter indeed I was not even comparing the two at all, if you think I was read agine or get your eye checked :O !
[04:51:00] <edwardocallaghan> s/eye/eyes
[04:51:05] <edwardocallaghan> /
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[04:51:12] <edwardocallaghan> Unless you have one ?
[04:51:17] <edwardocallaghan> ;p
[04:53:33] <edwardocallaghan> We know that ZFS is good, if I though it was not then why would I be working on a tool for it? But it would be nice if you ave. joe90 could use it on there desktop
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[04:53:50] <_syphilis_> a typical home user is going to have more problems than just zfs
[04:54:00] <_syphilis_> that's why vpanels is considering all areas of sysadmin
[04:54:15] <jteo> joe90 wants a Mac. but i digress.
[04:54:28] <_syphilis_> a JDS vpanels interface would be useful (assuming they aren't already planning that)
[04:55:35] <jteo> goodness the weather here makes me imagine how bad the weather in general must be in London.
[04:56:58] <nrubsig> where again are the console fonts stored on sparc ?
[04:59:18] <edwardocallaghan> Right well, I'll do it and then I can say you could not help with the name
[04:59:27] <edwardocallaghan> :p
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[05:09:17] <delewis> jamesd: LVM is actually easy to setup.
[05:09:42] <jamesd> delewis, not when compared to  zfs, and its not fast.
[05:09:53] <delewis> create physical volumes, create a volume group, add those physical volumes to the volume group, and create your logical volumes.
[05:10:09] <delewis> I was able to use LVM in 30 seconds, mostly because of my experience with the AIX LVM, which is almost identical in terms, etc.
[05:10:18] <delewis> jamesd: never claimed it was.
[05:10:43] <jamesd> delewis, but i was comparing lvm to zfs...  and you decided to contradict my statement...
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[05:11:03] <delewis> hey, it still needs fair treatment :-)
[05:11:10] <delewis> I'll be the first to admit that LVM sucks.
[05:11:15] <delewis> you can't even mirror with it
[05:11:28] <delewis> and the fact it lays on top of an inconsistent device naming convention doesn't help things, either.
[05:11:38] <edwardocallaghan> Edward wonders what's up with jamesd, who is comparing LVM to ZFS ?
[05:12:12] <jamesd> delewis, i have gave it fair treatment, i have compared it zfs numerous times and haven't had many claims that i wasn't accurate.
[05:12:21] <jamesd> er it to zfs
[05:12:41] <delewis> sure, but saying it takes days to setup isn't exactly accurate, though :-)
[05:12:51] <jamesd> <jamesd> edwardocallaghan, go ahead and compare linux LVM compared to ZFS any day of the week... not to mention that  lvm takes days to setup and zfs takes seconds even if you use the command line.
[05:12:57] <delewis> and that's just begging to be shot down by some LVM zealot, which would make the rest of what you say not credible.
[05:13:35] <jamesd> http://uadmin.blogspot.com/2006/05/why-zfs-for-home.html
[05:15:43] <Doc> and of course, the 2nd command there is optional
[05:15:59] <Doc> zpool automatically creates a filesystem
[05:16:17] <edwardocallaghan> When did I compare them jamesd ?
[05:16:26] <Doc> plus veritas _is_ free for home users
[05:16:43] <delewis> Doc: very watered-down, that is :-)
[05:16:53] <Doc> right, which is all a home user is going to need, no?
[05:16:57] <edwardocallaghan> I think you need your eyes looking to ? Put up your refresh rate above 2Hz !
[05:17:01] <jamesd> <edwardocallaghan>  If nexenta is to take on the Linux distros then its killer apps under its hood like ZFS need to be a easy to use thing for a home user that's going to be the type that uses *buntu, Fedora or something
[05:17:10] <delewis> Doc: I'm a home user, and I've got a Photon, so yeah -- limited VxVM wouldn't cut it.
[05:17:29] <jteo> most home users don't have a Photon.
[05:17:42] <Doc> jteo: do you have data to support that claim?
[05:17:50] <edwardocallaghan> So that's not comaring them at all jamesd, don't know what's going on in that mind of yours ?
[05:18:03] <delewis> jteo: most home users that are interested in storage probably want one :-)
[05:18:16] <edwardocallaghan> s/comaring/comparing/
[05:18:23] <jamesd> edwardocallaghan, so if you are going to compare  zfs with linux the closest you can get is lvm...
[05:18:33] <edwardocallaghan> I am not
[05:18:44] <edwardocallaghan> You are not getting the point of what I said
[05:18:48] <jteo> Doc: true. I'm guessing. ;)
[05:18:52] <edwardocallaghan> Read agine please
[05:19:03] <Doc> jteo :)
[05:19:19] <jamesd> i am getting the point, but you don't understand  that if someone is going to want zfs,  they would be looking at lvm.
[05:19:41] <jamesd> if they were going to use linux.
[05:19:44] <delewis> you really can't even begin to compare LVM to ZFS.
[05:19:49] <edwardocallaghan> nope you have not got the point at all
[05:19:51] <delewis> LVM by itself is pretty useless
[05:19:54] <delewis> you can't even mirror with it
[05:19:59] <delewis> all you can do is stripe and concatenate.
[05:20:14] <delewis> if you want to do mirroring, you have to create a metadisk with mdtools
[05:20:44] <delewis> this is a problem, because mdtools don't label the disks they use, so they have no way of keeping track of them with the inconsistent Linux device naming convention.
[05:20:48] <jamesd> and most home users don't want mirror... that is too costly.. they want raid5...
[05:20:57] <delewis> jamesd: that's still a problem.
[05:21:07] <delewis> you have to use mdtools to create a RAID5 metadisk
[05:21:12] <delewis> and it still suffers from the same problem.
[05:22:07] <edwardocallaghan> I will give you my point agine: If nexenta is to show all the great things that Solaris can do then to a home user then it needs little GUIs to do it inc. ZFS but not limited too. Just like Fedora has done with Xen. So you did not get the point at all
[05:23:32] <edwardocallaghan> Its a show case tool only to cover basic things.
[05:23:46] <jamesd> edwardocallaghan, and i say its a bunch of crap that users need bloated guis for things as simple as zfs....  and home users don't want xen it just makes things worse because each vhost is like admining another box that they can't even handle one box...
[05:23:53] <edwardocallaghan> Like the little GUI for Xen Red Hat have done
[05:24:44] <edwardocallaghan> Right and that's why Fedora is number 3 on distrowatch and nexenta is like ...
[05:25:32] <wizeman> I think "home" users usually just install Linux normally and let the distros handle the filesystems themselves
[05:25:41] <edwardocallaghan> I don't like GUI's myself but your shooting yourself in the foot while being bitter about it
[05:25:42] <jamesd> nexenta is alpha ware...incase you didn't notice there version number is ALPHA 6... and fedora is stable...  and fedora has been around for 3 years...
[05:26:03] <edwardocallaghan> Yes true
[05:26:12] <wizeman> I know a lot of people that simply use the GUIs to resize NTFS partitions and let the distros handle the free space
[05:26:15] <edwardocallaghan> And yes I did notice I have a install of 6
[05:26:24] <wizeman> (during installation)
[05:26:43] <wizeman> they don't even know what kind of filesystems there are
[05:26:46] <jamesd> of course  solairs has 6 million licensed users....
[05:27:23] <edwardocallaghan> Yes, I know and that's what would be nice for /home on nexenta and let home users manage there little zpool on /home with this little tool
[05:27:36] <wizeman> people who know about filesystems usually can handle simple console commands
[05:28:03] <wizeman> although GUIs are always nice when implemented correctly
[05:28:04] <Tekni> i thought zfs already had a gui
[05:28:21] <edwardocallaghan> Yes I am talking about a GTK+ one
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[05:28:45] <jamesd> edwardocallaghan, most users only need 2 commands to create and manage  zfs for /home,   zpool create home slice1   ; zfs set compress=on  home
[05:29:05] <Tekni> nexenta is creating a zfs /home now in alpha6+ by default
[05:29:30] <edwardocallaghan> Yes I think so too wizeman, I am just looking for idea's but jamesd is not doing anything constructive
[05:29:35] <wizeman> the fact is: almost *all* of my friends twitch their nose when they see me using any command on a console :p
[05:29:42] <edwardocallaghan> Yes its nice I know
[05:29:57] <edwardocallaghan> Also you can now live upgrade with apt-get
[05:30:29] <edwardocallaghan> wizeman:that's the point I am trying to make
[05:30:44] <edwardocallaghan> People see a black screen and run
[05:30:49] <wizeman> I'm talking about people who are taking one of the most respected computer eng. courses in my country
[05:30:58] <jamesd> so while you are protecting all these users from the command line what happens when the machine breaks and they need command line or they won't be able to repair the damage.
[05:31:21] <Tekni> edwardocallaghan: the only way solaris should be put in front of people like that is via an ISP who ships them a Sun Ray
[05:31:29] <edwardocallaghan> They come and pay people like us
[05:31:32] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[05:31:35] <Tekni> no, seriously
[05:31:37] <wizeman> jamesd: depends on your definition of "machine breaks" :p
[05:31:46] <jamesd> get them used to running a couple commands here or there and they will be more likely to handle it when the emergency arises..
[05:31:51] <delewis> if you think ZFS is difficult to use, you should try VxVM or the AIX LVM.
[05:31:57] <jamesd> i meant the OS breaks.. such as out of space on / ...
[05:32:20] <wizeman> jamesd: no need for a command line for that
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[05:32:38] <wizeman> a simple file explorer does the job
[05:32:44] <jamesd> wizeman, if  the gui refuses to start, there is no way to fix without a command line.
[05:32:49] <edwardocallaghan> Mate this is the real world sorry, people don't know that the word command means lol
[05:33:26] <wizeman> true
[05:33:32] <jamesd> then linux and solaris has lost  the desktop.. give up now...
