[00:11:09] <Error_404> am I the only one that finds it wierd that to output HTML from a JSF UIComponent, you need to hardcode the html tags... old j2ee servlet style?
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[00:11:25] <Error_404> isn't that the whole reason JSP was invented... so you *DON'T* do that anymore
[00:11:57] <trygvis> you *can* do that if you want, it's a useful feature
[00:12:09] <trygvis> but you can also write taglibs with JSPs if you want
[00:12:51] <Error_404> with JSF ?
[00:12:57] * Error_404 reads more documentation
[00:13:26] <trygvis> well, it's not JSF-specific
[00:13:54] <Error_404> oh, I'm talking about jsf specfic UIComponent implementers
[00:14:15] <trygvis> oh, dunno
[00:14:36] <_syphilis_> error: you have to put the HTML inside the Java code?
[00:20:29] <Error_404> _syphilis_: unless I'm mistaken, yes
[00:20:46] <Error_404> however it's quite possible that I'm just half-retarded & didn't see how to do it otherwise
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[00:25:41] <aliquis> What is a sata disk called in solaris on x86? I don't wanna do anything stupid against the wrong disk =P
[00:26:08] <Error_404> cXdX
[00:26:25] <Error_404> for some X in N
[00:26:33] <aliquis> ok, so same as ata?
[00:26:43] <aliquis> are there some way i can scan which drive is called what?
[00:26:49] <Error_404> format
[00:26:50] <_syphilis_> aliquis: format
[00:26:54] <aliquis> k
[00:27:25] <aliquis> AVAILABLE DISK SELECTIONS:
[00:27:25] <aliquis>        0. c0d0 <DEFAULT cyl 22240 alt 2 hd 255 sec 63>
[00:27:25] <aliquis>           /pci@0,0/pci-ide@f,1/ide@0/cmdk@0,0
[00:27:25] <aliquis>        1. c1d0 <DEFAULT cyl 14943 alt 2 hd 255 sec 63>
[00:27:25] <aliquis>           /pci@0,0/pci-ide@f,1/ide@1/cmdk@0,0
[00:27:25] <aliquis>        2. c1d1 <DEFAULT cyl 14943 alt 2 hd 255 sec 63>
[00:27:27] <aliquis>           /pci@0,0/pci-ide@f,1/ide@1/cmdk@1,0
[00:27:29] <aliquis>        3. c6d0 <drive type unknown>
[00:27:31] <aliquis>           /pci@0,0/pci-ide@f/ide@1/cmdk@0,0
[00:27:34] <aliquis> not very informative
[00:27:35] <aliquis> =P
[00:27:37] <aliquis> i guess c6 is my sata then
[00:27:45] <_syphilis_> hmm, there's something that causes that but i forget what
[00:27:50] <_syphilis_> i think it has to do with how the disk is labelled
[00:28:03] <_syphilis_> try iostat -En instead
[00:28:42] <aliquis> c6d0             Soft Errors: 0 Hard Errors: 0 Transport Errors: 0
[00:28:42] <aliquis> Model: SAMSUNG SP2504C Revision:  Serial No: S09QJ1UL518010  Size: 250.06GB <250058833920 bytes>
[00:28:42] <aliquis> Me
[00:28:45] <aliquis> yeah, better
[00:28:51] <aliquis> =P, thanks, you are the leet! :D
[00:29:38] * jamesd is glad that aliquis did not have a x4500...
[00:30:28] <_syphilis_> i guess X4500 must have a standard slot-to-cllr/drive scheme
[00:30:33] <_syphilis_> otherwise it'd be quite unusable :)
[00:30:42] <richlowe> They also ship with some tool dlg had asked about.
[00:30:46] <richlowe> (SUNWhd?)
[00:31:10] <aliquis> _syphilis_: so what is the best way to list all partitions/slices on a disk then?
[00:31:16] <aliquis> in format aswell?
[00:31:19] <_syphilis_> aliquis: format, select disk #, 'part', 'print'
[00:31:23] <Error_404> yes, format works for that as well
[00:31:32] <Error_404> format is a fantastic tool
[00:33:56] <dlg> richlowe: i couldnt find it on the media
[00:34:03] <dlg> its on the sun downloads page somewhere
[00:34:10] <dlg> and it is very necessary on the x4500
[00:34:25] <jamesd> _syphilis_, the x4500 has 6x 8 sata controollers with each  sata controller chip is on its own north bridge.
[00:34:38] <_syphilis_> james: that's why i said "to-cllr/drive"
[00:34:52] <Error_404> jamesd: trippy
[00:35:34] <jamesd> that is how the x4500 has been benchmarked at up to  2GB/s  of drive IO.
[00:36:02] <_syphilis_> i'm talking about locating a disk (e.g. to replace a failed one), not performance..
[00:36:03] <jamesd> with  greater than  1GB/s has been verified by 3rd parties without tweaking the setup.
[00:40:23] <jamesd> _syphilis_, actually each drive is numbered, and has 3 leds on each one that give the status of the drive and one can be controlled to made flash so a tech can spot which drive is to be removed without any problem.
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[00:41:11] <aliquis> my terminal crashed ;/
[00:41:32] <aliquis>        3. c6d0 <drive type unknown>
[00:41:32] <aliquis>           /pci@0,0/pci-ide@f/ide@1/cmdk@0,0
[00:41:35] <aliquis> then i choose 3
[00:41:40] <jamesd> https://photos.sun.com/download?acton=download&id=6079&returnPage=%2Fsearch%2Fresults.jsp&submit=+Download+
[00:41:43] <aliquis> AVAILABLE DRIVE TYPES:
[00:41:43] <aliquis>         0. DEFAULT
[00:41:43] <aliquis>         1. DEFAULT
[00:41:43] <aliquis>         2. other
[00:41:43] <aliquis> Specify disk type (enter its number):
[00:41:44] <aliquis> ideas? :D
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[00:43:04] <aliquis> jamesd: pick a random between 0 and 2
[00:43:40] <jamesd> aliquis, try each one see which one gives you valid answers from your drive.
[00:43:44] <Error_404> inclusive or exclusive?
[00:43:47] <Tpenta> 1.451
[00:43:53] <aliquis> how shall i know what is valid? :D
[00:43:54] <Tpenta> better, pi/2
[00:44:06] <aliquis> from bios? read label?
[00:44:15] <Tpenta> ahh i did not see the scroll back (sorry for poor attempt at humour)
[00:44:32] <Error_404> Tpenta: you and me both
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[00:45:25] <aliquis> jamesd: shall i go with what the bios says and in that case does it matter under which kind of adressing or shall i try and see if there are any real numbers on the drive or any data sheet or so?
[00:46:17] <jamesd> aliquis, usually the wrong answers are way different than the reality, so you sholdn't have to do any research
[00:46:46] <aliquis> <DEFAULT cyl 14943 alt 2 hd 255 sec 63>
[00:46:49] <dlg> aliquis: what are you trying to do?
[00:47:09] <aliquis> <DEFAULT cyl 22240 alt 2 hd 255 sec 63>
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[00:47:41] <aliquis> dlg: just wanna partition and format my 250GB sata disk and make a backup of my files on it
[00:48:00] <dlg> and its just a normal whitebox machine?
[00:48:04] <aliquis> yes
[00:48:27] <dlg> do you know which disk it is?
[00:48:37] <aliquis> a samsung spinpoint p120 250GB
[00:48:51] <dlg> but its not listed in format?
[00:48:55] <aliquis> i can turn it around but i'd rather turn the machine of first in that case just to be on the safe side
[00:49:03] <aliquis> obviously ;)
[00:49:10] <dlg> have you run disks or devfsadm ?
[00:49:16] <aliquis> no
[00:49:20] <dlg> try disks -v
[00:49:38] <aliquis> and then?
[00:49:47] <dlg> try format again
[00:49:52] <aliquis> still says unknown
[00:50:25] <dlg> boo
[00:50:48] <aliquis> anyway, guess i'll reboot and read on disk + check bios
[00:51:01] <aliquis> and choose whatever matches if anything
[00:51:02] <aliquis> ;D
[00:51:23] <aliquis> if i'm unlucky one of the values is in the bios and the other one on the drive ;)
[00:51:56] <aliquis> brb
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[01:00:33] <aliquis> Text on disk doesn't say anything above cylinders or heads, only model no: SP2504C and LBA 488,397,168 if it's possible to get the right settings out of that one. BIOS doesn't list sata drives. Also if I wanna put linux on begining of that disk what is the best way to do it so I don't get a swap partition over all my files? ;)
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[01:03:39] <Error_404> aliquis: brandZ
[01:03:41] <Error_404> no need for linux
[01:03:59] <aliquis>         Logical         max     current
[01:03:59] <aliquis>         cylinders       16383   16383
[01:03:59] <aliquis>         heads           16      16
[01:03:59] <aliquis>         sectors/track   63      63
[01:04:12] <aliquis> is what it says in linux (googled for it)
[01:04:52] <aliquis> Error_404: There wouldn't be any need for linux if there was a kde port, ekiga work, things where compiled with oss support and there was an official way to get packages for solaris
[01:05:08] <aliquis> but there isn't =P, thought i just wanna have a way to reach the file
[01:05:09] <Error_404> there's a kde port
[01:05:09] <aliquis> s
[01:05:13] <aliquis> yeah but it's old =P
[01:05:14] <Error_404> i'm using it right now
[01:05:20] <Error_404> there's also CSWkde
[01:06:22] <Error_404> there's no offical way to get packages for linux either
[01:06:33] <Error_404> just some monkeys that threw one together
[01:06:40] <Error_404> like sunfreeware.... or blastwave
[01:07:03] <aliquis> Error_404: Well in any case what I would like to do is just to move my files over to a filesystem which whatever else OS can read =P. But to begin with I need to partition this disk but I don't know if I shall choose the option with 14943 or 22240 cylinders
[01:07:34] <aliquis> heh, true, but atleast when you have decided dist it's done, and there are in freebsd (althought ports is sort of a pain I suppose, atleast portsupgrade)
[01:08:23] <Error_404> I just see very little point in Linux existing
[01:10:47] <Error_404> *shrug*
[01:11:15] <jamesd> nexenta+ a broadband connection makes kde almost painless, i think they are even using 3.5.2  kde.
[01:11:26] <Error_404> in either case, linux won't spew swap unless it finds some magic binary number in the partition, so either don't worry, or set it to Solaris2
[01:11:37] <Error_404> and yes, use Nexenta
[01:11:52] <Error_404> or at the very least PC/Desktop/Free BSD
[01:13:13] <aliquis> Well I suppose many people sees a point in it =P, althought me myself would prefer FreeBSD. But in any case I installed Solaris because I wanted to learn but I installed it as desktop and we aren't very compatible so I normally boot XP and now I just wanna get my files over to an OS I can handle and then I'll try installing OS X on this disk, and if that doesn't work it will probably be linux just because I won't ha
[01:13:13] <aliquis> ve to move the files from UFS (most of them are on ZFS now) or FreeBSD and figure out how to read them later (maybe move them over from a linux livecd?). If I wanna learn Solaris it would be much easier for me to just put it on another machine and access it over the network instead of using it as a desktop since it's to much trouble for me.
[01:13:55] * Odin-LAP likes Solaris for a desktop, actually.
[01:14:04] <Odin-LAP> Nexenta, specifically, though.
[01:14:20] <Error_404> I've got SX:CR on this laptop
[01:14:23] <Odin-LAP> Though I'm thinking of having a look at Solaris Express...
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[01:15:16] <Error_404> I played with nexenta for a grand total of about 10 minutes
[01:15:21] <aliquis> Odin-LAP: Well even if i switch to nexenta i still need to have these files copied over somewhere else before reinstalling
[01:15:34] <Odin-LAP> Heeh. :)
[01:15:37] <Error_404> aliquis: burn it to a CD?
[01:15:37] <jamesd> nexenta is really nice if you are looking for a desktop OS, and don't love  gnome.
[01:15:43] <aliquis> jamesd: Yeah, nexanta might be a nice alternative
[01:15:57] <aliquis> thought I don't know how it would affect my eventual solaris learning
[01:16:16] <Error_404> still reads most of the same config stuff,
[01:16:22] <Error_404> IIRC, still has svc
[01:16:25] <jamesd> aliquis, most of the solaris commands are still there, so you can learn alot off of it.
[01:16:27] <aliquis> I would rather prefer that SX:CR was the dist which had all those packages and apt ;)
[01:16:32] <Odin-LAP> jamesd: GNOME is their default system ... are you referring to the availability of other stuff?
[01:16:33] <Error_404> i'm sure you'd be fine to graduate to solaris proper later
[01:16:36] <jamesd> and it still has  ZFS, dtrace and smf.
[01:16:53] <Error_404> Nexenta: Training Wheels for Solaris
[01:16:54] <Error_404> heh
[01:16:58] <jamesd> Odin-LAP, yes,  kde is just   apt-get install kde  away.
[01:17:03] <Odin-LAP> apt is actually the only reason I chose Nexenta over Solarix Express.
[01:17:10] <aliquis> Error_404: Yeah, I burn my 99+49+38GB of files to a CD
[01:17:15] <aliquis> and then I reinstall
[01:17:15] <Error_404> Odin-LAP: blastwave uses an apt-like system
[01:17:17] <aliquis> what a good idea
[01:17:18] <jamesd> Odin-LAP, yes pretty much..
[01:17:32] <Odin-LAP> Error_404: May be worth looking at.
[01:17:39] <aliquis> 99GB is even with zfs compression on i think
[01:17:40] <aliquis> ;)
[01:17:43] <Error_404> aliquis: i'm not sure what your layout is like, but i have my system on one drive
[01:17:52] <Error_404> and my zpool mirrored across a couple more
[01:17:57] <Odin-LAP> Error_404: I'm getting a Mac lap soon, anyway, so I'll have to get used to missing it anyway. :p
[01:18:03] <Error_404> if i felt like using nexenta, i could wipe the system drive and install
[01:18:07] <Error_404> then import the zpool
[01:18:24] <Error_404> Odin-LAP: mac laptops use regular boring PC parts, they'll run solaris just fine
[01:18:29] <Error_404> albeit through bootcamp
[01:18:36] <aliquis> Error_404: Well who cares, in format my samsung 250gb sata shows up with two configs, one with cyl 14943 and the other with 22240, which one shall i use? IT's a sp2504c drive
[01:18:41] <Odin-LAP> Error_404: Does it run through Bootcamp?
[01:19:01] <Error_404> Odin-LAP: everything I've seen suggests yes
[01:19:22] <Odin-LAP> Hmm.
[01:19:35] <Odin-LAP> They boot via EFI, though.
[01:19:40] <jamesd> aliquis, try the bigger one and see how much disk space it gives you.. it should be about   ~245GB of disk space.
[01:19:57] <aliquis> k
[01:20:06] <aliquis> i think it should be 239GB according to pqmagic earlier
[01:20:11] <Error_404> Odin-LAP: yeah, but bootcamp fixes that
[01:20:24] <Odin-LAP> Ah. True.
