[00:01:25] <Tpenta> THat second quote is Kathy Bennett, director of IBM's Linux Technology Center
[00:02:21] <dwc-> cuz adobe doesn't have a solaris x86 version to offer you
[00:02:31] <hile_> alan: you almost owed me a new keyboard
[00:02:42] <Tpenta> hile_: :)
[00:02:48] <hspaans> dwc-: I was hoping that with version 8 they would have fixed that bug
[00:03:15] <dwc-> I think they have a version 4 or something loitering around
[00:03:34] <hspaans> I need 7 or higher
[00:03:53] <alanc> do they even have a SPARC version of AcroRead 8?   I thought it was Windows & Mac only last I looked, with Linux coming soon
[00:04:05] <syphilis> what is kdump?
[00:04:16] <dwc-> beats me.  I use the ancient gnome-encumbered one that sun updatemanager gave me
[00:04:23] <sommerfeld> linux has reinvented ancient technology and this warrants a press release?
[00:04:24] <dwc-> I think that's 7
[00:04:29] <hspaans> alanc: your right :(
[00:04:48] <dwc-> I really should just build myself xpdf ...
[00:05:46] <hspaans> dwc-: with release 7 you can build "applications" in pdf and the tax-office has those wicked solutions
[00:06:01] <hspaans> and the chamber of commerce
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[00:08:39] <onbot> commit by Lin Ling:  6480245 renaming a dataset to something with '%s' will cause segfault
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[01:02:35] <boyd> I think the need for the press release is not technical but a change from the old attitude that "crash dumps make programmers lazy"
[01:02:52] <dlg> ?
[01:03:00] <jmcp> boyd: that attitude is going to take a long time to disappear from the lunix community
[01:03:10] * boyd was replying to a comment from > 1 hr ago
[01:03:20] <jmcp> dlg: boyd'd referring to the oft-quoted reason for not having crash dumps or cda tools for lunix
[01:03:27] <boyd> jmcp: Yeah, it's symptomatic of a larger attitude
[01:03:57] <dlg> hrm
[01:04:03] <dlg> i dont think i should get started on that topic
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[01:08:47] <boyd> PSARC 2006/659 "fork extensions" is for use on barbeques, presumably
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[02:07:53] <jbalint> hi
[02:08:03] <jamesd_> hi
[02:08:08] <boyd> hi
[02:08:29] <jbalint> is there any 3rd party sata ii card that would be supported on an e420 under s10?
[02:09:34] <dlg> the silicon image stuff is very common
[02:09:38] <dlg> and there are drivers for it
[02:09:43] <dlg> whether they work on sparc64 is another issue
[02:10:31] *** kb7sqi has joined #opensolaris
[02:16:55] <jbalint> whats a good site to look at /buy them?
[02:19:39] <moazamraja> newegg.com
[02:20:22] <jbalint> are they only pci-x?
[02:20:49] <moazamraja> check newegg,they'll have the diff types
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[02:21:14] <jbalint> the silicon image only seems to be pci-x
[02:23:48] <dlg> e420 isnt pci-e though
[02:26:18] <jbalint> e420 is only pci, right?
[02:26:25] <moazamraja> yeah
[02:27:18] * jmcp mutters about the e420
[02:28:43] <moazamraja> plain ol' pci
[02:29:08] <jmcp> I don't mind the bus, it's the memory mezzanine that I hate
[02:29:17] <dwc-> LSI
[02:29:23] <jamesd_> jmcp, well if you want to stop complaining about it.. just send me one... and then it won't be yours to bitch about any more ;-p
[02:29:24] * jmcp mutters about LSI as well
[02:29:27] <jmcp> just for good measure
[02:29:30] <jmcp> I don't have any
[02:29:38] <jmcp> but I recall several escalations with them
[02:29:50] <jmcp> which were quite, quite painful
[02:30:13] <dwc-> well, I know the LSI cards work on sparc under S10
[02:30:29] <dlg> yes...
[02:30:47] <jmcp> ok, time for lunch
[02:31:43] <dlg> hp sell lsi cards fairly cheap
[02:31:46] <jbalint> are the Addonics cards lsi-based?
[02:31:51] <dlg> i wonder if they leave the fcode on them
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[02:51:38] <onbot> commit by yq193411:  6428204 CDC ACM class driver and devices with modem function need to be supported (fix build)
[02:51:51] <syphilis> ooh, someone broke the build
[02:52:03] <onbot> commit by yq193411:  6428204 CDC ACM class driver and devices with modem function need to be supported (fix build)
[02:52:03] <richlowe> They did?
[02:52:11] <richlowe> stevel: Your fix apparently was bogus ;)
[02:52:18] <syphilis> according to that commit message they did ;-)
[02:52:21] <richlowe> or they broke it twice :)
[02:52:22] <stevel> #)*@)()(@%)%*W#%
[02:52:34] <stevel> goddamnit
[02:52:43] <richlowe> syphilis: packaging snafu.
[02:52:52] <stevel> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/onnv-notify/2006-December/thread.html
[02:52:58] <stevel> shows it was only sent once
[02:53:17] <stevel> ouch
[02:53:19] <gisburn> uhm
[02:53:22] <stevel> backout 6451790: needs more work
[02:53:35] <gisburn> stevel: mailman may supress duplicates.
[02:53:42] <stevel> gisburn: not in this case
[02:54:09] <syphilis> i only seem to have it once in my inbox
[02:54:12] <syphilis> unless the second didn't arrive yet
[02:54:15] <stevel> richlowe: i think my hooks are correct; i only received one copy of the notification, and mailman only received it once
[02:54:18] <richlowe> Yeah, I only have it once thus far.
[02:54:20] * stevel is going to blame onbot for this one
[02:54:49] <stevel> sigh. it's been a long day
[02:54:57] <stevel> i'm going out for a drink
[02:55:04] <richlowe> stevel: also, that was not #64
[02:55:17] <stevel> richlowe: damnit. did i type 64? i meant 62
[02:55:27] <stevel> augh
[02:55:30] <richlowe> the synopsis didn't match, either ;)
[02:55:39] <stevel> @#)%(*#@%
[02:55:43] <stevel> i'm going out for multiple drinks
[02:55:49] <richlowe> now that's a good idea.
[02:56:01] <stevel> see you guys tomorrow :-P
[02:56:06] <syphilis> i want a drink :-(
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[02:56:11] <richlowe> stevel: later.
[02:56:17] <gisburn> 2l of votka will make you forget this, opensolaris, your pain, live and everything else... :-)
[02:56:33] <gisburn> d'oh
[02:56:35] <gisburn> to late
[02:56:40] <gisburn> s/to/too/g
[02:56:57] <richlowe> or you'll have all your current problems *and* vomit on your shoes.
[02:57:24] <gisburn> nah
[02:57:32] <gisburn> 2l would just terminate my life
[02:58:03] <Error_404> gisburn: vodka's too expensive
[02:58:04] <gisburn> I am one of the persons who seeks the next edge for sleeping after just two beers.
[02:58:15] <Error_404> what you do, is you pick up 2 40oz bottles of Colt45
[02:58:20] <richlowe> Error_404: find cheaper vodka.
[02:58:21] <Error_404> it will cost you $4
[02:58:35] <richlowe> it's not like you'll regret it anymore or less than any other kind of vodka.
[02:59:13] <gisburn> "premium wotka" is offered here for 4,99euro (where the "premium" means crap usable for cleaning things)
[02:59:32] <sniffy> Well booze isn't that expensive in Spain.
[03:00:04] <gisburn> and some botlles are even offered for 3.59euro...but this stuff is only recommended for external usage
[03:00:19] <Error_404> I'm in canada, booze isn't the cheapest
[03:00:33] <Error_404> i can get a litre of vodka for $10 or so, minimum
[03:00:36] <sniffy> 3.59euro is enough to get a good bottle of vodka here.
[03:00:45] <Error_404> but colt45 is still ghetto cheap
[03:01:14] <Error_404> apparantly you can get a 40 in a couple places in the states for just over $1
[03:06:31] * g4lt-U60 prefers S&W 500 mag ;P
[03:06:53] <dwc-> cheap vodka + brita filter?
[03:07:07] <gisburn> =explosion
[03:07:10] <syphilis> dwc: does that actually work?
[03:07:11] <g4lt-U60> dwc-, cheap vodka + jello ;P
[03:07:32] <g4lt-U60> there's always room for jello
[03:07:38] <g4lt-U60> ...shots
[03:07:43] <gisburn> dwc-: depends on whether the cheap wotka will react with the stuff in the brita filter or not.
[03:07:51] <gisburn> I woudn't try it myself.
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[03:08:11] <dwc-> someone did it
[03:08:14] <dwc-> they said it tasted pretty good
[03:09:11] * sniffy &
[03:11:32] <dj2> they did it on mythbusters, taste inproved but the cost of the britta filters was greater then the cost of good vodka
[03:12:18] <Error_404> but then you don't get to make it yourself
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[03:12:42] <Error_404> couldn't you make some filters that aren't brita that'd work the same & be cheaper?
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[03:13:15] * steleman pokes gisburn
[03:13:23] <Error_404> iirc it's just charcoal in the filters
[03:13:36] * jmcp remembers jelly shots from uni days
[03:14:49] <Error_404> maybe with some Ag2O3 in 'em as well
[03:15:30] <dwc-> silver ... oxide?
[03:15:34] <Error_404> yes
[03:15:45] <Error_404> Ag2O though... not o3
[03:15:59] * dwc- doesn't remember much chem anymore
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[03:24:07] * gisburn pokes steleman back...
[03:27:30] <gisburn> steleman: ping!
[03:28:32] <steleman> gisburn: pong!
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[03:40:47] <boyd> This nearly came up yesterday... does the si3124 driver work on sparc?
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[03:42:01] <boyd> I'm wondering about one of these for a SPARC box: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16816124003
[03:45:36] <moazamraja> does that thing even have drivers to work on Solaris x86 /
[03:45:37] <moazamraja> ?
[03:46:40] <Error_404> boyd: keep in mind i'm not a driver dev, and i know nothing about driver development... but isn't the driver opensource?
[03:46:53] <Error_404> as in, if it doesn't work for sparc, you could make it work?
[03:47:09] <boyd> moazamraja: That was exactly my question
[03:47:32] <boyd> Error_404: I *could* travel overland to tokyo too..
[03:47:49] <moazamraja> boyd: well..u mentioned sparc...
[03:47:55] <Error_404> editor of 2600 did that
[03:48:06] <Error_404> travelled across the world w/out using a plane once
[03:48:21] <boyd> moazamraja: hence my question about the si3124 on sparc
[03:48:34] <moazamraja> ok :)
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[04:06:46] <jamesd_> hi dennis-
[04:08:18] <dclarke> hello
[04:08:27] <gisburn> dclarke: Hi!
[04:08:28] <dclarke> I'm juggling a few things here
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[04:08:38] <gisburn> dclarke: does blastwave have GNU strace ?
[04:08:41] <dclarke> gisburn : long time no hear !
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[04:09:15] <dclarke> gisburn : strace ?  go see http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php  but I don't think so
[04:09:34] <jbk> why not use truss?
[04:10:12] <gisburn> jbk: linux has no truss
[04:10:23] <gisburn> jbk: and I need to compare output.
[04:10:30] <jamesd_> i think that strace is too embeded in  the kernel/proc just as truss is too solaris
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[04:20:16] <Error_404> hey dclarke
[04:20:21] <Error_404> haven't seen you in a while?
[04:22:44] <dclarke> sorry .. heads down here
[04:22:53] <dclarke> yep .. I've been hiding ..
[04:22:58] <dclarke> its a long story
[04:23:15] <Error_404> erm... okiedokie
[04:23:34] <Error_404> hiding from here, or hiding as in "tons to do"?
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[04:25:15] <edwardocallaghan> Hi
[04:26:23] <jmcp> hi edwardocallaghan
[04:27:36] <edwardocallaghan> :) How's things?
[04:30:40] <edwardocallaghan> Flash is so crap
[04:31:17] <edwardocallaghan> Guys I have not used a Sun Ray before...
