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[00:11:46] <springfield> hi all, slightly OT... how standard is getopt on the unices?
[00:15:15] <jmcp> it's in POSIX.2, XPG4, SUS, SUSv2, SUSv3
[00:15:22] <jmcp> according to getopt(3c)
[00:15:34] <springfield> jmcp: ah, thanks
[00:15:45] <jmcp> yw
[00:15:48] <quasi> not to be confused with gnu getopt
[00:18:08] <jamesd>  getopt will not be supported in the next major release.  For
[00:18:08] <jamesd>      this  release  a  conversion tool has been provided, namely,
[00:18:08] <jamesd>      getoptcvt.  For  more  information,   see   getopts(1)   and
[00:18:08] <jamesd>      getoptcvt(1).
[00:18:21] <jamesd> does this mean solaris  6.0  or  soalris 11
[00:18:36] <jmcp> SunOS 6
[00:18:47] <darkcmd> what's wrong with getopt?
[00:18:50] <springfield> I guess I'll distribute getopt.c in my project just to be safe
[00:19:09] <jmcp> Solaris 11 is a "minor" release - the kernel's "uname -r" output shows 5.xx
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[00:20:47] <richlowe> the unlikelyhood of another major release makes you wonder why said warning exists.
[00:21:05] <darkcmd> richlowe, why is that?
[00:21:38] <quasi> richlowe: at the speed of api changes in solaris, it is probably good to give people at least 10 years warning ;)
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[00:32:32] <edwardocallaghan> Hi guys
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[00:33:10] <edwardocallaghan> I got Solaris 10 all setup on that Ultra 10 box :)
[00:33:45] <_william_> gn
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[00:38:27] <ShadowHntr> edwardocallaghan: congratulations - what'd you have to do
[00:39:21] <jamesd> ShadowHntr, patience is a virtue on that box.
[00:39:38] <ShadowHntr> jamesd: as is on an Ultra 5.
[00:39:58] <edwardocallaghan> Yes indeed
[00:40:08] <jamesd> u5 and u10 are the same mother board so i consider them basicly the same.
[00:40:29] <edwardocallaghan> Well the problems where that we had to use a win2k (hair ball) as the terminal
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[00:41:09] <edwardocallaghan> It was full of spyware ect...
[00:41:22] <edwardocallaghan> And I was teaching Solaris to some one
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[00:41:41] <edwardocallaghan> They wanted a website and I told them I can help
[00:41:49] *** maverickbna is now known as ShadowHntr
[00:41:56] <edwardocallaghan> I told them they can buy a Ultra 10 cheap on ebay
[00:42:04] <edwardocallaghan> So they asked me to get one
[00:42:08] <edwardocallaghan> So I did
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[00:42:52] 
[00:43:05] <ShadowHntr> damn. not a bad price.
[00:43:05] <ShadowHntr> :)
[00:43:12] <edwardocallaghan> Its got two 1GHz Ultra's and 2GB of RAM
[00:43:27] <edwardocallaghan> and two 73GB SCSI 10k disks
[00:45:00] <eddiep> not directly scsi, scsi OVER fc-al
[00:45:18] <steleman> that's a nice box
[00:45:40] <edwardocallaghan> I look forward to it
[00:45:43] <eddiep> congrats!
[00:45:52] <edwardocallaghan> Thanks :)
[00:45:58] <steleman> the only drawback is when it boots up the fan noise reminds me of an ICBM launch :-)
[00:46:08] <eddiep> wrong
[00:46:19] <eddiep> it will slow  down after boot
[00:46:20] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: when you say "scsi over fc-al" what exactly do you mean?
[00:46:23] <richlowe> not "When it boots", "Whenever picld isn't running"
[00:46:31] <richlowe> which is why it slows after boot.
[00:46:34] <richlowe> picld starts.
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[00:46:41] <richlowe> (it's also why smf is awesome, picld starts *sooner*)
[00:46:42] <richlowe> ;)
[00:46:51] <eddiep> jmcp, scsi protocol over fibre channel medium
[00:47:07] <edwardocallaghan> jmcp: I did not say that
[00:47:23] <eddiep> richlowe correct: picld was it
[00:47:29] <eddiep> thnx
[00:47:42] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: sorry, I misread. it was eddiep
[00:47:55] <jmcp> eddiep: so, what do you mean by that?
[00:48:21] * steleman wonders whom to believe: eddiep or my lying ears
[00:48:35] <eddiep> it had been decided by sunw back then in 1999 to treat fc-al as scsi internally
[00:48:55] <eddiep> probe-scsi-all will also list fcal drives
[00:49:23] <eddiep> and the protocol appears to be derived from scsi.org
[00:49:26] <jmcp> eddiep: perhaps you've heard of the FCP standard, which is what Sun implements. It provides encapsulation of scsi packets within FC frames
[00:49:41] <eddiep> that's it
[00:50:36] <richlowe> steleman: they come up like a hurricane, they calm down once picld is running.
[00:50:46] <richlowe> steleman: if they *aren't* calm, check your temps and whether picld is running? :)
[00:50:56] * jamesd thinks sun has only made about 4 sparc workstations worth owning the rest are not worth the price, u2,  u60,  blade 1000, blade 2000.
[00:51:03] <edwardocallaghan> Oh they sound good too ?!
[00:51:04] <steleman> richlowe: yes they eventually slow down. however, when it boots they are extremely loud.
[00:51:08] <edwardocallaghan> Then I can't wait
[00:51:11] <eddiep> U80 ?
[00:51:30] <jmcp> eddiep: have you seen the inside of one?
[00:51:31] <eddiep> btw, sb1000 == sb2000 so you still have 4 !
[00:51:33] <jamesd> over priced...   a blade 1000 usually are cheaper these days.
[00:51:47] <eddiep> jmcp, sur
[00:51:49] <eddiep> e
[00:51:55] <eddiep> why?
[00:52:12] <edwardocallaghan> They are RISC chips they are going to be expensive
[00:52:19] <jmcp> let's start talking about the memory mezzanine concept, and then wander downhill shall we?
[00:52:34] <eddiep> ok
[00:52:37] <edwardocallaghan> If more people buy quality then they will get cheaper
[00:53:04] <richlowe> hah.
[00:53:22] <richlowe> if that's the case, you all need to go by as many u45's as it takes to bring the price down into my range ;)
[00:53:26] <richlowe> s/by/buy/
[00:54:05] <jamesd> give it about 6 years and we will all own them if we want one.
[00:54:38] <eddiep> jmcp, do you still believe the myth, that sb1000 != sb2000 ?
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[00:55:30] <jmcp> eddiep: I don't give a rats either way
[00:56:15] <eddiep> I'm not *believing* it, but I have proven it publically.
[00:56:40] * steleman wishes Xrender + all the other goodies were available on the Blade **00's
[00:56:41] <jmcp> I really don't care, and I'm not interested
[00:56:51] <eddiep> aha
[00:56:54] <Doc> SB1000 != SB2000
[00:57:04] <eddiep> Doc ??
[00:57:11] <eddiep> ha ha
[00:57:22] <eddiep> funny
[00:57:57] * jamesd wants a blade 8000 as a desktop... well i would only want 2 or 3 blades in it.
[00:58:11] <Doc> jamesd: believe me, once you've heard one, you wont
[00:58:15] <steleman> jamesd: http://www.acclinet.com/
[00:58:26] <steleman> they have good prices. and no, i am not working for them on commission :-)
[00:58:40] <jamesd> i would put it in my basement, and  run extra long video cables and keyboard cables.
[00:59:15] <Doc> did i mention there's no video cards available for them?
[00:59:22] <eddiep> Doc, see this and study the matter properly again:  http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.sun.hardware/browse_thread/thread/c4e90cce22d28df9/18285c80db316451?lnk=st&q=bochnig+blade+see&rnum=1&hl=de#18285c80db316451
[00:59:33] <steleman> Doc: yeah you can still get XVR-1000's
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[00:59:42] <eddiep> Hi jmcp, hello jamesd
[01:00:16] <jamesd> okay.. off to make dinner... bbiab
[01:00:25] <Doc> an XVR-1000 in an SB8000? somehow i think not
[01:00:41] <Doc> eddiep: they are different
[01:00:44] <steleman> ohh you're talking about the SB8000 ? sorry i was still on the Blade 2000's
[01:01:02] <eddiep> Doc, yeh: Different label, difefrent color
[01:01:10] * steleman being extremely happy with his blade 2000's
[01:01:13] <Doc> call up Sun and say "i'd like to put a SB1000 on two years maintenance"
[01:01:17] *** eddiep is now known as bochnig
[01:01:27] <Doc> then call them up and say "i'd like to put a SB2000 on two years maintenace"
[01:01:34] <Doc> see if you get the same answer
[01:01:35] <bochnig> me too, very happy with mine either
[01:02:18] <bochnig> Doc, good joke. ok.
[01:02:25] <bochnig> But technically the same.
[01:02:43] <bochnig> You can use exactly the same cpus both in sb1k and sb2k
[01:02:46] <steleman> ever since i demonstrated the SB2000 booting up to my nextdoor neighbor, my UberGeek Status has gone up exponentially in my building
[01:03:03] <bochnig> Only thing you cannot do is mixing cu and non-cu parts
[01:04:18] <Doc> right. so i suppose a U10 and a U5 are the same thing too?
[01:04:25] <bochnig> yep
[01:04:53] <bochnig> cooling is different
[01:05:07] <bochnig> so u5 and u10 are more different than sb1k and sb2k
[01:05:34] <Doc> cooling. airflow.  now you're beginning to get it
[01:05:40] <bochnig> but u5 will also take 440MHz and 1gb (if you get it in) and upa card (if you urge it in)
[01:05:58] <richlowe> because nothing makes support happier than showing them the dremel you used to upgrade a machine...
[01:06:01] <bochnig> I'm beginning to get it?
[01:06:12] <bochnig> sb1k == sb2k
[01:06:30] <silk> if they were the same, why would they have 2 parts?
[01:06:35] * steleman thinks the Blade1000 needs a firmware upgrade to support CPU's at over 900Mhz speed
[01:06:36] <jmcp> bochnig: if the cooling and/or airflow is different, they cannot be the same machine
[01:06:37] <bochnig> see FRU part numbers !!!
[01:06:44] <jmcp> silk: physics, duh!
[01:07:06] <bochnig> jmcp, what do you mean?
[01:07:09] <silk> stupid me
[01:07:21] * jmcp looks for his cluebat
[01:07:23] <jmcp> silk: :)
[01:07:26] <bochnig> sb1k and sb2k have exactly tye same cooling / chassis etc.
[01:07:38] <bochnig> U5 vs. U10 only share the board
[01:07:54] <Doc> they do, do they?
[01:07:58] <edwardocallaghan> If the PROM is a different version and the cooling is a different version with a revision of the MB so maybe a review of componces like voltage regulators improved ect... and a different case . How can they be the same?!
[01:08:00] <jmcp> bochnig: ok, so you can-mostly- put the same parts in a SF4810 as a SF4800 ... but are they the same machine?
[01:08:27] <bochnig> edwardocallaghan, READ my article first pls.
[01:08:34] <edwardocallaghan> I did
[01:08:56] <bochnig> i.e.: THE VERY SAME system board revisions are listed as sb2k FRU just as for the 1k
[01:08:57] <jamesd> i guess the e15k and e25k  are the same machine since you can upgrade from the 15k to the 25k over a lunch break if you listen to sun marketing
[01:09:16] <bochnig> :)
[01:09:23] <edwardocallaghan> So there two workstations are more compatible , what's bad about that?
[01:09:31] <Doc> no, you cant upgrade a 15k to a 25k
[01:09:51] <Doc> strangely enough, the main difference between the two is... well.. airflow and cooling
[01:10:13] <edwardocallaghan> The board number does not mean it is the same board in every way
[01:10:22] <edwardocallaghan> It means its back compatible
[01:10:35] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: are you sure on your claim there?
[01:10:40] <bochnig> edwardocallaghan, it became a problem, when the sunsolve system handbook's cpu module compatibility matrix got falsified!
[01:10:49] <bochnig> but lets forget that
[01:11:02] <bochnig> I do not want to complain.
[01:11:12] <bochnig> It's a thing of the past.
[01:11:32] <bochnig> But technically very interesting, when you have a sb1k
[01:11:42] <edwardocallaghan> Yes quite, also that's a PROM upgrade problem
[01:11:45] <bochnig> and would like to use the x7310a  :-)
[01:12:00] <bochnig> edwardocallaghan	 NO NO NO
[01:12:05] <bochnig> SAme prom.
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[01:13:42] <bochnig> jamesd, did you test mBE back then?
[01:13:54] <jamesd> mbe?
[01:14:08] <bochnig> the dvd for x64
[01:14:25] <bochnig> http://www.martux.org/RELEASES/x86_and_x64/DVD/
[01:14:52] <bochnig> jamesd, sorry that i didn't come back to you for feedback much earlier
[01:15:03] <bochnig> _NO_ time for Solaris
[01:15:24] * jmcp wanders off to do some work for a change
[01:16:02] <bochnig> the whole world loves me, that's a good starting point
[01:17:21] <jamesd> bochnig, i dont remember, but then again, i didn't see why you are wasting your time, the best you can do is just be one of 4 opensolaris distros on the x86...  sparc is where its needed simply for usparcI supper
[01:17:44] <jamesd> er supper=support
[01:18:14] <bochnig> As I unfortunately had to quit CSW, I will no longer ship /opt/csw
[01:18:57] <bochnig> But to begin with circa 800 MRTX (my new pkg label) packages.
[01:19:37] <bochnig> jamsd, tahnks for your opinion. Ok, you meand I shall concentrate on sparc?
[01:19:58] <edwardocallaghan>  bochnig: Is that your distro ?
[01:20:02] <bochnig> Unfortunately cant I start working on it before late February
[01:20:07] <bochnig> y
[01:20:17] <jamesd> yes there is a place for sparc martux, it has a unique need for it something that sun isn't providing and neither is anyone else.
[01:20:19] <edwardocallaghan> Wondering
[01:20:52] <bochnig> OK, thank you jamesd :)
[01:21:31] <bochnig> A pity, how it went down at csw. I *also* made a couple of mistakes.
[01:22:01] <bochnig> Wrong *handling*, even if I still think I had been right in the matter.
[01:23:18] <edwardocallaghan> I wish people would make more drivers for x86 Solaris until I can get my head around how to do it myself
[01:23:23] <edwardocallaghan> *As I plan too
[01:23:34] <bochnig> damn: I need to get 2 exercises finished for Monday and one for Wednesday and Thursday.
[01:23:45] <bochnig> jamesd, jmcp: nice to meet you again
[01:24:02] <bochnig> see you next year, HAPPY HOLIDAYS to you all
[01:24:31] <jmcp> bochnig: have you been drinking the walmart "we discriminate against all religious festivals equally" koolaid?
[01:24:32] <jmcp> :)
[01:24:56] <bochnig> ncfms
[01:24:58] <bochnig> :)
[01:25:14] <bochnig> till then, make it good
[01:25:17] <bochnig> .
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[01:26:44] <edwardocallaghan> Guys I am going to get some shut eye
[01:27:00] <edwardocallaghan> Thanks for your company have a good night
[01:27:01] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: soft!
[01:27:10] <jmcp> this party's only just getting started .....
[01:27:15] <astinus> lol
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[01:28:33] * steleman wonders if relying on disk i/o as a means of threads concurrency control is ever a wise conscious decision
[01:29:13] <edwardocallaghan> lol party on, night
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[01:34:21] <jmcp> Doc: did you see the email from Canon re the competition winners?
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[01:57:58] <Doc> jmcp: no
[01:58:01] <Doc> did i win?
[01:58:13] <jmcp> nah
[01:58:15] <Doc> that was probably the worst example of a photo competition i've ever seen
[01:58:37] <jmcp> Doc: this bloke did http://www.canon.com.au/images/eos400d/edm14/judges_choice.jpg
[01:58:38] * jmcp shrugs
[01:59:14] <Doc> ok.. that's somewhat worthy
[01:59:28] <Doc> the weekly ones were the jokes. some of these were like just photos of ppl standing there
[01:59:32] <jmcp> yeah
[01:59:44] <Doc> i liked a few of my yesterdays errors - http://www.docbert.org/tmp/1712/
[02:00:00] <Doc> err
[02:00:03] <Doc> yesterdays efforts
[02:00:21] <jmcp> I like the last one - "oi! Oo you lookin' at!?"
