[00:00:29] <hspaans> which version are you using?
[00:02:21] <sahafeez> hspaans: 2.3.2
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[00:05:42] <hspaans> they extended some banned file stuff after 20020300-release. sorry I didn't find they time and will to port some changes to  a newer amavisd
[00:06:18] <sahafeez> hspaans: you work on the project
[00:07:04] <hspaans> no, just a sysadmin who likes pain
[00:07:28] <sahafeez> hapaans: is there anyway to allow X then skip if it matches, then if it does not go to the other rules
[00:08:43] <hspaans> you could try playing with the regexp
[00:09:06] <sahafeez> i could dump amavis to..
[00:09:13] <hspaans> downloading 2.3.2
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[00:10:22] <sahafeez> the prg is great and sucks at the same time. it is a mess to setup and configure and the code is hard to follow. but it works great when it works
[00:12:50] <hspaans> what is the mime-header in the message?
[00:13:44] <hspaans> amavisd-new is really a pig, but yes it works when you're not too demanding about configuration :(
[00:14:56] * dlg hug mimedefang
[00:15:23] <hspaans> btw you can better trust on your virusscanner then on amavis doing this for you based on some wicked mime-regexp-engine
[00:17:46] <sahafeez> hum. interesting. i really have not wanted to mess with it to much as i have it working from an nice anti-spam how to. i have so much that i really do not want to learn the workings of another pile of confusing code ;)
[00:18:13] <hspaans> dlg: as long amavis can keep up with the spamtrap then I'm happy ;-)
[00:18:42] <sahafeez> hspaans: i have not seen the msg. just the bounce msg. the bounce say "multipart/mixed | application/octet-stream,.exe,.exe-ms"
[00:19:07] <hspaans> bounce?
[00:19:28] <sahafeez> hspaans: but this is because the *.stx file which is a primavera data file is getting tagged as an exe
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[00:22:47] <sahafeez> yes. bounce. i am set to bounce. the person that got the bounce forwarded the bounce msg to me to look at. i have since looked at email - had it sent to my gmail. checked. tried to pass a number of primavera files thru. all get tagged
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[00:24:09] <hspaans> you will get blacklisted for such bounces. but just turn the feature off, because it simply doesn't work as it should
[00:24:53] <hspaans> or trim the regexp in $banned_filename_re
[00:24:57] <sahafeez> hspaans:   [ qr'..prx$'i => 0 ],  # allow any file name ending in .prx or .PRX
[00:27:17] <sahafeez> hspanns: so you really think i should just let them all thru hum?
[00:29:14] <hspaans> sahafeez: its your mail, but you're going to lose mail in the long term with this option
[00:29:53] <sahafeez> why do you say that?
[00:31:40] <hspaans> because this feature is unwise, stupid and there are better options to detect virusstuff for example
[00:32:45] <sahafeez> hum, but i really do not want an file that is an windows exe sent - period. or a scr file.
[00:33:32] <hspaans> this is like using the mime-header option in postfix. its waiting for problems, because mailagents contain bugs/flaws
[00:33:56] <sahafeez> in this case it is uses the unix file cmd to id the attachment
[00:34:52] <sahafeez> i want all files scanned. if it is an exe i want it stopped.
[00:35:49] <hspaans> buy a virusscanner
[00:36:07] <sahafeez> i have one. clamav
[00:36:18] <sahafeez> and norton on the desktop
[00:36:43] <hspaans> tell amavis to use clamav and don't worry about this option
[00:36:48] <sahafeez> but if you look at the testing the av scans only get 70-80% of virus
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[00:37:16] <sahafeez> hum. so have clam see if it is a virus or just drop any exe?
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[00:37:46] <hspaans> amavis can put virus mail in quarantine
[00:37:51] <kjetilho> sahafeez: if you continue to bounce messages, I'll hate you forever
[00:37:52] <hspaans> also phishing mail
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[00:39:09] <sahafeez> well i really need the otherside to see the bounce. in this case we would have never know the client had sent the files and we did not get them until the client called and said " i got this msg when i tried to email you"
[00:39:24] <sahafeez> looking at the logs each day is not going to work.
[00:39:46] <hspaans> sahafeez: but clamav will stop most of todays virusmails. I haven't really seen one the last couply of years and I get a LOT of mail
[00:39:48] <kjetilho> sahafeez: no, you need to reject the message during the SMTP dialog
[00:40:06] * hspaans agrees btw with kjetilho
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[00:40:23] <sahafeez> $final_spam_destiny = D_REJECT;
[00:40:35] <hspaans> sahafeez: no D_PASS
[00:40:46] <sahafeez> why
[00:40:54] <kjetilho> sahafeez: that way the _real_ server sending it will get a bounce message.  not some random schmuck who had his address forged by the virus
[00:41:20] <sahafeez> kjetilho with D_PASS?
[00:41:42] <kjetilho> I have no idea how your software works.  I use Exim and Sophie
[00:41:43] <hspaans> sahafeez: amavis is a dual MTA solution so it means the message is already accepted by your MTA. amavis rejects the message then you MTA has to bounce it
[00:42:33] <hspaans> ow and I have no trouble with feeding bounce to rbls
[00:42:51] <sahafeez> hum. let me do some reading
[00:43:54] <sahafeez>  The D_REJECT setting will cause the email message to be saved in the quarantine directory.
[00:44:20] <sahafeez> Once postfix supported before-queue filtering, we switched to D_REJECT mode.
[00:44:26] <sahafeez> i do before queue filtering.
[00:44:33] <hspaans> then they changed that setting
[00:45:14] <sahafeez> mail is not excepted, unless it passes the spam filter.
[00:45:53] <sahafeez> it is not postfix--filter--user. it is postfix w/filtering (should I say or should I go) then user
[00:46:11] <sahafeez> so the reject is sent before the mail is execpeted.
[00:46:27] <sahafeez> anyway. i have to run to the head doctor. be back in an hour.
[00:46:52] <hspaans> sahafeez: you need atleast lmtp for that and still then
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[00:48:02] <onbot> commit by James Anderson:  6486266 OPL cpu module lint warning
[00:48:20] * hspaans ; sleep enough
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[00:54:57] * jmcp concalls
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[01:04:37] <Theoden-Nexenta> http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=178416
[01:06:29] <Tpenta> hmmm, that's really sad that I only just noticed (after posting multiple time/datestamps into updates), .... happy birthday to me
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[01:07:14] <jamesd> Tpenta, and your boss gave you the day off too because its your b-day ;-p  and you spent 1/2 of it working
[01:07:35] <Tpenta> nah, I'm actually the tsc-systems/Kernel duty engineer this week
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[01:07:43] <kjetilho> Tpenta: hooray for you :-)
[01:07:47] <Tpenta> and I'm standing in for my bos snext week while he is overseas
[01:08:01] *** jamesd changes topic to "Latest builds: SXCR: 54 | ON: 55  | Happy Birthday  Tpenta!!!"
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[01:08:55] <alanc> Happy bday Tpenta
[01:11:15] <Tpenta> o dear
[01:11:32] * Tpenta hits the answer to the ultimate question, of life, the universe and everything
[01:12:36] <Tpenta> thank you alan
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[01:17:51] <_syphilis_> what's a transient reboot?
[01:18:06] <dwc-> the reboot comes and goes?
[01:18:07] <richlowe> reboot with kernel arguments specified for the next boot.
[01:18:11] <_syphilis_> ah
[01:18:12] <richlowe> if you mean the grub entry.
[01:18:17] <_syphilis_> yeah
[01:18:36] <richlowe> Tpenta: happy birthday.
[01:18:42] <Tpenta> thanks rich
[01:24:32] <onbot> commit by Lee Damico:  6506270 __EXTENSIONS__ does not make visible symbol altzone in /usr/include/time.h
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[01:40:16] <sahafeez> back. head is not shurnk
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[01:44:23] <edwardocallaghan> Hi all
[01:46:49] <jamesd> hi
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[01:52:12] <edwardocallaghan> Any one working on a PPC port ?
[01:52:23] <_syphilis_> in general, or here right now?
[01:52:24] <edwardocallaghan> Optimized on Cell
[01:52:47] <edwardocallaghan> Well I was thinking of a distro for the PS3
[01:53:07] <_syphilis_> i think you'd be better off with linux there
[01:53:16] <_syphilis_> but there are other cell systems that would be nice to support
[01:53:29] <edwardocallaghan> I was going to take my Fedora Core work and making a Optimized cut
[01:53:34] <jamesd> edwardocallaghan, they are working on a ppc port, they are focusing on a generic system before they move to other platforms
[01:54:04] <edwardocallaghan> *make
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[01:54:42] <edwardocallaghan> Seems slow though and as Solaris has been around RISC for some time now I was thinking that more could be done here
[01:55:04] <edwardocallaghan> Maybe I should be looking at NetBSD ?
[01:55:07] <jamesd> there home page is polaris.blastwave.org  but it seems there webserver is down at the moment
[01:55:36] <edwardocallaghan> Polaris haha I like it
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[02:06:14] <sahafeez> all linux for the ppc as of a few days ago was just the pcc and not the cell spe's
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[02:07:28] <ShadowHntr> cell != ppc :P
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[02:08:09] <sahafeez> bah. i know that but, the main cpu of the cell set is a ppc style bytecode chip so ppc for generic sake
[02:08:24] <ShadowHntr> ahhhhh
[02:08:25] <ShadowHntr> :)
[02:08:57] <sahafeez> it is the 90% the same ppc 3.2 chip in the xbox 360
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[02:10:32] <MikeTLive> Happy Birthday
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[02:17:18] <jamesd> hmm david bowie and Tpenta have something in common, they share a b-day
[02:18:09] <Tpenta> really
[02:18:16] <Tpenta> thanks mike
[02:18:34] <jamesd>  http://www.davidbowie.com/
[02:20:09] <Tpenta> we're also both musicians, he's just better than me and worked out how to make money from it :)
[02:20:20] <edwardocallaghan> The PS3 is very much faster then the XBook :p
[02:20:48] <lloy0076> Tpenta: Actually, that means you're probably better than him but he's bowed down to commercial pressure and made his music sellable to the main stream...
[02:20:55] <sahafeez> hum. well all i know is my friends xbox360 locks up all the time. which sucks
[02:20:58] <Tpenta> nah
[02:21:03] <sahafeez> bah
[02:21:20] <lloy0076> sahafeez: Isn't XBox made by Microsoft? Shouldn't you need to reboot them every time you die?
[02:21:23] <Tpenta> actually his bday is jan 8, mine is 9
[02:21:39] <sahafeez> sell out, get a bigger house and nice car, and some very hot shallow women to do all the nasty stuff you want :)
[02:21:54] * Tpenta needs coffee
[02:23:53] <edwardocallaghan> Microsoft is Reboot in Turkish I think
[02:24:30] <jamesd> edwardocallaghan, isn't sony   turkish for rootkit/explosion
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[02:28:09] <edwardocallaghan> jamesd:Did you just say 'sony is for rootkit'
[02:28:15] <edwardocallaghan> Ah hahaha
[02:28:37] <jamesd> edwardocallaghan, and  for explosion, at least when refering to batteries used in laptops.
[02:28:38] <kjetilho> Sun means "Saviour of the Universe" in Armenian
[02:28:55] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[02:29:15] <edwardocallaghan> Well I like RISC chips
[02:29:28] <edwardocallaghan> So I like the Cell and I like my SPARCs
[02:30:10] <edwardocallaghan> I am going to buy a PS3 and use it for a Desktop and a SACD & DVD player
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[02:36:02] <sahafeez> hum. i am trying to get my single friend with the disposable income to buy a ps3. he has an ps2 and xbo360. told him i would pony up for the combo cable for all 3 ;)
[02:36:17] <edwardocallaghan> http://www.karkomaonline.com/article.php/20061211014320527 Is there a reason why this page wants me to get wget with wget to install it ?
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[02:37:44] <lloy0076> Well, rebooting my machine finally convinced it that the web-site had actually changed. I tried: connecting directly to the net, clearing all of Firefox's caches, using my BrandZ Centos' seamonkey...
[02:37:45] <lloy0076> :(
[02:40:17] <edwardocallaghan> Anyone who can point me to a port to the Cell and not normal PPC ?
[02:40:35] <dlg> uhm...
[02:40:49] <dlg> i dont think you understand how those things fit together
[02:41:26] <Stric> edwardocallaghan: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=17652
[02:41:33] <dlg> think of the cell as something more like a crypto offload engine or something like that
[02:41:36] <sahafeez> a cell = a general cpu (a ppc) with links to a number of special (SPE) processors
[02:42:16] <edwardocallaghan> I know that
[02:42:25] <edwardocallaghan> And I know you guys know that
[02:42:26] <sahafeez> there is no cell port of anything
[02:43:04] <sahafeez> it is a ppc port - someone has to add support for any app to use the spe's
[02:43:17] <edwardocallaghan> So I was asking who is making a Kernel that knows about them links and is optimized just for Cell and not other general PPC chips
[02:43:52] <sahafeez> no one right now. sorta. ibm is and sony is and the new linux kernel knows about them but does not know how to use them yet.
[02:43:57] <dlg> edwardocallaghan: a kernel supporting a cell will have an extra driver to provide access to the cell chips
[02:44:16] <dlg> apart from that, there isnt really such a thing as "optimising a kernel for cell"
[02:44:19] <sahafeez> think of a world before SMP and someone gives you an SMP chip. the apps have to change
[02:44:45] <sahafeez> CELL /= SMP
[02:44:57] <dlg> sahafeez: thats a little different
[02:45:15] <dlg> you can modify a kernel to schedule on two cpus, and not change a single byte in userland
[02:45:42] <sahafeez> all i am saying is people think the cell is an SMP chip in the old style. well i have 1 CPU and 8 SPE so i have 9 way box.
[02:45:43] <dlg> that isnt necessarily true for a cpu with spes
[02:45:53] <dlg> yeah, theyre ignorant
[02:45:56] <dlg> :D
[02:49:10] <edwardocallaghan> no no its got two 3.2GHz PPC cores with 6 DSP's on there
[02:49:23] <edwardocallaghan> I have some ideas on how to use the DSP's
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[02:49:41] <edwardocallaghan> With a kind of hypervisor
[02:51:13] <edwardocallaghan> ideas at the moment, but ideas are good right
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[03:02:16] <aliquis> edwardocallaghan: The cell/ps3 or something else?
[03:02:29] <aliquis> the cell is one generic ppc core and 8 spes of which one is backup and one runs the os
[03:02:39] <aliquis> the one in the ps3 that is
[03:02:48] <edwardocallaghan> cell/ps3 but may use it for other projects in mind... some AI ?
[03:03:39] <aliquis> port of what? you can get a few linux dists on the ps3
[03:03:54] <aliquis> but i don't think they have support for the spes yet
[03:04:02] <aliquis> and i have no idea if they ever will ;)
[03:04:49] <kjetilho> hmm?  they have support for the SPEs, but not the GPU
[03:04:56] <edwardocallaghan> nor do I
[03:05:16] <aliquis> kjetilho: Support as in using them for anything or support as in that you can code for them?
[03:05:34] <kjetilho> that's why this vendor ported Yellowdog, he intended to sell it to HPC customers
[03:05:35] <edwardocallaghan> Well there boot time seems very slow from the videos on You Tube
[03:05:55] <kjetilho> who cares about boot time?