[04:31:28] <edwardocallaghan> I am planning on doing a setup to learn
[04:31:56] <Error_404> isn't SRSS one of sun's "here's the download, don't use it *wink* " apps?
[04:32:24] <syphilis> i thought SRSS licenses are free now or were going to be
[04:32:49] <unixconsole> it's free.. you just pay for support.
[04:32:50] <edwardocallaghan> ?
[04:33:21] <jmcp> and for the sunray terminals :)
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[04:34:37] <edwardocallaghan> So I can download it but can't use it?
[04:34:50] <Error_404> edwardocallaghan: yes
[04:34:55] <Error_404> you can download it, it'll work
[04:34:58] <Error_404> but don't use it'
[04:35:02] <Error_404> like Oracle
[04:35:22] <syphilis> you can use oracle, their license allows it for prototyping
[04:35:50] <edwardocallaghan> Sorry?
[04:36:04] <edwardocallaghan> DB I use MySQL >?
[04:36:11] <syphilis> < Error_404> like Oracle
[04:37:46] <edwardocallaghan> Off top question - What computer system do City Bank use?
[04:37:58] <edwardocallaghan> Sun hardware ?
[04:38:15] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: surely you realise that is confidential information
[04:39:02] <edwardocallaghan> I know but general info...
[04:39:25] <edwardocallaghan> I was wondering if Sun was used in this area of the market
[04:39:34] <jbk> best bet is to look for press releases
[04:40:01] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: citibank is a bank. therefore they use Sun kit
[04:40:14] <jbk> most of your large companies will tend to have a bit of everything
[04:40:19] <jmcp> just like "US DOD is government. Therefore they use Sun kit"
[04:40:28] <Error_404> edwardocallaghan: look here: http://www.sun.com/servers/success_stories.jsp
[04:40:58] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Tpenta
[04:41:07] <edwardocallaghan> Would they use High-End servers?
[04:41:33] <syphilis> no, i bet they run on dell
[04:41:36] <Error_404> edwardocallaghan: anyone who knows what exactly they bought would (or should be) under NDA
[04:41:55] <Error_404> it's almost certainly confidential info
[04:42:02] <edwardocallaghan> NDA?
[04:42:19] <gisburn> new name for illuminati
[04:42:29] <dlg> ugh, nda
[04:42:57] <richlowe> I wouldn't much care about NDA's to find out what some random corporation uses.
[04:42:58] <edwardocallaghan> Sorry this is out of my range of info at the moment at the age of 19, but I was interested to find something that says Sun is used for banks and not dell?
[04:43:05] <richlowe> but I guess that's because it'd also be entirely uninteresting.
[04:43:14] <Error_404> edwardocallaghan: here, forget citibank... bank of montreal in canada (one of canada's big 5 banks) uses sun kit, it's on their success stories page
[04:43:17] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: most large corps have a "no single supplier" policy
[04:43:48] <Error_404> http://www.sun.com/solutions/documents/success-stories/grid_bom_bb.xml
[04:43:58] <edwardocallaghan> I guessed that I know Yahoo use lots of Sun kit
[04:44:21] <gisburn> edwardocallaghan: NDA=Non-Disclosure-Agreement. Or short: If you disclose the stuff we sue you, your parents and your family to death, jail your children and neuter your cat.
[04:44:30] <dlg> i thought yahoo was a dell shop
[04:45:20] * dclarke thinks "the neuter the cat?"
[04:45:34] <edwardocallaghan> I don't like cats much
[04:45:47] <dclarke> I like cats
[04:45:48] <Error_404> dclarke: yeah, after they've sued your whole family they may as well save you a few bucks
[04:45:52] <richlowe> dclarke: a reference to NDA's full of shock tactic provisions.
[04:45:55] <dclarke> they are excellent slow roasted
[04:46:12] <Tpenta> hi dennis
[04:46:16] <edwardocallaghan> no wonder why some pages show problems on yahoo
[04:46:17] <dclarke> hello
[04:46:36] <dlg> edwardocallaghan: some dell kit isnt bad, the software just sucks
[04:46:43] <dclarke> I a mstill working on my Solaris 10 Update 3 world speed record here
[04:46:51] <Error_404> speed record?
[04:47:11] <gisburn> dclarke: slow roasted ? I prefer them boiled in oil and the fur removed afterwards.
[04:47:14] <dclarke> I think I may have one ...  a real fast performance report from a S10u3 machine on Opterons
[04:47:24] <edwardocallaghan> MacDonald's use D'H'ell kit to make chips ...
[04:47:58] <gisburn> McDonald--->vomit
[04:47:59] <dclarke> what I really need is a single 3.0 GHz AMD Opteron
[04:48:10] <Error_404> don't we all
[04:48:32] <edwardocallaghan> I like fasts disks and RAM myself
[04:48:47] <dclarke> yeah but .. I really could use that speed right now
[04:48:48] <dlg> dclarke: smp is fun
[04:48:50] * gisburn would propose to collect the vomit stuff and dump it all in front of McDonald HQ
[04:48:55] <edwardocallaghan> RISC ;) CISC --->vomit
[04:49:04] <dclarke> but .. I'll just see what this 8-way machine can do
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[04:49:57] <dclarke> Sun gave me access to the GRID for this little software experiment also ... that was pretty cool of them
[04:50:04] <Error_404> I get to run away from the north for a couple weeks on friday... hooray
[04:50:35] <dclarke> north .. what north .. global warming will put an end to the north .. south .. and everything in the middle
[04:50:40] <edwardocallaghan> How is that grid thing as I am in the UK and can't use it :/
[04:50:51] <dclarke> its quick ..
[04:50:58] <dclarke> but not really really quick
[04:51:06] <dclarke> lots of procs
[04:51:38] <edwardocallaghan> I wonder how it works
[04:51:42] <Error_404> dclarke: my mom's getting me a plane ticket to vancouver for christmas
[04:51:47] <edwardocallaghan> Admins must really know there stuff
[04:52:22] <edwardocallaghan> dclarke:Any news on that site you said you could maybe do for me?
[04:52:25] <dclarke> Error_404: you get on planes?  wow
[04:52:46] <dclarke> edwardocallaghan: you need to do the work yourself .. but I'll arrange the resources
[04:52:51] <Error_404> i have a license to fly them (gliders, anyways), I should hope i get on planes
[04:53:06] <dclarke> edwardocallaghan: and I'm up to my ears at the moment .. so ... please be patient
[04:53:18] <dclarke> Error_404: I used to jump out of them
[04:53:33] <Error_404> yeah, i'm good inside them
[04:53:36] <Error_404> no need to leave
[04:54:38] <dclarke> I was in a tactical helicopter squadron for 2 years in the army .. so .. been there .. done everything
[04:55:05] <dclarke> including one emergency landing on a frozen lake in Quebec
[04:55:21] <dclarke> I must have puked my lungs out that day .. what a day
[04:55:38] <Tpenta> http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=16720
[04:55:45] <edwardocallaghan> dclarke:Yes I mean to do the site myself I just meant the server time, thank you very much ! Just checking you did not forget
[04:55:46] <Error_404> erm... thanks for sharing
[04:55:59] <dclarke> Tpenta: one sec .. let me look at that
[04:56:22] <Tpenta> torvalds + morton taking close aim at their feet
[04:57:08] <Tpenta> We won't let you run your driver on your system, .... how much like a DRM implementatoin does this sound like?
[04:57:09] <dclarke> Tpenta: that is a moronic business move
[04:57:34] <dclarke> Tpenta: its bloody 1989 all over again with the UNIX wars
[04:57:53] <Tpenta> maybe this is the real reason that linus doesnt like the DRM provisions of gpl3
[04:57:54] <Error_404> yeah, i thought that linux vs. everything else was starting to get that way
[04:58:21] <dclarke> Tpenta: I am hearing from more and more people jumping *back* into Solaris
[04:58:43] <dclarke> Tpenta: the biggest bitch is the lack of applicaitons still .. on x86
[05:00:16] <Tpenta> I wonder how many distros will exercise their gpl right to remove that code from their kernel
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[05:01:19] <Error_404> looks like FreeBSD is about to get a whole lot more popular
[05:01:41] <jlc> why is that
[05:01:42] <unixconsole> there are definitely a lot of shops looking at dumping redhat/suse for solaris on x86 and sparc because of the savings.
[05:02:35] <edwardocallaghan> I am moving from Linux to Solaris
[05:02:42] <edwardocallaghan> So I'm a example
[05:02:55] <edwardocallaghan> But I love SPARC's
[05:03:09] <unixconsole> besides.. beyond multi-media type apps that are deeply tied to linux.. there's nothing stopping ppl from recompiling for Solaris.
[05:03:28] <edwardocallaghan> Also I like PC-BSD and have done some stuff around there, it's a full FreeBSD under the hood
[05:03:42] <dclarke> unixconsole: I recently did a report for a telco that wanted to do virtualization on VMWare ESX Server and Red Hat Enterprise 4 AS and the software costs were just staggering.
[05:03:48] <unixconsole> a lot of shops are replacing thier opteron and intel web servers for solaris 10 on t1k/t2k's.
[05:04:03] <edwardocallaghan> No flash on BSD :( So PC-BSD people are not happy
[05:04:22] <jlc> edwardocallaghan, but you can still get it to work
[05:04:32] <unixconsole> dclarke: I work in the financial industry and the place where I'm at is looking at vmware.. but haven't thought of the real costs yet.
[05:04:37] <edwardocallaghan> Ture I can
[05:05:15] <edwardocallaghan> But the people of PC-BSD who want it as a home user should not have to use a stupid linux wrapper
[05:05:16] <unixconsole> dclarke: so I'm looking at other options like ldoms, xen, and xpars when the apl stuff comes out.
[05:05:39] <jlc> edwardocallaghan, true
[05:05:49] <edwardocallaghan> VMware don't support BSD as a platform
[05:06:02] <edwardocallaghan> Why would you want windows as a platform?
[05:06:07] <dclarke> unixconsole: the cost of VMware is very very high
[05:06:12] <edwardocallaghan> You want VM to run windows in a VM
[05:06:25] <unixconsole> vmware has pretty bad network performance unless you use the higher end products.. which I think sucks and shows how they are only after the $$$
[05:06:31] <dlg> edwardocallaghan: windows in a vm is better behaved than outside in my experience
[05:06:37] <dlg> also makes migration to new hardware easier
[05:06:39] <gisburn> unixconsole: erm
[05:06:42] <gisburn> unixconsole: no
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[05:06:56] <gisburn> unixconsole: network performace is ok if you use the e1000g driver.
[05:06:57] <edwardocallaghan> Of coruse dog
[05:07:02] <dlg> unixconsole: no, they generally just emulate a bad chip
[05:07:05] <edwardocallaghan> *dig
[05:07:08] <dclarke> unixconsole: the only product is VMware Infrastructure 3 and its cost is through the roof per 2 CPUs and then the supports costs ... are obscene
[05:07:16] <unixconsole> dclarke: very true.. the costs do not add up compaired to buy a bunch of 1u opteron servers once you add the license and support costs.
[05:07:18] <edwardocallaghan> Sorry this keyboard is crap
[05:07:27] <dlg> unixconsole: the vmxnet stuff is pretty clean
[05:07:41] <dclarke> unixconsole: I am going to write a detailed blog and maybe more on the issues I ran into
[05:07:50] <dclarke> I was on the phone with VMware sales for days
[05:07:55] <dclarke> as well as Red Hat
[05:08:03] <gisburn> unixconsole: I get more or less the equivalent of a 1Gbit adapter with the e1000g emulation.
[05:08:11] <unixconsole> dlg: not from my tests.. it's pretty bad on performance.
[05:08:12] <dclarke> and the telco is a Sun shop with Sun clusters running
[05:08:57] <dlg> unixconsole: i wonder which side of the vm barrier the problem was
[05:09:04] <unixconsole> dclarke: good. I'll look forward to your blog. I'm going to vmware infrastructure training next week, so I'll poke and prod them pretty hard.
