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[00:26:38] <Error_404> holas
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[00:42:48] <mritun_> Merry christmas fella'
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[01:06:36] <pikapika> hello
[01:07:12] <Error_404> hola
[01:11:57] <mritun_> hi :D
[01:16:17] <pikapika> :)
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[02:15:52] <Yamazaki-kun> Trying to upgrade an SXCR install from build 52 to 54, getting error "non-global zone could not be mounted." How do I fix this one?
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[02:26:02] <Deformative> How much would you pay for a sun ultra 80 with 4 gig of ram, 4 450mhz prossessors, 2 18g hard disks,  dvd, 1 eathernet, no warrenty?
[02:26:53] <jamesd> $400-$600 but a blade 1000 is a better machine and deal
[02:27:41] <Deformative> Hmm.
[02:28:28] <Deformative> Cost more too.
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[02:29:21] <Deformative> What about e420r with simular specs to teh ultra 80?
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[02:30:44] <jamesd> its more power... and the blade is faster.. might want to look at a 280R  ( a blade 1k in a rack mount case)
[02:32:55] <Deformative> I don't want to pay more than 300 dollars though.
[02:33:02] <Deformative> Well, 350 with shipping.
[02:37:30] <jamesd> save another $50 and you will end up with a much better box...  750 or 900 mhz cpus with  8MB l2 cache and up to 8GB of ram... much nicer than even 4x  454 mhz cpus with 4MB l2 cache and 4GB of ram
[02:38:48] <Deformative> For 400 dollars?
[02:39:05] <jamesd> yes
[02:39:48] <Deformative> That is with shipping?
[02:39:55] <Deformative> And how much power would this better box drain?
[02:40:00] <Deformative> How much more would it weigh?
[02:41:01] <Deformative> I just want something I can put on my home network for java/mmorpg development and maybe even host a small mmorpg server/.
[02:41:14] <jamesd> about the same power, you can get single cpu versions currently for $200
[02:41:33] <jamesd> wait till after xmas and it will go down in price a bit
[02:42:14] <jamesd> usually its $350-$400 for a dual 750 mhz version with  2-4GB of ram
[02:42:32] <Deformative> Hmm.
[02:42:41] <Deformative> I surely want >= 2 cpus.
[02:42:51] <Deformative> Because the main reason is to learn threaded programming.
[02:43:03] <jamesd> yes so currently its a bad time to buy  wait a week or two.
[02:43:21] <jamesd>  the blade 1000 is upto  2 cpus but much faster than what you get in a   ultra 80
[02:43:58] <trygvis> you really don't need a multi-cpu server to leard threaded programming
[02:44:15] <trygvis> a set of zones with CPU caps or just VMWare will teach you as much
[02:44:23] <trygvis> and all that on a normal, cheap machine
[02:45:12] <Deformative> Well, I want to host my test servers on it.
[02:45:21] <Deformative> And I want it to be able to play without lag.
[02:45:39] <Deformative> And I understand having parralell threads runs much nicer.
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[02:46:04] <Deformative> Especially for a server like an mmorpg since it will have so many small tasks to do quickly.
[02:46:16] <jamesd> yes they do.. you really should get a dual cpu box... its just now its not a good time.
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[02:47:14] <Deformative> Yeah, I am just looking right now.
[02:47:26] <Deformative> I prolly will not even think about purchasing for like 2 months or so.
[02:50:45] <Deformative> Would the one you reccomended have an ultrasparc III instead of ultrasparc II?
[02:50:54] <jamesd> yes
[02:51:03] <Deformative> Oooh.
[02:51:07] <Deformative> I might go with that then.
[02:51:23] <jamesd> they are faster...  and have a bigger l2 cache,   but  the usparcII is cheaper.
[02:52:08] <Deformative> Hmm, I just figured it would be more bang for my buck to have 4 cpus rather than 2.
[02:52:25] <Deformative> Because each cpu is not going to need to do a lot of work.
[02:52:30] <Deformative> It is just going to need to do it quickly.