[05:33:43] <wizeman> what happens on Windows when the disks fills up?
[05:33:53] <Tekni> jamesd: it hasn't lost... someone just needs to do what I'm suggesting
[05:33:54] <delewis> edwardocallaghan: that's not the sort of audience Unix is meant for.
[05:33:59] <wizeman> I think the gui should start up fine
[05:34:00] <edwardocallaghan> jamesd:If your just going to wast your time crying about it then please talk about something else to your preferences
[05:34:07] <delewis> Unix has always been primarily for programmers and other technical users.
[05:34:17] <delewis> not end-users.
[05:34:32] <wizeman> delewis: why not change that?
[05:34:54] <wizeman> if UNIX is better than Windows from a technical point of view
[05:34:54] <jamesd> edwardocallaghan, i'm not crying, just filling my saturday night having a discussion.
[05:35:03] <wizeman> why shouldn't end-users experience the benefits
[05:35:22] <edwardocallaghan> yes I agree wizeman
[05:35:33] <delewis> wizeman: you'd be turning it into something else.
[05:35:42] <delewis> and you should just accept the fact that everything has a place.
[05:35:55] <wizeman> delewis: something like Linux + KDE or gnome? :P
[05:35:56] <delewis> Windows is excellent for end-users, whether or not you want to admit it.
[05:36:04] <wizeman> I know it is
[05:36:08] <Tekni> windows is overkill for end users
[05:36:14] <delewis> Tekni: indeed.
[05:36:19] <delewis> end-users should have web appliances.
[05:36:19] <Doc> excellent? no
[05:36:27] <Doc> better than other options - perhaps (today)
[05:36:28] <Tekni> delewis: that's what i'm getting at :)
[05:36:29] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[05:36:43] <LeftWing> The Mac isn't such a bad option.
[05:36:51] <Tekni> sunray, CAM mode, WebOS from the ISP
[05:37:00] <edwardocallaghan> Its got nothing to do with it, its only because people start with windows
[05:37:11] <Doc> tekni: can i download movies with it?
[05:37:16] <Doc> can i upload my digital photos with it?
[05:37:23] <delewis> LeftWing: and that brings up another point. If you truly want to make Unix and end-user operating system, you'd end up tacking on all the additions that OS X has.
[05:37:24] <Tekni> Doc: maybe and yes
[05:37:35] <Doc> how do you upload digital photos with a sunray?
[05:37:47] <LeftWing> Doc: moderately painfully. ;)
[05:37:50] <jamesd> what happens when the isp looses my check and i can't access my check book program to prove that i sent them the check since they cut my account.
[05:37:57] <Doc> not to mention video
[05:38:12] <Tekni> Doc: there are still some challenges, but it's getting closer
[05:38:21] <edwardocallaghan> lol @jamesd last comm
[05:38:24] <Doc> the internet has changed enough in the past few years in a way that isn't compatible with the isp-provided-sunray-rather-than-a-PC concept
[05:38:31] <Doc> for _most_ people (but certainly not all)
[05:38:32] <delewis> Tekni: Multics-rehashed.
[05:38:33] <jamesd> Doc,  usb flash drive or usb to card memory card...
[05:38:44] <Doc> jamesd: hahaha
[05:38:45] <Tekni> good broadband everywhere is the biggest I think
[05:38:48] <delewis> the idea of distributed, remote computing services has been around for 40 years.
[05:38:52] <delewis> and look at where it's gone.
[05:39:01] <Doc> should only take about 5 minutes per photo, at the rate sunray USB works
[05:39:29] <edwardocallaghan> I am a big believer of thin clients
[05:39:34] <Tekni> i'm going to bed.. niters :)
[05:39:35] <jamesd> Doc, so fix the sunray...
[05:39:42] <delewis> edwardocallaghan: so am I, but for the right reason in the right environment.
[05:40:10] <edwardocallaghan> But that's the point of the sun ray, easy for the end user. GUI ect...
[05:40:12] <delewis> environments that have tons of local users and require lots of access points are ideal for Sun Rays./
[05:40:15] <edwardocallaghan> Yes correct
[05:40:29] <edwardocallaghan> Like the NHS should have it in the UK !
[05:40:34] <delewis> I've been trying to get my university interested in Sun Rays.
[05:40:48] <delewis> because we've got a ton of Windows workstations and a dedicated IT staff to maintain them
[05:40:53] <edwardocallaghan> But they buy a load of crap instead and its blows up in there face
[05:41:07] <delewis> unfortunately, I doubt it'll go anywhere, because those IT employees (and their friends) are afraid they'd lose their jobs.
[05:41:10] <delewis> and rightly so.
[05:41:19] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[05:41:48] <delewis> "Yes, it would save us huge operating costs, but we can't get rid of Bill..."
[05:41:49] <edwardocallaghan> Right I better carry on with this GUI
[05:41:56] <delewis> or Bob, or Jill, or Sally.
[05:42:02] <jamesd> good night all.. i just got a better offer, and she is cute and bunette....  and human...
[05:42:07] <edwardocallaghan> Yes Sally...
[05:42:37] <edwardocallaghan> Can't get her out my flat.....
[05:43:02] <edwardocallaghan> Any one here got a scaner ?
[05:43:25] <edwardocallaghan> s/scaner/scanner/
[05:44:57] <delewis> buy a T2000, 100 Sun Rays and that'd amount to about $50k not counting education discounts Sun might give
[05:45:16] <delewis> considering we upgrade those 100 Windows workstations on a 2-year basis.. that'd be a huge savings.
[05:45:37] <Doc> a single T2000 wont drive 100 sunrays
[05:45:46] <delewis> drop in another T2000 for redundancy and you'd still save a ton of cash.
[05:45:58] <delewis> Doc: true, but all of those Sun Rays wouldn't be used simultaneously.
[05:46:01] <Doc> not to mention that you'd be stupid to setup that size infrastructure with zero redundency
[05:46:06] <delewis> that's counting the 3 labs we have and all of the professors' offices.
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[05:47:05] <delewis> Doc: what'd cover it? something in the mid-range class?
[05:47:30] <delewis> most of the workload would probably be StarOffice and Mozilla :-)
[05:47:34] <Doc> depends what you're running.  command-line only, web/mail only, video streaming, etc
[05:47:45] <delewis> Doc: Thunderbird, StarOffice, Mozilla.
[05:47:56] <delewis> 95% of the users would be non-technical.
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[05:55:14] <edwardocallaghan> Good night all
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[07:00:14] <dclarke> hello
[07:02:48] <dclarke> gisburn ?
[07:02:51] <delewis> greetings, dclarke
[07:02:59] <dclarke> Derek .. hello
[07:03:24] <dclarke> for a small giggle .. see http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/1999/12/msg00626.html
[07:04:04] <dclarke> oops .. baby intr here
[07:04:06] <dclarke> brb
[07:05:30] <dclarke> re
[07:07:06] <delewis> dclarke: I just really don't care for the direction a lot of the Linux distributions are taking, as in making "usability" a priority (usability in terms of non-technical users) for Windows-desktop replacement. I wouldn't want to see Solaris head down that route.
[07:07:26] <delewis> and if you think the Solaris installer is bad, you'd love the AIX installer :-)
[07:07:29] <dclarke> I agree
[07:07:42] <dclarke> never seen that installer
[07:07:48] <delewis> it's not much of an installer.
[07:08:00] <dclarke> the terminal based text installer for Solaris seems to work well
[07:08:03] <delewis> you can customize your install set somewhat, but you don't do disk layout (for a very good reason).
[07:08:10] <dclarke> it has a few quirks .. but its "okay"
[07:08:25] <delewis> the entire root filesystem is encapsulated in an AIX LVM volume group whose logical volumes are as small as possible.
[07:08:26] <dclarke> the grapical installer for Solaris is just horrible if you are using CDROMs
[07:08:31] <delewis> so you enlarge them as you need
[07:08:48] <delewis> the benefit of this is that your disk space is used more efficiently, as you're only growing when you need it.
[07:09:15] <dclarke> is there a partition table on the disk ?
[07:09:24] <dclarke> a BSD type partition or similar ?
[07:09:59] <delewis> yeah, it's basically the same as what you see with VxVM. VxVM just uses the whole disk (slice 2). The AIX LVM does the same for the install disk.
[07:10:30] <dclarke> traditional Solaris sets aside slice 2 also
[07:10:39] <dclarke> its gets tagged as a backup slice
[07:10:46] <dclarke> whatever that means anymore
[07:11:57] <dclarke> hrmm .. my test box here had a panic during a mount operation
[07:12:18] <dclarke> just tried to mount a ufs filesystem after a fsck and whammo .. panic and down she went
[07:12:22] <dclarke> quite odd
[07:12:38] <delewis> what's the stack trace look like?
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[07:12:51] <dclarke> let me post it .. one sec
[07:13:52] <dclarke> its a tad OT for this forum however
[07:14:00] <dclarke> this is Solaris 8
[07:14:13] <LeftWing> I don't think that matters hugely. =P
[07:16:10] <dclarke> http://rafb.net/p/WuC7TX89.html
[07:17:17] <delewis> dclarke: ouch, haven't seen that one before.
[07:17:23] <dclarke> ufs_fault
[07:17:33] <delewis> did you get the filesystem sanitized, afterwards?
[07:17:42] <dclarke> that machine is very up to date patchwise also
[07:18:03] <dclarke> after the machine reset .. I ran fsck -F ufs -Y /dev/rdsk/c0t1d0s0
[07:18:06] <dclarke> that was clean
[07:18:16] <dclarke> then mount -F ufs -o noatime /mnt
[07:18:19] <dclarke> no problem
[07:18:36] <delewis> I've seen UltraSPARC-I and -II systems do funky things occasionally.
