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[01:50:28] <steleman> whoa
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[01:50:43] <nrubsig> steleman: ?!
[01:50:46] <nrubsig> steleman: what ?
[01:50:51] <steleman> some server split ?
[01:51:01] <nrubsig> steleman: where ?
[01:51:10] <steleman> i dont know i just saw abunch of people here getting booted
[01:51:31] <Error_404> i'm still here
[01:51:33] <Error_404> *shrug*
[01:51:36] <nrubsig> steleman: that's normal
[01:51:55] * nrubsig wonders whether he should change that...
[01:51:58] <steleman> yeah i guess
[01:52:06] <nrubsig> er
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[01:52:17] * nrubsig wonders whether he should change Error_404 's status...
[01:52:54] * nrubsig watches Error_404 running away in great fear...
[01:52:58] <nrubsig> =:-)
[01:53:22] <Error_404> :(
[01:53:29] <steleman> nrubsig: you could always boot everyone and then have the whole channel all for yourself :-P
[01:53:41] <nrubsig> Error_404: you did see the smiley, right ?
[01:53:47] <Error_404> yes
[01:53:50] <nrubsig> steleman: nah, I don't.
[01:53:51] <Error_404> it had a hat
[01:53:57] * steleman remembers IRC boot wars from undergrad days
[01:54:12] <nrubsig> Error_404: =:-)   <----- little devil
[01:54:21] <nrubsig> no hat
[01:54:24] <nrubsig> horns
[01:55:27] <nrubsig> I only consider to kick people if they start to attack others in this channel (excluding myself), and even then I only kick them as warning and only consider a ban if they repeatedly misbehave.
[01:55:41] <steleman> for some reason SuSE 10 is much slower than SuSE 9.3. i wonder if this is gcc related
[01:55:46] <nrubsig> bah, wrong english
[01:55:53] <nrubsig> steleman: which locale ?
[01:56:01] <steleman> en_US.UTF-8
[01:56:11] <dwc-> horns? >:-)
[01:56:11] <nrubsig> steleman: which gfx card ?
[01:56:24] <nrubsig> dwc-: the things the devil has on his/her head
[01:56:36] <steleman> gfx card is a joke: ATI R128 on board laptop 16MB RAM :-D
[01:56:42] <nrubsig> ugh
[01:56:57] <nrubsig> steleman: maybe ATI's binary driver for Xorg may help.
[01:57:03] <steleman> HAHA A20P ThinkPad from January 2000 Pentium-III 700MHz
[01:57:12] <steleman> doesn't support my card
[01:57:20] <nrubsig> steleman: at least my laptop has an nvidia gfx card and with the nvidia binary driver even opengl makes lots of fun
[01:57:26] <nrubsig> doom3 with 18fps!!
[01:57:39] <steleman> yeah i wish ATI would support their own cards with their own binary closed source super duper driver
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[01:58:17] <Error_404> even nvidia doesn't support their own cards
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[01:58:27] <_syphilis_> steleman: isn't that the card everyone puts in servers because it's the cheapest you can still buy? :)
[01:58:41] <nrubsig> steleman: I think your problem may be the gfx driver. Usually "slugginess" like that comes from a slow gfx driver and not from a slow kernel
[01:58:46] <nrubsig> _syphilis_: that is m64
[01:58:52] <steleman> Error_404: not officially, but the driver works anyway even with non supported cards, plus they have the "legacy" driver available
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[01:59:24] <g4lt-U60> nrubsig, m645 IS a R128
[01:59:29] <steleman> _syphilis_: yes it is but ATI decided it is not worth supporting
[01:59:32] <g4lt-U60> s/5//
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[01:59:40] <nrubsig> g4lt-U60: erm
[01:59:45] <steleman> i installed ATI's drivers and they told me nono
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[02:12:13] <jteo> hello *.
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[02:32:05] <Stormy> can open solaris use nvidia raid?
[02:33:23] <jteo> Stormy: no.
[02:33:43] <Stormy> can you build a software raid 5 and then install on that?
[02:34:27] <jteo> Stormy: yes with SVM.
[02:35:02] <jteo> ZFS supports that too, but booting off a ZFS pool is not officially supported yet. You can do it, but it's not supported.
[02:35:45] <Stormy> do you need an existing install to create it?
[02:35:50] <Stormy> all i've got is the dvd iso
[02:35:59] <Stormy> and 3 sata drives
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[02:37:20] <boyd> Stormy: You can install then make it. You can't boot off software raid5, only mirror. You can put the boot FSs on some slices, then data on others that *are* raid5, though.
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[02:38:14] <Stormy> ok
[02:38:32] <jteo> boyd: forgot about the mirror only part. ;)
[02:38:37] <boyd> SW raid5 sucks, though. ZFS's raidz is better.
[02:38:50] <Stormy> so i can install on the first
[02:38:53] <Stormy> then zfs the next two?
[02:39:04] <boyd> Sure.
[02:39:48] <Stormy> does zfs work at the disk layer or the partition layer?
[02:39:59] <Stormy> when allocating free space
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[02:40:38] <jteo> Stormy: read the zfs admin guide. docs.sun.com
[02:40:56] <jteo> Stormy: short answer: it prefers whole disks.
[02:45:21] <FastJack> mhh, snv_54 comes with postgresql. but I somehow seem to have missed the startup script. can't find it in svcs -a
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[02:49:29] <Stormy> i hope open solaris supports lsi raid
[02:50:44] <_syphilis_> most LSI cards are supported, mpt driver
[02:51:02] <_syphilis_> you'll probably lack any advanced status monitoring the card has
[02:51:19] <Stormy> ok
[02:51:56] <dvorak> lsi has a mpt driver for solaris 10 x86
[02:52:35] <_syphilis_> different from the one bundled with solaris?
[02:52:38] <dvorak> yes
[02:52:48] <Stormy> i have a pci-x 133 6 port sata card
[02:54:28] <_syphilis_> hmm speaking of mpt: genunix: [ID 408822 kern.info] NOTICE: mpt1: fault detected in device; service still available
[02:54:33] * _syphilis_ wonders if that's bad
[02:55:07] <Stormy> depends on what you classify cache error's as
[02:55:16] <Stormy> and more i guess how your card handles them
[02:55:28] <Stormy> sounds like you have something like a address in cache going bad
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[03:01:15] <jteo> wb boyd
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[03:01:36] <boyd> Heh.. thx... I thought iwas time for my annual re-start of screen :)
[03:03:27] <_syphilis_> Stormy: how do you get that from this error?  (google is fairly unhelpful)
[03:03:51] <Stormy> law of averages
[03:03:58] <_syphilis_> er?
[03:04:04] <Stormy> the most common thing to die on a real raid card is the cache
[03:04:11] <Stormy> slowly
[03:04:14] <Stormy> and generally with errors
[03:04:31] <_syphilis_> it's not a raid card, just an hba
[03:04:40] <Stormy> does it have cache?
[03:04:47] <Error_404> aww... 64 bit java doesn't have the dtrace probes in it
[03:04:52] <Error_404> :-(
[03:04:59] <_syphilis_> not that i know of.  (does any hba have cache on it?)