[02:52:36] <Deformative> SO I thought it would be better to have more.
[02:52:47] <jamesd> well unless you are going to have all 4 cpus working constantly   the dual cpus will be better
[02:53:06] <Deformative> They probobly would be working constantly.
[02:53:20] <jamesd> you go with that...
[02:53:31] <Deformative> Because they need to send signals ever time someone moves, attack, dies, logs in.
[02:55:28] <Deformative> And it will have to do a lot of mysql stuff.
[02:55:33] <Deformative> Along with controling all the maps.
[02:55:49] <Deformative> So yeah,  I am not sure what to go with.
[02:55:50] <jamesd> unless they happen synchronosly,  which isn't likely  on a  typical link to the network...
[02:57:35] <Deformative> Ah,  that's true.
[02:57:57] <Deformative> But maps, mysql, and network would all be going on at once.
[02:58:22] <kspath> Deformative, I hope the maps are on the client machine
[02:58:28] <Deformative> They are.
[02:58:39] <Deformative> But the positions are on server.
[02:58:51] <Deformative> It has to log that stuff.
[02:58:57] <Deformative> Otherwise someone could easily hack.
[02:59:47] <Deformative> So I am lost on which one to get.  Well, I guess I have some time to think about it.
[02:59:54] <kspath> Deformative, logging does not prevent that     checking for patterns   can if done correctly   I would worry about encryption more
[03:00:34] <kspath> Deformative, otherwise they can just sniff the traffic their clients are sending/receiving
[03:01:16] <Deformative> Nooo.
[03:01:25] <Deformative> I mean positions of monsters is controled by the server.
[03:01:30] <Deformative> THe monsters statistics.
[03:01:35] <Deformative> And the player positions.
[03:01:40] <Deformative> So they cannot map jump.
[03:01:51] <kspath> but the clients have to get that and the "cheaters" will be able to see that traffic
[03:02:11] <Deformative> And?
[03:02:16] <Deformative> It is controled on the server.
[03:02:21] <Deformative> THey cannot do anything about that.
[03:02:38] <kspath> long long ago  some players of EQ would know where all the mobs were relative to themselves and at one ponit they even knew what the loot was
[03:02:59] <Deformative> No problem with that.
[03:03:08] <kspath> if you know where all the mobs in a zone are you can go directly to them or avoid them as wanted/needed
[03:03:16] <Deformative> It is better htan making a client where they can make the mob come to them.
[03:03:51] <kspath> I thought you were concerned with all forms of cheating    I will not waste anymore of your time
[03:04:08] <Deformative> Heh,  no problem dude.
[03:04:27] <Deformative> Especially since I am not going to really put monsters in the game.
[03:04:31] <Deformative> I was just giving examples.
[03:04:36] <Deformative> It is going to be a full pvp game.
[03:04:51] <Deformative> But you would still need a map of the map boundrys and player positions on the server,  correct?
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[03:07:28] <Deformative> Because otherwise you would not know when there is someone on same screen as you.
[03:07:35] <Deformative> So the server would surely need to track that.
[03:09:15] <Deformative> Bleh.  /me wonders what he said to make everyone ignore him.
[03:15:32] <Deformative> Wait,  kspath,  the server needs to control that without sending it to the client the client only recieves it whenever it is within distance for it to be on the screen.
[03:15:41] <Deformative> But the server still needs to track that.
[03:15:51] <Deformative> I thought that was obious.
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[05:31:28] <Gr|ffous> All these prices that are being quoted, are you talking about the estimated second hand cost, or are these things still on sale?
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[07:05:33] <jteo> wb delewis
[07:06:43] <delewis> thanks, jteo
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[07:40:25] <Posixzombie> How can I know wheter a solaris machine was installed as a DHCP clinet or not ?
[07:41:02] <delewis> ls -la /etc/*.dhcp
[07:42:07] <Posixzombie> delewis, thanks
[07:43:33] <Posixzombie> I see now that I have a machine with static IP (no files in /etc/*.dhcp) and I want to change it to DHCP client; what should I do?
