[00:01:13] <richlowe> yeesh.
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[00:21:56] <jsubl2> so does blastwave stuff work ok with sxcr 54.. was thinking about trying qemu.. I need a w2k session to connect to work
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[02:34:47] <BadKArma> meh
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[02:35:34] <whaq> heh
[02:35:47] <BadKArma> whaq: meh, not heh
[02:36:23] <BadKArma> meh means: yes/no/mayby/listen biatch I dont care so why dont u just shutup/etc/etc...
[02:36:33] <BadKArma> maybe
[02:36:42] <BadKArma> cant see the kbrd*
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[02:58:14] <TrizTriz> H!
[03:03:04] <whaq> heh
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[03:35:49] <Deformative> Can anyone explain the solaris/opensolaris package manager?  I am a freebsd user currently.
[03:36:24] <Deformative> Also does solaris have anything special that makes java apps run nicer?
[03:37:05] <delewis> you add a package via pkgadd, you remove a package via pkgrm, you can view package info with pkgrm, and you can create a package with pkgproto, pkgmk, pkgtrans, etc.
[03:37:07] <delewis> it's really quite simple.
[03:37:10] <fedorared> Deformative, a standard Sun  HotSpot Java VM
[03:37:36] <delewis> Deformative, Solaris does have more observability tools to allow you to tune your Java apps, JVM, etc.
[03:37:48] <delewis> but no, it's a standard JVM.
[03:38:09] <delewis> er, you view package info with pkginfo
[03:40:35] <Deformative> So binary then?
[03:40:46] <Deformative> Or source?
[03:41:10] <delewis> binary, of course.
[03:41:15] <Deformative> Cool.
[03:41:16] <delewis> source is useless in a production environment
[03:41:27] <Deformative> Solaris sounds nice.
[03:41:38] <Deformative> How about multi-threading?
[03:41:44] <Deformative> A lot of support there?
[03:42:11] <delewis> given Solaris can run on a systems with 64 or more processors, I'd say so.
[03:42:21] <delewis> it schedules at the thread level, rather than the process level, as well.
[03:42:33] <Deformative> Hmm,  cool.
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[03:42:43] <Deformative> When/if I get my sparc I will surely use solaris.
[03:42:49] <Deformative> I might even try it out on my laptop right now.
[03:42:50] <delewis> to say the least, FreeBSD won't hold a candle to it on scalability.
[03:43:09] <Deformative> How about wireless?
[03:44:01] <delewis> that works, too, given you have a supported card (I don't know any off the top of my head)
[03:44:12] <Deformative> Cool.
[03:44:29] <delewis> if you run a 32-bit kernel, you can use ndiswrapper
[03:44:39] <trygvis> delewis: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/laptop/wireless/
[03:44:48] <Deformative> I hope I get the sparc within 5 months...  But I could put it on my lappy right now.
[03:45:08] <delewis> you can run it in VMware, as well.
[03:47:18] <Deformative> Hmm, I need to reformat that laptop anyways.
[03:47:29] <Deformative> What has better wireless support open or non?
[03:50:05] <Deformative> Oh,  and one last things,  how are uptimes compaired to freebsd?
[03:51:09] <delewis> Deformative, http://whacked.net/2005/06/21/confused-so-was-i/
[03:51:13] <Auralis> you want solaris express community release as starting point
[03:51:24] <delewis> you might want to give that a read to understand the relationship between Solaris and OpenSolaris
[03:51:42] <delewis> but you'll want to use a Solaris Express release (which is OpenSolaris-based) for wireless support, rather than Solaris 10.
[03:51:55] <delewis> Deformative, Solaris is used in lots of important places.
[03:52:02] <delewis> places more important than where you'll find FreeBSD>
[03:52:03] <Auralis> solaris has no problem to stay up as long as the system has no hardware failure
[03:52:10] <delewis> suffice it to say, Solaris is rock-solid.
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[03:52:36] <delewis> it takes great care it making sure kernel data structures and so fourth are valid at any given point.
[03:52:41] <Deformative> Hmm,  very cool.
[03:52:55] <Deformative> I like the sounds of this,  now I really want this sparc.
[03:53:08] <delewis> and it still is able to do this with a fully pre-emptive kernel, so performance is maintained, as well.
[03:54:46] <Auralis> given supported hardware, it runs just as fine on a x86 box
[03:55:28] <delewis> it should, too, given Sun is selling some pretty high-end AMD64 hardware, nowadays.
[03:55:40] <delewis> and Solaris is making use of all those AMD64 features, too.
[03:56:04] <Deformative> Hmm,  well the reason I want to buy a sparc in the first place is because i want a testing server for this server I am disigning for an mmorpg in java.
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[03:56:26] <delewis> Deformative, what kind of "SPARC"?
[03:56:28] <Deformative> Just as a learning experience.
[03:56:41] <Deformative> Uh,  not sure yet,  something I can get off ebay.
[03:56:42] <Deformative> Heh.
[03:57:00] <delewis> Deformative, I suggest you look at an Ultra 2, Ultra 60, or SB1000 (if you can splurge)
[03:57:23] <delewis> a decent Ultra 2 will run you $150 or less (just make sure you get UltraSPARC-II processors and not UltraSPARC-I's)
[03:57:34] <delewis> Ultra 60 is $150-$300, and an SB1000 is $300-$600.
[03:57:45] <Deformative> How many cpus will be on the machine for 150 dollars?
[03:57:50] <delewis> Deformative, 2
[03:58:05] <Deformative> Hmm.
[03:58:22] <delewis> you can find a loaded configuration for $150 usually -- 2x300MHz UltraSPARC-II processors /w 2MB of L2 cache per proc, 1-2GB of memory, and 1 or 2 SCSI disks.
[03:58:27] <delewis> typically 9-18GB
[03:58:38] <delewis> they're nice systems.
[03:58:49] <Deformative> Yeah, I know you can get some REALLY good deals on sparcs on ebay.
[03:58:57] <delewis> yes, you can.
[03:59:06] <delewis> I've bought too much Sun hardware off of Ebay lately :-)
[03:59:16] <Deformative> I think I am going to need something with at least 2 gig of ram I think.
[03:59:29] <delewis> in the last year, I've purchased a Blade 1000, an E4500, and an Ultra 2.
[03:59:42] <delewis> Deformative, the Ultra 2 maxes out at 2GB
[03:59:57] <delewis> though, it'll be hard finding an Ultra 2 with the 1GB memory kits
[04:00:01] <Deformative> Hmm, what model would have 4 cpus and 2 gb ram?
[04:00:04] <delewis> you'll most likely find one with 1GB to 1.5GB
[04:00:09] <delewis> Deformative, Ultra 80
[04:00:15] <delewis> which is in the price-range of an SB1000
[04:00:18] <delewis> $300-$500
[04:00:28] <delewis> up to 4x450MHz processors and 4GB of memory
[04:00:29] <Auralis> e450, e420r, ultra80, e3000 and up
[04:00:44] * delewis shudders at the mention of an E3000/E3500
[04:01:38] <Deformative> You guys are making me want one even more.
[04:01:38] <Deformative> Heh.
[04:01:45] <Deformative> I just blew a lot of money on a new lappy.
[04:01:51] <delewis> it's nice hardware :-)
[04:01:52] <Deformative> And now I want a new server too.
[04:01:55] <Auralis> heh
[04:01:56] <delewis> and it'll stay usable over a long period of time
[04:02:02] <delewis> far more usable than a peecee will.
[04:02:17] <delewis> my Ultra 2 is still usable, and it's coming on 10-years-old.
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[04:02:41] <Deformative> THe thing that will kill you on ebay is you will get a pc for 200 dollars then another 200 in shipping.
[04:02:43] <Deformative> =[
[04:03:01] <delewis> shipping isn't that bad for a system, like an Ultra 2 or Ultra 80.
[04:03:10] <delewis> $200 shipping is an E4500 :-)
[04:03:16] <delewis> which weighs about 200-220lbs.
[04:03:24] <Deformative> Oh,  no wonder.
[04:03:25] <Deformative> Heh.
[04:03:34] <delewis> you'll be looking in the $50-$80 range for shipping in the US
[04:03:35] <Deformative> http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-Enterprise-E4500-Quad-250MHZ-4GB-9-1GB_W0QQitemZ280061002114QQihZ018QQcategoryZ51238QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[04:03:40] <Deformative> It looks like a safre.
[04:03:45] <Deformative> safe*
[04:03:46] <Deformative> Heh.
[04:03:54] <delewis> yeah.
[04:03:59] <delewis> that's a shitty configuration, though.
[04:04:10] <Auralis> its build like a safe as well :)
[04:04:21] <delewis> and they aren't very large, contrary to what you might think.
[04:04:22] <Auralis> solid steel frames and all that
[04:04:29] <delewis> I was pretty surprised when I saw mine
[04:04:37] <delewis> but they're dense
[04:05:20] <Deformative> It would be nice to find one in my area so I could pick it up and get no shipping.
[04:05:37] <delewis> Deformative, I'd avoid the E4500 unless you can meet the cooling and power requirements.
[04:05:53] <delewis> something like an Ultra 80 or E420R (they're the same system) should be able to meet your needs.
[04:05:58] <Deformative> Yeah, I am just looking around now.
[04:06:05] <delewis> an E4500 would be overkill, especially on your power bill.
[04:06:12] <Deformative> Heh,  keep it in a freezer.
[04:06:20] <delewis> they'll heat a room, seriously.
[04:06:31] <delewis> I have to pop up on a window until I can get more fans for this room.
[04:06:39] <Deformative> Bleh, my amd athlon 1700+ heats my room somehow.
[04:07:19] <delewis> you'll need to also purchase an external JBOD for the E4500, unless you want to be cheap and buy a disk board.
[04:07:26] <delewis> I'd advise against that, though -- disk boards suck.
[04:07:53] <Deformative> http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-E4000-Server-w-12x-336-MHz-12-GB-Memory_W0QQitemZ120066816425QQihZ002QQcategoryZ106272QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[04:08:04] <Auralis> don't underestimate the cost of runing such thing, they draw major power
[04:08:07] <Deformative> Heh,  yeah I don't want those safe like ones.