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[07:18:58] <delewis> I had a panic on my Ultra 2 the other day, but it was a memory/cache-related issue, given the UltraSPARC-I and -II caches are parity only.
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[07:19:17] <dclarke> this machine is stable as a rock .. I thought
[07:20:38] <dclarke> http://rafb.net/p/N9AXgS22.html
[07:22:02] <dclarke> that filesystem has my snv_52 jumpstart contents
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[07:23:30] <benignbala> hello.... i cannot to Internet from opensolaris.... I use BSNL braodband (I am in India).I use an ehternat card to connect the modem to my system..... can anybody help?
[07:23:39] <dclarke> yes
[07:23:51] <dclarke> do you use dhcp ?
[07:23:56] <dclarke> or a static IP ?
[07:24:03] <benignbala> yes.....i use dhcp
[07:24:14] <benignbala> actually now i am in GNU/Linux....
[07:24:23] <dclarke> what interface do you have working right now ?
[07:24:23] <benignbala> it auto detects my modem ....
[07:24:37] <dclarke> GNU/Linux ?
[07:24:42] <dclarke> Nexenta ?
[07:24:42] <benignbala> in GNU/Linux i call it eth0
[07:24:56] <benignbala> i don get u.....please i am new to open solaris...
[07:25:05] <benignbala> jus installe dit....
[07:25:12] <benignbala> *installed
[07:25:12] <dclarke> what does uname -a  report ?
[07:25:31] <dclarke> type "uname -a"  and hit enter
[07:25:43] <benignbala> sir, i am now in my GNU/Linux as i cant connect to net from opensolaris....
[07:26:04] <dclarke> okay .. I don't understand what you need
[07:26:11] <dclarke> let's try again
[07:26:15] <benignbala> so i have to log off try it.. then log off from open solaris and relogin to linux t do that
[07:26:16] * delewis wonders what else Linux could possibly be
[07:26:34] <dclarke> oh geez
[07:26:35] <delewis> the GNU/Linux term is kind of redundant.
[07:27:08] <dclarke> delewis :  I thouhgt maybe he was on GNU/OpenSolaris
[07:27:18] <dclarke> delewis :  oh well ...
[07:28:08] <benignbala> i am on my GNU/Linux system... GNU/Linux because Linux is the kernel and the utilities are from GNU....So i don feel it is redundant
[07:28:36] <benignbala> dclarke: but what is GNU/opensolaris
[07:28:55] <delewis> benignbala: an OpenSolaris distribution with a GNU userland.
[07:29:04] <dclarke> it is an OpenSolaris distro
[07:29:21] <dclarke> not really Solaris .. its a new thing
[07:29:28] <benignbala> where is it available? i use the SUN's opensolaris....
[07:29:39] <delewis> benignbala: there's only one Solaris.
[07:29:41] <delewis> er
[07:29:44] <delewis> OpenSolaris, that is.
[07:29:49] <benignbala> ok.... i get it....
[07:29:54] <delewis> but there are a multitude of OpenSolaris-based distributions, including Solaris.
[07:30:24] <benignbala> delewis: ok..i understand.... but my problem... what could it be.....
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[07:30:45] * dclarke does not understand the problem
[07:30:47] <delewis> what kind of NIC do you have?
[07:31:05] <benignbala> a 100 mbps ethernet card...
[07:31:15] <delewis> well, nevermind, you said the NIC was detected right? (as in it shows up in your ifconfig output)
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[07:31:34] <benignbala> yes.. in GNU/Linux
[07:31:37] <delewis> benignbala: you don't know the chipset?
[07:31:39] * delewis sigh
[07:31:46] <delewis> does it show up in *Solaris*?
[07:31:51] <benignbala> chipset of the NIC?
[07:31:59] <delewis> yes
[07:32:12] <benignbala> delewis: no....sorry
[07:32:24] * dclarke reaches for scotch
[07:32:25] <delewis> alright, but does it show up in Solaris' ifconfig output?
[07:32:36] * delewis asks for a glass-full
[07:32:41] <benignbala> delewis: no.... thats is the problem....
[07:32:52] <benignbala> how do i confiure it?
[07:33:04] <benignbala> will ifconfig eth0 up work here?
[07:33:07] * dclarke gets a tall glass .. no ice for delewis
[07:33:22] <delewis> benignbala: no, Solaris doesn't use that naming scheme
[07:33:31] <benignbala> delewis: ok...ok....
[07:33:46] <delewis> what does Linux report the chipset as?
[07:33:51] <benignbala> i will try and get back with the exact ifconfig result....
[07:34:02] <benignbala> thanks..
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[07:34:08] <delewis> ...
[07:34:37] <delewis> so much for efficient problem determination.
[07:34:56] <delewis> given he didn't know the chipset and he was already in Linux, he could've determined the chipset of the NIC.
[07:35:22] <ShadowHntr> www.gnusolaris.org
[07:35:23] <ShadowHntr> :)
[07:35:25] <delewis> so now, he's going to come back and paste me ifconfig output that contains a loopback interface and nothing else, as we all expected.
[07:35:40] <delewis> and then it'll take an additional 10 or so minutes for him to determine the chipset once he boots back into Linux.
[07:35:43] <ShadowHntr> oh whoops
[07:35:55] * dclarke tops up delewis's glass with 25 year old scotch
[07:36:15] <delewis> dclarke: thanks :-)
[07:36:29] <dclarke> the least I could do
[07:36:40] <dclarke> no one should face stuff like that .. sober
[07:36:57] <delewis> it could be worse
[07:37:08] <delewis> we haven't had a lot of "Convince me why I should use Solaris" users lately.
[07:37:13] <dclarke> yep .. it could and I suspect that it will be
[07:37:37] <dclarke> yeah .. the ones running around saysing "Sun is dead" sort of got tired
[07:37:44] <dclarke> back in 2004 or 2005
[07:37:57] <delewis> dclarke: I'm still running into them in other communities.
[07:38:11] <dclarke> me too .. but they are far fewer
[07:38:22] <dclarke> they don't instantly start snickering
[07:38:24] <delewis> I've got my "Sun is *not* dead speech" down to 3 paragraphs now.
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[07:38:56] <dclarke> back when I walked into a trade show with a Solaris 9 boot CDROM and asked people to boot there hardware with it .. they practically called out to one another to point out the loser
[07:39:30] <delewis> I basically start off disupting the fact that Sun is still exclusively a RISC vendor and note the quality of the AMD64 hardware they're booting out. Then I mention the direction SPARC is taken as far as massive threading, etc. Lastly, the Solaris 10 technologies and how no one else seems to have them.
[07:39:35] <dclarke> I may as well have been walking around with an OS/2 Warp CDROM
[07:40:03] <delewis> putting*
[07:40:08] * delewis can't type tonight
[07:40:17] <delewis> dclarke: yeah, been there, done that.
[07:40:20] <dclarke> yeah .. its okay
[07:40:45] * dclarke passes over the whole damn bottle of Glen Morangie
[07:41:58] <delewis> and I love pointing out the fact that SPARC hardware remains usable for a very long time. That Ultra 80 has no problems running JDS.
[07:42:19] <dclarke> yep .. and I have an Ultra 2 here
[07:42:28] <dclarke> runs great ..
[07:42:33] <dclarke> has snv_52 on it
[07:42:33] <delewis> 4x450MHz procs and 2GB of memory will still do some damage.
[07:42:40] <dclarke> hey .. does your guy need RAM ?
[07:42:53] <delewis> dclarke: yeah, got one of those here, too, along with a Blade 1000 and E4500
[07:43:00] <delewis> dclarke: sure, got a 1GB kit laying around?
[07:43:07] <dclarke> the Ultra 80 needs particular RAM
[07:43:09] <dclarke> yes
[07:43:14] <dclarke> as a matter of fact .. I do
[07:43:25] <dclarke> in my desk drawer
[07:43:31] <delewis> yeah, right now, he's only got 2GB of memory in it, and you can max an Ultra 80 out to 4GB.
[07:43:34] <delewis> dclarke: sweet :-)
[07:43:43] <delewis> give me a price and I'll relay it to him
[07:43:46] <dclarke> the exact part numbers for an Ultra 80 or E420R
[07:43:49] <dclarke> same motherboard
[07:43:52] <delewis> right
[07:44:02] <dclarke> price ?
[07:44:15] <dclarke> dunno .. shipping costs plus a bottle of great scotch ?
[07:44:18] <dclarke> :-)
[07:44:28] <delewis> hah
[07:44:45] <delewis> I'm sure he'd be interested in the kit.
[07:44:49] <dclarke> let me check .. I have not seen those DIMMs in a year at least
[07:44:54] <delewis> alright.
[07:45:05] * dclarke opens desk drawers ..
[07:45:16] * dclarke thinks oooh .. lint
[07:46:06] <_syphilis_> dclarke / delewis: one of you needs to change nick.  far too confusing when you're both here
[07:46:13] <delewis> _syphilis_: :-)
[07:46:26] * dclarke doesn't get it
[07:46:49] <_syphilis_> dclarke: your nicks are the same length and both start d?l :)
[07:46:58] <dclarke> oh ..
[07:47:06] <dclarke> well ... this is my name
[07:47:10] * delewis guesses dclarke's senses have disipated as the result of alcohol consumption.
[07:47:11] <dclarke> and .. thats his
[07:47:38] <dclarke> woo hoo ..
[07:47:57] <dclarke> found an Adaptec AHA-7880P PCI SCSI controller
[07:48:41] <dclarke> I have tons of parts kicking around here
[07:48:50] <dclarke> found another SCSI controller ... looks real old
[07:49:02] <dclarke> AHA-2920C
[07:49:35] <delewis> heh, I've got a few of those laying around myself. Adaptec 2940, LSI MegaRAID, a RAID controller that came out of my old RS/6000 7025-F40, 2920C.