[07:44:43] <delewis> er, got that backwards.
[07:44:48] <delewis> look for /etc/dhcp.*
[07:45:03] <delewis> if you want dhcp, just touch dhcp.<interface>
[07:45:10] <delewis> /etc/dhcp.<interface>, that is
[07:45:18] <delewis> dhcp(5) can be helpful
[08:04:39] <delewis> I'm starting to hate Linux storage.
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[08:05:07] <delewis> SVM/SDS and VxVM are so much better even, and ZFS is just another world compared to it.
[08:05:37] <delewis> the only thing the Linux LVM is capable of is striping
[08:06:02] <delewis> now, you may join my pain (and laughter)
[08:13:40] <jteo> :)
[08:13:56] <jteo> it only can do striping? -sigh-
[08:28:14] <delewis> jteo, with just the LVM, yes.
[08:28:27] <delewis> if you want to do mirroring or RAID-5, you have to use the mdtools.
[08:28:46] <delewis> so you basically have to deal with two volume managers.
[08:29:17] <delewis> online filesystem resizing isn't much better, either.
[08:29:43] <delewis> with ext2/ext3 you can do it, however, with ReiserFS, XFS, etc. you have to re-mount the filesystem.
[08:30:29] <delewis> the storage situation with Linux is quite bad, in my opinion.
[08:30:36] <delewis> upon every boot, my device mappings change.
[08:30:53] <delewis> I've had one drive go from being sdn, to sdm, to sdp, to sdj.
[08:35:55] <jteo> ....
[08:36:06] <jteo> FC or SCSI? or SATA?
[08:36:07] <delewis> jteo, and I'm not joking, either :-(
[08:36:11] <delewis> jteo, FC
[08:36:18] <delewis> which means the drives should be able to be determined uniquely.
[08:36:39] <jteo> obviously you don't have the time to hack it to work. :(
[08:36:49] <delewis> I shouldn't need to hack it
[08:37:05] <Posixzombie> Any idea if nforce NIC (to which the driver is forcedeth.ko in linux) is supported in solaris ?
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[08:48:34] <delewis> looks like it doesn't rebalance your volumes, either.
[08:50:45] <delewis> heh, you add another physical volume and it doesn't stripe over it.
[08:54:45] <jteo> talk about bare boned.
[08:55:23] <delewis> and to think people ask what ZFS offers :-)
[08:55:36] * delewis sighs
[08:55:58] <jteo> slashdot was a lot more informative 7 years ago.
[08:56:10] <Doc> no, you were just dumber
[08:56:39] <delewis> "Linux powers controllable Christmas lights"...
[08:56:56] <jteo> Doc: true.
[08:56:57] <delewis> I guess it's showing off the real-time capabilities of Linux :-)
[08:57:01] <jteo> :)
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[08:57:31] <jteo> has LVM even evolved over the years?
[08:57:33] <delewis> though, somehow I doubt Christmas lights require nano-second resolution.
[08:57:42] <delewis> jteo, I used it several years ago..
[08:57:45] <delewis> it does the same as it did then
[08:58:34] <delewis> originally, I heard IBM ported the AIX LVM or were at least working with similar concepts
[08:58:51] <delewis> I doubt IBM would've written this cesspool of a volume manager, at least not without including mirroring support.
[08:59:56] <delewis> after playing with Linux storage the last few days, the time someone asks me what Solaris and ZFS have to offer, they'll get an ear-full.
[09:00:03] <delewis> next*
[09:00:59] <jteo> it's amazing how supposed technical people can't even read the entry in wikipedia. Or use google.
[09:01:12] <delewis> jteo, indeed.
[09:01:41] <delewis> I've had some fairly intelligent developers from a particular open source project ask me the question several months ago
[09:02:05] <delewis> unfortunately, my expertise with Linux storage was quite limited, and I actually expected Linux to be able to stripe and mirror in a decent manner.
[09:02:24] <delewis> was I wrong.