[01:20:37] <Odin-LAP> At least enough to boot Windows...
[01:20:54] <aliquis> Yeah, i don't think you need bootcamp for solaris
[01:20:57] <aliquis> or linux
[01:21:07] <aliquis> atleast if they have efi support ;/
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[01:21:25] <aliquis> isn't the major part of bootcamp drivers for windows?
[01:21:36] <Error_404> you do need bootcamp for both solaris and linux
[01:21:52] <Error_404> assuming you're not stealing OSX in either case
[01:22:17] <Error_404> grub doesn't boot EFI yet.... linux will work with EFI, but it's a matter of getting it to bootstrap
[01:22:28] <Error_404> solaris, i haven't seen any EFI patches but i could be wrong
[01:23:38] * delewis mutters "Why couldn't Apple just use an IEEE-1275-compatible firmware?"
[01:24:05] <Error_404> because they took what intel gave them
[01:24:12] <jamesd> maybe intel couldn't give them one.
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[01:24:27] <Error_404> Intel: Use EFI, we've been pushing it with itanic but nobody bought that Apple: okay
[01:24:39] <delewis> that's what I suspect, but from my knowledge of IEEE-1275, all you would have to port is the Fourth loader and maybe a few other smaller portions.
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[01:25:04] <aliquis> what is wrong with efi then?
[01:25:16] <Error_404> delewis: i'm convinced it was so intel could find a dumping ground for it's tech.... it spent all that money on it, it may as well scam some unsuspecting consumers in to buying it
[01:25:17] <delewis> Netapp has their own IEEE-1275 for x86
[01:25:18] <aliquis> ieee-1275 = openfirmware or something?
[01:25:25] <delewis> aliquis: yes.
[01:25:32] <dlg> man, that would be nice
[01:25:41] <aliquis> does it require any special hardware?
[01:25:45] <jamesd> aliquis, lots of bios makers are still working on efi support....  so if you put a efi label on a drive it may cause the box to hang.
[01:25:50] <delewis> aliquis: a number of things, but first and foremost IEEE-1275 was already here, tried, true, and tested.
[01:25:56] <Error_404> jamesd: i found that out the hard way
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[01:25:58] <delewis> and it had the vendor support
[01:26:06] <Error_404> and i now have a 120G that's completely useless
[01:26:07] <Error_404> :D
[01:26:09] <LeftWing> Openfirmware is pretty great.
[01:26:18] <delewis> but as always, Apple has to go with the least popular solution and then push it onto everyone else to make it the most popular. :-)
[01:26:27] <jamesd> Error_404, don't feel bad even some owners of the sun Ultra 20 got the same wake up call...
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[01:26:34] <Error_404> that'll teach me for cheaping out on SiS hardware
[01:26:53] <aliquis> "omg, integrated intel video is the shit! Because it can play HD video!"
[01:26:58] <Error_404> OTOH, i put together the machine for just over $100
[01:27:05] <aliquis> "why can't my mac play 1080p HD content?"
[01:27:06] <aliquis> ;D
[01:27:25] <Error_404> processor was $50, motherboard was $60...
[01:27:37] <delewis> aliquis: the nice thing about IEEE-1275 is the actual PROMs on each device can have their driver code written in a platform-independent language called Fourth. I could take, say an Emulex fibre HBA from my IBM pSeries that has a PowerPC and throw it into my Blade 1000 that has an UltraSPARC-III.
[01:28:07] <delewis> and then you've got the device tree that everyone loves.
[01:28:25] <Error_404> delewis: does EFI not do the same thing?
[01:28:49] <delewis> Error_404: no clue.
[01:28:57] <dlg> efi doesnt use forth
[01:29:05] <delewis> well, I knew that. :-)
[01:29:20] <dlg> efi machines use acpi to do all the device mapping and enumeration stuff
[01:29:37] <delewis> something tells me that's not as good as what OBP does :-)
[01:29:51] <dlg> ofw is awesome
[01:29:54] <delewis> there's nothing like being able to do a cd / and an ls to see your device tree :-)
[01:30:13] <dlg> there's also nothing like being able to use a serial port
[01:30:30] <delewis> and if you're really sick, you can write a Towers of Hanoi solver in OpenFirmware using Forth.
[01:30:41] <delewis> (someone has actually already done this)
[01:30:43] * Theoden-Nexenta is listening to:  Sibelius - Symphony 2  : courtesy of Rhythmbox
[01:30:57] <dlg> delewis: i know of guys who write a text editor in forth
[01:31:14] <dlg> its like the os isnt even really needed :/
[01:31:21] <delewis> dlg: indeed.
[01:31:32] <delewis> it's a shame IEEE-1275 was never finalized :-(
[01:31:55] <delewis> maybe Apple could've made an offer to Netapp for their OpenFirmware x86 implementation :-)
[01:32:45] <Error_404> sun offered SPARC to apple IIRC
[01:32:58] <dlg> delewis: too much politics in these decisions
[01:33:03] <Error_404> but naturally, they went with cheap junk instead
[01:33:04] <delewis> dlg: of course.
[01:33:09] <dlg> sigh
[01:33:10] <Odin-LAP> Kill politics.
[01:33:17] <Odin-LAP> Everyone adopt Sun's solution! ;)
[01:33:36] * Odin-LAP finds that there's also politics in the cult of "technical superiority".
[01:33:47] * delewis pets his Sun workstation
[01:34:48] <delewis> I got to offload my SPARCstation 5 last week onto a friend that's interested in SPARC assembly and OpenFirmware. Thus far, I've gotten several emails about how impressed he is with the quality of the system, as a whole.
[01:34:59] <Odin-LAP> Heh.
[01:35:11] * Odin-LAP would like to play around with a SPARC. :p
[01:35:21] <Error_404> buy one
[01:35:22] <delewis> he's an embedded systems programmer, so he's used to "confining" systems :-)
[01:35:31] <Error_404> you can get an ultra60 for under $100 these days
[01:35:34] <delewis> Odin-LAP: semi-modern hardware is pretty cheap.
[01:35:49] <delewis> and you'd be surprised how usable 10-year-old hardware is.
[01:35:51] <Error_404> i bought an ultra2 for $20
[01:36:00] <delewis> my newest system is only 7 years old :-)
[01:36:04] <delewis> and I use it as my primary workstation.
[01:36:28] <Odin-LAP> delewis: And it's running on recent versions of Solaris?
[01:36:56] <delewis> Odin-LAP: of course.
[01:37:08] <Odin-LAP> Interesting.
[01:37:11] <dlg> delewis: its not a u10 is it?
[01:37:20] <delewis> dlg: no, a Blade 1000.
[01:37:27] <delewis> I've been using JDS on it, as well.
[01:37:30] <dlg> nice
[01:37:33] <dlg> the disks arent too noisy?
[01:37:38] <lloy0076> I can get an Ultra II based machine for nothing but the postage will cost more than nothing, unfortunately :(
[01:37:43] <delewis> I can barely hear the system, dlg.
[01:37:50] <delewis> Blade 1000s are ultra-quiet.
[01:37:51] <lloy0076> Well, nothing === a stupidly low amount
[01:38:01] <dlg> id love a blade 1000 or 2000
[01:38:18] <delewis> dlg: on the other hand, my A5200 with 22x18GB 10,000RPM disks is quite loud..
[01:38:33] <dlg> yeah, so is mine
[01:38:36] <dlg> but its fibre
[01:38:45] <dlg> so you can just run a long cable to another room
[01:39:33] <Error_404> lloy0076: i got mine of a guy on craigslist
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[01:46:40] <lloy0076> Error_404: Isn't craigslist a place where one goes to, errrm, find interesting people?
[01:46:53] <dwc-> among other things, yes
[01:47:46] <Error_404> and interesting hardware
[01:48:16] <Error_404> it's a one stop shop
[01:49:03] <Error_404> pick up an Ultra, and a gay prostitute, all at the same place
[01:50:00] <jamesd> dlg, and delewis you can practicly hang a cable to the next city with the right controllers ;-p
[01:51:03] <Error_404> build a tech shack in the back yard
[01:51:22] <Error_404> "all rackable equipment goes in the tool shed"
[01:51:52] <dlg> that would be nice
[01:52:01] <jamesd> build a bomb/server shelter and the noise will drive away all the groundhogs/rodents
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[02:12:19] <lloy0076> Stupid firefox.
[02:12:42] <lloy0076> I'm using Chatzilla and have no browser windows open. Nothing wrong with that but using the button to start a browser causes firefox to tell me to close firefox.
[02:12:51] <lloy0076> But there's no buttons to start a browser window.
[02:12:54] * lloy0076 sigh
[02:12:57] <lloy0076> linux.com.au
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[02:17:31] <dwc-> how do you get to chatzilla in ff
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[02:36:09] <lloy0076> I downloaded the XPI installer for Chatzilla.
[02:36:18] <lloy0076> It mostly works except when it doesn't.
[02:36:29] <Error_404> consistency is key
[02:36:32] <lloy0076> It doesn't want to under OpenSolaris atm (it was before) so I'm currently using the Linux version.
[02:37:05] <aliquis> I tried using format now and choose 0 for custom but then I have to run fdisk and I can't find out how I can see how large the disc/partition will be without carrying on?
[02:37:13] <dwc-> oh, I just use mozilla suite/seamonkey
[02:37:55] <lloy0076> dwc-: I used to but then decided to jump to Firefox/Thunderbird/Chatzilla.
[02:47:15] <aliquis> how shall i find out what drive type i shall choose for my harddrive using format?
[02:47:36] <Error_404> use Solaris2
[02:47:58] <Error_404> Solaris is 0x82, which linux took
[02:48:14] <Error_404> solaris2 is 0xbf (iirc), which is only used by sol
[02:48:52] <aliquis> yeah but for drive size
[02:49:30] <aliquis> this is really weird, i noticed one more thing
[02:49:37] <aliquis>        0. c0d0 <DEFAULT cyl 22240 alt 2 hd 255 sec 63>
[02:49:42] <aliquis>        1. c1d0 <DEFAULT cyl 14943 alt 2 hd 255 sec 63>
[02:49:47] <aliquis>        2. c1d1 <DEFAULT cyl 14943 alt 2 hd 255 sec 63>
[02:49:53] <aliquis>        3. c6d0 <drive type unknown>
[02:50:06] <aliquis> i choose 3 and get drive types 0) Default 1) Default 2) Other
[02:50:22] <aliquis> where 0 gives same settings as drive 1 and 2 and 1 gives same settings as drive 0
[02:50:38] <aliquis> is it just some made up value ?
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[02:51:43] <aliquis> if i partition it in another os can solaris maybe get the correct values then?
[02:52:37] <lloy0076> Java Swing is meant to look similar to its host system. That's why my Swing app, when I set the default look and feel to true, running under Gnome2 (JDS) looks like Motif.
[02:52:43] * lloy0076 forgot that Gnome is built using Motif
[02:53:24] <dvorak> err, since when?
[02:53:38] <dvorak> it uses gtk
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[02:58:02] <aliquis> it might have been a joke
[02:58:47] <aliquis> atleast it looks like an x app, whatever that means ;)
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[03:22:46] <Error_404> anyone know of a good OS kernel design book in general
[03:23:12] <Error_404> solaris internals is fantastic, but I'd like some more theory
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[03:33:36] <delewis> Error_404: Tanenbaum
[03:33:47] <delewis> "Modern Operating Systems" or the Minix version.
[03:37:58] <Error_404> hmm...
[03:38:01] <Error_404> $100
[03:38:12] <Error_404> okie, I'll budget it
[03:38:54] <jamesd> Error_404, you can usually buy textbooks like that used on amazon for a lot less.
[03:40:13] <Error_404> yeah, it's cool
[03:40:52] <jamesd> http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Operating-Systems-Andrew-Tanenbaum/dp/0130313580/sr=8-1/qid=1168224027/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-1289193-3766427?ie=UTF8&s=books  used from $73.
[03:41:21] <Doc> yes, but all that book will tell you is that Solaris is Obsolete too!
[03:42:00] <jamesd> you might be better off reading all the comments in opensolaris
[03:42:04] <Error_404> ooh, probably counterfeit copy on ebay for just over $20
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[03:45:08] <Error_404> heh, or a "black and white" copy from china for $3
[03:45:13] <Error_404> they assure me it's not pirated
[03:46:03] <Doc> nah.. china hasnt worked out color printing presses yet, so everything is in black-n-white
[03:48:36] <Error_404> and red
[03:48:45] <Error_404> glorious people's red
[03:49:08] <delewis> Doc: indeed, Tanenbaum seems to have been Linux-ified.
[03:49:09] <Doc> they draw that on later in texta
[03:49:26] <delewis> he compared the "modern" algorithms of Linux to 4.4BSD in the Unix case-study.
[03:49:55] <delewis> it's still a decent operating systems text, nonetheless.
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[03:51:00] <Error_404> Doc: with cheap prison labour
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[03:52:01] <mrdeviant> _the design and implementation of the freebsd operating system_ is a good read too
[03:52:37] <Error_404> heh, i love these chinese photocopier services...
[03:52:48] <Error_404> "this book is printed on high quality paper legally"
[03:53:23] <Error_404> softcover copies of books that were never made in that form, etc
[03:53:39] <delewis> mrdeviant: don't you mean the BSD operating system?
[03:53:52] <delewis> IIRC, that text was written on the design and implemention of the 4.4BSD operating system.
[03:53:59] <delewis> McKusick, et al.
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[03:54:31] <mrdeviant> no, i mean this - http://www.awprofessional.com/bookstore/product.asp?isbn=0201702452&rl=1
[03:55:14] <delewis> interesting
[03:55:53] <delewis> http://www.awprofessional.com/bookstore/product.asp?isbn=0201549794&rl=1
[03:56:04] <Odin-LAP> Is Solaris Internals something a curious person should have a look at, or is it "the deep end"? :>
[03:56:27] <Doc> consider going to the deep end, and then starting digging
[03:56:33] <Error_404> Odin-LAP: yes, and yes
[03:56:34] <Doc> with one of those high-powered drills
[03:56:44] <Odin-LAP> Heh. :p
[03:56:46] <delewis> Odin-LAP: it details a lot of the kernel structures and so fourth.
[03:56:51] <lloy0076> Solaris Internals is good, well explained and easy to understand.
[03:56:52] <Error_404> it's a fantastic book, i'm quite happy with it
[03:57:09] <delewis> so yeah, unless you have a clue about operating systems design, 80% of Solaris Internals probably won't make a lot of sense.
[03:57:09] <Error_404> I didn't get the dtrace one though
[03:57:15] <lloy0076> Then again, I've kind of read heaps of computer science books and I'm not sure how much prior knowledge one would need to make sense of it.
[03:57:18] <Odin-LAP> delewis: Yes, I figured as much. What I was wondering is, does it need significant programming experience to understand, or..?
[03:57:23] <delewis> I think I liked the structure of the first edition much better.
[03:57:32] <lloy0076> Odin-LAP: No, you don't really need programming experience.
[03:57:35] <delewis> where locking primitives, scheduling, etc. was covered in the first part
[03:57:42] <lloy0076> Odin-LAP: Understanding things like lists, queues and how to read C could help.