[05:09:08] <dlg> cos from inside the vm, it should be quite fast
[05:09:19] <dlg> the "hardware" is very very simple
[05:10:07] <unixconsole> dlg: well the issue I saw was that if you switch from vmware workstation down to vmplayer.. the level of RX errors for the vmxnet driver are insane.. eventually it stops working:(
[05:10:14] <dclarke> unixconsole: my blog will sting a bit .. in the end its cheaper to port the applicaitons to Sollaris than to fork out $33,000 per four way machine.  Software costs only.
[05:10:17] <unixconsole> I see that has a crappy way to sell a product.
[05:10:19] <dlg> unixconsole: which client os?
[05:10:38] <unixconsole> dlg: solaris 10 and solaris express.
[05:10:49] <dlg> crazy
[05:10:57] <dlg> vmware wrote that driver for you, so it shoudl work
[05:11:06] <dlg> actually, im not surprised
[05:11:07] <unixconsole> dlg: I also noticed really bad disk performance if you have more than one vmware instance running.
[05:11:10] <dlg> vendors suck :(
[05:11:27] <dlg> hrm
[05:11:41] <dlg> which hba?
[05:11:46] <edwardocallaghan> So how do you just like Xen?
[05:11:47] <unixconsole> dlg: funny enough I looked around their site and they know about the problem.. the solution.. get esx and use the vmnet driver from it's solaris toolkit. pretty lame.
[05:11:50] <dlg> buslogic, ide, or lsi logic?
[05:12:10] <dlg> and what disks/controller in your actual machine?
[05:12:29] <unixconsole> dlg: didn't try it out on san storage yet. but I can definitely say it sucks on ide storage. pretty much any major IO on a vmware server can bring things down hill.
[05:12:34] <Error_404> hey dclarke, did you get my /msg ?
[05:12:47] <dlg> unixconsole: thats completely understandable
[05:12:49] <unixconsole> dlg: don't know, it's a dell box.. so it's probably crap.
[05:12:57] <dlg> haha
[05:13:04] <dlg> if its a desktop, yeah
[05:13:16] <dlg> ide is made to do long sequential io
[05:13:27] <dlg> random (or bouncing between two places on disk) hurts a lot
[05:13:38] <unixconsole> as for xen, I'm going to do some tests and comparisons after I get thru some other projects on my plate.
[05:13:40] <dlg> you can stream at like 70 meg a second, but random io drops to 10meg a second
[05:14:20] <unixconsole> dlg: true, but when it makes a p4 box feel like a p2.. it's pretty sad.
[05:14:20] <dlg> going to a real controller, even on one disk, will probably help a lot
[05:14:31] <dlg> welcome to intel ide
[05:14:49] <unixconsole> dlg: probably. we have some hp dl380's or something in the lab to screw around with esx.. so I have to check that out after the training.
[05:14:56] <dlg> anyway, im just saying, that from the guest operating systems perspective, the hardware is ok
[05:15:05] <unixconsole> dlg: I hate ide.. has always been lame.
[05:15:18] <dlg> ive written drivers for both the lsi hba and vmxnet controllers
[05:15:26] <unixconsole> dlg: well it runs.. just not as well as an ultra60;)
[05:15:28] <dlg> and they are both very thin
[05:15:31] <dlg> very little overhead
[05:15:41] <dlg> u60s have scsi
[05:16:06] <unixconsole> dlg: scsi and it's what.. 5-7 years old..
[05:16:19] <dlg> yeah
[05:16:28] <dlg> how long have scsi had command queuing?
[05:16:33] <dlg> s/have/has/
[05:16:38] <dlg> how long has ide had it?
[05:16:54] <dlg> how long have vendors been shipping products that can use it?
[05:17:21] <unixconsole> the costs for vmware are insane. xen, ldoms, etc. make more sense. also it doesn't really solve provisioning or configuration management issues in datacenters.
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[05:17:50] <dlg> yeah
[05:17:55] <unixconsole> the big thing I don't like about vmware so far is that it's heavy.. especially compaired to zones.
[05:18:10] <dlg> but you have to admit it is nice conceptually to abstract the hardware away from windows boxes
[05:18:41] <unixconsole> dlg: it's nice and great for desktop environments where you have to use winblow apps and do work on UNIX.
[05:19:06] <dlg> i have spare machines and ssh clients for that
[05:19:15] <unixconsole> but I don't see it being useful for databases or computational requirements.
[05:19:19] <dlg> hell no
[05:19:26] <dlg> but here we have two domains
[05:19:31] <dlg> which means four domain controllers
[05:19:35] <dlg> that sit idle ALL the time
[05:19:44] <jmcp> dlg: scsi has had command queuing since like forever .... scsi-1 iirc
[05:19:48] <unixconsole> where I work, all we have are dinky dell laptops running windows xp.. can't have a unix workstation:(
[05:19:52] <dlg> jmcp: thats exactly my point
[05:19:56] <unixconsole> so vmware is the way to go for now.
[05:19:57] <dlg> unixconsole: ouch
[05:20:00] <dlg> yeah
[05:20:20] <jmcp> dlg: been concentrating on something else for a bit
[05:20:35] <dlg> code is fun, its ok
[05:20:36] <unixconsole> dlg: it's what happens at large banks.. too much red tape.
[05:20:44] <dlg> unixconsole: true
[05:20:53] <dlg> unixconsole: you arent high up enough to bend rules slightly?
[05:21:30] <unixconsole> dlg: no.. there are evil gnomes scanning about for ppl like me. had to get an exception just to run putty.
[05:21:45] <dlg> ouch
[05:22:02] <dlg> how do you get any work done?
[05:22:20] <unixconsole> vmware pretty much fixed my issues.. just have to deal with the performance issues if I want to move files.
[05:22:36] <dlg> heh
[05:22:37] <dlg> yeah
[05:22:50] <unixconsole> dlg: very carefully and within my vmware sandbox. the rest I do by remoting into our lab.
[05:22:51] <edwardocallaghan> Any projects of getting a good GUI together for Xen and Solaris
[05:23:13] <unixconsole> that's one of the things I want to look at when spend time with xen.
[05:23:23] <unixconsole> there are several gui's out there for it.
[05:23:36] <dlg> xen is cool, but they move too fast
[05:23:36] <edwardocallaghan> All crap as far as I seen
[05:24:00] <edwardocallaghan> Xen in Solaris yet?
[05:24:01] <dlg> is there such a thing as a stable api to write against?
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[05:25:08] <unixconsole> well there are some nice things in ldoms which sol10u3 supports.. just have to wait for the ldom manager software and firmware bits to be released.
[05:25:20] <dlg> whats ldoms about?
[05:25:44] <unixconsole> xen is available for opensolaris as an addon right now. it's on the projects page.
[05:26:13] <edwardocallaghan> http://www.xensource.com/
[05:26:14] <gisburn> dlg: logical domains
[05:26:17] <richlowe> dlg: sun4v logical domains, using the hypervisor as, well, a hypervisor.
[05:26:22] <dlg> i know what its short for
[05:26:29] <dlg> ah, i see
[05:26:34] <unixconsole> ldoms are logical domains. it's what puts the v in sun4v. Basicly the niagara systems have a hypervisor that'll allow you to create full virtual machines.. even with OBP :)
[05:26:46] <unixconsole> check out my blog entries
[05:26:59] <gisburn> dlg: run linux in domain 1, run solaris in domain 2, run freebsd in domain 3, run windowsNT for SPARC in domain 4 etc.
[05:27:06] <dlg> i listened to an interview with the freebsd guy who ported to that
[05:27:11] <dlg> it was interesting
[05:27:18] <dlg> unixconsole: url
[05:27:20] <edwardocallaghan> Niagara can't vir Windows can it?
[05:27:36] <edwardocallaghan> *,
[05:27:43] <unixconsole> http://unixconsole.blogspot.com/2006/10/more-niagara-ldom-and-xen-goodies.html
[05:27:54] <gisburn> edwardocallaghan: not really... WindowsNT for SPARC was discontinued many moons ago.
[05:28:09] <unixconsole> nope.. it's just for solaris 10 and above. but you will be able to do ubuntu linux:)
[05:28:23] <dlg> "woo"
[05:28:25] <edwardocallaghan> I hate Ubuntu
[05:28:56] <unixconsole> doesn't mean you won't be able to run other distro's that support the T1 arch
[05:29:05] <dlg> true
[05:29:14] <unixconsole> the nice thing is that the hypervisor is in firmware;)
[05:29:21] <edwardocallaghan> I know I was just saying I hate Ubuntu
[05:29:36] <dlg> unixconsole: but one of the domains has to talk to the hardware
[05:29:38] <edwardocallaghan> ;) I like that too !
[05:29:43] <dlg> and provide resources to the others right?
[05:30:03] <unixconsole> with it you can virtualize cpu's, crypto, mem, networking, disks, and consoles.
[05:30:27] <dlg> and the hv arbitrates that?
[05:30:34] <dlg> or provides infrastructure for it?
[05:31:56] <dlg> ah, this is too magical to grok
[05:31:57] <unixconsole> I believe you can break out the components into different domains for virutalizing the box.
[05:31:58] <dlg> id need to read code
[05:32:47] <edwardocallaghan> I got to get me a T1
[05:32:52] <unixconsole> I think just the kernel support is in opensolaris right now. not the ldom mgt software
[05:32:59] <richlowe> $SRC/uts/sun4v/io/v* and various other bits.
[05:33:54] <edwardocallaghan> I hope the new T3 chip will have more execution cores?!
[05:33:59] <dlg> the slides talk about how the hv can allow the os access to the hardware
[05:34:09] <dlg> but if you have one disk controller
[05:34:16] <dlg> and want to run 3 operating systems
[05:34:22] <dlg> how do they share teh resource?
[05:34:42] <dlg> surely one of them does the actualy hardware talk, and the other two message it via virtual devs through the hv
[05:34:57] <unixconsole> I think the virtualization can get down to the disk level.
[05:35:15] <dlg> thats a really really heavy firmware then
[05:35:49] <unixconsole> there's probably a domain per pci controler to virtualize the devices under it.
[05:36:12] <unixconsole> well the firmware has to fit into the alom cmt space.. so it's not that big:)
[05:36:37] <dlg> unixconsole: does that mean a controller per os?
[05:36:49] <richlowe> or hg log -pr 54f1b6037d83 | nawk '/^diff/ { print $NF }', if you feel so inclined.
[05:37:53] <unixconsole> dlg: no, I think the went down the vio path like ibm did. so a vio server sits ontop of the nexus devices and virtualizes the components under it for the ldoms
[05:38:06] <dlg> ok
[05:38:07] <gisburn> arrrghhhkkkllll
[05:38:08] <gisburn> Sorry, there were some problems with your request.
[05:38:09] <dlg> that makes sense
[05:38:10] <gisburn>    1. File 2 (ksh93_integration_20061214_snapshot_i386.lsfiles) has an extension that does not match a known media type.
[05:38:12] <gisburn>    2. File 4 (ksh93_integration_20061214_snapshot_sparc.lsfiles) has an extension that does not match a known media type.
[05:38:21] <unixconsole> you can goto 32 ldoms per t1
[05:38:28] <dlg> ja
[05:38:38] <gisburn> who created this <censored by childGuardV0.8> of software ?
[05:38:52] <dlg> maybe i should try to steal a t2k from somewhere
[05:39:03] <unixconsole> so really.. with enough ram and san storage.. you could create an entire server infrastructure in a box:)
[05:39:03] <richlowe> gisburn: tack .txt on the end or something.
[05:39:38] <dlg> unixconsole: you're brave
[05:40:37] <dclarke> I'm a little out of touch here ... is there a new UltraSparc proc on the way ?
[05:40:43] <dclarke> did I miss something ?
[05:41:20] <gisburn> richlowe: some of the <censored by childGuardV0.8>-programmers are smoking too much windows. First "TML", then this.
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[05:41:33] <richlowe> dclarke: If you mean the current conversation, no, it's regarding Niagara.
[05:41:54] <dclarke> oh .. nothing new then
[05:41:56] <dclarke> okay ..