[03:06:10] <aliquis> on a game console? many ;)
[03:06:38] <kjetilho> you're not going to play games when you boot Linux
[03:07:20] <aliquis> some people probably are
[03:07:21] <aliquis> using emulators
[03:07:24] <Error_404> they'll try
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[03:07:34] <aliquis> some other might be watching video clips or music or wahtever
[03:07:35] <Error_404> and it'll be like the PS2... dog-slow and useless
[03:07:38] <aliquis> Error_404: lol
[03:07:55] <kjetilho> anyway, slow boot time is the least of your worries initially
[03:08:06] <aliquis> weird how the ps2 is much more expensive than the xbox and twice as expensive as a gamecube
[03:08:06] <aliquis> ;D
[03:08:17] <aliquis> considering it's the lowest end console of that generation
[03:08:20] <kjetilho> hardware accelerated OpenGL is the biggie IMHO.
[03:08:37] <aliquis> i guess drivers will be done/released sooner or later
[03:08:42] <kjetilho> the PS2 is cheaper than the Xbox over here *shrug*
[03:08:52] <aliquis> here you can probably not get an xbox longer
[03:08:59] <aliquis> but they was like 999 sek when 360 was released
[03:09:02] <aliquis> a pstwo is 1290
[03:09:07] <aliquis> a gamecube is 699 or 599 or whatever
[03:09:23] <aliquis> a wii is 2600 or something ;/
[03:10:10] <sahafeez> ps2 is like $129 here. ps3 is $599
[03:10:44] <Error_404> as for polaris on the ps3... i dunno, most of the people I've talked to interested in working on it want to give IBM the middle finger by making it run on beefy IBM hardware, rather than lame games consoles
[03:10:55] <sahafeez> and it is slow booting because it swaps on boot - it is only 256mb or ram in a ps3
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[03:11:38] <Error_404> 256M is plenty to load a kernel & init & friends
[03:11:58] <sahafeez> yes the videos that are being talked about involve booting to gnome
[03:12:33] <Error_404> oh, yeah... gnome's pretty bloated
[03:12:42] <Error_404> GTK chews through ram
[03:13:09] <sahafeez> enought fun. going home
[03:13:10] <sahafeez> night all
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[03:13:23] <kjetilho> it also boots twice, for some reason.
[03:13:50] <kjetilho> probably related to the initialisation of the SPEs
[03:14:56] <Error_404> I bought a copy of "modern operating systems" today
[03:15:11] <Error_404> it was on the priors rack @ the school bookstore, so i got 10% off
[03:16:38] <edwardocallaghan> Takes ages to unpack the kernel ?
[03:19:08] <edwardocallaghan> 1sec guys
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[03:25:28] <adp`> Error_404: so then it was only $90? :)
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[03:49:18] <Error_404> adp`: yes
[03:49:33] <_syphilis_> priors rack?
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[04:19:48] <Tpenta> http://secondlife.com/developers/opensource/   interesting
[04:20:33] <Tpenta> o bugger, they have platform specific non-redistributable libraries
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[04:22:41] <jamesd> Tpenta, so the opensource file is  main.c  which is basicly   main()  {   init_via_closed_libs();    start_display_libs_also_closed();  while(playing)  {  call_closed_libs() } ; clean_up_via_closed_libs(); }
[04:22:50] <Tpenta> :)
[04:23:01] <Tpenta> interesting, it's gpl'd but their are closed libs
[04:23:07] <Tpenta> there must be exceptions in the license
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[04:25:40] <elektronkind> open indeed
[04:27:09] <Tpenta> interestingly, they are doing gpl with the FLOSS exception
[04:27:12] <Tpenta> CDDL is then compatible
[04:37:15] <delewis> interesting, what is the client written in?
[04:37:16] <delewis> Java?
[04:37:27] <delewis> (no Solaris port) :-(
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[04:38:58] <jamesd> i beleve i read on  blogs.sun.com that sun is  funding the solaris port
[04:39:33] <delewis> sweet.
[04:39:38] <delewis> wonder if it'll run on SPARC
[04:40:01] <Tpenta> interesting
[04:40:19] <Tpenta> i still wonder about a pure gpl2 license and closed libs
[04:40:20] <delewis> yes, I've always wondered when someone would do something like this
[04:40:31] <delewis> in a somewhat "open" manner (e.g. not The Sims)
[04:46:17] <edwardocallaghan> Can some one tell me the diffrence in syntax from Linux in untaring this .tar.gz
[04:47:08] <jamesd> edwardocallaghan, simple way  /usr/sfw/bin/gtar  ( and syntax stays the same)
[04:47:19] <edwardocallaghan> Ah thanks
[04:47:23] <edwardocallaghan> And the hard way?
[04:47:30] <jamesd> complex way,   gunzip  tar.ggz   ; tar xvf   file.tar
[04:47:41] <dvorak> jamesd: don't let schilling hear you say that
[04:47:50] <dvorak> the one true way is star!
[04:48:00] <edwardocallaghan> I like the second one
[04:48:10] <dvorak> well, type more if you want to
[04:48:17] <jsubl2> gzip -dc file|tar -xf -
[04:48:20] <jamesd> or the schilly way...     install star.pkg.gz    and  star xf  tar.gz
[04:48:25] <delewis> that's the better way
[04:48:42] <delewis> gunzip tar.gz; tar xvf file.tar is going to do a lot more disk IO
[04:48:55] <delewis> gzip -dc < tar.gz | tar xvf - is going to through a pipe, which is a lot more efficient.
[04:49:07] <jamesd> i did say the hard way
[04:49:10] <dvorak> sure, and they're both slower than tar zxvf
[04:50:21] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[04:50:30] <edwardocallaghan> You guys are great
[04:51:32] <delewis> dvorak: no, that's just the way for people that don't know how to use their shell and love to violate the Unix philosophy of "a program should do one thing, and do it well"
[04:51:47] <dvorak> you forgot the </schilling>
[04:52:07] <dvorak> also, the rant about gnu tar being propietary and broken
[04:52:10] <jmcp> dvorak: and the </ritchie>
[04:52:21] <jmcp> or indeed </kernighan>
[04:53:10] * jamesd waits for multithreaded tar that can exploit the power of ZFS and yet run fast over NFS   without  znil disabled.
[04:53:23] <xinkeT> me too
[04:53:26] <dvorak> it'd be kind of hard to multithread tar
[04:53:38] <dvorak> well, I guess you could on the output side
[04:53:45] <dvorak> not sure it'd be faster though
[04:53:48] <xinkeT> gzip in hardware would be nice too
[04:53:58] <delewis> untar'ing something over ZFS/NFS is pretty bad.
[04:54:08] <delewis> (as I'm doing now)
[04:54:20] <jamesd> dvorak, they just have to spawn a tread while the fsync/commit stage  returns and the primary thread can continue to work.
[04:54:34] <edwardocallaghan> I still got to learn ZFS
[04:54:43] <delewis> I don't think you'd get much out of a multi-threaded tar
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[04:54:52] <edwardocallaghan> But scan.co.uk keep sending me broken hard drives
[04:54:53] <delewis> even if you split decompression off in a separate thread
[04:55:03] <delewis> it's hardly CPU intensive, where the obvious bottleneck is disk IO.
[04:55:06] <jamesd> basic zfs is damm easy... the complex reasons on why  its performance sucks in some cases is the complex parts.
[04:55:25] <delewis> ZFS, period, is easy, compared to something like VxVM.
[04:55:33] <delewis> plexes, subdisks, VM disks, volumes, etc.
[04:55:53] <dvorak> delewis: gnu tar just calls gzip anyway
[04:55:58] <dvorak> so it's already multi process
[04:56:05] <edwardocallaghan> Yea but I need some hard drives to get going with it
[04:56:12] <jamesd> delewis, currently the reason why  nfs on zfs sucks is that  it inforces the synconous nature  that other FS's and OS's  dont  so it wont return from close/fsync calls on a single file untill its really on disk.
[04:56:12] <edwardocallaghan> No use reading about it
[04:56:14] <delewis> dvorak: yeah, I figured they were doing something lame.
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[04:56:48] <nrubsig> !seen kupfer
[04:56:49] <delewis> edwardocallaghan: not really.
[04:56:50] <Drone> kupfer (kupfer!i=kupfer@nat/sun/x-1321d2c8f47a88d1) was last seen in #opensolaris on Thu 21 Dec 2006 19:56 GMT, saying 'Though I can't remember which driver at the moment...'.
[04:56:52] <delewis> you use files with ZFS
[04:56:55] <edwardocallaghan> delewis:Sorry did not see you there... How are you?
[04:56:55] <jamesd> delewis, http://blogs.sun.com/roch/entry/nfs_and_zfs_a_fine
[04:56:58] <delewis> which is something you can't do with VxVM
[04:57:19] <edwardocallaghan> I like to learn by playing
[04:57:19] <dvorak> you can't use lofi with vxvm?
[04:57:20] <delewis> or if you really want a disk-like setup, you can do a poor-man's storage setup via iSCSI
[04:57:44] <delewis> dvorak: I don't think so. You can't even use a single slice with VxVM. It has to be the entire disk.
[04:58:19] <delewis> that's not really unique, though -- AIX is the same way when it comes to storage.
[04:58:29] <delewis> of course *everything* in AIX is managed by the LVM, including the root filesystem.
[04:58:37] <mrdeviant> speaking of nfs and writes to non-volatile media, i have an old prestoserve sbus card in the attic somewhere...
[04:59:09] <edwardocallaghan> What's the name of the apache module to see php5 content ?
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[04:59:21] <jamesd> mrdeviant, which was the last version of solaris that supported it?
[04:59:21] <delewis> mod_php5 or something
[04:59:21] <nrubsig> dduvall: ping!
[05:00:08] <mrdeviant> not a clue. if i had to guess, i'd say 2.5 or 2.6
[05:01:30] <mrdeviant> hm. google claims that 7 still supported it
[05:01:52] <edwardocallaghan> I installed Apache2 from Blastware and I am trying to get it working with PHP5 from blastware ?
[05:01:54] <mrdeviant> it will be interesting to see if hybrid hard drives take off, and how that will interact w/ nfs
[05:02:08] <mrdeviant> edwardocallaghan, perhaps you should ask in #blastwave
[05:02:17] <dvorak> I like the way vista is doing it better overall, which is pretty similar to how prestoserves worked
[05:03:03] <edwardocallaghan> May be but I think delewis can may be help here?
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[05:04:25] <jamesd> mrdeviant, most of the people are just using them for laptops... but really if people really wanted better performance it would be easy for the disk makers to cash in just put a dimm sockets on the drives, then drive makers could sell dimms to add performance to the drives... need faster just install a 1GB dimm, and a special battery and your all set to have  300MB/s for a 3second burst on sata-II controllers
[05:05:20] <dvorak> it's about not having to spin the drive up for synchronous writes
[05:05:52] <mrdeviant> given that they're not out yet, i don't think "most people" are using them for anything.
[05:06:05] <dvorak> well, they're all 2.5" drives
[05:06:20] <jamesd> mrdeviant, a lot of laptop makers are saying they will use them in there next model
[05:06:27] <dvorak> writing to flash isn't especially fast
[05:06:29] <mrdeviant> and i'd much rather have real nvram than a battery backed dimm
[05:06:40] <mrdeviant> yes, i've seen the press releases
[05:07:13] <edwardocallaghan> Isn't there going to be 32~odd GB Flash hard drives coming soon
[05:07:48] <Doc> what's the term for double parity with raid-z?  is it raid-z2  or something?
[05:07:53] <jmcp> yup
[05:07:56] <jamesd> raidz2
[05:08:01] <jmcp> raid-z2 "double the parity, double the fun"
[05:08:08] * jmcp recalls the rfe justification
[05:08:20] <Doc> ta
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[05:15:16] <dwc-> edwardocallaghan: there's already 16gb flash drives
[05:15:33] <dwc-> 32 isn't much of a stretch
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[05:23:54] <edwardocallaghan> OK going to bed
[05:23:58] <edwardocallaghan> Thanks all
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[05:55:40] <ojpitre>  df -a
[05:56:10] <Error_404> ?
[05:56:20] <jamesd> wrong window obviously
[05:56:36] <ojpitre> ... sorry about that: wrong window ...
[05:57:03] <Tpenta> wow, I go ta happy bday from jonathan
[05:57:23] <Error_404> it's your birthday?
[05:57:28] <Error_404> Happy birthdat Tpenta
[05:57:35] <Error_404> birthday... stupid fingers
[05:57:43] <Tpenta> see blog :)
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[05:58:45] <boyd> Happy bday Alan
[05:59:02] <DataStream> john from anysystem?
[05:59:51] <boyd> DataStream: Schwartz, I assume
[06:00:00] <DataStream> ahh
[06:00:10] <Tpenta> yes boyd
[06:00:14] <Error_404> that's pretty cool
[06:01:00] <Tpenta> that's what i thought
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[06:04:18] <Error_404> though OTOH it means that the CEO reads your blog...
[06:07:22] <Tpenta> i always knew that
[06:07:31] <boyd> He has you in his calendar :)
[06:10:14] <lloy0076> He's watching you. *ALL* the time...
[06:10:49] <Error_404> lloy0076: i think he has better things to do with his time
[06:10:56] <Error_404> or I'd hope so anyways
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[06:12:03] <boyd> Error_404: you can think of something better to do than watch Tpenta all the time?
[06:12:43] <Error_404> count money? i dunno.... what's a CEO actually do?
[06:12:54] <boyd> Golf :)
[06:13:11] <boyd> WoW - the new golf
[06:14:17] <delewis> whatever happened to netrek :-(
[06:14:40] <boyd> Ahh.. yeah... what *did* happen to it?
[06:14:43] * boyd googles
[06:15:19] <delewis> it's still around.
[06:15:28] <delewis> I actually just got through playing it for about half an hour
[06:15:38] <delewis> still as fun as ever :-)
[06:15:55] <boyd> Does anyone play crossfire these days?
[06:16:33] * boyd googles again. Looks like it
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[06:21:27] <g4lt-U60> boyd, apparently going shooting is the new golc, according to the reg
[06:21:50] <boyd> Seems to be for the vice president, anyway
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[07:38:11] <nrubsig> At which runlevel is network-physical launched ?
[07:38:45] <Error_404> isn't it managed by SMF?
[07:39:20] <nrubsig> Error_404: yes
[07:39:41] <nrubsig> Error_404: my problem is that trhe script fails but works when I use the "restart" method.
[07:41:08] <steleman> nrubsig: you mean it doesnt start by default ?
[07:41:08] <nrubsig> I suspect it may happen because /usr is not mounted or something like that.
[07:41:22] <nrubsig> steleman: at boot time, yes
[07:41:36] <steleman> did you check the xml manifest if enabled='true'
[07:41:49] <steleman> if enabled='false' it wont start at startup
[07:41:52] <jbl^> what's the best way to make a bootable iso of an installed system after customizations have taken place
[07:42:03] <nrubsig> steleman: svcs -a | fgrep network/physical shows that it's enabled.
[07:42:12] <jbl^> for example after you've installed a boatload of packages and custom config files everywhere
[07:42:30] <steleman> did you do svcadm enable -rst  network/physical ?