[09:03:46] <jteo> "based its design of that on LVM in HP-UX"
[09:03:59] <delewis> that's not correct
[09:04:05] <delewis> HP-UX uses VxVM
[09:04:48] <jteo> hmm.
[09:04:59] <jteo> (digging to see where that source came from)
[09:05:01] <delewis> if resembles the AIX LVM aesthetically (similarly named commands, and so fourth) and conceptually (same terminology -- physical volume, logical volume, volume group, etc.)
[09:05:33] <delewis> all of the man pages have Sistina Software UK on them
[09:05:44] <delewis> I'm under the impression IBM had little or nothing to do with it
[09:06:05] <delewis> instead, someone (Sistina Software) started with a new codebase and tried to implement AIX LVM-like behaviour.
[09:06:24] <delewis> the AIX LVM was actually the best thing around before ZFS came along, so that would seem reasonable.
[09:07:29] <delewis> and somewhere along the lines, the developers of the Linux LVM decided to be lazy and rely on mdtools for mirroring and RAID-5.
[09:09:04] <jteo> people actually run Redhat and accept this state of affairs?
[09:09:19] <delewis> jteo, I know. I'm as surprised as you are.
[09:09:39] <delewis> and also keep in mind, I did my testing and evaluation of CentOS, which is identical to RHEL4.
[09:09:45] <delewis> so this is as good as things get.
[09:09:58] <delewis> s/of/on/
[09:10:27] <jteo> i'm starting to equate enterprise with "bs that costs money"
[09:10:46] <delewis> in the Linux case, that's certainly true.
[09:11:05] <delewis> I find it to be impossible that someone could run their storage infrastructure on this nonsense.
[09:11:17] <delewis> and this is probably why hardware volume management solutions are popular in the Linux world.
[09:12:12] <jteo> most likely
[09:12:21] <delewis> you certainly can't run a business on this stuff. So where else are you going to turn for storage other than another platform?
[09:18:41] <jteo> digressing: hav any experience with NetApp boxes?
[09:19:33] <delewis> nope
[09:19:48] <delewis> my only hardware storage experience is with IBM
[09:20:48] <jteo> alright.
[09:23:05] <BadKarma> meh
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[09:34:11] <bougie> hello :)
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[10:11:21] <tga> greetings
[10:13:06] <Posixzombie> I wonder to which device the followng t2000 messges in kernel log boot time belong:
[10:13:08] <Posixzombie> px1 at root: 0x7c0 0x0
[10:13:19] <Posixzombie> px1 is /pci@7c0
[10:13:26] <Posixzombie> Express-device: pci@0, pxb_plx5
[10:13:55] <tga> I'm having some trouble mounting a USB drive and the USB FAQ isn't helping much
[10:14:08] <Posixzombie> in fact , the beginning was omitted; it is "PCI Express-device: pci@0, pxb_plx5"
[10:14:38] <tga> rmformat tells me the drive is on c2t0d0p0, but mount doesn't like the FS
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[10:43:08] <adam_bin> happy christmas
[10:43:13] <adam_bin> to all
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[11:56:04] <Fish> hello
[11:56:26] <Tpenta> happy christmas fish
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[11:57:12] <Fish> happy christmas Tpenta :)
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[13:07:27] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o sparc-kly
[13:07:58] *** sparc-kly changes topic to "Latest builds: SXCR: 54 | ON build: 54 |  happy christmas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
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[13:21:30] <Tempoe> Which is better, sun solaris or open solaris?
[13:23:06] <nightswim> microsoft solaris
[13:23:19] <TFKyle> microsoft solaris > *
[13:26:04] <delewis> Tempoe, Solaris is OpenSolaris, you dolt.
[13:26:15] <delewis> or rather, Solaris is an OpenSolaris-based distribution.
[13:26:46] <delewis> http://whacked.net/2005/06/21/confused-so-was-i/
[13:27:00] <delewis> that's worth a read if you're confused about the relationship between Solaris and OpenSolaris.