[03:05:24] <jteo> firefox is a real P.O.S.
[03:05:35] <Stormy> i'm not entirely sure tbh i'd have to check at work tommarow and see
[03:05:38] <Stormy> I think they do though
[03:05:45] <Stormy> how fast are they?
[03:07:10] <_syphilis_> the card?  it supports U320, it's connected to a U160 device
[03:07:38] <Stormy> is it just a scsi card?
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[03:08:30] <_syphilis_> yes
[03:08:58] <Stormy> odd i didn't know the mpt driver covered scsi cards
[03:09:09] <Stormy> i knew it covered everything else like raid cards and fc-hba's
[03:09:16] <Stormy> and sas too
[03:09:40] <Stormy> how often do you see the error?
[03:09:59] <_syphilis_> hm, that's odd.  it logged the same error for both mpt interfaces at the same time (the other one being the onboard interface)
[03:10:26] <_syphilis_> also: mpt1: Disconnected command timeout for Target 0 < apparently is often caused by bad device firmware
[03:10:29] <Stormy> wierd
[03:11:33] <_syphilis_> i blame this infortrend array.  nothing seems broken anyway
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[03:15:00] <Error_404> Ow! goddamnit
[03:15:05] <Error_404> this laptop is attacking me
[03:15:13] <Error_404> i get zapped when i press control
[03:16:43] <nrubsig> Error_404: find the switch to increase the voltage.
[03:16:50] <nrubsig> Error_404: you can still write here.
[03:16:58] <boyd> anti-emacs zealots do that
[03:17:00] <nrubsig> Error_404: more voltate == more twitching.
[03:17:29] <nrubsig> Error_404: even more voltage == no more typing here :-) :-)
[03:18:06] <nrubsig> Error_404: even more voltage == roast beep in front of laptop
[03:18:11] <nrubsig> s/beep/beef/
[03:18:43] <nrubsig> Error_404: even more voltage == china syndrome in office
[03:19:18] <Error_404> huh, the zapping went away
[03:19:33] <Stormy> battery dead?
[03:19:36] <Error_404> I'll just blame this one on static
[03:19:41] <Error_404> Stormy: nope
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[03:23:24] <Error_404> hmm, that's odd... kde obliterates my $PATH
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[03:28:00] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o nrubsig
[03:28:13] <nrubsig> hurray, chatzilla crash quazillion+1
[03:28:38] <Error_404> konversation++
[03:28:39] * boyd wonders why nrubsig persists with it
[03:28:50] <Error_404> or xchat... i'm cool with xchat too
[03:28:57] <nrubsig> boyd: lazyness
[03:29:55] * boyd uses irssi under screen
[03:30:10] <Error_404> me too, but i make pretty heavy use of irssi_proxy
[03:30:15] <boyd> Yeah,. me too
[03:30:22] <boyd> I'm normally typing in Colloquy
[03:30:48] <Error_404> you use a mac?
[03:31:03] <boyd> Laptop, yeah.. only the one machine
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[05:39:39] <john---> i was in here a while ago and asked this, but im curious again. who here runs solaris as a desktop?
[05:40:50] <Error_404> i've got it on my laptop
[05:41:14] <myrkraverk> I do, on my laptop
[05:51:22] <john---> ah
[05:51:35] <john---> is that to make your life easier when at client sites?
[05:54:57] <Error_404> no, it's because solaris is a mature, functional operating system, and I don't see a need for using anything else
[05:57:28] <john---> what do you use for a window manager?
[05:57:37] <john---> the "java desktop?"
[05:57:42] <john---> or did you install something else?
[05:58:29] <Error_404> I installed KDE just simply because I like kde
[05:58:42] <Error_404> JDS isn't bad either, I used it for quite a while
[06:01:22] <john---> ah
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[06:01:59] <john---> i've been using linux/os x for a while but don't really know much about solaris. I think I need to  just force myself to start doing stuff with it
[06:05:10] <Error_404> it's an efficient way of learning about it
[06:05:25] <Error_404> plus sun has the best documentation of any piece of software in the world
[06:05:58] <Error_404> in the style of an old unix vendor (document everything. if the user can see it, it's not a trade secret. document it)
[06:09:52] <john---> what's your home setup like?
[06:10:00] <john---> as far as machines and what OS you run on them?
[06:11:57] <Error_404> i've got an opteron serving files in the closet running nv53, an ultra2 running solaris9 for development work, this laptop (a celeron) running nv54, and a mac mini core solo (because I have a wife who got mad at me for not being able to use any of the computers in the house)
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[06:14:37] <john---> so you do all your work on the laptop?
[06:14:46] <Error_404> mostly
[06:14:46] <john---> isnt that a bit slow?
[06:15:01] <Error_404> naw, fill it with enough ram, runs great
[06:15:46] <john---> whats nv53, nv54?
[06:15:49] <Error_404> people think processor speed is important, but it really hasn't been for years
[06:15:56] <john---> is that dev versions of what will be sol 11?
[06:16:07] <Error_404> yes, it's the build
[06:16:11] <Error_404> the latest is 54
[06:16:12] <john---> on my macs, processing power does matter
[06:16:18] <john---> even with a lot of ram
[06:16:45] <john---> granted my G4 is about 4.5 years old, has a bit over a gig of ram
[06:17:39] <Error_404> *shrug* maybe it's something about the way apple does things
[06:18:01] <Error_404> but IME, anything faster than about 800mhz is more than adequate, given enough ram
[06:18:23] <john---> what kind of dev work are you doing?
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[06:18:56] <Error_404> at the moment, J2EE work
[06:19:13] <john---> ah
[06:19:19] <Error_404> the ultra2 exists because my school is a sun shop & i need a solaris9/SPARC machine to fire off builds for
[06:19:45] <john---> what do you like about solaris over linux?
[06:20:08] <Error_404> other than the reliability, scalability, speed, lack of glaring security issues?
[06:20:49] <john---> in terms of being scalable, how does that translate to your home environment?
[06:21:00] <john---> (im not knocking you, my understanding of solaris is very small)
[06:21:19] <john---> in a datacenter environment i can see that as more of an issue
[06:21:30] <Error_404> I suppose it doesn't, but why would I run linux if it offers no benefit to me?
[06:21:39] <john---> true...
[06:21:59] <Error_404> esp. considering all the other benefits solaris gives me
[06:22:02] <john---> what about solaris is more secure? the fact there is just less crap?
[06:22:05] <Error_404> (dtrace is fantastic)
[06:22:16] <john---> dtrace is a debugging thing?
[06:22:27] <Error_404> john---: linux keeps getting hit every couple weeks with a new race condition security vuln.
[06:22:53] <Error_404> yes, dtrace is for debugging, also works to help find inefficiencies
[06:23:23] <john---> so when people happily patch their RHEL boxes with kernel updates,  a lot of it is race condition bugs?