[02:00:23] <jmcp> :)
[02:01:36] <Doc> first one is better if i crop it different too
[02:02:48] * jmcp nods
[02:04:35] <jmcp> Doc: do you have noise-cancelling headphones?
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[02:13:23] <jmcp> hi Tpenta
[02:13:42] <minerale> Hi, a couple questions: is opensolaris developed bsd style? -- all in one repository, on linux style -- all packages mixedd and matched between the latest
[02:14:40] <Tpenta> james
[02:15:21] <ShadowHntr> minerale: don't quote me on this, but i believe it's up to the distro developers.
[02:15:34] <ShadowHntr> not sure about a vanilla ON install.
[02:16:21] <minerale> shadowhntr: is opensolaris mostly the kernel -- such as linux? or the whole package? such as debian / freebsd
[02:16:40] <jmcp> minerale: Solaris and OpenSolaris are made up of various Consolidations.
[02:16:42] * dwc- scratches his head
[02:16:43] <ShadowHntr> minerale: OpenSolaris is mostly the SunOS kernel.
[02:16:43] <aliquis> minerale: Opensolaris is everything which have been released open I think
[02:16:51] <ShadowHntr> but not exclusive to
[02:17:02] <aliquis> minerale: Opensolaris Software Express: Community Express is the free distribution of it
[02:17:18] <jmcp> the ON consolidation is the kernel + userland stuff like /usr/bin, but -gnome, -staroffice, -X11, -SUNWspro compilers
[02:17:45] <aliquis> minerale: And as long as you run the same specific version as someone else I guess all the stuff included with the OS will be the same versions as everyone else running the same version of the OS. So as BSD, until you install additional packages, just like BSD aswell.
[02:18:13] <jmcp> minerale: have a look at the FAQs here https://www.opensolaris.org/os/about/faq/
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[02:26:38] <minerale> jmcp: thanks -- out of school for several weeks now, looking for something to do and I've heard lots of hype about opensolaris -- at school (gatech) especially there is a very heavy bias toward sun
[02:26:49] <jmcp> :)
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[02:28:05] <gisburn> jamesd: ping!
[02:28:12] <jamesd> pong
[02:28:39] <gisburn> jamesd: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/ksh93-integration/downloads/2006-12-14/
[02:28:56] <gisburn> jamesd: Do you see anything which needs changes/adjustments/fixes ?
[02:29:45] <jamesd> 42 warnings.. in the html,  but the links seem to work
[02:30:27] <gisburn> jamesd: I doubt the site engine which runs opensolaris.org cares about anything from W3C
[02:30:56] <jamesd> me either, but  dennis would be the first to raise that issue
[02:31:15] <gisburn> Whoever invented the TML junk should be hung and shot and then fed to komodo dragons.
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[02:33:25] <aliquis> jmcp or jamesd: Did anyone of you work for sun? =P
[02:34:01] <gisburn> jmcp: does
[02:34:21] <jamesd> jmcp, does currently.. i have never worked for sun.. but i am totally receptive to offers to change that
[02:35:11] <aliquis> Ah, that explains why your support is free ;)
[02:35:21] <jmcp> aliquis: I do
[02:35:43] <jmcp> aliquis: I'm a kernel software engineer, focused mainly in the storage space
[02:35:46] <jamesd> gisburn, i installed it on my  blade 1500.. seems to work.. no explosions so far.
[02:35:51] <aliquis> k
[02:36:08] <gisburn> jamesd: did you install /etc/ksh.kshrc, too ?
[02:36:19] <jamesd> no i just untarred it
[02:36:25] <gisburn> ;-(
[02:36:31] <jamesd> where is the ksh.kshrc file
[02:36:41] <gisburn> etc/ksh.kshrc
[02:36:51] <gisburn> did you set LD_LIBRARY:_PATH ?
[02:37:01] <gisburn> to the untarred localtion ?
[02:37:01] <jamesd> i guess i did then.. since i untarred it in  /
[02:37:08] <gisburn> er
[02:37:13] <gisburn> ah
[02:37:15] <gisburn> ok
[02:37:16] <gisburn> :-)
[02:37:26] <gisburn> if you start ksh93 - what editor mode do you get ?
[02:38:07] <jamesd> well  pressing  esc does nothing i assume that means its emacs...
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[02:38:28] <gisburn> jamesd: does TAB filename completion work for you ?
[02:39:09] <dwc-> hm, when I run ksh on debian, it seems to default emacs, gmacs, and vi off ...
[02:39:37] <dwc-> then again, the man pages talk about pfksh too, which don't exist
[02:39:42] <dwc-> (in debian)
[02:39:44] <jamesd> gisburn, yes but its output is a bit funky... compared to bash
[02:39:58] <gisburn> dwc-: that is because POSIX says no editor mode must be enabled at startup.
[02:40:06] <gisburn> dwc-: and ksh93 conforms to POSIX
[02:40:07] <jamesd> l<tab> produces  80) /bin/libpng12-config
[02:40:07] <jamesd> 81) /bin/libgnutls-config
[02:40:07] <jamesd> 82) /bin/libgnutls-extra-config
[02:40:08] <jamesd> # ls
[02:40:11] <dwc-> oh, neat
[02:40:31] <gisburn> dwc-: we cheat via using /etc/ksh.kshrc to set one (gmacs)
[02:40:42] <dwc-> this ksh also seems slightly broken
[02:40:47] <gisburn> jamesd: TABTAB<number>TAB selects the number
[02:40:48] <dwc-> $ ls V
[02:40:51] <dwc-> (tab)
[02:40:52] <dwc-> $ ls 'Volume Shadow Copy Service SDK 7.2/'
[02:40:56] <dwc-> (tab)
[02:40:58] <dwc-> $ ls 'Volume Shadow Copy Service SDK '7.2/*'
[02:41:03] <dwc-> (tab)
[02:41:06] <gisburn> dwc-: which ksh ? Debian ?
[02:41:08] <dwc-> $ ls 'Volume Shadow Copy Service SDK '7.2/*'
[02:41:13] <dwc-> (with a tab at the end)
[02:41:20] <dwc-> yea
[02:41:46] <gisburn> dwc-: umpf... I nearly got a heart attack
[02:42:22] <dwc-> so no editor mode is basically .... the original /bin/sh "editor mode"
[02:42:43] <richlowe> "What the tty does for you"
[02:42:50] <dwc-> well, I don't have ksh93 installed on any solaris machines
[02:42:58] <gisburn> dwc-: well, POSIX people did not want to side with either the "vi" or "emacs" fraction.
[02:43:00] <dwc-> except that zone I guess
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[02:43:05] <dwc-> the one you were using
[02:43:27] <dwc-> fair enough, I wouldn't want to get into that battle either :)
[02:43:27] <gisburn> dwc-: oh... freel free to rm -rf the zone... :-)
[02:43:50] <gisburn> dwc-: I totally forgot to say "thank you" for the help... :-)
[02:43:53] <gisburn> er
[02:43:55] <gisburn> ;-(
[02:44:19] <dwc-> well, the machine needs some hardware work, so I'll remember to do that... sometime
[02:44:28] <dwc-> and you're welcome
[02:44:29] <gisburn> or better: :-) for the help and ;-( for not remembering
[02:44:51] <dwc-> I'm sorry it had to die before you were done with it though
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[02:45:24] <gisburn> dwc-: ?!
[02:45:41] <gisburn> jamesd: any suggestions what could be done better with ksh93 ?
[02:46:05] <jamesd> gisburn, release it as a package instead of a tarball... so it can be removed later
[02:46:18] <dwc-> for i in tar tvf ; do ...
[02:46:36] <gisburn> dwc-: that will kill libcmd.so
[02:46:57] <dwc-> oh, the tar overwrote files, not just added new files
[02:47:02] <dwc-> nm then
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[02:47:35] <gisburn> yeah, tghe stinking libcmd ursurpator on Solaris
[02:47:55] <richlowe> which was already adjusted for you...
[02:48:03] <richlowe> and, iirc, pre-exists you, too. :)
[02:48:19] <gisburn> jamesd: I was more thinking about ksh93 itself, not how to get rid of it...
[02:48:44] <gisburn> richlowe: I know... but until some version libcmd was just a static helper library.
[02:48:53] <gisburn> s/version/Solaris version/
[02:49:09] <jamesd> gisburn, i'm a devoted bash fan, so i really don't know what more i could do besides just limited testing.
[02:49:49] <gisburn> jamesd: try $ ksh93 /usr/demo/ksh/fun/gnaw.ksh
[02:49:55] <dwc-> gisburn: it could rm /bin/bash ; ln -s /bin/ksk93 /bin/bash
[02:49:58] <gisburn> $ <---- prompt
[02:51:06] <jamesd> gisburn, too much delay .. the opening screen seems slow on my 1.0ghz blade 1500
[02:51:18] <richlowe> find out if it'll run luupgrade without issue :)
[02:51:23] <richlowe> that could be entertaining.
[02:51:38] <gisburn> jamesd: which terminal do you use ?
[02:52:00] <jamesd> putty over a gigabit link
[02:52:06] <gisburn> erm
[02:52:16] <gisburn> jamesd: what does echo $TERM # say ?
[02:52:36] <jamesd> # echo $TERM
[02:52:37] <jamesd> xterm
[02:52:37] <jamesd> #
[02:52:48] <gisburn> jamesd: mhhh
[02:52:54] <gisburn> jamesd: is it playable for you ?
[02:54:04] <jamesd> what are the direction commands again
[02:54:23] <gisburn> i j k m
[02:56:48] <jamesd> i is right   and m is left on my system...
[02:57:07] <richlowe> turn your hand sideways? :)
[02:57:39] <gisburn> erm
[02:57:53] <gisburn> i up
[02:57:55] <gisburn> m down
[02:58:02] <gisburn> j left
[02:58:07] <gisburn> k right
[02:58:19] <gisburn> this is done via ascii parsing
[02:58:26] <dwc-> ijkm?
[02:58:30] <jamesd> not in putty its not.. not sure what is going on.. but i guess the TERM code is fubar
[02:58:50] <dwc-> why not hjkl?
[02:59:00] <richlowe> or wasd
[02:59:08] <richlowe> or, here's a thought, the arrows. :)
[02:59:22] <dwc-> but what if my terminal doesn't support arrow keys !?!?
[02:59:29] <gisburn> richlowe: the arows are supported for dtterm and term
[02:59:34] <gisburn> er
[02:59:35] <gisburn> xterm
[03:01:06] <gisburn> eri network device is 100baseT, right ?
[03:01:15] <Doc> yes
[03:01:41] <jmcp> Doc: what brand/model are they?
[03:02:04] <Doc> on-board on a few things like the V880
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[03:02:49] * jmcp switches context
[03:03:25] <jamesd> gisburn, okay either i have something fubar in my setup but i get the same keyboard movements on both putty and remote X  with it inside dtterm
[03:03:50] <gisburn> jamesd: what does $LANG say ?
[03:06:18] <jamesd> C
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[03:08:13] <gisburn> weired
[03:08:16] <gisburn> it works here.
[03:09:07] <jamesd> no clue.... but its not like i'm going to play pacman much anyway.. i think i have pacman delux on my psx anyway.
[03:11:49] * gisburn tries to reproduce the probem...
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[03:55:19] <gisburn> is anyone with moderation access to opensolaris-announce awake ?
[03:55:26] <gisburn> gman: ping
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[03:59:47] <gisburn> is anyone with moderation access to opensolaris-announce at opensolaris dot org awake ?
[03:59:55] * gisburn looks at jamesd
[04:00:56] <jamesd> sorry they won't even give me the keys to the trashbin.. much less access to any moderantion prevlidges
[04:01:17] <gisburn> jmcp: ping!
[04:01:40] * gisburn wonders if stevel could help
[04:01:43] <richlowe> I doubt jmcp could do it, either.
[04:01:46] <gisburn> ... but stevel is not here
[04:01:48] <gisburn> nor gman
[04:01:57] <gisburn> hey, where are all the sun people ?
[04:02:02] <gisburn> crap
[04:02:04] <richlowe> enjoying their weekend?
[04:02:10] <richlowe> on vacation over the holidays?
[04:02:18] <jamesd> on vacation decorading christmas trees and all that jazz
[04:02:23] <gisburn> richlowe: wasn't "the weekend" laid-off ?
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[04:02:40] <gisburn> (ok, bad joke)
[04:03:55] <g4lt-U60> gisburn, no, just people who EXPECTED weekends
[04:04:17] * steleman follows this conversation with much interest :-)
[04:04:39] <gisburn> g4lt-U60: it's 4:04h AM
[04:04:42] <gisburn> here
[04:05:03] <gisburn> at least I am working.
[04:05:21] <gisburn> why can't the remaining world do the same ? ;-(
[04:06:27] * gisburn sends the email anyway
[04:07:52] <richlowe> steleman: exception that proves, and all that ;)
[04:08:23] * steleman innocently bats eyelashes
[04:08:33] <gisburn> Your mail to 'opensolaris-announce' with the subject
[04:08:34] <gisburn>    ksh93-integration 2006-12-14 test binaries available for download
[04:08:36] <gisburn> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
[04:08:37] <gisburn> grrrr
[04:08:49] <steleman> gisburn: have you thought about emailing Scott McNealy ?
[04:08:54] * steleman ducks
[04:09:01] <richlowe> There maybe a moderator in the UK.
[04:09:01] <gisburn> steleman: email ?
[04:09:10] <richlowe> so that'd cut your wait by about 5 hours.
[04:10:10] <richlowe> in fact, there's a moderator awake *someplace*
[04:10:21] <richlowe> since I appear to have just got 45 messages to -discuss dumped on me at once.
[04:11:06] <steleman> gisburn: your email just came through
[04:12:08] <gisburn> steleman: not in http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-announce/2006-December/date.html yet
[04:13:01] <steleman> ok i don't really know which mailing list sent it to me
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[04:13:22] <richlowe> you'll have got it via -discuss.
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[04:13:41] <steleman> yah that's very likely
[04:15:41] <gisburn> Wow... a Elite3D card can be.... fast.
[04:16:15] <jamesd> and they often cost more than the box that they are plugged into
[04:16:18] <gisburn> assuming some things like textures are off
[04:16:35] <gisburn> jamesd: no, I got a blade1000 with a Edite3D card.
[04:16:46] <gisburn> I am modifying trackballs for it right now.
[04:17:01] <gisburn> Quake2 already runs, but the performace is sub-optimal.
[04:18:22] <aliquis> http://ezquake.sourceforge.net/ !
[04:18:48] <gisburn> grrrr... Elite3D has no fog distance.
[04:18:49] <gisburn> shit
[04:19:19] <Doc> ok, this is interesting...
[04:19:20] <Doc> #telnet 1.1.1.53
[04:19:20] <Doc> Trying 1.1.1.53...
[04:19:26] <Doc> #telnet 1.1.1.053
[04:19:27] <Doc> Trying 1.1.1.43...
[04:19:44] <Doc> spot the problem...
[04:19:50] <jbk> octal?
[04:20:21] <Doc> seems so
[04:20:49] <g4lt-U60> not seems, is.  ANY number with a preceeding zero is shell expanded to octal
[04:21:00] <richlowe> Uh.
[04:21:03] <Doc> that's just warped
[04:21:06] <g4lt-U60> I think it's in POSIX that way
[04:21:19] <g4lt-U60> just like 0x54 would be hex
[04:21:24] <Wez> no, 1.1.1.053 means 1.1.1.43
[04:21:55] <jbk> can you telnet 1.1.1.0x0f ?
[04:21:56] <Doc> WARNING: IP: Hardware address '00:03:ba:8f:c6:3d' trying to be our address 010.015.007.053!
[04:22:03] <Doc> except in that message, it's not
[04:22:04] <Wez> in other words, leading zeros in ipv4 addresses are interpreted as octal
[04:22:05] <richlowe> with everything else aside, that's got to utterly suck if your shell has FP math.
[04:22:17] <Wez> nothing to do with the shell
[04:22:32] <Wez> it's a feature of inet_aton and friends
[04:22:41] <richlowe> Wez: that was a direct response to g4lt
[04:22:54] <Doc> so it looks like the WARNING message above is broken
[04:22:55] <g4lt-U60> jbk yes, > telnet 10.0.0.0x0f
[04:22:56] <g4lt-U60> Trying 10.0.0.15...
[04:23:01] <Doc> it shouldnt print leading 0's
[04:23:23] <Doc> hi ho, hi ho, it's off to bugster we go...
[04:23:23] <jbk> wow..
[04:23:49] <g4lt-U60> doc don't bother, it's expected behavior
[04:24:02] <Doc> d4lt: did you read what i said?
