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[00:28:57] <syndrome71> anyone here been playing with skype in a brandz zone?
[00:29:15] <syndrome71> I'm close, but cannot quite get over the line...
[00:29:15] *** Mazon is now known as mazon
[00:29:47] <syndrome71> When testing with the test call, I can hear the voice telling me to speak, but after I speak, I get nothing back...
[00:30:03] <syndrome71> seems that I cannot get anything from the line in device...
[00:30:06] <syndrome71> thoughts?
[00:30:22] <syndrome71> And yes - I checked that it actually works for the native Solaris global zone. :)
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[00:48:52] <nrubsig> !seen dduval
[00:48:56] <Drone> I've never seen dduval talk in #opensolaris.
[00:49:02] <nrubsig> umpf
[00:49:05] <nrubsig> !seen dduvall
[00:49:06] <Drone> dduvall (dduvall!i=dduvall@nat/sun/x-014bcf39eb958488) was last seen in #opensolaris on Mon 18 Dec 2006 18:22 GMT, saying 'Thanks, all.'.
[00:49:30] * nrubsig wishes Sun would support /usr/bin/finger
[00:50:12] <nrubsig> e.g. $ finger dduvall at sun dot com
[00:51:17] <jamesd> nrubsig, many in sun would love to give you the finger.
[00:52:05] <_syphilis_> is there any performance penalty from using svm soft partitions over raw metadevices?
[00:52:15] <Stric> probably
[00:52:51] <Stric> for real numbers, try it yourself at your workload :)
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[00:55:55] <_syphilis_> hm.. "split I/O problem"
[00:55:59] <_syphilis_> i hate raid
[00:57:33] <Stric> better than raid hating you :)
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[01:07:31] <nrubsig> jamesd: ?!
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[01:46:18] <aliquis> More proof Leopard comes with ZFS:
[01:46:19] <aliquis> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/leopard9a321/source/picture-1.html
[01:53:38] <sahafeez> as some that might or might not have inside info and may or may not have nda i can say for sure that leopard may or may not have zfs
[01:54:01] <Error_404> sahafeez: you work for apple?
[01:54:06] <sahafeez> no
[01:54:25] <aliquis> aliquis: but it has been obvious from screenshots for a while ;D
[01:54:26] <aliquis> err
[01:54:28] <sahafeez> but i may or may not have a few friends that do ;)
[01:54:30] <aliquis> stop talk to myself!"#%Y/I
[01:55:24] <aliquis> sahafeez: I guess it will be even more public knowledge on monday and tuesday
[01:55:31] <sahafeez> yes.
[01:55:34] <LeftWing> Leopard is ... 10.5?
[01:55:36] <sahafeez> big things i say
[01:55:37] <sahafeez> yes
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[01:57:13] <sahafeez> my wife has an old ibook g3/500 mhz that i over clocked to 600mhz w/100mhz fsb. it is getting a bit worn. the battery does not hold right and can go off if the system is bumped. i figured hey, ebay a used ibook g4 for her. they are still $800 bucks
[01:57:14] <LeftWing> Heh, that Time Machine UI looks like something from Stellar Cartography. =P
[01:58:27] <Error_404> the first thing i thought when i heard of time machine was "cute, they invented zfs"
[01:58:32] <Error_404> and the second thing was "or stole it"
[01:58:43] <aliquis> sahafeez: well according to mac fanatics last time apple said anything before macworld was 2002 and then they released lots of stuff
[01:58:46] <Error_404> apple's a very "innovative" company that way
[01:58:51] <aliquis> and this year they have an image for it on their webpage aswell
[01:59:01] <sahafeez> itv baby
[01:59:04] <sahafeez> 802.11n
[01:59:07] <sahafeez> etc..
[01:59:08] <aliquis> and in june they said there was "top secret" features to
[01:59:14] <sahafeez> 90% of the stuff out there is right
[01:59:19] <sahafeez> new UI, etc.
[01:59:24] <aliquis> yeah but 802.11n is not much of a secret since it's included in imac, macbook and macbook pro now
[01:59:25] <aliquis> ;d
[01:59:28] <dwc-> aliquis: that looks like exactly the same screenshot everyone else has been posting ....
[01:59:33] <sahafeez> makes vista look old
[01:59:48] <aliquis> to bad they never build a machine which fits ;D
[01:59:51] <LeftWing> Vista doesn't look old, it just looks shithouse.
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[02:00:26] * dwc- watches the apple hype machine spin up
[02:00:36] <aliquis> Error_404: not much of a secret that major part of their os are open source software? ;D
[02:00:47] * dwc- gets bored and goes back to reading data mining slides
[02:01:01] <aliquis> sahafeez: yeah will be nice to see if it's only quick look which is black or more.. =P
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[02:01:25] <aliquis> but isn't that like sort of admitting defeat to microsoft and saying "ok, vista looked better"? ;)
[02:01:41] <Error_404> I don't like the look of vista
[02:02:08] <aliquis> i don't like the transparency, except that i think it looks nice
[02:02:17] <sahafeez> hum. vista looks like a bad copy of os x 10.1
[02:02:44] <aliquis> http://home.tiscalinet.de/erich/grafiken/aquadesk.jpg yeah, sure looks like vista
[02:03:04] <aliquis> http://ls.berkeley.edu/lscr/advice/using/mac-os-x/macosx-1.JPG vista sp2?
[02:03:38] <Error_404> sahafeez: you really like macs, don't you?
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[02:04:41] <sahafeez> well i had a nextcube
[02:04:44] <aliquis> Error_404: I don't like macs, but i think i would like the os ;D
[02:04:51] <sahafeez> and ran nextstep on all my pc's so.
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[02:05:16] <Error_404> I like macs, but i don't think that they steal from windows any more than everyone else copies everyone else in the industry
[02:05:23] <sahafeez> aliquis mac hardware is the same price as dell now and 1000% better design and hardware
[02:05:36] <Error_404> "they stole it from windows" or "new $feature in windows looks like $feature in OSX'" is just zealot-talk
[02:05:43] <aliquis> http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/leopard9a321/source/picture-17.html oh, parents watching what websites you have visited and what you have said in ichat...
[02:05:43] <dwc-> urm......
[02:05:46] <aliquis> scary os ;D
[02:05:52] <sahafeez> hum. you have that the other way. ms r&d dep. is called apple computer
[02:06:03] <dwc-> sahafeez: what about all the hardware problems in the new macbooks?
[02:06:23] <Error_404> sahafeez: yeah, that sort of nonsense talk
[02:06:34] <aliquis> sahafeez: it's not the same price, it's around the same price when a new modell is released and much more expensive when it have become old
[02:06:36] <sahafeez> no more then anyone else has. if they fix it great. if they dont they should be held out to a public spanking
[02:06:49] <aliquis> sahafeez: Design is better, hardware depends, I would like to have better gpus/more vram.
[02:07:07] <aliquis> sahafeez: And of course if they could apply thermal grease correctly that would help aswell ;)
[02:07:11] <sahafeez> the top of line mac pro and a dell with the same setup is around the same. there have only been 100+ stories on this.
[02:07:24] <dwc-> ibm thinkpads > macbooks :)
[02:07:42] <tsoome> pc sucks;)
[02:07:45] <dwc-> 100+ stories, all linking to the same original article ;p
[02:07:46] <sahafeez> i worked for ibm - i like thinkpads. i like macbooks better
[02:07:49] <aliquis> sahafeez: Over in sweden I got the same prices on them, but in the usa I doubt it
[02:07:57] <aliquis> sahafeez: err, the macbook pro, read wrong
[02:08:02] <aliquis> yeah, the mac pro is cheap for what you get
[02:08:06] <Error_404> you can spec out a more powerful opteron for cheaper than what apple sells
[02:08:10] <aliquis> but i don't need anything like the mac pro and I'm not intrested
[02:08:18] <dwc-> iirc, the dell came out just as expensive if you added in every feature that was in the mac
[02:08:27] <dwc-> like... some ridiculously expensive firewire webcam
[02:08:40] <Stric> Error_404: as always.. but with a branded machine, you can be pretty confident that the hw works with eachother..
[02:08:45] <aliquis> Error_404: And an even more powerful conroe for cheaper than the opteron ;)
[02:09:08] <sahafeez> and lets be honest. the apple re-sell is more. i need a new ibook for my wife. a g4 800mhz-1.2mhz is still $800. and that is years old and a old cpu! the sony laptop thats is 2ghz i got last year is less the $600
[02:09:10] <Stric> aliquis: hard to put 2 conroes in a machine though
[02:09:31] <Error_404> there existed at one point a $700 acer aspire that was more powerful than the 1200$ macbook
[02:09:35] <dwc-> that's cuz there's the intel-haters still wanting those ppc machines!
[02:09:36] <aliquis> Stric: Except there have been lots of problems with macbooks and macbook pros overheating, turning of themself, gpu was underclocked, and so on
[02:09:47] <aliquis> Stric: And the mac pro not comming close to it's teoretical memory bandwidth
[02:10:09] <dwc-> heck, you can buy a new sony laptop for $600 :)
[02:10:10] <Stric> aliquis: mac pro has fbdimm, you doing calcs with that?
[02:10:11] <aliquis> Stric: Mac pro got two core 2 duo extremes/xeon modell of conroe in it
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[02:10:22] <Stric> aliquis: no, not conroe but woodcrest ;)
[02:10:31] <Stric> (ie xeon)
[02:10:42] <aliquis> and still i'm not intrested in multiple cpus
[02:10:45] <aliquis> i rather have a decent gpu
[02:10:53] <aliquis> they ship the mac pro with nv7300gt
[02:10:54] <Error_404> tbh, hyping "Microsoft stole $foo from OSX" just means that OSX offers nothing worth using, if the only thing marketing can come up with is "we did it first"
[02:10:55] <aliquis> yay!