[05:42:17] <unixconsole> dlg: well if you use clustering.. remember use san storage.. you could do it:)
[05:42:36] <unixconsole> dlg: just have 2-3 t2k's and you're set;)
[05:42:36] <dlg> youd want two boxes
[05:42:39] <dlg> exactly
[05:43:00] <dlg> doesnt solve my wasted machines for windows domains though
[05:43:07] <dlg> :D :D
[05:43:36] <unixconsole> nope.. but windows is not my dept. :)
[05:43:37] <richlowe> gisburn: My understanding is that TML is Twiki's markup.  Why they chose to use it is another matter.
[05:44:28] <unixconsole> dclarke: well the next sparc64 in the apl line is around the corner. and niagara 2 is due next year.
[05:45:46] <unixconsole> I can't wait for the niagara 2's.. fp's for each core.. double the threads.. 10Gb networking.. pcie controller.. better crypto..
[05:46:18] <dlg> fp is for programmers who lack imagination
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[05:46:30] <unixconsole> hopefully larger boxes.. need more pcie slots and cpu modules.
[05:46:35] <unixconsole> and ram..
[05:47:24] <Error_404> yum, fresh pumpkin pie
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[05:47:49] <unixconsole> dlg: it's definitely not needed in a lot of cases. A lot of hpc clusters use fp co-processor boards to off-load. most general purpose fpu's are lame.
[05:48:36] <unixconsole> only thing is.. sun needs a niagara workstation:)
[05:48:51] <unixconsole> that would get developers on the bandwagon:)
[05:49:03] <Error_404> I concur
[05:49:08] <dlg> developing what?
[05:49:09] <aFlag> hello. I've installed the solaris express build 53. I've installed all the cds. But when it starts the X gave me the error: (EE) Failed to load module "xtsol" (module dos not exist, 0) (EE) Failed to load module "fbdev" (module does not exist, 0)
[05:49:16] <aFlag> do I need to install some package or something?
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[05:49:39] <Error_404> unixconsole: priced w/ a similar ratio too (ie, cheap.)
[05:50:06] <gisburn> unixconsole: I hope Sun starts to ship a niagara2-based workstation.
[05:50:18] <gisburn> unixconsole: a niagara1 workstation would be... uhm... tricky.
[05:50:49] <edwardocallaghan> unixconsole: only thing is.. sun needs a niagara workstation
[05:50:50] <unixconsole> it would help developers make their apps scale better.
[05:50:59] <edwardocallaghan> Been saying this to everyone
[05:51:10] <dlg> hrm
[05:51:31] <dlg> i always code on machines in racks
[05:51:34] <unixconsole> #1 issue for programmers when they write stuff.. they do it on a crappy pc that doesn't do smp. So when you stick it on a 25k.. it needs a lot of work.
[05:51:47] <edwardocallaghan> If no one is going to lissen I want to start my own company for them
[05:51:50] <unixconsole> dlg: I agree.
[05:51:57] <dlg> personally i think thats an education problem
[05:52:08] <dlg> how many programmers get taught to program well, let alone scalably?
[05:52:14] <unixconsole> dlg: definitely.
[05:52:54] <edwardocallaghan> I am teaching myself programing and I don't have access to a rack, only the one in my bed room
[05:53:07] <unixconsole> dlg: of course with intel and amd going down the multi-core route.. they'll have to catchup at some point. over-clocking chips is become a dead avenue.
[05:53:13] <Kitty> dlg: you are asking that question wrong
[05:53:16] <edwardocallaghan> And people think I am nuts for having a 19" in my bed room for a 19year olf
[05:53:17] <edwardocallaghan> *old
[05:53:18] <Kitty> "how many programmers get taught?"
[05:53:33] <dlg> Kitty: well, theres that
[05:53:34] <Kitty> edwardocallaghan: Ihave a 19 inch rack in my bedroom for years now
[05:53:45] <Kitty> I am going to be putting it in a room by itself soon now I have a bigger place to live
[05:53:52] <edwardocallaghan> OK that makes me feel better
[05:53:55] <unixconsole> LOL
[05:53:58] <Kitty> I am 24 tho
[05:54:00] <jmcp> Kitty: oh, *that* sort of rack
[05:54:01] <dlg> Kitty: i also think that people dont use good examples when coding
[05:54:04] * jmcp apologies
[05:54:05] <Kitty> but I was 21 when I first had a rack in my room
[05:54:08] <jmcp> apologises
[05:54:16] <Kitty> jmcp: oh, and I have that sort of rack too
[05:54:17] <dlg> Kitty: so bad code keeps perpetuating
[05:54:20] * Kitty flashes jmcp :p
[05:54:29] <Kitty> dlg: 90% of those who write code shouldn't
[05:54:32] <edwardocallaghan> I was 17 when I put it there
[05:54:38] <dlg> Kitty: you're very generous
[05:54:43] <edwardocallaghan> It's full of sh*t now
[05:55:09] <Kitty> dlg: that said, the other 9.9% should only do so under guidance
[05:55:14] <edwardocallaghan> Kitty cat, so nice
[05:55:18] <dlg> haha
[05:55:25] <unixconsole> well with how poorly programming is taught.. you can't expect much from programmers. the really good ones are the ones that don't get burnt out and code something other programmers can work with over the years.
[05:55:28] <edwardocallaghan> +0.9
[05:55:34] <edwardocallaghan> *0.09
[05:55:55] <Kitty> good programmers are worth their weight in gold
[05:55:55] <jmcp> Kitty: just don't let my wife know
[05:56:02] <Kitty> bad programmers are as much problem as their weight in shit
[05:56:05] <Kitty> jmcp: hehe
[05:56:06] <edwardocallaghan> I am trying to get some one at uni to move over to NetBeans
[05:56:16] <dlg> ugh
[05:56:19] <Kitty> urgh
[05:56:24] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[05:56:31] <unixconsole> like anything else.. there are a whole lot of losers out there.. and only a few winners.
[05:56:31] <moazamraja> yay bn :)
[05:56:32] <moazamraja> ack
[05:56:33] <moazamraja> yay nb :)
[05:56:37] <edwardocallaghan> I am still learning so I can't so much
[05:56:52] <Kitty> I don't code much these days
[05:56:54] <moazamraja> how come there is always much more talk about quality of programmers/programming than actual coding?
[05:57:03] <Kitty> which is not good
[05:57:04] <Kitty> I am losing my touch
[05:57:17] <edwardocallaghan> Program the Linux kernel, learn... become good then you're a programer ahaha
[05:57:20] <dlg> moazamraja: you're hanging around the wrong people
[05:57:20] <moazamraja> and why is that everyone who talks about quality of programmers/programming always acts like they themselves are the epitomy of excellent coding
[05:57:28] <unixconsole> I just stick to automation scripts and things like jumpstart.
[05:57:35] <Kitty> edwardocallaghan: have you seen the design flaws in the linux kernel ?
[05:57:45] <Kitty> there is more brain damage in that than you could think possible
[05:57:48] <Kitty> most of it is in drivers
[05:57:49] <Kitty> but still
[05:58:16] <Kitty> moazamraja: no idea, I am realising now that I am not the best programmer ever, so I don't code. the Wise one knows what they do not know
[05:58:18] <edwardocallaghan> Well it has 300 system calls as to BSD has 330 I think...
[05:58:20] <dlg> lunix has some deeply sick problems
[05:58:27] <unixconsole> well.. I do like how linux screws up user group membership:)
[05:58:40] <dlg> ranging from cultural to tech
[05:58:55] <moazamraja> Kitty: so if you're not the best at something, you quit?
[05:58:59] <edwardocallaghan> Linux is becoming a mess
[05:59:05] <Kitty> moazamraja: no,
[05:59:20] <edwardocallaghan> I am still learning I would like to make that point
[05:59:28] <edwardocallaghan> Please carry on...
[05:59:30] <unixconsole> news flash.. Linux has always been a mess. I started out with it back in '94 on SLS(what would become slackware).
[05:59:45] <Kitty> edwardocallaghan: the moment you consider yourself to not be lerning any more is the point you should give up
[06:00:00] <Kitty> unixconsole: see the usenet discussions between linus and tanenbaum
[06:00:01] <edwardocallaghan> Quite right!
[06:00:32] <unixconsole> yeah.. the battling of what goes into Linux is pretty funny.
[06:01:06] <unixconsole> then you throw ontop the distro makers.. and it becomes a real mess..
[06:01:27] *** alanc is now known as alanc-away
[06:01:29] <unixconsole> very little consistency between the distros.
[06:01:36] <Tpenta> gnite alanc
[06:01:42] <Kitty> wait till you look at the insides of xen
[06:01:45] <Kitty> *shudder*
[06:01:50] <alanc-away> night Tpenta
[06:02:14] * Tpenta just found an instance of gaim on snv54 assiming that tar z will work
[06:02:14] * alanc-away throws his fire bomb at sac-review and runs
[06:02:15] <Kitty> night alanc-away
[06:02:59] <Tpenta> did i see you ducking into psarc this this morning briefly?
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[06:04:23] <unixconsole> interesting thread.. http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=78360&#78360
[06:05:44] <richlowe> I wonder if he has keywords working, or if they're stevel's subtly broken ones.
[06:08:24] <syphilis> hmm, i'm not sure i like the idea of splitting some of it into /usr/bin
[06:09:36] <unixconsole> yeah. I think the gnu stuff should sit in /usr/gnu.
[06:09:45] <unixconsole> splitting stuff up would be confusing.
[06:10:10] <unixconsole> the g prefixed stuff could be symlinked to /usr/bin. but that's about it.
[06:10:44] <edwardocallaghan> So what's this about the Rock chip sun is coming out with?
[06:11:25] <unixconsole> that will replace the high-end cpu's.. like the USIV+ and the SPARC64
[06:12:10] <unixconsole> it'll be a cmt design like the niagara, but aimed at the high-end market. kinda like the difference between USIIIi and USIII
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[06:12:52] <jlc> !seen laca
[06:12:53] <Drone> laca (laca!n=laca at 192 dot 18.101.5) was last seen in #opensolaris on Tue 12 Dec 2006 04:34 GMT, saying 'okay, i'm really gone now (:'.
[06:12:59] <unixconsole> I've only read press releases on basic details. I think it'll be out in 2008.
[06:13:06] <jlc> thx drony
[06:13:15] <jlc> lol
[06:13:31] <jlc> time for bed anyways, hi and bye all
[06:13:36] <unixconsole> but sparc64 is the interim step
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[06:13:42] <unixconsole> cya
[06:14:11] <edwardocallaghan> Oh everyone is going?
[06:14:20] <edwardocallaghan> :'(
[06:14:33] <unixconsole> at me to the list too.. time for sleep:(
[06:14:38] <edwardocallaghan> Will they have a Rock Workstation?
[06:14:49] <unixconsole> doubt it..
[06:14:53] <edwardocallaghan> It's 5am here
[06:14:55] <gisburn> edwardocallaghan: noone knows.
[06:15:04] <gisburn> edwardocallaghan: not even sun.
[06:15:07] <edwardocallaghan> I wish they do
[06:15:13] <unixconsole> alright.. cya
[06:15:37] <edwardocallaghan> Need a big boost to UltraSPARC workstations...
[06:15:50] <edwardocallaghan> Night to all that are going...
[06:15:59] <edwardocallaghan> Oh is staying with me?
[06:16:14] <edwardocallaghan> Who is the troopers?
[06:16:16] <edwardocallaghan> *Who
[06:16:22] <jmcp> who *are* the troopers
[06:16:25] * jmcp pedants
[06:16:41] <jmcp> edwardocallaghan: I see your use of "is" and raise you a visit to www.angryflower.com :)
[06:16:50] <gisburn> aren't all troopers in iraq playing targets for the snipers ? =:.-)
[06:17:13] <gisburn> (ok, bad taste joke)
[06:17:16] <jmcp> very
[06:17:33] <jmcp> gisburn: did you bother to get any sleep?
[06:18:27] <gisburn> jmcp: not yet. but don't worry, I won't try to break my record of staying awake (5 days, 7 hours) this week.