[06:23:35] <Error_404> and other bugs
[06:24:16] <Error_404> do a proper evaluation for anything you deploy, but I just simply don't trust linux with my data
[06:24:21] <Error_404> YMMV
[06:24:26] <john---> ah
[06:25:01] <john---> the one annoyance i see is application support
[06:25:16] <john---> firefox is only supported on linux/os x/win
[06:25:16] <Error_404> such as?
[06:25:24] <john---> but it looks like the sun people released a solaris binary
[06:25:29] <Error_404> firefox ships with solaris
[06:25:34] <Error_404> i'm using it right now
[06:25:59] <john---> which version? solaris 10 (which i have right now) has some awful mozilla version
[06:26:32] <richlowe> It doesn't ship with 10 FCS, and I don't think it's in any of the updates.
[06:26:33] <Error_404> Solaris build 51 shipped with 1.5
[06:26:39] <richlowe> It's in the Nevada builds however.
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[06:26:42] <john---> ah
[06:26:53] <richlowe> snv_54 ships with ffox 2. (53 may have too, I forget)
[06:27:02] <Error_404> I haven't upgraded SFW since 51, so i dunno
[06:27:09] <john---> vmware only runs on linux and windows unfortunately
[06:27:34] <john---> is there a clever way to run linux apps on the x86 version of solaris?
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[06:27:40] <Error_404> yes, brandz
[06:27:57] <Error_404> but i haven't heard reports of vmware working in brandz
[06:28:08] <Error_404> it may, i haven't tried it
[06:28:29] <Error_404> i've heard reports of quake4 working that way though, so it's not impossible
[06:28:45] <john---> from my brief experience, solaris is a much leaner install than linux
[06:28:52] <john---> which seems to like to install everything under the sun
[06:29:18] <Error_404> much larger download though
[06:29:45] <john---> which is?
[06:29:49] <Error_404> oh, and *DO NOT* under any circumstances install anything lower than 'developer desktop' unless you really know what you're doing
[06:30:32] <Error_404> oh, i mean the solaris express DVD is very large...
[06:30:49] <Error_404> not a single CD
[06:30:52] <Error_404> it's like, 6CD's
[06:31:35] <john---> why's that?
[06:31:54] <Error_404> dunno
[06:31:55] <john---> RHEL is now 5 CDs so its pretty bad too
[06:32:12] <john---> well what are the choices that are lower than developer desktop?
[06:32:13] <Error_404> i blame staroffice
[06:32:22] <Error_404> there's reduced network install and basic install
[06:32:31] <Error_404> neither of which are useful to anyone as far as I can tell
[06:32:35] <Stric> debian etch is at 22 cds now :)
[06:32:52] <Error_404> Stric: well, i guess solaris is positively tiny then
[06:32:55] <UnixTitan> jeeze
[06:32:56] <Error_404> ;)
[06:33:00] <UnixTitan> solaris is 1 dvd
[06:33:05] <Stric> and like 12 archs..
[06:33:46] <john---> i've thought about getting a sun ray on ebay just for fun
[06:34:18] <Stric> Error_404: otoh, people with fast networks just do network installs instead of messing around with a bunch of dvd/cds
[06:34:29] <Error_404> john---: do it
[06:34:54] <Error_404> john---: i ran out of rooms before i ran out of machines, else i'd get one
[06:35:25] <john---> i dont have another room to put it in
[06:35:30] <john---> i just thought it'd be a lot of fun to play with
[06:35:39] <john---> it'd let me put the machines in the closet anyway
[06:37:15] <Error_404> If i had a house and not a small apartment, i'd get a bunch just to throw the machines in the basement
[06:37:20] <Error_404> but i don't have a basement
[06:38:16] <john---> the thing that sucks is that sun machines dont play nice with USB KVMs
[06:38:33] <john---> so im not sure the sun ray would work that well with it either
[06:41:27] <Error_404> couldn't tell you
[06:42:03] <Error_404> hmm... sunray1 can be had for $25 these days
[06:43:03] <john---> yep
[06:43:08] <john---> have you ever used a sunray?
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[06:43:37] <Error_404> I haven't, no
[06:44:06] <Error_404> no need for one, tbh
[06:44:52] <Error_404> apparantly neither does anyone else, or else sun would have these great success stories about them
[06:45:05] <Error_404> instead of hiding them a few pages deep on their website
[06:45:26] * Stric has sunrays at both work and a student association
[06:46:06] <Stric> we have some issues after network hickups, but that could be because we threw out dtlogin and bolted on gdm instead ;)
[07:01:26] <john---> well g'night
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[08:15:35] <asyd> \_o<
[08:21:29] <Error_404> hey
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[09:47:36] <bit0rder> hi
[09:48:08] <bit0rder> does someone have direct link to solaris virtual appliance for vmware ?
[09:48:15] <bit0rder> i cant use torrent
[09:48:30] <bit0rder> too slow for me, cant take a year
[09:48:38] <bit0rder> thanks
[09:52:24] <trygvis> what are you looking for?
[09:54:13] <quasi> I've seen that somewhere - prebuilt images for vmware
[09:54:22] <trygvis> hm
[09:54:49] <bit0rder> yeah for vmware
[09:54:57] <Stormy> how do i disable the gui in open solaris?
[09:55:04] <bit0rder> i cant download it from  https://sdlc5d.sun.com/ECom/EComActionServlet;jsessionid=BFBC786A54DB8F58CFB66DE7695764AD
[09:55:45] <trygvis> why not?
[09:56:07] <lasseoe> stormy: svcadm disable cde-login
[09:56:19] <Stormy> that's what it was
[09:57:10] <bit0rder> dunno
[09:58:21] <quasi> bit0rder: seems broken at the moment - try again a bit later
[09:59:07] <bit0rder> i wonder if someone has a direct link for ot
[09:59:12] <bit0rder> *it
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[09:59:20] <lasseoe> that is the direct link
[09:59:45] <bit0rder> i mean othe than from sun
[09:59:57] <lasseoe> same answer
[10:00:18] <bit0rder> whtt
[10:00:23] <bit0rder> ?
[10:00:36] <lasseoe> ssklf?
[10:01:12] <bit0rder> ?
[10:10:32] <BadKarma> moin
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[10:31:44] <Stormy> how can you force open solaris's dhcp client not to set the hostname?
[10:32:42] <trygvis> you have to configure the dhcp client to not ask for the hostname flag
[10:34:17] <razrX> Stormy: i think removing option number 6 from /etc/default/dhcpagent will do what you want but i'm not 100% sure though
[10:34:35] <razrX> sorry, that should be number 12
[10:35:00] <razrX> end of file, PARAM_REQUEST_LIST is what you want i think
[10:37:24] <raph_ael> hello
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[10:43:46] <sickness> morning all
[10:43:51] <Stormy> also if you do a /etc/hostname.interface that works
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[10:58:04] <Stormy> how do you grow or create a partition on a single disk while partitions are mounted on that disk?
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[10:58:24] <asyd> growfs -M <mounpoint> <path to block device> ?
[10:58:35] <asyd> If i understand good what you want
[10:58:39] <Stormy> yea
[10:58:42] <Stormy> that's to grow
[10:58:45] <Stormy> how do you create
[10:58:51] <asyd> with format ?