[07:43:29] <nrubsig> no
[07:43:32] <nrubsig> why ?
[07:43:41] <steleman> because if you did it would show it as enabled
[07:44:19] <Triskelios> has the i810 driver been updated (I need 1.5.1 or newer for i945GM support, the one CR I can find on this is marked as a duplicate...)?
[07:44:21] <steleman> <instance name='default' enabled='true'>
[07:44:24] <nrubsig> steleman: it's the default configuration.
[07:44:27] <steleman> it is enabled
[07:44:32] <steleman> hrm weird
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[08:28:02] *** nrubsig changes topic to "Latest builds: SXCR: 54 | ON: 55  | Happy Birthday  Tpenta!!! :-) :-)"
[08:28:30] <razrX> Tpenta: gratz
[08:28:48] <Tpenta> :)
[08:29:23] <trygvis> :D
[08:29:26] <trygvis> (morning)
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[10:35:44] <raph_ael> hello
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[11:08:33] <noyb> hey there!
[11:08:58] <DataStream> Sup
[11:09:33] <noyb> nuh'in     :)
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[11:10:26] <noyb> seems like a few weeks since I've been here.  I've been neglecting the host that connects here.
[11:11:27] <noyb> HBTP
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[11:12:51] <DataStream> We all need a break now and again
[11:13:02] * noyb nods
[11:13:21] <Posixzombie> does anynody know: what is the paralle of forcdeth driver for solaris ?
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[11:15:33] <zdzichuBG> Posixzombie: nge
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[11:22:25] <Posixzombie> zdzichuBG, THNKS
[11:25:51] <Posixzombie> I have a solaris which is configured to have static IP. I want to set it permanaently to be dhcp clinet; It has an nvidia card; ls -al  /etc/dhcp* gives nothing; as I remember I should run "touch dhcp.nge0" and reboot; should I do anything else before reboot ?
[11:30:12] <lloy0076> Removing its entry in /etc/hosts if there is one, and possibly doing something with /etc/defaultrouter if there's an entry in there.
[11:30:46] <lloy0076> [I suspect that the dhcp client would handle something in /etc/hosts but a simple # to comment it out shouldn't be that difficult]
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[11:57:33] <Griff> is it safe enough to offline a cpu with x86?
[11:57:56] *** Griff is now known as Gr|ffous
[11:58:56] <DataStream> I dont see why not
[11:59:01] <DataStream> but thats just a guess
[11:59:41] <DataStream> I would assume if it wasnt safe they would have taken psradm out of sol x86
[11:59:41] <Gr|ffous> heh, wait for the connection timed out message...
[12:00:09] <DataStream> lol
[12:01:13] <Gr|ffous> hello... anyone still there?
[12:01:14] <Gr|ffous> ;)
[12:01:17] <Gr|ffous> I guess it works
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[12:02:04] <DataStream> yep
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[12:04:09] <Gr|ffous> any idea what offlining it actually does in terms of power usage? I'm hoping to shut the thing up over night so I can sleep
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[12:04:26] <Gr|ffous> less power going through a core in theory means less heat :)
[12:04:49] <DataStream> well i would guess the heat diferential would be minimal
[12:05:10] <DataStream> (unless you have like a E6500 and offline them all exept 1)
[12:05:11] <DataStream> lol
[12:06:04] <DataStream> My machines dont even have fans on the heatsinks, so i dought it would make any dif
[12:06:05] <Gr|ffous> heh, I wish. No, just a desktop machine with an x2. It seems that the frkit powernow driver only works with single cores. So close, but not quite (even when I tried cheating just now)
[12:06:47] <Gr|ffous> lots of other fans though?
[12:07:17] <DataStream> Yeah my X4200 has loads, sounds like an aircraft is taking on in my front room!!
[12:07:43] <Gr|ffous> you have a 4200 at home?!
[12:07:44] <DataStream> My U2's have only 1 fan i think
[12:07:47] <DataStream> yeah
[12:08:11] <Berny> hmm
[12:08:24] <DataStream> I had a E5500 but that was taking up far too much power, so i sold it, and put the cash towards a X4200
[12:08:26] <Gr|ffous> I have only heard 4100's (I have 2 at work), and they are WAY loud... then again 1U, what do you expect
[12:08:31] * Berny only got a t1000 and a x2200m2 @home
[12:08:35] <dlg> there's a lot to be said for having computers in another room
[12:09:34] <Gr|ffous> I would love to do something like that, but I still can't quite believe that these sun rays can replace your desktops without very noticable lag/delays
[12:09:35] <DataStream> Gr|ffous: They have 6 small fans at the front, 1 on the power supplys, and another one somewhere, and you know how smal fans scream
[12:10:02] <dlg> Gr|ffous: long cables work ok
[12:10:06] <DataStream> Berny: how load is the 2200m2?
[12:10:10] <dlg> or ssh
[12:10:20] <Gr|ffous> the 4100s have 12 up front, and to my surprise the power supplies are really quite loud even with the server off
[12:10:25] <DataStream> Gr|ffous: yeah sunrays are very nice
[12:10:37] <DataStream> no they cant have 12 fans up front
[12:10:46] <Berny> DataStream: about as loud as the t1000... too loud to place them under your bed ;-)
[12:10:58] <Berny> during post they're like jets
[12:11:03] <DataStream> yeah
[12:11:03] <DataStream> lol
[12:11:17] <DataStream> all galaxy class boxes are stupidly load
[12:11:18] <Gr|ffous> dlg, ssh is a great server tool, but I can't image living life on the console, especially only *ONE* console. I am still getting used to the fact that solaris doesn't have virtual consoles
[12:11:33] <Berny> Gr|ffous: man screen ;-)
[12:11:36] <Gr|ffous> DataStream, I counted. 12
[12:11:41] <DataStream> Gr|ffous: if you have a laptop or something, SGD is basiacly exactly the same as a sunray
[12:11:41] <Gr|ffous> 6 wide, 2 deep
[12:11:44] <dlg> i use a mac laptop
[12:11:49] <dlg> and do ALL my work on remote systems
[12:12:12] <DataStream> 2 deep on a 1U box
[12:12:18] <Gr|ffous> Berny, well... ok sure. I still can't imagine live without a gui
[12:12:25] <DataStream> just checking photos.sun.com
[12:12:50] <DataStream> nope, same as the X4200 ...
[12:12:55] <DataStream> http://photos.sun.com/asset/4313?returnPage=/search/results.jsp
[12:12:59] <Berny> Gr|ffous: vnc ;-)
[12:13:04] <DataStream> oh wait, no your right
[12:13:13] <DataStream> there is 2 on each unit
[12:13:14] <Gr|ffous> hah, vnc performance really sucks
[12:13:25] <dlg> its better than x a lot of the time
[12:13:42] <Berny> tight-vnc is what i use from home over a 56kbit modem line ;-)
[12:14:07] <DataStream> I have used SGD from work with a 256 upload from here, and it seem'd very smooth
[12:14:34] <Gr|ffous> hmm, I must look into SGD some more
[12:14:45] <Gr|ffous> how many heads can a sunray handle?
[12:15:02] <DataStream> Its even like a ray where you can suspend your desktop, and come back, login and have it exactly how you left it
[12:15:12] <lasseoe> one per sunray I believe
[12:15:25] <lasseoe> but you can tie them together somehow
[12:15:26] <DataStream> The new rays have dual moniter output
[12:15:40] <DataStream> well there is 2 kinds, the normal one or the dual head one
[12:15:47] <Gr|ffous> I'm tri-head here... it would be hard going back to 2 :)
[12:15:52] <DataStream> The new rays look very nice
[12:16:17] <Berny> iirc you can group rays together to "one" ray
[12:16:23] <lasseoe> yes
[12:17:26] <Gr|ffous> is there a way of simulating a sun ray in software, so I could get a feel for what it would be like - other then SGD that is?
[12:17:40] <Cyrille> you can create multihead groups in the administration UI.
[12:17:52] <DataStream> SGD is the close'st your gonna get
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[12:17:55] <Berny> there is no "software" ray
[12:18:11] <lasseoe> Gr|ffous: there's no difference from a desktop really,except you don't have a console
[12:18:18] <lasseoe> only a graphical session
[12:19:07] <Cyrille> yes, the whole point is that you get a login and desktop just as you would on a workstation.
[12:19:20] <DataStream> Gr|ffous: download it, its free for 30 days, and you can email sun for a eval licence
[12:19:33] <Snake007uk> hey guys has anyone got a good link to Solaris RBAC vs SeLinux...
[12:19:45] <Gr|ffous> How is it different to a basic hp thin client and *shudder* MS terminal services?
[12:19:50] <DataStream> its all done though a web browser, so as long as you have a browser on your box, you can access your sun GUI from any box
[12:19:57] <Snake007uk> just in a covresation with someone about RBAC on solaris, and that i dont personally think there is anything like it on linux
[12:20:17] <Snake007uk> he belives SE-Linux is a like for like? would like to confirm this
[12:21:36] * DataStream takes SE-linux, spits on it, then throws it out the window!
[12:21:50] <andersmo> SELinux is a bit more than just rbac.
[12:23:00] <Cyrille> Gr|ffous: don't know enough about HP thin clients (but I know some thin clients are thicker than they claim), but comparing to MS Terminal Services is not fully adequate, because terminal services only deal with providing multiple sessions from a machine, but don't really say much about the client box.
[12:23:22] <Snake007uk> andersmo, ok, but if we were just talking about RBAC itseld
[12:23:25] <Snake007uk> itself
[12:23:39] <andersmo> Generally it is more of a framework to hook policies for access control into. The policies themselves are still being hammered out, but they focus a lot on hardening individual services in addition to multilevel security and roles.
[12:25:13] <Gr|ffous> Cyrille, ok, so the advantage there being that the client side is extra thin?
[12:26:08] <Gr|ffous> I understand the power saving, that's great I guess :)
[12:26:13] <DataStream> The advantages of thin clients?
[12:26:25] <lasseoe> Mobility is a major advantage
[12:26:35] <lasseoe> Central Administration
[12:26:51] <lasseoe> Quiter office
[12:27:18] <Gr|ffous> I guess I'm just not really understanding what it is that makes sunray so much better then the other solutions out there. I don't want to support ms here (please don't make me), but I guess I'm not understanding the big fundemental difference.
[12:27:47] <lasseoe> do you not need a PCto run MS Terminal Services?
[12:27:50] <Gr|ffous> They both give you the thin client model, both allow you to log in from anywhere, using a low bandwidth connection, and to resume sessions
[12:28:09] <Snake007uk> andersmo, so the rbac for user control hooks havent actually been finished? so they are currently working on services
[12:28:11] <DataStream> well rays are basically terminal servers, no hard drives, and that
[12:28:17] <DataStream> quiet
[12:28:32] <Gr|ffous> I read something about them using 4W. That's awesome
[12:29:24] <DataStream> Its basically just a small box you can plug your moniter/keyboard/mouse into it, and access your GUI from other machines on the network
[12:29:28] <Gr|ffous> I have to confess it seems a bit of and odd arguement in some respects though. HP are bad because they include a full PC that you can use to TS to a host and sunrays come with nothing...uh. Now I understand the power saving arguement and am all for it
[12:30:02] <andersmo> Snake007uk: Depends on the distribution. seedit.sourceforge.net/doc/2.0/rbac_guide.pdf seems to describe a working RBAC policy for selinux. I haven't actually used rbac on selinux myself, you see, but I've played with selinux in general.
[12:30:05] <Gr|ffous> DataStream, I guess I've just come from a call centre related job where they did just that with these little HP thin clients, using windows
[12:30:21] <Gr|ffous> About the size of a book, flash based
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[12:30:34] <DataStream> Gr|ffous: yeah jamesd has got windows remote desktop in a ray
[12:30:35] <lasseoe> Gr|ffous: got sound and USB support on them?
[12:30:47] <Gr|ffous> yup, 4 usb ports
[12:30:54] <lasseoe> ok..
[12:31:00] <Gr|ffous> I think they had sound, I don't really remember tbh
[12:31:17] <lasseoe> Not too bad then,reasonably similar ot Sunrays then
[12:31:26] <Gr|ffous> these things: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/sm/WF04a/12132708-12133552-12133552-12133552-12133560.html
[12:31:26] <DataStream> They dont play movies well though :P
[12:31:42] <lasseoe> DataStream: I wouldn't say that Sunrays do either
[12:31:46] <lasseoe> but it's doable
[12:31:49] <Gr|ffous> t5520 by the looks...
[12:32:00] <DataStream> lasseoe: thats what i ment, i havent used the HP ones
[12:32:08] <lasseoe> DataStream: ah ok right on, sorry
[12:32:13] <DataStream> :)
[12:32:26] <Gr|ffous> so the sunray does much the same thing, but with less power usage. but they don't have an OS, pxe boot?
[12:32:50] <andersmo> Snake007uk: "linux", as in the kernel, doesn't come with any selinux policies, it's up to the distribution if and how they want to use selinux. Distros focus on different things...
[12:33:06] <Berny> argh
[12:33:15] <triplah_> HP Compaq t5710 Thin Client
[12:33:17] <triplah_> that one has pxe
[12:33:20] <lasseoe> Sunrays require an IP using DHCP and also ask forsome DHCP extensions which tells it where to find it's servers
[12:33:27] <Berny> sdm/web from the dlc is cool but hey what's the ads in there?
[12:33:34] <lasseoe> acquire even
[12:33:44] <Snake007uk> andersmo,  oh cheers for the info dude
[12:34:23] <tsoome> lasseoe: basically Xdisplayserver is enough from dhcp
[12:34:33] <lasseoe> tsoome: yes
[12:34:52] <DataStream> DHCP is the reson you cant install it in a zone isnt it
[12:34:58] <lasseoe> but then you'd miss out on some features like firmware updates
[12:35:05] <DataStream> I mean thats where the problem lies
[12:35:06] <lasseoe> DataStream: indeed
[12:35:43] <DataStream> Hopefully that will be sorted in the next SRSS release
[12:35:59] <tsoome> SRSS in zone?
[12:36:04] <DataStream> yeah
[12:36:12] <lasseoe> It's a Solaris Zone issue, not reallySRSS :)
[12:36:21] <tsoome> SRSS is admin services + kernel modules
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[12:36:44] <tsoome> therefore no clean local zone support
[12:36:51] <DataStream> Oh right i thought it was an SRSS issue, oh well
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[12:37:30] <DataStream> Does SRSS stand for Sun Ray Software Solution?
[12:37:31] <tsoome> but as for display - I guess it's possible to set up local zone for desktop users
[12:37:32] <lasseoe> tsoome: sure there arekernel modules?
[12:37:50] <tsoome> just a sec
[12:38:02] <lasseoe> DataStream: Sun Ray Server Software (I think)
[12:38:11] <DataStream> ahh
[12:39:01] <dlg> why does it need kernel bits?
[12:39:04] <tsoome> yes there are
[12:39:08] <lasseoe> hm
[12:39:19] <tsoome> I'm sorry now:
[12:39:23] <tsoome> 210 7bb44000   41a8 297   1  utadem (Sun Ray Audio Driver Emulator)
[12:39:24] <tsoome> 211 7b7e87b0   1c30   -   1  ut_util (Sun Ray Driver Utilities)
[12:39:24] <tsoome> 212 7bbbde68    414 298   1  utserial (Sun Ray I/O Serial Port Driver )
[12:39:24] <tsoome> 213 7b7f8000   28d0   -   1  utio (Sun Ray I/O Loopback Driver v1.)