[06:18:47] * jmcp shudders
[06:18:50] <jmcp> thankyou
[06:18:57] <gisburn> jmcp: for what ?
[06:19:09] <jmcp> for promising to not try to break that record
[06:19:14] <Kitty> gisburn: blimey, you do better than me, best I did was 99 hours
[06:19:15] <Kitty> erm
[06:19:18] <Kitty> 88 hours even
[06:19:21] <Kitty> off by one on the keyboard.
[06:20:01] <gisburn> prolbem is that I am getting older... and I found my first grey hair few days ago.
[06:20:14] <jmcp> awww
[06:20:15] * gisburn blames his little shell project for that
[06:20:39] <dlg> gisburn: i'll give you 20 bucks if you port ksh from openbsd to solaris
[06:20:49] <gisburn> erm
[06:20:58] <gisburn> dlg: which sense would that make ?
[06:21:19] <dlg> ctrl-w would work nicer for me
[06:21:30] <gisburn> dlg: the result would be a chimera of ksh88+extensions while the current project adds AT&T ksh93 itself to Solaris.
[06:22:17] <dlg> does ctrl-w work good in ksh93?
[06:22:54] <gisburn> which solaris version do you have ?
[06:23:35] <dlg> we have 8 here
[06:23:39] <dlg> and i have done some code on 10
[06:23:44] <gisburn> umpf
[06:23:49] <dlg> so a few different versions
[06:24:02] * gisburn only has Solarris 11/B>=51 binaries available.
[06:24:20] <aFlag> hello. I've installed the solaris express build 53. I've installed all the cds. But when it starts the X gave me the error: (EE) Failed to load module "xtsol" (module dos not exist, 0) (EE) Failed to load module "fbdev" (module does not exist, 0)
[06:24:52] <gisburn> aFlag: ask alanc about that...
[06:25:13] <gisburn> dlg: do you have solaris express around ?
[06:25:19] <aFlag> he seems away :P
[06:25:44] <dlg> gisburn: no, i dont feel comfortable running it in production so i havent invested the time in downloading it
[06:25:55] <gisburn> aFlag: try to lure him back with cookies.
[06:26:10] <gisburn> dlg: erm, Solaris 11 is for development.
[06:26:11] <aFlag> hehe
[06:26:12] <edwardocallaghan> Mate its 5:25 and I am in the UK
[06:26:23] <edwardocallaghan> My spelling is going to be bad...
[06:26:44] <gisburn> dlg: I have ksh93 binaries for Solaris 11 around which you could test directly.
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[06:27:08] <dlg> gisburn: just do this for me
[06:27:16] <dlg> go cd /var/adm/messages
[06:27:17] <edwardocallaghan> My web bowers likes cookies :D
[06:27:20] <dlg> then hit ctrl w
[06:27:26] <dlg> if you go back to the space, then ctrl-w is uncool
[06:27:36] <dlg> if it goes back to cd /var/adm/ then its awesome
[06:28:14] <edwardocallaghan> What's Ctrl+w do?
[06:28:23] <edwardocallaghan> I am use to BASH sorry
[06:28:41] <dlg> ctrl-w works in bash
[06:28:44] <dlg> it goes back a word
[06:29:04] <gisburn> dlg: deletes just up to '/'
[06:29:39] <gisburn> at least ksh93q in suse linux
[06:30:11] <dlg> gisburn: that is awesome
[06:30:23] <dlg> is that also called pdksh?
[06:30:30] <gisburn> no
[06:30:37] <gisburn> real ksh93
[06:30:53] <dlg> ok
[06:30:56] <gisburn> written by david korn&&glenn fowler
[06:31:06] <gisburn> no ursurper
[06:31:12] <dlg> which license?
[06:31:39] <edwardocallaghan> So how do I learn what this does?
[06:31:48] <edwardocallaghan> Can you give me a example please?
[06:31:49] <dlg> edwardocallaghan: press it and see what happens
[06:31:58] <edwardocallaghan> A beep
[06:32:03] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[06:32:05] <dlg> tyep two words, and then hit it
[06:32:57] <edwardocallaghan> Ah
[06:33:10] <edwardocallaghan> OK learned that trick from you musters
[06:33:18] <edwardocallaghan> Can I have another please?
[06:34:02] <g4lt-U60> sure rm -rf /
[06:34:39] <edwardocallaghan> lol
[06:34:56] <edwardocallaghan> talk /dev/null
[06:36:43] <razrX> morning
[06:36:52] <edwardocallaghan> Morning
[06:38:18] <edwardocallaghan> OK its Morning here so I'm going to sleep :p
[06:38:27] <edwardocallaghan> Thanks guys all the best
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[06:43:50] <gisburn> "Dear valued PayPal customer.... we're phishers who want to steal your money. Please emaikl your password and all your bank transaction ids to us"
[06:44:06] * gisburn wishes spammers would be forced to say the truth
[06:59:22] * jmcp concalls
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[07:07:05] <gotit> hello everybody
[07:09:07] <dwc-> spammers, marketers, and sales people?
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[07:25:42] <boyd> Has anone seen any docs on LDOMs other than the mention in the What's New docs? (or a copy of said docs)
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[07:44:31] <onbot> commit by Danek Duvall:  backout 6451790: needs more work
[07:45:02] <onbot> commit by Danek Duvall:  backout 6472892: insufficient force and/or distance
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[08:04:33] <boyd> hehe... niceh commit message, danek
[08:05:07] <Error_404> commit by Danek Duvall: backout 70043234: seriously, you think i'm putting this shit in the main tree? forget it.
[08:05:08] * boyd travels
[08:05:15] <boyd> lol
[08:06:20] 
[08:06:58] <dlg> danek sounds like an awesome guy
[08:07:35] <Error_404> seems like it's hard to sneak bad code past him though
[08:08:03] <Error_404> DAMN YOU GATEKEEPER OF O/N!
[08:08:18] <aFlag> hum, google doesn't know how to help me or I don't know how to ask :(
[08:09:44] <Error_404> google knows all
[08:09:58] <Error_404> if you can't find what you're looking for, it's your fault not googles
[08:10:06] *** Dar_HOME is now known as Dar
[08:10:14] <Error_404> didn't someone start a church of google a while back?
[08:10:31] <Error_404> omnicient + ever-present = god
[08:10:36] <aFlag> there's a church for maradona, there should one for google also
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[08:19:59] <aFlag> hum, seems like my video card is not supported by opensolaris after all
[08:21:10] <aFlag> I wonder how do I upgrade to Solaris Express experimental release branch
[08:21:42] <jmcp> brendang_: hi!
[08:21:49] <brendang_> jmcp: G'Day
[08:22:13] <Tpenta> hey brendan
[08:22:20] <brendang_> Hi Alan
[08:22:23] * Tpenta points at brendang'smailbox
[08:22:33] * Tpenta taps his foot ;)
[08:22:36] <brendang_> what's a smailbox?
[08:22:42] <brendang_> oh
[08:22:47] <brendang_> my inbox ;)
[08:22:48] <aFlag> does anyone where can I find information about that?
[08:22:51] <Error_404> aFlag: erm... you mean current? you just... hg checkout & build it
[08:22:56] <Tpenta> yes
[08:23:09] <brendang_> oops
[08:23:18] <Tpenta> :d)
[08:23:21] <brendang_> Sorry Alan - I'm at Sep 19th and moving forward
[08:23:22] <Tpenta> :-D i mean
[08:23:32] <aFlag> I don't know, someone in a forum said he had the same problem as I did, so some guy answered he should use xsun or move to solaris express experimental release branch
[08:23:35] * brendang_ is 2+ months behind on email
[08:23:55] <Tpenta> can you possibly jump forward a little looking for mine?
[08:24:08] <Error_404> aFlag: which card?
[08:24:35] <aFlag> i815
[08:25:02] <Error_404> is "works for me" a real response?
[08:25:12] <Error_404> because xorg supports that iirc
[08:25:21] <Error_404> no DRM, but it's supported in 2d mode
[08:25:22] <brendang_> Tpenta: yep - I meant to reply straight away, but, er, ..
[08:25:34] <Tpenta> :)
[08:25:47] <aFlag> Error_404: yeah, I used to have it working on netbsd
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[08:26:03] <aFlag> but there seems to be some issue with /dev/agpgart
[08:27:22] <aFlag> Error_404: do you use solaris express build 53?
[08:27:54] <Error_404> I've used every odd-numbered build since 25 or so
[08:28:05] <Error_404> no reason why odd numbered, by the way
[08:28:27] <Error_404> it just works out that i update every other build & i started w/ an odd number
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[08:28:45] <aFlag> and it always worked?
[08:29:04] <Error_404> i have a 915, but it's the same driver
[08:29:32] <aFlag> hum, it does load i810 module
[08:31:06] <aFlag> but it eventually says:
[08:31:07] <aFlag> (EE) GARTInit: Unable to open /dev/agpgart (Resource temporararily unavailable)
[08:31:07] <aFlag> (EE) I810(0): AGP GART support is not available. Make sure your kernel has agpgart support or that the agpgart kernel module is loaded.
[08:32:41] <aFlag> I'm not sure what exactly is that agpgart device
[08:36:25] <Error_404> it's the agp driver... not sure why it's not working for you
[08:36:31] <Error_404> *shrug* again, worksforme
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[08:46:30] <aFlag> yeah :(
[08:46:31] <aFlag> gotta go. bye
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[10:16:09] <timeless> hi alanc
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[10:34:08] <raph_ael> hello
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[10:38:32] * timeless chuckles
[10:39:02] <timeless> my file system capacity dropped from 50TB to 16TB according to boaba (sp?) because i destroyed a bunch of zfs volumes :)
[10:40:41] <Doc> sucks to be you
[10:42:31] <timeless> nah, the app sucks :)
[10:42:54] <andersmo> the app doesn't expect file systems to share space? =)
[10:43:21] <timeless> of course not :)
[10:43:24] <andersmo> Until quite recently it _was_ a fair assumption to make. =)
[10:43:27] <timeless> it's never heard of nfs either
[10:43:31] <timeless> um, no
[10:43:38] <timeless> or afs
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[10:43:48] <timeless> probably never heard of cifs
[10:44:09] <andersmo> (unless you count out network based file systems)
[10:44:32] <timeless> well, the app is fairly stupid :)
[10:44:39] <andersmo> how do you handle it perfectly for all such instances? =)
[10:44:47] <timeless> not my problem? :)
[10:52:36] <loke> timeless: well, lofs has been around for ages
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[11:16:55] <timeless> loke: i know
[11:17:02] <timeless> these apps don't deal w/ that either :)
[11:17:08] <loke> :-)
[11:17:17] <loke> what is boaba btw? :-)
[11:17:24] <timeless> do you have JDS?
[11:17:41] <loke> not as primary desktop, no
[11:17:45] <timeless> gnome>all applications>system tools>disk usage analyzer
[11:17:52] <loke> aha
[11:17:59] <timeless> i misspelled it
[11:18:02] <timeless> it's Baobab
[11:18:02] <loke> it's a gnome app, it's crap
[11:18:03] <timeless> whatever
[11:18:12] <timeless> yeah well
[11:18:17] <timeless> sun ships it as a default
[11:18:30] <loke> well :-)
[11:18:32] * timeless rumages through hat been for the end user hat
[11:18:35] <loke> doesn't make it good :-)
[11:18:54] * timeless dons it
[11:19:01] <timeless> "it should work correctly"
[11:19:10] * timeless replaces the hat in the hat bin
[11:19:37] * timeless rgtumbles
[11:20:06] <timeless> gnome-system-monitor  is using 10% of a "cpu" and firefox-bin is only using 6%
[11:20:17] * timeless really doesn't like gtk (espcially gnome) apps
[11:21:48] <timeless> speaking of bugs
[11:22:01] * timeless wonders if it's known that infonotes in ff2 don't size correctly in snv_53
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[11:49:08] <cmihai> Hm... vermillion_55 seems to have fixed the Workspace switcher blackening issue I had in svn_53
[11:49:11] <cmihai> Cool :)
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[12:21:54] <Stric> Hm. Is there any "given pid X started by smf somehow, which service is it?" ?