[10:58:52] <Stormy> format is telling me i cannot make another slicer
[10:58:55] <Stormy> slice
[11:01:40] <Berny> how many slices do you have already?
[11:06:11] <Stormy> like 4
[11:08:33] <lasseoe> it bitches because swap is mounted
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[11:13:46] <sickness> there should be a switch to force the operation anyway...
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[11:15:51] <Stormy> so if i unmount swap i can edit the partitions?
[11:16:00] <Stormy> it's got a gig of ram and it's not doin anything
[11:32:57] <lasseoe> yes, you should be able to
[11:33:04] <lasseoe> you also need to comment out swap in vfstab
[11:39:10] <Error_404> assuming coreadm didn't steal the partition already
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[11:57:15] <bit0rder> hi
[11:57:42] <bit0rder> is solaris great for web server/ vps webhosting?
[11:58:00] <Auralis> yes
[11:58:33] <sickness> yes
[12:00:09] <Error_404> joyent & mod3 seem to think so
[12:00:24] <Error_404> probably others
[12:01:03] <Error_404> but I only know of those two, because one of the #os regulars works @ joyent, and i buy time from mod3
[12:01:36] <ofu> my company does, too (strato.de)
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[12:15:23] <Error_404> seems a lot of companies do
[12:16:40] <bit0rder> Auralis, sickness, i plan to do a vps hosting with solaris
[12:16:59] <bit0rder> how about the hosting softwares
[12:17:00] <bit0rder> ?
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[12:18:12] <bit0rder> will it be problems
[12:18:13] <bit0rder> ?
[12:18:52] <Error_404> hosting software?
[12:18:56] <Error_404> like, apache?
[12:19:04] <ofu> and php
[12:20:47] <bit0rder> cpanel, rubyonrails
[12:20:48] <bit0rder> and etc
[12:21:13] <Stormy> must....goto....bed......
[12:21:33] <bit0rder> and i got choices here, redhat, gentoo or solaris
[12:21:37] <bit0rder> or bsd
[12:22:52] <Error_404> got an extra machine kicking around?
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[12:22:58] <ofu> why not choose the one you like best and you are most familiar with?
[12:23:02] <Error_404> try all of them, bench them out
[12:23:24] <ofu> solaris can run on niagara *hint*
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[12:26:11] <Error_404> from all the data I've seen solaris handles more connections faster & is more stable than pretty much any of the other common offerings out there
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[12:26:26] <Error_404> admittedly, a lot of that data was from linux2.4 though
[12:26:35] <ofu> solaris 10, yes...
[12:26:37] <bit0rder> ofu, i would, but i want to learn solaris. but i dont know of other os is better for webhosting
[12:26:47] <Error_404> I've a right mind to write a test suite & use sun's try&buy to settle it
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[12:27:53] <ofu> solaris10 is up to 60% faster than 8 (on the same hardware, E420R/4*450/4GB)
[12:28:10] <ofu> the more tcp/ip-connections/teardowns the better
[12:28:44] <trygvis> with statements like that it's pretty easy to think that solaris 8 was pretty crap
[12:29:53] <jteo> it was.
[12:30:18] <sickness> well it's also a bit old, maybe comparison it's not fair
[12:30:23] <bit0rder> ofu
[12:30:37] <sickness> every other os is crap if you compare year old versions over today standards...
[12:31:14] <jteo> unfortunately, people tend to compare Linux to whatever version of Solaris they last used. (read: Slashdot)
[12:32:49] <Error_404> a lot of times it's just pure fanboyism
[12:33:14] <Error_404> as in, solaris performed 63% better on a mysql benchmark than  linux 2.6
[12:33:33] <Error_404> point it out to a linux user, and obviously mysql wasn't tweaked enough
[12:34:02] <ofu> but in my case i think the comparison is pretty fair: same hardware, same application, just different os
[12:34:15] <ofu> loadbalanced, so you can compare perfectly
[12:36:36] <ofu> and every application ran faster, http, mail and especially pop
[12:37:09] <jteo> obviously you haven't tweaked enough on Linux. </sarcasm>
[12:40:15] <bit0rder> ofu, who has  the most users in enterprises? linux or solaris ?
[12:41:38] <Doc> define users and define enterprise
[12:42:10] <bit0rder> medium to huge companies.
[12:42:15] <Doc> solaris
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[12:47:39] <bit0rder> what about server hosting ?
[12:48:46] <Error_404> most of the cheap mysql/php ( read: inconsequential ) sites I've seen run linux, because it's more sexy or something
[12:49:38] <Error_404> and it's "free"... all that freedom comes at a price though, since a RHEL support contract is $100+/year more expensive than solaris
[12:50:31] <bit0rder> rhel support is more expensive than solaris?
[12:50:37] <Error_404> yes
[12:50:42] <bit0rder> Error_404, what sexy do u mean?
[12:50:55] <bit0rder> i thougt solaris is free also
[12:50:59] <Error_404> it is
[12:51:09] <Error_404> Stallman disagrees though
[12:51:10] <bit0rder> isnt solaris free for commercial also?
[12:51:17] <Gr|ffous> I'll start adding opensolaris to my benchmarking toolkit
[12:51:24] <Error_404> yes, you can run solaris without a support contract
[12:51:31] <Error_404> you cannot run RHEL without one though
[12:51:43] <bit0rder> ic
[12:51:58] <Gr|ffous> after trying to work out why my 4100s were using my 3510 so slow, I finally installed a bog standard opensolaris, and instantly had around twice the throughput on the SAN
[12:52:01] <bit0rder> so what do u suggest for my hosting servers?
[12:52:18] <Gr|ffous> stupid windows...
[12:52:27] <bit0rder> just go with solaris or redhat
[12:52:28] <Error_404> www.cuddletech.com/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=474
[12:52:49] <Error_404> what do you know, the "free" Linux is only twice as expensive as the evil proprietary solaris
[12:53:19] <bit0rder> define evil
[12:54:17] <Error_404> not GPL I guess
[12:55:25] <bit0rder> Error_404, so if not considering the support what should i choose here
[12:55:30] <bit0rder> just for services
[12:55:42] <Error_404> I personally see absolutely no reason to use linux
[12:56:13] <bit0rder> why ? i think a lot of companies use RHEL nowadys
[12:56:18] <bit0rder> *nowadays
[12:56:42] <Error_404> a lot more companies use windows, but that doesn't mean it's better at the job
[12:57:33] <Gr|ffous> solaris is getting a lot easier these days too
[12:57:36] <bit0rder> for x86 machine should i still choose solaris over redhat?
[12:57:56] <Gr|ffous> I have to confess though, basic things like partioning a disc are still more complex then the windows way of doing it
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[12:58:22] <Gr|ffous> and I know this well, having done the same process over and over, over the last few days doing some benchmarking
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[12:58:57] <Error_404> Gr|ffous: you don't like format(1M) ?