[07:50:44] <dclarke> damn .. that RAM is "right here" somewhere
[07:51:00] <dclarke> pile of 256MB DIMMs
[07:51:08] <dclarke> eight of them or so
[07:51:41] <dclarke> the only damn thing was that they go in an Ultra 80 or E420R and nothing else .. and I had neither
[07:52:03] <delewis> dclarke: exactly what I'm looking for
[07:52:08] <dclarke> I'll find them .. what are they worth really ? $200 ?
[07:52:17] <delewis> dclarke: not that much, really.
[07:52:25] <delewis> a similar kit for an SB1000/E280R runs about $50.
[07:52:26] <dclarke> didn't think so either
[07:52:35] <dclarke> oh well ...
[07:52:39] <dclarke> I'll find them
[07:53:24] <dclarke> found a box of .5 mm leds for my pencil ..
[07:53:26] <dclarke> thats nice
[07:54:05] <dclarke> great .. a SoundBlaster 16 .. part #CT1740
[07:54:16] <dclarke> a bloody museum piece
[07:54:28] <delewis> hehe
[07:54:40] <delewis> I've got a Sound Blater 16 AWE 64 Gold laying in a drawer here :-)
[07:54:44] <delewis> gold connectors
[07:54:53] <dclarke> Adaptec AHA-1540CP .. also an ISA card
[07:55:00] <delewis> CT4540
[07:56:00] <dclarke> CT4540 .. SB-Live  ??
[07:56:11] <delewis> nope Sound Blaster 16 AWE 64 Gold
[07:56:41] <delewis> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_AWE64
[07:56:42] <dclarke> 501-2922 .. whats that ?
[07:57:09] <dclarke> TGX+ graphics I think
[07:57:10] <delewis> looks like a TGX
[07:57:25] <delewis> http://www.memoryxsun.com/5012325.html
[07:57:40] <ShadowHntr> SB16 != SB AWE64
[07:57:58] <dclarke> TGX .. useless
[07:58:27] <dclarke> 501-4366  quad ethernet
[07:58:28] <delewis> ShadowHntr: ah, you're right.
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[07:58:32] <ShadowHntr> Sound Blaster AWE64
[07:58:33] <ShadowHntr> :)
[07:58:34] <delewis> I was seeing things when I was reading off the model.
[07:58:49] <delewis> dclarke: nice, I'm waiting for my QFE to arrive any day now
[07:58:54] <ShadowHntr> yikes
[07:58:55] <ShadowHntr> quad port
[07:59:02] <delewis> so I can take down the old Packard Bell that's been my router and replace it with my Ultra 2.
[07:59:03] <ShadowHntr> dumb question
[07:59:12] <dclarke> I really need to pick through my desk drawers more often
[07:59:13] <ShadowHntr> multi-port nics can be multihomed?
[07:59:18] <delewis> ShadowHntr:
[07:59:19] <delewis> yes
[07:59:23] <ShadowHntr> cool
[07:59:23] <delewis> you can use the Sun Trunking software
[07:59:28] <delewis> or just use them as separate interfaces
[07:59:29] <ShadowHntr> or routing
[07:59:30] <ShadowHntr> etc?
[07:59:38] <delewis> ShadowHntr: sure
[08:00:07] <ShadowHntr> cool
[08:00:08] <dclarke> I just found .. not one but two MATROX MGA graphics cards
[08:00:14] <ShadowHntr> never used multi-port nics before
[08:00:19] <ShadowHntr> i got a dualport compaq nic in my desk
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[08:00:39] <dclarke> heck .. my Sparc 20 has qe here
[08:00:54] <ShadowHntr> hey
[08:01:00] <ShadowHntr> does the e420r have LOM ?
[08:01:09] <dclarke> um .. hold on a sec .. wtf is this ... 501-5406
[08:01:44] <delewis> I've got a Matrox Millenium II here with Fcode to throw in a pSeries and a Matrox G450 AGP for a peecee.
[08:01:45] <dclarke> quad ethernet .. but not the same as the other one
[08:01:58] <delewis> dclarke: minor revision differences, I think.
[08:02:00] <dclarke> those are great graphics options
[08:02:43] <dclarke> found a .. what do we have here ..
[08:02:51] <dclarke> Compaq S3 graphics
[08:02:56] <dclarke> whatever ..
[08:04:05] <dclarke> okay .. I finally hit the level that has everything wrapped in bubblewrap still
[08:04:34] <delewis> hmm, I wonder if I could throw that Millenium II in my Blade 1000
[08:04:49] <delewis> it's got Fcode on it which is platform-independent, so in theory, even OpenBoot should be able to use it.
[08:05:08] <dclarke> 501-4790
[08:05:34] <delewis> dclarke: SBus?
[08:05:45] <dclarke> yep
[08:05:53] <delewis> er, UPA, I mean, but yeah.
[08:05:54] <delewis> sweet.
[08:05:59] <delewis> I've been looking for one of those
[08:06:08] <dclarke> got it here
[08:06:17] <delewis> you want to part with it?
[08:06:20] <dclarke> wrapped in bubble wrap and anti-static
[08:06:32] <dclarke> sure .. I didn't even know I had it
[08:06:41] <dclarke> its in my desk drawer
[08:06:50] <delewis> awesome :-)
[08:06:55] * dclarke my desk drawers are better than anysystem.com inventory
[08:07:02] <delewis> right now, I've just got a CG6 in my Ultra 2, and that's not really cutting it.
[08:07:13] <delewis> 8-bit colour and all.
[08:07:16] <dclarke> 501-2741  SunSwift looks like
[08:08:42] <dclarke> ooh .. just hit the big money card here
[08:08:52] <dclarke> the X2222A
[08:09:04] <dclarke> dual SCSI + dual ethernet
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[08:11:24] <dclarke> well .. I hit bottom .. so
[08:11:31] <dclarke> the RAM is here .. somewhere
[08:11:44] <dclarke> you want the Creator III framebuffer eh ?
[08:12:13] <delewis> absolutely. I've been looking for one to throw in my Ultra 2, but they're pretty rare on eBay, nowadays.
[08:12:35] <dclarke> one sec .. baby woke up here
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[08:31:06] <dclarke> geez
[08:31:14] <dclarke> delewis :  drop me an email
[08:31:24] <dclarke> delewis :  I need a shipping addr etc
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[08:33:23] <delewis> dclarke: done.
[08:33:46] <dclarke> I don't have a use for the framebuffer .. but you do
[08:33:55] <dclarke> I'll find the RAM
[08:34:01] <delewis> yeah, I'll put it to good use.
[08:34:04] <delewis> no problem.
[08:35:45] <dclarke> got it .. okay
[08:36:05] <dclarke> I'll get around to that
[08:36:24] <dclarke> geez .. I'm way behind on getting a t-shirt out to a few guys also
[08:37:53] <SunTzuTech> is there a time when you are not behind, dennis?
[08:38:16] <dclarke> rarely anymore
[08:38:30] <dclarke> there is just too much to do .. not enough of me
[08:39:00] <SunTzuTech> amen brother
[08:39:10] <dclarke> how goes ?
[08:39:40] <dclarke> in my vast amount of spare time I was looking at writing a black jack simulation .. then I got back to work
[08:39:59] <dclarke> right now I need to get GNOME moving forwards
[08:40:21] <SunTzuTech> ssdd.  have been harassing martin to get his patches for qemu.  Juergen came through again on the dma cdrom, but i just ran into a situ with the rtls adapter in qemu running solaris nvxb39
[08:41:12] <SunTzuTech> actually, got the patches, but he's got a bunch of stuff that needs to get to CVS.
[08:41:48] <SunTzuTech> though why he wants to build qemu for sun4c and sun4d is beyond me
[08:43:28] <delewis> qemu on sun4d and sun4c? ouch.
[08:43:36] <dclarke> yeah
[08:43:47] <dclarke> like .. gee .. who cares
[08:43:49] <delewis> it's also enough on sun4u.
[08:43:54] <delewis> s/also/slow/
[08:44:03] <dclarke> sun4m are still out there .. from time to time
[08:44:26] <dclarke> I can see a good reason for sun4u .. but not much else Sparc based
[08:44:30] <dclarke> sun4v of course
[08:45:10] <dclarke> sorry guys .. I need to do a bit of work and get some sleep here
[08:45:25] <delewis> night, dclarke, and thanks again for the hardware.
[08:45:34] <SunTzuTech> I can still run win98 on my 450Mhz U60 in qemu and it's not unusable (but close)
[08:45:34] <dclarke> thank me .. when you get it
[08:45:41] <delewis> dclarke: hah, alright :-)
[08:45:56] <dclarke> qemu just blows up on Sparc here
[08:46:07] <dclarke> anyways .. gotta run
[08:46:25] <SunTzuTech> later dennis
[08:46:30] <dclarke> ta ..
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[09:02:02] <nrubsig> night
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[10:08:06] <lloy0706> It seems, finally, that I've discovered I'm not the only one who can get Eclipse on sxcr x86 version to cause the Hotspot JVM to crash out underneath it.
[10:08:36] <bougie>     hello
[10:08:46] <lloy0706> Howdy bougie
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[10:20:48] <LeftWing> I still can't believe they don't have a Solaris x86 version available for download from Eclipse.org.
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[10:22:16] <Error_404> LeftWing: i *know*
[10:22:39] <LeftWing> It's just ridiculous.
[10:24:47] <Error_404> eclipse is put together by IBM, no?
[10:25:09] <LeftWing> I thought it was put together by the Eclipse Foundation or something.
[10:25:16] <LeftWing> In conjuction with IBM.
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[10:28:31] <Error_e^ipi-1> sorry
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[10:43:59] <Fish> hello
[10:44:04] <Error_e^ipi> ahoy
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[11:04:06] <Tsuroerusu> Hey folks, I am a curious GNU/Linux user interested in Solaris/OpenSolaris, and I have some questions that I just can't seem to find a solid answer for on opensolaris.org, especially with regards to licensing of different Solaris components.