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[12:41:44] <Doc> programatically, or just once?
[12:42:18] <Doc> svcs -p and just look for the PID will do it.  you could script it with bugger all effort
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[12:43:49] <Doc> svcs -p | awk ' /^o/ {S=$3} $2=="27329" { print S } '
[12:43:56] <Doc> that will tell you what service PID 27329 is
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[13:39:15] <gotit> wats the diff between open solaris and solaris
[13:40:08] <dlg> about 4 letters
[13:40:19] <dlg> or...
[13:40:21] <gotit> :-)
[13:40:28] <dlg> ones some bits of source code
[13:40:31] <dlg> and one is an operating system
[13:41:00] <gotit> which one is the source code
[13:41:07] <dlg> opensolaris
[13:41:34] <frankho> sun rips all the best results out of the hands of the opensolaris developers, compiles it, slaps a bit of proprietary stuff on top of it, puts it into a shiny box with a 'Sun' sticker on it - and calls the result "Solaris"
[13:41:36] <gotit> so if I get the source code how do i run it?
[13:42:11] <gotit> aah it mean I can't get opensolaris
[13:42:12] <frankho> you mean like 'create your own opensolaris distro from scratch' ?
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[13:42:33] <gotit> ofcourse not frankho
[13:42:36] <frankho> you can get opensolaris, pure, no non-open stuff
[13:43:02] <frankho> that'd be schillix, nexenta, belenix - they started from scratch, with the opensolaris bits only
[13:43:31] <gotit> non-open??
[13:43:43] <frankho> non-open what ?
[13:44:06] <gotit> what is non-open :)
[13:44:36] <frankho> what you cannot get the sourcecode for. Things available only in binary form
[13:44:45] <frankho> like, say, a proprietary device driver
[13:45:02] <dlg> which are all the cool ones
[13:45:11] <frankho> :)
[13:45:32] <dlg> because of that, opensolaris is dissapointing to me
[13:45:39] <gotit> how could the device drives be cool :)
[13:45:53] <frankho> I'd like a broadcom wireless driver
[13:46:01] <dlg> gotit: i write them for fun
[13:46:16] <dlg> frankho: theres the start of one in openbsd
[13:46:24] <dlg> its going to be slow because of how insane the hardware is
[13:46:34] <frankho> are the specs out ?
[13:46:37] <dlg> nope
[13:47:58] <frankho> that's the sad thing, too often these days. noone writes/publishes hardware specs anymore
[13:48:15] <jteo> everyone else cept the Americans do. ;)
[13:48:41] <gotit> so for a new shifter from windows opensolaris is not a good choice solaris will be cool right?
[13:48:42] <dlg> jteo: americans are a large chunk of the vendors
[13:48:44] <dlg> it sucks
[13:49:11] <frankho> gotit: depends on what you expect from it and more important what you want to do with it
[13:49:54] <gotit> i want to learn it , i have just heard the name that its UNIX
[13:50:18] <lasseoe> get Solaris 10 then
[13:50:50] <gotit> where is the UNIX System V , i have heard a lot about it too
[13:51:22] <gotit> lasseoe: is it GUI?
[13:52:01] <tomww> gotit: How To Build OpenSolaris e.g. http://www.blastwave.org/articles/BLS-0050/index.html
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[13:56:14] <frankho> gotit: UNIX System V is the base of Solaris (and its sourcecode the base of the opensolaris sources). It was a joint development of AT&T's UNIX labs and Sun Microsystems, back in 1990 or so
[13:56:46] <frankho> the UNIX specifications date from then (but have of course evolved a lot since - latest is UNIX 2003)
[13:57:25] <frankho> not GUI, though.
[13:58:05] <frankho> classical UNIX is 'bare iron', command line interfaces - that's what the specs cover.
[13:58:30] <gotit> that would be cool
[13:58:33] <frankho> Solaris 10, Solaris Xpress and the other opensolaris-based distros bring a Gnome GUI, though.
[13:59:06] <gotit> distros, here we get distros too, thats not fair
[13:59:36] <frankho> well, you have to start with something
[14:00:13] <gotit> I already orderd Solaris 10,
[14:00:14] <frankho> once solaris in some form or the other is on your machine, putting your self-compiled modified opensolaris build on top of it is trivial
[14:00:53] <frankho> "BFU" - see the devel guide, you build opensolaris, call 'bfu /path-to-build-results/archives' and there you are
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[14:23:44] <jteo> the spam on zfs-discuss is irritating.
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[14:38:37] <asyd> boyd: ?
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[14:57:08] * quasi groans at sun downloads dropping in speed from 2M -> 12k
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[15:35:09] <edwardocallaghan> Hi
[15:36:00] <edwardocallaghan> Can you use first gen SATA controllers with SATA disks around today?
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[15:36:30] <edp> sata2 is generally backwards compatible with original sata
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[15:38:11] <edwardocallaghan> Oh ok thanks
[15:38:31] <edwardocallaghan> I got this new Segate and I can't hear it spin up?
[15:38:46] <edwardocallaghan> A bit worryed
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[15:47:03] <edwardocallaghan> Sorry back
[15:50:18] <cmihai> Ugh.. any of you guys worked with an HP text terminal?
[15:50:42] <cmihai> Bloody thing turned black and all it's showing is PRNT:NONE 1,1. Can't reset the damn thing
[15:50:53] <raph_ael> hp/ux ?
[15:51:19] <cmihai> Yeah, but that isn't the issue.
[15:51:30] <cmihai> The external "HP Text Terminal" emulator is the problem.
[15:51:54] <cmihai> It entered some weird mode and I can't get it back to it's original state
[15:52:55] <edp> edwardocallaghan, a lot of newer drives are very quiet and you may not be able to hear it if you have the case on
[15:53:25] <cmihai> http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-C1099A-Console-Terminal-for-HP9000-Unix-Servers-POS_W0QQitemZ260060507395QQcmdZViewItem - it's one of theese things
[15:55:45] <edwardocallaghan> I am listening to the disk
[15:56:16] <edwardocallaghan> I think it does spin up but the MB does not see it ?
[15:56:40] <edwardocallaghan> Although the MB has some stuff gimmick BIOS
[15:56:47] <edwardocallaghan> *stupid
[15:58:02] <lasseoe> does your SATA controller even work with Solaris?
[16:00:24] <edwardocallaghan> I don't know I am trying to get it to work before the OS loads :/
[16:00:43] <edwardocallaghan> Don't tell me they sent me a bloody broken disk
[16:01:30] <edwardocallaghan> ATA is shit, I wish I had some cash, I'll get some SAS disks
[16:03:50] <edwardocallaghan> www.scan.co.uk are bad people to deal with
[16:04:15] <edwardocallaghan> I should have not ordered from them
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[16:05:18] <whaq> he's not even in Solaris yet..
[16:05:47] <cmihai> Well, that was fun. 10 seconds on the D key resetted the thing
[16:07:44] <edwardocallaghan> I am trying to see the disk in this stupid BIOS
[16:08:02] <whaq> edwardocallaghan, does it vibrate? get warm after 2+ minutes?
[16:08:23] <edwardocallaghan> It one of them gamer freak gimmick BIOS's...
[16:08:49] <edwardocallaghan> The motor at the spindel is not warm
[16:09:13] <edwardocallaghan> Ah the disk is fucked I think
[16:09:27] <whaq> does the drive have 2 power connectors? (pata & sata style)
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[16:09:39] <edwardocallaghan> It's a Segate Barracuda
[16:09:48] <edwardocallaghan> No its pure SATA
[16:10:01] <whaq> ah k
[16:10:14] <whaq> try a different power cable. if it doesn't work, it's f'ed.
[16:10:51] <edwardocallaghan> http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=345219
[16:11:14] <edwardocallaghan> SATA300
[16:11:32] <edwardocallaghan> Will that work with older controllers ?
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[16:11:45] <whaq> i just saw my raidz sustained 190MB/sec. I'm a zfs zealot now.
[16:12:12] <whaq> what do you ean older controller? in theory sata-ii is backward compatible.
[16:12:33] <jbk> heh.. zfs won me over once i saw the admin interface :)
[16:12:36] <whaq> try turning off NCQ in your BIOS.
[16:12:45] <AbeFroman> i had to create a metadevice+ufs the other day
[16:12:47] <AbeFroman> zfs has spoiled me
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[16:13:14] <jbk> after years of license key hell, vxpleasefingwork, etc.
[16:13:21] <whaq> jbk, which interface is that? I've been using CLI (and still looking for  med\advanced samples\tutorials..)
[16:13:26] <jbk> the cli
[16:13:35] <whaq> lol
[16:13:42] <edwardocallaghan> NCQ what the 'dell' is that?
[16:14:03] <jbk> carving up a few hundred luns totalling a tb with svm or veritas is just painful
[16:14:19] <jbk> and the way we do things just makes it worse
[16:14:34] <whaq> edwardocallaghan, native command queueing. Sata-ii -only feature. may conflict w/ some bios.
[16:14:48] <jbk> since it's san fabric, veritas uses enclosure names, which have no discernable mapping between instance# and lun#
[16:15:11] <jbk> but we try to be careful about what luns do what
[16:15:12] <whaq> edwardocallaghan, mobo has latest firmware? if it doesn't have ncq option, check for other sata\pata options..
[16:15:39] <jbk> so i have to do all this mapping to put the right devices into the right disk groups, label all those devices
[16:15:42] <edwardocallaghan> It has no options at all
[16:16:01] <jbk> fight with veritas when the vxconfigd gets confused
[16:16:10] <jbk> etc
[16:16:18] <whaq> jbk, ouch. how do you keep the administration\note-taking for all those info?
[16:16:21] <hile_> jbk: i find it not too difficult.. i only allocate the LUNs I want for a given diskgroup at a time :)
[16:16:23] <edwardocallaghan> Its a stupid gimmick BIOS for gamers with overclock your P4 options
[16:16:34] <jbk> we have a separate storage group
[16:16:37] <asyd> s 9
[16:16:37] <asyd> oups
[16:16:41] <jbk> so you'll get all 50-100 luns at once
[16:17:01] <edwardocallaghan> And ofcoruse broken ACPI
[16:17:29] <hile_> so do we
[16:17:48] <whaq> edwardocallaghan, switch mobo. I bought a MSI K9N, working out great so far.
[16:18:02] <hile_> our storage group tells the OS admins, "your LUNs allocated for foo are emcpowerN....emcpowerNN"
[16:18:19] <jbk> so i have to take the output of vxdisk -e list, generate a nice table of dm name vs lun, sort by lun, then add another column to match up the disk group, then take that and use it to call vxdg init
[16:18:24] <jbk> we use dmp
[16:18:45] <whaq> lol
[16:18:49] <jbk> so we just see EMCXX_nn or CLARiiONXX_nn
[16:18:58] <jbk> and the numbers have no relationship with the actual lun number
[16:19:21] <edwardocallaghan> Gigabyte and they are normally good
[16:19:24] <whaq> and these are supposed to be state of the art equipment ;)
[16:19:36] <edwardocallaghan> Next time I'll stick to a Tyan
[16:19:48] <whaq> tyan and supermicros
[16:20:54] <bengtf> whaq: have you had any problems with the k9n ?,
[16:21:22] <whaq> bengtf, no. Should I?
[16:21:49] <whaq> k9n sli4 platinum iirc. it's for home use..
[16:21:54] <asyd> .s 3
[16:22:03] <bengtf> I have a k9n diamond and the drams are not working properly when I upgraded to snv-53
[16:22:05] <edwardocallaghan> How can one get OpenBoot on a PC MB?
[16:22:14] <whaq> i'm on snv-52
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[16:23:00] <whaq> i put a pair of twinmos 1gb on mine, and left everything on default. didn't overclock or tweak anything.