[12:39:24] <tsoome> 214 7bba9e48    424 299   1  utparallel (Sun Ray I/O Parallel Port Drive)
[12:39:24] <tsoome> 215 7bb2bcb8    578 300   1  sunray (Sun Ray driver)
[12:39:26] <tsoome> 216 7b2b4000   7468 301   1  utdiskctl (Sun Ray disk controller v1.31)
[12:39:28] <tsoome> 217 7bfea1c0   1f80 302   1  utdisk (Sun Ray storage driver v1.13)
[12:39:29] <lasseoe> oh of course, yes
[12:39:38] <dlg> surely its just a cool x server
[12:39:56] <Berny> btw can sgd run in a local zone?
[12:40:05] <tsoome> sgd?
[12:40:06] <oxygene> dlg: it also proxies audio and a couple of other things
[12:40:19] <cmihai> SSGD can run in a zone if that's what you mean...
[12:40:23] <DataStream> Yes i have SGD in a zone
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[12:40:55] <DataStream> tsoome: Sun Secure Global Desktop
[12:40:59] <Berny> very well... lets try that
[12:41:04] <tsoome> ah yes
[12:41:18] <DataStream> (Tarantella)
[12:41:39] <Gr|ffous> so if I wanted to get a feel for how the sunray experience is, I could install sgd in a zone while running JDS in my global, and connect to a secord host running the SRSS?
[12:41:48] <tsoome> I have tryed it out once but never managed to get an working setup:)
[12:42:23] <cmihai> Doesn't like my "secure by default" thing :)
[12:42:26] <DataStream> It pretty much always works out of the box for me (expet when i tried on the new locked down services install on 11/06)
[12:42:27] <Gr|ffous> though if I had to vnc to my zone, I guess that would rather ruin the experience before I even hit the network
[12:43:11] <DataStream> Gr|ffous: With SGD you just install on the solaris box, then you can access any GUI app or the whole JDS from any machine with a we browser
[12:44:17] <cmihai> Bah, the whole 30 day trial thing is runing my experience
[12:44:30] <cmihai> "Free to download" heh.
[12:44:35] <DataStream> cmihai: how did you get it working?
[12:44:48] <cmihai> DataStream: older Solaris.
[12:44:56] <cmihai> 6/06
[12:45:01] <DataStream> cmihai: you can email sun and ask them for a eval licence
[12:45:02] <cmihai> Had one around.
[12:45:11] <DataStream> jamesd got one for a year and 5 users
[12:45:15] <cmihai> Cool.
[12:45:22] <DataStream> ask him for the email you ahve to send it to
[12:45:27] <cmihai> I will, thanks.
[12:45:30] <DataStream> np
[12:45:50] <DataStream> it used to be free, so i ahve a licence from then, then they changed the licence ruels
[12:45:58] <cmihai> Yeah, I heard.
[12:46:13] <cmihai> Too bad I guess. It's pretty sweet.
[12:46:27] <DataStream> Its a fantastic app
[12:49:36] <Snake007uk> is Sun Global Desktop still free??
[12:50:35] <cmihai> No :(
[12:50:56] <cmihai> And with just a user (me) and a handfull of machines... can't say it's usage would be justified for me.
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[12:54:03] <jteo> hello *.
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[12:54:32] <cmihai> Hm.. damn, Solaris can't use a Zen player :(
[12:54:57] <Cyrille> Gr|ffous: what would be kinda close to the sun ray experience (or the thin client experience to be more precise) would be to start a session someplace, run x11vnc in it to share it, and then use vnc to access that session from any other box.
[12:55:26] <triplah_> cmihai: say what now?
[12:55:43] <triplah_> ps, has solaris got mono yet?
[12:56:05] <triplah_> ah, it does
[12:56:12] <Berny> triplah_: it's in the jds-extra stuff iirc
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[12:56:39] <triplah_> cmihai: if you can get banshee built and running, it has pretty good DAP support
[12:56:40] <Gr|ffous> vnc still has a noticable mouse delay... I'm hoping the a real sunray experience doesn't, but yup -  get the idea
[12:57:03] <cmihai> triplah_: that so? Cool.
[12:57:10] <Cyrille> I meant for the general idea of getting back the same session from different access points.
[12:57:21] <Cyrille> not for the specific performance or features.
[12:57:44] * gallium remembers the "SoftRay" ;-)
[12:57:45] <Cyrille> otherwise, if you want to experience Sun Ray, you need to at least buy one ;-)
[12:58:23] <jteo> :)
[12:58:42] <Gr|ffous> fair enough. It still sounds a heck of a lot like windows terminal services/citrix. I'm well familiar with that
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[12:59:40] <gallium> we at one point had phone switching via PABX in sync with SunRay smartcard.
[13:00:05] <cmihai> Only thing client I've got here is a IBM Netstation a'la' 1997 :)
[13:00:13] <gallium> Quite easy to do nowadays with IP-PBX and something like Asterisk
[13:00:40] <cmihai> Still did the whole smartcard auth thing.
[13:00:45] <cmihai> Pretty cool I guess.
[13:01:06] <gallium> we had downloaded crypto java classes to the smartcard including keys etc. was very nice on a javacard
[13:01:18] <DataStream> Oh yeah, you gotta have the smartcard in the thin clients, its what they are all about :
[13:01:21] <DataStream> :)
[13:01:31] <jteo> it's sad that much of the public will never experience Sunrays. :(
[13:02:13] <gallium> there's some new dual-head ones now that have fibre networking
[13:02:16] <quasi> jteo: indeed - buying them could be made much easier
[13:02:21] <Cyrille> Gr|ffous: you're right, as far as session access and mobility is concerned it's all very similar. Then the access devices come into play.
[13:02:50] <Gr|ffous> smart cards, and fingerprint scanners etc?
[13:02:52] <cmihai> gallium: the whole fiber thing doesn't sound very usefull.
[13:02:56] <gallium> in the early days there was a craze for hooking up PDAs via serial ports to a sunray that only had usb. Thank goodness that's over.
[13:02:59] <Cyrille> we used to joke that Sun Rays were our best kept secret ;-)
[13:03:03] <cmihai> Unless you actually belive that helps with security :)
[13:03:07] <gallium> cmihai: that's critical for DoD etc.
[13:03:14] <cmihai> Yeah
[13:03:23] <quasi> cmihai: the fibre thing is mostly for those paranoid about others sniffing their signals
[13:03:39] <quasi> cmihai: it isn't any faster
[13:03:42] <gallium> Cyrille: still do! ;)
[13:04:03] <cmihai> quasi: yep.
[13:04:06] <Cyrille> well, it got a lot more exposure in the last few years.
[13:04:48] <quasi> but as always with sun gear, it is hard to buy if you're not in .us
[13:04:49] <cmihai> quasi: and for people who implement ISO/IEC 17799 or BS 7799.
[13:04:52] <gallium> sunrays on a thumper box - ooh yeah. Portable PVR with 20TB if you get the TadPole Wireless SunRay thinbook. ;)
[13:05:12] <cmihai> "thinbook" is an overstatement with Tadpoles
[13:05:18] <gallium> heh
[13:05:21] <cmihai> Light and thin just don't mix with Tadpoles.
[13:05:23] <jteo> and buying SunRays first hand from Sun is...unwise.
[13:05:47] <gallium> cmihai: you didn't see the ones with no hdd?
[13:05:54] <quasi> gallium: I've heard that the sunray video isn't quite up to the video speeds to make it good enough to drive an hdtv
[13:06:15] <darrenm> quasi: that is true it isn't intended fro doing full screen streaming video
[13:06:25] <gallium> quasi: right, not quite smooth at 1080i ;)
[13:06:29] <darrenm> it does work find for 3D graphics - IIRC about 20fps is where it is at
[13:06:38] <Cyrille> that's definitely not the intended use case.
[13:06:43] <cmihai> Sadly, quasi is right. It's hard to buy Sun's if you're not from the US.
[13:06:47] <quasi> darrenm: unfortunately - I'd love to just have a sunray next to my tv
[13:06:56] <gallium> ebay has a few every now and again.
[13:07:29] <quasi> gallium: my problem is I want the 2FS sunray - those are too new to be on sale elsewhere
[13:07:54] <jteo> quasi: patience is a virtue.
[13:07:55] <gallium> quasi: do you know anyone at sun? :)
[13:07:57] <Berny> call your local sun sales critter
[13:08:02] <cmihai> quasi: ah, TwinView :)
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[13:08:13] <darrenm> I have seen someone using Sun Ray as part of a roaming audio setup
[13:08:22] <darrenm> but movie playing isn't upto it
[13:08:27] <cmihai> Am I the only one who HATES sun's "register to see movie" thing?
[13:08:36] <quasi> cmihai: more the 1900x1200
[13:08:40] <cmihai> I must type like half a page of crap to see their presentations. Isn't that in THEIR interest?
[13:09:08] <gallium> cmihai: is it worse than no registration to DRM protected movie? :)
[13:09:13] <cmihai> Gaaah
[13:09:21] <gallium> cmihai: but i agree with you
[13:09:50] <Gr|ffous> how about normal 1024x768 for video
[13:09:57] <darrenm> what register to see movie thing ?
[13:10:14] <cmihai> Any of their "watch video" things.
[13:10:16] <Gr|ffous> I too would like to try a pvr style setup. I don't have a thumper, but I am serving up 1TB of meda to our projector
[13:10:28] <cmihai> They use realplayers and expect you to register, etc.
[13:10:45] <Gr|ffous> I guess with 4W of power usage, I could actually put the sun ray up in the roof too
[13:10:52] <cmihai> http://www.sun.com/sunray/sunray2fs/ - click on any Watch Film.
[13:11:08] <cmihai> A 20-entry form shall appear and ask what's your grandma's social security number.
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[13:11:48] <Cyrille> but isn't that the same identification as for the download centre, the forums, etc?
[13:12:11] <darrenm> that isn't on a Sun site thats on http://www.accelacast.com/webcasts/gartner_sunmicro/
[13:12:31] <Cyrille> and I'm sure you're exaggerating, we don't care about your grandma's social security number... her maiden name, on the other hand... ;-)
[13:13:02] <darrenm> it is usually mothers maiden name that is interesting though ;-)
[13:13:06] <DataStream> Cyrille: you work for sun?
[13:13:23] <Cyrille> uh oh
[13:13:26] <Cyrille> yes
[13:13:27] <DataStream> What country you in?
[13:13:39] <Cyrille> France
[13:14:03] <Cyrille> why?
[13:14:15] <darrenm> that form accepted the value 'a' for all fields except phone number which I gave as '1' and email which I gave as a at example dot com ;-)
[13:14:16] <DataStream> If i give you a part number you think you can get them for me? oviously ill pay for them and give you a drink on top
[13:14:17] <jteo> sinister folks, all of you.
[13:14:20] <cmihai> Cyrille: doesn't seem to be the same ID.
[13:14:25] <cmihai> I mean, doesn't work with my email.
[13:14:28] <darrenm> just because someone asks doesn't mean you should give the info ;-)
[13:15:09] <DataStream> Cyrille: If not, no big thing, im just haveing problems getting them, no one seems to have them in stock
[13:15:15] <Cyrille> cmihai: urk, that's weird then.
[13:15:56] <cmihai> And all info is used by Accelacommunications.
[13:16:01] <cmihai> So it's not a Sun thing.
[13:16:08] <quasi> darrenm: a question for you - does the openssl on solaris 10 support the accelerator on T1000s?
[13:16:15] <darrenm> yes
[13:16:23] <darrenm> there is a caveat though
[13:16:38] <darrenm> the application calling the OpenSSL APIs must be using the OpenSSL ENGINE functionality
[13:16:46] <darrenm> Apache mod_ssl does that
[13:17:00] <Cyrille> DataStream: I don't know actually, I've never bought stuff from Sun so I'm not even sure how I'd go about doing that or if it would be any simpler than you getting it. Where are you located and what are you looking for?
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[13:17:14] <DataStream> Cyrille: im in UK
[13:17:23] <jteo> darrenm: how's your zfs crypto work comin' along?
[13:17:32] <DataStream> and part number is 541-0239
[13:17:57] <DataStream> Its just disk spuds for the X4200 2.5" SAS drives
[13:18:05] <quasi> darrenm: that was the one I had in mind (for eos.apache.org)
[13:18:12] <DataStream> I have found a couple of companys that sell them, but they are out of stock
[13:18:20] <DataStream> and say they are hard to get hold of
[13:18:25] <darrenm> zfs crypto slowly - lots of other stuff on my plate including lofi crypto
[13:18:37] <delewis> darrenm: nice, I'm looking forward to both.
[13:18:46] <DataStream> At first i dind think you could buy them, but oviosuly you can, just not easyly
[13:19:50] <delewis> it'll be curious to see how ZFS crypto and lofi crypto stands up to what OpenBSD/NetBSD (encrypted UFS) and Linux (encrypted loopback)
[13:20:03] <delewis> are doing*
[13:20:44] <darrenm> lofi crypto is similar in architecture to encrypted loopback since lofi is similar to the Linux loop driver (we didn't call it loop because that could be confusing with the loopback network driver ;-))
[13:20:53] <darrenm> it you want to see the design look at the loficc project page on opensolaris.org
[13:21:08] <darrenm> for ZFS crypto it will be quite different to encrypted UFS because ZFS is quite different to UFS ;-)
[13:21:56] <dlg> openbsd doesnt have an encrypted ufs
[13:22:21] <dlg> netbsd doesnt either
[13:22:22] <delewis> might just be NetBSD that I'm thinking about.
[13:22:27] <dlg> netbsd has cgd
[13:22:29] <delewis> you can encrypt an entire disk.
[13:22:31] <delewis> ah, yes.
[13:22:34] <dlg> some crypto block devices
[13:22:47] <dlg> openbsd can do some basic crypto via vnd stuffs
[13:22:50] <darrenm> full disk encryption is what lofi crypto will give you
[13:22:57] <cmihai> dlg: not of much use.
[13:23:01] <dlg> both are more like the loop stuff in netbsd
[13:23:04] <cmihai> dlg: can't put root on it, can't do more than 1TB
[13:23:05] <cmihai> etc
[13:23:13] <cmihai> dlg: NetBSD has a nice framework though.
[13:23:14] <delewis> fun.
[13:23:15] <darrenm> for ZFS crypto will be a property of the dataset just like compression and checksum are
[13:23:20] <dlg> cmihai: vnd is way less than a TB
[13:23:25] <delewis> darrenm: very nice.
[13:23:28] <cmihai> dlg: 16GB?
[13:23:30] <dlg> and you cant safely use more than a TB under openbsd anyway
[13:23:35] <dlg> cmihai: probably 2 GB
[13:23:56] <cmihai> dlg: well, there's FFS that can't go beyond 2TB... then there's vnconfig that can't go beyond 16GB...
[13:24:04] <oxygene> darrenm: will the names of subsets of a dataset be encrypted, too?