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[04:08:18] <delewis> Deformative, better, but E4000s are slower than an E4500
[04:08:23] <delewis> despite the somewhat similar processors
[04:08:31] <delewis> the IO boards and backplane or slower
[04:08:34] <delewis> s/or/are/
[04:09:05] <Deformative> When I am actually going to buy one I will surely come back to this channel for help.
[04:09:33] <Deformative> http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-Enterprise-450-UltraSPARC-II-4x-400MHz-4GB-Server_W0QQitemZ250064377758QQihZ015QQcategoryZ106272QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem  That is more than I need.
[04:09:47] <Auralis> e450 are nice
[04:10:18] <Deformative> that is a nice price.
[04:10:31] <Deformative> I think?
[04:11:04] <Deformative> Power cable sold separatly,  wtf...
[04:12:23] <Auralis> just standard powercable
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[04:12:49] <Deformative> Oh,  that's good.
[04:13:08] <Deformative> Yeah,  when I get one I don't think I am gonna get a monitor for it.
[04:13:16] <Deformative> Just a dedicated server connected to eathernet in the basement.
[04:14:03] <Auralis> you don't need a monitor for them either, sparcs are happy to give you a serial console
[04:14:15] <Sandra2> Hello! The torrents at dlc.sun.com/torrents are usually very old. Why?
[04:16:02] <Deformative> They cannot connect to standard vga monitor can it?
[04:16:26] <Auralis> Deformative: depends on the gfx card used
[04:17:14] <Auralis> however, you don't need a monitor for a sparc, ever
[04:17:38] <Deformative> You can ssh without a os installed/
[04:17:39] <Deformative> ?
[04:17:58] <Auralis> you have a serial console
[04:18:07] <delewis> Deformative, no, it's real hardware. The system console isn't bound to VGA graphics.
[04:18:22] <Deformative> How does a serial console work?
[04:18:23] <delewis> you can re-direct console output to serial port A.
[04:19:10] <delewis> you run a null modem cable from one computer to the SPARC, and use something like cu, tip, or minicom to communicate with it.
[04:19:21] <Deformative> Oh.
[04:19:22] <Deformative> Interesting.
[04:19:25] <delewis> or you can find yourself a real, true serial terminal like a VT100 or IBM 3151.
[04:19:49] <delewis> Wyse, even.
[04:20:02] <Deformative> Ugh, I want one so bad now.
[04:20:32] <delewis> here's a laugh: I was in #fedora today (don't ask) and wanted to know if you could do an install on a headless system (it's a pSeries)
[04:20:39] <Auralis> that stuff is designed to be put in a datacenter and used remotely. a correctly setup system needs only to be visited for hardware changes
[04:20:40] <delewis> the responses were "Yes, you can use VNC"
[04:20:50] * delewis shakes head in shame
[04:21:07] <Auralis> lol
[04:21:08] <delewis> peecee twits.
[04:21:18] <delewis> and then they said I didn't clarrify enough.
[04:21:38] <delewis> at that point, I gave them "that's your lame, peecee definition of `headless'"
[04:21:39] <Auralis> install is pretty clear
[04:21:48] <Auralis> and why vnc? its running frelling x11
[04:21:57] <delewis> Auralis, they're peecee users.
[04:22:00] <delewis> what can you expect?
[04:22:21] <fedorared> delewis, Fedora doesn't release for that arch. Though the devel branch builds for it, I believe.
[04:22:36] <delewis> fedorared, they have PowerPC media.
[04:22:45] <fedorared> Oh, ppc.
[04:22:58] <delewis> what do you think a pSeries is? (well, POWER)
[04:23:19] <fedorared> was thinking  zSeries  ><
[04:23:20] <Deformative> So e450 is another to add to the list?
[04:23:37] <Auralis> e450 is a nice box
[04:23:43] <Sandra2> Hello! The bittorrents at dlc.sun.com/torrents are usually very old (14 August). Why?
[04:24:04] <Auralis> i would have to guess, because noone put newer ones up
[04:24:11] <Deformative> Do you think it would work for me,  does it suck power,  is it really warm,  anything I shoudl know about?
[04:24:24] <delewis> Deformative, no, they're just somewhat large and heavy.
[04:24:35] <delewis> they only have up to 4xUltraSPARC-II processors
[04:24:41] <delewis> so they shouldn't put out too much heat
[04:24:54] <Auralis> doesn;t sucks more power then a modern x86, unless you fill it up with all 20 drives
[04:24:57] <delewis> power might be a bit steep, as it's got a PSU powerful enough to power all the internal disks it can hold.
[04:25:20] <delewis> the only downside I see of an E450 is the shipping costs
[04:25:33] <delewis> which would probably be in the $100-$150 range.
[04:25:38] <Deformative> Dang.
[04:25:47] <Deformative> Well that would be 300 dollars.
[04:25:51] <Deformative> So that's still cool.
[04:26:11] <delewis> and you'd get a chance to buy some disks later and play around with storage in Solaris.
[04:26:24] <delewis> which is anything but "un-interesting"
[04:26:46] <Deformative> Hmm, I wonder if I would need to put the server in a datacenter.
[04:26:59] <Deformative> So as to not suck my bandwidth.
[04:27:13] <delewis> E450 might be pretty costly to do colo.
[04:27:16] <Deformative> How much does it cost to put a server in a datacenter, does anyone know?
[04:27:19] <delewis> they're difficult to rack and very large.
[04:27:28] <Deformative> Oh...
[04:27:41] <delewis> you can't rack them by yourself unless you throw them on the bottom of the rack.
[04:27:52] <Auralis> for colo you want the smallest stuff generaly, 1U boxes
[04:27:59] <delewis> and even then, it's pretty difficult
[04:28:37] <delewis> I've never done one myself, but I've heard "tales" of how much a PITA it is.
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[04:29:01] <dclarke> hello
[04:29:02] <delewis> and E450s take up major rack-space.
[04:29:15] <delewis> your colo provider would make sure you feel the pain cost-wise :-)
[04:29:26] <dclarke> hello there delewis ..
[04:29:31] <delewis> greetings, dclarke
[04:29:52] <Deformative> What about an ultra 60.
[04:30:03] <dclarke> was someone thinking of hosting an E450 ??
[04:30:03] <Deformative> How much would rack space cost for that do you think?
[04:30:04] <delewis> not a lot of scalability, but still decent.
[04:30:14] <delewis> 2xUltraSPARC-II procs and 2GB of memory with 2 internal disks.
[04:30:15] <dclarke> an Ultra 60 ?  ick
[04:30:24] <dclarke> get a SunBlade 2500
[04:30:32] <dclarke> or better yet a V210
[04:30:39] <dclarke> its 1U and dual proc
[04:30:41] <delewis> Ultra 60 wouldn't be too bad for colo, but you'll probably have to pay your colo provider an extra fee for a rack conversion kit
[04:30:48] <Auralis> excdpt you don't get those for 300 bucks
[04:30:49] <delewis> or they might not even allow it.
[04:30:56] <dclarke> $300 ?
[04:30:59] <dclarke> oh .. well
[04:31:05] <delewis> I would say a Netra T1
[04:31:08] <dclarke> yes .. thats a major hurdle
[04:31:10] <delewis> but that's *zero* scalability
[04:31:29] <dclarke> a Netra T1 with 1GB of RAM makes a damn fine web server
[04:31:42] <delewis> dclarke, he's planning on doing Java development with it
[04:31:53] <dclarke> it will do that too .. slowly
[04:31:56] <delewis> I fear a T1 would he a bit stretched for that.
[04:32:07] <delewis> s/he/be/
[04:32:12] <dclarke> well .. they are real solid
[04:32:20] <Deformative> Well, an mmorpg server.
[04:32:27] <Deformative> A lot of connections to handle.
[04:32:40] <Deformative> So I figured it would be a good idea to have like >2 procs.
[04:32:56] <dclarke> V210
[04:32:59] <delewis> Deformative, I suggest you do some performance analysis on your app
[04:33:11] <delewis> and see whether it's CPU or IO bound, or neither.
[04:33:17] <delewis> and then buy the appropriate system
[04:33:24] <delewis> you might be able to get away with just a T1.
[04:33:36] <dclarke> is this a long term development project ?
[04:33:47] <dclarke> or a short haul thing ?
[04:33:52] <Deformative> Just something I am doing for fun.
[04:33:57] <Deformative> Me and some friends.
[04:34:18] <dclarke> well .. so get an account somewhere that will just give you the required resources for a while
[04:34:24] <dclarke> spend no money .. get on with it
[04:34:33] <Deformative> We want to make a server in java and develop a client from there,  but if we fail on that,  we know of a nice emulated server and a client that we could reverse engineer.
[04:35:30] <delewis> dclarke, he'll be paying a lot of money for a service provider that provides J2EE.
[04:35:33] <delewis> that's big bucks, usually.
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[04:35:56] <delewis> I've heard of a few shops that provide it cheaply, but those are pretty rare.
[04:36:19] <Deformative> Well,  I wouldn't go to a data center right away,  for testing I would keep it on my home modem,  but if I get more users than I can handle it would go into a data center.
[04:37:38] <delewis> I don't see an MMORPG being a bandwidth-intensive workload.
[04:37:41] <delewis> if written properly, that is.
[04:38:10] <Deformative> Yeah,  me either,  that is why I wasn't really worrying about the data center thing for a long time.
[04:38:26] <Deformative> I am more worried about buying a sparc,  because I want one even if the game thing falls through.
[04:38:37] <delewis> well, the thing is about Solaris is the quality and quantity of observability tools.
[04:38:50] <delewis> you'll be able to pinpoint any bottlenecks in your application and hardware pretty easily.
[04:39:04] <Deformative> Heh/
[04:39:10] <delewis> at least compared to other operating systems.
[04:39:23] <Deformative> Yeah, that is why we wanted to get into this game,  a lot of learning.
[04:39:25] <delewis> it might not be easy in some cases to directly infer what's going on, but the capability is certainly there.
[04:39:26] <Auralis> just get a box that you can afford and looks cool to you, worry about colo much later
[04:39:42] <Deformative> What does colo mean?
[04:39:49] <delewis> Deformative, hosted in a datacenter
[04:39:52] <delewis> co-located
[04:39:55] <Deformative> Oh.
[04:39:57] <Deformative> Alright.
[04:40:08] <Deformative> Yeah.
[04:40:13] <Deformative> That is what I was planning on.
