[00:00:30] <sommerfeld> bah.  autoconfiscation.
[00:00:36] <nrubsig> alanc: no meta-modularisation where each file has it's own package, README, documentation, md5 checksum file ?
[00:01:23] <nrubsig> alanc: hint: autoconf can run much faster... :-)
[00:02:20] * nrubsig 's smile is threatening to seperate nrubsig's head in the middle...
[00:03:05] <nrubsig> oh
[00:03:06] <nrubsig> cool
[00:03:18] <nrubsig> patch to enable posix_spawn() for bash
[00:04:04] <nrubsig> poor fellows, did the same mistake we did (no |posix_spawnattr_setflags()|)
[00:04:37] <alanc> you mean if solaris had a bourne-style shell with lots of builtins?
[00:04:49] <alanc> I wonder who would do that...
[00:04:53] <nrubsig> no, no
[00:05:04] <nrubsig> just a patch to use posix_spawn()
[00:05:26] <nrubsig> problem is that Solaris mandatory needs |posix_spawnattr_setflags()| for the process group
[00:05:36] <nrubsig> if you do not set it you get weired signal problems.
[00:05:50] <nrubsig> and things like /usr/bin/less hang.
[00:06:10] <nrubsig> Linux works (by violating the POSIX spec)
[00:06:26] <alanc> I played a bit with a patch to use posix_spawn() instead of fork() in Xorg but didn't have time to finish it
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[00:06:47] <nrubsig> alanc: Ok, remeber to use |posix_spawnattr_setflags()| if you set any attributes.
[00:07:02] <nrubsig> otheriwse you end in a debugging hell which is NOT nice.
[00:07:32] <wesw> rats.  ZFS found another bum drive! <but thanks for the early warning!>
[00:07:53] <alanc> well the place I was using it is already a nasty little corner - calling fork/exec from a sigsegv signal handler to exec pstack on the Xorg server to record the backtrace in the log file when crashing
[00:08:25] <nrubsig> erm
[00:08:42] <nrubsig> alanc: why don't you use an alternative stack for the signal handler ?
[00:08:53] <nrubsig> less painfull
[00:09:18] <alanc> not sure how that would help
[00:11:23] <dlg> ugh
[00:11:38] <dlg> if you're doing more than setting a flag in a signal handler then you're in for pain
[00:12:35] <alanc> yeah, but by the time you've hit SIGSEGV you're in for pain already, and this is just an aid to collect debugging data before closing all the devices and exiting
[00:13:06] <dlg> cant get a core?
[00:13:21] <dlg> or run it in a debugger?
[00:13:29] <alanc> believe me, in the general case, I know the pain - all the bugs we get from people trying to call back into libX11 from their signal handlers and complaining that sometimes it deadlocks
[00:13:51] <sommerfeld> alanc: ick.  roughly equivalent to conducting exploratory surgery on yourself.
[00:13:52] <alanc> Xorg is setid, so cores are disabled by default
[00:14:05] <sommerfeld> that's what coreadm(1m) is for.
[00:14:18] <dlg> ah, X
[00:14:23] <dlg> i love how its screwed us all
[00:14:45] <alanc> coreadm & debuggers are good when you know in advance you're going to crash, unfortunately, our users are usually caught by surprise
[00:15:46] <dlg> its x, that shouldnt be a surprise
[00:16:08] <alanc> and walkcontext/printstack don't show local symbols, which is why we switched to exec'ing pstack on ourselves
[00:17:04] <alanc> it's been useful a number of times when users report crashes they don't have cores for
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[00:38:21] <_syphilis_> what's this *.nos stuff in S10 downloads?
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[00:43:22] <dlg> nitrous oxide
[00:43:24] <dlg> it makes it faster
[00:44:12] <PerterB> failing that you can just sniff it and laugh at the situation
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[00:49:46] <onbot> commit by bm42561:  6503214 system panic during configure xsb in mc-opl:mc_prepare_dimmlist()
[00:52:27] <Peanut> alanc: since you sound like you know a bit or two about X and Solaris, would you mind 2 short questions?
[00:52:48] <alanc> sure
[00:53:19] <Peanut> thanks.. first, looking for a new laptop to run opensolaris on - any chance of having useful opengl on e.g. a macbook?
[00:53:58] <alanc> nvidia graphics is the best choice for opengl right now, intel graphics second - ati not an option
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[00:54:17] <alanc> (well, ati "not yet")
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[00:54:40] <alanc> I don't remember which mac models are ati vs intel
[00:54:55] <Peanut> Hmm.. no macbook pro then :)
[00:55:22] <alanc> the Solaris DRI team is starting to work on ATI DRI now that Intel DRI is done, but it will be a bit still
[00:55:23] <Peanut> regular macbook: Intel GMA950. Pro: ATI Mobility Radeon X1600.
[00:55:52] <alanc> oh, and Radeon X1600 is currently filed under "over ATI's dead body (or at least those of their lawyers)"
[00:56:09] <Peanut> Good.. you just saved me a whole lot of money, I guess ;-)
[00:56:10] <alanc> we'll see if AMD gets any more open-source friendly or not
[00:56:30] <_syphilis_> alanc: even for the unaccelerated parts?
[00:56:33] <alanc> yes
[00:56:38] <_syphilis_> that's lame
[00:56:52] <hali> thats just silly... i can only see benefits from ati's side when it comes to driver support ... they just want to sell hardware... and the more uses there is for the hardware....
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[00:57:10] <Peanut> Other question - will Solaris 10 ever get beyond gnome 2.6? I'm being hit by a bug that is fixed somewhere around 2.9/2.10.
[00:57:18] <alanc> Xorg has been waiting over 6 months for ATI to allow releasing the 2D driver for X1300/1600/etc. - it's written, but just needs legal clearance
[00:57:50] <alanc> you can probably run completely unaccelerated VESA in a pinch on an x1600, but it will be missing many features
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[00:59:00] <alanc> Peanut: good question - they've gone back and forth several times - right now, they're leaning towards "No - use Nevada if you want new GNOME", but could change their minds at some point
[00:59:31] <alanc> Gman would of course be a better person to ask about that if he was around
[00:59:51] <Peanut> Can't put nevada on the production boxen, alas :)
[01:00:07] <Peanut> Ok, I'll keep that in mind.
[01:00:30] <alanc> hali: well there is the whole current bit going around about Vista certfication requiring vendors to keep hardware details a secret - don't know how real that is or if it's playing a part at all or not
[01:01:39] <Auralis> it is real, its to prevent their drm shit to be cracked to easily
[01:01:48] <alanc> sounds more plausible than "ATI had to agree to kill open source drivers to get the Xbox contract from Microsoft" that was the previous conspiracy theory
[01:02:05] <hali> those bastards
[01:02:41] <Peanut> Yeah, PNG's essay was a bit of an eye-opener.
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[02:33:59] <_syphilis_> hmm, seeing an odd thing where asvc_t in iostat becomes very high (>500) for a couple of seconds and no i/o occurs.  i'm not sure it's actually a problem.. but what might cause that?
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[02:34:58] <Doc> no IO, or just very little IO?
[02:36:19] <_syphilis_>     r/s    w/s   Mr/s   Mw/s wait actv wsvc_t asvc_t  %w  %b device
[02:36:22] <_syphilis_>     2.0    0.0    0.0    0.0  0.0  2.8    0.0 1422.5   0 100 c3t0d0
[02:36:41] <_syphilis_> some sort of sync/flush request?
[02:37:06] <Doc> not if you've got 100% busy
[02:37:30] <Doc> if it's just on one disk, it's probably a disk on the way out (having to re-try the read at the disk level a few times before it works)
[02:38:00] <_syphilis_> it's a raid array.. it reported a (seemingly non-fatal) media error a couple of days ago, but nothing since.  maybe that's the cause though
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[03:59:12] <Gr|ffous> hi all
[03:59:19] <Error_404> yo
[04:00:15] <Gr|ffous> hey error, what are you up to?
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[04:10:52] <Error_404> not much
[04:11:01] <Error_404> reading some java server faces documentation
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[04:11:22] <dwc-> java's making funny faces at you?
[04:11:28] <Error_404> evidently
[04:11:38] <Error_404> it also thinks it's fat and won't take any cookies
[04:12:04] <Gr|ffous> hehe
[04:12:07] <dwc-> maybe they're the wrong flavor
[04:12:10] <Error_404> it is pretty bloated, but there's just more of it to love
[04:12:32] <Error_404> still, it's insecure that I'll run off with that Ruby tramp
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[04:38:57] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: ping!
[04:40:20] * nrubsig sends Jenny Greenteeth after sommerfeld to get him here...
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[04:42:21] * nrubsig wonders whether sommerfeld had an iron pan to defeat himself against Jenny...
[04:42:28] <nrubsig> s/had/has/
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[04:43:10] <Nater> still doesn't work ... hrm maybe i'll just wait for hte media kit from Sun Microsystems
[04:47:16] <nrubsig> Does anyknow know whether the aligments maps just align the address space or consume real space by padding data up to the specified alignment ?