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[11:04:25] <jteo> just ask.
[11:04:33] <Tsuroerusu> jteo: Thanks, I will :)
[11:05:42] <Tsuroerusu> One of the things I can't seem to find an answer for is if I downloaded Solaris 10, what are open source (free software, as Richard Stallman would say) and what are not? I personally try to use as little proprietary software as possible, for various reasons, and I really like to know what freedoms I have with the system I use.
[11:06:11] <Tsuroerusu> I have seen this: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/about/roadmap/conslist/ but never having tried Solaris it's really not making that much sense to me
[11:06:43] <jteo> certain drivers and utilities are not open sourced.
[11:06:52] <jteo> lemme dig around for the list
[11:06:55] <LeftWing> But that's no reason not to use them.
[11:06:59] <Error_e^ipi> if you're particularly concerned with it, there's always Nexenta
[11:08:04] <jteo> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/about/no_source/
[11:08:17] <Tsuroerusu> LeftWing: Well, I'm a bit of a free software kind of person, not quite to the "extreme" if you wanna call it that as Richard Stallman, but considering the fact, which I am proud of, that I only have three pieces of non-open source/non-free software on my computer, I like to know what I am using if I decided to give Solaris a shot.
[11:08:56] <LeftWing> Non-open source and non-free are two wildly different categories.
[11:09:21] <Tsuroerusu> LeftWing: When I say free I mean like "non-libre", not gratis.
[11:09:28] <Tsuroerusu> non-free*
[11:09:44] * LeftWing puts his head in his hands.
[11:10:09] <Tsuroerusu> LeftWing: Well hopefully there's room for everybody in this world, 'ey? :)
[11:10:16] <LeftWing> Apparently there is.
[11:11:09] * LeftWing returns to owning property.
[11:11:16] <Tsuroerusu> Right now I use OpenBSD and Linux, both of which (In the case of the Linux distro I use) contain no non-open source software per default.
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[11:11:34] <Error_e^ipi> Tsuroerusu: again, check out nexenta
[11:11:48] <Tsuroerusu> That's like Ubuntu with the Solaris kernel, right?
[11:11:54] <Error_e^ipi> yes
[11:12:09] <Tsuroerusu> OK, this should be an interesting Sunday! :)
[11:12:19] <Tsuroerusu> Thanks a lot guys, I appreciate your time
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[11:45:02] <delewis> oh, darn. I was waiting to say that Solaris has plenty of closed consolidations that would ruin his fantasy.
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[11:58:48] <dinolinux> hi, this is probably a stupid question, but is it possible to install opensolaris over solaris 10 without downloading and burning cds?
[11:59:38] <jteo> BFU.
[11:59:40] <delewis> dinolinux: no, and you can't BFU on Solaris 10, anyway.
[11:59:57] <delewis> if you had Solaris Express, it wouldn't be a problem.
[12:00:43] <jteo> (my bad)
[12:01:42] <dinolinux> oh, i really don't want to download 6 cds :|
[12:01:57] <delewis> dinolinux: sorry, there's not really much else you can do.
[12:02:26] <dojtoll> jteo: There is also a DVD
[12:03:35] <dojtoll> sorry wrong nick. =D
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[12:07:08] <kimc> helloo.
[12:08:00] <kimc> how can i make the serial port the conosle on sxcr x86 ?
[12:08:07] <kimc> er console
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[12:08:51] <kimc> does x86 know eeprom commands ?
[12:09:15] <DerJoern> no
[12:10:45] <kimc> i've looked on google quite a bit and there isn't much info on a serial console
[12:11:27] <dinolinux> can i do a bfu on build 28?
[12:11:32] <dinolinux> or is it too old?
[12:12:16] <Gr|ffous> from memory, that's too lod
[12:12:19] <Gr|ffous> *old
[12:13:29] <dinolinux> what's the oldest i can use?
[12:14:01] <Gr|ffous> 46 from the looks of things
[12:14:10] <Gr|ffous> seehttp://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/current/README.opensolaris & http://www.opensolaris.org/os/downloads/on/
[12:14:33] <DerJoern> kimc: probably this could help -> http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5065656&tstart=0
[12:16:02] <lasseoe> kimc: http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/document.do?assetkey=1-9-79477-1
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[12:22:49] <kimc> back now..
[12:23:59] <kimc> DerJoern: my machine hung, could you repeat the url with the serial console discussion ?
[12:25:11] <DerJoern> kimc: probably this could help -> http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5065656&tstart=0
[12:30:11] <kimc> ok the serial console is maybe already active.. i should connect a terminal and try it
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[12:35:33] <thomsog> Morning Guys, or good evening, I'm brand spanking new to opensolaris and have got to the stage of building ON from source
[12:35:58] <jteo> i can feel your excitement.
[12:35:59] <jteo> ;)
[12:36:12] <thomsog> it asks me to unzip opensolaris-src-DATE.tar.bz2 but i presume thats changed
[12:36:15] <thomsog> :-)
[12:36:32] <thomsog> am I correct to use mercury gate to get the source?
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[12:37:36] <jteo> either will do.
[12:38:03] <netstar> which distribution are you mostly using?
[12:38:16] <thomsog> thanks very much, could you give me a pointer on where to get the bzip'd src file?
[12:38:25] <thomsog> the express community b53
[12:38:35] <Gr|ffous> 55 is here: http://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/b55/
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[12:38:47] <Gr|ffous> line 4
[12:38:54] <thomsog> ah right, cheers :-) back to square one
[12:39:52] <Gr|ffous> netstar, well I use solaris express, I'm not sure what the average user uses. I'd guess mostly SE, with the ful opensolaris for the developers
[12:41:06] <thomsog> ah cool, the source is there too, thanks very much fella's
[12:41:17] <Gr|ffous> sure, have fun :)
[12:41:24] <thomsog> :-)
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[12:41:42] * Gr|ffous fulls into bed
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[12:46:29] <_william_> hi all
[12:48:09] <Doc> hmm.. so the rumor about them replacing build 55 with windows vista wasnt true?
[12:48:53] <lasseoe> no, it's moved to build 56
[12:51:20] <Doc> blah.. i started that rumor, and nobody bothered telling me it had changed..  :(
[12:52:27] <jteo> the iPhone runs nevada.
[12:52:29] <jteo> ?
[12:52:30] <jteo> ;)
[12:52:41] <Doc> the cisco one or the apple one?
[12:53:54] <jteo> obviously the snazzier Apple one
[12:56:14] <sickness> heh
[12:56:17] <sickness> I'd buy it :P
[12:56:47] <sickness> but I think it runs instead some crappy osx embedded thing...
[12:57:53] <BadKarma> haha
[12:58:12] <sickness> heh :)
[12:58:27] <BadKarma> don't say that when I am near...I am about to get myself a macbook pro
[13:00:46] <BadKarma> yay its 12:00
[13:01:37] <BadKarma> time for a small animal sacrifice at the CONSOLE
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[13:29:11] <sickness> BadKarma: what's the problem with a macbook pro? you could dualboot windows xp for games and opensolaris for serious work :P
[13:29:18] <sickness> ghghgh
[13:30:20] <BadKarma> lmao
[13:30:30] <BadKarma> you evil!
[13:35:12] <dojtoll> Is it possible to run OpenSolaris at a macbook?
[13:37:02] <Kmays> Intel-based MacPro ... yes
[13:37:54] <dojtoll> Only the pro?
[13:38:14] <Kmays> http://blogs.sun.com/setje/entry/solaris_on_the_imac
[13:38:23] <kAv_> ha
[13:38:26] <kAv_> you were faster
[13:39:47] <dojtoll> Not cool
[13:39:49] <dojtoll> tnx
[13:39:50] <dojtoll> =)
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[13:56:01] <scode> Is there anything for Solaris to enable labeling of disks - similar to freebsd's glabel, or various other volumen management solutions out there?
[13:56:31] <scode> End goal is to be able to logically name a disk and physically mark the disk, so there is never any confusion regardless of switching controllers/discovery order, etc.
[13:57:30] <Kmays> If you have StarOffice 8 (b54-b55) check this out: http://www.ngssoftware.com/advisories/high-risk-vulnerabilities-in-the-staroffice-suite/
[13:59:31] <BadKarma> thks, Kmays
[14:02:12] <Doc> scode: SVM, VxVM and ZFS already do that
[14:02:23] <lasseoe> w
[14:03:10] <scode> Doc: ZFS? I've been looking a lot aat ZFS and I have not seen that.
[14:03:21] <scode> do	I realize ZFS doe4snt care about the3 device name, but I want this in particular *FOR* ZFS. That is, safely doing things like replacing a drive without having to give any thoguht to which is which.
[14:03:37] <scode> Doc: I would like to have a zpool with named disks in it.
[14:03:49] <scode> Sorry about the typos.
[14:03:52] <Doc> how does this help?
[14:04:13] <scode> A lot. How else do you associate the disk device with the pysical disk?
[14:04:28] <scode> Yes you can kinda figure it out with sufficient effort, but it's error prone.
[14:04:43] <jamesd> disks have serial numbers on them and they are tracked that way.
[14:04:49] <scode> Especially on a home machine where you m ight be switching controllers/motherboard that cause device ordering differences etc.
[14:04:50] <Doc> in most systems, you just use cfgadm to unconfigure the disk, and then remove the disk whose light is off
[14:05:13] <Doc> otherwise you use iostat to find out the disks serial number, which is written on the disk in almost every case
[14:05:17] <scode> jamesd: Hmm, true. I suppose that's practical too.
[14:05:36] <scode> Doc: Light is off only works with serious hardware though.