[04:40:35] <Deformative> Hmm, I wonder if I should put solaris on my current server as well or just one of my laptops.
[04:40:43] <Deformative> I will test it on my lappy first.
[04:40:58] <Auralis> have fun with it, learn and all that, and when you realy have the need for colo, much better systems will be gotten cheaper :)
[04:41:40] <Deformative> http://cgi.ebay.com/SUN-SB1000-SUNBLADE-1000-BASE-UNIT-A28-SB1000_W0QQitemZ120066623017QQihZ002QQcategoryZ162QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem  Is it just me or does it not talk about the specs at all?
[04:42:30] <Sandra2> Are you guys using Solaris 10 or Solaris Express or SXCR or what?
[04:42:54] <delewis> Sandra2, depends on what you're doing.
[04:43:04] <Auralis> Deformative: i would not buy that thing, he writes base unit, could be very well just the case, psu and mainboard only
[04:43:09] <delewis> for production, I think most are running Solaris 10, but for testing and development, Solaris Express.
[04:43:21] <delewis> there's even a few shops running Solaris Express in production.
[04:43:38] <Deformative> I think I am gonna end up with a ultra 60 or e450,  more likely an ultra 60 because of price, but it would be nice to have 4 cpus.
[04:43:39] <Deformative> ^_^
[04:44:09] <Auralis> yes, solaris loves many cpus, the more the better
[04:44:17] <delewis> same goes for memory.
[04:44:42] <delewis> or any resource -- Solaris scales that well.
[04:44:47] <Sandra2> i am using SXCR 53 for Sparc. The icons move every time i log in. Strange.
[04:45:11] * Deformative doesn't need a lot of hard disk space for anything.
[04:45:58] <Deformative> What would be the cheepest system I can get with 4 cpus and >= 1 gig of ram
[04:46:29] <delewis> Deformative, an Ultra 80/E420R
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[04:46:39] <delewis> they're very nice systemx
[04:46:42] <delewis> systems, rather
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[04:46:47] <delewis> and the heating/power requirements aren't insane, either.
[04:46:56] <Auralis> e450 possible, or e420r, ultra80
[04:47:07] <delewis> shipping won't be too bad on them, either
[04:47:14] <delewis> probably $60-$80
[04:48:14] <Deformative> Cool.
[04:48:23] <Deformative> This channel is very helpful.
[04:49:04] <delewis> we're certainly not #debian.
[04:49:20] <lloy0076> I've found the #opensolaris channel to be quite helpful.
[04:49:21] <Deformative> Hehe.
[04:49:39] <Deformative> I actually think ##c is the worst there is.
[04:49:46] <lloy0076> #java can be quite bad.
[04:49:50] <lloy0076> #zope is as well.
[04:49:51] <Deformative> Can be.
[04:49:56] <Deformative> But java has it's moments.
[04:50:09] <Deformative> Where they are helpful.
[04:50:18] <Deformative> ##c just says READ K&R AND GO AWAY.
[04:50:19] <Deformative> HEh.
[04:50:24] <Deformative> Even if you have read it already.
[04:50:33] <dclarke> sorry .. ran out
[04:50:37] <dclarke> back now
[04:50:39] <lloy0076> Actually, given that #zope is actually about Zope 2.9.X and they kind of assume that you make the connection that #zope ISN'T about the latest stable 3.X series...
[04:50:52] <lloy0076> ...one can get seriously flamed there.
[04:51:03] * delewis loves K&R
[04:51:13] <lloy0076> delewis: I think I have an almost original edition.
[04:51:18] <Deformative> Yeah,  I am not that fond of C.
[04:51:20] <Deformative> =/
[04:51:22] <lloy0076> delewis: It's so concise and nifty.
[04:51:27] <Deformative> I like D.
[04:51:29] <delewis> mine is just the regular, second edition for ANSI C.
[04:51:32] <delewis> nothing special.
[04:51:38] <Deformative> I cannot wait untill D gains more popularity.
[04:51:39] <delewis> I keep it beside my desk always.
[04:51:48] <delewis> along with Solaris Systems Programming, and Solaris Internals.
[04:51:51] <Deformative> I like Java for server side stuff,  but not much other than that.
[04:52:15] <Auralis> D is the scripting languaged of DTrace :)
[04:52:32] <Deformative> Nuh uh.
[04:52:41] <Deformative> D is a language simular to C++.
[04:52:44] <Deformative> Just better.
[04:53:03] <delewis> Deformative, the language that DTrace uses is also called "D"
[04:53:08] <Deformative> Ah.
[04:53:14] <Deformative> I am talking about digital mars.
[04:53:20] <delewis> if you don't know what DTrace is, it's just another observability tool (a very nice one, at that)
[04:53:27] <delewis> you can literally see anything that's going on.
[04:53:36] <delewis> from system calls, to locks, etc.
[04:53:40] <Deformative> Hmm,  the only problem with these sparc machines is that I don't want to pay for the graphics card.
[04:53:41] <Deformative> =/
[04:54:00] <delewis> and you can do all sorts of statistical distributions for analysis over a time interval
[04:54:15] <delewis> Deformative, graphics is cheap.
[04:54:22] <delewis> unless you plan on doing OpenGL, an Elite3D should suffice.
[04:54:25] <delewis> those run about $20.
[04:54:52] <Deformative> No, I would rather they gave me a discount for not shipping the graphics card to me.
[04:54:53] <delewis> you'll need to get yourself a 13w3->VGA adapter, too (that's an additional $5-$10, usually)
[04:54:56] <Deformative> Like a 20 dollar discount.
[04:54:57] <Deformative> Heh.
[04:56:09] <Auralis> most servers don't have a gfx card, gfx cards you find mainly in workstation class machines
[04:56:15] <delewis> I doubt they'll do that for you, given a SPARC graphics card isn't the easiest thing to pawn off and still make a profit.
[04:56:28] <Deformative> Yeah.
[04:56:33] <Deformative> Oh well.
[04:56:40] <Deformative> So ultra 80 looks nice.
[04:58:10] <Deformative> But it looks like they have a tendancy to have a lot of ram and few prossessors.
[04:58:31] <delewis> odd
[04:58:37] <delewis> most configurations should have 2-4 processors.
[04:58:46] <Deformative> http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-Ultra-80-2x450MHz-4GB-Memory-9GB-Hard-Drive_W0QQitemZ250063276022QQihZ015QQcategoryZ20328QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[04:58:53] <lloy0076> Anyone got any recommendations of a Sparc based system to run SXCR (>50) that: a) won't cost a bomb to get from eBay but b) Not make me a skeleton waiting for it to build from source...
[04:59:00] <delewis> a 4 processor configuration with 4GB of memory shouldn't run you more than $400
[04:59:00] <Deformative> I want it.
[04:59:01] <Deformative> heh.
[04:59:07] <delewis> a friend of mine recently bought one loaded for $350
[04:59:18] <Deformative> 4 gb of mem omg,  that is like whoa.
[04:59:21] <delewis> unfortunately, Fedex dropped it during shipping.
[04:59:26] <Deformative> I have never even used a pc with more than 512 m.
[04:59:27] <delewis> Deformative, I've got 8GB in my E4500 :-)
[04:59:36] <lloy0076> delewis: I take it that you're talking US Dollars.
[04:59:41] <delewis> lloy0076, yes.
[05:00:07] <mustang> delewis: how nasty's the E4500 on power ?
[05:00:14] <Auralis> nasty
[05:00:16] <delewis> mustang, not bad in TN.
[05:00:20] <mustang> there's two at work that will fall off the asset register soon.
[05:00:22] <delewis> but anywhere else it would be insane
[05:00:39] <delewis> I think I'm paying an extra $50/month with TN's $0.06/kwhr rating
[05:00:40] <mustang> I see. TN big on cheap nuclear power or something? :)
[05:00:49] <delewis> mustang, hydroelectric.
[05:00:56] <delewis> thanks to the TVA.
[05:00:57] <lloy0076> "TN" is...?
[05:01:01] <mustang> naha.
[05:01:02] <delewis> lloy0076, Tennessee
[05:01:25] <mustang> I don't know much of the geography of Tennessee. I just know there's whiskey and whittlin'.
[05:01:30] <lloy0076> Ah. Sorry, I'm an Australian. We should be the 51st state of the US given our stupid Prime Minister but alas, we are not!
[05:01:37] <delewis> mustang, we have two major rivers that go right through
[05:01:42] <delewis> makes for cheap power :-)
[05:01:49] <mustang> lloy0076: shhhh. I was just about to get onto how we don't drink Fosters or ride kangaroos :)
[05:01:50] <richlowe> one full of whisky, one full of saw dust!
[05:01:59] <richlowe> or did I mix statements there? :)
[05:02:10] <lloy0076> mustang: I have a kangaroo in my backyard. Seriously.
[05:02:12] * lloy0076 evil smirk
[05:02:37] <mustang> delewis: excellent. so long as it doesnt' break things ecosystemwise, that's fabulous.
[05:02:52] <delewis> well, we're also major coal consumers, too.
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[05:02:56] <Deformative> Heh,  put solar panels on your house,  then on sunny days your power meter goes backwards.
[05:02:59] <delewis> those rivers also make for excellent shipping lanes
[05:03:35] <lloy0076> Deformative: Solar panels contain heavy metals and other stuff. They're almost as bad as nuclear power.
[05:03:47] <richlowe> there's ORNL too.
[05:03:50] <Deformative> You still make money.
[05:03:51] <lloy0076> I say that we turn the electricy off during the night time.
[05:03:52] <richlowe> just to cover both sides of that statement.
[05:04:06] <lloy0076> electricity too.
[05:04:07] <delewis> that's true.
[05:04:38] <Deformative> So cool, nasa making a solar powered colony on the moon.
[05:04:46] * Deformative wants to work for nasa one day.
[05:04:51] <delewis> "We're going back to the moon!"
[05:04:56] <lloy0076> Are SunBlade 100s any good??
[05:05:04] <mustang> to establish a colony of space chimps?
[05:05:07] <delewis> lloy0076, they aren't bad, but nothing spectacular.
[05:05:07] <Auralis> as monitorstands
[05:05:30] <mustang> lloy0076: they're pretty awful. Think Ultra-5 with a new case.
[05:05:33] <delewis> an Ultra 2 or Ultra 60 is a much better system
[05:05:41] <lloy0076> Ok, I'll look for one of them.