[02:11:07] <aliquis> and the macbook pro with x1600 with 128MB ram
[02:11:12] <Error_404> because if that's a measure of value, use an Alto
[02:11:12] <aliquis> better save $30 on the memory!
[02:11:19] <sahafeez> yes but the macbook is a better design use, etc. and if you want to run os x. you are a person that cares about the design or not. i care and i find it more usefull in everyday to have a better designed product. so lets say the macbook is $600 more - ok over the 2 years i will use it - what ? .82 a day. big wow
[02:11:43] <Error_404> better designed to overheat, or better designed for the battery to explode?
[02:11:54] <aliquis> Stric: So if you want multiple cpus get the woodcrest and it will still own the opterons, right?
[02:11:59] <sahafeez> sorry that was not just an apple issue
[02:12:02] <Stric> aliquis: yes.
[02:12:11] <Stric> aliquis: opterons use fbdimm now too
[02:12:14] <aliquis> so point is still valid
[02:12:31] <dwc-> so what exactly is "better design" anyways
[02:12:36] <sahafeez> specmarks on intel vs. amd right now are in intels court.
[02:12:38] * Stric is getting lost about which point is referred to :)
[02:12:41] <dwc-> other than that it was "designed" to run os x
[02:12:44] <Error_404> dwc-: it's trendyer?
[02:12:46] <aliquis> macbooks are rather fat aswell
[02:12:53] <aliquis> only the macbook pro is thin ;)
[02:13:21] <Error_404> better designed to limit what you can do with your computer ( Trusted Computing Platform Module: now with every macintosh )
[02:13:31] <sahafeez> dwc-: really depends on what you like. i like that fact that on my ibook the power connector is green when charged and yellow when charging. little things like that
[02:13:48] <Error_404> sahafeez: I have lights on my notebook that do that as well
[02:13:49] <sahafeez> Error_404: bullshit. they pulled the chip
[02:13:50] <Error_404> I paid $499
[02:13:56] <aliquis> Stric: point was that he said "oh you can build an opteron beating the mac", and i just meant that you could build an intel machine which beat the opteron.
[02:13:57] <dwc-> my thinkpad does that...
[02:14:00] <Error_404> sahafeez: no, I assure you they did not
[02:14:05] <sahafeez> yes they did
[02:14:08] <dwc-> but it's between the keyboard and the screen
[02:14:15] <Error_404> sahafeez: then OSX won't boot
[02:14:18] <Stric> aliquis: ah. I agree. it all depends on what you're trying to do.
[02:14:21] <aliquis> Error_404: on the other hand if you don't want drm don't buy drm content
[02:14:29] <sahafeez> yes it will. it is not in the new motherboards.
[02:14:30] <aliquis> Error_404: noone forces you just because the hardware supports it
[02:14:50] <aliquis> sahafeez: they haven't pulled tpm, it's just in the cpu now instead
[02:15:06] <sahafeez> hum. i will have to verify that
[02:15:23] <aliquis> Error_404: rather useless to use tpm for making os x don't boot now when the key is known
[02:15:24] <aliquis> ;D
[02:15:35] <Error_404> rosetta is encrypted with the TCPM, aqua is native PPC binary
[02:15:49] <Error_404> you need rosetta to run aqua, therefore you need the TCPM to run aqua
[02:16:05] <Error_404> and without aqua, why bother running OSX, darwin's a terrible kernel
[02:16:22] <aliquis> sahafeez: First people said "oh, no tpm in the new macbook pros!" and then they noticed it was because it's in the cpus now instead..
[02:16:27] <aliquis> so no need for additional chip for it
[02:16:44] <sahafeez> apple does not give a shit about drm or anything like that. the drm is itunes is the min needed to get the riaa and mpaa to shut up. it is weak and broken and they do not care. they do not really care about booting os x on non-apple hardware. it is a geek thing and not part of the ipod market so they do not care and only will make a show of caring when it is rubbed in their face
[02:17:47] <Error_404> you actually believe that apple's that benevolant?
[02:17:50] <aliquis> new os x 10.4.8 dvd didn't wanted to boot on my machine, i will try after making a whatever partition from within windows later but i'm to tired to do that now ;)
[02:18:17] <Error_404> they're a wonderful company run by hippies & flowers and wouldn't do anything to harm consumers even if noone'd know/care & they could turn a tidy profit doing it?
[02:18:20] <sommerfeld> any crypto engineer worth his/her salt will say that leakproof drm is impossible.  so no crypto engineer working on drm actually gives a shit about doing a quality job.
[02:18:21] <sahafeez> no but i do not think they are evil. they are a compnay.
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[02:18:52] <sommerfeld> hence any drm system falls apart quickly when subjected to a concerted attack.
[02:18:53] <dwc-> sommerfeld: do you really believe crypto engineers have no pride in their work?
[02:19:01] <aliquis> I much rather just buy a mac if it wasn't because I can't upgrade the iMac and I think for the amount of money of the 20" and 24" version I would like to have better gfx. And the low end macbook pro got only 128MB vram and if i opt for middle one I'll to pay around $300 more for 7% faster cpu of which I'm not intrested.
[02:19:13] <sommerfeld> i don't believe any crypto engineer WORKING ON DRM has any pride
[02:19:28] <sahafeez> you do not by a mac for that aliquis. you by it to run os x.
[02:19:31] <aliquis> Error_404: Everything they do is to get money, release shitty low end modells, sell os updates, .. ;D
[02:19:34] <dlg> sommerfeld: i agree
[02:20:00] <Error_404> aliquis: more or less, yeah
[02:20:11] <aliquis> sahafeez: For what?
[02:20:15] <aliquis> You are right
[02:20:18] <aliquis> I don't buy a mac...
[02:20:27] <aliquis> but if apple didn't built machines which was shit I would buy one
[02:21:06] <dlg> aliquis: its an appliance
[02:21:13] <sahafeez> aliquis: sorry but solaris does not cut it for a desktop for my mother or wife. os x does. no issues like windows.
[02:21:14] <Error_404> I bought a used G4 mini off a sucker because I have a wife who shouldn't have to wrestle with computers
[02:21:40] <aliquis> sahafeez: So your point is that because solaris sucks as desktop shitty hardware from apple is ok?
[02:21:42] <aliquis> makes sense
[02:21:48] <Error_404> it's not bad
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[02:22:08] <Error_404> picked it up a short while ago
[02:22:29] <stevel> speaking of which - anyone want to buy an xserve g4?
[02:22:31] <Stric> aliquis: have you seen the inside of an iMac and tried putting it on full load? then you know why you can't put in a 7950gtx in there
[02:22:39] <sahafeez> apple does not make shitty hardware. just look at the resale value on ebay. sorry you are just plan wrong. my ibook is a great laptop. rock solid and just works and does not break.
[02:22:46] <sahafeez> stevel how much
[02:23:06] <aliquis> Error_404: Low end macbook pro is $2890 in Sweden, and apples cheap out on vram and puts 128MB in it, it's that bad..
[02:23:08] <Stric> aliquis: it's basically half an 1U server but without the noise
[02:23:28] <sahafeez> please tell me what you need more then 128mb of vram for on a laptop
[02:23:29] <sahafeez> ?
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[02:23:46] <sahafeez> fuck most desktop still only come with 64
[02:23:55] <dwc-> uh, really?
[02:23:58] <stevel> sahafeez: i dunno, i suppose i should find out how much its worth
[02:24:01] <dwc-> even low-end graphics cards come with 128....
[02:24:02] <Stric> http://www.cs.umu.se/~stric/tmp/mac-pr0n.jpg <- inside of iMac
[02:24:06] <aliquis> Stric: I don't care, I haven't said I would prefer the design of the iMac even, but it is what they offer and the gpu isn't as good as I would like it to be in such an expensive computer which you can't upgrade.
[02:24:07] * stevel goes to ebay
[02:24:41] <aliquis> sahafeez: Resell value is high because 1) Apple machines was expensive 2) You need to have one if you are going to use OS X and 3) Mac buyers are retards ;D
[02:24:46] <Error_404> the g4 imacs were kinna neat looking, the new ones are ugly
[02:24:47] <sahafeez> aliquis the imac is an appliance. that is what you do not get
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[02:25:04] <aliquis> sahafeez: Whatever, I want a computer
[02:25:08] <aliquis> I don't give a shit about what it is
[02:25:12] <Stric> then you don't want an iMac :)
[02:25:21] <sahafeez> aliquis ok, let me know when you make as much $$ and impact on the world as steve jobs.
[02:25:26] <aliquis> Stric: No, I want a non-retarded macbook pro
[02:25:27] <aliquis> ;D
[02:25:31] <Stric> :)
[02:25:32] <Error_404> steve jobs makes $1 a year
[02:25:47] <Error_404> as for impact on the world...
[02:26:01] <Error_404> i dunno, does lead waste in landfills count, or do you mean something else?
[02:26:48] <dwc-> that's not a very fair claim
[02:26:49] <aliquis> sahafeez: ok, why I need over 128MB vram in my laptop: 1) I will use an external screen. 2) Not very likely that usage of Core Image will get lower. 3) Core animation in Leopard will probably use even more vram. 4) I want to play games. 5) Vista on over 2.3 mp screen needs 256MB vram so 128MB with external screen wont cut it.
[02:27:27] <aliquis> sahafeez: But mostly because since I can't upgrade it later I want 256MB to make sure I won't have to change my mind and think I was a retard which got a machine with 128MB in case I notice it's to little.
[02:27:43] <edp> vista really requires that much vram?
[02:28:01] <stevel> sahafeez: it's a single cpu 1ghz, 512 MB - 60gb drive with a second drive carrier
[02:28:29] <stevel> how much is that worth? $400?