[13:27:05] <delewis> it *really* should be in the topic
[13:27:31] <TFKyle> unless you're talking about solaris <= 1
[13:27:33] <Auralis> put it there, the channel has no topic protection set
[13:27:34] <TFKyle> er
[13:27:37] * delewis recommends this be concatenated to the topic "For information on the relationship between Solaris and OpenSolaris, see:http://whacked.net/2005/06/21/confused-so-was-i/"
[13:27:38] <TFKyle> *10
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[13:28:36] <TFKyle> actually, I probably suck
[13:28:39] *** delewis changes topic to "Latest builds: SXCR: 54 | ON build: 54 | For information on the relationship between Solaris and OpenSolaris, see: http://whacked.net/2005/06/21/confused-s-was-i/ | happy christmas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!o"
[13:28:57] *** delewis changes topic to "Latest builds: SXCR: 54 | ON build: 54 | For information on the relationship between Solaris and OpenSolaris, see: http://whacked.net/2005/06/21/confused-s-was-i/ | happy christmas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
[13:29:00] <delewis> there.
[13:29:32] <Griffous> Well that's a new christmas best for me. 6kg in one day ;)
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[13:30:54] <jamesd> wow you benchpressed a whole 6kg?
[13:30:55] <Griffous> Does anyone have any idea what the status is of power management (specifically powernow support) in opensolaris?
[13:31:27] <Griffous> into my mouth, over the course of the day, yeah :)
[13:31:40] *** delewis changes topic to "Latest builds: SXCR: 54 | ON build: 54 | For information on the relationship between Solaris and OpenSolaris, see: http://whacked.net/2005/06/21/confused-so-was-i/ | happy christmas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
[13:31:45] <delewis> that's where that stray 'o' came from.
[13:31:51] <TFKyle> s/happy/merry/
[13:32:20] <TFKyle> I guess happy works too, just different :)
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[13:55:26] <timeless> wasn't merry a hobbit?
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[14:30:21] <kleppari_> Griffous: ..you ate six kilograms of food over one day?
[14:30:28] <kleppari_> how much do you weigh? :P
[14:30:55] <kleppari_> http://tinyurl.com/skj4t
[14:30:58] <kleppari_> heh
[14:42:34] <sickness> lol
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[14:58:32] <y3it221_klce> where can i find resources for customizing OpenSolaris
[14:59:06] <y3it221_klce> or the Belenix live CD
[15:05:13] <sickness> there's the belenix remastering tool kit on the belenix site, for example
[15:05:35] <sickness> and on bigadmin there's also an article about customizing solaris9 installcd to make something like a simple rescue live cd
[15:05:52] <y3it221_klce> sickness: i have seen it but i need to customize on my own, not depending on any scripts,
[15:06:03] <sickness> http://www.genunix.org/distributions/belenix_site/BeleniX-Remaster-HOWTO.html
[15:06:12] <y3it221_klce> thanks
[15:06:16] <sickness> yw
[15:11:16] <jteo> useful link, sickness. :)
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[15:15:18] <kleppari_> you know..  all the gnu tools run on vanilla solaris..
[15:23:55] <y3it221_klce> couldnt find link for this Vanilla solaris
[15:24:57] <delewis> http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/10
[15:24:58] <trygvis> vanilla means "plain" or "ordinary" solaris
[15:25:04] <trygvis> in this context
[15:25:13] <y3it221_klce> k
[15:26:22] <y3it221_klce> u mean Vanillla Solaris==solaris
[15:26:46] <trygvis> yes
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[15:35:11] <y3it221_klce> where can i find tutorials on Solaris.
[15:35:20] <y3it221_klce> like TLDP for linux
[15:35:21] <y3it221_klce> etc
[15:35:32] <delewis> http://docs.sun.com
[15:36:02] <delewis> http://www.sun.com/blueprints is also useful, as well.
[15:36:48] <y3it221_klce> i am a linux guy
[15:37:01] <delewis> never would've guessed.
[15:37:18] <y3it221_klce> what to work with Solaris
[15:37:18] <y3it221_klce> thanks
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