[14:05:45] <Doc> (which is how we do it all the time - whenever we send an engineer out to replace a disk we give them the serial number as well as location/etc)
[14:05:54] <Doc> scode: no, it works with most all hardware
[14:05:57] <jamesd> scode, solaris allready figured this all out they have deployments that use over 1000 disks in a single system, you really think they didn't figure this all out?
[14:06:13] <scode> Doc: Usually there is no lifht to get switched off, with a cheap home SATA system without hotswap bays etc.
[14:06:26] <Doc> well whichever one is spun down
[14:06:30] <scode> jamesd: Not necessarily for the typical home use situation.
[14:06:40] <scode> Doc: Now we are moving into dangerous territory.
[14:06:48] <Doc> how does naming help?
[14:06:53] <scode> I'll look into using serials
[14:07:00] <Doc> how are you going to name them?
[14:07:12] <scode> Doc: It's perfect. You can make a logical association between physical label and logical disk that is 100% guaranteed to be correct and persistent.
[14:07:18] <scode> Completely independently of the hardware involved.
[14:07:26] <Doc> even if you move the disk to another slot?
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[14:07:33] <scode> Doc: tghat's the point
[14:07:36] <scode> An on-disk label.
[14:07:40] <jamesd> scode, you can make solaris flash the drive led on the bad drive ( yes its a hack)  then you can mark the drive, power down the box, replace marked drive.
[14:07:42] <Doc> ok, so you've just described the disks serial number
[14:07:59] <scode> The disks label is defined by the data on the disk.
[14:08:19] <Doc> if it's on-disk, what happens when the disk fails?
[14:08:26] <scode> Doc: Except if you have certain situations perhaps you can't get AT the serial number from the OS, or it's not physically accessible.
[14:08:27] <Doc> but yes, you can name a disk in solaris
[14:08:39] <scode> jamesd: My SATA drives don't have a drive led.
[14:08:45] <Doc> format -> volname
[14:09:06] <scode> Doc: Is that guaranteed to work in ANY case? Let's say a SCSI disk behind some IDE converter behind some USB converter...
[14:09:07] <jamesd> scode, yes most do, maybe they are not visible from the outside, but most have a little led on the controller board.
[14:09:11] <Doc> but it's a bad way to do it.. like i said, if the disk dies, depending on how it dies, odds are you wont be able to read the label
[14:09:29] <Doc> scode: yes. it writes it to the vtoc
[14:09:36] <Doc> although i've never tried it with EFI
[14:09:40] <scode> jamesd: Ok. But then you have the problem that you can't see it, and you need to muck about quite a bit.
[14:09:53] <scode> Doc: I dont need to write the label if it dies, because zfs/whatever will know which drive is missing, by name
[14:09:58] <scode> Anyways.
[14:10:03] <scode> I will go for the serial variant.
[14:10:04] <jamesd> scode, take the side cover off in dark room you should be able to see the flashing led.
[14:10:17] <scode> Making sure I know which one's which without having to break out the disk and look at the label.
[14:10:46] <scode> jamesd: That's ok for a last-resort, but not the first method I would choose if I want to effortlessly replace a disk.
[14:11:07] <jamesd> and for typical home systems you will only have 1 or 2 disks anyway...
[14:11:13] <scode> With labeling/serials I can establish what's what *once* and that will remain correct forever.
[14:11:34] <scode> jamesd: Well, s/home/nerdy home or small organization/business/
[14:12:22] <Doc> or just buy hardware that has at least some basic RAS functionality
[14:12:28] <scode> (Actually, if a disk dies completely the serial is still a bit more annoying, because then I would have to manually keep track of serial numbers in the machine and use a process of elimination to identify a  broken disk - if its COMPLETELY dead)
[14:12:33] <Doc> which obviously whatever you've bought doesnt
[14:12:44] <scode> Doc: But suddenly it costs $5000 instead of $500 (or even more).
[14:12:51] <Doc> only if you reboot - solaris keeps the serial number after the disk dies
[14:12:54] <scode> Anyways.
[14:12:55] <jamesd> at least on external disk boxes once you get 4 disks in a box they tend to have leds that are visible...
[14:12:59] <scode> I didn't mean to start such an argument :)
[14:13:04] <scode> Though I find it an interesting discussion.
[14:13:10] <Doc> and even then, running explorer on a regular basis will give you the serial post-failure
[14:13:54] <scode> jamesd: These are SATA drives in 3->4 5.25->3.25 converters, inside a cube-shaped case. No external storage box, mostly because I haven't found good-quality such boxes that are not very expensive.
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[14:14:14] <scode> Doc: Explorer?
[14:15:35] <BadKarma> "Macs use an ultra-modern industry standard technology called EFI to handle booting. Sadly, Windows XP, and even the upcoming Vista, are stuck in the 1980s with old-fashioned BIOS. But with Boot Camp, the Mac can operate smoothly in both centuries."
[14:15:44] <BadKarma> haha stuck in 1980s
[14:16:11] <jamesd> scode, and how exactly does  windows or linux cope with these problems? they make it worse because potentially a bad/dead disk changes the device numbering for all disks that fall later in the group...   /dev/sd[a-z] isn't exactly friendly.
[14:16:36] <scode> jamesd: Which is completely irrelevant with labeling.
[14:16:41] <scode> I always use glabel on FreeBSD for this.
[14:17:20] <scode> But certainly I agree that dynamic allocation of device names can cause trouble.
[14:17:22] <jamesd> scode, and if the drive is dead  you can see its glabel?
[14:17:32] <scode> But only because you don't have a guaranteed-to-be-persistent label.
[14:17:48] <scode> jamesd: I don't need to, because if the drive is dayd the raid array (or whatever) will say "drive XXX is offline".
[14:17:55] <scode> s/sayd/daid - i dunno how that happened.
[14:18:19] <scode> (where XXX is my hand-picked label name for the device, not a dynamically allocated name)
[14:18:57] <scode> And if I do "glabel status" I will see *ALL* online labeled disks, and can easily conclude which is dead if the drive was just a drive - not part of an array.
[14:19:12] <scode> Without ever having to keep track of anything beyond doing the initial labelling of the device that never changes.
[14:19:19] <jamesd> i have a feeling it wont be long till solaris supports that given the current situation with  fcal drive numbers....
[14:20:00] <scode> I haven't had the chance to use fibre channel so I wouldn't know, though I can imagine. :)
[14:20:34] <Auralis> solaris devices are not randomly created, they are the result of their physical device location, just stick a sticker on the drive with the device name where you can see it if your hardwar doesn't associate the disk slot with a device from its construction
[14:21:13] <jamesd> its worse than you can imagine...   of course the current theme in hardware is not replacing defective drives,  you design the system with enough redundancy  ( parity drives and  hotspares) then the system never needs to be serviced in its 5year life cycle.
[14:22:46] <Stric> unless you get a bad batch of drives.. which of course never happens ;)
[14:23:04] <scode> Auralis: Then you switch controller.
[14:23:16] <scode> Auralis: Or motherboard with a different PCI slot layout.
[14:23:27] <scode> Auralis: Or entirely switch interface. Or the driver is updated.
[14:23:48] <jamesd> Stric, right but that should be a really rare occurance, and normally you don't touch the box and save the cost of the $50/hr jr sysadmin running around to boxes and changing disks
[14:24:23] <scode> Heh. That's one way of looking at it.
[14:24:55] <Auralis> scode: when i do that much system reworking, the disk won't stay the same either
[14:25:39] <scode> It is by no means far fetched that I would move arrays between machines; absolutely not far fetched at all. Not at home, and not even at work with semi-serious storage servers.
[14:26:09] <scode> (e.g., weird hardware issues -> you want to move it to some standard set of hardware to get the data online)
[14:26:11] <Doc> serial numbers
[14:26:28] <scode> Doc: Yeah, like I said Im gonna go for serial numbers.
[14:26:34] <scode> Which is almost as good as a label.
[14:28:43] <Doc> no, it's better
[14:28:44] <Doc> anyway, bed
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[15:30:08] <Kmays> You can get the Acer Aspire 9810 for testing with the MacBook Pro.. make sure you use "psrinfo -vp" as well and StarOffice 8u5 ;P
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[15:52:41] <trygvis> I wonder why my X performance is so incredibly crappy
[15:52:51] <trygvis> it feels like I'm using a VESA driver or something
[16:02:02] <sickness> no acceleration?
[16:03:39] <trygvis> that's what it feels like, but from what I can tell from /var/log/Xorg.0.log it is using the radeon driver and all seems happy clappy
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[16:26:59] <_william_> well i also have crappy performance
[16:27:13] <_william_> but i don't wonder why... i am using expert 3D cards :(
[16:27:52] <trygvis> what's annoying is that the performance is way better under linux which I used to run
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[16:36:40] <sickness> trygvis: what's even more annoying, is that if you try under windows xp, performance is surely better than linux too ;P
[16:37:14] <jteo> do we have DRI for radeon under solaris already?
[16:37:24] <sickness> nope
[16:37:35] <sickness> last I heard is that it's all ready, but hold back by ati lawyers...
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[16:38:33] <trygvis> sickness: most likely, but it was acceptable by far
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[16:39:06] <trygvis> I could 1) play enemy territory with full screen and decent graphics, 2) write stuff in my IDE without lagging
[16:39:38] <trygvis> jteo: I have a radeon X600 card in this laptop so I guess that's why
[16:43:32] <jteo> trygvis: mmm.
[16:43:43] <Stric> trygvis: I'm downloading new maps for my fav ET server right now so I can go on playing et in 1680x1050 with a bit of aa/ani ;)
[16:44:55] <trygvis> I have a shiny 24" which I'd like to play on!