[12:59:03] <Gr|ffous> well, no
[12:59:24] <Error_404> fair enough
[12:59:58] <Gr|ffous> I'm still asounded that something as simple as, Format the entire disk with one filesystem, requires that you label the disk, partition it, slice it, AND know how many cylinders are or you disk so that you can create a slice the size of the whole disk
[13:00:30] <Gr|ffous> unless I'm missing something big here? I suppose slice 2 is the whole disk, but I had always heard that you should stay clear of that one, is that true?
[13:01:07] <jteo> why not just give the whole disk to zfs.
[13:01:24] <Error_404> submit to ZFS, it is your new god
[13:01:35] <Gr|ffous> I wanted to keep it simple, ufs sufficed for basic throughput testing
[13:02:48] <Gr|ffous> zfs is awesome, just plain awesome. A huge step into the future, I love it
[13:03:48] <Gr|ffous> since we're on the subject though, can anyone tell me more about slice 2?
[13:03:51] <Error_404> right, now kiss it's feet
[13:04:12] * Gr|ffous licks his zpools
[13:04:32] <Auralis> slice 2 is a placeholder for the entire disk
[13:04:54] <Auralis> its used by tools that access the entire instead of individual slices
[13:05:13] <Doc> and if you can name such a tool, i'll give you a cookie
[13:05:37] <Auralis> dd of slice 2
[13:06:48] <Gr|ffous> enlighten us doc?
[13:06:55] <Doc> when was the last time you did that for something that?
[13:07:15] <Doc> slice 2 can basically just be treated as any other slice now days
[13:07:16] <Gr|ffous> can you not dd an entire disk anyway?
[13:07:39] <Doc> there isn't a single solaris tool that needs it to be the entire disk (not including what auralis has suggested, which is an admin usage, not a solaris usage)
[13:08:02] <Auralis> but yes, in general its these days just a convention
[13:08:29] <Doc> we're got one big customer who uses slice 2 for their metadb's
[13:09:20] <Gr|ffous> thanks
[13:09:59] <Gr|ffous> so once LU is zfs friendly, there really shouldn't be much use for sticking with slices then? Just zfs the lot?
[13:10:38] <Doc> zfs still "slices" the disk, although it does it with EFI labels
[13:10:46] <Doc> but yes, just give the entire disk to zfs
[13:10:55] <Error_404> efi labels that crater my BIOS
[13:10:58] <Error_404> :D
[13:11:13] <Error_404> i had to tell the bios that there was nothing to see on my SATA ports, move along
[13:15:27] <Gr|ffous> I've ofter wondered, what is the recommended practice for 4500s. ZFS boot isn't there, and  the primary uses of these boxs will be serving up a big zpool, is the recommended practice to use svm for a few boot/os disks?
[13:16:53] <Error_404> the suggested use is to put some stamps on it and send it to me
[13:18:39] <Error_404> i had to delete porn to free up space on my zpool :(
[13:19:02] <timeless> you should have just bought another SATA / firewire disk and added it to your pool
[13:19:23] <Error_404> yeah, no cash for disks
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[13:25:47] <Error_404> even if I did, i need to figgure out a scratch disk, since f**ing zfs won't let you create a broken raidz straight off the bat
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[13:29:24] <Error_404> ( zpool create newpool raidz c0t0d0 c0t0d1 /dev/null && zfs send oldpool/fs | zfs receive newpool/fs && zpool destroy oldpool && zpool replace newpool /dev/null c0t0d2)
[13:34:47] <onbot> commit by vb160487:  5068627 sleep(INT_MAX) returns prematurely on 32-bit machines; 6359463 mdb hangs with message: [ sleeping for 1024 bytes of free memory ... ]
[13:36:43] <Doc> prematurely?
[13:36:49] <Doc> i wonder how they tested that putback
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[13:40:34] <Error_404> who even discovered that?
[13:42:12] <Doc> possibly someone testing something else
[13:42:33] <Doc> i often do 'sleep 9999" or similar in a shell script to simulate a process running
[13:43:18] <FastJack> mhh, shouldn't there be a smf-thingy to start up postgresql in snv_54? I just can't seem to find it
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[13:46:38] <trygvis> FastJack: AFAIK only the manifest xml file, you have to configure and install it yourself
[13:46:48] <trygvis> but I found it on the sun page somewhere too
[13:47:50] <Error_404> FastJack: i have one, but it involved creating a launcher shell script & writing the manifest myself
[13:47:53] <ofu> Gr|ffous: you can use c?t?d0 to use the whole disk for zfs
[13:48:46] <FastJack> yeah, I found a page at sun.com describing how to install postgresql and set it up to use smf. but since postgresql is already included I figured that there must be already something installed and I just missed it
[13:49:37] <FastJack> Error_404: yeah, that sounds about the same I found
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[13:51:03] <Error_404> http://pastebin.ca/300937
[13:51:14] <Error_404> put that in /usr/local/bin with execute permissions
[13:51:24] <Error_404> http://pastebin.ca/300938
[13:51:32] <Error_404> and svccfg import that
[13:51:41] <Error_404> after modifying it to suit your installation
[13:51:47] <trygvis> FastJack: http://onesearch.sun.com/search/clickthru?qt=postgresql+smf&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sun.com%2Fsoftware%2Fsolaris%2Fhowtoguides%2Fpostgresqlhowto.pdf&pathInfo=%2Fsearch%2Fonesearch%2Findex.jsp&hitNum=12&col=all-filtered
[13:55:32] <Berny> before i waste too much time: what are the chances to build on lib with g++ and use it from some other app compiled with the studio compilers (studio10)?
[13:56:47] <Error_404> gnu cc doesn't have a stable ABI, so i dunno... is "unlikely" a good enough answer?
[13:56:48] <razrX> what Error_404 pasted suggest a non-solaris postgres install since that example uses the /usr/local prefix instead of /usr/bin (which is the native environment where solaris packages get installed)
[13:56:50] <_syphilis_> Berny: g++ and CC are not at all binary compatible
[13:57:01] <_syphilis_> g++ *does* have a stable ABI, it's just not the same one
[13:57:25] <Error_404> razrX: I compiled 8.2 for dtrace-y goodness
[13:58:03] <Berny> bugger
[13:58:27] <razrX> Error_404: kk, just wanted to mention it to FastJack
[13:58:27] <timeless> error: doesn't cc (not CC) have a stable abi?
[13:58:38] <timeless> similarly gcc (not g++)
[13:58:44] <_syphilis_> Berny: in the case that the library is written in C++ but exposes a C API, you might find it works
[13:58:49] <Error_404> yes, sorry... i meant the C++ compiler
[13:58:53] <Berny> so anyone up to porting exiv2 to compile with the studio CC? :>
[13:59:03] <Error_404> what's exiv2?