[02:28:42] <aliquis> sahafeez: 128MB more vram would be cheap, there is no excuse to not use it except mac retards "omg you don't get a mac to play games!!!" (Like if they don't want to.. thing is just that games runs like shit because the computers suck..). However I would like to hear the excuse to why everyone needs top of the line cpus in macs? MHz myth anyone?
[02:28:45] <sahafeez> hum. i run my ibook at 1024x768 and a external monitor at 1440x900 (29 inch wide screen lcd) just fine with 32mb of VRM and it works great
[02:28:59] <richlowe> stevel: less, probably.
[02:29:00] <stevel> has a radeon card of some kind in it too if that's worth anything to you
[02:29:14] <sahafeez> aliquis you are not worth arguing with.
[02:29:17] <Stric> sahafeez: you didn't get aero then I think
[02:29:32] <richlowe> though if it's a mac, tack $500 onto the price.
[02:29:37] <richlowe> apple do, why not join in? :)
[02:29:46] <aliquis> edp: Vista with 3d aero needs 64MB vram for up to 1.3 mp display, 128MB for up to 2.3 mp and 256MB for anything above
[02:29:47] <stevel> richlowe: yeah, i see a 1.33ghz w/ 1gb ram that sold on ebay for $455, so yeah - $400 is probably high
[02:30:03] <stevel> though the drive trays seem to be insanely expensive for this thing
[02:30:17] <aliquis> edp: And since core image on macs does similair things I assume os x likes vram aswell
[02:30:18] <Stric> aliquis: and you want to run >1920x1200 off your laptop? does it even have dual link dvi?
[02:30:21] <sahafeez> no, aero needs the ram becuase ms sucks at coding. expose works fine in this setup with 32mb and i run with all effects on with now issues. areo needs the ram because ms cannot code.
[02:30:29] <stevel> sahafeez: if you're in the bay area, make me an offer and it's yours - i just don't want to ship the damn thing anywhere
[02:30:33] <dwc-> you only get 1440x900 on a 29" wide screen?
[02:30:35] <aliquis> Stric: I want to run 1440x900 on the macbook pro and 1680x1050 on an external 20" tft
[02:30:37] <stevel> (assuming it's a reasonable offer)
[02:30:38] <sahafeez> in san diego.
[02:30:39] <aliquis> Stric: Is that so weird?
[02:30:44] <edp> aliquis, ah ok, that makes sense, i had done 1.3 mp with 64 mb so 256 mb for more than 2.3 seemed excessive
[02:30:58] <Stric> aliquis: hrm. right.
[02:31:00] <stevel> ah bummer.
[02:31:05] <stevel> though i am going to san diego in a couple of weeks
[02:31:24] <aliquis> Stric: That is 3 mpx in total
[02:31:29] <Error_404> sahafeez: expose isn't 3d anything, it's just a novel use of display postscript
[02:31:44] <aliquis> so no vista 3d aero on the macbook pro with external screen if it only has 128MB vram
[02:31:47] <sahafeez> mac is not display postscript anymore. that was next.
[02:31:48] <Stric> with a crappy scaling algorithm
[02:31:55] <Error_404> fine, display PDF
[02:31:56] <dwc-> the 30" mac and dell lcds have a native res of 2560x1600
[02:31:59] <aliquis> and if the gpu is good enough 128MB texture ram for games might be a bottleneck aswell
[02:32:00] <Error_404> it's the same thing
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[02:32:14] <sahafeez> fuck i just got a wii and ps3 for games
[02:32:21] <aliquis> (02:29:09) (sahafeez) aliquis you are not worth arguing with.
[02:32:22] <aliquis> thanks ;D
[02:32:37] <edp> sahafeez, wii is fun :)
[02:32:49] <aliquis> I see this as a waste of time aswell, I've said it so many times but mac retards always tries to convince themself why shit is actually gold
[02:33:06] <sahafeez> you have made up your mind and have a set view of what you want. you are not in apples market. no point in argueing about it
[02:34:13] <aliquis> i am, because i want the os
[02:34:14] <aliquis> ;d
[02:34:21] <Stric> and why should apple care about you running vista? :)
[02:34:54] <dwc-> I think aliquis's argument was that apple was "cheap'ing out"
[02:35:01] <aliquis> Stric: Well if they don't care if everyone is running vista why make machines at all?
[02:35:23] <aliquis> dwc-: Thing is that the macbook pro low end got plenty of cpu, 2.13ghz merom i think
[02:35:29] <aliquis> but 128MB vram..
[02:35:40] <aliquis> and it would probably cost them a like $30 or whatever to make that 256MB
[02:35:47] <aliquis> probably less
[02:35:54] <Stric> aliquis: I believe they have this thing called "MacOSX" they want you to run.. ;)
[02:35:56] <dwc-> I'm aware of that, having shopped for video cards
[02:36:31] <aliquis> I want 2GB in any case but if we count the price difference to the middle model the expected price for 256MB vram and the 1GB ram.. or the price difference if you look at cpu prices alone, the 2.3GHz will cost me like $300 more
[02:36:45] <aliquis> and I'm not intrested in getting a 7% faster cpu for such a high premium
[02:36:46] <aliquis> =P
[02:36:57] <aliquis> a 1.4GHz one would do aswell ;)
[02:36:58] <Stric> that's probably intels fault
[02:37:19] <aliquis> Stric: I can understand why apple want the top of the line cpu
[02:37:25] <aliquis> it's their premium line of laptops
[02:37:43] <Stric> and you want the low end to have "high end" stuff
[02:37:47] <aliquis> but in that case i would have wanted to see a cheaper model with decent gpu, not integrated graphics =P
[02:37:53] <aliquis> yeah, sort of
[02:37:54] <aliquis> ;D
[02:38:05] <aliquis> more custom options please =P
[02:38:25] <Stric> .. will cause all machines to be more expensive
[02:38:46] <aliquis> better a little more expensive than a whole machine i will regrett buying
[02:38:58] <dwc-> guess apple better get dell's market share
[02:39:07] <Stric> so then it's settled.. you will buy the middle end machine.
[02:39:20] <aliquis> Stric: Ah, you mean if they care if i run vista on the macbook, I'm with you then
[02:39:39] <aliquis> nah, I don't think they care, and I doubt I would use vista a lot on it either
[02:39:42] <dwc-> I think if I had a macbook, it'd run linux
[02:39:46] <dwc-> and then it'd go sit on a shelf
[02:39:56] <aliquis> but still dual screen + core image + core animation + one game might want more vram than 128MB
[02:39:59] <dwc-> that's if I didn't ebay it, that is
[02:40:01] <Stric> aliquis: they are not designing their laptops for you to run vista with large external monitor on their low end machine
[02:40:08] <aliquis> I have no idea how much vram core image and core animation wants, but anyway =P
[02:40:17] <dwc-> it's not just vista though, it's games too
[02:40:26] <dwc-> and any 3d apps that use vram for textures, etc.
[02:40:35] <aliquis> Stric: since when is the macbook pro a low end machine?
[02:40:54] <Stric> aliquis: "02:35 (aliquis) dwc-: Thing is that the macbook pro low end ..."
[02:41:01] <aliquis> and still why do they design their machines with very fast cpus but quite shitty/very shitty gpus?
[02:41:17] <dwc-> because they need the fast CPUs to run aqua and the finder
[02:41:22] <dwc-> ;)
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[02:42:00] <Error_404> because the OSX kernel chews through CPU cycles
[02:42:01] <aliquis> yeah, and transisition effects because the integrated gpu doesn't cut it? ;/
[02:42:17] <Error_404> mach = no good
[02:42:38] <Stric> we have a g5 xserve.. it's fun to hit the middle mouse button by accident (and get the dashboard thingie).. it's way slow :)
[02:42:52] <aliquis> Error_404: OS X and Java is pretty much the same, for some reason you can always make the next version much faster ;)
[02:43:42] <Error_404> heh, yeah... sun's "fastest java ever!" marketing
[02:43:53] <Error_404> i must say though, I didn't really notice a difference
[02:44:07] <Stric> I measured that hello world starts faster
[02:44:14] <aliquis> but anyway, back in the ppc days benchmark performance on apple machines was all about photoshop
[02:44:16] <aliquis> due to altivec
[02:44:31] <aliquis> when they switched to intel it was all about specfp and specint instead
[02:44:32] <aliquis> ;d
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[02:44:55] <aliquis> and somewhere in between they had a benchmark of one of their machines benchmarked against a machine from apple
[02:44:58] <aliquis> err, dell
[02:45:01] <aliquis> G4 in the apple
[02:45:05] <aliquis> P4 in the dell
[02:45:14] <aliquis> and the benchmark was a game, and the Apple machine won!
[02:45:23] <Stric> go netburst
[02:45:27] <aliquis> Why? Different graphics cards, radeon 9600 in the mac and x300 in the dell ;D
[02:45:34] <dwc-> lies, damn lies, statistics, and benchmarks :)
[02:45:56] <aliquis> omg, apples so much faster in games!!
[02:46:10] <aliquis> * Only valid when the pc got the shittiest low end graphics card you can find.
[02:46:11] <aliquis> ;D
[02:47:25] <dwc-> oh, I would have sold them a voodoo card
[02:49:10] <aliquis> I heard the rumors/facts that Nivida was working on the xbox360 gpu and let the newly bought 3dfx team make the 5th generation geforce cards from them.. the fx series, turned out good ;), so they skipped the xbox360 gpu and went back to business with nv6xxx series ;)
[02:49:21] <Stric> btw, graphics cards do make a difference.. had an a64/2GHz w/ geforce4200.. upgraded to a c2d 2*2.1GHz and geforce7600gt.. before, doom3 would "almost" run in 640x480 low quality.. now it's no problem at all in 1680x1050 ultra quality ;)
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[02:49:47] <aliquis> the 7600 gt owns the x1600 in the macs ;/
[02:49:57] <Stric> ati drivers suck anyhow
[02:49:59] <aliquis> especielly when it's the mobility variant and 30% underclocked
[02:50:00] <aliquis> ;D
[02:50:05] <aliquis> Stric: that to
[02:50:31] <aliquis> I guess their choice of Intel cpus and AMD buying ATI might make the next gen macs Nivida equiped
[02:50:53] <aliquis> thought ATI mobile chips are better than nvidia aren't they?