[05:05:49] <delewis> and they don't even begin to compare to a Blade 1000 or Ultra 80.
[05:06:08] <mustang> lloy0076: which state are you in? I have a U2 that's mostly just stopping my garage floor from flying into space.
[05:07:22] <dclarke> delewis : do you have access to fast Power gear ?
[05:07:51] <delewis> dclarke, not anymore. All I have now is a single pSeries p640 (RS/6000 7026-B80) circa 2001.
[05:08:09] <delewis> 2x375MHz POWER3-II's with 8MB of L2 cache/proc and 2GB of memory.
[05:08:16] <dclarke> hrmmm .. okay .. I was looking for a comparison
[05:08:25] <dclarke> 2 x 375 MHz eh ?
[05:08:33] <delewis> yeah.
[05:08:38] <dclarke> well .. maybe I can interest you in a new EFIKA
[05:08:49] <dclarke> Blastwave will be selling them at $499
[05:09:01] <dclarke> but thats a full system .. case .. power supply and all that
[05:09:10] <delewis> no cash at the moment :-( I'm just a poor, unemployed student.
[05:09:21] <dclarke> in that case I'll find a way to send you one for free
[05:09:22] <delewis> but maybe in the future
[05:09:32] <delewis> oh, sweet.
[05:09:35] <delewis> anything I need to do?
[05:09:38] <dclarke> its a 400MHz ppc unit
[05:09:43] <dclarke> drop me an email
[05:09:52] <delewis> PPC970 or some such?
[05:09:53] <dclarke> its not like I'm tough to find
[05:09:58] <delewis> yeah :-)
[05:10:03] <dclarke> no .. its a 32-bit unit still
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[05:10:15] <dclarke> the PPC970 is around the corner
[05:10:17] <delewis> ah, does it do Altivec?
[05:10:23] <dclarke> yes
[05:10:26] <delewis> sweet.
[05:10:30] <dclarke> or .. I better verify
[05:10:35] <dclarke> it runs video fairly well
[05:10:38] <delewis> I'll drop you an email with my shipping address and contact information
[05:10:43] <dclarke> please do
[05:10:52] <dclarke> I have 3 units here at the moment
[05:10:53] <jamesd> hi all
[05:10:56] <lloy0076> dclarke: You might - but can you send them overseas?
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[05:11:10] <dclarke> and you are definately a Solaris/OpenSolaris long standing character
[05:11:11] <jteo> happy eve.
[05:11:24] <delewis> dclarke, thanks :-)
[05:11:26] <lloy0076> jteo: Yes, indeed.
[05:11:41] * lloy0076 sigh - it'll be next year in no time
[05:11:45] <dclarke> Christms Eve .. oh yes .. I guess it must be somewhere
[05:12:02] <dclarke> jamesd : I posted a comment on your blog
[05:12:17] <dclarke> jamesd : I couldn't recall my blogger login info .. so its anon
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[05:12:28] <jamesd> dclarke, yeap...   i just read it
[05:12:49] <lloy0076> Damn, if you don't limit it to computers and IT you get sunglasses for sale on ebay :P
[05:13:00] <dclarke> delewis: I was looking for someone with blazing fast Power gear to do a benchmark comparison
[05:13:30] <dclarke> delewis: but .. you would be stuck recompiling everything
[05:13:53] <delewis> dclarke, at my last gig, I had access to some fairly fast hardware like a p650 (2x1.8GHz POWER4s) and a p5 570 (16xPOWER5s), but that ended last year about this time.
[05:13:59] <delewis> dclarke, no problem
[05:14:06] <delewis> I've also got the IBM compilers
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[05:15:48] <dclarke> I figured that you would :-)
[05:16:25] <dclarke> I have a 1GHz US III here running a test
[05:16:44] <dclarke> and thus far its whooping fast compared to a 1GHz sun4v .. which is spooky
[05:18:00] <jamesd> dclarke, you have to hammer the   t2000 to get good numbers out of it...   make -j 8    a couple large projects like kde and  openoffice   and it begins to seem fast.
[05:18:06] <dclarke> I think that the binary needs to be compiled specifically for the UltraSparc T1 to get real performance
[05:18:37] <dclarke> well .. I am starting with a single threaded process
[05:18:47] <richlowe> ... that's kinda not the point of the T1
[05:18:52] <delewis> yeah, a T1 won't do a very good job on a single-threaded workload.
[05:18:53] <dclarke> and its floating point intense
[05:18:54] <jamesd> single threaded processes suck on the T1
[05:19:03] <dclarke> do they ever ...
[05:19:05] <richlowe> most things say each individual core is slightly slower than an equivalently clocked US-III
[05:19:06] <delewis> you definitely want some sort of parallelization or threading.
[05:19:09] <richlowe> you just have 8 times as many of them.
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[05:19:42] <dclarke> well .. I figured that an 8 core T2000 has how many FPU ?  just 1 right ?
[05:19:48] <richlowe> Yes.
[05:19:50] <delewis> dclarke, yes, it's shared.
[05:19:54] <jteo> unfortunately.
[05:19:57] <delewis> and no VIS (well, emulated VIS, that is)
[05:20:03] <richlowe> not entirely.
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[05:20:11] <dclarke> okay .. so in that case .. single threaded floating point intense is the limit on it
[05:20:18] <richlowe> some bits of vis are on the cores, bits of vis are in software
[05:20:45] <richlowe> no, I'm insane.
[05:20:48] <richlowe> ignore that. :)
[05:20:59] <delewis> richlowe, I was going to quote the T1 manual :-)
[05:20:59] <delewis> damn.
[05:21:04] <dclarke> its specifally designed to kick ass with web services I would think
[05:21:06] <jamesd> really if the process is  floating point intensive at all it will suck, because i think the fpu is round robbined to each core weather they need it or not.
[05:21:20] <delewis> ouch.
[05:21:23] <dclarke> it probably runs the Java Enterprise Web services like mad
[05:21:30] <delewis> dclarke, definitely.
[05:21:51] <jamesd> yeap.. anything that is multithreaded and   io and interger math intensive and it will rock... else it will suck
[05:21:56] <delewis> it'll blow anything away, given the workload is multi-threaded and not floating-point intensive.
[05:22:11] <delewis> which is ideal for most Java applications and database workloads.
[05:22:19] <dclarke> sort of a multi-threaded integer based drag racer
[05:22:21] <dclarke> but
[05:22:36] <dclarke> if you need the sqrt(2) then it halts to get a calculator out
[05:22:43] <jamesd> dclarke, i think you are going to end up  deploying  4-5 zones on the box to keep it busy else it won't be kept busy enough to matter.
[05:23:01] <dclarke> well .. I was thinking that zones is the way to go
[05:23:14] <dclarke> I'll be the first guy around ( maybe ) to install Lotus Domino on it
[05:23:28] <delewis> Sun is doing a huge effort to push containers on the T1
[05:23:43] <dclarke> oh hell .. its kinda late
[05:23:44] <delewis> the T1 is mentioned heavily throughout the latest Blueprint on Containers.
[05:24:03] <dclarke> well .. the one thing missing for zones is storage
[05:24:12] <dclarke> it appears to have no real storage attached
[05:24:15] <jamesd> it can replace the webserver,  svn,  and be a dmake server to help out the sparc build stack
[05:24:22] <dclarke> and thus network based is the way to go .. or fibre
[05:24:48] <delewis> are you taking about storage with zones in general or storage and a T1?
[05:24:53] <dclarke> jamesd : yeah .. I was thinking that I can drop the webserver there
[05:24:57] <delewis> you can give a zone access to a device/raw device, etc.
[05:25:19] <dclarke> a zone requires disk space somewhere
[05:25:38] <dclarke> and last thing I saw recommended NOT to base a zone entirely in ZFS
[05:25:48] <jteo> because of upgrades?
[05:25:52] <jamesd> yes but  a few GB  zfs pool and you can put a dozen zones on it if they are not disk space intensive.
[05:25:53] <richlowe> delewis: finally found what I was thinking of.
[05:25:55] <dclarke> heck if I know
[05:25:58] <richlowe> delewis: bits of *FP* are moved to the cores.
[05:26:09] <delewis> richlowe, ah
[05:26:14] <richlowe> delewis: (FST, FLD, FMOV, FABS, FNEG, block load, block store and SIAM, says the niagara tuning manual)
[05:26:14] <dclarke> bits of FP ?
[05:26:23] <dclarke> oh ..
[05:26:26] <richlowe> delewis: also.
[05:26:31] <delewis> I was pretty sure about the VIS deal, that or my memory was failing me, because I remember having to go through the manual and read up on it when I was putting T1 support in MPlayer.
[05:26:36] <dclarke> sounds like specific builds are required
[05:26:37] <richlowe> delewis: > Many of the simple VIS instructions that are not emulated are also moved to the core.
[05:26:42] <richlowe> my sanity returns!
[05:26:48] <delewis> oh
[05:26:59] <delewis> that makes me insane then :-)
[05:27:21] <dclarke> well .. mplayer on a T2000 sounds insane
[05:27:30] <dclarke> also .. its a loud box
[05:27:43] <jamesd> dclarke, well you could do  stream 6 movies on a t2000...
[05:27:43] <delewis> it's an ideal system for encoding
[05:27:44] <dclarke> when running it sounds like it will ingest a small cat
[05:27:52] <jamesd> er that was for delewis
[05:27:53] <delewis> encoding is largely integer-intensive
[05:27:58] <delewis> rather than float-point intensive
[05:28:09] * dclarke surprised
[05:28:13] <dclarke> really ..
[05:28:18] <delewis> yes
[05:28:19] <dclarke> geez .. color me educated
[05:28:40] <jamesd> it has to be fast and easy enough for dvd players to do it  7 years ago...
[05:28:47] <delewis> there's an MP3 encoder implementation that is *purely* integer-based.
[05:28:54] <dclarke> well .. I am running my radiance benchmark on an UltraSparc here and its real slow compared to AMD64
[05:29:07] <delewis> all you're really doing in most cases are DCTs and IDCTs.
[05:29:14] <dclarke> delewis: a pure integer based code bit would fly
[05:29:19] <delewis> yes.