[16:45:03] <Stric> 22" :(
[16:45:10] <sickness> eheh :'
[16:46:08] <trygvis> I think I have to find an old drive I can put debian on so I can play
[16:49:02] <Kmays> http://www.tools.de/opensource/solaris/ati/
[16:49:31] <Kmays> See also: ati 6.6.3 driver
[16:50:44] <trygvis> that stuff is over 5 years old
[16:53:12] <Kmays> True... yet you could see if the driver could get updated (6.5.8 IN Sol10) to 6.6.3.
[16:54:37] <Kmays> (or get your hands on the DRI version for testing)
[16:54:41] <trygvis> I doubt a new driver will help that much if the DRI layer is missing
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[16:54:57] <trygvis> hm, is there a DRI version?
[16:55:52] <Kmays> I was told there was one in developing since last year... I know heard there might be some delays so won't see it in b56 as well...
[16:55:58] <trygvis> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/pages/2006102901/
[16:57:03] <Kmays> yes..that was one of the articles... (yet this was discussed for 1-2 years though) ;)
[16:57:15] <trygvis> hm, so according to that putback I should have DRI support in the kernel
[16:58:00] <trygvis> hm, 6418052 is still in progress
[16:58:24] <trygvis> 6462353 which is the kernel part is in 50
[16:58:39] <trygvis> I guess this is what alanc was talking about here the other day
[16:58:48] <Kmays> Technically, yes... but each driver has to be written for it... kinda like OpenGL ICD / Sun OpenGL
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[16:59:57] <trygvis> but most drivers should already support it already?
[17:00:46] <Kmays> I've heard it is being updated since it was based on old code.
[17:01:19] <Kmays> Alan is the expert on those matters
[17:02:05] <trygvis> right, but as long it's an x.org issue it should be fixed pretty soon
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[17:04:24] <Kmays> Well... last I heard they were working on compiling a Xorg 7.2RC3 snapshot...mightbe fixed by now.
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[17:04:55] <trygvis> so now the next problem will be to build ET :)
[17:05:10] <Kmays> :D
[17:06:09] <Kmays> Xorg/XSun maintenance requires a lot of work (testing-wise)
[17:06:31] <trygvis> I can test ET if they build it for me ;)
[17:07:33] <Kmays> If you got that new 24" then that would be fun.
[17:08:08] <trygvis> I have it already!
[17:10:24] <elektronkind> does anyone see src.opensolaris.org as being down?
[17:10:43] <trygvis> yep
[17:10:55] <trygvis> err, I don't see it so I assume it's down ;)
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[17:15:47] <estibi> hi
[17:19:32] <Kmays> b_fixedphysics
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[17:27:50] <Kmays> trygis <- Do talk tothe XiG people though to see if they support the X600 with their drivers. See: http://www.xig.com/Pages/Summit/CardsChips/List-byMFGR/ATI-INDEX.html
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[17:28:44] <trygvis> doesn't seem like it :(
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[17:52:20] <benignbala> hello all.. I am new to soalris.Can someone guide me on how to mount my linux partitions in opensolaris
[17:53:57] <tomww> benignbala: which filesystem (ext2, ext3, reiserfs are not in opensolaris.)? If you want a shared fat32-filesystem, this can be mounted
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[17:56:03] <benignbala> mine is ext3....
[17:56:37] <benignbala> I need another help too....
[17:57:10] <benignbala> I am used to emacs and have never used vi or vim.... can i use the same source file that I use in GNU/Linux here?
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[18:02:37] <benignbala> I am used to emacs and have never used vi or vim.... can i use
[18:02:38] <benignbala> 	     the same source file that I use in GNU/Linux here?
[18:02:51] <terver> if you get lucky to compile it ;)
[18:03:10] <benignbala> terver: i don get you....
[18:03:55] <terver> by 'source file' you mean sources? or you just want to copy executable files from linux to solaris?
[18:04:24] <terver> i don't think last is possible
[18:04:25] <benignbala> i mean the sources.. not the executables.....
[18:04:40] <jteo> you mean ~/.emacs?
[18:05:12] <terver> i think he ask if he would be able to compile it
[18:05:33] <benignbala> jteo: no.... What I asked was this... for installing emacs in opensolaris.. can I make use of the tar ball that i downloaded for my GNU/Linux....
[18:05:50] <jteo> benignbala: yes.
[18:05:51] <terver> yes, you can
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[18:06:11] <benignbala> jteo: terver : I have doubts because I dont have gcc in opensolaris.... will it still work?
[18:06:26] <jteo> benignbala: /usr/sfw/bin/gcc
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[18:06:28] <terver> it won't if you have no gcc..
[18:06:47] <jteo> Reading specs from /usr/sfw/lib/gcc/i386-pc-solaris2.11/3.4.3/specs
[18:06:47] <jteo> Configured with: /builds1/sfwnv-gate/usr/src/cmd/gcc/gcc-3.4.3/configure --prefix=/usr/sfw --with-as=/usr/sfw/bin/gas --with-gnu-as --with-ld=/usr/ccs/bin/ld --without-gnu-ld --enable-languages=c,c++,f77 --enable-shared
[18:06:55] <jteo> (apologies for flood)
[18:07:10] <benignbala> jteo: thanks a lot....i will try it....
[18:07:36] <terver> btw, is there any advantage with using gas instead of ccs/bin/as?
[18:08:05] <benignbala> terver: i still prefer as...
[18:08:18] <benignbala> terver: but since jteo recomends gas i will go for it...
[18:08:19] <tomww> benignbala: you could use the ready build packages from the "comanion cd", this will give you /opt/sfw/bin/xemacs if i'm right
[18:08:41] <benignbala> tomww: I don have the companion CD....
[18:08:57] <benignbala> tomww: I got the dvd from my friend....
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[18:10:02] <benignbala> can anybody tell where will the companinon CD be available? or should it be bought for money from the SUN?
[18:10:09] <jteo> benignbala: gcc is already in /usr/sfw/bin
[18:10:39] <jteo> also, Studio 11 includes emacs i believe.
[18:11:04] <terver> yeap, in contrib dir
[18:11:19] <benignbala> jteo: Oh.... thanks.. i use opensolaris 10....by the way..... i ahve trouble connnecting to the internet using my solaris...
[18:11:31] <benignbala> terver: so i am now in GNU/Linux.....
[18:12:05] <benignbala> terver: jteo : ifconfig doesnt give out ant info...
[18:12:16] <jteo> what network card?
[18:12:23] <PerterB> Studio 11 contains Xemacs, but close enough
[18:12:41] <jteo> PerterB: he may explicit prefer GNU emacs. -shrug-
[18:12:45] <tomww> benignbala: you could download single packages or the whole companion cd for free (CD: smae location as Sun Solaris, packages from www.opensolaris.org if I remember correctly)
[18:12:48] <benignbala> I use a 100 mbps ethernet card.. shipset i am not sure...
[18:12:50] <jteo> *explicitly
[18:13:20] <jteo> what does ifconfig say in Linux?
[18:13:33] <benignbala> jteo: yes.... I prefer GNU/emacs.... actually i use it for everything.. even now i use emacs for this IRC....
[18:13:39] <PerterB> jteo: yeah, a lot of people do (I switched back myself a few years ago)
[18:14:06] <benignbala> jteo: In linux it says eth0 is up and gives the other details...
[18:14:15] <benignbala> PerterB: yes... :)
[18:14:24] <jteo> benignbala: lspci -v
[18:14:32] <jteo> look for the entry that describes your network card.
[18:14:52] <jteo> (i forgot that it's *always* named eth0 in Linux)
[18:14:54] <benignbala> jteo: But as I mentioned I use Linux now.... will try on it and report....
[18:15:08] <jteo> benignbala: lspci is available in Linux also.
[18:15:27] <benignbala> jteo: yes....
[18:15:43] <jteo> so run it in Linux *now*?
[18:16:18] <benignbala> jteo: it is from realtek and says as RT8139.. ?
[18:16:24] <onbot> commit by Anish Gupta:  6502201 Galaxy1F panics while running MAXQ with Northstar duel port card and also with Northstar QGE card
[18:17:16] <jteo> that should be supported.
[18:17:37] <benignbala> jteo: can u please tell how i configure it?
[18:17:55] <benignbala> jteo: in GNU/Linux, I do it by ifconfig eth0 up
[18:18:21] <jteo> pci id of your card?
[18:18:27] <jteo> lspci should have that info as well.
[18:19:23] <benignbala> is that RTL-8139/8139C.. or should am i giving the wrong stuff?
[18:19:44] <estibi> benignbala: this is rtls0
[18:19:45] <benignbala> *am i giving the wrong stuff
[18:20:14] <benignbala> estibi: ok... then should i take it as ifconfig rtls0 up ?
[18:21:06] <estibi> benignbala: ifconfig rtls0 plumb
[18:21:38] <benignbala> estibi: thanks... but can i know what does plumb mean... that is what is it used for?
[18:22:04] <estibi> and then you have to updated 2 files in /etc
[18:22:09] <estibi> /etc/hosts
[18:22:16] <estibi> and /etc/hostname.rtls0
[18:22:29] <benignbala> estibi: thanks... will do it....
[18:22:30] <jteo> benignbala: man ifconfig
[18:22:43] <estibi> and :
[18:22:44] <estibi> /etc/defaultrouter
[18:22:48] <benignbala> jteo: ok.. will do that too...
[18:22:51] <estibi> /etc/resolv.conf
[18:23:07] <benignbala> estibi: what should I do in editing these?
[18:23:21] <benignbala> I mean what all should I modify?
[18:23:23] <estibi> you can also use ifconfig
[18:23:24] <estibi> and route
[18:23:38] <jteo> benignbala: creating an empty /etc/hostname.rtls0 will make your NIC auto-plumb on boot
[18:23:49] <jteo> are you using DHCP to obtain an IP address?
[18:24:01] <benignbala> jteo: yes... dhcp..