[13:24:07] <cmihai> Not sure how it would go down to 2GB though.
[13:24:34] <oxygene> darrenm: ie, if I encrypt pool/home, can someone see that there is pool/home/oxygene without the key?
[13:24:59] <cmihai> NetBSD's CGD is nice though. And so is FreeBSD GELI and gbde
[13:25:24] <delewis> cmihai: nice enough to trust your production data with?
[13:25:27] <cmihai> But let's hope ZFS can blast all that way.
[13:25:30] <cmihai> delewis: no, not really.
[13:25:35] <cmihai> Like you said, it's hardly more than a toy.
[13:25:57] <cmihai> But we'll also need encrypted swap.
[13:26:04] <cmihai> As to avoid what happend with MacOS
[13:26:14] <cmihai> It's encrypted thing stored the key in plain text in the swap :)
[13:26:23] <cmihai> Filesafe or whatever it's called :)
[13:26:47] <dlg> doesnt macos do swap encryption?
[13:26:56] <darrenm> oxygene: I'm not yet sure if I can encrypted the dataset names, normal file and directory names should be no problem.  It is on my todo list to look at dataset name encryption.
[13:27:01] <cmihai> dlg: it does now.
[13:27:05] <cmihai> It didn't use to.
[13:27:06] <dlg> cmihai: haha
[13:27:09] <dlg> hilarious
[13:27:12] <oxygene> cmihai: for that, marking the page unswappable (as gnupg does) should be enough
[13:27:31] <darrenm> one simple encrypted swap solution comes for free with lofi crypto and ZFS crypto - since you can swap on an lofi device or a ZFS provided ZVOL.
[13:27:44] <darrenm> it isn't perfect encrypted swap but it is better than nothing in some use cases
[13:27:45] <oxygene> darrenm: ah, nice to hear that you're at least evaluating it - more confidence that it's a really thought out job :)
[13:28:15] <cmihai> Yep.
[13:28:16] <darrenm> the other thing I need to look at is how crypto interacts with zfs send/recv
[13:28:31] <darrenm> encrypted swap is problematic with suspend/resume to disk though!
[13:28:38] <cmihai> Hm... with compression and crypto ZFS is gonna be really kickass
[13:28:42] <darrenm> which btw is vulnerable for MacOS File fault
[13:28:50] <darrenm> s/fault/Vault/g
[13:28:57] <cmihai> Hehe
[13:29:02] <cmihai> File Fault sounds better :P
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[13:30:52] <cmihai> darrenm: what are you planning to use? Blowfish?
[13:45:17] <sickness> i'm back
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[13:48:34] <lasseoe>  /nick vaccine
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[13:49:47] <Cyrille> DataStream: the part in question isn't even in the Sun catalog. Did you try http://www.acclinet.co.uk/sun_servers_uk/x64/sun_fire_x4100/XRA-SS2CD-73G10K_541-0239.asp
[13:49:51] <Cyrille> ?
[13:49:58] <darrenm> (12:30:52) cmihai: darrenm: what are you planning to use? Blowfish?
[13:49:59] <darrenm> AES
[13:50:18] <darrenm> Even Schnier says use AES over Blowfish these days
[13:50:33] <darrenm> now given that ZFS will be using the crypto framework it should be easy to add new algorithms
[13:50:52] <DataStream> Cyrille: yeah ill have to email them, i tried -->
[13:50:53] <DataStream> http://www.memoryxsun.com/5410239.html
[13:50:57] <darrenm> and I may implement a blowfish method as well - from the point of view of checking the alternate algorithm capability
[13:51:07] <DataStream> and i tried a VAR over here that i bought my X4200 from
[13:51:12] <DataStream> but no luck
[13:51:42] <Cyrille> sorry, but it doesn't even look as if we're selling this... I guess you'll have to buy another 4200 ;-)
[13:51:47] <darrenm> The plan of record is AES is CCM mode, we looked at CBC, ECB, CTR, LRW and all of those have problems at some level that CCM/GCM don't have
[13:51:56] <lasseoe> or at least another Sun disk :)
[13:52:23] <DataStream> Cyrille: the thing is, those drives cost 290 pounds per 73gig drivs, but i have been offerd 3 of those drives for 200 pounds
[13:52:29] <DataStream> i just need to find the spuds :
[13:53:02] <cmihai> You can't find any.
[13:53:08] <cmihai> It's one of my major problems also.
[13:53:14] <Cyrille> or just use a couple of paperclips and nails bent just right, with some sticky tape on top.
[13:53:14] <cmihai> Got plenty of disks, but no spuds.
[13:53:25] <cmihai> Cyrille: actually did that once on a RS/6000 :)
[13:53:56] <cmihai> Really in tone with the whole "heavy metal / big iron" thing
[13:54:03] <DataStream> Yeah on my U2 i had the disk sitting on a post-it note stack
[13:54:11] <cmihai> lol, yeah
[13:54:18] <cmihai> It was raised with yellow stickynotes :P
[13:54:20] <darrenm> is it actually the same drives or the same size of disk with the same interface connector - there is a firmware difference in some of the drives Sun ships
[13:55:04] <cmihai> The major problem was the connector. Lucky me I found SCSI drives that only had one connector for power and data, just like the spuds did to regular disks
[13:55:33] <DataStream> Cyrille: just emaild that place, thanks for your time
[13:55:45] <Cyrille> DataStream: no problem.
[13:57:44] <delewis> cmihai: yeah, RS/6000s and pSeries sometimes have very funky drive connectors, despite being SCSI.
[13:57:52] <delewis> the newer systems are especially annoying
[13:58:07] <delewis> the spud has an adapter to convert from SCA to some funky PCI card looking connector.
[13:58:23] <cmihai> Exactly
[13:58:47] <cmihai> That makes it a PITA to use regular drives without the spuds.
[13:58:53] <jteo> lock in eh.
[13:58:58] <cmihai> Yeah...
[13:59:01] <delewis> yeah, I'm trying to acquire some for Elarasys
[13:59:04] <cmihai> Nothing worse then vendor locking
[13:59:06] <cmihai> lockin
[13:59:13] <delewis> but they charge an arm and a leg for them despite being the cheapest vendor -- about $50/spud.
[13:59:23] <cmihai> Holy ...
[13:59:32] <cmihai> Especially if the things are no longer produced
[13:59:37] <cmihai> Or just damn expensive
[13:59:42] <delewis> I think they're still using in them in the latest systems.
[13:59:49] <delewis> a p650 we had at work had them, too.
[14:00:01] <delewis> and that was POWER4 which is fairly recent (last 3 years, anyway)
[14:00:22] <delewis> the other system we had was just attached to an IBM ESS (Shark) so no internal drives to peak at.
[14:00:22] <cmihai> Had some issues with a failed disk in the RAID-5 on the RS/6000 and I couldn't find any spuds to add a simple hotspare
[14:00:32] <delewis> cmihai: VxVM?
[14:00:35] <cmihai> Nah
[14:00:36] <cmihai> LVM
[14:00:41] <delewis> you can't do RAID 5 with LVM
[14:00:47] <cmihai> I had a controller.
[14:00:50] <delewis> ah
[14:00:51] <cmihai> Just a sec.
[14:00:56] <darrenm> depends which LVM you are talking about ;-)
[14:00:57] <delewis> I've seen them before
[14:01:02] <delewis> my old 7025-F40 had one
[14:01:07] <delewis> PowerPC chip onboard
[14:01:11] <delewis> pretty cool :-)
[14:01:21] <darrenm> LVM on Solaris, aka SVM, aka ODS, aka SDS ;-)
[14:01:34] <darrenm> while all the time it was still metainit(1M) :-)
[14:01:37] <delewis> darrenm: yeah, but you can't do it with the *AIX* LVM :-)
[14:01:44] <delewis> and that's probably a good thing
[14:01:51] <delewis> I wouldn't touch a software RAID-5 implementation with a ten-foot pole.
[14:02:04] <dlg> oh cmon
[14:02:05] <cmihai> ZFS? :P
[14:02:13] <dlg> all raid5 is done in software
[14:02:14] <delewis> you really need a hardware RAID solution that has battery backed cache and so fourth, if you plan on using it for production data.
[14:02:19] <delewis> cmihai: that's different :-)
[14:02:21] <dlg> the software is usually running on a hba
[14:02:28] <delewis> ZFS does dynamic striping which eliminates the RAID-5 write hole.
[14:02:38] <dlg> theres no reason good raid5 software cant go into an operating system
[14:02:47] <delewis> dlg: yes, but you have battery backed cache that has the parity update if things go bad.
[14:03:02] <delewis> dlg: plenty of reasons -- read up on the RAID 5 write hole.
[14:03:06] <cmihai> hdisk2  Available Raid  5 40-58-00-0,0 86786 MB Status OPTIMAL
[14:03:15] <zdzichuBG> not stripping is important, ZFS has COW
[14:03:20] <cmihai> scraid0 Available 40-58 PCI 4-Channel Ultra3 SCSI RAID Adapter
[14:03:31] <delewis> cmihai: nice.
[14:03:40] <delewis> mine was just Wide SCSI :-)
[14:03:45] <cmihai> Hehe
[14:03:51] <delewis> of course, it was in a 12-year-old system.
[14:04:00] <cmihai> heh
[14:04:03] <delewis> that was ordered in 1994 with 640MB of memory :-)
[14:04:08] <cmihai> 2300MB RAM
[14:04:12] <cmihai> More like 1999-2000
[14:04:20] <dlg> delewis: i know how it works, but even without a bbu you can still do safe raid5
[14:04:23] <dlg> its just very slow
[14:04:54] <cmihai> RAIDZ2 eliminates the RAID-5 write hole.. right?
[14:04:59] <delewis> cmihai: right
[14:05:08] <delewis> you're not doing an additional seek to update the parity
[14:05:21] <cmihai> *phew* :)
[14:05:26] <delewis> and therefore there's not window for data corruption
[14:05:29] <delewis> no*
[14:05:52] <delewis> cmihai: RaidZ actually eliminates that
[14:05:55] <delewis> no need for double-parity
[14:05:59] <jteo> RAIDZ and RAIDZ2.
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[14:06:58] <cmihai> God, I hate how manpages display on Solaris.
[14:07:27] <quasi> cmihai: you prefer gnu info?
[14:07:41] <cmihai> Fick me no
[14:08:01] <jteo> i tolerate man. barely.
[14:08:02] <cmihai> It's just the termcap or something, they're all  mangled and unreadable.
[14:08:16] <cmihai> Compared to how they show on say OpenBSD.
[14:08:27] <quasi> oh? they look perfectly fine to me
[14:08:49] <lasseoe> long live vt100 :)
[14:09:06] <quasi> lasseoe: always
[14:09:13] <lasseoe> it may not be the most advanced, but it just works
[14:10:12] <dlg> cmihai: env PAGER=less man blah
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[14:28:19] <axisys> how to compress 31G file?
[14:28:37] <Berny> cat file|gzip -c >out.gz ?
[14:29:06] <quasi> cat /dev/null > file for instant compression ;)
[14:29:08] <jamesd> copy it to a  zfs filesystem with compression enabled?
[14:29:27] <axisys> on sol 8
[14:29:47] <axisys> quasi: ha ha
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[14:30:14] <axisys> gzip gives me this: Value too large for defined data type
[14:30:41] <Berny> cat file|gzip -c >out.gz ?
[14:30:42] <kjetilho> axisys: yes, that's why you need the cat trick
[14:31:05] <kjetilho> cat is largefile aware, your gzip isn't
[14:31:23] <axisys> kjetilho: cool..!!
[14:31:28] <axisys> Berny: thnx a lot
[14:34:41] <axisys> jamesd: not that it will apply on my case, but zfs compression is what level og gzip ? -9 ?
[14:34:53] <axisys> s/og/of/
[14:35:06] <lasseoe> zfs compression doesn't reallyhelp much if you need to move the file to another system :)
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[14:35:22] <jamesd> axisys, it does well, but not as good as  gzip, but at least you don't need to uncompress the file before you load it into an ap.
[14:36:26] <jamesd> lasseoe, sure it does, you just export via nfs,  and that app can access any block of the file, unlike with the gzip solution where you move the file and have to gunzip to access any part of it.
[14:37:22] <lasseoe> ok sure, assuming you're only compressing it forbandwidth issues
[14:37:29] <lasseoe> dman spacekey
[14:38:34] <jamesd> of course if you never need to view the contents of the file, perhaps its best just to  use the "rm" compression application.
[14:39:20] <jteo> rm is kinda lossy.
[14:40:28] <kspath> hehehe
[14:41:55] <cmihai> compress :D
[14:41:58] <Cyrille> but has an unmatched ratio ;-)
[14:43:02] <cmihai> split(1) and compress(1) ftw :)
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[14:54:57] <kjetilho> little known fact: you can cat gzip-ed files together with no problem
[14:55:28] <kjetilho> so split + gzip + cat would work, too, if you don't mind doubling the I/O load
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[14:58:11] <cmihai> kjetilho: see Solaris downloads.
[14:58:22] <cmihai> gzipped splitted files
[14:59:28] <kjetilho> ok, perhaps not so little known in these circles :)
[15:02:46] <Berny> bugger
[15:03:16] <Berny> so i have sgd working, i can login as normal user, but not as admin any more :-\
[15:03:22] <cmihai> Cool.
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[15:03:35] <cmihai> Berny: did you use Administrator with the root password?
[15:03:50] <Berny> yeah
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[15:03:56] <Berny> 'invalid credentials'
[15:04:06] <cmihai> Ugh..
[15:04:12] <cmihai> 11/06?
[15:04:19] <Berny> nope
[15:04:30] <cmihai> svn_54?
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[15:04:41] <Berny> nope
[15:04:48] <cmihai> Hehe... 3rd guess must be lucky: 6/06?
[15:04:51] <Berny> 03/05
[15:04:54] <cmihai> Ugh...
[15:04:55] <Berny> :-P
[15:05:14] <Berny> well i set it up to use ldap to find users
[15:05:25] <Berny> so now it finds users
[15:05:27] <cmihai> Well, there's your problem I guess ;)
[15:05:38] <Berny> but no administrator 8-\
[15:05:39] <cmihai> It probably looks for root instead of Adminstrator or something/
[15:06:23] <Berny> root/rootpw gives me a 'normal' user webtop
[15:06:30] <Berny> no management stuff
[15:07:07] <Berny> which is a little annoying
[15:08:22] <lasseoe> at least it's a bit more secure that wya :)
[15:08:25] <lasseoe> way
[15:09:01] <Berny> hmpf
[15:09:26] <cmihai> That in a container?
[15:09:47] <cmihai> Containers + ZFS compression are fun :)
[15:09:58] <cmihai> Guess you can't do that with 3/05 hehe
[15:10:06] <Berny> local zone if you mean that
[15:10:15] <cmihai> Yeah
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[15:11:37] <Berny> hmm, let's fix it with an pkgrm 8-)
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[15:24:34] <tsoome> hm, why there is still fixed list of nss modules for passwd management :(
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[15:25:32] <delewis> cmihai: indeed :-)
[15:25:49] <delewis> zones+snapshots make for a very nice evalulation and testing environment.
[15:26:02] <cmihai> Yup.