[05:29:41] <dclarke> that reminds me .. I want to try out a video bit on the EFIKA
[05:29:59] <dclarke> someone else did it with realplayer .. I have to give it a try
[05:30:09] <dclarke> helixplayer I mean
[05:30:48] <delewis> the only real downside of encoding is that it's tricky to parallelize it.
[05:31:04] <dclarke> hrmmm .. I just fired up realplayer
[05:31:15] <dclarke> tried to open a sample mpeg and it borked
[05:31:28] <delewis> and often you end up with a somewhat larger video than you normally would because of the inability to further optimize compression (compression depends upon the previous frame and so fourth)
[05:31:29] <dclarke> The following components are required : mpeg
[05:31:35] <dclarke> that makes no sense to me
[05:32:18] <dclarke> one of the things I want to do is run a POVRay animation script and then have the output slew of images encoded into mpeg4
[05:32:23] <dclarke> doesn't look easy to do
[05:32:44] <delewis> with MPlayer/MEncoder, you can do that.
[05:32:59] <dclarke> and something called ffmpeg
[05:33:06] <dclarke> I think that is what its called
[05:33:19] <delewis> dclarke, MPlayer/MEncoder use various FFmpeg libraries.
[05:33:36] <dclarke> ah .. okay
[05:33:37] <delewis> in fact, FFmpeg split off from MPlayer to make the code less MPlayer-dependent, so it could be consumed by other pieces of software.
[05:35:30] <dclarke> gotta go crash .. tired .. eyes blinky here
[05:35:37] <delewis> night, dclarke
[05:35:38] <Tpenta> gnite dennis
[05:35:42] <dclarke> delewis : drop me an email man
[05:35:59] <dclarke> Tpenta : Merry Christmas ( you lurker you ! )
[05:36:06] <Tpenta> just came upstairs
[05:36:20] <delewis> dclarke, it's in your mbox (or should be)
[05:36:25] <dclarke> k
[05:36:42] <dclarke> ah well ... okay .. Merry Christmas y'all
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[05:36:56] <dclarke> I need a Canadian edition of that expression
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[05:37:06] <dclarke> Merry Christmas eh !
[05:37:08] <richlowe> s/y'all/eh?/
[05:37:12] <richlowe> ah, beat me to it.
[05:37:23] * dclarke is Canadian
[05:37:54] <dclarke> my benchmark on US-III is terrible thus far :: rpict: 126293417 rays, 1.71% after 0.507u 0.000s 0.510r hours on osiris
[05:38:12] <dclarke> an AMD Opteron clocks in way faster
[05:38:25] <dclarke> oh well .. I'll leave it run overnight
[05:38:36] <dclarke> as for the T2000 .. I'll power it down
[05:39:30] <dclarke> delewis : got the email !  thanks ..
[05:39:50] <dclarke> I'll catch everyone later .. gotta crash before my head hits my desk here
[05:39:57] * dclarke bonk
[05:40:00] <dclarke> too late :-\
[05:40:13] *** dclarke is now known as dclarke_ZZZzzz
[05:43:46] <Deformative> Do ultra 80s fit in standard cases?
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[05:43:56] <dclarke_ZZZzzz> last item as I wander off .. anyone have access to a fast fast Opteron ?  like 3.0 GHz ?
[05:46:13] * dclarke_ZZZzzz guess not ...
[05:46:18] * dclarke_ZZZzzz wanders away ...
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[05:49:06] <pismo> is there a way to delete zone files? I deleted the actual zone but the files it used won't delete.
[05:59:19] <lloy0076> pismo: "won't" delete?
[05:59:41] <pismo> i use rm -rf but it just asks me if i want to examine the files in the directory
[06:03:30] <pismo> ok i kinda figured it out. I use the rm from /usr/xpg4/bin/rm instead of /usr/bin/rm and then it worked
[06:04:45] <jteo> ?
[06:05:30] <Deformative> Hmm,  /me cannot figure out the  download for the dvd download of solaris express.
[06:05:47] <Deformative> It has 5 downloads for 1 dvd.
[06:06:44] <jbk> it's broken up into 5 segments
[06:06:51] <jbk> concatenate them to form the image
[06:07:02] <Deformative> Woudl k3b be able to do that?
[06:07:40] <jbk> you can use /bin/cat or copy if on windows
[06:08:32] <Deformative> So what would I do on windows?  O.o
[06:08:49] <Deformative> Bleh, whatever I will just download cd.
[06:08:49] <jbk> start->cmd
[06:09:14] <jbk> copy /b file1+file2+file3+file4+file5 image.iso
[06:09:24] <jbk> (uncompress each segment first)
[06:12:31] <elektronkind> I hat eto ask a stupid C question...
[06:12:46] <elektronkind> but what's a 'register ...' ?
[06:12:56] <elektronkind> example: register int foo;
[06:12:59] <jbk> just a compiler hint
[06:13:20] <jbk> says 'might not be a bad idea to use a register to hold this variable'
[06:13:29] <elektronkind> ah
[06:13:41] <elektronkind> simple enough. thanks.
[06:13:46] <jbk> compiler doesn't have to listen though
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[06:14:57] <Deformative> http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/solaris-express/get.jsp
[06:15:06] <Deformative> This si the one I was told to get,  right?
[06:19:32] <Tpenta> i believe that ansi c deprecated the us eof register quite some time ago
[06:20:05] <elektronkind> Tpenta: heh. that's probably why I had to ask about them
[06:20:24] <Tpenta> :-D
[06:21:23] <elektronkind> to give you an idea of what I'm working on, I'm knee deep in openafs driver code where any function not written/modified before recent is declared k&r style.
[06:21:52] <elektronkind> in fact, I just came across one such old-style declaration that have a solaris 10 ifdef around it
[06:21:55] <Tpenta> uuh
[06:22:56] <elektronkind> http://www.openafs.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/openafs/src/afs/SOLARIS/osi_vfsops.c?rev=1.19&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
[06:23:01] <elektronkind> there, have a laugh
[06:23:13] <jteo> :)
[06:23:57] <elektronkind> oh, wrong file
[06:24:12] <elektronkind> osi_vfsops.c is relatively sane
[06:24:25] <elektronkind> http://www.openafs.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/openafs/src/afs/SOLARIS/osi_vnodeops.c?rev=1.29&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
[06:24:33] <elektronkind> vnodeops, however... heh.
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[08:01:23] <mritun_> hello folks
[08:01:59] <lloy0076> Hi There
[08:02:10] <mritun_> Hi lloy0076
[08:02:18] <mritun_> sup ?
[08:02:57] <lloy0076> Not much.
[08:03:04] <mritun_> :)
[08:03:07] <mritun_> looks so
[08:03:08] <lloy0076> I'm at a friends place playing games on Windows
[08:03:09] <lloy0076> lol
[08:03:24] <mritun_> haunting #opensolaris on christmas eve ;)
[08:03:31] <lloy0076> It's a bit tragic eh?
[08:03:44] <mritun_> yeah...
[08:03:51] <lloy0076> To me, honestly, it's just another day in the 265 1/4 day year
[08:04:09] <lloy0076> The only reason why it isn't is because my mother is still alive.
[08:04:14] <mritun_> well, even I can't make such a statement
[08:04:20] <lloy0076> omg
[08:04:27] <lloy0076> 365 1/4 day year
[08:04:36] * lloy0076 kicks self - type right you moron
[08:04:41] <mritun_> eh
[08:04:52] <mritun_> which game ?
[08:05:01] <lloy0076> Zuma deluxe or something.
[08:05:08] <lloy0076> One shoots balls at other balls and stuff.
[08:05:15] <mritun_> haha
[08:05:36] <mritun_> I don't have anything worthy of playing right now
[08:05:47] <lloy0076> heh
[08:05:48] <mritun_> bored to the bone :-/
[08:05:53] <lloy0076> You can play: rm -rf /*
[08:06:06] <lloy0076> Try it as different users - sometimes the recovery is more difficult than others.
[08:06:21] <mritun_> phone
[08:07:58] <kleppari> http://www.hypertony.co.uk/lemmings/
[08:08:04] <kleppari> up for some nostalgy? :P
[08:08:59] <lloy0076> lemmings
[08:09:02] <lloy0076> I never got into that game
[08:09:11] <lloy0076> DHTML lemmings. OMG
[08:10:13] <mritun_> back
[08:10:24] <mritun_> uh
[08:10:49] <mritun_> for nostalgia I have some NES games and znes here ;)
[08:11:06] <mritun_> that takes care of nostalgia pretty well
[08:12:41] <kleppari> it needs some grunt to run, though
[08:12:41] <kleppari> my 1600MHz Pentium M barely does it :P
[08:12:53] <mritun_> yahoo
[08:12:58] <mritun_> I'm not alone
[08:13:11] <mritun_> 1.6 Pentium M here too, matey
[08:16:17] <kleppari> (if (or (= lisp practical) (= lisp common)) (monkeys-fly-out 'my-ass) (life-as-normal))
[08:16:21] <kleppari> I don't know what is sadder: the fact that you wrote it, or the fact that I understand what you wrote.
[08:16:24] <kleppari> heheh
[08:16:26] <kleppari> (from slashdot)
[08:18:00] <delewis> fun, so much for online filesystem expansion in Linux under LVM.
[08:18:03] <delewis> such a joke compared to ZFS.
[08:18:14] <kleppari> delewis: oh?  care to venture?
[08:18:40] <onbot> commit by yt160523:  PSARC/2006/384 SATA AHCI HBA Driver; 6261241 AHCI driver is needed for ICH6 and SATA native mode; 6418168 AHCI driver is needed for VIA vt8251 and SATA native mode
[08:18:57] <delewis> kleppari, with ext2/ext3 you have to unmount the filesystem, run a command, and then re-mount the filesystem. If you happen to have a patched kernel with the ext2 online patch, you don't have to do this, but hardly no vendor is shipping a kernel with this patch.
[08:19:16] <delewis> with XFS, JFS, and ReiserFS, you don't have to unmount the filesystem, but you still have to run a silly command.
[08:19:31] <mritun_> hmm
[08:19:31] <delewis> of course, not many vendors support XFS, JFS, or ReiserFS, either.
[08:20:05] <mritun_> but judging by comments by lusers and ladmins, people are quite happy with mediocrity
[08:20:15] <delewis> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/extendlv.html
[08:20:22] <delewis> mritun_, I wouldn't even call it that.
[08:20:57] <delewis> it's a joke, if anything.