[02:50:59] <Stric> no clue
[02:51:13] <aliquis> i think nv7600gt is much better than x1600, but x1600 mobility is much better than nv7600 go
[02:52:50] <Stric> a few times faster
[02:52:51] <dwc-> looks like there's a gefroce go 7600 gt
[02:53:34] <aliquis> i don't know if dell xps line uses any go chips at all or what they use, there much be some reason why they are over 40mm thick i guess
[02:53:41] <aliquis> must even
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[02:55:19] <Stric> they have some with go and some without
[02:55:42] <Stric> doesn't beat a dual bull frog though :)
[02:56:55] <Stric> two ultrasparcs, full length 64/66 pci, two disks, 16GB memory.. only 10kg or so
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[02:59:06] <Error_404> ugh
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[02:59:31] <Error_404> hot, heavy, and gigantic
[02:59:44] <Stric> they call it a mobile server..
[02:59:46] <Error_404> why not chuck a t2000 on your back and carry that around
[02:59:54] <dwc-> doesn't beat it in what, weight? :)
[02:59:55] <Error_404> it'd probably hurt less
[03:00:14] <dwc-> the graphics performance on the dell xps might be better still though
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[03:01:01] <Stric> I think it's hard to beat a 7950 gtx with a pci card
[03:01:10] <Error_404> as far as I understand it the graphics performance on an intel integrated POS is likely to outperform the bullfrog
[03:01:32] <Stric> probably
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[03:02:03] <dwc-> the bullfrog appears to have an xvr-100 compatible 24-bit 2d graphics card with 32mb sdram
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[03:02:19] <Stric> xvr-100 is radeon7000, no?
[03:02:57] <dwc-> something like that
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[03:03:05] <dwc-> basically, it'd put up a fight against my thinkpad's radeon mobility
[03:03:13] <dlg> anyone have any idea where to get SUNWhd from?
[03:03:59] <UnixTitan> cd
[03:05:11] <dlg> which one?
[03:05:32] <Stric> say dvd and you're safe, say cd and you might get followup questions :)
[03:05:44] <dlg> its not on the 1106 dvd
[03:06:09] <Stric> agree
[03:06:24] <Stric> you're not missing a char or so?
[03:06:31] <dlg> nope
[03:06:44] <dlg> http://docs.sun.com/source/819-6562-11/chapter6.html
[03:06:44] <Stric> not in sxcr54 either
[03:07:19] <Stric> oh, x86 stuff
[03:07:31] <dlg> ja
[03:09:12] <onbot> commit by qz150045:  6508502 PS/2 keyboards layout can't be configured during the installation on x86
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[03:09:39] <alanc> yay!   been waiting for that commit
[03:09:58] <Error_404> dvorak here I come
[03:12:10] <Netwolf> Does anyone here wear a Baume et Mercier?
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[03:30:03] <Stric> Is there a way to make a "crash dump", but not actually reboot? I don't mind that much if it freezes up for a while while dumping into swap
[03:30:57] <_syphilis_> savecore -L
[03:31:13] <_syphilis_> it doesn't halt the system while dumping so it's not guaranteed to be consistent
[03:31:32] <_syphilis_> iirc there's an mdb command like $<dump but i'm not sure how destructive that is.. (but you could break to kmdb to run it, which halts)
[03:33:18] * Stric tries savecore -L
[03:33:30] <Stric> it's mostly statistics I'm after..
[03:34:10] <Stric> [zfs-discuss] ZFS related (probably) hangs due to memory exhaustion(?) with snv53 <- followup to that one with snv54 eating up all ram too
[03:35:20] <richlowe> _syphilis_: you're thinking of $<systempdump, it forces a panic, it doesn't dump live.
[03:35:34] <richlowe> '$<systemdump' that is.
[03:37:24] <Stric> it was looking so good there for a while :/
[03:38:46] <Stric> not that nice when your fileserver runs out of memory every day :P
[03:39:01] <_syphilis_> "ZFS: the memory testing filesystem"
[03:53:39] <_syphilis_> hmm, the sustained read ops/sec on this array is suspiciously close to 200.  i wonder if i did something wrong.
[03:56:27] <Stric> 5ms avg time? :)
[03:56:37] <Stric> on the ift?
[03:56:42] <_syphilis_> asvc_t is ~10
[03:56:43] <_syphilis_> yes
[03:58:24] <Stric> I get around 1500 with dd bs=512
[03:58:44] <_syphilis_> yeah, sequential is fine.  this is innodb.. almost entirely random access
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[03:59:07] <_syphilis_> i suppose maybe it's not so bad.
[03:59:12] <_syphilis_> they are crappy SATA disks :)
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[04:04:42] <onbot> commit by Bhargava Yenduri:  6509484 Needless calls to KCF_PROV_REFHOLD() in some routines
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[04:07:35] * Stric heads for bed instead of trying to figure out more about the memory problems
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[04:34:42] <onbot> commit by lh195018:  PSARC/2006/672 USCSI LUN reset flag; 6299480 JIST:  USCSICMD does not support LUN Reset.; 6451061 target drivers could make use of a common uscsi mechanism
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[05:21:23] <Error_404> I live in bizzaro world
[05:21:55] <Error_404> a world where I catch myself getting annoyed at linux for being so popular, and have to grudgingly keep a linux partition around for software support
[05:22:16] <_syphilis_> if you find linux annoying you probably need to readjust your priorities
[05:22:21] <_syphilis_> it's only computer software
[05:22:35] <dlg> linux is annoying
[05:22:38] <jbk> well it can be if you have to deal with it
[05:22:50] <edp> Error_404, spend a few weeks with windows and you'll love linux again
[05:22:58] <_syphilis_> s/annoying/annoying because it's popular/
[05:23:11] <Error_404> I haven't so much as checked email on windows in about 8 years
[05:25:25] <edp> must be nice
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[05:26:06] <Error_404> it's alright
[05:29:07] <edp> linux has suited me well on my laptop for a while though i've wanted to give sxcr a spin on it
[05:57:31] <whaq> chmod -x chmod
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[05:58:45] <Tpenta>  /usr/bin/perl -e 'chmod "/usr/bin/chmod", 0755;'
[05:58:48] <Tpenta> :)
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[06:00:56] <MikeTLive> spend a decade with Solaris and you will shun every linux user.
[06:01:16] <Tpenta> that's a pretty broad generalisation
[06:01:19] <Stric> /lib/ld.so.1 /bin/chmod +x /bin/chmod
[06:01:25] <Tpenta> that I think that *I* would be the disproof of.
[06:01:27] <dlg> thats a pretty long time
[06:01:53] <MikeTLive> its been a long time.
[06:02:12] <Tpenta> zealot perhaps, but not the average user
[06:02:39] <Tpenta> but then again I dislike zealots of anything
[06:02:56] <Stric> I've used Solaris for about 10 years and I don't shun myself
[06:03:25] <MikeTLive> 15y. crap. do i count a condecending unix user --- checks beard length... checks to make sure no shoes on feet... ---
[06:03:33] <Error_404> lol
[06:03:54] <MikeTLive> nah. i m just tired of people spouting linux is a cureall but cant tell me the reason it is right and solaris is wrong.
[06:04:01] <Tpenta> and even shun i spretty strong. I just get annoyed with anyone who would claim that <insert favourite OS> is the best thing since cliced bread, even though they have never looked at anything else to be able to make any real sort of comparison
[06:04:09] <MikeTLive> when all you have is a hammer. everything is a nail.
[06:05:02] <Tpenta> All OS's havetheir place, but to claim that something is so good that it can do everything and that all others should just forget about playing, is, .... short sighted and narrowminded
[06:05:33] * Stric uses Solaris for what it's good at, Debian dito, Windows dito
[06:05:42] <Tpenta> precicely
[06:05:44] <MikeTLive> yup.
[06:06:09] <Stric> I won't try to use Windows as a file server and I won't use Solaris for gaming
[06:06:19] <Stric> etc
[06:06:22] <Stric> ad nausea
[06:06:27] <MikeTLive> nethack.
[06:06:38] <Tpenta> there was someone on here some momths back talking about how crap solaris is for multimedia and video editing etc, ... relistically, anyone who wants to do that professionally is not going to use Solaris, nor will they use linux or windows , they'll use mac
[06:06:57] <Stric> Tpenta: the reply is "yep."
[06:07:41] <MikeTLive> the E450 was designed as a graphics processing workstation if I remember. its built in arrays for image processing. and the UPA bus for video... (I think it has the upa)
[06:07:49] <Tpenta> yes, there are a few things I"d love to be able to do on my solaris notebook, but cannot (yet).... eg I *really* want to try jokosher on it once some of the gnome and linux dependancies have been fixed up
[06:08:23] <Tpenta> My last job, we got one of the first 45's in australia, as a fileserver, which is something it was not being pushed as, but what a bloody wonderful fileserver they made
[06:08:45] <Tpenta> s/45's/450's/p
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[06:12:03] <dlg> the v880z is a v880 with a gfx board instead of a cpu board
[06:12:06] <MikeTLive> nice little dorm fridges.