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[15:27:03] <delewis> export/oracle/oracle-zone1  1.59G  28.4G  32.6K  /export/oracle/oracle-zone1
[15:27:06] <delewis> export/oracle/oracle-zone1/u01  1.59G  28.4G  1.58G  /u01
[15:27:08] <delewis> export/oracle/oracle-zone1/u01@pre-db  2.62M      -  1.28G  -
[15:27:09] <delewis> :-)
[15:27:12] <delewis> export/zones          3.16G  28.4G  35.3K  /export/zones
[15:27:13] <delewis> export/zones/oracle-zone1  3.16G  28.4G  2.31G  /export/zones/oracle-zone1
[15:27:16] <delewis> export/zones/oracle-zone1@pre-db   868M      -  3.15G  -
[15:27:45] <delewis> the dataset feature is pretty nice with zonecfg, as well.
[15:28:08] <delewis> that, snapshots, and compression made ZFS more practical than VxVM for me.
[15:29:53] <delewis> hmm, question: say, I've got a snapshot (pre-db) and I create another snapshot in the future. Can I rollback to pre-db and expect the future snapshot to be around, so I could roll-forward to it?
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[15:30:51] <Berny> try and report? ;-)
[15:31:10] <jteo> delewis: yes.
[15:31:27] <jteo> (based on my understanding)
[15:35:05] <delewis> jteo: hmm, I'll do a zfs send to another zpool before trying :-)
[15:35:41] <jteo> delewis: this isn't a support channel. ;)
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[15:37:40] * delewis throws stones at jteo
[15:37:48] <jteo> i was wrong? :(
[15:38:11] <delewis> at least I didn't have you eaten by komodo dragons, like gisburn would do.
[15:38:24] <delewis> jteo: haven't tried yet -- I was referring toyour quip about this not being a support channel :-)
[15:38:47] <jteo> delewis: if you're looking for support on IRC, then I pray for you.
[15:38:48] <jteo> :)
[15:39:11] <delewis> jteo: are you saying #linux cannot be an answer to all my hopes and prayers?
[15:39:26] * delewis shudders
[15:40:01] <jteo> bs. linux rules. zealots rule.
[15:40:38] * delewis finds gisburn and his drags
[15:40:41] <delewis> dragons, rather.
[15:41:35] <lasseoe> hah.. his drags
[15:41:47] <delewis> yeah, no comment. :-)
[15:41:56] <lasseoe> :-)
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[16:24:01] <elektronkind> can someone tell me the meaning of the /* ARGSUSED */ comment in many device driver source files?
[16:24:20] <kjetilho> it's to stop lint from complaining about the unused arguments
[16:24:33] <elektronkind> ah, it's a lint thing. cool.
[16:25:46] <ofu> are thumper-disks not hot-swappable?
[16:26:21] <cmihai> They are hot-swap
[16:26:30] <cmihai> See the presentation.
[16:26:33] <kjetilho> but it's hard to get access when it is rack mounted
[16:26:42] <cmihai> Not really, it's on rails.
[16:26:45] <ofu> i pulled a disk and it is c7t1d0  UNAVAIL      0    46     0  cannot open right now
[16:26:46] <cmihai> You just pull it out.
[16:26:52] <kjetilho> well, would you pull it out while live?
[16:27:09] <ofu> and fmd does 100% CPU
[16:27:10] <cmihai> You're supposed to wait for the ... blue? light
[16:27:12] <kjetilho> I really want my disk heads to be parked when it's moved
[16:27:22] <kjetilho> aha!  I missed that feature
[16:27:42] <cmihai> Ugh... read the docs, there's some stuff about removeing the disks.
[16:27:52] <cmihai> I mean, after all, they are SATA so the hot-swap is some form of hack.
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[16:30:05] <cmihai> Well, I'm off home. Bye.
[16:32:09] <jteo> cmihai: tata
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[16:42:11] <ofu> should i have unconfigured with cfgadm -c unconfigure first?
[16:42:36] <AbeFroman> yes
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[17:09:51] <sol_user> Hi!
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[17:10:40] <axisys> what is the best way to transfer about 20G data over the netwrok from denver to chicago? ftp?
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[17:11:26] <trygvis> tar cf - foo/ | ssh newhost | tar xf -
[17:11:32] <mrdeviant> it depends on what your transport requiremenst are
[17:11:43] <hile_> morning mrdeviant
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[17:12:09] <mrdeviant> hi hile_
[17:12:18] <jteo> fedex full of dvds.
[17:12:41] <richlowe> with only 20G, I think you'd lose.
[17:12:55] <mrdeviant> if you do use ssh, you may want to consider using the arcfour or blowfish ciphers, since they're considerably faster than the others.
[17:13:15] <trygvis> that is if you have a CPU problem ..
[17:13:22] <jteo> richlowe: depends on how fast his network is. :)
[17:13:28] <richlowe> trygvis: easy to solve.
[17:13:33] <richlowe> trygvis: use rsync and guarantee he will ;)
[17:13:38] <mrdeviant> for that amount of data, i'm sure encryption will add a rather significant overhead
[17:14:03] <trygvis> not if you have anything less that 10Mb/s
[17:16:10] <axisys> so ssh w/ blowfish will be good enough compare to ftp? i think atleast 10M pipe is what i have if not larger
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[17:17:43] <axisys> btw where i can get the SUNWscsd pkg from for Sol 9?
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[17:22:31] <richlowe> stevel: mornin'
[17:22:39] <stevel> morning rich
[17:22:46] <richlowe> stevel: kick the bridge? :)
[17:22:57] <jteo> wb stevel.
[17:23:15] <stevel> ick. yeah, looks like the bridge is hung
[17:23:18] <stevel> i'll poke at it
[17:23:21] <stevel> morning jteo
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[17:37:10] <stevel> oops
[17:37:13] <stevel> sorry onbot :(
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[17:37:35] <onbot> commit by zh199473:  6485555 bge NVRAM corruption is still possible
[17:37:35] <onbot> commit by Shawn Emery:  6266812 pam_krb5 and pam_krb5_migrate localize their syslog messages; 6430941 pam_krb5 pam_sm_setcred can cause /tmp/krb5cc_<PAM_USER> to be owned by euid rather than PAM_USER; 6484675 pam_krb5(5) needs some cleanup; 6499804 pam_krb5 account management should not return success if user is not defined in kerberos realm
[17:37:40] <onbot> commit by yl150051:  6471718 Polling capability corrupt IP header check before ip_input(); 6501903 xge panics on recieving a packet
[17:38:05] <onbot> commit by Eric Cheng:  6498943 auditing doesn't work if dladm is run as a non-root user; 6503946 live upgrade does not handle relocation of aggregation.conf file
[17:39:51] <stevel> richlowe: okay, /onnv/onnv-gate should be up to date now
[17:40:04] <onbot> commit by daemon@tonic-gate:  Added tag onnv_56 for changeset ab4978cfc014b6a3cd2727d76953f29b64144518
[17:40:25] <stevel> goddamn it.  i think jurassic just went down
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[17:40:43] <andyshack> evening folks.
[17:40:53] <stevel> oh well. coffee break time
[17:41:00] <andyshack> im haveing a problem with the sisks menu in the zmc on solaris 10.
[17:41:07] <andyshack> disks menu even
[17:41:57] <andyshack> if i click on c0d0 (which is the only disk and the boot disk) im informed by the smc that this disk does not contain a soalaris fdsk partition.
[17:42:16] <jteo> stevel: your fault?
[17:42:17] <andyshack> oh um.. if i procede any data will be niked
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[18:14:32] <axisys> looks like I got no luck w/ smartmontools http://rafb.net/p/65VoQE45.html
[18:14:51] <axisys> i am running it on a ultra 20
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[18:16:59] <jamesd> axisys, did you grab the smarttools from blastwave, i know they work on sparc at least.
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[18:17:28] <axisys> jamesd: yep.. pkg-get install smartmontools is how i installed it
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[18:18:33] <axisys> jamesd: i am guessing i have a AT version 1 disk http://rafb.net/p/KR6uC797.html
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[18:18:55] <jamesd> axisys, inside a  u20? that doesn't seem likely.
[18:19:16] <axisys> jamesd: inside u20 yes.. per smartmontools i have ata ver 1
[18:19:47] <bougie> hello :)
[18:19:54] <jamesd> #######################################################################
[18:19:54] <jamesd> ATA command routine ata_command_interface() NOT IMPLEMENTED under Solaris.
[18:19:54] <jamesd> Please contact smartmontools-support at lists dot sourceforge.net if
[18:19:54] <jamesd> you want to help in porting smartmontools to Solaris.
[18:20:16] <jamesd> ^^^ seems the more likely canidate for failure of the disk...
[18:20:23] <jamesd> er disk scan.
[18:20:50] <axisys> jamesd: what u suggest i do .. email them?
[18:21:18] <jamesd> yes or boot,  knoppix and install smarttools if its not on the disk...
[18:21:25] <jamesd> and then scan your drives.
[18:21:35] <onbot> commit by Doug McCallum:  6493258 sharemgr: *sharectl* usage is confusing; 6494273 sharemgr: sharectl unable to set/get properties commented out from /etc/default/nfs; 6494277 sharemgr: *sharectl* returns 0 when setting/getting invalid property; 6497688 sharemgr: *sharectl* fails to set some of nfs properties
[18:22:32] <axisys> jamesd: i will email them and boot w/ knoppix as well.. thnx
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[18:28:28] <andyshack> http://www.rossauction.com.au/htdocs/auctions/2007/01/13/13012007C/gen/5.jpg can anyone tell me what that white thing is ? some sort of tape stack ?
[18:29:32] <noyb> cool!  commits announced by onbot!  (I remember asking for a feature like that a long time ago.)
[18:29:46] <noyb> whomever did that.  very nice work.  thanks
[18:30:31] * stevel points at movement
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[18:44:52] <whaq> I'm running nv52 and would like to update samba to the latest stable version (3.0.23something). How do I do that?
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[18:45:54] <whaq> 3.0.23d
[18:46:42] <jamesd> the latest and greatest or anything on solaris usuaully requires that you build it your self and install it
[18:48:48] <whaq> Is there an automated package creator for solaris?
[18:49:31] <jamesd> not that i know of.
[18:49:49] <whaq> Alright, thanks jamesd.
[18:50:43] <_syphilis_> whaq: automated how?
[18:50:58] <aliquis> cool
[18:51:01] <whaq> I was thinking of Debian's apt
[18:51:03] <aliquis> iphone runs os x =P
[18:51:15] <_syphilis_> well, there's pkg-get
[18:51:46] <whaq> _syphilis_: it has a function to download the source and rebuild the source locally... which you can substitute a newer source package to be repackaged, so to speak.
[18:51:53] <jamesd>  blastwave has a clone of apt-get, but its limited and its not automated, there are a lot of smart people building packages but usually they are a bit behind the bleeding edge.
[18:52:51] <whaq> _syphilis_: i don't suppose there's a simple way for me to update samba to the latest (or later than 3.0.21b) in a simple\easy way? I just need a single feature msdfs in /homes which isn't available..
[18:53:04] <whaq> Ok.
[18:53:26] <_syphilis_> whaq: on S10: unlikely.  (software isn't normally upgraded after release).  on SX: wait for a newer version to be integrated :)
[18:53:37] <whaq> I'm not sure if it's bleeding edge.. Any stable version of samba after july 06 has this feature that I seek.
[18:54:02] <whaq> _syphilis_: ah, there's hope :> I shall wait then.
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[19:04:04] <onbot> commit by pd144616:  6488665 Invalid argument cause Abort (core dumped).
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[19:08:04] <fl> hi there
[19:11:02] <delewis> jteo: *ping*
[19:11:11] <delewis> doesn't look like you can rollback to a previous snapshot if future ones exists.
[19:11:18] <delewis> not with S10u3, anyway.
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[19:11:44] <delewis> fortunately, I have some spare disks to create a 'temp' storage pool, that I can do a zfs send/recv to.
[19:12:16] <Fish> hello
[19:12:35] <delewis> that way, I can rollback, and then "roll forward" by doing a zfs send/recv to the real pool from the 'temp' pool.
[19:23:29] <fl> could someone please recommend a sensible disk space requirement for Solaris 10 on amd64, or point to a FAQ list? I seem to be unable to find something
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[19:24:31] <Starless_> more is better; I think the full install requires 3-4 gigs?
[19:25:04] <Starless_> I'd say 6 gigs is the absolute minimum; I could be wrong
[19:25:57] <fl> Starless: does Solaris have some kind of volume manager?
[19:26:00] <fl> like:
[19:26:16] <jamesd> fl, yes ZFS does all that and more
[19:26:30] <fl> I partition my HD now (it's a laptop) and then I could add another partition later if I need more space?
[19:26:35] <richlowe> and of course there's SVM
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[19:26:49] <fl> SVM?
[19:27:00] <jamesd> sun volume manger
[19:27:17] <fl> ok
[19:27:28] <fl> does it come up during install?
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[19:28:20] <jamesd> fl, no, you install solairs, if you want to mirror /  and others you do that after wards,  zfs is likewise configured later as it does not support   zfs on /  yet.
[19:29:23] <fl> so, having a "small" root partition and then configure other mounts with more space later.
[19:29:29] <fl> sounds like a plan :-)
[19:29:48] <Stric> jamesd: unless you jumpstart, then you can mirror at install
[19:29:57] <jamesd> root should be  between  5-20GB  leave the rest of the space for zfs
[19:30:27] <jamesd> Stric, if he has to ask if solaris has lvm... he is obviously not interested in jumpstart at the moment.
[19:30:29] <fl> jamesd, you are sooo exclusive :-) I have to leave space for more than just Solaris...
[19:30:51] <hile_> ugh multiboot
[19:30:51] <Stric> jamesd: quite possible ;)
[19:30:57] <whaq> iPhone is looking like a smartphone\notebook\tabletpc killer :>
[19:30:58] <fl> and no thx, I think I'll not use jumpstart, but just install manually from the DVD
[19:31:11] <jamesd> dual booting is annoying....   if you want multiple OSes on your box, use  vmware or maybe xen.
[19:31:13] <jbl^> use freebsd on the other partition
[19:31:13] <jbl^> ;-)
[19:31:21] <pikapika> hello
[19:31:35] <jamesd> hi
[19:31:48] <_william_> hi jamesd
[19:31:53] <fl> james: that's what I do now... amd sometimes VMWare just gloriously messes up my "raw" partitions.
[19:31:56] <jamesd> hi _william_
[19:32:03] <fl> sigh. such is live.
[19:32:37] <fl> but if I don't have on a raw one, I can't natively boot the thing. Always those choices.
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[19:33:10] * jamesd oops sorry i have to reboot  this phone number/data/application  is on my  other OS, let me reboot and I will be back,   please repeat this in 5 minutes when something else comes up....  yeah dual booting is the right solution.
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[19:33:31] <fl> ok, I'll go with a 10G part as / first. Thank you for the suggesstions, folks.
[19:33:37] <fl> bye
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[19:34:13] <_syphilis_> hmm, for some reason the selected option inthe v40z bios appears as white-on-white here
[19:34:24] <_syphilis_> i wonder if it's using 'default fg colour' instead of black
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[19:41:41] <delewis> hmm, it wasn't a good idea to send a future snapshot to the 'temp' pool and rollback to an old one
[19:42:05] <delewis> there doesn't seem to be a way to send the new snapshot back from the 'temp' pool to the real one without losing the older snapshot.