[13:59:10] <razrX> i'm using the csw version myself since native Sun postgres is not compiled with readline support
[14:00:21] <Berny> Error_404: Exif and IPTC metadata library and tools
[14:00:27] <Berny> http://exiv2.org/
[14:00:51] <Error_404> i see
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[14:02:04] <Berny> it uses only standard C++ and a few POSIX and C functions, so it is fairly portable *harhar*
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[14:08:58] <_syphilis_> Sun CC doesn't implement Standard C++ without -library=stlport4 (changes the ABI) (and even then it's not the best compiler)
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[14:09:34] <Berny> not the best is better than g++ 8-)
[14:09:41] <_syphilis_> no it's not
[14:09:46] <Auralis> yes it is
[14:09:51] <_syphilis_> modern gcc is a very good C++ compiler from a standards point of view
[14:09:53] <dvorak> no, it's not for c++
[14:09:54] <_syphilis_> much better than studio
[14:10:14] <_syphilis_> (it's on par with current EDG-based compilers)
[14:10:37] <Berny> well considering the rest of that bunch is built with studio already and works about twice as fast as the g++ compiled stuff...
[14:10:56] <dvorak> where are the benchmarks showing it's twice as fast on c++ code?
[14:11:34] <Berny> just my own experience
[14:13:14] <dvorak> ah
[14:15:24] <Berny> hmpf
[14:15:31] <Berny> "/opt/SUNWspro10/prod/include/CC/stlport4/stl/_stdio_file.h", line 97: Error: _file is not a member of const __FILE.
[14:15:40] <Berny> what's that supposed to mean?
[14:16:01] <_syphilis_> Berny: known bug with stlport4 shipped with studio, iirc there's a fix documented on forum.sun.com
[14:16:30] <_syphilis_> (make sure you have current patches, it may have been fixed)
[14:16:41] <ofu> can i try-and-buy CPU-boards or just whole systems?
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[14:47:16] <trygvis> if I have modern, fast FC drives in a box and use solaris' software raid 5 .. how much IO gain/loss should I assume?
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[14:47:40] <trygvis> I've tried to configure three drives in a raid 5 device and I'm getting less that 2MB/s
[14:50:17] <hile_> a lot most likely, especially if you're writing.
[14:51:54] <trygvis> but 2MB/s is like .. useless
[14:52:01] <trygvis> and there is not a lot of CPU usage
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[14:53:08] <hile_> it's raid 5
[14:53:14] <hile_> what do you expect?
[14:54:08] <trygvis> something useful
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[15:06:22] <jamesb> hi guys, I seem to be getting reproducible silent file corruption in opensolaris, is there any way to figure out why?
[15:08:44] <jamesb> nothing is showing up awry in dmesg, are there any logs that woudl show this kinda thing?  (Simply copying files results in the orginal file's md5sum changing...)
[15:10:05] <edp> does it happen with any file or a particular one?
[15:10:31] <jamesb> well I'm trying with a particular 200M file atm
[15:10:46] <edp> are you certain there aren't any other programs writing to the file?
[15:10:51] <jamesb> yep
[15:11:08] <jamesb> it's a tar.z of sunstudio (as it happens)
[15:12:12] <jamesb> MD5(sunstudio11-ii-20060829-sol-x86.tar.Z)= b7c5ca71acb7a7a82dc4abcc4c04a355
[15:12:21] <jamesb> MD5(sunstudio11-ii-20060829-sol-x86.tar.Z)= f2e8a2bfc9f723b37e2bf14da68b1f5c
[15:12:26] <jamesb> MD5(sunstudio11-ii-20060829-sol-x86.tar.Z1)= c9fa2c753002cc7bf1b09a62a8e6e963
[15:12:34] <jamesb> (bash did say the process had exited in between the checksums...)
[15:12:48] <edp> try without the &
[15:12:55] <jamesb> and ls -l shows the correct number of bytes
[15:13:10] <jamesb> heh, sure
[15:13:19] <jamesb> but hte original file's checksum has *also* changed
[15:13:20] <jamesb> ?!
[15:13:43] <jamesb> surely something somewhere would be complaining?
[15:14:10] <jamesb> s/would/should
[15:15:14] <jamesb> as an aside, booting into recovery mode, fsck doesn't report any errors with the ufs filesystem
[15:15:15] <_syphilis_> changing md5 of a file which is not changing on disk often indicates memory issues
[15:15:35] <jamesb> ah :s
[15:15:36] <Berny> try digest -a md5 file
[15:15:59] <Berny> .oO(why don't i trust openssl?)
[15:16:04] <jamesb> heh :)
[15:16:11] <jamesb> the odd hting is
[15:16:29] <jamesb> teh md5sum seems to be stable before and after the copy
[15:16:38] <jamesb> i.e. it isn't changing all the time
[15:16:45] <jamesb> is just changes between the two
[15:17:03] <jamesb> Berny: digest -a gives the same answer
[15:17:37] <Berny> try before and after copy
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[15:19:15] <sgnut> I get a "could not obtain latest contract from popen(3C): No such process" in the cron log file. Does anyone know where the problem is?
[15:19:41] <sgnut> if I execute the same comman that is in the crontab file I have no problems
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[15:39:09] <_syphilis_> other than paging of program data, what constitutes 'kilobytes paged in' (pi) in vmstat?
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[16:03:57] <_syphilis_> can you put three CPUs in a V40z? (i checked the manual but it doesn't say one way or the other)
[16:06:01] <quasi> _syphilis_: there's room for 4
[16:06:22] <_syphilis_> yeah.. i'm just wondering if 3 specifically is valid, or just 1/2/4
[16:07:16] <quasi> solaris might just decide that you have 3 good and one bad cpu - with fault management, that shouldn't be a problem
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[17:07:44] <Posixzombie> any idea what is the estimated schedule for S10U4 ? I mean in months: january or february or march 2007 ? or later ?
[17:10:28] <quasi> Posixzombie: U3 was released about 2 weeks ago - U2 was about 6 months ago ...
[17:11:00] <quasi> later would seem likely
[17:11:51] <Posixzombie> quasi, I see (I don't follow dates of sol10 updates)
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[17:14:56] <_syphilis_> iirc the intended schedule is one update every 6 months
[17:15:17] <_syphilis_> U1 being an exception
[17:19:00] <MikeTLive> are you asking if you need pairs? 1,2,4 ?
[17:19:09] <jbk> christ... never forget to include a locale when doing a solaris install
[17:19:21] <_syphilis_> Mike: me?  yes
[17:19:24] <jbk> it'll take you forever to figure out which packages need to be installed
[17:19:45] <lasseoe> jbk: localeadm ?
[17:19:47] <_syphilis_> more specifically: i have 2x 848s now.  can i add 1x 848 + memory and it will work?
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[17:22:57] <MikeTLive> 6/6/6 is the only release for me.
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[17:31:19] <jbk> well.. I'm not sure why I need japanese or korean ttfs when adding north american locales
[17:31:23] <jbk> or simplified chinese
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[17:31:50] <jbk> or indic
[17:33:13] <jbk> last time i checked, china, japan, and south korea weren't in north america..
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[17:36:27] <hell``> how can i check if ip_squeue_fanout = 1 has been applied to the system? kstat -m ip | grep fanout brings up something related to ipsec
[17:37:24] <jteo> hell`: dtrace -n 'BEGIN {trace(`ip_squeue_fanout)}'
[17:37:58] <jbk> what does nm /dev/ksyms | grep ip_squeue_fanout show for the size?