[04:24:18] <Doc> s/d/g/
[04:24:35] <g4lt-U60> right, that it shouldn't print leading zeroes, but THAT IS the expected behavior, since 054 != 54
[04:24:46] <Doc> exactly
[04:24:55] <Doc> which is why i'm raising a bug against it printing leading zeros
[04:25:53] <g4lt-U60> the only way it's be a bug is is your parser mistakenly put in the leading zeor, otherwise the leading zero is a significant part and must be preserved until the parse to octal
[04:26:13] <richlowe> wha?
[04:26:55] <Doc> g4lt: but the IP address above is actually 10.15.7.53, but it's printing 010.015.007.053!
[04:27:08] <Doc> which, it would appear, is wrong
[04:27:13] <Doc> which is why i'm raising a bug
[04:30:51] <Doc> (although it's very possible i will lose interest before i work out that category to put it in)
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[04:36:01] <yongsun> guys, how a gtk/gnome based application could disable CDE session manager to save itself?
[04:36:40] <jamesd> given that gnome knows nothing about CDE i would think not.
[04:38:22] <richlowe> if my memory is accurate, the session management stuff is part of ICCCM, so that shouldn't matter.
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[04:40:51] <yongsun> richlowe, I tried to handle WM_SAVE_YOURSELF, and then use XSetCommand to set the args to NULL, but it works with my testing motif app, but gtk application failed
[04:40:52] <gisburn> hurray
[04:41:00] <gisburn> I can crash Xsun badly.
[04:42:03] <yongsun> I really don't know how CDE session manager works, seems that if you do nothing with WM_SAVE_YOURSELF, you will be saved by default, sigh :(
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[04:45:23] <richlowe> All I can think of would be clearing SM_CLIENT, but that seems like an entirely wrong thing to do.
[04:45:42] <richlowe> SM_CLIENT_ID, rather.
[04:46:30] <yongsun> richlowe, actually, in CDE, there is no SM_CLIENT_ID property in the top-level window, :(
[04:46:53] <yongsun> there is a WM_CLIENT_LEADER property attached in the top-level window,
[04:47:07] <gisburn> yongsun: well, Solaris's CDE is based on CDE 1.x, not CDE2.x
[04:48:58] <richlowe> Hm.
[04:49:05] <yongsun> gisburn, the problem is my testing motif app works, but gnome application failed
[04:49:08] <richlowe> I thought WM_CLIENT_LEADER was a Window pointing to (your own) leader.
[04:49:12] <richlowe> and the leader had SM_CLIENT_ID
[04:49:15] <darkcmd> is NFS backward compatible?
[04:49:33] <darkcmd> for example, a NFS 1 or 2 client connecting to a NFS4 server
[04:49:48] <jamesd> darkcmd, solaris will downgrade to 2 or 3 if 4 is not supported
[04:49:49] <yongsun> richlowe, I checked that WM_CLIENT_LEADER has the same id with my top-level window
[04:50:04] <darkcmd> ok
[04:50:58] <richlowe> Hm, I'm out of what few ideas I had.
[04:51:14] <richlowe> (maybe the lack of client id is convincing the session manager you don't know how to manage yourself, and causing it to do it for yoU?)
[04:51:17] <richlowe> s/U/u/
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[04:52:38] <yongsun> richlowe, I don't know :(
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[06:03:39] <johna-> hi...anyone around?
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[06:04:02] <johna-> im an os x/linux guy, but trying to delve into the solaris world
[06:04:10] <johna-> do you guys all run the sun java desktop?
[06:04:18] <johna-> or something else entirely?
[06:05:20] <yongsun> johna-, yes, we run JDS, actually gnome 2.16 on opensolaris
[06:06:00] <yongsun> johna-, certainly, there are people run CDE only ;)
[06:06:17] <johna-> I heard that CDE won't make it into the final version of solaris 11
[06:06:29] <johna-> can you explain to me the relationship between solaris 11 and opensolaris?
[06:06:44] <johna-> is it similar to the fedora/rhel relationship?
[06:09:02] * jmcp looks for the right url ....
[06:09:14] <yongsun> johna-, opensolaris is not a distribution of opensolaris, it's just the community,
[06:09:42] <yongsun> johna-, it already has multiple distributions so far,
[06:10:11] <jmcp> johna-: http://www.whacked.net/2005/06/21/confused-so-was-i/
[06:10:42] <johna-> ah, so the distros each have names
[06:10:50] <jmcp> duh .. of course they do :)
[06:11:03] <johna-> so is  sun going to pull features from these various opensolaris distros and put them in solaris 11?
[06:11:22] <yongsun> jmcp, thanks a lot :)
[06:12:18] <johna-> so they're calling solaris 11 solaris express?
[06:12:35] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Tpenta
[06:13:24] <Tpenta> !seen brendang_
[06:13:25] <Drone> brendang_ is currently online in #opensolaris and last spoke on Thu 14 Dec 2006 07:29 GMT, saying 'Tpenta: yep - I meant to reply straight away, but, er, ..'.
[06:13:41] * Tpenta swears quietly
[06:13:51] <jmcp> yongsun: you're welcome :)
[06:13:58] <jmcp> johna-: not necessarily
[06:14:13] <jmcp> Tpenta: Warne's 2nd ball of the 2nd session ... the Ashes are Australia's once more
[06:14:14] <ddunham> Sort of.  Solaris Express is a recent build of the current development of Solaris.  At the moment, that development is what will become the next version of Solaris.  Folks don't want to use "Solaris 11" as a name in case marketing changes it on them at the last minute.
[06:14:26] <Tpenta> wooot
[06:14:42] <Tpenta> I think, though, that england did an almost miraculous job to make it this far into day 5
[06:14:47] <jmcp> johna-: because Marketing's name changes .... have happened before :|
[06:14:52] <jmcp> Tpenta: agreed
[06:16:09] <johna-> ah..i see
[06:16:18] <johna-> do you guys run solaris as a desktop os?
[06:16:43] <jmcp> yes
[06:16:50] <jmcp> well, I do ... Tpenta does as well
[06:17:08] <jmcp> I flatter myself that I'm hardcore :)
[06:18:17] <johna-> on what sort of hardware?
[06:18:24] <Tpenta> SunOS red 5.11 snv_54 i86pc i386 i86pc
[06:18:53] <jevangelo> ok, i downloaded solaris 8, and it accepted all the information to configure it.... then it tells me to put the solaris 8 install disk in the drive, but its not accepting it
[06:18:53] <jmcp> I've been doing it for years on stuff I've put together myself, from a duron-650 up to my dual-core ultra20 (2.4GHz opteron)
[06:19:46] <johna-> ah
[06:20:05] <johna-> i bought a sun blade 100 a few years ago, just havent used it that much
[06:20:08] <johna-> but sparc is dead
[06:20:12] <johna-> so its basically a paperweight now
[06:20:18] <jmcp> johna-: you're badly wrong
[06:20:41] <jevangelo> im using a sunblade 100
[06:20:46] <jevangelo> sparc rules
[06:21:56] <jevangelo> just havent been able to get solaris installed yet
[06:21:59] <jevangelo> :/
[06:22:13] <jmcp> jevangelo: why aren't you trying to install sol10 or sx instead of 8?
[06:22:21] <richlowe> I'm still trying to figure out why you'd be installing 8.
[06:22:25] <richlowe> ... and apparently so is jmcp.
[06:22:30] <jmcp> yup
[06:22:30] <johna-> i found that solaris 10 runs better in a vmware host than it does on the sun blade 100
[06:22:35] <jevangelo> i ran into trouble with it noticing large disks
[06:22:45] <jmcp> jevangelo: what benefit does solaris 8 give you over solaris 10 or express?
[06:23:02] <jevangelo> the fact that it wont boot a solaris 10 cd....
[06:23:26] <richlowe> sounds more like a bad burn.
[06:23:46] <jevangelo> could
[06:23:47] <jevangelo> be
[06:24:07] <jevangelo> or long overdue for nvram flashing?
[06:24:33] <jmcp> jevangelo: possibly
[06:25:16] <jevangelo> i have the patches... i just havent figured out a way to actually flash it yet
[06:25:29] <jmcp> jevangelo: you could try reading the patch's README
[06:25:40] <jmcp> that's what works for me
[06:26:39] <jevangelo> i run into different problems everytime i attempt to install an os
[06:28:49] <ddunham> Can you provide more details?  What output do you get after you start booting?
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[06:31:46] <jevangelo> solaris 8 accepted all my info about dns servers and network questions.... then it was time for it to install the os, and it said i needed the solaris 8 install cd
[06:31:55] <jevangelo> which was in the cddrive already
[06:33:10] <jevangelo> now it says giving up     /usr/openwin/bin/xinit:  connection refused (errno 146)
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[06:34:14] <ddunham> Is this the installation CD or CD 1 of 2?
[06:34:27] <jevangelo> its the installation cd
[06:34:52] <lloy0076> I've setup my OpenSolaris box at work as per the instructions at Ben Blockwood's blog, Part II. It works at home however at work, it absolutely REFUSES to recognise any name server.
[06:34:58] <ddunham> Solaris 8 is quirky with DNS during install.  Recommend selecting 'none' and putting in DNS later.
[06:35:03] <lloy0076> dig @nameserverip somewhere.com DOES work.
[06:35:10] <lloy0076> When I use DHCP, it does work.
[06:35:15] <ddunham> Also, recommend using CD 1/2 rather than the installation CD.
[06:35:44] <jevangelo> ddunham: I'm not even getting to that point yet
[06:35:47] <jevangelo> anymore
[06:36:12] <jevangelo> oh, you were talking to lloy0076?
[06:36:18] <ddunham> Uhh, then what point are you getting to?
[06:36:45] <jevangelo> i "stop a" to stop it from booting to my ubuntu install, then type boot cdrom
[06:36:53] <lloy0076> Hang on, I'm using OpenSolaris ON 53 ... with a BFU upgrade.
[06:37:07] <jevangelo> it starts, but i guess when it tries to start X, it gives me that error
[06:37:33] <ddunham> Do that with CD 1/2.  Don't use the installation CD.
[06:42:28] <jevangelo> ok
[06:42:35] <jevangelo> it's giving me the error again
[06:42:47] <lloy0076> aaargh
[06:43:03] <lloy0076> Now, it's decidedto *not* resolv at all. Randomly.
[06:43:13] <ddunham> Does it ask any questions before erroring?
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[06:43:28] <jevangelo> it asks me the language and locale
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[06:43:41] <jevangelo> then tries to start openwindows
[06:44:13] <ddunham> You might try 'boot cdrom - install w'
[06:44:20] <ddunham> It should stay in text mode.
[06:45:23] <ddunham> Spaces on both sides of the '-'
[06:45:59] <ddunham> Of course I can't think of any reason you'd get an xinit error off the CD like that.
[06:47:49] <jevangelo> very odd
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[06:49:02] <jevangelo> i think my cdrom is failing
[06:49:17] <jevangelo> *cdrom drive
[06:49:34] <ddunham> Possible.  That's not an uncommon failure.
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[06:50:11] <jevangelo> and that would explain the earlier error i had about it not thinking the install cd was in the drive
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[06:57:07] <lloy0076> I think I found my problem.
[06:57:26] <ddunham> config or a bug?
[06:57:31] <lloy0076> It seems that the packet filter died in  a 'block random thing' state. So I turned it off.
[06:57:44] <lloy0076> ddunham: Not sure - I'll have to diagnose later. I'm meant to be working.
[06:57:45] <lloy0076> :(
[07:02:01] <johna-> im curious what kind of hardware setups you guys have at home
[07:02:36] <Hagge_> shiet
[07:02:48] <Hagge_> my old "webserver" which where running solaris have been down for quite some time
[07:02:49] <lloy0076> I currently have an AMD XP2400+ with 1Gb of RAM, some type of motherboard and 160Gb hard drive. It's getting upgraded to an AMD 64 X2 3800+ with a 250Gb SATAII hard drive and some type of motherboard.
[07:02:56] <Hagge_> because one day it died and i restarted it
[07:03:01] <Hagge_> 30 min later it died again and smelled funny
[07:03:09] <johna-> what os do you run on the amd box?
[07:03:10] <lloy0076> Hagge_: Smelled funny?
[07:03:19] <Hagge_> so now i wanted to give it a try so i put back the hdd and started it, to see if the psu was really dead
[07:03:25] <Hagge_> it wasn't, since it started up
[07:03:26] <lloy0076> johna-: OpenSolaris SXCR 53 with BFUs.
[07:03:36] <johna-> so thats the only computer you have at home?
[07:03:37] <Hagge_> but it still smelled funny, and there where coming flames from the motherboard
[07:03:43] <Hagge_> so i guess it's dead ;)
[07:03:48] <Hagge_> no
[07:03:49] <lloy0076> johna-: I have another one but that has an Evil OS on it.
[07:03:49] <johna-> ha i've never seen a computer with flames
[07:03:58] <johna-> ah i see
[07:04:03] <Hagge_> i can take it out and see if i can get some pictures
[07:04:08] <Hagge_> but i guess no more webserver for me
[07:04:08] <Hagge_> ;)
[07:04:23] <Hagge_> i had it in my storage room, guess it's to dusty and shit
[07:04:23] <Hagge_> ;D
[07:04:29] <johna-> ah
[07:04:40] <johna-> im lusting after a mac pro
[07:04:46] <Hagge_> smells electronics in my appartment now
[07:06:39] <lloy0076> johna-: Mac Pros look good; if I were buying a laptop though, I'd probably go a Centrino M. Cheaper. Not as sleak, not as nice but for me they give me more of what I'd need.
[07:08:44] <Hagge_> seems like it was beneath a capacitor
[07:09:09] <Hagge_> will the next mac pro have regular ddr2 ram instead of fb-dimms?
[07:09:12] <edp> could have been the bottom of the capacitor
[07:09:40] <Hagge_> yeah, think so
[07:09:48] <edp> you can try to just replace the cap and see if it works
[07:10:03] <johna-> i have no idea what the next mac pro will be
[07:10:07] <johna-> im kinda waiting
[07:10:08] <lloy0076> CSI Hagge: Investigator of Computer Scene Infernos!
[07:10:10] <johna-> it came out in august
[07:10:13] <johna-> so they cant wait forever to update it
[07:10:29] <Hagge_> edp: Do you think it's a dust issue only or have something to do with the psu aswell? Can i plug in another motherboard with same psu?
[07:10:45] <edp> the bad cap is on the motherboard, right?
[07:10:58] <Hagge_> yes
[07:11:13] <edp> sometimes the caps just go bad
[07:11:28] <edp> it was probably one of the larger caps by the cpu
[07:11:44] <edp> are any of the others bulged up at the top?  they should be perfectly flat across the top
[07:11:51] <johna-> well bed time
[07:11:52] <johna-> g'night
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[07:12:29] <edp> i'd guess the psu is fine
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[07:18:21] <jevangelo> "not enough memory for graphical installation"
[07:18:42] <ddunham> 8 still?
[07:18:49] <jevangelo> solaris 10
[07:18:54] <ddunham> 128MB?
[07:19:00] <jevangelo> 256
[07:19:04] <jevangelo> it requires  288
[07:19:10] <ddunham> Does it let you continue in text mode?
[07:19:37] <jevangelo> yes
[07:20:07] <ddunham> You should be able to run X after installation.
[07:20:29] <jevangelo> cool
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[07:26:48] <Solarisfan> how can i configure httpd on solaris ?
[07:27:24] <jevangelo> i would love to own a more modern sparc system
[07:27:27] <jmcp> Solarisfan: just like you configure apache on any other OS ... by editing /etc/apache/httpd.conf, then starting the apache / httpd server
[07:27:35] <jevangelo> in the mean time, i should get my hands on more ecc memory
[07:28:02] <Solarisfan> i have add package apache
[07:28:17] <ddunham> Memory helps a lot, espeically if you're running a heavier GUI.
[07:28:46] <Solarisfan> bash-2.05# cat /etc/apache/httpd.conf
[07:28:46] <Solarisfan> cat: cannot open /etc/apache/httpd.conf
[07:28:50] <Solarisfan> should i create one ?
[07:28:53] <ddunham> I actually run twm on my lower-memory machine.  Not much for features, but fast.
[07:29:16] <ddunham> Where did you get the package?
[07:29:20] <jevangelo> yea
[07:29:25] <Solarisfan> ok
[07:29:34] <Solarisfan> how can i start httpd
[07:29:35] <Solarisfan> i mean command
[07:29:46] <ddunham> It may have installed in /usr/local instead of /etc or something.