[08:21:02] <mritun_> well, then the recent post on /. on ZFS in OSX leopard rumour, it seems like that
[08:21:13] <mritun_> people want something, and like to stick with it
[08:21:27] <mritun_> no one wants to move anything they don't know about
[08:21:30] <delewis> I can't imagine trying to run an Oracle database on this nonsense
[08:21:40] <delewis> and all the sudden needing to expand the volume for say, a new tablespace or something.
[08:21:41] * mritun_ looking at kleppari 's LISP comment too
[08:22:02] <delewis> "Boss, we've got to shut <arbitrary filesystem> down to re-mount these filesystems"
[08:22:14] <mritun_> delewis: yeah, but people have been running Oracle fine till now, right ?
[08:22:41] <mritun_> the "planned downtime" shit etc
[08:22:49] <lloy0076> Linux has its shortcomings but at least they're slowly fixed.
[08:22:52] <delewis> mritun_, apparently so, but I wonder how many of them are using software volume management, like LVM, over say, something hardware-based from IBM and EMC.
[08:23:05] <mritun_> lloy0076: not particularly so
[08:23:08] <lloy0076> And if you get really, really upset by it you can fix it youseflf.
[08:23:19] <delewis> lloy0076, right.
[08:23:23] <lloy0076> Try building Windows from source, if you can get it.
[08:23:26] <mritun_> thats one of the reasons, IMHO, companies like IBM, HP rally around linux
[08:23:40] <mritun_> mediocrity means business oppurtunity
[08:23:43] <lloy0076> With Windows I can ONLY complain to Microsoft.
[08:23:56] <delewis> lloy0076, you'll find that Windows doesn't concern a lot of us in here.
[08:23:56] <mritun_> it has shitty LVM, so HP, veritras and EMC get to sell stuff
[08:23:58] <lloy0076> With Linux I can complain to: Sun, IBM, HP, RedHat, SuSE (Microsft)
[08:24:21] <kleppari> the linux vfs is a joke
[08:24:26] <delewis> I have zero problems with Windows? Why? I run it where it should be run -- on my x86 peecee.
[08:24:28] <mritun_> mediocre product creates a hell of an environment for commercial entities
[08:24:29] <delewis> and I'm quite satisfied.
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[08:24:53] <delewis> kleppari, yes
[08:24:56] <kleppari> lloy0076: look at the vfs source in linux, do you feel like digging into that?
[08:25:00] <lloy0076> mritun_: I'd prefer to have to deal with a mediocre Linux than a Windows.
[08:25:09] <delewis> keep in mind this LVM was ported by IBM. It is modeled around the AIX LVM, so it should be fairly decent.
[08:25:14] <mritun_> lloy0076: the comparison isn't windows
[08:25:19] <lloy0076> Ok.
[08:25:24] <delewis> I have a feeling that online volume re-sizing is limited by the Linux VFS layer.
[08:25:26] <kleppari> windows plainly pisses me off, so I don't use it.  I disregard it completely.  :)
[08:25:31] <mritun_> compare it with something in its league
[08:25:38] <mritun_> eg solaris, *BSD etc
[08:25:47] <kleppari> delewis: it most definately is.  ext3 is hardly the issue here
[08:25:48] <delewis> lloy0076, in the realm of "real computing" Linux still leaves a lot to be desired, IMO.
[08:26:02] <lloy0076> delewis: Indeed.
[08:26:07] <kleppari> or the lvm...
[08:26:10] <mritun_> yeps
[08:26:11] <kleppari> it's the vfs that sucks
[08:26:15] <delewis> and a lot if is from flawed design methodology.
[08:26:22] <mritun_> and thats where players like RH, IBM and HP get in
[08:26:26] <lloy0076> delewis: Whilst I can't quite put my gut feelings into words yet, Solaris does *seem* more stable and better.
[08:26:32] <delewis> does seem?
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[08:26:44] <lloy0076> delewis: I'm taking a scientifically doubtful point of view.
[08:26:46] <kleppari> design?  that would imply that at one point that it was actually designed ;-)
[08:26:50] <mritun_> well, it is
[08:26:51] <delewis> uh, you haven't read the document written by a kernel Linux developer that explains why Linux does not have a stable kernel API have you?
[08:26:52] <lloy0076> delewis: If I weren't I'd say it *is*
[08:27:07] <delewis> http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/stable_api_nonsense.html
[08:27:14] <delewis> read and weep (or laugh and cry)
[08:27:23] <lloy0076> Or do all at once :)
[08:27:56] * mritun_ has already done...
[08:28:26] <mritun_> well, I respect their ideology
[08:28:37] <mritun_> though it may or may not make any engineering sense
[08:28:38] <kleppari> it's quite ridiculus, I use linux where appropriate..  on my x86 peecee... :P
[08:28:43] <delewis> "We don't have a stable kernel API, because we're idiots and lazy. Instead, we use the excuse that we don't have a stable kernel API because we can do rapid development and your drivers can be fixed when shit breaks. Also, because we're lazy and haven't provided you a stable interface, your binary drivers are useless. <Insert argument for binary vs. "free" drivers here>"
[08:29:06] <delewis> that's the gist of the article.
[08:29:19] <mritun_> delewis: come on
[08:29:27] <mritun_> you can't blame them for that
[08:29:48] <mritun_> they haven't even got their release process straight
[08:29:51] <kleppari> mritun_: sure you can, it's not a hobbyist operating system anymore.
[08:30:01] <kleppari> It's supposed to be a production OS.
[08:30:07] <lloy0076> Why couldn't you have a stable kernel API -- assuming that your kernel API isn't endemically crap?
[08:30:08] <mritun_> so lamenting them for such deep issues like driver API would be cruel, at least
[08:30:09] <delewis> mritun_, Linux driver development is basically searching through headers and finding interfaces you hope don't break in the future.
[08:30:19] <delewis> the reason they advocate source drivers is so they fix it when it breaks
[08:30:22] <delewis> and not be embarrassed.
[08:30:42] <kleppari> source drivers should be advocated, but not for these reasons
[08:30:47] <kleppari> you're preaching to the choir, man ;)
[08:30:51] <mritun_> eh, I would talk about those issues once they get their release process fixed
[08:30:54] <lloy0076> delewis: Is that better than: sucked in, you don't know how we screwed you up type development.
[08:31:13] <delewis> lloy0076, something like Solaris has a nice, well publicized set of interfaces to be used.
[08:31:16] <mritun_> no point slapping a man who's already half dead
[08:31:20] <delewis> and you're guaranteed these interfaces will not break
[08:31:31] <delewis> if they break, it's a bug
[08:31:36] <delewis> and you can hang your salesman.
[08:32:06] <lloy0076> Excuse this but...
[08:32:12] * mritun_ thinks it's pointless seeing linux in light of soaris/opensolaris
[08:32:13] <lloy0076> Is OpenSolaris more popular than Linux?
[08:32:18] * lloy0076 ducks for cover BIG TIME
[08:32:25] <mritun_> lloy0076: nope
[08:32:26] <delewis> lloy0076, of course not.
[08:32:32] <delewis> though, one would hope it might be someday.
[08:32:39] * mritun_ does NOT !
[08:32:52] <lloy0076> I think that they both have their places. Linux might take seriously wrong shortcuts but it works.
[08:32:55] <delewis> though, of course, you really need to define the scope and area of "popularity"
[08:33:04] <mritun_> I'd be happy keeping this fine piece of engineering from the rabid crowd
[08:33:20] <delewis> lloy0076, absolutely
[08:33:25] <lloy0076> Solaris, on the other hand, might be far more stable and if you measure the revenue of companies who rely on it, it might come out on top.
[08:33:27] <delewis> Linux is great on embedded devices, for example.
[08:33:34] <mritun_> delewis: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[08:33:35] <delewis> Solaris would be a joke on such hardware.
[08:33:56] <mritun_> great as in McDonald is great with serving fine cuisine !!!
[08:34:07] <lloy0076> I've only used OpenSolaris on the desktop and already I sense intuitively that Solaris is more likely to be more stable and more useful to an enterpirse large deployment than Linux.
[08:34:12] <delewis> mritun_, no, embedded devices are quite important.
[08:34:15] <mritun_> on embedded systems I'd compare anything with something same
[08:34:17] <delewis> and Linux excels in that area.
[08:34:21] <mritun_> in the same league
[08:34:24] <lloy0076> mritun_: What's wrong with a BIG MAC?
[08:34:26] <lloy0076> :P
[08:34:37] <mritun_> delewis: solaris isn't in same league
[08:34:48] <delewis> mritun_, no shit. :-)
[08:34:56] <lloy0076> Oh, crap. I'm in the computer world.
[08:34:57] <mritun_> on embedded systems I'd compare Linux with QNX, or at *least* VxWorks
[08:35:09] <lloy0076> A BIG MAC is likely to be a crappy G5 OS X box.
[08:35:32] <lloy0076> Honestly, Apple just proved that you can make good chips perform REALLY badly on server platforms.
[08:35:45] <mritun_> Linux is a "JOKE" (BIG BOLD LETTERS) on embedded systems
[08:36:02] <mritun_> first time you cross compile your kernel and deal with kprintf()
[08:36:15] <delewis> mritun_, nonsense, I know of a close friend that does embedded systems design. It seems to be fairly decent for such work, from what I've heard.
[08:36:17] <jamesd> it is?  sun  uses linux on its embeded systems...  ppc  ilom modules.
[08:36:19] <mritun_> you'd spend rest of your life in an asylum, I bet !
[08:36:32] <delewis> mritun_, uClinux seems to be popular.
[08:36:35] <mritun_> delewis: does he do any realtime stuff ?
[08:36:42] <mritun_> sure
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[08:36:52] <delewis> as it has enhancements "designed" for embedded devices, like the lack of a VM implementation.
[08:36:56] <mritun_> uClinux is as close to linux as burger is to mcdonald
[08:37:12] <kleppari> embedded does not imply realtime
[08:37:13] <delewis> mritun_, I don't think so. He deals mostly with embedded graphics devices, AFAIK.