[06:12:13] <dlg> that would be some nice bw to the gpu
[06:13:59] <Stric> does it beat a 2 year old ati/nvidia card? :P
[06:14:18] <dlg> probably not
[06:14:50] <dlg> but its harder to steal
[06:15:19] <Error_404> MikeTLive: that's what a VAX is for
[06:15:27] <MikeTLive> i am quite kegerator
[06:15:29] <jamesd> Stric, depends on the options... the card in the  880z has proffesional output options.
[06:15:44] <MikeTLive> ^s/i am quite//
[06:15:53] <Stric> jamesd: professional as in "expensive and you can't find anything to put it in" ? :)
[06:16:20] <Stric> I guess stereo etc..
[06:16:33] <Error_404> http://toyvax.glendale.ca.us/~vance/vaxbar.html
[06:16:36] <jamesd> Stric, as in  it has outputs you won't find on the cheap nvidia commity card.
[06:17:09] <Stric> Error_404: http://tomas.ogren.pp.se/gallery/oxebar .. I have an e3000 bar..
[06:18:00] <Stric> converting our old file server into booz server ;)
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[06:19:31] <MikeTLive> hehe.
[06:19:49] <MikeTLive> show of hands - how many keep a six beneath the floor panels?
[06:20:08] <Error_404> toilet tank
[06:20:17] <Error_404> stays cold that way
[06:20:24] <Stric> .. fridge?
[06:20:37] <MikeTLive> keeps people from stealing em too.
[06:21:03] <Stric> doesn't seem like the correct solution to the problem..
[06:21:43] <MikeTLive> at every "company meeting" type event thing we would each grab a few extras and stick em up next to the leiberts to keep em chilled. we could have opened a store.
[06:22:19] <MikeTLive> i bet theres still some there. been 11yrs since that job
[06:25:37] <Error_404> offtopic... what's that word...
[06:25:40] <Error_404> for rule by birthright
[06:25:49] <Error_404> like, when kings pass on the kingship to their son
[06:25:54] <Error_404> i think it starts with an s
[06:25:59] <Stric> sucker? :)
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[06:26:52] <Tpenta> I think you are actually looking for something like monarchy
[06:27:05] <Error_404> no, it's not rule by crown that i'm looking for
[06:27:14] <Error_404> it's just a general "passing on power to your kids"
[06:27:18] <Tpenta> or dynastic
[06:27:26] <Tpenta> (dynasty)
[06:28:14] <MikeTLive> nepotism
[06:28:21] <LeftWing> sovereignty?
[06:28:26] <Tpenta> sovereignty?
[06:28:27] <Tpenta> snap
[06:28:34] <LeftWing> =)
[06:28:43] <MikeTLive> GWB?
[06:28:53] <Tpenta> leftwing is also looking at thesaurus.com ?
[06:29:06] <LeftWing> No, LeftWing is just awesome. =P
[06:29:07] <Error_404> nepotism, thank you!
[06:29:31] <Tpenta> nepotism is not just "ruling"
[06:29:42] <Error_404> Tpenta: yes, i know
[06:29:48] <Error_404> but it's the word i was looking for
[06:29:55] <Error_404> it was on the tip of my tongue
[06:29:57] <Tpenta> :)
[06:30:01] * LeftWing goes to find the communal laptop.
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[06:40:35] <syndrome71> tpenta: you round?
[06:40:49] <Tpenta> well kinda after all that christmas food
[06:40:54] <Error_404> heh
[06:41:23] <syndrome71> I know whay you mean...
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[06:44:27] <MikeTLive> mmmmm still have some turkey.
[06:44:54] <Error_404> i think it'dve gone sketchy by now
[06:45:36] <syndrome71> mmm... turkey... algagalgalgalga
[06:46:21] <MikeTLive> MMmmmm snouts.
[06:46:47] <Error_404> and jowels
[06:47:49] <MikeTLive> when i bought my christmas turkey the store had 12lb fresh uncured hams.
[06:47:58] <MikeTLive> almost bought two to put in the smoker.
[06:48:19] <MikeTLive> i think i will have to do some Q this weekend.
[06:48:26] <syndrome71> and with thoughts of turkey, snouts, hams and jowels, I think i'm gonna make a run for it. Nighty night all.
[06:48:52] <MikeTLive> does turkey have a snout, ham or jowl?
[06:48:59] <MikeTLive> eeeewwwwww.
[06:49:06] <MikeTLive> GMO
[06:49:41] * Error_404 is the only vegetarian in the joint, apparantly
[06:50:06] <MikeTLive> vegetables is what food eats.
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[08:03:20] <nrubsig> can anyone get the person who wrote posix_spawn() here, please ?
[08:03:23] <nrubsig>  !NOW!
[08:03:41] <nrubsig> I'd like to skin him/her alive.
[08:04:28] <nrubsig> posix_spawn() fails to setup the process group propperly and that just caused nearly three days of horrifying debugging.
[08:04:52] * nrubsig likes to give some of the pain away - in the most painfull way imaginable.
[08:05:05] <dlg> aww
[08:05:07] <nrubsig> f*ck
[08:05:08] <dlg> sounds like you need huggz
[08:05:29] <nrubsig> dlg: I don't need hugs, I want to see a head on a stick
[08:05:48] <nrubsig> perferable in front of the main entrance of the sun campus.
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[09:20:34] <nrubsig> good n'ight :-)
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[09:31:18] <asyd> \_o<
[09:32:39] <cmihai> Always wanted to ask you..
[09:32:44] <cmihai> What's that supposed to mean?
[09:33:01] <myrkraverk> \_o< is a bird
[09:33:07] <cmihai> That so..
[09:33:27] <asyd> a duck, even
[09:33:50] <myrkraverk> and how does a swan look like?
[09:34:05] <cmihai> Hm.. damn, my drives are makeing strange noises every 20 seconds
[09:34:08] <cmihai> Sort of like a telephone
[09:34:12] <cmihai> crrrrrrrRC
[09:34:40] <myrkraverk> cmihai: have you tried to answer?
[09:34:45] <cmihai> Hehe
[09:34:57] <quasi> cmihai: time to copy off any data you want to keep
[09:34:57] <myrkraverk> and I'm off
[09:35:08] <cmihai> Actually, it's very much like a modem
[09:35:33] <cmihai> quasi: nah, RAID-5, hotspare, backups.
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[09:35:57] <cmihai> And they're all SCSI drives. And all looks fine. It's just the modem sounds...
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[09:57:19] <LordKing> can i access a new installed solaris 10u3 box over XNest form another maschine?
[09:58:03] <dlg> should be able to
[09:58:12] <dlg> i used x forwarding and xnest on the "new" machine to do it
[09:58:19] <dlg> with ssh
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[10:08:59] <bougie> hello
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[10:26:01] <Berny> morning
[10:26:24] <whaq> moin
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[10:42:21] <LordKing> how i add over the console a user? useradd -m catlan report that i can't create the home
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[10:43:41] <lasseoe> useradd -d /export/home/muppet -m muppet
[10:43:43] <Fish> hello
[10:43:54] <LordKing> thx
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[10:51:05] <mman> hi all
[10:51:18] <mman> anyone willing to help me get /dev/stderr working in chroot?
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[11:01:11] <raph_ael> hello
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[11:18:59] <jteo> hello *
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[12:40:41] <lloy0076> Back on Internet again :)
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[13:34:39] <sickness> i'm back
[13:35:57] <trygvis> oh no
[13:37:35] <jteo> :)
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[13:50:06] <jteo> wb darrenm.
[13:51:21] <lloy0076> Slay them all!
[13:51:31] * lloy0076 that was random
[13:51:57] <lloy0076> I am considering writing the random scheduler (just for the fun of it).
[13:52:21] <jteo> ...
[13:53:11] <lloy0076> ...i.e. something like the FSS but where the effective time slice(s) was random.
[13:53:25] <lloy0076> It's totally just *wrong* but it seems to me a useful thought exercise.
[13:53:26] <jteo> it would be good just for the learning experience. :)
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[13:54:26] <lloy0076> I'm thinking that I could try to understand the current FSS and then replace the 'make them equal' with 'you've got random times baby' bits.
[13:54:28] <lloy0076> :P
[13:54:29] <cmihai> UFS limited to 16TB?
[13:54:57] <sickness> http://www.century.co.jp/products/hd/ex35s4b.html <- iii I'd like one of those to play with =)
[13:55:00] <Stric> UFS > 1TB isn't very nice anyway.. minimum 1MB inode size
[13:55:49] <lloy0076> Is ZFS > 1TB better though?
[13:56:11] <Stric> NAME                    SIZE    USED   AVAIL    CAP  HEALTH     ALTROOT
[13:56:12] <Stric> ftp                    3.81T   2.42T   1.40T    63%  ONLINE     -
[13:56:15] <sickness> Stric: omg, pretty rough :P
[13:56:52] <kirma> minimum "minimum 1MB inode size" ?
[13:57:01] <zdzichuBG> macierz               27,9G  6,20T  27,9G  /macierz
[13:57:06] <Stric> kirma: create an 1 byte file, it will take minimum 1MB
[13:57:14] <zdzichuBG> if only mpt driver was better :/
[13:57:20] <kirma> ehhm
[13:57:24] * Stric uses mpt too
[13:57:37] <kirma> how about smaller filesystems then?
[13:57:55] <zdzichuBG> Stric: I believe you have <2TB devices glued together by ZFS
[13:57:56] <kirma> like 512G
[13:58:09] <Stric> kirma: 8k
[13:58:16] <kirma> interesting transition.
[13:58:21] <Stric> zdzichuBG: I believe so too.. 14x300G to be exact
[13:58:30] <jteo> kirma: filesystem design limitations.
[13:58:35] <zdzichuBG> im                     223M  19,1M   223M  /im
[13:58:37] <Stric> kirma: see table in newfs
[13:58:49] <Stric> newfs(1M) that is
[13:58:54] <kirma> hm.