[07:30:07] <jmcp> Solarisfan: how about you cd to /etc/apache and do an "ls"
[07:30:43] <Solarisfan> bash-2.05# ls
[07:30:43] <Solarisfan> README.Solaris             httpd.conf-example         magic                      srm.conf
[07:30:43] <Solarisfan> access.conf                jserv.conf                 mime.types                 tomcat.conf
[07:30:43] <Solarisfan> httpd-standalone-ipp.conf  jserv.properties           mime.types.new             zone.properties
[07:30:43] <Solarisfan> bash-2.05#
[07:30:59] <jevangelo> rename the example http.conf
[07:31:00] <jmcp> don't flood
[07:31:09] <Solarisfan> oh sorry
[07:31:26] <jevangelo> mv httpd.conf-example http.conf
[07:31:41] <Griff> I'd copy it, personally
[07:31:57] <Solarisfan> actually i m building some thing from source . and it got this option . ./configure --with-httpd=/usr/sbin/httpd
[07:32:11] <Solarisfan> but i dont have any thing like httpd in /usr/sbin
[07:32:54] <Solarisfan> ok did that
[07:33:20] <Solarisfan> where should i find this httpd ?
[07:33:38] <Solarisfan> in which directory it should be in ?
[07:33:59] <jevangelo> etc/init.d?
[07:35:14] <jmcp> no
[07:35:24] <ddunham> Probably in /usr/apache/bin
[07:35:25] <jmcp> try /usr/apache/sbin or /usr/apache2/sbin
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[07:36:19] <Solarisfan> its in /usr/apache/bin/httpd
[07:36:20] <Solarisfan> thx
[07:36:31] <Solarisfan> which command is use to start this service ?
[07:36:39] <Solarisfan> service httpd start
[07:36:44] <Solarisfan> this is linux command
[07:36:50] <Solarisfan> how we do it in solaris?
[07:36:56] <ddunham> Do you have Solaris 10?
[07:37:37] <ddunham> Or an older version?
[07:37:42] * jmcp aways
[07:37:47] <Solarisfan> solaris 9 ?
[07:37:50] <Solarisfan> sorry
[07:37:52] <Solarisfan> solaris 9
[07:38:01] <ddunham> Then there's usually a startup script in /etc/rc3.d
[07:38:19] <ddunham> There's no 'service' command to set it up in Solaris 9.
[07:38:39] <jevangelo> does solaris have an /etc/init.d directory?
[07:38:41] <ddunham> Yes.
[07:38:58] <jevangelo> those are startup scripts though right
[07:39:33] <ddunham> In some sense, yet.  But nothing runs from /etc/init.d directly.
[07:39:40] <ddunham> That's true on Linux as well.
[07:39:50] <jevangelo> right
[07:40:47] <ddunham> The default for Solaris distributed scripts is a hard link for the file in /etc/init.d and in the run level directories.
[07:41:05] <ddunham> Most people doing their own just use symlinks.  Both are fine.
[07:41:17] <razrX> Solarisfan: example: if /usr/apache/bin/httpd resides on your solaris 9 box you can find out from which package it is part of by running: pkgchk -lp /usr/apache/bin/httpd (if it came from a package and not built from source it should state that the httpd binary came from the SUNWapchu package
[07:41:20] <jevangelo> hm
[07:41:30] <dwc-> 'service' foo start|stop on "linux" is equivalent to /etc/init.d/'service' start|stop
[07:41:33] <dwc-> on linux
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[07:42:26] <dwc-> errr whoops
[07:42:30] <dwc-> /etc/init.d/foo start|stop
[07:43:37] <dwc-> in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a shell script wrapper to do just that
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[07:50:19] <Solarisfan> so wats the result
[07:50:32] <Solarisfan> how should i start its service on solaris ?
[07:51:02] <ddunham> There's probably already a startup script in /etc/rc3.d that starts apache if /etc/apache/httpd.conf is present.
[07:51:22] <ddunham> You can run apachectl to start/stop manually.
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[08:01:49] <aliquis> lol, found a dell poweredge 2300 which had 18.2GB 10krpm + 9GB 7200rpm scsi drives in my closet aswell, but only with one PIII, I have no idea if there have been two ;/, and I guess the current one isn't better than my athlon-xp was but maybe more fun ;D
[08:06:33] <jevangelo> haha
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[08:20:24] <asyd> \_o<
[08:26:48] <Griff> I need some help with gnome, whatever the process is that gives you desktop icons, and basic desktop access (even right click), seems to have died and didn't respawn. I tried launching nautilus in a console, but nothing appeared to happen
[08:27:10] <Griff> and by gnome, I of course mean jds under sx-cr 53
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[08:34:36] <gtc> Hi all -- I'm sorry to be dense, but I'm still a bit confused up the best way to update OpenSolaris...
[08:35:07] <gtc> BFU only updates the core OS?
[08:35:22] <Griff> that's right O/N
[08:35:37] <Griff> if you want bfu, you want to do it the hard way
[08:35:55] <Griff> an easier option is to go with the solaris nevada releases, and the use live upgrade between releases
[08:35:57] <gtc> So the ISO is the other option?
[08:36:08] <Griff> or, go for solaris express, and get the monthly updates
[08:36:39] <gtc> Hmmm.  I'm at: SunOS alouette.local 5.11 snv_48 i86pc i386 i86pc
[08:36:57] <Griff> cool, I've just upgraded to 53
[08:37:12] <gtc> Griff: Which way did you go?
[08:37:47] <Griff> I'm using solaris express, community release - the same as you by the sounds of things
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[08:38:33] <gtc> OK, so I grab a Solaris Express ISO and then install it over my current install?
[08:39:22] <Griff> well, several of them unfortunately, but yup - or use live upgrade, which installs + upgrades an alternate boot environment, allowing you to switch between them
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[08:40:52] <gtc> Hmmm.  Alternate boot environment?  Two versions at the same time?
[08:40:58] <Griff> I have 3 :)
[08:41:11] <gtc> That sounds confusing.
[08:41:30] <Griff> basically it just copies your running os, onto another slice, and upgrades that in the background
[08:41:52] <Griff> Then, when you boot, you can choose to boot the newly installed/upgraded slice, or fall back to your working installation
[08:42:15] <gtc> Is there a project to work on easier updates, like *BSD or Linux has?
[08:42:16] <Griff> it's a great idea, it just requires more space, which lets face it - most of us have plenty of these days
[08:42:23] <Griff> I hope so!
[08:42:49] <Griff> There are gnu/solaris projects out there, which use apt for package management
[08:43:11] <gtc> Yes.  I'm still trying to get to grips with Nevada, O/N, Solaris Express, Solaris 10, etc. etc.
[08:44:00] <gtc> I wasn't so impressed with Nexenta.
[08:44:18] <Griff> it's a big change for a linux user. I can barely imagine what it must be like for a windows user
[08:45:02] <gtc> I really like Solaris; it's just hard to update.
[08:45:09] <Griff> yeah, it is
[08:45:43] <Griff> There just simply doesn't seem to be must interest from the solaris Elite in changing the way package management works - most seem to think there is nothing wrong
[08:46:07] <Griff> I agree that rpm and friends can turn into a horror, and I used gentoo for about 2 years
[08:46:08] <gtc> Blastwave is OK, but only had a small subset of stuff.
[08:46:24] <jevangelo> rpm hell
[08:46:32] <gtc> apt-get is better.
[08:47:15] <jevangelo> isn't yum for fedora?
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[08:47:36] <Griff> well, not originally - but I believe it uses it
[08:47:51] <gtc> yum started with Suse?
[08:47:57] <Griff> New question, what in the heck am I meant to use to capture firewire with under solaris?
[08:48:10] <Griff> Yellowdog Update Manager
[08:48:38] <gtc> Ah.
[08:50:14] <alanc-away> gisburn: CR 6505436 Created  Running "mplayer" with OpenGL driver (mplayer -vo gl2) crashes Xsun
[08:50:38] <Griff> heh, neat trick
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[09:01:23] <gisburn> alanc-away: thanks! :-)
[09:02:02] * alanc-away assigns it to the SPARC OpenGL team
[09:02:08] <gisburn> alanc-away: unfortunately there are more ways to crash Xsun via OpenGL
[09:02:39] <alanc-away> file more bugs, and I'll assign them over there
[09:02:55] <gisburn> erm
[09:03:00] <alanc-away> 8-)
[09:03:04] <gisburn> alanc-away: that's not that easy.
[09:03:14] <alanc-away> it is for me
[09:03:21] <gisburn> alanc-away: "turning fog on in Quake2" requires a testcase.
[09:03:22] <alanc-away> 8-P
[09:04:03] <alanc-away> workaround for that one is easy: don't play Quake2
[09:04:04] <gisburn> alanc-away: and the testcase requires baseq2.pak of Quake2 and a modified Quake2 to get into trouble
[09:04:11] <gisburn> grrr
[09:04:26] <gisburn> alanc-away: that is the way how Sun is hiding from my bug reports since years
[09:04:52] <cmihai> gisburn: fog?
[09:04:58] <cmihai> Is that turned on by default?
[09:05:01] <gisburn> Sun's C99 implementataion is another case where the authors should be hung, shot and fed to komodo dragons
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[09:05:08] <gisburn> cmihai: no.
[09:05:24] <cmihai> Oh, ok.
[09:05:25] <edwardocallaghan> Morning Morning
[09:06:22] <cmihai> gisburn: SPARC only?
[09:06:31] <gisburn> cmihai: I just replaced the "explosions"-hack in Quake2 with a correct way which is based on real physics and not on the yellow blob solution Carmack 'often wrong' used.
[09:06:44] <gisburn> cmihai: No, Linux and remote X11/GLX
[09:06:51] <cmihai> Ugh
[09:06:56] <cmihai> Now that would be... unique :)
[09:06:59] <gisburn> cmihai: maybe another problem that Sun's OpenGL hates remote GLX
[09:07:08] <alanc-away> while I'm sure the SPARC OpenGL team would love to be required to play quake as part of their jobs, I can't see their management assigning it a higher priority than fixing the bugs that cause crashes for CAD/CAM programs
[09:07:11] <cmihai> I doubt many people use that kind of a setup in the first place....
[09:07:25] <gisburn> cmihai: which reminds me of the bug that Xinerama+OpenGL+remote X11 crashes the Xserver with the message "not implemented"
[09:07:38] <cmihai> heh
[09:07:56] <gisburn> cmihai: and that happened during the LinuxWorld fair
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[09:08:02] <cmihai> Ouch
[09:08:16] <cmihai> Did you use ssh -X or just plain old X?
[09:08:24] <alanc-away> though we did use dgadoom as a performance benchmark for new SPARC machines when they arrived in our lab for a while
[09:08:25] <gisburn> plain old X
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[09:08:38] <gisburn> cmihai: ssh's X11 forwarding sucks to much CPU
[09:08:41] <alanc-away> haven't done that in a few years though
[09:09:18] <cmihai> gisburn: not if you use -c blowfish :)
[09:09:25] <edwardocallaghan> alanc-away:What SPARC's do you have?
[09:09:42] <gisburn> edwardocallaghan: all machines which can accept gfx cards
[09:10:08] <gisburn> edwardocallaghan: the prolblem is: alanc-away doesn't want to share them with me... ;-/
[09:10:14] * gisburn sobs
[09:10:27] <cmihai> heh
[09:10:32] <gisburn> cmihai: blowfish won't help
[09:10:41] <gisburn> cmihai: it's a latency/buffering issue
[09:10:54] <alanc-away> gisburn: not quite that many - but pretty much all the different workstation models, from the SPARCstation 2 up through the Ultra 45
[09:11:00] <cmihai> Right. But it is less CPU intensive.. I use it for my backups...
[09:11:13] <gisburn> cmihai: ssh doesn't care about XFlush() and passes fixed buffers around.
[09:11:16] <alanc-away> don't remember if we've gotten any Ultra 25's yet
[09:11:58] <alanc-away> gisburn: you're in the wrong country - too much customs paperwork to ship them out of country
[09:12:12] <gisburn> cmihai: which means a XFlush() is sometimes delayed with the buffer collector in ssh
[09:12:27] <edwardocallaghan> No I was just interested to know
[09:12:31] <alanc-away> Ultra 20 M2's are supposed to show up later this week 8->
[09:12:35] <edwardocallaghan> I just woke up
[09:12:43] <gisburn> alanc-away: yea yea, I know, I am in a country which is part of the axis of evil non-war supporters
[09:13:18] <edwardocallaghan> Micro$oft the axis of evil
[09:13:21] <alanc-away> though Germany is less paperwork than China - even shipping stuff to our own labs there is a paperwork nightmare
[09:13:34] <gisburn> maybe we should just fetch our plutonium and throw the nuke on our frog-eating neigbours
[09:13:45] <cmihai> Heh, I wanted to say Aix of evil and I've said.. damn, I've done it again
[09:13:49] <cmihai> Reflex I guess
[09:14:38] <gisburn> anyone voting tha germany should get nukes and nuke france for fun ?
[09:14:45] <gisburn> or belgium ?
[09:14:52] <cmihai> Sounds fun
[09:15:02] <cmihai> But we all know Germans are not a warlike people ;)
[09:15:23] <gisburn> cmihai: we started TWO world wars. and I bet we do the 3rd&&final one, too.
[09:15:32] <cmihai> Oh, that :P
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[09:16:05] <gisburn> cmihai: we have nukes and the eurofighter. the US only has the lame F22/Raptor and nukes
[09:16:20] * gisburn sticks out his tongue
[09:16:25] 
[09:16:26] <gisburn> :-)
[09:16:55] <gisburn> (ok, not funny)
[09:16:59] <edwardocallaghan> This could benefit mankind as it would take down the numbers :p
[09:17:02] <Griff> does anyone know what is happening with firewire on solaris. I want to capture video of a camera, and even google is staring blankly back at me
[09:17:34] <gisburn> edwardocallaghan: yeah, but the evil people surive while the good ones die. not fair. lets kill'them all.
[09:17:37] <gisburn> BABOOOOOM
[09:17:55] <gisburn> 15 salted nukes are enougth
[09:18:02] <cmihai> Salted nukes?
[09:18:06] <cmihai> Is that like salted md5?
[09:18:06] <edwardocallaghan> Bang (I like it, fireworks)
[09:18:06] <gisburn> cmihai: erm
[09:18:22] <gisburn> cmihai: you add kobalt or zink to a nuke and the fallout will be VERY intense
[09:18:32] <cmihai> Yeah yeah yeah 100 years
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[09:18:34] <cmihai> I've seen Dr. Strangelove
[09:18:43] <gisburn> cmihai: we're just lucky that kobalt doesn't grow on trees.
[09:18:59] <cmihai> Kobaltorium-213 :))
[09:19:02] <gisburn> cmihai: otherwise some ididot may have tested that already.
[09:19:14] <gisburn> cmihai: Komodragium-666
[09:20:55] * alanc-away is really going away now - time for sleep
[09:21:05] <cmihai> Well, Russia did blow up a 50 megaton nuke
[09:21:10] <cmihai> Tsar Bomba ;)
[09:21:19] <cmihai> That's MEGA TON
[09:21:26] <gisburn> babOOOOOOOOOOOMMMM
[09:21:28] <gisburn> babOOOOOOOOOOOMMMM
[09:21:30] <gisburn> babOOOOOOOOOOOMMMM
[09:21:31] <gisburn> babOOOOOOOOOOOMMMM
[09:21:50] <cmihai> Little boy (Hiroshima) was 13 kilotons. That's KILO
[09:22:22] <gisburn> yeah, still enougth to produce lots of roasted beef...
[09:22:23] <cmihai> 4000 times more powerfull :)
[09:22:44] <gisburn> (ok, tasteless joke...)
[09:22:49] <gisburn> ketchup missing
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[09:23:37] <edwardocallaghan> What about HP source?
[09:23:49] <cmihai> What about it?
[09:24:03] <gisburn> maybe if someone creates a time machine we should eradicate the creators of the atom bomb from the genetic pool.
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[09:24:30] <cmihai> gisburn: then we'd all die in the Cold War :)
[09:24:40] <gisburn> no
[09:24:47] <gisburn> there would be no cold war
[09:24:54] <cmihai> Well, it won't be so cold :P
[09:25:03] <cmihai>  /methinks flesh eating bacteria :)
[09:25:11] <cmihai> We'd go bio :)
[09:25:23] <gisburn> assuming they terminate hilter, mussolini, stalin and James Dean.