[17:38:05] <hell``> this is a non-global zone so i can't do dtrace
[17:38:45] <jbk> i think you have to check it from the global zone as it's a kernel tunable
[17:38:52] <hell``> ah
[17:38:56] <hell``> damn
[17:39:05] <hell``> wish there was a way to find out from non-global
[17:39:28] <jbk> does /dev/ksyms exist in non-global zones?
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[17:39:46] <hell``> jbk: nope
[17:40:41] <_pepe_> anybody know how hidden "Open Recent" and "Preferences" from menu applet of JDS in Solaris 10?
[17:40:54] <_pepe_> ups OpenSolaris
[17:41:18] <cian> anyone made native pam_ldap auth against an openldap server?
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[17:54:47] <bit0rder> UNIX will still have an important role to play in the future; however, as desktop  computing systems rapidly become connected to the Internet, they will require the kinds of services typically available under Solaris 10. i read that in solaris, the complete reference, mc graw hill. what kind of services would that be?
[17:55:29] <_syphilis_> i don't know the context, but i'd imagine things like web servers
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[17:57:04] <hile_> morning mrdeviant
[17:57:07] <hile_> PSU closed today?
[17:58:21] <bit0rder> i know that solaris is great for large-scale system(like grid and cluster) but for webserver which is not considered big, is it still good ?
[17:58:41] <sickness> sure
[17:59:08] <_syphilis_> web servers aren't big?
[17:59:17] <bit0rder> bcoz i see that a lot of companies use unix-like system like linux for their local intranet like email and web server
[17:59:44] <sickness> well everyone uses what's better suited for them, a lot of companies use ms exchange too...
[18:00:13] <_syphilis_> bit: i guess you can read that sentence as "under modern server-oriented operating systems"
[18:00:20] <bit0rder> _syphilis_ maybe it is but i mean for small to medium size companies and not for high-data processing
[18:00:21] <_syphilis_> but as it's a book about solaris..
[18:00:43] <delewis> Solaris is free, you can use it anyway.
[18:00:52] <delewis> some making these idiot distinctions.
[18:00:55] <delewis> s/some/stop/
[18:01:11] <bit0rder> what disticntions?
[18:01:19] <mrdeviant> hi hile_
[18:01:23] <sickness> yeah, that's not real distinctions, if it's ok for you, you can even use it as a desktop os on your notebook...
[18:01:27] <mrdeviant> yea, we're off until tomorrow
[18:01:29] <delewis> "using Linux on the low-end" and "Solaris on the high-end"
[18:01:35] <delewis> that's irrelevant nonsense.
[18:01:44] <_syphilis_> delewis: what about AS/400 on the desktop? :)
[18:01:56] <delewis> _syphilis_, I know some people that'd be sick enough to do that :-)
[18:01:57] <sickness> yeah
[18:02:02] <sickness> os400 would rock ghgh :P
[18:02:17] <sickness> cics even more...
[18:02:18] <delewis> RPG!
[18:02:20] <sickness> ghgh
[18:02:26] <sickness> vs/esa
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[18:04:44] <bit0rder> so whats the point guys, can some one sum it up for me?
[18:05:12] <delewis> there is no point
[18:05:17] <delewis> you're asking senseless questions
[18:05:30] <sickness> yeah
[18:05:52] <bit0rder> ok then
[18:06:24] <sickness> there's no truth-god that will tell you what's an os for... there's first of all your need and the capabilities/flexibility of one os to meet them
[18:06:46] <sickness> and/or your competens/willing to adapt an os to suit your needs...
[18:07:52] <bit0rder> sickness, there must be an overall benchmark for some needs
[18:08:44] <sickness> bit0rder: and there is, but it's not "overall"
[18:09:31] <_syphilis_> bit: the benchmark is your organisation's requirements
[18:09:45] <bit0rder> sickness, this is what im asking, in the real world what os suits for some tasks?
[18:09:49] <bit0rder> *what task
[18:09:59] <_syphilis_> there is no rule like "every computing grid must run solaris"
[18:10:09] <_syphilis_> rather, every organisation must use the OS that works best for it
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[18:11:00] <_syphilis_> (and given that modern OSs are all reasonable fast, speed is not often a very important factor)
[18:11:30] <bit0rder> _syphilis_ so maybe support is?
[18:12:17] <_syphilis_> sure, support is one.  training costs (if your organisation is already familiar with Linux on IA-32, HP-UX is probably an expensive choice)
[18:12:24] <sickness> bit0rder: if you have an application that you want to use, like apache, and you could simulate the best approximation that you can of what will be your workload, try and see wich operating system is better for you as manageability/speed/reliability and so on...
[18:12:26] <_syphilis_> existing vendor relations..
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[20:00:24] <_syphilis_> hmm, sun also charges $2k for an 848, whereas typical list price seems to be $800 or so
[20:02:30] <quasi> yeah, that's pretty common
[20:02:54] <quasi> but then you probably get a bit more warranty that way
[20:03:53] <quasi> and I bet the 848 procs are going so much out of style that market prices have dropped a lot over the last 6 months
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[20:05:19] <_syphilis_> mmh, wouldn't surprise me if that $2k figure is from the first release and never changed
[20:05:33] <_syphilis_> (which isn't any less stupid, but)
[20:06:08] <quasi> probably
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[20:15:04] <mihakriket> I was tring to install solaris 10 on my Dell computer and it would not install. I posted a msg to the sun forum and was advised the issue maybe the memory. Is thier any test or program I can run to chk my memory?
[20:15:30] <_syphilis_> mih: memtest86
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[20:16:54] <mihakriket> _syphilis_ is that an open source program?
[20:16:57] <MikeTLive> i ran into a bios/grub limitation trying to install on a dell dimension.
[20:17:05] <_syphilis_> no idea, why would that matter?
[20:17:19] <MikeTLive> i suspect it is the same problem. does it complain about not enough RAM?
[20:18:10] <mihakriket> No I do not get any complains about memory. It just displays a msg, then reboots the computer.
[20:18:17] <_syphilis_> what message?
[20:19:20] <mihakriket> How would I capture the msg, when it disappears and reboot my system, any suggestions?
[20:19:41] <_syphilis_> does the message appear before or after the "SunOS 5.10 ..." banner?
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[20:20:46] <MikeTLive> anyone know if the grub bug on old dell has a workaround?
[20:21:19] <mihakriket> I will try again, but I think it is after.
[20:21:34] <_syphilis_> if it's after, edit the 'kernel' line in grub and append '-kv'
[20:21:45] <_syphilis_> then it will enter the kernel debugger instead of rebooting, so you can write down the message
[20:23:20] <mihakriket> Ok, will try that.
[20:27:35] <alfism> anyone know when b55 is supposed to be available?
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[20:35:58] <kyu> Hi all, at the moment i've only used solaris as a workstation and i want to fire it on one of my boxes (ultrasparc IIi 500mhz) which is currently running openbsd. I want this to be a ssh server, perhaps run a few other daemons for personal use. However, I really don't want X to be installed, let alone JDS as the disk is only 9gb and i'd rather not spend hours removing/chmodding lots of dirs. Does anyone have a guide/docu on making a really minimal solaris expr
[20:36:05] <kyu> wow that was longer than i thought
[20:36:08] <kyu> sorry
[20:37:11] <kyu> There must be seucirty issues also in having x installed/running
[20:37:18] <kyu> security*
[20:38:05] <delewis> kyu, no
[20:38:21] <delewis> rid yourself of Microsoft mentality.