[13:59:04] <Stric> but yeah, very smooth transition :)
[14:00:19] * kirma fortunately has two 540G RAID sets for users instead of one ;)
[14:01:08] * Stric has such splits too
[14:01:19] <kirma> roughly 5M inodes on both
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[14:02:39] <zdzichuBG> from programmer point of few I don't like ZFS very much. Instead of integration, it has own buffer cache and I/O scheduler. But it works great.
[14:03:38] <Doc> integration is only good if you're not making compromises in order to integrate with something that is 30 years old
[14:03:45] <jteo> precisely.
[14:04:03] <jteo> given the limited timeframe, it was more feasible for ZFS to be self-contained than fix the VM.
[14:04:28] <jteo> aside from the remaining bugs in ARC. :)
[14:04:39] <Doc> SMF doesnt integrate with rcX.d either, but that doesnt make it a bad thing...
[14:04:40] * Stric is hitting a few of them :/
[14:06:27] <zdzichuBG> in Linux replacing readahead algorithm is pretty easy. I/O scheduler can be even modular and replaced on the fly. Sometimes I think Linux kernel is better organized than Solaris
[14:06:46] <zdzichuBG> but onyl sometimes ;)
[14:06:51] <Berny> yeehaa more great news from that fabulous software producer i mentioned yesterday
[14:07:21] <Berny> now their sparc version uses gcc as well...
[14:07:27] <Berny> and automake
[14:07:35] <Berny> and all that other crap :-\
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[14:09:37] <jteo> Berny: least they're consistent.
[14:10:42] <Stric> I'm very happy that people use it, otherwise everyone would make their own build system that maybe works on redhat 8.3 beta (which was what the developer had at the time)
[14:11:15] <Berny> Stric: they used (pre)studio compilers and a simple make on sparc before
[14:12:30] <Berny> just because they now have a linux version, of there crap doesn't mean you have to change everything that worked (halfway) before
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[14:18:42] <Berny> .oO(now they're also asking to reschedule installation of their stuff, because "porting to gcc takes longer than expected")
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[14:41:41] <Peanut> Is vermillion part of OpenSolaris, or something completely seperate?
[14:42:46] <darrenm> vermillion is the codename for the current work in the JDS consolidation of OpenSolaris
[14:43:28] <darrenm> see http://opensolaris.org/os/project/jds/ & http://opensolaris.org/os/community/desktop/
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[14:45:48] <Peanut> Thanks, darrenm - I was looking for vermilion on the projects page, couldn't find it.
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[14:56:16] <sunnyDay> #kvm
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[15:01:11] <milek> hi
[15:01:26] <milek> Shouldn't SXCR 55 be already available?
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[15:07:40] <Doc> sun shuts down over xmas, so that's probably delayed it
[15:08:20] <lasseoe> since when is that an excuse for not getting work done? ;-)
[15:09:12] <darrenm> Sun in the US does but not all of us get "free" holiday!
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[15:09:56] <Doc> UK doesnt shut down, or you were just one of the ppl left working?
[15:10:20] <lasseoe> maybe they forgot to tell him :)
[15:12:11] <axisys> morning all
[15:12:32] <axisys> is there a patch/hack to address the DST for Solaris?
[15:12:53] <lasseoe> yes
[15:12:56] <lasseoe> sunsolve.sun.com
[15:14:21] <jteo> i thought everyone in Sun got the free holidy.
[15:14:30] <darrenm> nope thats a US only thing
[15:14:42] <darrenm> I was off but I had to talk days out of my allowance for it
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[15:14:56] <darrenm> UK doesn't shutdown
[15:15:12] <darrenm> in the past I've actually worked all non official days inbetween - and been on call xmas day!
[15:15:20] <Doc> ahh.. ok
[15:15:40] <Doc> we shutdown for 2 weeks, but i did my usual trick of staying working during it - better than losing 7 days leave
[15:16:28] <Cyrille> I don't think there are many locations where days inbetween are actually given.
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[15:17:01] <Cyrille> though most places do more or less shut down.
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[15:17:20] <Doc> i was on-call over NYE, and we actually got a call at 23:00... blah
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[15:17:42] <Doc> thankfully i could just palm it off to the guys in india
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[15:20:01] <LordKing> i install solaris on one system, and put the disk from this system in another maschine. Is it possible to get solaris work on the new maschine? current only the "recovery" system is bootalbe
[15:20:02] <jteo> gotta love globalization.
[15:20:28] <quasi> LordKing: probably
[15:21:01] <Stric> LordKing: similar machines?
[15:21:05] <darrenm> LordKing: sparc or i386 or amd64 ?
[15:21:14] <LordKing> i386, mostly similar
[15:21:58] <sickness> should be feasible, if you can boot at least in failsafe mode, try to mount the root and rebuild the boot archive, then reboot and try
[15:22:29] <LordKing> how rebuild?
[15:22:43] <darrenm> where is it failing ?
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[15:23:11] <LordKing> i don't get a msg, its only reboot. only failsafe mode work ..
[15:24:50] <darrenm> it reboots directly after selecting it in the grub menu ?
[15:24:55] <darrenm> but failsafe works ?
[15:25:00] <LordKing> yes
[15:27:04] <LordKing>    /sbin/bootadm update-archiv <- to rebuild boot archive?
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[15:29:31] <milek> history
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[15:50:37] <axisys> lasseoe: u know of any hack/patch of DST for sol 6 and sol 7? sunsolve do not have any patch for 6 and 7
[15:51:47] <lasseoe> I don't think they are supported any more
[15:51:51] <lasseoe> so the patch is, upgrade :)
[15:52:06] <LeftWing> Or modify the timezone files yourself. ;P
[15:52:12] <lasseoe> or that :)
[15:52:21] <Stric> this about US changing summer time stuff?
[15:53:33] <axisys> LeftWing: is there a how to ?
[15:53:36] <axisys> Stric: yes
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[15:53:51] <LeftWing> axisys: I'm sure there is -- I've never saught it out, however.
[15:54:22] <axisys> LeftWing: i could just copy from sol 8 w/ dst patched?
[15:56:30] <lasseoe> axisys: man zic
[15:56:52] <lasseoe> or you could just copy it over from another box, pretty sure that'd work.
[15:56:57] <lasseoe> no guarantees tho
[15:57:53] <axisys> lasseoe: thnx
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[16:42:50] <quasi> just switch to utc and don't worry about it too much ;)
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[17:11:33] <LordKing> hm, it look like my nic don't work. ifconfig -a show me rtls0 with right ip but i can't ping a system in the network, and no other system can ping the host
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[17:13:56] <LordKing> ah, this bug solve itself
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[17:19:32] <lasseoe> if it "solved itself" then it's probably nota bug :)
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[17:27:33] <whaq> Good new everyone
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[17:29:50] <_syphilis_> The requested URL /clusters/10_x86_Recommended.README was not found on this server.
[17:29:52] <_syphilis_> sunsolve <3
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[17:45:00] <leal> hello..
[17:45:57] <leal> i'm trying to print the FD in a pollsys call...
[17:46:26] <leal> i'm trying: printf ("FD: %s", ((struct pollfd *)arg0)->fd);
[17:46:38] <leal> any tips??
[17:46:45] <Error_404> w00t... http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/hitachi-breaks-1tb-hard-drive-barrier-with-7k1000/
[17:46:59] <_syphilis_> arg0?  is that C or dtrace?
[17:47:07] <leal> dtrace
[17:47:14] <leal> sorry..
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[17:48:17] <darrenm> leal you need to copyin first IIRC
[17:49:43] <TrogL> having a Solaris 10 problem, is this also in open Solaris.  When I use SMC to create a hot spare pool, it calls it hsp0, then tries to access it as hsp000, which won't work (right?).  BUg?
[17:50:02] <_syphilis_> SMC :-(
[17:50:20] <leal> darrenm: i will look for "copyin" in the sun docs.. thanks.
[17:50:40] <TrogL> syphilis: Yeay, I know, but it's for a newbie
[17:51:05] <richlowe> not using %s would help too.
[17:52:01] <richlowe> while I haven't compared the results to reality at all:
[17:52:03] <richlowe> dtrace -n 'syscall::pollsys:entry { printf("%s: %d", execname, ((struct pollfd *)copyin(arg0, sizeof (struct pollfd)))->fd); }'
[17:52:12] <leal> richlowe: i'm not... was trying to use stringof.. so, the original code is %i
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[17:54:10] <leal> richlowe: thanks...
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[17:59:19] <leal> somebody can "explain" what exactly are the "events" and "revents" in pollfd ?
[18:00:06] <Cyrille> "probably"
[18:00:10] <leal> i'm having numbers as: "64", "64759", "64761"..
[18:00:18] <leal> in revents
[18:00:28] <_syphilis_> leal: man poll.  they contain what events the user is asking for / are available
[18:01:07] <TrogL> doing it by hand reports metahs: foo c4t11d0s0: hotspare doesn't exist
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[18:02:57] <leal> _syphilis_: ok, it's a bitmasks... solaris 10 does not have pollsys man page... and the prototype of poll is different..
[18:03:18] <_syphilis_> pollsys is the system call that implements poll.  the arguments don't matter, you're interested in pollfd struct
[18:03:29] <leal> _syphilis_: but the manual page has the information.
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[18:06:00] <richlowe> stevel: mornin'
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[18:08:03] <stevel> morning rich
[18:09:53] <richlowe> stevel: sure would be nice if Monaco and Boo presented the same API. :)
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[18:10:11] <richlowe> (modules, not apps)
[18:10:15] <richlowe> though that'd be nice, too ;)
[18:10:39] <stevel> yeah, it's kinda cruddy right now since the Boo object only represents one query
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[18:11:08] <richlowe> Take my advice.
[18:11:15] <richlowe> Do *not* attempt to programatically search Boo
[18:11:27] <richlowe> insanity and alcohol, result.