[09:25:28] <Posixzombie> are the man pages  , like that of ddi_copyin() , part of
[09:25:29] <Posixzombie> the source tree ? I tried to find ddi_copyin.9f but could not
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[09:29:37] <edwardocallaghan> No don't think so...?
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[09:30:53] <edwardocallaghan> Any one know how much a T1000 Tape Drive is?
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[09:42:53] <cmihai> edwardocallaghan: T1000 is a T1 system, not a tape drive iirc :P. Ultrium is a tape drive, lol :)
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[09:43:20] <cmihai> About 500$ for a nice ultrium, 400GB (800*GB 2:1 compression), and 100$ for a 400GB (800*) TAPE
[09:43:25] <edwardocallaghan> No its also a tape drive
[09:43:32] <cmihai> That so
[09:43:45] <edwardocallaghan> I'll get the page
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[09:44:00] <cmihai> Colorado bla bla?
[09:44:12] <cmihai> Sounds like crap, get an Ultrium
[09:44:25] <edwardocallaghan> http://www.sun.com/storagetek/tape_storage/tape_drives/t10000/
[09:44:38] <edwardocallaghan> t10000 is a tape drive
[09:44:42] <edwardocallaghan> told you so
[09:44:49] <edwardocallaghan> :p :)
[09:47:06] <cmihai> That's 10000 not 1000.
[09:47:17] <cmihai> So NO, you didn't.
[09:48:14] <edwardocallaghan> I sayed 10000
[09:48:23] <edwardocallaghan> Oh who cares any way
[09:48:30] <cmihai> 10:31 < edwardocallaghan> Any one know how much a T1000 Tape Drive is?
[09:48:33] <edwardocallaghan> +/- a 0
[09:48:34] <cmihai> No you didn't.
[09:48:48] <edwardocallaghan> lol sorry +0 then
[09:48:59] <edwardocallaghan> So how much
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[10:00:53] <edwardocallaghan> See you all in two days
[10:01:12] <edwardocallaghan> Thanks for your lovely company :)
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[10:15:44] <Posixzombie> Any idea from where I can donwload SUNWman package ? couldn't find it in blasrwave.org.
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[10:20:30] <Doc> the SUNW should probably be a hint
[10:27:27] <Posixzombie> Doc, thnks ; but I am quite a newbie in solaris
[10:27:48] <Posixzombie> Doc, what does it hint ? that it is somewhere in SUN ?
[10:29:27] <razrX> Posixzombie: yes, that's the hint
[10:29:48] <razrX> you should have it on your solaris install media (dvd, cd ...)
[10:30:09] <Posixzombie> razrX, can you be kind to tell me where in SUN? I have built opensolaris from source (b54)
[10:30:26] <Posixzombie> so the DVD/CD option  is not relevant
[10:30:59] <razrX> but in order to actually built opensolaris you prolly came from a nevada build like solaris express (community release)
[10:32:13] <Posixzombie> exactly, it was sxcr 50
[10:32:37] <razrX> so, then the question should be: how did you install snv_50 ?
[10:32:44] <Posixzombie> razrX, but I want man pages for b54 ; probably there were some changes
[10:32:49] <razrX> from install media like dvd
[10:32:53] <razrX> ah
[10:33:00] <Posixzombie> razrX, of course , from DVD
[10:33:11] <razrX> for that question i don't know the answer ,sorry
[10:33:30] <Posixzombie> razrX, thnks anyway
[10:33:45] <Posixzombie> os there anybody that  knows ?
[10:33:51] <razrX> it's been quite a while for me since i've BFU'ed to a opensolaris build (haven't done that since build 27a or something)
[10:34:08] <Posixzombie> is there anybody that  knows ?
[10:34:09] <razrX> running sxcr builds only
[10:36:01] <raph_ael> hello
[10:37:17] * timeless isn't really sure that the man pages are being actively updated
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[10:52:48] <whaq> that's rather particular..
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[11:00:23] <trygvis> does the standard postgresql source tarball support dtrace?
[11:00:29] <trygvis> or do I have to get the sources/packages from sun directly?
[11:01:26] <lloy0076> trygvis: I don't know enough about DTrace to answer totally, but even if it *didn't* wouldn't there still be a lot of information you could glean about a process without specific DTrace hooks into its source?
[11:01:47] <trygvis> sun has added psql-specific hooks :(
[11:01:48] <trygvis> err, :)
[11:02:15] <lloy0076> lol
[11:02:25] <trygvis> which is the version I'm looking for
[11:02:32] <lasseoe> I would imagine it's in the regular source aswell
[11:03:09] <trygvis> hmm .. it's installed under /usr/bin/postmaster
[11:03:33] <lloy0076> Gawd, I hate trying to glean information about modern CPUs and systems to see which is "better" even if you know "how" you want it to be better.
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[11:09:44] <lloy0076> So, Opterons are better -- I think -- than AMD 64 X2 Duos but it's not obvious.
[11:13:27] <trygvis> lloy0076: http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/postgresql.jsp
[11:15:07] <quasi> lloy0076: if nothing else, opterons usually have larger cache than x2
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[11:18:05] <aliquis> and i think the chips are of better quality and therefor overlock better (and are probably more stable if you don't overclock them)
[11:19:53] <aliquis> But isn't conroe e6600 a better cpu? Most gamers benchmark seems to suggest so atleast ;)
[11:21:09] <quasi> aliquis: minesweeper really doesn't take all that much power anyway ;)
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[11:23:35] <quasi> aliquis: but reading bmseer's blog is usually a good way to get a bit of perspective on the intel benchmarks - http://blogs.sun.com/bmseer/
[11:23:44] <aliquis> quasi: But I have no idea what he would use it for and if dual core is all what matters or if it has to be more than two cores, but I think conroe E6600 is a faster cpu anyway
[11:24:25] <lloy0076> I'm essentially a desktop user who tends to use: Netbeans, Eclipse, Glassfish, Firefox, Thunderbird and Gaim.
[11:24:34] <lloy0076> I will eventually compile Solaris itself.
[11:24:49] <Doc> you can't compile Solaris
[11:24:50] <lloy0076> I may want to run Centos in a BrandZ LX zone.
[11:24:59] <Doc> you can only compile OpenSolaris
[11:25:00] * lloy0076 sigh
[11:25:05] <aliquis> quasi: I don't have time to read that, but I think I would more trust random game reviewer with the regular benchmarks than something special from a sun employee.
[11:25:47] <aliquis> http://xtreview.com/review115.htm
[11:25:50] <aliquis> or whatever
[11:26:02] <quasi> aliquis: sure, if we're talking about gamer rigs - servers usually need different things
[11:26:19] <aliquis> quasi: As I said I have no idea how that will affect stuff
[11:26:22] <lloy0076> I don't think I fit in a gamer mod.
[11:26:37] <lloy0076> Honestly, I think they'd both be as good as each other for me.
[11:26:51] <aliquis> in any case even cheapest 1.83ghz conroes are faster than higher en FX-cpus from amd
[11:27:04] <aliquis> but I guess hypertransport/faster FSB might matter in some cases aswell
[11:28:07] <lloy0076> I would have liked to have the money to buy an UltraSparc based system just to see if they're any good.
[11:28:08] <aliquis> lloy0076: I've bought AMD in my older machines because it performed better for the price, but atm it seems Intel does that and all my machines have had Via chipsets which I don't like that much so I expect Intel chipets to be better, thought AMD with Nvidia chipsets are probably ok aswell.
[11:28:09] <lloy0076> *heh*
[11:28:45] <quasi> yeah, hypertransport does matter - and one added benefit for the socket F opterons - when they do a 4 core version, you can just put in a quad core instead
[11:29:06] <aliquis> also in my case intel on intel975 efi motherboard is a safer bet for hacked os x ;)
[11:29:15] <lloy0076> heh
[11:29:18] <lloy0076> Hacked OS X?
[11:29:46] <lloy0076> [No, not the OS X apple in the left hand corner, that DAMNED start button in the bottom left...gawddamnit]
[11:30:24] <aliquis> lloy0076: I guess it's to much of topic, but you can install os x on most pcs, the 10.4.8 kernel have just recently had sse2 emulation added but have worked on Intel cpus for a while, but it's hacked to run on machines with bios instead of EFI so who knows in the future if running on BIOS isn't longer possible maybe an EFI motherboard will help.
[11:31:05] <lloy0076> aliquis: Solaris on Qemu on OS X on Intel sounds kinda perverted.
[11:32:25] <lloy0076> What I learned today: Intel Pentium D945s cannot overcome crappy ISP DNS servers. No matter how fast your dual core wonder machine goes, that out of your control can kill your performance.
[11:34:09] <nightswim> run yer own
[11:35:23] <lloy0076> nightswim: I would but...I have work to do :P
[11:35:36] <lloy0076> (and it's hourly...so waiting for DNS to resolve is paid time for me)
[11:35:51] <aliquis> lloy0076: In any case it's power management stuff and cpuids which make it not run on amd from the begining, but that have of course been removed, but I guess on intel you can keep them, also with the 10.4.8 kernel you can load real nvidia drivers and get accelerated graphics on a "hackintosh".
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[11:36:01] <lloy0076> BTW, I love the new Java 6 ads. It goes faster. It wouldn't be difficult for Java to go faster.
[11:36:03] <aliquis> older versions used 10.4.4 kernel which couldn't load the drivers
[11:36:04] <lplatypus> e
[11:36:27] <Griff> speaking of power management, does anyone know if disabling powernow is a discouraged practice with vmware esx?
[11:37:28] <hali> lloy0076: i hear you haven't used java5 much
[11:37:33] * lplatypus loves how chatzilla pops to the front and grabs keyboard focus, oops :|
[11:37:59] <klepplap> in some window managers this is a matter of configuration
[11:38:12] <klepplap> (all?)
[11:39:46] <lloy0076> hali: I've used Java 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 5 and 6.
[11:40:28] <lloy0076> hali: I should clarify. It wouldn't take MUCH to make Swing apps such as Netbeans to look like they're doing something - especially on lower end platforms.
[11:40:43] <lplatypus> ah found it: i'm using kde whose default configuration disables focus stealing ... except for 5 apps, including firefox which is the container for chatzilla(!)
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[11:42:10] <Peanut> Hi everyone
[11:42:21] <lplatypus> lloy0076: is there a particular slowness that you're thinking of?  eg start-up latency?  gui double-buffering?
[11:43:16] <lloy0076> lplatypus: Start up latency sucks - especially with big GUI apps that I've seen.
[11:43:34] <lloy0076> lplatypus: Unfortunately, end users (and I can at times be one of them) will decide it's slow because of it.
[11:43:44] <lloy0076> lplatypus: And Netbeans is just plain slow and/or a resource hog.
[11:44:07] <lloy0076> lplatypus: I have noticed the more hardware/ram I throw at it, the more responsive it is BUT it's always equally as unresponsive to anything else.
[11:44:34] <lloy0076> lplatypus: I.E. it's still 5 times slower than say GAIM, just on a 20X faster comp it's 20X faster but so is GAIM.
[11:48:00] <lloy0076> That said, the Java Community has a lot of really good specs and processes AND realistically hardware is cheap.,
[11:49:49] <lplatypus> I would have thought that any difference is not noticable once it reaches a certain level of responsiveness
[11:49:49] <lplatypus> netbeans performance has only hurt me when I didn't have enough RAM or at startup when the JVM was still warming up
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[11:50:53] <lloy0076> lplatypus: I've always found Netbeans to be noticeably laggy, even on a newer machine.
[11:51:02] <trygvis> tried idea?
[11:51:04] <trygvis> it's really good
[11:52:09] <lloy0076> lplatypus: On my new Intel Pentidum D 945 with OpenSolaris and 2GB of memory and a not so crappy drive, I can generally think a 'bling' before a menu will come up. With a native Gnome app, I can't think that 'bling'. It's very minor at the high end but I can notice it. I agree, it becomes less noticeable.
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[12:04:05] <whaq> blings are good
[12:05:11] <lloy0076> whaq: Blings are bad. I measure 'waiting time' in blings.
[12:06:29] <whaq> most ppl just put em on their bodies for style
[12:07:58] <lloy0076> whaq: I know. I detest 'bling'. I really feel like getting a blow torch and melting 'bling' gold on its wearers whilst they're wearing it.
[12:12:41] <lplatypus> i can see the link between bling(=lag) and bling(=gaudy decoration) in a gui :-)
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[12:55:17] <whaq> lol
[12:55:30] <whaq> they're functionally very similar
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[13:02:31] <BadKarma> meh
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[14:05:20] <cmihai> Lol, DEC Storageworks had an uptime of 10 years 331 days ;)
[14:05:34] <cmihai> And I just shut it down ;\
[14:05:43] <cmihai> I feel as if my epen15 is shrinking ;(
[14:12:47] <whaq> what's epen15?
[14:14:31] <cmihai> e-penis
[14:14:42] <cmihai> what uptimes are measured in
[14:14:47] <cmihai> e-penis cm :)
[14:16:58] <whaq> hahaha
[14:17:23] <whaq> 10 yrs is the equivalent of 50"
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[14:17:48] <leal> hello..
[14:17:53] <whaq> bout the size of my lcd..
[14:17:56] <whaq> hey there
[14:18:09] <leal> can i rename a pool, or i need to destroy/recreate it?
[14:19:32] <whaq> i think you can export and re-import it under a different name
[14:19:55] <cmihai> whaq: yeah
[14:20:01] <cmihai> Well, I still have this:
[14:20:02] <whaq> but.. what's in a name, eh?
[14:20:07] <cmihai> ALPHA     AlphaServer 2100 (ALPH)   VMS   V6.2      1.  2   13-MAY-1996 19:49
[14:20:18] <cmihai> 10 years on the os :)
[14:20:43] <cmihai> DAMN
[14:20:44] <cmihai> NO
[14:20:53] <cmihai> I just remembered I shut this down with the storage
[14:20:59] <cmihai> so it wouldn't have the thing mounted: (
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[14:23:50] <cmihai> Hm.. 50'' LCD?
[14:23:53] <cmihai> That's bling :)
[14:25:53] <kirma> cmihai: that line was mount info?
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[14:28:43] <cmihai> kirma: neh, uptime
[14:28:58] <cmihai> Well, a script really
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[14:32:32] <whaq> wow, they're so old  you gotta calculate the uptime manually ;)
[14:34:08] <cmihai> Yep
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[14:34:28] <cmihai> + that it shows time from the begining of the ERA
[14:34:31] <cmihai> And for VMS that's not 1970 :)
[14:35:20] <whaq> heh
[14:35:33] <whaq> storagework is some sort of SAN? how big is the space?
[14:36:01] <cmihai> Yeah, it's a SAN...
[14:36:13] <cmihai> Some 72 4GB SCSI disks in RAID-5
[14:36:29] <cmihai> "The epoch of OpenVMS is midnight preceding November 17, 1858, which is the start of Modified Julian Day numbering." - heh
[14:36:40] <whaq> did u say 72 drives?
[14:36:45] <cmihai> I could check
[14:36:49] <cmihai> But it's a huge ass fridge
[14:36:54] <andersmo> The Storageworks line has survived a few acquisitions and is now marketed by HP.
[14:37:15] <cmihai> 2x 8x7
[14:37:34] <cmihai> Oh, 112 :)
[14:37:46] <cmihai> + 16 more in the cluster
[14:37:56] <whaq> geez
[14:38:31] <whaq> that's some gas guzzlin bahemoth u got there
[14:39:27] <cmihai> Hehe
[14:40:06] <cmihai> It's rebuilding as we speak
[14:40:10] <cmihai> Should take a while hehe
[14:40:27] <cmihai> Bloody think still works you know
[14:40:35] <cmihai> Big oracle db server
[14:41:41] <lasseoe> physically big more so than anything else, by the sound of it :)
[14:42:10] <cmihai> Neh, it's only 2 racks
[14:42:27] <cmihai> Well, 3 with the vt's
[14:42:34] <cmihai> And tapes and stuff.
[14:43:06] <whaq> whoa..
[14:43:23] <whaq> do you know how fast that thing goes? (data thruput)
[14:43:33] <cmihai> Pretty fast, it's on FDDI :)
[14:44:12] <cmihai> Oh, you mean the storage? No idea, but it's on SCSI something
[14:44:32] <andersmo> We've got 3 storageworks (EVA) systems in production here, and one or two phased-out systems. Those systems are solid. =)
[14:44:33] <cmihai> I'd say about 100MB/s but I could be wrong.
[14:44:46] <cmihai> andersmo: yeah, literally
[14:44:57] <cmihai> You can have a go at them with a chainsaw :)
[14:45:13] <andersmo> I think HP published a promo video of an EVA getting shot.