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[04:49:37] <Error_404> IIRC it eats up actual memory page space
[04:50:00] <Error_404> so align your structs properly
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[04:57:35] <nrubsig> aggrrgllll
[04:57:43] <nrubsig> more posix_spawn() madness ahead.
[04:58:05] <nrubsig> Reminder for my next life: Demand payment for this pain.
[04:59:03] <Error_404> what's wrong with posix_spawn() ?
[04:59:15] <nrubsig> nothing except the listed two bugs.
[04:59:20] <nrubsig> but that is not the problem
[05:00:08] <nrubsig> yesterdays problem was that we did not set a flag via |posix_spawnattr_set_flag()| which caused the problem that the process group was not set for children
[05:00:13] <nrubsig> with horrible effects
[05:00:58] <nrubsig> job control defunct, things like $ ls -l | less # caused the end of the chain to hang etc., signal issues and stty behaving madly.
[05:01:23] <nrubsig> suprisingly i386 was more (visibly) affected than SPARC
[05:02:22] <nrubsig> now job control works and I can (again) define traps for job control.
[05:02:25] <nrubsig> quite usefull.
[05:02:28] <Stric> http://www.acc.umu.se/~stric/tmp/dnlc-plot2.png  <- locked 200k dnlc entries and the green one is how much memory arc is using for that.. not sure I like where it's going..
[05:03:01] <Stric> (green is in kilobytes.. so it's around 1.6GB soon)
[05:03:24] <Stric> X is roughly minutes..
[05:04:15] <Error_404> use exec(2) ?
[05:04:54] <nrubsig> Error_404: for what ?
[05:05:11] <Error_404> instead of posix_spawn
[05:05:14] <nrubsig> umpf
[05:05:36] <nrubsig> Error_404: fork()/exec() is to expensive and vfork() will not work in a multithreaded shell.
[05:07:09] <UnixTitan> system should be safe in shells
[05:07:10] <UnixTitan> system()
[05:08:32] <UnixTitan> if you are willing to write a 5 line C app.
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[05:09:07] <nrubsig> umpf
[05:09:40] <nrubsig> UnixTitan: |system()| will definately NOT work within a unix shell for shell child processes.
[05:09:41] * steleman pokes nrubsig
[05:09:48] * steleman pokes Error_404
[05:09:49] * nrubsig pokes back
[05:09:55] <steleman> :-)
[05:09:58] <nrubsig> steleman: I am around one day behind my email
[05:10:15] <UnixTitan> nrubsig: no it doesn't
[05:10:20] <steleman> nrubsig: this is perfectly ok, this is not a punchinj job :-)
[05:10:27] <UnixTitan> nrubsig: why do you need a child process in a shell though?
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[05:10:47] <UnixTitan> unless you are wanting to do an exe app or something that forks gui apps and returns prompt
[05:11:39] <nrubsig> UnixTitan: uhm... $ function foo { do_something ; } foo & ; foo & ; wait # will run the shell function "foo" as two seperate child processes and |system()| is completely useless in this case.
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[05:12:05] <UnixTitan> nrubsig: ah
[05:12:08] <nrubsig> (ok, bad example)
[05:12:27] <nrubsig> and vfork() is not thread-safe
[05:12:32] <UnixTitan> I only know C stuff.. but you could always use pthread yea?
[05:12:39] <nrubsig> uhm
[05:12:40] <nrubsig> no.
[05:12:43] <nrubsig> signals
[05:13:07] <nrubsig> and $$ is expected to poing to the current process within the child
[05:13:22] <nrubsig> threads within a (future) ksh93 shell will work differently.
[05:13:44] <nrubsig> more designed for worker jobs than sub-tasks
[05:13:52] <nrubsig> like in Occam etc.
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[05:20:18] <jamesd> is that anything like occam's razor ;-p
[05:21:51] <Error_404> hi steleman
[05:21:58] <Error_404> sorry, was reading javoid stuff
[05:22:00] <steleman> hi Error_404
[05:22:05] <steleman> its ok im eating :-)
[05:23:37] <nrubsig> steleman: chewing on your latest victim's bones ?
[05:23:52] <steleman> nrubsig: who is my latest victim ? :-)
[05:24:04] <steleman> inquiring minds want to know
[05:24:07] <Error_404> nothing tastes better than the marrow of your enemies
[05:24:14] <nrubsig> steleman: I think the FBI will figure that out some day...
[05:24:40] <steleman> the FBI ?
[05:24:43] <steleman> dude i'm past the FBI
[05:24:50] <steleman> NSA, now you're talking
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[05:27:12] <Error_404> the NSA doesn't investigate murder trials
[05:27:16] <nrubsig> steleman: why NSA ? Wasn't the B.P.R.D. chasing you ?
[05:27:31] <steleman> what's the BPRD ?
[05:27:52] <nrubsig> Bureau for Paranormal Research and Defense
[05:28:04] <steleman> Error: no NSA doesn't investigate murders but they are pretty good with computers and they are very stealthy. i respect them. :-)
[05:28:34] <steleman> did i inadvertently kill someone ? :-)
[05:28:39] <steleman> recently ?
[05:29:21] <rydis> While we're off-topic, and speaking of murder, any news on Reiser?
[05:29:28] <nrubsig> steleman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_for_Paranormal_Research_and_Defense
[05:30:56] <Error_404> rydis: you can buy his company if you want
[05:31:35] <steleman> why is my name in there ? :-)
[05:31:38] <rydis> Nah, I think I'll pass. But thanks for the tip.
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[05:32:11] <nrubsig> steleman: that's the mystic mystery of Wikipedia
[05:32:25] <steleman> lmao
[05:33:18] <Error_404> if a majority of people say something's true... it's true
[05:33:27] <steleman> yes
[05:34:05] <nrubsig> Error_404: Germany is evil and must be nuked per order of King WWWW Bush.
[05:34:20] <nrubsig> Now everyone has to repear this and then it will happen.
[05:34:26] <nrubsig> s/repear/repeat/
[05:34:50] <nrubsig> (assuming the world works like wikipedia)
[05:35:21] * nrubsig still remembers the day when someone swapped the articles for "peace" and "way"
[05:35:26] <steleman> Andrew Orlovski (from The Register) refers to the people who manage the Wikipedia as "Wikipaedophilians"
[05:36:13] <nrubsig> steleman: yeah, and we have a study which claims that 20% of the german wikipedia users are affiliated with the nazi/right-wing people here.
[05:36:25] <nrubsig> making de.wikipedia.org the largest of their sites.
[05:36:51] <Doc> haha.. and just as you say that, my website gets a hit from a link of de.wikipedia.com
[05:37:06] <nrubsig> interestingly the findings of that study were removed from wikipedia within a day
[05:37:13] <Doc> 80.142.33.193 - - [06/Jan/2007:04:36:33 +0000] "GET /MP/ HTTP/1.1" 200 3367 "http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machu_Picchu" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.1.1) Gecko/20061204 Firefox/2.0.0.1"
[05:38:49] <jteo> Hello *.
[05:46:33] <Doc> wow.. SDLC had over 2 billion downloads in November
[05:46:52] <Error_404> i wonder how many of them were us
[05:46:59] <Error_404> oh, right... and java6
[05:47:07] <Doc> yah.. majority is java apparently
[05:47:31] <Doc> plus that's files, not products (eg, the X parts of teh DVD for OS is X downloads, etc)
[05:51:02] <Error_404> hmm... new version of O/N
[05:51:05] <Error_404> feature freeze over?
[05:51:16] <Doc> what feature freeze?
[05:51:48] <Error_404> wasn't 53 and 54 bugfix only?
[05:53:20] <Doc> certainly doesnt look that way from the log
[05:53:36] <Doc> but 55 is a "special" build, although i'm not sure if i can say why yet :)
[05:54:11] <Error_404> is it full of pixies and rainbows?
[05:55:17] <Doc> nah.. we've just replaced the entire thing with Windows Vista
[05:55:21] <Error_404> or is it special like "maybe you want to hold off on this one"
[05:55:24] <Doc> oops.. i wasnt supposed to say that yet... damn
[05:55:31] <boyd> lol
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[05:57:23] <Error_404> or is it GPL or something?
[06:03:09] <Error_404> hmm.. 1000Gb drives on the market now
[06:03:17] <Error_404> that means 500's might start to get affordable soon
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[06:28:43] <Gr|ffous> ROFL, nice doc
[06:29:47] <Doc> "I can neither confirm nor deny that we have replaced OpenSolaris build 55 with Windows Nevada" - Scott
[06:30:03] <Gr|ffous> lol
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[06:57:42] <Error_404> ugh, headache = sucks
[06:57:45] <Gr|ffous> Along the same lines: http://www.phun.org/newspics/funny_friday/1124.jpg
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[07:10:34] <dwc-> awww, poor beagle
[07:11:07] <dwc-> looks kinda like stevel's puppy
[07:12:31] <Gr|ffous> yeah! :)
[07:12:46] <Gr|ffous> DON'T KILL STEVEL's PUPPY!
[07:13:01] <Error_404> he's bad, but he's cute
[07:13:16] <Gr|ffous> evil genius more like it
[07:15:18] <Error_404> I have cats
[07:15:28] <Error_404> they're generally too lazy to tear the house apart
[07:22:23] <Gr|ffous> I just don't get cats. The one that lives here, redefines lazy. Garfield seems far more energetic
[07:25:12] <Tpenta> Gr|ffous: it's easy, dogs have owners, cats have staff.