[03:57:45] <delewis> and in more detail.
[03:58:22] <delewis> "The Design of the UNIX Operating System" by Bach is good, too.
[03:58:29] <lloy0076> Odin-LAP: I.E. Computer science theory is probably more important than understanding the code snippets. Code snippets are easy to decipher but if you fail to understand what a "lock" is or something like that you'll get confused :)
[03:58:30] <Odin-LAP> lloy0076: So, having read and understood K&R second ed. is useful? :p
[03:58:30] <delewis> written around System V
[03:58:42] <delewis> Odin-LAP: not really.
[03:58:52] <delewis> knowing more about general operating system design and problems is more useful.
[03:59:06] <lloy0076> lol
[03:59:13] <delewis> mutual exclusion, virtual memory, processes, etc.
[03:59:16] <lloy0076> Being able to memorise ALL the source code would be a good help!!!!
[03:59:19] * lloy0076 evil grin
[03:59:19] <Odin-LAP> delewis: I can see why that would be.
[03:59:24] <Error_404> sweet, i can join USENIX for $40... wonder if it's worth it
[03:59:31] <delewis> Tanenbaum covers all of that pretty well.
[03:59:46] <lloy0076> Anyway, I better get back to my "real work".
[04:00:03] <delewis> Error_404: depends on if you're interested in the more theoratical or the more practical.
[04:00:07] <Error_404> theoretical
[04:00:18] <delewis> you probably want an ACM or IEEE membership then.
[04:00:48] <Odin-LAP> delewis: But if you have a basic understanding of that stuff? I *think* I do, but mostly just superficial... :/
[04:00:49] <delewis> your university probably has a membership if you've got a decent C.S. department, though.
[04:00:57] <delewis> Odin-LAP: that's really all that counts.
[04:01:22] <delewis> if you can understand what virtual memory does, why you need page replacement algorithms and so fourth, you'd be able to dig into the Solaris Internals section on virtual memory.
[04:02:07] <Error_404> Odin-LAP: if you don't understand a concept in SI, you can check it out on wikipedia, here, google, etc
[04:02:18] <delewis> likewise if you know what a process is, a process table, context switching, etc. you'd be able to dig into the section on processes.
[04:02:32] <delewis> IMO, I'd start with Tanenbaum, progress to Bach, and go to Solaris Internals.
[04:02:47] <Odin-LAP> Hm.
[04:02:48] <delewis> as I mentioned earlier Bach is written around System V, so it's fairly relevant to Solaris.
[04:03:37] <delewis> and System V is far simpler than Solaris, so you'll be able to concentrate on the core Unix operating system concepts, rather than getting into scalability, zones, and all of the other Solaris features.
[04:04:01] <delewis> Solaris Internals tends to skim over the "core Unix operatings system concepts" as I call them.
[04:04:22] <Odin-LAP> Hmm. Cover looks like K&R. 8)
[04:04:26] <delewis> which Bach covers in far more detail "What's the structure of an inode? How does a hard link differ from a soft link? How are hard links implemented, etc.?"
[04:04:32] <Error_404> Odin-LAP: of SI?
[04:04:46] <Odin-LAP> Error_404: No, the Bach book.
[04:04:51] <Error_404> the cover looks like a bunch of kids f**king with 20,000$ worth of computer equipment
[04:05:22] <delewis> I'd really recommend the Bach book, though. It's a nice graduation from Tanenbaum to something a bit more specific.
[04:05:36] <Error_404> :)
[04:05:47] <Odin-LAP> http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/0132017997.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V1056419181_.gif <-- Like, real similar.
[04:06:12] <delewis> yep, that's it :-)
[04:06:56] <Error_404> sketchy chinese photocopy of bach is more expensive than sketchy chinese ebay photocopy of tann.
[04:07:09] <delewis> Bach is a lot "thinner" than Tanenbaum
[04:07:16] <delewis> and a lot more terse
[04:07:30] <delewis> ~ 450 pgs vs. 1,000 pgs.
[04:08:06] <Odin-LAP> Stiff technical language, maybe?
[04:08:19] <delewis> not really, as long as you're used to "Unix-speak" it's not that bad.
[04:08:39] <delewis> it's nowhere near as "conversational" as Tanenbaum, though
[04:08:48] <Odin-LAP> 'k.
[04:08:49] <delewis> which likes to throw jokes on the Dutch can understand into the reading :-)
[04:08:56] <delewis> s/on/in/
[04:09:10] <Odin-LAP> I see.
[04:09:34] * Odin-LAP has read political philosophy and economics in English, it really *can't* be worse... :p
[04:10:03] <delewis> Bach pretty much assumes you know nothing about Unix.
[04:10:23] <delewis> although, it's advantageous if you've at least heard of an inode before :-)
[04:10:34] <jamesd> what about betoven?
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[04:11:15] <Odin-LAP> Hmm. Amazon.com has new copies, amazon.co.uk doesn't.
[04:11:20] <Odin-LAP> Sucks. :(
[04:11:53] <Odin-LAP> (For the record, I've had delivery times of 2 months or more from .com...)
[04:15:22] <Error_404> Odin-LAP: ebay. *nod* chinese photocopies
[04:15:40] <Odin-LAP> Heh. :p
[04:16:57] * Odin-LAP wonders if he could get a local bookstore to get it...
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[04:24:02] * steleman curses NAS
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[04:29:16] <Error_404> steleman: certain implementations of it are pretty cheap
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[04:29:30] <Error_404> eg, a pile of disks and a sempron64 in the closet
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[04:29:39] <Error_404> which is what I use
[04:29:42] <steleman> oh not NAS as in storage NAS as in Network Audio Server
[04:29:49] <Error_404> oh that NAS
[04:29:54] <Error_404> yeah, that one's a pile of crap
[04:30:21] <steleman> with a cherry on top :-)
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[04:40:51] <lloy0076> It strikes me that the performance measurements made by the/any kernel would slow the kernel down.
[04:41:03] <lloy0076> (i.e. it must be faster NOT to do foo+1 than to do it)
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[04:41:23] <Mr_You> hi
[04:41:30] <lloy0076> However, *removing* them to see if it makes the kernel go faster, by definition, might remove the way to measure such a move.
[04:41:31] <Mr_You> anyone using Xen with Solaris?
[04:41:32] * lloy0076 ponder
[04:42:12] <lloy0076> Mr_You: I think the official place for Xen on Solaris  is http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/xen/
[04:42:29] <Mr_You> nod, just wondernig if anyone is using it yet.
[04:42:34] <Mr_You> thanks.
[04:42:55] <lloy0076> I'm trying to get my head around containers and zones without also adding Xen into the confusion pot :)
[04:43:03] <Error_404> lloy0076: you can run a big enough job that clocking it is feasible
[04:43:07] <Error_404> as in, wall clock
[04:43:12] <Mr_You> aren't containers and zones the same thing?  just different name?
[04:43:27] <Error_404> "hmm, job A takes 5 minutes, but it takes 10 with $feature enabled"
[04:44:02] <jmcp> Mr_You: no, they aren't
[04:44:21] <lloy0076> Error_404: Yes, that's true. But I strongly suspect if the measurement job isn't stupidly long running then the measurement might need a fine resolution stop clock.
[04:44:22] <Mr_You> I've played with Xen on Linux, its fast.  Don't care for Linux though.
[04:44:31] <jmcp> containers include "zones", and can include FSS settings, pools etc
[04:44:50] <Odin-LAP> lloy0076: How about the trusted extensions?
[04:44:51] <lloy0076> Error_404: I figure that if the performance helping measure things (the metric counters) were to take a stupidly long time to run, they'd be refactored and/or thrown out by now.
[04:45:00] <Mr_You> ok, thats really confusing.
[04:45:04] <Odin-LAP> That seems to be a nice little thing to wrap your head around...
[04:45:27] <jmcp> Mr_You: zones are merely one feature which make up Solaris Containers
[04:45:32] <lloy0076> lol
[04:45:39] <jmcp> you don't need to setup pools or resource controls if you do not want
[04:45:48] <lloy0076> Someone change the topic to: Things to Get Confused By: item_1 item_2 item_3
[04:45:54] * jmcp looks around for a mathml-capable irc client ....
[04:46:27] <Mr_You> I've used FreeBSD jails which zones are based on.. FreeBSD isn't getting Xen support as soon as I'd like.. always liked Solaris.
[04:47:11] <Odin-LAP> Zones are considerably more aggressive than FreeBSD's jails, from what I've read...
[04:47:24] <jmcp> that's my understanding
[04:47:27] <Mr_You> aggressive?  meaning?
[04:47:48] <Mr_You> FreeBSD v6.2 (any day) is the first jails implementation with decent resource limiting.
[04:47:56] <Mr_You> its lagged there.
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[04:48:25] <jmcp> define "decent"
[04:48:36] <Odin-LAP> Mr_You: Meaning, it can divide the system more completely. I don't know the details, I'm not familiar with FreeBSD...
[04:48:38] <Mr_You> CPU limits.
[04:48:41] <lloy0076> "Decent (adj). Not crap.
[04:49:36] <Mr_You> yeah sun did good, took jails and ran with it.
[04:49:41] <jmcp> Mr_You: have a look @ FSS(7)
[04:50:10] <Mr_You> but I haven't worked in a shop that is using them, but then I've been doing more engineering than administration.
[04:50:18] <jmcp> lloy0076: it's an entirely subjective term, so when "decent:" comes up in conversation amongst people who don't know each other's technical backgrounds/biases, it's *always* better to ask
[04:50:35] <Mr_You> yeah it was vague.
[04:50:41] <jmcp> and pooladm(1M), too
[04:50:54] <Mr_You> I don't have a solaris 10 install yet.
[04:51:02] <jmcp> docs.sun.com is your friend (tm)
[04:51:15] <Mr_You> but that reminds me, is ZFS shipping with 10 x86?
[04:51:24] <Error_404> FSS lets you slice up the CPU in a million different ways
[04:51:28] <Error_404> it's quite neat
[04:51:46] <jmcp> Mr_You: sure is
[04:51:52] <Mr_You> sweet.
[04:51:55] <jmcp> it's a common part of the kernel, not arch-specific
[04:51:58] <Mr_You> but no boot drive yet?
[04:52:14] <lloy0076> jmcp: Yes, I know. My definition was meant to highlight that from the opposite point of view. Defining "crap" is also subjective.
[04:52:21] <_syphilis_> unfortunately the obvious combination of fss and projects causes a nasty resource management bug that manifests as cron not working properly
[04:52:24] <_syphilis_> afaik still not fixed
[04:52:25] <jmcp> lloy0076: *shrug* :)
[04:53:02] <Error_404> _syphilis_: cron is dead, long live sleep()
[04:53:03] <Error_404> heh
[04:53:21] <_syphilis_> the problem isn't specific to cron
[04:53:33] <_syphilis_> that's just one of the more common symptoms on a multi-user system
[04:53:52] <Mr_You> I'm going to try to move from Unix Engineering to Java and .NET programming.. desktop clients and web service servers.
[04:53:59] <_syphilis_> imo it's a fundamental design flaw in the radm api.  (although i proposed a minor api change that would mostly fix it)
[04:54:18] <Error_404> Mr_You: why .net?
[04:55:09] <Mr_You> well, its going to come after heavily investing time in Java first, but mainly to be flexible and to accommodate Microsoft customers.
[04:55:22] <Mr_You> it shouldn't be difficult to go from Java to C#.
[04:55:26] <Error_404> glassfish runs on windows too :)
[04:56:07] <Mr_You> nod, but if a business opportunity with an all M$ shop comes along and its desktop client w/ web service server, I don't want to turn it down.
[04:56:18] <Mr_You> after investigating it first, but should be fine.
[04:56:47] <jmcp> Mr_You: so what does "unix engineering" involve for you?
[04:56:49] <Mr_You> but my main projects are Java based for cross platform.
[04:57:06] <jmcp> my previous engagement was called "unix engineering" ... but was nothing of the sort
[04:57:09] <jmcp> by my definition
[04:57:53] <Mr_You> basically more writing scripts and creating/fixing (more so) solutions versus just administration (managing users, permissions, etc.)
[04:58:10] <Mr_You> if you're doing more development related activities in unix, you're unix engineer.
[04:58:29] <Mr_You> such as building a turnkey solution for an admin to administer.
[04:58:38] <jmcp> right
[04:58:47] <jmcp> that's pretty similar to my definition too
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[05:00:30] <Mr_You> for example, at my current job, I have developers bringing me their problems to troubleshoot.. job sucks heh
[05:00:42] <Mr_You> I told my boss this is an engineering position not admin.
[05:03:10] <Mr_You> but they just prefer to take advantage of people.
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[05:04:19] <jmcp> Mr_You: sounds like most other places
[05:05:26] <Mr_You> well, I went from working at fortune 500s to this 60 some peple place.. but I soon realized everyone making decisions is utterly clueless.
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[05:06:24] <Mr_You> and the environment is anti-team work.
[05:06:43] <Mr_You> zero project management.
[05:06:46] * jmcp sends a sympathy packet
[05:07:20] <Mr_You> its a joke.. and I gotta go in tomorrow.. I just try to keep in my little world and I hope I can leech a pay check off them for as long as I can... I might try to move and work from home heh
[05:07:25] <jamesd> hmm is a sympathy packet anything like a ping of death packet.
[05:07:40] <jmcp> jamesd: not from me
[05:07:57] <jmcp> Mr_You: wfh is the best thing since VPNs
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[05:08:29] <Mr_You> well I like doing both, but the anti-team work environment there I kinda wonder why bother.
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[05:09:08] <jmcp> I work remote from the rest of my team (closest member is 1000km away) so office environments actually decrease my productivity
[05:09:17] <Mr_You> its embarassing to work there.. our mail server goes down sometimes cause its broken.
[05:09:54] <Mr_You> they've been using Unixware 7.1.1 and php v4.0, its unsupported and they have no idea how to upgraded/update or follow a development lifecycle.
[05:10:19] * jmcp shudders
[05:10:37] <Mr_You> I convinced them that they won't be able to handle the large account they just signed unless they move to a 2 tiered app<->oracle10g database ASAP because the app implementation is so bad.
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[05:11:26] <Mr_You> and moving to that it works fine on 4 cpus, but they went and bought 8 CPUs so its idle 75% of the time.. and they bought another 8 way for unixware but they ignored us when we told them it probably wouldn't run on that.
[05:11:30] <Mr_You> idiots.
[05:11:49] <Mr_You> and it didn't.
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[05:12:23] <Mr_You> so considering they never fire anyone... (reason for their crappy software) I think I might take advantage of that.
[05:13:02] <Mr_You> they've had turn over cause developers don't want to work with the insecure badly written software.
[05:13:13] <Mr_You> the smart ones leave.
[05:13:56] <Mr_You> like the idiot developer who wrote an MS SQL Server client that uses the SA account (DBA account), so it gets hacked regularly cause its a simple password.
[05:14:02] <Mr_You> and its hard coded.