[20:39:01] <kyu> ?
[20:39:02] <delewis> I would do a full install, and then use JASS, which is a Solaris security toolkit.
[20:39:29] <delewis> if you're using Solaris 10 11/06 or one of the Solaris Express releases 'Secure by Default' is enabled.
[20:39:36] <kyu> I dislike the idea of my server having installed so much stuff i really don't need to be there though
[20:39:41] <delewis> so the number of services running is minimal.
[20:39:47] <mihakriket> _syphilis_ I get the msg, while it is booting the SunOS 5.10. The msg "configuring devices" appears then a msg flashes and reboots the computer.
[20:39:51] <delewis> kyu, great, make your system useless.
[20:39:54] <delewis> I don't care.
[20:39:57] <kyu> useless?
[20:40:04] <delewis> I'm telling you in the real-world, that's not how things are done.
[20:40:38] <edp> kyu, with anything other than the full install you will find yourself spending hours installing all of the programs that you will end up needing
[20:40:42] <kyu> None of the unix boxes i use at work have x... none of the servers in here do either, i wasn't under the impression this was considered such a bizarre idea
[20:40:51] <kyu> I doubt that, but ok
[20:40:52] <delewis> kyu, then I doubt they're Unix systems.
[20:40:54] <delewis> they're probably Linux.
[20:41:09] <delewis> most Unix vendors do install X11 or at the very least X11 libs.
[20:41:20] <kyu> apologies, i should have said bsd/other posix
[20:41:43] <delewis> yeah, that's not the real-world. That's full of people that follow Microsoft mentality of "the less stuff I have installed, the more secure I am"
[20:41:49] <kyu> but yeah, i don't really get how i'd make my box "useless" for not wanting gnome installed ona  server
[20:41:56] <kyu> nah this isn't just for security
[20:42:14] <kyu> has a small disk also
[20:42:54] <kyu> but ok, point taken.
[20:42:58] <kyu> cheers
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[21:08:30] <dwc-> um. the less stuff you have installed, the more secure you are
[21:08:42] <dwc-> unless you're claiming that software running or installed and setuid is perfectly secure
[21:09:54] <Odin-LAP> "The less stuff you have running, the more secure you are" would be more accurate, but even that isn't entirely true.
[21:10:03] <dwc-> just off the top of my head, I can think of three instances where X or openwindows has resulted in a user -> root escalation vulnerability
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[21:13:36] <sommerfeld> I'd rephrase that as "the less stuff you have running, the smaller a target you are".
[21:14:40] <quasi> 3 cheers for secure by default ;)
[21:15:04] <dwc-> (more) secure by default
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[21:23:07] <Odin-LAP> sommerfeld: That's a good version, yes. :p
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[21:25:46] <quasi> a bit like windos NT - that only got C2 certified with the network cable not plugged in - that's a pretty small target ;)
[21:30:41] <hile_> s/have running/have presented to an untrusted net/ I'd say
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[21:51:54] <_syphilis_> The server must be running BIOS version shown in "Invalid Cross-Reference Format".
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[21:56:24] <axisys> if the OS gets corrupted, is it possible to restore the raid5 of the attached storage built by SVM?
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[21:56:56] <axisys> i have a copy of the metastat output saved
[21:57:12] <hile_> yes
[21:57:22] <hile_> have you read the SVM admin guide?
[21:57:31] <hile_> that scenario is presented as an example
[21:57:44] <hile_> see metainit(1M)
[21:58:12] <axisys> hile_: i have to say i have not recently.. but i did in the past.. let me read the metainit
[21:58:54] <hile_> read the book; it's more concise
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[21:59:37] <axisys> hile_: let me look it up in docs.sun.com
[22:00:02] <axisys> to preserve data
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[22:02:33] <trygvis> have anyone tried to run solaris on one of those amazone ec2 machines?
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[23:03:40] <springfield> hi all, any thinkpad users in? I've just ordered one and would love to know how OS will run on it
[23:04:01] <_syphilis_> ati graphics means no 3d acceleration
[23:04:08] <dwc-> that's going to depend a bit on what thinkpad you got
[23:04:13] <springfield> _syphilis_: bah, that's ok
[23:04:14] <dwc-> and what's actually in it, etc.
[23:04:44] <springfield> it's a T43 if that helps. I guess I need a blob for the intel wireless? :(
[23:05:04] <_syphilis_> i believe there are open source drivers for the ipw cards
[23:05:11] <_syphilis_> at least the older one in the T43
[23:05:24] <dwc-> ipw2x00 and the 3945? have drivers
[23:05:27] <springfield> _syphilis_: there are, it's the firmware that's the problem isn't it?
[23:05:36] <dwc-> the firmware image should be the same on both platforms
[23:05:39] <_syphilis_> i don't believe firmware is a problem
[23:05:47] <springfield> _syphilis_: sorry, I mean in linux there are drivers
[23:06:26] <dwc-> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/laptop/wireless/ipw/
[23:06:46] <_syphilis_> you want this one: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/laptop/wireless/iwi/
[23:06:52] <_syphilis_> 2915ABG
[23:06:58] <dwc-> or http://opensolaris.org/os/community/laptop/wireless/iwi/
[23:07:04] <dwc-> uh, what he said
[23:07:15] <springfield> ok, thanks
[23:07:59] <_syphilis_> i think the T43 has the same odd SATA bridge as the T43p, needs some fiddling under linux
[23:08:03] <_syphilis_> never tried it on solaris
[23:08:49] <_syphilis_> and you want oss (www.opensound.com) for the audio, ich6
[23:09:18] <stevel> richlowe: ping
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[23:20:49] <Error_404> okay, i officially hate the standard java way of writing functions
[23:20:56] <Error_404> void foo(){
[23:21:00] <Error_404> blah...
[23:21:01] <Error_404> }
[23:21:29] <Error_404> the opening brace should go on the next line, aligned with the return type
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[23:23:55] <Error_404> what is that, C++ style?...
[23:24:00] <Error_404> the right one anyways
[23:25:01] <hile_> I tend to ANSI C style....
[23:25:06] <hile_> static int
[23:25:11] <hile_> do something(void) {
[23:25:15] <hile_> blah
[23:25:22] <hile_> }
[23:25:29] <Error_404> yeah, not a fan of that style
[23:25:43] <Error_404> I have a hard time organizing the code blocks that way
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[23:25:50] <Error_404> in my mind
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[23:48:33] <onbot> commit by Doug McCallum:  6491967 sharemgr: share displays persistent properties over transient properties; 6494665 sharemgr: missing english name for svc:/network/shares/group; 6495057 share[mgr] allows directories within nfs shared filesystems to be nfs shared.; 6495077 sharemgr: sometimes last default share not deleted from SMF when deleted from /etc/dfs/dfstab
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