[07:25:25] <Tpenta> that's all there is to know about cats
[07:25:35] <Gr|ffous> Yes, I've heard that one
[07:25:56] <Gr|ffous> I refuse to identify it as 'ours'
[07:26:41] <Gr|ffous> the damn thing barely responds to it's own name, which is why I refuse it the dignity of calling it anything other then simply 'cat', or 'damn cat'
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[07:28:23] <Error_404> meh, i like my cats
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[07:29:05] <Error_404> they leave me alone instead of pestering me for walks when i'm in the middle of something
[07:29:52] <Gr|ffous> I suppose on the plus side, you can always 'walk' your cat without getting up from your chair. You just need a laser pointer :)
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[07:34:40] <Doc> i like cats
[07:34:46] <Doc> they give you something to aim for
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[08:15:27] <Gr|ffous> hi ben
[08:16:28] <benr> howde.
[08:16:57] <Gr|ffous> did you take some time off over the holiday period?
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[08:17:48] <gotit> hi every body
[08:17:59] <gotit> i am tryin to install solaris for the first time
[08:19:17] <gotit> i am at the screen where it shows gnu grub verson .95  and there are three options solaris, solaris serial console ttya  and solaris serial console ttyb for lx50 v60x and v65x ,
[08:19:48] <Gr|ffous> it you are wanting to install it using a local screen, you want option #1
[08:19:57] <benr> yup
[08:20:04] <Gr|ffous> I believe the other options are for headless
[08:20:05] <gotit> when i select the first one named Solaris , after reading the drive for some time it says some mount error, could not mount
[08:20:16] <gotit> lol
[08:20:30] <Gr|ffous> did you go for the interactive install (default)
[08:21:16] <gotit> i just press enter on solaris and screen goes blank and after some time that mount prob
[08:21:39] <Gr|ffous> that sounds like your media might not be quite right
[08:21:51] <Gr|ffous> did you download then burn it?
[08:22:35] <gotit> nope i bought from the web
[08:22:58] <Gr|ffous> hmm, and you CD drive is known to be a good one?
[08:23:22] <gotit> yep its dvd and solaris is also on dvd
[08:23:35] <gotit> let me tell you the error,
[08:23:40] <gotit> should I?
[08:24:15] <Error_404> it might make things easier to diagnose
[08:24:35] <gotit> kernel /boot/multiboot kernel/unix -B install_media=cdrom
[08:24:52] <gotit> error 17: Cannot mount selected parttion booting Solaris
[08:25:05] <gotit> press any key to continue
[08:26:23] <gotit> :-) and when i press "any" key it on the same options screen again
[08:27:32] <gotit> should i go for e to edit the commands before booting or c for a command line
[08:28:56] <Gr|ffous> I don't know that either is going to help really... Being the install CD... it pretty much has to go for those lines. Really e/c are only used when you have solaris on the disk
[08:29:45] <gotit> what do you suggest than?
[08:30:59] <Gr|ffous> is this a first time install on this host?
[08:31:49] <gotit> yep, and the first time of media and me too :-)
[08:32:14] <Gr|ffous> so there isn't an OS already on the disks that might be confusing grub?
[08:32:28] <gotit> first time install of solaris , it has centos installed
[08:33:49] <Gr|ffous> I wonder if that's the problem..... Clearly it shouldn't be stopping this, but it might at least be a clue
[08:34:14] <Gr|ffous> hit e, and tell me what it says, there should be something about root(hd0)?
[08:34:52] <gotit> let me restart it agian, i pressed c :-)
[08:38:43] <gotit> now it not going on the grub screen it says minimal bash like line editing is supported for first word tab lists possible....
[08:39:19] <gotit> lemme restart it again
[08:39:48] <gotit> ok i pressed c but it says the above thing again
[08:40:05] <Gr|ffous> e, not c :)
[08:40:23] <gotit> :- ) ok
[08:41:00] <Gr|ffous> I think you can just hit esc, and it will go back to the menu
[08:41:17] <gotit> aah
[08:41:59] <gotit> ok it says kernel /bootmultiboot kernel/unix -B install-media=cdrom and the other option is
[08:42:09] <gotit> module /boot/x86.miniroot
[08:42:28] <Gr|ffous> ok, hit c, and try ls
[08:42:52] <Gr|ffous> you should be browsing the contents of the install dvd
[08:42:57] <gotit> unrecongnized command
[08:43:08] <Gr|ffous> I would assume that you can do things like cd boot?
[08:43:39] <Gr|ffous> cd kernel rather
[08:43:53] <gotit> :()
[08:44:08] <gotit> i dont know :()
[08:44:23] <Gr|ffous> ok, failing that, you know how to use bash style autocompletion? ie <TAB TAB>?
[08:45:30] <gotit> i have never used linux/unix before, but i think i could do TAB TAB
[08:45:38] <gotit> :-)
[08:46:00] <Gr|ffous> ok, well all I'm trying to establish is if grub is able to read the media
[08:46:23] <gotit> ok
[08:46:25] <Gr|ffous> so if you type 'kernel', followed by <TAB TAB>, it should give you a list of available options
[08:47:02] <Gr|ffous> given what you've said so far, it sounds like it's just a media issue, and it is 'reading the drive for some time before failing'
[08:47:14] <Gr|ffous> available files actually, not options
[08:47:48] <gotit> where should i type kernel
[08:48:12] <Gr|ffous> from the grub command prompt
[08:48:57] <gotit> it says filename must be either an absolute pathname or blocklist
[08:49:26] <Gr|ffous> oh, don't hit enter, just type kernel, <space>, then hit <TAB> twice
[08:50:56] <gotit> its the same thing and than its at  grub> kernel <space> _
[08:51:16] <gotit> underscore is blinking off course :)
[08:52:03] <Gr|ffous> bummer. I have confess I haven't actually tried this with solaris, only linux. It works there! Well at this stage I think the best thing that you can do is find another host, and try the install dvd there to see if it has the same issue
[08:52:14] <gotit> it does not allow me to press tab twice
[08:52:55] <gotit> now this is not easy to find another host
[08:53:15] <Gr|ffous> just any other machine with a dvd drive that you can reboot :)
[08:53:30] <gotit> i have free bsd cds too ,
[08:54:00] <Gr|ffous> no no... you wouldn't want to accidentally install those ;)
[08:54:03] <gotit> you mean i can do it on this one with windows installed
[08:54:26] <Gr|ffous> sure, you don't need to actually install solaris, just see if you can get the installer to start
[08:54:47] <gotit> ok i have to go offline than
[08:54:54] <Gr|ffous> if so, the DVD is probably ok, and more troubleshooting is needed. If not, we know what the issue is
[08:55:01] <Gr|ffous> see you soon...
[08:55:12] <gotit> yeah :)
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[08:55:42] <Gr|ffous> anyone who actually knows what they are doing is welcome to dive on it when he comes back :)
[08:57:26] <Gr|ffous> If anyone would like to help me out with symbol referencing errors, that would be great too!
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[09:02:35] <gotit> yeah yeah it seems my dvd rom has having problems :( its working fine on this machine, but how come it can happen i installed centos yesterday with the same dvd rom
[09:03:33] <Gr|ffous> That's good news, and a good question. I'm afraid I don't have a good answer for you though - I have no idea
[09:04:14] <gotit> :-)
[09:04:29] <Gr|ffous> I seem to remember some extra lines that you can add to grub that changes acpi... or was it apic, I can never remember the difference, but it makes to for a more forgiving kernel, which might help
[09:04:58] <Gr|ffous> I don't remember what the commands are though. Is there a manual included with the DVD? that might have it?
[09:05:17] <gotit> nope
[09:06:15] <gotit> what if i copy the dvd to the hard drive in centos and then run it from there, is it possible
[09:06:24] <Error_404> not really no
[09:07:13] <gotit> i have a 1gb memory stick, can it help
[09:07:15] <Gr|ffous> can you try a different dvd drive in your server?
[09:07:45] <Gr|ffous> I know it's a bit of a pain, but I'd imagine this is only going to be an install issue, in which case you'd only have to do it the once
[09:08:16] <gotit> its not a sever , i bought some chepo system to make my hands clean on solaris
[09:09:07] <Gr|ffous> as a general rule, I'm found the newer the hardware, the better solaris runs. It seems to have trouble with older x86 hardware
[09:09:59] <gotit> its not that old , its hp 3Ghz 32bit desktop
[09:10:58] <Gr|ffous> well it still sounds like we need a different dvd drive. Can you loan it the one in your current machine, just for the install?
[09:11:37] <gotit> i have to ask for it
[09:11:54] <gotit> i suppose it wouldnt mind,
[09:12:41] <gotit> so why ask , just have to turn it off and grab it slightly :)
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[09:13:16] <gotit> have to go offline agian
[09:13:31] <gotit> see ya real soon :-)
[09:13:36] <Gr|ffous> ok
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[09:13:49] <Gr|ffous> odd fella...