[14:45:24] <whaq> hehe they don't make em like they used to..
[14:45:32] <andersmo> and repaired on-line.
[14:45:38] <cmihai> :)
[14:46:34] <hali> yes, indeed.. we have some problems with rouge alquida members in the datacenter... we had a howbitz attack on a hds9k the other week :)
[14:47:07] <cmihai> andersmo: shot as in.. shot?!
[14:47:09] <andersmo> http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/cache/49205-0-0-225-121.aspx?bodycontentparams=320065-0-0-0-121&ERL=true - there it is, I think.
[14:47:14] <andersmo> cmihai: with a rifle. =)
[14:47:19] <cmihai> fsck me...
[14:48:02] <cmihai> andersmo: guh, can't see that in Solaris Firefox :(
[14:48:09] <whaq> no more of fscking around after zfs..
[14:48:15] <andersmo> I think I've got them downloaded somewhere.
[14:55:02] <andersmo> cmihai: http://folk.ntnu.no/andersmo/hp_shoots_a_disk_array.wmv - it's a wmv file, but mplayer plays it just fine, in Linux at least.
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[14:56:03] <cmihai> andersmo: I've seen it, awesome
[14:56:06] <cmihai> I mean, damn
[14:56:16] <cmihai> That's just kickass
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[14:58:42] * timeless wonders if anything bad would happpen if X was sent a sigstop
[15:00:48] <whaq> he has a 'gay me' on his quit msg.. huh huh
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[15:12:05] <Posixzombie> I try : ps -ef | grep rout and get no results; is the in.routed daemon needed
[15:12:06] <Posixzombie> only in routers?
[15:13:00] <lasseoe> yes
[15:13:42] <darrenm> you might see in.rdisc on systems that aren't routers if during boot we didn't get a default route by other means
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[15:19:34] <Posixzombie> if i configure by ip filters the machine to forward packets -is there a need to routed dameon to be on ?
[15:19:57] <Posixzombie> (and of couese ndd -get /dev/ip ip_forwarding returns 1)
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[16:18:48] <onbot> commit by mp153739:  6463960 Missing dependencies in some gss and krb packages
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[16:53:51] <adam_z> dtrace is supported by macos and freebsd
[16:54:02] <adam_z> zfs is supported by macos and freebsd
[16:54:16] <adam_z> hi all
[16:54:38] <adam_z> do you think it's good for opensolaris?
[16:55:10] <sickness> surely
[16:55:15] <raph_ael> zfs is not really availavble on freebsd
[16:55:23] <raph_ael> it's in porting stage
[16:57:13] <sickness> well, I think the wider the userbase the better for the product, no matter if the product is good or bad... look at windows, it sux, but it has like 90%+ of the userbase on the desktop :P
[16:59:33] <coffman> i would love to have a zfs port for windows :)
[17:00:01] <jamesd> adam_z, yes all of those are good for Solaris, because when you want the very best you will skip  the clones/or ported version and use the real thing.
[17:00:21] <jbk> at the very least, it'll increase curiousity about solaris
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[17:01:40] <adam_z> yes jamesd, in common people would like to use the original one, not the ported one.
[17:02:31] <adam_z> but I think our challenge is Linux
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[17:03:17] <adam_z> we have to admit windows is good os, lots of us in sun are using it. lots  outside of sun are using windws
[17:03:18] <aliquis> raph_ael: is it available for os x?
[17:03:24] <aliquis> was more than i knowed
[17:03:31] <aliquis> dtrace yes
[17:03:34] <elektronkind> hmm. the only thing missing from OSX now is the rest of the solaris kernel.
[17:03:36] <aliquis> in leopard that is
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[17:04:04] <raph_ael> aliquis: it seems that in the beta releases of their next version there are tools for managing zfs
[17:04:05] <adam_z> but if linux turns to adopt zfs and dtrace
[17:04:10] <aliquis> k
[17:04:17] <aliquis> i wonder if timemachine uses it or not
[17:04:23] <coffman> well, if sun buys apple the could merge solaris and os x :)
[17:04:24] <raph_ael> maybe
[17:04:33] <coffman> *y
[17:04:40] <aliquis> coffman: I don't know if that is good or bad D
[17:04:41] <aliquis> ;D
[17:04:42] <raph_ael> i think zfs won't be available in linux before it's gpl'd
[17:04:46] <jbk> well if we're going to resurrect old rumors, 'but apple id dieing'
[17:05:29] <raph_ael> :)
[17:05:30] <jamesd> even if solaris is gplv3'd  linux still won't get ZFS because the license is still incompatible because  linux gplv2 only.
[17:05:41] <coffman> well, apple stucks on his old freebsd based kernel that need to be hacked like hell...
[17:06:09] <raph_ael> jamesd: I saw rumors for solaris with gpl 2 more than 3
[17:06:12] <aliquis> adam_z: Solaris needs to have a decent package management system, be more responsive on the desktop, use OSS and have more games before I'll say it's better than Windows ;)
[17:06:13] <raph_ael> but rumors...
[17:06:38] <raph_ael> coffman: the kernel of mac os x is mach and not freebsd's one
[17:06:43] <aliquis> coffman: Uhm, ..
[17:06:44] <aliquis> exactly
[17:06:45] <aliquis> ;/
[17:07:03] <aliquis> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU
[17:07:10] <raph_ael> exactly :)
[17:07:27] <raph_ael> a decent package management would be a huge improvement
[17:07:31] <aliquis> Originally developed by NeXT for the NEXTSTEP operating system, XNU was a hybrid kernel combining version 2.5 of the Mach kernel developed at Carnegie Mellon University with components from 4.3BSD and an object-oriented API for writing drivers called Driver Kit.
[17:07:32] <raph_ael> imho
[17:07:33] <aliquis> After the acquisition of NeXT by Apple, the Mach component was upgraded to 3.0, the BSD components were upgraded with code from the FreeBSD project and the Driver Kit was replaced with a C++ API for writing drivers called I/O Kit.
[17:07:42] <adam_z> aliquis: yes, absolutely. but my headache is linux
[17:07:55] <aliquis> well compared to linux the same stuff
[17:07:56] <jbk> well i haven't checked lately, but at least on my old sunblade 100 w/ 256mb ram, the nevada builds were quite usable for a basic desktop
[17:08:06] <aliquis> because then it would be atleast similair or better than linux in all areas ;D
[17:08:11] <darrenm> aliquis exactly what is wrong with the Solaris packaging system ?  Please be very specific
[17:08:19] <jbk> so i think progress is being made
[17:08:28] <jbk> the same system tended to page a lot w/ solaris 10 ga
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[17:08:32] <coffman> raph_ael:  yeah thats true, but it has that freebsd stuff in it
[17:08:33] <aliquis> darrenm: To me the stuff which is wrong is I can't automagically install latest kde and what not ;D
[17:08:48] <raph_ael> sure coffman
[17:08:49] <adam_z> alisquis: I think this is also our boss's headache
[17:09:17] <darrenm> so that might not be anything wrong with the packages but more about the installer and the fact that in Sun's distro of Solaris we don't ship KDE at all
[17:09:21] <jamesd> darrenm, slow, doesn't support automatic dependencies,  can't request to build packages instead of using prebuild binaries, no single repository of opensource code.
[17:09:26] <darrenm> have you looked at pkg-get from blastwave ?
[17:09:44] <darrenm> jamesd: thats because it is a packaging system not a build and package system like rpm
[17:09:53] <darrenm> what do you mean by automatic dependencies ?
[17:09:54] <aliquis> darrenm: Well if I want to install software I can choose from blastwave which is easy to use but haven't got the source available for all ports
[17:09:59] <aliquis> or sunfreeware which isn't so easy to use
[17:10:01] <aliquis> or pkgsrc
[17:10:16] <aliquis> and nothing of them have a huge amount of packages and none of them have kde 3.5
[17:10:24] <jamesd> darrenm, blastwave is the best there is, but it still pulls in tons of extra dependencies that aren't needed.  and still have no package removal support or package build option.
[17:10:27] <aliquis> and none of them have packages built with OSS support
[17:10:46] <aliquis> jamesd: pkgsrc would work ;)
[17:10:55] <darrenm> so that has nothing to do with the packaging tools and has everything to do with the choices of the people building the packages
[17:11:14] <aliquis> darrenm: Well can people commit packages to whatever sun uses?
[17:11:29] <darrenm> what do you mean by that ?
[17:11:35] <aliquis> it not who cares, it's not like i expect sun to ship all software in the world
[17:11:41] <aliquis> but it would be nice if they did in that case
[17:11:42] <darrenm> follow the opensolaris.org contribution methods
[17:12:13] <aliquis> darrenm: Well if I want to install random open source application I would use blastwave and not whatever Sun has atm
[17:12:37] <aliquis> so what need to be fixed (very specific) is something useful with plenty of packages which are easy to install ;/
[17:12:57] <darrenm> I'm really not interested in arguing about content or what specific pacakge is available I was more interested in finding out what was wrong with the actual tools not the content deployed with the tools
[17:13:00] <coffman> aliquis: use nexenta then u get ure beloved apt
[17:13:13] <darrenm> they are very different issues - one is technical the other is a mix of technical and political
[17:13:13] <raph_ael> as for my experience of pkgsrc on solaris, it's often breaking packages
[17:13:23] <aliquis> coffman: But I don't know what I misses out on from solaris in that case
[17:14:05] <coffman> solaris is not that "end user polished" yet
[17:14:23] <aliquis> darrenm: Well I don't even know what tools are available, or well, i know about pkgadd or whatever, but sure, in that case the only problem is that it isn't useful since there are no packages available.
[17:14:48] <darrenm> so what is wrong with pkgadd ? - what doesn't it do as a tool that you want it to do ?
[17:15:09] <aliquis> installs latest kde ;)
[17:15:42] <aliquis> and a working sipphone, but it seems like ekiga finally works, so that is ok
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[17:17:17] <aliquis> darrenm: Anyway with a system which easily fetched packages and dependencies, a central place to get them from and a possiblity for regular users to add packages it would be much easier to run Solaris as a desktop private person noob
[17:18:49] <aliquis> Would be sweet if stuff where built with OSS support aswell for the cases where there are no sun audio drivers or they don't support much of the functionallity of the hardware
[17:20:39] <richlowe> darrenm: the whole speed issue (and whatever memory consumption thing Doc mentioned last night)
[17:21:29] <raph_ael> a gpl'd solaris maybe could help to developp unofficial ports of solaris that would fit better to desktop, and better than nexenta
[17:21:58] <jamesd> raph_ael, not sure... nexenta is pretty damm nice for the desktop I have to admit.
[17:22:01] <aliquis> just ONE system for it instead of .. four? five? would be a start
[17:22:31] <aliquis> the reason there exist so many at all should give some hints
[17:22:33] <raph_ael> except the installer, I agree jamesd, but for the moment it's not very legal
[17:22:44] <richlowe> and if by 'just one system' you're referring to the duplication between the CCD, CSW and Sun Freeware, even suggesting cooperation causes a huge ass argument.
[17:22:58] <jamesd> raph_ael, whats not legal about it?
[17:23:01] <richlowe> so it's in some ways more pleasant to let them all run off in opposite directions than to bring them together to argue ;)
[17:23:16] <whaq> right
[17:23:40] <raph_ael> jamesd: using the solaris kernel with gnu userland is not much legal as a point of licences
[17:23:54] <richlowe> of course it is.
[17:24:01] <richlowe> the GPL has a specific exception for such things.
[17:24:02] <raph_ael> really ?
[17:24:14] <jamesd> raph_ael, its as legal as using  mozilla with a linux kernel.
[17:24:18] <richlowe> given that GNU started working on their userland before they had a free kernel to run it on, yes.
[17:24:37] <raph_ael> ok so my bad :)
[17:24:56] <aliquis> richlowe: +blastwave +netbsd pkgsrc
[17:25:03] <raph_ael> maybe i read to much gnu zealots posts
[17:25:18] <aliquis> richlowe: I can't see what good comes from various people doing the same things
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[17:25:57] <jamesd> raph_ael, if it wasn't legal,  fsf  or some other group would have delevivered cease and desist overders to  nexenta
[17:26:51] <aliquis> doesn't nexenta webpage says their whole purpose is to give gnu a better kernel? ;)
[17:27:15] <dvorak> or give solaris a less crappy userland ;p
[17:27:20] <raph_ael> jamesd: thanks for the details, I was not aware of it
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[17:34:02] <raph_ael> I once tried Nexenta, but setting it with other os'es on install time was quite a pain
[17:35:39] <jamesd> i have it installed in vmware and its great far nicer than i expected it to be.
[17:37:48] <whaq> has anyone setup nis+? how much work is it? :P
[17:38:11] <loke> whaq: lots
[17:38:23] <elektronkind> I wouldn't bother. NIS+ is dead. really.
[17:38:32] <elektronkind> it's the devil
[17:38:40] <raph_ael> setting it up as the only os was quite easy jamesd, but on a disk with other oses, it's harder, well for me ;)
[17:38:55] <whaq> oh.. so, ldap then? or what's recommended for directory service?
[17:39:03] <darrenm> whaq: NIS+ is really easy to setup
[17:39:09] <elektronkind> these days, it's ldap
[17:39:10] <darrenm> just follow the documentation on docs.sun.com
[17:39:32] <whaq> is the ldap in sun one dir server good?
[17:39:45] <darrenm> IMO LDAP is MUCH harder to setup than NIS+ ever was - but thats just my experience as some one how used to do support and sustaining for NIS+
[17:39:58] <darrenm> so my view could be skewed
[17:40:07] <whaq> darrenm, either you're being sarcastic or you;re a masochist, according to the 'poll' just now ;)
[17:40:13] <elektronkind> ldap is also most flexible in that you can do whatever you want with it
[17:40:14] <andersmo> whaq: sun one directory server is one of the less braindead ones, yeah. =)
[17:40:36] <elektronkind> we use sun directory server here as the core of our identity management system
[17:40:37] <whaq> col
[17:40:46] <elektronkind> ~200k entries
[17:41:03] <whaq> is sunone available for dowload? we got the cd at work (sparc version, if it ain't java)..
[17:41:04] <darrenm> it really depends what you want, as a system nameservice NIS+ is great if you have a need for LDAP for other things anyway and already have LDAP deployed in your company use it don't even consider any other nameservice for Solaris
[17:41:05] <andersmo> openldap is somewhere in between, and oracle internet directory is far out there on the "most braindamaged ldap service ever" scale.
[17:41:12] <whaq> i meant the x86 version, if  it ain't java
[17:41:30] <elektronkind> 5.2 iirc
[17:41:53] <darrenm> http://www.sun.com/software/swportfolio/get.jsp
[17:41:59] <elektronkind> dirctory server 7 will be java-based though.
[17:42:16] <andersmo> one of the nice things with sun's directory server is that it permits much maintenance work to be done online.
[17:42:17] <elektronkind> version 6 will be the last major release of the current code base
[17:42:43] <elektronkind> look up the OpenDS project if you want more info on that roadmap
[17:42:44] <andersmo> ..and it has multi-master replication which can also come in handy.
[17:42:57] <whaq> close to MS active directory in terms of (relative) simlicity and administrative interface?
[17:43:04] <whaq> darrenm, thanks
[17:43:42] <andersmo> whaq: Probably easier if you want to do something that's not covered by a wizard in AD. ;)
[17:44:23] <andersmo> (AD is a finicky creature once you start stepping outside the regular basic boundaries that everyone uses.)
[17:44:35] <Vanuatoo> I opened a topic http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=19893&tstart=0 but noone replied.
[17:45:56] <whaq> andersmo, hey, they've 'magically' taken control of a huge majority of the networks on earth ;)
[17:46:23] <andersmo> Not very many of them use a custom schema in AD, for instance. =)
[17:46:46] <andersmo> easy in SunDS, a bit more scary in AD.
[17:46:58] <whaq> ah ok
[17:47:40] <andersmo> The windows admins here look funny at you if you consider adding more attributes to AD. =)
[17:47:55] <sickness> I would not even consider using AD =)
[17:47:56] <sickness> ghgh
[17:48:01] <sickness> god bless us...
[17:50:01] <jamesd> tell them if they like "AD" so much we could put an "AD" in the employment section for there replacment.
[17:50:47] <andersmo> With a few thousand windows machines to manage, AD makes sense.
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[17:51:09] <jbk> it would be nice to have a out-of-box ldap + kerberos solution on solaris (with better host access control too :P)
[17:52:16] <darrenm> jbk: do you mean ldap+kerberos data stored together or the ldap client using kerberos auth ?