[05:14:09] <Mr_You> </rant>
[05:14:30] <lloy0076> lol
[05:14:35] <lloy0076> And I thought I had problems.
[05:14:50] <jmcp> lloy0076: you do, but we're too polite to mention them
[05:14:52] * jmcp ducks
[05:15:10] <steleman> to paraphrase someone smarter than me, the most efficient way of plugging a security hole is to make it as wide as possible
[05:15:17] <Mr_You> developers regularly "chmod 777" files and directories cause they are clueless and the management isn't competent to enforce a policy.. I really have no respect for management there.
[05:16:10] <elektronkind> use rbac to take away chmod rights ;)
[05:16:13] <Mr_You> one developer su's to root and mod things he shouldn't. manager does nothing.
[05:16:16] <Mr_You> so I don't care anymore.
[05:16:31] <elektronkind> "why can't I chmod anything?"
[05:16:37] <elektronkind> "because the system thinks you're an ass"
[05:16:38] <Mr_You> is unixware, I'm just tired of trying to make up for crappy management.
[05:16:50] <Mr_You> oh he already knows that.
[05:17:07] <Mr_You> most people there think I'm an ass for pointing out these mistakes.
[05:17:39] <Mr_You> I probably should have been fired, but like I said, management is clueless hahaha
[05:17:47] <Mr_You> cause I've bitched them out.
[05:19:08] <Mr_You> part of me is leary about implementing some standard infrastructure items cause they might not hire someone competent enough to manage it.
[05:19:09] <steleman> one indication of working for a good company vs. a bad company is whether or not management listens or fires when an employee bitches out
[05:19:18] <Mr_You> yup
[05:19:43] <Mr_You> they just choose to ignore it til it goes a way then act like nothing is wrong weeks later.
[05:20:09] <steleman> but most managers don't think that way these days most managers think being a manger means getting paid a lot of money for having an easy day at the office
[05:20:33] <steleman> and at the slightest sign of a Disturbance In The Force, push the "FIRE" button
[05:20:44] <Mr_You> my manager, doesn't manage ANYTHING.. I'm not exagerating.. all he does all day is do what his people do.. its completely backwards.
[05:20:55] <Mr_You> he tries to code and what not.
[05:21:02] <steleman> oh boy.
[05:21:05] <Mr_You> he tries to do things without asking people how to do them.
[05:21:20] <Mr_You> its a joke.
[05:21:58] <Mr_You> no one is "running the ship" hehe
[05:22:17] <Mr_You> just a crappy code base and development procedures that are completely broken.
[05:22:22] <Mr_You> ok enough of that.
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[06:09:09] <delewis> heh, I was interviewing at a large logistics, shipping, freight company (starts with an 'F') on Friday, and it's amazing how well everything is documented there. Once the operators submit an escalation for a senior engineer to handle, the senior engineer has to handle it within 2 days. If its not handled by then, emails are generated to him up until 5 days, and after that emails start getting sent up the management chain, a
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[06:10:59] <delewis> of course, some of the things that are worth escalating deal with services that gross around $1 mil/day, so his head would be on a platter if he didn't have it fixed in much, much less than a day
[06:17:30] <Odin-LAP> Hm.
[06:17:45] <Odin-LAP> Not broken management there, then?
[06:17:56] <delewis> definitely not :-)
[06:18:08] <delewis> they'll cut you in a heartbeat if you aren't doing your job.
[06:18:12] * Odin-LAP wonders if there's any labour activism, either...
[06:18:33] <delewis> and everything is nice and segmented, e.g. "This department is responsible for managing these specific services. Don't touch the others"
[06:18:34] <steleman> unions are evil.
[06:18:49] <steleman> Ronald Reagan taugh us that
[06:19:02] <delewis> of course, the power the operators have at their hands is pretty immense, too
[06:19:12] <Error_404> no unions, only intersections of compliments allowed
[06:19:13] <delewis> they've got a very large, and customized OpenView configuration in-house
[06:19:24] <Error_404> demorgan was a filthy communist
[06:19:25] <delewis> thousands of scripts for a variety of services
[06:20:00] <steleman> Error: Ronald Reagan the Founding Father of Modern Conservatism
[06:20:11] <delewis> if an operator gets an alert, they take a look at the in-house database and look at the procedures for fixing the problem, and running the appropriate OVO script of logging in remotely to fix it if they have a clue, otherwise, its escalated.
[06:20:36] <delewis> s/of/or
[06:21:00] <Error_404> steleman: i know who reagan is
[06:21:06] <steleman> Error: LOL
[06:21:09] <Error_404> i was making lame set-theory jokes
[06:21:58] <delewis> it was also interesting to see someone as large as this organization interested in using a lot of Solaris 10 technologies, namely DTrace.
[06:22:01] <steleman> Error: yes but you typed the word "communist". just knowing this word makes you a suspect.
[06:23:14] <Odin-LAP> Error_404: s/is/was/
[06:23:59] <Error_404> oh right, he's dead
[06:24:20] <steleman> was he really a communist ?
[06:24:25] <Odin-LAP> steleman: Typically bourgeoise, to assume that the downtrodden proletarian masses should not even know the name of their saviours!
[06:24:34] <Odin-LAP> delewis: Oh, why?
[06:25:11] <delewis> Odin-LAP: you'd be surprised how many vendors and companies are still doing things the "old way" or migrating to Linux.
[06:25:50] <delewis> seeing a company that has services that gross over a million dollars per day and using (some) of the Solaris 10 technologies, like DTrace, was pretty cool.
[06:26:13] <Odin-LAP> delewis: Mm, most likely, yes. You would've thought organisational inertia would overcome good sense? :p
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[06:35:42] <Mr_You> whats an OVO script?
[06:35:49] <Mr_You> openview?
[06:35:52] <delewis> Mr_You: yeah.
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[09:16:59] <asyd> \_o<
[09:17:48] <trygvis> o/
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[09:42:01] <cmihai> Hm.. having some strange issues with Tarantella on svn_54 client.
[09:42:06] <cmihai> Basically firefox just bails out.
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[09:51:27] <cmihai> I'm having a hard time finding a browser that works. :*(
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[09:51:41] <Stormy> can open solaris nv 54 be installed on a u10?
[09:51:44] <timeless> what's wrong w/ firefox?
[09:52:38] <quasi> Stormy: if S10 installs, then yes (and iirc it does on an U10)
[09:52:47] <Error_404> Stormy: why wouldn't it be?
[09:52:52] <Stormy> because mine won't
[09:53:00] <Stormy> it gets stuck in an infinite loop
[09:53:05] <Stormy> just after it trys to probe the network
[09:53:24] <cmihai> timeless It simply closes.
[09:53:27] <cmihai> Like it's killed.
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[09:53:40] <Stormy> i think i found a bug or something
[09:53:41] <timeless> do you know how to use coreadm and ulimit?
[09:53:46] <Stormy> me?
[09:53:48] <cmihai> Yeah
[09:53:51] <Stormy> no
[09:53:52] <timeless> => cmihai
[09:53:55] <Stormy> o
[09:54:04] <timeless> can you set up one of them so that you get a core from firefox-bin?
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[09:55:20] <cmihai> Just a sec.
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[09:56:12] <cmihai> Ah, java borked..
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[09:57:18] <Stormy> svc.startd: Could not exec() sulogin: No such file or directory
[09:57:19] <Stormy> Requesting System Maintenance Mode
[09:57:19] <Stormy> (See /lib/svc/share/README for more information.)
[09:57:19] <Stormy> Console login services(s) cannot run
[09:57:24] <Stormy> i get that in an infinite loop
[09:58:06] <cmihai> http://paste.lisp.org/display/34482 - Java borks.
[09:59:42] <cmihai> It borks exactly when you login, as I type the last bit of password.
[10:00:35] <dwc-> sounds like you're missing sulogin
[10:00:52] <cmihai> timeless: well, I got the coredump.
[10:00:59] <cmihai> A nice 83MB bundle of joy.
[10:01:08] <dwc-> what? ff wasn't eating up 1gig yet? :)
[10:01:14] <cmihai> Hehe
[10:01:19] <timeless> gimme a few secs
[10:01:24] <cmihai> Well, it only ran the tarantella login thing
[10:01:32] <timeless> pushd /usr/lib/firefox/
[10:01:47] <timeless> ./run-mozilla.sh -g -d dbx ./firefox-bin
[10:01:49] <dwc-> Stormy: are there any errors further up? sulogin should be in /sbin
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[10:02:09] <Stormy> the screen was scrolling in an infinite loop
[10:02:14] <Stormy> i finally stop-a'd it
[10:02:17] <cmihai> Could not find a debugger on your system.
[10:02:29] <Stormy> would you like me to restart it  and see if i can stop it before it scrolls?
[10:02:42] <timeless> cmihai: got lots of web space? and do you trust me? :)
[10:02:55] <dwc-> sure
[10:03:01] <timeless> /opt/SUNWspro/bin/dbx
[10:03:02] <cmihai> timeless: can't upload the core here, I'm at work.
[10:03:07] <Stormy> k one sec
[10:03:14] <dwc-> it sounds sorta like you don't have a valid filesystem
[10:03:19] <timeless> /usr/bin/mdb
[10:03:22] <Stormy> hmm
[10:03:23] <timeless> do you have mdb?
[10:03:26] <Stormy> i just burned this cd
[10:03:27] <dwc-> or it tried to mount the wrong one, or something
[10:03:28] <Stormy> err dvd
[10:03:29] <timeless> you should..., i think
[10:03:32] <dwc-> this is the installer?
[10:03:37] <cmihai> timeless: yep, full install, no Sun Studio.
[10:03:38] <timeless> you can replace -d ...dbx w/ -d mdb
[10:03:41] <cmihai> So I only have mdb.
[10:03:45] <cmihai> Mkey
[10:03:46] <timeless> mdb is fine
[10:03:54] <timeless> i'm not picky :)
[10:03:59] <Stormy> yea
[10:04:04] <dwc-> this might be relevant
[10:04:05] <dwc-> http://www.unixadmintalk.com/f35/solaris-10-install-svc-startd-could-not-exec-sulogin-no-such-file-directory-103489/
[10:04:06] <cmihai> Well, it's your show :)
[10:04:07] <cmihai> >
[10:04:08] <Stormy> open solaris nv 54 sparc
[10:04:29] * timeless just tries to remember how to use this :)
[10:04:59] <Stormy> wow i'd be shocked if my dvd wasn't supported
[10:05:22] <dwc-> me too... I didn't know much was required to support any modern optical drives
[10:05:41] <Stormy> this is a brand new top of the line sony dvd burner
[10:05:57] <dwc-> other than that, check the dvd burn maybe
[10:06:12] <DataStream> Those are 2 words that dont go toghether ....... brand new, and solaris :)
[10:06:20] <dwc-> re-dump it and verify the md5, or try booting it in another machine
[10:06:24] <timeless> soey, i use mdb about monthly
[10:06:31] <DataStream> (unless of course its brend new from sun)
[10:07:05] <Stormy> mine is a DRU-820A
[10:07:22] <Stormy> yea i'll check the md5
[10:07:23] <Stormy> see wtf
[10:07:23] <timeless> ok: $q
[10:07:35] <cmihai> empty newline
[10:07:40] <timeless> ./run-mozilla.sh -g -d mdb ./firefox-bin /path/to/core
[10:07:59] <dwc-> http://www.mail-archive.com/opensolaris-discuss at opensolaris dot org/msg10723.html
[10:08:02] <dwc-> that guy had similar problems
[10:08:40] <cmihai> mdb: core file data for mapping at 7848000 not saved: Bad address
[10:08:44] <cmihai> Did I miss something?
[10:08:50] <cmihai> coredumps are unlimited in ulimit
[10:09:11] <timeless> probably just means the address the code crashed at wasn't valid
[10:09:14] * timeless hopes
[10:09:20] <dwc-> this one also..., different reason
[10:09:21] <dwc-> http://archive.netbsd.se/?ml=smf-discuss&a=2006-07&t=2223854
[10:09:36] <dwc-> but his was on a HD, so it's probably not relevant (unless your dvd burn is bad)
[10:09:39] <cmihai> Loading modules: [ libc.so.1 libuutil.so.1 ld.so.1 ] and $q is still outputs a newline
[10:09:50] <timeless> ::walk thread|::findstack
[10:10:03] <timeless> http://pastebin.mozilla.org
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[10:10:08] <timeless> stick output there and give me a url
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[10:10:34] <timeless> $q ius the way to quit
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[10:11:32] <cmihai> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/2648
[10:12:02] <cmihai> http://paste.lisp.org/display/34482 is what it quit with in the terminal.
[10:12:10] <timeless> that's all java..
[10:12:17] <timeless> give me a bit
[10:12:48] <cmihai> Well, yeah. It bails out right after loading the java stuff when I login (while typing password)
[10:13:40] * timeless tries to remember how to ask which thread crashed
[10:13:43] <timeless> you can also do:
[10:13:52] <timeless> ./run-mozilla.sh -g -d mdb ./firefox-bin
[10:13:53] <timeless> run
[10:13:59] <timeless> then crsh it
[10:14:05] * timeless tries to remember the run verb ($r?)
[10:14:32] <timeless> try
[10:14:33] <timeless> ::status
[10:15:11] <cmihai> http://paste.lisp.org/display/34482#1
[10:15:26] <Stormy> wow damm dwc- i think you might have been right, I haven't had that happen in a while. That sucks o well i'll redownload it tommarow
[10:15:27] <timeless> :r would be run
[10:15:33] <timeless> oh, cute
[10:15:38] <timeless> yeah well, um
[10:16:03] <timeless> yeah, do what it says, complain to sun using the url indicated
[10:16:20] <Tpenta> hey jamesd, nice zfs writeup
[10:16:34] <cmihai> No, look down timeless. The anotation
[10:16:53] <timeless> are those two different things?
[10:17:07] <cmihai> timeless: the first is when I run it from term.
[10:17:14] <DataStream> Tpenta: he's asleep
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[10:17:23] <Tpenta> yea, he can scroll back :)
[10:17:23] <timeless> cmihai: ok
[10:17:24] <cmihai> The second is the annotation I did  with ::status
[10:17:27] <timeless> #
[10:17:29] <timeless> #
[10:17:29] <timeless> stack pointer for thread 1b: f8b0d2a8
[10:17:29] <timeless> #
[10:17:30] <DataStream> heh
[10:17:31] <timeless> [ f8b0d2a8 libc.so.1`_lwp_kill+0x15() ]
[10:17:46] <timeless> cmihai: well, the ouptut in the first is the important bit
[10:17:55] <timeless> java burped and explained what you should do
[10:17:56] * timeless frowns
[10:18:03] <timeless> i should have seen the lwp_kill part :(
[10:18:03] <cmihai> timeless: yes, I'm already on the site\
[10:18:14] <DataStream> Tpenta: seen benr about lately?
[10:18:18] <timeless> anyway, have fun, sorry i can't be iof further assistance
[10:18:25] <cmihai> It was the first paste I gave you ;\. I'm already submiting the bug report to Jaba
[10:18:28] <Tpenta> no i havent and cuddletech is not responding
[10:18:39] <cmihai> timeless: well, I have 2 svn_54 machines, and both do the same thing.