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[10:02:31] <Stormy> I'm confused, I see this link say that java web server 6.1 is free, yet i don't see any place to download it.  http://www.sun.com/software/products/web_srvr/home_web_srvr.xml
[10:03:40] <Error_404> glassfish?
[10:04:15] <Stormy> oh never mind i i think i finally found the link
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[10:10:44] <Error_404> what's the difference between java web server and java application server, anyways?
[10:10:55] <Error_404> aside from one of them is opensource
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[10:30:13] <asyd> \_o<
[10:30:54] <Error_404> hey asyd
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[10:34:58] <bougie> hello :)
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[10:39:25] <Fish> hello
[10:40:09] <Stormy> Anyone aware of any time where a 3 soft raid 5 would be faster than a soft raid 1?
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[10:51:50] <trygvis> Error_404: the appserver is probably webserver+++
[10:57:48] <Error_404> w00t. got jsf reading cookies
[10:57:55] <Error_404> on firefox anyways
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[11:14:02] <Error_404> seems safari, opera, and konqueror want to delete this cookie
[11:14:12] <Error_404> firefox is like, "meh, it's cool... i'll keep it around"
[11:18:40] <Doc> sun.com/jes
[11:22:19] <Error_404> Doc: the thing you weren't allowed to talk about eariler
[11:22:26] <Error_404> was it the sunstudio integration?
[11:23:27] <Gr|ffous> interesting libraries: ass_render.o ass_utils.o
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[11:26:48] <Error_404> SUNWrainbowdistrict ?
[11:28:59] <Gr|ffous> heh, just mplayer
[11:29:19] <Gr|ffous> I've spent 7 hours trying to make it compile. At this stage I'm willing to pay for help
[11:30:15] <Error_404> SPARC?
[11:30:23] <Gr|ffous> x86
[11:31:27] <Error_404> x86, or amd64?
[11:31:32] <Error_404> the two are different
[11:31:39] <Gr|ffous> either will do
[11:31:57] <Gr|ffous> this machine is amd64, but I"m wanting to use the win32 codecs, so it will be 32-bit anyway
[11:32:09] <Error_404> and it won't compile with gcc?
[11:32:24] <myrkraverk> it's 13th of cristmas, and I'm going to burn elves!
[11:32:32] <Gr|ffous> well, I suppose to be fair, *I* can't make it compile with gcc
[11:32:56] <Doc> so compile it with gcc
[11:33:08] <Doc> where do i send the bill to?
[11:33:37] <myrkraverk> bgates at microsoft dot com ?
[11:33:56] <Gr|ffous> if someone is actually willing to show me what I'm doing wrong, and make it work on my system, I'll paypal or whatever works
[11:34:29] <Gr|ffous> I bet it'll take you guys only 2-3 attempts :)
[11:34:56] <Error_404> what's it puke up when you go through the regular GNU compile sequence?
[11:36:24] <Gr|ffous> http://rafb.net/p/QB4fLw71.html
[11:38:32] <Gr|ffous> so, the issues is with the final linking of libvo/x11_common.o to mplayer, which is then dynamically referenced at runtime. Is that right? My brain is so frazzeled at this point, nothing makes sense
[11:39:09] <estibi> i have zfs mirror ( 2 disks ) and is it possible to add another disk and create raidz without moving all data to another (backup) server ?
[11:39:39] <Gr|ffous> I don't think you can do that yet sorry estibi
[11:39:56] <Error_404> yeah, looks like it can't find most of those symbols
[11:40:23] <Error_404> estibi: no, you can't do that yet
[11:40:28] <Gr|ffous> so, when you say "find"... what does that mean exactly? LD doesn't know where they are?
[11:40:38] <estibi> hmm :/
[11:40:48] <Error_404> Gr|ffous: looks more like those symbols aren't in some library it's trying to link to
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[11:41:11] <Gr|ffous> ok, so I then use elfdump on the .o file right?
[11:41:46] <Gr|ffous> bash-3.00$ elfdump -s x11_common.o | grep XUnmapWindow
[11:41:47] <Gr|ffous>      [151]  0x00000000 0x00000000  NOTY GLOB  D    0 UNDEF          XUnmapWindow
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[11:49:22] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: all those functions that start with an X are in the library /usr/openwin/lib/libX11.so
[11:49:33] <jmcp> tmp $ nm /usr/openwin/lib/libX11.so|grep XClearWindow
[11:49:33] <jmcp> [3574]  |    117000|       159|FUNC |GLOB |0    |12     |XClearWindow
[11:50:07] <jmcp> so check to see whether the configure script is adding an -lX11 to an LDFLAGS or LIBS-like line
[11:50:16] <Gr|ffous> mine is almost the same: [3575]  |    142408|       159|FUNC |GLOB |0    |13     |XClearWindow
[11:50:32] <jmcp> the esd* functions require libesd.
[11:50:45] <jmcp> dunno about the ifoOpen or DVD* ones
[11:51:23] <jmcp> DPMSEnable has a manpage DPMSEnable(3Xext) which indicates you need to add -lXext
[11:51:53] <jmcp> Error_404: problem is that the correct libs aren't being included on the command line to the linker
[11:53:12] <Gr|ffous> I've just nuked and unextracted the source again. Fresh start
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[11:56:31] <Tpenta> condiments of teh seasoning james
[11:57:28] <Error_404> hey Tpenta
[11:57:35] <Tpenta> :)
[11:57:51] <jmcp> Tpenta: thankyou
[11:58:06] * jmcp is living through jetlag right now
[11:58:47] <jmcp> Tpenta: I was pleased to see a 5-0 clean sweep, but I wish England had lasted until today
[11:58:54] <Tpenta> :)
[12:04:26] <Gr|ffous> ok, here is what I have: ./configure http://rafb.net/p/4b2WtJ32.html config.log: http://rafb.net/p/REbVMi64.html config.mak: http://rafb.net/p/8ZjPE811.html    config.h: http://rafb.net/p/gdEdcq42.html
[12:05:15] <Gr|ffous> so there is an -lX11 under the X_LIB section of my config.mak
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[12:05:43] <Gr|ffous> I always have to go in and delete the -rdynamic section from ARCH_LIB. GCC doesn't like it
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[12:17:42] <Gr|ffous> jmcp, how did you know that they were in that library. These are the building blocks that I'm missing for troubleshooting these problems :/
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[12:28:36] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: I recognised the names of those functions
[12:28:51] <jmcp> I've done a bit of this stuff in the past 16,17 years :)
[12:29:48] <Gr|ffous> haha... yeah I'm suffering here with what I guess is just lack of experience
[12:30:25] <jmcp> you'll get that quickly enough when you start to recognise the patterns
[12:30:28] <Gr|ffous> so had I not know that (which is the case for most stuff), how would one work backwards to actually find out that this was the case, and that I needed to add those headers?
[12:31:22] <jmcp> installing the headers? unless you've done some weird-arse wacky installation, they should be installed already
[12:31:33] <jmcp> ditto for the libs
[12:31:55] <Gr|ffous> oh no, the headers are in there. SUNWxorg-headers is working, but it seems that mplayer wasn't looking there
[12:32:15] <jmcp> the way to work backward is this - any function that starts with an uppercase X is almost certainly going to be an X11 function, and you'll probably find a manpage for it. the manpages frequently list the library/libraries required
[12:33:29] <jmcp> you'd need to ensure that you have -I/usr/X11/include as one of your CFLAGS, and -L/usr/X11/lib as one of your LDFLAGS
[12:34:01] <Gr|ffous> oh, so functions have man pages too, not just programs?
[12:34:06] <jmcp> yup
[12:34:15] <jmcp> if it's supplied with Solaris then it should have a manpage
[12:34:23] <Gr|ffous> cool, I like that
[12:34:26] <Error_404> section 2 is syscalls
[12:34:52] <jmcp> if it doesn't have one, then it's either a massive oversight (vvv rare) or a private utility which you aren't supposed to use yourself
[12:35:01] <Gr|ffous> is that why people are always saying man (<foo>1M) rather then just plain man?
[12:35:08] <Error_404> yes
[12:35:18] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: darn right
[12:35:33] <Gr|ffous> because programs under solaris have HEAPS of man pages per application?
[12:35:48] <jmcp> have a look at the difference between printf(1) and printf(3C)
[12:35:57] <Error_404> no, there are just sometimes words you use that are both commands & syscalls
[12:35:59] <jmcp> it depends
[12:37:04] <Gr|ffous> Here is where I'm at now, any thoughts on this on jmcp? http://rafb.net/p/J1BR9i18.html I did try man read_toc first :)
[12:38:26] <Error_404> why is this using static libraries throughout?
[12:38:39] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: well, that function is used in stream_cddb.o/.c .. and I'd guess that it's related to reading TOC data off media
[12:38:41] <Error_404> solaris doesn't even *have* static libraries
[12:39:00] <jmcp> Error_404: yeah, *Solaris* doesn't, but you're free to use them if you want
[12:39:04] <Gr|ffous> I wan reading that... which hasn't helped my understanding of these issues any! lol
[12:39:23] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: you could use "--enable-static=no" btw
[12:39:48] <Gr|ffous> that's a recommended practice I take it then?