[08:37:20] <mritun_> but the share of MMU less CPUs is not the market IMHO
[08:37:37] <mritun_> even shitty routers have SH, SuperH and ARM procs
[08:38:00] <mritun_> less and less people use 8052 based chips anymore
[08:38:20] <mritun_> without MMU, you make *1* mistake and your whole system is toast
[08:38:52] <mritun_> and frankly, chasing an stray pointer in codebase developed by 2-3 teams is a bitch
[08:38:57] <delewis> yes, but you don't have added complexity when doing memory mapped IO.
[08:39:10] <kleppari> lloy0076: is Linux more popular than Windows?
[08:39:14] <lloy0076> You shouldn't be making mistakes in the first place.
[08:39:17] <lloy0076> :P
[08:39:20] <kleppari> lloy0076: popularity has nothing to do with quality
[08:39:23] <lloy0076> kleppari: On the desktop, YES.
[08:39:32] <lloy0076> kleppari: I really doubt you could argue with that.
[08:39:43] <kleppari> ...
[08:39:49] <lloy0076> kleppari: I think that Solaris is more stable than Linux.
[08:40:03] <mritun_> complexity is already there
[08:40:08] * delewis tosses Solaris Internals at lloy0076
[08:40:09] <mritun_> it'd not really an option
[08:40:25] <lloy0076> delewis: Strangely enough, it's about 5CM to the left of me.
[08:40:35] <lloy0076> delewis: Literally. The Physical Book.
[08:40:36] <delewis> you should have read it more closely. :-)
[08:40:51] <mritun_> the end user doesn't want to see his PDA crash when he uses his ToDo notes app
[08:41:06] <lloy0076> delewis: It's the reason I'm *using* Solaris AND that Solaris and sound for me just *work*.
[08:41:20] <lloy0076> I hate configuring sound. With a passion that borders on pathalogical.
[08:41:27] <jamesd> lloy0076, yet they accept it and buy  pda's with WINce  installed.
[08:41:36] <mritun_> oh sure
[08:41:42] <mritun_> CE is a fine platform !!
[08:41:43] <delewis> you keep saying "I think Solaris is more stable", "maybe Solaris is more stable", "I feel Solaris more stable"
[08:42:02] <delewis> if you've read into Solaris Internals enough, you should know that Solaris is absolutely paranoid when it comes to stability.
[08:42:09] <kleppari> CE is actually ok, it has *nothing* in common with Microsofts 'flagship' product..
[08:42:15] <delewis> especially compared to Linux.
[08:42:16] <mritun_> it's memory protected, fully configurable and get the job done (as long as it's soft realtime task)
[08:42:35] <lloy0076> delewis: Because I've not read enough about it to be confident in combatting a Linux fantaic kernel developer....
[08:42:48] <mritun_> CE is *totally* different beast than the desktop offerings
[08:43:11] <mritun_> it's actually a good product and very developer and device maker friendly
[08:43:14] <lloy0076> delewis: I know I can win the fight, but not with the understanding I have now :)
[08:43:29] <mritun_> for $999 you get the whole set, + $0.99/device
[08:43:34] <mritun_> and you're ready to go !!
[08:44:12] <mritun_> lloy0076: no point arguing to a linux kernel dev
[08:44:44] * mritun_ remembers statement by Alan Cox - MultiThreading is for people who can't understand and code state machines
[08:45:10] <kleppari> smp and threading, that's one thing that solaris kicks linux's ass at..
[08:45:11] <mritun_> that was 2002-2003 and linux didn't have any decent MT library... let alone kernel threads
[08:45:33] <mritun_> dunno.. that was the era when even solaris was still getting it right
[08:45:45] <kleppari> mritun_: oh, come on, it had the gnu userspace threading library!
[08:45:48] <mritun_> green threads,  M:N threading and other shit
[08:46:05] <mritun_> kleppari: and have fun with scheduling with that ???
[08:46:21] <kleppari> I was being sarcastic...
[08:46:30] <delewis> Linux schedules with kernel threads nowadays
[08:46:37] <mritun_> userland library is good for prototyping... but for development it sucks
[08:46:44] <mritun_> :D
[08:47:09] * mritun_ is in rant mode today :-/
[08:47:28] <lloy0076> From what I can tell, from my cursory reading of Solaris Internals and the Linux (2.6) Kernel book from O'Reilly, Solaris seems to take multiple cpus into account more.
[08:47:34] <lloy0076> i.e. the solaris kernel is more flexible.
[08:47:39] <delewis> lloy0076, of course
[08:47:40] <kleppari> it is, alot.
[08:47:46] <delewis> Solaris has far more advanced locking primitives
[08:47:52] <delewis> and the utmost care is taken of where to place those locks
[08:48:08] * mritun_ remembers when all linux kernel did was spinlocks
[08:48:19] * delewis cringes
[08:48:50] * lloy0076 seriously needs to get an IDENTICAL set of machines to run Solaris and Linux
[08:48:58] <kleppari> lloy0076: dual boot? ;-)
[08:49:01] <mritun_> lloy0076: dual boot :P
[08:49:17] <mritun_> though I doubt you'd like solaris in that setting
[08:49:21] <delewis> the amount of shitty locking in Linux is obvious by the number of race conditions Linux has
[08:49:38] <lloy0076> I can dual boot.
[08:49:44] <lloy0076> I'm only using 100Gib of a 320Gib disk.
[08:49:51] <lloy0076> But I'd like to see them side by side.
[08:49:58] <mritun_> the problem wit dual boot is that we tend to stay with OS that works out of the box
[08:50:03] <lloy0076> And control them in tests by a third machine.
[08:50:18] * mritun_ once had QNX on his machine
[08:50:46] <kleppari> me too, qnx is nice
[08:50:47] <mritun_> strict discipline resulted in several months straight in QNX :D
[08:51:08] <lloy0076> After which you had a straight jacket?
[08:51:08] <mritun_> those 3 years were very nice and productive
[08:51:21] <mritun_> :D
[08:51:31] <mritun_> no, I made QNX fit for my needs
[08:51:38] <mritun_> ported all stuff I needed ;)
[08:51:55] <kleppari> do you call that productive? :)
[08:52:00] <kleppari> having to port everything?
[08:52:14] <lloy0076> kleppari: He's the master porter. It only takes him a second.
[08:52:16] <lloy0076> :P
[08:52:17] <mritun_> well... as a student anything else would have been boozing all day and night
[08:52:22] <mritun_> so in that regard - YES !
[08:52:25] <mritun_> :P
[08:52:42] <kleppari> well, I have to be up in two hours, christmas is coming
[08:52:45] <kleppari> night night
[08:52:55] <mritun_> Merry christmas dude
[08:52:56] <kleppari> oh, and merry christmas
[08:52:59] <mritun_> have fune :)
[08:53:04] <mritun_> fun ;)
[08:53:05] <lloy0076> omg
[08:53:09] <lloy0076> Just 2 hours?
[08:53:20] <kleppari> lloy0076: well, it's 07:53 here..
[08:53:24] <mritun_> some place due far east ?
[08:53:27] <kleppari> all shops close at noon
[08:53:35] <kleppari> I have to shop a few presents
[08:53:42] <mritun_> still !!!
[08:53:47] <mritun_> lazy !!
[08:53:53] <kleppari> lazy?
[08:54:18] <kleppari> ah, you mean shopping at last minute?
[08:54:25] <kleppari> I'm not lazy, I just don't care.. ;-)
[08:54:53] <mritun_> :d
[08:55:01] <lloy0076> Know the feeling.
[08:55:12] <mritun_> heh
[08:55:15] <lloy0076> I've bought my mother a prepaid mobile sim.
[08:55:17] <lloy0076> And a phone.
[08:55:23] <mritun_> o_O
[08:55:24] <lloy0076> So she can talk to me more.
[08:55:29] * lloy0076 have no idea what I was thinking
[08:55:44] <mritun_> preparing to getting coals in your stockings, eh ?
[08:56:52] <lloy0076> I want code in my stocking.
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[08:57:09] <mritun_> hmm, code code ad code
[08:57:10] <mritun_> *sigh*
[08:57:13] <lloy0076> It  needs to implement credit card validation and integration with our credit card provider service thingo.
[09:01:06] <mritun_> hmm
[09:01:17] <mritun_> ok mates.. I need to push off for a bit
[09:01:22] <mritun_> bbl
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[09:43:04] <bougie> hello :)
[09:58:45] <zzz6> hello ;-)
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[10:33:03] <Fish> hello
[10:33:34] <Error_404> hola
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[11:29:20] <GoodKarma> :)
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[12:20:00] <mritun_> re
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[12:24:24] <Gr|ffous> Wow, what a difference a fresh install of opensolaris makes, this thing is flying!
[12:24:35] * Gr|ffous makes a note to self, don't LU too many times! :)
[12:25:58] <Error_404> I've still not figgured out why my machine won't boot
[12:32:27] <Gr|ffous> Mine was in a loop restarting X, it was finally time to start again :)
[12:33:05] <Gr|ffous> The installer has improved since my first install too (snv_33), which is a good sign. Still a LONG way to go, but I see there is a project already underway on that front :)
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[13:38:58] <Gr|ffous> Hi all, I have some java process running at startup, chewing away at 50% cpu. It's ppid is 1, so it's a smf started service, the trouble is... I have no idea how to work out which one it is. How would I do this
[13:40:22] <Stric> pargs -a <thatpid>   and see what java thingies it's running
[13:42:04] <Gr|ffous> ah, thanks
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[13:44:08] <GoodKarma> hi Stric
[13:44:09] <Stric> that could give a hint at least.. but I'm looking for a real solution to the same problem.. ;)
[13:44:16] <Stric> hello karma
[13:44:40] <Stric> GoodKarma: We got some (very little) snow this morning.. but just about all of it melted away :/
[13:45:01] <Gr|ffous> well, I'm heading to bed
[13:45:06] <Gr|ffous> merry Xmas and all that to all
[13:45:09] <GoodKarma> lucky you...that's better than...yes, you guess it - NOTHING
[13:45:28] <GoodKarma> thanks, Gr|ffous the same for you
[13:45:39] <Gr|ffous> heh, snow... I was cooking going for my run today. I wish there was snow here :)
[13:46:18] <GoodKarma> heh
[13:46:19] <GoodKarma> :)
[13:47:09] <Stric> http://stric.se/tmp/xmas2006.jpg  :/
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[13:49:15] * Stric leaves for the afternoon.. merry xmas to you..