[10:18:42] <timeless> sorry, i must have missed it
[10:18:55] <timeless> install noscript
[10:18:58] <Stormy> DataStream: I think i saw benr last weekend
[10:19:00] <timeless> tell it to disable java :)
[10:19:05] <DataStream> Tpenta: yeah i tried to build Eterm and have an erro i cant get past, so went to grab the package from his site, but the link is down
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[10:19:09] <timeless> you'll be much happier
[10:19:39] <DataStream> Stormy: yeah i spoke to hime about a week ago, but that doesnt help me know :)
[10:19:44] <DataStream> now
[10:19:56] <DataStream> Oh well, ill email him
[10:19:58] <DataStream> thanks
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[10:21:42] * timeless chuckles at http://blogs.sun.com/dom/entry/zfs_v_vxfs_ease
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[10:23:31] <timeless> jamesd: are the graphs on http://blogs.sun.com/dom/entry/zfs_v_vxfs_iozone yours?
[10:24:00] <timeless> because they wrap the Kb fields (1638\n4; 102\n4-204\n8-409\n6-819\n2-163\n84)
[10:24:58] <quasi> timeless: dom != jamesd
[10:25:01] * timeless chuckles at strided read
[10:25:09] <timeless> of course, zfs is one of those exceptions :)
[10:25:18] <timeless> quasi: blah, i never memorize url formats
[10:26:03] * timeless is used to dom being this evil w3 thing
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[10:29:23] <timeless> jamesd: new printers these day come w/ crippled ink cartiidges to forc eyou to pay for the first one sooner :)
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[10:40:41] * timeless wonders what will happen to QFS
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[10:44:48] <dwc-> timeless: also known as "making sure your ink stays clean and fresh so your prints look better!"
[10:45:09] <timeless> dwc: nah, it's just a limit on your first cartiridge
[10:45:15] * timeless sighs
[10:45:22] <timeless> boy my typing is bad this morning
[10:45:35] <timeless> it's an ecological thing
[10:46:00] <dwc-> oh?
[10:46:03] <timeless> they don't want you to keep buying free printers instead of cartridges :)
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[10:48:08] <Error_404> i'm still on my first toner cartridge on this printer i bought over a year ago
[10:48:56] <cmihai> Bah, it's one of those days when servers run out of swap and start killing processes at random ;\
[10:49:05] <Error_404> good old linux
[10:49:28] <cmihai> Nah
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[10:50:15] <Error_404> ?
[10:50:42] <LeftWing> Perhaps it is neither good, nor especially old? =P
[10:50:43] <cmihai> I 3 hours the mail server went down, database server ran out of swap, fileserver lost 2 disks in the RAID-5, Solaris server froze and the Solaris desktop doesn't logon to tarantella. This just isn't my day :)
[10:50:55] <cmihai> LeftWing: HP-UX on PA-RISC actually.
[10:51:06] <LeftWing> cmihai: Ew. =P
[10:51:09] <cmihai> Oracle ate all the RAM. And the swap. And the CPU. And the children.
[10:51:20] <dwc-> tasy children
[10:51:23] <dwc-> *tasty
[10:51:24] <Error_404> and some puppies ? :(
[10:51:34] <cmihai> No, just kittens.
[10:52:06] <raph_ael> hello
[10:52:11] <LeftWing> Pssh, cats.  WHO CARES. =)
[10:52:12] <cmihai> meow.
[10:52:19] <cmihai> I mean, hello.
[10:53:07] <cmihai> Now all I have to do is deal with the angry mob outside yelling "Teh mailserver is down"
[10:53:17] <LeftWing> Migrate them to Exchange.
[10:53:24] <dwc-> then they'll be angry even longer
[10:53:25] <Cyrille> that'll teach them.
[10:53:26] <cmihai> This IS Exchange (SOB)
[10:53:32] <dwc-> hah!
[10:53:33] <LeftWing> cmihai: Haha, wow.
[10:53:37] <LeftWing> Nowhere to go from here. ;P
[10:53:42] <cmihai> And it's not connecting to the DC
[10:53:48] <LeftWing> That's not ideal.
[10:53:53] <timeless> cmihai: google for your domain
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[10:53:58] <cmihai> It was Postfix before... but NOoooo
[10:54:03] <cmihai> They didn't like that.
[10:54:06] <dwc-> lost two disks in 3 hours
[10:54:11] <LeftWing> JSMS is what you want. =)
[10:54:14] <dwc-> environmental problem?
[10:54:17] <cmihai> No idea.
[10:54:24] <cmihai> I have dual UPS and generators.
[10:54:36] <cmihai> As in, UPS on the machine, UPS an all power outlets and power generator on the main UPSes
[10:54:49] <dwc-> or is this one of those ugly things where it didn't get aronud to mentioning that the first disk had failed, until the second one did
[10:54:50] <cmihai> So unless we got a blast of radiation from Russia, I have no idea wtf happened
[10:54:51] <dwc-> heat?
[10:55:02] <cmihai> Nah, room kept at 18C
[10:55:09] <cmihai> 2 146GB SCSI disks failed
[10:55:15] <cmihai> Before the hotswap finished it's job.
[10:55:23] <dwc-> that's kinda warm ...
[10:55:43] <LeftWing> 18C isn't kinda warm. =P
[10:56:02] <dwc-> mid-60s is where hurricane electric kept their ambient temperature ... where we lost 3 disks
[10:56:16] <cmihai> ouch
[10:56:32] <dwc-> the lifespan of hardware goes down as temperature goes up
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[10:57:00] <dwc-> http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/technolo/drivetemp/w2475i03.gif
[10:57:10] <cmihai> Heh
[10:57:47] <LeftWing> dwc-: What's the actual recommended temperature, though?
[10:57:48] <cmihai> So what do you expect me to do, freeze the,?
[10:58:00] <cmihai> I don't have any liquid hidrogen handy
[10:58:16] <dwc-> for the room? depends on how well vented your case/cabinets/etc are
[10:58:37] <LeftWing> dwc-: No, I mean, that graph is only relative to a recommended point -- it doesn't tell you what that point is. =P
[10:58:40] <dwc-> I think max recommended operating temp is 60C, but that's the drive itself
[10:58:49] <dwc-> yea, that depends on the drive itself
[10:58:57] <cmihai> dwc-: drives are at 40-46C
[10:59:09] <cmihai> Temperatures that would hardly kill a human
[10:59:16] <dwc-> measured where?
[10:59:17] <cmihai> Well, would kill a human, but meh.
[10:59:20] <cmihai> On the disk.
[11:01:02] <dwc-> the surface of the disk? is this smart? or ... ?
[11:01:08] <GoodKarm1> meh
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[11:01:50] <dwc-> some of seagate's docs have suggested roughly a 10 deg difference between operational temp and ambient
[11:02:14] <dwc-> I dunno, "the cooler the better"
[11:02:28] <dwc-> I just know that hurricane electric's colo was the only colo I've ever been in where I never needed a sweatshirt
[11:03:12] <dwc-> what's the drive model you've got?
[11:03:49] <dwc-> hm, this hp 300gb u320 15k rpm drive lists an "operating temperature" of 10-35C
[11:04:12] <Stric> so at -5, it will survive 1.6 times longer? :)
[11:05:11] <quasi> dwc-: that's incredibly low - or must be ambient temp
[11:05:54] <dwc-> stric: -5 degrees from "recommended" on hitachi's graph looks like about +10-15% reliability
[11:06:21] <Stric> not -5 from recommended.. -15 from +10 => -5C
[11:06:25] <cmihai>  dwc- no, some sensor in the enclosure
[11:07:01] * dwc- shrugs
[11:07:26] <dwc-> cmihai: depending on the enclosure and drive configuration, that may or may not be very accurate
[11:08:30] <onbot> commit by mp153739:  6225779 kadmin.local -q listprincs should not output warnings to stdout; 6251822 klist will core dump if KRB5CCNAME is set to empty string("export KRB5CCNAME="); 6396614 kadmin's Usage output is incomplete, missing [-w password]]; 6460287 kadmin should use pager for listpols
[11:09:13] <dwc-> anyways, with 15k rpm drives, I don't think 35C is all that low for temperatures around the drives ...
[11:10:39] <quasi> dwc-: around it, no - but very low for inside the drive
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[11:14:01] <dwc-> yea, for inside the drive, that'd be a non-operating drive
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[11:27:43] <Berny> bugger
[11:29:00] <Berny> would anyone happen to know what the default username of the admin user on a prism management card in a L100 would be?
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[11:32:17] <Gr|ffous> greetings all
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[11:48:00] <onbot> commit by mp153739:  4854431 krb5_gss_acquire_cred() does not implement correct GSS_C_NO_NAME semantics; 6290693 krb mech isn't doing the right thing in regards to gss_delete_sec_context and the output token; 6491792 gss_unwrap() is causing duplicate token detection to fail for subsequent calls to gss_unwrap()
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[11:50:12] <cmihai> Any SSGD users? Opera seems to work, but I still can't run anything more then the vt420
[11:50:27] <DataStream> Whats the problem?
[11:51:08] <cmihai> Installed Tarantella on svn_54, client is svn_54 (another machine).
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[11:51:30] <cmihai> First off, Firefox can't login (bails out), but that was a Java issue. Works with Opera, but just isn't starting any applications.
[11:51:45] <DataStream> does 54 have the locked down services question on install?
[11:51:55] <cmihai> Yep
[11:52:04] <cmihai> The whole "trusted solaris" thing?
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[11:52:19] <DataStream> I installed 11/06 2 days and chose to have the system locked down (all services turned off) and i couldnt open any apps either
[11:53:02] <DataStream> when it tried to open an app, it asked for the login details, and wouldnt accept admin details, and even when it did ecept a normal users details, it wouldnt open any apps
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[11:53:18] <DataStream> this is SGD 4.3?
[11:53:21] <cmihai> Yep
[11:53:30] <cmihai> It's like you said.
[11:53:36] <cmihai> It wouldn't accept Admin details.
[11:53:44] <cmihai> It would accept local user details, but then it wouldn't open any apps.
[11:53:51] <cmihai> Stuff like ssh -X works though.
[11:54:30] <DataStream> It was a brand new install, and it only takes 50 mins to reinstall on my server, so i reinstalled sol, with the services open, then installed SGD again, and it works fine now
[11:54:49] <DataStream> so i assume you need to open some servives, although i dont know which ones
[11:54:56] <DataStream> try netservices start
[11:54:57] <cmihai> Reinstall is not an option... could you pastebin your open services list?
[11:57:12] <DataStream> you might want to try makeing a zone and installing SGD in that, that way if it messes up you can just start again
[11:57:16] <DataStream> http://pastebin.com/854175
[11:57:30] <DataStream> thats an opteron machine by the way
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[11:58:02] <DataStream> did netservice start enable wbem and a couple of others?
[11:58:09] <cmihai> No
[11:58:11] <DataStream> mabey its netservices enable
[11:58:16] <DataStream> or something
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[11:59:07] <cmihai> This is odd.
[11:59:22] <cmihai> I just restarted the client machine (X) and now the xterm (vt420) is a separate window
[11:59:29] <cmihai> Still doesn't work
[11:59:30] <DataStream> ok its netservices open
[12:00:15] <DataStream> Yeah, i tried rebooting the sevrer, and restarting SGD
[12:00:15] <cmihai> wbem, sendmail, syslogd
[12:00:17] <DataStream> no luck
[12:02:15] <DataStream> At first i thought it was just a bad install, but it your having the exact same problem, then i think it must ahve something to do with the secure status of 11/06 and above
[12:04:17] <cmihai> Well, ssh -X works but remote X logins don't.
[12:04:33] <cmihai> And I had to enable something for those to work on another machine.. I've just forgotten what.
[12:05:33] <DataStream> I was accecing SGD from a windoze lappy
[12:05:42] <DataStream> so it was all on the SGD machine
[12:05:50] <DataStream> (the problem that is)
[12:06:10] <cmihai> It's accepting from anywhere, but the apps don't work.
[12:06:26] <DataStream> yep, same as here
[12:07:15] <cmihai> Well, gave it a reboot.
[12:07:41] <DataStream> as i said, i tried that, to no effect
[12:08:51] <cmihai> So far this "evaluation" isn't going very well.
[12:09:00] <cmihai> Can't say I feel very much like purchasing a license ;)
[12:09:08] <cmihai> Tried it on a Linux yesterday.
[12:09:17] <cmihai> Didn't even start...
[12:09:42] <DataStream> SGD is a fantastic app
[12:10:14] <cmihai> Yeah, I know... I'm just frustrated :)
[12:10:19] <DataStream> :/
[12:10:59] <DataStream> have you gone though the online services?
[12:11:14] <DataStream> try and make them the same as mine, and give it a retry
[12:11:24] <DataStream> But it would be good of you to file a bug report
[12:11:27] <cmihai> One sec
[12:11:34] <DataStream> seeing as its not a 1 off thing
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[12:14:12] <cmihai> Right. Does it work for you?
[12:14:39] <DataStream> Well i reinstalled solaris with the services open, and it works fine now
[12:14:45] <DataStream> ( installled it in a zone)
[12:15:40] <DataStream> There must be a list one sun.com somwhere that lists all the services they closed in the secure option
[12:16:04] <DataStream> i think only ssh is open by default in the secure option
[12:17:37] <cmihai> Well, it can connect with iexplore from Windows, but I still can't run anything more than that vt420 and even that is in the browser.
[12:17:46] <cmihai> And my services look pretty much like yours.
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[12:18:33] <DataStream> I use FF on win
[12:18:39] <asyd> s 11
[12:18:40] <asyd> oups
[12:18:46] <cmihai> Tried Opera with the same result.
[12:18:55] <DataStream> But i cant really help you any more, i dont know what else to try
[12:19:22] <DataStream> I asked a couple of people about this, but no one had heard of ot
[12:19:23] <DataStream> it
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[12:21:24] <cmihai> Ok then, forget about it.
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[12:21:31] <cmihai> I'll install it in a container.
[12:22:17] <DataStream> I thought about saying to try it in a zone, but i have a feeling that it will be the same as the zone inherits all the services of the global one
[12:22:26] <DataStream> but if it works let me knwo
[12:23:07] <DataStream> But then i may be wrong and it has nothing to do with the services
[12:23:16] <DataStream> it just seems that way
[12:25:22] <DataStream> oh wait, it needs a certain port to be open doesnt it
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[12:27:17] <cmihai> Well, yes
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[12:27:37] <delewis> hmm, never try to do a zfs rollback on a home directory that's been automounted, on say, about 3 systems.
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[12:28:19] <delewis> automountd doesn't seem to like it, and you have to wait for the timeout to occur for a remount of /home/dlewis to occur.
[12:28:22] <delewis> quite messy.
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[13:01:53] <cmihai> DataStream: didn't zones aks about that security thing?
[13:02:06] <cmihai> Trusted solaris whatever?