[18:24:13] <jteo> benignbala: then also create an empty /etc/dhcp.rtls0
[18:24:32] <benignbala> jteo: ok... what id it is static? my friend uses static...
[18:24:40] <benignbala> *if it is
[18:25:43] <jteo> benignbala: /etc/hosts
[18:26:16] <benignbala> jteo: Oh... u mean I add the IP address as an entry there.. right?
[18:26:56] <jteo> benignbala: i think so. :)
[18:27:04] <jteo> (for static)
[18:27:12] <benignbala> jteo: thanks a lot.....
[18:27:37] <benignbala> jteo: and one more issue...I think it is a bug.. in my dvd or the soalris.. i don know for sure....
[18:28:01] <benignbala> jteo: when I used the lockscreen thing today... it wored.. but i couildn relogin....
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[18:28:40] <benignbala> jteo: the login dialog displays a text as system error over the password label....
[18:28:56] <jteo> benignbala: never came across that before.
[18:28:56] <benignbala> jteo: can u help regarding this.. please?
[18:30:11] <benignbala> jteo: then probably, it is in my copy... right?
[18:31:27] <jteo> benignbala: i'm not familiar with such a problem.
[18:31:40] <benignbala> jteo: thanks.. anywayz...
[18:32:01] <benignbala> I am new to opensolaris and the IRC is really bery helpful and prompt....
[18:32:05] <benignbala> thanks a lot....
[18:32:12] <benignbala> *very helpful
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[18:49:18] <Symmetria> hrm
[18:49:28] <Symmetria> heh solaris 10 v6 implementation has some serious breakage in it
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[19:22:26] <hspaans> someone knows if meta tracker is on Sun's schedule to be included in JDS?
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[19:37:22] <terver> how do i disable automaic gdm startup?
[19:37:33] <trygvis> svcs -a|grep gdm
[19:37:40] <trygvis> svcadm disable <id>
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[19:38:11] <terver> it's already disabled
[19:38:24] <terver> (probably because i'm in login prompt)
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[19:38:34] <terver> but if i'd exit - it will start up X
[19:38:42] <trygvis> then it's not disabled
[19:38:48] <Auralis> no, standard login manager is dtlogin
[19:39:09] <trygvis> oh, right, you're on solaris proper
[19:40:02] <terver> hm, basicly, i don't want X to be started if there is noone in console...
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[19:51:53] <terver> seem svcadm disable cde-login helps
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[20:30:40] <tek-ops> I'm curious which distro of opensolaris would be a better fit for me
[20:30:57] <tek-ops> between nexenta and belenix
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[20:31:47] <tek-ops> I come from a variety of linux distros, gentoo, suse, slackware, etc..
[20:32:03] <tek-ops> just curious which of the two would be better for a desktop/workstation setting
[20:32:39] <Auralis> nexenta is the closest yo a linux, debian based
[20:32:50] <Auralis> however the apps will run of all of them the same
[20:32:53] <tek-ops> i never really liked debian that much
[20:33:21] <tek-ops> im coming from more of a maintanance perspective
[20:33:22] <Auralis> the most complet is Solaris Express Community Release
[20:33:25] <tek-ops> and stability
[20:33:43] <Auralis> the most stable and with the most support is the stright forward Solaris 10
[20:34:10] <tek-ops> so solaris 10 over open solaris community release?
[20:34:23] <Auralis> depends on your priorities
[20:34:49] <Auralis> opensolaris have the newer toys and gimmicks and all the bleeding edge stuff
[20:34:50] <tek-ops> how so?
[20:35:03] <Auralis> solaris 10 is the customer release and the mos stable
[20:35:04] <tek-ops> i'm willing to go bleading edge for more hardware support
[20:35:21] <Auralis> then is the community release for you
[20:35:21] <tek-ops> i did use a few 2.5 kernels of linux in the 2.4 days
[20:35:41] <tek-ops> probably
[20:36:06] <Auralis> it allows you to grabe the opensolaris source and build your own thing if you want and play around will the newst projects as well
[20:36:39] <tek-ops> that sounds good
[20:36:53] <tek-ops> does the opensolaris kernel require custom builds to the extent that linux does?
[20:36:58] <Auralis> no
[20:37:07] <tek-ops> i'm like linux for custom applicaitons, i.e. firewall/router
[20:37:32] <tek-ops> but I liked solaris 9 for enterprise settings... which is why I'd like to start familiarizing myself with open solaris
[20:37:39] <Auralis> the kernel is fully modular, on the commercial solaris noone build a kernel in a decade outside sun
[20:38:02] <Auralis> theres simply no need for that
[20:38:03] <tek-ops> oh wow
[20:38:59] <tek-ops> hmmm
[20:40:00] <oxygene> tek-ops: also, kernel interfaces are quite stable - so a kernel module might just work against newer (and sometimes older) kernels
[20:40:24] <tek-ops> very cool
[20:40:41] <tek-ops> i remember hearing that before in trying to get open solaris to work on my compactpci sun board
[20:40:52] <Auralis> yeah, for example the solaris 2.6 zx gfx drivers work just fine in solaris 9
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[20:41:10] <tek-ops> that's really cool
[20:41:25] <trygvis> indeed
[20:42:03] <Auralis> hck with sol 8 sun garanteed that if your app stops working if you sticked to the public APIs its a bug in solaris and your app
[20:42:14] <Auralis> and not your app
[20:42:15] <Auralis> so
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[20:46:12] <Auralis> however the brawback of not using solaris 10 is that you don't get patches, you just get a new release every few weeks that you can use to upgrade. its basicaly alpha/beta software, but then there are folks who run that stuff in production
[20:46:53] <tek-ops> hmmm, how much work is involved in an "upgrade",
[20:47:04] <delewis> even so, Solaris Express is far more stable than what a lot of other people are trying to pawn off to the rest of the world.
[20:47:23] <delewis> tek-ops: pop the CD in, select "Upgrade"
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[20:47:33] <delewis> Live Upgrade is a bit more work, as you need to set aside a slice
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[20:47:57] <tek-ops> ahh... i'll stick with the CD :)
[20:48:02] <delewis> the nice thing about Live Upgrade, though, is that you've got your old setup to fall back to if the upgrade went bad or whatever.
[20:48:14] <delewis> and it minimizes downtime, because you can upgrade your system while it's online.
[20:48:19] <Auralis> an upgrade install basicaly removes the installed pkgs and installs the new ones in their place
[20:48:24] <tek-ops> via CD or live?
[20:48:38] <tek-ops> which continues system uptime?
[20:48:47] <delewis> tek-ops: Live Upgrade
[20:48:58] <Auralis> live upgrade installs a copy of your installtions onto another disk with your customisations and data inplace
[20:48:59] <tek-ops> hmm, that just may be worth it
[20:49:14] <delewis> you set aside a slice, Live Upgrade copies your existing operating system onto the other slice, and upgrades that slice, rather than upgrading the slice/instance you're currently using
[20:49:18] <tek-ops> well, how large of a slice is necessary for that?
[20:49:21] <delewis> so the only downtime is the time it takes to reboot into that new isntance.
[20:49:24] <Auralis> with live upgrade your downtime is the time for a reboot to switch the boot environments
[20:49:25] <delewis> tek-ops: same as your root slice
[20:49:35] <delewis> if your root slice is 10GB, you need at least a 10GB slice for Live Upgrade
[20:49:46] <tek-ops> oh
[20:49:51] <tek-ops> ouch
[20:50:11] <tek-ops> i suppose i could just break the mirror, do the update and rebuild the mirror.. ?
[20:50:47] <Auralis> or blast the mirror, do a liveupgrade, if all went well, recreate the mirror from the new install
[20:50:48] <delewis> you could do that
[20:51:11] <tek-ops> hmmm, a script is starting to formulate in my mind :)
[20:51:16] <rbrown> upgrades are evil
[20:51:46] <delewis> rbrown: Solaris makes them easy :-)
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[20:56:03] <tomww> live upgrade supports you in breaking mirrors and building new metadevices as 1-way mirror (clear old mirror-side if all okay and attach it to the new environment as 2nd mirror)
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[21:48:08] <estibi> which packages provides drivers for xorg on nevada ?
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[21:53:07] <tomww> estibi: SUNWxorg-graphics-ddx ?
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[21:54:58] <estibi> tomww: no
[21:55:01] <estibi> :/
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[21:55:50] <kAv_> i must admit i just noticed the zpool history command and i find it uber neat
[21:57:29] <zdzichuBG> wow, it even works under linux
[21:57:40] <estibi> /usr/X11/bin/Xorg -configure
[21:57:52] <estibi> List of video drivers: dummy
[21:57:53] <estibi> No devices to configure.  Configuration failed.
[21:58:01] <estibi> :/
[21:58:20] <Doc> it's not every day a PC calls you a dummy!
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[22:01:12] <tomww> estibi: what kind of problem doi you want to solve? the never Xorg should be totally self configuring, without a xorg.conf....
[22:01:35] <tomww> oh, s/doi/dO and s/never/newer/  :-)
[22:03:35] <estibi> i want to start X server :)
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[22:05:45] <estibi> i have installed core networking and some others packages
[22:05:51] <tomww> what build of nevada is installed and what graphics chip?
[22:06:14] <estibi> b54
[22:06:19] <estibi> ati radeon
[22:08:17] <tomww> do you have a chance ob running an upgrade-install and select SUNWCuser ? I think it's a bit difficult which packages are needed to be installed by hand for X11...
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[22:11:10] <estibi> err, i hate that installer and that dependencies ...
[22:11:25] <tomww> me too :-)
[22:11:38] <estibi> :)
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[22:43:46] <boyd_> Morning, all
[22:45:23] <Error_e^ipi> yo
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[23:44:40] <estibi> bye
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[23:57:44] <kAv_> nfssrv: WARNING: nfsauth: mountd not responding
[23:57:53] <kAv_> oups





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