[17:52:55] <jbk> both really
[17:54:28] <jbk> though the big reason for kerberos is removing the need for reentering passwords, which at least now is mitigated with the account usable control
[17:55:11] <darrenm> the later - LDAP using Kerberos for auth works today
[17:55:18] <andersmo> another advantage is that kerberos KDCs can be locked down very well.
[17:55:31] <darrenm> LDAP uses SASL which has a GSS-API plugin which has Kerberos as a mechanism
[17:55:52] <darrenm> for the storing Kerberos data in LDAP there has been some work in the IETF for standardizing this
[17:56:05] <darrenm> but it is very slow and onagain/offagain
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[18:02:56] <elektronkind> hmm. a panic in ip:ip_bind_connected is probably a bad thing, isn't it?
[18:03:06] <darrenm> all panics are bad things ;-)
[18:03:32] <elektronkind> well, sshd just panic'd one of my s10u3 servers :)
[18:03:40] <richlowe> unless deliberately induced.
[18:04:13] <jbk> that would seem to be a bad thing
[18:04:33] <alanc> okay, bugs.opensolaris.org really needs a "STOP FILING /bin/sh or /bin/ksh IS TOO FREAKING OLD BUGS" banner
[18:04:48] <richlowe> alanc: close them, refer the submitter to Roland.
[18:04:54] <alanc> CR 6505507 Created P4 opensolaris/triage-queue making /bin/sh standard-compliant shell
[18:04:55] * elektronkind realizes that his mdb-fu is not on par
[18:05:07] <richlowe> or the project rather, not *just* Roland.
[18:05:18] <richlowe> alanc: out of interest, are these all from separate submitters?
[18:05:31] <alanc> I think so
[18:05:36] * richlowe hadn't realized demand was so high.
[18:05:42] <richlowe> though I can understand it for /bin/sh.
[18:05:48] <darrenm> I did have a laugh at the /bin/sh is POSIX compliant on all other unixes one
[18:05:58] <richlowe> not sure what you'd close that duplicate of though.
[18:06:15] <darrenm> it isn't
[18:06:30] <richlowe> IRIX somewhat cheats, and uses ksh as sh, and calls the bourne shell bsh.
[18:06:36] <darrenm> what was funny was the claim that /bin/sh was standards compliant on all other unix and unix like systems they had used
[18:06:41] <richlowe> and makes people everywhere expecting the opposite scream in anger.
[18:07:17] <richlowe> well, me at least, anyway :)
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[18:10:16] <alanc> I was tempted to close as dup of 4088172: *sh* request to have /usr/bin/sh be a POSIX shell, but that's closed as will not fix
[18:11:40] <richlowe> Any commentry on why? (I had thought /bin/sh was a strict subset of posix, so I'm wondering what I missed if it isn't)
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[18:14:50] <alanc> 4088172 claims that making /bin/sh POSIX would break existing scripts, but does not provide details of where the conflicts lie
[18:15:23] <alanc> it was also closed in 1997, so may not be the same answer we'd get today
[18:17:50] <darrenm> yeah probably the same rationale as why upgrade of ksh is hard
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[18:18:15] <richlowe> Yeah, I can understand "hard and dubiously worthwhile", I was wondering if there was an "impossible" in there.
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[18:18:58] <darrenm> nothing is impossible in software ;-)
[18:19:03] <darrenm> it is just about the risk ;-)
[18:19:41] <richlowe> See, I'd have said effort. :)
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[18:21:25] <alanc> LOL - "Your username is your Secure Pass password" - of course calling it "Secure Pass" in capitals makes it so secure to use something everyone knows about you as your password
[18:22:32] <bougie> hello :)
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[18:28:18] <whaq> so are we seeing a different default shell on solaris 11 then? :)
[18:30:12] <jamesd> not likely..it would give too many people heard attacks.. either from disbelief  or  that there greatest love has been replaced
[18:30:29] <trygvis> hehe
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[18:31:13] <jamesd> i dont want to meet the type of person that can love sh  though that just scares me.
[18:32:00] <whaq> hehe
[18:32:23] <whaq> they edit their text files w/ edlin probabluy
[18:32:54] <jamesd> and there command lines as well
[18:35:26] <whaq> *nix never had anything as braindead as edlin, did they..\
[18:35:53] <jamesd> whaq, man ed
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[18:37:33] <jamesd> ed and edlin weren't stupid if you were on a teletype terminal or a 110 baud serial link.
[18:37:36] <whaq> welp, that makes sense in *nix environment with its greater ability to script, pipe, etc
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[18:40:33] <whaq> ah that makes sense
[18:40:58] <whaq> they still have edlin in vista btw
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[18:59:49] <onbot> commit by as145665:  6488898 Fix for 6460901 only works for standards test cases; breaks everywhere else
[19:03:38] *** Dar is now known as Dar_HOME
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[19:06:48] <onbot> commit by James Anderson:  6502676 prtdiag(1m)  prints duplicate information for Quad Gigabyte ethernet cards
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[19:14:24] <stevel> morning stefan, danek
[19:14:32] <dduvall_> morning
[19:14:57] <dduvall_> stevel, can you /kick dduvall?
[19:15:50] <steleman_work> morning stevel
[19:16:19] *** dduvall was kicked by stevel (stevel)
[19:16:20] <gdamore> hi *
[19:16:26] <ProfMikey> dduvall_: it wont help you much, register your nick then use /msg nickserv ghost  command
[19:16:29] <jamesd> dduvall kicking him won't solve anything you still won't be able to take his nickname...
[19:16:31] <stevel> dduvall_: masochistic or something?
[19:16:36] <dduvall_> Oh.
[19:16:38] <dduvall_> <sigh>
[19:16:45] <stevel> damn that was satisfying
[19:16:48] <onbot> commit by et142600:  PSARC/2006/599 SPARC PCI Express Fabric FMA Support; 6345809 SPARC PCIe systems should not call pci_ereport_post; 6404017 PX Error handling code should match error philosophy spec; 6418713 Failed PIOs in PCIe sparc platforms may go undetected
[19:16:57] <ProfMikey> meh
[19:17:04] <dduvall_> I'll just wait until that session times out or whatever.  I just killed the mozilla that it came from a few minutes ago.
[19:17:07] *** ProfMikey is now known as GoodKarma
[19:17:16] <dwc-> 10:17 [freenode] -!-           : is identified to services
[19:17:17] <steleman_work> morning dduvall
[19:17:26] <dwc-> why don't you try the nickserv ghost thing
[19:17:29] <dwc-> that'll make it go away immediately
[19:17:56] *** dduvall_ is now known as dduvall
[19:18:04] <GoodKarma> bingo
[19:18:05] <dduvall> Nifty.
[19:18:08] <dduvall> Thanks, all.
[19:18:17] <GoodKarma> no issues
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[19:57:11] <pikapika> hello
[19:57:45] <estibi> hi pikapika
[19:57:54] <pikapika> hi estibi
[19:59:51] <asyd> ola
[20:00:18] <onbot> commit by Mark Maybee:  6502193 race in zfs_rename
[20:00:37] <pikapika> asyd: :)
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[20:08:48] <stevel> rofl
[20:08:50] * stevel waits for it
[20:09:35] <richlowe> ... eh?
[20:09:57] <GoodKarma> meh
[20:10:30] <GoodKarma> you guys...err...anyone of you going for the osdevcon?
[20:10:45] <stevel> goodkarma: not i
[20:11:20] <stevel> richlowe: dduvall's backout msg, which onbot should be parroting soon
[20:11:37] <GoodKarma> bummer
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[20:12:47] <richlowe> stevel: gives 'em time to make those bugs visible, too.
[20:12:48] <richlowe> ;)
[20:12:49] <onbot> commit by Danek Duvall:  backout 6345809/6404017/6418713/6466248: x86 build failed; no more mr fscking nice guy
[20:14:35] * quasi might be going, but it depends on price (which I can't find anywhere) and what else I'm doing at the time
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[20:17:06] <stevel> sxcr snv_54 is up
[20:17:11] <elektronkind> that's a rare one
[20:17:17] <elektronkind> sxcr == onbld
[20:18:10] <richlowe> for about another 24 hours.
[20:18:19] <GoodKarma> lol, dduvall
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[20:36:13] <gisburn> This is so silly. I am working to get ksh93 added to _Solaris_ and now are responsible to get _Linux_ bugs fixed.
[20:36:18] <gisburn> crap
[20:37:20] <gisburn> and Linux's widechar implementation is some half braindead pool of junk code mixed with crap and then beefed-up to support "unicode conquers anything"
[20:38:50] <gisburn> Can anyone remind me in my next life that I demand to be paid for this pain ? Thanks! ;-(
[20:38:59] * gisburn grumbles
[20:39:08] <steleman_work> gisburn: does this mean you won't fix the freebsd bugs in ksh93 ? :-(
[20:39:21] <gisburn> erm
[20:39:38] <quasi> gisburn: just give up and let us keep the good old ksh ;)
[20:39:39] <gisburn> steleman_work: which freebsd bugs ? so far it compiles on freebsd
[20:40:05] <gisburn> quasi: do you volunteer to maintain that 18year old code ?
[20:40:16] <steleman_work> gisburn: i am sure there must be some bugs in ksh93 on freebsd
[20:41:17] <trygvis> gisburn: so you're upgrading from 18 year old code to 13 year old code?
[20:41:18] <trygvis> nice
[20:41:52] <quasi> gisburn: 18 year old sounds like decent whiskey - well aged and not as rough as the young stuff ;)
[20:42:30] <steleman_work> kshiddich
[20:42:58] <gisburn> trygvis: 18years old and abandoed by it's own authors. ksh93 means ksh, spec=93. current version is 's' which is from 2006-12-07
[20:44:28] <richlowe> steleman_work: nice, even it's pronunciation makes you long for drunkenness. :)
[20:45:52] <steleman_work> richlowe: you can still somehow pronounce it even after one full bottle of it
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[21:06:19] <cmihai> God, getting SXCR via links && wget is such a pain
[21:07:51] <gisburn> cmihai: I have a script for that.
[21:08:04] <cmihai> :D
[21:08:05] <gisburn> cmihai: which doesn't need "wget" either.
[21:08:08] <cmihai> Would you care to share?
[21:08:15] <elektronkind> it uses ksh93
[21:08:20] <cmihai> I love you :D
[21:08:22] <gisburn> elektronkind: correct.
[21:08:23] <cmihai> <3 ksh
[21:08:27] <elektronkind> it uses ksh93's built in tcp socket layer?
[21:08:37] <gisburn> cmihai: erm, you're female, right ?
[21:08:45] <gisburn> elektronkind: yes
[21:08:45] <cmihai> This is IRC, you can pretend :P
[21:09:23] <gisburn> cmihai: yeah, be carefull, I am interested in things like laying eggs, breeding and raising the offspring.
[21:09:36] <cmihai> Ugh...
[21:09:52] <elektronkind> a/s/educational disposition ?
[21:10:01] <gisburn> cmihai: I am sure fakes will fail at item [1]
[21:10:10] <cmihai> Heh
[21:10:25] <gisburn> elektronkind: ?!
[21:10:42] <gisburn> elektronkind: no, I just mean I'd like to have cute little babies some day.
[21:10:59] <elektronkind> babies.
[21:11:04] <elektronkind> fun to make
[21:11:06] <elektronkind> fun to eat
[21:11:09] <cmihai> It sounds a lot more grose in your previous formulation
[21:11:10] <gisburn> hey
[21:11:28] <cmihai> Anyway, could you get to the sharing or did I miss that?
[21:11:38] <gisburn> elektronkind: and fun to raise them.
[21:11:50] <cmihai> Yeah, mini-me!
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[21:12:12] <gisburn> cmihai: yes, I can post it later today. but you're still screwed as ksh93 wasn't putback into OS/Net yet.
[21:12:25] <cmihai> Neh, I put that in myself.
[21:12:35] <cmihai> Can't live without korn :P
[21:12:45] <cmihai> Breakfast is the most important meal of the day you know :P
[21:13:12] <cmihai> gisburn: well, I won't be around, but highlight my name and the link, and I'll be sure to pick it up later. Thanks.
[21:13:26] <cmihai> Planning to liveupgrade some remote system
[21:14:58] <cmihai> gisburn: any eta on ksh93 landing/
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[21:21:40] <gisburn> cmihai: ask dduval :-)
[21:22:32] <gisburn> cmihai: so far we need paperwork, more paper, some work, some paperwork, a review, more paperwork, more paperwork and dduvall not in a mood to backout random patches while sticking his tongue out.
[21:22:35] <gisburn> more or less
[21:22:36] <gisburn> :-)
[21:22:48] <stevel> he doesn't backout random ones
[21:22:55] <stevel> he very carefully selects which ones he backs out
[21:22:56] <stevel> ;-)
[21:23:05] <stevel> he's a gatekeeper with discriminating tastes
[21:23:12] <sommerfeld> break the build, get backed out.  really simple.
[21:23:17] <gisburn> stevel: watch the smiley :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)...
[21:23:18] <gisburn> ...:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
[21:23:22] <cmihai> ....
[21:23:23] <quasi> so we're talking a couple of days before ksh2010 arrives? ;)
[21:23:39] <gisburn> quasi: yeah yeah, tease me.
[21:23:42] <lasseoe> *yawn*     ;-)
[21:23:57] <cmihai> quasi: a shell is like a good wine
[21:24:04] <cmihai> Not good enough unless at least 20 years old
[21:24:19] <cmihai> see sh(1)
[21:24:21] <gisburn> cmihai: sure, lets downgrade /bin/sh to the thomson shell
[21:24:40] <gisburn> it's predates even the bourne one
[21:24:50] <richlowe> split the difference, use mashey
[21:25:29] <gisburn> richlowe: ?!
[21:26:17] <gisburn> Sometimes when I hear about the backwards-compatibilty concerns I am close to file a bug to get /bin/sh downgraded to the thomson shell level.
[21:26:55] <cmihai> Bloody hell, ksh93 is 99,9999% backwards-compatible with ksh88
[21:27:01] <steleman_work> there are definite advantages in sticking with /bin/sh
[21:27:02] <cmihai> And I've forgotten the exception..
[21:27:26] <gisburn> steleman_work: yeah, driving people mad.
[21:27:52] <quasi> cmihai: it's the .0001% that kills you
[21:28:16] <steleman_work> gisburn: the code is pretty easy to debug, because it's all written with macros which made C look like BASIC.
[21:28:41] <gisburn> the FUN part is that C99 applications use /usr/xpg4/bin/sh for popen() etc.
[21:30:03] <gisburn> steleman_work: why are there then so many open bugs about /bin/sh crashing for one or another reason ?
[21:30:38] <steleman_work> gisburn: a faulty script is the most likely reason
[21:30:38] <gisburn> steleman_work: /bin/sh appears to be unmaintained or at least has no fixed maintainer
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[21:32:30] <steleman_work> gisburn: it does not need maintaining
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[21:36:40] <PerterB> if "faulty scripts" can crash the shell, then clearly it does need maintaining
[21:38:28] <gisburn> PerterB: steleman_work's comment reflect how many people at Sun think about the problem, right after he comment "... that thing can go to hell, I won't touch it, let someone else burn his/her claws..."
[21:40:22] <gisburn> s/many/some/ to be fair
[21:40:41] <gisburn> sometimes I wish Solaris would have fixed maintainers for code
[21:45:11] <gisburn> alancaway: ping!
[21:45:17] <gisburn> alanc_away: ping!
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[22:06:06] <alanc> gisburn: pong
[22:06:31] <alanc> had to clean out my office before I could get to my desk - they dumped all our new hardware for this quarter in my office this morning
[22:07:08] <gisburn> alanc: you're teasing me, right ?
[22:07:11] <cmihai> lucky bastd... I wish I were burried in hardware :D
[22:07:22] <gisburn> yeah
[22:07:27] <alanc> most of it was packing material
[22:07:37] <gisburn> that is no excuse
[22:07:48] <alanc> 1 each of the new Sun Ray 2 models (2, 2FS, 270) - not much to get excited about
[22:07:59] <alanc> 5 new Unix layout Type 7 kbd/mice country kits
[22:08:30] <alanc> a pair each of XVR-200 & XVR-300 frame buffers
[22:08:31] <richlowe> and now you've said that, your office will fill with people.
[22:08:42] <richlowe> (... you should have said that first, and got them to unpack your stuff in payment.)
[22:08:55] <alanc> oh, and 2 Ultra 20 M2's so we can work with their on-board ES-1000 chipsets
[22:09:15] <alanc> the new 24" LCD got claimed first of course
[22:09:34] <gisburn> alanc: who got it ? stuart ?