[18:11:39] <stevel> neither of which sounds entirely unappealing ;)
[18:13:23] <darrenm> or if Boo was Monaco that just did data filtering on the fly!
[18:13:34] <LordKing_> how i find out the name of my network interfaces (like hme0)
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[18:14:07] <darrenm> LordKing_:  ifconfig plumb -a
[18:15:23] <LordKing_> hm, it only show one, but there must be two
[18:17:08] <stevel> richlowe: we could throw the BooBug object out
[18:17:24] <PerterB> darrenm: when was that feature added? the latest nevada I have to hand is 20060904 and it ain't in there
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[18:18:35] <darrenm> try ifconfig -a plumb ;-)
[18:18:40] <richlowe> darrenm: I'd focus your goals on flying cars and jet packs.
[18:18:44] <richlowe> you'll probably get them sooner.
[18:18:47] <darrenm> and that has been there for many many releases
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[18:19:45] <PerterB> excellent, it seems to have wedged my 10u3 box :)
[18:20:10] <PerterB> ah, it's back
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[18:25:28] <_syphilis_> can i use liveupgrade to change the installed cluster during the upgrade?
[18:25:43] <richlowe> I don't think you can in a supported fashion.
[18:25:50] <richlowe> you can in actuality however.
[18:26:21] <richlowe> it takes a jumpstart profile with -j, you can specify a metacluster in there.
[18:26:33] <_syphilis_> ah.. useful.  thanks
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[18:49:43] <_syphilis_> hmm, does motif java not do tooltips?
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[18:52:44] <onbot> commit by tz204579:  4689038 auditon() error return is ambiguous; 4823956 file(1) does not recognize Solaris Audit File type; 6480592 auditing records incorrect pathnames
[18:54:14] <onbot> commit by js198686:  6458110 rcp command hangs when source file changes while transfer
[18:55:14] <onbot> commit by stevel:  6442524 *hostname* hostname(1) should use set/gethostname(3c) rather than sysinfo(2); Contributed by Stephen Potter <spp at unixsa dot net>
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[19:11:49] <_syphilis_> hm.  apparently thats not specific to the motif L&F
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[19:22:34] <adp`> the wifi additions to dladm are pretty sweet
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[21:15:49] <ada> 'evening all. Best wishes & happy new year.
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[21:23:45] <onbot> commit by Sarah Jelinek:  6499742 read-only lofs is still not yet really read-only; Contributed by Rich Lowe <richlowe at richlowe dot net>
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[22:10:05] <Stric> seems like we're getting somewhere in investigating the memory usage problems in zfs I've been having.. 500k dnlc entries eating up 1.6GB ram :P
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[22:13:03] <Stric> 32MB with UFS according to docs..
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[22:22:42] <sommerfeld> Stric: the internal bug report suggested that what was going on was that the ARC was being told repeatedly to free memory, but (for whatever reason) ended up leaving a few objects per slab still in use so that the whole slab couldn't be returned to the system, so the system remained in memory shortage.
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[22:23:42] <Stric> so we need an arc slab defragger? :)
[22:23:50] <Stric> or use smaller slabs
[22:23:54] <richlowe> s/slab de//
[22:24:16] * richlowe still doesn't entirely get why the ARC cache was needed instead of the general caching.
[22:24:16] <Stric> already got an arc fragger.. it's called "use the machine" :)
[22:24:27] <richlowe> s/cache//
[22:24:30] <richlowe> yay redundancy :)
[22:25:54] <Stric> "CD Disc" etc..
[22:25:56] <sommerfeld> or, really, why the arc was added as part of ZFS instead of in place of the system-level buffer cache
[22:26:03] <sommerfeld> (or "ATM machine")
[22:26:25] <richlowe> sommerfeld: or that, true.
[22:27:06] <sommerfeld> the ARC has a better replacement algorithm than the system's buffer cache
[22:27:25] <Stric> but seems to have fragmentation issues
[22:27:44] <alanc> heh - I keep reading those and thinking Architecture Review Committee when you say ARC and it doesn't make sense
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[22:28:08] <sommerfeld> heh
[22:28:37] <Stric> What? Conflicting TLAs? I'd never..
[22:28:48] <alanc> I'll go back to spamming the SPARC graphics group with new bug reports now..."XVR-____ packages don't support Xorg"...
[22:28:49] <_syphilis_> i still read it as 'address resolution committee'
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[22:31:32] * andersmo wonders about how IBMs patent application on the ARC replacement algorithm impacts Sun's distribution of OpenSolaris as open source and other people's use of the OS source code... I figure Sun would get a licence for themselves, at least, if the patent is granted, enforced and upheld.
[22:32:39] <Stric> doesn't IBM mostly just file patents to be able to whack someone in the head if the other party starts sueing etc?
[22:34:40] <andersmo> The postgresql developers shied away from using ARC because of that patent application. ARC was investigated as an improved cache algorithm for Apache Derby as well (aka JavaDB, Sun's got developers working on it as well), but disqualified on that basis.
[22:34:52] <andersmo> Patents are generally considered scary in the open source world. =)
[22:35:11] <moazamraja> re
[22:35:32] <moazamraja> anyone have tips on how to see all network connections in all zones?
[22:35:37] <moazamraja> from the global zone
[22:35:51] <andersmo> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2005-03/msg01052.php - ibm patent worries postgres hackers
[22:37:44] <moazamraja> its a fact of life, patents.
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[22:38:18] <sommerfeld> so, the right answer is to not spend time looking to see what other people have patented.  if someone claims "we patented X, and your implementation infringes it", you can honestly claim ignorance.
[22:38:19] <moazamraja> even if a company doesnt use them to make money via fees, they use them to protect themselves from someone else patenting and charging them fees.
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[22:38:37] <pikapika> hello
[22:38:41] <waswas> hola
[22:38:45] <moazamraja> now...on to network connections in zones and checking them out in the global zone? :)
[22:38:54] <sommerfeld> as I understand it, knowing infringement subjects you to triple damages.
[22:38:59] <sommerfeld> so ignorance is bliss :-)
[22:39:00] <waswas> anyone know what checksum type zfs uses on blocks?
[22:39:23] <Stric> waswas: the one you tell it to.. fletcher2, fletcher4 or sha256
[22:39:40] <Stric> zfs set checksum=xxx filesystem
[22:39:46] <waswas> fletcher2 by default?
[22:39:53] <_syphilis_> yes
[22:40:05] <_syphilis_> you can also disabled checksums
[22:40:08] <Stric> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher's_checksum
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[22:41:57] <waswas> Stric: aye basically a modified adler32
[22:42:04] <sommerfeld> (but please don't mistake anything I said here for legal advice...)
[22:42:37] <Stric> sommerfeld: I'll just sue you when shit hits the fan
[22:44:29] <waswas> are there any benchmarks for checksum performance numbers?
[22:44:56] <andersmo> waswas: there was one linked from the wikipedia page posted above.
[22:45:43] <delewis> waswas, checksums do not hurt performance as bad as you might think, considering how ZFS does other things to counter the impact of checksumming.
[22:45:52] <andersmo> (it's a generic benchmark, though, maybe you were thinking of ZFS' use of them? =)
[22:46:02] <waswas> andersmo: that is the wrong performance
[22:46:39] <waswas> andersmo: that paper talks about collisions not thru-put performance.
[22:46:46] <sommerfeld> in general, zfs performs better than ufs on comparable hardware, despite doing more work
[22:46:56] <andersmo> And when your controller goes bad and ZFS' checksums saves your data, you'll love'em. ;)
[22:47:03] <delewis> having no journal helps :-)
[22:47:04] <sommerfeld> (given sufficient memory, that is...)
[22:47:58] <mrdeviant> also, the niagara2 will have sha-256 support on-die, which will make checksums effectively free
[22:48:34] <waswas> I know,  I am investigating just how much overhead sha256 would add..  I am looking at adding CAS to zfs for dup squishing same blocks.  fletcher does not have a low enough collision rate for this purpose.
[22:48:35] <andersmo> niagara2's gonna have a lot of cool stuff on-die. =)
[22:49:11] <mrdeviant> cas?
[22:49:20] <waswas> Content Addressable Storage
[22:50:17] <waswas> if block 1 and block 2 have same checksum, store them as block one and inc the links count on the node + add a metadata shell for the second link.
[22:50:37] <waswas> when blocks link count hits zero kill.
[22:51:01] <mrdeviant> that would have interesting interactions with the bleaching thread on zfs-discuss
[22:51:43] <waswas> this is just a home brew project for now, not intended for push to cvs =)
[22:52:06] <sommerfeld> push to cvs all you want.  we don't keep the master sources in cvs :-)
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[22:52:36] <_syphilis_> is there any ongoing work on improving ZFS performance for UFS direct i/o-style workloads?
[22:52:56] <sommerfeld> there is ongoing work on improving zfs performance, including for databases.
[22:53:07] <waswas> I am still getting up to speed on the source,  so I am not sure how well this will fit into the current tree/node struct yet..
[22:53:39] <_syphilis_> sommerfeld: any idea when we might start seeing it in S10? :)
[22:54:34] <waswas> _syphilis_: I have a feeling unless it is causing sever performance issues for large clients you will see merges for 11 not U4. =)
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[23:15:12] <lloy0076> Should installing the onbld tools DELETE everything in /opt?
[23:15:22] <_syphilis_> lloy: did you turn /opt into a symlink?
[23:15:43] <lloy0076> No, it's a real link.
[23:15:48] <lloy0076> Err, real directory.
[23:15:49] <_syphilis_> "real link"?
[23:15:50] <lloy0076> Always was.
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[23:16:13] <lloy0076> I didn't do a thing to /opt except install glassfish and eclipse into it.
[23:16:16] <nrubsig> richlowe: Thanks for ruining my day... ;-(
[23:16:35] <alanc> what he do?  get his putback in first?