[19:44:50] <delewis> bugger.
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[20:21:42] * sahafeez reaching for my CC to get an iphone ;)
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[20:24:01] <Error_404> seriously? that thing's ugly and clunky looking
[20:24:14] <Stric> and Linksys/Cisco already owns the name ;)
[20:25:02] <dwc-> ah, the apple fanboys are having their collective orgasms
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[20:25:18] <sahafeez> Stric: apple signed the paperwork last night to get the name from Cisco
[20:25:32] <dwc-> I sure hope cisco made 'em pay big for it :)
[20:25:37] <Stric> ;)
[20:25:38] <jamesd> http://codinghub.com/iphone.html
[20:25:52] <sahafeez> hum. well aapl is up $6 last time i looked.
[20:26:28] <cap_> well if they can manage an UI that is as good as the ipod-nano one then who knows =)
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[20:27:01] <sahafeez> iPhone shuffle -- just hit a button and it calls one of your friends at random!
[20:27:18] <cap_> but not really random, people find patterns...
[20:27:19] <cap_> ;-)
[20:27:25] <Error_404> lame... pass
[20:27:54] <sahafeez> it runs a full version of OS X. that is really cool. sorry if you do not think so.
[20:28:09] <zdzichuBG> it's got multipoint touch screen
[20:28:09] <Stric> sorry if I don't think it's a full version of OS X
[20:28:14] <AbeFroman> when is apple going to drop that crap mach kernel
[20:28:36] <sahafeez> hum, well the rumor mill is that they are going to drop mach in favor of solaris
[20:29:00] <Error_404> AbeFroman: schwartz offered SunOS5 a while back
[20:29:03] <dwc-> they should just run ksh93
[20:29:06] <zdzichuBG> sahafeez: after buying Sun Microsystems ;)
[20:29:39] <sahafeez> the $6 extra a share that they have gone up in the last 2 hours should be enough
[20:29:40] <Error_404> sahafeez: rumour mill is wrong, sun already offered to pay for it & apple didn't respond
[20:29:58] <sahafeez> Error_404: inside info or
[20:30:10] <Error_404> it was on his blog like, a year ago
[20:30:16] <Error_404> schwartz' i mean
[20:30:20] * dwc- gets bored with the apple talk and wanders off
[20:30:43] <zdzichuBG> time for some java coding
[20:31:11] <sahafeez> hum, if apple did a deal with sun then they would never say so public until it was done and schwartz would have to keep it mum
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[20:31:29] * jamesd thinks its time for some java with creamer and sugar
[20:31:47] <Error_404> and schwartz would have a responsibility to his shareholders to announce the deal
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[20:32:13] <Error_404> so unless SUNW ceases to exist, or apple buys Sun Micro, it's not going to happen
[20:32:15] <sahafeez> ah, no. apple would never sign a deal that they could not keep on the qt
[20:32:50] <jamesd> Error_404, why not?   opensolaris is CDDL, they could use the solaris kernel
[20:32:57] <Error_404> jamesd: true enough
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[20:38:38] <sahafeez> aqua on solaris with zfs et. al on mac hardware. ah, a dream system
[20:39:28] <Error_404> yes, why not pay twice as much for hardware
[20:39:35] <jamesd> well they have zfs and dtrace,   they just need to port the rest of the kernel ;-p
[20:39:42] <Error_404> because it's cool when you shell out too much money for something
[20:39:51] <sahafeez> bah. not going there. the hardware thing has been done too death and it is just not true.
[20:40:12] <Error_404> fanboys are cute...
[20:40:19] <Error_404> i'm going to get coffee... brb
[20:40:58] <sahafeez> never understood why i am a "fanboys" because i like their design. silly way to think if you ask me.
[20:43:31] <lasseoe> Going on and on and on about is just sad
[20:43:54] <lasseoe> belongs on /.
[20:46:28] <sahafeez> heck i did the same thing about the thumper and zfs. it is just cool and very well done. i am a tech geek.
[20:47:47] <gdamore> hi *
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[20:48:56] <_syphilis_> bge0:1: flags=2100840<RUNNING,MULTICAST,ROUTER,IPv6> mtu 1500 index 2
[20:48:58] <gdamore> so, i _finally_ got an SCA signed and submitted, so I can start contributing some Tadpole stuff
[20:48:59] <_syphilis_> how do i bring this interface up?
[20:49:14] <sahafeez> ifconifg
[20:49:16] <gdamore> (ifconfig bge0 <ipaddress> up
[20:49:22] <sahafeez> ifconfig
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[20:49:30] <_syphilis_> it has an IP already, but ifconfig bge0 inet6 up doesn't seem to work
[20:49:31] <Odin-LAP> Error_404: You know, most of the people here would qualify as "Sun fanboys" in many circles, for no reason other than liking Solaris.
[20:49:40] <_syphilis_> neither 'ifconfig bge0 up'
[20:49:41] <postwait> can you export ZFS volumes as iSCSI targets in Sol10u3?
[20:49:49] <postwait> Or doI need a newish OpenSolaris?
[20:49:54] <_syphilis_> (bge0 is already up, only bge0:1 isn't)
[20:49:57] <gdamore> you need to provide an IP address or hostname.
[20:50:00] <gdamore> ifconfig bge0:1 then
[20:50:07] <lasseoe> postwait: You'd need SXCR b54
[20:50:09] <_syphilis_> ifconfig: setifflags: SIOCGLIFFLAGS: bge0:1: no such interface
[20:50:11] <jamesd> gdamore, cool maybe you can  submit some of tadpole's more advance stuff and really  make solaris hop  just like a frog ;-p
[20:50:23] <tsoome> postwait: snv_b54
[20:50:29] <gdamore> ifconfig bge0:1 plumb ?  (or look at addif in the ifconfig man page)
[20:50:30] <dwc-> Odin-LAP: you can like something without being fanboyishly obsessed with it
[20:50:31] <zdzichuBG> postwait: there are some iscsi packages on opensolaris.org
[20:50:58] <gdamore> jamesd: there will be some cool stuff.  fwiw, the cardbus stack in solaris has large portions that are derived from tadpole's work.
[20:51:05] <Odin-LAP> dwc-: Precisely my point. ;)
[20:51:10] <_syphilis_> okay, i removed the IP and did 'addif .../64 up', that seemed to work
[20:51:14] <dwc-> sahafeez and jamesd are much more fanboyish about solaris and sun than say, gdamore
[20:51:34] <gdamore> dwc-: are you sure about that? :-)
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[20:52:29] <sahafeez> hum, well i have heard the same thing that comes out of people mouths about buy apple hardware as when i bought millions of $$ of sun hardware. oh, sun is to $$ for the same thing as you can build yourself or get a dell. the irony is not lost on me.
[20:52:42] <postwait> Is there a limit to the number of clients that can initiate to a single iSCSI target?
[20:53:20] <gdamore> a lot of sun hardware is historically overpriced.  but they have really come down on the platform prices lately -- the stuff is really competitive now.
[20:53:25] <Odin-LAP> sahafeez: Sun is the Apple of "enterprise computing"? :>
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[20:53:47] <gdamore> if only the darned peripherals and upgrades weren't so expensive.  spending $700 for a 10/100 nic is just insane.
[20:53:50] <Odin-LAP> (Or, going in the other direction, Apple is the Sun of "consumer computing"?)
[20:53:55] <sahafeez> yes which is very much the same of apple but they have not been able to kick the label.
[20:54:05] <_syphilis_> hmm, ifconfig(1M) claims bge0:1 should be a valid interface name, but the command itself seems to disagree
[20:54:56] <gdamore> generally, for Solaris, you have to plumb an interface with IP or IPv6 before you can do other stuff with it
[20:54:57] <dwc-> apple is more competitive than it has been in the past, but apple's computer *is* still more expensive
[20:55:14] <dwc-> but so's sun's
[20:55:21] <_syphilis_> gda: the interface is plumbed and has an address.  now it's even up, but bge0:1 still gives 'no such interface'
[20:55:23] <lasseoe> dwc: yes but not a lot more expensive
[20:55:24] <gdamore> the last i checked, apple was still quite highly priced, no longer insanely priced, but still quite high
[20:55:44] <dwc-> lasseoe: by percentage, or by raw $$?
[20:55:45] <gdamore> by comparision, the ultra 20 series is very competitively priced.
[20:55:59] <lasseoe> dwc: raw $ compared to an equally specced brand name laptop
[20:56:10] <Odin-LAP> gdamore: They're highly comparable to the high end of the spectrum.
[20:56:13] <gdamore> same for the rackmount 1U servers
[20:56:14] <dwc-> you can figure on a hundred or so, instead of $300+ like before
[20:56:20] <tsoome> ah, in europe, everything is overpriced
[20:56:21] <dwc-> but that's cuz the compute'rs not $2200 anymore
[20:56:38] <cap_> tsoome, hehe, very true
[20:56:50] <Odin-LAP> tsoome: On the contrary. Most everything is underpriced in the U.S.. Including wages. ;)
[20:56:55] <jamesd> now if apple can just repeat what it did with the apple ][ family with  iphone or ipod...  having a device that sells for 25 years with no major upgrades and enhancements over the entire period.
[20:57:22] <Odin-LAP> jamesd: That wouldn't make any economic sense! ;p
[20:57:25] <gdamore> heh.  the market has changed a bit since the early 80's. :-)  i doubt they could get away with it
[20:57:29] <tsoome> here I can get macbook for a price of macbook pro in us....
[20:57:43] <dwc-> lasseoe: it isn't though...
[20:57:50] <sahafeez> Taxes, recycle fees, etc in the EU
[20:57:53] <dwc-> 15" 2.16ghz macbook pro is $2k
[20:58:12] <dwc-> it doesn't come out even unless you buy lots of 3rd party peripherals to "make up" for every single port and feature
[20:58:19] <gdamore> wow, that's pretty pricey.  for not much more you could get a sparc based system.
[20:58:28] <jamesd> Odin-LAP, why not?   the people that make washing machines and sell  ground beef have done it.....  computers and devices are commodities.
[20:58:47] <lasseoe> gdamore: you could also get a 2nd hand car, but that's not quite what one wants .)
[20:58:48] <lasseoe> :)
[20:58:52] <gdamore> a better comparision is the auto industry, i think.
[20:58:57] <zdzichuBG> tsoome: yeah, .eu prices are insane. that's why I bought laptop in US
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[20:59:35] <tsoome> I bought my ipod from tokyo:D
[20:59:35] <Auralis> if there is osx running on that thing, i wonder if i can get a terminal onit, and a usb/serial adaptor to use it as serial terminal for a SF25k :)
[20:59:35] <lasseoe> either way, I can't see that it matters, people buy what makes them happy
[20:59:54] <lasseoe> I'm far happier with my Powerbook than I've ever been with any other laptop
[21:00:07] <gdamore> probably, but why do you want a serial terminal, doesn't the SF25k have a service processor with it?
[21:00:24] <jbk> two
[21:00:37] <PerterB> Auralis: weirdly, OS X doesn't ship with a copy of tip... (but you can download binaries from somewhere)
[21:00:38] <jbk> and the consoles of each are connected to each other
[21:00:47] <jbk> and can be accessed via smsconnectsc
[21:00:53] <Odin-LAP> jamesd: Yes. The people that make washing machines also realised some time ago that it's not good business to make something that'll last the buyer a lifetime; recent washing machines have shorter lifespans. Ground beef, on the other hand, is in an entirely different category of good; it is actually consumed.
[21:01:03] <Auralis> gdamore: who cares, it would be neet to use that thing as serial in case i have to
[21:01:18] <gdamore> that sounds about right.  i didn't do much on the 15k -- i went from the 10k to doing crypto driver work on lower end systems
[21:01:55] <gdamore> the lack of a serial port is still my biggest complaint with the Ultra 20.  makes it a PITA for doing embedded work
[21:02:18] <lasseoe> gdamore: USB-2-Serial ?
[21:02:21] <jbk> i like our 25ks so far..
[21:02:30] <gdamore> i need to look at the latest commits to asy.c.   i still have a backburnered project to do a common serial driver framework for solaris.
[21:02:48] <jamesd> gdamore, http://unixconsult.org/u20/hacks.php
[21:02:51] <gdamore> lasseoe: most of the usb2serial adapters i can find aren't supported.  annoying.
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[21:03:05] <lasseoe> gdamore: ah crap.. tried KeySpan ?
[21:03:05] <jbk> though dunno how much longer i'll get to work on them :) 5,000 layoffs announced today (and I'm out on vacation)
[21:03:24] <sahafeez> 5000 layoffs at sun?
[21:03:29] <jbk> no, don't work for sun
[21:04:26] <jbk> i work at a communicaitons company who shall remain nameless :)
[21:04:37] <jbk> though not to difficult to figure out
[21:05:17] <lasseoe> Cingular by any chance? :-)
[21:05:20] * gdamore is still waiting for a Sun recruiter to call up and offer him a $200k technical director position
[21:05:27] <jbk> nope
[21:05:28] * gdamore wakes up from his day dreaming
[21:05:31] <lasseoe> hm ok
[21:05:41] <jbk> i don't think any of our competitors have accounced layoffs
[21:05:59] * jamesd would settle for a  $45,000 year job at sun taking out the trash for  brian C. and  brendan G.
[21:06:14] <tsoome> :D
[21:06:24] <gdamore> heh.
[21:06:27] <richlowe> $45k seems a little high for a janitor.
[21:06:40] <gdamore> i actually _quit_ a Sun job about 4 years ago.
[21:06:53] <jamesd> fine i will install solaris and be a sysadmin as well.. and still do it for 45k a year.
[21:07:03] <sahafeez> 45k would not pay my house payments.
[21:07:09] <dwc-> sprint nextel
[21:07:12] <sahafeez> but i am in socal so..
[21:07:26] <gdamore> yeah, i know that feeling.   45k would cover the mortgage.  but only just.
[21:07:33] <tsoome> sahafeez: your house is clearly too big
[21:07:43] <tsoome> ;)
[21:07:50] <sahafeez> 1200 sq ft, 1.5 bath 3br so no
[21:08:00] <jbk> ding!
[21:08:03] <jamesd> tsoome, have you seen the prices for houses in cali?
[21:08:04] <jbk> dwc gets a cookie
[21:08:07] <gdamore> where do you live, downtown la jolla?
[21:08:12] <sahafeez> santee
[21:08:20] <tsoome> heh, my parachute is 150sqf:D
[21:08:41] <tsoome> jamesd: nope:D
[21:08:42] <jbk> so i really picked a time to be out of office :)
[21:08:55] <sahafeez> tossome: i jump a zerop 170 (i am 210lbs)
[21:08:55] <gdamore> wow, you're closer than i realized. i'm located up the 15 near murrieta
[21:09:25] <jamesd> one sun former sun employee i know just bought a 3 bdrm,  2k sqft house in no. cali for over a million, and it still looks like a crackerbox house.
[21:09:35] <tsoome> sahafeez: hee, stiletto 150 here;)
[21:10:11] <gdamore> cali home prices are insane.  i moved an hour from any reasonable tech job, and telecommute, just so i can afford a house big enough for my family.  (4 br, 3bath)
[21:10:49] <sahafeez> well looked up there. did not like the drive down the 15.