[22:09:49] <alanc> yes
[22:09:52] <gisburn> hah
[22:10:11] <alanc> since he loaned his previous one out and never got it back
[22:10:18] <gisburn> heh
[22:10:31] <gisburn> alancI would be happy with 15'' LCDs
[22:10:38] <gisburn> alanc: note the 's'
[22:10:48] <gisburn> alanc: five give a cool xinerama view
[22:10:50] <alanc> and of course to make sure the EDID data from it was correctly interpreted by Xorg
[22:10:59] <alanc> don't think we have any 15"
[22:11:15] <alanc> other than the one built into the Sun Ray 150
[22:11:33] <alanc> there is a 19" sitting in the corner in my office not plugged in since I got the 20" to replace it
[22:12:06] <Doc> alanc: I'll email you my mailstop - just drop it in the internal mail :)
[22:12:39] <alanc> it'll probably end up in our lab one of these days
[22:12:53] <gisburn> jaaaauuuuuuullllllll
[22:12:58] <gisburn> you have all the resources
[22:13:01] <gisburn> ;-(
[22:13:11] <sommerfeld> pull a reverse Spinal Tap and get a 15' LCD.
[22:13:12] <gisburn> why is world so unfair
[22:13:21] <Doc> we've got dual-headed 19" connected to SunRay 1G - i'm not exactly complaining
[22:13:21] <alanc> hardly - two new computers in one quarter is not "all the resources"
[22:13:23] <gisburn> sommerfeld: ?!
[22:13:42] <gisburn> alanc: I'd be happy with a V880z
[22:13:45] <alanc> sommerfeld: heh - I actually typed 24' LCD first
[22:14:08] <gisburn> I still can't belive that Sun cancled the machine.
[22:14:31] <Doc> V880z was only ever really a marketing system name
[22:14:42] <Doc> it's just a V880 with a few framebuffers in it
[22:14:52] <gisburn> and if sun would offer a V890z I could sell four on the spot.
[22:15:07] <gisburn> just two phone ncalls
[22:15:12] <gisburn> s/n//
[22:15:22] <gisburn> Doc: the point was the "few framebuffers"
[22:15:34] <gisburn> Doc: did you EVER saw a zulu in action ?
[22:16:01] <sommerfeld> I was referring to a ' vs " confusion gag in the movie "This is Spinal Tap", which resulted in a mis-sized Stonehenge set which could be crushed by a dwarf.
[22:16:02] <Doc> yes
[22:16:11] <Doc> but my point is that it wasn't really a "different" machine to a V880
[22:16:28] <Doc> there was no point in it having it's own product name as such
[22:16:31] <gisburn> Doc: I know.
[22:16:44] <alanc> gisburn: we never even got a V880z or XVR-4000
[22:17:19] <alanc> that system was more than our lab hardware budget for the entire year
[22:17:23] <gisburn> but if I ever get ten million euro for free I pay up my family credits, build my own house and then by a V880z for my own personal workstation.
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[22:17:36] <gisburn> s/by/buy/
[22:17:41] <Doc> we've got one in our lab.. even got two FB's in it
[22:17:48] <gisburn> grrrr
[22:17:59] <gisburn> Doc: do you hire people ?
[22:19:29] <gisburn> *.au is australia
[22:19:34] <gisburn> right ?
[22:19:48] <gisburn> or austria ?
[22:20:10] <syndrome71> .au is indeed australia.
[22:20:16] <alanc> gisburn: the one that's thousands of kilometers from you
[22:20:29] <gdamore> hehe.
[22:22:06] <gisburn> I don't care.
[22:22:07] <gisburn> zulu
[22:22:09] <gisburn> zulu
[22:22:11] <gisburn> zulu
[22:22:20] <stevel> alanc: my office is packed... the two thumpers are taking up an ungodly amount of office space ;)
[22:22:37] <gisburn> stevel: do you move ?
[22:22:39] <alanc> heh - I carted everything down to our lab
[22:23:02] <alanc> much nicer now that the lab is on the same floor of the building our offices are in instead of 10 miles across the bay in NWK
[22:23:34] <stevel> gisburn: these are going up to the colo cage for opensolaris.org
[22:23:49] <gisburn> colo cage ?
[22:23:56] <stevel> where opensolaris.org is
[22:23:58] <gisburn> monster cage ?
[22:24:03] <alanc> co-location
[22:24:10] <gisburn> erm
[22:24:17] <gisburn> WTF is a co-location ?
[22:24:26] <syphilis> when you pay someone to put your servers in his datacentre
[22:24:27] <gisburn> re-location is clear
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[22:24:58] <Stric> the 'co' is probably from the same as 'c/o' (care of) in snail mail
[22:25:05] <gisburn> syphilis: does opensolaris.org pay sun to use sun's datacenter using sun'
[22:25:07] * Stric is just guessing
[22:25:10] <gisburn> syphilis: does opensolaris.org pay sun to use sun's datacenter using sun's money ?
[22:25:33] <alanc> I thought it was as in "located with", like "co-habitation" is "living with"
[22:25:58] <syphilis> gis: it doesn't necessarily have to involve actual payment.  but i don't know where opensolaris.org is hosted, i had the impression it's not part of the normal sun stuff..
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[22:27:18] <sommerfeld> alanc: that's my understanding.  renting space in a datacenter which is co-located with high bandwidth internet pipes.
[22:27:43] <richlowe> serving in sin? ;)
[22:28:14] <lplatypus> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/co-
[22:29:19] <sommerfeld> you can typically rent rack units, partial or full single-rack cabinets, or wire-mesh "cages" around some amount of floor space.
[22:29:27] <alanc> richlowe: only if you colo with porn sites
[22:29:46] <sommerfeld> richlowe: that's what the cages are for
[22:32:06] <gisburn> Was there no senator yet in the US who demanded that the servers must be cleaned from the porn and locked from the hardware side to prevent further distribution of porn ?
[22:32:45] <jamesd> wonders how much  the smp ultraT* chips and  tumpers are going to do to the colo space rental thing...   dual rock cpus in 2RU and a  x4500   is about 5RU that could theoreticly replace a  lot of full racks at least  doing internet stuff...
[22:32:52] <gisburn> ENOACCESSFILECONTAINSPORN
[22:33:01] <lplatypus> I never understood the ridiculously high data charges offered by colocation services in Australia, eg http://www.conexim.com.au/documents/colodata.html
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[22:33:38] <lplatypus> I would have thought it was cheaper to get data to a colocated server than getting it to a home via ADSL, but the ADSL data prices are so much cheaper
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[22:34:31] <quasi> lplatypus: ouch, pricey
[22:34:40] <stevel> ouch!
[22:34:53] <stevel> i pay ~$50 US to colo my 1U machine + 1U JBOD
[22:34:56] <jamesd> lplatypus, nah they have to pay for power, ups, cooling, plus connectivity and most places give you a minimum of 10mbit up/down connection... with guaranteed service unlike  3mbit/128  adsl
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[22:35:46] * quasi is looking at EUR39 for a dedicated amd box with 2x160G drives and free bw
[22:36:25] <lplatypus> I would have thought that power/cooling costs would be included in the per-rack-unit charge
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[22:37:20] <quasi> lplatypus: it is pretty common to take that either seperately or only allow a very small amount of power/rack
[22:37:41] * gisburn writes up his proposal for the OS/Net cruncher - builds OS/Net in less than two minutes
[22:37:42] <quasi> I've seen as bad as 750W/rack
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[22:38:08] <Stric> 750W/rack isn't very usable
[22:38:23] <quasi> no
[22:39:01] <quasi> but these days I'm looking at buying ~2 racks just to get 10 or 12 x2200s in
[22:39:32] <sommerfeld> stevel: I'm part of a colocation "co-op" which rents a full cabinet from Internap in Boston.  Currently doing about $39/month per person
[22:40:16] <stevel> sommerfeld: yeah, i'm in a co-op here in SF. $50/month seems to be about the best i can find for 2U worth of equipment
[22:40:39] <gisburn> sommerfeld / dduvall : is there anyone intesrested in an experiment to compile OS/Net in less than two mins ?
[22:40:56] <sommerfeld> gisburn: who's paying for the hardware?
[22:41:08] <gisburn> sommerfeld: sun... :-)
[22:41:29] <richlowe> who's doing all the work on build parallelism?
[22:42:00] <gisburn> sommerfeld: it doesn't have to be permanent, just a temporary setup for two or three weeks using cheap hardware
[22:42:16] <gisburn> richlowe: mainly the tree will work out of the box.
[22:42:19] <sommerfeld> so, uh.
[22:42:20] <richlowe> and if you're thinking ccache or distcc, you'd have to fix them up to work.
[22:42:27] <gisburn> richlowe: no.
[22:42:32] <richlowe> if you're meaning dmake's distribution, good luck.
[22:42:35] <gisburn> richlowe: no distcc, no ccache
[22:42:37] <sommerfeld> the makefiles need significant work to allow for that much parallelism
[22:42:47] <richlowe> sommerfeld: which was my point.
[22:43:04] <quasi> gisburn: sounds like an excellent thing for sun grid ;)
[22:44:00] <gisburn> sommerfeld: correct me if I am wrong, but locks for dmake in distributed mode are handled via the filesystem, right ?
[22:45:42] <gisburn> sommerfeld: which means if you have 32+2 niagara1 machines, 32 worker nodes with 16 dmake jobs per node (cw will double that to run cc and gcc in parallel), one machine to distribute the diskless client system for the worker nodes and one machine which exports a tmpfs volume via NFSv4 ...
[22:46:18] <gisburn> ... where is the problem except that you may need some new .WAIT barriers ?
[22:47:33] <gisburn> are there any known problems with OS/Net vs, dmake's distributed mode ?
[22:48:11] <sommerfeld> gisburn: uh, no.  the problem is that there are too many .WAIT and .WAIT-equivalent barriers in the makefiles at present.
[22:48:31] <richlowe> it's mostly definitely not a matter of needing new ones.
[22:48:34] <gisburn> sommerfeld: yeah, but you can compile kernel + userspace in parallel... :-)
[22:48:39] <sommerfeld> see also "Recursive Make Considered Harmful"
[22:48:40] <richlowe> it's a matter of replacing the existing ones with correct dependencies.
[22:49:03] <richlowe> I have a partial fix for $SRC/lib, but I mismerged it when tamarack came in and haven't gotten around to fixing that and going further.
[22:49:24] <gisburn> richlowe: yes, but first get it working properly (e.g. reach a working, stable state) and THEN break up things into more slices again
[22:49:37] <sommerfeld> gisburn: so, if you want to pursue this, start small and work up.
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[22:50:00] <gisburn> sommerfeld: can you give me two niagara machines, please ?
[22:50:01] <richlowe> People do parallel builds with extreme regularity, just not across hosts (I don't think).
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[22:58:27] <gisburn> umpf... sometimes simple things like tombstones show bitter stories: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b5/Robert_Frost_Grave_Bennington_2006.jpg ;-(
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[22:59:50] <_william_> hi all
[23:01:15] <cmihai> gisburn: I kind of like happy ones
[23:01:20] <cmihai> Happy tombstones that is
[23:02:56] <gisburn> cmihai: this particular tombstone doesn't look happy for me. two of his children die very early and two others died around my age and only one made it beyond 90.
[23:03:05] <gisburn> s/die/died/
[23:04:01] <cmihai> gisburn: neither did the one in the "happy graveyard"
[23:04:04] <jmcp> his wife died @ 65 ... not a bad innings, especially given infant mortality rates and likelihood of mothers dying in childbirth
[23:04:41] <cmihai> gisburn: it's a special graveyard that has funny tombstones... and vivid pictures, but sad stories. I don't remember the name, but I'll post pictures if I find them
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[23:05:17] <cmihai> They all had weird haiku's on the tombstone
[23:05:25] <gisburn> cmihai: http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/4729/tombstone9sl.jpg
[23:05:26] <sommerfeld> gisburn: Near the center of the town I live in is a marker which says: "Near this spot Samuel Whittemore, then 80 years old,killed three British soldiers April 19, 1775. He was shot, bayoneted, beaten and left for dead, but recovered and lived to be 98 years of age."
[23:06:35] <lloy0076> Going to read /.cpan/sources/authors/01mailrc.txt.gz
[23:06:36] <lloy0076> Undefined subroutine &Compress::Zlib::gzopen called at /usr/perl5/5.8.4/lib/CPAN.pm line 5722, <FIN> line 2.
[23:06:43] <cmihai> gisburn: heh, links :)
[23:06:48] <gisburn> cmihai: http://2dorks.com/gallery/2003/tombstone_first_letters/fu_tombstone.jpg
[23:06:49] <lloy0076> ...who'd one report that to -- i.e. is that a Perl issue or an OpenSolaris one?
[23:07:05] <lloy0076> 5.8.4 is kinda old too.
[23:07:24] <cmihai> gisburn: heh, something like that.
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[23:08:37] <gisburn> sommerfeld: that explains why you[1] seperatists were able to split from the mightly commonwealth - dumb overpaid soldiers who didn't finish their job.
[23:08:42] <gisburn> ([1]=US)
[23:08:49] <gisburn> sommerfeld: (just joking)
[23:09:29] <gisburn> sommerfeld: which movies was that .. german prison camp where the officers digged tunnels all the time and made a party and then the british officers makde the same accuse to the US ones ?
[23:10:00] <jmcp> the Great Escape?
[23:10:28] <sommerfeld> Yup.
[23:10:33] <gisburn> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057115/
[23:10:34] <gisburn> yeah
[23:10:37] <sommerfeld> all-star cast
[23:13:04] <gisburn> http://xc8.xanga.com/c23a56260873263645834/b42666832.jpg
[23:13:17] <PerterB> damnit, now I'm going to to be whistling the theme tune to myself all evening
[23:14:06] <lloy0076> I've got A Spoonfull of Sugar Help the Medicine Go Down stuck in my mind. Curse Mary Poppins :(
[23:14:23] <gisburn> PerterB: what ? The funeral theme ? Or the Great Escape (upper left key on the keyboard)
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[23:14:40] <PerterB> gisburn: The Great Escape
[23:14:53] <gisburn> lloy0076: 40mm bofors can solve that...
[23:15:04] <alanc> but have you seen the cursed Mary Poppins youtube video?   http://www.boingboing.net/2006/12/05/mary_poppins_horror_.html
[23:15:23] <alanc> that should get spoonful of sugar out of your head 8-)
[23:17:51] <PerterB> alanc: that's ace... almost as good as the romantic comedy trailer for "The Shining"
[23:17:54] <lloy0076> That's actually quite good. In a bizarre way.
[23:18:07] <jmcp> alanc: eeek!
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[23:21:57] <gisburn> http://youtube.com/watch?v=g1rsvLUSiAU
[23:22:30] <jmcp> gisburn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ85dX88Vsk
[23:22:43] <alanc> putback to X consolidation: 6494070, P3, xserver/xorg-server - libXv.so.1 in snv_51 and later breaks xine
[23:22:50] <gisburn> mommiieee... they made a movie from opensolaris: http://youtube.com/watch?v=O6zpU0Tb9HU
[23:24:48] <lloy0076> Some people have too much time on their hand.
[23:24:53] <lloy0076> That said, I have to dawdle off to work.
[23:25:19] <lloy0076> Arrscriverci!
[23:25:20] <gisburn> opensolaris movie, the boring version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ttygE2y_M4M
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[23:30:14] <gisburn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyLhvUfMbK8
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[23:39:53] <gisburn> cool, they have puppies... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8oJK0T5NJw
[23:39:57] <gisburn> like my two
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[23:40:21] <jamesd> what are you puppies named    ksh93 and ksh94 ;-p
[23:40:41] <richlowe> evenin'(?) Gman.
[23:40:51] <Gman> hi richlowe
[23:40:56] <jmcp> Gman: welcome back!
[23:41:23] <Gman> howdy jmcp
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[23:41:57] <jmcp> Gman: back in nz?
[23:42:03] <Gman> jmcp, nope, in ireland
[23:42:08] * jmcp checks another source
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[23:42:38] <gisburn> jmcp: no, I mean they're as old as I had to give my puppies away, back to the zoo...  ;-(
[23:42:45] <_william_> hi Gman
[23:42:52] <gisburn> er
[23:42:57] <_william_> hi jamesd , hi jmcp hi all others :)
[23:42:57] <gisburn> s/jmcp/jamesd/
[23:43:44] <Gman> hey _william_
[23:44:08] <jmcp> hi _william_
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