[13:05:15] <cmihai> I've had just about the same luck installing it in a zone
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[13:14:19] <cmihai> Fuck me
[13:14:22] <cmihai> Power just went out.
[13:16:30] <lasseoe> where did it go.. out for coffee? ;-)
[13:16:41] <sickness> lol
[13:17:12] <Cyrille> <power> brb
[13:17:16] <cmihai> Damn.. power still not back
[13:17:21] <lasseoe> heh
[13:17:26] <cmihai> Time to shutdown the servers :(
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[13:20:46] <cmihai> Years of uptime :(
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[13:21:39] <BadKarma> bummer
[13:21:49] <ttw> anyone know of a way to install a netra without cdrom?  note, i don't have another solaris server avaliable?
[13:21:59] <_syphilis_> ttw: google "solaris jumpstart linux"
[13:22:24] <ttw> syph: thx
[13:22:42] <lasseoe> cmihai: that blows
[13:23:02] <lloy0076> lol
[13:23:19] <lloy0076> Every time someone says "Fuck me", I always think: "What do you look like? ASL?"
[13:23:20] <lasseoe> hope they all come up ok again
[13:23:20] <cmihai> Hm.. nice UPS though.
[13:23:51] <lasseoe> sounds like lloy0076 is an open minded fella
[13:24:04] <cmihai> lasseoe: yeah, most haven't been rebooted in 3 years
[13:24:05] <lloy0076> lasseoe: If that's what they call people like me these days :P
[13:24:09] <sickness> lloy0076: lol, I thing there is definately only male people on this chan :P
[13:24:15] <cmihai> No idea if they'll come back up :)
[13:24:30] <lasseoe> lloy0076: the word "desperate" also springs to mind :-P
[13:24:35] <lloy0076> lol
[13:24:36] <lloy0076> How about: I'm gay.
[13:24:42] * lloy0076 sticks the tongue out
[13:24:57] <lloy0076> Don't all talk at once.
[13:24:59] <sickness> uh, I'd like to know if there are UPSes supported under solaris (for automatic shutdown...)
[13:25:06] <cmihai>  You have 1450 new Mail messages.
[13:25:07] <cmihai> Heh
[13:25:12] <lloy0076> rofl
[13:25:15] <sickness> lloy0076: well, so that's more logic :)
[13:25:15] <lasseoe> lloy0076: heh
[13:25:16] <cmihai> Logged in one of the VMS servers to shut it down
[13:25:21] <cmihai> One with the 10 year uptime
[13:25:34] <lloy0076> 1450 messages seems a lot to read.
[13:26:01] <sickness> cmihai: OMFG, pleaze show it =) like uptime, or, I don't know what's the vms command for that =)
[13:26:24] <_syphilis_> sh sys/noproc
[13:26:28] <cmihai> @UPTIME, I have a script.
[13:26:38] <cmihai> It's already down though :)
[13:26:38] <lloy0076> cmihai: If you can determine its power connection(s) and UPS connections you can shut it down.
[13:26:54] <cmihai> lloy0076: it's a general UPS on the main power sockets
[13:26:55] <BadKarma> yay
[13:28:08] <lloy0076> cmihai: Well, if you get desperate, shut da power station down long enough for the UPS to run out.
[13:28:09] <lloy0076> heh
[13:28:22] <lloy0076> Surely your neighbours would love you.
[13:28:24] <lloy0076> Not.
[13:29:10] <ttw> syphilis: actually go that setup but didn't realise the wanboot would work with NFS (thought it was HTTP based) going to try it now -- thx again
[13:29:30] <BadKarma> heh
[13:29:37] <cmihai> God... it's not back up yet :(
[13:30:14] <lloy0076> cmihai: I have had this policy for about 2500 years now: No interference. No fiddling. The only thing I'll do is fool them into thinking my Son was resurrrected.
[13:30:19] * lloy0076 did I say that?
[13:30:28] <BadKarma> how long is this yet, cmihai
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[13:42:01] <aliquis> If I run format in Solaris for a disk which has these specifications in another OS:
[13:42:02] <aliquis> Disk /dev/sda: 250.0 GB, 250059350016 bytes
[13:42:02] <aliquis> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 30401 cylinders, total 488397168 sectors
[13:42:02] <aliquis> Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
[13:42:53] <aliquis> what shall i type then? I don't know what data and alternate cylinders is and I don't know if I will get a chance to tell the number of heads and that number over there is obviously not the truth ;)
[13:43:08] <_syphilis_> aliquis: type where?
[13:43:18] <aliquis>        1. c6d0 <drive type unknown>
[13:43:18] <aliquis>           /pci@0,0/pci-ide@f/ide@1/cmdk@0,0
[13:43:18] <aliquis> Specify disk (enter its number): Specify disk (enter its number): 1
[13:43:19] <_syphilis_> number of heads doesn't refer to the real number on a modern disk
[13:43:23] <aliquis> AVAILABLE DRIVE TYPES:
[13:43:23] <aliquis>         0. DEFAULT
[13:43:23] <aliquis>         1. other
[13:43:23] <aliquis> Specify disk type (enter its number): 1
[13:43:23] <aliquis> Enter number of data cylinders: 30401
[13:43:25] <aliquis> Enter number of alternate cylinders[2]:
[13:43:28] <aliquis> Enter number of physical cylinders[30403]: ^C
[13:43:29] <aliquis> #
[13:43:46] <aliquis> _syphilis_: But default gives tens of thousands of cylinders and only 2 heads
[13:43:55] <triplah_> _syphilis_: yeah thanks to cruddy BIOS makers :P
[13:44:09] <lasseoe> aliquis: format -> type -> 0
[13:44:09] <aliquis> also for whatever reason now when I disconnected my two 120GB disks solaris took ages to start and format takes a few seconds and so on aswell
[13:44:22] <lasseoe> does tha tnot work ?
[13:44:38] <aliquis> lasseoe: But earlier when I had the 2 other ata disks in i had DEFAULT on both 0 and 1 and other on 2
[13:44:47] <aliquis> lasseoe: So I doubt it's a correct value
[13:44:59] <aliquis> how shall i be able to tell if it works or not? =P
[13:45:38] <lasseoe> aliquis:sorry misread what you pasted - I guess it won't let youauto configure on ATA disks
[13:45:49] <aliquis> it's a sata disc
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[13:46:02] <lasseoe> same difference :)
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[13:46:35] <lasseoe> dunno then - I find Solaris has gotten weird with regards to detecting disk geometry
[13:47:02] <_syphilis_> aliquis: are you following the steps in "adding a disk" in the administration guide?
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[13:47:20] <aliquis> I have three discs I wanna backup, this 200GB ATA of which a little over 100GB is in use, and two 120GB maxtors of which 49 and 38GB is in use. I guess one alternative would be to move everything from one maxtor to the other, and then everything from this 200GB disk to the now empty maxtor, then install linux on the 250GB sata and move all files over there... ;/
[13:47:31] <aliquis> _syphilis_: no ;)
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[13:51:05] <_syphilis_> maybe you should try that?
[13:52:05] <aliquis> yeah, would work if these 99GB of zfs compressed files is less than the 115GB of real space on the 120GB maxtor, but hopefully it is
[13:52:44] <_syphilis_> 'that' = reading the manual
[13:53:33] <aliquis> ah =P
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[14:25:12] <ttw> anyone know how to install opensolaris on a netra without CD installed?  n.b: read the solaris 8 hints but just getting wanboot error messages when trying same from opensolaris ? ? ?
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[14:25:34] <_syphilis_> which opensolaris?  SX:CR?
[14:25:43] <edwardocallaghan> Hi
[14:25:52] <edwardocallaghan> Oh we are on 55 :D
[14:26:04] <richlowe> _syphilis_: are any of the others wanbootable?
[14:26:07] <ttw> syph: not exactly sure, solaris_11 but not sure the build number
[14:26:28] <richlowe> _syphilis_: (as distinct from just booting off the network, obviously)
[14:26:31] <edwardocallaghan> I forgot something; what's brake in cu ?
[14:26:32] <ttw> it's one of the binary builds
[14:26:39] <_syphilis_> edwardocallaghan: ~.
[14:26:48] <_syphilis_> same as ssh, so remember ~~. if you're on ssh too
[14:26:49] <edwardocallaghan> Ah yes thanks
[14:26:51] <richlowe> ~%b
[14:26:58] <_syphilis_> oh, break as in serial break
[14:27:00] <richlowe> ~. is 'exit', not 'send break'
[14:27:00] <_syphilis_> not disconnect :)
[14:27:03] <richlowe> :)
[14:27:17] <ttw> is there a kernel that will boot off NFS ?
[14:27:34] <ttw> ... will try the UFS kernel
[14:29:28] <delewis> uh, that's the only kernel.
[14:29:39] <ttw> ... no,there's a wanboot kernel too
[14:29:55] <_syphilis_> wanboot is not a kernel
[14:29:58] <_syphilis_> it's a boot loader
[14:30:53] <edwardocallaghan> Hi delewis
[14:31:22] <ttw> oh, ok, need an NFS capable boot loader then (though sun boot loader was in openprom)
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[14:32:09] <delewis> ttw: "this ain't Linux"
[14:32:14] <delewis> all of that just kind of works.
[14:32:21] <ttw> *lol*
[14:32:31] <ttw> is that so.  then i can only report that i'm broken
[14:32:54] <delewis> ttw: if it weren't possible, Jumpstarts would also not be possible, and I just got through doing one.
[14:33:07] <richlowe> I suspect you should be looking at the jumpstart instructions, rather than the wanboot instructions.
[14:33:11] <richlowe> or whatever instructions you're actually looking at.
[14:33:34] <ttw> stuggling with both
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[14:34:33] <cmihai> This was NOT a fine day for science
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[14:35:55] <ttw> as far as i can tell solaris_10 && 11 both jumpstart from wanboot -- hence the confusion -- and the hassle
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[14:36:12] <delewis> ttw: no.
[14:36:27] <sickness> ah ha, goddam right, its a beautiful day
[14:36:48] <cmihai> No it's NOT
[14:36:58] <sickness> well, it's a song...
[14:37:00] <cmihai> A 30 minute powerout does NOT make a beautiful day
[14:37:20] <edwardocallaghan> Right I got 'ok' from the PROM, I forget how to tell it to reboot but when it does let me type boot cdrom
[14:37:29] <ttw> well, i've read and re-written the 'setup_install_server' and that's what it appears to do
[14:37:39] <edwardocallaghan> Oh it does it on its own
[14:38:00] <edwardocallaghan> Sorry thanks I worked it out and now I am talking to my self... as you do
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[14:49:52] <edwardocallaghan> See you guys later and thanks
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[15:26:03] <Posixzombie> I want to add the SUNWman packate to a machine on which SUNWman was removed; I had lofi mounted that iso
[15:26:28] <Posixzombie> I can see the there is a folder named SUNWman under /mnt/cdrom
[15:26:43] <Posixzombie> /mnt/cdrom/Solaris 10/products
[15:26:50] <Posixzombie> Now what should I do to add it ?
[15:27:42] <Cyrille> pkgadd -d /mnt/cdrom/Solaris 10/products SUNWman should do the trick.
[15:27:51] <Cyrille> man pkgadd is your friend.
[15:28:18] <Posixzombie> Cyrille. thnks
[15:29:52] <Posixzombie> I get
[15:29:53] <Posixzombie> ld.so.1: pkgadd: fatal: relocation error: file /usr/sbin/pkgadd: symbol zone_get_brand: referenced symbol not found
[15:29:54] <Posixzombie> Killed
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[16:01:04] <whaq> moin
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[16:02:01] <cub> Does Sun trunking software come with solaris 10 ?
[16:02:58] <Cyrille> trunking? Is that how booting is called in the US? ;-)
[16:03:25] <trygvis> no, it's combining several physical network cables into a virtual interface
[16:04:03] <Berny> cub: depends on the nic you have
[16:04:21] <Cyrille> ah I see. Thanks.
[16:04:32] <Berny> cub: for gldv3 nic drivers you can use dladm
[16:04:51] <Berny> for the rest (ge, ce) download suntrunking
[16:07:50] <cub> oh ok, it's ce
[16:08:07] <cub> Berny: are you using it ?
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[16:08:22] <cub> i need to do it for Oracle db
[16:08:46] <cub> so we can use two interconnect cables instead of one interconnect
[16:10:06] <Berny> yes i do
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[16:29:33] <kjetilho> hey, are the current manual pages available somewhere on the web?
[16:29:46] <_syphilis_> docs.sun.com
[16:29:53] <_syphilis_> go to solaris express, it's under 'reference' or so
[16:30:29] <kjetilho> duh, I didn't think to look there, didn't think they'd have "unsupported" stuff.  thanks!
[16:32:13] * trygvis pokes kjetilho
[16:32:31] <_syphilis_> SX is sort-of supported if you pay :)
[16:32:31] <kjetilho> hmm, can't find it, though
[16:32:43] <_syphilis_> hmm, i know it's there, but i never tried to find it
[16:32:46] * _syphilis_ looks
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[16:33:45] <_syphilis_> looks like docs is in shit slow mode again :)
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[16:34:40] <lasseoe> what do you mean "again" ? :)  it's always slow
[16:34:51] <delewis> _syphilis_: 'supported' meaning you can report bugs.
[16:35:03] <_syphilis_> delewis: that's why i said 'sort of'
[16:35:04] <delewis> which you can already do with bugs.opensolaris.org :-)
[16:35:35] <_syphilis_> kjetilho> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/40.17
[16:36:58] <cub> Berny: I'm setting up  nettr -setup -device ....
[16:37:15] <cub> looking for examples on the net now, cuz i dunno what goes in there
[16:37:18] <kjetilho> _syphilis_: wow, you're good!
[16:38:19] <_syphilis_> kjetilho: the magic link is 'browse documentation titles' :)
[16:38:28] <_syphilis_> that lists everything there on one page
[16:39:02] <kjetilho> oh, but that's a humoungous page
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[16:49:38] <Auralis> http://secondlife.com/developers/opensource/  second life client got open sourced
[16:50:07] <mrdeviant> oh joy.
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[16:55:35] <_syphilis_> hmm, does anyone use openpkg on solaris?  how is it?
[16:59:44] <tsoome> why should?
[17:01:06] <cub> Berny, help please
[17:02:43] <quasi> Auralis: so, does it run on solaris?
[17:03:13] <cub> [root@fmcsadb3]$ nettr -setup 5 device=ce policy=1 members=1,4
[17:03:14] <cub> nettr: member option not specified
[17:03:17] <Auralis> quasi: when someone port it
[17:03:21] <cub> anybody know what's wrong w/ that syntax ?
[17:03:32] <cub> trying to set up Sun trunking
[17:03:43] <cub> and that's the syntax the man page is telling me to do
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[17:31:12] <Error_404> good thing SL was opensourced, i was JUST thinking how the one thing solaris lacks, is furry diaper-fetish porn
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[17:33:19] <elektronkind> oh dear god not furries
[17:33:39] <elektronkind> One of the guys in my department... is one of those.