[12:40:28] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: btw, read_toc() shows up in this thread http://www.archivesat.com/OpenSolaris_Dynamic_Linking/thread1674219.htm
[12:40:29] <jmcp> yes
[12:40:58] <dlg> jmcp, you're still alive!
[12:41:05] <jmcp> dlg: got back today
[12:41:12] <dlg> i didnt know you were away
[12:41:16] <dlg> having been gone myself
[12:41:31] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: following the pointers there ... read_toc() is part of cdda which on my box shows up in the SUNWlibcdio package
[12:41:51] <Gr|ffous> heh, I'm glad that was in english for you :)
[12:41:54] <jmcp> dlg: went to NYC for Christmas and NYE, then spent a few days in SF catching up with friends
[12:41:59] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: practice :)
[12:42:10] <dlg> nice
[12:42:28] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: I'm running snv_49 on this box right now ... upgrade scheduled for snv_56 shortly
[12:42:41] <jmcp> dlg: but Times Square on NYE ... a complete freakin' nightmare
[12:43:22] <dlg> i was in a village in scotland
[12:43:29] <dlg> i imagine it was the complete opposite
[12:43:39] <jmcp> yeah
[12:44:14] <jmcp> we made the mistake around 12:30pm of trying to walk *one* block in Times Square ... that's about 50m ... took us 30 minutes to get unstuck
[12:44:28] <dlg> sounds "awesome"
[12:44:35] <jmcp> in more ways than one
[12:44:56] <Doc> jmcp: heh.. sounds very similar to halloween
[12:45:03] <jmcp> Doc: hi ... yeah, I guess so
[12:45:17] <Gr|ffous> wow, it didn't even complete ./configure with --enable-static=no
[12:45:18] <jmcp> we ended up in a pub on 8th/34th for the ball drop
[12:45:28] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: where did it die
[12:45:29] <jmcp> ?
[12:45:44] <jmcp> Doc: made the pilgrimage to B&H .... very impressive
[12:46:01] <Doc> there were an estimated 2 million ppl there for the halloween parade
[12:46:14] <jmcp> fark
[12:46:28] <Doc> possible a bigger area than for NYE, but even so i had no intention (or possibility!) of moving once i was there
[12:46:35] <jmcp> same for us
[12:46:43] <Gr|ffous> http://rafb.net/p/8c2OnJ53.html . Would you like the configure.log?
[12:46:50] <jmcp> yes please
[12:47:31] <Gr|ffous> http://rafb.net/p/gG3Loj81.html
[12:48:26] <Gr|ffous> hmm, does this mean that mplayer's automake/config system doesn't support this option?
[12:48:27] <jmcp> ah, my mistake ... this isn't a "standard" gnu autoconf configure
[12:48:37] <jmcp> yes, looks that way
[12:48:40] <Gr|ffous> hey, I got one right!
[12:48:41] <Gr|ffous> WOOO!
[12:48:56] <jmcp> the giveaway is   #17 gcc: no: No such file or directory
[12:49:06] <Gr|ffous> yeah, I picked up on that :)
[12:49:19] <Gr|ffous> odd that ./configure even ran then?
[12:49:34] <jmcp> if you run    ./configure --help    do you see anything about static libraries?
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[12:49:58] <jmcp> nope, not really
[12:50:29] <jmcp> this configure script didn't understand that you want this option set, so it assumed you wanted to pass something direct to the compiler
[12:50:32] <PerterB> from the fact it's generating command lines with "-static no", I'd guess the option you're looking for is --disable-static
[12:50:36] <Gr|ffous> I see --enable-static ... I guess we already know that it does that ;)
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[12:53:08] <PerterB> ...although google suggests --enable-dynamic too
[12:53:19] <PerterB> (for other applications)
[12:53:32] <PerterB> this is what I love about GNU autoconf... I creates more confusion than it resolves
[12:53:38] <PerterB> *It
[12:54:33] <Gr|ffous> I think I read somewhere that this isn't actually using the standard autoconf. Somewhere amoungst a lot of googling today :)
[12:54:56] <Gr|ffous> so far so good with --disable-static
[12:55:13] <PerterB> It's fine if it works out-of-the-box (which it probably does if you happen to have the exact same Linux configuration as the main developers), but if you have to debug it then it's a nightmare, especially if the application deveopers have added their own tests in addition to the standard ones
[12:55:30] <Gr|ffous> so what is the solaris version of autoconf? I don't think I've actually built any native solaris apps
[12:56:27] <Gr|ffous> hmm, same error;  read_toc                            stream/stream.a(stream_cddb.o)
[12:56:41] <Gr|ffous> so I guess it's still a static library, as it's a .a file?
[12:57:05] <PerterB> looks that way
[12:57:14] <jmcp> which is the static library?
[12:57:39] <Gr|ffous> stream/stream.a ?
[12:57:55] <jmcp> if you have a static lib then you need to list it on the command line     cc -o outputfile [list of .o files] libstatic.a -ldynamiclib    etc etc
[13:00:58] <Gr|ffous> like this? http://rafb.net/p/mvU5Yo35.html
[13:02:12] <Gr|ffous> frustratingly, that was done with --enable-libcdio
[13:02:46] <PerterB> one problem here is that the versions of those 3 libcdio libs shipped with solaris (b54 at least) don't actually export a read_toc symbol... yet the libccdio documentation lists it...
[13:03:04] <PerterB> Do you actually need CD IO? You could always try disabling it ;)
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[13:04:29] <PerterB> actually, my bad... I was misreading the libcdio docs
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[13:05:36] <Gr|ffous> hmm http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=58462
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[13:06:01] <Gr|ffous> well that would be just my luck, I am on 54
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[13:07:23] <Gr|ffous> I don't need it, I'm trying again without it. I had been using --disable-cdparanioa. That's something different again?
[13:08:19] <PerterB> the last but one para is what I was just thinking... the only read_toc defined in cdda.h and the libcdio docs is a callback function pointer stashed in a data structure
[13:08:41] <PerterB> could you grep out the code that calls it?
[13:08:53] <Gr|ffous> er, sure, give me a command to paste :)
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[13:09:49] <Gr|ffous> WOOOOOOOO
[13:09:51] <PerterB> in the libass directory, grep read_toc *.c and paste the lines around it
[13:09:56] <Gr|ffous> 8 FREAKING HOURS
[13:10:07] <jmcp> Gr|ffous:     grep -n read_toc libass/*c
[13:10:12] <Gr|ffous> thanks so much guys: bash-3.00$ file mplayer
[13:10:12] <Gr|ffous> mplayer:        ELF 32-bit LSB executable 80386 Version 1, dynamically linked, not stripped
[13:10:24] <PerterB> oh, never mind then :)
[13:10:25] <jmcp> the -n will help you when you're looking for the lines around the one you want
[13:10:42] <PerterB> good point
[13:10:44] <Gr|ffous> no match
[13:11:07] <Gr|ffous> I ran it with both --disable-libcdio and --disable-cdparanoia
[13:12:32] <Gr|ffous> PerterB, http://rafb.net/p/6f5ELP87.html
[13:14:25] <PerterB> oh... looks like stream/stream_cddb.c defines multiple versions of that function internally... I'm guessing they're bracketted by #ifdefs and none of those are being defined on solaris, so no version of the function gets compiled in
[13:15:18] <Gr|ffous> ....yeah!
[13:15:21] <PerterB> lines 60-ish to 300-ish would be interesting.... but unless you're desperate to get cdio working, I'm gonna go look for some breakfast ;)
[13:15:48] <Gr|ffous> oh no, you've been so helpful already, I was just doing the grep for your benefit
[13:16:21] <PerterB> oh ta... it's useful, because it suggests it's an autoconf glitch rather than an issue with the solaris libs
[13:17:18] <Gr|ffous> are you a sun developer yourself?
[13:17:29] <PerterB> no :)
[13:18:04] <Gr|ffous> why :)? I'd love to work for sun.... somehow I don't quite think there is a job for me in their coding department just yet though
[13:18:09] <PerterB> but I've written quite a lot of code on sunos/solaris over the years, and struggled with oss that doesn't compile cleanly on anything but linux
[13:19:14] <PerterB> I'd quite like to work for sun too, but my developer cv experience is way out of date, plus I probably make better money in my current line of work
[13:19:29] <PerterB> or Apple, I'm becoming a bit of a Cocoa weenie in my spare time
[13:21:51] <Gr|ffous> jmcp, I had to compile with  --with-extraincdir=/usr/X11/include/ to get the Xv libs working. It seems that there are a number of include folders for X11. Which is the 'real' one?
[13:21:58] <jmcp> they all are
[13:22:47] <Gr|ffous> /usr/X11/include/ & /usr/include/X11/  & /usr/openwin/include
[13:22:48] <jmcp> the stuff in /usr/openwin is what Sun has supplied since <1990. the stuff in /usr/X11 is the beginning of the migration to have files etc appear in the same namespace as on other OSes.
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[13:24:23] <Gr|ffous> now I promised money/lunch for help. jmcp/Perterb do you have paypal accounts or something similar?