[13:50:38] <Gr|ffous> final thought for the night, has anyone published a list of what all the service management facility services, actually do? I'd love to cull this list of active services down, but I've been bitten before on this
[13:51:04] <delewis> Gr|ffous: netservices limited
[13:52:14] <Gr|ffous> I've already done that one :)
[13:52:35] <Gr|ffous> # svcs  | grep -c online
[13:52:36] <Gr|ffous> 70
[13:52:50] <Gr|ffous> that's still rather on the high side for an ex-gentooer like me :)
[13:53:26] * delewis shrugs
[13:53:29] <delewis> I prefer my systems to be usable
[13:53:32] <delewis> rather than "minimal"
[13:54:16] <Gr|ffous> well sure, I don't want to cripple my PC. That said, I use JDS, do I really need cde-calendar-manager running?
[13:54:36] <delewis> netservices limited should've disabled that, I think.
[13:55:17] <Gr|ffous> I definitely ran that command, I remember because it restarted dt-login (I was warned though...heh)
[13:56:33] <Gr|ffous> ... I still seem to have a very large number of services listening, maybe it didn't work
[13:56:39] <Gr|ffous> I'll try again in the AM
[13:58:16] <GoodKarma> you too, Stric :)
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[14:34:29] <Saltsa> is it possible to remove disk form zfs pool?
[14:34:38] <Saltsa> is is it planned feature to zfs?
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[14:37:59] <Teltariat> 4/exit
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[14:50:16] <Tpenta> merry christmas all (00:49 on xmas day in Oz)
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[14:53:08] <pikapika> hello
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[15:01:41] <jteo> Tpenta: merry xmas. :)
[15:02:20] <Posixzombie> I see in the kernel log many messages saying:
[15:02:22] <Posixzombie> WARNING: px1: spurious interrupt from ino 0x4
[15:02:26] <Posixzombie> uata-0#0
[15:02:29] <Posixzombie> on a T2000
[15:02:41] <Posixzombie> I have a bad DVD
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[15:02:51] <Posixzombie> could this cause any problems ?
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[15:25:00] <quasi> Posixzombie: has it had its firmware patched up?
[15:27:31] <Posixzombie> quasi, I did not patched firmaware ; I don't know if somebody else did (we are not the first to use this T2000)
[15:27:54] <Posixzombie> I am trying to boot after disconnecting the DVD cable
[15:28:29] <Posixzombie> and look into the log to see whetere this spurious interrupt message appers
[15:28:34] <Posixzombie> s/appers/appears
[15:32:20] <quasi> would be worth looking for firmware patches
[15:39:26] <Posixzombie> where and how ? is there some link ?
[15:40:47] <quasi> sunsolve should have something - let me see what I can find
[15:41:12] <quasi> http://sunsolve.sun.com/pub-cgi/show.pl?target=sunalert_patches#Sun_Fire_T2000_Server
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[15:42:22] <quasi> could be related to this sunalert - http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/document.do?assetkey=1-26-102582-1
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[15:45:07] <edwardocallaghan> Marry Christmas everyone
[15:47:45] <delewis> does Raid-Z have grow support, yet?
[15:48:06] <jteo> delewis: nope.
[15:48:11] <delewis> :-(
[15:48:35] <delewis> I guess I'll do 0+1 then.
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[15:48:45] <Posixzombie> quasi, if I will disable the uata driver (I don't need it) can it help ?
[15:48:58] <Posixzombie> quasi, because when trying to disconnect the DVD cable
[15:49:20] <Posixzombie> I could not boot the T2000! it said it does not find boot device !!!
[15:49:45] <quasi> Posixzombie: see the suggested fixes in the sunalert
[15:51:19] <Posixzombie> quasi, is there some command with which I can know which patches are installed on my machine >?
[15:53:36] <quasi> showrev -p
[15:56:19] <Posixzombie> quasi, thnks ;
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[15:57:15] <Posixzombie> quasi, last qeustion: is it not possible to disconnect the DVD and boot ? I tried it and it says it does not detect a boot device
[16:01:37] <quasi> uhm, you can get the obp to tell you what bootdevice it has
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[16:07:51] <Posixzombie> what do you mean ? how ? I am booting from a disk ; there is nothing in the dvd drive
[16:08:20] <quasi> right, so maybe there's no os on the disk?
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[16:12:51] <Posixzombie> quasi, I am workng all the time with this hard disk and rebooting the machine from it
[16:14:57] <quasi> mmmkay
[16:15:59] <lasseoe> maybe it tries to boot from dvd first then disk
[16:16:08] <lasseoe> boot-device=cdrom disk
[16:19:26] <Posixzombie> can I change it somehow ? so that it will try only from disk?
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[16:26:47] <lasseoe> setenv boot-device disk
[16:26:56] <lasseoe> in OBP of course
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[16:29:03] <quasi> and removing the dvd drive might mess up the drive numbering
[16:29:19] <lasseoe> uhm, it should be on it's own controller
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[16:30:27] <_syphilis_> anyone using the sun newisys ipmi drivers?  i keep getting this in dmesg: Dec 23 03:31:29 zedler.knams.wikimedia.org NWS_POCI: [ID 646656 daemon.info] /usr/bin/netstat -r 2>&1 output format wrong
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[16:31:18] <quasi> ah, right - I haven't had much time to play with the t2k lately
[16:32:34] <lasseoe> syphilis: hilarious fqdn :)
[16:32:42] <_syphilis_> lasseoe: ?
[16:34:36] <_syphilis_> i thought zedler was a boring name.  but the people who gave us that server insisted it be named that ;-)
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[16:50:16] <lasseoe> syphilis: no your own
[16:52:25] <_syphilis_> oh. heh
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[16:58:16] <Fish> good bye
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[17:01:37] <Saltsa> hmh, performing ufs vs. zfs test on the same machine: ufs is almost twice as fast as zfs in some tests. :/
[17:02:22] <Auralis> you want to give zfs the whole disk
[17:02:33] <jamesd> run 2 or more copies of a benchmark at the same time.... and watch zfs do better.
[17:02:58] <Saltsa> Yes, the benchmark software is bonnie++ without any specific parametres
[17:04:11] <GoodKarma> hum
[17:05:20] <Saltsa> (and the machine is running in vmware, with virtual disks)
[17:05:42] <quasi> Saltsa: sounds odd
[17:05:57] <jamesd> oh.. then don't expect good results...  hitting  disks harder just find limitations in vmware not zfs.
[17:05:58] <quasi> Saltsa: have you tried filebench?
[17:06:11] <Saltsa> quasi: nope.
[17:07:29] <timeless>  ,m #maemo so does anyone here actaully have a 770 + gmail?
[17:09:07] <_syphilis_> ufs is faster than zfs in some cases but i wouldn't trust vmware results
[17:09:15] <_syphilis_> although of course they are relevant if you run inside vmware
[17:09:30] <_syphilis_> but the only useful benchmark is your real application
[17:09:53] <_syphilis_> (bonnie is not exactly a real-world benchmark)
[17:10:29] <jamesd> i think i get about 5-6MB/s on vmware   and the raw hardware is capable of doign 60-65MB/s
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[17:11:20] <_syphilis_> i think the ESX stuff has a better way of handling hardware access from the vm
[17:11:26] <_syphilis_> probably why it costs so much ;-)
[17:11:29] <jamesd> yes, but its not free...
[17:13:33] <jamesd> and you have to have high end hardware to run esx anyway, it doesn't support  sata drives, and even sas drives are newly supported.
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[17:22:53] <jteo> mmm xmas.
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[17:28:48] <Saltsa> oh, just read: man xmas
[17:31:34] <pogma> No manual entry for xmas
[17:32:18] <Saltsa> :(
[17:35:13] <jamesd> http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/man-cgi?holidays+4
[17:36:56] <nach1> noone tried to use ndis and an intel3945 ABG right? :)
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[17:37:11] <jamesd> not i
[17:38:11] <nachox> hmm, frkit wants me to reboot, brb
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[17:59:46] <jteo> wb dclarke.
[17:59:54] <dclarke> good morning
[18:00:05] <dclarke> I have to check email and then run out to get last presents
[18:00:10] <dclarke> just a few little things
[18:00:39] <dclarke> in true male fashion .. I leave things to the last minute
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[18:01:36] <jamesd> dclarke, you were just hoping a for a nice blizzard so you can take the jeep out and  have an adventure and get pressents at the same time.
[18:01:45] <nachox> done, now, the onlything left to investigate about is sound and wireless, the rest of the hardware in this laptop work or i dont care about :P
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[18:07:45] <nachox> and it seems like there are some people working in the wireless driver for the card i have, i guess it's wait and see now (or mail and pray)
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[18:56:16] <timeless> hrm, i think disney is showing peter pan songs in finnish
[18:56:29] <timeless> oops, wrong window
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[19:17:43] <Saltsa> if i want to run solaris as generic shell, nat-router and file server in home environment, should i install solaris 10, solaris express community express, solaris express or opensolaris?
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[19:23:16] <_syphilis_> i recommend SX:CR so you get the latest ZFS bits
[19:23:39] <_syphilis_> as long as you're willing to upgrade fairly frequently (live upgrade/jumpstart)
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[20:18:41] <sickness> i'm back
[20:18:54] <jamesd> oh no our sickness is back
[20:20:28] <sickness> lol
[20:22:37] <Yamaraj> After endlessly trying to configure SXCR releases on my ThinkPad for better performance and WiFi support, I've finally settled with the VMware solution.
[20:22:44] <Yamaraj> Best of both Worlds.
[20:25:05] <Yamaraj> And, better than a dual-boot config.
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[21:53:43] <sickness> anyone knows of a way to strip DRM from crappy wmv files downloaded from p2p?
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[21:54:08] <Yamaraj> What a novel idea! :D
[21:54:49] <whaq> heh
[21:55:54] <sickness> ?
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[22:01:47] <kimc> strip
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[22:41:28] <dclarke> I think its Christmas in Australia
[22:41:45] <dclarke> Merry Christmas !
[22:42:18] <jamesd> but its not a white christmas unless you count white sand.
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[22:50:59] <dclarke> no snow .. at all http://www.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/city/pages/on-75_metric_e.html
[22:51:02] <dclarke> that sucks
[22:51:10] <dclarke> the global warming thing .. sucks
[22:51:37] <dclarke> gotta go .. back in a day or two
[22:51:55] <trygvis> ta ta
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