[16:23:03] <Kronuz> hello
[16:23:08] <bengtf> think my ram went bad ... havent had time to check, getting alot of program aborted when running java
[16:23:09] <whaq> hi kronuz
[16:23:17] <Kronuz> :)
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[16:24:04] <Kronuz> hey, when it goes for speed, what's faster, 15 drives in RAID5 or the same 15 in RAID10 ?
[16:24:11] <Kronuz> (for databases)
[16:24:14] <whaq> bengtf, have you ran memtest86 on it?
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[16:24:36] <bengtf> nope , is that in solaris ?
[16:24:41] <jteo> Kronuz: depends on your workload
[16:24:56] <whaq> bengtf, no.. lemme get url
[16:25:07] <Kronuz> I was wondering, 'cause with RAID5, you'd have 14 drives working as a strip, and in RAID10 you'd have only about 7
[16:25:45] <Kronuz> so I figured RAID5 could be faster there...
[16:26:06] <Kronuz> jteo: it would be for a database environment
[16:26:30] <Kronuz> (many small scattered accesses)
[16:26:32] <whaq> bengtf, www.ultimatebootcd.com. run the memory test suite on it.
[16:26:57] <jteo> Kronuz: offhand, i'll prefer the RAID10
[16:27:17] <whaq> with that many drives, i'd consider raidz2
[16:27:30] <jteo> whaq: why?
[16:28:12] <edwardocallaghan> I am going off to make sure this disk is gone before I try sending it back
[16:28:31] <whaq> jteo - good balance of redundancy and spaec efficiency
[16:28:38] <Kronuz> that's what I first thought... but with 14 drives working together I just figured having RAID1 there would make things slower than "simply" calculating the parity data
[16:28:49] <jteo> whaq: mmm. i tend to be wrong so i like benchmarks.
[16:28:54] <jteo> :)
[16:29:40] <bengtf> whaq: thanks will try that this evening
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[16:30:13] <Kronuz> is it that parity stuff really that slow in RAID5? compared to just writing as in RAID1, even if in RAID1 you lose hald the drives... that's the dilemma
[16:30:32] <Kronuz> s/hald/half
[16:31:07] <edwardocallaghan> Be back shortly while I though my hard disks at people in the street
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[16:32:30] <whaq> jteo :)
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[16:33:45] <whaq> bengtf,  yeah you can use the different tests to zero-in on the problem. there's searate test suites for cpu, memory and storage. not sure of mobo.
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[16:35:26] <bougie> hello :)
[16:35:35] <bengtf> whaq: Im getting really weird error reports when my java program stops ... program connection broken ..., sometimes with a core dump sometimes with a reboot
[16:36:05] <whaq> hey bougie
[16:36:57] <whaq> bengtf, i'm a solaris newbie. never seen anthing like that before..
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[16:48:41] <cmihai> What would make a system stop accepting serial console connections?
[16:49:16] <cmihai> I just tried my console on another system and it works... and tried a laptop tip/cu on this, and it's simply not responding ;\
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[16:53:09] <whaq> cmihai - what system?
[16:54:38] <cmihai> HP-UX
[16:54:43] <cmihai> HP9000
[16:55:26] <cmihai> It's a rp5470. All worked fine until this morning, the serial console woldn't work anymore. And I can't figure out why...
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[16:59:57] <whaq> system diagnostic? terminal test & settings from console?
[17:00:15] <edp> is there going to be an x4500 with the "M2" designation anytime in the near future?
[17:00:35] <cmihai> All looks fine.
[17:02:48] <richlowe> stevel: is sch using your keyword stuff, or does he have stuff that works?
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[17:03:15] <stevel> richlowe: i don't think so; afaik, no one is using my keyword stuff
[17:03:17] <stevel> why?
[17:03:32] <richlowe> stevel: because his /usr/gnu drafts have $Hg$ headers.
[17:03:39] <richlowe> stevel: and if he has working stuff, I want to see it? :)
[17:03:44] <richlowe> (expanded $Hg$ headers, that is)
[17:03:52] <stevel> interesting, those may be placeholders; you should ask
[17:03:59] <stevel> afaik, i didn't think he had them working
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[17:18:05] <whaq> hm.. in snv-52, the samba vfs modules are put in the wrong directory (/usr/sfw/lib) should be /usr/sfw/lib/vfs..
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[17:39:33] <edp> whaq, as a workaround i think you can specify the full path for the vfs modules in smb.conf
[17:39:39] <timeless> supposing i was foolish enough to need 'git'
[17:39:48] <timeless> (the thing that isn't as good as hg)
[17:39:53] <timeless> anyone know where to get it?
[17:40:38] <whaq> edp, ok. I just made the vfs directory and copied the files (I thought to be) vfs modules in it
[17:40:53] <whaq> edp, i just need the recycle module at this point. It's quite handy.
[17:41:37] <edp> i've been working on a shadow copy vfs module that works very well with zfs snapshots
[17:42:21] <whaq> cool. is it available for us to try?
[17:42:38] <jteo> shadow copy?
[17:42:59] <edp> i can post it to my site.. it's fully functional but i've been doing some cleanups before i send it to the samba lists
[17:43:02] <whaq> yesh
[17:43:39] <edp> http://www.petri.co.il/how_to_use_the_shadow_copy_client.htm
[17:43:49] <edp> that's a quick overview of what shadow copy gets you
[17:44:04] <jteo> edp: thanks.
[17:44:15] <whaq> edp, thanks.
[17:44:19] <edp> i'd wanted to use it for years but didn't actually have an os/filesystem that could provide decent snapshots
[17:44:42] <whaq> has ms shadow copy been around that long?
[17:44:52] <edp> it's included in 2003 server
[17:45:02] <edp> and the shadow copy client is available as a free download for XP
[17:45:43] <whaq> ah ok.
[17:45:51] <whaq> Btw, is there anything similar for osx users?
[17:45:54] <jteo> edp: ah. understood.
[17:46:56] <Stric> whaq: I think 10.5 will include something similar
[17:47:19] <whaq> Stric, the time machine thingy, is it?
[17:47:24] <Stric> yeah
[17:47:40] <whaq> I don't think it has a server-side component though.
[17:47:42] <Stric> (haven't looked close on either of them, but the general concept seems similar)
[17:48:17] <whaq> lots of noise on their inteface.. kinea cute.
[17:49:25] <whaq> i'm learning zfsfs snapshot.. what is the .zfs/snapshot-name directory for? they seem to only show newly-added files, but not deleted ones..
[17:49:59] <edp> that's where the snapshots are made available to access
[17:50:37] <edp> should contain everything at the time the snapshot was taken in .zfs/snapshot/name
[17:51:00] <whaq> edp, they're empty on mine..?
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[17:52:10] <edp> not sure.. i've never had any problems with them
[17:52:37] <whaq> edp, d'oh my bad. I'm a <100 IQ. Just realized my mistake.
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[17:55:04] <edp> whaq, i'll post a link to that shadow copy patch to samba in a couple hours
[17:55:14] <edp> i need to finish the cleanups and test it out
[17:55:48] <timeless> edp: enabling the shadow copy ui to work w/ zfs?
[17:55:53] <edp> yes
[17:56:18] <edp> it will actually work with the existing shadow copy vfs module but it's a PITA and doesn't work as well
[17:56:20] * timeless still needs to find git for solaris :(
[17:57:15] <edp> without the patch you need to create symlinks for each snapshot into the root of the fs and the entries in the shadow copy ui aren't properly sorted by date
[17:59:25] <edp> time for lunch, bbl
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[18:14:12] <whaq> edp, cool. sorry was afk.
[18:14:41] <whaq> timeless, what's git?
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[18:35:10] <jamesd> http://uadmin.blogspot.com/2006/12/is-linus-tired.html  <-- how to piss off and scare the linux community with two simple statements.
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[18:37:10] <loke> any SMF knowleable people here? I'd like to know exactly what smcboot does, and why I have three of them in my zone...
[18:37:37] <loke> or is smcboot part of something else=
[18:37:56] <AbeFroman> it's the solaris management console
[18:37:57] <jamesd> loke, not sure its going to be helpful but blastwave.org/smf has lots of links to smf documentation.
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[18:41:39] <whaq> ZFS question: If I have /pool/fs/directory, and I want to 'promote' or split the directory into its own (zfs)filesystem, how can I do that?
[18:44:09] <jamesd> if its a filesystem you can mount it anywhere you like using   zfs set mountpoint=blah  poolname/fs
[18:46:40] <whaq> jamesd, it's a directory inside a zfs filesystem. I'd like it to stand alone on its own filesystem.
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[18:47:30] <jamesd> whaq, create a new filesystem.. copy the data.. and change its mount point
[18:47:35] <whaq> The manual way (I'd imagine) is to do a zfs create on the new filesystem, and copy\move the contents of the old directory.
[18:47:48] <whaq> ah, okay.
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[18:50:11] <jamesd> whaq, the zfs way is to consider changiing every  mkdir  to be  zfs create  commands..
[18:54:04] <myrkraverk> jamesd: you could always alias mkdir to be that ;)
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[18:54:47] <myrkraverk> I am having trouble fdisking my usb disk - solaris seems to be unable to figure out its geometry - any tips?
[18:54:58] <jamesd> myrkraverk, yes true, but its only a good idea to consider it, but necessary do it each time
[18:56:26] <myrkraverk> ;)
[18:57:12] <myrkraverk> however, it seems to be a good idea to have a shortcut, like zc or something ;)
[18:58:25] <tomww> whow - my nv49 connects via SUNWuacm-i386-1122 to the Nokia E61 :-)
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[19:02:27] <stevel> much better
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[19:02:34] <onbot> commit by Shantkumar Hiremath:  6428685 RC Channel opened after ibt_recycle_rc succeed free_channel, without close_channel; 6434915 ibt_close_rc_channel incorrectly blocks in interrupt context; 6479638 Add redirect support to SAA
[19:02:53] *** stevel changes topic to "Latest builds: SXCR: 53 | ON build: 54"
[19:03:04] <onbot> commit by Gavin Maltby:  6498264 mc-amd panic on boot/install on socket 754 with dimm in 3rd slot; 6504058 dimm topo instance numbers not correct in some cases
[19:03:04] <onbot> commit by Justin Frank:  6487057 Solaris 10 6/06:Sun Fire V490: " /usr/sbin/locator -n" command does not work
[19:03:18] <stevel> fscking automounter
[19:03:39] <richlowe> hah.
[19:04:49] <whaq> jamesdj\, noted. thanks ;)
[19:04:52] <alanc> that'll make gisburn's day:  CR 6504720 Created P5 opensolaris/triage-queue /bin/sh is too antequated to be considered a "normal" shell
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[19:22:22] <|tsoome|> wtf is going on with sun.com?! we have ordered an x4100 for a client in october and sun.com is even unable to give delivery date so far....
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[19:23:15] <quasi> |tsoome|: I've gotten a good pile of x4100s since october ;)
[19:23:44] <tsoome> good for you:)
[19:23:56] <edp> you could alwasy just do a try and buy.. they show up in around 2 weeks
[19:24:03] <quasi> tsoome: but last I checked, it was easier to get the new x4100M2 rather than the old x4100
[19:24:12] <tsoome> it was M2!
[19:24:35] <quasi> you might have been too early then
[19:24:48] <tsoome> we have asked to give us *any* 4100, and nothing so far
[19:25:17] <tsoome> fucking dns and sun.fi:(
[19:26:49] <tsoome> it seems we have only option to order an alternative from hp, they at least are able to ship....
[19:31:18] <quasi> tsoome: ah, that far north ... perhaps the sled broke down ;)
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[19:31:32] <tsoome> :D
[19:33:39] * quasi was on an amd/sun studytour last week - I gave the sun reps hell about how hard it is to buy their gear
[19:35:14] <sommerfeld> I get the sense that the whole "ROHS" thing has been wreaking havoc all over the place.
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[19:38:42] <moazamraja> just the ROHS training is a frickin hassle and a half
[19:38:58] <moazamraja> quasi: did they listen? did they give 2 shits? you know...I doubt it.
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[20:10:25] <pikapika> hello
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[20:43:47] <whaq> hi
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[20:54:30] <Kronuz> hey, I just have a question about switches I hope someone could help me with... what are the SPF slots for in switches?