[17:33:44] <Error_404> secondlife seemed like a pretty dumb game to me
[17:33:53] <Error_404> it's like a game if you took out all the fun
[17:33:54] <Cyrille> you forgot to mention giant flying penises.
[17:34:04] <Error_404> right, giant flying penises as well
[17:34:48] <elektronkind> oh the humanity
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[17:42:29] <Odin-LAP> Error_404: Sounds like an interesting project for a psych student or something...
[17:42:44] <Error_404> Odin-LAP: nope, just second life
[17:42:58] <Odin-LAP> Oooh. I know. Re-enact Phil Zimbardo's prison experiment there!
[17:43:49] <Odin-LAP> Error_404: Have a look at why the hell people actually want a *second* life, given how boring their normal one is...
[17:43:52] <Error_404> normal person + anonymity + audience = total fuckwad
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[17:44:29] <Odin-LAP> What about pseudonymity? :p
[17:46:38] <Error_404> ever been in a non-technical IRC channel
[17:46:39] <Error_404> ...
[17:46:40] <Error_404> yeah
[17:47:20] <Odin-LAP> Mmmm ... not really, no. Allegedly technical ones which are constantly off-topic, though...
[17:48:02] <Error_404> yeah, but off topic or not... the sort of people who stumble in here & other technical-oriented channels are at least a little civilized
[17:48:19] <Cyrille> you must be new here ;-)
[17:51:07] <Error_404> I'm an old IRC junkie... trust me, this place is like visiting the queen compared to some of my old hangouts
[17:52:33] <Auralis> <Teal'C>Indeed</Teal'C>
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[19:03:06] <Terinjokes> hey! I'm a n00b at solaris, so can someone please tell me what solaris distro i should try?
[19:03:40] <myrkraverk> Terinjokes: I think EXCR is what most ppl here reccommend
[19:04:06] <Terinjokes> hrm... not on the download page (or is it...)
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[19:04:24] <myrkraverk> (what you should eventually find through the opensolaris.org website, I don't know the precise url)
[19:04:42] <jamesd> there was a slight type its  sxcr  == Solaris Express Community release
[19:05:00] <Terinjokes> also, please note i'm on PPC
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[19:05:13] <myrkraverk> Terinjokes: oh, then I've no idea :P
[19:05:25] <zdzichuBG> there is only one polaris IIRC
[19:05:41] <jamesd> Terinjokes, for now stick with  linux or osx, the ppc port is no where near ready.
[19:06:00] <_syphilis_> AIX ;-)
[19:06:02] <myrkraverk> jamesd: unless he wants to play ;)
[19:06:37] <Terinjokes> jamesd, ok... i'm just about to re-install gentoo, and wanted to give solaris a try (while i had a blank hard drive)
[19:06:46] <jamesd> myrkraverk, did you miss the term...   n00b ...  being a solaris newbie + having an OS that barely boots even on the god chosen platform is not fun.
[19:07:15] <Terinjokes> jamesd: god didn't choose the processor, apple did
[19:07:34] <GoodKarma> get a cab and say to the cabbie "take me to the DMZ!"
[19:07:37] <GoodKarma> err, wrong win
[19:07:39] <jamesd> Terinjokes, i meant "god" being the people doing the solaris port.
[19:08:13] <Terinjokes> i normally call those people 'developers' but i respect your religion :D (no harm done here, I hope...)
[19:09:36] <myrkraverk> jamesd: I have jumped too often into the deep end of the pool to want to expressively forbid someone to do the same
[19:10:16] <myrkraverk> jamesd: starting with "something that works" is always best, but not always possible
[19:10:37] * jamesd is too old, and have also jumped head first into the deep end, usually without proper equipment at hand, so i advise against it.
[19:10:46] <myrkraverk> ;)
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[19:11:33] <dwc-> well, that explains a lot then ;)
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[19:11:53] <jamesd> remembers running  linux kernel 1.0.x on a  386sx 25 (no floating point) with just 5.5MB  and building kernels that took 3 days, and running X
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[19:12:34] <jamesd> with an incredible amount of storage,  40MB shared between   linux and windows 3.1 .
[19:12:49] <myrkraverk> haha ;)
[19:13:53] <Odin-LAP> And this was around the time of the crusades?
[19:14:05] <Odin-LAP> :p
[19:14:30] * myrkraverk once learned a programming language in 2 days to port legacy code from a dialect for which there was no manual (I didn't, at least) to something that would resemble standard compliant code
[19:14:57] <Odin-LAP> Actually, I shouldn't say stuff like that. I remember using a 3.11 machine with a 400 MB HD. :/
[19:15:09] <myrkraverk> I remember it being *fun* to get my first segfault, and then spending days hunting them down and eliminating them (the segfaults)
[19:15:20] <Odin-LAP> myrkraverk: That must've been ... interesting.
[19:16:18] <myrkraverk> Odin-LAP: it was - to a point - at least I now know how long it'll take me to learn a programming language to a point i can use it ;)
[19:16:55] <jamesd> Odin-LAP, this was about 1-2 years after the time that could of killed the linux movement with a simple $7,500 donation.... they could of just given him a  ss10 with dual 50mhz cpus and linux would never of been written.
[19:17:10] <jamesd> er that sun could of killled the linux movement
[19:17:30] <Odin-LAP> could have, I presume? :p
[19:17:35] <jamesd> yeap
[19:18:10] * jamesd has coffee now and promises my typing skills will improve slightly.
[19:18:20] <Odin-LAP> Well, they couldn't predict it would end up with them opening the Solaris source, could they? :p
[19:18:37] <jamesd> nope..
[19:18:38] * Odin-LAP kinda *likes* that particular result of it, actually.
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[19:43:29] <cub> the correct trunking design would require at least 3 NICs involved on the server, right ?  1 for head, leaving 2 for doing load balancing and failover
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[19:47:53] <jamesd> cub, you can do trunking with 2 or more nics... even if one of the two nics fail it will do fail over to the remaining nic.
[19:48:27] <jamesd> of course only certain nics can be trunked but that is changing.
[19:49:17] <cub> jamesd, I have ce1 and ce4 as members, ce1 is head.  I pulled the cable on ce1 and the IP was still accessible from the outside.  So that's right
[19:49:18] <cub> but
[19:49:25] <cub> when I pull ce4, the IP is dead
[19:50:17] <timeless> hrm
[19:50:50] <timeless> someone tossed around a pdf that mnetioned being able to pass a closed file descriptor to a suid application on open solaris
[19:50:51] <timeless> does that sound familiar?
[19:50:56] <cub> make me believe that I'll need 2 NICs to support the head NIC
[19:52:58] <Stric> cache                        buf    buf    buf    memory     alloc alloc
[19:52:58] <Stric> name                        size in use  total    in use   succeed  fail
[19:53:02] <Stric> zio_buf_7168                7168 4294967287    136    974848 106252714     0
[19:53:03] <Stric> whoa
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[20:17:01] <onbot> commit by Eric Schrock:  6393525 vdev_reopen() should verify that it's still the same device; 6414648 zfs allows overlapping devices to be added; 6435943 assertion failed: spare != 0L, file: ../../common/fs/zfs/spa_misc.c; 6436000 import of actively spared device returns EBUSY
[20:17:04] <timeless> hi richlowe
[20:17:12] <timeless> got time for a stupid paranoid question?
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[20:19:20] <timeless> someone tossed around a pdf that mnetioned being able to pass a closed file descriptor to a suid application on open solaris
[20:19:27] <timeless> does that sound familiar?
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[20:27:19] <jlc> how to you get the real and effective user id on a process, solaris 8
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[20:29:57] <dwc-> pcred pid
[20:30:11] <dwc-> oh well, too late
[20:32:00] <delewis> Page Summary                Pages                MB  %Tot
[20:32:00] <delewis> Kernel                     772872              6038   74%
[20:32:03] <delewis> gotta love ZFS. :-)
[20:33:50] <elektronkind> chomp chomp
[20:34:04] <elektronkind> leggo my pageo
[20:35:15] <jamesd> yes, zfs needs to learn how to give up pages at a moments notice... i'm seriously thinking about installing solaris 8 on my blade 1500 with 512MB of ram...   feel free to send me blade 1500 ram to stop this horror from happening.
[20:36:00] <delewis> jamesd: yeah, I haven't seen what ZFS does with its buffers once memory starts getting thin.
[20:36:44] <delewis> this server runs Oracle in a zone, where the tablespaces are on a raidz pool (not exactly optimal, I know, but its for my personal use and I prefer the ZFS snapshots over VxVM snapshots)
[20:37:07] <_syphilis_> delewis: if you're unlucky, it deadlocks ;-)
[20:37:12] <jamesd> delewis, when i try to something interactive on the blade, it just sits there chucking blocks in and out, it takes about 30-45 seconds to get the shell to respond to a caridge return
[20:37:15] <_syphilis_> (although i never saw this one in production so far)
[20:37:40] <delewis> well, what's interesting is the only zpool I have is *nowhere* near 6GB (more or less 1GB)
[20:37:53] <delewis> and I doubt all the kernel structures are 5-6GB together :-)
[20:38:29] <jamesd> i would file a bug report and post to zfs-discuss, i'm sure they would be interested in that case, because that just seems fubar.
[20:38:56] <delewis> jamesd: I think they'll tell you the fix will be "Don't use ZFS on a system with 512MB and expect performance"
[20:39:19] <delewis> or rather "this isn't a bug" :-)
[20:39:42] <jamesd> delewis, yeah but your case with a 1GB pool eaching 7GB of ram... seems broken
[20:39:51] <delewis> jamesd: indeed..
[20:39:56] <richlowe> delewis: debug kernel?
[20:39:57] <jamesd> s'/eaching/eating/
[20:40:06] <delewis> actually, let me check my pools real quick
[20:40:23] <delewis> ok, maybe not as bad as I thought
[20:40:40] <delewis> between the zone install and the Oracle install+tablespace, the export dataset is around 4GB
[20:40:49] <delewis> that still seems a bit high.
[20:41:14] <delewis> that leaves a difference of 2GB, and I still doubt the kernel data structures are that large even.
[20:42:07] <delewis> is there a nice way to remove the ZFS caches statistics, and just see how big the kernel and its data structures are?
[20:42:15] * delewis isn't up on mdb-fu
[20:42:36] <_syphilis_> possibly it's doing inefficient caching - reads of 70K stored in 128K kmem blocks, e.g.?
[20:42:44] <delewis> _syphilis_: ah, that's possible.
[20:43:07] <_syphilis_> i don't know if that's even possible with how zfs works, but it seems like a likely explanation
[20:43:25] <delewis> _syphilis_: given how ZFS does dynamic block sizes, seems plausible.
[20:43:37] <sommerfeld> _syphilis_: yes, that seems very plausible.
[20:43:47] <richlowe> arc::print -dt size Will give you the size of the ARC
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[21:04:01] <onbot> commit by Ric Aleshire:  6503395 TX boot hangs on nfs mounts
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[21:17:13] <pikapika> hello
[21:17:26] <hspaans> g'day
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[21:53:30] <illsci> hey I have a process that after it receives a kill -9  exits but the process becomes defunct and hangs out for about 900 seconds
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[21:53:50] <illsci> I haven't ever used dtrace but I was wondering if that might help me figure out what the system is doing durring  this time
[21:54:05] <illsci> it puts the cpu at 100% as well while its doign this
[21:54:10] <_william_> hi all
[21:54:59] <delewis> illsci: DTrace pretty much allows you to see anything that's going on inside the system; however, you might try using truss first, rather than whipping out some dtrace-fu.
[21:55:13] <illsci> I ran truss first
[21:55:19] <delewis> no luck?
[21:55:29] <illsci> i have the output of that... thats how i saw that it did actually kill the process
[21:55:35] <delewis> you might try doing a prstat -m, too, to see where the process is spending its time at.
[21:55:38] <illsci> well it kills my truss session
[21:55:50] <illsci> it ends and the process goes defunct
[21:55:58] <illsci> but it doesnt go away for another 900 seconds
[21:56:05] <delewis> does it return an exit code/status?
[21:56:10] <illsci> which really sucks because im tracking pid for some other stuff
[21:56:29] <illsci> im not sure...
[21:58:06] <lasseoe> hrmm
[21:58:14] <illsci> give me one sec
[21:58:15] <lasseoe> how the fsck do I snoop inter-zone traffic ?
[21:58:34] <delewis> lasseoe: I don't think its possible at the moment
[21:58:42] <jamesd> illsci, yes you can use dtrace to figure out what it is doing at this point...     timer-1234hz  / pid== <pid of the app you are interested in>/   {  @[stack()] = count(); }
[21:58:44] <lasseoe> delewis: doh.. that sucks :(
[21:58:45] <delewis> I remember hearing something about it awhile ago and trying it myself.
[21:58:49] <delewis> but I could be wrong :-)
[21:58:53] <quasi> lasseoe: in the relevant zones?
[21:59:06] <lasseoe> quasi: I want to snoop traffic between two zones
[21:59:16] <quasi> lasseoe: so snoop on both ends
[21:59:17] <lasseoe> don't care how
[21:59:19] <delewis> actually, I might've just tried snooping from the local zone.
[21:59:24] <delewis> you should be able to do it from the global zone
[21:59:32] <lasseoe> I see nothing when I snoop
[21:59:37] <_syphilis_> i don't believe you can snoop any local traffic
[21:59:41] <illsci> here is what truss showed me
[21:59:45] <illsci> http://pastebin.com/854589
[21:59:50] <delewis> _syphilis_: yeah, you can't for various architectural reasons
[21:59:55] <_syphilis_> it doesn't go far enough down the physical interface to be seen by snoop
[21:59:58] <quasi> you probably miss it in the global zone because it goes over loopback
[22:00:03] <delewis> namely, you don't have access to the actual device to do promiscuous mode.
[22:00:04] <lasseoe> quasi: yeah
[22:00:30] <quasi> lasseoe: but iirc, you can grant raw access to the nic in a zone so that you can snoop there
[22:00:30] <_syphilis_> delewis: snoop doesn't need promisc for traffic to/from the local system...
[22:00:39] <lasseoe> quasi: been there, done that, didn't help :)
[22:00:48] <lasseoe> it still snoops at device level, so there's no gain
[22:00:55] <quasi> lasseoe: damn
[22:01:15] <lasseoe> yeah I just spent ages installing a box with S10U3 to get access to that feature
[22:01:26] <lasseoe> oh well
[22:01:27] <quasi> and then it doesn't work?
[22:01:37] <lasseoe> nope still don't see any zone traffic
[22:01:51] <lasseoe> it never hits the actual interface
[22:02:10] <lasseoe> hrm
[22:04:01] <lasseoe> I don't even see anything if I snoop traffic Global <-> Non-Global
[22:04:31] <_syphilis_> afaik you can't snoop any device that doesn't go on the wire
[22:04:36] <_syphilis_> s/device/traffic/
[22:04:41] <lasseoe> so it seems
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[22:05:19] <_syphilis_> can be annoying at times, i wish they'd fix it :) wonder if it's related to how you can't ipf between zones, i think that was being worked on
[22:05:26] <quasi> dtrace seems to be the way to go then ... or perhaps something nasty routing towards an outside gw
[22:05:36] <quasi> _syphilis_: yeah
[22:07:07] <lasseoe> hrmm
[22:07:38] <lasseoe> http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5075493&tstart=75
[22:10:11] <quasi> does it work?