[13:24:40] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: thanks for the offer, but don't be silly ... this is irc :)
[13:25:14] <Gr|ffous> jmcp, you have been the single most helpful person I'm met since I bumbled my way into solaris last year
[13:25:35] <jmcp> thankyou
[13:26:05] * LeftWing starts a new Web 2.0 service called LunchPal.
[13:26:16] <Gr|ffous> well I do owe you, are you a coder, can I help by testing some of your code at least?
[13:26:17] <Doc> this is why we all call him "Evil James"
[13:26:26] <Doc> no.. wait.. that was something else, wasnt it.. :)
[13:26:30] <LeftWing> haha
[13:26:33] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: muyahahaahaha :)
[13:26:41] <jmcp> Doc: yes, but he left ... so I'm the only one left
[13:26:58] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: you can test the code I'm working on once it's released ... assuming you've got the right hardware :)
[13:27:14] <jmcp> otoh ... keep hanging around here and see if you can help others
[13:27:17] <Doc> jmcp: i wanna see a split personality so that you can play both evil james and nice james
[13:27:38] <jmcp> Doc: that might be difficult
[13:27:40] <Doc> jmcp: www.docbert.org/ChicagoByNight/
[13:27:45] <Gr|ffous> well I attempted to help a guy with installing solaris earlier
[13:28:01] <jmcp> Doc: nice
[13:28:12] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: that's a good start
[13:28:12] <Gr|ffous> doc and co were probably sitting back laughing silently, but I TRIED! :)
[13:28:19] <Doc> not as nice as sydney, and not as big as machu piccu, but i'm happy with it anyway :)
[13:28:39] <jmcp> Doc: it does look nice
[13:28:58] * LeftWing reads the full technical details.
[13:29:42] <jmcp> hi LeftWing
[13:29:55] <jmcp> Doc: when did you visit B&H last?
[13:29:56] <LeftWing> Hi, James.
[13:29:59] <PerterB> Gr|ffous: yeah, don't be silly (re paypal etc) :)
[13:30:10] <Doc> 1st of november
[13:30:26] <jmcp> did they have the willy-wonka-style conveyor system then?
[13:30:31] <Doc> yes
[13:30:40] <jmcp> it's vv impressive
[13:30:44] <jmcp> even J was impressed
[13:31:12] <Gr|ffous> well the offer stands. If either of you come to .nz, you have somewhere to stay, and free food coming your way :)
[13:31:20] <jmcp> Doc: I got a 70-300mm f/4-5.6 is usm lens while we were there
[13:31:34] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: thankyou.... how about the Bledisloe Cup?
[13:31:35] * jmcp chortles
[13:31:57] <PerterB> I'll take a beer off you next time we're in the same bar ;)
[13:32:02] <Doc> anyway, must be bedtime.. got an early start at the tennis tomorrow
[13:32:09] <jmcp> sleep well
[13:32:16] <jmcp> I'm gonna see how long I can go before I really crash out
[13:32:20] <LeftWing> heh
[13:32:22] <Gr|ffous> where are you based PerterB? jmcp, you said .au right?
[13:32:27] <jmcp> yup
[13:32:31] <PerterB> London, UK
[13:32:34] <jmcp> I'm in Sydney, though I'd prefer to be in Brisbane
[13:32:46] <LeftWing> jmcp: For the weather?
[13:32:48] <PerterB> might move to Oz or NZ one of these years though
[13:32:49] <Doc> blah.. if i was ever to drink all the beer i've been given on IRC/mailing lists/etc, i'd be one very drunk person :)
[13:33:16] <Gr|ffous> ah, but so much more merry too!
[13:33:17] <jmcp> LeftWing: yes, and cos I've got family there and it's only 600km to J's parents rather than the 1600km that it is now
[13:34:00] <LeftWing> jmcp: Well that's fair enough, then, I suppose. =P   I prefer the climate down here, though.
[13:34:25] <LeftWing> If anything, further South would probably be more tolerable. :)
[13:34:40] * jmcp shivers
[13:34:44] <jmcp> I really can't stand the cold
[13:34:53] <LeftWing> And I the heat!
[13:34:57] <jmcp> Sydney in winter is about as cold as I can stand
[13:35:30] <Gr|ffous> would I be pushing my luck if I asked why my ./mplayer is only 32bit?
[13:35:47] <LeftWing> Why does it need to be any more than 32bit?
[13:35:54] <PerterB> because that's the default for apps unless you go out of your way to compile them 64bit
[13:35:56] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: you didn't pass -m64 as a CFLAG ... but really, why would you want a 64bit mplayer?
[13:36:23] <Gr|ffous> speed? to be 'hip'... I dunno, I come from gentoo - it's the thing to do :)
[13:36:29] <PerterB> for really really big MP3's ;)
[13:36:30] <jmcp> urgle
[13:36:39] <PerterB> 64 bit apps are often slower (and bigger)
[13:37:27] <Gr|ffous> It's funny, I didn't notice that in the AMD/Intel marketing blurbs :)
[13:37:28] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: there are two categories of apps that should have 64bit executables - serious HPC stuff, and massive data warehouses built on Oracle / postgresql / db2 / SAP etc etc
[13:37:39] <LeftWing> Except for, perhaps, appropriate code on platforms with demented processor features prior to 64bit. ;P
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[13:39:54] <Gr|ffous> PerterB, it's funny, all I hear about is the push for 64-bit. It's interesting to hear that the default is still 32-bit. I guess snv builds with both gcc and SS, to be sure that it works all around, but then to hear that 64-bit is avoided, and thus avoiding extra testing, comes as somewhat of a surprise
[13:41:10] <LeftWing> It's mainly Microsoft-infected Managers pushing for 64-bit these days, surely? =P
[13:41:27] <PerterB> the push was to get OS kernels 64bit, so that they could make use of > 4G memory... but the number of user-space application that need that is limited (although it's a very important and high margin class of application)
[13:41:49] <Gr|ffous> well I dunno, I've read many a time about niagras amazing 64-bit performance. Different demographic though to be fair I guess
[13:42:18] <LeftWing> If anything, I want more 32-bit -- so that I can use Sun Cluster on 32-bit Intel whiteboxes.
[13:42:53] <Gr|ffous> *gasp* surely you mean amd whiteboxs
[13:43:20] <LeftWing> I don't think I have any 32-bit AMD CPUs at the moment, so no, Intel. =)
[13:43:55] <Gr|ffous> so will Sun Cluster not work with 64-bit AMDs? If so, I'm going to hit more issues next month
[13:44:51] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: SC will work quite nicely with amd64 and intel's emt64
[13:44:56] <LeftWing> No, no -- it'll work with Solaris on x64.  I'm just under the impression it won't work with 32-bit x86.
[13:45:05] <jmcp> LeftWing: I sure hope that's incorrect
[13:45:25] <LeftWing> I do, too.  That was the impression Geoff got from boyd when he was down for Cluster training, though.
[13:45:32] <LeftWing> (Geoff is my boss at the Uni.)
[13:46:04] * jmcp checks something ....
[13:46:19] <Gr|ffous> Well gents, it's coming up 2am for me, and I've been at the PC for 11 hours now. My eyes don't want to keep looking at my screens
[13:46:31] <Gr|ffous> Thank you both again hugely, I'll catch you later
[13:46:38] <LeftWing> Gr|ffous: Too-rah.
[13:46:49] <jmcp> Gr|ffous: gnite, sleep well
[13:47:02] <PerterB> night
[13:47:22] * PerterB really goes to find some breakfast this time
[13:47:46] <Gr|ffous> 'night
[13:47:49] * Gr|ffous &
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[13:53:45] <jmcp> LeftWing: can't find anything on 32bit i86pc restrictions with SunCluster
[13:54:06] <LeftWing> jmcp: Nor can I -- but then according to Geoff that was part of the mystery. =P
[13:54:13] <jmcp> hm
[13:54:38] * LeftWing jumpstarts a 32-bit VM.
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[14:11:23] <whaq> Good news, everyone!
[14:11:58] <jteo> wb jmcp.
[14:12:03] <jmcp> jteo: thankyou
[14:12:20] <jmcp> damn
[14:12:46] <jmcp> most of the photos I took on top of the Empire State bldg were blurry :( .... but it was blowing 30+kt the night we went up it
[14:13:27] <jteo> excuses. you could have used a tripod.
[14:13:46] <jmcp> true ... if I could have gotten it through the security nazis
[14:13:56] <jteo> ah yes the police state of USA
[14:14:09] <jmcp> yes ... J  and I did manage to survive the so-called "land of the free"
[14:14:48] <jteo> [sic]
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[14:18:58] <jmcp> ok, time to crash
[14:18:59] <jmcp> gnite all
[14:26:44] <kimc> good morning from the USA
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[15:01:55] <lloy0077> I had already setup a zone and its config was in /etc/zones/linux.xml. However, I reinstalled ON54 because I lost /opt.
[15:02:11] <lloy0077> I still have the config for the linux.xml (which of course isn't there any more)
[15:02:24] <lloy0077> I put the linux.xml back and zoneadm doesn't see it.
[15:02:35] <trygvis> try importing it
[15:02:52] <lloy0077> However the actual physical files DO exist and they DID boot under the previous config (which was an install of ON54)
[15:02:56] <lloy0077> Ah
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[15:05:12] <lloy0077> Stupid question - man zonecfg | grep import AND man zoneadm | grep import don't turn up an import command.