[20:55:36] <syphilis> on the linecards
[20:55:59] <syphilis> oh, what are they for
[20:56:04] <onbot> commit by hyw:  6494827 OPL dtrace_blksuword32() needs to do a flush; 6500554 RED state caused by an urgent error
[20:56:04] <onbot> commit by Mark Maybee:  6493634 zvol should return ENOTSUP on DKIOCGVTOC ioctl; 6496365 assertion failed: refcount_count(&tx->tx_space_written) + delta <= tx->tx_space_towrite
[20:56:09] <syphilis> they're for connecting SFP transceivers to, for fibre ethernet
[20:56:34] <sommerfeld> Krunuz: what sort of switches?
[20:56:47] <Kronuz> syphilis: so it's like for connecting a fiber switch?
[20:56:48] <syphilis> (i guess you mean SFP, not SPF)
[20:56:56] <syphilis> kronuz: your switch _is_ a fibre switch if it has SFP slots
[20:57:06] <Kronuz> SFP, right, it's SFP
[20:57:09] <sommerfeld> could be ethernet-over-fiber or fiberchannel (scsi-over-fiber)
[20:57:10] <syphilis> SFP is a fibre ethernet port, basically
[20:57:19] <syphilis> yeah, could be FC .. i only know ethernet
[20:57:42] <Kronuz> http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/pwcnt_2724?c=us&l=en&s=biz&cs=555
[20:57:47] <Kronuz> look, I saw it there
[20:58:01] <Kronuz> "it has two SFP slots in a combo port arrangement"
[20:58:08] <syphilis> kronuz: often SFP is required by the upstream
[20:58:14] <syphilis> well, fibre, not sfp
[20:58:24] <syphilis> but you need sfp or gbic to connect fibre :)
[20:58:29] <Kronuz> I'm all confused :(
[20:58:38] <sommerfeld> Kronuz: ah.
[20:58:41] <syphilis> kronuz: do you remember AUI ethernet ports?
[20:58:44] <Kronuz> does that mean those are ports to connect fiber?
[20:58:49] <syphilis> yes, they are
[20:58:56] <syphilis> you plug in an SFP transceiver
[20:58:57] <sommerfeld> so, the deal here is that the optics are generally sold separately
[20:59:02] <syphilis> which the fibre plugs into
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[20:59:17] <syphilis> there are many different types of fibre connector
[20:59:28] <Kronuz> what's a transceiver, like a switch?
[20:59:28] <syphilis> instead of support every one on the switch, you buy an SFP transceiver with the right plug
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[20:59:31] <sommerfeld> right, there's an electrical connection at the back of the SFP and typically an LC fiber connection at the front
[20:59:40] <syphilis> a transceiver is a small device that converts the SFP slot to the right sort of fibre plug
[20:59:41] <sommerfeld> and you can get different types of optics depending on the length of the fiber
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[21:00:13] <Kronuz> oh
[21:00:31] <sommerfeld> i.e., is it tens/hundreds of meters, or multiple km
[21:00:38] <syphilis> kronuz: there used to be common a form of ethernet connector called AUI.  by connecting the right transeiver (convertor), you could plug both coax and rj-45 ethernet into an AUI connector
[21:00:47] <syphilis> kronuz: SFP and GBIC are the same thing for the different types of fibre connector
[21:01:02] <Kronuz> I understand now
[21:01:18] <sommerfeld> GBIC is bigger (typically has an duplex SC connection on the optics side)
[21:01:30] <Kronuz> so, let's say I want to connect stuff there in those ports, I'd need the transiver depending on the type of fiber I'm using
[21:01:35] <syphilis> yes
[21:02:12] <sommerfeld> But if you don't need fiber you can use the same logical switch ports via the copper RJ45 connector
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[21:02:41] <syphilis> yeah, usually each SFP port disables a copper port if you use it
[21:02:45] <Kronuz> when would one use fiber? just for the length?
[21:02:46] <setuid>  Hi My firend has troubles with SX b50 installation
[21:03:12] <syphilis> kronuz: fibre is common for interconnections.. all our of internet provides require fibre
[21:03:13] <setuid> Instalation just freeze in 24% or 19% or 21%
[21:03:16] <syphilis> providers
[21:03:30] <sommerfeld> Kronuz: length, or electrical isolation (i.e., different buildings have different ground potentials)
[21:03:44] <setuid> and after successfull instalation
[21:03:53] <setuid> it wrote BAD
[21:03:54] <Kronuz> sommerfeld: that's what I thought... I was thinking of lightnings too
[21:04:05] <setuid> it didn't boott
[21:04:06] <setuid> boot
[21:04:19] <sommerfeld> Kronuz: yah, that too.
[21:04:27] <setuid> does anybody have some tips?
[21:04:40] <setuid> hdd is sagate
[21:04:45] <syphilis> fibre is also used for FC ;-)
[21:04:49] <setuid> 20GB
[21:06:57] <setuid> for 10 times it just freezed in instalation
[21:06:59] <setuid> and once
[21:07:07] <setuid> when it was successful
[21:07:20] <setuid> boot failed with output
[21:07:24] <setuid> BAD ...
[21:07:35] <setuid> maybe bad signature
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[21:07:44] <setuid> he didn't say
[21:07:47] <setuid> it
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[21:30:33] <syphilis> Kronuz: fwiw, if you want a managed switch, don't bother with web based ;-)
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[22:17:26] <quasi> moazamraja: yes, they did listen and they even explained part of why things are like they are now
[22:18:05] <moazamraja> quasi: i'm skeptical. :/
[22:18:32] <moazamraja> having worked inside Sun, I've dealt with the sales force and was quite shocked by them.
[22:18:37] <quasi> moazamraja: maybe they listen more because I literally buy hundreds of their x86 boxes
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[22:19:37] <moazamraja> ah, yeah, they'll listen to big customers
[22:19:43] <quasi> moazamraja: part of it I think is that they have to learn not to think of $795 systems as if they were the usual expensive sparc gear
[22:19:44] <moazamraja> but they still make it a pain for small customers to buy
[22:19:59] <quasi> yes, and that's what I gave them hell about
[22:20:26] <quasi> they need to learn to sell the small gear like amazon sells books more or less
[22:20:58] <syphilis> hmm, we didn't havea problem getting a quote for a small number of machines (in EU though)
[22:20:59] <quasi> and then buying those systems is quite a bit easier in .us than outside
[22:21:11] <coffman> where do i find messages that get droped on the console on boot time? /var/adm/messages should hold them right?
[22:21:14] <quasi> syphilis: I'm in .eu also
[22:23:20] <boyd> asyd: ?
[22:23:28] <boyd> Morning, all
[22:24:07] <moazamraja> sun sales need to learn *something* about their own software stack
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[22:24:53] <dho> hey
[22:24:56] <moazamraja> webserver, appserver, mail, etc
[22:25:37] <syphilis> so are these S10 patches for TX safe to apply?
[22:26:44] * AbeFroman anxiously awaits 118855-33
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[22:28:27] <lloy0076> Is OpenSolaris able to recognise Intel Core 2 Duos (Dual Cores) as having two cores?
[22:28:30] <lloy0076> I see no reason why not...
[22:29:27] <boyd> moazamraja: ?
[22:29:34] <moazamraja> boyd: ?
[22:29:45] <boyd> moazamraja: oops...
[22:29:46] <moazamraja> wow...same exact amount of chars!
[22:29:53] <boyd> :)
[22:29:57] <boyd> syphilis: ?
[22:30:22] <syphilis> boyd: i heard rumours they might break stuff
[22:30:31] <boyd> moazamraja: Yes, strange that putting the same two names in a different order has the same length :)
[22:30:43] <boyd> syphilis: You mean installing TX?
[22:30:56] <syphilis> boyd: the TX patches
[22:31:08] <boyd> There are pathces for TX already?
[22:31:33] <syphilis> for at least some of it, apparently
[22:31:34] <syphilis> 124189-02 SunOS 5.10_x86: Trusted Solaris Attributes Patch
[22:31:37] <syphilis> has been out for a while
[22:31:59] <boyd> Even thought TX has only been out for, like, 4 days
[22:32:02] <boyd> though
[22:32:24] <quasi> boyd: yeah, a fair number of patches to U2 - has been out a month or more
[22:32:39] <syphilis> i don't know if TX is actually in the patch.  but it says "trusted solaris" so i feel "patches for TX" is a reasonable description of them :)
[22:32:40] <boyd> How odd.
[22:33:49] <quasi> syphilis: I've installed them without problems - although there's a couple of other patches I've had issues with recently
[22:36:33] <onbot> commit by ck153898:  6351954 zfs missing noxattr mount flag (fix keywords)
[22:36:34] <onbot> commit by Gerald Jelinek:  PSARC 2006/496 Improved Zones/RM Integration; PSARC 2006/598 Swap resource control; locked memory RM improvements; PSARC 2006/660 rcapadm zone option; 4754856 *prstat* prstat -atJTZ should count shared segments only once
[22:36:53] <quasi> hmm, on second though - no I haven't - this is a new tx patch
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[22:49:12] <alanc> the TX patches add the TX support to the existing Solaris 10 binaries - they were generate to integrate the TX hooks into S10U3, so are artifacts of the S10U3 delivery, not fixes to what just shipped
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[22:54:15] <boyd> alanc: Ah, that's what I was starting to think. Thanks
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[22:59:08] <Doc> so they have done feature patches for TX too?
[22:59:16] <Doc> i'm glad we have a rule that we dont do that...
[22:59:34] <richlowe> not only that, but so you don't do what the TX patches did.
[22:59:37] <richlowe> (break shit needlessly)
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[23:02:08] <quasi> Doc: there has been an awful lot of feature patches lately - not just for tx
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[23:03:22] <Doc> quasi: yes. this was sorta my point...
[23:04:07] <quasi> 122663-06 being one of the ones I've bumped into
[23:04:43] <stevel> 122663-06 sucked
[23:05:23] <quasi> 120051-04 was another although I'm not quite sure wheter it was a feature patch or just something to keep people on their toes ;)
[23:06:55] <quasi> 122663-06 was extra joyous not wanting to uninstall without force
[23:06:59] <Doc> 120051-04 doesnt look like a feature patch
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[23:08:43] <ShadowHntr> how do you register for sun update?
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[23:08:51] <ShadowHntr> i think a sys-unconfig killed my system profile
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[23:09:13] <quasi> ShadowHntr: there's a howto on sunsolve
[23:09:24] <ShadowHntr> i did it once
[23:09:28] <ShadowHntr> just don't remember how to now
[23:10:01] <waswas> hola
[23:10:08] <waswas> anyone know zfs internals well?
[23:10:12] <quasi> Doc: 6474678 lazyload all Trusted Extensions libraries - that sort of looks feature like to me
[23:10:37] <sommerfeld> that's more like "bugfix to permit incremental delivery"
[23:11:17] <sommerfeld> as 120051-03 looks like it contained the feature changes
[23:11:18] <quasi> but it broke all the tools it touched ;(
[23:11:39] <lasseoe> the famous user-tool patch
[23:11:59] <lasseoe> or was that -04 ?
[23:12:04] * lasseoe forgets
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[23:12:38] <waswas> anyone know if zfs checksums are stored per block or file?
[23:12:45] <jmcp> waswas: per-block
[23:12:46] <richlowe> per-block.
[23:12:47] <quasi> lasseoe: I'm pretty sure it was -04 ... at least it was in x86 land
[23:13:24] <waswas> hmph,  damn -- was hopping I could use them for CAS lookups..
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[23:15:28] <waswas> err wait,  does zfs allow two files to share a block?
[23:15:31] <lasseoe> quasi: ok, same on SPARC
[23:19:36] <jbk> waswas: i don't believe so (in the conventional sense), however zfs does have multiple block sizes, also, unchanged data between snapshots and clones can share a block (until it's modified)
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[23:31:48] <sommerfeld> waswas: zfs checksums are an integral part of the block pointer.
[23:32:15] <_william_> hi all
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