[23:16:42] <nrubsig> alanc: no.
[23:16:49] <nrubsig> alanc: read opensolaris-code@
[23:16:55] <alanc> oh that
[23:17:33] <nrubsig> I am working my a** off to get libast into Solaris and then I get a "suprise" present... ;-(
[23:17:58] <lloy0076> Ok, this said, now that the only thing in my /opt is the onbld tools (*sigh*)...how do I get back the stuff that came from the install DVD?
[23:18:18] <alanc> you're overreacting again - all he said was that you'ld need to explain why
[23:18:19] <lloy0076> [the other alternative is that a BFU upgrade removed everything but the onbld tools]
[23:18:50] * nrubsig cross his eyes
[23:18:57] <nrubsig> s/cross/crosses/
[23:19:05] <alanc> just because you've worked with libast so long it's obvious to you doesn't mean anyone else knows if/why it would be a good idea
[23:19:36] <alanc> I figured Jim's comment would be more upsetting to you
[23:19:58] <nrubsig> alanc: james carlson ?
[23:20:03] <alanc> yes
[23:20:28] <nrubsig> alanc: maybe I just put richlowe into the same bag and started beating without thinking... ;-(
[23:20:30] <alanc> the one where he actually said he objected to making things use libast
[23:21:07] <nrubsig> I am 15mins in my office and I have some headach thanks to that.
[23:21:13] <nrubsig> yeah
[23:21:28] <alanc> and even carlson didn't say using the libast code was bad, just that if it's stdio is so much better than libc's, why not just replace libc's?
[23:21:44] <nrubsig> it was not about libast stdio.
[23:21:53] <nrubsig> if replace then use sfio directly
[23:21:58] <alanc> mix and match stdio can be deadly
[23:22:13] <_syphilis_> alanc: isn't the supposedly private stdio interface protected by ARC?
[23:22:14] <nrubsig> alanc: not for standalone applications.
[23:22:47] <alanc> if an application is linked with a library that uses one stdio implementation and loads something else that uses another, won't bad things happen?
[23:22:52] <nrubsig> _syphilis_: if we do a switch then it would be recommended to use SFIO directly and not the wrappers. that saves some function calls.
[23:22:59] <nrubsig> alanc: no.
[23:23:13] <delewis> you can do symbol versioning to prevent that, I think.
[23:23:20] <alanc> we've seen problems before with nspr/nss libraries doing this - Mozilla crashes when it calls into it's copy and gets the system copy instead
[23:23:21] <nrubsig> alanc: different namespaces. AST uses #define fopen _ast_fopen
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[23:23:54] <alanc> ah - I was assuming they exported the symbols directly
[23:23:56] <nrubsig> alanc: mozilla/nspr/nss sucks various rocks.
[23:24:06] <alanc> wholly
[23:24:39] <nrubsig> and I am stunned that everyone is to "hot " to use the firefox plugin/extension api which changes every week
[23:25:12] <alanc> but still, all anyone has really said is that changing i/o libraries in common applications needs more discussion so people understand what's happening
[23:25:15] <nrubsig> likewise the usage of firefox and thunderbird is extremely dumb because you need twice the memory for the gecko engine.
[23:25:28] <alanc> memory is cheap
[23:25:32] <nrubsig> ugh
[23:25:41] <alanc> 8-)
[23:25:42] <nrubsig> alanc: not on sunrays.
[23:25:47] <alanc> I know
[23:25:48] <sahafeez> there is a reason that apple went with khtml for safari
[23:25:51] <nrubsig> and not for universities
[23:25:52] <richlowe> alanc: you jumped on 'memory is cheap', but not 'saving some function calls'
[23:26:00] <richlowe> tsk tsk.
[23:26:01] <_syphilis_> does directio(f, DIRECTIO_ON) bypass the UFS single writer lock?
[23:26:09] <nrubsig> _syphilis_: yes
[23:26:14] <lloy0076> It might have been me that deleted all the stuff in /opt. I see a rm -rf * and I could have been in the wrong directory.
[23:26:25] <_syphilis_> nrubsig: even when other files on the FS are not directio?
[23:26:26] <nrubsig> _syphilis_: or use SFIO :-)
[23:26:36] <nrubsig> _syphilis_: AFAIK yes.
[23:26:37] <alanc> on my workstation, where I have 2gb all to myself, I prefer having a mail client that doesn't crash because I hit another browser plugin bug (stupid flashplayer)
[23:26:46] <sahafeez> anyone planning on ordering one of those 1tb hds?
[23:26:55] <nrubsig> alanc: the crashes can be avoided.
[23:27:09] <andersmo> sahafeez: and pack a thumper full of'em? =)
[23:27:14] <alanc> yeah - I deleted the flashplayer when I still used Mozilla 1.7, crashes went way down
[23:27:17] <nrubsig> alanc: a while ago I wrote a patch for that but I never had time to get it pass review.
[23:27:25] <alanc> seems to be much less buggy now
[23:27:25] <sahafeez> hum. 48 disk right?
[23:27:30] <nrubsig> feel free to fire me to finish that work... :-)
[23:27:47] <nrubsig> and to get MIT-KERBEROS-5 running again.
[23:27:54] <nrubsig> s/fire/hire/
[23:28:00] <nrubsig> grumpf
[23:28:01] <nrubsig> typos
[23:28:06] <nrubsig> rampage
[23:28:09] <nrubsig> f*ck
[23:28:10] <nrubsig> xx@@@!!!
[23:28:24] <alanc> I was wondering how I could fire you...
[23:28:29] <lloy0076> heh
[23:28:40] <lloy0076> I read that and thought, "What a weird thing to say" :)
[23:28:55] <nrubsig> alanc: 2l hydrazine are sufficient
[23:28:56] <alanc> not that I can hire you either
[23:29:30] <nrubsig> alanc: aren't you a manager right now ? :-)
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[23:30:31] <alanc> only the bug database thinks I'm a manager
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[23:30:55] <alanc> all real management this week goes up to our director, who hasn't had to do any for us
[23:31:11] <alanc> other than the paperwork to get our new manager on board
[23:31:12] * nrubsig wonders how he should proceed with richlowe: Roasted, cooked in oil, skinned alive and then covered with chocolade, torn into pieces by komodo dragons, head removed and put in front of the building as warning.
[23:32:03] <nrubsig> mint sauce sounds cool... :-)
[23:32:59] <alanc> if you were shooting fire at Sun HQ earlier this week, you missed - hit an apartment building under construction about two blocks away
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[23:45:38] <_syphilis_> Due to a change requested by xxxxx at sun dot com,
[23:45:39] <_syphilis_> xxxxx at sun dot com is now the responsible engineer for:
[23:45:45] <_syphilis_> will someone _please_ fix that?
[23:46:35] <Gman> it was fixed, then it was reverted seemingly :/
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[23:46:50] <Gman> there's an open bug about it afaik - richlowe knows the details if you want to track it
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[23:47:27] <nrubsig> Gman: I think it's stupid to scramble the emails for logged-in users.
[23:47:43] <Gman> yes, it is
[23:47:55] * nrubsig wonders if Jenny Greenteeth surived the "Wee Free Men"
[23:48:01] <nrubsig> Poor beast
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[23:49:52] <nrubsig> hey, we could make Jenny the OpenSolaris mascott! :-)
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[23:50:40] <nrubsig> (no pans allowed)
[23:51:05] <richlowe> Gman: different things.
[23:51:10] <Gman> ok
[23:51:11] <richlowe> Gman: _syphilis_ is talking about the interest list stupidity
[23:51:13] <nrubsig> Anyone else read the book ?
[23:51:15] <richlowe> which I know a whole lot about, yes.
[23:51:19] <richlowe> but it's not a software bug.
[23:51:24] <Gman> but there's an open bug about it
[23:51:25] <richlowe> it's a people bug.
[23:51:29] * richlowe root caused it to 'utter morons'
[23:51:33] <richlowe> someone else can fix it.
[23:51:50] <Gman> :)
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[23:53:09] * nrubsig wonders whether he is the only one here in the channel who read "Wee Free Men"
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[23:53:40] <richlowe> Gman: actually, you're right though.
[23:53:48] <richlowe> Gman: there *is* an open bug about it, and it is one I filed.
[23:53:58] <richlowe> well, it was open last I knew, anyway.
[23:54:09] <richlowe> 6488448
[23:55:49] <_syphilis_> This bug is not available.
[23:55:52] <_syphilis_> oh, the irony
[23:56:07] <richlowe> Yeah, it's bugtraq_exte/other
[23:56:11] <richlowe> "it's in"
[23:56:12] <alanc> nrubsig: I lost my copy before I got a chance to read it - I have the sequels sitting here waiting for me to find it
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[23:56:25] * richlowe is still intrigued by that.
[23:56:29] <richlowe> assuming exte == 'external'
[23:56:39] <nrubsig> alanc: how can you loose a book ?
[23:56:48] <richlowe> remove its chains.
[23:56:54] <alanc> woo!  Packages built:  46 - Packages failed: 0
[23:57:18] <alanc> they get up during the night and wander around - our apartment has lots of good hiding places for them
[23:57:37] <nrubsig> alanc: isn't "0" just one character long and in reality 10000 packlages failed building ?
[23:57:53] <alanc> first time I've got the Xorg 7.2 tree to build everything in the normal packages - now to get it working with the TX packages too
[23:58:54] <alanc> nrubsig: we don't have 10000 packages yet - we still combine many Xorg upstream modules into a single Solaris/SVR4 package to keep from having that many
[23:59:52] <alanc> though the build time is about 5 times longer due to running all those slow configure & libtool scripts - the Imake builds run in ~30 minutes - autoconf/automake/libtool take 2 1/2 hours





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