[15:06:25] <trygvis> hm, dunno
[15:08:26] <lloy0077> I think I'll resort to "reinstalling a new zone" and then physically thumping my old zone over the new zone.
[15:08:29] <lloy0077> If that makes sense.
[15:08:30] * lloy0077 sigh
[15:09:09] <lloy0077> My glitch is, that I can't figure out the right way to ask google: "How do I get back a zone configuration when I have the XML descriptor".
[15:09:28] <lloy0077> (given that putting the XML descriptor in /etc/zones doesn't work :()
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[16:33:20] <trygvis> after I use ldapinit and that seems to work (i.e. getent passwd trygvis give sane results), what do I need to do to get ssh to authenticate against ldap?
[16:33:28] <trygvis> some pam magic?
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[16:35:35] <zdzichuBG> trygvis: yup
[16:35:56] <jteo> :)
[16:36:07] <zdzichuBG> trygvis: in login, account, other you must add before pam_unix_auth
[16:36:21] <zdzichuBG> trygvis: login auth sufficient pam_ldap.so.1
[16:36:28] <zdzichuBG> and so on
[16:37:43] <Stric> but 'getent passwd trygvis' indicates that NSS is working, thus pam_unix_auth should work
[16:38:51] <zdzichuBG> Stric: pam_unix_auth uses /etc/shadow
[16:39:13] <_syphilis_> the manual page says it uses NSS
[16:39:59] <zdzichuBG> nss for getting uid, home dirs etc. pam_ldap for handling passwords
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[16:44:21] <_syphilis_> "The pam_unix_auth module  implements  pam_sm_authenticate(), [...].  If PAM_REPOSITORY  is  specified, then user's passwd is fetched from    that    repository.    Otherwise,    the     default nsswitch.conf(4)  repository  is searched for that user."
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[16:50:28] <zdzichuBG> that's new for me
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[16:52:48] <zak> hey guys, i'm having some trouble on a reboot, 'export/home' cannot mount because its not empty -- and then several other things fail, all filesystem related, the last one says failed fatally startd[7]
[16:53:22] <zak> ...'transitioned to maintainance'
[16:53:30] <zak> ideas to get it up again?
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[16:56:09] <LeftWing> zdzichuBG: You need to use crypt passwords in your LDAP directory, if memory serves, to get pam_unix_auth to auth against it.
[16:56:12] <delewis> rm everything in export/home
[16:56:19] <delewis> export your zpool
[16:56:22] <delewis> and then re-import it
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[16:56:35] <delewis> well, it should already be exported
[16:57:06] <zak> in that order?
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[16:57:24] <zak> or export, rm, import?
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[16:58:02] <zak> or export, rm, import?
[16:58:05] <delewis> zak, just make sure the zpool is exported
[16:58:19] <delewis> I would re-import it after the system comes up
[16:58:24] <zak> and by emptying export/home, it should boot fine?
[16:58:27] <delewis> yes
[16:58:29] <zak> then import
[16:58:40] <delewis> right
[16:58:47] <zak> got it, thanks
[16:58:56] <delewis> bonnie++ is taking forever to run its benchmark on my E4500 :-(
[16:59:05] <delewis> it likes to write files that are twice the size of the physical memory in the system.
[17:00:54] <Saltsa> What solaris 10 cd:s i need for (almost) minimal install?
[17:01:22] <delewis> what's your justification for doing a minimal install?
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[17:02:36] <Saltsa> well, wasting of cds :p
[17:02:48] <Saltsa> is there any faster mirror to get solaris than sun's
[17:02:51] <delewis> download all of them.
[17:02:56] <delewis> Saltsa, no.
[17:03:01] <delewis> Solaris is only distributable by Sun.
[17:03:42] <Stric> I usually get a few MB/s from Sun..
[17:04:16] <delewis> Solaris is not an operating system that you can do a minimal install of and expect it to be usable to make it to be usable in a short time-frame.
[17:04:24] <delewis> you do your install the "right way" the first time around.
[17:04:25] <Saltsa> I'm only getting about 700kB/s
[17:04:55] <delewis> and the "right way" is almost always a complete install.
[17:05:16] <jteo> delewis: if you get Solaris to swap, it's...painful.
[17:05:23] <LeftWing> Or at least understanding what you can drop from SUNWCxall ;P
[17:05:52] <Saltsa> but it's the only way to run solaris by downloadging it from sun?
[17:05:54] <Stric> jteo: bonnie is writing >memory to avoid disk cache
[17:06:21] <delewis> Saltsa, yes.
[17:06:22] <trygvis> LeftWing: are you sure about that?
[17:06:32] <jteo> Stric: couldn't bonnie just use direct-io? :)
[17:06:33] <delewis> as I said, Sun is only entity that's allowed to re-distribute Solaris.
[17:06:36] <LeftWing> trygvis: Which part?
[17:06:57] <Saltsa> well, isn't it lisenced as open source?
[17:07:03] <delewis> Saltsa, no
[17:07:03] <trygvis> that I can use pam_unix to authenticate against ldap if the passwords are encryptet with crypt and not md5
[17:07:06] <delewis> Solaris != OpenSolaris.
[17:07:18] <delewis> http://whacked.net/what_is_opensolaris
[17:07:43] <LeftWing> trygvis: It's either crypt or plaintext... It's in the documentation, I believe.  Probably the sun docs on LDAP Naming Services for Solaris 10.
[17:08:25] <trygvis> oki
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[17:09:12] <Saltsa> delewis: okey, but opensolaris needs solaris express, community release, and it must also be downloaded from sun?
[17:10:11] <delewis> OpenSolaris doesn't always, necessarily require Solaris Express. Nexenta and a few of the other OpenSolaris-based distributions are working on ON building support.
[17:10:22] <delewis> Saltsa, and yes, you can only download SX:CR from Sun.
[17:10:45] <Saltsa> how about updates to communty release?
[17:10:51] <trygvis> with ldap, what's the easiest way to restrict logins to only a subset of the machines that are using ldap to authenticate?
[17:11:00] <delewis> Saltsa, install the next release.
[17:11:07] <delewis> Sun doesn't release patches for Alpha-quality release.
[17:11:07] <cmihai> What's the point of that? There's like a new CR every 2 weeks or so... Just liveupgrade
[17:11:09] <delewis> that would be crazy.
[17:11:16] <delewis> and a waste of effort
[17:11:26] <Saltsa> okey, so everytime i want update the system, i have to download new cd-images?
[17:11:33] <delewis> trygvis, netgroups
[17:11:42] <delewis> Saltsa, correct.
[17:12:16] <trygvis> hmm
[17:13:00] <delewis> Saltsa, the "preferred method" is downloading the DVD, loopback-mounting it, and using Live Upgrade.
[17:13:08] <delewis> burning media is not required
[17:13:50] <Saltsa> hmh, do you personally record official solaris10 or community release for home server?
[17:14:12] <delewis> I use Solaris 10, mostly, but Solaris Express is stable, too.
[17:14:46] <delewis> there are a few shops that are running Solaris Express in production.
[17:17:43] <cmihai> delewis: not the CR thoughm right?
[17:23:05] <Saltsa> hmh, now only gettin 55 kB/s from sun servers :(
[17:23:20] <Saltsa> should be about 100 times faster :/
[17:27:19] <estibi> where can i find driver for it8212 pci ata controller ?
[17:28:22] <cmihai> Saltsa: yes, you get random servers each time... hell, I get anything from 5KB/s to 8MB/s here
[17:28:39] <delewis> using SDM might help
[17:28:59] <cmihai> Yeah. They're Java Web Start sdm is actually kind of cool.
[17:29:04] <cmihai> Useless, but cool.
[17:29:50] <cmihai> Didn't work with svn_54 of all things, heh.
[17:31:43] <delewis> cmihai, I know for awhile Joyent was using their own ON builds.
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[17:49:53] <art_> hello is there any info comparing solaris vm solution to vmware
[17:52:44] <jteo> solaris zones aren't a complete virtualization platform, like VMware is.
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[18:05:36] <delewis> apples and oranges.
[18:05:50] <delewis> you also don't get the kind of granularity you get with zones with VMware.
[18:06:12] <art_> are their any numbers
[18:07:15] <art_> to compare which method for a data center meets some goal for fixing some problem
[18:07:41] <delewis> what's your goal
[18:07:46] <delewis> and what are the problems you want to fix.
[18:07:55] <delewis> clearly, zones are only a solution if you want to run just Solaris
[18:08:01] <art_> we have a data center with windows sun box, linux
[18:08:16] <delewis> but zones offer greater resource control, and that implies a greater amount of consolidation, possibly, depending on your workload and requirements.
[18:08:31] <trygvis> delewis: they're also great if you run java apps
[18:08:45] <trygvis> s,delewis,*, :)
[18:09:02] <art_> are there numbers the boss had a vmware demo with moving a live system across the network
[18:09:25] <art_> and was impressed
[18:09:45] <delewis> art_, zones have less overhead than VMware
[18:09:48] <delewis> they'll perform better.