[21:11:12] <jbk> could always move to the midwest :)
[21:11:49] * jbk dodges the incoming produce
[21:11:54] * jamesd lives in the midwest
[21:12:43] <jamesd> collects all the produce.. its damm expensive here in the winter time.
[21:13:21] <jbk> housing is cheap, but where i live, it's a bit of a technological wasteland
[21:13:47] <sahafeez> tsoome, PD SPECTRE 170 7 cell
[21:13:55] <tsoome> cool:)
[21:14:08] <tsoome> my very first one is the same
[21:14:11] <sahafeez> were are you jumping?
[21:14:21] <jamesd> yeap same here... they all run windoze and are happy about needing  8 times the number of servers to do the job a unix could do.
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[21:14:44] <tsoome> nice small dropzone of our own.
[21:14:51] <sahafeez> jamesd, well now they can get the new ms home server that billg talked about ;)
[21:14:53] <jbk> well it's more, there's one big tech company in town (sprint), and not much else
[21:15:02] <sahafeez> you are in KC?
[21:15:15] <jbk> you have a few smaller ones (hr & block, dst, and hallmark), but that's azbout it
[21:15:18] <jbk> yeah
[21:15:27] <jamesd> sahafeez, yeah...  or i could just repackage a server with dual 400GB drives in a mirror with solaris + zfs
[21:15:37] <jamesd> i'm in milwaukee, wi
[21:15:46] <sahafeez> my buddy neil worked for them there back in the day. when they were building an isp
[21:16:10] <gdamore> i live out here away from tech, but the rest of my engineering team is located in Cambridge UK.  makes it challenging sometimes
[21:16:11] <jbk> heh.. i'm sure we could share stories of 'interesting' mgmt decisions :)
[21:16:31] <jbk> sahafeez: you mean e|solutions?
[21:16:42] <sahafeez> hum. dont know. let me ask
[21:17:05] <jbk> a few years ago, they decied to get into webhosting when exodus, etc. were all going bankrupt
[21:17:19] <jbk> and _shock_ it didn't do too well :)
[21:17:41] <sahafeez> this this was in 1996 i guess. we started working together @ telocity in 97
[21:17:56] <jbk> ahh hmm.. i didn't start here until 99
[21:17:58] <dwc-> hmm... I remember telocity
[21:18:04] <sahafeez> NeilD
[21:18:05] <sahafeez> MSN
[21:18:06] <sahafeez> 12:17
[21:18:08] <sahafeez> Long Distance Enhanced Messaging somethingorother
[21:18:43] <jbk> oh well.. if i get cut, i get cut..
[21:18:56] <dwc-> I remember northpoint went south with my gf at the time's money
[21:18:58] <sahafeez> tsoome - where do you jump?
[21:19:08] <tsoome> in estonia
[21:19:21] <tsoome> and around
[21:19:54] <kAv_> is it snowy in ee or not yet?
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[21:20:05] <tsoome> not yet
[21:20:08] <Sporq> is it possible for multiple hosts to share a san presented lun in rw mode?
[21:20:09] <tsoome> rain only
[21:20:51] <quasi> Sporq: with veritas or qfs possibly
[21:20:52] <jamesd> Sporq, that would most likely depend on the filesystem that you put on top of it being  multisystem aware.
[21:20:53] <jbk> Sporq: yes, but you'll probably want to implement some sort of i/o fencing
[21:21:01] <Error_404> I, otoh, couldn't get my car out of the middle of the building parking lot today
[21:21:20] <tsoome> sahafeez: last summer I got also to lv, lt and russia
[21:21:20] <jbk> and yes, depends on if you have a filesystem on it or not (and if that filesystem supports it)
[21:21:21] <Sporq> jamesd- probably just ufs or zfs.
[21:21:26] <Sporq> jbk- fencing you say?
[21:21:30] <jamesd> Sporq, then no.
[21:21:31] <Error_404> i got it out of my spot, which is cool, but soon it will be a metal-cored ice hill
[21:21:56] <sahafeez> cool. never jumped outside the states, less you count millitary in iraq
[21:22:11] <jamesd> Sporq, zfs and ufs expect to own the filesystem, if someone goes writing over its data it will be none too happy.
[21:22:40] <tsoome> mil? hm thats rough...
[21:22:47] <Sporq> so it would require something special on the san side and/or something like that product that veritas sells
[21:23:05] <jbk> i think sun sells some filesystems that also support it
[21:23:10] <sahafeez> tsoome: halo school was fun. jumped from 30k.
[21:23:13] <jbk> if you don't want to go down the veritas route
[21:23:18] <jamesd> Sporq, yes something that is cluster aware.
[21:23:25] <Sporq> hrmm.
[21:23:35] <jbk> though clustered vxfs (not to be confused with running regular vxfs under a cluster) can do that
[21:24:13] <Sporq> we've got 3 490's that are all being used for compute cycles and it would be nice to give them all access to the same luns on the san without having an nfs intermediary.
[21:24:22] <sahafeez> http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/8558/punitionis8.jpg
[21:24:35] <tsoome> I see:) I have been only on 15k:)
[21:24:56] <tsoome> pure sport;)
[21:25:15] <sahafeez> tsoome - it is cold. and you need O2 but it a great ride. 30k to 2k for deploy.
[21:25:32] <tsoome> yeah, I know:)
[21:26:56] <kAv_> fn~Sporq : have mutliwriter capabilities in zfs would just be too good so early in tis life time
[21:27:51] <kAv_> look into qfs/sam-fs stuff
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[21:28:44] <tsoome> sahafeez: so you must have quite some jumps:)
[21:29:19] <sahafeez> 3k mil, 2k civ
[21:29:55] <tsoome> thats definitely some:) I'm *very* rookie compared to you:)
[21:30:01] <sahafeez> have not jumped in 3 years now. had a kid and cannot get life insurance if i jump. miss it.
[21:30:43] <kAv_> that is a but odd
[21:30:58] <kAv_> why not are they supposing it is unsafe?
[21:31:14] <Error_404> kAv_: it's jumping out of an airplane with a sheet to protect you
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[21:31:47] <Error_404> whether or not it's actually unsafe is irrelevant
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[21:32:00] <tsoome> they just don't have any idea
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[21:32:49] <Error_404> yeah, i dunno
[21:32:54] <sahafeez> something like that. you have to sign a think saying you do not skydive, sucba, etc..play football (american), a whle list of things. i play rugby. i went to my lawyer and asked, is this covered in the list. he said, no but after you get killed, they will pay your wife and add rugby to the list.
[21:33:13] <zdzichuBG> sahafeez: :)
[21:33:14] <Error_404> IIRC some of the guys @ my flying club were complaining about glider pilots paying more for insurance
[21:33:17] <sahafeez> s/whle/whole
[21:33:21] <tsoome> driving a car is actually more dangerous:)
[21:33:38] <sahafeez> yes it is. driving to the DZ is less safe then the jump
[21:33:39] <Error_404> tsoome: flying is totally safe, so's jumping
[21:33:52] <tsoome> not totally, but pretty safe
[21:34:05] <tsoome> provided you have brains:)
[21:34:12] <tsoome> and luck of course
[21:34:22] <Stric> if people had brains in traffic, it would be safer too
[21:34:28] <sahafeez> i have had 3 cut aways in 5k jumps
[21:34:59] <tsoome> my count is 0 so far.
[21:35:09] <tsoome> but I have only 270 jumps:)
[21:35:23] <sahafeez> it will happend
[21:35:32] <Error_404> I don't even carry a parachute when I fly
[21:35:42] <Error_404> I don't go high enough that it'd do me any good
[21:36:17] <Error_404> may as well go down in a ball of flaming (somehow...)  glass & aluminum
[21:36:47] <tsoome> yes I know:)
[21:37:25] <Stric> I have 0 in 0.. SIGFPE?
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[21:38:54] <sahafeez> Error_404 is this private flying or?
[21:39:21] <Error_404> yes, private gliding
[21:39:50] <Error_404> did it with the military until i was old enough to actually have to be in the military & fight
[21:39:52] <sahafeez> always wanted to do that
[21:39:57] <tsoome> gliders are quite dangerous for us.... deadly silent...
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[21:42:29] <Error_404> that's why you have right-of-way
[21:43:57] <sahafeez> seems that apple released a new airport extreme to but did not talk about it in the keynote.
[21:44:48] <Error_404> it's Xtreme!
[21:45:06] <Error_404> over half as many ports as the competition, FOR ONLY $100 MORE!
[21:45:48] <sahafeez> haha. like that. i have to say, i did a wireless startup. put 10k basestations all over so-cal. the airport is the best home router ap.
[21:46:50] <Error_404> it must be the best, it costs the most
[21:48:02] <sahafeez> ah, not. but it is the simplest to setup, manage and get wap working on. that is what you pay for. your mother could do it.
[21:48:55] <sommerfeld> i think you mean wep
[21:49:02] <sahafeez> wpa
[21:49:05] <sahafeez> sorry
[21:49:08] <tsoome> a friend of mine threw away linksys like crap and replaced it with decent airport
[21:49:12] <sahafeez> lesdyslic
[21:49:21] <AbeFroman> i like buffalo
[21:49:38] <AbeFroman> although nothing beats a straight ap + openbsd router
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[21:49:44] <sahafeez> so do i. medium rare. grilled
[21:49:50] <AbeFroman> heh
[21:50:14] <sahafeez> AbeForman: i have that at home. a 802.11b card in an SBUS pcmica adapter on a SS5
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[22:15:01] <kFuQ> is there a ipv6 "set address" flag in zonecfg?
[22:15:12] <sniffy> Just set it :)
[22:15:34] <sahafeez> fyi, just got an email from a freind at apple. the iphone has an terminal and runs ssh.
[22:15:41] <kFuQ> sweet
[22:15:46] <kFuQ> that looks just bad ass
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[22:17:16] <tsoome> pfinstall sources are not available?
[22:17:24] <richlowe> Install is not yet open.
[22:17:31] <Error_404> words cannot describe how much i hate the look of black electronics
[22:17:44] <tsoome> ok
[22:18:19] <tsoome> I guess I haveto wait for next snv and hope I can do my upgrade then...
[22:18:26] <sahafeez> pfinstall?
[22:18:31] <richlowe> tsoome: what's the problem?
[22:18:46] <tsoome> upgrade fails with not enough free space
[22:18:52] <richlowe> Oh, yeah, I remember that.
[22:18:59] <richlowe> you're buggered then, yeah.
[22:19:00] <tsoome> yes, that one
[22:19:42] <tsoome> of course I can write some kind of wrapper to fool it...
[22:22:05] * richlowe could have sworn there used to be magic to skip the space checks.
[22:23:00] <tsoome> hm, good point
[22:23:20] * tsoome digs into install-* scripts
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[22:29:46] <tsoome> hm, it seems I'll try custom jumpstart tomorrow:D
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[22:39:16] <plutonas> hello, i am a linux user and i would like to ask: which are some good reasons to switch to opensolaris?
[22:39:35] <tsoome> to learn from it
[22:39:46] <kjetilho> ZFS, SMF, Dtrace, Zones
[22:39:49] <estibi> plutonas: zfs, dtrace, zones ...
[22:39:52] <Error_404> faster
[22:39:55] <Error_404> more stable
[22:39:56] <estibi> hehe
[22:40:02] <Error_404> less security holes
[22:40:07] <plutonas> estibi: i dont understand a lot from that.
[22:40:08] <tsoome> for stability, switch to solaris
[22:40:09] <Error_404> not a goddamned mess of spagetti code
[22:40:24] <Error_404> proper testing before code is comitted
[22:40:26] <plutonas> tsoome: what would i learn more from what i learn in linux
[22:40:27] <kjetilho> oh yes, stable interfaces
[22:40:38] <tsoome> this is up to you
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[22:40:41] <estibi> plutonas: opensolaris.org
[22:40:42] <tomww> write your software once, run indefinitely (even between major upgrades)
[22:40:45] <tsoome> if you can learn
[22:40:58] <tsoome> some can't
[22:41:24] <plutonas> i see...
[22:41:27] <jamesd> no picture of a penguin in the startup screen.
[22:41:30] <tomww> no
[22:41:31] <tsoome> solaris has been designed
[22:41:41] <Error_404> solaris is about 60% to 300% faster than linux
[22:41:52] <Error_404> sun's testing showed mysql was 60% faster...
[22:42:03] <tsoome> not randomly pasted bunch of ideas
[22:42:19] <Error_404> there was an asterisk test that showed solaris handling literally 3 times the load of linux, and linux spent a good chunk of time segfaulting
[22:42:33] <plutonas> but that about stability, spaghetti code, and has been designed etc, could be the words of a bsd fan too, so the question goes why opensolaris to bsd?
[22:42:45] <Error_404> Linux is a whole bunch of good ideas thrown haphazardly together
[22:42:50] <estibi> plutonas: first read about ZFS, DTRACE, ZONES, etc ..
[22:42:55] <jmcp> tsoome: or some random bunch of "hey, this is 133t let's cobble some shit together and call it stable"
[22:42:57] <sahafeez> yes but the digium cards do not work on solaris yet so..
[22:43:09] <tsoome> :)
[22:43:42] <tomww> ok, ZFS or Dtrace or Zones - every one on its own is enough to select sorais *g*
[22:44:07] <tsoome> solaris is also good for developer
[22:44:08] <tomww> sahafeez: really?
[22:44:18] <Error_404> sahafeez: so write a driver for it
[22:44:31] <tsoome> bad code will crash, not *just* run
[22:44:32] <dlg> haha
[22:44:41] <dlg> so write a driver for it
[22:44:48] <sahafeez> never said i am a coder. just saying if you need an asterisk box with a pri card solaris will not work.
[22:44:50] <tomww> i thought there is already a driver for digiums cards ...
[22:44:57] <Tpenta> any JDS folks around?
[22:45:03] <sahafeez> no. there is some alpha stuff IIRC
[22:45:41] <Error_404> sahafeez: I have no idea how they set it up, regardless, solaris performed better
[22:45:48] <sahafeez> i run a production pbx on asterisk. PRI card with all Polycom SIP phones. Slackware 10 on a RAID1
[22:47:01] <sahafeez> see that is what you do not get, it may work better but if you cannot do what you need then there is no point to it. i believe that solaris would scale better then linux with asterisk. no doubt. but what do I do about that need for having a PRI?
[22:47:21] <tsoome> it's the same question - why vendors are writing apps for windows (and linux)
[22:47:30] <_syphilis_> grmh, i want snooping on tunnel ifs >:(
[22:47:46] <richlowe> isn't that (yet another) clearview thing?
[22:48:12] <tsoome> I suppose it is
[22:48:28] <tsoome> I think it was one of the goals
[22:49:33] <sahafeez> i used to have religon about OS & hardware. having to run many large production networks i gave it up. i still have a strong view of what works best (i love solaris and sun or apple on the desktop) but i need the apps that the biz runs. for example, if you are in construction you need primavara. it is windows only. you cannot do biz without it.
[22:50:08] <tsoome> thats all true
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[23:26:35] <onbot> commit by kp158701:  6498830 ip_hdr_length_nexthdr_v6 assertion on telnet connection to local address
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