[22:11:44] <lasseoe> dunno
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[22:12:32] <onbot> commit by sl108498:  6510729 assertion failed: zone->zone_max_swap >= swap, file: ../../common/os/rctl.c, line: 2748
[22:15:25] <quasi> lasseoe: it says (warning) bad packet header in capture file offset 0: length=0 for me
[22:15:35] <_syphilis_> quasi: the post says that's normal
[22:16:50] <quasi> _syphilis_: so it does, but still doesn't give me output
[22:17:36] <lasseoe> I may install the app on a different server, that solves the problem
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[22:22:01] <lasseoe> pain in the xxxx.
[22:28:02] <onbot> commit by gw25295:  6510448 zfs_unshare_iscsi() gives bogus error message when libiscsitgt cannot be opened or is missing
[22:35:24] <Peanut> Wow.. live commit messages by onbot? Is that new? :)
[22:35:35] <lasseoe> been around for what.. a month
[22:35:36] <_syphilis_> been there a couple of months
[22:35:42] <Tpenta> morning folks
[22:36:10] <jamesd> hi Tpenta
[22:36:30] <Tpenta> hi james, nice zfs blogs
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[22:38:25] <jamesd> Tpenta, if you mean  zfs for home? its an old entry that blogger decided needed to get put back on the rss feed because i turned off comments thanks to  comment spam beginning to ship up.
[22:38:38] <Tpenta> ahh
[22:38:51] <Tpenta> i thought some of the comments like "it's not in solaris yet" were a bit strange
[22:39:16] <zdzichuBG> using raidtab in linux is strange
[22:39:40] <zdzichuBG> there is mdadm for softraid for some 4 years now
[22:39:51] <hspaans> don't swear please
[22:40:28] <sahafeez> boy, i cannot wait to get me a windows home server ;)
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[22:42:36] <rodrickbrown> why would a library have a undef reference for a symbol name?
[22:42:48] <_syphilis_> rodrickbrown: because it needs to link to another library
[22:42:51] <rodrickbrown> the depenancy lib is there
[22:43:06] <_syphilis_> are they archive (static) libraries?
[22:43:27] <rodrickbrown> yeah
[22:43:33] <rodrickbrown> static/dynamic exists
[22:43:54] <_syphilis_> if you're using static explicitly you need to put them in the right order.. although i forget which way round
[22:44:03] <_syphilis_> (i think the library providing the symbol must be after the one that uses it)
[22:44:14] <rodrickbrown> humm I see
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[22:48:36] <rodrickbrown> man this is such a pain
[22:48:42] <rodrickbrown> no matter what the order same outcome.
[22:48:43] <rodrickbrown> libaprutil-1.so.0: symbol sqlite_freemem: referenced symbol not found
[22:49:10] <rodrickbrown> [345]   |         0|       0|FUNC |GLOB |0    |UNDEF  |sqlite_freemem
[22:49:23] <rodrickbrown> no clue why yet libsql is all there and dandy
[22:49:28] <_syphilis_> libsqlite has that symbol?
[22:50:03] <rodrickbrown> the static or dynamic lib?
[22:50:08] <richlowe> sqlite3 doesn't appear to.
[22:50:32] <rodrickbrown> humm yeah your right
[22:51:11] <_syphilis_> iirc, all the sqlite symbols should be named sqlite3<something> and the header has a lot of #defines to the right symbols for sqlite<foo>
[22:52:39] <rodrickbrown> so they are but this apr lib is looking for sqlite_freemem
[22:52:43] <rodrickbrown> which clearly dont exists
[22:52:50] <_syphilis_> maybe it wants a different version of sqlite
[22:52:55] <rodrickbrown> this sucks this is why I hate using sunfreeware do they ever test this stuff
[22:53:06] <rodrickbrown> the docs say sqlite3
[22:53:11] <rodrickbrown> must be a glitch some where
[22:53:54] <DataStream> In the matrix?
[22:54:26] <_syphilis_> i just started my own package repository, easier than messing with everyone else's stuff ;-)
[22:55:40] <hspaans> btw someone already ported the debian dh-make-perl script to Solaris?
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[22:55:55] <agliodbs> hey, I have a solaris10 server which is out of disk space
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[22:56:03] <agliodbs> I'm trying to find out what ate the disk space
[22:56:29] <agliodbs> what's the easiest way to do this?
[22:56:31] <jamesd> agliodbs,   cd / ; du -sk  | sort -n
[22:56:31] <quasi> agliodbs: any particular filesystem that is full?
[22:57:12] <agliodbs> quasi: don't know yet
[22:57:27] <agliodbs> I have to say, I'm really missing the -h options
[22:57:28] <hspaans> df -k should fix that
[22:58:02] <quasi> agliodbs: du -sh should work as does df -h
[22:59:11] <boyd> Morning, all
[22:59:32] <onbot> commit by Vikram Hegde:  6462687 transient reboots don't properly update grub menu
[22:59:44] <DataStream> Thanks for the tip!!
[23:00:26] * boyd grumbles about why setup_install_server takes so long to decide if there is enough space to copy the DVD image into a filesystem with 120GB free
[23:00:35] <AbeFroman> seriously
[23:00:50] <agliodbs> hmmmm ... that's odd
[23:00:56] <agliodbs> seems to be plenty of space
[23:01:04] <agliodbs> hold on, let me paste
[23:01:15] <agliodbs> (paste site)
[23:01:17] <boyd> Oh, it fits... it just takes a long time to decide that it fits.
[23:01:30] <quasi> boyd: I think it looks through all the files first to guess how much space it needs
[23:02:07] <DataStream> agliodbs: check the inode count
[23:02:14] <boyd> quasi: I think it needs a heuristic... If there is more than 1000% of the size of a DVD free it should just do it :)
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[23:02:40] <quasi> boyd: I don't disagree on that at all
[23:03:25] <agliodbs> ah, no, I misunderstood
[23:03:32] <agliodbs> the "used" column is marked "capacity"
[23:03:44] <agliodbs> looks like / is in fack down to < 1GB
[23:03:57] <agliodbs> I'm confused about the partitioning of this box, though
[23:04:03] <agliodbs> I'd better contact the person who set it up
[23:04:35] <agliodbs> 80% of the disk space is assigned to etc/svc/volatile
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[23:05:20] <agliodbs> like, 3/4 of the disk space on the machine is swap space
[23:05:23] <agliodbs> I don't get it
[23:05:31] <quasi> ignore the etc/svc/volatile line
[23:05:53] <sommerfeld> /etc/svc/volatile is a tmpfs
[23:06:32] <agliodbs> ah
[23:06:49] <sommerfeld> (just like /tmp and /var/run)
[23:06:56] <agliodbs> heh, can you tell that I'm just over from Linux?
[23:08:09] <agliodbs> http://www.privatepaste.com/4f9y3fShNI
[23:08:31] <sommerfeld> /etc/svc/volatile is used early in SMF startup when it needs some place to write things before it has its act far enough together to mount /var and thus /var/run
[23:08:55] <hspaans> agliodbs: your home is on / isn't it? ;-)
[23:09:05] <agliodbs> yep
[23:09:14] <hspaans> remove the pr0n ;-)
[23:09:17] <agliodbs> and I'm seeing that /export is 1/2 the filesystem ...
[23:09:56] <quasi> agliodbs: probably some users homedir then
[23:09:59] <jamesd> move  /export and /opt  to seperate filesystems,  if possible...
[23:10:15] <hspaans> so then you did a SUNWCall install most likely and hten 1/2 for /export seems correct
[23:10:23] <jamesd> both can live quite nicely in a zfs filesystem
[23:10:31] <agliodbs> the system runs a daily build tese, which looks like it's not deleting its files
[23:10:47] <sommerfeld> yup.   best to get actual data out of "/".
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[23:10:56] <Tpenta> good afternoon bill, happy new year
[23:10:57] <hspaans> jamesd: /opt can be on zfs? no patching issues there?
[23:11:07] <sommerfeld> not sure why /var is split off; generally I let that live in "/" (but move crash dumps into ZFS space)
[23:11:24] <jamesd> hspaans, i haven't had any problems with it...
[23:11:29] <sommerfeld> Tpenta: and happy new year to you as well..
[23:11:32] <jmcp> sommerfeld: used to be so that logfiles et al didn't screw up your /
[23:11:32] <quasi> sommerfeld: really? I generally always split off /var
[23:11:33] <jmcp> hi bill
[23:11:52] <sommerfeld> jmcp: how was your new years in New York experience?
[23:11:57] <jmcp> interesting!
[23:12:13] <hspaans> jamesd: interesting, seems time to check it out then ;-)
[23:12:16] <jmcp> we were in Times Square on NYE .... at 12:30 pm, trying to walk 1 block to get to a souvenir shop
[23:12:17] <sommerfeld> quasi: logadm seems to keep it under control.
[23:12:26] <jamesd> spliting off /var on a solaris box is dangerous especially for newbies who don't relize that  solaris package and patch managerment can be bloody pigs and never allocate enough space for it.
[23:12:36] <jmcp> it took us 30 minutes to go that block so we gave up. apart from that it was great
[23:12:43] <agliodbs> sommerfeld: well, we need to overhaul the machine anyway, and set it up with some zones
[23:12:46] <sommerfeld> jmcp: did you find a place to watch the Ashes?
[23:12:50] <agliodbs> it's supposed to be a performance test box
[23:12:53] <quasi> sommerfeld: as long as you remember - and I've seen sendmail go bonkers more than enough to not take the chance
[23:13:22] <jmcp> sommerfeld: turned out that we were too busy being tourists. We seemed to stick mainly to the west side of Manhattan too, and the pubs that you gave me pointers to were all on the east
[23:13:46] <sommerfeld> quasi: the internet-facing systems I run use postfix rather than sendmail :-)
[23:14:06] <quasi> sommerfeld: I wouldn't make it listen on outside interfaces
[23:14:22] <sommerfeld> quasi: Kinda hard to get email that way
[23:14:54] <quasi> sommerfeld: outgoing mail went into loops a couple of time with sol 9 upgrades
[23:15:18] <sommerfeld> jmcp: And with respect to taking 30 minutes to move a block, I had a similar experience yesterday attempting to leave a stadium...
[23:15:35] <quasi> sommerfeld: but until sun officially supports postfix, it is hard to convince $customers to switch
[23:16:14] <hspaans> and postfix will never be supported by Sun or the license must change  :(
[23:16:21] <jmcp> sommerfeld: we probably went at the wrong time of year to avoid crowds and queues
[23:16:29] <sommerfeld> jmcp: That you did!
[23:16:44] <jmcp> apparently NYC had 44 million visitors last year
[23:16:55] <jmcp> makes Sydney look like a sleepy country town
[23:18:05] * hspaans loves sleepy country towns with a beach
[23:18:31] <Odin-LAP> jmcp: Isn't Australia a country of sleepy country towns? :p
[23:19:00] <Odin-LAP> That'd be relaxing, actually. A whole country full of those. Hmmm...
[23:19:06] <jmcp> Odin-LAP: Sydney people (note, I am not one) don't think so
[23:19:33] <Odin-LAP> jmcp: What about other Australia people? :p
[23:19:41] <AbeFroman> what'd bill hicks say... million square foot apartments with a carpet of beer caps?
[23:19:49] <jmcp> Odin-LAP: I don't get out much
[23:20:18] <Odin-LAP> jmcp: So you don't know? Hm. Unfortunate.
[23:20:25] <hspaans> btw how are the Sun jobs in .au and/or .nz?
[23:20:39] <jmcp> the jobs are pretty good
[23:21:16] <quasi> there seems to be a fair number of solaris jobs open in .au
[23:21:18] <Odin-LAP> jmcp: Mind, a country that hardly knows what snow is ... that's a poor country. :p
[23:22:02] <silk> Odin, I think you would be surprised how much Snow .au can get
[23:22:07] <silk> (in a goood year :) )
[23:22:22] <lasseoe> the kind you get from Columbia? ;-)
[23:22:29] * Odin-LAP thinks you might be surprised how little Iceland gets in a bad one...
[23:22:40] <hspaans> jmcp, quasi: hmm tempting
[23:22:59] <jmcp> lasseoe: not as such, no
[23:23:40] <sommerfeld> NYC makes most metro areas look like sleepy country towns.
[23:25:27] <sommerfeld> (Tokyo being a notable exception)
[23:25:54] <hspaans> tokyo makes nyc look like a sleep country town? ;-)
[23:26:12] <jmcp> ditto for Beijing
[23:26:22] <quasi> hspaans: I see quite a few of them on bloglines by having a blog search for solaris
[23:28:41] <sommerfeld> hspaans: no, not that either :-)
[23:28:41] <hspaans> maybe its time to visit the family again in .nz and do a D-tour to .au to check it out
[23:30:04] <hspaans> sommerfeld: but the main question remains do they have coffeeshops? ;-)
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[23:40:57] <sahafeez> it really sucks when there is an irc channel for something and no one answers you
[23:41:06] <sahafeez> not talking about this channel
[23:44:42] <jmcp> sahafeez: yeah, you can't shut us up sometimes :)
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[23:45:39] <sahafeez> true. now if i could just wake up the people in amavis as i am beating my head against an issue and there code/setup is quite messy
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[23:49:49] <hspaans> sahafeez: amavisd-new?
[23:50:17] <sahafeez> hspaans: yes
[23:51:18] <hspaans> sahafeez: which issue?
[23:51:31] <_syphilis_> is there a way to "restart" an interface's ipv6 config, without affecting v4?  so the system will reconfigure the interface as if it were booting?
[23:51:34] <sahafeez> let a banned file thru without jumping thu hoops
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[23:53:36] <hspaans> sahafeez:
[23:53:36] <hspaans> $final_banned_destiny     = D_PASS;
[23:53:36] <hspaans> and make $banned_filename_re empty. Both in amavisd.conf
[23:53:46] <hspaans> !lart gaim
[23:53:51] <sahafeez> yes that will allow all files thru which is bad
[23:54:34] <hspaans> no it will same you from problems
[23:55:07] <sahafeez> hspaans: i am looking for an exception because amavis tags all primavara files as the same as .exe and banneds them.
[23:55:25] <sahafeez> hspaans; how does letting all crap thru save me?
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[23:58:21] <hspaans> sahafeez: filtering based on file-extensions isn't wise
[23:58:56] <sahafeez> hspaans: in this case it more then that. there is no rule for the .stx - it sees it as an exe BANNED (multipart/mixed | message/rfc822 | multipart/mixed | application/octet-stream,.exe,.exe-ms,Update Mar 15 06 w 30Jul05 TargetwoActuals(16).STX)
[23:59:50] <sahafeez> hspaans: the filter is the default. no executables. it has tagged a file as that is not.





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