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[18:10:05] <art_> i figured that
[18:10:24] <edp> vmware does impose a decent performance hit compared to running software directly on the box
[18:10:34] <art_> but are there demo stats non commerical to show that
[18:10:35] <delewis> in almost all cases zones perform at least 90% of what you'd see in a global zone.
[18:10:44] <edp> you won't find much in the way of benchmarks because it's against their EULA to publish benchmarks
[18:10:49] <delewis> art_, it's common sense.
[18:11:01] <delewis> you aren't virtualizing an entire system
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[18:11:31] <delewis> zones share the same kernel-space, though, it's still very secure, given zones don't have the same privileges that a global zone has.
[18:12:30] <art_> but i am still stuck with vmare for  vertualizing windows
[18:13:46] <trygvis> you could also use branded zones to virtualize linux boxen
[18:14:29] <art_> okay
[18:15:13] <art_> thanks
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[18:39:23] <rickross> hi all - can anyone recommend which version of OpenSolaris I should use to get Live CD capability and try it out on a new Core2Duo system?
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[18:41:21] <PerterB> I think Belenix is the distribution well-known for livecds (but I have no direct experience, just guessing from what I've read)
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[18:46:00] <wesw> Belenix or Nexenta will both do.
[18:46:47] <Bevin> hmm OpenSolaris on a USB stick with BeleniX .. tasty
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[19:02:21] <wamty> how can I find out the MAC of a certain ip, if it's on the same LAN but on a different broadcast network?
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[19:02:45] <wamty> (ipv4)
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[19:08:18] <jteo> different LAN segment?
[19:12:05] <Bevin> damn, seems nevada b52 doesn't work well on parallels
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[19:17:48] <Bevin> weird, two reboots got it running without errors
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[19:41:13] <Zephiris> Um, hope this is the right place, but I don't suppose anyone'd know why running ufsdump would corrupt the source filesystem (even if its set readonly)? ._.
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[19:42:53] <PerterB> I'd say that's unheard of
[19:44:16] <Zephiris> Mmf, I've tried several times, every time, the source filesystem becomes corrupt (and fsck can't repair it), and nor does it end up at the destination through ufsdump.
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[19:46:34] <PerterB> and you're sure it wasn't corrupt to start with?  ufsdump uses the raw device so it doesn't matter if the filesystem is mounted readonly or not, but it opens the device readonly so you'd either need a combined ufsdump & kernel bug to alter the filesystem, or perhaps some weirdly broken hardware
[19:47:26] <Zephiris> Hrm...*looks at the partition table*...great, something changed the start of the destination to overlap the end of the previous ones...so much for error checking. -_-
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[19:48:04] <PerterB> "oops"
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[20:03:20] <_syphilis_> is there a way to install solaris on a disk in another solaris system?  like live upgrade, but installing instead of upgrading
[20:04:13] <delewis> Live Upgrade can do that
[20:04:16] <delewis> just don't upgrade :-)
[20:04:35] <delewis> juset setup an alternate BE on that disk, if that's what you're asking for
[20:04:46] <_syphilis_> hmm really.. that's nice
[20:05:09] <_syphilis_> hm, that works from the media, rather from the existing installation?
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[20:05:28] <delewis> hmm, nope
[20:05:31] <_syphilis_> hm.
[20:05:45] <delewis> I guess you have some arbitrary version of Solaris installed, and you're wanting to install a newer, arbitrary version on the other disk?
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[20:06:30] <_syphilis_> yes.  (i have 3/05 and i want to "upgrade" to U3, but i'd rather reinstall since this system is more than a little messy)
[20:06:45] <_syphilis_> i was hoping something like LU could do that with a bit less downtime
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[20:09:04] <delewis> hmm, yeah, I'm not sure LU could do that.
[20:10:41] <trygvis> delewis: how would I use netgroups with ssh?
[20:12:00] <delewis> trygvis, I'm guessing ssh doesn't pay attention to hosts.equiv does it?
[20:12:10] <delewis> isn't there someway for ssh to use rhosts?
[20:12:19] <trygvis> dunno
[20:12:36] <delewis> have you read netgroup(4), yet?
[20:12:56] <delewis> hosts.equiv(4) is helpful, too, but it has no mention of ssh.
[20:12:57] <trygvis> nope :)
[20:13:08] <PerterB> yes... enable host-based authentication and then there's another option in sshd_config to say look at .rhosts as well as .shosts
[20:13:24] <delewis> that's what you want then, probably.
[20:13:33] <delewis> you can specify valid netgroups as an rhost
[20:13:41] <trygvis> host-baseed authentication?
[20:14:28] <PerterB> yeah, see HostbasedAuthentication in sshd_config(4)
[20:14:33] <trygvis> I still want the users to use their password
[20:14:48] <PerterB> ssh purists will tell you this is a bad idea (and indeed it's disabled by default)
[20:14:53] <trygvis> I just want to restrict login based on having to be inn some group
[20:14:58] <PerterB> ah
[20:15:07] <PerterB> that's a different problem then
[20:15:56] <PerterB> last time I needed to do that I ended up porting the Linux pam_access module which can make yes/no decisions based on unix groups or netgroups
[20:16:41] <trygvis> seems similiar to what I need: http://www.sunmanagers.org/pipermail/summaries/2002-January/000604.html
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[20:18:37] <PerterB> oh, yes... if the accounts are coming from an LDAP name service you can use exactly that method, but it's a trade-off (in fact the reason I ported the PAM module was to get away from that method to one using passwd: files ldap in nsswitch.conf)
[20:18:38] <Theoden-Nexenta> Hi trygvis
[20:19:18] <trygvis> hi
[20:19:24] <trygvis> why is that an issue?
[20:19:27] <PerterB> the reason it's a tradeoff is that the solaris LDAP client is much less efficient in that mode, and you have a situatin where accounts with no access simply aren't visible to solaris, so ls -l shows up numeric ids often
[20:19:57] <PerterB> but if that trade-off is acceptable to you, go for it :)
[20:20:05] <trygvis> hm, yeah, that will be annoying
[20:20:30] <trygvis> so this method basically removes the account from the system, not limiting the login itself
[20:20:36] <PerterB> right
[20:20:50] <trygvis> hmmm
[20:21:05] <trygvis> I'm a bit surprised that there isn't a standard pam module for this
[20:21:26] <PerterB> me too , but I couldn't find one other than pam_access
[20:21:56] <PerterB> you're welcome to have my port of it, but it was quick and dirty and will take me a while to dig out
[20:22:26] <delewis> you could also just setup the systems that restrict user logins to a different bind dn, I think.
[20:22:48] <trygvis> oh?
[20:22:51] <delewis> and just don't add those users to that passwd
[20:23:08] <trygvis> that doesn't scale very well
[20:23:19] <PerterB> that's what I was about to say :)
[20:23:20] <trygvis> it's about the same method as in that post
[20:23:24] <delewis> no, it doesn't, and you'd have to worry duplicates of users
[20:23:29] <trygvis> yah :)
[20:23:32] <trygvis> crap
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[20:24:16] <PerterB> or, you could but something in /etc/profile which rejects people based on some ldap attribute
[20:24:29] <trygvis> that's what I've implemented so far
[20:24:31] <PerterB> tacky though :)
[20:24:34] <trygvis> yep
[20:25:05] <trygvis> but a bit more portable as I can write it in sh
[20:26:07] <PerterB> hmm, maybe I should re-implement pam_access and submit it as an RFE (can't submit it directly as it's GPL and franky their original code is fugly)
[20:26:25] <trygvis> I would appreciate it at least :)
[20:27:05] <PerterB> well, like I said you can have the code or binaries as-is... I left it running on a large environment I came from with no major issues
[20:27:22] <trygvis> nah, I'll just let everyone log in
[20:27:26] * PerterB laughs
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[20:27:30] <trygvis> it's not that big of a deal
[20:27:31] <PerterB> can I?
[20:27:43] <trygvis> no :P
[20:27:48] * PerterB sulks
[20:27:53] <trygvis> .. everyone that has an account log in
[20:28:04] <trygvis> if you have a need I can make you a zone :)
[20:28:36] <PerterB> I have no need :)
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[20:30:00] <dwc-> restrict login based on group? just for ssh, ssh has its own allow/deny user/group
[20:30:12] <trygvis> oh?
[20:30:31] <trygvis> that it'll read from some naming service?
[20:30:32] <PerterB> yeah... allowgroup/denygroup in sshd_config
[20:31:18] <PerterB> yeah, it's just a group
[20:31:22] <dwc-> well, it does users/groups from the system users/groups, whether you get it from local files, ldap, etc.
[20:31:24] <trygvis> oooh, that;s exactly what I want
[20:31:41] <trygvis> shibby
[20:31:44] <dwc-> that's unix groups, not netgroups too
[20:31:59] <trygvis> good enough for me
[20:33:02] <PerterB> cool
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[20:36:01] <trygvis> just got to install courier and then I'll try it out
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[20:41:52] <_syphilis_> hm.. if i build a set of packages that install into /opt/foo, should their BASEDIR be /, /opt or /opt/foo?
[20:42:31] <trygvis> AFAIK /





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